New idea: bring work to the homeless
September 16, 2016 1:19 PM Subscribe
The new Republican mayor of Albuquerque has taken a different approach to panhandlers, and it seems to be working. "Throughout his administration, as part of a push to connect the homeless population to services, [Mayor Richard] Berry had taken to driving through the city to talk to panhandlers about their lives. His city’s poorest residents told him they didn’t want to be on the streets begging for money, but they didn’t know where else to go. Seeing that sign gave Berry an idea. Instead of asking them, many of whom feel dispirited, to go out looking for work, the city could bring the work to them."
The article mentions how this is in such stark contrast to the overall trend in America to criminalize homelessness, which you can read more about in this report by the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty. Also: Infographic from PBS as well.
This looks like an awesome step in the right direction. There's a similar pilot going on in Cincinnati
Meanwhile, here in Liberal Austin, Texas, our shelters still have to run a lottery to see who has somewhere to sleep that night.
posted by avalonian at 1:35 PM on September 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
Meanwhile, here in Liberal Austin, Texas, our shelters still have to run a lottery to see who has somewhere to sleep that night.
posted by avalonian at 1:35 PM on September 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
Nine dollars is more than the minimum wage? That's... just mentioned in passing! 360$ for a 40 hour week. Maybe paying people enough to cover the rent would help the homeless.
posted by adept256 at 1:40 PM on September 16, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by adept256 at 1:40 PM on September 16, 2016 [31 favorites]
What do the city employee unions think about the program? I can't see this working where the employees have a strong union.
posted by Keith Talent at 1:41 PM on September 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Keith Talent at 1:41 PM on September 16, 2016 [10 favorites]
That's... just mentioned in passing! 360$ for a 40 hour week. Maybe paying people enough to cover the rent would help the homeless.
And this program only runs twice a week (though it's expanding to four). It's nowhere near close enough to actually get people housing.
But! It's a very nice start. It's one of those things that cuts down on panhandling and injects money into the local economy. I'm homeless and content with it while I work on my One Big Music Project but it would be very nice to do work like this on occasion when I really need some money for gear or just better food than what the soup kitchens provide.
And yes, there are day-labor places a-plenty and while I haven't tried any of them out, from everything I hear from my fellow homeless folk those places generally suck. It's a lot of hoops to jump through for a day's pay with no guarantee of any more work. It's also not a means to end homelessness but the difference between this and what the article talks about is that the latter seems to restore dignity and not just push homeless people around and through lines and strip them of their self-worth.
Here a van shows up and if you want to work you jump in and make money. That's it. No drug tests or credit checks. Apparently no ID is required? Which if that's true is pretty damn remarkable for a government-run program not to require ID but as the article said that's a major impediment for people to gain normal employment. Things get lost and/or stolen and replacing an ID ($20-$50) can be something that's way outside of what a homeless person can afford. Anyway, this program makes it easy to work and make money and then they also provide an in to other programs.
Homelessness if a multi-faceted problem and no one solution is going to solve the whole thing. We all know this. But this is actually one good step, a pro-active step. Too many programs are passive, they wait for people to walk in. As a homeless person you have to know that the program exists, that it's actually capable of helping you (most aren't), that the help it provides is worth the hoops you have to jump through, and that it doesn't just make things worse in the long run (like staying in a shelter). It gets really depressing trying to navigate all the crap to find the one thing that will be able to help you three years from now.
This doesn't solve the problem but it's a very nice band-aid for immediate problems and does actually restore some humanity to folk. It's difficult to understand how much this is lacking in the homeless community and how important it is being able to walk into a store/restaurant and buy something you need. That little bit of empowerment can be just the seed someone needs to start the very difficult journey out of homelessness.
posted by bfootdav at 1:57 PM on September 16, 2016 [59 favorites]
And this program only runs twice a week (though it's expanding to four). It's nowhere near close enough to actually get people housing.
But! It's a very nice start. It's one of those things that cuts down on panhandling and injects money into the local economy. I'm homeless and content with it while I work on my One Big Music Project but it would be very nice to do work like this on occasion when I really need some money for gear or just better food than what the soup kitchens provide.
And yes, there are day-labor places a-plenty and while I haven't tried any of them out, from everything I hear from my fellow homeless folk those places generally suck. It's a lot of hoops to jump through for a day's pay with no guarantee of any more work. It's also not a means to end homelessness but the difference between this and what the article talks about is that the latter seems to restore dignity and not just push homeless people around and through lines and strip them of their self-worth.
