"Like most fedora wearers, he had a lot of inexplicable confidence."
July 27, 2016 9:55 PM   Subscribe

Starbucks wants its baristas to wear fedoras and other awful hatsThe fedora is meme shorthand for so many things, but perhaps most succinctly, it conveys the attitude of a male with poor hygiene, a Reddit addiction, and the firm belief that women keep putting him in the "friend zone" while dating assholes despite the fact that he's a "nice guy"—which is a thin cover for immature and often repellent ideas about gender roles.

Slightly less-snarky article from the Washington Post.

Fedoras previously.
posted by Johnny Wallflower (369 comments total) 18 users marked this as a favorite
 
can we let the fedora meme die already
posted by p3on at 9:57 PM on July 27, 2016 [33 favorites]


"It's not a fedora you cuck it's a trilby" is easily the most 2016 thing ever said.
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:59 PM on July 27, 2016 [126 favorites]


Is this in partnership with reddit?
posted by guiseroom at 10:02 PM on July 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


I wish people hadn't managed to ruin every hat except the baseball cap, and maybe a few kinds of winter hat.
posted by Mitrovarr at 10:03 PM on July 27, 2016 [31 favorites]


god damn it the hat is called a trilby

why did I have to go and pick such a fraught username
posted by DoctorFedora at 10:07 PM on July 27, 2016 [80 favorites]


fedoras make perfectly fine winter hats, or even really just non-summer hats
posted by DoctorFedora at 10:08 PM on July 27, 2016 [8 favorites]


I liked fedoras back in the day when wearing one only meant that you enjoyed Indiana Jones movies a little more than might be healthy.
posted by Mitrovarr at 10:10 PM on July 27, 2016 [81 favorites]


Our office has no dress code, but one thing that I've noticed for a while is that a good 90% of shirts and pants that people are wearing are in the white/grey/black/blue/brown spectrum of the Starbucks acceptable color palette anyway. I kind of get why (jeans and khakis are popular) but the shirts thing I never understood. Are bright colors just not in fashion? Has it always been like this and I never paid attention until recently?
posted by phoenixy at 10:11 PM on July 27, 2016


Will the dudes in fedoras be giving out free banjos?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:11 PM on July 27, 2016 [34 favorites]




Clicked through for the "Previously" link. Was not disappointed.

Rarely go to Starbucks, but I'm always happy when my visit lines up with my normal outpost's bow tie day.
posted by supercres at 10:20 PM on July 27, 2016 [3 favorites]


I too resent the fedora slander. it's a fine hat.
posted by jb at 10:29 PM on July 27, 2016 [19 favorites]


The previously link is is one of my all-time most memorable metafilter threads, though not a great moment for askme, I don't think. I think the mods prevent those kind of mean-spirited pile-ons now, which is a good thing in my opinion.

There's a great follow-up in a metatalk thread, but you really shouldn't read it until you've read the original thread 3-4 times over the course of four years.

Anyhoo, it doesn't sound like Starbucks wants their employees to wear fedoras as much as they're allowed to.
posted by skewed at 10:35 PM on July 27, 2016 [14 favorites]


I am already greeted by certain baristas at my local Starbuckses with "M'lady"

Starbucks please do not add to my overwhelming sense of woe regarding this matter
posted by Hermione Granger at 10:50 PM on July 27, 2016 [67 favorites]


I kind of get why (jeans and khakis are popular) but the shirts thing I never understood. Are bright colors just not in fashion? Has it always been like this and I never paid attention until recently?

You're describing the standard American male work uniform.

European men get to have interesting shirts, but they're largely stuck with the pants.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:00 PM on July 27, 2016 [4 favorites]


Surely I can't be the first in this thread to complain about the coffee?
posted by b1tr0t at 11:01 PM on July 27, 2016 [13 favorites]


Meanwhile, employees are all kinds of upset about cutbacks in labor hours at Starbucks, leading to long lines, angry customers, and smaller paychecks. They would apparently prefer to have those changes undone even if it means leaving their fedoras at home.
posted by zachlipton at 11:05 PM on July 27, 2016 [14 favorites]


I own a couple of very old fedoras (not trilbies damn it) that are nice to wear on formal occasions in lieu of having any hair. I'd wear them more if they weren't associated with "nice guys".
posted by deadwax at 11:11 PM on July 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


"It's not a fedora you cuck it's a trilby" is easily the most 2016 thing ever said.

you and i are working with about three years of context removed
posted by p3on at 11:13 PM on July 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


I want to punch the first pick up artist who used a trilby, miscalled it a fedora. and made those of us who want to wear a nice hat with a wide brim that's not a fucking ugly baseball cap piece of shit all look like assholes. I want to punch him so hard he got the bruise two months ago and wondered until now. I want to break time and space in that asshole's location.

Then I can wear a fedora with pride.
posted by mephron at 11:22 PM on July 27, 2016 [48 favorites]


you and i are working with about three years of context removed

Calling someone a "cuck"/"cuckservative" has only been a thing for a year max.
posted by L.P. Hatecraft at 11:23 PM on July 27, 2016 [6 favorites]


Okay, so once upon a time back in the mid-Bush-the-Lesser-era, I became a ski bum in a large Western Canadian ski town. I got used to having long blond hair with greasy roots hidden under a wool toque or K2/Pilsner branded trucker hat. Other people told me it looked good, and I believed them, mostly because it was maintenance free.

It was spring of 2008, and after a particularly bad season business wise, and the writing increasingly on the wall for both my employer, the resort at large, and maybe the global economy, I moved back to the city and got a boring office job working in the seedier end of the financial industry. I couldn't do the toque thing any more. Too dirtbag, too hippie douchebag. I didn't want to give up the hat/long hair combo, so my girlfriend encouraged me to just, as she put it, dress exactly like Don Draper in season 1 of Mad Men. So I did. Same pocket square, skinny tie, narrow lapels, overcoat, fedora. Atavistic neckbeardery. Nice guy douchebag. So my hair got longer, started putting it up. Women do it every day. Made sense. Manbun. Hipster douchebag. At least I got a few years of wearing my hair up before it was a thing that marked me as a pretentious asshole.

Can the internet gods please tell me what I should do next with the top of my head so as not to mark myself as a terrible person? My partner, who is a former hairdresser and hair school teacher, thinks I should have a pompadour, but I think that's just asking for trouble.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 11:27 PM on July 27, 2016 [37 favorites]


Calling someone a "cuck"/"cuckservative" has only been a thing for a year max.

again, you and i work with several years of context removed
posted by p3on at 11:28 PM on July 27, 2016 [1 favorite]


like i realize that if your frame of reference is twitter, then yeah you only interface with new insults when they're presented directly from people who operate in your sphere of understanding, but the internet is much, much bigger than that
posted by p3on at 11:31 PM on July 27, 2016 [2 favorites]


Worrying about what hats people in Starbucks wear... Is this some kind of cognitive avoidance or denial mechanism, a desperate way of not thinking about... something else?
posted by Segundus at 11:33 PM on July 27, 2016 [17 favorites]


So... color palettes, huh?
posted by hjo3 at 11:52 PM on July 27, 2016


I have a fedora! I added a layer of shiny blue cloth, glitter, and 20 ultra bright RGB LEDs that I can control from my phone with an app I wrote. Also I only wear it to the right kind of fancy party. What were we talking about again?
posted by miyabo at 11:58 PM on July 27, 2016 [26 favorites]


Can the internet gods please tell me what I should do next with the top of my head so as not to mark myself as a terrible person?

I'd suggest the sombrero, king of hats, but for me it would be appropriative. Caucasians do have one wide brimmed hat option left: the Stetson. It carries a significant risk of looking like an asshole, but you won't get skin cancer and you won't be mistaken for an MRA.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 11:58 PM on July 27, 2016 [20 favorites]


That first article. Geeze. My takeaway from it is "any hat, no matter what it is, is a sign that a man is an asshole". Seriously is there any hat that person doesn't think is a sign of being a jerkwad on a man. Because fuck this hat hate. Hats are great whatever gender you are. They keep rain off your head, they keep sun out of your eyes, a summer hat keeps your head cooler under the hot sun, a winter hat keeps your head warmer. Are all men only supposed to wear fucking hoodies now? Because nobody looks sharp in a fucking hoodie.

signed, a Hat Lady.
posted by egypturnash at 11:59 PM on July 27, 2016 [72 favorites]


like i realize that if your frame of reference is twitter

No, my frame of reference isn't twitter. It's a secret usenet group where we've been calling each other "cuck" and trading rare pepes since the mid 90s. Also, my uncle works at Nintendo, so I get all the games about a year before they come out in the stores.
posted by L.P. Hatecraft at 12:07 AM on July 28, 2016 [88 favorites]


I love hats! I love to make hats! So for you DoctorFedora, and for others who appreciate the talented milners of the world, let this fine gentleman hatseller from Chicago "demonstrate a more positive "hattitude".
posted by chapps at 12:10 AM on July 28, 2016 [12 favorites]


I think I'm a bit sad (and I realize this is common in retail) that the dress code is pretty specific and yet vague but I doubt they just pay for a uniform. Starbucks pays somewhat better than a lot of retail but it's not like it's so good you can go buy lots of clothes.
posted by R343L at 12:12 AM on July 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


Okay, a lot of people got really weirdly and unnecessarily heated about this, but for those actually curious "cuck" has been in common usage on some parts of the internet for at least a couple of years. Eron Gjoni referred to himself as a cuck in the August 2014 posts about Zoe Quinn that started the whole GamerGate thing, which he did because it was already common usage on 4chan by then.
posted by IAmUnaware at 12:15 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


I would like to get a hat to keep the sun off my face when I am hiking, but my options are either really dorky or make me look like a pickup artist. These are dark times for hats, or at least for me wearing them.

Anyway, a retail chain giving its employees a looser dress code "so they can express themselves" is probably better than total enforced conformity, but it still makes me think of Pieces of Flair.
posted by teponaztli at 12:17 AM on July 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


One funny thing about all this hat hullabaloo is that I currently rely completely on my white summer hat, and yet my IRL friend The White Hat, when last we spoke, owned no such headwear.

Also, "cuck" has for several years now been used as a "derogatory" term for basically anyone who isn't a white supremacist
posted by DoctorFedora at 12:17 AM on July 28, 2016 [9 favorites]


Why are we hating on fedoras and fedora-adjacent hats when the stylebook clearly shows those Distended Brain Sac knit caps are permitted
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:22 AM on July 28, 2016 [26 favorites]


IAmUnaware, pointing out that "cuck" has been in common use on 4chan does not make it any less bizarre and obscene. Moreso if anything.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 12:34 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Can we just cool it on the whole "cuck" derail already? I never thought I'd say this, but I really just want to talk about fedoras and dress codes.
posted by teponaztli at 12:44 AM on July 28, 2016 [78 favorites]


I would assert that there is at least one wide-brimmed hat option that has no affiliation with MRAs, and (as far as I know?) little hazard of cultural appropriation.

actually can we make this a thing
can I be a social justice witch

posted by NMcCoy at 12:45 AM on July 28, 2016 [45 favorites]


Interesting that baseball caps have become the most adult seeming male headwear
posted by Greener Backyards at 12:48 AM on July 28, 2016 [28 favorites]


Free the fedora! Puas should not get to define anything on the planet ever.
posted by chapps at 12:49 AM on July 28, 2016 [13 favorites]


honestly the one thing I want more than anything else in life is a giant wide-brimmed hat like F.A.N.G from Street Fighter V wears that doesn't get all floppy
posted by DoctorFedora at 12:55 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Thing is, wearing a fedora doesn't make you look like a Fedora (aka Nice Guy), wearing a trilby does. Which is kind of a shame, because trilbies are nicer hats in many ways (just not when paired with jeans, a dirty t-shirt and a patchy can't-even-really-call-it-a-beard).
posted by Dysk at 12:57 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Surely I can't be the first in this thread to complain about the coffee?

When they start serving coffee, it'll be on topic.
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:06 AM on July 28, 2016 [19 favorites]


The Tilley Hat may be forever uncool, but it will never have any association with PUAs of any stripe & does keep the sun off your face in summer.

(You may now educate me with your tales of PUAs in Tilley Hats and make me sad. Looking on their website, they actually make a Tilley Fedora, although how a hat made of the heaviest cotton duck fabric known to man can ever be worn for anything except utilitarian purposes I’ve no idea.)
posted by pharm at 1:20 AM on July 28, 2016 [19 favorites]


Huh, when I worked for Starbucks (in Scotland, so maybe more strict?) back in 2003/2004, it was strictly black or khaki trousers and black or white shirts. No exceptions. On very hot days we sometimes got to wear cargo shorts, but those are few and far between in Scotland.

Doing a shift in a warm coffee shop with a hat on would be horrible.
posted by Happy Dave at 1:25 AM on July 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


My takeaway from it is "any hat, no matter what it is, is a sign that a man is an asshole". Seriously is there any hat that person doesn't think is a sign of being a jerkwad on a man. Because fuck this hat hate.

My favored hat is a black leather kepi. It works well with my queer self, coupled with the long beard and roundish glasses is a throwback to the 1850s, and works well to let me get a seat for myself on the rare occasion I ride Greyhound. It's hawt in a leather-daddy kind of way, but also draws people into conversation with me. I think partly because it's perceived to be aggressive, but I don't look aggressive so there must be more going on with me, or something.

I can't wear it if it's hotter than about 85F outside. But I've had it since, like, 1987 or something, so at this point it's an old friend of mine.

Plus, fuck you if you don't like my hat. At least it's not a fedora.
posted by hippybear at 1:28 AM on July 28, 2016 [13 favorites]


What's with the "I knew this stupid insult before it was popular"? Is this some kind of performance art?

What I want to know is if the female baristas are also going to wear fedoras. That would look good.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:29 AM on July 28, 2016 [10 favorites]


All hats are great when worn correctly. Pairing a formal hat like a trilby with jeans and a t-shirt indoors is the standard MO for a lot of modern hat wearers, and that is why they are Fedoras, while it is perfectly possible to sport a trilby and not be a Fedora, if it's a coherent part of an outfit, or at least just goes with the rest of your clothes.
posted by Dysk at 1:31 AM on July 28, 2016 [18 favorites]


Can we all agree that the madras plaid trilby hat should never have been created?
posted by hippybear at 1:33 AM on July 28, 2016 [8 favorites]


Oh man, I sound like I'm a dude who's about to ogle the female baristas. Sorry. I'm a woman myself and like wearing and seeing hats on women, that's all.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:35 AM on July 28, 2016 [12 favorites]


Caucasians do have one wide brimmed hat option left: the Stetson. It carries a significant risk of looking like an asshole, but you won't get skin cancer and you won't be mistaken for an MRA.
Carl McCoy: Ultimate Barista.
posted by Sonny Jim at 1:38 AM on July 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


Omnomnom: your male gaze belies your gender. :P
posted by hippybear at 1:38 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


I liked fedoras back in the day when wearing one only meant that you enjoyed Indiana Jones movies a little more than might be healthy.

