Real estate agencies are very bad at prize-level pacing.
September 19, 2016 7:17 AM   Subscribe

Shea Serrano of The Ringer is fact-checking famous movie speeches. He started with Alec Baldwin's Glengarry Glen Ross "Third prize is you're fired" speech, and has now applied his keen eye to Joe Pesci's Goodfellas "I’m funny how, I mean funny like I’m a clown? I amuse you?" speech. Serrano brings the rigor and precision that only a former middle-school science teacher can bring to this important work.
posted by Etrigan (94 comments total) 12 users marked this as a favorite
 
BLAKE (to Levene, who is attempting to pour himself a cup of coffee): Put. That coffee. Down! Coffee’s for closers only.

Fact check: Inaccurate. Coffee is for everyone. It can be purchased at many places, and is often offered for free in offices, hotel lobbies, gas stations after local sports teams win games, teacher lounges in schools, and other locations.


I'm going to dispute this a little bit, because I think it is clear that the coffee Blake is referring to in the scene is specifically the coffee in the office where the salesmen are. Blake, that is, is not referring to "coffee" as a general consumer product, but coffee as in that pot that is in that room at that moment. Blake is asserting that that particular coffee is for closers, not all coffee everywhere at anytime.

Now, the question becomes who Blake is, and whether or not Blake has the right/moral authority/enforcement ability to deny that coffee in that pot to anyone but closers. He will in fact claim that level of moral authority because he is from "downtown", sent by"Mitch and Murray", but I don't recall any evidence of this fact. Nevertheless, the characters acquiesce to him, so it would appear that the claim is successful, regardless of veracity. And that perhaps is the only fact that matters here.

(This is fun and I wish to engage in it all day)
posted by nubs at 7:28 AM on September 19, 2016 [26 favorites]


Fact check: Inaccurate. His name is not FUCK YOU. His name is Blake. (No last name is given, so I suppose there’s at least a tiny chance that his last name is Fuck You, though it seems very unlikely that that’s the case.)
posted by Splunge at 7:32 AM on September 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


Fact check: Inaccurate. Regular testicles seem more than fine when selling real estate, as do no testicles at all. Barbara from Shark Tank has made millions of dollars selling real estate, for example.
posted by nubs at 7:34 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


Fact check: This is a shtick that's going to get real old real fast.
posted by Sangermaine at 7:38 AM on September 19, 2016 [29 favorites]


This is fantastic. "Funny like I'm a clown" is my fiance's favorite thing to say to me.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:38 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]




TOMMY (to everyone): Pow, ping, boom. The fuckers. I wish I was big just once.
Fact check: Likely accurate. Tommy is played by Joe Pesci, and Joe Pesci is short (5-foot-4). Short people do, on occasion, wish they were big. Tom Hanks made a movie wrapped around that exact premise in 1988. He was short and wished he was big. The movie was called Big. Tommy’s wish was not granted in Goodfellas like Tom Hanks’s wish was granted in Big. Goodfellas would’ve been a way different movie if it had. So would Big if Hanks’s wish hadn’t been granted. It wouldn’t have been called Big. It would’ve been called Normal. It probably would’ve sucked.

I think he's bang on here; Tom Hanks in Normal would have sucked. Although I think Tommy suddenly getting his wish to become big in Goodfellas would make for a very entertaining movie.
posted by nubs at 7:42 AM on September 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


Statement: "I’m funny how, I mean funny like I’m a clown?
Fact check: There's nothing funny about clowns.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:45 AM on September 19, 2016 [13 favorites]


I like the premise of this project and some of the execution, although I think it could be stronger if it were carried out with a bit more fidelity to a point of view. By that I mean, for example, is the fact checker applying real world facts to the fiction or the fictional world's facts to the fiction? There's some vacillating there, and also the tone can wobble between earnest naivety and internet-weary irony and probably it is better to just go with one or the other (I vote for earnestness).

Still, a fun project that I enjoyed (I only read the Goodfellas fact check because I am unfamiliar with the other linked above) and thanks for linking.
posted by notyou at 7:45 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


"Well, I’m not a leash, so I don’t know, do I?"

