the music makes it
July 1, 2016 7:52 PM   Subscribe

 


For all the conplexity under the hood, imo it still needs a ton of tweaking. Leaving aside the issue of turret kills showing the turret maker instead of the turrets making the kills, and support actions not being captured enough, it needs a severe bias away from ultimate powered multi-kills. for every ultimate use that gets x kills I would pretty much always rather see a potg with fewer than x kills done without using an ultimate.
posted by juv3nal at 8:40 PM on July 1, 2016 [1 favorite]


For a second I thought you were gonna link to this (vaguely NSFW) legendary Torbjorn POTG.

Seriously though it's really interesting seeing what they pick. Sometimes it's flawless (earlier today I got a POTG for a Junkrat tire that took out 4 enemies in overtime with three meters left for us to push the payload, allowing us to swoop in for the win), and sometimes it's just Bastion of the Bastion getting a double kill somewhere. Supports get shafted consistently; my girlfriend plays Mercy and I've seen her get POTG a whopping once (for rezzing three people on the point, allowing a capture), despite plenty of deserving plays.

The best thing about POTG, though, is the various parodies and remixes.
posted by Itaxpica at 8:44 PM on July 1, 2016 [3 favorites]


I agree that POTG needs more work, but I'm just glad they fixed the basketball hoops.
posted by sparkletone at 8:52 PM on July 1, 2016 [1 favorite]






I've been playing this game more than any other in my queue. It's definitely something that satisfies an itch. Could easily be my GOTY. And Dishonored 2 hasn't even been released!? !
posted by Fizz at 9:13 PM on July 1, 2016


A list of scenarios Overwatch would consider 'Play of the Game'

That was beautiful, Mr. Pokelope. Clickhole with shades of McSweeneys. A glimpse of mastery.
posted by sparklemotion at 9:16 PM on July 1, 2016 [1 favorite]


my usual potg is always d.va blowing everyone on the objective the heck up but i am 100% proudest of the time i widowmaker'd 3 flawless headshots in a row, the last of which was a hanzo
posted by poffin boffin at 9:19 PM on July 1, 2016 [3 favorites]


i can't fucking wait for the turret nerf
posted by poffin boffin at 9:19 PM on July 1, 2016


Ugh. Bastion. Srsly.
posted by sparklemotion at 9:20 PM on July 1, 2016


Good to see Overwatch will continue the fine MOBA tradition of bad support players complaining about not being recognised for their efforts at sucking marginally less than the other support players in the game. I can't wait to see what interesting new spin we get for Overwatch ELO-hell.
posted by kithrater at 9:20 PM on July 1, 2016 [2 favorites]


really though the best part of potg is seeing where you just got sniped from and setting up your murderin hideout there in the next round
posted by poffin boffin at 9:22 PM on July 1, 2016 [6 favorites]


Most of my POTG are me, as Torbjörn, walking back to my turret from spawn, as it kills five people on the point. Maybe I'll use my ult as I'm walking, just to keep it alive until I get there. It's SO EXCITING, you guys!

(OW is the only game in years that's been able to replace TF2 as my go-to, gotta play every night game. It's really well done. Can't wait until the fix the potg algorithm.)
posted by gemmy at 9:23 PM on July 1, 2016 [2 favorites]


A random Overwatch note: I played a game with three of my friends yesterday, and oh my god when you're playing with people you actually know and can coordinate with it is an entirely different frigging game, wow.
posted by Itaxpica at 9:52 PM on July 1, 2016


I don't think any algorithm can do what people expect of it. It's a pretty neat idea though, and it's fun to see your friends in it.
posted by zompist at 9:53 PM on July 1, 2016 [1 favorite]


it is way worse playing with my friends because it's nonstop screaming and swearing and i average 9 deaths on group chat matches vs 3 when it's just me with 5 randos
posted by poffin boffin at 10:08 PM on July 1, 2016


OW is the only game in years that's been able to replace TF2 as my go-to

I'm wondering if TF2 has seen a surge of new players as a result of Overwatch's new found popularity. More people who are wanting to check out what came before?!? Can anyone who plays TF2 confirm this?
posted by Fizz at 10:25 PM on July 1, 2016


Good to see Overwatch will continue the fine MOBA tradition of bad support players complaining about not being recognised for their efforts at sucking marginally less than the other support players in the game. I can't wait to see what interesting new spin we get for Overwatch ELO-hell.

