These products will no longer be sold under misleading marketing.
September 2, 2016 10:22 AM Subscribe
The FDA has banned antibacterial soaps. Manufacturers have one year to pull products containing any of 19 chemicals, including the common triclosan and triclocarbon, found in many liquid and bar antibacterial soaps. Recent studies have suggested that soap containing these chemicals is no better at getting you clean, and might actually be harmful to the environment and your body.
Wow, that's great! The scientific evidence that triclosan is awful for aquatic organisms has been pretty conclusive for quite some time, but I still expected it to remain a consumer staple for years to come. Here's to plain old soap!
posted by ldthomps at 10:27 AM on September 2, 2016 [44 favorites]
posted by ldthomps at 10:27 AM on September 2, 2016 [44 favorites]
When will they ban anti-bacterial cattle feed?
posted by Nelson at 10:31 AM on September 2, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 10:31 AM on September 2, 2016 [26 favorites]
The antibacterial soap thing I think is fantastic. What I found interesting though was the reference to benzalkonium chloride, later. Is there a question of that in relation to things like Bactine, or is it only in the context of use in soaps, body washes, shampoos, etc? I've only ever seen it in antiseptic first-aid products, and I'm going to have some feelings about having that dumped over a lot of scrapes as a child if it turns out it wasn't actually helping prevent infection.
posted by Sequence at 10:31 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Sequence at 10:31 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, I assume this doesn't extend to toothpaste, which also commonly has triclosan.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 10:33 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by C'est la D.C. at 10:33 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Definitely a good step, though it may be too little, too late as far as stopping the spread of antibiotic-resistance in bacteria.
posted by tobascodagama at 10:40 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by tobascodagama at 10:40 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
It says it doesn't apply to hand sanitizers and wipes so I would assume the ban doesn't apply to medicines (antibacterial creams and whatnot)...I'm guessing the real issue here is acute dose (putting antibiotic cream on a cut, for example, high dose, once in a while) vs. chronic use (slathering yourself with antiseptic soap all the damn time, low dose, constantly), the latter being much more effective at conferring antibiotic resistance to bacteria, both on the body and in the environment.
Good move, FDA.
posted by sexyrobot at 10:43 AM on September 2, 2016 [13 favorites]
Good move, FDA.
posted by sexyrobot at 10:43 AM on September 2, 2016 [13 favorites]
Sequence, I don't think there's any doubt that benzalkonium chloride and other quats are pretty effective biocides. It's more of a question of safety, and if quats+soap+water is more effective for handwashing than just soap+water.
posted by ryanrs at 10:44 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 10:44 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's more of a question of safety, and if quats+soap+water is more effective for handwashing than just soap+water.
And whether using quats+soap+water for handwashing every time you wash your hands for years, and everybody else doing that too, just means bacteria evolve and get used to constant low-grade exposure, and quats stop working at all.
posted by kafziel at 10:48 AM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
And whether using quats+soap+water for handwashing every time you wash your hands for years, and everybody else doing that too, just means bacteria evolve and get used to constant low-grade exposure, and quats stop working at all.
posted by kafziel at 10:48 AM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
This is like 10 years too late, though. I understand the FDA moves slowly, but still.
Oh well. As someone who somehow manages to accidentally buy antibacterial soap on occasion I support this.
posted by quaking fajita at 10:50 AM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]
Oh well. As someone who somehow manages to accidentally buy antibacterial soap on occasion I support this.
posted by quaking fajita at 10:50 AM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]
I sent that link to my mother in law so fast I thought my keyboard might catch on fire. She's a nurse and I've been having the "antibacterial soap is no more effective than regular soap in a home setting and it does more harm than good" argument with her for years. YEARS.
posted by lydhre at 10:59 AM on September 2, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 10:59 AM on September 2, 2016 [22 favorites]
Soap IS antibacterial, but marketing won that battle years ago.
posted by corvikate at 11:09 AM on September 2, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by corvikate at 11:09 AM on September 2, 2016 [17 favorites]
Good idea, but it is worth remembering that a lot of these were developed in response to the FDA restricting the use of hexachlorophene in1972; there are plenty of other chemicals out there for them to put in soap. Here's hoping they will be required to show they are safe and effective before they get to the marketing department. (I remember the smell of pHisoHex like it was yesterday; my mother thought it was the best soap ever. But we managed to do just fine without it after '72.)
