28 Pages
July 15, 2016 3:56 PM Subscribe
NYT: Congress Releases Secret 9/11 Document Detailing Possible Saudi Ties to Al Qaeda
NBC: Secret 28 Pages of 9/11 Report Released, Hold No Proof of Saudi Link
The 28-page document (.pdf) is a wide-ranging catalog of possible links between Saudi officials and Qaeda operatives. It details contacts that Saudi operatives in Southern California had with the hijackers and describes the discovery of a telephone number in a Qaeda operative’s phone book that was traced to a corporation managing a Colorado home of Prince Bandar bin Sultan, then the Saudi ambassador to Washington.
NBC: Secret 28 Pages of 9/11 Report Released, Hold No Proof of Saudi Link
Most of the narrative in the 28 pages describing connections between the 9/11 hijackers and Saudi government ties is familiar, because the vast majority of the information has been released through other channels.Charlie Pierce: What We Know from the 28 Pages
For example, the report speculates that a U.S. resident named Omar al Bayoumi may have been a Saudi intelligence agent. He had extensive contacts with Saudi officials and received money from a Saudi defense contractor.
Actually, the 28 pages themselves say a lot more than that.NY Daily News: Congress releases classified info naming Saudi nationals suspected of helping terrorists before 9/11 attack
They say that the FBI has information that al-Bayoumi provided "substantial assistance" to the two hijackers. Then there's Osama Bassman, a friend of al-Bayoumi's who also helped the same two hijackers and who the FBI suspected had connections not only with Saudi intelligence, but also with Osama bin Laden, the Eritean Islamic Jihad, and with Omar Abdel-Rahman, the blind sheikh who is currently enjoying the government's hospitality at the SuperMax in Colorado.
Among the revelations in the 28 pages are details about Omar al-Bayoumi, a Saudi national who helped two of the hijackers in California.Politico: Secret document shows spy agencies worried about Saudi role in 9/11
At the same time, he was suspected of being a Saudi intelligence officer.
Al-Bayoumi had “extensive contact with Saudi government establishments in the United States and received financial support from a Saudi company affiliated with the Saudi Ministry of Defense,” the document said.
It also noted that the “company reportedly had ties to Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida,” the terror group that orchestrated the 9/11 attacks.
According to the FBI document, al-Bayoumi got $465 a month for “allowances.”
But when two of the hijackers arrived in California, his pay jumped to $3,700.
Nine months later, when one hijacker left the area, al-Bayoumi’s pay dropped to $3,200. It stayed there until he left the country in August 2001, a month before Al Qaeda terrorists drove two commercial airliners into the Twin Towers, one into the Pentagon and one into an empty field in rural Pennsylvania.
Bandar's prominence in the document could explain the reticence of the Bush administration and then the Obama administration to clear the release of the unproven allegations. Bandar was particularly close to former President George W. Bush and his family, and Saudi Arabia is considered a critical U.S. ally in the Middle East.
Is anyone surprised at this? It's been an open secret that factions among the Saudi government aided and abetted the 9/11 hijackers. The only question -- which still remains unanswered in this redacted version of the 28 pages -- is whether it went all the way up to the Crown.
posted by chimaera at 4:16 PM on July 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by chimaera at 4:16 PM on July 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
How much was redacted?
posted by a lungful of dragon at 4:23 PM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by a lungful of dragon at 4:23 PM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Apropos of nothing, here's quotes from the Bush Administration linking Iraq to 9/11.
posted by one_bean at 4:44 PM on July 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by one_bean at 4:44 PM on July 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
Well gosh, who would've thought? I'm shocked.
posted by kevinbelt at 4:45 PM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 4:45 PM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
MacD: "This, in combination with the knowledge that during the grounding of ALL airspace in the US during 9/11, Bush ordered all relatives of the Bin Laden family clear passage to fly out of the country ... "
Snopes claims that this allegation isn't true, and in its most extreme form it probably is.
That denial doesn't change the fact that a) the Saudi ambassador organized an evacuation effort of Saudi nationals in the weeks after Sept. 11, that b) Bush, Cheney, and Condi met with the Saudi ambassador on Sept. 13, and c) senior American officials authorized a private charter flight to carry Saudi nationals from Tampa to Lexington, Kentucky when American airspace was still closed to private flights (commercial flights only). The security guard on the flight was told the authorization came from the White House.
