"vomit is the limit of comfortable punishment"
July 26, 2016 8:49 AM Subscribe
The Truth About VR And Vomit "In flight simulators, the Navy has perhaps the most practical application of something resembling VR, and their research is focused on how they can minimize sickness and how well people can accomplish tasks while nauseated. On the other hand, when your goal is enjoyment of a game or movie, your threshold is probably lower, but maybe vomit in entertainment has a different appeal—it’s disgusting, but powerful and noteworthy, and it seems to keep coming up in popular art and culture in a way that other bodily functions don’t."
'Resident Evil 7' in VR is a sweaty, puke-inducing masterpiece
Simulator Sickness
To Reduce VR Sickness, Add A Virtual Nose
'Resident Evil 7' in VR is a sweaty, puke-inducing masterpiece
Simulator Sickness
To Reduce VR Sickness, Add A Virtual Nose
Can game music and sound combat VR sickness? (VRINFLUX)
posted by Kabanos at 9:15 AM on July 26, 2016
posted by Kabanos at 9:15 AM on July 26, 2016
The VR era has been just a round the corner for 20 years now. Honorary fusion reactor status!
posted by thelonius at 9:18 AM on July 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 9:18 AM on July 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
Most of the sickness will go away when we stop being so silly about latency requirements. We run at many framerates and 60hz is not many of them.
posted by effugas at 9:21 AM on July 26, 2016
posted by effugas at 9:21 AM on July 26, 2016
The VR era has been just a round the corner for 20 years now. Honorary fusion reactor status!
At what point previously was there an accessible and good VR setup consumers could buy with at least some half-decent games available?
posted by Mitrovarr at 9:21 AM on July 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
At what point previously was there an accessible and good VR setup consumers could buy with at least some half-decent games available?
posted by Mitrovarr at 9:21 AM on July 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Nausea potential is my single biggest issue with both VR and driverless cars. Unless we figure out good workarounds or treatments in both cases, it's going to be a significant barrier for a subset of the population.
posted by terretu at 9:22 AM on July 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by terretu at 9:22 AM on July 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
I've never been susceptible to motion sickness while gaming before VR. I don't know if it'll get me with it, but I still want to get a headset and see if some version of descent can be convince to work on it.
posted by Mitrovarr at 9:28 AM on July 26, 2016
posted by Mitrovarr at 9:28 AM on July 26, 2016
I still want to get a headset and see if some version of descent can be convince to work on it.Descent was the one first-person 3D game I've ever played that gave me nearly instant motion sickness, it must have been something to do with that extra Z-axis of motion.
posted by usonian at 9:36 AM on July 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
I can't play Dragon Age: Inquisition because it makes me motion sick. I want to play it, but there is something about the camera that I just can't handle.
I honestly think that motion sickness isn't taken as seriously as it should be when it comes to developing technologies that cause it. Once VR is more common than it is now, there are going to be a lot of people who are left out. This will be a big deal if VR is a major format for cultural works. Or, imagine VR classrooms--that would be terrible.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 9:37 AM on July 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I honestly think that motion sickness isn't taken as seriously as it should be when it comes to developing technologies that cause it. Once VR is more common than it is now, there are going to be a lot of people who are left out. This will be a big deal if VR is a major format for cultural works. Or, imagine VR classrooms--that would be terrible.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 9:37 AM on July 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
"The VR era has been just a round the corner for 20 years now. Honorary fusion reactor status!"
It's already here. On my belt is a pouch containing my smart phone and a pair of folding glasses that, when slid over my smartphone, turn it into a barebones Google Cardboard VR headset.
posted by I-baLL at 10:21 AM on July 26, 2016
It's already here. On my belt is a pouch containing my smart phone and a pair of folding glasses that, when slid over my smartphone, turn it into a barebones Google Cardboard VR headset.
posted by I-baLL at 10:21 AM on July 26, 2016
wot, citation for John Waters but none for "fetch the bucket?" Tut tut.
posted by mwhybark at 10:23 AM on July 26, 2016
posted by mwhybark at 10:23 AM on July 26, 2016
I honestly think that motion sickness isn't taken as seriously as it should be when it comes to developing technologies that cause it.