Fact check: Accurate on both parts. Moss is not a leash, and Moss does not know where Roma is. (Roma is in a bar attempting to close a sale.)


Inaccurate. The sentence implies a causal relationship between being on a leash and knowing. This causal relationship is unproved and, moreover, very much in doubt.
posted by amtho at 7:49 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


I understand from an interview of Ray Liotta on Fresh Air that Joe Pesci ad libbed the funny-like-a-clown speech.
posted by indubitable at 7:52 AM on September 19, 2016


Is this the horrible-yet-inevitable result of a Trump candidacy? Now we actually have to do this, retroactively, to every line from every movie ever made, to figure out where to put the [not serious] tags?
posted by Mayor West at 7:54 AM on September 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


Inaccurate. The sentence implies a causal relationship between being on a leash and knowing. This causal relationship is unproved and, moreover, very much in doubt.

I think you're misreading; the quote is "not a leash" as opposed to "not on a leash". Moss is saying he is not a leash as a metaphorical way of indicating that he is not in charge of controlling and tracking the movement of other members of the office; if he were a "leash" then he would likely know where Roma was as the function of a "leash" is to be connected to, and assist in the direction of, whatever creature is on the end of the leash.

Now, it is entirely possible that this is a veiled reference to something more literal in terms of Roma's sexual identity and preferences, and that the leash is not a metaphorical way of speaking at all, but I'm hard pressed to find any textual support for that.
posted by nubs at 7:59 AM on September 19, 2016


Metafilter: itself indicates that "loser" and "winner" are both mutable transitive states on our slow march to the grave.
posted by lalochezia at 8:02 AM on September 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


HENRY (to Tommy, nervously): I don’t know, just … you know, how you tell the story. What?

Fact check: Inaccurate. Tommy does not know.

TOMMY (to Henry): No, no I don’t know.

Fact check: See? Told you.
posted by Splunge at 8:03 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


A few sentences into the introduction it is already on shaky ground:
Early in the movie, Blake, a very successful person from an unnamed place, arrives at the office.
Inaccurate. He is from downtown. Mitch and Murray sent him.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:08 AM on September 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


ricochet biscuit: "A few sentences into the introduction it is already on shaky ground:
Early in the movie, Blake, a very successful person from an unnamed place, arrives at the office.
Inaccurate. He is from downtown. Mitch and Murray sent him.
"

Inaccurate. Downtown is a general area which contains many points, each of which is a place. He is from any downtown point or place, thus unknown.

Or something.
posted by Splunge at 8:13 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


Fact check: This is a shtick that's going to get real old real fast.

Fact Check: Based on how much looser he plays the Goodfellas speech versus the Glengarry one I'm inclined to agree. That said, I'm a bit shocked that this didn't start with A Few Good Men, whose famous scene is very much entwined with truth and falsehood.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 8:19 AM on September 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


based on my extensive knowledge of this film i am here to point out that it is actually a work of fiction and thus none of the stuff in it is true

or else all of it is true, i forget how that works
posted by beerperson at 8:25 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


In fiction, truth. In truth, fiction.

On internet? Nits, picked; snark, applied.
posted by nubs at 8:33 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


It took me a couple of viewings to recognize the bait and switch that is Goodfellas. Sure, Tommy DeVito is a loose cannon and prone to violence, but he's a bit like one of those hair-trigger gunslingers from the wild west (he actually has a few lines of genuine cowboy dialogue that I had not noticed before), and he duplicates the gunslinger firing into the audience at the end of The Great Train Robbery.

Because Pesci plays this sort of roiling temper so well, he seems like he's the film's psychopath. But he ain't. It's James "Jimmy the Gent" Conway that's the dangerous one. We see Pesci kill, what, two people, Billy Batts and Spider, both in temper tantrums?

Guess who is there with him both time, also kicking Batts to death and promoting the killing of Spider? Conway. And Conway kills everybody. He pretty much kills every single person who is involved in the Lufthansa heist. He nearly kills Karen. He likely had designs to kill Henry. And he does it methodically, sometimes operatically, like killing the couple in the car they bought, or hanging the guy who bought the fur coat in a meat locker.