Here a van shows up and if you want to work you jump in and make money. That's it. No drug tests or credit checks. Apparently no ID is required? Which if that's true is pretty damn remarkable for a government-run program not to require ID but as the article said that's a major impediment for people to gain normal employment. Things get lost and/or stolen and replacing an ID ($20-$50) can be something that's way outside of what a homeless person can afford. Anyway, this program makes it easy to work and make money and then they also provide an in to other programs.
Homelessness if a multi-faceted problem and no one solution is going to solve the whole thing. We all know this. But this is actually one good step, a pro-active step. Too many programs are passive, they wait for people to walk in. As a homeless person you have to know that the program exists, that it's actually capable of helping you (most aren't), that the help it provides is worth the hoops you have to jump through, and that it doesn't just make things worse in the long run (like staying in a shelter). It gets really depressing trying to navigate all the crap to find the one thing that will be able to help you three years from now.
This doesn't solve the problem but it's a very nice band-aid for immediate problems and does actually restore some humanity to folk. It's difficult to understand how much this is lacking in the homeless community and how important it is being able to walk into a store/restaurant and buy something you need. That little bit of empowerment can be just the seed someone needs to start the very difficult journey out of homelessness.
posted by bfootdav at 1:57 PM on September 16, 2016 [59 favorites]
What do the city employee unions think about the program? I can't see this working where the employees have a strong union.
The picture made it look like they're picking up trash so I think the major competition is from the jails and people doing community service as part of their sentence. I would imagine that there's always going to be plenty of trash that needs to be picked up and that most people won't want to make a career out of it.
posted by bfootdav at 2:00 PM on September 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
The picture made it look like they're picking up trash so I think the major competition is from the jails and people doing community service as part of their sentence. I would imagine that there's always going to be plenty of trash that needs to be picked up and that most people won't want to make a career out of it.
posted by bfootdav at 2:00 PM on September 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
"And it seems to be working." intended?
posted by danjo at 2:11 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by danjo at 2:11 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Seriously though, everyone. Vote in your local elections. Find out who your city council person is. Email them. Reply to their Facebook posts. Etc.
posted by avalonian at 2:18 PM on September 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by avalonian at 2:18 PM on September 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
Also, here's the City of Albuquerque's website on the program. There are links to other stories on the same program.
posted by avalonian at 2:23 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by avalonian at 2:23 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Who knows. I can see some obvious problems including replacing presumably previously benefited union labor, but on the plus side, as someone who works full time with people who are homeless, I can testify to the need for having a thing to do and contributing to the community. People who need help themselves are often robbed of the opportunity to serve the larger community. Getting paid, a meal, and a bed makes this real work as defined by our country. I can see this having a positive impact as one element of homeless programs for a city.
posted by latkes at 2:42 PM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by latkes at 2:42 PM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
"presumably benefited union labor"
There's a labor union for workers who are picking up trash and clearing weeds in cities?
posted by hippybear at 2:49 PM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
There's a labor union for workers who are picking up trash and clearing weeds in cities?
posted by hippybear at 2:49 PM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
When people throw around the phrase "compassionate conservatism", this is the sort of thing I want cited as a proper example: the original meaning, not the corrupted version that came about in the last 20 years.
posted by parliboy at 2:49 PM on September 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by parliboy at 2:49 PM on September 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
i worry this will return the workhorse, it pays way too little, and it assumes a meritorious scale for the poor--what if due to illness or disability, that one cannot do hard manual labour?
posted by PinkMoose at 3:01 PM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by PinkMoose at 3:01 PM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Berry’s effort is a shift from the movement across the country to criminalize panhandling.
Huh? This is lazy reporting. If a reporter goes beyond substantive facts to state a thesis, he or she should offer at least a little unpacking of it, right?
I don't believe this is a "shift from" the criminalization of panhandling-- it is a related approach coming from a very similar ethos, just with a slightly more neoliberal twist.
posted by zokni at 3:04 PM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Huh? This is lazy reporting. If a reporter goes beyond substantive facts to state a thesis, he or she should offer at least a little unpacking of it, right?
