[ELECTION 2016] ♪♫ He’s never gon' be President now... ♪♫
October 8, 2016 4:21 AM   Subscribe

One month before Election Day, with the Trump campaign reeling from enough October Surprises to fill an advent calendar, the Washington Post's intrepid David Fahrenthold has landed what may be the mortal blow: vulgar 2005 footage of the Republican nominee bragging about his sexual abuse of married women, just months after marrying his third wife, Melania. "When you’re a star, they let you do it," the future presidential candidate declares. "Grab 'em by the p***y. You can do anything." The bombshell has forced GOP leaders to recoil from Trump and issue a parade of rebukes, with Utah Rep. Jason Chaffetz revoking support, House Speaker Paul Ryan cancelling a joint rally, and top donors pulling funds and demanding a new candidate. Hours after a terse press release from the then-59-year-old calling it "locker room banter," Trump released a rare apology in a midnight video maligning the Clintons while vowing to attend the presidential town hall debate Sunday. Betting markets aren't so sure. Unfortunately for the GOP, there’s no longer any way to boot Donald Trump from the ballot.

[Note: This story originally broke yesterday afternoon; see starting here for several hundred comments on the news at the end of the old VP debate thread. Mobile users beware: the whole thread is ~4,000 comments long!]

A partial transcript of Trump's comments:
I moved on her, and I failed. I’ll admit it. I did try and fuck her. She was married. And I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, ‘I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture.’

I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn’t get there. And she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she’s now got the big phony tits and everything. She’s totally changed her look. [...]

I’ve got to use some Tic Tacs, just in case I start kissing her. You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.
(full transcript here)

Fun fact: Billy Bush, the Access Hollywood host Trump is heard bragging to, is the cousin of former President George W. Bush (and has a polarizing history of his own). Really makes u think...

Unfun fact: Ashley Judd claims Donald Trump commented similarly about "his family member's spouse"

Selected reactions:
Hillary Clinton: "This is horrific. We cannot allow this man to become president."

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY): "These comments are repugnant and unacceptable in any circumstance. As the father of three daughters, I strongly believe that Trump needs to apologize directly to women and girls everywhere, and take full responsibility for the utter lack of respect for women shown in his comments on that tape."

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV): "This is a moment of truth for Republicans... There is no way to defend the indefensible. In the name of decency, Republicans should admit that this deviant — this sociopath — cannot be president. [...] Never in history has a party nominated someone more unfit to be president. There is still time for Republicans to acknowledge their mistake and salvage their dignity. They can do so by finally deciding to put the good of our country first."

Sen. Mark Kirk (R-IL): "DJT is a malignant clown - unprepared and unfit to be president of the United States. [...] @realDonaldTrump should drop out. @GOP should engage rules for emergency replacement."

2012 GOP nominee Mitt Romney: "Hitting on married women? Condoning assault? Such vile degradations demean our wives and daughters and corrupt America's face to the world."

Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-UT): I’m out. I can no longer in good conscience endorse this person for president. It is some of the most abhorrent and offensive comments that you can possibly imagine. [...] My wife, Julie and I, we've got a 15-year-old daughter. You think I can look her in the eye and tell her that I endorse Donald Trump for president when he acts like this?
CNN's Erin Burnett confronts Trump surrogate Scottie Nell Hughes over a 2010 sexual assault confided by a close friend that corroborates Trump's boasting.

Or witness GOP strategist Ana Navarro's 🔥righteous meltdown🔥 at Hughes that evening (and luxuriate in the split-screen reaction shots of the Trump supporters on the panel)

The Onion's take:
Trump: ‘I Know That Was Pretty Bad, But Let’s Just Say You’re Going To Want To Save Your Energy’

Trump Surrogate Enjoying Thrill Of Not Knowing What She Going To Be Defending Minute To Minute
Evangelical leaders, naturally, say they will continue to support Trump, with the Family Research Council's Tony Perkins saying, "My personal support for Donald Trump has never been based upon shared values." Journalist Farai Chideya has an excellent entry in her FiveThirtyEight series "The Voters" examining the painful paradoxes of evangelical Trump supporters.

(Speaking of which, former Trump chair Corey Lewandowski defends his boss by protesting that "we're not choosing a Sunday school teacher here," a perfect opportunity to note that Sec. Clinton is herself a former Sunday school teacher.)

FiveThirtyEight Senate Update: 6 Really Important Races Are Really Close

Comic relief: SNL's Alec Baldwin and Kate McKinnon on the first presidential debate. As for the Veep showdown, Greg Nog's puppets have another installment of ALL CANDIDATES DEBATE, while this Clinton ad is funnier than (Pence's) fiction. On the Daily Show, Trevor Noah dissect's Mike Pence's "broad-shouldered" bullshit. Need more schadenfreude in your life? Servile puppy dog Ted Cruz mans the phones shortly before the Trump tape drops... and finds himself the target of a Photoshop Battle. Lastly: Samantha Bee delivers a cutting parody of Trump's comments. Bee also explored the "beta version" of Trump in racist demagogue and Maine governor Paul LePage -- and considers the implications for the presidential election.

Housekeeping: The MeFiWiki's Election Thread Reference - MetaTalk Election Logistics thread - How to vote in every state - MeFi Chat (now including an election-only channel!)
posted by Rhaomi (2584 comments total) 208 users marked this as a favorite
 
Surely this.
posted by chavenet at 4:23 AM on October 8, 2016 [44 favorites]


Maybe. Maybe this.
posted by Artw at 4:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [138 favorites]


As I said in the last thread:

it's kind of laughable that NeverTrumpers are trying to get him off the ballot, seeing as how their actions over the last decade are what made the ground fertile for Trump. They've been supporting voter suppression, Ryan's disastrous and morally bankrupt budget plan, removal of health care for those who need it most, heartless immigration laws, anti-LGBTQ bigotry, the denial of 1st Amendment rights to religious minorities, anti-woman policies on health and children, neo-Confederate hogwash, and much much more. Sometimes they do it enthusiastically, sometimes they wrap it in shitty Confederate/Jim Crow language about "state's rights," sometimes by excusing away bigotry as earnest and heart-felt and honestly come by, and sometimes by their very noticeable silence and inaction when it was needed most.

Hell, literally to this day they're still demonstrating how someone like Trump came to be the nominee. Remember all of 18 hours ago when he insisted that five PoC deserved punishment for a crime they were exonerated for by the physical evidence? I don't recall seeing a single goddamned NeverTrumper standing up for the Central Park Five. That's moral and ethical (and spiritual, if they're religious) malpractice on a grand scale, and excuse me if I'm not exactly exercised that they're trying to get out of the same situation that they've worked so hard to create all this time.

To reverse a quote from Obama's 2012 campaign that even NeverTrumpers got upset over: They built that.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [191 favorites]


Wow, epic post, thanks.

I know Trump is a walking "Surely, this will..." joke, but this really is a milestone in his barrage of head-slapping moments/revelations. There's no grey area here--his misogyny and repugnant character are really, truly laid bare. Rather impossible to defend. Republicans still supporting Trump after this should have their feet held to the fire, repeatedly.
posted by zardoz at 4:26 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]


So... do you think Melania will wait until November 9th to file papers?
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 4:26 AM on October 8, 2016 [37 favorites]


How are people shocked by this? This is exactly how I imagined he behaved in private.
posted by double bubble at 4:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [250 favorites]


I think this scandal is different primarily because it makes trump look like a creep and a pervert. The phrasing is just so sleazy. It totally ruins his illusion of power that he was able to maintain through, for example, the tax scandal. You can imagine cheating on your taxes to get richer. Sexual assault and rape are a harder sell, even for the deplorables.
posted by codacorolla at 4:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


So I donated to Hilary a while back and I have to be honest that the constant email requests for additional donations were starting to get tiring. Then about 10 minutes ago I got this . . .

I’m sorry to every woman who has ever been attacked, assaulted, or even just whistled at on the street who is now watching this man and his unabashed, flagrant sexism inch closer and closer to the presidency.

I’m sorry to the voters in the Republican Party who are faced with the choice of ignoring this kind of disgusting behavior or admitting that their candidate is a xenophobic, hateful reversion to a more backward time. I’m sorry -- and I’m so, so glad to have a candidate that I can fight my heart out for every minute of the next 31 days.

If you’re with Hillary -- and dear god, do I hope you’re with Hillary right now -- chip in $100, and let’s crush this guy in every county from Maine to Hawaii.


. . . aaaaand pulled out my wallet again cause this shit is real.
posted by jeremias at 4:28 AM on October 8, 2016 [98 favorites]


He’s never gon' be President now... ♪♫

Do you want to tempt the wrath of the whatever from high atop the thing????
posted by Snarl Furillo at 4:28 AM on October 8, 2016 [60 favorites]




It's likely that they do not.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [30 favorites]


His attempts at apologies are surreal.
posted by notreally at 4:40 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


It's interesting to think that so many of his supporters could excuse his comments about people of colour, people with disabilities, and muslim people, but that this is unacceptable.

I completely agree that it's unacceptable, but let's not forget what came before. People are going to spin this so it looks like they knew he was a rotten egg from the beginning, but the truth is that there are a lot of people who were okay with his racism and islamophobia. If indeed this is the end of him, it's a sad indictment that nothing that came before was bad enough for many people.
posted by twirlypen at 4:40 AM on October 8, 2016 [92 favorites]


As much as I would have loved to see Hillary beat a more serious opponent, it will at least be poetically satisfying to see Trump's own sexism used to deliver the finishing move as he is crushed by a woman.
posted by p3t3 at 4:41 AM on October 8, 2016 [70 favorites]


:o
(Literally, just speechless. Wow.)
posted by sexyrobot at 4:43 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]





twirlypen: "it's a sad indictment that nothing that came before was bad enough for many people."

oh, it's obviously appalling that someone like him is still a public figure after... being introduced to him decades ago.

I just want to say the terribly weak "locker room talk" excuse shit is so infuriating to me. I'm admittedly a fairly run-of-the-mill cis white male American vanilla middle-class whatever and I have never, ever said shit like that about a woman, and never would. I have heard men say some really bad shit, but still this is really up there in terms of baseness and wretchedness.
I find it hilarious that he and his surrogates are saying "well, that was 12 years ago"... yeah, when he was just an impetuous youth, a foolish lad of 60.
posted by Red Loop at 4:44 AM on October 8, 2016 [162 favorites]


So... do you think Melania will wait until November 9th to file papers?

Her marriage contract probably doesn't allow for it.
posted by Artw at 4:44 AM on October 8, 2016 [22 favorites]


No man in my family ever spoke like this. Where does this stuff come from?

Gah, what a calamity for America that this person ever was.
posted by wenestvedt at 4:47 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


So... do you think Melania will wait until November 9th to file papers?

In all honesty do you not think she knew what she was getting into when she signed on to being a billionaires third supermodel wife? Or at least knew a long time before now? Clearly it's a bargain she's willing to make.
posted by bracems at 4:47 AM on October 8, 2016 [42 favorites]


It's strange. A lot of Mefites have expressed surprise that anyone is surprised, and you know, I was pretty shocked actually.

I mean, not at the discovery that Trump was a disgusting sexist pig. Sure, anyone who paid attention to him for 10 seconds would know that.

But there IS actually something abnormal in his comments. There are lots of men who feel comfortable constantly rating every woman around them on an attractiveness scale. They use words like bitch and whore and slut and talk about what they'd like to do to her or whatever. That's actual locker-room talk. It's sexist and I'm not excusing it at all.

But talking about how you like to sexually assault women and they don't even mind. That's an entirely different thing. Bragging about how you get away with it. And the worst part to me is that I don't think Trump understands at all that he's talking about committing a crime. He very obviously, in both of his official reactions to the tape, doesn't get why it's a big deal. He thinks he said something offensive. He doesn't realize he described himself committing sexual assault.

THAT. That is a fucking psychopath. That is, I think, why this is the last straw. Why people are reacting to it. It's not just because it's sexist. It's because they got an up close and personal glimpse underneath the human mask and realized Holy Shit, he really is a fucking monster.
posted by threeturtles at 4:48 AM on October 8, 2016 [381 favorites]


This is a great, well-structured, and comprehensive Election2016 post (and FPP in general). Thanks Rhaomi.
posted by Wordshore at 4:50 AM on October 8, 2016 [64 favorites]


Are people shocked? We all knew. The power of this is its undeniable, easily digestible and laid bare for all to see in a format that reaches where others do not.

We all also know there's more. One assumes an army of people are going through the Apprentice tapes right now if they weren't already.
posted by vbfg at 4:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


My personal support for Donald Trump has never been based upon shared values.

Dude, bigotry and spite are values.
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [113 favorites]


I eagerly await the Trump camp to try and spin this as more liberal media persecution, some sort of political witch hunt. Because Clinton has been under scrutiny for decades now, and has been investigated by the FBI and hauled before Congress on multiple occasions, all of which turned up basically nothing.

Trump, on the other hand, can't even go one political campaign worth of scrutiny without his king-sized, gold-plated closet full of skeletons spilling out so badly that even GOP hacks are jumping to repudiate him.
posted by Panjandrum at 4:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]


In other news, I think my schadenfreude gland has become inflamed from over-stimulation.
posted by Panjandrum at 4:53 AM on October 8, 2016 [107 favorites]


Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-UT): I’m out. I can no longer in good conscience endorse this person for president. It is some of the most abhorrent and offensive comments that you can possibly imagine. [...] My wife, Julie and I, we've got a 15-year-old daughter. You think I can look her in the eye and tell her that I endorse Donald Trump for president when he acts like this?

And yet you and your cronies were willing to turn the other fucking way when he attacked every other fucking minority group in existence, just to keep your precious grip on political power in this country. So now we know just how much a bridge too far is to your personal repugnant "conscience." It's the line that crosses your "FUCK YOU, I'VE GOT MINE" philosophy.

I was never voting for Trump. But I have an 8 year old daughter who loves school and was excited to start third grade, yet who is now having to deal with some boys in her class that have been pulling on her arm, calling her names and other shitty behavior. Who came home in tears on Wednesday saying that they were ruining school for her. I can only imagine little 8 year old bullies proudly proclaiming to her that President Donald Trump does it so it's okay.

To 8 year old American kids, the President is often a big deal. Someone to idolize. People who run for the office can seem larger than life. Heck, that's not restricted to 8 year olds! It applies to much of the country. So given a choice, Republicans nominated a guy for President whom bullies and rapists and misogynists and racists can idolize. Good job, motherfuckers.

It's nice that you're suddenly worried about what your daughter will think, Representative Chaffetz. But it's an absolute sin that you didn't consider other people's daughters until your orange fucking chicken came home to roost.

And before we laud Chaffetz' "brave" decision, he's still not going to vote for the one person that could keep Trump out of office. So this is meaningless symbolic nonsense from yet another Republican asshole.
posted by zarq at 4:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [302 favorites]


Watching some MSNBC before leaving for work. These newscasters (I'm looking at you, Chuck Todd) are all I'm shocked, shocked to discover what a vile douchebag Donald is and realizing he doesn't have the moral authority to be president. If they'd bothered to do any journalism instead of letting Donald define the terms of the reporting and being swayed by his money and celebrity, if they'd paid any attention to his pervasive lack of respect for anybody not rich and white and male, it would be far different race.

I am so glad it's an issue of equality and respect for women as human beings that's tanking his campaign.
posted by theora55 at 4:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [38 favorites]


I didn't read all the comments in the previous thread & can't open it on my phone, so this excellent article by Alexandra Petri of the Washington Post may have been linked, but it's worth reading.

Ah, yes, just locker room banter. As far as I can tell, the conversations in men’s locker rooms all must go something like this.

First man: Phew! Thank goodness. It was exhausting to have to walk through the world talking to all those women as though they were just people, like us. Clearly, they are not. They are women. Their bodies exist for us to look at and do sex to.

Second Man: I do sex constantly! I obtained a great deal of sex today from the many walking sex dispensers that are to be found drifting through the world! I must obtain as much as possible from the best-looking dispensers so that I can win respect from fellow men like you!

. . .

That is the awful thing about this conversation. It is not that it is especially lewd, although it is. It is not that it is violent and awful and wrong, although it is. It is the fact that it is, within certain circles, still quite normal. It’s the fact that Donald Trump used, as a defense, the idea that he’d said much worse.

It’s the fact that when Billy Bush heard him, Bush did not stop the bus they were riding on and say, “MY GOD, MAN, YOU ARE SICK! THIS IS SICK! THIS IS AWFUL!” He nodded. He laughed. You had the sense that Donald Trump could have escalated still further — past non-consensually grabbing people by the p—y (that’s sexual assault, by the way) — and into building himself a coat from female skin before Bush would have begun pushing back.


posted by insectosaurus at 5:00 AM on October 8, 2016 [83 favorites]


Just as the beans and corn harvest begins, the Trump-Pence yard signs have started sprouting around here like fucking super-dandelions. It's crazy. I don't even think Muncie had a Hillary office where I can pick up a couple of logo pins. (I'd put a yard sign up but, this is the land where vandalism can be very, very ugly.)
posted by Thorzdad at 5:03 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


One thought I had: how are future grade school textbooks going to report on this if it is indeed an inflection point in the campaign?
posted by codacorolla at 5:05 AM on October 8, 2016 [34 favorites]


insectosaurus: "It’s the fact that when Billy Bush heard him, Bush did not stop the bus they were riding on and say, “MY GOD, MAN, YOU ARE SICK! THIS IS SICK! THIS IS AWFUL!” He nodded. He laughed. You had the sense that Donald Trump could have escalated still further — past non-consensually grabbing people by the p—y (that’s sexual assault, by the way) — and into building himself a coat from female skin before Bush would have begun pushing back."

VOTE TRUMP 2016: Because of the Implication
posted by Rhaomi at 5:05 AM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]


For all the rafts of stats about voting behavior, there's one we'll never get come November: the number of Republican men who mistakenly believe that their wives voted for Donald Trump.
posted by Short Attention Sp at 5:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [157 favorites]


I'm sorry your daughter has had to deal with that, zarq.

codacorolla, that's an interesting question. My older child has begun paying more attention to the news, and I'm torn between wanting him to see just how unacceptable that kind of behavior is and wanting to limit it to the good news about Trump's declining support.
posted by Songdog at 5:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


One thought I had: how are future grade school textbooks going to report on this if it is indeed an inflection point in the campaign?

Depends who wins. If it's DT, maybe they'll use a centerfold.
posted by chavenet at 5:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


I just now watched GregNog's video linked in the FPP. Great stuff. All the puppets are excellent, and the writing, and directing, etc. The news cycle moves so fast that the VP pick almost seems like last year, but it's exactly what I needed after the latest Trumpstorm of Shame.
posted by krinklyfig at 5:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Great post. Appropriately epic for this moment.

I still can't get over the way he says "moved on her" over and over. It's so creepy.
posted by sallybrown at 5:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


It was likely linked in the other thread and if so, I apologize, but this article by Virginia Heffernan about Trump's appearances on Howard Stern back in the 90's is a pretty great look into just this 'shit-talking/locker-room' business.

Also, though it's an entirely appropriate response, on the part of everyone calling him out, I thought the calls to '2nd amendment supporters' to take care of Hillary was even creepier.
posted by From Bklyn at 5:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


I have a family member --- a young, mixed-race (Mexican, Apache, Filipina and a few other things) woman --- who still, even after this latest crap hit the news, is planning to vote for Trump. I find it impossible to understand how in the world she can possibly justify voting for a man who 1) hates her because she is female, 2) hates her because she is brown-skinned, and 3) hates her because both of her parents are immigrants to this country.
posted by easily confused at 5:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]


It's as though everything Trump knows about women and men he learned from the "Penthouse Letters" column back in the 80s.
posted by wenestvedt at 5:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


I'm sorry your daughter has had to deal with that, zarq.

Thanks. We've spoken with the school's administrators, who are stepping in.
posted by zarq at 5:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [48 favorites]


One thought I had: how are future grade school textbooks going to report on this if it is indeed an inflection point in the campaign?

I think they'll just say it was a series of missteps that doomed a long-troubled candidacy. Retrospectively -- not living in fear of catastrophe -- he will look like someone who never had a chance to begin with.
posted by gerryblog at 5:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]


Trump-Pence yard signs have started sprouting around here like fucking super-dandelions.

Ugh, there is a GIANT (maybe 8x4 foot) Trump-Pence sign next to the shared driveway to my apartment building. One of my neighbors checked with management about it, and they said that the commercial building that shares the driveway authorized it - it is on that side. Apparently a Republican group is renting space in the building and has permission to have it up. Now I have to see it every time I leave or arrive home.

So earlier this morning we spent as little over $100 in the Clinton merch store and got shirts, buttons, and a sign for our window. It doesn't make the big sign go away, but it helps me feel a little better

I am very tempted to vandalize the Trump sign - I won't, but I want to.
posted by insectosaurus at 5:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [22 favorites]


how are future grade school textbooks going to report on this if it is indeed an inflection point in the campaign?

My memory of school history textbooks is that they spent very little time discussing campaigns - a little bit on how the televised debates influenced the choice between Kennedy and Nixon, a little bit on Watergate, but not much else.

But if they talk about it, I can see it playing out like this vine.
posted by Jeanne at 5:18 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


His attempts at apologies are surreal.

He doesn't believe he did anything wrong.

Frankly, if this ends with the family losing the rights to the name, it's a small beginning.
posted by mikelieman at 5:19 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'm on my way to New Hampshire in half an hour. Today will be FASCINATING.
posted by pxe2000 at 5:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


I'm hoping this episode is in the textbooks in the chapter that explains why there isn't a Republican party anymore.
posted by diogenes at 5:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [85 favorites]


It's as though everything Trump knows about women and men he learned from the "Penthouse Letters" column back in the 80s.

How do you know that's not exactly the case?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:28 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Locker room talk: man I'd like to grab her right in the pussy

Trump: oh I always just grab them whether they like it or not
posted by that's how you get ants at 5:29 AM on October 8, 2016 [33 favorites]


Woke up this morning remembering how much flack Jimmy Carter got from conservatives and Christians for admitting that he "had lusted in his heart. "
posted by Sublimity at 5:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [224 favorites]


1. What candidates said and did in the past was kept from public view till recent times. JFK, FDR, LBJ were marital cheaters but that kept by the press from the public

2. What Trump said was in fact not at all unusual. Kissinger once remarked that power is a wonderful aphrodisiac...and we all know about the casting couch in Hollywood. The rich are not like others, to glance at an F. Scott Fitzgerald remark.

3. Important to note: the Trump Dump (this video) pushes aside the Wikileaks material on Hillary and her corporate speeches and hypocrisy.
Finally those of us supporting the Democrats are delighted at this deadly wound to the Trump campaign, a campaign already in deep trouble according to all polls.
posted by Postroad at 5:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I am very tempted to vandalize the Trump sign - I won't, but I want to.

Here's the thing about taking the high ground - someone else is always gonna crack and take the low road, eventually.

So if you take the high ground, you get the satisfaction of knowing that you behaved admirably, AND you often get the satisfaction of seeing that petty thing you wanted to do still happening anyway.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [74 favorites]


I think one reason this scandal has pushed things over the edge is that it clicks in profound ways with other bad but not quite as disturbing aspects of Trump's behavior, all of which point to one guiding philosophy:
If there's nobody who can stop you, you can take what you want.
Trump obviously thinks this is true of everything -- women, money, real estate, and even the Presidency. It explains his casual refusal to pay vendors and his shameless string of bankruptcies and screwed-over business partners.

What is striking about the pussy quote is that this is so obviously a window to Trump's true nature. It's not an act or posturing or a sales job; the man was 59 years old so this is not something he's going to grow out of. And most of the other stuff he's done is stuff that is semi-admirable if you look at it sideways, like sharp trading instead of cheating or bankruptcy as a clever use of the law instead of a badge of shame. But this just nakedly exposes Trump's real motivation, which is that if you aren't able to stop Trump from taking it then it belongs to Trump.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [89 favorites]


I'm a woman, so maybe that's why I don't get this, but when Trump sez "Grab 'em by the pussy" I don't understand why Billy Bush's reaction isn't just "Wow. How does that work. Don't they sever your hand from your arm as their thighs contract violently in horror? Don't they sue you for something?"

And writing this, I thought, no, because the understood assumption here is that once you are DJT, women will enjoy being kissed without asked. They will enjoy being raped.

So I honestly don't care if he refers to women's genitals as pussy outside of the fact that damn, man, are you in seventh grade, or how often he says fuck to refer to sex.

It's that he's pushing the notion that women are asking for it.

Yeah, there's really no amount of suffering this toadstool would go through and I'd feel sorry for him. I don't believe in hell, so I wish him a remainder of days that are dark and joyless.
posted by angrycat at 5:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [36 favorites]


Just as the beans and corn harvest begins ...

As I started reading this I thought poffin boffin was going to call on us to build the wicker man.

I am disappoint.
posted by krinklyfig at 5:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [88 favorites]


How are people shocked by this? This is exactly how I imagined he behaved in private.

This. Trump supporters I know are still going to vote for him because they don't care what he says. They've been able to shrug off every ridiculous thing that's come out of his mouth since the beginning. They see him as a smart businessman who's going to save the country. They don't think a woman can be president, period. It doesn't go any deeper than that.

Those who are expecting depth, or a level of insight from Trump supporters and think, "Surely this. THIS will make them see the light;" they don't understand that Trump supporters think they already DO see the light. They don't WANT to dig deeper and to think.

Their minds were made up as soon as he entered the race. NOTHING is going to change their minds.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:34 AM on October 8, 2016 [39 favorites]


He's cooked. Let's just enjoy watching him scramble for the next month.
posted by davebush at 5:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


I think it's okay to vandalize swastikas and the like. In fact, it may be a moral requirement. And at this point, the Trump name is getting pretty close to that.
posted by rikschell at 5:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [26 favorites]


Appalling and not surprising.

But what angers me the most right now is not this individual, repellent man, but the silence that has surrounded his abuse of women throughout his campaign. Anyone who has been silent until now on Donald Trump's abuse of women is complicit in his crimes. I cannot take any of the news rebukes or revocations of support seriously. This is rape culture writ large.

Seriously, fuck Donald Trump, fuck the GOP, and fuck anyone who votes for him. It is inexcusable. It is beyond the pale. It goes beyond the plausible deniability of different politics--it is plainly, clearly, throwing women under the bus for the sake of party loyalty.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 5:36 AM on October 8, 2016 [45 favorites]


I think it's okay to vandalize swastikas and the like. In fact, it may be a moral requirement. And at this point, the Trump name is getting pretty close to that.

No need to do that. Just make up some stickers with his new slogan, "GRAB THEM BY THE PUSSY!" and adhere them neatly to the bottom of each sign.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 5:38 AM on October 8, 2016 [74 favorites]


pxe2000, I would love to hear reactions from voters you canvass, if you want to share!
posted by sallybrown at 5:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


Also worth noting, since this story broke a number of models and beauty pageant contestants have mentioned his tendency to take unsolicited kisses full on the mouth and groping. Trump probably believes, like the similarly loathesome Henry Kissinger, that wealth and power are aphrodisiacs that make people like him irresistable to women. Thus his genuine puzzlement when he was unable to bed the married woman he'd targeted.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


My friends who are Trump supporters are doubling down and reposting some article about how Trump Casinos hired more women than men. Posted with the words "Actions speak louder than words." I just can't even.

It's seriously as though they inhabit some other time/space dimension which only loosely touches ours. In their dimension, Trump is a hero and a truly great man, and all of their press and news says it is so. They look at our reaction to "our" Trump with horror and fail to recognise it.

I suppose nobody likes to admit that they've been conned.
posted by frumiousb at 5:43 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


GOP insiders: It's not a knockout blow.

Is this the denial or the bargaining stage of grief?
posted by dis_integration at 5:43 AM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


Well, I'm not sure it's a knock-out blow. I hope it is, surely. But if there was ever a political version of Jason Voorhees then Trump is it. Don't turn your back on the corpse.
posted by frumiousb at 5:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [52 favorites]


GOP insiders: It's a mere flesh wound.
posted by drezdn at 5:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [38 favorites]


dis_integration: It's denial. If it was bargaining they would be making offerings that could make up for it.

Thing is, when 46% of your own party says you're toast, and your party is just about exactly half of the electorate, you are pretty burnt and crispy.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


It's fascinating seeing which media orgs have quoted the video verbatim and which have interspersed asterisks, dashes, etc. -- and which have started out taking the latter approach, then switched to direct quotes (like the NY Times). We're watching real-time editorial decision-making on the dilemma of newsworthiness vs. preserving the standards of public discourse.

Which forces you to step back and realize how much Trump has dragged U.S. public discourse into the gutter. Then there's the matter of a candidate for the U.S. presidency bragging of committing repeated sexual assaults.

May these be the final death throes of frat boy rape culture.
posted by rhnyc1 at 5:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [102 favorites]


How are people shocked by this? This is exactly how I imagined he behaved in private.

I'm not shocked that he said these things. There's been implicit knowledge of him behaving deplorably towards women, & several things have been put out there - statements from court filings & such that haven't taken hold because they weren't his words, so there's been some one side/the other side spin put on the reports. This time though, it's his own words & not only are they awful things to say, he is actually admitting to sexual assault on tape. I for one am glad to see the gunny sack tear open to lay bare the ball of snakes within & am relatively certain that this it the Trumptanic hitting the iceberg. Only his paid surrogates are going on tv and saying "What...the ship's not sinking, in fact the bow is 150 feet in the air!" Everyone else is trying to get aboard a lifeboat (USS Unpossible-- replace him on the ballot) or just simply donning life vests and hoping to survive November. Essentially, I am unsurprised in any way shape or form, but rather filled with glee.
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


If the people who are going to vote for him actually cared one whit what Trump said, his numbers would have tanked ages ago. This latest revelation will make only the tiniest difference to his support. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't been paying attention at all.
The only difference is that the public figures who didn't have to disavow him when he bad mouthed the immigrants or handicapped or whoever else now seem to be thinking that they have to distance themselves. Sure, making fun of brown people or cripples is fine, but don't mess with the chicks!
posted by conifer at 5:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


mikelieman: Frankly, if this ends with the family losing the rights to the name, it's a small beginning.

I want the Trump name to be destroyed. No more developing real estate, no more selling naming rights for buildings, driven towards bankruptcy. And I want those chucklefuck sons to be forced to work forward-facing customer service jobs at a carpet warehouse, forever mocked about their shitty family name, never able to afford another goddamn hunting safari.
posted by bluecore at 5:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [125 favorites]


Since this news broke I've been fantasizing about printing up RAPIST stickers to cover the TRUMP on yard signs, but imagining is as far as I intend to go with the idea. Not least because there aren't any TRUMP signs near me.

(The Republican neighbor has signs for the (very bad) incumbent governor and (even worse) incumbent lieutenant governor, but all the other signs are for Democrats; Clinton's and various local campaigns in roughly equal measure. As is fit for the residents of a locale that's been gerrymandered to hell; after getting beaten with a shitty stick for years by the Republicans the only grounds for supporting them here is because you're new to town or you're not bright.)
posted by at by at 5:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


For "evangelicals" the only thing that matters is getting a conservative Supreme Court justice. They will never give up on Trump. This latest news will not bring him down.
posted by SyraCarol at 5:57 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


> How are people shocked by this? This is exactly how I imagined he behaved in private.

Evidence is better than speculation.
posted by at by at 5:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


Important to note: the Trump Dump (this video) pushes aside the Wikileaks material on Hillary and her corporate speeches and hypocrisy.

I'm literally laughing out loud.
posted by codacorolla at 5:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]


THAT. That is a fucking psychopath. That is, I think, why this is the last straw. Why people are reacting to it. It's not just because it's sexist. It's because they got an up close and personal glimpse underneath the human mask and realized Holy Shit, he really is a fucking monster

Again, I submit that the reason this broke the proverbial camels back is not the sexism. He's been plenty sexist and psychopathic. It's because he disparaged a white woman and Paul Ryan, et al, could finally not stand for THAT.
posted by Sophie1 at 5:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [39 favorites]


Over the last couple of days I've been checking out 538.com a lot more frequently and it never fails to cheer me up.
posted by TedW at 6:00 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


Important to note: the Trump Dump (this video) pushes aside the Wikileaks material on Hillary and her corporate speeches and hypocrisy.

"Saying the same things she was telling everyone else back in 2008-2014" is kind of the opposite of hypocrisy. A lot of what she said back then was the reason a lot of us voted for Bernie.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]


There are no skeletons in the closet IF THE ENTIRE HOUSE IS MADE OF SKELETONS.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:03 AM on October 8, 2016 [164 favorites]


It's not a knockout blow because, as will be argued from coast to coast, Hillary is married to a well-documented chronic pussyhound and accused rapist and therefore, at worst this is a push on disqualifying sexism.

Whether or not Bill ever crossed the line between piggish sexual conquest and rape, to whatever degree, is debatable. Hopefully not in this thread lest many posts vanish abruptly. The point is that Trump's base will either (a) not see anything all that wrong about the women of the world being merely a smorgasbord for men to pick from or (b) find ways to rationalize to themselves how The Supreme Court Is More Important and Bill Clinton Was Worse and It's A Small Price To Pay To Keep All Guns From Being Seized And The Constitution Shat Upon And We'll All Be Murdered In Our Beds.
posted by delfin at 6:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


I suppose nobody likes to admit that they've been conned.
And Donald Trump is, more than anything else, a con man. He figured out the themes to appeal to the most gullible members of the U.S. population, who are overwhelmingly white males, made extravagant promises with zero details on how to accomplish them (although his persistence in the Border Wall makes me believe he has a specific plan to profit personally from anything that gets built) and doubled down with themes of frustration, despair and anger, while being open in his bigotry like few successful politicians before him to get the reputation of "saying what we're all thinking". Well, his constituency DOESN'T think, and so they cannot be expected to think better of what they're doing.

If there's anything that may shake the confidence in the not-deplorable-just-dumb Trumpists, it would be to show how much some of New York's most elite organizations did to prop up this serial-business-failure and contribute to his past cons. But I doubt the concept could fit into their small brains. If I ever wanted to make a lot of money dishonestly, all I'd need would be a database of the Trump for President contributors. A basket of suckers.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:05 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]


It's not a knockout blow because, as will be argued from coast to coast, Hillary is married to a well-documented chronic pussyhound and accused rapist and therefore, at worst this is a push on disqualifying sexism.

Here's the beautiful beautiful thing though: Trump has absolutely zero high ground now on launching the "BUT YOU MARRIED A SEX DOG RAPIST" assault on Hillary. If this is guys bein' guys, this is guys bein' guys, amirite?

I mean, for god's sake, his initial "defense" to this before his PR machine stepped in was "BILL CLINTON SAID EVEN WORSE THINGS WHEN WE USED TO HANG OUT PLAYING GOLF ALL THE TIME OK."
posted by blue suede stockings at 6:08 AM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]


A basket of suckers.

Well, ain't that America.

This is what you get when you carefully train 100 million people over a period of decades to respond Pavlovianly to the cult of celebrity, populist appeals and finely tuned messages of the day.
posted by delfin at 6:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [28 favorites]


All of this stuff analyzing this from the horse-race perspective, all of the stuff like dis_integration's link in which some GOP insiders smirk that "[o]ur politics is tribal and polarized. So it's not like this swings the thing 10 points.,” all of it....

It is the very picture of a culture in denial, of rape culture refusing to recognize itself in the mirror.

This may be the inflection point for the election. I am very afraid that it will not be the much-needed inflection point at which people en masse start to think about how we got this sort of a candidate, about how all of this seems to be tied together to an entrenched ideological formation that immiserates our present and will kill our future.

This is going to become "one bad actor/apple," and where that doesn't work, a quick oscillation to "sure, but it's perfectly normal." When #notallmen or #notallpolice or #notallbanksters or whatever doesn't work, then the oscillation back to "it's just the way of politics, boys will be boys, well he seemed dangerously black, the market is wiser than we know" happens.

Our society has gotten so good at that, at keeping two mutually exclusive rationalizations in play. Because the alternative would hard and difficult, the way the right thing always is when all you know is the wrong thing.
posted by kewb at 6:10 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]


It's because he disparaged a white woman and Paul Ryan, et al, could finally not stand for THAT.

Again, I think it's really important to push back on this. It's not "disparagement", it's not "lewd comments", it's not "sexism", it's not "locker room talk".

It's a man admitting to sexually assaulting women and saying it's okay because they probably liked it because he was powerful.
posted by corb at 6:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [264 favorites]


Something that has been striking me more and more, a divide between "celebrity culture" and simple decency. Go ahead, look at TMZ and tell me that people with money, celebrity or other power don't assume anyone who interacts with them is out for what they can get and is free for the taking. Donald Trump has been moving in those ethereal circles for a very long time.
posted by Peach at 6:12 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Bringing this comment over from the previous thread:
So basically, the RNC can replace him, but the GOP would have to accept a lot of negative consequences in order to do so.
This is exactly what we heard at the convention, and it never happened. Has this latest "revelation" about Trump really changed anything in that regard?

None of this should have been a surprise to the GOP. He was a known quantity. They already accepted "a lot of negative consequences" just putting him on the ticket.

The GOP is in a self-made hole so deep that nothing they do now will change that.
posted by zakur at 6:12 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


> I was thinking of overwriting "Make America Great Again" with "Grab America By The Pussy".

Have at it. Random strangers won't necessarily recognize your irony, though.
posted by at by at 6:13 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Those of us who lived through the Rob Ford era in Toronto recognize that history is repeating itself. Welcome to the Crack Tape moment. It's sort of combined with Ford's "plenty to eat at home" moment, which also prominently featured the word pussy.

Ford kept soldiering on, and his popularity sank only slightly. You couldn't end him politically, just chip away from his popularity. The donors dried up and his media appologists got a bit quieter. Over his 4 year term of unbelievably bad governance, he went from the mid 40's to about 25% in the polls. That was it. So it will be with Trump.

Also, what's up with Wikileaks? The timing of their dump yesterday is absurd. They are political, and bad at it. It seems like they pulled forward their October surprise to try to counter this tape, and it failed horribly.
posted by thenormshow at 6:13 AM on October 8, 2016 [38 favorites]


You know, women have locker rooms too, and we talk in them. I did jiu jitsu for a while and in the locker room we'd talk about which men weren't safe to roll with as a woman because they didn't like getting beaten by girls even in practice when we're all learning so they'd go really hard against you. They were so angry at the possibility that you might be better or stronger than they were that they'd use more force than was appropriate in the class. Thanks to the other women there, there were men with whom I learned not to roll because it was potentially dangerous. It must be fun to use the locker room to talk about how you can get whatever you want with no repercussions instead of needing to use it to trade information important for your safety! I think I would enjoy that much more! Unfortunately, here we all are where he gets to talk about women as things while women (including me) have to talk about how to protect ourselves. It's not as much fun!
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 6:13 AM on October 8, 2016 [269 favorites]


I do feel bad for Tic-Tacs getting their name dragged into this.
posted by TedW at 6:14 AM on October 8, 2016 [31 favorites]


Speaking of Paul Ryan (warning: creepy-ass picture of the zombie-eyed granny-starver himself)...

@saladinahmed: WOMEN SHOULD NOT BE OBJECTIFIED THEY SHOULD BE CHERISHED AND KEPT IN GLASS COFFINS THAT SMELL OF LILACS UNTIL THE BREEDING MONTHS ARRIVE
posted by zombieflanders at 6:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [77 favorites]


Tic Tacs are having the opposite of a Red Lobster moment right now.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


[A couple deleted. Folks, let's step back a bit from the gross genitalia / rapey jokes, please. I understand it's sort of the weird, bouncing off the wall giddiness of the moment, but people still need to be able to read this thread without serious distress.]
posted by taz at 6:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]


Trump has absolutely zero high ground now on launching the "BUT YOU MARRIED A SEX DOG RAPIST" assault on Hillary.

He never did. Even a casual observer of Trump over the years knew he was a sleazeball, hence the evangelicals' constant response to cries of hypocrisy of We Are Not Voting For Who He Is But For What He Will Do In Office.

The point is that this will shore up Hillary's numbers amongst reasonable people _but they were already not voting for him_. And yet the big election remains close.
posted by delfin at 6:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


I want the Trump name to be destroyed. No more developing real estate, no more selling naming rights for buildings, driven towards bankruptcy. And I want those chucklefuck sons to be forced to work forward-facing customer service jobs at a carpet warehouse, forever mocked about their shitty family name, never able to afford another goddamn hunting safari.

Was saying to my Dad last night that I want all of them, especially Trump to fall to the point where he has to fix his own toilet and mow his own lawn. Basically have to to do their own mundane chores because there is no one else. If prison doesn't happen this is the next best scenario for me.
posted by Jalliah at 6:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [22 favorites]


A reminder to not get complacent. Sure victory + low voter turnout + "I'm making a statement with my vote!" = Brexit. Don't quit. Get out the vote. Make it a landslide.
posted by bluecore at 6:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [153 favorites]


I do feel bad for Tic-Tacs getting their name dragged into this.

I can't remember where (Twitter?) but I saw somebody joking that somewhere the Tic Tacs social media guy was getting ready to roll out for the weekend when suddenly...
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]


Probably the only thing keeping this from being a knockout blow is Future First Husband Bill's bad reputation. (As well as the only thing preventing a real sea change in thinking about Rape Culture) But the downward trend is just reinforced by this, and the more Trump "fights back", the worse he's going to look because he has zero skill in dealing with any situation where he isn't dominant.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:18 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


This is not, I imagine, how the GOP hoped America would forget about his tax returns.
posted by MoonOrb at 6:19 AM on October 8, 2016 [95 favorites]


Get out the vote. Make it a landslide.

Yes, this. Vote, vote, vote. Don't stay home and don't take anything for granted. Offer rides to others who might need them. Get out the vote.
posted by frumiousb at 6:21 AM on October 8, 2016 [28 favorites]


Don't quit. Get out the vote. Make it a landslide.
With downticket victories too. The Clinton campaign (with all its MeFite volunteers) is doing that right. But they/we have to keep up the work on November 9th, when the campaign for the 2018 mid-terms start.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


This is not, I imagine, how the GOP hoped America would forget about his tax returns.

2016: the Monkey's Paw election.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 6:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [34 favorites]


the Tic Tacs social media guy

America, in a pellet.
posted by spitbull at 6:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


This is exactly what we heard at the convention, and it never happened. Has this latest "revelation" about Trump really changed anything in that regard?

Yes and no. So, #NeverTrump has been struggling on - limping, really - over the last month, continuing to try, in what we all believed was probably a futile effort but had to be done, to get rid of Trump on a variety of fronts. The two that had the most potential to be promising -if, again, unlikely - were:
1) criminal and civil charges for the election interference that happened in Cleveland, with white supremacists showing up to hotel rooms, etc.
2) Getting at least 16 RNC members, from at least 16 different states, to call for invoking Rule 9, to force a meeting over whether or not Trump should be ruled otherwise unfit to continue as the nominee, and a new nominee called.

We've already been doing the work on that and had some RNC members from some different states. I'm ashamed that we couldn't clear the bar previously, but judging from reports from #NeverTrumpers in our other states, enough RNC members are appalled at this to possibly clear the bar. Now again, you guys who have been following all the megathreads will remember what they did in the Roll Call Vote issue - the RNC is not beyond ignoring petitions, saying various signatures don't count for whatever reason, etc. But it's a tool in the hands of the RNC that they could use if they wanted to.

Now, what the RNC as a body will do, and what Priebus and Ryan will allow to happen, are speculations outside my base of knowledge. Some of us are trying to keep pressure on them, but they've ignored our pressure before. So I don't know, but it's very well possible.

As has been said in previous threads, for a variety of reasons, if the RNC replaced Trump, they would likely not be able to replace him on all ballots, and without faithless electors, they would have no possible route to 270 electoral votes. However, I think it's important that we replace him anyway - that nowhere in our history books is Donald Trump winning a single elector - to say that you cannot brag about sexual assault and be appointed to the highest office in the land anymore. I think even if you would prefer other statements to have been that line in the sand, having this be the thing that knocks him out is a good thing and a serious blow to rape culture.
posted by corb at 6:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [96 favorites]


corb: It's a man admitting to sexually assaulting women and saying it's okay because they probably liked it because he was powerful.

And it's great that voting for this man for president is finally a red line not to be crossed for some. The sad thing is that for the great majority of Republicans and more than 40% of the total population, this is not a red line and they will still vote for him.
posted by sour cream at 6:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


I imagine that every TV show that has ever featured Trump is going through their archives right now looking for more.
posted by humanfont at 6:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


I agree that racism and xenophobia plays into why this video, rather than his earlier disgusting statements, is the one that finally sinks Trump. But it's also because of some things specific to the video:

- he is not just talking about his vile thoughts, he is acting them out on camera on a specific woman (he steps off the bus and it's as if he and Billy Bush are running through a demonstration of the rapey stuff they were just discussing); and

- this video predates the birther movement and his run for President, and is over "hot mic," so there is no argument that he's just pandering for voters or making these remarks as part of his tv show persona.

It is way way too simplistic to claim this one blew up because people care about white women.
posted by sallybrown at 6:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]


...or (b) find ways to rationalize to themselves how The Supreme Court Is More Important and Bill Clinton Was Worse and It's A Small Price To Pay To Keep All Guns From Being Seized And The Constitution Shat Upon And We'll All Be Murdered In Our Beds.
Henry Blake: The father dying, right?

Klinger: Yes, sir.

Henry Blake: [takes out a stack of papers and reads them] Father dying last year. Mother dying last year. Mother AND father dying. Mother, father, and older sister dying. Mother dying and older sister pregnant. Older sister dying and mother pregnant. Younger sister pregnant and older sister dying. Here's an oldie but a goodie: Half of the family dying, other half pregnant.
posted by jon1270 at 6:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]


for the great majority of Republicans and more than 40% of the total population, this is not a red line and they will still vote for him.

I don't know about this. For those of you who don't have a lot of Republicans on your timeline, even a lot of former Trump supporters are turning and saying they refuse to vote for him, that he must resign. One of my cousins of my father's generation had an epic flaming meltdown, where he talked about wanting his donation money back and how Trump had polluted the Republican Party. There is a lot of fury. Republicans are talking about how he is a predator and must be denied the White House. Evangelicals are finding this sickening.

Now, what will happen when a week goes by and Trump refuses to resign? That I don't know. But right now, at least, I genuinely do not believe that a majority of Republicans want to vote for him. People are talking - people who weren't talking before - about staying home if he is the nominee. And that's good news. That's really great news. What he did to women is terrible, but the fact that people are disgusted by it, all around, is one of the things that's really giving me hope right now.
posted by corb at 6:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [92 favorites]


When this news broke at 4:00 yesterday I was on MetaFilter and I didn't even bother clicking on the link. Instead I read about the Trump Taj Mahal closing and went on to make a comment about ad buys! Really. I've read so much about the guy and his rapes and near rapes I didn't think too much about the story-- I just figured it was another "Oh Donald is in another Playboy Porno" Ho Hum.

I did finally watch the video. I know various women have weighed in on the particular part that made them uncomfortable but for me it came at the end. The hostess is asked by Bush "If you had to pick one of us, who would you date?" and the poor woman put on the spot says first, "I plead the fifth." She must have realized that sounded too dismissive so she added, "I would date both of you." Ugh. Been there. This is something every woman runs up against at some point, having to appease and sound sweet while turning down a pass. You need to be sweet because turning someone down can have serious consequences-- socially, professionally, and even physically. If you don't stroke the guy's ego you can get labeled a cock tease, get fired, and even get raped. Always best to let them down easy.

This just emphasizes why Trump cannot get within even smelling distance of the White House. You think he won't use his power to kiss more women against their will? Or worse?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [98 favorites]


Republican politicians are shocked, SHOCKED by this recording... because Trump is losing badly and they want to distance themselves from their abominable creation. If he still had a 50% chance of winning this would be "political correctness gone mad". It's all meaningless unless they say categorically they won't be voting for him.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [43 favorites]


more than 40% of the total population

In other words, a little less than half deplorables, as Hillary said.

Heard a Trump surrogate accidentally refer to the leaked comments as "deplorable" (in the process of minimizing them, so "deplorable, BUT boys will be boys" etc.) and catch herself in time to change it to "unfortunate" or something with a look on her face that Bostonians of my salad days sometimes referred to as "Dawn Rise on Marble Head (sic)."

You gotta say it in a Southie accent for it to work.
posted by spitbull at 6:34 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


Ford kept soldiering on, and his popularity sank only slightly. You couldn't end him politically, just chip away from his popularity. The donors dried up and his media appologists got a bit quieter. Over his 4 year term of unbelievably bad governance, he went from the mid 40's to about 25% in the polls. That was it. So it will be with Trump.