A lot of smoke in these now-released pages that was never fully investigated.
posted by crazy with stars at 4:47 PM on July 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
Snopes claims that this allegation isn't true, and in its most extreme form it probably is.
That denial doesn't change the fact that a) the Saudi ambassador organized an evacuation effort of Saudi nationals in the weeks after Sept. 11, that b) Bush, Cheney, and Condi met with the Saudi ambassador on Sept. 13, and c) senior American officials authorized a private charter flight to carry Saudi nationals from Tampa to Lexington, Kentucky when American airspace was still closed to private flights (commercial flights only). The security guard on the flight was told the authorization came from the White House.
A lot of smoke in these now-released pages that was never fully investigated.
posted by crazy with stars at 4:47 PM on July 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
I am shocked, shocked to find that a terrorist attack involving 15 Saudi hijackers might have links to Saudi Arabia.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 4:49 PM on July 15, 2016 [79 favorites]
posted by Pater Aletheias at 4:49 PM on July 15, 2016 [79 favorites]
I TOO AM VERY JADED
posted by indubitable at 4:55 PM on July 15, 2016 [50 favorites]
posted by indubitable at 4:55 PM on July 15, 2016 [50 favorites]
Well, duh.
posted by staggering termagant at 4:58 PM on July 15, 2016
posted by staggering termagant at 4:58 PM on July 15, 2016
Bush and Cheney's connections to the Saudis should have been enough to convict both of them for war crimes.
Instead, we have the House engaging in a 9th investigation into Benghazi.
Zero congressional investigations into the funding for the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
Nine congressional investigations into Benghazi.
How much did Dick Cheney profit from the wars, still ongoing, in the Middle East, thanks to Halliburton?
Cheney and Bush should be rotting in prison.
posted by yesster at 5:03 PM on July 15, 2016 [120 favorites]
Instead, we have the House engaging in a 9th investigation into Benghazi.
Zero congressional investigations into the funding for the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
Nine congressional investigations into Benghazi.
How much did Dick Cheney profit from the wars, still ongoing, in the Middle East, thanks to Halliburton?
Cheney and Bush should be rotting in prison.
posted by yesster at 5:03 PM on July 15, 2016 [120 favorites]
Sorry, I misspoke.
They should have been convicted for treason, for actions in 2001.
They should have been convicted for war crimes for everything between 2002 and 2008.
posted by yesster at 5:09 PM on July 15, 2016 [66 favorites]
They should have been convicted for treason, for actions in 2001.
They should have been convicted for war crimes for everything between 2002 and 2008.
posted by yesster at 5:09 PM on July 15, 2016 [66 favorites]
IOKIYAR GUYS IOYIKAR
posted by vuron at 5:14 PM on July 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by vuron at 5:14 PM on July 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Also d) that the Saudi ambassador organizing the Saudi evacuation effort was Prince Bandar bin Sultan, a friend of the Bush family and a man whose name is unfortunately frequent in the pages released today. In particular, the pages released today claim that through their wives Bandar provided hundreds of thousands of dollars to Osama Bassman, an associate of two of the hijackers.
Ughh. This is distasteful. Assuming that there were connections between the Saudi royal family and the hijackers, what are the supposed motivations of all these actors? Am I to think that the Saudi royals have an ideological opposition to the US and for this reason secretly fund terrorism? But why keep it secret? And am I to think that Bush et. al. simply take Saudi assurances of goodwill at face value and are blinded by their personal connections to members of the Saudi elite?
posted by crazy with stars at 5:15 PM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ughh. This is distasteful. Assuming that there were connections between the Saudi royal family and the hijackers, what are the supposed motivations of all these actors? Am I to think that the Saudi royals have an ideological opposition to the US and for this reason secretly fund terrorism? But why keep it secret? And am I to think that Bush et. al. simply take Saudi assurances of goodwill at face value and are blinded by their personal connections to members of the Saudi elite?
posted by crazy with stars at 5:15 PM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Bill Clinton faced impeachment over a blowjob.
Treason and war crimes, committed under Bush and Cheney.
But a blowjob.
posted by yesster at 5:15 PM on July 15, 2016 [52 favorites]
Treason and war crimes, committed under Bush and Cheney.
