The disrespect of our ambitions and intellect
October 14, 2016 11:31 AM   Subscribe

Fifteen months ago, Donald declared and we commented; two months earlier, Hillary did likewise. And now, here we are near the end of an divisive and damaging election. As Donald's campaign struggles under many allegations [BBC] [NBC News] [Guardian] [New York Times] and increased conversation on abuse, Hillary pulls out a 7 point lead in a Fox poll, a gap in the Real Clear Politics poll average and a large victory chance in 538 (though, cautionary words about poll bounces). Michelle Obama spoke about the language of this election (FPP title from her speech) [BBC] [New Yorker] [Washington Post] and in The Guardian: "She lent her extraordinary ability to say what people are feeling to every English-speaking woman in the world". Elsewhere, Trump-stooge Chris Christie is facing a criminal summons and Utah could be a three-way race which leads to a small possibility of President Evan.

The ability to vote remains problematic for many. Hurricane Matthew has disrupted some eastern communities, while in many states, new rules impede previous and new voters. Suppression could stop 1.3 million people from voting in swing states, while 6.1 million Americans are forbidden to vote because of felony disenfranchisement. In Wisconsin for example, voter ID problems remain unresolved [PR Watch] [US News][Wisconsin Public Radio], while in Virginia the photo ID law is problematic [Daily Signal] [wset.com].

More positively, Facebook's four-day voter registration campaign has nudged more people to register [engadget] [fortune], while a federal judge extended Florida's voter registration by a week to October 18th [Guardian] [tampabay.com][International Business Times] and heavy voter registration is reported in Texas and Georgia.

Resources:
* Ballotpedia has a mass of election resources.
* Plan your election day; again from Ballotpedia, state-by-state poll opening and closing times.
* Voter information by lampshade...
* ...and more at vote.gov
* Election 2016: Restrictive Voting Laws by the Numbers by the Brennan Center for Justice.
* How to vote in every state by NoxAeternum.
* Voter Registration Deadlines, by Rock The Vote.
* U.S. Voting & Election Resources (list of links) by The Office of the Federal Register.

The odds currently remain in Hillary's favor; Predictwise and the spread of UK bookmakers. Predictwise also currently have the Senate as Democrat-controlled but the House remaining Republican. Astrologers remain divided on who will take the White House.

Please add context to comments so they make sense to current, future, and distant future, readers; also, use [real] and [fake] markers to reduce MeFite alarm. MetaFilter chat is an alternative channel. The wiki page has the inside track on MeFite quirks, while there's a MetaTalk for election logistics discussion.

The next debate FPP is in the works. Most recent election and debate FPPs:
* My saying is: We win and lose together
* (Debate) ♪♫ Don’t modulate the key then not debate with me!
* [ELECTION 2016] ♪♫ He’s never gon' be President now... ♪♫
* (VP debate) Send in your seconds, see if they can set the record straight
* [Election 2016] If you stand for nothing, what’ll you fall for?
* (Debate) Ask him a question: it glances off, he obfuscates, he dances.
* All FPPs tagged with Election2016.

And finally, here is what the electoral map looks like in Wisconsin.
posted by Wordshore (4468 comments total) 158 users marked this as a favorite
 
Oh my lord, that Donald declared post from June of 2015. Oh my. How innocent and optimistic we all were, and all within 215 comments.
posted by komara at 11:35 AM on October 14, 2016 [39 favorites]




Reuters: Trump's missing donors: the people who work for him:
Only a dozen of an estimated 22,450 people employed at Trump's companies have donated more than $200 to the celebrity businessman's bid for the U.S. presidency, a Reuters review of federal campaign finance records through August shows. Those who gave less to either Trump's campaign or his joint fundraising committees would not have shown up in the review.

The contributors, including an office cleaner, a golf course groundskeeper, a bartender and an attorney, have given $5,298 to Trump's campaign, a fraction of the $112 million Trump's political operation has received from donors and joint fundraisers.
posted by palindromic at 11:36 AM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


PSA: Could someone please hire me for a new job soon so I can stop refreshing these threads + twitter constantly all day? Thanks.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:37 AM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


> Thank you Wordshore! You are doing the Lord's work ;)

And get down off that combine harvester!
posted by languagehat at 11:37 AM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


(Breaks bottle of champagne against monitor to christen thread)
posted by Senor Cardgage at 11:37 AM on October 14, 2016 [36 favorites]


Nothing is so full of hope and potential as freshly cut election thread, acres and acres of low cropped blue from here to the horizon.
posted by notyou at 11:38 AM on October 14, 2016 [78 favorites]


(I can't believe I'm here at the actual beginning of the thread!)

I put my ballot in the mail yesterday. On my block and a half walk from my work to where the post office is, I passed a cab with an add for a strip club on the top of it, walked past a store that sells bathtubs that has a huge floor to ceiling picture of a sexy mostly naked robo woman on a slab in front of a crowd of men...to sell bathtubs...on the wall, just down the escalator from the transit stop plastered every 3 feet with some woman's torso selling belly fat removal surgery.

I couldn't help noticing these things that surround me every day, and it was really weird trying to reconcile all of that when I was holding the ballot casting my vote for our first female President in my hand. What a world.
posted by phunniemee at 11:38 AM on October 14, 2016 [139 favorites]


Oh my lord, that Donald declared post from June of 2015. Oh my How innocent and optimistic we all were, and all within 215 comments.

I'm really, really looking forward to not having Donald to kick around anymore.
posted by nubs at 11:39 AM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Also the #repealthe22nd hashtag is starting to get a lot of traction.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 11:39 AM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


PSA: Could someone please hire me for a new job soon so I can stop refreshing these threads + twitter constantly all day? Thanks.

What profession are you? If you want Memail me.
posted by Talez at 11:39 AM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


PSA: Could someone please hire me for a new job soon so I can stop refreshing these threads + twitter constantly all day? Thanks.

Volunteer for Hillary.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:39 AM on October 14, 2016 [23 favorites]


Potomac Avenue, it definitely has occurred to me that I would not be nearly so unhealthily obsessed with the minute-to-minute minutiae of this election if I didn't have a desk job. I need to get back outside.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:39 AM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


I, for one, am looking forward to an inevitable "You won't have Donald Trump to kick around anymore" moment.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:13 AM on June 17, 2015 [5 favorites +] [!]


You and me both, dude.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 11:39 AM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]




Thank you for posting this! I'm working my way through some previous threads and I've been thinking a lot, mostly not-great stuff, and it's very draining.

One of the things I've been thinking about, in terms of the sexual assault allegations against Donald Trump, is how something like this would prevent many smart, talented, hard-working women from doing various high-level jobs. If Donald Trump were President, we’d have someone in the Oval Office with whom many women (very validly!) would not be comfortable being alone. I wouldn’t be alone with him! How terrifying! And it’s even worse than just “he might sexually assault you”, there’s the fact that, if a woman chose to be alone with this man and he assaulted her, there are lots of people who would claim she was “asking for it” because everyone knows what he’s like and you can’t be surprised when he does stuff like that. This is absolutely horrifying! Imagine having a president who can’t have high-level women on his staff because he might (probably will, he is a terrible man with no self-control) assault them and, instead of saying “how terrible, those women should be allowed to do their jobs, what an awful man”, people say “well we elected a president who can’t be trusted around women so they just have to deal with being assaulted if they want to have prestigious jobs that are readily available to men.” Imagine believing that someone is “asking for it” by being alone in the room with the literal President of the United States because he is a known sexual predator and has even bragged about it in public.

His sexism is terrible on every level, but this has really been preoccupying me lately, the backwards way many people treat this, not thinking “we shouldn’t elect a President who sexually assaults women” but “unless women are willing to be assaulted they shouldn’t have these jobs.” When powerful people are not safe for women, it cuts down on the opportunities available to us in subtler ways too, because we don’t want to take jobs that come with built-in victim blaming because someone in a position of power is known to be unsafe.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 11:40 AM on October 14, 2016 [157 favorites]


It's been so wonderful being a part of this community during this election cycle. It's kept me informed and sane for weeks. Plus it's a handy place for the best ammo for political discussion in the real world.
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:41 AM on October 14, 2016 [54 favorites]


> Use [real] and [fake] markers to reduce MeFite alarm.

It seems so long ago now...
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:41 AM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Gloria Allread's press conference with accuser n+1 is at 330 est. (I was checking the post and then realized we don't have any new information yet.)
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:42 AM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


PSA: Could someone please hire me for a new job soon so I can stop refreshing these threads + twitter constantly all day? Thanks.

Same here. At least I'm doing some classes to upgrade some skills but still, it's way too easy to just keep checking.
posted by Jalliah at 11:43 AM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


And get down off that combine harvester!

They're basically giant Roombas now anyway.
posted by maxsparber at 11:43 AM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


...

there's another debate?
posted by penduluum at 11:44 AM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


PSA: Could someone please hire me for a new job soon so I can stop refreshing these threads + twitter constantly all day? Thanks.

Volunteer for Hillary.


This is good advice, if you're able. I hired someone last year on the strength of her volunteer experience with a political campaign, and she was recommended for the position by someone she met there.
posted by anastasiav at 11:45 AM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


All I want from this Halloween is a gif of a herd of Trumps being chased by a group of Furiosas.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:45 AM on October 14, 2016 [35 favorites]


This thread loads!
posted by infini at 11:46 AM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


...

there's another debate?


Just one more.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:46 AM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh also, as other people in previous threads, I am ABSOLUTELY THRILLED that I will get to take my daughter to vote for a woman President! She'll be four months old the day before the election so I don't particularly expect her to remember it, but I'm glad she'll be able to say she was there and that we can take this step together to help create a better world for her.

IMPORTANT QUESTION: If I vote with my kid, do I get two stickers? Not to sound like a dick but I'm not sharing my sticker with a baby. I'm stronger than she is and will win in a fight.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 11:46 AM on October 14, 2016 [122 favorites]


Even if McMuffin were to win Utah, and in the very extremely unlikely event that there is a tie in electoral votes, for the House to effectively lead a coup d'état and elect him over the wishes of tens of millions of voters in the United States who don't even know who he is would be unprecedented. There would be protests and riots over such an act. The outcome would be as bad as a Trump presidency — possibly worse, in some respects.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:46 AM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Marlee Matlin responds. Doesn't confirm or deny, says: "As a person who is Deaf, as a woman, as a mom, as a wife, as an actor, I have a voice. And I'm using that oice to make myself heard...and vote."
posted by zachlipton at 11:47 AM on October 14, 2016 [23 favorites]



I've often disagreed with Dr. Ben Carson (R - Nebulon Prime System) but he always seemed a pleasant enough chap before this interview.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 11:47 AM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


For history-minded MeFites—
This FPP marked the first ever mention of Donald Trump on MetaFilter, and some of the comments are real doozies:
New York has some extraordinary buildings, some ugly buildings, some tall buildings, some dull buildlings.

Trump World Tower is the most extraordinarily dull, ugly tall building in New York.

Given the competition - e.g., most everything built from 1964-1980 - that's quite an accomplishment. A ninety-story graceless black glass rectangle without a setback - he's going to Hell for this one, I'm certain.
posted by lileks at 10:51 PM on September 2, 2000 [+] [!]
. . . . . . .

I think Trump should stop wasting his money building crap and invest it all in a decent looking hair piece. Good lord! All his money and he's still walking aorund with that dead rat on his head. Who does he think he's fooling?
posted by Nyarlathotep at 9:48 PM on September 3, 2000 [+] [!]
. . . . . . .

As long as he can date models who are barely older than his daughter, I don't think he is complaining about the rat on his head.
posted by tamim at 10:45 PM on September 3, 2000 [+] [!]
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:47 AM on October 14, 2016 [48 favorites]


You guys want to go outside; I want Waitmate. Home stretch.
posted by something something at 11:47 AM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


@MMASOCCERFAN
- "Sometimes you put your Christian values on pause to get the work done" #BenCarson #morningjoe -

Is this in Two Corinthians?
posted by chris24 at 11:47 AM on October 14, 2016 [46 favorites]


Holy shit, Gloria Allred's client was a contestant on the Apprentice.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:47 AM on October 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


komara: Oh my lord, that Donald declared post from June of 2015. Oh my. How innocent and optimistic we all were, and all within 215 comments.

My wife and I sat down to watch a few past episodes of Full Frontal with Samantha Bee, and we went from Too Close for Comfort to Pussy Riot in about 2 hours -- "Everyone knows Hillary has a 'p-word,' that's her problem" to "warning, you're going to hear the 'p-word,' and it's not 'presidential.'" It was kind of cathartic.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:49 AM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I would pay good money for alternative future historical fiction where McMuffin becomes pres and Pelosi is in charge of the house. Just in case anyone is trawling for ideas for National Writing Month.
posted by Trifling at 11:49 AM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Holy shit, Gloria Allred's client was a contestant on the Apprentice.

*donk* O.O

Okay, that's unexpected. Woah.
posted by Jalliah at 11:49 AM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


For those who need a lightly entertaining break unrelated to national politics: watch
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 11:50 AM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


IMPORTANT QUESTION: If I vote with my kid, do I get two stickers? Not to sound like a dick but I'm not sharing my sticker with a baby. I'm stronger than she is and will win in a fight.

My district has 'Future Voter' stickers to head off such disputes.
posted by palindromic at 11:50 AM on October 14, 2016 [49 favorites]


Fahrenthold: New clips show Trump talking about sex, rating women’s bodies, reminiscing about infidelity on Howard Stern Show, talking about the time his wife and mistress fought over him in public, "[Lindsay Lohan is] probably deeply troubled, and therefore great in bed,” and on Pope Benedict II, "He should just give up and die. He looks so bad."

Yes, that's right, Trump has actually attacked two Popes.
posted by zachlipton at 11:51 AM on October 14, 2016 [29 favorites]


This new allegation is on now. MSNBC. This poor woman :(
posted by Senor Cardgage at 11:52 AM on October 14, 2016


Re-posting here, since every time I post in an election thread literally the next comment is "we made a new thread!"

I've been seeing the following exchanges on my FB and it's getting my blood boiling:

Friend posts: "Michelle Obama is amazing! A vote for Trump is truly a vote against all women. [link to speech]
Comment 1: Preach! [1 Like]
Comment 2: She's amazing. Going to miss her so much. [2 Likes]
Comment 3: ACTUALLY THIS IS HYPOCRITICAL SINCE HILLARY PROMISED TO DESTROY BILL CLINTON'S
ACCUSERS. DON'T GET ME WRONG I THINK TRUMP IS AWFUL TOO, BUT PRETENDING BOTH CANDIDATES AREN'T EQUALLY AWFUL IS JUST PLAIN IGNORANCE. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A WOMAN WHO SAID SHE WOULD CRUCIFY BILL'S ACCUSERS. ALSO I'M REALLY THOUGHTFUL AND FAIR AND BALANCED BECAUSE I SEE BOTH SIDES, UNLIKE HILLARY SUPPORTERS WHO SEE WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE [7 Likes]


(Commence radio silence as Idiot goes unchallenged for all to witness)

What do you even say to these people? I feel like I can't just stay silent on it, but "Bill Clinton is not running for president" seems to go over their head - they genuinely believe she is a power hungry power monster who threatens rape victims with her ultimate power.

It's not about changing their mind - it's about not letting their shit-opinions go completely unencumbered in front of their wider social media circle. I don't even know what to say at this point, though.
posted by windbox at 11:52 AM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


I still have never seen a sticker at a polling place. I'm gonna bring my own stickers. Probably a Frozen sticker. I'll write "I VOTED" on Olaf's butt.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:52 AM on October 14, 2016 [36 favorites]


I'm waiting to hear back from a bunch of recruiters but I assume they've been nonstop refreshing this page too and doing no work this week either. Anyway! That Slate article about poll bumps is good. Here's the takeaway:

"Recent research, however, suggests that swings in the polls can often be attributed not to changes in voter intention but in changing patterns of survey nonresponse: What seems like a big change in public opinion turns out to be little more than changes in the inclinations of Democrats and Republicans to respond to polls. "
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:53 AM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Summer Zervos, a former Apprentice contestant, is coming forward right now on MSNBC. She has a very long and detailed statement.
posted by gatorae at 11:54 AM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]




I bought my own roll of stickers to share with anyone I know who wants one, since my county is lame and doesn't participate (Allegheny, in PA). 500 on Amazon for ~$13.
posted by miratime at 11:55 AM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


Summer Zervos, Apprentice contestant (some of the non-sexual part of the story, much of which I missed): Trump asked about my mortgage, which I said was in good standing. He talked about how he got out of his debts, told me not to make another payment, call the bank and tell them I'm leaving the keys and walking away, he said this was a mini-version of what he does.
posted by zachlipton at 11:55 AM on October 14, 2016 [19 favorites]


The Apprentice contestant is Summer Zervos; she claims she met Trump at the Beverly Hills Hotel to "discuss employment opportunities." Zervos claims Trump kissed her and touched her instead of giving her a job. Zervos describes Trump kissing her at their first meeting in New York, then giving her his phone number, then agreeing to dinner in LA. Zervos says Trump's security brought her to an LA bungalow, where Trump was apparently not clothed when he called for her from another room. Zervos claims she waited for him to come out and when he did he was in a suit, and then he began kissing her. She says she pulled away.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:55 AM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


I'll write "I VOTED" on Olaf's butt.

Some people are worth voting for.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:56 AM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


I feel like I can't just stay silent on it,

Just stay silent on it. What possible argument could you offer that would convince someone who wrote something like that to change their mind? Are there any rational discussions that can be had during this campaign that will make someone go "oh, yeah, I've been wrong all this time, you are right and now I side with you"? I just don't see that as possible.
posted by hippybear at 11:56 AM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]




Utah could be a three-way race which leads to a small possibility of President Evan.


Who?
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:56 AM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


and on Pope Benedict II, "He should just give up and die. He looks so bad."

Correction: Dammit. I said Trump was talking about Pope Benedict II, who died in 685 AD. It was Benedict XVI. Fixing. Thanks to @markberman for noticing
posted by zachlipton at 11:57 AM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


What do you even say to these people? I feel like I can't just stay silent on it

"Cool story, bro. Maybe you missed that this thread is celebrating a woman supporting women. If you don't have something supportive to say or substantive to add about the actual, real culture of violence and aggression against women in this country, please find another place to post your hot takes."
posted by phunniemee at 11:57 AM on October 14, 2016 [84 favorites]


windbox, my sister has a similar problem, and I think the only answer is vigorous policing of the comments allowed on one's own FB page. She's neither a classroom nor a newspaper, so she has no obligation to host all of society's opinions. If she has no real social contact with the person, delete, defriend, get on with life. If it's someone she has to actually deal with, well, delete the comment, and post a message that folks have their own pages to shit up with nonsense, if they so desire, get on with life.
posted by palindromic at 11:58 AM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Wow, Summer Zervos also talking about his business tactics along with the sexual assault.

"He said to tell the bank to let the house go into default. He said that's how he did business."

He groped her, kissed her, pressured her while she was looking for a job with the Trump organization.

She's crying as she describes her further attempts to contact him.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:58 AM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


For you who are more devout pastafarians than I've been, what do I need to promise the Flying Spaghetti Monster to make Texas go for Hillary? Because that's where some of the Trumpublican relatives live, and I wouldn't even need to rejoin Facebook, I 'd *hear* their wailing from the other end of the country.
posted by NorthernLite at 11:59 AM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Having posted about my positive feelings regarding my (amazing!) daughter and this election, I've also been thinking about all the people who distance themselves from Trump/assault by saying "as the father of daughters..." and, yeah, it's super bullshit! Women are people and you shouldn't need to be the parent of daughters to get that stuff is really bad! That said, as a woman, I'm seeing anew lots of really horrible things that I'd sort of discounted previously as just what happens. It's not that I don't know that all this bad stuff is out there (I do! I've experienced it!), it's that I've hardened myself to it as much as possible and seeing my sweet beautiful baby and stepping back and thinking about what I hope she doesn't have to go through and probably will absolutely breaks my heart.

I try to ignore this stuff because I'm used to it and I've learned how to do that and seeing a little girl and knowing what's likely coming and that you'll protect them as much as you can but it won't be enough is really hard and, even if it doesn't exactly give me a new perspective, it does make me face a lot of the awfulness I try to ignore for my own sanity.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 11:59 AM on October 14, 2016 [28 favorites]


He's in the middle of a rally right now. The story broke literally in the middle of him denouncing all the other woman who have come forward.
posted by gatorae at 11:59 AM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


I'll write "I VOTED" on Olaf's butt.

Some people are worth voting for.


LET IT GO!
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


It is cruel. It's frightening. And the truth is, it hurts. It hurts. It's like that sick, sinking feeling you get when you're walking down the street minding your own business and some guy yells out vulgar words about your body. Or when you see that guy at work that stands just a little too close, stares a little too long, and makes you feel uncomfortable in your own skin.

It's that feeling of terror and violation that too many women have felt when someone has grabbed them, or forced himself on them and they've said no but he didn't listen - something that we know happens on college campuses and countless other places every single day. It reminds us of stories we heard from our mothers and grandmothers about how, back in their day, the boss could say and do whatever he pleased to the women in the office, and even though they worked so hard, jumped over every hurdle to prove themselves, it was never enough.
THIS SPEECH.

Watching Michelle Obama, who has long been the first human my mind conjures when I think of the phrase "total badass," say these words... hearing her speak with a just-barely-trembling voice, seeing the look in her eye and noticing her tone deaden when she said, "We thought all of that was ancient history, didn't we?"... I am just so fucking overwhelmed by it all.

Because I have sat by for so many years while men have gotten real busy telling women that we are making it all up, exaggerating, rudely failing to take a compliment -- but there she was, the goddamn First Lady of the United States, talking about feeling poisoned to the pit of her stomach when she gets catcalled. She was talking directly to us as women, as workers, as the largest class of people on earth still so regularly forced to strive for being treated with basic standards of decency and respect. "And all of us are doing what women have always done: We're trying to keep our heads above water, just trying to get through it..." It makes me feel so seen, and many of the women I've spoken to about it feel the same way. As crushingly depressing as things have had to get to come to this, I'm intensely grateful to witness our stories as they are recognized and accounted for so boldly on the national stage. Thank you, Ms. Obama.
posted by amnesia and magnets at 12:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [235 favorites]


windbox: "What do you even say to these people? I feel like I can't just stay silent on it, but "Bill Clinton is not running for president" seems to go over their head - they genuinely believe she is a power hungry power monster who threatens rape victims with her ultimate power."

Well, one response would be to push back on the idea that she threatened any of these women. (That source is a Guardian column, so it might not be the most persuasive to a right-leaning crowd, but it's the first thing I found while googling.)

The idea that Hillary “threatened” these women is a flimsy dodge of the “Bill's not running for president” defense. Rather than taint her with Bill's alleged crimes and admitted adultery, they invent a related charge that dovetails with their conception of Hillary as an all-powerful harpy.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [25 favorites]


Summer Zervos is incredibly brave, knowing that Trump will be spending at least the next 48 hours tweeting horrible things about her.
posted by turaho at 12:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [45 favorites]


Voted early on Tuesday. Can I just go to sleep until the 9th?
posted by nestor_makhno at 12:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


The Smiths popped up on my Spotify this morning, and this line is sticking with me today (particularly in light of the convo from last thread about how much of a hand we should extend to Trumpsters):
In my life
Why do I give valuable time
To people who don't care if I
live or die?


That's where I'm at. I'm done giving my valuable time to people who, quite literally, don't care if I live or die.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


for fuck's sake im still 800 comments back on the old post

can't we all just lie down for like half an hour
posted by poffin boffin at 12:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [95 favorites]


I just voted in early voting in Minnesota. I not only got two stickers ("you can use one for today and one for election day!") but also was offered to have my picture taken in front of a giant novelty I Voted sticker. I would never stoop so low...
posted by mcstayinskool at 12:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [45 favorites]


Trump apparently went off on a 20 minute rant about how he doesn't know these women and they're just looking for fame, blaming Carlos Slim, even asking why nobody makes these allegations against Obama.
posted by zachlipton at 12:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


I don't even know what to say at this point, though.

Encourage them not to vote.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 12:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Seriously, it cut directly from Trump saying "I don't know any of these women, I've never met them, they're making it all up" to a woman saying "I was a contestant on the Apprentice."

Summer Zervos said she'd emailed the campaign about this in April. They had to know this was coming, and yet Trump's razor seems to be diamond-tipped.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [21 favorites]




How has Trump not broken Twitter's rules, btw. He's got every single one of the "Abusive Behaviors" except perhaps impersonation.
posted by fraula at 12:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


How has Trump not broken Twitter's rules, btw. He's got every single one of the "Abusive Behaviors" except perhaps impersonation.

Twitter doesn't give a shit.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 12:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [70 favorites]


Summer Zervos has finished speaking in the press conference live stream I posted, but you can rewind it to the 33 min mark to hear the whole thing.
posted by insoluble uncertainty at 12:06 PM on October 14, 2016


Allred: "Many more women have contacted me. will they be coming forward? I can't answer that question at this time."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


The crowd would really like him to talk more about building the wall and locking her up.

I was saying last night that there's almost a liturgical character to the rallies that attendees now demand from Trump. It's like a black mass, just in orange.
posted by holgate at 12:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [50 favorites]


I actually do believe that Trump thinks Obama does this too. He cannot conceive of a person in power not abusing those under them.
posted by gatorae at 12:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [162 favorites]


He's got every single one of the "Abusive Behaviors" except perhaps impersonation.

He's impersonating a presidential candidate.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:07 PM on October 14, 2016 [57 favorites]


This Summer Zervos accusation is even more damaging than the ones in the paper imo because she arguably his direct employee. Hence the presence of Gloria Allred ready to sue the tie off Trumps pants presumably. TGIF?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:07 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


@fraula

Twitter doesn't care. They care about driving ad revenue more than the concerns of their users.
posted by 81818181818181818181 at 12:07 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


I apologize if this cover of The Economist been mentioned already, but holy shit. That's perfect.
posted by Roommate at 12:07 PM on October 14, 2016 [75 favorites]




[from last election thread] > Michelle saw that she could be easily put into the box of Angry Black Woman and therefore took concrete steps to stay above the fray and just kill them with kindness, so to speak. It's not an accident that her pet project is Let's Move, which is about as inoffensive as it can be.

This was a great point that I've been thinking about for a few days. FLOTUS's speech yesterday impressively walked lines between sounding extemporaneous while being too well written for that and angry without being hateful by adding a heavy dose of sadness for what hate does to people and being heartfelt as I've ever heard from anyone.

The Obamas are planning to stay in D.C. for a while and while Ms. Obama doesn't want to run for office and I expect/hope she'll continue to work on the causes she champions now, I also hope she continues to throw shade like it was her job. Her "pleasantness" makes her disapproval that much more cutting.
posted by morganw at 12:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [24 favorites]


President Evan a very conservative coalition dreamed this up at Stein Erickson's lodge in Park City, last summer. This is a well thought out plan to subvert this election. This is not a feather lost in a birdbath, this is a real threat to our democracy. They have held this in abeyance until the eleventh hour, making it look like an improbable gambit. I am not sure, but what if everyone is on board? What if all the Republicans who dumped Trump did so last minute, to cover for this?
posted by Oyéah at 12:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh! Again? I thought this was over!

I mean, surely sniveling Trump - is sniveling what you call it when you're allergic to facts? - surely he has dropped out. And even if he has absolutely no sense of shame, everybody else has a conscience and they won't vote for that man.

Ok, we're still doing it then.

I had to check before I hit post. I'd hate to get my facts wrong.

Sniveling.
posted by adept256 at 12:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Not to #NotAllMen this, but I think Trump literally thinks "yes all men," because he cannot fathom somebody with fame or power not committing sexual assault. So in his mind, of course he thinks President Obama is just as much of a predator as he is.
posted by zachlipton at 12:10 PM on October 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


"Reporter asks Summer Zervos why she came forward with Trump accusation: 'Because I want to be able to sleep at night when I’m 70.'” (from a Tweet by Kia Makarechi.)
posted by infinitywaltz at 12:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [74 favorites]


So I realize why he won't do this if challenged, but couldn't some reporter challenge trump to sign something (it wouldn't be a contract exactly, since there would be no consideration on the part of the other party?), but something that basically says "I waive my right to sue under non-disclosure agreements that prevent the release of the Apprentice tapes."

Ideally it would be broader and he would waive all NDAs including those signed by Ivanka, but I could certainly imagine reasons why even a non-rapist would not waive every NDA ever.

Of course he would never agree to sign something like that, but I'd love to have a reporter say "Why not just debunk all this by having all the apprentice tapes released? If it's not true, give them the material to prove it and let them embarrass themselves when they can't."
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]




A Hillary victory without a Senate Democrat majority will present many problems as GOP unites behind their hatred of a woman president who is a Democrat.
posted by Postroad at 12:12 PM on October 14, 2016 [19 favorites]




Can I just say how amazing Lawrence O'Donnell has been on this story:
@lawrence: Yes I deliberately chose to have no men guests on my show tonight because authority on sexual assault against women belongs only to women.

I never really watched him before, since I don't have cable. It's just so shocking to me to see a top news guy (emphasis on guy) actually reporting on sexual assault in a way that doesn't fill me with despair.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [139 favorites]


Reporter asks Summer Zervos why she came forward with Trump accusation: “Because I want to be able to sleep at night when I’m 70.” --@Kia_Mak

Another important part of the Zervos story is that she said she wrote an email to Trump (when seeking a job from him, which she did after the assault) that referenced his conduct. Presumably that email is going to be produced soon enough.
posted by zachlipton at 12:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


Hell, if they could have the contract-like-waiver-of-NDA ready and in front of him before a lawyer could stop him, he might well sign it. It seems like he legitimately believes he hasn't done anything bad or unusual.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:13 PM on October 14, 2016


This has only been happening for a week!
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Lawrence O'Donnell is an outstanding reporter and human being.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


@reidepstein: Trump crowd in NC now yelling "lock her up" in reference to the women accusing him of touching them without consent.

And there you have it, folks. The conservative movement is now being run by people who want to criminalize consent.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:15 PM on October 14, 2016 [37 favorites]






Anne Helen Peterson was at the Cincinnati rally earlier today and spoke with a number of women about why they support Donald Trump for president.
Laurie is one of thousands of female Trump supporters at the Cincinnati rally — which police estimate drew over 17,000 people — and one of nearly two dozen I spoke with who have rejected the idea that a slew of claims of abuse now surfacing should have any bearing on Trump. These women, however, do not fit the easy stereotype of Trump supporters — some are angry, some are from rural areas, but the vast majority are from suburban areas and have steady, middle-class livelihoods. Some wore matching pink and white shirts emblazoned with “ADORABLE DEPLORABLES”; others donned the contemporary classic uniform of skinny jeans, knee-high boots, and perfectly coiffed hair...

While every woman I spoke to had a different way to excuse the allegations against Trump, one thing remained constant: It does not matter what he does, or what other women say Trump’s done to them. These women, they’re with him.
posted by ChuraChura at 12:16 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Not to #NotAllMen this, but I think Trump literally thinks "yes all men," because he cannot fathom somebody with fame or power not committing sexual assault. So in his mind, of course he thinks President Obama is just as much of a creep as he is.

It's just the way men are! How dare women (or anyone) expect any different! Something something innate male nature blah blah evo psych.

Of course, that's all bullshit, but a lot of people really seem to believe it and I think that this is a huge obstacle towards dismantling rape culture. It's one reason why men need to be the ones challenging other men on this. It's not normal and it's not innate.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]




Are women people?
The presidential election has turned into a referendum on whether women are full human beings or objects men own
posted by infini at 12:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [105 favorites]


Thanks I always wondered what it would have been like if Andrew Dice Clay was at Nuremberg
posted by theodolite at 12:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [96 favorites]


Trump literally thinks "yes all men," because he cannot fathom somebody with fame or power not committing sexual assault.

I don't mean to defend Trump here, but I do want to speak about this. When I was growing up, all I wanted was to have really close male friends who would value me, and I them, above others. Girls were good for friends, but they weren't who I wanted to be truly, emotionally close with.

Cut to college in the late 80s, when beer companies were handing out free posters for college dorm rooms (picture three busty women in single-piece bathing suits lying next to each other so the individual suits with text printed across the breasts would spell out BUD-WEIS-ER as your eyes traveled across the six kitties). I couldn't possibly understand why anyone would put something like that in their room! I mean, I know, as a hardcore Christian, we're meant to find a woman to marry and to have children with, but... I mean... women make great friends but I've not met one that makes me want to ask them to marry me. I trust that I'll meet "the one" at some point. I find the focus of most of my college friends toward women to be confusing and disappointing, believing that true happiness is only to be found in a close, bonded relationship with a male.

I hadn't even considered sex with a guy at this point. My conservative religious upbringing had made me believe that homosexuals were sort of a boogyman like Jason Vorhees or Freddy Kruger. They were big scary monsters, but they didn't really exist. It would be a few more years before other puzzle pieces fell into place and I finally realized that I am gay.

So... the point of this is... and I'm not defending Trump by saying this, is that I can understand the "yes all men" thing because I've had the same oblivious "this is who I am all must be like this" perception about the world when I was younger.
posted by hippybear at 12:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


Utah could be a three-way race which leads to a small possibility of President Evan.

Him?
posted by Mayor West at 12:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


146 posts tagged with election2016.

Oh god. I knew that there'd been a lot but that's insane. They date back to January 6, 2015 which means that we'll only get a two year break before we start tagging things election2020.
posted by octothorpe at 12:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


Are women people?
The presidential election has turned into a referendum on whether women are full human beings or objects men own


Yeah, and it looks like the side of decency is gonna win big! Like maybe even 50% of the popular vote.
posted by skewed at 12:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [30 favorites]


There are no adjectives to describe how the combination of media, connectivity, the HQs of most of the apps on the internet, and this horrible, terrible bile emerging from this corner of the planet is spilling out and raising blisters and pustules on every single woman on this planet. Especially of colour.
posted by infini at 12:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


roomthreeseventeen: "Trump on the woman who claimed he assaulted her on a plane: “She would not be my first choice ... That would not be my first choice.”"

Jesus. I thought when he danced around this idea yesterday that that was a profoundly stupid move. I didn't think he'd be stupid enough to say it outright. Trump's Razor cuts again.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:22 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Mentioned last thread, but worth it for the framing: Limbaugh: The Left Is Obsessed With Consent | All In | MSNBC
They're called the real police.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:22 PM on October 14, 2016 [37 favorites]


Yes, in case it wasn't clear, my Twitter question was rhetorical and largely meant to point out their blatant hypocrisy.

It also might be nice for Twitter users to report his BS. If you want one concrete way (among others) to help people hurt by his shit, there you go. Report his abuse for exactly what it is.
posted by fraula at 12:22 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


The thread that holds all this together is a disavowal of women’s right to autonomy and an assertion that our bodies and the decision-making power over them should belong to men. There’s an elaborate distribution scheme to handle which men get to control which female bodies: Virgins belong to their fathers, wives to their husbands, some women get categorized as “sluts” and can be manhandled at will. Apparently any man who has the same insurance plan as you gets to view porn about you at will. But ultimately, the decision-making power over a woman’s body belongs to anyone but the woman.

Anyone remember New Delhi?
posted by infini at 12:22 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I can understand the "yes all men" thing because I've had the same oblivious "this is who I am all must be like this" perception about the world when I was younger.

Dude's 70, he's no longer young, he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt on anything. Especially when we prosecute 12 year old children of color as adults in this country.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:22 PM on October 14, 2016 [95 favorites]


It's just so shocking to me to see a top news guy (emphasis on guy) actually reporting on sexual assault in a way that doesn't fill me with despair.
He got choked up while reading from the People story, and it felt real to me. I've liked him for a long time, first learning about his work writing for The West Wing and later discovering that he worked for Sen. Moynihan from NY for ages. He gets into trouble a lot, particularly with Mormons, which he calls a made up religion founded to excuse adultery.
posted by xyzzy at 12:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


How can this post not have any references to Wikileaks or the Podesta emails, in either the main post or any of the comments?

Trumps sex scandals are hardly the only scandals rocking America at the moment.
posted by sourbrew at 12:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


According to this tweet, this was the third time Trump has said that the women accusing him must have been lying because they aren't attractive enough for him.
posted by zachlipton at 12:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Are women people?
The presidential election has turned into a referendum on whether women are full human beings or objects men own

Yeah, and it looks like the side of decency is gonna win big! Like maybe even 50% of the popular vote.


I know this was supposed to be encouraging, but I'm still having trouble mustering enthusiasm for an election where Trump isn't repudiated by at least 51% of the population that he has openly boasted of being able to molest without repercussion. If everyone he's assigned second-class citizenship to were to vote against him, it'd be a 50-point, 538-EV runaway.
posted by Mayor West at 12:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


I'm having trouble not having shadenfreude about the chaos this is causing in the Republican party. It sucks in a way, as this has the potential to remove some of the few moderate R's left in Congress and replace them with D's. Which I don't mind, but it further's the Republican Party's final descent into madness. I do feel slightly sorry for women in the Republican party, with this wannabe Berlusconi (he's not even a wannabe Mussolini) becoming their standard bearer and showing what the men of the party actually think of them. I know that decent, normal people who I get along with can disagree with me on the best direction this country should go, but right now they are being led by the closest you can get to a steam locomotive colliding with a burning oil refinery in human form.
posted by Hactar at 12:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I don't think he's really asking why women don't accuse Obama, that's more of request to the deplorables to step up their game and find someone to accuse Obama. He thinks this is all made up, it's a political tactic/conspiracy against him, so the logical thing would be for the right to find some more accusers to say Obama did something to them too.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Yeah, and it looks like the side of decency is gonna win big! Like maybe even 50% of the popular vote.

My nightmare is that in spite of the fact that I try to follow polls I don't agree with and the Twitter accounts of people I loathe, I'm stuck in a left of center echo chamber and Trump is actually on track to squeak by.

Intellectually, I know this is bullshit. O goddamn it scares me, though.
posted by Mooski at 12:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [22 favorites]


How can this post not have any references to Wikileaks or the Podesta emails, in either the main post or any of the comments?

Trumps sex scandals are hardly the only scandals rocking America at the moment.


Scandals? Yes they are.
posted by chris24 at 12:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [25 favorites]


How can this post not have any references to Wikileaks or the Podesta emails, in either the main post or any of the comments?

We've been discussing them in the comments of every election thread so far. This one is less than an hour old, so nobody has said anything about them yet. If you have a topic of discussion related to the emails (not just "omg the email scandal," but an actual "here's this thing and here's why I think it's important or interesting or says something significant"), then I'd be interested in discussing that.
posted by zachlipton at 12:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]




How can this post not have any references to Wikileaks or the Podesta emails, in either the main post or any of the comments?

Trumps sex scandals are hardly the only scandals rocking America at the moment.


be the change etc
posted by zutalors! at 12:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [24 favorites]


I went through a phase when I was about eleven when I decided to become a fan of a different football team than the one in my home city, just to be contrary and get attention. It was intentionally obnoxious, but I swore up and down it was genuine. That's what Trump supporters seem like to me at this point: they've decided to say they believe in something because it goes against the establishment, and they don't care about the details. They know it doesn't make sense and they don't care; they just want people to pay attention to them. It's not a very cool thing to do even when you're 11 and only pretending like you believe in the Chicago Bears.
posted by something something at 12:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [44 favorites]


New accuser on CNN live, was on "The Apprentice."

While Trump is in Greensboro RIGHT NOW mocking and denigrating other accusers.

I'll be at the 7:00 Charlotte rally.

And it's gonna suuuuuuck.
posted by Cookiebastard at 12:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


So I guess my intuition that a friday afternoon news dump was coming was accurate...
posted by Annika Cicada at 12:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


zachlipton: "According to this tweet, this was the third time Trump has said that the women accusing him must have been lying because they aren't attractive enough for him."

He said it twice at yesterday's rally, but obliquely enough that he could claim plausible deniability (at least if he weren't Donald Trump). Apparently that wasn't cathartic enough for him.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trumps sex scandals are hardly the only scandals rocking America at the moment.

These aren't fucking "sex scandals." Nobody cares that Trump had sex outside of marriage. These are allegations of sexual assault and predatory behavior.
posted by duffell at 12:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [281 favorites]


Dude's 70, he's no longer young, he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt on anything.

I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt. I'm not giving him a pass on anything. The things he's done are repulsive and it's a shame he doesn't have a past which might have given him opportunities of insight to change and grow so he would be someone with much more insight in his 70s. But it didn't happen.

It's repugnant that he's like this. I'm only saying I understand how someone can be like this. I'm not saying that I understand how someone can be like this ALL THEIR FUCKING LIFE.
posted by hippybear at 12:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


I know this was supposed to be encouraging, but I'm still having trouble mustering enthusiasm for an election where Trump isn't repudiated by at least 51% of the population that he has openly boasted of being able to molest without repercussion. If everyone he's assigned second-class citizenship to were to vote against him, it'd be a 50-point, 538-EV runaway.

Agreed. I actually meant it as a sign of both short-term joy and long-term despair. Hillary is probably going to win, and convincingly relative to other elections. Trump is going to lose, but by a narrow margin relative to a populace with a healthy moral instinct.
posted by skewed at 12:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]




THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DEMAND ANSWERS ABOUT RISOTTOGATE.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [47 favorites]


How can this post not have any references to Wikileaks or the Podesta emails, in either the main post or any of the comments?

Trumps sex scandals are hardly the only scandals rocking America at the moment.


IRL LOL.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [41 favorites]


Actual white supremacist: Trump’s success “proves that our views resonate with millions”

This article drives home why, as a lefty Bernie supporter/Green-leaner who hasn't voted for a mainstream Democrat in many, many years, I am WITH HER ENTHUSIASTICALLY. But more than that, it drives home my grave disappointment in most (not all, but most) of my fellow leftists who are actively LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU refusing to grapple with the fact that this election is now not a choice between the lesser of two (bourgeois neoliberal) evils, but is now in fact the choice between bourgeois neoliberalism and full-on white nationalist authoritarianism.

IMO, it's a political, intellectual, and -- yes -- moral failure, all because they don't want to reckon with the uncomfortable historical implications that are right before their very eyes, which will require them to abandon the same talking points that get trotted out every goddamn election. (And I should know: I trotted them out myself year after year after year.) They know that if they concede that Trump is some form of quasi-proto-fascist they have to vote for Clinton, and they don't have the fortitude to face those implications.

Electing Trump would empower white nationalists and neo-Nazis, period, and will make life immediately more dangerous for immigrants, women, PoC, and LGBTQ people on November 9. Anyone who doesn't get that the first order of action is making sure that doesn't happen has, IMO, forfeited the right to call themselves progressives. It's sad and shocking to find out that many friends of mine have turned out to be as narrow-minded and, frankly, as cowardly as those on the right who we long decried, but here we are.

[Rant over. Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. I'm going to go watch kitten videos now.]
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 12:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [179 favorites]


How can this post not have any references to Wikileaks or the Podesta emails

That state-sponsored hackers are trying to make a big fucking deal about political campaigns talking like political campaigns? That Wikileaks' utter disregard for basic fucking humanity meant that today they exposed a Clinton staffer's suicide attempt?

Yeah, scandalous.
posted by holgate at 12:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [79 favorites]


I know this was supposed to be encouraging, but I'm still having trouble mustering enthusiasm for an election where Trump isn't repudiated by at least 51% of the population that he has openly boasted of being able to molest without repercussion. If everyone he's assigned second-class citizenship to were to vote against him, it'd be a 50-point, 538-EV runaway.

Mayor West, the evangelical leaders who endorsed him are sticking with him. Because for them, it's not about Christian morality, it's about abortion, gays and (whisper it) race. And for some men and some women, that is more important that electing a decent human being as president. Getting a justice on the Supreme court that will keep it as a bulwark against progressive reforms is more important that not electing a rapist.

I think there are also people who do believe that this is the Clintons engineering a plot to discredit him. I suspect there's quite a bit of backfire effect going on.
posted by Hactar at 12:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


This FB post (screenshot) sums up the false equivalency Republicans pretty well. [via twitter]
posted by melissasaurus at 12:31 PM on October 14, 2016 [126 favorites]


Question/request: can anyone direct me to a source on how smashing HRC's Blackberries with a hammer was an actual mandated policy? I've seen that noted several times on the blue, but Google-fu is failing me.

I'm going to a gathering of friends tonight and at least two or three guys there are still anti-Hillary trolls, no matter how much they hate & won't vote for Trump. I suspect "emails" is gonna come up, 'cause that's basically all they've got anymore.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:31 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


2028 GOP PLATFORM:
Replace science grants w/$25 Applebee's gift cards
Public education scaled back to PE only
Medicare replaced w/ "roadside leech clinics"
Tax breaks for all purchases of arm-mounted nuclear missile launchers
Ducks are illegal

RELIGIOUS RIGHT:
Uh

2028 GOP:
Oh and also lifetime prison sentences for women who have abortions

RELIGIOUS RIGHT:
Perfect, don't change a thing.
posted by duffell at 12:31 PM on October 14, 2016 [60 favorites]


I know the theft of files from the Democratic National Committee seems like the kind of scandal that would put a lot of people in jail and bring down a Presidential contender who tried to benefit from it, but it's really just so 44 years ago at this point.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [42 favorites]


THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DEMAND ANSWERS ABOUT RISOTTOGATE.

Australia's got ya back, mate.
posted by rokusan at 12:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


NSW parliament labels Donald Trump ‘a revolting slug' unfit for public office

Parliament unanimously carries Greens MP Jeremy Buckingham’s motion condemning US Republican candidate for ‘misogynistic, hateful’ comments.

So a motion was passed calling him a revolting slug. Unanimously. Thanks NSW.
posted by adept256 at 12:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [51 favorites]




I wish anyone who cared about the emails was forced to do doc review for a day. They'd get over their OMG EMAILS SCANDALLLLLLL!!!1! real quick.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [67 favorites]


for fuck's sake im still 800 comments back on the old post

can't we all just lie down for like half an hour


And now we're 1,800 comments back!
posted by mikelieman at 12:35 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


According to this tweet, this was the third time Trump has said that the women accusing him must have been lying because they aren't attractive enough for him.

My high school handbook had a code of conduct, and with it came a glossary defining some of the terms. In that glossary, they defined "sexual misconduct" as any kind of physical contact "resulting in the gratification of either party". The joke going around was that if you ever got caught, you could get out of trouble by saying "actually, neither one of us enjoyed it."

The thing is, though, we were teenagers, and we were kidding. Trump is 70 and he's being serious.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:35 PM on October 14, 2016 [20 favorites]


Fucked-up circumstances of their theft and release aside, the Podesta emails conclusively prove that Clinton was running a pretty typical Democratic campaign, and that she is not, in fact, a craven monster bent on destroying America.
posted by theodolite at 12:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [53 favorites]


It's ok to skip to the end, really. No one gets any points for reading every election post, and the only prize at the end is more election posts.

Just please use the search function before you post something. There's been way to many links posted 2, 3 or 4 times here lately.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:37 PM on October 14, 2016 [29 favorites]


See this Wired story on Blackberry destruction. The upshot is that a hammer was bad because it wasn't destructive enough.
posted by xyzzy at 12:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


It's ok to skip to the end, really. No one gets any points for reading every election post, and the only prize at the end is more election posts.

See also: elections.
posted by rokusan at 12:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I know, consider the source and all, but come the fuck on.
posted by mudpuppie at 12:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


New York law sets the absolute minimum sentence for sexual assault at one to two years and the absolute maximum penalty at seven years. (source)

Just thought I'd leave that here.
posted by Devonian at 12:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Men, You Can Survive Without Us—Please Try by Ijeoma Oluo
I want you to understand that you don’t need us, and that you should get used to living a life not defined by how closely you can bind us to you. Because your fear of living without us is literally killing us. When you shoot us for not giving you our phone numbers, when you stab us for breaking up with you. When you force us to have your children, when you force your bodies on us, when you demand that we make a low enough salary to make us financially dependent on you, and then you beat us to ensure that we know that all we are is yours. When you shoot into crowds of us because we rejected you in college, when you kill us and our children when we try to escape you.

All of this fear that you cannot survive without us is leaving so many of us dead.

What bound us to you was circumstance—circumstance that you created. But what bound you to us was fear. And as we break our bonds of circumstance, you face an even harder task: breaking free of the prison of your own minds that says that you stand on nothing if you do not stand on our necks. That without us underfoot, you will fall into the abyss.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [110 favorites]


Surely all the sexual assaults didn't happen in New York.
posted by hippybear at 12:40 PM on October 14, 2016


He made fun of their looks more than once today:

@jdelreal
Trump seems to make a joke about one of the accusers: "When you looked at that horrible woman last night, you said, 'I don't think soooo.'"
posted by chris24 at 12:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


"We've been discussing them in the comments of every election thread so far. This one is less than an hour old, so nobody has said anything about them yet. If you have a topic of discussion related to the emails (not just "omg the email scandal," but an actual "here's this thing and here's why I think it's important or interesting or says something significant"), then I'd be interested in discussing that."

I think at a minimum Donna Brazille's abuse of her position at CNN is an important story, I'd also argue that Clinton lying about quite a few of her positions on the campaign trail from fracking to TPP is also a big deal.

Podesta axing carbon taxes from her policy, while she refused to give a yes or no at town halls is arguably more important to the future of our country than Trumps actions.

Which isn't to say that Trump isn't a shit heel of the highest degree and arguably deserves criminal punishment for sexual assault, but it's also not like we've learned anything new about him.

Meanwhile the Podesta emails are arguably one of the most valuable journalistic releases in history in terms of the insight into a modern political campaign.
posted by sourbrew at 12:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Obama has apparently lifted restrictions on Cuban rum and cigars entering the US. Surely this will help sway the wealthy magnate vote.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 12:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


No Fucks Obama just gets more and more enjoyable: "Come on, man."
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [69 favorites]


Are women people?
The presidential election has turned into a referendum on whether women are full human beings or objects men own


skewed: Yeah, and it looks like the side of decency is gonna win big! Like maybe even 50% of the popular vote.

Maybe 51%, would you say?
posted by filthy light thief at 12:43 PM on October 14, 2016


Meanwhile the Podesta emails are arguably one of the most valuable journalistic releases in history in terms of the insight into a modern political campaign.

Well, you go ahead and enjoy them I guess.

/shrug
posted by Artw at 12:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [73 favorites]


I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but it's pretty great. It's the Trump cover for this month's Letras Libres, a mexican journal of literature and politics.
posted by Omon Ra at 12:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Meanwhile the Podesta emails are arguably one of the most valuable journalistic releases in history in terms of the insight into a modern political campaign.

Come on, man.
posted by holgate at 12:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [85 favorites]


How can this post not have any references to Wikileaks or the Podesta emails, in either the main post or any of the comments?

Truly, nobody cares.

Trump is massively awful enough that any and all Democrat misstep, malice or malfeasance is way, way down the list of concerns right now, both emotionally and logically... and the Clinton camp knows it, even when they're coasting to a massive victory. This is how they're riding the media wave.

(After the election I like to think there might be a little reckoning over some of the things that have been overlooked thus far. Keeping them honest (well, as honest as possible) is a good thing, so I hope we don't completely abandon vigilance. Lord knows the fourth estate has.
posted by rokusan at 12:45 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


The Limbaugh thing about consent: "Okay, what did Trump do? He violated the fundamental principle of consent. So what do I have to do? I have to make it sound like consent is some stupid idea that Liberals thought up." It's kind of brilliant in its shamelessness; it's this very utilitarian approach to communication that completely dispenses with all that unnecessary nonsense about principles and making sense.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:45 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


ok, sourbrew, you have established beyond any doubt that these emails are very important to you and you'd like people to be talking about them. Do you have anything more specific to say about them and their importance?
posted by duffell at 12:46 PM on October 14, 2016 [46 favorites]


Podesta axing carbon taxes from her policy, while she refused to give a yes or no at town halls is arguably more important to the future of our country than Trumps actions.

I disagree. The states (in WA we'll have an opportunity to put a carbon tax in place this election) are taking the lead on this and other clean energy initiatives; when enough get momentum then you'll see action at the federal level. Trump's policies (or lack thereof) pose much more of a threat than Podesta removing a policy action from some campaign events.

Also, how the hell did Carlos Slim get dragged into this? Who's next, Jack Ma?
posted by Existential Dread at 12:47 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


And it's not journalism any more than the leak of hacked photos was a valuable insight into what certain famous women look like naked.
posted by holgate at 12:47 PM on October 14, 2016 [24 favorites]


zachlipton: Trump apparently went off on a 20 minute rant about how he doesn't know these women and they're just looking for fame, blaming Carlos Slim, even asking why nobody makes these allegations against Obama.

Yes, Carlos Slim is a real person: Trump Blames Mexican Billionaire Carlos Slim For Sexual Misconduct Stories (VIDEO) (Talking Points Memo, October 14, 2016)
Donald Trump is pinning the blame for a wave of sexual misconduct allegations against him on Mexican billionaire Carlos Slim.

“The corrupt media is doing everything in their power to stop our movement,” Trump said Friday at a campaign rally in Greensboro, North Carolina, before singling out “the failing New York Times.”

“The largest shareholder in the Times is Carlos Slim. Now Carlos Slim comes from Mexico,” he said. “He's given many millions of dollars to the Clintons and their initiative. So Carlos Slim, the largest owner of the paper, from Mexico.”

Trump also claimed, without substantiation, that the Times newsroom is part of the Slim-Clinton alliance out to get him.

“Reporters of the New York Times, they’re not journalists, they’re corporate lobbyist for Carlos Slim and for Hillary Clinton,” he said.

“We are going to let foreign corporations and their CEOs decide the outcomes of the—“ Trump paused. “You just cannot do this. We cannot let this happen. We are not going to let it happen where they decide the outcome of our elections. They cannot do it and we are not going to let it happen.”
What corporation do the Clintons run again? Their foundation?
posted by filthy light thief at 12:47 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


"Reporter asks Summer Zervos why she came forward with Trump accusation: 'Because I want to be able to sleep at night when I’m 70.'”

There was a discussion on CBC's The Current this morning about the accusations, and it had speakers on either side, but the pro-Trump speaker was a woman. And it was all the same lines we've heard before when Cosby did it or Ghomeshi did it or whomever -- that it's not proven, why didn't they come forward before, why not go to the police, blah blah blah.

Those lines, we've heard them a million times, but this was the first time that I've heard them from a woman (or at least that I took note of it). And not that all women need to assume one voice together on things or there's some larger sisterhood out there that should agree politically, but -- lady, what are you doing?

Summer Zervos will be able to sleep when she's 70. This campaign hack -- I hope she's capable of enough humanity to go sleepless. Sheezus.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:47 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


I want more recipe emails.
posted by asteria at 12:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


Podesta axing carbon taxes from her policy, while she refused to give a yes or no at town halls is arguably more important to the future of our country than Trumps actions.

Well, I think the pervasive and near-universal experience of women being sexually assaulted by powerful men is "arguably" more important than a former right-wing policy that is only considered centrist/liberal because the right decided to hitch their wagon to obstruction and fascism. If I have to choose between whether a campaign focuses on the pandemic of sexual assault or the carbon tax, I really could give two shits about a carbon tax.

As Gary Johnson said, eventually the sun will encompass the earth. In the meantime, millions of women will be sexually assaulted.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [77 favorites]


Also, calling the Podesta emails a 'journalistic release' is....something, I guess.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [31 favorites]


I can’t stop thinking about Michelle Obama’s speech, and part of what I was thinking about was the way that men like Trump and his sons and so many men of all kinds (#notall, but a lot) never actually get to know women at all.

What I mean is— I know so many funny, brilliant, sly, kind, tender women. But for many of us, a lot of these qualities only become really evident when we are feeling safe.

When I am around men who make me feel unsafe, my behavior changes. They don’t get to see elements of who I am, because they can’t be trusted with that version of my self. I can’t count on them to treat her well. It isn’t worth the risk.

And the same is true for so many of my female friends— we all tend to have this limited public persona as a baseline, and it gets more tightly controlled when the men around us are upsetting, or aggressive, or dismissive. Women I know as brilliant and incisive speakers go silent. Women who are hilarious stop smiling (except the tooth-bearing grimace men demand in response to their “jokes”). Women who can be unbelievably gentle become cold, brittle.

And it isn’t just men who mansplain, or men who harass, or men who commit sexual assault. It can be men who laugh at certain jokes, even if they aren’t the ones who make them. It can be men who say “it was just a joke” about something that clearly was not a joke. It can be men who say “he’s harmless” about a missing stair friend. It can be men who trot out the “why do you have so many shoes??” line.

And there are gradations. There are wonderful, kind, progressive men, who are still only safe up to a point. Men who condemn the outright misogyny of Trump while excusing men on "their" side. Sometimes it can be even worse, to be around a man you’ve classed as “safe” and suddenly feel your face freeze when he says something that makes you flinch inside.

I keep thinking of what Michelle said. It hurts. It hurts.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 12:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [243 favorites]


Do you have anything more specific to say about them and their importance?

Campaigns talk about pretty much exactly what you would expect.

See also: the hundreds of former campaign workers who have said pretty much the same things publicly. It's a whole industry!
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:49 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


I've been wondering about the possible Donna Brazile leak of a debate question in the primaries. It seems like such a stupidly fruitless thing to breach ethics over that I'm skeptical it happened.
posted by bardophile at 12:50 PM on October 14, 2016


I think at a minimum Donna Brazille's abuse of her position at CNN is an important story, I'd also argue that Clinton lying about quite a few of her positions on the campaign trail from fracking to TPP is also a big deal.
We hire politicians for their ideas and their capabilities as deal makers. When the electorate tells Clinton she can fuck off with her love of fracking and TPP, she is allowed to be persuaded or at the very least make a good-faith effort to implement her electorate's desires on those issues regardless of her personal position. The obsession with flip flopping does a disservice to the country because it creates rigid politicians with no room to be moved on an issue.
posted by xyzzy at 12:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [78 favorites]


CNN has a summary of some of the careers being pulled down by Trump. He's so toxic.
posted by annsunny at 12:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


People in this thread claiming Podesta leak is not journalism would do well to read this piece.

I'd also wonder how you feel about the release of Trump's taxes given it's functionally the same thing with regards to privacy.
posted by sourbrew at 12:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


And I meant to add-- part of the reason it hurts is not only the humiliation, but the thought-- don't you want to know who women really are? Who they can be when they aren't living under siege?
posted by a fiendish thingy at 12:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


Fancy Journalist and Cozy Journalist should get the Pulitzer, I tell you
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


On the one hand, a candidate who complains about a "war on coal", says he wants to bring back coal jobs (with the absurd fig leaf of "clean coal"), and laments that we didn't take Iraq's oil, presumably to turn it into carbon.

On the other hand, a candidate's campaign manager was nervous about the political messaging of something with the word "tax" in it, and the candidate didn't commit to taxing carbon.

Yeah, there's definitely a scandal related to one candidate's positions on carbon emissions, but it has nothing to do with hacked emails.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [57 favorites]


Obama has apparently lifted restrictions on Cuban rum and cigars entering the US.

Dammit. I better stock up before the inevitable 300% price increase on my precious. I also worry the quality's going to plummet as they struggle to meet demand.

As someone who's enjoyed All Things Cuban over the last 20 years, I have such a weird, selfish view of the US opening up to it. It could well raise the opportunity bar for the common people there, if there's any real estate left, but I worry it's also going to create US-style poverty, and... gentrification (for lack of a better word) is going to ruin so much of what made Cuba so amazing. Maybe I'm just too romantic. Or too selfish. Because rum and cigars and street music.

Oh well, it's Havana Club 25 and TuKola over ice for this thread! Salud!
posted by rokusan at 12:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


sourbrew: Meanwhile the Podesta emails are arguably one of the most valuable journalistic releases in history in terms of the insight into a modern political campaign.

Well, alleged emails, released by a political organization run by a man with motivation to see upheaval in our election process, from a hack by Russian GRU/FSB operatives. If you want to talk journalism, start by not seeing this as an FOIA release.
posted by bluecore at 12:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [45 favorites]


Leaked email revelation: political operatives operate politically.
posted by mcstayinskool at 12:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


"I've been wondering about the possible Donna Brazile leak of a debate question in the primaries. It seems like such a stupidly fruitless thing to breach ethics over that I'm skeptical it happened."

Jake Tapper today was taking her to task for it, I think it's pretty clear at this point that it happened.

It's also a big deal because she was supposed to the olive branch to Sander's supporters after the corruption from the DNC in the primary, the leaks confirm that was more or less a hollow gesture at best.
posted by sourbrew at 12:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I think at a minimum Donna Brazille's abuse of her position at CNN is an important story,

I'm a cynical 50 year old New York Jew. My first experience with fucked up politics was the aftermath of Nixon.

There is literally nothing more important than getting ALL THE PEOPLE to the polls to vote on election day. NOTHING. Everything that detracts from that message is bad.
posted by mikelieman at 12:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [22 favorites]


Surely all the sexual assaults didn't happen in New York.

It's the room where it happens, man. The room where it happens.
posted by rokusan at 12:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


More context on Carlos Slim and NYT: Carlos Slim becomes top New York Times shareholder (Reuters business news, Jan. 14, 2015)
posted by filthy light thief at 12:52 PM on October 14, 2016


Dammit. I better stock up before the inevitable 300% price increase on my precious. I also worry the quality's going to plummet as they struggle to meet demand.

i'm sad that this will likely remove all opportunity for me to get in on the ground floor of the new oligarchy
posted by poffin boffin at 12:52 PM on October 14, 2016


a fiendish thingy, I wish I had more favorites for you. I know I don't have the energy to be on guard, all the time, anymore. And that's why I don't spend time with men.

That is just so crushing.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


"Well, alleged emails, released by a political organization run by a man with motivation to see upheaval in our election process, from a hack by Russian GRU/FSB operatives. If you want to talk journalism, start by not seeing this as an FOIA release."

No one has presented any proof that Russia is involved in this, literally no one.

Lot's of US intelligence officials linked to the DNC have said so, but they haven't provided any evidence, and after the run up to the Iraq war in 2003 you would do well to remember press reports about military interactions without credible evidence.
posted by sourbrew at 12:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


My biggest fear has been that sexism would keep Hillary from the Presidency. I'm so sorry she has to go through the mud-slinging, having to see (some of) the women her husband may have cheated with/ harassed. Stamina? I do not know how she does it, how she comes out smiling and working her ass off every day.
posted by theora55 at 12:54 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Fancy Journalist and Cozy Journalist should get the Pulitzer, I tell you.

I smell a children's book.
posted by rokusan at 12:54 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


This election is really about ethics in political journalism.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:54 PM on October 14, 2016 [167 favorites]


With regard to the emails, I have paid ZERO attention to them. Why? Because it has been nothingburgers all the way down, every time. They have cried wolf too many times.
posted by annsunny at 12:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [29 favorites]


https://theintercept.com/2016/10/13/on-wikileaks-journalism-and-privacy-reporting-on-the-podesta-archive-is-an-easy-call/

I'd also wonder how you feel about the release of Trump's taxes given it's functionally the same thing with regards to privacy.


You mean the 1995 release? I believe those were released by one of the signatories to the tax forms, which is a leetle different than a foreign power brute-force hacking the DNC. Also, Greenwald is not exactly a disinterested and objective third party here.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [22 favorites]


Real question: what do you think Trump has to do to hit bottom? He'll never lose all of his followers no matter what, but say, 80% of them?
posted by AFABulous at 12:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Sarah Smarsh (previously) on who's really voting for Trump:
Earlier this year, primary exit polls revealed that Trump voters were, in fact, more affluent than most Americans, with a median household income of $72,000 – higher than that of Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders supporters. Forty-four percent of them had college degrees, well above the national average of 33% among whites or 29% overall. In January, political scientist Matthew MacWilliams reported findings that a penchant for authoritarianism – not income, education, gender, age or race –predicted Trump support.

These facts haven’t stopped pundits and journalists from pushing story after story about the white working class’s giddy embrace of a bloviating demagogue.
posted by ChuraChura at 12:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [39 favorites]


Gotta love those people who wait for a new election thread to yell about emails and don't seem to care that they're yelling over a bunch of women talking about the way a miasma of sexism, sexual assault, and misogyny, a miasma that is now embodied in an actual candidate for President, affects their lives.

Emails. Yup. That's what's important here. Emails.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [185 favorites]


Dick Cavett continues to lay into Trump, and give no fucks: "Brilliant defense, Donald. That she isn't attractive enough for me to have assaulted her. So, if she had been, she'd have been a lucky girl?"
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:57 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


Hey so here's a scene I witnessed the other day as I walked past a kids' clothing consignment store:

DERSINS sees A YOUNG GIRL PERHAPS 7 YEARS OLD and her MOTHER browsing racks of halloween costumes outside the store.


MOTHER (holding out a cape): Do you want to be a superhero for halloween?

GIRL (scornful): No that's dumb. I want to be Hillary.



DERSINS exits, choking up a little.
posted by dersins at 12:57 PM on October 14, 2016 [252 favorites]


People in this thread claiming Podesta leak is not journalism would do well to read this piece:
And you would do well to understand that it is Assange's stated goal to put a "secrecy tax" on governments and political parties that cripples the exchange of ideas so that these groups will collapse or lose power. He is essentially talking about being a "benevolent" Big Brother. Thankfully there is a simple way to avoid paying his tax--encrypted communication. Now we just need to convince people not under FOIA to use it.
posted by xyzzy at 12:57 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


Real question: what do you think Trump has to do to hit bottom? He'll never lose all of his followers no matter what, but say, 80% of them?

"I've got them rednecks eating out of my hands! I'll pardon myself then watch them all bitch about it while I lower all my taxes and loot the treasury!"
posted by Talez at 12:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


sourbrew: I'd also wonder how you feel about the release of Trump's taxes given it's functionally the same thing with regards to privacy.
Individual income tax returns — including those of public figures — are private information, protected by law from unauthorized disclosure. Indeed, the Internal Revenue Service is barred from releasing any taxpayer information whatsoever, except to authorized agencies and individuals.

Like all other citizens, U.S. presidents enjoy this protection of their privacy. Since the early 1970s, however, most presidents have chosen to release their returns publicly. In the hope of making this information more widely available, the Tax History Project at Tax Analysts has compiled an archive of presidential tax returns.
Emphasis mine - presidential candidates release their tax records to show the voting public that they have nothing to hide regarding their personal finances. Given this long history of candidates opting for personal transparency, Trump looks bad for keeping his closed, making it seem like he's hiding something. Paired with his record of fraud and illegal financial activities, there's a very good chance he is hiding something.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


Dick Cavett

What? /me goes to google.
posted by mikelieman at 12:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Real question: what do you think Trump has to do to hit bottom? He'll never lose all of his followers no matter what, but say, 80% of them?

I think maybe getting caught on film hitting a woman would do it, but I'm not even sure of that anymore...
posted by infinitywaltz at 12:58 PM on October 14, 2016


Lot's of US intelligence officials linked to the DNC have said so, but they haven't provided any evidence

The first analysis was done by CrowdStrike, who are reputable in this sort of thing, and then the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and the DHS officially named Russia a week or two ago. I know you think there's not much evidence, but there's not really much controversy here about who actually did it.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 12:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


I'm still waiting for Podesta to release his actual long-form risotto recipe.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [75 favorites]


From Newsweek in 2009, Healthcare Protest Deja-vu: Welcome to 1994:

By the time the caravan had reached Seattle the threat of violence was constant. All week, talk radio hosts, both in the Northwest and on national broadcasts, implored their listeners to confront the Reform Riders to “show Hillary” their feelings about her. This "call to arms," as she described it, attracted menacing hordes, many of whom identified themselves as militia members, tax resisters and anti-abortion militants. She estimated that at least half of the 4,500 people in the audience of her Seattle speech were protesters. She agreed for the first time to wear a bulletproof vest. Rarely had she felt endangered, but this was different. During her speech, the catcalls, screaming, and heckling drowned out much of her remarks. When she left the stage and got into a limousine, hundreds of protesters surrounded the car. They were rabid with hatred. Several arrests were made by the Secret Service, which impounded two guns and a knife.

Across the country, the Reform Riders encountered demonstrators bearing signs like IT'S SOCIALISM STUPID and pro-life campaigners worried that their tax dollars would be funneled toward abortions. The protestors were "vocal, virulent, menacing, and well organized," shouting about guns, gays, and socialized medicine. Is any of this sounding familiar?


And, more than seven years after that piece was written (and eight years since the Carl Bernstein Clinton bio it quotes) - is any of THAT sounding familiar?

Sigh.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


No one has presented any proof that Russia is involved in this, literally no one.

Obama administration accuses Russian government of election-year hacking

So you're saying Obama is just saying this - which could potentially start a war - to help his friend Hillary? Yeah, okay.
posted by chris24 at 1:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [60 favorites]


"You mean the 1995 release? I believe those were released by one of the signatories to the tax forms, which is a leetle different than a foreign power brute-force hacking the DNC. Also, Greenwald is not exactly a disinterested and objective third party here."

No evidence that Russia is involved in the hacking, lots of finger pointing, but no evidence presented if you have some I would love to see it.

And there is no evidence that Marla Maples released the tax return she may have, but without evidence it's functionally the same kind of leak.

And Glenn Greenwald is one of the last real journalists, he criticizes both camps regularly.

Like him I have no love for Trump either, but Trump being an evolutionary reversion doesn't change the channel for me.

Here's a Chomsky quote that was as accurate in 98 during the Lewinsky scandal as it is now.

""Same thing is true here - when the press focuses on the sex lives of politicians, reach for your pocket, and see who’s pulling out your wallet, because those are not the issues that matter to people. I mean, they’re very marginal interest. The issues that matter to people are somewhere else, so as soon as you hear, you know, the press and presidential candidates and so on, talking about “values”, as I say, put your hand on your wallet - you know that something else is happening.""
posted by sourbrew at 1:00 PM on October 14, 2016


Real question: what do you think Trump has to do to hit bottom? He'll never lose all of his followers no matter what, but say, 80% of them?

I've said this from the beginning: there would have to be incontrovertible, or nearly incontrovertible, evidence that he actually molested a child under 12 years of age. That would probably do it. Anything less than that: nope, not a chance. The cognitive dissonance in his supporters is too strong.
posted by holborne at 1:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Real question: what do you think Trump has to do to hit bottom? He'll never lose all of his followers no matter what, but say, 80% of them?

I think maybe getting caught on film hitting a woman would do it, but I'm not even sure of that anymore...


Put a (D) after his name. Much of his support appears to be of the 'piss off the liberals' bent (Deplorables etc). They'd probably celebrate a tape of him hitting a woman.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


I wish anyone who cared about the emails was forced to do doc review for a day. They'd get over their OMG EMAILS SCANDALLLLLLL!!!1! real quick.

Right? Holy shit y'all, if you had read hundreds of thousands of boring ass business emails produced in discovery like I have, you'd be yawning at all this too. This is what any organization's emails look like. Shit talking clients, talking out problems, inappropriate personal shit, whining about coworkers and vendors and other businesses, tossing often rejected ideas around....none of this is necessarily evidence of nefarious misdeeds, and a political operative's emails are going to be as full of this kind of thing as some rando C-level executive or department head's are. Sometimes it's of prurient interest, sure, and sometimes it really is the smoking gun for your case. But mostly it's all just boring.
posted by yasaman at 1:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [99 favorites]


it's his sex life insofar as he's a rapist, true
posted by angrycat at 1:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


When was the last time the serious, impartial journalists over at WikiLeaks released something that could possibly be damaging to Trump?
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [29 favorites]


""Same thing is true here - when the press focuses on the sex lives of politicians, reach for your pocket, and see who’s pulling out your wallet, because those are not the issues that matter to people. I mean, they’re very marginal interest. The issues that matter to people are somewhere else, so as soon as you hear, you know, the press and presidential candidates and so on, talking about “values”, as I say, put your hand on your wallet - you know that something else is happening.""

Dammit, dude, calling institutionalized sexism and normalizing sexual assault a marginal fucking issue is fucking bullshit. Enough.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [235 favorites]


"sex lives" is not the same as sexual assault. This is just fucking offensive. If you think an internal email is in any way equivalent to sexual assault then maybe take some time to think about your life. For real.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [214 favorites]


he criticizes both camps regularly.

ah, the truest sign of a superior intellect
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [60 favorites]


No one has presented any proof that Russia is involved in this, literally no one.

If Wikileaks is all about radical transparency, how come it doesn't release its own communications in real-time? Oh, operating in utter secrecy is apparently fine if you're handling stolen goods and trying to lead the press by the nose. Also, Glenn Greenwald can fuck right off.
posted by holgate at 1:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [40 favorites]


No evidence that Russia is involved in the hacking, lots of finger pointing, but no evidence presented if you have some I would love to see it.

Summary in the NY Times

CrowdStrike analysis

"I don't understand" <> "There's no evidence"
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 1:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [69 favorites]


And Glenn Greenwald is one of the last real journalists, he criticizes both camps regularly.

Sure, that's the mark of a real journalist. Criticize Hitler and FDR equally.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [61 favorites]


reminder that the diediedead mefi killfile does still exist and can be a very restful thing to use in these trying times.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [29 favorites]


AFABulous: Real question: what do you think Trump has to do to hit bottom? He'll never lose all of his followers no matter what, but say, 80% of them?

Calling his supporters idiots and rubes, and thanking them for paying for another golden toilet so he can literally shit on their donations.

They don't care about his abuse to women, they love that he hates minorities and Muslims, and that he's a brash bully. But like him, I don't think they'd like direct attacks on them.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


when the press focuses on the sex lives of politicians

"Sex Lives of Politicians" does not describe the sexual assaults we're talking about, admitted to by that irredeemable degenerate pervert, Donald J. Trump.

And "Sexual Assault against Woman" is **THE** issue of the campaign.
posted by mikelieman at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [41 favorites]


Michelle Obama's speech left me speechless and overwhelmed, and what repeatedly struck me is how universal the experiences she spoke about are. Not once did she mention Trump's name, and yet she very effectively tied his actions to the experiences #YesAllWomen have had with toxic men, time after time, throughout their lives.

By refusing to name Trump, she denied the networks a quick sound byte--a 4-second clip of her "trashing" Trump that would serve as a fig leaf justifying a "Michelle Obama goes on the attack" headline. Instead, CNN--at least while I walked by a TV earlier--was discussing whether or not Donald Trump was the manifestation of every creepy, condescending, or abusive man that walks the earth.

It turns out "when they go low, we go high" is not just a moral code, but a pretty fucking impressive strategy when used effectively.
posted by duffell at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [135 favorites]


""sex lives" is not the same as sexual assault. This is just fucking offensive. If you think an internal email is in any way equivalent to sexual assault then maybe take some time to think about your life. For real."

I have already in this thread staked out that Trump deserves criminal punishment for sexual assault, I was merely quoting Chomsky.

It is possible to be upset with both, and being upset with one does not take away from the disgust with the other.
posted by sourbrew at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2016


See, here is the deal: If Trump gets elected, god knows what will happen to my neighbors, many of whom are Muslim and some of whom are virtually certainly undocumented Mexicans and El Salvadorans. If Trump gets elected, the Ryan budget will make it so that I virtually certainly will never retire. If Trump gets elected, the Medicaid expansions will probably be rolled back, meaning that my retired parents will once again have to take from the money they use for my mother's care so that they can instead pay $8000 a year to treat my brother's diabetes, since he cannot hold a full time job.

Right now, I do not give a shit about any "Hillary Clinton is a moderate neoliberal who is exactly typical for a powerful Democratic politician" revelations. I will care about them once again when the election is over, because at that point I will be able to do something about them, however small. At this point, the only thing I do by yelling about them is create the impression that somehow there's "equivalence" between the candidates.
posted by Frowner at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [101 favorites]


Here's a Chomsky quote...

How about this Chomsky quote:

"I'd 'absolutely' vote for Hillary Clinton."
posted by chris24 at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [137 favorites]


This is not about anyone's "sex life". It's about criminal assault against women. I'm quickly losing any respect for people who try to maintain that this is about anyone's sex life or affairs.
posted by gingerbeer at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [69 favorites]


Yeah sourbrew, that's well uh..deplorable. This is about sexual assault not 'sex lives'.
posted by Jalliah at 1:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [24 favorites]


sourbrew, you still haven't pointed to anything specific in the emails that you find interesting, and neither did the article you linked to.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 1:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Sourbrew, please stop. It feels like you are trolling.

If you don't think people being concerned that a man who uses his power to sexually assault women is an issue, don't.
posted by annsunny at 1:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [54 favorites]


When we get into Chomsky quotes about sexual assault being of marginal interest we know an argument is no longer being made in good faith.
posted by xyzzy at 1:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [37 favorites]


Show of hands...As soon as Clinton is declared winner, Trump initiates a 50-state recount?
posted by Thorzdad at 1:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I live in Rhode Island, and we have a woman named Gina Raimondo as our governor. (We also have a Lt. Gov. aimed Dan who is...kind of a goober.) Anyway, yesterday a co-worker said that he fully expects Raimondo, being a powerful and competent Democratic woman, to get a job in D.C. when Hillary Clinton is elected president.

It struck me that I hadn't yet heard much speculation about who will form the new team after the Inauguration. Will it tilt toward women, or toward men, or be gender-balanced? Does it matter?

There is an official statement with name & titles online here, but I always understood that the initial staff doesn't stay for the long term. That is, they are specifically called the Transition Team because their role is to get departments & offices up and running, and then like as not they move on.

Are there any glaring holes in a Pres. HRC's announced senior staff? Is there any interesting speculation on who she might appoint? Is this a stale topic, and everyone but me has already talked it to death in the weedy ends of previous Election threads, when I started slapping PageDown a lot?
posted by wenestvedt at 1:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Can we reboot this thread?
posted by Scoop at 1:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [18 favorites]


Mod note: Couple comments removed. sourbrew, I believe you that you are trying to express your priorities about election-related discussion, but you are whatever your intentions coming in here real hard and loud in a way that is not working well, and you need to regroup and rework your approach if the message you're trying to send isn't "okay, enough about sexual assault, let's talk about what's really important". Please cool it.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [85 favorites]


Show of hands...As soon as Clinton is declared winner, Trump initiates a 50-state recount?

Donnie THREATENS to recount... But that sort of disappears in a news cycle or two.
posted by mikelieman at 1:07 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Show of hands...As soon as Clinton is declared winner, Trump initiates a 50-state recount?

I'd like him to name all fifty states, first. Unprompted.

(I've met Al Franken. Donald Trump is no Al Franken.)
posted by rokusan at 1:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [50 favorites]


I've been donating every time the Clinton campaign offers a sticker, pin, or sign, and now the stuff is starting to arrive. I am going to be drowning in merch by Election Day. Send help.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


"Ive had unique relationship with Trump. I was the one who put The Apprentice on NBC. I didn’t think he was going to run," Jeff Zucker says (reporter is live tweeting an event with Zucker)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:10 PM on October 14, 2016


Mod note: Fast moving thread, be sure to stop and refresh to make sure you aren't responding to something that's been deleted, especially if you're seeing a mod note in the mix.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


sourbrew: No one has presented any proof that Russia is involved in this, literally no one.

Joint Statement from the Department of Homeland Security and Office of the Director of National Intelligence on Election Security


The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations. The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts. These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process. Such activity is not new to Moscow—the Russians have used similar tactics and techniques across Europe and Eurasia, for example, to influence public opinion there. We believe, based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts, that only Russia's senior-most officials could have authorized these activities.
posted by bluecore at 1:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [30 favorites]


@briantashman
Trump on People magazine writer: "She's a liar. She is a lie-er. Check out her Facebook page. You'd understand."

Basically encouraging people to harass her on social media.
posted by chris24 at 1:12 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


> As soon as the Republicans nominated Donnie, "policy" stopped being relevant. If they wanted to talk about policy, they'd have nominated a politician, not an irredeemably degenerate sexual predator with NO POLICY EXPERIENCE.

Yes, thank you, THIS. When you nominate someone to represent your party for president and their idea of "policy" is "Build a wall and make the other guy pay for it!" and who says it would be a good idea for Russia to hack your opponent, you have demonstrated with complete, irrefutable clarity that you don't give a shit about policy.
posted by rtha at 1:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [53 favorites]


Real question: what do you think Trump has to do to hit bottom?

Put a (D) after his name.


I assume FoxNews already has this chyron all typed up and ready to place at the bottom of the screen during Trump's concession speech.
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


I think there are many policies that can come out of the country confronting the problem of sexual assault. Title IX is a law. Sexual assault laws are laws. The rules of evidence and the selection of judges are based on, among other things, laws. Statutes of limitations are laws. The EEOC was established by laws and regulations. Talking about sexual assault does not mean the election is suddenly "policy-free." Again, if the choice is "talk about tax policy" and "talk about the plague of sexual violence" I'm going to choose the latter because it's more important to me. And I'm a tax lawyer.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [54 favorites]


poffin boffin, thanks for the heads up about the kill files for filtering what you see (and who you see) in MeFi threads! For newbies like me:

Nancy for Chrome, diediedead for Firefox.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [27 favorites]


Personally, I love Hillary's policies so I'm good.
posted by agregoli at 1:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


zombieflanders: “conservatives: if clinton wins, bernie sanders runs the budget and there'll be taco trucks on every corner
liberals: can we vote NOW PLEASE?”
Considering the thousand years of darkness has turned out to be bullshit, I'm not holding my breath on the taco trucks.
posted by ob1quixote at 1:15 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


I will be more than happy to seriously discuss the shortcomings of the Clinton administration's policies (of which you can read in exhausting detail on her website any time you'd like) with all comers, on November 9. Well, maybe the 10th so i can have one day of just feeling good again.

Right now I'm too busy fending off a non-stop flood of rising bile and no small amount of retraumatization. I know it's sort of off-label usage, but these threads at this point are way more about processing than getting my wonk on. I'll be overjoyed to once again push my glasses up the bridge of my nose and crush some policy in about a month. Please leave a message after the tone.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:16 PM on October 14, 2016 [39 favorites]


Nancy for Chrome, diediedead for Firefox.

WHOA. this might be life-changing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


I will be more than happy to seriously discuss the shortcomings of the Clinton administration's policies (of which you can read in exhausting detail on her website any time you'd like) with all comers, on November 9.

I think I'll wait until January 21.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


Trump is 100% going to endlessly challenge the legitimacy of Clinton's victory. He started his "political career" spouting birtherism bullshit, after all. Challenging the basic rules of democracy and decency is the only thing consistent about his politics. I only hope, when he starts spewing the inevitable, content creators accept the lost viewers/page views and finally refuse to give him a platform.
posted by AtoBtoA at 1:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


It’s Official: This Election Is Driving Americans Nuts
posted by robbyrobs at 1:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


That is not evidence, do you seriously not remember the run up to the Iraq war with the press and the government pounding the drums of war with the reports of WMD's in Iraq.

So you're again saying Obama is just doing this - which could potentially start a war with a country with thousands of nuclear weapons - to help his friend Hillary? And you think this sounds reasonable?
posted by chris24 at 1:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Anyways, shaking it off. Here is my email opinion because I did take some time this morning to read some of them. If you read them and especially have experience with actual campaign or really any sort of political activism that includes messaging to large groups of people they are interesting because it is insight into how a particular campaign works. Like they're neat from looking at how campaigns works, how politicians deal with personal vs public service concerns and for people who like lots of wonky political operative voyarism.

If you take the parts that people are saying are 'scandals' then read the actual email most of the time it's a like 'what?' that's not what that email is about. Perfect example was trying to float the Clinton hates 'everyday Americans' like she hates people. Woah, that sounds bad right? Uh nope *sad trombone* not at all. It's all about her not liking the actual phrase as in using the words. So basically a mildly interesting email about what phrases and words to use in her messaging. This is so of thing is such a normal and mundane part of a campaign that it's painful. Hell it's what you learn you have to do in Political Campaigning 101.

Maybe it's 'news' to people who don't have much experience or exposure to how behind the scenes works but it's not new news. And honestly as far as behind the scenes campaign chatter goes these ones that have been released are actually pretty boring.
posted by Jalliah at 1:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [45 favorites]


Policy is one thing. Culture is another. Not to get all dewy-eyed optimist but if bringing this stuff to light and overwhelmingly rejecting the reprehensible statements and actions of Donald Trump by defeating him in a Mondalesque landslide moves the needle a little bit in terms of how we as a people think about how we treat women in this culture and maybe recognize that we have been doing fucking bad and need to do better then that will be a good thing that comes out of his horrific mess.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [28 favorites]


Dick Cavett

What? /me goes to google.


Yes, THAT Dick Cavett. Dude is on Facebook, and he's angry and on a roll. He's holding nothing back, and has had to edit himself after posting a number of times. Highly recommended.
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


President Evan a very conservative coalition dreamed this up at Stein Erickson's lodge in Park City, last summer. This is a well thought out plan to subvert this election.

By that standard, so was the reboot of Battlestar Galactica. In this scenario, robotic aliens from the stars launch a sudden nuclear attack on Washington shortly before Election Day, wiping out most of the chain of succession and catapulting Education Secretary Arne Duncan into the presidency.

IT COULD HAPPEN! WAKE UP, SHEEPLE!
posted by Naberius at 1:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Mod note: Folks, for real, slow down and reload and please don't keep chaining on an argument that I've already nixed a chunk of. sourbrew, I really meant cool it; just give this thread a pass entirely at this point, hit the contact form if you need to but stop responding in here.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


Trump supporter shoves protestor, puts him in headlock during rally...

...and the crowd loved it. I can't for these people to be repudiated at the polls.
posted by Lyme Drop at 1:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


As to what Trump could do to lose support, well, as he said, he could shoot someone and not lose votes. I'm thinking that if he started declaring himself (in all seriousness, as in began to embrace that part of him) as a member of some of the most derided groups, it might hurt him. Like something about having finally read the Koran, he's converting. Or an announcement that he's starting hormone therapy and asks that we now use "they" as his pronoun.

But without actually identifying with the oppressed people he's been shitting on, I don't think he could lose votes. I don't think proof of him molesting a 12 year old girl would get him in that much trouble. If it was a boy, then shit would go down. But even then, I'm not sure. Because at least he would appoint judges who are vowing to strike down Roe v. Wade and uphold Citizens United.
posted by Hactar at 1:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


It’s Official: This Election Is Driving Americans Nuts

Pshaw. We proved that empirically two threads ago.
posted by mikelieman at 1:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Thorzdad: Show of hands...As soon as Clinton is declared winner, Trump initiates a 50-state recount?

Recounts are typically discussed when it's a close race, because it's assumed that counts are generally close to accurate. That's the beauty of a landslide: it would require serious and systematic counting/ rigging, where a close race can be nudged and the offending party could get away with it (*cough* Ohio 2004 *cough*).

If there's a significant win for HRC, as it's looking, anyone in charge of recounts would laugh at Donnie. Or they should, because if they screwed up so much on the first count as to be able to flip the vote in a re-count, they did a terrible job the first time.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Somehow I missed this earlier but WTF? Now saying Clinton's not good looking enough?

@Alex_Panetta
Holy lord. Trump: Clinton walks in front of me during the debate. Walks in front of me. "Believe me, I wasn't impressed."
posted by chris24 at 1:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


That doesn't mean that there isn't a there there though, even if the more or less complete decline of the 4th estate in America makes drawing attention to it nearly impossible.T

The press HAS been covering the emails, even the big ones like the Washington Post and the NYT.
It's just that they really aren't that scandalish and once you read them, make a few comments about them then that's it.
What should be more of scandal though which I do think should be the bigger story is about the actual hacks and leaks themselves as well as who they're specifically being given to first.
posted by Jalliah at 1:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


I mean, it's unfortunate that we can't have an election about policy, but the election about policy was the primary. Now we have an election about whether women and people of color are fully human.

But the thing is, we will never have an real election "about policy" that will matter to me, because this is a right wing country. I will always choose the leftmost electable candidate (Bernie in the primary, Hillary right now) and the leftmost electable candidate will never represent what I believe.

And yet I'll still vote for the leftmost electable candidate even if they are deeply unsatisfactory, because as a visibly queer trans person I know that a right-wing victory will make my life shittier in immediate, obvious ways. And the degree of racist and anti-semitic calls for violence in this election has revealed to me that just keeping the people I care about safe is a more immediate concern than I'd ever believed.

Sure, if we have an election where both candidates are social justice oriented but one candidate is a big environmentalist and one candidate is big on women's issues, then there will be a policy debate that matters to me, because there will be a meaningful choice on the table.

So yeah, I don't think that Hillary's foreign policy is trivial, or that her palling around with bankers is inconsequential. And yet it's also completely unsurprising to me and only relevant when I can do something about it.
posted by Frowner at 1:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [107 favorites]


The presidential election has turned into a referendum on whether women are full human beings or objects men own

That was inevitable the minute Clinton decided to run. Or any woman did.
posted by emjaybee at 1:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [24 favorites]


Maybe it's 'news' to people who don't have much experience or exposure to how behind the scenes works but it's not new news.

Well, that's the standard distinction between "public interest" and "interesting to the public". But like I said last thread, it normalises behaviour that will be mostly be used against dissidents and/or for disinformation. It's a DDOS against functional politics.
posted by holgate at 1:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Nancy for Chrome, diediedead for Firefox.

Just to throw it out there for consideration:
Up to you, but it's generally part of the mefi spirit that you read as well as write here. It's a community. That's why we have flat chronological threads. Killfiles... well do what you have to do to be safe in extreme cases, but killfiles have been discouraged from the beginning.
posted by ctmf at 1:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [32 favorites]




Somehow I missed this earlier but WTF? Now saying Clinton's not good looking enough?

@Alex_Panetta
Holy lord. Trump: Clinton walks in front of me during the debate. Walks in front of me. "Believe me, I wasn't impressed."


I think it's more him trying to counteract the fact that everyone saw him following her around and purposely standing behind her. He says he never did that, she was the one who kept walking in front of him.
posted by Jalliah at 1:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Erm, waitaminnit.... Dick Cavett and Dan Rather are Facebookers worth reading? Whoa, 2016 really is weird.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [19 favorites]




sourbrew: No one has presented any proof that Russia is involved in this, literally no one.

Joint Statement from the Department of Homeland Security and Office of the Director of National Intelligence on Election Security


It's impossible to overestimate how difficult it is to definitively determine the source of a hack like this, especially if it was, in fact, carried out by a state-sponsored intelligence service. There is no foolproof computer forensic method available that could definitely determine the source of a hack. Even if a signature was placed on the desktop saying "PUTIN WUZ HERE" we wouldn't know it was the Russians. Files left behind that point to Russian security services might be decoys placed there deliberately to point the blame at the Russians, by, say, the Chinese, or by American freelancers working at someone else's behest. Encryption keys and signatures that match other attacks could be stolen from those other hackers for the purpose of masquerading as them. Ip addresses hardcoded into software could be decoys. It's all smoke and mirrors. Truthfully, sophisticated hackers of that kind of skill level really ought to leave almost no trace, which makes the traces they do leave suspicious. I'm deeply skeptical of all claims that we have narrowed the culprits down to Russian intelligence services. It might even be the case that our own intelligence services want to place the blame on the Russians for their own spook-related reasons. We really have no idea, and anybody who tells you that they know for sure is bullshitting you.

But even if the Russians did hack Podesta and leak to Wikileaks, that doesn't diminish the journalistic importance of these fascinating emails. Which point to no criminality but just business-as-usual political operations. They shouldn't turn any voters away from Clinton, who gives us no big surprises in them. But they are definitely of great historical interest.
posted by dis_integration at 1:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


for the House to effectively lead a coup d'état and elect him over the wishes of tens of millions of voters in the United States who don't even know who he is would be unprecedented.

It is not a coup d'etat when a political body uses a constitutional option that has been in existence for three hundred years and has been used before. It's reasonable to call it unfair or unjust, but it in no way equates to a /Revolution/.
posted by corb at 1:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


It’s Official: This Election Is Driving Americans Nuts

I really need these links right now. I see people engaged in the election here at MeFi, but in my life nobody else seems to be freaking out about it the way I'm freaking out about it. I am up at 3 sweating and shaking.

BREAKING: 3 right-wing militia members arrested for planning attacks at a mosque & a housing complex in Kansas, targeting Somali refugees.

And this is exactly only one of the reasons I'm up late freaking out.

Damn this election, damn 2016, damn Donald Trump.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


I think it's more him trying to counteract the fact that everyone saw him following her around and purposely standing behind her. He says he never did that, she was the one who kept walking in front of him.

I get that, but the "Believe me, I wasn't impressed" from everything I'm reading seemed to be a not so subtle 'she doesn't have a great ass' comment.
posted by chris24 at 1:31 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


I think it's more him trying to counteract the fact that everyone saw him following her around and purposely standing behind her.

Instead, it suggests that he, a 70-year-old man, still habitually checks out the rear ends of women, even when those women have literally demonstrated that they don't want to touch him. There is not enough soap in America to scrub away that feeling of squick.
posted by holgate at 1:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [36 favorites]


I get that, but the "Believe me, I wasn't impressed." from everything I'm reading seemed to be a not so subtle she doesn't have a great ass comment.

Ah got it. Yeah probably. It seems to be one of his political themes of the day so it would fit.
posted by Jalliah at 1:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


dis_integration: You are fundamentally incorrect. Advanced Persistent Threats (APT) use tools that they themselves wrote. They have distinct signatures, languages, and strings. I've been targeted by APTs and hacked by them. I know.

Unless someone stole Cozy Bear's code, learned both how to use it and the russian language, it was Cozy Bear.
posted by Freen at 1:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


I've managed to not get too involved in the election either face to face online, but this morning a mid-30s woman I know jumped into a face-to-face conversation with "you know all those women wanted to sleep with him because he's famous." I literally had no clue where to begin. On the bright side, she said she already didn't like him because of his attitude towards other countries, so, yay I guess? I'm still all out of "can" on this election. Last night a friend of a friend was all over Facebook with "yes he says unacceptable things, but a vote for Hillary is a vote for chopping up babies." I ended up muting that friend on media because while they have smart, kind things to say, my blood pressure can't take it. Can it be the 9th already? Hoping to find by absentee ballot in the mail when I get home so I can do my part...
posted by Alterscape at 1:35 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Real question: what do you think Trump has to do to hit bottom? He'll never lose all of his followers no matter what, but say, 80% of them?

I believe that there is almost nothing Trump could do, including: ironclad evidence of sexual molestation of a prepubescent child, being caught on tape disparaging his supporters, pulling down his pants and taking a literal shit on stage at the third debate, announcing at a rally that he intends to repeal the Second Amendment, homosexual sex tape, ironclad evidence of having insisted upon and/or paid for multiple abortions, video evidence of striking a woman, shooting a random person dead on live national television, pissing on a statue of Jesus, anything anyone else has proposed anywhere in this thread, or any combination thereof, that would lose him the support of 80% of his current supporters.

Were all of these things to occur, we'd hear some combination of 1) it's a dirty Clinton trick, 2) the video/audio/broadcast was faked, 3) she/he/they deserved it, 4) he's just saying that but obviously he doesn't mean it, 5) well I don't agree with him and of course that's horrible but Hillary is still worse, and 6) but Supreme Court!

He might lose 50%.

The one thing I could see maybe losing him 80% of his supporters would be if he had about 60% of his supporters killed and was totally open and honest about having done this. But that would take a lot of organization and time, either of which he has. So: literally nothing.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 1:35 PM on October 14, 2016 [27 favorites]


You know, I'm not much of a person for political speeches. They mostly bore me, even the ones that make other people go, "Wow!" That's OK, though. I'm a policy voter, so I puzzled at the speeches, shrugged, researched policy positions and went on from there.

But I watched Michelle Obama's speech because, somehow, I thought it might be important.

And it was.

There, this one time, was someone who spoke to me. There was someone saying something that needed to be heard.
posted by kyrademon at 1:35 PM on October 14, 2016 [34 favorites]


it still enrages me that police remove protesters from these political events.

And we now have to imagine cops at Trump rallies wearing trumphats when off-duty, because of cops elsewhere wearing trumphats when on-duty.
posted by holgate at 1:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


In appreciation ( apologies to Eugene Levy )
We are the MeFi Mods so pity us.

The users are brats; the comments are hideous.

We're gonna smoke and drink and moderate.

We are the MeFi Mods!
Srsly, THANK YOU.
posted by mikelieman at 1:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


Even if McMuffin were to win Utah, and in the very extremely unlikely event that there is a tie in electoral votes, for the House to effectively lead a coup d'état and elect him over the wishes of tens of millions of voters in the United States who don't even know who he is would be unprecedented. There would be protests and riots over such an act. The outcome would be as bad as a Trump presidency — possibly worse, in some respects.

You might be right about the reaction, but as corb mentioned it is fully within the constitution and considering the general unpopularity of both candidates it would almost be an example of the system working if you tilt your head funny and stab a ice pick in one eye.
posted by charred husk at 1:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


The MeFites United team at the Hillary for America online call tool is now live!

To join, go to https://www.hillaryclinton.com/calls/teams/d89cb034-6558-412a-a5ee-53ff258b3425/ .

The tool gives you everything you need to get started, and you can even do a practice session if you want.

Calling other voters has really made me feel better about the election - and as I said in another thread, it can help break down stereotypes. You'll talk to lots of people who may fit the reportedly pro-Trump demographics ... who are nevertheless planning to vote for Hillary.

You can choose from a long list of states to call, and focus on calling voters or volunteers.

There's at least one State list you can call as well, if you want to call for both Hillary AND a down-ticket race.

If you find yourself anxious about making calls, remember:
  • You can make a single call. You don't have to do a dozen. Do as many (or as few) as you feel up for.
  • Most of the time, you'll get voicemail. (I probably get voicemail or no answer 80-90% of the time.) It still counts as a call! You're helping confirm that phone numbers are still working and haven't been disconnected.
  • If you do talk to someone, there's a good chance they'll be positive and enthusiastic and polite, and you'll feel good about having spoken with a complete stranger who's also supporting Hillary.
Important notes: This team is not endorsed or in any way affiliated with MetaFilter; I just made it because I love this community and immediately thought of MeFites when I saw the Team button appear. In the vitally important Mayor of MetaTalk race, vote #1 Quidnunc Kid. And I chose the cat icon for the team because, of course, cats in scanners etc.

To everyone who joins up and calls (or DOESN'T join the team but makes calls anyway) - thank you!
posted by kristi at 1:37 PM on October 14, 2016 [164 favorites]


Franz Ferdinand's new song "Demagogue" up now on 30 Songs 30 Days site.
posted by emjaybee at 1:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I get that, but the "Believe me, I wasn't impressed." from everything I'm reading seemed to be a not so subtle she doesn't have a great ass comment.

Shooting the moon: no longer just a strategy for Hearts, but apparently Trump's campaign strategy.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I know we're way, way, way past this point now, but it still enrages me that police remove protesters from these political events.

If it makes you feel better, this link shows the aggressor being removed as well. What doesn't make sense to me is that Trump is saying something about how the protester is doing something disrespectful to the flag, but they appear to be fighting over a rainbow flag.
posted by peeedro at 1:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I love love love that right-wing news outlets are getting 'Emails: Clinton hates "everyday Americans"' headlines out of her speechwriters deleting cliché phrases.
posted by Mocata at 1:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


I am joining the call team and will add it to the wiki. Thanks for setting it up kristi!
posted by zachlipton at 1:43 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]




What doesn't make sense to me is that Trump is saying something about how the protester is doing something disrespectful to the flag, but they appear to be fighting over a rainbow flag.

It's disrespectful of the rainbow flag not to be an American flag instead. You know, flaunting it in front of everyone. Trump totally wouldn't have cared if it had been a rainbow flag in private, but making a huge deal out of not being an American flag is just shoving it down everyone's throat.
posted by skewed at 1:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


>I love love love that right-wing news outlets are getting 'Emails: Clinton hates "everyday Americans"' headlines out of her speechwriters deleting cliché phrases.

Anything other than little mickey mouse operations? Because that is a huge error. I'd be interested in seeing examples, but you can message them to me directly if we'd rather not put links to shitty media in here for no good reason.
posted by beau jackson at 1:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Greenwald, Trump and Assange are three men who share a common hatred of Hillary Clinton and the Government of the United States. They may have different visions for what comes next but they clearly want to destroy America. They don't care who that hurts, what dictators it comforts, or what tyranny is unleashed as a consequence. Assange and Greenwald seem to think that if only America was gone the world would transform itself into a anarchist capitalist libertarian world of peace, justice and freedom. Trump's vision is that America will have his name on it and now to his ego. He will be feared, loved and infallible. These fantasies are absurd to anyone who considers the real and complex challenges facing us such as environmental ruin, refugees, violent religious extremists, violent despots and inequality.
posted by humanfont at 1:45 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


@brianstelter
"Trump: "The media is, indeed, SICK, and it's making our country sick, and we're going to stop it. We're going to stop it."

Stop it?"

Fascism on line 1.
posted by chris24 at 1:46 PM on October 14, 2016 [28 favorites]


I'm not really sure why people are having trouble understanding how the qualifier "effectively" in front of "coup d'état" alters it. Everyone understands what the (marginally fleshed out) rules are for House selection of candidates without an electoral majority. That doesn't change the fact that certain applications of those rules would be pretty awful. See earlier discussions about how hollering "first amendment!" as a defense of shitty speech means you can come up with no better defense of your words than the fact that they're not outright illegal.

Real question: what do you think Trump has to do to hit bottom? He'll never lose all of his followers no matter what, but say, 80% of them?

I think maybe getting caught on film hitting a woman would do it, but I'm not even sure of that anymore...


Don't kid yourself. They would find a reason that she incited it and then they'd use it to say see, Trump treats women the same way as he does men. She wants to be treated the same as a man, right? Etc whatever deplorables all the way down.
posted by phearlez at 1:47 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


One fact from our FL poll that helps explain why it will be so hard for Trump to come back: his favorability with undecideds is literally 0

mfw
posted by Talez at 1:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


but they appear to be fighting over a rainbow flag.

Actually, watching more closely, the guy doing the shoving and head-locking is wearing a shirt that says "Gays for Trump", he has a big Human Rights Coalition yellow and blue equality sticker on his MAGA hat, so I assume the rainbow flag was already in his hand before the scuffle began. Takes all kinds.
posted by peeedro at 1:48 PM on October 14, 2016


@pppolls are the best trolls. I want whoever runs their social media to be my friend.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:49 PM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


Every time I think about how close this man came to the presidency, and how many people still support him, I feel so, so bitter.

I mean, everyone knows the world isn't fair. But how can it be that someone whose only merits are hating the right people loudly enough is so successful? He's going to lose the presidency, but he should never have come close in the first place. He's not smart. He doesn't know anything about politics. He's not a skilled businessman.

He's not even a skilled showman, like people thought at the beginning of the election. He doesn't even know how to work a crowd--if he did he could have won this election, or at least come close. He had more than 20 years of the Republican party laying the groundwork for him. He's the festering boil on the butt of white masculinity. He can't expand his appeal beyond his base because he has no self-control or awareness. He talks like an infomercial.

I just--I keep coming back to the fact that this self-deluded asshole thinks he is where he is because of merit. And that there are billions of people better than him in every way who are struggling and wondering what they're doing wrong.

I just ... am past the point of understanding people who support him.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 1:49 PM on October 14, 2016 [34 favorites]


"NEW: Hope Hicks on evidence Pence mentioned: "I didn't say that. Governor Pence did. I will let you know when we have more information."" --@SopanDeb

So Pence claimed there'd be evidence against Trump's accusers in "probably a matter of hours," that was many hours ago and no evidence. Does anybody in this campaign talk to each other?
posted by zachlipton at 1:49 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


@joshtpm
Congrats, GOP. You nominated Bill Cosby.

@jperetz
Bill Cosby actually gave money to charities...
posted by chris24 at 1:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [72 favorites]


I think maybe getting caught on film hitting a woman would do it, but I'm not even sure of that anymore...

"I don't know that woman, I've never met that woman, I've not seen the video, the video doesn't show what you think it shows, I never hit that woman, It looks like a hit but it was really just me congratulating her, and if I did hit her, I had a good reason for it, also Clinton has hit women." [FAKE]
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Right wing terrorists being arrested practically on the eve of a divisive election? I am so, so shocked.
posted by xyzzy at 1:51 PM on October 14, 2016



Assange and Greenwald seem to think that if only America was gone the world would transform itself into a anarchist capitalist libertarian world of peace, justice and freedom.


It's basically TEOTWAWKI-ism for leftists.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Factoid: I did not recall that HRC's Birthday is October 26, 1947
posted by mikelieman at 1:53 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


So Pence claimed there'd be evidence against Trump's accusers in "probably a matter of hours," that was many hours ago and no evidence. Does anybody in this campaign talk to each other?

The exculpatory evidence will be released just as soon as the audit is complete, okay?
posted by dis_integration at 1:54 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Every time I think about how close this man came to the presidency

It ain't over yet, and even if we're up with only a few minutes to go we need to run up the score and let 'em know there's no way he even deserved to be on the field.
posted by cmfletcher at 1:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]



@pppolls are the best trolls. I want whoever runs their social media to be my friend.


Me too.
And new Florida poll in 5 - 10 mins!
posted by Jalliah at 1:55 PM on October 14, 2016


Factoid: I did not recall that HRC's Birthday is October 26, 1947

Woooo, we are co-Birthday Girls [so excited!]
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Does anybody in this campaign talk to each other?

PENCE: I'm going on the Today Show. Any talking points I should have about the recent allegations?

TRUMP: We'll have these horrible lies debunked in a matter of hours, Mike. Completely taken apart and discredited. Believe me. Matter of hours.

[a few hours later]

TRUMP: [at rally] ...and besides, these women were soooo unattractive, why would I even want to [makes underhand grabbing gesture] them? Come on!

PENCE: [backstage] Was that it?

CONWAY: That was it.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [82 favorites]


@ditzkoff
if you're accused of multiple sexual assaults, a strange thing to say is, "If I *were* going to do it, it wouldn't be with that person"
posted by chris24 at 1:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [45 favorites]


For me this will always be the election where I had to explain to my 6-year-old son what a pussy is and why a presidential candidate would want to grab one. I know this is a relatively minor complaint, but it's plenty enough for me to add one more FUCK YOU, TRUMP to the pile.
posted by Lyme Drop at 1:57 PM on October 14, 2016 [82 favorites]


"I am frequently asked how Ron Swanson would weigh in on this election. I was able to contact a source close to Ron and here is the result:" --@Nick_Offerman (text below is an image, which I've transcribed, because I'm really sick of tweets that are text in images, and they aren't accessible)

"Ron wouldn't think much of Trump. First of all, he'd be very sad that a businessman entered politics. Huge step backwards. He had it made in the private sector and be blew it! Doesn't speak well of his decision making. Second, he went bankrupt 4-6 times, depending on who you believe. Ron does not like businessmen getting bailed out by taxpayers. Third, Trump disrespects women. Ron likes women. Because they are human beings and deserve to be treated with basic dignity. Fourth, his boys are fatuous suck-ups with slick hair.

Ron would not like Hillary either. She is a career politician. Ron has no love of career politicians. But he would certainly vote Hillary over Trump, if he had to choose between the two. Or he would write in Merle Haggard or Willie Nelson."
posted by zachlipton at 1:57 PM on October 14, 2016 [37 favorites]


Here is Trump mimicking the sexual assault motions that he has been accused of.

I must confess I often mimic a jerking-off motion when Trump or his minions are talking.
"You know what we call a person like that in Pittsburgh? A jagoff," Cuban continued. "Is there any bigger jagoff in the world than Donald Trump?"
posted by kirkaracha at 1:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


The exonerating evidence to the charges of sexual assault is under routine audit. It will be available as soon as the audit has concluded.
posted by peeedro at 1:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


TEOTWAWKI-ism

This was a new one for me, I thought you just super fucked up Teotihuacan...
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm really, really looking forward to not having Donald to kick around anymore.

Seems weird that the comments that invoke this don't seem to take into account that the "last press conference" Dick Nixon ever gave was followed by Dick Nixon coming back even stronger less than six years later. Does anyone really look forward to a stronger Trump in 2020 or 2024?
posted by blucevalo at 1:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Oh, man. I encourage you all to go visit @ppppolls entire timeline while you're waiting for the new poll to drop. The way they are trolling the Trumpets is absolutely a masterclass.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


@ditzkoff
if you're accused of multiple sexual assaults, a strange thing to say is, "If I *were* going to do it, it wouldn't be with that person"


Sadly, it's not strange at all. It's bad and it's dumb and it's gross, but it's all too normal.
posted by Etrigan at 1:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


[Meme shot of Trump gesturing lewdly at a rally]

This generation's If I Did It.
posted by tilde at 2:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


I want whoever runs their social media to be my friend.

It's Tom Jensen, the firm's director.
posted by holgate at 2:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Joined the Mefites call team! What fun, let's go out there and make some calls. If we make enough, we can get on the team leaderboard. Let's make our competitors cry.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


@ppppolls: Our new Florida poll- Hillary Clinton 46, Donald Trump 42, Gary Johnson 5, Jill Stein 1. Was 45/43 2 weeks ago:
posted by Existential Dread at 2:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Fahrenthold has confirmed that Boy Scout membership dues were $7 in October 1989. Why do we care? Because the Trump Foundation donated exactly $7 to the Boy Scouts of America. It's a piddling little thing, but the only way this makes sense is if he used the Foundation to pay his son's scouts membership for the year.
posted by zachlipton at 2:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [206 favorites]


I'm still surprised at how none of the republican candidates found anything close to this on Trump. Didn't they do any research at all on his background? Are they all so incompetent so as to to overlook all this?
posted by asra at 2:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Joined the Mefites call team! What fun, let's go out there and make some calls. If we make enough, we can get on the team leaderboard. Let's make our competitors cry.

Those Kuro5hin hacks won't know what hit them.
posted by Talez at 2:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


So Pence claimed there'd be evidence against Trump's accusers in "probably a matter of hours," that was many hours ago and no evidence. Does anybody in this campaign talk to each other?

I would completely understand if no one in the Trump/Pence campaign wanted to talk to anyone else in the Trump/Pence campaign. God knows I don't want to talk to them.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


So really no change. Which is fine, really, though it would be nice to see Hillary's lead moving out of margin of error.
posted by tavella at 2:03 PM on October 14, 2016


@ppppolls
Trump's last ditch attack isn't likely to work- only 35% of FL voters think it's fair to hold Hillary responsible for anything Bill's done
posted by Jalliah at 2:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


I made a Hillary caller so happy last night when I said "I'm already voting for her and I donate to her!"
posted by emjaybee at 2:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


BREAKING: 3 right-wing militia members arrested for planning attacks at a mosque & a housing complex in Kansas, targeting Somali refugees.

It's like we finally found those three poisoned Skittles. Turns out it was the white ones all along.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:07 PM on October 14, 2016 [103 favorites]


It's a piddling little thing, but the only way this makes sense is if he used the Foundation to pay his son's scouts membership for the year.

So much other stuff in those early years fits that pattern: memberships at the Met and other non-profits. He clearly thought the Foundation was simply his piggy bank to dip into for charity stuff, regardless of the rules on self-dealing.
posted by holgate at 2:07 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


@ppppolls
Trump's net favorability in Florida has declined 11 points in the last 2 weeks. From -11 (42/53) to -22 (37/59):
posted by Jalliah at 2:07 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


PPP's full write-up on the latest FL poll is really good. It goes into a lot of factors for why Trump isn't losing his base (spoiler alert: they're cult-like and reject facts).
posted by melissasaurus at 2:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


kristi, thanks! I wonder if it will credit the team with calls I made before joining? Doesn't really matter I guess, just curious.
posted by HotToddy at 2:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump's last ditch attack isn't likely to work- only 35% of FL voters think it's fair to hold Hillary responsible for anything Bill's done

Only! Well, I suppose that will have to do for Florida, for now.

It's hilarious to me that Trump just expects Obama to get these accusations as a matter of course. For the last nine years, ratfuckers have been turning this country upside down to try to get personal dirt on that man. The best they managed is that he went to a church where the preacher was angrier than he was.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [27 favorites]


Didn't they do any research at all on his background? Are they all so incompetent so as to to overlook all this?
This has been extensively discussed on cable news over the last few days. During the primaries there was a reluctance to spend money on oppo for an unserious candidate and it was too late by the time the field had significantly narrowed.

The head of a #nevertrump Super PAC was on cable last night claiming that she had scads of oppo and that this excuse doesn't really work for her. She also stated that her oppo made the recent accusations unsurprising.
posted by xyzzy at 2:12 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I have stopped frequenting these threads because I work on election stuff for my job and it's taking too much space in my psyche lately. But Wordshore, I love how you put these FPPs together and I find myself dropping into them when something big breaks because you all really bring it with the links and the quips and the analysis.

My friend and I are hosting a calling party this weekend using the online calling tool! We live in a royal-blue state so that tool is such a great resource.
posted by lunasol at 2:12 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


The best nugget from that PPP write-up (emphasis mine):
Undecided voters, by a 29 point margin, would rather have Obama than Trump. Those folks don't like Hillary Clinton or else they'd already be voting for her, but it seems they might go Clinton, or they might go third party, or they might stay home. But they're not likely to move to Trump, who literally not a single undecided voter in our poll said they had a positive opinion of.
posted by nicepersonality at 2:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [19 favorites]




At this point, the only way Trump could surprise me would be to rip the skin mask off his face and reveal he's an undead Vladimir Lenin on national television.
posted by zarq at 2:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


it still enrages me that police remove protesters from these political events. It makes no goddamn sense at all.

....In this particular instance were speaking of the police removing a man from the event after one of the other spectators put him in a chokehold. You'd rather the police have just let him be pummeled?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:17 PM on October 14, 2016


Wow, $7 to the BSA. It really sounds like he has treated it as the Donald J. Trump Tax-Free Checkbook instead of a charity foundation.
posted by fings at 2:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


In another reality, this entire election would be the perfect setup for a Mission: Impossible movie.
posted by ZeusHumms at 2:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


More from PPP (emphasis added):
-84% of Trump voters think that Hillary Clinton should be in prison, to only 6% who disagree with that notion. If you hate the opposing candidate so much you think she should be in jail, you're probably not jumping ship.

-Alex Jones floated the notion this week that Hillary Clinton is actually a demon, and 40% of Trump voters say that they really do think Clinton is a demon to only 42% who dismiss that idea. This measurement pretty clearly shows that 40% of Trump's base is the InfoWars crowd, so they're not going to be too dissuaded by allegations of sexual misconduct.

-We've talked all year about how there's a cult like aspect to Trump's following, and this finding might show it most of all: despite everything that's come out in the last week, 75% of Trump voters say they think that he respects women to only 9% who don't believe he does. Again, if you're willing to dismiss all the facts in front of you to the contrary, you're probably going to stay on board through election day.

-One thing that gives motivation to 38% of Trump voters in Florida is that they think the country is inherently better off with a man as President, regardless of this year's candidates. It seems safe to say the folks who subscribe to that school of thought are unbothered by the last week of Trump revelations.
His floor is astonishingly close to his ceiling.
posted by zachlipton at 2:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [66 favorites]


In the new PPP poll, Ken Bone gets 4% and Jill Stein gets 1%.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 2:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [18 favorites]



From the ppp poll.

40% of Trump supporters this Hillary is actually a demon....

........

This actually does explain a part of it I guess.
posted by Jalliah at 2:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


-One final note on the Presidential race, we tested Ken Bone as a hypothetical independent candidate and he gets 4%. He can't quite match Gary Johnson's 5%, but he's at least doing better than the 1% standing Jill Stein has.
Called it.
posted by zachlipton at 2:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


His floor is astonishingly close to his ceiling.

Another failed real estate project.
posted by condour75 at 2:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [117 favorites]


If we make enough, we can get on the team leaderboard

How does the team thing work? I can see how many people are there, but not anything else.
posted by corb at 2:21 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


...right-wing news outlets are getting... Clinton hates "everyday Americans"... out of her speechwriters deleting cliché phrases.

Oh, man. If that's hatred then Cortex fucking abhors drunk-me.
posted by rokusan at 2:22 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


During the primaries there was a reluctance to spend money on oppo for an unserious candidate

Shouldn't the logic be the other way around?

Jeb! Bush is somewhat of a known quantity. I suppose there's opposition research to be done, maybe you hire a private investigator or a team of strategists or whoever one hires for this and see what kind of dirt you can dig up that isn't widely known.

But it should be dead easy to just do a 5-minute google/wikipedia run on your "roaches coming out of the woodwork" candidates and run them out of the race pretty quickly. Isn't that in fact what happened with Ben Carson? His "front-runner" status lasted all of three days before someone looked into it and found out he's fucking insane.

Why wasn't anyone willing to run with the KNOWN crazy shit about Trump?
posted by Sara C. at 2:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


The NY Post has a Trump witness refuting the Leeds airplane story.

Trump camp puts forward witness to refute sex assault claim

I'll let you read it and determine his veracity, but this was interesting to me:

"Gilberthorpe has no evidence to back up his claim — just his self-described excellent memory."

Who else had a self-described excellent memory?
posted by chris24 at 2:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


That was inevitable the minute Clinton decided to run. Or any woman did.

I can't quite shake the feeling that Trump getting the nomination at all was precisely because of Clinton running, like he's some sort of auto-immune reaction in the right-wing body politic.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 2:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [36 favorites]




From the distant past of February 2016: How The Republican Party Has Failed To Dig Up Dirt On Donald Trump (HuffPo)
Multiple Republican campaign sources and operatives have confided that none of the remaining candidates for president have completed a major anti-Trump opposition research effort. There are several such efforts being run by outside conservative organizations. But those efforts are still gathering intel on the businessman after having started late in the primary season, these sources told The Huffington Post. And they worry that it may come too late.

“It is one of the many ways we underestimated him, I suppose,” conceded one top Republican campaign official whose candidate has since exited the race.
...
“Not taking Trump seriously as a candidate a year ago was a mistake we all made, so I don’t blame his Republican opponents for that. But the lack of evidence that they have been doing thorough research on Trump more recently is malpractice,” said Daly. “[I]f a Republican had committed six recent college grads to power through a Nexis dump in November and December, by January they’d have been able to compile a powerful narrative amplified by names and quotes that they could have put in ads by now.”
...
“From the beginning of the campaign we were shrinking our operation to get it down to scale rather than expand it. We had to focus our resources on the people who stood in our way in New Hampshire,” said Tim Miller, Bush’s communications director. “To go and invest in original research on Trump’s businesses, which would have yielded the big investigative stories from news outlets, takes an enormous investment of resources that we didn’t have.”
posted by filthy light thief at 2:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


only 35% of FL voters think it's fair to hold Hillary responsible for anything Bill's done

Well, we've reached the point in the year where only one in three people thinking a wife is responsible for her husband's feels like a relief. Good job Team America!
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


40% of Trump supporters this Hillary is actually a demon....

And 2% of Hillary supporters think she is an actual demon. I am not sure what to make of that.
posted by jammer at 2:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [19 favorites]


FYI, the man refuting Leeds claim is 54 now. So in 1981 he was 19, flying in first class.

And also this tidbit:

"Gilberthorpe made headlines in 2014, when he went public with a claim that as a 17-year-old he procured boys (some who “could have been” underage”) for sex parties with high-ranking British politicians."
posted by chris24 at 2:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


One more from PPP, the most terrifying statistic of all:
-Trump's continued insinuations about voter fraud are having a definite impact on his supporters. 75% of them think that if Hillary Clinton wins the election it will be because it was rigged for her, to only 15% who believe a Clinton win would be because she received more votes.
75%. That's 75% of Trump voters in the state that brought us the hanging chad who will, we can hope, spend the next 4-8 years screaming that our President is an imposter. We're so doomed.
posted by zachlipton at 2:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


"Gilberthorpe has no evidence to back up his claim — just his self-described excellent memory."

"In an exclusive interview arranged by the campaign, Gilberthorpe said he was on the flight — in either 1980 or 1981— where Jessica Leeds claimed Trump groped her."

And yet he can't tell us what year this happened in.
posted by peeedro at 2:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [18 favorites]


From the Gilberthorpe article:
In an exclusive interview arranged by the campaign, Gilberthorpe said he was on the flight — in either 1980 or 1981— where Jessica Leeds claimed Trump groped her.

Gilberthorpe, 54, said he was sitting across the first class aisle from the couple and saw nothing inappropriate. Leeds was wearing a white pantsuit, he said, while Trump was wearing a suit and cuff-links, which he gave to his British flight companion.
and
Gilberthorpe made headlines in 2014, when he went public with a claim that as a 17-year-old he procured boys (some who “could have been” underage”) for sex parties with high-ranking British politicians.

Gilberthorpe has no evidence to back up his claim — just his self-described excellent memory.
Looks like we got ourselves some horseshit, folks! I wonder if he could produce those cuff-links that Trump so kindly gave him. Also, excellent memory, but it could've been one year....or maybe the next? Suuuure pal.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


This Gilberthorpe guy seems to get himself involved in a lot of stories.
posted by dis_integration at 2:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


And 2% of Hillary supporters think she is an actual demon. I am not sure what to make of that.

As I said in the previous thread, I'd actually be MORE prone to vote for Hillary if she was a demon. Apparently there are 2% of her supporters who are already living in that space, and I hope they aren't too disappointed eventually.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


I need to stop sleeping while everyone else is posting... I made this comment in the old thread and was suggested to bring it here:

Not caught up with the thread for today, but I have to sound off about something and this is really the only place I can...

I'm really disturbed by women I know, who would call themselves feminist activists, like that is their whole main THING, and they haven't said word one about the Trump tape or allegations or taken part in the conversation at all.

Like we have all kinds of conservative women speaking out about how this is intolerable, and women are having this incredible painful conversation where they tell the men around them just how much they have been abused and assaulted, and yet, these friends of mine are SILENT.

