Mr Plinkett's back
October 3, 2016 8:33 AM Subscribe
Is it still misogynistic as the last videos? I had to stop watching by the time I'd reached AOTC.
posted by Atreides at 8:46 AM on October 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Atreides at 8:46 AM on October 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
It's less misogynistic while also lampshading the misogyny that still exists, and there is no running subplot of murdering women in the basement.
Not perfect by any means, but the presentation is better than it was.
posted by Joviwan at 8:51 AM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Not perfect by any means, but the presentation is better than it was.
posted by Joviwan at 8:51 AM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Mind you there's _another_ 45 minutes of "here's what's wrong with the prequels" prefacing it before he even really starts talking about TFA. Generally thoughtful points about TFA, though. But yeah, I kindasorta wish they'd just let Plinkett retire and bring the deep analysis (vs reviews) into the more general RLM coverage.
posted by Kyol at 8:56 AM on October 3, 2016
posted by Kyol at 8:56 AM on October 3, 2016
Is it still misogynistic as the last videos?
I only watched the first half (50 minutes or so) last night and the answer is yes and no. So fare Nadine's story line or any other active serial killer interjections are not present, but there are a number of dark jokes (edgy) and references that definitely cross into misogynistic territory- in particular, a recurring joke regarding Jennifer Lawrence's tone during a press conference.
However... this entry in the Plinkett series is much more self aware and self critical. A big part of the first section bemoans the state of the internet media criticism in general, and acknowledges whatever role RLM might have had in starting some of the worst trends within that scene. And there is a joke in which Mr. Plinkett has a nightmare about being sent to hell for his continued misogynistic statements and antics. You definitely get the sense that Mike has serious concerns about what his work has wrought.
I've appreciated the RLM essays for what they are, while acknowledging that their format has problematic elements that make it difficult for many people to enjoy. If this were delivered as a dry, 10,000 word Medium article, the self-seriousness would kind of ruin what these essays are about. The juxtaposition of the cynical pedantic armchair critic with the persona of a serial killer is kind of what makes this level of analysis palatable. I mean, that's the joke right? Only a deranged psychopath could take this subject so seriously.
posted by the_querulous_night at 9:03 AM on October 3, 2016 [29 favorites]
I only watched the first half (50 minutes or so) last night and the answer is yes and no. So fare Nadine's story line or any other active serial killer interjections are not present, but there are a number of dark jokes (edgy) and references that definitely cross into misogynistic territory- in particular, a recurring joke regarding Jennifer Lawrence's tone during a press conference.
However... this entry in the Plinkett series is much more self aware and self critical. A big part of the first section bemoans the state of the internet media criticism in general, and acknowledges whatever role RLM might have had in starting some of the worst trends within that scene. And there is a joke in which Mr. Plinkett has a nightmare about being sent to hell for his continued misogynistic statements and antics. You definitely get the sense that Mike has serious concerns about what his work has wrought.
I've appreciated the RLM essays for what they are, while acknowledging that their format has problematic elements that make it difficult for many people to enjoy. If this were delivered as a dry, 10,000 word Medium article, the self-seriousness would kind of ruin what these essays are about. The juxtaposition of the cynical pedantic armchair critic with the persona of a serial killer is kind of what makes this level of analysis palatable. I mean, that's the joke right? Only a deranged psychopath could take this subject so seriously.
posted by the_querulous_night at 9:03 AM on October 3, 2016 [29 favorites]
The first part of this one mostly seems to be grumpy old man axe grinding (there's a pun there if you've watched it, but it's also descriptive). I think they should've stuck to critiquing the film and spent less time attacking other fans. I find Star Wars fandom tiresome too, but I don't need the RLM guys griping in my ear about it.
Is it still misogynistic as the last videos? I had to stop watching by the time I'd reached AOTC.
They tone down the Plinkett frame story. There's still a lot of regressive humor that I wish they could just give a rest, but that they seem to be sticking with out of stubbornness.
posted by codacorolla at 9:04 AM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Is it still misogynistic as the last videos? I had to stop watching by the time I'd reached AOTC.
They tone down the Plinkett frame story. There's still a lot of regressive humor that I wish they could just give a rest, but that they seem to be sticking with out of stubbornness.
posted by codacorolla at 9:04 AM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Less overt misogyny but plenty of really cringy jokes and Mike inexplicably just not getting it on some topics - see the whole weird "good job on diverse casting but kids don't care about diversity so idk maybe wasted effort?" tangent, because sure kids do, and that's a weird thing to pick at. I dunno, RLM's recently been a bit Average Redditor on some topics (see the many Ghostbusters 2016 cheap shots and mistaking subjectivity for objectivity in the analysis) and it's been turning me off more than the cringy old Plinkett murder gags ever did. Which is a shame, because there's a lot of gold in there, but it's becoming harder to see through the tedious anti-SJW-lite circlejerking.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:07 AM on October 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 9:07 AM on October 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
The first hour of this is absolutely terrible and barely coherent. Why would they spend so much time on some random fan theory and the prequels? Overall it lacks the fun of the previous videos and at times feels tired and cynical.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 9:16 AM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Foci for Analysis at 9:16 AM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yes, the diversity bit was weak and at times incoherent. It is as if they are for diversity but not really because little kids don't care...? wut
posted by Foci for Analysis at 9:19 AM on October 3, 2016
posted by Foci for Analysis at 9:19 AM on October 3, 2016
You know, I would actually enjoy a Plinkett or maybe Film Crit Hulk deep dive into the world of fan theories, there's a lot to be analyzed there from the perspective of someone who really gets story structure when most fan theories really, really don't take story structure into account... but yeah, that topic was a distraction in this video.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:20 AM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jason_steakums at 9:20 AM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Pass. Which is a shame as I hear he is pretty good outside of his dumb gimmick.
posted by Artw at 9:26 AM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 9:26 AM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
The weird tangent at the end about how nobody has a romance and that means the characters were wooden, inhuman, unbelievable robots with no connection to each other is really what threw me for a loop. I don't understand how someone can reach that "conclusion," even after someone on the internet spent 20 minutes trying to explain it to me.
Also, the sequences where Mike uses Hokey Internet Voice to read articles and comments gave me one of the most bizarre moments of—and I don't know how else to describe this—breaking my suspension of disbelief, and it made me wish he'd drop the plinkett character entirely.
posted by Joviwan at 9:26 AM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also, the sequences where Mike uses Hokey Internet Voice to read articles and comments gave me one of the most bizarre moments of—and I don't know how else to describe this—breaking my suspension of disbelief, and it made me wish he'd drop the plinkett character entirely.
posted by Joviwan at 9:26 AM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well, it's been quite some time since there was a full length Plinkett prior to this. I get the impression Mike is pretty much done with it as well (Jay doesn't get involved in the Plinkett stuff, usually).
