The Sun Is Always Shining In Modern Christian Pop
July 6, 2016 10:37 AM Subscribe
"Contemporary Christian pop music might be taking Psalm 100’s command to 'make a joyful noise unto the Lord' a little too far," writes Leah Libresco at 538. Libresco analyzed the lyrics from Billboard's year-end top 50 Christian songs for the last five years and compares them with traditional American hymns from the shaped-note tradition. Richard Beck at Experimental Theology notes that the psalms themselves contain much more lamentation than the hymnbooks used by contemporary U.S. protestants.
You all know my feelings on this. You're not making Christianity any better, you're just making rock 'n' roll worse!
Ultra happy evangelical Christianity grinds my gears in general, read your darn Bible, there's a whole book called "Lamentations." People are allowed (even encouraged!) to be pissed off at God. A religion that only has space for shiny happy people is empty of meaning or hope or comfort.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:45 AM on July 6, 2016 [43 favorites]
Ultra happy evangelical Christianity grinds my gears in general, read your darn Bible, there's a whole book called "Lamentations." People are allowed (even encouraged!) to be pissed off at God. A religion that only has space for shiny happy people is empty of meaning or hope or comfort.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:45 AM on July 6, 2016 [43 favorites]
I dunno. Speaking as a non-believer who, for various family reasons, finds himself at a church service now and then, I'd much rather hear a bad Jars of Clay cover band at a church, than to endure any version of The Old Rugged Cross.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:53 AM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 10:53 AM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
"traditional American hymns from the shape-note tradition" seems an odd metric. I've been to Methodist, Presbyterian, Episcopal, a few flavors of Baptist, and many ecumenical services, and have never once encountered shape-note singing in any of them.
posted by hippybear at 10:56 AM on July 6, 2016
posted by hippybear at 10:56 AM on July 6, 2016
Richard Beck at Experimental Theology notes that the psalms themselves contain much more lamentation than the hymnbooks used by contemporary U.S. protestants.
He left out the Episcopal hymnal. Wonder what the results would be.
But I also find that comparison a bit...misplaced. Under most circumstances, the purpose of a church service is largely to praise God and give him thanks in a group setting. The Psalms weren't originally written for the use of a community coming together to worship, so it's not shocking that their style is somewhat different than music written for that purpose.
Also, I don't know how it is in every Protestant church, but the Episcopalians have a reading from the Psalms in all important services, and Eucharists include confession of sin and formal repentance. So the hymns only represent one note, as it were, in the whole service.
But, yeah, relentlessly positive Evangelicals are deeply off-putting.
posted by praemunire at 11:00 AM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
He left out the Episcopal hymnal. Wonder what the results would be.
But I also find that comparison a bit...misplaced. Under most circumstances, the purpose of a church service is largely to praise God and give him thanks in a group setting. The Psalms weren't originally written for the use of a community coming together to worship, so it's not shocking that their style is somewhat different than music written for that purpose.
Also, I don't know how it is in every Protestant church, but the Episcopalians have a reading from the Psalms in all important services, and Eucharists include confession of sin and formal repentance. So the hymns only represent one note, as it were, in the whole service.
But, yeah, relentlessly positive Evangelicals are deeply off-putting.
posted by praemunire at 11:00 AM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think this might be why "O Come O Come Emmanuel" is my favorite Christmas hymn. It's really not starting from a happy place where all eschatological hope has been realized (which, in my opinion, is why so much music in evangelical Christianity is crappy these days; songs reflect almost predominantly what is desired to be true, rather than what really is). The perspective of the hymn is about being lonely in exile, with some hope for the future. It certainly reflects many Psalms more accurately.
While you would never find this in a contemporary translation, I think the accurate emotional import of many of the Psalms that fall under a "lament" category (there are something like 65 of them, which is closing in on half): "God, what the hell just happened? I'm seriously pissed, and I thought you had my back." Many of those lament psalms were community songs. I'd like to see a contemporary song in church that comes even close to this sentiment.
posted by SpacemanStix at 11:00 AM on July 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
While you would never find this in a contemporary translation, I think the accurate emotional import of many of the Psalms that fall under a "lament" category (there are something like 65 of them, which is closing in on half): "God, what the hell just happened? I'm seriously pissed, and I thought you had my back." Many of those lament psalms were community songs. I'd like to see a contemporary song in church that comes even close to this sentiment.
posted by SpacemanStix at 11:00 AM on July 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
If you were going primarily by "traditional American hymns from the shape-not tradition," American Protestantism is practically a death cult.
Farewell, vain world, I'm going home
My savior smiles and bids me come
And I don't care to stay here long
Sweet angels beckon me away
To sing God's praise in endless day
And I don't care to stay here long
Right up yonder, Christians
Away, up yonder
Oh, yes my Lord!
For I don't care to stay here long
And that's one of the happy ones. That's not even "Idumea."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:05 AM on July 6, 2016 [9 favorites]
Farewell, vain world, I'm going home
My savior smiles and bids me come
And I don't care to stay here long
Sweet angels beckon me away
To sing God's praise in endless day
And I don't care to stay here long
Right up yonder, Christians
Away, up yonder
Oh, yes my Lord!