posted by TedW at 11:11 AM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by TedW at 11:11 AM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
It says it doesn't apply to hand sanitizers and wipes
That's really too bad. We should be going to only the alcohol-based ones only in my opinion. Quats can cause allergic reactions in some people, tryclosan is ecologically persistant, and benzalkonium chloride is associated with bacterial drug resistance. The 60% to 70% isopropanol or ethanol gels have been found to be better than hand washing too, so there is a benefit to using them for germ killing.
posted by bonehead at 11:14 AM on September 2, 2016 [11 favorites]
That's really too bad. We should be going to only the alcohol-based ones only in my opinion. Quats can cause allergic reactions in some people, tryclosan is ecologically persistant, and benzalkonium chloride is associated with bacterial drug resistance. The 60% to 70% isopropanol or ethanol gels have been found to be better than hand washing too, so there is a benefit to using them for germ killing.
posted by bonehead at 11:14 AM on September 2, 2016 [11 favorites]
I am very pleased by this, and also by learning the term quat today.
posted by drlith at 11:17 AM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by drlith at 11:17 AM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
Triclosan is also commonly found in deodorant, which my armpits found out the hard way.
posted by blucevalo at 11:23 AM on September 2, 2016
posted by blucevalo at 11:23 AM on September 2, 2016
The alcohol ones though are hell if your work results in microabrasions on your hands.
posted by Mitheral at 11:23 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 11:23 AM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
Palmolive Green 4eva
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:24 AM on September 2, 2016
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:24 AM on September 2, 2016
Now if we could just guide people to stop using fabreze/glade "fresheners" and smelly gain detergents.
Than how do I get my home/office smelling fresh? Answer: ozone
What is a wash soap alternative? Answer: country save
posted by robbyrobs at 11:26 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Than how do I get my home/office smelling fresh? Answer: ozone
What is a wash soap alternative? Answer: country save
posted by robbyrobs at 11:26 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
She's a nurse and I've been having the "antibacterial soap is no more effective than regular soap in a home setting and it does more harm than good" argument with her for years.
funny! my mom is a nurse and has been preaching the gospel of "antibacterial soap is bad and useless at home" ever since i was a little kid. takes all kinds i guess
posted by burgerrr at 11:32 AM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
funny! my mom is a nurse and has been preaching the gospel of "antibacterial soap is bad and useless at home" ever since i was a little kid. takes all kinds i guess
posted by burgerrr at 11:32 AM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
I am very pleased by this, and also by learning the term quat today.
I'm gonna go pop a quat right now.
posted by dudemanlives at 11:32 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm gonna go pop a quat right now.
posted by dudemanlives at 11:32 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well, shit. I think I'm screwed. After years and years (read decades) of skin issues, my dermatologist suggested I use a cleanser with 0.5% Triclosan as the active ingredient. I was reluctant to try it (for all the reasons people cited above), but I did. And remarkably it helps. Significantly. Sadly, the particular brand recommended has been discontinued, but a pharmacist helped me find something similar as a replacement. I know I'm not in the States, but if Americans stop manufacturing it, it will definitely become harder come by here. I guess I'd better go stock up.
posted by sardonyx at 11:32 AM on September 2, 2016
posted by sardonyx at 11:32 AM on September 2, 2016
Does this mean we'll get liquid soaps that aren't anti-bacterial?
Liquid soap is much easier to use with kids, but finding non triclosan versions is impossible around here.
posted by madajb at 11:33 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Liquid soap is much easier to use with kids, but finding non triclosan versions is impossible around here.
posted by madajb at 11:33 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Please don't use an ozone generator.
posted by blnkfrnk at 11:38 AM on September 2, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by blnkfrnk at 11:38 AM on September 2, 2016 [17 favorites]
Now if we could just guide people to stop using fabreze/glade "fresheners" and smelly gain detergents.
Than how do I get my home/office smelling fresh? Answer: ozone
I was intrigued by this suggestions, since my partner purchases fabreze by the case and uses it liberally. But some quick Googling suggested ozone actually is not a good alternative.
EPA says no to ozone generators sold as air cleaners
robbyrobs, are you talking about some other kind of product, or do you disagree with the EPA's conclusions?
posted by layceepee at 11:39 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Than how do I get my home/office smelling fresh? Answer: ozone
I was intrigued by this suggestions, since my partner purchases fabreze by the case and uses it liberally. But some quick Googling suggested ozone actually is not a good alternative.