This had some fun bits, but was too self-indulgent. Hopefully this is it.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:49 AM on October 3, 2016
This had some fun bits, but was too self-indulgent. Hopefully this is it.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:49 AM on October 3, 2016
Film Crit Hulk tweeted that he did not like this new RLM film at all.
posted by The River Ivel at 10:06 AM on October 3, 2016
posted by The River Ivel at 10:06 AM on October 3, 2016
I've seen earlier ones. Never watched any to the end. I guess I'm just not the target audience. I find it disgusting.
posted by Splunge at 10:07 AM on October 3, 2016
posted by Splunge at 10:07 AM on October 3, 2016
Some insightful points, a few quotable thoughts, but yeah, the gimmick has outlived whatever appeal it once had. The nineteenth joke about dead hookers in the crawlspace somehow doesn't ring out as clearly as the first one. Funny how that works.
(Imagine George Carlin did nothing but use seven dirty words for 90 consecutive minutes.)
posted by rokusan at 10:09 AM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
(Imagine George Carlin did nothing but use seven dirty words for 90 consecutive minutes.)
posted by rokusan at 10:09 AM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
The re-litigation of the prequels and the time spent on the chiasmus theory was just...odd and overly long. Once he got into the actual movie, he had some interesting points, but he lost me when he started in on how he would have made the movie better, because (a) his proposal keeps things tied tighter to the original cast rather than establishing a new cast and new potential stories, which is where the franchise needs to go (a point Plinkett just finishes making before going on about how there needed to be time spent showing how Luke & Leia & Han got to where they were) and (b) I'm sorry, I can get that anywhere on the internet; I wanted some more depth on the structure and what-have-you of the actual film.
I mean, it basically boiled down to:
-Disney is making this a franchise! Monetization bad!
-Here's a weird, overly long and complicated fan theory that I will mock!
-TFA was good, but could have been better!
-Here's what I would have done to make it better!
Which I don't need to take two hours out of my life for. I think his one, big, really solid point is that this was essentially a soft reboot and that Star Wars should avoid the path of the reboot of Star Trek; that is, now that you've done it, go find some new stories to tell and don't just keep lifting the same plots and structure from the original. Which is a good point, but I feel is one that has also been made a few times out there on the intertubes.
I guess what I'm saying is that there are hot takes and more considered takes that can come well after something has been released; I generally like the more considered takes, but if you are doing one, have something new or insightful to say. When this got to substance, the ground it covered was well trod.
posted by nubs at 10:15 AM on October 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
I mean, it basically boiled down to:
-Disney is making this a franchise! Monetization bad!
-Here's a weird, overly long and complicated fan theory that I will mock!
-TFA was good, but could have been better!
-Here's what I would have done to make it better!
Which I don't need to take two hours out of my life for. I think his one, big, really solid point is that this was essentially a soft reboot and that Star Wars should avoid the path of the reboot of Star Trek; that is, now that you've done it, go find some new stories to tell and don't just keep lifting the same plots and structure from the original. Which is a good point, but I feel is one that has also been made a few times out there on the intertubes.
I guess what I'm saying is that there are hot takes and more considered takes that can come well after something has been released; I generally like the more considered takes, but if you are doing one, have something new or insightful to say. When this got to substance, the ground it covered was well trod.
posted by nubs at 10:15 AM on October 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
And there is a joke in which Mr. Plinkett has a nightmare about being sent to hell for his continued misogynistic statements and antics. You definitely get the sense that Mike has serious concerns about what his work has wrought.
I read that in exactly the opposite way: like he was sarcastically making fun of the complaints about his misogyny.
posted by not that girl at 10:21 AM on October 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
I read that in exactly the opposite way: like he was sarcastically making fun of the complaints about his misogyny.
posted by not that girl at 10:21 AM on October 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
The re-litigation of
This has to be high in the running for "new Metafilter tic phrase 2016".
posted by Jon Mitchell at 10:24 AM on October 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
This has to be high in the running for "new Metafilter tic phrase 2016".
posted by Jon Mitchell at 10:24 AM on October 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
If you hate Star Wars, or have fallen out of love with "the franchise" as I have, this latest RLM video is great.
posted by My Dad at 10:29 AM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by My Dad at 10:29 AM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Interesting that Plinkett videos are now as dry and incoherent and repetitive as the prequels were. It's almost as if he doesn't know how to discuss a decent Star Wars movie after getting accustomed to the bad ones. His ST: First Contact review seemed much more nuanced in its criticism of a similarly okay film.
Incidentally, I keep trying to avoid RLM content because of all the ways in which they can be problematic, but there's very few folks on YouTube that do a good job of reviewing films in depth while also having good production quality and a sense of humor. Obviously RLM's expertise is very narrow in scope but there's some stuff that they really know and bring to the table. Mike's critique of action movie Picard using clips of principled idealistic TV Picard was pretty amazing.
Who out there is good? I'm a fan of Tony Zhou's Every Frame a Painting, though it's obviously a very different format. Stuckmann's okay but doesn't get deep enough into details for me, and doesn't seem to know much about older/foreign films. AVGN/Cinemassacre is as problematic as RLM.
posted by hyperbolic at 10:35 AM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Incidentally, I keep trying to avoid RLM content because of all the ways in which they can be problematic, but there's very few folks on YouTube that do a good job of reviewing films in depth while also having good production quality and a sense of humor. Obviously RLM's expertise is very narrow in scope but there's some stuff that they really know and bring to the table. Mike's critique of action movie Picard using clips of principled idealistic TV Picard was pretty amazing.
Who out there is good? I'm a fan of Tony Zhou's Every Frame a Painting, though it's obviously a very different format. Stuckmann's okay but doesn't get deep enough into details for me, and doesn't seem to know much about older/foreign films. AVGN/Cinemassacre is as problematic as RLM.
posted by hyperbolic at 10:35 AM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
I read that in exactly the opposite way: like he was sarcastically making fun of the complaints about his misogyny.