That was me! And let me tell you it took a lot of courage for me to wear it in the early 90s, nobody and I mean nobody was wearing hats back in those days...

But yeah, I know, I was a massive asshole and douche. With or without the hat, tbh.
posted by Meatbomb at 1:39 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


it took a lot of courage for me to wear it in the early 90s, nobody and I mean nobody was wearing hats back in those days...

I oddly grew up with the idea that "a man never leaves the house without wearing a hat", and I suppose my collection of some 40-odd hats speaks to this idea.

I also never take a hat off unless I truly feel comfortable and at-home.

The highest compliment you can receive from me if I come into your house and am spending time with you is that I take off my hat.

Also, I started this habit in the late 80s. There weren't many hat-wearers at the time.
posted by hippybear at 1:41 AM on July 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


I fear the trend of making fun of people wearing stylish hats, and indeed any notable clothing, has left us with remarkably bland surroundings. I for one would prefer a hat-positive society in which I can see trillbys, kepis, fedoras, and witches' hats on a daily basis.
posted by foobaz at 1:45 AM on July 28, 2016 [29 favorites]


@teponatzli I would like to get a hat to keep the sun off my face when I am hiking, but my options are either really dorky or make me look like a pickup artist. These are dark times for hats, or at least for me wearing them.

I would recommend going for the dorky hat and just owning the look. Good fashion is like a psychic thing that you project from your mind into other people's. Like... y'know?

If your main purpose is hiking, just get that dang Tilley hat. The ultimate in dad hiking gear.
posted by sixohsix at 1:46 AM on July 28, 2016 [9 favorites]


Surely I can't be the first in this thread to complain about the coffee?

When they start serving coffee, it'll be on topic.


In spite of being from the PacNW, home of Starbucks, I had never drunk anything of theirs until last weekend. I was waiting for a TGV and there was a Starbucks right by the platforms, with tables to sit at, whereas the other coffee places didn't have chairs or tables. So I go in and see only two choices that appeal: a Caffè Americano or an Espresso Doppio. I decide to be meta and choose the Americano.

I couldn't even. Blech. Plus their cinnamon roll – one of the very rare pastries that are difficult to find in France – was middling. It had cinnamon and frosting and was a pastry, basically.

I won't be going back to see whether the fedoras make it over the pond.
posted by fraula at 2:08 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Well, if this is the 2 minutes hate, I have never trusted men who wear those leather or suede caps either.
posted by thelonius at 2:22 AM on July 28, 2016


The MRAs didn't kill the fedora. Jason Mraz did. The MRAs just buried it.
posted by pxe2000 at 2:31 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Forget the fedoras -- what does Starbucks have against berets?
posted by No-sword at 2:35 AM on July 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


I thought gentlemen removed their hats indoors. Seems like maintaining that level of etiquette would solve a lot of hat-related problems.
posted by TedW at 3:01 AM on July 28, 2016 [40 favorites]


"Only ladies and babies wear hats in the house." Since about 1820, if I recall correctly.
posted by halfbuckaroo at 3:21 AM on July 28, 2016 [15 favorites]


The previously link is is one of my all-time most memorable metafilter threads, though not a great moment for askme, I don't think. I think the mods prevent those kind of mean-spirited pile-ons now, which is a good thing in my opinion

Honestly, make the green great again. I really miss threads where people would get utterly paddled when they completed deserve it and that one is a total popcorn fest.
posted by emptythought at 3:22 AM on July 28, 2016 [11 favorites]


They're not 'color palettes' they're 'colorways.' Try to keep up.
posted by fixedgear at 3:27 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Ohmigod, fedoras are out and cuckoldery's in. Surely this bodes badly for Clinton.
posted by lometogo at 3:31 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


What, no love for the fez? Or did hipsters ruin that one, too?
posted by briank at 3:50 AM on July 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


Man, I had forgotten about that previously. My face v was like D:

I wonder what happened to that guy?
posted by apricot at 3:54 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


honestly the one thing I want more than anything else in life is a giant wide-brimmed hat like F.A.N.G from Street Fighter V wears that doesn't get all floppy

Ah yes, the Darkwing hat.
posted by Servo5678 at 3:55 AM on July 28, 2016 [10 favorites]


Interesting that baseball caps have become the most adult seeming male headwear

trump's ruining that one, too
posted by murphy slaw at 4:04 AM on July 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


I think Trump already has ruined baseball caps: there's no 'is ruining' left to it.

And Miss Manners would be (rightfully) horrified by this new Starbucks rule, since it is proper for all men (and boys, for that matter) to remove their headgear indoors.
posted by easily confused at 4:23 AM on July 28, 2016 [11 favorites]


Where in the world is Caramel Macchiato?

Follow these clues:

She wanted to buy a Josh Groban CD.
She needed a clean bathroom.
She said the line was too long at Blue Bottle.
posted by condour75 at 4:29 AM on July 28, 2016 [45 favorites]


I am neither a dad nor much of a hiker, but I am approximately the whitest, sunburniest man in creation, so you can peel my Tilley from my cold dead bald spot.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 4:30 AM on July 28, 2016 [8 favorites]


I was at Target the other day and noticed all the salespeople were in non-standard red shirts. Didn't Target employees used to wear uniform shirts? A black shirt is a black shirt is a black shirt, but there are a lot of shades of red.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 4:32 AM on July 28, 2016


Just leave my bowler alone and we're all good.
posted by maxsparber at 4:40 AM on July 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


So I'm confused - as far as I can tell, the only person wearing a fedora in that group of pictures in the employee manual is a woman. But everyone's talking about men in fedoras.

What about women in fedoras? Because fedoras are very definitely pitched as An Option For Women To Make Cute Outfits with.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:42 AM on July 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


I wish people hadn't managed to ruin every hat except the baseball cap, and maybe a few kinds of winter hat.

Trust me...The baseball cap was ruined a long, long time ago.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:43 AM on July 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


A black shirt is a black shirt is a black shirt

No way, that's just false.
posted by fixedgear at 4:43 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Also: Indiana Jones and the Unthreatening First Date
posted by condour75 at 4:44 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


A cautionary tale.
posted by Fizz at 4:46 AM on July 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


Gentlemen remove their hats indoors.
posted by rmmcclay at 4:50 AM on July 28, 2016 [13 favorites]


I thought gentlemen removed their hats indoors. Seems like maintaining that level of etiquette would solve a lot of hat-related problems.

Very few places have hat racks these days. What's a gentleman to do?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:51 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


I was at Target the other day and noticed all the salespeople were in non-standard red shirts. Didn't Target employees used to wear uniform shirts?

oh snap it was a heist the real target employees were all tied up in the back room
get maria bamford on the line for hostage negotiation and entertainment
posted by robocop is bleeding at 4:51 AM on July 28, 2016 [22 favorites]


I was going to suggest visors as an alternative, but i'm not so sure. I think this is the only guy who can pull it off.
posted by cotton dress sock at 4:57 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


That Previously just stole several hours of my day. Thank u based Metafilter.
posted by nerdfish at 4:59 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


A black shirt is a black shirt is a black shirt

Someones never been, or dated/been close friends with a goth or a metalhead. Or shit, even worked at a really uptight food service place with an asshole boss. "Ugh, my blacks dont match" is both a running joke and completely serious.
posted by emptythought at 5:01 AM on July 28, 2016 [33 favorites]


Also holy shit how did anyone miss making fun of the cycling cap option? That's the most hilarious tryhard thing here.
posted by emptythought at 5:03 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yeah there are a rainbow of black colors even without exotic chemical enhancement.
posted by winna at 5:08 AM on July 28, 2016


She wanted to buy a Josh Groban CD.

Strike one.

She said the line was too long at Blue Bottle.

Strike two.
posted by entropicamericana at 5:14 AM on July 28, 2016


Cloches are still okay, right? I mean, I have this gorgeous one I bought from an elderly haberdasher in Quebec City in 2011 and I never wear it because I don't dress like a woman who regularly pulls off accessorizing with a cloche, but I might be one day!
posted by Kitteh at 5:16 AM on July 28, 2016 [14 favorites]



What, no love for the fez? Or did hipsters ruin that one, too?


No, that was Shriners.
posted by Jahaza at 5:18 AM on July 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


There is a ton of shit here to unpack about socially low-status men, sexist attitudes, and bullying.

Socially low status men basically are to sexism what economically low status white people are to racism. A group that is particularly susceptible to falling into the trap of directing their anger at being low status in ways that reflect deep inequalities in our society. (Obviously this is a generalization and does not apply to all, or even most, individuals in either category.) They reflect these negative attitudes back into the world, and because they are low status, the world feels comfortable blaming them as the source of the problem, and using it as a way to continue to punish them for being low status. Which is not to say that such people are not responsible for their own attitudes and actions, just that they are also not the root of the problem.

Which brings us to the real issue with the fedora. It's not the sexist attitudes that poisoned it. It's the low status. The people who wear them are not cool enough to be different. They are supposed to be invisible.

Calling people out on being sexist or engaging in harassment is necessary and positive. Ridiculing people for wearing the wrong hat is bullying.
posted by Nothing at 5:20 AM on July 28, 2016 [79 favorites]


Nothing wrong with a fedora or trilby or porkpie if you are dressed for it. I bought my first Panama this summer and am abso-damn lutely going all in on something dressier to protect my bald-ass head in nicer contexts this winter.

But you must be dressed for it, and your ass had damn well better be outside. To show that you are a man of class and manners, and also to charm the fuck out of old ladies when you walk through the front door while taking it off, holding it to your chest and smiling.

Cloches are still okay, right?

I will fight anyone who says otherwise.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:20 AM on July 28, 2016 [18 favorites]


Also holy shit how did anyone miss making fun of the cycling cap option? That's the most hilarious tryhard thing here.

Oh, totally. Despite being a massive fan of a kit-appropriate casquette myself - I think I have about a dozen or so, and wear one for pretty much every ride when there's an R in the month - "the only time it is acceptable to wear a cycling cap is while directly engaged in cycling activities and while clad in cycling kit". The End.
posted by A Robot Ninja at 5:22 AM on July 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


Back in college I bought a wool fedora from Eddie Bauer. It's my "camping hat". After 15 years, I replaced it with a thicker wool Filson fedora. New "camping hat". I have now had that one for 7 years. I don't wear them when I am not camping.

I think of those two hats like my beard - I've had them forever, and suddenly some goober has made them uncool. I do not like being lumped in with beanie-wearing trend chasers who just discovered facial hair when my beard is literally older than many of them.

Also I am now annoyed at Starbucks micromanaging the color palette. I like coffee shops where the folks behind the counter don't care fuck-all about corporate color palettes. Those are the best coffee shops.

In conclusion, get off my lawn I guess.
posted by caution live frogs at 5:28 AM on July 28, 2016 [16 favorites]


So my hair got longer, started putting it up. Women do it every day. Made sense. Manbun. Hipster douchebag. At least I got a few years of wearing my hair up before it was a thing that marked me as a pretentious asshole.

I personally think you should reclaim the bun. (Calling it a man-bun is one of those dumb sexist moves, like calling a bag carried by a man a "murse" - not that I blame you; it's the culture's fault. Not that Culture, our culture.)

First, if you have nice hair, it probably looks nice long. Second, what the fuck is wrong with wearing your hair up? The idea that any man who does anything vaguely effortful/"feminine" with his appearance must be some kind of awful narcissist is actually really queerphobic and femmephobic and probably some other kinds of 'phobic.

Come to that, blanket hatred of men in hats probably stems from the same kind of bias - the idea that real men don't do gross, girly things like fashion, so if they have hats that's because they're not actually manly enough. (PUA hats, etc, are still bad.)

And second, I myself like long hair on men. What's wrong with long hair on men? Aren't the nineties back in fashion? Men wore their hair long then and it was nice. And if you have long hair, sometimes you want to pull it back or put it up, and why shouldn't men be able to do something more than just a low ponytail?

Men should get to wear long hair, and should get to wear it in any style they please. If someone is actually a hipster narcissist, this will show in their personality pretty quickly - no need to blame it on their hair or their hat.
posted by Frowner at 5:31 AM on July 28, 2016 [29 favorites]


The folks at the local Panera really liked my UFO Field Investigator hat, but I guess that's because it turned out that they'd Seen Some Shit.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:31 AM on July 28, 2016 [9 favorites]


Also, you know what? Next year I am going to get a straw hat which will probably be fedora-like for summer, because people in my family get more sun-sensitive as they age and it's really started bugging me this summer. I myself am a masculine spectrum person who sometimes passes as male depending on how my shirt fits, and I will wear this hat proudly, thank you. I have my eye on a nice grey straw from a fancy seller, so the internet can just bite me. Not literally, as it might damage the hat, but figuratively.
posted by Frowner at 5:34 AM on July 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


@Nothing, personally, I'm not sure who if anyone should really be wearing hats, hats in general (other than tuques in winter and, formerly, baseball caps) are conspicuous and considered suspicious; wearing a hat (period! excepting exceptions) suggests you've got something to hide or prove. It is going to attract attention. It doesn't help that the wearers of fedoras consistently attract additional attention for being jerky. It is a correlation people can't fail to see.
posted by cotton dress sock at 5:35 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


I wish people hadn't managed to ruin every hat except the baseball cap, and maybe a few kinds of winter hat.

Wait, did something happen with boonie hats?
posted by dilettante at 5:36 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Foolishly, I installed the Starbucks app and order my drinks from home and then just pick them up. It avoids the awkward socialization with the baristas and I never actually see who makes my drink. Therefore, let them wear whatever they want, I will never see them.
posted by tommasz at 5:37 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


A nice, well-fitted hat (fedora, trilby, flatcap) on a man is amazingly, irrepressibly sexy. (To me, ymmv, etc) When the hat is appropriate to the outfit and the location, it draws a bright line between 'boy' and 'man' and ... whoa.

Keep on wearing your hats, MeFites. Wear what makes you feel good. Don't let the snark get you down.
posted by kimberussell at 5:38 AM on July 28, 2016 [12 favorites]


To be fair to Starbucks, they did forbid the striped trilby.

