All of a sudden you hear the other moves and you’re like, 'Holy (Bleep)'
September 6, 2016 10:08 AM Subscribe
Sure, there were rumours. But no one predicted the full extent of the NHL shake-up that began at 2:34 p.m. ET on June 29: The 23 Minutes That Shook The Hockey World.
Is there some explainer on this somewhere? I occasionally watch but don't really follow hockey, and even after reading this I don't understand why this was a big deal - there were two trades at roughly the same time during free-agency recruiting period. And separately the news broke that one dude didn't get traded. The article is interesting but extremely inside baseball, and I don't understand why this was an especially big deal? It wasn't "a bunch of trades", it was two one-for-one trades, no?
posted by brainmouse at 10:26 AM on September 6, 2016
posted by brainmouse at 10:26 AM on September 6, 2016
I still have no idea what the Canadiens think they have accomplished swapping out Subban for Weber.
(These were moves that involved some pretty big superstars, for those needing some context.)
posted by notyou at 10:31 AM on September 6, 2016
(These were moves that involved some pretty big superstars, for those needing some context.)
posted by notyou at 10:31 AM on September 6, 2016
I live in Canada and this article is gibberish to me.
posted by blue_beetle at 10:44 AM on September 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by blue_beetle at 10:44 AM on September 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is perhaps the most hyperbolic overstatement in the history of online sports talk.
posted by putzface_dickman at 10:48 AM on September 6, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by putzface_dickman at 10:48 AM on September 6, 2016 [7 favorites]
most hyperbolic
I see what you did there.
posted by Walleye at 10:49 AM on September 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
I see what you did there.
posted by Walleye at 10:49 AM on September 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
This was such a weird set of trades that I still feel like I don't get it, especially because they happened all at once - they're the kind of trades (and Stamkos staying in Tampa after weeks of speculation) you'd spend hours on for each, but it was bam! and then bam! and you're like. . .wha?. . .just happened?! Why. . .?! And I'd explain what happened except the one and only Sean McIndoe does it so much better. To quote from the beginning of his article about the trade:
posted by barchan at 10:58 AM on September 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
Late yesterday afternoon, news broke that the Oilers had finally pulled off their long-rumored trade for a top defenseman. Details were sketchy, but the first name to emerge was shocking: all-star Taylor Hall. Next, we learned the identity of the other team involved: The New Jersey Devils. That causes confusion, because short of goalie Cory Schneider, the Devils didn't have anyone worth surrendering Hall for. Finally, we got the whole deal: Hall for Adam Larsson, straight up. The hockey world reeled. Larsson is a decent young player, but nowhere near a proven No. 1, and the Oilers had just given up one of the best left wingers in the world for him. This was, quite possibly, the worst one-for-one trade we'd ever seen.McIndoe goes into the why a little bit too, a question I feel like everybody is still grappling with to some extent, hence this article. It's just. . . unbelievable.
And it held that title for all of about seven minutes.
That's how stunning the P.K. Subban for Shea Weber trade between the Canadiens and Predators was; it knocked all the Taylor Hall punchlines off your Twitter timeline pretty much immediately. By the time we found out, just a few minutes later, that Steven Stamkos had signed an extension in Tampa Bay, we all reacted like distracted parents. Sure, sure, Steven, that's wonderful news, but we're dealing with something important right now.
posted by barchan at 10:58 AM on September 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
Yeah, the article makes complete sense to me but wouldn't to somebody who doesn't pay a lot of attention to the NHL. Here is why this was all a big deal, at least to Sportsnet, which is owned by Rogers, which has the exclusive rights to broadcast/stream/whatever the NHL in Canada now. So they get a little breathless about anything to do with the game.
-The Edmonton Oilers have been in a "rebuild" for years and have collected multiple 1st overall draft picks in the process. Taylor Hall was the first of those; as you would expect of a 1st overall pick, he is a highly skilled player. Hall, along with the other top picks in the Oilers organization, are/were part of the "core" of the Oilers team, or what they were rebuilding around - the guys who would be the centre point of the team for the years to come. They traded him for a defenseman that would appear to be a couple of tiers down on the overall skill level rankings. (No offense to Larsson, who I'm sure is an awesome player in his own right).
-The Subban - Weber trade is a big one for a few reasons; firstly, both Subban and Weber are top tier defensemen in the league, and as such are highly prized for whatever team has them. For one to be traded would be big news; for them both to be involved in a trade is pretty much unprecedented in the modern-day NHL. Add in the fact that Subban played for Montreal, one of the most storied and most passionate hockey markets and the underlying rumours of discontent/discord between Subban and the coach and possibly the dressing room, and you have a lot there.