I'd say they've just checked out, but they are still online, still posting about the Dakota Pipeline and other things here and there, but it's like they've just written off the entire election as Not Relevant.

Has anyone else see this? The women I would expect to have my back in this kind of discussion are just...absent. Or even posting funny memes about how both sides suck. Have we gotten to a point where somehow mainstream politics is off limits for self-labeled "activists"?

In what world does Michelle Obama's speech yesterday NOT inspire feminists to even say "Damn right!"
posted by threeturtles at 2:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


How does the team thing work? I can see how many people are there, but not anything else.

I had the same problem initially. Try closing the tab, and then going back in using this link: https://www.hillaryclinton.com/calls/teams/d89cb034-6558-412a-a5ee-53ff258b3425/ .
posted by une_heure_pleine at 2:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


chris24: Trump camp puts forward witness to refute sex assault claim
Anthony Gilberthorpe made headlines in 2014, when he went public with a claim that as a 17-year-old he procured boys (some who “could have been” underage”) for sex parties with high-ranking British politicians.

Gilberthorpe has no evidence to back up his claim — just his self-described excellent memory.
He's had an interesting past in relationship to sordid actions of famous (would-be) politicians.

And would the airlines have records of who flew when? Would they keep these records? I mean, if anyone really wanted to take the time to debunk Gilberthorpe?
posted by filthy light thief at 2:31 PM on October 14, 2016


So I figured since Fox's Chris Wallace is hosting the final debate on Wednesday in Las Vegas, that Fox would have to do something or say something to change the narrative leading into it. And they still might do it perhaps on Monday. But I tuned in about a half hour ago, and Cavuto was interviewing Ben Stein. Cavuto was saying lots of republicans have given up and moved on to 2020. Stein said Trump is "not right in the head" and called him a wacko, and stressed how big of a mistake it was that republicans chose him. But he said the republican party would "be back". To which Cavuto said "yeah, but people said that after 2012 too though."

So I let it roll over to the 5pm coverage, and they began with coverage of multiple women telling stories of Donald Trump sexually assaulting them. And while they kept the tone light by having one of the people telling stories of how she's gotten stuck in an elevator on the way to the broadcast (what IS it with these folks and elevators), the general idea was that Trump is doing this all wrong, that this is bad, and that he's going to lose. Their pollster talked about the election and she talked about how the difference between registered democrats in florida vs registered republicans, is like 520k to 60k. So she urged them to 'be clear-eyed' here. It was about 10 minutes after 5pm at that point, and I turned the channel while I still had my sanity.

So there you go. If Fox doesn't pull some underhanded bs by Wednesday, either before or during the debate, then perhaps Trump may be down to just his white supremacist buddies as friends, and hopefully we can vote him into the tiniest hole, away from public view, and move on to better and brighter days as a country.
posted by cashman at 2:31 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Show of hands...As soon as Clinton is declared winner, Trump initiates a 50-state recount?

Donnie THREATENS to recount... But that sort of disappears in a news cycle or two.

Especially once he finds out that they're not necessarily free.
posted by ZeusHumms at 2:31 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


MCMikeNamara: And 2% of Hillary supporters think she is an actual demon. I am not sure what to make of that.

Either they think a literal demon is better than Donald Trump, or they think "this is a really stupid question, so I'll offer a really stupid answer." Either way, I agree with their logic.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:32 PM on October 14, 2016 [40 favorites]


Who remembers random strangers who didn't do anything on a flight? I barely remember the weird people I've sat directly next to on planes, and this guy specifically remembers nothing happening 35 years ago?
posted by zachlipton at 2:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [68 favorites]


Assange and Greenwald seem to think that if only America was gone the world would transform itself into a anarchist capitalist libertarian world of peace, justice and freedom.

it's funny how you read this place, and there's so much talk of punching down, not up. until the worlds major military superpower gets criticized...
posted by andrewcooke at 2:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


There is the third and final debate coming up . Unlike the last two debates will the upcoming debate discuss any of the issues??

Right around the corner from the second debate site is Ferguson and not one question about race relations, civil rights, police actions.
Major hurricane Matthew hit, but no discussion about climate change.
No questions about immigration, other than will we or won’t we keep the bad brown foreign people out.
All that salacious talk about whether Trump did or didn’t actually grope anyone, but no discussion about issues that matter to women – no discussion about reproductive rights, gender equity, income inequality.
No questions about education, at any level – pre-school through college.
posted by robbyrobs at 2:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


And 2% of Hillary supporters think she is an actual demon. I am not sure what to make of that.

You know what they say. Better the demon you know...
posted by rokusan at 2:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


In another reality, this entire election would be the perfect setup for a Mission: Impossible movie.

In a movie, the villain would be competent and charming, or at least he would be propped up by a perfect operator. Reality hasn't obliged. The best it has done is Steve Bannon and Jared Kushner, both of whom must think unspeakable things about the other. I get a smile thinking about the smooth GOP kingmakers who have utterly failed to make a king out of Trump.

Earlier today, I was thinking of a short story in a children's book that I read when I was small. It was about some kids who wished it was Christmas every day. Children's stories being what they are, a magical force intervened, and they got that wish. For the first few days, it was delightful. Candy, presents, carols, excitement. Then it just . . . got old. They were sick of big dinners and candy, and they were beginning to see what all of this cost everybody.

That's how I feel about this constant vomiting forth of Trump's sexual malfeasance. It was hilarious and amazing last week when the Billy Bush tape dropped. It was great to see the numbers plummet. But these are real women coming forward with real suffering, and I hate to see every single one. It is miserable.

But trust me -- it is one of the "issues that matter to women."
posted by Countess Elena at 2:37 PM on October 14, 2016 [19 favorites]


So here's my question: is the Gilberthorpe story the "evidence" Mike Pence was talking about on the morning shows this morning? And if so, why did Pence know that the NY Post was going to publish the story in "probably a matter of hours?" The Post has certainly been in Trump's pocket all right, but that's a pretty close connection.
posted by zachlipton at 2:37 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


All that salacious talk about whether Trump did or didn’t actually grope anyone, but no discussion about issues that matter to women
Have you read the many, many comments from women in this and previous threads saying that sexual assault is "an issue that matter[s] to women", not "salacious talk"?
posted by une_heure_pleine at 2:37 PM on October 14, 2016 [39 favorites]


And Gilberthorpe was also involved in setting up the Piers Merchant scandal, back when Piers 'Moron' Morgan was the editor of the Daily Mirror.

He sounds like a British Roger Stone.
posted by holgate at 2:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump will never lose all his support. Here's what I'm seeing this morning on facebook posts coming out of the bible belt:

- God uses imperfect men to achieve his aims. Example: King David. Ergo, you can still vote your conscience and vote for Trump. Keep your eyes on the Supreme Court, that is all that matters. If Hillary appoints five new justices then this country is lost.

- Flashy new ads from the NRA, and a renewed push to protect our god-given rights to protect our families. Tied in with this: a push to allow open-carry in all 50 states. Ironic tangent: the same people who wrote that we need to honor the men in blue when they talk about BLM are now writing that we need guns to protect ourselves from a corrupt police force.

- New conspiracy theories about mysterious deaths surrounding the DNC, including two in the last week.

- A huge upswing in "it's not fair to judge me for who I vote for" posts, especially from women.
posted by kanewai at 2:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


So much other stuff in those early years fits that pattern: memberships at the Met and other non-profits. He clearly thought the Foundation was simply his piggy bank to dip into for charity stuff, regardless of the rules on self-dealing.

Speaking of The Donald J. Trump Foundation, anyone know if they got right with New York State yet? 15 days from 30-September-2016, was the deadline IIRC...
posted by mikelieman at 2:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


There is the third and final debate coming up . Unlike the last two debates will the upcoming debate discuss any of the issues??

I mean, yeah I agree, I'd like all of those issues and more to be discussed and debated in a sensible way, but having a next President who does not in any way commit sexual assault is an extremely important issue to me too.
posted by zachlipton at 2:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


I am reposting my response to threeturtles since I too left it in the old thread, and threeturtles has reposted upthread.

In what world does Michelle Obama's speech yesterday NOT inspire feminists to even say "Damn right!"

My world! Believe me, merely participating in this thread would get me all the side eye in the world from almost everyone I know.

And I mean, I have some sympathy. Liberal feminism isn't going to stop the pipeline, and that pipeline (and the accompanying disregard for Native people, and the oil economy itself) make women's lives worse all around the world. It's like, the needs at the base of the pyramid aren't being met, things are actively getting worse there - so why care about the top layers of the pyramid? And when, eg, Michelle Obama is talking about women's rights but not talking about the women whose lives are devastated by the drone program and military interventions, what good is her speech? What good was liberal feminism to Berta Cáceres?

I don't even disagree with that.

It's a cognitive dissonance thing - in order to live in the world around us, we have to take Hillary Clinton and the Obamas at face value rather than considering the powerful global effects of their policies. We have to think about them as social people - Michelle Obama as a woman who gets harassed on the street; Hillary Clinton as a woman who has been the target of vile misogynist lies her whole adult life; Barack Obama as a man who has been targeted by racists in vile ways for the past eight years. And that's all true - but to place emphasis on this requires us to de-emphasize these things that are also true about foreign police, security, drones, the pipeline.

It's like, the easiest way to respond to all this is to pick one view - the social view or the foreign policy view. Hillary is either a woman among women or Secretary of State winking at attacks on indigenous Honduran activists. We here take the social view, and that's not trivial - social racism and misogyny are real things that really happen and impact everyone. But there's this other view which is also real and also serious.

I genuinely believe that in many respects Hillary Clinton and the Obamas are good individuals, and I genuinely believe that they feel that their foreign policy (and their domestic policy) work for the greater good. I don't think they're just out for themselves and their cronies. But I think they're dead wrong about the world in many respects, and those are very destructive respects which cause suffering among people all around the world who can't even vote for them.

Trying to hold both those views in my head at the same time is what's so hard for me about this election. It's impossible to do, really.

But I don't blame anyone for not feeling excited about the presidency. I don't think this means they are not feminists or don't care or whatever. I am just happy if people acknowledge that we really, really need not to elect Trump and that now the choice is only Trump and Clinton - nothing else is really on the table.
posted by Frowner at 2:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [55 favorites]


Speaking of The Donald J. Trump Foundation, anyone know if they got right with New York State yet? 15 days from 30-September-2016, was the deadline IIRC...

They're giving him until Monday, we've now learned.
posted by zachlipton at 2:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Apparently, some republicans here in NM thought sending out this flyer was a good idea.
posted by annsunny at 2:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [24 favorites]


Not one question about race relations, civil rights, police actions... climate change... reproductive rights, gender equity, income inequality... education...

Yeah, it's been lost in this fucking pathetic shitstorm excuse for an election we've had overall, but all the bland, risk-free debate questions that seem like they're from 1958 have been serious disappointments. While Trump's insanity has been a monkey wrench at times, the debates overall still seem too close to managed propaganda events for my taste.

I know it probably sounds tinfoil, but I feel like there must have been some kind of inter-party agreement to not touch those issues. Or is the media so much a part of the business-as-usual machinery now that they do it of their own accord?
posted by rokusan at 2:41 PM on October 14, 2016


hey remember when Karl Rove had a very public meltdown on Fox News on election night 2012

ahhhhh

let's hope for more of that real soon
posted by Existential Dread at 2:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


Wow, $7 to the BSA.

Lol, what? He gave a $7 donation and bothered to claim it? I mean, I gave more than that to phunniemee's Girl Scout troop at last month's meetup. Granted I am getting consideration in the form of chocolate penguins so I guess it's not technically a donation but... you know, I'm not even a millionaire like Donald Trump! I can't just be tossing out double-digit sums for no return!
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [21 favorites]


For Donald, it's not about the money, it's about the principle of spending other peoples' money.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


The head of a #nevertrump Super PAC was on cable last night claiming that she had scads of oppo and that this excuse doesn't really work for her. She also stated that her oppo made the recent accusations unsurprising.
Awfully convenient to claim this now. Why didn't she use it then?

("Because afraid of legal action by Trump", I suspect.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 2:45 PM on October 14, 2016


He gave a $7 donation and bothered to claim it?

If I'm reading this right, in 1989 he paid his kid's DUES with a foundation check, not made a donation.
posted by mikelieman at 2:46 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


And 2% of Hillary supporters think she is an actual demon. I am not sure what to make of that.

In a poll, 4% of Americans answered that they had been decapitated.
posted by Hlewagast at 2:47 PM on October 14, 2016 [49 favorites]


Lol, what? He gave a $7 donation and bothered to claim it?

Not a donation; $7 was the cost of a membership in the Boy Scouts in 1989. So the Trump foundation paid the membership fee for one of the Trump children, I guess.
posted by nubs at 2:48 PM on October 14, 2016


We got a Trump mailing. They were asking for an emergency donation, in order to beat Clinton. I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.

Am I a bad person?
posted by Midnight Skulker at 2:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [180 favorites]


The head of a #nevertrump Super PAC was on cable last night claiming that she had scads of oppo and that this excuse doesn't really work for her. She also stated that her oppo made the recent accusations unsurprising.

Emphasis added. I suspect that the boys in the room didn't think anything of it, even when it was literally put in front of their noses.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:49 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


We got a Trump mailing. They were asking for an emergency donation, in order to beat Clinton. I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.

Am I a bad person?


I would have sent a different used household paper product, so, no, you're not a bad person in my book.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [64 favorites]


In this case, the $7 to the Boy Scouts probably was with his own money (that was before he started getting others to donate), but once the money was in the Foundation, it wasn't his money anymore, so he shouldn't have been using it to buy things for his family, like a year's membership in the scouts.
posted by zachlipton at 2:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


We got a Trump mailing. They were asking for an emergency donation, in order to beat Clinton. I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.

Am I a bad person?


As long as you didn't send anything worse than an envelope full of glitter I think it's fine.
posted by Francis at 2:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Am I a bad person?

Depends. Did you remember to write "fuck you" on it first?
posted by Paul Slade at 2:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [25 favorites]


We got a Trump mailing. They were asking for an emergency donation, in order to beat Clinton. I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.

Am I a bad person?


They say give 'til it hurts. They don't specify who gets hurt.
posted by nubs at 2:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


Waste of a perfectly good table napkin. Yes, bad.
posted by Namlit at 2:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Which of the Trump spawn joined the Boy Scouts and how many small forest creatures did they get caught torturing before being kicked out?
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


".@ArdenFarhi with a good catch. A discrepancy: Gilberthrope says Leeds was wearing white pants. Leeds says Trump ran his hand up her skirt." --@SopanDeb
posted by zachlipton at 2:53 PM on October 14, 2016 [18 favorites]


And 2% of Hillary supporters think she is an actual demon. I am not sure what to make of that.

Would someone attach either "[real]" or "[fake]" to this and give me a source? Because if this is true I really, really want to know more about that two percent.
posted by KChasm at 2:54 PM on October 14, 2016


Who else had a self-described excellent memory?

Trump can't recall saying he has one of the world's best memories
posted by kirkaracha at 2:54 PM on October 14, 2016 [18 favorites]


A bit odd. Earlier today, McKay Coppins of Buzzfeed tweeted about a Trump rally: "Trump supporter in the back shouting at the candidate, "Stay on the issues!""

Then Kellyanne Conway just replied: "That was me! I was there..."

Sad.
posted by zachlipton at 2:54 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


In the new PPP poll, Ken Bone gets 4% and Jill Stein gets 1%.

If I were Stein, I'd be seeking the coveted Ken Bone endorsement.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


It's like, the easiest way to respond to all this is to pick one view - the social view or the foreign policy view. Hillary is either a woman among women or Secretary of State winking at attacks on indigenous Honduran activists... -- Frowner

The media and both candidates themselves chose the 100% full-court press on the social view this election, and we the people have gone along with it with full gusto from all sides. And while hopefully some good comes out of it (specifically around real social equality for women, and the greater seriousness people are treating "women's issues" with) I also feel like it's being used duplicitously sometimes by those on each side to deflect from talking about foreign-policy impacts on the world at large or other "non-social" issues that deserve attention, too.

But we're three quarters of the way into a messy election, and the best I can hope for now is that the next president, whomever she may be, will be held to great scrutiny and checked-and-balanced into upgrading America's ethical stature, because yeah, invasions and assassinations and coups and drone strikes and illegal prisons and domestic surveillance and on and on... we need a course correction as a nation very, very badly.

I wish the election could have been about those things, but it was probably never going to happen with these candidates. And the wheels turn slowly, I suppose.

Next time, hopefully.

(I don't really need a (sic) up there after my 121st word, do I?)
posted by rokusan at 2:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]




We got a Trump mailing. They were asking for an emergency donation, in order to beat Clinton. I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.

Am I a bad person?


I'm sorry, but this is adorable.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [34 favorites]


Which of the Trump spawn joined the Boy Scouts and how many small forest creatures did they get caught torturing before being kicked out?

look I don't like the Trump sons either but given how quickly he was seen to devour them, bones and all, it's not at all fair to say that Eric tortured those squirrels
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [19 favorites]


And 2% of Hillary supporters think she is an actual demon. I am not sure what to make of that.

Would someone attach either "[real]" or "[fake]" to this and give me a source? Because if this is true I really, really want to know more about that two percent.


[real]

And 9% of Hillary supporters aren't sure. See this PPP document.
posted by Numenius at 2:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Anyone interested in the militia/sovcit movements should follow @jjmacnab on Twitter. I figure it'll be useful in the upcoming months, because they're growing more and more violent as they get more and more paranoid.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Donald Trump, Jr., has some words of advice for women who can't handle sexual harassment in the workplace: Go teach kindergarten.

you know those superhero costumes with the big foam muscles built into them? your average four year old wearing one of those is doing a far better job of playacting at being a Real Big Man than Don Jr with this shit
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


And 9% of Hillary supporters aren't sure [if Hillary is an actual demon].

To be fair, my answer to that question would be WTF? And possibly a non-serious answer or a sarcastic one.
posted by Francis at 3:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


We got a Trump mailing. They were asking for an emergency donation, in order to beat Clinton. I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.

Am I a bad person?


NO! You are NOT a bad person!

A "bad person" ( like myself ) would have attached that postage paid envelope to a cinder-block.
posted by mikelieman at 3:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [24 favorites]


If you can't handle some of the basic stuff that's become a problem in the workforce today, you don't belong in the workforce -- Trump Jr.

Jesus wept.
posted by en forme de poire at 3:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Kids get candy on Halloween. That's the deal.

/igotarock
posted by petebest at 3:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


And 2% of Hillary supporters think she is an actual demon. I am not sure what to make of that.

I insist on internals. I want a breakdown of support by "because" and "despite".
posted by The Bellman at 3:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


The cinder block thing sadly doesn't work anymore.
posted by Sequence at 3:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


If Hillary appoints five new justices then this country is lost.

They spelled "two" wrong. My message of condolence.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


The cinder block thing sadly doesn't work anymore.

/me <sad> I am teh olds... </sad>
posted by mikelieman at 3:07 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


"Trump's airplane witness once got the press to cover his imaginary engagement to a made-up fiancée." --@studentactivism (sources back to a Private Eye story)

Did they find literally the least credible person to make these claims that he remembers nothing happening 35 years ago? I'm beginning to think Trump himself has more credibility than Gilberthrope.
posted by zachlipton at 3:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [28 favorites]


Donald Trump Jr. has to spend the entire rest of his life with the name "Donald Trump"
posted by theodolite at 3:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [27 favorites]


I wish the election could have been about those things, but it was probably never going to happen with these candidates.

Not these candidates, just the one candidate. The one candidate who brags about be able to get away with assaulting women.

The assholes who put him forth as a candidate get some of the blame too.
posted by ghost phoneme at 3:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Three Kansas Men Charged With Plotting a Bombing Attack Targeting the Local Somali Immigrant Community. [official DOJ statement]

Here in MPLS, we have several apartment complexes that house large numbers of Somali families who came here as refugees.

When I think about if someone were to try to blow those up, creating god knows how much carnage and death, well, I know what I'd do with a cinderblock and five minutes alone with that person.

Just terrifying and I'm sure lots of Somali Minneapolitans are feeling pretty worried tonight.
posted by Frowner at 3:10 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


The MeFites United team at the Hillary for America online call tool is now live!

To join, go to https://www.hillaryclinton.com/calls/teams/d89cb034-6558-412a-a5ee-53ff258b3425/ .


Do you have to be on Facebook to join? If not, how?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I can't imagine this hasn't been posted yet, however, I think Laurie Penny's endorsement of Hillary Clinton fits nicely into the Frowner's discussion of the uncomfortable union of electoral politics and feminist activism. E.g.
A general election is about nothing more or less than choosing your enemy. Any government leader must be considered an enemy to those who believe in radical change. Hillary Clinton is not yet that enemy but by damn. I hope she gets to be. Hillary Clinton is the sort of enemy I’ve been dreaming of over ten years of political work. She’s the kind of enemy you can respect. I look forward to fighting her on her commitment to climate protection, on workers' rights, on welfare, on foreign policy.
posted by chrchr at 3:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [48 favorites]


Donald Trump Jr. has to spend the entire rest of his life with the name "Donald Trump"

Depending on how the bankruptcy proceedings go, he may have to change the name he uses in any professional context[fake/hopefully real]
posted by mikelieman at 3:12 PM on October 14, 2016


Ugh, going back through the day's news now I'm out of work.

I only have enough in me to fuel inchoate, bile-spitting rage once per day, and that's sadly just not enough to keep up with Trump's petty hate machine. At this point I've reached the despondent John Hammond stage of response.
posted by phunniemee at 3:12 PM on October 14, 2016


>Three Kansas Men Charged With Plotting a Bombing Attack Targeting the Local Somali Immigrant Community. [official DOJ statement]
Curtis Allen and Gavin Wright, both 49, and of Liberal, Kansas ...
I see the FOX News headlines already: "Kansas Liberals Target Apartment Complex."
posted by octobersurprise at 3:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]




ChurchHatesTucker, you can create an account on HillaryClinton.com to join the call team and you don't have to use Facebook.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 3:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Also can someone please photoshop a Trump themed cover of that NIN album? Because it's only one letter and Petty Hate Machine is totally his thing. TIA.
posted by phunniemee at 3:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]




Send Trump condoms. That is the kind of donation he needs. See if you can get some colorful ones, or a nice note. Send a lot, to each state. Or send him single packages of moist towelettes, or one package of towelettes, and one condom. Yeah.
posted by Oyéah at 3:16 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Speaking of Minneapolis, last weekend I flew there from California to meet my brother, who flew in from the DC area, to go to the Vikings game. We wanted to watch the debate Sunday night so I found a watch party at a comedy club. I figured, blue state, comedy club, should be fun.

The first sign of trouble was that the TVs were all tuned to Fox. Turns out that the party was being hosted by a right-ist radio talk show and about 2/3 of the crowd were Trump supporters. They loved the debate and his many powerful burns. Luckily we were on the side with some other liberals. I only yelled "shut up" once, at a bellowing conspiracy theorist who was too loud for everyone. It was an interesting experience.

Game report: the new stadium is awesome and the Vikings crushed the Texans to go 5-0.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Donald Trump, and his accusations that men of color and immigrants are rapists (projecting much, Donnie?) reminds me of the hysteria whipped up by white men who claimed that black men wanted nothing so much as to rape white women, and deserved to be lynched - but it was white men who were raping black women with impunity. And today, Native American and Alaska Native women report the highest rates of sexual assaults of any group - and eighty-five percent of their attackers were non-Native men.

It's really high time for white men to start getting their own houses in order with regard to rape and sexual assault. I don't think that celebrity is a risk factor for rape, but I do think that rich men, and men who present a "respectable" facade, get away with rape and assault, in large part because they are believed more than their accusers. I'm not glad that Donald did what he did - he's a skid mark on humanity's underwear - but I hope that in the aftermath, women will be believed more and will be safer. Rape is not "male nature." It is a product of a patriarchal, hierarchical culture that values men more than women.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 3:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [45 favorites]




Pence is either incredibly gullible or a malicious gaslighter just like his running mate. I wonder if he thinks Carlos Slim is out to destroy him, too.
posted by xyzzy at 3:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


> "Gilberthorpe has no evidence to back up his claim — just his self-described excellent memory."
> "In an exclusive interview arranged by the campaign, Gilberthorpe said he was on the flight — in either 1980 or 1981 ..."
> "Gilberthorpe made headlines in 2014, when he went public with a claim that as a 17-year-old he procured boys (some who 'could have been' underage) for sex parties with high-ranking British politicians."
> "Gilberthorpe was also involved in setting up the Piers Merchant scandal ..."
> "Trump's airplane witness once got the press to cover his imaginary engagement to a made-up fiancée."
> "Gilberthrope says Leeds was wearing white pants. Leeds says Trump ran his hand up her skirt."

... they really think people will just friggin' swallow anything they say, don't they?
posted by kyrademon at 3:21 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


"No refugees and immigrants are gonna come here and become terrorists! Those are jobs for Americans!"

Man, I don't get right wing militias.
posted by bluecore at 3:21 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


We got a Trump mailing. They were asking for an emergency donation, in order to beat Clinton. I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.
Am I a bad person?


I would have enclosed a cash contribution: $5 worth of pennies weighing approximately 3 pounds, with approximately the same amount of slugs, mixed in order to require the envelope opening clerk to spend some time sorting through them and ensure that the cost of postage > the cash contribution. Sometimes it feels so good to be bad.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:22 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


... they really think people will just friggin' swallow anything, don't they?" FTFY
posted by Oyéah at 3:23 PM on October 14, 2016


"In 2005, Natasha Stoynoff phoned me, distraught, crying. Said Trump assaulted her. She is telling truth. #natashastoynoff" --@paulmcl

More corroboration from someone at the time.
posted by zachlipton at 3:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [18 favorites]


I think a table napkin donation is a charmingly inexplicable "F U."
posted by agregoli at 3:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


I've been joking-not-joking about the Republican Party having a moment of reckoning wherein no amount of cognitive dissonance would mask the massive divide between what it preaches and what it practices for years.

Now I'm here and I want off this ride. I think, all evidence to the contrary, that cooler heads will prevail in the Republican Party, but I'm mainly worried about the disaffected/distracted/disappointed rump party that remains, mainly because they have alot of guns not alot of fucks to give.
posted by eclectist at 3:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I think the point is that it wasn't a donation - Trump was [likely] paying for his son's membership out of his foundation's coffers rather than his own pocketbook.

Why...Why wouldn't you just give the nanny a 10 dollar bill to hand over at pick up or drop off. This detail is just so absurd and petty that I can't stop thinking about it. Seven dollars! He fraudulently used his non-profit foundation to get a tax break on SEVEN DOLLARS! Do rich people find it distasteful to touch actual bank notes? Did he not maintain some kind of household checking account? Is this amazement just revealing me as the unsophisticated working stiff I truly am? My God, they really are different.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 3:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [45 favorites]


Y'all! Small-town Mississippi paper, the Meridian Star, just endorsed Clinton. If you have a few bucks and a yen to read a small paper from the deep red South, consider buying a subscription. This is big (small) news, and I'm afraid may kill this brave little paper.
Meridian Star
posted by thebrokedown at 3:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [80 favorites]


Gilberthorpe is even challenging Leeds to a public confrontation.

“I will go to head to head with her — I will meet her again. I will see her eyes across the table with my eyes and I will challenge her on the points she made. And I’ll tell you what, I would do this whether it was for Trump, for Clinton, for Obama, or for any man who’s been accused of sexually molesting someone when I know he did not,” he said.


this individual sounds not only very credible but also extremely balanced
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [23 favorites]


Steve Deace, on the Trump supporters shouting "We don't care!" about the sexual assaults:

@stevedeaceshow "GIVE US BARABBAS!" "GIVE US BARABBAS!"
posted by corb at 3:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [34 favorites]


I thought I saw a news segment that interviewed one of Trump's former accounts payable people (but can't seem to find it now). She said that anytime they had a request for a payment come down, they would look in a "big book" of charities and if the name matched, they'd pay it from the Foundation account - regardless of whether the payment was proper or not.
posted by melissasaurus at 3:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


It's like, the needs at the base of the pyramid aren't being met, things are actively getting worse there - so why care about the top layers of the pyramid? And when, eg, Michelle Obama is talking about women's rights but not talking about the women whose lives are devastated by the drone program and military interventions, what good is her speech?

And in what way is this not dismissive of the concerns of the women speaking about their experiences of abuse? To say "women somewhere else have it worse" is exactly the kind of dismissive defense I thought the left was against.

The point should be EVEN Michelle Obama experiences this discrimination and abuse. Even the wealthiest and most powerful woman has been hurt by the men around her.

I mean, to talk about basics, if there is no woman in the most privileged county in the world who can safely walk down the street without facing abuse, that should highlight exactly how bad things are for all women everywhere.
posted by threeturtles at 3:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [62 favorites]


I will see her eyes across the table with my eyes

Yes, this sounds like the kind of thing an eye-having human person would say
posted by theodolite at 3:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [72 favorites]


Vox interview with Republican strategist Steve Schmidt:
...the defense of Trump, the cowardice of so many Republican elected officials who won’t confront this — what it exposes is political cowardice on a massive level. It exposes a political class in the Republican Party that simply is unfit to lead the country.
...
You have a massive reckoning coming due that will play out over years on the serially putting party above country. We’ve reached the moment in time that George Washington warned about in his farewell address with the danger of factions. You have basically warring tribes that subordinate the national interest to their tribal interest.

There’s no higher value obviously for most — though not all — Republican elected officials than maintaining fidelity to Donald Trump. What’s extraordinary about that is that in America, we don’t take an oath to a strongman leader; we take it to the Constitution of the United States. And Donald Trump is obviously manifestly unfit in every conceivable way to occupy the office of the American head of state.
Schmidt also compares the Trump campaign to kamikaze attacks.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [23 favorites]


So my environs (Madison, WI ish) have been blessedly Trump sign-free. However, sometime yesterday a giant Trump sign went up on my commute route. I... really don't get this. Why are they putting it up now, of all godforsaken times?

Also, I had a nightmare the other night that he was chasing me down into a basement, wearing the same suit/tie combo from the second debate. The good news is that I was pretty sure I could kick his ass.
posted by altopower at 3:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


I wish the election could have been about those things, but it was probably never going to happen with these candidates.

One candidate. The other released a major poverty plan this week when she could have sat and watched Trump light himself on fire.
posted by chris24 at 3:32 PM on October 14, 2016 [69 favorites]


Ok, the book of charities thing was re the "mistaken" payment to Pam Bondi (they looked up her org in "the book" and thought it was a charity w a similar name). It seems weird that this didn't get picked up as a bigger issue. You can't just say "all payments to charities come from the foundation" that's not how it works; that's not how any of this works!!!
posted by melissasaurus at 3:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


NFL players rip Donald Trump for his take on concussions.

It's like he's running down a "make everyone hate me" checklist, y'know?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


I will see her eyes across the table with my eyes

Yes, this sounds like the kind of thing an eye-having human person would say


That's what he wants you to think! This is some kind of brilliant, 9-dimensional transatlantic eyes-having game, and you're not even equipped to keep up!
posted by rokusan at 3:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Early voting is up 22% in Virginia, 56% of that from NoVa alone

But even more signs of weakness in the PPP Florida poll, Clinton gets 85% of Democratic respondents; Murphy just 66%, putting Rubio up Rubio 44-38, leading Clinton's 46-42. Chuck Schumer's Senate slate is political malpractice. They're going to manage to lose the Senate in what should be a wave election.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


A bit more from the Steve Schmidt interview:
Candidates for federal office have duties and obligations toward the national interest that supersede tactical calculations. And the question is this — I suppose if you believe that Donald Trump has demonstrated fitness to sit atop the national command authority as commander in chief of the world’s most powerful military and its most sophisticated nuclear arsenal, then you should continue to endorse Donald Trump.

But for sure, when the election’s over, you’re locked into that position for all time. And the question is, if we haven’t hit the line where you can say, “I can’t support the nominee of the party” — then where is the line?
posted by kirkaracha at 3:35 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Why are they putting it up now, of all godforsaken times?

Pretty simply, now is the time you can get signs for free from your local committee. Before, you had to order and pay for them.
posted by Miko at 3:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


ActBlue contribution page for Patrick Murphy in Florida
posted by Hairy Lobster at 3:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


From the previous thread: Ryan Avoids Talking Trump, Paints Grim Picture Of 'Liberal Progressive' Rule
“What vision to Hillary Clinton and her party offer the people? They want an America that doesn’t stand out. They want an America that is ordinary. There is a gloom and grayness to things,” he continued. “In the America they want, the driving force is the state. Where we are ruled by our betters, by a cold and unfeeling democracy that replaces original thinking. A place where the government twists the law and the constitution itself to suit its purposes. It's a place where liberty is always under assault. Where passion, the very stuff of life is extinguished. That is the America Hillary Clinton wants."
Listen to this feckless, cowardly liar use the language of the Republican opposition to freakin' communism -- which the modern Democratic Party is as far from as the moon -- to cover for the fact that his party a) has a plan in a "pamphlet" that basically entails the same old tax-cutting supply-side hokum they've been selling for thirty-odd years, and 2) is enthusiastically embracing fascism anyway, which Ryan himself is too feckless and cowardly to oppose.

Feh.
posted by Gelatin at 3:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


I was a woman smoking cigarettes in public yesterday (yes, I know, smoking is the dumbest). At least four different dudes took it on themselves to instigate weird, bad interactions with me. This is more than normal. One guy told me all about how New York City is full of illegal immigrants, and I can't trust 'em even if they're white. One guy yelled at me that I was a fucking cunt without any previous or further discussion, and I'm very unclear on any reasoning behind that. It's getting worse and worse out there, and my smarter friends are telling me it might be even worse after the election.
posted by lauranesson at 3:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


@stevedeaceshow "GIVE US BARABBAS!" "GIVE US BARABBAS!"

But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas and to have Jesus executed.
- Matthew 27:20
posted by turaho at 3:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Mindy McGillivray, who in the Palm Beach Post accused Trump of groping her, says she is leaving the country:
“We feel the backlash of the Trump supporters. It scares us. It intimidates us. We are in fear of our lives,’’ she said in an interview Friday with The Palm Beach Post.

McGillivray, 36, has been staying in a hotel in the three days since she told her story to The Palm Beach Post, one of at least four women across the United States who have accused Trump of inappropriately touching them. Trump has denied the accusations, calling them total fabrications.

But she said got a scare Thursday night when she returned to the Palm Springs house she shares with her daughter and stepdad to pick up clothes.

“I look out the window and there are cars just driving around the house and looking, slowing down right at the house,’’ she said.

“I don’t live in a gated community. This is dangerous. There could be people out there who want to hurt us.’’

She said the publicity has caused friction with her stepfather. It has also driven a wedge into the family of a photographer who was with McGillivray the night of the alleged incident.

The photographer, Ken Davidoff, said he remembers McGillivray pulling him aside moments after the encounter to complain about the alleged groping, which he did not witness. McGillivray never reported the incident to authorities.

Davidoff’s brother, Daryl, said he thinks McGillivray is lying. He is angry at his brother because the publicity is hurting the family’s photography studio, whose clients include Trump supporters.

Ken Davidoff said he received a text from his brother, Daryl, who wrote that he was contacted by a Trump attorney and “I agreed to make a statement, hope they put both of you away.’’

Despite the fall out, McGillivray said she has no regrets about going public with her story, which she did after she watched Trump say in a nationally televised debate that he has never groped women.
And we ask why women didn't come forward sooner?
posted by zachlipton at 3:43 PM on October 14, 2016 [170 favorites]


Google News introduced fact check links on news pages yesterday.
"Today, we’re adding another new tag, “Fact check,” to help readers find fact checking in large news stories. You’ll see the tagged articles in the expanded story box on news.google.com and in the Google News & Weather iOS and Android apps, starting with the U.S. and the U.K.

(screenshot)

Google News determines whether an article might contain fact checks in part by looking for the schema.org ClaimReview markup. We also look for sites that follow the commonly accepted criteria for fact checks. Publishers who create fact-checks and would like to see it appear with the “Fact check” tag should use that markup in fact-check articles. For more information, head on over to our help center.

We’re excited to see the growth of the Fact Check community and to shine a light on its efforts to divine fact from fiction, wisdom from spin."
More at the link.
posted by cashman at 3:45 PM on October 14, 2016 [36 favorites]


I wish the election could have been about those things, but it was probably never going to happen with these candidates.

Not these candidates, just the one candidate.


No. These candidates.

Do you think any Republican put up against Clinton would not have gone into dirty social-issue attacks or used socially divisive approaches? Clinton Derangement Syndrome is a thing, and the Republicans cannot resist. She was always going to bring out the worst in whoever went up against her... we just didn't expect it to be, like, this-worst.

And even for her part, and while I agree she's 100x more literate and legitimate on other issues, Clinton wouldn't want the focus too much on international affairs or her work at State this year, for obvious reasons (imagine if a competent campaign had attacked her on her actual weak points), so she'd always want to emphasize areas in which she polls better, which are, again, mainly social areas.

So even if we didn't have full-on dumpster fire Trump this time, this was going to happen this year to some degree, because both R-offense and D-defense is heavy, heavy on the social sides of the playbook.

We just got a perfect storm of ultra-crazy this time around.
posted by rokusan at 3:45 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


What a horrible story. That trashy-ass brother of Ken's has probably been waiting years for a chance to put his brother in his place, you can just tell.
posted by Countess Elena at 3:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


Do you think any Republican put up against Clinton would not have gone into dirty social-issue attacks or used socially divisive approaches? Clinton Derangement Syndrome is a thing, and the Republicans cannot resist. She was always going to bring out the worst in whoever went up against her... we just didn't expect it to be, like, this-worst.

So, the one candidate along with the entire Republican party then?
posted by Zalzidrax at 3:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Obama subtweeting Trump.

@POTUS: Clearly, we still have more to do to prevent sexual assault and the thinking that leads to it. That starts with us: http://ItsOnUs.org
posted by chris24 at 3:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


Chuck Schumer's Senate slate is political malpractice.
Rubio is losing women and African Americans but he has all the Hispanics. I don't think a Democrat without a strong performance with that bloc can win FL. The thinking was probably that a Republican-lite candidate might be able to make inroads, but no. Murphy is going to do a debate on Univision, but it was like pulling teeth to get him to do it and Little Marco has been tweaking him about it.
posted by xyzzy at 3:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


It continues. New Jersey Muslim Center Defaced With ‘Donald Trump,’ Racist Graffiti:
Police say they’ve arrested a 20-year-old man for spray-painting anti-Muslim messages and the words "Donald Trump" on a Muslim community center in Bayonne, New Jersey, early Friday morning.
The article goes on to explain that the community is trying to build a new mosque, but has been met with opposition from neighbors who have placed "Stop the Mosque" and "Save Bayonne" signs in their windows, partly because of traffic and parking concerns, but also out of Islamophobia.

I assume Christie has nothing to say about this.
posted by zachlipton at 3:53 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


partly because of traffic and parking concerns, but also out of Islamophobia.

I assume Christie has nothing to say about this.


I imagine Chritie would be in favor of both the Islamophobia and also the additional traffic problems.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


I assume Christie has nothing to say about this.

Christie's got enough traffic problems as it is.
posted by Mooski at 3:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Jinx. You owe me a coke.
posted by Mooski at 3:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


I wonder if Trump claims to see Muslims dancing and cheering in New Jersey on Nov 10.
posted by klarck at 3:57 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Wait, you guys are missing the real question: Why would Trump be travelling with a procurer of boys for sex?
posted by Sys Rq at 3:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [21 favorites]


I wonder if Trump claims to see Muslims dancing and cheering in New Jersey on Nov 10.

He'd probably be correct though. Stopped clock, etc., etc.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]



What I mean is— I know so many funny, brilliant, sly, kind, tender women. But for many of us, a lot of these qualities only become really evident when we are feeling safe.

When I am around men who make me feel unsafe, my behavior changes. They don’t get to see elements of who I am, because they can’t be trusted with that version of my self. I can’t count on them to treat her well. It isn’t worth the risk.


OMG, THIS. My husband is always going on about how funny I am, but why am I never that funny except when we're alone?

When I'm not around safe people, I am not me. I am exactly what I've been called my whole life: a bitch. Because I'd rather be a bitch than let them hurt me.
posted by threeturtles at 3:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [90 favorites]


Cavuto was interviewing Ben Stein. Cavuto was saying lots of republicans have given up and moved on to 2020. Stein said Trump is "not right in the head" and called him a wacko, and stressed how big of a mistake it was that republicans chose him.

BEN STEIN has given up on Trump????
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [22 favorites]


Early voting is up 22% in Virginia, 56% of that from NoVa alone

NoVa is heavily D DC suburbs, right?
posted by Talez at 4:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Barack can't run for President again, but can we let Michelle be First Lady for eight more years anyway?
posted by mbrubeck at 4:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Early voting is up 22% in Virginia, 56% of that from NoVa alone

All three Wallflowers have voted by mail. In addition, I appear to have convinced the postal clerk to vote for Clinton instead of sitting this one out, and Mrs. Wallflower may have persuaded a female former-Trumper to stay home on Election Day. You're welcome, America!
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [24 favorites]


It's never been a melting pot - It's always been more like a risotto.

--Mark Twain [fake]
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 4:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Eichenwald raises a good point: "Whether Trump's witness proves to be a nut or not, Trump just confessed he was on that plane beside that woman by putting the man forward."

He now either has to acknowledge he was there and sat next to Jessica Leeds, or call the witness his own campaign apparently lined up a liar.
posted by zachlipton at 4:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [92 favorites]


Yes, we're a bunch of commie mutant tratitors here, Talez.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


In an excellent use of his time, Trump will be campaigning in New Jersey tomorrow to try to woo Indian Americans.
The event is also unusual because the Indian American community overwhelmingly leans Democratic, with 70 percent planning to vote for Hillary Clinton compared with 7 percent for Trump, according to the most recent polls.
...
The Democratic Party’s tradition of “big tent” politics and its embrace of cultural diversity appeals to many recent immigrants. Shekar Narasimhan, of Fairfax, Va., said he thinks that Indians are actually being driven further into the Democratic fold by Trump’s antagonism toward immigrants. “It is as if a GPS is telling us, ‘Go left, young man!’ ” Narasimhan said.
At least it'll be a short trip back to Trump Tower for beddy-bye time.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Michelle for Shadow FLOTUS and Biden for Shadow VP
posted by drezdn at 4:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Barack can't run for President again, but can we let Michelle be First Lady for eight more years anyway?

She's done her duty - more than done it. She deserves a rest, and if we deserve it we'll get someone almost as good sooner than later.
posted by Mooski at 4:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


NoVa is heavily D DC suburbs, right?

Right. And even the republicans here don't care much for Trump, NoVa went Rubio in the primary.
posted by peeedro at 4:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


@neiltyson: If a Space Alien landed in the USA & requested: "Take me to your leader", I wonder how Pres Trump would react vs Pres Clinton

@jk_rowling: Afraid we need to know whether the alien has breasts before we can answer.
posted by chris24 at 4:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [122 favorites]


NoVa is heavily D DC suburbs, right?
Yup. Northern Virginia is prime Democratic territory. There are also a lot of Democrats in Richmond and Hampton Roads, but Northern Virginia is the region that is tipping Virginia blue at the moment. High turnout there is a good sign for Hillary, although honestly, I don't think that Virginia is really in contention at this point.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:08 PM on October 14, 2016


BEN STEIN has given up on Trump????

Stein's been saying bad things about Trump since around Super Tuesday at least.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:10 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Barack can't run for President again, but can we let Michelle be First Lady for eight more years anyway?

Oh, don't say that. 538 will write a story saying there's an 0.8% possibility this could happen if Michelle divorces Barak, Hillary divorces Bill, Michelle and Hillary get married and Hillary wins a second term. Constitutional and legal, but even I'm not sure I'm ready for that fic universe

Although you could power the entire US energy grid and send Wisconsin to Mars from the power of exploding heads, so perhaps we should explore this some more...
posted by Devonian at 4:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [25 favorites]


NoVa is heavily D DC suburbs, right?

D and rational R (Defense people, etc.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


BEN STEIN has given up on Trump?

I remember him ranting about how bad a choice Sarah Palin was, and how she knew basically nothing about anything, during the 2008 election.

So he's consistent, at least. Definitely doesn't like idiots.
posted by rokusan at 4:16 PM on October 14, 2016


One of Putin's surrogates has announced that not voting for Trump will result in nuclear war with Russia.

[real]
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Did everyone spot the Daily Kos story on the Evil Orange Cantaloupe's recent decision to blame ye olde global Jewish conspiracy for his woes? (I apologize if linked before.) The story led me to this excellent website, which I and Michelly recommend to all my fellow Jewish travelers.
posted by bearwife at 4:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


She's done her duty - more than done it. She deserves a rest, and if we deserve it we'll get someone almost as good sooner than later.

Will you? In the entire history of the United States I can think of only two FLOTUSes (FLOTI?) that are even in the same league as Michelle Obama. One was in the White House for just over 12 years and the other is running for President right now.
posted by Francis at 4:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


D and rational R (Defense people, etc.)

Like that Michael Flynn guy?
posted by indubitable at 4:19 PM on October 14, 2016


Uh, Ben Stein is crazy in his own special fashion, but I venture he can smell anti-Semitism a mile away.
posted by stolyarova at 4:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


Early voting appears to be up in NC as well, with Republican ballots lagging significantly. To the extent we can extrapolate election day turnout from early returns, which I don't know, someone might have the answer, it looks good for Democrats.

Republican enthusiasm gap, plus massive Dem ground game advantage, could lead to Democrats overperforming the polling.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


OK, managed to join the Mefites United phonebanking group. Trick is to follow that exact link. You can search for groups on the site, but there's no link to join (that I could find.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


One of Putin's surrogates has announced that not voting for Trump will result in nuclear war with Russia.

[real]


Zhirinovsky is constantly saying the most wackadoodle shit. He should be tagged with [real, but alternate reality]
posted by dis_integration at 4:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


NFL players rip Donald Trump for his take on concussions.

Donald Trump Is Tearing the NFL Apart (written before 2nd debate)
posted by gwint at 4:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Will you? In the entire history of the United States I can think of only two FLOTUSes (FLOTI?) that are even in the same league as Michelle Obama.

I'm an atheist, so this sounds odd coming off my fingertips, even to me, but I believe it nonetheless: when we need them, heroines and heroes appear.
posted by Mooski at 4:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


So, in order to prevent nuclear war, he wants us to elect the guy that is specifically for nuclear war?

That seems sort of self-defeating.
posted by Archelaus at 4:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


@SopanDeb: "Trump calls for a "boycott" of a single issue of People Magazine....presuming the one the most recent piece appears in?"

Trump again off on a long tangent defending himself.
posted by chris24 at 4:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I am coming forward as a witness to refute that Trump groped that woman in first class all those years ago.
For you see, in 1980 I was a 747.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 4:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [23 favorites]


NB: my husband is a cynical, cynical man so he looked into the Meridian Star and tells me that they have very deep pockets and are owned by "Retirement Systems of Alabama." They have been a daily since 1898 and came out in support of Obama. So my enthusiasm is dampened a bit, though still, good for them.
posted by thebrokedown at 4:32 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


The Democratic Party’s tradition of “big tent” politics and its embrace of cultural diversity appeals to many recent immigrants. Shekar Narasimhan, of Fairfax, Va., said he thinks that Indians are actually being driven further into the Democratic fold by Trump’s antagonism toward immigrants. “It is as if a GPS is telling us, ‘Go left, young man!’ ” Narasimhan said.

Shekar Narasimhan is the father of S.R. Sidarth, who is famous for being called "macaca" by a US senator. The GPS might be telling them to "go left," but the GOP is telling them to "go away!"
posted by peeedro at 4:37 PM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


two FLOTUSes (FLOTI?)

FLsOTUS. Or, let's just go ahead and say SPOTUS going forward. I don't think it's strictly necessary to indicate what gender the President's spouse has.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


I am getting tired of this "Hillary said mean things about women her husband slept with, therefore she is not a feminist" argument. Lincoln's well-documented racism didn't prevent him from endorsing and lobbying for the Emancipation Proclamation. You can be a feminist and still be mean to individual women. Ask me how I know.
posted by xyzzy at 4:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [73 favorites]


Oh boy, free range Trump coming.

@SopanDeb: Trump is saying his teleprompters haven't worked for last 20 minutes. Now he's physically having them removed from the stage.
posted by chris24 at 4:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


Forgot to write speech and/or can't read. Dollars to donuts.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]




I am coming forward as a witness to refute that Trump groped that woman in first class all those years ago.
For you see, in 1980 I was a 747.


Can confirm. Have an excellent memory.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Trump in NC: "By the way these teleprompter haven't been working for the last 20 minutes. And I actually like my speech better without teleprompters. And this way what I like about it, wait a minute. [Trump walks over to the teleprompter, messes with it, breaks it with an audible pop]... Hey get this thing out of here!...It's sort of cooler without it, don't you think?" Then he attacks Hillary's teleprompters: "she always just reads off the teleprompter, and it's short, and then she goes home and goes to sleep."
posted by zachlipton at 4:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


TRUMP IS GOING UP AGAINST MEDICARE PART D AND NEGOTIATING DRUG PRICES.

Fox tomorrow is going to have Donald Trump (D) by the end of this night.
posted by Talez at 4:43 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


> God uses imperfect men to achieve his aims. Example: King David. Ergo, you can still vote your conscience and vote for Trump. Keep your eyes on the Supreme Court, that is all that matters.

Seems like your stronger gods would also be able to use imperfect women for good, yet I never hear anybody say so.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 4:43 PM on October 14, 2016 [25 favorites]


Can't wait to see the battle of the teleprompter video.

Just made me realize, now that I'm sure Trump will lose, and I'm feeling relaxed, what the hell am I gonna do without this trainwreck to rubber neck at. What did I do before? I can't even remember life before Trump came floating down that escalator like a specter.
posted by dis_integration at 4:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


More on teleprompters: "So the teleprompter a bummer. It doesn't work. That means the company doing the teleprompter is in the back. That means they didn't do a good job so I won't pay them. I won't pay them. And tomorrow I'll have a story in the newspaper 'Donald Trump did not pay a contractor who put up the teleprompter.' Well why should I? They don't work. And they'll make me like a bad guy. I pay contractors on time. I'm so good....You have a bad contractor, don't pay or cut the price. You have a good contractor, get that money out fast."
posted by zachlipton at 4:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Here's a link to the live Trump speech, if you have the stomach.
posted by melissasaurus at 4:44 PM on October 14, 2016


Oh this is brilliant. It's not even unhinged rambling. It's like your drunk racist uncle at Thanksgiving.
posted by Talez at 4:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


I mean, if he were a good speaker, the teleprompter move could be part of a masterwork of ovation. Obama, given the right topic and need, could rock it and we'd be rubbing our hands together in a whole 'nother type of gleeful anticipation.

The thing is, like it or not, what Obama can accomplish to us, Trump can accomplish just as well with his base.

Not really sure what I'm getting at here, just navel gazing I suppose.
posted by RolandOfEld at 4:46 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


@sallykohn: "With every ugly and violent insult that comes out of his mouth, Trump loses a vote, and our country gains a feminist.” — @CecileRichards !!
posted by chris24 at 4:47 PM on October 14, 2016 [30 favorites]


Fox tomorrow is going to have Donald Trump (D) by the end of this night.

Explainer: Fox has a habit of labeling misbehaving Republicans with a (D) in the chyron.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:47 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


I mean, if he were a good speaker, the teleprompter move could be part of a masterwork of ovation. Obama, given the right topic and need, could rock it and we'd be rubbing our hands together in a whole 'nother type of gleeful anticipation.

Did you see "C'mon man!" Obama?
posted by Talez at 4:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


"You have a good contractor, get that money out fast."

From your foundation, of course.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 4:49 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


SECRETARY OF KEEPING BUSINESS IN THE UNITED STATES.

But it gets even better... HE'S GOING TO BE HIS OWN SECRETARY!

Holy shit this is crazy.
posted by Talez at 4:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


Anyone else hopiing that this is an extinction burst?
posted by asockpuppet at 4:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [27 favorites]


Now the speakers broke. HA!
posted by melissasaurus at 4:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Does he have a guitar he can light on fire?
posted by Artw at 4:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


Now the speakers broke. HA!

Maybe the contractor who set up the speakers and the teleprompter noped out of there when he realized he wasn't getting paid.
posted by dis_integration at 4:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [40 favorites]


Trump talking about all the people he's not going to pay.
posted by Talez at 4:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Now he's angry because people in one part of the hall can't hear. Upset about the speakers. "Now we don't have to pay for this, and now we don't have to pay for that. Man. Who the hell runs this place? They say the speakers don't work and I was having so much fun without these damn teleprompters.... See there, I wouldn't deduct full but I would take 30% off the price for the cut."

Update: "Oh they just got it working. We'll give them 20% off. Good. Thank you fellows that's great."
posted by zachlipton at 4:53 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Good luck on getting your gear back from a Trump gig.
posted by Artw at 4:53 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


@JYSexton Trump says Ford moving a plant to Mexico, someone yells Lock them up.

Who? The Ford executives? The people of Mexico? Anybody doing anything the crowd does not like?

@aliVitali Trump denying sex assault allegations says "you'd be very impressed, actually, with my life in so many regards, including that regard."

Does he mean we would be so impressed with his sex life or the quantity and quality of his sexual assaults?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:54 PM on October 14, 2016 [25 favorites]


Wondering how many in his audience are contractors...
posted by Sublimity at 4:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Is it that he cheats a lot so he couldn't possibly be a rapist? Because the two couldn't possibly overlap?
posted by Artw at 4:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]





Is this the one in Charlotte?
posted by Jalliah at 4:55 PM on October 14, 2016


Sopan Deb
"If you want the political experience of watching "Jessica" by the Allman Brothers live, watch a Trump speech off prompter."
posted by colt45 at 4:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Finally getting a chance to watch Michelle Obama's speech from yesterday and am so blown away. Just wow. That's got to be one of the best speeches that I've ever heard.
posted by octothorpe at 4:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


I'm not watching--did he seriously break the teleprompter? Like, purposeful destruction of property, all being recorded?? While bragging about not paying for it??

Republicans better not say a fucking word about looters ever again omg.
posted by mixedmetaphors at 4:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


To save time, he should just talk about the people he is going to pay. So, basically, companies owned by or affiliated with his immediate family.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Yep, Charlotte. Send cookies to Cookiebastard.
posted by holgate at 4:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]



Cookiebastard is there if it is.

o.O
posted by Jalliah at 4:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


those who take pleasure in watching Trump destroy the Republican Party are missing the bigger picture. He’s trying to destroy the country, as well.

No, no, we get it, honestly. I'm not even sure if he loses and destroys the GOP all this shit will have been worth it even, what with the normalization of so much awfulness, but a consolation prize is still a prize.
posted by Artw at 4:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Maybe the contractor who set up the speakers and the teleprompter noped out of there when he realized he wasn't getting paid.

I wish the speaker guy would put on "You Can't Always Get What You Want" during Trump's speech and just leave.

I'll kick in $100 to his GoFundMe for new speakers.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 4:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


I keep hearing the crowd as "rabble rabble rabble"...

Btw is he talking about inner cities right now? Think I've got the right feed on the other machibe finally. Watched Greensboro feed for a bit and it was bad enough.
posted by RolandOfEld at 4:59 PM on October 14, 2016


"How many Hispanic Americans do we have here? One? (thinking it's really one, then some applause) Oh we have a lot."
posted by chris24 at 4:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Not listening to his babble in Charlotte but are there not a lot of people in that area in dire straights from hurricane/flooding? Surely there was empathy expressed on the part of Trump and his staff for their distress?
posted by robbyrobs at 5:00 PM on October 14, 2016


I'm not watching--did he seriously break the teleprompter? Like, purposeful destruction of property, all being recorded?? While bragging about not paying for it??

On review don't think he really broke it. He took the top screen part off and put it down, which made a thunking noise on the mic. Then he joked like he was going to knock the other one over. gif. video.

This better not be another DNC gavel; I can only obsess over a few such objects at a time.
posted by zachlipton at 5:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


...and I think he just said "How many Hispanics do we have here today?" ...silence... "One! Ok we got one that's ok." [Real]
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Looks Like Trump is Now Peddling Russian Propaganda | The Closer with Keith Olbermann | GQ

Payattention to the article "the." He was parroting Russian propaganda, but using the original article.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:00 PM on October 14, 2016


There is no requirement that the first lady be the President's spouse. This precedent was established by Harriet Lane during the Buchanan Presidency.
posted by humanfont at 5:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


My Amtrak was late. Has he said anything about fixing that?
posted by thelonius at 5:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


I'm don't think he really broke it. He took the top screen part off and put it down. Then he joked like he was going to knock the other one over.

Okay, thanks, that's a little more dignified than I was picturing. A little.
posted by mixedmetaphors at 5:03 PM on October 14, 2016


melissasaurus: "Here's a link to the live Trump speech, if you have the stomach."

Big nope on that one. My stomach is very happy after devouring an order of thai spicy noodles washed down with an Ithaca flower power ale and I have no desire to foul it by having to listen to that vulgar talking yam.
posted by octothorpe at 5:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Trump about the people behind him: "I love those signs 'Women for Trump.' Because I actually think I'm doing well with women."
posted by zachlipton at 5:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


"I love the women for Trump signs. Cuz I actually think I'm doing well with women."
posted by chris24 at 5:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


In the entire history of the United States I can think of only two FLOTUSes (FLOTI?) that are even in the same league as Michelle Obama. One was in the White House for just over 12 years and the other is running for President right now.

Abigail Adams
Dolley Madison
Edith Wilson

C'mon, fight me.
posted by Preserver at 5:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [25 favorites]


There is no requirement that the first lady be the President's spouse. This precedent was established by Harriet Lane during the Buchanan Presidency.
He surrounded himself with the wives of his friends and political advisers and contented himself with the company of his ward and niece, Harriet Lane. "Nunc," as Harriet referred to him..
Well, now the Feast of Crows readers know whom to blame.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Just made me realize, now that I'm sure Trump will lose, and I'm feeling relaxed, what the hell am I gonna do without this trainwreck to rubber neck at. What did I do before? I can't even remember life before Trump came floating down that escalator like a specter.

If you're like me, you feel like a sucker for falling for the slideshow.

Now let's find some ways to keep positive pressure on Clinton to do some good for the nation and the world.
posted by rokusan at 5:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Someone call Guinness Book of Records because I'm 90% sure Trump just beat the record for "World's Biggest Circlejerk".
posted by Talez at 5:10 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


I wish the speaker guy would put on "You Can't Always Get What You Want" during Trump's speech and just leave.

And for the record, the Stones are about to sue the fuck out of Trump because he won't stop playing their songs at rallies even after they C&D'ed him. (Mirror.co.uk link)
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:10 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Abigail Adams
Dolley Madison
Edith Wilson

C'mon, fight me.


You seriously left off Eleanor Roosevelt? Seriously? I will fight you.
posted by blue suede stockings at 5:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [23 favorites]


"Obama says global warming is our biggest threat. Our biggest threat is nuclear. It's nuclear warming."
posted by chris24 at 5:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


"Bernie said she had poor judgment. I said thank you Bernie, I'm going to be using that for about 6 months."
posted by chris24 at 5:12 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


"They are rigging the election. These are very dishonest folks."
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:12 PM on October 14, 2016


Ye gods, apparently Trump has even played "Brown Sugar" at rallies [real], which . . . well, not at all surprising, really.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


"Nuclear Warming" [real, Charlotte, sans prompter]
posted by tilde at 5:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


I, for one, will not relax until I've heard his concession, in whatever angry, deluded, vengeful form it takes.

Even then I'll brace for the shitstorm to come, but at this point, bring on the fresh hell already.
posted by clever sheep at 5:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


You seriously left off Eleanor Roosevelt? Seriously? I will fight you.

She was the "one in the White House for just over 12 years."
posted by Preserver at 5:15 PM on October 14, 2016 [22 favorites]



She was the "one in the White House for just over 12 years."


Ah, so you were adding your three to the previous commentator's two. I thought you left Eleanor off your own short list and I'm sorry but I just saw red. Sisters gotta stick up for each other right now.
posted by blue suede stockings at 5:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Signage update: I was in a part of town I don't visit often today and there was a stretch of 3' x 5' campaign signs, mostly for local elections, but there was a Trump "Make America Great Again" sign thrown in there too.

Someone had crossed out "great" and spray-painted "racist."

I cheered.
posted by mudpuppie at 5:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [42 favorites]


nuclear warming

No, no, you're getting it all wrong -- Trump's secret plan to fix the environment is to counterbalance global warming with just the right amount of nuclear winter [fake, but also a Secret Plan so potentially true?]
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


@reidepstein
I don't know that I've ever seen a candidate trash his own advance team the way Trump is doing in Charlotte tonight.

Does he even have an advance team at this point?
posted by melissasaurus at 5:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


On my way back from the beach last weekend, I saw similar Trump signs on the side of Delaware Rt 1.

Someone had spray-painted "PUSSY" over top of one of them.

I couldn't argue.
posted by delfin at 5:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Ah, so you were adding your three to the previous commentator's two. I thought you left Eleanor off your own short list and I'm sorry but I just saw red. Sisters gotta stick up for each other right now.

Yes, I was adding them to the original three (Eleanor, Hillary, Michelle).

Might add Lou Henry Hoover, too.
posted by Preserver at 5:21 PM on October 14, 2016


MeFites United is currently at the top of the leaderboard with 53 calls!

I'll share my personal experience in case it might encourage anyone to join us. Between my team calls and the ones I made personally before the team was formed, I've made 38 calls. My scripts basically have me asking two questions: 1) Are you voting for Hillary, and 2) if so, would you be interested in volunteering.

Of my 38 calls, only three people have answered the phone. One said he wasn't voting for anyone, and two said they're voting for Hillary. No one wanted to volunteer. Everyone was very nice. The call tool gives you their name and age and so far almost all of my calls have been to older people. You get to choose what state you want to call and the scripts are a little bit different so I actually looked at a few to choose the one I felt most comfortable with. I think they only have you calling people who have voted Democrat in the past, so the chances of getting someone yelling at you are low.

I wanted to go to the phone banking event at my local Dem HQ last night but my introversion won, as usual. Making calls from home was hard enough. But, after the first 10 or so it got a lot easier and I'm totally comfortable with it now. It's a great antidote to the impotent fury I was generating from sitting here reading these monster campaign threads.

If you're pissed off, come on over and make some calls. It's very therapeutic!
posted by HotToddy at 5:21 PM on October 14, 2016 [73 favorites]


There are people that seem to think the press interviewing someone making an accusation is like being in a crowd where someone says "Hey! This guy says he saw somethin'! Lets hear him out!"
I have worked in print journalism for nearly 20 years. Even at the level that I am at, which is hardly working for the NY Times, no one would ever let so much as a restaurant review go to press without some vetting.
No one is putting someone on the air without examining their claim. The reporters may make it seem like they are hearing the story for the first time to add a human angle to things, but believe me, those stories are examined from a number of angles before they are even approved to be worked on in the first place.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 5:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


NBC News: CIA Prepping for Possible Cyber Strike Against Russia

...unprecedented cyber assault...
...cyber covert action...
..."clandestine" cyber operation...
...begun opening cyber doors...
...analyzing Russian cyber capabilities...
...respond to Russia via cyber means...
...our own cyber force...
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 5:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


This calls for....VR Troopers!
posted by Senor Cardgage at 5:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Yeah they were sitting around after burgers and just figured, "hey waitaminit - we got all this gear. Let's get 'em!" In 2016
posted by petebest at 5:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I was in a part of town I don't visit often today...

Just wanted to clarify that I was referring the the McMansion part of town, not, like, "the other side of the tracks" part of town. I realized that could have come off as classist. And it was, but not in the way you'd normally expect. That is all.

posted by mudpuppie at 5:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


no one would ever let so much as a restaurant review go to press without some vetting.

The NY Post (Murdoch-owned, probably the lone Trump-endorsing paper) apparently will.
posted by holgate at 5:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I have one long meeting and there's 500 comments in a new thread! Holy crap. I'm so glad it's Friday. I could really use a day or two of slow news.
posted by Sophie1 at 5:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


How does one protest a cyber war? I'm serious. We've got a long history of knowing what to chant and what to put on signs to fight against a hot war. What the heck do you do to protest a cyber one? "Hey hey. Ho ho. BGP spoofing attacks have got to go" doesn't really roll off the tongue.
posted by zachlipton at 5:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


NBC News: CIA Prepping for Possible Cyber Strike Against Russia

Geez, CIA. What about the element of surprise?
posted by Talez at 5:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Anyone else hoping that this is an extinction burst?

Of the GOP since 2008, yes.
posted by fleacircus at 5:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


So, okay, I went over to Twitter to read that thread with the awesome J.K. Rowling snap. And while I was there I discovered...

....Someone is actually trying to spin the whole "Pussygate" thing into a slacktivism thing, by trying to get Trump to "tweet about boobs instead, because it is Breast Cancer Awareness Month."

And...Okay, you know in that Star Trek movie where Spock's brother was going around mind-melding with people to find out what their deepest trauma was so he coulld get them to unburden themselves and heal or something? Imagine instead he was reaching in to find out what would piss someone off most.

Breast cancer slacktivism is what does that for me, and combining that with Trump is making me want to PUNCH MY COMPUTER THROUGH A WALL
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [37 favorites]


Re the impending shit storm over Trump losing, I think the case historically is that cult of personalities completely dissipate once the personality is neutralized.

trump losing is big time neutralizing so no I think it will be over for him.
posted by angrybear at 5:31 PM on October 14, 2016


NBC News: CIA Prepping for Possible Cyber Strike Against Russia

I think they just need a crack team of commandos to live on Russian social media and news sites making pro-USA comments and creating anti-Putin dank memes. That seems to have been an effective tactic for the Russians to use on European and US sites.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:32 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


trump losing is big time neutralizing so no I think it will be over for him.

You know who else lost big time once?
posted by Mooski at 5:32 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


> What about the element of surprise?

The CIA will be coming in through ports A and B. We've got them surrounded.
posted by vbfg at 5:32 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


> "trump losing is big time neutralizing so no I think it will be over for him."

Only if his cult acknowledges it as a loss.
posted by kyrademon at 5:32 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


I've done phone banking too and while it's not my most favorite way to spend a few hours, it's not that bad. 95% of people won't pick up, and you don't leave messages so as soon as it goes to voicemail you hang up and move on. The lists are all likely Democratic voters and depending on what list you're working off of you'll just be checking for support and reminding them about downballot races, recruiting volunteers, or doing GOTV for places with early voting. Every now and then you'll get someone on there who shouldn't be, but the point of the call isn't to convert them, it's to thank them for their time, get the hell off the phone with them and mark them on your list as a Trump voter so that no other volunteers will waste their time tying to contact that person again.

I've both phoned and door-knocked (canvassing works the same way as calling - you aren't going to every door, just specific ones identified on a list of likely or leaning Clinton voters) and responses have ranged from mildly annoyed to elated high fiving and offers of snacks.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:32 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


Protip: when you're doing phonebanking, whether in-person or online, don't obsess over the script. They want two or three questions answered, so figure out how you can naturally get to those question without sounding like a robot. I tend to ignore half the script.

After a while you'll be perusing MeFi while the phone rings.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:32 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Hey, all "cyber strike" means is that we're sending Billy Idol to Moscow or something.
posted by delfin at 5:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Good lord... I just called out a Clinton supporter on Twitter for sexism (they called a CNN reporter a "skank," I said I'm a HRC supporter), and I get called a troll and a snake.

Fuck misogyny.
posted by krinklyfig at 5:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [29 favorites]


Clinton Derangement Syndrome is a thing, and the Republicans cannot resist. She was always going to bring out the worst in whoever went up against her... we just didn't expect it to be, like, this-worst.

So just by showing up, she forced the Republican party to throw a tempetantrum of such epic proportions that they put forth Donald Trump as a candidate?

I don't buy that. And Trump's problematic behavior has nothing to do Clinton Derangement Syndrome. That's shit he's been getting away with for years.

Yeah, it sucks that his shitty behavior has taken center stage. It sucks that we get to hear people normalize that behavior (although hearing all the push back almost makes up for that). But that's all on him and the party that out him forth.

The reasonable candidate, who does talk about other issues*, didn't cause this clusterfuck. Implying otherwise seems to be getting into false equivalency territory.

*His problematic behavior, all aspects of it, is an issue, he's runninghe presidency. His actions and behavior in office (god forbid) could have dire implications beyond just the standard policy issues that people can legitimately disagree on. Plus, you know, not wanting to subject everyone to the racist mysonginist bile he regularly emits for four years seems reasonable to me.
posted by ghost phoneme at 5:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


I think the case historically is that cult of personalities completely dissipate once the personality is neutralized.

I remember someone posting a picture on reddit of Mitt Romney buying Cheerios in a CVS after he lost. I long for those benign silly days. The fact that Mitt Romney's loss now reads to me as benign and silly is sort of alarming too. What is it when you've faced so much bullshit that previous bullshit seems almost comical and indulgent? UGH. Michael Moore's Farenheit 911 is like Julie Andrews twirling around a nunnery in Salzburg now.
posted by asockpuppet at 5:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


> The article goes on to explain that the community is trying to build a new mosque, but has been met with opposition from neighbors who have placed "Stop the Mosque" and "Save Bayonne" signs in their windows,

As god is my witness, when I first read this I thought it said "Save Beyoncé," and I didn't even blink—this election is so crazy I just figured "Well, Beyoncé must have said something weird." Can't wait for all this to be over...
posted by languagehat at 5:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


...unprecedented cyber assault...
...cyber covert action...
..."clandestine" cyber operation...
...begun opening cyber doors...
...analyzing Russian cyber capabilities...
...respond to Russia via cyber means...
...our own cyber force...


It's hilarious to me how a decade or more after the public has abandoned the cheesy, corny cyber prefix, the US Military has doubled-down on it.

Now, I guess military-types have never really intersected with "cool", much, but like... the United States Cyber Command is an actual thing. It's not even a nickname, that's the real name.

Look. At. That. Official. Emblem.
posted by rokusan at 5:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


Woah. Are you like psychic pbo?

Donald Trump Assails His Accusers as Liars, and Unattractive

Even as two new women came forward on Friday to say that he had groped them, Mr. Trump dismissed the mounting charges against him as “total fiction” and “lies, lies, lies.” He assailed the motives of the women speaking out against him, and seemed to mock two of them as insufficiently attractive to draw his interest.

“Believe me, she would not be my first choice,” Mr. Trump said of Jessica Leeds, who said Mr. Trump groped her on an airplane in the 1980s. He referred to Ms. Leeds, now 74, as “that horrible woman.”


Referred to her as "that woman" in an effusive denial, you say?
posted by petebest at 5:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


The Trump cult is based on Winning. It can't sustain if its losing.

Actually I think this is the corner the GoP has painted itself into. So the the key is to keep beating them.

He migh get a stupid Sarah plain following but what does that amount to.
posted by angrybear at 5:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


"He scolded me about my penmanship on my phone number because it was hard for me to read"

This was a classic "neg" in the PUA underbelly around then. No way she made that up.
posted by lastobelus at 5:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


So just by showing up, she forced the Republican party to throw a tempetantrum...

I did not say that, and I am in no way "blaming" this on Clinton.

I'm saying that given how the Republicans have reacted to and handled both of the Clintons for the last couple of decades, it was very predicable that we'd have a dirty campaign heavy on social wedge issues here, regardless of who they nominated. The Clintons, for whatever reason, bring out irrational hatred from the right.

That Trump ended up carrying the banner just dialed everything up to 11. It was always going to happen to some degree.
posted by rokusan at 5:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Trump to address nation in ‘more personal way’

Jesus, is he going to start lobbing insults at the rest of us too?
posted by mudpuppie at 5:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [38 favorites]


Retired Admiral James Stavridis told NBC News that the U.S. should attack Russia's ability to censor its internal internet traffic and expose the financial dealings of Putin and his associates.
THAT's how we'll finally see all of Trump's tax returns!
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]




The panel on AC360 is trying to teach Congressman Jack Kingston that what Trump said was admitting to sexual assault and Andre Bauer is (wisely) just keeping his mouth shut.
posted by Talez at 5:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


A friend posted this on her FB page today. With photos.
While driving down MY OWN STREET, this Devil in a blue truck pulls along the side of me, rolls down his window, SPITS ON MY CAR, and then screams out "I HOPE SOMEONE KILLS YOU, YOU N****R BITCH!" In shock (and fear to a certain extent) I grabbed my phone to try to record or get a photo of him and he posed proudly for the camera. I then see the rear of his car ... a Trump supporter... I'm now parked in my driveway shaking.
People, this is in Los Angeles. I am horrified and I feel like we need to all, Muslims and Jews, xtians and blacks and Latin@s and Asians and queers and trans and immigrants of all stripes need to form a coalition of people against white supremacy. How do we make this happen?
posted by Sophie1 at 5:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [107 favorites]


> "Trump to address nation in ‘more personal way’"

I ... I think he's going to grope us all.
posted by kyrademon at 5:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


Here's another take on how or why people have become Trump supporters.

My boomer parents got hooked on Fox news years ago and have become total tea-party kooks.

It was a result of conditioning. They spent their formative and young adult lives in an era when TV JOURNALISTS/REPORTERS were heroes of the people. Edward R Murrow, Walter Cronkite etc. were expected and known to report with accuracy and integrity. When folks watched "the news" on tv, it was just the facts. They were very trustworthy.

Many years later when CNN and later FOX changed the game, most of that segment of the population didn't ask questions...they just bought the bill of goods thinking that they were being presented the straight, honest facts. The Rs totally used that conditioning...they have for decades since the Reagan presidency.

What really breaks my heart is that my folks are incredibly intelligent and highly educated. THEY were the ones who taught me to QUESTION EVERYTHING! But even in light of everything that's been exposed regarding that shit-heel Trump, they are still hard-liners. Members of some trumped up tribe of asshole racists because it's easier to point fingers and be a follower than to ask serious questions and wonder just WTF is going on. Hate is very easy for humans.

Love and compassion takes work and effort. Personally, I AM VERY WILLING TO DO THE FUCKING WORK!

FWIW, Dip-shit Eric Trump said something about his pop being an Alpha...REAL ALPHAS KEEP THEIR EYES OPEN TO PROTECT AND SERVE THOSE WHO NEED HELP! Not abuse them. Fuckers.
posted by 1980sPunkersForHillary.com at 5:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [45 favorites]


Trump to address nation in ‘more personal way’

I literally shuddered and recoiled. Do not want, do not want at all.
posted by yasaman at 5:54 PM on October 14, 2016 [20 favorites]


Trump to address the nation? What exactly is he going to address us about that he can't or won't or is not already saying in his stump speeches? By "a more personal way", will he be sitting in a plush chair in front of a roaring fire, stroking a white cat? Why am I getting flashbacks to McCain in the fall of 2008 briefly suspending his campaign to address the financial crisis? And if/when Trump addresses the nation, undoubtedly with wall-to-wall coverage, will Hillary be afforded the same opportunity?
posted by The Nutmeg of Consolation at 5:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


1980sPunkersforHillary.com, did you join Metafilter just to post in our election threads? Welcome!
posted by peacheater at 5:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


> Trump to address nation in ‘more personal way’

Holy shit, who tailored that jacket? It looks likes a wool trash bag that somebody over-ironed.
posted by boo_radley at 5:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


More fun from the "Unattractive" article:

Senator Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania, who is seeking re-election, released a television commercial saying he has “a lot of disagreements” with Mr. Trump.

Boom! Pat Toomey slaa- wait, that's it? That's not even weak.

Paul D. Ryan, the speaker of the House, who announced this week that he would no longer defend Mr. Trump, ignored him entirely in a speech to college Republicans in Wisconsin. Mr. Ryan criticized Mrs. Clinton and Democratic policies, but made no case for his own party’s nominee.

Jeesh for a zombie-eyed granny starver he's no fun.

Mr. Trump’s bitter attacks on the news media, and Mr. Slim in particular, seem to echo the precise language used by several of his advisers, Stephen K. Bannon and Roger Stone, who have long cast Mr. Slim as an ominous presence in the American news media.

Oh, right. I wondered what that Carlos Slim thing was about. Trumpy wanna cracker.
posted by petebest at 5:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


BREAKING: After searching thousands of hours of videotape, Trump was discovered to have said something respectful. (Fake)
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]




"Trump to address nation in ‘more personal way’"

#StateoftheGroper
posted by nubs at 6:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Shit you guys. MSNBC and CNN just went black. I checked on Twitter and someone in Georgia is reporting the same. I'm in Los Angeles.
posted by Sophie1 at 6:01 PM on October 14, 2016


peacheater: I'm actually snsranch! Been just lurking for a couple of years. Fired up a new handle because I'M SO EXCITED!!!!!

Thanks for the welcome! It's nice to be back!
posted by 1980sPunkersForHillary.com at 6:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [37 favorites]


CNN is on here in DC.
posted by mrzarquon at 6:04 PM on October 14, 2016


I see where you're coming from now rokusan, thank you. Although I'd argue Trump and the current clusterfuck is the result of the right's social wedge tactics, rather than the cause, but that's probably a chicken or the egg question.
posted by ghost phoneme at 6:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]




Cnn fne in dukes county, mass.
posted by vrakatar at 6:06 PM on October 14, 2016


A fun video from Australia showing Hillary's lighter side when she was Secretary of State (via the Hillary Clinton subreddit).
posted by peacheater at 6:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


And MSNBC is up also.
posted by mrzarquon at 6:06 PM on October 14, 2016


"Trump to address nation in ‘more personal way’"

Translated from weaselspeak, this means he's going to make a speech which he hopes will get full media coverage and he doesn't have to pay anything. Sort of like that "news conference" he held at his new hotel a few weeks ago.
posted by teirnon at 6:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


My cable TV is out completely in DTLA (twc) but I still have internet.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 6:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


So Trump is going to fire up all his marketing arms and then start some concerted push to his website, right? Or is it going to be a directed push at breitbart. What direction do you all think the Trump scam will take next?
posted by cashman at 6:09 PM on October 14, 2016


"Give me money, which I will use to fight voter fraud?"
posted by Spathe Cadet at 6:10 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Probably going to fire up his webcam.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 6:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


So I know we've been doing a collective massive eyeroll at Trump's second line of defense against the women coming forward to describe being assaulted by Trump (the first line of defense being the deplorable claim that the women's status as liars is proven by their being insufficiently attractive to warrant sexual assault.) That second line of defense is that the mainstream media are in the pocket of the Clintons and the "international elite" and a wealthy Mexican shareholder of the NY Times, and are all involved in a vast conspiracy to get Clinton elected.

But the thing that really scares me is how this claim of Trump's is taken seriously by a huge slice of the American populace, not just some fanatical fringe. I think it's hard for MeFites to comprehend, because our whole joint venture is about sharing and linking media stories, being able to evaluate sources' authoritativeness, and presuming that there is some empirical reality we can jointly agree upon as the basis for discussion. But it's not just the noisy attendees of Trump rallies shouting "Fuck CNN!" who reject a worldview like ours as at best deluded, and more likely collusion.

Take a good look at this Gallup poll of last month, looking at Americans faith in the "mass media," as Gallup words the question. You'll see a graph displaying data over the past 20 years, starting in 1997. It's clear that party affiliation plays a significant role in how much trust Americans feel in the mass media. In 1997, 64% of Democrats basically trusted the mass media, in comparison to 53% of Independents and 41% of Republicans. By 2015, those figures were 55% of Democrats, 33% of independents, and 32% of Republicans. That's a drop of 9 points for both Democrats and Republicans. What happened during the intervening 20 years was undoubtedly related to the introduction of Fox News (in 1995), and then the influence of social media (Facebook, YouTube and Reddit all enter the scene in 2005). Faith in the "mass media" declined as more individually filtered news consumption took over.

But then look at what happened in just one year--a year of presidential campaigning featuring Donald Trump. Democrats lost 4 percentage points of confidence in the mass media. Independents lost 3. And Republicans lost EIGHTEEN percentage points of confidence in the "mass media" (which they must surely be hearing as the "mainstream media," nemesis of Trump, Fox, and the alt right). Only 14% of Republicans now say they have a great deal or fair amount of confidence in the mass media.

To me, this is a total parallel to what's happened on the right under the reign of Fox and Reddit and Breitbart and Trump with regard to trust in science and in academia. Institutions that produce knowledge through studies, that teach it in colleges, and that disseminate in the news have all been demonized as biased, liberal, and untrustworthy. The content of that knowledge--empirical facts, tested by science and fact-checking and peer review--can therefore be dismissed. What was once a position of the far right fringe--that all of the reality being described to us by experts is a conspiratorial lie--has become mainstream on the right.

Republicans, who spent decades complaining about what they termed progressives' "moral relativisim," now believe in *empirical relativism*. There are no objective facts any more, according to them. There are only competing views of reality that are determined by political belief. Reality is a matter of faith. It's a matter of who is in charge. It's Orwellian.

The drudgery of the Middle Ages came to an end with the Enlightenment. The Enlightenment led to the industrial revolution and an explosion of intellectual creativity, all founded on one central idea: that humans should use their capacity for reason to discover the truth about the world, and share that truth. Instead of just learning by rote whatever the King or the Bible said, we should seek new knowledge, and test it. Other people should check our facts. Objective truth should be discovered, and published, and used to better the state of humanity.

It really seems to me that Trump and his ilk want to put an end to the Enlightenment. They want to return us to an era of the nature of empirical reality being defined by competing faiths, each with a set of unverifiable beliefs, warring with one another. They want to go Medieval on science, academia, and the press.

I guess I should say, not that they want to do this, but they have done so. Their conspiratorial dismissal of the idea of objective reality that can be researched and fact-checked has spread and become the new status quo. Just look at that figure one more time: only 14% of Republicans in America have even a fair amount of trust in the "mass media."

These are scary times.
posted by DrMew at 6:12 PM on October 14, 2016 [132 favorites]


Fuller context on "more personal way" (after a paragraph ranting about and denying the Zervos allegation):
Hillary Clinton can spend all of her time and money pushing complete lies against our campaign, but I refuse to fall victim to this vicious cycle of personal attacks. In the coming days I plan on addressing our nation in a more personal way to present my vision for how together we fight to bring back American jobs and defend our country against radical Islamic terrorism. I will take my message directly to the American people and bypass the unethical press that wants to see their candidate elected. Together, we will make America great again.
In other words, he wants to say something directly rather than have the press be involved. I'm not sure how much more direct he wants to be, since they still cover the heck out of every word that come out of his mouth, but there you go. Maybe he'll do an online town hall or something.
posted by zachlipton at 6:13 PM on October 14, 2016


Dammit. I better stock up before the inevitable 300% price increase on my precious

i'm sad that this will likely remove all opportunity for me to get in on the ground floor of the new oligarchy


In Cuba, cigars are for everyone, my friend, not only the wealthy, and the finest rum is the $1 bottle you pass around the fire with strangers on the beach. Join us!

(Damn, I need to get back soon.)
posted by rokusan at 6:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Watching that Elfman thing I thought: Donnie thinks running for prez is a simple as winning his reality show, the footage can be edited down, he never realized the cameras will catch every gross moment, truth 24 times a second, it is as if his own camera loving ego is being sharpened and honed into a lance, and now it punctures him 24 times a second for the next few weeks. Maybe months. Maybe forever.
posted by vrakatar at 6:16 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


We got a Trump mailing. They were asking for an emergency donation, in order to beat Clinton. I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.

Am I a bad person?


My mother-in-law used to save her used batteries to mail back in the postage paid envelopes of the anti-choice groups whose mailing lists she signed up for.
posted by rbellon at 6:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [82 favorites]


looking at Americans faith in the "mass media," as Gallup words the question.

And Gallup is no dout part of that perceived mass media that they are asking about. I'd expect that's part of the reported wider decline in approval numbers from the conservatives.
posted by petebest at 6:18 PM on October 14, 2016


> Jesus, is he going to start lobbing insults at the rest of us too

I wasn't shocked when he insulted women (me!) and liberals (me!) and Hillary supporters (me!) but when he felt it was necessary to throw shade at my fellow concussion-sufferers -- that honestly took be by surprise.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [23 favorites]


Donald Trump is setting the stage to never concede the 2016 election

If there is anything to the various "Putin is supporting Trump and interfering with our election" allegations, I have to concede that it could be (and maybe already is) terrifyingly effective. Let's posit that Trump does not win the election, even then the shit-show is almost certainly not over, and the damage to America's ability to lead internationally could be considerable. For example, the ability to focus on issues of importance. For example, the ability to get serious input and expertise on both sides of an issue while formulating policy. I appreciated The World Famous's comments about negotiating with Hillary's team as a Republican. As a left-leaning Democrat, I believe that government works best when there are (at least) two parties that have intelligent beliefs, integrity, and respect for each other, and who will hold the other accountable if they overstep -- so as much as I would be tempted to gloat if the GOP self-destructs, I cannot imagine that would be good for America. Unless somehow an "adversary" that I could respect rises like a phoenix from the ashes. I hope Hillary's is forward-looking enough to help that happen... do we need a Marshall Plan for US politics?
posted by brambleboy at 6:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


I will take my message directly to the American people and bypass the unethical press

MOAR RALLIES
posted by vrakatar at 6:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Sign report, from east-central Louisville, KY (mostly white, medium-prosperous blue-collar): about 3 Clinton-Kaine signs popping up as if by magic in my 'hood. There's been an enormous Rand Paul for Senate sign nearby for some time, and a few small Jim Gray (Paul's challenger) signs. Still a handful of Bernie 2016 signs on lawns and in windows. No Trumps.
posted by jackbishop at 6:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


In the last thread, someone (EmpressC, maybe? It's hard to search on this tablet.) expressed her excitement about requesting HRC inauguration tickets. Kid Ruki and I went to the 2012 inauguration and it was an amazing experience. The kid was eleven, and I'm thoroughly convinced that that day sparked their activist spirit. The worst part was that an anti-choice activist climbed a tree nearby and his shouting made it hard to hear. But, I'll be honest, I'm straight up too scared to request tickets again. I can't guarantee that I'd be able to keep my AFAB agender kid safe. That anti-choice activist is well known (not linking to his name, but he's easy to find online) and he was admitted to the Capitol Lawn. Security is tight, I know. I almost threw out the kid's cell phone because they hadn't charged it and we wouldn't be admitted if it didn't turn on (it had just enough charge to eventually show the Verizon logo) so I know no one will be getting in with weapons, but the thought of being in such a huge crowd with Trumpists (because those politicians have tickets, too) terrifies me. To be a woman, with a non gender performing child, in the midst of that... Fuck them for successfully scaring me. Fuck Trump for literally inciting terror. Fuck all of them for taking this historic moment, where a woman will be President, and reminding us yet again that it's not enough. We are not enough, according to them, and the them is bigger than I thought. What a glorious and horrific time to be a woman.
posted by Ruki at 6:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


I wish there was someplace I could post questions about how to respond to my friends' sincere objections to Hillary without completely derailing the thread. One of my Twitter followers just came into my mentions, and... I know she's coming from a place of good faith, and I have strong objections about our role in wars overseas as well. (I had this objection with Obama and with Hill's husband.) At the same time, I care about the Supreme Court, LGBTQIA issues, reproductive rights, and the minimum wage, and I know Hillary does too. I also trust her with the nuclear codes. I don't have the energy to get into a discussion about this now, but I wish I could explain my concerns about the Democrats' involvement in overseas wars but still explain why I'm voting for Hillary.
posted by pxe2000 at 6:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


One of my strongest early political memories is the replay of Hillary Clinton talking about a "vast right-wing conspiracy" over and over and over and over. Trump is literally accusing her of a vast left-wing conspiracy. Trump's fucking Mirror, guys.
posted by gatorae at 6:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


I don't have enough evidence to say that Trump will attempt to make a TV speech, but if he were to do that, he might have to buy the time with actual money. Sometimes the time is given for free, sometimes not. In either case, if networks grant him time, they have to offer the same amount of time under the same conditions to Secretary Clinton. Equal Time Rule

Right now, it sounds to me like he's trying to indicate that his rally speeches will pivot to policy matters (but it's entirely Secretary Clinton's fault if sexual assault accusers keep appearing which prevent that pivot.) Even his base realizes that retaliation comes before policy, and they may well prefer that. I couldn't speak to that...
posted by Silverstone at 6:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I suspect that the Human Anagram and maybe a couple of other politically astute would encourage the Traffic Cone to concede. Even Ailles knows that to claim foul is the path to insanity. If nothing else, they have a TV network to launch once this is done.
posted by Ber at 6:31 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I don't have enough evidence to say that Trump will attempt to make a TV speech.

He really needs to make a TV speech, he hasn't promoted one of his hotels in a while.
posted by Omon Ra at 6:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


>I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.

>Am I a bad person?

I seem to recall that in Steal This Book, Abbie Hoffman recommended taping a postage-paid card to a brick and dropping it in the mail. Less likely to be delivered, but more satisfying as a symbolic gesture, I guess.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 6:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Buzzfeed Republican Women Blast Trump For Mocking Accusers’ Looks
Katie Packer, who served as Mitt Romney’s deputy campaign manager in 2012 and has been a sharp critic of Trump, responded to Trump’s attacks on the accusers’ attractiveness with barbed sarcasm. “I’m sure that 90% of the women in America will breathe a sigh of relief to know that you can’t be sexually assaulted unless you look like a supermodel.”

She attributed the nominee’s behavior to that of a “predator who has been trapped … lashing out at those who have cornered him.” Trump, she said, “gets his rocks off on controlling and intimidating women who have less power than him.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [44 favorites]


Just FYI I'm making risotto for dinner tonight pretty much entirely because of this thread.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 6:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [32 favorites]


I wish there was someplace I could post questions about how to respond to my friends' sincere objections to Hillary without completely derailing the thread.

I don't think it's a derail to ask how to deal with a person who is legitimately sitting the fence - in fact, assuming a person is sitting the fence between Clinton and Trump is probably a mistake, in this venue. My response would be that Clinton is the only realistic alternative to Trump, and that we as an electorate can apply pressure to the less agreeable policies after we have made sure Trump doesn't become president.
posted by Mooski at 6:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I told our congressional race we would be willing to house staffers from out of town if needed, and tonight, got the call- they need housing for a couple from DC (both staffers) until the Election! And I said yes! I must be crazy. Hope this will be fun. Either way, it will be an adventure. Tomorrow, I scramble to get the room in shape- probably should try to find a lamp that isn't broken.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


Donald Trump is setting the stage to never concede the 2016 election

Him never conceeding also gives Congressional Republicans the excuse they didn't even need to deny Hilary her SCOTUS appointment, or any judicial or executive appointments at all.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


I wish I could explain my concerns about the Democrats' involvement in overseas wars but still explain why I'm voting for Hillary.

Either Trump or Clinton will be president. Which of the two will do more good per your definition of good?

Perfect shouldn't be the enemy of good because, in the case of a WTO binary election, perfect isn't on the ballot and trying to maintain "perfect" because good isn't good enough helps "bad" win.

Here's the thing about the lesser of two evil arguments from my point of view. Less evil means more good. Vote for the more good candidate. Vote against the less good candidate.

I mean, this is totally simplistic but its still a greyscale rainbow more complex than "all evil is evil even lesser evil and I must either vote good or vote evil so I'll let 'really pretty fucking evil' beat 'sort of evil but often good evil' so that I can be a special snowflake."
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Billy Bush expected to get $10 million settlement from NBC
Bush and his legal team have been battling with NBC News chiefs to iron out a settlement — which, sources exclusively tell Page Six, will involve a large lump payment said to be the full value of his three-year contract, valued at around $10 million.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:37 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Him never conceeding also gives Congressional Republicans the excuse they didn't even need to deny Hilary her SCOTUS appointment, or any judicial or executive appointments at all.

I think that's paranoia. When Clinton wins, the Republican establishment will issue public acknowledgment of that fact whether or not Trump does so. Paul Ryan will put out a statement saying, for example, that he called to congratulate Hillary Clinton and he hoped they would be able to work together for the good of the nation.
posted by Justinian at 6:37 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Trump to address nation in ‘more personal way’
He probably yelled to a flunky: "GET MARK BURNETT ON THE LINE! I NEED SOME OF HIS EDITORS!"
"Uh, sir, he's no longer taking our calls"
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:37 PM on October 14, 2016


I'm not convinced his campaign is competent enough to stream a laptop webcam to his site.

Or the audio cuts out. After the crappy rambulous speech some besuited fsckstick leans in to close the camera. Like that. I also have doubts about the viability of a new multimedia company associated with Trumpophone.
posted by petebest at 6:38 PM on October 14, 2016


I think Conway may have run out of fucks to give after the disasterous rally in North Carolina. CNN reports after Trump knocked over his TelePrompTer and went back to wordsalad:
"You know we let Trump be Trump," she said. "It's the end of teleprompters for tonight."
Asked if Trump would be back on the teleprompters at his next rally, Conway muttered "who knows" before offering a tongue-in-cheek comment:
"He's always on message, don't you think?"
posted by humanfont at 6:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [44 favorites]


I find it hard to believe that Kellyanne ever had any fucks, for anyone or anything.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Mod note: Couple deleted. Let's not go in the direction of joking about something bad happening to Melania.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 6:43 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


If NBC is going to pay Billy Bush his full contract amount they should keep him and just give him crap stories to cover that never make it to air. Alternating with him reading on-air apologies for being a rape enabler. Let him quit if he doesn't like it.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 6:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [65 favorites]


I think that's paranoia. When Clinton wins, the Republican establishment will issue public acknowledgment of that fact whether or not Trump does so.

All executive appointments may be too conspiratorial, although I'm not convinced Ryan or McConnell will just return to business as usual if Trump is still out there trying to maintain a shadow government backed by TrumpTV and 80% of the Republican base. But I fully believe that if the Democrats do not take the Senate, Republicans will not allow her to seat any Supreme Court justice for the entirety of her 4 year term. All they have to do is hang on 2 years and they will have the Senate back again, and then it's only 12 months or so until 2020 election time. They can withstand public pressure that long, they have so far in 2016. They've paid no price whatsoever for obstructing Garland.

The entire Republican project for 40 years has focused on maintaining the Court as the ultimate Trump card, so to speak. They saw the power of the Warren Court, and ever since it's been the overriding goal to install a rightwing version that could roll back the entire New Deal and Civil Rights movement which they could never achieve legislatively, and are farther than ever from achieving today. They will NOT allow Hilary to up end the 5-4 balance in their favor, much less install another appointment after that.

There are no more norms, and if Democrats do not hold 50+1 Senate seats and eliminate the judicial filibuster, Republicans will not confirm a SCOTUS seat. That's just the world we live in now.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:45 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Yeah stick Billy Bush in a room and require him to copy the dictionary 8 hours a day. Sadly, that would probably count as a "constructive dismissal". But it would also be hilarious.
posted by Justinian at 6:46 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


There are no more norms, and if Democrats do not hold 50+1 Senate seats and eliminate the judicial filibuster, Republicans will not confirm a SCOTUS seat. That's just the world we live in now.

And I still think you're wrong, and would probably put money on that if I were a betting man. Things can be bad without being that bad.
posted by Justinian at 6:46 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


@SopanDeb Another instance where Trump/Pence aren't on same page. Pence said this week Trump would immediately rip up Iran deal. Not what he says here

Transcript from Trump's Charlotte rally:
We won't be giving $150 billion to a terrorist state. We'll be looking at that deal so close inside out and backwards. And if it's not--if they are not living up. I mean the hardest part for me is we're giving them so much money already. I would have liked it so much more before we gave them all that money.

But if they don't honor that deal to every single little line, every single little word, we're going to rip the sucker up so much your head will spin. Your head will spin. It's one of the most incompetent deals I've ever seen in my life. I'm not talking about nation to nation. Secretary Kerry never stood up and said we'll be walking.
First of all I would be willing to bet he has no idea what the deal with Iran consists of and second of all I would be willing to bet he still thinks that the money that was handed over came from U.S. taxpayers. Finally, how do you rip up a contract so hard it makes your head spin? I can tell you one thing that makes my head spin-- trying to figure out the nonsense that spews from his addled brain.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


So I am less freaked out about the outcome of the election than I was last month, when polls were close. I still find myself irrationally anxious about black swan type events; hackers (supported by the Russian government or not), something actually being revealing and damaging in an e-mail dump (I don't think any of the existing stuff has been too too surprising, but eggs on twitter are so confident and share scary screenshots of 4-chan-y looking message that seem confident that they have something damaging). I realize those are probably irrational fears, but it scares me anyway. And the escalation of hateful rhetoric from Trump about women, religious and ethnic minorities has a non-trivial chance of getting more people hurt and seems enormously damanging to the national fabric.

So like, I'm pretty sure Hillary will receive the most votes and win the election but I am worried about payoffs in extremely bad states of the world and what damage Trump does to the country while losing.

This sucks.
posted by dismas at 6:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Any Republicans who back up Dishonest Don in his "the election was stolen" would necessarily end up on Team Trump in the post-election "Battle for the Soul of the Party"* Purely a position for "Dead Enders".

* I know, it's a silly thing to call it since the Republican Party sold its soul a LONG time ago.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:50 PM on October 14, 2016


Just FYI I'm making risotto for dinner tonight pretty much entirely because of this thread

First we were all craving tacos, then we were cramming skittles (in my case M&Ms which look close enough) into our mouths and now risotto. Will no one think of our waistlines?!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


And popcorn! I forgot the popcorn!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:53 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Any Republicans who back up Dishonest Don in his "the election was stolen" would necessarily end up on Team Trump in the post-election "Battle for the Soul of the Party"* Purely a position for "Dead Enders".

Up until he tries again in 2020.
posted by Talez at 6:53 PM on October 14, 2016


Trump denied these claims in his statement and said Zervos had contacted him as recently as April.

"To be clear, I never met her at a hotel or greeted her inappropriately a decade ago. That is not who I am as a person, and it is not how I've conducted my life."


This is not MetaFilter. These are not words in a sentence, and you lack the ability to read. Lorem ipsum dolor sit. Fharfegnügen.
posted by petebest at 6:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


It's the latest voter suppression tactic, you can't go vote if your pants don't fit!
posted by ghost phoneme at 6:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Up until he tries again in 2020.

Good god. I am almost 100% certain that I couldn't go through all this twice in one lifetime.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Donald Trump is setting the stage to never concede the 2016 election


I've said it before, but I think he'll quietly concede, and the reason is this; there's really not any reason to not arrest him if he keeps throwing a fit after the election. It's clearly not going to be close, and the results should agree with the election polls. The vast majority of people will understand he's been clearly defeated and there's no way it was stolen. Most of his base will desert him (as a 'strongman' candidate, they will consider him weak and a failure for losing and will grow contempt for him almost instantly). The conspiracy theorists and neo-nazis that make up the core of his unshakable base will be incited, but they won't really be much more incited if he's arrested than if he loudly crows about the election being stolen either.

I think the powers that be are going to offer him the carrot of ignoring all of his campaign misconduct and perhaps his charity crimes if he concedes, or at least shuts up. And they'll also quietly inform him that his arrest-proof status went away when he lost the election and they'll come after him if he doesn't. And I think he'll take the offer.
posted by Mitrovarr at 6:57 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


It's the latest voter suppression tactic, you can't go vote if your pants don't fit!

LOL I have sweatpants!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:57 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


He won't make a concession speech. Even dragged to the podium, whatever he says, and people will call it a 'concession speech', will be more accurately described as a 'fuck you all, you get what you deserve speech'. Immediately followed by a twitstorm where he blames everyone but himself.
posted by adept256 at 6:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


I totally stole that for my Facebook feed, MoonOrb.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:00 PM on October 14, 2016


So, someone might have said this, but what could Trump do to loose massive support? Easy, video comming to light of him "grabbing the pussy" and then the woman beating the ever loving shit out of him. All those alphas who are following him because he's the big alpha* would be devastated.

Look for a period where he disappeared for a week or so to let the bruises fade.

*Is there an agreed on way to spell out
a Kif style sigh?
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Secret Life of Gravy: and guacamole! We've got an Election Day menu starting to come together here.
posted by erisfree at 7:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


But if he succeeds at punishing the "Traitors To Trump", he will certainly deliver the Senate to the Democrats and maybe the Congress and some state houses too. Of course, "Trump succeeds" is a situation that has rarely ever happened, but if it did, mastery over a mostly-crippled Republican Party would be the most Pyrrhic of victories with a Consolation Prize worse than a case of Turtle Wax.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:07 PM on October 14, 2016


Does anyone else feel like the last debate might cause actual psychological trauma to the audience? I'm being completely serious.
posted by Justinian at 7:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


The five pounds of anxiety weight I've put on since July attest that this election stress eating struggle is real.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:10 PM on October 14, 2016 [23 favorites]


NoVa is heavily D DC suburbs, right?

Right. And even the republicans here don't care much for Trump, NoVa went Rubio in the primary.
Anecdotal, but the only NoVa people I heard voting for Rubio (or other non-Trumpsters) during the primaries were Dems who crossed over to try to ditch Trump. It was a painful, painful day on FB, listening to all the crossover voters try to stomp out evil.
posted by instamatic at 7:10 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Does anyone else feel like the last debate might cause actual psychological trauma to the audience?

The second debate certainly did.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Does anyone else feel like the last debate might cause actual psychological trauma to the audience?

You mean America? Yeah probably
posted by theodolite at 7:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


The greatest tactic for vaccination against a 2020 Trump presidential run will be to address the 2016 run loser Donald J. Trump (a loser) as "loser" as often and in as many venues as possible. Loser Trump, who lost like a loser who loses. Loserrrrrrrr.

His loser head will explode in fury like a rotten pumpkin. (A pumpkin that lost the County Fair pumpkin contest, loser.)
posted by nicebookrack at 7:12 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Does anyone else feel like the last debate might cause actual psychological trauma to the audience? I'm being completely serious.

Yeah, and that's why I'm skipping it. Watching Trump is manifestly bad for me, so unless someone can spot me a xanax or ativan or something, I'm out.
posted by yasaman at 7:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Does anyone else feel like the last debate might cause actual psychological trauma to the audience?

At this point it's a question of how deep the scars will be.
posted by dis_integration at 7:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Donald Trump is setting the stage to never concede the 2016 election

I know of a big organization near me that'll be doing a lock-down drill on the day after Election Day, and I can understand if people took the day off because that would feel just a little too on-the-nose.

Heck, I have extra vacation days to burn, and being at home on Nov. 8 & 9 is becoming awfully attractive when I think about getting to take my youngest daughter with me to vote, or about angry people waking up angry on Nov. 9 about not getting their way.

Being scared of my neighbors sucks.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:16 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Wow, have you guys seen this? Is this really the state of the Trump campaign's internal polling analysis?
posted by peacheater at 7:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [28 favorites]


Anecdotal, but the only NoVa people I heard voting for Rubio (or other non-Trumpsters) during the primaries were Dems who crossed over to try to ditch Trump. It was a painful, painful day on FB, listening to all the crossover voters try to stomp out evil.

He won 32% of VA, but 39 in Fairfax, 46 in Arlington and 49 in Alexandria. Trump took only 25, 16 and 18 in Nova counties. It was a lot more than crossover trolling, because while VA does have open primaries, you can only vote in one or the other, and Bernie-Hilary was still in full swing on Super Tuesday.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


peacheater: i *think* that's just some guy. If it's not, good fucking luck. technical analysis doesn't work on wall street, and it certainly ain't gonna work with a poll that swings eight points whenever one guy in Illinois responds or not.

Seeing the responses to that was what prompted my minor freakout above, honestly, because the people who aren't making fun of him seem really earnest in a way that scares me a little (given what they're earnest about).
posted by dismas at 7:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


The full context of Trump's "addressing America in a more personal way" sounds almost like he's about to drop Trump TV on us.
posted by gucci mane at 7:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Does anyone else feel like the last debate might cause actual psychological trauma to the audience?

I have noticed one change in myself that I don't like much, particularly because it's so childish and trivial. We all know people with a whistle when they speak, or lisp, or whatever else. That's not something that needs forgiveness. You can love them anyhow and you're sort of a jerk for thinking it's annoying.

The sniffing is annoying to me. SNIFF. Urghh.

Also, do you know how you sometimes go to the bathroom in the morning and your hair is just amazing. It looks so gnarly and feral you sort of wish it would stay that way. Just for halloween. But then of course you set it straight. Melania sees Donald's bed-hair everyday before he does whatever it is he does to it. The life of that woman.

I know these are petty and superficial things and there is so much more at stake! And perhaps that's why, I can't cope with the bigotry, I can only focus the inconsequential.

posted by adept256 at 7:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Geez, CIA. What about the element of surprise?

Well, at least they still have fear and ruthless efficiency.
posted by rokusan at 7:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


Some recommended viewing for this election - both films have Donald Trump in them.

Ken Burns: The Central Park Five (2013), free if you have Amazon Prime.
“The Central Park Five,” directed by Ken Burns, is a chilling documentary about the injustice that occurred within the New York Court system in late 1980s, early ‘90s. Amidst an air of racial tension and gross class divides, five young teenagers (aged 14-16) were accused, tried and convicted of the rape and assault of a female jogger. Police officers and the justice system committed the crime of coercing impressionable teens to admit to a crime they didn’t have any part in, offering a way out if they simply pointed the finger at the other “offenders.” Eloquently put by Jim Dwyer, a New York Post contributor who was covering the case at the time, detectives “climbed the ladder of facts,” putting together falsified confessionals full of inconsistencies within the details of separate confessionals on who did what. Media sensationalism, as well as the quantity of coverage in this particular case, is due to the interracial nature of the crime. The media was far from impartial, and they portrayed the boys as poster children of a movement called “wilding” in which large groups of teens get together to assault others and cause mischief. The documentary suggests that, with no DNA evidence and stories that lacked consistency, a group of five teens were sentenced for a crime they had no part in largely so NYPD detectives could pat themselves on the back for a job well done, and get to be heroes in the public eye."
Ava Duvernay: 13th (2016), Netflix.
"[Duvernay's] piece about the long — yet still direct — link between the ending of slavery and the explosion of the prison- industrial complex, particularly when it comes to imprisoning African-American men. It's an extraordinary film, quiet and deliberate in its condemnation of a system of oppression that has simply changed its means but never its ends."
posted by cashman at 7:21 PM on October 14, 2016 [39 favorites]


Melania sees Donald's bed-hair everyday before he does whatever it is he does to it. The life of that woman.

I would not be surprised at all if they kept separate bedrooms.
posted by nathan_teske at 7:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


Geez, CIA. What about the element of surprise?

Well, at least they still have fear and ruthless efficiency.


If they've released info about something they're going to do then there is a strategic reason for doing so.
posted by Jalliah at 7:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Wow, have you guys seen this? Is this really the state of the Trump campaign's internal polling analysis?

General Flynn let them post that on Twitter?

What in the fucking fuck?

Did they think liberals would wet the bed at their unreality and stay home?
posted by Talez at 7:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Did they think liberals would wet the bed at their unreality and stay home?

I can't vote but I can't understand what they're nattering about anyways except there are some lines and numbers on a piece of paper and the guy says "Winning!"
So no wetting the bed here.
posted by Jalliah at 7:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Is this really the state of the Trump campaign's internal polling analysis?

Uhh...are they applying technical analysis to the LA tracking poll?
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


That's some crazed unscewing of the LAT/USC public poll - which is a tracking poll with funky methodology and has been several points +Trump the entire election until like just this week.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Wow, have you guys seen this? Is this really the state of the Trump campaign's internal polling analysis?

I feel dumber for having seen that. It seems clearly fake.
posted by Justinian at 7:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Uhh...are they applying technical analysis to the LA tracking poll?

I'm gathering that's messed up and likely why it is making little sense to me?
posted by Jalliah at 7:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Woah. Republican Women Blast Trump For Mocking Accusers’ Looks, including this from Dana Perino (former Bush Press Secretary):
On Fox News Friday afternoon, Dana Perino tore into high-profile conservatives defending Trump, like Ben Carson and Jeff Sessions. “You know who you are,” she said, prompting some of her co-hosts to joke that her mic might get cut.

“Yeah,” Perino snapped, “because women should be seen and not heard, apparently. After 20 years of defending these guys, [I’m] done.”
Video. h/t @mckaycoppins
posted by zachlipton at 7:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [78 favorites]


"She is NOT winning right now, in spite of the overwhelming media blitzkrieg saying that she is..."

I mean, at this point, even Baghdad Bob is like "my friend, seriously, you must put down the pipe for a moment."
posted by tonycpsu at 7:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [35 favorites]


Is this really the state of the Trump campaign's internal polling analysis?

Uhh...are they applying technical analysis to the LA tracking poll?


It looks to me like their technical analysis budget allows for a ruler and a blue Bic. Good.
posted by Leslie Knope at 7:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [30 favorites]


It looks to me like their technical analysis budget allows for a ruler and a blue Bic. Good.
posted by Leslie Knope at 7:30 PM on October 14 [3 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]


Budget by... Ron Swanson?
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 7:32 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Ava Duvernay: 13th (2016), Netflix.

Just a warning, this one made me cry, a lot.
posted by dis_integration at 7:32 PM on October 14, 2016


Who needs... what do they use for this stuff? SPSS? R? I'm math dumb but I'm pretty sure an old bar coaster for a straight edge and a pen from under your couch cushions is not the state of the art.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Budget by... Ron Swanson?

Ron Swanson is known to spend money on the highest quality tools to accomplish a job with pride.

This is just masturbation. In the sense that they're just fucking themselves.
posted by Talez at 7:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


I think if they used Excel to do that hack job, Clippy would pop up and say "It looks like you're trying to unskew the polls, would you like me to help you with that?"
posted by tonycpsu at 7:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [21 favorites]


Yay Dana Perino!I bet it stunk down there!
posted by vrakatar at 7:35 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Him never conceeding also gives Congressional Republicans the excuse they didn't even need to deny Hilary her SCOTUS appointment, or any judicial or executive appointments at all.

I think Hillary is much more likely to play hardball than Obama with Congress, and if she gets a majority in both houses, I think she's gonna know that she's got 2 years to do everything. They've been stonewalling for 8 years, and, for good or ill, I think there's gonna be payback.
posted by tclark at 7:35 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


The good news is that whoever did that analysis, whether they have anything to do with the campaign or are just some guy on the internet, they almost certainly lose a ton of money trying to day trade with the exact same techniques.
posted by zachlipton at 7:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]




I'm gathering that's messed up and likely why it is making little sense to me?

The NYT's Nate Cohn did an unskew of LAT/USC based upon the known data about a 19-year-old black Trump supporter in Illinois. Here's Cohn on the new polling memo.
posted by holgate at 7:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Wow, have you guys seen this? Is this really the state of the Trump campaign's internal polling analysis?

Is it from Doctor Strangelove or something?
posted by Artw at 7:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I assume the CIA leak is about telling the Russians what we already have hacked and could release and not some hypothetical future hacking operation. The "range of options" is code for "back off and we will go easy".
posted by humanfont at 7:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Mefi's favorite cartoonist seems a little pouty [archive.org link]
posted by ctmf at 7:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


I think if they used Excel to do that hack job, Clippy would pop up and say "It looks like you're trying to unskew the polls, would you like me to help you with that?"

I think you may have just outed one of Donald's chief advisers.
posted by adept256 at 7:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [21 favorites]


Oh my god its real. This is the single greatest boost to my confidence of the whole campaign. If they believe that crap they are stupider than a bag of hammers.
posted by Justinian at 7:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [18 favorites]


I feel dumber for having seen that. It seems clearly fake.

Doesn't have to look real. Has to lay the groundwork to their supporters that they have this in the bag, so when he loses they can cry fraud.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm gathering that's messed up and likely why it is making little sense to me?

Technical analysis is somewhere between reading goat entrails to tell the future and counting cards in blackjack. Some people make a fuckload of money doing it, but there's also no emprical evidence it exists, or works better than a randomly distributed sample.

Trying to apply technical analysis methods, which are totally untested and aren't even relevant to political polling, a totally separate field of statistics than financial markets, to the one poll every serious pollster agrees has maybe the stupidest methodology ever devised is...wow. I'm struggling to come up with a comparison, but, "trying to build a submarine out of butter" is about right.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


Oh, I reacted without seeing that Silver was trolling. You people. You didnt REAL or FAKE.
posted by Justinian at 7:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


I'm gathering that's messed up and likely why it is making little sense to me?

It's dumb. But dumb in an interesting way. "technical analysis" is a term of art for securities trading strategies that basically rely on actively managing a financial portfolio by examining particular assets and trying to make trades on the basis of momentum and eyeballing different shapes of where the price has been lately. So the idea is that usually there's a floor or a ceiling or both and if it gets breached that matters for whether you should buy or sell. There's more complicated strategies that really seem like they're based on aphorisms more than anything else. But the thing is that it basically doesn't work, either across assets or in the long run (in the sense that you would make more money by investing in an index fund), and it's an easy way to handwave your way into losing your shirt. (This all stands in contrast to some version of the efficient markets hypothesis, incidentally, the simplest version of which argues these movements are unpredictable in a statistical sense).

So it looks like whoever made those things is trying to do something similar by drawing lines on a chart. Which is a bad idea when it's a stock price, and even dumber when, as I said, it's the worst tracking poll currently being conducted.
posted by dismas at 7:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


Technical analysis is basically cargo cult voodoo for the stock market.
posted by Justinian at 7:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


Sign report from the outskirts of a suburb in Houston- Previously, there were three Trump signs in my neighborhood, but now all have disapeared. 1 car has a Hillary bumper sticker- but to offset that, a truck outside has a Trump sticker and a stuffed monkey hanging from a noose from his cab.

So.
posted by Torosaurus at 7:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


And yes, they're doing technical analysis on it, which would be great if polling were based upon the same thing as share prices, particularly the algos that drive high-frequency trading.

lol amateurs amateurs
posted by holgate at 7:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I choose to believe its real. Trump's razor!
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Even if technical analysis worked, that's not how it would work.
posted by condour75 at 7:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [21 favorites]


"PSA: Could someone please hire me for a new job soon so I can stop refreshing these threads + twitter constantly all day? Thanks."

Heh. Because I'm doing freelance and job hunting, I have to have a blocker on during work hours otherwise… "Hey, how'd it get so dark out?"
posted by klangklangston at 7:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


And either this is a) bullshit prolefeed or b) Gen Kelly has somehow been conned by a bullshitter or c) they don't have any actual internal polling of their own.
posted by holgate at 7:45 PM on October 14, 2016


Marlee Matlin and Lil Jon were by the far the two best contestants in their season (Celebrity Apprentice Season 4 / Apprentice Season 11) - they were the first and second runners-up to John Rich from country duo Big & Rich. Lil Jon's firing was total and complete bullshit* - Donald fired him because Lil Jon said he was surprised he'd made it so far (shocking after being called "Uncle Tom" all season!!!), and Donald disapproved of this lack of self-puffery. Marlee loses in the finale when, I quote from Wikipedia, "After announcing that he would "do something different", Trump simply announced John Rich as the winner of The Celebrity Apprentice 2011."

Looking back at this season, Mark McGrath was on it - which explains the bizarre Donald Trump Jr. tweet dating from around this time that he tried to delete today. This is also the season in which Donald fired Gary Busey after the Omaha Steaks task, which President Obama used as a joke at the White House Correspondents' Dinner; and the season in which an episode was pre-empted by the announcement of Osama bin Laden's death. Also part of this season: Donald fired Star Jones because she criticized Meatloaf for calling her "sweetie" even though Meatloaf had been completely emotionally unhinged throughout the entire season; John Rich almost breaks down in tears after Gary Busey calls him "boy"; and Meatloaf flips out on Gary Busey over art supplies.

Really, so much about Donald and the Trump con and the Trump family and the dynamic of this race and of race and sex in the U.S. is visible in The Apprentice, and this season specifically.

*ok I realize I'm talking about The Apprentice, all of which is total and complete bullshit, but whatever
posted by sallybrown at 7:46 PM on October 14, 2016 [18 favorites]


The "analysis" is propaganda. It's not for us or undecideds. Well, maybe partly for the dumb undecideds. But it's for their support base. It's laying the argument for their future accusations of fraud costing them the election. You gotta have at least a fig leaf of evidence for a conspiracy theory if you're going to whip up a mob.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


"[Couple deleted. Let's not go in the direction of joking about something bad happening to Melania.]"

She's already married to Donald Trump — we should be watching her blinks for Morse code rescue pleas.
posted by klangklangston at 7:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


This recent phase of the election is interesting in the way it seems to have woken the majority up to the existence of gender theory (I'd credit it with race theory, too, except that BLM and the police killings had a long head start). I keep one foot solidly in traditional media - newspapers, NPR shows - and one online, and I've noticed, for the first time, the gatekeepers in mass journalism being exposed to and using phrases like rape culture and microaggression and gaslighting (just today, there was a long and very thorough and cogent explanation of the term gaslighting on Marketplace). It gave me pause to realize the knock-down drag-outs on MeFi over Shroedinger's rapist and emotional labor and so on had enough of an effect that this stuff is old news to many of us, but just breaking into the awareness of the majority of the mass media audience.

As far as the groping allegations, I'll make one observation. When Bill Cosby's accusers started to go on record, they drew each other out, one by one, because they recognized the similarity of the method. It's at least worth noting that Trump's accusers also describe exactly the same MO - a sort of cornering, then a "groping" with his hands, in at least two cases up their skirts. Predators really do seem to have favored methods, and the similarity of the stories is something that disbelievers should be alert to.

Anyway, yeah, here we are. The election of our first black president surfaced the nation's hidden, unspoken, and latent racism, and the potential election of our first woman - hell, even her having the temerity to run at all - surfaces the nation's deeply embedded sexism and misogyny.
posted by Miko at 7:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [63 favorites]


I'm skipping way to the end of the thread to tell you all that -- squee! -- I saw Hillary Clinton in real life today! She was in Seattle for a campaign event. I was wrangling part of the entrance line. There was strong security and no umbrellas allowed inside on one of the rainiest days ever (there's a big storm coming in). I got to see her speak after some short speeches, including one by the husband of a friend. He is the child of immigrants and in pre-school didn't speak English and was very distraught. But his teacher learned some of his language from his parents to help him adjust and eventually he started being more comfortable and learning. The program he was in? Head Start, just the kind of program Clinton champions. Then later I went to the campaign office where we were having a special phone bank (I mostly had more data to enter!) and guess who showed up there? Senator Murray, Governor Inslee and Hillary Clinton herself! I didn't get to talk to her (everyone crowded around after her speech and she had to leave quickly!) but it was really great to see her in person and here her repeat her positive vision for the country.

I fear I might be annoying my friends because whenever I talk about the election or mention volunteering I suggest events for them, especially after they learn what I was up to on a day like today. :) Now I'm going to back to entering call results (if I can resist reading the brand new thread).
posted by R343L at 7:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [81 favorites]


Marlee loses in the finale when, I quote from Wikipedia, "After announcing that he would "do something different", Trump simply announced John Rich as the winner of The Celebrity Apprentice 2011."


"During the taping of the show, Trump would often scribble down notes while sitting at the table of “the boardroom”—the show’s primary set. A person familiar with the notes who helped clean up after tapings said that on one of the pieces of paper, Trump wrote: “Marlee, is she retarded??”
posted by theodolite at 7:53 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Sometimes I forget that the Republican nominee for President had his own two-hour TV show about himself yelling at B-list celebrities. It was extremely popular and ran for fourteen seasons
posted by theodolite at 7:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


I figured the contents of anything Trump wrote on would resemble the pad Jackie Treehorn was doodling on in The Big Lebowski.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [25 favorites]


Now he's angry because people in one part of the hall can't hear. Upset about the speakers. "Now we don't have to pay for this, and now we don't have to pay for that. Man. Who the hell runs this place?

This Trump fellow is certainly gracious and calm under such intense pressure. When things go wrong he reacts with the greatest character and wisdom.

Wondering how many in his audience are contractors...

I too find if very difficult to push basic logic and reason from my brain in reacting to the spittle shit that spews from Trump's mouth but it really has no place for many of his supporters.

The Republicans have been using horseshit for ink instead of ink for ink for years. They've kept using the digital equivalent for the age of the Internet and partisan "news" channels.

I'm sure they thought Trump was going to be more Tommy Shanks than Trump.

Okay, you know in that Star Trek movie where Spock's brother was going around mind-melding with people to find out what their deepest trauma was so he coulld get them to unburden themselves and heal or something?

You're remembering way more about that film than I am.

As god is my witness

I'm pretty sure your witness is also Trump's next witness to event(s) x not happening.

Trump to address nation in ‘more personal way’

I'm going to increase personalness. No one will be strangers. We're going to know everything about you, OK.
posted by juiceCake at 7:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]




Also, this morning I realised oh yes, that was sexual harassment and assault about multiple incidents. I've experienced more violent sexual abuse so reading the Trump accusations felt puzzling to me because -he kissed them? That was it? Ok, it was wrong, but it feels emotionally like people are yelling about someone jaywalking. Then I thought how deeply upset I'd be if someone did that to one of my friends, and my brain went ohhhh.

I bet there are a lot of women (and some men) Trump voters thinking "I'm fine about it, it didn't hurt me, why is everyone making such a big deal over this?" Because the alternative is realising again that you have to rewrite your personal history with yet-another-that-was-abuse memory. Involving people you liked and probably still live with.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 8:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [59 favorites]


An interesting thought occurred to me; how hard did the Russian cyberattack team actually try? Are we seeing their peewee league or is this all they've got?

I have to believe that the US counter information warfare corps have developed effective countermeasures (and policy recommendations) to prevent recurrence of successful attacks. The private sector does this as a matter of course.