My understanding is that it is being taken extremely seriously. It's not just the case that some people can't use it, it's the case that no-one can use it unless various conditions are met and from that point on their potential market size is directly proportional to motion sickness. There are medical specialists from a variety of fields on the payroll collaborating to figure out solutions. They're approaching the problem from various different angles (in addition to game design).
That doesn't mean the problem isn't intractable, but whether it is or isn't, it's receiving a lot of focus.
posted by anonymisc at 10:24 AM on July 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
My understanding is that it is being taken extremely seriously. It's not just the case that some people can't use it, it's the case that no-one can use it unless various conditions are met and from that point on their potential market size is directly proportional to motion sickness. There are medical specialists from a variety of fields on the payroll collaborating to figure out solutions. They're approaching the problem from various different angles (in addition to game design).
That doesn't mean the problem isn't intractable, but whether it is or isn't, it's receiving a lot of focus.
posted by anonymisc at 10:24 AM on July 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
My toddler recently was so excited to ride the merry-go-round that he stayed on until he threw up. Now he regularly reminds me, "I frow up merry go round."
That's all I've got.
posted by medusa at 10:25 AM on July 26, 2016 [16 favorites]
That's all I've got.
posted by medusa at 10:25 AM on July 26, 2016 [16 favorites]
I have been playing around with an Oculus, and have demoed it for a couple dozen people (young and old), so here are my observations on VR and motion sickness:
1) There is a large class of games/experiences where there is no problem for anyone ever. Games where you are stationary, or games where you are looking into the world (3rd person perspective, controlling what feel like tiny models) are perfectly fine. Movies in which you stay in place or move slowly in a linear way (boat on a calm lake) are also fine.
2) There is a class of motion games that seemed to have solved the sickness problem. Weirdly, the two best ways seem to have visual tricks involved - if you put someone in a cockpit or make them move by teleporting short distances, you don't feel sick. If you get somewhere by walking, you also don't get sick.
3) There is a class of games which might be sickening for some people - flying is usually rough, as is driving (again, cockpits help). Much worse are games where you loop or bank.
In short, I think this is a potential problem, but there seems to be hopeful signs that it can be overcome for most applications and most people. Flying like Superman will make a lot of people sick (until we figure out some better approach), but the most amazing things I have experienced in VR all work fine for everyone I have demoed them to: 360 movies of the landing of the Falcon 9, or that give you the experience of being onstage at Carnegie Hall; virtual environments where you encounter dinosaurs; 3D trips around the solar system; or really immersive puzzle games.
posted by blahblahblah at 10:31 AM on July 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
1) There is a large class of games/experiences where there is no problem for anyone ever. Games where you are stationary, or games where you are looking into the world (3rd person perspective, controlling what feel like tiny models) are perfectly fine. Movies in which you stay in place or move slowly in a linear way (boat on a calm lake) are also fine.
2) There is a class of motion games that seemed to have solved the sickness problem. Weirdly, the two best ways seem to have visual tricks involved - if you put someone in a cockpit or make them move by teleporting short distances, you don't feel sick. If you get somewhere by walking, you also don't get sick.
3) There is a class of games which might be sickening for some people - flying is usually rough, as is driving (again, cockpits help). Much worse are games where you loop or bank.
In short, I think this is a potential problem, but there seems to be hopeful signs that it can be overcome for most applications and most people. Flying like Superman will make a lot of people sick (until we figure out some better approach), but the most amazing things I have experienced in VR all work fine for everyone I have demoed them to: 360 movies of the landing of the Falcon 9, or that give you the experience of being onstage at Carnegie Hall; virtual environments where you encounter dinosaurs; 3D trips around the solar system; or really immersive puzzle games.
posted by blahblahblah at 10:31 AM on July 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
The risk of throwing up hasn't stopped people drinking yet.