But a blowjob.
posted by yesster at 5:15 PM on July 15, 2016 [52 favorites]
This means that The Saudis got away with the 9/11 attacks thanks to the Bush and Obama administrations. Now, I can kinda buy that George W Bush and cronies are totally corrupt but what's Obama's excuse? Having known for years that The Saudis were directly involved in the murders of thousands of Americans, why didn't Obama openly confront the Saudis and the previous administration? What did the Saudis offer that was so valuable that Obama decided that the truth wasn't worth mentioning? How does he justify working with an "ally" who continues to fund terror directed at his own country?
posted by Foci for Analysis at 5:23 PM on July 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Foci for Analysis at 5:23 PM on July 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
Now, I can kinda buy that George W Bush and cronies are totally corrupt but what's Obama's excuse? Having known for years that The Saudis were directly involved in the murders of thousands of Americans, why didn't Obama openly confront the Saudis and the previous administration?
Ever since Ford pardoned Nixon it's been impossible to hold presidents accountable for real crimes.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:25 PM on July 15, 2016 [20 favorites]
Ever since Ford pardoned Nixon it's been impossible to hold presidents accountable for real crimes.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:25 PM on July 15, 2016 [20 favorites]
The US has sold around $60 billion in arms to Saudi Arabia since 2010. $60 billion is a ton of reasons to not raise too many concerns about the Kingdom's support of radical Wahabi groups many of which have been primary economic and religious supporters of Al Queda.
posted by vuron at 5:28 PM on July 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by vuron at 5:28 PM on July 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
Well, it only took until I was in high school for it to be generally accepted that FDR knew Pearl Harbor was coming.
I figure we got another twenty years after Cheney takes his last breath before it's understood that either a) 9-11 wasn't a surprise or b) 9-11 was step one in a process engineered to move a few trillion dollars from many pockets into far, far fewer pockets.
I go with option two myself, though I realize it's not a particularly popular opinion.
posted by Mooski at 5:28 PM on July 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
I figure we got another twenty years after Cheney takes his last breath before it's understood that either a) 9-11 wasn't a surprise or b) 9-11 was step one in a process engineered to move a few trillion dollars from many pockets into far, far fewer pockets.
I go with option two myself, though I realize it's not a particularly popular opinion.
posted by Mooski at 5:28 PM on July 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
What did the Saudis offer that was so valuable that Obama decided that the truth wasn't worth mentioning?
Arms deals.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 5:29 PM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Arms deals.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 5:29 PM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't think anyone with any sort of connection to the anti-terrorist research, intelligence or law enforcement community were particularly surprised by 9/11. Al Qaeda had targeted the WTC previously and had been extending their complexity of their terrorist operations.
I think the actual timing was more or less a surprise and I definitely think the impact of the attacks in terms of the catastrophic collapse of the WTC structures was an extreme surprise to everyone including Al Qaeda who I think freely admitted they were surprised by the collapses in their internal communications.
The unexpected success of the 9/11 operation and the extreme reactions by the US and international community seemed to have caught most people by surprise and I do think the shock and grief were real but I also think there were plenty of people in the Bush administration that decided to go with the policy of never let a good crisis go to waste as a way of strengthening the development of a unitary executive.
posted by vuron at 5:39 PM on July 15, 2016 [21 favorites]
I think the actual timing was more or less a surprise and I definitely think the impact of the attacks in terms of the catastrophic collapse of the WTC structures was an extreme surprise to everyone including Al Qaeda who I think freely admitted they were surprised by the collapses in their internal communications.
The unexpected success of the 9/11 operation and the extreme reactions by the US and international community seemed to have caught most people by surprise and I do think the shock and grief were real but I also think there were plenty of people in the Bush administration that decided to go with the policy of never let a good crisis go to waste as a way of strengthening the development of a unitary executive.
posted by vuron at 5:39 PM on July 15, 2016 [21 favorites]
Bill Clinton faced impeachment over a blowjob.
For lying about it under oath, actually. Which is both an import distinction and a derail.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:45 PM on July 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
For lying about it under oath, actually. Which is both an import distinction and a derail.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:45 PM on July 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
Well, it only took until I was in high school for it to be generally accepted that FDR knew Pearl Harbor was coming.
It is generally accepted that FDR knew an attack was coming.
Pearl Harbor specifically? Not so much.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:48 PM on July 15, 2016 [18 favorites]
It is generally accepted that FDR knew an attack was coming.
