Australia's Guantanamo for Children
July 25, 2016 6:12 AM Subscribe
Evidence of torture of children in custody in Australia. As seen on Australian television this evening.
Australia has a history of both criminally abusing people in detention , and vilifying people who try to blow the whistle.
The Forgotten Children: National Inquiry into Children in Immigration Detention (2014)
Gillian Triggs, the Human Rights Commissioner who wrote about the treatment of children in immigration detention was attacked by a conservative government that was re-elected in the last month.
Australia has a history of both criminally abusing people in detention , and vilifying people who try to blow the whistle.
The Forgotten Children: National Inquiry into Children in Immigration Detention (2014)
Gillian Triggs, the Human Rights Commissioner who wrote about the treatment of children in immigration detention was attacked by a conservative government that was re-elected in the last month.
Thank you for sharing this.
posted by xarnop at 7:02 AM on July 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by xarnop at 7:02 AM on July 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Fucking vile.
These children have been horribly broken long before they arrive in prison. The nation has a duty to provide them with the care, kindness and treatment they need and deserve. You don't get locked up at 13 years old unless your nation has failed you.
Putting them in storage under the power of untrained thugs is appalling.
This is my country. The place where we outsource our inhumanity.
I'm writing to my MP now.
posted by Combat Wombat at 7:08 AM on July 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
These children have been horribly broken long before they arrive in prison. The nation has a duty to provide them with the care, kindness and treatment they need and deserve. You don't get locked up at 13 years old unless your nation has failed you.
Putting them in storage under the power of untrained thugs is appalling.
This is my country. The place where we outsource our inhumanity.
I'm writing to my MP now.
posted by Combat Wombat at 7:08 AM on July 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
Have actually sent this to my MP:
Dear Jane,
Congratulation on your re-election! Now to less happy matters.
As the ABC have revealed, we have been torturing children in custody. I can scarcely believe I have written that sentence.
Children, in our care, have been tortured.This is not a simple administrative matter. It's not a matter for doubt or nuance or balance.
We - the people of the commonwealth - have tortured children involuntarily in our custody.
These children were damaged, broken and hurt long before they were committed to custody. I have no doubt that they are difficult and sometimes dangerous to work with.
But they are children, and they were in our care, and we tortured them.
And nobody has had to face a court.
We are better than this.
You are a member of the government. What are you going to do?
Yours sincerely,
{c.wombat}
posted by Combat Wombat at 7:21 AM on July 25, 2016 [79 favorites]
Dear Jane,
Congratulation on your re-election! Now to less happy matters.
As the ABC have revealed, we have been torturing children in custody. I can scarcely believe I have written that sentence.
Children, in our care, have been tortured.This is not a simple administrative matter. It's not a matter for doubt or nuance or balance.
We - the people of the commonwealth - have tortured children involuntarily in our custody.
These children were damaged, broken and hurt long before they were committed to custody. I have no doubt that they are difficult and sometimes dangerous to work with.
But they are children, and they were in our care, and we tortured them.
And nobody has had to face a court.
We are better than this.
You are a member of the government. What are you going to do?
Yours sincerely,
{c.wombat}
posted by Combat Wombat at 7:21 AM on July 25, 2016 [79 favorites]
Given that the majority of the Australian public* are extremely relaxed and comfortable with asylum seekers being tortured and sexually abused in the name of deterrence, one wonders how far the line of dehumanisation can be pushed. Will John and Narelle Citizen be happy with street kids being treated as vermin? Will this depend on the colour of the kids' skin and/or whether they are sufficiently “other” to mainstream Australia?
* both major parties are emphatically in favour of this policy, and given that the Greens vote hasn't gone up dramatically (and right-of-centre independents line Xenophon and Hanson have taken an increasing slice of the non-major-party vote) at the last election, this is probably safe to say.
posted by acb at 7:30 AM on July 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
* both major parties are emphatically in favour of this policy, and given that the Greens vote hasn't gone up dramatically (and right-of-centre independents line Xenophon and Hanson have taken an increasing slice of the non-major-party vote) at the last election, this is probably safe to say.
posted by acb at 7:30 AM on July 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
Well, that is pretty fucked up.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:40 AM on July 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:40 AM on July 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm utterly with your cynicism there acb. You know that one of the directors of the Ethics Centre (yes, the people who brought Primary Ethics to schools) is Jim Molan? Him of Operation Soverign Borders fame. LNP senate candidate and all round supporter of the Festival of Dangerous Ideas.
