“Not many people have the will, character, and strength to do it.”
August 5, 2016 6:15 AM Subscribe
The Alternates [Victory Journal] “Coaches and staff do their best to prepare them, and former alternates often give them advice. They’ve heard the stories: autograph seekers pulling their pens away when they hear the word “alternate”; security guards barring them from locker rooms, fields, and athlete lounges. Then there’s the tale of the 2008 women’s gymnastics alternates who not only weren’t allowed to stay in the Beijing Olympic Village, they didn’t even stay in China, but instead found themselves in Tokyo due to visa complications. “We knew we had a really important role,” says gymnast Anna Li. “But we weren’t going to be treated the same.” Yet until they live it, they can’t really understand it.”
"Oh, hey, do you think not that girl will show up to talk about gymnastics? Yes?"
At the world championships for gymnastics, the alternates are in all the team pictures, suit up on competition day, and get on the podium with the team. Here's the 2014 bronze-medal world championships team. Alternate Paul Ruggeri is on the far right. I always thought that would be a hard position to be in, that a person might feel like the ultimate fifth wheel, and a bit odd about getting on the podium and claiming a medal. But this thing where they're not even part of the event is much worse.
I didn't realize it wasn't the same until the Olympics media started, and the alternates weren't showing up in photos. It disappointed me. I can see why the Olympics excludes alternates—they'd really add up, coming from all over the world. But I'd like to see them treated as part of the team.
The traffic in Rio is so bad that it was taking the US women's gymnastics alternates 2.5 hours to get from their practice gym to the place where they were staying. They brought in these folding pads for the floor so they could rest at the gym. One of the women gymnasts from a country that didn't qualify a team was so poorly treated by her country's federation that when she got to Rio, they hadn't arranged practice space. She was practicing in a fitness center—weightlifting equipment and so forth, and no mats or gymnastics equipment. Eventually she was able to join the two alternates from another country in their facility.
On the other hand, the British women's alternates don't even travel. They stay in the UK, practicing, expected to travel at the last minute if needed. There are time limits on when replacement athletes can be named, so it is possible for a team to end up a member short if they have a last-minute injury or illness.
In men's gymnastics, 2008 alternate Rav Bhasvar stepped up to the team when Paul Hamm was injured, and was part of the bronze-medal winning team. Danell Leyva traveled to Rio this year as a team member after John Orozco was injured in training.
posted by not that girl at 7:38 AM on August 5, 2016 [7 favorites]
At the world championships for gymnastics, the alternates are in all the team pictures, suit up on competition day, and get on the podium with the team. Here's the 2014 bronze-medal world championships team. Alternate Paul Ruggeri is on the far right. I always thought that would be a hard position to be in, that a person might feel like the ultimate fifth wheel, and a bit odd about getting on the podium and claiming a medal. But this thing where they're not even part of the event is much worse.
I didn't realize it wasn't the same until the Olympics media started, and the alternates weren't showing up in photos. It disappointed me. I can see why the Olympics excludes alternates—they'd really add up, coming from all over the world. But I'd like to see them treated as part of the team.
The traffic in Rio is so bad that it was taking the US women's gymnastics alternates 2.5 hours to get from their practice gym to the place where they were staying. They brought in these folding pads for the floor so they could rest at the gym. One of the women gymnasts from a country that didn't qualify a team was so poorly treated by her country's federation that when she got to Rio, they hadn't arranged practice space. She was practicing in a fitness center—weightlifting equipment and so forth, and no mats or gymnastics equipment. Eventually she was able to join the two alternates from another country in their facility.
On the other hand, the British women's alternates don't even travel. They stay in the UK, practicing, expected to travel at the last minute if needed. There are time limits on when replacement athletes can be named, so it is possible for a team to end up a member short if they have a last-minute injury or illness.
In men's gymnastics, 2008 alternate Rav Bhasvar stepped up to the team when Paul Hamm was injured, and was part of the bronze-medal winning team. Danell Leyva traveled to Rio this year as a team member after John Orozco was injured in training.
posted by not that girl at 7:38 AM on August 5, 2016 [7 favorites]
It seems terribly unfair and just plain stupid that the alternates are not thoroughly included and productively integrated into everything but actual competition.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:14 AM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:14 AM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
Back in high school I had a bad ankle injury for a few weeks and missed some key tennis tournaments. I was allowed to ride on the bus and sit in the stands with our coaches. It was maddening to not be a part of the action, the urge to pick up a racquet and join in. I cannot imagine what it feels like on this scale.
posted by Fizz at 8:15 AM on August 5, 2016
posted by Fizz at 8:15 AM on August 5, 2016
It seems terribly unfair and just plain stupid that the alternates are not thoroughly included and productively integrated into everything but actual competition.