Pearl Harbor specifically? Not so much.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:48 PM on July 15, 2016 [18 favorites]
Now, I can kinda buy that George W Bush and cronies are totally corrupt but what's Obama's excuse? Having known for years that The Saudis were directly involved in the murders of thousands of Americans, why didn't Obama openly confront the Saudis and the previous administration?
I don't think any presidential administration would want to set a precedent that the first order of business is to prosecute the previous administration for whatever crimes, both real or imagined.
posted by dr_dank at 6:01 PM on July 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
I don't think any presidential administration would want to set a precedent that the first order of business is to prosecute the previous administration for whatever crimes, both real or imagined.
posted by dr_dank at 6:01 PM on July 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
For those who wonder why every western government backs the Saudis to the hilt in spite of their clear support for terrorism and reshaping the Islamic world in an extremist direction, here's one theory you probably haven't heard before:
Gerald Posner has written extensively on the secret Saudi program to rig all of their major oil wells and production facilities with self-destruct bombs and radiological dispersion devices. If the al-Sauds are ever overthrown, the last act of the king will be to push the big red button that blows up 20 percent of the world's oil, and renders it unavailable pending a long-term nuclear cleanup.
Put that in your world economy pipe and smoke it for a minute.
posted by jackbrown at 6:05 PM on July 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
Gerald Posner has written extensively on the secret Saudi program to rig all of their major oil wells and production facilities with self-destruct bombs and radiological dispersion devices. If the al-Sauds are ever overthrown, the last act of the king will be to push the big red button that blows up 20 percent of the world's oil, and renders it unavailable pending a long-term nuclear cleanup.
Put that in your world economy pipe and smoke it for a minute.
posted by jackbrown at 6:05 PM on July 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
Mod note: MacD, your earlier comment got deleted as kind of an odd noisy thing to dump into the start of the thread; just nixed your followup theorizing about what happened, that should just go to the contact form if you're unclear on moderation practice.
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:06 PM on July 15, 2016
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:06 PM on July 15, 2016
Patriots bike to work, yo.
posted by ocschwar at 6:10 PM on July 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by ocschwar at 6:10 PM on July 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
I don't see what the big deal is ... We invaded and overthrew KSA in 2002, so we're square now.
What?
posted by ZenMasterThis at 6:11 PM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
What?
posted by ZenMasterThis at 6:11 PM on July 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Even if you destroyed the oil wells and spread radiological materials over the entire Ghawar Field I don't think that the loss of the field even for an extended period would function as a "dead man's switch". Kuwait's oil production facilities were restored relatively quickly and unless we were talking extreme radioactivity the Ghawar fields could be exploited by a new government fairly quickly.
In the meantime the dependence of the rest of the world of Saudi oil production is rapidly diminishing. China is in the midst of a massive cooling of their economy and the US and Canada have stepped up production to the point where OPEC's power is extremely curtailed. Yes Saudi oil is extremely useful but it's not as powerful of a deterrent anymore which is why the Saudi regime is stepping up arms imports and still effectively bribing it's own population to forestall any internal dissent.
posted by vuron at 6:32 PM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
In the meantime the dependence of the rest of the world of Saudi oil production is rapidly diminishing. China is in the midst of a massive cooling of their economy and the US and Canada have stepped up production to the point where OPEC's power is extremely curtailed. Yes Saudi oil is extremely useful but it's not as powerful of a deterrent anymore which is why the Saudi regime is stepping up arms imports and still effectively bribing it's own population to forestall any internal dissent.
posted by vuron at 6:32 PM on July 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't think any presidential administration would want to set a precedent that the first order of business is to prosecute the previous administration for whatever crimes, both real or imagined.
So basically our famous system of checks and balances in practice would require any criminal administration, no matter how corrupt or destructive, to prosecute themselves? Basically, justice on the honor system... Explains a lot.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:06 PM on July 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
So basically our famous system of checks and balances in practice would require any criminal administration, no matter how corrupt or destructive, to prosecute themselves? Basically, justice on the honor system... Explains a lot.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:06 PM on July 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
I just learned that the Saudi's have a plan to nuke their oil fields and about an outsourced intelligence network financed by the Saudis and presided over by Reagan/ Bush/ CIA that gave rise to Iran-Contra and Al Queda. Thanks Metafilter, I think I'm going to go cry myself to sleep now.
posted by photoslob at 7:11 PM on July 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by photoslob at 7:11 PM on July 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud Targaryen
posted by Drinky Die at 7:21 PM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Drinky Die at 7:21 PM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
There's some good additional information -- from other investigations and evidence -- here: What the 28 pages missed.
posted by grounded at 7:23 PM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by grounded at 7:23 PM on July 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
For lying about it under oath, actually. Which is both an import distinction and a derail.