I don't believe this is a "shift from" the criminalization of panhandling-- it is a related approach coming from a very similar ethos, just with a slightly more neoliberal twist.
posted by zokni at 3:04 PM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I am not homeless, but I have been trying to find any job at all for the last several months, and if this opportunity were available to me, I would sign up in an instant. $9 an hour, start work today, no long series of applications and interviews followed by inevitable rejection? Absolutely. Not working can destroy your sense of self-worth quickly, and I imagine this is far more true for someone who doesn't have a home or safety nets. Obviously this is just a small step but at least it's a start.
posted by thetortoise at 3:04 PM on September 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by thetortoise at 3:04 PM on September 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
There's a labor union for workers who are picking up trash and clearing weeds in cities?
Yes? Why wouldn't there be?
posted by praemunire at 3:06 PM on September 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Yes? Why wouldn't there be?
posted by praemunire at 3:06 PM on September 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Not to kvetch, but Mayor Berry has been in office since 2009 -- he's not "new".
posted by olopua at 3:14 PM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by olopua at 3:14 PM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I definitely wouldn't want to imply that the program is inherently bad, or that there aren't people who will really appreciate it. For many homeless (and housed) people who want to and are able to work, it's hard to connect to the formal economy due to CORI, immigration status, etc. But this kind of breathless puff piece, which comes out of What Happened Next Will Surprise You journalism and the collective obsession with "innovation" as an end unto itself, is so representative of the way policy gets reported and consumed in this civic moment.
Look, the forced connection between jobs and survival in a society that has massive collective excess of resources is an infinitely more powerful driver of homelessness than the lack of $9/hr jobs available in a given community.
posted by zokni at 3:18 PM on September 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
Look, the forced connection between jobs and survival in a society that has massive collective excess of resources is an infinitely more powerful driver of homelessness than the lack of $9/hr jobs available in a given community.
posted by zokni at 3:18 PM on September 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
That's my kind of Republican!
posted by fraxil at 4:02 PM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by fraxil at 4:02 PM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
(cracks knuckles)
OK mefites, how are we gonna pick this thing to death?
posted by boo_radley at 4:04 PM on September 16, 2016 [27 favorites]
OK mefites, how are we gonna pick this thing to death?
posted by boo_radley at 4:04 PM on September 16, 2016 [27 favorites]
Softly/Big stick
posted by clavdivs at 4:21 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by clavdivs at 4:21 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wow bfootdav. Growing up as a sometimes foster kid and devoting my 17 year professional career to working with homeless, marginally and transitionally-housed clients...GIGANTIC FIST BUMP.
posted by pipoquinha at 4:47 PM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by pipoquinha at 4:47 PM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
SF did this at one point, not sure if the program is still functioning. It was pretty controversial at the time because some folks said it was like punishing people for mental illness and poverty. At the time I sort of felt that way, but now I've changed my mind. But the cheap labor aspect of it unsettles me.
At least more cities are trying things; this issue just has to be dealt with on a federal level. I know SF is the capital of homelessness partly because we offer the most services and the demand just outstrips supply. We have supportive housing here, which provides housing and work to homeless people yet we certainly can't claim to have "solved" it because the demand is just too heavy.
Hopefully if a republican is on board with constructive programs there may be some hope yet for more programs across the country.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 4:52 PM on September 16, 2016
At least more cities are trying things; this issue just has to be dealt with on a federal level. I know SF is the capital of homelessness partly because we offer the most services and the demand just outstrips supply. We have supportive housing here, which provides housing and work to homeless people yet we certainly can't claim to have "solved" it because the demand is just too heavy.
Hopefully if a republican is on board with constructive programs there may be some hope yet for more programs across the country.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 4:52 PM on September 16, 2016
This is a great idea until some Alabama politician gets a hold of it and starts herding the homeless into coal mines and catfish processing plants. "Of course it's voluntary! If they don't wanna work, they're welcome to walk back to town!"
posted by BitterOldPunk at 5:06 PM on September 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by BitterOldPunk at 5:06 PM on September 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
And not to be pessimistic and a contrarian, but having worked in homeless housing, sometimes providing housing is not the end all panacea to chronic homelessness. We had several people that could not manage money and make rent even that was very cheap, could not show up to work, would relapse etc. I don't think it's as easy as this article makes it out to be. Some people just cannot function, that's how they ended up homeless. If there was an easy, catch-all solution, SF would have found it by now. God knows we've tried everything. I think a lot of it involves intensive mental health services.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 5:11 PM on September 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 5:11 PM on September 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
I know SF is the capital of homelessness partly because we offer the most services and the demand just outstrips supply
"Seventy-one percent (71%) of respondents reported they were living in San Francisco at the time they most recently became homeless, an increase from 61% in 2013. Of those, nearly half (49%) had lived in San Francisco for 10 years or more. Eleven percent (11%) had lived in San Francisco for less than one year." Link
posted by rtha at 5:11 PM on September 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
"Seventy-one percent (71%) of respondents reported they were living in San Francisco at the time they most recently became homeless, an increase from 61% in 2013. Of those, nearly half (49%) had lived in San Francisco for 10 years or more. Eleven percent (11%) had lived in San Francisco for less than one year." Link
posted by rtha at 5:11 PM on September 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
it pays way too little
In the sense that most people are paid way too little, sure. But given the caveat that the program exists in that same world...