I fell in love with a young man who wore a fedora and called me "my lady." That was because it was 1994, and the world was yet innocent of what this signified. Sometimes I wonder if he has the self-awareness to be ashamed of himself these days. I certainly do.
posted by Countess Elena at 5:43 AM on July 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


I tend to rock this, but its mostly an autumnal or winter kind of style.
posted by Fizz at 5:46 AM on July 28, 2016 [12 favorites]


The flatcap is another exception, and that looks great on you, Fizz. And, crucially, you are being season-appropriate.
posted by cotton dress sock at 5:48 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Thanks cotton dress sock, as much as I try to resist, I find myself becoming my Dad. He still wears hats of that type and well, I'll be damned if I don't love that style as well.
posted by Fizz at 5:51 AM on July 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


Very few places have hat racks these days. What's a gentleman to do?

Hang it on the back of your coat on a coat hook. Hang it on your chair back. Plonk it on the table in front of you. In a pinch (if, say, you're eating and thus need table space and are seated on a stool or bench) hang it on your knee.
posted by Dysk at 6:00 AM on July 28, 2016 [11 favorites]


I have a very high quality trilby from a top British millinery, and I wear it in the fall and early spring, with a suit, tie, and wool trench.

I look amazing.

Fuck the haters.
posted by 256 at 6:01 AM on July 28, 2016 [12 favorites]


Very few places have hat racks these days. What's a gentleman to do?

Hang it on the back of your coat on a coat hook. Hang it on your chair back. Plonk it on the table in front of you. In a pinch (if, say, you're eating and thus need table space and are seated on a stool or bench) hang it on your knee.

A gentleman always finds a way.
posted by Fizz at 6:02 AM on July 28, 2016 [6 favorites]


wearing a fedora means exactly this: you are wearing a fedora. and while i am at it, barista is a stupid word for another dumbass in a fast-food type job, perhaps a step up from order taker at burger king, but nowhere near impressive enough to warrant the pretentious name.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:02 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


I used to wear hats, like you, but then I took a Fedora to the knee.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 6:02 AM on July 28, 2016 [17 favorites]


The summer I realized I did not want to be a paleontologist, my professor and the other people on the field crew kept trying to make me wear a floppy hiking dad hat and I resisted so hard that they eventually relented and let me wear a pirate bandana all summer. If only I'd been done arrrchaeology instead.
posted by ChuraChura at 6:04 AM on July 28, 2016 [24 favorites]


More importantly they have banned the iconic symbol of America and freedom -- the white cowboy hat.
posted by humanfont at 6:05 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm seeing a growing number of flat caps/ newsboy caps here in Cleveland and kinda generally across the Midwest, so that seems to be a possible replacement for the baseball cap. Any "insufferable hipster" association depends on the rest of the outfit - regular jeans and a T-shirt no, skinny jeans + extravagant facial hair + tight vest yes.

Also worth pointing out that not only is the fedora/trilby "message problem" a male problem, it's very much a White male "problem". AFAICT, PoC men (especially black and Hispanic men) of all ages can and do wear a variety of hats all year. Griping about how "they" ruined the fedora strikes me as a bit tone-deaf; a small subset of white male jerks may have fucked with the ability of non-jerk white men to wear fedoras or trilbys, but it's not nearly the universal culture-wide tragedy some seem to think it is.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:05 AM on July 28, 2016 [14 favorites]


Cloches are still okay, right?

Cloches are always okay, but they are outside hats. Anything that limits your vision is an outside hat. Having said that, all hats are great and you should wear them any time and any place you want. And if anyone wants to buy me this number I will gladly get a job at starbucks just to fuck with them
posted by Mchelly at 6:09 AM on July 28, 2016


More importantly they have banned the iconic symbol of America and freedom -- the white cowboy hat.

You need to visit Calgary, Alberta. It feels like a kind of Dallas, Texas of the North. Cowboy hats are still very much a thing.
posted by Fizz at 6:09 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


barista is a stupid word for another dumbass in a fast-food type job, perhaps a step up from order taker at burger king, but nowhere near impressive enough to warrant the pretentious name.

You must be a delight to any and all people in the service industry.
posted by Kitteh at 6:09 AM on July 28, 2016 [91 favorites]


Damn it, is summer over yet? I want autumn to be here now, because of autumnal weather and mostly because of autumnal sweaters and hats.
posted by Fizz at 6:13 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


I know it's been said about 10 times in this thread, but it has not and never will be said enough. If you are inside TAKE OFF YOUR HAT!

It's acceptable to wear any hat you damn well please outside, or in a train station or in an outside-like place (like a covered mall) but if you're inside, in an office or a shop or a house (especially a house) your hat should be off!
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 6:13 AM on July 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


if you're inside, in an office or a shop or a house (especially a house) your hat should be off!

Coming from a religion that wears hats all the time, I'm gonna loudly nope that. But now you might not get a shabbat dinner invitation.
posted by Mchelly at 6:17 AM on July 28, 2016 [15 favorites]


So... anyone know where I can buy that forbidden baseball cap reading "Sports!" I would like to show off my appreciation of sportsball.
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:19 AM on July 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


Oops.
That's a really good point... thanks!
(don't I feel like a dope)
With that very sensible exception.... don't wear hats indoors.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 6:20 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Next year I am going to get a straw hat which will probably be fedora-like for summer

hell yes

we can start a gang
posted by griphus at 6:20 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


middleclasstool: But you must be dressed for it, and your ass had damn well better be outside. To show that you are a man of class and manners, and also to charm the fuck out of old ladies when you walk through the front door while taking it off, holding it to your chest and smiling.

Is that you, Al Jolson?
posted by dr_dank at 6:23 AM on July 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


How does Starbucks feel about Stetsons?

And what about boaters? We're in election season, and it's not really an election without some fool in a boater.
posted by jackbishop at 6:24 AM on July 28, 2016 [9 favorites]


Yeah, I like hats, even fedoras, but hats indoors is like nails on a chalkboard for as long as the hat persists.
posted by corb at 6:24 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


This is the hat upon which I have my eye.

"But Frowner, it even calls itself a fedora," you may say. And to that I reply: I need a summer-weight hat with a brim that comes in a ginormous size because of my ginormous head; a flat cap will not do because it needs to have enough brim to shade my neck and ears. I would prefer that it not be white/light beige because I am a smudgy person; I feel a little dorky about this, okay; but also, look, I have realized that I can no longer walk around bare-headed in the bright sun unless I want to be heat-sick and go to bed in a cool room immediately after, as I know only too well from recent protest attendance.

What is more, I expect that I will look pretty fucking dapper, thank you.
posted by Frowner at 6:25 AM on July 28, 2016 [9 favorites]


jackbishop: "How does Starbucks feel about Stetsons?

And what about boaters? We're in election season, and it's not really an election without some fool in a boater.
"

I give you, PT Bridgeport
posted by chavenet at 6:30 AM on July 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


I think Trump already has ruined baseball caps

Now that all kinds of hats are thoroughly ruined for everyone, it's time to start on the next target: shoes. Donald Trump wears shoes. Mussolini wore shoes. This guy is wearing shoes. Everyone who is an idiot, or an asshole, or a jerk, or a Donald Trump wears shoes. It's a correlation people can't fail to see.
posted by sfenders at 6:31 AM on July 28, 2016 [13 favorites]


Yeah, summer hats are kind of necessary for a lot of people (including those taking refuge from cosmetically inelegant or irritating sunscreens). The try-hard hat stigma is just so hard to get out from under (for people of any gender, am an equal-opportunity judger) unless you're actually on a beach. I admire the dorky and brave in summer but can't make myself join them.
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:34 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Everyone should just wear trapper hats, all day, every day.
posted by Lucinda at 6:35 AM on July 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


I wore a fedora for many years (as a timeframe, I was accused of dressing like Dick Tracy, which was in theatres at the time), and have a very nice, expensive one in my closet, but in the past five to ten years opinions have turned negative towards fancy hats -- like, a coworker actually laughed at me when I wore it on a rainy day -- so I haven't worn it in a while.

Now, I tend to wear a large-brimmed, side-snap boonie/bucket hat, because I can wear the sides up or down depending on my mood and how sunny it is, but today I hear that's a "dad-hat". I just can't win. Sunburned scalp for me!

Everyone should just wear ushankas, all day, every day.

I wear one of these all winter, and I put up with the amused looks because winter is cold, thank you very much.
posted by AzraelBrown at 6:35 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Re the word "cuck": Google Trends says it has been around for a while (far longer than "SJW", for instance).
posted by splitpeasoup at 6:37 AM on July 28, 2016


Our office has no dress code, but one thing that I've noticed for a while is that a good 90% of shirts and pants that people are wearing are in the white/grey/black/blue/brown spectrum of the Starbucks acceptable color palette anyway. I kind of get why (jeans and khakis are popular) but the shirts thing I never understood. Are bright colors just not in fashion? Has it always been like this and I never paid attention until recently?

Brights for men occasionally become slightly fashionable, but:

1. Brights for men are often read as lower-class or queer and are thus eschewed by people who want to climb the hetero-middle-class corporate ladder;
2. Bright shirts for men are often produced in throw-away fabrics and can look cheap;
3. Brights go in and out of fashion faster and men are not as socialized into the fast-fashion thing as women, so may hesitate;
4. Brights are not fashionable so they're not available so men don't buy them so demand doesn't develop;
5. There were some sort-of-brights in fashion in the nineties - deep brights like darker purples, darker oranges, etc.

On a purely practical level: As someone who wears men's clothes, I can tell you that I buy sub fusc colors more than brights because they are easier to match. Basically, all my shirts go with all my pants, even though I have quite an array of solids and patterns. If I got a bright purple shirt, it would work well with only one pair of pants, would look actively bad with several pairs and would look sort of "what junior high students think is really cool in menswear" if I wore it with black pants. (I could add a white silk-satin tie and then I'd look awesome!)

In utopia, our fashion choices will not be gendered but will be categorized along different axes - maybe "plain" and "fancy"; "sub fusc" and "bright"; and "uniform" and "variety". So you might be a person who likes repeating plain brights, and you wear mostly plain purple and pink button downs; or you might be a person who likes a variety of fancy sub fusc clothes so it's all grey and black silk ruffles, etc.

We will wear whatever hats we like in utopia.
posted by Frowner at 6:39 AM on July 28, 2016 [10 favorites]


Wait, are we at the part of the thread where we just show the hats we want? Because this.
posted by Mchelly at 6:40 AM on July 28, 2016 [10 favorites]


As the possessor of one of the planet's most epic melons -- size 8 1/2, rarely seen outside of science fiction -- hats are a theoretical fashion problem for me. To this day I have yet to find a formal hat that does not rest upon my dome like a cherry on a sundae, and baseball caps on my head appear to be novelty yarmulkes with brims. While this has been a source of great visual jokes (plopping a normal dude's trilby on my head while deadpanning is comedy gold), it ain't helpful in preventing sunburn.

The internet provides a few options for retailers of hats for the extraordinarily benoggined, but I'm dubious. The baseball hat I bought from one of 'em proved to be a regular large cap with a refitted strap in the back. It looks only a fraction less ludicrous than a normal hat on me. Dammit.
posted by Harvey Jerkwater at 6:41 AM on July 28, 2016 [10 favorites]


And men wearing hats of any kind indoors is always a bit of a turn-off, unless there is a religious significance. Come indoors, hang up your hat.
posted by splitpeasoup at 6:42 AM on July 28, 2016 [6 favorites]


> What, no love for the fez? Or did hipsters ruin that one, too?

No, that was Shriners.


But The Doctor made them cool again.

I look dippy in just about any hat, but I can rock a kerchief....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:44 AM on July 28, 2016


You mean this isn't a post about enterprise adoption of Linux?
posted by clawsoon at 6:45 AM on July 28, 2016 [6 favorites]


the Stetson. It carries a significant risk of looking like an asshole, but you won't get skin cancer
... assuming I wouldn't go out shirtless with just a yellow neckerchief.
posted by lmfsilva at 6:47 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


In re hats and indoors: There's a great sequence in the criminally underrated, hilarious, pretty-racially-balanced-for-a-novel-written-by-a-white-dude-in-1981 Folk of the Air by Peter Beagle in....well, perhaps I will just share it with you, since it's about a hat:

He looked warily to left and right; then, with a clumsy slapping motion, he swept the glass off the table. Farrell heard it break, not on asphalt but on other glass. He glanced down to see a wrinkled paper shopping bag squatting openmouthed by the young man’s foot. In the sunlight the gleaming curved fragments were heaped as close and as brightly as snow. The young man said, “See, I eat glass. I’ll eat all the glass there in two days, maybe three days.”

“This place has the worst water in Avicenna and the best kind of glass,” the young man said. “Funny, but that’s how it is. Real quality glass.”

Farrell cleared his throat. “You know, I really wouldn’t eat all that glass. I really don’t think you should.”

The young man said, “I been struck by lightning two times.” Farrell looked up and down Parnell, wishing with a sudden aching fierceness to see someone he knew coming along. “Once in the back, and once right in the back of the head,” the young man said. “Two times.” He was leaning across the table again, his meaty breath damp on Farrell’s cheek. “That’s why I eat glass. Good glass, colored glass a lot, like wine bottles. Desert glass, them old mason jars been out in the sun for years and years. I eat all that stuff.”

The mention of wine bottles reminded Farrell that it was Thursday, his usual day to pick up some small dinner present for Ben and Sia. He scraped his chair, mentally choreographing his flight to clear sidewalk: a buttonhook around the Iranians [who were arguing about the recent revolution, mentioned earlier in the chapter] to cut between the regular Rastafarian debating society and two women playing Purcell’s Trumpet Voluntary on musical saws. Vaguely he thought that it might be useful to start wearing a hat or carrying something like a portfolio. You put it on the table when you sit down, and when you pick it up even the Ancient Mariner knows you have to go. He looked along Parnell once more, yearning angrily past the street merchants, the record shops and the tiny bead-curtained restaurants down to where the medical office complexes abruptly began. I’m lonely, he thought, this nut’s made me lonely. What a dumb thing.

posted by Frowner at 6:47 AM on July 28, 2016 [11 favorites]


What about tricorns? You hardly ever see tricorns around these days.

I own two.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:51 AM on July 28, 2016 [13 favorites]


Which brings us to the real issue with the fedora. It's not the sexist attitudes that poisoned it. It's the low status. The people who wear them are not cool enough to be different. They are supposed to be invisible.

Wow. That's a really good observation.

It also explains why Lenny Kravitz can wear a rug, because he's cool enough to get away with it.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:51 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


What about tricorns? You hardly ever see tricorns around these days.

I own two.


You're clearly one shy.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:51 AM on July 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


You mean this isn't a post about enterprise adoption of Linux?
Any enterprise that adopts Fedora instead of CentOS or Debian deserves all it gets.