EPA says no to ozone generators sold as air cleaners
robbyrobs, are you talking about some other kind of product, or do you disagree with the EPA's conclusions?
posted by layceepee at 11:39 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
What if I drink it instead of putting in on my hands. As that still a no-go?
posted by SpacemanStix at 11:39 AM on September 2, 2016
posted by SpacemanStix at 11:39 AM on September 2, 2016
Just a heads up: Colgate Total contains triclosan. I think it's unique in that regard; I don't think any other toothpaste brands (including other non-Total brands under Colgate) contain triclosan. The current FDA statement doesn't seem to address toothpastes, though. The most recent American Dental Association statement on triclosan appears to be from 2014 and reads basically like a "no enough evidence of danger at this time, but we'll keep an eye on the situation" thing.
posted by mhum at 11:46 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by mhum at 11:46 AM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
I am very pleased by this, and also by learning the term quat today.
I bid 50 quatloos on the newcomer!
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:47 AM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]
I bid 50 quatloos on the newcomer!
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:47 AM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]
quaternary ammonium cation
I will now proceed to have an hour of my life sucked up reading labels and googling chemicals. Thank the big model railroader in the sky it's friday!
posted by bukvich at 11:55 AM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
I will now proceed to have an hour of my life sucked up reading labels and googling chemicals. Thank the big model railroader in the sky it's friday!
posted by bukvich at 11:55 AM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
Sardonyx, don't know what country you are in, but perhaps you can look for a compounding pharmacist, who might be able to make a triclosan-containing soap for you. My guess he/she would dissolve the triclosan powder in alcohol or propylene glycol and then incorporate that into a liquid soap...
posted by bitteroldman at 12:12 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by bitteroldman at 12:12 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
This is great news. A friend of mine wrote her dissertation on the endocrine disrupting effects of triclosan. Short version, even in low doses not considered toxic, it screws with your thyroid hormones. I asked her how worried I should be about using antibiotic soap, and her response was basically, "You don't have to worry about the exposure you get from your hand soap. You have to worry about the exposure you get from everyone's hand soap." That is, acute doses aren't that big a deal, but the small, chronic dose we all get from is being everywhere in the environment is concerning. This is a huge step in fixing that problem.
posted by biogeo at 12:13 PM on September 2, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 12:13 PM on September 2, 2016 [9 favorites]
Now if we could just guide people to stop using fabreze/glade "fresheners" and smelly gain detergents.
The original formulation of Febreze was unscented; the ghastly scents were added after the unscented version was a huge market failure.
posted by maudlin at 12:35 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
The original formulation of Febreze was unscented; the ghastly scents were added after the unscented version was a huge market failure.
The reason Febreze wasn’t selling, the marketers realized, was that people couldn’t detect most of the bad smells in their lives. If you live with nine cats, you become desensitized to their scents. If you smoke cigarettes, eventually you don’t smell smoke anymore. Even the strongest odors fade with constant exposure. That’s why Febreze was a failure. The product’s cue — the bad smells that were supposed to trigger daily use — was hidden from the people who needed it the most. And Febreze’s reward (an odorless home) was meaningless to someone who couldn’t smell offensive scents in the first place.You can still get an unscented "fabric refresher" from them, but not a room spray.
posted by maudlin at 12:35 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
I finally broke my husband of his ungodly febreze habit. I think few things smell worse than poop layered with fake florals.
posted by lydhre at 12:40 PM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 12:40 PM on September 2, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yeah the unscented Febreeze is fantastic, but for a non-stinky house an air purifier with a HEPA filter is a magical device.
They're dirt cheap these days considering how useful they are.
posted by winna at 12:40 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
They're dirt cheap these days considering how useful they are.
posted by winna at 12:40 PM on September 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
bitteroldman
I'll keep that in mind. Of course the nearest competent compounding pharmacy is in the next city over (learned that through experience after a relative needed something compounded--you wouldn't believe the challenge in getting that seemingly basic prescription filled). In my case, I think it's more than the active ingredient that makes it work for me in my circumstances, but it's something I'll keep in the back of my mind.
posted by sardonyx at 1:06 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'll keep that in mind. Of course the nearest competent compounding pharmacy is in the next city over (learned that through experience after a relative needed something compounded--you wouldn't believe the challenge in getting that seemingly basic prescription filled). In my case, I think it's more than the active ingredient that makes it work for me in my circumstances, but it's something I'll keep in the back of my mind.
posted by sardonyx at 1:06 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Holy crap my wet ass-wipes have quaternium-15 (systematic name: hexamethylenetetramine chloroallyl chloride) on the ingredients list.