posted by atoxyl at 5:19 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
In the sense that most people are paid way too little, sure. But given the caveat that the program exists in that same world...
posted by atoxyl at 5:19 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
But the cheap labor aspect of it unsettles me.
The minimum wage in the US is shamefully low, but that is a national disgrace, not a reason to beat up on this program.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:22 PM on September 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
The minimum wage in the US is shamefully low, but that is a national disgrace, not a reason to beat up on this program.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:22 PM on September 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
^I guess I'm basing on experience from many years ago; I know that skyrocketing rents have created homelessness as well. But even when we had really cheap rent back in the 80s, there was a ton of homeless folks in SF. I'm basing my comments on (granted anecdotal) experience in working in services where I sometimes had people coming from other cities because their towns had nothing. I suppose that has drastically changed with the insane rental market. Not all homeless people are chronically homeless; that is a very different subset of many homeless folk who couch-surf, live in cars and hold jobs while bouncing from refuge to refuge, but can manage to rebound from homelessness & stay housed once they have affordable housing. To be fair, I don't know what percentage of that 70% is the chronically homeless that are the types of nomads, for lack of a better term, than the ones I encountered.
This is also anecdotal, but there is also the alleged (and once proven) phenomenon of other cities dumping psych patients in SF; one schizophrenic person was given about a weeks worth of meds and a greyhound ticket here. I don't know how much it really happens, but I wouldn't doubt it if it happens more, because how many homeless schizophrenics are going to go to the press about it? Perhaps I'm basing my observations on conjecture and rumor, but my main point was that the chronically homeless population is not so easily served and the supply of homeless people, including people sleeping on the street, is never-ending despite a pretty solid social service system, or at least a hell of a lot better than many cities.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 5:29 PM on September 16, 2016
This is also anecdotal, but there is also the alleged (and once proven) phenomenon of other cities dumping psych patients in SF; one schizophrenic person was given about a weeks worth of meds and a greyhound ticket here. I don't know how much it really happens, but I wouldn't doubt it if it happens more, because how many homeless schizophrenics are going to go to the press about it? Perhaps I'm basing my observations on conjecture and rumor, but my main point was that the chronically homeless population is not so easily served and the supply of homeless people, including people sleeping on the street, is never-ending despite a pretty solid social service system, or at least a hell of a lot better than many cities.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 5:29 PM on September 16, 2016
The minimum wage in the US is shamefully low, but that is a national disgrace, not a reason to beat up on this program.
I'm not beating up on this program; in fact in the rest of my comment I said it provides hope that the issue could be addressed country-wide. I was just expressing misgivings, kind of like what Bitter Old Punk was saying, that it could be abused. Like I said, I've worked in supportive housing that provides jobs and housing to people, I'm not against that model at all.
Oh and my comment above was for rtha; to clarify.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 5:33 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm not beating up on this program; in fact in the rest of my comment I said it provides hope that the issue could be addressed country-wide. I was just expressing misgivings, kind of like what Bitter Old Punk was saying, that it could be abused. Like I said, I've worked in supportive housing that provides jobs and housing to people, I'm not against that model at all.
Oh and my comment above was for rtha; to clarify.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 5:33 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
The details of the program are that it currently runs twice a week and it picks up 10 people per time it runs.
This isn't really a jobs program for the homeless. It's a bit of an occasional helping hand for a very small number of people. It offers them a bit of money and an optional place to sleep and offers to connect them with services directed to help them.
It's made a dent in the homeless population in Albuquerque less because of the work offered and more because it offers connections to services. TFA says that 100 people have been connected with real employment. Real employment is not what this program is. This program is more of a "hey, are you serious about wanting to get out of your situation" passkey opportunity for those who can take advantage of it.
I don't know what to say about those who are mentally or physically unable to grab this passkey, other than it's a major failing of our society that those people end up on the street to begin with.