Like, are the intrusions/"hacks" just a "kiddie script" (yeah, showing my age/ignorance) or are they actually sophisticated intrusion operations?
posted by porpoise at 8:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh my, humanfont. Kellyanne Conway, gaslighter for hire, may be burning out right before our eyes. She almost broke character there, and she talks about Trump as if he were a recalcitrant toddler. Are we, just maybe, about to learn what she really thinks?

I will never buy her inevitable tell-all book, because she is a garbage human being, but I may pirate it.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


The Trump campaign just released a statement from Summer Zervos's cousin, John Barry, accusing her of lying about her sexual assault allegation because "I think Summer wishes she could still be on reality TV." (twitter)
posted by sallybrown at 8:02 PM on October 14, 2016


Just thought of a question -- how long do NDAs last? Until Trump's death? Like, on the day Trump dies, are we going to be hit all at once with a tidal wave of people telling their stories about how shitty he was? Or are NDAs forever?
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Wow, John Barry sounds like a real piece of shit.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


Trump's statistical analyst knows what he's doing. If he provides The Boss with any data he doesn't like, he won't get paid. I'm sure he's making sure he gets his final check on November 7th and cashing it IMMEDIATELY.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


So the Trump campaign has just released a statement from Summer Zervos's cousin, who happens to be named "John Barry." Sounds a lot like John Barron.
posted by stolyarova at 8:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


Also via Twitter, NBC has benched its Trump-inspired Law & Order: SVU episode until after the election. Cowards.
posted by sallybrown at 8:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


Zhirinovsky is constantly saying the most wackadoodle shit

He is the leader of the third largest political party in Russia, and was given a medal by Putin himself earlier this year.

Yes, he believes Russia owns Alaska and the entire Pacific Northwest. Yes he believes America is the New Carthage to Russia's Rome. Yes, he believes all nations with Orthodox Christians need to be invaded and made part of the Russian Federation.

He is the leader of the third largest political party in Russia, and was given a medal by Putin himself earlier this year. People believe his shit, even at the highest levels of Russian government.

He was allowed to say this.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


If he provides The Boss with any data he doesn't like, he won't get paid.

Make "Fixed That For You" Great Again.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


are the intrusions/"hacks" just a "kiddie script"

They're spear-phishing built upon social engineering. And spear-phishing has got very good over the last couple of years.
posted by holgate at 8:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Raise your hand if you too happen to have a right-wing cousin who would probably take Trump's side against yours in the national media
posted by Countess Elena at 8:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [113 favorites]


And I believe that the doxxing / smearing has been outsourced to Rage Furby Johnson and Pax Dickinson. Let's see if they show up in the FEC reports.
posted by holgate at 8:07 PM on October 14, 2016


An interesting thought occurred to me; how hard did the Russian cyberattack team actually try? Are we seeing their peewee league or is this all they've got?

Podesta is a private citizen, using a gmail address. They didn't try hard, and Podesta probably could've prevented the whole thing by turning on two-factor. This isn't like they hacked the Joint Chiefs.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


I will never buy her inevitable tell-all book

She's probably NDA'd.

how long do NDAs last? Until Trump's death?

Until he's broke. Which may be sooner than you think but not as soon as we hope.
posted by holgate at 8:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


A right-wing MALE cousin. Who wants to bet we will NEVER see a woman contradicting any of Trump's victims' claims?

And I thought Lou Dobbs was already at work on the doxxing.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


From John Barry's statement:
Summer would also talk about how kind and caring Mr. Trump was on the show, and how he would even visit children in hospitals without telling the press.
Trump would visit children in hospitals? With the intent of making them feel better? Like, a sick kid is going to be sad in a hospital, see Donald Trump, the real estate guy who fires B and C-list celebrities on TV, and then be not as sad? I'm not really understanding how this would in any way make sick kids feel better. Nor has Fahrenthold reported on donations Trump made to pediatric hospitals or anything of that sort.

He also, at no time, says anything to refute the allegations his cousin made.
posted by zachlipton at 8:10 PM on October 14, 2016 [19 favorites]


Lil Jon speaks out (twitter):
"When this 'Uncle Tom' incident happened on Celebrity Apprentice in the boardroom several of my castmates and I addressed Mr. Trump immediately when we heard the comment. I can't say if he knew what he was actually saying or not, but he did stop using that term once we explained it's offensiveness.

I also want to be clear that I don't agree with many of the statements Mr. Trump has said during his current run for President."
If you watch the clip I linked to above about John Rich accusing Gary Busey of calling him "boy," there's a weird scene in the boardroom where Donald questions why Rich is so upset, and then says the only person who would be more upset by that is Lil Jon, looking to Lil Jon for approval as if saying "see, don't I get it?," which Lil Jon confirms. I wonder if that was a callback to the earlier-in-the-season discussion around why "Uncle Tom" was hurtful...
posted by sallybrown at 8:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Wow, John Barry sounds like a real piece of shit.

Oh, I thought you said John Barron.
posted by petebest at 8:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


An interesting thought occurred to me; how hard did the Russian cyberattack team actually try? Are we seeing their peewee league or is this all they've got?

I have to believe that the US counter information warfare corps have developed effective countermeasures (and policy recommendations) to prevent recurrence of successful attacks. The private sector does this as a matter of course.

Like, are the intrusions/"hacks" just a "kiddie script" (yeah, showing my age/ignorance) or are they actually sophisticated intrusion operations?


These actors are both known, among other names, as APTX; APT stands for Advanced Persistent Threat. If you read the CrowdStrike analysis, they were in the DNC's systems for a year before they were detected. I'm not saying they're the best of the best, but they're far above script kiddies. Both government and private sector have preventative measures, but at the account level in consumer systems that protection generally only applies if the user opts into the high-security features (two-factor, as T.D. Strange points out).
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 8:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


From the Dep't of Trump pissing off small constituencies of the U.S. electorate:

Donald Trump wrongly maligns U.S. chess prowess
:
Trump went on to say that with multilateral pacts like the TPP, "you can't terminate -- there's too many people, you go crazy. It's like you have to be a grand chess master. And we don't have any of them." (You can see it here, around the 19:45 mark.)

Trump’s statement sounded wrong to us. The Trump campaign did not respond to an inquiry, but as it turns out, it is wrong. In fact, the comment provoked anger and ridicule within the chess community, which knows that the United States is currently on a roll in international competition.

It’s literally wrong that "we don’t have any" chess grandmasters. That’s the correct term, by the way, not "grand chess masters." Currently, the United States has 90 grandmasters, counting both men and women, which is enough to rank third-highest in the world.
Guess who has the most grandmasters in the world?

See also: Garry Kasparov tweeted today: "Trump is a moral and political failure, a suicide bomber trying to take the American political system down with him. Don’t let him."
posted by sallybrown at 8:16 PM on October 14, 2016 [35 favorites]


During the third debate, with the whole world watching, the Triffids will release a snow across the TV screens blinding us all and then Trump will begin to repeat Pontypool type words, which were never very different from his usual word salad.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


generally only if the user opts into the high-security features (two-factor, as T.D. Strange points out).

SwiftOnSecurity had some good correspondence yesterday from a tech person for a major elected official, who said that the legally-mandated distinction between public office activity and private campaign activity was the biggest hurdle for infosec people.
posted by holgate at 8:21 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


As of today, 1,175,620 people have voted in the election.
posted by sallybrown at 8:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [31 favorites]


Does anyone else feel like the last debate might cause actual psychological trauma to the audience?


Psychological, spiritual, dimensional.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


are the intrusions/"hacks" just a "kiddie script"
>They're spear-phishing built upon social engineering. holgate
Then make being trained in information defense proficiencies be part of retaining one's job (as a public servant). Those would have to be maintained as standards change, like any other licensed profession.

Then offer all of the information defense classes available to the public; fund translators for young adults, for children, for the elderly, for the tech resistant, and all in different languages.
posted by porpoise at 8:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


LePage says 2 leaders of effort to raise Maine’s minimum wage should be jailed

Jesus Fucking Christ. American political discourse just keeps getting dumber. Thanks a fucking lot you human cheeto.
posted by Talez at 8:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [52 favorites]


Though another barrier is that elected officials and campaign higher-ups are generally older and just want the digital shit to work which, from experience, opens up security holes. (Mundane things like trying to set up SSL email or explaining why every login needs to be secure or why you can't use the same password in multiple services or why you might need a VPN switched on all the time and why public wifi is dangerous. I saw that John Podesta used the wifi on the bus he took from NYC to DC and that has my infosec hackles up.)

The top-tier campaign pros seem to have gravitated over to end-to-end secure services like Telegram.
posted by holgate at 8:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


We have to be tough enough to endure our political process. Period. There have been some really difficult eras in the story of this nation. So, the security has to be excellent at this event. The building has to be secure, every square inch, the podiums, everything. The rules of engagement should be in place, and I hope the moderation is good. I hope the afterwards scene is well guarded, all the way out the door, all the exit doors where someone could get in, and I hope we can all watch, and not be cowed by the situation.
posted by Oyéah at 8:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


An interesting thought occurred to me; how hard did the Russian cyberattack team actually try? Are we seeing their peewee league or is this all they've got?
Given that Podesta's twitter was hacked yesterday, I strongly suspect that he is vulnerable to Nigerian Princes and sincere concern about security from Google's tech support team, where they no doubt wanted some helpful information.
posted by xyzzy at 8:31 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Loved Takei's recent takedown of Trump's I consider myself, in a certain way, to be a blue-collar worker

Although I guess Trump could be considered to work with his hands... in a frottage industry.
posted by BrotherCaine at 8:35 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


User name: JPodesta1
Password: podesta1
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:35 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Then make being trained in information defense proficiencies be part of retaining one's job

Follow SwiftOnSecurity. Whoever Tay might be, they are talking about this stuff: it's a problem of authentication, not infrastructure hardness.
posted by holgate at 8:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Podesta1!

Humans are the biggest baxkdoor into computer systems.
posted by tilde at 8:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Then make being trained in information defense proficiencies be part of retaining one's job (as a public servant).
Podesta is currently a private citizen working for a political campaign. This is just straight up tech illiteracy that kajillions of Americans are vulnerable to. Encryption + bio authentication (thumb, eyeball) are the best solutions for these types of people, imho.
posted by xyzzy at 8:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


> The Trump campaign just released a statement from Summer Zervos's cousin, John Barry, accusing her of lying about her sexual assault allegation because "I think Summer wishes she could still be on reality TV."

We the undersigned are completely shocked and horrified by the allegations against Mr. Trump. The women accusing Donald J. Trump of sexual assault are terrible. Everything about Mr. Trump is amazing and positive and they are clearly just fame-hungry attention dogs who would do anything just to have themselves talked about on television. Underline anything in that sentence, Meredith, maybe twice. Also, Mr. Trump's accusers are ugly and he wouldn't want to have anything to do with them anyway, and if they were hot, which they're not, he could get them because that's just how amazing and good he is. In short, Mr. Trump is the best person who has ever lived and then more like that, then make up some names.

Signed,

Mary St. Stephens • Johnny Kelly • Barron V. Iverson • D. J. J. Johns • Anne Johns • Melanie Meredith St. Stephens • Kellyanne Kelly • Mary St. Stephens • Johnny Iverson • Melanie Barron-O'Kelly • Eric J. Barry • Steven Kelly • Johnny-John Stevens • Barron D. J. Bannon • Barry Iverson • D. J. Stevens • Baron Johns • Baron Barry Kelly • Barron B. Iverson • Melanie Stevens • Ivan Barron • Steven Ericson • Baron Von Iverson • J. Barry • Mary Barry • D. B. Barron • Barron Johnson • Bannon O'Baron • Steven Steven Stephens • John Melanie Barron • Baron Barry Barron of Yorkshire • Stephen Iverson • Johnny Steve Barron • Kellyanne Stephens • DJ Mary Iverson • Mary John • John Mary • Marion Barry • Barryanne Iverson-Stevens
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [65 favorites]


During the third debate, with the whole world watching, the Triffids will release a snow across the TV screens blinding us all and then Trump will begin to repeat Pontypool type words, which were never very different from his usual word salad.

Whew.

Good thing we have voiceover enabled on our Apple TV box. If blinded, I know exactly how to switch over to Netflix and can navigate menus chill without being able to see the screen. Mr. Conspiracy will be like "What was that?" I'll just be like "Well, let's put it this way - it's helpful there's a couple of extra white canes in the closet because I need one now."

Dear reader, WE ARE PREPARED.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:46 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Americans are losing faith in democracy — and in each other
When it comes to U.S. democracy, which is closest to your view?

I have never had faith - 6%
I have lost faith - 40%
I have faith - 52%
No answer - 2%

This cynicism is widely shared across the electorate, but significant partisan differences emerge on this question, as on so many others. More than 6 in 10 voters backing Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton express faith in U.S. democracy, compared with just over 4 in 10 of those backing her Republican rival. Most of Trump’s supporters say they’ve lost confidence in the basic mechanism of governance in the United States.
posted by sallybrown at 8:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


elected officials and campaign higher-ups are generally older and just want the digital shit to work which, from experience, opens up security holes

This is some straight up ageist techbro bullshit. *everyone* just wants the digital shit to work, and they are fucking right. Some self-examination is in order, should you care to be reflective on the matter.
posted by mwhybark at 8:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [42 favorites]


Most of Trump’s supporters say they’ve lost confidence in the basic mechanism of governance in the United States.
Maybe their party could try voting on things.
posted by xyzzy at 8:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [54 favorites]


"I'll share my personal experience in case it might encourage anyone to join us. Between my team calls and the ones I made personally before the team was formed, I've made 38 calls. My scripts basically have me asking two questions: 1) Are you voting for Hillary, and 2) if so, would you be interested in volunteering.

Of my 38 calls, only three people have answered the phone. One said he wasn't voting for anyone, and two said they're voting for Hillary. No one wanted to volunteer. Everyone was very nice. The call tool gives you their name and age and so far almost all of my calls have been to older people. You get to choose what state you want to call and the scripts are a little bit different so I actually looked at a few to choose the one I felt most comfortable with. I think they only have you calling people who have voted Democrat in the past, so the chances of getting someone yelling at you are low.
"

You did better than I did in terms of contacts — last Monday, I called almost 100 people to speak to four or so. Three were all strong Clinton supporters; the final was an older Dem guy who replied "The exact opposite" when I asked if we could count on his support. They were Nevada voters, so I'm gonna guess an irreducible Bernie Bro, but who knows.

For almost all of the calls, you're looking to do turnout of your supporters — there's like zero persuasion, except of people who are either true undecided or lean Clinton, and even then it's pretty easy. If someone starts to argue with you, you just get your best phone smile on and thank 'em for their time. It's just a numbers thing — arguing someone into supporting Clinton is going to take more time and predict fewer votes than getting someone who's already on board to make sure to show up. Phone banks are almost always about revving up supporters — there's better ways to make persuasion contacts.
posted by klangklangston at 8:53 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Most of Trump’s supporters say they’ve lost confidence in the basic mechanism of governance in the United States ...to protect their privilege and punish other people for what they do wrong. (Isn't that the basic mechanism for all good White Males?)
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:57 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Most of Trump’s supporters say they’ve lost confidence in the basic mechanism of governance in the United States.

I've been waiting since the 60s to say this to conservatives: "If you don't like it here, leave."

J/K
posted by NorthernLite at 8:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


Most of Trump’s supporters say they’ve lost confidence in the basic mechanism of governance in the United States.

Maybe their party could try voting on things.


Maybe they have to come to terms with the fact that in their current incarnation they can no longer muster a majority coalition.
posted by tclark at 8:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


It'd be interesting to ask the US if it had lost faith in the Constitution. Bet that question would get a very different breaokdown.
posted by Devonian at 9:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


This is some straight up ageist techbro bullshit.

Oh, ffs. I've dealt with mumble number of hacks in the past decade, and I know what I've seen. I've done unpaid on-sites to push through upgrades to secure passwords . I've spent multiple days dealing with people who demanded to be able to use [collegefootballteamnickname-birthyear] to log in to their email. I've had to deal with people who refuse to enable SSL. Let's remember that the entire email server thing w/ HRC extended from wanting to use her BlackBerry.

So don't well-actually me on this shit.
posted by holgate at 9:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [25 favorites]




Most of Trump’s supporters say they’ve lost confidence in the basic mechanism of governance in the United States.

Maybe their party could try voting on things.

Maybe they have to come to terms with the fact that in their current incarnation they can no longer muster a majority coalition.


It's quite like when you're playing cards and the sulkiest kid figures out loss is inevitable, so he announces he's bored and doesn't want to play anymore. If he can't win, we all have to lose.
posted by sallybrown at 9:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [19 favorites]


So it turns out I'm going to be an election judge somewhere in Berkeley. What have I got myself in to?
posted by clorox at 9:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


Some self-examination is in order, should you care to be reflective on the matter.
Because the US Government is supposed to have accountability to tax payers, tech buy-in is very slow moving. That's how the FBI ends up with an ancient computer system not up to the task of handling terror cells in the US on 9/11. It is also how HRC ends up with a private e-mail server. At the time, Blackberries, the tech that the government bought into, could literally not be used to access more than one email account. The answer, obviously, was to throw that tech away to keep people from doing dumb stuff so they could use a single device. But you can't throw away thousands of perfectly good Blackberries in order to make the user experience better because the GAO is looking over your shoulder. So instead you write policies to prevent the things people will naturally want to do. Which some people won't follow because it is inconvenient.
posted by xyzzy at 9:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [20 favorites]


Why does Sean Hannity look so uncomfortable in this photo. Where is Trump's left hand?
posted by humanfont at 9:06 PM on October 14, 2016


"Y'all! Small-town Mississippi paper, the Meridian Star, just endorsed Clinton. If you have a few bucks and a yen to read a small paper from the deep red South, consider buying a subscription. This is big (small) news, and I'm afraid may kill this brave little paper.
Meridian Star
"

Subscribers from all over might be helpful, but a couple other ways you could help is either buying an ad to thank them, or finding one of their advertisers and mail-ordering something — explicitly telling the advertiser that you found them through the Meridian Star.

A small town paper will probably value local relationships more than a distant subscriber. Helping local businesses recognize that world-wide internet attention from outsiders because of their newspaper can benefit them will help ensure that they don't pull their advertising.
posted by klangklangston at 9:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [23 favorites]


When it comes to U.S. democracy, which is closest to your view?

I have never had faith - 6%
I have lost faith - 40%
I have faith - 52%
No answer - 2%


I'm working on a Samuel Beckett/Cheers mashup in which the No Answer 2% respondents sit at a bar that has no windows or doors.
posted by perhapses at 9:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Apologies if this is already upthread:

Willie Nelson joins critics of leaked Donald Trump 'locker room talk' footage
Nelson: 'It's just bad judgement'


As goes Willie, so goes America.

Willie Nelson for President!
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:10 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


dorothyisunderwood: I bet there are a lot of women (and some men) Trump voters thinking "I'm fine about it, it didn't hurt me, why is everyone making such a big deal over this?" Because the alternative is realising again that you have to rewrite your personal history with yet-another-that-was-abuse memory.

Great insight, thanks. Huh. Reminds me of something an older-generation POC in my circles said recently, about younger POCs calling out racism these days: "Sometimes the actual thing being protested hurts less than protesting about it." Which for myself I don't agree with at all, but okay, I can imagine what sort of experiences he may have had (the racist shit, and him trying to say something to people about it, and then the processing of both that he would have had to do) that led him to that conclusion.

In saying something, you make yourself vulnerable to people who have no problem damaging you actively, or damaging you passively through not giving a shit about you. You stick your hope, faith, and trust out there, defenceless, and if people you care for and respect sacrifice it on the altar of their aggression or indifference or trivialization, God yes it hurts. I've learned to deal with it by being emotionally guarded and wary of anybody who hasn't earned my trust.

Related: I just looked up notes I took from Margaret Heffernan's book Willful Blindness: Why We Ignore The Obvious At Our Peril, and these paragraphs may explain some women's reactions too:
[Quote from a therapist about some of her clients:] "Their identity is so tied into the role of being a good mother or a good wife that they have very little sense of self. Putting on an identity like a coat becomes very important to them. And they cannot take that coat off, it would leave them too vulnerable. It is like they've invested themselves in this role and they simply cannot afford to challenge their illusion.” . . .

We all strive to preserve an image of ourselves as consistent, stable, competent, and good. . . . Anything or anyone that threatens that sense of self produces pain that feels just as dangerous and unpleasant as hunger or thirst. A challenge to our big ideas feels life-threatening. And so we strive mightily to reduce the pain, either by ignoring the evidence that proves we are wrong, or by reinterpreting evidence to support us.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 9:12 PM on October 14, 2016 [27 favorites]


I want teleprompter-trashing gifs. Will some kind soul please post them?
posted by rebent at 9:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Scott Adams is so amazingly un-self-aware.
The “octopus” line about Trump is engineered persuasion of the highest order. It makes the story deeply visual and extra-creepy. Godzilla, or someone similarly skilled, is probably behind that word. It’s too engineered for a civilian to concoct during an interview. That’s professional work.
"And what's this 'visit from Auntie Flo' stuff? I've never heard that before. I'm supposed to believe that it was just made up on the spot? That a woman in her seventies might be intelligent and well spoken rather than some bumbling old cat lady? Or that women have conversations with other women, using certain shared imagery and slang (some dating back a century or more, like comparing handsy men to octopuses) to bond with each other over the difficulties and abuse that women alone have to deal with, and that I wouldn't know about the language they use unless I'd made a habit of treating women like human beings and actually listening to them? Please. I'm a hypnotist here."
posted by No-sword at 9:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [51 favorites]


Canada Just Wants To #TellAmericaItsGreat
Enter Canada, with a small, yet poignant show of support during our year of discontent. A Toronto-based creative agency called The Garden has created the "Tell America It's Great" campaign, complete with a hashtag and a video.
Aw thanks you guys. We love you too.
posted by sallybrown at 9:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [45 favorites]


I want teleprompter-trashing gifs. Will some kind soul please post them?

upthread. It's not so dramatic though.
posted by zachlipton at 9:15 PM on October 14, 2016


Be easy on Scott Adams. He has engineer's disease.
posted by My Dad at 9:16 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]




In saying something, you make yourself vulnerable to people who have no problem damaging you actively, or damaging you passively through not giving a shit about you.

It taps into the force multiplier effect of social media, especially Twitter. I have no idea what some of the campaign reporters and campaign staffers have to deal with on a minute-by-minute basis from people who have 3 followers and spend their entire fucking days @ing people with image macro shit, but I'm sure that it's psychologically damaging. Just spending a few days block-mute-reporting the worst people in the replies to their tweets (especially replies to media people with Jewish surnames) is draining.
posted by holgate at 9:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Nick Offerman was recently quoted that Ron Swanson might reluctantly vote for Hillary but more likely do a write in vote for Willie Nelson.

Where is Trump's left hand?
Probably the same place his right hand is here.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Didn't see posted already: will.i.am ft Apl.de.ap and Liane V - GRAB'm by the PU$$Y (Official Music Video)

That's awesome - sampling / remixing Chuck Brown? LOVE IT.
posted by god hates math at 9:21 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


In semi-related news, all of the three big name potential bidders to buy Twitter (Google, Disney and Salesforce.com) have decided "uh, no, we're not really interested". Of course, if Trump actually HAD some money, he'd buy it himself; guess he'll have to ask his pal Peter Thiel to front him for it.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Encryption + bio authentication (thumb, eyeball) are the best solutions

Bio-authentication doesn't have a 5th amendment block. And unless the courts decide that it does, we'll continue to see low-quality passwords used by anyone who is concerned about potential criminal accusations - even if they know those accusations would be entirely false.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Be easy on Scott Adams. He has engineer's disease.

Please stop this. It's not clever, or funny, or accurate.
posted by madmethods at 9:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [28 favorites]


So, here's the crowd at this evening's Trump rally in Charlotte.

Not a great picture, but you get the idea. A small crowd (I'd guess under 1,000) in a corner of a cavernous convention center.

I think he's just down to the deplorables at this point. There was, in fact, at least one toddler there wearing a "Proud to be Deplorable" t-shirt. Also, a woman told me that she supports Trump because "I don't want the Muslims getting in here, not even the "good" ones."

They had a group of "Women for Trump" come out on stage before Trump spoke. An African American woman spoke on their behalf. She was one of only 3 or 4 Women of Color in the whole room, as far as I could tell. Part of her schtick was something about getting aboard "...the Trump Train...Choo Choo!" Someone else did the same thing at some point, so I guess "Trump Train...Choo Choo!" is a thing now.

For the love of all that is good and holy please let this campaign end.
posted by Cookiebastard at 9:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [44 favorites]


Eggmentum in Idaho! - 24 hours after announcing a volunteer gathering for @Evan_McMullin in Idaho Falls. This is unbelievable.

The expressions on their faces look like "Why are we here staring at a table full of breakfast foods?"
posted by cashman at 9:31 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


An African American woman spoke on their behalf. She was one of only 3 or 4 Women of Color in the whole room, as far as I could tell. Part of her schtick was something about getting aboard "...the Trump Train...Choo Choo!

That's Trump surrogate team of sisters Diamond & Silk (Lynnette Hardaway and Rochelle Richardson).
posted by sallybrown at 9:31 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Actually, "Trump Train...Choo Choo!" is kind of dorky and normal, like "We Like Ike." I want to look at this one little thing through a pinhole and pretend the rest of this nightmare isn't happening.
posted by argybarg at 9:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


If you enjoy your pinhole view, then don't look at the first Google Image Search result for 'Trump Train' because it ain't normal or ok at all.

Result #5 is pretty amazing though.
posted by zachlipton at 9:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


That picture of trump on a tank has to be a troll.
posted by Yowser at 9:41 PM on October 14, 2016


I mean, it's right out of Idiocracy. Complete with advertising for "Big Gulp"
posted by Yowser at 9:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


The tank picture comes from this freep thread, which has some even better ones, including the train going out of control with pepe as the engineer. It's a giant troll.

You can buy a print on Etsy
posted by zachlipton at 9:45 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


McMuffin has never been polled in Idaho, who knows, maybe Idaho was mistakenly marked as an all day biscuit market, but really they've been clamoring for McMuffins this whole time.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


generally older
...
So don't well-actually me on this shit


Whatever. Your words. I only invited you to reflect on them. A description of user behavior which did not highlight age would not have prompted my observation.
posted by mwhybark at 9:49 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]




@michaelianblack: "Apprentice contestant and Trump Supporter Jennifer Murphy just accidentally buried her guy on CNN by admitting he kissed her on the lips."

And she said he surprised her doing it. But tried to recover saying it didn't bother her. This was earlier this evening.
posted by chris24 at 9:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [38 favorites]


You might really enjoy the animated version. (I posted this in the threads a couple of months ago and I am no less astounded by it today.)
posted by mochapickle at 9:53 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Gosh, with all that money Freerepublic raises, their website sure has changed since 2001!
posted by Yowser at 9:54 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump surrogate team of sisters Diamond & Silk (Lynnette Hardaway and Rochelle Richardson).

Okay, you made me find their YouTube channel, and.... well, now I know that's a thing that I didn't know was a thing before.

I am not certain I am in any way better off than in my earlier, blissful ignorance, but I do know that I am going to have some very confused nightmares tonight.

(All of which is a longwinded way of saying whaaaaaaaaaat?)
posted by rokusan at 9:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Bill Clinton The Lady Killer EPIC SIZE 24x36" Poster

Why is Bill astride a nuclear-powered crocodile? Is this a reference to something? Have I forgotten the 90s already?

Larger version; I remain confused.
posted by rokusan at 9:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


How appropriate that the Trump Train hosts images on Slim(e)g.
posted by nicebookrack at 9:59 PM on October 14, 2016


Bio-authentication doesn't have a 5th amendment block. And unless the courts decide that it does, we'll continue to see low-quality passwords used by anyone who is concerned about potential criminal accusations - even if they know those accusations would be entirely false.
That's an important point that I should have addressed. Bio protects you from telling social engineers your dumb email password. It does not stop you from opening trojan laden .xls files from people with misspelled e-mail addresses nor does it protect you from the law. But if you use encryption that is password protected, the law can't get you and xls guy will have to capture you typing in your password to decrypt your email.

I can only hope that fears of leaks will finally get people to deal with security hygiene.
posted by xyzzy at 9:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


That Diamond and Silk Table Topic 47 is just... I don't even have words.

Law and Order (Trump style) good, stop and frisk good. What in the fuck.
posted by Yowser at 10:00 PM on October 14, 2016


Richard Nixon fighting a Sabertooth Tiger HQ

With brass knuckles, no less. Tricky Dick can't win unless he's cheating.
posted by Slap*Happy at 10:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


You've jogged my memory on the pedophilia heavy Slimg.

The NAMBLA mystery deepens.

Oh god I feel dirty saying that. Jokes like that aren't funny when they intersect with real life. When is Trump's first court date anyways?
posted by Yowser at 10:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Willie Nelson [on Trump's videotape]: 'It's just bad judgement'

Oh, Willie, I.... I just can't. It's too easy.

I love you, Willie.
posted by rokusan at 10:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


The crocodile just happened to be in the shot; it was there to eat and/or blow up Ronald McDonald (background left). It doesn't mean anything.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 10:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think Bill Clinton with the bionic crocodile wins.. Whatever this is.
posted by Yowser at 10:05 PM on October 14, 2016


That Bill Clinton image reminds me of The Ultimate Showdown for some reason. And now I'm going to bed...
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]




When is Trump's first court date anyways?

Trump University class-action fraud: November 28 (which may be why he mentioned that as the date to vote)

Civil lawsuit for the alleged rape of a 13 year old: December 16
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm actually fairly disappointed that Willie Nelson didn't say unequivocally "what he's describing is sexual assault, and that's not okay." Even if he doesn't want to endorse Hillary Clinton, I'd like him to be on the side of "that's wrong" not "that's bad publicity".

Oh, Willie.
posted by Lexica at 10:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


@DLin71: If you rearrange the letters of Trump’s character witness Gilberthorpe, you get “Blithe Groper”
posted by chris24 at 10:16 PM on October 14, 2016 [34 favorites]


The Ultimate Showdown reminds me that the accusation that Hillary is a Lemon Demon is totally bogus (It's Neil Cicieraga)
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


One of my strongest early political memories is the replay of Hillary Clinton talking about a 'vast right-wing conspiracy' over and over and over and over. Trump is literally accusing her of a vast left-wing conspiracy. Trump's fucking Mirror, guys.

False equivalence. There actually was a (maybe not so vast) right-wing conspiracy against the Clintons.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [21 favorites]


Trump's refusal to accept intelligence briefing on Russia stuns experts

Several former intelligence officials interviewed this week believe that Trump is either willfully disputing intelligence assessments, has a blind spot on Russia, or perhaps doesn't understand the nonpartisan traditions and approach of intelligence professionals.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [74 favorites]


False equivalence. There actually was a (maybe not so vast) right-wing conspiracy against the Clintons.

It was half-vast.
posted by Cookiebastard at 10:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [31 favorites]


has a blind spot on Russia

That's a pretty whitewashed way of saying, "is an active FSB asset".
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [37 favorites]


Several former intelligence officials interviewed this week believe that Trump is either willfully disputing intelligence assessments, has a blind spot on Russia, or perhaps doesn't understand the nonpartisan traditions and approach of intelligence professionals.

False trichotomy.
posted by dersins at 11:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


When is Trump's first court date anyways?

Adding to the list, MONDAY is the deadline for The Donald J. Trump Foundation to get right with the NY AG's office.
posted by mikelieman at 11:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


In Capitalist America, Monday drops oppo on YOU!
posted by Yowser at 11:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Are you fired up?
Are you ready to go?
posted by rp at 11:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


The tank picture comes from this freep thread

Pretty sure it's older than that; sharpwriter on deviantart has been doing stuff like this for a while now. Which reminds me that I really need to send him some money for unauthorizedly appropriating one of his pictures for biscotti's citizenship cake.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]




has a blind spot on Russia

Over in Trump-land, his supporters are citing articles like this one about a possible Cyber strike on Russia and seriously arguing that Trump needs to step in *before the election* to prevent a war from breaking out. A lot of Trump-is-our-only-hope rhetoric at work.
posted by frumiousb at 12:50 AM on October 15, 2016


Mod note: One deleted. Totally get the rage thing, but take a breath and let's skip the genital-size insults and similar, and just generally avoid youtube comments-level gross stuff.
posted by taz (staff) at 1:11 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


When is Trump's first court date anyways?

Since it's so hard to keep track, I created a Google Calendar of Upcoming Donald J. Trump Court Dates

If anyone has more than the 3 currently on it, LMK and I'll update it.
posted by mikelieman at 1:17 AM on October 15, 2016 [18 favorites]


"It defies logic," retired Gen. Michael Hayden, former director of the CIA and the National Security Agency, said of Trump's pronouncements.

Ha. You, sir, have apparently not been paying attention to the campaign. Defying logic is practically Trump's entire platform.
posted by threeturtles at 2:12 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


Where is the Hillary poster with her going all Joan of Arc with a sword on the back of a dragon? I'd even settle for a Mr & Mrs Smith send up with Bill. (He can wear the leg holster.)
posted by asteria at 2:28 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Still catching up, but i'm surprised that no one has made a trump-related sign saying:

"I AM NOT A CUCK"

I could actually see that going both ways, ala 'deplorables'.
posted by lkc at 2:31 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


One because that word is nasty. Two, Clinton herself said "deplorables" while cuck isn't something Trump has said. I'm sure he thinks it.
posted by Justinian at 2:35 AM on October 15, 2016


Can I just say, I really hope next week's oppo ahead of the debate is about something a little less immediately harrowing?

Fat chance, I know.
posted by E. Whitehall at 2:51 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


It could always be more tax returns!
posted by asteria at 3:03 AM on October 15, 2016


I bet there's more financial and business shoes to drop. Maybe the foundation gets shut down.

Nobody's claiming to have been his coke dealer in 1981 yet, and that always has to happen at some point. So we have that to look forward to. On the lighter side.
posted by rhizome at 3:04 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


One because that word is nasty.

For those as unaware as me of this term's newfound nastiness, here's a deep dive: D. Schwartz, Why Angry White Men Love Calling People “Cucks”
posted by progosk at 3:04 AM on October 15, 2016 [9 favorites]




It defies logic...

The reasonable reply is, perhaps

...when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
-Arthur Conan Doyle via Sherlock Holmes

Though, I mean come on the writers *have* been totally craven and 2016 has been a wicked shit show. The very concept that the Donald is a Russian 'asset' is... so extravagantly improbable that you want to say it is impossible but you can't, not with absolute certainty.

The simpler solution, and fully in accordance with Trump's razor, is that he's too fucking stupid and ... no, his constantly defending of Russia against any malfeasance presses the grotesquely improbable conclusion...

Yeah, we need a new team of writers. This is all starting to sound like an episode of 'Alf.'
posted by From Bklyn at 3:34 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


It's got to hurt like hell to be rejected by an entire nation. I think Trump deserves every bit of pain that he'll go through when he loses but what I don't get is why he's increasing the the hurt by behaving so gracelessly. I know that sounds naive but this spectacle of him punching himself in the face is hard to watch. On the other hand, I am enjoying it.
posted by rdr at 3:55 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


Donald Trump’s ‘international bankers’ speech leaves some uneasy

I've read what some actual white supremacists are saying about this speech. For all the hand wringing about what exactly he was talking about, they picked up its meaning perfectly fine. I saw one neo-Nazi article calling him, approvingly, "literally Hitler" as a result of this speech. They don't care if he wins or loses at this point; they know "the war" has started and they're damn pleased with themselves to have a major Presidential candidate talking like this. And I'm terrified.
posted by zachlipton at 3:57 AM on October 15, 2016 [31 favorites]


Weirdo 7am Saturday morning tweet from Trump: "100% fabricated and made-up charges, pushed strongly by the media and the Clinton Campaign, may poison the minds of the American Voter. FIX!" --@realDonaldTrump
posted by zachlipton at 4:00 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]



Why is it the GoP still? By now it should be the PoT: Party of Trump.
posted by esto-again at 4:16 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I've read what some actual white supremacists are saying about this speech. For all the hand wringing about what exactly he was talking about, they picked up its meaning perfectly fine. I saw one neo-Nazi article calling him, approvingly, "literally Hitler" as a result of this speech.

Let’s just say it: Trump sounds more and more like Hitler. Maybe not like 1941 Hitler or 1934 Hitler, but uncomfortably like 1922 Hitler.

Congratulations, Donald, you've Godwinned an American presidential campaign.
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:16 AM on October 15, 2016 [33 favorites]


My shrink made an interesting point yesterday:

Trump is being defeated as a disgraced candidate. The ideas that power his campaign will not have been repudiated, only the man.

Then my shrink went on to make the shrink-y point that Trump's supporters, rather than going back to, um, whatever Trump supporters will actually do, will feel more victimized than they already are, because they'll see their ideas not as beaten, but rather that their ideas had a fatally flawed spokesperson

So, yay.
posted by angrycat at 4:43 AM on October 15, 2016 [47 favorites]


angrycat: Yes, that's what terrifies me about this whole situation more than anything - the fact that he is not being shut down based on the ideas, but based on -him-. I can only predict that 2020 is going to be even uglier, with a more savvy candidate willing to espouse the same hateful and isolationist policies stepping in to fill the vacuum ... One who might actually win the election. Unfortunately, we won't be able to let down our guard after the election - instead, we're just going to have to fight more.
posted by jferg at 4:50 AM on October 15, 2016 [11 favorites]


That Etsy shop linked upthread looks like what would happen if Chuck Tingle was an editorial cartoonist.
posted by pxe2000 at 4:52 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'm really disturbed by women I know, who would call themselves feminist activists, like that is their whole main THING, and they haven't said word one about the Trump tape or allegations or taken part in the conversation at all.
threeturtles, maybe it's because they can't.

I am not one of the women you are talking about. But since the trumptape last week, I have been able to go to work, read these election threads, and lie in bed, interspersed with crying and retching.

It reminds me of when I was eleven and found out what the word 'molest' meant, and realised what happened to me when I was six.

I can barely post this comment.

Maybe the women of which you speak are feeling like I do?
posted by mgrrl at 4:55 AM on October 15, 2016 [105 favorites]


You know, a lot of people have been referring to recent revelations as opposition research and wondering what else they've got and when it's going to drop.

I don't think it is.

Alicia Machado -- that was opposition research. Clinton knew about it, dropped it on him in a debate, then released a video about it immediately after. Great work, caught him completely off guard with his own history. The contractors he's stiffed? Some of that came out, or at least got much more widely disseminated, as a result of opposition research. The Clinton campaign found out about some of them, sought them out, and asked them to go on record.

The rest of the recent stuff, though? Someone with access to a few of his tax returns mailed them to the Times. Someone at NBC leaked the "I like sexual assault" tape to the Washington Post. The women who have come forward to say that he assaulted them are doing it of their own volition because he lied about what he did to them in front of millions of people. The closest thing to "opposition research" has been reporters hearing him say in an interview that he likes walking in on naked pageant contestants in the dressing room and them going to some contestants and asking if that ever happened (answer: yup.) Even that didn't come from his political opponents, it was just an obvious question to ask once that comment started making the rounds. And just about everything else is literally, "A thing Donald Trump said aloud himself just now while we all watched", like the Central Park Five statement.

His whole, "The Clintons are behind all of this!" thing just sounds nuts to me. Hillary Clinton (not "the Clintons" -- why does he keep acting like he's running against Bill, too?) has pretty much been sitting back and letting the ongoing implosion continue to implode.

This isn't "opposition research". There isn't a file somewhere of stuff labeled "release one of these videos each week of October". This is all on top of the opposition research. This is just a candidate so friggin' horrific that people keep coming forward to tell their own horrific stories about him. Over and over and over.
posted by kyrademon at 4:58 AM on October 15, 2016 [75 favorites]


Ha! "I am not a cuck" sounds like "I am not a crook." Nixon was also known for waving around the "V for victory" hand sign. The ancient "V" horns behind someone's head, so prevalent in photos, is posited by some to mean "this person is a cuckold." It all comes full circle! What does it all mean?! (Probably that this election has made me absolutely loopy.)
posted by thebrokedown at 5:01 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


I think the tax return might have been opposition research. I'm guessing that there's more pieces of oppo waiting on the shelf but Trump hasn't gone for a long enough between self destructive acts for them to drop them.
posted by rdr at 5:06 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


In all his years grabbing pussy, Trump never got a handful of their "whatever from wherever" or whatever his gibberish was? Hygiene products aren't fool proof.

For some reason this has me thinking about pressure sensitive dye packs with "bank heist" ink ... not that I'd want that near my bikini area.
posted by tilde at 5:06 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]



So it turns out I'm going to be an election judge somewhere in Berkeley. What have I got myself in to?



In my experience, you're there from open to shut, to sign things and witness breaking of seals on stuff, countersifning tallies, witnessing assisted voters, ruling with an opposite party rep on voter challenges and use of secondary identification cards.
posted by tilde at 5:08 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


The ancient "V" horns behind someone's head, so prevalent in photos, is posited by some to mean "this person is a cuckold."

It... wait what.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 5:36 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


This makes me furious

WaPo Group accuses Mike Pence of voter suppression after state police raid registration program in Indiana
On Oct. 4, one week before the state’s deadline to register to vote, state police raided the Indianapolis office of the Indiana Voter Registration Project, seizing computers, cellphones and records. The state police launched an investigation in late August after elections officials in Hendricks County, a suburb of Indianapolis, alerted authorities to some applications that seemed amiss. A spokesman for the state police told local news media that “at least 10” applications were confirmed to be fraudulent.

Varoga estimates that 45,000 people, most of them African Americans, might not be able to vote on Nov. 8 because their applications were seized during the raid. [...]“They singled out one African American male, put him in handcuffs,” says one woman. “They lined us up against the wall, treated us like criminals,” says another woman.[...]

Varoga said the Indiana Voter Registration Project was launched in May and had hoped to sign up 50,000 voters by the Oct. 11 deadline. He thinks they would have reached the goal had the state police not shut down the program. Patriot Majority has conducted voter registration drives in 12 other states Varoga said, and “in no other state have we seen the state police brought in to harass canvassers, to go homes of canvassers and threaten them with arrest and demanding they take polygraph tests.”
Handcuffs? Polygraph tests? What the hell, Indiana? Like many of you other MeFiers I have been registering voters. If things work out in Indiana for the Republicans can we expect to see this sort of intimidation in NC? Will I be put in handcuffs for signing up minorities to vote? Bring it on, because I don't mind going to jail for doing the right thing, the AMERICAN thing. I'm a bigger patriot than that faker Mike Pence and I believe in Democracy.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:51 AM on October 15, 2016 [116 favorites]


Yeah, there are a number of Shakespearean plays that have jokes about putting horns on someone's head; they're references to being cuckolded.
posted by EarBucket at 5:51 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]




@realDonaldTrump: "Hillary Clinton should have been prosecuted and should be in jail. Instead she is running for president in what looks like a rigged election"

Fuck this piece of shit. And more importantly, fuck Ryan and any Republicans who don't denounce this attack on our democracy.
posted by chris24 at 5:55 AM on October 15, 2016 [32 favorites]


The deal with Scott Adams as I see it: I think his first few blog posts about Trump and persuasion techniques were honest observations based on a skill he went to some effort to develop and which most of us didn't (because face it, most of us aren't assholes who think it would be cool to manipulate other people, but whatevs.) What he said then is consistent with what others have also said and with what I personally know about general propaganda techniques.

But then the reaction steamrolled him and he realized he had a tiger by the tail, so being Scott Adams he decided to play with it and he's basically been trolling ever since. I think you can date the transition pretty precisely to the post where he disabled blog comments.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:56 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


In this brief lull, in the November issue of Vanity Fair the Editor's Letter mentions the 1993 White House Correspondents' Association dinner in which Graydon Carter invited Donald Trump to be his "novelty guest", a "tabloid oddity of the moment". He also invited a Swedish model and seated her next to him. This woman, who I don't think has come forward on her own but this story was reprinted in the Daily Fail yesterday so she might, got up after 45 minutes to beg Carter to change her seat because Trump was commenting on the figures ("tits") of the other female guests and she just couldn't stand to listen to it anymore. "He is the most vulgar man I have ever met," she said.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:58 AM on October 15, 2016 [21 favorites]


Writer Jared Yates Sexton made it into the Trump rally in Charlotte last night and live tweeted the experience. (Apologies - it's not threaded or storified so you'll have to read from here forwards.) A warning: he describes it as "the most concentrated misogyny and examples of rape culture I will ever see." What he describes is incredibly vile.
posted by bluecore at 6:01 AM on October 15, 2016 [31 favorites]


Ah, Pence, continuing his role as the quieter, strategically terrifying veep. Trump brags about not telling you and exhorts you to trust him. Pence tells you and expects you to like it.

In a way I'm glad hitching himself so closely to Trump seems to have affected his career; while I'd wish in a perfect world that his attempt to attach undue burden to miscarriages and the ilk would have him reviled from all sides, association with Trump seems the next best thing for the majority.

2018 and 2020 does concern me, though. He's just too well-practiced from talk radio, and this cycle is really bringing out the entire thing where people demonstrate repeatedly the standards they are willing to walk past and accept.
posted by E. Whitehall at 6:02 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


> "I think the tax return might have been opposition research."

Eh, maybe, but I don't think so. Much has been made of Clinton bringing up the possibility that he doesn't pay taxes in the first debate. But that was already a known theory (because of the casino license application) that she listed with a bunch of other known theories (ties to Russia, no charitable donations). Trump was the one who idiotically drew extra attention to it with his "That makes me smart" comment. (No one attacks Donald Trump more effectively than Donald Trump.)
posted by kyrademon at 6:06 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


> "Writer Jared Yates Sexton made it into the Trump rally in Charlotte last night and live tweeted the experience. (Apologies - it's not threaded or storified so you'll have to read from here forwards.)"

Oh my god.

The blood literally drained away from my face as I was reading through that.
posted by kyrademon at 6:14 AM on October 15, 2016 [14 favorites]


It's got to hurt like hell to be rejected by an entire nation.

Nah. IANAP, but if Trump's half the narcissistic sociopath he acts like, "hurting" is for other people, people with those... "feelings."

That's a big part of the whole problem, actually—dude would rather bring down an entire fucking nation than to admit that he's not as great as he thinks he is.
posted by Rykey at 6:15 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


If things work out in Indiana for the Republicans can we expect to see this sort of intimidation in NC?
I think we should expect this sort of voter intimidation in any swing state or district where people of color hold the balance of power. It's a strategy, and it's not going away. It's also a huge reason that the Supreme Court is so important: we need justices who recognize the importance of voting rights if we're going to fight this thing effectively.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:20 AM on October 15, 2016 [11 favorites]


Kyrademon yes. It was so appalling. The mysogyny is astounding "how can a woman lead an army" and the repeated accusations on whoredom. What really got me though was the thinly veiled reference to lynching protesters. I was ready to stop reading, then he said "I've gotten into the rally and the first speaker is up soon". It hadn't even started yet. I read a bit further, but not much. I honestly can't comprehend that level of hate.
posted by Measured Out my Life in Coffeespoons at 6:20 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


I read those tweets too.

I think the only thing you can say to that vileness is: that's not my America. Not by a long shot.
posted by Sublimity at 6:22 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


I love that Donald was at a real-life "Dinner for Idiots," for some reason.
posted by Yowser at 6:27 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


I can only predict that 2020 is going to be even uglier, with a more savvy candidate willing to espouse the same hateful and isolationist policies stepping in to fill the vacuum ... One who might actually win the election.

This election is like the easy mode of rejecting fascism, and we are still awfully close to fucking it up. It's a time of relative stability, and the standard bearer of the other side is a cartoonishly horrible, dumb-as-rocks, rapey, race-baiting, misogynist douchefuck who is, if not actually colluding with our geopolitical adversaries, then is at least benefiting from their interference. And yet ~40% of the population is still supporting this clownbag. Throw in a recession, a successful terror attack, and suddenly it seems plausible that he'd be elected.

Actually, we did fuck it up, insofar as one of the major parties nominated this piece of shit, but we get a do-over because: easy mode.
posted by logicpunk at 6:33 AM on October 15, 2016 [71 favorites]


Trump says the election is rigged — and his supporters are furious

"And if Trump doesn’t win, some are even openly talking about violent rebellion and assassination, as fantastical and unhinged as that may seem.

“If she’s in office, I hope we can start a coup. She should be in prison or shot. That’s how I feel about it,” Dan Bowman, a 50-year-old contractor, said of Hillary Clinton, the Democratic nominee. “We’re going to have a revolution and take them out of office if that’s what it takes. There’s going to be a lot of bloodshed. But that’s what it’s going to take. . . . I would do whatever I can for my country.”"

Read the whole scary thing. Again, fuck Ryan and every Republican for aiding and abetting this.
posted by chris24 at 6:35 AM on October 15, 2016 [87 favorites]


If Paul Ryan had a spine and a more populist streak id be legit afraid of 2020.
posted by ian1977 at 6:36 AM on October 15, 2016


Oh, I think this is a heterarchical network of loosely and tightly coordinated oppo work. The fire has grown beyond its seeds, but the rhythm is too good to be accidental. It's like watching a duet. Except Astaire is doing some late-Brando, Chaplin-in-The-Dictator work and Ginger is doing everything backwards in high heels (and dubbing her own taps), while continually baiting him into punching himself in the face.

Here's Ben Carson telling TV producers to shut off his (female, BBC) interviewer's mic.

But think about Ailes and Trump as an axis. That, to me, is the long con here.
posted by sixswitch at 6:37 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


If push comes to shove, 99% of these assholes will expect other people to do the killing and dying, but all it will take is a few to fuck everything up beyond repair.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:37 AM on October 15, 2016 [32 favorites]


So I went to see David Sedaris last night; it was some much needed hilarity right now! Of course someone asked what he thought about the election. He lives abroad and is usually in the states for elections doing book tours. He's been traveling via car all over the eastern US for about ten days. He said what really struck him this time is that he's so used to every public space, highway medians, etc. being littered with election signs, and this time around he's just not seeing them. He said it was very surprising and actually eerie. I'm in downtown DC where signs aren't really a thing, but I've had friends from the DC suburbs say the same thing. What do you think that's about? I can think of a few possibilities:

*The Trump campaign just isn't organized enough to get that kind of work done.
*The Hillary campaign has decided that signs just aren't worth it and aren't going down that road (as some upthread have said).
*People realize how tense this election is and, knowing that they have to live and work next to these people for the next 20 years, they're not wanting to stir the pot.

I've really been enjoying the sign reports upthread, and recognize that not everyone may see this change. Is anyone else noticing this and what do you think it's about?
posted by kinsey at 6:41 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


GOP States Keep Ignoring Court Orders to Restore Voting Rights: Wisconsin, Ohio, Texas, and North Carolina won’t stop suppressing the vote.

But it's "rigged" against Trump.
posted by chris24 at 6:41 AM on October 15, 2016 [78 favorites]


WaPo Group accuses Mike Pence of voter suppression after state police raid registration program in Indiana

Mike Pence is the human embodiment of everything that's wrong with the Republican Party: eager to disenfranchise voters for political gain; contemptuous of the rights and dignity of women, queer people, and people of color; and willing to embrace a fascist if it gets him what he wants.

If Pence still has a viable career after Trump is gone, we'll know we haven't done enough to fix the problems with our culture, and with the Republican Party, that this election is making so manifest.
posted by galaxy rise at 6:43 AM on October 15, 2016 [23 favorites]


Writer Jared Yates Sexton made it into the Trump rally in Charlotte last night and live tweeted the experience. (Apologies - it's not threaded or storified so you'll have to read from here forwards.) A warning: he describes it as "the most concentrated misogyny and examples of rape culture I will ever see." What he describes is incredibly vile.

This is really shocking, even by the standards of this election. I don't think Obama ever faced anything like this.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:44 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


From the Boston Globe article: “If she’s in office, I hope we can start a coup. She should be in prison or shot. That’s how I feel about it,” Dan Bowman, a 50-year-old contractor, said of Hillary Clinton, the Democratic nominee. “We’re going to have a revolution and take them out of office if that’s what it takes. There’s going to be a lot of bloodshed. But that’s what it’s going to take. . . . I would do whatever I can for my country.”

How do you not get a visit from the Secret Service for this?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:45 AM on October 15, 2016 [96 favorites]


"There’s going to be a lot of bloodshed. But that’s what it’s going to take. . . . I would do whatever I can for my country.”

We had to destroy the country in order to save it?
posted by Slothrup at 6:45 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Another tidbit from the Globe article:

“Trump said to watch you precincts. I’m going to go, for sure,” said Steve Webb, a 61-year-old carpenter from Fairfield, Ohio.

“I’ll look for . . . well, it’s called racial profiling. Mexicans. Syrians. People who can’t speak American,” he said. “I’m going to go right up behind them. I’ll do everything legally. I want to see if they are accountable. I’m not going to do anything illegal. I’m going to make them a little bit nervous.”
posted by chris24 at 6:46 AM on October 15, 2016 [53 favorites]


At some point the task will be to confront the fascism head on. Only the entire GOP leadership is implicated in it. Just a sea of cowards who put party above country.

How...seriously, how do you deal with a cancer like that?
posted by schadenfrau at 6:46 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


Writer Jared Yates Sexton made it into the Trump rally in Charlotte last night and live tweeted the experience.

Jesus fucking Christ.

I tell you what, I am done having any sympathy for these delusional fucks and I am done being told they can be reached or what the fuck ever if some middle ground can be found. They are scum, pure and simple.
posted by Artw at 6:48 AM on October 15, 2016 [50 favorites]


There are always a percentage of cranks who respond to every setback by muttering about time to water the tree of liberty and Civil War II has begun and keep your powder dry. These are also the ones who are convinced that the Silent Majority approves of this and the armed forces approve of this and once the Grand Revolution begins, they will use their guns and their overwhelming numbers to simply sweep over America and drive all the hippies and nonwhite people into the sea.

Luckily, (a) they are so wrong that it degrades the word 'wrong' to use it in that context and (b) these people are fuck-up-a-grilled-cheese-sandwich stupid. One of the few good things about domestic terrorism is that those sufficiently imbalanced to desire it are rarely stable and smart enough to pull it off.

However... do not underestimate the damage one crank can do. Ask Gabby Giffords about that. You're lucky you can still ask her. Or the people in Las Vegas. Or your local Somali refugees in Kansas.

"If you see something, say something" isn't just about people who don't look like the locals.
posted by delfin at 6:48 AM on October 15, 2016 [27 favorites]


“Trump said to watch you precincts. I’m going to go, for sure,” said Steve Webb, a 61-year-old carpenter from Fairfield, Ohio.

“I’ll look for . . . well, it’s called racial profiling. Mexicans. Syrians. People who can’t speak American,” he said. “I’m going to go right up behind them. I’ll do everything legally. I want to see if they are accountable. I’m not going to do anything illegal. I’m going to make them a little bit nervous.”


I think we all know who's not speaking American here, Steve.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 6:51 AM on October 15, 2016 [123 favorites]


Oh, I reacted without seeing that Silver was trolling. You people. You didnt REAL or FAKE.

But this tweet wasn't straightforward [REAL] or [FAKE]. More like:

[FAKE image][REAL humor]

or

[SATIRE]

It's getting really tough to distinguish these days. Poe's Law, ya'all.
posted by zakur at 6:52 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Charlotte Observer: Why we’re not endorsing Pat McCrory for the first time in 25 years: After the 2014 mid-term elections, we wrote an editorial suggesting to McCrory things he should do to win re-election in 2016. “Stay away from lightning-rod social issues. They’re a political loser in a purple state, and a distraction from those ‘very complex problems’ you hope to solve.”

Governor, meet lightning rod. McCrory rushed to sign House Bill 2 on March 23, hours after the House and Senate rammed it through. North Carolina’s reputation has been melting ever since. McCrory adamantly defends the discriminatory measure and dismisses the NCAA, the ACC, scores of business executives and others who have condemned the legislation. It was a hateful and self-defeating bill, and it will be McCrory’s legacy

posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:53 AM on October 15, 2016 [39 favorites]


How do you not get a visit from the Secret Service for this?

Very often, you do. But these days I imagine there's a lot of triage going on because even the Secret Service field ops have their manpower limits.

I am actually surprised, and greatly relieved, that we have reached the twilight of Barack Obama's terms and while some people have plotted to kill him, their own ineptitude and the Secret Service's and law enforcement's competency has avoided a "live fire" event where Obama had to duck and cover. That is how it is supposed to work and Hillary must receive the same level of protection. But I fear for Congresspeople, state officials, local officials, judges, Letters to the Editor authors, you name it who draw the attention of the wrong shithead and don't have any inkling that they're being targeted. They will be the collateral damage from this rousing of rabble and these false outcries of fraud.
posted by delfin at 6:58 AM on October 15, 2016 [19 favorites]


AM Joy just started with a black screen with the statement:

"Last night the Donald Trump campaign canceled all surrogates scheduled on AM Joy.

Enjoy the show."

I WILL
posted by schadenfrau at 7:02 AM on October 15, 2016 [58 favorites]


Trump on sex assault allegations, "I am a victim."

AILES: You should tell 'em you're the victim.
BANNON: (mouth full of sour cream) Yeah!
posted by petebest at 7:02 AM on October 15, 2016 [27 favorites]


Alan Cole had an interesting tweetstorm on Kellyanne this morning. Storified.
posted by Talez at 7:07 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


Calm down everybody. If you're a journalist and you want to find an overheated moron to say he wants to shoot Hillary Clinton, you can. You always can.

The crowds at Trump's rallies are thinning out. There are not militias forming in town squares. The American people are very hard to organize, espeicially by unappealingly stupid prople.

And Donald Trump is very strongly getting his ass kicked. Take a look at Charlie Cook. He's a very cautious and non-partisan handicapper. What does he say? "This race is over."

Now I know the hornet's nest can be nasty and the hate is hard to bear. But this is like the emotional turmoil, the big family fight, right before the abuser finally gets kicked out of the house. He promises he'll have his revenge, he's going to make everyone suffer. But don't be fainthearted. Kick the fucker out, stabilize, and things will be fine. Or at least there is no other way for things to be fine.
posted by argybarg at 7:13 AM on October 15, 2016 [40 favorites]


I've posted about it here a couple times before but my back deck looks over the site of a lone wolf domestic terrorism incident (three LEO killed in the line of duty). This was 2009, a few months about Obama was inaugurated and the perp (currently on PA death row) was convinced Obama was going to take his guns. He was a white supremacist and all around dumbfuck living with his mom. He intentionally ambushed and targeted police. There was a SWAT shoot out for hours (at the time I didn't live in this house, but another one a couple of blocks away).

While I do tend to agree that 99.9% of these people really can't actually be fucked to do anything more than talk big, all it takes is a couple. And no one in this guy's family really did shit about his known stockpiling of weaponry and anti - government rhetoric, probably because they mostly agreed with him except for the actually doing it part. His bestie had the audacity to go on tv later, after three people half been murdered, to claim that really he was not a bad guy and this was sooooo surprising that he'd do this. And then you go look at his social media and he's all over Stormfront and shit. Oh yeah, totally awesome dude. Very upstanding.

We coddle these people at our peril.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:16 AM on October 15, 2016 [94 favorites]


@ppppolls: In Florida 88% of Clinton voters actually like her, only 82% of Trump voters like him. Lots of the enthusiasm CW in this race is off
posted by chris24 at 7:18 AM on October 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


There are not militias forming in town squares.

No, just in secret - Militia members arrested in alleged plot targeting Muslims
posted by zakur at 7:18 AM on October 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


I'm not worried about losing or revolution. I'm pissed that Ryan et al are so craven that they're letting this anger/craziness build that will end up hurting someone.
posted by chris24 at 7:21 AM on October 15, 2016 [11 favorites]


I think the militias will be energized when Trump loses. I think lone gunmen will have their episodes. I'm terribly sad about that. But I do not believe we are watching a popular uprising or wave of bloodshed, or a fundamental shift into an insecure state.
posted by argybarg at 7:22 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


AM Joy just started with a black screen with the statement:

"Last night the Donald Trump campaign canceled all surrogates scheduled on AM Joy.

So is this Trump's plan? Can't defend it among an avalanche of women telling your 'grab' stories, so pull all your people under the guise of "the media is being unfair to me"?

It also helps him hide from interviews that usually, if my memory is correct, ramp up leading up to the election. Interviews with 60 minutes, interviews with local media outlets, etc. He's going to do what everyone supposed, and direct them to his shitty new tv venture, isn't he.
posted by cashman at 7:26 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


I just want to throw in with the exhausted women who have been trying to keep our heads above water this week.

I won't go into explaining why right now having a woman's body (which like most womens', has been touched without consent before) at the center of public political discourse makes you feel like a goddamn tuning fork, sensitive to the social world.

Anyway - you're not alone, I'm not alone (women). Please group hug. This shit is important, even if your colleagues, partners, fathers and friends aren't discussing it with you.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 7:26 AM on October 15, 2016 [80 favorites]


What are the chances that instead of fragmenting after their loss the GOP actually steers into this harder? Embraces being the party of rape culture and home grown terrorism harder than it ever has before?
posted by Artw at 7:28 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


> Does anyone else feel like the last debate might cause actual psychological trauma to the audience?

My wife and I are going to skip it because the second debate cost us sleep and a measure of sanity. It'll be interesting to see how much the audience drops; I'm going to presume that will be the main reason.
posted by languagehat at 7:28 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


((hug))
posted by mikelieman at 7:28 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


So is this Trump's plan? Can't defend it among an avalanche of women telling your 'grab' stories, so pull all your people under the guise of "the media is being unfair to me"?

No. They'll say that the media is being partisan not putting their guests on and people will believe them. It further seeds distrust for his biggest critics.
posted by Talez at 7:28 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Also: After 9/11 I felt that the strongest response would be to make a few security adjustments, make some public renewals of our belief in due process and free expression of religion, and keep on trucking. Just deprive the spark of its oxygen and kindling and move along. I feel the same thing here. This whole idea of Trump's Angry Idiots representing an existential threat to our nation is a step backwards. And I know no one here is talking about clampdowns etc., but it would be helpful for us not to preemptively overheat.
posted by argybarg at 7:30 AM on October 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


I think the militias will be energized when Trump loses. I think lone gunmen will have their episodes. I'm terribly sad about that. But I do not believe we are watching a popular uprising or wave of bloodshed, or a fundamental shift into an insecure state.

I do not believe that either. There will not be a Million Deplorable March gunning down all in its path.

But there will be violence. And "insecure state" depends greatly on who you are, where you live, and what people think you look like.
posted by delfin at 7:30 AM on October 15, 2016 [18 favorites]


Kelllyanne has lost complete control of the phone. Jesus Christ his twitter feed is just, what in the fucking fuck?
posted by Talez at 7:32 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


If you want to be calm, be calm. But for those of us in likely in the crosshairs, please don't tell us to just be calm.
posted by cashman at 7:32 AM on October 15, 2016 [66 favorites]


Remember in 64 the Goldwater GOP was blown out by Johnson and then they ran Nixon in 68 as a kind of moderate.
posted by humanfont at 7:34 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Now I know the hornet's nest can be nasty and the hate is hard to bear.

Try to imagine how this might read to the women or POC dealing with actual abuse, harassment, and real bodily fear as a result of all of this, and then maybe think about apologizing.

It's all just words to you, but it's assault to someone else. It's stochastic terrorism. And besides the increase in hate crimes we've already seen, I would be surprised if we didn't see a huge spike in gendered violence, too. (Not sure we track it that way yet?)

Anyway. Perhaps lectures are best left to people who have their own skin in the game.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:37 AM on October 15, 2016 [62 favorites]


I'm not so much worried about revolution - though the prospect of assassination attempts seems terrifyingly possible.

What gets to me:

a) for the first time since I was a teenager (the 80's, when we all basically thought we were going to die in a nuclear war), I have to worry about nuclear war (thanks, Russian!Trump)

and b) relying on the polls for comfort, when there are so many reports of voter suppression in swing states and so many reports of Russia trying to influence the election.

I mean, the polls can be totally on point -- but if enough votes are suppressed or enough records screwed with, we could "lose" without really losing, right? And then there's Trump's Mirror - if he's accusing our side of doing something, there's a 100% certainty he's doing it himself. What if the fix is in, as he says - but for him, not for Hillary?

For most of the past several months I've felt... I don't know. I feel mentally ill on this subject. I'm worried about so many things this election cycle that I would have laughed off in any other, and the worry feels both ridiculous and legitimate. And the worse Trump's numbers get, the more I worry.
posted by invincible summer at 7:37 AM on October 15, 2016 [22 favorites]


You know what's fucked up? Coming to MeFi for a sense of solidarity and community during the most terrifying election of our lifetimes, and instead having to beat back more condescending, minimizing, dismissive shit.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:40 AM on October 15, 2016 [40 favorites]


Trump will be in Maine today.

Maine.

Reports that he will be in Guatemala tomorrow are unconfirmed.
posted by petebest at 7:41 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


Last I checked, the Mefi call team is #1 (sorry for the poor quality of pic)- let's keep up the good work! Link to join the Mefi call team.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:41 AM on October 15, 2016 [16 favorites]


But this is like the emotional turmoil, the big family fight, right before the abuser finally gets kicked out of the house. He promises he'll have his revenge, he's going to make everyone suffer.

Finally, if you actually knew anything about this at all, you'd know this is the time when you're most likely to be actually fucking murdered.

But don't be fainthearted.

Try to imagine my reaction to that.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:43 AM on October 15, 2016 [76 favorites]


This whole idea of Trump's Angry Idiots representing an existential threat to our nation is a step backwards.

Charles Kurzman and David Schanzer: The Growing Right-Wing Terror Threat
If you keep up with the news, you know that a small but steady stream of American Muslims, radicalized by overseas extremists, are engaging in violence here in the United States.

But headlines can mislead. The main terrorist threat in the United States is not from violent Muslim extremists, but from right-wing extremists. Just ask the police.

In a survey we conducted with the Police Executive Research Forum last year of 382 law enforcement agencies, 74 percent reported anti-government extremism as one of the top three terrorist threats in their jurisdiction; 39 percent listed extremism connected with Al Qaeda or like-minded terrorist organizations. And only 3 percent identified the threat from Muslim extremists as severe, compared with 7 percent for anti-government and other forms of extremism.
[...]
An officer from a large metropolitan area said that “militias, neo-Nazis and sovereign citizens” are the biggest threat we face in regard to extremism. One officer explained that he ranked the right-wing threat higher because “it is an emerging threat that we don’t have as good of a grip on, even with our intelligence unit, as we do with the Al Shabab/Al Qaeda issue, which we have been dealing with for some time.” An officer on the West Coast explained that the “sovereign citizen” anti-government threat has “really taken off,” whereas terrorism by American Muslim is something “we just haven’t experienced yet.”
posted by zombieflanders at 7:48 AM on October 15, 2016 [53 favorites]


@ditzkoff
if you're accused of multiple sexual assaults, a strange thing to say is, "If I *were* going to do it, it wouldn't be with that person"


Yes, isn't this about as transparent and ridiculous as the time OJ wrote, "If I did it"?
posted by krinklyfig at 7:51 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


Of course, the threat was evident from at least 2009, when the conservative noise machine succeeded in making the DHS retract an analysis noting a sharp rise in right-wing domestic terrorist activity. The pressure from conservatives continued until they eventually gutted the unit focused on domestic terror.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:54 AM on October 15, 2016 [67 favorites]


Also, bringing in that Gilbertthrope witness placed him in the airplane next to her. He could easily have just said she's crazy and made it up entirely but he decided to go with "I was definitely there but I didn't grope her." It is beyond bizarre.
posted by gatorae at 7:56 AM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]


Just now on AM Joy she played clips of Trump surrogates making their absurd Beyoncé defense on other networks. Then the camera returns to her and she says, "okay." Then she pulled a glass of lemonade from under her desk and started stiring it. Then they went to a wide shot and all her guests have glasses of lemonade too.
posted by humanfont at 7:57 AM on October 15, 2016 [122 favorites]


Morning Joy's name is so literal today.
posted by Talez at 7:58 AM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]


My wife and I are going to skip it because the second debate cost us sleep and a measure of sanity. It'll be interesting to see how much the audience drops; I'm going to presume that will be the main reason.

I highly recommend doing this to anyone who feels the need for self care, or who just can't stand to watch the Orange Goblin abuse Clinton again. I've been a political junkie since high school, and I have not watched a single debate which included Donald. The closest I came was listening to a live stream during the primaries, and only for maybe 30 minutes. I do not regret this decision, and I still keep up with all the details and election news while maintaining my own bit of sanity, or whatever's left of it.
posted by krinklyfig at 7:59 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


When you can't even get Reek to show up, you are Royally fucked.
posted by mikelieman at 7:59 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Is it just AM Joy, or have other shows lost their Ttump spokescritters too?
posted by Devonian at 8:00 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Then she pulled a glass of lemonade from under her desk and started stiring it. Then they went to a wide shot and all her guests have glasses of lemonade too.

That is the best thing ever. Both Beyoncé and Al Roker must be proud.

So glad people here are helping to bring these moments to those of us with no TV or poor internet access. I owe you all a lemonade or three, or margarita.
posted by krinklyfig at 8:08 AM on October 15, 2016 [12 favorites]


This whole idea of Trump's Angry Idiots representing an existential threat to our nation is a step backwards.

Beyond the threat of individuals acting out, what Trump is doing is undermining democracy and the peaceful transition of power. Social mores and faith in the system is what girds American democracy, not a piece of paper, and Trump is destroying both.

And if you think he won't go even further than already calling for his opponent to be jailed, calling the election rigged, calling for the media to be shut down, I'll just ask when has he ever not gone lower? This is a man who called for revolution repeatedly the night Romney lost. You think he's going to be better when he loses?
posted by chris24 at 8:11 AM on October 15, 2016 [44 favorites]


I seem to recall people talking about getting together emergency kits with water, canned food, etc. and making go bags for the inevitable violent backlash when Obama was elected, too. It didn't get that far then, and I don't think it'll get that far now.

(Stock up on emergency supplies anyway so you're prepared for the next natural disaster. And check your smoke alarms.)
posted by blnkfrnk at 8:15 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Also, bringing in that Gilbertthrope witness placed him in the airplane next to her.

On the other hand, that's not very difficult to back away from, since "Gilby" is not exactly known to be a reliable witness.
posted by effbot at 8:17 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Beyond the threat of individuals acting out, what Trump is doing is undermining democracy and the peaceful transition of power.

He's inciting the mob, and like a coward, he will deny responsibility for what the mob does once it's unleashed.

The man is disturbing my pacifism.
posted by Mooski at 8:17 AM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]


the inevitable violent backlash when Obama was elected, too. It didn't get that far then, and I don't think it'll get that far now.

McCain conceded and wasn't calling for people to rise up.
posted by chris24 at 8:18 AM on October 15, 2016 [28 favorites]


My concern is not for a national violent revolution. It's for individual small scale outbursts of violence. That's a revolution in the lives of those who are injured and killed and their loved ones, and I am not comfortable with minimizing that.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:19 AM on October 15, 2016 [59 favorites]


Gloria goddamn Steinem on AM Joy talking about Michelle Obama, and how she may have succeeded in changing people's consciousness, and how control of reproduction is essential to hierarchy, and how masculinity is like a drug.

God I do hope this is the beginning of a sea change.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:20 AM on October 15, 2016 [79 favorites]


I was going to turn up for the third debate even though it raises my blood pressure mightily, because if Hillary can show up and dismantle that goon so calmly and coolly in the face of all this insanity then dammit, I'm going to watch in support of her. But I've got a math test that night. I'm sorry to have to miss it but I'm sure I'll be spending the next day watching clips anyway so it's not like I'll escape it...
posted by palomar at 8:20 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


But headlines can mislead. The main terrorist threat in the United States is not from violent Muslim extremists, but from right-wing extremists. Just ask the police.

Thanks for posting that.

Of course, the threat was evident from at least 2009, when the conservative noise machine succeeded in making the DHS retract an analysis noting a sharp rise in right-wing domestic terrorist activity. The pressure from conservatives continued until they eventually gutted the unit focused on domestic terror.

The Southern Poverty Law Center has been tracking this stuff for a number of years (doing the work the US federal government is incapable of or prevented from doing). This list is pretty disturbing:

Terror from the Right.

Unfortunately, a variety of circumstances (Trump maybe being the final exhortation these folks need) have conspired to both arm and prime people for exactly the thing people are rightly worried about Trump fomenting in the instance of a Clinton victory:

After reading and lurking for a while, he needs to talk to someone about it, signing up as a registered user on a racist forum where he commiserates in an echo chamber of angry fellow failures where Jews, gays, minorities and multiculturalism are blamed for everything.

Assured of the supremacy of his race and frustrated by the inferiority of his achievements, he binges online for hours every day, self-medicating, slowly sipping a cocktail of rage. He gradually gains acceptance in this online birthing den of self-described “lone wolves,” but he gets no relief, no practical remedies, no suggestions to improve his circumstances. He just gets angrier.

And then he gets a gun.


It's not that their numbers are huge. But they're heavily armed, and they're strongly motivated to act.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:21 AM on October 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


The difference between the rhetoric now and at Obama's win is that the opposition party wasn't purposely fomenting violence. But I don't know what can be done. I'm not going to let fear of the outcome stop me from voting Clinton, and I don't think anyone else in this thread will, either. I appreciate people's concern and yes, terror, over what may come November 9th, but we can't control what may occur. We can only do that which makes us feel safer, which is different for every person's situation. I have felt consoled by all these threads until now, but I may have to step out as I feel my anxiety rising listening to people's very real concerns. I just can't cope, I can't control homegrown terrorism, and I'm voting for Clinton regardless.
posted by thebrokedown at 8:25 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]




Jon Ronson, The Elephant in the Room: A Journey into the Trump Campaign and the "Alt-Right". Ronson is used to dealing with conspiracy theorist fringe groups so the Trump campaign is definitely in his wheelhouse.

(And seriously Amazon -- you have a purchase history on me going back 20 years. Why did it take you two weeks to alert me to a new Jon Ronson book?)
posted by nathan_teske at 8:33 AM on October 15, 2016 [12 favorites]


Voters Up And Out Early In Battleground Ohio | Morning Joe | MSNBC

Maddow noted last night that early voting shows lower turnout in Cuyahoga County, which is apparently a typical democratic stronghold. Very interesting. Not sure what things are looking like in other parts of OH.
posted by cashman at 8:35 AM on October 15, 2016


I've really been enjoying the sign reports upthread, and recognize that not everyone may see this change. Is anyone else noticing this and what do you think it's about?

In the case of Clinton supporters, it's definitely fear of retaliation, in whatever form it may take. This has been a problem since the primaries, and for good reason.
posted by krinklyfig at 8:35 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


But this is like the emotional turmoil, the big family fight, right before the abuser finally gets kicked out of the house. He promises he'll have his revenge, he's going to make everyone suffer. But don't be fainthearted.

Statistics show that 75% of women who are murdered by their batterers are killed when they leave or after they leave the relationship.

That's one site out of millions of google hits. Argybargy, please come back to this thread when you've done your homework and are no longer tempted to spit out paternalistic garbage like the above comment into your online community.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 8:37 AM on October 15, 2016 [62 favorites]


"Good reason" meaning, there is reason Clinton supporters are fearful and overly cautious about openly displaying their political leanings. It's about survival in the face of a violent opposition.
posted by krinklyfig at 8:37 AM on October 15, 2016






Ha, bizarro GOP Senate candidate Jon Girodes (the one who suggested a KFC & watermelon event in Harlem, and sent a shirtless picture to a reporter) has just been arrested for rental fraud. (He kept renting out the same apartment and then canceling after getting the renters' deposit and not returning their money.)
posted by oh yeah! at 8:40 AM on October 15, 2016 [68 favorites]


Maddow noted last night that early voting shows lower turnout in Cuyahoga County, which is apparently a typical democratic stronghold. Very interesting. Not sure what things are looking like in other parts of OH.

Anecdata, but my best friend and her husband live in Cuyahoga County and when I asked her if she was going to vote early she said that there is no early voting at her polling location.
posted by palomar at 8:40 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Also: After 9/11 I felt that the strongest response would be to make a few security adjustments, make some public renewals of our belief in due process and free expression of religion, and keep on trucking. Just deprive the spark of its oxygen and kindling and move along. I feel the same thing here.

And after 9/11, instead of "a few security adjustments" we got the NSA, instead of "public renewals of our belief in due process" we got Gitmo, and instead of "free expression of religion" we got Islamophobia.

What in the HELL makes you think that we'd do better now?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:42 AM on October 15, 2016 [13 favorites]




Maddow noted last night that early voting shows lower turnout in Cuyahoga County, which is apparently a typical democratic stronghold. Very interesting. Not sure what things are looking like in other parts of OH.

Overall, the number of requested absentee ballots is down by 2.6% in Ohio. Cuyahoga County alone has it down by 16%, although officials say they expect the eventual turnout in the county to match that of 2012. Whether it's cause for concern or not, I have no idea.
posted by the cydonian at 8:45 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


And after 9/11, instead of "a few security adjustments" we got the NSA, instead of "public renewals of our belief in due process" we got Gitmo, and instead of "free expression of religion" we got Islamophobia.


Agreed that those were all the wrong responses.
posted by argybarg at 8:48 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Taking Trump voters’ concerns seriously means listening to what they’re actually saying

Great article.
posted by cashman at 8:48 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


I’m not sure what words to use, but there’s something profoundly evil about the Trump campaign at this point, and the people he attracts to it. And I think that’s the right word to use.
- Nate Silver

[Real]
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:50 AM on October 15, 2016 [85 favorites]


...my best friend and her husband live in Cuyahoga County and when I asked her if she was going to vote early she said that there is no early voting at her polling location.

As far as I know, there's only one location to do early in-person voting in Cuyahoga County: the county board of elections office, downtown, sort of an expedition into unknown territory for an awful lot of county residents. I suppose that's why all the video reports on early voting in Cleveland show the same scene.
posted by Western Infidels at 8:51 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


I think what will save America from the post-Trump Trumpists is the demographics, pure and simple. A lot of right-wing politics isn't explicitly about identity, especially the economic side, but a very great deal is - and in a functioning democracy that's not a natural fit for a diverse population.

Which is why, of course, there's so much effort spent by the right in perverting the course of democracy - the gerrymandering, voter suppression and so on - and why it's most prominent where the threat to right-wing identity politics is strongest. It's why the poisonous right wing media are doing so well; it's one of the few working weapons left for them to use.

It's also why the desperation of the right is growing and the atmosphere so unsettling. It would always have been like this, though. These people know they're losing, they know the climate is changing, they know there's no stopping the rise of the political sea that laps around their shining Mar-A-Lago, and they know they're going to lose the war. No wonder they're behaving like desperate people.

The war isn't over, of course, and there are many bad things that could happen. But short of active suppression of huge numbers of people in ways that the political framework is designed to prevent, the final emasculation of the far-right is not in doubt. If - and it's a very important if - the progressives keep up the fight with all their energy, all their vision and all their will.

The war is there to be won.

(I wish I could say the same about the UK. Meanwhile, the loudest sound coming out of The Original Mr Brexit's beerhole is that of frantic backpeddling. Mr Farage, he not happy with Mr Trump.)
posted by Devonian at 8:52 AM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]


A fun video from Australia showing Hillary's lighter side when she was Secretary of State (via the Hillary Clinton subreddit).

FUCK YES A CLINTON INTERVIEW WITH HAMISH AND ANDY
posted by iffthen at 8:53 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Agreed that those were all the wrong responses.

And that is exactly my point, that "depriving the spark of its oxygen and kindling and moving along" did not work. So your advocating using that approach again strikes me as puzzlingly naive.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:58 AM on October 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


I do not see Hillary Clinton as a victim. She has invisible chain mail, does not even make a whisper, she is poised and on point. I watch the debates because I find them satisfying, because they really demonstrated who is who. She is a candidate for president, Trump is trying to raise money for his failing businesses, and establish ties to the Russian market. He is working on pulling up stakes in the US, because his credit ratings have to be awful for getting mega loans. He is a gangster, and looks that way. It doesn't matter how many sycophants he trots out, he has no interest in the process of government, fealty to acceptable social standards, his attention span stretches to the space between his hand and his pocket, his hand and his mouth, his hand and other people's property. The debates are fascinating in that one debater is clearly fit for office, and the attendant struggle to maintain focus on the needs of the governed. The other candidate is not even there, with information, plans, thoughts, or skill, he is there in a reflexive sense, backing up his poses, if he can even remember them long enough.
posted by Oyéah at 8:58 AM on October 15, 2016 [22 favorites]


Only that's not what we did. We fed in tons of oxygen and kindling by overreacting. That was my point.
posted by argybarg at 8:59 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Re: Cuyahoga County - one thing that's fairly new (that neither the county BoE nor the state make very clear) is that "absentee" ballots include early voting in person, and you don't need to request them ahead of time if that's how you plan to vote. So that might be affecting the "requested" absentee ballots.

Also, Western Infidels is entirely correct, early voting in person for Cuyahoga happens only at the BoE building, 29th & Euclid. Early voting hours.
posted by soundguy99 at 9:08 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Josh Barro on MSNBC trying to figure out how to respond to gaslighting. "We just need this to be over so we can stop arguing about these stupid things."

Oh, Josh. That's not how it goes.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:10 AM on October 15, 2016 [16 favorites]


FUCK YES A CLINTON INTERVIEW WITH HAMISH AND ANDY

My favourite part is where George Negus says "if she ever applies for political asylum we should snap her up".
posted by Talez at 9:13 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


Transcript of H.O.'s campaign rally yesterday in Greensboro , North Carolina includes this bit: "Even a simple investigation would’ve shown these allegations against me, in just about all cases, it’s nonsense, it’s false." [emphasis added]

Some are quoting only the part I emphasized, sounding like he's admitting to sexual assault, but I disappointingly conclude that he's saying some investigations to "prove" them false would not be simple.

I prefer to believe that he thinks his behavior is OK as long as he reins it in sometimes.

why am i even parsing the words of a chump-change wanna-be dictator?
posted by morganw at 9:16 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I got my early ballot in the mail yesterday, and am about to sit down and fill it out.

Let's go.
posted by Superplin at 9:16 AM on October 15, 2016 [37 favorites]


I think the militias will be energized when Trump loses. I think lone gunmen will have their episodes. I'm terribly sad about that. But I do not believe we are watching a popular uprising or wave of bloodshed, or a fundamental shift into an insecure state.

No, we're not looking at an organized revolt. That has only happened twice in US history (1776 and 1861) and both times it was led by local / regional elites against a government that was perceived to be unresponsive to and unrepresentative of their local issues. That's not this.

This is the politics of backlash. And based on what's happened historically, I think we can expect to see local authorities engage in voter suppression in plausibly deniable ways (like strict and/or unequal application of registration and ID laws, various election day shenanigans, etc.), and to see more overt intimidation by non-state actors (the "poll-watching" type actions Trump has been darkly referencing).

Add to that online harassment and doxxing -- this is the lynch mob of the 20th century, with the same outcome: the punishment of minority voices that dare to speak out, the establishment of a chilling effect on speech, and the psychological catharsis and vindication of aggrieved white supremacists, who are able to overcome their own feelings of alienation by means of united action against a perceived enemy. This will continue after Election Day, partially because of the goading of Trump and his media allies at Breitbart et al., but also because the election of Hillary Clinton will be felt as a further alienation from the federal government and from the "unrecognizable" American society of 2016.

The next level of violence is public attacks on community symbols. We see this already, too -- at Mother Emmanuel, at countless black churches and synagogues and mosques that have been vandalized or torched or shot up in the last few years. We'll almost certainly continue to see this kind of activity. Will it escalate from lone-wolf actions to small groups committing more significant mass shootings and/or bombings? I don't know but I wouldn't rule it out.

Historically, these moments of societal change have led to important permanent steps forward toward equality, but have been followed by a period of weariness in the national consciousness and conservative regrouping at local and state legislatures. The most obvious example is Reconstruction, when the South was under martial law and multiracial progressive governments were set up by the occupying Union Army. However, Congress and the North basically gave up after a few years and allowed low-level terrorism to suppress minority voting to the extent that white rule was reestablished under the southern Democratic Party. And of course we know that an echo of this happened after the civil rights movement in the 60s as well with the resegregation of American cities into "urban" and "suburban" areas.

I haven't said anything about violence against women here, because frankly I don't know enough about how the backlash to feminism at a political level works.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:18 AM on October 15, 2016 [41 favorites]


Utah's mail in ballots don't come out until exactly three weeks from the election.
posted by Oyéah at 9:19 AM on October 15, 2016






Leading Trump surrogate Sheriff Clarke now calling for mob violence. But yeah, don't worry, there's no real risk of violence. This isn't damaging at all.

@SheriffClarke
"It's incredible that our institutions of gov, WH, Congress, DOJ, and big media are corrupt & all we do is bitch. Pitchforks and torches time" [pic of mob holding torches, clubs and pitchforks]
posted by chris24 at 9:22 AM on October 15, 2016 [27 favorites]


One of the Hannity tweeters called Trump a "dirty welcher," now that is a highly sophisticated move here, citing coal dust on miners, and characterizing an entire area of Great Britain as people who don't pay their bills. The worst smear has to be associating them with Trump at all.
posted by Oyéah at 9:24 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Sherriff Clarke, this is golden lunatic fringe Clark, from north of the Mahleur? Great! Just great! Nope, nope, nope, differ'nt lunatic.
posted by Oyéah at 9:25 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Josh Barro on MSNBC trying to figure out how to respond to gaslighting. "We just need this to be over so we can stop arguing about these stupid things."

Ha ha, good luck to any media types still trying to spin a "both sides" narrative and appear vaguely attached to reality. This is your fault, you gormless fucks.
posted by Artw at 9:27 AM on October 15, 2016 [24 favorites]


Sherriff Clarke, this is golden lunatic fringe Clark, from north of the Mahleur

He's the guy who runs the Milwaukee County PD. That something like this is coming from someone with his amount of power (possibly including military hardware) is extremely dangerous territory.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:31 AM on October 15, 2016 [39 favorites]


From well upthread: what I don't get is why he's increasing the the hurt by behaving so gracelessly.

Because he's got exactly zero practice in losing a job to another, specific person, much less one he hates. He's never applied for a job in his life - never had to convince a group of HR personnel that he's the best-qualified applicant. He's had to convince boards of directors that he has an amazing business plan - and if they're not all convinced, he goes around them or over their heads or convinces enough of them that they'll pull the others through.

Sometimes, he can't do that; he doesn't win new business with every pitch he makes. But when he fails, it's "we're sorry, Mr. Trump, but the board has declined to go with your new hotel/casino/resort plan," not "we're sorry, but we're going with Mr. X's plan for a new casino in exactly the same place yours was going to be, with the same budget and management staff--and they'll be going out of their way to avoid all the marketing plans you wanted to use." And certainly, it's never, "we're going with Mrs. X's plan instead of yours;" in Trump's world, women are accessories, not agents.

He's acting like a petulant child because that was the only time in his life he got told, "no, you don't get to do that; this other person gets to do what they want instead." (Whether that was "pick the tv show to watch" or "get the first turn in the game.") That's the only behavior template he's got for this kind of situation.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:32 AM on October 15, 2016 [43 favorites]


I think what will save America from the post-Trump Trumpists is the demographics, pure and simple. A lot of right-wing politics isn't explicitly about identity, especially the economic side, but a very great deal is - and in a functioning democracy that's not a natural fit for a diverse population.

You can only believe this if you ignore the history of America.

The American identity has been remarkably fluid. At certain points the Scots, the Irish, Italians and Eastern Europeans were stigmatized out-groups before they become part of the central American identity. They went from being outsiders to in some cases being amongst the strongest enforcers of nationalist identity politics in just a generation or two (take a look at how over represented Scottish ancestry still is in North American policing). Trump's current strongest source of support is with white men of German ancestry.

The difference now is that we feel like the dividing lines are obvious - color, gender and sexual orientation but those ethnic dividing lines of yore were also 'obvious' to the people of that time.

I'd like to hope you are right and we are headed for better more inclusive times but history says we are probably heading for just the same problems but maybe different targets.
posted by srboisvert at 9:33 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


I agree with everything tivalasvegas wrote. And I think the damage to our discourse is going to be profound, and our ability to speak sensibly as a nation and continue our self-governance is going to be painful.

I also do not think Trumpism will prevail. I think this is a self-immolation on the part of a dying portion of our culture, and good riddance. I do not wish to paint 30-story-tall shadows on these losers, because that is precisely their wish. But I also do not underestimate their ability to harm.

I feel impending dread, and I feel impending triumph as the same time. I hope for us to find a way to feel collective triumph and righteous strength without negating the very realistic dread that many feel.
posted by argybarg at 9:36 AM on October 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


The Frontline doc on Trump was quite clear. He was sent to military school because he was physically violent and socially unrestrained. The man has not done an ounce of maturation since then.
posted by xyzzy at 9:37 AM on October 15, 2016 [38 favorites]


Leading Republican strategist (McCain, Romney, Bush) Mike Murphy regarding this morning's Hillary should be jailed and the election is rigged tweet:

@murphymike
Trump is now attacking our Democracy. Any Elected R who doesn't condemn this anti-American thug will carry a moral stain forever. #cowards
posted by chris24 at 9:37 AM on October 15, 2016 [106 favorites]


i wasn't expecting this election to become an explicit referendum on toxic masculinity, but i guess expecting subtext from anything involving donald trump is a mug's game…

i'm not worried about open revolt but i do worry about the damage that a couple hundred john hinckley jr. types with AR-15s can do :(
posted by murphy slaw at 9:39 AM on October 15, 2016 [14 favorites]


I'm sitting here at my kitchen table after reading that tweetstorm from Jared Yates Sexton and if somebody had a heart rate monitor linked up to me they'd probably be getting ready to administer first aid. (Already I'm forcing it to drop with deep breathing I perfected to help myself survive in the past, never fear.)

I am scared.

Those of us who have been through domestic abuse know that logic doesn't really play a part in it. The abuser gets some random wild hair about some imagined slight and here we go again. For people who have convinced themselves that the media is rigged and the election will be stolen and the only antidote is violence, this all makes sense. It is self-fulfilling logic. If you hate women or black people and need someone to take out your frustration on, you're going to see those bitches or those n______ stealing from you wherever you go.

And as those of us who have been through abuse know, being optimistic does not help. Hanging tight does not help. It only emboldens abusers whose worldviews are constructed and reinforced from a place of abuse.

I am scared and I don't recognize what I see around me and I am livid at the party and the candidate who have emboldened these fuckers. But I know, at the same time, that they have been here all the time, operating with their skewed logic, waiting for information and social currency to feed their self view.

Sorry if this is incoherent. I keep seeing people say "it's okay, check out of the election" but for me it's a matter of hypervigilance, of wanting to know my enemy, so to speak, and to witness what is happening so I can name it.
posted by mynameisluka at 9:40 AM on October 15, 2016 [72 favorites]


That feeling when someone posts something so utterly ridiculous that it must be a silly joke, but it's supposedly Trump's polling analysts showing off their sophisticated modelling methods...

Nate Silver comments.
posted by effbot at 9:40 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


Politico: Trump's Bizarre Descent into Vitriol

"As his humiliation deepens and his personal brand is further tarnished, he seems intent only on degrading American politics and exacting revenge on the media he believes are conspiring to prevent him from winning the White House."
posted by tzikeh at 9:41 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Remember the conversation upthread about how Ryan's vote in a hypothetical tie isn't a coup and thus not a subversion of the Constitution? Well, we've heard nothing from Ryan on what Trump and Clarke and their supporters are calling for. Nor McConnell, for that matter. At what point does their silence equal an abdication of their duty to uphold the Constitution?
posted by zombieflanders at 9:42 AM on October 15, 2016 [14 favorites]


At what point does their silence equal an abdication of their duty to uphold the Constitution?

That Ryan and McConnell and every Republican are not being asked every day if they think the election is rigged is another cataclysmic failure of the press.
posted by chris24 at 9:44 AM on October 15, 2016 [41 favorites]


I'm gobsmacked that Clarke hasn't been fired yet.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:47 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Trump just said he wanted them both to take a drug test prior to the debate.
posted by Talez at 9:47 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


I've really been enjoying the sign reports upthread, and recognize that not everyone may see this change. Is anyone else noticing this and what do you think it's about?

I've mentioned before that because my (white, middle-class) family has the social and financial capital to bear the risks of sporting a Clinton/Kaine yard sign/car magnet/etc, we do. Our town is a mix of older, white, former auto workers and their descendants, and an increasing number of families of color, immigrants, etc. So, there are many, many folks in my area who lack the financial and social privilege to feel/be safe in doing so, but we can - for example, my older, white neighbors bring up my (losing) Jeopardy! appearance almost every time I see them, so we're like celebrities for a two-block radius.

Because of some street maintenance being done in our neighborhood yesterday, I had to take a different route to the store than I usually do. Friends, I saw a block where 4 of the 10 or so houses were sporting Trump signs, 1 had a Johnson sign, and there were 0 for Clinton. If I were a Clinton supporter on that block, even I of the relative security would be hard-pressed to put up a sign or rock a bumper sticker.

But I am hopeful that putting up my yard sign when I did has been like an anti-Trump sign prophylactic for our block at least. There are none on my street, even though many of my neighbors are prime candidates to be Trump supporters (eg, older, white, HS education, legacy middle-class) Whether this is because they wouldn't have bothered anyway, or they don't wish to piss off the folks that clear their sidewalks and driveways when it snows, or don't want to have Jeopardy! lady think they're stupid or whatever: the three blocks where I have seen Clinton signs in my neighborhood have no Trump signs, whereas the Trump signs tend to clump together in twos and threes on other blocks.

Nevertheless, every day I check to see whether my sign has been stolen or our cars keyed. So far, so good, but the anxiety is there. I don't know whether my sign has actually helped people feel safer in their own neighborhood, but I hope, I hope.
posted by palindromic at 9:47 AM on October 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


One of Trump's surrogates on CNN is peddling the rigged election theory. Zero pushback from the reporter or the political commentator who earlier stated that the choice was between a corrupt politician and a crazy person.
posted by xyzzy at 9:48 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Eliot Weinberger, for the London Review of Books: "Who Won’t Be Voting for Trump".
posted by MonkeyToes at 9:48 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


And the civil war continues...

Donald Trump camp rebukes Ohio GOP Chair Matt Borges, cuts ties

"Underscoring the searing divisions over Donald Trump within the Republican Party, Trump’s Ohio campaign today disassociated itself with state GOP Chairman Matt Borges because of his lack of support for the party’s presidential nominee.

Trump “is very disappointed in Matt’s duplicity,” Trump’s Ohio director, Robert Paduchik, told the GOP’s state central committee in an extraordinary letter today — a mere 24 days from the election."
posted by chris24 at 9:49 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


Trump just said he wanted them both to take a drug test prior to the debate.

So clearly the amphetamine rumors are true. #TrumpsMirror
posted by chris24 at 9:50 AM on October 15, 2016 [40 favorites]


I'm gobsmacked that Clarke hasn't been fired yet.

Clarke, like most Sheriffs, is an elected official. Who would fire him? Often a county Sheriff is accountable to nobody but the voters, the Feds, or the Governor/AG of the state.
posted by dis_integration at 9:50 AM on October 15, 2016


US Senator Jeff Sessions:

@hollybdc
Jeff Sessions: “They are attempting to rig this election"
posted by chris24 at 9:54 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


I keep seeing people say "it's okay, check out of the election" but for me it's a matter of hypervigilance, of wanting to know my enemy, so to speak, and to witness what is happening so I can name it.

Not just you, mynameisluka. I expressed the same thing a few days ago in another thread. Paying attention feels like self-protection and self-destruction at the same time.

On another note, Trump's response to the sexual assault stories has been and continues to be "That's not who I am as a person. That's not how I've lived my life." At this point, I'm convinced what he's actually saying is "Heh, you don't know the half of it." But he still has the megalomaniac's confidence that he's smarter and more powerful than everyone else and can keep it all hidden. The one thing that makes me feel better is I don't think he can.
posted by mudpuppie at 9:58 AM on October 15, 2016 [16 favorites]


US Senator Jeff Sessions:

Would it be hyperbole to suggest this shit amounts to impeachable offense?

What am I saying, there are still people who venerate Jesse Helms.
posted by Mooski at 10:00 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


probably they take efforts to strike down racist voter restriction laws such as NC's as prima facie evidence of "rigging" the election
posted by thelonius at 10:00 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


I am despondent at Paul Ryan's failure to do even the smallest, easiest bit of the right thing. Be a fucking human being.
posted by sallybrown at 10:02 AM on October 15, 2016 [52 favorites]


Clarke, like most Sheriffs, is an elected official. Who would fire him? Often a county Sheriff is accountable to nobody but the voters, the Feds, or the Governor/AG of the state.

Perhaps "removed from his position by a higher-up" works better. In any event, he's a member of law enforcement advocating for overthrowing a lawfully-elected government. I feel like seditious speech would warrant at least a suspension, if not a removal pending federal charges.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:03 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


WaPo (from June, but I imagine super-relevant considering FLOTUS's speech this week): What’s on Michelle Obama’s mind? Meet the speechwriter who puts it into words.

Her name is Sarah Hurwitz.
posted by tzikeh at 10:05 AM on October 15, 2016 [18 favorites]


Quickie transcript of the drug test comments, any mistakes are mine, I really don't know where to put punctuation to make it make sense:

"Lotta things going on folks, lotta things. I think she's actually getting pumped up if you want to know the truth. She's getting pumped up, you understand. In fact, we're going to be talking about that in a few minutes, she's getting pumped up for Wednesday night. Let's see, you know, I don't know. Maybe we're like athletes, right? Hey, look, I beat 17 senators, governors, I beat all these people, we're like athletes. Hillary beat Bernie although it looked like Bernie got a little bit of a bad deal based on wikileaks, right? If you look at wikileaks. But we're like athletes, right? So athletes, there making them more and more, but athletes, they make them take a drug test, right? I think we should take a drug test prior to the debate. I do. I think we should, why don't we do that? We should take a drug test prior, cause I don't know what's going on with her. But at the beginning of her last debate she was all pumped up at the beginning and at the end it was like come, take me down. She could barely reach her car. So I think we should take a drug test, anyway I'm willing to do it."
posted by peeedro at 10:08 AM on October 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


The Most Important WikiLeaks Revelation Isn’t About Hillary Clinton

Froman, an executive at Citigroup, which would ultimately become the recipient of the largest bailout from the federal government during the financial crisis, had mapped out virtually the entire Obama cabinet, a month before votes were counted... Many liberal pundits have talked about the need to focus exclusively on Donald Trump.... But there are consequences to the kind of home-team political atmosphere that rejects any critical thought about your own side. If the 2008 Podesta emails are any indication, the next four years of public policy are being hashed out right now, behind closed doors. And if liberals want to have an impact on that process, waiting until after the election will be too late. [...]

The wing of the Democratic Party concerned about personnel decisions made its opinion known almost two years ago. Dan Geldon, now chief of staff to Senator Elizabeth Warren, met with Dan Schwerin, a top adviser to Clinton’s campaign, in January 2015. According to an email follow-up with Podesta and others, Geldon “was intently focused on personnel issues, laid out a detailed case against the Bob Rubin school of Democratic policy makers.” He was also “very critical of the Obama administration’s choices.”

The “Bob Rubin school” is named for the former top executive at Goldman Sachs and Citigroup and first Clinton administration Treasury secretary. It is composed precisely of the kinds of Democrats that the Warren wing opposes on domestic policy, particularly on financial matters. In the Obama administration, that school won out. Froman, chief of staff to Rubin at Treasury, gave options for Treasury secretary that ranged from Rubin himself to Summers and Geithner, two of his key protégés. In another 2008 email Rubin imagined for himself a “Harry Hopkins” position in the Obama administration, referring to Franklin Roosevelt’s top adviser.

The Rubin school dictated the Obama administration’s light-touch policy on bank misconduct (which resulted in no serious legal or fiduciary consequences for the major players) and its first-term approach to the financial crisis (which was defined by a stimulus package that even at the time was criticized for being woefully inadequate, as well as a premature turn to budget-cutting). These are exactly the flaws that Geldon, Warren’s emissary, stressed. According to Schwerin, he “spoke repeatedly about the need to have in place people with ambition and urgency who recognize how much the middle class is hurting and are willing to challenge the financial industry.”

Around the same time as that meeting with Geldon, the Clinton campaign was setting up a dinner meeting with its economic policy team, Geithner, Summers, and members of the investment firm Blackstone (along with Teresa Ghilarducci, a retirement security researcher). [...]

Which side will win? The rank and file can actually have a voice in this, to make it known what personnel decisions would be acceptable or unacceptable. They can’t do it by ignoring evidence or sitting on their hands. The demand to only hold one thing in your head at a time—that Trump must be stopped—would squander this opportunity.

posted by johnasdf at 10:10 AM on October 15, 2016 [19 favorites]


So what's the shortest time period you can spend detoxing from speed and still pass a pee test?
posted by Artw at 10:10 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


If the GOP doesn't denounce this rhetoric and conspiracy theories, this is looking more and more like they're OK with Trump being elected by any means possible, then will sorrowfully find an excuse to impeach him and install Pence ASAP.
posted by maudlin at 10:11 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


Hey, look, I beat 17 senators, governors, I beat all these people, we're like athletes. Hillary beat Bernie

And one of the consequences of that was she had a lot of recent experience in one-on-one debates and he had none and she kicked his ass in the debates.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:12 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


@TUSK81
.@BarbaraBoxer: "Presidential historians say this orchestrated strategy to undermine the legitimacy of the election..."

.@BarbaraBoxer: "...well before the votes are even counted is without parallel in American history—and dangerous to our democracy."
posted by chris24 at 10:14 AM on October 15, 2016 [28 favorites]


A new Trump victim, Cathy Heller, comes forward:
Their alleged encounter took place almost two decades ago – Heller believes the year was 1997 and she was at a Mother’s Day brunch – at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate. Heller, her husband, her three children and her in-laws were among dozens of families seated at big round tables in what she and a relative who spoke to the Guardian recall was an open lobby.

Trump made the rounds greeting members of his club. When he stopped at their table, Heller recalled, and her mother-in-law introduced her, she stood and extended her hand.

“He took my hand, and grabbed me, and went for the lips,” she claimed.

Alarmed, she said she leaned backwards to avoid him and almost lost her balance. “And he said, ‘Oh, come on.’ He was strong. And he grabbed me and went for my mouth and went for my lips.” She turned her head, she claims, and Trump planted a kiss on the side of her mouth. “He kept me there for a little too long,” Heller said. “And then he just walked away.”

“I was angry and shaken,” she continued. “He was pissed. He couldn’t believe a woman would pass up the opportunity.” She added that he seemed to feel “entitled” to kiss her.
posted by sallybrown at 10:15 AM on October 15, 2016 [44 favorites]


Don’t Let Trump’s Toxic Masculinity Overshadow Hillary’s Historic Achievement
There’s no sadder commentary about gender politics in America today than the fact that the likely election of the first female president has become a horrific display of toxic masculinity. Hillary Clinton is on the verge of shattering the biggest glass ceiling in American politics, yet her rival has made the race all about male privilege and excess. This is not an accident. It’s a product of political choices made not just by Donald Trump, but by the Republican Party that has made him its standard-bearer.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:15 AM on October 15, 2016 [39 favorites]


> "... this is looking more and more like they're OK with Trump being elected by any means possible, then will sorrowfully find an excuse to impeach him and install Pence ASAP."

I'm sure there were plenty of people in the German government who were sure they could push out that Hitler chap again if he ever got out of hand.
posted by kyrademon at 10:16 AM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]




Right now he's not going to be elected, so it's looking like they'll do anything to disrupt the next administration rather than anything to win - and that includes embracing violence on a level unseen even during the tea party era.
posted by Artw at 10:18 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Jon Ronson, The Elephant in the Room: A Journey into the Trump Campaign and the "Alt-Right". Ronson is used to dealing with conspiracy theorist fringe groups so the Trump campaign is definitely in his wheelhouse.

(And seriously Amazon -- you have a purchase history on me going back 20 years. Why did it take you two weeks to alert me to a new Jon Ronson book?)


One of last week's episodes of Slate's Trumpcast has an interview with Ronson, who goes into Alex Jones and his relationship with Trump. Ronson seems oddly fond of Jones. Very interesting interview, especially if you were a fan of Them.

Warning: every episode of Trumpcast includes a Trump impersonator reading some of his worst tweets from the last few days. I just grip the steering wheel a bit tighter during that part.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:20 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


I skip the tweets in Trumpcast. They were mildly funny in the beginning, but I can't even laugh at this shit any more – and hearing Trump's voice (even impersonated) is not good for me.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 10:25 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


To follow up my thought about Paul Ryan...as much time as I spend loudly criticizing my country, and as many things as I think the U.S. has gotten wrong over the years - the people at home and abroad whom we have gravely mistreated and killed - I still feel truly, spectacularly blessed to be a member of this country. And as part of that, I feel a stewardship for this country. It's part of my responsibility to keep this country structurally sound. It's my duty as an American, something I owe to the generations of Americans who will come after me. It's hard for me to believe Paul Ryan, who's had the very rare experience of representing his country in our national government, with everything included in that (how much of this country he's seen, how many people he's met and talked to, how many issues he's learned about, the feeling of serving the public, even just the experience of being in the Capitol building so often), feels substantially different from me. In any other election, I could understand him taking politic, even duplicitous, steps and positions because he deeply believes his vision for this country will benefit it more than mine. But this election has become a very obvious threat to the continuity of our democracy. And I can't believe that someone who has lived the life he has can turn his face away like this. It is deeply shameful and unpatriotic.
posted by sallybrown at 10:26 AM on October 15, 2016 [20 favorites]




Lest anyone think the ugliness of the election doesn't bleed out into the rest of life, and that there aren't people who are empowered by Trump's hatefulness, I just got the following email from the office of the chancellor at the university I work for. It was sent to all faculty, staff, and students, something like 75,000 people.
Serious allegations about women being sexually assaulted on or near campus have come to my attention. The serious nature of these allegations leave me deeply concerned.... I urge everyone to learn about what constitutes sexual assault and the steps that bystanders can, and should, take. We must put an end to sexual violence.
posted by mudpuppie at 10:29 AM on October 15, 2016 [19 favorites]


I want people to shout "coward!" at Paul Ryan wherever he goes and for the rest of his life.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:29 AM on October 15, 2016 [32 favorites]



From PEC:

Presidential race:
State Margin Power
NH Clinton +5% 100.0
NV Clinton +3.5% 75.4
FL Clinton +4% 53.3
WI Clinton +4% 41.9
OH Clinton +3% 38.8
MN Clinton +6% 38.3
CO Clinton +3% 38.0
PA Clinton +7% 31.0
NC Clinton +1% 20.9
MI Clinton +8% 20.7
VA Clinton +10% 8.2
OR Clinton +10% 8.1
IA Trump +2% 4.3
CT Clinton +12% 2.2
AK Trump +4% 2.0
NJ Clinton +15% 0.11991
posted by petebest at 10:30 AM on October 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


I think we should take a drug test prior to the debate.

How about after?
posted by wilko at 10:31 AM on October 15, 2016 [22 favorites]


> "A new Trump victim, Cathy Heller, comes forward ..."

I've noticed that so far, only the most credible of victims have come forward. Women who had witnesses, or told other people about what had happened long before the tape became public, or both.

And that's already a lot of women.

How many, many haven't even come forward because in their case it would be a he said/she said situation?
posted by kyrademon at 10:31 AM on October 15, 2016 [53 favorites]




If the GOP doesn't denounce this rhetoric and conspiracy theories, this is looking more and more like they're OK with Trump being elected by any means possible, then will sorrowfully find an excuse to impeach him and install Pence ASAP.
Poor Chuck Schumer. After more than a year of silence from me about fracking he heard from me again today. I told him that the reticence to denounce this rhetoric from both sides of the aisle contributes to uncertainty in the electorate and that I am straight up demanding that someone other than President Obama and the press speak to this more vocally.
posted by xyzzy at 10:36 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


Apologies if this has already been posted in one of the other election threads, but I really enjoyed this and recommend it to anyone who needs a quick pick-me-up:

Jezebel: Hillary Clinton's Most Charming Interview Ever
posted by littlecatfeet at 10:36 AM on October 15, 2016 [18 favorites]


Also, from the previous thread, not sure if it's been posted here:

Is Trump's Rise a Result of America Declaring War on Institutions That Make Democracy Possible?
Remember what Hannah Arendt said when she was talking about fascism and totalitarianism. She said thoughtlessness is the essence of totalitarianism. So all of a sudden emotion becomes more important than reason. Ignorance becomes more important than justice. Injustice is looked over as simply something that happens on television. The spectacle of violence takes over everything.

I mean, so it seems to me that we make a terrible mistake in talking about Trump as some kind of essence of evil. Trump is symptomatic of something much deeper in the culture, whether we’re talking about the militarization of everyday life, whether we’re talking about the criminalization of social problems, or whether we’re talking about the way in which money has absolutely corrupted politics. This is a country that is sliding into authoritarianism.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 10:38 AM on October 15, 2016 [28 favorites]


There's basically no chance he wouldn't weasel out of his drug test challenge in the ridiculous event Clinton took him up on it, but that's not the takeaway. The real thing to note here is that Trump accusing Clinton of being "pumped up" at the debates is the surest sign yet that he's on something when he goes up on stage to face her.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:40 AM on October 15, 2016 [69 favorites]


Muslim boy, 7, beaten onboard school bus in North Carolina because of Donald Trump’s hateful rhetoric: father
After Usmani's allegations were first reported by BuzzFeed News Tuesday, Weatherstone Elementary principal Timothy Chadwick told parents in a letter obtained by The News that school officials have launched an investigation. But, he noted, they have not been able to substantiate any of Usmani's claims.

"At this time, the information from the investigation does not support an altercation," Chadwick said. "No students who were interviewed witnessed an altercation. The bus driver did not witness an altercation. The child did not report the bus driver any injury."
THEN HOW DID HIS ARM GET SPRAINED.

At the end of the movie Cry Freedom, which is about the anti-apartheid activist Steve Biko, a list of political prisoners who died in jail scrolls up the screen, along with their date of death and the reported cause. There were some quite dangerous stairways in South African prisons at that time, apparently, if the number of people who tripped and fell to their death on them is any indication.

America, 2016.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:41 AM on October 15, 2016 [25 favorites]


This is really shocking, even by the standards of this election. I don't think Obama ever faced anything like this.

It's a cumulative effect. First, they had to "tolerate" or "suffer through" a black president. Now a woman? (And one with a sustained 24-year hate campaign at that?)
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:46 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


Wait a minute. Hillary is taking a drug that makes her sound reasonable and rational and on top of the facts? Where can I get some?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:48 AM on October 15, 2016 [82 favorites]


Post-dogwalking signage report: I live in a college town that went for Obama both times. Yards up and down the street in my neighborhood are clogged with signs for Democratic downticket candidates, but I see not one sign for any presidential candidate. Not a single one.
posted by HotToddy at 10:49 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Paul Ryan is like the Bizarro World Ben Wyatt.
posted by howfar at 10:50 AM on October 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


Ladies and gentlmen, with abject apologies, I give you the new Republican mascot - Donald Trunk. (twitter, picture, false, best, nc, GOP)

(still in awe of the Economist cover, which I think ranks with the finest 60s and 70s graphic art)
posted by Devonian at 10:52 AM on October 15, 2016 [11 favorites]


"At this time, the information from the investigation does not support an altercation," Chadwick said. "No students who were interviewed witnessed an altercation. The bus driver did not witness an altercation."

Jesus, they sent that out to everyone? It's shitty enough as a kid when people lie about you to your face and the adults buy it, but to then have it sent out in writing.... All they had to do was say they were investigating the situation.
posted by ghost phoneme at 10:54 AM on October 15, 2016 [11 favorites]


I skipped my heavy leg day for the last month out of time constraints. Today I understand better why the temptation to skip leg day and the importance of not skipping leg day. (No seriously, I fricking hurt). In other words, Paul Ryan is a weak, unprincipled man and I'm afraid I might be too.
posted by drewbage1847 at 10:58 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Oh, I almost forgot--yesterday I got so far behind in the thread(s), and then had stuff to do out in the world, that it slipped my mind (because I'm a little obsessive and didn't want to post before getting to the end).

Anyway, my employer is a partner in a newish polling endeavor here in Arizona (document link), which released their first election poll results in August. At a meeting yesterday, it was announced that our next presidential (and statewide) election poll will be completed Tuesday, with results published on Wednesday. They didn't oversample Maricopa County, so they can't confirm in advance whether there will be reliable figures for the Arpaio/Penzone race, but in addition to the presidential race we'll have updated figures for McCain/Kirkpatrick.

I'm hoping Trump's war against the Republican Party will really help crumble the downballot candidates' races, too. Having AZ go for Clinton AND Kirkpatrick would be amazing, but the latter looks tough, so I'll happily take the former. For now.
posted by Superplin at 10:58 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


It really does appear to be going very Pete Tong for the orange octopus in Ohio, per Chris24 above.

Donald Trump's Ohio campaign manager on Saturday renounced its relationship with the Ohio Republican Party's top official, laying bare the long-simmering tensions over Trump's candidacy within the state GOP.

Bob Paduchik, a longtime campaign operative in Ohio, sent a two-page letter to the state GOP's central committee members on Saturday saying Ohio Republican Party Chairman Matt Borges no longer has a relationship with the campaign. The letter accuses Borges of exaggerating his relationship with Trump in media interviews, and undermining Trump's efforts to win in Ohio in order to advance his own candidacy to replace Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus.


So what does this mean? Will the Rerpublican voters in OH just stay home? Can there be a write-in?

This does look like a campaign not so much in free-fall as in a powered dive waiting to see if the wings come off before the ground comes up.
posted by Devonian at 11:01 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


It'd be better for Kirkpatrick to win than for Clinton to win AZ, since she'll be way past 270 by the time the blue tide hits your state. But yeah, it'd be great for Joe Arpaio to have to deal with the fact that he now lives in an officially Blue state. (Plus he might be in jail...)
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:03 AM on October 15, 2016 [11 favorites]


That Vox article on Trumpists is the most honest one I've read, but it leaves me feeling a single if a remedy cannot be found.
What’s needed is an honest reckoning with what it means that a large segment of the US population, large enough to capture one of the two major political parties, is motivated primarily by white nationalism and an anxiety over the fast-changing demographics of the country. Maybe the GOP will find a way to control and contain this part of its base. Maybe the racist faction of the party will dissipate over time, especially as Obama’s presidency recedes into memory. Maybe it took Trump’s celebrity to mobilize them at all, and future attempts will fail.

But Donald Trump’s supporters’ concerns are heavily about race. Taking them seriously means, first and foremost, acknowledging that, and dealing with it honestly.
Yay? I mean, in my life, the only way I've ever been able to shed prejudice or stereotypes is to hang out with people. As an atheist, I viewed the ultra-religious with disdain and wrongly assumed they were all hypocrites and anti-reality. Now that I've been exposed to some religious people through various means, I can honestly say that my assessment was prejudiced and deeply unfair. I still don't believe in God, but I won't dismiss someone out of hand just because they tithe and go to Church more than once a week.

But the impetus had to be on me to go be with people who scared me. I just don't see your average white nationalist going to a Mosque or a black Church or a Quinceañera. Such an action requires a willingness to be persuaded that I don't find evident in Trumpists.
posted by xyzzy at 11:03 AM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]


Swag report: I ordered up some gear after the last debate, and two button sets and a Woman Card for my lovely wife and daughters just arrived with today's mail.
posted by Gelatin at 11:04 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


scaryblackdeath: There's basically no chance he wouldn't weasel out of his drug test challenge in the ridiculous event Clinton took him up on it, but that's not the takeaway. The real thing to note here is that Trump accusing Clinton of being "pumped up" at the debates is the surest sign yet that he's on something when he goes up on stage to face her.

Man. I know I've said in the past that Trump wasn't on drugs, because of his life-long aversion due to his brother's death, and I really believed that. But Trump's Mirror is too thoroughly true for me to entirely do so anymore.

I wonder if the pressures of the campaign ended up driving him to it.
posted by tzikeh at 11:07 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


Hypernormalisation: Adam Curtis plots a path from Syria to Trump, via Jane Fonda

BBC iPlayer. (Only?) starts tomorrow. Clip in article. Probably best for people who aren't compulsive MeFi Election Megathread watchers, but hey. Could be good.
posted by petebest at 11:09 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


So what does this mean? Will the Rerpublican voters in OH just stay home? Can there be a write-in?

This does look like a campaign not so much in free-fall as in a powered dive waiting to see if the wings come off before the ground comes up.


I dunno, I think the difference between a solid Clinton win (somewhere between Obama '08 and Obama '12) and a true landslide with significant downballot knock-on effects will come down to ground game, and whether the Republicans' lack thereof and general discord between the party and the Trump campaign plus the Democrats' GOTV strength push the actual count significantly more Democratic than the polls are showing now. I can't imagine he has that much further to fall polling wise, unless there's still a tranche of evangelicals and/or suburban women who might stay home or whatever.

But all in all, I think we're pretty well baked in - I can't see the polling numbers changing too much between now and Election Day. Now it's just three more damn weeks of waiting.*

*I do realize I'm tempting the thing on the whatever up there or whatever it is I'm supposed to say right now

also, I know "Rerpublican" is a typo, but I kinda like it
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:10 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I would think the even-more-Trump's-mirror is that he takes something prescribed by Dr. Doofus that he doesn't understand is an upper.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:10 AM on October 15, 2016 [26 favorites]


BuzzFeed Where Is Trump’s War On Media Headed?
Nobody is watching Trump’s war on the media — from chants denouncing CNN to legal letters to the Times — with more interest than the brave reporters already working under tough conditions in authoritarian countries. We asked several of them — from Venezuela to the Philippines to the former Soviet Union — about what it’s like to cover leaders who openly threaten to throw enemies in jail. And the answers we got were, well, pretty alarming.

“Get ready for anything,” the Azeri journalist Khadija Ismayilova told us in a recent interview. “Things you don’t imagine — sex tapes. Being kidnapped in the streets and getting beaten.”[...]
Reporters have another role, too, she said, recalling the story of a colleague who was kidnapped, beaten, and then released and ordered to write about his experience.

The press, that is to say, becomes “a tool for intimidation of the population,” she said.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:12 AM on October 15, 2016 [19 favorites]


"Oh no, I'm not taking speed, just a little Adderall prescription" [fake]
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:13 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


I was freaked out the other day about the San Antonio cops wearing Trump hats, and now we have Sheriff Clarke joining them and being even more inflammatory. I acknowledge that these are still isolated incidents. But. I am becoming more and more convinced that although there is mostly a danger of lone wolf actors committing violent acts when Trump loses, there is an increasingly non-zero chance that if something more organized were to occur, then the police are being groomed/encouraged to support it either actively by participating or passively by doing nothing to stop it. That's a lot of qualifiers, so I am not trying to be alarmist or a fear monger, but it seems that each week (or day!) I am observing more things that in years past were unthinkable.

I always rolled my eyes at the Second Amendment people who thought they needed guns to protect themselves from an overreaching federal government. The bitter irony is that, of course, now these people don't want to protect themselves but seem to want to actively overthrow the government. During the last 8 years the right has armed itself to the teeth in hysteria over Obama, and my dad has opined to me that the left should do the same to protect themselves from the right. I rolled my eyes at his paranoia; I am not a gun person and I have never wanted a gun in my home. But after the last couple of weeks, I am starting to wonder if he is right. A violent right v. left confrontation doesn't really feel like silly Second Amendment fantasyland anymore. These people are armed and dangerous and are actively recruiting the police to their cause. Do I think some nationwide violent revolution is likely? No. Probably not even possible. But the fact that localized incidents involving police officers feels not-impossible is gut wrenching. And, if we stay on this trajectory, who knows how much worse the discourse will be in another four years?

On AskMe whenever someone says their gut tells them that something is making them nervous, everyone cites to The Gift of Fear and tells them to listen to their instincts. Right now I'm having that feeling I usually get in dark parking garages when I decide to hang back until I can walk with a group of people. I never thought that I could feel this way about my country, and I'm really not sure what we can do. Voting for Hillary is not enough since if anything that will likely be a catalyst to these people. This shit is terrifying, and stuff like Sheriff Clarke's tweets, the San Antonio hats, the screaming fury at the Trump rallies, the gaslighting and scapegoating, preemptively delegitimizing the election, sowing massive distrust in the mainstream media, marrying extreme rightwing media to the campaign itself, calls to jail the media and political opponents and lawyers... together these are things that I can see people looking back on in 20 years and asking "Why didn't they see [horribleness] coming? It was so damn obvious."
posted by gatorae at 11:15 AM on October 15, 2016 [72 favorites]


Nobody's claiming to have been his coke dealer in 1981 yet, and that always has to happen at some point.

oh man i wonder how many trump secrets died with steve rubell. i wonder what kind of dirt ian schrager is sitting on.
posted by poffin boffin at 11:17 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


Bill Richardson is on CNN stating that he loves Podesta and doesn't care if Podesta referred to him as a dick in a hacked email, calling it actual locker room talk, politically speaking. I find this hilarious.
posted by xyzzy at 11:17 AM on October 15, 2016 [31 favorites]




WaPo Donald Trump isn’t going to like this new report about his campaign’s impact on his businesses
On Friday, the location-based app Foursquare released new data supporting that idea. The app, which allows its users to “check in” at locations they visit, shows that foot traffic to Trump-branded casinos, hotels and golf courses continues to be lower than it was before his candidacy, especially in blue states.[...]