:(
posted by bukvich at 1:25 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
:(
posted by bukvich at 1:25 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Great. Antibacterial Palmolive keeps my dish washing sponges from getting stinky.
Time to stock up, just like I did with lightbulbs.
posted by gsh at 2:52 PM on September 2, 2016
Time to stock up, just like I did with lightbulbs.
posted by gsh at 2:52 PM on September 2, 2016
Now they just have to ban polymer microbeads.
posted by GuyZero at 2:58 PM on September 2, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 2:58 PM on September 2, 2016 [13 favorites]
About damn time! No one needs polymer microbe ads either. Cornmeal, ground almond shells, salt, baking soda and sugar are all less damaging to the environment and effective.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 3:23 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 3:23 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Liquid soap is much easier to use with kids, but finding non triclosan versions is impossible around here.
Dr. Bronner's castile soap. It may be more watery than you're used to, and doesn't play nicely with pump dispensers, but just get the regular bottle in whatever scent you like. You only need a little so it lasts, and the kids can practice reading the wacked-out label.
Antibacterial Palmolive keeps my dish washing sponges from getting stinky.
So would sticking them in a bowl full of water spiked with some vinegar and microwaving them on High for about a minute. However, vinegar does not contribute to drug-resistant bacteria, whereas...
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:03 PM on September 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
Re-using a Method foaming pump dispenser with Bronner's and water works okay.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:09 PM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:09 PM on September 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
it may be too little, too late as far as stopping the spread of antibiotic-resistance in bacteria.
For the environment, it's too little, too late all the way down. In my darker hours, I suspect that it's policy.
posted by Twang at 5:19 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
For the environment, it's too little, too late all the way down. In my darker hours, I suspect that it's policy.
posted by Twang at 5:19 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
So would sticking them in a bowl full of water spiked with some vinegar and microwaving them on High for about a minute.
Lemon juice is good too; rather than use a bowl I just soak the sponge and zap it for 2-3 minutes. Let cool enough to handle then you have a clean sponge and the microwave can be wiped clean from the spaghetti sauce (or whatever) you reheated earlier and be left lemony fresh.
According to either Dr. Bronner's website or label (but I can't find it on either right now) dilute it 4:1 water:soap for foaming dispensers; normal liquid soap is 5:1. I thought it should be less but it works great. I don't have a problem with the straight soap in a lot of liquid dispensers, but they are so cheaply made for the most part that it is a crapshoot whether they work with anything for more than a few months. (I am annoyed that the cheap and ugly dispenser I bought 20+ years ago still works while the nice designer version I bought along with a soap dish, trash can, etc 5 years ago lasted less than 2 years.)
posted by TedW at 5:33 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Lemon juice is good too; rather than use a bowl I just soak the sponge and zap it for 2-3 minutes. Let cool enough to handle then you have a clean sponge and the microwave can be wiped clean from the spaghetti sauce (or whatever) you reheated earlier and be left lemony fresh.
According to either Dr. Bronner's website or label (but I can't find it on either right now) dilute it 4:1 water:soap for foaming dispensers; normal liquid soap is 5:1. I thought it should be less but it works great. I don't have a problem with the straight soap in a lot of liquid dispensers, but they are so cheaply made for the most part that it is a crapshoot whether they work with anything for more than a few months. (I am annoyed that the cheap and ugly dispenser I bought 20+ years ago still works while the nice designer version I bought along with a soap dish, trash can, etc 5 years ago lasted less than 2 years.)
posted by TedW at 5:33 PM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Now they just have to ban polymer microbeads.
posted by GuyZero
Microbeads to be banned in the UK by the end of next year.
posted by Devonian at 5:49 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by GuyZero
Microbeads to be banned in the UK by the end of next year.
posted by Devonian at 5:49 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Somewhere on K Street, a lobbyist just got fired for this.
posted by Fupped Duck at 6:04 PM on September 2, 2016
posted by Fupped Duck at 6:04 PM on September 2, 2016
There are plenty of US liquid hand soaps that are not antibacterial now, though they all spring one on you when you least expect it so you have to triple-check the label. Most of Method's hand soaps and foams, Mrs. Meyers (so I can continue to enjoy my hoard of Limited Edition Lilac), Seventh Generation, two out of the three at Trader Joe's I think. Softsoap has at least one, I know the unscented one isn't. Dial only has one that isn't, last I looked.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:22 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Lyn Never at 6:22 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
robbyrobs, are you talking about some other kind of product, or do you disagree with the EPA's conclusions?