The VA has a program called Housing First which believes that the way to solve the problem of homeless veterans is to first provide them with housing without any assessment about whether they are supposedly ready for that, and then to connect them with healthcare and other support to try to stabilize their lives. I don't know how well that program is doing as far as long-term success goes, but it seems like we'd be serving our homeless better if we had a similar program for anyone living on the streets.
posted by hippybear at 5:33 PM on September 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
This isn't really a jobs program for the homeless. It's a bit of an occasional helping hand for a very small number of people. It offers them a bit of money and an optional place to sleep and offers to connect them with services directed to help them.
It's made a dent in the homeless population in Albuquerque less because of the work offered and more because it offers connections to services. TFA says that 100 people have been connected with real employment. Real employment is not what this program is. This program is more of a "hey, are you serious about wanting to get out of your situation" passkey opportunity for those who can take advantage of it.
I don't know what to say about those who are mentally or physically unable to grab this passkey, other than it's a major failing of our society that those people end up on the street to begin with.
The VA has a program called Housing First which believes that the way to solve the problem of homeless veterans is to first provide them with housing without any assessment about whether they are supposedly ready for that, and then to connect them with healthcare and other support to try to stabilize their lives. I don't know how well that program is doing as far as long-term success goes, but it seems like we'd be serving our homeless better if we had a similar program for anyone living on the streets.
posted by hippybear at 5:33 PM on September 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
Housing First as an orientation is actually the centerpiece of the national plan to end homelessness and is being pushed pretty aggressively by all federal agencies that fund homeless services, starting kinda-ish in the Bush era and in earnest for at least the past ~5 years.
posted by zokni at 5:39 PM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by zokni at 5:39 PM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
So there's a van that goes around picking up homeless people to do public labor for $9 an hour. People who have no better option. People of questionable legal status, vulnerable people, people without the proper paperwork or education to know their rights and claim them. They offer help, but they don't ask questions either.
At the same time, there's a huge drive to criminalize panhandling around the country.
At the same time, non-government actors are also starting similar programs.
This is in a Republican town, the party of small government.
You know what happens with private prisons and immigrant detention centers and juvenile detention & services and all those horror stories?
What happens when this becomes widespread? My dystopian take: Stop to pick up a penny, the neighborhood "homelessness relief van" with its Facebook-linked facial recognition camera (installed to help identify the needy and connect them with family, but also conveniently used to collect evidence of crimes in progress and notify family of who to bail out) cruises by. It stops, the door swings open, and two burly Citizens2Home enforcers leap out. They don't carry guns, of course, but they don't need to, because dealing with the homeless is such a dangerous job that they're allowed to carry tasers. "Excuse me sir, are you homeless? Panhandling is a crime, you know. But we offer A Better Way! Why don't you come with us and work for a day, then we'll tell you all about the services that may be available to you as a violator of panhandling laws...that is of course, unless you choose to stay at our shelter tonight, and continue working with us tomorrow, until your family comes to pay your processing fees. Then there's a chance you won't be charged."
But even if it doesn't get that bad, how do we stop this from becoming press-ganging the vulnerable?
posted by saysthis at 6:32 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
At the same time, there's a huge drive to criminalize panhandling around the country.
At the same time, non-government actors are also starting similar programs.
This is in a Republican town, the party of small government.
You know what happens with private prisons and immigrant detention centers and juvenile detention & services and all those horror stories?
What happens when this becomes widespread? My dystopian take: Stop to pick up a penny, the neighborhood "homelessness relief van" with its Facebook-linked facial recognition camera (installed to help identify the needy and connect them with family, but also conveniently used to collect evidence of crimes in progress and notify family of who to bail out) cruises by. It stops, the door swings open, and two burly Citizens2Home enforcers leap out. They don't carry guns, of course, but they don't need to, because dealing with the homeless is such a dangerous job that they're allowed to carry tasers. "Excuse me sir, are you homeless? Panhandling is a crime, you know. But we offer A Better Way! Why don't you come with us and work for a day, then we'll tell you all about the services that may be available to you as a violator of panhandling laws...that is of course, unless you choose to stay at our shelter tonight, and continue working with us tomorrow, until your family comes to pay your processing fees. Then there's a chance you won't be charged."