(In general. It stopped me pretty rapidly)
posted by BinaryApe at 10:35 AM on July 26, 2016
(In general. It stopped me pretty rapidly)
posted by BinaryApe at 10:35 AM on July 26, 2016
it seems to keep coming up
we see what ya did there
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:42 AM on July 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
we see what ya did there
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:42 AM on July 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
"I frow up merry go round."
Eh, politics. What can you do?
posted by BlueHorse at 10:54 AM on July 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Eh, politics. What can you do?
posted by BlueHorse at 10:54 AM on July 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
When I was a kid I would get super nauseous playing Castle Wolfenstein (or is it Wolfenstain?). Yet I would keep coming back to it, only to get super nauseous again after 5 minutes.
Still to this day I tell myself that I'll be fine and end up getting sick after 5-10 min of playing an FPS. I sort of conditioned myself not to get sick when I played Portal 2 (only threw up once!) and managed to beat it, but its been a while since I've played and I unfortunately get nauseous very quickly again.
I want to publicly commend publishers who actually allow you to tweak settings like field of view, headbob, ability to play in 3rd person, etc (I'm looking at you Talos Principle!). There are so many games I would love to play (Layers of Fear you are so pretty and you make me have to lie down for an hour after playong for 10 min), but unfortunately you can't tweak the settings that much and I just end up getting sick.
I must be masochistic, because I really want to try out Occulus Rift.
posted by littlesq at 11:01 AM on July 26, 2016
Still to this day I tell myself that I'll be fine and end up getting sick after 5-10 min of playing an FPS. I sort of conditioned myself not to get sick when I played Portal 2 (only threw up once!) and managed to beat it, but its been a while since I've played and I unfortunately get nauseous very quickly again.
I want to publicly commend publishers who actually allow you to tweak settings like field of view, headbob, ability to play in 3rd person, etc (I'm looking at you Talos Principle!). There are so many games I would love to play (Layers of Fear you are so pretty and you make me have to lie down for an hour after playong for 10 min), but unfortunately you can't tweak the settings that much and I just end up getting sick.
I must be masochistic, because I really want to try out Occulus Rift.
posted by littlesq at 11:01 AM on July 26, 2016
I had a fear of vomiting for most of my life, then I got horribly sick at 25 and it turned into full-on PTSD. Stuff like VR sounds great, but I've known and accepted for a long time that it just isn't for me. The risk of being sick just isn't worth it. And that's ok.
posted by teponaztli at 11:47 AM on July 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by teponaztli at 11:47 AM on July 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I've been a full-time VR developer for about two and a half years now and this articles drive me nuts because it's they always seem to miss the point.
Yes, the original Oculus dev kits were pro-barf. But the newer HMDs, like the HTC Vive, have virtually eliminated the problem. I've been using the Vive 30+ minutes a day since we got our first 3D printed dev kit and never once felt ill except when we had lousy performance in a development environment.
Framerate is a big contributor to nausea, as is artificial acceleration or moving in a way that would be impossible (Like, say, an exorcist-style 360 head rotation). Some of these issues have been solved on the tech-side (Vive's enforced 90FPS/hz refresh), but many of them need to be solved to by developers (I should not accelerate you, I should always make sure you have a clear horizon line, etc.)
At any rate, I feel like this is not an issue inherent to the technology, but rather a growing pain as the tech evolves and developers establish better rules for user comfort.
posted by GilloD at 11:54 AM on July 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Yes, the original Oculus dev kits were pro-barf. But the newer HMDs, like the HTC Vive, have virtually eliminated the problem. I've been using the Vive 30+ minutes a day since we got our first 3D printed dev kit and never once felt ill except when we had lousy performance in a development environment.
Framerate is a big contributor to nausea, as is artificial acceleration or moving in a way that would be impossible (Like, say, an exorcist-style 360 head rotation). Some of these issues have been solved on the tech-side (Vive's enforced 90FPS/hz refresh), but many of them need to be solved to by developers (I should not accelerate you, I should always make sure you have a clear horizon line, etc.)