Devito is just a wanna-be, a punk who loses his temper, a too-quick-on-the-draw cowboy who stupidly draws on the wrong guy. But Conway is the one to watch out for. He'll kill you just so he doesn't have to think about you.
posted by maxsparber at 8:35 AM on September 19, 2016 [13 favorites]


Fact Check: Inaccurate. Lt. Kaffee in fact just asked for the truth and has been looking for the truth through the entire film and may in fact be able to handle the truth. Colonel Jessep's misjudgment of who may or may not handle the truth leads to his own court martial.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 8:37 AM on September 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


"Devito is just a wanna-be, a punk who loses his temper, a too-quick-on-the-draw cowboy who stupidly draws on the wrong guy. But Conway is the one to watch out for"

Fact check: accurate.
posted by kevinbelt at 8:44 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


Fact Check: Accurate. Colonel Jessep's "you" in "you can't handle the truth" is made clear by his following explanation to refer to the general population, not merely Lt. Kaffee. Colonel Jessep argues the essentially incontrovertible truth that the general population cannot endure the cognitive dissonance that would be associated with wanting a robust security apparatus run by the U.S. government while also being aware of the cruel discipline necessary to ensure that security apparatus maintains effectiveness.
posted by skewed at 8:47 AM on September 19, 2016


Fact check: Inaccurate. Luke's father was not murdered by Darth Vader, he in fact became Darth Vader.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:47 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


Face check: Accurate. Never again was in fact what you swore the time before.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:51 AM on September 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


Luke's father was not murdered by Darth Vader, he in fact became Darth Vader.

Fact Check: Truth depends on your point of view, according to noted philosopher Ben Kenobi.
posted by nubs at 8:51 AM on September 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


Fact check: Partially accurate. Many days do seem like Sunday, but not every day. Similarly, depending on your location, it may frequently be silent and gray, but not all of the time.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:53 AM on September 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


Fact check: Wu is not a golfer.
posted by beerperson at 8:59 AM on September 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


I donna know, Devito is terrifying because he'll kill/mess you up for absolutely no reason except maybe he doesn't like the expression on your face, at least with Conway there is a "good" reason for him to kill you.
posted by Pembquist at 9:00 AM on September 19, 2016


I've seen Goodfellas probably close to a dozen times, and it never occurred to me until now that Tommy's joking "you may fold under questioning" in that scene foreshadows the end of the movie.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:02 AM on September 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


Fact Check: Truth depends on your point of view, according to noted philosopher Ben Kenobi.

Fact Check: Even from Kenobi's point of view, Annakin Skywalker was the same persons as Darth Vader, and Kenobi's conscious mythologization of the transformation as a "murder" is a transparent attempt to de-emphasize his own role in the millions of deaths Vader later caused.
posted by skewed at 9:03 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


"I'm getting too old for this shit"
Fact Check: Inaccurate. Murtaugh is not too old for this shit, as witnessed by his ongoing ability to deal with said shit.

"You're going to need a bigger boat"
Fact check: Partially Accurate. There was a need for a bigger boat to deal with the shark as evidenced by the fact that the boat sank. However, some of the damage to the boat was done by Quint in his reckless pursuit of the shark.

"I'm the King of the World!"
Fact Check: Partially Accurate. Jack Dawson was not literally King of the World, but his words may be an accurate reflection of his inner state at that moment of triumph and freedom.
posted by nubs at 9:03 AM on September 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


The real life guy Pesci is based on really did kill a guy utterly randomly:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_DeSimone

DeSimone committed what is believed to have been his first murder on March 15, 1968 at the age of 17. He was walking down the street with Hill when DeSimone spotted Howard Goldstein, a passing pedestrian, a random stranger unknown to either gangster. Hill recalls DeSimone turning to him and saying, "Hey, Henry, watch this." DeSimone yelled, "Hey, cocksucker!", pulled out a .38 caliber pistol, and shot and killed Goldstein. Hill exclaimed, "That was cold-blooded, Tommy!" DeSimone replied, "Well, I'm a mean cat."[5]

Cold blooded mob killers like Conway, meanwhile, will cold bloodedly leave you alone if you stay away from them.
posted by ocschwar at 9:04 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


there's a lot to be said about whether the assertion that Blake drives a BMW is accurate.
posted by ennui.bz at 9:05 AM on September 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


there's a lot to be said about whether the assertion that Blake drives a BMW is accurate.