For I don't care to stay here long
And that's one of the happy ones. That's not even "Idumea."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:05 AM on July 6, 2016 [9 favorites]
I don't know how Christian pop fans have the energy. I absorb a fair bit of this stuff whenever I'm in the car with my nieces and I could swear that at least 7 out of every 10 songs implores you to raise your hands. I'd get tired, personally.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:06 AM on July 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:06 AM on July 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
I blame the Gaithers. They replaced hymns that had some grit to them with trance-inducing praise choruses devoid of all meaning or conflict.
Christian pop has always existed at the sufferance of suspicious church cultures keeping an eye out for "devil music" sneaking in, so grit in that genre has always been discouraged.
The best modern religious song is Dear God. People who never get mad at God aren't taking him seriously.
posted by emjaybee at 11:14 AM on July 6, 2016 [9 favorites]
Christian pop has always existed at the sufferance of suspicious church cultures keeping an eye out for "devil music" sneaking in, so grit in that genre has always been discouraged.
The best modern religious song is Dear God. People who never get mad at God aren't taking him seriously.
posted by emjaybee at 11:14 AM on July 6, 2016 [9 favorites]
So, could someone explain the haircuts, then?
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:21 AM on July 6, 2016
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:21 AM on July 6, 2016
I grew up with Why Me, Lord?, but sung on a record by a nine-or-ten-year-old girl named Denise. It may be peak Evangelical self-loathing. "What did I ever do that was worth love from you, or the kindness you've shown?"
It was one of my favourite records as a kid.
posted by clawsoon at 11:22 AM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
It was one of my favourite records as a kid.
posted by clawsoon at 11:22 AM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, as much as I hate to admit it, I'm with Crotchety Old Suspenders Wearing Man.
Now get off mylawn church.
posted by Naberius at 11:32 AM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
Now get off my
posted by Naberius at 11:32 AM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
Since Christian Pop/etc. music aspires to build a 1:1 mapping of secular music tropes, surely there is a Christian version of the Postal Service. I'm pretty sure there's a Christian version of Burzum.
Overall, though, surely all of this is Creed's fault.
posted by rhizome at 11:56 AM on July 6, 2016
Overall, though, surely all of this is Creed's fault.
posted by rhizome at 11:56 AM on July 6, 2016
I didn't grow up evangelical but have a few friends who did, and the world of Christian ersatz popular culture fascinates me. I really enjoyed Daniel Radosh's Rapture Ready!: Adventures in the Parallel Universe of Christian Pop Culture, which has a very interesting examination of this sort of Christian pop music (plus Christian romance novels, Christian theme parks, and Christian movies). I seem to recall quite a bit of discussion of the "Jesus is my boyfriend" attitude referenced in the article.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:00 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:00 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also, I don't know how it is in every Protestant church, but the Episcopalians have a reading from the Psalms in all important services, and Eucharists include confession of sin and formal repentance. So the hymns only represent one note, as it were, in the whole service.
Yeah, as a Presbyterian, I don't feel like The (now old*) Presbyterian Hymnal is meant to be numerically representative. There are a lot of Christmas and Easter hymns, but each of those only last 2 Sundays. The Advent and Lent sections in the hymnal are probably equivalent in number of hymns to Christmas and Easter, but those seasons last a lot longer and are a lot more lament-filled. The Psalms have a whole section in the middle of the hymnal, and one of those is read or sung every Sunday in most liturgical churches. We also make good use of our lamentations, using them not just when liturgically appropriate but also when local or world events require them.
I don't think mainline churches, or at least mainline liturgical churches, have been infected with this nearly as badly as those churches that have embraced "praise and worship" or "contemporary worship". Those formats really don't have any room for anything other than, well, praise and worship.
*The Presbyterian Church USA actually has a new hymnal, published a couple of years ago, that replaced The Presbyterian Hymnal. All data available here if anyone wants to do the analysis of all 853 hymns (which include service music and psalms).
posted by hydropsyche at 12:03 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, as a Presbyterian, I don't feel like The (now old*) Presbyterian Hymnal is meant to be numerically representative. There are a lot of Christmas and Easter hymns, but each of those only last 2 Sundays. The Advent and Lent sections in the hymnal are probably equivalent in number of hymns to Christmas and Easter, but those seasons last a lot longer and are a lot more lament-filled. The Psalms have a whole section in the middle of the hymnal, and one of those is read or sung every Sunday in most liturgical churches. We also make good use of our lamentations, using them not just when liturgically appropriate but also when local or world events require them.
I don't think mainline churches, or at least mainline liturgical churches, have been infected with this nearly as badly as those churches that have embraced "praise and worship" or "contemporary worship". Those formats really don't have any room for anything other than, well, praise and worship.
*The Presbyterian Church USA actually has a new hymnal, published a couple of years ago, that replaced The Presbyterian Hymnal. All data available here if anyone wants to do the analysis of all 853 hymns (which include service music and psalms).
posted by hydropsyche at 12:03 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
Interesting article/comparison; thanks for posting. My own nomination for most awesomely-depressing old-school-hymn is "Dust to Dust, the Mortal Dies," which was a regular feature of worship services in the conservative Reformed church I grew up in. My family used to joke about singing its lyrics to the tune of "Joy to the World." Here's a sample:
To their lands they give their name
In the hope of lasting fame,
But man’s honor quickly flies,
Like the lowly beast he dies.
Though such folly mark their way,
Men approve of what they say;
Death their shepherd, they the sheep,
He within his fold will keep.
