...with Channing Tatum as the mermaid
August 15, 2016 12:07 PM Subscribe
"I want to see a gender-swapped remake of every movie. Literally every one. And some television shows.
I will elaborate."
how fun would a gender-swapped Die Hard be????
posted by supermedusa at 12:22 PM on August 15, 2016 [32 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 12:22 PM on August 15, 2016 [32 favorites]
Well, I want Werner Herzog to do remakes of every film, not just "Bad Lieutenant". Werner Herzog's "Citizen Kane". Werner Herzog's "Roman Holiday", Werner Herzog's "Earthquake!".
posted by thelonius at 12:23 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 12:23 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Just thinking how this would work with films like "Beyond The Valley Of The Dolls".
posted by boilermonster at 12:23 PM on August 15, 2016
posted by boilermonster at 12:23 PM on August 15, 2016
Not sure I really want an entire trend of gender swapped films that I already grew up with. That could get boring very quickly. I have no problem with more female leads, more people of colour. I champion that in all aspects of our society: literature, art, academics, film, music, politics, etc. But I do wish that Hollywood/Producers would take more chances on NEW ideas, NEW stories. But, I guess its all about the money and so we're continually plagued with sequel-itis and reboot-ism.
posted by Fizz at 12:24 PM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 12:24 PM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
Every movie and show where all the animals are male
Like that one about male cows in once saw, Barnyard. Male cows.
there are no male cows!!
posted by chapps at 12:27 PM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
Like that one about male cows in once saw, Barnyard. Male cows.
there are no male cows!!
posted by chapps at 12:27 PM on August 15, 2016 [10 favorites]
But yet they have udders.
(I did a whole bit once about how we really just didn't understand gender in the Barnyard universe once - who were we to judge their concepts of male and female through our own human gaze - that I found incredibly funny at the time and those with me at the time tolerated.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:30 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
(I did a whole bit once about how we really just didn't understand gender in the Barnyard universe once - who were we to judge their concepts of male and female through our own human gaze - that I found incredibly funny at the time and those with me at the time tolerated.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:30 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
I am totally on board with this article.
posted by Shmuel510 at 12:33 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Shmuel510 at 12:33 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm loving this gender swapped Olympics.
posted by roger ackroyd at 12:33 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by roger ackroyd at 12:33 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
The craze for "gender-swapping" older movies is just re-emphasizing for me that there was no reason for them to be so sex-segregated in the first place.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:36 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:36 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
Glengarry Glen Ross, in which four salespeople, terrorized by a “motivational” trainer, shout at each other and sell shitty real estate. This was performed in 2013 as a live all-female reading with Robin Wright in the Al Pacino role and, perhaps even more interestingly, Mae Whitman in the Kevin Spacey role. Kevin Spacey is great, but I would also be very interested in seeing Mae Whitman reprise all of his roles.Her?
posted by TypographicalError at 12:37 PM on August 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
I don't really see the point in having a contemporary woman stuffed into a role written for a man in the 1970s or 1980s. There is more to writing a good role that people identify with than making them really cool and kickass. Better to write new roles for women from the ground up. A lot of thought and backstory goes into a character: era, gender, education, family background etc. Saying "I want to see women play roles written for men and with essentially, someone's else backstory" devalues actual women in my mind.
It is also possible* for women and girls to identify with male roles and men to identify with female roles too, if the life experiences are similar or the characters are well written. Carol in The Walking Dead is a good example. She's firmly rooted in her backstory as a unthreatening wife and mother but people can totally identify with her because she's smart and tough and does relatable human things. Well at least till recently.
*By which I mean insanely common.
posted by fshgrl at 12:38 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
It is also possible* for women and girls to identify with male roles and men to identify with female roles too, if the life experiences are similar or the characters are well written. Carol in The Walking Dead is a good example. She's firmly rooted in her backstory as a unthreatening wife and mother but people can totally identify with her because she's smart and tough and does relatable human things. Well at least till recently.
*By which I mean insanely common.
posted by fshgrl at 12:38 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I came out of Ghostbusters wanting to see a remake of Real Genius with Kate McKinnon in the Val Kilmer role, possibly followed by remakes of all other Val Kilmer comedies with Kate McKinnon in the Val Kilmer role.
Now that makes me want a gender-swapped Tombstone.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 12:40 PM on August 15, 2016 [64 favorites]
Now that makes me want a gender-swapped Tombstone.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 12:40 PM on August 15, 2016 [64 favorites]
So, gender-swapped 'Faster Pussycat! Kill! Kill!' is just a buncha guys in speedos with huge testicles driving around the desert?
Sounds chafey.
posted by rock swoon has no past at 12:40 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
Sounds chafey.
posted by rock swoon has no past at 12:40 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
"Freaky Friday" with Andy Samberg and Adam Sandler. (With a lot of acting coaching, maybe).
posted by amtho at 12:43 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by amtho at 12:43 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I came out of Ghostbusters wanting to see a remake of Real Genius with Kate McKinnon in the Val Kilmer role, possibly followed by remakes of all other Val Kilmer comedies with Kate McKinnon in the Val Kilmer role.
Kate McKinnon as Iceman in Top Gun.
posted by Fizz at 12:43 PM on August 15, 2016 [55 favorites]
Kate McKinnon as Iceman in Top Gun.
posted by Fizz at 12:43 PM on August 15, 2016 [55 favorites]
Now that makes me want a gender-swapped Tombstone.
Kate McKinnon delivering the "I'm your huckleberry" line?
This must happen now.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
Kate McKinnon delivering the "I'm your huckleberry" line?
This must happen now.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
It's not about stuffing women into men's roles. It's about taking a thing that happens (starting a ghost-hunting company!) and putting women--actual women, not recreated male characters--in that position to see what the story looked like. My favorite thing about Ghostbusters is that it wasn't about them being *lady* ghostbusters. They were just four people having this adventure--the fact that they were women was incidental. I really don't think I can explain how much it meant to me.
posted by gideonfrog at 12:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [39 favorites]
posted by gideonfrog at 12:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [39 favorites]
Is there any reason why Charlie and Bosley have to be male in Charlie's Angels?
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:48 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:48 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I saw this this morning and thought about posting it - thanks for doing so!
I'm surprised at the pushback. Gender-swapping is a thought exercise first and foremost. I am not saying that I wouldn't watch the hell out of most of the described movies, but it's also the easiest way to point out where our current standards are lacking - certainly much easier than writing a new, thoughtful screenplay with great female characters (while avoiding the effects of internalized bias) and getting it greenlit and produced. I mean consider these two:
Bring It On with male cheerleaders. Does it seem a little weird that a 37-year-old writer is enthusiastically recommending a film starring sexy teenage boys in revealing outfits? LET US THEN THINK ABOUT SOME THINGS THAT ARE NORMALIZED IN OUR CULTURE.
Romantic comedies in which the male leads are all quirky, economically vulnerable entrepreneurs who run whimsical bakeshops.