Yeah, well they give ethical advice to corporate (and commonwealth) Australia. And their connection to Transfield is strong.
This might stir something. They're citizens so slightly more acceptable to John and Narrelle. But then they're boys. And kids of colour so it could go either way in the pearl clutching.
Can't wait to wake up to Bolt and Devine in a few hours. But we all knew this was happening. Gillian Triggs told us what we're capable of. The Royal Commission in to black deaths in custody told us this. We knew. We did nothing.
And we just elected another LNP government. We're no better than the US. We are just less overt in our racism and most of it's just joking...
posted by taff at 7:55 AM on July 25, 2016
Yeah, well they give ethical advice to corporate (and commonwealth) Australia. And their connection to Transfield is strong.
This might stir something. They're citizens so slightly more acceptable to John and Narrelle. But then they're boys. And kids of colour so it could go either way in the pearl clutching.
Can't wait to wake up to Bolt and Devine in a few hours. But we all knew this was happening. Gillian Triggs told us what we're capable of. The Royal Commission in to black deaths in custody told us this. We knew. We did nothing.
And we just elected another LNP government. We're no better than the US. We are just less overt in our racism and most of it's just joking...
posted by taff at 7:55 AM on July 25, 2016
If anyone is interested in the USA version of this, Metafilter's Maia Szalavitz wrote a good book a while back.
posted by johngoren at 7:57 AM on July 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by johngoren at 7:57 AM on July 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
This has been an absolute fucking disaster of a policy since day fucking one.
One of the worst parts that people don't see is that the whole thing is terribly de jure racist with visa overstayers (i.e. white people) being taken in, given a bridging visa and then released. Boat people from the middle east? You get a 17th class ticket to Nauru.
The gagging of public servants and employees witnessing these horrors is a national embarrassment and will be a permanent stain on Australia's legacy as a liberal western democracy. The fact that both sides of the aisle support this horrendous policy placating selfishness and xenophobia will forever be our national shame along with the Stolen Generation.
posted by Talez at 8:01 AM on July 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
One of the worst parts that people don't see is that the whole thing is terribly de jure racist with visa overstayers (i.e. white people) being taken in, given a bridging visa and then released. Boat people from the middle east? You get a 17th class ticket to Nauru.
The gagging of public servants and employees witnessing these horrors is a national embarrassment and will be a permanent stain on Australia's legacy as a liberal western democracy. The fact that both sides of the aisle support this horrendous policy placating selfishness and xenophobia will forever be our national shame along with the Stolen Generation.
posted by Talez at 8:01 AM on July 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
There come days when you realize that the lofty tales of the Western World that we tell about ourselves are all a steaming pile of bullshit.
I wish we were better than this. I don't see any way to get there from here, though.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 8:12 AM on July 25, 2016 [16 favorites]
I wish we were better than this. I don't see any way to get there from here, though.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 8:12 AM on July 25, 2016 [16 favorites]
If these youths ever escape their present situation and eventually turn on society, the pleas of their attorneys for juries to consider their childhood will guaranteed fall on deaf ears.
posted by notreally at 9:09 AM on July 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by notreally at 9:09 AM on July 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Talez: It's worth noting that these videos are showing Australian children in custody, and this is not directly about refugees.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 9:15 AM on July 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by the agents of KAOS at 9:15 AM on July 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Today's episode of "How to Make a Criminal for Life"; brought to you by Australia.
posted by buzzman at 9:20 AM on July 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by buzzman at 9:20 AM on July 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
"I don't see any way to get there from here, though."
We agree to forsake the comforts of our limited human existence and take on unfathomable powers from divine compassionate forces within and beyond us to serve and uplift humanity and other suffering beings from the abyss of torment so many have fallen into in this realm.