-July 1 is the beginning of the NHL free agency period. Steven Stamkos, of the Tampa Bay Lightning, is considered one of the top players of the game at the moment, and he had played out the final year of his contract. Speculation was rampant that he was going to sign somewhere else (and Toronto, centre of the sports media world in Canada, was considered a possibility). Lots of interest in him, and he could have signed a deal on his terms anywhere he wanted. His decision to sign on the eve of free agency was big news.
Each one of these would be a large hockey story on its own; add in the fact that they happened within a half-hour of each other, each independently, and you get a major day for the sports media and the fans to try to digest. I don't follow hockey as intensely as I used to, but I heard about each one of these when it went down and each one was a surprise, though it was more of a "huh. Wow" kind of thing as opposed to "holy shit!". I think it was more of an issue for the sports media, who suddenly had three major breaking stories to cover (when usually the days leading up to free agency are quiet except for the occasional person re-signing; the media is busy playing "what-if" games). Did these things really "shake the hockey world"? Well, if you are intimately involved, if hockey is your bread and butter, then I guess so...but in all honesty, we won't really know what any of these things mean for the players or the teams involved until somebody actually drops a puck.
The game abides. Everything around it is so much noise and fury.
posted by nubs at 10:59 AM on September 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
-The Edmonton Oilers have been in a "rebuild" for years and have collected multiple 1st overall draft picks in the process. Taylor Hall was the first of those; as you would expect of a 1st overall pick, he is a highly skilled player. Hall, along with the other top picks in the Oilers organization, are/were part of the "core" of the Oilers team, or what they were rebuilding around - the guys who would be the centre point of the team for the years to come. They traded him for a defenseman that would appear to be a couple of tiers down on the overall skill level rankings. (No offense to Larsson, who I'm sure is an awesome player in his own right).
-The Subban - Weber trade is a big one for a few reasons; firstly, both Subban and Weber are top tier defensemen in the league, and as such are highly prized for whatever team has them. For one to be traded would be big news; for them both to be involved in a trade is pretty much unprecedented in the modern-day NHL. Add in the fact that Subban played for Montreal, one of the most storied and most passionate hockey markets and the underlying rumours of discontent/discord between Subban and the coach and possibly the dressing room, and you have a lot there.
-July 1 is the beginning of the NHL free agency period. Steven Stamkos, of the Tampa Bay Lightning, is considered one of the top players of the game at the moment, and he had played out the final year of his contract. Speculation was rampant that he was going to sign somewhere else (and Toronto, centre of the sports media world in Canada, was considered a possibility). Lots of interest in him, and he could have signed a deal on his terms anywhere he wanted. His decision to sign on the eve of free agency was big news.
Each one of these would be a large hockey story on its own; add in the fact that they happened within a half-hour of each other, each independently, and you get a major day for the sports media and the fans to try to digest. I don't follow hockey as intensely as I used to, but I heard about each one of these when it went down and each one was a surprise, though it was more of a "huh. Wow" kind of thing as opposed to "holy shit!". I think it was more of an issue for the sports media, who suddenly had three major breaking stories to cover (when usually the days leading up to free agency are quiet except for the occasional person re-signing; the media is busy playing "what-if" games). Did these things really "shake the hockey world"? Well, if you are intimately involved, if hockey is your bread and butter, then I guess so...but in all honesty, we won't really know what any of these things mean for the players or the teams involved until somebody actually drops a puck.
The game abides. Everything around it is so much noise and fury.
posted by nubs at 10:59 AM on September 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
It was a big deal because 4 of the 5 players involved in the 3 transactions are considered among the absolute best at their position in the world (sorry, Adam Larsson). It also hits a lot of different buttons within the sport: racism in hockey; the somewhat troubled expansion of the NHL into the southern US; the ongoing arguments about the relative value of skill vs. physical play and analytics vs. scouting; the slow decline of storied Canadian franchises like the Maple Leafs, Canadiens, and Oilers; NHL management trying and failing to figure out how to run a team under the salary cap; the morality of tanking for draft picks; the tension between a culture that celebrates rugged Canadian farmboys and an NHL that would kind of like to build a more diverse fanbase (but also kind of doesn't because it sees itself in thrall to traditionlists); endless, pointless, infuriating arguments about showboating and whether it's ever acceptable to seem like you're having fun. There's a lot going on here with bigger implications than whether the New Jersey Devils are going to make the playoffs this year or what have you.