Is she really, literally asking for these exact movies to be made? Maybe, but it seems more likely that she's making a point. A good one, that's worth listening to.
posted by sunset in snow country at 12:58 PM on August 15, 2016 [47 favorites]
I'm surprised at the pushback. Gender-swapping is a thought exercise first and foremost. I am not saying that I wouldn't watch the hell out of most of the described movies, but it's also the easiest way to point out where our current standards are lacking - certainly much easier than writing a new, thoughtful screenplay with great female characters (while avoiding the effects of internalized bias) and getting it greenlit and produced. I mean consider these two:
Bring It On with male cheerleaders. Does it seem a little weird that a 37-year-old writer is enthusiastically recommending a film starring sexy teenage boys in revealing outfits? LET US THEN THINK ABOUT SOME THINGS THAT ARE NORMALIZED IN OUR CULTURE.
Romantic comedies in which the male leads are all quirky, economically vulnerable entrepreneurs who run whimsical bakeshops.
Is she really, literally asking for these exact movies to be made? Maybe, but it seems more likely that she's making a point. A good one, that's worth listening to.
posted by sunset in snow country at 12:58 PM on August 15, 2016 [47 favorites]
Oh, and Jen Dziura is my fucking hero. If you're a lady who wants to read about productivity and career stuff and enjoy sparkly calligraphic motivational phrases but without all the privileged bullshit and subtle shaming that comes with Lean In-type resources, Get Bullish is your jam.
posted by sunset in snow country at 1:02 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by sunset in snow country at 1:02 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
"We have never gotten our female stoner buddy comedy. Bring it on."
Not a movie, but Broad City is pretty damn great, IMO.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 1:11 PM on August 15, 2016 [20 favorites]
Not a movie, but Broad City is pretty damn great, IMO.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 1:11 PM on August 15, 2016 [20 favorites]
"We have never gotten our female stoner buddy comedy."
It's a TV show, not a movie, but Broad City does this (and much more) perfectly!
posted by shortyJBot at 1:12 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
It's a TV show, not a movie, but Broad City does this (and much more) perfectly!
posted by shortyJBot at 1:12 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Compromise? Instead of calling for every movie to be remade with the genders swapped, just call for every movie that gets remade to have the genders swapped.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 1:14 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by J.K. Seazer at 1:14 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
How would you regender a movie like Knocked Up? I admit to being stumped by that one ...
Hire Arnold Schwarzenegger, Danny DeVito and Emma Thompson?
posted by octobersurprise at 1:16 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Hire Arnold Schwarzenegger, Danny DeVito and Emma Thompson?
posted by octobersurprise at 1:16 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
possibly followed by remakes of all other Val Kilmer comedies with Kate McKinnon in the Val Kilmer role
Just comedies?
Kate McKinnon as Batman
Kate McKinnon as Jim Morrison
Boom, I just invented a new sexual orientation.
posted by Lyn Never at 1:18 PM on August 15, 2016 [50 favorites]
Just comedies?
Kate McKinnon as Batman
Kate McKinnon as Jim Morrison
Boom, I just invented a new sexual orientation.
posted by Lyn Never at 1:18 PM on August 15, 2016 [50 favorites]
Kate McKinnon as Iceman in Top Gun.
"The plaque for the alternates is down in the boys room."
posted by Kabanos at 1:23 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
"The plaque for the alternates is down in the boys room."
posted by Kabanos at 1:23 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
Is she really, literally asking for these exact movies to be made?
Yes. Sarcastically. Not so sarcastically, to be honest.
posted by signal at 1:31 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yes. Sarcastically. Not so sarcastically, to be honest.
posted by signal at 1:31 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I now demand a gender-swapped "Chinatown". Also a gender-swapped "Manhattan" while I'm on a controversial directors kick.
posted by enjoymoreradio at 1:35 PM on August 15, 2016
posted by enjoymoreradio at 1:35 PM on August 15, 2016
Kristen Schaal as Janice Bourne.
posted by Pendragon at 1:36 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Pendragon at 1:36 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
12 Angry Women
posted by Confess, Fletch at 1:37 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Confess, Fletch at 1:37 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I came out of Ghostbusters wanting to see a remake of Real Genius with Kate McKinnon in the Val Kilmer role, possibly followed by remakes of all other Val Kilmer comedies with Kate McKinnon in the Val Kilmer role.
As a massive fan of the original, I'm not sure whether I want to see a gender-swapped remake of Willow. Which is to say I madly do but don't know how I feel about all the super-sorceresses being dudes and the farmer with the parlor tricks who gets saddled with the baby being the girl, even if she does save the day. Or the evil warrior-prince being seduced to the side of good by how bangin' Kate McKinnon is.
Basically Willow was pretty good.
posted by kafziel at 1:38 PM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
As a massive fan of the original, I'm not sure whether I want to see a gender-swapped remake of Willow. Which is to say I madly do but don't know how I feel about all the super-sorceresses being dudes and the farmer with the parlor tricks who gets saddled with the baby being the girl, even if she does save the day. Or the evil warrior-prince being seduced to the side of good by how bangin' Kate McKinnon is.
Basically Willow was pretty good.
posted by kafziel at 1:38 PM on August 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
How about doing a gender swap for Ghost but you flip a coin for each character and keep rebooting it until you've covered every permutation.
posted by varion at 1:38 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by varion at 1:38 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
how fun would a gender-swapped Die Hard be????
or just every painfully macho action movie since ... well, start with the first Rambo. Or better yet Rocky. Or maybe just every Stallone film, including the early porn.
posted by philip-random at 1:41 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
or just every painfully macho action movie since ... well, start with the first Rambo. Or better yet Rocky. Or maybe just every Stallone film, including the early porn.
posted by philip-random at 1:41 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Movies I want to see regendered:
• The Deer Hunter
• Halloween
• Mommie Dearest
• Cobra Woman
• Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
• The Thing with Two Heads
and
• Myra Breckinridge
posted by octobersurprise at 1:44 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
• The Deer Hunter
• Halloween
• Mommie Dearest
• Cobra Woman
• Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
• The Thing with Two Heads
and
• Myra Breckinridge
posted by octobersurprise at 1:44 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Gender-swapped Halloween would be amazing!
posted by jeff-o-matic at 1:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jeff-o-matic at 1:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Gender swapped The Crying Game, with Helena Bonham Carter in place of Stephen Rae. And in my head Adel sings the eponymous theme song.
posted by romakimmy at 1:47 PM on August 15, 2016
posted by romakimmy at 1:47 PM on August 15, 2016
A gender-swap of the original "Alien"
Oh, wait...
posted by jeff-o-matic at 1:49 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Oh, wait...
posted by jeff-o-matic at 1:49 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Salt was gender-swapped, wasn't it? Written for Tom Cruise originally. And when I watched it, I realised how jarring the fridging of her husband was. Because male spouses are usually far too important to get killed off just to provide the lead with motivation. I doubt I'd even have noticed if it was a Tom Cruise disposable girlfriend being killed off.
posted by tinkletown at 1:56 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by tinkletown at 1:56 PM on August 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
How about a gender-swap of Carrie?
posted by jeff-o-matic at 2:00 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by jeff-o-matic at 2:00 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Thelma and Louise as long change it to keep the happy ending without wrecking the Cadillac.
posted by Confess, Fletch at 2:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Confess, Fletch at 2:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think there is an element of reboot fatigue in the pushback. We're in an extremely derivative cinema phase.