Heaven help us.
posted by xarnop at 9:24 AM on July 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
We agree to forsake the comforts of our limited human existence and take on unfathomable powers from divine compassionate forces within and beyond us to serve and uplift humanity and other suffering beings from the abyss of torment so many have fallen into in this realm.
Heaven help us.
posted by xarnop at 9:24 AM on July 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
More realistically, even without divine aid we continue to take what small steps we may; pushing forth to create what real strengths we may master and learn to use our very real power to serve the vulnerable and distressed in our community and to combat those misusing power for great harm (including facing our own limitation and capacity to do this).
posted by xarnop at 9:26 AM on July 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by xarnop at 9:26 AM on July 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
xarnop, my guess is that both the divine and political strategies you describe are necessary to address this deep problem in our world.
posted by kaymac at 9:38 AM on July 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by kaymac at 9:38 AM on July 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
As someone who does social work (direct provision before, government planning now), I think a huge step in the right direction would be to finally deal with and accept the fact that humane treatment of at risk youth and in general any social program is much more expensive than we currently think it should be. And then fez up to reality and eat the cost because it's totally worth it.
Cheapening out in the management of prisons, youth centers, etc. will OBVIOUSLY end up in a system ran by sociopaths or people who have been so underemployed for so long that they have opted for the road that normalizes inhumane practices.
Safely run systems that rely on well paid, well trained people who are properly screened and who receive adequate support are expensive, but without even getting into the moral aspects of treating children with decency, the investment is returned in a tangibly reduced incidence of crime in future population.
If these children were not traumatized beyond repair before they entered these detention centers, they are now, and I will have to use a ton of self control to not punch the first person who complains about them not trusting authority or generally misbehaving in the future. All the suffering and the maladaptive behavior to come is on the hands of those who set this up.
posted by Tarumba at 10:00 AM on July 25, 2016 [24 favorites]
Cheapening out in the management of prisons, youth centers, etc. will OBVIOUSLY end up in a system ran by sociopaths or people who have been so underemployed for so long that they have opted for the road that normalizes inhumane practices.
Safely run systems that rely on well paid, well trained people who are properly screened and who receive adequate support are expensive, but without even getting into the moral aspects of treating children with decency, the investment is returned in a tangibly reduced incidence of crime in future population.
If these children were not traumatized beyond repair before they entered these detention centers, they are now, and I will have to use a ton of self control to not punch the first person who complains about them not trusting authority or generally misbehaving in the future. All the suffering and the maladaptive behavior to come is on the hands of those who set this up.
posted by Tarumba at 10:00 AM on July 25, 2016 [24 favorites]
Think of how much money we could save if we took basic care of children from birth so they didn't wind up in this kind of hellhole system.
Think of how much money could be saved if we could grant women autonomy and allow them to conceive only wanted children they could afford to care for physically, emotionally, and financially.
Think how cheap it would be to hand out free no-strings birth control to every woman of childbearing age. If that saved one unwanted kid. Wouldn't it be worth it?
All those apocalyptic tales of a plague causing sterility? Maybe we deserve it.
posted by BlueHorse at 10:27 AM on July 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Think of how much money could be saved if we could grant women autonomy and allow them to conceive only wanted children they could afford to care for physically, emotionally, and financially.
Think how cheap it would be to hand out free no-strings birth control to every woman of childbearing age. If that saved one unwanted kid. Wouldn't it be worth it?
All those apocalyptic tales of a plague causing sterility? Maybe we deserve it.
posted by BlueHorse at 10:27 AM on July 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
It'd also need to get rid of the ideology of moral hazard, and the idea that it is right for people to be outraged that prison is not a manmade Hell of harsh punishments. Given that Australia has tabloid newspapers and TV programmes which specialise in outrage-mongering about prisoners having small comforts (paid by YOUR TAXES!) in prisons, and politicians pander to this outrage, the arc of history appears to be bending in the other direction at the moment.