His behavior in the office is strong evidence that the assertion is true.
posted by ocschwar at 9:05 AM on September 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


Why is it "accurate" that his name is Blake, that he came from Mitch and Murray, that he came there in an $80,000 BMW? All we have is Blake's word on that, and the article itself makes it clear that Blake is frequently incorrect or simply lying. Surely he knows that his name is not FUCK YOU. That makes it a deliberate lie.

So it could be even worse than some simple mistakes on Blake's part, say that the blue book value of his BMW has gone down to around $72,000 since the last time he checked. It could well be a deliberate deception. For all we know, Blake may not even have a BMW.

I'm just saying there's a lot of taking Blake at his word in this piece, and I'm not sure that's justified under the circumstances.
posted by Naberius at 9:07 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


Fact check: Inaccurate. There is no evidence that Lebowski's apartment had any overarching thematic decorative design at all, particularly one that depended on the presence or absence of an unmicturated-upon rug.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:10 AM on September 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


Is this the horrible-yet-inevitable result of a Trump candidacy? Now we actually have to do this, retroactively, to every line from every movie ever made, to figure out where to put the [not serious] tags?


No, not every movie speech, just the ones that sound like something Trump might say himself.
posted by gusottertrout at 9:11 AM on September 19, 2016


Metafilter: Pony request

Fact check: Inaccurate. Poster does not, in fact, want a pony.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 9:14 AM on September 19, 2016


Fact check: Accurate. Jules' wallet is the one that says "bad motherfucker."
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:16 AM on September 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


Statement: "I'll be back!"
Fact check: True. Not only did the Terminator immediately return to the police station, but he returns again and again in four following movies.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:18 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


I still want to know what fourth prize is.
posted by ckape at 9:18 AM on September 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


I still want to know what fourth prize is.

I believe that several people will be tying for third.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:21 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


BLAKE (to everyone): Oh, have I got your attention now?
Fact check: Accurate. He has each man’s attention.


He does this several times. Blake asked a question. By it's nature, it's neither accurate nor inaccurate. When someone asks "have I got your attention," the question is not more accurate when they have your attention than it is when they don't have you attention.
posted by layceepee at 9:22 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


remember back when Sangermaine predicted that this gimmick would become tired very quickly
posted by beerperson at 9:26 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


remember back when Sangermaine predicted that this gimmick would become tired very quickly

Fact check: We do remember, and Sangermaine was accurate.
posted by maxsparber at 9:29 AM on September 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


Great now I have to dig up the "Coffee's for closers" dance remix I found on the internet oh-so-long ago.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 9:32 AM on September 19, 2016


Next you'll say that Metafilter: [quote] is tired.

Which is Partly Accurate.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:35 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


Fact check: Partially accurate. We remember, and it is plausible that Sangermaine has worthwhile things to do that would make this seem individually uninteresting, but it is also true that Slarty Bartfast would rather do anything than catch up on the paperwork he should be doing.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:35 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


I now want to see a version of the "Coffee is for closers" speech where Blake is fact-checked and quibbled with after each line.

"Do you mean all coffee, everywhere? Or just this coffee here? Because your language is a little imprecise."

"Your name is FUCK YOU? No offense, but do you have a driver's license or some ID? I'd like to see."
posted by nubs at 9:38 AM on September 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


Species, 1995.

Michelle Williams is on a train, has sprouted tentacles and garbage bags, and has eaten a railroad employee. Afterwards, she turned into Natasha Henstridge and departed. Smithson, played by Forest Whitaker, enters after the scene has been discovered by the appropriate government agencies and observes the remains of the railroad employee, blood and alien bodily fluids splattered liberally about, and an alien cocoon thing made of garbage bags affixed to one wall of the compartment.

SMITHSON: Something bad happened here.

