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July 15, 2016 3:05 PM   Subscribe

 
Went to the article looking for a mention of Pet Shop Boys' West End Girls (1984), left disappointed.
posted by hippybear at 3:12 PM on July 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


It's a little light on UK entries - no PWEI, nobody from the Bristol scene.
posted by Artw at 3:13 PM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


No mention of the fact that the Beastie Boys continued to be popular & respected rappers & multi-genre musicians for the next 30 years. It really bums me out when they show up on these lists as one hit wonders.
posted by bleep at 3:19 PM on July 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


I think in general people are fairly aware of that.
posted by Artw at 3:28 PM on July 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


Okay I read that as a history of White Papers. Thought it was a bit esoteric for MTv but I recall they don't play much music anymore anyway .... Still interesting history I didn't know.
posted by tilde at 3:29 PM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


I notice MTV has no corresponding article "A condensed history of women rappers." Why not? It could even start with the same event, Blondie's "Rapture."

Although like hippybear and Artw have pointed out, it'll likely be heavily Salt-and-Pepaed and light on the Neneh Cherry and Yaa Kid K.
posted by infinitewindow at 3:29 PM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm actually rather fond of Rapture, dumb little rap segment and all. It's undoubtedly the originator of other, far far worse dumb little rap segments in worse songs though.
posted by Artw at 3:36 PM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


Vanilla Ice, a.k.a. Robert Van Winkle, sets white people back 1,000 years by engaging in the most egregious act of perpetration since The Donation of Constantine.

I admit I laughed.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:36 PM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


What, no "White and Nerdy"!?
posted by J.K. Seazer at 3:42 PM on July 15, 2016


My favorite thing about white rappers is that white rappers are only ever allowed to beef with other white rappers, and since they're so thin on the ground, any time that two white rappers exist concurrently, they are contractually required to beef.

Why are you two fighting? Oh, you're both white rappers, and you are forbidden from fighting anyone else! Wonderful!

Also, there was an unforgivable lack of El-P in that history.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 3:46 PM on July 15, 2016 [20 favorites]


It also needs Holiday Rap (two Dutch guys doing a surprisingly passable rap over Madonna's “Holiday” circa 1985).
posted by acb at 3:47 PM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


I felt that, leaving all else aside, I could totally get behind the Glasses On The End of the Nose Movement.

Seriously, though, I did not realize that white people charted first with rap. That seems pretty unfair. I wasn't really aware of rap until my mid-teens, so right around all the 1990-ish "rap music - so sexually explicit, it must be banned!" pearl clutching. And growing up in a conservative town as I did, that was basically all I knew about it until much later.

I just rewatched Downtown 81 a couple of weeks ago - that's the one with Basquiat in it, and he is really fun to watch - and it was, on the one hand, really interesting to see the few little intervals where there's early rap, and on the other really illustrative of how creepy and exploitative the white art scene was toward Black people.

...Although actually in 1992 I did attend, as a field trip for my honors french class, a Moliere production of The Miser with rap interludes by white French performers. They were horrifying and I remember some of them to this day. If nothing else, when I heard actual rap music later the contrast between the two was an instant illustration of what "flow" means. For most of my life, "white people rapping" has meant "white people who aren't astute enough to understand that a thing is difficult and therefore execute an unconscious parody version that makes you want to cry".
posted by Frowner at 3:48 PM on July 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


Seriously, though, I did not realize that white people charted first with rap. That seems pretty unfair

History is written by the victors. The charts are compiled by the dominant class.
posted by acb at 3:50 PM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


It also needs Holiday Rap (two Dutch guys doing a surprisingly passable rap over Madonna's “Holiday” circa 1985).

OMG, it was more like 1986, because it was a hit in Germany when I was there as an exchange student. I even have a 45 of that song because I was so.... amazed.
posted by hippybear at 3:58 PM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Seriously, though, I did not realize that white people charted first with rap.

Rappers Delight peaked at 36 on the Billboard chart in 1979.
posted by Artw at 3:58 PM on July 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Seriously, though, I did not realize that white people charted first with rap. That seems pretty unfair. I wasn't really aware of rap until my mid-teens, so right around all the 1990-ish "rap music - so sexually explicit, it must be banned!" pearl clutching. And growing up in a conservative town as I did, that was basically all I knew about it until much later.