[In Blue states] Foursquare data shows that the visit share to Trump properties in September 2016 was down 19 percent compared to two years prior,
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:19 AM on October 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


Trump surrogate on MSNBC, in response to the "wouldn't be my first choice" comment, says that it means "it didn't happen."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:20 AM on October 15, 2016


FWIW, Katy Tur is making mincemeat of this surrogate.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:21 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


Rick Hasen: (Literally) Waking Up to the Danger of Trump’s Vote Rigging Comments to Democracy
Trump has been making these statements for months, essentially claiming without any credible evidence whatsoever that racial minorities and labor unions in Democratic areas like Philadelphia will use voter impersonation. Trump’s comments are a natural outgrowth of the kind of voter fraud hysteria we’ve seen from some Republicans for the last decade and a half.
[...]
What can be done? Ned Foley nails it for what should happen if Trump fails to concede: “To my mind, what will be key is the conduct and statements of Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell as the leaders of the Republican party in Congress. If they publicly concede that Trump has lost, and the media appropriately reports the significance of their concession, the nation’s democratic system can take that as the requisite sign of closure, whatever antics Trump might engage in.”

But Ryan and McConnell need to STEP UP NOW. They should not be wimps. They should condemn this rhetoric as dangerous and say that we all, Democrats and Republicans and those of minor or no parties, support the rule of law. We will all accept the results of the election. And Donald Trump’s comments are dangerous and irresponsible.

And then after the election, maybe Republicans like Kit Bond, McConnell and Ryan can do some soul searching and call off the dangerous voter fraud rhetoric that got us here in the first place.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:22 AM on October 15, 2016 [19 favorites]


The BBC has an article about Egg! He's gone international.
posted by annsunny at 11:22 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


tivalasvegas: It'd be better for Kirkpatrick to win than for Clinton to win AZ, since she'll be way past 270 by the time the blue tide hits your state. But yeah, it'd be great for Joe Arpaio to have to deal with the fact that he now lives in an officially Blue state. (Plus he might be in jail...)

Unless things have changed a lot recently, Kirkpatrick has very slim chances of ousting McCain; for some reason, a lot of people still seem to think he's an honorable guy. He also has very high name recognition going for him.

My biggest worry is that, assuming Clinton does indeed already have the election in the bag early on, voter turnout will be low. We need to show up in huge numbers: that's how you really send a message that will be heard loud and clear, not by voting third party. Not to mention it's how you actually get rid of vile scum like Arpaio and, if nothing else, light a fire under McCain to let him know he can't assume he has a mandate among Arizona voters.
posted by Superplin at 11:22 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Donald's brother died of alcoholism, it would be very easy for Donald to justify prescription drugs for any use without even resorting to TrumpLogic™.

that's what terrifies me about this whole situation more than anything - the fact that he is not being shut down based on the ideas, but based on -him-. I can only predict that 2020 is going to be even uglier, with a more savvy candidate willing to espouse the same hateful and isolationist policies stepping in to fill the vacuum

This is the part where the Republican Party can be destroyed. The Party produced him, the Party doesn't have anybody better. The Party has delegitimized itself by foisting all of this on the nation. Like free speech, free elections mean a party can put up whoever they want, but that doesn't mean they won't get a reaction. If Republicans had any shame they would call it a wrap and choose a new name, even if it means we get a splinter party for the 88 crowd.

On that point I bet the FBI has been creaming their jeans as Donald has brought the white-man power crowd out of the shadows. The extremists say "finally, a voice for us!" while the spotlight warms up. It's like if the Democrats nominated the spokesperson for the Earth Liberation Front.
posted by rhizome at 11:23 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


>I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.

>Am I a bad person?

I seem to recall that in Steal This Book, Abbie Hoffman recommended taping a postage-paid card to a brick and dropping it in the mail. Less likely to be delivered, but more satisfying as a symbolic gesture, I guess.


Send them a Galaxy Note 7.
posted by pjern at 11:23 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


Send them a Galaxy Note 7.

I believe that qualifies as terrorism.
posted by MrVisible at 11:25 AM on October 15, 2016 [24 favorites]


“Trump said to watch you precincts. I’m going to go, for sure,” said Steve Webb, a 61-year-old carpenter from Fairfield, Ohio.

“I’ll look for . . . well, it’s called racial profiling. Mexicans. Syrians. People who can’t speak American,” he said. “I’m going to go right up behind them. I’ll do everything legally. I want to see if they are accountable. I’m not going to do anything illegal. I’m going to make them a little bit nervous.”


The good news is he doesnt know how to set his Facebook profile to private so he's had a very interesting saturday morning.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 11:25 AM on October 15, 2016 [55 favorites]


FWIW, Katy Tur is making mincemeat of this surrogate.

Boris Epshteyn is a terrible excuse for a human being.
posted by Talez at 11:26 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


@JoshuaHol GOP candidates are being outspent in key senate races...

@EmptyWheel It makes me weep that GOP is cash poor after 17 candidates spent record amounts of cash in primary only to pick Trump.


Politico Senate GOP faces late cash crunch

Democratic candidates and groups are set to spend more on TV ads in seven of eight key Senate states over the final four weeks.

Republicans say they are particularly concerned that Democrats will use their financial advantage to tie the GOP candidates to an increasingly toxic Trump, who is now besieged by numerous accusations of sexual assault. In the New Hampshire Senate race — where Democrats have seized on GOP Sen. Kelly Ayotte’s errant debate comment that Trump “absolutely” was a role model for children, which she hastily retracted — Democrats have booked nearly $16 million of TV airtime between Oct. 11 and Nov. 8, while Republicans have set aside over $12 million, according to a media tracking source. In Indiana, where another key contest is unfolding, Democrats are set to air over $7 million worth of commercials during the same time frame, while Republicans have booked around $4 million.

And in Pennsylvania, the gap is particularly large. Democrats, who tied Republican Sen. Pat Toomey to Trump in another new ad last week, have reserved $17 million of TV airtime there — more than double the $8 million Republicans are set to air.

It could get worse. As Hillary Clinton pulls away from Trump, Republicans are worried Democrats will shift resources down-ballot. The Democratic super PAC Priorities USA, which has been dedicated to electing Clinton, is considering investing in several Senate races.
I no longer believe that money wins races after seeing $100s of millions frittered away on useless campaigns like Jeb!'s and Meg Whitman's but let's hope it does some good.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:29 AM on October 15, 2016 [18 favorites]


People who can’t speak American

Does he mean, like, Algonquin? Navajo? There's quite a lot of American languages really
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:29 AM on October 15, 2016 [60 favorites]


The BBC has an article about Egg! He's gone international.

I think over there they call him a Royale with Muffin.
posted by cashman at 11:29 AM on October 15, 2016 [85 favorites]


Insightful, humorous and germane article in Cracked about this election being "Rurals vs. Cityfolk."
posted by rhizome at 11:31 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


It's weird how news articles keep misspelling "domestic terrorists" as "militia members".
posted by ckape at 11:34 AM on October 15, 2016 [57 favorites]


The BBC has an article about Egg! He's gone international.

Any minute now he'll be a Scotch Egg.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:34 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


> Also can someone please photoshop a Trump themed cover of that NIN album? Because it's only one letter and Petty Hate Machine is totally his thing. TIA.

I lost count of how many times I saw “Juanita Broaddrick” in these threads and thought “wtf has Justin Broadrick got to do with this”
posted by farlukar at 11:36 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


That's a lot of qualifiers, so I am not trying to be alarmist or a fear monger, but it seems that each week (or day!) I am observing more things that in years past were unthinkable.

At this point, I'm assuming there will be violence of some kind after the election. I voiced this concern on Facebook, and others feel the same.

I've been putting serious thought into what I can do to prepare for unrest. Keeping some non-perishable food and five-gallon jugs of water on hand seems prudent even in normal times, but it's taken the insanity of this year for me to actually make a list and go to the store. I've done some light scrubbing of my Internet presence to remove the most egregious political stuff. And I've started an honest-to-God list of other prep to consider if things start looking worse.

This election has fucking turned me into a prepper. God, I hope I can look back and laugh at how silly I was being in October 2016.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 11:38 AM on October 15, 2016 [12 favorites]


I no longer believe that money wins races after seeing $100s of millions frittered away on useless campaigns like Jeb!'s and Meg Whitman's but let's hope it does some good.

I'm skeptical about the value of advertising in general but I think the problem in the primary was genuinely that Trump was bringing in a groundswell of Republican general election voters that typically hadn't voted in primaries before this year. So while traditional ads were maybe persuading the typical GOP primary electorate, Trumpists were already on the Deplorable Express and positioned to overtake the establishment candidates.

Let's not forget that the primary wasn't inevitably Trump's to win. Jeb, Marco, Chris, Carly and whatever other moderate [sounding] candidates there were stuck around for way too long and crowded up their own lane while Trump zoomed ahead in the white nationalist lane and Cruz did the same in the evangelical lane. But I think if four or five of these frontrunners had actually sat down and agreed to coordinate for the good of the party and nation, they could've gotten one of their own to come back.

The candidates, however, were too selfish to work together, too confident that their party wasn't fundamentally full of racists and misogynists, and too callous to care about what Trump would do to the nation.

In a hundred years, textbooks will give this example when explaining the tragedy of the commons.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:40 AM on October 15, 2016 [23 favorites]


> "I wonder if there is anyone who can come forward who he as assaulted more recently than 10 years ago."

Cassandra Searles says that in 2013, he "continually grabbed my ass and invited me to his hotel room".

An unnamed woman has said that in 2010, "Trump took Tic Tacs, suggested I take them also. He then leaned in, catching me off guard, and kissed me almost on lips. I was really freaked out. ... After (the meeting), Trump asked me to come into his office alone. Was really unsure what to do. ... Figured I could handle myself. Anyway, once in his office he kept telling me how special I am and gave me his cell, asked me to call him. I ran the hell out of there."
posted by kyrademon at 11:41 AM on October 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


I've said before that as bad as Trump and his campaign has been for the Republican Party, the awful reaction Trump and his supporters have to his loss will be more damaging to the Republican Party's future. Sadly, I see no reason to think differently.
posted by chris24 at 11:43 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


tivalasvegas: There also appeared to be the matter of SuperPACs and dark money calling the shots and adopting candidates with different names but similar potential constituencies or bases, instead of party leaders getting behind a single candidate, or coalescing behind one or two. But then the Koch brothers, who had an unfathomable amount of money to spend this year, never endorsed anybody, were undecided between five candidates, already. I haven't seen a good study or analysis of all this yet, however.
posted by raysmj at 11:53 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


The part about making her take a mint makes me cringe so hard: Making her minty fresh makes it more pleasurable for him to assault her.
posted by mochapickle at 11:55 AM on October 15, 2016 [16 favorites]


I think we might have talked about this before, sorry. But what do you guys do for people with no soliciting signs when you're out canvassing? I am pretty uncomfortable with knocking anyway like the campaign says to.
posted by gerstle at 11:55 AM on October 15, 2016


Insightful, humorous and germane article in Cracked about this election being "Rurals vs. Cityfolk."

That article got picked over pretty thoroughly in I think it was the last thread, but I think one thing the article doesn't take into account is the brain drain rural areas face when folks leave their hometowns, not only for the greater economic and cultural opportunities provided by cities, but to get the Hell away from the narow-minded, backwards redneck horse shit that festers in a lot of small town America. With "white flight" in the other direction adding to the divide, and to the narow-minded, backwards redneck horse shit.
posted by Trinity-Gehenna at 11:56 AM on October 15, 2016 [20 favorites]


That article also completely ignores rural areas that are predominantly non-white, and uses "rural" as basically a euphemism for "white" so as to shrug off the idea that this election might have anything whatsoever to do with race. Which is disingenuous to say the least.
posted by Sara C. at 11:58 AM on October 15, 2016 [23 favorites]


what do you guys do for people with no soliciting signs when you're out canvassing

Not an answer to your question, but I keep running into people who are annoyed that canvassers exist, and I want to strangle all of them.

ITS YOUR CIVIC DUTY TO VOTE. DONT BE MEAN TO PEOPLE JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE YOUR RIGHTS ARE RESPECTED JESUS CHRIST ON A GORRAM CRACKER
posted by Sara C. at 11:59 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


We got into the No Soliticing signs thing pretty heavy about 20 threads ago.

In short, it's not fair to assume that people with No Soliticing signs are in any way less engaged in the political process than anyone else.
posted by mochapickle at 12:04 PM on October 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


It's weird how news articles keep misspelling "domestic terrorists" as "militia members".
If conservatives could just say the magic words "radical right-wing terrorism" we could do some extreme vetting and figure out what the hell is going on. They should call upon Republicans and conservatives to monitor their communities and contact the FBI if they become suspicious of their neighbors.
posted by xyzzy at 12:04 PM on October 15, 2016 [82 favorites]




Canvassers also exist outside the context of elections, let alone particularly notable ones, and so people have lots of opportunities to develop an abiding annoyance at the phenomenon, regardless of whether it's an effective tool or for a cause they might or might not otherwise agree with. Canvassing consists of to varying degrees willfully violating basic social expectations and then exploiting random people's willingness to be polite and accommodating in the fact of that violation. Even if it's for a good cause, it is inevitably gonna bother some folks, sometimes a lot.
posted by cortex at 12:07 PM on October 15, 2016 [41 favorites]



>I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.

>Am I a bad person?


Y'see, I'd do that, but with a long smear of Marmite on it.

That would make me a very bad person. Plus, it could be construed much as sending random white powder in envelopes can be construed as fake anthrax terrorism, with police and courts and non-consensual career breaks, so I'd be far too chicken to actually do it.

But I like to think that I could.
posted by Devonian at 12:08 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


The only thing sadder, to me, than the press showing these women at Trump rallies saying they don't believe the accusers is the women who are saying it in front of their little girls. There's nothing like telling them off the bat that their own parents won't believe them if they report an assault.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:08 PM on October 15, 2016 [68 favorites]


I was thinking about all the misery that Trump has caused during his time on earth. Some people are born and spread sweetness and light. Others...

He has hurt several members of his family with his coldness and calculating behavior.

He has stiffed hundreds of workers and business owners, causing some to go out of business.

He has conned thousands of people out of their life savings and driven them deep into debt for little return on their investment.

He has groped unknown numbers of women causing them shame, embarrassment, and anxiety.

And now his true fans are going to be crushed when they discover their god has feet of clay. I'm not talking about the alt-right or White Nationalists but those poor deluded people who were normal (i.e. slightly racist, homophobic, and sexist) Republicans who have bought into Trump's fantasy world-- the one where he is going to "make all your dreams come true." What happens when the election is over and he has lost? The lucky ones will have the scales fall from their eyes. The unlucky ones? They will continue to believe in all of his lies and promises and buy into his myth that the election was rigged by an evil conniving woman and the global powers that she works for. Their lives will be full of bitterness and anger.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:09 PM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


But I think if four or five of these frontrunners had actually sat down and agreed to coordinate for the good of the party and nation, they could've gotten one of their own to come back.

I'm not sure if this is a thing that has been discussed to death at this point (guys, these threads move so, so fast), but is there a reason that the past few Republican primaries have had this clown car phenomenon where 15+ people, most of whom obviously have zero chance of becoming President, join the race?

In contrast, this Democratic primary season saw exactly two entrants, and the mainstream media seemed unprepared to hear that anyone at all was interested in the non-frontrunner. 2012 is a nonstarter obviously, but even in 2008 you saw a relatively limited field populated by only serious candidates who the average person would consider reasonably qualified to become President.

If we can trace the Trump candidacy to the crowded field of Republican entrants and the concept of the "novelty candidate" for President, why isn't this happening with the Democrats?
posted by Sara C. at 12:11 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Some people have illnesses, or kids with special needs, or any of a gajillion other circumstances that make random strangers ringing their doorbell a huge problem for them.

But even absent that: a no soliciting sign is like the simplest, most primordial form of personal boundary I can think of. If you choose not to respect that you are the one in the wrong.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:12 PM on October 15, 2016 [50 favorites]


Wikileaks releases 3 Clinton Goldman Sachs speeches (see attachments tab)
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 12:13 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Some people have illnesses, or kids with special needs, or any of a gajillion other circumstances that make random strangers ringing their doorbell a huge problem for them.

Definitely not what I was referring to when I mentioned people being irrationally angry at people who just want to register them to vote. I'm definitely talking about able bodied single/childless 20 and 30 somethings who have the ability to say, "No thanks, already registered" and politely move on.
posted by Sara C. at 12:16 PM on October 15, 2016


@ DavidMackauTrump camp says they raised $100m in September, including $2m from Trump himself

He has attached a copy of the fundraising report.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:16 PM on October 15, 2016


Definitely not what I was referring to when I mentioned people being irrationally angry at people who just want to register them to vote. I'm definitely talking about able bodied single/childless 20 and 30 somethings who have the ability to say, "No thanks, already registered" and politely move on.

I mean...you don't really know that, is the thing. People have invisible illnesses! I have one! It sucks, and it means delivery guys leaning on my bell for the unit below me is an actual problem for me. Ignore "no soliciting" signs at your own peril, I guess.

ETA: I would look an awful lot like an able bodied thirty something without kids. And yet.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:20 PM on October 15, 2016 [28 favorites]


t is there a reason that the past few Republican primaries have had this clown car phenomenon where 15+ people, most of whom obviously have zero chance of becoming President, join the race?...If we can trace the Trump candidacy to the crowded field of Republican entrants and the concept of the "novelty candidate" for President, why isn't this happening with the Democrats?

Because of the Democratic Party control and process that everyone loves to hate. This is what it does: produce strong, viable candidates. also recall in 2008 the field was initially a lot wider - there were at least 8 primary contenders - it's not inevitable
posted by Miko at 12:22 PM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


> "In contrast, this Democratic primary season saw exactly two entrants ..."

Six. Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, Martin O'Malley, Lincoln Chafee, Jim Webb, and Lawrence Lessig.
posted by kyrademon at 12:23 PM on October 15, 2016 [37 favorites]


Wikileaks pulled four quotes out of the speeches, all nuanced and thoughful. NOTHINGBURGER, again.
posted by argybarg at 12:24 PM on October 15, 2016 [14 favorites]


I totally forgot about O'Malley. He was even in the debates and it's just a blank.
posted by mochapickle at 12:26 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


I think one of the big things was that Clinton actually has the organizational and negotiating skills Trump claims to have and was able to run up the endorsements way ahead of time and convince basically every other viable potential candidate in her own party to sit this one out.
posted by ckape at 12:28 PM on October 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


is there a reason that the past few Republican primaries have had this clown car phenomenon where 15+ people, most of whom obviously have zero chance of becoming President, join the race?

1. Running for president is a way to spend OPM on doing relatively fun stuff for at least a few months.
2. Running for president on the GOP side has been a way to get on (or stay on) the wingnut welfare circuit.
3. The wingnut welfare circuit perpetuates candidates who believe themselves "next in line" (Santorum, Huckabee, Perry) based on their performance in the previous cycle.
4. There's also a "now or never" set of candidates, along with the belief that governors have a better shot at the presidency; the glut in GOP governors over the past decade (Jindal, Perry, Christie, Bush, Walker, Kasich, Huckabee, Pataki) divided the field.
5. The fundamentals in 2016 looked pretty good for the GOP, given Clinton's unfavourables and how it's historically been difficult for one party to hold the presidency for three terms.
posted by holgate at 12:29 PM on October 15, 2016 [23 favorites]


Argy, the speech transcripts are in the attachments tab.
posted by xyzzy at 12:29 PM on October 15, 2016


I know, I'm just saying those were the most "damning" passages they could find.
posted by argybarg at 12:31 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Andrew O'Hehir on (what led to) this past week: Fifty Shades of Donald Trump (Salon).

"I wish I believed in a literal hell, because I want there to be a special place in it for all the people who made Donald Trump possible..."

Among others, he names David Brooks. Good.
posted by kingless at 12:31 PM on October 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


2. Running for president on the GOP side has been a way to get on (or stay on) the wingnut welfare circuit.

Exactly. Don't forget Sheriff Clarke has a new book to sell and he's heavily promoting it now. He'll do anything to get in the headlines.
posted by mochapickle at 12:33 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


I am despondent at Paul Ryan's failure to do even the smallest, easiest bit of the right thing. Be a fucking human being.

The Ryans and McConnell's of this country feel no responsibility or loyalty to the country. For them, the right thing is "the right thing for Republicans."

And there is no room for "win-win" in their philosophy of governance. If they denounced Trump it would be good for everyone -- but for them, it's not a win unless the liberals also lose.
posted by invincible summer at 12:37 PM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


Martin O'Malley, Lincoln Chafee, Jim Webb, and Lawrence Lessig

Oh god I completely forgot about all of these people.

Which kind of proves my point, in a way?
posted by Sara C. at 12:38 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


The fundamental difference I see between the two parties isn't the different mechanisms. It's the different goals. Fundamentally the Democratic Party believes in good governance first and disagree about ideology. The Republican Party puts ideology before competence.
posted by Francis at 12:41 PM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


Latino USA #1642 - The New Deciders (podcast, ~ 54 minutes)

From the blurb on the page:

...Latino USA travels to swing states and tells stories from the communities that are shaping politics today—in ways you might not expect. We hear from the powerful Latino Evangelical community of Florida, Muslim Americans in Cleveland and Black Lives Matter activists in North Carolina.
posted by kingless at 12:42 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


I mean...you don't really know that, is the thing.

I'm talking about people I know well in real life. So either, yes, I would know that, or they are keeping a very deep secret. And I can't really go around assuming that literally everyone I know, even my closest friends, probably have completely separate secret personalities that *only* come out when it comes to their attitudes about political canvassers.

Either way, Cortex kind of answered what I said and this is officially a derail.
posted by Sara C. at 12:43 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


I've never been a fan of early voting. Say this year you're a fan of Trump but the pussy tape changed your mind, but you just sent in your ballot. What do you do?
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 12:47 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Contextually, we were talking about people who ignore no solicitation signs, so apologies if that was not relevant / we missed each other in the thread.

The Ryans and McConnell's of this country feel no responsibility or loyalty to the country. For them, the right thing is "the right thing for Republicans."

Yeah, Pence's "I'm a Christian, a conservative, and a Republican, in that order" is looking pretty damn prophetic right now.

Anyone ask him where "American" is in his list? Is it in the top 10?
posted by schadenfrau at 12:48 PM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
Nothing ever happened with any of these women. Totally made up nonsense to steal the election. Nobody has more respect for women than me! [real, sounds fake]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:49 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


So, after the second debate my husband (who was definitely a connoisseur in college) was absolutely sure that Trump was snorting coke. He's not a metafilter guy, he did not pick up the theory on the internet, he just said that Trump's sniffles and his behavior were, to my husband, pretty unmistakable signs of cocaine use. I shrugged and said that while it was possible, I found it unlikely that he would be that goddamn stupid or - at least - that his handlers would let him be that goddamn stupid. (I know, I know.)

I just read that Trump wants to drug test Clinton before the next debate and I am honestly speechless. My husband is smug but I am flabbergasted because of course. Of course he's on drugs. And of course he needs to preemptively claim that she's the one who is doing drugs. What the actual fuck, 2016.
posted by lydhre at 12:49 PM on October 15, 2016 [49 favorites]


I've never been a fan of early voting. Say this year you're a fan of Trump but the pussy tape changed your mind, but you just sent in your ballot. What do you do?

You contact your county's board of elections and ask for them to invalidate your ballot and put in another one.
posted by Talez at 12:49 PM on October 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


I apologize if this has been posted already - I haven't been able to read everything in this thread - but this Guardian piece Dangerous Idiots: How the liberal media elite failed working-class Americans is a fresh look at the mass media narrative of Trump's white racist working-class support, and pushes at whether that's really true, and if not, why it is that we hear so little of Trump's white racist affluent suburban support
primary exit polls revealed that Trump voters were, in fact, more affluent than most Americans, with a median household income of $72,000 – higher than that of Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders supporters. Forty-four percent of them had college degrees, well above the national average of 33% among whites or 29% overall. ...These facts haven’t stopped pundits and journalists from pushing story after story about the white working class’s giddy embrace of a bloviating demagogue."
It goes deeper than that, and is really a strong and provocative piece that touches on issues of class contempt, the urban/rural divide, and the pervasiveness of racism.
posted by Miko at 12:49 PM on October 15, 2016 [33 favorites]


Well, I am reading the actual speeches and am sort of blown away by how incredibly intelligent this woman is. She is being asked questions and replying with off-the-cuff analysis sprinkled with quotes from Winston Churchill and deep historical contexts. Bernie's assessment of her insider Wall Street relationship was unfair and I am a bit annoyed that she was probably paralyzed by an NDA on this speech release issue.
posted by xyzzy at 12:50 PM on October 15, 2016 [64 favorites]


Same thing that happens if another tape is released on November 10th. For informed voters there shouldn't be much left to disclose at this point that will change your mind. The odds of that disclosure are going to only diminish between now and Election Day. We've had over a year to look at these folks by now.
posted by humanfont at 12:52 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


is there a reason that the past few Republican primaries have had this clown car phenomenon where 15+ people, most of whom obviously have zero chance of becoming President, join the race?

Because the Republican core ethics: smaller government, support for businesses, support for local community values, faith-friendly government, etc. - which are all decent premises on which to build a government - clash heavily with the recent (past few decades) focus on racism, sexism, and religious extremism.

They look superficially similar, like one set would lead to the other. But they don't - real support for "anti-abortion" politics would mean support for contraceptive access, information about birth control, paid maternity leave, and accessible child care. The other stances have similar problems: support for real "religious freedom," comparable to pharmacists not being required to fulfill birth control pill prescriptions, would mean allowing Muslims to work at a supermarket but not ring up purchases involving pork; would mean allowing Pagans to take off work on their holidays without penalty.

A Republican in favor of birth control access and subsidized childcare is a non-starter, and it doesn't matter how much they talk about reducing abortions and supporting families. The majority now insists that women need to be punished for having sex, preferably with forced pregnancy; any message that denies that, gets rejected.

They do have a great many decent people who don't want to be the bigot party, who are actually plenty tolerant of diversity, who want growth and change - they just don't want to lose the value of the families and communities that are already doing good things. So there's an invisible schism between bigots and traditionalists, and candidates have to split their messages between those groups.

Nobody is going to do that well. Nobody is qualified to both promote communities as the foundation of prosperity, and to block all the innovation and growth that's brought through diversity. They can't even rely on "bring back the 50's" as a message... nobody wants 50's level tech in our business and schools. All the candidates have to waffle in one direction or the other... so you get swarms of candidates, none of whom stand out as "solid" because they're all trying to send a split message.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:53 PM on October 15, 2016 [14 favorites]


Earlier I mentioned Trump's crazy twitter rant the night Romney lost. You can see it here:

Donald Trump Goes On An Epic Rant On Twitter After Obama Wins
posted by chris24 at 12:54 PM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


I've been putting serious thought into what I can do to prepare for unrest … This election has fucking turned me into a prepper.

I've been joking with my coworkers about building a bomb shelter. Part of it is that I'm almost done with my current hobby project, and digging a hole in the basement actually sounds kind of fun. Another part of me I'm uncomfortable to acknowledge actually believes it would be useful. I've even started jokingly selling shares of the bomb shelter to finance its construction, though nobody has bought in yet. Seems like a good idea to chew on for a year.

Then today I'm reading more about this fucking election and an idea pops into my mind that maybe it would a good idea to have guns for my hypothetical bomb shelter. I've never owned a gun and would never want one, and I'm thinking about what kind of mix of weapons I would stock in my bomb shelter and what. the. fuck. I would be that guy with a gun who would have it stolen from him and then get shot by my own gun, because I am not a warrior. And also the whole live by the sword die by the sword etc. This. fucking. election.

I'm going to go clean the garage.
posted by localhuman at 12:56 PM on October 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


You contact your county's board of elections and ask for them to invalidate your ballot and put in another one. I see nothing suggesting one can do that looking at Virginia's Voting web site.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 12:56 PM on October 15, 2016


I am still fond of my theory: everyone else in the GOP primary was purposefully underperforming to set themselves up for the VP slot, so they would then have the access to find the war profiteering gold that Dick Cheney hid in the secret passages under Number One Observatory Circle.
posted by ckape at 12:58 PM on October 15, 2016 [17 favorites]


> I've never been a fan of early voting. Say this year you're a fan of Trump but the pussy tape changed your mind, but you just sent in your ballot. What do you do?

What if you waited and changed your mind because [allegation] and voted [other] on nov 8?
What if [allegation] turned out not to be true afterwards?

If people can't make up their minds in the last month of a year-and-a-half campaign, what does it matter?
posted by farlukar at 12:58 PM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


From 2012:

@realDonaldTrump
China is cooking up conspiracy theories that the Olympics are rigged. http://wapo.st/MClZtE They don't understand why they can't cheat.
posted by chris24 at 1:01 PM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


Well, I mean the Trump thing is true. So, I'm not talking a hypothetical here. And after a bit of more searching it appears in Virginia at least you can only void an unmarked absentee ballot, so once it's marked and sent in, that's it.

Now I do wish that voting started Friday before the official day and lasted all weekend. As it stands now I'll have to get up two hours early to vote, since Virginia thinks that closing the polls at 7PM is acceptable.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 1:04 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


A hidey hole in the basement would be scary. What if someone parked their car on your entrance hatch? Shivers.
posted by ian1977 at 1:04 PM on October 15, 2016


Back to birtherism:

@SopanDeb
Trump in Bangor, Maine referring to Obama: "...than the thousands and thousands that our president – quote – president..."
posted by chris24 at 1:04 PM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


So, we should probably bear in mind a lot of the candidates in the Republican "clown car" were basically irrelevant. Carson, Fiorina, Gilmore, Graham, Huckabee, Jindal, Pataki, Paul, Perry, Santorum, and Walker were either flash-in-the-pan candidates or never got any traction at all, and Christie didn't do much better.

On the Democratic side, the expected frontrunner remained the frontrunner the entire time, in spite of a strong second-place showing from the leftmost candidate. The minor candidates gradually dropped out, those two duked it out for a while, and the frontrunner won.

On the Republican side, the campaign of the expected frontrunner (Jeb Bush) instead completely collapsed. While that's happened before in various primaries, this year it left four candidates who each had a fraction of the base: a populist racist outsider making a surprisingly strong showing (Trump), a religious conservative with strong support among evangelicals but little support beyond them (Cruz), a traditional far-right conservative (Rubio), and what passes for a moderate among the Republicans these days with little support outside his home state (Kasich).

In spite of his strength in the polls, it was widely assumed Trump was a joke candidate who would eventually collapse, so for a long time he skated by largely unscathed while the others were happy to let him attack the minor candidates. But while it was widely assumed that the base would eventually coalesce behind Rubio, it actually never happened because the voting base was split too far and like Jeb he proved a weaker candidate than expected. So instead, Trump started picking up non-majority win after non-majority win, which put him farther and farther ahead because of the Republican preference for winner-take-all primaries. When Rubio dropped out, he was well out in front and neither Kasich or Cruz had enough of a base to stop Trump, so he sailed to a win with a minority of the votes cast but a majority of delegates.

This is, in part, because of the uneasy partnership between religious conservatives, economic conservatives, and racists that has characterized the Republican party in its modern incarnation. In this primary season in the absence of a strong unifying frontrunner, the splits showed heavily, allowing one of the extremes to burst through. To be fair, the Democratic side also has its splits, and this primary season highlighted the one between the leftists and the left-centrists, but a race split between two bases may perhaps show a lot less internal division than one among four.
posted by kyrademon at 1:06 PM on October 15, 2016 [19 favorites]


I've had similar thoughts localhuman. I kind of thing some kind of shotgun with buckshot or slugs. The important thing is to keep people out of arms reach of you.

But then you also need to practice (like, a lot) and you need to make sure it's not going to get stolen but it's still accessible. That's a lot of time and expense (even though I think shotguns can be pretty cheap) just to make sure that you're armed just in case.

If you haven't already, I might suggest upgrading the strike-plates on all of your exterior doors and making sure the locks are well made and in good shape. Also make sure all the screws are high-strength steel and long enough to reach into the frame of the house. This will make your house harder to rob.
posted by VTX at 1:07 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


What good does that do if a toddler could break your window with a pebble?
posted by ian1977 at 1:09 PM on October 15, 2016


In previous thread someone said Ron Howard should do the Arrested Development voice over on Trump statements.

Ala

"Trump: I never said 'X'
Ron Howard : 'He did'
*Cut to audio of Trump saying X."


Well we got the next best thing
posted by Twain Device at 1:09 PM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]




Your vote can't be invalidated if you vote in person absentee in Virginia as it is an ordinary paper ballot. There is no way to distinguish it from the other ballots.
posted by humanfont at 1:11 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


I kind of thing some kind of shotgun with buckshot or slugs. The important thing is to keep people out of arms reach of you.

But then you also need to practice (like, a lot) and you need to make sure it's not going to get stolen but it's still accessible. That's a lot of time and expense (even though I think shotguns can be pretty cheap) just to make sure that you're armed just in case.

If you haven't already, I might suggest upgrading the strike-plates on all of your exterior doors and making sure the locks are well made and in good shape. Also make sure all the screws are high-strength steel and long enough to reach into the frame of the house. This will make your house harder to rob.


This weird apocalyptic gun-fetish fantasy crap doesn't look any better on the left than it does on the right. Plus, it's totally fucking pointless. If society collapses to the point where you need any of that crap, none of that crap is going to be enough to help you anyway.
posted by dersins at 1:11 PM on October 15, 2016 [76 favorites]


Donald Trump Goes On An Epic Rant On Twitter After Obama Wins

I liked the bit where he believed the popular vote to be more important than the electoral college until more counting was done and it became apparent that had been lost too. I suspect we are going to have a repeat of that unless he loses by a very heavy margin.
posted by Artw at 1:12 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


I understand the prepper mindset is a way for some people to help soothe their fears (fears we are all experiencing due to this election), but for other people, hearing talk about bomb shelters and shotguns and canned food and being armed is extremely frightening and really ratchets up fear unnecessarily. I don't really have a solution to this problem or the right to silence anyone else, but if you want to ask for prepper tips, would you consider taking it to Ask Metafilter instead?
posted by sallybrown at 1:12 PM on October 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


The GOP has crowded primaries because a high profile candidate, after dropping out, can get a lucrative job as a FOX News commentator or another cushy conservative huckster post. There are no such consolation prizes on the Dem side, so those races are mostly limited to people with political goals.
posted by chrchr at 1:13 PM on October 15, 2016 [24 favorites]


Pathetic statement from Speaker Ryan's office (twitter):
"Our democracy relies on confidence in election results, and the speaker is fully confident the states will carry out this election with integrity."
I think that was actually worse than saying nothing.
posted by sallybrown at 1:19 PM on October 15, 2016 [37 favorites]


Regarding Trump and cocaine, I called it.
posted by Lyme Drop at 1:23 PM on October 15, 2016


The Republican Party puts ideology before competence

So much so that competence itself (personified by Clinton right now), along with facts and science (because they back up climate change, demographic change, effectiveness of health care and birth control access, and so on), have become the enemy.

I feel like in terms of violence we need to connect the dots between domestic terrorists and domestic violence. Because the first almost always seems to be precipitated by the second. In this year when women's voices have become much louder, we need to understand that it's not just Fox News and guns everywhere, it's very often men who have a history of abusing the women around them who go on to expand their targets. How many mass shootings are really about a woman leaving an abuser who decides to kill others along with her?

Domestic violence is one way future terrorists out themselves. If we pay more attention to it, we not only help current victims but prevent future ones.
posted by emjaybee at 1:23 PM on October 15, 2016 [125 favorites]


To be clear, there will be no bomb shelter for me or guns, and I'm not looking for advice on doing any of those things. If Minneapolis is subject to a nuclear weapon due to global thermo-nuclear war, I'm not sure that's a blast that I want to survive.
posted by localhuman at 1:23 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Going way back, but as far as no solicitation signs, maybe I'm a bad canvasser, but I respect them and mark the house "not home" which is basically punting. Someone will try to contact the voter, hopefully by phone rather than in person, but it won't be me.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:24 PM on October 15, 2016 [14 favorites]


I feel like in terms of violence we need to connect the dots between domestic terrorists and domestic violence. Because the first almost always seems to be precipitated by the second. In this year when women's voices have become much louder, we need to understand that it's not just Fox News and guns everywhere, it's very often men who have a history of abusing the women around them who go on to expand their targets. How many mass shootings are really about a woman leaving an abuser who decides to kill others along with her?

TAKE ALL OF MY FAVORITES THEY BELONG TO YOU NOW
posted by schadenfrau at 1:28 PM on October 15, 2016 [51 favorites]


I've lived in PA most of my life, only been in Virginia for three years. This week at two different places I was asked if I was registered to vote. A first in my 20+ years of being eligible.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 1:30 PM on October 15, 2016


Ashby Law just wrote a freaking essay on Twitter about (in this case debunking) rigged elections

As usual, storified so it's readable for people.
posted by Talez at 1:35 PM on October 15, 2016 [26 favorites]


Domestic violence is one way future terrorists out themselves.
This is an opportune time to point out that one of three radical right-wing domestic terrorists arrested this week expressed concern to an undercover agent that one member of their group was in the middle of a DV case and he was afraid that the woman involved would rat them out to the police.
posted by xyzzy at 1:37 PM on October 15, 2016 [36 favorites]


Is this thread only a day old
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:39 PM on October 15, 2016 [25 favorites]


GOP Mailer: We’ll Tell Your Neighbors If You Vote Democratic

MSNBC just picked this one up. Could gain some traction.
posted by Talez at 1:40 PM on October 15, 2016 [38 favorites]


Who is burping the thread?
posted by Oyéah at 1:40 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Is this thread only a day old

stop threadshaming us
posted by poffin boffin at 1:42 PM on October 15, 2016 [61 favorites]


GOP Mailer: We’ll Tell Your Neighbors If You Vote Democratic

MSNBC just picked this one up. Could gain some traction.


There are plenty of legit threats of voter intimidation, but this is not one of them.

"We’ll Tell Your Neighbors If You Vote Democratic" is not what that mailer is saying. Interpreting it as such is either disingenuous or paranoid nonsense.

The flyer is saying "if you do not vote, your neighbors can find out, because that is public information."

Campaigns on both sides of the aisle have been using this kind of messaging for quite some time, as it has been proven to increase turnout.

If the voters receiving this particular flyer are not, in fact, solid Republican voters, then this is evidence of incompetent targeting on the part of the NM Republicans, not intimidation.
posted by dersins at 1:48 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


GOP Mailer: We’ll Tell Your Neighbors If You Vote Democratic

I honestly don't get it - this is stupid, even by the standards of abject stupidity.

How does this get through enough layers of administration to end up in someone's mailbox?
posted by Mooski at 1:48 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


GreenPartyUS/DrJillStein: Reasons not to vote for #HillaryBecause she:
✔️ Rigged a primary
✔️ Bought the media
✔️ Wall Street bought her
✔️ Wants WWIII
✔️ Pushes fracking

So can anyone explain the US greens to me, because judging from the above they're about as crazy as Trump was before he went entirely off the rails. I'm more used to "well meaning, but maybe a bit optimistic" greens, so I find this a bit confusing.
posted by effbot at 1:49 PM on October 15, 2016 [36 favorites]


Speaking as someone who knows a Jill Stein superfan, both Stein and Trump supporters seem to read a lot of Russia Today and similar news sources.
posted by selfnoise at 1:52 PM on October 15, 2016 [18 favorites]


So can anyone explain the US greens to me, because judging from the above they're about as crazy as Trump was before he went entirely off the rails. I'm more used to "well meaning, but maybe a bit optimistic" greens, so I find this a bit confusing.

"We're the real left and we've got the extremist batshit crazy to prove it!"
posted by Talez at 1:52 PM on October 15, 2016 [18 favorites]


Messaging like that suggests to me that the Green Party thinks their potential voters are credulous idiots.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:53 PM on October 15, 2016 [27 favorites]


Campaigns on both sides of the aisle have been using this kind of messaging for some time, as it has been proven to increase turnout.

[cite]
posted by dersins at 1:54 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Though a working third party would be good that one is clearly run by idiots and should be ignored.
posted by Artw at 1:54 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm pretty much at the point at which I don't really care what she's saying at any given time. She's running behind a dead gorilla, some rando in a red sweater, and Deez Nuts. If you're a Green or want to support the Greens, best to focus on downticket candidates, which is something Stein steadfastly refuses to do. Which is sad, because at this point her rhetoric is harming her party, yet no one seems willing or able to challenge her on it.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:54 PM on October 15, 2016 [23 favorites]


I've taken to referring to Jill Stein as "The world's stupidest Harvard-educated doctor." This probably doesn't reflect all that well on me, but then again, lots of things don't...
posted by AJaffe at 1:57 PM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]


So as an fyi about the Russian hacks. I have a friend who works in cyber security and she is friends with one of the guys who looked into the DNC hacks and attributed them to Russia. She emphasized that the people working on it were some of the best in the world and they are really confident in their attribution because it's super rare to actually be able to definitively say where a hack came from.

And of course she also emphasized how dangerous it was to have a presidential candidate who refuses to listen to experts.
posted by threeturtles at 1:57 PM on October 15, 2016 [23 favorites]


I've taken to referring to Jill Stein as "The world's stupidest Harvard-educated doctor."

Only true because Ben Carson went to Yale.
posted by dersins at 1:58 PM on October 15, 2016 [111 favorites]


Manafort and Flynn are totes experts!
posted by Artw at 1:59 PM on October 15, 2016


it's not even that he won't listen or doesn't trust them, it's that he is 100% convinced that he knows better than they do. this smug braying cretin, this smear of undigested olestra, this fucking halfwit douchelord.
posted by poffin boffin at 2:02 PM on October 15, 2016 [24 favorites]


The actual Green Party has a mostly reasonable leftist platform that is stained by some naive ideological assumptions that don't translate well to real-world policy. DOCTOR Jill Stein is a supremely flawed messenger because she buys into the same batshit conspiracy shit that Trumpists do and her Veep just makes things worse by calling Obama Uncle Tom. I think the right way to do this stuff with our current political system is to form a strong Green Caucus within the House that is large enough to influence votes.
posted by xyzzy at 2:05 PM on October 15, 2016 [19 favorites]


I doubt the Obama would take the provocative step of publicly challenging Russia unless they felt pretty darn confident about the origin of the hacks.

It's entirely possible that Russia wanted the US to know they were behind it.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 2:06 PM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


Jared Yates Sexton in New Republic: Donald Trump's Campaign Has Become a Cult

(article on the rally he tweeted about Friday night)
posted by salix at 2:08 PM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


Don't vote for Jill Stein because she:

* Doesn't get parallel construction in a list
posted by ctmf at 2:09 PM on October 15, 2016 [48 favorites]


Understanding Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton's Tax Plans

Good ten minute summary.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:11 PM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


So it turns out that Vanity Fair's Editor's Letter is two pages long and on the second page Carter reminisces about some late, great SPY magazine hijinks, namely the time the magazine created a fictitious entity called the National Refund Clearinghouse to send checks for small amounts to various famous people, purely to see who would take the time and effort to cash them. The first round amount was $1.11. Whoever deposited it was sent another check for 64 cents. The third round, a check for 13 cents, went to two people. Donald Trump cashed his.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:13 PM on October 15, 2016 [47 favorites]


it's not even that he won't listen or doesn't trust them, it's that he is 100% convinced that he knows better than they do. this smug braying cretin, this smear of undigested olestra, this fucking halfwit douchelord.

For Trump, true vs false is totally irrelevant -- what seems to matter is simply if saying something will get people excited and agitated. He got a lot of mileage out of the birther nonsense, and I doubt he ever believed a word of it. If it gets the effect he is hoping for, he will say it.

It's a strategy that worked amazingly well during the primaries, but doesn't seem to have the same results in the general election.
posted by Dip Flash at 2:14 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


On Twitter, @kristinrawls has a tweetstorm on "an alarming co-mingling of some of the American left and right" that I think is worth reading. I've Storify'd it for your convenience (and added a note that this is not about Bernie Sanders, and nothing in this comment is not intended to in any way imply otherwise). I think this also touches on some of the issues that we've been dancing around in the MetaTalk thread.

This isn't a particularly new phenomenon: Theorists have long seen a sort of wrap-around effect as one gets farther away from "the establishment" on either side of the spectrum (horseshoe theory). Arguments against "the system" tend to resemble each other even as they come from very different places and philosophies. But as Trump gives a 24/7 international audience a taste of what used to be the far-right, we're confronted with this paradox more and more, and it can make us deeply uncomfortable. (If you want the TL;DR on the rant with full orchestration and five part harmony and stuff like that below, that was basically it: as Trump becomes more anti-establishment on the right, he increasingly resembles a mirror world version of anti-establishment talk on the left, and that squicks me out.)

Here's a kind of crap diagram I drew to illustrate this. The labels and exact placements are for illustrative purposes––I'm sure we could argue all day about which positions are "around the bend" and which ones aren't (especially since ideas like ending Social Security you previously never said out loud are increasingly mainstream views), and it really doesn't matter. In a normal election year, the Dem and Rep candidates are somewhere on the straight part of the spectrum, Jill Stein is around the bend to the left, and someone like Pat Buchanan is around the bend to the right (Gary Johnson is, I don't know, elevated a foot off the page because we're not modeling that axis here). The far left and the far right start to resemble each other a bit, but both represent a pretty small proportion of voters and a fairly small proportion of the voices we hear. But in 2016, the GOP candidate is far around the horseshoe's curve, bringing many of his supporters with him. When this happens, it produces a funny side effect: it shortens the imaginary distance between the far-left and the GOP candidate, as illustrated in crappy diagram #2. As evidence of this, I submit Jill Stein's tweet, linked here by effbot, which could have (minus the fracking perhaps) easily come from @RealDonaldTrump instead.

What this means is that it's really unsettling when language that wouldn't be all that out of place when talking about Occupy is coming out of Donald Trump's mouth, put there by the likes of Steve Bannon. It's even more unsettling when you add the ((())) that, whether Trump himself knows or cares that is there, white supremacists are hearing loud and clear. It puts us into a place where we need to reflect a bit: how is Trump's talk about the big banks and elites different from the left's? They're not at all the same critiques, but boy do the words sound uncomfortably similar. Likewise with the media. Complaints about the media failing our democracy have long been (a valid) left-wing staple. And now thousands of people are chanting "CNN sucks" at Trump rallies. Shouldn't I be happy? CNN does, in fact, suck. Donkey through a straw. They've sucked since well before this election, and you can just go watch Jon Stewart take on Crossfire 12 years ago for a compelling description of why. What the hell am I doing defending CNN? Shouldn't I be thrilled that so many other people, you know, agree with me? But hearing those Trump supporters chant isn't at all satisfying; it is the horrifying sound of fascism rejecting reality and calling for the elimination of any entity that could stand in their way by insisting that up is up and down is down.

And, not to get too meta in the main thread, I think we see a touch of that reaction in here (and I know I have with personal friends as well). When someone sufficiently far on the left anti-establishment side of the spectrum starts a discussion that starts to curve around the horseshoe, it feels weird; the similarity is too much and there's a natural tendency to push back, fairly or not. Just look at the discussion just upthread (not to pick on you guys) about building a bomb shelter and arming yourself, which wouldn't be at all out of place in a far right discussion. This is part of why sufficiently far left views seem to be getting pounced on so quickly in this thread: they're scary right now. When someone make even well-meaning and justified critiques from the left, they sound more and more like a Trump supporter, not through any fault of their own, but entirely because the right has shifted so far around the horseshoe. And there's a strong reflex to push back against that. To be clear, none of this is to say that people far to the left of Clinton are really secret Trump fascists or that they aren't committed to a more multicultural and just country in their own way, that they aren't looking at serious proposals to ban Muslims and deport millions at gunpoint with the same shock and horror as anybody else. And it's also not to say that concerns about the size and power of big banks are unwarranted or that we shouldn't be talking about the influence of money and special interest in politics or criticizing the problems with our media. But all those discussions are tainted now.

The problem is that Trump's language, and the actions of his supporters, makes these conversations increasingly hard to have. As Rawls puts it: "And the way we talk about the media now? Donald Trump has poisoned that too. It's hard to discuss actual problems in the media now without using the rhetoric he's used. He's not talking about inequality. He's not talking about how the media has fallen short. And whether we mean it to or not, the kind of conspiratorial rhetoric he uses has infected discussions of both banking and media this year. It's alarming, it should make us all a little more vigilant in making sure the left in this country doesn't collapse into the right." In a rational world, it would be a good thing that "both sides" are worried about the same thing––we could use that to find common ground and talk policy––, but nothing is rational anymore. Hearing Trump so cravenly invoke Bernie Sanders makes me want to take a shower. I should be happy that ideas like Bernie's could get national attention across the spectrum, but no, it's just really gross. Donald Trump has taken a dump in the "the system is rigged" swimming pool, and now the left can't swim in it without getting his crap, and that of his worst supporters, all over them. And thanks to his utter disinterest in policy, he has zero proposals to discuss how to start draining the pool a little bit. The same applies to criticism of the media, anything involving Wikileaks, US foreign policy, and more. He's ruined it all.

As Paul Simon put it in his birthday present to Leonard Bernstein amid despair in 1971, "Half the people are stoned and the other half are waiting for the next election / Half the people are drowned and the other half are swimming in the wrong direction." At this point, some of us just want the pool to be closed; discussion of important problems has been irreparably tainted by a fascist sexual predator and his supporters. And it's deeply sad that we can't have those discussions, but sometimes they're just too painful for me right now, and I'm trying to get some rest. That's all I'm trying, to get some rest.
posted by zachlipton at 2:15 PM on October 15, 2016 [105 favorites]


Phonebanking report! I've never volunteered for any campaign, but was motivated to make some calls so I sat down just now and made calls for about an hour. It's really easy and you don't have to wear pants. I called 50 people, of the 6 that answered 3 told me the person I was calling for wasn't available, and 3 were strong Clinton supporters. 2 were eager (but polite, I was calling the south) to get off the phone with me, and one was interested in chatting a bit about how demoralizing it is to see nice friends posting things about Trump on Facebook and he can't wait til the elections over so hopefully things calm down.

I also was calling almost exclusively old people (the youngest I saw was 45), and over half the time that it went to voicemail, it informed me that the mailbox was full and I couldn't leave a message (not that you're supposed to). Makes me feel a little sad for all the old people who probably don't know that's a thing or how to fix it...
posted by DynamiteToast at 2:18 PM on October 15, 2016 [16 favorites]


generally older and just want the digital shit to work

Mid-50s here, and I was writing code before you were likely born, unless you were born before 1981.
posted by spitbull at 2:25 PM on October 15, 2016 [14 favorites]


GreenPartyUS/DrJillStein: Reasons not to vote for #HillaryBecause she:
✔️ Rigged a primary
✔️ Bought the media
✔️ Wall Street bought her
✔️ Wants WWIII
✔️ Pushes fracking

So can anyone explain the US greens to me, because judging from the above they're about as crazy as Trump was before he went entirely off the rails. I'm more used to "well meaning, but maybe a bit optimistic" greens, so I find this a bit confusing.


My response to this tweet was along the lines of

Also, Hillary uses WiFi and vaccinated her kid. Scary stuff!

I'll take the Green Party seriously when they start acting seriously. As it stands they're basically running a joke candidate every four years and accomplishing nothing in between.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:26 PM on October 15, 2016 [17 favorites]


More sign updates:

I found myself on the East Side of Detroit today, and the East Side has, without a doubt, the densest aggregation of Clinton/Kaine (+downticket Dems) signage I have seen so far. Given that I work in Ann Arbor (home of the only Jill Stein sign I have yet seen), this is saying something. Of course, no part of Detroit is at any kind of risk of voting anything but Democratic, but the abundance of signs was still heartening.

Passing through Dearborn, a city that right-wing extremists would have you believe is controlled by sharia law despite its abundance of strip clubs and bars, there was a billboard written in Arabic except for the word 'Trump' at the end. Although I was driving I managed to catch that it was from the Nuisance Committee, the folks responsible for Cards Against Humanity, an anti-Trump billboard in Chicago and the anti-Trump Overwatch billboard in Orlando. There was a URL on the billboard, which said something like 'trumpisscared.com' but that site is just a blank page. Searching the googles brought up nothing, but I know what I saw!
posted by palindromic at 2:26 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Aha, it's trumpisscared.org, which is just his statement on the shutdown of Muslims entering the country.
posted by palindromic at 2:27 PM on October 15, 2016


I'm not caught up on the thread yet, just wanted to drop in a quick volunteer update. I'd been thinking about trying to help out somehow and when I saw kristi's post about the Metafilter call team I decided to give it a try.

The first call = super stressful. It went to voicemail. Second call, also pretty stressful, also went to voicemail. Calls three through five, all voicemail. The site said "yay you made five calls, can you make five more?" and I figured, well, I might as well keep at it until I get a live person at least.

It took another 10 calls but I did end up reaching someone live, and... they were super nice! And super enthusiastic about voting for Hillary in November! But they weren't the person I was supposed to reach, so I made a note in the call tool and we'll try them again. A few calls later I reached someone else live, also super nice, also enthusiastic about voting for Hillary, and they were interested in volunteering too, so I explained how the call site worked and they said they'd check it out today. (In fact the husband and wife both seemed open to volunteering, so that might be a twofer.)

Out of 30 calls today I only talked to four live people, but all of them were pleasant and receptive and the whole experience was way less painful than expected. If you're thinking about trying this but you're apprehensive about calling strangers -- I get that, I really really do. Social anxiety has been a huge challenge for me for most of my life (see also). If I had to leave my house to volunteer, I'd like to think I would, but there's a good chance I'd chicken out. But for this, I can sit here at my desk in my lazy Saturday morning sweats and slippers and bedhead, I don't have to go anywhere or see anyone, all I have to do is talk a little. The call tool gives you the next name and number along with a script for each call, and you can just click a button to record whatever responses you get. The only way it could be easier is if they actually dialed for you (and maybe the phone apps do this? I'm working from my desktop computer). I've actually been using Hangouts to make these calls, so I just copy and paste the phone number, and I'm using my headset, so my hands are free for clicking or typing up any notes.

Anyway tl;dr it's really easy and once you get through the first few calls it's really not that stressful, especially once you've had a good chat or two. And I know I'm not changing the world or anything here, and the unrelenting awfulness of this election cycle on display everywhere is still stressing me out, but it helps that I can say to myself: okay yes, this is terrible, but at least I'm doing a little bit to make it better. And in ten or twenty or thirty years when we're talking about the historic election of our first woman president, I can say to myself: not only was I there, I helped. I helped make that happen. That's worth spending a little time and overcoming a little social anxiety, I think.

(Now for the actually hard part: catching up on this thread...)
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 2:28 PM on October 15, 2016 [81 favorites]


"an alarming co-mingling of some of the American left and right"

Yeah, I've generally rejected the "wrap-around" effect you mention, but this election has given me serious pause. As far as I can tell, the Democratic Socialists are just about the only group on the left that's managed to the feat of maintaining its progressive/left values and orientation while still recognizing the significance of the threat that Trump poses:
DSA recognizes that a Trump “law and order” authoritarian administration would threaten the most elemental rights of immigrants, people of color, Muslims, women, workers and the LGBTQ community – as well as bring greater repression of left movements such as Black Lives Matter. Even bracketing the many other actions he could take through Executive Branch agencies or in league with a Republican-controlled Congress, Trump’s capacity to appoint at least two new Supreme Court justices alone would spell disaster for many of these communities. Further, having witnessed the radical rolling back of voting, labor, reproductive and immigrant rights brought about by Republican control of all three branches of government in 25 states – including Wisconsin, Michigan and Ohio – we have a clear picture of just how devastating GOP control of all three branches of the federal government would be. While we also vehemently oppose the pro-corporate, imperialist policies of neoliberal Democrats like Hillary Clinton, we recognize that defeating the authoritarian Donald Trump is a crucial step toward building both a strong opposition to neoliberal democrats as well as a powerful democratic socialist movement.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 2:29 PM on October 15, 2016 [36 favorites]


Oh hey, more reasons why Wikileaks is a fucking joke:

@wikileaks: Why has the US ruling party announced a physical war against Yemen on Wednesday and a cyber war against Russia today?
O To ensure a Clinton win
O For non-electoral reasons

What ruling party, you dipshits
posted by Existential Dread at 2:30 PM on October 15, 2016 [59 favorites]


I tend to think that ruling the USA would be no party.
posted by Oyéah at 2:37 PM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


that's ascribing a measure of intent that we can't know, and hasn't been proven

The Republican Party has been making voter intimidation and voter suppression a core part of its strategy for many years now, because they cannot win any election with high turnout. Any message they present that seems like voter intimidation, is voter intimidation. Their concerted, explicit actions have made this incontrovertible.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 2:37 PM on October 15, 2016 [36 favorites]


It's interesting how all the descriptions of stages in Glasl's Model sound really familiar. Not that that helps a lot, when there's nobody with the authority to intervene.
posted by ctmf at 2:48 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Here's an odd thought I just had: we hear Trump's word salad and think he just sounds incoherent and possibly unwell, but for the audiences he's speaking to, he is actually a talented and frightentingly effective orator.

He can whip a crowd into a murderous frenzy. He can float nonsensical conspiracies and, through endless parentheticals and implication and extermination of rational thought, get people to believe them. His breathtaking ability to lie and evade and unmoor conversations from any conventional notions of truth render him impervious to attempts to call out his gibberish (at least in the eyes of his followers). It's difficult to comprehend how anyone falls for it, but millions of them do.

Maybe it's time we stop treating his style of oratory as something to LOL at, and recognize it for what it is: a frighteningly (if bafflingly) effective form of demagogic manipulation. Now, to a large extent, it works because his audience wants to believe him - but that's the case in any authoritarian uprising.

He uses language in a way that is confounding and alien to folks who expect language to illuminate reality, but which has proven spectacularly effective for the purpose of inspiring a cultlike mentality among his followers. To laugh and say that his speech is absurd gibberish misses half the point. It is that, but it is also - for Trump's purposes - functioning exactly as intended.

(Yes, I know: "you know who else was a gifted orator?".)
posted by escape from the potato planet at 2:50 PM on October 15, 2016 [29 favorites]


I really, really dislike the wrap-around theory, because it assumes a false binary wherein there can be no overlap between left and right, all ideas must fall on one side or the other, and if ever those outside establishment politics begin to agree then it is a sign of trouble; not that there may be some fundamental shit wrong with the establishment itself.

I'm not even talking about silly to damaging crap like anti-vax or WiFi brain damage. I mean when someone talks about conflict of interest, overlaps between politics and business, or the corporatization of mainstream media. Raise these points to leftists and they'll think you reactionary; bring them up to conservatives and they'll think you're an extremist. It's maddening.

This two-party system is incredibly toxic, not least of all for the wrap-around theory, but mostly because it is predicated on a perpetual tug of war in a sorta copyright of ideas that must never stray or... I dunno, utter chaos will ensue or something.

I say all this operating under no delusions that everything can and must be done to stop Trump in the short term, while continuing to fight his ideas in the long term.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:50 PM on October 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


Yeah, I've generally rejected the "wrap-around" effect you mention, but this election has given me serious pause. As far as I can tell, the Democratic Socialists are just about the only group on the left that's managed to the feat of maintaining its progressive/left values and orientation while still recognizing the significance of the threat that Trump poses:

As an example of the wrap-around. Way back when, I first learned of Alex Jones from die-hard lefties who told me I should pay some attention to what he says this subject or that subject. (I didn't) It was confusing when I started hearing Alex Jones praised from the right because I thought he was a nutty left wing guy. All of the 911 Truther stuff I heard came out of the left, then it merged with Right wing 911 Truther stuff to the point where it's pretty much now the same. Weather control, illuminati type theory, global one world theory all came to my attention from left wing sources. So many of the conspiracies that the Alt Right, Trumpers and even Trump himself are spouting I've heard pretty much the same thing from the left.

At one time I was fairly active with far left groups. One of the reasons I left them was because of this sort of stuff. The other main one, besides life happening was that I could no longer stomach the hypocrisy around sexism and feminism that was prevalent in the culture of the groups and people in them.
posted by Jalliah at 2:51 PM on October 15, 2016 [23 favorites]


You know, if Jill Stein's actual goal was to appear to be a pseudo-Trump and peel off some conspiracy minded, internet fueled voters who would otherwise go for Trump but could be convinced to defect (if given ideological cover) since he's a creep and a predator -- in other words to play Egg McMuffin spoiler but from the other side of Trump's base -- it would look a lot like what she is currently doing.
posted by penduluum at 2:53 PM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


I would be very interested to hear more about the link between domestic violence and domestic terrorism that emjaybee hypothesizes above. I am totally prepared to believe that this is just a blind spot for me and am open to learning about this, but it honestly never occurred to me that domestic terrorists might be more likely to be abusers than other demographically-similar people, or that it might make sense to look at domestic abuse as a "gateway crime" to terrorism. (I do see xyzzy's supporting comment, but it only discusses one specific case.)

If anyone is willing to direct me to some resources that help shine some light on this, or if you have a good off-the-cuff argument that you'd be willing to present, then I'm all ears, truly. But I guess my instinct is that domestic violence is so pervasive and common across all groups of people (except of course that men are much more likely to be abusers and women are much more likely to be abused) that it isn't very predictive of domestic terrorism. I also don't see them as being very similar crimes, though again I'm open to persuasion. I see domestic violence as being fundamentally about control and possession, whereas I see terrorism as being more about xenophobia.

My mental image of a domestic terrorist is of a misfit, someone who feels that society has failed to provide them with the things they feel they deserve (which, yes, probably includes a partner—but one can't abuse a partner that one doesn't have) or who feels that society is decadent and sinful. In my mind, they don't usually have partners—they are alone, or exist within a bubble of like-minded extremists. If I am empirically wrong about that then I'd appreciate having my perceptions realigned, but that's where I'm at on this issue right now. I can't say I'd be happy to learn that terrorists are usually abusers as well, but I'd be appreciative if someone were to set the record straight.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 2:55 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I just joined. I just wanted to let all of you know that these election threads have been saving my sanity. I've lurked for a few years (ever since Planet Money did a story on Metafilter), but these threads and the awesome work of the moderators made me want to contribute. So thank you everyone!
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 2:57 PM on October 15, 2016 [153 favorites]


Domestic violence is one way future terrorists out themselves.

In the same way that suicide bombings are another way, I guess.

Domestic violence is domestic terrorism. The names spell out the "domestic" half, and the perpetrators and targets spell out the other half.
posted by queenofbithynia at 2:58 PM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


You know, if Jill Stein's actual goal was to appear to be a pseudo-Trump and peel off some conspiracy minded, internet fueled voters who would otherwise go for Trump but could be convinced to defect (if given ideological cover) since he's a creep and a predator -- in other words to play Egg McMuffin spoiler but from the other side of Trump's base -- it would look a lot like what she is currently doing.

If Stein and her campaign team were incompetent, narcissistic twits it would also look a lot like what she is currently doing.
posted by dersins at 2:59 PM on October 15, 2016 [35 favorites]


If Stein and her campaign team were incompetent, narcissistic twits it would also look a lot like what she is currently doing.

I should have been clearer -- this is definitely the case, whatever her ostensible motive or sincerity.
posted by penduluum at 3:07 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


She gave $4700 to clintons campaign? The wife of the Nebraskan governor I mean. Isn't the limit $2700?
posted by ian1977 at 3:07 PM on October 15, 2016


Here's a pop version of the link between domestic violence and terrorismI'm sure there is more out there, but it really started showing up in the media after the Pulse attack.
posted by instamatic at 3:08 PM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


Anticipation - something to get you started. Domestic violence links to radicalisation is one of many articles I've seen documenting the domestic violence-terrorism link. I hope it helps.
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 3:10 PM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


Nebraska's first Lady is supporting Hillary while her husband still supports Trump.

She (Susanne Shore) is a long-time advocate for children and child welfare who used to be a registered Democrat (and seems pretty interesting!).
posted by sallybrown at 3:10 PM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


Isn't the limit $2700?

$2700 for the primary, and $2700 for the general. You can't give for the primary after the official nomination, but you can give a total of $5400 during the primary and have it split between both.
posted by holgate at 3:11 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


My experience is yeah, a lot of Sanders supporters went to Stein as the last hope of winning the White House.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 3:11 PM on October 15, 2016


Those former Sanders bullets are now literally Trump bullets too, though, and for the same reason:Trump and Stein both think they can get Sanders voters. And Trump is too stupid (and HRC too strong a candidate and person) to think of any angle to attack her on. He definitely isn't doing his own homework.

I mean if you added another bullet that was like "*barely concealed hatred of all women everywhere" it would be his entire playbook on HRC.
posted by penduluum at 3:12 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


My experience is yeah, a lot of Sanders supporters went to Stein as the last hope of winning the White House.

That's a bit like your NFL team losing in the playoffs and deciding to cheer for Rutgers as your last hope of winning the Super Bowl.
posted by Justinian at 3:14 PM on October 15, 2016 [77 favorites]


she's getting outpolled by ken bone
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 3:18 PM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


I really, really dislike the wrap-around theory, because it assumes a false binary wherein there can be no overlap between left and right, all ideas must fall on one side or the other, and if ever those outside establishment politics begin to agree then it is a sign of trouble; not that there may be some fundamental shit wrong with the establishment itself.

That's a really good point. The problem is that this election has forced an incredibly strong binary between fascism (or, to be charitable, we'll include people who are fine being facism-adjacent if it means a shot at a lower marginal tax rate) and not-fascism. And lots of perfectly valid ideas in the overlap get pushed by the wayside, because they become associated with one side or the other and the other side is, according to your side, the bad one.

And the Trump side is weird, because it's anti-establishment, yet statist. It's a campaign of people who are terrified that the government will take away their guns, yet they cheer on the government suppressing publications they don't like, locking up people for their political views, investigating visitors' religions, and demanding papers from anybody who looks "foreign." This means that other anti-establishment critiques become tainted with the same statism, even when they're important criticisms of major problems in our government.

The wrap-around theory is indeed odious because it assumes a false binary, but this campaign has been all about binaries. That's not a good thing for civil discourse or our democracy, but it's where we are.
posted by zachlipton at 3:19 PM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]


good Saturday, everybody. catching up:

the threat was evident from at least 2009, when the conservative noise machine succeeded in making the DHS retract an analysis noting a sharp rise in right-wing domestic terrorist activity. The pressure from conservatives continued until they eventually gutted the unit focused on domestic terror.
Thanks Obama. He could have stopped them from gutting our efforts against White Racist Terrorists but I guess he thought it might help him make peace and get cooperation from the Republicans. When he failed to fight the destruction of the ACORN organization, I got a big 'uh oh' feeling. And he was so proud of how his campaign pivoted its acronym "OFA" from Obama For America to Organizing For Action, while leading the Democrats into a history-affecting loss in 2010. Part of me REALLY wishes Hillary had beaten him in 2008 so we could have had a real fighter in the White House for the last 8 years (and he could have gotten 8 more years of practical Washington experience that could have made him a better President).

bizarro GOP Senate candidate Jon Girodes (the one who suggested a KFC & watermelon event in Harlem, and sent a shirtless picture to a reporter) has just been arrested for rental fraud.
He was just following the Donald Trump Business Model, but not doing enough to establish himself as a 'local character' with the NY Liberal Media... or maybe they actually learned from their decades of empowering Dishonest Don.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:20 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Matt Yglesias on Twitter sums up the Democratic approach to Trump supporters post-election:
A lot of people seem to mistakenly believe that policy outcomes are driven by politicians’ psychic energies rather than by their policies.

Clinton will give the white working class more concrete economic resources; she won’t validate their fear of diversity and social change.

Trump, by contrast, will validate their fear of diversity and social change and will give an enormous tax cut to multi-millionaires.
posted by palindromic at 3:20 PM on October 15, 2016 [43 favorites]


That's a bit like your NFL team losing in the playoffs and deciding to cheer for Rutgers as your last hope of winning the Super Bowl.

I've tried to explain that to said people, that maybe a vote for Johnson would be a little better, since he's polling closer to 15% than Stein, but all I ever got back was 'Wikileaks is releasing X that will destroy Clinton, tomorow' for like 5 weeks in a row.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 3:20 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Skipping down to the bottom to make my first 'political encounter' report. Stationed at my public desk when a gnome-like old man ambles up to me and makes a cryptic statement about seven floors and up and down and nothing for him. It takes a lot of squinting and a couple of excuse-mes before I realize he's complaining that the public parking structure is full. I inform him that there's a big art show across the street and encourage him to go check it out. He declines excitedly, saying he doesn't have time! He's gotta get to work making sure she gets kicked out of office. I can't help myself and mention that Hillary Clinton isn't currently serving in office and he gets sort of blustery before asking me directly if I'm supporting her. I revert to my professional neutrality and start to ask him if he needed additional help when another elderly patron practically shouts, "I'm with her!" And they chase each other to the back of the library, bickering back and forth. Thankfully it didn't escalate before they piped down.

Anyway aside from the occasional MAGA hat that's the extent of the excitement in these deep blue parts.
posted by carsonb at 3:20 PM on October 15, 2016 [68 favorites]


I just joined. I just wanted to let all of you know that these election threads have been saving my sanity. I've lurked for a few years (ever since Planet Money did a story on Metafilter), but these threads and the awesome work of the moderators made me want to contribute. So thank you everyone!
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 5:57 PM on October 15


Welcome, obliquity! I lurked here for over fifteen years and finally signed up for an account because of these threads.

MetaFilter - helping preserve our collective sanity since 1999.
posted by Surely This at 3:21 PM on October 15, 2016 [60 favorites]


Guys, the thing that I'm really tired of is people who keep trying to prove to me that HRC is crooked or corrupt. I don't care if she's not far enough left for them. I don't care if they disagree with her on specific policies. But I am so freaking tired of people who keep trying to find evidence that she's not the fundamentally well-meaning, public-service-oriented politician that all evidence indicates that she is.

Today I had the thought: HRC's corruption is this year's birtherism.

Because despite tons of investigation by people not remotely sympathetic to her, there's zero evidence that Clinton is corrupt. But it's harder to disprove a negative (lack of corruption) than prove a positive (birth in a specific country).

And I really do think it speaks to a fundamental uneasiness we have with women in power -- that they can't gain it legitimately, if they have it they've cheated, and that if they want it, it's for nefarious ends. Lady Macbeth, Eve and the snake, every woman we've accused of "sleeping her way to the top," the whole, ancient, red-pill trope of the duplicitous woman. Sexism informs our view of Hillary as fundamentally bad and untrustworthy in the same way racism informs the birther view of Obama as fundamentally foreign.
posted by pocketfullofrye at 3:23 PM on October 15, 2016 [133 favorites]


This morning my husband and I participated in a grassroots Pantsuit Power Walk for Hilary in downtown Portland. There were just a handful of us but we proudly wore our rustic felt Hilary pins and had a blast. With all the recent negativity it was a relief to be part of something positive.
posted by heatherbeth at 3:24 PM on October 15, 2016 [23 favorites]




maybe a vote for Johnson would be a little better, since he's polling closer to 15% than Stein

But isn't that even more psychotic than someone who is already a progressive Democrat jumping ship for the more customarily progressive party?

I have friends from my NYC lefty days who vote Green every election. They're in the extreme minority in this country, but they vote according to their politics, and that's how it's supposed to work. I also have friends who live somewhere in the gap between Democrat and Green, who've decided to vote Green this year because they genuinely support Stein over Clinton for substantive policy reasons.

Jumping ship from a (slightly) more progressive major-party candidate to "a third party, any third party, even if its platform is literally the opposite of everything I say I want" is just nuts, and frankly suggests that hypothetical voters who do this are either misogynists or just trolling.
posted by Sara C. at 3:30 PM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Clinton will give the white working class more concrete economic resources; she won’t validate their fear of diversity and social change.
Trump, by contrast, will validate their fear of diversity and social change and will give an enormous tax cut to multi-millionaires.

That's why one of my greatest worries is that the violent reaction to Trump's loss will actually be LESS than if he were to win and implement policies that won't make 'his people' any better off (but put money in HIS pocket). His or the Republicans' "sudden but inevitable betrayal" would be the greatest recruiting tool for Militia/Terrorist groups ever (and a great sales boom for the NRA's gun manufacturers).
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:32 PM on October 15, 2016


And in other news, the NYT is at it again with the jabs against Hillary Clinton. Their lead story at the moment is: Clinton's Past Leaves Her Muted in Furor Over Trump. Sigh.
posted by peacheater at 3:32 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Fair and balanced!
posted by yhbc at 3:33 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


NYT Magazine: Anatomy of a Media Conspiracy, in which Mark Leibovich discusses some of the transnational dirty business behind his political profiles and how they play out in the Wikileaks emails.

He goes, in my opinion, way too far in trying to make some pretty problematic journalistic practices look ok, but it's a good read if you're into inside baseball, and I hope to see some responses to this from media critics soon.
posted by zachlipton at 3:34 PM on October 15, 2016


After all this is over and Hillary is elected, I kind of hope she finds some way to get Assange out of hiding and scoops him up. He's too dangerous as Putin's lackey to be left alone, and since he's apparently abandoned everything he ever stood for I'm ok with it now.
posted by Mitrovarr at 3:36 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


And in other news, the NYT is at it again with the jabs against Hillary Clinton. Their lead story at the moment is: Clinton's Past Leaves Her Muted in Furor Over Trump. Sigh.

What, in particular, is wrong with this bit of reporting? Seems pretty objective to me.
posted by dis_integration at 3:38 PM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Thank you, instamatic and obliquity. I'm not surprised to learn that domestic terrorists are also often also abusers, I guess. The part that surprises me most is learning that so many of these men had or have had partners to abuse in the first place, I guess—but then Donald Trump is a total shitheel and he's managed to get married three times, so I guess I'm not that surprised after all. But misogyny is a form of xenophobia, and it makes sense that people who are comfortable committing violence en masse and in public are also willing to commit it in their private lives.

The bit that I'm still having a hard time with is the idea that a history of domestic violence is a useful predictor of terrorism. There are unfortunately a vast number of abusers in the world—many millions in the U.S. alone—and almost none of them go on to commit terrorism, as far as I know. I am prepared to believe that many terrorists are also abusers, but I'm still not convinced that many abusers are also terrorists or potential terrorists. I don't want to push this too much though because it could quickly become a derail, and I think we're all basically on the same side here. Thanks again for the info.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:40 PM on October 15, 2016


We're pretty much down to the bare quintessence of Trumpism now: a rich white guy whining that the system is rigged against him.
posted by kyrademon at 3:40 PM on October 15, 2016 [95 favorites]


Maybe it's time we stop treating his style of oratory as something to LOL at, and recognize it for what it is: a frighteningly (if bafflingly) effective form of demagogic manipulation. Now, to a large extent, it works because his audience wants to believe him - but that's the case in any authoritarian uprising.

I was in a work meeting this past week. It's a weekly standing meeting with my two bosses, my two coworkers, and me. Four of the five of us are women. The lone man, one of the two bosses, was out of town this week, so we four women were in the room together, alone, for the first time.

It's interesting enough to me that we had our first political conversation the week he was gone. I don't know if his absence had anything to do with it. Certainly it had been a remarkable week, in that there was much to remark on. I doubt we would have talked about the election had he been there, though. We were able to be more unguarded without him. (And don't get me wrong -- he is a great guy, a great ally, a strong supporter of equity, and I'm sure he's as disgusted by all of this as we are.)

Anyway, one of the women in the room -- the only coworker I consider a friend outside of work, actually -- said that she just found it all funny. She sees her conservative cousins spouting hateful things on Facebook and she just goes * handwave * "oh, whatever." She heard the "grab them by the *****" audio and rolled her eyes.

And that's the first time I ever went off on someone on a political topic. I usually just swallow it, but I didn't this time. I reminded her that she has a 16-year-old daughter. I told her that for the first time since I moved away from Texas, I feel that when I'm out in public, I'm mixing with people who have been stirred up to the point that they would do me violence. Which is terrifying on its own, but it's even more terrifying because you don't, for the most part, know exactly who they are. She didn't have a response, and I think she (and the other two) listened. But knowing that even someone I trust and am friends with can excuse all of this -- it shook me up.

The people supporting Trump, and talking about revolution if we get a Hillary presidency, are certainly dangerous. But to me, second-most dangerous are the people who just see Trump as an attention-seeking bloviator who says crazy things. During that meeting, we all agreed that the Sarah Palin election cycle was amusing. The thought of her getting into office was scary, but for the most part, it was a funny ride, and she was laughable.

There is nothing funny about this one, at least to me. The people who are laughing it off -- I just want to shake them. They're the "first they came for the socialists" people. They are part of the problem, and they're part of my fear.
posted by mudpuppie at 3:43 PM on October 15, 2016 [48 favorites]


What, in particular, is wrong with this bit of reporting? Seems pretty objective to me.

There's never anything wrong with a particular article or bit of reporting. It's just part of a pattern I see, where even when Hillary Clinton is leading strongly, giving great debate performances, deploying extremely strong surrogates for her to campaign, raking in record amounts of fundraising, crushing her opponent in getting out the vote, she is still more likely to be criticized than not. It is never enough, and she is never given the benefit of the doubt.
posted by peacheater at 3:43 PM on October 15, 2016 [12 favorites]


(It's like 200 comments upthread at this point, but I meant to say "the Obama administration". Not "the Obama". I am undoubtedly a brainwashed libtard sheeple, but I stop just short of pledging my soul to Barack Hussein, three-headed and poly-gendered angel of socialist darkness.)
posted by escape from the potato planet at 3:44 PM on October 15, 2016 [16 favorites]


After all this is over and Hillary is elected, I kind of hope she finds some way to get Assange out of hiding and scoops him up. He's too dangerous as Putin's lackey to be left alone, and since he's apparently abandoned everything he ever stood for I'm ok with it now.

This gets way too much into "lock up political enemies" territory for me to be comfortable with. On the other hand, hacking and releasing DNC emails is way too much into Watergate territory and that is an actual crime. I don't know what to do with that, but I don't think Assange can realistically be treated fairly by the US.

I also wish the Swedish judicial process could have decided whether Assange was guilty of rape and/or sexual assault without the baggage of the US government and an international incident hanging around him, because the women who accused him deserve a fair outcome in that case.
posted by zachlipton at 3:44 PM on October 15, 2016 [29 favorites]


Paul Ryan is leading away from Donald Trump but he hasn't rescinded his endorsement, has he?

Dudebro is so spineless he will never do that, and betting on that is some of the easiest money I am going to make on PredictIt.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 3:47 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Assange isn't the criminal (with regard to the leaks), the Russian government is. Like zach says lets leave jailing our political enemies to Trump. The sexual assault charges are another matter. I doubt we'll ever see a resolution on those counts though.
posted by Justinian at 3:48 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


What, in particular, is wrong with this bit of reporting? Seems pretty objective to me.

It seems to neglect the idea that Clinton not saying a thing about the issue is the smartest play regardless of her past. Trump has shown himself more than capable of hanging himself (and indeed, going out and buying the rope as well) and smart politicians often let the surrogates criticize their opponents while taking the high road themselves.

So it's making a story out of nothing while still dredging up the past in a way that is unfavorable to Clinton.
posted by Candleman at 3:50 PM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]


the Trump side is weird, because it's anti-establishment, yet statist.

Their political aspiration is for what Clay Shirky described as "a racist welfare state." In many ways, that's an embrace of retrograde establishment policies -- in some ways, retrofitted New Deal policies -- in ways that refuse to acknowledge their original discriminatory implementation and roll back the civil rights component of the Great Society.
posted by holgate at 3:51 PM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]




But misogyny is a form of xenophobia, and it makes sense that people who are comfortable committing violence en masse and in public are also willing to commit it in their private lives.

Is misogyny a form of xenophobia? Or is it fundamentally a different problem than racism?

(Honest question. I really can't decide what I think about this.)
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:00 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


One problem with the NYT piece is that it makes a few iffy assumptions.
She has played it safe, all but disappearing from the campaign trail until the next debate in Las Vegas on Wednesday.
Open-to-the-press fundraisers and recording Ellen on Thursday and Friday; rallies on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. Debate prep this weekend. All of that has been long-scheduled.

Just because Trump is doing multiple rallies per day doesn't make it a required standard.
posted by holgate at 4:01 PM on October 15, 2016 [17 favorites]


I had to leave a relationship on the sneak. Things were escalating. I was standing up for myself and just no longer emotionally or mentally available. Something random set him off. So we fought. It was over several hours. No matter what happened it was my fault. He puts his hands on me in multiple ways. At one point he looked at me and said that he would kill me. He was so freakin calm too. He'd never said that before and I immediately believed him. We somehow stop fighting. I know that I had to leave but didn't know how. I come up with a plan but will have to wait until the next weekend. That week was one of the most stressful periods of my life. My stomach was in knots. I had to pretend that everything was fine when all I wanted to do was get the fuck out of there. I didn't know if or when he would blow up again.

As someone who has been a part of an abusive relationship this election is pressing all kinds of buttons. This sick feeling in my gut right now is very similar to the way I felt during that week. The ranting and raving, the accusations, the inability to take responsibility for anything is exactly what an argument would feel like. Oh and feeling like everyone is against him. My partner ended up killing himself 10 days after I left. I truly feel like Trump is just going downhill and things will get worse and someone will be hurt. The GOP is watching this breakdown and doesn't seem interested in doing anything about it. He is very dangerous.
posted by puppup at 4:02 PM on October 15, 2016 [127 favorites]


Just because Trump is doing multiple rallies per day doesn't make it a required standard.

Also, when your opponent is busy imploding you just keep yourself off the news as best you can.
posted by Talez at 4:03 PM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]


You know, if Jill Stein's actual goal was to appear to be a pseudo-Trump and peel off some conspiracy minded, internet fueled voters who would otherwise go for Trump but could be convinced to defect (if given ideological cover) since he's a creep and a predator -- in other words to play Egg McMuffin spoiler but from the other side of Trump's base -- it would look a lot like what she is currently doing.

Except it isn't working that way. It has, however, produced some unlikely Facebook fellowships between my Trumpster friends and my #neverHillary lefty friends.

On a serious note, I will *never* forgive Stein beating the anti-Hillary drum and for encouraging her potential voters to believe Trump is less dangerous than Clinton. She's taking that position to make it feel less stupid for voting Green this election, which makes her calculating as f*ck, in my book.

And also, what's up with her weird flirtation with Putin's Russia? I know I haven't lived in the US for a while, but when did we start having these strange Russian fantasies in our national consciousness?
posted by frumiousb at 4:03 PM on October 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


Trump rallys are the tent revivals of the 21st century. And that's all he's got. So.
posted by valkane at 4:05 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think that the fact is that once you start being so anti-establishment and anti-government that you're calling for the government to be torn down, it doesn't matter what your reasons are, you're going to have more in common with other people calling for that same thing than with people who think that mostly the government does alright, with a few flaws that need addressing. The left may point to neoliberal globalization and drones while the right points to immigration and coming for your guns, but ultimately there's a point where none of that matters so much as the anger.

And I understand the allure of the far left. I remember the 90s and anti-globalization and the Battle for Seattle. I was a Rage Against the Machine fan. (In a anecdote that I feel is emblematic of SOMETHING I can say that the Rage Against the Machine concert I went to was the most violent show I've ever attended, and I grew up going to indie punk shows. The floor was filled with angry young white men beating the fucking shit out of people.)

But I'm middle-aged now and I've seen a lot more of life in America now than I had then, and I am fucking terrified of anarchy, thank you very much. I know I wouldn't be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes, but I know who would be and it would be trans people and POC and queers and the poor. Because I watched angry young "leftist" men chase down and beat Latino men at a concert so no, I don't trust them to bring in some kind of New Utopia.
posted by threeturtles at 4:07 PM on October 15, 2016 [42 favorites]


Does The U.S.'s largest Police Union, The Fraternal Order of Police, still support Donald Trump?
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 4:09 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


I mean I personally think misogyny isn't a form of xenophobia, and I worry at the idea of lumping a lot of different kinds of hate into the umbrella term "xenophobia", as it is. Xenophobia means, like, "Those Polish people across the street sure do eat weird food." Which isn't the same as supporting summary execution for Black people, or thinking it's OK to deport people based on their religion, or suggesting that women don't have a place in the public sphere (which is what all the "well if they can't put up with our locker room talk then maybe they should go teach kindergarten" stuff actually means). I think *maybe* some angles of the anti-immigrant stuff would fall into the category of xenophobia, but then I think that most of the Build A Wall sentiment is pure racism, anyway.

I prefer the term "bigotry" as a catch-all for All The Shitty Prejudices.
posted by Sara C. at 4:10 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


when did we start having these strange Russian fantasies in our national consciousness?

prolly around the time when putin started saturating the international media with photos of himself shirtless and wrestling tigers
posted by poffin boffin at 4:10 PM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Is misogyny a form of xenophobia? Or is it fundamentally a different problem than racism?

I'm currently reading A Brief History of Misogyny: The World's Oldest Prejudice by Jack Holland. It's fascinating and depressing. All the warnings, of course.
posted by Lexica at 4:10 PM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a, you know that you don't really need an excuse to vote absentee in Virginia, right?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:12 PM on October 15, 2016


I prefer the term "bigotry" as a catch-all for All The Shitty Prejudices.

Agreed. My rule of thumb is that people react to perceived threats and injuries to their privilege and identity. And this case they react with contempt for the suffering of others.
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:13 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


The Onion: The Donald Trump In These Allegations Is Not The Complete Monster I Married:
I’ve been married to Donald Trump for more than 10 years now, and in all the times I’ve seen him treat other human beings as nothing more than objects for his own gratification, I’ve never seen him do the things he is currently being accused of.

I realize my husband has his faults. He can be impulsive, short-tempered, cruel, arrogant, bigoted, thin-skinned, manipulative, hateful, defensive, intolerant, deluded, vindictive, greedy, perverted, narcissistic, dishonest, threatening, megalomaniacal, and psychopathic. But show me an irredeemably horrible, self-obsessed person who isn’t. What I have never personally seen him do, though, in all the years I’ve listened to him say demeaning and graphically sexual things about women, is touch someone without their consent.

That is simply not the vicious, racist, dangerously unstable sociopath I wake up next to every morning.
posted by palindromic at 4:13 PM on October 15, 2016 [70 favorites]


Is misogyny a form of xenophobia?

I've done a fair amount of diversity work, and at our conferences (for high school students) we taught a model called the Cycle of Oppression. It went fear of difference -> stereotype -> prejudice -> discrimination -> institutionalized oppression -> internalized oppression, and then back around to the start. "Fear of difference" could totally mean "xenophobia" in this context.

That being said, I don't think this particular form of oppression starts with a fear of difference. Another tenet of the cycle was that it could start at any point and progress from there to any other. I think at this point, with so many institutions and systems stacked against women from the start, the cycle has to start with institutionalized oppression.

In the big picture, though, it doesn't matter where it came from, but how we fight it. Hope this clears some stuff up.
posted by scruffy-looking nerfherder at 4:18 PM on October 15, 2016 [11 favorites]


puppup, I am so sorry.
posted by sallybrown at 4:18 PM on October 15, 2016 [20 favorites]


The difference, I think, is that misogyny often also has a strong component of desire tied into it.
posted by gusottertrout at 4:32 PM on October 15, 2016 [12 favorites]


Ah. You're obviously correct. That's very true and very nasty.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:33 PM on October 15, 2016


Does The U.S.'s largest Police Union, The Fraternal Order of Police, still support Donald Trump?

Gosh, that's a great question, Fuzzy Monster. It seems like something journalists would want to look into about now.
posted by MrVisible at 4:40 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Also, when your opponent is busy imploding you just keep yourself off the news as best you can.

That's true, but even that is a bit after-the-fact. There was a west coast swing scheduled for the back half of this week, some of which was catching up on events that were postponed when she was sick. The fundraisers and volunteer events in SF and Seattle were open, so got press coverage. She's doing no more or less rally-based campaigning than was booked in when the EW tape came out and the second debate took place.
posted by holgate at 4:46 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


After all this is over and Hillary is elected, I kind of hope she finds some way to get Assange out of hiding and scoops him up. He's too dangerous as Putin's lackey to be left alone, and since he's apparently abandoned everything he ever stood for I'm ok with it now.

This is the opposite of what I would want, and if Clinton does it, it will be a bad idea. Magnanimity is how you cut the legs out from the opposition, for one thing, and for another, the Obama administration's attacks on whistleblowing have been pretty disgraceful. Wikileaks is a spent force right now, and Assange's "Clinton, history's greatest monster" routine is pretty embarrassing, but the first leaks did reveal real impropriety, and the older big leaks have revealed some pretty disgraceful behavior internationally. There's a big difference between "Clinton is a neoliberal but she does not always beat this drum in public" and the minor but real impropriety over the Sanders campaign, never mind the bigger stuff in all those cables a couple of years ago or the stuff other leakers have brought to light.

In fact, if I were Clinton, I'd pardon (or whatever legal measure were needed) Assange and leave him to deal with the rape charges against him - that would shake quite a lot of stuff out. And I'd pardon Manning, and do whatever legal measure necessary about Snowden. She won't, but it would be a much better thing to do, and it would be an indication that the state was going to try to act with private propriety.

To me, the problem with Assange isn't that he's bursting in on the sacred privacy of the state, the problem is that he's doing everything he can to get Trump elected out of some kind of misguided belief that Trump will be better for the world on foreign policy instead of a puppet of the far right. (As I've said elsewhere here, I don't think he's any kind of tool of Putin; I bet that at worst he thinks he's playing any Russians he's working with. His politics are pretty ordinary anti-state politics, and those people tend both to be sincere and anti-all-states. The trouble is that you can quite literally end up serving the interests of one state or another if you act like a big baby.)

Honestly, while I think it's pretty stupid to have constant gotchas about random email (since anyone who, like, uses email for work knows what a misleading record it is unless it's designed to be an official statement of policy), I think that people who leak genuine proof of impropriety are doing us a service as a country. We beat the drum in this country about how we're moral and so we're entitled to meddle, city on a hill, etc - well then, our actions have to stand up to that claim.
posted by Frowner at 4:48 PM on October 15, 2016 [32 favorites]


Police group’s endorsement of Trump stirs debate among ranks
“At a time when we’re all trying to unite and bring the world to a calm, the last person we need is a Donald Trump,” said David Fisher, president of the greater Philadelphia chapter of the National Black Police Association. “And the last thing the police need is to hitch its wagon to a Donald Trump.”

The FOP and Trump were to have appeared at a rally last Monday in Philadelphia, weeks after the endorsement was made. But the event was abruptly canceled after the release of a video from 2005 in which Trump can be heard making a series of vulgar and sexually aggressive remarks about women.

posted by zakur at 4:49 PM on October 15, 2016 [12 favorites]




Pandering so effectively, as usual: "Trump: "I am a big fan of Hindu and I am a big fan of Indian." --@SopanDeb
posted by zachlipton at 4:56 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Mod note: Deleted derail on semantics.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 4:57 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Imagine being so shitty that shitty ass police unions think twice about endorsing you.
posted by Artw at 4:58 PM on October 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


@JeffreyGoldberg
"The Republican nominee for President is allied with Infowars, Wikileaks, and the Kremlin. This is unusual."

Not to mention white supremacists. Though I guess that's not so unusual for Republicans.
posted by chris24 at 5:04 PM on October 15, 2016 [12 favorites]


My Googling skills have failed me for now (I'll keep looking), but I recall hearing the Cleveland FOP president Steve Loomis introducing Rudy Giuliani on the radio. He actually said something to the effect of "this endorsement doesn't mean that we're racist. We're not racist." The odd thing was that he said that during the public announcement of the endorsement, so he wasn't responding to any reactions to the endorsement. It was a proactive defense before the fact. Dude, if you have to preface your remarks with a defense against charges of racism before those charges even materialize, maybe the problem is you?
posted by Surely This at 5:05 PM on October 15, 2016 [12 favorites]


Yeah, there's a lot of terrible shit going on and to come, but I also have to take a moment to pause and be grateful for the unexpected good things. I mean, within the last few days:

--Bob Dylan won the Nobel Prize
--The Prairie Home Companion was hosted by someone who can actually, you know, sing
--Egg has non-zero polling numbers
--Donald Trump's name has been mentioned more often in conjunction with Bill Cosby than his running mate

Surely flying cars and jetpacks will arrive any minute now.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:07 PM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]


I recommend Peggy Reeves Sanday's Female Power and Male Dominance as a primer on how some societies are (at least relatively) gender-egalitarian, and others are extremely patriarchal. It doesn't really have to do with any primordial back-to-the-apes essentialism - it's more a reflection on violence in general. It's rare to find a society where men are nice as pie to each other and oppressive to women - generally when there is gender oppression there is a whole lot of other violence and hierarchy (abuse of children and of men who are deemed "other" and lots of quarreling and fighting).

There is also the theory of ambivalent sexism as originated by Peter Glick and Susan Fiske - men are bad but bold, whereas women are wonderful but weak - and it is this ambivalent sexism that I see coming to the fore in this election. Sure, Donald Trump is bad, but to his supporters he is also bold - a real man, tough and willing to take charge! Women, meanwhile, need to know their place, and since Hillary Clinton is undeniably not "weak" she therefore can't be "wonderful."
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 5:09 PM on October 15, 2016 [26 favorites]


Does The U.S.'s largest Police Union, The Fraternal Order of Police, still support Donald Trump?

Seeking to answer this question, I went to the National Fraternal Order of Police's Twitter account, and found that while they had tweeted out their endorsement on September 16th then followed it up the next day with a statement about how great it was that the endorsement was voted on by the rank-and-file and not just decided by the leadership, almost all updates since then have focused on police who were shot and/or killed in the line of duty. Occasionally, they would retweet compliments.

The unwavering focus on heroic police being shot/injured/killed in the line of duty suggests to me that they are sticking with their endorsement. Were there no picnics or charitable events or 'police do something fun/silly for the community' vids over the past month, or was it just heroes being killed by cowards?

By contrast, my union's Twitter account is mostly about events, talks, and so on - only occasionally grievance-related - but our state government is actively looking to shut us down, so maybe it's different when you're exempted from right-to-work laws.
posted by palindromic at 5:11 PM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


And I'd pardon Manning, and do whatever legal measure necessary about Snowden

Can she to pardon Manning without losing vast swathes of institutional support among the military, intelligence, and diplomatic services?
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:12 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a, you know that you don't really need an excuse to vote absentee in Virginia, right?

I sent 92225etcetc a memail about this, but you do need a reason, but really any excuse will do. When applying for an absentee ballot in person or by mail you have to give a reason to do so, here's the list of choices. If you work in a different jurisdiction than you home like many people in NoVa, use 1C. If Metro SafeTrack impacts your commute, use 1E. If you want to drink beer at a friend's house in another county after work, choose 1D. You have to provide a reason for requesting an absentee ballot, but the bar is not set very high.

Also, Monday, Oct 17 is the last day to register to vote in Va. You can register in person at your local elections office until 5pm or online until midnight. If you are already registered, you can check your registration here.
posted by peeedro at 5:12 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Not sure if this has been mentioned (it hasn't in this post): Trump's not the only one facing charges after the election: Arpaio's criminal contempt trial is set for early December.
Largely because of Arpaio’s age — he is 84 — Bolton ruled that a sentencing cap of six months is appropriate on the contempt charge.

A tentative trial date was set for Dec. 6. Arpaio’s attorney asked for a jury trial.

The six-month cap suggests the case will be tried as a misdemeanor, although it was not explicitly stated in court.

Only a felony conviction can force an elected official out of office in Arizona, according to state statute.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:12 PM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]




One of the volunteer reports above commented that "I know I'm not changing the world or anything here", but you actually are. Elections are won by little actions like calling a few people. If we believe elections have consequences and change who would be in power and thus how power is used, then yes you are changing the world. It seems small but ... I just spent 3 hours scheduling volunteers from very messy canvass sign up sheets. So obviously I believe I'm changing the world because that is a very silly thing to spend a Saturday afternoon doing otherwise.
posted by R343L at 5:13 PM on October 15, 2016 [32 favorites]


Given Trump's apparent criminal activities spanning fraud, sexual assault, corruption and tax evasion I would hope that police unions would strongly reconsider their endorsement.
posted by humanfont at 5:14 PM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


They've got the civil asset forfeiture - game recognizes game.
posted by palindromic at 5:15 PM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]


922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a, you know that you don't really need an excuse to vote absentee in Virginia, right?

I was unsure on how strict they were. I think I'll do the in person voting on the 29th. SafeTrack isn't specifically affecting me at that time, but after last week's Metro meltdown I don't count on them to get me anywhere on time.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 5:17 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Is misogyny a form of xenophobia?

No. Misogyny is about ownership and control, at its core; xenophobia is fear. I think they can both include elements of each other, but the wellsprings are different.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:17 PM on October 15, 2016 [11 favorites]


BuzzFeed has a new article on Fancy Bear, the Russian hacking group.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:18 PM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Making Arpaio's trial a misdemeanor case, and setting the sentencing cap at six months, is practically a crime in itself. Metafilter's community guidelines will not permit me to express the full extent of my dislike for that man, nor to say what fate I think he truly deserves.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:19 PM on October 15, 2016 [20 favorites]


So funny story. I was at the credit union today to get quarters and the security guard was on the phone. After he was done he told the lady in front of me that the place was open until 5 today and 5 on Monday. He gave her the address. Didn't think anything of it until I go to find where I can vote early, and it's the exact address, so she must have been looking for where she needed to go to get registered.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 5:20 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Yeah, Pence's 'I'm a Christian, a conservative, and a Republican, in that order' is looking pretty damn prophetic right now.

Imaging the shitshow if a Democratic candidate said, "I'm a Muslim, a liberal, and a Democrat, in that order."
posted by kirkaracha at 5:22 PM on October 15, 2016 [53 favorites]


Considering that there was once a time when you never encountered anyone outside your own tribe,anyone who didn't look a lot like yourself

I think what we're learning from this election – or at least having thrown into stark relief – is that millions of Americans still live in such places. I thought that this Gallup poll was particularly illuminating:
Among those who are similar in terms of income, education and other factors, those who view Trump favorably are more likely to be found in white enclaves — racially isolated Zip codes where the amount of diversity is lower than in surrounding areas.
This doesn't surprise me in the least. My gut sense is that most Trump supporters learned everything they know about Muslims from Homeland, their understanding of Latino culture begins and ends with tacos (the crunchy Americanized strip-mall kind), and few of them know out-of-the-closet LGBT folks. They live in the middle of a vast sea of whiteness and straightness, leaving them with few counter-examples to the portrayals of POC and gay folks they get from Fox News and other conservative mass media.

I see folks in these threads exclaiming things like "I mean, for fuck's sake – have these people actually ever met a [insert identity group here]?". And, well, no – a shockingly large number of them haven't. A lot of them have little direct experience of African-Americans – to their understanding, black folks live in "the inner cities" and are basically a bunch of gangster-rap stereotypes. Because their only exposure to black people is through their TV, and that's what their TV shows them.

This is one less-acknowledged reason that media representation matters. Representation isn't just about making it possible for people to see themselves and their concerns in stories (although that's important): it's also about normalizing different groups and cultures to white America, so that it's harder for them to see those groups as Other.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:24 PM on October 15, 2016 [53 favorites]


Imaging the shitshow if a Democratic candidate said, "I'm a Muslim, a liberal, and a Democrat, in that order."

Ted Cruz said "'I'm a Christian first, American second." IOKIYAR.

Imagine if Keith Ellison said "I'm a Muslim first, American second."

There wouldn't be a public outcry. He would literally be fighting off assassination attempts by lone wolves.
posted by Talez at 5:26 PM on October 15, 2016 [19 favorites]


On a related note... I finally figured out what might be the real theme for this election.

While driving today, I pondered the handful of What Do Trump Voters Want articles I'd read lately, and I was ruminating over that horrible Limbaugh quote on consent from earlier, particularly how while Limbaugh certainly knows how to manipulate Jesus freaks he's really not one at heart so it doesn't fully explain anger over unauthorized orgasms. It went deeper than that. Then I thought of notable by-product Rick Santorum, another person deeply concerned about unauthorized genital activity, and one of his prize-winning quotes:

In a Tuesday appearance on Mickelson in the Morning, a popular Iowa radio show among conservatives, the former Pennsylvania senator recounted a debate he had had with former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean (D). “We were asked a question by a student, what’s the greatest virtue of the United States of America? You know what Howard Dean said? Diversity.” Santorum incredulously noted as the host laughed. “But that’s what they believe!” Santorum continued.

And there it is. Rich vs. poor, black vs. white, rural vs. urban, religious vs. secular, mainstream media vs. Mirror Universe Media, all of these are part of the puzzle but not all of it. But this election for me, and recent years' left-rightism in general, comes down to inclusion versus exclusion.

What does a progressive want? Inclusion. Enabling diversity. Not limiting choices but increasing them. Increasing access to a survivable baseline income, affordable healthcare, a decent education, higher education, clean water, decent jobs. Including everyone, regardless of sexual identity or orientation, in marriage rights and equal treatment. Whole communities all paying their fair share in taxes to keep roads repaired, bridges up, society running, children learning, the hungry fed, the homeless sheltered, the needy helped. Including everyone in fair treatment in the public square and by police, regardless of race, religion or lack of religion. Taking that bit about "all men are created equal" seriously and adding "and women, no exceptions" in indelible ink.

What does a Trumpist want? Exclusion. Muslims? Keep 'em out. Immigrants in general? Keep 'em out, they're stealing MY MONEY and MY JOB, build the wall. Regulations? Don't apply to my company. Taxes? Slash 'em to nothing, they're stealing MY MONEY. Foreign countries? Fuck 'em, America First, bomb 'em and take their oil. Women, minorities, non-whites, anyone who isn't part of the White Christian Men Run Everything Tribe? Keep 'em out, and in their place -- which is out of the boardroom, out of the pulpit, out of political office, out of anywhere they might have power or influence or money because to them, those are strictly zero-sum affairs and sharing ANYTHING diminishes MINE MINE MINE to which they feel fully entitled. Treat 'em as inferiors because if you don't think like us, you don't matter. Media coverage says we're wrong? Lock 'em up. And protestors at my rallies? Get 'em out, get 'em out, and crack 'em one in the head on the way out. Exclude everything and everyone outside of our tribe because we're the only REAL AMERICANS and thus the only ones that count.

tl;dr I overthink things sometimes.
posted by delfin at 5:27 PM on October 15, 2016 [129 favorites]


They've got the civil asset forfeiture - game recognizes game.

Go drug war! The NYTimes has a summary of a report issued by Human Rights Watch and the ACLU showing that nationwide arrests for possessing small amounts of marijuana exceeded those for all violent crimes last year, and a disproportionate number of those arrested are African-Americans. So if you think policing means hassling minorities then Trump's your guy.
posted by peeedro at 5:27 PM on October 15, 2016 [17 favorites]


MetaFilter: It's really easy and you don't have to wear pants.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:32 PM on October 15, 2016 [46 favorites]


We've discussed the phenomenon here before, but I'd be really interested (and probably depressed) to see Trump support mapped on to major media markets. Because just anecdotally the most fucked up conceptions about what cities are like and what minorities who tend to live in cities are like that I've encountered have come from exurban and rural areas that are close enough to a largish city that that's where the "local" tv channels come from. And local tv means local news and local news means fear-palooza. The outcome is a bunch of people living in all-white areas whose only experience with nonfictional black people is gang violence and the problems associated with urban poverty.

The highschool kids I taught in rural Maryland used to ask me if I wasn't afraid I was going to get shot every time I'd mention that husband and I were going to DC for the weekend. As far as they knew, that's all that happened there.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:34 PM on October 15, 2016 [17 favorites]


GOP Mailer: We’ll Tell Your Neighbors If You Vote Democratic

MSNBC just picked this one up. Could gain some traction.
In 2014, I got a targeted Facebook ad from the Republicans with exactly the same message. I think it was the same image, too. If not, it was something really similar. It didn't quite say that they'd tell your neighbors if you voted Democrat, but it strongly implied it. I thought it was kind of hilarious, because I'd already voted, and it's not a big secret that I vote for Democrats.

Anyway, I spent all day helping to run a canvass staging location. It was a clusterfuck, which is to be expected for our first GOTV dry run, but I think things will run more smoothly tomorrow. The one bad thing is that one of the other volunteers said that last night, someone taped white supremacist literature to her Clinton yard sign. She seemed pretty rattled. I don't think anyone was expecting that.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:39 PM on October 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


Longtime Virginia resident here and I can't recommend voting absentee in person enough. You get to put your paper ballot through the machine just like Election Day. If you pick a random afternoon it takes about 5-10 minutes vs the long waits on Election Day. I voted last week.
posted by humanfont at 5:43 PM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


GOP Mailer: We’ll Tell Your Neighbors If You Vote Democratic

MSNBC just picked this one up. Could gain some traction.
Yeah that has been a staple for the past several elections. For the last two, I've gotten ones from some innocuously-named firm that I got a distinct Republican feeling from, including some personal information like whether I'd voted in the past few elections, then saying, "We'll tell your neighbors whether you voted or not!". They can probably infer my party affiliation now, given that I finally voted in a primary this year and pulled a Democratic ballot.
posted by indubitable at 5:43 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think the tricky bit about the Russian hacks is that there's so many different implications:

1. Russia and the US are both big, imperialist states who want to have as much global power as possible and who are willing to do pretty dodgy stuff to get it.

2. Russia and the United States will do each other down if the opportunity arises, just for geopolitics reasons. Russia has legitimate reasons to worry about American regional actions.

3. Russia is ruled by a strongman who is like Trump if Trump were competent. Putin is worse than the common run of US or Russian leaders. So in this sense, right now, Russia really is " bad guys".

4. But the bad blood between the USSR/Russia and the US means that Americans tend to think of Russia as "the bad guys" just as a default, no matter who is in power or what the US has done to contribute to the situation. We do not think "hm, some of our activities in the Americas are less violent but just as disgraceful as Russian involvement in Ukraine" for example.

5. Electing Trump would be a disaster for the US, but probably good for Russia.

6. So when Americans correctly blame Russians for involvement in the election and hacks and so on, we are right to worry about Russian intent, but we also readily get pulled into anti-Russian pro-US nationalist sentiment that reflects standard US drum-beating about Russia instead of a realistic assessment.

I think this is extra-tricky compared to the Cold War, because during the Cold War, as bad as the USSR was, there was still something more than violent nationalism in play - you really did get a good education, access to medical care and housing for free and women really did play a much more equal role in national life. And American rhetoric was much more transparently self-interested lies - you have only to look at Reagan-era posturing. It was much easier, intellectually, to imagine that ordinary people in the USSR and the US had a lot in common and could get together if only our leaders weren't so shitty. We thought that the problem was ideology when it was really power, in short, and now the ideology is gone but the power is still there, and we can't get back to our old understanding.
posted by Frowner at 5:44 PM on October 15, 2016 [16 favorites]


The highschool kids I taught in rural Maryland used to ask me if I wasn't afraid I was going to get shot every time I'd mention that husband and I were going to DC for the weekend. As far as they knew, that's all that happened there.

Heh. I love telling the story of Halloween 1998 when I was working in the backwoods of England. I saw some ~14yo kids skateboarding near the town pub I was steeling my nerves to visit solo. Smoking a cigarette on a park bench in a little park next to the Severn River and having a lot of skateboarding under my belt, I said something like "woah!" or "that curb looks rough" when one of them missed a trick. They heard my accent and were very curious, one of them asking whether everybody had guns in the US and if I was afraid of that. It was like the first thing they wanted to know! The conversation continued, describing how it's really only a subset of Americans who had lots of guns, with some overlap with gun possessors who shoot people. It's not a jungle, I explained. Then they told me that Halloween is not at all a thing there, though some people try to make it one.
posted by rhizome at 5:45 PM on October 15, 2016 [16 favorites]




The highschool kids I taught in rural Maryland used to ask me if I wasn't afraid I was going to get shot every time I'd mention that husband and I were going to DC for the weekend.

I get this kind of thing all the time in Maryland. My own mother is terrified of going to Baltimore or DC – and although she's never been willing to explain why, I have my suspicions. (She is by no means an overt racist, and hates Trump, but we recently had a falling-out over some not-exactly-enlightened remarks she made about a recent police-brutality incident. We patched things up – but the conversation revealed to me just how much she doesn't get it. Even as she tearfully agreed that "they" have been "horribly mistreated" over the years, she consistently framed black folks as them – some other group, essentially separate from her own. It was frustrating and disappointing. So, thanks, 2016: you made me have to explain to my mother why the shit she said sounded racist.)

Many older white folks – and, heck, many white folks in general – recognize and rightly condemn explicit racism of the slurs-and-white-hoods variety, but are completely unable to comprehend institutional racism. It's just not part of the racial narrative that they learned in school, and which for decades has been the standard lens through which America views race.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:54 PM on October 15, 2016 [21 favorites]


What good does that do if a toddler could break your window with a pebble?

Glass breaking is loud and distinctive. If things are so bad that mobs or whatever are willing to break your windows, you're probably screwed.

Being armed is really only going to help you in the narrow circumstance where small groups are stealthily causing some kind of trouble and targeting known liberals, criminals, taking advantage of nearby chaos, or something. If the national guard is mobilizing and you just need to make it through the night, maybe two. In that case, being armed might be enough to convince rioters, even armed rioters, to pick on someone else until order can be restored.

More than likely it's just wishful thinking or will be totally unnecessary.
posted by VTX at 5:55 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Google success: I found the remarks by Cleveland FOP head Steve Loomis defending his organization against charges of racism. He made the remarks a couple of hours after the endorsement was announced, so maybe they had already seen some charges made. This is the report I heard on the radio.
But union president Steve Loomis defended the endorsement while introducing Giuliani.

“That doesn’t make us bigots, that doesn’t make us racists, that doesn’t make us sexists, that makes us Americans,” Loomis said.
posted by Surely This at 6:00 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


"...but I repeat myself."
posted by rhizome at 6:02 PM on October 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


Making Arpaio's trial a misdemeanor case, and setting the sentencing cap at six months, is practically a crime in itself. Metafilter's community guidelines will not permit me to express the full extent of my dislike for that man, nor to say what fate I think he truly deserves.

Allegedly that decision was a bit of strategery. Putting the sentencing cap at six months allows the prosecution to request a bench trial which would only be heard by a judge. They'd have a much harder time getting a conviction with a jury trial, which would be required if they were seeking a longer sentence. (IANAL; heard this explanation on a right-wing talk radio station that seems to be largely over Arpaio.)
posted by fuse theorem at 6:02 PM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


@ch000ch
TRUMP: i grab women by the pussy
A DOZEN WOMEN: yeah that's true he did it to me
TRUMP: this is a global conspiracy
posted by rhizome at 6:03 PM on October 15, 2016 [127 favorites]


Trump's new thing today is how much he loves Hindus and India, and someone must've told him who Modi was, because he's citing Modi's purge of "bureaucrats" as a model now. I don't know he merits of whether Indian government is really as corrupt and inefficient as its reputation, but the comparison to the US seems entirely inappropriate.

Much of the US government's ineffectiveness is directly caused by Republican sabotage on both regulatory and budgetary fronts, it's not a third world operation operating on he spoils system. But Trump is making it clear that's what he'd return it to
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:04 PM on October 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


So I just got home from a party at which the current unpleasantness came up. The guy I was talking to, a smart and kind and thoroughly pro-HRC fellow, was agreeing with me about how scary the post-election period is shaping up to be, but then he said, "at least some of the Republicans are denouncing Trump, like Paul Ryan."

Dude had somehow gotten the idea that Ryan was not at all supporting Trump anymore. Boy, I wonder where he could have gotten that idea. Almost as if the media are letting him get through this election without getting his Reasonable Principled Conservative suit dirty.

Anyway now I'm sad. I knew Ryan was a weasel, but I hadn't processed how effective his weaselry has been.
posted by saturday_morning at 6:05 PM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


Let me take this opportunity to say how much I love script-fragment Twitter.
posted by rhizome at 6:07 PM on October 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


TRUMP: i grab women by the pussy
A DOZEN WOMEN: yeah that's true he did it to me
TRUMP: this is a global conspiracy


TRUMP: and what about Crooked Hillary
EVERYONE:
TRUMP: She and her people are plotting ways to deny me an electoral victory
EVERYONE: yes this is how elections work?
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:12 PM on October 15, 2016 [52 favorites]


Trump's new thing today is how much he loves Hindus and India, and someone must've told him who Modi was, because he's citing Modi's purge of "bureaucrats" as a model now.

Wow, I bet he loves Erdogan, then.
posted by indubitable at 6:13 PM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


I think that the fact is that once you start being so anti-establishment and anti-government that you're calling for the government to be torn down, it doesn't matter what your reasons are, you're going to have more in common with other people calling for that same thing than with people who think that mostly the government does alright, with a few flaws that need addressing. The left may point to neoliberal globalization and drones while the right points to immigration and coming for your guns, but ultimately there's a point where none of that matters so much as the anger.

I really don't find this to be true. I think that what happens is that the noisiest people on the radical left tend to be - Dunning Krugerishly - the people who don't really have the knowledge, deductive powers and/or life experience to talk about radical social change in an intelligent way. When I was around Occupy, for instance, the noisiest people were the people with all the uncontrolled anger and/or the people who were not ready for self-reflection, but those were very far from the only people. And it's not as though the media has any incentive, politically or from an exciting-news angle, to talk to people who aren't fulminating about things.

As an anarchist I think their understanding of the world is unsustainable, but around here there's a lot of quite reliable strongly ideologized marxists working on the campaign for $15. These are people who are not Hillary fans and certainly would support revolutionary social change if it happened to come down the pike, but they're not fools.

Honestly, I think that we're still living in the shadow of MCarthy in this country - there's very little natural social connection between the far left and the merely left-of-center. Sometimes I will think to myself "this person who self-describes as a liberal has many ideas that put them very close to being a socialist", but of course that person doesn't know any socialists. It's not that if liberals knew socialists socially, if you will, they would all stop being liberals - it's just that there ought to be natural intellectual ebb and flow amongst these groups, and there isn't, so there's a great deal of misinformation about what people actually believe and do, and we tend to see the worst of each other.

To me, this is one of the many social connections broken by anti-communism and particularly by McCarthy - we have few connections between generations of leftists, too, so the traditional dynamic of "youthful radical enthusiasm energizes older people who are worn out by defeat, while the practical experience of older people helps steer us away from 'if the government collapsed it would be awesome'" thinking" is broken. Cross-political and cross-generational projects are important on the left, but we rarely get them.
posted by Frowner at 6:15 PM on October 15, 2016 [37 favorites]


Wow, I bet he loves Erdogan, then.

He will once someone tells him who that is.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:16 PM on October 15, 2016 [32 favorites]


HuffPo: How #TrumpDrSeuss Hilariously Stole Twitter: “I am the Deplorax. I speak for the sleaze.”

Grab a woman on a train
Grab a woman on a plane
Just barge on in, no need to knock!
It’s not assault, just locker room talk! #TrumpDrSeuss

The Notorious L-I-Z (@LizzyRichards24)
posted by chris24 at 6:17 PM on October 15, 2016 [22 favorites]


Just noticed (there's a bit of lag for stats) that your calls made before you join a team don't count, so join Mefites United now. Even if you're still working up the nerve (I found the process therapeutic myself.)

#NextPost
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:20 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]



On a serious note, I will *never* forgive Stein beating the anti-Hillary drum and for encouraging her potential voters to believe Trump is less dangerous than Clinton. She's taking that position to make it feel less stupid for voting Green this election, which makes her calculating as f*ck, in my book.


Here's a criterion that has made it very, very easy for me to vote for Hillary: the antivax issue. I don't have the links at the moment, but it's all public record. Not only is Hillary very clearly pro-vac, but the timing of her statements on the issue make it pretty impossible for her to have made the decision on the basis of polling and demographics. She chose her stance on the merits, Trump is antivax because he is crazier than most antivaxxers. Stein and Johnson have both engaged in cynical pandering on the issue, and both of them are smart enough to know better.

That is reason enough to vote for her without holding my nose.
posted by ocschwar at 6:22 PM on October 15, 2016 [41 favorites]


I wonder how honest the Clinton emails are. No, not those emails, but rather the daily flood of campaign emails I (and probably most of us) get. Because I just got one which startled me. "15 people in your town have already stepped up!"

My town is around 700 people, in the wastelands of Kansas. The last two presidential elections here went 75-25 for the R's. I've looked at donor records for this town and found 1 person who donated the max for Obama and a handful for Romney and Trump. There weren't very many donations in total. I know the records usually only show the $100 (or is it $200?) plus donors, though this list did include a truck driver who sent Ben Carson $30. But thought it would still offer some clue as to the possibility the email was true.

Because if it is true, that's a huge surprise. People here aren't angry about the election (as far as I can tell), there are still no Trump signs, but this is overall not a town normally friendly to Democrats.

Speaking of signs, I've had to do a lot of driving in this region lately. Up to Topeka and Kansas City. I've seen a handful of Clinton signs in the cities, a couple of Johnson signs, tons of signs for our idiot senator and representative (Moran & Lynn Jenkins), and absolutely zero Trump signs. I'm sure there's some around here somewhere but it's been nice to not see any.
posted by honestcoyote at 6:22 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]




The emails aren't very truthful at all. If they are, then the campaign is in rough shape because they consider me one of their most committed supporters at $10/week.
posted by ian1977 at 6:30 PM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


I live in a largish southern college town where the cute downtown has been really affected by white flight out to the far-flung, ugly suburbs. I live very close to downtown and have walked to and from music venues there at all times of the day or night alone and I have never felt fearful. The folks just two miles away are simply aghast at my "daring." Yes, I am a white woman who walks alone into the hellscape of downtown Hattiesburg, Mississippi. My only real concern is that I'll blind myself rolling my eyes so hard at the ignorance and fear.
posted by thebrokedown at 6:33 PM on October 15, 2016 [26 favorites]


As an infectious disease epidemiologist, I appreciate your single-issue vote, oschwar!
posted by palindromic at 6:33 PM on October 15, 2016 [35 favorites]


Re: signs. I think we may be getting to the point where strategists (see, for example, Republican Mike Murphy) have finally convinced the candidates that lawn signs are not effective. My HQ only doles out signs and stickers to repeat volunteers. (And bumper stickers only to people willing to commit to putting them on the actual bumper, and not scotch tape them to a window.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:37 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I wonder how honest the Clinton emails are.

lol they are complete horse-shit. I get like 5 of them a day and they're fairly hilarious with the OMGGGG THE SKY IS FALLING WE DESPERATELY NEED YOUR $50 THIS VERY INSTANT BECAUSE WITHOUT THAT WE'D GO BANKRUPT TOMORROW!!!
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:38 PM on October 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


Donald Trump needs to be asked about rebooting his birther campaign. Those air quotes beg explanation. Big time.
posted by clever sheep at 6:40 PM on October 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


I foolishly gave money to the DCCC at the beginning of the week and now I'm getting appeals from pretty much every remotely competitive race. The Clinton campaign emails are incredibly much less "sky is falling" than those. Also the Clinton campaign ones are well formatted.
posted by R343L at 6:41 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]




Big time.

Don't you mean bigly?
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:43 PM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]




The emails aren't very truthful at all. If they are, then the campaign is in rough shape because they consider me one of their most committed supporters at $10/week.

They sent me a message that I had donated enough to be a 'Campaign Builder.' I requested inauguration tickets from one of my senators recently, and in the comment box on the request page I wrote that Hillary had personally emailed me about how I built the campaign, and she would be just devastated if I wasn't there in January.

i also noted that i have a young daughter and i would be forever grateful if she could be there to see first woman president make it official
posted by palindromic at 6:46 PM on October 15, 2016 [31 favorites]


I was just wondering because this was the first time the email was specific. Previously, it was always "we need 12 more people from <your tiny town that we probably couldn't find on a map> to step up and save us from imminent doom." Obviously the rest of the copy is the usual crap, but they'd never before claimed X number of people already donated.
posted by honestcoyote at 6:49 PM on October 15, 2016


I just got this email from Patrick Murphy:

... And we’re still $7,102 away from our $100,000 Mid Month goal with only 5 hours to go.

...Mid month goal? go the fuck away, I donated money literally yesterday. I guess this must be effective because I get these types of emails from Clinton, too, but it doesn't inspire me to donate, I just find it irritating. Especially the "We need 8 more people from [your town] to donate by the end of today to reach our [bullshit] goal!" Please.
posted by gatorae at 6:50 PM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


I have donated several times but never from an email. I tend to donate when my JCPL gets above a certain point and I'm feeling powerless and angry.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:54 PM on October 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


I'm a little bit jealous of people who get to vote early, because you've finished the most essential part of this election already. I don't fall into one of New York's restrictive categories for absentee voting--in fact, I have some pretty obvious commitments that keep me running around the city all day during Election Day--so I'll be getting up at 5:30 and heading to the polls right when they open. (Ugh. Why bother sleeping?)

I looked through the sample ballot today and will almost certainly be voting straight (D). Chuck Schumer is historically cozy with big banks, but his opponent Wendy Long is a Trumpist Republican who deserves to be repudiated by a wide margin and the Green candidate (the alternative I'd consider) hasn't made a case for herself.

The state Senate race is a bit of a tougher question because there's a credible independent challenger and no Republican on the ballot. Both candidates have similar and agreeable-to-me stances on LGBT issues, affordable housing, and the environment; the challenger distinguishes himself primarily by running on an anticorruption platform. I'm wary of simplistic "kick the corrupt bastards out" arguments, but Albany has legitimate issues with corruption and one-party entrenchment.

[I hope state/local discussion is OK. If it's a derail, please feel free to delete.]
posted by Leslie Knope at 6:54 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I was just wondering because this was the first time the email was specific.

