Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand / A mighty woman
August 3, 2016 11:01 AM   Subscribe

The 2016 US general election is fully underway now. In 96 days, Americans will go to the polls. Current opinion polls show a significant bump for Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton coming out of the major party conventions, and according to most polling aggregators she is currently on track to win the election.

Khizr and Ghazala Khan, parents of an American soldier who was killed in Iraq, continued to condemn Republican nominee Donald Trump in a back-and-forth that's dominated coverage since the Khans spoke at the Democratic National Convention last week.

Donald Trump himself warned that "[if] the election is rigged, [he] would not be surprised" as the international press pondered the meaning and future of democratic legitimacy in the US.

President Obama declared Donald Trump to be unfit for the Presidency, and questioned why GOP leaders did not withdraw their personal support from their nominee. Meanwhile, Republicans struggled to navigate the increasing tension between their nominee and many of their elected officials and party leaders.

Please be kind to one another, and to the mods.
posted by tivalasvegas (3057 comments total) 103 users marked this as a favorite
 
Election 2016: The Horseshoe Crab of FPPs
posted by wabbittwax at 11:02 AM on August 3, 2016 [23 favorites]


So, this article from The American Conservative is well worth a read:

Trump: Tribune of Poor White People

It's an interview with J.D. Vance, author of the book Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and a Culture in Crisis (which I haven't read, but just ordered). It's an inquiry into why, exactly, the white working class would vote for Trump. I found it illuminating.

Note that, although the white working class certainly comprises part of Trump's base, the full story is more complicated:

The Mythology of Trump's 'Working Class' Support
posted by escape from the potato planet at 11:03 AM on August 3, 2016 [12 favorites]


Shouldn't the garbagefire tag be the dumpsterfire tag?
posted by charred husk at 11:03 AM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


I'm still reading about efforts within the Trump campaign and the the GOP to get Donald to do a "hard reset" and get back "on message".

Guys. You still don't get it, do you? Donald has no message to get on. The entirety of his campaign is about getting eyeballs on himself, about controlling and dominating the media and the public's attention. Saying sane, reasonable things does not accomplish that. Saying outrageous, offensive, erratic things does.

He's an addict, and attention is his drug, and he's been on an epic bender for months. He's not going to stop.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 11:05 AM on August 3, 2016 [153 favorites]


Shouldn't the garbagefire tag be the dumpsterfire tag?

This current situation calls for both, really.
posted by mochapickle at 11:05 AM on August 3, 2016 [12 favorites]


Yay new post! You guys are getting me through this election, seriously.
posted by corb at 11:05 AM on August 3, 2016 [72 favorites]


My addiction to these threads is troubling
posted by R.F.Simpson at 11:06 AM on August 3, 2016 [148 favorites]


Clusterdumpster
posted by Artw at 11:07 AM on August 3, 2016 [12 favorites]


They haven't slept in a week
Things were bleak, but we're awake
You never seen a moderator
More in need of a break
Longing for November
Missing my life
That’s when Reince's intervention cut Trump like a knife.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:07 AM on August 3, 2016 [34 favorites]


I love this title. Despite her diminutive size, I do think HRC is a mighty woman.
posted by bearwife at 11:07 AM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


I should point out that there's a separate post currently on the front page about the Vance interview: http://www.metafilter.com/161377/Americans-call-themwhite-trash-I-call-them-friends-and-family. Good discussion, as always.
posted by tippiedog at 11:07 AM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


OK, but seriously, would any hypothetical person that Trump was replaced by on the Republican party ticket just replace him on the ballots in all states automatically?
posted by Sophie1 at 11:08 AM on August 3, 2016


I don't know what is wrong with me, but I cannot stop reading these threads. I will have like 100 comments to catch up on in the previous thread.

Help
posted by rtha at 11:08 AM on August 3, 2016 [42 favorites]


I was watching 30 Rock the other night and heard Kenneth Parcells drop a "clusterwhoops."

"Trumpsterwhoops?"

I don't know, nothing is real anymore.
posted by Tevin at 11:09 AM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


Orange crack.
posted by Don Pepino at 11:09 AM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


The worst part of This Week In Trump (TWIT) is how the Republican Party is going along with him in casting the legitimacy of the political and electoral systems in doubt.

It's not surprising by any means: birtherism against Obama and the Clinton impeachment proceedings were nothing more than the right wing of the USA refusing to accept the rightful rule of a different party and viewpoint. Trump is merely more explicit and blunt in how he puts it.

But seriously, it's playing with fire. Reince Preibus said the RNC will back Trump's protest over the debates, even though they must KNOW he's just being a shitty whiny baby and trying to duck out of it. Sean Hannity is sending out Twitter q's about the November outcome being rigged.

Authority to govern only comes from the consent of the governed. I'm afraid of what could happen after 45% of the governed, the most aggrieved reactionary element of the governed, thinks they have grounds to withdraw that consent.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 11:09 AM on August 3, 2016 [37 favorites]


Is it wrong to hope Ryan loses in the primary?
posted by drezdn at 11:09 AM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


This is not fine (I am fine with this)

(Just in case anyone missed it. Who needs a dumpsterfire when you've got a burning dog?)

Never pet a burning dog!
posted by chavenet at 11:10 AM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


I love this title. Despite her diminutive size, I do think HRC is a mighty woman.

I brought this up in an earlier thread: nobody really seems to know how tall HRC is.
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:10 AM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


Well, it DOES seem like the logjam of toe-the-line Republican support for Il Douche has cracked in the last 48 hours and a number of prominent mainstream and moderate Republicans have publicly declared their support for HRC. Hopefully more will come forward.

Jesus Christ, what a train wreck (and what an asshole).
posted by mosk at 11:10 AM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]




Also, can we cut down the chat/snark filter so that this thread lasts a little longer!!?? Please!
posted by Sophie1 at 11:11 AM on August 3, 2016 [24 favorites]


prize bull octorok: "nobody really seems to know how tall HRC is."

Why should anyone care?
posted by Mitheral at 11:11 AM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


Well, it DOES seem like the logjam of toe-the-line Republican support for Il Douche has cracked in the last 48 hours and a number of prominent mainstream and moderate Republicans have publicly declared their support for HRC. Hopefully more will come forward.


the real test will be when GOP pols who are up for re-election start jumping ship
posted by murphy slaw at 11:11 AM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


drezdn: Is it wrong to hope Ryan loses in the primary?

Depends. Who is he up against?
posted by SansPoint at 11:11 AM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Guys. You still don't get it, do you? Donald has no message to get on. The entirety of his campaign is about getting eyeballs on himself, about controlling and dominating the media and the public's attention. Saying sane, reasonable things does not accomplish that. Saying outrageous, offensive, erratic things does.

Exactly. If he got back on message, he'd have to explain how he wants to both cut and raise taxes or how he plans to make good on his promise to literally end all crime. He'd have to explain how his budget plans wouldn't create a massive deficit or whether he wants to lower the minimum wage. He'd have to explain how he plans to round up and deport 11 million people and what he'd do with their US citizen family members, including children.

If those were the questions facing you if you got back on message, I bet you'd be inventing a conspiracy of fire marshals against you too.
posted by zachlipton at 11:12 AM on August 3, 2016 [15 favorites]


I don't know what is wrong with me, but I cannot stop reading these threads. I will have like 100 comments to catch up on in the previous thread.

In the past year or so, I've taken up the habit of actually reading a newspaper every morning (well, on Kindle, but still). It's a better way to ease into the day than the stream of email and social media I'd been jumping into first thing in the morning. And I learn more about what's going on in the world than I get from my Facebook/Metafilter bubble.

But the past few days, it's been like, "Man, this stuff is ancient. Where's that big Metafilter Trump thread?"
posted by roll truck roll at 11:12 AM on August 3, 2016 [24 favorites]


Coming soon: Daniel 2:12.
For this cause the king was angry and very furious, and commanded to destroy all the wise men of Babylon.
then, presumably, something from Revelation
posted by Spathe Cadet at 11:12 AM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


My favorite Trump thing this week is how he sneeringly kicked a baby out of his rally (after sarcastically pretending that "it" (the baby was "it") didn't bother him).

I mean, the whole politicians kissing babies cliche is gross and fake (though Barack Obama interacting with toddlers is the best, obviously), and it's kind of refreshing to see a politician just flat out hate on babies as the loud and angry life disruptors that they are. But still. Such a dick.
posted by sparklemotion at 11:12 AM on August 3, 2016 [29 favorites]


Sophie1, I don't think there's really a mechanism for replacing Trump on the ballot, altough it's a party bylaws thing rather than a real laws thing so I guess they could make a way if they wanted to badly enough.

In any case, nobody's calling for that. Obama's just calling on Republicans to withdraw their support and hang him out to dry, not to actually remove him. IAnd it's just a rhetorical move; obviously they won't want to be seen as abandoning their party's candidate under orders from the other party's President.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:12 AM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]



Shouldn't the garbagefire tag be the dumpsterfire tag?

This current situation calls for both, really.


The garbage can is in the dumpster, and the dumpster is in a truck headed for the docks to offload onto a barge that will head out into the middle of the Atlantic where it will be scuttled by an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer, and every goddamn one of 'em is on fire.
posted by logicpunk at 11:12 AM on August 3, 2016 [21 favorites]


Also, can we cut down the chat/snark filter so that this thread lasts a little longer!!?? Please!

Threads are a renewable resource; our sanity is not. Snark saves.
posted by Bookhouse at 11:13 AM on August 3, 2016 [66 favorites]


We call him Il Douche, and Drumpf, and Tiny-Hands Don, and quite a variety of epithets, but are we just making fun of a sick man? (The article is a few months old, but I certainly haven't seen any evidence since that would counter it.)
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:14 AM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


I assume this got posted or discussed in one of the other threads, but it is worth mentioning this here as well: Meg Whitman, Calling Donald Trump a ‘Demagogue,’ Will Support Hillary Clinton for President (NYT)
posted by mosk at 11:14 AM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


I guess it was probably easy to miss amid the reeling caused by the GOP capsizing, but the obvious messaging attempt for today was supposed to be the four million in cash we just sent to Iran. trump jumped on it like a raccoon on a soiled diaper. The only problem is that this is old, old news that is being dumped into the public eye by the WSJ in order to try and distract from trump's flailing. This is a repayment of a loan that was in the as-written Iran deal, not a new story. It was delivered in cash, because we do not have bank ties with the Iranian government, and that was the only way to deliver the money.
posted by codacorolla at 11:15 AM on August 3, 2016 [14 favorites]


The garbage can is in the dumpster, and the dumpster is in a truck headed for the docks to offload onto a barge that will head out into the middle of the Atlantic where it will be scuttled by an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer, and every goddamn one of 'em is on fire.

"...and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!'... and I'll whisper 'no.'"
posted by entropicamericana at 11:15 AM on August 3, 2016 [14 favorites]


Article explaining the RNC bylaws regarding replacing a candidate.
posted by kimdog at 11:16 AM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Apparently HRC is 5'6" and weighs about 132. Or so says my top google hit.
posted by bearwife at 11:16 AM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


We call him Il Douche, and Drumpf, and Tiny-Hands Don, and quite a variety of epithets, but are we just making fun of a sick man?

Feeling sympathy for an ill person or addict (and it is doubtful Trump is either in any definable sense) while they're merrily burning down my house is something I can't do and don't feel bad about not being able to do.
posted by winna at 11:16 AM on August 3, 2016 [24 favorites]


posted by escape from the potato planet Donald has no message to get on. The entirety of his campaign is about getting eyeballs on himself, about controlling and dominating the media and the public's attention. Saying sane, reasonable things does not accomplish that. Saying outrageous, offensive, erratic things does.

That's Trump's message: "Look at me, I'm on TV!"
posted by mattdidthat at 11:17 AM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


so mike pence just endorsed paul ryan, while his running mate refuses to do so

not enough popcorn in the world
posted by murphy slaw at 11:17 AM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


The pop culture podcast OVERINVESTED talked about the US election as if it was a TV show "I think it's cluttered cause this is the last season and they're using all thier ideas at once"
posted by The Whelk at 11:17 AM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


She's taller than James Madison, so she's tall enough.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 11:17 AM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


We call him Il Douche, and Drumpf, and Tiny-Hands Don, and quite a variety of epithets, but are we just making fun of a sick man?

We can't know whether or not he's sick.

We know with certainty that he's sickening. The mockery is deserved.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:17 AM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


I've enjoyed 5 days of really great post-DNC *airquote* celebrating *airquote* with my wife in Portland and I don't think I could be happier with how everything has developed since last week.

Trump is even more of a clusterfuck than I imagined.
posted by Annika Cicada at 11:18 AM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


Trumpsterfire, obvs.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:18 AM on August 3, 2016 [26 favorites]


Aaaah, I was just thinking this morning how a new election thread would be just the thing. I'm glad I'm not the only one addicted to these stupid threads. I promised myself I wouldn't obsess over this election (I have a history of issues with this) but I'm home on parental leave and it's so easy to focus on American democracy driving itself off a cliff
posted by town of cats at 11:18 AM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


I binged on the convention threads, and figured I could take the 2-week hit to my productivity, but this is seriously starting to look like I won't get anything done for the next 96 days at least.
posted by gofargogo at 11:20 AM on August 3, 2016 [44 favorites]


I brought this up in an earlier thread: nobody really seems to know how tall HRC is.

And as I said at that time, Hillary Rodham Clinton is a shameless centrist panderer whose height changes to reflect the average height of her audience or interlocutor.

how young we were, then
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:21 AM on August 3, 2016 [22 favorites]


Wouldn't it be fantastic if Trump opted out of the debates and, instead of cancelling them, just went ahead and had the debate without even changing the format?

So HRC goes up on stage and answers questions like normal in her allotted time. The camera then switches to the other, empty, podium and just sits there in silence for Trump's allotted time. Then they move on to the next question.

I really want HRC to take him to school at the debates but if he doesn't show up at the debates, that would be the next best thing.
posted by VTX at 11:22 AM on August 3, 2016 [32 favorites]


Il Douche

Thank you for this.
posted by Sauce Trough at 11:22 AM on August 3, 2016 [30 favorites]


This Joke Was Off-limits at Donald Trump’s Comedy Central Roast

Spoiler: Jokes about him not being as wealthy as he claims were not allowed. He was OK with incest jokes though
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:23 AM on August 3, 2016 [29 favorites]


but are we just making fun of a sick man?

You know what, I don't really care at this point if we're making fun of a sick man. The possibility that this guy could win the White House, or that Julian Fucking Assange could help him win the White House, is a global emergency. If we have to mock him into impotence, I don't see any problem with that. People are smart enough to differentiate between someone who's literally threatening the planet, on the one hand, and their depressed relative, on the other. This really isn't the circumstance to be lecturing people about being sensitive to the mentally ill.
posted by O Sock My Sock at 11:24 AM on August 3, 2016 [123 favorites]


...I binged on the convention threads, and figured I could take the 2-week hit to my productivity

For real y'all I love ya bunches but I got other shit to DO!
posted by Annika Cicada at 11:24 AM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


Voices From Donald Trump’s Rallies, Uncensored [cw: what the title says]
posted by zombieflanders at 11:24 AM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


Interesting point, amidst 538's "Is Donald Trump Blowing It?" chat:
harry: [...]I’d argue that perhaps the most interesting speech of the convention was Michael Bloomberg’s. He basically said Trump was unfit for office — it was essentially the speech’s only argument against Trump. It mostly wasn’t about policy.

[...]

nate: Right, and in general, the Democrats moved rhetorically to the center at their convention, even though the platform was actually pretty far left. So to some extent, they’re trying to have their cake and eat it too.
posted by psoas at 11:25 AM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


drezdn: Is it wrong to hope Ryan loses in the primary?

Depends. Who is he up against?


It doesn't matter who is running against him, it would be great if he lost. Ryan is dangerous precisely because, despite his radical right agenda, people, in the media, at least, take him seriously. They cover him as a "policy wonk" rather than as an ideologue. He's the GOPer I'm most concerned about mounting a credible run for President out of the House. It would be great on all fronts if he were gone, just like it was great when Cantor was defeated. Bratt, or whatever his name is, is arguably worse than Cantor, but he doesn't have any of Cantor's previous juice.
posted by OmieWise at 11:25 AM on August 3, 2016 [27 favorites]


The worst part of This Week In Trump (TWIT) is how the Republican Party is going along with him in casting the legitimacy of the political and electoral systems in doubt.

Of course he has to start in with the "system is rigged" stuff; he's going to lose and he knows it. And he doesn't know it because the numbers say it, and he doesn't know it because Nate Silver told him, and he doesn't know it because he's listening to people from the Republican party... he knows it because he knows in his heart that he's a loser. All of his years of almost parodical self-aggrandizement, all of his wild lashing out, all of his behavior since forever all makes sense once you realize that Donald Trump is afraid that Donald Trump is worthless and meaningless.

And he's not that wrong. Really, think about it: Donald Trump came into this world with one of the biggest head starts a person can have, and he's lived his entire life on easy mode. And what does he have to show for it? Yeah, he's got money, but not due to anything he did, and in any case that will all be meaningless when he dies. What's his legacy? How has he changed the world? Say what you will about, for example, Bill Gates being a heartless shark during his coming-up-in-business days, but the guy was doing something that ended up having an effect on the world. If history remembers Donald Trump at all, it will remember him as a clown, and not even a good clown because there's not a single person anywhere who can honestly say that Donald Trump made them happier. Even the people he whips into a frenzy are only getting negative emotions from him.

After he loses the election he'll crow and make a big noise about how he never had a chance but boy he sure showed the establishment who's boss, and a lot of sycophants will be there to pat him on the back, but inside he'll know that he lost because he's a loser, and if he has even a little bit of self-awareness he'll know that he's only so because that's what he's made of himself.
posted by IAmUnaware at 11:25 AM on August 3, 2016 [73 favorites]


It does definitely look like someone else has Trump's phone today. No tweets in hours.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:26 AM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


> I'm glad I'm not the only one addicted to these stupid threads.

The Trumpsterfire has plenty of parallels to the Rob Ford saga up here in Toronto, and this is one of them; at its heights/depths, it was all anyone here was talking about. I would imagine it cost the city billions in lost productivity. Every day there was something new, often multiple somethings, and you really couldn't fully discount any rumour you heard because the way things were going who the fuck knew what was real and what could happen? I was obsessed; if I'd had two laptops I would have had sixteen tabs open on each one, furiously tapping away on both.

In retrospect it seems like an off-Broadway rehearsal run before hitting the bright lights.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:26 AM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


I should also add that I don't think it diminishes the dignity of anyone with mental illness to take the position that someone who's actually showing signs of dementia or psychosis isn't fit to sit in the Oval Office.
posted by O Sock My Sock at 11:27 AM on August 3, 2016 [36 favorites]


pence and trump appear to be running two different campaigns
Pence to Meet With McCain, Who Trump Refuses to Endorse
posted by murphy slaw at 11:27 AM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Ryan's opposition in the primary is an unhinged tea-partier type.
posted by codacorolla at 11:27 AM on August 3, 2016


IAmUnaware: Now I want to put a plaque on Trump Tower: "My name is Trump, Douche of Douches. Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair."
posted by SansPoint at 11:28 AM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


I like the articles suggesting that Trump may be suffering from dementia, such as this one: "...At times it can be very hard to distinguish between extreme right-wing politics and symptoms of dementia."
posted by Melismata at 11:28 AM on August 3, 2016 [21 favorites]


Guys; ixnay on the edictionspray! You'll jinx us for sure!
posted by TedW at 11:29 AM on August 3, 2016


I don't think it has been linked to from here, but this is the MeTa post about the election threads.

I think it is definitely worth thinking about before you hit "Post Comment."
posted by Tevin at 11:29 AM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


I have to assume that if Trump had an actual, verifiable, actually-not-mentally-competent breakdown (or even got arrested), that Pence could take over the ticket and name a new VP? Anyone who voted Trump/Pence would actually be voting Pence/Other Guy?

I mean, I don't know, but I assume every party has at least an "in case candidate is hit by bus" plan.

It would have to be an undeniable break with reality type thing, though, that happened in public with too many witnesses to hush up.
posted by emjaybee at 11:29 AM on August 3, 2016


Trump is, in all seriousness, throwing the election.

He has no desire to be President; it's possibly the toughest job in the country (if not on Earth) and subjects the office-holder to all sort of restrictions, investigations, and examinations that are completely incompatible with Trump's priorities. (And have you seen how little it pays?)

He wants to lose, but lose his way, which is to be able to claim that he's the real winner. That's why you see attacks on Gold Star families combined with a preemptive "it's going to be a rigged election" excuse-making campaign.
posted by Zonker at 11:29 AM on August 3, 2016 [37 favorites]


Guys! Guys! Don't you realize that Trump never asked about nuclear weapons. He wouldn't do something like that!
Meanwhile, even W apparently just criticized him at a fundraiser?

The clown show continues.
posted by rp at 11:31 AM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Trump is, in all seriousness, throwing the election.

I honestly think this is giving him way, way more credit for rational thought than he deserves.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:31 AM on August 3, 2016 [56 favorites]


I am become Il Douche, the destroyer of campaigns.
posted by diogenes at 11:31 AM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


I honestly think this is giving him way, way more credit for rational thought than he deserves.

Could be, but as a working hypothesis it fits the data pretty well, I think.
posted by Zonker at 11:32 AM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


I have gone back and forth on whether Trump really wants to be president and whether he's blowing it on purpose since, I dunno, when did the primaries start? Forty years ago?

One thing I know for sure: when this is over, if he loses, he will certainly affirm that I was right all along and he never really intended to win, if he wanted to win he would have won so big, he was just running to make a point and in that he was tremendously successful, blah blah fuckity blah.
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:32 AM on August 3, 2016


Anyone who voted Trump/Pence would actually be voting Pence/Other Guy?

Pence/Shkreli 2016!
posted by ejs at 11:33 AM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


Email from the Clinton campaign:

It is only Wednesday, and already Trump has had a hell of a week. I want to make sure you know exactly what kind of chaos he’s causing this time -- so take a look at the rundown below.

Don’t need to read the list to know that Trump has been up to no good? Chip in $84 to become a campaign Partner and make sure he doesn’t get anywhere near the White House:

Trump has straight-up called Hillary Clinton “the devil.”
In an interview, Trump claimed that Putin would not invade Ukraine -- something Putin has already done. The explanation Trump’s co-chairman offered for his mixup is that Trump had been “thinking about something else.”
Trump and his son Eric claimed that Ivanka Trump would never “allow herself” to be sexually harassed on the job because she's "strong" -- but if she were, the solution would simply be for her to “find another career or another company.”
Trump adviser Al Baldasaro accused Khizr Khan of being connected to the Muslim Brotherhood, and his deceased son and Purple Heart recipient, U.S. Captain Khan, of being a radical jihadist. Just over two weeks ago, Baldasaro called for Hillary to be “shot for treason” -- yet wasn’t removed from the campaign.
Trump kicked a baby out of a rally. Seriously.
And in response to the fallout from this weekend, Trump is taking the ultimate coward’s route: He’s already claiming that the debate schedule and the election will be rigged, and that a Hillary win would be illegitimate.

[name], we have to stop him. This can’t be our new normal. We can’t get used to it. We can’t let him define the standards of what a political candidate (or a person!) can or can’t say. Don’t let him continue from the Oval Office. Donate now:
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:34 AM on August 3, 2016 [23 favorites]


prize bull octorok: nobody really seems to know how tall HRC is.

Mitheral: Why should anyone care?

Folk wisdom about the tallest person winning.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:34 AM on August 3, 2016


Have we ever had an actually crazy president? We've had plenty whose bulbs don't shine too brightly, but how about ones that actually could pose a problem? I'm thinking of the article somewhere that talked about how the Secret Service gave both candidates some security briefings, but "used discretion" about them, and Trump apparently babbled more than he should have anyway. (Can't find the link, argh.) How does that work when the leader is a nutcase? Has this ever happened before?
posted by Melismata at 11:34 AM on August 3, 2016


so, um, i never played WOW because i recognized myself as having the kind of brain that is incredibly susceptible to that kind of skinner box
but
right now there is the slightest temptation to sign up for an account and go into an orc-slaying fugue until election day.
:(
posted by murphy slaw at 11:34 AM on August 3, 2016 [17 favorites]


I tried to bait my (very professional) shrink into commenting on Trump. His inner turmoil of wanting/not wanting to answer was clearly visible; the most he would spill was "he's very young" and "he's very insecure".
posted by Rumple at 11:34 AM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


Could be, but as a working hypothesis it fits the data pretty well, I think.

The model of Trump's behavior that fits the data best is that he literally lacks the capacity to reflect on the possible ramifications of the things that he says in any way whatsoever.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:35 AM on August 3, 2016 [13 favorites]


Yeah, you can pencil me in as being fine with Ryan getting booted in his primary. If he was actually acting as an effective speaker and standing up to the Freedom Caucus bozos it would be one thing, but he's not. If he was willing to drop the Hastert Child Molester Rule and bring things to the floor without majority republican support because they're necessary for the functioning of government, sure, I'd say it's important to keep him.

But he's just been an empty suit in the Speaker role and unable to control his caucus. So who needs him? The House as it is doesn't function and Ryan's doing nothing to change that. If we were looking at the rest of the tea party clowns getting tossed this cycle then I might be concerned about bringing a new one in. But they don't show any sign of changing quantity in a meaningful way. So if they're going to be there and Ryan as Speaker won't go around them, what difference does one more make? Jettison him and his false appearance of reasonable and his dangerous budgets.

tl;dr- if the House is going to be a nonfunctional entity then we may as well have people in it who look like the nutters they are rather than an ineffectual Speaker who is a granny-starver in reasonable clothing.
posted by phearlez at 11:35 AM on August 3, 2016 [18 favorites]




I tried to bait my (very professional) shrink into commenting on Drumpf. His inner turmoil of wanting/not wanting to answer was clearly visible; the most he would spill was "he's very young" and "he's very insecure"

He's very young? Wha?
posted by O Sock My Sock at 11:36 AM on August 3, 2016 [12 favorites]


Have we ever had an actually crazy president?

some people think that Reagan was visibly suffering from Alzheimer's Disease for some of his second term
posted by murphy slaw at 11:36 AM on August 3, 2016 [19 favorites]


Thanks for posting this, tivalasvegas.

Hillary Clinton’s bid draws legions of female donors. Clinton has received a larger proportion of donations from women than any other presidential nominee in recent history. Clinton campaign says their internal figures through the end of June show 65% of donations were from women. That includes small donations not reported to the FEC. 70% of donors who contribute multiple times are also women.

Nearly 31% of donations to Trump are by women.
posted by zarq at 11:36 AM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


Zonker: Trump is, in all seriousness, throwing the election.

showbiz_liz: I honestly think this is giving him way, way more credit for rational thought than he deserves.

WaPo's (wonderfully annotated!!) interview with Trump makes me skeptical about his ability to hold onto a thread of thought while there's a TV in the room.

TRUMP: [Trump watches himself on TV] Lot of energy. We got a lot of energy.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:36 AM on August 3, 2016 [12 favorites]


Is it wrong to hope Ryan loses in the primary?

Ryan's opposition in the primary is an unhinged tea-partier type.

I was hoping Ryan would lose in the primary, until I thought about his opponent - endorsed by Palin and at least talked about positively by Trump - winning. I think that Ryan winning would show that Trump isn't as powerful as he wants to be.

I am finding myself in the very uncomfortable position of hoping Ryan wins.
posted by still_wears_a_hat at 11:37 AM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


ZOMG I've been trying to get my shrink to diagnose Trump for weeks.
posted by angrycat at 11:38 AM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


I have to assume that if Trump had an actual, verifiable, actually-not-mentally-competent breakdown (or even got arrested), that Pence could take over the ticket and name a new VP? Anyone who voted Trump/Pence would actually be voting Pence/Other Guy?

Seeing as how McGovern was slaughtered on Election Day in no small part because of Thomas Eagleton's past depression and treatment, I would be surprised if very many people would be voting Trump/Pence or Pence/Other Guy at all.

That said, there's gotta be a backup plan, right? Right..?
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:38 AM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


the most he would spill was "he's very young"

Hahaha he's 70

Oh your poor shrink
posted by schadenfrau at 11:38 AM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


Artw: Rambling Clint Eastward sort of condemns Trump but thinks he "says what's on everyone's minds", complains about politically correct "pussy generation".

Let's refer to Clint Eastwood (Eastward? :)) as Clint the Chair-Debater in political discussions.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:39 AM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


I apologize for this oversight, probably caused by political correctness on my part.
posted by Artw at 11:40 AM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Meanwhile, in Canada: Justin Trudeau Emerged Shirtless From A Cave Because Of Course He Did

Bonus: check out the URL.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:40 AM on August 3, 2016 [20 favorites]


Have we ever had an actually crazy president?

I think you could make a strong case that Andrew Jackson was, at best, unstable.
posted by ryanshepard at 11:40 AM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


WaPo's (wonderfully annotated!!) interview with Trump makes me skeptical about his ability to hold onto a thread of thought while there's a TV in the room.

I saw this posted a few places and have avoided reading it up until now, but oh my GOD you guys you have GOT to
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:41 AM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


I've heard all sorts of conspiracy theories about Trump's presidential bid, of varying plausibility. For example, the notion that it's a false-flag operation to help Clinton win (I wondered myself, early on, but it doesn't stand up to examination). Or the notion that he's deliberately throwing the election (this is within the realm of possibility, but is far from a given).

At the end of the day, I think his campaign is exactly what it looks like: an impulsive narcissist, addicted to power and attention, possibly suffering from drug addiction or dementia, speaking and acting without a trace of forethought or reflection.

Does he actually want to win, or not? The very question presumes that Trump is even thinking that far ahead. And I'm skeptical that he does. As long as he's getting a hit of attention, demonstrating his power by bullying someone, or being validated by being at the center of the conversation, I don't think tomorrow even enters his brain.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 11:41 AM on August 3, 2016 [21 favorites]




murphy slaw: so, um, i never played WOW because i recognized myself as having the kind of brain that is incredibly susceptible to that kind of skinner box
but
right now there is the slightest temptation to sign up for an account and go into an orc-slaying fugue until election day.
:(


Make sure to give someone in your area your phone number, and maybe a key to your place, so they can check in with you once every few days. Coping techniques can be helpful, but don't fall too far into the fugue state that you don't come back.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:41 AM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


HRC has scaled back her Colorado ad buy. Apparently she leads by 8 points.
posted by bearwife at 11:42 AM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Have we ever had an actually crazy president?
Andrew Jackson?

Ronald Reagan?
posted by davros42 at 11:42 AM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


zarq: Raw Story: Republicans think Trump might quit — so they’re scrambling to find a replacement: ABC News

I'm still skeptical about this possibility, but Palin bailed on her governorship, so why not Trump when he starts getting uncomfortable with all this personal scrutiny. Better than tell the world he's not really a billionaire, right?
posted by filthy light thief at 11:44 AM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Meanwhile, in Canada: Justin Trudeau Emerged Shirtless From A Cave Because Of Course He Did

damn! this wins the whole farking intarwebs like a boss!!!
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 11:44 AM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


murphy slaw, no joke, I think fatigue about negative/scary news in the past few months is a big reason why Pokemon Go got so popular so fast. You can't watch TV or read election news while you're playing it, and if you're doing it right you get enough exercise that you just fall dead asleep when you get home.
posted by town of cats at 11:45 AM on August 3, 2016 [25 favorites]


Popping in from the sidelines with this commentary from a little while back, turns out Scott Adams is still as horrible as he was when he visited us here. Cue my surprised face.
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:45 AM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


So my dad is currently in treatment for throat cancer and had a feeding tube put in last week. Then my mom (his primary caregiver; the closest family member is me, four-and-a-half hours away) broker her arm and will be having surgery on Friday. My family and I were getting ready to leave for a road trip; that was canceled and I'm here with my parents providing care and trying to cobble together care for them because Tennessee doesn't have great elder care that is covered by insurance, and Medicare doesn't provide much.

All that background to say I've been freaked out about th election and I haven't really been paying attention to the news but I've been seein Trump yard signs and bumper stickers here in Tennessee and I've been scared. And I've been super depressed and stressed out about my parents (and my two teens at home).

I needed this thread. So much.
posted by cooker girl at 11:45 AM on August 3, 2016 [117 favorites]




hugs cooker girl
posted by angrycat at 11:47 AM on August 3, 2016 [17 favorites]




The part that really gets me is that a lot of prominent Republicans are denouncing the batshit crazy things Trump is saying, but no one of any import has pulled their endorsement. At some point, this is going to become a major liability. If McCain gets primaried in Arizona, and he's pitted against a moderate conservative, it's going to be really, really hard for him to explain why he still vouched for this man after it was clear (to him! John McCain!) he wasn't playing with a full deck.
posted by Mayor West at 11:47 AM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


zarq: Raw Story: Republicans think Trump might quit — so they’re scrambling to find a replacement: ABC News

This is the reason I asked the question above, if the Republican replacement candidate would just appear on the ballots in all 50 states or did something additional have to happen in order for this to occur?

(and in preview, the link that emjaybee provided above answers all of my questions.)
posted by Sophie1 at 11:48 AM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


This election is effecting my productivity, it's hard to write light historic comedy when you think the world is ending
posted by The Whelk at 11:48 AM on August 3, 2016 [34 favorites]


This is from that WaPo transcript. I have bolded the times when Trump got distracted by the TV and changed the subject in this very brief exchange:

RUCKER: Do you want to work with [Paul Ryan]? Do you think you can work with him if elected?
TRUMP: Oh, I think so.
RUCKER: Even though on a couple of these instances he’s shone some daylight with you, like over the Khan —
[crosstalk]
TRUMP: [Trump watches himself on TV] Lot of energy. We got a lot of energy. She certainly doesn’t look presidential to me, Hillary. I don’t think you get to look less presidential actually than Hillary.
RUCKER: Let’s go back just a little bit to Pence. I’d love you to tell me what your relationship’s like.
TRUMP: I think it’s phenomenal.
RUCKER: How do you guys communicate during the day?
TRUMP: Beyond good. Beyond good.
RUCKER: Do you talk each day?
TRUMP: Oh, there look, can you believe that? Something, right?
RUCKER: Do you think he really gave you the Purple Heart?
TRUMP: Yeah, he did. He gave me the Purple Heart.
RUCKER: I can’t believe that.
TRUMP: Amazing.
[crosstalk]
RUCKER: Did you think about not taking it? Like insisting that he keep it himself?
TRUMP: I did. I said you can’t give me this. He said, “Mr. Trump you mean so much to me and my family.” You know we’re doing very well with the veterans. I know you guys do not like to say that.
RUCKER: Well, half the people in your rallies are veterans.
TRUMP: [Looks at the television again] Look at this. It’s all Trump all day long. That’s why their ratings are through the roof. I’d hate to say, Philip, if I wasn’t running, the television networks would be doing less than half the business.
RUCKER: You think so?
TRUMP: In fact the Hillary convention which did very well but not nearly as well as mine, in all fairness, would’ve gotten one-third the ratings they got if I weren’t.
TRUMP: You want me to give you an exact quote on the Paul Ryan? You were asking.
RUCKER: Yeah, please do.

posted by showbiz_liz at 11:48 AM on August 3, 2016 [18 favorites]


Take care of yourself, cooker girl.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 11:48 AM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


Also I was really hoping it would grow legs of its own, but I think we can do better than Il Douche. The smart money is on...

Orange Julius Caesar.
posted by Mayor West at 11:49 AM on August 3, 2016 [28 favorites]


“I have to say the frustration is especially deep because they believe that Hillary Clinton looks vulnerable, exactly as (ABC News political analyst) Matthew (Dowd) said, and had a bad few days, the DNC has gone through a whole shake-up,” Karl said. “She misstated what that director said about her emails."

LITERALLY TEN MILLION TIMES WORSE THAN EVERYTHING TRUMP HAS DONE COMBINED
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:49 AM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


Voices From Donald Trump’s Rallies, Uncensored [cw: what the title says]
posted by zombieflanders at 1:24 PM on August 3


Oh my god. That NYT video. We've all been shocked before, but this is the first time my jaw dropped. The hatred and vulgarity. From people of all walks of lives. And all ages.

I've never been so convinced that this really is Facism. I used to think the rallies couldn't actually be thattt bad, but that video has chilled me to the core.
posted by andruwjones26 at 11:49 AM on August 3, 2016 [14 favorites]


“The current race is which of these two is the more unacceptable, because right now neither of them is acceptable,” Gingrich said in a Wednesday morning telephone interview. “Trump is helping her to win by proving he is more unacceptable than she is.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:49 AM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


drezdn: Is it wrong to hope Ryan loses in the primary?

Depends. Who is he up against?


For your edification and amusement
posted by klarck at 11:50 AM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Okay, some thoughts on the mental health thing that have crystalized for me over the course of these threads.

1) Of course someone's mental health is relevant to their fitness to hold the office of president, just like their physical health is. If he had a heart condition, we would also be discussing that as an issue. In any normal election year, we'd be discussing his age too. (But of course his opponent is only 2 years younger, and his age is the LEAST concerning them about him.)

2) But since Trump isn't diagnosed with anything as far as we know, there's not much we can say about how his specific condition would affect his ability to perform the duties of president. (If he did have a diagnosis and were getting treatment, he would probably perform better, actually.) Rather than speculating on a diagnosis, it makes a lot more sense to talk about the pattern of erratic behavior itself. In the end that is the real problem, regardless of the underlying cause.

3) Just as being mentally ill (diagnosed or not) shouldn't disqualify him from running for office, it also shouldn't get him a pass on the rigors of the campaign process. We should be able to criticize him without feeling bad for "making fun of a sick man." Being made fun of goes with the job. If he doesn't want to be made fun of or criticized, he shouldn't seek this role.

4) "Crazy" can be a generic term meaning "unpredictable and unusual," but if used in reference to mental illness, it's pejorative. Regardless of Trump's mental health or fitness for office, "Haha he's crazy; he might have Alzheimer's or something" is going to hurt innocent people unnecessarily. I think it's one thing to say "I think he may not be mentally healthy enough to serve as president" and other thing to say "He should be committed" or even "He shouldn't have been allowed to run." Those would have implications beyond this race and this man. A huge portion of the population (a majority I'm pretty sure, but I'm having trouble finding stats) goes through "mental illness" at some point in their life. Depression, anxiety, addiction, dementia, those four alone affect a huge, huge number of people. Just like most of us are physically ill at some point in our lives. So it's pretty stupid to stigmatize it.

Trump may or may not be mentally ill, but either way his pattern of behavior is deeply concerning with respect to his fitness to serve as president. I think we can all point to specific behaviors that are especially concerning, but I think that's really all we can reasonably say on the subject.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:50 AM on August 3, 2016 [28 favorites]


Sophie, the article I linked answers your question. The answer is "haha, no."
posted by emjaybee at 11:51 AM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


*hugs* to you, cookergirl. So sorry you're all going through this. I hope your mom's surgery goes smoothly and that she heals quickly, and also that your dad's condition improves.
posted by zarq at 11:52 AM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


One of my more apolitical cousins, that married a hardcore Republican, group texted me and a few other Democrat cousins to say she 'thinks she's becoming a Democrat...' and it was everything my youth pastor told me it be like when your friends at school ask you to tell them about this Jesus guy.
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:54 AM on August 3, 2016 [119 favorites]


O Sock My Sock: " He's very young? Wha?"

"Five Years Old" was the shrink's shorthand for this. (His internal state he means).
posted by Rumple at 11:54 AM on August 3, 2016 [13 favorites]


“The current race is which of these two is the more unacceptable, because right now neither of them is acceptable,” Gingrich said in a Wednesday morning telephone interview. “Trump is helping her to win by proving he is more unacceptable than she is.”

Gingrich said Trump has only a matter of weeks to reverse course. “Anybody who is horrified by Hillary should hope that Trump will take a deep breath and learn some new skills,” he said. “He cannot win the presidency operating the way he is now. She can’t be bad enough to elect him if he’s determined to make this many mistakes.”


Your former frontrunner for Trump VP, ladeez an gennulmin.
posted by penduluum at 11:55 AM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]




God, this article. Just paragraph after paragraph of Republican poobahs crying and wringing their hands and whining some variation of "Oooh, if Trump would just be a BIG BOY and BEHAVE he'd DEFINITELY be beating that mean ol' Hillary Clinton!"

Maybe if you hadn't nominated a narcissistic, unstable man-child with fascist tendencies who needs to be supervised and mollified at all times like a four year-old at a funeral you wouldn't have this problem, gentlemen.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:56 AM on August 3, 2016 [47 favorites]


if I'd had two laptops I would have had sixteen tabs open on each one, furiously tapping away on both.

i didn't read that as a "t" at first, it was quite vulgar and hilarious
posted by numaner at 11:56 AM on August 3, 2016 [16 favorites]


breaking: DC public transit reports bus shortage, since so many are being borrowed to throw trump under
posted by murphy slaw at 11:56 AM on August 3, 2016 [32 favorites]


-"A long (but good) essay about why so many poor white people support Trump and other racist causes"

-"Demographically, this election is shaping up to be 'non-college-educated white men vs everyone else' "

also btw...
John Noonan on nuclear deterrence and Donald Trump: "what really concerns me, as a former nuke guy, is the idea of a narcissist walking around with nuclear authenticators"
posted by kliuless at 11:56 AM on August 3, 2016 [13 favorites]


For your edification and amusement yt

For a video that has some shockingly expensive shots, the editing and sound work are weird and subpar.
posted by drezdn at 11:57 AM on August 3, 2016


I just realized something. Trump *will* drop out. He won't go to election if his poll numbers are bad, he'll drop out and say something about it being rigged, probably that the RNC & DNC are in cahoots. He can't let himself get into a situation where he will proved a loser. And the RNC knows this now and are trying to figure out how to be ready for it.
posted by gofargogo at 11:58 AM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


Hang in there, cookergirl. I'll be in Tennessee for a couple of weeks right before/during the election and I am already bracing myself. Best to your family.
posted by mochapickle at 11:59 AM on August 3, 2016


breaking: DC public transit reports bus shortage, since so many are being borrowed to throw trump under

Sadly the WMATA bus drivers have a history of being willing to drive over folks so this may be a match made in heaven.
posted by phearlez at 11:59 AM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


Newt Gingrich thinks there is a "residual possibility" that Trump can win.

And then he'll pivot, right?
posted by Artw at 12:00 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


If Trump is going to drop out, he needs a way of doing it where he can "exit a winner." The easiest would be to claim that he has developed a medical condition, or to protect his family. I don't think he drops out though.
posted by drezdn at 12:00 PM on August 3, 2016




The latest from Cracked, heh.
posted by Melismata at 12:02 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


The part that really gets me is that a lot of prominent Republicans are denouncing the batshit crazy things Trump is saying, but no one of any import has pulled their endorsement.

I think the Wall Street Journal's editorial board is about a big of a loss as a Republican candidate can have.
posted by msalt at 12:02 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


Have we ever had an actually crazy president?

Despite the pejorative term, my interest in presidential mental illness was piqued. Then I found this:

Study: Half of All Presidents Suffered from Mental Illness

and it didn't surprise me at all.
posted by dlugoczaj at 12:02 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


From the trump rally in Daytona Beach: the MC announces something from the fire marshall, resulting in angry booing from the crowd, as the MC insists that what he's saying is serious. trump: first nominee to incorporate anti-fire-safety message into his platform.
posted by codacorolla at 12:03 PM on August 3, 2016 [49 favorites]


As soon as the Republican "leadership" comes out against him, he drops. Says they won't even support their own nominee over Crooked Hillary, that's how corrupt the system is. Sad.
posted by gofargogo at 12:03 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


I carefully lifted out everyone in all my timelines who were trump heavy and/or election heavy sharers and put them in quarantine (a list) where I can see them if I choose but the information isn't in my face all day.

But I snuck back in here. Orange crack indeed - its the hypnotic addiction to the trainwreck
posted by infini at 12:04 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


This election is effecting my productivity, it's hard to write light historic comedy when you think the world is ending.

I'm about 1/3 of the way through Jacques Yonnet's Rue des Maléfices, which chronicles the Nazi occupation of Paris from the street level*. We are in a bad spot on multiple fronts, but even if Trump does somehow pull this off - which seems highly unlikely - we aren't going to have death camps or corpses stacked like cordwood by the side of the road. The world is not ending.

Hannah Arendt nailed the real and ongoing threat here in 1964:

"If we look at the techniques of totalitarian government, it is obvious that the argument of 'the lesser evil'...is one of the mechanisms built into the machinery of terror and criminality. Acceptance of lesser evils is consciously used in conditioning the government officials as well as the population at large to the acceptance of evil as such...Politically, the weakness of the argument has always been that those who choose the lesser evil forget very quickly that they chose evil."

We're so far from out of the woods if HRC wins. Still, however, no death camps.

* Interspersed with Yonnet's observations about the increase in seemingly supernatural events brought on by the ambient dread and fear of death - it's an eerie, sui generis book.
posted by ryanshepard at 12:04 PM on August 3, 2016 [13 favorites]


Study: Half of All Presidents Suffered from Mental Illness

Ugh retroactively diagnosing people in the past is garbage, almost as much garbage as trying to diagnose public figures you haven't actually treated (and if you had, you wouldn't be able to say). We can call Trump insane in a general pejorative sense, but we have no idea what kind of 'mental illness' he may or may not suffer from. He's reckless, callous, impulsive, reactionary, ignorant, self-centered, and so on, but we don't know anything about his mental health.
posted by dis_integration at 12:05 PM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


It seems to me that there is little chance of Trump being able to nuke anything or anyone on a whim. The US military is very professional. However, there is a big chance of him resorting to this in a full blown crisis such as North Korea invades South Korea, or India invades Pakistani Kashmir. The military may feel more constrained to follow orders in the midst of a genuine emergency.
posted by Rumple at 12:06 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Study: Half of All Presidents Suffered from Mental Illness

What was the old joke -- that if you gave a box to someone, told them that in this box was a button they could push, and it would destroy the world, any sane person would give the box back and not want anything to do with it, but that each Presidential candidate is yelling "Gimmie the box!"
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:06 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


Trump is a facing a devastating loss. Right now the Senate is likely 50-50 but much more of a collapse by Trump could result in the Republicans losing house and Senate.

That would be massive especially if it can be followed by State level gains. 2020 should result in some fairly massive redistricting fights and having 5 SCOTUS justices could make a massive difference.
posted by vuron at 12:07 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


The Washington Post interview of Trump by Phil Rucker really is a must-read. Trump seems utterly unaware that he's being...well, not exactly condescended to, but certainly handled in a conscious and deliberate way. Rucker deftly avoids challenging or validating anything Trump says – or he lets Trump think he's validating him, leaving the obvious subtext unspoken (Trump: "There are those who will say [the debates] will be one of the highest-rated shows in television history, if not the highest." Rucker: "They’re probably right about that"). He just facilitates Trump's stream-of-consciousness rambling.

How about we just create a new symbolic office called Moon President, and award it to Donald? "Mr. Trump, you did it! This is truly historic! You are the very first Moon President in American history! Schoolchildren will read about you for centuries to come! You are the uncontested ruler of all the lunar globe!"

...and then just stick him in a room full of tacky gilded crap, surrounded by fake CNN and MSNBC cameras, with a PC hooked up to a fake Twitter page that just shows ever-climbing follower and favorite numbers.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 12:07 PM on August 3, 2016 [66 favorites]


Now I'm curious if Trump drops out whether the the GOP could find some poor bastard named "Donald John Trump" to replace the Trump as the GOP presidential candidate on all those state ballots.
posted by Mitheral at 12:08 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


My brother-in-law is a white Southern Baptist Texas good-old-boy--and a cop.

This week his son told me he's Team Hillary.
posted by emjaybee at 12:09 PM on August 3, 2016 [81 favorites]


WTH, ryanshepard? HRC is a pretty darned good person. Interesting story today about how she and Kaine both adhere to the social gospel, meaning there is a faith basis to their progressive politics. And have you been paying attention to her long history of working for social justice, for individuals as well as groups?
posted by bearwife at 12:09 PM on August 3, 2016 [26 favorites]


Study: Half of All Presidents Suffered from Mental Illness

Ugh retroactively diagnosing people in the past is garbage, almost as much garbage as trying to diagnose public figures you haven't actually treated (and if you had, you wouldn't be able to say). We can call Trump insane in a general pejorative sense, but we have no idea what kind of 'mental illness' he may or may not suffer from. He's reckless, callous, impulsive, reactionary, ignorant, self-centered, and so on, but we don't know anything about his mental health.


Yah, we already know everything we need to know without medicalising everything.
 
posted by Herodios at 12:10 PM on August 3, 2016


His numbers in free-fall, now battling it out with Jill Stein for 3rd place, Trump makes a (relatively benign, actually) statement which is finally the straw that breaks the camel's back. Cristie snaps, physically tearing Trump's head from his body. Holding it aloft, he declares, "NOW I'M THE NOMINEE!" A weary RNC declares, "sure, whatever." For the few remaining elections until the Republican Party ceases to exist entirely all primaries are contested via Thunderdome.
posted by ckape at 12:10 PM on August 3, 2016 [15 favorites]


It seems to me that there is little chance of Trump being able to nuke anything or anyone on a whim.

There absolutely is a chance. The only requirement is that the president and the defense secretary agree. If the defense secretary disagrees, the president can fire the defense secretary and ask his deputy. If the deputy disagrees he can keep firing people until someone down the hierarchy does agree. Once the military receives orders from the president, nuclear weapons are launched. There are no additional hoops to jump through. In 1973, Harold Hering was discharged from the Air Force for asking how he could determine if an order to launch nukes came from a sane president.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 12:11 PM on August 3, 2016 [49 favorites]


The part that really gets me is that a lot of prominent Republicans are denouncing the batshit crazy things Trump is saying, but no one of any import has pulled their endorsement.

And Obama keyed in on that and made it worse for the right-wing yesterday.