It is hard to recollect now, but in 1989-1990, Public Enemy was greeted with the same alarm by the mainstream that the prospect of turning executions into a reality show might now.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:58 PM on July 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


in 1989-1990, Public Enemy was greeted with the same alarm by the mainstream

And yet, I saw Public Enemy open for U2's ZooTV tour in 1991.
posted by hippybear at 3:59 PM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


Where's Aerosmith?!
posted by a lungful of dragon at 4:01 PM on July 15, 2016


Behind the wall eternally dividing rock and rap.

(Also they mostly just yell on that track)
posted by Artw at 4:03 PM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


The article wasn't a total loss. Had never heard of the Donation of Constantine.
posted by gwint at 4:19 PM on July 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


Favorited solely for the title.

(Didn't see any mention of Arch Stanton in the article, though.)
posted by McCoy Pauley at 4:24 PM on July 15, 2016


Snow is the reason the Juno Awards have a reggae category.
posted by themanwho at 4:35 PM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


Condensed is right. The funny part for me is that I must have listened to Paul Revere a good 20 times before I really stopped to consider that the Beastie Boys were white. Back then most of the time you heard the music before you saw it. Anything could get play if it sounded dope.

I rocked the shit out of the Cactus Cas/ette. I hated House of Pain because I felt like they ripped off Kriss Kross, but by the time the Judgement Night and Jerky Boys soundtracks came out, I loved 'em. And then Everlast did that whole blues thing.

I obviously love the futuristic dystopic pants off El-P, but I do feel like he's never hit the main-mainstream.

I first heard G-Eazy on "Pay for You" and to this day I probably can't remember which one he is, but the flows are pretty good regardless.

If anybody wants to share their underrated, underappreciated or unknown white rappers, I'd love to listen.
posted by cashman at 4:49 PM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Rock et Belles Oreilles' Ça rend rap, a comedy song, sucked much less than what passed for rap (usually by white people) in Quebec at the time (1984).
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 5:04 PM on July 15, 2016


Came for the Snow, was not disappointed. Although I did not know that he "led that life".
posted by GuyZero at 5:04 PM on July 15, 2016


Let's not forget the good folks at Epic Rap Battles.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 5:31 PM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


No Kid Rock, no Sage Francis, no M.I.A.

Kinda suspect in his condensing.

(I once shared a stage with Sage Francis. It was a poetry slam. I did oddball Dr. Seuss-meets-P.K. Dick abstract stuff, and he went out of his way to take a full minute and a half of his three minutes to diss my poem and its performance. Awesome.)
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:34 PM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


My list of good mostly unknown white rappers/songs: GDP, IDE, Swollen Members, Hilltop Hoods, Macromantics, @Peace.

Along the way I learned Project Wyze is Moroccan, Wiki from Ratking has a Puerto Rican father and an Irish mom, and that Siah (Siah and Yeshua DapoED) is Jewish.

Eyedea (R.I.P.) should have been included in the article, since he was a freestyle god, probably second only to Supernat. Yelawolf was hot for like .5 seconds.
posted by cashman at 5:37 PM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Looks like some people done forgot about Lord Buckley...
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 5:38 PM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


If anybody wants to share their underrated, underappreciated or unknown white rappers, I'd love to listen.

This is like my batsignal

Ok first: Mc Paul Barman. That's like waaaay top of the list. Though you will have to step over some gross sex lines, he's legit one of the illest lyricists ever.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:38 PM on July 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


Ok first: Mc Paul Barman.

Me and you are going to have to have the talk, aren't we. I seriously have to meet you in person because I feel like you'd be one of my best friends and I'd give you a really hard time about some of your hip hop choices!
posted by cashman at 5:40 PM on July 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


Snow hasn't won the Reggae Juno since except with his first album, FWIW.

There's also the matter of whether or not Latino artists are "white" or not; if they are, you'd want to mention Gerardo with "Rico Suave" (choice quote: My only addiction has to do with the female species/I eat 'em raw like sushi) and Cypress Hill.
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 5:40 PM on July 15, 2016


I go hard for Why? And I don't give a shit. Emo rap didn't have to be a thing but it is so there.