I mean maybe but the rest of that section was so self-deprecating that I have trouble seeing it from that perspective. Mr. Plinkett is a character within RLM's "universe" and I don't think he's supposed to be one you sympathize with. That was a major theme of the "Nadine's Revenge" short - that the elevation of Plinkett into this icon of anti-Lucas Star Wars fans everywhere was taking the reviews much more seriously than warranted. I don't think the "I'm going to hell for this" was sequence was intended or came across as an attack on RLM's critics, just sort of a wink towards the legitimate complaints about the reviews that have been brought up before.
posted by the_querulous_night at 10:37 AM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
I mean maybe but the rest of that section was so self-deprecating that I have trouble seeing it from that perspective. Mr. Plinkett is a character within RLM's "universe" and I don't think he's supposed to be one you sympathize with. That was a major theme of the "Nadine's Revenge" short - that the elevation of Plinkett into this icon of anti-Lucas Star Wars fans everywhere was taking the reviews much more seriously than warranted. I don't think the "I'm going to hell for this" was sequence was intended or came across as an attack on RLM's critics, just sort of a wink towards the legitimate complaints about the reviews that have been brought up before.
posted by the_querulous_night at 10:37 AM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
If you hate Star Wars, or have fallen out of love with "the franchise" as I have, this latest RLM video is great.
Asking in all seriousness: If someone hates Star Wars or isn't in love with the franchise, why take the time? I mean, it's a big ol' world and Internet out there full of stuff to explore, why spend time with a piece of pop culture that isn't connecting?
posted by nubs at 10:40 AM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Asking in all seriousness: If someone hates Star Wars or isn't in love with the franchise, why take the time? I mean, it's a big ol' world and Internet out there full of stuff to explore, why spend time with a piece of pop culture that isn't connecting?
posted by nubs at 10:40 AM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
If someone hates Star Wars or isn't in love with the franchise, why take the time?
Because Star Wars is an inescapable cultural event, and this crap is marketed at my kids. So I have to buy the shit, and take them to the shitty movies. And because they like this crap, I can't ever let on that I do not—I want them to enjoy or not enjoy things on their own terms.
And, once upon a time, I did enjoy Star Wars. It was the first movie I ever saw in the theater (Counting House Cinema on Broad Street, in Victoria, BC) at the age of 6 in 1977.
posted by My Dad at 10:44 AM on October 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Because Star Wars is an inescapable cultural event, and this crap is marketed at my kids. So I have to buy the shit, and take them to the shitty movies. And because they like this crap, I can't ever let on that I do not—I want them to enjoy or not enjoy things on their own terms.
And, once upon a time, I did enjoy Star Wars. It was the first movie I ever saw in the theater (Counting House Cinema on Broad Street, in Victoria, BC) at the age of 6 in 1977.
posted by My Dad at 10:44 AM on October 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
And I guess my question is, if you don't like RLM, why are you commenting in this thread?
posted by My Dad at 10:48 AM on October 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by My Dad at 10:48 AM on October 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Because he likes Star Wars?
And admittedly IANA parent, but if you don't enjoy Star Wars (a valid life choice, but not one many people make), maybe instead of grinding your teeth about it you can take advantage of your parental agency to steer your small fries in the direction of stuff that you do enjoy, and would feel good about exposing them to. You don't have to settle for Default Culture when it comes to shaping your kids' viewing habits.
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:55 AM on October 3, 2016
And admittedly IANA parent, but if you don't enjoy Star Wars (a valid life choice, but not one many people make), maybe instead of grinding your teeth about it you can take advantage of your parental agency to steer your small fries in the direction of stuff that you do enjoy, and would feel good about exposing them to. You don't have to settle for Default Culture when it comes to shaping your kids' viewing habits.
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:55 AM on October 3, 2016
Thanks for the answer, My Dad. I am always kind of curious as to why people who don't enjoy a particular franchise/entertainment product engage with the criticism and analysis of it.
And I guess my question is, if you don't like RLM, why are you commenting in this thread?
If this is aimed at me, I don't believe I ever said I don't like RLM. I watched because, once I got past the off-putting misogyny, I found the Plinkett discussions of the prequels interesting in terms of how they took apart structural elements of the film; I was hoping for more of that here, didn't get it.
posted by nubs at 10:55 AM on October 3, 2016
And I guess my question is, if you don't like RLM, why are you commenting in this thread?
If this is aimed at me, I don't believe I ever said I don't like RLM. I watched because, once I got past the off-putting misogyny, I found the Plinkett discussions of the prequels interesting in terms of how they took apart structural elements of the film; I was hoping for more of that here, didn't get it.
posted by nubs at 10:55 AM on October 3, 2016
I am always kind of curious as to why people who don't enjoy a particular franchise/entertainment product engage with the criticism and analysis of it.
Hate is strong. Hate is powerful. Hate is the path to the dark side.
posted by rokusan at 11:06 AM on October 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Hate is strong. Hate is powerful. Hate is the path to the dark side.
posted by rokusan at 11:06 AM on October 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
There is a lot to like about RLM. Best of the Worst and especially the new Re:View series are usually pretty great! But there's some problematic stuff in there, too, made especially frustrating because of the amount of good, funny, intelligent, schlock-loving criticism they're capable of.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:11 AM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jason_steakums at 11:11 AM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hate is strong. Hate is powerful. Hate is the path to the dark side.
Well, I've sometimes I've dug into criticism and analysis of something I've disliked in order to help me understand where that feeling has come from or if other people have seen the same thing that I have, but that usually comes from a place of "huh. I thought I would like this but I'm not and why is that?"...when I hate-watch something I'm usually pretty clear on what about it I hate and then I ask myself why I'm doing it.
Anyways, I think "hate" is an overly strong word for what is going on here, and I appreciate My Dad giving me his perspective.
I know return you to the regularly scheduled escalation of Star Wars quotes. This was not the comment you were looking for.
posted by nubs at 11:11 AM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well, I've sometimes I've dug into criticism and analysis of something I've disliked in order to help me understand where that feeling has come from or if other people have seen the same thing that I have, but that usually comes from a place of "huh. I thought I would like this but I'm not and why is that?"...when I hate-watch something I'm usually pretty clear on what about it I hate and then I ask myself why I'm doing it.
Anyways, I think "hate" is an overly strong word for what is going on here, and I appreciate My Dad giving me his perspective.
I know return you to the regularly scheduled escalation of Star Wars quotes. This was not the comment you were looking for.
posted by nubs at 11:11 AM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have always loved the hooker-in-the-crawlspace side story in the Plinkett reviews because, as said above: Only a deranged psychopath could take this subject so seriously.
When we, the audience, sit down to watch (or rewatch) a 90 minute review of a 136 minute terrible movie, we are not acting like rational people. Yes, our irrational behavior is probably due to an emotional connection to the source material which causes negative emotional reactions to the particular work in question. But the reviews work because they lampshade that irrationality, because the person who put together such a work is shown to be not merely mentally unstable, but also actually evil. It's Will Shatner yelling at fans to Get a Life! but more self-deprecating.
I am looking forward to watching the new video tonight, and I appreciate the comments that criticize the substantive content and/or the overall thrust of the argument and/or the execution of the framing story itself *.