Indeed. I am guessing though that like everything else with the Olympics, the ultimate decision has to do with money.
posted by Fizz at 8:16 AM on August 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
Indeed. I am guessing though that like everything else with the Olympics, the ultimate decision has to do with money.
posted by Fizz at 8:16 AM on August 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
I didn't realize it wasn't the same until the Olympics media started, and the alternates weren't showing up in photos. It disappointed me. I can see why the Olympics excludes alternates—they'd really add up, coming from all over the world. But I'd like to see them treated as part of the team.
Yeah, but it's a trivial amount of money, given the amount of dosh thrown around for these events, to not be a dick to these athletes. Why would you be a dick?
Heck, if I was a big sponsor, I'd kick in the additional funding myself, just for the sheer goodwill it'd get me. Can you imagine the ads? "Thanks to the generous sponsorship of Coca-Cola, Sherry Johnson and all the other alternates of the US Olympic Team are now able to ..."
posted by leotrotsky at 8:16 AM on August 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, but it's a trivial amount of money, given the amount of dosh thrown around for these events, to not be a dick to these athletes. Why would you be a dick?
Heck, if I was a big sponsor, I'd kick in the additional funding myself, just for the sheer goodwill it'd get me. Can you imagine the ads? "Thanks to the generous sponsorship of Coca-Cola, Sherry Johnson and all the other alternates of the US Olympic Team are now able to ..."
posted by leotrotsky at 8:16 AM on August 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
"Yeah, but it's a trivial amount of money, given the amount of dosh thrown around for these events, to not be a dick to these athletes."
That's what bothers me the most. Putting aside the very real issue of differences in funding between national teams within the context of all this money sloshing about, it's really insane that this is an issue for, say, the US alternates.
I'm always a little taken aback at how strongly negative many people here feel about the Olympics because I really like the idea of the Olympics and some part of me will always be that little kid who is awed and thrilled by the spectacle, the drama of competition, and demonstration of human excellence. Even so, I do understand and agree with many of the criticisms and this is the sort of thing where they most deeply resonate with me -- the fact that there's so much money involved in the Olympics and so the one thing that you'd think would be guaranteed is that the athletes themselves would be treated well, including the alternates. Lack of money is not an excuse.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:40 AM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
That's what bothers me the most. Putting aside the very real issue of differences in funding between national teams within the context of all this money sloshing about, it's really insane that this is an issue for, say, the US alternates.
I'm always a little taken aback at how strongly negative many people here feel about the Olympics because I really like the idea of the Olympics and some part of me will always be that little kid who is awed and thrilled by the spectacle, the drama of competition, and demonstration of human excellence. Even so, I do understand and agree with many of the criticisms and this is the sort of thing where they most deeply resonate with me -- the fact that there's so much money involved in the Olympics and so the one thing that you'd think would be guaranteed is that the athletes themselves would be treated well, including the alternates. Lack of money is not an excuse.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:40 AM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
Indeed. I am guessing though that like everything else with the Olympics, the ultimate decision has to do with money.
On some sports teams players with injuries are deliberately segregated from the team - told not to travel and so on - because being injured is a bummer and people who are depressed can be a detriment to a team's mood. I wouldn't be at all surprised if alternates are kept apart by some teams to avoid similar interpersonal dynamics.
posted by srboisvert at 8:41 AM on August 5, 2016
On some sports teams players with injuries are deliberately segregated from the team - told not to travel and so on - because being injured is a bummer and people who are depressed can be a detriment to a team's mood. I wouldn't be at all surprised if alternates are kept apart by some teams to avoid similar interpersonal dynamics.
posted by srboisvert at 8:41 AM on August 5, 2016
I don't think this is to do with money at the national level. You get to stay in the Olympic village if you are competing. Alternates aren't really official in any way. As I understand it, they are just athletes that their countries decide to send to the city where the Olympics are held because they might be needed, but they aren't official in any sense with the IOC.
I think the US is somewhat special in sending a lot of alternates to the games. Other countries don't do that as much because it costs a lot of money (many have alternates that stay at home). If every country sent the number of alternates that the US did and the host had to provide accommodation, training facilities, etc. for all those alternates, it would be a big deal. This isn't about sponsor money or national money. Coke can't just pay for the alternates to stay in the Olympic village.
I'm not at all convinced that the hosts should be putting up hundreds or thousands of alternates.
posted by ssg at 8:51 AM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think the US is somewhat special in sending a lot of alternates to the games. Other countries don't do that as much because it costs a lot of money (many have alternates that stay at home). If every country sent the number of alternates that the US did and the host had to provide accommodation, training facilities, etc. for all those alternates, it would be a big deal. This isn't about sponsor money or national money. Coke can't just pay for the alternates to stay in the Olympic village.
I'm not at all convinced that the hosts should be putting up hundreds or thousands of alternates.
posted by ssg at 8:51 AM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
Great article. It is hard to find a new compelling subject as the Olympics are so well covered, but this is, at least to me, a new perspective.