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:02 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:02 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Romantic comedies in which the male leads are all quirky, economically vulnerable entrepreneurs who run whimsical bakeshops.
Pretty much already a thing isn't it? Eg: Notting Hill.
tinkletown: "Salt was gender-swapped, wasn't it?"
The article goes into how essentially the only change was Jolie's request they write out a child.
posted by Mitheral at 2:03 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Pretty much already a thing isn't it? Eg: Notting Hill.
tinkletown: "Salt was gender-swapped, wasn't it?"
The article goes into how essentially the only change was Jolie's request they write out a child.
posted by Mitheral at 2:03 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also — The Ten Commandments.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:06 PM on August 15, 2016
posted by octobersurprise at 2:06 PM on August 15, 2016
Silence of the Lambs.
posted by Grangousier at 2:08 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 2:08 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Glengarry Glen Ross was done with an all woman cast at my college in the nineties. But I think that was more a drag performance than a remake.
posted by condour75 at 2:14 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by condour75 at 2:14 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Die Hard" was not painfully macho. It was exceptionally macho. ("You macho assholes! No, no!" Police tank is toast.)
posted by raysmj at 2:19 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by raysmj at 2:19 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
A gender-swap of the original "Alien"
The movie isn't really going to go anywhere if the Alien can't lay eggs.
posted by GuyZero at 2:19 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
The movie isn't really going to go anywhere if the Alien can't lay eggs.
posted by GuyZero at 2:19 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
I think if you want a really interesting look at gender, do Fried Green Tomatoes.
posted by straw at 2:25 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by straw at 2:25 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Fight Club
posted by Kabanos at 2:25 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Kabanos at 2:25 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Is she really, literally asking for these exact movies to be made?
No, except for Dr. Strangelove starring Tilda Swinton. That must happen.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:26 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
No, except for Dr. Strangelove starring Tilda Swinton. That must happen.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:26 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
Gender isn't necessarily determined by one's ability to lay eggs.
posted by sfenders at 2:26 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by sfenders at 2:26 PM on August 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
"The plaque for the alternates is down in the boys room."
I guess technically I should have written that as "men's room" ("gentlemen's room"?)...
posted by Kabanos at 2:31 PM on August 15, 2016
I guess technically I should have written that as "men's room" ("gentlemen's room"?)...
posted by Kabanos at 2:31 PM on August 15, 2016
Oh! Oh! I want a gender-swapped version of Tarkovsky's Andrei Rublev.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:34 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 2:34 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh! Oh! I want a gender-swapped version of Tarkovsky's Andrei Rublev.
Solaris!!
posted by Fizz at 2:39 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Solaris!!
posted by Fizz at 2:39 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
The entertainment press often refers to Tatum's recast role as a "mermaid" rather than a "merman." (See also the title of this thread.)
Got me thinking. Maybe he should really play a mermaid.
posted by Quaversalis at 2:42 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Got me thinking. Maybe he should really play a mermaid.
posted by Quaversalis at 2:42 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'd like to see a gender randomised version of The Good Wife, with every character randomly assigned to AMAB or AFAB and randomly assigned to male, female or nonbinary. People will be gender non-conforming with no pattern to it. Oh, and we'll have no idea who is intersex and who isn't either. Also, for something that I'm more likely to see in my lifetime I would like Alicia to shoot laser beams from her eyes.
posted by langtonsant at 2:49 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by langtonsant at 2:49 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
how fun would a gender-swapped Die Hard be????
I love the idea, but the casting is giving me a headache. Part of what made Die Hard work was the casting - Bruce Willis (at that time) was known for Moonlighting and it was perceived as a big leap for him to go to action film star; and having Alan Rickman as the villain was magnificent, and I believe he was not well known yet either (at least in North America).
posted by nubs at 2:55 PM on August 15, 2016
I love the idea, but the casting is giving me a headache. Part of what made Die Hard work was the casting - Bruce Willis (at that time) was known for Moonlighting and it was perceived as a big leap for him to go to action film star; and having Alan Rickman as the villain was magnificent, and I believe he was not well known yet either (at least in North America).
posted by nubs at 2:55 PM on August 15, 2016
Hayao Miyazaki is a director that usually comes to mind whenever a discussion about gender in film comes up. And while Miyazaki frequently channels the Alice in Wonderland trope of a little girl sent down a hole into a strange land/place. He has a pretty good track record of creating complex female characters who have their own agency and power within the worlds that they were situated in. I wish Hollywood would look to him and his animated oeuvre as an example.
Princess Mononoke
Spirited Away
Nausicaä of the Valley of Wind
Kiki's Delivery Service
posted by Fizz at 2:56 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Princess Mononoke
Spirited Away
Nausicaä of the Valley of Wind
Kiki's Delivery Service
posted by Fizz at 2:56 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ooh! I know! The clearly-solely-an-art-film-not-porn-really Blue Is The Warmest Color. No doubt the critics will love it just as much.
Even better- Leon the Professional. Leah the Professional. Be sure to mimic the 'director's cut!'
...I just grossed myself out. No, I don't really want this made. Leon was bad enough.
posted by JulesER at 3:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Even better- Leon the Professional. Leah the Professional. Be sure to mimic the 'director's cut!'
...I just grossed myself out. No, I don't really want this made. Leon was bad enough.
posted by JulesER at 3:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Silence of the Lambs.
Clarence Starling ; Annabelle Lecter.
(and along those lines, Brian Fuller's Hannibal TV series genderswapped some of the supporting roles: Alana Bloom, Frederika "Freddy" Lounds.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 3:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Clarence Starling ; Annabelle Lecter.
(and along those lines, Brian Fuller's Hannibal TV series genderswapped some of the supporting roles: Alana Bloom, Frederika "Freddy" Lounds.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 3:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Two words: Disney Princes.
(and the Seven Little Ladies... and Pinocchia with the phallic nose... and Toy Story where all the major characters are Barbie doll variations... and Up with the voice of the Legendary June Foray)
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:08 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
(and the Seven Little Ladies... and Pinocchia with the phallic nose... and Toy Story where all the major characters are Barbie doll variations... and Up with the voice of the Legendary June Foray)
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:08 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
DUNE?!?! Oh man. Only this time we get a bad ass Princess Irulan who leads the Fremen. TAKE MY MONEY!?!
posted by Fizz at 3:09 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 3:09 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Um Star Wars? All of them? And have a Vader who is the Mother of All Sorrows....
posted by LuckyMonkey21 at 3:11 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by LuckyMonkey21 at 3:11 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Um Star Wars? All of them? And have a Vader who is the Mother of All Sorrows....
Darth Mater
posted by nubs at 3:11 PM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
Darth Mater
posted by nubs at 3:11 PM on August 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
I love the idea, but the casting is giving me a headache. Part of what made Die Hard work was the casting - Bruce Willis (at that time) was known for Moonlighting and it was perceived as a big leap for him to go to action film star
Yeah because there's no woman out there who would have to take a big uncharacteristic leap into an action film leading role. Hmm. Tina Fey in that role would be sweet.