But, there's plenty of other in-depth reviews of popular media that take themselves entirely (or at least more) seriously** and don't try to imply that they are going "too deep." Red Letter Media itself has a whole series of them. It seems like it would be more worthwhile for folks who don't like the "misogyny" to go check those out, than derailing yet another thread about it here.
*(whoo boy, the "acting" in those Half in the Bag sketches)
**Cracked seems to have a pretty good job at this, partly because I think that they only bother to produce things like the "Cracked Responds" vids for stuff that they really have a passion for (and they don't pretend to be any kind of experts -- it's just their reactions, that tend to often line up with mine. Ditto Obsessive Pop Culture Disorder, but that does also play up the "we are not normal" aspects of geeking out.
posted by sparklemotion at 11:51 AM on October 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
When we, the audience, sit down to watch (or rewatch) a 90 minute review of a 136 minute terrible movie, we are not acting like rational people. Yes, our irrational behavior is probably due to an emotional connection to the source material which causes negative emotional reactions to the particular work in question. But the reviews work because they lampshade that irrationality, because the person who put together such a work is shown to be not merely mentally unstable, but also actually evil. It's Will Shatner yelling at fans to Get a Life! but more self-deprecating.
I am looking forward to watching the new video tonight, and I appreciate the comments that criticize the substantive content and/or the overall thrust of the argument and/or the execution of the framing story itself *.
But, there's plenty of other in-depth reviews of popular media that take themselves entirely (or at least more) seriously** and don't try to imply that they are going "too deep." Red Letter Media itself has a whole series of them. It seems like it would be more worthwhile for folks who don't like the "misogyny" to go check those out, than derailing yet another thread about it here.
*(whoo boy, the "acting" in those Half in the Bag sketches)
**Cracked seems to have a pretty good job at this, partly because I think that they only bother to produce things like the "Cracked Responds" vids for stuff that they really have a passion for (and they don't pretend to be any kind of experts -- it's just their reactions, that tend to often line up with mine. Ditto Obsessive Pop Culture Disorder, but that does also play up the "we are not normal" aspects of geeking out.
posted by sparklemotion at 11:51 AM on October 3, 2016 [8 favorites]
So has anyone done a version of this where they edit out the misogynistic and boring parts, bringing this thing down to a watchable five minutes or so?
posted by happyroach at 12:38 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by happyroach at 12:38 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
It seems like it would be more worthwhile for folks who don't like the "misogyny" to go check those out, than derailing yet another thread about it here.
I brought it up first because the misogyny exists in the originals, regardless of whether you slap quotation marks around it or not. I don't want to waste my time or give Red Letter Media the view/click if that horrible line of attempted humor via violence against women, was carried through to the newest iteration. There are probably a hundred different ways Plinkett could have established the idea of psychopath without resorting to that one particular line of jokes, if indeed, that's the sole reason he has done so. Not cool in the least. If Plinkett wants people to focus more on what he has to say about the film(s), then he should have elected a better vehicle by which to convey his thoughts. Lastly, it's not a derail if the creator purposefully wove the topic into his past work, and as a result, questioning whether his newest still contains it is pretty valid.
posted by Atreides at 1:01 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I brought it up first because the misogyny exists in the originals, regardless of whether you slap quotation marks around it or not. I don't want to waste my time or give Red Letter Media the view/click if that horrible line of attempted humor via violence against women, was carried through to the newest iteration. There are probably a hundred different ways Plinkett could have established the idea of psychopath without resorting to that one particular line of jokes, if indeed, that's the sole reason he has done so. Not cool in the least. If Plinkett wants people to focus more on what he has to say about the film(s), then he should have elected a better vehicle by which to convey his thoughts. Lastly, it's not a derail if the creator purposefully wove the topic into his past work, and as a result, questioning whether his newest still contains it is pretty valid.
posted by Atreides at 1:01 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Film Critic Hulk's Force Awakens review/JJ Abrams takedown was quite insightful, I thought.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 1:13 PM on October 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by 1970s Antihero at 1:13 PM on October 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
If Plinkett wants people to focus more on what he has to say about the film(s), then he should have elected a better vehicle by which to convey his thoughts.
It's been mentioned a few times this thread but I just want to make sure that we're all aware that Harry S. Plinkett is a fictional character. I don't want to get into a fight about what is or is not misogynistic art, but I know that my opinion on that in this case is definitely informed by that fact.
posted by sparklemotion at 1:15 PM on October 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
It's been mentioned a few times this thread but I just want to make sure that we're all aware that Harry S. Plinkett is a fictional character. I don't want to get into a fight about what is or is not misogynistic art, but I know that my opinion on that in this case is definitely informed by that fact.
posted by sparklemotion at 1:15 PM on October 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
Mike Stoklasa, however, is not a fictional character and while I do not think he has poor intentions or hate in his heart, and he genuinely seems to see inclusivity and diversity as a good thing, he seems to aim an awful lot of humor in RLM videos at people who speak up about sexism and racism. Basically it seems like he likes to crack jokes about things that he just doesn't get, things outside of his experience, and it is a point of frustration for myself and a lot of other people who otherwise like RLM.
Personally I'd take a hundred schlocky Plinkett murder gags over one more minute of Mike telling people they're objectively wrong for liking Ghostbusters 2016, or taking shots at trigger warnings, or piling on Jennifer Lawrence, or any of a dozen other tired things that have stuck out in their videos lately...
posted by jason_steakums at 1:54 PM on October 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
Personally I'd take a hundred schlocky Plinkett murder gags over one more minute of Mike telling people they're objectively wrong for liking Ghostbusters 2016, or taking shots at trigger warnings, or piling on Jennifer Lawrence, or any of a dozen other tired things that have stuck out in their videos lately...
posted by jason_steakums at 1:54 PM on October 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
I just want to make sure that we're all aware that Harry S. Plinkett is a fictional character
Yeah, but I refer to the stuff involving the character as Plinkett reviews to make sure I know that there's going to be a strange psycho-killer filter on top of things as well as a certain approach to the discussion, and to differentiate Plinkett from Mike, because while I'm not sure where character/persona and real person separate, I know there's a distinction that needs to be acknowledged.
posted by nubs at 1:58 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but I refer to the stuff involving the character as Plinkett reviews to make sure I know that there's going to be a strange psycho-killer filter on top of things as well as a certain approach to the discussion, and to differentiate Plinkett from Mike, because while I'm not sure where character/persona and real person separate, I know there's a distinction that needs to be acknowledged.
posted by nubs at 1:58 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
After a while the ironic part of ironic racism, homophobia, misogyny, whatever really stops mattering.
posted by Artw at 2:06 PM on October 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:06 PM on October 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
For what it's worth, I think they spent so long on the "Star Wars Ring Theory" because it tends to be viewed as something of a response to the Plinkett reviews of the prequels, at least in the fan zeitgeist. I always thought it was obvious that the prequels were likely intended to mirror the original trilogy in reverse to some extent (Vader/The Republic's fall vs. Luke/The Rebellion's rise), that just never raised my opinion of the execution.