Well, that depends on what "is" is.
wait a minute... "'is' is..." "ISIS." ZOMG
posted by entropicamericana at 7:42 PM on July 15, 2016 [29 favorites]
Well, that depends on what "is" is.
wait a minute... "'is' is..." "ISIS." ZOMG
posted by entropicamericana at 7:42 PM on July 15, 2016 [29 favorites]
I see grounded has already covered the case of the Sarasota house which goes unresolved.
No evidence of links to Saudi officials -- just spies, diplomats, and personal friends of the Bushes. Yeah, I have no idea why we're talking in that other thread about the rabble in flyover country that doesn't trust the elite class to run the world's foreign policy from smoke-filled closets.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:46 PM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
No evidence of links to Saudi officials -- just spies, diplomats, and personal friends of the Bushes. Yeah, I have no idea why we're talking in that other thread about the rabble in flyover country that doesn't trust the elite class to run the world's foreign policy from smoke-filled closets.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:46 PM on July 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
why didn't Obama openly confront the Saudis and the previous administration?
I don't think Obama would openly confront someone caught red handed stealing his wallet, much less the Saudis and the Bush administration.
I am glad the information is being released, though sadly late and as mentioned, long after most of it had leaked and was anyway ignored in favor of useless wars elsewhere.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:06 PM on July 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
I don't think Obama would openly confront someone caught red handed stealing his wallet, much less the Saudis and the Bush administration.
I am glad the information is being released, though sadly late and as mentioned, long after most of it had leaked and was anyway ignored in favor of useless wars elsewhere.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:06 PM on July 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
robotvoodoopower, isn't that non-elite-supporting rabble mostly comprised of bush supporters?
posted by fingers_of_fire at 8:31 PM on July 15, 2016
posted by fingers_of_fire at 8:31 PM on July 15, 2016
Former Bush supporters, nowadays, apparently.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:03 PM on July 15, 2016
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:03 PM on July 15, 2016
I have always put more faith in the US tort system than the US legislative branch to describe the degree of 9/11 causation to fairly lay at the feet of the Kingdom.
An old friend's father-in-law was a very colourful character, the southern lawyer Ron Motley, who broke the tobacco companies (he's fictionalised in The Insider). And he was using his immense resources to do just that before he died. This effort continues.
Terrorist Claims About Saudis put 9-11 Families Back In The Spotlight (NYT)
posted by C.A.S. at 12:44 AM on July 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
An old friend's father-in-law was a very colourful character, the southern lawyer Ron Motley, who broke the tobacco companies (he's fictionalised in The Insider). And he was using his immense resources to do just that before he died. This effort continues.
Terrorist Claims About Saudis put 9-11 Families Back In The Spotlight (NYT)
posted by C.A.S. at 12:44 AM on July 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
The report was written in 2002. Subsequent investigations showed that many of these leads were false, and concluded there was no high-level conspiracy, though they couldn't rule out that lower level Saudi officials might have played a role.
It's all right there in the article you all are selectively quoting.
posted by kanewai at 1:29 AM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's all right there in the article you all are selectively quoting.
posted by kanewai at 1:29 AM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
An oldie, but a goodie.
Tomgram: Elizabeth de la Vega, Indicting Bush
Tomgram: Elizabeth de la Vega, Indicting Bush
The Indictment United States v. George W. Bush et al.posted by mikelieman at 3:17 AM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
By Elizabeth de la Vega
Assistant United States Attorney: Good morning, Ladies and Gentlemen. We're here today in the case of United States v. George W. Bush et al. In addition to President Bush, the defendants are Vice President Richard B. Cheney, former National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice -- who's now the Secretary of State, of course -- Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, and former Secretary of State Colin Powell.
It's a one-count proposed indictment: Conspiracy to Defraud the United States in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 371. I'll explain the law that applies to the case this afternoon, but I'm going to hand out the indictment now, so you'll have some context for that explanation. Take as long as you need to read it, and then feel free to take your lunch break, but please leave your copy of the indictment with the foreperson. We'll meet back at one o'clock.