And yes, one could explain that, if you flog the prisoners as hard as Rupert Murdoch and Derryn Hinch and their baying audiences demand, once you release them, the recidivism rate will go through the roof, and that, instead, coddling them like the decadent Norwegians do makes more sense if you care about actual outcomes rather than getting your vengeance hard-on on, but that would require the public to pay attention to namby-pamby liberal things like reason and causation, and as the Brexit referendum and the rise of Donald Trump and such have shown, that is a fool's errand.
posted by acb at 10:29 AM on July 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
And yes, one could explain that, if you flog the prisoners as hard as Rupert Murdoch and Derryn Hinch and their baying audiences demand, once you release them, the recidivism rate will go through the roof, and that, instead, coddling them like the decadent Norwegians do makes more sense if you care about actual outcomes rather than getting your vengeance hard-on on, but that would require the public to pay attention to namby-pamby liberal things like reason and causation, and as the Brexit referendum and the rise of Donald Trump and such have shown, that is a fool's errand.
posted by acb at 10:29 AM on July 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
acb: for Murdoch et al, this is a feature, not a bug.
posted by lalochezia at 11:18 AM on July 25, 2016
posted by lalochezia at 11:18 AM on July 25, 2016
That was rape.
posted by srboisvert at 11:22 AM on July 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by srboisvert at 11:22 AM on July 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Even a cursory reading of Hughes's The Fatal Shore (all I was able to stomach), makes it clear that torture was knit into the fabric of Australia from the beginning, and it's hard not to conclude that only a self-conscious, unflagging, and enormous effort on a national scale will be able to get it out again.
But given that civil war and revolution have not been enough to extinguish slavery in the 'New World', that may be a very optimistic assessment.
posted by jamjam at 11:25 AM on July 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
But given that civil war and revolution have not been enough to extinguish slavery in the 'New World', that may be a very optimistic assessment.
posted by jamjam at 11:25 AM on July 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Fastest Royal Commission ever.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:43 PM on July 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:43 PM on July 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Fastest Royal Commission ever.
Why confine it to the Northern Territory? It's pretty easy to point a finger at somewhere that is remote and unfamiliar to most Australians.
posted by prettypretty at 3:53 PM on July 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Why confine it to the Northern Territory? It's pretty easy to point a finger at somewhere that is remote and unfamiliar to most Australians.
posted by prettypretty at 3:53 PM on July 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
hink of how much money could be saved if we could grant women autonomy and allow them to conceive only wanted children they could afford to care for physically, emotionally, and financially.
Think how cheap it would be to hand out free no-strings birth control to every woman of childbearing age. If that saved one unwanted kid. Wouldn't it be worth it?
Bluehorse- Australia is one of the most civilly and institutionally racist places on earth. Theses kids didn't stand a chance. That you assume they're as a result of unwanted pregnancies by inadequate women is appalling. In Australia we also need #BlackLivesMatter not eugenic level shite like you've just said. It's not the parents that don't value their children. It's the fncking government and all the white people.
I'm sure it would be reassuring if black people bred less and just disappeared as a problem. But we still think of that as genocide, even in this place.
posted by taff at 4:10 PM on July 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
Think how cheap it would be to hand out free no-strings birth control to every woman of childbearing age. If that saved one unwanted kid. Wouldn't it be worth it?
Bluehorse- Australia is one of the most civilly and institutionally racist places on earth. Theses kids didn't stand a chance. That you assume they're as a result of unwanted pregnancies by inadequate women is appalling. In Australia we also need #BlackLivesMatter not eugenic level shite like you've just said. It's not the parents that don't value their children. It's the fncking government and all the white people.
I'm sure it would be reassuring if black people bred less and just disappeared as a problem. But we still think of that as genocide, even in this place.
posted by taff at 4:10 PM on July 25, 2016 [15 favorites]
Afraid my reaction to this was: "Ah, of course this is what's been happening".
posted by turbid dahlia at 6:09 PM on July 25, 2016
posted by turbid dahlia at 6:09 PM on July 25, 2016
Stan Grant in The Guardian.
I didn’t want to watch Four Corners last night. I knew what was to come. I couldn’t watch all of it. I got up, I walked around and every time I came back there was another boy talking about loneliness and depression and fear.posted by Thella at 7:45 PM on July 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
...