Next up: Mc 900 Ft Jesus. He's not a rapper per se, he's more like "what if Cake had one member and never sings" but his beats are tighter than a side pony tail on a Heather.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:41 PM on July 15, 2016 [11 favorites]


no M.I.A.

She's Tamil.
posted by maxsparber at 5:42 PM on July 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


Cashman: 😇 how can you diss the Dandy voice that gets the most anti choice grannies panties moist?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:43 PM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'm giving you the biggest noogie, I swear.
posted by cashman at 5:45 PM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


If you're ever in town cashman we should go to the finest hip hop club in Boston! 😑
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:45 PM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Kitty Pryde is definitely better than the beastie boys. Just fair warning I did attain a yellow belt in Karate in 1988 in case anyone wants to fight me.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:49 PM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


So, im just gonna say: Slug, Eyedea, Aesop Rock, Cage, Necro, Ill Bill, El-P, Sage, Apathy, EsotericVinnie Paz, Brother Ali, Buck 65, newer guys like Wildcard and the other various demigodz knockoffs and subisidaries.
That's before getting into people without quite as much cred/longevity or are a little too gimmicky/nerdcore (bleh) like Bahrman, MC Chris, MC++.

because, seriously, El-P has nas and bernie Sanders introduce them at coachella, how long was Bubba Sparx even a thing?
posted by lkc at 5:52 PM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Buck 65 had some good stuff too especially when he embraced being a odd Canadian hillbilly.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:54 PM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


No Bubba Sparxxx? Damned shame.
posted by jonmc at 5:58 PM on July 15, 2016


The key to being a good white rapper is: have skills (of course) but also have a thing. Have a history that is something. Have problems. Have a personality. Have emotions. Don't pretend to be hard if you're not or nerdy if you're not or etc.

This is also the key to being a regular rapper imo.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:59 PM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


No, the article mentions him.
posted by lkc at 5:59 PM on July 15, 2016


Bubba Sparxx is in the article. And is pretty good in hindsight. Though at the time he seemed like a gimmick he was actually pretty much just that guy, and being refreshingly honest.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:01 PM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh, sorry, I flaked. I (and a lot of other hip-hop fans I know) consider him underrated. FWIW. That "See you coming round" song is excellent.
posted by jonmc at 6:01 PM on July 15, 2016


Or the sheer trainwreck of the White Girl Mob and the inexplicable continuing career of its lone survivor: lil debbie.
posted by lkc at 6:02 PM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Also this was a great mixed race reggae-hip hop one shot.
posted by jonmc at 6:09 PM on July 15, 2016


Every list must necessarily pick and choose their points, particularly one that admits up front to being condensed. The quick gloss over the early/mid-2000s leaves out some key players, particularly those in the (Minneapolis based) Rhymesayers crew, like:

- Sage Francis, sample track "Escape Artist" (which can maybe not coincidentally be seen as commentary on the explosion of hip-hop's popularity)

- Brother Ali, who is so white he's albino. Sample track, "Truth Is," though it should be noted that his albinism led to some confusion over his race early in his career. His breakthrough track, "Shadows on the Sun," is particularly ambiguous on this point (though up front on him being Muslim)..

- Atmosphere. Yeah, yeah, Slug is mixed race, but Ant is totes white, and they really don't fit into the mainstream (i.e., Black) rap of the time and are the founders of the largely white Rhymesayers. Sample track, "God Loves Ugly."

- There's also Aesop Rock, who is basically a genre unto himself, and holds the distinction of having the largest vocabulary in hip-hop. Sample tracks from this period (and two songs on endless repeat on my pre-iPod MP3 player) and the paired "Daylight/Nightlight."

Also, I'm going to totally hype Kno, of Cunninglynguists. I think he's always been the weakest rapper in that crew, but that's more because he gets overshadowed by Deacon and Natti (and Mr. SOS early on). He's an undisputed dope producer though and no slouch at the rhymes. Sample track, "La Petit Mort."

I also want to shout out his collaboration producing for Sadistik (another white rapper!) on the Phantom Limbs EP, so sample track on that would be "To Be In Love."

Seriously, I cannot recommend Kno enough; anything he touches is beautiful.

Wait, did somebody say female rappers? Let's go back to Minneapolis and listen to some Dessa (part of Doomtree). Her entire album Parts of Speech is amazing from start to finish, but I really really really like this live version of "Mineshaft." Special mention to "Dixon's Girl." (Dessa is, in general, fantastic live.)