How about a female Cool Hand Luke? Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid? Taxi Driver? Deliverance? A female Deliverance would be fucking awesome. Rambo. Kristen Wiig as Jill Rambo.
posted by jimmythefish at 3:12 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah because there's no woman out there who would have to take a big uncharacteristic leap into an action film leading role. Hmm. Tina Fey in that role would be sweet.
How about a female Cool Hand Luke? Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid? Taxi Driver? Deliverance? A female Deliverance would be fucking awesome. Rambo. Kristen Wiig as Jill Rambo.
posted by jimmythefish at 3:12 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Darth Mater
I immediately saw a rusty tow truck with a black helmet and cape.
I'm dumb now because i have children
posted by condour75 at 3:13 PM on August 15, 2016 [27 favorites]
I immediately saw a rusty tow truck with a black helmet and cape.
I'm dumb now because i have children
posted by condour75 at 3:13 PM on August 15, 2016 [27 favorites]
Mannie Hall.
posted by JulesER at 3:21 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by JulesER at 3:21 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
The webcartoon (kinda) creator who does Irregular Webcomic and curates Square Root of Minus Garfield also has Darths and Droids, which uses screenshots from the Original Trilogy and dialog based on players in a tabletop game; by the current "Episode 1392", it has redefined may of the characters, most notably genderswapping Darth Vader.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:28 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:28 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
how fun would a gender-swapped Die Hard be????
ALL THE FUN. (srsly, I love action movies, but get immediately exhausted thinking about gender in action movies. this is really what I love about 2016 Ghostbusters, it being a non-exhausting action movie.)
so, similarly:
* The Fast & The Furious
* The Transporter (imagine the world-weary old lady French cop!)
posted by epersonae at 3:29 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
ALL THE FUN. (srsly, I love action movies, but get immediately exhausted thinking about gender in action movies. this is really what I love about 2016 Ghostbusters, it being a non-exhausting action movie.)
so, similarly:
* The Fast & The Furious
* The Transporter (imagine the world-weary old lady French cop!)
posted by epersonae at 3:29 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Mr. Doubtfire, where Judy Dench plays Defensive End for the Philadephia Eagles.
posted by jimmythefish at 3:30 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by jimmythefish at 3:30 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I would like The Princess Bride genderswapped please. Thank you.
posted by The otter lady at 3:32 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by The otter lady at 3:32 PM on August 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
The Last Temptation of Christ
posted by neutralmojo at 3:40 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by neutralmojo at 3:40 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
A gender-swap of the original "Alien".
The role of Ripley was originally written for a man. You can thank Ridley Scott for that switcheroo.
posted by ninazer0 at 3:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
The role of Ripley was originally written for a man. You can thank Ridley Scott for that switcheroo.
posted by ninazer0 at 3:45 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
I know theater has always been more experimental than Hollywood. But everyone loved our all-female Julius Caesar. And the all-female Taming of the Shrew they just did in New York City was a hit. In Janet's words, I've tasted blood, and I want more.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:47 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:47 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Laura of Arabia
Marty Poppins
Purple Rain, by Princess and the Revolution
Bruce Willis stars as Jane Fonda in an all-new remake of The Making of 'The China Syndrome'
posted by sfenders at 4:04 PM on August 15, 2016
Marty Poppins
Purple Rain, by Princess and the Revolution
Bruce Willis stars as Jane Fonda in an all-new remake of The Making of 'The China Syndrome'
posted by sfenders at 4:04 PM on August 15, 2016
Genderswap The Usual Suspects, please!
I watched it again recently and counted speaking men's roles to speaking women's roles and it is like over 17 to just one
posted by cadge at 4:05 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
I watched it again recently and counted speaking men's roles to speaking women's roles and it is like over 17 to just one
posted by cadge at 4:05 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Pretty Woman & Steel Magnolias
posted by romakimmy at 4:44 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by romakimmy at 4:44 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Gender-swapped Seven Samurai.
Gender-swapped Yojimbo.
Also the Western versions.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:55 PM on August 15, 2016
Gender-swapped Yojimbo.
Also the Western versions.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:55 PM on August 15, 2016
I'm totally serous about Seven Samurai, too.
Wen Ming-Na shaves her head at the beginning to look like a nun, and then kills the hostage takers? Lucy Liu as Kikuchiyo?
How freakin' raw would that be?
Oh shit, and set it in Qing-era China, too.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:02 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Wen Ming-Na shaves her head at the beginning to look like a nun, and then kills the hostage takers? Lucy Liu as Kikuchiyo?
How freakin' raw would that be?
Oh shit, and set it in Qing-era China, too.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:02 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Well, I want Werner Herzog to do remakes of every film, not just "Bad Lieutenant". Werner Herzog's "Citizen Kane". Werner Herzog's "Roman Holiday", Werner Herzog's "Earthquake!".
Werner Herzog's The Smiling Lieutenant! Werner Herzog's Design for Living!
posted by kenko at 5:13 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Werner Herzog's The Smiling Lieutenant! Werner Herzog's Design for Living!
posted by kenko at 5:13 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Every movie and show where all the animals are male
Like that one about male cows in once saw, Barnyard. Male cows.
there are no male cows!!
One of the my biggest peeves in children's entertainment is the depiction of ants, and bees, and, uh, bees again, and ants once more as having anything more than a token male presence. I want it acknowledged that the male students in The Magic Schoolbus specifically became sterile female bees, damn it.
For the sake of completeness, that Winsor McCay depicted a biting mosquito as male is also irritating. I may or may not be a crackpot.
posted by palindromic at 5:15 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Like that one about male cows in once saw, Barnyard. Male cows.
there are no male cows!!
One of the my biggest peeves in children's entertainment is the depiction of ants, and bees, and, uh, bees again, and ants once more as having anything more than a token male presence. I want it acknowledged that the male students in The Magic Schoolbus specifically became sterile female bees, damn it.
For the sake of completeness, that Winsor McCay depicted a biting mosquito as male is also irritating. I may or may not be a crackpot.
posted by palindromic at 5:15 PM on August 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Werner Herzog's gender-swapped Easter Parade.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:18 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:18 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'd like to see a gender randomised version of The Good Wife, with every character randomly assigned to AMAB or AFAB and randomly assigned to male, female or nonbinary. People will be gender non-conforming with no pattern to it. Oh, and we'll have no idea who is intersex and who isn't either.
I've always thought it would be neat to have a sitcom that every week all the actors randomized and played a different role. The characters were persistent but the actors change.
It would be super great!
posted by winna at 6:34 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I've always thought it would be neat to have a sitcom that every week all the actors randomized and played a different role. The characters were persistent but the actors change.
It would be super great!
posted by winna at 6:34 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Princess Bride!!!!!
“There’s a shortage of perfect wieners in this world. It would be a pity to damage yours.”
posted by a strong female character at 6:38 PM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
“There’s a shortage of perfect wieners in this world. It would be a pity to damage yours.”
posted by a strong female character at 6:38 PM on August 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
I don't have a problem with Hollywood schlock being rebooted and gender swapped and reimagined in various other ways as some sort of fan service. Effectively, if it was made by a committee in the first place, sure. It's a proven formula, and that's one way to reuse it. And it can be an interesting thought experiment.
But some of the movies mentioned there aren't formula schlock, and the idea of rebooting them like they are is just kind of gross and really kind of disrespectful or something.