The report was written in 2002. Subsequent investigations showed that many of these leads were false, and concluded there was no high-level conspiracy, though they couldn't rule out that lower level Saudi officials might have played a role.
Many others do not agree with the conclusion that any adequate investigations demonstrate conclusively that there was no high-level conspiracy from Saudi Arabia
Charles Pierce on the 28 Pages (Esquire)
Time Magazine re Gerald Posner's book on 9-11
20th hijacker says Sauidi princes supported al Qaeda (Telegraph)
The links to Bandar suggested from the 28 pages certainly do not seem fully explained.
posted by C.A.S. at 5:03 AM on July 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Many others do not agree with the conclusion that any adequate investigations demonstrate conclusively that there was no high-level conspiracy from Saudi Arabia
Charles Pierce on the 28 Pages (Esquire)
Time Magazine re Gerald Posner's book on 9-11
20th hijacker says Sauidi princes supported al Qaeda (Telegraph)
The links to Bandar suggested from the 28 pages certainly do not seem fully explained.
posted by C.A.S. at 5:03 AM on July 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
i.e. continuing questions about Bandar and the hijackers not resolved since the release of the 28 pages.
I would consider Bandar a conduit to a "high level" conspiracy.
9-11 report release could strain US relationship with Saudi Arabia (Guardian)
posted by C.A.S. at 6:35 AM on July 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I would consider Bandar a conduit to a "high level" conspiracy.
9-11 report release could strain US relationship with Saudi Arabia (Guardian)
posted by C.A.S. at 6:35 AM on July 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
why didn't Obama openly confront the Saudis and the previous administration?
because too many democrats and lobbyists/supporters of both parties were in on this
there is absolutely no way anyone's going to prosecute the bush administration without a bunch of more secrets being spilled and more accomplices being identified
as far as the saudis are concerned - when the time comes when they're no longer needed by the us, they will find themselves with all sorts of interesting sharp objects in their backsides
posted by pyramid termite at 7:34 AM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
because too many democrats and lobbyists/supporters of both parties were in on this
there is absolutely no way anyone's going to prosecute the bush administration without a bunch of more secrets being spilled and more accomplices being identified
as far as the saudis are concerned - when the time comes when they're no longer needed by the us, they will find themselves with all sorts of interesting sharp objects in their backsides
posted by pyramid termite at 7:34 AM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah right, these are the same guys trying to convince us the government is secretly recording all of our communications.
Pfft - people, we have the most luxuriously-headed journalists watching and reporting on key issues like a hawk - there's no way they'd let an incredible cover up that reaches to the highest levels go unchecked. I mean, we're talking ABC, NBC, and that one with the funny weatherman guy. Integrity. Insight. Making a difference . . . for you.
posted by petebest at 2:30 PM on July 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Pfft - people, we have the most luxuriously-headed journalists watching and reporting on key issues like a hawk - there's no way they'd let an incredible cover up that reaches to the highest levels go unchecked. I mean, we're talking ABC, NBC, and that one with the funny weatherman guy. Integrity. Insight. Making a difference . . . for you.
posted by petebest at 2:30 PM on July 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
because too many democrats and lobbyists/supporters of both parties were in on this
What's missing in the American media discussion, I think, is why this took so long to be released. Highly-placed US government officials want to placate prominent members of the Saudi royal family, so what are the economic and political interests being served here? Media outside the US are covering weapons and other investment deals between our countries, but we don't see that discussion here, so much. It is pretty frustrating to see a big part of the story left out this way.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 2:48 PM on July 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
What's missing in the American media discussion, I think, is why this took so long to be released. Highly-placed US government officials want to placate prominent members of the Saudi royal family, so what are the economic and political interests being served here? Media outside the US are covering weapons and other investment deals between our countries, but we don't see that discussion here, so much. It is pretty frustrating to see a big part of the story left out this way.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 2:48 PM on July 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
What vuron said, except perhaps a reminder the alQ leadership were not surprised by the US government response to 9/11 - they had explicitly stated their intention to provoke the US into military engagement in muslim countries in several different manifestos published in the mid 90's.
posted by bigZLiLk at 11:13 PM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by bigZLiLk at 11:13 PM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Charles Pierce on the 28 Pages (Esquire)
The families of 3,000 dead Americans are still waiting for justice.