By saying "you guys really need to stop denouncing his words and drop your endorsements if you mean it", they're now stuck between 1) Sticking with Trump until the end, or 2) Looking like they took Obama's advice which we all know is verboten.
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:11 PM on August 3, 2016 [25 favorites]


ryanshepard, perhaps you'd care to read Noam Chomsky on the topic of Lesser Evil Voting (though I don't agree with your premise - I don't believe Clinton to be the lesser evil and am proud to support her). Particularly I would note:
1) Voting should not be viewed as a form of personal self-expression or moral judgement directed in retaliation towards major party candidates who fail to reflect our values, or of a corrupt system designed to limit choices to those acceptable to corporate elites.

2) The exclusive consequence of the act of voting in 2016 will be (if in a contested “swing state”) to marginally increase or decrease the chance of one of the major party candidates winning.

posted by peacheater at 12:11 PM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


It seems to me that there is little chance of Trump being able to nuke anything or anyone on a whim. The US military is very professional.
Former CIA and NSA director Michael Hayden disagreed in that interview with Joe Scarborough that has been making the rounds all day.
Scarborough then asked a hypothetical question to Hayden about how quickly nuclear weapons could be deployed if a president were to give approval.

"It's scenario dependent, but the system is designed for speed and decisiveness. It's not designed to debate the decision," Hayden said.
posted by dfan at 12:11 PM on August 3, 2016 [12 favorites]


The military may feel more constrained to follow orders in the midst of a genuine emergency.

For sure. I've been very much beating the "BUT MUSHROOM CLOUDS!" drum and I hope people understand that I don't actually think the President can push The Button because @bigboivlad insulted him on Twitter. But it ain't for no reason that Kim Jong Un thinks a Trump presidency would be totes awesome. All the world crazies who are spoiling for global thermonuclear war and/or a religious apocalypse see the potential in Trump quite clearly. An administration allergic to negotiation and bellicose in the extreme could very well start a world war that ends in tactical nuclear weapons being deployed by someone. I'd rather not find out if I'm right about this.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:12 PM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


That's Trump's message: "Look at me, I'm on TV!"

"I'm a general president candidate -- wheeeee!"
posted by wildblueyonder at 12:12 PM on August 3, 2016 [23 favorites]


And I'm sorry, if your morals compel you to act in an election in such a way as to increase the chances of a fascist becoming President, I question those morals.
posted by peacheater at 12:12 PM on August 3, 2016 [54 favorites]


I wonder how much of the Trump dropping out rumors is: just made up out of whole cloth; serious; or a deliberate leak by Priebus and the gang to publicly scare Trump as part of an intervention.
posted by zachlipton at 12:12 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


I tried to bait my (very professional) shrink into commenting on Trump.

Not to worry! Extremely unprofessional TV quack Dr. Drew is more than willing to chime in on his guesses about the mental health of Trump and his supporters.

And thus Dr. Drew has put me in the extremely uncomfortable position of sticking up for Trump because you don't diagnose people based on what they do on TV!
posted by Cookiebastard at 12:13 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


My twitter feed is so full of US election chatter that I almost missed hearing that my Prime Minister popped out of a cave in the woods half-naked this weekend. Every other politico on earth has a free pass, they'd have to do something really incredible to break into the news this summer.
posted by Mary Ellen Carter at 12:14 PM on August 3, 2016 [22 favorites]


ryanshepard, perhaps you'd care to read Noam Chomsky on the topic of Lesser Evil Voting.

I've read this piece, and agree with him on this point - which is the thrust of the thing, really:

Finally, it should be understood that the reigning doctrinal system recognizes the role presidential elections perform in diverting the left from actions which have the potential to be effective in advancing its agenda. These include developing organizations committed to extra-political means, most notably street protest, but also competing for office in potentially winnable races. The left should devote the minimum of time necessary to exercise the LEV choice then immediately return to pursuing goals which are not timed to the national electoral cycle.
posted by ryanshepard at 12:14 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]




Noam Chomsky is right (as usual), but Hannah Arendt articulates a really interesting problem and perspective as well. I don't think the two views actually conflict or disagree. Maybe a better synthesis is to utilize Lesser Evil or tactical voting, while learning to be more conscious of why you're doing it and the related issues and consequences.

For example (and not to criticize but because it's so illustrative of ideological habits), not immediately dismissing Hannah Arendt's argument while making an argument in support of tactical voting would be an example of being more mindful and conscious of these complexities. That's something individuals can learn to do.
posted by polymodus at 12:17 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


For your edification and amusement

How did he change from biker clothes into a suit as he walked through a door? Is he Batman?
posted by kirkaracha at 12:17 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


How did you people already put a hundred and sixty damn comments into this thread
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:18 PM on August 3, 2016 [22 favorites]


And thus Dr. Drew has put me in the extremely uncomfortable position of sticking up for Trump because you don't diagnose people based on what they do on TV!

True. But as someone who is licensed to diagnose mental disorders, I feel pretty confident in being able to offer a ballpark diagnosis at this point. Trump has overshared in many situations that make it very different from, say, diagnosing someone based on their policy choices or their morals. After all, diagnosis of mental disorders is always based on patient report.
posted by OmieWise at 12:18 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


They’re narcissists campaigning for a narcissist. At this point it’s a giant circlejerk of narcissism. People think we’re joking when we say narcissists cannot apologize or admit they’re wrong. No, we’re serious. It’s an actual, distinct symptom of narcissism. These people cannot apologize or even recognize when they’re wrong. They may say something as simple as “it’s raining outside” and 2 minutes later- when they realize it’s not actually raining outside- they’ll say “I never said it was raining. I never said that. You said that.” with a stone-cold straight face. Then they’ll go on to blame you for the rain. If you’ve ever argued with a true narcissist it’s as fascinating as it is godawfully frustrating. These people should be in labs, being studied by the best doctors and scientists in the world. The mental gymnastics they do to preserve their ego and pride are just incredible. Scary, frustrating, and incredible.

And not only that... Every day that passes, Every day that passes, this turns out to be more and more true:

Over the weekend, I outlined my heuristic of Trumpian action which my high school classmate John Scalzi has now dubbed ‘Trump’s Razor‘ in honor of ‘Occam’s Razor’, the foundational mode of reasoning devised by the 14th century scholastic theologian William of Occam. According to Trump’s Razor: “ascertain the stupidest possible scenario that can be reconciled with the available facts” and that answer is likely correct. Last night ran very late at TPM thanks to the Melania/plagiarism debacle. As I was walking to my apartment well past midnight I started considering the implications of Trump’s Razor and I shuddered and recoiled at what it told me. To phrase the principle in Occam’s terms, it tells us ‘the stupidest scenario is always to be preferred’. And what was the stupidest possible scenario? Right: Melania wrote the speech herself.
posted by DreamerFi at 12:18 PM on August 3, 2016 [27 favorites]


Trump:
Clinton cannot be left alone to her devices
Indecisive, from crisis to crisis
The best she she can do for the United States
Is go back to Harlem while the FBI investigates

Clinton
Don't do a thing, November will prove him wrong
We have an election to win, so let's move along.

Feel free to add a Hamilton and Laurens part.
posted by vuron at 12:21 PM on August 3, 2016 [12 favorites]


for real though, is clinton doing anything right now except coordinating ad buys, keeping her mouth shut, and trying not to giggle? what else do you do when your opponent is his own counter-campaign?
posted by murphy slaw at 12:24 PM on August 3, 2016 [21 favorites]




OmieWise

Are there not ethical issues with diagnosing people without having treated them, and without their consent, and speaking about the diagnosis publicly?
posted by Cookiebastard at 12:25 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Matt Mackowiak (GOP strategist) tweetstorm:

13/ The GOP has a drunk driver at the wheel, chugging vodka, and he's got other people's children in the car. He must be stopped.

(Sorry, couldn't figure out how to link the entire thing.)
posted by salix at 12:25 PM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


"If we look at the techniques of totalitarian government, it is obvious that the argument of 'the lesser evil'...is one of the mechanisms built into the machinery of terror and criminality. Acceptance of lesser evils is consciously used in conditioning the government officials as well as the population at large to the acceptance of evil as such...Politically, the weakness of the argument has always been that those who choose the lesser evil forget very quickly that they chose evil."
The context matters here. Arendt, if I remember, was talking about Jews who collaborated in WWII by supplying lists of jews to go to the camps, because they believed that by having control over the lists they could save some Jews, while if the Germans had control, everyone would die.

This a whole order of magnitude different a 'lesser evil' than voting for Clinton. I mean, unless you want to violently overthrow the US gov't, there are no viable alternatives within the existing political order to prevent the catastrophe of the GOP controlling all three branches of gov't besides a Clinton victory in November.
posted by dis_integration at 12:26 PM on August 3, 2016 [14 favorites]


"Rudolph Giuliani now being rushed onto the field to try to control and advise Trump on the shipwreck he has made of the Republican party? Based on Rudy's convention screech, what exactly foes he have to offer Goldilocks? How to scream at the camera, fangs bared vampire style and frighten the kiddies?" -- Dick Cavett

Cavett is giving out some primo Bitter-Old-Man-With-No-Fucks-To-Give jabs on his Facebook page all throughout this. Highly recommended. He's not holding anything back. And it's the original Dick Cavett for crying out loud, in case you too were wondering where all the journalists or interviewers like Dick Cavett are these days.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:26 PM on August 3, 2016 [23 favorites]


So the other day I was in a restaurant and I overheard a woman who was a fifth grader when the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal erupted talking to her friends. She told them that that year, she dressed up as Monica Lewinsky for Halloween. She described how her mom helped her pick out her black wig, and her blue dress, and her knee pads. Another kid in her class dressed up in a Bill Clinton mask.

Fifth graders are ten to eleven years old.

I've been haunted by this ever since I heard it. (Eavesdropping kills, guys.) Not only was the sex scandal such big news that a fifth grader knew about it, but a little girl's parents bought into the narrative to the extent that they approved of and helped her wear that outfit. Which she wore to school. Which she wore to trick-or-treat.

Of all of the weird, horrible shit I have seen this year, for me this incident best encapsulates this endless, deeply insane election.
posted by mynameisluka at 12:26 PM on August 3, 2016 [49 favorites]


Is there a chance that we could do a trade of Kaine for Trudeau? After all they were each clearly born on the wrong side of the US-Canada borders.

Kaine would be adorbs doing a "Want to crack open a couple of Molsons ehh?"

And Trudeau would add some rock star appeal to the US election.

I could totally see him and Matt McConaughey having a bongo circle at a rally and going shirtless all the time.

"I'm sorry Hillary, polling has shown that if I keep campaigning in Austin for the next month we could totally get Texas to turn blue. BTW have you made it to Franklins yet? Matt and I keep going there everyday and they don't even make us stand in line!"
posted by vuron at 12:27 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


Faster than a speeding bullet.
posted by infini at 12:27 PM on August 3, 2016


I'm getting a little less afraid that Trump will win because I thing he'll be hanging from his own rope by the end of all of this. My biggest fear now is that after the election he won't go away.
posted by mudpuppie at 12:29 PM on August 3, 2016 [15 favorites]


vuron: Is there a chance that we could do a trade of Kaine for Trudeau? After all they were each clearly born on the wrong side of the US-Canada borders.

Canada: No, eh!
posted by dripdripdrop at 12:30 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


As an Internet user, I can issue psychiatric and psychological diagnoses however seems fit to me
posted by thelonius at 12:31 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Yeah "it's bad but we don't have death camps" doesn't actually make me feel better.

I had a family member whom I'd never would've expected to drop a Trumpy racist line thinking she was in a safe space and I just ...hung up on them.
posted by The Whelk at 12:31 PM on August 3, 2016 [44 favorites]


Is there a chance that we could do a trade of Kaine for Trudeau?

Take off, eh? Do you know what we had to go through the last ten fucking years to get Kid Trudeau? DO YOU?
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:32 PM on August 3, 2016 [52 favorites]


for real though, is clinton doing anything right now except coordinating ad buys, keeping her mouth shut, and trying not to giggle? what else do you do when your opponent is his own counter-campaign?

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
-Napoleon Bonaparte (probably)
posted by the painkiller at 12:33 PM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


The dude on the livestream of the Trump debate is sending trolls to some other youtube channel 'if you feel like trolling'.
posted by winna at 12:33 PM on August 3, 2016


Remember, the bar is so low at this point, that all Trump has to do is act like a pre-teen and he'll be seen as maturing. Meanwhile Hillary can afford few mistakes.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:33 PM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


My fears are not that Trump will win because quite frankly his chances are horrible.

It's just that he's in theory legitimizing some crazy hate speech and white nationalist stuff that used to have to hide in the cracks and crevices of our democracy.

What Trump is showing is that not only does sunshine not act as a disinfectant but that there is pretty close to a critical mass of white nationalists that simply are unwilling to accept that there is a legitimate government possible without it being dominated and run by a White Male for the benefit of White Males.
posted by vuron at 12:33 PM on August 3, 2016 [54 favorites]


Yeah "it's bad but we don't have death camps" doesn't actually make me feel better.

It only kind of makes me feel better, but I also think it's the baseline stakes of human existence. We're either slaughtering one another wholesale in your immediate neighborhood or not - and if not, it's a pretty good day. History seems to strongly suggest that this is the best we can hope for, collectively.

It's just that he's in theory legitimizing some crazy hate speech and white nationalist stuff that used to have to hide in the cracks and crevices of our democracy.

The Klan had something like 50,000 members in the mid-1960s, and have just a tiny fraction of that now. Whatever Trump does, he's going to have to do a hell of a lot of it to get us back to swamp of hate and violence that constituted even the recent past in the US.
posted by ryanshepard at 12:34 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


Seriously, I didn't get to vote for Trudeau because I'm a PR here, but for serious, you cannot have him. Get your own hunky occasionally shirtless yoga-doing tousled hair world leader. Because right now, holy fuck, am I glad he is the one leading where I live right now.
posted by Kitteh at 12:35 PM on August 3, 2016 [27 favorites]


I had a family member whom I'd never would've expected to drop a Trumpy racist line thinking she was in a safe space and I just ...hung up on them.

Yeah this thanksgiving is going to be a disaster no matter who wins.
posted by dis_integration at 12:35 PM on August 3, 2016 [15 favorites]


HRC is not just staying home and enjoying this. She has a packed schedule.
posted by bearwife at 12:35 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


vuron: "Is there a chance that we could do a trade of Kaine for Trudeau? After all they were each clearly born on the wrong side of the US-Canada borders."

What? No! We aren't your farm team.
posted by Mitheral at 12:35 PM on August 3, 2016 [31 favorites]


What Trump is showing is that not only does sunshine not act as a disinfectant but that there is pretty close to a critical mass of white nationalists that simply are unwilling to accept that there is a legitimate government possible without it being dominated and run by a White Male for the benefit of White Males.

It's always worst right after you pull the fridge out and discover where the roaches have been coming from.
posted by emjaybee at 12:36 PM on August 3, 2016 [28 favorites]


What Trump is showing is that not only does sunshine not act as a disinfectant but that there is pretty close to a critical mass of white nationalists that simply are unwilling to accept that there is a legitimate government possible without it being dominated and run by a White Male for the benefit of White Males.

And this is what is scaring the rest of the planet. Don't forget the nuke system is designed for quick action and no debate.
posted by infini at 12:36 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


I had a family member whom I'd never would've expected to drop a Trumpy racist line thinking she was in a safe space and I just ...hung up on them.

Pesach was a shit show and Mother's day wasn't any better. I'm terrified about what will happen on Rosh Hashanah because it is absolutely going to be discussed and I will throw everything down.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:38 PM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


What Trump is showing is that not only does sunshine not act as a disinfectant but that there is pretty close to a critical mass of white nationalists that simply are unwilling to accept that there is a legitimate government possible without it being dominated and run by a White Male for the benefit of White Males.

And those white nationalists are very, very well armed. That's what scares me the most.
posted by town of cats at 12:38 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Are there not ethical issues with diagnosing people without having treated them, and without their consent, and speaking about the diagnosis publicly?

In America specifically, this practice is prohibited by members of the American Psychiatric Association, as a result of the 1964 election. This article has the background. It also says:

Nonetheless, many mental health providers have challenged the Goldwater Rule. Psychologists (with Ph.D.s, as opposed to psychiatrists, with medical degrees) argue that this principle does not fully apply to them, and that offering diagnoses of public figures can be in the national interest.


I have been googling around to try and find out if other countries have an equivalent to the Goldwater Rule. So far I haven't found any info one way or the other.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:39 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


What? No! We aren't your farm team.

I think they're pressing their luck because they just got PK Subban off of us. Forget it, America. NO DICE.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:39 PM on August 3, 2016 [15 favorites]


How many people are watching this upcoming rally speech, either via stream, or on television? Maybe try to load the newest comments so we're not all repeating the same quotes.
posted by cashman at 12:39 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


I tell you what, "The powerful are terrifying and completely unrelatable to me" is a tough row to hoe in an election year.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 12:39 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm terrified about what will happen on Rosh Hashanah

The many Holocaust victims in my family would roll in their unmarked, non existent graves at the thought of Jews supporting Trump. Under all that orange he is a would be Fuehrer.
posted by bearwife at 12:40 PM on August 3, 2016 [18 favorites]


Here is the full thread for the below, which makes it clear that the real problem the Mackowiak has with this is that it impacts the future of his garbage party.

13/ The GOP has a drunk driver at the wheel, chugging vodka, and he's got other people's children in the car. He must be stopped.
posted by winna at 12:40 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


If you're going to call Hillary Clinton evil, implicitly or explicitly, I'm going to demand some goddamn evidence. And it had better be something that is actually true, not some bullshit dank meme turned into an unverifiable rant. Like actual reporting. Facts.

I am so fucking tired of this shit.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:40 PM on August 3, 2016 [138 favorites]


Wait we don't have death camps? But the Republicans promised me that Obamacare would result in death camps.

Next you are going to tell me that Obama isn't planning to seize control of the US through some "national emergency" in January that is hidden behind some sort of CDC-FEMA NWO operation.

Wake up America, quit being sheeple!
posted by vuron at 12:40 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm watching CNN, and they've just been yammering on about Trump and all that - with a small window in the bottom right to alert the viewer Trump will be on soon. Meanwhile Hillary Clinton is actually speaking. So instead of actually covering her live, they don't, and only now are they running video of Hillary speaking, with a "Moments ago in Denver" tag in the upper right. Jesus.
posted by cashman at 12:41 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Forget it, America. NO DICE.

*whispers* You could have the Stanley Cup back.
posted by drezdn at 12:42 PM on August 3, 2016 [27 favorites]


We're so far from out of the woods if HRC wins. Still, however, no death camps.

This is a bullshit rhetorical stunt, implying Clinton is close to death camps. Worthy of the Trump campaign, even. Stop it.
posted by aught at 12:43 PM on August 3, 2016 [45 favorites]


My great-grandmother came to the US when she was 16, by herself, from Austria. Her parents and eleven siblings died in a concentration camp. I can't imagine what she would be thinking now.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:43 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


bearwife: The many Holocaust victims in my family would roll in their graves at the thought of Jews supporting Trump. Under all that orange he is a would be Fuehrer.

Oh, but his daughter converted to Judaism! He can't possibly be anti-Semitic with a Jewish son-in-law, and a daughter who converted!

(This is an actual argument my boss made. I don't think he's gonna vote Trump anyway, but ugh.)
posted by SansPoint at 12:43 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


A Turkish friend of mine who lives in the US commented the other day that she sees people unfriending each other on social media over differences political views. That's exactly what she saw in Turkey 4-5 years ago. That tear in society never healed. Let's hope the US isn't heading the same way as Turkey...
posted by Triplanetary at 12:43 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


Are Trump's hands in fact, comically small? Find out for yourself!

(Smaller than mine, and I'm a 5'9" woman, but well-known as a long-fingered sophisticate...)
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 12:43 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


*whispers* You could have the Stanley Cup back.

GET THEEE BEHIND ME SATAN
posted by saturday_morning at 12:44 PM on August 3, 2016 [16 favorites]


"Donald Trump measures your value by what's in your heart" says an incredibly white man I don't recognize.
posted by winna at 12:44 PM on August 3, 2016


Tony Schwartz, who ghost-wrote Trump's "auto"-biography and followed him around for 18 months to do so, has some excellent insight (perhaps the best, really) on who and what Trump actually is in this New Yorker article
posted by nonspecialist at 12:44 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


Khizr and Ghazala Khan, parents of an American soldier who was killed in Iraq, continued to condemn Republican nominee Donald Trump in a back-and-forth that's dominated coverage since the Khans spoke at the Democratic National Convention last week.

I'm sure many have pointed out Trump's obvious lack of empathy, and how troubling that is, in basic terms of this person potentially having access to nuclear weapons.

But it also shows his lack of political or even intellectual savvy — he could have easily mentioned his feelings for his own children and how he would not want his or any children to die in a war that he opposed, one which Hillary voted for, which was the same war that caused the death of Cpt. Humayun Khan. That would have been a perfectly valid and policy-based response that would draw the two in important contrast, especially for issue-based voters who have concerns about the constant state of war the United States seems to be in.

Instead, his strategy continues to be to attack the victims of the war, instead of his political opponent, who was one of its original perpetrators. It's such an easy response that it is kind of baffling he ignores it.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 12:46 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


Let's hope the US isn't heading the same way as Turkey...

Turkey headed that way because their leader is a would be dictator/strongman. Exactly as Trump wants to be. Not because of social media behavior.
posted by bearwife at 12:46 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


drezdn: "Forget it, America. NO DICE.

*whispers* You could have the Stanley Cup back.
"

Now you've gone too far.
posted by octothorpe at 12:46 PM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


OmieWise

Are there not ethical issues with diagnosing people without having treated them, and without their consent, and speaking about the diagnosis publicly?


Of course there are. Dr. Drew is a shill anyway, with no ethics at all. You'll notice that I did not offer my diagnosis. Consent is not a factor, regardless. People get remanded for psych evals all the time who do not consent to it.

The main point here, though, is that while in most cases it really is unethical in the "I should not do it because I have so little information I am likely to be very wrong" sense, in this case I do not think that is operative. I think anyone with basic psychological assessment skills, and a passing familiarity with the diagnostic nosology most current in the US, can make a diagnosis with some confidence.
posted by OmieWise at 12:46 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Canadians please think about the good of the entire world.

In Canada Trudeau is a big fish in a small pond. He can come to the US and have fun and actually do important things other than go Kayaking off of Baffin Island or whatever action adventure activity he's doing now because he's bored stiff.

And you can go back to that nice man Stephen Harper so he can work more of his plan of turning Canada into the Arizona of the North.
posted by vuron at 12:46 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


This is a bullshit rhetorical stunt, implying Clinton is close to death camps. Worthy of the Trump campaign, even. Stop it.

Complete misreading - my point is that, as awful for average working people as I think a Clinton presidency will be (and as deadly as it will be for those on the receiving end of her policies in the Mideast), there are vastly more awful political possibilities than any outcome of the current US race in even our recent past.
posted by ryanshepard at 12:48 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Except in the "I don't want anyone, even an asshole, to suffer from untreated mental illness" sense, I don't care if Trump is actually ill or just drunk on his privilege. He is too dangerously unstable to be near so much power, whatever the reasons for that instability. Whatever is wrong with Trump, being President will make it worse.
posted by emjaybee at 12:49 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


Someone needs to bring up Romney and goad Trump into talking shit about Mormons.
posted by bongo_x at 12:50 PM on August 3, 2016 [13 favorites]


Giving Canada the Cup would be a temporary gift at best considering inevitably they'd lose it in the next season.

What we should do instead is offer to trade 2 decent US teams for the Maple Leafs and Canadiens so that perhaps Canadians could rediscover pride in their national game once again.
posted by vuron at 12:50 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Oh, but his daughter converted to Judaism! He can't possibly be anti-Semitic with a Jewish son-in-law, and a daughter who converted!

Are people accusing Trump himself of being anti-Semitic, or just his Twitter troll followers? There's definitely a cloud of people who seem to revel in being offensive hovering around his social media presence. Trump himself seems to have gone through the usual pro-Jewish / pro-Israel motions that one would expect from a GOP candidate.
posted by theorique at 12:50 PM on August 3, 2016


What we should do instead is offer to trade 2 decent US teams for the Maple Leafs and Canadiens so that perhaps Canadians could rediscover pride in their national game once again.

You already sent us Auston Matthews, so, thanks but gonna have to try harder
posted by saturday_morning at 12:51 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


For your edification and amusement

For a video that has some shockingly expensive shots, the editing and sound work are weird and subpar.


I don't really see anything in that video that couldn't be accomplished with a drone and a go pro -- am I missing something?

Besides, of course, the assumption that said drone cameraman would be taking appropriate safety measures while say, flying the thing through regular highway traffic, which I don't think is an assumption that can fairly be made.
posted by sparklemotion at 12:51 PM on August 3, 2016


Someone needs to bring up Romney and goad Trump into talking shit about Mormons.

Gary Johnson already did. Too bad, he might have won Utah.
posted by My Dad at 12:52 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Another white dude I don't recognize is up talking about All Lives Matter and Blue Lives Matter because our country is under siege. This livestream is cutting off the intros so I have no idea who anyone is.
posted by winna at 12:52 PM on August 3, 2016


My current bad dream. Trump will drop out, saying the parties are in cahoots in scuttling his campaign and he will be right and many many people will be pissed.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 12:52 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Are people accusing Trump himself of being anti-Semitic, or just his Twitter troll followers? There's definitely a cloud of people who seem to revel in being offensive hovering around his social media presence. Trump himself seems to have gone through the usual pro-Jewish / pro-Israel motions that one would expect from a GOP candidate.

He's definitely made some comments about 'Jewish bankers' and so forth. It seems to be the "vastly ignorant sweeping statements" type of racism rather than the "I am frothing with rage" type of racism, but still.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:52 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


Livestream of what?
posted by agregoli at 12:53 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


"The two biggest problems in this country are Washington DC and Hollywood."
posted by winna at 12:53 PM on August 3, 2016


There are many flavors of anti-Semitism, most of which stop far short of active frothing hatred and would not preclude being okay with having a Jewish son-in-law.
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:53 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


What we should do instead is offer to trade 2 decent US teams for the Maple Leafs and Canadiens...

Leave Jesus Price out of this. He's not going anywhere.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:54 PM on August 3, 2016


So apparently Trump is currently almost an hour late to appear onstage at his rally in Florida, and they keep having to send random talking heads up on stage
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:54 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


The guy talking right now Michael Flynn, the one former military guy that supports Trump.
posted by airish at 12:54 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


as awful for average working people as I think a Clinton presidency will be

Why do you think it will be awful? 10 years ago, as a senator, she introduced a bill to raise minimum wage, and has made helping the working class a key component of her rhetoric since the beginning of her campaign. Affordable child care has been one of her key concerns, she has a proposal to cap costs at 10% which would make a HUGE difference in the lives of average working people.

Which of her specific actions or policies makes you think she, personally, will be "awful" for the working class?
posted by pocketfullofrye at 12:54 PM on August 3, 2016 [81 favorites]


"Something else I like to talk about from my experience in the military is the enemy camp, and the enemy camp in this case is Hillary Rodham Clinton."
posted by winna at 12:55 PM on August 3, 2016


Crowd chanting "Lock her up" after Flynn brought up Benghazi.
posted by airish at 12:55 PM on August 3, 2016


I'm the one who said I can't fathom Jews supporting Trump. Not because he is anti-Semitic, although his repeated remarks about Jews being great with money are very much in that mode and offensive. I think Trump's hatreds (for example toward Muslims, immigrants, people of color) are aimed at different folks.

But he is indeed a hater, a person who has no respect for democracy or the rule of law or treaties, a man who is reckless beyond belief about the use of force and torture, and a would be dictator. And I think people with recent experience of a Holocaust should get why these things are so bad.
posted by bearwife at 12:55 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]




Trump is totally anti-semitic. Not in the typical Neo-Nazi let's finish what Hitler started but in the standard WASP way where you reduce a race to stereotypes. So in his mind he totally trusts Jewish people in yarmulkes to be his accountants.

He might like Jewish Delis and be fine with having a Jewish son-in-law but still he is reducing people to a two-dimensional narrative all the time.

It's part and parcel of his world view, people are condensed down to stereotypes and people that somehow differ from that stereotype are the exception that proves the rule.
posted by vuron at 12:56 PM on August 3, 2016 [13 favorites]


Agregoli, Trump Livestream
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:56 PM on August 3, 2016


Demographically, this election is shaping up to be 'non-college-educated white men vs everyone else

I dunno. Maybe from a top-level overview standpoint, but the only Trump yard signs I've seen so far were in the wealthiest suburb of Indianapolis, where people are most definitely college-educated. It's also traditionally a very, very red suburb, though.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:57 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


I see Trump as a malignant cancer and I'm afraid it's going to be a Buffy situation where we think we've got the cancer and then there will be a "Mom. . . mommy?" moment where some fanatic enabled by his bullshit will blow up a grade school.

So my snark is powered by a dread regardless of how quickly the Orange Julius Caesar is decompensating.
posted by angrycat at 12:57 PM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


This guy is stalling
posted by R.F.Simpson at 12:57 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Ah, the creepy speaker is Retired Army Lt. General Michael Flynn.
posted by winna at 12:57 PM on August 3, 2016


Orange Julius Caesar

Is this original because it rules
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:58 PM on August 3, 2016 [17 favorites]


We need Trump to hang on for 3-4 more weeks. Once we get to September it is too late to replace him. Come on Trumpster, you can do it.
posted by Justinian at 12:58 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


You can tell this is one of my good days. Once we get another bad poll I'll go back to existential despair.
posted by Justinian at 12:58 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


Okay, here he is.
posted by Don Pepino at 12:58 PM on August 3, 2016


Are people accusing Trump himself of being anti-Semitic?

Remember Trump's infamous Star of David tweet?
posted by zakur at 12:58 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


The Southern Trump voters I know are not poor. They are well-off white families. (My sister, a Democrat, has married into one of them and is horrified.)
posted by Kitteh at 12:58 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Okay, so I just turned on that live stream and ARE THEY SERIOUSLY PLAYING RIDE OF THE VALKYRIES?
posted by uosuaq at 12:58 PM on August 3, 2016 [12 favorites]


Hillary (Video) - I really would like [Trump] to explain why he paid Chinese workers to make Trump ties ... instead of deciding to make those ties right here in Colorado with a company like Knotty. But it's not just his ties. He makes his suits in Mexico..."
posted by cashman at 1:00 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


(That's the one I always confuse with Night On Bald Mountain and I thought to myself, Really?)
posted by mochapickle at 1:00 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Donald is saying the campaign has never been so united.
posted by winna at 1:00 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


It was scary speedmetal the first time I tried it... had to turn it off.
posted by rp at 1:00 PM on August 3, 2016


for real though, is clinton doing anything right now except coordinating ad buys, keeping her mouth shut, and trying not to giggle? what else do you do when your opponent is his own counter-campaign?

Yes she is. Where she's scheduled to be is online. What she's mostly doing right now is "organising events" which basically means travelling to the battleground states, connecting with the volunteers and firing them up, and getting her ground game organized and inspired.

Which of course is staying in the background building things while not interrupting Donald Trump while he's making oh so many mistakes.
posted by Francis at 1:01 PM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


Donald is saying the campaign has never been so united.

Well, he's probably right. 90-plus percent of the campaign is united. In existential despair.
posted by Etrigan at 1:02 PM on August 3, 2016 [18 favorites]


...Dr. Drew is a shill anyway, with no ethics at all...

Thank you for clearing that up,Omniewise. Many people have been using pop-psychology/armchair-psychiatry in these threads related to Trump, and while he's an awful person, I think legitimizing the stigmatizing of people with mental illness by comparing Trump to the mentally ill is NOT HELPING. Many, many, many people have many different forms of mental illness that they are coping with, and comparing them to Trump because he's an outrageous asshole is very hurtful.
posted by Cookiebastard at 1:02 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


did he say bigly?
posted by R.F.Simpson at 1:02 PM on August 3, 2016


Trump raised $80M last month, more than Hilary Clinton, although she ended up netting more money in July.

I read that one donor contributed about 30% of that $80M total. Did anyone else see that?
posted by My Dad at 1:02 PM on August 3, 2016


Just got this email from Bernie:
Election days come and go, but the struggle for economic, social, racial and environmental justice continues. Together, we built something special and unprecedented through our presidential campaign. Now, we are going to take the next steps for our political revolution.

We are building a new organization called Our Revolution. Our goal will be the same as in our campaign: we must work to transform American society by making our political and economic systems work for all of us, not just the 1 percent.

Can you make a $3 contribution to Our Revolution so that we can continue our critical work to take back our country from the billionaire class? Make your contribution here.

On the very first day of our campaign, I wrote to my supporters and said, "This campaign is not about Bernie Sanders. It's about a grassroots movement of Americans standing up and saying: 'Enough is enough. This country and our government belong to all of us, not just a handful of billionaires.'"

That is as true today as it was then. That is why Our Revolution will focus on three distinct areas of work:

Revitalizing American democracy by bringing millions of working people and young people into the political system.
Empowering the next generation of progressive leaders by inspiring, recruiting and supporting progressive candidates across the entire spectrum of government - from school board to the U.S. Senate.
Doing what the corporate media does not do: elevating political consciousness by educating the public about the most pressing issues confronting our nation and the bold solutions needed to address them.
Together we can revitalize our democracy, empower new progressive leaders, and educate the public about the critical issues facing our country. To get started, I need your help, [Name]. Will you join me?

Add a $3 contribution to Our Revolution and be one of the first to join this next phase of our movement.

We have a lot to do together, [Name], and I'm glad you're with me.

In solidarity,

Bernie Sanders


You know, I may be unpopular for saying this, but I wish he wouldn't do this right now. The election is not yet won, we still have Trump to beat. At this moment, we need left/liberals to stand together. Once Bernie endorsed, I expected him to take that endorsement seriously, and actually stump for Hillary, not try to spin off his own separate thing before we've even got a new President. This just gives Bernie-or-Busters more ammunition for thinking that Bernie agrees with them regarding not voting for Hillary.
posted by peacheater at 1:03 PM on August 3, 2016 [42 favorites]


He says it a lot. Some people claim he is saying "big league" but I don't buy it. It's "bigly".
posted by Justinian at 1:03 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


Could we link to her talks, too? Otherwise, I feel like we're part of the problem.
posted by kyrademon at 1:03 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Here he goes with the big plant-builder friend in Mexico again.
posted by mochapickle at 1:03 PM on August 3, 2016


That's a perfectly cromulant word.
posted by drezdn at 1:03 PM on August 3, 2016


Eastwood said that Trump says things we are all thinking? No, just no. I have never had those thoughts. From the NY Tiims:
But what struck us was the frequency with which some Trump supporters use coarse, vitriolic, even violent language — in the epithets they shout and chant, the signs they carry, the T-shirts they wear — a pattern not seen in connection with any other recent political candidate, in any party.
Asking people to be PC is not the ruination of our country. Teaching people that they can say anything they like outloud could be very bad indeed.

Paul Ryan being primaried by a crazy teabagger? I got no problem with that. Ryan is the golden boy because there is so little competition. Without a soap box there isn't as much golden boy can say. A freshman Congressman who is Far Right? Phftphhhh. He won't have Ryan's power and influence just because he takes the seat. Plus there is the bonus that they will have to find some poor sod to take on the mantle of Speaker of the House-- that is if they still have a majority after the election.

Follow the money.
So here is my theory as to what is happening with Trump and what will follow. He loaned his campaign $50 million and entered the race because he thought he could make his name more valuable and himself more famous. And I do believe he thought he could make money out of this run. He tried. Turns out it isn't as easy as it looks. Policy is HARD. Campaigning is HARD. Memorizing facts is HARD. And on top of everything else getting money out of people when you claim to be a billionaire is very, very HARD.

So Yeah he won the nomination. But looking at his fundraising it has been torturous and even though he has run a "tightship" turns out there are still a lot of bills to pay and by the way a tightship in an American Presidential campaign means losing. Think about it. He has no ground game. He has no money for ads-- and while he is on TV a lot that is not the same. And the RNC was a shit show.

So here we are. I don't think he is doing any fund raising at this point. He can't make money on this campaign and his name is getting tarnished. Turns out it is fun to be in front of crowds and receive cheers but the people coming to his rallies are not the type of investors he needs to attract. Also they won't be buying condos from him.

As to anyone who follows, they will have to hit the ground running and have money in the bank. They would be so behind at this point there would be no possibility of catching up. Meanwhile Clinton has $50 million or more in the bank to start rolling out negative ads just as soon as someone puts themselves forward. Cruz is too smart to jump in this late in the game. Pence? Nobody voted for him and he is a hard right Christian noted for his extreme views on women's reproductive choice. Kasich is maybe their best chance but he doesn't have a big war chest and thanks to Trump neither does the RNC. They are fucked as far as the Presidency. The question is only can they get to Trump to quit so they can salvage some of their seats in Congress.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:04 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


Oh. A "lock her up" chant.
posted by Justinian at 1:04 PM on August 3, 2016


Did he just call Hillary Clinton "the founder of ISIS"

Then have a break for a "lock her up" chant

Did that really just happen
posted by schadenfrau at 1:04 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


It's already too late to replace him short of a medical emergency forcing him to drop out.

Even if they threw up some sacrificial lamb who could bring in some massive Super PAC dollars like Romney or Jeb they'd still get crushed in the general election for no reason and you'd still have to deal with the right wing white nationalists that are currently feeling their oats.

The Republican party absolutely know that Trump has to lose in November or they are fucking done because it will be White Nationalist Demogogues from now on otherwise.

Of course if they act too blatantly to stop Trump they also risk pissing off a lot of their base because Trump will almost certainly sell a stab in the back narrative in the most crass and racist way possible and we'll see this critical mass of crazies willing to do all sorts of shit like sign on to Sovereign Citizen movements and other sorts of right wing fringe movements.
posted by vuron at 1:04 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump raised $80M last month

Where did you get that? His campaing said 36M. That's quite a difference in numbers.
posted by DreamerFi at 1:05 PM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


Many, many, many people have many different forms of mental illness that they are coping with, and comparing them to Trump because he's an outrageous asshole is very hurtful.

That's not what people are doing – but more to the point, the matter was already discussed extensively in the previous thread. The mods suggested leaving it where it is. MetaTalk is there if you need it.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 1:05 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Are people accusing Trump himself of being anti-Semitic, or just his Twitter troll followers? There's definitely a cloud of people who seem to revel in being offensive hovering around his social media presence. Trump himself seems to have gone through the usual pro-Jewish / pro-Israel motions that one would expect from a GOP candidate.

Apart from the regular retweeting of neo-Nazis and use of their propoganda, there's stuff like this:
“Stupidly, you want to give me money,” he began. But he added that “you’re not going to support me because I don’t want your money,” suggesting that Jews are unwilling to back people whose purse-strings they can’t control, a classic anti-Semitic trope.
[...]
“I’m a negotiator, like you folks,” he said while discussing what he considers to be the failures of the recent nuclear deal struck with Iran.
and this:
In a 1991 book, one of Trump's former colleagues recalled him saying, "Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are little short guys that wear yarmulkes every day." (Trump called the things written about him in the book "probably true.")
or this incredible indifference to the anti-Semitism of his followers:
[Wolf] Blitzer pressed Trump, “But the anti-Semitic death threats that have followed...” Trump interrupted, “Oh, I don't know about that. I don't know anything about that. You mean fans of mine?”

Blitzer responded, “Supposed fans of posting these very angry—but your message to these fans is?”

This is the moment at which Trump should’ve clearly condemned the anti-Semitic comments. And if Trump were a true leader, he would’ve encouraged his “fans” to stop spewing such hate.

But he didn’t. Instead Trump responded: “I don’t have a message to the fans.” And then, astoundingly, he attacked Ioffe again. “A woman wrote an article that’s inaccurate.”

In Trump’s first day after effectively wrapping up the GOP nomination, he has again failed to make it clear that there’s no place for bigotry and hate on his behalf.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:05 PM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


(and H got 63M. The DNC pulled in another $26 million, making the total almost $90 million, still a larger number than "80")
posted by DreamerFi at 1:06 PM on August 3, 2016


okay who here is wrestling with the urge to punch the dude bro with dark widely gesticulating behind el trumpo
posted by angrycat at 1:07 PM on August 3, 2016


Donald is saying the campaign has never been so united.

Yes, well, that's obvious from the fact that Pence has now endorsed Paul Ryan.
posted by O Sock My Sock at 1:07 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Once Bernie endorsed, I expected him to take that endorsement seriously, and actually stump for Hillary, not try to spin off his own separate thing before we've even got a new President

You thought better of him than I did.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:07 PM on August 3, 2016 [15 favorites]


I don't care if it's a horrifying loss in November, as long as it's not Trump. I don't care if you put a Republican show salesman in his place. Just get the clown out of here!
posted by corb at 1:07 PM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


I meant shoe salesman but actually still appropriate.
posted by corb at 1:07 PM on August 3, 2016 [20 favorites]


Donald is saying the campaign has never been so united.

why does he think this is a brag? it's like the fucking bare minimum for any political org.
posted by murphy slaw at 1:08 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Where did you get that? His campaing said 36M. That's quite a difference in numbers.

The NYT is reporting that Drumpf raised $82MM in July.
posted by O Sock My Sock at 1:08 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


what the flying fuck is he talking about I really haven't been able to follow this. Iran? Tapes? All this cash? What is the narrative thread here?
posted by angrycat at 1:09 PM on August 3, 2016


I'm truly terrified of what he's inciting with the way he talks about Hillary.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:09 PM on August 3, 2016 [14 favorites]


Rambles about Yemen; senses the crowd is getting bored; comments on how many people are in the audience. Big cheers!
posted by mochapickle at 1:10 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


He's not having a good speech, is he? Seems even more rambling and worn-out than usual. Can't make head or tail of what he's on about.
posted by Devonian at 1:10 PM on August 3, 2016


Of note, CNN (after about 5 minutes) and MSNBC have now both broken away from covering Trump rambling on.
posted by cashman at 1:11 PM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


It's kind of a shame for Republicans that Ed O'Neil basically plays Republicans in almost all his roles but is actually a big Democrat.

Because you could actually have Al Bundy for President Corb if you could convince him to switch parties.
posted by vuron at 1:11 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


He loves protestors (they just threw somebody out) because without them you can't see his yuuuuge crowds. "But when you have protesters, the cameras, they turn like pretzels. They turn like pretzels."
posted by Don Pepino at 1:13 PM on August 3, 2016


"Wouldn't it be embarrassing to lose to crooked Hillary Clinton? That'd be terrible!"

There's your election-night soundbite right there.
posted by Imperfect at 1:13 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


"Wouldn't that be embarrassing to lose to Crooked Hillary Clinton? That would be terrible."
posted by zachlipton at 1:13 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


I feel like it's really telling that Trump says Hillary "shouldn't be allowed to run." Like, if "we" had our way, we could still tell women (and minorities) what they are allowed to do.
posted by snofoam at 1:13 PM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


Trump is reiterating that this will have been a waste of time if they don't make it all the way.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:14 PM on August 3, 2016


Ha!!! The Rucker doing the interview/on the video is Philip Rucker, who I went to high school with. Nice job, dude!
posted by phunniemee at 1:14 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump raised $80M last month, more than Hilary Clinton, although she ended up netting more money in July.

Not really. Broken out, Trump raised $64m in direct donations and $16m (which must be shared between the Trump campaign, the RNC, and states) in fundraising, versus Clinton's $63m and $26m, respectively. More importantly, as of Monday, Clinton had $58m cash on hand compared to Trump's $37m.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:14 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


He's laying the groundwork to drop out!
posted by R.F.Simpson at 1:14 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


You know, I may be unpopular for saying this, but I wish he wouldn't do this right now. The election is not yet won, we still have Trump to beat. At this moment, we need left/liberals to stand together. Once Bernie endorsed, I expected him to take that endorsement seriously, and actually stump for Hillary, not try to spin off his own separate thing before we've even got a new President. This just gives Bernie-or-Busters more ammunition for thinking that Bernie agrees with them regarding not voting for Hillary.

I suspect that people who are serious about Bernie's platform are actually going to feel better if there's something they can do during the run-up to the election. Seeing Bernie do nothing but stump for Hillary would make the whole thing feel like a sham. "I really care about this cause, my candidate isn't the nominee but here is a channel through which I can work - a channel which pretty much requires a Democratic victory because we won't get a damn thing out of Trump" seems like it's designed to keep people engaged. "My candidate lost, there was some impropriety even though it did not cause that loss and now I am expected to turn on a dime and go With Her" would really make me want to drop out, frankly.
posted by Frowner at 1:14 PM on August 3, 2016 [36 favorites]


And while you might assume like I did, that Fox News is covering it, they aren't. Of course they have Pat Buchanan on right now, so..
posted by cashman at 1:14 PM on August 3, 2016


Cameras turn like pretzels, apparently. Something to do with Bernie supporters. He's saying a lot of Bernie.

And he's going to get rid of Obama. Should have checked that constitution.
posted by Devonian at 1:14 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Orange Julius Caesar

I gotta object to this one, as it gives Trump too much credit. No way he could keep a triumvirate together for any amount of time.
posted by EatTheWeak at 1:14 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


Because you could actually have Al Bundy for President Corb if you could convince him to switch parties.

I'm now imagining NO MA'AM's thoughts on this election and it is actually quite easy to do.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:14 PM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


You mean MSNBC and CNN are actually realizing that giving Trump free airtime every day is a bad business model?

If Trump wants to run daily political Ads he should have to pay for commercials like everyone else instead of just scheduling a daily rally and getting like 10x the time in free unpaid coverage.

At a certain point in time the cable news networks need to realize that while Trump might be good for ratings he's undermining their whole business model of actually getting people to pay for advertising.
posted by vuron at 1:15 PM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


some sacrificial lamb who could bring in some massive Super PAC dollars like Romney or Jeb

I recognize this is one of my broken record things, but I question the idea that either of these two failed candidates can command massive dollars. Both lost. Romney in the final contest and Jeb barely made it out of the gate. Big money like the Kochs aren't backing Trump because he's toxic and because he can't be trusted to advocate their interests. But they're no more interested in throwing dollars at someone who is ideologically in line with them but completely unable to make anything happen on their behalf. Whether you think of them as purely financially motivated or true believers, big donors are in it for the results. Romney and Jeb Bush have a proven track record of not getting them.
posted by phearlez at 1:16 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


"Donald Trump measures your value by what's in your heart" says an incredibly white man I don't recognize.

Pretty sure that Trump would measure my value by looking at my legs, my boobs, my butt, and my face in that order.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:16 PM on August 3, 2016 [25 favorites]


The thing about Bernie is that he could point out just how much he stands to gain if they flip the Senate. Ranking majority member of the Senate Budget Committee. Seven target states and they need to flip four?
posted by Francis at 1:17 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


Cameras turn like pretzels, apparently.

what the holy hell
posted by murphy slaw at 1:17 PM on August 3, 2016


"You have airports in the Middle East the likes of which you've never seen in our country."

This is a man obsessed with airports.

"You'll see trains that go hundreds of miles an hour. Clump, Clump, Clump."
posted by winna at 1:17 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Live Stream Rules:

"X. Be respectful to woman"

Like they have to be told. Yikes.
posted by Yowser at 1:18 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


He's not having a good speech, is he? Seems even more rambling and worn-out than usual. Can't make head or tail of what he's on about.

Honestly, this is just about exactly as rambling as usual for his rally speeches. He consistently wanders, mid-sentence, from topic to topic, gets distracted by another thought or the desire for some applause, takes strange winding detours between the setup and the landing line of a given talking point. It's a reactive, stumbling mush of greatest hits and the daily updates that works to the extent that it does mostly on the strength of his unwavering self-assurance. It's the same show every time.

I'm deep enough into the same quadrennial election madness cycle I get into every time that I have to fight the urge to watch a livestream Because It's There, but at this point with Trump rallies I've seen enough already that I've been surprised by everything of overarching substance and character that I'm going to be; the weird specific details of any given one I can catch up on in highlights later. I don't really need the daily grief, so I've turned this off and will try harder not to turn on the next one.
posted by cortex at 1:18 PM on August 3, 2016 [20 favorites]


Trump is telling us our fighter jets are old because he "watched a documentary" the other day.
posted by zachlipton at 1:18 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm the one who said I can't fathom Jews supporting Trump. Not because he is anti-Semitic, although his repeated remarks about Jews being great with money are very much in that mode and offensive. I think Trump's hatreds (for example toward Muslims, immigrants, people of color) are aimed at different folks.

But he is indeed a hater, a person who has no respect for democracy or the rule of law or treaties, a man who is reckless beyond belief about the use of force and torture, and a would be dictator. And I think people with recent experience of a Holocaust should get why these things are so bad.


I have a few family members who are Republican who are having a real problem with this election cycle. They are convinced Hillary Clinton will be terrible for Israel. They point to the Iran nuclear deal, her statement while Secretary that she regretted that the US was not a signatory to the International Criminal Court treaty, President Obama's difficulties with Netanyahu and his position on the West Bank settlements. They think that only a Republican administration will support Israel unconditionally. Of course, only one President in the last 25 years has cut off loan guarantees to Israel: George H.W. Bush. And Dubya threatened to do the same while he was President. But they remain convinced.

But at the same time, they realize Trump is a thin-skinned, ignorant fascist who embraces hatred, racism and bigotry. And they look at his statements about Muslims and think, "We could be next." So they'll either vote for Clinton or stay home. I don't think any of them have decided which yet.
posted by zarq at 1:19 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


okay I can't listen anymore but this man is having too much fun to be actually invested in what is going on in the race. He's either high and/or only looking for attention. He really does not give a fucking shit, I think, whether he loses, as long as he can spin some sort of narrative that soothes his ego and gives him attention.
posted by angrycat at 1:19 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


"We're gonna have a serious wall."
posted by winna at 1:19 PM on August 3, 2016


Certainly if Trump was a member of the triumvirate he'd be Crassus instead of Pompey or Gaius Julius.