Fact check: Accurate. The thing that happened there was bad, at least by human reckoning.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:39 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


Fact check: Michelle Williams was 15 when Species came out. Perhaps you are thinking of Natasha Henstridge?
posted by maxsparber at 9:44 AM on September 19, 2016


Both of the scenes being fact checked are great scenes and both are studies in toxic masculinity.
posted by maxwelton at 9:47 AM on September 19, 2016


Fact check: Michelle Williams played Young Sil in the government lab and getting onto the train. Later, Ms. Williams extruded tentacles and garbage bags to turn into a rather vulvy cocoon on the wall. Ms. Henstridge would eventually emerge from this cocoon like a beautiful butterfly, if butterflies emerge naked, upside down, and covered in goo.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:53 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


Isn't that pretty much how butterflies *do* emerge?
posted by Chrysostom at 9:59 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


Fact check: The fact that Species has Michelle Williams in it makes me like it all the more.
posted by maxsparber at 10:12 AM on September 19, 2016


I've seen Goodfellas probably close to a dozen times, and it never occurred to me until now that Tommy's joking "you may fold under questioning" in that scene foreshadows the end of the movie.

I think that scene is like a miniature distilled version of Goodfellas in which each character reveals who they really are and the destinies they will meet. Henry turns out to be a nervous rat; Tommy falls short of becoming a made man, his election undone by his temperamental violence; Conway is wary and watchful -- and too fond of Henry (he shoulda finished him when he was finishing up the rest of the heist crew ).
posted by notyou at 10:23 AM on September 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


I still want to know what fourth prize is.

Fourth prize is also a Cadillac El Dorado. Sorrry, I'm a motivational speaker, not some rational incentive plan designer type.
posted by zippy at 10:40 AM on September 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


Take me a few notches down the Cadillac board!
posted by maxsparber at 10:44 AM on September 19, 2016


That said, I'm a bit shocked that this didn't start with A Few Good Men, whose famous scene is very much entwined with truth and falsehood.

THAT would be a good idea (even though I'm not a fan of the movie). Fact-checking dialogue vs. the actual, critical plot details could be interesting.

This:

BLAKE (still to everyone): You get the picture? Are you laughing now? You got leads. Mitch and Murray paid good money. Get their names to sell them!
Fact check: There are several things to fact-check here. Accurate: They get the picture. Inaccurate: They are not laughing now (nor were they laughing earlier).


How can questions be fact-checked?
posted by mrgrimm at 10:44 AM on September 19, 2016


How can questions be fact-checked?

Fact check: Like this.
posted by maxsparber at 10:45 AM on September 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


Also, I'm not really a Pacino fan, but his monologue blows Baldwin's away, both in content and in delivery.

Fuck little girls? So be it.

That would be much more interesting (and complex) to "fact check."
posted by mrgrimm at 10:47 AM on September 19, 2016


"Devito is just a wanna-be, a punk who loses his temper, a too-quick-on-the-draw cowboy who stupidly draws on the wrong guy. But Conway is the one to watch out for"

Fact check: accurate.


Having never paid attention to the last names in Goodfellas, I connected this to Taxi instead. Oddly, it may still hold true.
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:47 AM on September 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


Fact check: Inaccurate. There is no evidence that Lebowski's apartment had any overarching thematic decorative design at all, particularly one that depended on the presence or absence of an unmicturated-upon rug.

Fact check fact check: Any rug, regardless of colour or pattern, can become the focal area of a sitting room and as such would, colloquially, 'tie the room together.'
posted by Flashman at 10:57 AM on September 19, 2016


"- and too fond of Henry (he shoulda finished him when he was finishing up the rest of the heist crew )."

Haha, he shoulda... except that Henry started getting into this dealing gig that brought in some more money, which was why he was fond of him. Otherwise Henry probably would've just ended up with the rest of the heist crew. Which is never actually spoken in the film, but it's an implied undertone that leads to the ending.
posted by ovvl at 11:27 AM on September 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


Isn't that pretty much how butterflies *do* emerge?

Fact check: I may be able to traipse through the stars and summon gridfire's fury from the foundations of the universe, but I am not a butterflyologist or really any sort of bugologist.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:56 AM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


Glengarry Glen Ross Script: Glengarry Glen Ross characters say things.

Fact Check: accurate. Just take a soul killing drive through the Chicago suburbs.
posted by ocschwar at 12:40 PM on September 19, 2016


I'm just saying there's a lot of taking Blake at his word in this piece, and I'm not sure that's justified under the circumstances.