But even if it doesn't get that bad, how do we stop this from becoming press-ganging the vulnerable?
posted by saysthis at 6:32 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's dawned on me that I was commenting in a garbled way and wasn't making my points well. My comment about people coming to SF for services was not meant to denigrate people who need and seek those services (I've worked in them and used some of them) but rather to say that other cities have to step up to the plate and that SF cannot shoulder the problem all by itself. I feel that SF is often criticized for its services and yet I think there is a lot there that other cities don't offer.
And if someone has been here 10 years and is homeless doesn't necessarily mean they didn't come for the services; those services have been around 50 years and a person can be in and out of housing for a long time.
Also I don't want to say that just because the problem of chronic homelessness is tough doesn't mean we shouldn't keep looking for answers; quite the opposite. Decency requires that we do so. But this article felt a little simplistic, as much as it offers some hope, but I don't want to see people get disapointed and give up when the solution doesn't pan out as well as expected when a miracle solution was put forward as an end to homelessness. In other words, this:
But this kind of breathless puff piece, which comes out of What Happened Next Will Surprise You journalism and the collective obsession with "innovation" as an end unto itself, is so representative of the way policy gets reported and consumed in this civic moment.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 6:36 PM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
And if someone has been here 10 years and is homeless doesn't necessarily mean they didn't come for the services; those services have been around 50 years and a person can be in and out of housing for a long time.
Also I don't want to say that just because the problem of chronic homelessness is tough doesn't mean we shouldn't keep looking for answers; quite the opposite. Decency requires that we do so. But this article felt a little simplistic, as much as it offers some hope, but I don't want to see people get disapointed and give up when the solution doesn't pan out as well as expected when a miracle solution was put forward as an end to homelessness. In other words, this:
But this kind of breathless puff piece, which comes out of What Happened Next Will Surprise You journalism and the collective obsession with "innovation" as an end unto itself, is so representative of the way policy gets reported and consumed in this civic moment.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 6:36 PM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
> I don't know how much it really happens,
Really not very much. I mean, it does happen (there was a story within the last couple years about a hospital in either Reno or Las Vegas that did this to a patient), but I have a number of friends who work in agencies/with people who are homeless or marginally housed, and the vast majority (of the homeless/marginally housed) really are former residents of SF or immediate neighbor counties. I mean, I lot of the folks who are living in tents now used to be marginally housed, splitting their time between the couches or floors of friends who had rooms in SROs or shared flats and their own SRO rooms, but we've lost a ton of both SROs and (relatively) affordable shared apartment spaces, and that doesn't begin to touch the folks who have, yes, just been illegally evicted from their apartments. Or been displaced by residential fires (residents are supposed to be able to come back to the place once it's been repaired/rebuilt but...). Like that.
posted by rtha at 6:38 PM on September 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Really not very much. I mean, it does happen (there was a story within the last couple years about a hospital in either Reno or Las Vegas that did this to a patient), but I have a number of friends who work in agencies/with people who are homeless or marginally housed, and the vast majority (of the homeless/marginally housed) really are former residents of SF or immediate neighbor counties. I mean, I lot of the folks who are living in tents now used to be marginally housed, splitting their time between the couches or floors of friends who had rooms in SROs or shared flats and their own SRO rooms, but we've lost a ton of both SROs and (relatively) affordable shared apartment spaces, and that doesn't begin to touch the folks who have, yes, just been illegally evicted from their apartments. Or been displaced by residential fires (residents are supposed to be able to come back to the place once it's been repaired/rebuilt but...). Like that.
posted by rtha at 6:38 PM on September 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
^points taken. But I still think other cities need to step up, that's a big part of what I was trying to say. Also, my experience was mainly in the 80s, when there was an explosion of homelessness long before the tech boom and Ellis Act evictions. It seemed far worse then than it is now. Sorry if my data was inaccurate; it was just observation.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 6:46 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 6:46 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
saysthis: most of your comment isn't part of what is actually happening there.
I'm not saying this program is perfect. But according to TFA, it's connected more than 100 people with real employment (and I assume a better life) since it was started in less than a year. That's pretty good, right? It's government working with a non-profit that is targeted to combat homelessness. That's also good, right? Or do you consider that non-profit one of the "non-government actors" you talk about in your comment?
This is one program in one city. What might be happening across the country isn't happening in Albuquerque, apparently. I don't read in the article that there are police vans coming along behind the van talked about in the article arresting those who don't get one of the 10 seats available.