Pompey and Caesar were actually competent which is giving way too much credit to Trump. Crassus on the other hand was powerful mainly based upon his wealth gained as a landlord.
posted by vuron at 1:20 PM on August 3, 2016 [14 favorites]


Dude's tripping balls ...
posted by ZenMasterThis at 1:20 PM on August 3, 2016


"They used the F-bomb on live television!"
posted by winna at 1:20 PM on August 3, 2016


Also, saying that the space program is like a third world nation. And the Middle East has trains that go at hundreds of miles an hour. Not sixty. And the space program again. Look at it. Look at it.

He's just spewing things out as they occur to him.

I'm completely lost.
posted by Devonian at 1:20 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


what the flying fuck is he talking about I really haven't been able to follow this. Iran? Tapes? All this cash? What is the narrative thread here?

Trump's statements just now were on the wrong side of comprehensible -- I'm not sure what he was going on about with 'who knows where they money is going - not to the people of Iran' (paraphrased) or the long aside about how 'beautifully' it was filmed and how 'no one looked awkward on the camera' and how 'Iran leaked the tape' -- but the campaign's prior statements have been, basically, 'Clinton/Obama traded money for hostages, they just bribed Iran.'

Which is, well, CNN --
President Barack Obama approved the $400 million transfer, which was the first payment of a $1.7 billion settlement resolving claims at an international tribunal at The Hague over a failed arms deal under the time of the Shah...

Because existing US sanctions ban American dollars from being used in a transaction with Iran, officials said the money was procured from central banks in Switzerland and the Netherlands, and an unmarked cargo plane loaded with wooden pallets of Swiss francs, euros and other currencies were flown to Iran. The payment required hard currency, they said, because Iran could not access the global financial system due to international sanctions it was under at the time. The details of the transaction were first reported by The Wall Street Journal. "They were totally cut off from global banks and there was no other way to get them the money," one senior official with knowledge of the transaction said.

While the transaction took place the same day as the release of Jason Rezaian and three other Americans, officials insist the payment did not constitute ransom for the Americans and that there were was no quid pro quo for the payment. They say agreement on the release of the prisoners dovetailed with the resolution of parallel negotiations over the dispute of the failed arms deal.
In short: Trump's claims do not (shockingly) hold up under scrutiny.
posted by cjelli at 1:20 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


"He used to say 'There's no way we'll have a wall.' Now he's saying there's no way they'll pay for the wall! So that means he thinks it's going to happen!"
posted by winna at 1:21 PM on August 3, 2016


"... they said heroin ... they said heroin ... they said heroin ..."
posted by ZenMasterThis at 1:21 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


>Trump raised $80M last month

Where did you get that? His campaing said 36M. That's quite a difference in numbers.


$36M is cash on handwhat's left over after expenses were paid.

My main question was whether or not there was one big donation that helped make up that amount.
posted by My Dad at 1:21 PM on August 3, 2016


"We're going to have a real border. It's going to be a border you'll be proud of."
posted by winna at 1:22 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


"We've gotta stop being the stupid country run by very stupid people. We've gotta stop. We've gotta stop."
posted by Don Pepino at 1:23 PM on August 3, 2016


"We can be politically correct. We can be really nice. [...] We've got to stop."
posted by winna at 1:23 PM on August 3, 2016


Is this the first time some of you guys have ever heard him give a rally speech? Because I agree that this is about as rambling as always, maybe better than average based on the ones I've seen, just bouncing between whatever topics occur to him. This one at least has semi-coherent sections and he's not getting quite as sidetracked as normal.
posted by zachlipton at 1:23 PM on August 3, 2016 [14 favorites]


Listening to the words coming out of his mouth, I'm finding it hard to guess what (if anything) is on the pieces of paper he keeps turning over.
posted by uosuaq at 1:24 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


He talks about how the media is lying about how his crowds are so great, asks the cameras to pan behind him. The camera doesn't budge.
posted by winna at 1:24 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yeah, this is par for the course with his rally speeches.
posted by zarq at 1:24 PM on August 3, 2016


These people who keep saying that Trump says what "we're" all thinking, it's pretty clear that their concept of "we" is really limited to a very pure, specific group of people.

I am not in that "we" by definition, because I do not look like them, talk like them, work like them, church like them, or love like them.

It should be no surprise that Trump isn't saying anything that I'm thinking.
posted by qcubed at 1:25 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


"She will put people [on the Supreme Court] SO FAR LEFT it will be like Venezuela. Big Venezuela."
posted by winna at 1:26 PM on August 3, 2016


So when is Trump going to drop some top secret information in his wordpasta rallies? And would we even be able to tell? I mean he's dropping so much crazy shit that he could start revealing top secret intelligence briefing material and nobody would know other than the National Security briefers.

And what could Obama do? Prosecute him for revealing national secrets? That would totally play into the Trump campaign's rhetoric.
posted by vuron at 1:26 PM on August 3, 2016


Trump is telling us our fighter jets are old because he "watched a documentary" the other day.

Which is doubly weird because he told that exact same anecdote in at least one speech before the convention, I think -- I've definitely heard him relate that story before.

It's also dumb in that reusing parts is entirely sensible. We started doing this in the aftermath of the 2nd World War because, you know, we needed more planes during the war than after, so why not park the planes we don't need and use them for parts?

We bought and provisioned a tremendous number of plane during and in the immediate aftermath of the Cold War; a huge number of those planes were retired before the end of their lifespan because we didn't need them anymore, and rather than, say, trashing them, we actually stored them specifically so that we could either refurbish them, if needed, or use them for parts, if not. It was smart, forward-thinking planning to do that; it's not idiocy to follow through on that plan. This has been part of US military planning for more than half a century.

But I heard Trump watched a documentary once, though, so.
posted by cjelli at 1:26 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


He's claiming we could have up to five Supreme Court Justices nominated during his term. I think the existing Justices better start having someone taste their food.
posted by zachlipton at 1:26 PM on August 3, 2016 [53 favorites]


Is this the first time some of you guys have ever heard him give a rally speech? Because I agree that this is about as rambling as always

This right here is why I'm not worried about Trump's numbers going up as the general election ramps up - because most people still haven't actually heard his rambling whackadoodle speeches, and literally cannot believe what they are hearing when they finally do.
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:26 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


A long (but good) essay about why so many poor white people support Trump and other racist causes

Excellent articles like this makes me rage to no end. Everyone always scoff when I try to reason that corporations are the real reason we're in this shit, but research like this is rarely read by those who need to read it the most.
posted by numaner at 1:26 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]




All right, the blood thing, the dancing thing, and the groveling thing will no doubt be next. But what about that baby yesterday, D.?
posted by Don Pepino at 1:28 PM on August 3, 2016


Holy goodness, what is he even saying?

He sounds like he's having a stroke or something? The ends of his sentences don't match the start and...

Blood coming from Hillary's face, then disabled people, then reporters, then people dancing...

He's even more disjointed than he normally sounds, is he okay?
posted by Imperfect at 1:29 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


at this point he would probably lose by fewer percentage points if they just locked him in a hotel room without internet access until november
posted by murphy slaw at 1:30 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


is he okay?

The answer to that has never been 'yes'
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:30 PM on August 3, 2016 [31 favorites]


This right here is why I'm not worried about Trump's numbers going up as the general election ramps up - because most people still haven't actually heard his rambling whackadoodle speeches, and literally cannot believe what they are hearing when they finally do.

There is a subset of people with whom this resonates though. Republicans have been doing the same schtick for years and Trump is just the latest who boasts that he's not scripted or polished and only says what's in his heart. His imperfect delivery makes him seem like an everyday guy. Not like those fake, lying politicians in Washington.
posted by zarq at 1:30 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


He's even more disjointed than he normally sounds, is he okay?

No, this is actually par for the course when he's not reading off a teleprompter.
posted by cjelli at 1:30 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm not able to parse this at all. It's like a speech, where someone's randomly cut up the bits and spliced them together any old way.

Did he even say what the yuge lie Hillary said on nationwide TV at the weekend that the MSM ignored?
posted by Devonian at 1:30 PM on August 3, 2016


I wonder if all the contractors he owes money to will ever get together to file a class action suit to gain said money owed.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:31 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


It's a reactive, stumbligh mush of greatest hits and the daily updates

It's a sign of my respect for cortex that instead of just reading over this as a typo, I opened up my Shorter OED app to look the word up. It's a sign of my general level of despair that I can barely handle that it was just a typo.
posted by OmieWise at 1:31 PM on August 3, 2016 [15 favorites]


Sweet baby Jeebus, I've heard more coherent things out of the mouth of Courtney Love. This is nuts.
posted by teleri025 at 1:31 PM on August 3, 2016 [14 favorites]


There is a subset of people with whom this resonates though.

Yeah of course, I never said he'd get 0% of the votes, just that he's not gonna ADD voters to his constituency this way and will definitely lose at least SOME of them.
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:31 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Wow, did Trump not hear about Ailes getting shitcanned by Fox News? You do not fuck with Megyn Kelly.

Of course this is the same person that thinks it's okay to smear the grieving Muslim parents of a war hero so maybe he never learned not to touch fire.

Owww that burns, let me see if doing it again has the same result, ad infinitum.
posted by vuron at 1:32 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Protestors should just start protesting by bringing babies to Trump rallies.
posted by drezdn at 1:32 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


Orange Julius Caesar

I gotta object to this one, as it gives Trump too much credit. No way he could keep a triumvirate together for any amount of time.


Orange July Employee of the Month would still be giving him too much credit.
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:32 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


I can not recommend enough the Twitter feed of Daniel Dale from the Toronto Star right now.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:32 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


This election is effecting my productivity, it's hard to write light historic comedy when you think the world is ending

Tell me about it. I'm so close to finishing my third urban fantasy comedy-smut novel, and yet every time I sit down in front of the computer it's a struggle between either turning off the wi-fi or falling down this dumpster fire rabbit hole.

But regardless of what it does for my productivity: Thank you, MeFi and MeFites, for these threads. You've kept me far better informed than any of my usual media habits ever could, and you've helped me keep sane.

...also this fucking year has proved to me that I will never, ever write anything as unrealistic as the reality of 2016.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:33 PM on August 3, 2016 [17 favorites]






Hey - he keeps thinking he's running against Obama. It's weird.

I think he's trying to lie about Scotland, but it's so very hard to tell.
posted by Devonian at 1:34 PM on August 3, 2016


> Instead, his strategy continues to be to attack the victims of the war, instead of his political opponent, who was one of its original perpetrators.

Rated "mostly false."
posted by biogeo at 1:34 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Why? Why is he talking about mocking the disabled reporter? This doesn't make sense. Even less sense than usual. Why?
posted by Justinian at 1:35 PM on August 3, 2016


Orange Julius Caesar Word Salad.
posted by notyou at 1:35 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


The media is biased because he didn't hit a golf ball? That's what we've come to here.
posted by zachlipton at 1:35 PM on August 3, 2016


GOP Gubernatorial Candidate's Latest Ad Is Just Him Shooting a Machine Gun for 20 Seconds

i would very much like to be excluded from this narrative
posted by murphy slaw at 1:35 PM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


I wonder how John Boehner is feeling right now. I picture him sitting out on the porch with a bourbon and a cigar, listening to the cicadas and feeling the warmth. A feeling of freedom because the Trumpsterfire is Somebody Else's Problem. Making a note that we are going to need some more bourbon.
posted by Midnight Skulker at 1:36 PM on August 3, 2016 [30 favorites]


I wonder why Trump just brings up old controversies. Why doesn't he ever mention HRC... ever? It's bizarre. It's like he's a malfunctioning android from a PDK novel.
posted by My Dad at 1:37 PM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


I wonder how John Boehner is feeling right now. I picture him sitting out on the porch with a bourbon and a cigar, listening to the cicadas and feeling the warmth.

No need to wonder! Boehner is indeed chilling. And you are spot on.
posted by Justinian at 1:38 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


I wonder how John Boehner is feeling right now. I picture him sitting out on the porch with a bourbon and a cigar, listening to the cicadas and feeling the warmth. A feeling of freedom because the Trumpsterfire is Somebody Else's Problem. Making a note that we are going to need some more bourbon.

You are indeed very close.
posted by zachlipton at 1:38 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]



Protestors should just start protesting by bringing babies to Trump rallies.

SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN
posted by rp at 1:38 PM on August 3, 2016


Boehner is also probably glad that he's no longer the crazy orange Republican that people are always talking about.
posted by vuron at 1:38 PM on August 3, 2016 [27 favorites]


Re: Jews and the Tangerine Tyrant
My dad and brother are gun nuts and misogynists. They also think it's hella funny when the women in the family bring up anything related to gun safety and they think Hillary is going to confiscate their arms. As I said in a previous thread though, my father's father, who he worshipped, escaped from the SS in Hamburg and would beat my father if he knew that he was voting for a fascist. I will be using that as a long pointy personalized weapon during Rosh Hashanah dinner.
posted by Sophie1 at 1:38 PM on August 3, 2016 [69 favorites]


Yeah of course, I never said he'd get 0% of the votes, just that he's not gonna ADD voters to his constituency this way and will definitely lose at least SOME of them.

I sincerely hope you're right.

But I look at the comments sections of newspapers all the damn time and wonder if even despite all of this, if he could win.
posted by zarq at 1:38 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


i sincerely believe that he thinks that if he keeps bringing these issues up, eventually everyone involved will issue a heartfelt apology to him
posted by murphy slaw at 1:38 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Eeic Grietens is straight out of Idiocracy.
posted by Yowser at 1:39 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Why? Why is he talking about mocking the disabled reporter? This doesn't make sense. Even less sense than usual. Why?

I know we're not supposed to speculate about Trump's mental state but I feel like you are making a pretty big assumption here, namely that Trump has a reason that you or I would perceive as 'rational' for saying any of this shit
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:39 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


"I would have picked a [video of a] bad looking [golf] swing, I have them too." Wow, Trump at the most self-effacing I've ever seen.
posted by glhaynes at 1:40 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Comments sections vastly overrepresent a very tiny slice of the population, namely, those worked up enough to write comments online. The electorate is vastly larger and not as unhinged.
posted by argybarg at 1:40 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


I had to dip out of the stream because my connection was stuttering, and because it was incomprehensible. But my overall impression is that trump is way off his game, and this whole thing is just him relitigating old grudges. No new slogans, no new policy, nothing to fire up his base beyond stoking their indignity. That's not news by any means, but I think after the week he's had he should be aiming for a little more.

Also, he seems doped. I know it's word salad on the best days, but I didn't catch a single complete sentence.
posted by codacorolla at 1:41 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


He just doubled down on his secret plan to fight inflation to win states "Republicans never win."
posted by zarq at 1:41 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


But I look at the comments sections of newspapers all the damn time and wonder if even despite all of this, if he could win.

And if you only looked at the comment sections here, you'd think he had literally zero support. Comment sections tell you squat about squat.
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:41 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


That's not news by any means

and i think that news organizations are starting to realize that
posted by murphy slaw at 1:42 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


We're making the wall out of peanuts now? What happened to the babies?
posted by vverse23 at 1:42 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


"I'm glad John Boehner seems happy" is a thought I just had. I was worried earlier this week that 2016 had killed my empathy but it actually may have just broken me altogether.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:42 PM on August 3, 2016 [62 favorites]


Why is he pointing out that he's employed thousands and thousands of Mexican people over the years? Stay on message, dude!
posted by acidic at 1:43 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Why is he pointing out that he's employed thousands and thousands of Mexican people over the years? Stay on message, dude!

he wants you to appreciate his sacrifice
posted by murphy slaw at 1:43 PM on August 3, 2016 [21 favorites]


Also, he seems doped. I know it's word salad on the best days, but I didn't catch a single complete sentence.

Ibogaine has reared its ugly head in our Presidential campaigns before.
posted by delfin at 1:44 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


widgets and gidgets and gadgets!
posted by acidic at 1:45 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Why is he secretive about the identity of his plant-building friend?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:45 PM on August 3, 2016


Jumping ahead cuz I had to react to this:

I'm watching CNN, and they've just been yammering on about Trump and all that - with a small window in the bottom right to alert the viewer Trump will be on soon. Meanwhile Hillary Clinton is actually speaking.

UGH yes. This is the shit that's been driving me out of my mind. A few weeks ago there was some thing where Drumpy had said some insulting thing about Clinton. CNN went to show Hillary live at a speech, and they put a huge chyron headline below her: "CLINTON RESPONDS TO TRUMP CRITICISM." For the 15 minutes I watched, she did not mention him. Did not respond to anything he'd said. It was a standard campaign appearance speech, scheduled long in advance, but their coverage made HIM the focus.
posted by dnash at 1:46 PM on August 3, 2016 [12 favorites]


So no one else makes the mistake of googling Ibogaine from their work machine, it's apparently in the same class of drugs as Ketamine.
posted by winna at 1:46 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


So people just cheered for a 35% tariff on air conditioners. I'm sure if he instead said "Hillary Clinton is going to raise your taxes; air conditioners will be 35% more expensive," the audience would be chanting "lock her up."
posted by zachlipton at 1:46 PM on August 3, 2016 [16 favorites]


Ibogaine has reared its ugly head in our Presidential campaigns before.

Sometimes I try to imagine what Hunter S. Thompson's descriptions of this campaign season would be like. Then I remember that Trump being within single digits of winning the White House is probably the kind of thing he was thinking of when he killed himself.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:47 PM on August 3, 2016 [16 favorites]


Meanwhile, the mighty woman is organizing her transition team. How refreshingly presidential.

I'd add that I'm happy Bernie is moving ahead with his movement organizing. I think keeping engaged in that way will only help Ds, and help advance the D platform goals.
posted by bearwife at 1:47 PM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


yeah, he's selling import tariffs by saying "we'll make a lot of money". Uh, the government will make a lot of revenue but that doesn't help regular people by default?
posted by murphy slaw at 1:48 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


the cameras, they turn like pretzels. They turn like pretzels.

oh so now he's abandoning the dog community too, I see how it is, I see how it is.
posted by sallybrown at 1:49 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


This is malpractice. Mocking the disabled man is one of the very least popular things Trump has ever done, and he's retelling the story.

You know I like Trump's new stuff but once in a while you just want to hear the hits.
posted by Talez at 1:49 PM on August 3, 2016 [26 favorites]


Donald Trump: The suicide rate for veterans is so high, "I'm not even going to tell you what it is."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:50 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


We're back to the trope of 'people will call me and tell me we're winning too much, but I won't stop winning no matter how much people beg.' It's one of his best hits I think.
posted by zachlipton at 1:51 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


We now return you to your regularly scheduled speed metal.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:51 PM on August 3, 2016


Every single thing Trump says makes me think of the moderator's response from Billy Madison.
posted by guiseroom at 1:51 PM on August 3, 2016 [14 favorites]


I think in general it's smart to assume that most people on the right or the left don't actually have bad intentions they just have a particular perspective based upon their backgrounds and where they are in the world and based upon where they are at during that moment of their life they genuinely feel like one party or the other offers the best set of policies for them and theirs as well as the US as a whole.

I would say that even most politicians tend to operate along similar principles.

However there are other people like the Shouting Orange Dictator who clearly don't see the world in this way. For them the world is about people who either have something you want, or can help get you something you want or are in the way of you getting what you want.

Trump shows a startling lack of empathy, I'm used to sociopathic tendencies being well represented and increasingly well rewarded in the business arena (as well as other areas of life) but at the risk of armchair psychiatry Trump seems like he's a classic sociopath who is at this point so insulated by his own privilege that he doesn't even have to pretend to have the vaguest hint of empathy for the people he savages.
posted by vuron at 1:52 PM on August 3, 2016 [15 favorites]


Trump Edges Close to Clinton With Flood of Donations
Donald J. Trump all but erased his enormous fund-raising deficit against Hillary Clinton in the span of just two months, according to figures released by his campaign on Tuesday, converting the passion of his core followers into a flood of small donations on a scale rarely seen in national politics.

Mr. Trump and the Republican National Committee raised $64 million through a joint digital and direct mail effort in July, according to his campaign, the bulk of it from small donations. All told, Mr. Trump and his party brought in $82 million last month, only slightly behind Mrs. Clinton, and ended with an enormous pool of $74 million in cash on hand, suggesting he might now have the resources to compete with Mrs. Clinton in the closing stretch of the campaign.
posted by zachlipton at 1:52 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


"I want to know who got it, you know, I kind of want to know who delivered it" -- Trump, for the second time in the same speech, implying that the government...isn't actually sending money to Iran? Is paying someone off? What? I can't parse what he's implying.
posted by cjelli at 1:52 PM on August 3, 2016


Now I want to go to a Trump rally, hold up a lighter and yell out "MEXICO ISN'T SENDING ITS BEST AND BRIGHTEST!" and see if he actually does it.
posted by Talez at 1:53 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


Trump: "Stop looking at me, swan."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:54 PM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


"The lying started at 7:27 a.m. and did not stop until after dark. Even for Donald Trump, Monday, Aug. 1, was a banner day for bullshit."
— Olivia Nuzzi, 15 Hours of Donald Trump’s Lies
The first paragraph of the Make A Great American Novel.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:55 PM on August 3, 2016 [30 favorites]


You know what I'm realizing... I actually find it much more disturbing to talk to someone who is relatively nonchalant and shrugging in response to this election, than I do talking to someone who is rabidly pro-Trump or rabidly anti-Clinton.

Just had a conversation of the former sort with an old college friend and out of everything in the last year this is the situation where I feel like I want to start screaming, when I'm talking to someone who I feel should know better than to be complacent and they're just, like, blah. Fortunately I didn't actually start screaming and maybe I'll have something more composed to say to her, rather than just rambling incredulousness, next time we talk.
posted by XMLicious at 1:55 PM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


Bernie or Bust "rigged" rhetoric still being used to say that Clinton will rig the general election. Ugh.
posted by defenestration at 1:55 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


I have a few family members who are Republican who are having a real problem with this election cycle. They are convinced Hillary Clinton will be terrible for Israel. They point to the Iran nuclear deal, her statement while Secretary that she regretted that the US was not a signatory to the International Criminal Court treaty, President Obama's difficulties with Netanyahu and his position on the West Bank settlements. They think that only a Republican administration will support Israel unconditionally. Of course, only one President in the last 25 years has cut off loan guarantees to Israel: George H.W. Bush. And Dubya threatened to do the same while he was President. But they remain convinced.

It's not just this - a non-insignificant percentage of the left is embracing anti-semitism under the umbrella of pro-Palestinian politics. People burned an Israeli flag outside the DNC while praising the intifada. When HRC said she would not compromise Israel's security, there were people who booed. I come from a long, long tradition of religious Jewish lefties (Skokie representing!) and while everyone in my family is pro-Clinton, and see the threat that Trump is actively promising in not distancing himself at all from his anti-semitic supporters, and in his xenophobic spewing, there is also an underlying sense of building worry over the rhetoric I am hearing from fellow Democrats. Including here on Metafilter.

People can't just say "well, he's an anti-Semite, why can't the Jews just realize that?" He is. But anti-semitism is on the rise around the world, and it's also coming from inside the house.

I don't know how many of my right-leaning Jewish friends will vote for Trump in the end; I can't fathom how they possibly could in light of everything he has done and said. But I think they're more likely to stay home than vote for Hillary.
posted by Mchelly at 1:56 PM on August 3, 2016 [23 favorites]


Going with the Iran money thing... oh dear God, they are truly out of ideas, aren't they?
posted by codacorolla at 1:58 PM on August 3, 2016


When HRC said she would not compromise Israel's security, there were people who booed.

Not supporting Israel unconditionally is not the same thing as being anti-Semitic.
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:59 PM on August 3, 2016 [71 favorites]


It's not just this - a non-insignificant percentage of the left is embracing anti-semitism under the umbrella of pro-Palestinian politics. People burned an Israeli flag outside the DNC while praising the intifada.

That's not Antisemitism. That is anti-Israel. It is disingenuous to lump condemnation of the Israeli state with Antisemitism.

Trump is antisemitic, he generally refers to stereotypes about Jews and money.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:00 PM on August 3, 2016 [22 favorites]


Have we ever had an actually crazy president?

Nixon was (strategically?) irrational:

"I call it the Madman Theory, Bob. I want the North Vietnamese to believe I've reached the point where I might do anything to stop the war. We'll just slip the word to them that, "for God's sake, you know Nixon is obsessed about communism. We can't restrain him when he's angry—and he has his hand on the nuclear button" and Ho Chi Minh himself will be in Paris in two days begging for peace"

-- H.R. Haldeman, recalling a conversation between him and Nixon.
posted by Sauce Trough at 2:03 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Going with the Iran money thing... oh dear God, they are truly out of ideas, aren't they?

Not really. He won't want to engage with the story, because it's not the narrative he wants, but he can get a lift from saying 'What's going on here?' at the same time as the news is showing pictures of American money being ladled out of a plane in Iran.

It doesn't matter that it's lies and misdirection, it matters that it makes an emotional impact. And that's all.

I'm living through Brexit. I know this shit.
posted by Devonian at 2:03 PM on August 3, 2016 [15 favorites]


Bernie himself never said "rigged" did he? And he didn't say anything about the vote not agreeing with the exit polls?

I think he made some comments about the DNC's hacked e-mails showing that the DNC really was biased, but not being surprised by that. But I don't think he's questioned the validity of the election process.

I feel like Bernie really needs to come out loud and clear and squash this stupid report published on some guy's google drive with no authors, because I hear people citing these bullshit exit poll percentages all the time on both sides of the aisle and it has the potential to really undermine the legitimacy of our democratic process if people on both sides of the aisle continue to run with it.

Relatedly, what universe do these people live in who believe Bernie would have won the election if not for vote tampering, when he never had any polling leads that would have been remotely consistent with that?
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:03 PM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


You guys are kind of proving my point. Not all anti-Israel sentiment is anti-Semitic. But insisting that none is, or shouting down people who point out that some is, is part of the problem.
posted by Mchelly at 2:04 PM on August 3, 2016 [26 favorites]


but seriously can someone explain the pretzel thing
posted by murphy slaw at 2:06 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Repubs did an actual literal Seig Heil on stage, just saying.
posted by Artw at 2:06 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


You guys are kind of proving my point. Not all anti-Israel sentiment is anti-Semitic. But insisting that none is, or shouting down people who point out that some is, is part of the problem.

QFT. It's kind of amazing, and also kind of scary, how knee jerk that response is becoming.
posted by O Sock My Sock at 2:07 PM on August 3, 2016 [13 favorites]


Pretzel... cookers... rotate?

I got nothing.
posted by selfnoise at 2:08 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


You guys are kind of proving my point. Not all anti-Israel sentiment is anti-Semitic. But insisting that none is, or shouting down people who point out that some is, is part of the problem.

-You said "When HRC said she would not compromise Israel's security, there were people who booed" as an example of "embracing anti-semitism"
-I said "that is not anti-semitism"
-You replied "stop insisting that no anti-Israel sentiment could possibly be anti-semitic" and that I am "shouting you down."

I have no clue how anyone could possibly read my comment that way in good faith.
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:08 PM on August 3, 2016 [54 favorites]


Y'all, if we attempt to re-litigate MeFi "I vs P" or "Is This Antisemitism?" in a 2016 Election Thread, the servers will melt, and then where will we be? Relegated to Twitter? Fark? The brooding ruins of Kuro5hin? Please comment with your conscience.
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:08 PM on August 3, 2016 [67 favorites]


Pretzels twist and turn. The cameras at the rallies are stationary and focused on just a few rows of people. Trump would like the cameras to twist and turn so viewers can see how big the crowds are (which he considers to be the true marker of his success).
posted by mochapickle at 2:08 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


You guys are kind of proving my point. Not all anti-Israel sentiment is anti-Semitic. But insisting that none is, or shouting down people who point out that some is, is part of the problem.

The things you cited are not Antisemitism. If they referred to the Jews specifically, then that would be Antisemitic.

One can think that Israel does not have a right to exist and not be antisemitic. One can think that the Intifata is is good and not be antisemitic.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:09 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


Hillary has been a pretty much Israel-friendly politician her entire career. I'm not sure with this sudden doubt is coming from but it's unfounded.
posted by PenDevil at 2:09 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


Lets definitely argue about Israel.
posted by Justinian at 2:09 PM on August 3, 2016 [67 favorites]


Anyway, in terms of Trump, his supporters are also often antisemitic with that whole ((())) crap on Twitter. Also, Wikileaks is antisemitic based on one of their tweets.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:10 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


you know if he really wants the crowd to look huge he can just jam 200 people into a banquet room at an IHOP
posted by murphy slaw at 2:10 PM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


I was Capt. Khan’s commander in Iraq. The Khan family is our family: "Blue Star families are those with a member deployed to combat in the service of our country. Gold Star families are families that have lost a loved one in a combat zone. In our military culture, we hold Blue Star families in the highest regard. But we have absolute reverence for our Gold Star families. I join all those who stand in support of the Khan family. This family is our family, and any attack on this wonderful American Gold Star family is an attack on all patriotic and loyal Americans who have sacrificed to make our country great. Any politically or racially motivated attack on the Khans is despicable and un-American.

Though I am a Republican, I have voted my conscience — for both Democrats and Republicans — for the past 32 years. I’m going to vote my conscience again this year. We live in a dangerous and complex world. We need leaders who are steady, patient and empathetic, especially at the national level, during this troubled time. We need somebody who has respect for our Gold Star families."
posted by acidic at 2:10 PM on August 3, 2016 [60 favorites]


[Boy gosh howdy does stumbling sideways into a general argument about antisemitism not feel like something that's going to go well or improve this thread. Please let's let that be at this point.]
posted by cortex at 2:11 PM on August 3, 2016 [61 favorites]


The brooding ruins of Kuro5hin?

K5 died. It's a domain parking page now.

Anyway, in terms of Trump, his supporters are also often antisemitic with that whole ((())) crap on Twitter. Also, Wikileaks is antisemitic based on one of their tweets.

FYI, when you see ((())) around the name of a person's Twitter handle it's a sign of solidarity.
posted by Talez at 2:11 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


What does Israel (a total red herring and derail here) have to do with whether or not Trump is Antisemitic? When Julia Ioffe profiled Melania Trump for GQ, for example, she was tormented by the most foul antisemitic crap. Antisemitism in the Trump campaign is a real problem. I'm really surprised anyone would doubt this.
posted by My Dad at 2:11 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


but seriously can someone explain the pretzel thing

Pretzel... cookers... rotate? I got nothing.


Pretzel Logic.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:11 PM on August 3, 2016


Pretzel... cookers... rotate?

When journalists see protestors, they turn their cameras and microphones around so quickly to get tape of them that they tie themselves up like pretzels. I thought it was kind of a clever image.
posted by roll truck roll at 2:12 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


K5 died. It's a domain parking page now.

Exactly.
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:13 PM on August 3, 2016


Pretzel... cookers... rotate?

I got nothing.


Oh, come on -- it makes at least as much sense as the "like a dog" thing.
posted by O Sock My Sock at 2:14 PM on August 3, 2016


"If we look at the techniques of totalitarian government, it is obvious that the argument of 'the lesser evil'...is one of the mechanisms built into the machinery of terror and criminality. Acceptance of lesser evils is consciously used in conditioning the government officials as well as the population at large to the acceptance of evil as such...Politically, the weakness of the argument has always been that those who choose the lesser evil forget very quickly that they chose evil."
The context matters here. Arendt, if I remember, was talking about Jews who collaborated in WWII by supplying lists of jews to go to the camps, because they believed that by having control over the lists they could save some Jews, while if the Germans had control, everyone would die.

This a whole order of magnitude different a 'lesser evil' than voting for Clinton. I mean, unless you want to violently overthrow the US gov't, there are no viable alternatives within the existing political order to prevent the catastrophe of the GOP controlling all three branches of gov't besides a Clinton victory in November.


The problem with this argument is that it commits the same technical maneuver. To assert "This is a whole order of magnitude different" is literally the same rationalization: it's less of an issue now, therefore it's is justified. The lesser evil is much less, so let's dismiss the concern and the philosophical relevance.

The context "matters" (to whom?), but that's no logical reason to relegate Arendt's point to history. The psychological technique, the phenomenon, is not restricted: Arendt explicitly says, "If we look at the techniques of totalitarian government"; the only way to read this opening correctly is as a piece of political philosophy, making a general point of wisdom about how societies work. It is philosophically incorrect to construe Arendt's intent as only talking about this in the context of Jewish collaborators in a previous era, or that the stakes were totally different. If anything, Arendt's point was a critique of their choice, e.g. in their capacity as officials, in particular the ways their choice presented ideological risks for themselves and the population at large. It doesn't make sense to dismiss the critique; rather, the point is to account for it and incorporate it in strategy.

It is better, but much harder when we try to apply such criticism upon ourselves and our allies, not some Other, since human beings, understandably, have a tendency to not want to do that. Applying old philosophy is necessarily a creative process; that's why talking about this is hard. The salience of Arendt's quote is not the particularities of history, or totalitarianism per se, or the specific mechanisms of social manipulation. What's relevant to today is the psychological analysis in these lines: "Acceptance of lesser evils is consciously used in conditioning the government officials as well as the population at large to the acceptance of evil as such...Politically, the weakness of the argument has always been that those who choose the lesser evil forget very quickly that they chose evil."

Chomsky wrote about manufactured consent almost 30 years ago, and that had conceptual similarities to Arendt's above. Some contemporary researchers do not reject Chomsky's idea, but adapt his arguments to the modern context. For example, some say that the problem of control of thought and information hasn't lessened but rather become internalized, due to and in parallel with the decentralization of communications infrastructure.

In the Jewish collaborators' shoes, the two evils were (simplistically) "harm some Jews" versus "harm all Jews/Holocaust". Arendt is saying, that, by itself, is the wrong framework. He's saying, that's buying into the framework of terror, because the distorted outcome is the conditioning, the reflexive acceptance of "it's okay to harm some Jews", a thought that serves the greater evil. Politically, those who chose the lesser evil quickly forget the little bit of evil that was there. That's why Arendt says it's a weak argument, an appeal to false choice.

The good news is there's a practical fix. Someone else already quoted Chomsky above: what may work well is doing the tactical vote, but then also necessarily returning efforts to and attention on the other leftist issues. That's something that leftists can and should do. Not doing this latter part is what exposes progressives to Arendt's critique. People who don't identify as leftists could try to understand this better.
posted by polymodus at 2:14 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


"I want to watch television. I want to watch Ivory Snow, I want to see cereal, something, Kellogg, something anything." -- is apparently something Trump just said. This, I believe.
posted by acidic at 2:15 PM on August 3, 2016 [17 favorites]


Haha I assume the ibogaine reference was actually intended to be a Iocane Princess Bride reference.

It was not.
posted by delfin at 2:15 PM on August 3, 2016


It seems to me that there is little chance of Trump being able to nuke anything or anyone on a whim.

There absolutely is a chance. The only requirement is that the president and the defense secretary agree.


This is incorrect. There is no requirement that the defense secretary agree with the President. The defense secretary's only role is to verify the identity and authenticity of the order from the President. It is not within the legal power of the secretary to question the order itself.

That is not to say that a secretary couldn't refuse, but then he would be violating his duty and would be removed and replaced.
posted by JackFlash at 2:16 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


vuron 4 mefi prez!
posted by Talez at 2:17 PM on August 3, 2016


Did he just call Hillary Clinton "the founder of ISIS"

Yes, yes he did. The kind of thing that would have sunk a candidacy a year ago. What the fuck.
posted by sallybrown at 2:18 PM on August 3, 2016 [25 favorites]


"I want to watch television. I want to watch Ivory Snow, I want to see cereal, something, Kellogg, something anything." -- is apparently something Trump just said. This, I believe.

[kissing fingers, Italian-chef-style]
posted by penduluum at 2:18 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Tell me about it. I'm so close to finishing my third urban fantasy comedy-smut novel, and yet every time I sit down in front of the computer it's a struggle between either turning off the wi-fi or falling down this dumpster fire rabbit hole.

Okay well I bought the first one now so if I really love it and blaze through the second I'll be sending you prodding memails demanding you quit reading politics threads and get back to work. Now I just need someone to keep me on the straight and narrow for my dodged work, but it's making me so unhappy I'd find something different to screw off with if it wasn't this...
posted by phearlez at 2:18 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


That is not to say that a secretary couldn't refuse, but then he would be violating his duty and would be removed and replaced.

...which is exactly what Blue Jello Elf said in literally the next sentence:

If the defense secretary disagrees, the president can fire the defense secretary and ask his deputy...
posted by escape from the potato planet at 2:19 PM on August 3, 2016


Has there even been an Ivory Snow ad on TV within the past 30 years?
posted by mochapickle at 2:19 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


"I want to watch television. I want to watch Ivory Snow, I want to see cereal, something, Kellogg, something anything."

I complained about this in the last thread - we need [Fake] tags. This can't possibly be happening. Has the world gone mad?
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:20 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


posted by Rumple there is little chance of Trump being able to nuke anything or anyone on a whim.

Remember, Trump has discussed shooting people who don't vote for him:

"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters." --Donald Trump, 23 January 2016

VOTE TRUMP OR DIE!
posted by mattdidthat at 2:20 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


"I want to watch television. I want to watch Ivory Snow, I want to see cereal, something, Kellogg, something anything." -- is apparently something Trump just said. This, I believe.

In fairness this actually makes some sense in context, he was complaining about all the anti-Trump ads in Florida and how they're overwhelming all the 'normal' ads. (Maybe he should have bought some ad time!)
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:21 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


OMG it's real. I ...
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:21 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


okay i'm calling it, trump is one of the sizzler sisters
posted by murphy slaw at 2:21 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


That is not to say that a secretary couldn't refuse, but then he would be violating his duty and would be removed and replaced.

And during that time while Trump goes down the line of people willing to quit instead of start a nuclear war over a tweet, the VP and cabinet exercise section 4 of the 25th amendment.
posted by Talez at 2:22 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


Has there even been an Ivory Snow ad on TV within the past 30 years?

I'm guessing not. I'm a millennial and I have no idea what Ivory Snow is.
posted by joedan at 2:22 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


I complained about this in the last thread - we need [Fake] tags. This can't possibly be happening. Has the world gone mad?

One small-handed part of it, yes.
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:22 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Drumpfsterfire 2016
posted by bstreep at 2:22 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


> Remember, Trump has discussed shooting people who don't vote for him

That is a strange way to read that quote.
posted by savetheclocktower at 2:23 PM on August 3, 2016 [13 favorites]


Trumpenfraude
posted by mattdidthat at 2:23 PM on August 3, 2016


I'm 39 and I have no idea what Ivory Snow is.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 2:23 PM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


Hey what did Gongrich say about Trump? I'm at the gym and CNN is reporting something like Clinton is a better choice than Trump?!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:23 PM on August 3, 2016


Wouldn't it be great if Trump just used his ad buys for cereal spots?
posted by ckape at 2:23 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


I believe it's powdered Ivory soap used for washing machines?
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:25 PM on August 3, 2016


posted by savetheclocktower That is a strange way to read that quote.

Not at all. If Donald Trump kills someone, and he doesn't lose any voters, then the person he killed was not a Trump voter.
posted by mattdidthat at 2:25 PM on August 3, 2016 [21 favorites]


Ivory Snow was the first porno Marilyn Chambers was in
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:26 PM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


i uh think you might be stretching the text a bit there
posted by murphy slaw at 2:26 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


That is a strange way to read that quote.

I never thought of it this way but it's strictly implied by the quote. Because if he was shooting one of his voters he would lose a voter.
posted by dis_integration at 2:26 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


If elected Mefi President for Life I promise to have the Stanley Cup do a tour of Canada so that our Canadian brothers and sisters would be given a chance to gaze upon their birthright which has been stolen by American interlopers for far too long.

In return I ask only that Canada provide proof that Justin Trudeau is actually a native Canadian with the release of a birth certificate. If Canada fails to offer legitimate proof of their possession of Trudeau we shall be forced to assume that he is a nationless person and thereby subject to involuntary naturalization procedures.
posted by vuron at 2:27 PM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


Trump also said in that speech that "those people that knocked down the World Trade Center most likely under the Trump policy wouldn't have been here to knock down the World Trade Center just so you understand."

This wasn't even a point he was making. He just threw that out there on his way to complaining that he wasn't trying to mock the reporter with disabilities.
posted by sallybrown at 2:27 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Ivory Snow commercials on Youtube. There's one from 1987 but the vast majority are from the 50s and 60s, though that may say more about Youtube than about the actual prevalence of Ivory Snow ads through the decades.

Why am I even talking about this, the election has broken me
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:27 PM on August 3, 2016 [33 favorites]


Not at all. If Donald Trump kills someone, and he doesn't lose any voters, then the person he killed was not a Trump voter

Or, he could kill someone and people would still find him electable, I thought was his original point.
posted by mudpuppie at 2:27 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


I think the quote can also be read to indicate his extreme unpopularity in New York City. There are unlikely to be any Trump voters in the middle of 5th Ave.
posted by zachlipton at 2:28 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


oh god i just figured it out

he's not running for president

he's a spoken word jam band
posted by murphy slaw at 2:28 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


I'm starting to piece something together in my head but I'm not sure what.

1. Trump won't release his tax returns and there is rampant speculation he isn't worth what he says he is.
2. At his Comedy Central roast, jokes about the above were off limits.
3. Trump has claimed in interviews that the largest part of his net worth is the brand value of the "Trump" name, which he grossly overestimates.

So, could this all be an attempt to increase the Trump brand value through publicity by dominating the news cycles for the better part of a year? Is he headed for insolvency without it?
posted by rocket88 at 2:28 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


"Listening to the words coming out of his mouth, I'm finding it hard to guess what (if anything) is on the pieces of paper he keeps turning over."

I suspect mostly pictures of himself.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 2:29 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


I can't even begin to wrap my head around a man that says incest jokes about his daughter are fine, but better not mock his net worth!
posted by corb at 2:30 PM on August 3, 2016 [56 favorites]


Keep in mind that the thing we just watched was billed as a town hall event. He showed up an hour late and answered no questions. Once again, something unremarked upon by the media which would typically at least grab headlines if not rule the narrative for a week.
posted by codacorolla at 2:30 PM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


posted by mudpuppie Or, he could kill someone and people would still find him electable, I thought was his original point.

Well, one less person would find him electable.
posted by mattdidthat at 2:30 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


I've been worried about the debates since Yam became the Republican front-runner. I worry that either he will refuse to debate, or that he will just be so off the wall that effective responses will be difficult for his opponent. It sounds like it will turn out to be a combination.
posted by zennie at 2:30 PM on August 3, 2016


Or, he could kill someone and people would still find him electable, I thought was his original point.

well that's a much more charitable reading
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:31 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


So when is Trump going to drop some top secret information in his wordpasta rallies? And would we even be able to tell?

I'm increasingly convinced they probably haven't/won't tell him anything that's actually that sensitive in those meetings. What would be the point? Trump really won't ever know the difference, anyway. They could feed him stuff a second-year college student could dig up for a research paper and as long as they deliver it with enough gravitas, he'll think it's super secret stuff.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:31 PM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


Gingrich just said today that Trump is more unacceptable than Clinton. I just googled it but it's too hard to link while I'm biking. Seems shocking
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:32 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


member of the Frankfurt School

This is a narrow point but she's not even close to being a member of the Frankfurt school (she has some harsh words for Adorno, in fact).

My point wasn't that Arendt's remarks should be relegated to history, but that applying them to the current election is a category mistake made by way of the phrase 'lesser evil' being used in both situations but with much different meanings. Lesser Evil Voting is categorically different than Choosing Some Lesser Evil Under A Totalitarian Regime of Death. They're different categories and different lines of thought follow from them. Indeed, one uses the word evil figuratively, to mean "less in line with my political views", the other means evil. In the latter case Arendt's thinking counts.
posted by dis_integration at 2:32 PM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


So, could this all be an attempt to increase the Trump brand value through publicity by dominating the news cycles for the better part of a year? Is he headed for insolvency without it?

It could be. Or it could be part-and-parcel of his apparently highly specific and personally unique acalculia that causes him to inflate the value of all numbers he speaks out loud by 50 to 50000%.
posted by penduluum at 2:33 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


I can't even begin to wrap my head around a man that says incest jokes about his daughter are fine, but better not mock his net worth!

To be clear, that's not quite what he said. Vulture misrepresented the original article a bit. The off-limits part was questioning that he might not be worth as much as he says he is. The rest of the list, incest jokes included, wasn't explicitly allowed, it was simply the stuff they did say.

Of course, I still can't wrap my head around the actual stuff Donald has said about his daughter.
posted by zachlipton at 2:34 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm 39 and I have no idea what Ivory Snow is.

People, please, no season six spoilers; some of us are still waiting for the book to come out.
posted by cjelli at 2:34 PM on August 3, 2016 [28 favorites]


"Listen, the national security establishment, they trust me. They trust me so much. They said to me, Mr Trump, and I'm quoting here, Mr Trump, North Korea is a nation which occupies the north half of the Korean peninsula. That's straight from the CIA, that's how much they trust me. Tremendous."
posted by murphy slaw at 2:34 PM on August 3, 2016 [34 favorites]


Mr Trump, please proceed.
posted by sfts2 at 2:34 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


[kissing fingers, Italian-chef-style]

Tangentially: this one line reminded me of the Poxy Boggards' song I Wear No Pants, which is proving a delightful distraction and palate cleanser for this thread. That is all.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:34 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Clinton rally in Colorado.
posted by bearwife at 2:35 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Secret Life of Gravy: here. A thing of beauty is a joy forever.
posted by penduluum at 2:35 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


so was that livestream channel showing the rally an official Trump joint?

because the still image behind the "stream's over, thanks for watching" message is a picture of Trump flanked by half a dozen glammed-up models, one on each arm

it's very classy and presidential
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:35 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


What has been truly entertaining over the past couple of days is to watch mainstream (e.g., moderates and neocons) conservatives come to the consensus that Trump is in a nose-dive right now, he's the only one that can pull out of it, and he doesn't want to.
posted by My Dad at 2:37 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Another request here to please tag your quotes as fake or satire, it's literally impossible to tell them apart from the things Trump has actually said.
posted by VTX at 2:37 PM on August 3, 2016 [53 favorites]


Yeah, the stream I linked is a third party trump supporter, not an official mouthpiece of the campaign. I can see how you might be confused, however.
posted by codacorolla at 2:37 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


OMG YOU GUYS HILLARY JUST PRAISED THE DENVER TRANSIT SYSTEM AND POINTED OUR HER SCARF WAS MADE IN COLORADO THIS ELECTION IS INSANE RIGHT?
posted by argybarg at 2:38 PM on August 3, 2016 [35 favorites]


What WILL she say next?
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:41 PM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


because the still image behind the "stream's over, thanks for watching" message is a picture of Trump flanked by half a dozen glammed-up models, one on each arm

That's the new Great Seal of the United States.
posted by Artw at 2:41 PM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]




From Washington to state capitals around the country, a feeling of despair and despondence fell over the Republican establishment

From that Post article. This is the name of my new band.
posted by OmieWise at 2:42 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]




This is a narrow point but she's not even close to being a member of the Frankfurt school (she has some harsh words for Adorno, in fact).

See now, back when I was reading Frankfurt School stuff, the standard narrative was to lump her in as the unacceptable one with the unacceptable politics. This was late-nineties Baffler-era, when Thomas Frank et al were big Adorno fans and more Benjamin was just getting published widely in English. I believe I have an old Baffler article somewhere which is a big critique of her in relation to Adorno, etc.
posted by Frowner at 2:43 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


From Washington to state capitals around the country, a feeling of despair and despondence fell over the Republican establishment

From that Post article. This is the name of my new band.


A bit on the proggy side, but ok.
posted by saturday_morning at 2:45 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


fivethirtyeight must have gotten some new polling data in, polls-only forecast now has Clinton over 70.1%
posted by murphy slaw at 2:45 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


Although it was a typical sTRump speech (see what I - 'cause it, he - okay) and it's fun to hear first-time reactions, I did think he was muttering quite a bit more than usual. Like the idling rumble of a leafblower before it goes off again.

"IRAN, WHATS GOING ON THEREtherewasawholelottacashoverthereIbetsomebodydidthe THE WALL IS PEANUTS WE'RE LOSERS I'mtotallygonnabringjobsbackfromMexicoIlovetheMexicolosertrade WE HAVE TO STOP BUT I'M NOT GONNA . . . "
posted by petebest at 2:45 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Hillary comes out, talks about a specific victory of public spending in relation to the space she is speaking: Colorado's mass transit. Relates this to her policy positions.

trump comes out and mumbles, "Nascar," and gives a perplexing shout-out to its CEO, Brian French.
posted by codacorolla at 2:46 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


winna: "This is a man obsessed with airports."

He's been spending a lot of time in planes traveling home each night.

zachlipton: "Trump is telling us our fighter jets are old because he "watched a documentary" the other day."

Somewhat ironically since the F-35 just became combat ready.

murphy slaw: "yeah, he's selling import tariffs by saying "we'll make a lot of money". Uh, the government will make a lot of revenue but that doesn't help regular people by default?"

Maybe it'll work like the chicken tax and you just won't be able to buy them; that'll save consumers a lot of money on both capital and energy costs.
posted by Mitheral at 2:46 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Meanwhile, shots fired over at PEC about Nate Silver's methodology.

God, I love these kind of fights.
posted by The Gaffer at 2:46 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


It is well that Twitter war is heck, otherwise we would like it too well.
posted by The Gaffer at 2:47 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


My point wasn't that Arendt's remarks should be relegated to history, but that applying them to the current election is a category mistake made by way of the phrase 'lesser evil' being used in both situations but with much different meanings. Lesser Evil Voting is categorically different than Choosing Some Lesser Evil Under A Totalitarian Regime of Death. They're different categories and different lines of thought follow from them. Indeed, one uses the word evil figuratively, to mean "less in line with my political views", the other means evil. In the latter case Arendt's thinking counts.


