I, Racist
September 21, 2016 9:36 AM   Subscribe

White people do not think in terms of we. White people have the privilege to interact with the social and political structures of our society as individuals. You are “you,” I am “one of them.” Writer John Metta on how Black people have learned it's pointless to talk to white people about race.

Whites are often not directly affected by racial oppression even in their own community, so what does not affect them locally has little chance of affecting them regionally or nationally. They have no need, nor often any real desire, to think in terms of a group. They are supported by the system, and so are mostly unaffected by it. What they are affected by are attacks on their own character. To my aunt, the suggestion that “people in The North are racist” is an attack on her as a racist. She is unable to differentiate her participation within a racist system (upwardly mobile, not racially profiled, able to move to White suburbs, etc.) from an accusation that she, individually, is a racist. Without being able to make that differentiation, White people in general decide to vigorously defend their own personal non-racism, or point out that it doesn't exist because they don't see it. The result of this is an incessantly repeating argument where a Black person says “Racism still exists. It is real,” and a white person argues “You're wrong, I'm not racist at all. I don't even see any racism.” My aunt’s immediate response is not “that is wrong, we should do better.” No, her response is self-protection: “That’s not my fault, I didn't do anything. You are wrong.”
posted by Bella Donna (27 comments total)

This post was deleted for the following reason: Double. This thread got off on a derail immediately and the entire discussion is about the derail rather than the article. Originally suggest a repost tomorrow but we've noticed it's a double from last year. -- Eyebrows McGee



 
Why then a speech to white people on not talking to white people? and then 25 books by Black writers dealing mostly on race issues? If Blacks do not talk about race and whites do not want/understand Blacks talking about race, what, when, how will anything change, if at all?
posted by Postroad at 9:48 AM on September 21, 2016


What I believe he means is "discussing with", not literally "addressing." As a white person, it's my job to listen on these matters, to lift up other voices, and to speak to other white people about doing the same.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:51 AM on September 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


> Why then a speech to white people on not talking to white people? and then 25 books by Black writers dealing mostly on race issues? If Blacks do not talk about race and whites do not want/understand Blacks talking about race, what, when, how will anything change, if at all?

Did you read it?

"So I'm asking you to help me. Notice this. Speak up. Don't let it slide. Don’t stand watching in silence. Help build a world where it never gets to the point where the Samaritan has to see someone bloodied and broken."

Maybe you can just listen, Postroad. Maybe you can not talk for a while and just listen to and read the words and think about them.
posted by rtha at 9:54 AM on September 21, 2016 [25 favorites]


As a white person, it's my job to listen on these matters, to lift up other voices, and to speak to other white people about doing the same.

The white people who think their role is to listen and disseminate what black people say, are probably the ones who already agree with what those black people are saying.

(Although if they try restating it with jargon like "lift up other voices", it might sound more like corporate-speak than something important. "Let's leverage our core competency as privileged individuals to reshift the paradigm of race relations.")
posted by Rangi at 9:55 AM on September 21, 2016 [7 favorites]


If Blacks do not talk about race and whites do not want/understand Blacks talking about race, what, when, how will anything change, if at all?

Those two sentences are not unrelated. According to the essay, black people don't like to talk to white people about race because white people are so bad at listening to black people.

Don't like that circumstance? Well, maybe instead of expecting black people to keep talking at us, despite how shitty we might be about the topic, despite the fact that we don't listen, we get our feelings hurt, we contradict, we insist on our own expertise, we storm off when we don't get our way ...

Well, maybe if we learned to listen a little better, black people would be more comfortable talking with us about the topic. Maybe it's our turn to do some of the work.
posted by maxsparber at 9:57 AM on September 21, 2016 [10 favorites]


From the article:“The only difference between people in the North and people in the South is that down here, at least people are honest about being racist.”