Though in life he wealth attained,
Though the praise of men he gained,
He shall join those gone before,
Where the light shall shine no more.
Crowned with honor though he be,
Highly gifted, strong and free,
If he be not truly wise,
Man is like the beast that dies.
When I picture my sister and I, in our grade school years, belting this out enthusiastically on Sunday mornings... man. Not sure what to make of that. It's from the blue Psalter Hymnal pictured/described here. Anybody else grow up with that? It's a veritable goldmine of grimdark.
(I make fun of it, but partly because I love. There's a healthy balance between everything-is-terrible and everything-is-the-best that I think is worth aiming for in a religious experience; YMMV.)
posted by Byzantine at 12:07 PM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
To their lands they give their name
In the hope of lasting fame,
But man’s honor quickly flies,
Like the lowly beast he dies.
Though such folly mark their way,
Men approve of what they say;
Death their shepherd, they the sheep,
He within his fold will keep.
Though in life he wealth attained,
Though the praise of men he gained,
He shall join those gone before,
Where the light shall shine no more.
Crowned with honor though he be,
Highly gifted, strong and free,
If he be not truly wise,
Man is like the beast that dies.
When I picture my sister and I, in our grade school years, belting this out enthusiastically on Sunday mornings... man. Not sure what to make of that. It's from the blue Psalter Hymnal pictured/described here. Anybody else grow up with that? It's a veritable goldmine of grimdark.
(I make fun of it, but partly because I love. There's a healthy balance between everything-is-terrible and everything-is-the-best that I think is worth aiming for in a religious experience; YMMV.)
posted by Byzantine at 12:07 PM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
They should examine Christian Metal next.
posted by Ashwagandha at 12:09 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Ashwagandha at 12:09 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's all denial: as their economic prospects turn to shit right in front of their faces and their whole community is out there obsessively buying military-grade weapons, they couldn't be happier.
Right.
posted by jamjam at 12:12 PM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
Right.
posted by jamjam at 12:12 PM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
He left out the Episcopal hymnal.
The 1982 Episcopal Hymnal is the best hymnal in Christendom, thanks in significant part to the work of Ralph Vaughan Williams on its predecessor The English Hymnal. Just sayin'.
It contains several hymns from the shape note tradition, including arrangements that use their distinctive harmonization. It does not contain "The Old Rugged Cross."
posted by straight at 12:18 PM on July 6, 2016 [7 favorites]
The 1982 Episcopal Hymnal is the best hymnal in Christendom, thanks in significant part to the work of Ralph Vaughan Williams on its predecessor The English Hymnal. Just sayin'.
It contains several hymns from the shape note tradition, including arrangements that use their distinctive harmonization. It does not contain "The Old Rugged Cross."
posted by straight at 12:18 PM on July 6, 2016 [7 favorites]
Also, I don't know how it is in every Protestant church, but the Episcopalians have a reading from the Psalms in all important services, and Eucharists include confession of sin and formal repentance. So the hymns only represent one note, as it were, in the whole service.
It depends on the tradition and if they follow a lectionary (i.e. Revised Common Lectionary) and how "liturgical" they claim to be. In Lutheran liturgy, we read a psalm each worship service (my church doesn't for various reasons but we could). Our hymnal is full of old hymns, non-Jesus-is-my-boyfriend references, and we confess our sins every worship service. However, our "contemporary worship" service does use contemporary Christian pop music which is, well, just Jesus-is-my-boyfriend. It's masked as "praise" but it doesn't leave space for the doubt, darkness, sadness, etc. that happens in life. But many folks don't actually listen to the lyrics. They respond to the beat and the tune so they put their arms in the air cuz they just don't care.
posted by Stynxno at 12:20 PM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
It depends on the tradition and if they follow a lectionary (i.e. Revised Common Lectionary) and how "liturgical" they claim to be. In Lutheran liturgy, we read a psalm each worship service (my church doesn't for various reasons but we could). Our hymnal is full of old hymns, non-Jesus-is-my-boyfriend references, and we confess our sins every worship service. However, our "contemporary worship" service does use contemporary Christian pop music which is, well, just Jesus-is-my-boyfriend. It's masked as "praise" but it doesn't leave space for the doubt, darkness, sadness, etc. that happens in life. But many folks don't actually listen to the lyrics. They respond to the beat and the tune so they put their arms in the air cuz they just don't care.
posted by Stynxno at 12:20 PM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
Is this not the playing out of Moralistic Therapeutic Deism in the realm of art? see here for the criteria of this new strain of religion.
posted by resurrexit at 12:32 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by resurrexit at 12:32 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
I really hated the old hymns when I was growing up Baptist, but, with the church left far behind, I miss them these days. They're also good for springing on unsuspecting, never-religious people at appropriate moments. I assist my partner with her home hemo dialysis sessions. One day, something went wrong, and quite a bit of blood poured out of the machine and turned the back room into something approximating a crime scene. After the momentary panic and clamping everything, I couldn't help but sing:
There is a fountain filled with blood drawn from Emmanuel’s veins;
And sinners plunged beneath that flood lose all their guilty stains.
Which made the whole minor accident with the machine worthwhile just for the confused (and mildly horrified) response.
posted by honestcoyote at 12:33 PM on July 6, 2016 [26 favorites]
There is a fountain filled with blood drawn from Emmanuel’s veins;
And sinners plunged beneath that flood lose all their guilty stains.