At any rate, I feel like this is not an issue inherent to the technology, but rather a growing pain as the tech evolves and developers establish better rules for user comfort.
posted by GilloD at 11:54 AM on July 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
I've found that in "room scale" VR (where you physically walk around a small [~3m x 3m] space) on the Vive motion sickness is very rare, whereas in a seated or standing experience on the Rift pretty much everyone gets nauseated to some extent. Being able to walk around physically, even a tiny bit, seems to help immensely.
posted by Pyry at 12:03 PM on July 26, 2016
posted by Pyry at 12:03 PM on July 26, 2016
I've never been susceptible to motion sickness while gaming before VR. I don't know if it'll get me with it, but I still want to get a headset and see if some version of descent can be convince to work on it.
I played some Sublevel Zero, a kind of spiritual successor to Descent, on a DK2 with a HOTAS setup. It was a lot of fun. I didn't feel motion sick, but I seem to be one of those people who never feels substantial motion sickness in VR.
posted by value of information at 12:16 PM on July 26, 2016
I played some Sublevel Zero, a kind of spiritual successor to Descent, on a DK2 with a HOTAS setup. It was a lot of fun. I didn't feel motion sick, but I seem to be one of those people who never feels substantial motion sickness in VR.
posted by value of information at 12:16 PM on July 26, 2016
I just wanted to point out that I don't get motion-sick--airsick, carsick, sick playing video games, nothing.
I mainly wanted to bring this fact up because it annoys Mrs. Example, who gets carsick while trying to read on a bus, to no end.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:25 PM on July 26, 2016
I mainly wanted to bring this fact up because it annoys Mrs. Example, who gets carsick while trying to read on a bus, to no end.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:25 PM on July 26, 2016
The VR era has been just a round the corner for 20 years now. Honorary fusion reactor status!
Delete your account. j/k
I know what you're saying but that's not a valid criticism here. We're not talking about the promise of a technology that is coming down the pipe, we're criticizing real issues with real products that I can go and buy right now. In what world are we still waiting for VR to come around the corner. It's come around the corner, we might have tossed our cookies when we saw it, but it rounded the damn corner.
No matter what problem it might have. If I can order a fusion reactor from Amazon, it's arrived.
posted by VTX at 2:15 PM on July 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Delete your account. j/k
I know what you're saying but that's not a valid criticism here. We're not talking about the promise of a technology that is coming down the pipe, we're criticizing real issues with real products that I can go and buy right now. In what world are we still waiting for VR to come around the corner. It's come around the corner, we might have tossed our cookies when we saw it, but it rounded the damn corner.
No matter what problem it might have. If I can order a fusion reactor from Amazon, it's arrived.
posted by VTX at 2:15 PM on July 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yes, the original Oculus dev kits were pro-barf. But the newer HMDs, like the HTC Vive, have virtually eliminated the problem. I've been using the Vive 30+ minutes a day since we got our first 3D printed dev kit and never once felt ill except when we had lousy performance in a development environment.
This sounds like my experience. The first Oculus made me feel sketchy but I've had no problem with the Vive. The longest I've used continuously is an hour and half straight and it was no problem. The group I was with was demoing a whole bunch of different games and straight experiences and the rest of the group was fine as well.
I know one VR developer who said that he had problems with nausea when he first started working with it but it went away the more they used it.
I attended a VR conference last month and can also attest that the issue is being taken very seriously both in the hardware and software design side. One panelist talked about the findings that between 5 - 10% of people have some sort of focal point issue where one eye focusing slight off from the other. Apologies for not remembering what it is called. Most people that have it never would notice but it shows up when using VR. Apparently this issue has been shown to correct itself after using VR for a while. The brain adjusts.
I've recently started building a small app for Google Cardboard and as soon as the new phones come out will be looking at working with Googles new phone platform. Most of what I'm right now is figuring out all of the best design practices for user comfort. It's pretty interesting so far.