I get the impulse and it's a laudable one, KIND OF. But how about watching movies that aren't written to blindly conform to gender and other stereotypes in the first place, rather than demanding shitty versions of Blue Velvet and Citizen Kane?
posted by ernielundquist at 6:43 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
But some of the movies mentioned there aren't formula schlock, and the idea of rebooting them like they are is just kind of gross and really kind of disrespectful or something.
I get the impulse and it's a laudable one, KIND OF. But how about watching movies that aren't written to blindly conform to gender and other stereotypes in the first place, rather than demanding shitty versions of Blue Velvet and Citizen Kane?
posted by ernielundquist at 6:43 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yes yes yes oh god yes.
If I were any more enthused about this, I think I'd end up sounding like the 'yes' quote in Ulysses... "... yes I said yes I will Yes."
posted by rmd1023 at 7:26 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
If I were any more enthused about this, I think I'd end up sounding like the 'yes' quote in Ulysses... "... yes I said yes I will Yes."
posted by rmd1023 at 7:26 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Every dance movie where a female ballet dancer and a male street dancer come together to make beautiful love and fusion dancing. (Do something about the racial politics of this too, thanks!)
Taking it back to the top, this could be a remake of Step Up with Channing and Jenna Dewan-Tatum swapping their original roles!
posted by Uncle Ira at 7:30 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Taking it back to the top, this could be a remake of Step Up with Channing and Jenna Dewan-Tatum swapping their original roles!
posted by Uncle Ira at 7:30 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
This gender-swapped version of Ancillary Justice sucks.
posted by schmod at 7:36 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by schmod at 7:36 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Reservoir Dogs:
Ms. Pink: I don't tip because society says I have to. All right, if someone deserves a tip, if they really put forth an effort, I'll give them something a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, it's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned, they're just doing their job.
Ms. Blue: Hey, our boy was nice.
Ms. Pink: He was okay. He wasn't anything special.
Ms. Blue: What's special? Take you in the back and eat you out?
Nice Gal Ellie: I'd go over twelve percent for that.
posted by Kabanos at 7:47 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Ms. Pink: I don't tip because society says I have to. All right, if someone deserves a tip, if they really put forth an effort, I'll give them something a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, it's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned, they're just doing their job.
Ms. Blue: Hey, our boy was nice.
Ms. Pink: He was okay. He wasn't anything special.
Ms. Blue: What's special? Take you in the back and eat you out?
Nice Gal Ellie: I'd go over twelve percent for that.
posted by Kabanos at 7:47 PM on August 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Werner Herzog's gender-swapped Easter Parade.
Soviet tractor films!
posted by octobersurprise at 7:53 PM on August 15, 2016
Soviet tractor films!
posted by octobersurprise at 7:53 PM on August 15, 2016
Kelly Link wrote a great short story about a tv show featuring a crazy inter-dimensional library. I remember that particular characters in the show switched sexes often. It was awesome!
posted by triage_lazarus at 8:06 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by triage_lazarus at 8:06 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Gender swapped Predestination. I dares ya.
posted by quinndexter at 8:33 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by quinndexter at 8:33 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Genderswapped "Zulu".
Genderswapped "Waterloo".
And best of all, genderswapped "300"!
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 8:43 PM on August 15, 2016
Genderswapped "Waterloo".
And best of all, genderswapped "300"!
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 8:43 PM on August 15, 2016
ernielundquist I can't tell if you're being sarcastic.
Are you seriously arguing that only trashy films can be gender flipped? Having primarily female casts makes a great movie no longer great? It is totally impossible to you to imagine how a gender-flipped Blue Velvet or Citizen Kaine could be incredible? Place a woman in a man's role and you no longer have a classic?
..... Seriously?
posted by Cozybee at 8:55 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Are you seriously arguing that only trashy films can be gender flipped? Having primarily female casts makes a great movie no longer great? It is totally impossible to you to imagine how a gender-flipped Blue Velvet or Citizen Kaine could be incredible? Place a woman in a man's role and you no longer have a classic?
..... Seriously?
posted by Cozybee at 8:55 PM on August 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
It is totally impossible to you to imagine how a gender-flipped Blue Velvet or Citizen Kaine could be incredible?
Citizen Kane gets hard to figure when you consider that the character is based very closely on William Randolph Hearst, extremely rich and powerful man who had the world in his hand in the 1920s. No women in an equivalent position come to mind, even now. Which isn't to say that I wouldn't love to see a riff on Citizen Kane that explored someone like Maggie Thatcher or perhaps Martha Stewart.
posted by philip-random at 9:18 PM on August 15, 2016
Citizen Kane gets hard to figure when you consider that the character is based very closely on William Randolph Hearst, extremely rich and powerful man who had the world in his hand in the 1920s. No women in an equivalent position come to mind, even now. Which isn't to say that I wouldn't love to see a riff on Citizen Kane that explored someone like Maggie Thatcher or perhaps Martha Stewart.
posted by philip-random at 9:18 PM on August 15, 2016
Re: Citizen Kane. I suppose the sled would be named "Johnson."
posted by Shmuel510 at 9:26 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Shmuel510 at 9:26 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
“Coat check girl” was the only female casted in the entire, glengarry glen ross film. “The Thing” with Kurt Russell had no women actors at all. I’m beginning to think these films were secretly gendered reversed in a pleasantville bizarro world.
posted by locidot at 9:39 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by locidot at 9:39 PM on August 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Having primarily female casts makes a great movie no longer great?
Yeah I couldn't tell if that was a serious comment either but I really want to defend the idea that gender shifting a work can be an interesting and valuable artistic endeavour in its own right. The reason my mind went straight to The Good Wife was that it's such an excellent TV show about gender and power ... as long as we're talking about cisgendered people (I've only seen the first 5 seasons though). A gender flipped version of TGW would be boring. A gender randomised version could talk about power, politics and gender from a gender diverse perspective in an interesting way. Maybe not to the point of matching the original, but enough to be worthy. Even a single change making Alicia a trans woman would be interesting, but it's a show with enough depth to it that you could do a lot more than that. Less worthy shows wouldn't justify that kind of reimagining.
posted by langtonsant at 10:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah I couldn't tell if that was a serious comment either but I really want to defend the idea that gender shifting a work can be an interesting and valuable artistic endeavour in its own right. The reason my mind went straight to The Good Wife was that it's such an excellent TV show about gender and power ... as long as we're talking about cisgendered people (I've only seen the first 5 seasons though). A gender flipped version of TGW would be boring. A gender randomised version could talk about power, politics and gender from a gender diverse perspective in an interesting way. Maybe not to the point of matching the original, but enough to be worthy. Even a single change making Alicia a trans woman would be interesting, but it's a show with enough depth to it that you could do a lot more than that. Less worthy shows wouldn't justify that kind of reimagining.
posted by langtonsant at 10:01 PM on August 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I think what ernielundquist was suggesting is that there is a difference between remaking a standard genre film that's seen as pure entertainment and remaking a film that's more of an artistic statement or personal vision since you wouldn't have the same filmmakers involved, so the art would unavoidably be diminished and therefore worse no matter how it was recast. Remaking a Tarkovsky film with genders swapped might be interesting in theory, particularly given Tarkovsky's own less than up to date attitude towards women, but without Tarkovsky the resulting film would have little in common with the original other than plot. So it isn't quite the same thing as remaking Real Genius or whatever.
