Control Not Justice
September 20, 2016 12:54 PM Subscribe
Every year, the vast majority of murders in Chicago go unsolved. The city's homicide-clearance rate of 26% (a case is cleared as soon as someone is charged) is less than half the national average. The rate for non-fatal shootings is 10%. Meaning, if you shoot someone in Chicago, you have a pretty good chance of getting away with it. Alex Kotlowitz writes here about how Chicago law enforcement's abysmal homicide-clearance rate may be contributing to violence in the city. (previously)
I guess we're not supposed to tell the police they're bad at their jobs, because then they'll go out of their way to do even worse?
I know that this is a common refrain (see, e.g. police "work slowdowns" ugh), but I didn't get that from the linked article.
I think their might be a correlation --> causation problem with the thrust of the piece though: Police have trouble clearing murders (in part) because people don't want to testify (in part) because the police can't keep them from getting murdered in retaliation. That's a cycle that I don't see an easy way to break.
Of course the police could be doing more to stop doing the things that make people not trust them which might bring them more community cooperation, but when it comes down to it, if you can't keep murderers off of the streets, why would anyone want to make themselves a target of a murderer?
posted by sparklemotion at 1:55 PM on September 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
I know that this is a common refrain (see, e.g. police "work slowdowns" ugh), but I didn't get that from the linked article.
I think their might be a correlation --> causation problem with the thrust of the piece though: Police have trouble clearing murders (in part) because people don't want to testify (in part) because the police can't keep them from getting murdered in retaliation. That's a cycle that I don't see an easy way to break.
Of course the police could be doing more to stop doing the things that make people not trust them which might bring them more community cooperation, but when it comes down to it, if you can't keep murderers off of the streets, why would anyone want to make themselves a target of a murderer?
posted by sparklemotion at 1:55 PM on September 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
The police in Chicago blame everyone and everything except themselves.
posted by agregoli at 2:20 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by agregoli at 2:20 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Chicago Police could have a 100% clearance rate and it wouldn't have an effect of the underlying troubles in the city's poor neighborhoods. Solving murders doesn't solve decades of structural inequality.
posted by boubelium at 2:45 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by boubelium at 2:45 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
New York can find a terrorist in about 5 hours. Do Chicago police even look?
posted by shoesietart at 3:51 PM on September 20, 2016
posted by shoesietart at 3:51 PM on September 20, 2016
Bomber was caught in New Jersey and he did not even really try to hide. Is that the comparison?
posted by clavdivs at 4:09 PM on September 20, 2016
posted by clavdivs at 4:09 PM on September 20, 2016
The murder and victim rates in Chicago are so so high. I can't find a kindergarden class in inner city chicago where none of the kids are impacted by gun violence.
It is seriously rough and in some places it's just outright dangerous to exsist much less stand out. There are so many discriminating factors are so pervasive and multifaceted.
I do home visits and used to do low income housing for previously homeless adults. Everybody I work with has a household member who is very disabled.
It's common for me to ho into homes where the first floor windows are bullet proof plexiglass a half inch thick. I work with plenty of spinal cord injuries from gun violence. I've seen plenty of bullet holes, been close to a many if drug deals, heard shootings midday.
And when people do tell it gets ugly- like pouring gasoline on someone walking down the street midday and lighting the on fire ugly.
For many of these people there is no way out and existing and causing no waves is dangerous enough.
The police amplify matters, and just stop trying. There is no meaningful safetynet.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:48 PM on September 20, 2016 [6 favorites]
It is seriously rough and in some places it's just outright dangerous to exsist much less stand out. There are so many discriminating factors are so pervasive and multifaceted.
I do home visits and used to do low income housing for previously homeless adults. Everybody I work with has a household member who is very disabled.
It's common for me to ho into homes where the first floor windows are bullet proof plexiglass a half inch thick. I work with plenty of spinal cord injuries from gun violence. I've seen plenty of bullet holes, been close to a many if drug deals, heard shootings midday.
And when people do tell it gets ugly- like pouring gasoline on someone walking down the street midday and lighting the on fire ugly.
For many of these people there is no way out and existing and causing no waves is dangerous enough.
The police amplify matters, and just stop trying. There is no meaningful safetynet.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:48 PM on September 20, 2016 [6 favorites]
From the article...
Among the things that the mayor is sure to call for in his address this week are lengthier sentences for people caught with illegal guns, which has been the drumbeat from his administration and the police department for the past several years. Nearly half of those people arrested for murder last year were repeat gun offenders. In fact, one of the brothers arrested in the murder of Aldridge had previously been convicted for unlawfully carrying a weapon. “Clearly they don’t think there’s a consequence to their actions,” Johnson, the police superintendent, said recently
(Perhaps unsurprisingly), I really, really disagree. I do not know the solution to curbing gun violence, but I don't think that longer and longer prison sentences for catching people with illegal guns is the answer. Here in Kentucky, a felon in possession of a handgun is pretty much guaranteed a minimum sentence of 5 years in prison if it's a first offense, 10-20 or even 50 if they have other predicate felony convictions. And I don't mean someone caught shooting a gun, or using a gun in another crime. I'm talking about run of the mill, police stop a person carrying a gun (or worse, execute a search warrant, arrest everyone in the house, and charge the convicted felon with felon-in-possession) = 5 years, best. Because if there are other crimes associated with the firearm -- for example, if the person is shooting the gun -- then they're looking at wanton endangerment, assault, or attempted murder charges on top of the possession charge. And convicted felons-in-possession is not a small percentage of people filling Kentucky prisons, and I'd wager in prisons across the country.
