A Diamond and a Kiss: The Women of John Hughes
July 6, 2016 11:49 AM Subscribe
Holy shit, this was a great read. I was a little young when all those movies came out (born in 1976) so I watched them all on VHS in the late 80s/early 90s. I still have a nostalgic fondness for them, despite agreeing with everyone that they are problematic as hell.
Great soundtracks, tho.
posted by Kitteh at 12:33 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
Great soundtracks, tho.
posted by Kitteh at 12:33 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
The '80s are edging into Distant Past territory, and a lot of the pop culture of the time is suffering the way some aspects of '50s movies might have to an '80s audience. I was out one night and my phone started blowing up with texts...it was my wife, who had decided to kick back and watch Revenge Of The Nerds, which she'd never seen and assumed would be a light-hearted romp instead of the misogynist, racist, pretty much everything-ist horribly offensive turd it is.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:45 PM on July 6, 2016 [23 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:45 PM on July 6, 2016 [23 favorites]
"Outsiders with an eye on upward mobility". Well, I'm going to level with you. About 40 gold digging started to look pretty fucking good.
posted by josher71 at 12:55 PM on July 6, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by josher71 at 12:55 PM on July 6, 2016 [11 favorites]
"Outsiders with an eye on upward mobility".
"Greed is good" is not just something some people believed, but saw as a moral imperative. It's the backbone of Reganomics after all.
posted by bonehead at 1:08 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Greed is good" is not just something some people believed, but saw as a moral imperative. It's the backbone of Reganomics after all.
posted by bonehead at 1:08 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Outsiders with an eye on upward mobility".
Diversify your portfolio, Pony-boy.
posted by wabbittwax at 1:17 PM on July 6, 2016 [30 favorites]
Diversify your portfolio, Pony-boy.
posted by wabbittwax at 1:17 PM on July 6, 2016 [30 favorites]
Nothing gold can stay, in your portfolio
posted by Flashman at 1:34 PM on July 6, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by Flashman at 1:34 PM on July 6, 2016 [15 favorites]
The only Hughes movie I saw as a teen was Ferris Bueller, which was fun and has issues, we've talked enough about it. The only other movie of his that I'm sure I've seen is The Breakfast Club. In college, my then girlfriend wanted to fill in the gaps in my pop-culture knowledge. We watched The Breakfast Club together. Afterwards, I remember being so angry and frustrated with the film that I had to go for a long walk and then drive to clear my head. It's the only movie I've ever seen that effected me that way. I wanted to grab each and every character and say to them "this doesn't change anything, you'll be back in your rolls on Monday."
The criminal will get arrested for something small and stupid because the principle hates him. He ends up expelled, tried as an adult in the tough on crime 80s and ends up working in an autoshop for the rest of his life. He settles down and is reasonably happy, but instills in his kids a distaste for school and knowledge. He ends up voting for Donald Trump.
The princess will dump the criminal as soon as her father disapproves, using his arrest as proof that she can't be with him and offering to make the charges go away as long as she stays away from him. She does, falls back into the rich circle of friends and sycophants, gets her Mrs. degree in college and has two children who she never looks after despite being a stay at home mom.
The jock will go on the physically assault other people when feeling pressure from his teammates to be a big man. He goes back to dating cheerleaders, is buddies with several date rapists in college (although I think of him as not horrible enough to be one, see below) and helps promulgate the rape culture of the time. He busts his knee instead of going pro and ends up as a commentator decrying the PC culture of the 90s and 00s on AM radio.
The basket case will end up trying to disappear again when the jock, being mocked for dating a basket case, tries to pressure her into sex so that he can justify their relationship to his buddies. In my mind, he's a decent enough person, just weak willed, so that he does actually accept "no" for an answer. I kind of picture her ending up like Penny from High Fidelity, but perhaps she does have an awakening and finally gets out of the hellhole she is in and a few years later meets someone decent, although they would have to come from an alternative universe. (I admit to having a soft spot for Ally Sheedy's character because I liked the actress's character in War Games, although that is probably some leftover wish fulfillment on the part of my 13 year old self.)
The nerd will continue to be bullied by the others and either give up and shun social contact, becoming a proto-MRA waste of space in college or become a doormat, desperately trying to be loved by those who mock him.
It's not a stretch to say that I have a few issues with that movie. It's also why, with the exception of FBDO, I've avoided John Hughes movies like the plague. I don't need that kind of anger in my life.
posted by Hactar at 1:45 PM on July 6, 2016 [15 favorites]
The criminal will get arrested for something small and stupid because the principle hates him. He ends up expelled, tried as an adult in the tough on crime 80s and ends up working in an autoshop for the rest of his life. He settles down and is reasonably happy, but instills in his kids a distaste for school and knowledge. He ends up voting for Donald Trump.
The princess will dump the criminal as soon as her father disapproves, using his arrest as proof that she can't be with him and offering to make the charges go away as long as she stays away from him. She does, falls back into the rich circle of friends and sycophants, gets her Mrs. degree in college and has two children who she never looks after despite being a stay at home mom.
The jock will go on the physically assault other people when feeling pressure from his teammates to be a big man. He goes back to dating cheerleaders, is buddies with several date rapists in college (although I think of him as not horrible enough to be one, see below) and helps promulgate the rape culture of the time. He busts his knee instead of going pro and ends up as a commentator decrying the PC culture of the 90s and 00s on AM radio.
The basket case will end up trying to disappear again when the jock, being mocked for dating a basket case, tries to pressure her into sex so that he can justify their relationship to his buddies. In my mind, he's a decent enough person, just weak willed, so that he does actually accept "no" for an answer. I kind of picture her ending up like Penny from High Fidelity, but perhaps she does have an awakening and finally gets out of the hellhole she is in and a few years later meets someone decent, although they would have to come from an alternative universe. (I admit to having a soft spot for Ally Sheedy's character because I liked the actress's character in War Games, although that is probably some leftover wish fulfillment on the part of my 13 year old self.)
The nerd will continue to be bullied by the others and either give up and shun social contact, becoming a proto-MRA waste of space in college or become a doormat, desperately trying to be loved by those who mock him.
It's not a stretch to say that I have a few issues with that movie. It's also why, with the exception of FBDO, I've avoided John Hughes movies like the plague. I don't need that kind of anger in my life.
posted by Hactar at 1:45 PM on July 6, 2016 [15 favorites]
I already knew that Hughes's movies didn't age well in many respects. I didn't know that Hughes was apparently petulant and domineering and emotionally manipulative, and that's disappointing to hear. No doubt good art has come from worse people than he, but I still wish he'd had someone in his life who could tell him when he was being a dick.
posted by savetheclocktower at 1:46 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by savetheclocktower at 1:46 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
I still wish he'd had someone in his life who could tell him when he was being a dick.
People like that are generally super-good at being told and not hearing.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:53 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
People like that are generally super-good at being told and not hearing.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:53 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
> People like that are generally super-good at being told and not hearing.
Yeah, mainly I wish that he had had a soft spot for someone who could be honest with him, I guess because “I wish he hadn't been a dick at all” felt like too much to wish for.
posted by savetheclocktower at 2:01 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah, mainly I wish that he had had a soft spot for someone who could be honest with him, I guess because “I wish he hadn't been a dick at all” felt like too much to wish for.
posted by savetheclocktower at 2:01 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
These threads always make me (a Gen-Xer in the prime marketing demographic of John Hughes) glad that by accident or happenstance I missed out on all/most of the pop culture things that are supposed to have been so defining and seminal to people my age. I saw Ferris Bueller in the theatre (and literally the only things I thought about it was 1) I miss Chicago; 2) Emilio Estevez' brother is way hotter than he is--but that's about it. I can't even name a single song played at my prom.