My own view is that the article perhaps doesn't go far enough, how about a gender swapped 4chan or Free Republic too? It would be an undeniable plus for Hollywood films to be more representative of their audiences, but there are also reasons why feminist film theorists haven't just advocated better casting choices but argue for reimagining the way movies are made, why viewing movies as artistic expression is different than thinking of them purely in commodity terms of a product to be designed to fit the prescriptions of the audience, and why talking of Hollywood normalization purely in terms of casting may be missing more than it seems.
Hollywood would unquestionably jump aboard with swapped remakes for as long as they make money so there's nothing radical in the idea for them if it pays off in the end. What is more questionable is whether this would be an actual good thing for anyone involved at some point. It is placing women in a direct comparison to men who were already successful with an original, so placing an extra burden on any woman that would take the roles, even if the success of the film had little to do with them alone.
It ignores all the other normalized elements of Hollywood films, with their weaponized belief in physiognomy, violence as a necessary solution, two dimensional conflicts and characters, and just general essentialization of the world into the simplest possible perspective.
Good for the goose, good for the gander thinking may be fine when something is actually good for the goose, but it isn't at all clear Hollywood has been that for men. There isn't any one to one correlation between shitty male behavior and the way media shows men, but that doesn't mean media isn't informing make behavior in some dire ways, so simply swapping roles would be to take on the possibility that women will "gain" more of the worst behavior of men as well as representation. Not much of a win.
Ernielundquist's point, as I understood it, also matters as prescriptive art isn't art at all, so remaking films at some notion of audience demand is to limit the form in hard to accept ways. It isn't giving a voice to underrepresented audiences as much as it is echoing the already dominant voice of male oriented filmmaking. Favoring remakes over giving people the opportunity to tell their own stories is to still silence them in some ways. Far better to encourage Hollywood to bring on more women and others from marginalized groups to be filmmakers who can make what they want to make than to encourage them to have women to only follow what men have done yet again.
posted by gusottertrout at 11:59 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
My own view is that the article perhaps doesn't go far enough, how about a gender swapped 4chan or Free Republic too? It would be an undeniable plus for Hollywood films to be more representative of their audiences, but there are also reasons why feminist film theorists haven't just advocated better casting choices but argue for reimagining the way movies are made, why viewing movies as artistic expression is different than thinking of them purely in commodity terms of a product to be designed to fit the prescriptions of the audience, and why talking of Hollywood normalization purely in terms of casting may be missing more than it seems.
Hollywood would unquestionably jump aboard with swapped remakes for as long as they make money so there's nothing radical in the idea for them if it pays off in the end. What is more questionable is whether this would be an actual good thing for anyone involved at some point. It is placing women in a direct comparison to men who were already successful with an original, so placing an extra burden on any woman that would take the roles, even if the success of the film had little to do with them alone.
It ignores all the other normalized elements of Hollywood films, with their weaponized belief in physiognomy, violence as a necessary solution, two dimensional conflicts and characters, and just general essentialization of the world into the simplest possible perspective.
Good for the goose, good for the gander thinking may be fine when something is actually good for the goose, but it isn't at all clear Hollywood has been that for men. There isn't any one to one correlation between shitty male behavior and the way media shows men, but that doesn't mean media isn't informing make behavior in some dire ways, so simply swapping roles would be to take on the possibility that women will "gain" more of the worst behavior of men as well as representation. Not much of a win.
Ernielundquist's point, as I understood it, also matters as prescriptive art isn't art at all, so remaking films at some notion of audience demand is to limit the form in hard to accept ways. It isn't giving a voice to underrepresented audiences as much as it is echoing the already dominant voice of male oriented filmmaking. Favoring remakes over giving people the opportunity to tell their own stories is to still silence them in some ways. Far better to encourage Hollywood to bring on more women and others from marginalized groups to be filmmakers who can make what they want to make than to encourage them to have women to only follow what men have done yet again.
posted by gusottertrout at 11:59 PM on August 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Thelma and Louise as long change it to keep the happy ending without wrecking the Cadillac.
There's an 80s movie called Blue De Ville which is Thelma and Louise with a happy ending, a metaphor, and bonus 80s style rock video. It's pretty damn awesome.
posted by Deoridhe at 2:41 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
There's an 80s movie called Blue De Ville which is Thelma and Louise with a happy ending, a metaphor, and bonus 80s style rock video. It's pretty damn awesome.
posted by Deoridhe at 2:41 AM on August 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Now that makes me want a gender-swapped Tombstone.
"I'm your Huckleberry." *licks gun*
posted by teleri025 at 6:47 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
"I'm your Huckleberry." *licks gun*
posted by teleri025 at 6:47 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Glengarry Glen Ross, in which four salespeople, terrorized by a “motivational” trainer, shout at each other and sell shitty real estate. This was performed in 2013 as a live all-female reading with Robin Wright in the Al Pacino role and, perhaps even more interestingly, Mae Whitman in the Kevin Spacey role. Kevin Spacey is great, but I would also be very interested in seeing Mae Whitman reprise all of his roles.
As mentioned above, this happens in the theatre all the time. And Mamet plays are particular ripe for this kind of gender-switched riffing because Mamet is pretty ugh on women. I saw a "Glengarry" production a few months ago that was all-women, not drag, very much women. And it worked pretty well mostly because actors were were good (full disclosure: one of my close friends played the John Williamson/Kevin Spacey role).
Though still not perfect, theatre is lightyears ahead of film/tv when it comes to colorblind/genderblind casting. Obviously Shakespeare, but more generally if you can think of a play, there's probably been a gender-flipped production
posted by thivaia at 6:59 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
As mentioned above, this happens in the theatre all the time. And Mamet plays are particular ripe for this kind of gender-switched riffing because Mamet is pretty ugh on women. I saw a "Glengarry" production a few months ago that was all-women, not drag, very much women. And it worked pretty well mostly because actors were were good (full disclosure: one of my close friends played the John Williamson/Kevin Spacey role).
Though still not perfect, theatre is lightyears ahead of film/tv when it comes to colorblind/genderblind casting. Obviously Shakespeare, but more generally if you can think of a play, there's probably been a gender-flipped production
posted by thivaia at 6:59 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
This thread has led me to the discovery that the linked site's merch page has an entire section of Business Tiaras, which has absolutely made my morning, and for this I thank Metafilter greatly.
posted by Stacey at 7:01 AM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Stacey at 7:01 AM on August 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
gusottertrout explained most of my reasoning, yes. There are a lot of movies that are made by choosing an existing story, then finding a director and having some committee tell them what to do. Citizen Kane isn't one of them. That's not how it was made in the first place, and that's what makes it what it is. You don't make Citizen Kane without Orson Welles, who is dead.
So how would a remake of that movie go? A shot by shot remake, with all the genders swapped? So you leave everything else in--the campaign, the sex scandal, the wives are now husbands--and make it about a wealthy female newspaper magnate in the 1920s? That movie would have to be set in the future or some sort of alternate reality or something.