Well yes, I think you want to compartmentalize the two cases in some way, be it history or categories. However, what I said further was that interpreting Arendt in terms of a terror framework and false choice is what yields some general insights, as well as makes connections to Chomsky's recent advice. I hope it helps more people understand the leftists' point of view, and their concerns. It wasn't really to criticize you, and I'm sorry if what I said previously came across as mainly that.
posted by polymodus at 2:47 PM on August 3, 2016


the cameras, they turn like pretzels. They turn like pretzels


Jesus- now I'm starting to hear Trump's speeches in the same cadence as the "Rock Island" song from the start of The Music Man.

Whad'ya talk?
Whad'ya talk?
Whad'ya talk?

posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:47 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Univision: Trump at 13% among Florida Latinos

I mean, he's doing great, I guess, because that's twelve more percents than I expected.
posted by qcubed at 2:47 PM on August 3, 2016 [36 favorites]


Meanwhile, shots fired over at PEC about Nate Silver's methodology.

I love it when Carl Diggler takes the piss out of Nate Silver. Nate Silver represents everything that is wrong with politics.
posted by My Dad at 2:48 PM on August 3, 2016


I didn't check the viewing figures during Trump's livestream - my brain was maxed out trying to parse - but just just before he came on they were at around 3k. HRC is currently at around 400.

Which is not surprising - the chance of an actual carcrash is always higher at Daytona - but still, would rather it was the other way around.
posted by Devonian at 2:48 PM on August 3, 2016


Are we talking Pundit Nate Silver or Stats Nate Silver?
posted by Artw at 2:49 PM on August 3, 2016


Nate Silver represents everything that is wrong with politics.

I mean, I can think of at least one other thing
posted by penduluum at 2:50 PM on August 3, 2016 [63 favorites]




I wish Clinton would win on merits instead of by default over a nutjob, but I'll take the W.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:51 PM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


Sweet baby Jeebus, I've heard more coherent things out of the mouth of Courtney Love.

That's it. I'm done. If you are honorable you will meet me at dawn tomorrow in Malibu where we will see whose vocals are the rawest. The winner will be declared A Significant Hot Mess and the loser gets to join the Indigo Girls. (You may bring a token-male guitarist as your witness.)

I actually think a Courtney Love presidency would be a hell of a lot more competent and definitely more likely to benefit the electorate than Trump's would. If the only choice was between those two, Love is a no-brainer.
posted by maxwelton at 2:51 PM on August 3, 2016 [17 favorites]


Hillary comes out, talks about a specific victory of public spending in relation to the space she is speaking: Colorado's mass transit. Relates this to her policy positions.

trump comes out and mumbles, "Nascar," and gives a perplexing shout-out to its CEO, Brian French.


Not only that: she just gave out a bunch of Colorodo-specific contact information on how to volunteer for the campaign, and then pivoted to a specific target for registering new voters -- if people wanted to volunteer for that instead -- as well as noting that they're also looking to hire local people for the campaign.

When people talk about 'ground game' well, there it is: anyone excited in that audience, who actually wants to do something beyond voting or giving money -- Clinton's campaign was ready, in advance, with specifics suggestions on who to call and where to go and what to do to get started.

Trump just gave a speech about all the things he's done and all the things he will do. Clinton just gave a speech about all the things her audience could do. 'Stronger Together,' indeed.
posted by cjelli at 2:52 PM on August 3, 2016 [63 favorites]


Meanwhile, the mighty woman is organizing her transition team. How refreshingly presidential.

Trump tapped Chris Christie to lead his transition team in May.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:52 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump is in a nose-dive right now, he's the only one that can pull out of it, and he doesn't want to.

“The problem is that Trump watches TV every minute that he isn’t actually on his phone, either talking or tweeting,” said one [anonymous, obviously exasperated Trump] adviser [to the Huffington Post].

“And then he gets angry at what he sees on TV and reacts.”

So here we are, watching one candidate's presidential campaign being run entirely within the cable news cycle, in a death spiral of irrationality and wrath.

THIS IS NOT FINE!!
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:54 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


Certainly if Trump was a member of the triumvirate he'd be Crassus

This I can get behind. Specifically, Trump is Crassus at that point in his career where he's strapping on armor at like seventy and marching to his asskicking at Carrhae while everyone else is like "dude, what are you dooooing?"
posted by EatTheWeak at 2:55 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]




If elected Mefi President for Life I promise to have the Stanley Cup do a tour of Canada so that our Canadian brothers and sisters would be given a chance to gaze upon their birthright which has been stolen by American interlopers for far too long.

OK but it stays in Canada all year at the Hockey Hall of Fame except for during the Finals and when the winning team's players get to spend a day with it (though many of them are also Canadian and bring it here on their days anyway). I mean, seeing it is not a problem. it's the whole part where we don't get to brag about our team winning it that's the problem.

So in short, to get my vote you need to make sure a Canadian team other than the Leafs or Flames wins it.
posted by Hoopo at 2:56 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


... a picture of Trump flanked by half a dozen glammed-up models, one on each arm ...

Jebus, prize bull octorok, that seems like a lot of arms.
posted by Occula at 2:56 PM on August 3, 2016 [35 favorites]


So here we are, watching one candidate's presidential campaign being run entirely within the cable news cycle, in a death spiral of irrationality and wrath.

Like a toilet, where instead of draining into the sewer system, it just drops everything back into the bowl.
posted by codacorolla at 2:56 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


Fox News Poll 7/31-8/2 MOE 3 : Clinton 49% Trump 39% (Clinton +10)
posted by Justinian at 2:56 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


I mean, he's doing great, I guess, because that's twelve more percents than I expected.

No. There's a (thankfully very small) subset of the latino community who are all "I CAME HERE LEGALLY AND FUCK THOSE PEOPLE THAT WANT TO COME AS WELL!"

Never mind that to come here legally requires you to either be marrying a US citizen, be rich, or win the DV lottery.
posted by Talez at 2:56 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


posted by scaryblackdeath I'm increasingly convinced they probably haven't/won't tell him anything that's actually that sensitive in those meetings.

NSA OFFICER SMITH: Mr. Trump, here is today's security brief. Please note our intelligence regarding Hillary Clinton's secret identity as Satan, Bigfoot's Soviet citizenship, and our extensive stock in Ivory Snow and Kellogg's cereal.

NSA OFFICER JONES: This material is top-secret, for your eyes only.

DONALD TRUMP: This is yuge. Believe me. This is tremendous, amazing. Thank you. You're fired.

NSA OFFICER JONES: You're welcome, Mr. Trump.

(Later, SMITH and JONES watch Trump rally on television)

DONALD TRUMP: Hillary Clinton is the devil! Also, I want to see more ads for Ivory Snow and Kellogg's cereal!

NSA OFFICER SMITH: Nailed it! Two out of three, you owe me fifty bucks.

NSA OFFICE JONES: Here you go. For tomorrow's brief, want to go two-for one he repeats the Soviet Bigfoot story?

NSA OFFICER SMITH: I'm in.
posted by mattdidthat at 2:57 PM on August 3, 2016 [53 favorites]


Trump tapped Chris Christie to lead his transition team in May.

Considering even Trump seemingly believes he's not winning come November, isn't this the least important job in his campaign? Christie really is in full blown battered wife syndrome at this point.
posted by PenDevil at 2:58 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


I wish Clinton would win on merits instead of by default over a nutjob, but I'll take the W.

Default? The "two sweetest words in the English language."
posted by drezdn at 2:58 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


You can talk, you can bicker, but it's different than it was.
No it ain't, no it ain't.
But you gotta know the territory!

-Music Man "train"scene

Personal factoid: I was in my high school band and one of our more interesting tasks was playing when the Drama Department staged a musical. They did Music Man and needed a few extra bodies for that scene. Since it was a kinda-musical number that didn't need a backup band, guess who went up on stage chanting "No it ain't, no it ain't. But you gotta know the territory!". Among others, me. Good times. Now that's going to earworm me for days. Also the potential for comparing Dishonest Donnie to "Professor" Harold Hill is... irresistible.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:58 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


How, um...I can't believe I'm even asking this...
How reliable are FOX News polls?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:59 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


You guys and gals made me a shitty bartender today, trying to keep up with these threads. But I did hear a rumor- Newt Gingrich is going to be in the hotel I work at, tomorrow. Not sure what, if anything, I shall do with this info.
posted by vrakatar at 2:59 PM on August 3, 2016


Jebus, prize bull octorok, that seems like a lot of arms.

What, six arms? That plus two legs is the correct number of limbs as far as my kind are concerned.
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:00 PM on August 3, 2016 [28 favorites]


Fox News Poll 7/31-8/2 MOE 3 : Clinton 49% Trump 39% (Clinton +10)

live footage from HRC campaign HQ
posted by entropicamericana at 3:01 PM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


Apoplectic is latin for "scared shitless", right?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:02 PM on August 3, 2016


That plus two legs is the correct number of limbs as far as my kind are concerned.

*squints* ... oh, nevermind!
posted by Occula at 3:03 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


How reliable are FOX News polls?

538 gives them a B with a +0.5R leaning. So they're okay.
posted by Justinian at 3:03 PM on August 3, 2016


> How reliable are Fox News polls

He may or may not be everything that is wrong with politics, but for what it's worth Nate Silver gives them a B.

I am fairly sure the other big election forecasters don't do this pollster-weighting thing, so make of that what you will.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 3:05 PM on August 3, 2016


I hope the DNC momentum can carry through even if Trump flakes out, so we can flip the house and senate. I'm afraid without the specter of Trumpism folks will stay home and not vote.
posted by mrzarquon at 3:05 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Considering even Trump seemingly believes he's not winning come November, isn't this the least important job in his campaign?

If that changes I full expect Christie to be replaced.
posted by Artw at 3:06 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


Speaking of Nate Silver, I'm not exactly sure what to make of Brad DeLong and Sam Wang claiming (respectively) that the 538 forecast isn't a forecast or that it's a forecast based on a single snapshot of recent polls.

I thought the 538 folks said that their forecasts were based on a LOESS regression of all the polls ever?

Did I misunderstand? Did somebody else misunderstand?
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 3:08 PM on August 3, 2016


i think the "single snapshot" refers to the now-cast?
posted by murphy slaw at 3:09 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Sweet baby Jeebus, I've heard more coherent things out of the mouth of Courtney Love. This is nuts.

Make America ache like I ache again!
posted by obscure simpsons reference at 3:10 PM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


This is what has been getting me through (gleaned from one of these threads, I'm sure). Repeated daily viewings of this: Khaleesi is coming to Westeros.
posted by lunasol at 3:10 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


the cameras, they turn like pretzels. They turn like pretzels

Jesus- now I'm starting to hear Trump's speeches in the same cadence as the "Rock Island" song from the start of The Music Man.


For me, I can't not-hear them in the voice of Frank Costanza.
posted by mudpuppie at 3:10 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


> i think the "single snapshot" refers to the now-cast?

Oh, that would make sense.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 3:12 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


the servers will melt, and then where will we be?
posted by Celsius1414


Exactly how hot would that have to be?
posted by JackFlash at 3:15 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


Not supporting Israel unconditionally is not the same thing as being anti-Semitic.

Yeah, no shit. Was it not glaringly obvious that my comment was about what some Republican members of my family believe and not my own personal views?
posted by zarq at 3:16 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


This morning the news was all about Hillary out-raising Trump and now we get Trump's campaign saying they raised a lot more than they had before? Uh, is anyone besides me wondering if they literally just made that up?
posted by Andrhia at 3:17 PM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


We need a new post-convention Tingle release.

Pounded in the Butt by Relentless Polls?
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:17 PM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


Right, Andrhia. And those "emergency fundraising " calls of the past few days...
posted by Sublimity at 3:18 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Clinton and Kaine are releasing a book September 6 called Stronger Together.

It "will present a wide range of proposals from the Democratic presidential nominee. Hillary Clinton and Kaine, a Virginia senator, contributed introductions, and the book also will draw upon speeches and position papers and contributions from other campaign officials."
posted by pocketfullofrye at 3:18 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


You know, no fooling, I'm now actually unable to watch Trump anymore in the raw format. He sent me screaming out of the Quicken Loans Arena, and now I compulsively switch the channel away. He's like some Lovecraftian horror that will destroy my mind if I let him.
posted by corb at 3:20 PM on August 3, 2016 [84 favorites]


Have we ever had an actually crazy president?

The thread's moved on, but there's a relatively common notion in Kennedy assassination subculture that Kennedy was addicted to amphetamines, and that therefore the Sinister Conspiracy that killed him was acting nobly in defense of the country.
posted by gerryblog at 3:20 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


the servers will melt, and then where will we be?
posted by Celsius1414

Exactly how hot would that have to be?


THE SERVER ROOM WAS ANGRY THAT DAY, MY FRIENDS!
posted by Celsius1414 at 3:20 PM on August 3, 2016 [13 favorites]


Trump has to lose in November or they are fucking done because it will be White Nationalist Demogogues from now on otherwise.

The WhiND Party welcomes demagogues, gasbags, blowhards, mouth-breathers, and windbags of all sorts.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:21 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Pounded in the Butt by Relentless Polls?

You sure you spelled that right?
posted by tclark at 3:21 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


The Lovecraftian horror that will destroy our minds is doing a double feature today in Florida. His next stop is Jacksonville. The other feed had sound issues and has gone offline, so here's an alternate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZKbI1mmrgg. The aggro metal has given way to a frightening woman (who is nevertheless 100% more articulate than Trump) speaking about Hillary Clinton's many faults.
posted by Don Pepino at 3:22 PM on August 3, 2016


posted by TheWhiteSkull now I'm starting to hear Trump's speeches in the same cadence as the "Rock Island" song from the start of The Music Man.

Trump, oh, we've got Trump, right here in River City!
posted by mattdidthat at 3:23 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


He's like some Lovecraftian horror that will destroy my mind if I let him.

The Old One is actually the hair, which has devoured his soul, and now it's leading the cult.
posted by qcubed at 3:23 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Did she just say, "we have been fed a bag of no-good?"
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:24 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Why do our fathers like this man? My dad... weird. Must be his age
posted by infini at 3:24 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


"A politician that is truthful and loyal to the people is refreshing."

Well, I can certainly agree with that statement.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:25 PM on August 3, 2016


I'm really expecting Romney or maybe one of the Bushes to throw their weight behind Clinton.

Romney
Oh!) The people are asking to hear my voice
(Oh!) But the country is facing a difficult choice
(Oh!) And you were to ask me who I’d promote…
(Oh!) …Clinton has my vote
(Oh!) I have never agreed with Clinton once…
(Oh!) We have fought on like 75 different fronts
(Oh!) But when all said and all is done…
Clinton has beliefs; Trump has none

Clinton and Kaine-
Well I'll be damned, Well I'll Be Damned

Kaine
Romney is on your side
And you won in a land slide
posted by vuron at 3:25 PM on August 3, 2016 [18 favorites]


Oh, no. The frightening woman has been supplanted by former Lieutenant Governor Jennifer Carroll. She says Yoho is next.
posted by Don Pepino at 3:25 PM on August 3, 2016


LBJ had an ego that boadered on psychotic. Nixon was merely paranoid.
posted by clavdivs at 3:27 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Katy Tur outside Trump Tower saying that the party is done with Trump, citing:

-- Not endorsing McCain/Ryans
-- Khans
-- Keeping the purple heart
-- "fighting with a baby"
posted by zutalors! at 3:27 PM on August 3, 2016 [13 favorites]


Now if it had been a Muslim baby...
posted by garius at 3:29 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


This 1996 New Yorker piece is a post-mortem of Bob Dole's campaign (and sits behind a paywall). It's either a tantalizing shred of hope or a quaint reminder of days gone by:

Every day, the campaign provided Dole with a positive, issues-oriented speech. The advance texts of these speeches were dutifully put up on the TelePrompTer and handed out to reporters. Sometimes Dole delivered the speeches, but more often he didn't. He said, it seemed, whatever he pleased, whatever popped into his mind. What pleased him most was to rail against Clinton, so that was what Dole was going to do, no matter what his advisers said... Dole's campaign for President was, in a sense, always a protest campaign: Dole's protest against everything--the culture of politics, the culture of his country, the values of a nation that appreciated a man like. Clinton more than a man like Dole... When political consultants talk about their favorite clients, their ideal campaigners, what they talk about are people who, as they say, take direction well. Nobody has ever taken political direction better than Clinton: he governs by it. Dole never took direction at all. As the campaign entered its last few days, it achieved, finally, a sort of Dolean purity-- a state of perfect antic formlessness.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:30 PM on August 3, 2016 [14 favorites]


posted by zutalors! "fighting with a baby"

The one running for president, or the one he kicked out of his rally?
posted by mattdidthat at 3:31 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Katy Tur outside Trump Tower saying that the party is done with Trump

It's a bit late for that, isn't it?
posted by thelonius at 3:32 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


Hrmm

apparently

-- being racist
-- being sexist
-- being homophobic (let's be honest this is basically a requirement)

are not reasons to cut ties with Trump but failing to endorse McCain and Ryan are major offenses.

Glad to see the Republican party upholding such high ethical standards.
posted by vuron at 3:32 PM on August 3, 2016 [51 favorites]


It is amazing. Of all the horrible things Trump has said and done, all the harm he's already caused to Americans and around the world, all the kids using his own name to taunt their Muslim or Hispanic classmates, the thing that finally seems to have gotten the GOP to realize they can't stand for this was the fact that he refused to endorse Paul Ryan and John McCain.
posted by zachlipton at 3:33 PM on August 3, 2016 [42 favorites]


The best thing about the Fox poll, other than Clinton's sheer lead, is that it shows that people are *pissed* about Trump's treatment of the Khans. Two-thirds said they were very familiar or somewhat familiar with the incident, and two-thirds said that Trump's behavior was out of bounds (compared to 12% who said it was in bounds.) It makes me feel a little bit better about my fellow Americans.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:34 PM on August 3, 2016 [27 favorites]


"fighting with a baby"

I just want to mention that I was the person who put the baby fight in the public eye, thus bringing about Trump's downfall. You're welcome. Your favorites are thanks enough.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:34 PM on August 3, 2016 [12 favorites]


I would feel even better about my fellow Americans if they thought that, say, calling Mexicans "rapists" and "murderers" was equally out of bounds as insulting a Gold Star family.
posted by zachlipton at 3:35 PM on August 3, 2016 [44 favorites]


theodolite was right there too, so toss a couple his way
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:36 PM on August 3, 2016


Sorry: 69% said Trump's behavior was out of bounds, 19% said in bounds, and 12% don't know. How exactly can you not know? But whatever. The in-bounds people are below the 27% crazification factor.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:36 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


Someone was looking for this in the old thread: trumpornot.com
posted by joeyh at 3:36 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


"fighting with a baby"

I just thought it was funny that that was a direct, straightfaced quote from Katy Tur.
posted by zutalors! at 3:36 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


It is amazing. Of all the horrible things Trump has said and done, all the harm he's already caused to Americans and around the world, all the kids using his own name to taunt their Muslim or Hispanic classmates, the thing that finally seems to have gotten the GOP to realize they can't stand for this was the fact that he refused to endorse Paul Ryan and John McCain.

1. They couldn't have done it any other way because it would be too much like listening to Obama and that's a no no.

2. The GOP has jumped the shark, tipped the point, Corbyned itself into a REpublexit ?
posted by infini at 3:37 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm behind the times with Funny Memes but do people still do edits of the Hitler rant from Downfall? And has anyone done it from the standpoint of Trump ranting against Clinton and all the other enemies he has?
posted by vuron at 3:37 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]




That is not to say that a secretary couldn't refuse, but then he would be violating his duty and would be removed and replaced.

...which is exactly what Blue Jello Elf said in literally the next sentence:


No, that is not what was said. It is not the case that "The only requirement is that the president and the defense secretary agree." There is no legal requirement that the president and secretary agree. The secretary's job is to authenticate the order, that is verify that it is the President indeed issuing the order, even if he disagrees with that order. A secretary who is doing his legally mandated job will authenticate the order even if he disagrees with it. And if the secretary refuses, then they will find somebody else to authenticate the order. They need not find anyone who agrees with the order.

It is simply incorrect to say "the only requirement is that the president and the defense secretary agree." That is not the legal requirement.

If a President wants to launch nukes, he can do so whether anyone agrees with him or not. He alone has the legal authority for that decision, not the secretary.
posted by JackFlash at 3:39 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Certainly if Trump was a member of the triumvirate he'd be Crassus instead of Pompey or Gaius Julius.

i disagree - he'd be moe
posted by pyramid termite at 3:39 PM on August 3, 2016 [15 favorites]


the party is done with Trump

Trump is not done with the party and doesn't care about their feelings on the matter.
posted by Artw at 3:41 PM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


Meanwhile, the mighty woman is organizing her transition team. How refreshingly presidential.

Trump tapped Chris Christie to lead his transition team in May.


I hate to be all cynical and everything, but I think Trump saying Christie was doing this -- well before Trump was the nominee-- does not actually mean Christie is doing anything at all. For one thing, it has been 3 months now and no word on anyone who will be in a Trump administration. Maybe not even Christie now that he dared to criticize the Leader for the Khan kerfuffle.

I do, however, believe John Pedestal and his team are actually screening names for an HRC cabinet. It's the reality of the organization and planning that seems refreshingly presidential to me.
posted by bearwife at 3:41 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


If only someone, some group of Republicans, say, had warned Priebus and Ryan about this, while offering them a way to get this clown out of the nomination. If only this group had warned them that however Trump might seem at the moment, it was only going to get worse.

IF ONLY.
posted by corb at 3:42 PM on August 3, 2016 [124 favorites]


Since we're talking about the baby, let me point out here (with huge thanks to my excellent feminist friends who have pointed it out to me) that this is not actually about Trump fighting with a baby.

It's about Trump hating women.

Here's what Amadi Lovelace has to say, and it's exactly right and I can't possibly say it any better:
In talking about Trump and the baby, people seem to be focusing on the idea of "who yells at a baby?" And it is kind of in line with our questions about his temperament to frame this as Trump yelling at a baby.

But he didn't yell at a baby. He yelled at a woman who had a baby.

And more importantly, he didn't just yell at her, he gaslighted her, telling her at first that it was OK that her baby was fussing, and then acting like she was nuts for taking him at his word and should have somehow divined magically that he actually wanted her to leave.

This was an example of three horrible things all wrapped up in one. First, Trump's tendency toward doublespeak, saying one thing, meaning the exact opposite and acting like everyone else is bizarre and ignorant for taking his words at face value. Second, the aforementioned gaslighting, which is an always an abuse tactic, full out.

Third, and this is a little more nuanced, it's a prime example of the insidious way in which parenting forces women, especially, out of public life. When babies aren't welcome somewhere, when babies start crying, it is mothers who are expected to stay home, mothers who are expected to take the baby out, mothers whose lives are interrupted.

It's not "Trump yells at a baby."

It's "Trump uses abusive tactics and reinforces marginalization of women with children by yelling at mother of young baby."

Sometimes brevity is the enemy of an accurate picture of just how bad something is.
posted by The Bellman at 3:42 PM on August 3, 2016 [175 favorites]


A great moment from the first debate. Trump breaks into singing Die Wacht am Rhein. Hillary counters with La Marseillaise. Soon she is joined by the entire audience. (sigh)
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:42 PM on August 3, 2016 [13 favorites]


Can panicked Republicans rid themselves of Trump? Here are 7 options. "Spoiler alert: None of those options are good."
posted by kirkaracha at 3:43 PM on August 3, 2016


Certainly if Trump was a member of the triumvirate he'd be Crassus instead of Pompey or Gaius Julius.

Privatize fire departments: check
posted by thelonius at 3:43 PM on August 3, 2016 [13 favorites]


I don't think the Repubs are done with Trump. There's almost nothing they can do about it but come out for Hillary, which they won't do.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:43 PM on August 3, 2016


LBJ had an ego that boadered on psychotic. Nixon was merely paranoid.

And yet Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act, whereas Nixon entrenched the Southern Strategy, soooo
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 3:44 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]



Since we're talking about the baby, let me point out here (with huge thanks to my excellent feminist friends who have pointed it out to me) that this is not actually about Trump fighting with a baby.

It's about Trump hating women.


to be clear, I 100% agree with this, but it's still funny to hear a reporter use the phrase "fighting with a baby" and everyone knows exactly what it's about.
posted by zutalors! at 3:44 PM on August 3, 2016 [17 favorites]


A great moment from the first debate. Trump breaks into singing Die Wacht am Rhein. Hillary counters with La Marseillaise. Soon she is joined by the entire audience. (sigh)

I'm pretty sure she would lose fewer voters if she took a pledge of allegiance to ISIS on stage than if she did anything remotely French.
posted by zachlipton at 3:45 PM on August 3, 2016


I know we've already seen several plugs for Owen Ellickson on Twitter in these threads, but just... god damn is this dude salty.
Regarding that Fox News poll:

RYAN: New poll: you're down 10.
TRUMP: CNN?
RYAN: Fox.
TRUMP: Wow. I guess their girls can't do the math without Ailes pawing at 'em?
RYAN:

posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:45 PM on August 3, 2016 [15 favorites]


In news from the old country, UKIP, the populist right-wing party led by a charismatic demagogue, has imploded in a shower of infighting, rules lawyering and collapsing public support (below 20 percent by some polls). Its major backer is talking about wrapping it up and starting again.

Of course, this is far too late for us. You may yet be able to save yourselves.
posted by Devonian at 3:46 PM on August 3, 2016 [21 favorites]


Hey is that CAPS-LOCK MAN PASTOR MARK BURNS? I've kind of been missing him.
posted by zachlipton at 3:47 PM on August 3, 2016




Ok he's shouting so loud and the audio is clipping so much that he's incomprehensible.
posted by zachlipton at 3:47 PM on August 3, 2016


Buzzfeed: Republican Donors Panic As Trump Melts Down
“I don’t know what he’s doing — trying to commit suicide?” said Stan Hubbard, a Minnesota-based top donor to a pro-Trump super PAC. Hubbard has been trying to get other Republican donors, including Charles and David Koch, on board with Donald Trump for months.[...]
Hubbard said he’s not jumping ship yet, but suggested that if Libertarian nominee Gary Johnson picked up significant momentum, he would be willing to switch over. “It will be interesting to see,” he said. “He was a good governor. He’s not over the top. He’s not loony. If there is some sort of effort, you’re darn right I could.”

He also acknowledged that any sort of intervention would likely be futile. “I don’t think anyone can control him. He should control himself.”
There ya go, your next protest sign. "Johnson. Not loony."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:47 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]






The fight with the Khans really marked a change in how people on the right started to see Trump. The question is: is that story going to fade and the race returns to the pre-convention numbers of a +4 lead? Or does the Clinton campaign have more ways to bait and ruin Trump? I mean, Trump rebounded completely after Curiel, and he can rebound again after this. But my guess is that whenever there is the slightest bounce for him, the Clinton campaign will be ready with another damaging story to get him reeling again.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 3:50 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


jeezus if hilary makes a shuckle joke re: trump the internet might explode
posted by Tevin at 3:52 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


so mike pence just endorsed paul ryan, while his running mate refuses to do so

The president can't fire the vice president. Can the presidential nominee fire the vice presidential nominee?
posted by kirkaracha at 3:56 PM on August 3, 2016


Oh dang, this thing is great:

BOEHNER: Eight glasses of Malbec and a needlepoint of a barn, THAT'S what I did today. How's life with Trump?
RYAN: Let's not talk about me

RYAN: We could ALL unendorse. Reince-
TRUMP: Priebus? I JUST found out he was real. Thought he was a computer helper, like Jeeves, or Clippy
posted by Don Pepino at 3:56 PM on August 3, 2016 [45 favorites]


posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates The fight with the Khans really marked a change in how people on the right started to see Trump.

Khizr Khan : Donald Trump :: Joseph N. Welch : Joseph McCarthy
posted by mattdidthat at 3:58 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


I've just realized: at this point, Trump may be deliberately throwing the campaign. Realizing he can't win, but unable to back down out of pride, ego, and narcissism, he's going to make the campaign as horrible as possible until the RNC actually removes him.

That way, he never lost: he can blame the rigged system.
posted by Bora Horza Gobuchul at 3:58 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Donald Trump: The suicide rate for veterans is so high, "I'm not even going to tell you what it is."

This is so totally a kid who hasn't done his homework. "This book was so good I'm not even going to tell you how it ends. I don't want to spoil it for you."

CNN: Donald Trump's strange campaign gets stranger
He is so unorthodox that it is sometimes tough for those caught up in the maelstrom to judge what is happening against a credible political scale. His antics often beg the question of whether Trump has so skewed campaign logic that he has tapped into a connection with voters that normal politicians don't even recognize. That makes it far too early to write him off.
But equally, it's possible America is currently watching the meltdown of the billionaire's campaign. Perhaps the most unorthodox, unpredictable candidate ever has hit limits of political convention that even he can't trump?
American political sages are not alone in trying to figure out the riotous election -- the world is watching too.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:59 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Realizing he can't win, but unable to back down out of pride, ego, and narcissism, he's going to make the campaign as horrible as possible until the RNC actually removes him.

What do you think it'll take? Dropping an n-word at a rally? Punching a lady?
posted by infinitywaltz at 4:00 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]




Chris Matthews might as well call his show TeeBall right now
posted by zutalors! at 4:01 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


I think Trump is headed for a full-throttle nervous breakdown. I know cynics will say he is already there, but really he is just paranoid/hateful/irrational. The comments about Ivory Snow and Kellog's. That's full out blathering.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:01 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


That Vox article about the Koch Bros buying the state-level elections that ArtW linked to above is very depressing, though I guess the magic wore off a bit in Kansas. Is it as accurate as it is confident in its analysis?
posted by Devonian at 4:02 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Dropping an n-word at a rally?

Pretty sure that's next.
posted by Talez at 4:03 PM on August 3, 2016


I'm not going to link Breitbart, so I'll just paste the super thin article in here wholesale and hopefully steal some ad revenue from them. In short, GOP continues full collapse as Hannity blames RNC leaders for trump's increasingly likely failure,

Wednesday on his syndicated radio show, conservative talker Sean Hannity criticized several high-ranking Republicans for how they have treated their party’s nominee Donald Trump.

According to Hannity, if Trump loses in November, House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-WI) and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) will be to blame for the loss because they have spent more time criticizing Trump than President Barack Obama.

“If in 96 days Trump loses this election, I am pointing the finger directly at people like Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham and John McCain and John Kasich and Ted Cruz if he won’t endorse – and Jeb Bush and everybody else that made promises they’re not keeping,” Hannity said. “And because I have watched and witnessed to the point of incredible frustration – I have watched these Republicans be more harsh towards Donald Trump than they’ve ever been in standing up to Barack Obama and his radical agenda that had doubled the debt, that has resulted in a 51-year low in home ownership in this country, the percentage of homes that are owned by Americans, the lowest labor participation rate since the 70s and that has led to millions and millions of Americans in poverty and on food stamps and out of the labor force.”

“They did nothing, nothing – all these phony votes to repeal and replace ObamaCare, show votes so they can go back and keep their power and get reelected,” he added. “Sorry, you created Donald Trump, all of you because of your ineffectiveness, because of your weakness, your spinelessness, your lack of vision, your inability to fight Obama. Your fear of being blamed for a government shutdown and I’m getting a little sick and tired of all of you. Honestly I am tempted to just say I don’t support any of you people ever. You know what, Paul Ryan wants to play this game – I haven’t made up my mind either. He’s running against a guy in the primary. I haven’t made up mind who I’m going to support.”
posted by codacorolla at 4:06 PM on August 3, 2016 [18 favorites]


he's going to make the campaign as horrible as possible until the RNC actually removes him

According to the rules, the candidate must step down voluntarily, they can't be removed.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:06 PM on August 3, 2016


John Noonan, who was on Morning Joe this morning about the security briefing, will be with Chris Hayes tonight.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:07 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


who is owen ellickson that is beyond brilliant.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 4:08 PM on August 3, 2016


Please let that sink in. Sean Hannity admitted that the grandstanding on repealing Obamacare was a waste of time!
posted by codacorolla at 4:08 PM on August 3, 2016 [38 favorites]


Please let that sink in. Sean Hannity admitted that the grandstanding on repealing Obamacare was a waste of time!

In context, Hannity was actually pissed that nobody had the balls to attach defund Obamacare to a vital bill and force a government shutdown over it.
posted by Talez at 4:11 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


Trump has a very interesting follow list - I saved it to see how many of them he still follows in a month.
posted by winna at 4:11 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


GOP continues full collapse as Hannity blames RNC leaders for trump's increasingly likely failure

It would be an interesting turn of the worm if Republicans ultimately had to make Gary Johnson their own personal Nader, so as to evade responsibility for picking Trump.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 4:14 PM on August 3, 2016


I previously linked to this BBC article about the Koch brothers
Koch has put their network’s budget at roughly $750m through the end of 2016. A significant portion was supposed to help elect a Republican to the White House but this weekend Mark Holden, general counsel and senior vice-president of Koch Industries, said it would instead go to helping GOP Senate candidates in at least five states: Ohio, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Wisconsin and Florida.
That's 750 million dollars divided by five Senate races.

But then, the prospect of 'popular' right-wing wackos like Hannity turning against the Republican Establishment (such as it is) may help lead to the rabid (LITERALLY) Trumpists not voting for the Republican down-ticket. Now THAT would be good news for countering the Koch machine.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:16 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


Sweet baby Jeebus, I've heard more coherent things out of the mouth of Courtney Love. This is nuts.

Love Trumps Hate.
posted by monospace at 4:18 PM on August 3, 2016 [75 favorites]


Hannity is an embarrassment of a "human". He's as much to blame for Trumpism as the GOP establishment.
posted by qcubed at 4:19 PM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


So I want to get back to this thing that Gingrich said,
“The current race is which of these two is the more unacceptable, because right now neither of them is acceptable,” Gingrich said in a Wednesday morning telephone interview. “Trump is helping her to win by proving he is more unacceptable than she is.”

Gingrich said Trump has only a matter of weeks to reverse course. “Anybody who is horrified by Hillary should hope that Trump will take a deep breath and learn some new skills,” he said. “He cannot win the presidency operating the way he is now. She can’t be bad enough to elect him if he’s determined to make this many mistakes.”
It is interesting to me because Gingrich, Giuliani, and Priebus are supposedly the intervention crew. The strategy of bad-mouthing Trump before the intervention starts is odd but I thought perhaps Gingrich has decided to slap Trump on the wrist and then threaten him in person with a full on spanking if he doesn't get his act together. I mean what else do they have to threaten him with? I don't think Trump is going to listen to anything they have to say. He is sure that he won the nomination because he has his finger on the pulse of America and everyone else is too stoopid to understand what Americans want to hear.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:19 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


If in 96 days Trump loses this election, I am pointing the finger directly at people like Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham and John McCain and John Kasich and Ted Cruz if he won’t endorse – and Jeb Bush and everybody else that made promises they’re not keeping,

So, if Trump loses, it's because the entire core leadership of the party is useless and corrupt?

Okay, well, it is, which is why they couldn't field an actual candidate and instead got a walking comment meme. But damn, that's a lot of fingers to be pointing; who exactly does he think is clean in this?
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:19 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Orange Julius Caesar

I gotta object to this one, as it gives Trump too much credit.


If you parse it as Orange (Julius Caesar) then yes, it gives trump way too much cred, but if you read it as (Orange Julius) Caesar then it's actually pretty apt.
posted by Bringer Tom at 4:20 PM on August 3, 2016 [16 favorites]


The comments about Ivory Snow and Kellogg's.

what's next? a confession that he dyes his hair with orange rit?
posted by pyramid termite at 4:20 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Can the presidential nominee fire the vice presidential nominee?

Pence putting his boss on the spot is a pretty odd thing to do. Would he want to get fired, to further isolate Trump? He withdrew from his gubernatorial reelection campaign and can't go back, so its VP or more or less nothing (other than working for a lobbying firm, maybe). Or perhaps he is playing a longer game, pushing his boss to flame out. He then steps out of the ashes as the new GOP standard-bearer that the party faithful rally around.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 4:21 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]




Trump has clearly lost all Twitter access. Someone is standing up to Trump and working overtime to right that sinking ship, it seems.
posted by Yowser at 4:22 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Manafort has already denied the intervention story.
posted by winna at 4:23 PM on August 3, 2016


GDI! He's late. I have a dinner engagement and must go. I'm pretty sure he can't do two of these in a row, especially given that he traveled from Daytona to Jax in 99-degrees-in-the-shade Florida, without descending into some serious Linda Blair hijinx about something, but he's late, so I'm going to miss the freakshow. Well. At least this proves he's not Hitler because Hitler had the goddamn trains running on time.

Dump! Trump! The late-showing-up-assed scrub.

(I will feel very slightly bad if it turns out he OD'd on his diet pills and had a seizure backstage. Very slightly.)
posted by Don Pepino at 4:23 PM on August 3, 2016


There are 96 days left in this election and 151 days left in 2016. My gut tells me year that took Bowie from me in January is just waiting until November to crotch punch me, so Imma be pessimistic as hell until the votes are counted and the court cases are decided and Hillary Clinton takes the oath and has a seat behind the Resolute Desk.

Pessimism seems to be working for me so far.
posted by Mooski at 4:24 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


One would think Manafort would have his hands full denying his ties to Putin and Russian organized crime.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 4:25 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


He then steps out of the ashes as the new GOP standard-bearer that the party faithful rally around.

Ummm no. Bland and unappealing with a heart of cold ice. Really horrible on women's reproductive choices. He is much too far to the Right to appeal to independents. Besides, Clinton can always say he wasn't anyone's choice and he received no votes.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:25 PM on August 3, 2016


Can the presidential nominee fire the vice presidential nominee?

I'm spitballing here, but my understanding would be that, no, the VP nominee was duly nominated by the RNC in a separate vote from the presidential nominee. So, Pence can't be removed involuntarily on Trump's say-so. He's the RNC's nominee, not Trump's, at the end of the day.
posted by saturday_morning at 4:26 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


If by shenanigans Pence was somehow to become the GOP presidential nominee, Clinton should still send Kaine to debate him, on the grounds that he ain't even on her level and it is more fitting to let her homie ride on him
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:29 PM on August 3, 2016 [22 favorites]


Hannity is... as much to blame for Trumpism as the GOP establishment.

Hannity and O'Reilly and Limbaugh and Coulter (Ann not Jonathan) and a few others. Trumpists listen to them and follow them into the gates of Hell... If they instruct their ditto-brained followers to abandon the Grand Old Party and not vote for the down-ticket Rs, it could have a very good result. That's why I, for one, DON'T want Deranged Donnie to totally self-destruct. Sorry if you find the process painful, but it might just result in something good.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:29 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


The thing is, if Trump has lost his direct twitter feed to a more responsible handler, the optics of that are pretty bad for the very people Trump has been aiming those tweets at, who think they're getting the "straight dope" from an "ordinary guy." Now they'll be getting a "handled" message stream from a functionary, and they'll blame Trump for giving up his "honest" soapbox. (After all, if you don't think Twitter is useless, that's why you don't think Twitter is useless.)
posted by Bringer Tom at 4:30 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Manafort has already denied the intervention story

Oh honey, you are so naive. That is literally his job-- to manage the campaign and spin the truth. But I would not be surprised to hear that the intervention is off because Trump refused to meet with them.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:30 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


> The comments about Ivory Snow and Kellogg's.

what's next? a confession that he dyes his hair with orange rit?


turns out he doesn't use nothing you buy at the store. but he likes his hair to be real orange.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:31 PM on August 3, 2016 [21 favorites]


Chris Matthews has a Trump surrogate on now who is also denying the story, but admits what a horrible weekend Trump had.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:33 PM on August 3, 2016


he doesn't use anything you buy at the store

He has a yuuuuge facility somewhere in one of his towers full of endagered orangutans from which his hair is harvested.
posted by Bringer Tom at 4:33 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


-- Not endorsing McCain/Ryans
-- Khans
-- Keeping the purple heart
-- "fighting with a baby"


you know if this weren't the country that elected GWB, I'd say this looks a lot like a false flag operation
posted by Hoopo at 4:33 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


So he's off Twitter, he's just tossed the word salad at Daytona and he's busy doing whatever he does when he's being late. Just one major foo-foo with the nuke story. Oh, and the polls. And more Repubs jumping ship. Not enough outrage. Sad!

(And I'm sure they've played this cockrock track before. The crowd are not looking very happy.)
posted by Devonian at 4:34 PM on August 3, 2016


Oh honey, you are so naive. That is literally his job-- to manage the campaign and spin the truth. But I would not be surprised to hear that the intervention is off because Trump refused to meet with them.

Excuse me? I didn't say I believed it - I linked a story indicating what he said. There's no need to call me condescending pet names.
posted by winna at 4:35 PM on August 3, 2016 [66 favorites]


They've taken his Twitter away at least once before, and it lasted maybe a day. Donald Trump will Tweet again!
posted by kirkaracha at 4:35 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


> He has a yuuuuge facility somewhere in one of his towers full of endagered orangutans from which his hair is harvested.

that's right. he uses oraaaaaaaaaa-aaaaa-aaaangutans. oraaaaaa-aaaaa-aaaangutans...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:35 PM on August 3, 2016 [18 favorites]


Veteran and GOP Congressman Says He Can't Vote for Trump
Rep. Adam Kinzinger has long been skeptical of Donald Trump, but said that he "wanted to get" to a place where he could feel comfortable endorsing the GOP nominee.

But, as the Illinois congressman and Air Force pilot told Wolf Blitzer Wednesday evening, that window of support appears to be closed, saying "I don't see how I can get there anymore."
Billionaire Klarman slams Trump, vows to work for Clinton
Billionaire hedge fund manager Seth Klarman said on Wednesday he would work to get Hillary Clinton elected president of the United States because he finds recent comments by Donald Trump "shockingly unacceptable."

"His words and actions over the last several days are so shockingly unacceptable in our diverse and democratic society that it is simply unthinkable that Donald Trump could become our president," Klarman said of the Republican presidential nominee.

The president and chief executive of The Baupost Group told Reuters in an emailed statement that Trump's suggestion "that the election will be rigged is particularly dangerous."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:36 PM on August 3, 2016 [15 favorites]


posted by Hoopo you know if this weren't the country that elected GWB, I'd say this looks a lot like a false flag operation

All we need now is Alex Jones to scream, "Hitler took the tweets, Stalin took the tweets, Mao took the tweets, Fidel Castro took the tweets, Hugo Chavez took the tweets, and I'm here to tell you, 1776 will commence again if you try to take Trump's tweets!"
posted by mattdidthat at 4:37 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


God, it was so bizarre to be on the convention floor and see Alex Jones breeze past. Like who let the clown in? Ohhhhhhhhh.
posted by corb at 4:39 PM on August 3, 2016 [41 favorites]


one if by land, two if by sea, three if by tweet
posted by pyramid termite at 4:39 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


On the topic of Trump nicknames - Trevor Noah on The Daily Show has taken to calling him "Cinnamon Hitler" which I confess makes me snort.
posted by hilaryjade at 4:39 PM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


Excuse me? I didn't say I believed it - I linked a story indicating what he said. There's no need to call me condescending pet names.

Oh and I was so close to erasing that "honey" but I left it in as sort of being playful. I think I was mocking those people who would believe anything out of Manafort's mouth which would not include you of course. My bad, my apologies.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:40 PM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


I love cinnamon hitler as a nickname, but I think the Donnie thing has legs. As in shut the fuck up Donnie. Is that a meme yet?
posted by vrakatar at 4:41 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]




If the Twitter stops for an extended period, let's send his campaign a "personal and confidential" parcel containing a used iPhone with only the Twitter app installed, waiting for him to log in.
posted by infinitewindow at 4:42 PM on August 3, 2016 [12 favorites]


As in shut the fuck up Donnie. Is that a meme yet?

Only in my Chianti-laced dreams.
posted by Mooski at 4:43 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


posted by vrakatar I think the Donnie thing has legs. As in shut the fuck up Donnie. Is that a meme yet?

Ask and ye shall receive.
posted by mattdidthat at 4:43 PM on August 3, 2016 [14 favorites]


So here's a hot take. The insufferable, interminable, world-embarrassing length of the US election cycle is the only thing that saved us from a Trump presidency. If our season was shorter, he would have been able to keep up the act without losing his mask of comparative sanity, he would have stayed in the "novelty" honeymoon phase of the media blitz and stayed popular, and we would have had to vote before he had time to melt in the heat like an especially pissy snowman.
posted by penduluum at 4:43 PM on August 3, 2016 [67 favorites]


Flynn's up - "You'll hear about an intervention in the media. The intervention is by the American people on Washington DC. Ain't Hilary awful? Aren't cops and the military wonderful? Heeeeeere's Donnie!"
posted by Devonian at 4:43 PM on August 3, 2016


That rug really ties his head together
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:44 PM on August 3, 2016 [51 favorites]


Donnie is on now in Florida. He sounds drunk.
posted by vrakatar at 4:45 PM on August 3, 2016


If the Twitter stops for an extended period, let's send his campaign a "personal and confidential" parcel containing a used iPhone with only the Twitter app installed, waiting for him to log in.

Ivanka probably changed his password.

Keep an eye out for a @REALrealDonaldTrump account in the next few days
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:45 PM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]



I've just realized: at this point, Trump may be deliberately throwing the campaign. Realizing he can't win, but unable to back down out of pride, ego, and narcissism, he's going to make the campaign as horrible as possible until the RNC actually removes him.


Wishful thinking. Trump could feign physical illness for a pretext to drop out.

Then, he could run a fucking marathon the next day, and not a single person here would dare call out the lie.
posted by ocschwar at 4:45 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Have a tweetstorm about Trump's incredibly baffling inability to focus for even one second on literally anything
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:46 PM on August 3, 2016 [14 favorites]


"[...] Ain't Hilary awful? Aren't cops and the military wonderful? Heeeeeere's Donnie!"

We need to figure out this hamburger-tag thing right now.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 4:47 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


Donald Trump headed to Detroit for Economic Club speech
It will be an interesting venue for the controversial politician. Even though he won Michigan's primary election with 36.5% of the vote to 24.7% for Texas Sen. Ted Cruz and 24.2% for Ohio Gov. John Kasich, the business crowd in Detroit heavily backed other presidential candidates during the primary and none of them have gotten on board with contributions yet to the Trump campaign.[...]Matt Marsden, a political consultant with RevSix Data of Pontiac, said despite what several pundits are saying, he doubts that Michigan, which has supported the Democrat for president in every election cycle since 1992, is in play this year.

"I'm sure he enjoys a strong base of support, but I think that Michigan has been a Democratic state for a very long time and I’m not sure he’s the candidate to push this into a neck-and-neck race," he said. "The more we hear from him, the worse it gets. This is the most bizarre election year I’ve seen in my 20 years in business."
My bold just because I love it so much. Donald Trump: The more we hear from him the worse it gets.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:47 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


will no one rid us of these troublesome tweets
posted by poffin boffin at 4:48 PM on August 3, 2016 [12 favorites]


You guise keep mocking tiny cabbage hands manbaby and, come election day, there will be hell toupée.

My autocorrect always changes Trump to Turnip.
posted by guiseroom at 4:48 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


Finally, There’s Proof That Donald Trump Has Small Hands:
It’s one thing to tease Trump about having small hands, but it’s another to prove he does.

However, The Hollywood Reporter has done just that. Editors have printed a life-size image of Trump’s hands, which they created based on a bronzed handprint hanging in the New York branch of Madame Tussauds Wax Museum.

The handprint has been there since 1997, after artists from the museum made impressions of Trump for a wax figure. You can find a full-sized, printable version here [PDF].
posted by kirkaracha at 4:49 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


Show some respect people, Trump just received a Purple Heart for his sacrifices.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 4:51 PM on August 3, 2016 [32 favorites]


Now he's waving around that Purple Heart he didn't earn.
posted by zachlipton at 4:52 PM on August 3, 2016


The Hollywood Reporter must be angling for the Pulitzer.
posted by wabbittwax at 4:52 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


Is he literally waving it, or just metaphorically? I want to see the stolen valor crowd get in on this.
posted by neonrev at 4:53 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


nobody,not even the rain,has such small hands
posted by kirkaracha at 4:53 PM on August 3, 2016 [21 favorites]


Jenna Maroney + Donald Trump = Donald Maroney
posted by guiseroom at 4:54 PM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


Now he's waving around that Purple Heart he didn't earn.

he has to wave it around, it's small
posted by pyramid termite at 4:54 PM on August 3, 2016


Now Trump is literally opening an envelope on stage with a donation check from a Gold Star family, telling us the man told him it was more money than they can afford.
posted by zachlipton at 4:54 PM on August 3, 2016 [18 favorites]


So my wonderful dad was badly injured in Vietnam in 1970 (his fellow soldiers assumed he'd died) and he had some pretty deep scars all his life -- he was literally picking blue bits of shrapnel out of his skin for the next 40 years.

He never once bragged about his purple heart. He kept it in a drawer. I don't know what he'd make of this.
posted by mochapickle at 4:55 PM on August 3, 2016 [51 favorites]


(i do not know what is is about your twitter feed that closes
and opens;only my pyloric sphincter understands
the voice of your wig is deeper than all roses)
nobody,not even the rain,has such small hands
posted by Sublimity at 4:55 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


It is lucky for Trump that RNC teamed with him to raise money and that there are deluded small donors willing to spend on him, because the significant money people are apparently really loath to fund his runaway train.
posted by bearwife at 4:55 PM on August 3, 2016


He sounds very drunk.
posted by Yowser at 4:56 PM on August 3, 2016


That check thing was disgusting
posted by vrakatar at 4:57 PM on August 3, 2016 [16 favorites]


Many thanks to each of you who can listen to him and report back here. The sound of his voice makes the wine turn to vinegar in my stomach and causes my hand to twitch as I draw.

You are truly doing the MeFi's work.
posted by Mooski at 4:58 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


Trump predicts the NYT (est. 18651) will fold within three years.
posted by mochapickle at 4:58 PM on August 3, 2016


the NYT (est. 18651)

You're a timelord also? we should talk...
posted by vrakatar at 4:59 PM on August 3, 2016 [22 favorites]


.... such small hands
posted by Rumple at 4:59 PM on August 3, 2016


He sounds very drunk.