After Four Corners I watched a little of the Q&A panel discuss the horrors of what they had seen. They discussed Indigenous incarceration, black deaths in custody. They answered questions about constitutional recognition.
They talked about the first peoples of this country and there wasn’t even an Indigenous person on the panel. Not one of them even mentioned how utterly inappropriate it is to be talking about us and not including us.
I just wanted to yell at the screen, get out of our lives!
prettypretty: "Why confine it to the Northern Territory? It's pretty easy to point a finger at somewhere that is remote and unfamiliar to most Australians.
Asked - and answered…
posted by Pinback at 9:41 PM on July 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Asked - and answered…
posted by Pinback at 9:41 PM on July 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
"Governments of all levels remain steadfast in their pursuit of secrecy. Film is hard to come by. When graphic images do come to light, we care, like we cared on Monday night. And when we care, our politicians race to appear concerned – or to pass the buck.ABC Four Corners: We're understandably shocked. But we already knew [theage]
Turnbull is "shocked and appalled". NT Chief Minister Adam Giles is "shocked and disgusted". Indigenous Affairs Minister Nigel Scullion assures us he "didn't know about it". Barnaby Joyce parrots the same line: "We didn't know."
But we have known about all this for years and our politicians have too. The royal commission will go through the motions. Just as it did 25 years ago, looking into Aboriginal deaths in custody. But a few years down the line when the recommendations are handed down, will anyone still be watching?
posted by freethefeet at 12:15 AM on July 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Response from my MP:
Dear {c.wombat}posted by Combat Wombat at 4:51 AM on July 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Thank you for your email.
I am shocked and appalled that something like this could occur in today’s Australia.
The Prime Minister has ordered a Royal Commission:
“This needs a thorough inquiry, we need to move quickly on that, get to the bottom of it and expose what occurred and expose the culture that allowed it to occur and allowed to remain unrevealed for so long.”
I applaud the Prime Minister’s swift response in announcing a Royal Commission and working with the Human Rights Commissioner.
We must also act immediately to ensure there are no other situations like this.
Yours sincerely
{MP}
You know that one of the directors of the Ethics Centre (yes, the people who brought Primary Ethics to schools) is Jim Molan? Him of Operation Soverign Borders fame
One of the dozen or so board members. Geraldine Doogue was also on the board at the time Primary Ethics was launched, which was equally driven by the NSW P&C (schools' Parents & Citizens associations), with the St James Ethics Centre providing the curriculum.
Edmund Capon of the AGNSW also featured on the board, along with a heap of people on boards of organisations like the Black Dog Institute, CARE Australia, The Smith Family and the Starlight Foundation.
Interestingly, Molan never seems to have been part of any of the Board subcommittees, and presumably was only there because a military guy might have been seen to have been necessary for dealing with ethics in the armed forces...? Certainly, there are also business board types who would need to be there to gain some sort of respect from the business community.
One surprising tidbit out of all this: he's the father of rugby league commentator Erin Molan. I always wondered how she got that gig.
But enough of that digression.
One of the persistent themes of the refuphobic crowd is "we need to keep those refugees out so we can concentrate our resources on Aussies in need!"
I pointed out endlessly that the same kind of government or mindset that persecutes one bunch of vulnerable people will persecute others, citing Abbott slashing funding for domestic violence shelters and mental health support services at the same time as he was persecuting refugees.
It's simply a straight out fantasy that persecuting one group in need somehow translates into helping others. A government, political party, mindset or philosophy that hates one set of downtrodden people will always extend that hatred to others, and even if technically it was the Northern Territory government that was behind these atrocities, it was done in a political climate where just yesterday PM Turnbull was talking about "indefinite detention" of people thought to be terrorism risks - no, not a criminal conviction in a court of law, but just arbitrary endless detention without trial.
In summary, we need more Ethics classes in primary schools and hopefully in a generation or two there might be less of this.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:20 AM on July 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
One of the dozen or so board members. Geraldine Doogue was also on the board at the time Primary Ethics was launched, which was equally driven by the NSW P&C (schools' Parents & Citizens associations), with the St James Ethics Centre providing the curriculum.