Anecdotally they do seem to have some value if your objective is to neutralize odors (not to "clean air" whatever that means). There are a lot of limitations on safe use though - my reading suggests the actual half-life in air may not be nearly as short as manufacturers like to state - so it's probably not something you want to use very regularly and I won't claim I've seen tons of actual research on its effectiveness either.
posted by atoxyl at 6:57 PM on September 2, 2016
Anecdotally they do seem to have some value if your objective is to neutralize odors (not to "clean air" whatever that means). There are a lot of limitations on safe use though - my reading suggests the actual half-life in air may not be nearly as short as manufacturers like to state - so it's probably not something you want to use very regularly and I won't claim I've seen tons of actual research on its effectiveness either.
posted by atoxyl at 6:57 PM on September 2, 2016
Ok, look, health workers who are decently educated have known this forever. You wash your hands with soap and use friction which is what actually gets the bacteria off. My mom has been a health worker since the days before gloves and they just jammed their hands in people's bodies to stop bleeds or do surgery or deliver a baby. They learned hygiene as rote and would wash their hands 70 times a day and scrub under their nails and their hands and forearms with an autoclaved scrub brush.
Antibacterial soap and jelly does jack. It just makes YOU sick because it (as stated) kills the good flora you naturally have. Cdif and MERSA come from this.
I never use the squirt foam junk they have in rooms in the hospital, I just wash my hands well and wear gloves. You move room to room and just trust the disinfectant spray? Please. If you're starting an IV on me, I will watch you wash your hands the right way.
posted by syncope at 7:23 PM on September 2, 2016
Antibacterial soap and jelly does jack. It just makes YOU sick because it (as stated) kills the good flora you naturally have. Cdif and MERSA come from this.
I never use the squirt foam junk they have in rooms in the hospital, I just wash my hands well and wear gloves. You move room to room and just trust the disinfectant spray? Please. If you're starting an IV on me, I will watch you wash your hands the right way.
posted by syncope at 7:23 PM on September 2, 2016
Great. Antibacterial Palmolive keeps my dish washing sponges from getting stinky.
I might gently suggest that since you now know this stuff is genuinely bad for both people and the environment, stocking up on it just so you can have better smelling sponges is perhaps not the best thing for the commonweal? Boiling the sponges will also keep them non-smelly and takes all of five minutes.
posted by holborne at 7:49 PM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
I might gently suggest that since you now know this stuff is genuinely bad for both people and the environment, stocking up on it just so you can have better smelling sponges is perhaps not the best thing for the commonweal? Boiling the sponges will also keep them non-smelly and takes all of five minutes.
posted by holborne at 7:49 PM on September 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
@bluecevalo
Under arm deodorant = baking soda. Half teaspoon in your palm, a few drops of water to make a paste, and slap it on there. You're good to go.
posted by maniabug at 8:16 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Under arm deodorant = baking soda. Half teaspoon in your palm, a few drops of water to make a paste, and slap it on there. You're good to go.
posted by maniabug at 8:16 PM on September 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Canadians who want regular liquid soap without antibacterial ingredients can get 1.9L of SpaSoap at Dollarama for $2.
posted by maudlin at 8:33 PM on September 2, 2016
posted by maudlin at 8:33 PM on September 2, 2016
Full inventory complete now. Soap, shampoo, hair conditioner, shaving cream, skin moisturizer, sunscreen, dish soap, laundry detergent, three surface cleansers. Wet ass wipes.
The only quats in my apartment are in my wet ass wipes. They are house brand and the label says Baby Wipes. They are engineered to wipe off baby anuses, penises, and vaginas. If you asked me yesterday what was the most benign item here I would have nominated the baby wipes near the top.
posted by bukvich at 1:19 AM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
The only quats in my apartment are in my wet ass wipes. They are house brand and the label says Baby Wipes. They are engineered to wipe off baby anuses, penises, and vaginas. If you asked me yesterday what was the most benign item here I would have nominated the baby wipes near the top.
posted by bukvich at 1:19 AM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have asthma, and most artificial scents kick it up something fierce. So, I needed a soap solution I could take with me - and fast.
I came up with this: A glass perfume roller bottle, filled with Dr. Bronners Unscented Baby Soap. The key is to fill the perfume roller with *undiluted* liquid soap. Then, whenever you need to wash your hands, roll some on soap, put some water on your hands, and wash away! The warning is that the perfume bottles are glass, so they can and will break when dropped; I've shattered a couple that way. However, they also don't leak at all, and since I don't wear a purse, I just keep a small vial in my front pants pocket.