Also it might seem like a no brainer but I have had to point it out to several people who have tried Google Cardboard and said it made them feel ill. One of the most popular experiences that people seem to try is some sort of roller coaster or similar experience where you're flying and swooping around cause it's fun. These are not the best apps for figuring out if VR makes you feel ill and off kilter for what I hope are obvious reasons.
posted by Jalliah at 2:42 PM on July 26, 2016
This sounds like my experience. The first Oculus made me feel sketchy but I've had no problem with the Vive. The longest I've used continuously is an hour and half straight and it was no problem. The group I was with was demoing a whole bunch of different games and straight experiences and the rest of the group was fine as well.
I know one VR developer who said that he had problems with nausea when he first started working with it but it went away the more they used it.
I attended a VR conference last month and can also attest that the issue is being taken very seriously both in the hardware and software design side. One panelist talked about the findings that between 5 - 10% of people have some sort of focal point issue where one eye focusing slight off from the other. Apologies for not remembering what it is called. Most people that have it never would notice but it shows up when using VR. Apparently this issue has been shown to correct itself after using VR for a while. The brain adjusts.
I've recently started building a small app for Google Cardboard and as soon as the new phones come out will be looking at working with Googles new phone platform. Most of what I'm right now is figuring out all of the best design practices for user comfort. It's pretty interesting so far.
Also it might seem like a no brainer but I have had to point it out to several people who have tried Google Cardboard and said it made them feel ill. One of the most popular experiences that people seem to try is some sort of roller coaster or similar experience where you're flying and swooping around cause it's fun. These are not the best apps for figuring out if VR makes you feel ill and off kilter for what I hope are obvious reasons.
posted by Jalliah at 2:42 PM on July 26, 2016
My girlfriend is an emetophobe but I'm in charge of the remote, so when we're watching something I have to be hyperaware of potential on-screen vomit scenarios so I can hit 'mute' (she already knows to look away).
Vomit is overwhelmingly in American media, and the most common scenario is a cop entering a room where a murder has happened. It's meant to make us, the viewer, realise how brutal and edgy the murder has been, unlike any murder that has ever before happened, but actually just makes me think about how useless and inexperienced and unfit for the job the cop must be.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:21 PM on July 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
Vomit is overwhelmingly in American media, and the most common scenario is a cop entering a room where a murder has happened. It's meant to make us, the viewer, realise how brutal and edgy the murder has been, unlike any murder that has ever before happened, but actually just makes me think about how useless and inexperienced and unfit for the job the cop must be.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:21 PM on July 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's already here. On my belt is a pouch containing my smart phone and a pair of folding glasses that, when slid over my smartphone, turn it into a barebones Google Cardboard VR headset.
I have Linux on my desktop.
posted by Artw at 5:07 PM on July 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have Linux on my desktop.
posted by Artw at 5:07 PM on July 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, the CR version of Rift with a powerful enough computer has had no issues for me, while I got occasional issues with the DK2.
Resolution and latency are the key, and in a couple more iterations I suspect those will be high enough for the vast majority of people to enjoy.
It may not be solvable for everyone. I know people who can barely take a 10 minute car ride due to nausea, but that doesn't mean we don't use a lot of cars. The tech will get better for most people, but there may well be an outlying edge of people who can never use it because of the way their bodies work.
It also matters what kind of experience you go for, as others say. I can spend hours playing Elite Dangerous in VR, because I'm sitting in a virtual cockpit and controlling the movement myself. A VR experience where you're jumping all over the place with no control (and thus no expectation of where you will move) is much more likley to be unpleasant (as it probably would be in real life!).
posted by thefoxgod at 7:32 PM on July 26, 2016
Resolution and latency are the key, and in a couple more iterations I suspect those will be high enough for the vast majority of people to enjoy.
It may not be solvable for everyone. I know people who can barely take a 10 minute car ride due to nausea, but that doesn't mean we don't use a lot of cars. The tech will get better for most people, but there may well be an outlying edge of people who can never use it because of the way their bodies work.