As someone from the South who enjoys Metafilter immensely, but often find it really sad how threads involving the South (even when they aren't about racism, which is totally an issue that the South suffers from) go down, I appreciate this sentiment being expressed so concisely.

We all need to step it up regarding how folks are treated and punching down doesn't help as much as some might think.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:59 AM on September 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


White boy here. At this point I tell my fellow racists to engage black thought because they can explain better than I ever will. I tell them MLK failed and the civil rights movement largely failed. That if they want to understand BLM to go read Malcom X's autobio, and after that is done, maybe we can discuss further. It is exhausting being told white supremacy is a thing of the past.
posted by Strange_Robinson at 10:02 AM on September 21, 2016


The only people who think of themselves reflexively as "white" rather than "normal" or perhaps "doing just fine, thanks!" are supremacists.

Which is kind of the problem isn't it? We just unthinkingly claim the top of the pyramid and then say to ourselves "nobody built the stairs I climbed to get here".

In a weird way I think whites need to normalize the idea of racism just a tiny little bit, to the point where most people will be willing to admit to ourselves that yes, we are part of a racist system and benefit from racist assumptions and that makes us... racist. Thinking that racism is "something that the bad people do" turns out to be super counterproductive.

Obviously this is work that needs to be done amongst the people who benefit from racism and not minorities.
posted by selfnoise at 10:04 AM on September 21, 2016


(Although if they try restating it with jargon like "lift up other voices", it might sound more like corporate-speak than something important.

Huh, in re "lift up other voices", I've heard that turn of phrase from speakers at Black Lives Matter events, and had always assumed that it derived loosely from the rhetoric of "lifting up" in civil rights discourse, "Lift Every Voice and Sing", etc. I mean, it definitely isn't a turn of phrase that I use in the rest of my life, but it didn't seem especially corporate in that context.
posted by Frowner at 10:05 AM on September 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


White people do not think in terms of we. White people have the privilege to interact with the social and political structures of our society as individuals. You are “you,” I am “one of them.”

There should be a word for unexpected truths that kick you in the stomach.
posted by Mooski at 10:09 AM on September 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


The only people who think of themselves reflexively as "white" rather than "normal" or perhaps "doing just fine, thanks!" are supremacists.

But I thought that to anti-racists, thinking of "white" as "normal" was the problem? Because it views all other races as "others" and makes false assumptions about people (like if you're directing a movie for "normal/average" people and think "white==normal", it might turn out to be offensive to non-whites)?

Maybe you're suggesting that race should be broken down further? Like, think of oneself as French-American or Italian-American or Midwestern? But then "black" and "Asian-American" are similarly broad categories...
posted by Rangi at 10:10 AM on September 21, 2016


The only people who think of themselves reflexively as "white" rather than "normal" or perhaps "doing just fine, thanks!" are supremacists.

That isn't true at all. I think of myself as white every day, because my husband isn't white and neither are my kids, nor are most of my coworkers. I'm sure many white people who work closely with people of color are extremely aware of their whiteness. You can definitely be aware of your whiteness without celebrating it.
posted by the marble index at 10:13 AM on September 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


In a weird way I think whites need to normalize the idea of racism just a tiny little bit, to the point where most people will be willing to admit to ourselves that yes, we are part of a racist system and benefit from racist assumptions and that makes us... racist. Thinking that racism is "something that the bad people do" turns out to be super counterproductive.

This sounds like it could backfire. There's a useful concept of "benefiting from structural racism by virtue of your skin color" that applies to all white people, but there's also a useful concept of "intentionally bigoted and determined to maintain or increase the racist system" that applies to, say, the "racist/sexist/deplorable" basket. If the same word gets used for both concepts, then some progressive white people will be unjustly lumped in with KKK-type bigots, and some KKK-type bigots will evade any such accusations by saying "of course I'm racist, isn't everybody?"
posted by Rangi at 10:14 AM on September 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


Loving the Blue today with all of its good intersectional content. Thanks for posting this.
posted by Kitteh at 10:30 AM on September 21, 2016