I have mixed emotions about the alternates. Of course, when you read the article, because it is so personal, you really empathize with the athletes. In the abstract, when you take away the names and faces, I am not so sure what to think. The ultimate prize for an athlete is a championship or an Olympic medal. All athletes know and appreciate that they keep score for a reason and not everyone wins or is the best. I guess it is nice to know that you are the first runner-up or the second, but ultimately you are the runner-up. To the victors go the spoils.
This discussion can naturally lead to a discussion on participation trophies at the youth level. I am torn about them but ultimately fall, marginally, on the side of no participation trophies. One alternate made the point of it might have been better to have just been told you were not good enough rather than told you are first alternate and if one of your teammates were to get hurt, we want you to participate. I for one would be uncomfortable being in the awkward position of almost hoping a teammate gets hurt.
I get that it makes the most sense to not allow them to participate in the opening ceremony or get up on the podium for a medal ceremony, but I do think they should be allowed to stay in the Olympic village especially since I think each Country pays rent for its delegation and do think they should have credentials such that for specific sports, theirs, they can have access to the locker room and team meetings.
Anyway, this article brings up a lot of things that I will wrestle with while watching the Olympics.
posted by AugustWest at 9:19 AM on August 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
I have mixed emotions about the alternates. Of course, when you read the article, because it is so personal, you really empathize with the athletes. In the abstract, when you take away the names and faces, I am not so sure what to think. The ultimate prize for an athlete is a championship or an Olympic medal. All athletes know and appreciate that they keep score for a reason and not everyone wins or is the best. I guess it is nice to know that you are the first runner-up or the second, but ultimately you are the runner-up. To the victors go the spoils.
This discussion can naturally lead to a discussion on participation trophies at the youth level. I am torn about them but ultimately fall, marginally, on the side of no participation trophies. One alternate made the point of it might have been better to have just been told you were not good enough rather than told you are first alternate and if one of your teammates were to get hurt, we want you to participate. I for one would be uncomfortable being in the awkward position of almost hoping a teammate gets hurt.
I get that it makes the most sense to not allow them to participate in the opening ceremony or get up on the podium for a medal ceremony, but I do think they should be allowed to stay in the Olympic village especially since I think each Country pays rent for its delegation and do think they should have credentials such that for specific sports, theirs, they can have access to the locker room and team meetings.
Anyway, this article brings up a lot of things that I will wrestle with while watching the Olympics.
posted by AugustWest at 9:19 AM on August 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
"As I understand it, they are just athletes that their countries decide to send to the city where the Olympics are held because they might be needed, but they aren't official in any sense with the IOC."
I think that either the IOC rules and the associated systems should integrate the alternates, or there shouldn't be alternates at all. And the number of alternates relative to the number of competitors is not that large -- it's not anything even close to one-to-one. I don't see this as onerous, and especially so given how much money is spent on the Olympics on other things.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:14 AM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think that either the IOC rules and the associated systems should integrate the alternates, or there shouldn't be alternates at all. And the number of alternates relative to the number of competitors is not that large -- it's not anything even close to one-to-one. I don't see this as onerous, and especially so given how much money is spent on the Olympics on other things.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:14 AM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
On some sports teams players with injuries are deliberately segregated from the team - told not to travel and so on - because being injured is a bummer and people who are depressed can be a detriment to a team's mood. I wouldn't be at all surprised if alternates are kept apart by some teams to avoid similar interpersonal dynamics.
Maybe if they didn't treat them like shit the alternates wouldn't be so bummed out.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:52 PM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
Maybe if they didn't treat them like shit the alternates wouldn't be so bummed out.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:52 PM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm pretty sure the alternates being bummed out is about 97% being really close but not able to compete in the Olympics and 3% their living arrangements. These are competitive athletes, they want to compete.
posted by ssg at 2:50 PM on August 5, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by ssg at 2:50 PM on August 5, 2016 [3 favorites]
There are a lot of hard emotions in sports, and this thing with the alternates is just one of them. I've never been a really invested sports fan before—this is my first Olympics where I know anything about any of the sports or athletes going in. I'm already suffering mixed feelings because while I'm happy to see Danell Leyva on the team, I'm also aware that John Orozco is at home just taking his first steps after surgery, and that Donnell Whittenberg, who everybody thought would make the team, is an alternate, and that one of my favorite gymnasts, always a long shot, started out so strong in the qualifying process that he got all our hopes up, and then blew it big time on the very first apparatus in the next session. A lot of athletes retire at Olympics time. They retire right before the Olympics because it was their last shot at qualifying and they didn't make it, or they retire right after. I don't know if my fella is going to retire, but I'm sad at the possibility that I won't get to see him do his gorgeous high bar anymore.
posted by not that girl at 6:08 PM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by not that girl at 6:08 PM on August 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
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