It also matters what kind of experience you go for, as others say. I can spend hours playing Elite Dangerous in VR, because I'm sitting in a virtual cockpit and controlling the movement myself. A VR experience where you're jumping all over the place with no control (and thus no expectation of where you will move) is much more likley to be unpleasant (as it probably would be in real life!).
posted by thefoxgod at 7:32 PM on July 26, 2016
The problem with Google Cardboard is latency. It can also be a problem with Rift/Vive if your PC is sluggish. When your vision is lagging hundreds of milliseconds behind your movements, it's going to make you nauseous easily.
posted by thefoxgod at 7:33 PM on July 26, 2016
posted by thefoxgod at 7:33 PM on July 26, 2016
One panelist talked about the findings that between 5 - 10% of people have some sort of focal point issue where one eye focusing slight off from the other.
Yeah, I forgot to mention that VR makes me especially nauseous because my pupils don't line up (by more than 10%, I think). I actually started wearing glasses last year just to correct this. It drastically reduced the number of headaches I got, and dramatically increased the number of accusations of being a hipster with fake glasses (because there's just a prism in one of the lenses). The optomologist did tell me specifically about the link with motion sickness, which finally explained why I could never do something like watch a movie in 3D without feeling gross.
posted by teponaztli at 7:34 PM on July 26, 2016
Yeah, I forgot to mention that VR makes me especially nauseous because my pupils don't line up (by more than 10%, I think). I actually started wearing glasses last year just to correct this. It drastically reduced the number of headaches I got, and dramatically increased the number of accusations of being a hipster with fake glasses (because there's just a prism in one of the lenses). The optomologist did tell me specifically about the link with motion sickness, which finally explained why I could never do something like watch a movie in 3D without feeling gross.
posted by teponaztli at 7:34 PM on July 26, 2016
I have a Vive and have used it for hours each week for months. It's great and unlike anything else.
That said .. I have never in my life been motion sick, but I honestly cannot play synthetic motion games at all without becoming genuinely sick. Walking around or even hopping (jogging locomotion) and I'm totally fine, the rest makes me sick in a way that I could not even begin to describe; persistently unbelievably sick. I thought my primary use case would be seated cockpit games like Elite but I cannot tolerate them.
It's not really about "powerful machine" since I have that covered.
posted by rr at 8:38 PM on July 26, 2016
That said .. I have never in my life been motion sick, but I honestly cannot play synthetic motion games at all without becoming genuinely sick. Walking around or even hopping (jogging locomotion) and I'm totally fine, the rest makes me sick in a way that I could not even begin to describe; persistently unbelievably sick. I thought my primary use case would be seated cockpit games like Elite but I cannot tolerate them.
It's not really about "powerful machine" since I have that covered.
posted by rr at 8:38 PM on July 26, 2016
The other thing that distinguishes Rift/Vive from Cardboard is positional tracking. If you tried the very first version of Rift, that also didn't have positional tracking. They all track the direction of your head, but the better ones track the position as well, and for a lot of people, that makes a huge difference in the risk of motion sickness.
Though if you're then moving the player according to gamepad or whatever, you bring that risk back, which I gather is what happened with the Resident Evil demo.
I think if VR is going to really take off, it's going to be with genres that play to its strengths, but a lot of people trying to import an existing genre are playing to its weaknesses.
posted by RobotHero at 9:29 PM on July 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
Though if you're then moving the player according to gamepad or whatever, you bring that risk back, which I gather is what happened with the Resident Evil demo.