Aight dude, whatever. I'm literally typing this in-between games, and we just had a Lucio single-handedly turn the game in our favor; the play of the game was a Hanzo on the losing team sniping three people. That's a messed up system. The Lucio got a rightfully deserved Epic, but they also deserved play of the game for the winning push that they enabled.
posted by protocoach at 11:01 PM on July 1, 2016 [2 favorites]


update im mad about the update
posted by poffin boffin at 11:27 PM on July 1, 2016 [1 favorite]


update im mad about the update

I'm yet to check out competitive mode, and I kinda think I won't at all. It just kinda doesn't sound like fun.
posted by Itaxpica at 11:45 PM on July 1, 2016


People definitely do expect too much out of the play of the game algorithm although it performs pretty well for what it is. It does such a good job with what little it knows that people start overthinking what it actually does as if there was some deep analysis behind it and want it to perform better.

At its core its nothing but a score-per-minute detector with extra weighting for some actions. For example, environmental kills seem to count for a lot more than your bog-standard kills, as do kills with ultimate abilities.

This is exactly the reason why you tend to see PotGs where a Lucio does some damage in the middle of a group of players and then kicks someone off the map: he gets score from his healing aura, the fact that he does some damage while he's at it and then the environmental kill is the thing that really spikes his score per minute.

The reason Bastion gets featured so heavily is that a well-placed Bastion can really mow down a lot of people from full health all by his lonesome, resulting in a huge spike in his score per minute.

Could it be fixed? No, not really, but adding in a lot of weighting kludges can make it do its job a little better. Make Torbjörn turret damage be weighted depending on Torbjörn's proximity to them. Weight Mercy's actions more when she's on the objective and especially when on overtime. Weight kills that happen around low-health team mates a bit more. Weight healing from low health more. Try to prevent PotGs that end in a death of the person being highlighted (perhaps by giving a ton of negative score "in the past" from dying to get your damage per minute spikes down). Stuff like that. Pulling more data into your scoring should at least in theory result in a better indicator.

A huge problem is that a single "score" is just too much of an indicator: the effects of support actions just are much more far-reaching than second-to-second damage events. I healed our tank back up from 20 hp and because of that our payload kept moving. Is that more important than the triple kill our Genji did on the flank? Who knows, but the PotG algorithm will always think its the Genji that mattered since its window to the world is so small.

Ultimately the algorithm is what it is. People really want it to be a "clutch moment detector", but it can never be that. It especially will never do the things people seem to want: deep analysis on how a game is flowing and highlighting "turnarounds" or "good plays with character x" (always, ALWAYS without any idea on how a "good play" could be detected beyond asking the person in question).

Oh wow that's a lot of words about a silly videogame highlighting algorithm. Maybe I'll go play some Overwatch now.

edit: fixed incomprehensible sentences
posted by Soi-hah at 5:22 AM on July 2, 2016 [11 favorites]


Oh since we've tangentially mentioned support characters I might as well post this list of ~just Mercy things~ to the pro-tier people who are always carrying our ass:
  1. The healer doesn't come to you, you go to the healer (unless you are the primary tank, then we're buddies for life)
  2. If you are Hanzo or Widowmaker chilling out on your murder branch and want some healing, maybe consider that the healer needs to boost up to get to you so consider being close to an edge or somehow in LoS of the healer (also see point 1, above).
  3. The same goes for anybody ever on high ground: we kinda love to have alternate escape routes.
  4. If you are the "flanker" and the team just defended the payload (successfully, with you doing whatever it is you do when you overextend a ton and get killed), consider that you might not be the primary healing target (hint: its the tank, its always the tank)
  5. A dead healer will not heal. It will do you no good spamming "I need healing" when the Tracer on our backline just killed us the fifth time with you doing absolutely nothing about it.
  6. The damage boost is not a marriage contract: just because you are getting some blue love right now does not mean we're going to come with you on some suicide mission. It ALSO doesn't mean that you are in any way a primary healing target.
  7. If you have a self-heal (looking at you 76, Roadhog and Mei) we're always going to assume its up. If its not you've most likely been overextending again. Don't do that please.
  8. Generally, us staying alive is more important than you staying alive so yeah we're gonna book it early when you decide to engage four other people alone.
While its great that there are people with REAL SKILL actually playing the game, sometimes the healer actually needs to do things besides press Q the moment you die so maybe consider that the next time you play a flanking Genji while being completely useless at it.
posted by Soi-hah at 5:54 AM on July 2, 2016 [24 favorites]