He doesn't drink and claims to have never had an alcoholic drink, ever.
posted by thelonius at 5:00 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Sorry, vrakatar, I was so apoplectic re: the check and the purple heart I could barely hit the keypad.
posted by mochapickle at 5:00 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


He's going on about it now. Having showed off his own six Gold Star families. How they're giving him more money than they can afford. And how the media cheapen things. He's banging on about this a lot.

And CNN covered anti-Trump stories more than two hundred times more than the Iran story. Disgusting!

And back on 35 percent tariffs. Keeo up at the back there!
posted by Devonian at 5:01 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump predicts the NYT (est. 18651) will fold within three years.

it takes a long time to fold the NYT when you have small hands, right, donnie?
posted by pyramid termite at 5:01 PM on August 3, 2016 [18 favorites]


Is he literally waving it, or just metaphorically? I want to see the stolen valor crowd get in on this.

This election is turning into a display of which veterans' groups are just chest-thumping blowhards and which ones actually give a damn about their stated causes. Rolling Thunder was fine with Trump showing up to speak at their event in DC and very clearly blew off his statements about McCain. Meanwhile a lot of other groups (VFW, IAVA, others) have been livid about Trump's attacks on the Khans.

An Iraq war vet friend of mine said on Facebook yesterday that he's on the mailing lists for six different veterans' groups, and normally they steer clear of this type of politics but they've all lit up about Trump in the last few days.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:02 PM on August 3, 2016 [15 favorites]


Our leaders are controlled by lobbyists. I've hired a few. They're very good.
posted by Devonian at 5:02 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Clinton has been hammering him today on outsourcing jobs. I'll be interested to see what he thinks up to say about that. That issue should hit home with his (shrinking) base.
posted by bearwife at 5:02 PM on August 3, 2016


>he has to wave it around, it's small

Aaaand that's most of what you need to know about Donald Trump.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:02 PM on August 3, 2016 [15 favorites]


I really can't understand the thought processes of someone who wouldn't find that disgusting.
posted by Artw at 5:04 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


re: Orange Julius Caesar, I could definitely see a victorious Donald establishing his surname as a title and ruling as Trump Donald I. Members of the various dynasties could compete in some combination of election and Ottoman-style succession bloodbath to become Trump Donald II, second of his dynasty, or Trump Chelsea I, third ruler and second Trump of her dynasty. All Trumps definitely would receive the ordinal I immediately upon their accession without waiting for a second ruler of that name.

Trump predicts the NYT (est. 18651) will fold within three years.

Carlos Slim could straight up pay all the operating expenses of his paper for at least a decade easy...
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 5:04 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


I want Trump to keep harping on the gold star thing, because it's way more likely that his grinding disrespect for veterans might finally wear away the veneer of "Truly Supporting the Troops" the gop has managed to cling onto than years of open neglect and disrespect in the legislature has.
posted by neonrev at 5:07 PM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


Kinzinger is the first GOP pol who's up for re-election to dump Trump, so that's a major breach in the wall.

the avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote
posted by murphy slaw at 5:07 PM on August 3, 2016 [21 favorites]


This election has me finally reading Twitter, because it has the breakingest breaking news. But I still do not understand Twitter. If you're going to post three paragraphs of commentary, why would you do it on a platform that limits you to 140 characters? These 37-part tweetstorms that take half a mile of screen real estate for three paragraphs are ridiculous.

And don't even get me started on these kids, with their Marilyn Manson hippity-hop music and their pants!
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:07 PM on August 3, 2016 [21 favorites]


I love the thirtysomething dude with the pink bow tie, checked shirt, khakis, and rolled-up shirtsleeves. He's one of Tucker Carlson's padawans.
posted by mattdidthat at 5:08 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


why would you do it on a platform that limits you to 140 characters?

"I have a lot to say, but this is the only space where I have your attention, so I'll have to make do"
posted by prize bull octorok at 5:09 PM on August 3, 2016 [18 favorites]


NYT (est. 18651)

Your using the Persian calendar for notation, aren't you?
posted by My Dad at 5:09 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


I love the thirtysomething dude with the pink bow tie, checked shirt, khakis, and rolled-up shirtsleeves. He's one of Tucker Carlson's padawans.


He was yawning and then covered his mouth with his sign.
posted by zutalors! at 5:09 PM on August 3, 2016


Last speech he was all over the NRA's support; this time he says he'll stop cop killers. But police have got to stop making mistakes, because the media blow them up out of proportion (I paraphrase, with more syllables).
posted by Devonian at 5:10 PM on August 3, 2016


Note the pretzel action on the cameras this time.
posted by mochapickle at 5:10 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Wow, that Guardian article, really made my day. The quotes are so fantastic!
posted by snofoam at 5:10 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


The insufferable, interminable, world-embarrassing length of the US election cycle is the only thing that saved us from a Trump presidency.

(One thought, also, for the reason behind Brexit: short campaign; liars able to maintain facade for long enough.)
posted by Quagkapi at 5:11 PM on August 3, 2016 [17 favorites]


Actually, Trump trying to fire Pence would offer him a way out. "He's a loser. He failed to support me, which the VP's only job. You don't take a loser into an election." The RNC would refuse to let him "fire" Pence (I don't think there's any way for anyone to do that?) so Trump would either resign or go third-party.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:12 PM on August 3, 2016


hurm.
posted by vrakatar at 5:13 PM on August 3, 2016


George W. Bush Delivers Critique of Donald Trumps Policies
From the Wall Street Journal:
Without naming Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump, former President George W. Bush delivered an incisive critique of his policies of “isolationism, nativism and protectionism” at a private fundraiser in Cincinnati on Tuesday for Ohio Sen. Rob Portman, according to four people who attended.
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 5:13 PM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


Orange Julius Caesar

Little hands Caesars
posted by obscure simpsons reference at 5:13 PM on August 3, 2016


OK but it stays in Canada all year at the Hockey Hall of Fame except for during the Finals...

How about the cup follows the ice. When you can play ice hockey outside on naturally frozen ice, you can host the cup. So if you win the finals, your team can't host/display the cup until it is cold enough outside to defend the title. Let's even say that it just has to get cold enough for 96-straight hours somewhere in the state/province in which the team is based.

This gives Canadian teams an obvious advantage and more incentive to win and it gives US hockey fans a HUGE incentive to combat climate change. If the Dallas Stars win the cup, they might not get to see it after the initial cuddle session. That'll be so sad for them. I miss the North Stars.
posted by VTX at 5:15 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


When GWB is the voice of wisdom and reason, you know shit's gone through the guard rail.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:16 PM on August 3, 2016 [62 favorites]


Wait what, he's now pulling out his own Gold Star family supporters and saying that they are willing to give more than they can afford to make sure Trump is elected?

And he didn't say that he returned the check with a massive donation to help them out?

And he promised that he would quit accepting donations from veterans and families of veterans and self fund?

Hrmm I'm shocked by this turn of events...
posted by vuron at 5:16 PM on August 3, 2016 [14 favorites]


Been thinking about him going third party. That could happen. Meanwhile, Sasha Obama is getting first hand experience on how real people work and live. Warning- link goes to Boston Herald, a right wing paper. Maybe Newt will wander in there and she can wait on him? That would be cool.
posted by vrakatar at 5:19 PM on August 3, 2016


Wait what, he's now pulling out his own Gold Star family supporters and saying that they are willing to give more than they can afford to make sure Trump is elected?

Yes. That is what happened.

And he didn't say that he returned the check with a massive donation to help them out?

No.

And he promised that he would quit accepting donations from veterans and families of veterans and self fund?

No.
posted by zachlipton at 5:20 PM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


Meanwhile, Sasha Obama is getting first hand experience on how real people work and live.

Yeah there's now a non-trivial chance she'll have to quit after this kind of article. It's really not ok to do this to her.
posted by zachlipton at 5:22 PM on August 3, 2016 [24 favorites]


John Noonan in US News:
"Trump is Trump," observes John Noonan, a former national security aide to Mitt Romney and Jeb Bush who has sworn off voting for the GOP nominee this year. "You can pull somebody out of the insane asylum and staff him with the best people in the business, and he's still going to be in the parking lot screaming about the book of Revelations and there's nothing you can do about it. Hillary's the placekicker on the field. She's shanking every kick. And Trump's the guy pleasuring himself in the stands."
posted by lalex at 5:22 PM on August 3, 2016 [27 favorites]


I'm a great negotiator, so I will settle this Trudeau trade:

Canada trades:

Justin Trudeau
the Toronto Maple Leafs

The USA trades:

the Colorado Avalanche, who will be immediately relocated to Quebec City and resume wearing their beautiful powder-blue uniforms

Peter Thiel's vampire tech, which will be used to rejuvenate the Stasny brothers and Michel Goulet.

USA, I know that taking the Leafs is a high price to pay but you probably won't be able to pry Trudeau out of Canada without taking a giant garbage contract along with him. That's just how business works in today's NHL.
posted by Sauce Trough at 5:23 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


The audio feed has lost the audience noise, so it's just Trump speaking into virtual silence.

Bizarre experience. But whatever it is that kicked in has kicked in, because he's a lot more coherent than this morning, in the sense that the words join together.

Hm - now going on about new Obamacare charges (I think) going up by 60 percent on November 1st, though that might be in Texas- hard to say. "Election changing. Maybe I don't want the election changed, but it'll be election changing anyway."

Going to make Apple iPhones in this country, folks!

Countries are devaluing their currencies, and he won't allow it. That'c cheating!

(In Daytona, he said that he predicted Brexit and that it would devalue the currency, and that was a good thing. So I guess it depends, right?)
posted by Devonian at 5:23 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


When GWB is the voice of wisdom and reason, you know shit's gone through the guard rail.

when cheney doesn't have his hand up the back of W's shirt he can make the occasional utterance that sounds almost like a normal human
posted by murphy slaw at 5:23 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


Been thinking about him going third party.

This has been discussed in one of the many megathreads, but just to reiterate -- he cannot go third party. Ballot deadlines have come and gone in nearly half the states already.
posted by saturday_morning at 5:25 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


USA, I know that taking the Leafs is a high price to pay but you probably won't be able to pry Trudeau out of Canada without taking a giant garbage contract along with him.

If Canada kicks in a future draft pick, we have a deal.
posted by drezdn at 5:26 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump supporters chant, "Lock her up." (Not "Put Hillary on Trial," no fascism here).

Seriously, is Hillary actually running for her freedom? Would Trump appoint an Attorney General who would charge Hillary for a crime? Shouldn't we take Trump at his word?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:26 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


This has been discussed in one of the many megathreads, but just to reiterate -- he cannot go third party. Ballot deadlines have come and gone in nearly half the states already.

Doesn't mean he can't DO it. Just means he can't compete in half the states.
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:27 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


You can pull somebody out of the insane asylum and staff him with the best people in the business, and he's still going to be in the parking lot screaming about the book of Revelations and there's nothing you can do about it. Hillary's the placekicker on the field. She's shanking every kick. And Trump's the guy pleasuring himself in the stands.

Why do I think this is pulled from a database of actual GOP candidate incidents, and isn't just a hypothetical example?

Of course, their solution would not be "quit tapping the insane asylum for candidates" but "make sure there are no stands."
posted by maxwelton at 5:27 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Shouldn't we take Trump at his word?

No. In fact, we shouldn't take him at all.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:28 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


she'll have to quit after this kind of article

Pretty sure her end date was negotiated to coincide with the start of the Big Prezzy Vacay. But good on her, it is a freaking slamdance in the straunts here now. Happy August.
posted by vrakatar at 5:29 PM on August 3, 2016


posted by lalex at 5:22 PM on August 3:

From John Noonan in US News:
" Hillary's the placekicker on the field. She's shanking every kick. And Trump's the guy pleasuring himself in the stands."

Can I get a definition of "shanking a kick"? Is that good? I'm picturing Lucy and Charlie Brown.
posted by mcduff at 5:30 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Seriously, is Hillary actually running for her freedom? Would Trump appoint an Attorney General who would charge Hillary for a crime? Shouldn't we take Trump at his word?

I would assume that yes, he would follow through on that threat if he were elected.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 5:32 PM on August 3, 2016


Also, don't a lot of states have sore loser laws where you can't run as an independent if you had previously run for a party nomination? I mean they're targeted at people who lost the nomination, but I'm not sure how specific the wording is.
posted by ckape at 5:32 PM on August 3, 2016


Shanking means missing it off to the side.
posted by drezdn at 5:32 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


The only sports definition I see is from golf:

tr.v. shanked, shank·ing, shanks Sports
To hit (a golf ball) with the heel of the club, causing the ball to veer in the wrong direction.

posted by thelonius at 5:33 PM on August 3, 2016


I thought shanking was what you did to somebody with a knife you made from a spoon in prison, but maybe I'm misinformed.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:33 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


It pains me to relive this, but here's a shanked kick.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:33 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


Trump seems to be playing with a new line today, basically that people who "would never in a million years" vote for him still "have to" vote for Trump because of the Supreme Court, that Hillary would put "Bernie's people' on the Court and the country would be "like Venezuela." He kept saying "you have to" vote for him over and over like bullying people into voting for him is going to go over well.
posted by zachlipton at 5:34 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


thought shanking was what you did to somebody with a knife

Shivving. What one does with a shiv.
posted by vrakatar at 5:35 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


It pains me to relive this, but here's a shanked kick.

TOO SOON!
posted by chris24 at 5:36 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Apparently religious leaders don't have the right to speak. He'll fix that.

And you can hate him as much as you like, say you'll never vote for him, but Supreme Court! We have a list of high-quality judges! The best! Or it'll be Venezuela.Got the list from the Federalist Society.

And whoever the next president is... (boos audible off-mike) [pause] I hope it's going to be me, [That really did sound as if he didn't expect or particularly want to be Prez. Odd.]
posted by Devonian at 5:37 PM on August 3, 2016




I honestly thought a shiv was a small shank. A sharpened toothbrush = Shiv, a sharpened chunk of metal = shank.
posted by neonrev at 5:37 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


Sorry chris24.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:37 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Perhaps shivs and shanks are regional.
posted by vrakatar at 5:38 PM on August 3, 2016


Ruth Bader Ginsburg is 83
Anthony Kennedy is 79
Stephen Breyer is 77
Clarence Thomas is 67
Samuel Alito is 66
John Roberts is 61
Sonia Sotomayor is also 61
Elena Kagan is 56

Trump delenda est.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:39 PM on August 3, 2016 [13 favorites]


No, the knife is a shiv, but the correct verb is 'to shank'. Urban Dictionary's got my back on this one.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:39 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


I'm not a student of NATO. I just did deals, deals, deals, deals. Buildings, buildings, buildings. But I've got common sense. I said it was obsolete. And when they stopped laughing, four days later, they said I'm right. And four days later, they say NATO is opening an anti-terrorist unit. But I didn't get credit. (again, paraphrased)
posted by Devonian at 5:40 PM on August 3, 2016


The only sports definition I see is from golf

Definitely in golf. Here's some golf shanking highlights...

"That looked to be a shank."

"That [shank] was fortunate not to take someone's teeth out in the gallery."

Etc.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:41 PM on August 3, 2016


>Hillary would put "Bernie's people' on the Court and the country would be "like Venezuela."

Perhaps we are meant to imagine her as the titular character in the song Matilda, which warns us that she will "take me money and run a-Venezuela". Great, now I've got the chorus stuck in my head. Thanks, 3rd-Term Obama.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:43 PM on August 3, 2016


The amount of anti-Semitic hate (for the avoidance of all doubt since it's necessary to say this, this is stuff about ovens and gas chambers, not criticism of the State of Israel) that scrolls by on the Trump YouTube live chat, despite its complete irrelevance to any topic at hand, is astonishing.
posted by zachlipton at 5:44 PM on August 3, 2016 [12 favorites]


Thanks for schooling (skooling?) me on the shanking issue.
posted by mcduff at 5:45 PM on August 3, 2016


I guess he forgot he was trying to court Bernie supporters over to his side.
posted by ckape at 5:46 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


OMG. Donald Jr. and Eric apparently just left for another overseas hunting trip (warning-- page full of idiots posing with dead animals). I guess they found the only activity more reprehensible than helping their dad get out of this mess.
posted by acidic at 5:46 PM on August 3, 2016 [26 favorites]


Hillary would put "Bernie's people' on the Court

guess he's done courting the buster contingent…
posted by murphy slaw at 5:46 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


"I give you my solemn oath I will never ever be in a bicycle race during a major negotiation."
posted by zachlipton at 5:47 PM on August 3, 2016


Again with the Ivory Soap. WTF.
posted by mochapickle at 5:47 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Remember when all the pundits were saying Trump was done saying outrageous things and would pivot to the center for the general election?

Remember that? Good times.

Nope not only is he not pivoting to the center he's going full out right wing loon.

And of course the Green candidate is going full WOO and FUD because homeopathy and wireless sensitivity are totes real.

Hell this election is making the Libertarians seem somewhat coherent in comparison.
posted by vuron at 5:49 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


Clinton Library releases Merrick Garland files:
Clinton Library files released Wednesday on Supreme Court nominee Merrick Garland provide more evidence of GOP support for Garland two decades ago when he was nominated to a federal appeals court in Washington.
At this point they should just pull the nomination and say, "hey, you guys wanted to let the next president pick."
posted by kirkaracha at 5:50 PM on August 3, 2016 [14 favorites]


From the Youtube chat:
MAKE US SMART AGAIN!!!
posted by Foci for Analysis at 5:50 PM on August 3, 2016


(Long rant about NATO spending and why should we pay to protect Japan, and Kerry breaking his leg, and the Persians (!) being snarky and wanting Saudi,,, that petered out) and now it's Ivory Soap and Special K and knocking the hell out of ISIS and we're back in the Random Zone)

"And we're going to have millions of people come in, but they're going to come in legally."

So Donald just pledged for massive immigration. That's... that's... a soundbite I hope someone caught.
posted by Devonian at 5:51 PM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


And we're back to "You Can't Always Get What You Want" as exit music. I'm going to apply Trump's Razor and conclude he simply has never listened to the lyrics.
posted by zachlipton at 5:52 PM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


If they build that wall, we'll be trapped in here with all those awful Trump voters.
posted by mochapickle at 5:52 PM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


Donald Trump is for everything he is against.
posted by drezdn at 5:52 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


So Donald just pledged for massive immigration. That's... that's... a soundbite I hope someone caught.

Earlier today he bragged about how many Mexicans he's employed. I mean, you could parse it charitably, but we're talking Trump here.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:54 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


And we're back to "You Can't Always Get What You Want" as exit music. I'm going to apply Trump's Razor and conclude he simply has never listened to the lyrics.

He may have seen the polls and decided he was the hero Gotham needs.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:56 PM on August 3, 2016


CNN is airing a Libertarian party town hall at 9pm ET tonight. Should be interesting to see how they pitch themselves to sad republicans.
posted by gatorae at 5:57 PM on August 3, 2016


And we're back to 'You Can't Always Get What You Want' as exit music.

He should open with "Sympathy for the Devil":
Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul to waste
...
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game
...
I shouted out,
Who killed the Kennedys?
When after all
It was Ted Cruz' dad
...
Just call me Lucifer
'Cause I'm in need of some restraint
posted by kirkaracha at 5:59 PM on August 3, 2016 [16 favorites]


they'll be fine if they can avoid talking about seasteading
posted by murphy slaw at 5:59 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


So does anyone know who this mysterious plant-builder-in-Mexico friend is that Trump keeps bringing up? Does this person exist? I'm googling and finding nothing.
posted by mochapickle at 6:00 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


I was thinking about how today at his rally, Trump revisited the story of how he mocked a reporter. I think he spends a lot of time revisiting stories until they reflect the world as he sees it, with himself as the hero, natch. He is going to keep telling that story until he gets the headline: Trump, true champion of the handicapped.

Can you imagine daily life with him? It must wear out his family to make sure they tell the stories the "right way." The (hypothetical) story "how he forgot all about Ivanka's big 16th birthday bash at the museum then went home, watched TV, had a few beers, and fell asleep" becomes "that time Daddy worked so hard he had to rush home and take a nap before the party and the stupid butler forgot to wake him up."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:02 PM on August 3, 2016 [20 favorites]


His plant building buddy is married to Meredith McIver.
posted by Yowser at 6:02 PM on August 3, 2016 [14 favorites]


"I want to watch television. I want to watch Ivory Snow, I want to see cereal, something, Kellogg, something anything."

This has a strange free-association ring to it. Trump signed an anti-pornography pledge. Marilyn Chambers was, before her porn career, a model for Ivory Snow. John Harvey Kellog was notoriously anti-masturbation.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 6:03 PM on August 3, 2016 [18 favorites]


I'm glad - in a way - I listened to both speeches. No surprises, a shit-ton of misdirection (at best) and you could spend all day picking apart the contradictions and the unsupported (and unsupportable) promises, and all that sort of thing, but:

There were two different Trumps. The first one was really incoherent, low-energy, looked shot, was clearly (as pilots say) well behind the aircraft. The second was revitalised, managed to hold themes for thirty seconds - or more! - got some jabs in (was genuinely funny at one point, and even had - for Trump - a couple of shots of self-deprecation, but they didn't last past a phase or two), and had clearly had his coffee. Or at least his nap. But the effect was definitely of someone who had to keep reminding himself that he wanted to be Prez, or at least had an expectation of it, and the crowd caught that and didn't like it - he picked up that part of his game at the end.

So, for him a remarkably gaffe-free day (although he's still misfiring on trying to patch up earlier cockups), but the inertia of the campaign is clearly against him.
posted by Devonian at 6:03 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


I read ivory snow as television static.
posted by drezdn at 6:06 PM on August 3, 2016


So does anyone know who this mysterious plant-builder-in-Mexico friend is that Trump keeps bringing up?

John Baron.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:06 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm shocked that the only thug bad I can remember Trump doing today is getting fact-checked and people realising nuclear weapons would fly within about 18 minute of him assuming Presidency.

That's a good day for him.
posted by Yowser at 6:06 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


>"I want to watch television. I want to watch Ivory Snow, I want to see cereal, something, Kellogg, something anything."

The bad thing about this is, when they make a Bad Lip Reading of it, it'll be impossible to distinguish from the original.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 6:07 PM on August 3, 2016 [18 favorites]


Going back to waaaay earlier in the thread: I'm a short-term Sconnie, and I'm not in his district, but I'd love for Paul Ryan to get primaried out, even if his replacement is the most horrible person ever and actually gets elected, just because Ryan is currently the highest ranking Republican in government and despite the odiousness of his policy positions is fairly well respected. If Hillary wins, I'd expect that Ryan would run in 2020 and could quite well beat her, so I'd be quite happy with his political career getting kneecapped immediately. Heck, I even think Ryan is mostly a decent guy, just totally misguided in his thought in the same way that Mr. Burns thought the best way to clean up the oceans was to scrape the entire ocean floor clean and process the results into slurry.
posted by LionIndex at 6:09 PM on August 3, 2016 [22 favorites]


Since Trump seems to believe everything he sees on TV I wonder how long it will be before he starts to complain about Obama's failures to defend NYC against the Chitauri.

If not for the Republican businessman Tony Stark, say why isn't he running for mayor or something?

Electing Hillary Clinton will probably leave us weak when Thanos or Darkseid invade
posted by vuron at 6:10 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


Bad Lip reading should just take their script straight from a transcript.
posted by drezdn at 6:10 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Reuters has another angle on the intervention idea.
Another Republican source said Trump's family members, who have played an influential role in his campaign, were aware that an intervention was needed to get Trump back on track. One idea being floated was to have a senior adviser travel with Trump to help him stay on message.
A senior adviser? Who on earth would take the job of telling Trump what to do and say? Who could they possibly get that Trump would listen to? I honestly don't think he has any heroes or people he looks up to.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:11 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Ivory Snow

Maybe he's getting big game hunting and memories of the 80s all jumbled up?

Like so:

Ivory Snow – Cocaine Accessories
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:11 PM on August 3, 2016


Tim Tebow.
posted by drezdn at 6:12 PM on August 3, 2016


Ivanka, probably, but I am just getting more and more creeped out by their relationship.
posted by corb at 6:13 PM on August 3, 2016 [14 favorites]


Yeah I don't think Tim wants that job.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:13 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Right. Now I know why I knew that was a thing: ivory cocaine straws previously on Metafilter.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:13 PM on August 3, 2016


You know, even Wormtongue would be a massive improvement.
posted by neonrev at 6:13 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


When's Meredith going to come apologize for this week?
posted by zutalors! at 6:14 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]



His plant building buddy is married to Meredith McIver


But the marriage was never consummated, and Buddy fled to Essos after murdering his father. Meredith was transported to Trump Tower, where Reek Christie is about to effect a rescue.

I am assuming MeFi's Merideth fan fiction editorship.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:15 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


When Hillary (or any other presidential candidate, for that matter) talks about someone specific, she names them. It's not "some guy who builds plants," it's the actual name of the person. Often with a video package ready.

Trump never has names. He never has anybody on deck to be the person he's talking about. Those checks from Gold Star families? Prove it. Give us their names.

Media needs to call him out on that too.
posted by yesster at 6:16 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


Holy shit, we're only through Wednesday. And with the way trump tweets, we're not even that. This is fucking exhausting.
posted by codacorolla at 6:16 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Ivanka, probably, but I am just getting more and more creeped out by their relationship.

I never saw this clip of Trump talking about his and Ivanka's mutual love of sex until yesterday, and I thought I'd seen everything. Seriously, how does this not destroy the man's campaign on the spot? It's just...unfathomable. (2:09, if the time signature does not work for you.)
posted by argybarg at 6:17 PM on August 3, 2016 [45 favorites]


How much can his family actually care about this when Don Jr and Draco Eric just flew abroad to murder exotic animals? Your dad is falling apart live on TV in front of the entire nation and you flee the country?

Unless Ivanka is behind this...
posted by sallybrown at 6:18 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


How much can his family actually care about this when Don Jr and Draco Eric just flew abroad to murder exotic animals? Your dad is falling apart live on TV in front of the entire nation and you flee the country?

Especially if that U.S. News and World Report article has merit - they ARE the campaign staff at this point.
posted by codacorolla at 6:20 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


I never saw this clip yt of Trump talking about his and Ivanka's mutual love of sex until yesterday, and I thought I'd seen everything. Seriously, how does this not destroy the man's campaign on the spot? It's just...unfathomable. (2:09, if the time signature does not work for you.)

holy fuckballs.
posted by sallybrown at 6:20 PM on August 3, 2016 [34 favorites]


Does anyone else track /r/Politics on Reddit? I had just about given up on it, and peeking just now it seems to have swung wildly against Trump.

I have had a gut feeling for a while that there is manipulation in the pro-Trump/anti-Hillary/Pro-Bernie direction, given a standard 5,000 or so upvotes for every single post attacking her and burying anything positive.

Now it looks like, if that was true, someone just said "Screw it" and pulled the plug on the effort. Almost every post looks like somethign straight out of Metafilter.
posted by msalt at 6:20 PM on August 3, 2016 [13 favorites]


Trump: ‘I don’t know why we’re not leading by a lot’:
Speaking to a large crowd at Jacksonville Veterans Memorial Arena in Florida, Trump boasted about the turnout at his events, citing it as an indicator of his support.

“We go to Oklahoma, we had 25,000 people. We had 21,000 people in Dallas. We had 35,000 people in Mobile, Alabama. We have these massive crowds,” the Republican nominee said.
...
Trump then questioned how the attendance at his rallies hasn’t been reflected in the polls.

“I hear we’re leading Florida by a bit,” he said. “I don’t know why we’re not leading by a lot. Maybe crowds don’t make the difference.”
Oklahoma, Texas, and Alabama are all red states, jagoff. Of course your crowds are bigger there.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:21 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Huffington Post: Trump Silent On Zika Virus At 2 Florida Campaign Events
Pressed how he thinks the federal government ― which is responsible for coordinating research to fight the virus, and which he is campaigning to lead ― ought to respond, Trump again deferred to Scott.

“I would say that it’s up to Rick Scott. It depends on what he’s looking to do, because he really seems to have it under control in Florida,” Trump said. Scott said last week the government “needs to do their part.”
Bet you dollars to donuts that Clinton talks about controlling the spread of zika when she is in Florida. I just think it is an issue that Trump is not interested in. One of those "domestic issues" he would leave for Pence to deal with while he, Trump is making America Great Again.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:22 PM on August 3, 2016 [12 favorites]


Let's be honest, if somebody told you that Eric and Don Jr were investment bankers at Pierce and Pierce and that they were close personal friends with Patrick Bateman and Paul Allen nobody would even blink right?

I mean when you get tired of hunting exotic game why not engage in hunting the most dangerous prey if all
posted by vuron at 6:23 PM on August 3, 2016 [12 favorites]


Draw a circle for people in Mexico with the money to build plants. Another one for people in Mexico who are laundering cartel and/or bribe money. And a final circle for people in Mexico who would associate with Trump.

Now look at where the three circles intersect.

Sorry, I lost my train of thought, I just like telling people to draw circles.
posted by Doroteo Arango II at 6:25 PM on August 3, 2016 [29 favorites]


This is what has been getting me through (gleaned from one of these threads, I'm sure). Repeated daily viewings of this: Khaleesi is coming to Westeros.

Just watched that while John Parr's "Man in Motion" was playing in the background. It really helped. I recommend it.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 6:25 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Hell this election is making the Libertarians seem somewhat coherent in comparison.

So, Roommate From Brussels is here for one year more (she was originally going to be taking off right about now, but got another research fellowship here in the city that she's really stoked about). When she first found out about it, a couple months ago, I joked that 'Hey, this means that you'll be here for the election, and US politics is usually one of the better forms of entertainment around."

Now, back when I said that, this was when there was still a whole roster of GOP possibilities and everyone was still thinking "Trump? Come on....." Little did we know, at the time, that this particular election season was going to be quite this bonkers. She regularly skypes home, and I can only imagine what she must be telling the family (it's entirely in Flemish, but I've caught her saying "Trump" or "Hillary" now and then amid it all). She's recently asked me to explain the whole electoral college thing, and is currently bingewatching The West Wing.

--

Just today, while reading this thread, I was strangely reminded of an incident I saw in a club here in New York on St. Patrick's Day. An indie band who had a regular gig here in New York was having a U2 tribute concert at some club; the band invited a whole bunch of other artists to come and sing lead on various U2 songs while the band played backup. But a lucky person from the audience was going to get to come up and sing lead on "Pride In The Name Of Love" - and they were deciding who would get to do that by drawing names out of a hat.

The guy whose name they picked was both uproariously drunk and tone-deaf. When they saw how drunk he was, the band all sort of cringed slightly, but still gamely went on, and when he started singing they all cringed even more, but kept playing and singing backup, frozen smiles on all their faces. But he sucked. It was obvious he sucked.

And when he was done, he stayed put on stage and kept shouting 'WOOOOOO!" at the audience, who were snickering at the guy. "Okay, it's time to get off the stage now," our MC kept chirping at him, but he ignored her, continuing to shout "WOOOO!" into the mike. And then the audience dude hunched over the microphone and started to groan out another song - "All I want Is You," just as tone-deaf as his previous effort. The rest of the band had largely given up on talking him out of it and were pretty much working around him; but the bass player was standing there watching him. And finally, after the fourth or fifth line of the song, the bass player finally reached over and physically unplugged the cable from the guy's mike - and the guy never even noticed. He just finished singing that verse, oblivious to the fact that no one was listening, and finally shouted "WOOO!" one more time and left the stage.

....I am suddenly envisioning Trump as this guy and I'm expecting the bass player to come out and unplug his mike any minute now.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:25 PM on August 3, 2016 [50 favorites]


After the last 72 hours every charge no matter how crazy sounds like it might be true about the man. Case in point this medium article.
posted by humanfont at 6:26 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Oh people haven't been exposed to Trump's incest fantasies before now? What rock have you been living under? The man wants to turn Trump Tower into Craster's Keep.
posted by vuron at 6:26 PM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


Trump says Rick Scott "probably already does" have Zika under control.

I just can't. Fuck this ignorant motherfucker.
posted by gatorae at 6:27 PM on August 3, 2016 [22 favorites]


tivalasvegas tests Trump trolling tactics #3:

-Homeland Security official informs Mr. Trump that he'll need to produce proof of income including federal tax returns from the previous five years to be qualified to receive a security briefing

-Reporter: "Mr. Trump, what's your reaction to the recent CDC study concluding that each hour of airplane flight reduces a man's sperm count by 17.43 per cent?"

-trap Trump on elevator, cause him to blame fire inspectors
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:27 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


Bet you dollars to donuts that Clinton talks about controlling the spread of zika when she is in Florida.

Better yet - Kaine's publicly pushing for a special session of Congress to deal with the matter.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:29 PM on August 3, 2016 [12 favorites]


Oh people haven't been exposed to Trump's incest fantasies before now?

What could you be talking about?
posted by argybarg at 6:31 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Huffpo: Trump Boasts About Watching ‘Top Secret’ Iran Video Immediately After Becoming Eligible To Receive Classified Briefings
Donald Trump on Wednesday described vivid details from a video he said he had watched earlier in the day of Iranian officials unloading cash from an airplane. The money was part of a payment, announced earlier this year, from the U.S. to Iran to settle a decades-old dispute over an incomplete weapons sale.

“I’ll never forget the scene this morning,” Trump told the crowd in Daytona Beach, Florida, of what he said he had watched. “Iran ― I don’t think you’ve heard this anywhere but here ― Iran provided all of that footage, the tape, of taking that money off that airplane.

“Over there, where that plane landed, top secret, they don’t have a lot of paparazzi, you know,” Trump said. “The paparazzi doesn’t do so well over there.” But “they have a perfect tape, obviously done by a government camera, and the tape is of the people taking the money off the plane. It’s a military tape. It’s a tape that was a perfect angle, nice and steady.”

No publicly available video matches what Trump described. This raises the possibility that Trump was either fabricating the contents of a non-existent video, or he was disclosing information to which he has newly been granted access.
(emphasis mine)

Giant grain of salt, obviously, but that provides some interesting context to his speech earlier today. Or it doesn't! That's the wonderful thing about classified information.
posted by cjelli at 6:31 PM on August 3, 2016 [24 favorites]


Mother Jones: Donald Trump Roundup For Wednesday Evening

Nothing about Ivory Snow, Pretzel cameras, or checks from Gold Star families, but a round up of the main stories as reported by other papers such as the Daily Beast:
Manafort said on NBC’s Meet the Press this past weekend that the change in language on Ukraine “absolutely did not come from the Trump campaign.” But this account is contradicted by four sources in the room, both for and against the language.

....Meanwhile, records for the meeting seem to have disappeared. A co-chair for the national security platform subcommittee told The Daily Beast that the minutes for the meeting have been discarded. The Republican National Committee had no comment when asked whether this was standard procedure for all the subcommittees.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:31 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Can you imagine daily life with him? It must wear out his family to make sure they tell the stories the "right way." The (hypothetical) story "how he forgot all about Ivanka's big 16th birthday bash at the museum then went home, watched TV, had a few beers, and fell asleep" becomes "that time Daddy worked so hard he had to rush home and take a nap before the party and the stupid butler forgot to wake him up."

Oh man you just gave a bunch of us flashbacks

Fuuuuuck gas lighting
posted by schadenfrau at 6:35 PM on August 3, 2016 [35 favorites]




Oh man you just gave a bunch of us flashbacks

Fuuuuuck gas lighting


Yup. This x1000
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 6:40 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


Wait I don't understand Schandenfrau were you one of the Crawley family members on Downton Abbey?
posted by vuron at 6:42 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


I always feel like those of us who suffered as children at the hands of fucked-up adults make up a secret society. I never thought we'd be a voting coalition.
posted by argybarg at 6:42 PM on August 3, 2016 [54 favorites]


Ben Carson says that the Khan family should apologize to Donald Trump.

Yeah, guys, make sure you keep this Khan story going! Because eventually you'll WIN the argument and it will make Hillary Clinton look bad!

Also, in correcting her "It's all Time Traveling Obama's fault" statement, his spokesperson said:
“But Donald Trump wasn’t there,” Pierson said. “That is the only point. That’s the only point. Donald Trump is being blamed for something he had nothing to do with, and he did not attack this family.”
So apparently now they think the issue is whether Trump personally caused the Khans' son's death? Because I don't think anyone was saying that...

Also, it's Hillary's fault, or something.
posted by mmoncur at 6:45 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Never mind I remembered the other usage of the term gas lighting after my comment.

All the throwbacks to Julius Caesar and Crassus have my poor brain confused.
posted by vuron at 6:45 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


That NAMBLA rumor seems to be entirely based on a single sarcastic Reddit post but given the amount of attention that Trump gives to every tiny slight against him, I am hoping he will bring it up himself in order to refute it
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:46 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


No publicly available video matches what Trump described. This raises the possibility that Trump was either fabricating the contents of a non-existent video, or he was disclosing information to which he has newly been granted access.

Interesting. Trump's a fantasist, but he's not good on details. Sure sounds like he saw an actual tape, and there's only one source for that.

Perhaps today will provide a nice juicy new scandal after all. He certainly didn't major on what he saw at the Jacksonville event.
posted by Devonian at 6:48 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


I guess Carson has decided to hook his grift campaign to Trump's grift campaign permanently.

I remember when people were spouting off all sorts of nonsense about Carson being a great man called to duty, a man of integrity and deep moral values. Nope, he's a huckster who has a remarkably grave case of engineer's disease or more precisely the doctor/dentist version of that disease.
posted by vuron at 6:49 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]


Donald Trump’s disastrous fortnight:
Mr Trump now trails Mrs Clinton with college-educated whites, a group that has voted Republican since polling began, by a five-point margin. If Mr Trump cannot close that gap, he will probably lose.

You might think this would have given a pragmatic tycoon, pursuing success with the focused greed of a truffle-hog, a moment’s pause. Yet the incontinence Mr Trump has displayed since the convention has been astounding.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:50 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


Pretty sure my pathological narcissist father will be voting Trump, despite being Latino. How could he not? Trump's like a brother from another mother. They've even got "Ride of the Valkyries" in common.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 6:51 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


I seriously think that the anti-porn pledge that Donnie signed really turned the techbro neckbeards against him.

Porn is pretty much the 3rd rail for those guys.
posted by yesster at 6:52 PM on August 3, 2016 [15 favorites]


Wait, I thought he was saying the tape was shot by the Iranian military, is he getting his secret intelligence briefings from Iran?
posted by ckape at 6:52 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


No publicly available video matches what Trump described.

I will bet you many dollars that what he actually saw was some stock footage of a cargo plane being unloaded that was running behind whatever cable news he had on today.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:53 PM on August 3, 2016 [18 favorites]


It was the footage in his head.
posted by argybarg at 6:54 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


It's called footage-in-mouth disease.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:56 PM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


I fear whoever the Republicans will replace Trump with.

That said, they're already in disarray, and -- unless the Republicans have a pretty solid conspiracy going -- they're far behind where they ought to be. The Clinton campaign probably has attack ads against Cruz and the others ready to go, just in case.

Or that's what I keep telling myself.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 6:56 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


Or a coalmine canary they put in the briefing to fuck with him. (Less likely, but I can dream)
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:56 PM on August 3, 2016


Woohoo College-Educated White People actually getting on the right side of history. I knew that I wouldn't have to go "Don't look at me I didn't vote for the guy" anytime one of my various less privileged friends and acquaintances ask me to explain whatever regressive and offensive shit comes out of generic Republican X's mouth.

Because some of them will go "Ok sure" like they can't trust me not to go into the ballot box and secretly vote Republican.

I know it's totally "white people problems" but not every white guy is actively seeking to return us to antebellum times just most of us.
posted by vuron at 6:58 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


Hillary's the placekicker on the field. She's shanking every kick.

Wait I don't know football, do people stab the football at some point?
posted by emjaybee at 6:58 PM on August 3, 2016 [16 favorites]


Only in BloodBowl!
posted by vrakatar at 6:59 PM on August 3, 2016 [20 favorites]


Wait Trump wants to ban porn? Just live-action porn right? He's going to leave anime alone right? Because if he messes with people's waifus all the alt-right trolls on The_Donald would go apeshit. They are totally expecting him to make anime real. That and they typically call pornstars 3DPD because they aren't pure like their moeblob harem fantasies. Yes the alt-right is really that psychologically damaged folks. People don't hang out on 8chan and wizardchan because they are healthy individuals.
posted by vuron at 7:03 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


Wait I don't know football, do people stab the football at some point?

Only if Tom Brady is playing

(I know nothing of deflategate, but I like to think it was done with a pin.)
posted by neonrev at 7:04 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


Shanking the football is kicking it off to the side. An extremely errant kick is sometimes called a shankopotamus, at least by the Philly Voice's Jimmy Kempski.
posted by msalt at 7:06 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]



I always feel like those of us who suffered as children at the hands of fucked-up adults make up a secret society. I never thought we'd be a voting coalition.


Um wait I want a secret society tho
posted by schadenfrau at 7:07 PM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


Well, if you want to get Latinate on him...

Caligula was a nickname, after all, standing for 'Little Boot', after a soldier's hob-nailed boot called the caliga.

A soldier's glove, in Latin, is cestus - I don't know whether it forms the same diminutive, but Cestulus - or even Incestulus - might fit.
posted by Devonian at 7:11 PM on August 3, 2016 [31 favorites]


[secret handshake]
posted by argybarg at 7:11 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


I definitely feel sorry for anyone trying to follow these metafilter threads from a vantage point removed from the US and it's culture as well as geek culture and every other sort of out of left-field cultural or historical reference.

Blood bowl references
Roman Triumvirate references
the ever present Hamilton references
professional football references (handegg not actual civilized football)
lots and lots of dank memes
metafilter in-jokes


etc all at a rate of about a thousand posts a day. Cortex is probably sticking pins into a effigy of matthowie right about now and going "why have thou foresaken me!"
posted by vuron at 7:11 PM on August 3, 2016 [39 favorites]


Hillary isn't shanking the kicks at all. She knocked it out of the park at the DNC. Since then she's realised Donald hasn't realised they swapped ends at half time. So she's given him the kickoff, and stood back as he dribbled the ball straight into his own net, didn't question why he got the next kickoff, and done it again.
posted by Francis at 7:11 PM on August 3, 2016 [48 favorites]


and every other sort of out of left-field cultural or historical reference.

I, for one, welcome our new pop-culture reference overlords!
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:18 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


It pains me to relive this, but here's a shanked kick.

Nope, he hooked it. A shank would have missed wide right. /pedant
posted by zakur at 7:20 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Why do our fathers like this man?

Post-stroke, speechless, my father lay in his bed and flipped off GWB every time he saw him on TV. I can only imagine the language he might've had for Trump.

As in shut the fuck up Donnie. Is that a meme yet?

He is definitely OUT OF HIS ELEMENT but I think this is hard on the memory of the late, lamented Donnie Kerabatsos.

Trump tapped Chris Christie to lead his transition team in May.

Lead them to where?
posted by octobersurprise at 7:23 PM on August 3, 2016 [10 favorites]


I don't get this term "shanked" when applied to golfing. Last I knew there only two things: "hook" to send the ball veering off to the left or "slice" which is to send the ball veering off to the right.

Is "shank" a new term for golf?
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 7:24 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Shank is when you hit it on the shank of the club. I've heard it for decades.
posted by argybarg at 7:25 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Trump tapped Chris Christie to lead his transition team in May.

Lead them to where?

Across this bridge . . . . that has a gate on it.
posted by jamjam at 7:26 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Shank (or Shank Shot)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:35 PM on August 3, 2016


To put the election in terms of "Are You Being Served?" Trump is young Mr. Grace. Hillary is Mr. Rumbold. Grace Brothers is America. Captain Peacock is Bill Clinton.
posted by drezdn at 7:35 PM on August 3, 2016


There's a weird pop culture references I see sometimes from Trump people on facebook, using Bane from DKR as a surrogate for Trump statements.

I don't know if they didn't notice that he was the villain, or that the rebellion in that movie (that scene where he stands on a car and yells to a crowd is the one they use) was one run by criminals and escapees from an asylum that would actually be forcing Trump to walk across a frozen river instead of choosing him as their leader.

Like, if they wanted to portray Trump as someone who's personally very successful at business and then uses that success to fight corruption and crime to save the ordinary person, those movies have that guy. It's motherfucking BATMAN. If Trump is Bane, who would be Batman in this analogy you dipshits? THINK.
posted by neonrev at 7:35 PM on August 3, 2016 [12 favorites]


can we stop this shank derail please
posted by zutalors! at 7:35 PM on August 3, 2016 [15 favorites]


Cortex is probably sticking pins into a effigy of matthowie right about now and going "why have thou foresaken me!"

This being Metafilter, it is absolutely vital that I correct your quotation to "why hast thou forsaken me?"
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:35 PM on August 3, 2016 [38 favorites]


I will bet you many dollars that what he actually saw was some stock footage of a cargo plane being unloaded that was running behind whatever cable news he had on today.

What he's describing sounds exactly like the footage that accompanied the Today show's Iran report this morning
posted by prize bull octorok at 7:37 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


I've started to think that nerdy derails in threads about Trump are our way of whistling past the graveyard and distracting ourselves.

Similarly jokes about tiny hands. They are delightful and make me stop thinking of the nonzero chance of this person becoming president. At least for a few seconds.

But really, I'm tired, you guys. I'm sick at heart that we've even come this close, even if we defeat him, how did we ever come to this? It's embarrassing, horrifying, enraging, dispiriting.

I guess many countries have this kind of brush with facism (or worse) happen at some point, but it's kind of fucking me up.
posted by emjaybee at 7:38 PM on August 3, 2016 [41 favorites]


As I watched Rachel Maddow devote the vast majority of her show to David Duke rather than the stunning establishment conservative victories over Tea Party incumbents in Kansas I had a sudden realization: in November I will have no access to cable news for election watching. My parents turn off their cable service for 6+ months of the year while they're in FL, I have no television service, and I know no one who will be interested enough in the election whose couch I can borrow on that fateful day. All of my plans for binging on junk food while sipping at giant glasses of wine while watching Wolf Blitzer step all over his own beard on CNN just disappeared in a poof of smoke. Sad!

Anyway, as I watched this evening's news coverage I was struck by how many analysts announced that Republicans were breathing sighs of relief today because Trump stayed on message for 11 whole minutes in FL. The other 40 minutes were spent re-litigating Megyn, disabled reporter controversies, n'thing down on Muslims celebrating in the streets after 9/11, etc. etc. etc. Seriously, if you're thrilled that your nominee can stay on message for 11 whole minutes, perhaps your bar for success is artificially low.
posted by xyzzy at 7:38 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


People use Bane (or the Joker) as a stand-in for Trump because they are perceived as badasses and are more entertaining than straight old Batman. The implications of this are not important to them.

That said, I think the number of people who want a deranged badass as their president is pretty small.
posted by argybarg at 7:38 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Cues up Rockefeller Shank.

can we stop this shank derail please

/record scratch.
posted by Artw at 7:38 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


I thought people were doing the CIA meme with Trump. Are they doing Trump as Bane now?

"Nobody cared who I was before I ran for president"
"If I took off that Toupee would you die?"
"It would be very painful... for you"
posted by vuron at 7:40 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


It's worse than that, Bane's fake populist uprising was just to run out the clock until everyone got nuked.
posted by ckape at 7:41 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


To put the election in terms of "Are You Being Served?" Trump is young Mr. Grace. Hillary is Mr. Rumbold. Grace Brothers is America. Captain Peacock is Bill Clinton.

I really must know who Mrs. Slocombe's Pussy is.
posted by delfin at 7:41 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


Looks like the Republican Party is in for a long, long war:

Laura Ingraham:

Most impt to remember: economic nationalism, conservative populism is the future of the GOP, no matter what the Bushes &the donors want
posted by My Dad at 7:45 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


I have such a hard time connecting the words "badass" and "Donald Trump". It's actually literally baffling me. I'm deeply hoping he does actually assault someone because it will absolutely be the weakest, most pathetic attempt ever, with flailing and an askew toupee, and probably end up with him on his ass with cameras on him every second, the other person not having needed to do anything. I expect a squeal, I'd love to see some embarrassment tears.

It's worse than that, Bane's fake populist uprising was just to run out the clock until everyone got nuked.

Oh god I forgot, that's right!
posted by neonrev at 7:46 PM on August 3, 2016 [4 favorites]


economic nationalism, conservative populism is the future of the GOP

Welp. At least she's honest about how much she loves fascism?
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:46 PM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


> There's a weird pop culture references I see sometimes from Trump people on facebook, using Bane from DKR as a surrogate for Trump statements.

I imagine these are the same people who parroted "evil will always triumph because good is dumb" in their 2003 forum signatures and thought Sephiroth was the baddest ass ever.
posted by gilrain at 7:46 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]




Koch has put their network’s budget at roughly $750m through the end of 2016. A significant portion was supposed to help elect a Republican to the White House but this weekend Mark Holden, general counsel and senior vice-president of Koch Industries, said it would instead go to helping GOP Senate candidates in at least five states: Ohio, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Wisconsin and Florida.
That's 750 million dollars divided by five Senate races.


I feel like the Kochs are playing with fire these past few election cycles. Since they're not willing to place bets against Obama or Hillary, they instead stack the House and Senate with Tea Partiers and shills, essentially investing in federal gridlock.

While preventing legislation they don't like, it also fuels the increasingly violent frustrations of society and sacrifices the stability of the nation's economy when congress cannot pass budgets or agree on anything. Do they really want a federal government with 5 supreme court justices left and no budget? Can't imagine it helps their business in the long run when other countries stop lending us money, there's no more infrastructure, and the economy tanks. Or is that when they just leave and start their own country on some remote island?
posted by p3t3 at 7:52 PM on August 3, 2016 [15 favorites]


Okay I gots to keel over and I gots to focus at work tomorrow, see you at the 7 o'clock blues.
posted by vrakatar at 7:53 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


You had me until you implied Sephiroth wasn't the baddest ass ever gilrain.