And think not just about the framing, but everything in the movie. The stag party, all those scenes where Susan is dwarfed by Kane and her surroundings, at the El Rancho, her debut at the opera house, in Xanadu, by proxy when Kane smashes up her room. Those scenes are written for a big lumbering oaf of a man. Trying to translate them, and the rest of the story, for a female protagonist, and at best you've got some kind of cheap parody.
Citizen Kane is absolutely masterful filmmaking. You don't just make that to order.
There is nothing to say that someone can't make a movie about a powerful woman and her decline, but Citizen Kane isn't that movie. You don't make good movies to order like that, by picking a story and plugging in actors to spec.
There is also nothing to say that that movie hasn't been made, actually by and about a woman already. Maybe Larisa Shepitko's Wings. It's not Citizen Kane. It's actually about a woman.
And if you want new German cinema directors, why Herzog? Margarethe von Trotta's around, still working. Hannah Arendt just came out in 2012, an actual movie about an actual woman, not some made to order parody. Herzog is brilliant, but his narrative films have always been pretty man heavy. You want to remake Aguirre and Fitzcarraldo? Why? And what about Fassbinder? He was a man, too, but he always had complicated, well written female characters, and he was brilliant, too. The Bitter Tears of Petra von Kant doesn't have any men at all. And that doesn't need to be gender swapped, either.
So like I said, I get the impulse behind it, and it's interesting as a thought experiment, but that's about it.
How about, instead of plugging women into cheap remakes of movies with male protagonists, you actually watch movies that are by and about women? They already exist, and there are probably plenty of them out there that people are trying to get made.
posted by ernielundquist at 7:34 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
So how would a remake of that movie go? A shot by shot remake, with all the genders swapped? So you leave everything else in--the campaign, the sex scandal, the wives are now husbands--and make it about a wealthy female newspaper magnate in the 1920s? That movie would have to be set in the future or some sort of alternate reality or something.
And think not just about the framing, but everything in the movie. The stag party, all those scenes where Susan is dwarfed by Kane and her surroundings, at the El Rancho, her debut at the opera house, in Xanadu, by proxy when Kane smashes up her room. Those scenes are written for a big lumbering oaf of a man. Trying to translate them, and the rest of the story, for a female protagonist, and at best you've got some kind of cheap parody.
Citizen Kane is absolutely masterful filmmaking. You don't just make that to order.
There is nothing to say that someone can't make a movie about a powerful woman and her decline, but Citizen Kane isn't that movie. You don't make good movies to order like that, by picking a story and plugging in actors to spec.
There is also nothing to say that that movie hasn't been made, actually by and about a woman already. Maybe Larisa Shepitko's Wings. It's not Citizen Kane. It's actually about a woman.
And if you want new German cinema directors, why Herzog? Margarethe von Trotta's around, still working. Hannah Arendt just came out in 2012, an actual movie about an actual woman, not some made to order parody. Herzog is brilliant, but his narrative films have always been pretty man heavy. You want to remake Aguirre and Fitzcarraldo? Why? And what about Fassbinder? He was a man, too, but he always had complicated, well written female characters, and he was brilliant, too. The Bitter Tears of Petra von Kant doesn't have any men at all. And that doesn't need to be gender swapped, either.
So like I said, I get the impulse behind it, and it's interesting as a thought experiment, but that's about it.
How about, instead of plugging women into cheap remakes of movies with male protagonists, you actually watch movies that are by and about women? They already exist, and there are probably plenty of them out there that people are trying to get made.
posted by ernielundquist at 7:34 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Gender-swapped What Women Want would have to be rated X just for language, I think.
posted by fungible at 8:10 AM on August 16, 2016
posted by fungible at 8:10 AM on August 16, 2016
Ernie, you're speaking my language there. Not only with the examples, Wings is absolutely brilliant and von Trotta's relative invisibility is completely unacceptable, but in your solution as well. There are amazing films about women and made by women already out there but people aren't going to see them, they flock to the blockbusters that place women as secondary considerations, at best, instead. It's like saying I want to keep liking the things I like but feel better about it so get Hollywood on the ball so I don't have to actually do anything different myself.
posted by gusottertrout at 8:33 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by gusottertrout at 8:33 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
OH BOOM. I have just solved this thread.
If you make the next great movie with a female protagonist, written for a female protagonist, acknowledging the experiential aspects of gender, such that said female protagonist navigates the world while being and being perceived as a woman, I will eat my shoe.
And you can film it. And because I am a woman, we'll end up with the first movie, out of Column A, and a second one, out of Column B, the female protagonist remake.
Two movies with one stone, and also, I would win the argument because a movie where I had to maintain an audience's interest while cooking and eating a shoe would be boring and terrible.
posted by ernielundquist at 9:06 AM on August 16, 2016
If you make the next great movie with a female protagonist, written for a female protagonist, acknowledging the experiential aspects of gender, such that said female protagonist navigates the world while being and being perceived as a woman, I will eat my shoe.
And you can film it. And because I am a woman, we'll end up with the first movie, out of Column A, and a second one, out of Column B, the female protagonist remake.
Two movies with one stone, and also, I would win the argument because a movie where I had to maintain an audience's interest while cooking and eating a shoe would be boring and terrible.
posted by ernielundquist at 9:06 AM on August 16, 2016
How about, instead of plugging women into cheap remakes of movies with male protagonists, you actually watch movies that are by and about women?
I don't think we have to choose between the two.
Those remakes are gonna get remade. They've been remaking movies since the silent era. There are times in the history of cinema when remakes are heavier on the ground then at other times, and we happen to be living in one of those times.
While totally original material by and for women is wonderful and should be encouraged and made and marketed and succeed, why shouldn't women also benefit from the remake market? (On the screen, behind the camera, in the writers room, in the production offices, and in the boardroom.)
So, if some studio decides they really, really, need to remake say, Heat, Die Hard, or The Warriors, why not let a female director and stars have a crack at it? That won't stop any of them from doing an original piece next time it might even improve their chances of getting greenlit if the cheap remake is successful.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:22 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't think we have to choose between the two.
Those remakes are gonna get remade. They've been remaking movies since the silent era. There are times in the history of cinema when remakes are heavier on the ground then at other times, and we happen to be living in one of those times.
While totally original material by and for women is wonderful and should be encouraged and made and marketed and succeed, why shouldn't women also benefit from the remake market? (On the screen, behind the camera, in the writers room, in the production offices, and in the boardroom.)
So, if some studio decides they really, really, need to remake say, Heat, Die Hard, or The Warriors, why not let a female director and stars have a crack at it? That won't stop any of them from doing an original piece next time it might even improve their chances of getting greenlit if the cheap remake is successful.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:22 AM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
How about, instead of plugging women into cheap remakes of movies with male protagonists, you actually watch movies that are by and about women? They already exist, and there are probably plenty of them out there that people are trying to get made.
I mean, yes, I already watch and enjoy those movies? But you are missing two vital points:
1- Most genderswitched reboots would also be by and about women. (Ghostbusters 2016 may have been directed by Paul Feig, but it was written by Katie Dippold. I find it exasperating that her role as author keeps getting erased.)