Yeah, recently I've been playing Zenyatta quite a bit. I've got POTG for spamming shots through a door and killing 3 enemies, and also for popping Tranquility on my team's payload and moving it the last couple meters to the objective.

I recall reading somewhere that environmental kills count more because you're zapping someone's entire pool of hit points at once, much like a sniper headshot.
posted by Fleebnork at 5:58 AM on July 2, 2016


The POTG thing is brilliant marketing. Instant shareable video for your friends. I'm amazed it took this long for a game to deliver a feature like this competently. Both XBone and PS4 have had the ability to record and post video since launch, and of course PCs have been doing it for years, but it's always been so clumsy. Having it automated like this, even if not always "correct", is brilliant.

There's a similar thing for League of Legends, the Analyze or Feed pentakill channel. That's a third party service that records game replays and it's automatically uploading videos of pentakills, when someone wipes the entire enemy team of 5 players. e.g., here's Olaf punishing some bad manners.
posted by Nelson at 7:26 AM on July 2, 2016


I love my life as a flanking Roadhog, but part of that is accepting that I will never be PoTG. But basically what Soi-hah said. Play of the game is a weighted scoring system - it's always going to favour characters with area of effect ults or at least a way to pack a lot of action into a few seconds (like the totally accurate fire of Torbjorn's turret, or the huge rate of fire of Bastion's turret). The only solution is not to care very much about PotG.
posted by running order squabble fest at 7:46 AM on July 2, 2016 [1 favorite]


Having it automated like this, even if not always "correct", is brilliant.

Mario Kart 8 does this, giving us the Luigi Death Stare among other things.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 8:26 AM on July 2, 2016 [2 favorites]


I kinda like the Torbjorn as corpse POTG - it's like Overwatch is mocking the rest of the team. "Hey guys, pick it up. He's doing more than you, and he's dead."

I think of the POTG should be aiming for the most cinematic/funny/watchable moment, not necessarily the most "effective". Effectiveness and good playing are rewarded with the commendations from other players at the end of the match. Sorry Mercy, you're necessary and effective but what you do just isn't that exciting to watch most of the time.

One POTG from a game I was in had Reinhardt grabbing two people with a charge and suiciding right over a cliff with them. Sure, it would have been more effective if he aimed a little to the left, but it was hilarious, and just seemed so Reinhardt.
posted by mrgoat at 8:41 AM on July 2, 2016


As Mercy: if you're spamming "I need healing!" while standing juuuuust outside of line of sight on a roof, and not moving when I call it out in voice chat, I will spend the rest of the game mocking your pain.
posted by Archelaus at 9:18 AM on July 2, 2016 [3 favorites]


i can't fucking wait for the turret nerf

Did that come with this last update? I'm still kickin ass with Torbjorn so maybe not?
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 10:07 AM on July 2, 2016


I'm yet to check out competitive mode, and I kinda think I won't at all.

no, idk if it's because i started the competitive mode or if it's standard now for all matches but if you leave a game once it's started - and they're going by when the countdown starts afaik - you get your xp docked on your next game, mine was by 75%. reasons i have left games include: i lost the connection to the server; game would not let me change from character i was skirmishing as to character i wanted to play as; controller died and i panicked and mashed wrong buttons; i realized i had to pee; randos i was playing with were screaming slurs into the chat channel; and definitely because i just felt like quitting but whatever.

i mean obviously the levels actually mean nothing so it doesn't really matter but it's a shitty tiresome little thing to include as standard gameplay.
posted by poffin boffin at 10:10 AM on July 2, 2016


i just want my fucking loot boxes ok
posted by poffin boffin at 10:12 AM on July 2, 2016 [2 favorites]


Maybe don't play competitive if you're not willing to grin and bear it for however long it takes. I mean quick match isn't going anywhere.