I did like the point that the prequels actually tried new things (when they weren't too busy shoving in unwanted "fanservice" like Vader building C-3PO). The cloning facility with the Fett clones especially, seemed like a very un-Star-Wars-like antiseptic, futuristic style of science fiction that might have actually pointed the way to a better movie had it not been saddled with needing to fit in with the fantasy space knights and Flash Gordon aesthetics of the old movies. The idea that the Star Wars universe basically underwent a genre change due to the fall of the Republic is something I'm all for, but it was never fully comitted to or developed in the prequels.
It depends on where the story goes in the future, but I did take note when I first saw it of the lack of any real romance between the leads in The Force Awakens beyond maybe Finn having a mild crush*, and I wondered whether that was indeed influenced by the studio being nervous about an interracial pairing, both domestically and in some overseas markets. This is also a newer more serialized style of Star Wars though, so they may just want to give any planned relationships more time to develop over multiple movies.
The bit about diversity did seem like a pointless derail, it was basically "yay, but unnecessary", which seems... unnecessary?
* I leave the exact interpretation of that as an exercise to the reader, I've been on tumblr.
posted by Wandering Idiot at 2:11 PM on October 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
I did like the point that the prequels actually tried new things (when they weren't too busy shoving in unwanted "fanservice" like Vader building C-3PO). The cloning facility with the Fett clones especially, seemed like a very un-Star-Wars-like antiseptic, futuristic style of science fiction that might have actually pointed the way to a better movie had it not been saddled with needing to fit in with the fantasy space knights and Flash Gordon aesthetics of the old movies. The idea that the Star Wars universe basically underwent a genre change due to the fall of the Republic is something I'm all for, but it was never fully comitted to or developed in the prequels.
It depends on where the story goes in the future, but I did take note when I first saw it of the lack of any real romance between the leads in The Force Awakens beyond maybe Finn having a mild crush*, and I wondered whether that was indeed influenced by the studio being nervous about an interracial pairing, both domestically and in some overseas markets. This is also a newer more serialized style of Star Wars though, so they may just want to give any planned relationships more time to develop over multiple movies.
The bit about diversity did seem like a pointless derail, it was basically "yay, but unnecessary", which seems... unnecessary?
* I leave the exact interpretation of that as an exercise to the reader, I've been on tumblr.
posted by Wandering Idiot at 2:11 PM on October 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
This was definitely not up to usual Plinkett standards, I'm guessing because Mike maybe doesn't really give half a fuck about this movie one way or the other, and because there's not a whole lot to do besides rehash everything he's already said about the prequels and J.J. Abrams' Star Trek reboot. But he did videos on those, so people expect him (and have been begging him) to do this, so he did it. And here we are. He's kind of his own George Lucas at this point, knowing fans will watch whatever so whatever. Descending slidewhistle.
I mean, jesus, it takes almost a full hour for Poochie to get to the fireworks factory, and then it's mostly wishy-washy, self-contradictory incoherence. Compared to the laser-focused critique of that other stuff -- and even of Baby's Day Out -- it's just not much of anything, really.
posted by Sys Rq at 2:13 PM on October 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
I mean, jesus, it takes almost a full hour for Poochie to get to the fireworks factory, and then it's mostly wishy-washy, self-contradictory incoherence. Compared to the laser-focused critique of that other stuff -- and even of Baby's Day Out -- it's just not much of anything, really.
posted by Sys Rq at 2:13 PM on October 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
Having watched the whole thing now, while there was the annoying "humor" that is definitely off-putting, RLM's observations about Star Wars and the idiocy of George Lucas' and the fans' pretensions is bang on.
Another thing RLM addresses, which never really got any kind of analysis, is just what the hell Rey and Finn's relationship is supposed to be. Platonic? If so, why? Too afraid to have an "interracial" kiss in 2015?
While this is not a defense of RLM's rather questionable sense of humour, the gross-out gags in the reviews are at about the level of Rick & Morty, and, at the end of the day, RLM seems to possess a lot more self-awareness and empathy than that other comedic superstar of our age, Seth MacFarlane.
posted by My Dad at 2:13 PM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Another thing RLM addresses, which never really got any kind of analysis, is just what the hell Rey and Finn's relationship is supposed to be. Platonic? If so, why? Too afraid to have an "interracial" kiss in 2015?
While this is not a defense of RLM's rather questionable sense of humour, the gross-out gags in the reviews are at about the level of Rick & Morty, and, at the end of the day, RLM seems to possess a lot more self-awareness and empathy than that other comedic superstar of our age, Seth MacFarlane.
posted by My Dad at 2:13 PM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
I would also like to link this delightfully meta comment on the Two Best Friends subreddit about the review.
posted by Wandering Idiot at 2:20 PM on October 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Wandering Idiot at 2:20 PM on October 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
Basically it seems like he likes to crack jokes about things that he just doesn't get, things outside of his experience, and it is a point of frustration for myself and a lot of other people who otherwise like RLM.
I strongly dislike Film Crit Hulk's all caps gimmick and think it's so poorly executed as to be entirely pointless and annoying, but it's his choice and he's an insightful critic so I deal. I think it's comparable.
posted by Sebmojo at 2:23 PM on October 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
I strongly dislike Film Crit Hulk's all caps gimmick and think it's so poorly executed as to be entirely pointless and annoying, but it's his choice and he's an insightful critic so I deal. I think it's comparable.
posted by Sebmojo at 2:23 PM on October 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'm still watching RLM, despite the problems I have with it. What's good about it is VERY good. It's getting harder, though. I feel like eventually RLM is going to cross the line into "not horrible people, but #1 with horrible people" territory.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:30 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jason_steakums at 2:30 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I always thought it was obvious that the prequels were likely intended to mirror the original trilogy in reverse to some extent
You know, I think I saw a quote about that somewhere. Something about...poetry, maybe? Like, it rhymes? :)
I think the problem underlying the Star Wars franchise in so many ways is that need to "rhyme" with the OT; this RLM video talks about it with TFA and the prequels; many others have also pointed it out. Right now, there's no seeming ability or will to do a Star Wars story that breaks away from the touchstone moments and characters - the Skywalkers; the Empire/Republic; the Jedi/Sith; the giant weapon of mass distraction. So, even in places where the prequels try to introduce something new, it gets rushed past and never mentioned again in favour of setting up this notion that there is not only a fundamental thematic underlying repetition, but in events and outcomes.