I am now quite taken with the thought that Blake was not even sent by Mitch and Murray; he was a random stranger who walked in off the street.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 1:11 PM on September 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


Captain Kirk: Well, opinions?
Fact check: Accurate. He does indeed want opinions.

Chekov: I think we're in a lot of trouble.
Fact check: Accurate. They are in a lot of trouble.

Captain Kirk: That's a great help, Mr. Chekov. Bones?
Fact check: Inaccurate. It was not any help.

McCoy: I think Chekov's right, we are in a lot of trouble.
Fact check: Accurate. Chekov is right.

Captain Kirk: Spock, and if you say we're in a lot of trouble...
Fact check. Joke incoming.

Spock: We are.
Fact check: Accurate. They are. Also, I told you so.
posted by Splunge at 1:29 PM on September 19, 2016


Fourth prize is also a Cadillac El Dorado.

Fact check: Accurate. It has already been established that real estate agencies are very bad at prize-level pacing.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:03 PM on September 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


Fact check: rain on your wedding day and a traffic jam when you are already late are merely common occurrences and are not inherently ironic (and Michael Reid Roberts is also wrong, as is anybody who cites Kierkegaard to attempt to explain a pop song). These events could be ironic only if paired with additional circumstances, but such circumstances are not explained in the song.
posted by zachlipton at 3:11 PM on September 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


there's a lot to be said about whether the assertion that Blake drives a BMW is accurate.

What? It's parked outside the office! And the price was pretty accurate, too.
posted by ambrosen at 3:18 PM on September 19, 2016


This is hilarious, and it pisses me off. What it seems to say is "what are we doing these days fact-checking everything and everybody? It's all just good fun, right? Am I right?

No, you're wrong [fact check: you're likely not wrong, but you're also likely why we're fucked.]

There's this sense I get of people thinking what happened to the good old times, when people stuck to the facts... That time never existed. Candidates have been hurling swift-boat Trump-style shit all over the place since the beginning of time (well certainly since Cicero). Only now we use it as an excuse to disengage.

The thing that used to exist is not fact, it's good faith and people's perception of it. Because we may not be able to spend an hour doing original research about every single Trump fart, but we sure as hell know good faith (or lack of it) when we see it.

Thinking oh, some people argue from fact and some don't is a red herring. There's no such thing as an indisputable fact, and there's very few things people of good faith can't disagree on. But that's not why we're fucked. We're fucked because while facts remain debatable, arguing in good faith is now a losing game.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 3:33 PM on September 19, 2016


Fact check: Partly accurate. Sam does, in fact, play it again, but in the movie no-one ever actually says "Play it again, Sam."
posted by No-sword at 3:38 PM on September 19, 2016


Fact check: Inaccurate. None of the people apprehended by the police given the order to "round up the usual suspects" appears in the movie The Usual Suspects.
posted by zachlipton at 3:49 PM on September 19, 2016


Fact check: this dumb. True. We judge this true.
posted by hwestiii at 3:57 PM on September 19, 2016


Fact check: False. There's nobody else here. Travis is talking to himself.
posted by rhizome at 6:07 PM on September 19, 2016


That Glengarry Glen Ross bit was so fucking funny, I just about killed myself laughing. I'm not going to read the other one in the interests of personal health and safety.

Fact Check: Partially accurate. Laughing at the Glengarry Glen Ross bit caused me to have a fairly significant asthma attack, and I do not currently have a rescue inhaler because I forgot to pack one for this trip. However, my asthma is generally not life threatening, so while I will likely be uncomfortable for a day or two, especially since I already have a cold, there is little chance I will die. Also, if it seems more likely that I will die in the near future, I can go to the hospital and get dosed with ventalin if necessary. I have, however, chosen not to read the other article in order to avoid exacerbating the situation.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:37 PM on September 19, 2016


Inaccurate: that may be, but is not guaranteed to be what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps.
posted by ctmf at 8:55 PM on September 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


Many strangers have been found in the Alps, with a variety of outcomes.
posted by rhizome at 11:24 PM on September 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


Fact Check: Inaccurate. Brad clearly speaks English.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 3:14 AM on September 20, 2016


Blake asked a question. By it's nature, it's neither accurate nor inaccurate.