Leaving competitive matches because you "just feel like it" is a super shitty thing to do since it basically forces a loss to everyone else. Yeah yeah "its just a game maaaaaaan" but still. There's always the option of not playing ranked games.
posted by Soi-hah at 11:18 AM on July 2, 2016 [1 favorite]


i'm not talking about the competition matches. i am talking about the regular quick play matches.
posted by poffin boffin at 11:24 AM on July 2, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh, there's a leaver penalty on quick match as well, I'll be damned. Seems like its been there for some time too. How about that.

I thought it was on competitive only since on quick match you have someone new joining in mid-match and a person leaving is not such a HUGE deal.
posted by Soi-hah at 11:32 AM on July 2, 2016


yeah, at first i thought it must be a bug or something? it only started happening after the update, and after i started the competition matches. and yeah, it seems silly in quick play since the skirmishing queue solves the problem pretty fast.

there is a warning for the rest of the players on the comp matches when someone leaves, so you too can leave without penalty, but it's worded strangely and i couldn't figure out if i had to leave precisely one minute after the time of the notice or if i had a minute's time in which to leave, and i ended up being the only one left in the match which i of course lost hilariously badly seconds later.
posted by poffin boffin at 11:41 AM on July 2, 2016


Did that come with this last update? I'm still kickin ass with Torbjorn so maybe not?

If you're on PC Torj isn't being nerfed. Only on consoles.

One great thing about Overwatch is Blizzard's commitment to balancing the platforms independently.
posted by Justinian at 12:59 PM on July 2, 2016


Overwatch is awesome. I've been putting in some decent hours in it and am in a couple of competitive leagues with work folks. It's not a perfect game (I would tweak the way a couple of the abilities work, and on the whole the maps are less than excellent imho), but it's the only game that has been able to supplant Dota as my favorite. It's so good.

I also disagree with the author of that Kotaku article; competitive mode is an excellent fit for Overwatch. I mean, of course it is--as far as I can tell, Overwatch is destined to be a major esport, this is not by accident, and Activision Blizzard's acquisition of MLG some time ago is not a mere coincidence. To assert that OW wasn't designed for comp is quite silly, really.
posted by kprincehouse at 1:19 PM on July 2, 2016


I really hope they put out an API for data access, though.
posted by kprincehouse at 1:21 PM on July 2, 2016


The leaver penalty won't kick in if you leave just one game. It takes several, and will apply as long as you have more than a certain number of leaves in the past 20 games. It also won't punish you for a server-side disconnect, leaving during the assemble phase, or leaving when the game is over but before the potg clip.
posted by kprincehouse at 1:33 PM on July 2, 2016 [2 favorites]


I've had fun with comp mode so far, but it does skyrocket the stress of playing Mercy. People not only know to focus Mercy but they chain ultimates in such a way as you have almost no choice but to res into one. A lot of no win scenarios.
posted by Drinky Die at 1:40 PM on July 2, 2016


Oh, and my two complaints about the POTG system:

1. It can bug out your kill cam when you watch highlights while in the que.
2. There is no built in way to save your highlights. I just can't believe they didn't include this.
posted by Drinky Die at 2:09 PM on July 2, 2016


leaving when the game is over but before the potg clip.

It is my understanding that you are safe to leave the game after you see VICTORY or DEFEAT
posted by Fleebnork at 2:24 PM on July 2, 2016


2. There is no built in way to save your highlights. I just can't believe they didn't include this.

Blizzard says they are working on this.
posted by Pendragon at 2:44 PM on July 2, 2016


leaving during the assemble phase

p sure it does because this is exactly where the majority of my game leaving happens. i mean i assume it's not supposed to happen but whatevs, it's happening. i have left in the actual middle of gameplay less than 10 times out of the ~250 games i've played, because i only leave in the actual middle of gameplay when i am about to join a group of 5 other people, and i know exactly how many times that has happened.
posted by poffin boffin at 3:00 PM on July 2, 2016




The thing that annoys me is being thrown into a match in which my team is 10 seconds or less from defeat several times in a row. I hit the quick play button... find match... DEFEAT. Well shit, okay I'll get 'em next time. But a bunch of people quit from the losing them, not enough players, finding new server... find match... 5 seconds to DEFEAT. Goddamit twice in a row? Repeat.