You can't actually say that when "One Winged Angel" comes on you don't actually hope that Sephiroth kicks the shit out of Cloud.

Certainly if we are going to compare Trump to a FF BBEG he would be Kefka Palazzo, due to his sociopathic hatred of everything and his general maniacal behavior.
posted by vuron at 7:57 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


Hm, yes this does seem about right:

2016
posted by gilrain at 8:00 PM on August 3, 2016


Repeated daily viewings of this: Khaleesi is coming to Westeros.

So if the polls continue to be firm for her and so on, sometime in September or October Clinton should totally start coming out at rallies to the tune of "The Rains of Castamere."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:06 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


EDIT: this is a parody account, did not realize

Don't worry. It's not just you.
posted by schmod at 8:08 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


I learned everything I need to know about shanking from P.G.Wodehouse golfing stories.

Tonight is the first night in a long while I can read my book because I have read all the comments and I am caught up with the thread.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:09 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


No Democrat or Republican gets to make wedding massacre jokes.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 8:11 PM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


Mark Holden, general counsel and senior vice-president of Koch Industries, said it would instead go to helping GOP Senate candidates in at least five states: Ohio, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Wisconsin and Florida.

I know we all enjoy a good political freakout, so how come I'm not hearing that much about control of the Senate? PEC right now has D 49, R 51. Is it too early in the race to get a clear picture? Is there a lack of consistent polling? We're not going to get any Supreme Court justices with at least a 50/50 split. And a suspension of the filibuster.
posted by PlusDistance at 8:16 PM on August 3, 2016 [9 favorites]


Our Senate race here in PA is a confirmed asshole Republican vs. a complete snoozer of a Democrat. I've donated to her campaign but she's unfortunately nothing much to get excited about. Pat Toomey is just such an unmitigated doucherocket, but the state Dems put their weight (imo) behind the wrong candidate in the primaries. No one is going to get fired up over Katie McGinty.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:22 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


When after all
It was Ted Cruz' dad


Legitimate lol

can we stop this shank derail please

there were no rails to begin with
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:26 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Comment on a Guardian story about prisoners rescuing deaf dogs from the Sand fire in California: "After 48 hours of reporting on the implosion of the Trump campaign, you would think the Guardian would be tired of writing heart-warming and uplifting stories. But nooo..."
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:27 PM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


I really wish people would stop talking about Supreme Court Justices right now - not you guys, but broadly, in the world. It's not that it's not important, it is, but every time it's talked about, Republicans hear that siren call too, and it fools people into acting like this is a normal Right vs Left election rather than a "the world may be on fire" election.
posted by corb at 8:27 PM on August 3, 2016 [34 favorites]


This story about Trump bringing these alleged Gold Star families on stage and talking about how much they love him reminds me of all the other times he claims that he loves someone or someone loves him. Think about the thousands of times he's claimed to love China, or the infamous Taco Bowl Tweet where he said "I love Hispanics!" None of these statements are ever directed at the people he is talking about, but at the people he is talking to. And since the two groups of people are almost completely mutually exclusive, his audience has no evidence to judge these statements but the man's word itself. It's a sham affection, a cheap facsimile of love to dazzle unsophisticated buyers and distract them from the shabby reality. And now I'm reminded of another story, the one about how Trump's buildings have lots of expensive, flashy materials that are put together on the cheap and falling apart.

The contrast with Hillary couldn't be greater. I remember reading a Reddit comment way back in the primaries explaining why Bernie wasn't doing well with black voters. It boiled down to saying that politicians have been "promising the moon" to black voters and flaking out for decades, but Hillary has actually stuck with black communities and organizations throughout her career. That's a genuine investment of time and effort, and it paid off. Has Trump ever spent (or, one might say, sacrificed) that kind of time and effort for anyone in his life? Has he actually done anything to help his supporters? Because it seems the white resentment vote can be bought with little more than hot air. And that in turn makes me think about those poor whites in the article posted earlier, who feel that "no one cares about" them.

A lot of people, like the alt-right crowd, are only backing Trump because they're sick of being polite to people different from them. They can fuck themselves. But I hope to God that those poor whites find the honest advocates they need, who will really work for them and fight for their interests. I hope it's not too late.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 8:33 PM on August 3, 2016 [26 favorites]


It's too early for credible Senate predictions because the main race, the one that will get people out to the polls in and of itself, is a Mongolian clusterfuck.

Also let's get real here -- 50/50 with a Dem President or 51D/49R would be nominally in the Democrats' favor but far from stable. One or two defections would be enough to shut down a lot of things, and certain Dems (cough MANCHIN cough) would be pressured to swing rightward on a lot of issues For The Good Of The Country[tm], if not pull an Arlen Specter and switch caucuses altogether.
posted by delfin at 8:37 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Things that help poor black people also help poor white people. If Clinton is helping one group she is also helping the other.
posted by emjaybee at 8:37 PM on August 3, 2016 [34 favorites]


I really wish people would stop talking about Supreme Court Justices right now - not you guys, but broadly, in the world. It's not that it's not important, it is, but every time it's talked about, Republicans hear that siren call too, and it fools people into acting like this is a normal Right vs Left election rather than a "the world may be on fire" election.

Agreed.

When I was writing up this post, I tried to give a semblance of balance by documenting both sides, but I couldn't really find anything about what Hillary Clinton has been doing over the last few days. It's been suprisingly quiet on the Democratic front.

I think that she's trying -- quietly, unassumingly -- to build what in Europe is called a national unity government, the sort of thing this country hasn't seen since the Civil War (or, arguably, WWII). A coalition of the sane and anti-racist left, right and center.

First off, this genuinely needs to happen if this country is going to move forward.

Secondly: I hope that leftist who continue to remain worried or opposed to Hillary Clinton's candidacy consider the benefit to liberals and progressives. Of course, we would get left-of-center judicial nominees and even if we don't win back Congress, 4 or 8 more years of sane minds running the executive functions of the federal government.

At this point I think most honest conservatives will grant that this is at least a fair kind of penance. The right-wing party brought this on conservatism, and liberals do get a benefit from that. Sorrynotsorry.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:47 PM on August 3, 2016 [25 favorites]


So many comments. Anyway, instead of making a comment about Trump, I want to remind you all if you care about the outcome, give money, give time. To Clinton's campaign and down ticket races. Trump and the Republican establishment support for him and his ways has already damaged how the country operates. Maybe it won't make it better for that little kid being villainized by their classmates for being one of way too many forms of different, but maybe getting some of the democratic platform implemented will help.
posted by R343L at 8:48 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


mmoncur: "Also, in correcting her "It's all Time Traveling Obama's fault" statement, his spokesperson said:

“But Donald Trump wasn’t there,” Pierson said. “That is the only point. That’s the only point. Donald Trump is being blamed for something he had nothing to do with, and he did not attack this family.”
"

Your daily reminder that Trump spokeswoman Katrina Pierson still has a tweet posted complaining about the lack of "pure breeds" in the 2012 presidential debates.
posted by Rhaomi at 9:05 PM on August 3, 2016 [68 favorites]


When I was writing up this post, I tried to give a semblance of balance by documenting both sides, but I couldn't really find anything about what Hillary Clinton has been doing over the last few days.

I think it's that time tested strategy, and I'm paraphrasing: when your opponent is shooting himself in the foot, don't interrupt.
posted by msalt at 9:11 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


God help me, I thought Rhaomi was paraphrasing.
posted by corb at 9:11 PM on August 3, 2016 [29 favorites]


Wow. That tweet makes me wish I still had an active twitter acct, just so I could point it out to more people.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:12 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yeah, for posterity (though it's been known for months, so she's clearly not ashamed enough to nix it), her tweet reads:
Perfect Obama's dad born in Africa, Mitt Romney's dad born in Mexico. Any pure breeds left? #CNNDebate
(Also, it was posted in January 2012 during the early primary debates, not the presidential one.)

neonrev: "I have such a hard time connecting the words "badass" and "Donald Trump". It's actually literally baffling me."

Well, he is both bad and an ass.
posted by Rhaomi at 9:15 PM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


Your daily reminder that Trump spokeswoman Katrina Pierson still has a tweet posted complaining about the lack of "pure breeds" in the 2012 presidential debates.

Holy shit that's the grossest thing I've seen in a long time. My visceral reaction outdoes even Trump's waffling on the KKK. You know how Trump is banning certain periodicals and networks from his rallys, etc.? Ban this woman from the cable news channels. Pure breeds. I'm out of outrage. That depleted it.

I think it's that time tested strategy, and I'm paraphrasing: when your opponent is shooting himself in the foot, don't interrupt.

Still though, there's something about the way Trump dominates the news cycle that gives him a certain... tempo against his opponents. It's definitely how he won in the primary. She'll need to make news of some sort soon or people will only know her as the LOCK HER UP candidate. Problem is there's nothing about being a good, disciplined candidate with a positive message that can compete with the lunatic when it comes to eyeballs on the news. If we shut the news channels off for 96 days, Trump would wither into the dried, brown crust that is his heart.
posted by dis_integration at 9:17 PM on August 3, 2016


I was in the midst of writing some old man conventional wisdom thing about how back in the day the line was that Republicans always get the executive branch because they're better managers while the legislative branch always goes to the Democrats because they're closer to the purse strings. And how this has been flipped in this new Bizzaro era.

But then I read Rhaomi's link on preview and, well, fuck. Game over, man. This is his spokesperson. How is this not check and mate?
posted by Fezboy! at 9:18 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Katrina Pierson also said a couple of times in her 'correction' that 'tens of thousands' of soldiers died in Iraq which is a pretty big rounding error from the ~4500 deaths that actually occurred. I almost gave her the benefit of the doubt that she was talking about all deaths, including Iraquis but the other numbers she gave (~1M wounded, $6T cost) are US specific (although the $6T number included the next 40 years of veterans benefits which is a little bit shady math, IMO).
posted by macfly at 9:20 PM on August 3, 2016


Oh, there's much more where that came from:

Trump Spokeswoman’s Twitter History Is a Goldmine of Embarrassment

Lowlights include 2012 election as "Mormon or Jihadi", a knock about "Jew stole his girlfriend," and Obama as "head Negro." That these fun facts are not on the chyron of her every media appearance is nauseating.
posted by Rhaomi at 9:24 PM on August 3, 2016 [37 favorites]


It is very telling that the Trump campaign has never, even once, denounced the white supremacists and white nationalists and neo-nazi's that support him.

such a simple thing. Such an obvious thing.

"We do not welcome those ideologies into our vision of America."

How hard is that to say?

But they haven't. And they won't.
posted by yesster at 9:26 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


engineer's disease or more precisely the doctor/dentist version of that disease

hey... wait... can MBAs get it too?
posted by Rat Spatula at 9:28 PM on August 3, 2016 [2 favorites]


Your daily reminder that Trump spokeswoman Katrina Pierson still has a tweet posted complaining about the lack of "pure breeds" in the 2012 presidential debates.

What's truly fucking dumb is that Romney isn't a half-breed. His bloodline is as white and pure as virgin snow. His grandparents fled the United States to Mexico for being polygamous mormons.

So not only is she a racist twit she's also completely fucking clueless and ignorant about the facts of the situation. Which describes the Trump campaign absolutely fucking perfectly.
posted by Talez at 9:29 PM on August 3, 2016 [24 favorites]


how come I'm not hearing that much about control of the Senate? PEC right now has D 49, R 51

Some of the primaries are not even finished yet, and there isn't a lot of active polling.

It's pretty important that the Democrats get even a slim Senate majority because that gives them a majority on all of the committees. In particular it means that any Clinton Supreme Court nominee is guaranteed at least a public hearing and a Judiciary Committee approval. That puts a lot more political pressure on the Republicans in the event of a filibuster attempt.
posted by JackFlash at 9:31 PM on August 3, 2016 [11 favorites]


It's so surreal to see these sorts of stories in an American presidential campaign. And some of the pathetic quotes in the stories from formerly powerful people are laugh-out-loud hilarious. Highly entertaining!

Donald Trump Pushes Republican Party to Its Breaking Point


GOP reaches ‘new level of panic’ over Trump’s candidacy

'A sense of panic is rising' among Republicans over Trump, including talk of what to do if he quits

It's just so... odd. Is this really happening?
posted by My Dad at 9:33 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


More important than anything else:

Even if Trump were to pick up his fundraising pace, he faces stiff organizational challenges, particularly if he loses support from the RNC.

In “these critical battleground states, the states that absolutely Trump must win, they’re undermanned and outgunned in every way,” Wilson said, and he pointed to one of the most crucial battlegrounds, his home state of Florida.

Wilson said Clinton has more staff exclusively targeting Latino voters in Orlando alone than Trump has in the entire state.

“Even if they had $1 billion that walked in the door tomorrow,” he said, “these things can’t just happen.”

posted by My Dad at 9:38 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


“Even if they had $1 billion that walked in the door tomorrow,” he said, “these things can’t just happen.”

Trump replied to these concerns with the following: "Nonsense! I've used 9 women to have a baby in a month before! I know all about man months! We have the best man months! Toward the end of the election we take some people, throw some money at them and bang, I'm up 10 points over Crooked Hillary!" [satire]
posted by Talez at 9:43 PM on August 3, 2016 [8 favorites]




that puts a lot more political pressure on the Republicans in the event of a filibuster attempt

There's not going to be any more fucking filibusters.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 9:57 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


“Even if they had $1 billion that walked in the door tomorrow,” he said, “these things can’t just happen.”

Clinton is running a Deeply Normal Campaign, which is why August for her and Kaine is going to be devoted to the organising events discussed upthread to show volunteers that they're valued for the hard slog ahead, particularly in battleground states, and to get as many names on sign-up sheets as soon as possible.

Even if this has become a test of whether one can win a presidential campaign without an actual campaign, local GOP stalwarts in mid-sized cities -- the people who show up and work on every campaign -- must be looking at their phones in between working on their state and local races and wondering why the call hasn't come from Trump HQ. That surely has to be demoralising, but it's also going to encourage Trump supporters who haven't been integrated into the campaign to act as freelancers, which isn't going to be great for message discipline.
posted by holgate at 9:59 PM on August 3, 2016 [3 favorites]


Holy fucking shit, I just saw Erick Eriksen: Donald Trump Is Going To Hell, And If You Defend This, So Are You.
These are allies. They are not vassal states. These are friends. Our promises do not require shakedowns. We are not the global bully demanding lunch money for protection. We are the shining city on the hill.

You people reflect the evil character of your god. You should be ashamed, but you have no shame left. You all deserve to be defeated and annihilated. You disgust me in cheering him on. He disgusts me.
posted by corb at 10:00 PM on August 3, 2016 [97 favorites]


This Sean Hannity open thread is also pretty funny. On one hand there are people mocking Hannity for his decision to back and promote Trump's candidacy. On the other hand there are lunatic Trump supporters who actually think Trump is campaigning as a "socialist", and that the solution to his problems is to double-down on conservatism. Or something. I can't take three more months of this incredible weirdness. Between this and the Brexit, it's like having the playoffs of every major sport happening simultaneously for every minute over every day. Sensory overload!
posted by My Dad at 10:01 PM on August 3, 2016 [5 favorites]


I'm just going to say, entirely and wholly sincerely, with no subtext of any kind: I hope that some day Katrina Pierson is remorseful for her behavior. Until that day comes, I hope that she has no position of power or influence over any human beings whatsoever.
posted by yesster at 10:03 PM on August 3, 2016 [22 favorites]


The thing I didn't know was news has been overtaken by events.

Georgia Republican says he might withhold Electoral College vote from Donald Trump
Updates: Georgia GOP elector who balked on Donald Trump resigns
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:08 PM on August 3, 2016 [1 favorite]


GOP Strategist to Anderson Cooper: Trump's "message" is being a loud-mouth dick
posted by murphy slaw at 10:14 PM on August 3, 2016 [15 favorites]


GOP Strategist to Anderson Cooper: Trump's "message" is being a loud-mouth dick
posted by murphy slaw at 10:14 PM


That was awesome. Thank you. That ranks right up there with Farheed Zakaria saying "bullshit artist."

Hah. "Loud mouthed dick."

Thank you.
posted by yesster at 10:26 PM on August 3, 2016 [7 favorites]


Sarah Kendzior is a good follow on Twitter right now; her latest piece in Foreign Policy is a summary of the mainstreaming of extremism over the course of the Trump campaign - nothing new if you've been watching the shitshow, but Kendzior follows it up with thoughts like this:

Whoever follows Trump will learn from his mistakes and try to retain his base. Successor will be slicker, more controlled. Watch for that.

That tweet is one of the most chilling things I've read this year.
posted by mediareport at 10:29 PM on August 3, 2016 [31 favorites]


nobody really seems to know how tall HRC is

Ten feet tall if she's an inch, with arms like power shovels. Got a glint in her eye: cold, like the fires o' hell.
posted by um at 10:39 PM on August 3, 2016 [45 favorites]


Whoever follows Trump will learn from his mistakes and try to retain his base. Successor will be slicker, more controlled. Watch for that.

That tweet is one of the most chilling things I've read this year.


Yeah, that's what I've thought for a while. The danger isn't Trump. It's the like-Trump-but-sane that will come after
posted by Mitrovarr at 10:49 PM on August 3, 2016 [22 favorites]


I heard she's six foot thirty and rides a horse made of diamond.
posted by Justinian at 10:49 PM on August 3, 2016 [29 favorites]


Twelve foot two, with eyes that glow with the wisdom of the Amazons. And she can bench press a Buick.
posted by mochapickle at 10:59 PM on August 3, 2016 [16 favorites]


> That tweet is one of the most chilling things I've read this year.

THIS

This is why I'm for Hillary to have a landslide. For the RNC to be gutted and the earth where they stood salted as a reminder for future generations.
posted by mrzarquon at 11:07 PM on August 3, 2016 [57 favorites]


gaslighting

the orange wallpaper
posted by salix at 11:19 PM on August 3, 2016 [24 favorites]


Whoever follows Trump will learn from his mistakes and try to retain his base. Successor will be slicker, more controlled. Watch for that.

He goes by the name Ted Cruz.
posted by JackFlash at 11:36 PM on August 3, 2016 [6 favorites]


Your daily reminder that Trump spokeswoman Katrina Pierson still has a tweet posted complaining about the lack of "pure breeds" in the 2012 presidential debates.


I just, the use of the term "pure breeds" by a biracial woman is completely astounding to me. This is a woman who grew up in poverty with a teenaged mother that has a shoplifting record and also has collected unemployment while working on Ted Cruz's campaign in 2013. She bitches about her mother's "redistribution of wealth society" and is divorced and a single mother. NONE of those things alone or seperately make her a bad person, but all those things while tweeting hateful shit like this seems like she has zero self awareness or empathy.

Pssst, hey Katrina - that group of skinheads with the nazi flag that we had to walk through last week to get to the Hilary for America office will NEVER think you're one of them. No matter what you tweet or say on tv. Look up the one drop rule.
posted by hollygoheavy at 11:52 PM on August 3, 2016 [22 favorites]


I hope that some day Katrina Pierson is remorseful for her behavior.

yes same except i hope it happens as she is being gruesomely devoured by a shark
posted by poffin boffin at 12:02 AM on August 4, 2016 [14 favorites]


ironically the shark is not a great white
posted by poffin boffin at 12:02 AM on August 4, 2016 [80 favorites]


I want to clarify that Katrina Pierson was arrested for shoplifting in 1997, not her mother.
posted by hollygoheavy at 12:06 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


nobody really seems to know how tall HRC is

Thirty feet tall, with skin of gleaming bronze, calligraphed exquisitely from head to toe with the texts that form the foundations of all human knowledge; eyes like slices of opal behind which, twin five-megawatt lasers glow. Hands strong enough to shred a Humvee, but skilled and delicate enough to help a fruit bat through a breach birth.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 12:08 AM on August 4, 2016 [61 favorites]


This is why I'm for Hillary to have a landslide. For the RNC to be gutted and the earth where they stood salted as a reminder for future generations.

Just so we're clear, though... at this point we actually want (as in, it's in the best interest of humankind) for the Republican Party to be relatively weak, but still exist and be the obvious well-tread route to power for any right-wing rising leader, right? So that we'll already have the gauntlet that leader will need to run reconnoitered ahead of time. And have meurtrières in place to pour boiling oil and/or chamber pots on them.

In the post-Citizens-United era it seems like letting the GOP crumble into a power vacuum into which "Whoever follows Trump" could introduce a new party with all the same resources, but with no history to be held accountable to and a squeaky-clean brand crafted from scratch, would be the worse outcome.

Like obviously they're of no use whatsoever for actively stopping fascists on their own, and don't have the steel to dissolve themselves out of a sense of shame, but at least as cannon fodder / a speed bump / a tar pit they could be crucial in delaying and entangling an actual vital fascist demagogue who has developed momentum long enough to save civilization, and thus are worth keeping around in their self-gelded state. The devil you know, to some degree.
posted by XMLicious at 12:09 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


This is why I'm for Hillary to have a landslide. For the RNC to be gutted and the earth where they stood salted as a reminder for future generations.

I'm getting the feeling this is the DNC gameplan. I don't have it fully formed, but it feels like the dems smell blood in the water and want to sink high-level mainstream GOP leaders along with Trump. Just him isn't enough. The Obama comments about GOP leaders denouncing Trump are core to this. The (high level) safe move would be to quietly encourage them to either drop Trump softly or imply that it's cool to suggest that people not vote for him, allowing them to save some kind of face, but instead he tied them to Trump's anchor and stepped back laughing. If they do denounce Trump then they just took orders from the pres (scandalized face) and if they don't they tie themselves to him even more. The likely 2020 field now all stinks of Trump, and an embarrassing loss only makes that worse later.

I'm actually excited for this election. I honestly don't see a clear path to a Trump victory, and I can only see it getting worse from here. It's a matter of by how much we beat him, and how we deal with the aftermath of his loss now. We have a clear path, and we need to double down and fuck the idea of white supremacy and bigotry as hard as possible this time around. Overton windows shift, yeah, but a striking win here shoves that window back our way so much.
A fucking clear dem mandate and anything like a shift in the legislature sets us up for actually governing for a bit, which gives us a better case come 2020, which could give us a clear majority. The face of the dog-whistle racist pile of shit the GOP has descended into has been ripped off and their dedicated base revealed as the horrifying people they are. America has seen it in a general election for the first time in a long time, and it does not like what it sees.

I know a lot of you are scared of Trump as president, and so am I. It's apocalyptic. It's actually worse than anything Tom Clancy ever thought of.
I don't think he has much of a shot though, the GOP base is largely based around liking the status quo, and god-almighty does he not promise that. I'm watching freakouts amoung the non-politically inclined at how he's acting, they weren't paying attention before. The massive base of the GOP that is white parents of any economic stripe do not want nuclear war, they don't really want mass deportations, just the idea of them maybe, and they don't want someone who has never held office and acts so wildly. His shitty base is just so loud, and they are so quiet. They are scared totally shitless by him. It's been a week. We're more often wonks and political junkies here than in most communities, the comfortable rest of the country is just now noticing him. Strange, I know, but the nominee process is nothing like the general. It starts mattering more and more how they act as we lead up to it, and does anyone think he'll start acting more balanced and reasonable the closer the election gets? We've seen nothing yet.

Try taking that fear and turning it into hope. A clear win here changes things. The GOP would be fractured, maybe beyond repair. A clear refutation of that kind of bigotry. The youth and poc out and politically active in historic numbers. A real shift. He's on his back heel and reacting like a man losing a fight. Lets keep it going. Let's not allow him to scare us or make us sad, let's take his bullshit and feed it right back to him and demonstrate that that shit does not fly here, not like that at least. Let's keep the pressure on and make sure every low info voter knows exactly where he stands. Confidence in a victory only looks like complacency when you don't hate the opponent, and we do, and we can move others with our confidence.

A well played hand here spells death for the organized right, it means a weakened right this cycle and their big players crippled come 2020. I could mean a major shift in where we are headed, faster than we thought. My family is considering Clinton. Some still think Obama was the anti-christ and that Clinton might nuke someone because PMS. These are not mutually exclusive groups.

It's depressing as all hell that he still has such support, but we always knew that was a thing. Lets make them look silly. Lets discredit all of that bullshit. Let's fuck up his pride, and make him a symbol.

I wasn't a fan of Clinton, but I don't give a damn. Ending illegal warfare and gutting wall street wasn't going to happen anyway, but we can sure as shit make sure Trump loses and bad. That's the gameplan now. Nothing shifts us further left than Clinton winning right now, and big. Let's fucking do it. If the GOP comes back it's fragmented at best. The big tent just got a bunch of tears in it and we can rip them wide fucking open.

PS: Related. 'Pragmatists' don't really want far-leftists shutting up about how Clinton is too conservative for us, at least not to conservatives. I have found nothing more effective to moderate repubs than just being me, a hard-socialist leftist, telling them that Clinton is far too conservative for my tastes. I'm the political idea that they fear her to be, and my dislike but preference seems to comfort them. The enemy of my enemy who also hate my supposed but disliked leader is my friend in this case I guess. Real dems aren't going to leave her in real numbers, but boy can we flake off some conservatives this time around. I've done 3 personally in this manner.
posted by neonrev at 12:14 AM on August 4, 2016 [85 favorites]


it feels like the dems smell blood in the water and want to sink high-level mainstream GOP leaders along with Trump. Just him isn't enough. The Obama comments about GOP leaders denouncing Trump are core to this.

Unless the DNC has some magic formula for dealing with gerrymandering, to take back the House and Senate, all the blood in the water probably won't amount to much outside of the symbolism of the presidency. It is the leaders in the progressive movement (like, yes, Sanders) who seem to have been slowly figuring how to make down-ballot campaigns successful, to get the public interested in countering Republicans at a local level.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 12:31 AM on August 4, 2016 [8 favorites]


The formula is that 2020 is the next census, and it's a presidential election. We will turn out, and hopefully will take some state houses in swing states.
posted by persona au gratin at 1:06 AM on August 4, 2016 [6 favorites]


Whoever follows Trump will learn from his mistakes and try to retain his base. Successor will be slicker, more controlled. Watch for that.


You know, I don't buy this. The GOP has traded in slick, coded media friendly intolerance and bigotry for years. What's getting people excited is the freedom to get rid of all that, to say what they REALLY MEAN, the giddy thrill of being as blunt and gross as they can imagine, the ethos of a soccer rigor mixed with race hate.

I don't see this getting slicker. Slick didn't work. I see this getting grosser. And that's going to retain his base.

(Slick maybe in a guy in a suit whi talks about "Race realism" but doesn't get into an argument with a baby, yes, maybe)
posted by The Whelk at 1:12 AM on August 4, 2016 [16 favorites]


Some still think Obama was the anti-christ and that Clinton might nuke someone because PMS. These are not mutually exclusive groups.

Do I need to point out that at 68 Clinton probably hasn't menstruated in over 20 years? I know that isn't something most people are comfortable talking about but I've seen this come up before. Let's be honest, the whole "PMS" argument is gross and misleading but if your family is concerned about mood swings, you can reassure them on that point. At this point I think we need to be more concerned about Trump's mood swings.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:14 AM on August 4, 2016 [41 favorites]


Do I need to point out that at 68 Clinton probably hasn't menstruated in over 20 years?

To the republican base, given their "sex education" curriculum and general level of interest in women as humans?

Yes?
posted by maxwelton at 1:54 AM on August 4, 2016 [30 favorites]


nobody really seems to know how tall HRC is

Twelve stories high, and made of radiation.
posted by biogeo at 3:12 AM on August 4, 2016 [7 favorites]


HRC: And that one's...Charizard?

aide: [slams flashcard on table] IT'S MAGMAR DO YOU EVEN WANT TO WIN THIS RACE


HRC GB OG

posted by PenDevil at 3:19 AM on August 4, 2016 [20 favorites]


Do I need to point out that at 68 Clinton probably hasn't menstruated in over 20 years? I know that isn't something most people are comfortable talking about but I've seen this come up before. Let's be honest, the whole "PMS" argument is gross and misleading but if your family is concerned about mood swings, you can reassure them on that point.

Yewterday I briefly got into a Facebook argument with a frothing-mouthed guy who was slagging the Khans; he claimed that Khan was "exploiting his dead son" because he was appearing on talk shows to slag Trump. He also claimed that Khazir Khan was a lawyer who specialized in a specific type of visa suited to cater to "rich Middle East bastards", and that his law firm had assisted Saudis who had in turn made contributions to Clinton's campaign - and that therefore Khazir Khan's statements at the convention were mere political pandering and meant nothing.

For people who have already made up their minds to be closed-minded, facts won't mean anything.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:47 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


I thought this was well-said: Republican Party Burns Down One Last Institution: Itself

Francis Wilkinson in Bloomberg charges that the Republican Party's ongoing war on American institutions has included, among other things, the news media, academia, public schools, the courts, Hollywood, the US Congress, the US Presidency, the IRS, and voting itself, but that "Before Trump, two institutions were off limits to Republican attacks. The military was one. Ever since Republican Senator Joseph McCarthy, Trump's forebear in scattershot, seat-of-the-pants demagogy, had tried and failed to damage the U.S. Army in the 1950s, Republicans could be counted on to rally around the troops and their leaders," and that while the military is likely to survive the assault, "the final institution on the Republican hit list, the one that had been immune to attack for decades, may not.

"The Republican Party is an institution, too -- an old and once respected one. Having devoted much of the past half century to undermining other American institutions in pursuit of its own power, the party has at last turned on itself. The ethos of destruction preceded Trump. But he is a natural conclusion of it."
posted by taz at 4:05 AM on August 4, 2016 [42 favorites]


Just as a reminder: for all the back pedaling and the shift in tone from the Trump supporters you know, this isn't giving up. They've only just been pushed into a place where being vocal taints them. They will still pull the lever, check the box and press the button for Trump. Just because they won't speak about the latest gaffe on Facebook doesn't mean they are beaten. So keep pushing forward. Keep moving forward. Keep drawing people to reason and compassion. This isn't the time to let off the gas, this is the time to be stronger together.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 4:09 AM on August 4, 2016 [16 favorites]


Politico reports that Melania Trump may have been working in the US illegally. She was in the USA earlier than originally claimed and her travel is inconsistent with an H-1B visa which would have allowed her to work; travel patterns and her own statements suggest either a B-1 or B-2 Tourist Visa. That's visa fraud, and would invalidate her citizenship application.

Donald Trump: I married an illegal immigrant!
posted by Justinian at 4:17 AM on August 4, 2016 [43 favorites]


But seriously, Trump isn't stupid enough to run for President when his wife committed visa fraud, is he? Don't answer that.
posted by Justinian at 4:17 AM on August 4, 2016 [14 favorites]


State poll today...
Michigan:
Clinton 41%
Trump 32%
.
New Hampshire
Clinton 47%
Trump 32%
.
Pennsylvania:
Clinton 49%
Trump 38%


And he really means today, as in these three polls have come out in the last seven hours.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:21 AM on August 4, 2016 [16 favorites]


That won't stick, I don't think. Hardworking spokesmodels like Melina Trump aren't "illegal immigrants;" we know who the illegal immigrants are. That's just more evidence that the media and the government are persecuting Donald Trump.

Or in other words, for the most part I think he's fairly immune to hypocrisy dirt. Poor, that might work. If his tax returns came out and he's actually broke. Crazy seems to be working okay.
posted by maggiepolitt at 4:25 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


Portland Maine is the unlucky recipient of a Trump visit today. In addition to a protest rally, Mainers have been reserving seats inside the Trump venue that they intend to leave empty.
posted by donnagirl at 4:37 AM on August 4, 2016 [19 favorites]


Given that Trump overbooks small venues in order to complainbrag about all of his supporters who can't get in, it is not likely that those seats will remain empty.
posted by yesster at 4:56 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


Yeah, he's been here before. We know what it looks like. It's just something anyone can do and provides a little levity.
posted by donnagirl at 4:59 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm getting the feeling this is the DNC gameplan.

I wish I felt like the DNC actually had a gameplan
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:11 AM on August 4, 2016 [3 favorites]


Maine?

Really just because it's close enough to get back to your own bed does not make Maine a battle ground state.
posted by vuron at 5:13 AM on August 4, 2016 [7 favorites]


Campaigning in Maine is deeply strange. Even if you do manage to flip it, its four electoral votes aren't really the place to put your resources. Is there some kind of real world, non-Trump logic I'm missing?
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:20 AM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


Whoever follows Trump will learn from his mistakes and try to retain his base.

While I agree they'll try, Trump is fairly sui generis given that most of his primary attractions to voters - outsider, rich enough to self-fund to least initially, TV famous, willing to say and offend anyone - are not easily reproducible. Pretty much anyone following him is going to be beholden to the party and/or donors, not as well-known, unable to generate the massive free media, and be less willing to say overtly the awful things the revanchist base has loved.

And that base is shrinking each year. The last time a Republican won the presidency, whites were 79% of the electorate. This year it's 69%. That number will continue to drop. I kind of think of this as the Battle of the Bulge of white, racist, bigoted, toxic masculinity America; if they don't win this, it's over. Beyond the demographic change, the Supreme Court justices HRC will select will give a liberal majority for the next 20 odd years that will lock in many of the social and political issue this rump end of hate conservatism is fighting against.

Could a proto-fascist take some elements of this movement and combine it with less Latino hate for example and create a winning coalition down the road? Possibly, but it won't be the white grievance/nationalism movement Trump has built.

(And in all this I'm talking about the national race for the presidency. On a state level and in off year elections, Democrats still need to get their shit together and compete, turn out and win.)
posted by chris24 at 5:23 AM on August 4, 2016 [17 favorites]


Is there some kind of real world, non-Trump logic I'm missing?
Well, it's prettty nice there in the summer
posted by thelonius at 5:24 AM on August 4, 2016 [8 favorites]


Assuming there's a strategy in there (I honestly have no idea) I think that Trump has realized he can pretty much be vile in any state in the union and Twitter and Facebook will share it far and wide. How that's going to win him an election is beyond me, but, it's like he thinks that if he can have his 27% angrier than the remaining 73% of the country their votes will be worth more or something.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:25 AM on August 4, 2016 [3 favorites]


I assume that any stops he makes in Maine are to repay Gov. Paul LePage for his support. LePage has an ongoing feud with his state legislature, and while his state's electoral votes aren't going to Trump, boosting GOP turnout could give the Republicans control of the state House of Representatives (and thus total control of the state government, since they already hold the senate).
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:28 AM on August 4, 2016 [7 favorites]


Politico reports that Melania Trump may have been working in the US illegally. She was in the USA earlier than originally claimed and her travel is inconsistent with an H-1B visa which would have allowed her to work; travel patterns and her own statements suggest either a B-1 or B-2 Tourist Visa. That's visa fraud, and would invalidate her citizenship application.

Donald Trump: I married an illegal immigrant!


It's a good catch, but when have rules ever applied to wealthy people in this country?
posted by winna at 5:29 AM on August 4, 2016 [15 favorites]


America is weird. How does Maine elect a guy like LePage... twice?
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 5:32 AM on August 4, 2016 [6 favorites]


Campaigning in Maine is deeply strange. Even if you do manage to flip it, its four electoral votes aren't really the place to put your resources. Is there some kind of real world, non-Trump logic I'm missing?

I'm straining to come up with anything beyond the fact that it LOOKS, at first glimpse, like it might be ripe for flipping: they elected a populist governor who says outrageous things about minorities and wants to repeal the state income tax. Paul LePage is probably Trump-mold Republican with the highest office in the country, and he's been untouchable even when he's doing insane things. Maine is a lot like most New England states, in that the rural part of the state is extremely right-leaning, with cities skewing blue enough to outnumber the (bitterly resentful) rural Republican votes. The difference in Maine is that the cities aren't big enough to create an insurmountable advantage like you see in MA and NY and CT, so it's theoretically possible to channel the white nativist rage there to flip it red.

Given the constant series of missteps by the campaign, it's possible that this is Trump's demented version of Howard Dean's 50-state plan. To which I say: godspeed, sir. Devote as much time to Maine and West Virginia as you think it's going to take.
posted by Mayor West at 5:35 AM on August 4, 2016 [9 favorites]


Re: Orange Julius Caesar

This name becomes even more apt if you play Modest Mouse's "Teeth Like God's Shoeshine" over YouTube footage of a Trump rally.
Here's the man with teeth like God's shoeshine
He sparkles, shimmers, shines
Let's all have another Orange Julius
Thick syrup standing in lines
The malls are the soon-to-be ghost towns
So long, farewell, goodbye
posted by Mayor West at 5:38 AM on August 4, 2016 [6 favorites]


emjaybee: "Things that help poor black people also help poor white people. If Clinton is helping one group she is also helping the other."

Yeah but there's this persistent myth that black people somehow get more benefits than white people do and that whites are getting ripped off by that system.
posted by octothorpe at 5:42 AM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


Manafort to @GMA on why Trump hasn't apologized to Khan family: "Well, I think Mr. Trump has paid the respect." (transcript at link)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:47 AM on August 4, 2016


Something I've been thinking about:

If Republicans come out to vote for Clinton instead of staying home, they are more likely to split their ticket and vote for Republican senators, unless the Dems really step up their efforts at tying down-ticket candidates to Trump.

Clinton + a GOP senate = more or less guaranteed failure to achieve any of the platform goals she laid out. Especially in 2 years when a lot of Dem senate seats are up for reelection.

There hasn't been a lot of polling in senate races (for good reason; many states have yet to pick their candidates), but the polls I've seen have left the GOP with a 1-2 seat majority.
posted by GameDesignerBen at 5:50 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


Just saw a woman with an awesome tote on the Boston Red Line, printed with an image of young Hillary Clinton and Bossladies underneath.
posted by peacheater at 5:50 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


Maine is one of only two states in the country that splits its electoral college votes. (The other one is Nebraska.) So it's theoretically possible that the state will go blue but one electoral college vote will go to Trump. I think that Maine sometimes gets more attention from Republicans than it would seem to merit because that one vote could be important in the (unlikely) event of an electoral college tie. But this isn't shaping up to be the kind of election where that would matter, and I wouldn't give the Trump campaign credit for that level of strategizing anyway.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:58 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


I agree the Melania thing is not going to turn any rabid Trump fans but kudos to Politico for doing some old-fashioned journalism. What I am hoping for is that not only Trump loses but his name is tarnished forever and his family is exposed for the cheating, swindling, elephant-killing con artists they are. The New York Post this morning has an article about how business is down in Trumpland which gave me great pleasure to read.

On a more relevant note, 538 has an interesting analysis: The Political Process Isn’t Rigged — It Has Much Bigger Problems

It boils down to American politics is becoming more polarized and less open to compromise to due 5 things:
1) Geographic Sorting
2) Straight Ticket Voting
3) Primaries are the New General Election
4) Congress Grinds to a Halt
5) Anger at Politicians Grows

I thought point number 4 was the most interesting.
The Cook Political Report currently rates just 37 of 435 House seats as competitive this fall, less than 9 percent of the House. As a result, primary elections have become tantamount to general elections in the vast majority of seats. Because primaries are held on many different dates, they tend to generate less national attention and attract disproportionate shares of hardcore, ideological party activists to the polls.

In 2014, only 14.6 percent of eligible voters participated in congressional primaries — a record low, according to the Center for the Study of the American Electorate. That means a tiny fraction of voters who are the most hardened partisans are essentially electing more than 90 percent of members of Congress. And these low-turnout primaries are often easy prey for ideological interest groups who demand purity.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:59 AM on August 4, 2016 [13 favorites]


the melania immigration issue might have some legs but i really hope that nobody in the clinton campaign or their surrogates touches it with a ten foot pole. it will look petty
posted by murphy slaw at 6:03 AM on August 4, 2016 [17 favorites]


From the Clint Eastwood interview:

"Everybody’s walking on eggshells. We see people accusing people of being racist and all kinds of stuff. When I grew up, those things weren’t called racist."

Perfect example of modern conservative racism. A white man thinks that things weren't called racist because when he was young white people didn't call things racist. This is the era that conservative racists want to go back to. When white people's opinions were all that was even heard. And, oh, us poor powerless white people are walking on eggshells now because we can't be openly racist anymore.

Fuck Clint Eastwood.
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:05 AM on August 4, 2016 [117 favorites]




Yeah but there's this persistent myth that black people somehow get more benefits than white people do and that whites are getting ripped off by that system.

It's way worse than that. Many poor and working class whites (read: people I am related to) don't think minorities should get any of the same benefits they do, because white people paid the taxes, and therefore white people should get the benefits.

I mean, I have had (painful) conversations with (poor white) relatives who *themselves* have been on public assistance for long periods of time, who complained bitterly about all the freeloaders and how we have to do something about lazy folks in the city (implied minority) cheating (that is, using) the system "we" had funded.

It's staggering the horrible things people think. It goes without saying these people are keen on Trump.
posted by aught at 6:11 AM on August 4, 2016 [7 favorites]


Clint Eastwood calls the current generation sensitive? It's worth reminding people that his generation of white people threw their toys out of the pram if a black person shared a drinking fountain with them.
posted by Francis at 6:12 AM on August 4, 2016 [69 favorites]


Everyone has picked out the racism bit of the Clint Eastwood interview, but I thought this was quite telling as well:

“It’s a tough voice to listen to for four years,” he said of Hillary
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 6:15 AM on August 4, 2016 [22 favorites]


“It’s a tough voice to listen to for four years,” he said of Hillary
Fuckin' men with their mommy issues.
posted by Floydd at 6:18 AM on August 4, 2016 [54 favorites]


The formula is that 2020 is the next census, and it's a presidential election. We will turn out, and hopefully will take some state houses in swing states.

The Republican establishment is planning for 2020. Even assuming a Clinton win, it's unprecedented in modern history that a party retains the White House for four consecutive terms, and obstructionism still seems to deliver results. The 2018 Senate election is much more favourable on paper for them, which makes winning the tight 2016 contests vital for Dems if they want any legislative progress.

Gerrymanders unwind somewhat over the course of a decade: people move in and out of districts, older people pass away, younger ones turn 18. 2018's going to feel less gerrymandered than 2016, especially if there's an actual turnout, but the impact is more likely to be on state legislatures than US House seats.
posted by holgate at 6:19 AM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


When Clint Eastwood was a kid you could openly hate on all minority groups (Jews, Asians, Gays, Blacks, etc) if you were a member of the dominant subgroup. It was about making white people feel good about themselves by making everyone else feel shitty about themselves.

It's not a solid foundation to build a civil society around.

What's interesting is that Political Correctness came out of minority groups saying "Nope enough of that shit" and demanding that other people respect their identities. As groups succeeded in demanding respect from the dominant subgroup other groups saw their success and began running with it as well.

This is important because rather than the right of civility being something that white people granted to another group it's something that each individual group has demanded for itself. Want to quit being political correct go ask one of those minority groups that have always been harassed and made to feel subhuman if you are okay bringing back old school racial, ethnic, religious, cultural, etc taunts.

But no the conservatives turn to other white people and expect us to agree and say "yep those negroes sure are uppity!" like in out hearts we really want to go back to the good ole days when you could be a racist dillhole and nobody would try to shame you.

The truth is those days were great for bullies with no sense for making their attacks personal rather than group based. I'd rather not enable any bullies but I definitely don't want to enable the lazy bullies. Saying and doing harmful things is bad and people should feel bad for saying them and people should feel bad for wanting to normalize that behavior again.

Lord of the Flies is a cautionary tale not something we should be trying to cosplay.
posted by vuron at 6:19 AM on August 4, 2016 [25 favorites]


‘Oh Good God’: Megyn Kelly Flips Out Over Trump Relitigating So Many Controversies

Trump wanting to be considered an champion of people with disabilities because he followed ADA building codes is really... rich. (That was an angle I hand't heard him taking before.) The pathetic bastard must stay up all night turning shit ideas over and over in his head until he comes up with some kind of new rationalization to validate the bullshit he's already done and counter his critics. It's clear he can't let a single thing that's said about him go.
posted by aught at 6:21 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


Trump wanting to be considered an champion of people with disabilities because he followed ADA building codes is really... rich.

I should have said "because he *had to follow* ADA building codes" because it's the law, thought no doubt his people worked to cut corners and do the bare minimum at every possible turn.
posted by aught at 6:27 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


I love that the people who throw a fit over 'Happy Holidays' are pissed they can't say ni**er anymore. But we're the sensitive ones.
posted by chris24 at 6:27 AM on August 4, 2016 [39 favorites]


I thought this was well-said: Republican Party Burns Down One Last Institution: Itself

A very succinct, cogently-stated argument. I agree. And it's also where I split from my ideological cousins on the far left (armchair anarchist husband, who sniffily reminded me last night that he "doesn't believe in nation-states" included). I believe in institutions as engines for pro-social progress and I believe in improving those institutions continuously so that they bring the maximum benefit to the populous . Until homo sapiens sapiens evolves into a telekinetic hivemind, I don't think there's any getting away from the fact that if a group of people want something to be done, some institution somewhere is going to have to be the one doing it. You can't burn down the school and then ask why nobody's kids can read.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:30 AM on August 4, 2016 [24 favorites]


The Republican establishment is planning for 2020. Even assuming a Clinton win, it's unprecedented in modern history that a party retains the White House for four consecutive terms, and obstructionism still seems to deliver results. The 2018 Senate election is much more favourable on paper for them, which makes winning the tight 2016 contests vital for Dems if they want any legislative progress.

The Senate will probably not come back into Democratic control without a wholesale implosion of the Republican Party. There's just too many smaller red states and blue voters in California and New York.
posted by Talez at 6:30 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yeah, hard to believe anyone's going to care about Melania Trump working in the U.S. illegally. As someone said somewhere on the internet sometime recently, imagine what people would have said if Obama stood up with his 5 kids from 3 different women at his convention in 2008. Very different standards apply to rich white people.
posted by still_wears_a_hat at 6:31 AM on August 4, 2016 [41 favorites]


I think this was linked up thread, but it bears repeating

NYT Unfiltered Voices
posted by Yowser at 6:31 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


I should have said "because he *had to follow* ADA building codes" because it's the law, thought no doubt his people worked to cut corners and do the bare minimum at every possible turn.

Actually, Trump has a history of lawsuits over ADA noncompliance.
posted by murphy slaw at 6:32 AM on August 4, 2016 [24 favorites]


The Senate will probably not come back into Democratic control without a wholesale implosion of the Republican Party.

So you're saying it's basically a coin flip.
posted by Etrigan at 6:33 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


The underlying reason why this election is absolutely critical and Trump deciding to basically throw the election is so funny is that it really does come down to the SCOTUS.

This last couple of weeks have resulted in no less than 3 cases where Courts have said that state laws have been enacted with the express reason of disenfranchising voters. In the last couple of years states could be relatively certain that an appeal to the SCOTUS would allow them to continue this behavior. However with the Roberts court now missing Scalia the ability to continue to roll back voter protections has gone out the window and it's not entirely clear that Kennedy would've been a secure vote anyway.

So now we have Republicans facing a major issue because their plans at neutralizing the Democratic advantage among certain minority groups are under severe pressure by the courts. There is also increasing evidence that some courts will seek to act more decisively to block heavily gerrymandered districts which could potentially put some Congresscritters at risk.

At the same time Trump is basically trying to piss off every person in the US that isn't melanin-challenged and a substantial number of us as well which means all of their Latino outreach programs basically got annihilated because it's hard to sell Latinos on the idea that the Republican party is the party of Latino values when Cinnamon Hitler is saying most Mexicans are thieves and rapists.

Best case scenario for Republicans right now:

Trump loses and loses decisively so that the party leaders can begin to cull the tea party and white nationalists from the base- they can vote Republican but they don't get to speak ever

Hold the Senate or achieve a tie - let's face it actually being in charge of the Senate sucks unless you have 60 solid seats. If you are willing to abuse the fillibuster and the Republicans are you can make do from a minority position

Hold the House - it's an ungovernable mess but Republicans can live with the status quo they just want to block further progressive initiatives.

Confirm Merrick Garland- seriously guys he's the absolute best you are going to get from the standpoint of being a centrist. Yeah he's not Scalia but you aren't going to get Scalia and there is a good chance you'll get someone way more progressive.

Pour infinite dollars into holding state legislatures - the fight from 2020-2024 will likely be about redistricting and you want to be in the best position possible or else there goes the house for 10 years.
posted by vuron at 6:35 AM on August 4, 2016 [9 favorites]


The Senate will probably not come back into Democratic control without a wholesale implosion of the Republican Party. There's just too many smaller red states and blue voters in California and New York.

Currently the Democratic Party is down four seats. This year there are ten toss-ups. Nine currently held by Republicans - if the Democratic party can win half of them and win the Presidency they get the Senate. Odds are looking good with the Trump millstone.
posted by Francis at 6:35 AM on August 4, 2016 [3 favorites]


Trump wanting to be considered an champion of people with disabilities because he followed ADA building codes is really... rich.

This is classic thinking from the "Job Creator" class though. There's an assumption that anytime you spend money that benefits anyone other yourself the grasping masses should be grateful. It's why employers expect loyalty for paying any sort of wages at all and why they expect credit for "creating jobs" as if running a business is a charitable endeavor and not how they get rich in the first place.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:36 AM on August 4, 2016 [27 favorites]


You know how everyone keeps saying that Trump is just running to prop up his brand?
Foursquare has some interesting data implying that there has been a notable drop-off in visits to Trump-branded properties since his campaign began.
posted by murphy slaw at 6:39 AM on August 4, 2016 [17 favorites]


If Republicans come out to vote for Clinton instead of staying home, they are more likely to split their ticket and vote for Republican senators, unless the Dems really step up their efforts at tying down-ticket candidates to Trump.

I think this is true, but not likely true on a scale that will matter. There will also be Republicans so demoralized that they simply stay home, while the Democratic Party will likely have record turnout. I think if we take either (or both! It's *possible*!) houses of congress, it will be with a narrow margin than that with which we take the presidency.