I feel like I should put a coda on this, but as someone who has spent the majority of their life in Atlanta, I find the inclusion of white rappers to be wholly unremarkable. Like other novel and surging musical genres, hip-hop attracted a lot of people. Since this country is still majority white, it makes sense that white kids would find themselves drawn to it. There's probably a whole other article to be written about Korean b-boys and Swedish rappers, but whatever. Hip hop is global, and the inclusion of talented musicians of all races in the genre speaks to its power, even if it strays from the original base of party music of marginalized, urban, black young people. I've been in and party to too many ciphers of people just revelling in the art of rap with no regards to get hung up on whether they're a white kid from the suburbs. You come real, you get to stay.

Anyways, as a final note, here's some friends of mine, Chapter 13 (a black and a white rapper) doing a guest spot with a black funk/hip-hop group, "Gold Chains."
posted by Panjandrum at 6:12 PM on July 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


What do yall know about Tim Fite though?

Also, you know who we forgot? This dude. We should all feel completely ashamed.
posted by cashman at 6:12 PM on July 15, 2016


There's also Aesop Rock, who is basically a genre unto himself, and holds the distinction of having the largest vocabulary in hip-hop.

No. I remember this being a thing that was talked about when that got posted to the blue. Just no. Man, I am one cranky guy, but no.
posted by cashman at 6:16 PM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I was curious to see whether DC Talk would get a mention. They're an interesting case of a band featuring a white rapper and being probably the most popular Christian band of the 90s.
posted by beau jackson at 6:16 PM on July 15, 2016


No. I remember this being a thing that was talked about when that got posted to the blue. Just no. Man, I am one cranky guy, but no.

To clarify, I'm not putting this forward as some sort of peer-reviewed, yes-you-need-to-vaccinate-your-kids, proof. It's just another nod towards the fact that Aesop Rock is weird, you know?
posted by Panjandrum at 6:19 PM on July 15, 2016


Cashman we can definitely unite in distaste for backpack word salad not-funky mid00s conscious junx.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:19 PM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm not putting this forward as some sort of peer-reviewed, yes-you-need-to-vaccinate-your-kids, proof.

Why not? I can't imagine there are enough scholarly hip hop journals, and I'm sure we could all be on the review board. Aesop Rock is dope. And I only listen to a small fraction of what's he's done.
posted by cashman at 6:22 PM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


What I'm getting from this is that we need to vaccinate our kids against white rap?

Very confused at the moment.
posted by hippybear at 6:23 PM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Thanks to Spotify, I'm getting into a survey of Blondie and they're surprisingly eclectic and experimental. Harry appears to approach sexuality with much the same cynicism that Devo uses to tear apart capitalist pop. "In the Flesh" could be a 60s Motown classic turned almost pornographic by Harry's delivery of the title line.

Rapture is still a really weird song. So I'm more willing to chalk it up to the band's voracious experimentation than parody ala Dangerfield or bandwagon-jumping which might be the case for some performers on the list.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 6:24 PM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Why not?

Because the nerdy side of me would still want to compare the number of unique words to word use vs. frequency in general population use. And I also recognize that MORE WORDS does not necessarily equal BETTER MUSIC. I had a whole sub-group of friends who took Aesop and Dose One's "Drawbridge" as the temple for how music should sounds. If we're going to diverge into grousing about obscure, atonal, mumblerap, I am right there with you (though I still like both Aesop, Dose One, and "Drawbridge").
posted by Panjandrum at 6:28 PM on July 15, 2016


Just listen to Rapture a few more times and it'll dawn on you that every other Blondie song is to some other good song what Rapture is to Rappers Delight.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:29 PM on July 15, 2016


No Kish? CanCon people dropping the ball there.
posted by mhoye at 6:35 PM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Also, there was an unforgivable lack of El-P in that history.

See also: El-P cohort Despot, especially the Ratatat-produced House of Bricks
posted by joechip at 6:58 PM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]




Not sure why the Streets don't count. Do you have to rap in American to be a rapper?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:01 PM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


(though I still like both Aesop, Dose One, and "Drawbridge")

Yeah, I left out most of Anticon since I was typing from my phone, but Dose certainly has had an interesting career.