A few differences. Ford was elected, after all. He was a mayor, not the PM or president. Plus, from what I understand, Ford was quite skilled at retail politics, going so far as to visit his constituents personally if someone told him they needed his help. Especially on that last part, Trump has no retail politics game, and he doesn't go out of his way to help people, nor have there been any such stories from the campaign. There's a reason Ford's constituency was so devoted, IIRC, and it wasn't just because he was a misogynist, racist trainwreck.
posted by krinklyfig at 6:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


Something that has been striking me more and more, a divide between "celebrity culture" and simple decency.

I don't know about that, but didn't the GOP lash out at Obama in 2008 for being a "celebrity candidate"? The big irony, of course, is that Obama wasn't a celebrity at all. Before his presidential run and outside his constituency, he was only known to a few politics geeks. If that made him a celebrity, then Washington is full of "celebrity" politicians. By contrast, Trump has "celebrity" written all over him, but for some reason, that didn't keep the GOP from making him their candidate. And it's not his celebrity status they're worried about, but rather whether he is controllable or not. - Of course, noone would have expected anyone else from those hypocrites, but it would be nice to have this hypocrisy called out a bit more.
posted by sour cream at 6:36 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


I suppose nobody likes to admit that they've been conned.

Exactly so and they double down.

The Trump supporters I know are not going to say anything negative about Trump. Not to get too far into it, but the people I'm speaking of are the same people who will apologize for throwing the gravy boat against the wall on Thanksgiving with, "If you hadn't made me so angry, I wouldn't have done it."

Personal responsibility and accepting blame are not in the wheelhouses of the Trump supporters I know. You will never hear them say they were wrong.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 6:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [22 favorites]


One of the top talking points from evangelical leaders excusing his behavior is that it doesn't matter because that Hillary supports Obama's Iran nuclear deal. And of course they support the candidate that is in favor of giving Saudi Arabia -- y'know, the country most strongly associated with 9/11 -- nuclear weapons.

I've got FB "friends" that are trained to parrot these talking points like Mr. Ed adding two numbers, it's sickening.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


wasn't just because he was a misogynist, racist trainwreck.

It was because he was THEIR misogynist, racist trainwreck!

Mutatis mutandis, the Deplorables.
posted by spitbull at 6:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]




I imagine that every TV show that has ever featured Trump is going through their archives right now looking for more.

What did Jeff "Corey Lewandowski has done a great job" Zucker and Les "“It may not be good for America, but it’s damn good for CBS" Moonves know, and how long have they known it?
posted by zombieflanders at 6:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


With how poorly he dealt with Macado, what are the chances of him just endlessly bringing it up for the next week? I can even see him randomly mentioning it in the town hall when *not* asked about it.
posted by Trifling at 6:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I don't know about that, but didn't the GOP lash out at Obama in 2008 for being a "celebrity candidate"?

Oh yeah, one of the funniest GOP attacks on Obama was the one that boiled down to "running somebody likeable and popular, who isn't a bitter, hate-consumed white supremacist psycopath, is cheating!"
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [34 favorites]


> ...for the great majority of Republicans and more than 40% of the total population, this is not a red line and they will still vote for him.

Less than 40% of adult citizens of the United States are white male. Even allowing generous assumptions regarding people who aren't white men, I find it difficult to believe they can crack 40%.

This is not an argument for complacency (get out and vote, people!). It's an argument that there's something wrong with the head count.
posted by at by at 6:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


People are talking - people who weren't talking before - about staying home if he is the nominee.

If they don't vote for him it's good news; if they stay home then the entire GOP downballot is in flames.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:41 AM on October 8, 2016 [36 favorites]




Impeach the Cheeto!
posted by clavdivs at 6:43 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


The big difference between this and his other attacks is in how specific and graphic it is. The racism is always slightly, if barely, coded. The misogyny he could pass off as "entertainment."

This is the first time we've had something that is just too plain vile to be denied or joked about.

I feel for Hillary having to debate this creature on Sunday.
posted by kanewai at 6:43 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


This is all beyond disturbing. I have been planning to vote for Hillary all along full disclosure.

The part that is getting me though is that I don't know why I'm not feeling more upset about this?
I would love to think that this will end him, but the larger part of me feels sad because it won't stop him. He will still win the election.

Perhaps I'm not more upset because this is the shit I'm forced to screen out and ignore every damn day as a woman.
This is the pack of construction workers shouting lewd things at me as I walk to the train on my way to work.
This is the odd man on the train saying what horrible things he wants to do to me as I try to ignore him while sipping my coffee and it's not even 8am yet.
These are the "colleagues" at work who interrupt and mansplain and make remarks that raise eyebrows in the conference room and then over lunch.
This is the dude at the bar talking to his buddy just a little too loudly about how "she must be a lesbian" because she wouldn't sleep with him and she was just a six anyway.
This is the past abusive relationship I was in who now mouths off to everyone that will listen to him that men don't have rights and he shouldn't have spent a night in jail because he beat the crap out of me.
This is every guy who claims I'm being too sensitive and blowing things out of proportion.

Perhaps I'm not more upset because this is the reality that I experience as a woman all damn day. I'm frustrated and saddened because to me it feels like he will just get away with this one too, and probably will.
posted by floweredfish at 6:44 AM on October 8, 2016 [98 favorites]


Flipping through headlines just saw one that mentioned rise of "threatening clown" sightings and of course I immediately thought of this.
posted by MoonOrb at 6:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


I'm currently living with a small community of catholic nuns in a small african village, volunteering at a health center. Which is hilarious for an american agnostic gay guy, but I digress.

I've recently had a lot of political discussions with the nuns, as much as I'm able to by meeting them in the middle between my bad kinyarwanda and their bad english. They are really knowledgeable and engaged about the american election, surprisingly so.

Recently at a dinner together I confessed to my boss, a 50-ish, stout, Cameroonian woman, "I'm a little afraid of Trump."

She patted my arm. "We're all afraid of Trump."
posted by Rinku at 6:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [197 favorites]


Any bets that Sunday's town hall debate figures will be north of 100 million? How's the prep going, Donald?
posted by Devonian at 6:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


4 out of 5 Pick-up Artists recommend Tic Tac breath mints to their victims.
posted by mikelieman at 6:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


His attempts at apologies are surreal.

They seem entirely too real if you imagine them coming from a serial abuser addressing his long-suffering victim.

"I've never said I'm a perfect person…" starts out with resetting expectations. The brief apology - "I was wrong, and I apologize." - is gotten out of the way with quickly and then dropped. The promise to change is just what everyone wants to hear: "I pledge to be a better man tomorrow and will never ever let you down." But next comes the switch to negate all this - "Let's be honest: we're living in the real world. This is nothing more than a distraction…" (and then come the distractions) - because the abuser isn't sorry, this is who he really is, and nothing's going to change.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [75 favorites]



Trump is haunting my TV. Still trying to figure out what happened. My TV has chromecast and not hooked up to any other outside source. It was off, my laptop was off. Lying in bed this am, just waking up and suddenly TV pops on and it's Trump apology 'I traveled the country...."

wTF! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! TURN IT OFF.

So I get up and Dad is in his room with his phone. Dad are you watching the apology? He says yes. Okay that explains part of it. Were you fiddling with chromecast Dad? What is chromecast? Okay I thought, he doesn't know how things work and must have accidentally done it somehow. I can live with that.

This does not explain how my TV turned on though.

Life is weird.
posted by Jalliah at 6:48 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


>> for the great majority of Republicans and more than 40% of the total population, this is not a red line and they will still vote for him.

> I don't know about this. For those of you who don't have a lot of Republicans on your timeline, even a lot of former Trump supporters are turning and saying they refuse to vote for him, that he must resign.


I suppose we'll know for sure in a month.

Also, I guess that "majority of Republicans" is difficult to quantify and verify, so to phrase this differently: My guess is that Trump will get between 85 and 90% of the votes that Romney got. To me that would be the overwhelmingly large majority of Republicans.
posted by sour cream at 6:48 AM on October 8, 2016


Sunday night:

"Mr. Trump, the recent video released to the media has raised serious concerns regarding your views towards women. How would you respond to those who question your leadership qualities?"

"Benghazi!"
posted by davebush at 6:48 AM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


Donald Trump is surprisingly good at dancing the limbo.
posted by srboisvert at 6:50 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


There is a Trump branded tower going up in Vancouver - that is close to completion. Every bit of Trump signage is covered in tarp. The developers know that the signage will be attacked and defaced. The building was going up before the election - and what started out as mild irritation and confusion over the name, will turn into active disgust and anger. It's like a big stamp on our skyline that says "Yay Rape Culture". I can't tell you how fucking... jeez, i can't even find the words...

Anyone who votes for Trump - has got to admit to themselves that not only are they a racist and misogynist - but that they are willing to be complicit in rape and sexual assault. This is not just turning away and ignoring a crime going on right in front of you. This is you cheering and high fiving your buddies from the sideline as a woman is assaulted. It's absolutely sickening.
posted by helmutdog at 6:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [26 favorites]


In, Roundup From Republican Twitter,
@SenatorKirk (Mark Kirk, of Illinois) -@realDonaldTrump should drop out. @GOP should engage rules for emergency replacement.
Apparently in the middle of this insane nonsense, the Trump team sent out texts to supporters asking for debate advice on "What should Mr. Trump focus on?". Many - I don't know who originated this - are sending in, "He should focus on not grabbing them by the pussy."
@JonahNRO I'm now actively worried that @smod2016 will be so disgusted he'll just veer straight into the sun just to avoid getting any Earth on him.
Evan McMullin is of course making hay while the sun shines - telling people that there is no other viable Republican candidate except him. I'm honestly somewhat disgusted he is not also calling for Trump to withdraw from the ticket or be replaced - kind of naked self interest, which is against the Noble Look he's trying to go for.

There's also some rumours going around - no clue how serious - that Pence and his wife are beyond livid and he is investigating resigning from the ticket.
posted by corb at 6:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [35 favorites]


The VIne of Ana Navarro's CNN co-panelists reacting to her first use of "pussy" is pretty amazing. Embedded in this tweet from Seth Abramovitch. Fair warning: put down your coffee and finish your current mouthful first.
posted by spitbull at 6:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [46 favorites]


Donnie's tactic of pivoting to an attack on Clinton works great in the echo chambers of his rallies and r/T..._D..., but when Clinton is sitting there staring at you, and has a chance for rebuttal, not so much.
posted by mikelieman at 6:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]



This does not explain how my TV turned on though.


[tech aside - some TVs can be turned on through the HDMI connector if a connected device sends them the right signal. Or it could be evil goblins.]
posted by Devonian at 6:53 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


It's grotesque that suddenly republicans are shocked enough to make noises about repudiating Trump when we've known this was what he was all along. The only difference is that now it's on video.

So they were fine with it when there wasn't video evidence, but now it can't be dismissed it's appalling. Moral bankruptcy.
posted by winna at 6:54 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]


So those of you who still have roots and/or ties to the evangelical/born again Christians, if Trump were to do one of those big teary tv evangelist apologies and then do a come to jesus, beg for forgiveness stunt would that work in regards to your family/friends?

My read is that some people would actually see it for what it is and reject him but a sizable percentage would eat that up. Because fundamentally people seem to like a redemption story and a big part of the theology is about being saved when you accept Jesus.

But do Evangelicals have differing standards, i.e is behavior that in theory Jesus can forgive actually forgivable to voter? Or would it actually disqualify him for President in their minds?
posted by vuron at 6:54 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Pence is really screwed by this. He obviously saw this as setup for his 2020 run, and Donnie has just blown any advantage he thought he was giving himself in that regard. Resigning from the ticket might be one way to save himself, but that leaves the GOP nobody but Trump. I don't think there is any way they can get new blood on the ticket, certainly not in all 50 states and most likely not in any of them at this point. And I don't think a write-in campaign would ever work at a national level.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


I feel for Hillary having to debate this creature on Sunday.

Oh I dunno, I hope she uses that line from the SNL cold open:

--How do you feel about that, Senator?

--I feel like I'm going to be president.
posted by chavenet at 6:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [36 favorites]


some TVs can be turned on through the HDMI connector if a connected device sends them the right signaL

Ok, Alex, what is "things Bill Gates might be caught saying on a hot mic and be misconstrued?"
posted by spitbull at 6:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [29 favorites]


It's fascinating seeing which media orgs have quoted the video verbatim and which have interspersed asterisks, dashes, etc.

What I find more telling is the framing. The media who are merely calling it "lewd" vs. those who are calling it "sexual assault". Because the former are perpetuating the environment that lets men get away with that kind of behavior.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [53 favorites]


People are talking - people who weren't talking before - about staying home if he is the nominee. And that's good news. That's really great news. What he did to women is terrible, but the fact that people are disgusted by it, all around, is one of the things that's really giving me hope right now

It's encouraging, and if they stay home it'll be bad for down-ticket stuff, but honestly I think that's mostly rhetoric and what many will do is vote Johnson or vote Trump and never ever admit it.

What I find really disturbing is that voting for the candidate best equipped to stop him, the one with a lifetime of public service who has extended her hand to these republican voters despite a quarter century of abuse, the —hey, while we're all disgusted about misogyny—actual woman candidate, is flat-out not an option for them.

So I feel you, but I have a hard time giving out high fives about this or believing that principle is overriding party loyalty here.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]


[tech aside - some TVs can be turned on through the HDMI connector if a connected device sends them the right signal. Or it could be evil goblins.]

:D Well I have to assume it's something like that but it sure was it creepy.
posted by Jalliah at 6:56 AM on October 8, 2016


Pence is really screwed by this. He obviously saw this as setup for his 2020 run, and Donnie has just blown any advantage he thought he was giving himself in that regard. Resigning from the ticket might be one way to save himself, but that leaves the GOP nobody but Trump. I don't think there is any way they can get new blood on the ticket, certainly not in all 50 states and most likely not in any of them at this point. And I don't think a write-in campaign would ever work at a national level.

"Please welcome your new Republican Vice Presidential candidate, Paul Manafort!"
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Is Donald Trump the High Plains Drifter of US Politics?
posted by ph00dz at 6:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Look folks, I know Trump should have been disqualified and rejected for being a creep from the get-go, but here's the thing: He was, right away, by the majority of people. He's the most disliked major-party candidate since polling began. In a GOP year against a widely disliked candidate, he has been losing consistently.

There is a big red "reject" button the public can hit: It's in the voting booth. In the meantime, there is nothing the majority of voters can do except say: "We can't stand that guy." And that's what most of them in fact say.

And yes, the reports of Trump's behavior should have been taken seriously, of course. But we all know, or can imagine, what we would do with secondhand, printed reports about a candidate we're trying to like: We'd dismiss them. This tape has Donald Trump's face and voice and unequivocal expressions of predatory behavior, with laughter added.

That is how political scandals work. You need the tape, the direct evidence, the physical experience of the candidate saying it and doing it.

The response to Donald Trump has not been shockingly wrong overall. This is what a correctly-functioning country looks like (but Republicans have some explaining to do).
posted by argybarg at 6:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]


"Please welcome your new Republican Vice Presidential candidate, Paul Manafort!"

I hear Roger Ailes is looking for work.
posted by jferg at 6:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


this entire election cycle His attempts at apologies are is surreal.
posted by Fizz at 6:59 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


This whole thing sort of reminds me of the Seinfeld where jerry's love interest gets him to talk dirty and he busts out, "You mean the panties your mother laid out for you?" The GOP base has been enthralled with Trump talking dirty to them, but this particular line is just a biiiiiiiiit too sketchy and bizarre.
posted by codacorolla at 6:59 AM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]


I don't think the Republicans need to get a new name on the ballot. We aren't voting for the name on the ballot. We are voting for the elector who goes to the electoral college meeting in December and votes for the person represented by the name on the ballot. Trump's name can be on the ballot but they can cast the vote for Pence, or Rubio, or whoever may get conned into taking one for the team.

Now, I can't imagine how they explain that to people that have only a vague sense of how voting works in the first place.
posted by COD at 7:00 AM on October 8, 2016


yes I said yes I will Yes: How are people shocked by this? This is exactly how I imagined he behaved in private.

at by: Evidence is better than speculation.

Exactly - until you have someone on record, at length, saying something, they and their supporters can say "you had to be there, it wasn't that bad," or "this is all taken out of context," or "he was just joking around."

But there is no joking. There is no humor. This is serious, and that's why there are serious repercussions now instead of earlier.

For any supporters who say he's apologized, he hasn't. The first time was "I'm sorry if you are a wimp and were hurt by my words" (paraphrased), the video was "I'm sorry about things I said" and he never addressed those things, or apologized to the recipient of those words, and then he pivoted to attack Hillary and Bill Clinton.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


There's also some rumours going around - no clue how serious - that Pence and his wife are beyond livid and he is investigating resigning from the ticket.

Sorry buddy, you hitched your wagon to this guy, and now that he's flown to close to the sun, you deserve to go down with the ship.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [44 favorites]


Well, Bill Clinton issued a long, tearful apology, and all was forgiven, right?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:02 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


It's hard not to see the Trump-Clinton election as manifestation of Feminism vs Misogyny/Patriarchy, of acceptance and/or celebration of diversity vs racism/religious prejudice, etc.

It's like there are two humans on the ballot but those humans are fundamentally stand-ins for much bigger, much more potent forces struggling to shape the future of our nation.

It's actually pretty amazing and honestly I'm pretty damned happy to have Hillary be the personification of values that I hold near and dear to my heart. I'm also saddened that the forces of conservatism have chosen such a crappy champion but one who also best personifies the negative aspects of conservatism and patriarchy.
posted by vuron at 7:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [42 favorites]


Trump's name can be on the ballot but they can cast the vote for Pence, or Rubio, or whoever may get conned into taking one for the team.

If they try that their own base will stay home and they won't get 100 EV's to cast for their write-in.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:06 AM on October 8, 2016


if Trump were to do one of those big teary tv evangelist apologies and then do a come to jesus, beg for forgiveness stunt would that work in regards to your family/friends?

This is so completely the opposite of who Trump is and beyond what he is capable of, what is the point of gameplanning for it? Republicans have been engaged in the same kind of magical thinking for 18 months now. He is a 70 year old man with a personality disorder and he is not going to suddenly become something he is not. He is not going to apologize sincerely. He certainly isn't going to cry. And he certainly isn't going to let some dumb preacher get the one-up on him.

I said this about six months in one of these big threads, but one thing this election is likely to do is destroy Trump's reputation, name, and brand. Predictions that he will have wished he never ran for President are looking prescient, and I am now happily imagining his children pacing anxiously, watching as the business they had hoped to inheritance crumbles beneath them. He will lose the election and he will be toxic. Much of the income of his businesses comes from the licensing of his name -- when that name is garbage, those businesses will fail.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:06 AM on October 8, 2016 [52 favorites]


Saw this joke the other day...

A guy looking for a fight walks into a biker bar and shouts, "Donald Trump is an asshole."

The biggest guys in the bar gets in his face and warns him, "You better watch what you say around here."

"Why? Are you a Trump supporter?"

"No, I'm an asshole."


Via Slate: "Said Trump to the Post: “This was locker room banter, a private conversation that took place many years ago. Bill Clinton has said far worse to me on the golf course—not even close. I apologize if anyone was offended.”"

The guy is playing golf with Bill Fucking Clinton!

Anyone want to lay some odds on who will win?
posted by marienbad at 7:08 AM on October 8, 2016 [33 favorites]


For any supporters who say he's apologized, he hasn't. The first time was "I'm sorry if you are a wimp and were hurt by my words" (paraphrased), the video was "I'm sorry about things I said" and he never addressed those things, or apologized to the recipient of those words, and then he pivoted to attack Hillary and Bill Clinton.

I think that last point bears repeating: The "apology" video was remarkable, but not so much for the lack of enthusiasm or the unsurprising attack an the Clintons, but rather for all the things that he didn't say.

He didn't say, "I never raped a woman."
He didn't say, "I never touched a woman's genitalia against her will."
He didn't say, "I never kissed a woman against her will."

He just apologized for the words he used, but he didn't deny doing any of those things that he boasted about. I also think that is a point that should be pressed in future interviews.
posted by sour cream at 7:08 AM on October 8, 2016 [85 favorites]


If I ever wanted to make a lot of money dishonestly, all I'd need would be a database of the Trump for President contributors. A basket of suckers.

Not to spit in the schadenfreude pie, but this has probably been Trump's plan from the start (notwithstanding his diversion into actually trying to win the thing, once it seemed possible that he could), and there's no particular reason to believe that he couldn't still. His model in this is, of all people, Sarah Palin, who, even though she not only did irreparable damage to her own reputation as a politician, not to mention put a stake through the heart of McCain's campaign, turned her enduring support from a chunk of the GOP electorate who related to her smug ignorance and relentless Obama-baiting into a tidy post-elected-office career; if anything, her alienation from the political mainstream helped cement their loyalty (although that may be fading, finally). Sadly, he will probably find a way to monetize this pose-election while the rest of the country is still feeling relief from having dodged that bullet.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


if Trump were to do one of those big teary tv evangelist apologies and then do a come to jesus, beg for forgiveness stunt would that work in regards to your family/friends?

Robert Duvall's character from the Apostle could baptise Trump in the Mississippi in front of millions and he still wouldn't be able to make it seem sincere and heartfelt. He's heartless. He can't pull off the connecting-with-other-human-beings thing because he doesn't connect with them.
posted by dis_integration at 7:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


I agree that Trump would be exceedingly unlikely to stage such a stunt since he's a complete asshole with no sense of morality but a fundamental need to look like the "Alpha" so while it might regain him some voters it would also probably cost him among his Alt-Right "anti-cuckservative" /pol/bro fanbase.
posted by vuron at 7:10 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


And just after I wrote that comment, I see this in my Twitter feed: Fashion blogger @CapHillStyle bans Ivanka Trump clothing on her site per her Insta, "will not support misogyny"

Good riddance to all you Trumps.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:10 AM on October 8, 2016 [43 favorites]


More gems:
@Dailytakes It's not because I am a father and a husband that I am repulsed by Trump. Nor because I'm a GOPer. I am repulsed by Trump because I am human
@iowahawkblog "I'd tap that" is locker room banter. "I grab em by the p***y and they can't do anything cuz I'm famous" is a psychopath's confession.
@HeerJeet TRUMP: I love the taste of human flesh. My presidency will be a cannibal orgy.
PAUL RYAN. I hope he apologizes. I still endorse him.
More Republican legislators calling for Trump to drop out include Martha Roby, of Alabama, and Barbara Comstock, of Virginia.

The thing that I'm seeing that is honestly astonishing - Republicans are so angry about this that they're retweeting the New York Times and Huffington Post, if those outlets have stories about this and the conservative outlets don't. That....never happens. I have never, ever seen that. It's frankly encouraging!
posted by corb at 7:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [96 favorites]


Enjoy the delicious schadenfreude while it's plentiful and cheap, but these woods are deep and dark and we are not out of them yet.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 7:12 AM on October 8, 2016 [53 favorites]


And for them as don't know, CapHillStyle is not just an excruciatingly dull DC style blogger, she's a Republican one.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:12 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


I don't think the Republicans need to get a new name on the ballot. We aren't voting for the name on the ballot. We are voting for the elector who goes to the electoral college meeting in December and votes for the person represented by the name on the ballot. Trump's name can be on the ballot but they can cast the vote for Pence, or Rubio, or whoever may get conned into taking one for the team.
This has been discussed in a lot of detail in various threads here, and the upshot seems to be that it's not that easy. Many states have laws that say that the electors have to vote for the name on the ballot, and they include several states that the Republicans would need to win. It's not clear how enforceable those laws are, and there would be a lot of litigation, which would eventually make its way to the Supreme Court, which is currently down a justice and at a high chance for 4-4 deadlock. I am fully willing to believe that some Republicans would be willing to risk this, because they're chaotic evil and that's how they roll, but it seems like a very difficult path to the presidency.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:14 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


if Trump were to do one of those big teary tv evangelist apologies and then do a come to jesus, beg for forgiveness stunt would that work in regards to your family/friends?

This scene has been playing off in my head for almost half an hour now. I can just imagine his team and handlers trying to convince him to do this and the various ways they'd have to try to make it appeal to his ego. It wouldn't happen, Trump has shown all of his acting abilities and that sort of thing is not on the cards. If he did it he'd be smirking the entire time, make comments about how hokey the whole thing was, he wouldn't be able to commit to looking that weak and vulnerable. That sort of thing works when the audience gets to see what they believe is genuine remorse and Trump can't even manage anything remotely close to something like that.

Everything about it would be playing up to the image of the "loser" that he's dressed his rivals all up in. It's not alpha or manly or strong. But in that sense I'd maybe love to see him do it because the contortions that the_donald and 4chan would have to go through to defend their projection of him would be totally worth it.
posted by Neronomius at 7:14 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Corb - personally I would be shocked if there was a serious attempt made to remove Trump from the ticket, because there just plain isn't time for it. Thousands of people have already voted for him. Ballots in most states can't be reprinted. And, most pressingly, Trump's base would see it as a blatantly undemocratic removal of the fairly elected candidate AND THEY WOULD BE RIGHT.

Even if you interpret Rule 9 very loosely, even if they somehow kick him off and somehow agree on a replacement with just a month until the election, do you think Trump and his supporters will just shrug that off? Better to let him lose spectacularly, and then say "see? We can't let this happen again!"

You reap what you sow. The party made its choice months ago and now they have to choke on it. Hopefully it teaches them a hard lesson.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [40 favorites]


this has probably been Trump's plan from the start

Never assume Trump has a plan. He just moves from one instantaneous ego gratification to the next. There is no brilliant, evil scheme — there's just the roving garbage pile of pathologies.
posted by argybarg at 7:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [79 favorites]


Roby is the only GOP Rep to pull an endorsement who's not from Utah or from a close race. (Sasse never endorsed Trump.)

In terms of giving out cookies: in the scheme of things, of course not a single one of these people deserves a cookie for pulling endorsements at this point. But I do think we should encourage these people to do the right thing at last (Pence included - drop out and leave the Cheeto standing alone, buddy). I'll throw them a shitty, stale cookie for that.
posted by sallybrown at 7:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


Enjoy the delicious schadenfreude while it's plentiful and cheap, but these woods are deep and dark and we are not out of them yet.

This is a good point and I hesitate to say "this election is over" but really, this election is starting to enter "yeah it is kind of over" territory. Why different this time? Because people are already voting in lots of states. This is going to get people to the polls this week to cast votes for Clinton. I don't know how many people are going to be rushing to vote for Trump. Also, this election has gone on forever and it seems like there will be another 6 or 7 twists or turns, but that's going to be hard since there are only four weeks left. Seriously! This election is getting close to wrapping up. Finally, the reason why I think this is truly danged over and done with is because there are whispers of more and more of this stuff -- old Apprentice tapes, more Access Hollywood footage. If something damaging about Hillary comes out, they'll just drop a new Donald tape. It's over.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


> Pence is really screwed by this. He obviously saw this as setup for his 2020 run, and Donnie has just blown any advantage he thought he was giving himself in that regard. Resigning from the ticket might be one way to save himself, but that leaves the GOP nobody but Trump.

I imagine David Duke would still pick up the phone if Trump called.
posted by at by at 7:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


>if Trump were to do one of those big teary tv evangelist apologies and then do a come to jesus, beg for forgiveness stunt

I don't think he could do it if his life depended on it. To apologize is to humble yourself. I don't think he's capable of it, I don't think his personality has the range to hit those notes, and if he COULD do it I think it would destroy him in the eyes of many of his followers who only admire him for his unapologetic authoritarian nature.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 7:18 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


The party made its choice months ago and now they have to choke on it.

It's not just about the party. If he doesn't suffer immediate, clear consequences for this, it will give license to others to think that this behavior is "not that bad". Defeat at the ballot box is not enough, people will tell themselves that Hillary was always going to win, etc. Trump needs to be removed now, and he needs to be removed specifically for this. Anyone who admits that they sexually assault women, but it's okay because they're asking for it anyway, they need to be hounded off whatever stage they're on, be it only running for dog catcher.
posted by corb at 7:19 AM on October 8, 2016 [70 favorites]


Pence is really screwed by this. He obviously saw this as setup for his 2020 run, and Donnie has just blown any advantage he thought he was giving himself in that regard.

Judging by the last debate I don't get the impression Pence knows anything of Trump. He barely seems to realize Trump is running for President, much less the facts and truth of any of Trump's garbage.
posted by Karaage at 7:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


Another problem with deTrumping the ticket is that the GOP already has a huge downballot problem if too many of their flock stay home in disgust. If they deTrump the ticket, in addition to the already disgusted and pissed off people who will still be disgusted and pissed off, they will enrage the alt-right base that put Trump on the ticket in the first place, and if they stay home too then the downballot situation is even worse. I'm sure they will calculate that it's better to keep bailing with what they have than risk overturning the ship completely.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Attempts to remove him from the ballot or come up with some other wacky scheme for a Trump alternative not only would not work but they will just reinforce the message that the GOP Does Not Have Its Shit Together. Best move for the GOP at this point is to quietly (haha) shift 100% of its resources to downticket races, tell its members that they should feel free to do whatever they like, and try and build something anew for the 2018 midterms.
posted by MoonOrb at 7:21 AM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


Trump being removed would mitigate the consequences for the GOP. The Party needs their noses rubbed long and hard in what they've done.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


...And my last conservative evangelical Christian friend just posted a strong and impassioned "Dump Trump" message on facebook.
posted by snickerdoodle at 7:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]


In a better possible world than this, every Republican who is experiencing buyer's remorse would cross party lines, and vote the straight Democratic ticket to show the GOP that they done fucked up, and they aren't getting a pass on it.

In a better possible world than this.
posted by mikelieman at 7:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


>In terms of giving out cookies:

The INITIAL Republican reaction to Trump was shame and horror, but in no time they came around because HE LOOKED LIKE HE COULD WIN. Nobody thought, even from the beginning, that he was anything but what he is; it was just deemed acceptable because he could win. People who are cutting ties now aren't "doing the right thing", they're just not gonna bet on a loser, and don't want the loser cooties to get on them.

For my money they can have the kinda cookies that horses leave in the street.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 7:23 AM on October 8, 2016 [53 favorites]


Yes, this.
And don't call me Shirley.
posted by brevator at 7:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


Judging by the last debate I don't get the impression Pence knows anything of Trump.

Oh I'm sure Pence knew enough about Trump to realize the risk he was taking, not that he will necessarily admit to knowing any of it. Trump is a pretty bright meteor and hard to miss. What Pence knew that was important was that Trump won the nomination and they were having a bit of a problem finding a running mate, and he probably agreed with the consensus that Trump was not necessarily going to be able to win but figured he could get some exposure out of the run. And unfortunately he has.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I agree, corb, with your basic point: There needs to be an unequivocal consequence. But the legal boundaries basically proscribe removing Trump, even as a protest gesture. We should all take voter disenfranchisement seriously; what about the people who have already voted for Donald Trump in early voting?

There needs to be a clear, singular, no-going-back mass withdrawal of endorsements: At one press conference, with no escape clause, and 30+ major party figures present. But, c'mon.
posted by argybarg at 7:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


@daveweigel: Sen. Roy Blunt tells me he'll still vote for Trump, and it's "unrealistic" to ask that he quit the race to be replaced.

FYI, Blunt is in a very tight re-election race right now. His opponent, current Missouri Secretary of State Jason Kander, is a Jewish military veteran with 100% ratings from NARAL and Planned Parenthood. He's not perfect, but he's light-years ahead of grade-A shitstain Blunt. If you haven't already, now's a good time to donate.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [36 favorites]


So those of you who still have roots and/or ties to the evangelical/born again Christians, if Trump were to do one of those big teary tv evangelist apologies and then do a come to jesus, beg for forgiveness stunt would that work in regards to your family/friends?

My read is that some people would actually see it for what it is and reject him but a sizable percentage would eat that up. Because fundamentally people seem to like a redemption story and a big part of the theology is about being saved when you accept Jesus.


I was thinking about this thing a few days ago, actually--that all he's missing is a big conversion moment where he bigly accepts Jesus Christ as his personal savior, in of course the most public and ostentatious way, and then he'll be locked in solid with the evangelicals forevermore. Yet another in a long line of creepy-ass molesters who get away with it, and gain approval besides.
posted by Sublimity at 7:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


I wouldn't go as far as to say that Trump can't win, or even that he's unlikely to win. American party politics is tribal, and some 45% of the electorate will vote for the Republican candidate no matter who he is; the party could run some backwoods-American equivalent of General Butt Naked, and people would still rally behind him, because He's Our Guy and against the Liberals who want to destroy faith, family, Christmas, motherhood and apple pie. And that goes double for when the Democrat is Hillary Clinton, a woman who doesn't know her traditionally-ordained place and thus represents every threatening social change.

The biggest threat is that people will think that there's no way that Trump can win now, and will stay home on election day, or allow bad weather/voter-suppression laws to put them off. Meanwhile, the megachurches will round up their voters in minibuses, and the angry white guys of small towns and Reddit forums will still see it as their chance of giving the liberal elites a kicking, and will jump for it, and prevail.
posted by acb at 7:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


...And my last conservative evangelical Christian friend just posted a strong and impassioned "Dump Trump" message on facebook.

For or against?
posted by drezdn at 7:25 AM on October 8, 2016


It's not just about the party. If he doesn't suffer immediate, clear consequences for this, it will give license to others to think that this behavior is "not that bad".

From my perspective, that ship has so thoroughly sailed that it's in Valinor.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:26 AM on October 8, 2016 [51 favorites]


A moment's thought: Friday night is when newsmakers issue the press releases they're obligated to which make them look bad, because it gets buried by sports and entertainment news, and public reaction withers away before the next weekday news cycle.

Imagine what the public reaction would have been if this had come out earlier in the week.
posted by at by at 7:26 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


I honestly can't believe that Hillary has to stand on the same stage as this guy and debate him. I feel like the Republicans are just trying to see if she'll fuck a pig.
posted by brevator at 7:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Locker Room Talk.

OK, admittedly, I haven't been in a Locker Room three times in the last decade. Those times, I was mainly concerned with showering and getting dressed quickly in a situation where I was uncomfortable with public-ish nudity. I think most of the guys around me were doing the same.

I don't know what Locker Rooms this alleged Locker Room Talk goes on in, but it wasn't Gold's Gym, based on my obviously limited experience.

What's in that tape is not Locker Room Talk. It's Male Dominated Workplace Talk. I've heard similar talk in the workplace. In the office. Around conference tables. In situations where I had to be locking my eyes on my laptop screen, pointedly ignoring the person saying it, wishing desperately that they were not in a position of authority over me in the workplace. "Oh, what, I wasn't listening..." was my weak response, trying not to sound too frightened, trying to balance toxic Boys Will Be Boys bullshit with keeping my job.

These guys weren't in a Locker Room. They were in The Workplace. At a TV studio in a TV studio bus with live mics. Donald Trump: Media Genius and Billy Bush: TV Professional didn't think there might be a live mic? Really? Whatevs. They knew he could talk "like that" because no man ever had any consequences ever for doing so. Men "like that" don't even know talking "like that" is a thing. Like the fish said, What the fuck is "water?"

Maybe this will be what pulls the drain-plug.
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [134 favorites]




at by, there's a big difference: the debate is tomorrow and this is still fresh.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:28 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Character Is Destiny: If you can see that, but still think Hillary Clinton would be worse. Fine. Just be prepared for an endless stream of more embarrassments in your name. And, for my friends in the media and in politics, if you minimize, dismiss or celebrate his grotesqueness out of partisan zeal, just keep in mind that some people, including your children, might think you mean it. Or, they might know you don’t mean it. Which means they now know you lie for a living.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:29 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


There is no way this isn't going to get brought up in the debate. It would be insane for her not to.
posted by corb at 7:29 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


You could say he's now a very large pubic hair on the GOP Coke can.
posted by davebush at 7:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]


In a larger sense, though, I personally suspect that the meteoric rise of the Internet over the past decade has fundamentally changed the whole "news cycle" to the point where conventional wisdom on the best time to release a thing is no longer relevant.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Speaking of the debate, I wonder how many of those "undecided voters" they carefully picked for the town hall audience will still be undecided now.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]


Imagine what the public reaction would have been if this had come out earlier in the week.


Is there really going to be someone who doesn't hear about "grab them in the pussy" because it came out on a Friday?
posted by argybarg at 7:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]




People in the UK have been making the comparison with Jimmy Savile and I can certainly see why. Factor in also the revelations which have just come out about the scale of sexual harassment and assault of students on university campuses here. There's a screwed up culture of celebrity in hierarchical organisations like the media and universities, where so many of the powerful are men and those at the bottom of the hierarchy are young women. I've heard plenty of "gossip" along the lines of, "oh [well-known academic]. Yes, [x university] have now stopped him supervising female MA students, because he can't be trusted to be in the same room as them without another member of staff being present, haha." And that's it; it's just treated as salacious gossip, not evidence of actual criminal behaviour. I suspect it's the same in the film and TV industries. Of course, we are all scrupulously liberal in our personal politics.
posted by Sonny Jim at 7:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Kellyanne! I and the rest of the American people demand you give Donald back his phone right now!
posted by sourwookie at 7:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


The thing about the Friday news dump is that the story has to also quickly die. If the story is still hanging around on Saturday it didn't work.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


Is there really going to be someone who doesn't hear about "grab them in the pussy" because it came out on a Friday?

The story also broke about 4pm Eastern/1pm Pacific, as most people were still at work before the long weekend. Everyone saw the video.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:34 AM on October 8, 2016


"These guys weren't in a Locker Room."

Maybe SJW's wouldn't get so much pushback about "Safe Spaces" if they starting calling them "Locker Rooms".
posted by klarck at 7:34 AM on October 8, 2016 [50 favorites]


I'm disgustedly certain there's a fairly high number of Trump supporters who listened to this (I'm thinking reading the transcript would be a little past them) and grinned, thinking "Damn right."

At this point a Trump sticker/sign/vote is reason for me to dismiss you from humanity.
posted by Mooski at 7:34 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


his rallies and r/T..._D...

("r/T..._D..."?)

posted by nebulawindphone at 7:35 AM on October 8, 2016


It's getting to where I'm not scared to look at fivethirtyeight any more!
posted by Anne Neville at 7:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]


538's banner forecast is now at 90% for Hillary.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


Right now, I see Trump as a reminder that there are no background checks on the powerful. That the party system is not robust when confronted with threats outside the context of previous elections. That the GOP, and perhaps the Democrats too but we haven't had that test recently and hopefully never will, is willing to run with fascism (and a rise in hate crimes that is a real and continuing event) for an electoral victory.

What a shitty year.
posted by Slackermagee at 7:38 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


So, I bought a huge thing of tic-tacs for my office yesterday.

Damn if that doesn't look awful now.
posted by schmod at 7:38 AM on October 8, 2016 [34 favorites]


According to CBS, here's the early voting timetable:

Already voting: Idaho, Minnesota, South Dakota, Vermont, Maine, Maryland, New Jersey, Illinois, Iowa, North Dakota, Wyoming

10/10/16 California, Nebraska

10/11/16 Montana, New Mexico, Utah

10/12/16 Arizona, Indiana, Ohio

10/17/16 Georgia

10/19/16 Kansas, Tennessee

10/20/16 North Carolina

10/21/16 Washington

10/22/16 Nevada

10/24/16 Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Texas, Wisconsin

10/25/16 Hawaii, Louisiana

10/26/16 West Virginia

10/28/16 Massachusetts

10/29/16 Florida

10/30/16 District of Columbia

11/3/16 Oklahoma
posted by sallybrown at 7:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


Altoids execs are stoked this morning.
posted by winna at 7:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]


("r/T..._D..."?) => https://reddit.com/r/The_Donald I imagine
posted by pharm at 7:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


We must stand up for our tic tacs, we cannot let them go down with the ship.
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 7:40 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Gabriel Sherman (twitter): hear Trump huddled in meeting at Trump Tower w/ Rudy, Newt and Jeff Sessions. Source: Sessions arguing Trump should consider dropping out
posted by sallybrown at 7:40 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Has anyone posted Robert de Niro on Trump yet? It's exciting.
posted by argybarg at 7:41 AM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]


Early voting has already started in Wisconsin.
posted by drezdn at 7:41 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


A moment's thought: Friday night is when newsmakers issue the press releases they're obligated to which make them look bad, because it gets buried by sports and entertainment news, and public reaction withers away before the next weekday news cycle.

Imagine what the public reaction would have been if this had come out earlier in the week.


I assume the release was timed to give a few days for it to fester and boil and spread before the debate, and with too little time for Trump and his campaign to regain their composure.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:41 AM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]


What's in that tape is not Locker Room Talk. It's Male Dominated Workplace Talk.

It's every space where men think they have impunity, public or private.
posted by holgate at 7:41 AM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]


Joy Reid is interviewing Evangelical leaders right now on MSNBC, who are "trying to put this video into context."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Is there really going to be someone who doesn't hear about "grab them in the pussy" because it came out on a Friday?

I live in Jacksonville, Florida and was in the middle of a hurricane yesterday, and even I heard it.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 7:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [69 favorites]


It's not just about the party. If he doesn't suffer immediate, clear consequences for this, it will give license to others to think that this behavior is "not that bad". Defeat at the ballot box is not enough, people will tell themselves that Hillary was always going to win, etc. Trump needs to be removed now, and he needs to be removed specifically for this. Anyone who admits that they sexually assault women, but it's okay because they're asking for it anyway, they need to be hounded off whatever stage they're on, be it only running for dog catcher.

I feel with you, corb, but it's not going to happen. And the majority of Republicans are going to be OK with it not going to happen and will be voting for him. And it will go like this:

Stage 1: Outrage until Sunday.
Stage 2: Debate will dominate the news for a few days. Talking heads will discuss some stupid thing that Trump (or Hillary) said. 538 reports Trump popular vote at record low of 38%.
Stage 3: Rehashing of Bill's infidelities. Talking heads conclude they were worse, because he was already in elected office and didn't just talk.
Stage 4: More emails / Benghazi.
Stage 5: More stupidity by Trump camp dominating the news.
Stage 6: Talking heads are all like "Lewd remarks were 10 years ago, Benghazi/emails is NOW!"
Stage 7: Talking heads reach the conclusion: All things considered, both sides are equally bad.
Stage 8: Trump support creeps back to >40%.
posted by sour cream at 7:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [17 favorites]




Trump reps right now on CNN:

Jack Kingston blaming Trump's comments on "Hollywood culture." He was a "different man" twelve years ago.

Scottie Nells Hughes ignores question about comments entirely and talks about ambushed cops, bombs in US cities, etc. Straight-up fear mongering.
posted by zakur at 7:44 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


It used to be the same in the media in the UK - everyone knew that celeb/big chief X was an octopus or worse, and you make sure if you were in his target demographic you took care. And some very serious sexual predation was condoned by default.

But since Savile (and before, although not so obviously) this has changed. The dynamic now, which may well play out with Trump, is that old stuff comes out quickly once the dam breaks - people who were too scared to talk, or were dismissed for various reasons, speak out and get heard.

Gonna be an interesting few weeks...
posted by Devonian at 7:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


I'm sympathetic to the conservatives like corb who have been trying to fight the good fight and save the patient from the cancer that is eating it from within but fundamentally at this point in time any attempt to dump Trump is about minimizing the negative impact of Trump on down-ballot contests.

But the truth of the matter is that Trump does represent the modern Republican party. Sure it's the shadow aspect of the Republican party that most people try to sweep under the rug but to deny that there is a very real percentage of the Republican party that doesn't fundamentally support Trump and the things that he's saying is a lie.

The faux outrage from Republicans who had previously endorsed him previously because it was a political requirement are also the ones hand-wringing in public now that Trump is completely radioactive. They want him gone not because what he's said is deplorable because he's been saying completely shitty things since he got into the race but because he's threatening their power.

Until the Republican party actually does battle with the deplorable elements in their own ranks I really can't see how they are going to recover. The rot has set in too deep. Trying to paper over the cracks with a "Wow New Presidential Nominee!" and a "Please forget the last 18 months" is simply not going to work.

The Republican party has been playing with fire for decades and it's going to get burnt and burnt badly. It will survive but yeah it needs to be punished for the shitty choices it's made.
posted by vuron at 7:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [42 favorites]


>Has anyone posted Robert de Niro on Trump yet?

MUTT WHO DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT/PENCE 2016

Get your bumper stickers before they're gone!
posted by Sing Or Swim at 7:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Where will they find enough undecided voters to fill tomorrow's town hall debate?
posted by MoonOrb at 7:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]


The dynamic now, which may well play out with Trump, is that old stuff comes out quickly once the dam breaks - people who were too scared to talk, or were dismissed for various reasons, speak out and get heard.

See also: Bill Cosby
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]


One thing that occurs to me is that Trump wasn't wrong. He groped and forced himself on women and, because he's famous, got away with it. Or would have, if he hadn't run for president. Actually, he still will get away with it and will continue to after he loses.
posted by fungible at 7:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]




Trump wasn't wrong

This. The tone of Trump's comment to Billy is half bragging, but half advice. You can get away with it if you're a star, so live it up. Why hold back? If you can take it and nobody will stop you, it's yours. This was Trump giving his colleague the benefit of his no doubt by then extensive experience.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:49 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


NBC apparently also pulled video from The Apprentice for review after the AP article. God knows what's in there. It could be even worse. (twitter link)
posted by sallybrown at 7:49 AM on October 8, 2016


@realDonaldTrump: Certainly has been an interesting 24 hours! (real)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:50 AM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]


I'm hoping for a month full of October surprises, each more surprising than the last.

I'm not even sure how to parse this election anymore, like I don't think I'm capable.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 7:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


May you live in interesting times, @realDonaldTrump.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


How on earth has any media company that has ever filmed Trump for any reason NOT been digging through old tape since he's been the nominee? They don't even need principles to do it, just a desire for clicks and eyeballs. Interns come cheap too.
posted by neonrev at 7:54 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


@hughhewitt For the benefit of the country, the party and his family, and for his own good, @realDonaldTrump should withdraw. More and worse oppo coming
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:54 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Oh, I know that move. We're not going to laugh it off, Donald. This isn't your office and I don't depend on you for a paycheck.
posted by sallybrown at 7:54 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


Donald Trump is surprisingly good at dancing the limbo.

I blame you for the mental image haunting my brain now.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think all members of the Clinton campaign are spamming "my ultimate is ready" at each other right now.

Justice! Rains from above!
posted by argybarg at 7:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]


How much schadenfreude is safe to experience?

I feel like I just bought a four pack of double chocolate muffins and then ate them all and hid the container in the bottom of the recycling so my wife won't know the full extent of my shameful overindulgence.
posted by srboisvert at 7:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [48 favorites]


From Interface, the 1994 political sci-fi novel by Neal Stephenson and J. Frederick George:
In the 1700s, politics was all about the ideas. But Jefferson came up with all the good ideas. In the 1800s, it was all about character. But no one will ever have as much character as Lincoln and Lee. For much of the 1900s it was about charisma. But we no longer trust charisma because Hitler used it to kill Jews and JFK used it to get laid and send us to Vietnam.

Today, we are in the Age of Scrutiny. A public figure must withstand the scrutiny of the media. The President is the ultimate public figure and must stand up under ultimate scrutiny; he is like a man stretched out on a rack in the public square in some medieval shithole of a town, undergoing the rigors of the Inquisition. Like the medieval trial by ordeal, the Age of Scrutiny sneers at rational inquiry and debate, and presumes that mere oaths and protestations are deceptions and lies. The only way to discover the real truth is by the rite of the ordeal, which exposes the subject to such inhuman strain that any defect in his character will cause him to crack wide open, like a flawed diamond. It is a mystical procedure that skirts rationality, which is seen as the work of the Devil, instead drawing down a higher, ineffable power. Like the Roman haruspex who foretold the outcome of a battle, not by analyzing the strengths of the opposing forces but by groping through the steaming guts of a slaughtered ram, we seek to establish a candidate's fitness for office by pinning him under the lights of a television studio and counting the number of times he blinks his eyes in a minute, deconstructing his use of eye contact, monitoring his gesticulations--whether his hands are held open or closed, towards or away from the camera, spread open forthcomingly or clenched like grasping claws.
posted by mbrubeck at 7:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]


I got my Arizona absentee overseas ballot on the 22nd of Sept. I so voted yesterday. I'm pretty excited about AZ going blue in the 538 now-cast.
posted by Spumante at 7:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Already voting: Idaho, Minnesota, South Dakota, Vermont, Maine, Maryland, New Jersey, Illinois, Iowa, North Dakota, Wyoming

Also Virginia. We call it absentee but the reasons can include having to work or go to an appointment outside your voting county on Election Day, a required 11 hour work shift on Election Day, taking care of sick family, etc. About half the reasons don't even require follow-up answers/explanations. In person absentee started 8 days ago.
posted by phearlez at 7:59 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


What's in that tape is not Locker Room Talk. It's Male Dominated Workplace Talk.