When empty, refill.
posted by spinifex23 at 1:54 AM on September 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
I came up with this: A glass perfume roller bottle, filled with Dr. Bronners Unscented Baby Soap. The key is to fill the perfume roller with *undiluted* liquid soap. Then, whenever you need to wash your hands, roll some on soap, put some water on your hands, and wash away! The warning is that the perfume bottles are glass, so they can and will break when dropped; I've shattered a couple that way. However, they also don't leak at all, and since I don't wear a purse, I just keep a small vial in my front pants pocket.
When empty, refill.
posted by spinifex23 at 1:54 AM on September 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
I wonder where the dividing line is going to be between consumer use and in-hospital use. As part of prep for major surgery a (different) relative was instructed to to wash the night before using a product whose active ingredient was Chlorhexidine gluconate, which is on the banned list for consumer products but which is okay for clinical use. Like the stuff I use, this was purchased OTC in a pharmacy. Okay, it wasn't sitting on the shelf next to the regular hand soap or dish detergent, but it certainly wasn't anything that was specially compounded.
posted by sardonyx at 5:10 AM on September 3, 2016
posted by sardonyx at 5:10 AM on September 3, 2016
Dear lord do not buy an ozone generator. I recently bought one off ebay for about $50 without doing the proper research. Many years ago in college a friend had a malfunctioning neon sign transformer that made an ozone smell which was pleasant, so I figured it would be a good idea.
They all say they are for unoccupied spaces, and I heeded the warnings by running it in a room with the door closed. I knew after about 5 minutes of receiving it that I'd made a mistake. These things pump that shit out at unbelievable levels, and the model I got wasn't even the most powerful. It smells like instant death, like breathing in pure lung melting acid, even if you're not in the closed space where it runs. Imagine the scent of a room full of photocopiers, but multiplied by a thousand. Sure, maybe it's supposed to be used for a whole house and not just one room, but I don't think it matters. Even long after it was turned off there was putrid lingering stench.
And then I found out that ozone eats rubber and plastic materials for breakfast, which was the nail in the coffin, because I don't know about you but I like my butyl/rubber to remain intact (e.g. o-rings, grippy handles, etc.)
As far as I can tell, the only legitimate use for an ozone machine is if your house has been halfway burned down and you have extreme smoke smell. For everyday odors don't bother. The march of technology has apparently made it possible to produce ozone at staggering concentrations and it is not even remotely pleasant to be around. Don't make a $50 mistake like I did.
posted by Otto Franz Joseph Leopold von Soxen-Puppetten at 6:32 AM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
They all say they are for unoccupied spaces, and I heeded the warnings by running it in a room with the door closed. I knew after about 5 minutes of receiving it that I'd made a mistake. These things pump that shit out at unbelievable levels, and the model I got wasn't even the most powerful. It smells like instant death, like breathing in pure lung melting acid, even if you're not in the closed space where it runs. Imagine the scent of a room full of photocopiers, but multiplied by a thousand. Sure, maybe it's supposed to be used for a whole house and not just one room, but I don't think it matters. Even long after it was turned off there was putrid lingering stench.
And then I found out that ozone eats rubber and plastic materials for breakfast, which was the nail in the coffin, because I don't know about you but I like my butyl/rubber to remain intact (e.g. o-rings, grippy handles, etc.)
As far as I can tell, the only legitimate use for an ozone machine is if your house has been halfway burned down and you have extreme smoke smell. For everyday odors don't bother. The march of technology has apparently made it possible to produce ozone at staggering concentrations and it is not even remotely pleasant to be around. Don't make a $50 mistake like I did.
posted by Otto Franz Joseph Leopold von Soxen-Puppetten at 6:32 AM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Ozone generators are wizard for getting the smell of fish that has been left in an unplugged fridge out of a fridge.
Like the smell of leaded gas exhaust out of large lap big block I love the smell of Ozone. It makes me all nostalgic for my first laser printer; an original HP LaserJet that would dim the lights in a shitty college apartment when you switched it on.
posted by Mitheral at 9:11 AM on September 3, 2016
Like the smell of leaded gas exhaust out of large lap big block I love the smell of Ozone. It makes me all nostalgic for my first laser printer; an original HP LaserJet that would dim the lights in a shitty college apartment when you switched it on.
posted by Mitheral at 9:11 AM on September 3, 2016
Microbeads were listed as a toxic substance in Canada this summer.
posted by bonehead at 9:33 AM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 9:33 AM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Almost a year ago California passed Assembly Bill No. 888 banning plastic microbeads. It has a long phase out period; it will be fully effective January 1, 2020.