'Fond' memories of starting work at a place that had production servers running on a 10-year-out-of-support version of Fedora a while back
posted by winterhill at 6:52 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


What about tricorns? You hardly ever see tricorns around these days.

If you don't casually refer to your hat as your 'corn'. You're doing your hat and the English language a great disservice.
posted by Fizz at 6:54 AM on July 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


Coming from a religion that wears hats all the time, I'm gonna loudly nope that. But now you might not get a shabbat dinner invitation.

Is a yarmulke technically classified as a hat, or would it be some other non-hat headwear, like tiaras or the miscellany of items anthropologists who don't know its proper name call a “headdress”?
posted by acb at 6:54 AM on July 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


What about tricorns? You hardly ever see tricorns around these days.

Probably because they're usually worn by some shouty white guy who complains that slaves had it good, yet taxes are bad because they are slavery.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:55 AM on July 28, 2016 [22 favorites]


They should just have the baristas wearing ushankas.
posted by Nanukthedog at 6:55 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


personally, I'm not sure who if anyone should really be wearing hats, hats in general (other than tuques in winter and, formerly, baseball caps) are conspicuous and considered suspicious; wearing a hat (period! excepting exceptions) suggests you've got something to hide or prove.
I know this is going push the boundaries of believability for the MetaFilter hat police, but maybe wearing a hat means that I like to wear hats.
posted by usonian at 6:55 AM on July 28, 2016 [19 favorites]


if you're inside, in an office or a shop or a house (especially a house) your hat should be off!

Coming from a religion that wears hats all the time, I'm gonna loudly nope that. But now you might not get a shabbat dinner invitation.


Even if you're super observant, I suspect all the single ladies would disagree with you on that one.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:57 AM on July 28, 2016


I know this is going push the boundaries of believability for the MetaFilter hat police, but maybe wearing a hat means that I like to wear hats.

You get the hell out of here.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:58 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


DEAR CITIZEN! ARE YOU PLAGUED WITH THE NARCISSISM OF SMALL DIFFERENCES?

TURN TO GREAT FATHER FREUD FOR RELIEF!

https://www.amazon.com/Civilization-Discontents-Complete-Psychological-Sigmund/dp/0393304515
posted by mrdaneri at 6:59 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


maybe wearing a hat means that I like to wear hats.

Well, who doesn't, I'd be wearing fascinators half the time if it weren't ridiculous, I'm just saying that's how hats are read, nothing about intentions.
posted by cotton dress sock at 7:00 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


A gentleman always finds a way.

My whopping two months of experience reveals this can be a challenge these days, to be fair. I've had to set it on carefully-inspected restaurant floors and under church pews. The knee thing works unless you're eating or sitting next to an unmedicated six-year-old.

The first restaurant I wore it to actually took it for me when I arrived, then attempted to give it to the wrong guy. And of course it goes square on my head if I walk into a public restroom.

So basically when I wear the thing in public I turn into a grumpy octogenarian complaining about the loss of good places with coat/hat checks, what is this, Communist Russia
posted by middleclasstool at 7:00 AM on July 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


corb: Yeah, I like hats, even fedoras, but hats indoors is like nails on a chalkboard for as long as the hat persists.

I think this might be a regional thing, since nobody here seems to care. Which is good, because I'm keeping mine on.
posted by Mitrovarr at 7:01 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Okay, but the dress code says, "If your store requires you to wear hats by state or local law ..." so apparently that's something that happens somewhere? Where could I find a world map of places that require baristas to wear hats, because what is the rationale behind such laws?
posted by RobotHero at 7:02 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Regarding the cloche: as a woman with classic length fluffy hair, I really want to wear adorable face-framing hats but either I wear my hair loose and it bursts exuberantly and comically from the brim and then there's still two or three feet of it to go, or I put my hair up and then it doesn't remotely fit underneath the hat. Is there a solution that allows me to wear cute hats without bobbing my hair like a 20's vixen (which would be a great option if it didn't look like a 20's mushroom cloud)? Braids, pigtails, and other styles which are basically a contained-loose variation don't quite seem right. Bigger hat? I don't want to go full rasta-hat, at least outside of the winter. I do have an adorable fascinator for formal occasions which works with styled-up hair.
posted by spelunkingplato at 7:02 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Bowlers, boaters, and Panama hats for everyone! And the Quaker oats guy hat, that's still safe, isn't it?
posted by fings at 7:05 AM on July 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


My feeling about manners and hats is that while it is polite to take one's hat off indoors (absent some health, religious or cultural reason to continue wearing it), it is also polite to ignore small deviations from manners code, especially when those deviations don't actively inconvenience you.

In short, getting all picky because someone is wearing a hat indoors and it bugs you on an aesthetic level isn't really all that polite either. If they're sitting in front of you at the opera and you can't see, that's different, of course.
posted by Frowner at 7:05 AM on July 28, 2016 [9 favorites]


Where could I find a world map of places that require baristas to wear hats, because what is the rationale behind such laws?

This probably refers to laws saying people with hair over a certain length who are preparing food need to have their hair tied back or covered. If the language of those laws is sufficiently broad in a given state, then yeah, it could mean that even baristas with long hair need to have it tied back or wear some kind of covering.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:07 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


If they're sitting in front of you at the opera and you can't see, that's different, of course.

Sounds like grounds for a challenge to a duel. 'Pistols at dawn.'
posted by Fizz at 7:07 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]




I am a woman. I wear a fedora,because I live in the land of unremitting evil daystar. I also wear giant straw hats, floppy velvet hats, and I've an entire collection of hats from the 40s with veils and feathers and I think one has a stuffed bird. I also own the largest selection of tiaras of anyone who has never been associated with a beauty pageant.

Wear what makes you happy, and let the haters be damned.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:14 AM on July 28, 2016 [19 favorites]


Hatters gonna hat!
posted by I-Write-Essays at 7:16 AM on July 28, 2016 [15 favorites]


Everyone in this thread needs to go (re)watch Howl's Moving Castle. It's very appropriate.
posted by Fizz at 7:20 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Isn't the whole "hat or no hat' mitigated by the line about state law? I'm guessing some states require any food handler to wear a hat. So at least they're not making their employees wear little brown paper envelopes on their head with a corporate logo printed on the side, humiliation guaranteed.
posted by ga$money at 7:22 AM on July 28, 2016


it is also polite to ignore small deviations from manners code

Oh absolutely. And if someone came into my house wearing a hat, I would certainly not, in the full view of others loudly declare them to be a monster.*
That would be bad form.



*I'd think it though, and seethe quietly, and probably would not offer them a third brandy.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 7:24 AM on July 28, 2016 [14 favorites]


like, a coworker actually laughed at me when I wore it on a rainy day

Seriously, fuck your coworker. As a bespectacled member of society, when it is raining is precisely when a broad brimmed hat is most indispensable.
posted by Dysk at 7:27 AM on July 28, 2016 [25 favorites]


Speaking as a guy who is wearing a purple shirt at work right now, I don't really get why men's clothing is expected to remain in the boring color range. Sure, I like blues and grays and browns, but I also like green and orange and red and purple and salmon. My wife disapproved of my intent to purchase a bright pink dress shirt but I still think I want to go get it some time anyway. I am pretty sure I own more bright colored clothes than she does.

The trick of course is to just exude confidence. Am I wearing a purple shirt? Yes, yes I am, and I am wearing the HELL out of it.
posted by caution live frogs at 7:30 AM on July 28, 2016 [19 favorites]


Spelunkingplato -- not sure how thick your hair is, but your best bet is to braid your hair into a long braid (maybe gathering it loosely just at your neck, so you have some hair looping down a bit before it enters the braid at either side - YMMV), then pin it into a bun just below the brim of the hat. It won't look perfect - I'm pretty sure cloches were designed to be worn with bobbed hair - but should give you the right effect.
posted by Mchelly at 7:31 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Ted Turner wore a train engineers hat helming Courageous in the Americas Cup, seemed pretentious to me (hatless for decades) until recently I've discovered a bit of a brim makes for vastly fewer headaches and vastly greater comfort.

I have a pristine tribley from my grandfather but I can not for the life of me imagine the general outfit needed to work, it would just be silly in shorts and a slightly torn tech-shwag tee shirt.
posted by sammyo at 7:35 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Speaking as a guy who is wearing a purple shirt at work right now, I don't really get why men's clothing is expected to remain in the boring color range.

Oh, come on now. Of course you do.
posted by mhoye at 7:35 AM on July 28, 2016


Hi Mchelly, I have tried this and I think it's the best I can do, with careful positioning so that the bulk of the bun doesn't push the hat even more over my eyes than designed. That, or just seeking out cloche-like hats that are actually sort of cloche-pillbox hybrids, and only take up part of the top of the head. I even have one--if only hatpins weren't so terrifying.
posted by spelunkingplato at 7:38 AM on July 28, 2016


It could be worse, Starbucks employees. (Or better! I love these hats!)
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 7:40 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


My work shirts this week have been peach, purple, teal (with purple socks so that I stealth-cosplay as a Solo Jazz cup), and today a kind of coral not-exactly-plaid. Go hard or go home.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:40 AM on July 28, 2016 [5 favorites]



It could be worse, Starbucks employees. (Or better! I love these hats!)


Face-obscuring hats with built-in sunglasses? That's so sixties-poptimism-sci fi! I really love those, and would gladly wear a face-obscuring hat with built-in spectacles.
posted by Frowner at 7:41 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


teponaztli: I would like to get a hat to keep the sun off my face when I am hiking, but my options are either really dorky or make me look like a pickup artist.

Well, the Australian company Akubra makes wonderful hats that fall in between a few styles -- wider brimmed than a Stetson but flatter, like a Fedora. You simply may not wear a buttoned-on-the-side bush hat, but other than that, their stuff is nice, like this Cattleman. They are cool and shady in the summer and warm in the winter, being made from fur felt.

WRT to being dork, well, sixohsix is correct that you simply plop it on your head an Own It. *shrug* Beats cancer, as I often remind myself.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:46 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Seriously, fuck your coworker

Speaking of deviations from moral codes...
posted by acb at 7:47 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


It also explains why Lenny Kravitz can wear a rug, because he's cool enough to get away with it.

Before I looked at the photos I thought you meant Lenny had started wearing a toupée and all joy temporarily left me.
posted by haileris23 at 7:48 AM on July 28, 2016 [11 favorites]


I'd trust a bandana more than most head coverings to keep stray hairs out of my food and drink and starbucks branded do-rags might even look cool.
posted by mattamatic at 7:50 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


briank: What, no love for the fez? Or did hipsters ruin that one, too?

Everyone who has been to Epcot since 1983, and posed for that same HILARIOUS snapshot in "Morocco" with that one, same, soiled fez on their sweaty head will never wear one again.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:51 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


What, no love for the fez? Or did hipsters ruin that one, too?

Still alive and kicking in the ska scene over here in the UK.
posted by Dysk at 7:55 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Can the internet gods please tell me what I should do next with the top of my head so as not to mark myself as a terrible person?

You're white, yes? Dreadlocks. Easy to care for and never out of fashion.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:55 AM on July 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


evil, Johnny Wallflower
posted by cotton dress sock at 7:57 AM on July 28, 2016 [13 favorites]


quonsar: I'm the pretentious hipster of calling out pretentious hipsters
Cuck aficionados: I'm the pretentious hipster of a shitbird word
posted by aydeejones at 7:58 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Damn I'm cool
posted by aydeejones at 7:58 AM on July 28, 2016


the Quaker Oats guy

Please - his name is Quincy.
posted by Rash at 7:59 AM on July 28, 2016


I really hate anything that looks like judging people by what they wear. It's ridiculous.

Also, I like hats.
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:59 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Am I wearing a purple shirt? Yes, yes I am, and I am wearing the HELL out of it.

When my fiancée and I first started dating, I was one of those recovered goths whose wardrobe was still entirely made up of shades of black. She exhorted me to expand my palette, and because I am a belligerent troll, I went out and bought a bunch of shirts in all of the colors that she likes to wear, so that she's constantly frustrated by our matching outfits every time we're out in public together.

I am a delight.

So a couple of weeks after Prince passed away, I was walking through the neighborhood and a woman shouted from across the street, "Yeah! Purple Rain! Keep it going!" Like, she was genuinely, not-at-all-sarcastically hyped about my purple shirt.

And I mean, I liked Prince, and I have zero problems with people associating my sartorial choices with him, but I definitely bought that shirt as a troll and wear it because, well, now I own it.

For you, the day Parasite Unseen wore a purple shirt was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 8:07 AM on July 28, 2016 [13 favorites]


"We'll always have "Morocco."
posted by Bob Regular at 8:08 AM on July 28, 2016


Also, the fez is due for a Grunkle Stan-inspired revival.
posted by palindromic at 8:10 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


As someone who has rather thinned hair to the point that my scalp burns very easily, and as someone who wears glasses, and someone who appreciates having some variety in fashion, I own several types of hats. If anyone wants to deride me as some sort of PUA because I happen to be wearing a fedora, that's on them- anyone who would come to such a judgement of me based purely upon an accessory is not someone that I'm inclined to get along with anyways.

To those of you who want to wear certain styles of hats but are afraid of how you will be judged - Fuck the haters, wear the hat.
posted by MysticMCJ at 8:16 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Speaking as a guy who is wearing a purple shirt at work right now, I don't really get why men's clothing is expected to remain in the boring color range. Sure, I like blues and grays and browns, but I also like green and orange and red and purple and salmon.

I've had two different ex-gfs both express to me that with my skin colour/tone, shirts that are of a pastel colour pallette are the best shirts for me to wear. I ALWAYS get compliments when I wear a fuschia dress shirt at work. Brightness for the win.
posted by Fizz at 8:18 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


My teenager wore his fez to the opera. To be fair, with the rest of the outfit, including bow tie, he was clearly cosplaying Dr who, but none of the old opera people knew that, and he received many compliments on what a dapper young man he was. It was pretty amusing.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:20 AM on July 28, 2016 [6 favorites]


UFO Field Investigator hat

I was excited to hear this because I imagined it must be something like a snap-side Tilley with a mesh antenna incorporated for the built-in EMF detector but it's just a stupid baseball cap with writing. Thanks for getting my hopes up robocop is bleeding, if that's even your real name.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:23 AM on July 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


It's very simple. Bowlers are reserved for departmental heads and above. Senior floor staff are allowed a homburg. Junior floor staff should wear caps or trilbys.
posted by infinitewindow at 8:24 AM on July 28, 2016 [11 favorites]


My whopping two months of experience reveals this can be a challenge these days, to be fair. I've had to set it on carefully-inspected restaurant floors and under church pews.