I think if VR is going to really take off, it's going to be with genres that play to its strengths, but a lot of people trying to import an existing genre are playing to its weaknesses.
posted by RobotHero at 9:29 PM on July 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I get nausea pretty easily by playing most any FPS. So when I tried VR glasses it was pretty uncomfortable, lots of little cues that just seemed off. I think the tech will grow to fix most of these but what really struck me is that it feels like work. It's not something you can do casually or in the background. So I think it will be a bit like video calling or teleconferencing: it really works and some people use it all the time, but for a lot of people it is (also) frustrating and exhausting, and text messaging on the whole is more convenient.
posted by dmh at 2:55 AM on July 27, 2016
posted by dmh at 2:55 AM on July 27, 2016
There's an entire unexplored field of science in nausea that only seems to be becoming relevant now because VR has come along, but which may have much broader applications. The things we are discovering right now could potentially help lessen the suffering of the millions affected by motion sickness in real life.
Here's a few points that have only really started to be discussed in the past few months:
- It's becoming clear that having a fixed point of focus as a frame of reference lessens nausea. This can be a cockpit, as discussed above, but can also be just be a fixed object that is the centre of attention. For example, in driving games it's common to have a third-person view of your car from behind, which acts as the focus of attention and seems to reduce nausea. What's not so clear is that a main character in a third-person platformer seems to still work as a frame of reference, despite them naturally jumping around a lot and not really being fixed.
- Nausea seems to depend on your peripheral vision. There's a recent paper on how restricting the viewer's field of view, even so slightly as to be almost unnoticeable, can relieve the symptoms. There's a VR demo I have seen where you are provided with a set of magic binoculars which you can put to you eyes and zoom in on a distant location, but when you remove them you find you have actually moved to that place. The slight restriction in FOV that the binoculars provide is all it takes to stop the 'zoom' motion feeling like a potentially nauseous 'transit' motion.
- There also is an effect that has been discussed colloquially, but hasn't really been demonstrated properly yet. It seems that its possible to move by dragging your viewpoint around, literally grabbing the world with a motion controller and moving it around like it was just another object, and it's suggested that this doesn't cause nausea. If this is true, then there might be some connection between hand-eye co-ordination and nausea that we haven't quite understood yet.
posted by Eleven at 3:38 AM on July 27, 2016
Here's a few points that have only really started to be discussed in the past few months:
- It's becoming clear that having a fixed point of focus as a frame of reference lessens nausea. This can be a cockpit, as discussed above, but can also be just be a fixed object that is the centre of attention. For example, in driving games it's common to have a third-person view of your car from behind, which acts as the focus of attention and seems to reduce nausea. What's not so clear is that a main character in a third-person platformer seems to still work as a frame of reference, despite them naturally jumping around a lot and not really being fixed.
- Nausea seems to depend on your peripheral vision. There's a recent paper on how restricting the viewer's field of view, even so slightly as to be almost unnoticeable, can relieve the symptoms. There's a VR demo I have seen where you are provided with a set of magic binoculars which you can put to you eyes and zoom in on a distant location, but when you remove them you find you have actually moved to that place. The slight restriction in FOV that the binoculars provide is all it takes to stop the 'zoom' motion feeling like a potentially nauseous 'transit' motion.
- There also is an effect that has been discussed colloquially, but hasn't really been demonstrated properly yet. It seems that its possible to move by dragging your viewpoint around, literally grabbing the world with a motion controller and moving it around like it was just another object, and it's suggested that this doesn't cause nausea. If this is true, then there might be some connection between hand-eye co-ordination and nausea that we haven't quite understood yet.
posted by Eleven at 3:38 AM on July 27, 2016
>The VR era has been just a round the corner for 20 years now. Honorary fusion reactor status!
In what world are we still waiting for VR to come around the corner.
The fact that you can buy Bitcoin does not make this the era of digital currency.
Adoption will have to be far more widespread than the "Can blow $1000+ on a dedicated setup" crowd and practical VR applications will need to become common before we talk about a new era.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:57 AM on July 27, 2016
In what world are we still waiting for VR to come around the corner.
The fact that you can buy Bitcoin does not make this the era of digital currency.
Adoption will have to be far more widespread than the "Can blow $1000+ on a dedicated setup" crowd and practical VR applications will need to become common before we talk about a new era.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:57 AM on July 27, 2016
I am prone to motion sickness, but (so long as I don't read anything in a moving car) not so much that it interferes regularly with my daily life. But I can't ride the new-ish amusement park rides where you watch a movie while the car you're sitting in moves around. I was super excited to go to the Harry Potter park at Universal, and found I spent the entire ride looking at my feet so I wouldn't throw up. And that was aimed at kids.