It's every space where men think they have impunity, public or private.


I honestly can't favorite these enough.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


8. If the LGBTQ community wants to be a bit more inclusive, I don’t see why “polyamorous alpha male serial kisser” can’t be on the list. If you want to label Trump’s sexual behavior “abnormal” you’re on shaky ground.
I'm not going to link to him or even mention his name because I think most Mefites can probably guess just by the waffling and the fact that it's already point 8.
posted by Talez at 8:02 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]


How much do Republicans hate it that Barack Obama or HRC is President. They'd rather destroy the country.
posted by My Dad at 8:02 AM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: Certainly has been an interesting 24 hours! (real)

I think this is going to be the next few weeks. Donald 'standing strong' and just dismissing it all as story after a story and a whole pile of his shyte gets dumped into media.

Republicans will be baying, 'Please just quit, for the love of all that is holy' and dropping him one by one. The only question is which of them will sell out any piece of soul they have and stick with him to the end.

And Trump is just going to be all ' Nope. Fuck you my base lurvs me'. And he'll be right.

The true believers will act in desperation and trying dumping everything and everything onto Hillary. The only solace is that they dump and someone will dump some Trump something that takes the spotlight.

And I expect we're going to have some of his campaign people publicly bailing and hopefully spilling all sorts of campaign shit beans.

It's gonna be a shit show.
posted by Jalliah at 8:03 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm not going to link to him or even mention his name because I think most Mefites can probably guess just by the waffling and the fact that it's already point 8.

He's such a creep. "Oh, yeah, that apology was perfect." It's also amusing he's so thin-skinned he's getting into squabbles with commenters on Twitter.
posted by My Dad at 8:03 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


"How on earth has any media company that has ever filmed Trump for any reason NOT been digging through old tape since he's been the nominee? "

Sarah Kendzior ‏@sarahkendzior Think about Billy Bush's side of the conversation. Trump's had conversations like that with how many media people? He has dirt on them too.
posted by klarck at 8:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


So this is a bit off-topic, but I guess recently people, including Sam Wang, have been making fun of Nate Silver for this tweet.

I think this is somewhat unfair. That statement isn't vague, nonsensical, or equivocational — in fact, it means something fairly precise. He was saying that he gives Trump a 25% chance of winning, and that the remaining 75% probability is evenly distributed across the plausible range of victory margins for Clinton.

I'm not saying Nate Silver's methods are perfect. His model is sort of weirdly complex, with the pollster rankings and whatnot, and I'm not really qualified to compare it to (say) Sam Wang's methodology, which seems sound.

And when Silver has dipped into punditry, like he did when covering the Republican primary, it hasn't gone well.

But all the weird shit-flinging going around the world of psephology blogs is sort of baffling to me, and not really a good look for anybody involved.
posted by a mirror and an encyclopedia at 8:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


@hughhewitt For the benefit of the country, the party and his family, and for his own good, @realDonaldTrump should withdraw. More and worse oppo coming

Yeah there's no way that there isn't another tape with him saying things just as bad. Maybe with his face on the camera and his smug smile while he brags about forcing himself on women. He's so casual about it on the tape from last night that you know he's been saying this shit out loud for years, groping and kissing women who didn't want it, probably raping a few (it's amazing nobody from his college days has come forward!) and nobody stopped him or punished him in all his 70 years. This is probably literally the first time he's faced consequences for it. So you know there has to be worse shit on tape out there, just waiting to drop.
posted by dis_integration at 8:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


I recommend everyone watch Frontline's The Choice, concerning Trump and Clinton's background. According to military school chums, he idolized Hugh Hefner as an unloved and repressed teen. More to the point, at least one banker suggests from personal encounters that Trump doesn't seem to understand the basics of finance. It also exposed the fact that Trump is paid monthly to promote a failed real estate empire that avoided collapsing itself because the bankers wanted to keep his name on the buildings. Even today he doesn't own the buildings with his name on them, and on his original Trump Tower, he sold spaces with floor numbers ten stories higher than they really were.
posted by Brian B. at 8:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [22 favorites]


The talk about the GOP rising up and removing Trump as the nominee concerns me a bit - all it's going to take is for them to replace Trump with someone nominally palatable to the people who have a hate on for Hillary for this all to go pear shaped.
posted by Mooski at 8:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


I eagerly await the Trump camp to try and spin this as more liberal media persecution, some sort of political witch hunt.

The really sad thing is that he is going to do exactly that, and it will work.

Trump's supporters revel in the amount of distress the things he says causes to "the left" and "the politically correct" and "the SJWs".
posted by flabdablet at 8:06 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


I would be shocked if there was a serious attempt made to remove Trump from the ticket, because there just plain isn't time for it.

Trump has no shame, so I'm skeptical that he'll resign on his own and if the GOP couldn't get him off the ticket before, I'm even more skeptical of their chances of removing him now, at the worst possible moment. That said, I hope the talk continues for another three weeks or so.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:06 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]




In other Friday Trump news, a judge has decided that the child rape lawsuit against Trump has merit, and a hearing is scheduled for December. [real]
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:06 AM on October 8, 2016 [46 favorites]


I mean

On the upside it's been kind of nice seeing the American Evangelical movement demonstrate in no uncertain terms that, as a whole, they really just don't care that much deep down about any of that actual Jesus stuff in the Bible, given their remarkably consistent and vocal support for the one person who may have history's strongest claim to "literally the opposite of Jesus"
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:07 AM on October 8, 2016 [67 favorites]


he is going to do exactly that, and it will work.

Define "work."
posted by argybarg at 8:07 AM on October 8, 2016


Donald Trump Likely Made Lewd Comments While Melania Was Pregnant: The Republican nominee made the remarks about women that have plunged his presidential campaign into chaos while he was on his way to tape a cameo on the daytime soap opera “Days Of Our Lives” that would air on Oct. 24, 2005. She gave birth to their son Barron on Mar. 20, 2006.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


I mean, a lot of this shit has already come out. Months ago. This was known. For years.
posted by MoonOrb at 8:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [32 favorites]


Angus Johnston: "I'd like to hear just one Republican say he's disavowing Trump to set an example for his son."
posted by gwint at 8:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [155 favorites]


I'm trying to make a bullet point list of the many scandals that Donald J. Trump has been involved with and I cannot keep track, there are just too many of them. These are just a few from the last few weeks/months...

• Insult dead soldier and parents
• Brag about not paying taxes
• Espouse birther movement lies
• Insult beauty pageant contestant
• Deny innocence of Central Park Five
• Trump University
• Multiple rape accusations
• Using charity funds for personal expenses
• Implying that gun rights supporters should harm Hilary




posted by Fizz at 8:10 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


Mooski, all I can say is that I simply don't believe that. Think about Trump's base and ask yourself if they'd roll over (like a dog!) and accept a replacement candidate, AND that candidate would suck away 4 points from Clinton, in the space of what will be three weeks or less before the election, AND when many states simply won't allow new ballots at all.

It won't happen, and if it did, it would fail.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Fizz: encouraging Russia to hack US email
posted by MoonOrb at 8:13 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I left a few bullet points blank because we still have a month more of this shit to look forward to.

sighs
posted by Fizz at 8:14 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump's statement is an eerie replica of psychological manipulations made by abusers after episodes of abuse.

Let's break it down.

posted by My Dad at 8:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]


Here's hoping this tips the balance of power in Congress just enough that Hillary can really get some shit done. She'll certainly have tons of moral authority.
posted by wabbittwax at 8:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


Another thing that seems weird is that there was no woman working on that whole bus full of people? What was it? Eight people total working on this thing, and none of them were female?
posted by lauranesson at 8:16 AM on October 8, 2016




Another thing that seems weird is that there was no woman working on that whole bus full of people?

Nothing weird about it at all. People are really good at reading other people. You can usually sense evil/crazy after spending just a short period with someone. Considering his views on women, it's not surprising at all that many women do not want to be around someone as toxic as Mr. Trump.
posted by Fizz at 8:18 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


I would have loved to see Hillary beat a more serious opponent...

Such this, and this feeling is going to be awkward in December. I mean, I'll take it, of course, because yes, the alternative is, you know, living through the unimaginable.

But if you step back now, it's starting to look like like a schoolteacher beating up on a toddler. This is what we get for our historic election?

I can't stop revisiting those early-election thought experiments. If, as a Clinton supporter and/or Democrat, you could design the perfect, most damaged, easiest-to-beat opponent, who would you come up with?

I don't think back then we could even imagine any opponent as paper-thin and damaged as Trump. It's beyond a laugher. It's surreal.
posted by rokusan at 8:21 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


Even if the Republican party wanted to replace Trump and while there is probably some wishful thinking going on right now it seems pretty much impossible.

It's too late to change ballots, it's too late to clear all the no doubt massive legal hurdles, it's too late to come up with some sacrificial pawn who would no doubt lose by double digits.

Sometimes you just have to soldier on despite knowing that your course of action is utterly doomed. That's where the Republican Party is at this point.

Trump will be the nominee and Trump will defeated soundly on November 8th. Any dramatic attempts at disavowing him at this point are attempts to limit the damage. The Senate is almost certainly going to be under Democratic control but they'll continue to fight the good fight but the real firewall needs to be protecting control of the house and somehow protecting the party from itself.
posted by vuron at 8:21 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


I assume the release was timed to give a few days for it to fester and boil and spread before the debate, and with too little time for Trump and his campaign to regain their composure.

Given the way he missed his best opening to go after Clinton on Benghazi and emails at the first debate because he wanted to pivot to talk about his own taxes AGAIN, he's going to be an apoplectic mess on Sunday with this. Or else he's going to be seriously compromised by trying very very hard to not take any bait and fly into an apoplectic mess.

What I'm saying is that this timing is brilliant (thank you, whomever leaked it ahead of NBC's planned rollout) and I am literally going to be that GIF of Michael Jackson eating popcorn at the beginning of the Thriller video this Sunday evening in front of the television. It's the only way left to cope with this.
posted by blue suede stockings at 8:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I wouldn't be surprised if there were women there. They were just invisible to Trump if he didn't want to fuck them, and they kept quiet because their jobs depended on it.
posted by sallybrown at 8:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


all it's going to take is for them to replace Trump with someone nominally palatable...

It's much, much, much too late. They needed to do this months and months ago.

Relax. It's over, we're safe.
posted by rokusan at 8:23 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]




Just in case newspaper endorsements mean anything to anyone anymore, let's look at the latest count:
Hillary Clinton     : 43
NOBODY              : 7
Gary Johnson        : 6
"Not Donald Trump"  : 2
Donald Trump        : 0
Kind of wondering if Trump's count should be -2 when you add in the mind-boggling idea of a negative endorsement.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [60 favorites]


Look up the historical popular vote margins between the winner and runner-up in presidential elections.

If this shit keeps up, we could be looking at a 'historical election' in more ways than one.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Not because you have a sister.
Not because you have a mother.
Not because you have a daughter.

Because she's a person.


I'm glad that so many people are angered at Trump's admitted sexual assault tendencies, but the "We must protect our womenfolk" sentiments creep me out almost as much. It's like Romney and his ilk can't imagine women having any value outside of their relationships to men.

Also, Trump looks even more pathetic in this video because he basically admits that women aren't attracted to him for anything besides his fame. I mean, yeah obviously, but I would guess most men would at least lie, both to themselves and to other bros, and say that women liked something human about them - sex appeal, charm, seduction skills, awesome penile power. Even if it obviously wasn't true, admitting that there's nothing else attractive about you than your money is kind of pathetic - unless you're Trump, I guess, where the only true measure of a person is how famous you are.
posted by bibliowench at 8:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [43 favorites]


I would have loved to see Hillary beat a more serious opponent...

On the one hand, sure this victory is beneath her, not worthy of her.

On the other hand, there's such a perfect poetic justice that in order to become the first woman elected President of the United States, she has to defeat one of the most repugnant misogynists the world has ever seen. This election is the embodiment of Bill Clinton's old line about "nothing wrong with America that can't be fixed by what is right with America." Donald Trump is EVERYTHING that's wrong with America in human form. Hillary Clinton is what's right with America. It's practically mythic.
posted by wabbittwax at 8:26 AM on October 8, 2016 [111 favorites]


Ugh, sallybrown, I know you're right and that makes it even worse.
posted by lauranesson at 8:26 AM on October 8, 2016


Robert De Niro released a video: "I'd like to punch Donald Trump in the face."
posted by Room 641-A at 8:26 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


I have a feeling that 2020 is going to be a shitshow of candidates saying things like, "Well, yeah, sure, I did want to force women to have funerals for their miscarriages, but at least I'm not Donald Trump!"
posted by Apoch at 8:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


More and worse oppo coming

If company man Hugh Hewitt's saying that, and not just the prominent #NeverTrump campaign strategists, then I think we're talking about an ETA measured in hours and not days.

The private polls already showed that Trump was heading off a cliff, so this tape gave elected GOPers permission to jump before the debate.

Remember, though, the year-long voter dynamic: Trump's supporters were general election GOP voters who showed up for the primary instead of waiting for other people to pick a candidate on their behalf. Nobody currently self-identifying as 'deplorable' or wearing t-shirts like this to rallies is going to accept an October replacement on the ballot.
posted by holgate at 8:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Relax. It's over, we're safe.

Foreign governments may be plotting October surprises. It would only take one to vault a raving bully into the lead. Clinton should predict it first, because he can't without looking like he planned it.
posted by Brian B. at 8:29 AM on October 8, 2016


Seems to me like the next oppo will drop in Hillary's closing statement on Sunday night. It was insanely effective in Debate 1 and Trump's camp has shown they can't play any kind of defense against it except tweets at 3am.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


What I really want, but don't have the technical skills to make, is a list of every Republican legislator who endorsed Trump, and empty checkboxes besides them of whether or not they have withdrawn their endorsement or asked Trump to resign. And then we go down them, one by one, and ask. "Do you still endorse Trump today?"
posted by corb at 8:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]


David Fahrenthold is going to win like a million Pulitzers, right? They're going to retire his jersey.
posted by dismas at 8:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [82 favorites]


There is to be another revelation about Trump and women in NY Times Opinion page Sunday
posted by Postroad at 8:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


It's not about the election or politics so it's bound to be lost in all of this, but at least one part of what Trump says in that video is (gulp!) true. Awful, to be sure, but true.

You can get away with the things he describes, or anything horrible, when you're a star. There's no need to be human anymore, once you reach a certain stratum. Everyone from your staff to your employers to the media protects and insulates you, and your average weekend could include a half-dozen things any regular civilian would be shunned or fired or jailed for.

We have been giving celebrities a pass on being human forever. And we're increasingly valuing people based on celebrity alone, and letting our children look up to them as role models, instead of admiring actual people.

And then, you know... here we are.
posted by rokusan at 8:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


Costa Bomb: Just spoke w/ TRUMP by phone... “I’d never withdraw. I’ve never withdrawn in my life,” he told @washingtonpost.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]




I understand the thought process that thinks Hillary deserved a better opponent but on the other hand I kind of want to see the "Boys being Boys" bullshit that has excused men like Trump for ages being utterly vanquished by Hillary. Yeah it will still be around afterwards just like electing Obama didn't magically make the US a post-racial society but it would be a major step forward.

And quite frankly if the Republicans want to give Clinton a serious challenger they are welcome to start trying to pick their 2020 nominee now because they will be challenging a President Clinton.
posted by vuron at 8:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


And he had to make that a sex joke too. Or did I read too much into that?
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


Robert De Niro released a video: "I'd like to punch Donald Trump in the face."

I guess this means Donald Trump has lost the anti-vaxxer vote.
posted by My Dad at 8:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Brian B., I just do not see how military aggression by N Korea would push Trump over Hillary. In what world view (even far right) do people think he'd be a more level head, stronger opponent to saber rattling? What would he do, offer to send them nukes?
posted by instamatic at 8:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


@SopanDeb
Trump tells @WSJ that there is "zero" chance he will quit and that he's getting "unbelievable" support:
http://on.wsj.com/2dUZSmb
posted by acidic at 8:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


I don't remember if I read the comment on the last thread or under one of the numerous news articles I read last night. It was in reference to why he has fixated on the Bill Clinton and that line of attack even though he has been advised over and over not to go there. Trumps mirror is part of it, being pissed at Hillary for beating him is part of it but another part is that he DOES really think he's running against Bill Clinton. His misogyny will not allow himself to see Hillary as anything but an extension of Bill. Bill is the real candidate in his mind and will be running things as much or more then Hillary.
posted by Jalliah at 8:34 AM on October 8, 2016 [27 favorites]


Bob Costa just talked to Trump.
posted by andreap at 8:35 AM on October 8, 2016


I still can't believe this. I mean, we've known for a long time that Trump was this kind of person, anyone that lived in NYC in the 80s and 90s can tell you all kinds of stories. (I never did, but friends did.) Why this, and why now? It's a mystery. I guess it really is just racism.

Also, this "everyone does it" is such bullshit. I have never said anything remotely like that, and I have not heard anyone I know talk that way. (But then again, I don't know any Trump supporters, and I don't hang out with "bros", or sales/marketing people; I live and work in San Francisco.)

For the first time this campaign I have some hope!

Time to send HRC some more money...
posted by phliar at 8:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


“I’d never withdraw. I’ve never withdrawn in my life,” he told @washingtonpost.

He just can't stop himself, can he?
posted by nubs at 8:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


I do feel bad for Tic-Tacs getting their name dragged into this.

The Tic Tac social media guy should just tweet out a simple 'help :( '
posted by mazola at 8:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [30 favorites]


FTFY:

You can get away with the things he describes, or anything horrible, when you're [rich]. There's no need to be human anymore, once you reach a certain [tax bracket]. Everyone from your staff to your employers to the media protects and insulates you, and your average weekend could include a half-dozen things any regular civilian would be shunned or fired or jailed for.

This is America; stardom isn't necessary. What people without regular exposure to the very rich (and their children) are witnessing now is more privilege than stardom, and therefore much much more common than you want to imagine.
posted by blue suede stockings at 8:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


Costa Bomb: Just spoke w/ TRUMP by phone... “I’d never withdraw. I’ve never withdrawn in my life,” he told @washingtonpost.

That has to be one of the poorest word choices he could have used.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:36 AM on October 8, 2016 [26 favorites]


Trump tells @WSJ that there is "zero" chance he will quit and that he's getting "unbelievable" support

The "unbelievable" part certainly resonates.
posted by MoonOrb at 8:36 AM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]


Trump tells @WSJ that there is "zero" chance he will quit and that he's getting "unbelievable" support:

Yes, support for you right now is certainly unbelievable, all right.
posted by corb at 8:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [28 favorites]


I've never withdrawn in my life! Not even when I was asked to! Nay, BEGGED to!
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


Relax. It's over, we're safe.

The Trump campaign is totally relying on that sentiment.

Remember Brexit, and get out and vote.
posted by flabdablet at 8:38 AM on October 8, 2016 [70 favorites]


Scottie N Hughes plumbing new depths in surrogacy.

Maria Cardona employed one of the best "oh, sweeties" ever.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]


I'm glad Trump isn't leaving. Conservatives shouldn't be let off the hook for their choices. He'll captain the sinking ship that will rightfully drag all of them down for hopefully another couple decades.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 8:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


Costa Bomb: Just spoke w/ TRUMP by phone... “I’d never withdraw. I’ve never withdrawn in my life,” he told @washingtonpost.

Are we not doing phrasing?
posted by vuron at 8:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [29 favorites]


*Hillary staffer twirls hair and puts finishing touches on tenth Mike Pence attack ad*

*Other Hillary staffer sips coffee, gazing fondly at stack of Kasich oppo research*
posted by acidic at 8:40 AM on October 8, 2016 [25 favorites]


Has anyone seen ads attacking republican candidates for congress on this? Is there a concerted push yet?

Hang this around all their necks. I'm so fucking done.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:41 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


When I was a child I had a lot of dreams in which I was trying to catch up with a bus, which would linger at stops just ahead until I got close, at which point it would take off and linger at the next stop. I mention it, because trying to get to the end of these thread reminds me of it. Every time I reach the bottom, there's a hundred new comments that have appeared while I was reading.

I wrote a comment a few days ago about the fact that the only person in public life I'd ever seen who was so much of a cartoon character through and through as Trump was Savile, but it didn't seem appropriate at the time. The only difference seems to be that no one has ever accused Trump of necrophilia. But there's the same bubble of godlike power he's sitting in, believing he's untouchable (and to be honest, Savile was). It's like a giant balloon filled with sewage - it fills and fills and just hangs there until you forget it's there. But it just takes one pinprick and you're knee-deep in sewage.

I kind of guiltily want to admit that one reason I want to see Trump punished, is from being in rooms with men mouthing off like that and not having the power to say or do anything - even if I wanted to my tongue wouldn't move. It's kind of brutalising. It's even worse when the women they're talking about are your friends. Don't assume that men who don't openly object necessarily approve - we often don't have the power to do anything, and being put into that position of powerlessness is also a kind of abuse. I realise this is not in the least bit helpful and my feelings are the last thing that anyone else cares about, but I need to pay a little bit of attention to my own psychological wellbeing because it's in here with me. Anyway, yes, kill the pig.

And he's not an Alpha male. I've known one or two - they're a lot rarer than people think - and if you actually are Alpha, you don't have to try, you don't have to compete like that, and you certainly don't have to put down those around you. Working so hard to assert one's strength is an admission of weakness.

Oh, look thirty-five new comments since I started writing. Excuse me, I have a bus to catch.
posted by Grangousier at 8:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [58 favorites]


Phrasing!
posted by Fizz at 8:42 AM on October 8, 2016


Scottie N Hughes plumbing new depths in surrogacy.

Hughes: "This morning, no woman woke up affected by those words."

That's the kind of spin one sees when a toilet is flushing.
posted by Short Attention Sp at 8:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]


Welp. Trump's rape charges are showing up on the facebook now.
posted by Cookiebastard at 8:43 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Kelly Ayotte says she will not vote for Trump.

Also, my favorite suggestion is "Maybe someone should tell Trump that withdrawing from the race is like declaring bankruptcy."
posted by corb at 8:44 AM on October 8, 2016 [57 favorites]


Scottie N Hughes plumbing new depths in surrogacy.

Did... did she legitimately just say "this morning, no woman woke up affected by these words"?

I'm gonna let Elmo take this one.
posted by Defying Gravity at 8:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


Foreign governments may be plotting October surprises. It would only take one to vault a raving bully into the lead.

I don't believe that's supported by what we know about this race. Lots of scary things have happened in the last few months, and none of them particularly benefitted Trump. Would anyone not currently voting for Trump feel safer to have him in charge during a nuclear crisis? Trump winning is, barring unprecedented polling failure on a massive scale, only really conceivable if some third party really does have some amazing and terrible revelation about HRC. And I just don't believe they do - it seems wildly improbable that, after decades of scrutiny, there is some appalling Clinton secret just waiting to come out.
posted by howfar at 8:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Brian B., I just do not see how military aggression by N Korea would push Trump over Hillary. In what world view (even far right) do people think he'd be a more level head, stronger opponent to saber rattling? What would he do, offer to send them nukes?

The far right is voting for Trump regardless, and in a chaotic, nervous election, unsure voters will remain so under fear but their emotions will likely match the most aggressive candidate. Prepping them would be a safer strategy than not.
posted by Brian B. at 8:46 AM on October 8, 2016


I'm glad Trump isn't leaving. Conservatives shouldn't be let off the hook for their choices. He'll captain the sinking ship that will rightfully drag all of them down for hopefully another couple decades.

In the words of the sorely missed Molly Ivins (as well as several other folksy types), "You got to dance with them what brung you."

Dance, you slimy troglodytes, dance!
posted by bibliowench at 8:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [22 favorites]


"Maybe someone should tell Trump that withdrawing from the race is like declaring bankruptcy."

Declaring moral bankruptcy.
posted by Grangousier at 8:47 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


But if Trump's spin is smart couldn't they style this as emblematic of his terrible behaviour before he found Jesus etc? Bush did that with drink driving etc.

I guess he would have to break down sobbing on TV etc, but people love a redemption story.
posted by Coda Tronca at 8:47 AM on October 8, 2016


Kelly Ayotte finally jumped ship. Might be enough to save her.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:49 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Rats fleeing a sinking ship: still rats.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:50 AM on October 8, 2016 [40 favorites]


Me and my partner in righteousness have spent the entire day so far lounging around, eating bacon bagels, drinking coffee, and swapping between Metafilter and Twitter amid exclamations of shock and awe as each new morsel falls from the cyberheavens.

Schadensloth is a thing. Two great vices in one!
posted by Devonian at 8:50 AM on October 8, 2016 [86 favorites]


> Kelly Ayotte finally jumped ship. Might be enough to save her

If you're not voting for Trump because of how he treats women, but think Pence is A-OK for the ladies, I don't know what to tell you.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [69 favorites]


But if Trump's spin is smart couldn't they style this as emblematic of his terrible behaviour before he found Jesus etc?

He's literally incapable of that. Apologising would make him look weak. Losers apologise.

And his spin isn't smart and never has been.
posted by Grangousier at 8:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


The Trump is a "role model" comment in her debate is going to doom Ayotte.

I'm hoping that McCain gets called to task as well so that the fiction of him being some principled maverick is forever revealed as false.
posted by vuron at 8:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


And he's not an Alpha male. I've known one or two - they're a lot rarer than people think - and if you actually are Alpha

There's so such fucking thing as an Alpha Male
posted by Greg Nog at 8:53 AM on October 8, 2016 [236 favorites]


But if Trump's spin is smart...

It isn't.
posted by harriet vane at 8:54 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Kelly Ayotte finally jumped ship. Might be enough to save her.

Hassan has already hammered her prior to her final decision about her umming and ahhing and considering the political calculus. Ayotte had no winning move and the longer she took to make it the worse it looked. Now Hassan is going to be beating her over the head with this until election day.

Hopefully the people of NH will respond in kind. Ayotte has been particularly resilient in the polls when it comes to being a political coward.
posted by Talez at 8:54 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


There's so such fucking thing as an Alpha Male.

Christ, I think I sprained my finger favoriting this.
posted by Mooski at 8:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [31 favorites]


So, we now see in a clinical sense, Donald Trump's projections of his own behavior on immigrants from Mexico. Now we see what a little "B-word" he is, by his own admission; though I am not sure that creatures whose cis female populations are named thus, deserve this projection of Mr. Trumps.

Utah is dropping him like a rock, because his stuff with women is way too close to home. Utah pretends to be nice about women, but I live in the exact town, that is the number 2 lowest pay ratio women/men in the nation, number 1 is also here. There are all kinds of ways to abuse women, many not as personal as Mr. Trump's, but devastating all the same. Please wake up Utah Eweople!
posted by Oyéah at 8:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


Pence is no longer attending Ryan's Wisconsin event.
posted by chris24 at 8:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


Pence has also been disinvited from Paul Ryan's event today. (MSNBC)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]


The bona fide reports that Trump is being asked to step down are just surreal.
posted by My Dad at 8:57 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


...but Pence swears that Trump never said any of those things.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:57 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


May I also suggest, Paul Ryan has been the Republican candidate all along.
posted by Oyéah at 8:57 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Apologising would make him look weak. Losers apologise.

But he has already apologised... the more fake the better, for TV. I dunno, I just have a feeling a TV special where he begs forgiveness because now he has found the Lord to heal his ways could actually see him put on votes.
posted by Coda Tronca at 8:57 AM on October 8, 2016


Might be enough to save her.

Trump's been filling NH venues since the primary. Can Ayotte really do without the snakeflag demographic?
posted by holgate at 8:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


"...but Pence swears that Trump never said any of those things."

I'm going to go and make some tea just so I can spit it out onto my keyboard.
posted by I-baLL at 8:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


Ronny Chieng goes to Chinatown to interview folks in the wake of that super-racist O'Reilly Factor clip, and it's supremely satisfying.
posted by salix at 8:59 AM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]




I have to say I'm really beginning to feel sorry for the moderators. Yeah for the most part these threads have pretty much eliminated all the bitter recriminations of the primaries and focused on the crazy of the general but still that's a lot of comments to go through.

Although they should take heart as we only have 1 month remaining of ElectionFilter which is probably no more than 5-6 threads + the inevitable 2-3 on November 8th.
posted by vuron at 9:00 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


May I also suggest, Paul Ryan has been the Republican candidate all along.

What does this mean, in plain English? I don't understand. He's very clearly not the Republican candidate. That person is Donald J. Trump.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 9:00 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


We have been giving celebrities a pass on being human forever.

"Celebrities," sure sure. None of the men who've grabbed my tits and ass over the years have been famous. Or rich, either. we can blame celebrities if we want to - certainly that's the go-to position of every unfamous unrich MRA schlub who claims that the only reason some bitch turned down his gropevance was because he wasn't rich and famous. and blaming the upper class is only better if we admit that men function as a class in many respects. do we, though?
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:00 AM on October 8, 2016 [45 favorites]


It will be a very interesting week seeing what sound bytes Trump apologists dredge up from the 1990s when the Democrats had their own creepy, misogynistic, sexually harassing, rapey president. Probably for the best that the Bill Clinton era was pre-twitter. I'm not so much worried about HRC, who has been preparing for this for years, was also victimized by BC's behavior, and has never said anything truly gross as far as I know, but I am curious what might be out there as far as prominent Democrats dismissing allegations against Bill Clinton.
posted by MoonOrb at 9:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]




First Skittles, now Tic Tacs. Leave the candy alone, Donnie.
posted by jonmc at 9:02 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


So I was just having this conversation with a friend, and made this observation about the Breitbart baby bunny "scandal": I think we're in a sector of the population where I'm not even joking when I say a few of them probably did abuse animals as kids and think it was funny and they don't understand why a girl was within her rights to stop that.

And I think that made me realize something here. Trump doesn't think he did anything wrong and he really, really doesn't understand why anybody else would think he did anything wrong. A lot of his supporters, like the Breitbart crowd, are going to feel similarly.

They have no ability to understand that some men legitimately think that women are people--even just in the way that Paul Ryan does, I'm talking an incredibly low bar here. They think women are things and this is such a fundamental part of their world view, that men are entitled to take what they want and this includes women, that it is going to render them completely incapable of dealing with this. Trump isn't just a bad presidential candidate, though he is; he's a candidate who has a giant glowing weak spot and he has no idea it's there, even when the entire country is shouting at him. There are people who legit think this is going to just blow over. I don't think I'd quite believed that could be true until now, but I think it is.
posted by Sequence at 9:03 AM on October 8, 2016 [38 favorites]


What I really want, but don't have the technical skills to make, is a list of every Republican legislator who endorsed Trump, and empty checkboxes besides them of whether or not they have withdrawn their endorsement or asked Trump to resign.

This person on Twitter has been sharing a Google doc with who has issued a statement, who unendorsed, who confirmed their previous nonendorsement, etc.

(Also, I ran out of favorites last night, so know that I'm giving you all mind favorites right now.)
posted by melissasaurus at 9:03 AM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]


Trump surrogate on MSNBC claims Pence's withdrawal from Wisconsin event is a "scheduling issue."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Leave the candy alone, Donnie.


Ah that's what happened:

he tried to get himself a candy-date...
posted by Namlit at 9:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


PENCE IS OUT FROM WISCONSIN TODAY!

Is he ready to throw the human cheeto under the bus?
posted by Talez at 9:05 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


(I mean: DT's position on women letting you do anything if you're powerful and rich is exactly the position of the reddit creeps who lack all his advantages. he is giving them aid and comfort in their own assaults, as men of his kind always have, across all class strata. They say: you can't believe women who say they don't like being attacked no matter how handsome or rich or famous the attacker is, because look at all these rich famous rapists! THEY say the women liked it! so we all agree, all of us who matter and are in a position to know! case closed!

the difference between not filing charges because you're too realistic or scared to fight and not filing charges because you didn't mind is lost on all of these men. lost deliberately.)
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:06 AM on October 8, 2016 [17 favorites]


Trump surrogate on MSNBC claims Pence's withdrawal from Wisconsin event is a "scheduling issue."

Indeed, it turns out the schedule said "rape apologist", not "unelectable rape apologist."
posted by tonycpsu at 9:07 AM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]


I just have a feeling a TV special where he begs forgiveness because now he has found the Lord to heal his ways could actually see him put on votes.

I will give you a nickel for that feeling.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:07 AM on October 8, 2016


"Some parts of the establishment are choosing to turn their backs." - Trump Senior Campaign Advisor Boris Epshteyn
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:08 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


But if Trump's spin is smart couldn't they style this as emblematic of his terrible behaviour before he found Jesus etc? Bush did that with drink driving etc.

I guess he would have to break down sobbing on TV etc, but people love a redemption story.



I don't doubt that this what they want him to do. He won't do it. He's not even capable of faking it if he was somehow convince it was the only strategy. There were reports from the campaign that the video was delayed because of the time it took to persuade him to do as much as he did do. And it's clear from the video that he was not happy. I expect that the only way they got him to agree at all was if he do his Clinton attack thing.

This morning he's said he won't withdraw. He won't. He's going to crow about his 'support' because that's all he can see. He really does believe he won the last debate. Like it's not him BSing. He believes it because hey look at my rally numbers, look at the online polls, people love me!
posted by Jalliah at 9:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


The only difference seems to be that no one has ever accused Trump of necrophilia

Jimmy Savile was accused of necrophillia?!
posted by Flashman at 9:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Rats fleeing a sinking ship: still rats.

This is unfair to rats. For one thing, there are things rats can't stomach.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:10 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


>Pence's withdrawal from Wisconsin event is a "scheduling issue."

Listen, sorry, I'm not gonna be able to make our 4:00 slamming the test plane into the ground in a giant fireball; I've got blowing the canopy and pulling my fucking ripcord at 3:30.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 9:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [65 favorites]


The sad thing is that the Republican Party and their faithful will learn absolutely nothing of value from Mr. Trump's Wild Ride.

Their lesson will be not that their principles are bad, or their messages, or their methods. It will be that the candidate was 110% of the problem, and we can't understand why people got swept up in a fervor that they didn't completely understand and we'll never let someone like Trump WHO ISN'T EVEN A REAL REPUBLICAN ANYWAY AND CERTAINLY NOT A TRUE CONSERVATIVE on the ticket again and look over there! Hillary murder Benghazi corruption Foundation Bill's penis unfit! Then the usual gang of idiots will scream about how the election was tainted by Trump and therefore Hillary has zero mandate and it's their sworn duty to obstruct her devious and anti-American agenda and expose her evil core to the world.

They will not stop and reflect on, Jesus H. Christ, how did we get to this point as a party? Not one bit. The Very Serious Thinkers wing will use this as a whip to regain some dominance over the party structure but they will carry on with the exact same anti-woman agendas they've been doing before Trump came along.
posted by delfin at 9:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [33 favorites]


It looks like there is a town hall question that can be voted on for the candidates to be asked in the debate: Link
What would you do if someone grabbed you daughter's crotch in a sexual advance?
posted by VTX at 9:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]


@richardhine:
Trump: Don't judge me on the man I was 10 years ago. But please judge Hillary on the man her husband was 20 years ago #TrumpTapes
posted by chris24 at 9:13 AM on October 8, 2016 [84 favorites]


I never took him seriously. I didn’t even think he would last in New York, because people hated him once they got to know him. He was a horse’s ass. Still is.

-from the elderly gossip columnist Liz Smith, in the New Yorker
posted by kozad at 9:13 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


(Er, the link I meant to include when calling Pence a rape apologist was this one. Carry on.)
posted by tonycpsu at 9:13 AM on October 8, 2016


"in plain English?" In plain English, Trump grabbed this campaign season, but was never the bona fide Republican candidate, spending his own embezzled monies to do so. He may be the ugly face of that good ol' boy system, but he is not fit to be the out front face. I have opined many a time that the Republican party did not have a real candidate for this election, and that has worried me, because I have wondered what they have up their sleeves.

Paul Ryan has been deliberately kept in the background of this race, and is white as snow blameless, and after Trump's astonishing performance, and the astonishing performance of the media, keeping him on the front page with several images, week after week; someone is going to come out from behind the green curtain, or some event will happen that puts Paul Ryan in the running for the White House, or in the White House. There is more than one way to get there.

For the life of me, I can not see how anyone thought we would elect a member of the rat pack or rat pact, to the presidency. It makes me think there is an alternate plan of huge malfeasance.

I still think that Paul Ryan is going to hit that ticket in the next couple of days, by some miraculous means. If only as Pence's Veep. His role will be to dilute Pence in the public mind.
posted by Oyéah at 9:14 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Several witnesses claim to have seen Savile having sex with mortuary bodies, yes.
posted by Coda Tronca at 9:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


Never assume Trump has a plan. He just moves from one instantaneous ego gratification to the next. There is no brilliant, evil scheme — there's just the roving garbage pile of pathologies.

Trump's lather.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 9:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


This is from a ways up the thread (HOW DO YOU PEOPLE GET UP SO EARLY?????) but:

how are future grade school textbooks going to report on this if it is indeed an inflection point in the campaign?

My guess is that, if Trump loses, this entire thing will be consigned to the dustbin of history.

How many failed candidates for President do you remember from elections you were too young to participate in or which happened before living memory? Aside from Dewey because of the famous image of Truman with that newspaper, or maybe some statesmen who are important for other things but famously never became POTUS, you mostly don't. It will be very easy to pretend the details of this election never happened, and that Hillary Clinton ran against a totally nondescript real estate magnate who just didn't win for whatever reason. At best, this will get trotted out among history buffs as one of our few close calls with fascism, a la Charles Lindbergh or the Know Nothings.

It's much more palatable to remember the historic election of the first female President!!!!!!!!!! It's much less palatable to constantly be reminded how close we came to the edge. "Grab her by the pussy" doesn't even come into it.
posted by Sara C. at 9:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]


Jimmy Savile was accused of necrophillia?!

Yes.

(That article probably deserves a generalised trigger warning.)
posted by Grangousier at 9:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


So if Pence quits, what happens? Do they pick a new VP?

Also, who wants to lay odds that 2020 is going to be Ryan/Pence?
posted by blnkfrnk at 9:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


But if Trump's spin is smart couldn't they style this as emblematic of his terrible behaviour before he found Jesus etc?

As they say, if ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry Christmas
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:18 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Given the wisdom the GOP has shown in recent history, I'm halfway expecting 2020 to be Trump/Pence again
posted by beerperson at 9:19 AM on October 8, 2016 [30 favorites]


Politics is so febrile at the moment, I'd put evens on Laurel/Hardy 2020...
posted by Devonian at 9:19 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


I still think that Paul Ryan is going to hit that ticket in the next couple of days, by some miraculous means.

This is pure, groundless fantasy.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:19 AM on October 8, 2016 [33 favorites]


I still think that Paul Ryan is going to hit that ticket in the next couple of days, by some miraculous means. If only as Pence's Veep. His role will be to dilute Pence in the public mind.

Even if this happened, Ryan couldn't win - he can't get on the ballot in Florida, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas or Virginia (Washington Post link, remember to open in an incognito window).
posted by howfar at 9:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


But if Trump's spin is smart couldn't they style this as emblematic of his terrible behaviour before he found Jesus etc?

Nah, in an alternate reality pretty much all he'd have to do is start the debate off by quoting Romans 3:23, utter a simple and final "I'm sorry" (yeah, like that would be possible), and then say they need to get on to more pressing matters so they can help the American people make the right choice when they vote.

The main drawback is that it would eliminate his ability to keep mentioning Bill Clinton for similar mistakes. So far he doesn't seem to be inclined to drop the "but Bill..." stuff because he knows a huge part of his base won't drop it either.
posted by fuse theorem at 9:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


"This is pure, groundless fantasy" The money that wants to run this scene is not going to lie down that easily. I think Trump will be over after the town hall on Sunday.
posted by Oyéah at 9:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


But if Trump's spin is smart couldn't they style this as emblematic of his terrible behaviour before he found Jesus etc? Bush did that with drink driving etc.

I guess he would have to break down sobbing on TV etc, but people love a redemption story.


I just have a feeling a TV special where he begs forgiveness because now he has found the Lord to heal his ways could actually see him put on votes.

Bush didn't find Jesus & redemption 30 days before an election, though, and the "redemption arc" still requires the offender to spend time in the wilderness - Jim Bakker still had to resign from the PTL, just as one example.

And besides, it just ain't gonna happen. The "defiant apology" video is it - he actually said the words "I'm sorry" and "apologize" and over at r/the_donald it's being lauded as a Work of Genius From A Master Statesman, so undoubtedly Trump's social media is chock-full of people blowing smoke up his ass about how mature and professional he was to even make that video. There's no sobbing breakdown over this coming.
posted by soundguy99 at 9:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


The money that wants to run this scene is not going to lie down that easily.

They couldn't keep him off the ticket in the first place. There's no-one driving this clown car.
posted by howfar at 9:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [39 favorites]


The money that wants to run this scene is not going to lie down that easily

The Trump candidacy has put to bed the lie that people with money are at all competent.
posted by beerperson at 9:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [36 favorites]


...Bear with me – this is kind of a stretch – but could it be that a very big creepy clown is actually showing up and menacing us in our streets, woods and schools? That the fear he inspires is spreading, and it’s unclear what is true and what is not? This clown’s mask is a horror show in itself, he wears a terrible wig and, although it is said that he kids a lot, is never funny.
The explanation for October's clown sighting hysteria is staring us in the face
posted by y2karl at 9:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]


MSNBC is airing Senate candidate Rep. Joe Heck's speech disavowing Trump's comments, and calling for him to get out of the race. He is being booed by presumably a Trump supporter.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


Oh boy there are so many comments I'm dying to favorite but I hit my limit awhile ago. Every time I read something that I agree with or makes me laugh or gives me pause to think my finger twitches.

I really don't think Pence will be on the Ryan ticket. He will be smeared with Trump grease and stink of loserdom. Maybe Rubio, maybe Joni Ernst or another fresh face. But Pence is done. And so is Christie. And Guiliani. I think those guys are going to find it tough to get booked as speakers.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


Joe Heck, R-NV Senate candidate, just called for Trump to step down at an event where Romney is speaking. He was booed live on MSNBC

Related: whoever this host is (Kristen something I think?) is just terrible
posted by schadenfrau at 9:28 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


I mean, we're all very focused on the groping scandal (looks like I made it about a week and a half after I swore off these election threads), and Twitter is all very focused on this, and it's dominating Google News…

…but the fact is there really are two Americas. There's Informed America and Uninformed America. Informed America knows the score with Donald Trump, and any members of Informed America who still support him truly deserve the "deplorable" descriptor. Uninformed America has, at best, vague secondhand intimations or a general hunch that he's pretty sleazy and maybe incompetent and probably a liar ("but what politician isn't?"). Their voting pattern, I hypothesize, is based not on information but on reflex. Now, some members of the Uninformed portion will tend to reflexively vote against the Republican…but not, I suspect, most.

I'm sure this comes off as elitist but it is based on face-to-face discussions about this and other elections in a variety of social contexts I've been in. I think many, many Americans—maybe most Americans—are not interested in following politics to even one-tenth the degree that we do in here. (And due to that, this year, they might be more psychologically healthy than us in here.)
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 9:29 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]


One downside of Trump dominating the airwaves is that exposure of Hillary's support for Social Security cuts in her speeches to the financial sector will fall under the radar.

It'll be important for all of us to keep the pressure on her to stay true and faithful after inauguration to the policy revisions she made after Sanders and the convention.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 9:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]


I seriously cannot believe that people keep discussing Bill Clinton as though this is equivalent and as if it were at all ducking relevant when Bill Clinton has never been the candidate.

"Bill Clinton is not the candidate." That's it. That's all they need to say. Over and over again.

Because he fucking isn't.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [25 favorites]


I just have a feeling a TV special where he begs forgiveness because now he has found the Lord to heal his ways could actually see him put on votes.

Nope. For every Hillary-hating-evangelical he got from such a stunt, he'd lose a red-pill-redditor that liked him for his "alpha male", "tells it like it is", "isn't a politician" qualities. His refusal to be "PC" or pander for votes is what those guys like about him, and such a blatant selling-out to the Jesus crowd would fly in the face of all that.
posted by mstokes650 at 9:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


And he's not an Alpha male. I've known one or two - they're a lot rarer than people think - and if you actually are Alpha, you don't have to try, you don't have to compete like that, and you certainly don't have to put down those around you. Working so hard to assert one's strength is an admission of weakness.

This is something I've been thinking about while looking at the spectacle of Trump.
I was in an abusive relationship, and from the first time I saw him say "trust me", I was disgusted, but also had trigger-reactions. I was very young when it started, and one of the things this guy told me was that "all men are like this, they just pretend to be civilized". Since then, I've had difficulty trusting men, even though I intellectually know people are not all like that. But I've also been observing - trying to get past my fear and anxiety.

The thing is, as Grangousier wrote, real alphas are completely different. When people compare Trump with past womanizing presidents, I think they are generally missing the point completely. I think some high achievers attract attention from both men and women, their very presence is seductive. I have a relative who is so big A alpha, it's almost a joke among his friends, and he is the sweetest, kindest person I know towards everyone.

Back in the day, in a different culture, there was a different view of adultery. My gran told me that because people would not get divorced under any circumstance, some of her friends lived in discreetly open marriages. And there was definitely some power to be had in having affairs. There was a lot of hypocrisy all around, as she explained it.

Today, things are different, and being able to control ones impulses has become part of what is cool, like eating your vegetables and working out. Look at the Obamas.

If I'm rambling it's because Trump causes literal pain in my brain.
posted by mumimor at 9:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [27 favorites]


lol redditors don't vote
posted by beerperson at 9:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


Holy fucking shit.
posted by medusa at 9:34 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


This is all happening so fast now, I feel like the Republican Party itself is crumbling. Something big is afoot.
posted by sallybrown at 9:34 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


@TheShrillest GOP 2014: Marriage is between ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN, that's GOD'S design. GOP 2016: King David had 500 concubines what's the big deal

I sure hope Sean Hannity has to pay for that concubine remark

Anecdotal Evidence Dept.: For my Evangelical Father in Law this was the final straw. He is out and he won't be voting at all. With any luck he will be representative of a great many Republicans and Pat "Bathroom Bill" Mcrory will be out and take Senator Burr with him.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [76 favorites]


Allegedly the other woman Trump was speaking about (the hot wife who wouldn't have sex with him) was Nancy O'Dell. As much as it pains me to say about this scum, I don't think anything he's said about women will lose him many voters. His fanbase already hate women, and were probably already mentally high-fiving his comments about grabbing pussy. They would love to do it themselves and see him as their hero. They probably find his comments hilarious. I can't even behave civilly towards anyone once I find out they're voting for this piece of shit.
posted by the webmistress at 9:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


"Bill Clinton is not the candidate." That's it. That's all they need to say. Over and over again.

I've been saying "That stuff, plus his two terms as elected president, sure does disqualify him from being president now!"

It's fun.
posted by Cookiebastard at 9:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


Seeing Mitt-Bot on MSNBC quoting Reagan in support of GOP candidates and disavowing Trump's statements suggests that, to the extent that the GOP party apparatus has any control over the clown car at this point, they're going to refocus their efforts on trying to protect down-ballot races. Any effort rearranging deck chairs on the Presidential race is wasted now -- they just need to fight to keep the Senate, and probably the House at this point.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


"Holy fucking shit."

Wait, what? What did I miss?
posted by I-baLL at 9:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


With respect to this:
...Bear with me – this is kind of a stretch – but could it be that a very big creepy clown is actually showing up and menacing us in our streets, woods and schools? That the fear he inspires is spreading, and it’s unclear what is true and what is not? This clown’s mask is a horror show in itself, he wears a terrible wig and, although it is said that he kids a lot, is never funny.
The explanation for October's clown sighting hysteria is staring us in the face
My kid's school actually had a mass shooting threat from the creepy clown contingent, so I've been thinking about them a lot recently. And I've been waiting and waiting for an alt-right connection to surface. Surely I can't be the only person waiting to see if some of these clowns have pointy hoods, can I?
posted by instamatic at 9:38 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


…but the fact is there really are two Americas. There's Informed America and Uninformed America. Informed America knows the score with Donald Trump, and any members of Informed America who still support him truly deserve the "deplorable" descriptor. Uninformed America has, at best, vague secondhand intimations or a general hunch that he's pretty sleazy and maybe incompetent and probably a liar ("but what politician isn't?"). Their voting pattern, I hypothesize, is based not on information but on reflex. Now, some members of the Uninformed portion will tend to reflexively vote against the Republican…but not, I suspect, most.