Rich men in Proust's day all put their (much more ambitious) hats on the floor of the house they were visiting. There's a bit of comedy when a more middle-class person doesn't recognize what's going on.
posted by praemunire at 8:25 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


middle-class person doesn't recognize what's going on

Care to explain it to this middle-class person?
posted by paper chromatographologist at 8:28 AM on July 28, 2016


Just wear an Australian slouch hat, or even better, how about a corker hat? That one's equally stylish anywhere you wear it.
posted by happyroach at 8:34 AM on July 28, 2016


like, a coworker actually laughed at me when I wore it on a rainy day

Your coworker later that day.
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:35 AM on July 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


What's to explain? They put their hats on the floor - a ridiculous conceit!
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 8:35 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


For you, the day Parasite Unseen wore a purple shirt was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday.

It may be the movie so bad that it killed Raul Julia, but at least we got that line out of it.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:36 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


I would like to get a hat to keep the sun off my face when I am hiking

The Akubra hats look nice but I imagine they'd get horrifyingly sweat-stained pretty quickly. Tilley summer hats are lightweight, crushable and washable; mine is the most functional thing I own.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:36 AM on July 28, 2016


EVERYONE SHOULD WEAR PROPELLER BEANIES
posted by Lucinda at 8:40 AM on July 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


A fez? No, no, no. I'll just leave this here.
posted by tuesdayschild at 8:41 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Obviously we need a return to the jughead hat.
posted by maxsparber at 8:42 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


It's very simple. Bowlers are reserved for departmental heads and above. Senior floor staff are allowed a homburg. Junior floor staff should wear caps or trilbys.

I bought a bowler hat to wear for my British citizenship ceremony a few years ago; I thought I'd mark the occasion by wearing the national costume (which I interpreted as a pinstripe suit and said hat, with a long black umbrella as a walking stick). I was the only person who bothered; everybody else came dressed as if to do a driving test or something.
posted by acb at 8:52 AM on July 28, 2016 [11 favorites]


What about tricorns? You hardly ever see tricorns around these days.

We went to D.C. in April and I was searching all over for a tricorn that wasn't a cardboard child's souvenir. If I had seen a proper, wool felt tricorn hat, I would have bought it without looking at the price.

No such hat was for sale, so I bought a Washington Senators hat at the Smithsonian Museum of American History. :7(
posted by wenestvedt at 9:07 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Okay, but the dress code says, "If your store requires you to wear hats by state or local law ..." so apparently that's something that happens somewhere? Where could I find a world map of places that require baristas to wear hats, because what is the rationale behind such laws?

Can't help you on the map, but in Oregon it gets a little tricky because of what government agency covers what types of establishments. If you're a retail establishment, you're covered by the department of health for your county. If you are a primarily wholesale establishment, you're covered by the department of agriculture. Both require head coverings, mainly hats or hair-nets if you're handling food at all, but as for enforcement? That's basically only done on the day of your inspection. In Oregon your barista, your bartender, even your waiter is supposed to be wearing a hat or hairnet. We're also supposed to be wearing beard-nets if you have a 5 o'clock shadow. No one does this, unless you've gotten on a serious shit list of someone at the department of ag or the health department.

The fedora alone has never been a signifier of assholery to me. A fedora can be a signifier of the "good guy" but not in isolation. The red-flag combination for me has always been any kind of fancy hat, and cargo pants. That's nature's way of saying stay away.
posted by furnace.heart at 9:08 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


I wear a conventional hat in an unconventional fashion: in early spring/late fall I wear a wool beret like a flatcap, unless it's bitterly cold and/or most of the winter, in which case I wear it like a snood, with my hair tucked up in it, lowered over my ears.

I dearly love that wool beret: I bought it in 1996 in France, and have yet, twenty years later, to actually wear it in the typical 'french' fashion of off-to-one-side. I misplaced it one summer (2010 I think?) packing/unpacking seasonal clothes and had to go a winter without it. That was a sad winter.
posted by eclectist at 9:08 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


My wife has the most amazing sunhats. They're huge and they actually make me feel cooler at the beach. So I wear one hers there. It looks weird, but I also like peering out from my circle of dime shade at the blinding sand and water.
posted by My Dad at 9:11 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


And while you are at it, turn that goddam baseball cap back around the right way. You ain't Yogi Berra.

If you really want to be cool, get yourself one of those Sherpa caps, and let the flaps stick out sideways.
posted by mule98J at 9:15 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Flat hats rule.
posted by herda05 at 9:19 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


And while you are at it, turn that goddam baseball cap back around the right way. You ain't Yogi Berra.

You just reminded me of one of my favorite memes: Breaking News.
posted by Mchelly at 9:26 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Tilley summer hats are lightweight, crushable and washable; mine is the most functional thing I own.

Surest way to half an hour straight of enthusiastic old-man talk: Ask my dad about his Tilley hat.
posted by Lyme Drop at 9:26 AM on July 28, 2016 [8 favorites]


I think Trump already has ruined baseball caps

that was Ashton Kutcher
posted by Lyme Drop at 9:33 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Make Americanos Great Again.
posted by furnace.heart at 9:35 AM on July 28, 2016


Tricorns are cool but I kind of feel like if you see somebody walking around in one you are probably looking at a Tea Partier, which will never be cool.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:35 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Gilligan hat 4 lyfe. Also called the bucket hat. Also worn by Hunter S. Thompson.
posted by Cookiebastard at 9:38 AM on July 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


I'm partial to fiddler caps, preferably without all the kitsch faux-nautical details.
posted by remembrancer at 9:40 AM on July 28, 2016


I fear the trend of making fun of people wearing stylish hats

I'm pretty sure it's more a trend of making fun of people wearing hats unstylishly.
posted by atoxyl at 10:01 AM on July 28, 2016


I, too, am a hat wearer. In fact, I had already grabbed a hat for today's afternoon dog walk before I saw this thread. Suck it, haters.
posted by workerant at 10:07 AM on July 28, 2016 [9 favorites]


Seriously is there any hat that person doesn't think is a sign of being a jerkwad on a man.

Tilley hats and baseball caps are pretty neutral.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 10:09 AM on July 28, 2016


Tricorns are cool but I kind of feel like if you see somebody walking around in one you are probably looking at a Tea Partier, which will never be cool.

I've only seen people in those hats doing historical reenactment (Colonial Williamsburg and similar style). Do Tea Partiers actually dress up that way as well? I guess there's all sorts of odd pageantry and cosplay at political rallies.
posted by theorique at 10:10 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


theorique, I think he meant Boston Tea Partiers.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 10:15 AM on July 28, 2016


theorique, I think he meant Boston Tea Partiers.
posted by I-Write-Essays


If only.
posted by workerant at 10:19 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Tea party protesters have indeed been wearing the tricorne. However, I think the Bicorne hat (think "Napoleon") is still up for grabs.
posted by fings at 10:19 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Your identity kit--the clothes you wear, the way you present yourself--is full of cultural markers. That's just a fact, and it has always been a fact. Most of those are probably intentional, but sometimes, you convey things you don't mean to, either because those markers have changed or because you just weren't aware of them in the first place. It happens to everyone, I suspect. All of a sudden, you find that, when you're wearing a certain pair of shoes, racists are thinking you're their friend. You get a bad haircut and suddenly, strangers all talk to you really slowly, explaining basic concepts as they go along. More often than not, you get some new thing and people just stare at you and you don't always know why. People judge others constantly, sometimes based on very limited information. That is just what people do.

You can't reason them out of that. People tend to be sort of oblivious to the fact that they're doing it, and the worst offenders will be the most offended if you point it out to them. Most of it is subconscious anyway. The fedora/trilby thing has only recently been so commonly articulated, but it didn't come out of the blue. I've been nervous about men in attention grabbing hats since I was a kid in the 80s, just based on personal experience with hatted men frequently being pushy and always being on some sort of mission to convince you of something. That's not always true, and I'm sure most people realize that. But you can't argue away subtle social cues by standing on street corners all day long explaining your hat to passersby.

Sorry about the shifting cultural trends that happened to your hats! Your choices are pretty much always going to be the same, though. You weigh the utility and your personal attachment to that thing against the negative social effects of it, and you decide whether it's worth it to you.
posted by ernielundquist at 10:28 AM on July 28, 2016 [20 favorites]


Forget the fedoras -- what does Starbucks have against berets?

Prohibiting them is an insult to the veterans of our nation's special forces.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:33 AM on July 28, 2016 [6 favorites]


If only I had a penguin...: Tilley hats and baseball caps are pretty neutral.

Maybe it's because I'm a child of the '80s, but those hats scream "nerd" and "jock", respectively, to me.
posted by clawsoon at 10:33 AM on July 28, 2016


Surest way to half an hour straight of enthusiastic old-man talk: Ask my dad about his Tilley hat.

Son, is that you? When did you get a MetaFilter account?!
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:35 AM on July 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


Oh, no. Not fedoras, too.

I grew a beard in 1996.
I started playing complicated boardgames in 1998.
I got into craft beer and homebrewing in 1999.
I started cycling to work in 2009 (no fixie, but still).

And around 2005 I started accumulating fedoras. I've always hated baseball caps, but hats are practical for rain and hide my boring hair, so yeah.

Can't I keep just one thing for myself, pop culture? Do you have to steal it all?!

Word to the wise: start buying stock in double-edge razor and blade companies.
posted by gurple at 10:37 AM on July 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


I didn't read through this thread yet, but having just watched The Expanse, I've come to realize that maybe the fedora's modern role as the headwear for geeky, often chauvinist guys, is originated in an unconscious influence of film noir. Miller is simultaneously such a misanthropic, yet idealizer of a woman, and literally a hardboiled detective archetype. So maybe the early purveyors of fedoras in the '90s were really into Sam Spade, and the modern ones are just following suit. Or, y'know, maybe it's just the fault of Indy Jones.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:37 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Related: Hatless Jack, JFK and the decline of American hat wearing.
posted by Damienmce at 10:37 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


I have a nice Tilley hat (a country cap, sort of a newsboy cap I guess) and it's got a secret pocket and hidden earmuffs that you can fold down and a lifetime warranty and it probably floats, too.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 10:41 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Pairing a formal hat like a trilby with jeans and a t-shirt indoors is the standard MO for a lot of modern hat wearers, and that is why they are Fedoras, while it is perfectly possible to sport a trilby and not be a Fedora, if it's a coherent part of an outfit, or at least just goes with the rest of your clothes.

No. Just no. This is not coherent outfit in any world unless you're a magician at a child's birthday party.
posted by Damienmce at 10:42 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


I like tricornes and do see them around as part of pirate costumes, at the very least. I feel that the general shape could be modernized, but they should be made smaller and thus less outlandish. A tricoronet, if you will.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:45 AM on July 28, 2016


A long time ago, I was in an Omaha bar with a group of friends and a young woman I did not know. I was wearing a bow tie and a vest, and she kept staring at me with a strange sort of rage. Finally she told me that she was from Washington DC, and there the vest/bow tie combination was the marker of a specific sort of young right wing conservative that she had obviously had a very bad time with.

In Omaha, it didn't mean anything in particular, except that if I also put on a straw hat, I was a Shakey's Pizza revivalist. You just never know what meaning people have attached to clothes.
posted by maxsparber at 10:50 AM on July 28, 2016 [11 favorites]


Portland, OR wouldn't be Portland without the lanky vegan queers wearing cycling caps.
posted by idiopath at 10:55 AM on July 28, 2016


To be honest, I don't see much point to wearing hats, unless I can do this with them.
posted by happyroach at 11:02 AM on July 28, 2016


posted by Hermione Granger I am already greeted by certain baristas at my local Starbuckses with "M'lady" Starbucks please do not add to my overwhelming sense of woe regarding this matter

M'latte.
posted by mattdidthat at 11:06 AM on July 28, 2016 [9 favorites]


Look at this 1850s scumbag PUA with his oil-cloth covered wheelcap. What a f*cking nice guy.
posted by jnnla at 11:07 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


M'latte.

M'acchiato
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 11:08 AM on July 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


I have a pristine tribley from my grandfather but I can not for the life of me imagine the general outfit needed to work, it would just be silly in shorts and a slightly torn tech-shwag tee shirt.

I'd wave and smile at you. Frankly, a trilby puts a punch to any outfit!
posted by BlueHorse at 11:20 AM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


...Having breasts seems to be largely against the new Starbucks style guide.
posted by maryr at 11:22 AM on July 28, 2016


Look if wearing jorts is against the law, then I guess I'm an outlaw.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 11:24 AM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


You're wearing lawn darts?
posted by maxsparber at 11:26 AM on July 28, 2016


Also, head scarves: In or out on style guide? Does not seem to be addressed. Are they safe as long as they are in the right pallette?
posted by maryr at 11:26 AM on July 28, 2016


Complain about fedoras all you want. You guys can have my awesome cavalier hat when you run me through with a rapier and take it from my cold, dead body.
posted by hanov3r at 11:35 AM on July 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


Back in the day, my uncle had a hat store--yes..back then you could do nothing sell hats and make a living--that sold hats, and over the entrance to the store, a sign that read:

WHEN BUYING A HAT, USE YOUR HEAD
posted by Postroad at 11:44 AM on July 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


Spelunkingplato - I'd put my hair up in a horizontal roll (eg, around a ribbon tied around your head under the hat, or with a hairdressing doodad) right below the back edge of the cloche. Put the hat on, adjust to flatter, run your fingertip very hard along the back edge, and your skin will probably remember the line while you put your hair up.
posted by clew at 11:45 AM on July 28, 2016


When I was a kid, older Jewish men wore hats over their yarmulkes and took off the hats indoors. No idea what observance they followed.
posted by clew at 11:47 AM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


And while you are at it, turn that goddam baseball cap back around the right way. You ain't Yogi Berra.

Sometimes the sun is in front of you and sometimes it is behind you. If there were a casual wide brim hat left in the world that didn't make me look like a dork or a douche, I'd wear that, but here we are.
posted by en forme de poire at 12:00 PM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


I have such an aversion to hats of any kind, that when I was 12, after more than 3 blissfully cap-free years, my little league finally got around to sending my coach a registered letter saying I could not play without a cap.

It was a dark day, and the beginning of a dimmer time.
posted by jamjam at 12:01 PM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


I proudly wear my derby hat (known as a bowler in the UK) on a regular basis. Did you know that once upon a time, it was by far the most commonly worn hat in the USA? Of course, I always take it off indoors.
posted by monospace at 12:01 PM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Also long hair on guys is great. Just look at Vikings. (Disclaimer, I have never actually watched an entire episode of Vikings, I have just walked by the screen while my roommates were watching it and thought, "those are some fine-looking dudes with long hair.")