This article in Salon by Kamau Bell and Adam Mansbach really spoke to me about taking some responsibility for the White race problems.
Apologies if I'm not crediting a Mefite for posting it earlier, I do not remember how I saw if first, but it likely started here.
posted by eggkeeper at 10:33 AM on September 21, 2016


In a weird way I think whites need to normalize the idea of racism just a tiny little bit, to the point where most people will be willing to admit to ourselves that yes, we are part of a racist system and benefit from racist assumptions and that makes us... racist. Thinking that racism is "something that the bad people do" turns out to be super counterproductive.

I don't think that it's fair to say that everyone who benefits from a racist system is themselves racist. It's the people who benefit from the racist system and refuse to acknowledge it, who implicitly believe that PoC who haven't achieved the same successes in life are just somehow inferior. Those are the racists, whether they will admit it to themselves or not.

At the same time, when non-racists take steps to perpetuate the racist system (for example, moving to a whiter school district because it's better), it's fair to call that out as a racist act, even if as Jay Smooth right say, it doesn't make the person racist.
posted by sparklemotion at 10:58 AM on September 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


This sounds like it could backfire.

It already has. I wouldn't say it was backfiring though as much as causing an extinction burst of teary-eyed white pride. When people who hate authority get constant reminders that whites benefit from racism, they get defensive, and start embracing it. We will beat them, but not before a lot of people get hurt and not before a lot of other "concerned" people blame anti-racists for "making it worse by dividing us". Don't blame the exterminator for creating bugs in your walls just because they are pouring out, Dilfer.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:59 AM on September 21, 2016


Maybe you can just listen, Postroad. Maybe you can not talk for a while and just listen to and read the words and think about them.
...
Well, maybe if we learned to listen a little better, black people would be more comfortable talking with us about the topic. Maybe it's our turn to do some of the work.
45 years ago, a pioneering anthology of African American literature appeared on the market at a crucial juncture in US racial history. By doing the work of assembling such a selection of previously marginalised voices, the editors enabled African American voices to be heard—and be taken seriously—in university English departments in a way they really hadn't been before. The anthology was assigned as prescribed reading in college classrooms across the nation, undoubtedly helping thousands of students come face to face with radically different understandings of American history and the American experience than they might have encountered before.

Wouldn't it be funny if one of the editors of that groundbreaking anthology, someone who had done far more practical "work" to advance the profile of black writing than your average internet commentator, were right here, in this thread, being lectured at by other whites who hadn't done a stick of that kind of useful labour in their lives? Wouldn't that be a rather heartbreaking illustration of what E. P. Thompson called "the enormous condescension of posterity"?
posted by Sonny Jim at 10:59 AM on September 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


I have explained systemic racism to white peoples or I love repeatedly. What is fascinating and frustrating is that I'm explaining this again to the same people because they can't seem to get their head around structural bias. There's a lot of racism 101 that white people who care can do because racism comes up a lot in semi-coded ways and jokes when it's just white people.

Another small thing white people can do is start labeling people as white. Since white is a default category, actually naming it to colorblind-racist people can shift the conversation.

A third thing white people can do is share black-centered media without labeling it as black. The experiences of individual black people is as individual and basic to life in the various countries they live in as anything else. Normalizing that through not using labels can shift the conversation.
posted by Deoridhe at 11:00 AM on September 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


Wouldn't it be funny if one of the editors of that groundbreaking anthology, someone who had done far more practical "work" to advance the profile of black writing than your average internet commentator, were right here, in this thread, being lectured at by other whites who hadn't done a stick of that kind of useful labour in their lives?