I don't think there are two Americas, really. I think there is a normal distribution of information and education, like pretty much everything everywhere.

What there is is an unprecedented level of polarisation in American politics - and US politics has, for decades, been more partisan and polarised than that of most other stable democracies. You're right that a lot of people will reflexively vote for Trump. The events of the campaign have shown that, no matter how bad it gets, a lot of people will simply never vote for the candidate with a D . But there little evidence that this correlates with education or information - it's simply a deep cultural divide.

The correlation between being wrong and being stupid is massively weaker than you'd think.
posted by howfar at 9:38 AM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]


> Is there really going to be someone who doesn't hear about "grab them in the pussy" because it came out on a Friday?

I told the story of Trump's tax return (well, first page) leaking to someone last week. Even if this lasts past the weekend (and it will), that's still no guarantee. People who duck out of work early on Friday to camping for the weekend may not even have cellphone signal, even if they wanted to check the news, and some of them so out of "evens" they had to leave civilization.
posted by fragmede at 9:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Surely I can't be the only person waiting to see if some of these clowns have pointy hoods, can I?

Based on the "Clown lives matter" type comments in certain spots over on Reddit, I wouldn't be surprised.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:40 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I told the story of Trump's tax return (well, first page) leaking to someone last week. Even if this lasts past the weekend (and it will), that's still no guarantee. People who duck out of work early on Friday to camping for the weekend may not even have cellphone signal, even if they wanted to check the news, and some of them so out of "evens" they had to leave civilization.

Those people don't vote.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:41 AM on October 8, 2016




As much as it pains me to say about this scum, I don't think anything he's said about women will lose him many voters. His fanbase already hate women, and were probably already mentally high-fiving his comments about grabbing pussy.

It's not as if literally 100% of Trump supporters are the red pill MRA fuckfaces we see on TV. For every one of them, there are people who do not like Trump at all but have been willing to tolerate him because [Supreme Court/abortion/guns/whatever]. Some fraction of those men and women is totally able to be swayed, AS HAS BEEN PERSONALLY ATTESTED TO IN THIS VERY THREAD.

The abortion thing is particularly salient. There are MANY Republican women who genuinely and sincerely think abortion is a moral evil that they are obliged to fight, but those same women are the people most likely to say "ok, enough is enough" after these most recent comments, not to mention what is sure to come out in the days and weeks to come.

Those people exist. Let's stop pretending they don't.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [43 favorites]


I just got off the phone with my mom, who really, really hates Hillary. My mom is a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat, and she was always going to vote for whomever was the Democratic nominee, but she despises Hillary Clinton and I think was kind of mad at me for volunteering for her. My mom says that Hillary reminds her of all the feminists who treated her like dirt in the '70s because she had a traditionally-female job, and I'm not even sure what to say to that. So anyway, we talked about the tapes and how Donald Trump reminded us of every predatory privileged asshole who'd ever known he could get away with harassing and demeaning us, and she told me that she signed up to go to Pennsylvania and campaign for Hillary. So Hell has frozen over, and I actually do think this is going to make a difference.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:43 AM on October 8, 2016 [190 favorites]


Ryan couldn't win - he can't get on the ballot in Florida

isn't the EC structured weird though? You vote for the Party, not the Party's candidates per se, and that slate of Electors votes in the actual person when the Electoral College meets in December?

So AFAIK a vote for "Trump/Pence" is actually a vote for a GOP elector at the state's EC votorama in December. (?)
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 9:43 AM on October 8, 2016




I'm worried that the historical significance of the election of the first female president is going to be overshadowed by some other historical firsts. The first election where one or possibly both candidates on a ticket resign or drop out shortly before the vote? The first election where Electoral College voters cast their vote for someone other than the name on the general ballot?

This has the potential to put a big asterisk beside Hillary Clinton's name in the history books, with the implication that she only won because her primary opposition imploded.

For that I hope both Trump and Pence remain the GOP candidates and take the loss.
posted by rocket88 at 9:44 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


This is so bad already ... and the bigger issue is anyway always that Trump seems to be comfortable, no, positively eager to misuse whichever power he feels he has at a given moment. I shudder to think about what he thinks has happened in those last 11 years. HOW has he (in his book) become more mature?
posted by Namlit at 9:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think there is a normal distribution of information...What there is is an unprecedented level of polarisation in American politics

That polarisation extends to information and sources of information; hardcore conservatives tend to rarely stray from the right-wing media bubble of Fox News, Hannity and Limbaugh on talk radio, websites like the Blaze and redstate.com, and certain areas of Reddit, and frequently actively disdain mainstream media sources that aren't explicitly partisan (NYT, Washington Post, non-Fox news, etc) as displaying "liberal bias". They either aren't aware of them because they won't read/watch etc as a matter of principle, or they actively reject them as reporting anything consistent with reality as they understand it. So yeah, there's Uninformed America, and there's Misinformed America (and there's probably a degree of overlap between those two).
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 9:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


isn't the EC structured weird though? You vote for the Party, not the Party's candidates per se, and that slate of Electors votes in the actual person when the Electoral College meets in December?

This is so fundamentally undemocratic that it kind of makes my skin crawl that we're talking about it like it's some great hail mary option. If the Republicans are stupid enough to pull anything like this, they will be directly responsible for the dozens of Wacos that follow when the 10% of ultra-die-hard Trump supporters correctly insist that the democratic process has been totally subverted.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


As Brian Beutler notes, the idea that the institutional GOP can swap out the ballots even as pRick Scott won't extend the Florida registration deadline shows a staggering sense of entitlement towards power. You don't get a do-over, people.
posted by holgate at 9:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [36 favorites]


This has the potential to put a big asterisk beside Hillary Clinton's name in the history books, with the implication that she only won because her primary opposition imploded.

Eh, I'll take whatever Dem victory we can get. It's not like the super-sketchy lost-popular-vote barely-beat-the-most-boring-man-alive appointed-by-supreme-court decision of Bush 2000 stopped him from immediately grabbing the steering wheel with gusto and drunkdriving the republic into the nearest elm tree.
posted by Greg Nog at 9:48 AM on October 8, 2016 [135 favorites]


It's not as if literally 100% of Trump supporters are the red pill MRA fuckfaces we see on TV. For every one of them, there are people who do not like Trump at all but have been willing to tolerate him because [Supreme Court/abortion/guns/whatever]. Some fraction of those men and women is totally able to be swayed

Honestly, this is why I'm not that worked up about comments like "offensive to our women" and the like.

It is probably more likely that framing pussygate as a crime against the natural patriarchal order of things (a crime against our property) will get through to the "hold your nose and vote Trump" types than framing this in the kind of feminist context that feels more natural to people like me. And at this point, I feel like whatever gets the job done. Especially since this is all coming from Republicans, so it's not like we have to come up with the icky patriarchal framings ourselves.

It's not like I didn't know that Romney, Ryan, Pence, et al were part of the patriarchy in the most literal possible sense.
posted by Sara C. at 9:49 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]


The first election where one or possibly both candidates on a ticket resign or drop out shortly before the vote?

Why on earth would Clinton drop out now?

Ohhhh, Pence, got it.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 9:49 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


*shimmy* Whoo. Okay.

Caught up (probably for the next thirty seconds only). So many things to say that I'm having what I call a collision in the remarks queue.

In no particular order, then:
  • Those from up in the thread who mentioned they'd like to vandalize Trump/Pence signs but obviously won't do it: I wouldn't worry about it, no need to vandalize any more. To some significant percentage of their owners and viewers, the big name printed on those looks like enough of a vandalism itself now, anyway. At least going by the reports we've been getting about disendorsements, rage, and disillusionment on Facebook.
  • No, Paul Ryan, I'm not to be "revered." I'm to be respected. As a human being. Kindly shut the hell up, please.
  • Similarly to everyone who makes it a point to mention that they have a daughter as they express their outrage. "I'll only come out against something evil if/when it personally affects me/my family" had been a position I've found infuriating, but tolerated; except. Guys. If you have a daughter, you must have had an intimate relationship with said daughter's mother at some point. Predating your daughter, even. Awareness of what affects your loved ones: You're Doing It Wrong.
  • *insert the usual treatise about internalized misogyny here*
  • *insert the usual rant about hypocrisy here*
  • I'm in the throes of many many conflicting feelings. There is poetic justice in that it's what he undeniably said about his treatment of women which seems to be what broke the camel's back; but the scary clownhouse he exposed–people who cheered The Wall, people who were emboldened in their racism and misogyny, the insinuations of voter fraud and inciting violence at the polls [1], the tax fraud, the lint clinging all over him and his supporters which obviously came from a Russian pocket, the total devotion to word salads, the obvious lack of any sort of acumen, or respect for people, country, or procedure, the... yeah no I can't possibly finish the list. I don't think there's an end to that list. Given all that, and especially especially the racism and xenophobia, it feels... unfair, a little bit, somehow, that his downfall may be described as being from this one single thing.
  • How can something feel like perfect poetic justice and an anticlimax at the same time? That, my friends, I can tell you in one word: 2016!
  • I'm still afraid about the election and what may come afterwards, a little bit. But less than I was three days ago.
  • We may not have to confront The Donald any more, but we still definitely, absolutely have to confront those who went right along and embraced the utter vileness he worked to normalize for his own gain.
I'm sure I'm missing/forgetting some things that I wanted to, but this is long enough already.


[1] I'm sorry, "encouraging election observers."
posted by seyirci at 9:49 AM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]


@LindseyGrahamSC:
"Name one sports team, university, publicly-held company, etc. that would accept a person like this as their standard bearer?"
posted by chris24 at 9:49 AM on October 8, 2016 [38 favorites]


This has the potential to put a big asterisk beside Hillary Clinton's name in the history books, with the implication that she only won because her primary opposition imploded.

You say that like it's a bad thing, but to me that reads like a one-two punch to the dark underbelly of the American psyche.

Now if we can just get a couple good kicks in while it's down.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 9:49 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


isn't the EC structured weird though? You vote for the Party, not the Party's candidates per se, and that slate of Electors votes in the actual person when the Electoral College meets in December?

No? Pretty sure the EC vote is for a specific person, not a party.

I don't think there are any procedural tricks the GOP can pull at this point to salvage themselves.
posted by dis_integration at 9:50 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


The accusation is that Russia will hack the election at the voting booth. The election is already hacked on Facebook, Reddit, every comment section, every way it can be hacked, and by parties outside the US. The great snake of information and disinformation is running at full speed. I took a training out of the State of Utah division of Arts Museums and Culture, change leader training. The main talking point about making change, at all, was that emotion trumps everything. It is amazing that name pops in there, but that is the exact statement.

Opinion creators have grabbed onto the energy of the disenfranchised by economic and social forces. By disenfranchised I mean, they suddenly reason they have no power, and that realization has been carefully channeled in to thinking that programs like food stamps, medical care, and minimum wage standards, and immigrants are the cause of what they are lacking in their lives. A certain, huge portion of this has come from abroad, and carefully crafted.

When we all took tests about local vernacular, when we volunteered out dialects for scrutiny, then that is one way non native elements have been able to stir the national psyche, they sound like us. Weirdly this election has been thrown to Hillary Clinton, because of the improbable, horrific, reality of Mr. Trump. I tell you this, nowhere has the power of the memory of the web been more awesome, than in the last 24 hours. Every, single, thing at a certain echelon, is available for replay.
posted by Oyéah at 9:50 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


But there little evidence that this correlates with education or information - it's simply a deep cultural divide.

The correlation between being wrong and being stupid is massively weaker than you'd think.


I hope I did not suggest that I consider the "Uninformed" group stupid. If anything, part of my thinking over the past ~month that led me to my previous post has been my hunch that a good portion of Trump supporters are not truly "irredeemable deplorables" but are simply taken in by the con. That doesn't make them stupid, any more than being uninformed does. And one comforting thing about the "Informed"/"Uninformed" framing is that these are attributes that can be changed, likely with less difficulty than changing values and beliefs. I dunno, maybe I'm ultimately just trying to reassure myself.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 9:50 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


> My mom says that Hillary reminds her of all the feminists who treated her like dirt in the '70s because she had a traditionally-female job

I'm a freaking housewife and I don't understand that perspective.

I know what it's like to be sneered at because I lounge around by the pool all day drinking Martinis and reading Agatha Christies, or whatever it is I do, but I haven't seen any of that scorn coming from 21st-century Hillary at all.
posted by The corpse in the library at 9:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [28 favorites]


"Name one sports team, university, publicly-held company, etc. that would accept a person like this as their standard bearer?"


I mean, Penn State comes to mind.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [101 favorites]


The corpse in the library, I think the idea is "what, you think you're better than me?"

In fact I've started to think that this is the "What, you think you're better than me?" election.
posted by Sara C. at 9:53 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]


This is so fundamentally undemocratic that it kind of makes my skin crawl that we're talking about it like it's some great hail mary option.

I've seen this pop up a few times, and I think it's important to note that this is not the case. It's not undemocratic. It's the very essence of democracy - an elected system of checks and balances.

Republicans voted for their RNC delegates, and they voted for their RNC members. Those delegates and RNC members, chosen by a democratic process, voted on the rules that allow the RNC to remove a candidate. If the RNC removes the candidate, it will be by duly voted on rules, by duly elected representatives.
posted by corb at 9:53 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


"Name one sports team, university, publicly-held company, etc. that would accept a person like this as their standard bearer?"
...
I mean, Penn State comes to mind.


Go Ravens
posted by Greg Nog at 9:54 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Oh, good, Pence made a statement.
posted by mynameisluka at 9:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


>isn't the EC structured weird though? You vote for the Party, not the Party's candidates per se


Constitutionally, parties don't exist. So the electoral college itself doesn't have any such rules. But I guess it's possible that individual states may have laws to that effect? (The enforceability of any such laws would of course be an interesting question...)
posted by shenderson at 9:55 AM on October 8, 2016


"drunkdriving the republic into the nearest elm tree" I can't possibly favorite this enough! Comments like this ease the pain of the whole thing.
posted by Oyéah at 9:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


If any replacement couldn't get on the ballot in the following states they simply cannot possibly win.

Florida, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas or Virginia.

Even assuming Virginia and Michigan are almost certainly blue the current Clinton lead in safely blue states would make any of those a guaranteed 270 for Clinton. This isn't about winning it's about protecting the party over everything else.

But given the clownshow that was the Republican nomination process even if they could get Trump to step down (pro-tip not happening) who would be willing to get up there and get mercilessly pummeled by Clinton? You basically would have to recruit some retiring or already retired.

Maybe they could replace Trump with George Herbert Walker Bush as he still has 4 years of eligibility left.
posted by vuron at 9:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


> The corpse in the library, I think the idea is "what, you think you're better than me?"

Sure, but I haven't seen anything coming from the campaign to cause that sort of defensiveness. Are we still mad about the cookies?
posted by The corpse in the library at 9:55 AM on October 8, 2016


Someone has to lead this group called GOP so why not simply call them DEPLORABLE
posted by Postroad at 9:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


I want to hear Hillary Clinton use the phrase "Well, how does that grab ya?" to Donald Trump in the next debate, but she's better than that.
posted by Cookiebastard at 9:57 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


It's not undemocratic. It's the very essence of democracy - an elected system of checks and balances.

Thats a republic, not democracy. In fact, the electoral college is pretty fundamentally undemocratic and was designed by the framers of the republic not to be democratic.

Republicans voted for their RNC delegates, and they voted for their RNC members. Those delegates and RNC members, chosen by a democratic process, voted on the rules that allow the RNC to remove a candidate. If the RNC removes the candidate, it will be by duly voted on rules, by duly elected representatives.

Democracy doesn't mean "well look you theoretically approved of the fine print in the party bylaws when you checked R on your voter registration form".

No. Just no. I'm sorry corb, I have respect for you and all, but the Republicans made their bed, and now they need to lie in it. Trying to engineer an undemocratic election where the (addled by Republicans) Supreme Court or the (run by Republicans) Congress chooses the president is NOT HAPPENING and is not how this country works and would be the fucking death knell of anything like democracy.
posted by Sara C. at 9:57 AM on October 8, 2016 [29 favorites]




> Oh, good, Pence made a statement.

"As a husband and father..." because lord forbid I stand up for women who aren't related to me.
posted by The corpse in the library at 9:57 AM on October 8, 2016 [31 favorites]


At the very least, for anything like an 11th hour ballot switch to not result in anarchy, I'd want a compromise where Congress rubber stamps the SCOTUS justice of Obama's choice prior to anything else moving forward.
posted by Sara C. at 9:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


I want to hear Hillary Clinton say "uh, no, gimme the other hand" when they shake hands at the beginning.
posted by Namlit at 9:59 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


Oh, good, Pence made a statement.
"As a husband and father, I was offended by the words and actions described by Donald Trump in the eleven-year-old video released yesterday. I do not condone his remarks and cannot defend them. I am grateful that he has expressed remorse and apologized to the American people. We pray for his family and look forward to the opportunity he has to show what is in his heart when he goes before the nation tomorrow night."
posted by cashman at 9:59 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I also look forward to Trump showing what is in his heart when he goes before the nation.
posted by vbfg at 9:59 AM on October 8, 2016 [22 favorites]


There's no asterisk. Clinton's been hammering at his gross misogyny all through her campaign, and set the stage for this coup de grace with Machado. Trump's campaign didn't implode. It was deliberately destroyed.
posted by Slap*Happy at 10:00 AM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]


John Thune: Donald Trump should withdraw and Mike Pence should be our nominee effective immediately.

All the Johnnies come running lately.

Notice the difference between "I won't vote for Trump because he is a horrible person" and "Trump should leave so we can win".

Everything happening today is the later. There's no reason that this should've been what broke the dam, other than Republicans finally started reading the polls after the first debate, and this was the next, last opportunity to try and save the party and their Supreme Court.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:00 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


If some man is a single orphan, does that mean that he would find these remarks about women fine? It's really strange that everyone must mention how they know a woman. Literally every person was birthed by one.
posted by Trifling at 10:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [43 favorites]


Replacing Trump isn't undemocratic, it's just a waste of time. Nobody's going to care much about the technicality of whether Trump was on the ticket in the states he can still be taken off the ballot. I understand why one might want to "send a message" that the GOP is better than Trump, but the difference between this particular embarrassment and the many thousands of others that they had no problem with is only a difference of degree, not a difference in kind. He was always a misogynist and a creep, and that was visible to anyone who didn't try to avoid seeing it. Wasting time trying to get him off the ballot just takes resources away from trying to keep Hillary from having a governing majority in both congresses. But, hey, if that's how they want to play it... "please proceed", I guess?
posted by tonycpsu at 10:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]


Oh snap that tweet that winna linked to is a mike drop moment
posted by vuron at 10:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


I have a friends wedding to attend to tomorrow. I don't know if we'll end up watching the debate in the bar at the reception, but I could see that happening.

I'm very excited to see tomorrow's New Trump.
posted by mrzarquon at 10:02 AM on October 8, 2016


> Pence made a statement.

"as a husband and a father . . ."

Empathy just isn't conservatives' strong suit I guess.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 10:02 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Anyone else seeing women on facebook starting to use cats as their profile pics?
posted by Cookiebastard at 10:03 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]


Empathy is not a family value republicans have ever considered important.
posted by winna at 10:03 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


My bet for 2020, if the Republican Party survives, is Governor Nikki Haley. Anyone even a smidge tainted by Trump is permanently done (even Cruz and Ryan). Kasich will survive this, but he lacks the mojo or whatever needed for a Presidential candidate, always has.

And while the rest of the menacing clowns are dealing with the fallout from Make America Grope Again, Haley is busy dealing with a literal hurricane in an extremely competent and impressive manner (perhaps better than I've ever seen an elected official handle a natural disaster).

Haley comin', yo.
posted by sallybrown at 10:03 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]


1. The tape didn't surprise me at all. It's entirely in character.
2. It *does* surprise me a little that major "family values" evangelicals are defending him. I wonder what exactly it would take for them to criticize him.
posted by splitpeasoup at 10:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


don't grab my pussy.
posted by changeling at 10:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


I'm literally eating popcorn right now with a margarita on the side. My husband is in bed with a cold, it's storming outside, and so I can in all good consciousness sit here and read MetaFilter and Twitter all afternoon.

@MikeMurphy @realDonaldTrump calling emergency mtg in NYC of his top advisors to plot strategy to create new image. Mtg is 3pm today, at Scores..

@SopanDeb Conway just walked into Trump Tower, didn't take questions. That's after Giuliani and Christie.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:05 AM on October 8, 2016 [17 favorites]


How are future grade school textbooks going to report on this? Probably not by mentioning the p-word at all.

A lot of these people will vote for anyone if he's a white male Republican. Even if he was a RealDoll, robot, or cardboard cutout. Anything else does not matter whatsoever. If Trump was raping women on the White House lawn while shooting PoC in the head, it wouldn't matter. Or what acb said about them voting for a General Butt Naked.

Also, yeah, he's right, you can get away with almost anything if you're famous.

Has someone started making an October Surprise advent calendar/list of scandals yet?

It doesn't matter if you drop a news bomb Friday night or not, it will still go off just as bad as if it was Monday morning now.

I can't wait to see SNL tonight.

My mom (not voting for him, but is still getting stuff in the mail) got sent a Trump sticker. Anyone have suggestions as to what I can do with it?
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:05 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm a freaking housewife and I don't understand that perspective.
I think it's generational, and also that my mom was in a fairly specific social space where she made more traditional decisions but knew a fair number of women who didn't. Think of my mom as one of the secretaries in Mad Men who knew Peggy and Joan but didn't become Peggy or Joan, largely because she decided that raising her kids was more important than advancing in her career. My mom actually was one of the secretaries in Mad Men (publishing, not advertising, but same time and same basic idea) before she got her teaching degree and became a high-school teacher. And she felt like those women sneered at her, literally: she would bump into them and tell them she was teaching high school, and they would make a face and say something snide about how they didn't realize that smart women still chose to do that.

I can't even wrap my head around this, but I'm also a product of a really different time and place, and my feminism is really different from the feminism that my mom encountered in the '60s, '70s and '80s. And she basically says as much: it's different for people my age, and she thinks that feminists my age are much less judgmental. And that's probably true, but I also think she should get over these 30+-year-old hurts, which is probably not something I should say to her.
Are we still mad about the cookies?
Yes. She is literally still mad about the cookies.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:06 AM on October 8, 2016 [56 favorites]


This is the worst possible timing in terms of my actually studying for my exam, which is coming up very rapidly. I think I am literally addicted at this point.
posted by peacheater at 10:06 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


I watched the video, went shaky with nausea and anger, and immediately went to Hillary's site to donate. I want every Republican down every ticket to feel uneasy for the next month. Hell, for the next 50 years. I have never been more on board with anything political (and I loved the hell out of Obama, twice). This November needs to be scorched earth; an apocalyptic referendum on everything the GOP has let fester in their party. Let's do this. It's time.
posted by erinfern at 10:07 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]


I wonder what exactly it would take for them to criticize him.

I'm not even kidding here: I think Democrats would have to agree to outlaw abortion and gay marriage and repeal all hate crimes legislation. If they can't win on those topics, they are going to take everybody else down with them.
posted by Sequence at 10:07 AM on October 8, 2016


I'm feeling gloomy this morning because none of this matters. If you are a single-issue (or few-issue) anti-choice voter, this is a bit awkward because of the crude wording but it's still fine, it's entirely fine, because self-identified powerful white men must maintain control of women and, more specifically, access to their vaginas. It doesn't matter how evangelical you are, the fact is men have been empowered by God to own that access, and defending that right is absolutely critical at any cost. Even the guns thing is kind of a smokescreen, because you're not supposed to talk about grabbing pussy in public, so guns ("guns", and not in the "muscular arm" sense) make a nice dogwhistle.

The GOP could replace Trump with an actual supernaturally flaming goat tomorrow and those people for whom this is the actual entirety of their theopolitical philosophy will vote for it and continue to talk out the sides of their mouths about "two evils".
posted by Lyn Never at 10:07 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


Bookmark: self-care is important
posted by infinitewindow at 10:08 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


We pray for his family and look forward to the opportunity he has to show what is in his heart when he goes before the nation tomorrow night.

I hope he means that literally.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:08 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


Thats a republic, not democracy. In fact, the electoral college is pretty fundamentally undemocratic and was designed by the framers of the republic not to be democratic.

I apologize if I misunderstood you - I thought you were talking about the system of representative democracy that we have here in the United States, and that underscores most of our laws. You're right, here we do not have direct democracy in really any aspect of our government.

But I think that the duly elected and representative RNC choosing a new candidate, would be in line with the process of American democracy if they replaced him, and I hope we can pressure them into it.
posted by corb at 10:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm worried that the historical significance of the election of the first female president is going to be overshadowed by some other historical firsts.

We were never going to get a clean win. We have bloodied ourselves fighting for every last recognition of our rights we've ever achieved. We're going to come through this covered in mud and Donald's crap, but we're still going to win. That just makes victory even sweeter, to me.
posted by sallybrown at 10:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [83 favorites]


Agreed, peacheater. I have to work this weekend, and instead I'm guzzling sweet, delicious schadenfreude.
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 10:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


It was somewhere in the last thread that polling from Ohio where 40% of Trump supporters felt that generic male candidate would be better qualified to be president than generic female candidate.

The idea that the Republican Party can field a "look how progressive we are" candidate successfully seems dubious. Considering any potentially nominee would have to get past the shitshow that is the Republican nominating process which in almost inevitably skewed towards selecting old, white, rich dude the idea that Haley could thread that needle seems totally implausible.

In case you actually think the Republican Party is going to do some soul-searching over this election I can assure you the answer is no. Romney got beaten soundly in 2012 and strategists suggested that they needed to grow the tent but instead the Republicans of 2016 nominated Trump.
posted by vuron at 10:10 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


Have you guys heard about Donald Trump's 2005 offensive comments? That's not a year it's just an integer
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:10 AM on October 8, 2016 [192 favorites]


But I think that the duly elected and representative RNC choosing a new candidate, would be in line with the process of American democracy if they replaced him, and I hope we can pressure them into it.

Just because it may be technically legally possible does not mean that Trump's ardent supporters will roll over and take it. They will revolt if this is done. That's not a better option for the RNC than just taking one on the chin and trying to regroup afterwards.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


I hope he means that literally.

"Be brave. Tell her the truth. Open your heart."
posted by howfar at 10:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


Corb, the Republicans anointing the President of their choice is NOT democratic and the more you say that it is the less respect I have for you.

I get that you never wanted Trump, but you don't get to destroy the country just because you wish that other people in your political party had bothered to google the guy before voting for him.
posted by Sara C. at 10:12 AM on October 8, 2016 [29 favorites]


"f they didn't want to have him then they should've thought about the consequences beforehand. Personal responsibility."
posted by Oyéah at 10:13 AM on October 8, 2016 [49 favorites]


Also, yeah, he's right, you can get away with almost anything if you're famous.

He was not kidding when he said he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose any supporters. He has been coddled all his life and he has gotten away with more shit than we will ever know. It takes some hubris to run for President knowing a) You can never release your taxes, b) you've stiffed thousands of people, c) you have declared bankruptcy 6 times, d) you have cheated on your wives multiple times, e) you have groped and harassed many women, and f) you haven't a clue as to how actual government works or the real responsibilities of the President.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:13 AM on October 8, 2016 [92 favorites]


Just because it may be technically legally possible does not mean that Trump's ardent supporters will roll over and take it. They will revolt if this is done.

Oh yeah, if you thought I was saying this could be done without a full-on Republican civil war, that is definitely not the case. This would leave the GOP in flames for the next year. But it could be done, and I think it's necessary that it be done.
posted by corb at 10:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]


I'm about to go grocery shopping, and I literally just added popcorn to my list in preparation for tomorrow's debate.

I cannot wait to see the first polls which reflect the groping comments and Trump's abysmal performance in the second debate (yes, I'm assuming that he will fare at least as badly as he did in the first). I guess we'll have to wait until end-of-next-week-ish for that, but I have great expectations.

I made myself a lovely meal to take the edge off the first debate. I've been thinking about what to do for Election Day. I may take the day after off work. I'm debating whether to find a friendly bar to watch the returns, or to stay at home and spend all day making the kitchen smell delicious. Either way, I'm putting serious thought into shopping for the morning-after breakfast – because I could be celebrating, or I could be traumatized. What brunch dishes are suitable for both parties and funerals?

Food is my anti-drug for coping with the home stretch. Scotch is my actual drug. I'm taking a few weeks off from weed, because I'm afraid I'll just have a panic attack.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 10:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


It takes some hubris to run for President knowing...

For fucking real, like I can't even count the times I've been like "hm I wonder if I could be an alderman given that I'm pretty sure I've talked about dropping acid on metafilter"
posted by Greg Nog at 10:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [82 favorites]


It takes some hubris to run for President knowing...

This is a man who thinks hubris, bathos and arrogance were D'Artagnan's mates.
posted by howfar at 10:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [39 favorites]


Oh, good, Pence made a statement.

I view this as a direct threat to Trump. If Trump doesn't come to the debate tomorrow night ready to humble himself like no one ever has before, Pence is going make a move, perhaps drop out.
posted by sallybrown at 10:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


SecretLifeofGravy: yeah, and that nobody seems to care about any of the above and that he could still win.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Well, at least he has the Bloviator Holding Court at the End of the Bar vote locked up...
posted by jim in austin at 10:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh yeah, if you thought I was saying this could be done without a full-on Republican civil war, that is definitely not the case. This would leave the GOP in flames for the next year. But it could be done, and I think it's necessary that it be done.

I meant revolt with guns.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:18 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]




@PhilipRucker A source close to Trump camp told me Pence and his team are “absolutely apoplectic,” "melting down” and "inconsolable.”

He is going to have to quit but it is too late to save his political career. Maybe he can go back to talk show host if he is lucky.

For fucking real, like I can't even count the times I've been like "hm I wonder if I could be an alderman given that I'm pretty sure I've talked about dropping acid on metafilter"


I know, right? I mean I would never run for office because I ran away from my husband and had to leave my daughter behind. I figure that shit would kill any chance I had of running for dog catcher.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:19 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


I want to hear Hillary Clinton say "uh, no, gimme the other hand" when they shake hands at the beginning.

She should just put her hand over her heart Muslima-style and avoid all physical contact. And she should make it a point to deliberately wriggle away from any kind of back pat at the end.
posted by Burhanistan at 10:19 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


For fucking real, like I can't even count the times I've been like "hm I wonder if I could be an alderman given that I'm pretty sure I've talked about dropping acid on metafilter"

RIGHT?! "It might be cool to run for school board when I'm older but what if they find my years-old dirty fanfic and read it on the local news? Guess I better not!"
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]


I think it is important to not conflate disenfranchisement of Republican voters with respect to the decisions of political parties, which are for better or worse the mediating institutions of democracy as practiced in the United States, with disenfranchisement writ large. Likewise, I think it is important to not conflate quote-unquote civil war within the Republican Party with actual civil war.
posted by AndrewInDC at 10:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


So regardless of whether replacing Trump via the electoral college is democratic, can they actually do that WHILE he is refusing to resign? Like, if on November 9th, Trump is all YEAH WE WON can the rest be like "Nope, it's Ryan!" And why would they? They only want to ditch Trump because he can't win.
posted by instamatic at 10:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Anyone who doesn't want Trump to become president is free to vote and campaign against him. Calls for him to be replaced are 100% self-serving and have nothing to do with him being a deplorable candidate, only an unelectable one.

It's only "necessary" to replace him if people believe that the GOP should still be able to win an election even after supporting a racist for months and months and months and millions of votes for him.
posted by kiltedtaco at 10:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [79 favorites]


>plot strategy to create new image

Starting tomorrow, he'll be the proto-fascist racist misogynist plutocrat you could have a beer with.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 10:21 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]


Trump is a nasty social disease that Pence's political career, just picked up. He thought if he just did it once, maybe went in halfway he could get away with it...
posted by Oyéah at 10:21 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


I've been reading old engineering documents recently, and the numbering of each complete thought and clause in them reminds me of fascinating Twitter-based journalism and critiques, like this and others throughout the election cycle posts. I would not be surprised to find that among a certain subset of conservative engineer-types, reading chains of reason numbered like this is more effective in opening their minds to other viewpoints than reading a wall-o'-words essay with the same exact text.

Twitter forces conciseness but has adapted to long-form persuasion in novel ways, even as its most infamous user clings to Sad! rhetoric.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:21 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


The latest from Ryan
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 10:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


@PhilipRucker A source close to Trump camp told me Pence and his team are “absolutely apoplectic,” "melting down” and "inconsolable.”

@PhilipRucker Perhaps he should step down, go back to Indiana and plan a funeral for the stillbirth of his political career.
posted by sallybrown at 10:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [82 favorites]


Starting tomorrow, he'll be the proto-fascist racist misogynist plutocrat you could have a beer wine tasting spoons with.
posted by Talez at 10:23 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


MSNBC has on a Jaleisa McQueen who is saying she still "absolutely supports Donald Trump" and is attacking Hillary Clinton over her emails.

WHO ARE THESE WOMEN AND WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:23 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


If a party nominates a horrible candidate, they should lose the election. End of story.
posted by kiltedtaco at 10:23 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


Man, 2016 ...
Mother Teresa being made a saint, Trump at the White House door ...
Death and Conquest, that's two of the Four Horsemen, can Famine and War be far behind?
posted by Chitownfats at 10:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


If only there was a story or song about a snake that could help Mike Pence make sense of the situation he got himself into
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [56 favorites]


RNC rules counsel Jim Bopp tells RCP "it is impossible" to replace Trump on the ticket at this stage "and it would be politically suicidal"

Bopp says even if Trump withdrew, RNC would need to meet to pick replacement, taking week or two. Meanwhile ballots are finalized/being cast

Bopp says Rs calling for Trump to drop out are making a political calculation. But "to urge creation of vacancy is to urge party suicide"

posted by showbiz_liz at 10:24 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


MSNBC interviewing Trump dead-enders is... almost enough to make me feel sympathy for them. Almost.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:24 AM on October 8, 2016


Man, 2016 ...
Mother Teresa being made a saint, Trump at the White House door ...
Death and Conquest, that's two of the Four Horsemen, can Famine and War be far behind?


Plus Bowie and Prince died. Shit fucking sucks.
posted by Talez at 10:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


I have this fantasy that after losing the White House, the Senate, and because this is fantasy, the House, Trump, who always, always, has to come out the winner in his own mind, spends the rest of his life claiming that was his goal all along - the ruin the Republican party.
posted by COD at 10:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


@Schwarzenegger 11 minutes ago As proud as I am to label myself a Republican, there is one label that I hold above all else - American. My full statement:
posted by howfar at 10:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [30 favorites]


My bet for 2020, if the Republican Party survives, is Governor Nikki Haley.

I was having a conversation with friends the other day, including dyed-in-the-wool conservatives who have grown disillusioned with the crazification of the GOP, and one regretted that he couldn't vote for Haley to be the first female president. Could she get through a primary in 2020 as the brown woman who took down the dixieflag from the Columbia statehouse grounds? [shrug]

On the switcheroo: I sympathise with corb, but I'm with Sara C. here. While the RNC clearly has the power to make its own rules, the fundamental principle of the modern American presidential campaign is that it goes on for an eternity, with multiple stopping points along the way, and overriding all those decisions right at the end... just won't do.
posted by holgate at 10:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Anyone who doesn't want Trump to become president is free to vote and campaign against him. Calls for him to be replaced are 100% self-serving and have nothing to do with him being a deplorable candidate, only an unelectable one.

It's only "necessary" to replace him if people believe that the GOP should still be able to win an election even after supporting a racist for months and months and months and millions of votes for him.


Exactly, so let's please stop pretending that there's anything noble about being a "any republican but trump" partisan.

the enemy of my enemy may still be my enemy.
posted by winna at 10:26 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]




Governor Nikki Haley

Nimrata Nikki Randhawa getting through the GOP primaries?

Piyush Jindal didn't even make it through the first round.
posted by Talez at 10:29 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


The Republican Party deserves to be punished for Trump. Every. Single. Republican. Not endorsing him was never enough. The only moral and rational choice has always been to vote Clinton. Straight D all the way down the ticket.

In this swirling cesspool of an election the only choices are sink (Trump) or swim (Clinton). Those who think there is a life preserver or life jacket (Johnson or Stein) are not facing reality.
posted by blairsyprofane at 10:29 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


Obviously, at this late stage, the GOP should be required to carry its nominee to term.

Coffee, coffee all over my smartphone.
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


I still like you, corb.
posted by roll truck roll at 10:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [46 favorites]


@Schwarzenegger 11 minutes ago As proud as I am to label myself a Republican, there is one label that I hold above all else - American. My full statement:

Nice tweet, but I would imagine he's already far enough from the Republican mindset to sway anyone with this statement.

I mean, his twitter image is of him standing in a sea of solar panels. How anti-GOP can you get?
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 10:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


Enjoy the debate tomorrow night, y'all. I'm out.

@Joshua Green: Trump source on debate strategy: "She’s as much an attacker of women as Bill. We’re fully loaded. She's gonna have to confront her accusers"
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Nimrata Nikki Randhawa getting through the GOP primaries?

Piyush Jindal didn't even make it through the first round.


Naw, let's not do this.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [37 favorites]


@TheShrillest GOP 2014: Marriage is between ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN, that's GOD'S design. GOP 2016: King David had 500 concubines what's the big deal

I sure hope Sean Hannity has to pay for that concubine remark
And I'm pretty sure that Sean Hannity has been one of Trump's concubines for a while.
posted by jeremias at 10:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


Piyush Jindal didn't even make it through the first round.

Because he has zero charisma, nothing in particular to recommend him, and, like Pence, had already burned all his bridges in his home state. Not because of his name, which is Bobby Jindal, anyway.
posted by Sara C. at 10:32 AM on October 8, 2016 [22 favorites]


WHO ARE THESE WOMEN AND WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM?

You know who they are-- they are women raised in the Patriarchy and brainwashed to believe that women are "different." Not inferior per se, just not on the same level with men. Sneaky. Manipulative. Catty. Weak. Prone to PMS mood swings. Ready to give everything up for the right man.

It breaks my heart how thoroughly steeped in the Patriarchal juice some of these poor souls are.

Speaking of which, what do you think is going through the mind of Kellyann Conway right now? Is she getting ready to bolt? Or is she going to try to ride out this storm? I am on tenterhooks because I can see her going either way. I think she has having an argument inside her head right now as to what would be best for her career. Fish or cut bait?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]


It's only "necessary" to replace him if people believe that the GOP should still be able to win an election even after supporting a racist for months and months and months and millions of votes for him.

I don't want to put words in corb's mouth, but I think her position is that dumping Trump from the ticket shouldn't be considered a Hail Mary option to win the presidency and save the downballot, because it would clearly mean Deplorable types would stay at home. It's about beginning the postmortem and the "truth and reconciliation" process within the GOP with a decisive act of repudiation before November 8th, instead of lapsing into the McConnell mode of rejectionism once the votes are counted.
posted by holgate at 10:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [50 favorites]


the duly elected and representative RNC choosing a new candidate, would be in line with the process of American democracy if they replaced him,

Meta-meta-meta democracy.
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:34 AM on October 8, 2016


Well, Bill Clinton issued a long, tearful apology, and all was forgiven, right?

Don't equivocate Trump's behavior with Bill Clinton's. Even Lewinsky never denied enthusiastically consenting and even actively pursuing Clinton. Clinton's sleaze wasn't even remotely on the same level of sexually evil behavior as sexually assaulting other people's spouses and feeling entitled to because you're "a star."
posted by saulgoodman at 10:34 AM on October 8, 2016 [50 favorites]


Yes, thank you, holgate - you said it perfectly.
posted by corb at 10:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]




So I am all but allergic to TV and am completely unfamiliar with the pundit classes. This latest craziness had me watching CNN and seeing that amazing panel last night where Ana Navarro lost her shit. Wow, do I have such deep pity for that Scottie Nell creature--what kind of nightmare-life scenario must have led her to be such a crazy misogynist lapdog. Maybe when this is all over we can set up some kind of deprogramming retreat center on womyn's land or something, for all the women who are going to self-destruct as a result of this monster.
posted by Sublimity at 10:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Phone banking milestone- first person I spoke to that has already voted. It's getting real!!!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:35 AM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]




Great clip of Jerry Springer explaining exactly why this tape made a difference when Trump's previous comments didn't.

Jerry Springer got olddddddddddd.
posted by Talez at 10:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


It's every space where men think they have impunity, public or private.

It's not, though. The belief that all men do this, that it's "normal", is causing a lot of harm. The very fact that he's talking about it like this is him trying to send a kind of "I'm in the club" signal. He wasn't lucky enough to have a role model to set him straight.

Even now, he probably doesn't believe that any other men are genuinely outraged; he probably thinks it's all fake, all acting, to impress someone or to get women's attention.

The fact that it's possible to feel sympathy for this, to understand it, doesn't at all reduce the harmfulness of it.

To me, it indicates a great need to communicate about reality, about the fact that most people do try to be sincere and do try to be kind to each other, to people who really don't have a sense of proportion about these things.
posted by amtho at 10:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [28 favorites]


Who says you would have to replace Trump with someone after he's dumped? Can't the GOP just forfeit?

I feel that's the least wrong thing for them to do at this point and it would actually be an action that shows that they admit they were completely wrong about this.
posted by FJT at 10:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]




As a husband and a father is like trying to defend your racism by claiming that some of your best friends are black.
posted by humanfont at 10:38 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]


Remember when Hillary Clinton apologized for calling half of Trump supporters "deplorables"?

Good times.
posted by chavenet at 10:38 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


Getting the word "deplorable" into the official record and everyone's heads was a net plus for HRC.
posted by argybarg at 10:40 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]




Can we PLEASE link to the actual videos and not twitter feeds? They don't work half the time and it's incredibly frustrating kthx

What's Different About This One:
1) Smoking gun video
2) News talking heads shouting "pussy!" at each other
3) GOP on the run forrealz
4) It's breaking minds of the olds who will retreat into what their parents would have done

And finally, let's hope this starts the march of the many, many victims from out of the woodwork; as dances_with_sneetches said in the last thread,

"Orange Is The New Cosby"
posted by petebest at 10:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]


Not sure if this has been posted...

Only like 4 times.

In other news: Kasich has made an official non-endorsement.
posted by dis_integration at 10:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


The belief that all men do this, that it's "normal", is causing a lot of harm...To me, it indicates a great need to communicate about reality, about the fact that most people do try to be sincere and do try to be kind to each other

Well no, actually, most women have experienced groping or assault or harassment, so this very much is the reality and we should talk about it.
posted by acidic at 10:43 AM on October 8, 2016 [30 favorites]


Not sure if this has been posted...

Only like 4 times.


Gets better each time.

(It's the Grabsdem Flag)
posted by chavenet at 10:44 AM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]


@Schwarzenegger 11 minutes ago As proud as I am to label myself a Republican, there is one label that I hold above all else - American. My full statement:


...SCHWARZENEGGER. Arnold Schwarzenegger, serial assaulter of multiple women. He is actually known to have actually done all of the things Trump spoke about, he was known to have done them when he ran for governor, he was known to have done them when he won. his reasoning in his statement is carefully nonspecific, so he remembers his fun times even if the rest of the country doesn't.

How long's it going to take for people approvingly quoting him to forget about Trump ever doing this, too? A couple years? Four, five?
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:44 AM on October 8, 2016 [40 favorites]


shauna@goldengateblond: Meanwhile, at Trump Tower . . .
posted by bibliowench at 10:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


It's about beginning the postmortem and the "truth and reconciliation" process within the GOP with a decisive act of repudiation before November 8th

Maybe, but the problem comes after November 8th.

If corb's solution is that Trump steps down, but his name stays on the ballot, and probably nobody votes for him because lololololol hahaha just nope all around, great! Yeah! (Although, isn't that what's going to happen anyway no matter whether Trump stays or goes?)

If corb's solution is that Trump steps down and is replaced by a freshly appointed Republican ticket, and electors are free to be "faithless" and translate a vote for Trump as a vote for whoever the Republican candidate is, no. No fucking way.

It's really disingenuous here to assume that the Republicans (including corb) haven't realized that they control the entire legislative branch right now, and that they've crippled the Supreme Court. Call me cynical, but I just can't believe that any Republican suggesting that we leave it to faithless electors and the "system of checks and balances" to decide doesn't actually mean that they believe the Republicans should be allowed to destroy the democratic underpinning of this country, thwart the intentions behind the Consititution, and crown the POTUS of their choice.

That said, I feel like it's more realistic that Clinton wins with a wide enough margin that none of this actually matters. But I see you, you fucking assholes. I see you.
posted by Sara C. at 10:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [48 favorites]


I honestly thought that 2008 would be the most exciting and dramatic election I'd get to see in my lifetime.

Remember when we thought that nominating Sarah Palin for VP was about the nuttiest thing that could happen in a presidential election? She looks like Gandhi right about now.
posted by lalex at 10:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [36 favorites]


Yeah, it's kind of telling that Schwarzenegger doesn't say why he's not voting Republican.
posted by AndrewInDC at 10:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Well no, actually, most women have experienced groping or assault or harassment,

Most women having experienced those humiliations is not the same thing as most men having committed them. Not at all.
posted by saulgoodman at 10:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [30 favorites]


(meanwhile, outside the US, the UK parts of my twitter feed just exploded after news that despite protests, Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn spoke at a Socialist Workers Party-hosted event earlier today. To people outside the hard left, that party is probably best known for their "we don't believe in bourgeois justice, repeated accusations of rape should be handled by the rapist's friends in the central committee" stance (Google "comrade delta" for more on those deplorables)).
posted by effbot at 10:47 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Everybody does it is exactly what abusers say and want their victims to believe.
posted by saulgoodman at 10:47 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]




It's about beginning the postmortem and the "truth and reconciliation" process within the GOP with a decisive act of repudiation before November 8th

On Nov 8 the entire country will have an opportunity for repudiation and I think we deserve that opportunity. Creating an ridiculous constitutional crisis to override the votes cast in the primaries in order to send a mixed-up message (why would voting for Pense be sending a message of repudiation against someone he signed up to run with?) makes no sense compared to the obvious simple solution, which is defeating Trump in the election. Voting for Hillary repudiates Trump, done.

In future elections R's will be able to sort out their own "truth and reconciliation" by nominating someone who is not horrible and who receives a plurality of primary votes.
posted by kiltedtaco at 10:48 AM on October 8, 2016 [22 favorites]


I don't really think Not All Men, Yes All Women is a useful derail right now.
posted by instamatic at 10:48 AM on October 8, 2016 [29 favorites]



Maybe when this is all over we can set up some kind of deprogramming retreat center on womyn's land or something

posted by Sublimity at 1:35 PM on October 8

I have had the same thought but not just for women, for the Trumpkins and Tea Party people and the other Republicans who have been actively hurt by Republican policies.

Let's take taxes. Sure, Grover Norguist wants a Federal Government so small it can be drwoned in a bath tub but for the middle class and the lower class we really need an intervention to teach people that taxes are beneficial. I'm picturing rehab classes where people sit in a circle and have to imagine life without an EPA or a CDC or roads or Medicare or Social Security or Border Control or Coast Guard, etc. We need propaganda, I guess. More ads about what your taxes are doing. When people find out that Billionaires are not paying any taxes we don't want them saying "Good for them," we want them saying "What the hell! That's outrageous."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:48 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


As expected Hitler isn't taking the news well.
posted by humanfont at 10:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [17 favorites]


To me, it indicates a great need to communicate about reality, about the fact that most people do try to be sincere and do try to be kind to each other, to people who really don't have a sense of proportion about these things.
posted by amtho at 10:37 AM on October 8 [+] [!]


A whole bunch of women are saying this happens all the time. It doesn't have to be all men to implicate enough men--not just the worst of them, but the ones who play along, the ones who defend their friends because they were just joking, the ones who stay silent.

And it doesn't absolve women who do the same either, though those women are obviously in a different position. I've definitely laughed things off because I thought I had to for my job, or because I didn't know how to respond and it was definitely safer to avoid confrontation, or any number of things that really just don't apply to men in the same way.