I mean, it was obvious from the ads at the time that Revenge of the Nerds (and a whole bunch of other movies) was sexist and probably dialed all the way up to misogynist (and racist, like all those 80's "romps"). And I'm glad I had adults in my life who knew that, even if all we could do was dismiss it as "puerile" or "not my kind of humor" because either you were a kid, like me, without the language (and authority) to talk about casual sexism or the entrenched misogyny or you were an adult, in the 80's, who was ridiculed or discounted (or who endangered the good will of your colleagues) when you pointed out these flaws.
God, the 80's in the U.S. I don't miss them at all. Not at all. I mean, we've got a lot of shit flying around the U.S. in 2016, but at least we're allowed to be angry about it. And someone like me--a highly-educated white woman in a prestige profession--is really allowed to be angry about it without jeopardizing anything except an invitation to some cousin-by-marriage's BBQ I did not really want to go to anyway.
posted by crush-onastick at 2:11 PM on July 6, 2016 [10 favorites]
I mean, it was obvious from the ads at the time that Revenge of the Nerds (and a whole bunch of other movies) was sexist and probably dialed all the way up to misogynist (and racist, like all those 80's "romps"). And I'm glad I had adults in my life who knew that, even if all we could do was dismiss it as "puerile" or "not my kind of humor" because either you were a kid, like me, without the language (and authority) to talk about casual sexism or the entrenched misogyny or you were an adult, in the 80's, who was ridiculed or discounted (or who endangered the good will of your colleagues) when you pointed out these flaws.
God, the 80's in the U.S. I don't miss them at all. Not at all. I mean, we've got a lot of shit flying around the U.S. in 2016, but at least we're allowed to be angry about it. And someone like me--a highly-educated white woman in a prestige profession--is really allowed to be angry about it without jeopardizing anything except an invitation to some cousin-by-marriage's BBQ I did not really want to go to anyway.
posted by crush-onastick at 2:11 PM on July 6, 2016 [10 favorites]
who had decided to kick back and watch Revenge Of The Nerds, which she'd never seen and assumed would be a light-hearted romp instead of the misogynist, racist, pretty much everything-ist horribly offensive turd it is.
The 80s nerd movie that holds up and has far fewer problems with misogyny/race is Real Genius.
posted by chimaera at 2:16 PM on July 6, 2016 [48 favorites]
The 80s nerd movie that holds up and has far fewer problems with misogyny/race is Real Genius.
posted by chimaera at 2:16 PM on July 6, 2016 [48 favorites]
The precise moment my teenage self knew I did not fit into my generation was my disdain for all films John Hughes for the reasons outlined. I thought it was all knee-slapping propaganda and sophistry, learning how to cover your bases -- pretend to be a rebel, but merely scam and buy yourself time until you get what you really wanted all along...pretend to hate the Establishment when you want it more than anything else.
Back in the 80s, the idea of rebel was co-opted by Pepsi and Cabbage Patch dolls and poseurs got away with it because no one wants to question the easy and safe way of getting the label. The guy who stood in front of a tank in Tiananmen Square was a true rebel.
John Hughes created the map for those kinds of politicians who claim to be rebel outsiders, but always have an eye toward a powerful and cushy job telling other people what to do...
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 2:16 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
Back in the 80s, the idea of rebel was co-opted by Pepsi and Cabbage Patch dolls and poseurs got away with it because no one wants to question the easy and safe way of getting the label. The guy who stood in front of a tank in Tiananmen Square was a true rebel.
John Hughes created the map for those kinds of politicians who claim to be rebel outsiders, but always have an eye toward a powerful and cushy job telling other people what to do...
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 2:16 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
I can remember being 14, going to see Pretty in Pink in the theaters with my girlfriends, and emerging from that cinema absolutely livid at how the movie ended. I never understood what was so compelling about Blaine that he was worth it. I never understood why the yuppie couldn't love Ilona just the way she was.
I also remember watching The Breakfast Club around that age and also being disgusted by it. There is no cynic like the 13-year-old whose friends will no longer be seen at school talking to her because she's not "cool" enough; I knew that nothing had changed and Monday, all five of those people would pretend they didn't know one another. And I fumed, fumed, fumed at the premise that the real breakthrough was that they all concluded "Each one of us is a brain, and an athlete, a basket case, a princess and a criminal."
I raged and raged, "Why do they need labels at all?" That question literally never comes up in the movie. These kids are mewling and puling because the labels are hard, but they never reject them or question the very premise that labels are necessary at all.
This piece beautifully sums up how John Hughes enforced social conformity by wrapping it in soulful acting performances and genuinely great soundtracks.
posted by sobell at 2:20 PM on July 6, 2016 [7 favorites]
I also remember watching The Breakfast Club around that age and also being disgusted by it. There is no cynic like the 13-year-old whose friends will no longer be seen at school talking to her because she's not "cool" enough; I knew that nothing had changed and Monday, all five of those people would pretend they didn't know one another. And I fumed, fumed, fumed at the premise that the real breakthrough was that they all concluded "Each one of us is a brain, and an athlete, a basket case, a princess and a criminal."
I raged and raged, "Why do they need labels at all?" That question literally never comes up in the movie. These kids are mewling and puling because the labels are hard, but they never reject them or question the very premise that labels are necessary at all.
This piece beautifully sums up how John Hughes enforced social conformity by wrapping it in soulful acting performances and genuinely great soundtracks.
posted by sobell at 2:20 PM on July 6, 2016 [7 favorites]
WHY DID CLAIRE EAT WARM SUSHI??? Her fancy uncooked fish was just sitting in the library ALL MORNING.
posted by armacy at 2:33 PM on July 6, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by armacy at 2:33 PM on July 6, 2016 [17 favorites]
repo man is the only authentic 80s teen movie.
posted by ennui.bz at 2:39 PM on July 6, 2016 [37 favorites]
posted by ennui.bz at 2:39 PM on July 6, 2016 [37 favorites]
The "criminal" in The Breakfast Club isn't really a criminal; Bender is just another upper-middle-class kid, but one that was sufficiently infatuated by S.E. Hinton's The Outsiders (and sufficiently disgusted by his parents and peers) that he decided to cosplay as a greaser 24/7, up to and including "borrowing" one of his dad's cigars to burn himself with it to make it seem as if he'd been Scarred By Life. That's the only real explanation for Judd Nelson's stunningly wrong-headed portrayal of a working-class kid, one who would have gotten his ass kicked on a regular basis by all the working-class kids I knew growing up. This phase lasts until his dad, who has long since had enough of his son's posing, sends him to hang out for the summer with some distant cousins who are actually working class, after which he comes back and starts applying himself to working on his GPA and college applications. Thus, he ends up at Georgetown with the basket case (who similarly passes through her own phase) and the jock, and they meet a couple of prep school buddies and they all become great friends.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:48 PM on July 6, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:48 PM on July 6, 2016 [11 favorites]
Akira more accurately represents my teen experience.
posted by poe at 2:48 PM on July 6, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by poe at 2:48 PM on July 6, 2016 [13 favorites]
I dunno, is there an 80s movie where the girl pressures her boyfriend into staging crime scene photos, complete with corpse makeup, in a local culvert? Then later, he smokes oregano because he doesn't know any pot dealers and his older sister wouldn't share?