2- One of the uniquely luxurious pleasures of genderswitched reboots is witnessing MRAs melt down with cries of HERESY and MY CHILDHOOD and HDUUUUUU. I would watch Citizen Kane starring Ariana Grande in a SECOND if I knew it would make all the anonymous Twitter eggs miserable. My entire life has been spent watching mediocre garbage movies about mediocre garbage male characters. I am so, so ready for all of those movies to be about mediocre garbage ladies. Yes, all.
(Reminder: if a movie makes MRAs angry, it has passed the Furiosa Test. Any movie that passes this test is guaranteed to get my money.)
posted by a fiendish thingy at 10:13 AM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
I mean, yes, I already watch and enjoy those movies? But you are missing two vital points:
1- Most genderswitched reboots would also be by and about women. (Ghostbusters 2016 may have been directed by Paul Feig, but it was written by Katie Dippold. I find it exasperating that her role as author keeps getting erased.)
2- One of the uniquely luxurious pleasures of genderswitched reboots is witnessing MRAs melt down with cries of HERESY and MY CHILDHOOD and HDUUUUUU. I would watch Citizen Kane starring Ariana Grande in a SECOND if I knew it would make all the anonymous Twitter eggs miserable. My entire life has been spent watching mediocre garbage movies about mediocre garbage male characters. I am so, so ready for all of those movies to be about mediocre garbage ladies. Yes, all.
(Reminder: if a movie makes MRAs angry, it has passed the Furiosa Test. Any movie that passes this test is guaranteed to get my money.)
posted by a fiendish thingy at 10:13 AM on August 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
Well, yes, as I said, remakes and reboots are fine. Sometimes, remakes are better than the originals. They're just not right for everything, and some of the things they're very much wrong for are in that article.
But as far as remakes go, it's probably useful to take into account that since men started dominating the film industry, the male gaze has been a fundamental part of the standard, mainstream movie perspective. Hollywood films, for the most part, are built from the ground up from a male perspective. Of course, there is no single male gaze, but there is a default one in film, and it is male.
It can be interesting to see that sort of inverted and played as a female gaze, but it's also weird and it also sort of propagates this notion that women and their experiences and perspectives are just mirrored versions of men's. And remaking movies about men simply to recast them to be about women just reinforces the still very common notion that women's stuff is just like a watered down, suboptimal version of men's stuff. Especially when the 'men stuff' is particularly well done. The whole Citizen Kane idea is just abysmal, if for no other reason than that. That movie is too good to remake, period. Remaking it with a female protagonist would taint the female protagonist and to an extent female protagonists as a whole. It's just an awful idea.
There are female gazes on film, in many different variants. Some are pretty groundbreaking, like Chantal Ackerman's Jeanne Dielman. Most are closer to the model of what audiences expect a film to be, but none of the well done ones are just simplistic inversions of the male gaze.
So yeah, I don't care about mainstream Hollywood style movies where a studio purchases a franchise or a character or whatever, then makes some movie to spec based on committee decisions and focus groups and stuff. Whatever. Those movies are never very innovative, they all follow well known formulas, and there's absolutely no reason not to plug female protagonists into those formulas. Hell, it's probably a good idea, since we're not going to be abolishing the formulas themselves for a while, at least that's some little variation.
But it is little. It's still the standard Hollywood male gaze and the standard Hollywood formulas that came to fruition since the industry became male dominated. Plugging women into roles written for and associated with men doesn't kill the patriarchy. And pretending that sexism doesn't exist, which is what a straight gender swap would have to do, doesn't make it go away.
posted by ernielundquist at 10:31 AM on August 16, 2016
But as far as remakes go, it's probably useful to take into account that since men started dominating the film industry, the male gaze has been a fundamental part of the standard, mainstream movie perspective. Hollywood films, for the most part, are built from the ground up from a male perspective. Of course, there is no single male gaze, but there is a default one in film, and it is male.
It can be interesting to see that sort of inverted and played as a female gaze, but it's also weird and it also sort of propagates this notion that women and their experiences and perspectives are just mirrored versions of men's. And remaking movies about men simply to recast them to be about women just reinforces the still very common notion that women's stuff is just like a watered down, suboptimal version of men's stuff. Especially when the 'men stuff' is particularly well done. The whole Citizen Kane idea is just abysmal, if for no other reason than that. That movie is too good to remake, period. Remaking it with a female protagonist would taint the female protagonist and to an extent female protagonists as a whole. It's just an awful idea.
There are female gazes on film, in many different variants. Some are pretty groundbreaking, like Chantal Ackerman's Jeanne Dielman. Most are closer to the model of what audiences expect a film to be, but none of the well done ones are just simplistic inversions of the male gaze.
So yeah, I don't care about mainstream Hollywood style movies where a studio purchases a franchise or a character or whatever, then makes some movie to spec based on committee decisions and focus groups and stuff. Whatever. Those movies are never very innovative, they all follow well known formulas, and there's absolutely no reason not to plug female protagonists into those formulas. Hell, it's probably a good idea, since we're not going to be abolishing the formulas themselves for a while, at least that's some little variation.
But it is little. It's still the standard Hollywood male gaze and the standard Hollywood formulas that came to fruition since the industry became male dominated. Plugging women into roles written for and associated with men doesn't kill the patriarchy. And pretending that sexism doesn't exist, which is what a straight gender swap would have to do, doesn't make it go away.
posted by ernielundquist at 10:31 AM on August 16, 2016
Genderswap The Thing. Leslie Jones as Childs (and she's the lead!), Aubrey Plaza as MacReady, Kathy Bates as Blair.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:43 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:43 AM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
agreed about the gender-swapped silence of the lambs. Too many male serial killers starring in our fiction.
posted by some loser at 10:57 AM on August 16, 2016
posted by some loser at 10:57 AM on August 16, 2016
In a lot of ways, gender-swapped "Silence of the Lambs" is "Basic Instinct." (A movie that is a lot smarter about gender than people give it credit for.)
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 12:38 PM on August 16, 2016
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 12:38 PM on August 16, 2016
Just saying: Midnight Run. Fantastic buddy flick. The mind boggles at the casting possibilities for DeNiro, Grodin, and Kotto.
posted by bluejayway at 2:31 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by bluejayway at 2:31 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
How about a gender-swapped 3 Men And A Baby except the baby is a 90 year-old man and the movie is a super-depressing meditation on women being trapped between childcare and eldercare.
posted by GuyZero at 3:00 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 3:00 PM on August 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I would really like to see "Some Like it Hot" gender-swapped. Melissa McCarthy in the Bob Hope role, Angelina Jolie as Tony Curtis, and Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson in Marilyn Monroe's role?? Perhaps with Salma Heyek as The Admirer? It would be a hot, hot mess.
posted by ninazer0 at 3:43 PM on August 16, 2016
posted by ninazer0 at 3:43 PM on August 16, 2016
A gender-swapped Dukes of Hazard would be good, an A-Team would be great. There are a lot of ensemble movies and TV that can be flipped pretty easily.
posted by Mitheral at 4:43 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 4:43 PM on August 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
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Apropos of nothing, if Ryan Lochte doesn't have a merman cameo in the Channing Tatum Splash, I don't even know why people in Hollywood get paid anything.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:12 PM on August 15, 2016 [23 favorites]