I don't know if my exposure to men has been uniquely bad, or uniquely honest, or some combination. When I was younger I was femme-y and hot, and I got treated like a young, attractive, vulnerable woman. Then I worked in male dominated industries, and got that flavor of bullshit. And then I was out as a lesbian, and I got a new flavor, which was "let's bond by talking about women." And now, in my mid-thirties, I no longer have close male friends because all of them, at some time or another, got their misogyny on without realizing it, and without realizing they were expecting me to play along.

I really hope that's not representative. But that's been my experience. And like the POC in these threads who can't approach white people without a guarded, self-protective suspicion any longer, that's...pretty much how I feel about men, at this point.

Idk totally know where I'm going with this, except to say that it's not really enough to not be one of the bad ones. I just don't have the energy to not be believed anymore. I have too much I want to do in my life to spend any more energy trying to explain things to men with the hope that maybe this time it won't suck.

Of course not all men. But it doesn't really matter if it's still enough men. And that leaves me in this terrible place of keeping all men at a certain distance (which sucks, because there are a lot of dudes I really, really like, and historically I've clicked with men more easily than I have with women, and even if I didn't it would still just suck), and I don't know if there's anything to be done about it, at this point.

It fucking sucks.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [52 favorites]


I'm torn here. On the one hand, as a man, I feel that it's very important not to distance myself from sexual violence, because it is the problem of all men.

On the other hand, staying silent when other men say "all men say that behind closed doors," but I never have and never would put up with it – I don't feel right about that. I feel like I'm silently vouching for their bullshit if I don't speak up.

I'm 46 years old. I have never heard men speak like that when women are not around. I will grant you that I self-select; I don't want to be around men who I think would speak like that. But that's the point. There is a version of manhood that is not total garbage, and I take great care for my son to know that, for everyone to know that. My overwhelming impulse is to say "you are on your own here. You do not speak for me."
posted by argybarg at 10:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [89 favorites]


Most women having experienced those humiliations is not the same thing as most men having committed them. Not at all.

Are we seriously doing #NotAllMen today? Really?
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [28 favorites]


"grope, verb \ˈgrōp\

Popularity: Top 20% of words

Simple Definition of grope

: to touch (someone) in an unwanted and unexpected sexual way"

So the "softening" of "Grab them by the pussy" into "Grope" carries with it the denotation that it's unwanted and unexpected. News outlets?! Stay sharp here.
posted by petebest at 10:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Most women having experienced those humiliations is not the same thing as most men having committed them. Not at all.

That's true. But as a man who has not done these things, this conversation is now happening on the biggest stage of all and it's a powerful moment. It's happening internationally too. If a wider discussion of these issues are the first stages of the presidency of the first female president of the most powerful country in the world that is going to resonate.

Meanwhile, Donald needs to be hounded with these questions:

1) Do you still grab pussy?

2) When did you stop grabbing pussy?

3) What is the moment that made you change your mind about grabbing pussy?
posted by vbfg at 10:52 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]


Sadly, not even this.
posted by infini at 10:53 AM on October 8, 2016


I'm 46 years old. I have never heard men speak like that when women are not around.

That's a very unusual experience. My partner, who is 67, says it happens "all the time."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:54 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Republicans still supporting Trump after this should have their feet held to the fire, repeatedly.

Forget "still;" support of Trump was always unforfivable. Republicans engaged in a decades-long project to make "liberal" a dirty word. Republicans tar Hillary Clinton with myths that go back to the 90s; as mentioned in the other thread, Republicans are also still obsessed over Saul Alinsky.

Republicans were the Party of Trump long before his nomination. To this day, Paul Ryan is still selling a supply-side budget full of magic asterisks and Mitch McConnell is refusing to even grant a SCOTUS nominee a hearing, let alone a vote.

The American people need and deserve to be reminded, repeatedly, how radical and reactionary the Republicans have become. They are conserving nothing except the privileges of the wealthy. Trump represents them perfectly; their only problem has ever been that he says the quiet parts loud.
posted by Gelatin at 10:54 AM on October 8, 2016 [27 favorites]


When did you stop grabbing pussy?

Who'd have thunk that the 2016 election would be the moment we figured out how to unload "When did you stop beating your wife?" as a question?
posted by Sara C. at 10:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


Speaking of which, what do you think is going through the mind of Kellyann Conway right now?

"Good thing I'm being paid up front in cash..."
posted by mikelieman at 10:57 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


NYTimes Lewd Donald Trump Tape Is a Breaking Point for Many in the G.O.P.
Mr. Trump, in a brief telephone interview on Saturday, shrugged off the calls to leave the presidential race, saying he would “never drop out of this race in a million years.”

“I haven’t heard from anyone saying I should drop out, and that would never happen, never happen,” Mr. Trump said. “That’s not the kind of person I am. I am in this until the end.”

Far from sounding shaken, Mr. Trump insisted that he believed he could still win the presidency in November.

“Oh yeah, we can win — we will win,” he said. “We have tremendous support. I think a lot of people underestimate how loyal my supporters are.”

Mr. Trump said he was going ahead with preparations for Sunday night’s debate and that he had not decided whether to make a public appearance later Saturday or on Sunday morning to address his remarks about women. He added that he did not feel rattled by the fierce criticism over his comments.

“I’m doing fine — focusing on the debate, getting ready, focusing on talking to voters,” Mr. Trump said. “I’ll be fine.”
He hasn't heard from anyone saying he should drop out?! Well maybe he needs to take his fingers out of his ears and stop screaming LA LA La. I can almost believe he is doing "fine" because he is a belligerent little asshole but I don't believe he is preparing for the debate other than to try and come up with a strategy for answering "Mr. Trump why should we elect such a creep as yourself?"
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:57 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Take the Not All Men somewhere else, please. Just for one freaking day. We live in a culture completely saturated with the objectification of women. Have you paid money or your attention to a corporation that uses a woman's body or sexual objectification to sell you a product? Think about it that way if you have to. Just take the #notallmen somewhere else today.
posted by sallybrown at 10:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [100 favorites]


Sara C. -- I think in practice, you'd have Trump on some state ballots, Pence (or Republican To Be Named Later) on others, and court cases rumbling for the next month.

Some GOP types like Patrick Ruffini are floating scenarios with ballot changes and faithless electors that could push HRC below 270 and send the result to the House, but I don't see where those EVs come from.

Basic stuff like field operations -- already outsourced to state parties, and stretched thin -- will implode if Trump gets bumped. He still controls millions in the campaign bank account, and even if the Adelsons and Kochs open their wallets, it's too late to make a difference.
posted by holgate at 10:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


[I don't think this is a great time for, but more to the point am certain that this is very much not a good start to, a general argument about the distribution of shitty sexual behavior by men. Please let's step away from that in here for now.]
posted by cortex at 10:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


He hasn't heard from anyone saying he should drop out?!

It does seem like he only got his phone back this morning. He's probably not caught up.
posted by AndrewInDC at 10:59 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Speaking of which, what do you think is going through the mind of Kellyann Conway right now?

"There are only 30 days left".

Actually I expect she'll quit soon.
posted by dis_integration at 10:59 AM on October 8, 2016


I'm 46 years old. I have never heard men speak like that when women are not around.

That's a very unusual experience. My partner, who is 67, says it happens "all the time."


20 years is a long time in attitudes, I guess. I'm 49 years old, and the other guys in the locker room aren't misogynistic assholes. Maybe teh olds act different.
posted by mikelieman at 10:59 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


Speaking of which, what do you think is going through the mind of Kellyann Conway right now?

How much her book deal is going to be worth. The amount that I, for one, am willing to pay for a copy goes up every day.
posted by lalex at 11:00 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


[Started on this before Cortex's comment above, but I think the main part of this comment isn't about how common problematic behavior is, but rather about why it should be addressed even if it's not common.]

Well no, actually, most women have experienced groping or assault or harassment, so this very much is the reality and we should talk about it.

Let's say a woman grows up going to public schools, riding public transpotation, working in public-facing jobs, participating in a sport or an artistic endeavor -- how many men would she encounter in potentially private or semi-private or too-crowded-to-see circumstances? If she were assaulted three times -- most aren't, I think half or slightly more than half of women are assaulted once -- that's still a _minority_ of men doing this.

Plus, the men who commit these things aren't just doing it one time. One bad apple can seriously harm many, many women.

There are two huge reasons to continue to work very hard on this issue, though:

1) The harm caused by a single assault is much greater than a lot of people realize, and

2) We naturally overestimate the prominence of harmful or threatening behavior, so that it seems more "normal" than it actually is. Hearing about just a few incidents like this can make it _seem_ like it's normal, which can have a terrible influence on the behavior of men and the fear -- which is a harm in itself -- of women. We have to constantly counter this kind of thing with narratives which say "No, this is not normal. No, this is not OK. Most powerful people know that this is not OK and they don't do it, and if it does happen they recognize that it is wrong."

This is part of the reason that women having power is so important. They are more likely to recognize the great harm that is done, and are more likely to understand why it's important to prioritize the kind of communication in point #2.
posted by amtho at 11:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


If Pence does drop out, his replacement simply must be Michele Bachmann. It is what this election deserves.
posted by delfin at 11:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


That Downfall one is good. Maybe best ever (and we know there have been a lot).
posted by petebest at 11:01 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


Actually I expect she'll quit soon.

She hasn't tweeted a damn thing in 24 hours. She can reclaim what little of her self-respect she has remaining by bowing out now.
posted by Talez at 11:02 AM on October 8, 2016


Most women having experienced those humiliations is not the same thing as most men having committed them.

Here's the thing: most women have experienced sexual harrassment and humiliation because sexual harassers/rapists are serial offenders. See: Trump, Cosby, Savile, Hastert, Daniel Holzclaw, on and on. Whenever a case like this comes to light, numerous victims come forward. Numerous. Women are warned against the office or casting couch harasser because he's not going to single out one or two women for harassment or rape and leave everyone else alone. He's like that with everyone. It's a worldview of women as commodities that creates sexual harassment, rape, and child abuse.

Men who harass and rape don't have just one victim - much as child molesters don't have just one victim. You see that again and again - one victim comes forward, then it's a domino effect as others step up, and then you realize that this one man might have over a hundred victims!

Just like a minority of criminals are the ones committing a vast majority of the crimes, so it is with rapists and harassers. That's because it has nothing to do with the victims "asking for it" or "tempting" fate or any of that crap. It's a mindset that sees women as commodities, not actual people with actual autonomy that needs to be respected.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 11:03 AM on October 8, 2016 [45 favorites]


That Downfall one is good. Maybe best ever

Done by right-wing radio talker John Ziegler, of all people.
posted by holgate at 11:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Thanks, Rosie M. Banks. I think that's really important point, and probably affects the candidate's perceptions of reality too. Who knows what his role models did.
posted by amtho at 11:04 AM on October 8, 2016


My kid's school actually had a mass shooting threat from the creepy clown contingent, so I've been thinking about them a lot recently. And I've been waiting and waiting for an alt-right connection to surface. Surely I can't be the only person waiting to see if some of these clowns have pointy hoods, can I?

Wait, what, clowns? Actual creepy clowns, or metaphorical ones? As a Stephen King fan, I feel like I've failed to click on some important links.
posted by invincible summer at 11:04 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


@Schwarzenegger 11 minutes ago As proud as I am to label myself a Republican, there is one label that I hold above all else - American. My full statement:

Nice tweet, but I would imagine he's already far enough from the Republican mindset to sway anyone with this statement.


Also: it's the height of hypocrisy. There is strong evidence that the Gubernator assaulted women on set himself, and of course there's the whole thing where he slept with his child's nanny and had a child with her while married to Maria Shriver.

Of all the major Republican figures to disavow Trump, I rank Arnold pretty low.
posted by suelac at 11:05 AM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


Well, I'm not a man's man. I don't like guys who are man's man types. I admit it. I've lived in liberal enclaves, and I've worked in soft professions like journalism and elementary education.

So maybe I represent a minority experience. And if people want to say that that makes me irrelevant, so be it. But it does make me relevant to the argument that there is some sort of biological imperative to rape culture, that we might as well give up on the idea of men who can behave respectfully throughout their lives.

I'm not just talking about myself; I took a 3-hour road trip with a friend recently. He spent some time talking about his wife, and especially about how much she admires her. I admire my wife. If one of us had suddenly started talking about we need to grab some other woman in the pussy, there would've been a horrible silence and a feeling of disgust in the car.

I do not feel that men with basic humanity are always and everywhere a silent minority. We need each other.

This happens. Men do get to a place where they don't think of women as pure sexual meat. I want to share with my son that that feels good; that it makes for a better life to feel this way. I also want him to be prepared to meet the other kind of man, so he can let them know that he wants no part of their bullshit.

But if he hears in news reports that all men behave this way, and I stay silent, what does that say to him?
posted by argybarg at 11:06 AM on October 8, 2016 [55 favorites]


This notallmen stuff sounds awfully defensive. The problem isn't just 5% of serial aggressive offenders. The problem is the entire goddamn bell curve.

If you don't see this, but the women in your life do, you are not looking, because you don't have to. And maybe you should do some work to figure out what it is you're not seeing before you jump into a convo like this to notallmen all over the place.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:06 AM on October 8, 2016 [35 favorites]


Sorry, just saw the request from the mods. Feel free to delete this comment and my last one.
posted by argybarg at 11:06 AM on October 8, 2016


@chrislhayes: It is so revealing all these Republicans saying "I have a wife & daughter & mother" You don't know any Muslims? Any Mexican immigrants?"

Maybe they don't. But I did some research and found out an amazing fact:
Mexicans and Muslims have mothers too! And a very high percentage have daughters!
posted by msalt at 11:07 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


If she were assaulted three times -- most aren't

This is not just assault. This is my male boss staring at my chest when I spoke to him. This is my saying, "Oh, that girl Jill seems nice" and my male friend replying "Yeah, she would be so much cuter if she lost 15 pounds." This is my dad trying to pay me to lose weight. This is being flashed 4 times in the subway in the 4 summer months I lived in New York.

You are lying to yourself if you think this is not something that saturates daily interactions between men and women in this culture, or that it's something you've never witnessed.

As a white person I am honest enough to admit there have been so many times when I've sat by silently while that "off" person in my social circle or family or school has made a racist comment that the rest of us uncomfortably let slide by. I find it extraordinarily hard to believe that is not true with nearly every man reading this and sexism.
posted by sallybrown at 11:07 AM on October 8, 2016 [85 favorites]




Okay, but it's not cool to normalize Trump's horrific attitudes. It's also not cool to contribute to and reinforce the paranoia and hyper-vigilence PTSD sufferers have to live with on a daily basis to score cheap social and political points. Especially not when one of our major party candidates is a walking trigger himself.

Some of my Dem activist friends are worrying the GOP might pull a rope-a-dope play now forcing Trump to step down and running Pence as the lead instead. I don't think Trump's ego would let him step down though.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


"These comments are disturbing and inappropriate, there is simply no excuse for them." -- Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, who only recently endorsed Trump.

Sheesh, Ted, what are you waiting for, an engraved invitation? Bounce already! You're the smart one, right?
posted by petebest at 11:09 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


It's also not cool to contribute to and reinforce the paranoia and hyper-vigilence PTSD sufferers have to live with in a daily basis to score cheap social and political points.

It is not paranoia. Women in this thread are telling you what it's like to live and confront this on a daily basis.
posted by sallybrown at 11:10 AM on October 8, 2016 [65 favorites]


The point is that the candidate probably justifies his behavior to himself by believing that anyone would do the same if he had enough power and was not a "loser". The candidate is not correct.

This lack of understanding is indicative of a larger issue with how he, and others, understand the world. It's why education that addresses the different needs and perspectives of people from different parts of society is so important.

He has no idea that his personal insights are based on flawed data, and doesn't understand the utility of seeking out other data.
posted by amtho at 11:10 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


If she were assaulted three times -- most aren't, I think half or slightly more than half of women are assaulted once --

Think again. I am trying to say this nicely so it won't get deleted. I have been assaulted twice and whenever I'm asked about a history of sexual violence I say Never because I've never been raped, never been injured, and never feared for my life. I make an ideological point of calling those attacks "attacks" now, five and twenty years later, KNOWING that some people will get mad and decide I'm a liar or a joker once they hear the full stories and details. Compared to every woman I've ever known to talk to, nothing HAS happened. I am very nearly as lucky as they come.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:10 AM on October 8, 2016 [39 favorites]


Seriously, that you can talk about hypervigilance as something you get to try to overcome instead of as something that is still actually critical to your safety means that maybe you should take a seat.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:11 AM on October 8, 2016 [43 favorites]


It's cold comfort, but I'm the tiniest bit pleased that when this traveling horror show is finally over we'll have a scandal called Pussygate that will be attached to Republicans until the end of time.
posted by scantee at 11:13 AM on October 8, 2016 [26 favorites]


If corb's solution is that Trump steps down and is replaced by a freshly appointed Republican ticket, and electors are free to be "faithless" and translate a vote for Trump as a vote for whoever the Republican candidate is, no. No fucking way.

Yeah, I just don't think that way. Trump has done so much damage as a candidate. My desire for the US to be done with this national disaster goes so far deeper than my desire to have a democrat as the next president.

If it's impossible to replace him, then so be it. If there's any feasible legal ninjitsu to get him off of the ballot, then do it.
posted by roll truck roll at 11:13 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]




As found on my morning walk, these folks got the Halloween costume market cornered.
posted by mrzarquon at 11:14 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


See Schroedinger's rapist.

I feel it every day. It's not paranoia.
posted by Sophie1 at 11:14 AM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]


Yesterday, I was reading posts by women about creepy bosses staring at their chests and I realized: my mom is a very attractive woman with large breasts working in absolutely male-dominated fields, and I've heard her stories about professional misogyny (the best being the "if you were an engineer, you'd appreciate..." story), but I'd never heard her talk about the creepy shit. The assaults.

So I called her up. Hey Mom, love you, yeah, wtf Trump, hey so did this ever...?

Holy shit.

I'm glad I asked. Because now I know. My surprisometer, of course:

|o............................|

It hurt me to hear her say that she got inured to it. After a while, it stops being noteworthy.
posted by TheNewWazoo at 11:15 AM on October 8, 2016 [34 favorites]


It's hard to believe the notallmen when there are multiple dudes in the thread making high-larious jokes about what this scandal should be called once everything is done.
posted by winna at 11:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]


There’s no longer any way for Republicans to boot Donald Trump from the ballot (WaPo)

More than 34,000 Republican voters have already cast their ballots for the 2016 general election according to the U.S. Election Project, 8,000 of them in the battleground state of North Carolina and another 5,000 in Florida. Not all of those ballots were cast for Donald Trump, it's safe to assume, but it's more than likely that most of them were.

And that, in a nutshell, is why it's far too late for the Republican Party to dump Donald Trump from their ticket.

posted by petebest at 11:16 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Where have we seen this before? Oh, yeah.
posted by drlith at 11:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


If the Washington Post (a source I trust) says Trump can't be replaced at this late hour, then it looks like the Republican party is just going to have to face the music.

I can't believe nobody did any vetting/background checking of Trump before he was nominated. Either that or nobody thought that rape, or cheating on taxes, or losing $900 million dollars in bad investments really mattered! Either way, that shows a colossal carelessness or stupidity.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 11:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


To borrow something pointed out by John Rogers, do guys objectify women when women aren't around, rating them and saying they'd like to do them? Frequently. And that is locker room talk. (I'm not condoning it) Do guys boast about sexual assault of women who don't want it? In my experience? Never.

And one terrifying thing is that Donald Trump and a non-trivial number of his defenders can't even tell the difference between objectifying someone and boasting about sexual assault.
posted by Francis at 11:17 AM on October 8, 2016 [28 favorites]


Katie Tur is actually anchoring on MSNBC right now for the first time, and so far it's nicely schadenfreudlich.
posted by spitbull at 11:18 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


See Schrodinger's rapist.

It's not even a Schrodinger's rapist because past performance is not indicative of future results. Women can't prove conclusively a man won't rape so all you can do is roll the dice each time.
posted by Talez at 11:18 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Some of my Dem activist friends are worrying the GOP might pull a rope-a-dope play now forcing Trump to step down and running Pence as the lead instead. I don't think Trump's ego would let him step down though.

And even if they could manage this ticket flip idea, what makes anyone think that Pence-Trump would have a better chance that Trump-Pence? It would stink of incompetence to swing voters while alienating the millions of people who want Donald Trump, specifically, to be president. The idea that anyone should be worrying about this seems plain silly to me.
posted by howfar at 11:18 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]




Katie Tur is actually anchoring on MSNBC right now for the first time, and so far it's nicely schadenfreudlich.

She fucking earned it.
posted by Talez at 11:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]


Have we linked to this tweet from Kelly Oxford yet? With its million replies?
posted by notquitemaryann at 11:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [17 favorites]


This will just embolden his supporters. They are willing to vote a sexual predator into office if it means defeating Hillary Clinton.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 11:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


To borrow something pointed out by John Rogers, do guys objectify women when women aren't around, rating them and saying they'd like to do them? Frequently. And that is locker room talk. (I'm not condoning it) Do guys boast about sexual assault of women who don't want it? In my experience? Never.

Do people truly not understand that these are BOTH rape culture, they are BOTH sick?
posted by sallybrown at 11:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [42 favorites]


Katie Tur is actually anchoring on MSNBC right now for the first time, and so far it's nicely schadenfreudlich.
posted by spitbull at 11:18 AM on October 8 [1 favorite −] Favorite added! [!]


Hallie Jackson looked pissed though. I was wondering which of that traveling class would get an anchor spot. I'm so glad it's Tur.

Now we just need Joy Ann to seize MTP and throw Chuck Todd in a tower somewhere and we'll be getting close.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Have we linked to this tweet from Kelly Oxford yet? With its million replies?

Yes but it's worth linking again.
posted by Talez at 11:20 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


[Couple more comments removed. saul, seriously, take a break from this thread.]
posted by cortex at 11:21 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Speaking of which, what do you think is going through the mind of Kellyann Conway right now?

How much her book deal is going to be worth. The amount that I, for one, am willing to pay for a copy goes up every day.


She couldn't pay me to take a copy off her hands. She is a terrible person, and goes on tv gaslighting all of us, normalizing trump's horrible behavior and deeds, and is a big reason Trump's stature is where it was right before this, with him not far enough behind in the polls. She's a terrible person, who is supporting, aiding and holding up a terrible person. And she's accepting money to do that to the American people. I'd read a book from Nancy, or Jill, or the Khans, or from immigrants who are being harassed and threatened by Trump voters at family events. I'd read a book from Katy Tur, who covers the Trump campaign and has to listen to young children screaming 'trump that bitch' at rallies, and seeing horrific things on t-shirts. I would read a book from Malcolm Nance on how the Russians tried, and hopefully failed, to get Trump elected by hacking things. I'd read a book from whoever leaked part of Trump's taxes - how they got them, how they mailed them, how it all happened. The last person I want to give a single cent to, is Kellyanne freaking Conway, gaslighter extraordinaire.
posted by cashman at 11:21 AM on October 8, 2016 [51 favorites]


It would be a lot easier to replace him if he stepped down - but I join everyone else to say that Donald Trump is fundamentally incapable of admitting he's a loser.
posted by corb at 11:21 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]



My Thanksgiving dinner is later today. I don't have to be concerned about any arguments, no Trump like supporters in the room but I don't see how it's not going to be a main topic of conversation. I'm not sure how I feel about that.
posted by Jalliah at 11:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


@SopanDeb:

"PEAK TRUMP: "Go behind closed doors of the...politicians & pundits & see what they’re saying. I look like a baby.”

on.wsj.com/2dVjUwO"

So not just Bill is worse, everybody is worse than him.
posted by chris24 at 11:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Not just that they're both rape culture but that they exist on a continuum, and a lot closer together than people seem to want to believe.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


Apparently Pence-Carson is being floated as the back-up ticket [real]

Is that why Pence isn't going to Wisconsin? Is there any possibility he's staying home to cram for a debate appearance?
posted by mochapickle at 11:22 AM on October 8, 2016


I think it's okay to vandalize swastikas and the like.

And that's why windmills are such a popular subject for graffiti artists.
posted by jackbishop at 11:23 AM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


jackbishop: Huh! I've definitely seen those before, but never realized what they were covering.
posted by roll truck roll at 11:24 AM on October 8, 2016


Just in case the newer mefites haven't read the Schroedinger's rapist thread.
posted by Sophie1 at 11:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


More calls for Trump to step aside:

Alaska Sen. Dan Sullivan
Rep. Rodney Davis of IL

Meanwhile, Dr. Ben Carson tells @FoxNews more Trump revelations are coming.

(all twitter links)
posted by sallybrown at 11:25 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Is there any possibility he's staying home to cram for a debate appearance?

Bwah God, that's Mike Pence's music!
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:26 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


This is not just assault...You are lying to yourself if you think this is not something that saturates daily interactions between men and women

Not denying that at all. I'm in a male-dominated field and I know this first hand. Many of the men I've met haven't been perfect gentlemen. In one notable instance, though, the insulting dude -- an exciting hire for the company, since he was really smart and had very relevant experience -- was fired immediately by the owner of the company.

The media in question, though, is about a kind of assault -- kissing unwilling, powerless victims who can't say no -- and, if that kind of thing -- actual assault -- is being perpetrated on most of the women in our society by more than half of the powerful men you meet, that would certainly defeat my original point.

The main point, though, is that it is not normal, and that one can be a powerful, even famous man without doing this kind of thing. Allowing a narrative to prevail that says "all the winners behave this way" is not healthy, not for young men, not for boys, and not for girls who are learning what they should expect to tolerate.
posted by amtho at 11:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


"Meanwhile, Dr. Ben Carson tells @FoxNews more Trump revelations are coming."

Wait, so the Republicans are leaking stuff on him as well as the Democrats? I never realized how bipartisan October surprises could be.
posted by I-baLL at 11:27 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


My kid's school actually had a mass shooting threat from the creepy clown contingent, so I've been thinking about them a lot recently. And I've been waiting and waiting for an alt-right connection to surface. Surely I can't be the only person waiting to see if some of these clowns have pointy hoods, can I?
______\\
Wait, what, clowns? Actual creepy clowns, or metaphorical ones? As a Stephen King fan, I feel like I've failed to click on some important links.
posted by invincible summer at 2:04 PM on 10/8
Yes, literal clowns, though it was deemed a not-credible threat. A follow-on to the creepy clown mass hysteria that seems just so freaking not-coincidental with the election cycle, if you ask me. WaPo article on the scares
posted by instamatic at 11:28 AM on October 8, 2016


Wait, so the Republicans are leaking stuff on him as well as the Democrats? I never realized how bipartisan October surprises could be.

If there's something in it for them, sure. It's the moment when the pu**y grab turns into a land grab.
posted by mochapickle at 11:29 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Washington Post reporter @PhilipRucker:
"Carl Paladino, close Trump ally, said campaign is “fine” & “rocking,” and “gutter talk” is smthg "all men do, at least all normal men do.""
posted by cashman at 11:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Holy shit, the Pawlenty statement:

"Although I'd hoped he could have risen to the occasion, it's clear Trump is unwilling or unable to demonstrate even the most basic level of discipline, character and judgment necessary to lead our great nation. He is unsound, uninformed, unhinged, and unfit to be President of the United States, and I am withdrawing my support for him."
posted by corb at 11:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [31 favorites]


@EvilGalProds: "Men, don't just congratulate yourself on not being Donald Trump. Be sure you're not Billy Bush."
posted by chris24 at 11:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [175 favorites]


If you are having trouble grokking how "rating" women in the locker room connects to "I'll grab that pussy whenever I want" consider that both involve a feeling of entitlement similar to that of ownership: that you are entitled to think and comment on a woman's body regardless of what she does; that you are entitled to access a woman's body regardless of what she does.

Of all the times you've made comments about a woman's body - did the woman in question ask you "What is your opinion of how sexually attractive my body is?" I bet not.

Consider Trump's involvement in beauty pageants.
posted by sallybrown at 11:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [33 favorites]


RNC Halts all "Victory Project" work for Trump

This is amazing. A brand new Saturday Massacre.
posted by dis_integration at 11:30 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]


My Thanksgiving dinner is later today. I don't have to be concerned about any arguments, no Trump like supporters in the room but I don't see how it's not going to be a main topic of conversation. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Mine is tomorrow night. In-laws, who are pretty left, and my parents, who are pretty right - not Trump supporters, but no love for Hillary. There was a suggestion floated to have the debate on. I'm trying to suggest that we not. I see no need to have Canadian Thanksgiving ruined by the Orange Shitshow south of the 49th.
posted by nubs at 11:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Wait so now we're going from "Trump tells it like it is", "this is just typical locker room talk", etc. to "AT LEAST TRUMP ISN'T A WUSS LIKE ALL YOU BETAS WHO DON'T RAPE WOMEN ON THE REGULAR."
posted by Sara C. at 11:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Jalliah: He's going to crow about his 'support' because that's all he can see.

In fairness, a well fitting pair of orthotics does make a lot of difference.

Oh, and some of you may get a kick out of this Dutch newspaper cartoon.
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]


forcing Trump to step down and running Pence as the lead instead.

If Republicans do this, they'll lose even bigger they are already going to. The truly deplorable Trump supporters won't vote for Pence - they'll write in Trump, or Pepe, or stay home and whine.

Meanwhile, the public knows nothing about Pence, and I guarantee you that Hillary's campaign and independent PACs have TV ads in the can full of choice oppo - anti-women comments, stuff from the Kaine debate, his insane "funerals for fetuses" bill, Russia, economic attacks, Planned Parenthood, climate change, Indiana Republicans despising him, etc. etc.

They are more than ready to fill the vacuum of knowledge about Pence with truly scary and cringeworthy facts - which have the additional advantage of being true.
posted by msalt at 11:31 AM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


"They are more than ready to fill the vacuum of knowledge about Pence with truly scary and cringeworthy facts - which have the additional advantage of being true."

Eh, maybe. Will they have time to propagate it though?
posted by I-baLL at 11:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


If you are having trouble grokking how "rating" women in the locker room connects to "I'll grab that pussy whenever I want" consider that both involve a feeling of entitlement similar to that of ownership: that you are entitled to think and comment on a woman's body regardless of what she does; that you are entitled to access a woman's body regardless of what she does.

On the other hand if you are having trouble understanding how damaging this is to Trump, remember that people who deny the very existence of rape culture and would have no problem at all with rating women in the locker room will be utterly appalled by what he has said.
posted by Francis at 11:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


Katy Tur is on the anchor's desk. Anyone else think she was threatened so severely that she had to be taken out of the field for her own safety?
posted by Sophie1 at 11:34 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


I have never been seriously assaulted and do not have PTSD. And yet, if something did happen to me, I have a very, very short list of men that I would trust not to dismiss it, minimize it, or blame me for it. Like maybe two?

I don't expect that most men are like Trump in the locker room. I think that Trump is a more extreme, and more overt, form of a subtle misogyny that runs through our culture. One form this misogyny takes is to treat women's concerns as overblown.

Let me give you an example. I have a friend who is not a Republican, although he's more conservative than me. He's always treated me with the same respect he gives men. I don't feel remotely threatened or demeaned by him. Yet, one day, we were at a party, and he was showing someone--another male friend--something on his phone that they were laughing about.

I looked, and what was it? Someone had taken the video of Hillary Clinton's surprise at the balloon drop and photoshopped dicks cramming into her mouth. They thought this was very funny. They didn't understand why it was not.

I lost respect for him, and trust in him, in an instant. I still genuinely like him, but my list went from three to two. And you're probably thinking, hey, he would probably still stand up for you if something happened. Enjoying a sexist joke doesn't mean he wouldn't stand up for you. But note what I said up there about minimizing? I do not trust men who minimize.

One of the two men I trust vocally objected to that gif, but was basically ignored. And this was a group of men you would expect to be progressive: mostly left, young academics in liberal arts or social sciences.

So yeah, I tend to assume that most men are sexist these days. It's not something I like but I have been burned too many times. I think it takes hard, introspective work for men to overcome sexism. They might not necessarily be frothing, Trump-like monsters without that work, they might be genuinely nice and well-intentioned people, but they won't have rooted out what our culture has taught them. And I don't think most men have done that work.

If that makes you feel bad, imagine how I feel.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 11:36 AM on October 8, 2016 [139 favorites]


Look up the historical popular vote margins between the winner and runner-up in presidential elections.

Yes. This whole "we can't get complacent" thing comes from a good place, I accept -- we still need to show up, I get it -- but I'll stick with my six months ago take, which is, basically, there is no possible way Clinton can't win this in a landslide. Even if she made horrendous missteps... well, it's Trump, for crying out loud. She's been President-elect since his nomination.

It's a shame there will be asterisks on the inevitable huge victory, because, you know, not a real opponent and all that, but I really believe the reporting has been way more interested in inventing a horserace where there's nothing, because blowouts are boring.

I know it's not a popular position, but I think a lot of stress and worry of the last few months has been unnecessary and self-imposed, and we should relax a little, already. Trump is and always was impossible.
posted by rokusan at 11:36 AM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


There is to be another revelation about Trump and women in NY Times Opinion page Sunday


They decided to release it early: Donald Trump, Groper in Chief
posted by missmerrymack at 11:37 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Katy Tur is on the anchors desk. Anyone else think she was threatened so severely that she had to be taken out of the field for her own safety?
posted by Sophie1 at 11:34 AM on October 8 [+] [!]


Oh God I hope not. I thought they were all sort of jockeying for an anchor spot (like it occurred to me this summer that their "road warriors" seemed to be gunning for face time in order to get the next step up), and that's what Hallie Jackson's look was about, but this...would be worse.

Fuck that would be terrible.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:38 AM on October 8, 2016


Wait so now we're going from "Trump tells it like it is", "this is just typical locker room talk", etc. to "AT LEAST TRUMP ISN'T A WUSS LIKE ALL YOU BETAS WHO DON'T RAPE WOMEN ON THE REGULAR."

Honestly, I bet "You all want to do it, I'm just not a pussy so I actually go through with it" is probably something that a lot of serial assaulters and rapists actually believe. Just one more little example of the magic of toxic masculinity.
posted by IAmUnaware at 11:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


On the other hand if you are having trouble understanding how damaging this is to Trump, remember that people who deny the very existence of rape culture and would have no problem at all with rating women in the locker room will be utterly appalled by what he has said.

Yeah, I don't believe for a second that Ryan, Pence, and the rest of the GOP leadership have decided to give a shit about sexual violence against women. Trump just finally got too embarrassing to associate with.

It's like the brothers of the most notorious frat at Rohypnol U trying to pretend they're not with that one pledge who can't hold his liquor and keeps shouting to the rest of the bar about what a pussy hound he is.
posted by bibliowench at 11:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]


There were a few women posting on Billy Bush's Facebook page last night who were all, "All men talk like this" and responded to other women objecting with, "Yes including yours, sweetie, I 100% guarantee it. You're fooling yourself if you think they don't." Deep, deep in the Patriarchy. I don't know how to reach women like that.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 11:39 AM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]


I should be surprised by the continuing support of Evangelicals but I'm not. Fundamentalists often have the same misogyny and fucked up sexuality as the Tangerine Scream but they couch it differently. While fundies have their molesting priests, their polygamous child brides that they've been grooming since age 5, and their cheating preachers, they have a different narrative and they probably apply it to the Donald as well. The Donald is about alpha male entitlement and King of the World dominance, but fundies blame the women who are 'evil temptresses' (even if they're children) who led them down the wrong path and they ask for Jesus's forgiveness. But underneath, I think they're all the same. I'm sure the fundies blame Trump's victims as well.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 11:40 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Is that why Pence isn't going to Wisconsin? Is there any possibility he's staying home to cram for a debate appearance?

If Pence wants to spend another 90 minutes trying to deny things Trump is on tape saying, more power to him, I guess.
posted by AndrewInDC at 11:40 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


There is to be another revelation about Trump and women in NY Times Opinion page Sunday

They decided to release it early: Donald Trump, Groper in Chief


That's not new. It came out yesterday.
posted by invincible summer at 11:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


We pray for his family and look forward to the opportunity he has to show what is in his heart when he goes before the nation tomorrow night.

KAAAALI-MAAAA!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:42 AM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]


Add Senator Lisa Murkowski to the list - boom. (twitter)
posted by sallybrown at 11:43 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Wait so now we're going from "Trump tells it like it is", "this is just typical locker room talk", etc. to "AT LEAST TRUMP ISN'T A WUSS LIKE ALL YOU BETAS WHO DON'T RAPE WOMEN ON THE REGULAR."

this is going to bring out ugliness in unprecedented ways; for some people this is not a shocker, but a normalizer.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 11:43 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


From my friend on FB:

When they came for the Mexicans, you said nothing.
When they came for the Muslims, you said nothing.
When they came for the Black Lives, you said nothing.
Now they have come to grab you by the pussy, and this is too far?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [83 favorites]


and now Senator Deb Fischer of Nebraska says bye bye Donald (twitter)

Phyllis Schlafly, I so wish you were alive to see this!
posted by sallybrown at 11:45 AM on October 8, 2016 [26 favorites]


This has the potential to put a big asterisk beside Hillary Clinton's name in the history books, with the implication that she only won because her primary opposition imploded.

That still puts her ahead of:

Lyndon B. Johnson
Theodore Roosevelt
Chester A. Arthur
Andrew Johnson

All of whom became President because the previous guy died. I haven't noticed any of them with asterisks beside their names in the history books (well, at least not because of that). Besides, I'm pretty sure that Hillary Clinton has no intention of being the first one term female President of the United States.
posted by AdamCSnider at 11:46 AM on October 8, 2016 [41 favorites]


KATY TUR JUST SLIPPED UP AND SAID "REPUBLICAN LAWBREAKERS"

Holy shit this is the best day ever.
posted by Talez at 11:48 AM on October 8, 2016 [62 favorites]




Anyone else think she was threatened so severely that she had to be taken out of the field for her own safety?

I don't think so, thankfully. She was on the road for the western swing last week, and had this conversation for Showtime. Today she was probably booked to go to Wisconsin, and when that got cancelled, MSNBC gave her anchor duty (as its main political team decamps to St Louis).

They are more than ready to fill the vacuum of knowledge about Pence with truly scary and cringeworthy facts

Such as his support for Donald Trump.

(Seriously, if Victory Fund is being frozen, you have to start asking about what happens if a campaign ends with millions of dollars in its bank account. Most campaigns finish with debt that needs to be retired.)
posted by holgate at 11:49 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


The man says, "The Aristocrats!"
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:50 AM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]


I cannot imagine the amount of shit and harassment that Katie Tur and Hallie Jackson have endured covering Trump. I hope there's an anchor desk for both of them at the end of this.
posted by Ber at 11:50 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


This day is so great that not even being gaslit inside a thread about Donald Trump wanting to grab my pussy can bring me down from this high.
posted by sallybrown at 11:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]


the enemy of my enemy may still be my enemy.

i mean stalin didn't like hitler either
posted by poffin boffin at 11:51 AM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


Katy Tur's going back to London, I imagine. She's certainly qualified to report on Brexit Crazy.
posted by holgate at 11:52 AM on October 8, 2016


The Guardian had that story in July. Why is it only in the Times now?
posted by amarynth at 11:53 AM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


btw just wanted to applaud Rhaomi on this cornicopia of a post. If I didn't have to go to work, I'd be here all day.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 11:54 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Oh, wait, the url says July but the story says Oct. Never mind!
posted by amarynth at 11:55 AM on October 8, 2016


Thus spake a high school friend on Facebook:

"I have a 15-year-old daughter, but just for the record, I've hated misogyny since WELL before she was born."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [43 favorites]


LOL @emmaroller: I am very sorry to inform the GOP that despite their protests, they must carry this candidate to term
posted by lalex at 11:55 AM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]


Donald didn't pull out on time and now they are in a shotgun marriage, broke and pregnant.
posted by humanfont at 11:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


So all Pence said was basically "Sending thoughts and prayers"? Weak.
posted by Wordshore at 11:56 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yes, he says he'll never pull out. Ouch! Well, or not.
posted by Oyéah at 11:57 AM on October 8, 2016


I wish PredictIt had shares about whether Donald will spew out one or more late-night Tweetfests before the end of the campaign. That's definitely something I'd put money on.

Remember, they chose this guy. I don't think it's an accident that a raging misogynist is the GOP response to the first Democratic woman nominee. I would hope this is the last, desperate gasp of dying toxic masculinity, but instead it seems to just mainstream hate in ways previously hidden in the shadows.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 11:58 AM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Spare a kind thought for your company's IT staff, who will spend the next week poring over web filter logs trying to figure out who was searching for pornography and who was just reading about the election.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [37 favorites]


Oh, wait, the url says July but the story says Oct. Never mind!

No, it's from July. Here's a Guardian tweet from yesterday, and here's Jessica Valenti commenting on the article in an article dated July 20. Guardian seems to have messed up the dates in the article when they started promoting it again.
posted by effbot at 12:03 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


If Republicans do this [replace Trump], they'll lose even bigger they are already going to.

Oh sure, they definitely would, but at least they'd lose with the shred of dignity they need to start rebuilding their party.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 12:03 PM on October 8, 2016




You know what? Rape culture, sexual assault, and misogyny ARE important issues facing our nation and the world.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [134 favorites]


Josh Marshall: A Few Thoughts on the Video
Let's take this tweet as a placeholder for a lot of GOP 'how could we have known' excuses.
@TheFix: Republicans I talk to tonight are sort of stunned. They knew Trump was dangerous for the party. They didn't know he was this dangerous.
This is literally laughable.

We can't say the emergence of this tape was predictable. But the behavior is not at all surprising based on what we already knew. Indeed, I would almost say this whole line of reasoning is offensive, in this sense: Sexual assault is terrible. But it's hardly the only terrible thing that has been dredged up by this election. What about the campaigns of hate and occasional violence spurred by this campaign? [...]

The institutional Republican party has endorsed and supported a dangerous man, enabling the damage he's done during the campaign and leaving the country open to innumerable depredations should he become president. #NeverTrump ended up being a marginal reality, backed by only a few Republicans and virtually no officeholders. If this tape brings them around to some measure of responsibility later, wonderful. But this has been a game they've been playing for months with eyes wide open.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [25 favorites]


I would hope this is the last, desperate gasp of dying toxic masculinity, but instead it seems to just mainstream hate in ways previously hidden in the shadows.

This might actually be a good thing in that it's easier to fight if you don't have quite so many people denying that it actually exists, but even so the best case scenario is that things are going to get pretty ugly for a while.
posted by IAmUnaware at 12:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I would hope this is the last, desperate gasp of dying toxic masculinity, but instead it seems to just mainstream hate in ways previously hidden in the shadows.

yes, basically this. similar to how 8 years of aggressive racism and xenophobia from the repubs towards obama has normalized aggressive racism and xenophobia in the general public.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]


My mom is a diehard Republican despite being as far as I can tell, pretty socially liberal. I made her go through the VoteCompass test and she came out as 75% agreeing with Clinton. She's as annoyed/disgusted with this pussy thing as everyone else. And yet just now she was all, "I just can't stand the both of them!" and "But why is not voting the same as voting for Trump?"

I was all, "If you genuinely think both of them are the exact same at this point, I do not know what to say to you." There is just nothing you can goddamned do about people being blockheads on a topic.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


>>They are morenthan ready to fill the vacuum of knowledge on Oence...
I-ball: >Eh, maybe. Will they have time to propagate it though?
The Clinton campaign bought tons of late TV ad time early, locking in cheaper rates. I'm certain they can run whatever ad they like in those slots.

Meanwhile, the media will have a huge news hole as reporters scramble to learn more about Pence. It will be very easy to get coverage for hard-hitting ads as well as the well-documented allegations in those ads.

AND! The new VP will be fodder as well. Ben Carson's fake knife attack? Nikki Haley's alleged affair?
posted by msalt at 12:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Corey Lewandowski: "He speaks the way many times people talk around their dining room table."

I've sat at many dining room tables with many different people. Not once has the conversation included anyone bragging about sexually assaulting someone. Nice try!
posted by SisterHavana at 12:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]


Melania Trump: "The words my husband used are unacceptable and offensive to me. This does not represent the man that I know. He has the heart and mind of a leader. I hope people will accept his apology, as I have, and focus on the important issues facing our nation and the world."

Welp, there goes the "Hillary the enabler" angle.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [36 favorites]


Finally to the end of the new thread! Hi everybody!

So it's clear that Donald is going to attempt to use Bill and Hillary's "enabling" to go on the attack tomorrow, right? I have to admit, I'm a little worried about that. I know Hillary's got this, and that she's going to be prepared as fuck, and that Donald literally does not have the temperament to pull off the absolute tightrope walk that would be actually succeeding with that line of attack...but I'm still worried.

Also, here's my out-there prediction: Donald walks out of the debate. Someone will ask a difficult question, the moderators will press him on an offensive statement or lie, Hillary drops a new oppo bomb on him, whatever: Donald might actually, literally, walk the fuck out.
posted by yasaman at 12:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


@Schwarzenegger 11 minutes ago As proud as I am to label myself a Republican, there is one label that I hold above all else - American. My full statement:

You know it's bad when OTHER politicians elected after confessing to sexual assault are renouncing you.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]


Dammit, I'm out of favorites again. Everyone, just consider my thanks are with you.
posted by corb at 12:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [45 favorites]


Trump is a deeply ill-considered bet on the deplorable vote, rushed through by the GOP leadership.

I'd also like to point out that the GOP aren't good. Like, understanding there are different types of Muslims before invading one country or the other. No-bid incontestable contracts for war profiteers. Paul LaPage. Bobby Jindal. They're only good at power-grabbing, intimidation, and bullshit.

This is going to cut them wide open for a few years at least - BUT it depends on the news media. The only reason this is still looping today is that we haven't had a full news cycle or anything to bump it yet.

That, and the sheer disgusting nature of the comments AND ACTIONS of Trump have pissed off the formerly leashed talking heads for awhile.
posted by petebest at 12:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Oh god, I think I'm actually going to want to watch a debate tomorrow, and I haaaaaaaaaaate shit like that.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


At what point will the financial backers for properties bearing his name start to consider re-branding?
posted by cmfletcher at 12:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


All the talking heads smell blood.

Good.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:10 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


Proposed new question for tomorrow night:

Mr. Trump, your campaign seems to have the momentum of a runaway freight train...that has jumped the rails and is now careening towards a gorge, threatening to kill everyone on board. What advice would you give those looking to get off?
posted by nubs at 12:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]


There are so many people urging Trump to bail that I can't even keep up: Senator Cory Gardner of CO, the Governor of Alabama, Rep. Erik Paulson of Minnesota
posted by sallybrown at 12:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


I've noticed an edge creeping into Trump's statements:
"Let's be honest, we're living in the real world."

"About his sexually charged statements caught on tape, Mr. Trump said, “People get it. They get life."
Somebody has managed to calm him down, but there's a clear subtext here: "this is all perfectly normal and if you people weren't so PC all the time you'd all get that." And it's not really even a subtext, because it was pretty overtly said that way in his first non-apology statement. Even now, he's going with "toughen up" as his response. He doesn't get it. Does he really think people will go "yeah he's right, in the real world there's lots of sexual assaults, so who cares about this?" That works for the lowest of the deplorables, but it just makes everyone else more angry.

[I was really hoping for a prize at the bottom of the cereal box thread, but all I found were a ton of awesome comments]
posted by zachlipton at 12:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


Clinton has to shake the hand of that monster before the debate tomorrow. She'll do it without throwing up, but I know I couldn't.
posted by dazed_one at 12:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Prediction for the dabate:
Trump reaches out to shake hands.
Hillary takes a step back, covering her crotch.
Crowd goes WILD.
posted by sexyrobot at 12:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [37 favorites]


I really, really want to see more pushback against all of these Republicans who are so appalled by Donald Trump's "words," and not the actions that those words describe.

Donald Trump bragged about committing sexual assault on tape. That should be the fucking headline. None of this mealy-mouthed faux-outrage at his "words." The words are disgusting, but they are not the worst thing here. He could use the most polite language possible and the crime would be the same.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [53 favorites]


At what point will the financial backers for properties bearing his name start to consider re-branding?

Last week. Ivanka announced a new hotel brand named Scion.
posted by acidic at 12:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


I think I might just break down crying when she has to shake his hand tomorrow. Too many women know what it feels like to have to smile and shake the hand of a man you know is a serial sexual assaulter/harasser.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:15 PM on October 8, 2016 [71 favorites]


I predict the ratings for tomorrow night's debate are going to smash the record ratings of the first debate.
posted by SisterHavana at 12:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


So it's clear that Donald is going to attempt to use Bill and Hillary's "enabling" to go on the attack tomorrow, right? I have to admit, I'm a little worried about that. I know Hillary's got this, and that she's going to be prepared as fuck, and that Donald literally does not have the temperament to pull off the absolute tightrope walk that would be actually succeeding with that line of attack...but I'm still worried.