For personal care products, where California goes, so goes all US nationally-focused brands. (See also Prop 65, CARB VOC limits, and so on). So while not quite a national ban, it will be nearly as effective as one.
posted by mountmccabe at 9:52 AM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
For personal care products, where California goes, so goes all US nationally-focused brands. (See also Prop 65, CARB VOC limits, and so on). So while not quite a national ban, it will be nearly as effective as one.
posted by mountmccabe at 9:52 AM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I will now proceed to have an hour of my life sucked up reading labels and googling chemicals.
This is literally my job.
posted by mountmccabe at 9:52 AM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is literally my job.
posted by mountmccabe at 9:52 AM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I wonder where the dividing line is going to be between consumer use and in-hospital use. As part of prep for major surgery a (different) relative was instructed to to wash the night before using a product whose active ingredient was Chlorhexidine gluconate, which is on the banned list for consumer products but which is okay for clinical use. Like the stuff I use, this was purchased OTC in a pharmacy. Okay, it wasn't sitting on the shelf next to the regular hand soap or dish detergent, but it certainly wasn't anything that was specially compounded.
There are a lot of Chlorhexidine gluconate products that are not "consumer antiseptic wash products." [DailyMed has a searchable index of drug listings as provided to the FDA. You can search by active ingredient, NDC (10-digit, 3-segment code on the packaging), trade name, etc].
The first result from the linked search has its purposes listed as
"surgical hand scrub
healthcare personnel handwash
patient preoperative skin preparation
skin wound and general skin cleansing"
Similarly, the directions are long and involved compared to what you'd get for a hand soap (which is all this final rule covers):
Directions for the first use (of those four):
Surgical hand scrub
- wet hands and forearms under running water for 30 seconds
- scrub for 3 minutes with about 5 mL of product with or without a wet brush, paying close attention to the nails, cuticles and interdigital spaces
-rinse thoroughly under running water for 30 seconds dry thoroughly
Compare those to this Cranberry Cream Antibacterial Hand Wash (with triclosan; I didn't see any hand soaps with Chlorhexidine gluconate*). A very different use ("For handwashing to decrease bacteria on the skin") and one-line directions ("Wet hands. Apply palmful to hands and forearms. Scrub thoroughly. Rinse and repeat. Dry thoroughly").
The 19 chemicals banned from consumer hand soaps can be effective ingredients, but not with the time they are left on hands during normal (consumer) hand washing. The reasoning is about ineffectiveness, not about superbugs. Though the political will that allowed/will allow this to move forward will have more to do with superbugs.
The purposes, uses, directions, all the other sections are part of the drug listing required for every OTC product. If the FDA finds this product is being marketed differently from how it is listed, they can issue warning letters, and eventually take action (seizing the product, fines, etc).
So a product listed as a surgical hand wash (another random example) can stay on the market. But antibacterial melon soap cannot. People could buy the allowed products and use them off-label, but by and large people are going to buy things called and marketed as soap to use as soap.
Note: I have no involvement with any of the linked products.
* There may not be any. But if only triclosan was banned, manufacturers would switch to the others and they would similarly be ineffective with the directions provided and expected usage.
posted by mountmccabe at 10:46 AM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
There are a lot of Chlorhexidine gluconate products that are not "consumer antiseptic wash products." [DailyMed has a searchable index of drug listings as provided to the FDA. You can search by active ingredient, NDC (10-digit, 3-segment code on the packaging), trade name, etc].
The first result from the linked search has its purposes listed as
"surgical hand scrub
healthcare personnel handwash
patient preoperative skin preparation
skin wound and general skin cleansing"
Similarly, the directions are long and involved compared to what you'd get for a hand soap (which is all this final rule covers):
Directions for the first use (of those four):
Surgical hand scrub
- wet hands and forearms under running water for 30 seconds
- scrub for 3 minutes with about 5 mL of product with or without a wet brush, paying close attention to the nails, cuticles and interdigital spaces
-rinse thoroughly under running water for 30 seconds dry thoroughly
Compare those to this Cranberry Cream Antibacterial Hand Wash (with triclosan; I didn't see any hand soaps with Chlorhexidine gluconate*). A very different use ("For handwashing to decrease bacteria on the skin") and one-line directions ("Wet hands. Apply palmful to hands and forearms. Scrub thoroughly. Rinse and repeat. Dry thoroughly").