Which made the whole minor accident with the machine worthwhile just for the confused (and mildly horrified) response.
posted by honestcoyote at 12:33 PM on July 6, 2016 [26 favorites]
It always freaks me out to drive away from urban areas to where the lower FM dial becomes Christian radio, not NPR and college stations.
posted by thelonius at 12:34 PM on July 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 12:34 PM on July 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
I blame the Gaithers. They replaced hymns that had some grit to them with trance-inducing praise choruses devoid of all meaning or conflict.
Oh, man. That hits close to home, being in Indiana and having married into a Church of God family and my wife having graduated from Anderson University. That's like an E-ticket into Gaitherland. But, yeah, that whole Gaither empire certainly has its prints all over contemporary Christian music, for sure.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:34 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh, man. That hits close to home, being in Indiana and having married into a Church of God family and my wife having graduated from Anderson University. That's like an E-ticket into Gaitherland. But, yeah, that whole Gaither empire certainly has its prints all over contemporary Christian music, for sure.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:34 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
And this thread gives me the excuse to share this one odd relic of the shiny space age. Hymn #20, "God of Earth and Outer Space" from the 1975 Baptist Hymnal. We'd sing it in church very occasionally, usually as a nod from the pastor to me and my obsessions. Only hymn in the book to reference astronauts and rockets.
If CC music needs a new direction, they really couldn't go wrong with songs about space. Something about how God can be found everywhere, even in the icy floes of Europa or the dry valleys of Mars.
posted by honestcoyote at 12:41 PM on July 6, 2016 [8 favorites]
If CC music needs a new direction, they really couldn't go wrong with songs about space. Something about how God can be found everywhere, even in the icy floes of Europa or the dry valleys of Mars.
posted by honestcoyote at 12:41 PM on July 6, 2016 [8 favorites]
The 1982 Episcopal Hymnal is the best hymnal in Christendom, thanks in significant part to the work of Ralph Vaughan Williams on its predecessor The English Hymnal. Just sayin'.
Yeah, only no one can sing his bits! Listening to a congregation struggle with the rhythm and the unexpected high note ("Thou, in the DARK-ness drear, their one true Light") of "For All The Saints" is always a little funny, though it's a great piece for professionals.
posted by praemunire at 1:04 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, only no one can sing his bits! Listening to a congregation struggle with the rhythm and the unexpected high note ("Thou, in the DARK-ness drear, their one true Light") of "For All The Saints" is always a little funny, though it's a great piece for professionals.
posted by praemunire at 1:04 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm a Charles Wesley girl myself if we're after Protestant hymns with a strong theology that are musically enjoyable.
lower FM dial becomes Christian radio, not NPR and college stations.
There's an app for that. Also a paper map for that, although you can only find it intermittently on the NPR shop.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:04 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
lower FM dial becomes Christian radio, not NPR and college stations.
There's an app for that. Also a paper map for that, although you can only find it intermittently on the NPR shop.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:04 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Bros. Wesley are good, but for my money nobody beats Isaac Watts. Also: I thought all hymnals used shape notes? TIL.
posted by orrnyereg at 1:18 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by orrnyereg at 1:18 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
honestcoyote: After the momentary panic and clamping everything, I couldn't help but sing:
Oh, the blood, all the blood.
The blood that Jesus shed for me / Way back on Calvary / The blood that gives me strength / From day to day / It will never lose its power
There is power, power / Wonder-working power / In the blood (in the blood) / Of the Lamb (of the Lamb)
Have you been to Jesus for the cleansing power? / Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?
They are covered by the blood / They are covered by the blood
And we've got one for the kids!
What can wash away my sins? / Nothing but the blood of Jesus
If you walked in on all that blood with no previous knowledge, you'd think that you'd discovered some kind of twisted vampire cult.
posted by clawsoon at 1:19 PM on July 6, 2016 [8 favorites]
Oh, the blood, all the blood.
The blood that Jesus shed for me / Way back on Calvary / The blood that gives me strength / From day to day / It will never lose its power
There is power, power / Wonder-working power / In the blood (in the blood) / Of the Lamb (of the Lamb)
Have you been to Jesus for the cleansing power? / Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?
They are covered by the blood / They are covered by the blood
And we've got one for the kids!
What can wash away my sins? / Nothing but the blood of Jesus
If you walked in on all that blood with no previous knowledge, you'd think that you'd discovered some kind of twisted vampire cult.
posted by clawsoon at 1:19 PM on July 6, 2016 [8 favorites]
Okay, yeah, some of the old hymns are dour and creepy. But surely there is a middle ground between "The Old Rugged Cross" and the happy-colored, Thomas-Kinkaide, Precious-Moments, "Everything Is Peachy" kind of stuff on offer today. That's all.
(Relentlessly happy creeps me out in any context.)
I think this might be why "O Come O Come Emmanuel" is my favorite Christmas hymn.
Heh; one of my favorite Christmas carols was the Coventry Carol, which is about the slaughter of the innocents - "Hey, we're gonna sing about how Herod killed a bunch of innocent other kids! Merry Christmas!" I admit that I have not examined myself too closely as to why this might be so.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:21 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
(Relentlessly happy creeps me out in any context.)