A bit sloppy writing there -- one out of eight dead had a non-US citizenship. People from 77 countries died in the 9/11 attacks.
posted by effbot at 5:49 AM on July 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
The families of 3,000 dead Americans are still waiting for justice.
A bit sloppy writing there -- one out of eight dead had a non-US citizenship. People from 77 countries died in the 9/11 attacks.
posted by effbot at 5:49 AM on July 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
still waiting for justice.
Unfortunately, 14 years later I think Richard Clarke's apology is the best they're going to get.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:02 AM on July 17, 2016
Unfortunately, 14 years later I think Richard Clarke's apology is the best they're going to get.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:02 AM on July 17, 2016
Iraq was created after WWI as a colonial domination strategy. Iraq has tremendous unproven oil reserves that rival SA and Iran. At its formation a Saudi Prince was put in charge and heavily reviled. Classic colonialism--multiple warring factions (Sunni, Shia, all manner of Kurds, and so forth) and Saddam heavily played up the notion of Iraqi nationalism in order to win over significant portions of the population.
Why would Saudis want to provoke the US into a protracted engagement? Perhaps if they knew we were looking for a reason to fight Iraq and a group of neoconservatives that served Bush wrote a document called "Rebuilding America's Defenses" that was actually laying out a framework for aggressive domination of countries like Iraq once a "new Pearl Harbor" whipped the citizens of the US into a terrorized frenzy?
Now try to see ISIS as SA's hezbollah or contra forces and things start to fall into place without having to get all Alex Jonesy about it. SA knew we were itching to fight Iraq and they would love to have us gesticulate wildly while serving "mutual" interests massively. Mutual interests that benefit Halliburton, the Carlisle group, the Saudi Royal family, etc.
posted by aydeejones at 11:31 AM on July 17, 2016
Why would Saudis want to provoke the US into a protracted engagement? Perhaps if they knew we were looking for a reason to fight Iraq and a group of neoconservatives that served Bush wrote a document called "Rebuilding America's Defenses" that was actually laying out a framework for aggressive domination of countries like Iraq once a "new Pearl Harbor" whipped the citizens of the US into a terrorized frenzy?
Now try to see ISIS as SA's hezbollah or contra forces and things start to fall into place without having to get all Alex Jonesy about it. SA knew we were itching to fight Iraq and they would love to have us gesticulate wildly while serving "mutual" interests massively. Mutual interests that benefit Halliburton, the Carlisle group, the Saudi Royal family, etc.
posted by aydeejones at 11:31 AM on July 17, 2016
Iraq was starting to trade oil in euros as part of a UN "food for oil" program as well, around the same time we started getting very aggro about looking for WMDs. An oil Euro market is disastrous to the OPEC cartel which is largely Saudi Arabia swinging its massive peen around.
And eponysterical, OP. This is the kind of shit that has been jangling around my brain for 15 years, I saw it coming, I was not surprised, I was obsessed with "blowback" starring in 1996 after learning about Iran-Contra, operation AJAX, and other "holy shit this isn't Alex Jones bullshit" horrors like the stories easily accessed in Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine" and this shit is sickening as fuck to live with. Doesn't help that my dad served in the first Iraq war, he knew it was bullshit, but he came back a submissive person who couldn't keep his promises. Thanks for the daddy issues GHWB
posted by aydeejones at 11:39 AM on July 17, 2016
And eponysterical, OP. This is the kind of shit that has been jangling around my brain for 15 years, I saw it coming, I was not surprised, I was obsessed with "blowback" starring in 1996 after learning about Iran-Contra, operation AJAX, and other "holy shit this isn't Alex Jones bullshit" horrors like the stories easily accessed in Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine" and this shit is sickening as fuck to live with. Doesn't help that my dad served in the first Iraq war, he knew it was bullshit, but he came back a submissive person who couldn't keep his promises. Thanks for the daddy issues GHWB
posted by aydeejones at 11:39 AM on July 17, 2016
For lying about it under oath, actually. Which is both an import distinction and a derail.
It's the derail that they get you for not the crime.
posted by srboisvert at 2:13 PM on July 18, 2016
It's the derail that they get you for not the crime.
posted by srboisvert at 2:13 PM on July 18, 2016
If you watch Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911, this is pretty much what he said in 2004. And if you follow the money trail, it's never lead anywhere but to Bush and Cheney.
posted by tizzie at 4:04 PM on July 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by tizzie at 4:04 PM on July 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
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