posted by Copronymus at 11:02 AM on September 6, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Copronymus at 11:02 AM on September 6, 2016 [11 favorites]
Thanks barchan/nubs/Copronymus, this makes a lot more sense in that context.
posted by brainmouse at 11:06 AM on September 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by brainmouse at 11:06 AM on September 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
I clicked for the hyperbole, but I stayed for the delicious Maple Leaf tears.
posted by Sauce Trough at 11:58 AM on September 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Sauce Trough at 11:58 AM on September 6, 2016 [5 favorites]
I still have no idea what the Canadiens think they have accomplished swapping out Subban for Weber.
I don't get it. Subban was a face of the franchise, he invested in the city long-term, the friendship between Subban and Price was something the fans reveled in, and why distract from those enjoyable aspects when the team is/was in free fall, and there's nothing else to get excited about?
Sure, I understand the need for the coach to maintain order and control, and that things in the locker room may not have been the best. They never are when things aren't working. Still, Habs fans memories run especially long, and the Roy-Tremblay mess loomed all over this, particularly the managerial style of pushing the puppy's nose in its doo-doo. Why did management play it the same way? What did Roy go off to do? What did Tremblay? What's so magical about Therrien that he should stay and the talented fan favourite go?
It all seemed like such a short-term solution for when there was no short term to salvage anyway. This is a dynasty team, and Subban and Price and the two of them together seemed to be the only new additions to that dynasty.
*shrugs*
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:05 PM on September 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
I don't get it. Subban was a face of the franchise, he invested in the city long-term, the friendship between Subban and Price was something the fans reveled in, and why distract from those enjoyable aspects when the team is/was in free fall, and there's nothing else to get excited about?
Sure, I understand the need for the coach to maintain order and control, and that things in the locker room may not have been the best. They never are when things aren't working. Still, Habs fans memories run especially long, and the Roy-Tremblay mess loomed all over this, particularly the managerial style of pushing the puppy's nose in its doo-doo. Why did management play it the same way? What did Roy go off to do? What did Tremblay? What's so magical about Therrien that he should stay and the talented fan favourite go?
It all seemed like such a short-term solution for when there was no short term to salvage anyway. This is a dynasty team, and Subban and Price and the two of them together seemed to be the only new additions to that dynasty.
*shrugs*
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:05 PM on September 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
I still have no idea what the Canadiens think they have accomplished swapping out Subban for Weber.
Definitely a management grudge against Subban. Huge mistake, they traded down and alienated their base. I unfollowed /r/habs and probably won't pay attention to them again until the GM or coach are traded.
As for Hall, it's huge and not necessarily a fair trade, but makes some room for McDavid both at the cap and locker room level, and gives us a right handed defenceman, which we desperately needed.
posted by furtive at 12:08 PM on September 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
One thing I'd add towards explaining for those who don't get it - Stamkos sticking in Tampa kind of proves the point rather than contributing toward it. The media basically spent all last season tripping over themselves speculating and gossiping about his status, yet when he did re-sign, nobody cared due to the other two trades that had just gone down.
posted by mannequito at 12:26 PM on September 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by mannequito at 12:26 PM on September 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
As for Hall, it's huge and not necessarily a fair trade, but makes some room for McDavid both at the cap and locker room level, and gives us a right handed defenceman, which we desperately needed.
The Hall trade, once I got past the initial surprise, actually makes sense to me - it can be questioned in terms of the relative value of the players, but that question is usually the one the fans and the media get fixated on, while there are other factors to consider; such as what the team needs are, cap implications, locker room dynamics, player fit, and what the market is like - everyone knew what the Oilers needed, so the price was going to be high. But in the era of hot takes, we need to know who won the trade right now, dammit! and all that other stuff doesn't matter.
The Subban-Weber trade reeks of a problem inside the Habs organization, on the other hand.
posted by nubs at 12:46 PM on September 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
The Hall trade, once I got past the initial surprise, actually makes sense to me - it can be questioned in terms of the relative value of the players, but that question is usually the one the fans and the media get fixated on, while there are other factors to consider; such as what the team needs are, cap implications, locker room dynamics, player fit, and what the market is like - everyone knew what the Oilers needed, so the price was going to be high. But in the era of hot takes, we need to know who won the trade right now, dammit! and all that other stuff doesn't matter.