Edmund Capon of the AGNSW also featured on the board, along with a heap of people on boards of organisations like the Black Dog Institute, CARE Australia, The Smith Family and the Starlight Foundation.
Interestingly, Molan never seems to have been part of any of the Board subcommittees, and presumably was only there because a military guy might have been seen to have been necessary for dealing with ethics in the armed forces...? Certainly, there are also business board types who would need to be there to gain some sort of respect from the business community.
One surprising tidbit out of all this: he's the father of rugby league commentator Erin Molan. I always wondered how she got that gig.
But enough of that digression.
One of the persistent themes of the refuphobic crowd is "we need to keep those refugees out so we can concentrate our resources on Aussies in need!"
I pointed out endlessly that the same kind of government or mindset that persecutes one bunch of vulnerable people will persecute others, citing Abbott slashing funding for domestic violence shelters and mental health support services at the same time as he was persecuting refugees.
It's simply a straight out fantasy that persecuting one group in need somehow translates into helping others. A government, political party, mindset or philosophy that hates one set of downtrodden people will always extend that hatred to others, and even if technically it was the Northern Territory government that was behind these atrocities, it was done in a political climate where just yesterday PM Turnbull was talking about "indefinite detention" of people thought to be terrorism risks - no, not a criminal conviction in a court of law, but just arbitrary endless detention without trial.
In summary, we need more Ethics classes in primary schools and hopefully in a generation or two there might be less of this.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:20 AM on July 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
[CW's MP] We must also act immediately to ensure there are no other situations like this.
Did this MP vote for the Border Force Act 2015? Under this Act, a person who disclosed information about abuses such as torture, abuse and rape in Australian-run detention centres is subject to 2 years jail. (see Part 6 of the Act.)
I think you might press your MP on this point.
posted by hawthorne at 5:28 AM on July 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Did this MP vote for the Border Force Act 2015? Under this Act, a person who disclosed information about abuses such as torture, abuse and rape in Australian-run detention centres is subject to 2 years jail. (see Part 6 of the Act.)
I think you might press your MP on this point.
posted by hawthorne at 5:28 AM on July 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think you might press your MP on this point.
Yes. If the MP is fair dinkum, then they would have to support Prof. Triggs' suggestion that the Royal Commission should also be looking into the offshore deterrent arbitrary detention centres.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:33 AM on July 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yes. If the MP is fair dinkum, then they would have to support Prof. Triggs' suggestion that the Royal Commission should also be looking into the offshore deterrent arbitrary detention centres.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:33 AM on July 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
(the ones that could see contractor directors and employees prosecuted for crimes against humanity, according to Stanford Law professors)
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:37 AM on July 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:37 AM on July 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I am appalled, but not surprised, by this. It fits in with every other institutionalised and individual bit of racism towards Indigenous people I've seen and heard of in Australia.
Tarumba makes a good point about the cost of humane justice systems. Every fucking level of government wants to cut costs as if running a country was just like running a business.
And I'd be interested to know more about governance in the Northern Territory generally, if anyone has interesting links. I know it was run at the federal instead of the state-level system at first - why did that change, and are we sure that was a good idea?
I'm going to email my MP tomorrow. I don't see how a Royal Commission will help if nothing will actually change. Will it be able to put these guards in prison? Or stop the NT government from hiring more who are exactly like these racist thugs?
posted by harriet vane at 5:53 AM on July 26, 2016
Tarumba makes a good point about the cost of humane justice systems. Every fucking level of government wants to cut costs as if running a country was just like running a business.
And I'd be interested to know more about governance in the Northern Territory generally, if anyone has interesting links. I know it was run at the federal instead of the state-level system at first - why did that change, and are we sure that was a good idea?