Santa Barbara was a weird place in the 80s.
posted by happyroach at 2:56 PM on July 6, 2016 [7 favorites]
Santa Barbara was a weird place in the 80s.
posted by happyroach at 2:56 PM on July 6, 2016 [7 favorites]
While I can't speak to the jocks and princesses of Hactar's rant, as someone who was in high school at the time, my experience was that the weirdos and nerds ended up quite happy in the end.
posted by tavella at 2:57 PM on July 6, 2016
posted by tavella at 2:57 PM on July 6, 2016
I am pretty creeped out that John Hughes stopped talking to Molly Ringwald after he saw her maybe on a date.
posted by corb at 3:17 PM on July 6, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by corb at 3:17 PM on July 6, 2016 [13 favorites]
Allison also dresses entirely in dark shades—she is a human eclipse in a time when, according to Vance, “black was not happening.” “The only other person who looked like that then was the Pretenders’ Chrissie Hynde,”8 Sheedy said in John Hughes: A Life in Film, “that pale, dark, androgynous rock-singer look.”
LOL. It's like you guys missed a little thing called punk rock. (And post punk, and goth, and death rock.) (Whatever, shut up, Hollywood people.)
posted by Squeak Attack at 3:24 PM on July 6, 2016 [13 favorites]
LOL. It's like you guys missed a little thing called punk rock. (And post punk, and goth, and death rock.) (Whatever, shut up, Hollywood people.)
posted by Squeak Attack at 3:24 PM on July 6, 2016 [13 favorites]
chimaera: The 80s nerd movie that holds up and has far fewer problems with misogyny/race is Real Genius.
Fewer problems with misogyny and race, maybe. But, having rewatched it recently, Real Genius is an AWFUL movie. The fact that my generation of nerds had Chris Knight as one of their role models goes a long way towards explaining why nerd culture is so combative and shitty to each other.
posted by hanov3r at 3:25 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
Fewer problems with misogyny and race, maybe. But, having rewatched it recently, Real Genius is an AWFUL movie. The fact that my generation of nerds had Chris Knight as one of their role models goes a long way towards explaining why nerd culture is so combative and shitty to each other.
posted by hanov3r at 3:25 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
I somehow avoided seeing any John Hughes movies (except for Ferris) until a few years ago, when I finally got around to watching The Breakfast Club and Sixteen Candles. I was born in 1977, so I guess I was a bit too young for them when they first came out.
Even so, they both felt incredibly familiar: the quintessence of a certain 80s cinematic sensibility. I didn't know the plots or the characters, but I'd known the feeling of the movies for as long as I could remember. (I'm sure the music was part of that.)
Hughes' genius was to accept teen concerns on their own terms, and to embrace them wholeheartedly and unironically. Even though there is conflict between his young characters, it's clear that their world – the world of dating and its attendant anxieties, and being misunderstood by your peers, and being humiliated by the jocks, and dreaming of a destiny grander than the one laid out for you by your family and your teachers – is the "real" world. The adult world exists in the background, almost as an abstraction. Parents and principals are uniformly presented as an adversarial Other, often painted as petty and absurd figures. The protagonists, for all their differences, share the common bond of being prisoners of the adult world – and the drama comes from their quest for moments of freedom and transcendence against that backdrop. It actually reminds me a bit of Orange is the New Black in that way.
(It's been a while since I've seen the films, so it's possible that the previous paragraph is entirely wrongheaded and/or pretentious. But that's the general theme I remember.)
I agree that (like so much pop culture of the 80s) they dealt in a sort of faux-rebellion – a Billy Idol sneer, all image and no substance. They are fundamentally conservative movies, from a conservative industry (Hollywood) in a fundamentally conservative American era. In a Hughes movie, all the misfits really want or need is to be accepted by the normals, to become normals themselves.
They are certainly not perfect movies – for all of the reasons that TFA mentions. I remember liking The Breakfast Club better (although I did raise an eyebrow when it turned out that Ally Sheedy just needed to conform to conventional beauty standards and accept her proper role as an object of the male gaze). As for Sixteen Candles, I just remember thinking "holy shit, they are legitimately playing teen rape for laughs". I expected the movies to exude a certain innocent 80s charm, and they delivered that in spades. I did not expect that charm to be repeatedly marred by super-fucking-problematic sexual politics. It was an odd viewing experience, and made me rethink some of the people I've known who fawn over John Hughes.
Heathers is still cool, right? Please don't tell me that my opinion of Heathers would suffer from a rewatch.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 3:27 PM on July 6, 2016 [17 favorites]
Even so, they both felt incredibly familiar: the quintessence of a certain 80s cinematic sensibility. I didn't know the plots or the characters, but I'd known the feeling of the movies for as long as I could remember. (I'm sure the music was part of that.)
Hughes' genius was to accept teen concerns on their own terms, and to embrace them wholeheartedly and unironically. Even though there is conflict between his young characters, it's clear that their world – the world of dating and its attendant anxieties, and being misunderstood by your peers, and being humiliated by the jocks, and dreaming of a destiny grander than the one laid out for you by your family and your teachers – is the "real" world. The adult world exists in the background, almost as an abstraction. Parents and principals are uniformly presented as an adversarial Other, often painted as petty and absurd figures. The protagonists, for all their differences, share the common bond of being prisoners of the adult world – and the drama comes from their quest for moments of freedom and transcendence against that backdrop. It actually reminds me a bit of Orange is the New Black in that way.
(It's been a while since I've seen the films, so it's possible that the previous paragraph is entirely wrongheaded and/or pretentious. But that's the general theme I remember.)
I agree that (like so much pop culture of the 80s) they dealt in a sort of faux-rebellion – a Billy Idol sneer, all image and no substance. They are fundamentally conservative movies, from a conservative industry (Hollywood) in a fundamentally conservative American era. In a Hughes movie, all the misfits really want or need is to be accepted by the normals, to become normals themselves.
They are certainly not perfect movies – for all of the reasons that TFA mentions. I remember liking The Breakfast Club better (although I did raise an eyebrow when it turned out that Ally Sheedy just needed to conform to conventional beauty standards and accept her proper role as an object of the male gaze). As for Sixteen Candles, I just remember thinking "holy shit, they are legitimately playing teen rape for laughs". I expected the movies to exude a certain innocent 80s charm, and they delivered that in spades. I did not expect that charm to be repeatedly marred by super-fucking-problematic sexual politics. It was an odd viewing experience, and made me rethink some of the people I've known who fawn over John Hughes.
Heathers is still cool, right? Please don't tell me that my opinion of Heathers would suffer from a rewatch.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 3:27 PM on July 6, 2016 [17 favorites]
They are fundamentally conservative movies, from a conservative industry (Hollywood) in a fundamentally conservative American era. In a Hughes movie, all the misfits really want or need is to be accepted by the normals, to become normals themselves.