I understand your frustration with the situation of homelessness in this country. I've been to Seattle more than once in the past year, and I've seen the tents and sleeping tarps laid out under raised freeways and the lines of RVs parked along streets. As one of the richest countries in the world, we don't treat those who find themselves in the very bottom of circumstances as well as we should. But don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good.
This is a tiny program. It's not helping nearly enough people on a regular basis. But it's changing a few lives. And changing a few lives is better than changing none at all, IMO.
posted by hippybear at 6:54 PM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm not saying this program is perfect. But according to TFA, it's connected more than 100 people with real employment (and I assume a better life) since it was started in less than a year. That's pretty good, right? It's government working with a non-profit that is targeted to combat homelessness. That's also good, right? Or do you consider that non-profit one of the "non-government actors" you talk about in your comment?
This is one program in one city. What might be happening across the country isn't happening in Albuquerque, apparently. I don't read in the article that there are police vans coming along behind the van talked about in the article arresting those who don't get one of the 10 seats available.
I understand your frustration with the situation of homelessness in this country. I've been to Seattle more than once in the past year, and I've seen the tents and sleeping tarps laid out under raised freeways and the lines of RVs parked along streets. As one of the richest countries in the world, we don't treat those who find themselves in the very bottom of circumstances as well as we should. But don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good.
This is a tiny program. It's not helping nearly enough people on a regular basis. But it's changing a few lives. And changing a few lives is better than changing none at all, IMO.
posted by hippybear at 6:54 PM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I mean, "accusing" homeless people of moving to urban areas wouldn't exactly be an aha moment, even if/when it is accurate-- cities attract new residents in general! That's...why they're cities. What proportion of housed people picked at random off a San Francisco street corner would likely have arrived at some point from somewhere else?
posted by zokni at 6:56 PM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by zokni at 6:56 PM on September 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I mean, "accusing" homeless people of moving to urban areas isn't exactly an aha moment, even if it were accurate-- cities attract new residents in general! That's...why they're cities.
Aboslutely! I'm a transplant here too, I came for college, the culture, the music, jobs. etc etc. I hope I didn't come across as accusing anybody, or saying SF shouldn't have programs because it may attract people. Again, I just want other cities to do the same things (but yes there is also a history of SROs getting torn down, and the famous I-Hotel closure). But we have done a lot to remedy that; unfortunately it's not enough, and there's no question that the situation around affordable housing in 2016 is dire.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 7:05 PM on September 16, 2016
Aboslutely! I'm a transplant here too, I came for college, the culture, the music, jobs. etc etc. I hope I didn't come across as accusing anybody, or saying SF shouldn't have programs because it may attract people. Again, I just want other cities to do the same things (but yes there is also a history of SROs getting torn down, and the famous I-Hotel closure). But we have done a lot to remedy that; unfortunately it's not enough, and there's no question that the situation around affordable housing in 2016 is dire.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 7:05 PM on September 16, 2016
Nitpick to death, hell, we've gone to writing straight-up dystopian fiction.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 7:10 PM on September 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 7:10 PM on September 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
whoops..this is the Community Housing Partnership that I meant. More of these, please.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 7:11 PM on September 16, 2016
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 7:11 PM on September 16, 2016
I hope I didn't come across as accusing anybody, or saying SF shouldn't have programs because it may attract people.
Nah, I wasn't reading that in, just responding to the idea as something I hear expressed frequently out in the world.
posted by zokni at 7:12 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Nah, I wasn't reading that in, just responding to the idea as something I hear expressed frequently out in the world.
posted by zokni at 7:12 PM on September 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
cool :) wouldn't want to be an asshole...
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 7:12 PM on September 16, 2016
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 7:12 PM on September 16, 2016
You know what happens with private prisons and immigrant detention centers and juvenile detention & services and all those horror stories?
I completely understand this fear, and given the criminalisation of homelessness and numerous examples of private prisons using prisoners for cheap/free labour it's a prima facie reasonable one.
That said, the difference here is that the participants in this program are receiving a fair market wage for their work. And it's a huge difference. There might be a slippery slope from here to what you're afraid of, but at the moment it's just hypothetical.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:20 PM on September 16, 2016
I completely understand this fear, and given the criminalisation of homelessness and numerous examples of private prisons using prisoners for cheap/free labour it's a prima facie reasonable one.