But fuck that, a win's a win. And if HRC wins with a historic blowout, that tide might just be high enough.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:42 AM on August 4, 2016 [3 favorites]


Meeting the letter of the law doesn't make you a champion Donald. If you could point to evidence that your buildings consistently exceed the ADA requirements and you make accessibility a key feature of your buildings you might have a decent talking point.

But on the other hand you open mocked a journalist with a disability during a speech and you want to roll back ACA which many people with disabilities depend on so I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I guess we are just going to have to follow the NPR method and say that both sides have valid points.
posted by vuron at 6:42 AM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


Foursquare has some interesting data implying that there has been a notable drop-off in visits to Trump-branded properties since his campaign began.

Yeah, but notice that bump from last summer around the time that he announced? That is what he was looking for -- get in the news, get a few favorable polling results, drop out for some bullshit reason, profit. Not even he realized he would end up here.
posted by Etrigan at 6:43 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


TRUMP: HEY AMERICA REMEMBER ME? I HAVE HOTELS
AMERICA: oh yeah
*time passes*
AMERICA: oh now we remember, you're terrible
posted by murphy slaw at 6:45 AM on August 4, 2016 [24 favorites]




The line between MSM and the Onion gets even more blurry.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:47 AM on August 4, 2016 [24 favorites]


The Republican establishment is planning for 2020.

Seriously? They don't even have a plan for getting one person elected three months from now. How are they capable of organizing to get dozens of people elected across the country?

I mean, I hate to underestimate them. But they're letting an almost universally despised dolt represent them as their national leader right now.
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:49 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


(eh...was thinking 2018. But my point remains...)
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:51 AM on August 4, 2016


I wonder where Donald is at on his theoretical Trump Cable Channel.

There was chatter that his whole candidacy was about getting enough free publicity that he could successfully launch a Trump channel (which is both incredibly stupid and incredibly expensive in 2016) because he's upset that he feels like Comcast and NBC make a ton of money off of his brand and he doesn't get compensated fairly in return.

So the idea was get 10-15% grow the brand and then start up a new channel (or at least pretend to in order to shakedown Comcast). Olympics would be over so NBC would be feeling flush from their every 4 years infusion of cash and he could have maximum leverage in negotiations with NBC.

However he apparently accidentally touched into the darkest part of the Republican lizard brain and somehow managed to secure a massive lead and most of the credible challengers failed to launch. Now he's actually the nominee and he's beginning to actually believe his bullshit because he's a monumental narcissist and so he's going full speed ahead despite the seas getting icy and I'm pretty sure there are lots of icebergs named Khan and Clinton in those waters.

He'll probably do just fine because he'll be able to translate his infamy into a massive Fox News deal, if NBC is smart they'll permanently shelve the Apprentice because holy fuck Trump is toxic to advertisers and I don't think you could slide Ivanka into his place without difficulty.
posted by vuron at 6:52 AM on August 4, 2016 [7 favorites]




That foursquare article points out something I hadn't thought of.
[Trump's] hotels, casinos, and golf courses are mainly located in reliably “blue” Democratic states, and depend highly on guests and visitors who live in the region.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:53 AM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


What's getting people excited is the freedom to get rid of all that, to say what they REALLY MEAN, the giddy thrill of being as blunt and gross as they can imagine

In other words, the 80s again.

I think the real answer Trump supporters feel for "When was America great?" is the Reagan years, when the bombing was to begin in 5 minutes, when trees polluted more than cars, when everyone hated liberals and political correctness and seatbelts and driving 55 and ridiculous SNAG/feminist therapist couples and all losers and pansies and nuance and thoughtfulness. The money was rolling in, white people were the majority. The war was cold, and the implacable foe, the USSR, was weak, then non-existent.

The W years were an attempt to reclaim that.. Reaganism sharpened, refined—but also, high on its own supply. It was Reaganism reforged in the flames of bottomless hatred and ultra-partisanship the GOP became in the Clinton years. The moderation and compromise were filtered out. It was all, "FYIGM, there is no truth but power." They wanted the Reagan era landslides (and pretended they got them even when they didn't). They talked of permanent majorities and did everything they could to implement them. They also wanted to move forward, they just had to capture the culturally conservative hispanic demographic, somehow, while not pissing off the white supremacist demographic. They failed. And the W years weren't as glorious as anybody wanted because all their policies were shit. They lost ground in the culture war, and never really were allowed to be as hateful, publicly, as they wanted to be. (Fox News echo chamber cutting both ways.) They overcommitted to an eternal war that was pointless and horrible. The holy and infallible free market screwed the country hard enough that even the conservative base felt it. Constitutional originalism had dissolved back into a pile of bullshit. They lost all the cover of legitimacy; the "adults in charge now" proved to be idiots.

The right wing dreamed of a thousand year reich and wound up with blue balls. And then... ZALGO Obama. Conservatives, smart and dumb alike, were confounded, demoralized, reeling. (Total coincidence that "cuckservative" enters the political conversation during the first black president's term.)

They've still got their Reagan-era fantasies and their Clinton-era hatreds, though. That remains pure. In the Bush era, things got too complicated and now they've snapped back to their base needs and hazy memories of the 80s.

Trump is the second echo of the Reagan years. The Bush way forward failed, so now the Republicans choose Trump, who repudiates GWB. Trump is a man of the 80s, a product and emblem of it, a greedy piggish uncomplicated clown of a man. Conservatives don't actually believe in government or policies or social structure or history, so they have no idea how to actually get back to the 80s, or what that moment in time was really about anyway. They just want to be simplistic winners again, dominating and destroying the people they hate.
posted by nom de poop at 6:54 AM on August 4, 2016 [44 favorites]


As this election continues to get weirder, Trump appears to be harboring an improperly documented immigrant.

It appears that Melania Trump was repeatedly violating the conditions of her B-1 visas, having obtained them by fraud, in the 90s when she illegally worked as a model in New York. This fraud would put the validity of her past green card, current citizenship, and current residence in the United States at risk even though she is currently married to a US citizen.
posted by Blasdelb at 7:00 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


I think the real answer Trump supporters feel for "When was America great?" is the Reagan years, when the bombing was to begin in 5 minutes, when trees polluted more than cars, when everyone hated liberals and political correctness and seatbelts and driving 55 and ridiculous SNAG/feminist therapist couples and all losers and pansies and nuance and thoughtfulness.

if trump wins i'm moving all of my investments into cocaine
posted by murphy slaw at 7:02 AM on August 4, 2016 [7 favorites]


If Trump wins I'm reopening Studio 54 in the White House basement.

Which would actually be kind of fabulous but it would totally be a throw-back to the age of excess.

I wonder if Tom Wolfe would be willing to do a sequel to Bonfire of the Vanities, you know Bret Easton Ellis would be willing to do more things with Patrick Bateman
posted by vuron at 7:07 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


[Trump's] hotels, casinos, and golf courses are mainly located in reliably “blue” Democratic states

Which is why he's convinced himself he has New York and California (the "secret" states) wrapped up.

"They love me there! All the rich people there spend money on my stuff there"
posted by yhbc at 7:07 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


I like to remind everyone in election threads: don't just show up every four years to vote for your preferred candidate. You have to show up for the less high profile elections in your area too, even your school board. A Democrat president needs a Democrat Senate and House.
posted by Kitteh at 7:08 AM on August 4, 2016 [41 favorites]


I have tickets to see John Oliver on New Year's Eve. If Trump wins, Oliver's routine will probably be reduced to 'gibbering with swears' so I'd prefer we not entertain that option.
posted by palindromic at 7:11 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


There's an assumption that anytime you spend money that benefits anyone other yourself the grasping masses should be grateful.

Yes, of course. It's right in line with DT saying a few days ago that employing people to work for him was one of his "sacrifices" (and therefore comparable to the Khan's losing their son). This shit makes the blood boil.
posted by aught at 7:11 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


I've noticed that the Onion hasn't been hitting Trump hard since the RNC. There's no reason to gild the lily.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:13 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


[Couple comments deleted. As ever, please don't say things in the voice of someone who's racist (etc), or say exaggeratedly racist (etc) stuff by way of showing how very bad you think it is to say -- it makes conversations harder and brings pretty gross stuff here needlessly.]
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:14 AM on August 4, 2016 [13 favorites]


I like to remind everyone in election threads: don't just show up every four years to vote for your preferred candidate. You have to show up for the less high profile elections in your area too, even your school board. A Democrat president needs a Democrat Senate and House.

I live in the bluest district in the one of the bluest states in the union. I vote in every election but I'm not tipping anyone over into the win column. I work from home and sometimes I fantasize about moving to a swing state just so I can feel like I'm contributing materially to the de-crazification of the US. :-/
posted by murphy slaw at 7:15 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


The "secret" stuff really gets me. How can people listen to that and not think he's just full of shit? Everyone knows that person from grade school or middle school. Everyone knows that it's bullshit. Some of the other kooky stuff I can kind of understand how someone could believe it, but giving him a pass on the "secret" plans just boggles my mind.
posted by OmieWise at 7:16 AM on August 4, 2016 [7 favorites]


Given the constant series of missteps by the campaign, it's possible that this is Trump's demented version of Howard Dean's 50-state plan.

Has anyone been napping what states he's been visiting? I'm not sure he's left the east coast at any point since his nomination.
posted by Artw at 7:16 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump is a man of the 80s, a product and emblem of it, a greedy piggish uncomplicated clown of a man.

I'm an 80s guy. Friendship means to me that for two bucks I beat you with a pool cue until you have detached retinas.
posted by palindromic at 7:17 AM on August 4, 2016 [6 favorites]


Everyone knows that person from grade school or middle school.

trump's uncle who works at nintendo is his first pick for commerce secretary
posted by murphy slaw at 7:18 AM on August 4, 2016 [15 favorites]


Fair enough zutalors! I'm just reacting to the idea that somehow proving that Melania was an illegal immigrant is going to be a smoking gun to take down Trump.

It doesn't matter if he's hypocritical, Republicans are allowed to be hypocrites, nay they are verily expected to be hypocrites.

Having moral failings like cheating on your taxes, or cheating on your wife, or hiring an undocumented worker to clean your house, or doing any number of ethically compromised things is okay if you act contrite and you present the idea that you still believe the right things but the "flesh was weak".

Republicans seem to love that redeemed sinner cliche and so if you are capable of looking contrite for your trespasses you get a pass.

Trump is showing that now you don't even have to express contrite feelings of remorse or even profess much belief in moral or ethical virtues at all as long as you are willing to act like a Hellfire Preacher in condemning Goody Clinton of devilry and witchcraft!
posted by vuron at 7:18 AM on August 4, 2016 [6 favorites]


if you act contrite and you present the idea that you still believe the right things but the "flesh was weak".

I think the evidence of the real winning strategy here is to either imply or outright say that laws and regulations just aren't faaaaaiiir and thus it isn't really your fault for disregarding them. Taxes are theft!!11! so it's okay to cheat on them. Regulations are bad, so it's okay to go around them. Wimmen be cray (and also they get old and ugly), so it's okay to cheat on them. The party of personal responsibility always has an excuse for why their fuck ups aren't really their fault.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:23 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm just reacting to the idea that somehow proving that Melania was an illegal immigrant is going to be a smoking gun to take down Trump.

It's not a smoking gun, but I bet it's something he could give unhinged voter-repelling pronouncements about for a couple of weeks!
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:24 AM on August 4, 2016 [16 favorites]


As this election continues to get weirder, Trump appears to be harboring an improperly documented immigrant.

The most disturbing part of that story is several paragraphs toward the end which describe Melania Trump's work for a Parisian modeling agency:
"Alé de Basseville, the photographer who shot the [nude] photos, told POLITICO that the shoot took place in a private studio near Manhattan’s Union Square. He declined to name the owner of the studio and said that he encountered Trump through Metropolitan Models, a Paris-based agency with a New York office that was then representing Trump.

To carry out the 1995 New York photo shoot legally, Trump would have required a working visa, likely an H-1B, even if she were not yet living in the United States, as her native Slovenia was not part of the State Department’s visa waiver program until 1997.

Paolo Zampolli, an Italian businessman who was then a partner in Metropolitan and is credited with sponsoring Trump’s entry into the United States and introducing her to her future husband, said that he did not recall that particular shoot or the exact timing of Trump’s first arrival in New York."
posted by octobersurprise at 7:24 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


It appears that Melania Trump was repeatedly violating the conditions of her B-1 visas, having obtained them by fraud, in the 90s when she illegally worked as a model in New York. This fraud would put the validity of her past green card, current citizenship, and current residence in the United States at risk even though she is currently married to a US citizen.

Interestingly enough, Talking Points Memo was working separately on the same story earlier this year, but held it from publication because
...there was at least one theoretically possible way she could have been legal that we couldn't definitively rule out since the Trump's of course were not going to answer any questions or provide any of her immigrants papers. The irony in all of this is that the evidence against Trump comes almost entirely from her own mouth, specifically a January interview she gave to Harper's Bazaar and a subsequent TV interview with Mika Brzezinski in which she explained that she was nothing like those awful 'illegals' her husband wants to expel en masse.

posted by zarq at 7:24 AM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]




Another GOP representative, Charlie Dent, has jumped off the trumpwagon. He's running for re-election this year.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:27 AM on August 4, 2016 [17 favorites]


Bush National Security Adviser: It's Not As Simple As Just Dump Trump:
"It's a very difficult position that a lot of Republicans are in and it sounds easy so a number of my Republican friends have said, 'He does not have the temperament; therefore, I endorse Hillary Clinton.' And that is a legitimate approach," Hadley said. "The problem with that approach is that Republicans will then say, 'Well, you know, you really weren't a Republican anyway' and shelve them. And you then cleave yourself out of the debate within the Republican Party about what does the Republican Party stand for."
posted by palindromic at 7:35 AM on August 4, 2016 [3 favorites]


Paolo Zampolli sounds like a piece of work. He's been involved in some lawsuits for non-payment of commissions and his Ambassadorship from Dominica is one of those titles sold to non-native businessmen.

Not surprised that he flies in the Grifter-in-Chief's circle in NYC of shady as fuck real estate developers.
posted by vuron at 7:35 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


I GIVE NO MORE FUCKS ABOUT MELANIA TRUMP'S VISA STATUS 20 YEARS AGO THAN I DO ABOUT ANYONE WHO CAME HERE AND WORKED "ILLEGALLY" WHETHER THEY WERE POSING FOR FUCKING MAXIM OR PICKING FUCKING TANGERINES JESUS FUCK PEOPLE CAN WE FOCUS ON HER SHITBAG FUCKING HUSBAND AND LEAVE HER OUT OF THIS PLEASE THANKS
posted by dersins at 7:36 AM on August 4, 2016 [80 favorites]


I've noticed that the Onion hasn't been hitting Trump hard since the RNC. There's no reason to gild the lily.

Trump would totally approve of gilding lilies, just like everything!

The Onion: ‘Why Can I Never Seem To Say The Right Thing?’ Weeps Trump Into Pillow
NEW YORK—Quickly running into his bedroom and slamming the door behind him after hearing public criticism of the statements he made regarding the family of a fallen Muslim-American U.S. Army captain, Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump reportedly threw himself on his bed Tuesday and asked himself “Why can I never seem to say the right thing?” while weeping into his pillow. “Every time I open my mouth, the words come out all wrong,” Trump reportedly said in between long, heaving sobs, his voice muffled by the pillow as he occasionally pounded a balled-up fist into the mattress. “I try so hard, but I just can’t talk right, and everyone gets so mad at me. I just wish I could talk nicely like everyone else.” At press time, an exhausted Trump had reportedly cried himself into a perfectly sound sleep.
The Onion is rationing their ™rump coverage, but it's a steady drip-feed of premium satire, e.g. "Trump Sick and Tired of Mainstream Media Always Trying To Put His Words Into Some Sort of Context" and "Trump Campaign Ponders Going Negative".
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:39 AM on August 4, 2016 [6 favorites]


Trump properties have seen a double-digit decrease in visits from women this year, with a gap that widened starting in March 2016.

Anecdata: I had an abstract accepted at a meeting this year. By the time I found out, the host hotel and almost every surrounding hotel was completely booked. The only hotel where I wouldn't have had to rent a car, that still had availability, was a Trump property. I turned down the opportunity to go and will submit the abstract to a future conference.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:39 AM on August 4, 2016 [48 favorites]


I GIVE NO MORE FUCKS ABOUT MELANIA TRUMP'S VISA STATUS 20 YEARS AGO THAN

Dude, the point isn't "Melania Trump did a bad thing, and therefore we shouldn't support Donald Trump". The point is "Donald Trump condemns other people for doing the same thing as his very own wife, and that makes him a hypocrite".
posted by escape from the potato planet at 7:39 AM on August 4, 2016 [76 favorites]


So Republicans want to dump Trump but they are afraid of the consequences of doing so in public because then they might get off from the room were the debate about the future of the Republican party will be decided. Dare I say that they are afraid of being left out of the room where it happens?

Understandable but sometimes you just gotta go full Corb and say "Nope enough is enough" even if it means you aren't anywhere near the room where it happens.

At least you get some free drinks and get to speak to reporters for a few days.
posted by vuron at 7:39 AM on August 4, 2016 [7 favorites]


Another GOP representative, Charlie Dent, has jumped off the trumpwagon. He's running for re-election this year.

From the article:
Dent joins a growing number of Republican officials who have confirmed that they won't be voting for Donald Trump, including Rep. Richard Hanna (R-NY) and Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-IL).

"officials" is such a handy vague term, but aren't these three the only sitting reps publically coming out against Trump?
posted by moody cow at 7:41 AM on August 4, 2016


"officials" is such a handy vague term, but aren't these three the only sitting reps publically coming out against Trump?

Yes, and of them, Hanna is not running for re-election.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:43 AM on August 4, 2016


That Onion article almost made me feel sorry for Donald for a moment Doktor Zed because I'm pretty sure young (and let's be honest older) vuron was totally the type of kid to do that and I'm pretty sure that my daughter has inherited that sort of self-shaming behavior.

So for a second Trump seemed human to me which is probably a good thing because despite looking like a complete caricature of a human being I guess he's still human but damn I didn't want to have any feels about Donald...
posted by vuron at 7:43 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


vuron: Fair enough zutalors! I'm just reacting to the idea that somehow proving that Melania was an illegal immigrant is going to be a smoking gun to take down Trump.

The thing is, there's almost never a smoking gun. Sometimes there's a scandal, like with Anthony Weiner, which forces someone out of office. But very often politicians are targeted with low-level garbage over time, that erodes public trust and confidence.

This is one of my favorite stories, and that lesson in psychology applies in these circumstances as well. Repeat a lie often enough and to enough people, and folks will begin to believe it's true. It's why whisper campaigns are effective.

Look at Hillary Clinton. The number of conspiracy theories that conservatives with an axe to grind have thrown at her is astonishing. She's been attacked for over two decades, and now a decent number of people will say when polled that she's not trustworthy (evidence to the contrary notwithstanding).

So evidence suggests that Mrs. Trump lied. Will she face consequences for that? Most likely not. Over time though, it's yet another dent in the Trumps' integrity and reputation. Enough dents, and a pattern of hypocrisy and privilege emerges that becomes harder to ignore.
posted by zarq at 7:44 AM on August 4, 2016 [10 favorites]


Dude, the point isn't "Melania Trump did a bad thing, and therefore we shouldn't support Donald Trump". The point is "Donald Trump condemns other people for doing the same thing as his very own wife, and that makes him a hypocrite".

Yes, but the list of things Trump is a hypocrite about is long, and the list of things about which Trump is simply a horrific fucking nightmare is even longer, and hypocrite does not crack the top ten. So it sort of seems like validating the bullshit premise ("'illegals' are bad and they should feel bad!") for no good reason.

I also do not give a flying fuck about Melania's immigration status, and would prefer to keep talking about the clownish fascist who is trying to burn down our country.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:47 AM on August 4, 2016 [14 favorites]


Dude, the point isn't "Melania Trump did a bad thing, and therefore we shouldn't support Donald Trump". The point is "Donald Trump condemns other people for doing the same thing as his very own wife, and that makes him a hypocrite".

If "xenophobic misogynistic cryptofascist race-baiting toupeed canned ham" didn't put 40% of the country off of him already, I don't think "hypocrite" is going to be the magic bullet you're hoping for.

I'm with dersins: there's plenty to hate on Trump without dragging in Melania. Between the weird magazine cover with a 20-year-old nude photo, and now this, I don't think we need to add liberal misogyny to this tire fire.
posted by Mayor West at 7:49 AM on August 4, 2016 [17 favorites]


The point is "Donald Trump condemns other people for doing the same thing as his very own wife, and that makes him a hypocrite".

He was already a hypocrite for the way in which he talks about immigration in general, for the way in which his businesses employ immigrants, for the ways in which he outsources labor. It is not necessary to drag his wife's visa status into the discussion to make the point that Donald trump is a hypocrite. But once you bring his wife's visa status up you have to make the implicit argument that what she did could be seen as bad, or else what's the problem? And while I would much prefer we not ever condone attacks on immigrants -- even by proxy or by implication -- lest we fall into the rhetoric that Trump espouses, even ironically, I would especially love it if we didn't do it when we don't need to.

If you want to attack Trump for his hypocrisy on immigration, his business dealings are fertile ground for all sorts of critiques.
posted by cjelli at 7:49 AM on August 4, 2016 [9 favorites]


[A few comments deleted; enough with the capslock and the debate thereon.]
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:52 AM on August 4, 2016 [3 favorites]


Breitbart Passes Off Photo of Cleveland Cavaliers Parade as Trump Rally:
Breitbart News posted a photo Wednesday alongside an article headlined "Trump's Jacksonville Rally Draws 15,000" that actually showed a crowd during a celebratory parade for the Cleveland Cavaliers winning the NBA finals this year.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:52 AM on August 4, 2016 [25 favorites]


The concern about Republicans coming out to vote for Hilary is really true for me here in Florida. I have a close friend who is deep into the 1% and I am probably her only friend who isn't. She texted me to tell me I'd be proud of her that she has decided that IF she votes, she's going to vote Hilary-because Rubio went back on his promise to not run for reelection and she wants to vote for him. She says nobody she knows is voting Trump and were probably going to sit out the whole election until he stayed in and they all want to make sure he retains his seat.

I'm super conflicted between encouraging her to vote and just staying quiet and hope she gets distracted on November 8th.
posted by hollygoheavy at 7:52 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


Dude, the point isn't "Melania Trump did a bad thing, and therefore we shouldn't support Donald Trump". The point is "Donald Trump condemns other people for doing the same thing as his very own wife, and that makes him a hypocrite".

We already know Trump is a scumbag and a hypocrite, though. Why do we need to shit on his wife just to prove a point that's not even up for debate?
posted by dersins at 7:56 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


there's plenty to hate on Trump without dragging in Melania.

She gave a speech at his convention. Nobody is dragging her anywhere.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:57 AM on August 4, 2016 [12 favorites]


Although let's be honest CAPSLOCK is always cruise control for awesome but for the sake of the Mods we should probably wait to put the daily ElectionFilter thread into it's final form closer to the election.

However when we inevitably have an election thread that goes over 9000 posts I am definitely pulling out a Vegeta OVER 9000! meme post.

I also agree with the desire to drop this thread regarding Melania. There is more than enough stuff about Trump that is worth attacking him without drawing Melania into the fray. Yes technically she has agreed to a certain degree of scrutiny about her past by becoming a prospective FLOTUS but let's be honest Metafilter doesn't always have a great track record when it comes to shaming women.
posted by vuron at 7:57 AM on August 4, 2016 [3 favorites]


I will bet you many dollars that what he actually saw was some stock footage of a cargo plane being unloaded that was running behind whatever cable news he had on today.

Congrats soren_lorensen on calling this one last night at 8:53 PM:

WaPo: Donald Trump did not actually watch an Iranian recording of that controversial money transfer
The Washington Post asked Trump's staff to explain what Trump was talking about and emailed a link to a Fox News clip that showed the January footage from Geneva, asking if that was the video the nominee saw.

"Yes," spokeswoman Hope Hicks responded in an email. "Merely the b-roll footage included in every broadcast."
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:57 AM on August 4, 2016 [18 favorites]


As someone who's life has been affected by heavy-handed immigration, Melania's hypocrisy certainly does make a difference. She is the one who chooses to contrast her behavior with "illegals." She gave a speech at the RNC. She is not just a sideliner in this election story, she has made her experience part of the story.

For what it's worth, I believe her experiences point out how ridiculously difficult it is for anyone to follow the immigration guidelines to the letter. Schwarzenegger, it has been pointed out, was also illegal at one time. This is why we should have compassion (and a better policy). This is why Melania's lack of compassion is her own fault and not just the hypocrisy of her husband.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:57 AM on August 4, 2016 [61 favorites]


Congrats soren_lorensen on calling this one last night at 8:53 PM:

Stand by for my PayPal link...
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:59 AM on August 4, 2016 [6 favorites]


Trump properties have seen a double-digit decrease in visits from women this year, with a gap that widened starting in March 2016.

I said it umpteen threads back, but this is not surprising at all and I suspect multi-year contracts - as are commonplace for conference-type event bookings - are helping slow the bleeding in the short term but will further pain Trump down the road. I was at an event at the Doral in Feb/Mar and the organizers weren't happy about it. They'd booked the location before Trump even officially joined the primaries and by the time the insanity was clear it was too late, financially and logistically, to change venues.

This is an organization that leans firmly right and represents a group that's solidly right as well (though Trump's positive tariff talk is anathema to them) but they were unhappy to have the association even then. Now? I am 99% confident that if they could withdraw from the the remaining two years of booking without penalty they'd have done it already.

I'm going to be very interested to see what their attendance is like next year and whether it diminishes sharply. Unfortunately it will be hard to know why - assuming it does - since Doral is kind of a shit location if you actually want to leave the property. It's firmly in the middle of a business/industrial area of town and far into the mainland for anyone interested in the beach.
posted by phearlez at 7:59 AM on August 4, 2016 [6 favorites]


The thing is Trump probably isn't strictly a hypocrite here either. Chances are he had no idea, and didn't care (maybe that part is hypocrisy), what her immigration status was when he married her.
posted by dis_integration at 8:00 AM on August 4, 2016


I don't get the anger over talking about Melania's immigration history. It seems like a relevant topic to me.
posted by diogenes at 8:00 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


I feel like the pray-away-the-gay guy with a cigarette fixation is kind of a Checkov's gun for this particular kind of dilemma.
posted by Artw at 8:02 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


Today's schedule: Trump is in Portland Maine at 3pm, Clinton in Las Vegas sometime between 12:30 and 3:00pm, local time.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:02 AM on August 4, 2016


Two things have me optimistic this morning:

1) This bounce for Hillary is not for strange or artificial reasons. It's because each party had their best chance to make their case, and one failed with its terrible message and the other succeeded with its well-reasoned message. As Josh Marshall wrote this morning:

...now it looks like gravity does work. Acting like a maniac on the public stage is making some people less likely to vote for Trump. Scott Baio wasn't as persuasive a messenger as Barack Obama or Bill Clinton. Trump is starting to look like as big a political loser as you'd expect - or at least hope.

2) Trump is almost guaranteed to reinforce any negative cycle he's in. The very rare condition in which Trump would be ahead would be one in which Trump was way ahead, lending genuine fear and a shadowy populace to his air of dominance. But Trump cannot run from behind. Being aggrieved makes him so determined to dominate anyway that he pitches self-destructive fits.

I cautiously expect that the rest of this campaign is going to look like the Poltergeist house imploding.
posted by argybarg at 8:02 AM on August 4, 2016 [11 favorites]


If you don't see it as an attack on Melania (which I do, but other people have spoken to that better than I), and you want to look at it another way: I think it matters what Trump is hypocritical about -- people are okay with some flip-flopping for the right reasons. As a purely persuasive matter, 'he was a hypocrite...for the love of his wife' is not going to sway anyone who was planning to vote for Trump. That's exactly the kind of situation when you're supposed to bend the rules, right? 'He was a hypocrite...for shipping American jobs overseas, when his specific election promise is to not do that' is not exactly romance, and it's more likely to sway people's opinions.
posted by cjelli at 8:02 AM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


The concern about Republicans coming out to vote for Hilary is really true for me here in Florida. I have a close friend who is deep into the 1% and I am probably her only friend who isn't. She texted me to tell me I'd be proud of her that she has decided that IF she votes, she's going to vote Hilary

This is the nucleus of my hope for this November. I think I've mentioned this before, but my parents are both hardcore GOP'ers, folks who haven't missed an election since Nixon. Every two years, they dutifully vote straight-ticket R, even knowing that they're in a state that hasn't gone red since McGovern's humiliation. If you ask them about it when they're in the same room, both will tell you that this year will be more of the same. Yet, in a private conversation about it, my mother has admitted to me that she can't bring herself to vote for an obviously misogynist narcissist. She'll still vote R down-ticket, but the presidential vote is going to be blank, or third-party. Even the GOP faithful are having a crisis of conscience that doesn't necessarily show up in polls.
posted by Mayor West at 8:03 AM on August 4, 2016 [10 favorites]


I'm in the camp of Free Trade needs to come with Freedom of Movement which is why I got so frustrated with Brexit because I felt like the EU model was the right one and I don't want to see more of the NAFTA model where we are perfectly willing to use cheap Mexican labor working in bad conditions in maquiladoras in border areas of Mexico where they are fair game for corrupt cops and cartels but god forbid that some immigrants try to cross the border in order to achieve a better life in the US.

More power to Melania for seeking out her fame and fortune in the Greatest City in the World. Yes it's hypocritical for her to attack other immigrants for wanting good things for themselves and their families but let's be honest pulling up the drawbridge behind us has been a time honored strategy for new USians. She's a total hypocrite but so are most Americans.

Irish need not apply has morphed into hatred of Latinos.
posted by vuron at 8:05 AM on August 4, 2016 [12 favorites]


Congrats soren_lorensen on calling this one last night at 8:53 PM:

Stand by for my PayPal link...


PayPal transfers No Prizes?

Scott Baio wasn't as persuasive a messenger as Barack Obama or Bill Clinton.

Whodathunk?
posted by phearlez at 8:05 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


I think there's gonna be a lot of Republican women who pull the lever for Hillary this year who may never say so to a pollster, or their husband, or their friends.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:06 AM on August 4, 2016 [49 favorites]


The Washington Post asked Trump's staff to explain what Trump was talking about and emailed a link to a Fox News clip that showed the January footage from Geneva, asking if that was the video the nominee saw.

"Yes," spokeswoman Hope Hicks responded in an email. "Merely the b-roll footage included in every broadcast."


A spokesperson for a candidate for President of the United States has just insisted to a national newspaper that their candidate was merely not telling the truth.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 8:07 AM on August 4, 2016 [29 favorites]


macfly: "although the $6T number included the next 40 years of veterans benefits which is a little bit shady math"

All war "costs" should be figured this way. That they aren't in an effort to sell imperialism is the shady part.

murphy slaw: "the melania immigration issue might have some legs but i really hope that nobody in the clinton campaign or their surrogates touches it with a ten foot pole. it will look petty"

Immigration services (whatever you all are calling it now) must have a tip line that could be flooded by interested parties. I'd feel sorry for the people responsible for investigations though.

However it could have the positive impact of getting part of the Trump clan to speak out against deep historical investigations of immigration fraud.

dis_integration: "The thing is Trump probably isn't strictly a hypocrite here either. Chances are he had no idea, and didn't care (maybe that part is hypocrisy), what her immigration status was when he married her."

Well true love will blind you to those sort of issues.
posted by Mitheral at 8:09 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


The "secret" stuff really gets me. How can people listen to that and not think he's just full of shit?

Well, going back to my Trumpist uncle, he knows Trump is full of shit. He thinks it's hilarious. It's just another signal that Trump is not a "politician".
posted by dirigibleman at 8:09 AM on August 4, 2016 [11 favorites]


Some perspective on the Jacksonville rally last night:

The Veteran's Memorial Arena holds 15k and the only local news source that will define "thousands" says "over 10 thousand" people attended the rally.

The way the venue is built, you place the stage anywhere you want and block off the empty part of the arena behind you so it can look like you have a packed house when you might only have a couple thousand people there.

Rather than Breitbart's ridiculous picture that the had to take down, here is an arial photo from the local paper's website that shows the actual line to get in. Not impressive. Sad.
posted by hollygoheavy at 8:10 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


Scott Baio wasn't as persuasive a messenger as Barack Obama or Bill Clinton.

This will end up in the first paragraph of Baio's obituary.
posted by Etrigan at 8:10 AM on August 4, 2016 [12 favorites]


'he was a hypocrite...for the love of his wife' is not going to sway anyone who was planning to vote for Trump. That's exactly the kind of situation when you're supposed to bend the rules, right?

Except the issue is that he gets away with it. He was a hypocrite because he talks about the system keeping you down with "illegals," then he does it and gets away with it because he's rich and you're not. He says we're going to have all sorts of rules and walls but he's showing you that the people with means will ignore those rules, same as always.

That's the message you beat the drum about, not the details of the immigration. Trump wants rules, but not for him or his other rich buddies. It plays right next to the fact that he doesn't want any rules that inconvenience his rich mine and manufacturing plant buddies, like the ones that say they should have let you have proper safety gear.

If he's gathering followers because they are people who feel mistreated and ignored by the government it is absolutely on point to show that he's no different. You can't flip the Trump-loving true believers to vote HRC by any means. You can only turn them off so they don't want to vote for him anymore. Showing that he's horrible doesn't do that; many of them like that. Showing that he's full of shit and will continue to set rules for them and not him might.
posted by phearlez at 8:11 AM on August 4, 2016 [15 favorites]


I don't get the anger over talking about Melania's immigration history. It seems like a relevant topic to me.
I think that a lot of people would be sympathetic to a young woman from Eastern Europe who played a bit fast and loose with immigration rules to get modeling work in the US. That reflects a lot of biases, but I think that's the case. Trump is doing so many things that totally push people's buttons and enrage them, and I don't think this is a winning thing to go with. I basically am in favor of leaving Melania alone and focusing on the candidate, who is plenty toxic on his own.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:12 AM on August 4, 2016 [7 favorites]


This will end up in the first paragraph of Baio's obituary.

Obituaries only get written when someone notices & cares that someone died.
posted by phearlez at 8:13 AM on August 4, 2016 [14 favorites]


Epiphany: Trump makes more sense as a sentient being if you imagine three children stacked on top of each other inside a grown up costume a la Vincent Adultman.
posted by Tevin at 8:14 AM on August 4, 2016 [8 favorites]


What if he's several fish, and not a guy?
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:15 AM on August 4, 2016 [7 favorites]


via Peter Staley: Since the day Hillary Clinton made her "AIDS gaffe" at Nancy Reagan's funeral, I've put all the resulting emails in an Outlook folder as a coalition of 90+ AIDS advocates/groups launched our "lemons into lemonade" campaign. That folder now has 2,721 emails in it. Our efforts with Hillary's transition team will easily add another 1,000. I love this work.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:18 AM on August 4, 2016 [6 favorites]


I think that a lot of people would be sympathetic to a young woman from Eastern Europe who played a bit fast and loose with immigration rules to get modeling work in the US.

Fair enough. I see it as another example of Trumps profound lack of empathy. I'm already sympathetic to many of the reasons that people end up here, but I like to think that if I wasn't, being married to someone who came here illegally would push me somewhat in that direction.
posted by diogenes at 8:19 AM on August 4, 2016


Attacking Melania's immigration status will not be seen as trying to point out a hypocrite it will be seen by people in immigrant communities as Democrats being no better than Republicans.

If we are really the party of immigrants and I honestly hope that we are pointing out Melania's hypocrisy is pointless and self-defeating. Instead of attacking her we should say that there are tons of deserving men, women and children in the US that are working hard to make the US a better place everyday and every single one of them deserve the chances that Melania got.

That's how to make this minor embarassment into a powerful message.
posted by vuron at 8:19 AM on August 4, 2016 [44 favorites]


That Katrina Pierson link is amazing.

"Why I always gotta be the genious behind the scenes? I belong out front!"

Mmm. Yes, yes. Now, I'm not a campaign strategist but I did glance at the cover of the West Wing Season 2 DVD once, and it occurred to me that the Dems may want to bring her out front in equal measure with The Hypocrite Loser.

Kinda yin/yang kaleidoscope of id-based media staining. Like "Vote for this. No, really. You love it. This is you. Own it."
posted by petebest at 8:19 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


Well, going back to my Trumpist uncle, he knows Trump is full of shit. He thinks it's hilarious.

I really think it's like pro wrestling. Wrestling fans know it's bullshit, they just enjoy it. They also know the effects in horror movies are just effects and they probably understand that reality TV is kind of staged. It's the feeling of getting caught up in it that's fun. Someone going on and on about how it's all full of shit is missing the point.

I put Trump in with: horror movies, pro wrestling, monster trucks, reality TV. They're part of a culture, they're enjoyable bullshit, they make good trucker hats and T-shirts and they're a chance to roar along and feel powerful.

The problem is they're niche. Put them on the national stage and a whole lot of people are going to say "no thanks." Especially when the day of handing over actual power approaches.
posted by argybarg at 8:19 AM on August 4, 2016 [10 favorites]


Except the issue is that he gets away with it. He was a hypocrite because he talks about the system keeping you down with "illegals," then he does it and gets away with it because he's rich and you're not.

I don't think that actually works, for two reasons: firstly, because in a lot of Trump's rhetoric -- and to a lot of Trump's base -- 'illegals' is a dogwhistle for 'non-white immigrants who I don't know' and Melania is white and someone Trump knows. Ergo, there's no hypocrisy: she's a specific person he married, not a nebulous idea to rally against. Secondly, because a lot of Trump's rhetorical appeal (from having watched too many of his rallies) is that he tries to pull you inside the con: his appeal is founded in part on the idea that he gets away with stuff -- and once he's president, he's going to make America get away with stuff, and you, the rally-goer, are going to be on the inside of the con right along with him.

When he gets away with things that are specifically what he's promising to not do is where I think he's more vulnerable to criticism -- in his business dealings, and his friendships (as you rightly note) with mine owners who flout safety regulations and with manufacturers who outsource jobs.
posted by cjelli at 8:19 AM on August 4, 2016 [8 favorites]


Fred Clark at Slacktivist draws some great parallels between what Republicans need to do re: Trump and what they had to do in Louisiana during the Edwin Edwards/David Duke 91 election.

Louisiana Republicans hated Edwin Edwards and they were fiercely determined to prevent him from retaking office for another term as governor. But unfortunately, GOP primary voters were split between Gov. Roemer and U.S. Rep. Clyde Holloway and Duke, with Duke coming out ahead.

And David Duke was a former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, an outspoken white supremacist, and an ally of Neo-Nazi groups.

Although Duke won the Republican nomination, he was not endorsed by Republican officials in Louisiana. Instead, they condemned him as “unfit for office,” urging Louisiana voters to stop him by voting for Edwards. Louisiana Republicans famously distributed bumper stickers reading “Vote for the Crook. It’s important.”

posted by emjaybee at 8:20 AM on August 4, 2016 [11 favorites]


Clinton's response to the AIDs gaffe is illustrative of the difference between how her campaign and Trump's respond to criticism.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:22 AM on August 4, 2016 [9 favorites]


"When they go low, we go high." Or did you think Michelle Obama was only telling a story about her family's values? If that wasn't included as a reminder to try to avoid the mud and make a positive argument, I'd be surprised. It's pretty clear that kind of campaigning is the kind Barack Obama prefers - appeal to the best in people because the system does work and is made of people who largely want to make things better. So any discussion of Melania Trump should just emphasize that all immigrants deserve the same chances.
posted by R343L at 8:23 AM on August 4, 2016 [42 favorites]


what's next? a confession that he dyes his hair with orange rit?

Nah. He uses TAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNGERINES! /flaming lips

You're welcome.
posted by notsnot at 8:24 AM on August 4, 2016 [10 favorites]




Fred Clark at Slacktivist draws some great parallels between what Republicans need to do re: Trump and what they had to do in Louisiana during the Edwin Edwards/David Duke 91 election.

Except there's zero evidence today's Republican party will turn away from Trump no matter how bad he gets. They've all fully endorsed him to this point, thoughout the primary process and now into the general. They've gone so far as to engage in unprecedented obstruction of the sitting President's right to even appoint a Supreme Court Justice, in order to hold that appointment open for Donald Trump.

Today's Paul Ryan's and Mitch McConnell's would be doing the same for David Duke if he had managed to win the nomination, and there's a good possibility he could have if he had ran instead of Trump. I bet Duke is kicking himself for not running in the Presidential.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:25 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


I really think it's like pro wrestling. Wrestling fans know it's bullshit, they just enjoy it.

This is what really terrifies me - we have built a culture where people are not capable of making a meaningful distinction between an appropriate response to entertainment and an appropriate response to their part in governing our country.

I keep trying to figure out how on earth you address this but short of going back in time, banning reality television and requiring significant mandatory hours in logic, history and ethics classes for all Americans starting in first grade and continuing through graduate school I can't see how it can be done.
posted by winna at 8:26 AM on August 4, 2016 [20 favorites]


Well, going back to my Trumpist uncle, he knows Trump is full of shit. He thinks it's hilarious. It's just another signal that Trump is not a "politician".

It seems clear to me that to many this election is - Do you want to vote for (A) a well-known politician , or vote (B) Fuck no!!! I hate politicians!!! Some people loathe 'politics' enough that they feel unable to vote for (A).
posted by puddledork at 8:26 AM on August 4, 2016 [3 favorites]


i just realized why the optics of hounding melania over her immigration status feel so gross.

it has the same structure as hounding obama over his birth certificate.

(i realize that they're not equivalent but the parallel is there)
posted by murphy slaw at 8:28 AM on August 4, 2016 [7 favorites]


I think that a lot of people would be sympathetic to a young woman from Eastern Europe who played a bit fast and loose with immigration rules to get modeling work in the US.
Well, I don't, but then I don't think she did that. She likely did not play fast and loose, she probably just went about her business and inadvertently violated a law or six because we have a complicated, hard-to-navigate system. I don't see a thing wrong with or interesting about Melania Trump immigrating here and working. But what I do find curious: why is "therrterrkerrjerrbs" okay in Melania's case and in the case of the eastern European guest workers Trump hires to staff his hotels, but we have to spend a kathrillion bucks to build a seventy-foot-high wall to keep out Mexican people who would like to do the same thing? Just exactly what accounts for that? What if Donald were to drop his GreaterWall plan and instead open his Trumphotel-jobs-for-guest-workers program to our neighbors to the south?
posted by Don Pepino at 8:29 AM on August 4, 2016 [3 favorites]


Yes there are lots of people on the right and the alt-right that quietly concede that Trump is an awful candidate and he should lose in a landslide because he's an awful candidate. They don't like Hillary but they concede she's already got this won.

They like that despite Trump being an awful candidate that he's pushing the Overton window way way to the right so that they can go back to being racist assholes in public without fear of getting shamed. Well let's be honest most of them will just remain being racist assholes online via the cover of anonymity or pseudo-anonymity.

Like arbybarg says these are the Smarks (Smart Marks) who know that Trump is bullshit and is going to lose anyway but appreciate the effort and the style that he's putting into being a demagogue. They appreciate the effort and talent involved in staying outrageous enough to do a promo reel for the better part of a year already.

They actually don't care if Trump is playing a character and Cinnamon Hitler is kayfabe or if Trump is WYSIWYG because it really doesn't matter to them. They get to call people rude names and chant for the Heel character for a year (because Smarks love Heels).
posted by vuron at 8:29 AM on August 4, 2016 [10 favorites]


Important point though:

Trump is flopping in the national spotlight. Most people dislike him and what he represents.
posted by argybarg at 8:31 AM on August 4, 2016 [3 favorites]


Aren't people who think they're in on the con always the easiest to con?
posted by Artw at 8:32 AM on August 4, 2016 [42 favorites]


Ol' Trump is going to come out crazier than usual today if Melania had to address her immigration status. He's going birther again I bet.
posted by readery at 8:32 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think that a lot of people would be sympathetic to a young woman from Eastern Europe who played a bit fast and loose with immigration rules to get modeling work in the US.

NYC has lots of people who do cash-in-hand casual jobs on visitor visas, and there are definitely a lot of white out-of-status residents in the city. From 2007: "There are an estimated 50,000 Irish illegal immigrants in the U.S.; 30,000 of them are thought to live in New York City."

I'm not comfortable litigating Melania Trump's past. Some Gawker comment threads have included (unverifiable) accounts of her pre-Trump career in the US, and they're more a reflection on the inherent sketchiness of the modelling industry -- to speak euphemistically, that it's often a payment-in-kind business -- than on the models themselves.
posted by holgate at 8:32 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


"Kayfabe" is a new word for me, never heard or read it at all before these recent election posts. Had to look it up.

It is the portrayal of staged events as if they were real or true.
posted by yesster at 8:34 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


I give no pass to Donald, his adult children or anyone who associates with him. All of them - while maybe not repudiating him – have now and have had the option to distance themselves from the ignorance of DT and his candidacy. I believe their continued appearance on the Trump Train is a willful act of deception & fraud. At this point, they are no better than the repugnant candidate and have long since passed the point where sympathy can be felt for them.
posted by lampshade at 8:37 AM on August 4, 2016 [12 favorites]


appeal to the best in people because the system does work and is made of people who largely want to make things better.

This is almost but not quite right. The system works when it is made of people who largely want to make things better. With our current Congress, it's very clear what happens when people who do not want to make things better run the system.
posted by nonasuch at 8:39 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


Paul Ryan's moral backbone, as ever, is something to behold: My Endorsements Are Not 'Blank Checks'
posted by argybarg at 8:39 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


Most WWE fans like John Cena despite the smarks hating on him for the better part of a decade.

Because John Cena is cool.

It would be one thing if Trump was a brilliant heel like CM Punk who could go full heel but also impress with his quality of wrestling and his awesome promos but Trump seems more like a Miz (good at promos but horrible at wrestling) or Roman Reigns (horrible at both promos and wrestling).

On the other hand Clinton is maybe not the strongest at promos at least in comparison to Barack "The Rock" Obama and Bill "Stone Cold" Clinton but she's decent and she's basically like Daniel Bryan with a wrestling ability that simply cannot be denied despite how much the audience wants big bruisers for wrestlers.

Man I'm feeling really weird using WWE and wrasslin knowledge in a political thread but that's 2016 for ya!
posted by vuron at 8:40 AM on August 4, 2016 [17 favorites]


"Kayfabe" is a new word for me, never heard or read it at all before these recent election posts. Had to look it up.

It is the portrayal of staged events as if they were real or true.


NY Times: Is Everything Wrestling?
So when I think of how politics and pop culture are often compared to wrestling, this is the element that seems most transferable: not the outlandish characters or the jumbo-size threats, but the insistence on telling a great story with no regard for the facts. Donald Trump can claim there were thousands of Muslims in New Jersey cheering when the World Trade Center came down. Bill Clinton can lend weight to the myth of pedantic Bernie Bros overwhelming our national political discourse. Michael Jordan can say he was cut from his varsity basketball team, but was driven enough to overcome the slight. Kim Kardashian can say she married Kris Humphries for love, not ratings. Chance the Rapper can brand himself as an independent, unsigned artist, even though his last two mixtapes were released exclusively through Apple, the 12th-largest corporation in the world. And the WWE can honor the recently deceased wrestling star Chyna as a trailblazer, even though it blacklisted her for an entire decade. Each of these doctored realities is close enough, a problem only for pedants.

You can be dismayed with all of this for reasons that go deeper than taste.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:40 AM on August 4, 2016 [8 favorites]


I'm enjoying the battle of the billionaire surrgates, with Bloomberg, Buffet, Cuban, Soros, and Whitman facing off against Adelson, Icahn and Theil. Meanwhile Bezos, Gates and Zuckerman signal their support for Hillary and the Koch brothers quit the T-ball team.
posted by carmicha at 8:41 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


Paul Ryan's moral backbone, as ever, is something to behold: My Endorsements Are Not 'Blank Checks'

why do they think that this maddening legalese is going to protect them from the consequences of hitching their wagons to trump?
posted by murphy slaw at 8:42 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


If we are really the party of immigrants and I honestly hope that we are pointing out Melania's hypocrisy is pointless and self-defeating. Instead of attacking her ...

No one is campaigning against Melania Trump and no one in their right mind would campaign against Melania Trump. And certainly no one should campaign against Melania Trump.

OTOH, being a candidate or even a candidate's partner inevitably results in a higher degree of attention to one's words and biography. And when the words and the biography start to look contradictory it's going to raise questions.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:43 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


You have to show up for the less high profile elections in your area too, even your school board.

For the first time, I left a section blank on my ballot earlier this year, and it was for school board. Of the three candidates, one was running on a badly spelled Facebook campaign that boiled down to "NO BOYS IN THE GIRL BATHROM GET REALL PEOPLE AND USE YOU COMMON SENSE," one was a Libertarian blowhard scumbag that I remembered from the city council growing up, and the third - the incumbent - was a long-serving and competent school board member. Unfortunately, he was endorsed by the Republican party. Sorry, Charlie; you won anyway, and that's fine, you'll probably continue to do a perfectly serviceable job, but not with my help.
posted by infinitywaltz at 8:44 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


Wow, it's a wonder that Paul Ryan can do that totally awesome workout routine where he does a lotta free weights and cardio between pounding protein shakes because he's totally bulk ya know with a spine apparently made out of silly putty.