If you're really curious the FEC has individual donation data up through 8/31, which is obviously less help than usual since it won't cover after the grabbing revelation.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:57 PM on October 15, 2016


A Trump supporter with possibly the worst vehicle sticker of all time?

and I say this as a person who saw one yesterday that said 'my truck was made with wrenches not chopsticks.' Just another horrible example of metro Detroit auto worker racism, the stuff that killed Vincent Chin.
posted by palindromic at 7:00 PM on October 15, 2016 [22 favorites]


I have donated several times but never from an email. I tend to donate when my JCPL gets above a certain point and I'm feeling powerless and angry.

I doubt you're alone in that. Sounds like a great incentive to keep people terrified all the time.
posted by indubitable at 7:00 PM on October 15, 2016


Re: signs. I think we may be getting to the point where strategists (see, for example, Republican Mike Murphy) have finally convinced the candidates that lawn signs are not effective.

Yard signs are good to address name recognition problems. Trump and Clinton don't have a name recognition problem, so signs are just a way to milk donors into paying to show their support.

But I've been volunteering for a congressional race in Va and yard signs are still a big deal, because name recognition is still a challenge for down ballot races. We're distributing yard signs to anyone who requests one, it's a pretty high value voter contact for local races.
posted by peeedro at 7:05 PM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


[I hope state/local discussion is OK. If it's a derail, please feel free to delete.]

I think state/local discussion would be great - especially considering how atypical the impact on state/local Republicans of Trump could be, and how significant any negative coattail effect is.
posted by sallybrown at 7:14 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


the challenger distinguishes himself primarily by running on an anticorruption platform
Just a random thought--it is normal for people new to politics to run on anti-corruption and ethics platforms. That's how Obama got started and that's Kander's platform out west.
posted by xyzzy at 7:15 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


If you're really curious the FEC has individual donation data

I've already looked at the FEC data, as I mentioned above. Campaigns aren't required to list donations below a certain amount, so the info wasn't much help. None of my pre 8/31 donations show up and they were all individually under 100. Guess I'll never know if the email's number was remotely honest or just RNG.
posted by honestcoyote at 7:16 PM on October 15, 2016


Long-time reader, first comment just to add:

Fuck Peter Thiel.

(hello!)
posted by carsondial at 7:17 PM on October 15, 2016 [102 favorites]


The state Senate race is a bit of a tougher question because there's a credible independent challenger and no Republican on the ballot

I had a longer thing and deleted it but:

What district are you in? Because just looking at the races I can't see any with no Republican and a credible independent a Democrat-ish person might like. Some with Conservative candidates, but those are just Republicans-but-worse.

Anyway, who specifically represents your district isn't important, within wide boundaries. One the one hand you have a frankenbeast of Cuomo and Heastie and Stewart-Cousins to vote for, and on the other hand a frankenstein of basically Carl Paladino and more Carl Paladino and distilled essence of Carl Paladino smeared trumpily all of over it and wearing Trump's actual hairpiece.

Unless your district has one of the doofuses pulling that Independent Democrat bullshit, just vote for the Democrat.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:18 PM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


I've already looked at the FEC data, as I mentioned above.

Sorry, I thought you meant you'd pulled it for 2012.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:20 PM on October 15, 2016


Just a random thought--it is normal for people new to politics to run on anti-corruption and ethics platforms.

It's a perennially popular message that doesn't take a ton of policy chops to articulate. "Those guys are dishonest but I will be honest" is not the worst pitch you can make for yourself if you don't have a political resume to point to.
posted by EarBucket at 7:20 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


We're distributing yard signs to anyone who requests one, it's a pretty high value voter contact for local races.

That makes sense, but I'm not seeing even those signs. Granted, we're pretty blue, but this is a relatively contested year, locally.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:22 PM on October 15, 2016


A Trump supporter with possibly the worst vehicle sticker of all time?

That makes me feel new levels of terrified sad.
posted by Annika Cicada at 7:24 PM on October 15, 2016 [23 favorites]


Sorry, I thought you meant you'd pulled it for 2012.

I pulled it for both this year and 2012 to get an idea of how much & often people in this town donated. Was interesting but sparse. Other than the truck driver's small donation to Carson, everything else listed was $500+. Have no idea why Carson's staff reported the $30 but, knowing Carson, there's probably a very silly reason why.
posted by honestcoyote at 7:27 PM on October 15, 2016


Conor Friedersdorf: Utah may come out of 2016 able to tell the GOP, pick a candidate acceptable to us or lose. That is a lot of leverage.
posted by Existential Dread at 7:28 PM on October 15, 2016 [16 favorites]


We're distributing yard signs to anyone who requests one, it's a pretty high value voter contact for local races."

My friend is running for the State Senate seat in Chattanooga, TN. They have begun to suspect that their opponent's people have been stealing signs from a handful of heavily-trafficked intersections, which suggests that signs are indeed useful for her campaign.
posted by palindromic at 7:28 PM on October 15, 2016


ROU_Xenophobe I'm in NY-27, and the Independent in question is Stephen Roberts. I was being cagy about my location, but it's a densely populated city and that's not really useful in the context of district-level discussions.

If there's some dog-whistle in his platform that I'm missing (I've only lived here for a couple years), I'd really appreciate it being pointed out, but he seems to have liberal leanings and a track record of successful community activism.
posted by Leslie Knope at 7:29 PM on October 15, 2016




Utah may come out of 2016 able to tell the GOP, pick a candidate acceptable to us or lose. That is a lot of leverage.

That presupposes a scenario in which Utah is the critical swing state of the election.
posted by EarBucket at 7:31 PM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]




Anxiously awaiting the day when Utah and Idaho are the swing states!
posted by phliar at 7:33 PM on October 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


That presupposes a scenario in which Utah is the critical swing state of the election.

The GOP can't afford to lose any more safe states. They certainly can't afford to split. Utah may be able to have additional influence if they show some independence. Especially since Utah isn't going to go permanently blue any time soon. That indicates the GOP can win them back as long as they don't pick another Trump.
posted by honestcoyote at 7:36 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Josh Marshall: Thoughts About Political Coalitions:
In any case, I think this shrinking electoral base, highly driven by demography, is a critical part of the backstory of this election. There's much discussion of the fact that many whites see the prospect of a white majority America slipping away and this election as the 'last chance' to turn back the tide. But another dimension of the story is that as the GOP electoral base has shrunk it has required increasingly apocalyptic arguments and more extravagant promises to activate that base to a sufficient intensity to win elections. But that comes at the cost of slowly degrading their own credibility by painting an escalating cast of horrors and dangers they're never able to solve and in most cases do not even logically address. Most of these promises are simply unrealizable - thus the focus on blocking things rather than pushing an agenda that can sustain popular support. That in turn is I think the root of the now almost total disconnect between GOP elites (the 'establishment') and the bulk of Republicans voters. Trumpers say they've been lied to by their leaders. And in a very real sense they have been.
posted by palindromic at 7:37 PM on October 15, 2016 [25 favorites]


I'm in NY-27

From here it looks like your choices are someone who seems to play ball with the Democratic leadership or an independent who, even if progressive-ish, might or might not do so.

And the last thing the NY Senate needs... well, fine, if I'm being truthful the *last* thing it needs is probably to be captured by Reavers or infected with FEV. But it certainly doesn't need even more notionally-leftish people who won't actively caucus with the Democrats. This is a big enough problem as it is, what with the Four Doofuses in the independent caucus. Hoylman = Cuomo and Heastie and Stewart-Cousins and other Democratic leaders, while Roberts = ... who knows who will offer him the best deal?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:38 PM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Hypernormalisation: Adam Curtis plots a path from Syria to Trump, via Jane Fonda

Oooh! I was just thinking that I hadn't seen much of Adam Curtis in a while. Thanks for the heads up!
posted by lkc at 7:39 PM on October 15, 2016


MeFites United dropped to to third place! Rally, my brethren!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:40 PM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


So this Hillary Clinton piece on CNN is amazing. It just makes me prouder to support her.
posted by Talez at 7:42 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Am I wrong, or does Clinton have all the newspaper endorsements and Trump have all the police union endorsements? Is that seriously how this is shaking out?

*pours another drink*
posted by EatTheWeek at 7:42 PM on October 15, 2016 [22 favorites]


I wonder how Egg will do in Idaho, Nevada and Wyoming. These states also have fairly significant Morman populations. It seems like he should be a big factor in Nevada especially.
posted by humanfont at 7:43 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


ROU_Xenophobe, many thanks for your insights. Given the problems with independents that you describe, I think I'll follow your advice and vote for the Democrat. (In general, I need to be more informed about state-level politics. Much of focus is unproductively split between classes and "look at this horrible thing Trump did.")
posted by Leslie Knope at 7:43 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


But another dimension of the story is that as the GOP electoral base has shrunk it has required increasingly apocalyptic arguments and more extravagant promises to activate that base to a sufficient intensity to win elections.

Ooh, I had not connected those dots before. Great point.
posted by sallybrown at 7:50 PM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


Mefites United is in third place--behind the teams headed by the fabled Jess of the HFA staff, and a team associated with Michelle Obama.

I still think we can take 'em (it's bedtime where I am, will phone more tomorrow), but as United Mefite I think I can rest easy knowing those two teams are ahead of us.
posted by Sublimity at 7:50 PM on October 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


Re: signs. I think we may be getting to the point where strategists (see, for example, Republican Mike Murphy) have finally convinced the candidates that lawn signs are not effective.

Now they just have to convince the general public. I got kind of descended on by someone I work with because she knew I volunteered for the campaign, and she desperately wanted a yard sign to stick it to her deep red neighborhood. I explained that they're doing fewer yard signs because they really don't accomplish anything and, uh. Well, she technically wasn't yelling at me, just in my general direction, but it left kind of a nasty taste in my mouth. (At one point I had to tell her that I wasn't volunteering with the campaign to get stuff, I was doing it so I could say someday that I was a part of all of this.) Just...make your own yard sign. Urgh. (Sorry. I feel better telling people now.)

All of this is also kinda null to me because I live in a neighborhood where no one has a yard, but also I would bet actual money that my division at least, and possibly my entire ward, will not produce a single vote for Trump. It's nice to have some more anti-yard-sign arguments, though.
posted by kalimac at 7:50 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


And the civil war continues...

Donald Trump camp rebukes Ohio GOP Chair Matt Borges, cuts ties


Yes, well, remember this is the guy who's wife wouldn't let him put Trump signs in their yard. To the new alt-right GOP, he's a "cuck."
posted by zakur at 7:52 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Long winded thoughts about emails and donation info:

1. I'd compare 2008 data to 2016 data simply because thoyse were both two noobs running. 2012 might have been a down year for Dem donations because Obama didn't need a primary.

2. I dontated a small amount to some parties and eventually it was on the Internet with my name, addy, etc from sites that scraped FEC and other public records information.

3. The "numbers" for x people in your town have donated are likely accurate. The email database programs can target very specifically with good data, and there is no reason to lie about how many people in an area donated. It's in the school of thought of ultra personalization and persuasive targeting. The actual email says all the words but the name (yours) and the town and town data are variables plugged in from a script on sending. "Your" numbers are imported from the donor database.

4.The multiple emails thing has been around a while, but as I read in a marketing blog post the other day, the Dems let you crank back the number of emails you get depending on how a group has their software set up.

5. The email slam is a wide spreading technique. To press different levels of urgency, to stay top of mind, to catch people when they've been pissed at something that just broke. They get responses by multiple emails per day on thaws funnels so they keep doing it. Midnight deadlines, last chances, etc. Super funnelization, basically.
posted by tilde at 7:53 PM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


(hello!)
posted by carsondial


How do you shave in there?
posted by carsonb at 7:54 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Indiana voter, I just got push polled on my front steps this morning by some bro with 'Americans For Prosperity' against Evan Bayh.

"Did you know Evan Bayh drinks the blood of children?"

I'll be so happy when those fuckers lose the presidency, senate, AND governorship in one swell foop.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:54 PM on October 15, 2016 [12 favorites]


On yard signs, the Indiana Democratic Party called ME and asked if I'd be willing to put up a yard sign. I said yes, assuming they were just gauging interest, but then somebody delivered signs to my front steps! So somebody in politics still likes yard signs.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:59 PM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Trump got his first and so far only newspaper endorsement yesterday, from the Santa Barbara News-Press.
posted by monospace at 7:59 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I wonder how Egg will do in Idaho, Nevada and Wyoming. These states also have fairly significant Morman populations. It seems like he should be a big factor in Nevada especially.

Egg isn't on the ballot in Nevada. I haven't seen any polls in Idaho with Egg on them, and the top weighted poll for the state on 538 is over a month old but has 12% for other candidates, not including Stein, Johnson, and don't know.

I did tweet @ppppolls to ask if they'd do an Idaho poll, but I didn't get any response, presumably because the account is too busy trying to teach Trump supporters grammar and how documents can be faked.
posted by ckape at 7:59 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I don't even think I'm a registered democrat, so I don't know where they got my name and number.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:59 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Metafilter's community guidelines will not permit me to express the full extent of my dislike for that man, nor to say what fate I think he truly deserves.
posted by
Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The

I think we can guess you would get the GCU Grey Area on the case.
posted by Bringer Tom at 8:00 PM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]




I have three signs up in my front yard but my frontage is over 200 feet.
posted by Talez at 8:02 PM on October 15, 2016


How do you shave in there?

I guess by that point Grant's character is going by Alexander so it's not really appropriate. How about, I have chicken, chicken, liverwurst, and chicken?

Sorry for the derail charade, it's just so pleasant to see a name association that isn't Dr. Ben Carson. I'm also a little giddy because I did my first few calls from home but it's Saturday night so nobody's home. I stopped after a few because I realized I really wanted to do one of the training calls first, and because I need to write down a few talking points to have handy. I'm glad that I did a couple though, first little trickle through the dam y'know?
posted by carsonb at 8:02 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


The Santa Barbara News-Press is no longer a real newspaper, is it? I'm pretty sure thats the one that fired everybody when the new owner took over.
posted by Justinian at 8:02 PM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Longtime Virginia resident here and I can't recommend voting absentee in person enough. You get to put your paper ballot through the machine just like Election Day. If you pick a random afternoon it takes about 5-10 minutes vs the long waits on Election Day. I voted last week.

I voted today! I look forward to showing my boy that picture when he's older and telling him he helped me mark the ballot for the first female president.

It wasn't even 5 minutes for us unless you count parking and walking in. It's marginally slower than Election Day because you have to fill out a short absenteee request form with your name and address and reason for voting absentee. I selected working out of the county and the only additional information asked is your employer name. A few reasons you can select require no additional information at all.

One valid reason is if you're going go volunteer as a poll worker. My job no longer allows me to do that - man I loved having volunteer leave I could use for whatever service I so desired. - but that for sure would cover you and be a good deed.

We were at one of the secondary locations for Arlington and the fellow handing me my actual ballot scratched through 376 on his sheet. I asked if that was today or this election. Just today, he said - the previous Saturday (the second since voting opened, as I recall) they'd done twice that.
posted by phearlez at 8:07 PM on October 15, 2016 [23 favorites]


The GOP has crowded primaries because a high profile candidate, after dropping out, can get a lucrative job as a FOX News commentator or another cushy conservative huckster post. There are no such consolation prizes on the Dem side, so those races are mostly limited to people with political goals.

So if the GOP require all candidates for the presidential nomination to have at least one instance of being elected to either a national office or a state governship we'll be spared this farce of a candidate in the future. True, it doesn't rule out people like 1.5-term governor Palin from running in the future. But it keeps out those people who are angling for a Fox commentator job or looking for some free publicity for their hotel chain.
posted by morspin at 8:08 PM on October 15, 2016


I think we may be getting to the point where strategists (see, for example, Republican Mike Murphy) have finally convinced the candidates that lawn signs are not effective.

I believe the current thinking is that lawn signs have a role to play downballot, especially state-leg and local races, where they improve name recognition, but not so much in presidential and statewide races.

Anecdotally, I've seen lots of signs on grass verges, and home signs in certain neighbourhoods, all for local races. (The most prominent ones are for the county commission chair GOP candidate.) The household down the road that had a Romney-Ryan sign in 2012 and a Cruz sign during the primary has... no sign.
posted by holgate at 8:14 PM on October 15, 2016


From 2013:

@realDonaldTrump:
"@rexrode_lisa "@realDonaldTrump you date girls young enough to be your daughter. That's perverted"

Dated. No, that's talent."
posted by chris24 at 8:20 PM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


My stupid joke for today: Welcome Wikileaks Clinton Bombshell
posted by roll truck roll at 8:22 PM on October 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


I was chatting with my brother on the phone today, and we got onto the election, he's been really busy and isn't on MeFi so I had lots more data than he did. But in talking about the women coming forward about Trump manhandling them, I mentioned how easy I found it to believe them, and then said, "And for the ten or twenty that come forward, there are probably hundreds more."

And he protested, "Hundreds? Really?"

And then I did the math. Trump is 70. He was named "Ladies' Man" in high school. He was born into wealth and privilege, and was young at a time when few girls or women could do more than dodge a guy's roaming hands.

Over the course of 55 years of unfettered privilege? Yes, I absolutely believe Trump has groped, manhandled, assaulted over a hundred women. To get to 100, that's only 2 per year, after all. And I'm damned sure he's assaulted more than 2 per year.
posted by suelac at 8:26 PM on October 15, 2016 [80 favorites]


Oh yeah, for those still complaining about "not liking the mail in ballot" - mine is scheduled to be dropped in the mail the 19th according to the oregon voter website.

Looking forward to voting next weekend.
posted by mrzarquon at 8:34 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


The World-Herald just endorsed Clinton, the first Democrat they have endorsed in something like 84 years. But the truly remarkable thing is this: I just moved away from Omaha, where I was basically the city's official historian, so I can say this with some authority: Omaha is a town of belligerent incompetence and cronnyism where a lot of businesses are run by the absentee (but nonetheless egomaniacal) scions of a previous generation's semi-criminal businessmen, and the Herald has always had it's fingers in all those pies.

So you would think if anyone would endorse Trump, it would be them.
posted by maxsparber at 8:42 PM on October 15, 2016 [29 favorites]




that was . . . unexpected, even for this election cycle
posted by R.F.Simpson at 8:46 PM on October 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


Well a lot of shit is breaking loose in my world as a direct result of Donald Trump and I can't say I'm sorry. My very dear, extremely private and reserved 72-year-old friend just posted on FB about being molested as a child and never telling anyone about it, and half of our social circle wrote about being sexually assaulted themselves in their replies. I was raped when I was 12 and never told anyone about it and now I seem to be telling everyone left and right. I don't quite recognize this new emotion, although I'm sure there must be a German word for it. Is there one for infuriated yet slightly giddy with relief?
posted by HotToddy at 8:49 PM on October 15, 2016 [121 favorites]


This is really the least WTF-worthy thing about that video, but when I clicked that link, I had certain expectations, and I really did not expect Shostakovich to be the soundtrack.
posted by zachlipton at 8:51 PM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


1. Someone in charge of the entertainment for the Hindu Coalition seems to have watched a little too much Bollywood.

2. Those weren't jihadists, they were jawas.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:51 PM on October 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


At the Republican Hindu Coalition Trump event, fake Michael Jackson was followed by dancers attacked by fake jihadists and rescued by fake Navy Seals

What.

What.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 8:57 PM on October 15, 2016 [22 favorites]


Young-people-blood-obsessed rich asshole decides that racist, misogynist, "rich" sexual predator asshole has excellent judgement, donates $1.25 million to Donald's campaign.

The timing is about as brilliant as that of Cruz's endorsement.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:57 PM on October 15, 2016 [14 favorites]


At the Republican Hindu Coalition Trump event, fake Michael Jackson was followed by dancers attacked by fake jihadists and rescued by fake Navy Seals [REAL]

That's just so... completely confusing. So's that's supposed to like fire up racists in the woods in Ohio? Shore up Trump's base in this new Russia-friendly India? I honestly don't know what to do with this.
posted by rp at 8:58 PM on October 15, 2016


I kind of like that whatever it is. Some amazing American melting pot that is!
posted by R343L at 9:00 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


I... genuinely don't know what to say about that event. I think this is the line where the craziness of this election finally broke my brain.

Cuckoo, cuckoo.
posted by Archelaus at 9:02 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


So Trump was quite clear about the whole "one people under one god" thing not that long ago. How the heck can Hindus who support him, even if it's a very small number, square that circle?
posted by zachlipton at 9:03 PM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


Thiel can go fuck himself, btw. I'm going to really need a comprehensive list of anything that I might use that could possibly send money in his direction because he is like comic book villain levels of nefarious.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:06 PM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]


Fun anecdote: we have the only Hilary sign (or any sign) on our street. The next door neighbors are nice but they keep up their yard much better than we do and are very conservative church types so I always worry they are judging us. One of them got a package for us yesterday, that was only a plain t-shirt but came from an Amazon seller with "Nayked" in the company name so now I wonder if they think it was sex toys or something, confirming all their prejudices about Democrats.*

It's a heavy burden to be the only avowed liberal people know :(

*nothing wrong with sex toys but if I was going to order them it wouldn't be from a place with a name like that, come on.
posted by emjaybee at 9:09 PM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


So Trump was quite clear about the whole "one people under one god" thing not that long ago. How the heck can Hindus who support him, even if it's a very small number, square that circle?

There's an argument to be made that Hinduism is monotheistic. (I mean, really these terms are wholly inadequate altogether just in general, but this is shitty fascist rhetoric so theological quibbles are the least of its problems.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:11 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Re drug testing, a super quick google search says cocaine isn't traceable after a few days, except in hair, so he'd be clean by Weds if it's just a pee test.
posted by soakimbo at 9:12 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


The Hindus who support him are so blinded by anti-Muslim sentiment that they're really attracted to Trump. There are a number of parallels between his rise and that of Modi in India: super nationalistic, promising to end corruption, xenophobic etc. Most of my close friends are thankfully against both, but I have noticed a number of articles from Indians rethinking their support for Modi after the experience of being a minority in the US during the rise of Trump. And then there are the idiots in India who like both of them. I have a Facebook friend in India who is always posting stupid things about people just not liking Trump because he says things that hurt people's feelings, and both sides would be catastrophic etc. I have just decided that he is speaking from a position of ignorance and am going to ignore.
posted by peacheater at 9:13 PM on October 15, 2016 [12 favorites]


Young-people-blood-obsessed rich asshole decides that racist, misogynist, "rich" sexual predator asshole has excellent judgement, donates $1.25 million to Donald's campaign. Grifter got grifted.

FTFY.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:13 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


The highschool kids I taught in rural Maryland used to ask me if I wasn't afraid I was going to get shot every time I'd mention that husband and I were going to DC for the weekend.

Y'know how Seattle is supposed to be a super-strong bastion of liberals?

For a long time, I subbed in several districts in the Seattle area. One of my biggest customers, as it were, was the school district in Tukwila, which is a "suburb" of Seattle in as much that if you step foot outside of SeaTac airport your foot will probably land in Tukwila. The area is one of the big settling points for refugees coming through the International Rescue Committee, so it's incredibly diverse. For at least a couple years in recent memory, the high school there was the single most diverse high school in the nation according to Time.

So naturally, I've had kids from affluent mostly-white Seattle high schools ask me how I wasn't afraid to teach there and "isn't that the ghetto?" and worse.

The awful thing about liberalism in the Pacific Northwest is that an awful lot of people here are only liberal in the abstract. Things like equality and social justice are super important as long as you don't have to, like, mingle with "those people."

And that's why every time I hear people talk about this or that state being "safe" I think they're crazy. I'm glad the "If men only voted" map shows WA and my home state of CA still solidly blue, but for God's sake don't ever take that for granted. And I'm sure as hell not okay with people talking about protest votes because their state will "definitely" go for Clinton.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:15 PM on October 15, 2016 [61 favorites]


So Trump was quite clear about the whole "one people under one god" thing not that long ago. How the heck can Hindus who support him, even if it's a very small number, square that circle?

Trump was asked this question and replied with "Oh you know they'll switch to Buddha who is kind of like Jesus!" [fake]
posted by Talez at 9:16 PM on October 15, 2016


Re drug testing, a super quick google search says cocaine isn't traceable after a few days, except in hair, so he'd be clean by Weds if it's just a pee test

Dude takes legal pharmaceuticals anyway. That's why he goes to Dr. Spaceman and why he can claim that he's lifelong clean and sober. He doesn't think his Donnie's Little Helper pills count as drugs because he neeeeds them and they're legal.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:17 PM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]


Leading Trump surrogate Sheriff Clarke now calling for mob violence.
Trump announces support from Florida sheriffs

I wonder if Pamela Eliot is the template for Trump law enforcement.

"Trump: "I am a big fan of Hindu and I am a big fan of Indian."

I remember seeing a yellow pages ad (this was of course years ago) for an auto garage that listed a number of languages they could communicate in, such as Italian, Greek, so on and so forth and the kicker language, Oriental. It became a running joke for years and I have lot of Indian friends so the do you speak Indian question came up and then a friend of mine went on a date where he was asked both if he spoke Indian and if there was a possiblility he might be with the terrorists.

Puts on the Smith's That Joke isn't Funny Anymore.
posted by juiceCake at 9:20 PM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


At the Republican Hindu Coalition Trump event, fake Michael Jackson was followed by dancers attacked by fake jihadists and rescued by fake Navy Seals [REAL]

I know this was posted like 40 minutes ago, but I feel compelled to say I am still firmly in WTF-DID-I-JUST-WATCH jaw open mode.

Be sure to watch the the other videos from the same event (scroll up/down on the tweet).
posted by zachlipton at 9:24 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Dude takes legal pharmaceuticals anyway. That's why he goes to Dr. Spaceman and why he can claim that he's lifelong clean and sober. He doesn't think his Donnie's Little Helper pills count as drugs because he neeeeds them and they're legal.

I was prescribed adderal for 10 years for a sleep disorder and not for add and I see so much of that in trump. The fearless enthusiasm and confidence. The constant changing of subject. The flights of fancy he seizes and won't let go. I can't say for sure of course, but I'm not imagining, I'm recognizing.
posted by Brainy at 9:24 PM on October 15, 2016 [20 favorites]


The Hindus who support him are so blinded by anti-Muslim sentiment that they're really attracted to Trump

Not just anti-Muslim, mind you. I have had to walk away from more than one friendship after they espoused that blacks would be fine if they just worked as hard as Indian immigrants did. But, those acquaintances have also said they are voting libertarian, so.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:26 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]




The whole drug test thing is crazy talk. He won't release real medical records. I'm pretty certain what he's actually asking for is, Hillary takes a drug test, and he submits a doctor's statement from his own doctor stating that he took a drug test and it was negative.
posted by Mchelly at 9:27 PM on October 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


"Donald J. Trump's body naturally produces enough cocaine each day to enable him to singlehandedly defeat ISIS with a single crane kick." -- Epstein's Mother Donald's Doctor
posted by tonycpsu at 9:29 PM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]


The whole drug test thing is crazy talk. He won't release real medical records. I'm pretty certain what he's actually asking for is, Hillary takes a drug test, and he submits a doctor's statement from his own doctor stating that he took a drug test and it was negative.

Seriously. How about you go ahead and release those tax records, Trump Foundation records, and real medical records, and then we'll talk about maybe adding more stuff for candidates to do, eh Donald?
posted by Spathe Cadet at 9:31 PM on October 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


The whole drug test thing is crazy talk. He won't release real medical records. I'm pretty certain what he's actually asking for is, Hillary takes a drug test, and he submits a doctor's statement from his own doctor stating that he took a drug test and it was negative.

But his doctor already wrote a letter stating that all of his tests were positive.
posted by ckape at 9:32 PM on October 15, 2016 [39 favorites]


1. The solution to America's current political problems can be found in the life of Joshua Abraham Norton, the Emperor of San Francisco.
4. So here's the pitch: why don't the people around Trump, already humoring his delusions, just pretend that he's won.
5. Fox News is already a kind of alternative reality. Why not go full Truman Show. Create a fake White House for Trump.
7. Let them have their fantasy world, with Trump interviewed each night by Hannity & O'Reily as "Mr. President."
9. Foreign heads of state would be in on the joke. When visiting USA, they'd drop in on "President Trump" and praise his policies.
10. Everyday staff of "President Trump" would tell him how great he's doing. "The Wall is up, sir & the Mexicans paid for it."
11. Trump is running a Potemkin campaign based on fantasy politics. Why not go whole hog & give him an imaginary presidency?
12. And people who watch Fox and read Breitbart would also share in the fantasy that once again a white man is POTUS.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:38 PM on October 15, 2016 [53 favorites]


For the most hilarious thing you will ever read involving a high level federal government employee taking a drug test, please see Robert B. Reich, Locked in the Cabinet, this excerpt, in which he describes his introduction to the office of Secretary of Labor.
"Federal rek-u-la-tion. Drug test. Can't even be in te cabinet vit-out havink your pee looked at. Quite a country we haf, isn't it?" He laughs, opening the door to the bathroom before ushering me in. "Everyone's got to pee for te government, no matter who. Tot's what I luf about tis country. Everyone's a pisher."
posted by zachlipton at 9:40 PM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


Encasing Trump and his supporters in a giant Truman dome is tempting.
posted by ckape at 9:40 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Honestly, that's an insult to Emperor Norton, and I won't stand for it.
posted by yasaman at 9:42 PM on October 15, 2016 [35 favorites]


White nationalist with a strange affinity for India seemingly at odds with his own doctrine of racial superiority? That is some top-level Godwin-baiting.
posted by ckape at 9:43 PM on October 15, 2016 [18 favorites]


Best damn emperor we've ever had
posted by aubilenon at 9:45 PM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


The most Baldwin of the brothers is an imperfect ally. Yes, yes. We get it. He is legit doing God's work with SNL this year as Trump, tho.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:48 PM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]




This interview with Egg (him?) apparently slipped under the radar here. Tl'dr: there's nothing wrong with Republican policies except the racism. He doesn't seem to realize that the racism drives 70% of the policy in the first place, with the remainder of course going to tax cuts.

But hey, if he makes Mormons in Utah feel better, more mayo to you, Egg.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:51 PM on October 15, 2016 [16 favorites]


> Wow, I bet he loves Erdogan, then.

Yes, he does. From July: Trump says U.S. shouldn’t criticize Turkey’s Erdogan over post-coup purge.

As an aside, from Modi to Putin to Farage to Erdogan, the level of global consciousness (and dare I say ... solidarity?) among the current crop of nationalist reactionaries is both remarkable and alarming.
posted by shenderson at 9:54 PM on October 15, 2016 [26 favorites]


To the new alt-right GOP, he's a "cuck."

I'm late to catch up on this thread, but I've seen this word thrown around a lot on Twitter, FB, etc., and apparently it's the Alt-Right's newest favored insult. But I first encountered it long ago in a different area of the internet, and so now each time I see it - while I realize they're hoping somebody is going to get upset - all I can think is, "Oh honey, nobody cares about your kink."
posted by jessian at 10:08 PM on October 15, 2016 [37 favorites]


I see folks in these threads exclaiming things like "I mean, for fuck's sake – have these people actually ever met a [insert identity group here]?". And, well, no – a shockingly large number of them haven't.

The small town of 15,000 where I sort of live and my husband and I have worked for the last 10 years definitely has no Muslim residents. Or Hindu. I'd be surprised if there were any Buddhists (other than white folks doing yoga), and hell, I'm pretty sure there aren't any Jews. There aren't any places of worship that aren't Christian and the town is predominantly white, with a minority Black population and some Latinos, though nothing like the presence I'm used to coming from Houston.

I've never really thought about the lack of religious diversity before. (Racial, yes, but not specifically religious.) The next small city over is a college town, so there is a more diverse population of students and professors there. Now I'm wondering if there's even a mosque there, though. (I have a Muslim friend there, but he's never mentioned attending services.)

Now I've googled, and there is one mosque in (the college) town, and it was the site of a shooting recently where someone shot the building up in the middle of the night. So, yanno, that's great.

But yeah, it's easy to forget that large swaths of the country are really pretty monochromatic when you grow up somewhere diverse. I mean I had several Muslim classmates even in my Catholic private school. But for a lot of people, they really can be "those people" that they hear about and see on TV, but don't actually know. It's not an excuse, but maybe some kind of explanation.
posted by threeturtles at 10:33 PM on October 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


I see 538 has separate lines for Electoral College deadlock and 269-269 tie now.

By subtracting these two items I can figure out the approximate chance of Egg McMuffin spoiling the election. Let's see, on polls-only a 0.4% chance of deadlock minus a 0.4% chance of Trump and Clinton each getting 269 EVs is approximately ... rounding error.
posted by ckape at 10:36 PM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


It makes perfect sense that usage of a shitty word like "cuck" would migrate from MRA pricks to Trumplets.

It's the same people -- they're just posting on different subreddits.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:44 PM on October 15, 2016 [54 favorites]


It's the same people -- they're just posting on different subreddits.

Draw a Venn diagram of MRAs, GamerGaters, white supremacists, and alt-right Pepe loving goons, and you'd just have a big wobbly circle.
posted by palomar at 10:50 PM on October 15, 2016 [61 favorites]


It's the same people -- they're just posting on different subreddits.

The MRA / goobergobshite / *chanlulz / Trumpkin cohorts can be described by a Venn diagram that's just a circle. The stuff that doesn't come directly from Trump's mouth or actions can be extrapolated from that.
posted by holgate at 10:51 PM on October 15, 2016 [11 favorites]


The whole drug test thing is crazy talk.

"Donald, why don't we skip the drug test and just go right to the part where you say it's rigged?" [fake]
posted by PlusDistance at 10:53 PM on October 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


If you draw a Venn diagram of palomar's comment, holgate's, and this one, it looks like three concentric rings.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:54 PM on October 15, 2016 [42 favorites]


Y'know if you made a Venn diagram of these people, it'd just be one big

...oh.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:55 PM on October 15, 2016 [19 favorites]


I think you meant O .
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:58 PM on October 15, 2016 [62 favorites]


I was prescribed adderal for 10 years for a sleep disorder and not for add and I see so much of that in trump.

Trump supporters have made a big deal about a researcher who emailed HRC details about Provigil/modafinil in 2011; the obvious explanation was that it was considered an option (less iffy than Ambien in terms of dependency) to counter jet lag on long State trips, and it followed on from gossip about Obama taking an unnamed jet lag medication. But because modafinil is also an off-label Parkinson's / dementia treatment, that's what the tinfoil loons jumped on.

With respect to Trump, there's been an uppers/downers vibe throughout the campaign, and today's "she should take a drug test" taps into the projection that has also run through the campaign.
posted by holgate at 11:22 PM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


At this rate, he's going to start kicking off his rallies to the dulcet tones of "Dr. Feelgood."
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 11:39 PM on October 15, 2016


SNL's Melaniade was pretty awesome.
posted by asteria at 11:48 PM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


You know, America'a greatness isn't just that it has space for idiots from many area and religions, but that it gives political space to all of them. To that extent, I'm not surprised that there's a cabal of dance-loving, Muslim-hating racist Hindus who love Trump. Presumably, they'd even have enough that discretionary income to put up a little dog-and-pony show for the world's cameras; in that sense, they're exactly like their idiot cousins in India who had another dog-and-pony show in July in Delhi.

Here's the thing though. When you're behind 30 days before an election in must win-states and among must-win demographics such as college-educated people, why would you want to spend precious time sucking up to events where you look silly? Especially when the demographic (South Asian) votes 77% against you and in a state you are bound to lose? Is sleeping in your own bed so important that you commit actual political malpractice?
posted by the cydonian at 11:55 PM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Here's the SNL Melaniade video for your streaming pleasure.
posted by zachlipton at 11:56 PM on October 15, 2016 [16 favorites]


"We don't always update our forecast at 2 in the morning, but when we do, we post about it on Twitter"

Nate Silver updates his forecast. (Clinton with an 84.8% chance of winning, if you don't want to click through.)

One thing I've been hoping for - and still regard as a possibility - is the Democrats might finally break the mid-US lock the Republicans have had over the electoral college for 30+ years. If they can turn just a few states (Arizona, Kansas and Missouri in the current projection) then they could create a blue belt from one coast to the other*. Not only would this create an obvious electoral gain and a strong mandate, but I think it would be a powerful psychological statement: that Middle America is also capable of rejecting the hate and racism that has been completely exposed in the Republican party.

And since voters who cast their ballot for a political party in an election are more likely to do the same in the next, it could be the start of a substantial turn in the mid-West.

*I call it the "March to the Sea Initiative", but don't use that term in polite politically mixed company, for obvious reasons.
posted by Bora Horza Gobuchul at 12:07 AM on October 16, 2016 [31 favorites]


I think labeling a meeting with one's supporters as political malpractice is dangerously unkind, no matter the scenario. It may unhelpful, but not actively harmful.
posted by clorox at 12:07 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Down by as much as Trump is, this close to election day, spending time on anything that isn't actively helpful is actively harmful.
posted by dersins at 12:20 AM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


Is sleeping in your own bed so important that you commit actual political malpractice?

It's on par with various Trump events in the past couple of weeks at national conventions for particular groups -- energy executives, veterans groups -- where the attendees have done the travelling. Expedient and convenient, especially because Trump has property deals in India that Kurt Eichenwald collated in his first big Newsweek piece, along with his friendly relationship with Hindu Sena. And Modi sold out Madison Square Garden, as he has done in quite a few arenas on his foreign travels.

Trump was going to spend Sunday in NYC no matter what, so he got in some pandering to a group that includes people who think he's a genius and people who support his Indian co-branding deals.
posted by holgate at 12:20 AM on October 16, 2016 [6 favorites]


Now that I think of it, it probably depends on the group of supporters. Unless there's some real bad stuff that hasn't yet come out, the Republican Hindu Coalition is not something that the rotten pumpkin is going to be hurt by being associated with.

Down by as much as Trump is, this close to election day, spending time on anything that isn't actively helpful is actively harmful.
This is only true if the orange poltroon's only goal is winning the election. As has been mentioned before, there might be some ulterior motives as play.
posted by clorox at 12:23 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


SNL Weekend Update: "You can't talk like that." "Why? Billy Bush said bad things and my mama said he might get $10 million dollars. From this network."
posted by zachlipton at 12:26 AM on October 16, 2016 [40 favorites]


Especially when the demographic (South Asian) votes 77% against you and in a state you are bound to lose? Is sleeping in your own bed so important that you commit actual political malpractice?

I think that in some real psychological sense Trump may not be fully aware of or accepting of the full personhood of human beings beyond himself, his immediate family and a handful of loyal Steves and Merediths.

At some point in this Fukushima-level cascade of failures that is the Trump Train, Trump became dimly aware that there is a game called "electoral college" and if he gets the 270 points then people will respect him and do what he says.

I think he's kind of forgotten about that game now, though, because he never really got the hang of all the rules. So now he's running to be king of the Deplorables and that seems to be going better for him. Almost all the Deplorables are white people which is ok with Trump but he figures it would be nice to have a couple latinos, south asians and so on around because variety is the spice of life, etc.

So that's my best stab at why the Republican candidate for president is campaigning at an Indian event in New Jersey three weeks before an election
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:41 AM on October 16, 2016 [7 favorites]


Nate Silver updates his forecast. (Clinton with an 84.8% chance of winning, if you don't want to click through.)

Otherwise known as Russian Roulette odds.
posted by indubitable at 12:54 AM on October 16, 2016 [9 favorites]


Coming up with "likelihood percentages" based on the behavior of certain people (the candidates and their organizations) and the reaction of a much larger group of people (the electorate), especially at a time when both major party candidates have factors that are unprecedented (the gender of one, the psychological instability of the other), just strikes me as a gross abuse of statistical analysis.

May I (for the umpteenth time) refer you to my all-time favorite short non-fiction book, Darrell Huff's "How to Lie With Statistics", written before I was born and which became the best selling book on statistics of the 2nd-half of the 20th century. If Darrell Huff were still alive today, he'd need a volume twice as long to simply cover the statistical awfulness of this election year.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:13 AM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


Otherwise known as Russian Roulette odds.

Of course in this game, the GOP is playing with an automatic pistol...
posted by happyroach at 1:36 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


So, for months now, Trump has reminded me of someone - a singer or actor from the '50s, I thought, maybe some obscure figure I'd read about in Hollywood Babylon?

Today my brain finally got its act together and the name popped into my head: Tony Polar!

It's been twenty years since I read Valley of the Dolls, but this is kind of spot on, right?

The perpetual adolescence, the weird charisma, the secret dementia, the obsession with and horrifying treatment of women, the creepy relationship with a female relative who both excuses and enables his behaviour. Ivana is Jennifer North on her wedding night. Ivanka is Donald's loyal Miriam. And I'm pretty sure I'd need several fistfuls of Nembutal to cope with spending more than 30 seconds in Trump's company.

Sorry, I realise this doesn't really add anything to the thread, but it's has been on the tip of my tongue for so long that I couldn't help but comment.
posted by jack_mo at 1:40 AM on October 16, 2016 [11 favorites]


WORD PROBLEM: Donald Trump either sexually assaulted or creeped on woman twice a week, and has been doing it for 50 years, how many potential victims are there?

Answer: nbr victims per week X nbr weeks X 50 years

2 victims / week x 52 weeks / year x 50 years =

5200 victims.
posted by mikelieman at 1:52 AM on October 16, 2016 [10 favorites]




Nate Silver updates his forecast. (Clinton with an 84.8% chance of winning, if you don't want to click through.)

PEC at 95% random / 98% bayesian
Electoral-vote at 352-168
TMP at 346-186
HuffPo at 91.5%
NYT Upshot at 89%

Silver's always had the most HRC-pessimistic model. Not that we shouldn't be appropriately worried when she dips in polls, but her numbers across the board are way better than they were a couple weeks ago.

Most likely (puts on Nate Silver's battered, poorly-fitting pundit hat) we saw some differential in poll response rates right after Pussygate that artificially inflated HRC's numbers a bit; she probably never really had a double-digit national lead, just more people than usual who were excited to answer the phone on her behalf.

She's still got this.
posted by saturday_morning at 4:37 AM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


you know, I feel a bit evil saying this, but I hope the FBI has undercover officers at Trump rallies who are getting sweet invites into whatever heart of darkness the deplorables exist in. Maybe prevent the next OKC or however these spasms of hatred are going to manifest.
posted by angrycat at 4:41 AM on October 16, 2016 [39 favorites]


I want to thank everyone who has participated in these threads by allowing women to speak, be heard, and supported. This week has brought to the surface so much ugliness experienced by myself and countless others who are looked upon as lesser because of our gender. My story is one that has been told in these threads by many others- molestation, rape, sexual assault, sexual harassment in the workplace. To hear a presidential candidate validate and excuse this behavior has sent me into a tailspin of panic attacks, crying jags, vomiting, and fits of absolute rage. "Kiss them, grab them by the pussy, they let you," "if you can't handle harassment get another job," "I wouldn't assault her, she's too ugly" (all paraphrased of course)...it's becoming too much for me to handle. It may be time to stop following the election for a while. But Hillary makes me feel heard. Michelle Obama makes me feel heard. And you, mefites, you make me feel heard. Thank you for being a community of support, intelligent discourse, humor, and rationality.
posted by pupperduck at 5:06 AM on October 16, 2016 [144 favorites]


that was only a plain t-shirt but came from an Amazon seller with "Nayked" in the company name so now I wonder if they think it was sex toys or something

OT but funny: I dearly miss the late lamented Loompanics mail-order bookstore, but one fine day they sent us our order in a sensibly recycled box in which they had received a shipment from their printer. It was boldly printed on all six sides with the title SECRETS OF METHAMPHETAMINE MANUFACTURE.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:40 AM on October 16, 2016 [59 favorites]


So genuine question for the lawyers among us: at what point is Trump's rhetoric analogous to yelling "fire" in crowded theater?
posted by schadenfrau at 6:10 AM on October 16, 2016 [7 favorites]


Side note: I am so angry that this is what a good deal of the country associates with New York now. Goddammit.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:14 AM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


I call it the "March to the Sea Initiative"

The Path Between The Seas is more apt, eh?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:15 AM on October 16, 2016


He's been doing it for years.
Donald Trump: Yelling "You're fired!" in a crowded theater.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:17 AM on October 16, 2016 [8 favorites]


Why are my Facebook algorithms thinking I need to see a warning that Matt Drudge is about to prove that Hillary raped a child sex slave named Cathy O'Brien? What the ever living F, Facebook?

What fresh Breitbart fever swamp is this?
posted by clever sheep at 6:25 AM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


He's been doing it for years.
Donald Trump: Yelling "You're fired!" in a crowded theater.


I guess someone else should have told him "it's rigged" and "it's a conspiracy" way back then. Now, a lot of things seem too late.
I just can't get why he doesn't get stopped saying things like "she's the devil" etc. I mean someone suggesting this via backdoors on some stupid pamphlets etc., I would get that, even though it would make me just as sick. But an actual presidential candidate saying all these actual things on camera, in order to actually be seen by millions of people, I just don't get it why there's no law to stop him. But there you are. I'm only married to an American, not actually living there. So I watch in horror and keep not getting it.
posted by Namlit at 6:25 AM on October 16, 2016


I wanted to thank you all for the discussion here. I'm another of those long-time lurkers (oof, has it been 10 years already), and I just registered because of the thoughtful discussion here. (And here I was thinking that I was all disillusioned with Internet communities! It's just hard to find any that aren't toxic!)

There has been a lot of discussion in previous threads and this one regarding urban/rural divide. (For example, How Half of America Lost it's F**king Mind.) I wanted to add a data point to it: I live in rural central New York, and I see approximately equal support on both side of the aisle. In fact, the breakdown usually is between older people (which skew R) and younger people (which skew D). Every farm has a "Trump/Long" sign beside the road, but every brewpub is (to my surprise!) packed with flyers and signs for Hilary and Zephyr Teachout. It seems to me that there is a growing group of young people who are disillusioned with city/suburban/Internet life and have moved out to the country to garden/farm/live-simply/get-more-in-tune-with-nature/be-able-to-afford-a-house-ever/etc. (of which I am certainly part of that group), which makes it very hard for me to see a strict urban/rural breakdown of party support. It seems that this trend has been occurring for decades in Vermont, and is now bleeding over to Upstate New York, as well.

The rural/urban breakdown may be true on an American scale—I can't speak to the Midwest, since I don't live there—but it doesn't appear to be so in the Northeast. (See, for example, the county-by-county breakdown of 2012's election, where so much of the rural Northeast is blue.)
posted by ragtag at 6:27 AM on October 16, 2016 [58 favorites]


The problem with "yelling fire in a crowded theater" as a legal test is that the metaphor was originally used to justify outlawing speech that would now be protected. The case was Schenck v. United States, and the finding was that people didn't necessarily have a right to protest the draft during wartime, because the potential danger was too great. After World War I, the Supreme Court revisited it's wartime anti-free-speech decisions and decided that free speech did, in fact, mean that people had a right to say dangerous things. So under the terms of Schenck, I think that Trump's speech would be illegal, but that isn't how we understand free speech anymore. At this point, I think he would have to incite violence very directly ("kill that federal agent," rather than "kill some federal agents," for instance) for his speech to be illegal.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:29 AM on October 16, 2016 [12 favorites]


(Not a lawyer. Lawyers can correct me if I'm wrong!)
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:30 AM on October 16, 2016


Donnie is tweeting again, SNL pissed him off.

Trump Calls 'Saturday Night Live' Cold Open A Hit Job
posted by mikelieman at 6:30 AM on October 16, 2016 [15 favorites]


The inevitable flurry of day after election identical headlines is something we've all known is coming but hot damn if I am not still giddy to see his smug assface plastered on a million front pages with the headline 'Donald we are going to have to let you go.'
posted by ian1977 at 6:30 AM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


In that SNL trump reaction article, it states that SNL impressions are flattering to neither candidate. So disagree...there is so much obvious love in McKinnon's Clinton. I bet Clinton absolutely loves it.
posted by ian1977 at 6:33 AM on October 16, 2016 [20 favorites]


I'm really hoping for CHEETOH BENITO FINITO as a headline myself.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:33 AM on October 16, 2016 [82 favorites]


Coming up with "likelihood percentages" based on the behavior of certain people (the candidates and their organizations) and the reaction of a much larger group of people (the electorate), especially at a time when both major party candidates have factors that are unprecedented (the gender of one, the psychological instability of the other), just strikes me as a gross abuse of statistical analysis.

It's hard to find a simpler and less controversial model than "Generally, people vote for the person that they told you they would vote for when you asked them."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:34 AM on October 16, 2016 [8 favorites]


Trump Calls 'Saturday Night Live' Cold Open A Hit Job

Wow, that is a beautiful meltdown.
posted by Artw at 6:34 AM on October 16, 2016 [15 favorites]


So under the terms of Schenck, I think that Trump's speech would be illegal, but that isn't how we understand free speech anymore.

Well, "lock her up" without any actual legal backup, just for example, seems very darn close to me to "inciting violence directly" that's why I'm so baffled about the whole course of this campaign.
posted by Namlit at 6:36 AM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


> "At this point, I think he would have to incite violence very directly ('kill that federal agent,' rather than 'kill some federal agents,' for instance) for his speech to be illegal."

Also not a lawyer, but my understanding is that the test is that the violence advocated must be intended, likely, and imminent. So if that's true, the first quote would be illegal, while the second might be illegal depending on the circumstances or might not, and sort of ... abstractly advocating for it as a good idea probably would not be.
posted by kyrademon at 6:36 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Anyone see that snl cold open? I thought it was pretty great
posted by R.F.Simpson at 6:39 AM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


So a local Columbus, OH station got to interview Mike Pence. They told him about an 11 year old girl who said that Trump's words made her feel bad. Mike Pence seamlessly pivots to foreign policy.

That was some fucking artful dodging of a question that has no good answer.
posted by Talez at 6:41 AM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


> "Trump Calls 'Saturday Night Live' Cold Open A Hit Job"

Includes the tweet: "Watched Saturday Night Live hit job on me.Time to retire the boring and unfunny show. Alec Baldwin portrayal stinks. Media rigging election!"

Holy crap he actually literally believes that anything unflattering to him is a form of "rigging".
posted by kyrademon at 6:42 AM on October 16, 2016 [40 favorites]


Anyone see that snl cold open? I thought it was pretty great

Kind of hoping Trump watches it on broadcast.
posted by Artw at 6:54 AM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


Donald Trump thinks SNL is rigging the election and should be canceled

This is really not a good headline to provoke if you want to be seen as being in any way fit for office.
posted by Artw at 7:06 AM on October 16, 2016 [38 favorites]


For continuous tweeting at conspiracy theorists.: Is the Election Rigged Dot Com
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:07 AM on October 16, 2016 [11 favorites]


Clinton holds 11 point lead in 4-way race.

I think he had one or two "good" days in the polls after the debate when CW was that he had "stopped the bleeding" and before his victims started coming out.
posted by condour75 at 7:09 AM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


(and by CW I mean the more idiotic pundits)
posted by condour75 at 7:10 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Clinton holds 11 point lead in 4-way race

Or a 4 point lead. Let's stick with the averages.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:11 AM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


David Frum looking completely bewildered on AM Joy while the guests all talk about the death of the Republican Party and the craven path it has taken since 2008. Double sweet that the other panelists are all women, and two women of color. "I don't know that there will be a Republican Party in the future."

REAP IT, MOTHERFUCKER.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:13 AM on October 16, 2016 [78 favorites]


This is really not a good headline to provoke if you want to be seen as being in any way fit for office.

Especially since every news article about it is going to include at least a clip of the sketch he wants no one to see.
posted by argybarg at 7:31 AM on October 16, 2016 [19 favorites]


> This is really not a good headline to provoke if you want to be seen as being in any way fit for office.


Donald can't take a joke.
posted by mrzarquon at 7:32 AM on October 16, 2016 [17 favorites]


Mike Pence on Meet The Press was just pushing the "media rigging election" narrative and Chuck Todd wasn't having it. It is a really bad strategy when talking to the media, after all. Pence is so spineless, he doesn't even have the guts to ignore the absolutely horrible marching orders from his boss. Delete your campaign.
posted by dis_integration at 7:35 AM on October 16, 2016 [17 favorites]


I missed this WaPo opinion piece when it was published in early August but it is still pertinent today:

Republicans nominate dangerously insane person to lead America, then panic when he proves he’s dangerously insane
posted by TWinbrook8 at 7:39 AM on October 16, 2016 [36 favorites]


If Pence had any integrity, he wouldn't be Trump's running mate. He isn't any better than Christie/Giuliani and probably never was.
posted by Blue Genie at 7:44 AM on October 16, 2016 [8 favorites]


Donald can't take a joke.

He can't even tell a joke. There is an empty space where his sense of humour should be. What he considers funny is insulting people. You would think with the hundreds of hours of speechifying and debating you'd find a joke, but you can't, and that's really pretty weird.
posted by holgate at 7:44 AM on October 16, 2016 [43 favorites]


And he doesn't laugh. There are a few pictures of him sort of yelling, but he doesn't laugh.
posted by argybarg at 7:47 AM on October 16, 2016 [16 favorites]


"I don't know that there will be a Republican Party in the future."

Were these people born yesterday?
posted by indubitable at 7:48 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


He isn't any better than Christie/Giuliani and probably never was.

I'm willing to bet anyone on this thread from Indiana will fully corroborate that.
posted by mcstayinskool at 7:55 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]



If anyone has come across the SNL clips that can be viewed outside of the US could post them that would be awesome. Been looking myself but I've failed so far.
posted by Jalliah at 7:55 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Re SNL: what a difference a year makes. Remember when Donald was on last year as the host? And there were protests even then? (But nothing from Donnie, mind you.)

And here's an article on why Trump wasn't funnier in that episode last year, because "people had already made up their mind about him," which is darkly funny at this point in the election.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:55 AM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


Yeah, I bet it was the Melaniade video that really got under the Don's skin, though he can't admit it.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:58 AM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


Donnie sure gets upset when people do things to his ... reputation ... without his consent.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:00 AM on October 16, 2016 [47 favorites]


Add to the list of things Trump has ruined: yoga. This morning we focused on breathing. We were encouraged to take huyyge breaths because proper breath is huyyge. I can now only hear that word in his voice, sigh. (And a little giggle.)
posted by kinsey at 8:04 AM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


If anyone has come across the SNL clips that can be viewed outside of the US could post them that would be awesome. Been looking myself but I've failed so far.

Maybe try a VPN app on your phone so you can spoof being in US. I've used SurfEasy VPN before.

posted by chris24 at 8:05 AM on October 16, 2016


Maybe try a VPN app on your phone so you can spoof being in US. I've used SurfEasy VPN before.

Cool thanks. :)
posted by Jalliah at 8:08 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Donald Trump vs. Hillary Clinton Town Hall Debate Cold Open - SNL (Official, not sure about region locking)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:09 AM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'm really hoping for CHEETOH BENITO FINITO as a headline myself.

"CHEETO PERDITO!"
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:09 AM on October 16, 2016 [8 favorites]


Here's an unofficial re-hosting of the cold open from SNL, and from there you can find more unofficial clips. There are usually a number of re-posted clips the days after the show, but they'll disappear pretty quickly, only to be re-posted.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:09 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Now that I'm thinking about it, thanks Trump for slamming SNL. Now we can feel assured they won't let you come on the show this year, and nobody can blame them. And I hope Hillary goes on there, gets standing ovations and gets acclaim and positive press from it.
posted by cashman at 8:10 AM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


Is there any reason not to tell people (they are ALWAYS Trump supporters) who feel that the election is "rigged" to not bother voting then?
posted by Cookiebastard at 8:10 AM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


"I don't know that there will be a Republican Party in the future."

The Republican Party isn't going anywhere. Entities with tons of money have so much inertia, it's not like they are just going to fold. But they don't have a winning strategy any more, and the demographics continue to trend away from that agenda of fear, racism, and gridlock. So, they need to get the message their strategy needs to change, and fast.

So what's important with this opportunity, and Americans should view it as an opportunity, is that we make it so the GOP fails so colossally bad that either moderate elements of the G.O.P. gain some traction to change the political conversations we're having, or the angry coward racist whackjob elements are so badly marginalized they are never viewed as a viable political force again. Or both.

To put it another way, I didn't agree with most policies of Rockefeller Republicans, but I'd much rather be dealing with an H.W. Bush type than the Mike Pences, Paul Ryans, and Mitch McConnells of the world. Then we can start arguing about whether to do a lot or a little about climate change instead of whether it exists.

Even more succinct, when you've dug yourself in a hole, first thing to do is stop digging.
posted by mcstayinskool at 8:12 AM on October 16, 2016 [19 favorites]


I'm in the US so can't tell if it is region-blocked, but NBC just released an SNL official app. Cold open sketch autoplays right now when you open it.
posted by mcstayinskool at 8:15 AM on October 16, 2016


Calling back up to the "I'm a Christian first, a conservative second" rhetoric: I realized that the way these folks tend to think about their religious commitment may in part fuel their fear of the Other. They don't know what it would mean to be "a Muslim first," or "Jewish first," or even "Catholic first" (that's still scary to some), and they do know that their religious tradition emphasizes that their first loyalty is not to country (in theory), which leads them to a basic distrust of the non-Christian people whose first loyalty is going to be to some religious system they don't understand. To me this points up two related issues: an impoverishment of imagination rooted in lack of knowledge about other religions and worldviews, and a rejection of the very notion of government as a civic and secular space in which religion might inform your views, but should not get enshrined into law.

I understand what it means to feel you need to be [religion] first, thinking in ways that transcend worldly borders and boundaries and focusing on the wider duty to humanity, but it seems like hard-right evangelicals are unable and unwilling to square that with the secular requirements of civic government. That means they are unable to imagine someone of another religion handling government responsibilities in a manner they can trust. Since they don't want to separate church and state, instead shaping the state as best they can to conform to their religious dictactes, that inevitably makes the state in their eyes a battleground of worldviews - which it doesn't need to be, of course. Jesus had something to say about resolving this seeming conflict, as it happens, but interpretations of course vary.
posted by Miko at 8:16 AM on October 16, 2016 [27 favorites]


SNL’s YouTube channel is viewable from the UK, at least.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 8:16 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


I get it. After reading that one woman said "It wasn't a sexual come-on. I don't know why he did it. It was like just to prove he could do it and nothing would happen."

Of course. He was feeling down or less than, for some reason, and the "pussy grabbing" gave him the boost of self esteem that he needed. It's kind of textbook narcissism.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:18 AM on October 16, 2016 [40 favorites]


Is there any reason not to tell people (they are ALWAYS Trump supporters) who feel that the election is "rigged" to not bother voting then?

Tactically, no. Strategically, it would be better not to undermine faith in the system any further.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:19 AM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


A Trump supporter with possibly the worst vehicle sticker of all time?

That makes me feel new levels of terrified sad.


You can buy its counterpart. Fair And Balanced!
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:20 AM on October 16, 2016 [6 favorites]


Guys! I just found out that the Washington Post offers free unlimited access for anyone with a .gov, .mil or .edu email address. Just a heads up if you qualify.

I'm actually still thinking about subscribing. I feel like I should put my money where my mouth is, because the Washington Post has been doing really good work recently, about the election but also about other things.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:22 AM on October 16, 2016 [29 favorites]


I don't know that there will be a Republican Party in the future."


For those taking this literally, or wondering about the credibility of the speaker: in context my sense was this meant "I don't know that there will be a [nationally relevant] Republican Party."

And the speaker was Never Trumper Jennifer Rubin, who...well, yeah. Jennifer Rubin.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:24 AM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


Thanks all. I have now watched the SNL clips. Cold open was amusing but wow Melanaide was just savage. If I was him I'd be way more upset about that one.
posted by Jalliah at 8:29 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Heh. I think I see what got him so riled about SNL - it's not references his sexual creeping or his odd behavior, it's that they call him a big old loser.
posted by Artw at 8:31 AM on October 16, 2016 [9 favorites]


If I was him I'd be way more upset about that one.

Melania's just a woman - it's not important. [/channeling Trumpishness]
posted by Miko at 8:31 AM on October 16, 2016


Also, it does look like the Trump surrogates are boycotting AM Joy.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:31 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


This is Mark Salter's (former top aide to McCain) response to Senator Jeff Sessions saying the election is rigged:

@MarkSalter55
GOP senators should remove Sessions from Judiciary Cmte unless he retracts. He's a disgrace to the party and a threat to national security
posted by chris24 at 8:36 AM on October 16, 2016 [57 favorites]


There is a great piece on Slate by Katherine Bell: Hillary Clinton Has a Power That No Man Can Take Away. (apologies if repeat, I ctrl+f'd)

Met two American friends tonight who had sent in their overseas votes for Hilary already. One I remember laughing together with as we watched our kids play over the obv. silliness of the Trump's publicity stunt campaign, months ago...

(Like most of the world, we're all outside the stadium doing those - (I googled "What do you call being outside an american stadium in the carpark having a party") tailgate, hoping it'll be victory fireworks and not a nuclear cloud at the countdown, but this is also fascinating to me personally because I am disenfranchised as someone who has never lived in a country where I had the right to vote although I've been active in civil society, and I'm by choice planning to move somewhere that I will for the first time have that right and associated civil liberties that I have never really considered attainable. The technical side of the conversations has been absorbing, sausage factory and all.)
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 8:37 AM on October 16, 2016 [6 favorites]


And again, Trump is attacking Ryan more than Clinton:

@SopanDeb
To, New Delhi TV, Trump goes after GOP leadership again: "You look at some of their positions and I’m very much against the way they lead." [screenshot of full, more insulting transcript]
posted by chris24 at 8:39 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


threat to national security

Totally true. These folks freak out when protesters block a highway, but think it's ok to say elections are rigged?
posted by kiltedtaco at 8:41 AM on October 16, 2016 [27 favorites]


I totally forgot to tell you all I live in spitting distance of the local Republican committee office that sets up shop every 2 years. Even though this is a solidly solid blue district, I usually see a ton of activity in there.

Not so much this time. They have up their signs. A few desks, but nothing about the down ballot races and while the lights come on from time to time, I've never actually seen any one in there unlike years past. Guess that says something about the ground game.
posted by drewbage1847 at 8:48 AM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


So, now convincing people to vote for your opponent is "rigging" the election? Is that really where he's going with this?
posted by Sequence at 8:49 AM on October 16, 2016 [25 favorites]


...I live in spitting distance of the local Republican committee office...

How on earth are you not constantly spitting then?
posted by Cookiebastard at 8:50 AM on October 16, 2016 [30 favorites]


Boycotting AM Joy
Covering in fear of her awesomeness more like.
posted by spitbull at 8:52 AM on October 16, 2016 [13 favorites]


Trust me, every time I walk past the place to go to the gym I have to restrain myself from spitting on the ground and making the sign of the cross. I consider it very adult of me.
posted by drewbage1847 at 8:53 AM on October 16, 2016 [10 favorites]


Mike Pence on Meet The Press was just pushing the "media rigging election" narrative and Chuck Todd wasn't having it. It is a really bad strategy when talking to the media, after all.

What's extra interesting is that Pence was actually spinning there, and it worked. "Oh we're just talking about the media rigging the election." That is absolutely not what Trump has been communicating at the rallies.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 8:56 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Guys, the conspiracy goes really deep. Even Breitbart is in on the rigging.

@GravisMarketing
Breitbart Gravis Poll Clinton gains 5 points since the second debate in Colorado. 44-39 please Share [Exclusive–Breitbart/Gravis Poll: Clinton Opens Lead Over Trump 44-39 in Colorado, Gains 5 Points in a Week]
posted by chris24 at 8:57 AM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


It looks like I am most likely going to be in europe during the election. Probably Vienna. Luckily at a tech conference that should have its fare share of Americans to celebrate with hopefully or for us to claim asylum.
posted by mrzarquon at 8:58 AM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


So, wait wait wait, they've been talking about the "media" rigging the election all along? So the armed guys they are sending to intimidate people at polling stations, they are countering media rigging by doing what? Confiscating newspapers and portable televisions?
posted by Artw at 8:59 AM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]



Yeah, I bet it was the Melaniade video that really got under the Don's skin, though he can't admit it


I'd bet folding money he didn't watch that bit. He watched the cold open and then started incessant channel surfing again, looking for images of himself.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:03 AM on October 16, 2016 [20 favorites]


These comments are rigged! And the weather here today? Totally rigged. I think maybe my breakfast was rigged, too.

I think maybe his ultimate object is to make words completely devoid of meaning.
posted by kyrademon at 9:04 AM on October 16, 2016 [23 favorites]


That's a Russian psy-ops goal, so probably.
posted by Artw at 9:07 AM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


I am really looking forward to the Al Smith dinner. I can't even manage to imagine what Donald's attempt at a long, self-mocking humorous speech is going to look and sound like.
posted by The World Famous at 9:04 AM on October 16 [1 favorite −] Favorite added! [!]


Do you actually get to go??

I am so, so jealous.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:07 AM on October 16, 2016


(apologies if repeat, I ctrl+f'd)

You'll miss things this way, if people have chosen different text for their links. I recommend copying and pasting the link itself (the URL) into the metafilter search bar. This has the added benefit of telling you if the link was posted in a previous thread.
posted by galaxy rise at 9:07 AM on October 16, 2016 [10 favorites]


The Emmys? Rigged. Donald can't buy a break in this cruel, cruel world which has been so, so unfair to him.

@realDonaldTrump
The Emmys are all politics, that's why, despite nominations, The Apprentice never won--even though it should have many times over.
posted by chris24 at 9:07 AM on October 16, 2016 [7 favorites]


And this fucking man-baby is putting people's lives at risk.

@eliseviebeck
CNN and NBC have security guards protecting their reporters at Trump rallies
[http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/15/us/politics/trump-media-attacks.html]
posted by chris24 at 9:11 AM on October 16, 2016 [7 favorites]


What a big fucking baby. I bet he still stews over the time he got beaten by some kid in a potato sack race when he was six.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:13 AM on October 16, 2016 [17 favorites]


My son (13) has a friend his age who tries and fails to play D&D in a group. He is truly, absolutely mystified by the idea of cooperation — he just yells "I cast X" louder and louder, before any action begins. When his team finally insists that he has to stop and listen to their ideas, he yells "this game is unfair!"

That's what I think "rigged" means to Trump. Anything that keeps him from doing whatever he wants at any given instant is confounding and hence "rigged."
posted by argybarg at 9:15 AM on October 16, 2016 [101 favorites]


I respect and appreciate the views of those among us who are concerned about civil unrest, coup or other nightmares resulting from Trump's attack on our election. I hope I'm not coming across as unsupportive or dismissive below.

I do take comfort and find reassurance in the fact that Trump's lack of an effective ground game will limit his ability to generate durable and widespread unrest after the election. The huge organization built by the Clinton campaign and the related Democratic Party ground game gives us an edge in putting protestors in the streets should it come to that.

Also I take comfort from the fact that his most effective mercenaries like Conway are focused on making money. There is a lot of money to be made writing an insider tell all where you trash Trump. Much more than sticking by him while he throws a post election tantrum.
posted by humanfont at 9:17 AM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


WaPo: Donald Trump is failing at basically everything right now. This poll proves it.

- 57% think his apology was insincere
- 68% think he made unwanted sexual advances, just 14% think he didn't
- 57% think it's inappropriate for him to say he'd jail Clinton
- 62% think Clinton's criticisms of Bill's accusers are not a legitimate issue
- 67% think Bill's indiscretions are not a legitimate issue
posted by chris24 at 9:17 AM on October 16, 2016 [40 favorites]


(apologies if repeat, I ctrl+f'd)

You'll miss things this way, if people have chosen different text for their links. I recommend copying and pasting the link itself (the URL) into the metafilter search bar. This has the added benefit of telling you if the link was posted in a previous thread.
posted by galaxy rise at 12:07 PM on 10/16


[thread tip]
posted by tilde at 9:20 AM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


From that NYT article:
On Thursday evening, there were noticeably more Secret Service agents monitoring the news media’s pen, though the agency declined to comment about the protection.


Sounds like Obama tasked the USSS with protecting the media now.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:22 AM on October 16, 2016 [38 favorites]


I believe Giuliani just used the words "bimbo squad" to describe the women accusing Trump of assault.

Can we have an election this week?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:22 AM on October 16, 2016 [41 favorites]


Why wouldn't Conway et al. see plenty of money in it for themselves after the election? If Donald is building a right wing media project they probably all expect their own shows. He's not going to be broke (except in a moral sense) because he lost the election.
posted by spitbull at 9:23 AM on October 16, 2016


I love that Jake Tapper is going to kick Giuliani's ass again.

ETA: I may have spoken too soon.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:24 AM on October 16, 2016


Guiliani claims that people voted "8-10 times" when he ran for mayor, because people were "bused in from Camden, New Jersey."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:25 AM on October 16, 2016


He's not going to be broke (except in a moral sense) because he lost the election.

Challenge accepted.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:26 AM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


The massively Republican-leaning Omaha World-Herald endorsed Hillary Clinton this morning. Their last Democratic endorsement was in 1932.

Edit: I see now that maxsparber beat me to the punch by 12 hours or so. Sorry.
posted by ensign_ricky at 9:26 AM on October 16, 2016 [8 favorites]


"60 dead people voted in my election"

Jake Tapper just looks tired.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:27 AM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


Guiliani claims that people voted "8-10 times" when he ran for mayor, because people were "bused in from Camden, New Jersey."

Well, that explains why he lost so handily and we've never heard of him.
posted by Etrigan at 9:28 AM on October 16, 2016 [25 favorites]


Stuff Donald Trump Totally Could Have Won If It Wasn't All Rigged:

- Olympic 100 Metre Dash
- Nobel Prize in Chemistry
- Mr. Universe
- Oscar for Best
- Business Guy Of The Millennium
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:30 AM on October 16, 2016 [34 favorites]


To the question about whether Trump's speech crosses the line from protected to incitement (or another category not protected under the First Amendment) - you may be interested in the Washington State case Rickert v. Washington (2007) - this is a state case, so wouldn't have the kind of application a Supreme Court decision would, but it struck down a state law against political advertisements that, with actual malice, contained a false statement of material fact about another candidate (i.e., a law that prohibited political candidates from knowingly including a fairly important lie about another candidate in their ads). The state Supreme Court said, among other things:
The First Amendment has its fullest and most urgent application to speech uttered during a campaign for political office. Such political speech is at the core of our First Amendment freedoms....That a State possesses an independent right to determine truth and falsity in political debate is a proposition fundamentally at odds with the principles embodied in the First Amendment. Moreover, it naively assumes that the government is capable of correctly and consistently negotiating the thin line between fact and opinion in political speech. Yet, political speech is usually as much opinion as fact. As aptly summarized by the Supreme Court, "[E]very person must be his own watchman for truth, because the forefathers did not trust any government to separate the truth from the false for us." . . . There simply cannot be any legitimate, let alone compelling, interest in permitting government censors to vet and penalize political speech about issues or individual candidates.
The thing is, Donald's speech right now about the campaign is explictly political speech. He's a candidate for political office; the bar of badness his speech would have to clear to escape the First Amendment protected zone is (and should be) sky high.

Where it gets slippery is defamation - if his speech defames another person (say, Clinton or someone like Chuck Todd) - and defamation is not the same thing as lying. It differs by state, but typically you have to show some actual damage to the defamed person's reputation (with exceptions), as well as intent to lie on the part of the speaker. This is immensely tough to do when the person telling the lie has a poor record for truthfulness, may have a loony belief that he is telling the truth, and the person he's telling the lie about is a public figure - do we believe anything that comes out of Donald's mouth? Does Donald truly believe it? How can Clinton's reputation be harmed by a comment from Donald at this point in time, after right-wing media has been literally going around for decades saying she's murdered multiple people? Etc.

I can't think of any prior examples that would be on point to this situation - perhaps someone else knows of one? But I find it hard to believe Trump's current speech is not protected under the First Amendment, and as harmful as I consider his speech to be, I think that's a good thing in terms of free speech protection.
posted by sallybrown at 9:30 AM on October 16, 2016 [10 favorites]


Giuliani just attacked the entire electoral system, "because of the inner cities."

I fucking hate that the racists in NY are becoming the national mouthpieces of my city, and that they're attacking my country in the process. I am so so disgusted.

Ugh. I'm sorry, everyone else.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:31 AM on October 16, 2016 [59 favorites]


If, like me, you hadn't heard of Billy Bush before the Bus Bros tape, he apparently has been a little shit for a long time. I'm not surprised the tape leaked. He was bragging about it at Rio.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:33 AM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


Even Fox can smell blood in the water.

@ZekeJMiller
"Bret Baier asks Pence if he’s talked to his daughter about Trump’s “just look at her” defense"
posted by chris24 at 9:37 AM on October 16, 2016 [10 favorites]


Hard to understand how "This election is rigged!" is going to serve as any kind of inducement to people to come out and vote for you. If it's rigged, their vote is useless, nez pa?
posted by teirnon at 9:38 AM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


Re donation data from waaaaay up thread -- the FEC data isn't necessarily current or complete. It's not showing any of my donations this cycle and it's not showing my parents either. My parents are a unique case -- their town is small enough where when they get an email saying, "N-People from your town have already contributed" they have a pretty good idea of who those people actually are.
posted by nathan_teske at 9:39 AM on October 16, 2016


The People Who Pick the President: Meet the Electoral College: Here's a look at the cast of characters who will choose the next president.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:40 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


I fucking hate that the racists in NY are becoming the national mouthpieces of my city, and that they're attacking my country in the process. I am so so disgusted.

Ugh. I'm sorry, everyone else.


New York is still number 1 on my list of places to visit in the US. :D
posted by Jalliah at 9:40 AM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


Ouch.

@NoahCRothman
95 percent of voters in NBC/WSJ said they saw coverage of the 2005 Billy Bush video. 4th most recognized story in the history of that poll.
posted by chris24 at 9:43 AM on October 16, 2016 [19 favorites]


The Politico article about the Al Smith dinner has me salivating, and not over the menu. Is this an event that the press covers? This is, as the article states, another IED ready to go off in Trump's face.
posted by thebrokedown at 9:43 AM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


from the New Yorker 2016’s Manifest Misogyny
posted by theora55 at 9:44 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


> I just joined. I just wanted to let all of you know that these election threads have been saving my sanity. I've lurked for a few years (ever since Planet Money did a story on Metafilter), but these threads and the awesome work of the moderators made me want to contribute. So thank you everyone!

Welcome, obliquity of the ecliptic! If you can survive the election threads (and the election itself), you'll have proven your stamina and sanity and will be a valued member for years to come.
posted by languagehat at 9:45 AM on October 16, 2016 [21 favorites]


Re donation data from waaaaay up thread -- the FEC data isn't necessarily current or complete. It's not showing any of my donations this cycle and it's not showing my parents either.


Good point. My data didn't show up and get scraped for profit* until way after the specific election cycles.

*inside baseball summary: become part of an authority infrastructure online
posted by tilde at 9:46 AM on October 16, 2016



WaPo: Donald Trump is failing at basically everything right now. This poll proves it.

- 57% think his apology was insincere
- 68% think he made unwanted sexual advances, just 14% think he didn't
- 57% think it's inappropriate for him to say he'd jail Clinton
- 62% think Clinton's criticisms of Bill's accusers are not a legitimate issue
- 67% think Bill's indiscretions are not a legitimate issue


40+% of the electorate will vote for the asshole anyway.
posted by jammer at 9:47 AM on October 16, 2016 [10 favorites]


Here's the rigging elections/inner cities quote from Fuckface Giuliani:

@ZekeJMiller
More Rudy asked by @jaketapper whether Reps cheat in elections: "They don't control the inner cities the way Democrats do"
posted by chris24 at 9:47 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]




So a local Columbus, OH station got to interview Mike Pence. They told him about an 11 year old girl who said that Trump's words made her feel bad. Mike Pence seamlessly pivots to foreign policy.

That was some fucking artful dodging of a question that has no good answer.


Seamless? Artful? You're being sarcastic, right?

Re: NBC & CNN hiring security: it may be distasteful to speculate on things like this, but I really hope that's some for-real professional bodyguard team and not just a couple of extra dudes who are a little burlier than most people for show. At this point I really want the press to have more than a token visual deterrent against violence. If something happens at one of those rallies, it's not gonna be like the one dude at the bar who the bouncer can take care of easily to set an example for the rest of his buddies. It's gonna be a mob action.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:49 AM on October 16, 2016 [7 favorites]


When you're behind 30 days before an election in must win-states and among must-win demographics such as college-educated people, why would you want to spend precious time sucking up to events where you look silly? Especially when the demographic (South Asian) votes 77% against you and in a state you are bound to lose? Is sleeping in your own bed so important that you commit actual political malpractice?

Trump suspects he's going to lose -- hence the intensifying drumbeat of "rigged! rigged! rigged!" that has started in earnest over the last couple of weeks.

So his campaign now has a new purpose: (1) stroke his ego--though that's always been part of it, (2) further distill, refine, and radicalize his base of support, (3) establish himself as the trustworthy alternative to the corrupt liberal media cartel. After this shitshow is finally over, he will have positioned himself to be a new ringleader for the Alex Jones/Rush Limbaugh/Michael Savage/Ann Coulter crowd. He's building a bigger, better echo chamber. And believe me, it will be the most beautiful echo chamber...
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 9:51 AM on October 16, 2016 [10 favorites]


Chairman of the Human Right Foundation Garry Kasparov:

@Kasparov63
Saying that fair elections are rigged is as much a crime against democracy as saying that rigged elections are fair.
posted by chris24 at 9:52 AM on October 16, 2016 [119 favorites]




tiernon, I think he has accepted his defeat in the election already. The "election is rigged" talk seems to be him (a) preparing his excuse for losing, and (b) testing the water for an actual anti-democratic power grab/coup. Who knows if he will actually go down route (b), but I mean, he is a complete psycho who worships authoritarians. And he sure has a lot of police on his side (F.O.P., San Antonio, selected Sheriffs). He also has some crazy generals on his side. They're crazy. But they're still generals. And I'm willing to bet that a good chunk of the private citizens (patriots et al) who are stockpiling weapons and ammo have his back too. And his core supporters are rabid. So I'll bet he's doing the arithmetic (which he is probably bad at). Scary times.
posted by molecicco at 9:55 AM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


The Al Smith dinner is the night after the debate.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:56 AM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


Omg y o u guys, I've made it to the end of another thread. I swear, nanowrimo is going to be impossible this year if I keep reading the text equivalent of war and peace every couple of days.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:56 AM on October 16, 2016 [12 favorites]


40+% of the electorate will vote for the asshole anyway.

I'll take $10 on the under.
posted by rhizome at 9:56 AM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


That's what I think "rigged" means to Trump. Anything that keeps him from doing whatever he wants at any given instant is confounding and hence "rigged."

Well, if rigging in sailing is just prep (i.e. knowing and deploying sails in order to go), maybe he's just railing at everybody else's preparedness.
posted by mazola at 9:56 AM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


He also has some crazy generals on his side. They're crazy. But they're still generals.

They're retired. They have some level of influence, but they're not commanding troops.
posted by Etrigan at 9:58 AM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


They're retired. They have some level of influence, but they're not commanding troops.

Aren't current generals prohibited, or at least strongly discouraged, from making their political preferences known?
posted by hoyland at 10:01 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Mike Pence at 9 am: “we will absolutely accept the result of the election.”
Trump at 1 pm: The election is absolutely being rigged by the dishonest and distorted media pushing Crooked Hillary - but also at many polling places - SAD
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:04 AM on October 16, 2016 [15 favorites]


Steve Bannon's vision for the Trump Coalition after Election Day "Trump and Bannon have given up on trying to defeat Clinton. They seem more interested in creating a platform for a new ethno-nationalist politics that may bedevil the Republican Party—and the country—for a long time to come."
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:05 AM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


He also has some crazy generals on his side. They're crazy. But they're still generals.

Retired generals (and admirals). That's an important distinction. Active duty military are supposed to be non-political and silent on elections -- at least in any capacity where they might be seen as speaking for the military. An individual serviceperson can contribute money, perform activist stuff, etc., but cannot do so in uniform and cannot present him/herself as speaking for the military.

That makes the military as a group difficult to track and to poll. The polls that exist show support for Trump, yes, but those polls are completely unreliable as any meaningful gauge. Clinton-hate has long been entrenched in the military, but that's still wildly far from anyone making noises of mutiny.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:05 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


‘The Arrangements’: A Work of Fiction

By CHIMAMANDA NGOZI ADICHIE
posted by infini at 10:07 AM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


> The Santa Barbara News-Press is no longer a real newspaper, is it? I'm pretty sure thats the one that fired everybody when the new owner took over.

Yup, that's correct. Get your SB news from Noozhawk (where the reporters went)..
posted by languagehat at 10:12 AM on October 16, 2016


Can someone explain to me how falsely claiming an election is rigged when a foreign power is attempting to disrupt the elections is not literal, actual treason? As in 'giving aid and comfort' to our enemies treason?

Now I'm not a conspiracy theorist that things Trump is anything but an easily manipulated egomaniac, nor do I believe charges would be helpful in this political climate, but seriously.
posted by Zalzidrax at 10:15 AM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


The Washington Post has an absolutely amazing long form article about Derek Black, son of Don Black the founder of Stormfront.

It's probably too electiony to be a FPP on its own but it was a hell of a read.
posted by Talez at 10:16 AM on October 16, 2016 [62 favorites]


Can someone explain to me how falsely claiming an election is rigged when a foreign power is attempting to disrupt the elections is not literal, actual treason? As in 'giving aid and comfort' to our enemies treason?

Because treason is one of those things that is serious enough that we shouldn't try to link to people tenuously.
posted by Talez at 10:18 AM on October 16, 2016 [9 favorites]




Hypernormalisation: Adam Curtis plots a path from Syria to Trump, via Jane Fonda
With a new Adam Curtis doc and Black Mirror Season 3 this week I think January the 1st 2017 will be like that bit in Wargames.
Jesus H Christ! We're still here!
posted by fullerine at 10:18 AM on October 16, 2016


What will happen if Trump were elected?

First of all, whoever has the ability to break through his attention deficits, will tell him who to put in his cabinet. It will not make any sense, except to get that bit of business out of his face. Depending on who makes him feel the most secure, with a tinge of absolute power, will determine the face of The Executive Branch. After these random choices are made, depending entirely on a narcissistic roll of the dice, Trump will host dinners. The White House will be full of gangsters.

Trump will not be bothered with the running of the nation, or relations with the Senate or House. The loudest shouters might get a couple of minutes here and there. Trump will delegate everything, because he knows nothing.

It will take some time for the religious fundies to realize no one is home at the white house. The military and intelligence services will run everything else, in concert with whomever they feel will keep everything at status quo, until Trump exits. Our nation state will be on some crazy auto pilot scenario, which may work for us in only this way...People who rely on us for their absolute power, will find it impossible to even get a call through. Maybe their dependency on our arsenal will diminish, and they will find some other workaround.

I can't see any other way for it to run. Crazies like the land grab movement in the West will find out just how attached the American people are, to their public lands. People who thought he would bring about an authoritarian utopia, will look around to find they have to work much harder to get even the simplest services of government. They will find out they actually like effective government, for all their complaining.

Our allies will walk away for the time Trump is in office. Who would want to be associated with an irritable infant, and his arsenal? Trump will be isolated for the good of the nation. We will make a workaround, to keep things going until he is over.

I warn every community, school, institution, state, park, or service; you won't be getting your money. Set up your donors now.
posted by Oyéah at 10:19 AM on October 16, 2016 [7 favorites]


What will happen if Trump were elected?

There will be a "medical incident" shortly afterwards. The conspiracy theorists will go overboard, but no-one will be able to prove that it was anything except natural causes in a 70+ year old man not in the best of health.

Pence becomes POTUS.
posted by Wordshore at 10:23 AM on October 16, 2016 [12 favorites]


If it's anything like Brexit, January 9th will wake up to a terrified looking Trump and he'll be gone before inauguration. Pence will be sworn in.
posted by fullerine at 10:25 AM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


Is there an SCP entry for this election yet? Definitely feels like we're dealing with a Keter memetic hazard.
posted by ckape at 10:25 AM on October 16, 2016 [25 favorites]


Oyéah, Wordshore, and fullerine -- I think you're all being incredibly optimistic, frankly.
posted by kyrademon at 10:26 AM on October 16, 2016 [7 favorites]


@jbarro
Fuck it, I'm out: Why I finally left the GOP to become a Democrat.

"The most important thing we have learned this year is that, when the Republican Party was hijacked by a dangerous fascist who threatens to destroy the institutions that make America great and free, most Republicans up and down the organizational chart stood behind him and insisted he ought to be president.

Some did this because they are fools who do not understand why Trump is dangerous. Some did it because they were naïve enough to believe he could be controlled and manipulated into implementing a normal Republican agenda.

Of course, there were the minority of Republicans who did what was right and withheld their support from Trump: people like Ohio Gov. John Kasich, Nebraska Sen. Ben Sasse, and Hewlett-Packard CEO and megadonor Meg Whitman, the latter of whom called Trump "a threat to the survival of the republic."

I want to focus on a fourth group: Republican politicians who understand exactly how dangerous Donald Trump is, but who have chosen to support him anyway for reasons of strategy, careerism, or cowardice."
posted by chris24 at 10:26 AM on October 16, 2016 [88 favorites]


Trump at 1 pm: The election is absolutely being rigged by the dishonest and distorted media pushing Crooked Hillary

Come to think of it, if Trump pivots from blaming his eventual loss on voter fraud to blaming it on the media skewing people's perceptions, that sets him up nicely to start his own "unbiased" network, no?
posted by C'est la D.C. at 10:35 AM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


@RonBrownstein
Sense a pattern here? The vote 4 @realDonaldTrump in 4-way NBC/WSJ polls since 6/16: 38, 35, 34, 37,37,37. http://on.wsj.com/2dVhZX1 via @WSJ

@jonfavs Retweeted Ron Brownstein
This will be important in the post-election analysis.
-He was never popular.
-He was never magic.
-He never grew his primary base.
posted by chris24 at 10:38 AM on October 16, 2016 [26 favorites]


Can someone explain to me how falsely claiming an election is rigged when a foreign power is attempting to disrupt the elections is not literal, actual treason? As in 'giving aid and comfort' to our enemies treason?

This is on the "political differences imply mental illness" level of metaphor, and is extremely corrosive when it takes hold. It is essential to the logic of fascism to weed out differences in the power structure, and as those differences are excised the process of weeding out focuses on smaller and smaller differences until the only way to stay out of the guillotine or Gulag is to be identical to the despot (and even then...).

This is an illustration of two major aspects of fascism: it is within all of us; and that it's suicidal.

We see this in Trump's campaign as his constituency has been cheesed off in layers and his rhetoric escalates in harshness to provide solidarity and meaning to those "fortunate" enough to remain within Trump's demographic circle of approval.
posted by rhizome at 10:39 AM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


And more Republicans coming out against the rigging claim. This is John Weaver, a McCain top aide in 2000 and 2008.

@JWGOP
Our elections conducted by local citizens. There is no national oversight. There is no rigging. Trump is dangerous to say it is. #Unhinged
posted by chris24 at 10:40 AM on October 16, 2016 [20 favorites]


38% of the populace behind you is terrible if you are running for president, absolutely kick ass if you are starting a propaganda-based tv network.
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:41 AM on October 16, 2016 [26 favorites]


Some did this because they are fools who do not understand why Trump is dangerous. Some did it because they were naïve enough to believe he could be controlled and manipulated into implementing a normal Republican agenda.
[...]
I want to focus on a fourth group: Republican politicians who understand exactly how dangerous Donald Trump is, but who have chosen to support him anyway for reasons of strategy, careerism, or cowardice."


So, for all the reasons people choose political sides? That's some backflipping nonsense that is more easily explained as "everyone loves a winner, and he was the winner who was on our side." It was pure sportsteaming, own up to it.
posted by rhizome at 10:44 AM on October 16, 2016


But of course some are still saying dangerous things:

Gingrich: 20 Media Executives Are Launching A "Coup D'Etat" Against Millions Of Trump Voters

Beyond the headline statement, he also says:

RADDATZ: But you say it’s not at the precinct level, but Trump has also told people to monitor polling stations.

GINGRICH: They should. You look at Philadelphia, you look at St. Louis, you look at Chicago, I mean, again I’m old enough, I remember when Richard Nixon had the election stolen in 1960 and no serious historian doubts that Illinois and Texas were stolen. So to suggest that we have -- that you don’t have theft in Philadelphia is to deny reality.
posted by chris24 at 10:44 AM on October 16, 2016


38% of the populace behind you is terrible

That's just people who say they intend to vote. Voter turnout in 2012 was something like 58%, so maybe 20% of the pop?
posted by My Dad at 10:45 AM on October 16, 2016


So it turns out I'm going to be an election judge somewhere in Berkeley. What have I got myself in to?

Depends on where you are. For the most part, I expect lines of enthusiastic voters (probably early in the day) excited to vote for Hillary. You will also see people from the city council and mayoral races checking the street roster index to get out the vote, so make sure it's updated. (Arreguin's campaign was very pushy about that in 2008 and we were slammed with a lin around the block until 2pm. That was hard to recover from.) It's highly unlikely you will have to deal with Republican poll watchers since it would be a waste of their effort.

The biggest challenge is poll workers who don't understand the rules, and are generally slow with the roster and street index. Since it's a general election you don't have to worry about the confusion of different ballots.

Just remember "one vote, one ballot, one signature." "Always be closing" is another good thing to remember in terms of keeping things tidy and closing the polls in a timely fashion. The earlier you get to the drop off, the easier it is.

Also hopefully your precinct inspector and precinct coordinator are on top of things.

Feel free to MeMail me if you have questions. I've been a Berkeley poll worker since 2004 - clerk all the way to precinct coordinator. I'm really bummed to miss out on this election, but it's on my due date.
posted by kendrak at 10:48 AM on October 16, 2016 [27 favorites]


That's just people who say they intend to vote. Voter turnout in 2012 was something like 58%, so maybe 20% of the pop?

A very fair point. However, still an immensely lucrative TV market share. I start hearing the "this is a ploy to start an alt-right (i.e. conspiracy-theorist white nationalist) TV network" months ago, and whether that plan was premeditated or not, it seems like the likely path regardless. Because money, and personal branding.
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:48 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


>Mike Pence on Meet The Press was just pushing the "media rigging election"

This is particularly rich, given that Trump's success in this election--so far as he had any--was pretty much down to his successful hacking of the media and their bias towards flashy "newsmaking" events and controversial comments. One of Trump's supposed superpowers was his ability to leverage the faults of the media to bend it to his will and to his purposes.

I think he forgot that "exposé of the blowhard idiot" character arc is also one the media's favorite things. A vital part of that character arc is building the character to high point of celebrity and power--that's the part we have been experiencing for the past few years.

And right now we are in the media's very, very favorite part of it, the perfectly timed and completely damning exposé and subsequent downfall.
posted by flug at 10:49 AM on October 16, 2016 [14 favorites]


mcstayinskool: 38% of the populace behind you is terrible if you are running for president, absolutely kick ass if you are starting a propaganda-based tv network.

I don't know. After all of the stuff he's done this election cycle, I think he's going to prison if he doesn't win. He's too dangerous to leave on the outside, he's committed legitimate, prison-worthy crimes, and he creates more unrest being left on the outside than his arrest will generate.

I think what'll happen is that a lot of his supporters will turn on him for being weak enough to lose, the rest of the republican party will turn on him for grabbing the primary and then driving the election into the ground, and then he'll be arrested. Probably for a charity-related offense or tax crimes, but possibly for sex crimes (if they have enough evidence to win one). Other charges will pile on, he'll be denied bail as an obvious flight risk (or be allowed to flee to Russia where he'll be harmless) and he'll be shunted off to some white-collar prison. The conspiracy theorists that will be his sole remaining base will be enraged, but they already were enraged and can't really be reasoned out of it.
posted by Mitrovarr at 10:51 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Mike Pence on Meet The Press was just pushing the "media rigging election"

He's such a piece of shit.

@VaughnHillyard
Pence says on @MeetThePress "there is more & more evidence that implicates Russia" and says there should be "serious consequence" if so.

@evale72 Retweeted Vaughn Hillyard
Pence regularly praises WikiLeak hacks at events including last night
posted by chris24 at 10:53 AM on October 16, 2016 [9 favorites]


I'd love for a Trump in Exile situation. His children would then also face charges for adding and abetting a fugitive, Trump corporation as a legal entity in the US would be called into question, etc.

That may be more terrible for him than him serving time in a white collar prison in the US, but the thought of him being cuffed and locked up would probably drive him to flee.
posted by mrzarquon at 10:54 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


And no matter what Pence or anyone says about it being just the media rigging, the candidate is saying it's more than that just 50 minutes ago:

@realDonaldTrump
The election is absolutely being rigged by the dishonest and distorted media pushing Crooked Hillary - but also at many polling places - SAD
posted by chris24 at 10:55 AM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


I want to focus on a fourth group: Republican politicians who understand exactly how dangerous Donald Trump is, but who have chosen to support him anyway for reasons of strategy, careerism, or cowardice."

I think it's careerism strategy. Pence/Gingrich/Guiliani have no current political position and want a role in the cabinet/Supreme Court/insider track. Those who seem more confident in their current careers or alternative futures or have no stake in DC, seem more willing to speak out (Romney, Sasse, the republican women state leaders who resigned etc). As noted earlier, this need to keep all possibilities open may play into Ryan's and Christie's refusal to completely cut ties.
posted by beaning at 10:56 AM on October 16, 2016


Oh man, Guiliani's political career is so toast if Trump doesn't win. He's said so many horrible things... they will all be thrown into his face every time he runs for anything in the future. Even if he runs in a safe R district anyone could primary him with it.
posted by Mitrovarr at 11:00 AM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


Also possible: the sexual assault and fraud allegations erode his core businesses enough that a creditor cuts him off and he goes bankrupt.
posted by condour75 at 11:01 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


The more I hear Pence talk, the more he reminds me of the kid in my grade school class who loved to lie about anything and everything, for good reasons and for no reasons at all. He got a giant diamond for Christmas, he didn't cheat on the math test, he met Michael Jackson on vacation in Florida, his turkey sandwich for lunch was actually a ham sandwich, etc.

Pence doesn't just lie when he needs to, he lies gratuitously, like an insecure child. And he seems to really enjoy it.
posted by sallybrown at 11:04 AM on October 16, 2016 [36 favorites]


Oh man, Guiliani's political career is so toast if Trump doesn't win. He's said so many horrible things... they will all be thrown into his face every time he runs for anything in the future. Even if he runs in a safe R district anyone could primary him with it.

What? Have you seen a safe R primary in the past four years?
posted by Talez at 11:05 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think what'll happen is that a lot of his supporters will turn on him for being weak enough to lose

I think we're going to having millions of Trump truthers after this election, who think the election was stolen from Trump (and from them). There are millions of people in this country who think President Obama is not a legitimate President, and those people are Trump's base. They justify their contempt for American democracy because they already see our democracy as corrupt and going in the wrong direction. If the GOP holds congress this election, or gets it back in 2018, these people will continue to support a GOP that obstructs President Clinton and government in general.

Oh man, Guiliani's political career is so toast if Trump doesn't win.
Yea, but Guiliani could get a best selling book that appeals to the new Deplorable Party. A lot of Trump's most notable surrogates have books for sale (General Flynn, and Sheriff Clarke, for example). They don't need a future in politics if they can make $$$ from Trump supporters.
posted by airish at 11:06 AM on October 16, 2016 [9 favorites]


Giuliani's political career has been toast for a good half-decade already.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:07 AM on October 16, 2016 [25 favorites]


This is on the "political differences imply mental illness" level of metaphor, and is extremely corrosive when it takes hold. It is essential to the logic of fascism to weed out differences in the power structure, and as those differences are excised the process of weeding out focuses on smaller and smaller differences until the only way to stay out of the guillotine or Gulag is to be identical to the despot (and even then...).

I'm not claiming anyone's mentally ill. I am claiming that Trump and some of his supporters are making false claims whose direct effect is to make an attack against his country more likely to succeed. I don't think there's a lot of exaggeration in this statement. And it scares me.

I mean this whole election cycle... it's been crazy. I don't think I could list all the factual reasons why I don't believe Trump is a good candidate without sounding whackadoodle, even if I was telling people his policy positions faithfully and accurately and word for word - no added conspiracy theory juice required.

This is an illustration of two major aspects of fascism: it is within all of us; and that it's suicidal.

Oh I wholeheartedly agree. If I've come to any conclusion over this 'lock her up' bullshit, it's that politicians need to be treated with a really light touch by law enforcement because the risk of abuse and for the destruction of democracy is far too high. Even as much as I'll complain about politicians getting away with things, the alternative is much, much worse.
posted by Zalzidrax at 11:08 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Can you someone who saw Giuliani on Tapper explain if he admitted to voter intimidation? He related a story about having the president of the Yankees and firefighters outside...somewhere, "counting the buses," and "some of those buses voted 10 times."

ETA: whoops, forgot the part where he said he had people trying to stop the "buses."
posted by schadenfrau at 11:08 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


A very fair point. However, still an immensely lucrative TV market share. I start hearing the "this is a ploy to start an alt-right (i.e. conspiracy-theorist white nationalist) TV network"

Yes, if the 1960's was the era of Civil Rights, then the 2010's is going to be remembered as the era of shit-posting.
posted by My Dad at 11:09 AM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


Gingrich doesn't have a political career, he's a grifter in the wingnut welfare economy. Selling his next book and cash for gold ads is all he's after.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:10 AM on October 16, 2016 [13 favorites]


Gingrich doesn't have a political career, he's a grifter in the wingnut welfare economy. Selling his next book and cash for gold ads is all he's after.


All of which is based on his claim of insider track info...but another 8 yrs of democrats and he won't have this. He's already enough of an outsider that he wound up with Trump rather than a more legitimate candidate. Far fall from his own days as speaker of the house, leader of the right wing, and a presidential candidate.
posted by beaning at 11:15 AM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


Giuliani's political career has been toast for a good half-decade already.

Yeah, pretty much the entire senior Trump surrogate team is Night of the Living Dead:

Gingrich: Resigned in disgrace, failed 2012 run, no future.

Giuliani: Dropped out of 2000 Senate run, crashed and burned 2008 presidential run, no future.

Pence: About to lose gubernatorial election bid, no future.

Christie: About to get implicated in Bridgegate, no chance of reelection, no future.
posted by chris24 at 11:16 AM on October 16, 2016 [41 favorites]


That reminds me that Rudy Guiliani received a CBE from the Queen in 2002.

Yeah.
posted by selfnoise at 11:18 AM on October 16, 2016


no future.

So punk rock.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:18 AM on October 16, 2016 [7 favorites]


I have been reading MetaFilter for a few years but just joined today to echo what pupperduck said above: Thank you for being a community of support, intelligent discourse, humor, and rationality.

You have saved my sanity and made me feel less alone many times (especially over the last ten days) even though you didn't know I was here.
posted by a fish out of water at 11:22 AM on October 16, 2016 [131 favorites]


Welcome a fish out of water. May Metafilter be your election pond.
posted by chris24 at 11:23 AM on October 16, 2016 [29 favorites]


He's too dangerous to leave on the outside, he's committed legitimate, prison-worthy crimes
Sigh. This was true of him long before he declared his candidacy. But with the help he's getting from Putin's hackers, charging his opposition of 'fixing' the election is pure Trump's Mirror in action. Fortunately, all the hackers AND '2nd Amendment Champions' can't overcome a 5% deficit in real votes, let alone the inevitable 10%+ deficit when people actually THINK about what they're voting for.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:24 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


For those speculating about what a President Trump would be like, the New Yorker ran an excellent piece about it recently, which isn't satire or wild reaches but extrapolation and grounded speculation based on his history and some informants. If anything, it's actually a worse picture than I had imagined. President Trump's First Term.
posted by Miko at 11:26 AM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


This is funny to watch.

@davidmackau
trump surrogate: it's a she said/he said situation
@jaketapper: it's a she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said situation [video]
posted by chris24 at 11:28 AM on October 16, 2016 [24 favorites]


That WAPO story Talez linked about Derek Black is an amazing read. Go there, it will make you trust in humanity and hope
posted by mumimor at 11:29 AM on October 16, 2016 [26 favorites]


I'm not claiming anyone's mentally ill. I am claiming that Trump and some of his supporters are making false claims whose direct effect is to make an attack against his country more likely to succeed.

I know, that was just an analogous metaphor (metaphorical analogy?) to "saying stuff means treason." I hope the idea isn't that the US would be successfully invaded due to Trump's words. Otherwise, the rhetorical slide here is similar to W's operative logic that "stuff that makes us look bad" should be suppressed because "national security."
posted by rhizome at 11:30 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


I do take comfort and find reassurance in the fact that Trump's lack of an effective ground game will limit his ability to generate durable and widespread unrest after the election.

I think that's super-dangerous, actually. When the thing the angry people want doesn't exist, it's going to leave a weird power vacuum that might get filled locally.
posted by ctmf at 11:32 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


GINGRICH: They should. You look at Philadelphia, you look at St. Louis, you look at Chicago, I mean, again I’m old enough, I remember when Richard Nixon had the election stolen in 1960 and no serious historian doubts that Illinois and Texas were stolen. So to suggest that we have -- that you don’t have theft in Philadelphia is to deny reality.

This is the same guy who popped up in Ava DuVernay's "13th" to decry the racist ramifications of crack vs. cocaine sentencing. I can't tell any more with this guy whether it's malice or ignorance.

He's what a dumb person thinks a smart person is.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 11:33 AM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]




Giuliani's political career has been toast for a good half-decade already.

It's been a lot longer than that. The last race he didn't drop out of was the 1997 NY mayoral race. He's a fucking joke.
posted by dersins at 11:39 AM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


They seem more interested in creating a platform for a new ethno-nationalist politics that may bedevil the Republican Party—and the country—for a long time to come

There's been speculation for awhile that Trump's plan after the election is to start his own media empire. Frankly, I'm starting to believe that his plan is to start his own National Front-style party.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 11:43 AM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


He has no plan.
posted by argybarg at 11:44 AM on October 16, 2016 [28 favorites]


> "Pence doesn't just lie when he needs to, he lies gratuitously, like an insecure child. And he seems to really enjoy it."

Not surprising, given that he got his start in right-wing talk radio.
posted by kyrademon at 11:44 AM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


He's what a dumb person thinks a smart person is.

For Halloween, I think I'll get a Trump mask, a red and green sweater and a claw glove and go as Freddy Dunning-Kruger.
posted by delfin at 11:47 AM on October 16, 2016 [92 favorites]


There;s no reason a far-right media group has to be distinguishable from a political party - in fact, I'd think it's an inevitable development. There are interesting questions about financial viability, but I can see various models that work - viewers will be suggestible.
posted by Devonian at 11:49 AM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


I don't thing I've got the reach to make it happen myself but a #BecauseItsRigged hashtag would be pretty fun if anyone wants to give it a shot.
posted by parudox at 11:50 AM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


For Halloween, I think I'll get a Trump mask, a red and green sweater and a claw glove and go as Freddy Dunning-Kruger.

See if you can find a necktie long enough to reach your knees. Maybe splice two together?
posted by aubilenon at 11:54 AM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


I don't thing I've got the reach to make it happen myself but a #BecauseItsRigged hashtag would be pretty fun if anyone wants to give it a shot.

Cubs winning the world series #BecauseItsRigged
posted by Talez at 11:55 AM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


He has no plan.

Literally speaking? Of course not. But as an amorphous thought floating through the cheeto-colored play-doh where his frontal cortex should be? Standing in front of howling crowds of thousands who are one step from sieg heil'ing when he walks on has been the greatest, most addictive, gold-plated narcissistic supply he's ever had. He's not going to want to go back to merely bloviating in front of a camera crew now. As for his core supporters -- well, they're never going to be satisfied functioning as the GOP's base ever again, which is why the GOP is in the middle of splintering.

Trump has found his greatest adulation as a white nationalist authoritarian, and there are evidently millions of Americans in the market for for what he's selling. Supply and demand.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 11:58 AM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


Amazing tweetstorm by conservative Tom Nichols:

@RadioFreeTom
Here's why Trumpers (and folks like Hugh Hewitt) should stop asking #NeverTrump guys like me about policy or SCOTUS. /1

Because this election is no longer about policy. I don't care what Hillary's views are on abortion or taxes. (I do, but not right now). /2

I especially don't care about Trump's view on anything, because he doesn't have any. He has no policies. No plans. Just Trump. /3

Instead, the election is now between two groups: those supporting a direct attack on our system of government, and everyone else. /4

This is no longer conservatives vs liberals, or Dems vs GOP. This an ignorant mob trying to destroy the Constitution vs the rest of us. /5

At this point, Trump's platform is a farrago of Russian-inspired demands to destroy our system, in order to save his delicate ego. /6

Trump's advisors, a clutch of opportunists and kooks, are pushing mad conspiracies. They are thus at odds with all other Americans. /7

In effect, Trump has removed politics from this election. It's now about where we all stand on protecting our system of government. /8

I'm #NeverTrump because I believe in our system, our elections, and our democratic culture, including the peaceful transfer of power. /9

If you think this is still abt SCOTUS or abortion or anything but your right to vote without threats or foreign influence, you're wrong. /10

Take your arguments about right vs left somewhere else. In my view, this is now an election solely about preserving our democracy. /11x
posted by chris24 at 11:58 AM on October 16, 2016 [258 favorites]


Yeah, pretty much the entire senior Trump surrogate team is Night of the Living Dead:

And imagine what his cabinet and his other 4000 appointees will be like? Those serve at his leisure. Very likely he won't pick qualified candidates who return to the fold and he'll hire/fire at will.

Not just that other countries won't respect him, he won't give them a stable enough policy staff to work with.
posted by beaning at 12:01 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


Small compared to everything else, but I think people in career federal service positions should be terrified of a Trump administration. There are a lot of SES spots that are, and have to be relatively immune to political pressure. Do you really think Trump can live with independent oversight organizations without retaliating?
posted by ctmf at 12:08 PM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


And imagine what his cabinet and his other 4000 appointees will be like? Those serve at his leisure. Very likely he won't pick qualified candidates who return to the fold and he'll hire/fire at will.

There will also be a massive brain drain from the various agencies by career bureaucrats who don't want to participate in things like rigged antitrust charges against Bezos.
posted by sallybrown at 12:08 PM on October 16, 2016 [8 favorites]


Trump has found his greatest adulation as a white nationalist authoritarian, and there are evidently millions of Americans in the market for for what he's selling.

True, but the event (running for president) and infrastructure (party system, debates) were already provided. Starting a party and movement would take a level of invention and follow-through that he has never shown. Remember his business is selling the right to use his name. If there were an existing profitable nationalist "movement" (Breitbart being the closest thing) he'd license his name to that, perhaps. But then he'd drive it into the ground and demand profit from the ruins.

I can see a cable channel, maybe, if someone does the work for him. But his attention will wander. Only the prescribed sequqence of election events, and the narcissistic rage it has induced, has kept him from completely losing his attention to this escapade.
posted by argybarg at 12:09 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


You know what else? Trump is soon going to learn how stupid it was to run for President. He had everything,( maybe nearing bankruptcy,) but he had everything. He has really screwed up. He could have just folded out the TV career, let his kids take over the businesses, and then he could have enjoyed what is left of his life. However, he is a greedy narcissist, so nothing is ever enough. I resent that we (the United States,) are become a snack item for an insatiable ego. Bummer. I also resent that we are a laughingstock of strangeness for losing the dividing line between reality, and TV. Our fine country doesn't deserve it.
posted by Oyéah at 12:14 PM on October 16, 2016 [8 favorites]


Mod note: Folks, please save the hashtags for Twitter. Thanks.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 12:15 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


Arizona Republic: How do we respond to threats after our endorsement? This is how
posted by porn in the woods at 12:17 PM on October 16, 2016 [85 favorites]


Pence was on Meet The Press today, where he was asked if he and Trump would accept the election's result if they lost. "We will absolutely accept the results of the election," he replied. Two hours later I heard this statement reported in the BBC radio news headlines.

In any other US election, the statement that one of America's major two political parties intended to respect the people's verdict would never have been in doubt - let alone considered worth a headline. It's a measure of how poisonous Trump's whole campaign has been that such matters can no longer be taken for granted.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:17 PM on October 16, 2016 [9 favorites]


In a similar vein as #BecauseItsRigged, I thought about starting #ClintonConspiracies (or similar), for sharing tales of ludicrous, over-the-top, comic-book-villain nefariousness attributed to Hillary. Stuff like, "Hillary created ebola from fluoridated water and the blood of white children in a clandestine ACORN-funded lab", or "Hillary once had the entire staff of a restaurant murdered because her arugula was slightly limp".

Then I realized that 40% of the population would believe them, so I didn't.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 12:17 PM on October 16, 2016 [15 favorites]


And this fucker trying to destroy democracy used to be 3rd in line for the presidency.

@newtgingrich
Washington Post bias so total they have "after trump"as cover of opinion section.why wait for American people when you plan to rig election
posted by chris24 at 12:18 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Small compared to everything else, but I think people in career federal service positions should be terrified of a Trump administration.

I suspect without the Hatch Act and the general cultural prohibition inside the government against political talk by career agency employees, you'd be hearing a lot more about this. Or maybe no one outside government cares that much, I don't know - look at how much the Republican party demonizes federal government employees, with little pushback. (See also: the people who frequently say things like "DC should be burned to the ground" and act like no one lives in DC other than crooked Congresspeople.)

One of the things Trump praised Modi for last night was his firing of government bureaucrats.
posted by sallybrown at 12:21 PM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


Starting a party and movement would take a level of invention and follow-through that he has never shown.

Who says Trump is going to be the one making the movement? Who even says that it's Trump making the movement now? This is all Steve Bannon, sucking the last remaining life force out of Fox News and the Republican Party and using it to build his own media empire of white nationalist conspiracy theories, where his audience will be free to live in a world completely disjoint from the real one. Trump is just the figurehead, the focus of their collective effervescence.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 12:23 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


Arizona Republic: How do we respond to threats after our endorsement? This is how
To the anonymous caller who invoked the name of Don Bolles — he’s the Republic reporter who was assassinated by a car bomb 40 years ago — and threatened that more of our reporters would be blown up because of the endorsement, I give you Kimberly. She is the young woman who answered the phone when you called. She sat in my office and calmly told three Phoenix police detectives what you had said. She told them that later, she walked to church and prayed for you. Prayed for patience, for forgiveness. Kimberly knows free speech requires compassion.
It should not be a courageous act in 2016 for a newspaper to endorse a Presidential candidate, but it is.
posted by zachlipton at 12:24 PM on October 16, 2016 [123 favorites]


Chris24: Amazing tweetstorm by conservative Tom Nichols:

That needs a Storify summary. And coverage in the press.
posted by Surely This at 12:25 PM on October 16, 2016 [11 favorites]


If you want to reminisce about a time when the Republic wasn't in mortal danger feel free to check out the industrial era US theme from Civ VI.
posted by Talez at 12:25 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


@VaughnHillyard
Pence tonight: “Thanks to some diligent efforts by 3rd party groups & thanks to lots of WikiLeaks, we’ve been finding out more & more.”

@mattyglesias Retweeted Vaughn Hillyard
Mike Pence praises the "diligence" of Russian intelligence services...
posted by chris24 at 12:25 PM on October 16, 2016 [11 favorites]


It's interesting to see that even some conservatives are realizing that we are essentially locked in a fight of Democracy vs Authoritarian Fascism and that despite disagreeing with Democrats over virtually every policy decision the reality is that Liberals and Conservatives both have a vested interest in maintaining a functioning Democracy.

It's no doubt terrifying to some Republicans that the only person capable of saving the Republican Party from the virus that has infected it is Hillary Clinton. Yes that virus predates Trump and has been a long time in coming but it's absolutely essential for the continued existence of the Republican Party that Trump fails this November.
posted by vuron at 12:28 PM on October 16, 2016 [16 favorites]


I'm going to hope Trump's dissolution prevails.
posted by argybarg at 12:28 PM on October 16, 2016


In my view, this is now an election solely about preserving our democracy. /11x

I've been watching this emerge from inside our great state of Texas since the early 90's. (Alex Jones, libertarianism, Texas patriot radio, the rise of Ron Paul, etc)

This fomenting rebellion is not new, and is apparently, now getting a unified national platform.

This element of our society is here to stay. Eventually they will have to be negotiated with and co-opted back into the political fold. A splinter like this cannot be kicked to side and ignored, and as much as I fucking hate to admit, they, in a democracy, deserve to be heard in some capacity. I want to write it off and shame them out of the public sphere, but I believe a generational approach to listening to and solving their core grievances is the better course, because what they are mad about isn't THAT far off the map, it's just how they tweak off to xenophobia, racism and revolution feels almost impossible to engage with...I believe those core grievances are something which can be fixed, which is basically they see their quality of life declining and that's a fact. It is declining. I don't know how to engage with their anger and vitriol. But I do know if they go with armed insurrection after the election they will all be mowed to pieces by the national guard and for as much as they piss me off, I don't want them dead in that way.

Iono. I still believe in compassion.
posted by Annika Cicada at 12:30 PM on October 16, 2016 [14 favorites]


That Arizona Republic piece is powerful and worth reading in full.
posted by Lexica at 12:35 PM on October 16, 2016 [22 favorites]


Yeah, Trump's a pawn at this point. He's being played by Bannon, Ailes, and the rest of the alpha-deplorables. They're evil, but they're smart enough to know that Trump will never have the discipline that would be needed to stage the fascist coup they so obviously desire. They'll stand by Trump for exactly as long as he's useful.

Right now, Trump is very useful to them, because he's riling up a shit-ton of racist resentment, conspiracism, and insurrectionist sentiment in the American public. He's cultivating a vast appetite for harder-than-hard-right ideology that was previously beyond the pale. They'll capitalize on it after the election – through far-right media enterprises, by launching a new party, or both.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 12:36 PM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


For all of his many flaws, Paul Ryan at least grasps the concept that nothing short of a complete federal government shutdown will satisfy Trumpets.

Something about winning Congressional budget battles handily, then being accused of treason and Islamic conversion _just because he negotiated with Dems at all_ will do that.
posted by delfin at 12:37 PM on October 16, 2016


Paraphrasing:

"How is Trump going to dismantle ISIS, deal with foreign currency manipulation, cyber attacks, etc when he's crumbling over a portrayal by Alec Baldwin?".
posted by Talez at 12:40 PM on October 16, 2016 [50 favorites]


Charlotte Observer: Republican HQ in Orange County (North Carolina) firebombed

Police said the words, “Nazi Republicans get out of town or else” were spray painted on the side of an adjacent building.
posted by porn in the woods at 12:40 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Donald Trump at Risk of Losing Arizona Despite State Party Support

"I think he's going to lose Arizona," said Matthew Benson, a Republican state operative and former senior aide to Gov. Jan Brewer. "Barring something unforeseen, Trump is going to lose Arizona, and you're still not seeing the type of activity you'd expect to see if he expects to save it."
posted by chris24 at 12:40 PM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


Giuliani isn't running for anything ever again. His last hole of obtaining a powerful position is to be appointed by a president Trump. Same is true of Gingrich and Christie, all either too old or damaged or both. Pence had no path forward either.

These are desperate dead enders.
posted by spitbull at 12:43 PM on October 16, 2016 [8 favorites]


It's no doubt terrifying to some Republicans that the only person capable of saving the Republican Party from the virus that has infected it is Hillary Clinton.
I have gorged on the rich irony of this. It will be interesting to see if HRC withdraws the offer to separate Trump from Ryan and friends when she is actually president. Her surrogates have already yoked them all together, but I haven't yet seen any indication that she herself has changed her mind about that.

I just want a working Republican party. The autopsy Party sounded like an almost reasonable group of people. In one of HRC's leaked speeches she spoke admiringly of Newt Gingrich's trips to the Oval Office and lamented that his party excoriated him for these negotiating sessions. Reasonable Republicans might see that as an invitation. I hope they do, but I am not holding my breath.
posted by xyzzy at 12:44 PM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


Talez, who/what are you paraphrasing?
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:44 PM on October 16, 2016


40+% of the electorate will vote for the asshole anyway.

I'll take $10 on the under.


I'll cover that bet. I win if 40% or more of the popular vote goes to Trump, 39.999% or less and you win. $10 to whatever charity we agree on. Maybe the SPLC? I feel like this is more in my interest, since even if I need to be more depressed that something good wil come out of it.
posted by phearlez at 12:46 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


That Arizona Republic piece is powerful and worth reading in full.

It actually kind of made me afraid for the women she name-checked.

I hate that I've turned into a big fraidy-cat cynic. :(
posted by mudpuppie at 12:48 PM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


Talez, who/what are you paraphrasing?

A comment I saw someone make on Facebook that wasn't quite as coherent.
posted by Talez at 12:49 PM on October 16, 2016


Charlotte Observer: Republican HQ in Orange County (North Carolina) firebombed

And here I just was thinking about how comparably reasonable the far left can seem sometimes (not that we know who did this or where they fall on the political spectrum). Damn.
posted by zachlipton at 12:49 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump has found his greatest adulation as a white nationalist authoritarian, and there are evidently millions of Americans in the market for for what he's selling. Supply and demand.

I think he'll keep right on holding rallies after the election. Just make it into an indefinite tour. He enjoys it, his supporters enjoy it, and he could probably charge for seats (and make a killing on concessions).
posted by EarBucket at 12:49 PM on October 16, 2016 [11 favorites]


Reasonable Republicans might see that as an invitation. I hope they do, but I am not holding my breath.

This is what Senator Sasse said to WORLD Magazine recently, and I really hope he's being sincere:
People of goodwill are going to argue about policy. That is a good and healthy thing. We, as Christians, have a responsibility to do it in a way that doesn’t violate the Ninth Commandment. We don’t want to bear false witness against our neighbor, so we should assume our neighbor means well and try to characterize their position accurately, not beat a straw man. As it turns out, really believing in the dignity of your neighbor and loving your neighbor means that you want to try to refine and shape their best argument. Sometimes I’m going to be converted. There’s going to be a policy issue where I thought I knew the answer and somebody else has a better argument. I should be humble enough to actually be persuadable. If I’m going to try to persuade them, I want to do it by not misrepresenting their view. Some debates are genuine, where you’re actually open to wrestle with another idea. Other debates are faux, where all you’re really trying to do is beat someone. It turns out the latter is not only unpersuasive and ineffective—it’s really boring. It’s also dishonest.
posted by sallybrown at 12:51 PM on October 16, 2016 [51 favorites]


Well, I just saw my first Johnson/Weld ad on TV. I'm sure I shouldn't read anything into the fact that it was during the midnight airing of Championship Wrestling From Hollywood.
posted by Etrigan at 12:51 PM on October 16, 2016 [7 favorites]


After this election I hope to have the entire thing surgically excised from my brain. No memories of frothing Giuliani, no endless pictures of Ivanka grinding on her dad, no lock-her-up chants, no deportation forces and border walls.

People will be like, "Man, that was some election!" and I'll be like "What's an election?"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:54 PM on October 16, 2016 [35 favorites]


Damn, that Arizona Republic piece is something. I'm sure the threat quoted in the opening is likely the most printable of them too. :/
posted by fragmede at 12:55 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm still hoping I'm going to wake up at some point and this will all have been some hallucinogenic-induced dream.
posted by sallybrown at 12:55 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


> And here I just was thinking about how comparably reasonable the far left can seem sometimes (not that we know who did this or where they fall on the political spectrum). Damn.

In all fairness, and as you hint at, the way that the Trump campaign has turned on the GOP as a whole, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that this was done by a Trumpa-lumpa.
posted by Nice Guy Mike at 12:56 PM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


I hope Sen. Sasse is sincere too, but he's the guy who ran on "[i]f [Obamacare] lives, America as we know it will die," so I'm not optimistic.
posted by zachlipton at 12:56 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


I just realized that, for all the hue and cry about Clinton's e-mail server, I don't remember ever hearing the Republicans say what the correct answer to that problem would have been. What is the official party line on this? (Please tell me there's an official party line on this.)
posted by Spathe Cadet at 12:57 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm not sure but I think "praise Modi" is not something that should ever be said in relation to the actions of a candidate for POTUS. Unless there's a "not".

What about writing up a biography of him for Time magazine?
posted by bardophile at 1:00 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


An official party line would be alienating to Powell.
Not just Powell. The Republicans ran a private email server used by tons of people for official government business and was scrubbed of millions of emails at the end of the Bush administration.
posted by xyzzy at 1:01 PM on October 16, 2016 [30 favorites]


I think we need a bit of relief, so consider this bit of retrofuturism, via Dan Piraro of Bizarro)
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:02 PM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


I'm still hoping I'm going to wake up at some point and this will all have been some hallucinogenic-induced dream.

Now that you mention it, the past year has borne a striking resemblance to certain datura / jimson weed trip reports that I've read.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 1:04 PM on October 16, 2016


>the past year has borne a striking resemblance to certain datura / jimson weed trip reports that I've read.

Are we saying that Trump is a Machine Elf?
posted by Sing Or Swim at 1:05 PM on October 16, 2016 [6 favorites]


Sasse has been planning his 2020 campaign since this summer.
posted by humanfont at 1:05 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


This is just a hippy fantasy of mine, but in it, a castigated Trump isn't even able to lead the daily two minute hate because people are no longer angry and horrible at each other.
posted by fragmede at 1:06 PM on October 16, 2016


re: firebombing

hey remember that time an Obama supporter carved a 'B' into some lady's face
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:06 PM on October 16, 2016 [33 favorites]




Hard to understand how "This election is rigged!" is going to serve as any kind of inducement to people to come out and vote for you.