I think this might be why "O Come O Come Emmanuel" is my favorite Christmas hymn.
Heh; one of my favorite Christmas carols was the Coventry Carol, which is about the slaughter of the innocents - "Hey, we're gonna sing about how Herod killed a bunch of innocent other kids! Merry Christmas!" I admit that I have not examined myself too closely as to why this might be so.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:21 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is part of a larger long-standing debate in American evangelical protestant Christianity about "performance worship," a trend which really kicked into gear in the late 90s/early 2000s.
Dramatic lighting! Guitars and big drums! Music that shamelessly borrows from U2 and Coldplay! Two kinds of songs: the upbeat "Praise Jesus" song, and the slow, passionate "I Love Jesus" ballad. Check out the hip graphic design and fonts in our PowerPoints! Enjoy the pastor as he (always he) channels Tony Robbins! Buy our worship team's album at our coffee bar after the service!
This old video from several years back nails it. It's all about being "contemporary."
Churches continue to adopt this style despite that it is causing blowback. Some church attendees feel they can no longer relate- that church is not meant to be a rock concert with a motivational speaker.
The "happy song" debate is an important piece of this, but it's a definitely part of a larger fundamental schism that is taking place.
posted by Old Man McKay at 1:38 PM on July 6, 2016 [11 favorites]
Dramatic lighting! Guitars and big drums! Music that shamelessly borrows from U2 and Coldplay! Two kinds of songs: the upbeat "Praise Jesus" song, and the slow, passionate "I Love Jesus" ballad. Check out the hip graphic design and fonts in our PowerPoints! Enjoy the pastor as he (always he) channels Tony Robbins! Buy our worship team's album at our coffee bar after the service!
This old video from several years back nails it. It's all about being "contemporary."
Churches continue to adopt this style despite that it is causing blowback. Some church attendees feel they can no longer relate- that church is not meant to be a rock concert with a motivational speaker.
The "happy song" debate is an important piece of this, but it's a definitely part of a larger fundamental schism that is taking place.
posted by Old Man McKay at 1:38 PM on July 6, 2016 [11 favorites]
This goes with a trope I think is weird in the new strain of Pureflix movies. They often have a deus ex machina character who is clearly a divine agent, or some other kind of miracle. For example, in God's Not Dead, an elderly woman with alzheimer's disease suddenly becomes lucid to deliver a speech about bad people living good lives so Satan can keep their souls. This sends a weird message that good Christians, or even just normal people, can expect concrete evidence of the divine if they watch for it. And in Last Ounce of Courage, a cowboy angel with a magic radio helps our Biker-Pharmacist-Mayor get out of jail (he was incarcerated for bothering the ACLU, IIRC).
It'd be nice to see a film about Christians finding strength in their faith to overcome their problems themselves, or use that strength to be a positive force in their community, rather than Christians getting a supernatural boost whenever things get hard. Whether or not you're a believer in God, you have to agree miracles of this scale are rare. And it sends the message that those who don't get divine intervention aren't good enough believers, which is kind of toxic in a blame-the-victim way.
posted by mccarty.tim at 1:54 PM on July 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
It'd be nice to see a film about Christians finding strength in their faith to overcome their problems themselves, or use that strength to be a positive force in their community, rather than Christians getting a supernatural boost whenever things get hard. Whether or not you're a believer in God, you have to agree miracles of this scale are rare. And it sends the message that those who don't get divine intervention aren't good enough believers, which is kind of toxic in a blame-the-victim way.
posted by mccarty.tim at 1:54 PM on July 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
Since Christian Pop/etc. music aspires to build a 1:1 mapping of secular music tropes, surely there is a Christian version of the Postal Service
Wow, people forgot about Owl City (of Fireflies fame) so quickly it's like they never existed.
posted by kersplunk at 2:12 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wow, people forgot about Owl City (of Fireflies fame) so quickly it's like they never existed.
posted by kersplunk at 2:12 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
I really hated the old hymns when I was growing up Baptist
Those are mostly the relatively new hymns from the 19th - early 20th centuries. The classic hymns are mostly from the 16th-18th centuries: Luther, Wesley, Watts, etc. St. Francis is starting to get old (13th century), but I don't think it counts as an old hymn unless it's something more than a thousand years old like "Be Thou My Vision," St. Patrick's Breastplate, something by Fortunatus or the Venerable Bede, or hymns from the Latin liturgy itself (Gloria, Sanctus, Te Deum, etc.)
posted by straight at 2:15 PM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
Those are mostly the relatively new hymns from the 19th - early 20th centuries. The classic hymns are mostly from the 16th-18th centuries: Luther, Wesley, Watts, etc. St. Francis is starting to get old (13th century), but I don't think it counts as an old hymn unless it's something more than a thousand years old like "Be Thou My Vision," St. Patrick's Breastplate, something by Fortunatus or the Venerable Bede, or hymns from the Latin liturgy itself (Gloria, Sanctus, Te Deum, etc.)
posted by straight at 2:15 PM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm willing to go along with my wife's Christianity to the extent of having my children raised Christian and attending church (PCUSA) with her many Sundays because we are aesthetically and liturgically compatible. There has to be an organ, traditional-style hymns, a congregation that actually sings, and a sermon that actually deals with the challenging stuff (and the sermon should be actually Christian, if we want a UU sermon we'll go to that church). If she wanted to raise the kids in a church with a praise band, all bets would be off.