Also, if MTV still played music, I'm sure they would have had something to do with the Rise of Iggy Azalea, Yelawolf is/was signed with Eminem's label and had a bit of a splash, though I'm not really into either of them.

Action Bronson has been all over the place the last several years, one Album produced by alchemist who did a rap (as opposed to just him producing) album not too long ago with Evidence from Dilated Peoples.

Sons of Ibrahim was an Easy-E signed group contemporary with Bone Thugs and that Will.I.Am/Apl.De.Ap group that eventually became Black Eyed Peas.
The L.A. scene had whole mixed bag of people in there for a while, some dudes from the Shapeshifters, Ryu from Styles of Beyond, LMNO from the Visionaries, The leader of Prose&Concepts (Seattle). Oatie Kato of the Goats (shut up, their first album is good!). Cunninglynguists were mentioned, but also Swollen Members, the Sebutones.

And that's before getting into how involved and influential White and Asian people have been as DJ's and producers. Yknow, like QBert, Krush, Honda, Shadow, Cut Chemist, Kutmasta Kurt. A lot of graffiti people, too, if you're going for the whole "4 Elements" thing.

And, yknow, Dinosaur Burps
posted by lkc at 7:07 PM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Do you have to rap in American to be a rapper?

Maybe that's why the article left out Iggy Azalea.
posted by lkc at 7:11 PM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Do you have to rap in American to be a rapper?

One of my favorite rap artists rap in French Brittany Celtic. Mostly because their video was shot with them riding around in a car similar to one I owned at the time - a big-ass Cadillac.

And that's three, well, four, so now I feel bad. I'm out until tomorrow.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:15 PM on July 15, 2016


Nah.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:15 PM on July 15, 2016




Do you have to rap in American to be a rapper?

I'm just going to leave this here.

I could probably apologize for hours from now when you're still repeating the refrain, but I shan't.
posted by cashman at 7:48 PM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


hi I'm just here to remind everyone of the white girl rap travesty that was Northern State because it's my responsibility as another white girl from Long Island to remember the pain we as a group have inflicted on others, peace out.

Also I once interviewed MC Paul Barman for a job back when I was an editor and he straight lied his way through the whole thing; it was amazing to behold.
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 8:13 PM on July 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Also I once interviewed MC Paul Barman for a job back when I was an editor and he straight lied his way through the whole thing; it was amazing to behold.

I want to hear this story
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:20 PM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


Re: Paul Barman, MeMail me if you are interested and I'll tell you! It happened in like 2005, though, so it is an old story.
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 8:30 PM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


you guys....you guys we forgot mac miller.
posted by cashman at 8:36 PM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


My favorite thing about white rappers is that white rappers are only ever allowed to beef with other white rappers.

Like when Copywrite dissed Asher Roth for some reason?

(Also Esoteric and Vast Aire went after each other in the great nerd rap wars of 2000.)
posted by lkc at 8:40 PM on July 15, 2016


well this is embarrassing
posted by beerperson at 8:49 PM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


well this is embarrassing

there's always next year's list, just keep getting that demo out there
posted by Krom Tatman at 8:52 PM on July 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


It's literally called "a condensed history," it's not going to include non-banging experimentalists who had very little influence on the overall development of the genre or one-hit wonders from the UK who were really closer to spoken word artists anyway.

Also, that Lestat joke was legit hilarious.
posted by No-sword at 8:53 PM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


am i the only one who likes brooke candy? of course, i'm also shitty enough to have liked white girl mob before all the weird explicit racism and downward spiral of their whole thing. also, yeah, kitty although i don't know if she even identifies as a rapper anymore, but i could be wrong about that.

i of course have to give a nod towards scroobius pip who is a lot more than 'thou shalt always kill/just a band' (and fuck yeah to the streets!).

and to combine white female rappers that divide rap fans but i love to listen to and overlooked british rappers - what about lady sovereign?
posted by nadawi at 8:57 PM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


this is not me nitpicking the list - just listing stuff that i listen to that fits the parameters
posted by nadawi at 8:58 PM on July 15, 2016


I'm nitpicking the list when I say that Pet Shop Boys should have been included. Even for a "condensed history" that song was pretty much history being made right there.
posted by hippybear at 9:01 PM on July 15, 2016


i mean, carvell wallace's tweet announcing the piece makes me think it's better if your faves were left off : I got to spend some time roasting white rappers which in a week like this felt cathartic.
posted by nadawi at 9:06 PM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Mod note: Sorry folks, a few comments deleted re someone's personal idea of what other people consider white in the US. Let's try to rerail.
posted by taz (staff) at 9:53 PM on July 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'm nitpicking the list when I say that Pet Shop Boys should have been included. Even for a "condensed history" that song was pretty much history being made right there.