Is that person here? I'm sorry, I know nothing about the personal lives of anyone else on Metafilter and I'm wondering if I'm missing some more complex point here. Is this a hypothetical of some sort?
posted by AdamCSnider at 11:09 AM on September 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


I am a white man. I have no conscious bias toward my "race." I swim in entitlement, so I don't always have to acknowledge the racist floaters in the stream--they float about me here and there, and I paddle away from the Confederate Battle Flags and White Power shouters. Among my associates I'm usually critical of overtly racist talk--sexism and racism couched in humor--and I refuse to allow it in my house.

When I hear: "White therefore racist," I am obliged to suspend my reflexive defenses to get a glimpse of the message. If I don't lower my shields all I see is pain or anger, and sometimes the message is simply pain or anger. Maybe it's a trick of the language to respond to "you guys" with "these people." Maybe it's a trick of the language that makes it difficult to see when somebody is talking to me, not about me. Maybe it's some inner recognition that he might be talking about me, and I'm just simple enough not to get it.

I guess it's exhausting, having to reinvent the wheel with every new venue. The message is important. If we give up on dialogue, then what are our options?
posted by mule98J at 11:09 AM on September 21, 2016


Mod note: A few deleted; let's try to rerail this to the article rather than individual members, and avoid name-calling and sarcastic dismissal.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 11:11 AM on September 21, 2016


My dad rode with the freedom riders. That experience now makes him think he can lecture blacks (in the abstract) on being polite when the cops pull them over. He can't imagine that there is anything about segregation that is different from what he fought over in the 50s. I sleep just fine telling him he's full of crap.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:12 AM on September 21, 2016 [3 favorites]


It's not a hypothetical, AdamCSnider.
posted by Sonny Jim at 11:13 AM on September 21, 2016


> Wouldn't it be funny if one of the editors of that groundbreaking anthology, someone who had done far more practical "work" to advance the profile of black writing than your average internet commentator, were right here, in this thread, being lectured at by other whites

Wow talk about assumptions.
posted by rtha at 11:17 AM on September 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


The only people who think of themselves reflexively as "white" rather than "normal" or perhaps "doing just fine, thanks!" are supremacists.

But I thought that to anti-racists, thinking of "white" as "normal" was the problem?


Yes, that is one problem. Another problem is that white people don't think in terms of race except through deliberate, conscious effort, the same way that straight people don't think in terms of sexuality or cisgender people don't consider their gender identities. White people don't think of themselves as being white people participating in a white supremacy designed to uplift and protect people like them from everyone else. They don't think of how the fact of their whiteness may impact the way others look at them or interact with them. They don't engage with their whiteness every moment of every day, despite the fact that their whiteness has a constant influence on every one of those moments.

Why then a speech to white people on not talking to white people? and then 25 books by Black writers dealing mostly on race issues? If Blacks do not talk about race and whites do not want/understand Blacks talking about race, what, when, how will anything change, if at all?

It always amazes me when white people hear "I don't talk to white people about this" as "I don't talk about this", as if anything not said directly to and for the benefit/consumption of white people doesn't even exist. People talk about race all the time, and just because they're not addressing you personally doesn't mean you can't listen in and learn something.

Wouldn't it be funny if one of the editors of that groundbreaking anthology, someone who had done far more practical "work" to advance the profile of black writing than your average internet commentator, were right here, in this thread, being lectured at by other whites who hadn't done a stick of that kind of work in their lives?

One, you don't know what kind of work people here do in their lives. Two, I imagine that editor would be quite in agreement with the idea that black voices need to be heard more than they are and that white people need to make space, being the editor of an anthology attempting to do just that. Three, I imagine that editor, if free from this peculiar form of white fragility, would object strongly to the notion that their efforts to showcase minority voices should insulate them from any kind of future criticism on the subject, to say nothing of insulating other white people from that criticism on the basis of his having published one anthology half a century ago. Fourth, it is clear from your comment that one does not require posterity to provide enormous condescension.
posted by Errant at 11:18 AM on September 21, 2016 [5 favorites]


This specific issue about this user needs a meta.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:19 AM on September 21, 2016 [1 favorite]


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