Ohh 2012 when all we had to make fun of for weeks at a time was Paul Ryan doing his bro-lifting vanity pictures. You were simpler times.
posted by vuron at 8:45 AM on August 4, 2016 [3 favorites]


Can Archie make Betty AND Veronica happy?
posted by Artw at 8:48 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


omg now i'm imagining ryan in a sitcom farce where he has to keep running back and forth between two birthday parties

so much sad trombone
posted by murphy slaw at 8:50 AM on August 4, 2016 [7 favorites]




Paul Ryan, Scott Walker and Ron Johnson are all skipping Trump's Friday rally in Green Bay.
posted by carmicha at 8:51 AM on August 4, 2016 [3 favorites]


I put Trump in with: horror movies, pro wrestling, monster trucks, reality TV. They're part of a culture, they're enjoyable bullshit, they make good trucker hats and T-shirts and they're a chance to roar along and feel powerful.

and,

Well, going back to my Trumpist uncle, he knows Trump is full of shit. He thinks it's hilarious. It's just another signal that Trump is not a "politician".

and,

It seems clear to me that to many this election is - Do you want to vote for (A) a well-known politician , or vote (B) Fuck no!!! I hate politicians!!! Some people loathe 'politics' enough that they feel unable to vote for (A).

All of this seems intuitively sensible to me. I think a lot of Trump primary voters weren't voting for a presidential nominee – not really. They were voting for another year of crass entertainment; they were voting as a "fuck you" to (what they see as) out-of-touch elitists; they were voting for the lulz of watching the librul media and establishment politicians have a massive collective aneurysm.

I have been shocked over the past year, frankly, to learn just how much of that feeling is out there. And I don't understand what's behind it. Some of the recent conversation about Hillbilly Elegy has illuminated it somewhat, and I think lot of it can be understood as reactionary backlash against recent advances by progressives. But it remains strange and surprising and frightening. I knew there were plenty of, uh, colorful conservatives out there...but I didn't know they were so ready to chop off America's nose to spite its face. It seems to go beyond mere political disaffection, into straight-up nihilism. It's gonna fuck America up bad if we don't figure out what to do with it.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 8:52 AM on August 4, 2016 [14 favorites]


Meanwhile, as a tale of two campaigns:

Hillary Clinton's latest attack ad on Donald Trump

Donald Trump latest "attack ad" on Hillary Clinton

I seriously believe that Trump has hired some 12-year-old Redditors to do his campaign work.
posted by argybarg at 8:54 AM on August 4, 2016 [24 favorites]


Meanwhile Bezos, Gates and Zuckerman signal their support for Hillary

Bezos' ownership does make me look sideways at WaPo stories. Although I guess I never think too much about who owns other media outlets.
posted by My Dad at 8:55 AM on August 4, 2016


And I don't understand what's behind it.

Reaction against increasing global complexity?
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:55 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


it has the same structure as hounding obama over his birth certificate.

It's not quite the same, though there are superficial resemblances. The immigration system is the bit of the US government to which born-in-the-USA citizens (or, if you like, Springsteen-Americans) are least exposed and know the least about. This is perpetuated by Hollywood Immigration Law (the green card marriage, etc.) but also by a political conversation that's light on detail. I'm sure a few actual immigrants raised eyebrows at "fly back every few months" which sounds more like a visitor visa (though not VWP, which Slovenia only joined in 1997) but seems plausible to non-immigrants.
posted by holgate at 8:56 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


Donald Trump latest "attack ad" on Hillary Clinton


That ad is dumb but I kind of love the idea of Hilary as Ms. Pac Man because she too is superior to her husband who came first.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:58 AM on August 4, 2016 [45 favorites]


Hey conspiracy lovers! Paul Manafort says he will "support Ryan for Speaker, and after next week as candidate for President."

obviously just a gaffe
OR IS IT
DUN DUN DUN
posted by murphy slaw at 8:58 AM on August 4, 2016 [7 favorites]


I think there's gonna be a lot of Republican women who pull the lever for Hillary this year who may never say so to a pollster, or their husband, or their friends.

I was worried about a Shy Trump Factor earlier in the year (and I'll probably worry about it again, because that's what I do), but a Shy Hillary Factor now looks plausible. Which means, of course, that a higher vote share for HRC than the polls predicted means that the election will have been rigged. *sigh*

(Shy Tory Factor, for those of you unfamiliar with that term.)
posted by maudlin at 8:58 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


Wow Pac-Man memes and 30,000 emails missing. When are they going to start running Vince Foster murder conspiracy ads?

Heck of a job there Trumpie.
posted by vuron at 8:59 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


Reaction against increasing global complexity?

Well, there certainly seems to be a correlation between this brand of conservatism, and a preference/need/desire for simple, unambiguous narratives.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:00 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


via Peter Staley: Since the day Hillary Clinton made her "AIDS gaffe" at Nancy Reagan's funeral, I've put all the resulting emails in an Outlook folder as a coalition of 90+ AIDS advocates/groups launched our "lemons into lemonade" campaign. That folder now has 2,721 emails in it. Our efforts with Hillary's transition team will easily add another 1,000. I love this work.

Awesome!

Georgia-based HIV/AIDS activist Daniel Driffin spoke at the DNC last month, a direct result of Mr. Staley's letter and meeting with Clinton. Transcript. Video.

That was the first time in 16 years that HIV/AIDS was addressed at a convention, since Jesse Milan Jr., spoke at the 2000 convention in Los Angeles. There have been no openly HIV-positive speakers since then.

Even though his message was important, the speech wasn't a barn-burner and didn't make many headlines. But his presence at the podium was significant and is hopefully a sign that Clinton's sticking to the promises she made this May to activists.
posted by zarq at 9:01 AM on August 4, 2016 [13 favorites]


It annoys me that that ad gets the scoring in Pac-Man wrong. Her score is continuously going up, not just when she eats the e-mails.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:01 AM on August 4, 2016 [20 favorites]


Her score is continuously going up, not just when she eats the e-mails.

I noticed that, too. It's a little thing, but it underscores just how half-assed and phoned-in the ad is.

Man, someone out there is in the planning stages of an epic documentary about the clusterfuck that was 2016. I can't wait to watch it.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:03 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


it's probably overstating the case to call this an "ad". nobody is going to spend any money to get this on the air.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:04 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


It annoys me that that ad gets the scoring in Pac-Man wrong.

Oh, man, now Trump's alienating vintage arcade game pedants, too? Surely this...
posted by dersins at 9:04 AM on August 4, 2016 [39 favorites]


I wish everyone would vote in all Municipal, Township, County and School Board elections because as a wiser woman than I once said 'there's a vast right wing conspiracy out there' .
I work with attorneys that do local government work and the dregs of the Tea Party are out there FOIA'ing every document they can get to get info they can use to tear the system down and running people for office who deliberately throw a wrench in to the works. This is especially happening with community college boards.
I can't comment about this much because it's my employment, but damn I wish people would take more interest in the community colleges. The media does not have a clue and I think maybe are afraid of repercussions because dealing with these people can make you feel like they've released hellhounds on you.
posted by readery at 9:05 AM on August 4, 2016 [31 favorites]


I kind of love the idea of Hilary as Ms. Pac Man because she too is superior to her husband who came first.

Not to mention that Ms. Pac Man is one of the few video games many women took a shine to.

Also, that ad sucks ass. It would be embarrassing as an ad for a state Senate campaign.
posted by argybarg at 9:05 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


Wait, was the Pac-Man ad actually made by the Trump campaign? That seems really doubtful to me.
posted by roll truck roll at 9:06 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


And yes, it's not as much an ad as an attempt at a viral video. Still sucks.
posted by argybarg at 9:07 AM on August 4, 2016


You’re Fired! - "Trump’s understanding of all failure — failure to grow, to keep one’s plane aloft in anti-aircraft fire, to be rich — may well be rooted in a deep, and perhaps familial, belief that exploiting the economic and social shame of others is a necessary ingredient of success. "

Pundits Lament Loss of a Reasonable, Competent GOP That Never Was - "This is perhaps the ethic David Brooks wanted his party to aspire to, but certainly not at all what it achieved. “Graciousness” is not a word that comes to mind in describing a party that has worked for decades, long before the arrival of Trump, to cut resources for the poor and people of color. “Humility” is not a word one would use to describe eight years of invasions, bombing and “with us or against us” chest-pounding."

More at OMNIVORE
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:07 AM on August 4, 2016 [8 favorites]


Donald Trump trolls Hillary Clinton's email scandal with a bizarre "Pac-Mac" parody video

He posted it to his timeline. Hard to say who made it.
posted by argybarg at 9:08 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


Deadspin.com: Donald Trump Is A Frightened Coward And I Bet $100,000 He Won't Fight Me

tl;dr - examination of his personal history reveals an attention-seeking bully who hides and/or folds under sufficient pressure.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:09 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


Certainly a better 80s video game to represent the hero myths of Trump would be Dragon's Lair

Trump the Daring braving the foul Wizard Obama's castle in order to rescue Princess Melania (or Ivanka if you want to brave his subconscious). On his way he is beset by Muslims and Mexicans and PC Liberals and when he gets to the center of the dungeon he is faced with the most horrible foe of all the dreaded Dragon Clintonia who is guarding the fair maiden while also sitting on a vast hoard of deleted emails.

Of course due to his quick wits and some clever swordsplay (forgive me if I don't remember the entire plot-line) he slays the dragon and rescues the princess and he Makes America Great Again.

10/10 would play again!

You too can put yourself in the action of Trump the Daring - All for the low - low price of a $100 donation.

PS- Because Trump couldn't stand to lose he's make the Trump the character sprite win no matter what you did with the controller because he's that awesome. Yeah it turns the game into a visual novel but quit complaining fanboy! MAGA!
posted by vuron at 9:11 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


Polls Show the Trump-Era GOP Is Dangerously Fractured (cw: The Weekly Standard). Summary: post-convention polls by CBS, CNN, and Fox all show that the Dems are far more united around their candidate, and the issues, than the GOP.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:13 AM on August 4, 2016 [6 favorites]


That ad is dumb but I kind of love the idea of Hilary as Ms. Pac Man because she too is superior to her husband who came first.

I expect the Clinton campaign to one-up this with a fully playable Missile Command browser ad highlighting Trump's dumb statements about nukes
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:14 AM on August 4, 2016 [28 favorites]


And I don't understand what's behind it.

Reaction against increasing global complexity?


There are ways to react to change that don't involve unrepentant assholery.

The assholery might be the pre-existing condition.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:15 AM on August 4, 2016 [3 favorites]


If we're going to build a video game around the Trump campaign I think it would have to be "Violence Fight," especially for its title screen:

‘Story:
In the early part of 1950’s in USA, a game called “Violence Fight” was in vogue among Mafia, reckless drivers and general businessmen.
The “Violence Fight” was the game to struggle for “No.1 Quarreler” with fighters who were gathered from all parts of the USA speaking boastingly of their strength.
And of course a lot of winning money as well as the honor were given to the “winner”.
Here in a downtown in L.A., a young fighter “Bat” and his manager “Blinks” seek for the winning money eagerly.
As a matter of fact, can Bad take the No.1 place of the USA?’

posted by argybarg at 9:16 AM on August 4, 2016 [8 favorites]


a fully playable Missile Command browser ad highlighting Trump's dumb statements about nukes

Put Trump's head up at the top of the screen, spitting nukes at you out of his mouth in between lip-synced audio clips of dumb/crazy stuff he's said.
posted by EarBucket at 9:18 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


neonrev: A well played hand here spells death for the organized right

Except the organized right is more organized and better funded than the organized left. As long as the Koch Bros are alive and Americans for Prosperity, American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) and the State Policy Network (SPN) all stay organized, the left still has a significant fight in the years ahead, especially with eight similar organizations trying to focus and coordinate the left.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:22 AM on August 4, 2016 [12 favorites]


Tangentially, here's a charmingly crappy little Flash shooter game where you play as Trump, bullshitting your way through various opponents including Clinton, Mexico, ISIS, the Constitution, planet Earth, and (ultimately) God himself.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:22 AM on August 4, 2016


Hillary up by 6 in Florida.
posted by argybarg at 9:24 AM on August 4, 2016 [38 favorites]


Filthy light thief, I've been sharing that article with all the Bernie supporters on my Facebook page and urging them to stay involved - and get more involved in local politics - even though they're not necessarily psyched about Hillary.
posted by infinitywaltz at 9:27 AM on August 4, 2016


The “Violence Fight” was the game to struggle for “No.1 Quarreler” with fighters who were gathered from all parts of the USA speaking boastingly of their strength.

Three days! Three acres! Three THOUSAND men!
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:28 AM on August 4, 2016 [6 favorites]


Shouldn't the ghosts in that Ms. Pac-Man ad be wearing white sheets? Can they legally use Pac-Man sounds and music?

BTW I believe Kay Fabe is one of Trump's surrogates.
posted by guiseroom at 9:28 AM on August 4, 2016 [6 favorites]


What makes me uncomfortable about the Melania discussion is a lot of people here seem to be taking the line dangerously close to "leave her alone, she's so pretty and helpless". She's a grown woman who put herself in this discussion.
posted by bongo_x at 9:29 AM on August 4, 2016 [28 favorites]


The 538 Polls Only and Polls Plus are a beautiful sight to behold right now. I'm not getting complacent--just about to head over to hrc.com and order some merch, actually--but faith in humanity slowly being restored.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:29 AM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


Put Trump's head up at the top of the screen, spitting nukes at you out of his mouth in between lip-synced audio clips of dumb/crazy stuff he's said.

I could see a remake of the obscure Japanese NES shmup Samurai Zombie Nation, which casts the player as a giant orange floating head that vomits fireballs at flying enemies. One of the end bosses is the Statue of Liberty turned into a gorgon with snakes in her hair. It's ripe for recontextualizing.
posted by Strange Interlude at 9:30 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


It annoys me that that ad gets the scoring in Pac-Man wrong. Her score is continuously going up, not just when she eats the e-mails.

Also, Hillary doesn't die when the FBI catches her. Wouldn't she need to eat a power pill consisting of political influence and then gobble up the FBI ghosts sending them back to HQ?
posted by Talez at 9:30 AM on August 4, 2016 [6 favorites]


"Can they legally use Pac-Man sounds and music?"

I'm assuming if Namco/Midway ever showed up with a team of lawyers the Trump campaign would say, "We didn't make that! We just re-posted someone else's work, go find them, it wasn't us. Please, take the lifeless corpse of an intern with you when you go. We have more than we need. No, to your left, through the door marked 'Scapegoat Storage'."
posted by komara at 9:31 AM on August 4, 2016 [11 favorites]


Please, take the lifeless corpse of an intern with you when you go. We have more than we need. No, to your left, through the door marked 'Scapegoat Storage'."

MEREDITH? BibleThump
posted by Talez at 9:32 AM on August 4, 2016 [7 favorites]


ARGHHHH. In 1996, I sat in the living room of my sister's house at Thanksgiving and watched my grown mother burst into tears when I matter-of-factly admitted to voting for Bill Clinton in the recent election.

Do not underestimate some Republicans' hatred for the Clintons. That they are willing to vote for their own/the country's complete spin-out in the form of Trump just for spite.

Because that will be happening with most of my extended family on Nov. 4th. Unfortunately. Trump would have to either 1) implode with hate into little bits or 2) take himself off of the ballot (And they would likely still write him in.)

Anyone want to hang out this Thanksgiving?
posted by jeanmari at 9:34 AM on August 4, 2016 [16 favorites]


A tangent that may amuse:

I've got some down time at work, so I was cleaning out a long-neglected corner of the desk I'm at; one which was previously used by a whole shit-ton of people. There's been a file box sitting in the corner that was a catch-all for "we'll have to go through this eventually". Today I tackled it, and found a small collection of things that I presume were personal possessions of someone who was here about five years ago - mostly casino and gambling-related tie-ins (used scratch cards, loyalty cards for online poker games, etc.). And among those items was - a chip from Trump's Taj Mahal Casino.

I brought it in to one of my superiors, asking "would you like a moment to vent your frustration upon something?" And when I showed it to him, when he saw the name he physically recoiled like he was Dracula and I was holding garlic. But then he asked to borrow it - and he snuck into the office of someone with whom he's been having a lively rivalry lately, and he taped it to her screen "to see how long it will take her to notice". He ran out of her office when he was done, giggling.

So the Trump Brand is offering a bunch of office workers a moment of levity today. Although probably not in the way that Trump would hope.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:34 AM on August 4, 2016 [45 favorites]


What makes me uncomfortable about the Melania discussion is a lot of people here seem to be taking the line dangerously close to "leave her alone, she's so pretty and helpless".

The line I am taking is "I don't give a shit what someone's immigration status was 20 years ago."

My position on this is pretty goddam consistent no matter who we're talking about, and has fuck-all to do with gender, attractiveness, or even connection to Donald Trump.
posted by dersins at 9:34 AM on August 4, 2016 [18 favorites]


Yeah, Trump is done.

I'd really like Clinton to rack up 400+ EVs but it seems way too much to hope for. I think the best case scenario for Clinton is to somehow get North Carolina and Georgia to flip plus all of the current battleground states which would get her to 363 (assuming nothing weird like a split of Nebraska).

If you look at the pundit maps on 270towin just about every one of them is pretty much already indicating that Clinton has a solid 255-280 EVs more or less locked in which I think is pretty much confirmed by various state polls.

The task now is not to let up but to make this a brutal loss for Republicans that actually results in some deep soul searching. I don't think we'll see anything remotely close to the big massive blowouts that were common in the past (think 1980 and 1984) anymore the country is just too divided.
posted by vuron at 9:36 AM on August 4, 2016 [6 favorites]


Buzzfeed reports on official RNC plans for Latinx outreach that have fizzled with trump's mismanagement of his campaign:

Ileana Garcia is the type of true believer that campaigns love. The telegenic former radio personality created Latinas for Trump. She defends Donald Trump on Spanish-language networks, sets up events for like-minded women, and withstands harsh criticism on Facebook, where she has received death threats for her support of the Republican nominee, who many Latinos strongly dislike. ... A source with knowledge of Garcia’s communication with the campaign said her efforts were rebuffed, culminating in a tense exchange with her and a top Florida campaign official. (Garcia and the Trump campaign declined to comment for this story.) “Do whatever the fuck you want,” the official said to Garcia, according to the source. “I don’t know what I’m going to do with you, anyway.”

Several efforts to reach out to right leaning Hispanic interest groups have been postponed indefinitely. This could permanently hobble RNC efforts to build votes among Lainx voters,

"'Anything that is an RNC effort unfortunately is not going to matter for the Trump campaign, considering that he has horrible poll numbers with Hispanics,' said Izzy Santa, the RNC’s former Hispanic media director. 'There’s no infrastructure and no plan because the Trump camp doesn’t want to take diverse voters into account.'"

I think that, even despite the Koch bro.s backing up the downticket, trump's campaign is going to leave a lasting mark on the republican party's ability to pivot towards a country that is getting increasingly diverse. I do believe that Republican intransigence on denouncing his hateful rhetoric has severely hobbled their ability to do outreach to minority populations for a generation.
posted by codacorolla at 9:36 AM on August 4, 2016 [21 favorites]


Well, yeah, I guess, Bongo_x, in that she married Trump. But she couldn't have predicted this, surely, because who knew then he was going to run for president? I haven't been paying any attention to him until lately, but I've known of his existence since he was a national joke in the 80s, and if anyone had suggested he'd run for president ever, I'd've laaaaaughed and laughed. Also, famously, nobody can control or advise him, and everyone close to him seems to be under a nod-n-smile mandate no matter what ridiculous nonsense he gets up to. It's completely possible to pity Melania without thinking of her as without agency. She, like most of the republican party, is getting dragged along in his headlong rush to ignominy.
posted by Don Pepino at 9:37 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


Yeah, Trump is done.

3 months is a very long time.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 9:38 AM on August 4, 2016 [56 favorites]


3 months is a very long time. But we have one powerful ally in our desire to keep Donald Trump floundering: Donald Trump.
posted by argybarg at 9:39 AM on August 4, 2016 [36 favorites]


Amy Gannett: How Evangelicals are Losing an Entire Generation:
I kept waiting for him to trail off, but he didn’t. In fact, he somehow, mysteriously to me, gained momentum and endorsements. Despite his racial generalizations and telling women they look good on their knees, he only grew in popularity. I moved from disappointed to shocked to disgusted as he garnered the approval of Republican and Evangelical leaders.

Over the last several months, I have lost respect for the Republican party, and I honestly thought that would be the biggest tragedy of this election. But the disappointing truth is this: I’m losing faith in Evangelicals.

And this is frightening. I am an Evangelical. I hold to Evangelical theology. I have attended not one, but two Evangelical schools. But I fear that we’re going to lose an entire generation because of the actions, words, and teachings of some Evangelicals.
Another addition to the growing genre of Evangelical anti-Trump voters.
posted by palindromic at 9:40 AM on August 4, 2016 [15 favorites]


Dear Hillary,

Please step up your car magnet game. All of these are terrible, yet I do not want to stick shit to my car permanently.

Yours,
Soren Lorensen
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:40 AM on August 4, 2016 [17 favorites]



Dear Hillary,

Please step up your car magnate game.


I see what you did there.
posted by Mayor West at 9:41 AM on August 4, 2016 [3 favorites]


And this is frightening. I am an Evangelical. I hold to Evangelical theology. I have attended not one, but two Evangelical schools. But I fear that we’re going to lose an entire generation because of the actions, words, and teachings of some Evangelicals.

From your mouth to god's ear times forty.

Love,
Someone raised in a fundamentalist (oops, excuse me, evangelical) house
posted by winna at 9:43 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


You know who could have given Hillary some tips on how to NOT use car magnets? (Please note byline. Daniel Dale is this generation's Job.)
posted by maudlin at 9:44 AM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


I see what you did there.

Dammit.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:44 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


I know it's typical American left behavior to snatch crushing hopelessness out of a seeming victory, but assuming Assange has more bombs to throw as the spoiler for trump, wouldn't it make sense to do that... presently? I think each week (maybe even day) that trump has to dig his hole deeper is a day where some October Surprise type messaging has less effect on the electorate.
posted by codacorolla at 9:45 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


she married Trump. But she couldn't have predicted this, surely, because who knew then he was going to run for president?

I feel sorry for her for marrying Trump, we keep laughing at the fact that this surely wasn't what she signed up for. But you dance with the devil...

She made her immigration story the biggest part of her convention speech, and is one of the main things she's spoken about, condemning other immigrants for doing it wrong by implication.
posted by bongo_x at 9:45 AM on August 4, 2016 [12 favorites]


If there's a sticker you like, you could put it on a cheap magnet from Michaels or Joanns. #Lifehack
posted by drezdn at 9:46 AM on August 4, 2016 [14 favorites]


Dear Hillary,

Please step up your car magnet game. All of these are terrible, yet I do not want to stick shit to my car permanently.

Yours,
Soren Lorensen


Also keychains, for I am an eeeeeevil feeeeeemale with a nice purse that I don't want to stick buttons in. Please and thank you.
posted by sunset in snow country at 9:46 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


I know it's typical American left behavior to snatch crushing hopelessness out of a seeming victory, but assuming Assange has more bombs to throw as the spoiler for trump, wouldn't it make sense to do that... presently?

I'm sure Assange the Rapist is trying to find something more to use to defend Trump the Rapist, given that those types seem to stick together.
posted by qcubed at 9:46 AM on August 4, 2016 [7 favorites]


...assuming Assange has more bombs to throw as the spoiler for trump

Big assumption.
posted by argybarg at 9:48 AM on August 4, 2016


"She made her immigration story the biggest part of her convention speech, and is one of the main things she's spoken about"
Yep, that's true, but if there was a failure to factcheck her statement that she did it all legally, sorry, but that's on Meredith.
posted by Don Pepino at 9:48 AM on August 4, 2016 [8 favorites]


Melania may divorce Trump some day and I hope she gets half the money he SAYS he has.
posted by readery at 9:49 AM on August 4, 2016 [24 favorites]


What fascinates me most about Melania is the quality of her regard; it's the thousand yard stare of someone who has seen some shit. Or maybe it's her stillness, like she's hoping to escape unnoticed or fears giving the cameras any expression that might reveal her inner thoughts or be misinterpreted. But the stress of waiting for other shoes to drop--immigration issue, Donald's crazy pants behavior, whatever we can't yet imagine--would explain a lot. I picture her steeling herself for whatever he says upon arriving home after a day on the campaign trail and my heart goes out to her.
posted by carmicha at 9:50 AM on August 4, 2016 [14 favorites]


but assuming Assange has more bombs to throw as the spoiler for trump, wouldn't it make sense to do that... presently?

This whole thing with Assange reminds me of the Gotcha! joke.
posted by PlusDistance at 9:51 AM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


now i'm imagining ryan in a sitcom farce

belated: the show would be called That's So Ryan!
posted by murphy slaw at 9:51 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


3 months is a very long time.
Plenty of time for a smart Democratic Party to turn a "Republican Presidential Campaign Disaster" into a "Total Republican Party Disaster". Also for a smart Libertarian Party to build itself beyond the Presidential candidate. Of course, assuming "smart" of either entity is probably too much to ask. Only the Republicans have real smarts (Evil Genius, yes, but did Lex Luthor ever let Bizzaro become his standard bearer?)
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:52 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm sure Melania is handcuffed to a prenup, although if he misrepresented his assets to her ... Well, I don't know about that either. I don't doubt she bet with herself that she could outlive him before he traded her in for a younger model, and it must have looked like a decent bet at the time. I highly doubt she made this particular bed for herself.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:54 AM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


If you go on TV to talk about how you Did Immigration Right, it's fair to point out that you apparently didn't.
posted by EarBucket at 9:57 AM on August 4, 2016 [23 favorites]




His prenup with Marla Maples basically said that if the marriage lasted under 5 years, she would only get a couple of million dollars. If it lasted over five years, she would have received a more meaningful percentage. So he divorced her a few months shy of 5 years. I'm guessing he has some sort of similar built-in end date with Melania.
posted by Mchelly at 10:01 AM on August 4, 2016 [16 favorites]


How long have they been married?
posted by drezdn at 10:02 AM on August 4, 2016


Former Republican Sen. Gordon Humphrey tells NBC News that he will vote for Hillary Clinton if that's what it takes to prevent his own party's nominee, Donald Trump, from winning the White House.

"I am ever more confirmed in my belief that Trump is a sociopath, without a conscience or feelings of guilt, shame or remorse. And he is pathologically insecure, recklessly attacking anyone who does not confirm him as the best there is," Humphrey said in an email to NBC News.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:04 AM on August 4, 2016 [17 favorites]


I think 10-11 years at this point, but she definitely signed a prenup.
posted by Mchelly at 10:05 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm not a fan of the idea of the Clinton campaign leaning on the issue of Melania Trump's immigration status.

I mean, logically speaking it is definitely possible to make an argument that Trump's stance on immigration is hypocritical without impugning Melania or other undocumented/incompletely documented immigrants.

But given the way political discourse works in this country, I don't think the soundbites will come across that way. The nature of televised news and social media is such that the nuances of this argument will be lost, and it'll end up looking petty and gross.

Besides, accusing your opponent of hypocrisy is basically a character attack, not a substantive criticism of policy. Trump makes his bad character evident all on his own; his unending stream of outrageous statements speak for themselves. I'd rather see the Democrats take the high ground and focus their attacks on concrete ways that a Trump presidency would make the country worse.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 10:07 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


There's no chance the Clinton campaign will make Melania or her immigration status the focus of any part of their campaign.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:08 AM on August 4, 2016 [47 favorites]


jeanmari: Anyone want to hang out this Thanksgiving?

It looks like my really nice, kind, loving, supportive, Republican in-laws are on Team Hilary, and they like cooking. I'm not sure if they'll be around here come Thanksgiving or visiting other family members elsewhere. Either way, join us! We'll have room for a few more.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:09 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


the Clinton campaign is not using it. Someone brought it up in this thread and there was an inexplicably massive pushback.
posted by zutalors! at 10:09 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I'm not expecting Clinton to actually use it.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 10:10 AM on August 4, 2016


Based on his past patterns, Assange has already launched his most powerful stuff and now he's bullshitting about having more to keep his name in the news.
posted by humanfont at 10:14 AM on August 4, 2016 [6 favorites]


‘Oh Good God’: Megyn Kelly Flips Out Over Trump Relitigating So Many Controversies

"This is as silly as going back to the same Pokestop over and over again expecting it to be something different."
posted by zachlipton at 10:14 AM on August 4, 2016 [10 favorites]


[Couple comments deleted; sorry, we ask folks not to bring other people's profile page info (like location) over to the main part of the site. More info here.]
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:23 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


I can't attest to the car magnets, but I honestly believe the Clinton campaign's graphic design game is on point -- really top-notch. The 10-pack of signs from the convention floor is really good.
posted by argybarg at 10:23 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


"This is as silly as going back to the same Pokestop over and over again expecting it to be something different."
The next BIG THING (for three weeks): TRUMPEMON GO!
I was considering calling it "POKE-TRUMP", but poking Trump will never lose its appeal.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:26 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


Someone brought it up in this thread and there was an inexplicably massive pushback.

I think the pushback has been explicated pretty thoroughly.
posted by biogeo at 10:28 AM on August 4, 2016 [9 favorites]


I think that for understandable reasons, folks are hypervigilant about potentially anti-immigrant discourses right now.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:36 AM on August 4, 2016 [9 favorites]


Brutal anti-McCain ad.
posted by glhaynes at 10:37 AM on August 4, 2016 [28 favorites]


Yeah, Trump is done.

As I see it, once Trump became the nominee, we started playing Russian roulette. The gun is big and has many, many chambers but many of them are loaded. We pull the trigger in November and every time something happens that hurts Trump or helps Hillary, we take another bullet out of the gun.

I don't know about you, but I'm going to do everything I can to take every last bullet out of that gun. I won't stop until the PEC and Nate Silver both agree that Trump has ZERO change of getting even one electoral vote. To me, that's what an "unloaded gun" is in this scenario. It won't be anywhere close to that, but I'm going to do what I can force it closer and I hope everyone does the same.

My latest thing is that every time someone on Facebook posts some stupid, hateful thing in support of Trump, I'm donating $5 to the Clinton campaign and posting proof of that donation as a comment in that post.
posted by VTX at 10:42 AM on August 4, 2016 [80 favorites]


What fascinates me most about Melania is the quality of her regard; it's the thousand yard stare of someone who has seen some shit. Or maybe it's her stillness, like she's hoping to escape unnoticed or fears giving the cameras any expression that might reveal her inner thoughts or be misinterpreted.

Or she may just not be good at presenting herself in the public eye. Look: Melania Trump is a smart person, period. You have to give her credit, and also acknowledge her agency. She knows what she's doing, and she's in control of her own life. And therefore she bears responsibility for the incredible, destructive mess of the Trump campaign.

It's like Chris Christie: he wasn't signalling for help when he stood blankfaced behind Trump. That's his normal facial expression.

I mean, come on.
posted by My Dad at 10:43 AM on August 4, 2016 [12 favorites]


[A few comments deleted; if you think a big derail was pointless before, don't reopen it so people feel compelled to defend why they were talking about it in the first place.]
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:43 AM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


@My Dad, who quoted me on Melania's affect. It was other posters who made disparaging comments about her intelligence and agency, not me. For the record.
posted by carmicha at 10:47 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


If you have to listen to Trump speaking regularly it's just good survival instincts to learn to tune him out.
posted by wabbittwax at 10:47 AM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


Look: Melania Trump is a smart person, period.

If true, the conclusions are far sadder than if she's not. So it's understandable people don't want to believe it. It's the same reason people want to think that Trump's various awful statements are a strategy, or that it's all some sort of false flag effort. The alternative, that the only narrative is that he's actually this awful and people like him for just that, is a much more depressing window into the world.

Whether she's dumb or complicit, I don't see how either maligns her agency. She's chosen her lot in life.
posted by phearlez at 10:50 AM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


intelligence and wisdom are not the same thing
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:51 AM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


Trump Proves Republican Obama Hate Was Never About Obama’s Ideas
This week, largely drowned out on the stump by his succession of own goals, Donald Trump returned to a theme he has mentioned before in the campaign — his infrastructure plan, which would amount to either half a trillion dollars or a trillion dollars, depending on what day it is. Among the majority of Republicans who support Trump, this spending plan has provoked not a whimper of complaint. Among the minority who don’t like Trump, the irony is bitter. “If you ignore the rhetorical flourishes and stick to what he is actually advocating and how he proposes to pay for it you can call it by another name: stimulus,” writes anti-Trump conservative Jonathan Tobin. “So the question for Trump acolytes who now pose as the arbiters of what it means to be a conservative, what is it about Trump’s stimulus that [makes] it more acceptable to Republican voters than Obama’s?”
posted by zachlipton at 10:54 AM on August 4, 2016 [45 favorites]


Yeah, Trump is done.

Which still may or may not mean a lot about the final outcome of the election.

If the GOP figures out a loophole to jettison Trump (and you know they're scrambling to figure that out even as we type), remember that Clinton still has big unfavorables which, while currently insignificant against Trump's catastrophic performance, might come into play against a normal candidate. The GOP could regain a lot of ground with relieved conservatives, moderates, and former Sanders supporters with a more sympathetic replacement candidate -- a lot of Republicans would look much more appealing after the shock of Trump's performance. (Says the Democrat old enough to know the old mantra of "The Democratic Party, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.")
posted by aught at 10:54 AM on August 4, 2016 [6 favorites]


Man, y'all can we puh-lease cool it with anything Melania related? It's just veering way too much into tabloid speculationism (and other gross sexist-ish and weirdly prejudiced things) I would really like to not see in this thread.

Just ... please think before you post yeah?
posted by Tevin at 10:55 AM on August 4, 2016 [16 favorites]


[Another couple comments deleted. The focus on Melania is already a little weird, let's not go to why she has an accent.]
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:56 AM on August 4, 2016 [11 favorites]


Well, yeah, I guess, Bongo_x, in that she married Trump. But she couldn't have predicted this, surely, because who knew then he was going to run for president?

For the record, Melania was dating Trump in 2000 when Trump was running for President under the Reform Party. They were married in 2005.
posted by JackFlash at 10:56 AM on August 4, 2016 [12 favorites]




Oh good Clint's on the case this will heal America
posted by angrycat at 10:58 AM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


Brief note about accents: if you move to a new country and learn a new language, or even a different dialect of your native language, you are almost certainly going to have an "accent" in this new place if you move there from the age of 16 on. (Some say 20 is the cutoff, but anecdotal evidence in my extended families runs counter to that.)

Adults who move to new countries are ALWAYS going to have an "accent". It's not that unusual.
posted by maudlin at 11:02 AM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


If "xenophobic misogynistic cryptofascist race-baiting toupeed canned ham" didn't put 40% of the country off of him already, I don't think "hypocrite" is going to be the magic bullet you're hoping for.

I briefly got into it on Facebook with someone who said he was a Trump supporter; when challenged on why he (the guy on facebook) holds a xenophobic and sexist outlook, he took strong offense at the suggestion, and argued that no, he did NOT hold such opinions, and in fact he found them abhorrent in Trump as well. The sole reason he was supporting Trump, he said, was because of the Republican Party's platform position on Abortion, and that was all.

A large part of the Trump support base are thundering jerks, yeah. But some people have just one pet issue they support, and expect the presidential candidate to do everything.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:08 AM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


EmpressCallipygos, that guy sounds like a prime candidate for this article.

If he doesn't find anything in there compelling, it's a good sign he doesn't find Trump's other views quiiiite as abhorrent as he's leading you to believe.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:12 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


This is apropos of nothing, but I'm pretty sure my Facebook friends are tired of my political posts, so I'll get this off my chest here:

Paul Ryan is a spineless, amoral jelly-man with tiny hands, and history will not look upon him favorably. Eat a basket of assholes, Paul Ryan.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 11:13 AM on August 4, 2016 [35 favorites]


I definitely knew people who voted for Bush II because of the Republican platform against abortion. If you brought up ANYTHING else they would just shrug and say they were really against abortion. They just didn't care about anything else.
posted by zutalors! at 11:14 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


The sole reason he was supporting Trump, he said, was because of the Republican Party's platform position on Abortion, and that was all.

I don't think though that we can keep letting "one issue" voters get away with ignoring/dismissing all of the other problems with the candidate/platform.

EVEN if one believes that abortion is murder, to support a racist misogynistic cryptofacist is valuing the lives of a few unborn children more than the lives of immigrants, POC, women, and LGBT folks. Some of whom are actually dying already (and more will in the future) because of the policies that Trump and the Republicans support.
posted by sparklemotion at 11:15 AM on August 4, 2016 [11 favorites]


President Obama, today, on his birthday, in Glamour magazine:
Michelle and I have raised our daughters to speak up when they see a double standard or feel unfairly judged based on their gender or race—or when they notice that happening to someone else. It’s important for them to see role models out in the world who climb to the highest levels of whatever field they choose.

And yes, it’s important that their dad is a feminist, because now that’s what they expect of all men.
posted by AceRock at 11:15 AM on August 4, 2016 [56 favorites]


Interesting minor aside - some NH GOP governor candidates are getting a bit nervous over accepting the Kosh dosh, because they say it would sign them up to fight to repeal Obamacare and associated Medicaid expansion without providing an alternative.
posted by Devonian at 11:15 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


I have been shocked over the past year, frankly, to learn just how much of that feeling is out there. And I don't understand what's behind it.

They thing to read is Stealth Democracy and the takeaway is that by and large Americans don't actually like democracy very much.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:16 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


The biggest Trump issue has yet to detonate - the tax returns. I think Clinton has yet to really ramp up on this because it's going to be the October focus. The man is a fraud - he's not a billionaire, and not even close. I don't know whether something will leak or they'll prove it by other means, but that's what's really going to be the nail in his coffin - the one thing that will make his little army of xenophobic racist sexist haterade-guzzling white dudes (whether the NASACR type or the middle manager boat shoe type or the keyboard warrior type) feel like THEY got swindled. "This guy lied to you; he thinks you're dumb; he thinks you can't tell the difference between fake rich and real rich."
posted by sallybrown at 11:17 AM on August 4, 2016 [14 favorites]


Abortion is the one issue that Republicans have an advantage over Democrats with when it comes to Christianity. Pretty much ever other issue in the gospels (help the poor, forgive, turn the other cheek, blessed are the peacemankers, etc.) is owned by the Democrats.

If I were a Democrat running for President, I would say that I am absolutely pro-life. I would court the fuck out of the Christian voters by focusing on my across-the-board Christian values (see above). I would not sign any legislation that was in direct contrast to the Constitution or Supreme Court decisions. I would express a preference that Roe v. Wade be overturned. Then I would appoint nothing but liberal justices and act disappointed every time they voted to protect abortion rights.
posted by flarbuse at 11:17 AM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


Pretty much ever other issue in the gospels (help the poor, forgive, turn the other cheek, blessed are the peacemankers, etc.) is owned by the Democrats.

...have you seen American Christianity?
posted by escape from the potato planet at 11:20 AM on August 4, 2016 [17 favorites]


Also as of around 10:30 biscotti is a US citizen and registered to vote. Suck it, motherfucker. And choke on the likely votes from the other fifty something people taking the oath from Iraq and Iran and Yemen and the DR and Mexico and Burma and Tanzania and fucktons of other nations. I would bet you could count the Trump voters with one hand. One mutilated hand.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:22 AM on August 4, 2016 [98 favorites]


So, shoppers: a better selection of Hillary car magnets is here. Cafe press has a decent selection of keychains too. Don't get me wrong, I have bought from HRC's store but the selection is more limited and it takes a really ridiculous amount of time for them to mail anything.

Also, Reuters: In slap at Trump, some wealthy Republicans campaign for Clinton.
posted by bearwife at 11:22 AM on August 4, 2016 [3 favorites]


hey, congrats to biscotti!
posted by LobsterMitten at 11:23 AM on August 4, 2016 [29 favorites]


You would not run for president as a Democrat while calling for the overturning of Roe, because people like me value a woman's right to choose too much to let that happen.
posted by rikschell at 11:23 AM on August 4, 2016 [7 favorites]


I got her a big Uncle Sam hat that says CITIZEN in glitter, LIKE YOU NEED TO VOTE, and a cake with Abe Lincoln riding a grizzly bear. AMERICA!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:24 AM on August 4, 2016 [52 favorites]


In other news, a creepy clown with black balloons is wandering around Green Bay, WI.

"This person is not breaking the law," said Captain Kevin Warych of the Green Bay Police Department. "He can walk in a clown costume anywhere he wants."

(Asked if this was an effort to rally Trump voters in Wisconsin, Hope Hicks, the campaign's spokesperson, did not respond.)
posted by octobersurprise at 11:25 AM on August 4, 2016 [5 favorites]


sallybrown, at this point I don't think even that would sway his supporters. This is tribal now, this is about hating the other and Showing Them and feeling aggrieved and acting out. The billionaire part of it just got the ball rolling. Now it's a cult.
posted by PlusDistance at 11:25 AM on August 4, 2016 [4 favorites]


Also as of around 10:30 biscotti is a US citizen and registered to vote. Suck it, motherfucker. And choke on the likely votes from the other fifty something people taking the oath from Iraq and Iran and Yemen and the DR and Mexico and Burma and Tanzania and fucktons of other nations. I would bet you could count the Trump voters with one hand. One mutilated hand.

Yes!! Yay! Demographics FTW!
posted by zutalors! at 11:25 AM on August 4, 2016 [8 favorites]


The sole reason he was supporting Trump, he said, was because of the Republican Party's platform position on Abortion, and that was all.

Reproductive rights are incredibly, incredibly important to me, and to try to put myself in that Trump supporter's shoes, I imagined an alternate universe where he was the pro-choice candidate. (Sorry to give you nightmares.) I still can't imagine supporting him, let alone doing it publicly and getting upset when people call me out on being a racist. I identify too strongly with the people he is scapegoating. As a Japanese American, I know what that means. "I'm not racist but I support racist policies that come bundled with my single issue" is fucking weak sauce.
posted by sunset in snow country at 11:25 AM on August 4, 2016 [24 favorites]


I definitely knew people who voted for Bush II because of the Republican platform against abortion.

And then Bush, who supported a pro-life constitutional amendment in 2000, had sky-high post-9/11 approval ratings and both houses of Congress, didn't do anything about abortion. The Republicans play pro-life voters for suckers.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:25 AM on August 4, 2016 [29 favorites]


"He can walk in a clown costume anywhere he wants."

Not bad, but I still prefer "Make America Great Again."
posted by PlusDistance at 11:27 AM on August 4, 2016 [25 favorites]


I mean... wouldn't that situation at least provide cause for a LITTLE soul searching? No, because you don't give two shits what happens to marginalized people, but you also don't want to be called racist, because it hurts your feelings! Boo hoo.
posted by sunset in snow country at 11:28 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


If I were a Democrat running for President, I would say that I am absolutely pro-life. I would court the fuck out of the Christian voters by focusing on my across-the-board Christian values (see above). I would not sign any legislation that was in direct contrast to the Constitution or Supreme Court decisions. I would express a preference that Roe v. Wade be overturned.

No, no, a million times NO. Hillary Clinton's (and Tim Kaine's, and most pro-choice elected officials') position that they are personally pro-life but believe in a woman's choice is not only in line with Christian values, but also representative of mainstream American opinion. All this idea does is perpetuate the insulting, dangerous, and repugnant myth that "pro-life" is the opposite of "pro-choice" when the truth is that the two are not mutually exclusive at all.

Roe v. Wade is the bedrock foundation for women's reproductive health, and the idea of running on overturning it to fake people out is a direct threat to both those health concerns and American politics in general.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:28 AM on August 4, 2016 [77 favorites]


Besides, even if he's only got 40 million, that's a lot more than I've got. Even if he's broke, if he's leveraged it into the lifestyle he has, that counts as rich to most people. Everyone's accepted at this point that he's lying about most stuff.
posted by rikschell at 11:28 AM on August 4, 2016


I don't think though that we can keep letting "one issue" voters get away with ignoring/dismissing all of the other problems with the candidate/platform.

Oh, that's exactly how everyone else on the thread responded to him. I am not making an excuse, I am merely depicting some of the nuance of the supporter base that I haven't previously seen addressed.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:29 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


I really wish people would stop talking about Supreme Court Justices right now - not you guys, but broadly, in the world. It's not that it's not important, it is, but every time it's talked about, Republicans hear that siren call too, and it fools people into acting like this is a normal Right vs Left election rather than a "the world may be on fire" election.

I understand the desire to not poke a sleeping bear, but it turns out the bear of GOP voters focusing on the courts never sleeps, or even gets sleepy. The right has successfully used SCOTUS as a focal point for voters with their "unelected activist judges" schtick for decades, whereas Democrats have tended to be timid about letting their ideological flag fly by pointing to the Court's role in issues such as protecting Roe, retaking the ground lost on voting rights in recent years, overturning Citizens United, protecting court challenges to the Affordable Care Act, etc.

Making the Supreme Court a voting issue allows many different ideological branches within the Democratic coalition to work toward a common cause -- maybe certain Democrats aren't on board with gun control, maybe some are pro-life, and maybe some are A-OK with how much money is in politics, and maybe there are even some (hello, Libertarian-leaning Trumpster fire refugees!) who don't like Obamacare -- but chances are anyone who's inside the Democratic tent now has some interest in one or more of those things being protected / expanded by having Donald Trump not selecting replacement judges.

To put it another way, I think it's precisely because of the way things for this election are realigning in unanticipated ways that creates an opportunity for the Supreme Court argument to be very effective in stopping Trump. It's a mistake to focus on the downside risk of conservatives / Republicans being inflamed by rhetoric about the Court without noting that there's positive value associated with it as well.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:30 AM on August 4, 2016 [6 favorites]


I don't think though that we can keep letting "one issue" voters get away with ignoring/dismissing all of the other problems with the candidate/platform.

Several pro-life voting-for-Hillary bloggers have pointed out abortion rates have gone down under Obama - that if you are actually against abortions, you will support the candidates and measures that have a proven history of reducing them.

Unfortunately, most of the "anti-abortion" crowd are actually "anti-guilt-free-sex" instead; they believe women who have sex should be forced to become mothers. They don't want sex ed; they don't want easy access to contraceptives; they don't want laws that support informed consent and penalize the lack of it. They want candidates who say "Abortion is evil and no damn slut is going to have one under my watch," rather than "abortion is a tragedy that we should prevent with education and resources, so that it's only used for the most extreme situations."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:31 AM on August 4, 2016 [60 favorites]


even if he's only got 40 million

I think it's even less than that. Maybe I'm just blinded by Trump hatred. But I just think he is a total fraud. If you had that much money - would you go around acting like Trump? Not behaving badly in general, but acting like Trump?
posted by sallybrown at 11:31 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


Of course he has to start in with the "system is rigged" stuff; he's going to lose and he knows it

Ezekiel Kweku and Jane Coaston have a great piece on MTV.com about how "many of the political conspiracies that white people fear in America today have already happened — and continue to happen — to black people". The whole thing is worth a read, but here's a snippet:
Trump is an absurd extremist, but fears that elections are being stolen through voter fraud are mainstream among Republicans and conservatives in general. This is despite the fact that there's no evidence of widespread fraud, much less anything pointing to it being used to swing elections. Incidentally, only a few days before Trump used his special pre-crime goggles to detect signs of rigging in an election that's still three months away, federal courts did find evidence of a systematic attempt to rig elections. The catch is that the targeted group wasn't Republicans: It was black people.

...

Long before "they want to take our guns" became a conspiracy theorist trope and a potential cause for a second Civil War, for example, black Americans lost their right to bear arms. (In many cases, they never had that right in the first place.) In 1792, federal law mandated that every eligible man own and care properly for a military-style gun, but state laws forbade even free black men and women from owning so much as ammunition. Nearly 200 years later, the Mulford Act — which banned open carry in the state of California — was aimed squarely at the Black Panthers and heavily supported by both Republicans and the National Rifle Association, 33 years before actor and NRA president Charlton Heston told gun-control advocates that they could pry his weapons from his "cold, dead hands."
posted by AceRock at 11:33 AM on August 4, 2016 [47 favorites]


Everyone's accepted at this point that he's lying about most stuff.

Except the people so far gone that they just say everyone else is lying and he's being completely 100% truthful. LIke the dude on city-data who today told me that all the completely fact-based stuff I said about Trump (most banks won't lend to him, he's worked with Russian oligarchs as investors, he has a fraud case currently against him, he has a habit of not paying his bills) is "pure speculation." So I gave him links to WSJ, USA Today, WaPo, and NYT reporting all of the above. Which I'm sure he'll just tell me is "mainstream media out to get Trump." Facts don't work on these people. (I wouldn't have even bothered except these articles are so thick on the ground and easy to find, it took me like 5 minutes--and I was on my phone, even!)

He's also one of the "I don't care if what Trump said about bringing back steel was complete gibberish, I like that he said it!" Man, if only I could get this much traction from walking around spouting off impossible shit that I just like the sound of.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:34 AM on August 4, 2016 [9 favorites]


Yes!! Yay! Demographics FTW!

Just to be clear, biscotti is a Canadian daughter of English immigrants and is almost as super-honkey as me. Well, now she's Canadian - American.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:34 AM on August 4, 2016 [2 favorites]


All of this seems intuitively sensible to me. I think a lot of Trump primary voters weren't voting for a presidential nominee – not really. They were voting for another year of crass entertainment; they were voting as a "fuck you" to (what they see as) out-of-touch elitists; they were voting for the lulz of watching the librul media and establishment politicians have a massive collective aneurysm.

This is very true. We see a lot of hand-wringing, "how could anybody vote for him?" articles and editorials in the news and even for those who oppose Trump, it gets a little much. There are only so many ways you can say "he's outrageous and bombastic and I disagree with his platform" before it gets old.

A few years ago I read this marketing proverb which went:
People will do anything for those who encourage their dreams, justify their failures, allay their fears, confirm their suspicions and help them throw rocks at their enemies.
Trump is certainly doing all of these things - pressing these buttons in the minds of a broad spectrum of voters. So even if he looks absurd (even to many of them) they still want what he's saying to be true - they want to believe.
posted by theorique at 11:34 AM on August 4, 2016 [10 favorites]


I'm kind of curious how Obama would be doing against Trump. Like, does the right hate Obama or Clinton more. My guess is Clinton.
posted by drezdn at 11:37 AM on August 4, 2016 [1 favorite]


David Axelrod: Trump is Just Being Trump.
posted by bearwife at 11:38 AM on August 4, 2016 [