Yeah, totally. Look journos, I graduated from high school in 1986, I am the John Hughes generation, I saw all these movies in the theater, I was going to prom and parties when all these miserable movie shits were going to prom and parties and all I really want is for pop culture to just stop sucking John Hughes's dick for the forseeable future.
posted by Squeak Attack at 3:33 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah, totally. Look journos, I graduated from high school in 1986, I am the John Hughes generation, I saw all these movies in the theater, I was going to prom and parties when all these miserable movie shits were going to prom and parties and all I really want is for pop culture to just stop sucking John Hughes's dick for the forseeable future.
posted by Squeak Attack at 3:33 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
Never liked John Hughes's movies, but he did write a bunch of kick-ass stories for National Lampoon...
posted by AJaffe at 3:53 PM on July 6, 2016
posted by AJaffe at 3:53 PM on July 6, 2016
Ferris Bueller was a user and a manipulator, a truly vile human being. That's all I've got.
posted by Beholder at 3:54 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Beholder at 3:54 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
repo man is the only authentic 80s teen movie
Fast Times at Ridgemont High and to a lesser extent Valley Girl both were very realistic to me at the time (I admit I haven't watched either one recently.) They both had scenes and characters seemingly lifted from my own life.
I think Fast Times may have been one of the first movies to show high school girls having sex just so they would not be "loser" virgins. Female virginity was no longer a cherished asset but a sure sign you were undesirable/not cool.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:03 PM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
Fast Times at Ridgemont High and to a lesser extent Valley Girl both were very realistic to me at the time (I admit I haven't watched either one recently.) They both had scenes and characters seemingly lifted from my own life.
I think Fast Times may have been one of the first movies to show high school girls having sex just so they would not be "loser" virgins. Female virginity was no longer a cherished asset but a sure sign you were undesirable/not cool.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:03 PM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
I remember vividly the nausea when I first saw the new 'pretty' Allison who emerged from the makeover with Claire. Every aspect of her changed appearance aligned with something about my own appearance that my family wanted me to change, although I was more grungy baby riot grrrl than black-clothed artistic weirdo.
The hair out of her pretty face. The colorful, feminine, well-fitting clothes. The 'natural' makeup (I wore none). 'See, with a little effort, you could be so pretty!' That's as maybe, Mom and Dad, but anyway: fuck pretty.
Allison was, to me, a sort of Stepford wife - once an obvious individual, but now some boys think she's pretty, which is way better. Every ugly duckling transformation in every teen film reiterated this message, reminding me that I was still fucking it all up by preferring my oddness to remain visible.* By my teenage years, I was convinced that once you are seen as beautiful, you never get to be yourself again. I never wore makeup nor painted my nails. I wore the ugliest t-shirts, the most outdated corduroys, the least flattering flannels. I kept my hair short. I wore glasses instead of contacts.
Now that I have grown up to be more or less happily weird and frumpy, I do not feel the same kneejerk reaction away from beauty that I felt in my youth, but have mustered even greater contempt for the lessons of Allison and the countless other beautiful women remade to be yet more beautiful for the men who could not see them before. As though our identities are so malleable, so open to negotiations with those who show us no interest.
*I was also deeply affected by the finishing school's recommendation of 'A lot of night games' for the bad-ass ballplayer Marla Hooch in A League of Their Own because it's like, even if you try and do everything right, there is the very real chance that you will be found wanting anyway. Those two fans who kept bringing flowers to the ball games for Rosie O'Donnell pointed the way out - your amazingness will be apparent to others, even without conventional beauty. Anyway, the lesson I took from that movie was also: fuck pretty.
posted by palindromic at 4:03 PM on July 6, 2016 [23 favorites]
The hair out of her pretty face. The colorful, feminine, well-fitting clothes. The 'natural' makeup (I wore none). 'See, with a little effort, you could be so pretty!' That's as maybe, Mom and Dad, but anyway: fuck pretty.
Allison was, to me, a sort of Stepford wife - once an obvious individual, but now some boys think she's pretty, which is way better. Every ugly duckling transformation in every teen film reiterated this message, reminding me that I was still fucking it all up by preferring my oddness to remain visible.* By my teenage years, I was convinced that once you are seen as beautiful, you never get to be yourself again. I never wore makeup nor painted my nails. I wore the ugliest t-shirts, the most outdated corduroys, the least flattering flannels. I kept my hair short. I wore glasses instead of contacts.
Now that I have grown up to be more or less happily weird and frumpy, I do not feel the same kneejerk reaction away from beauty that I felt in my youth, but have mustered even greater contempt for the lessons of Allison and the countless other beautiful women remade to be yet more beautiful for the men who could not see them before. As though our identities are so malleable, so open to negotiations with those who show us no interest.
*I was also deeply affected by the finishing school's recommendation of 'A lot of night games' for the bad-ass ballplayer Marla Hooch in A League of Their Own because it's like, even if you try and do everything right, there is the very real chance that you will be found wanting anyway. Those two fans who kept bringing flowers to the ball games for Rosie O'Donnell pointed the way out - your amazingness will be apparent to others, even without conventional beauty. Anyway, the lesson I took from that movie was also: fuck pretty.
posted by palindromic at 4:03 PM on July 6, 2016 [23 favorites]
The 80s nerd movie that holds up and has far fewer problems with misogyny/race is Real Genius
Quoted for truth.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:05 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
Quoted for truth.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:05 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh yeah the makeover scene in every movie was a message: buy enough make up, buy the right clothes and shoes, get your hair done right, spend enough time "working" on yourself* and the boys will be all over you. The only difference was sometimes the "right" look was soft and flirty and sometimes it was slutty and hot.
* And thanks to Cosmo I was already spending a lot of time working on myself. Helen Gurley Brown's message was anybody can look good if they try hard enough.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:10 PM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
* And thanks to Cosmo I was already spending a lot of time working on myself. Helen Gurley Brown's message was anybody can look good if they try hard enough.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:10 PM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
LOL. It's like you guys missed a little thing called punk rock. (And post punk, and goth, and death rock.) (Whatever, shut up, Hollywood people.)
Yeah, the movies took place in the Chicago suburbs at THE EXACT TIME Chicago was one of the epicenters of industrial music thanks to Wax Trax!.
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:15 PM on July 6, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yeah, the movies took place in the Chicago suburbs at THE EXACT TIME Chicago was one of the epicenters of industrial music thanks to Wax Trax!.
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:15 PM on July 6, 2016 [6 favorites]
Oh yeah the makeover scene in every movie was a message: buy enough make up, buy the right clothes and shoes, get your hair done right, spend enough time "working" on yourself* and the boys will be all over you.
To be fair, that trope goes way back in the movies -- Humphrey Bogart saying, "Hello," to the bookshop proprietress when she takes off her glasses in The Big Sleep. I'm sure there are earlier ones -- that's the first one I thought of.
But that trope did provide me with my first inklings of "The movies are bullshit ..." irritation when I watched Grease with my friends in elementary school and thought it was damned ridiculous that the so-called happy ending happened only after the woman remade herself to the man's standards. That 4th-grade irritability served me well when I got into the John Hughes oeuvre in middle school.