The main reason I've never had long hair is because I am too impatient to get through the prolonged awkward limbo stage where I look like Triangle Man. Also, conditioning it etc. into the right regime of non-frizzy non-greasiness is a pain. Anyway, now it is too late because I am starting to go bald, shruggo, life is full of regrets!
posted by en forme de poire at 12:05 PM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Straw, wire in the brim, cowboy hat, bought at the Love's truck stop East of Indianapolis.

Purchased on the way to one of the last Formula 1 races, with the weather forecast calling for death rays from above.

Push the sides up, and it stays the hell out of your way, while shading your eyes and neck. If you're being roasted from above, pull the sides down, wide brimmed farmer hat style, and create a half sombrero worth of personal shade.

I use it when I play golf, because the Irish tolerate the sun so well, and it works great for me.

$17. Should have bought three of 'em.
posted by dglynn at 12:12 PM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


> I like tricornes and do see them around as part of pirate costumes, at the very least. I feel that the general shape could be modernized, but they should be made smaller and thus less outlandish. A tricoronet, if you will.

How about a triberet?
posted by I-Write-Essays at 12:34 PM on July 28, 2016


Meh. We'll survive excluding all the classical hat styles for a while if people really want to do that. After all, we inventing new hat stiles like all the time. Yey progress!

It's probably okay to wear a fedora though if you just steam punk it first, so that you just look a bit too into some RPG.
posted by jeffburdges at 12:39 PM on July 28, 2016


I seem to recall that one of the reasons cloche hats were such a thing in the 20's was that they are really hard to wear over long hair. Thus a lady in cloche was not only showing off her spiffy hat, but also that she had a fashionable 'do unlike one of those old fashioned girls who still wore their hair long.
posted by Karmakaze at 12:40 PM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


No canvas shoes? Synthetic leather ("rubber"?!) looks OK, but if it's alternated with mesh for breathability (like my go-to New Balance 847s), then it's banned again? Dang.
posted by morganw at 12:41 PM on July 28, 2016


I'm waiting for hats like this and this to go main stream, btw. Fuck off trilby!
posted by jeffburdges at 12:47 PM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


I do see fedora wearing at Film Noir festivals, but that's with full suits, 40s style. I think that's acceptable but anything else is ...yeah....
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 12:51 PM on July 28, 2016


Frowner, A+ Folk of the Air quote. The funny thing is that my only other FotA hat-related recollection is Crof's massive tam o'shanter, which not only marks him out as Ancient Mariner material himself but also *completely fails* to protect him from psychotic time-traveling medieval mercenaries. Hats = good for nothing.
posted by scyllary at 12:53 PM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


I certainly get a sense of a coherent style from the things they allow/prohibit (beyond the standard service industry stuff like "nobody else's logos" and "nothing super loud") but I don't totally know the right phrase to describe it. It's not really "hipster" as I think of it -- more like "LA-entertainment-industry pseudobeatnik"? Like when a sitcom wants to convey that someone is kinda artsy and sensitive and not a total suit, but in a jazzy acoustic-guitar kinda way and not an underground punk anarchy kind of way? Does anyone have a better word for it?
posted by en forme de poire at 12:55 PM on July 28, 2016


palindromic: "My family's hat game is strong."

That striped shirt under striped vest combo is also on the edge. Are those fabrics of different colors, because that would rock additionally.
posted by chavenet at 12:57 PM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


I see fashionable people wearing fedoras all the time and looking very cool in them, especially the ones that are completely covered in pink sequins. However I need to add that those people who look cool in fedoras are those at whom the Dora the Explorer franchise is aimed, and if they are older than about seven years old they look to me like they are trying to hang onto their Kindergarten days and do not yet feel ready for the transition from Infants school to Junior.

Which makes me think they would look kind of Lolita on a barista.
posted by Jane the Brown at 12:57 PM on July 28, 2016


The funny thing is that my only other FotA hat-related recollection is Crof's massive tam o'shanter

Oh, oh, and Julie has a purple velvet beret when they all go out hawking and Aiffe has the owl and everything is so sad.

Something funny about that book is the disproportion between intent and results. Like, Aiffe really does monstrous things, but...she's just a kid. She means them, but she doesn't have the self to mean them in a truly morally abhorrent way, and that gives the extra feeling of melancholy and realism to the story. I think about bits from that book all the time. Farrell? In certain respects, totally me.
posted by Frowner at 12:59 PM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


i do confess to having bought a purple fedora with feathers in it for a Prince singalong tribute but that was a special occasion so hopefully i get a free pass.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 1:01 PM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


TBQH I think I also just have negative associations of wide-brimmed hats because when I was a boy my mom would invariably try to make me wear one of her own sun hats when we went to the beach or to some other sunny place, as if family trips weren't awkward enough.
posted by en forme de poire at 1:04 PM on July 28, 2016


I'm basically school paste in a clear, woman-shaped container, so most of my hats have brims with their own ZIP code. But the uncomplicated soups of my childhood's hat with the secret pocket intrigues me. (Here's the flap-free warm-weather version.)
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:11 PM on July 28, 2016 [6 favorites]


Re wearing hats indoors.
I wear wooly hats to bed if it is cold enough. I am bald.
posted by Bee'sWing at 1:13 PM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Bee'sWing: I wear wooly hats to bed if it is cold enough.

A toque? (Americans need to learn this word. It is a good word. It is a useful word.)
posted by clawsoon at 1:17 PM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Toques to bed are def a necessity if, to take one completely hypothetical example, you forgot to order heating oil and it is January and it is 55 degrees in your bedroom and dropping.
posted by en forme de poire at 1:19 PM on July 28, 2016


But the hat with the secret pocket intrigues me.
posted by Iris Gambol


I have a boonie hat from Life is Good (it's several years old, so not on their website) that has a secret pocket in the crown. It's big enough for ID, credit card and a folded $20 but not big enough for a wallet.
posted by workerant at 1:24 PM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


i don't think you can be definitively identified as a tea party nut unless you're one of those people who has tied actual tea bags to dangle off your tri corner hat
posted by indubitable at 1:30 PM on July 28, 2016 [5 favorites]


Also if your hat is "hipsterish" doesn't that mean it is in style? Just - kinda too in style? It doesn't bug me when something I wear becomes trendy, on the contrary - "yup, I totally meant to do that, on purpose."
posted by atoxyl at 1:31 PM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Back in my day as a surly barista at an indie roaster, we wore black or grey T-shirts, dark denim, and Vans. Headwear of your choice kept your hair out of the kitchen and also kept the kitchen out of your hair. But nobody chose to wear a trilby.

I, too, want the "Sports!" ball cap!
posted by a halcyon day at 1:50 PM on July 28, 2016


A toque? (Americans need to learn this word. It is a good word. It is a useful word.)

De Toqueville would agree.

Hm? What's that?

Spelled with a "c"? Really?

*sad face*
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:53 PM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


I fell in love with a young man who wore a fedora and called me "my lady." That was because it was 1994, and the world was yet innocent of what this signified.

Also this conversation has probably been had plenty of times already but I basically have two negative stereotypes of fedora/trilby/etc. wearing. The first and older one is a young dorky guy who picked up a cool-movie-guy hat hoping it would make him look suave and adult, but who actually looked like an even bigger dork because he was wearing it with an anime shirt and a wispy teenage beard. C.F. trench coats and dusters. This has never actually not been embarrassing but plenty of us have done it or something equivalent and turned out fine. The second is the Mystery-school PUA guys working "wear a hat to stand out from the crowd/start a conversation" into their "system." When the first guy starts listening too much to the second guy things can go badly, which gives us the current image bandied about on the internet. None of these hat-wearing characters is fashionable though at this point the innocent hat-dork probably does get conflated with the harmful hat-dork more than is fair. Yet I am still not convinced that the hats in question have become unwearable in the right outfit and context.
posted by atoxyl at 2:03 PM on July 28, 2016 [11 favorites]


Just - kinda too in style?

What if style, but too much
posted by en forme de poire at 2:16 PM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


I usually wear a baseball cap outside, because I am balding and extremely white and burn with a loud crackling sound. The only time in recent months that I have worn a brimmed hat is when my daughter refuses to wear hers and I, lacking any other place to put it, stick it on my head. A straw hat with a pink bow made for a five year old on the head of a mid-40s dude is... well, let's just say that whatever look I'm going for, I'm confident that I'm missing it.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 2:40 PM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Cloches are still okay, right?

I kept reading that as clothes and started panicking at the thought of this whole new standard that I couldn't possibly meet. The day that having pockets is out, so am I.
posted by iamkimiam at 2:43 PM on July 28, 2016 [7 favorites]


Why is this here? Seriously? It's smug, clickbait non-journalism where the only "original" (as in not copy-pasted from twitter) thought in the entire piece is bashing of service workers. Are we really sure that Mr. Klee isn't the one wearing the fedora when posting this?
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 3:40 PM on July 28, 2016


This man is wearing a toque (/ˈtoʊk/ or /ˈtɒk/). A knit cap is called a tuque. (But English-speakers have a hard time with the /ø/ /y/ /ɔ/ vowels, so the confusion is understandable)
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 3:48 PM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


As a lady who lives somewhere where it's sunny and warm most of the year, I quite like my lightweight trilby (or a ballcap if I'm going to the gym.) Keeps me from needing to slather sunscreen on my forehead that may end up sweating into my eyes. For what it's worth, the only people I've seen wearing a fedora or trilby anytime recently have been ladies, too.

Now I want one of the huge-brimmed ones Mchelly linked, too; those are beautiful!
posted by tautological at 3:58 PM on July 28, 2016


I am now getting fedora ads on every website I visit on my phone and I am so mad at all of you
posted by penduluum at 4:50 PM on July 28, 2016 [14 favorites]


The best rain/sun hat I own is an akubra "snowy mountain." I also own a resistol cowboy hat (the same "shitkicker hat" featured in Kill Bill 2) that I bought in arizona. The panama I got at ll bean is awesome, and I wear it as well. I also have a stetson "river runs through it" fedora that is great in the winter.

People are people, hats are hats. Stereotypes are painful to consider, and often true, but almost as often, not. I sweat a lot, and I wear a bandanna to keep the rivulets of sweat from soaking my hair and running into my eyes. If you see me on the docks (I work as a dockmaster) you might take me as some kinda hippy pirate. You'd only be half wrong.

Enjoy your hats, hat people, and let the hat haters judge. It's only a lid, now where is my fid? And the dock cat jumped over the moon.
posted by valkane at 4:58 PM on July 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


One of the few advantages of aging is the older I get the more IJDGAF what other people think about things like my hat choice. I pretty much wear a side-snap boonie/bucket hat when ever I'm in the sun and I don't see that changing (though I've been seeing more Tilley style hats around and if they make one that will stand being folded into quarters and stuffed in a pocket I'd consider it).

Sonny Jim: "Caucasians do have one wide brimmed hat option left: the Stetson. It carries a significant risk of looking like an asshole, but you won't get skin cancer and you won't be mistaken for an MRA."

They make cowboy hat hardhats (invention story) and I've only ever seen them in brilliant white. I think you can guess the personality of anyone wearing one. Which is really too bad because the hard hat world desperately needs some shape variation. I mean the current standard hat is exactly the same model as one produced in the early sixties and it's not a particularly good look. Somewhat ironically where allowed they tend to be extensively stickered.
posted by Mitheral at 4:59 PM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


Colors left the clothes palette in the early nineties when we became 'all war, all the time'.
Khaki and black have sucked the life out.
"Protest the Rising Tide of Conformity."
posted by Mesaverdian at 5:23 PM on July 28, 2016


The thing about the fedora/trilby look nowadays is that it's never paired with an appropriate outfit. The only thing that really matches is a well-tailored classic suit. Most "nice guys" are wearing them with whatever they happen to have on. T-shirt? Jeans? Sweater? Leather bomber jacket? No hat for you! The worst is the ones that look like they think they're an edgy comic book character from the 1990s designed by Rob Liefeld. You know the look: doc martens, black or grey cargo pants with lots of pouches (natch), black t-shirt, ideally with a pop-culture mash-up on it. A black trench coat, or duster, or a leather version of the same, leather driving gloves (though they have no car), wispy chin pubes, pony-tail, huge sense of self-satisfaction, and a fucking fedora on top.... And every sentence they say starts with either "well, actually..." or "apparently..."

Yup. Chick magnets.
posted by wabbittwax at 5:42 PM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


The worst is the ones that look like they think they're an edgy comic book character from the 1990s designed by Rob Liefeld. You know the look ...
You left out an important part of the Fedora ensemble: the wearer is usually a person of significant size. Sometimes it seems like the anti-fedora sentiment is merely veiled fat-shaming.
posted by b1tr0t at 6:33 PM on July 28, 2016 [3 favorites]


You left out an important part of the Fedora ensemble: the wearer is usually a person of significant size. Sometimes it seems like the anti-fedora sentiment is merely veiled fat-shaming.

That has so not been my experience. 'Gangly' and 'scrawny' are the words that would most immediately come to mind for most Fedoras I know.
posted by Dysk at 7:42 PM on July 28, 2016 [2 favorites]


Looking for a hat but don't want to be "That Guy"? Me too. Here are some of my recent attempts to keep the sun off my face and my head not cold in the winter:

The Bucket Hat - a staple in #streetwear. Felt very much 2001 when i first put it on. Still does. But I think it looks ok.

The straw hmmm probably a trillby. The key here is texture and color. I don't think this will be mistaken for anything but a sun hat.

The Stormy Kromer - called by an elderly coworker "Your hunting hat." It functions like a warm ball cap, but the texture, layers, and classic color put it in a different style entirely.
posted by rebent at 8:28 PM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


When I was in high school and had the figure to profit mightily from a vintage clothes habit, I bought a beautiful hat: a made back when people actually wore them, dark teal felt trilby, with a caramel coloured feather in its brim. I never wore it because I am far more performative in my head than in real life, but I did take it (intending to wear it) to a party, where I left it accidentally. It was claimed by the boyfriend of one of my friends, and I never saw it again. The end.

Now I just wear straw hats all summer, but I have trouble finding hats I like for winter. I like brightly coloured beanies, but people smile tolerantly at me when I wear them so I think maybe I look a little bit simple? not sure. I'm knitting a beret to try that out.
posted by glitter at 9:11 PM on July 28, 2016


You know the look: doc martens, black or grey cargo pants with lots of pouches (natch), black t-shirt, ideally with a pop-culture mash-up on it. A black trench coat, or duster, or a leather version of the same, leather driving gloves (though they have no car), wispy chin pubes, pony-tail, huge sense of self-satisfaction, and a fucking fedora on top....