The model from countries with fragile democracy is for a party leader to urge supporters to boycott the election "because it's rigged" which allows them to reject the result as illegitimate. That tends to happen more in parliamentary systems, where there's more control over who's on the ballot, but it would be the Samson option for Trump, and hearing that kind of language three weeks from actual voting suggests that it'll only escalate further.
posted by holgate at 1:07 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


Are we saying that Trump is a Machine Elf?

You're thinking of DMT. Ben Carson would be the DMT candidate.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 1:09 PM on October 16, 2016 [7 favorites]


Making Trump, what, the PCP candidate?
posted by fragmede at 1:10 PM on October 16, 2016


Seriously? Nobody's ever asked anyone in the Republican Party where the Secretary of State is supposed to store her e-mails? Have I died and gone to a version of hell without journalism?
posted by Spathe Cadet at 1:13 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


I thought the answer to emails was "carry two blackberries," was it not? One for .gov, one for everything else.
posted by instamatic at 1:15 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'm so sick of the 'inner cities' dogwhistle. I'd love to see a reporter pin down one of the Trumpettes and ask them, specifically, which neighborhoods in which cities they were talking about. Give three examples.

Let's get specific. Don't let them keep this boogeyman to scare the people with. Which neighborhoods are corrupting America? What exactly are they afraid of?

I have a feeling no-one will be surprised, but it'd be good to get it out in the open.
posted by MrVisible at 1:16 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


Oh man, I'm an idiot. I totally was confusing Modi the guy from India with some despot.

Modi isn't much better.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:17 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


Apologies to everyone including Modi for that.

No, you were right in your initial assessment. Modi is a fascist who permitted and possibly egged on a communal massacre when he was chief minister of Gujarat.
posted by bardophile at 1:18 PM on October 16, 2016 [13 favorites]




Instamatic is correct.
posted by xyzzy at 1:22 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


The reason there is no Republican-approved thing Clinton should have done with her emails is that there's always a Clinton scandal no matter what she does. There is literally nothing Clinton could have done that wouldn't be met with outrage. If she used two devices, one for personal and one for government business, it would be people screaming about some email that was a bit of both and was sent from the wrong device, or how come she is hiding her personal emails, or how secure were the Blackberries, etc... If the emails were entirely off the table, it would be more Benghazi, or more Foundation, or they'd come up with something else entirely.

You're assuming there are particular behaviors Clinton could adopt that would make the scandal machine stop. Short of being driven out of public life entirely, it doesn't work that way.
posted by zachlipton at 1:24 PM on October 16, 2016 [99 favorites]


he's citing Modi's purge of "bureaucrats" as a model now.

I'm sure that's not the only of Modi's purges he admires.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:24 PM on October 16, 2016 [8 favorites]


The hicks better leave Philly voters alone. *cracks knuckles*
posted by angrycat at 1:25 PM on October 16, 2016 [8 favorites]


Nobody's ever asked anyone in the Republican Party where the Secretary of State is supposed to store her e-mails?

Somewhere they could snoop on them of course.

Not 1 person in 1,000 remembers that incident, Republicans are that good following one outrage with a greater affront.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 1:29 PM on October 16, 2016 [8 favorites]


None of my Indian friends at work speak favorably of Modi. From what they say, he sounds like a Franco-style fascist, i.e., he's closely tied to his country's dominant religion.
posted by kingless at 1:31 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm sure I shouldn't read anything into the fact that it was during the midnight airing of Championship Wrestling From Hollywood.

Oh man I just got really sad at the thought of Jervis Cottonbelly voting for someone besides Hillary.
posted by sporkwort at 1:33 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


You're assuming there are particular behaviors Clinton could adopt that would make the scandal machine stop.

No, I was just assuming that if they were so mad about it that they mention it every five minutes, they had identified a correct answer. I didn't remember ever hearing what that answer was, and couldn't find it on my own, so I asked.

I was emphatically NOT assuming that the Republican solution would work as an actual solution, or that it would not be just as wrong if it had been the route Clinton had actually taken. I mean, come on; I know how Republicans work, especially when it comes to the Clintons. I've been here. You've seen me being here. Please don't tell me what I'm assuming.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 1:36 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh man I just got really sad at the thought of Jervis Cottonbelly voting for someone besides Hillary.

Jervis Cottonbelly doesn't want to offend anyone he doesn't vote for, so he just volunteers to staff the PTA snack sale outside the school.
posted by Etrigan at 1:40 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


They don't have an answer to the emails, or ACA, or climate change. They sometimes say they do, but produce nothing. That's what made it so easy for Trump. He waltzed right in because when someone says "reality is irrelevant" then the guy who's best at selling a fantasy wins.
posted by emjaybee at 1:44 PM on October 16, 2016 [6 favorites]




Some pro-lifers giving up on Trump as their candidate? This flabbergasted me: I'm Pro-Life and I Don't Care About the Supreme Court.
posted by emjaybee at 1:46 PM on October 16, 2016 [33 favorites]


Sounds like Paul Ryan has joined "Crooked & the Gang" - The Democrats have a corrupt political machine pushing crooked Hillary Clinton. We have Paul Ryan, always fighting the Republican nominee! (link is to Trump's twitter)
posted by sallybrown at 1:52 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


The firebombing may well be from an alt-righter punishing "traitors," or a backwards carving of a B, but there is nothing I can learn about the motives of the perpetrators that could make me feel any better about it.
posted by Countess Elena at 1:53 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


"Crooked & the Gang" was my fave disco group back in the day...
posted by Surely This at 1:54 PM on October 16, 2016 [13 favorites]


Somebody is mad and tired. Must have missed his nap - sad!
Paul Ryan, a man who doesn't know how to win (including failed run four years ago), must start focusing on the budget, military, vets etc.
(link is to Trump's twitter)
posted by sallybrown at 1:56 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Spathe Cadet, I'm sorry that my tone didn't come through very well. I didn't mean to accuse you of anything, and I can see why it reads that way. I said that because I have personally gone down the "well why didn't she do X and avoid this whole scandal?" train of thought entirely too many times, usually hitting my head in frustration at the Clinton tendency to seemingly do everything the hard way, but it doesn't matter because there's always another scandal to be mined. It frustrates me that I keep doing that, and I'm sorry I took it out on you.
posted by zachlipton at 1:56 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


(One of the many ways Trump is completely stupid - if he really wanted to harm Paul Ryan, he'd pretend he and Ryan are best buds and constantly post things like "Appreciate the kind remarks from Paul Ryan - his endorsement means a lot to me!" etc. This nastiness just helps Ryan claim later on that he and Trump were enemies.)
posted by sallybrown at 2:00 PM on October 16, 2016 [9 favorites]


Chris24: Amazing tweetstorm by conservative Tom Nichols:

Surely This: That needs a Storify summary. And coverage in the press.


Looks like someone has storified it for your convenience.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 2:01 PM on October 16, 2016 [9 favorites]


(One of the many ways Trump is completely stupid - if he really wanted to harm Paul Ryan, he'd pretend he and Ryan are best buds and constantly post things like "Appreciate the kind remarks from Paul Ryan - his endorsement means a lot to me!" etc. This nastiness just helps Ryan claim later on that he and Trump were enemies.)

One of the fascinating things about Trump is that I think he has not one introspective bone in his body, nor has he spent much time thinking about who he is or why he does things. So the above is completely impossible for him, because it requires some self-awareness. His interior life seems to be completely closed off. He functions on a level of pure instinctive manipulation, and has no understanding of why he does so or even that he does.

He's 70 years old and has lived his entire life asleep, in a sort of way. When he loses this election, it could shatter his identity. Good times.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:10 PM on October 16, 2016 [49 favorites]


If losing a billion dollars didn't do it, this won't either.
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:13 PM on October 16, 2016 [7 favorites]


Wow, Jeff Flake for the win and even giving credit to Democrats!
States, backed by tens of thousands of GOP and DEM volunteers, ensure integrity of electoral process. Elections are not rigged.
(twitter)
posted by sallybrown at 2:13 PM on October 16, 2016 [53 favorites]


Every single "respectable" republican left on the planet who doesn't come out in support of our democratic process has their hands officially tarred with the same disgusting substance that is currently covering donny's tiny little grabbers.

edited a typo: policy to process
posted by codacorolla at 2:19 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


Yeah, he has no inner life whatsoever, I'm fairly certain.
posted by soren_lorensen at 2:20 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


Glad that Hillary is on top of the firebombing by issuing a statement of condemnation, however brief. It's more than Trump would have done, but I wish she would do more. If she were to offer some kind of immediate aid to the local GOP, it would be a lovely gesture. Especially if they spat it back in her face, as they would be likely to do.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:21 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


If losing a billion dollars didn't do it, this won't either.

That was mostly secret and he could justify it away. It was also just money. As long as he could maintain living like a rich guy and looking like a rich guy then it was not a loss. I don't think Donald care so much about his actual money, having money is just the way for him to be big and important. Having money lets him be a bully and throw his weight around. He's about the illusion of money.

He is about reputation and acceptance. He's about being a 'winner'. This is a big time public loss, not only adding 'loser' to his name but even worse for him 'loser to a woman'. He going to have to use anything and everything to justify to himself why he lost because of the blow to his identity. Hence all the rigging crap he's throwing out. I think he actually believes it because why else would he lose? Bannon et al on the other hand don't believe it but are using it and him for their own agenda. Their respective goals have aligned for the time being. Bannon et al is going to play on Donalds pathological need to maintain his identity big time.
posted by Jalliah at 2:22 PM on October 16, 2016 [6 favorites]


Can someone please make a metatalk post about the HRC calling group bc I have multiple questions and this is probably not the place for them.
posted by bq at 2:26 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trying to think of even a way for the press to refer to Trump post-loss (as in, [brief descriptive phrase] Donald Trump) that won't infuriate him. Presidential loser? Unsuccessful candidate? Everything has the words loser, failure, unsuccessful, defeated...
posted by ctmf at 2:29 PM on October 16, 2016


I hope this is OK to bring into the thread, but I want to urge my fellow MeFites to really do their homework on down-ballot issues. I am normally a fairly partisan, straight-Dem-ticket voter, but the Dem nominee (though the parties aren't labeled on the judicial race section of the ballot) for one of the Ohio Supreme Court justice races turns out to be this guy. As a result, this may be the first time in my life I knowingly vote for a Republican, because his opponent seems OK, and I just can't square voting for someone who acquitted a police officer at the center of such a heinous shooting.

Besides our local League of Women Voters guide, I highly recommend Ballotpedia. For example, here is the starting page for the Ohio Supreme Court races.
posted by mostly vowels at 2:29 PM on October 16, 2016 [22 favorites]


"Loser Donald"
posted by mikelieman at 2:30 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


> "When he loses this election, it could shatter his identity."

Nah. I mean, we can actually see the mental gymnastics he's performing to maintain it playing out in real time. I normally don't like to armchair psychoanalyze, but this is so nakedly blatant it's like a master class in self-delusion. Trump does not lose ... so if Trump loses ... losing was fake! ... Trump is REALLY the president in mind of Trump, only place that matters!
posted by kyrademon at 2:31 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


ctmf, it'll probably be something boring and neutral like "one-time Presidential candidate" or "former Republican Presidential nominee". I'm sure he'll hate it, because it means he didn't win, but other people have run for President before and lost.

Also, I'd put real money on there being a degree of amnesia going forward, where in 5-10 years he's just "reality TV star" Donald Trump or "real estate magnate Donald Trump" and we don't really frame who he is around his POTUS run at all, because then we would have to look how close this country came to fascism square in the face.
posted by Sara C. at 2:36 PM on October 16, 2016 [6 favorites]


Can someone please make a metatalk post about the HRC calling group bc I have multiple questions and this is probably not the place for them.

It might be best if you make the metatalk with your questions (or just ask them here). Or memail kristi, who set it up.

One privacy note about the calling group: it will display your first name and last initial (whatever you use in your account with the campaign website) on the leaderboard. This isn't linked to your MeFi username in any way, so nobody can directly match anything up that way, but it is there for people to see. If that concerns you, then I wouldn't join the team (or you can leave the team once you've joined). You can still make calls either way.
posted by zachlipton at 2:36 PM on October 16, 2016


It would actually be neat to see a moving histogram over time of all the media adjective phrases attached to "Donald Trump" and how that's changed over the decades. Too bad that would be incredibly time-consuming and take too much manual searching and parsing to make.
posted by ctmf at 2:37 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Thank you, mostly vowels. I'm usually a straight-Dem voter as well. I didn't recognize that name on the ballot.
posted by Surely This at 2:38 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


Derail, because the Clinton email thing is definitely one of those can't win situations as zachlipton notes, but can you not set up the mail client on a Blackberry for two separate mail accounts? Eg., I have two gmail accounts (one for personal stuff, one for work-related stuff), and the mail client on my Android phone lets me easily switch between them. Or is it a reporting/security thing rather than a Blackberry thing, like, would a US cabinet secretary, like Clinton, have to make any email from any email account a matter of public record if they check it on/download it to the same device as their official government email?
posted by eviemath at 2:39 PM on October 16, 2016


where in 5-10 years he's just "reality TV star" Donald Trump or "real estate magnate Donald Trump"

This seems unlikely to me. Although America is a nation obsessed with forgetting the past and just moving on forward, this election year is going to leave deep scars on us, and Trump will never be able to go back to being real estate playboy/reality TV personality, as much as the GOP will want that to happen. This version of Trump is the one we'll remember.
posted by dis_integration at 2:41 PM on October 16, 2016 [13 favorites]


"Actual Comic Book Villain Donald Trump"
posted by Sara C. at 2:42 PM on October 16, 2016 [42 favorites]


I hope this is OK to bring into the thread, but I want to urge my fellow MeFites to really do their homework on down-ballot issues.

Absolutely. I was excited to see Prop 107 here in CO to replace our caucus with a presidential primary. However, I recently learned that it also replaces proportional delegate allocation with a winner-take-all election. As much as I'd like to see an end to the caucus, I can't give up on proportional delegates.
posted by audi alteram partem at 2:44 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


After this election I hope to have the entire thing surgically excised from my brain. No memories of frothing Giuliani, no endless pictures of Ivanka grinding on her dad, no lock-her-up chants, no deportation forces and border walls.

Eternal Sunshine of the Trumpless Mind
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:46 PM on October 16, 2016 [44 favorites]


I like "The World's Most Famous Failure Donald Trump".
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:46 PM on October 16, 2016 [8 favorites]


Been busy, and haven't posted much. There was talk upthread about how Xtreme Trumpublicans view "diversity." I felt like I was punched in the gut at the infamous summer family get-together when a college-age nephew told me outright, "I think this country works despite diversity, not because of it." How is that NOT really saying, "This country would be even better if it was all white straight men like me"?

Anyway, I voted by absentee ballot late last week. Cannot express what it's like to be a woman my age voting for a WOMAN president of the U.S. Feeling included and represented COUNTS, people. (And nephew.)

BTW one of my distractions has been replacing the car (RIP Old Honda, 1997!-2016). Today I took a call from a local HRC guy. When I told him about the car shopping distraction, he brought up how he just leased, which put that option back in play here. So if we do lease, and are happy with it, I'll have a nice young HRC supporter to thank.
posted by NorthernLite at 2:46 PM on October 16, 2016 [17 favorites]


Giuliani is such a contemptible shitweasel. If a few militia types decide to take this "rigged election" rhetoric seriously, then much of the blood will be on his hands. (And you know there are people out there right now wearing "Don't Tread On Me" shirts and MAGA hats and practicing their aim.)

He's decided that the chance to grab political power for himself, and for his party, is worth the risk of inciting violence and insurrection. How completely and utterly fucked is that?

This is the new normal for the GOP. Both the voters and the party have made it abundantly, unmistakably clear that they no longer believe in the legitimacy of our system. For all their talk about nationalism and "real Americans", they have, in fact, become the anti-American party. They are explicitly antagonistic toward American principles. They are actively striving to undermine democracy, rule of law, the free press, freedom of religion, and just about everything else.

Life in America will never be the same after this. I never had much in common with Republicans' politics, but at least I could pretend that most of the rank-and-file were generally decent and well-meaning (if often misinformed and misguided). That is no longer possible. They are now the party who tried to fucking overthrow the government, install a fascist, and institute white nationalism. Once you've undermined the stability of my democracy and agitated for an uprising that would put me in the crosshairs of your side's rifles, then I can no longer sit at a table with you and pretend that our differences are merely philosophical.

Three weeks and a day left.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 2:47 PM on October 16, 2016 [44 favorites]


dis_integration, it's worth noting that Charles Lindbergh's fascism is not widely remembered. Granted, that's 70+ years ago now, and most people have only the most cursory knowledge of him as a historical figure (important early pilot, kidnapped baby). And his brand of fascism never made much headway in the US.

But, yeah, this is something that America absolutely is going to forget. We won't forget it by January, but by 2025 this is going to be an absurd footnote that people don't talk about.

Also you better believe that even as soon as next year, this election is going to be framed as being an obviously qualified and historically significant candidate vs. a silly reality TV star. Not fascism. People are ALREADY forgetting that the dangerous thing about Trump isn't that he's a sexual harasser, but that he's a fascist.
posted by Sara C. at 2:47 PM on October 16, 2016 [10 favorites]


Clinton now going hard on Trump being a crazy conspiracy theorist with a tough new ad:

@HillaryClinton
Where does Trump get his talking points from? Often this alt-right conspiracy theorist, Alex Jones. (Watch all the way to the end.)
posted by chris24 at 2:50 PM on October 16, 2016 [53 favorites]


Egg McMuffin was just on weekend All Things Considered!
posted by jferg at 2:52 PM on October 16, 2016 [8 favorites]


Derail, because the Clinton email thing is definitely one of those can't win situations as zachlipton notes, but can you not set up the mail client on a Blackberry for two separate mail accounts?
Covered in a previous post.
posted by xyzzy at 2:56 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


"Obscure Historical Footnote Donald Trump" is the now-preferred nomenclature for one of the odder candidates in the late or "extinction burst" phase of the now-defunct Republican Party, some years before the brief transformation of American politics into a division between the Democratic Party and the Mefite Party, which elected only one president on a platform of Fully Automated Luxury Communism before dissolving into acrimonious internal strife over the pronunciation of their name.
posted by kyrademon at 2:58 PM on October 16, 2016 [46 favorites]


MSNBC has an interesting show on right now exploring the different news stories that went unreported / under the radar during the time that the LA riots of 1992 dominated the news cycle.

Makes me wonder what we've been missing during the Trumpocalypse.
posted by sallybrown at 3:00 PM on October 16, 2016 [13 favorites]


I know we need a break from the intense angst, but Trump losing and then becoming an irrelevance doesn't make all the scary attendees at his rallies suddenly quiet and harmless.
posted by puddledork at 3:01 PM on October 16, 2016 [15 favorites]


Apologies if it's already been posted somewhere on this thread but this video came up in my FB feed today and it was new to me. My understanding is that it's a Romney super PAC ad... damning Trump with a litany that suggest he's a secret progressive....and kinda making me want to vote for the guy [notreally].
posted by bonobothegreat at 3:03 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


> "I know we need a break from the intense angst, but Trump losing and then becoming an irrelevance doesn't make all the scary attendees at his rallies suddenly quiet and harmless."

We know.
posted by kyrademon at 3:03 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


Makes me wonder what we've been missing during the Trumpocalypse.
I've only heard deep coverage of the failure of the referendum on FARC on late night BBC news and a couple of NPR shows. Which disappoints me, because I think there are interesting parallels to draw to Brexit. If news beyond the election interests you, I highly recommend UK and Canadian news sources.
posted by xyzzy at 3:05 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


Here's the Youtube version of Clinton's Alex Jones ad for easier sharing.
posted by chris24 at 3:06 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


Countess Elena, An expression of outrage is just that and is appropriate. Any form of compensation would be an expression of complicity.
posted by teirnon at 3:06 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Things missing coverage in the Trumpocalypse:

Reporter facing charges for reporting.
posted by tilde at 3:12 PM on October 16, 2016 [27 favorites]


MetaFilter: I don't like them putting chemicals in the water that turn the friggin' frogs gay!
posted by tonycpsu at 3:14 PM on October 16, 2016 [11 favorites]


I wonder what is happening to Trump's cash flow with all that has happened. The hotels, golf courses and resorts have debt payments and relatively fixed operating expenses. If the bookings have fallen as many in the industry suggest; how long before the creditors start squeezing him. His foundation slush fund is probably either already or about to be frozen. Finally he makes money licensing his name. How many of those companies are still paying at this point? He certainly isn't going to be doing many new licensing deals soon. At least a few Trump branded buildings abroad have covered up his name or taken it off the sign. The lawsuits will be next to claim that his actions destroyed the brand they licensed.
posted by humanfont at 3:14 PM on October 16, 2016 [11 favorites]


A scary tweetstorm from Rick Wilson, GOP strategist and one of the NeverTrumpers who brought us Egg McMuffin:

@TheRickWilson
1/ The third journalist in the last 48 hours has told me of death threats to their home addresses or on their personal social media.

2/ But that's cool. Nothing can go wrong. It's not like the GOP nominee is stoking a rabid conspiracy-fueled army of loons.

3/ They DESERVE it, amirite? The descent into thugocracy is fun AND funny, right? "Putin knows how to handle them libural reporters."

4/ "Well, we won't threaten them if they'll just support the God-Emperor Cheeto the Magnificent" isn't...what's the word? American.

5/ Spoiler: your argument about media bias and fairness is DISMISSED when your allies threaten them and their families.

6/ I know, it doesn't matter if the threat is "serious"... at some point, when some mentally ill person acts on this frenzied condition...

7/ ...the people who built the predicates for it will slink away.

8/ Now my TL will fill with 1 of 3 responses: 1. "But they deserve it" 2. "But X on the left said Y." 3. "They do it, too!"
posted by chris24 at 3:16 PM on October 16, 2016 [48 favorites]


@Evan_McMullin
If the election is close, then we can block both Clinton & Trump from getting 270 votes & take this election to the House.

Jon Lovett ‏@jonlovett Retweeted Evan McMullin
Hi, I'm Evan McMullin, and I'd like to talk to you about some of the benefits of a Constitutional crisis.


The Founding Fathers (oof, how I loathe referring to them as one homogeneous group, but still) actually did think that most Presidential elections would ultimately be decided by the House, as there would not be big name recognition for candidates outside of their general vicinity to gain a majority of electoral votes. This quickly proved not to be the case, especially as nationwide party tickets (which had not been expected) became popular.
posted by dhens at 3:17 PM on October 16, 2016 [7 favorites]


If the bookings have fallen as many in the industry suggest;

Anecdata, day gig is supporting software used by event planners. There have been plenty of events at Trump properties in the past.

A search of our 'Upcoming Event List' shows ZERO events at Trump properties going forward.
posted by mikelieman at 3:19 PM on October 16, 2016 [41 favorites]


I have been thinking a lot about the licensing and this is my greatest dream. Live by the brand, die by the brand, motherfucker.

I have this dream where the family loses the rights to use the name in any professional contexts.
posted by mikelieman at 3:22 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


Thanks to that Tom Nichols tweetstorm, I hereby enter "farrago" into the vocabulary rotation. What a fantastic word.
posted by the painkiller at 3:23 PM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


Well I mean, he's pretty much publicly given everyone permission to not pay him if they're not satisfied with the results, right?
posted by ctmf at 3:23 PM on October 16, 2016 [33 favorites]


I have been thinking a lot about the licensing and this is my greatest dream. Live by the brand, die by the brand, motherfucker.

I wonder if these licensing contracts include language that allows the licensee to sever the contract when licensor (Cheeto Pendejo) brings the licensed name into disrepute. I bet there are a lot of places looking really closely for this type of reputation clause.
posted by tclark at 3:25 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


The lawsuits will be next to claim that his actions destroyed the brand they licensed.

Those lawsuits have already begun. The brand is poison now, a luxury brand whose only remaining market of devotees are too poor to afford what the brand peddles.
posted by mightygodking at 3:25 PM on October 16, 2016 [21 favorites]


So Trump tweeted "Finally, in the new ABC News/Washington Post Poll, Hillary Clinton is down 11 points with WOMEN VOTERS and the election is close at 47-43!"

Nobody seems to know what planet that number comes from. The poll he cites shows Clinton +8 with women in the 4-way nationally. It's fantasyland.
posted by zachlipton at 3:27 PM on October 16, 2016 [15 favorites]


He might actually be kind of right. She had been ahead of Trump among women by 19 in the previous poll, so 19 - 11 = 8. But she is now tied with Trump among men, where he had previously led by 19. It doesn't make sense that she'd lose so much among women and gain twice as much with men over the past week, so this just may be an outlier.
posted by maudlin at 3:33 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


He's decided that the chance to grab political power for himself, and for his party, is worth the risk of inciting violence and insurrection. How completely and utterly fucked is that?

In the history of human civilization? Depressingly normal.

In the USA? Well, we're a young nation. Everything is new to us at some point.
posted by jackbishop at 3:34 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'm no insurance expert, but how does this work for Trump's businesses going forward? Who would cover a Trump hotel for employment practices liability after this? You've got the boss on tape admitting to sexual assault, a long list of women accusing him of the same, and film of him insulting various ethnic groups, including stating that someone cannot do their job because of their ethnicity. Surely every one of his properties is a lawsuit magnet now? You just roll those tapes and say "this culture of harassment and/or discrimination starts at the very top." Who's going to insure that?
posted by zachlipton at 3:37 PM on October 16, 2016 [14 favorites]




Glad that Hillary is on top of the firebombing by issuing a statement of condemnation, however brief. It's more than Trump would have done, but I wish she would do more. If she were to offer some kind of immediate aid to the local GOP, it would be a lovely gesture. Especially if they spat it back in her face, as they would be likely to do.

"Animals representing Hillary Clinton and Dems in North Carolina just firebombed our office in Orange County because we are winning @NCGOP" --@realDonaldTrump

When we go high, he goes low.
posted by zachlipton at 3:38 PM on October 16, 2016 [19 favorites]




I've seen several people joke that if Trump loses then in a few years he and/or the Republican party will start saying that he never ran for President.

But that's not really giving them enough credit—they'd be pretending he never ran eventually either way the election goes, just look at GWB.
posted by ckape at 3:41 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


I don't thing I've got the reach to make it happen myself but a #BecauseItsRigged hashtag would be pretty fun if anyone wants to give it a shot.

Seems #ThingsTrumpClaimsRigged is trending.

(the most entertaining bit is probably all the trumpists ranting about how it's a FACT that everything is rigged)
posted by effbot at 3:41 PM on October 16, 2016


When we go high, he goes low.

I'm not high enough for this shit.
posted by mikelieman at 3:42 PM on October 16, 2016 [36 favorites]


2013: @realDonaldTrump (real) We know who did the hoax of James Gandolfini and ObamaCare. Be careful, Mister

Strangely enough, there's an explanation for this. Some random twitterer made up a tweet that (as a joke) attributed to Donald the accusation that Obamacare killed James Gandolfini. This eventually came to Trump's attention and he was outraged by it and made the threat above. I wish I could find the blog link explaining this by the original tweeter, but I promise it's a real thing!
posted by sallybrown at 3:43 PM on October 16, 2016 [6 favorites]


He might actually be kind of right. She had been ahead of Trump among women by 19 in the previous poll, so 19 - 11 = 8.

First there was that "technical analysis" that wasn't good enough for a bar napkin, now he's seeking solace in first derivatives. For a guy who appeals to anti-intellectualism, he's certainly straining the limits of what math nerds can do to make him look good.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:45 PM on October 16, 2016 [9 favorites]


He also says "just firebombed" when the attack occurred overnight. Did he just learn about it or something? Where was the 3am phone call he's so interested in?
posted by zachlipton at 3:45 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


However, this one has no explanation (emphasis mine):
The polls have shown that DEAD PEOPLE voted for President Obama overwhelmingly and without hesitation - he must be doing something right!
without hesitation!
posted by sallybrown at 3:46 PM on October 16, 2016 [36 favorites]


I wish I could find the blog link explaining this by the original tweeter, but I promise it's a real thing!

That One Time I Was Vaguely Threatened By Donald Trump After Duping Twitter
posted by effbot at 3:48 PM on October 16, 2016 [7 favorites]


The undead smell the sulfur coming from Obama and don't have to pause and think, but know him as one of their masters.
posted by delfin at 3:50 PM on October 16, 2016 [8 favorites]


without hesitation!

Uh-oh, this timeline has fast zombies.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:50 PM on October 16, 2016 [28 favorites]


The Wason Center for Public Policy now has Clinton up by 15 points in Virginia (.pdf). I wonder if the Trump campaign was getting similar internals when they decided to pull out of Virginia.

Colorado seems to also be edging into the "safe Clinton" column - the only Colorado poll in the last two weeks to have Hillary up by less than 10 points is Breitbart/Gravis.
posted by strangely stunted trees at 3:50 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


Trump's next rally is going to be incredibly scary.
posted by Talez at 3:54 PM on October 16, 2016 [16 favorites]


"We, as Christians, have a responsibility to do it in a way that doesn’t violate the Ninth Commandment. We don’t want to bear false witness against our neighbor"

OMG this has been a long election. I'm starting to confuse Commandments and Amendments. This makes ZERO SENSE if you misread it as "Ninth Amendment."

On the "fire in a crowded theater" thing, it is one of my least favorite legal metaphors because not only is it no longer good law, but people use it to mean "say something untrue to mildly alarm people" when in fact let us remember that they were talking about pre-fire-code, pre-fire-department theaters, lit with candles or gas flame lights, built entirely of wood, with inadequate entry and exit doors, and highly flammable stage curtains. When they lit on fire, which was with alarming frequncy due to the super-hot flame lights, wood, overcrowding, and curtains, they went up like that and everyone died. When you falsely shouted fire in a crowded theater back then, there were DEADLY STAMPEDES as people tried to escape death and got crushed in the wildly inadequate doorways. Nowadays if you shout fire in a crowded theater someone pulls the fire alarm to set off the very loud notification and alert the fire department, and everyone proceeds in an orderly fashion to the adequate and well-marked exit after a lifetime of fire drills, overhead fire suppression sprinklers trigger, and fire doors and curtains that limit the spread close, while a research-based, tax-funded fire department comes to put the fire out and rescue stuck people. Modern people used to #2 don't think about #1.

(Anyway, Trump's getting pretty close to shouting fire in a crowded theater, original version.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:57 PM on October 16, 2016 [75 favorites]


Animals representing Hillary Clinton and Dems in North Carolina just firebombed our office in Orange County because we are winning @NCGOP

The use of 'animals' is no accident. It's not even a dogwhistle. He's straight up saying to his white supremacist supporters that blacks did this. And encouraging a response.
posted by chris24 at 3:58 PM on October 16, 2016 [61 favorites]


Well, this is interesting. Not sure if Roger is threatening Trump, trying to shake him down, abandoning a sinking ship or what.

@RogerJStoneJr
It turns out the entity with which I signed a non-disclosure agreement for the #Trump campaign was never legally constituted #invalid
posted by chris24 at 4:04 PM on October 16, 2016 [66 favorites]


Prediction: evidence will emerge implicating white supremacist Trump supporters in the firebombing. Trump's Mirror reifying that of Archimedes.
posted by mwhybark at 4:06 PM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


@RogerJStoneJr
It turns out the entity with which I signed a non-disclosure agreement for the #Trump campaign was never legally constituted #invalid


I wonder how many other NDAs fall into this trap? Book deals all around!
posted by Surely This at 4:07 PM on October 16, 2016 [11 favorites]


I don't know what Roger Stone is on about but I have cleared my schedule and purchased a lot of popcorn. I am ready.
posted by palomar at 4:08 PM on October 16, 2016 [29 favorites]


Sounds like a pretty clear bribe solicitation to me. Oh! So no reason for me not to dish. [holds out palm]

Well played, Rog. Almost like you've been in this shady game a while.
posted by ctmf at 4:10 PM on October 16, 2016 [8 favorites]


It's amazing that someone like Roger Stone who subverts democracy time and time again always seems to weasel out of consequences.
posted by Yowser at 4:13 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


I thought Roger Stone needed a go_on.gif.
posted by zachlipton at 4:15 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Roger Stone, to Donald Trump: "You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in." [fake]
posted by Spathe Cadet at 4:17 PM on October 16, 2016 [21 favorites]


@RogerJStoneJr
It turns out the entity with which I signed a non-disclosure agreement for the #Trump campaign was never legally constituted #invalid


Reminder that the due date for the Trump Foundation to supply New York with all the legal paperwork necessary to register as a charity that solicits money is...tomorrow.
posted by sallybrown at 4:17 PM on October 16, 2016 [20 favorites]


RE: Roger Stone...

@HeerJeet
The problem with hiring an honest to goodness ratfucker is he might decide you are the rat he can most profitably fuck.
posted by chris24 at 4:21 PM on October 16, 2016 [82 favorites]


I accidentally waded into a thread on Facebook with a lot of Trump supporters who are parents. Most of them seem to just not believe any of the accusers at all. Also, Benghazi.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:25 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


Could we maybe not speculate about who attacked the NC office? It's kind of distasteful.
posted by zachlipton at 4:26 PM on October 16, 2016 [12 favorites]


'Trump-Emboldened,' 'Racist' Crowds Feed An Exodus At The Second City In Chicago
At least four performers and three members of management have exited famed improv institution The Second City within the last several day—in part due to racist remarks made by audiences who feel bolstered by Donald Trump’s rhetoric, some involved parties said.
To quote Condi Rice: ENOUGH.
posted by dis_integration at 4:27 PM on October 16, 2016 [35 favorites]


There is no evidence at all at this point about who was involved in the firebombing, and it does no good to speculate until the authorities have investigated.
posted by tclark at 4:27 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]




Preaching to the choir, I know, but don't vote for Trump because he's so. damn. incompetent. He had money, name recognition, a solid base of support, free unlimited media access, powerful friends... And he uses all those things like an unskilled nunchucks enthusiast, beating himself up while everyone points and laughs.
posted by ctmf at 4:28 PM on October 16, 2016 [9 favorites]


Can we please stop speculating about the source of the attacks on the GOP HQ? The people working there are victims of political violence, the same sort of political violence that Trump and his supporters have been threatening. They must be terrified, and we ought to know how terrified they are.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 4:29 PM on October 16, 2016 [29 favorites]


MetaFilter: people used to #2 don't think about #1
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:31 PM on October 16, 2016 [7 favorites]


Is the NCGOP being sarcastic? The tweet they quoted doesn't say anything about thoughts or prayers.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 4:31 PM on October 16, 2016 [8 favorites]


If anybody can make fascism funny, it's the self-proclaimed Gang of Idiots at MAD Magazine.

And the combination of incompetence and self-serving greed are probably the only things that would keep President Trump from going Full Fascist in office. Now President Pence is another thing...
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:32 PM on October 16, 2016


emjaybee: I wouldn't be that surprised that a pro-life person writing in Patreos would think the way to oppose abortion was not to try to overturn Roe vs. Wade. A little ways down the article, the writer lists the reasons women have abortions (which have obviously been researched and quantified) and makes the case that it's trying to overcome these problems that will reduce the number of abortions. Wouldn't you know it, "because women are wanton sinners and want to have sex without consequences" is not on that list.

Patreos is where the #NotAllEvangelist evangelists of the Internet live, you know, the people who actually paid attention at Sunday class while they were talking about loving neighbours and helping "the least of these." It's also the home of Fred Clark (Slacktivist), who's one of the most compassionate religious people I've read. I think the site is multi-faith.

Unrelated: I've finally caught up with the thread and probably missed where this was mentioned, but: Amazing choice of title. Made me tear up again. Thank you, Wordshore.
posted by seyirci at 4:33 PM on October 16, 2016 [19 favorites]


Prediction: evidence will emerge implicating white supremacist Trump supporters in the firebombing. Trump's Mirror reifying that of Archimedes.

Hm, I think "white teenage anarchist type" (per Kristin Rawls) should be on the list there. But I'm not going to get ahead of this.

I do think he'll add an event in Hillsborough to his schedule, perhaps on Friday, and will wave the bloody shirt. (Pence is booked in for the umpteenth time further east in NC, in Wilmington and Fayetteville, on Tuesday.)
posted by holgate at 4:34 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


Is the NCGOP being sarcastic? The tweet they quoted doesn't say anything about thoughts or prayers.

I'm going to choose to read it as sincere to keep my head from exploding. But I can see where you're going...
posted by sallybrown at 4:37 PM on October 16, 2016 [10 favorites]


Is the NCGOP being sarcastic? The tweet they quoted doesn't say anything about thoughts or prayers.

Hmm, I wonder! If so, joke's on them - most people are reading it as sincere.
posted by peacheater at 4:37 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


Is the NCGOP being sarcastic?

That Twitter account has a reputation for being run by Junior Republican asshats; I've seen some shit from them dealing with state politics in the past. But I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here.
posted by holgate at 4:38 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


The brand is poison now, a luxury brand whose only remaining market of devotees are too poor to afford what the brand peddles.

Someone else paste the "actually Trump supporters are well off white people" link for the bajillionth time please, I am on mobile.
posted by phearlez at 4:44 PM on October 16, 2016 [24 favorites]


I want to believe it's a green shoot of humanity poking out of this awful election. I hope I'm right.
posted by condour75 at 4:44 PM on October 16, 2016 [15 favorites]


If it's sarcasm, they're only highlighting the insincerity of Republican reactions to mass shootings. If it's sincere, great. Win for HRC either way.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:46 PM on October 16, 2016 [7 favorites]


I think it's sincere. While she didn't say the phrase, she expressed her thoughts in the tweet, and expressed gratitude that people were safe, which can be interpreted as a thank God people are safe, which is prayer-like. Plus they're just responding in a common turn of phrase. Am I working too hard to see it nicely?
posted by chris24 at 4:50 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


Anderson Cooper's 60 Minutes report on the Rosenbergs makes it pretty clear that Trump's mentor, Roy Cohn, suborned perjury in order to achieve the execution of Ethel Rosenberg. Their children are asking that their mother's name be cleared.
posted by xyzzy at 4:51 PM on October 16, 2016 [24 favorites]


Just was called for polling purposes on my cellphone. Sad that Evan McMullin was not on the list of 'whom would you vote for' question
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 4:53 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


I read it as sarcastic shade on Trump himself for not even pausing to acknowledge the human side, immediately using it as an attack on his opponents.
posted by ctmf at 4:59 PM on October 16, 2016 [12 favorites]


It was the "how often do you visit McDonald's before 11am" question.
posted by jaduncan at 5:05 PM on October 16, 2016 [13 favorites]


> Someone else paste the "actually Trump supporters are well off white people" link for the bajillionth time please, I am on mobile.

The less-visible chonk of Trump's supporters may have higher incomes than Bernie and HRC supporters, but those people are voting for Trump because of racism and tax breaks.

Those people will probably not be spending their hard-earned money they didn't have to pay in taxes on cheap and crass Trump crap.
posted by porpoise at 5:06 PM on October 16, 2016


@Evan_McMullin
GOP Leaders are standing with Trump as he attacks the legitimacy of our elections, & they can't avoid accountability for this. @CNN
posted by chris24 at 5:09 PM on October 16, 2016 [32 favorites]


Those people will probably not be spending their hard-earned money they didn't have to pay in taxes on cheap and crass Trump crap.

Tell that to my affluent-suburban-Maryland mother, who proudly sports her MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN! drink cozy everywhere she goes.
posted by delfin at 5:11 PM on October 16, 2016 [6 favorites]




That, and also, yes, someone has been staying in Trump properties and watching The Apprentice for all these years.
posted by Sara C. at 5:14 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Did people really watch The Apprentice, or was that in the Barenstein Bears Universe?
posted by Yowser at 5:19 PM on October 16, 2016 [16 favorites]


The less-visible chonk of Trump's supporters may have higher incomes than Bernie and HRC supporters, but those people are voting for Trump because of racism and tax breaks.

I see what you did there!

Anyway, phearlez, here ya go.
posted by tonycpsu at 5:20 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


The AP has been iffy this election, but this lede starts making up for it:

Trump challenges legitimacy of election

"A beleaguered Donald Trump sought to undermine the legitimacy of the U.S. presidential election on Saturday, pressing unsubstantiated claims the contest is rigged against him, vowing anew to jail Hillary Clinton if he's elected and throwing in a baseless insinuation his rival was on drugs in the last debate.

Not even the country's more than two centuries of peaceful transitions of political leadership were sacrosanct as Trump accused the media and the Clinton campaign of conspiring against him to undermine a free and fair election."
posted by chris24 at 5:23 PM on October 16, 2016 [28 favorites]


It was the "how often do you visit McDonald's before 11am" question
The McDonalds Anytime Breakfast means you can have Evan McMullin at any time of the day, or the Quckdraw McGriddle.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:26 PM on October 16, 2016 [11 favorites]


Well, Trump branded stuff kind of comes in two tiers. There's the faux-classy steaks and vodka and crap and the casinos which are totes in reach for the reasonably well- off middle class Trumpist. Then there's the luxury resorts, which are waaay too rich for my blood, as a card carrying member of the reasonably well off middle class. Like, the DC hotel is tanking and offering its rooms for half off, making them still over $400/night. Nah, son, that's not for the likes of us.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:27 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


I just finished my final shift of voter registration today in CO--starting tomorrow, all volunteer efforts go toward GOTV, and I really wanted to come back to the office with all the forms completed, but almost everyone I talked to was already registered. There were a few people who just said they aren't voting and kept walking. I handed out slips with the info for how to check their voter registration status. Several people smiled and thanked me for being out there, which is encouraging. I loved being able to tell people that ballots go out in the mail tomorrow to all registered voters and got lots of thumbs up in response to that.
posted by danielleh at 5:29 PM on October 16, 2016 [17 favorites]


Did people really watch The Apprentice, or was that in the Barenstein Bears Universe?

I watched part of the season with Gary Busey and Meatloaf.
posted by Jalliah at 5:31 PM on October 16, 2016




T. R. Ramachandran ‏@yottapoint: Can you name ANY MALE Presidential candidate who has apologized specifically for at least 4 of his statements, positions or actions?

Great tweetstorm. Click on the link and read the whole thing if you have a chance.
posted by chris24 at 5:35 PM on October 16, 2016 [7 favorites]


Reuters is following on the story of Trump and claims of rigged elections as well.

TOP NEWS
Sun Oct 16, 2016 | 7:31 PM EDT
Trump charges U.S. election results being rigged 'at many polling places'
Trump, a New York businessman, who has never held elective office, has often said the electoral process is skewed against him, including during the Republican nominating contests, when he disputed the method for winning delegates to the Republican National Convention.

His latest complaint of media bias stems from allegations by women that he groped them or made other unwanted sexual advances, after a 2005 video became public in which Trump was recorded bragging about such behavior. He apologized for the video but has denied each of the accusations.

"Election is being rigged by the media, in a coordinated effort with the Clinton campaign, by putting stories that never happened into news!" Trump tweeted on Sunday, a sentiment he also expressed in posts and during rallies in Maine and New Hampshire on Saturday. The comments raised questions both from Republicans and Democrats about whether he would accept the outcome should he lose to Clinton.

Trump said after the first presidential debate in September that he would "absolutely" accept the election outcome. But a few days afterward, he told the New York Times: "We're going to see what happens."

He has also urged his supporters to keep an eye on voting locations to prevent a "stolen" election, which some critics interpreted as encouraging them to intimidate voters.

Pence said on Sunday he and Trump would respect the will of the voters.
posted by tilde at 5:38 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


38% of the populace behind you is terrible if you are running for president, absolutely kick ass if you are starting a propaganda-based tv network.

Those 38% aren't necessarily behind Trump, though. One big chunk are Republicans or conservatives who don't want liberals to take over the Supreme Court. Another big chunk are abortion absolutists who would actively prefer a more consistent anti-choice Republican anyway. Some hate Hillary for whatever reason (misogyny, brainwashing, just not liking her) and couldn't imagine voting for her but have no particular fondness for Trump.

I'd guess his true believers are more like 12% to 20% of the public. Which is still a lot of people.
posted by msalt at 5:49 PM on October 16, 2016 [7 favorites]


The AP has been iffy this election, but this lede starts making up for it:

Not if you respect the Oxford comma.
posted by mudpuppie at 5:57 PM on October 16, 2016 [34 favorites]


I'm really going to enjoy these people being tarred for life for supporting this campaign.

Donald Trump Surrogate Claims Nominee Wasn’t Mocking His Accusers’ Looks

“Mr. Trump isn’t referring to anybody’s looks. To the degree that he does perhaps, I don’t think he was referring to her looks. If he did, when you have somebody claiming that you sexually assaulted them, you have brought looks into the equation,” Delgado said.

“If somebody said, ‘A.J. was attracted to me and touched me in an inappropriate manner,’ it’s relevant to the discussion whether that person is the type of person that I would normally be attracted to,” Delgado continued.”
posted by chris24 at 5:58 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


"when you have somebody claiming that you sexually assaulted them, you have brought looks into the equation,” Delgado said.

Ugh. No. Basic misunderstanding (or active misrepresentation) of sexual assault as being about attraction/sex instead of as being about power.
posted by eviemath at 6:01 PM on October 16, 2016 [65 favorites]


12% to 20% of the public.

Well, the polls reflect likely voters, so even less really.
posted by Miko at 6:01 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


“If somebody said, ‘A.J. was attracted to me and touched me in an inappropriate manner,’ it’s relevant to the discussion whether that person is the type of person that I would normally be attracted to,” Delgado continued.”

SILENT RAGESCREAM
posted by alleycat01 at 6:02 PM on October 16, 2016 [54 favorites]



I need a word that's worse then deplorable. Not sure if there is even a word that would work.
posted by Jalliah at 6:04 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


I need a word that's worse then deplorable. Not sure if there is even a word that would work.

Swearing and Words of Aggression in German
posted by mikelieman at 6:08 PM on October 16, 2016 [13 favorites]


Did people really watch The Apprentice, or was that in the Barenstein Bears Universe?

Barenstein? Is this election tearing the whole multiverse apart?
posted by No-sword at 6:08 PM on October 16, 2016 [27 favorites]


Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump
Animals representing Hillary Clinton and Dems in North Carolina just firebombed our office in Orange County because we are winning @NCGOP


Orange County is perhaps the bluest county in the state and Trump is certainly not winning it. I don't know who are the assholes who bombed the GOP office, but I am pretty well certain it wasn't the Orange County Democrats.
posted by thelonius at 6:12 PM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


Thank you, mikelieman! Got my debate night tweets ready now.
Was für ein Arschloch!
posted by clever sheep at 6:17 PM on October 16, 2016 [6 favorites]


Liz Warren is on fire in Colorado now..
posted by mikelieman at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2016


Mod note: Let's not speculate any further on the firebombing perps without evidence. I think you guys have covered all the speculatory bases.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2016 [10 favorites]


Did people really watch The Apprentice

I loved The Apprentice. Very strange show. Like watching a (bad) child actor play the role of Gordon Gekko. There was something so surreal and humanish about Trump's persona...hard to describe it now when he's proudly unveiled himself as a monster seeking power.
posted by sallybrown at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


C'mon, Florida, let's do this!

@kylegriffin1
If Clinton wins Florida, Trayvon Martin's mother will be one of the state's Electoral College members
http://www.politico.com/magazine/thepeoplewhopickthepresident/2016
posted by chris24 at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2016 [82 favorites]


Did people really watch The Apprentice, or was that in the Barenstein Bears Universe?

Barenstein?


In my universe Donald Trump had a spokesman named John Barronstein.
posted by mmoncur at 6:25 PM on October 16, 2016 [14 favorites]


@kylegriffin1
If Clinton wins Florida, Trayvon Martin's mother will be one of the state's Electoral College members
http://www.politico.com/magazine/thepeoplewhopickthepresident/2016


Shhh. No one tell Trump or he'll be screaming "rigged!" all through naptime.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2016 [18 favorites]


I think you guys have covered all the speculatory bases.
In my experience, when you've covered all the speculatory bases, the real answer is way out in Left Field... or Right Field. Anyway, Go Dodgers!

Semi-related, MeFi's Own Miss Cellania found an excellently concise summary of Pro-Trump/Anti-Clinton Double Standards.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2016 [9 favorites]


'Trump-Emboldened,' 'Racist' Crowds Feed An Exodus At The Second City In Chicago

Two maybe three years ago my wife and I were at a Second City show where a Tea Party fanatic would not shut up or let go during the final improve segment. It was one of those moments where everyone else just kind looks at each other awkwardly and thinks "tourist". It was pretty uncomfortable and they handled it fairly well though it was obviously a racism driven Obamacare thing.

For those who don't know the drill they do routines in exchange for cash donations as their final bit. Afterwards they make a huge point of saying that the proceeds will go to pro-choice charities like Planned Parenthood.
posted by srboisvert at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2016 [10 favorites]


@marceelias
Breaking: Federal Court orders Florida to give voters a chance to cure mail ballots that do not have a signature.

Decision available here [pdf via dropbox via @marceelias].
posted by melissasaurus at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2016 [13 favorites]


Semi-related, MeFi's Own Miss Cellania found an excellently concise summary of Pro-Trump/Anti-Clinton Double Standards.

Don't forget John Stoehr's mother of all tweetstorms on HRC double standards.
posted by Talez at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2016 [11 favorites]


Swearing and Words of Aggression in German

Thanks this is great.

I have found another way to solve my desire for stronger words. Halfway through the first episode Deadwood. It is surprisingly cathartic right now.
posted by Jalliah at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


Failed Fascist Donald Trump
Exiled Insurrectionist Donald Trump
Trump TV majority shareholder Donald Trump
Guest of President Putin, Donald Trump
Alleged Billionaire Donald Trump
Suspected Millionaire Donald Trump
Former Brand Spokesman and Licensor, Donald Drumpf
Carnival Cruise Real America Val-U Pack Passengers please welcome your host, Donald Trump!
posted by EatTheWeek at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2016 [15 favorites]


Tacky and rich are not mutually exclusive.
posted by teirnon at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2016 [18 favorites]


"perpetual pub quiz trivia answer Donald Trump"
posted by merocet at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2016 [16 favorites]


Sweet, my mail-in ballot (Californian) came in! Time to read up on, like, all the props.
posted by KChasm at 6:55 PM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


"New York Times' Most Successful Promotion Since The Iraq War Donald Trump"
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


Whoa, I just saw a prime-time major-network Trump ad on TV in Peoria, the country's 118th-largest TV market (smaller than Fargo), in a solidly blue state, in a broadcast area with no competitive House races. I've barely seen Senate ads this cycle! I'm not sure I have literally ever seen a GOP presidential candidate ad before on local broadcast. He could pick up all ~150,000 voters in the theoretical broadcast area and it'd barely make a dent in Obama's million-vote margin from 2012. And Trump's version of Republicanism doesn't play well in Illinois, where the GOP is more moderate. There are zero electoral college votes available in this ad buy!

Literally lighting money on fire.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2016 [43 favorites]


Tacky and rich are not mutually exclusive

Technically true, but not so much in practice. There are the nouveau riche, certainly, but not all of them fail to recognize the new social norms they've wandered into. Charitable giving is a big one, and is why the Gates get a pass that The Donald does not.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2016 [6 favorites]


Don't forget John Stoehr's mother of all tweetstorms on HRC double standards.

How an i going to follow election threads now that my scroll bar is broken?
posted by Dashy at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2016


I hope this is OK to bring into the thread, but I want to urge my fellow MeFites to really do their homework on down-ballot issues.

Here in Virginia, we have 2 Constitutional measures - a pernicious right to work amendment referred by our Teabagger controlled congress; and a transparently pandering to the law enforcement vote to exempt police widows from paying property taxes in perpetuity.

I'm voting no on both. Virginia already has a right to work statute, enshrining this shit in the state constitution is just an additional legal hurdle against ever overturning it. And sorry, everyone has to pay taxes, no exceptions for the police or their families. Even churches should pay taxes in a just world, no blanket exceptions for anyone.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2016 [10 favorites]


Literally lighting money on fire.

Couldn't it just be a nationwide ad? I mean, I see the occasional Clinton or Trump ad in NY. I assumed that sometimes a nationwide ad is more efficient than a set of media market ads.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:09 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Imagine the money laundering opportunities in these ad buys.
posted by perspicio at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


"Couldn't it just be a nationwide ad? "

I watch OTA broadcast, which I believe are basically all local-market buys.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:19 PM on October 16, 2016


The Dems just raised 10k via Gofundme to reopen the GOP office that was firebombed.
posted by emjaybee at 7:19 PM on October 16, 2016 [135 favorites]


Actually the Virginia constitutional amendment would give localities the right to decide to grant the exception to police widows.
posted by DanSachs at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


The Dems just raised 10k to reopen the GOP office that was firebombed via Gofundme

That's so amazing on so many levels.
posted by Jalliah at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2016 [35 favorites]


I think it's this?:

https://www.gofundme.com/reopen-a-nc-republican-office-2ukuprzy
posted by XtinaS at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


What channel on what cable system? TrumpTV's going to need some help getting on local systems, and Comcast is the one provider that also owns cable channels, a broadcast network (NBC) and some local stations. Or if it is an NBC station, maybe they're trying to pay them to muzzle the writers at SNL... also a waste of money, but a different waste of money.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:25 PM on October 16, 2016


Barenstein? Is this election tearing the whole multiverse apart?

Berenstain! The timeline is collapsing!
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2016 [8 favorites]


We go high.
posted by EarBucket at 7:30 PM on October 16, 2016 [28 favorites]


I would say that Trump's campaign will be used as an example of what not to do for decades but honestly I can't imagine anyone being as absolutely clueless as to actually running a campaign. When you are hearing panicked alarms from GOP operatives in states that shouldn't even be remotely competitive (Arizona) and the few attempts at actually expanding the field of competitive states are limited to Trump rallies in states unlikely to go Republican it's hard to figure out just what the hell Trump's campaign is trying to do.

At this point in time it seems like the ultimate goal is to create an alt-right news network but I can't imagine that being particularly profitable at least not to the point where you should torpedo your own hotel brands.

The Trump siblings have got to be wondering how many billions this campaign is going to cost them in the long run.
posted by vuron at 7:31 PM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


We go high.

They go low.

Hillary Jail Stripes Men's Tee

From the official Donald J Trump campaign merchandise store.
posted by chris24 at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


If you want to donate to an NC org that has led the fight against institutional voter suppression, the state chapter of the NAACP (led by Rev Barber) is available.
posted by holgate at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2016 [22 favorites]


The opening line of this WSJ article is just delicious:
Donald Trump, trailing in opinion polls and facing new accusations by women of unwanted sexual contact, has begun arguing he will win the election on a surge of silent backers who have gone undetected by surveys and the political establishment.
The silver lining of this pervasive anger and despondence is it brings out a lot of excellent writing.
posted by sallybrown at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2016 [26 favorites]


The silver lining of this pervasive anger and despondence is it brings out a lot of excellent writing.

"Unskew the electorate."
posted by holgate at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2016 [10 favorites]


I love this. It's the right thing to do and it says "we believe in a healthy and functioning democracy" which is obviously a very stark contrast to Trump's vision of America.

It's really lovable. It reminds me of this trope, and will likely turn out just as well, but even so.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


Donald Trump, trailing in opinion polls and facing new accusations by women of unwanted sexual contact, has begun arguing he will win the election on a surge of silent backers who have gone undetected by surveys and the political establishment.

Wasn't it Nixon who claimed the support of a silent majority?
posted by Dip Flash at 7:42 PM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


And sorry, everyone has to pay taxes, no exceptions for the police or their families. Even churches should pay taxes in a just world, no blanket exceptions for anyone.

So we should get rid of the whole provision that exempts the disabled and vets too? And it's just not police, but fire fighters etc.


I'm voting no on both as well, but let's be fair on what the change does.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 7:43 PM on October 16, 2016



The Trump siblings have got to be wondering how many billions this campaign is going to cost them in the long run

There are no billions, everything is in hock made evident by all the different scams that came to light. The hubris of running for president while not allowing tax return access caused scrutiny that may well be the end of the family business. I wonder how much they know of their father's deals? Don Jr.and Eric take part in the business, but they don't seem very bright. I think they're happy with the image and to be able to go big game hunting. Ivanka may have wisely gone in to business for herself, but that brand could be tarnished as well.

Maybe they can all take up being on reality TV. I think Dancing With the Stars could be a good match.
posted by readery at 7:44 PM on October 16, 2016 [10 favorites]


What channel on what cable system? TrumpTV's going to need some help getting on local systems, and Comcast is the one provider that also owns cable channels, a broadcast network (NBC) and some local stations.

Considering Breitbart's internet presence, they might do some premium online site. Or use youtube. I keep envisioning when Trump loses, he uses his 'concession' speech to blame the mainstream media for rigging the election and then directs his supporters to go to Breitbart.com who will be launching TrumpTV. Considering how he uses press events as commercials for hotels, why not turn your loss into the biggest commercial of all time?
posted by airish at 7:44 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Regarding the court decision in Florida to allow people to correct mismatched signatures on mail ballots:

@Taniel: Powerful last sentence in new federal ruling against Florida's SoS: "This Court knows disenfranchisement when it sees it and it is obscene." https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/787832464014184448/photo/1
posted by chris24 at 7:48 PM on October 16, 2016 [71 favorites]


he will win the election on a surge of silent backers who have gone undetected by surveys and the political establishment.

Aw, that's cute. The lurkers support him in email.
posted by jackbishop at 7:49 PM on October 16, 2016 [19 favorites]


Hillary Jail Stripes Men's Tee

From the official Donald J Trump campaign merchandise store.


Remember way back when Kellyanne was trying to tell us it was just a quip? You know. Sunday just gone.
posted by Talez at 7:51 PM on October 16, 2016 [19 favorites]


Remember way back when Kellyanne was trying to tell us it was just a quip? You know. Sunday just gone.

They've been selling Hillary for Prison march since September. Of course, no journalists have confronted Trump surrogates or Pence or Kellyanne about it.
posted by airish at 7:56 PM on October 16, 2016 [8 favorites]


This is what Senator Sasse said to WORLD Magazine recently, and I really hope he's being sincere:

So something that may not be obvious to people not living in the heart of Republican land - every politician who is not endorsing Trump is currently getting threats from Trumpkins, ranging from "we will vote you out" to violence. Senator Sasse has stood pretty consistently for the last several months that he does not, in any way, support the current enTrumpening of the party. He's the one who, when asked if he was attending the RNC, gave an official statement that he would be touring the dumpster fires of Nebraska with his daughter, which would be much more educational.

I get that not everyone may like his policies, and it's reasonable not to do so, but on sincerity, I truly believe in him. He's also had some epic angry moments in response to this "rigging" talk.
posted by corb at 7:59 PM on October 16, 2016 [62 favorites]


Another good sign Arizona might be in reach.

@jeneps: Clinton surrogates edging into Arizona: Sanders on Tuesday in Flagstaff and Tucson, Chelsea on Wednesday in Tempe. Kaine doing media there.
posted by chris24 at 7:59 PM on October 16, 2016 [7 favorites]


And sorry, everyone has to pay taxes, no exceptions for the police or their families. Even churches should pay taxes in a just world, no blanket exceptions for anyone.

The right-to-work amendment can fuck right off, but I don't have a problem giving a tax break to someone whose spouse died serving the community.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:59 PM on October 16, 2016 [6 favorites]


In my less clear headed moments I wonder if Trump's rise and fall this election season was orchestrated by Rupert Murdoch and his kids as a way to punish Bannon, Trump and Ailes for their plans to setup a competing Trump TV Network against Fox News. Build the Trumptanic, get your competitors to join the maiden voyage and then ram that fucker into an iceberg. Then provide the lifeboat and see who wants to drown with Trump or live with Murdoch.
posted by humanfont at 8:01 PM on October 16, 2016 [6 favorites]


To a moron who thinks he's so smart he doesn't need to study, seeing a hard working student that he's decided is dumb studying and thus acing a test looks like cheating. Trump doesn't understand how elections work. He certainly doesn't understand how, for example, debates work. He mocked the very idea that Clinton was preparing. It is the laziest imaginable sense of entitlement born of his wealth and privilege. I think he genuinely believes that the majority of the country backs him because he's bad at estimating crowd sizes vis a vis the country's population - that's what a stupid person would do. I think he genuinely believes he did better at the debates - because that's what a stupid person would do. And I genuinely believe he thinks that the election is being stolen because where we see polls that show evidence he's losing, he sees the media manufacturing data contradicting what he believes to be true - because, well, he's dumb. Trump's Razor is a pretty accurate guide to how this is going down. I also think it points to how he'll respond when he does lose - imagine the dumbest possible things and that's what he'll do. The pattern suggests angry tweets for the rest of his life, insulting everyone including his supporters, filling dozens of lawsuits and saying more stupid shit. Election day is not the last we'll hear of him because he's too dumb to know when to quit.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:01 PM on October 16, 2016 [94 favorites]


I received a call from my neighborhood captain asking to put out the Hillary signal to encourage people to go and volunteer. If you are interested in helping out on election day the 'Get out the vote' phase is starting now.

If you are in Pittsburgh GOTV training is happening tomorrow at Bakery Square at 7-8:30pm.
posted by Alison at 8:02 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


Joy giving Egg McMuffin some love.

@JoyAnnReid: Whatever happens November 8th, this gentleman has earned a second look, IMHO.

...in response to and quoting...

@Evan_McMullin: The reality is that @realDonaldTrump is beating himself. He has been an absolutely horrendous candidate. He has no business being POTUS.
posted by chris24 at 8:06 PM on October 16, 2016 [10 favorites]


Clinton surrogates edging into Arizona: Sanders on Tuesday in Flagstaff and Tucson, Chelsea on Wednesday in Tempe. Kaine doing media there.

There's a sense of "why not?" in that scheduling. New Mexico and Colorado look okay, California's a "weigh the votes" state, Chelsea's going to be in Vegas on Wednesday night. Early voting in NC begins on Thursday, so Kaine's doing two days of rallies there, and most of the top-tier surrogates have been in Nevada over the past week. West-coast swings are expensive time-wise in terms of competitive EVs, and the private polling after the final debate will determine the value of heading back in the final days. (I expect POTUS will have an Atlanta event.)
posted by holgate at 8:19 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


As a Hillary supporter, I want to track down and turn in the NC firebombers while yelling at them all the while what a useless turd they are, and how they have harmed America.

This is pretty much what separates us from Trump. We believe in elections, we believe in our fellow Americans, we believe in America itself, and you can take your terrorist claptrap and SHOVE IT. Not in MY name, you didn't, fool! You are useless and worthless and my dying wish will be for you to see yourself as I do, even if only for an instant. Treasonous curs. We are beating him at the ballot box! We are! Why did you go and do something so unAmerican? Even if we were losing, it's still no excuse!

I'm with her, not with the firebombers. They suck. She rocks.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:20 PM on October 16, 2016 [31 favorites]


The right-to-work amendment can fuck right off, but I don't have a problem giving a tax break to someone whose spouse died serving the community.

And it's not even a guarantee. First the county or city has to enact a law to do so. And then the survivor has to a) only have one home and b) not get remarried.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 8:24 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


I like to think that's true, Slap*Happy, but if Trump were ahead in the polls instead of behind do you think everyone in these threads would be ready to accept the legitimacy of a Trump presidency? I'm not so sure.
posted by Justinian at 8:24 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


Maybe Evan McMullin should try running for something lower-level first. While driving around today, I heard some interview with him going on NPR, and turned it off. The campaigning has been going on for a year-and-a-half. Cover some other news if you're stooping to cover some virtual uknown entrant, less than a month before the election. I turned that off, because it bugged the shit out of me. (And I'd already heard the annoying First Baptist of Dallas pastor going on earlier, on the same show, about how evangelicals voting for Trump wouldn't be endorsing his lifestyle, Reagan had been divorced and evangelicals voted for... argh. Turned that off too).
posted by raysmj at 8:25 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


I don't have a problem giving a tax break to someone whose spouse died serving the community.

Sure, given them an insurance payout. But make it for all partners/children, not just the legally married ones. Also, from my experience in my state, I think (a) the budget consequences to losing any part of the tax base in perpetuity are problematic and (b) this minimally discourages young widow/widowers from remarrying (similar to the elderly who don't marry for tax reasons) and (c) where does it end? There are many who die in service of others and their survivors are still expected to pay taxes.
posted by beaning at 8:25 PM on October 16, 2016 [20 favorites]


Same pastor I wrote about above had referred to Trump as "resilient" in the wake of groping charges. Ugh. Make it stop.
posted by raysmj at 8:25 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


do you think everyone in these threads would be ready to accept the legitimacy of a Trump presidency? I'm not so sure.

I do in that case, although I for one would be upset about it and disappointed in my fellow Americans. The trickier one would be if Trump goes in down in the polls by 1-2% and somehow wins a squeaker, with some "inconsistencies" with the vote counting.
posted by ctmf at 8:27 PM on October 16, 2016 [3 favorites]


...referred to Trump as "resilient" in the wake of groping charges.
He's "standing erect" (my abject apologies for all mental pictures).
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:28 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


I like to think that's true, Slap*Happy, but if Trump were ahead in the polls instead of behind do you think everyone in these threads would be ready to accept the legitimacy of a Trump presidency?

Bush straight out stole the presidency with the Brooks Brothers Riot. He just did. Beyond that, Al Gore legit had the popular vote sewn up!

George W. Bush was still the President of the United States of America to me, as the Rule of Law fucking means something.

It's absolutely horrifying that people on the other side of the aisle do not agree when it suits them.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:30 PM on October 16, 2016 [43 favorites]


Roger Stone coordinated the Brooks Brothers riot.

Time is a circle.
posted by Yowser at 8:33 PM on October 16, 2016 [10 favorites]


Trump will likely do what Sarah Palin did; give lectures, go on Fox news, and milk his wild accusations. Narcissists love attention and the Confederate flag crowd will embrace him.
posted by theora55 at 8:37 PM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


Err, never mind, I'm pretty sure Roger Stone just lied about organising that riot.
posted by Yowser at 8:37 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


New Lake Research Partners survey from Alaska.

Clinton 36%
Trump 37 %
Johnson 7%
Stein 3%
posted by longtime_lurker at 8:40 PM on October 16, 2016 [17 favorites]


Wasn't it Nixon who claimed the support of a silent majority?
Not really the best example to point to. Republican rage over shenanigans in Cook County have fueled their disenfranchisement efforts for decades. Three people went to jail over the 1960 election. The stuff that happened probably didn't truly swing the election but it has had a huge impact on how the conservative establishment views elections to this day.
posted by xyzzy at 8:42 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


...referred to Trump as "resilient" in the wake of groping charges.

Isn't this always how apologists describe white boys charged with sexual assault? "That poor boy, so brave in the face of being held responsible for sexual assault. " fuck the patriarchy.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:43 PM on October 16, 2016 [11 favorites]


Maybe Evan McMullin should try running for something lower-level first.

Orrin Hatch is up for re-election in 2018. He'll be 84. Whatever happens to Utah in the presidential election will probably weigh heavily on the GOP if the polls are borne out, and whatever happens with control of the Senate will surely influence Hatch.

On preview: if Team Clinton sent a highish-level surrogate to Alaska, just for shits and giggles, it might be worth it just for the coverage more than the 3 EVs. (Who to send, though? Bernie and Warren don't fit. Kaine's booked in for early-voting stuff on the east coast. Maybe Bill or Biden?)

What do you suppose would happen if we, in the name of those oppressed, attempt violence on a society which, in our hypothetical situation, mostly favored our opponent for President?

The stakes are slightly different, I think, in that a Trump victory would likely be perceived as open season for deplorables on minorities, just as the Brexit vote was seen as validation for open aggressive racism. If we're going to hypothesise, I think there'd be civil disobedience and resistance to any of that shit.
posted by holgate at 8:54 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


John Oliver did a piece tonight on third party candidates. Stein and Johnson were legitimately savaged.

No mention of Egg, but I did learn of the existence of candidate Joe Exotic.
posted by zakur at 8:58 PM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


Maybe Bill or Biden?

Michelle?
posted by ctmf at 8:59 PM on October 16, 2016


The Democratic party held a fundraiser to try to get that GOP office back up and running. It's already surpassed its goal and is no longer taking donations.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 9:01 PM on October 16, 2016 [5 favorites]


Can Silicon Valley disrupt the Resistance market? I'd like a convenient bat-phone app that lets everyone know when A Line has been crossed, that its all coming to a head, and that the actions of The Resistance will be OK'd by future thinkers as being taken at the right time.

Don't know if I'd be willing to pay a subscription fee, probably would give it access to my gmail though if they asked nicely.
posted by Slackermagee at 9:02 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Ivanka may have wisely gone in to business for herself, but that brand could be tarnished as well.

I think she has an econ degree from an Ivy League school, so if nothing else, she could just go work for a hedge fund or something. Frankly, I've never really understood why she'd want to be a reality TV darling/vanity brand spokesperson when she seems to have both the qualifications and head on her shoulders to do something real.
posted by Sara C. at 9:09 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


Michelle?

Not for 3 EVs. Another option for Georgia (16 EVs), not for Alaska.

Maybe Bernie, then. He won the caucus there by an 80-20 landslide, even though he never visited the state during the primary campaign. (Jane Sanders went to Anchorage.) And Cruz won the GOP caucus, a few points ahead of Trump.
posted by holgate at 9:09 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


I loathe Trump, but I have two tickets to tomorrow's rally in Green Bay and plan to attend.* I'm a little uneasy about whether it's possible to just sit quietly and listen/observe and maybe live tweet it. If I'm not cheering or swooning or wearing "appropriate" mufti,** will I stand out so badly that I attract negative attention? The doors open at 3:00 but the event starts at 6:00 and my goal is to arrive in time to see the speakers, but not hang out indefinitely breathing in the noxious fumes.

*I invited a Republican neighbor who hasn't yet, to my knowledge, decided how to vote. She hates HRC, finds Trump appalling and deems Johnson clueless (Egg is a write-in candidate here). Whereas I am attending to see the Trump culture up close, she said today that she thinks it will be "a hoot," which worries me. I am trying to impress upon her that it may be dangerous.

** On further reflection, I think I will wear a Packers shirt, which is always appropriate attire.
posted by carmicha at 9:16 PM on October 16, 2016 [12 favorites]


Alt-right redpilled personal ad.

It'd be hilarious if he weren't serious.
posted by Talez at 9:17 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


> It'd be hilarious if he weren't serious

Is it real?
posted by The corpse in the library at 9:29 PM on October 16, 2016


We've reached the point where people need to include [real] or [fake] tags in their personal ads.

This fuckin' year.
posted by ckape at 9:33 PM on October 16, 2016 [7 favorites]


It seems like an obvious parody to me.
posted by EarBucket at 9:41 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


It seems like an obvious parody to me.

The Trump campaign?
posted by one_bean at 9:49 PM on October 16, 2016 [12 favorites]


Lexica: That Arizona Republic piece is powerful and worth reading in full.
Mi-Ai Parrish (the author, president of the AZ Republic) spoke at our convocation last spring, and it was one of the best graduation speeches I've ever heard. And I've heard a lot.

I canvassed for four hours today, on a lovely but very warm morning-into-afternoon. One reason it took so long was because I was with another woman, and she insisted on having long conversations with everyone even the least bit welcoming. She is very knowledgeable about our local candidates, which was useful, but... yeesh. Not everyone wants information about the county corporate commissioner thrust at them by a stranger on a Sunday morning.

I don't know that I'd feel entirely comfortable knocking on doors by myself, but I sure did wish for a more efficient companion. (She was a lovely person, I should add. Just, uh, overeager to share information, and not as interested as I was in asking questions about whether voters had received their early ballots, voting plans, etc., which was ostensibly our purpose.)
posted by Superplin at 9:49 PM on October 16, 2016 [11 favorites]


"I don't know that I'd feel entirely comfortable knocking on doors by myself, but I sure did wish for a more efficient companion."

One way to do it is opposite sides of the street and meet at the end of the block. That way if one of you is faster (or has a lot more people home) you can come back down their side until you meet and it's more efficient -- but you still have a partner right across the street.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:55 PM on October 16, 2016 [22 favorites]


President Obama, a few days ago at Carnegie Mellon, takes on engineer's disease and what he tells tech company CEOs who tell him how much better they could run things:
The final thing I’ll say is that government will never run the way Silicon Valley runs because, by definition, democracy is messy. This is a big, diverse country with a lot of interests and a lot of disparate points of view. And part of government’s job, by the way, is dealing with problems that nobody else wants to deal with.

So sometimes I talk to CEOs, they come in and they start telling me about leadership, and here’s how we do things. And I say, well, if all I was doing was making a widget or producing an app, and I didn’t have to worry about whether poor people could afford the widget, or I didn’t have to worry about whether the app had some unintended consequences -- setting aside my Syria and Yemen portfolio -- then I think those suggestions are terrific. (Laughter and applause.) That's not, by the way, to say that there aren't huge efficiencies and improvements that have to be made.

But the reason I say this is sometimes we get, I think, in the scientific community, the tech community, the entrepreneurial community, the sense of we just have to blow up the system, or create this parallel society and culture because government is inherently wrecked. No, it's not inherently wrecked; it's just government has to care for, for example, veterans who come home. That's not on your balance sheet, that's on our collective balance sheet, because we have a sacred duty to take care of those veterans. And that's hard and it's messy, and we're building up legacy systems that we can't just blow up.
posted by zachlipton at 9:58 PM on October 16, 2016 [206 favorites]




As a Carnegie Mellon employee who hopes to never have to work for one of those Silicon Valley companies... Holy fuck, I hope Obama's wisdom rubs off on Hillary and whoever she picks for her cabinet.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:06 PM on October 16, 2016 [18 favorites]


There are a lot of people in my Twitter feed objecting to the Gofundme for the GOP. They see it as basically funding the people behind the anti-trans bathroom law, for example. The property destroyed was undoubtedly insured. This is a state where the GOP has proven willing to engage in ethically dubious cuts to early voting, so you can kind of wonder, what will this money be enabling them to do?

I think it was a net positive. It shows this wouldn't be an effective way to sabotage the GOP's abilities, so it could help dissuade imitators. But I can empathize with the sentiment of those objecting.
posted by RobotHero at 10:08 PM on October 16, 2016 [10 favorites]


It demonstrates the Democrats' desire for safe and legitimate elections. Which the Democrats need in order to do things like shut down anti-trans bathroom law.
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:13 PM on October 16, 2016 [64 favorites]


Interesting theory that (sort of) explains what Trump is doing. [beware auto-play video on page]
That same goal of “suppression of votes” is built into Trump’s attacks on President Clinton’s sex scandals.

“We’re not dependent upon millennial women for victory, right? She is,” the source said of Hillary Clinton. “It’s important for us to suppress the millennial vote for her.”
We're all bored of the nothing burgers that were put to rest decades ago. Millennials don't remember that. He wants to make Clinton part of the corrupt machine that was so successful with young people for Sanders to rail against.
posted by ctmf at 10:13 PM on October 16, 2016 [2 favorites]


(Well maybe not "nothing burgers", but still.)
posted by ctmf at 10:17 PM on October 16, 2016


I'm seeing the same objections to the Gofundme on Twitter, too.

It's reasonable not to donate to that Gofundme. I get it. Complaining about other people showing charity and goodwill toward political opponents who've suffered an act of violence is not a good look. Even when those opponents champion causes that hurt people.

You wanna take a pass? Fine. Totally fine. No reason to think less of you. Calling out your political allies who decide to chip in after an act of violence? That is not the way to go high while your opponents are going low.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:23 PM on October 16, 2016 [49 favorites]


Funding the GOP is embarrassing, don't do that. Thoughts and prayers, sympathy, fine. But come on y'all those people are not running damn cookie shop. This isn't a high school debate club rivalry, they will take that money and use it to disenfranchise voters and pass more bathroom laws. There's no reason in the world to give them money other than performative "look at me I'm so fair" pretension. Sheesh.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:25 PM on October 16, 2016 [16 favorites]


If there's any time to unequivocally go high, it's when people attack our system of elections and threaten the peaceful transition of power. I don't think anyone is losing anything by being decent about this.
posted by polyhedron at 10:27 PM on October 16, 2016 [101 favorites]


The bottom line is that polls show that millennial women (especially college educated millennial women) are supporting Clinton and not wavering.

I think that any general Republican candidate -- especially a somewhat moderate one -- could have used Bill's sex scandals, especially the idea that Hillary abetted him or worked to discredit his accusers, to put questions in the minds of millennial women, who by and large are big fans of consent and believing women where accusations of sexual assault are concerned.

On the other hand, coming from Trump, who has piles of accusations himself? That's rich, and looking at both polls and anecdata, it's simply not working.
posted by Sara C. at 10:27 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]




I don't have a problem giving a tax break to someone whose spouse died serving the community.

I have problems giving tax breaks to some people whose spouses died serving the community, but not others. I'd want it to include spouses of firefighters as well, and possibly other roles. (I don't think of garbage collector as a job where one puts one's life on the line, but hey, if one of them died on duty, the city should acknowledge that that person died serving the community.)

It also sounded like it gives an incentive not to remarry, which is definitely problematic.

I really don't like the idea of sending a message to cops, "it's okay to allow situations to escalate into violence; after all, if the worst happens, your spouse is covered." I want strong incentives to avoid violence, not systems that reward foolish bravado as much as they reward being the target of malice.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:29 PM on October 16, 2016 [8 favorites]


and what he tells tech company CEOs who tell him how much better they could run things:

It reminded me a lot of the threads here on civic digital work, and made me seek out my own comment back in 2013 about how public-sector digital stuff was hard because government services by definition end up engaging with edge cases. You wouldn't need to have those interactions with government if you're working out which online delivery service will send a fancy meal to your startup office. That's why I love the work of people like James Bridle and Ingrid Burrington on the physical and human stuff behind the digital stuff.

On that note, Hillary's ambivalence towards social media's loose bonds -- where selfie-driven interactions takes precedence over scribbled notes -- reminds me a lot of danah boyd's early research on "friends versus Friendsters".
posted by holgate at 10:30 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


How many bathroom bills are they going to buy with $13k? I don't feel like that's a great reason to shit on people donating.
posted by ryanrs at 10:32 PM on October 16, 2016 [13 favorites]


Thoughts and prayers, sympathy, fine. But come on y'all those people are not running damn cookie shop. This isn't a high school debate club rivalry, they will take that money and use it to disenfranchise voters and pass more bathroom laws.

The Democrats may get more votes this way than they would get by doing nothing.
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:36 PM on October 16, 2016 [11 favorites]


I don't want to shit on anyone. Do what you think is right. I have the right to say, in chorus with others, that I think it is both morally wrong AND tactically backwards to donate to the GOP in any form, especially if you specifically do not agree with any of their platform.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:36 PM on October 16, 2016 [7 favorites]


If this list is to be believed, you actually are more likely to die on the job as a garbage collector (#5) than as a police officer. (#15)
posted by RobotHero at 10:40 PM on October 16, 2016 [45 favorites]


The Democrats may get more votes this way than they would get by doing nothing.

Sorry but this makes no sense at all to me. Where is the evdidence that any independents anywhere care about this ? There is no proof anyone is looking at this and making a voting choice. Meanwhile that xx,0000 could be used to GOTV or to pay volunteers in swing states or hell it could go to a charity that could keep people in NC safe from violence. Again, if you donate I still think you're nice and will cheers you when HRC wins in November. But this was an irrational and shortsighted action.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:41 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


I don't want to shit on anyone. Do what you think is right. I have the right to say, in chorus with others, that I think it is both morally wrong AND tactically backwards to donate to the GOP in any form, especially if you specifically do not agree with any of their platform.

I get the desire to avoid funding the opponent, but does it change anything to think of it as a directed donation to the Democratic Party's comms budget? It's an effort to turn a negative story into positive earned media.
posted by dersins at 10:44 PM on October 16, 2016 [24 favorites]


But this was an irrational and shortsighted action.

I think its important for people to repudiate political acts of violence and terror. Democrats donating to repair damage caused by this aren't justifying what the NC GOP have been doing, they're repudiating an act of firebombing the office. I don't think it's irrational to do such a thing, especially this year.
posted by airish at 10:50 PM on October 16, 2016 [73 favorites]




I'm a little uneasy about whether it's possible to just sit quietly and listen/observe and maybe live tweet it.

I think you may want to loudly, before the cheering starts, say something like "I can't believe I got in! My friend is begging me to tell her EVERYTHING he says!" This way you fiddling with your phone looks excited instead of bored and nervous.
posted by corb at 10:52 PM on October 16, 2016 [11 favorites]


I think that's why it's particularly infuriating dersins. The NC GOP is actively causing lots of horrible damage in their state. If the Democrats want a positive story they can do something positive for the people of North Carolina. Instead they did the easiest possible thing and raised money for the assholes that got bombed by the other assholes.

Meanwhile it cannot POSSIBLY affect anyone who believes Democrats as a whole had anything to do with this bombing. "Democrats firebombed us but it's ok they did a paypal for sorry". Not gonna happen.

And finally we have no idea who did this, but they certainly don't represent the majority of Democratic supporters who are to a fault non-violent. We don't have to do a PR stunt to prove it, we can just continue to not punch people at rallies and not carry guns everywhere and defend sexual assaults.

Totally get the impulse to prove that we aren't like those nuts who did this violent thing.
But a. This doesn't do that. And b. It's disrespectful to our comrades down in NC who are fighting for good shit and need funds way more.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:57 PM on October 16, 2016 [9 favorites]


Calling out your political allies who decide to chip in after an act of violence? That is not the way to go high while your opponents are going low.

I don't think funding wannabe strongmen is going high, sorry.
posted by Bookhouse at 10:59 PM on October 16, 2016 [12 favorites]


On the other hand, coming from Trump, who has piles of accusations himself? That's rich, and looking at both polls and anecdata, it's simply not working.

I think the idea is to suck her down into the mud with him, so young people fall for the "both sides, fuck it" temptation. He's dumb, but not dumb enough to think that vote's going his way.
posted by ctmf at 11:04 PM on October 16, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think that this subsubject may also be one of the things metafilter cannot do well at the moment, along with speculation regarding the motives of the arsonists.
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:07 PM on October 16, 2016 [16 favorites]


The idea seems to me to be to differentiate the Democrats from Trump and his calls to effectively destroy the constitution. Helping replace one GOP office isn't going to change the election by itself, but the message is itself meaningful.
posted by gusottertrout at 11:08 PM on October 16, 2016 [22 favorites]


 I have the right to say, in chorus with others, that I think it is both morally wrong AND tactically backwards to donate to the GOP in any form

There's been major angry pushback on Twitter to the Dems-donate-to-the-NCGOP thing, with many folks noting that it's easier to donate if you're in a position of privilege with regard to racial and/or gender discrimination. The most angry and detailed critique so far has been this one: Liberals For Trump.

It's quite scathing, and worth the read if you have conflicted feelings about the donation campaign. It calls the move "antithetical to any notion of solidarity with the numerous victims of reactionary and oppressive public policy in North Carolina" and notes it's a liberal from Massachusetts who started the campaign to help get a GOP field office up and running again in North Carolina.

Of course the violence is a horrible escalation that will do nothing but harm the country, and of course the impulse to help one's neighbors is often a noble one, but the critique of this particular strategy that Potomac Avenue mentions above - "morally wrong and tactically backwards" has weight, I think (probably because I live here and see the massive effort to erase my existence and that of my friends.

Anyway, worth a read.
posted by mediareport at 11:14 PM on October 16, 2016 [9 favorites]


Giving money to the GOP is "antithetical to any notion of solidarity with the numerous victims of reactionary and oppressive public policy in North Carolina" including POC, LGBTQ folk, women, students, workers, and "moral Monday" protesters who have been jailed.

"In less than one hour, the fundraiser managed to net over $13,000 so that Donald Trump and his supporters in the U.S. Senate, Governor’s Mansion, Council of State, General Assembly, and the state judicial system can get right back to the work of winning elections and further destroying labor rights, anti-discrimination laws, and women’s agency in the state."

edit: looks like mediareport just posted this above me, either way fuck the NC GOP, glad no one was hurt, but the same can't be said for the victims of the NCGOP
posted by R.F.Simpson at 11:15 PM on October 16, 2016 [10 favorites]


Many folks on Black Twitter right now are...let's say highly scornful about attempts to use the "when they go low we go high" thing to justify donating money to the GOP. Again, the point is this particular strategy of "going high" is rubbing many of the folks directly affected by the NC GOP the wrong way.
posted by mediareport at 11:19 PM on October 16, 2016 [16 favorites]


@onlxn raised $110,000 from his Twitter followers ("give more than Trump") for the American Refugee Committee and RAINN in something like two days. Maybe a similar effort to donate more than was raised for the NC GOP for the NC NAACP (Rev. Barber) or another appropriate local cause would be appropriate?
posted by zachlipton at 11:29 PM on October 16, 2016 [20 favorites]


We'll have to disagree then. It was a deplorable act of violence, and there's no time machine to stop it from happening, but one thing we can do to make that act of violence not count and pretend it never happened, is to give a small, group-funded, sum of money in order to help replace what was lost, as a collective middle finger at those that would participate in violence.

I'm assuming they're covered by insurance, but the attackers hopefully assumed that too, but still attacked to "send a message".

People donated to this because this is important to them. Nnot for some gimmicky PR move, but to say violence isn't acceptable, by any side, and that in a functional two-party democratic system, both parties are able to field what game they can, but which that isn't subject to outside interference (Russian hackers or firebombs). This doesn't excuse some of the horrible shit I assume they've done, but if the GOP loses in North Carolina because they didn't have an office (and not because of the candidate), then we're effectively saying firebombing offices is an okay way to win elections (by way of a Layer 1 DOS), and I'm not okay with that.
posted by fragmede at 11:30 PM on October 16, 2016 [62 favorites]


but the message is itself meaningful

The message cuts both ways, though. Are liberals who donate failing to honor the experiences of those whose race/voting rights/gender are under sustained, direct attack? Is it possible that folks who donate are doing so from a position where they are relatively protected from the worst effects of NC GOP aggression, and can see politics as - perhaps - a bit more of a game? What exactly are "the messages" being received by young trans kids in NC when they see liberals from other states donating to more quickly rebuild a GOP field office before we know what happened? Sure, "be gracious and generous when someone's in need" could be a good one, as could "See? we're better than them," I suppose. But so could "Your issues and your life mean less than scoring political points, or middle class notions of fairness."

It's a discussion worth having.
posted by mediareport at 11:32 PM on October 16, 2016 [16 favorites]


The gofundme totally takes the air out of a possible false flag operation's immediate media traction.

I agree, the effect is that the evil asshole agenda gets a funding boost from the human decency party. That sucks, but it might be worth it for the battened hatches right now.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 11:36 PM on October 16, 2016 [27 favorites]


From the WaPo article linked above, "As Trump stumbles, Clinton weighs a striking choice: Expand the map or stick to the plan":

We’re still playing a very active role in these states and obviously making as big of a play as possible,” said Trump spokesman Jason Miller. “There isn’t anything that’s not a priority."

Say it with me, "Jason Miller" - when everything is a priority, nothing is.
(Sounds about right, actually.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:38 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


This is a case of rich liberals with disposable income prioritizing the (imagined) niceties of "bipartisanship" over the political control and destruction of POC, LGBT, and female bodies.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 11:39 PM on October 16, 2016 [15 favorites]


Or cutthroat gamesmanship and doing what it takes to win, however distasteful.
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:41 PM on October 16, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'm disgusted with whoever carried out this bombing and I hope they are swiftly brought to justice. Even in the face of the tantrum of evil the GOP is currently engaged in, that last thing I want to see anything that feeds into their fantasies of being under attack. The donation is a good turn and it is good politics. As American political parties, we're allegedly on the same side. Right now one of them would rather tear the country down than share it. I have a difficult time keeping my anger with Trump and his voters held firmly in my teeth, which is why I was glad to see that fundraising campaign succeed so swiftly. Some Republican voters want a war, and we must refuse to give it to them. This kindness is a reminder that we're all supposed to be in this election to win an argument, not to fight a war.

My cynical read is that this works as a check against the UNDER SIEGE narrative that so many right wing voters are susceptible to. My pollyanna read is that this works as an gesture of faith and fellowship with countrymen who have suffered a setback. It's good politics because it's a narrative-defying kindness that it would shame the right to turn their noses up at. If this breaks the circuit for anyone on the fence, if this is how a few more voters talk themselves of redpilling out of objective reality, I'd consider it $10,000 well spent.
posted by EatTheWeek at 11:46 PM on October 16, 2016 [68 favorites]


This may also be a case of preemptively countering the they-did-it-first justifications of the inevitable spasms of trumpist violence. If the good side not only says but shows that they abhor all political violence, then the assholes get less traction and fewer people get killed.

It's absolutely repulsive that the GOP should get money to pursue their evil aims. At the same time, it may save lives. It really sucks. The times we're living in.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 11:55 PM on October 16, 2016 [45 favorites]


I have no idea about the damage done to the office, or even how large the office is, but I'm guessing $10,000 isn't enough to refurbish or renovate a regular office space that's 100sqm in size. At best, this is a token amount to say violence is to be condoned, regardless of how abhorrent the other party is.
posted by the cydonian at 11:59 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]


If the good side not only says but shows that they abhor all political violence, then the assholes get less traction and fewer people get killed.

There is 0.0000% chance that someone on the right will look at this donation and go "oh chill they donated guess I won't start murdering everyone." They probably won't even hear about it because they only watch Fox. EVEN IF IT TURNS OUT THAT A RIGHT WINGER ACTUALLY DID THIS THEY WONT BELIEVE IT AND WILL STILL COMMIT VIOLENCE AGAINST ok sorry wasn't going to shout. Back to bed.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:00 AM on October 17, 2016 [19 favorites]


Yeah, that section of what I wrote was a little glossy. But I do think that neutralizing the "they-did-it-first" media narrative may produce dividends down the road that amount to more, on balance, than $10,000 in the hands of these GOP burnouts.

I don't like it at all.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 12:07 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


I have feelings about this but I'm not sure what they are.

I guess I have to defer to the local wisdom of the Democratic apparatus on the ground in NC. If they think this is a good idea, then...

ugh. I dunno. My main feeling is, I wish we lived in a better world where we don't feel like we have to placate abusers.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:43 AM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


I feel like I should be keeping a list of all the things Trump has said are going to be released in the future - like evidence against his accusers or tax returns or the one surprising fact that will sink Clinton. I've lost track.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:46 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


keeping a list of all the things Trump has said are going to be released

Why? He's just a child flinging his peas on the floor now. Sure you can count the peas, but that's not the game and it means nothing.

The real game is control of Congress. If Dems don't win back the House this year, our only chance is for the courts to issue strict anti-gerrymandering rulings so there's not another decade of undemocratic district lines. I still can't believe that Republicans will probably hold the House easily even if they lose the nationwide congressional vote by three or four points.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:17 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Or more specifically, I believe it (because it's true) but I can't believe that people aren't generally furious about it.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:22 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


I don't think of garbage collector as a job where one puts one's life on the line, but hey, if one of them died on duty, the city should acknowledge that that person died serving the community.)

Since I personally know a garbage collector who died on the job recently...yeah, it happens.
posted by threeturtles at 1:22 AM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


I feel like I should be keeping a list of all the things Trump has said are going to be released in the future - like evidence against his accusers or tax returns or the one surprising fact that will sink Clinton. I've lost track.

Aren't we still expecting a couple big media stories or oppo dumps against Trump?

Probably involving one or two of the 4056 lawsuits against him.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:29 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


One of the Clinton Campaign's core messages is "Stronger Together", the opposite of Trump's messaging.

Now she has a clear example of "Americans are Stronger Together". The optics are incredible.

We still have to GOTV. But as long as everyone shows up and casts their ballot this race is over, and the donation tactically useless for the Republicans.
posted by mikelieman at 1:31 AM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


Tactically useless for the Republicans, sure; but as indicated above, also a signal that showing solidarity with a party that's demonstrating remarkable, uh, restraint in the exhibition of loyal opposition is more valuable than showing solidarity with victims of ongoing oppression.

It may be the right thing to do, but I don't think the optics are great. Or if they are, we need a new prescription.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:37 AM on October 17, 2016


I need to work on my rhetorical [shade] skills.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:44 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


my irony receptors shut down several Threads ago so I'm just filtering everything literally now, sorry about that
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:46 AM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


I guess I have to defer to the local wisdom of the Democratic apparatus on the ground in NC. If they think this is a good idea, then...

Acts of compassion in the wake of violence is what my own spiritual path teaches. The compassion itself is what makes it right, and what it means to be compassionate is what it means to be an enlightened human being. It would be an error to wish for misfortune on those who are suffering. It wouldn't help anyone. It also would be a grave misstep on the path I have chosen to walk. I want to be able to sleep at night. So does everyone else.

I also plan on going to my zendo tomorrow, and I don't want to face my Zen teacher in the dokusan room and see the look on his face if I were to tell him I had no compassion for those people. This is a man who talks about saving an ant who bit him in his sleeping bag on a camping trip.
posted by krinklyfig at 1:50 AM on October 17, 2016 [44 favorites]


No need to be sorry - its on me to be more clear especially after such a grueling election season.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:50 AM on October 17, 2016


Acts of compassion in the wake of violence is what my own spiritual path teaches.

And so does mine. But also, it asks: compassion toward whom? How broadly is violence defined, and who gets to define it?
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:01 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


And so does mine. But also, it asks: compassion toward whom?
Buddhism doesn't really ask that question. It's merely concern for other living beings, whether they're torturers or infants or spiders.
posted by xyzzy at 2:11 AM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


Also, the gofundme results may mean there's less chance of 'retaliatory' attacks on Democrat people and spaces.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:16 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


And so does mine. But also, it asks: compassion toward whom? How broadly is violence defined, and who gets to define it?

All living beings.

Suffering is what is really the issue. Violence is one way of inflicting it upon others.
posted by krinklyfig at 2:27 AM on October 17, 2016 [12 favorites]


I don't want to derail the discussion. But I do want to say that there are reasons for supporting our fellow human beings which transcend political parties and campaigns, and in the end, that is what motivates me.
posted by krinklyfig at 2:36 AM on October 17, 2016 [14 favorites]


NPR has a piece on the candidates charities this morning
There's Really No Comparison Between The Trump And Clinton Foundations
All this leads Noble at the Campaign Legal Center to ask whether Trump is really as generous as he claims to be. "It looks like he's trying to appear that he's very charitable," Noble said. "But if you pull back the curtain, it's grayer than that. It fits into a narrative of him using the charity for purposes of self-promotion."
posted by tilde at 3:22 AM on October 17, 2016 [14 favorites]


If I might make a Gatsby metaphor regarding Trump and charity, it's like he has bookshelves full of books but the pages are all uncut.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:31 AM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


Trump probably chooses what books to display based on the color of their spines. Imagine!
posted by Justinian at 3:35 AM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]


I condemn this act of political terrorism, whatever the source proves to be. And I won't nitpick anyone's sincere efforts to offer help.
posted by kyrademon at 3:37 AM on October 17, 2016 [21 favorites]




Favorability among Latino voters:

Trump
Fav 13
Unfav 80
NET -67

Clinton
Fav 59
Unfav 28
NET -31

—NBC/WSJ/Telemundo Latino oversample
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:54 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Clinton
Fav 59
Unfav 28
NET -31


As pointed out in lots of responses to that tweet, that should really be Clinton +31.
posted by peacheater at 4:56 AM on October 17, 2016 [21 favorites]


As pointed out by a couple of thousand people on Twitter, 59−28 = +31.
posted by effbot at 4:57 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


Donald Trump, the Worst of America (NYT): Trump now looks like a madman from Mad Men, a throwback to when his particular privileges had more perks and were considered less repugnant. He looks pathetic.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:02 AM on October 17, 2016 [17 favorites]


Not only Trump though. He's damaged the GOP with Hispanics as well.

@gdebenedetti: Favorability ratings among Hispanics (NBC/WSJ/Telemundo):

MObama +62
BObama +48
HClinton +31
Dems +31
Kaine +13
Pence -6
GOP -41
Trump -67
posted by chris24 at 5:23 AM on October 17, 2016 [23 favorites]


Trump seems to be going after Uncle Joe as a predator today as well. Happy Monday.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:25 AM on October 17, 2016


Kaine is only +13?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:25 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


Trump may be damaging the GOP's reputation, but, according to USA Today, he isn't driving higher registration numbers.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:27 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Kaine is only +13?
He has a lot less visibility than the people with higher favorability ratings than him. My hunch is that a lot of people said that they had no opinion of him.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:33 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


As a Carnegie Mellon employee who hopes to never have to work for one of those Silicon Valley companies... Holy fuck, I hope Obama's wisdom rubs off on Hillary and whoever she picks for her cabinet.

This is one thing I've never worried about with Clinton. Obama always seemed much closer to the tech bro world (including where his alums went after leaving the White House), so it's super heartening to hear him be that explicit about it.
posted by sallybrown at 5:35 AM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


"Creepy Joe Biden"

I love a lot about Biden, but it does make me uncomfortable the way he was so quick to touch women (including women he barely knows) in a way he doesn't with men - but I think he has toned it down since it was a news blip a couple years ago, which is good. And it's not like he's going around kissing and groping people!
posted by sallybrown at 5:37 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


More on Trump's Mirror
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:38 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


@realdonaldtrump: Can't believe these totally phoney stories, 100% made up by women (many already proven false) and pushed big time by press, have impact!

'These lying women who lie' will I'm sure help him with women.
posted by chris24 at 5:39 AM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


New HRC ad.

@HillaryClinton
There are a lot of bullies in this world. The last thing we need is one in the White House.

BULLY
posted by chris24 at 5:42 AM on October 17, 2016 [34 favorites]


Among the many bizarre things happening this election cycle - I've really grown to like Donny Deutsch. He was a Professional Friend of Donald before this election and my impression is the way this has all played out has really shaken him up. He's been pushing back hard on Joe and Mika lately* and strongly emphasizing how dangerous Trump's movement is, and how he thinks it's not just going to go away after the election.

*There was a halcyon period on Morning Joe between the conventions and the Billy Bush tape where Joe and Mika seemed to align with reality, and now they're back off the tracks, really hammering the Clinton email stuff. Deutsch has been pushing back a lot (and you can tell Joe is pissed about it).
posted by sallybrown at 5:43 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump now looks like a madman from Mad Men, a throwback to when his particular privileges had more perks and were considered less repugnant.

I've wondered if DJT may have been a viable candidate back when his ideas were normal. Maybe during the McCarthy Era? But I decided it would probably be even worse for him. The "Good Ol' Days" bullshit would be meaningless since they were still actually living in his racist utopia, and all he'd have left to sell would be the same fears that others were peddling, and a lack of any governing experience or skills in forming complete sentences. Compared to the rest of the globe, the US was doing too well to just give the keys to a loudmouth outsider.
posted by p3t3 at 5:45 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


The bully ad is not new, but I'm glad they brought it back.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:47 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump is the culmination of decades upon decades of degrading politicians as inherently secretly corrupt and dishonest. Such that being openly corrupt and discriminatory is seen as an improvement. We need to fight back against both him and the idea that government is slavery and taxes are theft.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:47 AM on October 17, 2016 [21 favorites]


Since I personally know a garbage collector who died on the job recently...yeah, it happens.
Refuse and recyclable material collectors have the fifth highest rate of fatal work injuries of any occupational group in the US, after logging workers, fishers (I guess there isn't a great non-gendered way to say "people who fish for a living"), aircraft pilots and flight engineers, and roofers. Police officers don't make the top ten.

source: Bureau of Labor Statistics
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:47 AM on October 17, 2016 [24 favorites]


The day after Hillary releases the Alex Jones ad, Trump retweets someone from Infowars:

@realDonaldTrump
"@PrisonPlanet: Trump accuser praised him in an email as recently as April! This is all yet another hoax. http://dailycaller.com/2016/10/15/trump-sexual-assault-accuser-sent-glowing-email-to-his-assistant-in-april/ …" Terrible
posted by chris24 at 5:48 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


I went to bed last night after checking Twitter and I saw a bunch of angry tweets directed at Democrats donating to help rebuild the bombed NC office. Personally, that anger was more troubling to me than the donations, but I get it. It feels wrong to help people who want to do harm to other people.

Then this morning I drove to work, I was listening to a podcast about anxiety and the speaker read this quote from MLK Jr that I have heard a million times but always forget:

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

And I have to ask myself "what does light and love look like?" In this situation? It is very difficult for me to answer.

For me, I decided a donation to the NC Office matched by a donation to Planned Parenthood would be appropriate.
posted by Tevin at 5:49 AM on October 17, 2016 [95 favorites]


I tuned into the south Florida NPR station, and this piece was on. Not posted was the full text that included comments like folks preferring to vote for someone "known for lewd comments" and "a sharp tongue" over a "war criminal" )Clinton(
posted by tilde at 5:49 AM on October 17, 2016


ArbitraryAndCapricious: fishers (I guess there isn't a great non-gendered way to say "people who fish for a living")

Fisherpeople? Fisherhumen?
I've always wondered why 'women' and 'men' but not 'humen'.
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:51 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Well holy shit. Going all in. At some point Ryan is going to have to do something real besides bland statements.

@realDonaldTrump
Of course there is large scale voter fraud happening on and before election day. Why do Republican leaders deny what is going on? So naive!
posted by chris24 at 5:54 AM on October 17, 2016 [26 favorites]


Over the weekend I was watching a tournament a video game I play called "Mechwarrior Online" based on the old Battletech table-top game and older Mechwarrior games.

Now, this player base tends to skew a little older than something like "Call of Duty" or "Halo" so I see a lot less racism, homophobia, and toxic masculinity in that community than in others. But, between rounds they would give away 'mech-packs to people watching the stream. Every time a winner was picked, a bunch of 1,000+ people in the channel would all type, "RIGGED!" It came off as super sarcastic and, because this election cycle has me questioning my perception of reality constantly, I even asked about it and confirmed that it's mocking Trump.

There's a trope in gaming where every certain players die in a match (or things just generally don't go the way they'd like) they blurt out some external thing to blame (lag, hacks, n00b-weapon, etc.). Everyone knows that it's BS and plenty of other players will mock that behavior. That they've latched onto the "rigged" claim as a way to do that is, I think, a VERY bad sign for Trump. There definitely big parts of gamer culture that often make it a breeding ground for alt-right types.

I might try to encourage this trend, maybe it'll spread to other games.
posted by VTX at 5:55 AM on October 17, 2016 [29 favorites]


Gender neutral names for people who catch and sell fish:

- Fishdealers
- Fishersons
- Gillgetters
- Scale Sellers
- Glittering Fishlifters
- Ocean farmers
- Fish4golders
- Fishmongers
posted by Tevin at 5:57 AM on October 17, 2016 [41 favorites]


Of course there is large scale voter fraud happening on and before election day. Why do Republican leaders deny what is going on? So naive!

Trump just keeps throwing his surrogates under the fucking bus. "He's talking about the media rigging the election!" indeed.
posted by Talez at 5:59 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


people who catch and sell fish

Those tend to be distinct groups of people

/derail
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:01 AM on October 17, 2016 [16 favorites]


The conversation Hill has with the little girl in the Bully ad made me teary. I think that ad does a good job of showing how she listens to people.
posted by pxe2000 at 6:03 AM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


Reminder: These battleground states are governed by Republicans who run the elections in their states. Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, Georgia, Nevada, Ohio, Florida, North Carolina, Arizona, Indiana.
posted by chris24 at 6:09 AM on October 17, 2016 [14 favorites]


Fisherfolk is the term I've heard used.
posted by bardophile at 6:18 AM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


"Fisherfolk" is good, but I'm going to try as hard as I can to make "Glittering Fishlifters" happen.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:23 AM on October 17, 2016 [41 favorites]


I don't have a problem giving a tax break to someone whose spouse died serving the community.

In Illinois survivors already receive the full salary of the officer if the officer is killed on the job.
posted by srboisvert at 6:23 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Healthy democracies depend on unwritten rules. The Republican nominee has trampled all over them -- The Economist
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:24 AM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]




Where is all this evidence of voter fraud? If he knows it's happening, he needs to let the authorities know. Seems like what anyone running for office would do.

It would be nice if someone could ask him this question. Unfortunately ever since part of his 1995 taxes were published he has gone into hiding-- he no longer gives pressers and he only appears on FOX. It is shameful that a nominee for President can run from the press and face no consequences but that is where we are at in 2016. Maybe he will be asked this question by Chris Wallace at the debate but I wouldn't hold your breath.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:26 AM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]


WaPo: REVEALED: The vast international conspiracy to stop Trump, in one chart

A handy guide to the vast r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ left-wing conspiracy.
posted by chris24 at 6:26 AM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


Can't believe these totally phoney stories, 100% made up by women (many already proven false) and pushed big time by press, have impact!

I love that he didn't use a specific article like 'the women' and just went with 'women'.

It is almost as if he knows he has alienated all of them.

Go women! Save us!
posted by srboisvert at 6:29 AM on October 17, 2016 [20 favorites]


ArbitraryAndCapricious: fishers (I guess there isn't a great non-gendered way to say "people who fish for a living")

A recent academic paper on the topic, because of course.
posted by pemberkins at 6:30 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


WaPo: REVEALED: The vast international conspiracy to stop Trump, in one chart

Does it help to look at this crap? Answer: no it doesn't help to look at this crap [real].
posted by Namlit at 6:30 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


I was hoping for oppo droppo last night, to eat up news cycles ahead of the debate. Boo.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:30 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


Elizabeth Warren clucks like chicken to mock Donald Trump

I am willing to undergo surgery so I can be a surrogate parent for the love child of Elizabeth Warren and David Fahrenthold. GoFundMe details to follow.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:35 AM on October 17, 2016 [41 favorites]


Literally lighting money on fire.

Maybe he's playing the long game, and trying to show voters that trickle-down economics really does work, by channeling money from obscenely wealthy GOP donors into the pockets of small-media markets and the middle-class workers at the TV stations and

AAAHAHAHAHA I can't even finish that sentence with a straight face, I've never seen such a hilariously inept campaign in my life and I hope he loses by 20 points.
posted by Mayor West at 6:36 AM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


I was hoping for oppo droppo last night, to eat up news cycles ahead of the debate. Boo.

Trump is his own oppo. TODAY is the filing deadline for The Donald J. Trump Foundation to get right with New York State. So far, no news, but I'm waiting...
posted by mikelieman at 6:37 AM on October 17, 2016 [15 favorites]


WaPo The Daily 202: Trump has reached his ceiling, with little or no room to grow
With the help of our in-house pollster Scott Clement, I studied the 14 percent of registered voters who support neither Clinton nor Trump in the four-way poll test. This includes the 6 percent for Gary Johnson and the 3 percent for Jill Stein but also the 3 percent who volunteered to our callers that they are supporting none of the four and the 2 percent who said they have not decided yet.

Among this sub-group, 71 percent are “strongly unfavorable” to Trump versus 46 percent who say the same of Clinton. He comes fairly close to her on honesty (83 percent say Trump is not honest and trustworthy, compared to 78 percent who say the same for Clinton) and on who is best for the economy (35 percent say Trump and 32 percent say Clinton). But there is a big chasm on two questions that tend to be better predictors of vote choice: 77 percent say Trump is not qualified to be president, compared to 44 percent who say Clinton is not. And 86 percent say Trump lacks the temperament to be president, compared to 42 percent who say the same of Clinton.

This 14 percent is crucial because nearly everyone else can no longer be persuaded: 88 percent of Trump supporters and 89 percent of Clinton backers said they will “definitely” support their current preference. More than 1.4 million ballots have already been cast, and a superior Democratic ground game is locking in her advantage.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:38 AM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


(derail) "Fisherfolk" would be the name of my one-person Decemberists cover band
posted by erisfree at 6:39 AM on October 17, 2016 [24 favorites]


I've always wondered why 'women' and 'men' but not 'humen'.

Different etymology. "Human" comes ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *ǵʰmṓ (via Latin homo and humanus, and then French), while "man" and the second half of "woman" come from PIE *man- direct, through proto-Germanic and Old English. Thus "(wo)man" gets the Germanic change-the-vowels plural, while "human" gets the generic add-an-s plural.
posted by No-sword at 6:41 AM on October 17, 2016 [69 favorites]


Georgia poll: Clinton 47%, Trump 44% (YouGov)

Georgia was last blue in 1992.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:41 AM on October 17, 2016 [29 favorites]


Georgia poll: Clinton 47%, Trump 44% (YouGov)

Oh please oh please oh please oh please.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:43 AM on October 17, 2016 [24 favorites]


Scenario: You are running for President of the United States. You have hard, incontrovertible evidence of massive voter fraud that will affect the election a few weeks from now. Do you:

1) Present that evidence to the media in full, weeks in advance, so as to re-level the playing field for the election and gain much-needed credibility regarding the forces aligned against you, or

2) Tweet a bunch of angry generalities.

no, "kiss someone" is not an option, Mr. Trump, it's either 1 or 2
posted by delfin at 6:45 AM on October 17, 2016 [63 favorites]




In more positive news, a high-school acquaintance of mine now lives in Georgia, where's she's an obstetrician in an Atlanta-area hospital. I never talked politics with her, but I always assumed she and her husband were moderate Republican types. This morning, she posted a link to Michelle Obama's speech last week, with a pretty passionate plea for anyone reading to consider what the next generation of women would be faced with if a Trump presidency came to pass. The first comment, predictably, was an angry condemnation full of GOP talking points (Beyonce is lewd! Bill is a rapist! Hilary is pro-choice, and you as an OB-GYN must know how awful that is!) that I assumed would be unanswered, because who even has the mental energy to argue with these lunatics? I was wrong! A bunch of people, some with names I recognize from fifteen years ago and some without, came quickly to rebut all of his asinine talking points, and the original author posted one one of the most blistering takedowns I've ever seen on social media, essentially ending with "It's pretty rich that you think you know the first goddamned thing about my views on reproductive freedom, considering that we haven't spoken in years and we never talked about it in med school because I knew you were the kind of retrograde asshole who would say things like this." He, of course, doubled down, insisting that Satan was responsible for those words. A legion of right-minded folks tore him a new one, and he bailed from the discussion and unfriended her.

Words matter. People are responding to the horrible things Trump says and does, and it's making a difference at every level. A blue Georgia would be a wonderful sight. A blue Texas or Alaska would be even better. Let's do this.
posted by Mayor West at 6:48 AM on October 17, 2016 [129 favorites]


Genuinely curious: why is the North Carolina firebombing thing not a bigger story? I sort of expected to wake up to see it dominating the news cycle, but I just did a quick round of the front pages of CNN, NYT, WaPo, AP, and a few others and I didn't see it anywhere.

On the one hand I guess I'm sort of glad it's not bigger news insofar as it would probably be terrible for "my team" if it were, but here we have what I think is the most extravagant act of political violence so far in this very tense election cycle, and there doesn't seem to be much attention being drawn to it by the media. Why is that?

Is it just that it was only property damage, with (thankfully!) nobody hurt? Are the news orgs being uncharacteristically cautious about promoting a story about political violence in which the suspects and their motives are unknown? (I'm not 100% on board with the idea that the obvious explanation is the right one here, but I'll stay away from that derail.) Is it something else that I'm missing?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:51 AM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


Well, Mr. Stardust & I mailed our ballots today! We both went full Dem downticket, and then we taught our 3-year-old to say "Madame President."
posted by Kitty Stardust at 6:52 AM on October 17, 2016 [36 favorites]


Not to be a wet blanket, but the state by state results on that YouGov poll isn't trustworthy.
posted by peacheater at 6:52 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Trump's pushing a voter fraud message before the election is scary as hell. I'm afraid that he's not going to concede and try to drag this thing out in the courts long after Nov 8.
posted by octothorpe at 6:54 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm ready for the post-hillary-win-and-potentially-violent-period to be over.

A decisive national rebuke of the republican party is in order to send the message to trump and his supporters to "step away from the the fucking mic, unload your fucking guns, leave the fucking room".
posted by Annika Cicada at 6:55 AM on October 17, 2016 [23 favorites]


I'm afraid that he's not going to concede and try to drag this thing out in the courts long after Nov 8.

Well, he can try. Courts do tend to like things like "evidence" though. With anything except an absolute down-to-a-few-thousand-votes squeaker, he'd get laughed out of court with that.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:56 AM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


To what extent does the process require that the losing candidate voluntarily concede?
posted by Artw at 6:57 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'm afraid that he's not going to concede and try to drag this thing out in the courts long after Nov 8.

Any (every) court he tries to bring "Here's this guy who says someone told him there were buses full of people voting ten times each" to is going to dismiss with prejudice immediately. Any attempted dragging-out won't last past November 10th.
posted by Etrigan at 6:58 AM on October 17, 2016


To what extent does the process require that the losing candidate voluntarily concede?

None at all. Conceding is an acknowledgement of the outcome and an expression of respect for and faith in the process, but there isn't a legal requirement.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:00 AM on October 17, 2016 [19 favorites]


Driving in, at the top of the hour, NPR news mentioned Trumps allegations of vote rigging, and casually mentioned that they were false. Heh.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:00 AM on October 17, 2016 [13 favorites]


Vaguely election related news.

NPR: Canada Just Wants To #TellAmericaItsGreat. The sentiment is nice.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:03 AM on October 17, 2016 [15 favorites]


So what happens if he never concedes, but Clinton has a solid margin of victory? Do we all just try to ignore him and get on with our collective lives? Does Trump get to whine about a stolen election on the wingnut welfare circuit for the rest of his life?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:03 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Incidentally, here are the states that electoral-vote.com currently considers to be the swing states in this election -- which they define as states where neither candidate has a lead of greater than 4% in the polls:

New Hampshire (4% Clinton lead)
Florida (4% Clinton lead)
Ohio (3% Clinton lead)
North Carolina (3% Clinton lead)
Arizona (1% Trump lead)
Mississippi (3% Trump lead)
Texas (4% Trump lead)
South Carolina (4% Trump lead)
Iowa (4% Trump lead)
Indiana (4% Trump lead)

Nevada, which they do not currently count as a swing state, has a 5% lead for Clinton. Missouri, Georgia, and Alaska have 5% leads for Trump. Colorado and Virginia both have 9% leads for Clinton.
posted by kyrademon at 7:04 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


Trump will go back to blurting angry tweets to an audience of only the people who choose to listen. Right now all of us have little choice but to deal with what he says.

90% of his "followers" only follow him because they think he could be president. Two months from today he'll be a marginal figure and authoritarians don't like marginal figures, especially ones who lost.
posted by argybarg at 7:04 AM on October 17, 2016


Big peice in FT: Trump’s Russian connections
posted by Artw at 7:05 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


So what happens if he never concedes, but Clinton has a solid margin of victory?

The Electoral College meets and declares Clinton to be the next President. She is inaugurated on January 20th, 2017.

Do we all just try to ignore him and get on with our collective lives?

Yep.

Does Trump get to whine about a stolen election on the wingnut welfare circuit for the rest of his life?

Pretty much, yeah.
posted by Etrigan at 7:06 AM on October 17, 2016 [16 favorites]


In aviation, there's a condition where your maximum and minimum speeds converge - you can't go slower, because you'll stall, and you can't go faster, because the airflow over the wings will go chaotic. It's very important not to get into that state, because it becomes very difficult to control the aircraft.

It's called coffin corner, and I rather think Trump's there with his ceiling and floor. Any move he makes will eat away at his vote, possibly quite massively, and he's stuck unable to do anything remotely useful.

Even if he wanted to, and at this point it doesn't look like he can form the idea.
posted by Devonian at 7:06 AM on October 17, 2016 [88 favorites]


It's not the legal system you need to worry about. Judges, lawyers, etc, are almost all well-educated people with a large stake in the continuity of government. Trump won't get past the door of the courthouse.

The legitimacy of government is derived from the consent of the people, and if the people don't accept the results of the election, you're going to have a very bad time. There are a lot of heavily-armed so-called patriots who fantasize about "watering the tree of liberty" and, in all seriousness, a falsified democratic election is the sort of thing that people should get violent about.

You know how civil rights activists got stalked, beaten, and killed? You know how abortion clinics still get shot up and bombed? Imagine thousands of Tea Party types taking their namesake literally and deciding that any government action they don't like is because the election was illegitimate and should be met with violent revolution.
posted by 0xFCAF at 7:07 AM on October 17, 2016 [26 favorites]


I figure that even if Trump doesn't concede, the institutional GOP will, and the extant political structure will treat that as sufficient. I suppose it'll be authentically finalized when the Electoral College meets. In terms of preparation for taking office, &c., I imagine the same basic procedures will take place whether or not Trump concedes, and after January 6 and the official recording of the votes, who conceded and when will be irrelevant anyways.
posted by jackbishop at 7:09 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


So there's some shit going down with Assange's net being down (Wikileaks claims cut by state actor) and they tweeted out some file hashes.

Some of the futher conspiracy inclined have been tracking a flight which some random has claimed has Assange on it headed towards the US.
posted by Talez at 7:11 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Artw, that FT article is paywalled. The usual google "ft.com trumps russian connections" and click the link from there should work (at least it does for me.)
posted by papercrane at 7:12 AM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


So I had a conversation with a friend who said that she felt Hillary wanted to go to war with Iran - like, an actual war. We veered off and talked about Syria instead, and I didn't get a chance to ask her more about this.

All I could find on the google that really seemed sourced rather than opinionated suggested that Hillary is more hard-line/aggressive than Obama in foreign policy, and that she's said some strongly-worded things about the Middle East, but nothing that really suggests to me that she's looking for a pretext to go to war with Iran. I have tended to assume that war with Iran would be a hideous quagmire and so - as much as I do not like her foreign policy - Clinton is unlikely to be thinking "aha, let's have another quagmire". Also, this does not seem to mesh well with the Iran deal.

Anyway, I was wondering - do folks have various good sources about what she has said about Iran? What would lead someone who is not stupid, mendacious or a Trump supporter to be concerned that Clinton is seeking a war in Iran?
posted by Frowner at 7:13 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Incidentally, here are the states that electoral-vote.com currently considers to be the swing states in this election -- which they define as states where neither candidate has a lead of greater than 4% in the polls:

Trump has not led a poll in Florida or North Carolina in almost a month, since Sept 21.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:15 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Some of the futher conspiracy inclined have been tracking a flight which some random has claimed has Assange on it headed towards the US.

(Strangely, even though I really loathe Assange, one thing that would put me off voting for a Democrat (in this very Blue state, though) would be if some special forces people went in and grabbed him in alleged national interest, or if there were some dodgy "let's get him" routine. He's awful, but they wouldn't be getting him because he's awful, they'd be getting him for cronyist reasons.)
posted by Frowner at 7:16 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


No paywall for me, but they can be weird like that.
posted by Artw at 7:16 AM on October 17, 2016


0xFCAF, that's definitely the nightmare scenario but I don't think it's likely. Trump's core supporters are violent, but they're not well-organized and most of them are fundamentally cowards. I can certainly see a rash of isolated violence following the election—hate crimes, assassination attempts, mass shootings—which would be horrific enough, but I think in a situation like that the vast, vast majority of the populace and the government will form ranks in universal condemnation of such acts. I don't see it significantly destabilizing the country; I think that the actions of such violent lunatics would drive the nation as a whole further away from them, that there would be great solidarity in opposition to such attacks.

I don't think we're going to see thousands of people mounting any kind of organized insurrection; any violence will stay at the level where it can be dealt with by civilian law enforcement rather than the military. Trump's brand of violent fascism would find itself even more marginalized than it is now; it certainly wouldn't stand a chance of seriously challenging a solid Clinton victory. At least, I hope not.

Most people are going to want to move on to other things after this election is over. Trump's politics will fester, but I think if we can seriously repudiate him in the election then his moment—and the collective moment of the fascist bigots who form his true core of die-hard support—will have passed. There may be some very ugly spasms in the immediate aftermath, but the country will go on. The bigger question, in my mind, is whether we can keep our attention focused on the issues this election cycle has highlighted long enough to make serious inroads in dealing with them, or whether we will be back to where we were at the beginning of this election except with additional scars and trauma.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:18 AM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


Trump's a bad loser and that's what worries people. But hey, nobody can see the future. Isn't that reassuring?
posted by Namlit at 7:19 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Perhaps the writers are going to send Assange to Sweden to actually get questioned for sexual assault as a way of presenting parallel sexual assault themes in the main story to justify one of the minor plots that they annoyingly insist on including in every other episode.
posted by R343L at 7:24 AM on October 17, 2016 [45 favorites]


@ZekeJMiller
Republican @OhioSOSHusted on CNN hitting Trump for claiming election will be rigged.
posted by chris24 at 7:27 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Donald isn't a leader, he's a rabble rouser from a distance. Just look at his "plans" for the country - they're not actually plans, and if you can find any, you can bet they're not really his plans.

So unless someone who props him up as some sort of radial figurehead and directs the show from behind a curtain, I also expect Donnie to keep ranting on Twitter and any media outlet that will have him, and I hope (I'm too cynical to expect) that he drops off the speed-dial for main stream media outlets to be the angry counter person to the liberal person on air.

We'll have some small pockets of armed and/or violent idiots being dangerous and possibly deadly, but there's no civil war around the corner. I'd hazard to guess that most of the Trumpists are conservatives looking for change, not armed militia-types. And the armed Bundy types are pre-Donald, though they may be more bold because of Donald.