I guess the problem is that thematically speaking E17's cover of that song would fit on the list much better — and yet E17 are obviously not worth mentioning in a condensed history. Just another example of the Pet Shop Boys being undone by cosy paradox.
posted by No-sword at 10:12 PM on July 15, 2016


It's a history of white rappers who had hits on the charts. If PSB did it first and it was a hit, why would a cover fit better? Unless it's just all US-centric, as it appears to be anyway?
posted by hippybear at 10:18 PM on July 15, 2016


Well, that was really just a joke, but to dissect it: because East 17 were marketed themselves as a hip-hop boy band, and would fit right in between Marky Mark and Limp Bizkit in the pre-Eminem 90s wasteland Wallace gleefully roasts.

(That said, given how much I enjoy this article I'm sure I'd really enjoy a similarly irreverent followup in which Wallace explains why he left out the Pet Shop Boys, El-P, etc.)
posted by No-sword at 11:07 PM on July 15, 2016


Oh, American white rappers. With no mentions of people like Die Fantastischen Vier, Outlandish (for values of "white" that include Northern African or Latino) or Violadores del Verso (or La Mala Rodríguez) it's rather local.
posted by sukeban at 1:10 AM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh, and Manu Chao (French born of Spanish exiled parents).
posted by sukeban at 1:21 AM on July 16, 2016


What this list is missing most from outside US is Goldie Lookin Chain.
posted by ikalliom at 1:25 AM on July 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


Also, IAM representing France.
posted by sukeban at 1:35 AM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Edan! Edan! "Beauty and the Beat" is magnificent. "Fumbling Over Words that Rhyme" is a history lesson for the ages!
posted by soundofsuburbia at 1:59 AM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Was looking for Das Me but did not find it, being too tired to find something on Youtube is a bad sign.

Rubber Band Stacks


Not sure how her music gets labeled but whatever, throwing her in here anyway. Love her stuff.

Make Me Fade

FML

As an aside, West End Girls is one of those songs I have heard over and over my entire life and still have yet to tire of it. Not many songs that don't start irritating me at some point.

And just to troll.. (I love his covers just wanted an excuse to link him, although even he can not save that song)
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 2:50 AM on July 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


Looks like some people done forgot about Lord Buckley...

oh, yeah...'The Bad-Rapping of the Marquis de Sade (King of Bad Cats)' (1969) is probably the track that gave name to the genre, tho I'm pretty sure he uses the word 'rap' in at least one earlier track dating back into the 50s where it all blurs into the beat movement and that's your history lesson for tonight now go listen to the train. It is epic.
posted by sexyrobot at 4:01 AM on July 16, 2016


OK, maybe they didn't chart, but this is some EARLY white rap:

Adam and the Ants - "Ant Rap" (1981)
posted by Socky McSockface at 4:16 AM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


If we're going to talk about Lord Buckley, then we also need to talk about the talkin' songs in country and folk. But I don't think article was looking at proto-rap.
posted by maxsparber at 4:30 AM on July 16, 2016


No mention of how seemingly every other new-country-music singer/studmuffin has to include a rap break in their songs? That's wack, y'all.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:09 AM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Beck.
posted by PHINC at 5:19 AM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


I would have included Teena Marie for her 1981 embrace of the genre on her 4th album and her enduring influence. But then I realized the extent to which her music transcended race and realized it would probably be more of a slight.
posted by euphorb at 6:38 AM on July 16, 2016


> It's a history of white rappers who had hits on the charts.

It's a list of setups and punchlines, each with a date attached. What it isn't -- despite the title -- is a historical retrospective. I mean, the second entry is Rappin' Rodney.