And this was such an 80's thing, one that didn't need to come back. But yes, you can wear any hat you want if you wear the appropriate outfit.

Cloches are still okay, right?

There is absolutely no reason to not be wearing that hat as often as possible.

Can't I keep just one thing for myself, pop culture? Do you have to steal it all?!

I think I said this before, being a middle aged man and having the things I've done for 25 years suddenly become hip is painful. It's impossible to not look like you're trying too hard.
posted by bongo_x at 10:36 PM on July 28, 2016 [1 favorite]


Ah, who gives a shit. Find a lid you like, with a brim that protects your eyes, bald spot & ears from the sun, and stop worrying about what the Youngs think - they're all fashion victims anyway, these days... maybe, 'twas ever thus.
posted by Rash at 10:55 PM on July 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


I do think this kinda smacks of "the only hat a dude is allowed to wear without ridicule is a baseball cap." Which in turn reminds me of the movie Clueless and guys covering up their greasy hair with a backwards cap, EW, and we're supposed to like, swoon? I don't THINK so!

....Anyway, I haven't really run into these rumored douches in fedoras. Mostly the ones I've known just did cosplay or were pagans or some other nerd culture thing and seemed nice enough and weren't trolling on me. Hell, I have an Indiana Jones one that I wear in bad weather. I've probably met more creepers wearing baseball caps than anything else, for the record.

I have a fair amount of hats and wish I could get away with wearing them more often, but when you spend 90% of your time indoors/in the car/at work (wearing headphones) and people bitch about the no indoor hats rule, it's like, what's the point? So by the time I'm actually going to be outside all day, someone will go, "Where's your hat?" and I have totally forgotten that today I could actually wear one. Feh.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:20 PM on July 28, 2016 [4 favorites]


The primary thing that keeps me from wearing hats is that I tend to wear my hair up in a bun or at least pin my pigtails to the top of my head. It makes hats fit wrong. When it's super cold, I have a cape with a hood that comes more than far enough forward to also shield my eyes, when it's a little cold, I wrap a scarf over my head, and when it's warm... I get a sunburned forehead. Hm, I need to think on this. I used to wear a ponytail pulled through the gap in a baseball cap above the adjustment strap but I don't think I can pull off that look anymore.
posted by Karmakaze at 6:04 AM on July 29, 2016


Dysk: 'Gangly' and 'scrawny' are the words that would most immediately come to mind for most Fedoras I know.

Either way - too fat or too skinny - it's low-status guys. Guys who are supposed to, as Nothing eloquently put it, stay invisible.
posted by clawsoon at 6:44 AM on July 29, 2016 [3 favorites]


Fedora is as Fedora does. There are plenty of absolutely lovely and gorgeous scrawny and gangly guys. If you're aggressively creepy in your behaviour towards women, then yes, please be invisible or ideally not there at all. Or just stop doing that.
posted by Dysk at 6:54 AM on July 29, 2016 [4 favorites]


Make Americanos Great Again.

Sorry to break it to you, but Americanos are watery espresso. They have never been great. I die a little inside every time I make one.
posted by needs more cowbell at 9:21 AM on July 29, 2016 [5 favorites]


and while i am at it, barista is a stupid word for another dumbass in a fast-food type job, perhaps a step up from order taker at burger king, but nowhere near impressive enough to warrant the pretentious name.

I'm sorry that this is one of my pistols at dawn things, but i was a barista for years and at my old and final coffee job(at a high end internationally renown shop) where i worked in operations, barista training was a six month process and the owner AND the head trainer had to sign off on you being skills-complete at the end. Getting "certified" was a huge deal where there would be an actual celebration and and people would draw cute signs to put in the break rooms about it. Even mid-level shops in Seattle have complex training processes/skills testing, some of which are even available or used by people from other shops or who fly in to town to take them.

Is Starbucks using it as silly as subway calling their employees "sandwich artists?" kind of, but it's absolutely a skilled labor job in the same sense that like, a line cook is. Just because they microwave everything at olive garden doesn't mean there's no such thing as cooking skills or that "chef" is a pretentious name.

Just because it's mostly automated at starbucks doesn't mean it isn't generally a hard to master skilled job. I'd also love to see some kind of statistical breakdown of the gender ratio among baristas, because from my totally-anecdata perspective this seems like one of those "shitting on pink collar jobs as silly and inconsequential/unskilled" things since it seems to be more than slightly weighted towards women.
posted by emptythought at 10:41 AM on July 29, 2016 [21 favorites]


Americanos are watery espresso.

I think of them as a cup of fresh coffee brewed especially for me, with love.


I die a little inside every time I make one.

Now I am sad.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:31 PM on July 29, 2016


Fezzes. Who even thinks to disparage such a fine, noble hat?

I've reduced my collection to two now. A gorgeous black velvet one from Czechoslovakia (yes it is an older hat) and a striking red felt number from Palestine (well...Israel, but you know). With a proper, formal dress, they evoke an old-world cosmopolitan feel. They also work well with my current facial lettuce, albeit my hair is maybe a little incongruous these days. I don't wear them often but they never fail to impress.

Not sure why I feel compelled to trot out my bona fides, but I'm too old to be a hipster and too introverted to even desire being a PUA and too gifted with a sense of social justice to be an MRA. I have since the age of consent, and will continue for the foreseeable future, rock a proper head cover.

and I will cut the next one of you who dare besmirch the glorious fez.
posted by Fezboy! at 1:59 PM on July 29, 2016 [5 favorites]


I do think this kinda smacks of "the only hat a dude is allowed to wear without ridicule is a baseball cap."


When I turned 30 I hung up my baseball cap for good. It was time to put away childish things. Not an American though, and I was living outside of North America in a country where grown men do not wear shorts in public.

I'm encouraging my son to give up his baseball hat by the age of 25, and grow up a little faster than I did.
posted by My Dad at 2:30 PM on July 29, 2016


I was living outside of North America in a country where grown men do not wear shorts in public.

Nunavut? It's not technically a country
posted by beerperson at 3:42 PM on July 29, 2016 [3 favorites]


So I've never owned a hat, but I study the Victorian period, and this thread just made me realize I'm a lot closer than I thought to buying a Victorian-style slouch hat at some point in the near future. I figure I can make it cool if I really own it. Right? Right?
posted by teponaztli at 4:48 PM on July 29, 2016 [1 favorite]


I was searching all over for a tricorn that wasn't a cardboard child's souvenir.

Something close (and historical!) I found while researching a recent post: the Wide-Awake. Shout-out to the Bollman Hat Company for pretty much all of the historical stuff they make...but this jockey cap is adorable. I really need to become a hat lady, sigh.
posted by MonkeyToes at 5:59 PM on July 29, 2016 [1 favorite]


It doesn't help that the wearers of fedoras consistently attract additional attention for being jerky. It is a correlation people can't fail to see.

My spouse wears a fedora on special occasions. Thanks for calling him a jerk.

also: this "no hats inside" thing? gonna wear a hat inside anytime I feel like it, but especially at synagogue. Seriously, Jews have carte blanche to wear a hat indoors anytime, unless they are blocking your view (like at a theatre or something). Lots of Jews wear hats others than kippot, as a matter of their religion. (or in addition to, with the classic "double hatting").
posted by jb at 6:17 PM on July 29, 2016


When I turned 30 I hung up my baseball cap for good. It was time to put away childish things.
It took me a little bit longer to feel like I'd outgrown baseball caps, but I still make an occasional exception for my fitted 2004 Red Sox World Series cap (basically the same one the players wore during the series), because c'mon! And it's actually quite a nice cap in terms of construction, materials and embroidery. I'll sometimes wear it while running errands on a day they're playing a rival like the Yankees.
posted by usonian at 7:18 PM on July 29, 2016


Thanks for the lookbook link. I was supposed to glance at it this week. Turns out the new palettes and cuts are pretty much most of my closet, but I haven't decided whether or not I'll expand from the tried-and-true workhorse outfit I wear every day at the $bux:

3-hole China Docs
Black Dickies chinos
Black 65/35 poly/cotton Van Heusen long-sleeve button-up

This shirt is the bomb. I've worn the same one four days a week for the past seven years. I've had a few back-ups that have suffered irreversible damage of some sort or another, but if it weren't for those freak snags I'd fully expect them to still be fine. They're cut just right, not slim by any measure but also not billowy, and in good proportion for the various sizes and lengths. They stay tucked-in. The fabric blend is some dark magic that looks good and stays cool and dry. I used to buy one whenever I'd see it at Goodwill, but I don't need that many. It's saved in my cart at Amazon too, for emergencies, and it's usually cheap there.

Anyway, I don't really need many more hues or accents to express myself. Bully for those who appreciate the additional wiggle room, but my soul is as black as my shirt and my Venti Veranda and I was already wearing Superman or polka-dot socks because fuck you corporate dress code.
posted by carsonb at 7:51 PM on July 29, 2016 [4 favorites]


The hat deal is interesting. I like the Starbucks-issue caps because they've only gotten more comfortable over the years. But a solid-black fitted ballcap could be nice.
posted by carsonb at 7:53 PM on July 29, 2016


I just realized $bux just gave me a few hundred bucks bonus, presumably to go on a shopping spree with. I want Sartana's hat! What do you call that?
posted by carsonb at 8:13 PM on July 29, 2016


Oh, Fezboy, sorry, but a hat without a brim (especially in a sunny place like Turkey, from whence they came) is just wrong. Maybe okay for Shriners, or Akbar and Jeff, but not in the desert.
posted by Rash at 9:24 PM on July 29, 2016



carsonb: "Sartana's hat! What do you call that?"

Looks like a variation on the Boss of the Plains. Or a Gambler; the difference is in the crown which you can't see from this vantage. Authentic versions are made of beaver fur and are expensive; cheap ones are made from rabbits.
posted by Mitheral at 9:39 PM on July 29, 2016 [2 favorites]


On the green, a question about hats indoors.
In my experience, most fedora wearers have limited social skills.
posted by Ideefixe at 10:59 PM on July 29, 2016


I agree, the world's nowhere near judgy enough already, people who wear fedoras should be totally ashamed of themselves for not sharing my sartorial opinion
posted by Lyme Drop at 11:42 PM on July 29, 2016 [1 favorite]


I wear sun hats, as wide brimmed as possible, when doing field work or anything else outdoors in the summer. I am too white and too balding to ever do otherwise, and I don't really care if they are flattering or not as long as they provide shade.

I have the same negative associations with fedora-ish hats as has been described already, mostly from memories of painfully awkward acquaintances in high school. But these days I mostly see them worn as parts of outfits (sometimes more flattering, sometimes less flattering) by more normal looking people, and I suspect that the negative connotations are outdated and misapplied.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:16 AM on July 30, 2016


A little late but:

That striped shirt under striped vest combo is also on the edge. Are those fabrics of different colors, because that would rock additionally.

Yep! The vest is traditional light blue/white seersucker, and the shirt is deep mauve.
posted by palindromic at 7:06 AM on July 30, 2016 [1 favorite]


To counter the "Baristas are barely more than fast food employees" thought, let me share one of my favorite flash fiction stories, The Bitter Kiss of the Ronin's Cup. It deserves to be listened to as broadcast on The Voice of Free Planet X (skip ahead to 3:41 to get to the start of the story, which lasts 7:30) but if you prefer text it's here.
posted by JDHarper at 10:26 AM on July 30, 2016 [1 favorite]


I spend a lot of time outside and can't use sunscreen. So, hats it is. Usually in Men's sizes and styles because my head is large. Panama or straw hat in the summer, felt fedora in winter.
One time my family (husband, daughter and I) were out walking with our respective Panamas and little-girl-straw-hat and came across a neighbor whose most outstanding fashion statement were cargo shorts. He snorted 'Well hello! It's the fancy hat family!' -
Hats really bring out the class war in people.
posted by The Toad at 5:02 PM on July 30, 2016 [4 favorites]




What about tricorns? You hardly ever see tricorns around these days.

I own two


Were you ever a D.C. Delegate to the Democratic National Convention?
posted by jgirl at 8:17 PM on July 30, 2016 [1 favorite]


People ought to be free to experiment with how they dress and present themselves. Mr Klee seems interested in spinning up clickbait to reverberate within Reddit-fueled meme chambers. This is fine, I suppose, but it's not helping his readers be less judgmental.

Starbucks is liberalizing their dress code, and that's a good thing. Living in Brooklyn, I see all kinds of formal and informal headwear constantly. It confuses me why seeing somebody wearing a tasteful and formal style like the Fedora would provoke such resentment. So I suppose this snark-piece just misses the mark for me.

Glad to see so much hat-love here!
posted by phenylphenol at 8:47 PM on July 30, 2016


a neighbor whose most outstanding fashion statement were cargo shorts.

CARGO SHORTS ARE EVERY BIT AS FUNCTIONAL AS MY TILLEY HAT DAMMIT
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:04 PM on July 30, 2016 [4 favorites]


I love whatever this kind of uniform thing is called. I remember being fascinated by the options for Girl Scouts (similar to this) when I was a kid. Anyway, I'm all for anything that keeps hair out of my coffee and gives an employees options that are casual, made of natural fibers, and slightly dignified.

I don't really care if they are flattering or not as long as they provide shade.

Yeah, I have a dumb straw cowboy hat that I live in becaus it provides shade without making my head sweat. I was self-conscious about it at first but now I don't care what anyone thinks about it.

Re: cargo shorts, @midnight's Chris Hardwick once called comedian Jesse Joyce "human cargo shorts." I only know Joyce from the show but he wasn't that cargo short-y. I don't begrudge men wearing clean, properly-sized cargo shorts because there really arent a lot of shorts choices for men, especially if you are on the casual side.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:20 AM on July 31, 2016 [1 favorite]


They have never been great.

They're a perfectly cromulent drink. Especially when you're outside of the States and can't get a cup of drip coffee to save your life.
posted by hwyengr at 11:42 AM on July 31, 2016 [1 favorite]


They're basically the only place you can get non-instant decaf in Europe (well, the parts of Europe we've been to).
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:54 AM on July 31, 2016 [1 favorite]


in Toronto, where we have very few public washrooms, you are always allowed to use the washroom at Starbucks without making a purchase, and they tend not to chase out people unless they are sleeping or disturbing other patrons. They also give out free water without purchase.

as an ex-employee, I also felt more protected against manager/supervisor abuse than any other minimum wage job.

sbux is big, corporate, puts too much emphasis on the upsell and too controlling of their employees' appearance (they made me take out my hair clips because they were rainbow and that was too political). but uniformity and control also means that good policies are enforced.
posted by jb at 12:24 PM on July 31, 2016 [1 favorite]


re decaf: even if they have stopped brewing decaf, you don't have to accept an Americano (unless you want to). Ask for pour over - it will take a few minutes, but worth it and should be the same price as brewed.
posted by jb at 12:25 PM on July 31, 2016


'Well hello! It's the fancy hat family!'