I'm now trying to think if there's been any mainstream movie where the teenaged girl gets her own makeover for her own damned self and does not give a shit if any boys like the new look.
posted by sobell at 4:22 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
If we're talking 80's youth representations in cinema don't y'all dare sleep on Purple Rain, yo! But yeah, even PR has its issues...
posted by Bob Regular at 4:28 PM on July 6, 2016
posted by Bob Regular at 4:28 PM on July 6, 2016
Makeover scenes also never show what I expect would be a more likely outcome of a nerdy teenage outcast coming into school with their new cargo cult coolness: mockery designed to remind the made-over that they never were and never will be actually cool. The rapid adoption of a new identity just lets the shithead teens of the world know exactly which insecurities to target.
posted by palindromic at 4:34 PM on July 6, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by palindromic at 4:34 PM on July 6, 2016 [12 favorites]
At some point in high school in the 80s, I came to understand the toxicity of the makeover trope. This wasn't because of any great understanding of the issues that women faced (although I'd like to pretend that), but because I realized it wouldn't work for me as a nerdy male. I'd realize I'd never be the jock, no matter what, despite being sort of athletic (although I have to say that Real Genius made me see that I could see how it could be cool to be a nerd, whatever the larger effect of that movie). Thankfully in the ensuing years I've come to understand how it impacts women so, so much more, and it drives me nuts anytime I see it.
posted by mollweide at 4:34 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by mollweide at 4:34 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well, to be fair, Danny did also remake himself to be more like Sandy. It's just he immediately dropped it when he saw her transformation. Like how in The Gift of the Magi, the guy kept his receipt and immediately gets his watch back.
Of course, the part that really bugged me about the Breakfast Club was that my guy got stuck alone with everyone's homework while they got to make out. (And if you say he did get paired with his love — schoolwork, I will hunt you down and force you to watch Seltzer/Friedberg movies.)
posted by ckape at 4:36 PM on July 6, 2016 [12 favorites]
Of course, the part that really bugged me about the Breakfast Club was that my guy got stuck alone with everyone's homework while they got to make out. (And if you say he did get paired with his love — schoolwork, I will hunt you down and force you to watch Seltzer/Friedberg movies.)
posted by ckape at 4:36 PM on July 6, 2016 [12 favorites]
It's not a stretch to say that I have a few issues with that movie.
I'll say. Those are just about the grimmest possible takes on those characters, and the grimmest possible outcomes to imagine for them. I think that Ally Sheedy's "popular girl" makeover is a horrifying little scene, but otherwise it's like we were watching completely different films. I do doubt those kids stayed friends/couples, but I don't think they were bad kids and I really doubt they grew up to be such ghastly adults. (Although Hughes apparently planned Reach the Rock as a semi-sequel where John Bender was a messed-up, adult drifter, so I have to give you half a point there.)
I hated Ferris Bueller as a kid, and don't like it any more now. (Ugh. Smug, smug, smug.)
posted by Ursula Hitler at 5:02 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'll say. Those are just about the grimmest possible takes on those characters, and the grimmest possible outcomes to imagine for them. I think that Ally Sheedy's "popular girl" makeover is a horrifying little scene, but otherwise it's like we were watching completely different films. I do doubt those kids stayed friends/couples, but I don't think they were bad kids and I really doubt they grew up to be such ghastly adults. (Although Hughes apparently planned Reach the Rock as a semi-sequel where John Bender was a messed-up, adult drifter, so I have to give you half a point there.)
I hated Ferris Bueller as a kid, and don't like it any more now. (Ugh. Smug, smug, smug.)
posted by Ursula Hitler at 5:02 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm just a scootch too young (born in 74) to have been a bona fide teen during most of the Hughes hayday, which I think actually worked out well for me. I never saw most of the genre and the ones I did see I didn't really think that deeply about or have any evidence to their contrary. I saw (and rewatched over and over because what the hell else are you going to do with your time in the late 80s?) Ferris Beuller, the Breakfast Club, and (and this was my favorite, to my eternal shame) Weird Science on VHS courtesy of taping them off HBO. Never saw Sixteen Candles or Revenge if the Nerds, or Real Genius or St. Elmo's Fire or etc. I am more in the Princess Bride cohort than the Sixteen Candles cohort.
But I always thought the whole point of the Breakfast Club (other than the boss soundtrack) was that clearly they were all going to go right back to the way they were on Monday. Like, that is the point, right? Did I hallucinate that?
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:02 PM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
But I always thought the whole point of the Breakfast Club (other than the boss soundtrack) was that clearly they were all going to go right back to the way they were on Monday. Like, that is the point, right? Did I hallucinate that?
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:02 PM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
Are SAY ANYTHING and THE SURE THING still acceptable? Because those were the ones that really spoke to me at the time.
posted by old_growler at 5:02 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by old_growler at 5:02 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
"Thirty years on, however, we’ve dropped the rose-coloured glasses, . . ."
Yes, most things from 30 years ago don't hold up well over time and I don't disagree much with the authors opinions now.
But 30 years ago some of those movies helped us. I was five years out of high school when the Breakfast Club came out and saw it in a small theater in Bozeman, Montana and when the movie was over the audience stood up and cheered. "You see us as you want to see us - in the simplest terms, in the most convenient definitions. But what we found out is that each one of us is a brain..." struck home to a lot of us. I went from Brian Johnson to John Bender in high school and found myself stereotyped by adults in each role.
A few years ago I gave a DVD of "The Breakfast Club" to my then-girlfriend's daughter for her 17th birthday. I didn't talk about how I felt about it because I thought she would maybe just toss it because it was "old." But in the first week after her birthday she watched it. Then with watched it again with friends. Then more friends. Then I would come home and there would be 15 teenagers in the living room watching the movie and qouting the lines out loud. These were all the "alternative" kids in high school, not the "richies" or the jocks.
They saw all the things the author pointed out that were wrong, but they still saw the movie's example of how the characters gained a better understanding of each other and shared the trials of adolescence. They knew that on Monday. "And as far as being concerned about what's gonna happen when you and I walk down the hallways of school together, you can forget it cuz it's never gonna happen."
But they also were reassured that, "But what we found out is that each one of us is a brain...
Andrew Clark: ...and an athlete...
Allison Reynolds: ...and a basket case...
Claire Standish: ...a princess...
John Bender: ...and a criminal..."
Which had the same effect as it them, as it did on me.
posted by ITravelMontana at 5:12 PM on July 6, 2016 [7 favorites]
Yes, most things from 30 years ago don't hold up well over time and I don't disagree much with the authors opinions now.
But 30 years ago some of those movies helped us. I was five years out of high school when the Breakfast Club came out and saw it in a small theater in Bozeman, Montana and when the movie was over the audience stood up and cheered. "You see us as you want to see us - in the simplest terms, in the most convenient definitions. But what we found out is that each one of us is a brain..." struck home to a lot of us. I went from Brian Johnson to John Bender in high school and found myself stereotyped by adults in each role.
A few years ago I gave a DVD of "The Breakfast Club" to my then-girlfriend's daughter for her 17th birthday. I didn't talk about how I felt about it because I thought she would maybe just toss it because it was "old." But in the first week after her birthday she watched it. Then with watched it again with friends. Then more friends. Then I would come home and there would be 15 teenagers in the living room watching the movie and qouting the lines out loud. These were all the "alternative" kids in high school, not the "richies" or the jocks.
They saw all the things the author pointed out that were wrong, but they still saw the movie's example of how the characters gained a better understanding of each other and shared the trials of adolescence. They knew that on Monday. "And as far as being concerned about what's gonna happen when you and I walk down the hallways of school together, you can forget it cuz it's never gonna happen."
But they also were reassured that, "But what we found out is that each one of us is a brain...
Andrew Clark: ...and an athlete...
Allison Reynolds: ...and a basket case...
Claire Standish: ...a princess...
John Bender: ...and a criminal..."