posted by Alluring Mouthbreather at 2:30 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Alluring Mouthbreather at 2:30 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
I am not a Christian, nor is Christian pop my thing, but I really wish 538 would stick to sports and politics. Their broader-interest stuff often feels "sciency" in the way that Fox News is "truthy," and this article is kinda case in point. It's been going on for a while and, to me, really undermines their brand. Just because you used numbers doesn't mean you're doing science or saying anything meaningful.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 2:37 PM on July 6, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 2:37 PM on July 6, 2016 [10 favorites]
Yeah, only no one can sing [Vaughan Williams's hymn tunes] Listening to a congregation struggle with the rhythm and the unexpected high note ("Thou, in the DARK-ness drear, their one true Light") of "For All The Saints" is always a little funny, though it's a great piece for professionals.
I've been fortunate enough to be in several congregations that could handle "For All The Saints," DOWN AMPNEY and KING'S WESTON just fine, but it's really as an arranger and editor that we owe Vaughan Williams the greatest debt. He gave us or helped popularize with wonderful arrangements KINGSFOLD, FOREST GREEN, HYFRYDOL, "All Creatures of our God and King," and lots of other great hymn tunes. I think he was the last composer of that stature to make such a significant contribution to western church music.
sorry I don't know why the convention is to print names of hymn tunes in ALL CAPS
posted by straight at 3:28 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
I've been fortunate enough to be in several congregations that could handle "For All The Saints," DOWN AMPNEY and KING'S WESTON just fine, but it's really as an arranger and editor that we owe Vaughan Williams the greatest debt. He gave us or helped popularize with wonderful arrangements KINGSFOLD, FOREST GREEN, HYFRYDOL, "All Creatures of our God and King," and lots of other great hymn tunes. I think he was the last composer of that stature to make such a significant contribution to western church music.
sorry I don't know why the convention is to print names of hymn tunes in ALL CAPS
posted by straight at 3:28 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
I think the accurate emotional import of many of the Psalms that fall under a "lament" category (there are something like 65 of them, which is closing in on half): "God, what the hell just happened? I'm seriously pissed, and I thought you had my back."
There's also the whole book of Job.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:37 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
There's also the whole book of Job.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:37 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
Terror as praise, or, the geologists' hymn: The Earthquake, written with the New Madrid earthquake in mind.
I heard the Boston Camerata sing it in a big masonry-dome hall in downtown Seattle, and one of the singers caught my eye and smiled on "Dwelling houses crack for joy", and I thought I felt the foundations shift. I can't listen to it without feeling that again. I'm an atheist.
I heard the Boston Camerata sing it in a big masonry-dome hall in downtown Seattle, and one of the singers caught my eye and smiled on "Dwelling houses crack for joy", and I thought I felt the foundations shift. I can't listen to it without feeling that again. I'm an atheist.
4.posted by clew at 3:41 PM on July 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
While the judgment is advancing,
Satan’s kingdom to destroy,
Fields and forests fall to dancing,
Dwelling houses crack for joy;
Rivers heave and swell like Jordan,
Water fowls ascend the air;
Soon this earth shall loose her burden,
All creation does declare.
I know nothing of Christian Pop besides the nanosecond it takes me to pass one on the radio while searching for an NPR station. But I do know Sacred Harp songs, because they are unearthly and grim and wonderful. Here's my favorite, sung unskillfully, as Sacred Harp songs ought to be sung.
posted by acrasis at 3:53 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by acrasis at 3:53 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
As a Sacred Harp singer, I cringe a bit at the "sung unskillfully" part. As one Sacred Harp researcher (Warren Steel) put it, Sacred Harp music has different goals.
posted by willF at 4:09 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by willF at 4:09 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
They should examine Christian Metal next.
So Christian Death Metal is really a thing that actually exists. I would never have thought such a thing was even possible, yet there it is!
And I thought Stryper was sinfully raucous!
posted by Trinity-Gehenna at 5:37 PM on July 6, 2016
So Christian Death Metal is really a thing that actually exists. I would never have thought such a thing was even possible, yet there it is!
And I thought Stryper was sinfully raucous!
posted by Trinity-Gehenna at 5:37 PM on July 6, 2016
I think the accurate emotional import of many of the Psalms that fall under a "lament" category (there are something like 65 of them, which is closing in on half): "God, what the hell just happened? I'm seriously pissed, and I thought you had my back."
There's also the whole book of Job.
Not to mention the book of Lamentations!
posted by Trinity-Gehenna at 5:44 PM on July 6, 2016
There's also the whole book of Job.
Not to mention the book of Lamentations!
posted by Trinity-Gehenna at 5:44 PM on July 6, 2016
I absorb a fair bit of this stuff whenever I'm in the car with my nieces and I could swear that at least 7 out of every 10 songs implores you to raise your hands.
My only exposure to Christian pop music is in some of the thrift stores I frequent. What I've noticed on more than one occasion is that the only way I can tell that a song is Christian, not secular, pop is because it apostrophizes Jesus, not a hetero love interest. In fact, I think you could turn any song into a contemporary Christian pop song just by substituting "Jesus" at the appropriate place.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:05 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
My only exposure to Christian pop music is in some of the thrift stores I frequent. What I've noticed on more than one occasion is that the only way I can tell that a song is Christian, not secular, pop is because it apostrophizes Jesus, not a hetero love interest. In fact, I think you could turn any song into a contemporary Christian pop song just by substituting "Jesus" at the appropriate place.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:05 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trinity-Gehenna: So Christian Death Metal is really a thing that actually exists. I would never have thought such a thing was even possible, yet there it is!