The worst large-scale impact that Trump will have, in my eyes, is that his deplorable language is now more normal, as seen with comments from the crowd at Second City and so many instances of women being accosted by random dudes. The country is notably worse for women and people of color.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:29 AM on October 17, 2016 [12 favorites]


So what's the debate on Wednesday going to be like? My standards for a Fox News moderated debate are subterranean. I assume they'll just let Trump go on and on and on, and that it'll all be rigged election and lying women crazy talk. I surprised myself by feeling a surge of intense anger when I saw some mention of Hillary preparing for the debate, because why should she even bother? Trump certainly isn't bothering to prepare. That debate is going to be a shitshow and it won't matter what she says or does, Trump's going to take up all the oxygen with his crazy talk and I assume Fox News is going to let him.
posted by yasaman at 7:30 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


More weird Russian stuff going on in the UK - Russia Today's has had its bank accounts frozen. So far, nobody's saying why.
posted by Devonian at 7:31 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


I imagine that more Republicans, especially those who are likely to win their elections, will denounce the claims of rigging. Otherwise, did they rig those elections to win? You can only shout "this is rigged!" if you're going to lose, otherwise you're the one rigging the election, right?
posted by filthy light thief at 7:31 AM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


(Strangely, even though I really loathe Assange, one thing that would put me off voting for a Democrat (in this very Blue state, though) would be if some special forces people went in and grabbed him in alleged national interest, or if there were some dodgy "let's get him" routine. He's awful, but they wouldn't be getting him because he's awful, they'd be getting him for cronyist reasons.)
posted by Frowner at 7:16 AM on October 17 [+] [!]


Assange is a fugitive who is known to collaborate with Putin to interfere in US elections. Seems weird to assume "cronyism" would be the reason when there are so many other, better reasons to choose from.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:31 AM on October 17, 2016 [42 favorites]


Politico: The county that's ground zero for Trump's suburban woes
When the question was how suburban women reacted to Trump’s debate performance, the dateline was naturally West Chester, the county seat. Same for a recent look at Trump’s struggles with college-educated white voters. Ivanka Trump kicked off her tour of Philadelphia’s collar counties on Thursday with a stop in Chester County, and the campaign chose Chester County as a marquee stop on its Women for Trump tour earlier this month, dispatching the GOP nominee’s daughter-in-law Lara here.

“You know why?” said Alan Novak, the former chair of both the Pennsylvania GOP and the Chester County GOP, when asked about Chester County’s star turn. “White, highly educated women, white, college-educated men—that’s Chester County. You could take that label off and put the county in its place, that’s what we are.”
For the benefit of anyone who doesn't know their PA counties: Chester County is the wealthiest county in the state as measured by per capita income. It's almost all suburbs and exurbs, expressways and bypasses, strip malls and professional office parks. With so many pieces being written about Trump's rural base, it's notable that the Trump campaign thinks of ChesCo as an important part of their base of support this close to the election.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:35 AM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


So what's the debate on Wednesday going to be like?

Same general format as the first one. Six topics with fifteen minutes devoted to each. Less fact checking, probably.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:36 AM on October 17, 2016


Annie Laurie at Balloon Juice compiled some Josh Barro tweets on the subject of Trump's respect for women:
The creepy Trump line from Sunday's debate that keeps sticking with me is "I have tremendous respect for women. Women have respect for me."

This line is creepy because it reflects Trump's obsession with appearances of reciprocity: You respect me, I respect you.

Trump's reciprocity goes the other way: You don't respect me, I don't respect you.


Confidential to Spathe Cadet: I'm sure you didn't intend your comment to sabotage ctrl+f 'barro'
posted by palindromic at 7:38 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


@ForecasterEnten
Four live interview national polls released in last 24 hours... Clinton +7 on average.
posted by chris24 at 7:38 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]




I'm with Frowner on this one, though I don't know that "cronyism" is the word I would have chosen. Speaking for myself, I'm just sort of ideologically opposed to kidnapping people branded as Enemies of the State and bringing them back to the U.S. for show trials. If we're going to try Assange for treason or whatever, I'd prefer that he at least be delivered through some sort of normal extradition process rather than some kind of extralegal special ops mission. Also, my preference would be that he was tried for rape first. His political stuff has been kind of a mixed bag and I don't think it's anything that he should be proud of, but I don't think the U.S. is capable of giving him a fair trial there, and show trials for political crimes are disgusting.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:41 AM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]


Trump has driven his campaign into a ditch. But he has a strategy for getting out: honking his horn.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:41 AM on October 17, 2016 [61 favorites]


Lauren Fox at TPM: How Trump Has Already Fouled The American Democratic Experiment:
Historians who spoke with TPM about the way in which this election has defied the norms of presidential politics cited it as one of the starkest ways in which 2016 has– perhaps irreversibly– redefined our country's democratic system, but not the only one.

In so many ways, this election has been unprecedented. When was the last time a presidential candidate had such an utter disregard for facts that could so easily be fact checked? When was there a presidential candidate who was so widely rebuked by so many in his own party? When was the last time that the U.S. was accusing a foreign actor of attempting to intervene in the country's presidential election?

Each of these departures from the conventions of presidential politics is in its own way remarkable and even shocking. But Trump goes beyond being merely unconventional. He is unmoored from the underlying democratic traditions in specific, well-understood, and troubling ways. And that is what frightens the experts.
posted by palindromic at 7:43 AM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


Also Trump will be a loser and authoritarians don't like losers.

But the True Winner who's been denied the Presidency through a rigged election is a martyr, which people love. I don't think there's much to worry about in the way of a violent uprising, but I can definitely see this being the narrative that keeps Trump's base loyal (and most importantly, loyal customers post-election).
posted by Rykey at 7:44 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]




Speaking for myself, I'm just sort of ideologically opposed to kidnapping people branded as Enemies of the State and bringing them back to the U.S. for show trials. If we're going to try Assange for treason or whatever, I'd prefer that he at least be delivered through some sort of normal extradition process rather than some kind of extralegal special ops mission.

Is there any evidence this has happened? It's weird to be talking about it like it's a thing that's happening without any evidence.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:46 AM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]


Sooooo...

People who believe an election is rigged, or that the result is otherwise forgone, usually just...don't vote, right?

Ngl I probably won't mind so much if that 20% of the population just decides to stop voting for the foreseeable future.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:46 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump has driven his campaign into a ditch. But he has a strategy for getting out: honking his horn.

Don't worry, I've got an ace up my sleeve!
posted by palindromic at 7:47 AM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


Sorry Bulgaroktonos, I was speaking in hypotheticals. I thought that was clear; I apologize if it wasn't. I'm well aware that there is no reason to believe that Assange has been kidnapped by U.S. special forces or whatever. I was just trying to provide some justification for Frowner's comment, which I took to be hypothetical as well. I'll leave off the subject now since I think it would be a derail to keep going with it, but for the record, I was definitely discussing a hypothetical situation rather than one which I think is actually happening.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:52 AM on October 17, 2016


Props to Putin propaganda outlet RT's Chief Editor Margarita Simonyan for sarcastically adding: “Long live freedom of speech!” to her tweet about their dealings with NatWest, while conveniently failing to mention her own country's abominable record in that regard.

RT's statement on twitter is here.
posted by zarq at 7:52 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


The Economist does not like Trump, I take it. Yowza.

The Economist Intelligence Unit has listed the prospect of a Trump presidency as one of the top 10 risks to the global economy since March.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 7:55 AM on October 17, 2016 [16 favorites]




In Senate Race news, 538's Senate Forecast models are beginning to look like they're showing a genuine upward trend in terms of the Democratic party's chances for taking control of the Senate after the election. There's been some discussion as to why it is that Clinton's rise in polling hasn't appeared to come with a rise in polling for Democratic Senate candidates, with one of the major theories being that there is simply a lag. It's early to say for sure, but it's starting to look like that may indeed be the case and that we'll continue to see a rise in the coming days.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:58 AM on October 17, 2016 [13 favorites]


Ngl I probably won't mind so much if that 20% of the population just decides to stop voting for the foreseeable future.

No offense meant, but reconsider that attitude. Isn't it just the inverse of right-wing sentiments justifying Democratic vote suppression?
posted by aught at 7:58 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Is it voter suppression if people decide not to vote?
posted by Too-Ticky at 8:01 AM on October 17, 2016 [15 favorites]


Speaking of 538's Senate forecast, does anyone know why they show the polls-only model by default for the presidential race, but the polls-plus model by default for the Senate race?
posted by J.K. Seazer at 8:01 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


NPR: Canada Just Wants To #TellAmericaItsGreat.

Thanks, Canada; I sort of needed that. One feels somewhat sheepish and apologetic at the best of times about living in a place with such a high planetary karmic debt. But the most debilitating thing about this whole shitshow for me -- more than the fear, worry, disgust, and outrage -- is feeling just mired in shame and self-loathing about the revolting, scarifying, brutish display we're putting on and the prospect of what a Trump United States would unleash on its people and the world.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:01 AM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


Isn't it just the inverse of right-wing sentiments justifying Democratic vote suppression?

No, because one is people voluntarily deciding not to participate because they don't like their options, and the other is people who want to participate being illegally prevented from doing so. As much as I believe in the need for an opposition party to keep the majority party honest, it's not my job to make sure they're energized.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:01 AM on October 17, 2016 [27 favorites]


Speaking of 538's Senate forecast, does anyone know why they show the polls-only model by default for the presidential race, but the polls-plus model by default for the Senate race?

Probably because there's no way to predict which way this shitfit will go. It's a day by day thing now.
posted by Talez at 8:02 AM on October 17, 2016


Isn't it just the inverse of right-wing sentiments justifying Democratic vote suppression?

Choosing not to vote because your Party's candidate is a dangerously insane madman likely controlled by a foreign power is not the same as being prevented from voting at all due to the color of your skin.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:02 AM on October 17, 2016 [35 favorites]


From the Washington Post: Inside Donald Trump’s echo chamber of conspiracies, grievances and vitriol
He is preaching to the converted. He is lashing out at anyone who is not completely loyal. He is detaching himself from and delegitimizing the institutions of American political life. And he is proclaiming conspiracies everywhere — in polls (rigged), in debate moderators (biased) and in the election itself (soon to be stolen).

In the presidential campaign’s home stretch, Donald Trump is fully inhabiting his own echo chamber. The Republican nominee has turned inward, increasingly isolated from the country’s mainstream and leaders of his own party, and determined to rouse his most fervent supporters with dire warnings that their populist movement could fall prey to dark and collusive forces.
posted by peeedro at 8:03 AM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


J.K. Seazer, I've wondered that too. I assume it's just that there isn't as much quality polling for the Senate races as for the Presidential one (you can see that just from how jagged the chances-over-time chart is) so Nate decided to foreground the model that also uses economic data and historical precedent. Probably not the choice I would have made in his shoes—better to be more consistent, I'd think—but I imagine that's what the thinking was.

In any case, all three models show the same apparent trend that I mentioned in my last comment.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:04 AM on October 17, 2016


Isn't it just the inverse of right-wing sentiments justifying Democratic vote suppression?

Yes, if you take the inverse of "The other side is keeping its opponents from voting" to be "This side is keeping itself from voting."
posted by Etrigan at 8:08 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Maybe you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows but Keegan-Michael Key (of comedy duo Key & Peele) will help you out anyway with a frightful national forecast.
posted by fuse theorem at 8:09 AM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


> "Maybe Donald Trump is Really a Victim in All This | The Closer with Keith Olbermann | GQ"

I reeeeeally hope this kind of information finally destroys the whole "Kellyanne Conway is just a hired gun doing her job" idea. She is, and has always been, all-in with the crazies.
posted by kyrademon at 8:11 AM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]


Is it voter suppression if people decide not to vote?

Yes. Honest tactics involve convincing people with your candidate's character and message, not fostering cynicism and hopelessness in your opponents' followers.

In the long run, when citizens of any political stripe opt out of the system, it ends up being bad for the whole system. In recent decades, cynicism about government, deliberately encouraged by RNC campaign messages, have disillusioned and kept a lot of moderate to left-leaning voters home on election days, and that was crappy too. We should not hope for reduced participation in the process.

The prospect of Trump gaining office terrifies me too, but that's not the route to hope for, it just perpetuates the awful decline that is partly to blame for him getting a shot in the first place.
posted by aught at 8:12 AM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


I'd want it to include spouses of firefighters as well, and possibly other roles

The proposed amendment (scroll down) includes firefighters, search and rescue personnel and emergency medical services personnel; it would be up to localities to enact an exemption. Current law permits this for the spouse of any veteran with a 100 percent service-connected, permanent, and total disability. And yes, it's "spouse" and not "partner," but same-sex marriage has been legal in Virginia since 2014.

this is kinda derailly, so that's the last from me
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:12 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


CNN are hammering Trump surrogates.
posted by Talez at 8:13 AM on October 17, 2016


Does Trump get to whine about a stolen election on the wingnut welfare circuit for the rest of his life?

That's up to the wingnuts. On the one hand, they like his type, on the other hand, he's burned a lot of bridges. At the moment I feel like he'll be depending a lot on his 19th-amendment-hating, Gawker-killing, actual aspiring vampire friend Thiel.
posted by emjaybee at 8:14 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Honest tactics involve convincing people with your candidate's character and message, not fostering cynicism and hopelessness in your opponents' followers.

It's not Dems doing it, it's their own nominee.
posted by chris24 at 8:16 AM on October 17, 2016 [16 favorites]




Yes. Honest tactics involve convincing people with your candidate's character and message, not fostering cynicism and hopelessness in your opponents' followers.

The one doing this is Trump himself, not his opponents.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:16 AM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


Paul Campos at Lawyers, Guns & Money: The paranoid style, 2016:
The optimistic take at this point is that the Trump campaign is no longer primarily about winning the 2016 election, but rather is morphing into a Steve Bannon scheme to found Trump TV, which will become the media centerpiece of a fascistic ethno-nationalist mass political movement, which will continue to fight to seize complete control of the Republican party. That’s the optimistic take.

It’s an open question whether Trump himself has become paranoid in a clinical sense, or whether he is consciously or semi-consciously taking cynical advantage of Hofstadter termed the “paranoid style” in American political life. An open question, and ultimately not a very interesting one, since the social effects are the same either way.
posted by palindromic at 8:16 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


I assume it's just that there isn't as much quality polling for the Senate races as for the Presidential one (you can see that just from how jagged the chances-over-time chart is)

That makes sense.

As far as horse-race number watching goes, I'm just eagerly awaiting the points when Hillary breaks her previous maximum win probability of 89.2% from August 14, and when her projected popular vote share breaks 50%.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 8:16 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


If anyone wants to provide a summary of the "Maybe Donald Trump is a Victim" video that ChurchHatesTucker links above and which kyrademon says should put to rest the idea of Kellyanne Conway as a mercenary rather than a true believer, I'd be interested to read it. I can't watch videos at work and avoid them in general, but I'm very interested to hear what this one is about.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:18 AM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


Whenever anyone says "there are a number of things" to deflect a question the instant reply should be "name one".
posted by Talez at 8:19 AM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


Is it voter suppression if people decide not to vote?

Yes. Honest tactics involve convincing people with your candidate's character and message, not fostering cynicism and hopelessness in your opponents' followers.


That's... quite a hill to climb. The GOP chose to field a human dumpster fire. If the presence of a human dumpster fire on the ballot next to the (R) offends a large part of the Republican base, maybe the time for them to do something about it was during the primaries. Calling it "voter suppression," especially juxtaposed with ACTUAL VOTER SUPPRESSION EFFORTS in a handful of swing states, cheapens the term.
posted by Mayor West at 8:20 AM on October 17, 2016 [44 favorites]


Anil Dash, one of the folks who first started spreading the news about the NC GOP donation campaign, after sleeping on the criticisms from "a lot of very kind, thoughtful people," has apologized, withdrawn his donation and acknowledged "it doesn't make sense to oppose political violence by supporting those attacking civil rights."
posted by mediareport at 8:23 AM on October 17, 2016 [21 favorites]


How do you withdraw a donation?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:24 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


If anyone wants to provide a summary of the "Maybe Donald Trump is a Victim" video that ChurchHatesTucker links above and which kyrademon says should put to rest the idea of Kellyanne Conway as a mercenary rather than a true believer, I'd be interested to read it.

The gist is that Trump is just an opportunity for the Vast Right Wing conspiracy folks who will discard him if he loses and move on to the next guy. The video itself is Keith Olbermann telling a story about Laura Ingraham inviting him to join her anti-Clinton campaign after they went on a date, and bizarrely it isn't an Aaron Sorkin plot but an actual thing that happened.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:24 AM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]




Bulgaroktonos, that sounds like kind of a nothingburger then. Where does Kellyanne Conway come into it?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:26 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


> "If anyone wants to provide a summary of the "Maybe Donald Trump is a Victim" video ..."

In short: when Keith Olbermann first rose to prominence during the 90's, he went on a date with Laura Ingraham, who literally invited him to join the "right-wing conspiracy" against the Clintons and told him who was in it and how it worked. The names included Matt Drudge, David Bossie (now Deputy Campaign Manager to the Trump campaign), and the then Kellyanne Fitzpatrick, now Kellyanne Conway (campaign manager to the Trump campaign.)
posted by kyrademon at 8:27 AM on October 17, 2016 [34 favorites]


How do you withdraw a donation?

It's easy if you use Paypal but then you've got a whole other thing.
posted by beerperson at 8:29 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


If we are going to talk about unsubstantiated theories re Assange. I have made a list of things more likely than US Spooks kidnapping him from an Embassy.

1- John Podesta and Crooked Hilary have turned Assange after offering immunity from prosecution and a bowl of lobster risotto.

2- Assange was kidnapped by the Soup Nazi for threatening to publish secret soup recipes.

3- V.I.P. was actually a documentary and Pamela Anderson's recent visit to Assange was to case the joint for her mission.

4- Video game journalists and an elite team of SJW's have taken unilateral action to silence him.
posted by humanfont at 8:30 AM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


The gist is that Trump is just an opportunity for the Vast Right Wing conspiracy folks who will discard him if he loses and move on to the next guy.

... Keith Olbermann went on a date with Laura Ingraham? I think my brain just melted.
posted by suelac at 8:32 AM on October 17, 2016 [15 favorites]


Has Olberman ever talked about My Date With Laura Ingraham before? I feel like someone who literally cannot keep his yap shut must have talked all about this previously?
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:33 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Some Googling suggests he has.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:36 AM on October 17, 2016


> "Has Olberman ever talked about My Date With Laura Ingraham before?"

The fact that they dated is on Laura Ingraham's wikipedia page, citing a New Yorker profile on Olbermann from 2008 (which, on preview, is linked in the comment above this one.)

I have no idea if this particular aspect of the story has been told before, but the fact that they went out together is certainly a known thing.
posted by kyrademon at 8:37 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


unsubstantiated theories re Assange

The strange case of Pamela Anderson’s news-hogging vegan sandwich (Guardian)
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:39 AM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


From the summaries, that video sounds more like gossipy shit-stirring rather than a smoking gun of any kind. I do appreciate people going to the trouble of explaining what it's about, though.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:40 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


All this Wikileaks bullshit for lack of turning on two factor authentication.
posted by Talez at 8:41 AM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]


Does the Obama/Holder redistricting initiative seem likely to have an effect? Give me hope please!
posted by prefpara at 8:41 AM on October 17, 2016


Charles Pierce: 'Little Trump' Is Driving All His Surrogates Insane:
Now, onto The Sunday Showz. And let me make a modest suggestion to the people who book the guests for such productions. Give up on the Republican campaign for president. Seriously, there isn't a single surrogate for El Caudillo del Mar-A-Lago who won't drop the collective IQ of your program by 20 points and who won't turn even the most sedate interview into an exercise in Bedlam. And it's not even the Kaleigh/AJ/Kellyanne/Scottie Nell Axis Of Stupid, either. It's the people who once were held, God knoweth why, in high esteem in the political life of this country.

For example, there's N. Leroy Gingrich, Definer of civilization's rules and Leader (perhaps) of the civilizing forces. He long ago departed this earthly realm on golden clouds of his own intellectual flatulence, but his shilling for Donald Trump has sent him spiraling off toward the Horsehead Nebula. He dropped by This Week With The Clinton Guy Shocked By Blowjobs, where old pal Martha Raddatz was ensconced in the big chair. He would like you to know that, despite being A Historian and a Leading Intellect, he also is a crazy person who hears Alex Jones through his fillings.
Well, I think they are the news media. This is not about election officials at the precinct level. This is about last Friday, when the networks spent 23 minutes on the Trump tape and less than one minute—all three networks combined—less than one minute on Hillary Clinton's secret speeches that were being revealed on WikiLeaks. And you look at that and you say—I mean, I think it's amazing that Trump is as close as he is right now, considering the one-sidedness of the news media barrage. And the best description of it is by Barry Casselman in his blog, where he said this is a coup d'etat. He said 14 million citizens and private ballots picked Donald Trump, 20 TV executives have decided to destroy him.
First of all, as all actual historians know, you can't have a "coup d'etat" against a candidate because there's no "etat" to coup against. Second, as all actual historians watching this interview undoubtedly shouted as one, "Who the fck is Barry Casselman?"
posted by palindromic at 8:43 AM on October 17, 2016 [28 favorites]


> "From the summaries, that video sounds more like gossipy shit-stirring rather than a smoking gun of any kind."

Not a smoking gun, no, but in general I've been a little weirded out by people giving Kellyanne "my last big job was for Todd 'legitimate rape' Akins" Conway a pass because she can talk on TV without actually foaming at the mouth.
posted by kyrademon at 8:45 AM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: "Voter fraud! Crooked Hillary Clinton even got the questions to a debate, and nobody says a word. Can you imagine if I got the questions?"

As if you'd even read them.
posted by Rumpled at 8:48 AM on October 17, 2016 [31 favorites]


Ngl I probably won't mind so much if that 20% of the population just decides to stop voting for the foreseeable future.

It's not 20% of the population, it's 20% of voters. Voter turnout in the last couple US presidential elections is around 40-45% of the total population and around 50-55% of the total population.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:50 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


The North Carolina Republicans literally got in trouble three months ago for suppressing minority voting, specifically "target[ing] African-Americans with almost surgical precision."(PDF) The federal appeals court found "the law was designed as a deliberate tool to reduce the African-American vote." This is the law where the state legislators literally requested data about which voting methods were used based on race, then restricted anything that black people used disproportionately (early voting, certain photo ID, etc). This is the most blatantly and openly racist law I can remember, and it makes my blood boil.

This is what Democrats gave $10k to last night. Congrats on a good news cycle or whatever.
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:50 AM on October 17, 2016 [29 favorites]


Charles Pierce: 'Little Trump' Is Driving All His Surrogates Insane

I was catching a lot of this dynamic listening to various news updates this morning, and the schadenfreude, it is delicious. So many of Trump's surrogates are trying to play off his "rigged" rhetoric as just being about unfairness in the media, but hours after they all go onto various shows to push this story, Trump goes onto twitter and is like "I'm serious, this is being rigged by the politicians." [summary].

His surrogates at this point seem to spend most of their time having to explain why Trump's straightforward statements of intent or belief don't actually mean what they mean.
posted by tocts at 8:51 AM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


Leader (perhaps) of the civilizing forces

I don't think I'll ever get tired of this
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:59 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


It's hard for me to distinguish between "topic worthy of heated debate" and "topic that we are guaranteed Not To Do Well," but I'm already dreading discussion yet to come in this thread regarding donating to the NC GOP. I get why the people who did it did it; I get why the people who didn't didn't; and I don't think it's going to swing the election either way.

That said: if someone firebombed my dick neighbor's house, the one with the "Veterans for Trump" sign on his lawn, I'd chip in to make him whole again, and I wouldn't fret about whether he was going to spend the money on a "pray the gay away" camp or something. It's really about which you think is heavier: the moral weight of having given any money at all to someone who does shitty things, or the moral weight of sending a message that you want to rebuke extralegal methods of influencing elections. Everyone gets to decide for themselves which rulebook to follow.
posted by savetheclocktower at 9:00 AM on October 17, 2016 [86 favorites]


I really want someone to ask Donald Trump what he thinks the definition of "voter fraud" is. He doesn't seem to actually know.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:01 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Harry Enten at 538: Men Are Treating 2016 As A ‘Normal’ Election; Women Aren’t:
We could be looking at the largest gender gap in a presidential election since at least 1952: Men are favoring the Republican nominee, Donald Trump, in typical numbers, but a historically overwhelming share of women say they will vote for the Democrat, Hillary Clinton.

As my colleague Nate Silver has pointed out, women are winning this election for Clinton. Between the historic nature of Clinton’s candidacy, Trump’s record of misogynistic comments and now the Trump tape and allegations of sexual assault against Trump, American men and women are incredibly split on the 2016 election. But that split isn’t symmetrical. In an average of the most recent live-interview polls from each pollster to test the race in October, Clinton holds a 20-percentage-point advantage among women, and Trump is winning more narrowly among men.
posted by palindromic at 9:01 AM on October 17, 2016 [36 favorites]


Is there a hashtag to take away the vote from men
posted by beerperson at 9:02 AM on October 17, 2016 [31 favorites]




Going hard for AZ.

@JesseFFerguson
NEWS-
FLOTUS to campaign in Phoenix (AZ) on Thursday

@danmericaCNN
Robby Mook, on a conference call, announces the campaign is dumping $2m in AZ to win the state and $1m in MO and IN to help Dem races.
posted by chris24 at 9:03 AM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


"Target Pulls Clown Masks As Creepy Clown Incidents Get Scarier."

Putting on my Carnac the Magnificent hat, I'm going to predict the January headlines:

"Clinton Takes Office, But Angry Clown Militias Fight On."
posted by octobersurprise at 9:04 AM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


This sounds kinda bad?

Very. This is what Trump is going to unload on in the debates.
posted by Talez at 9:05 AM on October 17, 2016


I think this is the best argument against donating to NC GOP:

@pblest: btw, here's what the NCGOP chair thinks about people whose homes are currently underwater getting five extra days to register to vote.
The state's Republican Party opposed any extension.

"It is clear that North Carolina Democrats, who have been dominated in voter registration by Republicans, want to use a horrific natural disaster to change the rules in the middle of the game," state Republican Chairman Robin Hayes said in a statement.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 9:07 AM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


I think this is the best argument against donating to NC GOP:

I know they're terrible people but I can't agree that donating to NC GOP was a bad thing or waste of time and this exact tweetstorm explains why.
posted by Talez at 9:10 AM on October 17, 2016 [20 favorites]


Is there a hashtag to take away the vote from men

#maybeletseatthemandturnthemintoglovesandboots
posted by phunniemee at 9:11 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Y'all really think it'll be that bad? Trump isn't capable of explaining the classification quid-pro-quo thing in a coherent fashion, nor do most voters have the attention span to follow the chain of logic through to the end. This emails thing has been so endlessly litigated at this point that I think it would take a much bigger bombshell to really change people's minds. Everybody already knows what they think about it, everybody has long since cherry-picked the soundbites that they intend to remember, and there's little evidence that it's the deciding factor in anyone's vote. People who hate Clinton will continue to hate her, people who intend to vote for her will still do so, and the number of people in the middle who could conceivably be swayed by this rather nuanced and inside-baseball detail in what has been a multi-year shitfest of epic proportions probably approaches zero.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:12 AM on October 17, 2016 [27 favorites]


re: emails: Probably more of an issue for Clinton after the election. They've run out of runway.
posted by selfnoise at 9:14 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump isn't capable of explaining the classification quid-pro-quo thing in a coherent fashion, nor do most voters have the attention span to follow the chain of logic through to the end.

Have we yet seen him explain anything in a coherent fashion or seen his voters evince an attention span? "The FBI says you broke the law" is all he needs to do to get a pop from the audience.
posted by Etrigan at 9:15 AM on October 17, 2016


As evidence: it's becoming more clear that the Trump tape had no real impact on polling, because everyone who could possibly vote for Trump had already decided.
posted by selfnoise at 9:16 AM on October 17, 2016


"Oh, boy. Quid pro quo allegation between State and FBI over classification. That is messy."

I feel like it needs more unpacking or context. What I see in the screenshot he's summarizing there is the State Dept. saying an email should be unclassified, but FBI saying it's classified. My question is, if it's a State Dept. email in the first place, shouldn't State be be the arbiters of what's classified or not? Like, I could go either way on this - either State was wrong to ask for unclassified, or FBI was wrong to insist on classified.
posted by dnash at 9:16 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


It sounds like the email they were quarreling over was one of the ones that was unclassified when Clinton originally sent/received it, but re-classified later when the FBI did its investigation? Then it's even more convoluted, since Clinton was obviously out of the State Dept at that point. It seems more like people at State trying to cover their own butts.
posted by AndrewInDC at 9:18 AM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


I don't get those emails at all. Seems like someone in the FBI is claiming they were told to mark one email "unclassified" in exchange for the State Department allowing the FBI to use agents in countries? Because isn't the FBI limited to operations within the US? Wouldn't it be the CIA placing agents in other countries?
posted by Kitty Stardust at 9:18 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


We've seen repeatedly that the electorate is both looking for a reason to not vote Clinton and has the memory of a goldfish. I'm honestly terrified about these quid-pro-quo allegations. It'll be the thing that every Trump surrogate pivots to from here until the end of the election and it's brand new allegations of a different crime.

I feel like it needs more unpacking or context. What I see in the screenshot he's summarizing there is the State Dept. saying an email should be unclassified, but FBI saying it's classified. My question is, if it's a State Dept. email in the first place, shouldn't State be be the arbiters of what's classified or not? Like, I could go either way on this - either State was wrong to ask for unclassified, or FBI was wrong to insist on classified.

That's not the problem. The problem is that the documents quite clearly show that State is offering something the FBI wants in exchange for something State wants. The Undersecretary of State is fighting Clinton's political battles and it stinks like last week's fish.
posted by Talez at 9:19 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


No one voting Clinton is going to be moved by intra-agency arguing over classification levels. Nothingburgers here, get 'yer nothingburgers!
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:19 AM on October 17, 2016 [15 favorites]


I'd really like to see Ohio stay blue.

FWIW, current Ohio predictions. Not exactly sure why this is what it is, considering every singleton poll I've seen shows Clinton behind, but...:
63% Dem. (NYT)
67% Dem. (538)
70% Dem. (Daily Kos)
79% Dem. (Huffington Post)
74% Dem. (PredictWise)
81% Dem. (Princeton Election Consortium)
Tossup (Cook Political Report)
Tossup (Rothenberg and Gonzales)
Lean Dem. (Sabato)
posted by mcstayinskool at 9:20 AM on October 17, 2016


Seems like it will be easy for the Trump camp to blow these emails out of proportion because 1. Low-information voters and 2. Clinton Derangement Syndrome.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 9:22 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Now is definitely the time for some oppo droppo.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:24 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]




Yeah, but the emails have already been blown out of proportion since forever. "The FBI says you broke the law" is something that Trump and the GOP already hammer Clinton with at every opportunity. I fail to see how this new tidbit changes the game; at most it's one more piece of ammunition, and even then only if they can get voters to actually understand wtf they are talking about, which I seriously doubt.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:25 AM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


Trump's supporters are somehow able to multiply times zero. They don't need anything to begin with except a keyword: "emails," "Benghazi," "pay for play," etc.
posted by argybarg at 9:25 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Because isn't the FBI limited to operations within the US?

"The FBI has offices around the globe. These offices—called legal attachés or legats—are located in U.S. embassies": (fbi.gov)
posted by Mister Bijou at 9:25 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


HuffPost Pollster 2016 Ohio President: Clinton up 42.9%-40.7%.
The Upshot: Who Is Winning in Ohio? "Hillary Clinton has a 63 percent chance to win Ohio's electoral votes."
posted by kirkaracha at 9:26 AM on October 17, 2016


> It's hard for me to distinguish between "topic worthy of heated debate" and "topic that we are guaranteed Not To Do Well," but I'm already dreading discussion yet to come in this thread regarding donating to the NC GOP. I get why the people who did it did it; I get why the people who didn't didn't; and I don't think it's going to swing the election either way.

Yeah, people should talk about what they need to talk about, but this seems a useless road to go down, producing lots of grar without shedding any light on anything.
posted by languagehat at 9:26 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


"The FBI says you broke the law"

How many times has he already said that, though? I'm sure he'll bring it up ad nauseam but at this point it's just crying wolf. I agree with the comments above; to the extent that this is actually a somethingburger (and this is by no means proved), he's out of runway, out of time and no one who's not already on side ever wants to hear the phrase "Clinton emails" ever ever again.

We've seen repeatedly that the electorate is both looking for a reason to not vote Clinton and has the memory of a goldfish. I'm honestly terrified about these quid-pro-quo allegations.

People that want a reason not to vote Clinton have already found a reason, in most cases much stupider than this particular piece of stupid. People that don't want a crazy person in the White House have already decided not to vote for the crazy person.

And yeah, people that haven't made up their mind at this point are going to have forgotten about this by the time the election happens unless the media harps on this forever - which would happen except that the story is boring to tears. I'm already bored of it and I spent less than two minutes squinking
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:27 AM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


> "As evidence: it's becoming more clear that the Trump tape had no real impact on polling, because everyone who could possibly vote for Trump had already decided."

I do not think this is what the polls are showing.
posted by kyrademon at 9:27 AM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


Matt Zapotosky is already sorting through the documents and finding some pretty bad shit. WP will probably have a pretty scathing article up on it in a day or two.
posted by Talez at 9:28 AM on October 17, 2016


Right argybarg, which is exactly why I am feeling extremely dubious as to the value of this. This is a needle. The emails scandal is a club. They're already swinging the club as hard and as often as they can; does sticking this needle on it really add a lot to its destructive power?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:28 AM on October 17, 2016


To Sleep, Perchance to Meme
(The comic)


damn, this was good.
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:28 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


I would really like to see all these classified emails for myself. My guess is, it is a morass of edge cases and nothingburgers. But, being as they are now classified, we'll never know and everyone has license to imagine they are anything from the most highly guarded state secrets to nothing at all.

But my own guess is that they tend very strongly towards the "nothing at all" end of the spectrum.
posted by flug at 9:29 AM on October 17, 2016


For the benefit of anyone who doesn't know their PA counties: Chester County is the wealthiest county in the state as measured by per capita income. It's almost all suburbs and exurbs, expressways and bypasses, strip malls and professional office parks. With so many pieces being written about Trump's rural base, it's notable that the Trump campaign thinks of ChesCo as an important part of their base of support this close to the election.

I live in the heart of Chester County, and I will say that we are indeed a microcosm of PA. If I go twenty miles east of my apartment, I'm in Philadelphia's city limits; if I go twenty miles west, there is a Wal-Mart that has hitching posts for Amish horse-and-buggies. Things change that quickly.

Eastern ChesCo is a bubble of suburban development. It's right up against King of Prussia, the infamous mega shopping mall, and the US 202 and Turnpike corridors carry with it a lot of wealth. There are malls, there are corporate parks, there are big block shopping centers, there are McMansions, there is tons of traffic, there is noise. Put a dot on West Chester and draw a 5-7 mile radius out from it in all directions; that circle is where the affluence is.

Now go outside that circle and that affluence vanishes quickly. Coatesville is the local "if you are a bad person in life, when you will die you will go to Coatesville" run-down town of choice in the area, but outside that circle there are lots of towns -- Spring City, Parkesburg, Cochranville, Unionville, West Grove, Kennett Square -- that aren't demilitarized zones but that ARE very run down, that ARE where jobs have disappeared from, that ARE in visible decay, that ARE wondering when all that affluence and property values are going to start trickling in.

So you have the haves and the have-nots in pretty close proximity and you have a lot of bubbling tension between the two, and some of each have their own reasons for trending Republican or Democrat. And that is where we are.

Also we have Bam Margera. We do apologize about that.
posted by delfin at 9:30 AM on October 17, 2016 [14 favorites]


The problem is that the documents quite clearly show that State is offering something the FBI wants in exchange for something State wants. The Undersecretary of State is fighting Clinton's political battles and it stinks like last week's fish.

FWIW, it looks like it was a two-way street (i.e. State and FBI each initiated a quid pro quo discussion) kind of thing that was ultimately fruitless, held two and half years after Clinton left office. It also looks more like it was a continuation of the constant bickering between State and the FBI over classification that has been going on since before Clinton was Secretary of State and will probably continue as long as both organizations exist.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:32 AM on October 17, 2016 [28 favorites]


How scared should we be by what Zapotsky is digging up?
posted by pxe2000 at 9:32 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Broadway For Hillary Livestream, tonight at 8:30 PM ET
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:32 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


selfnoise: As evidence: it's becoming more clear that the Trump tape had no real impact on polling, because everyone who could possibly vote for Trump had already decided.

Except the polls shifted to HRC's favor, so clearly something has changed.

538 also has an interesting write-up yesterday (Oct 16, 2016) on how everything looks compared to this time four years ago, with a short summary being that:
  • Clinton has a lead, but there's the question of margin (though 538 is giving her an 88% chance to win at the moment)
  • The number of undecided voters remains fairly high - 15% now vs 5% four years ago
  • "Those unpredictable undecided and third-party voters are why our models show both a better chance of a Trump victory than most of our competitors and a better chance of Clinton winning states like Texas"
  • 538's model is "cautious" because of how unstable Trump is now, given his implication that Clinton is on drugs and that everything's rigged against him
  • All that said, the mid-term trend shows Clinton's lead growing (again)
  • But it's unclear if this lead has has leveled out or will continue to grow
  • The swing state map is broader than in 2012 - half-dozen states up to 10 to 15 "interesting" states
  • Clinton's improving polls are often in national polls, which pushes some new states into "toss-up" territory, but possibly at the loss of total certain electoral votes for her chances (maybe - I'm having a bit of trouble parsing #6)
  • The economy is "meh," and in a normal year a generic Dem and Republican would be more competitive, but Obama is killing it, and Trump is nucking futs
  • There hasn’t been enough time for the impact of the latest round of sexual assault accusations against Trump to really show up in the polls yet
posted by filthy light thief at 9:34 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


How scared should we be by what Zapotsky is digging up?

It's not Zapotsky who's specifically doing the digging. They're publicly released documents. Everyone is doing the digging. Zapotsky is just posting what he finds as he finds it on his Twitter.
posted by Talez at 9:34 AM on October 17, 2016


Are these FOIA'd docs or...?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:35 AM on October 17, 2016


The documents are FBI records, available here: https://vault.fbi.gov/hillary-r.-clinton/hillary-r.-clinton-part-04-of-04/view

Mostly, they appear to be reports of interviews and such. So, yeah, someone writing down that a documents clerk said he/she was offered a deal to declassify one email is not exactly a smoking gun, but this will be twisted all sorts of ways by the Trumpers.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 9:36 AM on October 17, 2016


most of these excerpts are quoting complaints from ex-Diplomatic Security agents, so there is some subjectivity at play
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:36 AM on October 17, 2016


James O'Keefe is trying to get his lastest Project Veritas shitfest blowing up too.
posted by Talez at 9:38 AM on October 17, 2016


From what I could gather from the linked post, the effect on Clinton directly should be minimal since the haggling took place without her involvement and in the end nothing came of the alleged quid pro quo, but it will feed nicely into Trump's "rigged election" mania as the insinuation by Zapotsky is that the State department was working to help Clinton avoid scandal in order to help her image for the election. Roughly speaking
posted by gusottertrout at 9:38 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Also, the document quoted here mentions that there were five unclassified emails sent through HRC's server. Afterwards, the FBI classified one email, which the DoS claimed they had no authority to do.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 9:40 AM on October 17, 2016


Breitbart and /pol/ are currently creaming its pants on O'Keefe's latest crapfest, /r/t_d has noticed the new FBI documents.

Not a lot has hit MSM twitter feeds yet. I'm sure Trump will tweet the O'Keefe crapfest soon once Bannon finishes wrestling Kellyanne for the phone.
posted by Talez at 9:44 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Is there any indication that whoever and whatever government dept that is responsible for IT security and email security has learned from this email mess? Have they improved procedures and all?
posted by Jalliah at 9:44 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


How scared should we be by what Zapotsky is digging up?

First of all, he's not "digging up" anything, these are summaries of interviews the FBI held last year that they released under FOIA. As for what he's discussing, a lot of it is unverified allegations from members of Diplomatic Security about being lax with securing her phone and e-mail (nothing new), plus a single unverified allegation that she made a stop to promote clean ovens for her campaign (in the opinion of a DSS agent). Everything else looks pretty bad for Patrick Kennedy, but there is nothing connecting his request to Clinton and no one involved in the back-and-forth was part of the FBI investigation. I don't know if I'd call it a "nothingburger," but it seems more like the thing that plays well with the base, and maybe front-page news for one or two news cycles.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:45 AM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


also took her phone into a secure area

We already knew this , and we litigated it in a previous thread with Corb giving details about what the protocols are and what it appears Clinton did.
posted by schoolgirl report at 9:46 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Didn't see on ctrl F

Trump son-in-law makes approach on post-election TV start-up
Donald Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner has informally approached one of the media industry’s top dealmakers about the prospect of setting up a Trump television network after the presidential election in November.
posted by tilde at 9:48 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


I just cast my ballot at the same early voting center as the President! It was easy and fast and now I have a super sweet "I VOTED!" paper wristband.
posted by theodolite at 9:48 AM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]


Re phones in secured areas, aren't there also Powell emails basically saying "I totally did that lol"?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:48 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


James O'Keefe is trying to get his lastest Project Veritas shitfest blowing up too.

Those have all been even lamer than expected. The one where Russ Feingold, asked how Hillary could address gun control without Congressional support says something like "she could issue an executive order, but really we need to win Congress to make this happen" and then that six seconds is blown up into "Hillary coming to take your guns!" They're not even editing them to look bad anymore. Really grasping at straws.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:49 AM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


So you have the haves and the have-nots in pretty close proximity and you have a lot of bubbling tension between the two, and some of each have their own reasons for trending Republican or Democrat. And that is where we are.

So, I grew up in Philly and lived in Chester County for ~5 years, and while there is some truth to what you're saying, and I recognize that things have probably changed a lot in the decade since I moved across the state, I still think ChesCo is a lot more haves than have-nots -- at least as compared to the other counties in the Philly 5-county region, and certainly as compared to the counties outside the Pittsburgh region where there isn't as much concentrated wealth.

My only point in linking to the Politico article was to note that the outreach to college-educated suburban white women stands in contrast to the narrative a lot of media reports have tried to spin throughout the campaign.

Also we have Bam Margera. We do apologize about that.

I ran into Bam and Steve-O at Flanigan's Boathouse back when Jackass was still a thing. I had no idea who they were, but people were treating them like rock stars.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:56 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm already bored of it and I spent less than two minutes squinking

I'm not entirely certain what happened here. I think I was in the middle of finishing the comment, got a phone call and absent-mindedly hit 'Post Comment'.

The neologism "squinking" is hereby offered up to you: suggested definition "the process of squinting at a nothingburger twitter text photo in an attempt to make it not be a nothingburger".
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:58 AM on October 17, 2016 [21 favorites]



New CNN poll; WHAT IS EVEN GOING ON WITH YOU Ohio.

I was going to post something (potentially) interesting about election developments in Ohio, but you know what:

Is there a hashtag to take away the vote from men

#maybeletseatthemandturnthemintoglovesandboots


Just forget we've ever spoken.
 
posted by Herodios at 9:59 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


1pm, and I haven't heard anything about The Donald J. Trump Foundation meeting their New York filing deadline.
posted by mikelieman at 10:01 AM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


Mailed off my absentee ballot this afternoon. I've done my civic duty. I Ohio Voting, and the rest of you better not screw it up.
posted by ChuraChura at 10:05 AM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]


Welp it's out in the open now

CNN John McCain: 'I don't know' if Trump will be better for Supreme Court than Clinton
McCain promised that Republicans would be "united against any Supreme Court nominee" put forth by Clinton.
"I promise you that we will be united against any Supreme Court nominee that Hillary Clinton, if she were president, would put up," McCain said. "I promise you. This is where we need the majority and Pat Toomey is probably as articulate and effective on the floor of the Senate as anyone I have encountered."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:05 AM on October 17, 2016 [12 favorites]


McCain, lover of constitutional crises, weighs in.

VOTE THEM OUT!
posted by Yowser at 10:06 AM on October 17, 2016 [39 favorites]


1pm, and I haven't heard anything about The Donald J. Trump Foundation meeting their New York filing deadline.

If they don't what are the consequences? Because unless there's actual consequences I don't see why they would do this. Trump Foundation is a zombie going forward anyway, who's going to give money to it now that it's been shown to be a slush fund for the family? I imagine they're just going to walk away from it.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:07 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Can the NC GOP thing be its own post or taken somewhere else please?
It's not the focus of this thread.


Focus hahahahahahahahahah
posted by phearlez at 10:07 AM on October 17, 2016 [32 favorites]


1pm, and I haven't heard anything about The Donald J. Trump Foundation meeting their New York filing deadline.

It'll be an extension. Nothing will be filed today.
posted by Talez at 10:07 AM on October 17, 2016


Welp it's out in the open now

It never even crossed my mind that they wouldn't be obstructionist a-holes.
posted by diogenes at 10:07 AM on October 17, 2016 [13 favorites]


WaPo: A comprehensive investigation of voter impersonation finds 31 credible incidents out of one billion ballots cast
... ID laws are not aimed at the fraud you’ll actually hear about. Most current ID laws (Wisconsin is a rare exception) aren’t designed to stop fraud with absentee ballots (indeed, laws requiring ID at the polls push more people into the absentee system, where there are plenty of real dangers). Or vote buying. Or coercion. Or fake registration forms. Or voting from the wrong address. Or ballot box stuffing by officials in on the scam. In the 243-page document that Mississippi State Sen. Chris McDaniel filed on Monday with evidence of allegedly illegal votes in the Mississippi Republican primary, there were no allegations of the kind of fraud that ID can stop.

Instead, requirements to show ID at the polls are designed for pretty much one thing: people showing up at the polls pretending to be somebody else in order to each cast one incremental fake ballot. This is a slow, clunky way to steal an election. Which is why it rarely happens.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:09 AM on October 17, 2016 [33 favorites]


Re: NC firebombing. I'm thinking of the story in the Washington Post about the former white supremacist kid. When he was outed in college, students generally ostracized him, but one reached out and invited him to Shabbat. Remember, he was not at all reformed at this point. But that invitation created an opening.

I would like to think something similar can happen with the Democratic donations.
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 10:10 AM on October 17, 2016 [23 favorites]


"I promise you that we will be united against any Supreme Court nominee that Hillary Clinton, if she were president, would put up," McCain

I know there are some of you who think that "garbage people" is an unacceptable term because human beings cannot and should not be referred to as "less than" and certainly refuse qualifies as lesser. I posit that the above supports this only so far as the fact that garbage can decompose into compost and thereby be useful for some purpose.
posted by phearlez at 10:12 AM on October 17, 2016 [16 favorites]


Welp it's out in the open now

It never even crossed my mind that they wouldn't be obstructionist a-holes.


People really have to lose the notion that Republicans are capable of anything else.
posted by Artw at 10:12 AM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]


BTW, the Patrick Kennedy under discussion is not the former Representative and son of Ted. He's a career civil servant that worked for both Bush/Rice and Obama/Clinton at State. I'd put good money on Trump not knowing the difference, which is almost sure to blow up in his face. There's also a tweetstorm about the media presentation of the story (such as it is) here. I'll leave it up to y'all to decide if it reads more as an explanation or an excuse.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:13 AM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


"I promise you that we will be united against any Supreme Court nominee that Hillary Clinton, if she were president, would put up,"

I've been saying this since Scalia died. Either the Democrats retake the Senate, or she will not be allowed to seat a Justice. Now they're saying it openly, I'm not sure what other proof we need.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:16 AM on October 17, 2016 [49 favorites]


phearlez: I can offer "people who like to bathe in garbage juice" as an alternative, since it emphasizes said people's agency and choice, but I do admit it's not very pithy.
posted by seyirci at 10:16 AM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


Matt Furie, creator of Pepe the Frog, draws his alt-right election nightmare.

"I’m reclaiming him. He was never about hate"
posted by Artw at 10:17 AM on October 17, 2016 [20 favorites]


Do Democrats need a 60-ish seat majority to get nominees through now? Are nominations subject to that same "I'm not really gonna filibuster, I'm just gonna threaten to filibuster and that's the same thing" bullshit as regular bills?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:22 AM on October 17, 2016


Do Democrats need a 60-ish seat majority to get nominees through now? Are nominations subject to that same "I'm not really gonna filibuster, I'm just gonna threaten to filibuster and that's the same thing" bullshit as regular bills?

Filibusters are Senate rules. The Democrats will nuke filibuster rules using a majority vote on the rules then put the nominees through if Republicans decide to blindly obstruct.
posted by Talez at 10:24 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


The last time the Democrats controlled the Senate they eliminated the filibuster for all nominations except the Supreme Court (and yes, they are subject to the same filibuster rules as bills). If the Dems take over and McCain's threat comes true, then I'd expect the end of filibusters on nominations altogether.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:26 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Do Democrats need a 60-ish seat majority to get nominees through now? Are nominations subject to that same "I'm not really gonna filibuster, I'm just gonna threaten to filibuster and that's the same thing" bullshit as regular bills?

Fundamentally yes. The filibuster threat applies to just about any vote of the body of the Senate. But in this case, Garland's nomination hasn't even made it out of the Judiciary Committee. A <60 vote majority would change the chair of the committee and force the GOP to actually avoid a floor vote on Garland.
posted by dis_integration at 10:26 AM on October 17, 2016




This FBI stuff is ancient, and no charges were laid. Why does anyone care now?
posted by Yowser at 10:28 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Currently warming my heart: The New Protesters Defying Donald Trump: His Customers

To go along with that, Dodgers' first baseman Adrian Gonzalez refused to stay at the Trump hotel in Chicago when the team played there in May. (The team apparently stayed elsewhere this past weekend during the championship series because they didn't have enough time to book the place.)
posted by dnash at 10:28 AM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


Do Democrats need a 60-ish seat majority to get nominees through now?

No one knows. Harry Reid will be gone, and we don't know if Schumer will really play hardball and shutdown all business of the Senate holding them to a real filibuster like Reid never would. And there's the issue of the "nuclear option" of eliminating the filibuster entirely, which the Dems could exercise to get a SCOTUS justice confirmed. Although they also know with 100% certainty that Republicans will get the Senate back in 2018, so they may not want to hamstring themselves in the minority, and they'd probably limit it to only nominations including the Supreme Court, leaving it intact for legislation. There's a lot of moving parts.

Filibusters are Senate rules. The Democrats will nuke filibuster rules using a majority vote on the rules then put the nominees through if Republicans decide to blindly obstruct.

Well, maybe. 2018 complicates this significantly.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:29 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


phearlez: I know there are some of you who think that "garbage people" is an unacceptable term because human beings cannot and should not be referred to as "less than" and certainly refuse qualifies as lesser. I posit that the above supports this only so far as the fact that garbage can decompose into compost and thereby be useful for some purpose.

But it doesn't happen that fast - that article is the optimistic end, this is the pessimistic, or possibly realistic end (well-preserved hotdogs, heads of lettuce and guacamole found in dumps).
posted by filthy light thief at 10:30 AM on October 17, 2016


I imagine that the Trump Int'l Hotel in DC is going to be a ghost town for the January 20th weekend.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:30 AM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


This FBI stuff is ancient, and no charges were laid. Why does anyone care now?

These particular emails were released today.
posted by colt45 at 10:32 AM on October 17, 2016


So, I grew up in Philly and lived in Chester County for ~5 years, and while there is some truth to what you're saying, and I recognize that things have probably changed a lot in the decade since I moved across the state, I still think ChesCo is a lot more haves than have-nots -- at least as compared to the other counties in the Philly 5-county region, and certainly as compared to the counties outside the Pittsburgh region where there isn't as much concentrated wealth.

Oh, I'll agree with you on all of that. Flight and growth from Philadelphia went in several directions but the wealthier portion went mostly west. If you go north into Horsham-Willow Grove-Doylestown Bucks/Montgomery Counties or south into Delaware County, there's development there but a lot of it is older development, while The Rolling Hills Of Chester County[tm] was McMansion territory, spreading out from The Main Line. Exton is King of Prussia West now, with housing and shopping forking north and west from that along the highway lines. (Pennsylvania is one of many places that illustrates the Highway Rule: If you are within n miles of a major numbered highway, you're in good shape. If you're farther out from it you are increasingly likely to be in a Shit Hole.)

And the affluent areas are where more people are, as is typical. But it can drop off pretty fast. Follow US 30 west of Exton and it's pretty dramatic how quickly the property values start diving.

My only point in linking to the Politico article was to note that the outreach to college-educated suburban white women stands in contrast to the narrative a lot of media reports have tried to spin throughout the campaign.

It's what's left in eastern Pennsylvania for them to try to reach. Central PA is a wasteland of MAGA signs; ChesCo has been a Republican-trending area for ages. But you and the article are absolutely right that Trump's base isn't just guys named Cletus but has a large well-to-do component.

I ran into Bam and Steve-O at Flanigan's Boathouse back when Jackass was still a thing. I had no idea who they were, but people were treating them like rock stars.

Bam believes his own hype. So did Dunn, and he paid for it. The one that got away was Brandon DiCamillo; he'd have his own TV network by now if he didn't hate to travel so much.
posted by delfin at 10:32 AM on October 17, 2016


Damon Young at VSB: What Do You Do If Your Uber Has A Donald Trump Bumper Sticker?:
This was a question I asked myself Saturday night, as I noticed that the Uber coming to pick my wife and I up had a Trump/Pence bumper sticker on it. As many of you know, my feelings about Trump supporters are well-documented.

Bit of context: We were headed to a club to celebrate a friend’s post-wedding reception party, and caught the Uber because we both planned on drinking. Also, we were already two hours late to the party, and rushing.
posted by palindromic at 10:34 AM on October 17, 2016


Although they also know with 100% certainty that Republicans will get the Senate back in 2018, so they may not want to hamstring themselves in the minority

Arrgh. The Republicans will absolutely blow up the fillibuster as soon as it gets used for anything important anyway. I know the Dem leadership would like for the Senate to embody their shining ideal of 1955-level decorum but goddamn it, Congress isn't a Choral fucking Evensong.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:40 AM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


That the contract to redevelop the Old Post Office went to Trump is honestly a tragedy, like it really breaks my heart

I will remember it fondly as a convenient parking lot to Les Halles. And since that's gone, Ollie's Trolley.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:40 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


The Old Post Office is one of my favorite buildings in the city, if the backlash from this campaign forced him to give it up, that would be a silver lining to the whole farce.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 10:40 AM on October 17, 2016 [22 favorites]


Are you fired up? New early voting ad by Obama. :)
posted by colt45 at 10:42 AM on October 17, 2016 [35 favorites]


1. I just cast my ballot at the same early voting center as the President!

I'm quite tired/ frazzled and for a split second reading that I thought, Oh, they vote where Hillary votes. [/getting quite ahead of myself]

2. Also, per "What Do You Do If Your Uber Has A Donald Trump Bumper Sticker?" - If any of the "pre-owned" vehicles I'm shopping for have one I'll scream, "Get that thing off before I even test drive."

3. Also, eff McCain and obstructionist Rs.
posted by NorthernLite at 10:44 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Great early-voting vid from HRC team-- "I'm not fired up and ready to go. It's five o'clock in the fucking morning."

(DAMN IT colt45!)
posted by rp at 10:45 AM on October 17, 2016 [31 favorites]


I think it would be a really bad idea to nuke filibustering.

Does everyone remember we went through the same discussion several years ago, except with the Dems in minority and the GOP talking about the nuclear option, also because of supreme court nominations?

I bet I could find a metafilter thread from that time with a very different tone to the idea of removing filibuster as a strategy.
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:45 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


So... I guess we can't talk about Jared Kushner's business activities here?
posted by palomar at 10:47 AM on October 17, 2016


I'm really going to miss that guy.
posted by cmfletcher at 10:47 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


I bet I could find a metafilter thread from that time with a very different tone to the idea of removing filibuster as a strategy.

The Democrats were willing to entertain a reasonable candidate. The Republicans are threatening the same shit they did to Obama to Clinton.
posted by Talez at 10:48 AM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


By the way, there is no chance that Julian Assange could be dragged to the US and tried for treason. He is an Australian citizen, not a US citizen. He could be tried on other charges such as cyber crimes but not treason.

Is it voter suppression if people decide not to vote?

Yes. Honest tactics involve convincing people with your candidate's character and message, not fostering cynicism and hopelessness in your opponents' followers.


posted by aught at 11:12 AM on October 17

Interestingly enough, the Trump campaign used this actual phrase-- voter suppression-- to describe turning off millennial women and Blacks so much they will decide to stay home rather than vote for Clinton.
The source predicted that these attacks, coupled with Trump’s “populist message,” would help “get 10 to 15 percent of the black vote,” but said that the move was primarily an attempt to get other African-Americans to stay away from the polls on Election Day.

“Principally, doing that is about suppression of vote. Like, you know, ‘I’m not going to get out of bed. I’m not going to go vote for her,’” the source said. “It’s about the suppression of votes, just to get them to stay home. If we can pick up some votes along the way, that’s fantastic, but it’s really about the suppression of votes.”
From Donald Trump’s art of war: His campaign’s plan for dropping political ‘thermo nukes’ and suppressing votes
which was posted earlier but I can't seem to find it now.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:48 AM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]


they also know with 100% certainty that Republicans will get the Senate back in 2018

I'm not informed enough to dispute this or agree with it - can someone tell me why we're so certain of this?

I know there is far lower turnout for mid-terms than for presidential election years, and that Dems are not usually great at GOTV for mid-terms. But is there no way for Democrats to turn this around?
posted by invincible summer at 10:49 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Not a great moment for new emails to come out. Not sure if they'll stick, but if the Clinton campaign really is sitting on a few more opposition research howitzers, I'd like to see one hit between now and the debate to knock back any emailmentum that might get going. Droppo the oppo to stoppo the doccos.
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:49 AM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


This is how CNN frames the email quid-pro-quo story:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/17/politics/hillary-clinton-server-patrick-kennedy-quid-pro-quo/index.html

If this is the tone of most middle-of-the-road coverage on the subject, I'd say we have a nothingburger.
posted by condour75 at 10:49 AM on October 17, 2016


I've tried not to get the cheap high off of every double-digt poll, but this close to the election? With others surrounding it? I give up: Monmouth national poll, Hillary up by 12.
posted by argybarg at 10:50 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


Could you still filibuster the old-fashioned Mr Smith Goes to Washington way, by speaking continuously and not yielding for x amount of time?
posted by lovecrafty at 10:50 AM on October 17, 2016


I know there is far lower turnout for mid-terms than for presidential election years, and that Dems are not usually great at GOTV for mid-terms. But is there no way for Democrats to turn this around?

Also, the seats up for grabs in 2018 are mostly dems; they have more to lose.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 10:51 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm not informed enough to dispute this or agree with it - can someone tell me why we're so certain of this?

Look at the 2018 map. Democrats defend 25 seats to 8, with many of those seats held by very vulnerable incumbents, and all of the Republican seats in deep red strongholds. There are no pickup opportunities. The map is quite simply impossible.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:52 AM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]




Droppo the oppo to stoppo those doccos.

me rn
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:54 AM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


It's a delusion to think the current crop of senate Republicans wouldn't nuke the filibuster the moment it is politically convenient for them. How many times does the GOP need to demonstrate that they have zero respect for the norms that allow democracy to function before Democrats finally believe them?
posted by [expletive deleted] at 10:55 AM on October 17, 2016 [18 favorites]


Interestingly enough, the Trump campaign used this actual phrase-- voter suppression-- to describe turning off millennial women and Blacks so much they will decide to stay home rather than vote for Clinton.

The Trump Campaign also says that an 8-point deficit is an 11-point advantage, that it's okay to demean the looks of rape accusers because rape is about sexual attraction, and that the election is rigged because non-whites tend to vote against candidates that say horrible things about non-whites. I'm not so sure we should care about their rather creative use of the phrase "voter suppression" any more than we care about those other falsehoods.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:55 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Anecdata: I just spent a week in Orlando with my family, and aside from some billboards, tv commercials and one guy wearing a Trump shirt at Epcot, we Canadians would hardly have known there was an election going on...until we were in the Detroit airport this morning. My sister was in the washroom and a woman wearing a Trump t-shirt leaned towards her, said "After the election there'll be a lot fewer of *them* around!" and gestured at a non-white woman standing out of earshot. My sister, who is the best, said "That's my sister in law!" and the Trump lady looked startled and scurried off.

As someone who works with the public I've been subjected to a few racists who felt safe to assume that because I'm white I'd be racist too, but none of them used eliminationist language like that. Depressing and scary.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:56 AM on October 17, 2016 [102 favorites]


Interestingly enough, the Trump campaign used this actual phrase-- voter suppression-- to describe turning off millennial women and Blacks so much they will decide to stay home rather than vote for Clinton.

I wonder how effective that strategy is as opposed to the legal difficulties to voting which the various Republican state houses have constructed. I'd think the legal obstructions would have more of an effect than Trump's obviously self-serving bluster.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:57 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Understanding the Filibuster.

There's plenty of room for middle ground. The problem with the F at this point is that it's gone extreme, from a tool for minority voices to insure they're heard into something that it flat-out obstruction of any progress and derailing other important tasks.

Ezra Klein wrote a good piece on the F and reform ideas. Personally I like Harkin's diminishing number needed proposal.
posted by phearlez at 10:58 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Interesting story about the other Schumer -- 200 people walked out of Amy Schumer's show in Tampa after she criticized Trump.
posted by mudpuppie at 10:59 AM on October 17, 2016 [13 favorites]




It's looking like the GOP is willing to buy into the Election Was Rigged / Lock Her Up version of reality if they can use it as a justification for denying Clinton's right to govern. It's Birtherism under a different name, but now it's infecting the entire party.
posted by theodolite at 11:00 AM on October 17, 2016 [13 favorites]


So... I guess we can't talk about Jared Kushner's business activities here?

You posted a link that had already been posted; I deleted it. There's nothing wrong with the topic, there's just a lot of folks double-posting stuff and we're trying to trim that where we can.
posted by cortex at 11:00 AM on October 17, 2016 [25 favorites]


The arena Schumer played seats over 20,000. They've had bigger walk outs when the Tampa Bay lightning give up a short handed goal.
posted by cmfletcher at 11:03 AM on October 17, 2016 [41 favorites]


I'm not looking forward to finding out if my cable provider is cool with carrying the Too Explicitly Racist For Even Fox News Network
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:05 AM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]


Interesting post on what will happen after the election: Our Future is in Paul Ryan's Hands
posted by wittgenstein at 11:06 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


It's looking like the GOP is willing to buy into the Election Was Rigged / Lock Her Up version of reality if they can use it as a justification for denying Clinton's right to govern. It's Birtherism under a different name, but now it's infecting the entire party.

I heard about 5 minutes of Rush today; his big push at that point was clarifying that when Trump says the election is rigged, he means that the media elites are conspiring against him, and when Giuliani talks about it being rigged, it's because of all the dead people voting, and we all know how the dead only vote D. Also that all of the hand-wringing about undermining democracy is all just liberal crybabies doing liberal crybaby things.
posted by rp at 11:10 AM on October 17, 2016


The problem with Drum's scenario is the idea that Ryan can explain to the Tea Party representatives that they're done being power brokers and that's the end of hyper-partisan tactics among the GOP leadership. Nobody's afraid of the Tea Party congressmen, they're afraid of Tea Party voters who will primary the daylights out of them for failing to challenge the evil Democrats on whether the sky is blue. A stern talking-to won't solve that. Hell, even an all-out GOP civil war might not. At minimum he'd need buy-in from all the media groups that have fed Trump's rise, in order to change the narrative they see.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:14 AM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


NYT: Donald Trump Reveals Evangelical Rifts That Could Shape Politics for Years

While most of the religious right’s aging old guard has chosen to stand by Mr. Trump, its judgment and authority are being challenged by an increasingly assertive crop of younger leaders, minorities and women... The fault lines among evangelicals that the election of 2016 has exposed — among generations, ethnic groups and sexes — are likely to reshape national politics for years to come, conservative Christian leaders and analysts said last week in interviews. Arguments that were once private are now public, and agendas are no longer clear.

Also:

The evangelicals now challenging the old guard tend to have a broader agenda. They see it as a Christian imperative to care for immigrants and refugees, the poor, the environment and victims of sex trafficking and sexual abuse. Many support criminal justice reform and the aims of the Black Lives Matter movement. While ardently opposed to abortion, some are inclined to be more accepting of same-sex marriage. “The next generation of evangelicals craves a less partisan, less divisive and more racially inclusive expression of political engagement that addresses concern on a range of issues, not just abortion and gay marriage.”
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:15 AM on October 17, 2016 [19 favorites]




At minimum he'd need buy-in from all the media groups that have fed Trump's rise, in order to change the narrative they see.

And there's too much money to be made by defrauding terrified rubes to change the FEAR AFRAID FEAR tactics of the right wing media. Who will buy all the gold coins, guns, Ann Coulter books and day trading courses if they stop terrifying the basest of bases?
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:17 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


Too Explicitly Racist For Even Fox News Network

Besides Fox, there's already Newsmax and the Blaze channels. Maybe the market share is there, but at some point slicing the Angry White Nut Job demo even smaller is going to provide diminishing returns.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:18 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


I Hardly Expected My Letter to Donald Trump to Go Viral by David McCraw (NYT attorney)
posted by melissasaurus at 11:19 AM on October 17, 2016 [20 favorites]


Larry Flynt is offering up to $1MIL for "scandalous audio or video footage of Donald Trump"

Um. His rallies? All of them?
posted by Spathe Cadet at 11:20 AM on October 17, 2016 [39 favorites]


>Do Democrats need a 60-ish seat majority to get nominees through now?

>>No one knows.


This is not really true. The new Senate immediately gets to vote on new Senate rules with a simple majority. They can (and almost certainly will) nuke the filibuster from orbit. Now, whether it gets brought back in 2 or 4 years is an open question, but if the Dems win the Senate they can immediately eliminate the filibuster for at least 2 years.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:22 AM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


Besides Fox, there's already Newsmax and the Blaze channels. Maybe the market share is there, but at some point slicing the Angry White Nut Job demo even smaller is going to provide diminishing returns.

I actually noticed another one in my FiOS guide the other day -- something called "One America News Network." I shudder to think of what an escalating arms race between these outlets would look like.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:24 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


MetaFilter: a morass of edge cases and nothingburgers.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:25 AM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


New Clinton ad for lawyers.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:25 AM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


I Hardly Expected My Letter to Donald Trump to Go Viral by David McCraw (NYT attorney)

I, for one, will not stand with the New York Times until its lawyer categorically rejects and repents for the idea that one would ever use two spaces after a period.
posted by zachlipton at 11:26 AM on October 17, 2016 [15 favorites]


Suppose we don't win back control of the Senate though? Are we just going to have a 8 member Supreme Court until we have Republican President?
posted by peacheater at 11:27 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


: I just spent a week in Orlando with my family, and aside from some billboards, tv commercials and one guy wearing a Trump shirt at Epcot, we Canadians would hardly have known there was an election going on

I was just in a very sleepy Old Florida section of Southwest Florida and it looked for all the world to be a midterm election year because there were plenty of signs for state offices but like two Trump signs anywhere (and zero Clinton). Oh, and one "Trump: No More Bullshit!" flag on some dude's boat that we kayaked past. I'm sure he was feeling a lot of economic anxiety on his 30 foot pleasure boat anchored in a State Park for some weekend brewskis with the family.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:28 AM on October 17, 2016 [22 favorites]


The Democrats will nuke filibuster rules using a majority vote on the rules then put the nominees through if Republicans decide to blindly obstruct.

Personally, I find the best tool for me on "Do I want this expansion of power?" is to think about it not as it's intending to be used, but as it could be used, if the worst people were in power. This is, for example, one of the reasons I've disagreed with a lot of Obama's executive orders - not the subject matter, but the expansion of executive power. Do I like the president deferring a lot of deportations, for example? Yes! Absolutely! But a president having the power unilaterally decide to keep deportations from happening en masse also gives the next president - which this year, could have been Trump - the power to, say, unilaterally decide to speed up or increase deportations.

Similarly, no matter who is in charge - and the Senate has switched hands many times over my lifetime - I always, always, oppose nuking the filibuster. Because there are going to be some terrible things that can get 51% support, but not 60%. Always. We may not see them coming, or the circumstances that may give rise to them, but they will exist.

At the same time, obstructionism for obstructionism's sake really needs to be dealt with.

Honestly, the best thing that could be done would be a two-step process. First, both sides of the aisle would need to stop adding random stuff to bills having nothing whatsoever to do with it in an attempt to either sneak things through or force the opposition to vote against a popular bill. The solution to obstructionism on desired bills is not, for the love of all that is holy, to add everything to the budget bill as an amendment because after all, a budget HAS to be passed, right?

Secondly - we need to be willing to censure legislators who publicly say that they're just going to deny everything the other party proposes. That is not how functioning democracy works, and if you're going to refuse everything the other party comes up with, including reasonable, bipartisan bills, you have no business being a legislator.
posted by corb at 11:29 AM on October 17, 2016 [30 favorites]


I, for one, will not stand with the New York Times until its lawyer categorically rejects and repents for the idea that one would ever use two spaces after a period.

And I was really starting to like you.  Sad!
posted by tonycpsu at 11:30 AM on October 17, 2016 [32 favorites]




The GOP is going to have a hard time arguing that the election was rigged, because as noted above it runs an awful lot of the state elections. The Ohio Secretary of State is particularly unamused by Trump's bluster -

“The idea of widespread voter fraud would require some systemic problem in our system, and so if there's a systemic problem, please identify it. Don't just make an allegation on Twitter. Tell me, tell the secretaries of state around the country what the problem is so that we can fix it,” Husted said. “But right now we're not aware of any systemic problems in our voting system. Are there cases of voter fraud? Absolutely, there are cases of voter fraud. But it's rare, and we catch these people. Most times we catch them before their vote is even counted. And we hold them accountable. And we're building the better system every single day.”

posted by Devonian at 11:31 AM on October 17, 2016 [41 favorites]


A million dollars a tape? I half-suspect Donald will turn over a thousand or so of his sex tapes. Finally, he'll be a billionaire.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:31 AM on October 17, 2016 [47 favorites]


Suppose we don't win back control of the Senate though? Are we just going to have a 8 member Supreme Court until we have Republican President?

Yes.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:31 AM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


8 member Supreme Court until we have Republican President

Yes, 8. Then 7. Then 6. etc.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 11:33 AM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]


Sad!

Man, I know a lot of people use this to make fun of Trump, but am I the only one who finds themselves cringing every time we repeat his language, as though it were a memetic disease that would eventually hollow us out from the inside?
posted by corb at 11:35 AM on October 17, 2016 [37 favorites]


Ginsburg for last Archlich-Justice standing!
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:36 AM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]


Larry Flynt is offering up to $1MIL for "scandalous audio or video footage of Donald Trump"

Great, I guess, but I suspect Taibbi is right: there's nowhere lower for this to go save kids or cannibalism, and whatever's on video aside from that or literal murder is unlikely to move the needle. Though of course I am curious what the rumored "worse" oppo is that people were talking about last week. Surely if anyone has it they'll be dropping it before the last debate? Or maybe after to cut off any "Trump won the debate!" talk.
posted by yasaman at 11:36 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Man, I know a lot of people use this to make fun of Trump, but am I the only one who finds themselves cringing every time we repeat his language, as though it were a memetic disease that would eventually hollow us out from the inside?

Trumpypool
posted by leotrotsky at 11:37 AM on October 17, 2016 [24 favorites]


Man, I know a lot of people use this to make fun of Trump, but am I the only one who finds themselves cringing every time we repeat his language, as though it were a memetic disease that would eventually hollow us out from the inside?

Feels bad, ma'am.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:37 AM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]


I actually noticed another one in my FiOS guide the other day -- something called "One America News Network." I shudder to think of what an escalating arms race between these outlets would look like.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:24 AM on October 17 [+] [!]


This his an excellent hate watch, though. It's all show about selling yachts and planes to rich people of varying degrees of evilness and eccentricity. Better than House Hunters International.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:38 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


As for the new FBI emails, I'm putting my chips on nothingburger. Trump spent this week saying that Hillary would stop at nothing to destroy our civilization. I don't see how parsing the details of classification arguments is going to rile up the base any further.
posted by diogenes at 11:39 AM on October 17, 2016


They see it as a Christian imperative to care for immigrants and refugees, the poor, the environment and victims of sex trafficking and sexual abuse.

Gosh, it's almost like there's a major political party that cares about those things and they chose the wrong party.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:40 AM on October 17, 2016 [46 favorites]


am I the only one who finds themselves cringing every time we repeat his language, as though it were a memetic disease that would eventually hollow us out from the inside?


it's tremendous language, the very best language, believe me!
posted by entropicamericana at 11:40 AM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]




Apparently, Ted Cruz tweeted a Conservative Review column by Daniel Horowitz that, among other things, warns of "mandated sex change operations" by 2020 if Clinton isn't stopped. Now the Cruz folks say they didn't post the tweet and they are asking Twitter to investigate who did. In other news, there's a Daniel Horowitz column that says they'll be "mandated sex change operations" by 2020 if Clinton isn't stopped. So yeah, weird morning.
posted by zachlipton at 11:41 AM on October 17, 2016 [17 favorites]


ahahaha tHe rHizzone has lost its damn head

Jesus, goatstein isn't even a communist. Where are the mods when you need them?
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 11:43 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Similarly, no matter who is in charge - and the Senate has switched hands many times over my lifetime - I always, always, oppose nuking the filibuster. Because there are going to be some terrible things that can get 51% support, but not 60%. Always. We may not see them coming, or the circumstances that may give rise to them, but they will exist.

Right, but that time has passed. The Republicans destroyed it through abuse.

The filibuster is gone. McCain has already promised that a republican senate would prevent ANY USSJs from being appointed under a Clinton White House.

Filibuster goes. The Supreme Court will sink any super crazy stuff they put up when they retake the Senate in 2018 (which they will), and in a decade the Republicans will be completely swamped by demographics and court rulings (Citizens United, Voter Disenfranchisement, etc).

We've got two years. Hopefully we can seat four justices in that time, but I'll settle for three.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:46 AM on October 17, 2016 [17 favorites]


ahahaha tHe rHizzone has lost its damn head

When Green Party tweets are virtually indistinguishable from Trump tweets, is this really so surprising?
posted by zachlipton at 11:47 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


ahahaha tHe rHizzone has lost its damn head

Jesus, goatstein isn't even a communist. Where are the mods when you need them?
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 11:43 AM on October 17 [+] [!]


My bedtime story tonight will be reading the 2008 archives of Toblerone Triangular. I already know how it ends, but the journey is way worth it.
posted by asockpuppet at 11:47 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


T. D. Strange: Either the Democrats retake the Senate, or she will not be allowed to seat a Justice. Now they're saying it openly, I'm not sure what other proof we need.

I'd love to know what Chief Justice Roberts thinks of this. He's got to be seriously pissed off right now. He's presiding over a Supreme Court that is being neutered by the congressional Republicans.
posted by Surely This at 11:49 AM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


If I were to guess, the Democrats will set rules to remove filibusters for judicial appointments and flag/general officer nominations. Who's going to go out and attack a senator for making it harder to have the generals and admirals we need to fight?
posted by cmfletcher at 11:50 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


You guys. So there's a Trump board game from 1989, and the instructions (PDF) have a "Trump Tip" on most pages. The Trump Tip on page 6?
During the game, try not to reveal your total cash holdings to your opponents. That way, it will be harder for them to tell if you're cash rich or poor.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 11:51 AM on October 17, 2016 [58 favorites]


Now the Cruz folks say they didn't post the tweet and they are asking Twitter to investigate who did.

Cruz has been extremely hostile towards LGBTQ people, including a scarily similar rant accusing the Obama administration of forcing schools into making boys shower with girls. And that's before his other really nasty anti-LGBTQ actions like jumping onto the current bathroom panic train, repeatedly accusing trans people of being child molesters, and speaking at events run by people who have called for the genocide of LGBTQ Americans.

Color me unconvinced that this wasn't at the very least posted a member of his staff.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:51 AM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


Above Trump Tip: [real]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 11:52 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Apparently, Ted Cruz tweeted a Conservative Review column by Daniel Horowitz that, among other things, warns of "mandated sex change operations" by 2020 if Clinton isn't stopped.

I'm not sure what's crazier, mandatory sex changes or the idea that the Republican congress is going to roll over and give Hillary everything she wants.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:54 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'd love to know what Chief Justice Roberts thinks of this. He's got to be seriously pissed off right now. He's presiding over a Supreme Court that is being neutered by the congressional Republicans.

I'm sure he's appalled. I don't doubt many Senate Republicans are also appalled, but they're so terrified of their base they can't do anything else.

The actions and decisions of office-holding Republican are almost entirely reactive at this point. That's why there's such a policy vacuum; you have no idea what their next litmus test will be, you don't want to risk getting it wrong (like Rubio on immigration) because the base will crucify you. It's like the French Revolution over there; at any point the mob can turn on you.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:56 AM on October 17, 2016 [19 favorites]


Great work, Trump campaign! Trump campaign left out of Alaska voter guide
Alaskans won’t find any information about Donald Trump in their voter’s guide this year, after the GOP presidential nominee's campaign failed to submit biographical data and a candidate statement.

The voter guide, which hit mailboxes this weekend, includes candidate statements from Democrats Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine, Green Party nominee Jill Stein and her running mate, Ajamu Baraka, the Constitution Party nominee and an independent candidate. But state elections officials say the Trump campaign and Libertarian nominee Gary Johnson did not submit materials ahead of an Aug. 30 deadline.
It's unlikely to matter much (he's still on the ballot of course, and who decides on their Presidential vote based on reading a few paragraphs in the voter guide?), but this is the kind of thing competent campaigns manage to get right.
posted by zachlipton at 11:56 AM on October 17, 2016 [39 favorites]


If I were to guess, the Democrats will set rules to remove filibusters for judicial appointments and flag/general officer nominations. Who's going to go out and attack a senator for making it harder to have the generals and admirals we need to fight?

I would honestly 100% endorse this. I mean - bad generals and judges are a real problem, but if someone is appointed that's truly egregious, there are procedures to remove bad generals and judges and you don't have to deal with precedent to do that. There is a limit to the damage a terrible judge or a terrible general can do, while there's no limit to the damage a bad law can do.
posted by corb at 11:57 AM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


ahahaha tHe rHizzone has lost its damn head

"We had to destroy the village to save it" is always a popular tune. And even more popular among those who lack the potency to do either.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:58 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


> and an independent candidate.

Egg?
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:59 AM on October 17, 2016


Holy shit, y'all, I'm trying to write a dystopian specfic novel about a super-grim bio-essientalist future and the goddamn Republicans keep matching my fucking plotline and this IS NOT FUCKING OKAY, OKAY.
posted by Annika Cicada at 11:59 AM on October 17, 2016 [52 favorites]


I used to have the Trump board game. I hate that I gave it away five years ago.
posted by EarBucket at 12:03 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


the idea that the Republican congress is going to roll over and give Hillary everything she wants.

Much as it pains me to admit, with the Trumpkins voting for Democrats in order to punish Republicans who are opposing Trump, and the reasonable Republicans staying home and pouring Bailey's on their cheerios, I don't think you're going to have to worry about a Republican house.
posted by corb at 12:03 PM on October 17, 2016 [16 favorites]


Yeah I'd be fine with removing the filibuster for any advise & consent issue. The slots need to be filled, and so long as there can still be hearings to really air out the garbage I'm not too worried about it. Bork was stopped without resorting to the filibuster and mediocre Thomas got through so clearly it's not a fix for everything nor necessary to accomplish stopping awful candidates.

As an image thing I think you can do a lot worse than making a statement that the Senate is going to commit to up and down votes and actually take the advise part seriously, rather than simply doing nothing.
posted by phearlez at 12:04 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


I have a weekly lunch with a close friend who's like-minded politically, but follows the election less than I do. Generally lunch conversation comes around to the 2016 horrorshow, and today we were talking about close elections in Georgia, Alaska, and Texas. He pulled up the 538 page to see for himself, and confusedly asked "Who's Evan McMullin?" I nearly spit ice coffee out of my nose.
posted by codacorolla at 12:06 PM on October 17, 2016 [27 favorites]


I have a copy of that game still in shrink wrap I was planning on putting on eBay, though the prices aren't very good, and there is some damage to the box. There is a place where something was dropped on it--fittingly, he has a hole in his head.
posted by thebrokedown at 12:07 PM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


Great early-voting vid from HRC team
New Clinton ad for lawyers.


Well, I've genuinely lol'd twice today at two campaign ads. Well done, campaign team.
posted by phunniemee at 12:07 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


I also used to have a copy of the Trump board game, though I sold it unopened on eBay years ago. I wonder when the optimal time to sell it was/would be? At the height of his popularity in the polls or years from now after his crushing defeat?
posted by Soliloquy at 12:08 PM on October 17, 2016


both sides of the aisle would need to stop adding random stuff to bills having nothing whatsoever to do with it in an attempt to either sneak things through or force the opposition to vote against a popular bill

Amendments in the House of Representatives are required to be germane to the bill, but they're not required to be germane in the Senate.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:10 PM on October 17, 2016


I'm not sure the timing matters. There's always urinals to be found.
posted by phearlez at 12:10 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Trump Foundation got an extension from the NY AG (they declined to say how much extra time).
posted by melissasaurus at 12:12 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


Sell it now. In 6 months he'll be trying to unload crates of unsold units he keeps up in the attic of the model home.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:12 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


I wonder when the optimal time to sell it was/would be?

It's like planting a tree--the optimal time is 1989, but the second-best time is right now.
posted by box at 12:13 PM on October 17, 2016 [13 favorites]


"We had to destroy the village to save it" is always a popular tune. And even more popular among those who lack the potency to do either.

I won't defend a forum post from the fringiest splinter of Something Awful's fringe political forum, but the crux of the argument is not that voting Trump will bring the system down, but that Trump would arrest Clinton if he became president, which, the argument says, would be good. Anyway, the people on that forum are in general extremely and correctly mad at America for destroying Vietnamese villages to save Vietnam.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 12:14 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


If T. Greg Doucette is correct, the NCGOP fracas just got a whole lot weirder. For those that can't access Twitter or want a summary, the office that was firebombed probably held completed absentee ballots. The kicker is that anyone who is not a "near relative" or legal guardian that gains possession of a completed ballot is guilty of a Class I felony according to NC (and possibly federal) law.

It seems, like a lot of what Trump says, the current conservative party line about voter fraud may be a projection. That it's used in the service of voter disenfranchisement and suppression, even to conservatives not allied with Trump, is exactly the kind of thing feeding his current rhetoric. You built this, conservatives, time to own up and start changing your tune.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:15 PM on October 17, 2016 [54 favorites]


For those that can't access Twitter or want a summary, the office that was firebombed probably held completed absentee ballots.

NCGOP spokesperson said they only had sample ballots and the newsstation/whoever misreported it.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:16 PM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


I won't defend a forum post from the fringiest splinter of Something Awful's fringe political forum, but the crux of the argument is not that voting Trump will bring the system down, but that Trump would arrest Clinton if he became president, which, the argument says, would be good.

And because Trump would never, ever engage in the behaviors that Clinton did because [citation needed].
posted by delfin at 12:17 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


(This is quite the derail, but. The game is not the more popular one that seems to be the one most people want. It has never done great, but the prices have fallen since I got it 4 months ago. Plus, it doesn't sell quickly.)
posted by thebrokedown at 12:19 PM on October 17, 2016


And because Trump would never, ever engage in the behaviors that Clinton did because [citation needed].

Yeah. It's a dumb post.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 12:19 PM on October 17, 2016


we need to be willing to censure legislators who publicly say that they're just going to deny everything the other party proposes

QFT.
posted by tilde at 12:21 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


NCGOP spokesperson said they only had sample ballots and the newsstation/whoever misreported it.

The old guy with the accent that made me want a country ham biscuit in a video I saw said they had sample ballots and signs, nothing about actual ballots.

He also took care to emphasize that the graffiti was too tall to have been made by a child, which was odd.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:21 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Why would a political-organization office hold completed absentee ballots? Turn them in to the voting office, every single day.
posted by tilde at 12:23 PM on October 17, 2016


Plus, it doesn't sell quickly

may i suggest stuffing it into a wicker man and setting it ablaze
posted by poffin boffin at 12:23 PM on October 17, 2016 [12 favorites]


I'm sure he's appalled. I don't doubt many Senate Republicans are also appalled, but they're so terrified of their base they can't do anything else.

Wouldn't it be funny if a single voting bloc made up of this country's historically most socially privileged groups was able to paralyze both political parties and all three branches of government with a years-long, occasionally violent tantrum about how they feel "marginalized?"
posted by EatTheWeek at 12:24 PM on October 17, 2016 [37 favorites]


Is there a problem with swastika-graffitting children in North Carolina?
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:25 PM on October 17, 2016 [14 favorites]


At last count, I own two 1989 copies of Trump, and gifted a someone a third (also 1989 because he didn't want the 'new one'.

Haven't actually played in a dozen years (don't think I ever lost) .... and am only so "good" because I honed my skills on Monopoly and if I recall correctly, the rules are rigged that you win when you make everyone else lose.

Looks like the 1989 Sealed ones aren't going for much very fast on eBay. Maybe if DJT does ropelines and you get him to sign one ...
posted by tilde at 12:27 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


He also took care to emphasize that the graffiti was too tall to have been made by a child, which was odd.

But what if it was three children, sitting on each other's shoulders totem pole style, wearing a long trenchcoat?
posted by delfin at 12:27 PM on October 17, 2016 [59 favorites]


but that Trump would arrest Clinton if he became president, which, the argument says, would be good

Who needs Trump? Any nutcase worth their tinfoil hat knows they can just assemble a Common Law Grand Jury and issue an arrest warrant of their own.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:27 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


So my happy election story is that there are young Muslims who have been successfully encouraged to run for minor elected office in Michigan. As you all know, getting your foot in the door as a member of a school board or library board can be a good first stepping stone to more significant political careers.
posted by bardophile at 12:28 PM on October 17, 2016 [33 favorites]


the rules are rigged that you win when you make everyone else lose

Well that's a bit on-the-nose, isn't it?
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:28 PM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


Could they mean "children" as in preteens?

I remember lots of swastikas and white supremacist graffiti in junior high adjacent spaces when I was a kid in the rural/exurban South. More than I've ever seen in my adult life.

Then again, most 12-14 year olds are close enough to adult height that this wouldn't be a distinction.
posted by Sara C. at 12:29 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Something Awful Trump threads in DND and CSPAM(renamed the Ken Bone Zone for great reasons) are actually pretty good. There were serious Trump supporters like 6 months ago but now it's just watching the Trumpster fire and shitposting and listening to Scottish pop bands and talking about election-involved people with names which a 6-year-old would find funny (Ken Bone, Mike Crapo, etc etc)
posted by hleehowon at 12:29 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Bernie trolls Ryan.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:31 PM on October 17, 2016 [47 favorites]


Trump Foundation got an extension from the NY AG (they declined to say how much extra time).

This is annoying (I wanted more tax revelations!) but very reasonable. If the foundation is not guilty of bizarre and extreme tax fraud - which has to be what the state uses as a starting premise, "innocent until" and all that - then this is a matter of misfiled paperwork: the TF wasn't planning to solicit funds so it used the "no solicitation" category (or: they originally didn't solicit, and filed updates that just copied the original); status changed but they didn't re-file; solution: re-file with correct details, including disclosures as necessary.

This is a bog-standard bureaucracy foulup, more often caused by changing secretaries without documentation than any intentional malfeasance.

In this particular case, I don't tend to believe that it's caused by "oops we forgot to update the form when we changed our activities" - but that speculation is outside of the scope of the initial order. The Foundation can't solicit funds for now, and they're allowed to drag their feet (claiming, "dude, geeze, we got an ELECTION to do here; don' have time to dredge through years of financial files that Merideth was managing require specialised skills to sort out"), or just point out that they've got complicated finances and a few extra weeks is reasonable.

So: disappointed, not surprised, and not dismayed.

Will be watching for the eventual results, because this is the kind of bureaucratic demand that doesn't go away. I don't expect Prenda-level entertainment from it (there just aren't enough people involved) but the eventual revelations should still be popcorn-worthy.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:31 PM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


Yeah. It's a dumb post.

CEASE THIS APOLOGIA IMMEDIATELY
posted by beerperson at 12:31 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


Here is the set list for tonight's Broadway/Stronger Together line up. I can only IMAGINE what they are doing with Wilkommen.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:32 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


Trump: 96% of donations from journalists go to Clinton

It's not like you've decided to openly declare war on their profession or anything.
posted by Talez at 12:33 PM on October 17, 2016 [40 favorites]




I used to have the Trump board game. I hate that I gave it away five years ago.

I used to have a personally inscribed TRUMP: THE GAME, given to me by the man himself. I'd built kind of a hate-shrine around it in my room, early-90s style, wreathing it in barbed wire and fake snakes. This entire election season I've wondered what I did with it. I guess it got lost in one of my many, many moves.

BTW, graphologists and armchair Freudians would have an absolute field day with Trump's signature. It looks like a field of daggers, like nothing so much in the world as if he'd modeled it on Heinrich Himmler's penmanship.
posted by adamgreenfield at 12:35 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


>He also took care to emphasize that the graffiti was too tall to have been made by a child, which was odd.

"You see, Watson, these marks cannot have been made by a child; this is the imprint of a callused hand, made by a working man, probably a Democrat."

Now enjoying mental image of cannily squinting Trump wearing a Deerstalker cap, and smoking a pipe.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:35 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


A Trump disciple tells a reporter that "Hillary needs to be taken out." Says, "If I have to be a patriot, I will."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:34 PM on October 17 [+] [!]

I hope the Secret Service follows up on every single one of these.
posted by prefpara at 12:36 PM on October 17, 2016 [61 favorites]


It's like the French Revolution over there; at any point the mob can turn on you.
posted by leotrotsky


Weird that you used the French revolution as your example
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:37 PM on October 17, 2016 [23 favorites]


Here is the set list for tonight's Broadway/Stronger Together line up.

No Springtime for Hitler?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:37 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


I think Hillary Clinton is probably the best-defended presidential candidate in history. I mean, I understand the fear - trust me - but I think she's probably pretty safe.
posted by corb at 12:38 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


John McCain has already folded on Supreme Court hearings. "Senator McCain will, of course, thoroughly examine the record of any Supreme Court nominee put before the Senate and vote for or against that individual based on their qualifications as he has done throughout his career." ...except for Merrick Garland.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:39 PM on October 17, 2016 [17 favorites]


I just voted. Submitted mine and mr. antinomia's ballots at the BOE. Felt. so. good.
posted by antinomia at 12:39 PM on October 17, 2016 [18 favorites]


Bernie trolls Ryan.
This delights me.

In other news, AJ Delgado was on today talking about the Democratic shenanigans in the 1960 elections. I keep thinking of Jon Stewart's plaintive request: Stop. Stop hurting America.
posted by xyzzy at 12:40 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Donald Trump Is on a Presidential Death March We’ve Never Seen Before
Donald Trump is going to lose this election. His campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway, is going to lose this election. Even if they would never admit it, they know Donald Trump will never be president. Trump and Conway are on the political death march.
...
This is the part of a losing campaign that exposes the true character of all those involved. So it should come as no shock that Donald Trump and his staff are failing this test in the most shameful and divisive manner imaginable.
...
The death march is why Conway has begun to resurrect a time-honored practice: duplicitous political operatives throwing their boss under the bus to try to save face.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:43 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


John McCain has already folded on Supreme Court hearings. "Senator McCain will, of course, thoroughly examine the record of any Supreme Court nominee put before the Senate ...

/em starts writing postcards to Senators and Congresserz for a lame-duck Merrick Garland hearing ...
posted by tilde at 12:43 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


McCain is only telling the truth about considering individual records if you consider that they would probably hold a vote on some pro-life uberconservative judge that the Republicans handpicked for her to nominate. I fully believe that he let his mask slip earlier and told the truth about the Republicans not considering any Clinton USSC nominees. Anyone who thinks otherwise after the last couple of months is not paying attention to what this party has become.
posted by gatorae at 12:44 PM on October 17, 2016 [15 favorites]


Press Secretary Josh Earnest FTW:
In case you can’t watch, a reporter asked our hero about Trump’s ridiculous call for Hillary Clinton to take a drug test prior to the next debate because she was all “pumped up” during the last (presumably, “pumped up” being a euphemism for “kicked Trump’s ass”). Earnest replied:
You’re telling me that the candidate who snorted his way through the first two debates is accusing the other candidate of taking drugs? That’s a curious development in the campaign.
posted by palindromic at 12:44 PM on October 17, 2016 [42 favorites]


Field report: calling local Ds again. I had a hot list, managing to get hold of nearly half the people on it (rare during daytime calling.) I stopped keeping track of how many volunteers I've recruited (somewhere in the teens, easily.) Anyhoo, I kept getting odd situations. One guy had moved to another county, but was eager to volunteer. Two people I called back-to-back had already volunteered in the same office I was in (our lists sometimes sit for a few days before someone gets to them.)

The weirdest, though, was when I was wrapping up and discovered my S.O.'s name was at the bottom of my last page! I dutifully called (scared the crap out of her--we don't do that) and ran through the script. Strong 1, but a soft commitment to volunteer.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:46 PM on October 17, 2016 [75 favorites]


A Trump disciple tells a reporter that "Hillary needs to be taken out." Says, "If I have to be a patriot, I will."

Man, none of these people know how to lock down their Facebooks. So easily findable.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:47 PM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


sorry in advance if this is a little dark but if somebody tried to shoot her and she was saved by a bulletproof vest I can totally see media/GOP sniffing about how she's "overprepared"
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:48 PM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


So there's some shit going down with Assange's net being down (Wikileaks claims cut by state actor)

The state actor was Ecuador. "No Julian, you can't have the new wi-fi password. Wash your damn dishes."

This is as good a time as any to link to David Rees' portrayal of Julian Assange as a terrible houseguest.

(Also you should listen to Rees' podcast Election Profit Makers which is fantastic. I know I have plugged this several times already, but it really is so good. The last episode made the very cogent point that actual locker room talk doesn't sound like the Access Hollywood tape; it sounds like his policy proposals: "You know what we should do, bro? We should fucking defeat ISIS!")
posted by compartment at 12:49 PM on October 17, 2016 [29 favorites]


So apparently the "State actor" cutting off Assange's internet is Ecuador, whose house he's living in. Maybe they got a bill or he wouldn't do the dishes or something.
posted by Artw at 12:49 PM on October 17, 2016 [13 favorites]


The Trump board game was reviewed by Ars Technica recently. They were ... not enthusiastic.
posted by ckape at 12:50 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Dammit, beaten on the dishes joke.
posted by Artw at 12:50 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Donald Trump Is on a Presidential Death March We’ve Never Seen Before (reposting to add link)
I cannot overstate this enough: This is not your typical death march.

... Trump does not place value in virtue. There will be no trying to go out with his head held high. There is only the low road. There is only an emotional toddler lashing out because he hasn’t been given what he wants.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:51 PM on October 17, 2016 [16 favorites]


Interestingly enough, the Trump campaign used this actual phrase-- voter suppression

Of course they did, and a not small part of the observation I was making - or trying to make, since people seemed not to get that - was that, the more folks on the left crow about how happy it would make them if 20% of the right's base possibly sat out the election in disillusionment, the more we can be painted as not supporting a robust democratic process where all voters feel comfortable participating, something which puts us in the ballpark of the underhanded proponents of vote suppression. To my mind we (lefties) don't want to go there, especially if it looks like Clinton can win on the strength of her platform and the weakness - or absence - of Trump's.
posted by aught at 12:51 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


I don't think it was dishes, I think Assange was eating someone's snacks and not replacing them.
posted by tilde at 12:51 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


In Being John Malkovich, a scraggly puppeteer discovers, in the file room of his day job, a small wooden door that leads to a tunnel that leads into the mind of John Malkovich. Soon, people are lining up to pay $200 for a 15-minute trip. When the actor himself discovers the operation, he storms into the file room and demands to try it...

Though Trump is a sexist and a xenophobe, the primary thing is not animus toward women or any specific group. And though he is a narcissist, the primary thing is not that he wants to inflate himself. The key thing with Trump is his relationship with himself, a sort of exclusive relationship that seems to crowd out the possibility of actual relation. I mean “relation” in the Martin Buber sense, the true glimpsing, regarding, considering of an other. Trump’s self is surrounded by moats and barbed wire and cannons. His essential psychological quality is a peculiar style of solipsism, the heart of both his appeal and his danger.

It’s telling that the best way to capture this is a baroque metaphor from fiction. When Malkovich goes through the portal, he sees, through a kind of goggle vision, a restaurant where every single person looks like a version of him — there is him with breasts in a low-cut dress; there is him in a maître d’s tuxedo. And every word that every person speaks — the intonations make clear that they are not mouthing syllables but actually communicating — is the word “Malkovich.”

In the movie, the “real” John Malkovich is horrified and scrambles out of the room. By contrast, I think Trump is horrified anytime he is not in that restaurant. He is horrified when any word spoken is not his name.
Somebody That He Trusts and Likes: Inside Donald Trump's Mind
posted by y2karl at 12:52 PM on October 17, 2016 [35 favorites]


the more folks on the left crow about how happy it would make them if 20% of the right's base possibly sat out the election in disillusionment, the more we can be painted as not supporting a robust democratic process where all voters feel comfortable participating

I think it's possible to read too much into the word salad nonsense of utter liars.
posted by Artw at 12:54 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Dammit, beaten on the dishes joke.

Amusingly, no one seems to have made the joke to their twitter acct, so I went ahead and did so. Someone's got to ridicule these asshats.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:55 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


my inside sources are telling me Assange just went and up and got a bearded dragon from Petco without even asking if that was okay and he doesn't even take care of the fucking thing now and here's Ecuador feeding the goddamn bearded dragon crickets because it feels bad for it while Assange holes up in his room Skyping his creepy Russian friend and listening to terrible music
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:56 PM on October 17, 2016 [67 favorites]


The state actor was Ecuador. "No Julian, you can't have the new wi-fi password. Wash your damn dishes."

I really do wonder about the logistics and financing of his claiming long-term sanctuary in the embassy. Presumably he has to pay for his own food, I expect by means of his fans, but do they shop for him? Is there rent? Coin-op laundry? I suspect that if someone other than a distinguished guest was allowed to spend the night in a US embassy under some kind of extenuating circumstances, they'd eventually get nickel-and-dimed within an inch of their life.
posted by Countess Elena at 12:56 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


That Olbermann video posted above led me to do some searching about Kellyanne Conway's connection to the 'vast right-wing conspiracy', and I found this old blog post by Glenn Greenwald, about a blog run by the Conway couple: National Review's new blog -- A vile case study in GOP filth-peddling.

National Review has created a museum dedicated to the Republican political gutter of the 1990s in the form of a new blog hosted by two of the trashy lowlifes who worked during the entire Clinton Presidency to turn our national political dialogue into one big Jerry Springer Show. The authors of the blog are George Conway III and his lovely wife, Kellyanne.

I found this observation to be particularly prescient:

Examining filth-peddling relics of the 1990s like the Conways is not merely an exercise in masochistic nostalgia. As their new National Review blog demonstrates, lowly character smears are a quite current and integral weapon in the Republican arsenal. These gutter tactics and their vile purveyors haven’t gone anywhere. And it is beyond doubt that all of the Clinton smears which lowered our political discourse to the primordial level, along with many new ones, are being kept warming in the oven just in case Hillary gets anywhere near a Presidential election.

The Conway's blog is no longer online, but can be perused at the Internet Archive. I had assumed that Kellyanne was just a mercenary to help Trump's image with white women, but it turns out she's been part of the anti-Clinton industry for decades.
posted by airish at 1:00 PM on October 17, 2016 [53 favorites]



This is as good a time as any to link to David Rees' portrayal of Julian Assange as a terrible houseguest.


Many people making comments on that video do not seem to understand that it is made up. It's not a terrible slander on Assange, it's comedy. And it is exceedingly funny if you've ever hosted traveling activists, punk bands, etc.
posted by Frowner at 1:01 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


I like how he spent the evening calling them "a state actor" to get his fans excited that he might be being oppressed by the CIA or some shit and it's actually just his host getting sick of his bullshit.
posted by Artw at 1:01 PM on October 17, 2016 [14 favorites]


The new wifi password is "please and thank you". They are pretty sure he doesn't even know those are words.
posted by ckape at 1:01 PM on October 17, 2016 [21 favorites]


Absentee ballots burned in office attack


...and read the rest of the thread about why this means the NCGOP might've just admitted to breaking the law.
posted by parm at 1:01 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


per twitter Ecuador turned off the internet cause HRC threatened to invade/bomb them, have fun watching those talking points percolate up into your fb feed
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:04 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump: 96% of donations from journalists go to Clinton

This article has really been pissing me off all day. There are some donations mentioned that raise a certain degree of vague ethical concern (like Nussbaum, who is a TV critic who doesn't normally do politics, but she did write about the conventions), but plenty of people in that article don't remotely rise to that level, like restaurant critics and former journalists. If a paper wants to ban its restaurant critic from making political contributions for the sake of a newsroom-wide policy, that's fine, but I don't really see what difference it makes, and adding up all the donations whether they approach any kind of ethical line or not and reporting a dollar amount is misleading.
posted by zachlipton at 1:04 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


So forgive me if this sounds off-base but I've been really worrying about a spike in incidents of domestic violence on the night of the 8th when Trump (let's face it) loses.
This may be me just being a condescending Californian but it's lingering in my brain quite a bit, this fear of losing an election to a woman (a hated woman at that, replete with all the usual stereotypes that apply) causing some right wingers to fly off the handle at the closest target.
I hope the shelters and call centers, etc are prepping for this. Or perhaps putting out a campaign addressing it, though again its just a fear I have.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 1:06 PM on October 17, 2016 [25 favorites]


parm: NCGOP has already said they only had sample ballots. Not absentee.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:10 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


"Hillary needs to be taken out." Says, "If I have to be a patriot, I will."

That little fucking smirk he starts to make before even finishing the sentence. That twinkle in his eye as he says it - this is such fun for him. His big chance to feel like a big man at the big city reporter. Threatening to assassinate a president with what looks like a fucking foam dog bone on his head. Except he won't own it, he immediately becomes a smarmy dodging schoolyard bully about it. "Is it? Is it?" I remember that look from the face of every shitheel back in school who liked that I wasn't sure if he really would be waiting to swing at me after class. The smugness of forcing the moment to be about you by insisting on being awful.

This piece of garbage probably won't follow through on any of this. He probably mouths off about stuff bigger than him all day long. But we can't be sure, can we? That's the part he likes.

Letting these rubes think of themselves as "patriots" is some genius grift. Violent ignorance, which takes zero effort to succumb to or maintain, is recast as a heroic virtue. Complexity in and of itself is a weapon of the enemy - reject it out of hand! Read these conspiracies about how global banking doesn't want the world to know that you've never been wrong. Read this Da Vinci Code shit about how the law doesn't apply to you because you know about gold fringe flags now. And definitely watch this Youtube video about how every innocent person who has died from one of us cracking and spraying bullets everywhere was really a crisis actor that isn't really dead. The raw human terror you see on their horrified faces in the news is in fact part of a plot to deny you endless weaponry, so definitely hate those people most of all before any compassion kicks in and spoils this whole thing.

I'm so fucking angry that this is where the country is at today. I can't believe the vital work that's going undone because fucksticks want to playact the Walking Dead. I try always to bear in mind that partisan anger is part of how we got here and that I can't do much of anything about the decisions some jerkoff in flag hat wants to make. But goddamnit if there aren't times where I also regret that Clinton only called half of Trump's voters deplorable too.
posted by EatTheWeek at 1:11 PM on October 17, 2016 [73 favorites]


Adam Khan:
"Hillary stole lamps from the State Department!" (156 Retweets)

"uh never mind they were her lamps" (25 Retweets)


Yet another illustration of the difference between breathless dissemination of excerpts from leaked emails and actual journalism.
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:12 PM on October 17, 2016 [54 favorites]


HRC threatened to invade/bomb them

In her capacity as presidential candidate?
posted by Artw at 1:14 PM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


Of course they did, and a not small part of the observation I was making - or trying to make, since people seemed not to get that - was that, the more folks on the left crow about how happy it would make them if 20% of the right's base possibly sat out the election in disillusionment, the more we can be painted as not supporting a robust democratic process where all voters feel comfortable participating, something which puts us in the ballpark of the underhanded proponents of vote suppression.
  1. Pretty sure only one person in this thread said it.
  2. "Sitting out in disillusionment" ≠ voter suppression (see #6 below).
  3. It takes a damn big stretch to paint the combination of #1 and #2 as a lack of support for democratic process, doubly so as a tactic of the left.
  4. The stretch to put those people "in the ballpark" is more like "not really in the same state where the city that houses said ballpark.
  5. Again, the main proponents of the theories around this are the Trump campaign themselves
  6. The campaign possibly doesn't know that their actions one of the best ways to depress (which is a far better word to use than suppress) turnout.
  7. Alternately, they might know that and are cynically using it as a way to bolster their claims of a stolen election, but I personally feel that that grants them way too much credit when it comes to strategery.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:16 PM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


In her capacity as presidential candidate?

with the arsenal she oversees from inside her lair in a dormant volcano
posted by poffin boffin at 1:18 PM on October 17, 2016 [31 favorites]


NCGOP has already said they only had sample ballots. Not absentee.

Then why did they say absentee ballots were burned? Oh, I think Atom Eyes's comment hit the nail on the head already.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 1:20 PM on October 17, 2016


"Hillary stole lamps from the State Department!" (156 Retweets)

"uh never mind they were her lamps" (25 Retweets)


This also seems to go to show how ridiculously wideranging the FBI investigation became. It seems like it reached the point where it was just random folks from Diplomatic Security complaining about their boss, down to "she took a bunch of stuff home when she left."

Anyway, if your scandal hinges on stolen government lamps, it's really really fucking stupid.
posted by zachlipton at 1:20 PM on October 17, 2016 [12 favorites]


She stole all the W keys!
posted by Artw at 1:22 PM on October 17, 2016 [17 favorites]


> Interesting post on what will happen after the election: Our Future is in Paul Ryan's Hands

> 8 member Supreme Court until we have Republican President

> Yes, 8. Then 7. Then 6. etc.

From the Mother Jones "Paul Ryan" article:
It's also possible that he wants to run for president in 2020, and if that's the case he'll do better if he has some real accomplishments to show over the next four years. Running on a platform of scorched-earth obstruction might get the tea partiers excited, but that's not enough to win the presidency.
That's my belief and hope, too. Sorry, McCain, you can't block her nominations without looking like the Do Nothings, which makes Ryan look like Leader of the Do Nothings. (Fingers crossed, with an extra bit of wishing that the House does flip with those fearing "rigged" elections opting to stay home and prove their point.)
posted by filthy light thief at 1:23 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


prefpara: I hope the Secret Service follows up on every single one of these [death threats on HRC].

As said elsewhere, the Secret Service will have a heck of a time triaging the situation that Donald has created. I only wish they could send him the bill for their overtime, with the Trump Premium applied like he applies to his bills to the government while running for president.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:25 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]




No Springtime for Hitler?

From the RNC thread, here you go:

Springtime for Donald and 'Murica
Our land is happy (no gays)
We're all just chanting, "Lock her up"
Come on, Paul Ryan, pucker up
Springtime for Donald and 'Murica
Winter for logic and class
Springtime for Donald and 'Murica
C'mon Trumpists, let's go kick some ass.
posted by Gaz Errant at 1:28 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Adam Khan:
"Hillary stole lamps from the State Department!" (156 Retweets)

"uh never mind they were her lamps" (25 Retweets)

Yet another illustration of the difference between breathless dissemination of excerpts from leaked emails and actual journalism.


Falsehood flies, and the Truth comes limping after it (because lies are more exciting than the truth, naturally)
posted by filthy light thief at 1:30 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Here's a List of the Information Trump Has Promised but Not Released
As the allegations of sexual assault piled up against Donald Trump this week, the Republican nominee promised that he would release a trove of exculpatory evidence "at the appropriate time."
...
None of this was the firm proof that Trump had promised. And this wasn't the first time that Trump has vowed to release information and then failed to produce the goods. Here's a quick guide.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:33 PM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


She stole all the W keys!

I totally believed this (well, not that it was Clinton herself, but that it happened) until literally 2 days ago!
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:36 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


@willrahn: Emails reveal Clinton staffers are fans of Andy Borowitz

Welp, that's the last straw for me.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:37 PM on October 17, 2016 [22 favorites]


It's unlikely to matter much (he's still on the ballot of course, and who decides on their Presidential vote based on reading a few paragraphs in the voter guide?), but this is the kind of thing competent campaigns manage to get right.

Competent, hell, this is the kind of thing Goodspaceguy manages to get right.
posted by duffell at 1:38 PM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


I totally believed this (well, not that it was Clinton herself, but that it happened) until literally 2 days ago!

It's not? Aw, I always thought that one was pretty funny.
posted by EatTheWeek at 1:38 PM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


538: Here’s How We’re Forecasting The 4-Way Presidential Race In Utah
We’ve discovered that people are a little bit obsessed with the presidential race in Utah. An article that my colleague Benjamin Morris wrote last week about Evan McMullin, an independent candidate who is on the ballot there and competitive in recent polls, unexpectedly turned out to be one of the most popular features we’ve written this year at FiveThirtyEight. In this article, I’ll provide a more technical explanation of how our model is forecasting McMullin and why he has a relatively challenging path — and also, one important way in which our forecast might be underrating his chances.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:38 PM on October 17, 2016 [13 favorites]




It's unlikely to matter much (he's still on the ballot of course, and who decides on their Presidential vote based on reading a few paragraphs in the voter guide?), but this is the kind of thing competent campaigns manage to get right.

Competent, hell, this is the kind of thing Goodspaceguy manages to get right.


Yeah, but to be fair he's been doing this for like a decade now, so he's got practice
posted by Existential Dread at 1:39 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


Someone should show Utah Egg's ban edict. Just the fact that there isn't one should convince a people who fled religious persecution.
posted by vbfg at 1:42 PM on October 17, 2016 [39 favorites]


>
The creepy Trump line from Sunday's debate that keeps sticking with me is "I have tremendous respect for women. Women have respect for me."

This line is creepy because it reflects Trump's obsession with appearances of reciprocity: You respect me, I respect you.

Trump's reciprocity goes the other way: You don't respect me, I don't respect you.

One of the best things I've read on Tumblr:
Sometimes people use "respect" to mean "treating someone like a person" and sometimes they use "respect" to mean "treating someone like an authority"

and sometimes people who are used to being treated like an authority say "if you won’t respect me I won’t respect you" and they mean "if you won’t treat me like an authority I won’t treat you like a person"

and they think they’re being fair but they aren’t, and it’s not okay.
posted by duffell at 1:42 PM on October 17, 2016 [158 favorites]


Canada Just Wants To #TellAmericaItsGreat awwww
The only question now, at least for those who find this gesture pleasing, is how we return the favor. What would our hashtag be for our neighbors to the North? What would the video entail and how would we #TellCanadaItsGreat? Or maybe we should just wait on that, at least until November 9.
I think the response hashtag should be #AwwThanksYouGuys
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 1:45 PM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


I think the response hashtag should be #AwwThanksYouGuys

#Sorry, surely.
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:47 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


pouring Bailey's on their cheerios

Note to self for debate night: Currently in my kitchen, I have both Bailey's and cheerios. I was going to go with super-spiced chex mix but now...
posted by invincible summer at 1:48 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


The US isn't going to bomb Ecuador. Wikileaks lives in its own reality.
posted by humanfont at 1:49 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Egg's ban edict

I have literally used my Illuminati connections to engineer the entire campaign season to set up this one perfect moment
posted by cortex at 1:49 PM on October 17, 2016 [141 favorites]


So someone on the Hillary Clinton subreddit pointed out that Egg winning Utah wouldn't really help Hillary because she needs to get to 270 EVs in any case. If neither candidate gets 270, it will be up to Congress. So really Egg winning Utah would be more of a symbolic victory rather than anything that could contribute to a Hillary win.
posted by peacheater at 1:52 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


I have literally used my Illuminati connections to engineer the entire campaign season to set up this one perfect moment

Just in time for the hollandaise!
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:52 PM on October 17, 2016 [40 favorites]


Committee To Protect Journalists: Donald Trump An 'Unprecedented Threat'

I guess previous donor Peter Thiel will be ignoring their phone calls from now on.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:53 PM on October 17, 2016


So someone on the Hillary Clinton subreddit pointed out that Egg winning Utah wouldn't really help Hillary because she needs to get to 270 EVs in any case. If neither candidate gets 270, it will be up to Congress. So really Egg winning Utah would be more of a symbolic victory rather than anything that could contribute to a Hillary win.

That's sort of the whole idea, isn't it? Isn't that the whole plan that Egg hatched and served up to the Utah GOP?
posted by duffell at 1:55 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


Is there a way we could not refer to politicians by nicknames?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:57 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


Trump didn’t create the “rigged election” rhetoric. Republicans did.
Trump isn’t even the first Republican presidential candidate to raise concerns about voter fraud. Back in 2008, many Republicans, with the support of conservative media outlets like Fox News, pushed concerns that ACORN — a community organization that focused in part on registering African-American voters — was engaging in mass-scale election fraud. At the time, Republican nominee John McCain warned that ACORN “is now on the verge of maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy.”

Touting these concerns, 14 states have passed new voting restrictions — from strict photo ID requirements to limits on early voting — in time for the 2016 election: Alabama, Arizona, Indiana, Kansas, Mississippi, Nebraska, New Hampshire, Ohio, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, and Wisconsin. Other states passed restrictions, but they’re currently tied up in court battles. [...]

Some Republicans have admitted to this. In 2012, ousted Florida Republican Party Chair Jim Greer told MSNBC that concerns about voter fraud are just a “marketing tool” to justify the suppression of minority voters. “Never one time did we have any discussions where voter fraud was a real issue,” Greer claimed. “It’s simply been created as a marketing tool here in Florida for the right wing that is running state government now to convince voters that what they're doing here is right.”

For Trump, though, there may be another reason for fostering fears about voter fraud: It gives him an easy explanation for justifying his loss in November. Trump has never taken defeat well, based on everything we know about his public persona. Claiming that the election is rigged gives him an easy out: “I didn’t really lose. The whole thing was just skewed!”

Whatever the reason, Trump’s claims of a “rigged election” are merely latching onto the myth that Republicans have built up to pass new voting restrictions — a natural extension of the rhetoric Republicans have fanned for years. So if that rhetoric leads to trouble, it can’t be pinned solely on Trump.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:58 PM on October 17, 2016 [59 favorites]


s there a way we could not refer to politicians by nicknames?

Then how will we know who he is?
posted by Artw at 1:59 PM on October 17, 2016 [49 favorites]


Got a hilarious flyer in the mail today from the Ohio Democratic Party.

Title: Who Said It? Donald Trump or Your Crazy Uncle
posted by zakur at 2:00 PM on October 17, 2016 [20 favorites]


Then how will we know who he is?

I guess I'm missing the joke, but I find it super rude. Like the "Drumpf" stuff as well. Call people by their name.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:01 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


I have no idea what any of this is about so I have assumed that all the portraitless Twitter noobs have somehow formed a hive intelligence and Mormons Are Into It.
posted by selfnoise at 2:02 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


there a way we could not refer to politicians by nicknames?

I generally agree, but not for MeFi's Adopted Own. I remain secure that we are the largest group of people who are even aware of him on the internet.
posted by corb at 2:02 PM on October 17, 2016 [90 favorites]


Is there a way we could not refer to politicians by nicknames?

I suppose the constant nicknames do scramble things up a little, and I understand if it leaves you a little bedeviled. I just needed a little levity; my brain's pretty fried right now. I'malet it alone.
posted by duffell at 2:03 PM on October 17, 2016 [76 favorites]


Fine, fine, we'll call him Evan Dando. Sheesh.
posted by Artw at 2:03 PM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


This threat to Politico journalist Hadas Gold just absolutely chilled me to the bone.

Holy shit.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 2:04 PM on October 17, 2016


Is there a way we could not refer to politicians by nicknames?

You bet, roomthreeseventeen.
posted by Scoop at 2:04 PM on October 17, 2016 [12 favorites]


The Egg nickname is affectionate. The Drumpf thing is meant to highlight his family's immigrant status, which is much less acceptable imho.
posted by xyzzy at 2:05 PM on October 17, 2016 [35 favorites]


You bet, roomthreeseventeen.

Touche. (Sorry for the derail, mods.)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:05 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


An article that my colleague Benjamin Morris wrote last week about Evan McMullin, an independent candidate who is on the ballot there and competitive in recent polls, unexpectedly turned out to be one of the most popular features we’ve written this year at FiveThirtyEight.

Breaking: Nate Silver admits he's terrible at predictions!
posted by The Bellman at 2:06 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


You bet, roomthreeseventeen.

Unless there's a real MeFi October Surprise (not to be confused with real MeFite octobersurprise), roomthreeseventeen is not running for president.
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:11 PM on October 17, 2016


Like the "Drumpf" stuff as well.

that's not a nickname, it's his former family name, and tbh i find the mocking of it to be creepy and xenophobic.
posted by poffin boffin at 2:12 PM on October 17, 2016 [35 favorites]


Not the nicknames call Julia the nicknames!
posted by angrycat at 2:14 PM on October 17, 2016


So someone on the Hillary Clinton subreddit pointed out that Egg winning Utah wouldn't really help Hillary because she needs to get to 270 EVs in any case. If neither candidate gets 270, it will be up to Congress.

Let’s dispense with this notion that the election will go to Congress. 538 currently estimates a 0.3% chance that no candidate will get 270 electoral votes and currently projects Clinton to get 343 electoral votes.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:14 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Unless there's a real MeFi October Surprise (not to be confused with real MeFite octobersurprise), roomthreeseventeen is not running for president.

Well, let's face it, neither is Ewan McWaffle.
posted by Artw at 2:14 PM on October 17, 2016 [12 favorites]


I suppose the constant nicknames do scramble things up a little, and I understand if it leaves you a little bedeviled. I just needed a little levity; my brain's pretty fried right now. I'malet it alone.

Is it OK if I poach this to share with some friends? They need some coddling right now.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:15 PM on October 17, 2016 [22 favorites]


If he puts back on a sombrero, he's el Trumpo again.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 2:16 PM on October 17, 2016


Let’s dispense with this notion that the election will go to Congress. 538 currently estimates a 0.3% chance that no candidate will get 270 electoral votes and currently projects Clinton to get 343 electoral votes.

Sorry, Rubio malfunction.
posted by condour75 at 2:17 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


I would not like it if people called me by my family name from before we came to America.

Shparber.

It just does not roll off the tongue.
posted by maxsparber at 2:17 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump makes a new crazy video.
posted by Talez at 2:18 PM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


So I guess the new party line on the sexual assault comments is that Billy Bush peer pressured Trump into it. Way to throw Billy Bush under the bus. Also lol.
posted by yasaman at 2:20 PM on October 17, 2016 [16 favorites]


Shparber.

It just does not roll off the tongue.


I'd love to hear Gene Wilder saying that name.
posted by Surely This at 2:21 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Way to throw Billy Bush under the bus.

Maybe you didn't watch the video, they are clearly inside the bus
posted by beerperson at 2:21 PM on October 17, 2016 [18 favorites]


Trump makes a new crazy video. [real]
posted by mikelieman at 2:21 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


That is a pretty crazy video, all right. Yeeesh.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 2:22 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


I was just thinking "what we really need in a president is a person who is easily susceptible to peer pressure."
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:22 PM on October 17, 2016 [56 favorites]


KellyAnne Conway is making the rounds today peddling poll unskewing and the corrupt media. I wish Nielsen ratings were granular enough to notice that I change the channel the moment she blatantly lies. I usually get twenty seconds of Conway in this fashion.
posted by xyzzy at 2:23 PM on October 17, 2016


Both McMullin and his running mate have stated in interviews that the 'election goes to Congress scenario' is incredibly unlikely and not really the reason they're running. They usually dash that scenario off pretty quickly as a 'long shot' and then get into their actual reason, which is repudiating Trump from a conservative viewpoint. (Plus the unmentioned 'making names for themselves on the national political stage as representatives of the new "compassionate conservatives..."')
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:23 PM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


Maybe you didn't watch the video, they are clearly inside the bus

yes, yes, but now Billy Bush is under the bus, and Trump is sort of plastered to the windshield while he's shrieking about locker room talk.
posted by yasaman at 2:25 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


> Is there a way we could not refer to politicians by nicknames?

Oh, come on. In the first place, politicians don't deserve automatic respect, and in the second place, "Egg" is one of the few bits of genuine delight to be had in this awful election season.
posted by languagehat at 2:25 PM on October 17, 2016 [57 favorites]


Is he referring to the .... quid-pro-quo thing discussed upthread between the FBI and the CIA ??? ?? ???? ?? ????? ? ?
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 2:25 PM on October 17, 2016


Man, the acoustics on that new video are weird. Not quite kickstarter-video-using-onboard-mic weird, but close.

Real production companies demand cash or cashier's check before they unload the truck.
posted by mikelieman at 2:26 PM on October 17, 2016 [26 favorites]


Pro tip, if you lose a comment late in the thread because you adjusted the size of the text: Do not, for the love of all that is Hillary, search on the word fuck. That is all.
posted by Bella Donna at 2:29 PM on October 17, 2016 [28 favorites]


I was just thinking "what we really need in a president is a person who is easily susceptible to peer pressure."

Or lickspittle pressure, as the case may be.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:29 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Trump makes a new crazy video.