It's happened to me twice in a row a bunch of times and once it happened three times in a row. That made me want to ragequit.
posted by Justinian at 3:13 PM on July 2, 2016


I'm playing on a PS4, so maybe I just haven't noticed. It's all in where you put that turret, and then hit the triangle and kill after kill.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 3:20 PM on July 2, 2016


My typical Torbjorn POTG:

1. I'm running around trying to find health of scrap
2. Alert that turret is under attack
3. I pop my ultimate
4. Turret wipes out enemy rush
5. All while I'm staring at a wall

It's happened to me three times already. Last night I got a quad kill in the final seconds in a competitive match and landed POTG. Never mind all the Level 99 people who'd been busting their ass.

But I'll never not like playing the engineer.
posted by dw at 6:30 PM on July 2, 2016 [2 favorites]


I love my life as a flanking Roadhog, but part of that is accepting that I will never be PoTG. But basically what Soi-hah said. Play of the game is a weighted scoring system - it's always going to favour characters with area of effect ults or at least a way to pack a lot of action into a few seconds (like the totally accurate fire of Torbjorn's turret, or the huge rate of fire of Bastion's turret). The only solution is not to care very much about PotG.

I agree that certain characters seem favored for the POTG, but if Blizzard has the data this seems like a trivial fix if you just give straight penalties to the algorithm scores for characters that are easier to POTG with. Not saying Bastion/Lucio/whoever should never POTG, but I can't imagine it's impossible to balance so that all characters have an even chance to get one.
posted by john-a-dreams at 6:34 PM on July 2, 2016 [1 favorite]


While getting POTG is a rush, I think the cards upvoting feels way more satisfying. We have grown to expect ridiculous no-skill POTGs from Bastion, Thorbjorn and Junkrat. But when the players choose you, that feels like more.
posted by Windopaene at 8:25 PM on July 2, 2016 [1 favorite]


it makes me so mad when players don't bother voting if the only character that comes up from their team is a support character, HOW DARE THEY NOT VOTE FOR THE HEALER

mercys are so important you guys, i love them forever
posted by poffin boffin at 9:18 PM on July 2, 2016 [1 favorite]


Man, I don't like shooters and first-person makes me nauseous but I love the character design so much I'm tempted to buy the damn game. I mean, this is basically me.
posted by restless_nomad at 12:15 PM on July 3, 2016


mercys are so important you guys, i love them forever

Always know where Mercy is! Zarya and Mercy BFF.
posted by Drinky Die at 12:36 PM on July 3, 2016 [3 favorites]




WHY CAN'T I PLAY AS ANA YET I WANT TO FACESHOOT PPL IN THE SUPPORT BRAWL im upset
posted by poffin boffin at 11:05 AM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


I got a POTG as Mercy yesterday! It was a brawl on the point and I rezzed one guy, healed 3 others from "critical" to full, and switched to pistol for a quick elimination. It was an intense end to the round.

The Hanzo and Reaper on the other team were displeased, as expressed via their comments in the Match chat box.
posted by sparklemotion at 12:30 PM on July 12, 2016


if you like playing as a support character and have not yet tried the active weekly brawl of ONLY SUPPORT CHARACTERS i urge you to do so immediately because it is so gr8
posted by poffin boffin at 1:47 PM on July 12, 2016


Ana looks really neat! I hope they recorded special VO for any interactions she has with Pharah. I can't think of another FPS where you can play as an older woman off the top of my head.
posted by sparkletone at 2:53 PM on July 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yeah the age diversity is one of the things I like about the cast. Young punks, get off my lawn.
posted by Drinky Die at 3:05 PM on July 12, 2016




Just watching the kid play a quick game and there were three reapers. Then one more. Then all reapers.

The thought that in 5 other places around the globe someone was laughing at the Spontaneous Reaper Army which had silently arisen is basically why this game is great.
posted by fullerine at 3:34 AM on July 30, 2016


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