TFA, I think, did what it had to do in terms of achieving the fundamental message to the audience of "this is Star Wars"; here is the familiar, the touchstones, the moments you want - you can trust us, we (the new corporate overlords) get it. I hope (because, frankly, I'm tired of being cynical about everything) that it provides the springboard into doing different; that VIII won't be ESB reheated. That Rogue One will give us another springboard to explore the galaxy without the old touchstones. I do think there should be a legitimate fear that Disney's corporate control will stifle creative license and taking things in a new direction and that everything will be geared towards the "best audience experience" and not "telling the best story".
And that comes from a place of having grown older and looking back at it, Star Wars was a touchstone not just because it was a great story, but because of what it sparked in my imagination and the imagination of lots of other people. There are so many places it can take us, so many stories it can tell, I hope they take advantage of it. If not, I hope some studio somewhere has the courage to try something new.
posted by nubs at 2:36 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
You know, I think I saw a quote about that somewhere. Something about...poetry, maybe? Like, it rhymes? :)
I think the problem underlying the Star Wars franchise in so many ways is that need to "rhyme" with the OT; this RLM video talks about it with TFA and the prequels; many others have also pointed it out. Right now, there's no seeming ability or will to do a Star Wars story that breaks away from the touchstone moments and characters - the Skywalkers; the Empire/Republic; the Jedi/Sith; the giant weapon of mass distraction. So, even in places where the prequels try to introduce something new, it gets rushed past and never mentioned again in favour of setting up this notion that there is not only a fundamental thematic underlying repetition, but in events and outcomes.
TFA, I think, did what it had to do in terms of achieving the fundamental message to the audience of "this is Star Wars"; here is the familiar, the touchstones, the moments you want - you can trust us, we (the new corporate overlords) get it. I hope (because, frankly, I'm tired of being cynical about everything) that it provides the springboard into doing different; that VIII won't be ESB reheated. That Rogue One will give us another springboard to explore the galaxy without the old touchstones. I do think there should be a legitimate fear that Disney's corporate control will stifle creative license and taking things in a new direction and that everything will be geared towards the "best audience experience" and not "telling the best story".
And that comes from a place of having grown older and looking back at it, Star Wars was a touchstone not just because it was a great story, but because of what it sparked in my imagination and the imagination of lots of other people. There are so many places it can take us, so many stories it can tell, I hope they take advantage of it. If not, I hope some studio somewhere has the courage to try something new.
posted by nubs at 2:36 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Another thing RLM addresses, which never really got any kind of analysis, is just what the hell Rey and Finn's relationship is supposed to be. Platonic? If so, why? Too afraid to have an "interracial" kiss in 2015?
I still haven't watched the review so I'm really just riffing off of this one comment, but as much as I would love to shoot the Rey and Finn ship with a torpedo, are they any less "involved" than pre-ensiblinged Luke and Leia, or Han and Leia were after Episode 4? Remember that The Kiss happened in Empire. How much gettin' on do you want in the first act of a trilogy that covers what seems like less than a week of the characters knowing each other?
But, I have a chip on my shoulder about awesome female protags getting all dickmatized (and baby-factoried), so I'll admit that I'd rather Rey not hook up with anyone than be involved in a not-really-ground-breaking interracial kiss. This is, of course, compatible with the Finn-Poe ship which would be something worth accusing the filmmakers of being too afraid to do.
posted by sparklemotion at 2:38 PM on October 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
I still haven't watched the review so I'm really just riffing off of this one comment, but as much as I would love to shoot the Rey and Finn ship with a torpedo, are they any less "involved" than pre-ensiblinged Luke and Leia, or Han and Leia were after Episode 4? Remember that The Kiss happened in Empire. How much gettin' on do you want in the first act of a trilogy that covers what seems like less than a week of the characters knowing each other?
But, I have a chip on my shoulder about awesome female protags getting all dickmatized (and baby-factoried), so I'll admit that I'd rather Rey not hook up with anyone than be involved in a not-really-ground-breaking interracial kiss. This is, of course, compatible with the Finn-Poe ship which would be something worth accusing the filmmakers of being too afraid to do.
posted by sparklemotion at 2:38 PM on October 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
For someone who bemoans lack of creativity and padding a thin plot, I have to ask if Plinkett watches his own videos.
Its a review of SW:FA, and that doesn't even start until we are past the half way point of this video and he doesn't even drill down once we finally get there. I hadn't watched RLM in a few years and was curious and checked out the Ghostbusters review, I lasted about 5 minutes and had to turn it off. The whole review was apologist letter for all the sexist bullshit leading up to the movie release.
What a waste.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 2:46 PM on October 3, 2016
Its a review of SW:FA, and that doesn't even start until we are past the half way point of this video and he doesn't even drill down once we finally get there. I hadn't watched RLM in a few years and was curious and checked out the Ghostbusters review, I lasted about 5 minutes and had to turn it off. The whole review was apologist letter for all the sexist bullshit leading up to the movie release.
What a waste.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 2:46 PM on October 3, 2016
I also found the point about Darth of Tarth not taking off her helmet pretty dumb. Like Vader took off his helmet all the time? Or any Stormtroopers? If I didn't know any better, I'd think his favourite Star Wars movie was the one about Boba Fett.
posted by Sys Rq at 2:49 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Sys Rq at 2:49 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I still haven't watched the review so I'm really just riffing off of this one comment, but as much as I would love to shoot the Rey and Finn ship with a torpedo, are they any less "involved" than pre-ensiblinged Luke and Leia, or Han and Leia were after Episode 4?
I find the complaints/comments on the Rey/Finn relationship "not being clear" about as meaningful as the complaints about Rey's ability to pilot the Falcon. In ANH, Luke repeatedly asserts that he's a great pilot, but it isn't until the final act that we actually see him fly. Nobody bitches that Luke can just jump into a X-Wing and destroy the Death Star; why does everybody seem to have a problem with Rey doing the exact same thing (i.e., asserting she can fly a ship and then doing so)? I mean, I have a theory, and it begins with "M".
posted by nubs at 2:53 PM on October 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
I find the complaints/comments on the Rey/Finn relationship "not being clear" about as meaningful as the complaints about Rey's ability to pilot the Falcon. In ANH, Luke repeatedly asserts that he's a great pilot, but it isn't until the final act that we actually see him fly. Nobody bitches that Luke can just jump into a X-Wing and destroy the Death Star; why does everybody seem to have a problem with Rey doing the exact same thing (i.e., asserting she can fly a ship and then doing so)? I mean, I have a theory, and it begins with "M".
posted by nubs at 2:53 PM on October 3, 2016 [6 favorites]
Anyways, after doing some watching and reading and thinking this afternoon, I believe I can summarize a lot of what I'm thinking down to this:
Current mass-market entertainment is based on the idea that the audience knows what it wants and deserves to get it, good and hard.
posted by nubs at 3:18 PM on October 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
Current mass-market entertainment is based on the idea that the audience knows what it wants and deserves to get it, good and hard.
posted by nubs at 3:18 PM on October 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
Nobody bitches that Luke can just jump into a X-Wing and destroy the Death Star; why does everybody seem to have a problem with Rey doing the exact same thing (i.e., asserting she can fly a ship and then doing so)?