The 19 chemicals banned from consumer hand soaps can be effective ingredients, but not with the time they are left on hands during normal (consumer) hand washing. The reasoning is about ineffectiveness, not about superbugs. Though the political will that allowed/will allow this to move forward will have more to do with superbugs.
The purposes, uses, directions, all the other sections are part of the drug listing required for every OTC product. If the FDA finds this product is being marketed differently from how it is listed, they can issue warning letters, and eventually take action (seizing the product, fines, etc).
So a product listed as a surgical hand wash (another random example) can stay on the market. But antibacterial melon soap cannot. People could buy the allowed products and use them off-label, but by and large people are going to buy things called and marketed as soap to use as soap.
Note: I have no involvement with any of the linked products.
* There may not be any. But if only triclosan was banned, manufacturers would switch to the others and they would similarly be ineffective with the directions provided and expected usage.
posted by mountmccabe at 10:46 AM on September 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Dear lord do not buy an ozone generator. I recently bought one off ebay for about $50 without doing the proper research. Many years ago in college a friend had a malfunctioning neon sign transformer that made an ozone smell which was pleasant, so I figured it would be a good idea.
Interestingly I find the smell pleasant even at higher concentrations, while at the same time being pretty sensitive to its burning effect on my airways. I was amused by your story though. My S.O. also bought a cheap one online - which I wasn't against, we do have some pretty odiferous areas of this house - and has been... more blasé about its use than I'd be.
As I was saying above the main thing I've found from research is that contrary to the claims of some manufacturers that ozone decomposes in minutes (it decomposes in minutes in water) it may actually hang around for hours if not days in air. So if anybody uses one of these things and doesn't like the notion of sleeping in the equivalent of L.A. traffic - ventilate that shit with a fan.
posted by atoxyl at 2:37 PM on September 3, 2016
Interestingly I find the smell pleasant even at higher concentrations, while at the same time being pretty sensitive to its burning effect on my airways. I was amused by your story though. My S.O. also bought a cheap one online - which I wasn't against, we do have some pretty odiferous areas of this house - and has been... more blasé about its use than I'd be.
As I was saying above the main thing I've found from research is that contrary to the claims of some manufacturers that ozone decomposes in minutes (it decomposes in minutes in water) it may actually hang around for hours if not days in air. So if anybody uses one of these things and doesn't like the notion of sleeping in the equivalent of L.A. traffic - ventilate that shit with a fan.
posted by atoxyl at 2:37 PM on September 3, 2016
I was really hoping when I first read about this that it would extend to toothpastes. It seems every kind of mainstream toothpaste out there (okay, mostly Crest and Colgate) contains Triclosan, except for Crest Complete., and that if the US did away with it that that would also mean that type of product was less available in Canada as the companies reformulated their products. I guess soaps are a great start, though.
posted by urbanlenny at 9:14 PM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by urbanlenny at 9:14 PM on September 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Great. Antibacterial Palmolive keeps my dish washing sponges from getting stinky.
Time to stock up, just like I did with lightbulbs.--gsh
The best way to grow antibiotic resistant bacteria is to have an environment that encourages bacterial growth and soak it with antibiotics, and repeat this every day.
Microwave that sponge.
(You stocked up lightbulbs? Even my most reactionary friends who used to go on and on giving speeches about lightbulbs and how the govenment shouldn't be telling us what to buy have all switched to LED bulbs).
posted by eye of newt at 1:31 AM on September 4, 2016
Time to stock up, just like I did with lightbulbs.--gsh
The best way to grow antibiotic resistant bacteria is to have an environment that encourages bacterial growth and soak it with antibiotics, and repeat this every day.
Microwave that sponge.
(You stocked up lightbulbs? Even my most reactionary friends who used to go on and on giving speeches about lightbulbs and how the govenment shouldn't be telling us what to buy have all switched to LED bulbs).
posted by eye of newt at 1:31 AM on September 4, 2016
My SO will be unhappy about this. She swears triclosan is the only thing that keeps her being acceptably destinkified without showering three times daily. I think she's fine without it (it's been difficult to find body wash with triclosan lately), but my nose has never been trustworthy in her estimation.
posted by wierdo at 7:33 AM on September 4, 2016
posted by wierdo at 7:33 AM on September 4, 2016
« Older Who Works for the Workers? | A u m f m t v. Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 10:27 AM on September 2, 2016 [2 favorites]