Perhaps more importantly, though, there is basically no evidence to think that this much incarceration as punishment for gun possession by the wrong people actually has any kind of deterrent effect on people illegally possessing guns. Because for a lot of people, for better or for worse, the choice is carry a gun and run the risk of law enforcement OR akin to what many people perceive as bringing a knife to a gun fight.
Like I said, I don't know what would curb murder rates, and perhaps solving more murders would in fact do that. But I don't know that increasing the already harsh punishments for felon-in-possession or receiving-stolen-property-firearm is the way to go about this. It seems to me kind of like thinking that if we just incarcerate people at the get-go for more minor gun-related offenses, they won't be out committing murders. Which like, hello not good public policy.
posted by likeatoaster at 5:07 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Among the things that the mayor is sure to call for in his address this week are lengthier sentences for people caught with illegal guns, which has been the drumbeat from his administration and the police department for the past several years. Nearly half of those people arrested for murder last year were repeat gun offenders. In fact, one of the brothers arrested in the murder of Aldridge had previously been convicted for unlawfully carrying a weapon. “Clearly they don’t think there’s a consequence to their actions,” Johnson, the police superintendent, said recently
(Perhaps unsurprisingly), I really, really disagree. I do not know the solution to curbing gun violence, but I don't think that longer and longer prison sentences for catching people with illegal guns is the answer. Here in Kentucky, a felon in possession of a handgun is pretty much guaranteed a minimum sentence of 5 years in prison if it's a first offense, 10-20 or even 50 if they have other predicate felony convictions. And I don't mean someone caught shooting a gun, or using a gun in another crime. I'm talking about run of the mill, police stop a person carrying a gun (or worse, execute a search warrant, arrest everyone in the house, and charge the convicted felon with felon-in-possession) = 5 years, best. Because if there are other crimes associated with the firearm -- for example, if the person is shooting the gun -- then they're looking at wanton endangerment, assault, or attempted murder charges on top of the possession charge. And convicted felons-in-possession is not a small percentage of people filling Kentucky prisons, and I'd wager in prisons across the country.
Perhaps more importantly, though, there is basically no evidence to think that this much incarceration as punishment for gun possession by the wrong people actually has any kind of deterrent effect on people illegally possessing guns. Because for a lot of people, for better or for worse, the choice is carry a gun and run the risk of law enforcement OR akin to what many people perceive as bringing a knife to a gun fight.
Like I said, I don't know what would curb murder rates, and perhaps solving more murders would in fact do that. But I don't know that increasing the already harsh punishments for felon-in-possession or receiving-stolen-property-firearm is the way to go about this. It seems to me kind of like thinking that if we just incarcerate people at the get-go for more minor gun-related offenses, they won't be out committing murders. Which like, hello not good public policy.
posted by likeatoaster at 5:07 PM on September 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Only so many resources to go around and the last I heard, Chicago Police already had their hands full trying to stay on top of marijuana use in City neighborhoods.
(The article is a couple of years old, but reform—if it happens at all—proceeds at a glacial pace in Chicago.)
posted by she's not there at 1:17 AM on September 21, 2016
(The article is a couple of years old, but reform—if it happens at all—proceeds at a glacial pace in Chicago.)
posted by she's not there at 1:17 AM on September 21, 2016
There have also been huge disruptions in gang territories as of late. Police arrested a whole bunch of people in I think three different areas and then left gaping holes with no community or police support where there was some stability and routine, even if it was criminal stability and routine.
My nieghborhood, which is generally rather quiet has had some increased violence over this.
posted by AlexiaSky at 9:05 AM on September 21, 2016
My nieghborhood, which is generally rather quiet has had some increased violence over this.
posted by AlexiaSky at 9:05 AM on September 21, 2016
Bomber was caught in New Jersey and he did not even really try to hide. Is that the comparison?
Apparently, killers in Chicago don't need to hide either.
posted by shoesietart at 5:46 PM on September 22, 2016
Apparently, killers in Chicago don't need to hide either.
posted by shoesietart at 5:46 PM on September 22, 2016
People who have any kind of hope generally aren't shooting each other. The best deterrence is not "solving murders" but fixing the situations that create desperate people. Or what boubelium said.
posted by aspersioncast at 4:32 PM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by aspersioncast at 4:32 PM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
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posted by tclark at 12:58 PM on September 20, 2016