If your favorite band isn't in the story, you'd be equally justified to feel either angry or relieved.
posted by ardgedee at 6:53 AM on July 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


Anyone remember Senser from the mid-'90s? UK band, spanned the range between rap and metal, rather than just picking a point on the line and sticking there. I'm going to describe them as "PWEI with Middle Eastern influences" even though that's a criminally poor description. They did a gender-flipped cover version of "She Watch Channel Zero" amongst other things. They were (and on re-listen are) pretty OK.
posted by comealongpole at 7:19 AM on July 16, 2016


When I woke up this morning I remembered that this bit of white rap came out in 1962.
posted by hippybear at 8:04 AM on July 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


I keep periodically tossing around the idea of an FPP about Snow and how crazy his story is.
posted by 256 at 8:10 AM on July 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


Yeah, seriously how can they leave out Beck?
posted by Cookiebastard at 9:02 AM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


I first heard G-Eazy on "Pay for You" and to this day I probably can't remember which one he is, but the flows are pretty good regardless.

I'd never heard of him until I caught You Got Me very late at night on the radio. He seems to have the style down at least.

Do you have to rap in American to be a rapper?

Maybe that's why the article left out Iggy Azalea.

Oh for sure that's why they left her out. The "in American" part versus the "rap" part.
posted by fuse theorem at 10:04 AM on July 16, 2016


Charlie Daniels charted real good, real early.
posted by Fupped Duck at 10:43 AM on July 16, 2016


I'm partial to Ani DiFranco.
posted by spbmp at 11:58 AM on July 16, 2016


My two favourite white Canadian rappers who are still actively touring are Classified and Wordburglar.

Classified is nearly an indie musician who happens to rap - thematically it's not exactly the streets of south-central but he's a competent rapper. Wordburglar is probably the least serious rapper ever but I have to admit I like his rhymes a lot.
posted by GuyZero at 12:23 PM on July 16, 2016


Ctrl-f 'Wham Rap.'

Huh.
posted by box at 12:58 PM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


On the real, kinda shocked nobody's mentioned R.A. the Rugged Man yet.
posted by box at 1:04 PM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


i like all the links in this thread, but i feel like y'all are missing the point and the fun of this piece
posted by eustatic at 1:13 PM on July 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


this is more an article making fun / looking at and laughing at whiteness within hip hop, from a mostly new york perspective.. I mean there's a reason Vanilla Ice is being debated in the hot 97 interview
posted by eustatic at 1:18 PM on July 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


I slap the Apple out of your Macintosh
And then I slap the Mac Miller out of your Asher Roth
And then I walk into the Apple Store
And smack the Marshall Mathers out your motherfucking Macklemore
Kool A.D. is the best white rapper, who's asking and why you asking for?
I'm rapping awesome, I slap the Bubba Sparxxx out your Action Bronson
posted by valrus at 1:19 PM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


also, new york can't understand the gulf south, which is why it's such a thing for beyonce to claim to be a 'texas bama'; you think they are even paying attention to london? mullumbimby?
posted by eustatic at 1:35 PM on July 16, 2016


wait, are you saying new york is confused by texas bama or that beyonce is wrong in her claim?
posted by nadawi at 1:55 PM on July 16, 2016


I think new york thinks you are not supposed to be a texas bama when you're the queen. it's like a mystery wrapped in an enigma
posted by eustatic at 2:39 PM on July 16, 2016


so, the first thing
posted by eustatic at 2:40 PM on July 16, 2016


ahh ok. thanks!
posted by nadawi at 4:05 PM on July 16, 2016


I read the article mostly to ensure that 3rd Bass got their dues. Pleased to see that they did. Not only did they release The Cactus Album which I still love, they also mentored MF Doom and Subroc and got them started in the music industry.
posted by foobaz at 9:40 PM on July 16, 2016


eustatic, I think the punchline to this piece is great, too.

But thankfully we've discussed the most discussable part of the story rather than that. I don't have a great deal to add to that. Except to say that it was entirely correct to leave The Streets out of the timeline, for purely musical reasons.

And not because he went to the (posher than mine, but both were extremely white) school my school was beefing with (although he was two school years below me).
posted by ambrosen at 8:31 AM on July 17, 2016


they also mentored MF Doom and Subroc and got them started in the music industry.