Stare at a dead guy hanging from a plank with nails through his hands and blood dripping from his head for long enough, and Christian Death Metal starts to seem inevitable.
posted by clawsoon at 6:06 PM on July 6, 2016 [8 favorites]
Stare at a dead guy hanging from a plank with nails through his hands and blood dripping from his head for long enough, and Christian Death Metal starts to seem inevitable.
posted by clawsoon at 6:06 PM on July 6, 2016 [8 favorites]
octobersurprise: What I've noticed on more than one occasion is that the only way I can tell that a song is Christian, not secular, pop is because it apostrophizes Jesus, not a hetero love interest. In fact, I think you could turn any song into a contemporary Christian pop song just by substituting "Jesus" at the appropriate place.
South Park did it. Look for the Christian Rock Hard episode.
posted by clawsoon at 6:11 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
South Park did it. Look for the Christian Rock Hard episode.
posted by clawsoon at 6:11 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
While my spiritual journey involves silence, I work at a Christian centre and cannot avoid listening to Contemporary Christian Music every day. I find it bland, unquestioning and incredibly passive. I understand the role of music in services, to set the mind on a different level, but this just doesn't work for me.
I find there's more spirituality in Stoned Love than any CCM I've heard.
posted by quarsan at 10:10 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
I find there's more spirituality in Stoned Love than any CCM I've heard.
posted by quarsan at 10:10 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
I had a brief flirtation with Christian rock in high school. Partly due to the substitution factor mentioned above. If you liked one secular band there was a Christian equivalent. And the Christians were still into ska way after everyone else forgot it again, so I got to enjoy that a little while longer. As an earnest religious kid it seemed like a no brainer.
A year later I was an indie kid with a license driving around listening to Belle & Sebastian and Mercury Rev. So the Christian music thing didn't last. But I look back on a lot of that stuff fondly. Even occasionally embarking on extended 'Fragments of Lyrics' Google searching to track down old songs I vaguely remember. A lot of it wasn't amazing, but I'm glad it was there for me at the time.
posted by downtohisturtles at 10:27 PM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
A year later I was an indie kid with a license driving around listening to Belle & Sebastian and Mercury Rev. So the Christian music thing didn't last. But I look back on a lot of that stuff fondly. Even occasionally embarking on extended 'Fragments of Lyrics' Google searching to track down old songs I vaguely remember. A lot of it wasn't amazing, but I'm glad it was there for me at the time.
posted by downtohisturtles at 10:27 PM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
Rahsaan Roland Kirk - Old Rugged Cross
posted by cosmologinaut at 12:16 AM on July 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by cosmologinaut at 12:16 AM on July 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
...practically a death cult:
Farewell, vain world, I'm going home
Yes, but the tune to that one's so damn cheerful! (a favorite rendering: track no. 9 here, from the 2011 all-Ireland sacred harp convention, all of which is downloadable & good listening if you like this sort of thing)
The 1982 Episcopal Hymnal is the best hymnal in Christendom, thanks in significant part to the work of Ralph Vaughan Williams on its predecessor The English Hymnal. Just sayin'.
QFT. /former episcopal choirgirl
Terror as praise, or, the geologists' hymn: The Earthquake, written with the New Madrid earthquake in mind.
OK, this is a) amazing, and b) has striking echoes of the 99th surah of the Qur'an, Surah az-Zalzalah (The Earthquake)--not entirely surprising, since there's a lot of Judeo-Christian-Islamic overlap when it comes to earthquake theology, but that's a topic for another day. Anyway, thank you for introducing me to this hymn!
posted by karayel at 12:52 AM on July 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Farewell, vain world, I'm going home
Yes, but the tune to that one's so damn cheerful! (a favorite rendering: track no. 9 here, from the 2011 all-Ireland sacred harp convention, all of which is downloadable & good listening if you like this sort of thing)
The 1982 Episcopal Hymnal is the best hymnal in Christendom, thanks in significant part to the work of Ralph Vaughan Williams on its predecessor The English Hymnal. Just sayin'.
QFT. /former episcopal choirgirl
Terror as praise, or, the geologists' hymn: The Earthquake, written with the New Madrid earthquake in mind.
OK, this is a) amazing, and b) has striking echoes of the 99th surah of the Qur'an, Surah az-Zalzalah (The Earthquake)--not entirely surprising, since there's a lot of Judeo-Christian-Islamic overlap when it comes to earthquake theology, but that's a topic for another day. Anyway, thank you for introducing me to this hymn!
posted by karayel at 12:52 AM on July 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
Christian Death Metal starts to seem inevitable.
It makes sense to me actually but I grew up Catholic so maybe that has something to do with it. My childhood memories of Catholicism at times makes it seem like a gory death cult. My grandmother has been talking to me about death since I was able to use language (I'm middle aged now and it still hasn't stopped) and I doubt I'm alone in that. Protestants don't have as many gory depictions and seem less preoccupied by death so maybe they just like to ROCK!