Which had the same effect as it them, as it did on me.
posted by ITravelMontana at 5:12 PM on July 6, 2016 [7 favorites]
Sixteen Candles may not hold up, but the house can be yours for a cool 1.5 million.
posted by Pryde at 5:30 PM on July 6, 2016
posted by Pryde at 5:30 PM on July 6, 2016
I wanted to grab each and every character and say to them "this doesn't change anything, you'll be back in your rolls on Monday."
Yeah, you know, they literally acknowledge this in the movie.
posted by schoolgirl report at 5:33 PM on July 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
Yeah, you know, they literally acknowledge this in the movie.
posted by schoolgirl report at 5:33 PM on July 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
Well... not QUITE by Monday. Not for all of them. Allison and Andrew will hang out for a few weeks while they try to figure out what else they have in common, until he gets caught up in his schedule and she tires of playing dress-up and they part as friendly acquaintances. Bender and Claire will go out for a month, she'll learn what it's like to get felt up at the drive-in, they'll eventually piss each other off one too many times and go back to their former crowds.
Brian? He's back in his old role before the fucking movie is even OVER. "You can do our group project for us, right? You're the smart one and, well, the rest of us are going to be busy making out."
posted by delfin at 5:48 PM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
Brian? He's back in his old role before the fucking movie is even OVER. "You can do our group project for us, right? You're the smart one and, well, the rest of us are going to be busy making out."
posted by delfin at 5:48 PM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
hanov3r, would you mind expanding on you Real Genius thoughts? I'm another person who saw it again and still loved it, so I feel like I missing something important.
posted by Deoridhe at 5:51 PM on July 6, 2016
posted by Deoridhe at 5:51 PM on July 6, 2016
Are SAY ANYTHING and THE SURE THING still acceptable?
I don't remember anything about The Sure Thing but I've had a hate-on for Ur Nice Guy Lloyd Dobler for decades now.
posted by Squeak Attack at 5:59 PM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
I don't remember anything about The Sure Thing but I've had a hate-on for Ur Nice Guy Lloyd Dobler for decades now.
posted by Squeak Attack at 5:59 PM on July 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
You people really love talking about this guy and his movies.
posted by jonmc at 6:13 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by jonmc at 6:13 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
(Seriously, I was an actual teenager when these came out and they were fun at the time but they really didn't age well, even within 3 or 4 years)
posted by jonmc at 6:18 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jonmc at 6:18 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Breakfast Club. Ugh. Even when I saw it as a teen, it rang false on quite a few fronts. Yeah, none of it was going to mean shit on Monday. The "romance" subplots were nonsensical to me - they felt like they were there because the movie was duty bound to have some kind of romance thing going on, not because they made any sense in terms of the characters or anything.
But the worst bit for me was after all this "soul searching" and realizations about themselves and the labels they live with that aren't fair and are imposed on them: they leave the "brain" to do the homework. Way to completely undermine your entire point about rejecting labels and conformity, you've just done it to one of your "own", shitheels. And worse, he bought in.
posted by nubs at 6:31 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
But the worst bit for me was after all this "soul searching" and realizations about themselves and the labels they live with that aren't fair and are imposed on them: they leave the "brain" to do the homework. Way to completely undermine your entire point about rejecting labels and conformity, you've just done it to one of your "own", shitheels. And worse, he bought in.
posted by nubs at 6:31 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
There's a ranty book from 1994 about the awfulness of Generation X called 'Generation Ecch.' On 'The Breakfast Club' and John Hughes nostalgia:
“[John] Hughes was unforgivably remiss as far as multiculturalism goes. These are all suburban white kids, for god’s sake! If The Breakfast Club were made today, Judd Nelson’s part would be played by Tupac, and Anthony Michael Hall’s by B. D. Wong. Ally Sheedy’s character would be a lesbian, and the Emilio Estevez character wouldn’t exist.”
posted by box at 6:37 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
“[John] Hughes was unforgivably remiss as far as multiculturalism goes. These are all suburban white kids, for god’s sake! If The Breakfast Club were made today, Judd Nelson’s part would be played by Tupac, and Anthony Michael Hall’s by B. D. Wong. Ally Sheedy’s character would be a lesbian, and the Emilio Estevez character wouldn’t exist.”
posted by box at 6:37 PM on July 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
and it would still suck.
posted by jonmc at 7:01 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jonmc at 7:01 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
someone please promise me that I won't feel this way about 10 Things I Hate About You in ten years
posted by nonasuch at 7:13 PM on July 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by nonasuch at 7:13 PM on July 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
Wouldn't it be...oh I don't know... FUCKING AMAZING if we never spoke of John Hughes and his oeuvre again? What does it add to any cultural continuum worth discussing? What did he say that hadn't already been said by countless wealthy white dudes before him? Hell, Gilgamesh is more useful. Maybe it's less "accessible", but that also begs the question of accessibility in the age of Wikipedia.
No, seriously, What The Fuck. John Hughes is a Grand High Wizard Panderer. Take off the nostalgia filter and get a real whiff. There's fucking nothing here worth keeping. Oh, wow, way to go John Hughes! You've limped over the extremely low bar of Hollywood teen rom-coms and now every asshole with a camera or a blog wants to remember your bullshit. Yay! Let's all double-down on rock-hard gender essentialism and lazy self-affirmation malarkey until there's nothing left of ourselves or our ability to communicate in any way other than bland axioms and a really well-edited mixtape.
Which is to say, thank you for sharing this Fine Article by Soraya Roberts, which does a much better job of articulating why John Hughes's films are awful, sad little affairs, a brief awkward comma in the run-on sentence of Western culture.
posted by Doleful Creature at 7:15 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
No, seriously, What The Fuck. John Hughes is a Grand High Wizard Panderer. Take off the nostalgia filter and get a real whiff. There's fucking nothing here worth keeping. Oh, wow, way to go John Hughes! You've limped over the extremely low bar of Hollywood teen rom-coms and now every asshole with a camera or a blog wants to remember your bullshit. Yay! Let's all double-down on rock-hard gender essentialism and lazy self-affirmation malarkey until there's nothing left of ourselves or our ability to communicate in any way other than bland axioms and a really well-edited mixtape.
Which is to say, thank you for sharing this Fine Article by Soraya Roberts, which does a much better job of articulating why John Hughes's films are awful, sad little affairs, a brief awkward comma in the run-on sentence of Western culture.
posted by Doleful Creature at 7:15 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
It seems like some of the Breakfast Club criticism is that the teenage characters are self-absorbed, immature, and oblivious to their own cruelties and superficialities, despite being so absurdly serious about their own inconsequential grievances.
I mean... well... duh.
Hughes captured the achingly earnest ignorance, the anticipation and uncertainty, enthusiasm and anxiety mishmash of adolescence. It's a volatile stage most of us are happy to forget, but he was able to preserve the ambiguity and imperfection without a shade of contempt for them, or nostalgic hindsight idealization of them.
Of course they didn't age well - they didn't grow up.
posted by Fantods at 7:21 PM on July 6, 2016 [7 favorites]
I mean... well... duh.
Hughes captured the achingly earnest ignorance, the anticipation and uncertainty, enthusiasm and anxiety mishmash of adolescence. It's a volatile stage most of us are happy to forget, but he was able to preserve the ambiguity and imperfection without a shade of contempt for them, or nostalgic hindsight idealization of them.