Serch also helped Nas sign and put together illmatic on his label, after putting him in his video debut on Back to the Grill from his first solo album. Also, Cage debuted back in 1993 with Pete Nice's solo album. So even their breakup set quite a few things in motion.
posted by lkc at 3:45 PM on July 17, 2016


I just woke up days later going STEREO MCS and had to report back to this thread. Ok that's it. That's all the relevant white rappers.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:31 PM on July 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


cashman: "Hilltop Hoods"

To this day I am still very happy that you can see my old apartment in the film clip to The Hard Road. It's the blue building at about 1:40. For the Adelaideans - yes, he is in fact walking south along Gilbert place. Away from the Pancake Kitchen, presumably. It's true that Adelaide can be a hard city in its own way given the slow decline of South Australian manufacturing. HH aren't coming from nowhere - though they did come out of Blackwood so frankly I suspect they're hippies - but even so it's very suburban looking place and I do feel very sorry for the poor bugger given the job of trying to put that film clip together.
posted by mixing at 11:18 AM on July 18, 2016


Alright, I'll admit it, as an '80s kid I used to collect novelty singles (and nothing else, certainly nothing by the one and only Cliff Richard). Comedian Tony Hawks (no, not that one) was part of the group Morris Minor and The Majors. Essentially one-hit wonders, their song Stutter Rap is a decent view of how the early Beastie Boys were viewed in the UK, as well as having a few contemporary shout-outs. Well, Chaka Khan's in there.

(Since the song is also kind of dickish about people with speech impediments, here is The Scatman on general principle, because everyone stutters one way or the other).

Whilst I'm on the novelty kick here's the 12" version of Kenny Everett's Snot Rap. I'll spare us all any Roland Rat, eyyyy!
posted by comealongpole at 5:41 PM on July 18, 2016


Oh, I don't know if we're quite done yet. I don't think all of these people are relevant, but some of them are: Blood of Abraham. Princess Superstar. There are a some more battle cats, we probably need at least one--I'll let Iron Solomon and Mac Lethal settle it among themselves. Logic seems to be coming up. And, for a brief shining moment between when 'Dear El-P' was released and when 'Linda Tripp' was released, Sole.
posted by box at 3:59 AM on July 19, 2016


Well because I have nothing better to do I put these suggestions into the most underwhelming Spotify playlist ever of the best tracks in my opinion by white rappers (no Eminem). But I did learn some important stuff.

1. White people in hip hop, once released from the necessity of feeling embarrassed by being white (circa 1999), liked to talk a lot about how intelligent their rhymes are and how dumb all other rappers are. There was a period where they threw a bunch of science fiction around without the skills of someone like MF Doom to make it sound meaningful. Sometimes it was fun or poetic but often it was just soulless pretension if not outright mockery of the culture.

2. Saying sexist and homophobic stuff in rap lyrics is complicated, especially when a rapper (say, MF Doom the GOAT) is playing a character, or at least a heightened version of themselves who says fucked up shit and has lived a fucked up life. Eminem arguably gets away with it because his subject is always himself, his dissociation, his sins, his fractured identity due to his damaged background, and I guess in some ways that borrows (or appropriates) the excuse black rappers have for being so negative and messed up towards women and gays in their art. Point being, that is all a very complex and outside my pay-grade subject which has nothing to do with white boy rappers doing songs called "Consensual Rape" and dropping the F-word every single track to show how hard they are. No, shut up please, delete your discography.

3. For some reason I give Necro and Mickey Avalon a pass there though, just because their commitment is irrefutable? IDK.

3. I am a huge POS for not bringing this up before: there are a lot of really good white women that rap, including Kate Tempest who I have posted about before, and I didn't think of them as white rappers because my brain sucks and I suck. Please check out the really good tracks on here by Kate and Kitty and K-slay and V-nasty and Glavyn and O Blimey. Not Rapture, guaranteed.

3. MC Paul Barman is the best.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:55 PM on July 20, 2016


3.1 Ever since something (Asher Roth? Lonely Island? I don't know whose fault it is) there is a set of Party-pop rapper white boys like Hoodie Allen and Chris Webby and that horrible thing with the numbers in their name (3OH!3?+?) that really really shouldn't exist. They aren't offensive by intent but they have WAAAY less reason to exist than lggy and get NO shit from the regular HH community. Macklemore isn't good but at least he's trying. Jury's still out on 21 Pilots.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:01 PM on July 20, 2016


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