I'm not worried. This tape and WHEN it was recorded so plays into Hillary's hand to help her pivot and demonstrate how she has spent the last 16 years in public service, in stark contrast to Trump.

Imagine: "Well, [Anderson Cooper or whoever in the audience], there are two people on this stage who are running for President of the United States. In 2005, when I was a United States Senator, I was voting against CAFTA and working across party lines with colleagues like Senator Lindsey Graham to develop incentives and rewards for companies that manufacture their products in the United States. My opponent was, well...you know."
posted by AndrewInDC at 12:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


Yeah, at this point the Republicans and/or media outlets who want a horse race are framing this as being about Trump saying the word "pussy", not about Trump admitting to sexually assaulting women. Hence Lewandowski's claim that this is how people talk around the dinner table.
posted by Sara C. at 12:17 PM on October 8, 2016


I was gonna skip voting this year; but Trump talked me into voting against him.
It was his constant use of words and ideas like always, never, everything, the best ever, the worst ever, combined with his understanding of how to accuse people of doing the very things he does regularly, and brags about!
I decided a week or two ago to vote against Teleprompter Trump.
The only thing I can imagine making me vote for Hillary... is Lying, Crooked, Adulterous, Hypocritical, Thieving, Floorflushig, Bankrupt, Welfare Collecting, Tax Evading, Draft Dodging, Whore mongering, Teleprompter Reading, Indebted to Wall Street, Putin Admiring Traitor, War Hero Slandering, Biggoted, Pussy Grabbing, Sexual Assaulting, Foreign Investor, Glittering Generalities, Truth Twisting Trump.
He just keeps on reminding me to show up at the poles.
posted by Mike Hunt at 12:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


I'm 46 years old. I have never heard men speak like that when women are not around.

I worked in construction for almost a decade with some pretty rough characters and they could be crude as hell about women but I never heard any of them brag about sexual assault.
posted by octothorpe at 12:19 PM on October 8, 2016 [64 favorites]


Bottom line about Trump going on the offensive about Bill's past is that Hillary has been deflecting that for 16 years at this point.

If it didn't keep her out of the senate when the wounds were fresh and Bill was still in office as a lame duck, letting it hurt her now would have to involve the worlds biggest own goal.
posted by Sara C. at 12:19 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Does he really think people will go "yeah he's right, in the real world there's lots of sexual assaults, so who cares about this?"

i'm guessing you've never read a game of thrones thread here then.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]


I worked in construction for almost a decade with some pretty rough characters and they could be crude as hell about women but I never heard any of them brag about sexual assault.

Can we stop with these derails?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]






Yeah, when I sit down to dinner with my family and Mom asks me how my day went, I always say, "Well, not too bad. I moved on this woman like a bitch, she was married, I failed to fuck her. Then I grabbed someone else by her pussy, I didn't ask, they let you do that."

Fuck you Lewandowski, you shitbag. Drop dead.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [40 favorites]


Just because it may be technically legally possible does not mean that Trump's ardent supporters will roll over and take it. They will revolt if this is done.

Except that it is not "technically legally possible." While it is true that one is voting for electors, not a candidate, what the electors do in the event of a candidate no longer being on the ballot varies according the state law. Some states leave it up to the elector's discretion. Others "bind" the electors to vote in accordance with the majority of their precincts. Those states include: Alabama, Alaska, North and South Carolina, Florida, Ohio, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Montana, Tennessee, Utah, Wyoming - all states any GOP candaidte must win to even have a chance at 270 electoral votes. Many of those states, as noted above, also are past the due date for adding/changing a name on the ballot. That means their electors are legally required to cast votes for Trump (should he win in their precincts), not Fill-In-The-Blank GOP Candidate.
In short, there is no Hail Mary for the GOP. Very likely what they will do next is abandon Trump the way they abandoned Dole in October 1996.
posted by eustacescrubb at 12:22 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


I'm curious to see if Trump's overt misogyny is the last straw that finally loosens the Republican hold on white women. (White women have voted Republican in 9 out of the 10 last presidential elections, the lone exception being Bill Clinton in 1996.)
posted by splitpeasoup at 12:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


GOP opprobrium rankings:

Anti-Muslim bigotry < anti-Mexican bigotry < sexism < sexual assault bragging < minor marginal tax rate hike


via @brianbeutler
posted by Freen at 12:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]


It's downright cruel that we aren't provided more favorites at moments like this.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 12:24 PM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]




splitpeasoup, based on my family FB, it has loosened them to "Hillary is just as bad, but there are other options than Trump and Clinton."
posted by instamatic at 12:25 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


It's downright cruel that we aren't provided more favorites at moments like this.

I just hit my favorite limit for the first time ever. I can't believe it. Maybe this is finally the surely this moment and Trump will be destroyed.
posted by cashman at 12:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


Colbert, from a show that taped Thursday: Trump's Objectification Of Women Is Becoming A Campaign Issue
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


‏@TicTacUSA

Tic Tac respects all women. We find the recent statements and behavior completely inappropriate and unacceptable.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [99 favorites]


It's downright cruel that we aren't provided more favorites at moments like this.

Agreed - I've been out of favorites for the last 100+ posts.. consider yourself favorited
posted by mumimor at 12:30 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Which country's democracy gives the option of literally voting against a candidate? Where if you don't want somebody to win you can vote to negate a vote for them? We should have that in the US.
posted by I-baLL at 12:31 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Can you die of too much schadenfreude? I will stop being complacent and smug and hilarious tomorrow, really, I promise. Today, I will enjoy every swallow of my frosty chalice of delicious schadenfreude.
posted by theora55 at 12:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


Now seems like a good time for everyone who's signed one of Trump's NDAs to all come forward at once with their various sordid tales, and just dare him to sue.
posted by contraption at 12:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]


Donald Trump bragged about committing sexual assault on tape. That should be the fucking headline. None of this mealy-mouthed faux-outrage at his "words." The words are disgusting, but they are not the worst thing here. He could use the most polite language possible and the crime would be the same.

It's been a mix in terms of the media coverage. Most of the initial stories did describe it as "Trump uses lewd language" and played it as general disrespect toward women, but within a couple of hours, the sexual assault side of it was the main story. The Times ran in print with a headline of "Tape Reveals Trump Boast About Groping Women," putting the focus on the actions and not the language. The Post ran "lewd chat" but included "bragged of groping" in the subhead. WSJ just went with "lewd Trump comments," focusing on words and not actions. The Chicago Tribune has "Trump boats of groping women." Weirdly, the LA Times gave it just an inch below the fold and tell you to turn to A10. When I watched cable news last night, there was a pretty good focus on the sexual assault and not just the words.

So not a clear focus on his actions, but it's not all just "he said bad words" either.

Some stories are starting to contextualize his words with the other accusations, which range from rape to groping, including other instances of unwanted kissing, to repeated unwanted advances to the many many things he's said. I said it a few days ago, but this is a freaking missing stair situation, and this guy climbed the staircase all the way to a coinflip away from the Presidency. We all knew about several of these accusations, though a couple of new ones have come out in the past day. Why on earth weren't they enough?
posted by zachlipton at 12:33 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


Where if you don't want somebody to win you can vote to negate a vote for them? We should have that in the US.

Then nobody would hold public office. Maybe we'd just have to pick holders of public office in the same way we pick jurors: random draw!
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:33 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


So not one but TWO candy companies have had to go to social media to Save Their Brand from the words and actions of a racist, sexist Presidential candidate and his spawn.
posted by maudlin at 12:34 PM on October 8, 2016 [45 favorites]


splitpeasoup, based on my family FB, it has loosened them to "Hillary is just as bad, but there are other options than Trump and Clinton."


Those I don't mind. It's the "Sure, Trump is bad, but Jesus will save us" that is blowing my mind. Apparently Jesus can rescue us from a disgusting racist rapey blowhard, but if Hillary appoints a Supreme Court justice we're doomed.
posted by snickerdoodle at 12:36 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


If it comes to the Supreme Court to decide another presidency, we will all understand precisely why they wouldn't even dream of holding hearings for Garland. For the current Republican party, justice is meaningless; it's only about winning. That's reason #306 I'm With Her.
posted by theora55 at 12:37 PM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]


Jesus is not eligible to vote in this election.
posted by theora55 at 12:37 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


Finally, someone talks about their responsibility to their sons. Rep. Tom Rooney (FL 17):
As the father of three young sons, I don't want my boys growing up in a world where the President of the United States is allowed to speak or treat women the way that Donald Trump has. My greatest responsibility in life is to try and be a good husband and father. If I support him for president, I will be telling my boys that I think it’s okay to treat women like objects—and I’ll have failed as a dad. Therefore, I can no longer support Donald Trump for president and will not be voting for him or Hillary Clinton.
posted by lalex at 12:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [156 favorites]


posted by dazed_one Clinton has to shake the hand of that monster before the debate tomorrow. She'll do it without throwing up, but I know I couldn't.

Prediction:
Clinton shakes Trump's hand, walks away, pulls bottle of Purell from her pocket and wipes her hands vigorously, smiles at the crowd and winks.
posted by mattdidthat at 12:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


Here's a handy spreadsheet (Google Docs) of GOP elected officials' responses to the Trump video, courtesy of Taniel on Twitter.
posted by SisterHavana at 12:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Meanwhile my dad is still ranting about how "all the debates and primaries were rigged for Hillary, why shouldn't the election be too."

Remind me not to get old.
posted by delfin at 12:41 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Clinton has to shake the hand of that monster before the debate tomorrow.

This thought has been genuinely upsetting me since yesterday. I don't want her to have to touch him. I don't even want her in the same room as him. That's just a visceral, automatic reaction on my part, and it's what I'd think about any woman I care about having to share a room with him. Hell, any woman I don't care about.
posted by yasaman at 12:43 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump (real)

The media and establishment want me out of the race so badly - I WILL NEVER DROP OUT OF THE RACE, WILL NEVER LET MY SUPPORTERS DOWN! #MAGA
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:43 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Reminder: Don't get old.
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:44 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


Those I don't mind. It's the "Sure, Trump is bad, but Jesus will save us" that is blowing my mind. Apparently Jesus can rescue us from a disgusting racist rapey blowhard, but if Hillary appoints a Supreme Court justice we're doomed.

"I sent you a rowboat, Khizr and Ghazala Khan, Alicia Machado, and 'grab them by the pussy.' What the hell are you doing here?"
posted by zachlipton at 12:44 PM on October 8, 2016 [79 favorites]


Someone at Washington University in the background of CNN has a sign that says "Groping women is not lewd, it's sexual assault."
posted by Sophie1 at 12:44 PM on October 8, 2016 [45 favorites]


Of course the hand-wringing is about holding onto power.

Yes there are true believers in the Republican party but for a lot if politicos it's a means to an end and Trump is threatening to be a massive boat anchor dragging them down.

Of course they also risk pissing off the toxic cesspool of alt-right shit heads who totally believe women and women's bodies are the god given right if men to own and police.
posted by vuron at 12:44 PM on October 8, 2016




Jesus is not eligible to vote in this election.

considering his nation of origin and his politics i doubt he'd be granted a visitation visa to the US much less citizenship.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:45 PM on October 8, 2016 [45 favorites]


The media and establishment want me out of the race so badly - I WILL NEVER DROP OUT OF THE RACE, WILL NEVER LET MY SUPPORTERS DOWN! #MAGA

God he's terrifying, isn't he. What does never mean here, anyway? Like not even when you've lost?
posted by dis_integration at 12:45 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think Sam Wang has it exactly right here:
In one common sentiment, catching Trump on tape bragging about groping women without consent is somehow a last straw that has caused supporters to desert him...
I would argue that this weekend’s public blowback is triggered by a growing realization of what will happen on November 8th. After the first debate, it became obvious that Trump was going to lose the general election. Clinton’s bounceback is small, but by modern (i.e. post-1996) standards it looks large. There isn’t enough time for opinion to shift back (for instance, within my random diffusion assumption), especially given the natural setpoint of the race (my Bayesian prior that assumes regression to the mean). In other words, people’s intuitions started telling them that time had run out for Trump...
Elected officials have a nose for the stench of a candidate who is on the cusp of becoming a loser. All along, Republican officials have been skittish about Trump, who executed a hostile takeover of their party. Now they have an excuse to jump ship.

posted by peacheater at 12:47 PM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]


Hillary Clinton has been in much tougher situations than having to shake the hand of Donald Trump. She's got this.
posted by The corpse in the library at 12:48 PM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]


Why on earth weren't they enough?

Rape culture.

Also the media being more interested in reporting on the campaign than on the policies and actions of the candidates. Like, I believe he probably would not have won the primary if the media had focused on his actual policies instead of the phenomenon of his campaign.

There has always been a lot of material available on his abusive misogyny, but it has been drowned out by horse race coverage. It only gets the attention it deserves when some incident gets enough traction to affect the race, and is therefore newsworthy. The same for his overt racism, which is not as newsworthy because there is not as much Republican outcry, and therefore, less effect on the race.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:49 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


Remind me not to get old.

We fight a lot of battles in MeFi over "-ist" language, and ageist barbs should not get a pass just...because.

I'm 53, don't know whether that qualifies as old to you or not, but I grew up with Nixon, and was a teenager and first time voter during the Reagan years. I've seen contentious elections before, and have heard both sides many times.
I'm happily, enthusiastically voting for Hillary and it absolutely has to do with my age, my experience and what i've lived through. if your father is an asshole, or you become as asshole as you get older that's on you, it has nothing to do with the aging process.
posted by OHenryPacey at 12:49 PM on October 8, 2016 [161 favorites]


Trump talking head on MSNBC: "Not one Democrat is denounced Hillary for Benghazi, for emails, for her talk about free trade and open borders"

Wow. Just. Fucking wow. Someone's desperately trying to earn their chutzpah merit badge.
posted by Talez at 12:49 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


You guys, what if the GOP has Ted Cruz change his name to "Donald Trump"??? Think about it!!!
posted by great_radio at 12:50 PM on October 8, 2016 [28 favorites]


I'm confused by the talk of "replacing Trump" on the ballot. Does the party "own" a spot on the ballot that they could have (had they done it earlier) swapped names in and out of at will? I thought people were nominated to run, sometimes by a party, but then it was the person who was on the ballot, not the the nominator somehow applied for a spot on the ballot they could fill with whomever.

So even if the Republicans decided they wanted to run someone else (where it earlier), they wouldn't be "replacing trump" on the ballot, they would be A) Publicly saying they did not endorse Trump and expelling him from their caucus and maybe even as a party member (this might still leave him listed as a republican candidate on the ballot, since it would still be accurate to say they nominated him and B) Nominating someone else (who would then (also) be listed as being nominated by the republican party).

Can you unnominate someone once you've petitioned to put their name on the balllot (I mean the form to get on the ballot is basically a petitiion, right?) I would think that even if republicans disavowed him and had done it months ago, his name would remain on any ballot it had already been approved for.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Remind me not to get old.

Bernie Sanders is old.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 12:53 PM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]


You guys, what if the GOP has Ted Cruz change his name to "Donald Trump"??? Think about it!!!

Pretty sure the nomination papers would include a DOB and address.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:53 PM on October 8, 2016


Hillary's campaign said they won't make a statement about Trump's casual discussion of sexual assault until the debate tomorrow.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:54 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


Editorial from the extremely conservative, LDS-owned Deseret News: In our opinion: Donald Trump should resign his candidacy
For 80 years, the Deseret News has not entered into the troubled waters of presidential endorsement. We are neutral on matters of partisan politics. We do, however, feel a duty to speak clearly on issues that affect the well-being and morals of the nation.

Accordingly, today we call on Donald Trump to step down from his pursuit of the American presidency.

In democratic elections, ideas have consequences, leadership matters and character counts.

The idea that women secretly welcome the unbridled and aggressive sexual advances of powerful men has led to the mistreatment, sorrow and subjugation of countless women for far too much of human history.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:54 PM on October 8, 2016 [108 favorites]


Ted Cruz adapts.
posted by vbfg at 12:55 PM on October 8, 2016


if only I had a penguin: see my comment above - short answer, no, the GOP can't replace Trump as nominee this late in the game.
posted by eustacescrubb at 12:55 PM on October 8, 2016


NYT Reporter Ashley Parker: This morning, Pence called Trump and told him he had to handle the next 48 hours alone. He didn't think he'd be an effective surrogate.
posted by cashman at 12:55 PM on October 8, 2016 [47 favorites]


Someday, in a time of greater bounty, I am going to come back to this thread and favorite all of these delicious comments. Maybe on election night after I've drunk my fill of champagne.

Donald's refusal to give in is going to tear the fabric of the Republican Party (the people who support Trump) from the elite standard-bearers. Everyone disavowing Trump from the stage is getting booed and heckled. If Trump won't drop out, the Party will end.
posted by sallybrown at 12:55 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


Does the party "own" a spot on the ballot that they could have (had they done it earlier) swapped names in and out of at will?

From a couple of months ago, not exactly. Besides, people are already voting, because all of the military ballots have already gone out.
posted by rhizome at 12:55 PM on October 8, 2016


Upset about whatever Hillary said about Paula Jones and Monica Lewinsky. Wait till they start playing tapes of what Trump said. So far the CNN has uncovered this nugget on Paula Jones.
posted by humanfont at 12:57 PM on October 8, 2016


humanfont, I think you posted the wrong soundcloud link. That's about a former Miss Universe Jennifer Hawkins, not Paula Jones.
posted by chris24 at 12:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Here's what happens if Trump drops out
What would happen is the party’s new candidate would essentially get the votes cast for the previous one. This is because when voters head to the polls, they’re not actually voting for a presidential candidate. Instead, they’re voting to select the representative that will represent their state at the Electoral College, which in turn meets in December to officially elect the next American president.

"When we go to the polls, we are not actually voting for the presidential candidates. We are voting for electors pledged to that person," Kamarck says.

This is why Clinton or Trump could theoretically still drop out at any point up to and including Election Day itself. It doesn’t even matter, technically, if the candidates’ names don’t appear on the ballots.

As screwy as it might sound, what matters is whose party’s Electoral College representatives end up with more votes. Those state electors are chosen by, and loyal to, the respective parties. It doesn’t matter which nominee the votes were intended for.

But there’s a catch: Some states make Electoral College representatives pledge to support a certain nominee

posted by T.D. Strange at 12:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


if only I had a penguin: see my comment above - short answer, no, the GOP can't replace Trump as nominee this late in the game.

Yes, I get that they can't this late in the game. My quesiton is about the word "replace". Could they EVER have "replaced" him once he got on the ballot (as opposed to choosing another candidate to endorse)? They don't own a spot no the ballot that they can just put a name on, do they? The can nominate someone else, but I don't see how that would un-nominate* Trump if his nomination* paperwork were in order, he would presumably remain on the ballot.

*By nomainte and unnominate, I mean file the paperwork that puts a person on the ballot, not "run a convention where you decide to nominate a candidate". Once the paperwork is filed and he's met the criteria/conditions/requirements to be placed on the ballot, Republicans officially unendorsing him or choosing another candidate, shouldn't remove him from the ballot.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:00 PM on October 8, 2016


I know Hillary can handle shaking his hand, that's not the point. The point is she shouldn't have to.
posted by corb at 1:00 PM on October 8, 2016 [41 favorites]


>Editorial from the extremely conservative, LDS-owned Deseret News: In our opinion: Donald Trump should resign his candidacy

Hey, this is really good.

"And although it speaks volumes about sexual morality, it goes to the heart of all ethical behavior. Trump’s banter belies a willingness to use and discard other human beings at will. That characteristic is the essence of a despot."

Fuckin' A.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:00 PM on October 8, 2016 [135 favorites]


In other words, people’s intuitions started telling them that time had run out for Trump...
Elected officials have a nose for the stench of a candidate who is on the cusp of becoming a loser. All along, Republican officials have been skittish about Trump, who executed a hostile takeover of their party. Now they have an excuse to jump ship.


If this theory is correct, and I believe there's a fair amount of truth behind it, then the scary thing is that all these people aren't jumping ship because their candidate, who had already been repeatedly accused of sexual assault, was recorded bragging about committing sexual assault, but rather because he was losing. And thus there will be little hope of stopping the next sexual predator before he's entirely too close to the Presidency.
posted by zachlipton at 1:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


From the Desnews, that is shocking. I am amazed, and delighted.
posted by Oyéah at 1:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Reporters-What about this latest allegation?

Pence-You know I'm not sure Trump is a real person. I think he might be a fictional character developed the liberal media. Besides if there was a Trump anything he said is less awful than Benghazi and deleted emails. Oh and won't someone think of the rights of the unborn?
posted by vuron at 1:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Donald J. Trump @realdonaldtrump
The media and establishment want me out of the race so badly - I WILL NEVER DROP OUT OF THE RACE, WILL NEVER LET MY SUPPORTERS DOWN! #MAGA

Jon Hendren @fart
man you got yelled at by tic tacs. this is not going well
posted by mattdidthat at 1:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [72 favorites]


An Open Letter To Donald Trump From Some Angry Women.
We seethe with anger when we read your tweet blaming military sexual assault on the fact that women are in the military.

We haven’t forgotten your lurid tweet about Hillary Clinton not being able to “satisfy” her husband.

Not only do you not understand women, you seem to have an awful lot of contempt for them. This is not fitting for a man who wants to be President in the 21st Century.

Which leads me to this:

Make America Great Again.

We know exactly what you meant when you branded yourself with this slogan. It’s not-so-coded language for a time gone by. Your “great” America wasn’t so great for women and minorities and gay people.

We won’t go back.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [65 favorites]


Madison-based reporter Jessie Opoien is live-tweeting the Wisconsin rally (i.e., the one at which Trump and Pence aren’t). So far, it sounds like most of the speakers aren’t mentioning their nominee by name; there is a loud contingent, but not a majority, of Trumpist hecklers. Ryan hasn’t started speaking yet.
posted by nicepersonality at 1:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Suggestion for the writers: write-in candidate mayhem. GOP officially recommends it but they still can't agree on a candidate. All 17 originals, minus Trump, plus Pence and Egg. There could be debates! The Republican Primary: Season 2.
posted by acidic at 1:03 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


A pleasant sight on Twitter is the Trumpistas proclaiming that they won't vote for any candidate who doesn't support the Groper-in-Chief. This is an attitude I wish to see widely adopted.

When does this weekend poll? For some reason, I am curious.
posted by Devonian at 1:03 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


Most of the polls will have set their schedule to align with the debate Sunday night, so the reaction to this and the debate will probably be bundled together in the next drop of poll results in a few days.
posted by zachlipton at 1:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Part of statesmanship (is it too clunky to say 'statespersonship'?) is shaking some guy's hand even though he may be a rat-bastard. You're gonna have to go talk to some shitty dictator, and you're gonna have to shake his hand; that's the job. Hillary will be perfectly fine shaking Trump's hand, and then mopping the God damn floor with him.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:05 PM on October 8, 2016 [30 favorites]


We fight a lot of battles in MeFi over "-ist" language, and ageist barbs should not get a pass just...because.

#NOTALLGEEZERS

I could go on about Trump in particular'sI and Republicans in general's support %s among senior citizens, or how about 75% of Free Republic is on Social Security, or various other details but in the interest of avoiding mod text I'll simply go with anecdata.

Twenty years ago, my dad (who is now in his 70s) was much more reachable and open to debate about things political. Now, he sits and devours his Facebook wall full of HILLARY LIES CHEATS STEALS BENGHAZI VINCE FOSTER EMAILS TREASON text walls and parrots them back because, frankly, he doesn't bother to think all that critically about the news any more. If I go upstate to my in-laws', I've learned to leave the room once the seniors gather because it's a Greek chorus of THAT OBAMA THINKS HE'S EMPEROR HILLARY IS EVEN WORSE DEMOCRATS ARE TREASONOUS AMERICA'S ALL GOING TO THE HOMOS AND MUSLIMS chatter.

The best part is that none of these seniors are, as far as I know, particularly jazzed at Candidate Trump but they _are_ patently terrified by Candidate Hillary. Because they have been carefully instructed to be.

So, yes, I am not calling for a Logan's Runesque purge of all seniors. But I do tire of seniors being sold a bill of goods by political machines and an uncomfortable percentage of them falling for it.
posted by delfin at 1:05 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


(is it too clunky to say 'statespersonship'?)

"Diplomacy"
posted by rhizome at 1:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


Meanwhile, Clinton rolls out an ad featuring Shane (twitter), a man Clinton met when he was a young man in foster care, she was the First Lady, and she asked him how she could help make the adoption and foster care system better.
posted by sallybrown at 1:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [29 favorites]


Where if you don't want somebody to win you can vote to negate a vote for them? We should have that in the US.

California has two ballot initiatives about the death penalty this year that negate each other. You can vote to outlaw the death penalty, but you can also vote to keep the death penalty (and also change some specifics of the law that affect exactly how the path to executing someone works). If you don't think critically and vote the same way on both (two yesses or two nos), your vote is cancelled out. It's confusing and weird. I really hope we never implement anything like this as the standard way to vote.
posted by Sara C. at 1:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]



I'm confused by the talk of "replacing Trump" on the ballot. Does the party "own" a spot on the ballot that they could have (had they done it earlier) swapped names in and out of at will?


This was covered briefly in the Josh Marshall post linked up thread. It comes down, as most stupid election things do, to the Electoral College. Since the actual vote in each state merely instructs the individual Electors who to cast their vote for, in the case of a candidate withdrawing the party would select a substitute and ask that the electors who were supposed to vote for DQ Candidate X instead vote for New Candidate Y when they cast their ballot.

In theory. Basically this can't happen for a shit load of reasons. The biggest probably being that ealy voting has already begun in some states. But also each state's election laws are different, so even in a case where a cadidate died before the election each state would have its own rules on what to do, plus the ballots have already been printed. It'd be a huge giant mess. But don't worry, it can't happen.
posted by Diablevert at 1:07 PM on October 8, 2016


Scottie Neil Hughes, a Trump surrogate, is full of (rotten) gems about the 2005 tape

- He was not running for office or pandering for support at this time
- He is part of a world that produces moves and books and songs that use this type of language
- Donnie is running for president for one reason only: this country has problems that only he can fix
-- Elaboration: he didn't want this office (11 years ago?) and he knows that America is in so much trouble, he needs to help
- A new story on a similar account from 2010, reported by Erin Burnett, which is also new to Scottie is something that Trump has not responded to, so she can't respond either
- No surprise that Trump "liked beautiful women" because he lived in that world, which we see in movies
- We need to hold Hollywood actors accountable now, too
- Pivot to "Bill Clinton did it too, when he was in office" (which made another woman, off-camera say "oh my god")
- "Mr. Trump apologized, he said this was wrong" [PERSONAL CORRECTION: HE DID NO SUCH THING. His "apologies" were first "I'm sorry if you were offended," then "I said a bad thing, and I'm sorry" - what bad thing, Donnie?], which "shows that he is evolving" (into what?)

Great response: people support him because "he speaks from the heart," and this is what he did here, which should scare people," and that he is "an irredeemable pervert, a predator," which elicited a gasp and head shake of denial from Scottie.

Lash yourself to this sinking ship, Scottie, so that it may take you down with it.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]


I do tire of seniors being sold a bill of goods by political machines and an uncomfortable percentage of them falling for it.

That's not the fault of the seniors, though.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


Paul Ryan speaking now - "We are giving the people choices"
Crowd member yells - "WHAT ABOUT TRUMP?!!?"
posted by cashman at 1:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


Ryan now speaking. [paraphrase] "I already told you what I think about Trump. So let's talk about local races! Okay! Y'know who's great? This guy, {local candidate}."

Totally tricked CNN who was set up waiting for him for hours.
posted by petebest at 1:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Someone just keeps yelling at Ryan after every other sentence - "what about Trump??!"
posted by cashman at 1:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]


CNN cuts away after 60 seconds of Ryan crapificating. Now peppering David Gergen with quesitons.
posted by petebest at 1:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


>Editorial from the extremely conservative, LDS-owned Deseret News: In our opinion: Donald Trump should resign his candidacy

A friend of mine pointed out on Facebook that most of the GOP members who were first to speak out against Trump on this were from Utah - Huntsman, Mike Lee, Jason Chaffetz, Romney....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Ryan's still talking, now there are multiple people yelling about Trump, asking if he still is giving his support to Trump. Ryan is now having to work Trump into his speech, replying "I don't think he (Trump) likes Obamacare either".
posted by cashman at 1:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


"This thing is in a death spiral."

Oh yes, but not the thing you think, you dead-eyed Randian ghoul.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Haha - literally one sentence of the only thing Ryan said about Trump, "There's an elephant in the room" is now the CNN chyron. Probably will be up for 30 minutes.

Now they're reading his statement from last night and talking about that. Y'all got hosed CNN.
posted by petebest at 1:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


But I do tire of seniors being sold a bill of goods by political machines and an uncomfortable percentage of them falling for it.

I think seniors are not as accepting of pussy grabbing as this condescension portrays, but even so, seniors are split fairly evenly between the parties.
posted by rhizome at 1:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Before vilifying all the old people, can we please remember that was Clinton's strongest age group during the primaries and will probably be one of her biggest constituencies going forward, too?

There are bad, foolish, wrong or don't-agree-with-me voters of all ages in both parties. It's not an age thing.
posted by rokusan at 1:13 PM on October 8, 2016 [26 favorites]


Please leave the 'old people suck' anecdata out of it. I've heard far more young bro dudes say things like 'grab them by the pussy' than I have men of my own age or older.
posted by Coda Tronca at 1:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [28 favorites]


. Since the actual vote in each state merely instructs the individual Electors who to cast their vote for, in the case of a candidate withdrawing the party would select a substitute and ask that the electors who were supposed to vote for DQ Candidate X instead vote for New Candidate Y when they cast their ballot.

So Trump's name would have remained no the ballot, but the party would have instructed his electors to vote for somebody else and hopefully (from the party's perspective) they would. AND the party would have put another name on the ballot and that person's electors would also vote for the new candidate?

But don't worry, it can't happen.


I wasn't worried. I was curious about how it worked. If you petitition to put Trump's name on the ballot, can you really turn around and say "I take it back" and get his name pulled OFF the ballot (that's the part I find hard to believe...that they could have added someone else if they'd done it months ago, I don't doubt, but pulling someone off seems like it should become nigh impossible 30 seconds after their name gets on, printed ballots or not).

And if they COULD somehow remove his name from the ballot (months ago), presumably that would require the SPECIFIC people who had signed the nomination petition to request that he be removed, right? And it's presumably the most ardent supporters who sign, in the case of a presidential candidate, so I can see how they could have (months ago) added another candidate, but it seems like even then "replacing" would have been impossible.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:14 PM on October 8, 2016


What's really disgusting is that NBC and the producers of the Apprentice have been sitting on this stuff for over a decade. Basically as long as Trump was making them money it was all good having to deal with Trump.

Leaking this now is NBC and others realizing that Trump collapsing in a flaming pile of excrement is preferable to continuing to empower him.

After all they can always get some other douchebro billionaire to be in charge of a new Apprentice. I suspect Mark Cuban would be willing to take the job.
posted by vuron at 1:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]


Katy Tur has a statement from Nancy O'Dell:
"Politics aside, I'm saddened that these comments still exist in our society at all. When I heard the comments yesterday, it was disappointing to hear such objectification of women. The conversation needs to change because no female, no person, should be the subject of such crass comments, whether or not cameras are rolling. Everyone deserves respect no matter the setting or gender. As a woman who has worked very hard to establish her career, and as a mom, I feel I must speak out with the hope that as a society we will always strive to be better."
posted by cashman at 1:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [33 favorites]


Leaking this now is NBC and others realizing that Trump collapsing in a flaming pile of excrement is preferable to continuing to empower him.

Helping to take him down is how NBC gets people to forget that they helped build him up.
posted by rhizome at 1:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]




I suspect Mark Cuban would be willing to take the job.

Cuban has been a vocal Trump critic, and has his own successful show already on ABC.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:19 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


gotta be tac tical
posted by Namlit at 1:19 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


Donald and Billy on the Bus by Lindy West [nyt]
posted by melissasaurus at 1:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]


After all they can always get some other douchebro billionaire to be in charge of a new Apprentice. I suspect Mark Cuban would be willing to take the job.

Ahnold already has dibs.
posted by Talez at 1:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Tic Tac is not usually a big political player, right? When you're getting disavowed by snack foods you know you've done something SERIOUSLY wrong.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [26 favorites]


Tic Tac is not usually a big political player, right? When you're getting disavowed by snack foods you know you've done something SERIOUSLY wrong.

First Skittles, now Tic Tacs? Who's next? Wonka Nerds?
posted by Talez at 1:22 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yes because Ahnold is clearly a step up in the morality department...
posted by vuron at 1:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


New Trump business model! Companies will now pay him to not mention their products or services.
posted by cmfletcher at 1:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [25 favorites]


I predict the ratings for tomorrow night's debate are going to smash the record ratings of the first debate.

Anyone want to guess what lessons the media will take from this record-breaking viewership?
posted by indubitable at 1:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


Well, it's taken me a while to get here today. And I'm just looking back at naive me from last week, chuckling at those collected Presidential quotes.

"I cannot tell a lie."
"Of the people, for the people, by the people."
"Ask not what your country can do for you."
"Check out sex tape." "Grab her by the pussy."


This is where we are in 2016. Wow. And it's only October 8th.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


OK, I am never going to catch up on this thread so I will share a thought that I hope hasn't been stated.

Trump finally has his excuse and lifeline for losing: the PC insider GOP. Before, his loss would have been chalked up to a rigged election and the crooked Clinton cabal. But now he can blame the the faithless, spineless party he embraced ... stabbed in the back. Not his fault, he had the biggest rallies, the most votes, the best polls .. until a few sniveling cowards in his own party caught the pc germ.

So if anything good comes of this whole sordid mess, maybe republicans turning on him will deflate the rigged election narrative.
posted by madamjujujive at 1:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [28 favorites]


“I did it, I was wrong and I apologize," Greg Stillson said of footage of him holding an infant in front of himself as a human shield that surfaced Friday.
And in closing, Stillson added ominously: "We will discuss this more in the coming days. See you at the debate on Sunday."


"Remind me not to get old.”

Doesn’t always work out. That survival instinct is a hell of a thing.
“Savor the fruit of life, my young friends. It has a sweet taste when it is fresh from the vine. But don't live too long. The taste turns bitter, after a time.”
posted by Smedleyman at 1:24 PM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]


Donald and Billy on the Bus by Lindy West

the essential bit: here is the thing, the big thing, that Paul D. Ryan and Reince Priebus and Mike Pence and all the spineless Billy Bushes of the world (and plenty of progressive men too, for that matter) don’t understand: Most of you are no better than Mr. Trump; you are just more subtle.

If you have spent your career brutalizing and dehumanizing women legislatively rather than personally, you are no better. If you were happy to overlook months of violent racism, xenophobia, transphobia and Islamophobia from the Trump campaign, but now you’re mad that he used a bad word and tried to sleep with another man’s wife, you are no better. If you have derided and stigmatized identity politics in an effort to keep the marginalized from organizing, you are no better. If you snicker or say nothing while your fellow men behave like Donald Trump, you are no better.

posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 1:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [66 favorites]


Companies will now pay him to not mention their products or services.

Didn't that actually happen with Abercrombie and Fitch and some guy from Jersey Shore?
posted by Coda Tronca at 1:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]




It would be a lot easier to replace him if he stepped down

Ugh. You can't replace someone on printed ballots, someone whom people have already voted for. That's not how voting works.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 1:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


I know Hillary can handle shaking his hand, that's not the point. The point is she shouldn't have to.

I think a joy buzzer has never been more called for.
posted by srboisvert at 1:29 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


We will prevail
posted by madamjujujive at 1:30 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


You guys the schadenfreude withdrawal is going to be HARSH come November 9th.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:30 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


@CahnEmily: If a pussy taking down @realDonaldTrump isn't the greatest irony of all time, I'm not sure what is.
posted by sio42 at 1:31 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


Jonathan Martin on Twitter: "Senior House GOP official tells me: "THE DAM HAS BROKEN" - Rank-and-file firing at will - Leadership talking, will find consensus tonight"

Just published in the NY Times: Lewd Donald Trump Tape Is a Breaking Point for Many in the G.O.P.
On Saturday morning, after monitoring cable television coverage over a 12-hour period, Mr. Trump realized he was becoming isolated by his party. His children were described as jolted with concern, and uncertain about how to advise their father to go forward in a political landscape they do not entirely understand. The campaign itself had become an isolated bubble. Mr. Trump’s aides closed down contact even with party leaders.

They did not explicitly ask top advisers and allies outside the campaign to do their usual defense of Mr. Trump’s comments, according to one person briefed on the discussions, but they did ask people to stand strong by his side. So far, however, none of Mr. Trump’s most ferocious defenders — Newt Gingrich, Chris Christie and Rudy Giuliani — had spoken in support of him. ...
Your outro music, Mr. Trump.

I will hide and you will hide
And we shall hide together here
Underneath the bunkers in the night

I have water, I have rum
Wait for dawn and dawn shall come
Underneath the bunkers in the night

posted by maudlin at 1:31 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


I wonder if this can push McMullin over the 15% mark and Trump below it.
posted by corb at 1:33 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Who?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:35 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


Egg McMuffin.
posted by Talez at 1:36 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Egg McMuffin?
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:36 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Egg McMuffin, CHT. edit (haha)
posted by waitingtoderail at 1:36 PM on October 8, 2016


First Skittles, now Tic Tacs? Who's next? Wonka Nerds?

Already endorsed Lawrence Lessig.
posted by rokusan at 1:37 PM on October 8, 2016 [25 favorites]


Him?
posted by EarBucket at 1:37 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


I guess that's why they call it Metafilter...
posted by Talez at 1:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


He's gonna go full Samson and say the whole thing's rigged and people shouldn't bother voting. Take down the party and give himself an excuse for the huge defeat.
posted by chris24 at 1:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Inside the RNC meeting
posted by cmfletcher at 1:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


So what's this "all Mike Pence events removed from Donald Trump website" news here? The campaign website schedule for him just says check back for updates where his upcoming appearances should be.
posted by deludingmyself at 1:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Lindy West hit that op-ed out of the park!!!! I love living in a world in which Lindy West and Roxane Gay write for The Gray Lady.
posted by sallybrown at 1:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


So what's this "all Mike Pence events removed from Donald Trump website" news here? The campaign website schedule for him just says check back for updates where his upcoming appearances should be.

My guess is that while Pence is torn up about whether or not he should resign his co-candidacy, Trump is having a temper tantrum that Pence hasn't defended him and said this is completely normal and that Trump wants to dump him and name someone else.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:45 PM on October 8, 2016




I found this on Pence's reaction, which is strange. How can Pence kick people out of a restaurant he doesn't own.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:47 PM on October 8, 2016


Scottie's also peddling the line that this was held onto until the Clinton emails got released, and is only being used as a distraction. Truly bunker mentality now.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 1:47 PM on October 8, 2016


Random question for Mitch McConnell: now that it's a foregone conclusion that the next president won't be the guy your party nominated, what about that whole Supreme Court thing you've sat on for 9 months?
posted by MoonOrb at 1:47 PM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]


On somewhat of an orthogonal note, MSNBC and CNN typically show random programming on Saturday afternoons and evenings. So their commercials are usually sandwiched between dateline variants and for CNN, similar content I can't currently recall. So now we've got all sorts of breaking news, lawmakers calling for their major party nominee to step down a month before the presidential election, and the commercials are so $19.99 COD not including shipping & handling, buy this Copper-plated underwear and get a second set of Copper-plated underwear free. It's just weird.
posted by cashman at 1:48 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


bald eagle is okay after getting stuck

What about his red-haired brother who got stuck in a locker room?
posted by Namlit at 1:48 PM on October 8, 2016


Schwarzenegger: As proud as I am to label myself a Republican, there is one label that I hold above all else - American.

You know it's bad when OTHER politicians elected after confessing to sexual assault are renouncing you.

After all they can always get some other douchebro billionaire to be in charge of a new Apprentice. I suspect Mark Cuban would be willing to take the job.

Ahnold already has dibs.


Der Gröpenfuhrer weighs in, eh?*

Nice.

In the link above, Trudeau is prescient. Der Gröpenfuhrer himself leads the investigation into his own alleged sexual assaults, so . . .
"Why on earth would any of your victims agree to talk to you?"
"Hello? I'm a big star -- they'll be thrilled!"

posted by Herodios at 1:50 PM on October 8, 2016


You guys the schadenfreude withdrawal is going to be HARSH come November 9th.

The biggest roller coaster ride will be over but the theme park never closes. Just because Trump loses doesn't mean that the people who think that his ideas on Muslims, immigration, law enforcement and war are GREAT are going away somewhere.
posted by delfin at 1:50 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


I really hope the Democrats can be relentless enough to corner the GOP on all the racist, sexist, evil garbage that WASN'T a dealbreaker. Not only should nobody be let off the hook for this dumpster fire, it would feed the idea that there was only one thing wrong with running an unstable, racist, Nazi-enabling, lying, narcissistic rapist.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:50 PM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]


Clearly McConnell intends to continue blocking appointments under Clinton because frankly obstruction has largely been a successful strategy for them.

I am hoping that the Democrats take the Senate so the current rule allowing for blocking SCOTUS nominees can go away.
posted by vuron at 1:51 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Pence's schedule on the Trump website was actually clear on Friday before the tape came out, so I don't think he's on strike. That's happened before: he's either been on emissary duty to the GOP, or held small private events with business leaders in various states.
posted by holgate at 1:54 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


I've been meaning to ask, does anyone know what the LD50 for schadenfreude is?
posted by Bringer Tom at 1:54 PM on October 8, 2016 [32 favorites]


holgate, that's what I was wondering, since I wasn't sure what his schedule looked like as of 24 hours ago.
posted by deludingmyself at 1:55 PM on October 8, 2016


Bringer Tom: 20 mg/kg, same as in town.
posted by Sublimity at 1:57 PM on October 8, 2016 [32 favorites]


Random question for Mitch McConnell: now that it's a foregone conclusion that the next president won't be the guy your party nominated, what about that whole Supreme Court thing you've sat on for 9 months?

If they think they can still keep the Senate after this election, I bet they'll try to wait it out indefinitely.
posted by indubitable at 1:57 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Clearly McConnell intends to continue blocking appointments under Clinton because frankly obstruction has largely been a successful strategy for them.

Obama has clearly been holding back on fighting the Senate's inaction. Avenues include filing a lawsuit as well as attempting to appoint a Justice without the Senate's explicit assent, which would then surely result in a lawsuit. I don't think the SCOTUS would take kindly to a Senate disallowing a replacement at their level indefinitely -- Roberts would know that it would weaken the SCOTUS for generations if they simply allowed nothing to happen.

I think Obama hasn't done these things because he didn't want to add unnecessary turbulence to the election. When (hopefully) President Clinton is faced with the same thing, expect a lot more wrangling.
posted by tclark at 1:57 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


Serious question: how do we direct our efforts towards the Senate? Chuck Schumer may have put up a terrible slate, but if there's any year when a terrible slate can give us the 50+1 we need to break the filibuster and get us some Supreme Court Justices, it's 2016.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Surely I can't be the only person waiting to see if some of these clowns have pointy hoods, can I?

Based on the "Clown lives matter" type comments in certain spots over on Reddit, I wouldn't be surprised.


It's pretty tone deaf and insensitive, but given that there's been multiple public statements - at least one by an actual sheriff for grodd's sake - calling for the use of deadly force against people in public in clown attire I can forgive some dumb behavior in the face of legit anxiety on the part of people who rely on being dressed that way in public for their livelihoods.
posted by phearlez at 1:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


You guys the schadenfreude withdrawal is going to be HARSH come November 9th.

i'm hoping for IndyRef 2: rejoin EU boogaloo to pass the time
posted by poffin boffin at 2:00 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


Next month we will grab you where it hurts. By your ballots.
- Lindy West

But will their hearts and minds follow?
posted by TwoToneRow at 2:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]






how do we direct our efforts towards the Senate?

Sit back. Drink lemonade. Listen to jazz music and the crickets chirping as the Republican voters stay home. Oh, and send donations, phone bank, and all that jazz if you want to but at this point I think the Senate is pretty much going the way the Prez does.

The House is iffier, but "iffy" wasn't even on the radar day before yesterday.
posted by Bringer Tom at 2:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


And Pence is off to a private fundraiser at Miramar, the Newport, RI mansion originally owned by someone who went down with the Titanic.
posted by holgate at 2:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]


Bringer Tom I've been meaning to ask, does anyone know what the LD50 for schadenfreude is?

You shot 236 lbs of schadenfreude, but you can only carry 200 lbs back to the wagon.
posted by deludingmyself at 2:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [59 favorites]


I have managed to avoid the video until just a moment ago and, man, now I'm still processing it. What a horror show. If Billy Bush isn't toast by the end of next week, well...

All I saw before this was that 'apology' ---- wherein he was seething. He was so angry at having to attempt to pretend contrition. He so hated reciting those lines. No wonder he flew off the rails halfway through. What an epic fail that was.

And yet here I am, watching this slow motion car wreck, jaws agape.
posted by y2karl at 2:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


Jon Ralston reports: Republican Governor of Nevada Brian Sandoval - "I cannot support him as my party's nominee"
posted by cashman at 2:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


I don't know if it's possible, but I could see Obama pushing a SCOTUS appointment post Election Day. Especially if it means the outgoing Senate will lose the majority, so they may take what he offers vs what Clinton does.
posted by mrzarquon at 2:03 PM on October 8, 2016


100% of perverts go back to their ways. Sadly, there is no cure -- Donald J. Trump [real]
posted by humanfont at 2:03 PM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]


You shot 236 lbs of schadenfreude, but you can only carry 200 lbs back to the wagon.

Well damn, the crows are going to be feeling awfully smug.
posted by Bringer Tom at 2:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


posted by phearlez people in public in clown attire

Juggalo-American is the preferred nomenclature.
posted by mattdidthat at 2:05 PM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]


CNN just had live coverage as Trump came out of Trump tower for about 25 seconds, threw his hands up as a few dozen supporters (per cnn) chanted his name.

James Taylor comes to mind. Line em up. Line em all up.
posted by cashman at 2:05 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Alternative "Grabsdem Flag"
posted by chavenet at 2:05 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


McCain's out, and mentions the Central Park Five comments too.

"I still supported him when he said he liked people who weren't captured, and I still supported him last night, but now that enough other Republicans have unendorsed, I guess it's ok for me to do it too." [fake]

What a joke McCain is.
posted by zachlipton at 2:05 PM on October 8, 2016 [31 favorites]


I don't know if it's possible, but I could see Obama pushing a SCOTUS appointment post Election Day. Especially if it means the outgoing Senate will lose the majority, so they may take what he offers vs what Clinton does.

Not happening. If the Democrats take back the Senate, they'll kill the filibuster for SC judicial appointments and Hillary nominates young, centre-left lions to replace Scalia, Ginsburg, and Breyer (and possibly Kennedy or Thomas if they say "fuck it, I'm out"). If the Democrats take the House as well, the filibuster probably goes away entirely and Clinton gets as much done in two years as humanly possible. She's probably got multiple binders of planned legislation just waiting to go out on day one.
posted by mightygodking at 2:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Unless the Senate enters recess and McConnell purposely avoids that there is no opportunity for a recess appointment.

What I unclear on is whether there is a mandatory recess between this congress and the next one and if Obama is still president during that transition.

That could be fun times
posted by vuron at 2:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


McCain's out, and mentions the Central Park Five comments too.
Phoenix, AZ– John McCain issued the following statement today withdrawing his support of Donald Trump:

“In addition to my well known differences with Donald Trump on public policy issues, I have raised questions about his character after his comments on Prisoners of War, the Khan Gold Star family, Judge Curiel and earlier inappropriate comments about women. Just this week, he made outrageous statements about the innocent men in the Central Park Five case.

“As I said yesterday, there are no excuses for Donald Trump’s offensive and demeaning comments in the just released video; no woman should ever be victimized by this kind of inappropriate behavior. He alone bears the burden of his conduct and alone should suffer the consequences.

“I have wanted to support the candidate our party nominated. He was not my choice, but as a past nominee, I thought it important I respect the fact that Donald Trump won a majority of the delegates by the rules our party set. I thought I owed his supporters that deference.