Of course they didn't age well - they didn't grow up.
posted by Fantods at 7:21 PM on July 6, 2016 [7 favorites]
Deoridhe, I wasn't the original commenter, but there's definitely a strain of misogyny and male entitlement running through Real Genius that I soaked in as a teenager, and bristle at occasionally now. As the resident geek in my Footloose-esque small town in the 80s, I clung to Real Genius like a beacon of possibility. Someone will need me because I'm smart! But in the whole movie, there are only four types of roles for women. 1. Sexually available pretty girl, played by both Deborah Foreman and Patti D'Arbanville. 2. Mom type, filled by main character's mom, lady at science fair asking about Mr. Einstein, and College President's wife, who cracks a joke no one understands. 3. Jordan, brilliant and socially inept, and love interest for our main character. 4. Engineer on the test plane, who is harassed by Dr. Hathaway in a very subtle cut-scene between Important Action.
The idea behind the entire movie is that if you're smart enough, you are entitled: to the best job, with perks galore (and women are implied as one of those perks), to the best grades, to the best achievements. There are some Asian characters roaming the halls, but Jordan (the character) was based on an actual student who I believe is Asian American, but they just cut Michelle's hair into a bob. Gabe Jarrett was 15 at the time he played Mitch Taylor, and in the popcorn scenes, it seems like he's a little handsy with Michelle Meyrink, who was a solid 8 years older than him at the time.
There are so many scenes where Val Kilmer is really obnoxious about picking up girls and hitting on them and talking about hitting on them and just constantly on the make. That he's set up to be a sort of role model for Mitch is more than a little creepy. We're also supposed to hate Kent, the suck-up of the group, who did a whole bunch of labor for his professor and is betrayed at the last second, seemingly because he's following the rules. Oh. The Eighties. Argh.
I grew up soaking in the conformity and misogyny of the eighties, and eventually found feminism and the Social Geek Fallacies and understood what I was saying back in the day when I proclaimed that I wasn't like "all the other girls". I've grown up. I still love Real Genius because it's clever, it's smart, and it pointed the way to freedom from my hellhole of a childhood. But I know it has flaws. I'm sad about that, but nothing is perfect.
Feel free to file under "I had to ask....".
posted by knitcrazybooknut at 7:41 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
The idea behind the entire movie is that if you're smart enough, you are entitled: to the best job, with perks galore (and women are implied as one of those perks), to the best grades, to the best achievements. There are some Asian characters roaming the halls, but Jordan (the character) was based on an actual student who I believe is Asian American, but they just cut Michelle's hair into a bob. Gabe Jarrett was 15 at the time he played Mitch Taylor, and in the popcorn scenes, it seems like he's a little handsy with Michelle Meyrink, who was a solid 8 years older than him at the time.
There are so many scenes where Val Kilmer is really obnoxious about picking up girls and hitting on them and talking about hitting on them and just constantly on the make. That he's set up to be a sort of role model for Mitch is more than a little creepy. We're also supposed to hate Kent, the suck-up of the group, who did a whole bunch of labor for his professor and is betrayed at the last second, seemingly because he's following the rules. Oh. The Eighties. Argh.
I grew up soaking in the conformity and misogyny of the eighties, and eventually found feminism and the Social Geek Fallacies and understood what I was saying back in the day when I proclaimed that I wasn't like "all the other girls". I've grown up. I still love Real Genius because it's clever, it's smart, and it pointed the way to freedom from my hellhole of a childhood. But I know it has flaws. I'm sad about that, but nothing is perfect.
Feel free to file under "I had to ask....".
posted by knitcrazybooknut at 7:41 PM on July 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
No, I really appreciate it. 8) I love this kind of critique, even of things I continue to love.
posted by Deoridhe at 9:06 PM on July 6, 2016
posted by Deoridhe at 9:06 PM on July 6, 2016
Where is Sloane in all this? You know, Ferris Beuller's girlfriend? It seems like an honest accounting of John Hughes movies would have to not entirely overlook her.
posted by newdaddy at 10:40 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by newdaddy at 10:40 PM on July 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
"But that trope did provide me with my first inklings of "The movies are bullshit ..." irritation when I watched Grease with my friends in elementary school and thought it was damned ridiculous that the so-called happy ending happened only after the woman remade herself to the man's standards."
I'm not a Grease fan (I like Rizzo and "There Are Worse Things I Could Do" and ah...otherwise it's kinda weird), but to be fair, I seem to recall that Danny got dressed up in a letter sweater trying to act like a traditional white bread student at the start of that number. I am guessing the point of the whole thing was some kind of wardrobe Gift of the Magi in which each of them tried to dress in a way that would please the other (and of course, all bros watching who want boners).
John Hughes and teenage girls....my, that's uncomfortable to think about. And ewwww, Jake Ryan rape jokes. And that boner-meter thing in the sidebar with Cryer? Damn.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:23 PM on July 6, 2016
I'm not a Grease fan (I like Rizzo and "There Are Worse Things I Could Do" and ah...otherwise it's kinda weird), but to be fair, I seem to recall that Danny got dressed up in a letter sweater trying to act like a traditional white bread student at the start of that number. I am guessing the point of the whole thing was some kind of wardrobe Gift of the Magi in which each of them tried to dress in a way that would please the other (and of course, all bros watching who want boners).
John Hughes and teenage girls....my, that's uncomfortable to think about. And ewwww, Jake Ryan rape jokes. And that boner-meter thing in the sidebar with Cryer? Damn.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:23 PM on July 6, 2016
There was something in Asst. Principle Vernon's character that felt depressingly real to me the last time I watched "The Breakfast Club" (which was, consequently, the first time I watched the movie as an adult). Like, here's a guy who has essentially hit the apex of his professional career, but is fucking miserable and that misery colors everything he sees. Extrapolating, I'm guessing his personal life is also a hollow mess. Dude probably has no real friends. Assuming he has a wife, he's most likely estranged from her. Falls asleep on the couch each night in front of the TV while she sleeps upstairs in the bedroom. (I'm assuming he's hetero here just because it's the 80's and it's John Hughes.) This guy wanted something different out life than what he got and instead of being challenged by that to find something new, he has resigned to himself to a slow death by a thousand paper cuts of disappointment.
Maybe his encounter with Bender wakes up him a bit. Maybe he feels disgusted with himself for bullying that man-child. Maybe he goes home that night and climbs into bed with his wife and has a good cry (much her complete bafflement/astonishment). Maybe things are going be a little different now for Asst. Principle Vernon.
BRB, working on a screen play idea.
posted by tehjoel at 6:18 AM on July 7, 2016 [7 favorites]
Maybe his encounter with Bender wakes up him a bit. Maybe he feels disgusted with himself for bullying that man-child. Maybe he goes home that night and climbs into bed with his wife and has a good cry (much her complete bafflement/astonishment). Maybe things are going be a little different now for Asst. Principle Vernon.
BRB, working on a screen play idea.
posted by tehjoel at 6:18 AM on July 7, 2016 [7 favorites]
Real Genius has some sexuality issues, but show me a college campus where the residents DON'T have sexuality issues. Chris is the BMOC and knows it, and has the sexual directness of someone who's sure he's a major catch. Mitch is 15 and it shows, as he is stymied by conventional sexuality; bikini-clad beauticians and brainiac-hunting cougars are way out of his league and his impulse is to run and regroup. He connects with the one girl he knows who's equally oblivious to conventional beauty/dating/sexuality standards, and while she's receptive the scene doesn't fall immediately into ritual deflowering -- more like both of them will figure it out as they go.