I'm going to email my MP tomorrow. I don't see how a Royal Commission will help if nothing will actually change. Will it be able to put these guards in prison? Or stop the NT government from hiring more who are exactly like these racist thugs?
posted by harriet vane at 5:53 AM on July 26, 2016
harriet vane: "I am appalled, but not surprised, by this. It fits in with every other institutionalised and individual bit of racism towards Indigenous people I've seen and heard of in Australia. "
Very much this. The thing that leaves me wanting to cry or scream or something is the knowledge that this isn't an isolated thing. It's an especially gross example, but it's reflective of how Australian society treats Indigenous people. In so many ways, big and small, this kind of systemic racism is built in to the culture. I'd like to believe we can do better, but I'm not exactly filled with optimism.
posted by the existence of stars below the horizon at 4:56 PM on July 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Very much this. The thing that leaves me wanting to cry or scream or something is the knowledge that this isn't an isolated thing. It's an especially gross example, but it's reflective of how Australian society treats Indigenous people. In so many ways, big and small, this kind of systemic racism is built in to the culture. I'd like to believe we can do better, but I'm not exactly filled with optimism.
posted by the existence of stars below the horizon at 4:56 PM on July 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
NT Chief Minister Adam Giles is "shocked and disgusted"
I'll bet. Shocked that people would want him to let people out of the big concrete hole that he wanted to keep them locked in forever.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 8:21 PM on July 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'll bet. Shocked that people would want him to let people out of the big concrete hole that he wanted to keep them locked in forever.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 8:21 PM on July 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm glad His thoughts were red thoughts dug that up on Minister Giles. It's shocking and disgusting (though unsurprising, given the state of government in this country) that someone with such an attitude was given the Correctional Services portfolio.
This inconvenient fact headlined in today's excellent edition of Crikey, which also notes (via Darwin lawyer Matt Punch) that much of what was shown is, in fact, legal in the Northern Territory, via equal parts specific and deliberately loose legislation. It neatly puts the lie to PM Turnbull's statement that these practices were hitherto "unrevealed."
Kids, just kids with already limited options and difficult lives and this is how we allowed the business of detention to handle them. Shocking, indeed, and so very, very sad.
posted by Lesser Spotted Potoroo at 5:37 AM on July 27, 2016
This inconvenient fact headlined in today's excellent edition of Crikey, which also notes (via Darwin lawyer Matt Punch) that much of what was shown is, in fact, legal in the Northern Territory, via equal parts specific and deliberately loose legislation. It neatly puts the lie to PM Turnbull's statement that these practices were hitherto "unrevealed."
Kids, just kids with already limited options and difficult lives and this is how we allowed the business of detention to handle them. Shocking, indeed, and so very, very sad.
posted by Lesser Spotted Potoroo at 5:37 AM on July 27, 2016
I don't see how a Royal Commission will help if nothing will actually change.
It probably won't especially since Brian Martin is running it, and he thinks that white boys getting drunk and beating homeless aboriginal men to death is all a bit 'boys will be boys'. Plus the NT government will be involved, which is a massive conflict of interest since they were the ones perpetrating the abuse. So it's doomed to fail, I think.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:31 PM on July 28, 2016
It probably won't especially since Brian Martin is running it, and he thinks that white boys getting drunk and beating homeless aboriginal men to death is all a bit 'boys will be boys'. Plus the NT government will be involved, which is a massive conflict of interest since they were the ones perpetrating the abuse. So it's doomed to fail, I think.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:31 PM on July 28, 2016
So, get this - the NT government is now suing their juvenile torture victims for trying to escape from being tortured.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:43 PM on July 28, 2016
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:43 PM on July 28, 2016
Giles and his government face an election in 11 days, and all signs are that he and his government are going to be beaten to a bloody pulp by the voters, and told in no uncertain terms to leave town.
It's a start.
posted by Pouteria at 8:36 AM on July 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's a start.
posted by Pouteria at 8:36 AM on July 29, 2016 [2 favorites]
Giles and his government face an election in 11 days,...
Er, that would be in 28 days (on 27th August).
posted by Pouteria at 6:18 PM on July 29, 2016
Er, that would be in 28 days (on 27th August).
posted by Pouteria at 6:18 PM on July 29, 2016
I don't see how a Royal Commission will help if nothing will actually change.
It probably won't especially since Brian Martin is running it
Martin has stepped down. Mick Gooda and Margaret White now running it. I understand your cynicism about Martin, HTWRT, but you're putting words in his mouth he didn't actually say, and his resignation shows he is taking this whole matter pretty bloody seriously.