ESPECIALLY given that the trailer established Rey as knowing starships (literally) inside out. All we saw Luke doing is breaking droids (I guess one did get a bath, and technically it was the sand people that broke it).
I mean, I have a theory, and it begins with "M".
I also have theories, they begin with "S" and "P". I think they are all the same theories, which is why every time Rey does something that a typical female protagonist wouldn't do, a youngling gets his robes*.
*and, not to belabor this point at all, if Rey ends up falling for the actual man-child that is FN-2187**, the younglings will get... well...
**don't get me wrong, finn is an awesome character, but he's immature because he's never had to live an independent life before. He'll get better though, but his reward for growing up shouldn't be getting the awesome lady.
posted by sparklemotion at 3:27 PM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
ESPECIALLY given that the trailer established Rey as knowing starships (literally) inside out. All we saw Luke doing is breaking droids (I guess one did get a bath, and technically it was the sand people that broke it).
I mean, I have a theory, and it begins with "M".
I also have theories, they begin with "S" and "P". I think they are all the same theories, which is why every time Rey does something that a typical female protagonist wouldn't do, a youngling gets his robes*.
*and, not to belabor this point at all, if Rey ends up falling for the actual man-child that is FN-2187**, the younglings will get... well...
**don't get me wrong, finn is an awesome character, but he's immature because he's never had to live an independent life before. He'll get better though, but his reward for growing up shouldn't be getting the awesome lady.
posted by sparklemotion at 3:27 PM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
The best Star Wars material RLM has had recently is that video where they deep dive into a Wookieepedia article on Vader's armor.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:55 PM on October 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 3:55 PM on October 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
> I think the problem underlying the Star Wars franchise in so many ways is that need to "rhyme" with the OT; this RLM video talks about it with TFA and the prequels; many others have also pointed it out. Right now, there's no seeming ability or will to do a Star Wars story that breaks away from the touchstone moments and characters - the Skywalkers; the Empire/Republic; the Jedi/Sith; the giant weapon of mass distraction. So, even in places where the prequels try to introduce something new, it gets rushed past and never mentioned again in favour of setting up this notion that there is not only a fundamental thematic underlying repetition, but in events and outcomes.
When the original movie so explicitly invokes the monomyth theory, it only makes sense that the filmmakers use repetitive imagery. It reminds me a little of the repeated phrases and epithets found in oral tradition poetry, which makes me wonder if any classicists have considered writing a retelling of the plot of Star Wars in Homeric style. I would read the hell out of that.
posted by enjoymoreradio at 4:24 PM on October 3, 2016
When the original movie so explicitly invokes the monomyth theory, it only makes sense that the filmmakers use repetitive imagery. It reminds me a little of the repeated phrases and epithets found in oral tradition poetry, which makes me wonder if any classicists have considered writing a retelling of the plot of Star Wars in Homeric style. I would read the hell out of that.
posted by enjoymoreradio at 4:24 PM on October 3, 2016
I also found the point about Darth of Tarth not taking off her helmet pretty dumb.
The one intriguing thing for me in the Force Awakens is how the Captain Phasma character , with her cape and armor, resembles Kushana from Miyazaki's Nausicaa film. I'm certain it's intended to be an homage to that character.
posted by My Dad at 5:09 PM on October 3, 2016
The one intriguing thing for me in the Force Awakens is how the Captain Phasma character , with her cape and armor, resembles Kushana from Miyazaki's Nausicaa film. I'm certain it's intended to be an homage to that character.
posted by My Dad at 5:09 PM on October 3, 2016
(A lot of Miyazaki's movies feature a strong female protagonist, typically aided by a male ally, if not suitor).
posted by My Dad at 5:10 PM on October 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by My Dad at 5:10 PM on October 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
In case you missed it, here is the website of Larry Gruber, Discount Lawyer mentioned at the beginning of the review.
posted by Monkey0nCrack at 5:46 PM on October 3, 2016
posted by Monkey0nCrack at 5:46 PM on October 3, 2016
Film Critic Hulk's Force Awakens review/JJ Abrams takedown was quite insightful, I thought.
Sounded intriguing until...wtf is there a non-all-caps version of that? I cannot punish myself to that extent.
posted by xigxag at 6:21 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sounded intriguing until...wtf is there a non-all-caps version of that? I cannot punish myself to that extent.
posted by xigxag at 6:21 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
And admittedly IANA parent, but if you don't enjoy Star Wars (a valid life choice, but not one many people make), maybe instead of grinding your teeth about it you can take advantage of your parental agency to steer your small fries in the direction of stuff that you do enjoy,
It doesn't really work like this. Kids like the stuff kids like, be it Pokemon, Star Wars, Lego, Transformers, whatever. I'm not going to be that parent that tries to get kids to like things that I like, or get them interested in the "right interests." All I can do as a parent is support them as they pursue their own interests, or, in the case of Star Wars, not stand in the way of them. If you are a parent, I'd like to know what you regard as "appropriate" interests, and how you steer your kids into it. I'm not asking for help (I'll put up with my oldest son's extreme interest in NHL hockey), I'm just curious.
posted by My Dad at 6:40 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
It doesn't really work like this. Kids like the stuff kids like, be it Pokemon, Star Wars, Lego, Transformers, whatever. I'm not going to be that parent that tries to get kids to like things that I like, or get them interested in the "right interests." All I can do as a parent is support them as they pursue their own interests, or, in the case of Star Wars, not stand in the way of them. If you are a parent, I'd like to know what you regard as "appropriate" interests, and how you steer your kids into it. I'm not asking for help (I'll put up with my oldest son's extreme interest in NHL hockey), I'm just curious.
posted by My Dad at 6:40 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sounded intriguing until...wtf is there a non-all-caps version of that? I cannot punish myself to that extent.
The De-Hulkifier. Or you can c/p into notepad then into word and do a 'change case'.
It's a fantastic and thoughtful article, written by a gigantic star wars nerd, and it actually nails the issues with the film a lot better than the RLM one. I think he contextualises the complaints about Rey's Mary-Sueness in a very sensible way by pointing out that Abrams doesn't dramatically justify any of his character beats, and that's just an example.
posted by Sebmojo at 6:41 PM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
The De-Hulkifier. Or you can c/p into notepad then into word and do a 'change case'.