If anything sexual is concerning in Real Genius, it's the whole concept of the "please impregnate me with your superbrain, #7/10" woman.
posted by delfin at 8:16 AM on July 7, 2016
If anything sexual is concerning in Real Genius, it's the whole concept of the "please impregnate me with your superbrain, #7/10" woman.
posted by delfin at 8:16 AM on July 7, 2016
This was the article that the earlier bagging of Ferris should have been. It really deftly gets at the contradictions underneath an ostensibly aware '80s oeuvre that really did have a huge commercial and critical impact, and really did change a lot of the ways that teen movies were handled.
I will say that trying to watch 16 Candles, Pretty in Pink and Say Anything with my wife has been really interesting — I never saw those ones growing up, only Ferris and BC of Hughes' teen movies — I couldn't make it through them, and it made me wonder what that's popular and era-defining now that's going to read as incredibly fucked-up in the future.
As for teen movies, I think Fast Times really does still hold up, though it's been a couple years since I've seen it. I rewatched it right after making the mistake of seeing Knocked Up in the theater and being absolutely baffled that no one seriously considered abortion — it felt weird to think that a movie some 20 years old at that point had been more realistic and less weirdly puritanical about pregnancy.
"I also remember watching The Breakfast Club around that age and also being disgusted by it. There is no cynic like the 13-year-old whose friends will no longer be seen at school talking to her because she's not "cool" enough; I knew that nothing had changed and Monday, all five of those people would pretend they didn't know one another. And I fumed, fumed, fumed at the premise that the real breakthrough was that they all concluded "Each one of us is a brain, and an athlete, a basket case, a princess and a criminal."
I was a weirdo nerd waxing to stoner in high school, and not only did Breakfast Club help me deal with that, I also had (and know others who had) moments where being thrown together with some people you might have thought were stereotypical assholes turned into longstanding friendships. The makeover thing was weird at the time; the idea that a detention or field trip or school project where you get stuck with people who surprise you and you grow — that happens, though not nearly as much as anyone would like despite being the default outcome for Hollywood movies about that shit.
posted by klangklangston at 4:22 PM on July 7, 2016
I will say that trying to watch 16 Candles, Pretty in Pink and Say Anything with my wife has been really interesting — I never saw those ones growing up, only Ferris and BC of Hughes' teen movies — I couldn't make it through them, and it made me wonder what that's popular and era-defining now that's going to read as incredibly fucked-up in the future.
As for teen movies, I think Fast Times really does still hold up, though it's been a couple years since I've seen it. I rewatched it right after making the mistake of seeing Knocked Up in the theater and being absolutely baffled that no one seriously considered abortion — it felt weird to think that a movie some 20 years old at that point had been more realistic and less weirdly puritanical about pregnancy.
"I also remember watching The Breakfast Club around that age and also being disgusted by it. There is no cynic like the 13-year-old whose friends will no longer be seen at school talking to her because she's not "cool" enough; I knew that nothing had changed and Monday, all five of those people would pretend they didn't know one another. And I fumed, fumed, fumed at the premise that the real breakthrough was that they all concluded "Each one of us is a brain, and an athlete, a basket case, a princess and a criminal."
I was a weirdo nerd waxing to stoner in high school, and not only did Breakfast Club help me deal with that, I also had (and know others who had) moments where being thrown together with some people you might have thought were stereotypical assholes turned into longstanding friendships. The makeover thing was weird at the time; the idea that a detention or field trip or school project where you get stuck with people who surprise you and you grow — that happens, though not nearly as much as anyone would like despite being the default outcome for Hollywood movies about that shit.
posted by klangklangston at 4:22 PM on July 7, 2016
It's from '79, but it holds up well, in a way: 'Over the Edge.'
posted by box at 5:32 PM on July 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 5:32 PM on July 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ferris Bueler is to Roadrunner as his sister is to Coyote. Which one of them a person roots for tells you everything you need to know about them.
posted by 3urypteris at 5:40 PM on July 7, 2016
posted by 3urypteris at 5:40 PM on July 7, 2016
Don't try to ruin this thread with a retread of that idiotic special pleading that assumes it's somehow gauche for someone to outsmart a person intent on murdering them.
posted by klangklangston at 8:51 PM on July 7, 2016
posted by klangklangston at 8:51 PM on July 7, 2016
What if I think Ferris is a shit and his sister needs to get over herself and I'm not rooting for either?
posted by nubs at 8:53 PM on July 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by nubs at 8:53 PM on July 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Then you're probably too old to look for role models in teen movies.
posted by klangklangston at 8:56 PM on July 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by klangklangston at 8:56 PM on July 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
TAKE THAT BACK I AM NOT A GROWN UP
(sobs uncontrollably)
posted by nubs at 9:11 PM on July 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
(sobs uncontrollably)
posted by nubs at 9:11 PM on July 7, 2016 [2 favorites]
There was something in Asst. Principle Vernon's character that felt depressingly real to me the last time I watched "The Breakfast Club"
Vernon is terrifying when you're a kid, because he starts as a familiar, kind of ridiculous authority figure but as the movie goes on we see that he is not playing by the grown-up rules and he's actually dangerous. He's a sadistic bully, with all the power of an adult.
Then you grow up and he's still a scary SOB, but he also becomes kind of pitiful. How miserable does a man have to be, to get off on frightening a teenage boy like that?
Vernon definitely fits that thing about how when you grow up, your heart dies. The janitor doesn't seem like he's lost his heart, but he's definitely lost hope. Both guys are pretty sad representatives of adulthood.
I was John Bender for a couple of years in my teens. I wasn't trying to ape the guy, but looking back I can see that was totally me, with the comebacks and the flannel and the knife in my pocket and the stupid hair in my face. (Well, I was kind of the nerd and the weird girl too. But I sure wasn't the jock or the princess.) I grew up to be a drag queen, among other things. My heart didn't die. Sometimes I kind of wish it would already.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 10:15 PM on July 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
Vernon is terrifying when you're a kid, because he starts as a familiar, kind of ridiculous authority figure but as the movie goes on we see that he is not playing by the grown-up rules and he's actually dangerous. He's a sadistic bully, with all the power of an adult.
Then you grow up and he's still a scary SOB, but he also becomes kind of pitiful. How miserable does a man have to be, to get off on frightening a teenage boy like that?
Vernon definitely fits that thing about how when you grow up, your heart dies. The janitor doesn't seem like he's lost his heart, but he's definitely lost hope. Both guys are pretty sad representatives of adulthood.
I was John Bender for a couple of years in my teens. I wasn't trying to ape the guy, but looking back I can see that was totally me, with the comebacks and the flannel and the knife in my pocket and the stupid hair in my face. (Well, I was kind of the nerd and the weird girl too. But I sure wasn't the jock or the princess.) I grew up to be a drag queen, among other things. My heart didn't die. Sometimes I kind of wish it would already.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 10:15 PM on July 7, 2016 [4 favorites]
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No kiddin'. I watched this as a teenager and watched it again on TV. It was interesting (when I saw it recently) how one part of me was all "I sure hope my boys don't act this way" and one part was sort of disinterestedly flabbergasted at how the values being celebrated were just exactly those condemned now. Something to offend everyone, really.
I've recently heard Molly Ringwald on a few podcasts (I think she's publicizing a book) and really like her - I admire how she's built a genuine life after such celebrity. It's tough to grow up with a "mentor" like John Hughes seems to have been.
posted by randomkeystrike at 12:30 PM on July 6, 2016 [5 favorites]