I just want to take a moment to praise Turnbull for the speedy response to this. Great to see. He's got my continued support as PM and I think he's handled a few things really well so far.
Also, I'm going to be curmudgeonly and point out that you don't abandon an issue just because circumstances have shifted and there's no more liberal axe to grind. There are real problems here and they desperately need solutions, so could we please keep this going somewhat? Liberals ranting about the next big injustice then moving on is actually part of the problem - they need to see situations through to solutions. So let's keep this thread going at least for the month perhaps.
posted by iffthen at 8:14 PM on August 1, 2016
It probably won't especially since Brian Martin is running it
Martin has stepped down. Mick Gooda and Margaret White now running it. I understand your cynicism about Martin, HTWRT, but you're putting words in his mouth he didn't actually say, and his resignation shows he is taking this whole matter pretty bloody seriously.
I just want to take a moment to praise Turnbull for the speedy response to this. Great to see. He's got my continued support as PM and I think he's handled a few things really well so far.
Also, I'm going to be curmudgeonly and point out that you don't abandon an issue just because circumstances have shifted and there's no more liberal axe to grind. There are real problems here and they desperately need solutions, so could we please keep this going somewhat? Liberals ranting about the next big injustice then moving on is actually part of the problem - they need to see situations through to solutions. So let's keep this thread going at least for the month perhaps.
posted by iffthen at 8:14 PM on August 1, 2016
(I mean small-l liberals above, not the party; mentioning this because it's the first word in the sentence and hence ambiguous)
posted by iffthen at 8:15 PM on August 1, 2016
posted by iffthen at 8:15 PM on August 1, 2016
I understand your cynicism about Martin, HTWRT, but you're putting words in his mouth he didn't actually say, and his resignation shows he is taking this whole matter pretty bloody seriously.
I was paraphrasing, not quoting, but what he actually said is far worse, given that he characterised the gang beating of a homeless man to death as “manslaughter by negligence”. That's an actual quote.
He also described that gang beating of a homeless man to death as "toward the lower end of the scale of seriousness for crimes of manslaughter".
He described the young men who, again, beat a homeless man to death as being "otherwise of good character", despite the fact that their killing a man was the culmination of a night where they all got hammered and drove through Aboriginal townships terrorising people, including driving down a riverbed in the dark when they knew that homeless people routinely slept there. It's a miracle they didn't kill anyone else.
Finally, he gave them all light sentences on the basis that they would experience "additional hardship" in prison, given the majority of inmates were Aboriginal. That is, he used the fact that they committed a hate crime against Aboriginal people as a reason to give them a lower sentence.
It's not the whole of his career - it's one case. But it's enough to make his appointment to head a Royal Commission regarding a situation with obvious racial issues a very foolish decision.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:26 PM on August 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
I was paraphrasing, not quoting, but what he actually said is far worse, given that he characterised the gang beating of a homeless man to death as “manslaughter by negligence”. That's an actual quote.
He also described that gang beating of a homeless man to death as "toward the lower end of the scale of seriousness for crimes of manslaughter".
He described the young men who, again, beat a homeless man to death as being "otherwise of good character", despite the fact that their killing a man was the culmination of a night where they all got hammered and drove through Aboriginal townships terrorising people, including driving down a riverbed in the dark when they knew that homeless people routinely slept there. It's a miracle they didn't kill anyone else.
Finally, he gave them all light sentences on the basis that they would experience "additional hardship" in prison, given the majority of inmates were Aboriginal. That is, he used the fact that they committed a hate crime against Aboriginal people as a reason to give them a lower sentence.
It's not the whole of his career - it's one case. But it's enough to make his appointment to head a Royal Commission regarding a situation with obvious racial issues a very foolish decision.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:26 PM on August 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
Thanks for the additional context. (I'm not familiar with his history generally and the linked article didn't give enough background.)
Update: NT government hasn't yet dropped suit against against tear-gassed kids.
posted by iffthen at 12:41 AM on August 6, 2016
Update: NT government hasn't yet dropped suit against against tear-gassed kids.
posted by iffthen at 12:41 AM on August 6, 2016
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