The Subban-Weber trade reeks of a problem inside the Habs organization, on the other hand.
posted by nubs at 12:46 PM on September 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
Adding Shea Weber to the Canadiens organization makes sense in some ways: his more conservative style of play fits Therrien's locked-down, grinding game plan better than Subban's does.
But it is also a failure of Therrien's imagination, to not try and adopt his game plan to take advantage of Subban's strengths, like Ottawa has with Erik Karlsson, another unconventional defenseman (they fired the coach instead).
And over all that, Subban's gets booed every time he touches the puck in away games. (White) Career assholes like Matt Cooke and Brad Marchand don't have to put up with that every game.
posted by cardboard at 1:08 PM on September 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
But it is also a failure of Therrien's imagination, to not try and adopt his game plan to take advantage of Subban's strengths, like Ottawa has with Erik Karlsson, another unconventional defenseman (they fired the coach instead).
And over all that, Subban's gets booed every time he touches the puck in away games. (White) Career assholes like Matt Cooke and Brad Marchand don't have to put up with that every game.
posted by cardboard at 1:08 PM on September 6, 2016 [1 favorite]
the slow decline of storied Canadian franchises like the Maple Leafs
They haven't won a cup in my lifetime. That's not a decline, it's a flatline.
posted by srboisvert at 1:36 PM on September 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
They haven't won a cup in my lifetime. That's not a decline, it's a flatline.
posted by srboisvert at 1:36 PM on September 6, 2016 [3 favorites]
"July 1 is the beginning of the NHL free agency period"
This can't be overstated in terms of understanding what happened. July 1 is the day everyone thinks something big is going to happen, but nothing ever does. If you're like me, you sit at your computer with TSN.ca up, hitting refresh every 30 seconds. The thing is, there is very little that would justify this level of obsessiveness. The whole point is that it's a buildup to a letdown. Except, this year, it wasn't. In isolation, Hall-for-Larsson doesn't seem that big, and Subban-for-Webber is kind of big but not like Gretzky trade big. But happening on July 1st, it's like if Linus kept spending Halloween in the pumpkin patch until he was like 30 and super jaded, and then finally the Great Pumpkin showed up.
posted by kevinbelt at 2:11 PM on September 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
This can't be overstated in terms of understanding what happened. July 1 is the day everyone thinks something big is going to happen, but nothing ever does. If you're like me, you sit at your computer with TSN.ca up, hitting refresh every 30 seconds. The thing is, there is very little that would justify this level of obsessiveness. The whole point is that it's a buildup to a letdown. Except, this year, it wasn't. In isolation, Hall-for-Larsson doesn't seem that big, and Subban-for-Webber is kind of big but not like Gretzky trade big. But happening on July 1st, it's like if Linus kept spending Halloween in the pumpkin patch until he was like 30 and super jaded, and then finally the Great Pumpkin showed up.
posted by kevinbelt at 2:11 PM on September 6, 2016 [4 favorites]
Surely this means the Blues will win the Cup this year!
/cries silently into pillow...again
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 3:56 PM on September 6, 2016
/cries silently into pillow...again
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 3:56 PM on September 6, 2016
Poor Taylor Hall. Just as that org looks like it's going to get turned in the right direction he gets shipped off to NJ... which is likely to be a lottery team the next couple several years.
posted by notyou at 5:07 PM on September 6, 2016
posted by notyou at 5:07 PM on September 6, 2016
Eh I don't know about that. I'm no Devils fan, but they've amassed one of the best defensive prospect pools in the league, they have arguably the best goaltender (Canucks fan who watched Schneids since his Manitoba Moose days, I'll stand by that statement) right in his prime, their biggest issue looks to be scoring. So, they add Taylor Hall, one of the best LWers in the world, who's only -*checks*- what the fuck, 24!? The Oilers have been terrible forever.
posted by mannequito at 11:27 PM on September 6, 2016
posted by mannequito at 11:27 PM on September 6, 2016
you're like me, you sit at your computer with TSN.ca up, hitting refresh every 30 seconds.
Dude, it's Canada Day. Act like the rest of us and go hit up a pancake breakfast and then press refresh on your phone while your kid is in the bouncy castle. #traditions #doesnotapplytomontreal
posted by furtive at 3:55 AM on September 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
Dude, it's Canada Day. Act like the rest of us and go hit up a pancake breakfast and then press refresh on your phone while your kid is in the bouncy castle. #traditions #doesnotapplytomontreal
posted by furtive at 3:55 AM on September 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
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posted by Chocolate Pickle at 10:24 AM on September 6, 2016 [6 favorites]