Sounds like either a line in a Berenstain Bears book or a wicked cool bunch of folks!
posted by BlueHorse at 3:53 PM on July 31, 2016 [5 favorites]


They're basically the only the only place you can get non-instant decaf in Europe

... and Asia, as well.

where we have very few public washrooms

This is why McDonalds is the international sign of the restroom, to me. Especially in Europe, where there won't be a creepy attendant in there, demanding a coin for entry.
posted by Rash at 7:55 PM on July 31, 2016 [2 favorites]


does sbux still pay its baristas reasonably well and w/ benefits? that is one main reason why I feel ok about patronizing them. (I think YCTAB made this point in a prev thread?)
posted by en forme de poire at 10:08 PM on July 31, 2016


pay in Canada isn't good: they start at minimum. they do offer wage raises (which I've never heard of from other minimum wage places), and benefits if you work 20 hours or more per week. (of course, benefits in Canada are nice but less important than in the US).

as for scheduling: it depends. there was a big exposé about last minute computer-based scheduling in the US, but my Canadian manager always had the schedule available a week before (if not earlier). Also, they were really good about respecting your unavailable times.

I think things may be different elsewhere. Baristas in TO are often university students, have more choice about jobs, and more cultural capital to look out for their rights (certainly I did). The ones who needed full time hours didn't always get them, and it's still stressful, low paid work. (Even shift supervisors only got between $12-$15/hour when I was there in 2015 - minimum is $11 in Ontario).

That's not Starbucks' fault: all food service is like this. You would have to never buy food or drinks when out to avoid patronising places with low pay.
posted by jb at 5:53 AM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]


Sure of course, I meant relative to other fast food service jobs. And I guess I must have been thinking about benefits mostly and not the pay.
posted by en forme de poire at 11:09 AM on August 1, 2016


gosh, yes. In the choice between Sbux and another coffee shop/food place, good chance Sbux pays better, gives benefits, and cares more about worker safety.

a lot of people I know have a thing against sbux because they are a huge multinational. but that little indie down the street? their workers may be allowed to have tattoos and wear ripped jeans to work, but (based on the experiences of friends) it's a good chance they are paid less, have a more difficult schedule and have fewer protections - including safety provisions - than workers at sbux. (my local roast-their-own keeps the roaster in a space too small to be safe; one of the roasters was burned badly on his hand).
posted by jb at 11:34 AM on August 1, 2016 [2 favorites]


I've commented on headwear elsewhere. I fully support any headwear choice you might make. I don't have to like it.
But then I live in hell and anything covering any part of your body gets you extra credit for giving a shit about your health. Wear a fedora with shorts and a t-shirt. Good on you for protecting your scalp and face from the sun. And go ahead and leave it on inside because where the hell are you supposed to put it in this modern world.

But tri-corns . . .
Everyone who's anyone knows that the easiest place to get a tri-corn (or other historical hat styles) is Jas. Townsend and Son. Women's choices aren't as numerous
posted by Seamus at 11:45 AM on August 1, 2016 [5 favorites]


You can also knit and felt yourself a tri-corn hat, mine came out pretty well.
posted by usonian at 1:37 PM on August 1, 2016 [7 favorites]


No canvas shoes? Synthetic leather ("rubber"?!) looks OK, but if it's alternated with mesh for breathability (like my go-to New Balance 847s), then it's banned again? Dang.

It's so you don't pour burning hot coffee on your shoes and severely burn your feet.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 4:49 PM on August 1, 2016 [7 favorites]


the shoe thing is about safety. hot water soaks into a cloth shoe and is held against the skin (burning it), but runs off leather/fake leather.
posted by jb at 5:30 PM on August 1, 2016 [3 favorites]


does sbux still pay its baristas reasonably well and w/ benefits?

I've been at the 'bux for a number of years now. Just a barista, no aspiration to supervise teenagers in this guy; I just enjoy breaking fasts and enabling caffeine addictions. It's always been my folding-money job so I admit to not keeping track too closely what they're paying me, but:

$11+/hr. plus weekly cash tips (prob. ~$1/hr.)
(Starbucks has committed to raising starting wages over the next few years to something closer to livable.)
Restricted Stock Units grants almost annually (double the usual this year) that pay out over the course of several years.
Matching savings contributions up to 16% of pay.
Part time benefits (work 20hrs/wk.) include
Health coverage
Tuition reimbursement at Arizona State University
That's most of it?
I also just got a $500 bonus on this last paycheck.

The catering company that's in my Sbux building just tried to poach me for their fancy new third-wave cafe down the block and nearly balked when I laid out my compensation expectations. It's gotta be hard for a smaller operation to compete with that sort of package.
posted by carsonb at 11:17 AM on August 2, 2016


in Toronto, where we have very few public washrooms, you are always allowed to use the washroom at Starbucks without making a purchase, and they tend not to chase out people unless they are sleeping or disturbing other patrons. They also give out free water without purchase.

As someone who has worked a bunch of food and customer service jobs in the past, i could never decide how i felt about this.

On one hand, it's utterly awesome in situations where i've been in some random city i've never visited and i'm having a really hard time finding a damn bottle of water that isn't 6oz or $5 and i'm just parched, or i need to use a bathroom now and i'm lost.

On the other hand, i've worked at places where dealing with non-customers in the bathroom was the absolute fucking most awful, stressful, and dangerous part of the job. Not to mention the interactions between people coming in just to use the bathroom and customers when it was someone super mentally ill/violent/etc.

Can "customers only" be gamed by sharing the code even if you change it weekly, passing the key along, holding the door, etc? Yea, but not being known as the "chill spot" cuts way, way down in all but the absolute worst locations.

And there are starbucks shops that are REALLY rude or try and lie about the code/water thing, but they always seem to be in locations with a large homeless population or otherwise awful follow-on effects for those(for example, a store open really late or 24hr right near a wall of bars, or in the middle of a big cities downtown).

Basically, starbucks is solving a problem that should really be solved by city governments. And all the negative impacts of that and maintenance of the aftermath are taken out on their employees, who are mostly making minimum wage to often clean up blood and geysers of shit. I just... don't know how i feel about it and give them a super sympathetic look and quietly leave if they try and shoo me unless i'm absolutely about to crap my pants or something.

I tend to dislike those "let even the potential customer do anything they want!" policies where employees are expected to deal with the aftermath but are hamstrung to prevent any abuse of the system for similar reasons.
posted by emptythought at 1:58 PM on August 2, 2016 [4 favorites]


does sbux still pay its baristas reasonably well and w/ benefits?

I make 33 cents more per hour than my city's (high for the US) minimum wage, plus tips ($1-$1.50/hr). When I started two years ago, when our city's minimum wage was about $3 lower, I made about 50 cents above minimum wage. If I were to transfer to a state with lower minimum wage, I would face a steep pay cut rather than continuing to make what I do now.

Our hours are cut down a lot from week to week based on projected sales (they look at the previous week's sales and adjust things), which I understand from a business perspective but which feels shitty to me as an employee, and confirms to me that they value the bottom line far more than they value me or my coworkers being able to pay our bills.

The thing that really irritates me is that there is a fund to help employees who have financial crises--financed entirely by donations from other employees. Sbux is proud of this but to me it seems really unjust to solicit donations from minimum-wage service workers to help other minimum-wage service workers pay their bills. Maybe these people wouldn't be in dire financial trouble if they were paid enough to save a little money for an emergency fund, eh?

The health insurance is good, however, given how little I earn, if I didn't get health insurance through them I would be eligible for very deeply subsidized Obamacare plans that would also be pretty good.

I am told that it's a reasonably good retail job, as retail jobs go (which is probably a low bar) and it has been good for me for some particular reasons, but overall, I am not impressed. I don't think people should feel bad about buying drinks at sbux if they like the coffee, but I would not specifically patronize it because of the "good" labor practices.
posted by needs more cowbell at 4:50 PM on August 2, 2016 [5 favorites]




Okay - cargo shorts. I don't get why they are suddenly pariah. They are shorts with a lot of pockets, what's wrong with that? I wear them myself. Not to work or anything, but when I'm hanging around on the weekend, or I'm going out somewhere outdoorsy? Sure. I honestly wouldn't care a tinker's damn if a guy was wearing them or not.

I should add the disclaimer that I'm a woman and we usually don't have pockets in our clothing, so cargo shorts are a refreshing change.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:36 AM on August 7, 2016 [1 favorite]


I love my cargo shorts. I also really love these Dockers "Perfect Short" shorts, which are just normal non-cargo shorts EXCEPT they have this extra smartphone pocket, which effectively frees up one of the front pockets for other things. And they look good!
posted by JDHarper at 8:57 AM on August 7, 2016


Okay - cargo shorts. I don't get why they are suddenly pariah.

EC, I think that just applies to men who wear cargo shorts.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:30 AM on August 7, 2016


Yeah, I know. That's exactly who I was talking about.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:36 AM on August 7, 2016


I AM NOT A PAR– oh, who am I kidding, yes I am.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:05 AM on August 7, 2016


I don't really wear shorts almost ever, but I do wear cargo pants sometimes, especially for field work. They are super practical but not incredibly flattering, and cargo shorts in particular have an association with going for function only, style not at all.

In practical terms, they are the opposite of skinny jeans, and so function as a social marker around fashion and identity.
posted by Dip Flash at 11:12 AM on August 7, 2016 [1 favorite]


going for function only, style not at all

You say that like its a bad thing.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:13 PM on August 7, 2016 [2 favorites]


I think cargo shorts are kinda hot on some guys tbh. The main issue is that for a while everyone was wearing basically the same cut regardless of body type, and as with a lot of clothes, the mainstream cuts flatter a minority of wearers. Plus they were popular with d-bags of a certain era (both the 00s A&F "masc4masc" types and the actual frat boys they were emulating). But they're not like, objectively worse than those bright chino shorts all the modern prep bros are into, IMO.
posted by en forme de poire at 9:19 PM on August 7, 2016 [3 favorites]


I have a sneaking suspicion that all this critical scrutiny of men's fashion choices has a lot of women quietly snickering.
posted by TedW at 6:13 AM on August 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


I have a sneaking suspicion that all this critical scrutiny of men's fashion choices has a lot of women quietly snickering

Not this woman. I'm sorry that more people are having needless bullshit dumped on their choices.
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:29 AM on August 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Not this woman. I'm sorry that more people are having needless bullshit dumped on their choices.

Agree completely; maybe if more people (especially the ~50% that still run things) were on the receiving end of said bullshit we'd see a little less of it.
posted by TedW at 7:40 AM on August 8, 2016


TedW I see where your reasoning comes from, but more bullshit is more bullshit. Exposing more people to bullshit doesn't reduce the amount of bullshit people are exposed to.

Lead by example, and encourage others to follow suit.
posted by carsonb at 10:23 AM on August 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Plus they were popular with d-bags of a certain era (both the 00s A&F "masc4masc" types and the actual frat boys they were emulating).

Yeah, I would swear there was an earlier round of Internet Cargo Shorts Hate about 6-8 years ago, and that one appeared (as far as I could tell, that is) to be driven by the fact that for a lot of young women cargo shorts became indelibly associated with frat/jock jerks. So kind of a parallel with fedoras - a specific article of clothing is so connected with a type of guy that treats women badly that the article of clothing itself picks up negative connotations.

This current round of cargo shorts hate, however (following the various links in the bit Johnny Wallflower linked above), seems to be the wives of said 00s-college dudes (maybe d-bags, maybe not) feeling that baggy cargo shorts are too juvenile for 30-something adult men, and since the wives are responsible on a variety of levels for how their husbands look, having their husbands wander around out in public in cargo shorts reflects badly on them. Which is opening up a whole can of worms about gender stereotypes and internalized sexism that the people hating on cargo shorts seem oblivious to.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:09 AM on August 10, 2016


I would have hoped that White Collar would have taught people the right way to use a hat.

I never wear suits but if I did, I would just straight up copy Neal Caffrey's wardrobe.

Also I will wear cargo shorts/pants until the day I die. I need the bloody space for my keyring, wallet, smartphone that is practically a mini-tablet, multi-tool or swiss army knife one of which I always have with me and whatever else I am carrying around on any given day. Fashion be damned, baggy clothes are comfortable in the heat and lots of pockets are always useful.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 9:37 AM on August 10, 2016 [1 favorite]


TELL it, brother!
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:17 AM on August 10, 2016


This current round of cargo shorts hate,

Ah, I didn't realize the first round had stopped. EC, that's why I was surprised you were surprised! (But I agree that it's the douchebro association some people have that is the root of the hate.) Anyway, still pro cargo shorts for men and flip-flops for all.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:30 AM on August 10, 2016


Hey, you guys with the cargo shorts, may I suggest a purse or a fanny pack? They have all the hands-free carrying benefits of pockets, but you don't have to switch your stuff out every time you change pants, you can take set them down while you're at home or somewhere you don't need to carry things, they zip up securely so nothing ever falls out, you don't have all your stuff rubbing up against your legs and pelvis and wearing your clothing out, and you can just keep everything you need to have with you in one consistent place, so you don't need to memorize different pocket configurations. And then, you've got one fewer criterion to consider when pants shopping, which will allow you many more practical options for durable, practical pants to meet your utilitarian needs.

If you really are only interested in practical, utilitarian solutions and don't care about fashion or image at all, a hands free bag of some sort seems like the best choice for you.

Or do you actually care about fashion?

(Disclaimer: I haven't personally developed any negative associations with cargo shorts. I'm probably a little old for it or something.)
posted by ernielundquist at 11:03 AM on August 10, 2016


pro cargo shorts for men and flip-flops for all

Well, you're half-right. You can keep your grungy noisy toe-jam-displaying footwear on the left coast where it belongs!
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:20 AM on August 10, 2016


Toe jam? How are you going to see my toe jam through my socks?
posted by RobotHero at 11:43 AM on August 10, 2016 [3 favorites]


Toe jam? How are you going to see my toe jam through my socks?

And that's where I turn and try to steer the conversation away, pretending I didn't hear that.
posted by bongo_x at 12:33 PM on August 10, 2016 [2 favorites]


ToeJam didn't wear flip-flops, he wore tennis shoes. Same as Earl.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 3:02 PM on August 10, 2016


Without socks.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 3:03 PM on August 10, 2016




I thought flip-flops were for those Dockers 5-pocket shorts guys? I pair my cargo shorts with soccer sandals, which accommodate socks much better than tweeners.
posted by carsonb at 10:13 PM on August 10, 2016


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