How can questions be fact-checked?

Fact check: Inaccurate. Questions can be fact-checked if they are rhetorical questions with an implied answer ("Oh, have I got your attention now?"), or are based on a premise which may or may not be correct ("Have you stopped beating your husband?"), or are intended to insinuate something while not technically lying by phrasing it as a question ("Does Hillary Clinton have Rigellian Bone Epistaxis?")
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 4:17 AM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]


Question posed in dialogue, but not answered: Jeffrey needed his johnson to help Maude conceive. This having happened, it is unclear if he will need it again.
posted by ambrosen at 4:40 AM on September 20, 2016


Commentary: This feels like having a film narrated by HK-47.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:44 AM on September 20, 2016


Two guys in the gym where I work, every morning for the last 17 years or so: "How the fuck am I funny? Funny how? Like a clown? Do I amuse you?" Every. Single. Day. It never gets old for them. I think movies have been made since, I'm just not 100% sure.
posted by fixedgear at 4:47 AM on September 20, 2016


Fact check: Inaccurate. Attending a high school for seven and a half years is in fact an indicator of low intelligence.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:43 AM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]


Fact check: Inaccurate. Questions can be fact-checked if they are rhetorical questions with an implied answer ("Oh, have I got your attention now?")

Is the rhetorical question accurate if he has their attention, or accurate if he doesn't?

In what sense does the question, even if it's rhetorical, have a factual basis that can be evaluated? If it's a rhetorical question, it seems to me that the point of it is to say, "Pay attention!" I don't see how you can evaluate that for accuracy, either.
posted by layceepee at 9:17 AM on September 20, 2016


To be sure, he cannot have the attention of anybody not listening.
posted by rhizome at 10:00 AM on September 20, 2016


If it's a rhetorical question, it seems to me that the point of it is to say, "Pay attention!" I don't see how you can evaluate that for accuracy, either.

Fair point, some rhetorical questions can be commands, commands can likewise not be evaluated for accuracy, and upon reflection I agree that "Oh, have I got your attention now?" is best read as the command "pay attention." (In an earlier version of this comment I tried to argue that it should be read as "now you are paying attention," but that doesn't fit nearly as well as "pay attention," does it?)

That said, I maintain that some rhetorical questions are intended as statements, and those can be fact-checked. Such questions have an implied answer, and the implied answer can be checked. The implied answer must often be understood by context and tone of voice; the words of the rhetorical question alone may not be sufficient to determine the implied answer. For example, "'The leads are weak.' Fucking leads are weak? You’re weak." Here, "Fucking leads are weak?" is a rhetorical question by which Blake means the leads are not weak.

(I was going to propose "I’m funny how, I mean funny like I’m a clown?" as a rhetorical question meant as a statement, Tommy saying he is not funny like a clown, but, but upon further thought that's probably best parsed as an actual question, in the context of Tommy pretending not to understand how Henry finds him funny.)

I'll agree that most of the questions in these two scenes are either actual questions or commands phrased as rhetorical questions, in which case they would not be subject to rigorous fact-checking, but may be "fact-checked" for humorous effect. (YMMV as to how successful the attempt at humor is.) I stand by my general point that some questions can be subject to fact-checking.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 10:34 AM on September 20, 2016


Regarding real estate prize pacing: The whole point of second place being steak knives when first is a fancy new car is that you didn't do well enough to get the car, but almost did. If you keep the knives, every time you use them, you'll be reminded that if you just put a bit more effort in, you'd be driving a dream machine.

I've won third prize in contests like this.
posted by maxwelton at 10:50 AM on September 20, 2016


Fact check: Likely incorrect. While Matt may not know how people got cats wedged in their scanners, it seems probably he realized that it was for their amusement.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:25 PM on September 20, 2016


Fact check: false. The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, not the Germans.
posted by rhizome at 4:37 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]


^ Note example of a question which can be fact-checked as to an assumption behind the question.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 4:46 PM on September 20, 2016


Once you understand "begging the question," the jokes just write themselves.
posted by rhizome at 11:32 PM on September 20, 2016


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