It's a fantastic and thoughtful article, written by a gigantic star wars nerd, and it actually nails the issues with the film a lot better than the RLM one. I think he contextualises the complaints about Rey's Mary-Sueness in a very sensible way by pointing out that Abrams doesn't dramatically justify any of his character beats, and that's just an example.
posted by Sebmojo at 6:41 PM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
My Dad: "The one intriguing thing for me in the Force Awakens is how the Captain Phasma character"
One of the disappointing things about Force Awakens was that Phasma barely gets to *be* a character at all. I would have liked to have seen a lot more of her.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:45 PM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
One of the disappointing things about Force Awakens was that Phasma barely gets to *be* a character at all. I would have liked to have seen a lot more of her.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:45 PM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
That line at the end "There's been an awakening, have you heard it?" really should have been "There's been an awakening, have you smelt it?"
(Yes, I know, the proper word is "smelled.")
posted by entropicamericana at 6:49 PM on October 3, 2016
(Yes, I know, the proper word is "smelled.")
posted by entropicamericana at 6:49 PM on October 3, 2016
Another thing RLM addresses, which never really got any kind of analysis, is just what the hell Rey and Finn's relationship is supposed to be. Platonic? If so, why?
Why does there have to be romance, and why does it have to involve Rey? What, is she supposed to take time out from her busy schedule of trying to stay alive to make out with some guy she just met? Just what the hell do you people think women characters are about anyway?
posted by happyroach at 7:06 PM on October 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
Why does there have to be romance, and why does it have to involve Rey? What, is she supposed to take time out from her busy schedule of trying to stay alive to make out with some guy she just met? Just what the hell do you people think women characters are about anyway?
posted by happyroach at 7:06 PM on October 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
[...] Kids like the stuff kids like, be it Pokemon, Star Wars, Lego, Transformers, whatever. I'm not going to be that parent that tries to get kids to like things that I like, or get them interested in the "right interests." [...]
posted by My Dad
Waaait a minute, that doesn't sound like my dad at all!
posted by jason_steakums at 7:16 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by My Dad
Waaait a minute, that doesn't sound like my dad at all!
posted by jason_steakums at 7:16 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I like Wheel of the Worst, and Pre-Rec is okay, but something about their Ghostbusters stuff bugged me. I'll watch this because RLM is interesting, but I feel like there's much less to unpack about Force Awakens. It's... fine. It does the expected things, and doesn't do them too badly, and everyone was likable and well-cast and fun. But it's not even the best movie about John Boyega hitting aliens with a sword or the best movie about Oscar Issac, Domhnall Gleeson and sentient robots that came out that year, or the best female lead reboot of a classic sci-fi action franchise that came out that year.
How much of it is just Rich Evans crowing about how he predicted that JJ Abrams would make a good Star Wars movie?
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 7:33 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
How much of it is just Rich Evans crowing about how he predicted that JJ Abrams would make a good Star Wars movie?
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 7:33 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I didn't watch this video, nor do I want to, but I've heard that he credits the prequels for trying to be something new instead of a rehash of ANH, unlike TFA, and I give him credit for that assertion if he made it.
posted by Apocryphon at 9:17 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Apocryphon at 9:17 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I watched it last night. I actually really liked it up until he started talking about TFA itself.
It was kind of fun to see him subvert his own method of using Lucas's own words to damn him by using Lucas's words to slam Disney and TFA, even though I disagree that TFA being safe was a bad thing.
But the diversity rant was even stupider than I had expected, and included a lazy and unnecessary trans slur (if it had been less lazy, I might have been willing to just call it a quirk of the Plinkett character).
I think that the creators need to work on finding their voice for criticizing movies that are undeniably fun, but flawed. Or they need to keep plinkett as an old man who yells at the clouds of the media catering to a youth that he no longer possesses.
posted by sparklemotion at 7:38 AM on October 4, 2016
It was kind of fun to see him subvert his own method of using Lucas's own words to damn him by using Lucas's words to slam Disney and TFA, even though I disagree that TFA being safe was a bad thing.
But the diversity rant was even stupider than I had expected, and included a lazy and unnecessary trans slur (if it had been less lazy, I might have been willing to just call it a quirk of the Plinkett character).
I think that the creators need to work on finding their voice for criticizing movies that are undeniably fun, but flawed. Or they need to keep plinkett as an old man who yells at the clouds of the media catering to a youth that he no longer possesses.
posted by sparklemotion at 7:38 AM on October 4, 2016
It's a fantastic and thoughtful article, written by a gigantic star wars nerd, and it actually nails the issues with the film a lot better than the RLM one.
Yeah, the Film Crit Hulk one was very thought-provoking. I mean, I enjoyed the hell out of TFA (and still stop to watch if the kids have it on) but there's some spot on stuff there about the film that goes beyond just TFA to some fundamental problems in how franchise movies are being created right now; that it is all about evoking certain emotions in the audience and not telling a story that justifies that reaction.
posted by nubs at 8:02 AM on October 4, 2016
Yeah, the Film Crit Hulk one was very thought-provoking. I mean, I enjoyed the hell out of TFA (and still stop to watch if the kids have it on) but there's some spot on stuff there about the film that goes beyond just TFA to some fundamental problems in how franchise movies are being created right now; that it is all about evoking certain emotions in the audience and not telling a story that justifies that reaction.
posted by nubs at 8:02 AM on October 4, 2016
How much of it is just Rich Evans crowing about how he predicted that JJ Abrams would make a good Star Wars movie?
It's not. He even takes a few swipes at JJ. But it feels...self-indulgent. I think there's some very valid criticisms and things to say about TFA in terms of a piece of pop culture and it being a part of this monstrous franchise; Rich didn't seem to have much to say that was all that insightful, IMO. YMMV.
posted by nubs at 8:06 AM on October 4, 2016
It's not. He even takes a few swipes at JJ. But it feels...self-indulgent. I think there's some very valid criticisms and things to say about TFA in terms of a piece of pop culture and it being a part of this monstrous franchise; Rich didn't seem to have much to say that was all that insightful, IMO. YMMV.
posted by nubs at 8:06 AM on October 4, 2016
Just to be clear - Plinkett in these reviews is written by and played by Mike, not Rich.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:02 PM on October 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Chrysostom at 12:02 PM on October 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
One of the disappointing things about Force Awakens was that Phasma barely gets to *be* a character at all. I would have liked to have seen a lot more of her.
She's the Bobba Fett. Or Darth Maul, for you snake people.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:15 PM on October 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
She's the Bobba Fett. Or Darth Maul, for you snake people.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:15 PM on October 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
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