Christian Metal has the added bonus of being the only kind of contemporary Christian music my Evangelical Father-in-law would turn off. Mostly because he would give up trying to understand the lyrics and make sense of the rhythms.
posted by Ashwagandha at 7:20 AM on July 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
It makes sense to me actually but I grew up Catholic so maybe that has something to do with it. My childhood memories of Catholicism at times makes it seem like a gory death cult. My grandmother has been talking to me about death since I was able to use language (I'm middle aged now and it still hasn't stopped) and I doubt I'm alone in that. Protestants don't have as many gory depictions and seem less preoccupied by death so maybe they just like to ROCK!
Christian Metal has the added bonus of being the only kind of contemporary Christian music my Evangelical Father-in-law would turn off. Mostly because he would give up trying to understand the lyrics and make sense of the rhythms.
posted by Ashwagandha at 7:20 AM on July 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
There's something marvelous about hearing the shape-note singers' babel of nonsense syllables resolve into clear English words when they finish the introductory solfege and begin the first verse. I doubt it is intended as a reference to the story of Pentecost, but it might as well be.
posted by straight at 9:10 AM on July 7, 2016
posted by straight at 9:10 AM on July 7, 2016
(more like pentatonic than Pentecost, amiright?)
posted by straight at 9:13 AM on July 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by straight at 9:13 AM on July 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is a wonderful thread. As an Episcopalian, yea and amen; the 82 hymnal rocks. And when Eyebrows mentioned Wesley, I thought, "he's great. But not Isaac Watts." And I saw immediately I wasn't alone in that.
I've always loved old hymns, in part because I love theology. And I find doctrine really moving. And Sturgeon's law implies that we're left with the good old hymns.
posted by persona au gratin at 12:57 AM on July 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
I've always loved old hymns, in part because I love theology. And I find doctrine really moving. And Sturgeon's law implies that we're left with the good old hymns.
posted by persona au gratin at 12:57 AM on July 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
I, too, have experience with contemporary Christian music through thrift stores. The thing that stands out to me the most, and frankly, is quite annoying, is how very very very VERY repetitive the songs are. I guess to sort of hypnotize folk? There's no ear worm like a modern Christian pop song.
posted by thebrokedown at 9:43 PM on July 9, 2016
posted by thebrokedown at 9:43 PM on July 9, 2016
oh dear god how did I miss this thread
1) Richard Beck is a saint. Winter Christians represent.
2) Byzantine, I wasn't quite there yet for the blue hymnal but I remember people still complaining about the (newfangled) grey 1987, some decades later.
The grey book had the advantage of taking the first phrase of the 20th century English translation of a 16th-19th C meterized text based on a 1000 BC Hebrew poem, with such stunning/creepy/grammatically-failing song title results as
"O God, You Have Rejected Us"
"In Your Heritage the Nations"
"Blessed Are Those Who Heed the Law of God (Ps. 19, technically has 22 verses which have assuredly never all been sung by an actual congregation)
and my personal favorite "When Evil People Sin".
3) Whoever says For All The Saints is unsingable, I will fight you, it is great, especially if there is an un-pitchy soprano or two to sing the descant on vv. 7-8
4) agreed the Hymnal 1982 is pretty good but let's be honest there are some real clunkers; for every brilliant Bach, Vaughn Williams or medieval/folk melody there is a purportedly congregational hymn that manages to be fully atonal, oddly syncopated and possessed of a text that was clearly composed in the darkest days of 1977.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:24 PM on July 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
1) Richard Beck is a saint. Winter Christians represent.
2) Byzantine, I wasn't quite there yet for the blue hymnal but I remember people still complaining about the (newfangled) grey 1987, some decades later.
The grey book had the advantage of taking the first phrase of the 20th century English translation of a 16th-19th C meterized text based on a 1000 BC Hebrew poem, with such stunning/creepy/grammatically-failing song title results as
"O God, You Have Rejected Us"
"In Your Heritage the Nations"
"Blessed Are Those Who Heed the Law of God (Ps. 19, technically has 22 verses which have assuredly never all been sung by an actual congregation)
and my personal favorite "When Evil People Sin".
3) Whoever says For All The Saints is unsingable, I will fight you, it is great, especially if there is an un-pitchy soprano or two to sing the descant on vv. 7-8
4) agreed the Hymnal 1982 is pretty good but let's be honest there are some real clunkers; for every brilliant Bach, Vaughn Williams or medieval/folk melody there is a purportedly congregational hymn that manages to be fully atonal, oddly syncopated and possessed of a text that was clearly composed in the darkest days of 1977.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:24 PM on July 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
If you'd read the 4-volume, 3000-page commentary on The Hymnal 1982 (which you clearly haven't)*, you'd know that the '82 Hymnal contains significant amounts of material intended as a resource for choirs rather than congregational singing. And some of that stuff is nice to have handy if you just want to get together with a few friends and sing something a little more challenging than a typical hymn.
I'll grant you that it also has more than one text that should never have been allowed to escape the '70s.
*er, technically the preface to the organist copy will tell you this too
posted by straight at 3:02 PM on July 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'll grant you that it also has more than one text that should never have been allowed to escape the '70s.
*er, technically the preface to the organist copy will tell you this too
posted by straight at 3:02 PM on July 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
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posted by clawsoon at 10:40 AM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]