I really want to go back and try again (wearing seabands? prescription motion sickness medications? I have no idea) (help?), I hate that I couldn't enjoy it and that I missed out on what looks like a lot of fun, but the experience was so unpleasant that I don't know if I ever will. VR just seems like an automatic Nope to me, and I hate that -- I'm not scared, I'm excited by the technology, I want to experience it, but not at the cost of the way I feel when I can't maintain equilibrium.
posted by Mchelly at 11:45 AM on July 27, 2016
I really want to go back and try again (wearing seabands? prescription motion sickness medications? I have no idea) (help?), I hate that I couldn't enjoy it and that I missed out on what looks like a lot of fun, but the experience was so unpleasant that I don't know if I ever will. VR just seems like an automatic Nope to me, and I hate that -- I'm not scared, I'm excited by the technology, I want to experience it, but not at the cost of the way I feel when I can't maintain equilibrium.
posted by Mchelly at 11:45 AM on July 27, 2016
Adoption will have to be far more widespread than the "Can blow $1000+ on a dedicated setup" crowd and practical VR applications will need to become common before we talk about a new era.
I very strongly disagree. Things like the Virtual Boy and other early false starts will be pointed to as the early precursors and the current crop of products will be the ones that define the start of the modern VR era of gaming.
Much like Pong and some other early machines were precursors to the Atari 2600 (the first modern game console). The 8-bit NES was where it started to go main stream and predict that the 2nd generation VR systems will be a lot closer to that.
But the comparison to Fusion power is WAY off-base. To date, the only sustained fusion reaction that actually puts out more power than it takes the sustain the reaction anywhere close to us remains the sun.
You can't tell me that if there were a dozen fusion power plants up and running, maybe still with some kinks to work out, but more-or-less reliably generating power that fusion reactors are still "just around the corner".
It's already common for gamers to blow over $1,000 on their systems. I did and I know folks who've spent more than $3,000 without having anything to do with VR and it's a $100 billion per year industry. That "practical VR applications" thing has nothing to do with it. Playing videos games is a practical application and I find it insulting that you don't think it is.
posted by VTX at 7:35 AM on July 28, 2016
I very strongly disagree. Things like the Virtual Boy and other early false starts will be pointed to as the early precursors and the current crop of products will be the ones that define the start of the modern VR era of gaming.
Much like Pong and some other early machines were precursors to the Atari 2600 (the first modern game console). The 8-bit NES was where it started to go main stream and predict that the 2nd generation VR systems will be a lot closer to that.
But the comparison to Fusion power is WAY off-base. To date, the only sustained fusion reaction that actually puts out more power than it takes the sustain the reaction anywhere close to us remains the sun.
You can't tell me that if there were a dozen fusion power plants up and running, maybe still with some kinks to work out, but more-or-less reliably generating power that fusion reactors are still "just around the corner".
It's already common for gamers to blow over $1,000 on their systems. I did and I know folks who've spent more than $3,000 without having anything to do with VR and it's a $100 billion per year industry. That "practical VR applications" thing has nothing to do with it. Playing videos games is a practical application and I find it insulting that you don't think it is.
posted by VTX at 7:35 AM on July 28, 2016
The fact that you can buy Bitcoin does not make this the era of digital currency.
Of course not. The fact that we use our cards and phones to pay for things and only use cash when we have to is what makes this the era of digital currency.
posted by hellphish at 12:36 PM on July 28, 2016
Of course not. The fact that we use our cards and phones to pay for things and only use cash when we have to is what makes this the era of digital currency.
posted by hellphish at 12:36 PM on July 28, 2016
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Have never played to the point of vomiting. Not sure there's any game worth that.
posted by asperity at 9:03 AM on July 26, 2016