“But Donald Trump’s behavior this week, concluding with the disclosure of his demeaning comments about women and his boasts about sexual assaults, make it impossible to continue to offer even conditional support for his candidacy. Cindy, with her strong background in human rights and respect for women fully agrees with me in this.

“Cindy and I will not vote for Donald Trump. I have never voted for a Democratic presidential candidate and we will not vote for Hillary Clinton. We will write in the name of some good conservative Republican who is qualified to be President.”

Finally.
Sheesh.
posted by cashman at 2:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]


For "evangelicals" the only thing that matters is getting a conservative Supreme Court justice. They will never give up on Trump. This latest news will not bring him down.

Y'know...a misogynist shitstain like Trump surely has been involved in paying for (or, y'know, "insisting" on) an abortion at some time in his horrid life. I wonder how the evangelicals would feel about something like that? Or would they wave it away magically, chanting "It's in his past?"
posted by Thorzdad at 2:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


McCain's out, and mentions the Central Park Five comments too.

GOOD. I know there's a lot going on, but I feel like these disgusting and racist comments are not getting enough play.
posted by lalex at 2:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [63 favorites]


I imagine they'll rush to confirm whats-his-face before January if Dems win 50+1, no? I doubt Obama would retract his nomination (or if that's even possible?), but I would love it if he did and we could get a bad ass, lefty, forty year old feminist WOC in there.

That would be my schadenfreude fix for at least a few more months, in addition to making me genuinely happy.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:13 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


If someone comes across a list somewhere of all the people who have unendorsed or withdrawn support, please post it.
posted by cashman at 2:13 PM on October 8, 2016


McCain's out, and mentions the Central Park Five comments too.

So what do we think? 340 Clinton EVs? should we toss Iowa in there too for 346?
posted by dis_integration at 2:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Y'know...a misogynist shitstain like Trump surely has been involved in paying for (or, y'know, "insisting" on) an abortion at some time in his horrid life. I wonder how the evangelicals would feel about something like that? Or would they wave it away magically, chanting "It's in his past?"

He was a democrat back then.

He's actually been asked about this and declined to answer. I think I remember reading that he wanted Marla Maples to abort Tiffany and pressured her to do so. I have assumed this is not a thing the press has talked about because it would be incredibly hurtful to Tiffany that her father didn't want her and would be bringing something very private into the press, which feels a little icky.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:15 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


this footage from Trump's brief foray outside of Trump Tower just now is really something. Another view.
posted by acidic at 2:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


If someone comes across a list somewhere of all the people who have unendorsed or withdrawn support, please post it.

This Google spreadsheet is floating around Twitter, can't speak to its accuracy.
posted by sallybrown at 2:16 PM on October 8, 2016


schadenfrau, that would indeed be the sensible strategy if Congress is in session between the election and inauguration, but these assholes seem to have all the collective sense of crazy ants. It would be hilarious to get someone much more progressive on the court because the R's blocked Mr. Middle Ground so intransigently.
posted by Bringer Tom at 2:16 PM on October 8, 2016


If someone comes across a list somewhere of all the people who have unendorsed or withdrawn support, please post it.

This spreadsheet is one of the better such lists I've seen, and it appears to get regular updates.
posted by zachlipton at 2:16 PM on October 8, 2016


cashman: Link to google doc of unendorsements/withdrawn support.

(via edit window... damn, all ya'll are fast!)
posted by Freen at 2:16 PM on October 8, 2016




Andrew ProkopVerified account ‏@awprokop 5m5 minutes ago
McCain makes it 16 of 54 GOP senators who are not supporting Trump or have told him to drop out — nearly 1/3
posted by Devonian at 2:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I wonder how the evangelicals would feel about something like that? Or would they wave it away magically, chanting "It's in his past?"

Some have already waved away this mess by saying "that's when he was a Democrat".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:17 PM on October 8, 2016


I doubt Obama would retract his nomination

He's already said he won't do this.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


this footage from Trump's brief foray outside of Trump Tower just now is really something. Another view.

You can see the Secret Service desperately trying to survey the situation thinking "holy fucking shit why did I come to work today?"
posted by Talez at 2:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


There are enough people willing to support Trump in person (which is how he measures his success) that he will not ever, ever drop out.
posted by acidic at 2:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Someone pointed out a very good point:

The women who know Trump best all stand with their hands over their crotch when he's near.
posted by Talez at 2:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [53 favorites]




Alert: our very own Egg is on MSNBC.
posted by sallybrown at 2:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]




Link to google doc of unendorsements/withdrawn support.

Thank you sallybrown, Freen & zachlipton! (behold the field in which I grow my favorites. lay thine eyes upon it and see that it is barren)
posted by cashman at 2:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


posted by Talez You can see the Secret Service desperately trying to survey the situation thinking "holy fucking shit why did I come to work today?"

The Secret Service are protecting the crowd from Trump. He might grab women or shoot people on Fifth Avenue.
posted by mattdidthat at 2:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


My former Republican 73 year old mother shared this image on FB. That was a bit surreal this morning.
posted by threeturtles at 2:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [51 favorites]


Y'know...a misogynist shitstain like Trump surely has been involved in paying for, y'know, "insisting" on) an abortion at some time in his horrid life. I wonder how the evangelicals would feel about something like that? Or would they wave it away magically, chanting "It's in his past?"

The latter. Trump's own immorality is irrelevant as long as he promises to crack down on everyone else's moral choices. He is a useful tool for their ends, nothing more, nothing less.

See also: It's Okay If You're A Republican and The Only Moral Abortion Is My Abortion.
posted by delfin at 2:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I doubt Obama would retract his nomination (or if that's even possible?), but I would love it if he did and we could get a bad ass, lefty, forty year old feminist WOC in there.

I don't know, I hope that the nomination isn't withdrawn. Garland was willing to put himself through the ugly nomination process, I don't think we (ie, the left) should pull the rug out from under him just because it's convenient. It's not fair to him, and it sends a message to any potential Democratic nominees in the future.
posted by jcreigh at 2:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]




Worse?
As in Cameron-fucks-the-pig worse?
How is there worse?
posted by chavenet at 2:24 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


McCain is going to be live on CNN in a moment.
posted by cashman at 2:25 PM on October 8, 2016


Anti-Trump operative tells me 2 more big oppo hits coming. Says 1 is ~on par w/ 'p***y grab,' the other is worse. But no details. We'll see.

oh, goodness, I'm so full, I couldn't possibly ... well, maybe just a bit more, I wouldn't want it to go to waste
posted by Countess Elena at 2:25 PM on October 8, 2016 [169 favorites]


So what do we think? 340 Clinton EVs? should we toss Iowa in there too for 346?

Keep pushing like hell so it's a 374 maybe 380 landslide.
posted by Talez at 2:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


VP Debate Strategy brought to it's magnificent completion.

Tim Kaine: "He is asking everybody to vote for somebody that he cannot defend."

Mike Pence: "I do not condone his remarks and cannot defend them"

This, my friends, is what 11-dimensional chess looks like.
posted by Freen at 2:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [109 favorites]


How on earth has any media company that has ever filmed Trump for any reason NOT been digging through old tape since he's been the nominee?

Color me cynical/suspicious of the timing here. CNN et al. has made BIG money off Trump. The first debate had the highest TV ratings ever.

I suspect there are oodles (or several) more "bombshells" like this one that expose horrible, unexcusable behavior.

I.e. the cable TV networks (or the corporate and editorial decision makers) don't want him to win, for goodness sake, but they wanted to keep it as close as possible til October.
posted by mrgrimm at 2:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


McCain is going to be live on CNN in a moment.

McCain: "Winds forecast for 25mph east today, after months of a strong westerly breeze" [Fake-ish].
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


I'm gettin' all Mr. Creosote with the schadenfreude, here. I hope the next big oppo hit is waffer-theen.
posted by tclark at 2:27 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


From the Slate Live Blog on Trump's Implosion:

You have to wonder, watching the Trump campaign unravel, how he didn't see this coming. He knows the things he has said and done—what did he think was going to happen when he faced the kind of scrutiny that comes along with running for president? Well, according to a New York Post item unearthed by Mediaite early this morning, Trump did know the risks before he ran: in a 1999 interview with Chris Matthews, then of CNBC, Trump reportedly said, “People want me to [run for president] all the time … I don’t like it." And why not, Mr. Trump? Because: “Can you imagine how controversial I’d be? You think about him [Clinton] and the women. How about me with the women? Can you imagine?” Now we can.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 2:27 PM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]


don't know, I hope that the nomination isn't withdrawn. Garland was willing to put himself through the ugly nomination process, I don't think we (ie, the left) should pull the rug out from under him just because it's convenient. It's not fair to him, and it sends a message to any potential Democratic nominees in the future.
posted by jcreigh at 2:21 PM on October 8 [4 favorites +] [!]


I agree, with the large caveat that I think this possibility may have been baked into the nomination from the beginning. I don't think Obama or Garland went into it with the expectation that he would be confirmed, and I think it's possible that Garland's nomination in particular was part of a sacrificial political calculus. If Garland went in with an understanding I wouldn't be surprised to see him withdraw his own name, but that seems unlikely.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:29 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


AlonzoMosleyFBI, I suspect Trump thought the R's had the media environment pretty well wrapped up compared to how it was in 1999. And that would have probably been true if not for some Internet thingy that was just getting its feet wet in 1999.
posted by Bringer Tom at 2:30 PM on October 8, 2016


I'm surprised to see UT listed as so strongly red on FiveThirtyEight. The Morman church came out against trump ages ago and UT politicians were among the first to jump ship on Friday. I thought I remembered reading articles about how despite their conservatism, Utah's support for Trump was pretty weak. What am I misremembreing, what did I get wrong, or what changed?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:30 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I actually think it's more related to the fact that he was waiting for an optimally-weakened immune system within the R party to his style of demagoguery. But he didn't account for the fact that the same factors driving the party's implosion are deeply correlated to demographic shifts that have weakened the effectiveness of the R party's white supremacist underbelly in national elections.
posted by tclark at 2:33 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


I'm surprised to see UT listed as so strongly red on FiveThirtyEight.

I believe Egg is splitting the anti-Trump vote.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:35 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


I hope the really bad shit breaks like thirty minutes before the debate tomorrow.
America, ladies and gentlemen!
posted by angrycat at 2:35 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Then there is politics: The One Big Thing Paul Krugman Wants Trump And Clinton To Debate

Trump is despicable, and first of all a reality TV personality, but it is all distracting from the real issues.
posted by mumimor at 2:36 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Has anyone heard anything more about Trump saying he might talk to people tonight or tomorrow morning?
posted by lalex at 2:37 PM on October 8, 2016


"the women"

i would be amused by his habit of othering people by calling him "the ______", if it weren't so sad and frustrating.

oh hell, i'll be amused anyway. i'm going to vote for not just "pussies against trump", but "the pussies against trump".
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 2:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


what changed? Trump dangled a Mike Lee appointment, maybe to the Supreme Court, so Lee isn't saying anything, but Utah has some decorum at the upper echelons, there are some smart players here, even if the game is rigged. There is some discontent among women about their second class status in Utah, so having the powers that be continue to endorse a dedicated abuser of women is a last straw. They have to take the higher road, or else the populace might just get a mind of its own, and see they aren't well served by the local political machine, which is notoriously deaf.
posted by Oyéah at 2:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


mumimor: "Trump is despicable, and first of all a reality TV personality, but it is all distracting from the real issues."

LOL.
posted by chavenet at 2:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Misogyny and rape culture ARE REAL ISSUES.

Not that there aren't others. But you can't handwave this sort of shit away because of other stuff being important, too.
posted by stolyarova at 2:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [102 favorites]


I can't really believe (well ok I can) there will be anything additional out there that is worse than this. If there is, I hope it comes out in about ten days, giving all of those people inclined to stick by him through this the chance to do so.
posted by MoonOrb at 2:39 PM on October 8, 2016


it is all distracting from the real issues

no, actually, a presidential candidate's routine abusive misogyny is a real issue
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 2:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [78 favorites]


Ari Melber on MSNBC: "...this is horrible, but is it more horrible than advocating a national policy of religious discrimination, something that no nominee has advocated in the modern era... is it more horrible when he said to people at his rally that you can beat someone up and he'll pay their legal bills..."
posted by tonycpsu at 2:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]


How is there worse?

I can think of far worse. There is no limit with this guy. Think of the things he said about his own daughter when she was a minor.
posted by sallybrown at 2:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]


Mama Grizzly is still right-wingin' and bitter-clingin' to Trump. (Facebook post.)
posted by dhens at 2:40 PM on October 8, 2016


Trump dangled a Mike Lee appointment, maybe to the Supreme Court, so Lee isn't saying anything

Mike Lee is actually one of the people calling for Trump to step down as the nominee.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 2:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


I can think of far worse, of course, but the issue is what could there be on tape that is worse?
posted by Justinian at 2:40 PM on October 8, 2016


In Utah, there's a huge difference between 538's projections for Trump (50% of the vote) and the latest 4-way polls of Utah (34% plurality for Trump, 25% for Clinton; scroll down the page). But either way, Trump wins.
posted by Banknote of the year at 2:41 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


what could there be on tape that is worse?

CHECK OUT SEX TAPE? Like, a real one?
posted by stolyarova at 2:41 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


He owns hotels, and he thinks this way, you have to suppose there are some discernible links to trafficking. The big hotel in the Middle East, you have to know he knows what goes on in his place.
posted by Oyéah at 2:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


Not sure anyone would know this, but were any of the depositions in his divorce cases recorded on video? Depositions often are.
posted by sallybrown at 2:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


what could there be on tape that is worse?

N-word?
posted by longtime_lurker at 2:43 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


A Trump sex tape?

haven't we suffered enough
posted by yasaman at 2:43 PM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]


You know - you know he has a sex tape. And that he bragged about it and made everyone copies.

The petebest Times regrets the terror.
posted by petebest at 2:43 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]


Sex tape. Non-consensual.
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:44 PM on October 8, 2016


ugh it's going to be some Patrick Bateman staring-at-himself-in-the-mirror shit, isn't it?
posted by stolyarova at 2:44 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]


Yucktober Blerghprise
posted by tonycpsu at 2:45 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


My bet is striking a subbordinate.
posted by cmfletcher at 2:46 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I really hope to see the down ticket Democrats running ads of their opponents with their support of Trump timeline:

Everything terrible he's said up to their endorsement.
Their endorsement.
All the terrible things he says after their endorsement.
This specific thing.
Their change of endorsement.
"They ignored the warning signs until it was too late. How well do you think they'll act in your interest?" (cut to montage of global warming, etc)

They could literally do this for almost every Republican right now.
posted by mrzarquon at 2:46 PM on October 8, 2016 [58 favorites]


I think he is simultaneously too vain and too consumed with hatred for his own failing, imperfect body that there is little chance that he recorded himself having sex.

I think there is a non-trivial chance he recorded himself sexually degrading women in the Requiem For A Dream sense.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:46 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


If you don't want to get old, you have an alternative, but I don't recommend it. I'm old. Old enough to join AARP, months away from being able to start collecting Social Security at the early start reduced rate. I have white hair and a grandbaby.

I am less likely than an awful lot of people to have pre-conceived ideas. I battle racism, and a host of other -isms. I support Hillary Clinton, despise Donald Trump, etc. I am discriminated against at work on the basis of my age and gender. I am discriminated against in the job market because of my age and gender.

I'm pretty sure you had no intention of being a bigot. How can we help you grasp what that attitude means and how it perpetuates false beliefs and ugly behaviors about/against people who are not young?
posted by theora55 at 2:46 PM on October 8, 2016 [47 favorites]


Requiem For A Dream sense

I haven't seen the movie - what does this mean?
posted by stolyarova at 2:47 PM on October 8, 2016




Poppy Harlow is blowing this Trump supporter out of the water. She's pissed he tried to bring $10m from Saudi Arabia up as some sort of excuse.
posted by Talez at 2:48 PM on October 8, 2016


Worse:

A current mistress whom he is currently pressuring to get an abortion.
A police report of rape filed by Ivana way back when.
Current donations being funnelled to democratic candidates. (ok, maybe not worse, but pretty cynical).
A conversation in which he assures someone he will do X, Y, Z thing beneficial to Trump industries
A tape f him saying he will do nothing and the VP will run the show.
More/worse wierd sex comments about Ivanka.
Weird sex comments about Tiffany, from when she was a minor.
Sex advice given to Donald Jr.
In bed (figuratively) with Saudi Arabia or China.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:49 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


He walked out of Trump Tower and only heard the cheers, not the boos. He actually thinks he'll survive this.
posted by humanfont at 2:49 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


What could be worse?

He manages to offend white men without college degrees.
posted by MoonOrb at 2:49 PM on October 8, 2016 [52 favorites]


Here you go America
posted by melissasaurus at 2:51 PM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]


Misogyny and rape culture ARE REAL ISSUES.

Not that there aren't others. But you can't handwave this sort of shit away because of other stuff being important, too.


Sorry, this thread is endless, and I can understand if people haven't seen my comments above. I'm the last person to handwave anything here.

I do think that it is strange that this particular video is what brings Trump down - given the blatant racism, misogyny, fascism and pandering to the people who are raping our world. As stated above, I saw from day one that Trump is an abuser and a fraud, and I find it hard to understand that the Republican party and the punditry only found out about this just now. What I think is that they all knew all along, and that they only now have to address it. Meanwhile, he was a cover for their intent to defraud the American people and the rest of the world.
posted by mumimor at 2:51 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


He manages to offend white men without college degrees.

A recording of him saying he hates beer and football?
posted by stolyarova at 2:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


The only worse things would, alas, have to be in his own voice and of a grotesque sexual nature. I would guess something about his daughters or some other underage girls. Or some kind of sex trafficking.
posted by argybarg at 2:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


I am going to buy popcorn for tomorrow, have to have it. This will be monumental. Right now I wonder who is going to debate for the Republican side?
posted by Oyéah at 2:52 PM on October 8, 2016


what could there be on tape that is worse?

N-word?


Judging by how his past grossly racist statements failed to torpedo him, I am really afraid it's not just this, but this used against someone like our President. Which...this is a bad idea to even think about because I'm getting so angry, even though this is effectively what the birther movement was.
posted by sallybrown at 2:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


I agree completely, mumimor. The Rs knew exactly what kind of horse they brought to the race.
posted by stolyarova at 2:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


What could be worse?

He manages to offend white men without college degrees.


All the uneducated hicks in the United States are S.O.B.s
posted by Talez at 2:53 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


stolyarova: e.g., likely trafficked women forced to perform in a sexually degrading way at a party
posted by schadenfrau at 2:53 PM on October 8, 2016


Condi Rice breaks her silence: "Enough! Donald Trump should not be President."
posted by stolyarova at 2:55 PM on October 8, 2016 [29 favorites]


What could be worse?

Honestly, my guess is Nazi fetish.
posted by mrgrimm at 2:55 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


at a party, oh yeah, some peek into a room, to show what he offers his high rollers.
posted by Oyéah at 2:56 PM on October 8, 2016


Oh Trafficking! I think given his involvement in modelling and such, this is where I'd put my money. He brought women into the country illegally, to do things they did not know they were going to be doing, and then sexually assaulted one of more of them while here.

That's totally a thing it seems like he would do, and it would definitely be worse.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:56 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


Maybe Trump will end up seeking asylum in the Ecuadorian embassy.
posted by gwint at 2:57 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


Holy shit the Trump shit on CNN is actually dragging Huma into the debate with conspiracy bullshit.
posted by Talez at 2:57 PM on October 8, 2016


Or some kind of sex trafficking.

See this Daily Kos investigation into trafficking in his modeling agency.
posted by sallybrown at 2:57 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


What could be worse?

Best guess is some sort of undeniable recording of him referring to his supporters as rubes or worse.
posted by Mooski at 2:57 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


Dammit I got more favorites for like five minutes and then they were all gone.
posted by corb at 2:57 PM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]


The book about Jeffrey Epstein hits the bookshops on Monday, no? Trump hasn't used any of the Epstein allegations against Bill Clinton because Trump participated too.
posted by saucysault at 2:58 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


The comments under that Condi post are incredible.
posted by waitingtoderail at 2:58 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


For "evangelicals" the only thing that matters is getting a conservative Supreme Court justice. They will never give up on Trump. This latest news will not bring him down.

Not to defend right wing evangelicals too hard or anything, but there are plenty of self-professed liberals in this very thread who are fine with electing fracking lobbyists to the Senate as long as it gets them the majority needed to approve Supreme Court justices. They have a goal and they're sticking to it.
posted by indubitable at 2:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


Best guess is some sort of undeniable recording of him referring to his supporters as rubes or worse.

He's Lonesome Rhodes and this is the end of A Face In The Crowd, then? I'll roll with that. I called it in March!
posted by stolyarova at 2:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]




Reading these mega threads and really appreciating all the comments and links. Have to chime and say that I feel bad for Tic Tacs--I have always loved them since they are one of the few remaining minty products that still use sugar as an ingredient.
posted by nikitabot at 3:00 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


The comments under that Condi post are incredible.

Those are the 27%. #Deplorables
posted by zakur at 3:00 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Holy shit the Trump shit on CNN is actually dragging Huma into the debate with conspiracy bullshit.

r/the_donald finally caught up to the tape story and this is the shit they're going with. Hilary stuck by Huma so Anthony Wiener makes her the same as Trump, Hilary led the witch hunt for Bill's accusers, Bill is a rapist too, etc. There's a direct pipeline from the feverswamp to actual Trump surrogates on national TV.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


> See this Daily Kos investigation into trafficking in his modeling agency.

Well fuck, I hope this gets more attention now with this latest news cycle.

As I shared with a friend this morning, I hope this changes the definition "To Trump" - now meaning to crater so horribly it is to scorch the earth of any value associated with said person, out of pure hubris and arrogance.
posted by mrzarquon at 3:01 PM on October 8, 2016


what could there be on tape that is worse?

tbh i assume it is some kind of material evidence in the rape case, a tape or DNA or something pretty fucking conclusive.

i hope melania has the world's top legal minds looking over her prenup right now
posted by poffin boffin at 3:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


As I said in the comments there, that dKos diary linked by sallybrown is some of the best independent long-form journalism I've seen in a long time.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:02 PM on October 8, 2016


Dammit I got more favorites for like five minutes and then they were all gone.

I think it's a rolling 24-hour limit so your eligibility to add favorites is recalculated continuously as old favorites fall out of the daily window. (? -- I'm a favorites miser and so I've never hit this purported limit....)
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Sign spotted in the crowd: ICKY TRUMP

Well done, sir or madam, well done.
posted by mattdidthat at 3:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [30 favorites]


All Mike Pence events have been removed from the Trump website.

Already debunked.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Oh and my personal favorite, the left loves sexual depravity when it's LGBT, so why are they upset about Trump's sexual misconduct. Waiting for that one to make it out of Pierson's mouth later today.

*- should've made this one comment, didn't want to add content with edit function
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


also man is this gonna be tomorrow's debate thread too? i hope not
posted by poffin boffin at 3:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


That time he tried to expose himself to Gloria Allred to make a point about why a transgendered woman shouldn't be allowed to participate in Miss Universe.
posted by humanfont at 3:03 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


ICKY TRUMP

They're selling those on the White Stripes website. T-shirts at least.
posted by waitingtoderail at 3:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]




also man is this gonna be tomorrow's debate thread too? i hope not

Being discussed here if you want to weigh in.
posted by lalex at 3:06 PM on October 8, 2016


This is my chance to say I fucking called it
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Time for Republicans and anyone else who doesn't want Clinton elected to get behind Johnson/Weld. We're your only hope.

(related: Libertarians watching the news today)
posted by Jacqueline at 3:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I feel kind of dirty playing the "what next" game, but my bet is drugs. Something actionable regarding his former helicopter pilot/drug supplier for his high rollers.
posted by instamatic at 3:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


"And what is 'time'?" Gary Johnson
posted by sallybrown at 3:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


The GOP was in in its death spiral the minute they ignored every lesson they came up with in the post-mortems after the Romney campaign and decided what they really wanted was a racist, sexist, rapist, multiple-bankruptcy-declaring, Kraft-macaroni-looking failure with very sketchy ideas about his own daughter as the face of their national party.

Sadly, convervatism can never fail, it can only be failed. The no-true-Scotsman defenses will come fast and furious come November. They'll shove this down the memory hole as soon as possible.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 3:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [31 favorites]




Kellyanne Conway hasn't tweeted for thirty six hours. She's never gone without tweeting for that long.
posted by Talez at 3:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


Man, I have to say I'm loving Nica-born Ana Navarro right now (@ananavarro) who is tearing it up.
posted by corb at 3:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


(related: Libertarians watching the news today)

Huh? Why is this (presumably) libertarian child looking on nonchalantly as taxpayer funds are illicitly used by government firefighting units to extinguish a housefire? WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [31 favorites]


I have never voted for a Democratic presidential candidate and we will not vote for Hillary Clinton. We will write in the name of some good conservative Republican who is qualified to be President.”

And who the fuck would that be? Every one of those who attempted to get the nomination were also deplorable and proud of it. McCain had Sarah Palin for a running mate for fuck's sake.

You have to wonder, watching the Trump campaign unravel, how he didn't see this coming.

Not really. All the other deplorable bullshit he's been saying and peddling has done little to nothing in terms of consequences and just made very public what the Republican party has been peddling for years. It's great that this is something that finally appears to be having consequences (though I'll only believe it once the election results are final), if the Republicans condemning him for this and nothing else get away with using this to continue their vile, hateful rhetoric and policies this will not nearly have the affect it deserves. I don't believe the Republicans will even address rape culture outside of condemning Trump for it either.
posted by juiceCake at 3:10 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Not to defend right wing evangelicals too hard or anything, but there are plenty of self-professed liberals in this very thread who are fine with electing fracking lobbyists to the Senate as long as it gets them the majority needed to approve Supreme Court justices. They have a goal and they're sticking to it.
posted by indubitable at 2:59 PM on October 8 [+] [!]


You seem to be simultaneously drawing an equivalence between women protecting their fundamental rights to their own bodies and some people's desire to take away those fundamental rights and between lobbying for fracking and admitting to sexual assault on national television.

Those are monstrous comparisons.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:10 PM on October 8, 2016 [51 favorites]


Time for Republicans and anyone else who doesn't want Clinton elected to get behind Johnson/Weld.

And what is a jon sin welled?
posted by zakur at 3:10 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


"And what is 'time'?" Gary Johnson

More like, and where is Aleppo?
posted by chavenet at 3:10 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Conway has been in Trump Tower for the past two days, presumably doing her job.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:11 PM on October 8, 2016


For folks who need a mind cleanse after the trump video, may I suggest Pant Suit Power?

This is what makes me hopeful for progressivism - diversity and tolerance always has more potential than isolationism and fear.
posted by mrzarquon at 3:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]


What time is Aleppo?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Huh? Why is this (presumably) libertarian child looking on nonchalantly as taxpayer money is illicitly used by government firefighting units to extinguish a housefire? WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE

Who says those have to be government firefighters? Where I live, we have a volunteer fire department that does its own fundraising.
posted by Jacqueline at 3:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


What time is Aleppo?

Half past Merkel!
posted by chavenet at 3:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]




diversity and tolerance always has more potential than isolationism and fear.

It's just way more fun.
posted by Miko at 3:13 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


mrzarquon, a few hours ago, I had to nope out of this thread. I watched the pant suit flash mob and sobbed for a few minutes. Then I tapped back in.
posted by instamatic at 3:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


In this momentary lull, I will just note that if I ever meet David Fahrentholt, I will get down on one knee and propose to him.
posted by sallybrown at 3:15 PM on October 8, 2016 [23 favorites]


corb: Dammit I got more favorites for like five minutes and then they were all gone.

I thought for a minute you were complaining about favorites that had been given to you instead of favorites to hand out and was astonished at the change from humble-yet-scrappy corb to queen-of-the-universe corb.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


Fahrentholt is he the guy who released the tape? He should be up for next years Nobel Peace Prize.
posted by Oyéah at 3:16 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


Remember when Mark Cuban was enough to psych Trump in the debate? This time Hillary should fill one seat with Skittles, one with Tic Tacs and the rest with adorable kittens staring him down.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]


> @LindseyGrahamSC: "Name one sports team, university, publicly-held company, etc. that would accept a person like this as their standard bearer?"

Penn State.
posted by at by at 3:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [27 favorites]


Guy Gavriel Kay is hands-down my favorite author, and I was a little nervous when I first looked up his Twitter, because you never know how authors you love will turn out to be in the real world. As it turns out, he's built up a world view that seems to make sense for a man who does his research, and it makes me so happy.

I love that his political tweets today have been mixed up with his discussion of Moby Dick. It's so perfect.
posted by Sequence at 3:18 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


Fahrentholt's got the Pulitzer sewn up, at least.
posted by vibrotronica at 3:18 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


Fahrentholt is he the guy who released the tape? He should be up for next years Nobel Peace Prize.

He's the guy who published the tape. He's also the guy who has dug up literally everything that is known about the Trump Foundation and Trump's non-donations to charity.
posted by Francis at 3:19 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


Man, some of my FAcebook friends are on fire today. Another quote:

"The Republican party has gone from being the Party of Lincoln to being the Party of Neville Chamberlain."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:19 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'm back, baby. I'll be canvassing for Hillary tomorrow morning. Hope this tape throws shade on Marco Rubio, too, because all these chumps have been working against women's rights for so long, it's time for us to clap back.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 3:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


At the risk of tempting the wrath of the whatever from high atop the thing:

I really hope that when Trump makes his concession call late on Nov. 8, Clinton refuses to take it.

(I doubt Trump will make the traditional concession call, but a person can dream.)
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 3:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


@robwhisman: it's sad how seriously we're taking stuff trump said 11 years ago. also a bunch of dead dudes said i could bring my shotgun into this kroger

And this article x a billion:

Mr. Trump is rape culture’s blathering id, and Sunday night Hillary Clinton (who, no doubt, has just as many man-made scars as the rest of us) has to stand next to him on a stage, and remain unflappable as she’s held to an astronomically higher standard, and pretend that he is her equal while his followers persist in howling that sexism is a feminist myth. While Mr. Trump boasts about sexual assault and vows to suppress disobedient media, cable news pundits spend their time taking a protractor to Mrs. Clinton’s smile — a constant, churning, microanalysis of nothing.
posted by NorthernLite at 3:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [56 favorites]


Fahrenthold

Make sure his name is spelled right on the Pulitzer.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


> • Deny innocence of Central Park Five

In case anyone missed it: Trump Will Never Put Himself in Your Shoes. Period. Even if you were wrongfully convicted and exonerated by DNA evidence.
posted by homunculus at 3:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


Update on the giant Trump sign (from my earlier comment) - it's gone! The posts are still there, so someone probably stole it. Yay.

EmpressCallipygos, you were totally right :)
posted by insectosaurus at 3:22 PM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]




oh my gosh nineteen whole states those Libertarians sure are adorable
posted by mightygodking at 3:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


Fahrenthold is he the guy who released the tape? He should be up for next years Nobel Peace Prize.
posted by Oyéah at 3:24 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm now on a mission to run out of favourites. I once hit the Facebook like limit when trying to each it about Rugby League.
posted by vbfg at 3:25 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Instead of tic tacs for the debate, Hillary really needs to find herself a cat brooch
posted by saucysault at 3:25 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


In case the #Trumptape has purged your memories of the last two weeks don't forget:
-Machado/Miss Universe
-Trump Charity has been shut down for fraud pending audits.
-Trump violated the embargo on Cuba
-Central Park 5
-PTSD Vets are weak
-Child rape lawsuit refiled and allowed to proceed
-All the sexual harassment on the The Apprentice
-Trump claims Mexican criminals are being given citizenship on the fast track to vote for Clinton.
-Hurricane Matthew is a democratic conspiracy.
posted by humanfont at 3:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [47 favorites]


It would be pretty awesome if he ran again, next time. I think he should just keep running every four years.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 3:27 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]




Libertarians watching the news today

Yeah, but your candidate is still a moron who can't name a single foreign leader and has no idea what Aleppo is and doesn't think that's a problem because isolationism. Johnson is just as shockingly unqualified as Trump, but for different reasons. (Watching Gary Johnson try to answer any foreign policy questions)
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 3:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [34 favorites]


Who says those have to be government firefighters? Where I live, we have a volunteer fire department that does its own fundraising

A subject I know something about, being close friends with a whole extended family of volunteer firefighters in a rural southern community: MOST of that "fundraising" is filing applications in pursuit of state and federal grants for equipment and training. "Volunteer" fire departments are deeply publicly subsidized in every way but paying salaries. You don't pay for modern hazmat gear and S&R training with an annual barbecue.

So not really any sort of example of a mythological libertarian principle. Without federal money you'd have volunteer firefighters showing up in pickup trucks.
posted by spitbull at 3:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [127 favorites]


oh my gosh nineteen whole states those Libertarians sure are adorable

"Adorable" sure is an interesting way of spelling "fiscally sensible." We don't have a lot of money and we want to help take that fucker down so we've got to spend it where we believe it will have the greatest impact on the outcome.
posted by Jacqueline at 3:29 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


mightygodking: All Mike Pence events have been removed from the Trump website.

Actually nothing was removed. Via the Wayback machine, as of Friday morning, only 2 Friday events were listed, nothing beyond that. As of this morning, both of those were gone, as you would expect. Possibly it is significant that nothing new has been added. But as of Saturday Oct. 1, there were only two Pence events listed. His events don't seem to be posted as far in advance as Trumps and there are not as many of them.
posted by beagle at 3:31 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I almost (*almost*) feel sorry for Melania. They're shoving her out there to tell people to still vote for her creep of a husband. I mean, I get the feeling that all she ever wanted was to lay around on a yacht eating caviar for every meal and giving the occasional handy, and now she's being forced to play the apologist for a 70-year-old groper.

Then again, she did choose him, so, yeah. Feeling of sympathy fading.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 3:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]


Speaking of which, what do you think is going through the mind of Kellyann Conway right now?

Kellyanne and the Steves right now
posted by ckape at 3:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


The Mercer family, GOP mega-donors, stand by Trump and describe the video as "locker room braggadocio." (twitter)

Rebekah Mercer is a very close friend of Kellyanne Conway. I wonder if the trade-off was "the money stays as long as you listen to Ms. Conway"?
posted by sallybrown at 3:33 PM on October 8, 2016


I saw Kellyann and the Steves at Summerfest '89
posted by Countess Elena at 3:33 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Honestly, with Johnson, I'm more worried about his policies of dismantling the FDA and DoEd, since I could see a Republican House aiding and abetting that effort.

I like having educated citizens and clean food.
posted by Archelaus at 3:33 PM on October 8, 2016 [39 favorites]


Clinton has generally been polling better in two-way polls rather than four-way ones, so I think constantly talking up Johnson could really be helping Trump get elected.
posted by peacheater at 3:34 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]




I realize that all y'all are not going to agree with the Johnson/Weld ticket on a lot of things but I think we can all agree that Republicans voting for Johnson/Weld is a big improvement over Republicans voting for Trump, no?

We Libertarians want to take Trump down almost as much as the Democrats do. We want the Republican Party to die so we can take its place.
posted by Jacqueline at 3:37 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]


Who says those have to be government firefighters? Where I live, we have a volunteer fire department that does its own fundraising.

it's nice that your community is able to raise funds for this but whether or not one dies in a fire should not depend on their personal wealth.
posted by poffin boffin at 3:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [106 favorites]


"locker room braggadocio."

If I spent much time in a locker room I'd be calling this out so hard. So the next Clinton ad I really hope to see is an army of well-known athletes, male and female, in their locker rooms saying with voice and body that there is no appropriate place for that kind of talk.
posted by Miko at 3:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [30 favorites]


We don't have a lot of money and we want to help take that fucker down so we've got to spend it where we believe it will have the greatest impact on the outcome.

I must say that's a very roundabout way to get money to the Clinton campaign, then. (Assuming you meant the ACTUAL best way to take down Trump.)(
posted by dhens at 3:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


As someone who feels federal government oversight and regulation is a great thing that keeps our food, environment, markets, and lives in general safer and better, I don't find anything positive about people voting a libertarian ticket.
posted by sallybrown at 3:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [72 favorites]


I suppose I'll allow that Rs voting J/W is still better than Rs voting Trump, and I won't exactly cry a river if they split the vote out that way, but I'd vastly prefer if we move the ol' Overton window in a -more- acceptable direction, and I honestly see the Libertarian party's usual line as a -less- acceptable one over rank and file Republicans who are -not- Trump.
posted by Archelaus at 3:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


>I'm surprised to see UT listed as so strongly red on FiveThirtyEight. The Morman church came out against trump ages ago and UT politicians were among the first to jump ship on Friday. I thought I remembered reading articles about how despite their conservatism, Utah's support for Trump was pretty weak. What am I misremembreing, what did I get wrong, or what changed?

First off, I'm pretty sure the LDS Church hasn't taken an official position on Trump--they never do on political candidates. Rather the chatter here and elsewhere has been that many, many individual Mormons are very uncomfortable with Trump. When I talked to my own Utah-area relatives this summer, when anyone happened to mention Trump there was a literal flood of anger in the room. Nobody would admit to voting for him. This among a group that was probably 95-100% for Romney in 2012 and generally 90% or higher Republican voters.

(FYI nobody would cop to supporting Hillary either--they were all looking for alternatives and didn't like any of Clinton, Trump, Johnson, or Stein. Thus the potential appeal of McMullin to this type of voter.)

So, the the sea-change in Utah is indeed huge this year--but to understand it you have to understand where the state is coming from.

Davis County, a suburban-ish county just north of Salt Lake City where I grew up, was once identified as the most Republican county in the U.S. Not sure if it's true any more, but it's in the running for certain. One of the first political happenings I can remember is when they sent Dan Quayle to Davis County after he stuck his foot in his mouth one time, because they were certain Quayle would get a positive reception in Davis County, no matter what . . .

In 2012, 538's forecast for UT was 100% Romney & the actual general election vote was 73% Romney to 25% Obama.

So that's a baseline of like +48% R.

This year, there have been a couple of polls showing Hillary up by 1-2% and a few more showing Trump & Clinton in a dead heat. Clinton winning Utah is unlikely to be the final result, but there probably hasn't even been a SINGLE poll showing the Democratic Presidential candidate up in Utah in, I don't know, maybe 50 years?

So just the fact that the race is close enough to produce a couple of outlier polls showing Clinton up is already major news, and a major change.

Right now, 538 has Utah at 51% Trump, 36% Clinton. So +15% R.

That is a gain of 33% for Dems in Utah for 2016 vs 2012--and with recent developments, the race is pretty likely to tighten some more.

A swing of 30-40% in a state from one presidential election to the next is really huge change--whether or not it actually results in a swing from one party to another.

We'll see whether the end result is long-range change in the balance of parties in Utah, though. I think it would be very good for the state to have more of a balance between the two parties rather than being essentially a one-party state. But I don't have very high hopes for long-lasting change.

TL;DR: Dems were down 48% in 2012 in Utah, now they're down maybe 5-15%. So--a huge swing in just 4 years, even though it's all within the Red half of the field.
posted by flug at 3:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [17 favorites]


I don't find anything positive about people voting a libertarian ticket.

i mean there is some minimal entertainment value but not in a hellmouth year like this
posted by poffin boffin at 3:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [17 favorites]


I realize that all y'all are not going to agree with the Johnson/Weld ticket on a lot of things but I think we can all agree that Republicans voting for Johnson/Weld is a big improvement over Republicans voting for Trump, no?

Honestly I would rather that they were just sufficiently despondent not to show up at all than that they hold their nose and vote for y'all.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:41 PM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]


The only things I've heard in the locker room are two guys discussing how much shaving is a pain in the ass and the sound of an old guy blow drying his junk.
posted by schoolgirl report at 3:41 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


Bill Pruitt on Twitter: As a producer on seasons 1 & 2 of #theapprentice I assure you: when it comes to the #trumptapes there are far worse. #justthebegininng

Paging Omarosa. Paging Omarosa.


So awesome of him to release it earlier! oh wait...
posted by dhens at 3:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


it's nice that your community is able to raise funds for this but whether or not one dies in a fire should not depend on their personal wealth.

75% of firefighters in the US are volunteers. Pretty much anywhere outside of a major metro area is at least partially served by volunteers.
posted by COD at 3:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I realize that all y'all are not going to agree with the Johnson/Weld ticket on a lot of things but I think we can all agree that Republicans voting for Johnson/Weld is a big improvement over Republicans voting for Trump, no?

Your larger point, that Johnson and Weld are better human beings than Trump, and perhaps less likely to lead us into nuclear war with Russia and mass deportations is well-taken, but Republicans voting for Johnson/Weld could lead to a Johnson/Weld Presidency, which would be quite dreadful, while Republicans voting for Trump looks like it's going to lead to a Hillary Clinton Presidency, which is likely to be pretty freakin' sweet.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Trump got his phone back and is retweeting comments from Juanita Broadderick.
posted by lalex at 3:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


[Enough on the libertarian derail, Johnson not knowing Aleppo is old news and there is enough new news happening in this thread to require all mod attention. No argument retreads.]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]


So I was nosing around 538 and found my way to the "Updates" link on the sidebar of the presidential forecast page. This is a helpful reminder that the stats that have Trump completely tanking in the polls are from midweek.
posted by Sublimity at 3:44 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


Sunday night Hillary Clinton (who, no doubt, has just as many man-made scars as the rest of us) has to stand next to him on a stage

I think she should use the word "grab" as frequently as possible. As in, "You can't just reach out and grab the presidency because you're a rich man. You have to earn the trust of American voters."

See if he flinches, waiting for the words after grab.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 3:45 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


Hil-A-Ree
(Get some rest, soon to be my Madame President.)
posted by angrycat at 3:45 PM on October 8, 2016


Trump is retweeting stuff about Bill Clinton being a rapist and Hillary defending him now. The town hall is going to be a dumpster fire of epic proportions.

(sees mod note. sowwy :( )
posted by Justinian at 3:46 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Jack Welch is done with Trump.
posted by glhaynes at 3:47 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]




For folks who need a mind cleanse after the trump video, may I suggest Pant Suit Power?

This is what makes me hopeful for progressivism - diversity and tolerance always has more potential than isolationism and fear.


ZOMG this is wonderful, thank you. Can we just all talk for a minute about how JOYFUL this is? This is the America that I believe in: all people joining together to dance, while a little kid struggles to remember the steps but is playing along as best she can.

I was going to wear a HENCHMAN t-shirt for Halloween but now I want to find that a green suitjacket...
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 3:50 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]


Trump got his phone back and is retweeting comments from Juanita Broadderick.

This seems like a sure sign he's gonna go all in tomorrow on Bill's foibles. Which would be an excellent strategy if Bill Clinton were running for President.
posted by dis_integration at 3:51 PM on October 8, 2016


@Schwarzenegger 11 minutes ago As proud as I am to label myself a Republican, there is one label that I hold above all else - American. My full statement: Let's go get some plo-chops! [fake]
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


She could also say things like "here, pukebreath, grab a tictac"! Endless varieties possible.
posted by Namlit at 3:53 PM on October 8, 2016


Among other things, we now have proof positive that as soon as Ted Cruz does something, it is no longer cool.
posted by kyrademon at 3:54 PM on October 8, 2016 [49 favorites]


I'm glad to see that my local Repuglican Senator is going all in with the Drumpf. I've already given $25 to his opponent today.
posted by jferg at 3:55 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


NBC and Mark Burnett have a lot to atone for inflating Trump up to the point where anyone ever thought he was a serious candidate.

NBC is apparently going to go with the excuse that they legally can't release any of the unreleased Apprentice footage and it looks like Mark Burnett is just going to pretend that he's in a meeting for the next month and can I take a message.
posted by vuron at 3:55 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


The debate being a town hall is going to make his efforts to redirect everything into an attack on Bill reeeaaal cringy.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:55 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


GOP mega-donors Robert and Rebekah Mercer stand by Trump:
GOP mega-donors Robert and Rebekah Mercer, two of the most influential figures in Trump's orbit, said Saturday that their support for the GOP nominee has not faltered in the slightest after a tape revealed crude remarks he made about women a decade ago.

In a statement to The Washington Post, the billionaire hedge fund executive and his middle daughter, who finance and run a super PAC supporting Trump, dismissed the remarks caught on tape as “locker room braggadocio.”
posted by zachlipton at 3:56 PM on October 8, 2016


Trump is now retweeting Juanita Broaddrick so I am expecting peak ugly at the debate.
posted by prefpara at 3:58 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


guys

is

is trump even going to show up for the debate

I mean if he wants to win he has to, obviously, but maybe he's more comfortable just saying it's a rigged system and staying home where he is indisputably a winner
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:58 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Greg Nog, I had a dream about you two nights ago. You played harmonica and offered to introduce me to Tim Kaine, but I was too shy. I think my dream-mind conflated you with another user who actually played harmonica with Tim Kaine.
posted by angrycat at 3:58 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


I saw Kellyann and the Steves at Summerfest '89

Did they do "I'm Walkin' On Trump Slime"?
posted by Sys Rq at 3:58 PM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]


What's the supposed legal reason they can't release Apprentice tapes?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 3:58 PM on October 8, 2016


Seriously, what sort of terrifying locker rooms does Trump hang out in?


As a semi-regular gym-goer, this is the sort of locker-room conversation I'm used to:

"Excuse me- I'm over there."
"Oh, sure- just let me move my stuff."

"I haven't seen you in a while. How are [family and/or acquaintances]?"
"[offspring or dependent] is looking at schools right now- we're really proud."

"What's been happening with [work situation]?"
"[work situation] hasn't been great, but I think it's about to improve."

"OK, BITCHES- WHO KEEPS FOGGING UP THE PLACE WITH AXE BODY SPRAY? SPRAY AND WALK AWAY, BITCHES, SPRAY AND WALK AWAY."

(admittedly, that last one is a bit problematic, but may also be pretty specific to the gym I attend)
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 3:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [33 favorites]




What's the supposed legal reason they can't release Apprentice tapes?

Grabbyright issues as always.
posted by Namlit at 4:00 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Doesn't Mark Burnett own it?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Apparently NBC doesn't own or possess the footage only Mark Burnett's production company. It's pretty lame excuse by NBC who almost certainly knew what sort of person Trump was and continued the relationship in order to keep making money.
posted by vuron at 4:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


I interrupt today's news about Donald Trump being a vulgar pig to bring you even bigger news: Hillary Clinton is doomed...Yawn. More email stuff. And this time it's not even Clinton's email. It's email from John Podesta, Hillary's campaign chairman and longtime Clinton/Obama major domo. Actually, wait: it's not email from John Podesta. It's from Tony Carrk, but got hacked from Podesta's account because Carrk sent it to a bunch of Clinton campaign folks...

The important thing is that apparently this poor Carrk fellow was tasked with reading through all of Hillary Clinton's paid speeches to see if she had said anything that might be embarrassing if it got out. Carrk found about a dozen things, and attached headlines representing the worst possible spin he could think of. Here's a typical entry:

*CLINTON ADMITS SHE IS OUT OF TOUCH*
....“I do think there is a growing sense of anxiety and even anger in the country over the feeling that the game is rigged. And I never had that feeling when I was growing up. Never....We had good public schools. We had accessible health care. We had our little, you know, one-family house that, you know, he saved up his money, didn’t believe in mortgages. So I lived that. And now, obviously, I’m kind of far removed because the life I’ve lived and the economic, you know, fortunes that my husband and I now enjoy, but I haven’t forgotten it.” [Hillary Clinton Remarks at Goldman-Black Rock, 2/4/14]...

Riveting, isn't it? Behind the scenes, it turns out, Hillary Clinton is running a—what's the word I'm looking for? Oh yes: boring. She's running a pretty boring campaign that basically does all the usual boring campaign stuff.

But of course, this email dump is only the first 2,000 emails, and WikiLeaks promises there are 48,000 more to come. I'm sure the smoking gun is in there somewhere. Probably right alongside the infamous whitey tape that no one ever seems to have tracked down.
New Email Dump Reveals Hillary Clinton is Honest and Boring
posted by y2karl at 4:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [36 favorites]


For reference between now and the debate, @realrealdonaldtrump filters out the iPhone tweets, showing just Donald's. If their bot is working properly with retweets, it looks like those are not from him. (I don't know how the bot manages retweets for sure, though.)
posted by instamatic at 4:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Kinda seems like the people who spent all that money trying to find out that Bill Clinton got a blow job, would never vote for the Republican candidate.
The darkness is strong in the ones that still support him.
posted by Mike Hunt at 4:06 PM on October 8, 2016


There is a mini-debate going on in this thread about whether men actually talk like this in the locker room--or on a bus. There is a class element in this, reflected in the comment that Pence is like the judge who allows sexual predators to get away with their shit, whereas Pence would obviously not make comments about grabbing pussy.