That said, the difference here is that the participants in this program are receiving a fair market wage for their work. And it's a huge difference. There might be a slippery slope from here to what you're afraid of, but at the moment it's just hypothetical.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:20 PM on September 16, 2016
My dystopian take: Stop to pick up a penny, the neighborhood "homelessness relief van" with its Facebook-linked facial recognition camera (installed to help identify the needy and connect them with family, but also conveniently used to collect evidence of crimes in progress and notify family of who to bail out) cruises by. It stops, the door swings open, and two burly Citizens2Home enforcers leap out. They don't carry guns, of course, but they don't need to, because dealing with the homeless is such a dangerous job that they're allowed to carry tasers.
You are describing the current police officers in many cities now, without even the pretense of competency or helpfulness.
I would be so happy some days to wake up in some hyper competent egalatarian dystopia from the 60s.
posted by benzenedream at 8:54 PM on September 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
You are describing the current police officers in many cities now, without even the pretense of competency or helpfulness.
I would be so happy some days to wake up in some hyper competent egalatarian dystopia from the 60s.
posted by benzenedream at 8:54 PM on September 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Given how often I made the pilgrimage to the now defunct Sisters And Brothers gay bookstore in ABQ, I'm okay with your autocorrect.
posted by hippybear at 8:55 PM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 8:55 PM on September 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
There's a labor union for workers who are picking up trash and clearing weeds in cities?
In my Chicago neighborhood this work is done by a work diversion convicts. So slaves essentially.
posted by srboisvert at 4:50 AM on September 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
In my Chicago neighborhood this work is done by a work diversion convicts. So slaves essentially.
posted by srboisvert at 4:50 AM on September 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
My aunt used to work for St. Martin's. Here's their webpage describing this program and a bit of its history.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 7:19 AM on September 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 7:19 AM on September 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
My worries about this, and programs inspired by it, are IRS-related.
Hiring a contractor for more than a few hundred dollars a year triggers a requirement to report those wages to the IRS. (While the employee is supposedly required to file an income tax report, the penalty for failure to do so is based on the amount of taxes owed, so in practicality, there's no problem if they're below the threshold of paying taxes.) If they're not requiring ID, there's a chance that some individuals are getting paid more than that threshold - admittedly a thin chance, but audits could certainly be triggered by paying cash to unrecorded numbers of undocumented workers. (They may know how many payments they've made, but without ID, they don't know to how many people.) And that's before we get into the not-legally-allowed-to-work-in-this-country problems.
I suspect more businesses don't do anything like this because you'd need to be a government agency to avoid liability for the IRS problems.
I really wish more cities and states would take a solid look at the long-term results of the WPA and note that "hire the jobless" is an effective, proven economic plan.
The WPA as it was could not be instituted today; it was shored up by the premise that a man would work and a woman would stay home and tend kids, and that a single income could support an entire family. But the core premise - find jobless people, and hire them to do pretty much anything they're capable of; we're a diverse society and we can find consumers for the results of that labor - is a terrific foundation for a fix-the-economy plan that none of the current politicians are talking about, because we have this myth that it's immoral to help people who haven't got bootstrap skills unless they're the "right kind" of poor.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:05 AM on September 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
Hiring a contractor for more than a few hundred dollars a year triggers a requirement to report those wages to the IRS. (While the employee is supposedly required to file an income tax report, the penalty for failure to do so is based on the amount of taxes owed, so in practicality, there's no problem if they're below the threshold of paying taxes.) If they're not requiring ID, there's a chance that some individuals are getting paid more than that threshold - admittedly a thin chance, but audits could certainly be triggered by paying cash to unrecorded numbers of undocumented workers. (They may know how many payments they've made, but without ID, they don't know to how many people.) And that's before we get into the not-legally-allowed-to-work-in-this-country problems.
I suspect more businesses don't do anything like this because you'd need to be a government agency to avoid liability for the IRS problems.
I really wish more cities and states would take a solid look at the long-term results of the WPA and note that "hire the jobless" is an effective, proven economic plan.
The WPA as it was could not be instituted today; it was shored up by the premise that a man would work and a woman would stay home and tend kids, and that a single income could support an entire family. But the core premise - find jobless people, and hire them to do pretty much anything they're capable of; we're a diverse society and we can find consumers for the results of that labor - is a terrific foundation for a fix-the-economy plan that none of the current politicians are talking about, because we have this myth that it's immoral to help people who haven't got bootstrap skills unless they're the "right kind" of poor.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:05 AM on September 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
« Older Updating the Voyager spacecraft Golden Record idea... | The Lenny Interview: Margaret Wertheim Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Fizz at 1:30 PM on September 16, 2016 [85 favorites]