My mother came from old money (mis-matched furniture and inherited silver), and despite her liberalism, made disparaging comments about the "nouveau riche," who decorated their homes like you-know-who. Respectable jobs included doctor, architect, maybe lawyer...but not businessman.

We didn't talk like that, although I heard pretty gross comments now and then in my twenties, as a factory/warehouse, perhaps, although not as bad as Trump's. His white privilege is a different flavor than mine.
posted by kozad at 4:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


That time he tried to expose himself to Gloria Allred to make a point about why a transgendered woman shouldn't be allowed to participate in Miss Universe.

The thread is going by really quickly, but this link is pretty awful (warning for transphobia, sophomoric mocking of someone's name, obsession with genitalia). Thanks for linking humanfont.

He's literally written down part of Jenna Talackova's name as "JENNATAL" and is mocking her. Like, there's video of this with Barbara Walters. He also goes on about the size of his equipment and questioned Gloria Allred's own gender identify.
posted by zachlipton at 4:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


I was just thinking to myself about how Republican gaffes of the past were basically along the lines of Palin saying she could see Russia from her front porch, or Romney's 47% comment, or Paul Ryan doing gymbro cosplay. Good times.

I'm kind of afraid that Trump is completely rewriting the rules on what should be disqualifying behavior, basically unless your name is Hillary Clinton it seems like sort of committing murder you are probably going to be seen in a more positive light than Trump.
posted by vuron at 4:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


There is a mini-debate going on in this thread about whether men actually talk like this in the locker room--or on a bus.

I'm not so much debating that. I'm putting forward the view that, at any class level and for any man in any setting, it's not OK. There is no OK place to say that, even if other men reward you for it.
posted by Miko at 4:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]


Trump and his elephant and leopard murdering sons have no fan base among the people I've been calling.
On FB I know of one POC voter who simply hates Hillary. In real life I know 3 N/A and one Hispanic who were Bernie delegates who were mistreated BADLY at the DNC. They are having a hard time going with Hillary. All 3 local people I know who are Trump voters are White.
I am actually pulling shifts at HQ calling people. I am working my ass off for Hillary. I have worked with 2 coordinated campaign people locally who consider me a damned useful volunteer. The one they have now calls me to train people. He really likes the fact I don't bs around. Everyone has to keep up with me. Most of the people I get to call are Latino. The local people I've reached Do. Not. Like. Trump. There is a raffle fora Trump piñata. Many Whites in my age bracket like Trump, but Whites are out-numbered by Latinos. The younger Whites are probably going to go for Hillary now. This stuff out of Trump was too much.
He's off the deep end.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 4:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [25 favorites]


Investigators release photo of Donald Trump and Marco Rubio sharing Tic Tacs

[real] in the literal sense but [fake] that investigators had anything to do with it.
posted by jeremias at 4:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]




I got in from canvassing a few hours ago, but I took a nap as soon as I got home and am just now waking up.

I went up with Somerville for Hillary, and we got to the Manchester office around 10am this morning. The setup at Manchester HQ reminded me of the funhouse at Chuck E. Cheese--there were a lot of stop points and weird little side rooms. After going through their very efficient setup, my cohort and I had a less efficient training on how to canvass, and we headed out to our stump, which was about half an hour away. The woman who drove us up grabbed two canvassing packets since there were four people in the car, but that was a lot more ambitious than necessary.

We were canvassing a semi-rural area near a lake in southern New Hampshire, and a lot of our people had left for the year. Among the people we met, one woman very politely informed us she was voting for Trump and another woman more or less chased us off her property. We got three Hillary supporters: a woman with an Eastern European accent who said she was "most likely" voting for Hillary "unless something happened" (oh woe is me, the irony); a woman with two dogs who was psyched to pull the lever for Hillz; and a woman in her 60s with a union background who wanted to volunteer on the campaign. We also got a strong lean for Hillary from a woman who strongly disliked Trump but was concerned about balancing the budget.

As a side note, I dressed in my usual new-wave-fairy-godmother style, expecting that Manchester would be more suburban. The area was a lot more rural than I expected. My apple-cheeked, outdoorsy canvassing partner gleefully pointed out that I wasn't dressed appropriately for the area, at one point saying to someone we were canvassing "she's not wearing the right shoes!" when I stopped to catch my breath. (REALLY?)

For the most part, this was successful for the election. On an interpersonal and planning (on our part, not on the part of the election) level, it was more frustrating, but nothing that would prevent me from going back.
posted by pxe2000 at 4:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [28 favorites]


"As the father of a young girl, I am deeply upset by how far I have to drive to her soccer games. As a human person, trump said fuckin' WHAT?" --@joss
posted by zachlipton at 4:13 PM on October 8, 2016 [105 favorites]


You shot 236 lbs of schadenfreude, but you can only carry 200 lbs back to the wagon.

First, you put the schadenfreude and the presidential candidate into the boat. Row across the river....
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:13 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


If only I had a penguin...: What's the supposed legal reason they can't release Apprentice tapes?

Has anyone confirmed Apprentice tapes even exist? A friend logged reality shows for a summer. It's thousands and thousands of tapes per season that they have to go through and log the dialogue and actions along with the timecode. I could see them fast forwarding to the slate, so off camera dialogue wouldn't be searchable in the database, but even more likely I could see a production company trashing the thousands of raw tapes once the show was canceled and off the air for a few years instead of paying for storage. After all, who would've foreseen their host getting this close to the Presidency? But Burnett's company is well funded, not fly-by-night, so if anyone can afford storage, they can...
posted by bluecore at 4:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


In this momentary lull, I will just note that if I ever meet David Fahrenthold, I will get down on one knee and propose to him.

Me too, in the same bellowing tone he used with Trump- MR FAHRENTHOLD, HERE IS THE PROOF WE WILL BE TOGETHER FOREVEEEEEEEEER
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 4:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Kinda seems like the people who spent all that money trying to find out that Bill Clinton got a blow job, would never vote for the Republican candidate.

Lindsey Graham has something to say about that.
posted by Slothrup at 4:15 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


to farenthave and to farenthold
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:15 PM on October 8, 2016 [36 favorites]


Lindsey Graham has something to say about that.

Thanks for the reminder, Lindsey. I had almost forgotten how much I hate the rest of the assholes in your party for a minute.
posted by bibliowench at 4:18 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Kids, this is exactly like it was during the summer of Watergate as each day brought news that topped yesterday's untoppable news and we experienced the glee of having everyone learn what the rest of us already knew about Nixon even though his hard-core supporters ...
Sorry. Flashback.
posted by DanSachs at 4:20 PM on October 8, 2016 [77 favorites]


Juanita Broaddrick was never fully litigated and is extremely credible. Trump is going to unload this on Clinton on Sunday with both barrels. It's potentially damaging to millennial voters coming into the fold especially if Clinton dismisses the allegations out of hand.

What happens Sunday if Clinton tries to wrestle with the proverbial pig?
posted by Talez at 4:21 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


I was wondering how this compared to Nixon. If people felt the same horrified unreality that this man was once in the running for the highest office in the land.
posted by chainsofreedom at 4:22 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Presumably the town hall format means that there will be a variety of questions from the audience. I'll bet Hillary will stay on point and answer them, and Trump will sputter and deflect and melt down.
posted by Sublimity at 4:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm pretty sure Nixon was considered an experienced and capable politician. Even "the actor" Reagan had governed a state. Trump makes any state governor including Sarah Pain look like Abraham Lincoln.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:24 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


Didn't Nixon get re-elected after Watergate?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:24 PM on October 8, 2016


The last President with zero elected experience was Dwight Eisenhower, best known for ensuring that the Allied Forces in WII did not have to file for bankruptcy.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


Nope. Ford took over, but pardoned Nixon. Carter won the next election.
posted by vbfg at 4:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


What happens Sunday if Clinton tries to wrestle with the proverbial pig?

p sure we can just sit back and watch it bbq itself
posted by poffin boffin at 4:27 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Didn't Nixon get re-elected after Watergate?

No. The Watergate crimes occurred during and after his second campaign.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:27 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


Schadenfreude frosting: apparently the news about the Trump tape came out on Vladimir Putin's birthday, or as near as makes no difference.

Here's a video of Putin being sent 450 roses, one from each Russian MP [real]
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:27 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Maybe she'll come out with something like "Juanita Broaddrick absolutely deserved to be believed. Being the spouse of something accused of a crime like that puts you between the rock and a hard place of wanting to believe the love of your life and wanting to believe a woman who has been the victim of one of the most heinous crimes you can commit".

I'm honest to god worried about Sunday with Trump telegraphing this move.
posted by Talez at 4:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Didn't Nixon get re-elected after Watergate?

"Don't change Dicks in the middle of a screw—vote for Nixon in '72"
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


Reince Priebus won't be on Face the Nation tomorrow and Rudy Giuliani will substitute. An RNC official said that the Trump campaign "wanted a campaign person" to appear.
posted by octothorpe at 4:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


Nope. Ford took over, but pardoned Nixon. Carter won the next election.

Nixon resigned in his second term. I believe that's what they were asking. I'm not sure when it became apparent Watergate was a big deal, though.
posted by hoyland at 4:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Juanita Broaddrick was never fully litigated and is extremely credible. Trump is going to unload this on Clinton on Sunday with both barrels.

After Trump's child-rape lawsuit got the go-ahead, Juanita Broaddrick will not be mentioned. It'll be a NAFTA and Emails doubledown.

Here's the deal about tomorrow night - the pig thinks it's there to wrestle in the mud. The butcher has other plans.

Hillary is sharpening her knives, while The Donald is wallowing as hard as he can.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:30 PM on October 8, 2016 [48 favorites]


"Reince Priebus no longer appearing on Face the Nation tomorrow because Trump team “wanted a campaign person," per CBS. So it's Rudy Giuliani" --@mlcalderone

I've never thought of the title of the show in such an ominous way before, but someone literally does have to face the nation tomorrow morning.
posted by zachlipton at 4:30 PM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]


Watergate and all that didn't come out till the second term; the activities took place during the reelection campaign. Before that it was just the dirty hippies against the war who were anti-Nixon.
posted by DanSachs at 4:30 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Of course, if someone does have to face the nation to speak for this, who better than the man who called a press conference to break up with his wife?
posted by zachlipton at 4:31 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


When they come out tomorrow, does Hillary shake his hand?

And on a side note, I got my 'Rural PA for Hillary' sticker today at a fall festival deep inside Trump country. I thanked the county Dem representative and told my daughter that this was the person who was helping Hillary get elected for a better future for girls like her. My 7 year old was impressed and got her own H sticker and she proudly wore it. On the way back to the car we passed the Trump table, heads held high.
posted by splen at 4:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


Eisenhower DID pick Nixon as his running mate, so that's one managerial strike against him.

The Washington Post (Woodward and Bernstein) exposed some of the Watergate scandal before the 1972, but they had not gotten 'legs' in the media until after Nixon was safely re-elected.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Besides, Reince is busy with other things, meetings, that have everything and nothing to do, with electing Donald Trump.
posted by Oyéah at 4:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Before that it was just the dirty hippies against the war who were anti-Nixon.

My dad likens him to Ted Cruz. "I never liked him, the man always seemed like a creep."
posted by sallybrown at 4:33 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


All Republicans will be known as 1st day republican, 2nd day republican, 3rd day republican, ... .
posted by rainy at 4:33 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


After Trump's child-rape lawsuit got the go-ahead, Juanita Broaddrick will not be mentioned. It'll be a NAFTA and Emails doubledown.

Didn't already get the go-ahead? He tweeted about Broaddrick tonight.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:33 PM on October 8, 2016


When they come out tomorrow, does Hillary shake his hand?

Yes, because she's not a child. She'll have to shake Putin's hand, she'll have to shake the hands of men who disparage and disrespect her leadership because it comes from a woman. She'll shake it and she won't flinch, but she won't smile.
posted by sallybrown at 4:34 PM on October 8, 2016 [55 favorites]


She could also say things like "here, pukebreath, grab a tictac"

OMG. Can you imagine the crowd reaction if Clinton calmly shook out a TicTac and ate it while Trump was speaking?
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:37 PM on October 8, 2016 [17 favorites]


Trump is going to unload this on Clinton on Sunday with both barrels.

What's going to be a sight to see on Sunday is how Trump is going to maintain the respectable sheen he failed to sustain during the last debate. This tape and the fallout is only ONE thing he'll have to account for. And in some (not all) ways this whole mess is a distraction, Trump was awful from the start and it's only Republicans inability to spin these words into anything more palatable that's making this stick.

Clinton can handle attacks while pushing forward her message on the fly. Trump's position was much more stable going into the first debate and he had no ability to deflect and pivot without spiraling into nonsense and bluster then. I can't see how he'll do much more than swell and burst during the second.
posted by AtoBtoA at 4:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


Hillary isn't a classless, unstable narcascist. I'm confident she can handle a Juanita Broaddrick reference / attack.
posted by humanfont at 4:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


New Email Dump Reveals Hillary Clinton is Honest and Boring

Brought to you by Russia interfering with the election, but Republicans don't care because their guy is Putin's guy.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


I can't imagine Trump trying to get anywhere with the Juanita Broadrick allegations. If you try to push a narrative that not only was Clinton a rapist but that Hillary threatened Juanita you need to bring something new to the table. Journalists and investigators were cautious about it back during the Lewinsky saga and it seems highly unlikely that there is new evidence that could point to it being anything other than a he said, she said allegation. Even if you are likely to accept the allegation at face value which some people are it's going to be something that will be hard to impact Hillary with.

In contrast the current Trump scandal has actual evidence that people can watch and listen to themselves and it's basically impossible to negate that which is why the current strategy seems to be to excuse it as being "locker room talk"

In short the Trump stuff has legs but the Juanita Broadrick stuff is exceedingly unlikely to be carried outside of the right wing blogosphere.
posted by vuron at 4:41 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm really hoping that Clinton basically ignores him and uses the venue as a way to push her agenda forward. She's presidential, and I like to think the presidential thing to do here has nothing with sick burns or gotchas, but with advocating for a better America.
posted by gofargogo at 4:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [62 favorites]


Keep in mind the "debate" tomorrow is actually a town hall event which means for the most part the candidates don't interact with each other much but instead get asked questions by the audience.

About the only way that Broadrick will come up is if Trump gets asked about this tape and he tries to pivot it back to "Bill is a rapist" which is going to be a challenging response at best to deliver.
posted by vuron at 4:45 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Looks like NC Gov McCrory is having an October surprise moment of his own.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:46 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


She's got to be prepared for virtually anything to come out of his mouth at this point. I mean, we all are, and we aren't running for president with a team of highly qualified people helping us prepare. I think Hillary will be fine. Great, even. Her best strategy might be to just stand there and let him talk.
posted by something something at 4:47 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]




I do not put it past Trump to say this in front of God and everybody. That word got the country's attention, and the man is a creature of instinct; the one thing he loves is attention.

Hmm. I totally think he'll want to, but his read on the room won't let him do it--it won't be a blood thirsty rally, he'll actually have to see people's faces, and he's sensitive to the mood of the room like some kind of mood diviner who subsists on approval.

I bet he brings it up obliquely, in a cowardly way.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:48 PM on October 8, 2016


About the only way that Broadrick will come up is if Trump gets asked about this tape and he tries to pivot it back to "Bill is a rapist" which is going to be a challenging response at best to deliver.

And how many people outside of Brietbart even know what that is? He's going to look like (more of) a raving loon bringing that up when 90% of voters watching it have no clue what he's saying.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:48 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Mr. Trump, you said this week that you believe the Central Park Five are still guilty because they confessed to the crime after a lengthy and exhausting police interrogation, despite ample evidence and the judgement of the judicial system determining they were innocent. If you believe their incriminating statements decades ago make them guilty over all other available evidence, why should Americans believe your repudiation of the words that came out of your mouth 11 years ago?
posted by zachlipton at 4:48 PM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]


Donald Trump getting on a moral high horse and accusing someone else of sexually assaulting women at this moment in time in a town hall setting (not filled with rabid Trump supporters) on live TV would be an incredibly unwise thing to do. Which doesn't mean it won't happen, but man.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:50 PM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]


I do not put it past Trump to say this in front of God and everybody. That word got the country's attention, and the man is a creature of instinct; the one thing he loves is attention

Fantastic if he does. He has to convince college educated women and moderates. Going unhinged and negative in a townhall setting may make him and Trumpsters feel good, but it's not going to work with the people he needs to get above 40%.
posted by chris24 at 4:51 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm sure Ms. Clinton's people have Focus Group Tested various responses and counter-moves and found the most concise but effective message which she has committed to memory. This is a professional campaign we're talking about here.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:51 PM on October 8, 2016 [19 favorites]


vbfg: "Nope. Ford took over, but pardoned Nixon. Carter won the next election."

It's worth remembering that the Republican party managed to bounce back quickly after Watergate with a landslide election in 1980. Don't get your hopes up that Trump will mean the end of the GOP.
posted by octothorpe at 4:51 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


Bill said that "Hillary had eaten more pussy than [he] had."

That was Gennifer Flowers.

Hey, if we're going all-in on the gutter fight, I wonder what would happen if she owned it.

"Donald, you're right, I've probably eaten more pussy than you have, and..."

I mean, unlike the 80's, where that started, it'd probably gain her more votes than it loses today. I'd have some respect for it, anyway. And Trump might literally implode from confused impotence.

Don't mind me, I'm past the 1000-comment level of drunkenness.
posted by rokusan at 4:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]


The news coverage that I've seen seems to cut right when they get off the bus, so, not showing the egregious touching and forcing of attention on the actress. I find that part of the video to be as disturbing, and a perfect example of how women are constantly having to negotiate our own safety around men.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 4:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]


I'm curious, since Donald felt that sexual assault deserves capital punishment, wouldn't it be consistent if he calls for capital punishment in the instance of his confession to sexual assault on the bus tape? Or is that too much to ask?
posted by rainy at 4:52 PM on October 8, 2016


Donald Trump getting on a moral high horse and accusing someone else of sexually assaulting women at this moment in time in a town hall setting (not filled with rabid Trump supporters) on live TV would be an incredibly unwise thing to do. Which doesn't mean it won't happen, but man.

In fact, the sheer idiocy of it means it probably will happen.

Because, y'know, Trump.
posted by dersins at 4:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


In fact, the sheer idiocy of it means it probably will happen.
Because, y'know, Trump.


I know. I'm just sort of gobsmacked at the prospect of witnessing that and the unimaginable fallout.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:56 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump better hope that Putin and the FSB can deliver some better dirt than someone associated with John Podesta sending an email giving some thoughts on Clinton's speeches. Seriously if there was anything remotely worth a gotcha in those speeches they would've already been made public. The reality is that they are more valuable in an unknown state.

Same with the 33,000 emails.

Actually providing detail about the banality of Clinton is going to do nothing to right a sinking ship.
posted by vuron at 4:58 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


I know. I'm just sort of gobsmacked at the prospect of witnessing that and the unimaginable fallout.

I dread watching his poll numbers hold above 40% and losing complete faith in humanity.
posted by Talez at 4:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


popcorn.gif

Senior CNN political reporter @mkraju:
- Giuliani, leaving Trump Tower, signals Trump is ready to wage war against his party. "This is basically the insiders versus the outsiders." -
posted by chris24 at 4:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [13 favorites]


Commence popcorn!
posted by Kitty Stardust at 5:01 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


@costareports: The people at Trump Tower today, per mulitiple sources...

Christie
Giuliani
Priebus
Bannon
Conway
Don Trump Jr.
Bossie
Hicks


Ah, excellent -- a tar-and-featherin' list
posted by Celsius1414 at 5:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


Is there a good grassroots way to put pressure on Mark Burnett to release the tapes?

- He's president of MGM Television and Digital Group, whose shows include The Voice (NBC); Survivor (CBS); Shark Tank (ABC); Beyond the Tank (ABC); Celebrity Apprentice (NBC); Fargo (FX);Vikings (HISTORY); Teen Wolf (MTV); 500 Questions (ABC); The People's Choice Awards (CBS); Lucha Underground (El Rey Network) and America's Greatest Makers (INTEL/Turner).

- He is married to Roma Downey (aw man I loved her in Touched By An Angel (omg Della Reese officiated their wedding!!!!))

- He and Downey are heavily involved in philanthropic organizations Operation Smile and Compassion. In 2014, they announced a fundraising plan called Cradle of Christianity that aims to raise $25 million to help Iraqi and Syrian Christians and other minorities displaced by ISIL survive that upcoming winter.
posted by sallybrown at 5:03 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


Donald Trump getting on a moral high horse and accusing someone else of sexually assaulting women at this moment in time in a town hall setting (not filled with rabid Trump supporters) on live TV would be an incredibly unwise thing to do. Which doesn't mean it won't happen, but man.

The thing is that he's going to be in a town hall with undecided voters (to the extent there can be such a thing anymore) all around him. And if he starts blaming other people, those people will almost certainly have an involuntary physical reaction. That's inevitable--most of us recoiled when we were watching his whatever-that-was last night and he pivoted to "Hillary Clinton and her kind." He's going to say the name "Juanita Broaddrick" and the audience's jaws are going to drop.

Reaction gifs for days.
posted by zachlipton at 5:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


Giuliani, leaving Trump Tower, signals Trump is ready to wage war against his party.

This, right here, is how it was always going to go. The war was always inevitable; it's been going on since the primary; Trump made huge territory gains through blitz and asymmetry but the established power was always going to strike back. They tried at the convention. If this hasn't happened they would've tried after he was sworn in. But there was always going to be war, and now it's upon us.

It's the death of the Republican party and it can't happen fast enough.
posted by penduluum at 5:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]


Giuliani, leaving Trump Tower, signals...

I'm glad this is such a meltdown that instead of getting angry, this kind of thing just makes me have dumb thoughts. Like, how did he signal it? Semaphore? Egoland expects every man would grab that booty? Tomorrow is going to be something, that's for sure.
posted by feloniousmonk at 5:05 PM on October 8, 2016 [10 favorites]


You're assuming that whatever replaces it will be an improvement. I don't have a lot of faith in that.
posted by Archelaus at 5:05 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


@costareports: The people at Trump Tower today, per mulitiple sources...

Christie
Giuliani
Priebus
Bannon
Conway
Don Trump Jr.
Bossie
Hicks


No Ivanka and Jared? Ryan Lizza's profile of Conway says "The Trump adviser added, “The real campaign manager, in fact, the entire time, has been Jared Kushner, who is still the real campaign manager, even today.”" So where was he?

Somewhere in the maelstrom of the last day, someone quoted a tweet that said one of the family was urging Trump to drop out. Was it one of the Trump-Kushners?
posted by sallybrown at 5:06 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Sweet Jeebus he's now picking a fight with Robert De Niro.
posted by Dr. Zira at 5:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Good article from Robert Costa and others at WaPo.
Carl Paladino, Trump’s New York state co-chairman, a former gubernatorial candidate who had his own scandals over sexism and racism, said Trump’s “gutter talk” was something “all men do, at least all normal men.”

“The only people concerned with this are Hillary people right now and the treacherous ones in the Republican Party,” Paladino said. “The people in America look at this and say it’s another day in the life of Donald Trump. It doesn’t matter to them.”
*sigh*
posted by jferg at 5:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh wow it looks like Metafilter's own Scott Adams is rescinding his endorsement of Trump and transferring it to Johnson.

I would link but I don't want to drive any traffic to his site.

But man when you've lost Dilbert you know your campaign is sinking fast.
posted by vuron at 5:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [61 favorites]


Parody account, Dr. Zira.
posted by glhaynes at 5:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Republicans knew that Trump was racist and misogynist when they nominated him. That was part of his appeal. Do you think it's an accident that the first woman nominated by a major party is running against a troglodyte? A troglodyte that, by the way, that the Republicans knew at the beginning had less chance of winning against Clinton than other candidates but they couldn't resist his "straight talk". Openly articulated racism and sexism was too exciting for them to pass by in favor of picking a winning candidate. Just because there's tape proving exactly how repulsive Trump is isn't really a reason for Republicans to dump him. It's probably a very good reason to rethink what the Republican party represents and who it appeals to but for the moment Trump is who represents the Republicans and his supporters are who the Republican party appeals to.

I also wonder why there isn't fire directed at NBC. Access Hollywood is distributed by NBC. The various Apprentice programs were NBC shows. So whoever ran Access Hollywood must have been familiar with Trump's behavior. Why isn't there any push-back against whatever executive told Ariana Zucker to look pretty and be nice while greeting Donald Trump or told Billy Bush to go sit with him in a bus full of guys and laugh at his shit? Or whoever decided that the rating from the Apprentice were worth more than the risk of NDA bound contestants suing the shit out of them for Trump's behavior. Let me clear. Those executives are not responsible for Trump's actions but they enabled it and some of the heat directed at Trump should be aimed at them.

And I cannot let this go... Swamped by the reaction to the Access Hollywood tape is Trump declaring that he didn't believe that the Central Park Five were innocent. I'm repeating what many of you know but I have to write it. The Central Park Five were young black and Hispanic boys convicted of raping a white woman. When they were arrested Trump took out newspaper ads urging their execution. They were juveniles and this was in New York. They were convicted and imprisoned but it turns that their confessions were coerced and they were innocent. Years later someone else confessed and the five were cleared by DNA evidence. When New York settled with them for $41 million in 2014 Trump wrote an opinion piece opposing the settlement. Last week Trump said he still believed they were guilty. So the point of this story is that Trump is telling his supporters that innocence is irrelevant when it comes to punishing black men. That sends a specific message. It's a message designed to inspire fear in African Americans and appeal to white supremacists. It's a message that should be very familiar to anyone who knows history.
posted by rdr at 5:08 PM on October 8, 2016 [116 favorites]


Dr. Zira, that's a fake account.
posted by condour75 at 5:09 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


> "No Ivanka and Jared?"

That may just be because it's the Sabbath.
posted by kyrademon at 5:10 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Haha Trump's response to DeNiro is classic internet toughguy with "come say that to my face".

Jesus this election couldn't get anymore surreal can it?

Blah stupid parody accounts that are basically indistinquishable from the real thing.
posted by vuron at 5:10 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


No Ivanka and Jared? Ryan Lizza's profile of Conway says "The Trump adviser added, “The real campaign manager, in fact, the entire time, has been Jared Kushner, who is still the real campaign manager, even today.”" So where was he?

It was, until an hour ago or so in New York, the Sabbath. They weren't working.
posted by zachlipton at 5:10 PM on October 8, 2016


How does one tell what titter feed is the real real donald trump? Oh, also, I hate twitter.
posted by skewed at 5:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


Carl Paladino, Trump’s New York state co-chairman... said Trump’s “gutter talk” was something “all men do, at least all normal men.”
Even if that were true, it wouldn't excuse Trump in any way. It just means all those other men shouldn't become president either.
posted by mbrubeck at 5:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [14 favorites]


skewed, there is always the verified checkmark.
posted by infinitewindow at 5:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


How does one tell what titter feed is the real real donald trump?

Stand back and let Poe's Lawyers figure it out.
posted by rokusan at 5:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


(In this particular case, one could also tell it was a parody/fake because the Twitter account used a capital "i" instead of a lowercase "L" in "Donald.")
posted by Spathe Cadet at 5:13 PM on October 8, 2016


How does one tell what titter feed is the real real donald trump? Oh, also, I hate twitter.
The actual Donald Trump account is 'realDonaldTrump', that's real with an L. This particular parody account is using a capital i instead of the (lower-case) L.
posted by Juffo-Wup at 5:13 PM on October 8, 2016


So clearly the answer is to always use serifed fonts.
posted by jferg at 5:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


Giuliani, leaving Trump Tower, signals Trump is ready to wage war against his party

TRÜMPERDÄMMERUNG 2016
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 5:14 PM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]


the established power was always going to strike back. They tried at the convention.

Nope. As corb can attest, they squashed the opposition to Trump.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:17 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


penduluum: "It's the death of the Republican party and it can't happen fast enough."

Well, the fallout from the DNC/Sanders debacle may well end up actually splitting the left (more than it has already), which could pave the way for a true multi-party government. That would be interesting to see, except I have no idea how the hell that would actually play out with our system...
posted by Red Loop at 5:17 PM on October 8, 2016


Dwight Eisenhower, best known for ensuring that the Allied Forces in WII did not have to file for bankruptcy.

Well to be fair he was also a terrible president of Columbia University.
posted by spitbull at 5:18 PM on October 8, 2016




Well, the fallout from the DNC/Sanders debacle may well end up actually splitting the left

There's no evidence of this at all. The party is almost fully united behind Clinton. And if this turns into a wave election nobody is going to rock the boat.
posted by Justinian at 5:19 PM on October 8, 2016 [22 favorites]


NEW: Rudy Giuliani-Trump Advisor replaces Kellyanne Conway on Fox News Sunday.

Holy shit... Especially in the context of "An RNC official said that the Trump campaign "wanted a campaign person" to appear."
posted by Talez at 5:22 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


I don't think he's going to bring up Broaddrick tomorrow. He hopes to rattle Clinton with these tweets (yeah, sure) and lay out some bait for the media (much more likely to succeed).
posted by maudlin at 5:22 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Can't Obama just nominate Garland again, with a big "FINAL NOTICE" stamped across it? Added text: the President has requested your advice, and you have failed to provide it. If you do not respond with a properly-voted No answer by [date], the President will consider that 'consent' to the appointment as specified in the Constitution.
posted by ctmf at 5:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Trump donors angry, want their money back after lewd tape leak

"A prominent Trump bundler told CBS News that he “could not tell you how many” calls he’s gotten from donors in the course of the last day. After the Washington Post first published the tape, people want their money back, he said."

Hahahaha. Good luck with that.
posted by chris24 at 5:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [21 favorites]


Broaddrick is losing my willingness to believe in her good faith by her willingness to throw other victims of sexual assault under the bus.

I don't get it. I really don't. I'm not saying I necessarily think she made it up, but if she didn't make it up, then she seems to be willing to let other women get sexually assaulted or have their attacks be ignored to get back at the Clintons, and I have to draw a line there and say that's beyond the realm of acceptable outlets for one's anger. And she was literally tweeting that Trump only talked about it and therefore it doesn't matter. It just made me feel sick to my stomach. I really hope that Hillary's team is working out a classy way to respond to this, because I don't know what words you use to make people understand the weight of what Broaddrick is saying and the bargain she's making in choosing sides on this of all issues.

I don't even really have words for it myself at this point. I thought the Trump campaign was just bringing this up and it was seriously tasteless. The fact that she's actually willing to say that Trump isn't a real threat but the Clintons are makes me feel ill.
posted by Sequence at 5:23 PM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]


Can't Obama just nominate Garland again, with a big "FINAL NOTICE" stamped across it? Added text: the President has requested your advice, and you have failed to provide it. If you do not respond with a properly-voted No answer by [date], the President will consider that 'consent' to the appointment as specified in the Constitution.

Failure to say "no" is not consent. Let's not create any confusion on this point.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:26 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]


Justinian: "Well, the fallout from the DNC/Sanders debacle may well end up actually splitting the left

There's no evidence of this at all. The party is almost fully united behind Clinton. And if this turns into a wave election nobody is going to rock the boat.
"

oh, god, not now. I mean, before the next election. Sorry that wasn't clear.
posted by Red Loop at 5:27 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


That would be interesting to see, except I have no idea how the hell that would actually play out with our system...

It can't, unless all parties concerned have a commitment towards a vision of America. In the past, as parties more or less shared the same vision, it creaked along, but as this vision eroded along with white supremacy and gender prejudice, the Constitutional system has shown some inherent flaws.

The revanchism in the GOP has gotten to the point that it no longer recognizes a Democrat-led America as a legitimate possibility. I mean, if Clinton loses, it wouldn't even occur to me that I deserved my 40-odd dollars back, because I would understand that I wasn't always able or entitled to buy what I wanted. Not so the big GOP donors or the GOP. They would rather choke the country than help to govern it under Obama, and under Clinton as well, I expect. Some GOP officials are openly saying that this will be the "last election," if Hillary wins. I'm spending too much time worrying about the implications of this.
posted by Countess Elena at 5:28 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


1) Neither party is dying
2) Long term establishment of a multiple party system is more or less impossible
3) Divisions between the progressives and centrist parts of the Democratic party are wildly overstated
4) Divisions within the Republican party are also overstated
5) In the big scheme of things Trump is a momentary blip on the timeline
posted by vuron at 5:29 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


well i guess that's cleared up
posted by R.F.Simpson at 5:30 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


I think you're understating the fracture in the Republican party. That doesn't mean its doomed by any means. But the divide between the establishment types and the lunatic base is real and appears to be growing.
posted by Justinian at 5:30 PM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]


No Ivanka and Jared? Ryan Lizza's profile of Conway says "The Trump adviser added, “The real campaign manager, in fact, the entire time, has been Jared Kushner, who is still the real campaign manager, even today.”" So where was he?

I'm guessing this has something to do with it - @pbump: "So the delay was hours spent debating whether or not to include the Bill thing, right? And Bannon beat Jared."

I would also seriously love to know what Ivanka is thinking right now.
posted by lalex at 5:31 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Whoa! I'm not gonna tell anyone how to feel, but Broaddrick choosing not to stand by her abuser isn't something I'm gonna criticize. Bill Clinton is an abuser like Trump. Period. If people demand others stand up for him it'll be just like it was during his presidency when women's rights get set back for Bill's gain. Fuck that and fuck him.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:31 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]




I can't wait for the debate
posted by Lyme Drop at 5:31 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm not saying I necessarily think she made it up, but if she didn't make it up, then she seems to be willing to let other women get sexually assaulted or have their attacks be ignored to get back at the Clintons

Being petty, grudge-holding, anti-feminist, and a plethora of other things - none of it protects you from sexual assault. Jerks get sexually assaulted just like nice women do. And perhaps a woman who was sexually assaulted by a prominent government official, and then vaulted herself into the poisonously woman-hating national media stage of the 1990s, has some warped and difficult shit going on. I can believe Broadderick that Bill assaulted her back then and hate the choices she makes now.

(I think her belief that Hillary shaking her hand was some secret code handshake for "I will destroy you" is not reality, more like evidence of her trauma.)
posted by sallybrown at 5:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [37 favorites]


I, too, refuse to vote for Bill Clinton for President this November.
posted by Justinian at 5:32 PM on October 8, 2016 [143 favorites]


Holy shit, CNN just played tapes from the Howard Stern show where he brags about taking advantage of his position as owner of the beauty pageant to harass the pageant contestants.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:35 PM on October 8, 2016 [9 favorites]


93-year-old Bob Dole, standing by the Republican nominee.

“I look at it a little differently,” the 93-year-old Mr. Dole said. “I’ve been a Republican forever. The party has been very good to me. I’ve had many opportunities as a Republican, and I find it very difficult to desert the party after Trump won 40% of the vote in the primary.”

Bob Dole. Bob Dole. . . Bob Dole. . . Bob . . dole
posted by petebest at 5:36 PM on October 8, 2016 [8 favorites]


I, too, refuse to vote for Bill Clinton for President this November.

I'm fully supporting Hillary Clinton as president. She'll be great. Bill is just extra baggage of a really crappy sort. I'd just prefer we not act like he is somehow an okay dude while Trump's boys aren't.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:37 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]


I thought Bob Dole was dead. Apparently I was wrong.
posted by Existential Dread at 5:37 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


93-year-old Bob Dole, standing by the Republican nominee.

Has anyone confirmed that this is actually Bob Dole and not Norm Macdonald in old-man makeup?
posted by dis_integration at 5:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [15 favorites]


Who the hell was talking about Trump's sons?
posted by schadenfrau at 5:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'd just prefer we not act like he is somehow an okay dude while Trump's boys aren't.
I would prefer we focus on the people who are actually running for office.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [24 favorites]


I fear there has been perilously little talk about this considering the unofficial theme of our election threads: how fabulous is Lin-Manuel Miranda going to make sure SNL is tonight? It's going to be one for the books.
posted by sallybrown at 5:39 PM on October 8, 2016 [18 favorites]


Failure to say "no" is not consent. Let's not create any confusion on this point.

Let's not conflate politics and parliamentary procedure with personal consent. There are an awful lot of things in lawmaking and in government that proceed as assent if they are not explicitly objected to. In the world where the Senate refrains from participating in its duty, you can make a constitutional case to take the silence of the Senate as assent for a nomination. That would be for the courts to decide.
posted by tclark at 5:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [12 favorites]




I know comments of this type have been made before, and I'm sure they'll be made again before this election is all over, but for me the past 24 hours have been special. I have been glued to this thread (and the previous one) more than ever before. I mean anything on the internet ever before - previous elections, natural disasters, twitter storms. It is an obsession that's ... maybe not damaging but certainly not healthy. I mean for God's sake, I actually turned on CNN last night. I believe that marks the first time I have ever deliberately tuned in to a cable news network.

I spent most of this afternoon shopping with my fiancée for clothing for our wedding. This was hours of my life that probably should have been a bit more tightly focused on my actual surroundings, but instead every time my part of the process was finished - out came the phone to refresh this thread. To be clear, we're having the opposite of a huge bash and most of today was just choosing between twenty different neckties or whatever, and okay honestly most of the shopping was just regular clothes shopping, but still.

I gotta take a break. Gotta. I have to leave the computer now and go over to her place and be with her and maybe not be checking my phone every five minutes, but I can't stand the thought that I'm gonna miss the Next Big Revelation That Helps Bury Trump Permanently.

So what I'm asking is that maybe a few kind souls take pity on me and MeMail me directly if some big scandal hits tonight - any time between now and the end of SNL. I'll catch up the regular news tomorrow at breakfast, but I

okay this is just sounding absurd as I type it out

...

and yet I'm still going to click on 'Post Comment' because I really do want to know if a new scandal erupts. My schadenfreude gland grew three sizes today and I have to keep it regulated.
posted by komara at 5:41 PM on October 8, 2016 [30 favorites]


I haven't been participating much in these debate threads, but I just booked my plane ticket to Ohio where I'll spend the last two weeks of the election sleeping on an old friend's sofa bed and volunteering every second I can to GOTV.
posted by sleepy psychonaut at 5:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [80 favorites]


I'm picturing the Trump/RNC's Friday more like this than the Downfall clip.
posted by ctmf at 5:42 PM on October 8, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump's boys meaning the idiot children who are supporting him, not just the idiot children he fathered.

And I too would prefer to focus on the people actually running for office, but I couldn't ignore posts questioning Broadderick and standing up for Bill that I've seen today.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:44 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


This is late, but I don't think the sexual assault aspect of the remarks matters to a lot of people or even jumps out at them, and certainly not the whole 'let's make nice to hot women and joke about dating them' thing second half of the video. Based on my personal conversations with others - joking about grabbing and kissing women is pretty much normal shit. Just normal asshole stuff. Joking about grabbing women's pussies and trying to fuck married women 'like a bitch' are one vulgarity across the line and if he hadn't used that specific language then I don't think this would be as big a deal.
posted by bq at 5:46 PM on October 8, 2016


> I'm not sure when it became apparent Watergate was a big deal, though.

It was apparent to me in June 1972, when the press first reported that one of the burglars was a Republican Party flunkey. I thought it was going to derail Nixon's campaign and was astonished when the story vanished without a trace; my sense of vindication a couple of years later was tarnished by the fact that Nixon remained president because those fuckers in the press refused to take it seriously.

> I gotta take a break. Gotta. I have to leave the computer now

My wife just said this to me almost word for word. I want to thank everyone who participates in these threads for helping me stay sane during this crazy-making political season.
posted by languagehat at 5:46 PM on October 8, 2016 [25 favorites]


Komara, if it makes you feel better I've been alternating between this tab and 20 different wedding caterer websites.

I'm just glad my partner and I are both political dorks.
posted by Sara C. at 5:47 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Why This One Is Different:

Because logic doesn't play into it. People are viscerally affected. It emotionally grabs our national pussy like it has a right to, and we're fucking angry about it.

All the spinmeisters and the career talking heads are digging into the words because that's all they have to work with, but that depletes the outrage by its very nature. This is how the story is being fought down.

Mexicans are rapists, the blacks live in hell, Putin's a great guy, why can't we nuke 'em, let's grab their oil, let's kill their families - these are all presented and discussed as positions (they're not but go with me here), which Trump's supporters are immune to because logic.

"Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything." isn't logic-based. It's not an arguable point and therefore the Trumpsters have no defense. That's why it's different. That's why it's so devastating to Trump's campaign.
posted by petebest at 5:47 PM on October 8, 2016 [16 favorites]


In the world where the Senate refrains from participating in its duty, you can make a constitutional case to take the silence of the Senate as assent for a nomination. That would be for the courts to decide.

Well, The Court. Which just got its ninth Justice.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:47 PM on October 8, 2016


That may just be because it's the Sabbath.

the sun set 3h ago
posted by poffin boffin at 5:47 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Holy shit, CNN just played tapes from the Howard Stern show where he brags about taking advantage of his position as owner of the beauty pageant to harass the pageant contestants.

Yeah here's the link to CNN's story on the Stern comments and here's the audio of that specific one, though there are many.

Stern presses Trump on whether he's had sex with any of the contestants. Trump then says (typos are mine): "I'll tell you the funniest. I'll go backstage before a show, and everyone's getting dressed and ready and everything else, and you know, no men are anywhere, and I'm allowed to go in because I'm the owner of the pageant and therefore I'm inspecting it. You know. I'm inspecting. I want to make sure that everything is good [Stern: you're like a doctor]. Yeah. Is everyone ok? They're standing there with no clothes. And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that."

You can just about hear the airquotes around "inspecting" in his tone of voice. What a creep.
posted by zachlipton at 5:48 PM on October 8, 2016 [30 favorites]


I'm not saying I necessarily think she made it up, but if she didn't make it up, then she seems to be willing to let other women get sexually assaulted or have their attacks be ignored to get back at the Clintons

so what if she is? Rape only improves women in soap opera storylines. I think even soaps have stopped doing that because somebody explained misogyny to them in the 90s at some point. Maybe she's a victim and maybe she's a petty person, and they have nothing at all to do with each other and neither influences the likelihood of the other. If you must find a reason not to believe her, make it because you think it's out of character for BC to have done it or because of some factual thing, not because you think it's possible for it to be out of character for any woman to have been assaulted. that is kind of grotesque.

Her character now and her actions now have no bearing on the truth of her accusations. They shouldn't have any bearing on the election, either, since Hillary Clinton is not accused of assaulting anybody.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:50 PM on October 8, 2016 [20 favorites]


I think the two older Trump sons are reprehensible by their own words and deeds without having to do any guilt by association in regards to them.

I still feel mixed opinions about Ivanka because it seems like she's enabling a horrible person but on the other hand growing up in the Trump household cannot of been particularly good for the long term health of her psyche.

Part of me is still hoping that the traitor in the Trump camp is actually Ivanka and Jared because that would just be too Shakespearean but it's becoming clear that she's only marginally better than the rest of them.

I kind of hope Melania divorces Donald and gets Barron way the hell away from Trump before he resembles his older siblings.
posted by vuron at 5:50 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Welcome to American Political History 201! Today's subject is kinda like Benghazi but with tictacs and pussy.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:51 PM on October 8, 2016 [11 favorites]


How to Move Beyond the Two-Party System

Howard Dean, in the Times yesterday.

It's a start.
posted by rokusan at 5:52 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


Well, The Court. Which just got its ninth Justice.

In that scenario, I'd expect it first to go to the DC Circuit, and in the highly likely scenario that it would end up at the SCOTUS, the newly-minted Justice in question would most likely recuse her/himself.
posted by tclark at 5:52 PM on October 8, 2016


the sun set 3h ago

She's got a few thousand comments to catch up on.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:54 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]


via

Republicans who say Trump should step down
Former Gov. Christina Todd Whitman of New Jersey
Rep. Barbara Comstock of Virginia
Rep Bradley Byrne of Alabama
Rep. Martha Roby of Alabama
Rep Scott Garrett of New Jersey
Sen. Mike Crapo of Idaho
Rep. Mike Coffman of Colorado
Gov. Dennis Daugaard of South Dakota
Carly Fiorna
Rep. Joe Heck of Nevada
Sen. Cory Gardner of Colorado
Rep. Mia Love of Utah
Rep. Mike Coffman of Colorado
Former Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. of Utah
Sen. John Thune of South Dakota
Sen. Dan Sullivan of Alaska
Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska
Rep. Barbara Comstock of Virginia
Sen Shelley Moore Capito of W.Virginia
Sen. Deb Fischer of Nebraska
Rep. Ann Wagner of Missouri
Rep. Rodney Davis of Missouri
Rep. Chris Stewart of Utah
Rep. Cresent Hardy of Nevada
Former Sec. State Condoleezza Rice
Rob Engstrom of US Chamber of Congress
Ex-Gov. George Pataki of New York
Rep. Justin Amash of Michigan
Conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt


Republicans who say they won’t vote for Trump
Gov Gary Herbert of Utah
Sen. Jason Chaffetz of Utah
Sen Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire
Gov Bentley of Alabama
Gov. Sandoval of Nevada
Sen. John McCain of Arizona
Gov. John Kasich of Ohio
Rep. Jeff Fortenberry of Nebraska
Rep. Tom Rooney of Florida
Rep. Erik Paulsen of Minnesota
Rep. Frank LoBiondo of New Jersey
Former Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota
Former Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger of California


Republicans who never endorsed Trump, want him to step down
Sen. Jeff Flake of Arizona
Sen. Mark Kirk of Illinois
Sen. Mike Lee of Utah
Sen. Ben Sasse of Nebraska
Rep. Charlie Dent of Pennsylvania
Rep. Fred Upton of Michigan
posted by petebest at 5:56 PM on October 8, 2016 [31 favorites]


I am curious, do the billionaire supporters of Trump e.g., Thiel, Mercer or Hubbard really suffer any repercussions? Do their fellow billionaires kind of edge away from them subtly or no longer invited to certain parties or meetings? I was having a conversation with co-worker and how her social circle has actually changed due to Trump supporters. It has shocked and saddened her some of the things she was receiving in her media streams from people she respected, trusted and even loved.
posted by jadepearl at 5:56 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]


In my most optimistic imaginings, this insider/outsider dichotomy develops into the moment when the quietly respectable elements of the Republican party finally come to their senses, muster themselves into a coherent bloc, and definitively shove the lunatics and degenerates out into the political wilderness. The root of its disease finally excised, the party is drastically weakened, but the healing can finally begin.

Over the next years, the socialist wing of the Democratic party gains influence, prompting many Blue Dogs to migrate out of the Democratic tent and shore up the weakened Republican body politic. Revitalized, it slowly finds its way back to meaningful and affirmative exercise of power. We then have two parties operating on coherent and defensible principles, each of which are compatible with a truly civilized society.
posted by perspicio at 5:57 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


In the world where the Senate refrains from participating in its duty, you can make a constitutional case to take the silence of the Senate as assent for a nomination. That would be for the courts to decide.

Yeah, there's a non-frivolous argument that at some point Congress's failure to act on a nomination constitutes consent to that nomination. But there's no precedent for it, and there is lots, and lots, and lots of precedent for the opposite, that consent means a majority vote in favor of nomination, and failure to vote is itself an implicit rejection, and the remedy for Congress's failure to act is the political process. The Obama administration could decide to press this case, but it's not at all a slam dunk, and it's a fight that could shift focus away from the thing that the democrats want the country focused on most right now (Trump's horribleness).

I think it's deplorable that the Senate has not been made to pay a larger price for this, and I think it sets a terrible presence, but at this point I think it's best left until after the election. I think at that point democratic leadership will get together and figure out whether they want to go with Garland with a lame duck Congress that will likely be willing to nominate the devil they know, or let Hillary swing for the fences with her own nominee, and use up some of her post-inaugural political capital on a SCJ nomination.
posted by skewed at 5:57 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]


Welcome to American Political History 201! Today's subject is kinda like Benghazi but with tictacs and pussy.

A lot of people in America and of course outside of the States have been astounded for months that the Republicans nominated the type of guy who would find the deplorable fuck her right in the pussy videobombing nonsense absolutely hilarious. His ignorance and character have been obvious for years. I rather hope history focuses on those who empowered him as well as Trump himself.
posted by juiceCake at 5:58 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]


I'd expect it first to go to the DC Circuit, and in the highly likely scenario that it would end up at the SCOTUS, the newly-minted Justice in question would most likely recuse her/himself.

Well, himself. And there's no rule on recusing oneself. He might wait to see if it was a tie vote or not.
posted by