So instead of just hitting Clinton hard on classified emails and corruption/favors which people would understand and which would support the negative perception of her, he goes full Alex Jones with it and makes it a huge conspiracy that no one other than Trumpsters will believe. Gotta love that he's so far in the Breitbart bubble he can't see the smart play.
posted by chris24 at 2:29 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Pardon if this is a stupid question, but regarding Trump's nutty video and the on-going "lock her up" rhetoric, what specifically are they alleging that Hillary's "very high crimes" are? Treason? Perjury? Destruction of evidence? People just seem to say she's guilty as hell and a criminal but I can never get a handle on which crime she's guilty of. Guilty of being a woman with ambition, I suspect, but feel free to correct me if I'm missing something.
posted by marshmallow peep at 2:30 PM on October 17, 2016 [16 favorites]


MetaFilter US Election 2016: fuck. That is all.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:30 PM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


Real production companies demand cash or cashier's check before they unload the truck.

Especially after they've seen video of you fucking up a rented teleprompter.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:32 PM on October 17, 2016 [33 favorites]


Pardon if this is a stupid question, but regarding Trump's nutty video and the on-going "lock her up" rhetoric, what specifically are they alleging that Hillary's "very high crimes" are? Treason? Perjury? Destruction of evidence?

It depends how wingnutty you want to get on it. Obviously she's murdered dozens of her opponents and potential whistleblowers. But even levelheaded right wing radicals (who are no longer a fringe) think the email issue is a serious crime.
posted by dis_integration at 2:33 PM on October 17, 2016


Trump makes a new crazy video.

Man, Donald, you sure you don't want to try a second take
posted by beerperson at 2:34 PM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


Is it OK if I poach this to share with some friends? They need some coddling right now.

Sure thing. Hopefully they won't lose much more sleep ova' this election.
posted by duffell at 2:34 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


Pardon if this is a stupid question, but regarding Trump's nutty video and the on-going "lock her up" rhetoric, what specifically are they alleging that Hillary's "very high crimes" are?

The one friend I've had to have that discussion with was convinced that she'd perjured herself to the FBI, and maybe broke laws because EMAILS. That's the only answer I can give from personal experience.

I'm sure you'd find all sorts of answers to that question. It's a desired (to them) outcome of the "fling all the shit you can dream up and some of it will stick" approach the right have taken to the Clintons for 25 years.
posted by jammer at 2:35 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


He's going so far down the well of internet insanity that I'm expecting the next video to be:

Trump: "If Earth stood still, it would have mid-day, mid-night, sun-up and sun-down as 4 corners. Each rotation of earth has 4 mid-days, 4 mid-nights, 4 sun-ups and 4 sun-downs... Ignorance of 4 day harmonic cubic nature indicts humans as unfit to live on earth." [fake]
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:35 PM on October 17, 2016 [29 favorites]


Sorry I haven't been posting very much I had 2 job interviews today. One of them told me that if I was to start for them it would be on November 7th. It was all I could do to not collapse in a heap and start gibbering for sanctuary right away.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:35 PM on October 17, 2016 [26 favorites]


>Obviously she's murdered dozens of her opponents and potential whistleblowers.

No, you're thinking of Putin, whom Trump admires.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:36 PM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


Let’s dispense with this notion that the election will go to Congress. 538 currently estimates a 0.3% chance that no candidate will get 270 electoral votes and currently projects Clinton to get 343 electoral votes.

I wasn't suggesting that the election will go to Congress. Just that Evan McMullin winning Utah would make no difference one way or other to Hillary's chances of winning the overall thing, since him taking 11 EVs or Trump taking 11 EVs wouldn't make any difference to Hillary's need to get 270 EVs from other states.
posted by peacheater at 2:36 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Compassionate Conservatism is a friendly-sounding cover for victim blaming in the form of "accountability" paternalism and bootstrap exceptionalism.
posted by xyzzy at 2:37 PM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


There was a story upthread about how Governor LePage of Maine was threatening minimum wage activists with prison, not for any specific crime, but because a higher wage would hurt seniors or small businesses or something. LePage is too stupid to know he's supposed to come up with some kind of pretext, but that's what "lock her up" comes down to - supporting liberal policies is now a crime against America itself.
posted by theodolite at 2:37 PM on October 17, 2016 [21 favorites]


Just that Evan McMullin winning Utah would make no difference

but it would be DELICIOUS
posted by beerperson at 2:38 PM on October 17, 2016 [24 favorites]


Trump makes a new crazy video.

Man, Donald, you sure you don't want to try a second take


"yeah, this feels more natural" AMugInEachHand.gif
posted by Brainy at 2:38 PM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]


but it would be DELICIOUS

Oh yeah totally agree. And a great signal to the parts of the Republican party that aren't totally nuts that they need to figure out what to do about the Trumpists.
posted by peacheater at 2:43 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump crazy video text:
This is very big and frankly it's unbelievable. What was just found out is that the Department of Justice, the State Department, and the FBI colluded - got together - to make Hillary Clinton look less guilty and look a lot better than she looks.

This is one of the big, breaking stories of our time, in my opinion. This shows corruption at the highest level, and we can't let it happen as American citizens. So, let's see how the press covers it. The press likes not to cover it because the best thing that Hillary Clinton has going is the media. Without the media, she wouldn't even be in this race.

This is collusion between the FBI, Department of Justice, and the State Department to try and make Hillary Clinton look like an innocent person, when she's guilty of very high crimes. So all I can say is, let's hope that our country gets a fair shake. This is a big mess.
Is "unbelievable" the only word he knows with more than three syllables? Also, while this shows a rare on-point coherence from Trump, it utterly fails to mention what he's upset about. Presumably, his fans will figure that out from other news sources.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:45 PM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


The absence of any specific allegations is, it's worth considering, very likely on purpose -- the sympathetic listener hears whatever they want to hear, and Clinton can't refute it since it's there's nothing, specifically, to refute.

Plus if you're on the fence and turn to google to find out what Trump is talking about, there is a treasure trove of bunk Breitbart evidence of wrongdoings to discover. That type of self-discovery where you find anti-Clinton info in the fever swamps is more more convincing than hearing Trump say it. And, it drives page views for Bannon.
posted by peeedro at 2:47 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


"Let's check in on the Overton Family!"

(peers in) "OK I see a red....blood. All I see is blood. Blood on the glass. Blood on the walls. Blood fountains from all fixtures. The sofa is on the ceiling. Maybe we should come back later."
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:50 PM on October 17, 2016 [18 favorites]


Especially after they've seen video of you fucking up a rented teleprompter.

Or after you went on live national television and said you think it's perfectly OK not to pay the people you hire if you weren't satisfied with the level of service provided.
posted by Sara C. at 2:50 PM on October 17, 2016 [13 favorites]


Melania is apparently saying that Bush egged Trump into saying that shit on the bus.


Wait. The Donald was influenced by somebody else? Can he admit to that?
posted by nubs at 2:50 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


The visual in the crazy video is so weird. His hair is disheveled, no American flag pin, the Alex Jones shouty face. This is clearly what he meant when he said "I will take my message directly to the American people and bypass the unethical press that wants to see their candidate elected." It's about half a step removed from recording a YouTube video with your webcam that starts with "wake up sheeple."
posted by zachlipton at 2:51 PM on October 17, 2016 [42 favorites]


So I went and actually watched the video, hoping to see some quality Final Meltdown, and I gotta say I'm disappointed. He sounds exactly as hinged as he's been for the last year-and-a-half.
posted by whuppy at 2:51 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


The new ep. of I'm With Her is up. Guest is advisor Maya Harris.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:52 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


In other news, Trump has put out a press release to let us know how he's committed to winning VA and is going to spend $2M on ads there. The RCP average has Clinton +10.8 in VA, I respond with Virginian insight.
posted by zachlipton at 2:54 PM on October 17, 2016 [16 favorites]


In the land of Fox News, in the fires of Breitbart, the Dark Lord Roger Ailes forged in secret, a master Trump, to control all others. And into this Trump he poured all his cruelty, his malice and his will to dominate all life. One Trump to rule them all.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 2:57 PM on October 17, 2016 [25 favorites]


Did anyone tell /pol/ their god emperor is a beta cuck to the Bush family this whole time?
posted by cmfletcher at 2:58 PM on October 17, 2016 [13 favorites]


...the more folks on the left crow about how happy it would make them if 20% of the right's base possibly sat out the election in disillusionment, the more we can be painted as not supporting a robust democratic process where all voters feel comfortable participating...

I'd agree with you if the left was actually, you know, doing something to disillusion the right other than running a competent campaign. The right has done this to themselves. They, not the left, gerymandered the ever living shit out of as many districts as they could such that rational conservative candidates could no longer win there. They, not the left have been stirring up racism, sexism and other flavors of discrimination for decades now. They, not the left, have build a media arm that primarily exists to spread disinformation. And now, after looking at them for pretty much my entire adult life and saying, "You guys really ought to stop shitting in your bed." I'm supposed to be all verklempt because some of their traditional supporters are finally catching on to the fact that there's shit in their bed?

Not where I choose to expend my emotional energy, sorry.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 2:58 PM on October 17, 2016 [64 favorites]


In other news, Trump has put out a press release to let us know how he's committed to winning VA and is going to spend $2M on ads there.

This is stupid, a press release is like minimum $100, his campaign cannot afford that rn
posted by beerperson at 3:00 PM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


Without the media, she wouldn't even be in this race.

Trump's Mirror?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:00 PM on October 17, 2016 [21 favorites]


...the more folks on the left crow about how happy it would make them if 20% of the right's base possibly sat out the election in disillusionment, the more we can be painted as not supporting a robust democratic process where all voters feel comfortable participating...

To be honest, I don't think reality has anything to do with how the left is painted, so there's that.
posted by JenMarie at 3:02 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


The Onion: Trump Maps Out Plan For First 100 Days Of Not Conceding Election

Just barely satire.
posted by piyushnz at 3:04 PM on October 17, 2016 [24 favorites]


In the land of Fox News, in the fires of Breitbart, the Dark Lord Roger Ailes forged in secret, a master Trump, to control all others. And into this Trump he poured all his cruelty, his malice and his will to dominate all life. One Trump to rule them all.

All my favorites, I give you them
posted by Ber at 3:05 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


At the beginning of the Trump campaign, I floated that his fans were simply interested in the bread and circus. Later, I thought perhaps so many of them thought rooting for Trump would be like participating in a nationwide reality show. Like they were not concerned with policy or the future of the country, but rather, if Trump was elected, they might somehow have a better chance of having their 15 minutes of fame. 21% of the electorate has entirely forgotten what we are doing here.
posted by Sophie1 at 3:06 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


So according to Swedish media (*), Trump & sons are bombarding Swedish politicians with fundraising mails. I was about to say that maybe someone should remind them that US politicians cannot legally accept money from non-US citizens, but I guess the Trumps don't really work that way.

*) link to article in Swedish with annoying self-playing video.
posted by effbot at 3:09 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


So's that's supposed to like fire up racists in the woods in Ohio? Shore up Trump's base in this new Russia-friendly India? I honestly don't know what to do with this.
---
As an aside, from Modi to Putin to Farage to Erdogan, the level of global consciousness (and dare I say ... solidarity?) among the current crop of nationalist reactionaries is both remarkable and alarming.

Business Insider: "There are tons of Trump supporters in China — even though he keeps bashing the country"
South China Morning Post: "Why are recent Chinese immigrants supporting Trump?"
Kings County Politics: "Chinese-American Immigrants Show Support For Trump"

If oppression can be intersectional, so are oppressors. This is important to remember, and to study.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:09 PM on October 17, 2016 [15 favorites]


The Onion: Trump Maps Out Plan For First 100 Days Of Not Conceding Election

Just barely satire.


Yeah the only part of this that requires suspension of disbelief is the part where Trump plans something.
posted by duffell at 3:10 PM on October 17, 2016 [30 favorites]


I kind of like that whatever it is. Some amazing American melting pot that is!

I still think it's amazing that the big Modi-supporter (and alleged Islamophobe) in the Democratic Party is former DNC vice-chair, then former Sanders endorser Tulsi Gabbard, first Hindu female member of Congress, Tulsi Gabbard. Whose family isn't even from India, her ancestry is Samoan and European. The 21st century is going to be a really interesting time for these sort of mixed up identity and tribal combinations and collisions.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:14 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


See, this is why I don't believe the whole TrumpTV master plan thing. If he was really in this just to start a media empire he'd have some sort of production value on that video.
posted by ckape at 3:14 PM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


(I sort of assume that all y'all Oregon folks are already registered to vote, but just in case, the deadline to register or update your registration (move recently?) is tomorrow, and you can do it here)
posted by Vibrissa at 3:15 PM on October 17, 2016


You think his core demographic cares about video quality? I'm dubious.
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:16 PM on October 17, 2016


KellyAnne Conway is making the rounds today peddling poll unskewing and the corrupt media. I wish Nielsen ratings were granular enough to notice that I change the channel the moment she blatantly lies. I usually get twenty seconds of Conway in this fashion.

xyzzy, no offense, but there is either something very wrong wrong with your perception of time, or something very wrong with your perception of truth.

I get to about "Well, Wolf, let me start with--" which takes about 1.5 seconds total.

/unskewing xyzzy
posted by invincible summer at 3:16 PM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


Melania Trump on dredging up Bill Clinton's past: 'They started'
After the Washington Post unearthed the 2005 video, the GOP nominee was quick to bring up sexual assault allegations against Bill Clinton, husband of Donald’s opponent, Hillary Clinton. Donald had four of the women appear with him before the second presidential debate on Oct. 9. “These four very courageous women have asked to be here, and it was our honor to help them,” he said at the time.

Asked about using those accusations as part of their campaign, Melania said, “Well, if they bring up my past, why not?” She added, “They’re asking for it. They started. They started from the – from the beginning of the campaign putting my – my picture from modeling days. That was my modeling days and I’m proud what I did. I worked very hard.”
Hmmm. I'm not so sure she is proud of it; she sounds a bit defensive.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:17 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


That hashtag is gold.

The Democrat Machine‏ @DemocratMachine

"Donald can be baited by a tweet" - Hillary, 7/28/16

"Donald can be egged on by Billy Bush" - Melania Trump, 10/17/16 #billybushmademedoit
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:21 PM on October 17, 2016 [29 favorites]


So according to Swedish media (*), Trump & sons are bombarding Swedish politicians with fundraising mails.

They've been soliciting foreign nationals for a long time. Complaints about the illegality have been lodged with the FEC, but that has predictably gone nowhere.

The best anyone can figure is that their fundraising email lists are pulling from some mess of Trump Organization/RNC lists that they haven't bothered to dis-aggregate because why bother? They obviously don't care about looking foolish.
posted by AndrewInDC at 3:24 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


I thought it was Melania's own darling husband who brought up her modeling, leaked nudes, et cetera.
posted by palomar at 3:24 PM on October 17, 2016 [13 favorites]


Asked about using those accusations as part of their campaign, Melania said, “Well, if they bring up my past, why not?” She added, “They’re asking for it. They started. They started from the – from the beginning of the campaign putting my – my picture from modeling days. That was my modeling days and I’m proud what I did. I worked very hard.”

Man, she's just as bad a liar as her husband. The Clintons have (to my knowledge) never attacked her, certainly not with pictures of her. Ted Cruz did it in the primaries, which Trump then used an excuse to demean Heidi Cruz. And the New York Post published pictures, but a) they're a far-right Murdoch property, and b) the Trump campaign boasted about the pictures so much that people started to wonder if they'd been the ones to leak the photos in the first place.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:27 PM on October 17, 2016 [36 favorites]


For 'SNL,' Donald Trump is the gift that keeps on giving
NEW YORK (AP) — Already enjoying its best ratings in eight years with politically charged comedy, "Saturday Night Live" got something even more beneficial with Donald Trump's potshots — validation.

Hours after seeing himself portrayed by Alec Baldwin opposite Kate McKinnon's Hillary Clinton impersonation for the third straight week, the Republican presidential candidate took to Twitter to complain. He called the opening skit a hit job, and said Baldwin's impersonation stinks. "Time to retire the boring and unfunny show," Trump tweeted.

"Trump doing this is like an endorsement for the rest of the world," said David Bianculli, author of the upcoming book "The Platinum Age of Television."

Donald Trump's Press Coverage Over 30 Years, Reviewed
A few days ago, I posed a question on Twitter that had me totally perplexed: Where was the Republican opposition research on Donald Trump?

I wasn’t being flippant, and nor were the many others wondering the same thing. The portrait of Trump being painted so effectively by the Clinton campaign could easily have been painted by the campaigns of Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio, not to mention the 73 other Republicans who ran against him in the primaries. Sure, some of the details would have been missing, such as the testimonies of women who say they’ve been groped or otherwise harassed by him. But the Trump we know today is no different from the Trump who has been plaguing humanity for the last half-century.

How do I know this? Because I spent the weekend looking through newspaper archives from the 1980s and ’90s, freely available courtesy of Google News Archive. This was a terrible to spend the weekend, but it made clear that we have known about Trump all along.

Below, a few of the more interesting clips I unearthed. Unless otherwise indicated or plainly noted, the reports come from the Associated Press.
Whoa. The first clip is that in 1991 (post-Marla Maples) he made any woman he was dating take an AIDs test at his doctors office. At the time he was dating Carla Bruni, who would go on to marry the future French president Nicolas Sarkozy
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:27 PM on October 17, 2016 [15 favorites]


I don't think I've seen Melania's nudes but it was my understanding that they were professional modeling shots that were already part of the public record, yes? Were they actually leaked?

I also seem to recall that they were met by us here at Mefi (and, my impression, but the public at large) with a kind of "leave Melania alone" response. Like none of us cared that she'd posed and most of us thought it was icky that anyone would use the photos against her. Am I misremembering?
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:28 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


Blue Falcon | Vets Against Trump:
WENDY, U.S. ARMY, IRAQ VETERAN: Guys like Donald Trump? We call them “blue falcons.”

MIKA, U.S. ARMY, IRAQ VETERAN: You can Google what that stands for.

WENDY: What it means is someone who always puts themselves first, the guy who steals your gear when your back is turned, the guy who talks a big game, but hides WHEN THE SHIT GOES DOWN.

CRYSTAL, U.S. ARMY VETERAN: Yeah, the problem with blue falcons like Donald Trump is they get you killed.
posted by palindromic at 3:28 PM on October 17, 2016 [74 favorites]


I feel like I would like to send a gift basket to every journalist with a Jewish sounding name who has to deal with death threats now on a daily basis. Holy crap.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:29 PM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


The crowd at Trump's rally in Green Bay, WI is currently chanting "Paul Ryan sucks." I guess he should be relieved that they aren't chanting "Lock him up."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:31 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


The crowd at Trump's rally in Green Bay, WI is currently chanting "Paul Ryan sucks."

Even a racist, fascist-supporting clock is right twice a day.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:32 PM on October 17, 2016 [37 favorites]


For 'SNL,' Donald Trump is the gift that keeps on giving

You know, I've watched several episodes of SNL lately, and if they had a single non-political sketch that wasn't utterly terrible (ok, the Wells Fargo Wagon bit was charming), I might consider watching more often than once every 4 years.
posted by zachlipton at 3:32 PM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


A clock that runs backward is right four times a day.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:33 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


See, this is why I don't believe the whole TrumpTV master plan thing. If he was really in this just to start a media empire he'd have some sort of production value on that video.

That's assuming Donald is the one with a plan: Trump son-in-law makes approach on post-election TV start-up.

"Donald Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner has informally approached one of the media industry’s top dealmakers about the prospect of setting up a Trump television network after the presidential election in November. Mr Kushner — an increasingly influential figure in the billionaire’s presidential campaign — contacted Aryeh Bourkoff, the founder and chief executive of LionTree, a boutique investment bank, within the past couple of months, according to three people with knowledge of the matter."

(Vanity Fair article on the same topic, if the FT link doesn't work for you)
posted by effbot at 3:36 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


A clock that runs backward is right four times a day.

Which proves Time Cube.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:36 PM on October 17, 2016 [18 favorites]


> "Evan McMullin winning Utah would make no difference ..."

To this election, no. But if either he or Clinton wins Utah, that sends a pretty powerful message to the Republican party about the future. With electoral math the way it is right now, they absolutely cannot afford the possibility of throwing away 11 of their reliable electoral votes. It would basically signal that a nomination for a Trump or a Trump V.2 will end in flames, period.

Alas, Trump is still much more likely to win Utah than he is to lose it.
posted by kyrademon at 3:36 PM on October 17, 2016 [15 favorites]


Is 'unbelievable' the only word he knows with more than three syllables?

There's a reason for that.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:38 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


> "Much as it pains me to admit, with the Trumpkins voting for Democrats in order to punish Republicans who are opposing Trump, and the reasonable Republicans staying home and pouring Bailey's on their cheerios, I don't think you're going to have to worry about a Republican house."

Unfortunately, heavy gerrymandering still puts a Democratic house on the far side of the probability curve even with all that going on. There's a chance, though, and I've been making contributions to a bunch of down-ballot candidates just in case.
posted by kyrademon at 3:39 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


> For Halloween, I think I'll get a Trump mask, a red and green sweater and a claw glove and go as Freddy Dunning-Kruger.
Add an acoustic guitar and pull a little pink house on wheels, and viola!... you're Freddy Dunning-Krueger Mellencamp. ;)
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 3:40 PM on October 17, 2016 [23 favorites]



Blue Falcon | Vets Against Trump:


Oh god I don't know if I could love this more.
Maybe if it didn't have that last line ("Listen to vets"), since Trump seems able to scrape up enough veteran support -- for some inexplicable fucking reason -- to muddy those waters.

Thank you for linking this, palindromic!
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:41 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


> "At the time [Trump] was dating Carla Bruni, who would go on to marry the future French president Nicolas Sarkozy."

The article you link to states that: "This appears to have been wishful thinking by Trump. Bruni later said he was 'obviously a lunatic.'"
posted by kyrademon at 3:44 PM on October 17, 2016 [24 favorites]


@JillColvin New chant today at Trump rally: "Kaepernick's a bum!"

I think I like where this is going. Trump can just continue to travel all over America and hold hate fests with lots of chanting. Maybe come up with a litany. I feel like spreading it around will diffuse the hate: Ryan Sucks! Kaepernicks a bum! McConnell's a weasal! Romney is irrelevant! Billy Bush is a sneek! CNN is crappy! ObamaCare will Kill us! Anderson Cooper dyes his hair! The New York Times is old! Egg McMuffin is a bad breakfast! China steals our jobs! Bill Clinton is a dog! President Hillary is horrible!, etc. Maybe after 3 hours of chanting they can get it all out of their systems and then go back to being ordinary American citizens.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:46 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


Shparber.

It just does not roll off the tongue.


Shparber, Shmarber—as long as you've got your health.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:46 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


the possibility of throwing away 11 of their reliable electoral votes

Where does 11 come from? Isn't Utah 6 EVs?
posted by chris24 at 3:48 PM on October 17, 2016


"They’re asking for it. "

Given the context, you just done tucked up good, Melania.
posted by Yowser at 3:48 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


"Kaepernick's a bum!"

That's the kind of sick burn usually relieved for the opposing team's relief pitcher.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:48 PM on October 17, 2016 [13 favorites]


So I've been trying to sign up to be a precinct worker for months now, and have been playing phone/email tag with our local BOE. This would be my first time working the polls. Today I finally got ahold of the person who coordinates Democrats at each precinct (I assume this is standard outside of Ohio, but it seems like here the poll workers have to be evenly divided between parties), and uh, assuming I actually get the paperwork in time from their side, I may be the Democratic counterpart helping a Republican get the ballots to the BOE at poll closing (after, I think, working at the polling location all day).

I'm still waiting to learn more about my assignment, and while I knew that this election could be very tense and people might be crabby, I figured that I have a very gregarious disposition when I need to turn it on, and my job history has included both retail and compliance work, so I feel like I could do a good job of serving the electoral process.

All of a sudden the recent rhetoric about rigged elections, Trump telling his supporters to monitor the polls, the fire bombing of the NC GOP office, and that picture circulating of the guy sitting outside a Clinton office with a rifle is filling me with some apprehension. I feel really strongly that as a citizen who cares about the electoral process, following the law, treating people with courtesy, and that I have the privilege to take off work for this, I should definitely be a part of this effort. But I hope there won't be violence at the polls.

(I literally cannot believe this is something I'm writing in the US in 2016. I hope this is the last time I say something like that in 2016.)
posted by mostly vowels at 3:48 PM on October 17, 2016 [25 favorites]


Well, if they bring up my past, why not?

The Clinton campaign also didn't make a big issue about Melania's fake college degree or immigration history.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:48 PM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


Clinton is a dog! President Hillary is horrible!, etc. Maybe after 3 hours of chanting they can get it all out of their systems and then go back to being ordinary American citizens.

I don't think that's how these things usually end.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:49 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


Anderson Cooper dyes his hair!

Just For Men From Glad
posted by Sys Rq at 3:49 PM on October 17, 2016




> "Where does 11 come from? Isn't Utah 6 EVs?"

11 comes from me being stupid, misremembering, and not checking.

So, yes. 6.
posted by kyrademon at 3:51 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Josh Marshall doesn't think a Trump organization can raise the capital to launch a national cable network.

Trump will be hawking supplements and gold and gold-plated prepper gear on his own shitty website in six months. And then he gets to find out how difficult it is to sell advertising on a hate site.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:53 PM on October 17, 2016 [29 favorites]


(I think he'll also have to go on tour semi-permanently to scare up cash after his brand is trashed and his loans get called in, and this delights me, because he obviously hates it. You have to campaign forever, Donald, with all those babies and disgusting people and beds that aren't your own.)
posted by schadenfrau at 3:56 PM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


He could start a church.
posted by LobsterMitten at 3:57 PM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


And then he gets to find out how difficult it is to sell advertising on a hate site.
The current thinking is that it will be like Netflix for the alt right with cafeteria style programming including Drudge, InfoWars, Breitbart, Hannity, etc.
posted by xyzzy at 3:59 PM on October 17, 2016


Fuck these people.

@RosieGray
Clarke keeps referring to Hillary Clinton as "Mrs. Bill Clinton"
posted by chris24 at 3:59 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


I can't see a link to this above, apologies if it's a double. As a partial resolution to the Assange losing connectivity bit, don't piss off your landlord when they can change the wifi password.
posted by Slackermagee at 4:00 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trump will be hawking supplements and gold and gold-plated prepper gear on his own shitty website in six months. And then he gets to find out how difficult it is to sell advertising on a hate site.

I dunno, above we were talking about how there are like three or four cable news networks, however fledgling, to the right of Fox News. Someone's spending the money to sustain those, whether it's billionaire's just pushing their ideology or advertisers willing to pay money for the suckers who tune in to watch. If Trump does lose, he's still got enough of the country behind him that someone could use him as an instrument for connecting those suckers to the companies that make money off of suckers. Everyone remembers how much of the right wing noise machine was built by those affinity fraud mail scams, right? Unless we stop producing stupid people, I see no end to what Trump can do to monetize his brand, no matter how much the rest of us might hate it.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:01 PM on October 17, 2016


And then goes full mob violence again.

@wpjenna
Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke restates controversial tweet: "It is pitchfork and torches time in AMERICA!" Crowd chants: "USA! USA!"
posted by chris24 at 4:02 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


The current thinking is that it will be like Netflix for the alt right with cafeteria style programming including Drudge, InfoWars, Breitbart, Hannity, etc.
posted by xyzzy at 3:59 PM on October 17 [+] [!]


Oh that's interesting. I have trouble believing people will pay a subscription to feel angry, rather than to assuage a fear, and his audience has been trained to get their content for free.

Watching that fail would make the schadenfreude complete.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:03 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


"It is pitchfork and torches time in AMERICA!"

The nineteenth century?
posted by Sys Rq at 4:04 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


How the siege of Mosul could help Trump
The new military offensive against the Islamic State in the Iraqi city of Mosul has injected a risky and unpredictable dimension into the final stretch of the U.S. presidential race, including the prospect of retaliatory attacks that could embolden Donald Trump's struggling campaign.
...
Regardless of the target, any such attack plays into Trump's message of being the "law-and-order candidate" with a secret plan to wipe out the ISIL threat.
In 2004 the Bush administration delayed the assault on Fallujah until after the election "for obvious political reasons."

Jeez, how many times do we need to recapture these places anyways?
posted by kirkaracha at 4:04 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


No, no, the pitchforks and torches are just a metaphor, you see.

For guns.
posted by kyrademon at 4:04 PM on October 17, 2016 [42 favorites]


Paul Ryan is a classical liberal.
posted by phoque at 4:05 PM on October 17, 2016


Someone needs to gaslight Trump with a high quality sfx prosthetic that blinks sideways (preferably just before the debate) so that he starts ranting about lizard people.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:06 PM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


Mosul, Fallujah, Eurasia
posted by Yowser at 4:08 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]




I don't think that's how these things usually end.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:49 PM on October 17

I know, I'm being silly. I just have this vision of crowds of Trump lovers chanting for three hours and then being all tuckered out so that everyone has to go home and take a nap. And then wake up feeling refreshed and much more lighthearted having gotten all of the poison out of their system.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:10 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump can just continue to travel all over America and hold hate fests with lots of chanting

If they can't get a TV network off the ground, that would be one revenue generator. Add on some "featured speakers", hawk merch like books and t-shirts, and charge plenty per head. The true believers would bite at this bait like a starving marlin. It'd be like the Deadhead equivalent for white supremacists and deplorables.
posted by Ber at 4:12 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


I'm concerned about the Trump TV thing. Years of Fox News are what made Trump possible. And as bad as Fox is, a Trump network would undoubtedly be far worse. If 20 years of Fox gives us Trump (and the Republican party and voters who allowed and enabled him), what do 20 years (or less) of Trump TV give us?

If Trump TV ends up being a thing, and my cable company decides to carry it...then I will no longer patronize my cable company, if that's at all possible. (I only use them for broadband, and alternatives are limited in my area.) And I will be sure to tell them why.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:12 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]




Ohio MeFites, the Portman-Strickland Senator debate is streaming here.
posted by mostly vowels at 4:14 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


@akarl_smith Someone just said "Hey Fox, you suck too" after David Clarke said "we like Fox News"

Interesting. I think they are losing their focus. It is no longer just Hillary, no longer just Democrats, no longer just the Conservative GOP, no longer just liberal media, now it is everybody NOT Trump.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:19 PM on October 17, 2016 [15 favorites]


Trump can just continue to travel all over America and hold hate fests with lots of chanting

As much as I relish the notion of an endlessly touring Ungrateful Undead, it seems to me like the sort of fall Trump is heading for is going to end up with him maybe having a column on Breitbart or maybe he'll "edit" a section or something along those lines while someone on staff there ghostwrites a column for him and he cashes the not particularly impressive checks. I'm not even sure about that, though, particularly if reports saying Trump's licensees are thinking about suing him for wrecking the value of their investments in his brand turn out to be true. He's wrecking his luxury brands and at the same time, once/if the election dust settles, he'll have alienated a chunk of his current fandom because alpha dog dominant winners don't lose and endlessly spout off about how they were cheated. How big of a chunk that represents remains to be seen but he's not exactly becoming more credible as time goes and more and more cracks appear in the winner persona.
posted by feloniousmonk at 4:20 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


I saw a story earlier, - on a site of unclear provenance - that the OH GOP was standing down its ground game in various counties because of the bad blood between them and The Donald. Which would make sense, and be welcome, but I haven't been able to stand it up so far.
posted by Devonian at 4:22 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Wow. If Trump can't fill a 3600 seat theatre in Wisconsin...
posted by Sys Rq at 4:22 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


I have trouble believing people will pay a subscription to feel angry, rather than to assuage a fear, and his audience has been trained to get their content for free.
I agree that it's a problematic model because it firewalls content and reduces the social shareability that fuels places like /pol/ and r/the_donald. But as has been quite correctly pointed out, Dawn isn't gonna sell soap on Hate Network News. But Fox News has an ancient audience and Trump may be able to make a serious play for the more technologically inclined younger audience with disposable income. If he can offer up that sense of insider status that appealed to Trump U attendees while letting Bannon do all the heavy lifting he might be able to get some traction.
posted by xyzzy at 4:23 PM on October 17, 2016


Like father, like son

CNN Donald Trump Jr. joked about Aurora shooting, Arab stereotypes, overweight people in shock-jock interviews
On shows like "Opie and Anthony," the now-defunct "The Six Pack," and "Opie with Jim Norton," the younger Trump made a joke about the 2012 Aurora theater shooting, expressed regret he could no longer mock overweight people, invoked Arab stereotypes, and joked about child beauty contestants being abused by their parents.

The Trump son also noted there were hours of footage of the "The Apprentice" left on the cutting room floor that would appeal to those with a "sick sense of humor." [...]

"They yell at the kids like, yeah 'You didn't do good, you forgot to turn! You forgot your turn!' It's like ahh, the kid just goes 'Ahh' ... And then they do these interviews where it's like 'Oh she loves doing pageants it's her whole life," said one host.

"The kids, they're crying," Trump Jr. said.

"The kid's crying going, 'I want to go home,'" added the host.

"I just wanna play with Barbie," Trump Jr. said.

"'She beats me when you're not here,'" said the host.

"She's like limping," added Trump Jr., mocking a child's voice. "'Help me, help me.'"

Trump Jr. added of the moms at beauty pageants "they're all fat. Ugly."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:25 PM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


mostly vowels: So I've been trying to sign up to be a precinct worker for months now, and have been playing phone/email tag with our local BOE.

I worked at the polls here for the first time at our August primaries. It was a long and exhausting day--even though it was a pretty low-turnout election (mostly mail-in ballots), but I'm glad I did it.

I was invited to work again on November 8, but after some reflection I decided that my efforts would best be directed at GOTV, especially since we have a real chance at turning Arizona blue if we manage to get voters to the polls. I found the experience very educational and interesting, though, so I hope yours is just as positive.
posted by Superplin at 4:25 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


FWIW, C-SPAN tonight (times are EDT):

8:01PM Pennsylvania Senate Debate
9:01PM Florida Senate Debate
10:01PM Ohio Senate Debate
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:26 PM on October 17, 2016


Devonian, here's one of the stories about Trump's Ohio campaign directory feuding with the OHGOP.

It seems foolish AF if you ask me, because it seems like the OHGOP has been providing a ton of the local on the ground infrastructure for the Trump campaign. Meanwhile, Clinton's got like, 9 campaign offices in Cincinnati alone.
posted by mostly vowels at 4:27 PM on October 17, 2016


Paul Ryan is a classical liberal

Proof that Canadian graffiti artists can do a sick burn, too.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:33 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Yet the current news from the front about Mosul is that the operation is going well and they are ahead of schedule. IS has had a rough summer and appears to be fading.
posted by humanfont at 4:33 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


A Union Is Building A Wall Of Taco Trucks Outside Trump’s Las Vegas Hotel
The Culinary Union, long a Donald Trump antagonist in Las Vegas, is going to “build” a wall of taco trucks outside Trump’s hotel, just a couple miles from UNLV, site of the final presidential debate.

The groups aim to have at least five taco trucks outside the hotel, in addition to a banner in the style of a wall that participants will be able to sign.

“We’re reminding Mr. Trump that immigrant workers here and across the country will be watching the debate and voting in November,” said Yvanna Cancela, the political director for the majority Latino and predominantly immigrant union.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:34 PM on October 17, 2016 [91 favorites]


I've had a look for more details, but the only sites that talk about how the support is being actually withdrawn aren't ones I care to link to (google OH GOP ground game if you want to see what I mean).

But yeah - Ohio seems to be one of the absolutely-can't-afford-to-lose states for Trump. More evidence on the side that says he knows he can't win and is totally off-piste now.
posted by Devonian at 4:35 PM on October 17, 2016


BOOM

@adamsmithtimes
Patrick Murphy: Shameful of u, marco rubio, to say u decided to run for senate after pulse shooting, when u one of most anti-gay sens
posted by chris24 at 4:38 PM on October 17, 2016 [29 favorites]


Lol Buzzfeed
Taco trucks, featuring perennially sky high approval ratings, ...
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:38 PM on October 17, 2016 [17 favorites]


Senor Cardgage, I have also been really worried about domestic violence during/after the election. I pretty much expect it, between the rampant misogyny and reporting of women who were "secretly supporting Clinton" (AKA probably too scared to tell their family how they're voting).
posted by instamatic at 4:41 PM on October 17, 2016 [12 favorites]


Can anybody link a debunking of the most recent O'Keefe video? Given his record, I'm sure it's bullshit, but the people on my Facebook feed are all howling over it.
posted by stolyarova at 4:41 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


The feed sounds like shit. Like an AM radio in the basement. Someone's not getting paid.
posted by chris24 at 4:43 PM on October 17, 2016


Coming Soon: Trump GamerGate TV
posted by Yowser at 4:44 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


This is kind of a weird story. Defense contractor “white hat” tells FBI that Judicial Watch paid him to hunt for Clinton hack:
More records from the Federal Bureau of Investigation's review of Hillary Clinton's e-mail practices have been released through the FBI's Freedom of Information Act site, including interviews with a number of individuals related to the security of the server. One of them was an employee of a defense contractor who claimed he was funded by Judicial Watch to investigate whether Clinton was hacked.

In the interview, the individual, whose name was redacted, claimed that he used the services of Dark Horse Data, a company owned by former Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence Reginald Hyde, to search for e-mails associated with Clinton's personal account. The company focuses on "specialized data acquisition for both US and International customers" and has provided database intelligence analysis to the US government.

The credibility of that information, however, is certainly in doubt. Hyde denied that his company was involved in any such task, telling Ars Technica in a phone interview that he "was quite astounded to learn" of the assertion in the FBI documents and saying that it was like "being asked how your day on Mars was. My company was categorically not involved in this."
Newt, unsurprisingly, has his hands all over this.
posted by zachlipton at 4:45 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


Standing room only at the GOTV training and I randomly sat right next to mefite alison. Good omens!
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:46 PM on October 17, 2016 [83 favorites]


He only took about 10 seconds on the new FBI reveal today. Just added to his typical laundry list of email related crimes. So clearly a nothing burger.

EDIT: Ahh, coming back to it. Calling for Undersecretary Kennedy's resignation.
posted by chris24 at 4:50 PM on October 17, 2016


Coming Soon: Trump GamerGate TV

Pity the twitch.tv name is taken.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:51 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


>em> Call people by their name.

You just broke the first rule of Meta Club:

Don't tell ME what to do!
posted by y2karl at 4:51 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]






Sign-ecdote of the day: Yesterday there were two Clinton-Kaine signs in the neighborhood where my dad lives, one at the main intersection and one next to four local office signs on a corner lawn.

Today: Zero Clinton-Kaine signs. The thief left the local signs there because a hole in the middle of a row of signs looks perfectly natural.
posted by delfin at 4:57 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Jesus, I know the GOP is cracking up, but this thing is going down in flames.
posted by eclectist at 4:57 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Today: Zero Clinton-Kaine signs. The thief left the local signs there because a hole in the middle of a row of signs looks perfectly natural.

Because Trump has no coattails.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:00 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


RNC uses credit card skimmers to increase Trump donations. [Fake]
posted by AlexiaSky at 5:00 PM on October 17, 2016


Billy Bush: "NBC fired me today, but on the upside, at least they didn't call me Trump's peer." [fake]
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:02 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


We're past Breitbart. Trump is straight fucking Alex Jones right now.
posted by Talez at 5:03 PM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


Now attacking the validity of the elections.

Saying 1.8 million voters have had their registration cancelled

2.7 million are registered in multiple states.

Millions of non-citizens voted in 2008, 80% for Obama. And they made the difference in some Senate races and in one state in the presidential election.
posted by chris24 at 5:05 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


White House: It’s Ironic for Trump to Accuse Clinton of Taking Drugs Before Debates
“You’re telling me that the candidate who snorted his way through the first two debates is accusing the other candidate of taking drugs?” [White House press secretary Josh] Earnest asked. “That’s a curious development in the campaign.”

Asked if he believed that Trump’s sniffling had been drug-related, Earnest clarified that his quip hadn’t been made in earnest.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:06 PM on October 17, 2016 [30 favorites]


Pardon if this is a stupid question, but regarding Trump's nutty video and the on-going "lock her up" rhetoric, what specifically are they alleging that Hillary's "very high crimes" are?


WLRN out of Miami did an off thing today. They ran a news piece on air and web about Pence in Miami, interviewed presumable republicans, and then only posted partial quotes in the corresponding web article. Left in the on-air but out of the web version was that's Clinton is a war criminal, while Trump is a guy who did some lewd talk and has a sharp tongue.
posted by tilde at 5:07 PM on October 17, 2016


Trump is straight fucking Alex Jones right now.

oh god my brain help
posted by invincible summer at 5:09 PM on October 17, 2016 [29 favorites]


Why Donald Trump Won't Choose To ‘Lose With Grace’ | MSNBC

tl;dw, "Donald Trump isn't behaving rationally, or with any strategy, at this point."
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:13 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


I surmise, having worked closely with people who legit admire Trump, that the shitty quality of his video is purposely done. "Under siege" "This is so important I didn't have time for a crew to get here." "You won't hear THIS on the lame stream media outlets!"
posted by tilde at 5:13 PM on October 17, 2016 [12 favorites]


Wait, chemical waters turn nazi frogs gay leaks?

We're not hitchhiking anymore! We're riding!
posted by petebest at 5:14 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


The 538 podcast, which usually sticks to poll analysis of various kinds, is during the first half tonight outright saying that Donald Trump is a threat to democracy in America.
posted by kyrademon at 5:14 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


While there is no question that McMullin has many of the typical stances a conservative candidate usually has, and thus the attendant problems that go along with them, his recent tweetstorm does show why he also presents at least some hope for change among conservatives if he can gain a foothold on the right, and it's why I'm rooting for him. (Aside from the mefi's own aspect of course.)

I don't think @realDonaldTrump believes all men and women are created equal. @mindyfinn & I believed it was important to stand up for this.

A true conservative, when they see someone being attacked for race, etc., they will stand up & defend that person.

I believe it'll be difficult for the GOP to reform on this issue. I haven't closed the door entirely, but @mindyfinn & I are both skeptical.

Children need to be able to go to the best schools possible. That's how we break the cycle of poverty.

I believe in redemption. That's part of God's plan for all of us. #CriminalJusticeReform must include a way for people to get back on track.

Black lives do matter, of course they do.

I oppose the death penalty. It's too high a risk if we can get it wrong. It's someone's life.


I'm also amused that he retweeted one of his followers claims that, in Utah, a vote for Trump is a vote for Hillary. Interesting times...
posted by gusottertrout at 5:16 PM on October 17, 2016 [67 favorites]


>outright saying that Donald Trump is a threat to democracy in America.

Before this he's never been anything, publicly, except a punch line. Now he's somebody important and dangerous. He must be very proud.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:19 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


I like most of those tweets, but this one is just a dog-whistle for charter schools no?
Children need to be able to go to the best schools possible. That's how we break the cycle of poverty.
posted by peacheater at 5:19 PM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


Why Trump TV would fail

See also; Palin network, Glenn Beck's "The Blaze", Ron Paul channel (?), hell, Oprah took three years and $300M to break even.
posted by petebest at 5:20 PM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


the more folks on the left crow about how happy it would make them if 20% of the right's base possibly sat out the election in disillusionment, the more we can be painted as not supporting a robust democratic process where all voters feel comfortable participating...


It's not painting when you don't give permission. It's vandalism.

Where is the law and order when you need it?
posted by srboisvert at 5:20 PM on October 17, 2016


> Asked if he believed that Trump’s sniffling had been drug-related, Earnest clarified that his quip hadn’t been made in earnest.

Burn!
posted by rtha at 5:21 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


I didn't see this mentioned before, but Rasmussen has Clinton, McMullin, and Trump in a statistical three-way tie among likely voters in Utah:
Trump: 30%
Clinton: 28%
McMullin: 29%
posted by J.K. Seazer at 5:21 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


Trump spent the whole day off message and digging himself into a deeper hole. Also if you tell core supporters that it is rigged, then they might just decide not to bother standing in line to vote because it doesn't matter.
posted by humanfont at 5:22 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


See also; Palin network, Glenn Beck's "The Blaze", Ron Paul channel (?), hell, Oprah took three years and $300M to break even.

>2016
>thinking that the past is any indication of the future
posted by J.K. Seazer at 5:22 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Hey, this thread has a bottom! It's like seeing the sun for the first time after the deluge.

I've been an alternate judge for my precinct a few years back, but this time I didn't get a call from the party - probably because I was busy and didn't work the last few minor elections. I'm actually pretty bummed. I have Tuesday free and everything! Oh well, it's probably too late for the annual training anyway.

And I can't help it, but I teared up at the Let's Tell America It's Great video. I know, I know. But I've been feeling so beat down and demoralized and ashamed of being an American recently, and this just sort of hit the spot. Thank you, Canada!
posted by Salieri at 5:25 PM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]


So is Trump's messaging from earlier today and the crazy video not getting mainstream traction? Or will it dominate the news tomorrow?
posted by clever sheep at 5:25 PM on October 17, 2016


National Review: No, the Election Isn’t Rigged

"Donald Trump is playing the sore loser, and he hasn’t even lost yet."
posted by chris24 at 5:25 PM on October 17, 2016 [16 favorites]


So is Trump's messaging from earlier today and the crazy video not getting mainstream traction? Or will it dominate the news tomorrow?

He barely talked about it in his rally. Like 10 seconds in the laundry list of email crimes, then back to it 5 minutes later for another 10 seconds calling for Kennedy's resignation. So even he's not that crazy about it.
posted by chris24 at 5:27 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


I like most of those tweets, but this one is just a dog-whistle for charter schools no?

Possibly, but there's an argument to be made for charter schools. (Not a blanket acceptance.)

If Egg's ideas were predominating in the Republican party a couple years ago, I might still belong. Gerrymandering really has stunted them.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:29 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


Possibly not the celebrity endorsement MeFi has been waiting to hear back on, but someone asked Dave Bautista (Batista of WWE, Drax of Guardians of the Galaxy) if he would endorse Donald Trump. His response was appropriately subtle.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:30 PM on October 17, 2016 [65 favorites]


Well, a proposed Republican strategy just took a turn. Acknowledging Trump's going to lose, so let's try a constitutional crisis Hail Mary to keep Congress. Yeah, the Republican Party needs to be burned to the ground.

@SteveDeaceShow
To hold on to their congressional majorities, Republicans should promise voters they'll impeach Hillary by 2018.
posted by chris24 at 5:33 PM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


Utah's (black) GOP Chairman is now receiving death threats and calls with racial slurs telling him he's lucky he hasn't been lynched yet. [sadly, real]
posted by corb at 5:33 PM on October 17, 2016 [22 favorites]


Well, Republican strategy just took a turn. Acknowledging Trump's going to lose and a constitutional crisis Hail Mary to keep Congress. Yeah, the Republican Party needs to be burned to the ground.

If you really wanted to gum up the works you could continually send impeachments up to the Senate.
posted by Talez at 5:36 PM on October 17, 2016


The best surrogates.

@JonLemire
Melania Trump on CNN: "Sometimes i say I have two boys at home. I have my young son and i have my husband"
posted by chris24 at 5:37 PM on October 17, 2016 [21 favorites]


Wait, what?
Party Chairman James Evans received that threatening and racist phone threat after his comments on CNN raised his national profile as he brought up a story about an alleged Bill Clinton love child.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:38 PM on October 17, 2016


OK someone on the Chris Hayes show definitely just called him "McMuffin"
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:38 PM on October 17, 2016 [37 favorites]


So i'd more or less forgotten about this until now, but in the interest of "preventing fraud", my state (Missouri) imposes what is effectively a poll tax on mail-in absentee ballots. You see, if you request an absentee ballot, you have two options: return it in person to the elections office, or mail it back. However, if you mail it back, you have to get the sealed envelope notarized. Which isn't, generally speaking, something you can do for free. I'm out of the country, for instance, and the US consulate (effectively my only option right now, for Reasons) charges $50 for notarial service.

So it amounts to: if i want to vote, i have to pay fifty bucks. For me, that's not a huge issue, although i'm certainly weighing it against some other really important shit that i have to pay. But for people who make less money than me, this is actually a big fucking deal.

(Yeah, notaries cost less if you're not out of the country. But they generally cost more than nothing. And that is really not fucking acceptable, in this case?)
posted by adrienneleigh at 5:38 PM on October 17, 2016 [44 favorites]


re: our favorite independent, Margie Omero on Chris Hayes just said there is McMuFinnmentum "as they say."
posted by gatorae at 5:39 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


OK someone on the Chris Hayes show definitely just called him "McMuffin"

Gosh, really? You'd think there's zero chance McMullin hasn't been hearing this for basically his entire life.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:39 PM on October 17, 2016 [13 favorites]


Gerrymandering really has stunted them.
There is a case that has a chance to make it to the Supreme Court that opposes Democratic gerrymandering in Maryland. I have been following this case for ages and have high hopes that something will come of it.
posted by xyzzy at 5:40 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Broadway for Hillary, starting live now.
posted by zachlipton at 5:40 PM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


While there is no question that McMullin has many of the typical stances a conservative candidate usually has, and thus the attendant problems that go along with them, his recent tweetstorm does show why he also presents at least some hope for change among conservatives if he can gain a foothold on the right, and it's why I'm rooting for him.

Now that we know Clinton is going to sweep the nation, I'm rooting for Evan McMullin harder than anything in this election. Because even if she sweeps like no other, there are states that will vote Trump. I hate to say it, but there are. And on Election Night, I will stare at the map in a pit of despair at the idea that majorities of some states could look at Trump and think, "I want that." I will try to keep myself from white hot rage but it will fill me no matter what, I know. I will have a hard battle not to think "The world is exactly as terrible as I have always feared."

If Evan McMullin wins Utah, it will be a shining middle finger to Trump, and a light to soothe the worst demons of my nature and say, "Not everywhere. Not everywhere. Some deep red places where the red was the safest bet ever said, 'This far, but no further.' You can have at least some faith in people. Not a lot, but some. "

So yeah. I'm hoping for McMufFinnmentum. I'm hoping for something to show principles, somewhere.
posted by corb at 5:42 PM on October 17, 2016 [77 favorites]


There is a case that has a chance to make it to the Supreme Court that opposes Democratic gerrymandering in Maryland. I have been following this case for ages and have high hopes that something will come of it.

That may be the best course. It might mean one congressman/EV difference.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:45 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Some things you just can't make up.

@BenjySarlin
"Melania Trump tells CNN she wants her focus as First Lady to be combating negativity on social media.

Hmm."
posted by chris24 at 5:47 PM on October 17, 2016 [61 favorites]


Does Evan McMullin remind anyone else of What If Clark Gregg's Character From The West Wing Ran For President?
posted by Sara C. at 5:47 PM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]


It's probably not a coincidence that McMuffin's profile has been raised almost exactly a week after Trump started a blood feud with the GOP, right?
posted by Tevin at 5:47 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Unfortunate phrasing given recent events...
posted by Justinian at 5:48 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Yeah, notaries cost less if you're not out of the country. But they generally cost more than nothing.

At least around here, many bank branches have at least one employee who's a notary and who will notarize things for customers for free (and yes, I realize not everybody has a bank account).
posted by adamg at 5:48 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


"The FBI says you broke the law" [re: FBI/State 'quid pro quo' email]

No, the director of the FBI looked at all of the evidence -- including these previously unpublicized emails -- and decided there was nothing worth prosecuting.

The bottom line is that none of these emails are written by Hillary (which also implies her private email server is pretty much the only one in Washington that wasn't hacked). For anyone still undecided at this point, the video we already have of Trump saying horrendous shit can only be topped by words directly from the mouth of Hillary.
posted by msalt at 5:49 PM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


Broadway for Hillary is super fun already!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:50 PM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]




Utah's GOP Chairman has been talking about Bill Clinton's African American, son, he created with a prostitute. I have been looking at this cardboard cutout of a party leader, and just shaking my head about how crazy politics are in Utah. This guy could have said many positive things about the candidate he is endorsing, (good luck with that,) but he could have taken the high road. I can't even look at him because he is a shill to make Utah Republicans look better, but he should at least, stay on point.

I don't see who is finding fault with him. Because Democrats ignore him, Republicans put him there, but there is always the huge population of more fundamental polygamist groups in Utah, that did not accept the prophecy from the main church, that African Americans are equal in the eyes of their heavenly father. They always go off about there are only 40-50 thousand adults practicing polygamy in Utah, but collectively they have about 600,000 kids. They are a powerful force in state politics. That western land grab group is out of these clans, and they are home schooled, public schooled bigots. They do not like any African American show of power. That goes double for woman power. Imagine this, in Utah if you want to show video of Barack Obama, in class, you have to get parental permission. The kids can go elsewhere, the library or some such thing.
posted by Oyéah at 5:52 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


I disagree with a lot of McMullin's stances, and some of them I think are downright regressive and dangerous. But I also think he genuinely wants to work for the good of the country and would be willing to find common ground with Democrats on many issues, which absolutely cannot be said for the utterly morally bankrupt GOP leadership. I'd pick him over any Republican who's run in the presidential primary in my political memory (though I may be forgetting some minor unsuccessful figure). And I hope he wins Utah and demonstrates that there is a place for that attitude in the GOP.
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:53 PM on October 17, 2016 [29 favorites]


At the Broadway event, Chelsea telling a story of a Guatemalan child who is taunted at school to "go back to Mexico" and told that other kids can't "wait until we build a wall to keep you out."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:54 PM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


Lol, 3 weeks and fighting Ryan as much as Clinton.

@TomLlamasABC
Trump tells me Speaker Ryan may not want him to win the election: "maybe he wants to run in 4 years" More tomorrow on @GMA @ABCPolitics
posted by chris24 at 5:54 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Trump tells me Speaker Ryan may not want him to win the election: "maybe he wants to run in 4 years" (from Tom Llamas' twitter.)

Will Paul Ryan grow a spine, ever. Is he just permanently sitting there with his hangdog sad eyes going on about his "Better Way," or alternately, his rictus-like grin all "everything's fine," while the GOP is on fire? Seriously. Is he a moral void? Is he devoid of even the smallest, tiniest shred of backbone or love of country? Come on, Ryan.
posted by yasaman at 5:54 PM on October 17, 2016 [27 favorites]


YES, that was a dogwhistle for charter schools. Very profitable (even the non profit ones #askmehowiknow). For profit prisons are going, shitty charter schools next (I say as a parent who uses one and had little to no alternatives for one of my 2e kids).

There are good, well run, honest to goodness community's based charter schools. I know of TWO in Florida and mine isn't one. No idea how to tackle the rest.

Spent an evening talking school shop talk with a friend who has both used local charter schools and is a cop at a local high school. We've got a lot of underlying issues to sort first (poverty, bigotry, etc). Florida! The further north you go ...
posted by tilde at 5:55 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


Chelsea Clinton is speaking at the Broadway For Hillary event, talking about kids who've come up to her at campaign events, including one girl who said she wants Hillary to win, first "because we need a girl," and second, because if she loses, "some of the kids at school tell me my dad is going to have to go back in the closet and there are monsters there."

What this election has done is so damaging.
posted by zachlipton at 5:55 PM on October 17, 2016 [68 favorites]


At least around here, many bank branches have at least one employee who's a notary and who will notarize things for customers for free (and yes, I realize not everybody has a bank account).
Yup. And that's a solution for some folks. But poor people, in particular, are often unbanked; and even if not, taking advantage of that still requires being able to get to that one branch during banker's hours -- which, well, if you can't get to the polling place because you have to work, why is this any better?
posted by adrienneleigh at 5:55 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


Chelsea Clinton speaking at the Broadway For Hillary concert: 8 year old girl told her "your mom has to win because some kids at school told me if she doesn't my dad might have to go back in the closet, and there are monsters there."
posted by dnash at 5:55 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


"Melania Trump tells CNN she wants her focus as First Lady to be combating negativity on social media.

She could get rid of 50% of the negativity just by taking away Donald's phone!
posted by mmoncur at 5:56 PM on October 17, 2016 [23 favorites]


adrienneleigh: Democrats Abroad may have notaries available at their events. Probably worth a quick check.
posted by nat at 5:58 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


if you want to show video of Barack Obama, in class, you have to get parental permission

Wait, what? I tried to find a source on that, but no luck. Can you provide more information?
posted by Miko at 5:58 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


First Lady Michelle Obama reportedly informed the Democratic National Committee today that they would be completely on their own once the election was over. [fake from the onion]


That picture is perfect.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:59 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


As i said, i have this under control. I just have to decide whether it's actually worth it to me to pay $50 and drive for two hours (to the consulate and back) to get my vote counted in a state that's going to elect mostly Republicans no matter what.

But "you have to get your mail-in ballot notarized" is absolutely a tax on people's time and energy and probably money, and rather defeats the purpose of voting by mail in the first damn place because you still have to do part of it during "normal" business hours.
posted by adrienneleigh at 5:59 PM on October 17, 2016 [28 favorites]


To hold on to their congressional majorities, Republicans should promise voters they'll impeach Hillary by 2018.

Jesus. So this is where partisanship is taking us. Our elected President can't place his nominee on the Supreme Court and now even if Clinton is lawfully elected and chosen to be President by a vast majority, the Republicans won't allow her to do her job because she is a Democrat.

Where does it end? I would like to think that demographics are on our side but at this point Republicans control both houses of congress and the Governor's office in 34 states. That's a lot of power-- and 2018 will undoubtedly give them more control.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:59 PM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


It would be a great pro-democracy action for people who are notaries in that state to provide their services gratis at libraries or similar.
posted by Miko at 6:01 PM on October 17, 2016 [14 favorites]


I guess my point was, maybe there's an event closer to you and you don't have to drive/pay 50$.

But you're right, the real issue is that requiring a notary is pretty anti-access. True that.
posted by nat at 6:02 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


I promise you that we will be united against any Supreme Court nominee that Hillary Clinton, if she were president, would put up," McCain

That's... well played, John. He's taken a "no shit, everyone knows that" yawner and said it out loud. But that's not the actual point, the timing is. He's taking away Trump apologists' "you HAVE to vote for Trump no matter what because the supreeeme coooooort" excuse. He's saying, eh. That's not actually that critical. Go ahead and vote for Clinton, just make sure to keep the Senate.

It's another shot in the GOP vs. Trump war.
posted by ctmf at 6:03 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


Sarah Jones: The "Great White Way" is not a policy mandate.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:03 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


Today: Zero Clinton-Kaine signs. The thief left the local signs there because a hole in the middle of a row of signs looks perfectly natural.

This reminds me, yesterday I spent a good chunk of my day on I-55 between Bloomington, IL and St. Louis, so going through some relatively red counties. During the trip, I saw two home-made Trump signs (nothing says Presidential like weathered plywood) and about half a dozen very professional looking not quite billboards in the front yards of the farms along the frontage road. Each of these featured four candidates, none of whom were Clinton or Trump. Then I found the Rosetta stone - a commercial billboard featuring the same four signs with a Trump sign on the end.

I may be reading more into this than is there, but to me that suggests that the Sangamon or Macoupin County Republican Party wanted to place Trump signs and the farmers told them "No. But the regional folks are OK."
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 6:04 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


Donald Trump may be a threat to global democracy, experts warn

“It’s not just the damage that happens to America as a result of this but the damage that happens to the reputation of democracy worldwide. Where dictators say, ‘Well, if America’s going to do this, then so can we.’ So it really encourages the worst abuses of human rights,” she said...

...There is no precedent in American history, four professors said in interviews Monday, for Trump’s claim that the election is rigged. In fact, said prominent fascism scholar Stanley Payne, even 20th-century European fascists did not go so far.

“Even back in the era of great conflict, back in the ‘30s, things were not this pointed and clear-cut,” said Payne, professor emeritus at the University of Wisconsin. “The (British Union of Fascists) did not make that kind of charge in England. Nor would you have found it in Northern Europe. Nor did the Nazis really make that kind of charge in Germany.”
posted by chris24 at 6:07 PM on October 17, 2016 [28 favorites]


I like most of those tweets, but this one is just a dog-whistle for charter schools no?

Yeah, that might be, but even as someone generally very opposed to the idea of charter schools, I'd really love to have an actual national debate on the topic with the actual explicit shared goal of 'best possible education for all'. There are coherent arguments to be made for charter schools, and valid criticisms to be made about the public school system.

What I'm sick of is blanket defunding of state universities and school districts in the name of fiscal responsibility and the demonizing of teachers because they are unionized and easy to scapegoat when educational achievement is so highly valued by parents. Education is supposed to be an area where both parties have the same goal, good schools for every child. We can and should have a serious national conversation about where our education policy is going in this country, and I don't care if it's between actual schools and charter schools, we're adrift right now in a lot of the country because the GOP doesn't get past the "taxes shouldn't pay for it" step.
posted by neonrev at 6:07 PM on October 17, 2016 [13 favorites]


In addition to banks, lawyer's offices will sometimes notarize things for you for free. See also legal aid clinics, local politicians' offices, universities or other larger organizations, etc. You need someone who is a notary public in order to witness affidavits, so organizations whose political, activism, or job-related activities sometimes have a component of taking official statements from people will often have someone on staff certified as a notary public. And you also need a notary public to notarize certain financial reporting statements, thus banks and universities having someone on staff certified as a notary public.

Not that that's widely known information, thus still an exclusionary requirement for voting an absentee ballot.
posted by eviemath at 6:10 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Also this Twitter thread (about Thiel, and how SV in general thinks of politics) is really good.
...politics isn't about differences of opinion

Politics is about who is about who has power and who doesn't
posted by adrienneleigh at 6:11 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


adrienneleigh: Personally, it'd be worth the $50 to me for the fairly real chance of voting Roy Blunt out of office, but YMMV. (And I understand your point fully. It's pretty terrible.)
posted by jferg at 6:12 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


MeFites United is now sixth place, but we can make up ground. Make five calls. They're all Democratic voters, so it's fine.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:12 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Utah, Obama parental permission.

Here
, Another take My art students wanted to see the Obama inauguration speech. I said that was OK, because it was a landmark event in our history. I think some had made bets he would be assassinated. Whatever. Right after that there was a lock down on showing video of the president of the US.
posted by Oyéah at 6:14 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


See also; Palin network, Glenn Beck's "The Blaze", Ron Paul channel (?)

I've heard of the first two, but I had to Google the Ron Paul channel.


Which reminds me, I'm surprised this election isn't getting more recognition in this thread. Metafilter can be such a fucking echo chamber.
posted by duffell at 6:19 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Isn't it kind of insane to require absentee ballots to be notarized, just considering their purpose? Aren't most of them -- in the traditional sense where we're not talking about vote by mail by another name -- for people who are either living abroad, traveling long-term outside of their home state, or won't be able to make it to the polls for some reason?

So either you're creating the very situation adrienneleigh finds herself in (overseas with no good way to get something notarized), or situations where people in extenuating and complicated circumstances who now have ANOTHER hurdle to jump to get to vote.

Even leaving issues like not everyone having access to a bank aside. Isn't this exactly the opposite of the point?
posted by Sara C. at 6:19 PM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


So either you're creating the very situation adrienneleigh finds herself in (overseas with no good way to get something notarized), or situations where people in extenuating and complicated circumstances who now have ANOTHER hurdle to jump to get to vote.

The US doesn't have the ability to drag someone into court who would falsify a vote while overseas. Therefore the notary acts as both the defense and the deterrent.
posted by Talez at 6:22 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Here's the Broadway for Hillary set list, should you want to know what's coming up. The Hamilton, naturally, is at the end.
posted by zachlipton at 6:23 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


The notarization requirement for absentee ballots sounds like an ADA violation that needs a class-action lawsuit to fix, complete with data from other states about how they manage to not have massive voter fraud with their absentee ballots.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 6:23 PM on October 17, 2016 [18 favorites]


Sara C. - Yes, it is exactly the opposite of the point. It's absolutely a stealth disenfranchisement measure in a very Republican state (and one with a huuuuuge urban/rural divide, and racial politics that have literally not improved since the Civil War.)

jferg - Agreed, Blunt is a fucker and he needs to be thrown out with the trash. I'm trying to figure out how to make this work around my various issues. But i'm really not just infuriated on my own behalf; ultimately, i have the resources to deal with this bullshit. Many people don't.
posted by adrienneleigh at 6:24 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


@JonLemire Chants of "CNN sucks" in crowd, Trump responds: "They really do."

@tripgabriel On the night his wife is on Anderson Cooper??

@BeckettAdams covered much of Melania's appearance on CNN. I found this interesting: Melania notes most of the negative press comes from female reporters...

I did not find that statement in the CNN article about the interview.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:26 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


The US doesn't have the ability to drag someone into court who would falsify a vote while overseas. Therefore the notary acts as both the defense and the deterrent.
Talez - this is not a federal ballot (those are for permanent residents of other countries who are still US voters -- and they do not have to be notarized.) This is a Missouri state absentee ballot, and this rule is strictly state-level.
posted by adrienneleigh at 6:27 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


If you need something notarized for free, check your local library. Mine has 3 notaries on staff.
posted by Biblio at 6:27 PM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


That Ayodele Casel tap piece was incredible. I was just about bawling in my living room.
posted by timestep at 6:28 PM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]


I love Pat Bagley, the political cartoonist for the Salt Lake Tribune. He always has depth.
posted by Oyéah at 6:29 PM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


"It would be a great pro-democracy action for people who are notaries in that state to provide their services gratis at libraries or similar."

Lots of public librarians are notaries, me included. Give us a call--worst-case scenario, we say no.
posted by box at 6:30 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Daily Beast exclusive: Apprentice Staffer Claims Gary Busey Groped Her. And Then Donald Trump Laughed.
Oscar nominee Gary Busey allegedly sexually assaulted a female Apprentice employee during his time on the show, five Apprentice employees tell The Daily Beast. Donald Trump knew about the incident, laughed it off, and kept Busey on his TV series, these staffers said.

Multiple Apprentice employees, including the alleged victim herself, told The Daily Beast that the Academy-Award-nominated actor “grabbed” one of their colleagues “firmly between [the] legs” during the 2011 season of Celebrity Apprentice. Busey also forcibly put the female staffer’s hand on the crotch of his pants. The alleged incident, which they say took place during a location shoot in SoHo in New York City, prompted a firestorm among members of the Apprentice crew.
posted by zachlipton at 6:30 PM on October 17, 2016 [26 favorites]


How can it be an "ADA violation" outside the borders of the US?

It's not that onerous given that there's no other recourse to prevent fraud.
posted by spitbull at 6:30 PM on October 17, 2016


timestep, I'd never heard of her and was stoked to get to see what she's all about.
posted by Sara C. at 6:30 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm back from GOTV training, cursing the fact that my husband is out of damn town the whole weekend prior to the election (at a con, ffs) which means that I'm looking after a preschooler solo and can't really do that much when it really counts (I have taken Soren Jr. canvassing and he does fine, but one shift is enough for him, I can't really take him all over hill and dale for multiple shifts). But I am going to take off work on Monday the 7th and I'm signed up for the whole day.

This door knocking script is VERY LONG and I am not an actor so I'm going to have to like walk around the house reading it every night out loud. And there's the part where I can interject my own personal story and, I am a very bland middle class white lady so I have no idea. I have no compelling origin story. My dad's an immigrant but... he's a college professor from Canada. *sad trombone* Sooo idk. "I relate to Hillary on a Hermione-to-Hermione level"?

tl;dr I am fired up but I am not entirely ready to go. But there were hot and cold running yard signs.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:33 PM on October 17, 2016 [29 favorites]


How can it be an "ADA violation" outside the borders of the US?

The requirement is in-state as well as overseas. Note that many (most?) other states have no such requirement, so it doesn't seem to be necessary to prevent fraud.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 6:33 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Talez - this is not a federal ballot (those are for permanent residents of other countries who are still US voters -- and they do not have to be notarized.) This is a Missouri state absentee ballot, and this rule is strictly state-level.

Then that's just nutter butters.
posted by Talez at 6:34 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


The absentee notarization seems like it'd also hit hard on people in the armed forces.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 6:36 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]



Come on this election is fucked up strange beyond all, must now we have Busey?
posted by vrakatar at 6:37 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


Neil Patrick Harris performing at the Broadway For Hillary show just brought me to tears doing "Origin of Love" from Hedwig and the Angry Inch.
posted by dnash at 6:37 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


dnash, Emily Blunt is now killing me.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:38 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


OMG BERNADETTE PETERS THIS IS NOT A DRILL
posted by Sara C. at 6:39 PM on October 17, 2016 [22 favorites]


I was so sad Emily Blunt only got a reprise until Bernadette popped up. Love her!
posted by mochapickle at 6:39 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


PA Senate debate: Vote Trump much?

McGinty even ceded her response time to Toomey to put the spotlight back on him. Pressed repeatedly by the moderators at KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh to say whether he will tell voters how he's going to vote in the presidential election, Toomey finally said "at some point I probably will."
posted by petebest at 6:39 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Emily Blunt's intro for Bernadette was BRILLIANT, btw-- she brought up all the ugly rhetoric Trump's been spouting, and used that to segue into 'Children Will Listen.'
posted by nonasuch at 6:42 PM on October 17, 2016 [14 favorites]


Bill has to follow Bernadette? Good luck, sir.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:42 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


This is silly, but I couldn't get this out of my head all day, and so a riffback from way upthread:

Failed Fascist Donald Trump
Exiled Insurrectionist Donald Trump
Trump TV majority shareholder Donald Trump


Actual Cannibal DONALD TRUMP!
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:42 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Is it just me or is this like the ultimate musical theater mixtape on the theme of "Stronger Together"?
posted by Sara C. at 6:42 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


That Ayodele Casel tap piece was incredible. I was just about bawling in my living room.
posted by timestep at 9:28 PM on October 17


Eponytastic!
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:43 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]



McGinty even ceded her response time to Toomey to put the spotlight back on him. Pressed repeatedly by the moderators at KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh to say whether he will tell voters how he's going to vote in the presidential election, Toomey finally said "at some point I probably will."


More profiles in courage. He's the poster boy for the banality of evil. Like, he's not over the top mustache twirling like some of these Republican schmucks but he's just blandly terrible. Like mayonnaise on a shit sandwich. (McGinty, frankly, is just as bland, but she's at least on my team and won't work to obstruct governmental institutions.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:46 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


Trump's new Five-Point Plan for Ethics Reform (real)
posted by gatorae at 6:46 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Phone bank update: I recommend calling into Alaska if you're nervous or just want an uplift. Everyone I talked to today was really excited to be getting a call (and that Alaska might be in play!). Tons of enthusiasm!
posted by melissasaurus at 6:47 PM on October 17, 2016 [16 favorites]


So Darrell Issa is struggling in his reelection. How badly? He's sending out a mailer bragging about working with Obama to pass a bill. Darrell. Issa.

@igorbobic
Darrell Issa is running this mailer. Incredible
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/darrell-issa-doug-applegate-trump_us_58038d74e4b06e04759557c5
[image of mailer]
posted by chris24 at 6:48 PM on October 17, 2016 [20 favorites]


spitbull - this has zero to do with being out of the country; it is a Missouri requirement for all mail-in ballots. If you cast one because you're outside your precinct on voting day, but you live just down the street? You still have to geet it notarized if you can't drop it off in person.

To everyone saying "oh, this is just a totally reasonable anti-fraud measure" - the federal government does not have this requirement. If i were a permanent resident of this country (rather than a resident of the state of Missouri who happens to be out of the country right now), the US government would send me a ballot specifically for "US citizens voting abroad". And that ballot? Would not have to be notarized.

This is absolutely not about fraud prevention. It's about disenfranchisement of poor & minority folks.
posted by adrienneleigh at 6:49 PM on October 17, 2016 [50 favorites]


Trump can just continue to travel all over America and hold hate fests with lots of chanting.

If he started charging for tickets, would people show up? An extra $20 gets you a meet-and-greet and a signed steak.
posted by holgate at 6:50 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Meanwhile Trump has his own interview on FOX (naturally) where this happened:

@SopanDeb Savage asks Trump: "Donald, where did they get all of these tarts from? Where did these tarts come from?"
Savage: Donald, where did- Donald, where did they get all of these tarts from?
Where did these tarts come from?

Trump: Michael, there's a backlash like I've never seen before. I just heard from Mike Pence. He said there's a backlash like he's never seen. People know it's all phony stuff. And that's why I say the election is rigged. It's rigged by the media. They're willing to put front page stories on that are lies. And the elections are rigged by the media. And by the way, they're also -- if you look at the polls, and the polling places in various cities, they're also rigged in the cities, let's not kid ourselves, in different places.
I note that he names no specific cities. If he named a city then his statement could be refuted. It's just a nebulous "various cities."

But tarts is the real reason why I am quoting this. Tarts. It's just a polite form of whores. So anyone accusing Trump of inappropriate touching is a whore. Got it.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:51 PM on October 17, 2016 [61 favorites]


Trump's new Five-Point Plan for Ethics Reform (real)

Hahahaha. Oh holy cats! His fifth point:

Fifth: I am going to ask Congress to pass a campaign finance reform that prevents registered foreign lobbyists from raising money in American elections.

I could finally even again and now I can't.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:51 PM on October 17, 2016 [22 favorites]


The absentee notarization seems like it'd also hit hard on people in the armed forces.
ErisLordFreedom - i am not 100% sure but i think military folks get the "US citizens voting abroad" federal ballot, rather than a given state ballot. Which, again, has no notarization requirement.
posted by adrienneleigh at 6:51 PM on October 17, 2016


Why are my Facebook algorithms thinking I need to see a warning that Matt Drudge is about to prove that Hillary raped a child sex slave named Cathy O'Brien? What the ever living F, Facebook?

Facebook recently fired all the journalisty people who used to curate the things that the algorithms suggested. So now it's a complete mess.

But don't worry, I'm sure Melania will fix everything!
posted by zennie at 6:51 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]




From the ethics reform plan (who the heck comes up with new policy a few weeks before the election?):


Fifth: I am going to ask Congress to pass a campaign finance reform that prevents registered foreign lobbyists from raising money in American elections.


"Pass a campaign finance reform?" Your plan is seven sentences long and, you couldn't be bothered to proofread it? And Congress is barely able pass gas nowadays, let alone campaign finance reform bills.
posted by zachlipton at 6:53 PM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


From the number of homebrew Trump merch I've seen, I doubt they'd have the cash on hand for tickets to see him talk, but all kinds of articles seem to be saying that his supporters are wealthier than we think.

Now, an MLM, yeah, his followers would go all in for that. All the satisfaction (for him) of the grift plus the illusion of "entrepreneurship" for his deplorables.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 6:53 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Oh good lord. From tonight's Trump rally
posted by peacheater at 6:53 PM on October 17, 2016 [51 favorites]


You want to hate Bill Clinton for all that various shit that he's done but god dammit he's a ridiculously charming person.
posted by Talez at 6:54 PM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]


Tarts?

Countdown to "broads." Oooh, or "skirts?"
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:56 PM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


(And i have been helpfully informed elsewhere that the notarization requirement may not apply to me anyway, since i am out of the country. Which is great! I need to call the Missouri Secretary of State's office to sort this out, apparently!

But it doesn't change my initial complaint, which is that this amounts to a poll tax whether it applies to me personally or not.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 6:56 PM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


You want to hate Bill Clinton for all that various shit that he's done but god dammit he's a ridiculously charming person.

Exactly! That was an outrageously great, heartfelt, effective, genuine speech that touched me to my core. I will never get over how one person can be so fucking horrible and wonderful all at once.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:57 PM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


From the HuffPo article linked above:
Political watchers see the Issa race as a barometer of broader political winds. For the first time in his career, the congressman’s re-election is in doubt. The Cook Political Report, a nonpartisan newsletter that analyzes elections and campaigns, moved Issa’s race from the “likely Republican” column to “toss up” last week.
Boy I wouldn't mind seeing Issa gone. He is one of the strongest voices in congress for privatizing the US. Post Office-- it's his little hobbyhorse much to the dismay of the half a million postal workers.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:58 PM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


Oh good lord. From tonight's Trump rally

Jesus, WHAT?! I... Just... UGH.
posted by arcolz at 7:00 PM on October 17, 2016 [46 favorites]


This door knocking script is VERY LONG and I am not an actor so I'm going to have to like walk around the house reading it every night out loud.

First rule of canvas club, is fuck the script.

Second rule of canvas club is FUCK THE SCRIPT!

Seriously, there's two or three questions they care about. Figure out what they are, and figure out a natural way to bring them up. That's your new script.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:02 PM on October 17, 2016 [13 favorites]


Oh my heck! Trump molesting a child in video! She plainly has no need to be kissed by a stranger, and knows better!
posted by Oyéah at 7:03 PM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


Yeah that clip from tonight's rally will be all over the news networks by tomorrow. That is not because of media conspiracy. What the hell are they thinking and I feel for that kid.
posted by vrakatar at 7:03 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Oh good lord. From tonight's Trump rally

What
the
fuck
Trump?
Talk about a Greg Stillson moment. Jesus. Yuck. That poor little girl.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:04 PM on October 17, 2016 [12 favorites]


Jesus, WHAT?! I... Just... UGH

I saw references to children being passed up to Trump during his rally-- I guess this is part of his shtick now. He must have decided that Clinton was winning because she is sweet to children so he is going to steal her thunder.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:04 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


Yo Mr. Trump can you stop trying to kiss girls for ten freaking minutes in the middle of your girl-kissing scandal
posted by theodolite at 7:09 PM on October 17, 2016 [69 favorites]


The intermission song choices at Broadway For Hillary are gloriously on-point, btw-- they're now playing "Brave" by Sara Bareilles, and before that was "Stronger" by Kelly Clarkson.
posted by nonasuch at 7:09 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


> Donald Trump may be a threat to global democracy, experts warn

“It’s not just the damage that happens to America as a result of this but the damage that happens to the reputation of democracy worldwide. Where dictators say, ‘Well, if America’s going to do this, then so can we.’ So it really encourages the worst abuses of human rights,” she said...


This is one of my selfish worries about the election; bad right-wing ideas have a way of migrating up north to Canada, and I'm sure our country's ratfuckers are studying Trump's tactics intently and figuring out ways they can be applied to our very different system of government. Above and beyond that, this election feels like the end of America as a functioning democracy, under its current system at least.

On the bright side, I have a loooong history of making what turn out to be spectacularly wrong predictions.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:09 PM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


I seriously thought I was hallucinating when I saw that clip. Can a mod add a [real but horrific] tag?
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:11 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


You want to know why a '90s retro movement never happened? When you look back in time to admire an era, it's not supposed to look like a cool future you were denied. The end of progress rather than a step leading to greater progress. Obama, as an amazing President as he has been, has was unable our unwilling to bring the fight to an intractable Congress like Bill did. Clinton is not the masterful orator Obama is. She is not the inspired problem solver he is. She is a ruthless schemer, back-room arm twister, and she understands policy and how to craft it so the other side of the aisle wants a bite of it for their own constituents.

Like all good franchise reboots, hers will aim higher than the original.

I just hope it's BSG and not PPG.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:11 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


Note, this is not an actual call for aural violence.

Awww man, I missed the discussion about calling McMullin "Egg." Would have recommended that people who disrespect him get a clout in the ear.
posted by dhens at 7:11 PM on October 17, 2016


Anna Wintour just threw major shade at Trump (not by name) for having "hideously ugly" ties that aren't even made in America.
posted by Lexica at 7:12 PM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


The Card Cheat: "I'm sure our country's ratfuckers are studying Trump's tactics intently and figuring out ways they can be applied to our very different system of government."

Anything that Trump's doing now was pioneered by Rob Ford. Which is not to say that Trump takes inspiration from anyone but himself — it's more like how Newton and Leibniz both discovered calculus independent of one another.
posted by savetheclocktower at 7:13 PM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


some woman in the audience is being picked up by the crowd mic juuuuust enough that i could make out her saying "any snow is a lot of snow when you're naked in your underwear." this is great.
posted by nonasuch at 7:14 PM on October 17, 2016 [15 favorites]


My nine year old son asked who that was on the screen and I was so choked up I could hardly get out "Bernadette Peters". Watching her sing on this Broadway show "Children Will Listen", one of my favorite Sondheim songs from definitely my favorite Sondheim musical was just killing me. We had just talked yesterday about how it's okay for boys and men to cry. It completely washed away the memory of seeing a "Hillary for Prison" bumper sticker on the way home.
posted by vverse23 at 7:15 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]




That poor little girl having to protect herself from a creep, especially that one. Ugh.
posted by tilde at 7:15 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


Oh my god dueling Annies on the Broadway for Hillary thing 10-year-old me just exploded
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:15 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


I'm so charmed that SJP has short bitten nails like me. I started biting them again a few months ago after the RNC...
posted by mochapickle at 7:16 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Over-under on Barbra actually performing for real?
posted by Sara C. at 7:18 PM on October 17, 2016


Nope, just a pre-recorded thing with Jamie Foxx of all people.
posted by Sara C. at 7:19 PM on October 17, 2016


Vile misogynist garbage on Twitter directed at Melania Trump. I mean, there are plenty of legit things to critique her on. I can't imagine what kind of stuff her husband spews at her. The thing I have learned most from this election is that Twitter is an open sewer.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 7:20 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


Burhanistan, it's generally called forced prostiturion.
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:20 PM on October 17, 2016


Regarding notarized ballots, I'm pretty sure it's illegal to ask for payment to notarize a ballot. At least as of 10 years ago when I needed a notarization for my absentee Oklahoma ballot. They specifically mentioned that part in the ballot info.

Now if you don't want to piss off the random notary you found online after moving to a new city where you want to vote in your first ever election but you're in school out of state with no money and this is your only option... I have no advice for that...
posted by downtohisturtles at 7:20 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


The thing I have learned most from this election is that Twitter is an open sewer.

What a coincidence, Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff discovered the same thing. Saved his shareholders a shit ton of money.
posted by tclark at 7:22 PM on October 17, 2016 [26 favorites]


downtohisturtles - I'm not sure how they could enforce that on out-of-state notaries, though?
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:22 PM on October 17, 2016


Seriously, where do all these people come from? I would have expected the frothing-at-the-mouth bigot contingent to have stayed on AOL chatrooms.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 7:23 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


If, God's forbid, Donald should win, that girl will grow up to lead the revolution, and someday she will mount his head on a stake as warning to all who would touch us without our permission.

But seriously, that poor kid.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:24 PM on October 17, 2016 [24 favorites]


So, the campaign is TOTALLY going to let Kelli O'Hara and Anne Hathaway sing "Happy Days Are Here Again" after her victory speech, right?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:26 PM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


People, Jason Kander is doing a TRIPLE MATCH. I will send any mefite who helps MO out a six of Schlafly and a bag of Rippies.
posted by asockpuppet at 7:28 PM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


Hillen Mirren - Woooo!
posted by peacheater at 7:30 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Wow that's like Dukakis driving a tank bad campaign optics.
posted by humanfont at 7:30 PM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


Question for any HR lawyers, with the fact that there is sexual harassment and assault going on on the Apprentice set, would any whistleblower laws that cover employee/employer relations outweigh any NDAs? Catching my wife up on the day's election activity and talking about the Busey thing and she's an HR executive, but not a lawyer, and she says that the NDAs of a big tech company she previously worked for wouldn't protect against illegal activity.
posted by chris24 at 7:32 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


That's Sir Helen Mirren to you!
posted by mochapickle at 7:32 PM on October 17, 2016 [16 favorites]


I was just remarking unrelatedly on how I didn't grow up with the idea that a kid had the right to refuse a public kiss and cuddle from a respectable grownup in front of the parents. That child's parents may not have gotten the memo that we don't just let that happen anymore.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:32 PM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


If, God's forbid, Donald should win, that girl will grow up to lead the revolution, and someday she will mount his head on a stake as warning to all who would touch us without our permission

Tamika Flynn: The Quickening
posted by Countess Elena at 7:33 PM on October 17, 2016 [20 favorites]


A Wicked song without Idina and Kristen?
posted by vuron at 7:33 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


He is too stupid to realize that this disgusting kid kiss is validating all of these women's stories about his gross behavior. Don't kiss anybody without their consent! How hard is that?!?!?!?!?
posted by gatorae at 7:34 PM on October 17, 2016 [29 favorites]


Dukakis driving a tank bad campaign optics
Thank you humanfront, that was the metaphor I was looking for.
posted by vrakatar at 7:35 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


God, Melania just blathered to Anderson Cooper like 2 hours ago about how Donald isn't comfortable touching people he doesn't know. That'll make a nice split-screen, ugh. UGH!
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:36 PM on October 17, 2016 [19 favorites]


Dukakis in the tank at Michigan.
Bush, his flight suit open wide.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:38 PM on October 17, 2016 [45 favorites]


The Melania- Anderson Cooper interview just seemed so icky. It's obvious that the Trump campaign is trying to use Melania as a way of humanizing Donald and to a certain degree Anderson Cooper is just using Melania for the spectacle and ratings.
posted by vuron at 7:39 PM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


Dukakis and the tank, if you are young enough to not remember. Also lawn get off it.
posted by vrakatar at 7:39 PM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


Huh, I've never... actually seen the ad? (I was, um, three years old at the time.)

It is way less awkward than I had been led to believe.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:42 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


The Bush/Dukakis election is the first one I remember (I was 7), and I don't actually remember the tank thing.

--

Meanwhile Angela Bassett is doing the Sojourner Truth "Ain't I A Woman" speech.
posted by Sara C. at 7:44 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


Re: the notarization requirement in MO -- it doesn't apply to overseas voters.

https://www.sos.mo.gov/elections/goVoteMissouri/howtovote
:

This identification requirement, as well as the notary requirement for absentee ballots, does not apply to overseas voters, those on active military duty or members of their immediate family living with them or voters who are permanently disabled and their caregivers.

This is in accordance with the requirements of the Help America Vote Act (Section 303(b)(3)(C)).
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:44 PM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


Oh hay - what does the garbage newspaper Wall Street Journal think about Trump's "rigged election" mouth-noises and tweetstains?

"Where would Mr. Trump possibly get the idea that the system is rigged?...Well, maybe he listened to Bernie Sanders... Or maybe...Elizabeth Warren"

OH AND ALSO:

"President Obama and Eric Holder also regularly push the canard that voter-identification laws are attempts at racially motivated disenfranchisement." (also, they don't mention the court decisions that confirm this also)

So THAT'S why Trump is saying this stuff - the LIBERALS MADE HIM DO IT!!!

Fuck the WSJ and their garbage editorial board.
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:45 PM on October 17, 2016 [34 favorites]


Dukakis and the tank, yt if you are young enough to not remember. Also lawn get off it.

I never understood why this was such an alleged killer of the Dukakis campaign. I was an infant at the time so maybe you had to be there. But he was an Army veteran. He doesn't look that absurd in the tank, really. How did this kill his campaign? Dukakis himself doesn't think it was that important or made that much of a difference. I always thought this was a story made up by pundits and not something that influenced the voters much. If anything, the Willie Horton question and good, old fashioned, American Racism did Dukakis in. /end dukakis derail
posted by dis_integration at 7:46 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


It's obvious that the Trump campaign is trying to use Melania as a way of humanizing Donald and to a certain degree Anderson Cooper is just using Melania for the spectacle and ratings.
Lawrence O'Donnell just threw major shade at Anderson for a "softball interview" where "the interviewer" helped the subject answer the questions.
posted by xyzzy at 7:46 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Dukakis in the tank at Michigan.
Bush, his flight suit open wide.

Trump, when the polls fell.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:46 PM on October 17, 2016 [71 favorites]


snuffleupagus: Yes, i noted that above, after having been told elsewhere. I also noted that it's not an acceptable requirement whether it affects me personally or not.
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:47 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


The raw news footage of Dukakis in the tank was much goofier, the ad gave it a spin that allowed so called Reagan dems to vote for a known quantity, and Dukakis just did not have the charisma to win a national election. Also the USSR was trying to nuke us, so fearmongering. Also sadly Willie Horton, TAxachussettes, silly last name... he had a lot of negatives as a national candidate, that willy greek.
posted by vrakatar at 7:47 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


Broadway for Hillary just did a bit from Berkeley Rep's adaptation of Sinclair Lewis's It Can't Happen Here, a play about a fascist populist who becomes President. I saw it in Berkeley last night (and they were better than Jon Hamm and Jake Gyllenhaal just were). It was a damn painful play, and would have been unbearably painful if it wasn't also an unbearable adaptation, held down by the stock morality play trope of no character development of any kind (and a couple of concentration camp scenes that may have made sense in the context of a book/play written in 1935, but we've seen what the real deal looks like now). Still, I'm not sure they really appreciated how painful it would be even a couple months ago when they put the production together.

The most surreal thing though is how reality already eclipsed the play at points. They had a campaign rally scene that started with some patriotic music, chanting USA, etc... Once you've seen the USA Freedom Kids and the Hindus for Trump lightsaber battle perform at Trump rallies, you can't top that. There's nothing anybody could write or perform that can top the real stuff now.
posted by zachlipton at 7:49 PM on October 17, 2016 [17 favorites]


Question for any HR lawyers, with the fact that there is sexual harassment and assault going on on the Apprentice set, would any whistleblower laws that cover employee/employer relations outweigh any NDAs? Catching my wife up on the day's election activity and talking about the Busey thing and she's an HR executive, but not a lawyer, and she says that the NDAs of a big tech company she previously worked for wouldn't protect against illegal activity.

IANAL, but NDAs are intended to protect confidential business and commercial information/data/IP. No protection against illegal activity sounds right to me.
posted by Existential Dread at 7:50 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Julia Roberts is sounding pretty passionate here.
posted by peacheater at 7:50 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yes, i noted that above, after having been told elsewhere.

Oops, I missed the postscript. Although it's helpful to say why and provide the statutory authority, imo.

I also noted that it's not an acceptable requirement whether it affects me personally or not.

No, it's a transparent attempt to make voting harder for poor people. I'm not suggesting it's acceptable, don't tar me with that brush.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:51 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


The Dukakis and may look more normal and less incongruous than it did in 1988, but sadly, I think that's because we've become so accustomed to the militarization of the culture. It's unremarkable to see people pulling the cloak of military power over themselves in an attempt to look tough and patriotic. back the i read quite differently.
posted by Miko at 7:51 PM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]


The tank alone wasn't enough to do in Dukakis. In addition to the tank, Willie Horton and Boston Harbor, there was also his answer to the debate question on capital punishment.
posted by adamg at 7:51 PM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


Julia Roberts read a Molly Ivins piece at the Broadway for HIllary thing just now - and God, do I wish that she had been around now, as she could have UTTERLY SKEWERED Trump well before now and stopped him in his tracks.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:52 PM on October 17, 2016 [20 favorites]


Everybody: if you didn't watch it live, you want to see Angela Bassett doing Sojourner Truth's "ain't I a woman" speech.
posted by Lexica at 7:53 PM on October 17, 2016 [19 favorites]


Also, Burhanistan is right that between Vietnam, Korea,and WWII there were many more veterans around then (including in the government) and it was much less ok to Be a military fanboy without having served yourself.
posted by Miko at 7:54 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


Anderson Cooper does deserve some flack for that interview. It wasn't quite Fallon ruffling Trump's hair but it was still pretty pathetic. Anderson does a good job at something like the second debate and then turns into the softest softball pitcher ever. Granted going after Melania in an aggressive manner would've played into the "Press is Biased" narrative the Trump campaign is selling but on the other hand he didn't need to be so inept either.
posted by vuron at 7:55 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


Hamilton at Broadway for Hillary:

"Now we all know Hillary isn't a quitter
We watch as her opponent sits and fiddles with his Twitter"

"Number 10...paces...vote"
posted by zachlipton at 7:58 PM on October 17, 2016 [13 favorites]


Also, although I'm not well versed enough in education law to know, I think voters may be able to take advantage of the fail-safe procedures in some of those Federal laws to have their absentee ballots counted provisionally even if they don't satisfy something like MO's notarization requirement, so long as identity can be later confirmed by other mandated means (like motor-voter databases).

Even if their states aren't telling them that for the usual shitty reasons.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:58 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


Is US political culture more "militarized" now than it was in the 80s (or during the Cold War generally)? I thought things were steadily (if slowly) improving on that front since then.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:59 PM on October 17, 2016


Lin-Manuel just found a way to drop the mic without actually physically dropping the mic.
posted by mochapickle at 7:59 PM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


Tim Kaine in the membrane
Tim Kaine in the brain!
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:59 PM on October 17, 2016 [20 favorites]


Billy Crystal you liar! Jews can rap! The Beastie Boys!
posted by Talez at 7:59 PM on October 17, 2016 [19 favorites]


Billy Crystal after Hamilton: "Wow. I am going to see that show."

Guy in audience yells: "Good luck!"

Crystal: "Jews don't rap. Well we do, we wrap fish."
posted by zachlipton at 7:59 PM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


I oppose the death penalty. It's too high a risk if we can get it wrong. It's someone's life.

Oh man this reminds me of the time I flirted with voting for Michael Steele for Senate because he said he'd push to repeal the federal death penalty. I chose not to to send a parting message to Bush. Same as how this time I'm voting for Clinton to send a message to Trump, or else I honestly would consider Egg on this one. I really cannot cannot CANNOT with pro-death penalty Democrats (Ben Cardin and Hillary Clinton, what (PDF) more evidence or convincing do you need to sway you, my god!!! WTF!!!!). I try to be a mature non-single-issue voter but honestly it tears at my soul that we continue to execute people in this country.

Anyways that's my little cri de coeur at the bottom of the thread.
posted by sallybrown at 7:59 PM on October 17, 2016 [29 favorites]


So I guess we have the new Hamilton lyrics for the next mefi election thread.
posted by vuron at 8:02 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


There's a general tradition of going easier on candidates' families because they aren't thought of as choosing to inject themselves into the maelstrom. This year...I would argue that should have gone out the window as soon as Melania Trump started invoking Bill Clinton.
posted by sallybrown at 8:05 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


Over on USA network Goldberg is having a crying fit.
posted by vrakatar at 8:06 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


There are now Facebook events in New York, Chicago, Las Vegas, and Mumbai to "Point and Laugh at Trump Tower" after the election. From the Las Vegas description: "After all votes have been counted and Donald Trump is declared the biggest loser in history, we shall all gather to point, laugh, and rub it in."
posted by J.K. Seazer at 8:07 PM on October 17, 2016 [41 favorites]


Is US political culture more "militarized" now than it was in the 80s (or during the Cold War generally)? I thought things were steadily (if slowly) improving on that front since then.


Oh heavens yes.
posted by Miko at 8:07 PM on October 17, 2016 [12 favorites]


Question for any HR lawyers, with the fact that there is sexual harassment and assault going on on the Apprentice set, would any whistleblower laws that cover employee/employer relations outweigh any NDAs?

Not a lawyer; have paralegal degree. It's my limited and not-lawyer not-legal-advice understanding that a contract that breaks the law is invalid; a contract cannot require someone to break the law, nor to fail to comply with legal demands. While whistleblower protections for reporting crimes are iffy (work in some cases, not in others; paralegals are definitely not protected by the requirements that lawyers have to report breaches of ethics) - I have doubts that someone could be sued for breaking an NDA by reporting a crime.

They might be able to be fired, but if they're no longer directly working for that employer/organization, that's a moot point. There is currently a lot of debate about arbitration clauses; so far, the courts have upheld most of them, allowing that people can sign away their right to sue - but crime is different. Individuals don't technically go after that; the state does. I'm pretty sure you can't sign away your right to testify as a witness in a criminal case; that's beyond the scope of inter-personal contracts.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:10 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


Post 9/11 yes, more militarized, but it depends on what you mean by political culture.
posted by vrakatar at 8:11 PM on October 17, 2016


Cynthia Erivo in a red sequin pantsuit singing "The Battle Hymn of the Republic". I'm done.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:12 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


I, too, was killed by Broadway for Hillary.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:15 PM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


It's interesting to see Democratss no longer surrendering the claim of being patriotic in the face of decades of conservative rhetoric that Democrats were part of a fifth column undermining the fabric of society.

In contrast we have a Republican candidate that has so completely undermined the entire basis of that rhetoric that it's probably going to take several elections worth of ridiculous wrapping themselves in the flag pandering to reverse.
posted by vuron at 8:15 PM on October 17, 2016 [15 favorites]


Also, Burhanistan is right that between Vietnam, Korea,and WWII there were many more veterans around then (including in the government) and it was much less ok to Be a military fanboy without having served yourself.

Speaking as a veteran: I'm totally fine with politicians who haven't served. We're supposed to have civilian leadership. It's great if a candidate has done a term of enlistment or whatever, but I'm happy to see someone has taught in a classroom or done some actual scientific work or whatever, too. Nobody ever checks off all the "nice to see on a resume" boxes.

Being a veteran isn't always all that indicative of greatness, either. Tom Cotton is a veteran and look what a wretched dirtbag that dude is. I can't tell how much impact his service had on his dirtbagness, but given his comments on Gitmo I have to imagine it wasn't a net positive.

I can even respect someone deliberately avoiding service in Vietnam in particular, which was an ugly war we never should've been in, though I far more respect the route Muhammad Ali took than the stuff pulled by the Republican chickenhawk club.

What I absolutely can't respect, though, is when someone hasn't served and then wants to talk tough like Trump does. Trump got deferments for bone spurs or whatever while actively playing several sports in college and then he wants to talk his mad shit about bombing these people and torturing those people? And how our military is a disaster? Not to mention what he said about the Khans, about McCain, and more?

It's not at the top of my list of things I hate about Trump, but god damn is it written in bold letters. And it's another sign that most of his supporters don't care about anything but holding the line of white male supremacy in this country. These are people who allegedly care about service and veterans, but they sure are rallying around someone who spits on all those values.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:15 PM on October 17, 2016 [88 favorites]


This was debunked a few months ago, but bears repeating.

Snopes: The Chagrined-y City
A photograph that appeared to show the residents of Chicago's Trump Tower objecting to his campaign was digitally altered.
They even have a copy of the photo. [Real debunking, Photoshopped picture]
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:15 PM on October 17, 2016




I dunno, I think Anderson did a softball interview but I also think that interview was a nearly impossible needle to thread. Too easy and he gets criticized on the left. Too harsh and he gets criticized on the right. The media is already getting hammered on the right, so I understand being wary of going too hard on her. The thing is, she said plenty of unbelievably dumb shit that we can tear her apart on in the postmortem, so it's ultimately no harm, no foul imo. Billy Bush made him say it? Really? REALLY?
posted by gatorae at 8:18 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


Report from the Green Bay Trump rally... I have many thoughts, but there were a few things that were different about this rally which were striking:

  • Moment of pure yuck: Trump spotted a cute black kid, maybe 3 or 4, at the back of the crowd who was sitting on top of an adult's shoulders. He started cooing about how pretty she is and entreated the adult to carry her through the crowd to the stage. He then lifted her up and smooched her cheek. In fairness she didn't seem to mind. Then a younger white boy was pushed forward and the same thing happened.

  • Trump introduced a new section, which he read off the teleprompters, about prohibiting government employees from lobbying after their service (I think I heard both "lifetime ban" for representing foreign governments and 5-year prohibition for other lobbying activity). It came after a long-winded soliloquy about the Clinton Cabal, crooked Hillary, etc.

  • He tried to make hay about the Patrick Kennedy thing and, to my ears, wanted the crowd to associate the name with the famous political family... but I grew up in Boston and so maybe I just listened for that. Anyway, he's refining the Wikileaks discussion.

  • The wall is back, but Trump stayed away from Paul Ryan and other Republicans (although the crowd chanted "Paul Ryan Sucks" several times. There was no mention about voting R downticket at all, neither positive or negative.

  • Lots of claims about the rigged election including relitigating how Louisiana's delegates were awarded back in the primaries. Professed certainty that invisible, surprise voters ignored by the MSM will put him over the top in Wisconsin and nationwide, just like supposedly happened in many states during the primary, when he was supposedly losing but won in a "landslide."

  • Repeated claims that 96.6 percent of journalists who donated money this election cycle gave to Hillary.

  • Lots of "God is on our side" crap.

    No protesters outside, but about half a dozen people were ejected during Trump's remarks. The crowd was reasonably well behaved, albeit aggressively stupid, with much chanting and knowing yucks, but it seemed very... performative. That said, they all seem to think Trump will win.

  • posted by carmicha at 8:21 PM on October 17, 2016 [21 favorites]


    Is US political culture more "militarized" now than it was in the 80s (or during the Cold War generally)?

    I wasn't in the US for the 80s, but I think the military presence has grown over the past 15 years. Stealth bomber flyovers at college football games. Cadets with rifles and flags at high school games. Camo gear NFL merch. National anthems at charity walks and 5Ks. Every holiday (except Halloween, perhaps) turned into a For The Troops thing. American friends who live abroad comment on how striking it is on their return visits to the US. Recently-discharged vets talk about the disjunction between the symbolic military on public display in big cities and the real people who join up, especially those who return to their small-town roots after active duty and don't feel like they belong anywhere.
    posted by holgate at 8:26 PM on October 17, 2016 [16 favorites]


    Moment of pure yuck: Trump spotted a cute black kid, maybe 3 or 4, at the back of the crowd who was sitting on top of an adult's shoulders. He started cooing about how pretty she is and entreated the adult to carry her through the crowd to the stage. He then lifted her up and smooched her cheek. In fairness she didn't seem to mind. Then a younger white boy was pushed forward and the same thing happened.

    Was that this? It's been discussed quite a bit upthread.
    posted by peacheater at 8:28 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Toomey finally said "at some point I probably will."

    He's such a spineless weasel. Ugh.
    posted by octothorpe at 8:29 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Between actual journalists, carmicha and all the other "observers", and folks just wanting to have fun at an "event" at the Trump rallies that aren't even filling up their venues, I'm starting to wonder just how many people are really going to them to actually GO to them.
    posted by yhbc at 8:31 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Like, he's not over the top mustache twirling like some of these Republican schmucks but he's just blandly terrible. Like mayonnaise on a shit sandwich.

    That sounds a bit like Richard Burr in NC, who annoys the institutional GOP by... not really campaigning much for re-election in a state that's 50-50ish, and hoping that his personal record goes under the radar. He did get W Bush to show up for a fundraiser, so there's that.
    posted by holgate at 8:35 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I, too, was killed by Broadway for Hillary.
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero 14 minutes ago [4 favorites +] [!]


    Fellow Mefites, it is with a heavy heart that I post the unthinkable news
    posted by mwhybark at 8:36 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


    Billy Bush made him say it? Really? REALLY?

    Now that's the bold, decisive leadership we want in a commander-in-chief!
    posted by kirkaracha at 8:37 PM on October 17, 2016 [23 favorites]


    Julia Roberts read a Molly Ivins piece at the Broadway for HIllary thing just now - and God, do I wish that she had been around now,


    Reminds me- Owen Ellickson, of the surreal imaginary Trump scenes on twitter, was deliberately echoing Ann Richards in one bit. He had "Hillary" saying something like: "Donald fucking Trump. Born on third base, fell down, sued the base."
    posted by NorthernLite at 8:40 PM on October 17, 2016 [37 favorites]


    Between actual journalists, carmicha and all the other "observers", and folks just wanting to have fun at an "event" at the Trump rallies that aren't even filling up their venues, I'm starting to wonder just how many people are really going to them to actually GO to them.

    I stuck out, for not wearing Trump regalia or waving a sign or pasting stickers on my clothing or chanting/cheering. Many people fell into all four categories, but hardly anyone fell into none of them.
    posted by carmicha at 8:41 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Dukakis served in the US army in Korea from 55-57. I agree the clip isn't as jarring today; but then it was a really different era.
    posted by humanfont at 8:42 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Also, it turned out that we didn't need our tickets for entry. However, the venue was pretty full.
    posted by carmicha at 8:43 PM on October 17, 2016




    I'm starting to wonder just how many people are really going to them to actually GO to them.

    I think the vast majority of Trump rally attendees are True Believers. I have gone to three, because my job requires it. Even if people go to one out of curiosity, you can bet they never go to a second one. Unless you really like Trump, these things are terribly boring. You are supposed to arrive a couple of hours early (though as crowds are thinning out as the campaign progresses, this is actually less and less necessary.) There is usually a lot of time in-between speakers. The speakers are usually awful, such that Rudy Giulliani is actually a high point in the festivities. The music is pretty bad: The Rolling Stones' slowest songs (Time Is On My Side, You Can't Always Get What You Want,) and whichever Elton John ballad is the worst one. Trump is rarely on-time, so there's a lot of waiting around just for him.

    If you're a real Trump Fan, then it's probably worth it. If you're not, then, eh.

    And most of the people at these things are pretty far over into the deplorables basket. Like, if they strike up a conversation with you, you can bet you'll hear something awful within 30 seconds.

    You'd have to be really bored, or your curiosity would have to be really, really morbid, to go to a Trump rally if you're not a Trump fan, or paid to go.
    posted by Cookiebastard at 8:55 PM on October 17, 2016 [34 favorites]


    Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin says bloodshed may be needed to protect conservatism,
    Bevin suggested that if Democrat Hillary Clinton were elected president, she would set the nation on a dangerous course that might require bloodshed to correct. He told the audience that the “candle” of liberty might go out “on our watch.”
    Because if there's one thing the constitution protects, it's rights during a rebellion...
    posted by Talez at 8:56 PM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Trump's government ethics plan (twitter) seems pretty good on its face (other than his description of it as "drain the swamp" in DC, yeesh). Too bad he spent so much time tonight making up lies about millions of people fraudulently voting and also that his entire campaign is a fascist racist nightmare!
    posted by sallybrown at 8:58 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Also, it turned out that we didn't need our tickets for entry...

    Oh, yeah, don't bother ordering tickets if you're going. They just do it for data collection and to build their email list. Which they sell. I'm already receiving emails for various right-wing garbage at my work email, that has to be from signing up for Trump events.
    posted by Cookiebastard at 8:58 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


    I hope Trump loses. Bigly.
    posted by mazola at 9:00 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]




    Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin says bloodshed may be needed to protect conservatism


    I have first hand knowledge of how big a piece of shit he is from family that lives in Louisville. This should come as no surprise to any that are familiar with that part of the world's current executive branch. *sigh* Folks like him can't come crashing down soon enough, if they ever do.
    posted by RolandOfEld at 9:04 PM on October 17, 2016


    State of Ohio to Investigate Satirical Tweet That Fooled Drudge and Limbaugh (Intercept)

    I would be willing to accept a temporary suspension of the First Amendment solely to force everyone worldwide to use [real] and [fake] tags on everything through Election Day.
    posted by zachlipton at 9:06 PM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Watching Maddow. Bernie has done good.

    (This is a phone killing thread tho)
    posted by schadenfrau at 9:11 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Trump's government ethics plan (twitter) seems pretty good on its face (other than his description of it as "drain the swamp" in DC, yeesh). Too bad he spent so much time tonight making up lies about millions of people fraudulently voting and also that his entire campaign is a fascist racist nightmare!

    It's also fucking hypocritical. His campaign can't even stick to these five.

    Breaking Rule #1 - Michael Glasner (W campaign manager, AIPAC)
    Breaking Rule #2 - Jeff Wood (Jeff Sessions aide, part of Ingram Barge Company)
    Breaking Rule #3 - Mike Catanzaro (Koch lobbyist disguised as a transition team member)
    Breaking Rule #4 - Mike Flynn (Hello, taking money from Russia!)
    Breaking Rule #5 - Paul Manafort (Hello, taking money from Russia!)

    Jesus fucking Christ. He can't even keep his own campaign straight.
    posted by Talez at 9:11 PM on October 17, 2016 [21 favorites]


    We could go into the big blue room for a while. I mean, I'm not gonna, but other people could.
    posted by Justinian at 9:15 PM on October 17, 2016 [12 favorites]


    Still waiting on a debunking of the O'Keefe business.
    posted by stolyarova at 9:15 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


    If you need a quick smile, here's the best photoshop of that stupid homophobic bumper sticker above.
    posted by Existential Dread at 9:15 PM on October 17, 2016 [9 favorites]


    Just FYI, I have had luck walking into a bank with several of my non-bank account having clients and just asking to get something notarized and getting it free. Also sometimes government offices like unemployment offices have someone on staff who is a notary and will help with this kind of thing for free.

    Not saying it's not a problem, because kinda the whole point of getting things notarized is that it's a pain, but offering resources.
    posted by threeturtles at 9:17 PM on October 17, 2016


    Still waiting on a debunking of the O'Keefe business.

    Debunking what? He finds someone shooting their mouth off, finds a tenuous link to the campaign, and stretches it however he can.
    posted by Talez at 9:19 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


    I think this is the best response to the horrible bumper sticker.
    posted by Lexica at 9:20 PM on October 17, 2016 [23 favorites]


    Bernie Looks Ahead
    In an in-depth interview, Sanders offers a candid and passionate assessment of Trump, Clinton, and the future of his movement.
    posted by kirkaracha at 9:24 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


    I recommend calling into Alaska if you're nervous or just want an uplift. Everyone I talked to today was really excited to be getting a call (and that Alaska might be in play!).

    Ooo, someone call Texas. We get lonely down here. Especially us Democrats. I got a political poll call once and it was SO EXCITING. (I personally haven't made any calls because my cell reception is such that I have to sit very still and not tilt my head and maybe I can talk on the phone.)
    posted by threeturtles at 9:30 PM on October 17, 2016 [8 favorites]


    I wasn't in the US for the 80s, but I think the military presence has grown over the past 15 years.
    I haven't noticed an increase in the presence of the actual military so much as I have noticed the militarization of the police.
    posted by xyzzy at 9:32 PM on October 17, 2016 [20 favorites]


    A journalist dude I usually respect on Facebook seems to think that the O'Keefe video indicates "bird-dogging" of Trump rallies was orchestrated with the Clinton campaign. I just can't even. O'Keefe was responsible for those awful Planned Parenthood videos, too, and IMO has blood on his hands as they inspired the PP shooter.
    posted by stolyarova at 9:35 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Its a James O'Keefe video.

    ^^^ debunked
    posted by Yowser at 9:36 PM on October 17, 2016 [20 favorites]


    Its a James O'Keefe video.

    ^^^ debunked


    That's what I said! O'Keefe's track record is so abysmal it felt equivalent to him posting an Alex Jones piece. But he's not unreachable - I've known him to be open-minded and reasonable in the past. I just want somebody to do up a nice Factcheck.org or Politifact page I can link to, like with the Planned Parenthood videos he released.

    I'm also tetchy tonight because my mom sent me a bunch of my high school-era political essays from late 2004 and they're SO BAD. Like, so, so bad and embarrassing. Reeking of Rush Limbaugh. So my patience level for right-wing bullshit is ZERO right now and I probably shouldn't even have replied to his post but I did and now I'm sucked into a pointless hurtful FB argument.

    I should leave Facebook.
    posted by stolyarova at 9:41 PM on October 17, 2016 [6 favorites]


    So glad this Putin-loving POS is going to get his ass kicked.

    @SopanDeb: Trump told Michael Savage earlier that he could see himself meeting with Putin if he wins while Obama is still president: [screenshot of full transcipt]
    posted by chris24 at 9:43 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Just link his wikipedia page. If your friend wants to trust the guy after reading that then there's likely not much you can do. Even if there is something hinky going on there's no way O'keefe can be trusted to get to the proper bottom of it.
    posted by Jalliah at 9:43 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


    He thinks the audio alone is damning enough. I pointed out that it's edited, but he seems to think it's still incredibly damning. I remember exactly the same response to the Planned Parenthood videos in the conservative mediasphere, though, and those turned out to be nothingburgers too.
    posted by stolyarova at 9:46 PM on October 17, 2016


    I don't think the followup got posted here:
    'Democracy Now' Host Amy Goodman Cleared of Dakota Pipeline Charges
    . It's still disturbing that the riot charge was ever perused, but, for the moment, it seems like nothing further is happening. The McLean County Attorney could still file further charges.
    posted by zachlipton at 9:48 PM on October 17, 2016 [36 favorites]


    Now is the time in election season where campaign staffs have to make tough choices about the allocation of resources -- walking away from losing battles to get reinforcements for the winnable ones. In my mind, anyone who's even considering the possibility that James O'Keefe is anything other than 100% full of shit goes in my "not worth the time" bucket. Time spent debunking them would be better spent on literally anything else.
    posted by tonycpsu at 9:50 PM on October 17, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Again it's O'Keefe. If he knows the guys history and is still believing it's something not likely anything you can go to convince him otherwise. It only came out today did it not? If so it may be to soon for 'this is the real story' stuff to be out yet.
    And maybe it is truish. Entirely possible but there was nothing that I read that indicated proof that the guy was in coordination with the campaign. The guy sad he called but who knows if A. That's true B. He was calling someone who held some actual authority in the campaign.
    posted by Jalliah at 9:52 PM on October 17, 2016


    I'm also tetchy tonight because my mom sent me a bunch of my high school-era political essays from late 2004 and they're SO BAD. Like, so, so bad and embarrassing. Reeking of Rush Limbaugh.
    Meh, don't take it too hard. I once wrote a pro social Darwinism essay just to tweak my annoying hippie philosophy professor over his rapture with Singer. I am sure if I read it now I would want to set it on fire even though it was just an intellectual exercise.
    posted by xyzzy at 9:59 PM on October 17, 2016 [5 favorites]


    I shoot a witheringly smug glance in your direction as someone who once wrote an essay for her Catholic school religion class on why actually heaven would suck anyway because it would be boring.

    But then again I also believed in every mealy-mouthed "teach the controversy" "both sides do it" "It's not race, it's class" bullshit ever. I just don't distinctly recall writing any school essays about that stuff.
    posted by Sara C. at 10:02 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


    I'm four minutes into the O'Keefe video. How far do you have to watch to get to the great revelation? The revelations thus far seem to be:
    1. The Clinton campaign is well organized.
    2. Clinton campaign staffers have a generally negative opinion of Trump supporters.
    3. ... dramatic music.
    posted by roll truck roll at 10:04 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


    There was a wingnut kerfuffle on the dumbest wingnut sites about something in the private server emails from 2009 where HRC said "let's talk about" State's response to the Home Office ban on Michael Savage entering the UK for incitement to violence and racial hatred -- a ban that also includes a Phelps, some prominent US white supremacists, a Kahanist, and a couple of US-based Muslim radical preachers. (And for a few years, Snoop Dogg.) This is interpreted as Hillary censoring and tyrannising Savage to this day, which is untrue on its face, given that the current Brexit Tory government still won't allow him to enter the UK.

    Apparently it's a bad thing for countries to ban extremists, unless that country is the US and the "extremists" are "all Muslims".
    posted by holgate at 10:08 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I am just so happy that it seems that this election will not go the way I feared. Either Americans are on the whole much smarter than us here in Toronto, or Trump has less self-control than Rob Ford. Probably a little bit of both, now that I think of it.
    posted by [expletive deleted] at 10:09 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


    New revelation: O'Keefe's friend has a vape pen.
    posted by roll truck roll at 10:09 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


    roll truck roll, I am sending you all my strength to help get you through that awful video. Also here is a cat gif.
    posted by stolyarova at 10:12 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


    I remember a video my brother made me watch in which I would be enlightened about the secret One World Government Conspiracy and there were all these interviews with Some Dude in a Darkened Room and I was all, "Who the fuck is that guy? Why am I supposed to believe what he's saying just cause the words are coming out of his mouth?"

    There is a certain portion of humans who seem to think that someone making a statement on a videotape makes that statement TRUE no matter who is doing the saying or the filming or the editing.
    posted by threeturtles at 10:14 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


    Mod note: One deleted. In the name of grace for all our former selves, let's not dig in on posting old high school essays, especially ones with offensive stuff in them.
    posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:14 PM on October 17, 2016 [17 favorites]


    Thank you, LobsterMitten. Forward, not backwards!
    posted by stolyarova at 10:15 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


    So, this guy I met recently wants to go on a second date, but I am super busy for the next few weeks--also because of all the GOTV shifts I'm signed up for between now and (including) Election Day.

    I basically told him that the only way I could guarantee we could spend any time together before November 9th is if he was willing to join me for canvassing. He... agreed. Looks like we'll be knocking on doors together for a big chunk of the day on Sunday.

    I guess this is one way to recruit volunteers, huh?
    (Who am I become?)
    posted by Superplin at 10:19 PM on October 17, 2016 [128 favorites]




    There is a certain portion of humans who seem to think that someone making a statement on a videotape makes that statement TRUE no matter who is doing the saying or the filming or the editing.

    That portion of humans especially would benefit from a pair of those Clockwork Orange eyelid stretchers and the full series of Ways of Seeing.
    posted by Sys Rq at 10:21 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Steve Schmidt, the guy who brought us Sarah Palin, was absolutely withering in his critique of Republicans on The 11th Hour earlier. He was incensed that Republicans would use Podesta's private emails as campaign fodder and concluded that by doing so the Party was shitting on itself.

    Lawrence O'Donnell had an interesting segment about why Wikileaks can only get stuff from state actors these days. After Assange started publishing things like the medical records of innocent people, there was an internal revolt that dismantled his document acceptance structure. He can no longer protect whistleblowers in any credible way.
    posted by xyzzy at 10:26 PM on October 17, 2016 [20 favorites]


    xyzzy, was that O'Donnell clip today? I'd like to watch it.
    posted by stolyarova at 10:29 PM on October 17, 2016


    It was.
    posted by xyzzy at 10:30 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


    21 more days…
    posted by mazola at 10:37 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


    "Number 10...paces...vote". Oh for the love of god. Just kill me now.

    Er, that's sort of what happened in the song before they changed the lyrics...

    Anyway, political campaigns are full of campy hokum. I consider it a shame that we get polished over the top stuff like "Fight Song" and not the old days of "I like Ike" and banjo tunes.
    posted by zachlipton at 10:45 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]


    Michael Gerson at the Post: Trump spirals into ideological psychosis
    posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:47 PM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]


    great_radio, some people actually like Broadway musicals, you know.

    Then again, I described this to my fiance as all the most famous try-hards onstage doing the most try-hard performances possible in an artistic genre dedicated to being a try-hard, in honor of the biggest try-hard Presidential candidate ever. And I say all of this as yet another gigantic try-hard.

    So maybe you just have to be a Ravenclaw to get into it.
    posted by Sara C. at 10:47 PM on October 17, 2016 [54 favorites]


    I hope Broadway for Hillary raised a bunch of money and I'm sure they are all very well-intentioned people. But somehow an evening of wealthy, attractive performers smugly over-emoting as if the future of the free world depends on them is more than I can take. "Number 10...paces...vote". Oh for the love of god. Just kill me now.

    Broadway for Hillary wasn't meant for you.
    posted by mochapickle at 10:47 PM on October 17, 2016 [23 favorites]


    Who am I become?

    You are become Light, destroyer of Trump.
    posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:50 PM on October 17, 2016 [17 favorites]


    Broadway for Hillary wasn't meant for you.

    It was meant for those of us who weep uncontrollably when the vision of Bernadette Peters singing Sondheim manifests itself on our magic screens.
    posted by vverse23 at 10:51 PM on October 17, 2016 [34 favorites]


    So, one of the issues with notarizing ballots is that "notario fraud" is a thing. It's a big thing. In the US, notary publics just witness oaths and charge (if they charge at all) in the realm of $1 to $3. In Latin America, "notarios" are basically junior lawyers who can do legal paperwork (and can charge junior lawyer fees) -- including immigration paperwork. In the US, they absolutely can't, and immigrants can lose their opportunity to gain legal status if they use one because their docs won't be legit. You can go to jail for ten years for notario publico fraud, and lawyers are almost automatically disbarred for participating in any fashion. It is almost 100% a language issue on the consumer size (and 100% a deliberate fraud issue on the lawyer side). Even in states where Spanish-speaking immigrants aren't common, ethics codes typically forbid lawyers from advertising as "notarios" on pain of disbarring.

    Notarized ballots may be an attempt to disenfranchise Latino voters; the GOP of Texas specifically calls it out as problematic. You should always be suspicious of notary requirements to exercise basic rights because they may well be aimed at depriving Spanish-speaking citizens of their rights.
    posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:53 PM on October 17, 2016 [74 favorites]


    And there are, it should be noted, quite a few Latino voters in the blue parts of Missouri. Although i don't think it's that specific, in this case; i think it's just "throw up more hurdles that are going to disproportionately affect poor, working-class, immigrant, and/or unbanked people".
    posted by adrienneleigh at 11:01 PM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Any chance sequential links to the 2016 election threads could be added to our election wiki by somebody more capable than I?
    posted by Joey Michaels at 11:08 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Donald Trump invited the mother of a Benghazi victim to sit in a prominent position at the next debate.

    Hmm, have you guys heard about this Benghazi thing?
    posted by airish at 11:12 PM on October 17, 2016 [10 favorites]




    I hope Broadway for Hillary raised a bunch of money ... But ... Oh for the love of god. Just kill me now.
    posted by great_radio 29 minutes ago [2 favorites +] [!]


    Fellow Mefites, it is with a heavy heart that I
    posted by mwhybark at 11:20 PM on October 17, 2016 [11 favorites]


    Smith again. Her son would roll over in his grave if he knew she was using him to profit Trump. Ugh.
    posted by Archelaus at 11:26 PM on October 17, 2016 [17 favorites]


    Controversial Republican Mike Roman to run Donald Trump's 'election protection' (Guardian)

    Roman is best known for his role in promoting a video that showed two members of the New Black Panthers – a fringe group that claims descent from the 1960s radicals – standing outside a Philadelphia polling place dressed in uniforms, with one carrying a nightstick. Police are called and the two men leave.
    posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:26 PM on October 17, 2016


    Yeah, vilerat would not be on board with this bullshit.
    posted by Justinian at 11:46 PM on October 17, 2016 [20 favorites]


    Smith again. Her son would roll over in his grave if he knew she was using him to profit Trump.
    QFT. The SA folks were restrained but clearly saddened by her appearance at the Republican National Convention given what they knew of Vilerat's political leanings due to his moderation of the politics forum there. I feel awful for her, but I literally cannot picture HRC promising a grieving family that she would arrest the video maker.
    posted by xyzzy at 11:49 PM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]


    As Justinian suggested during the RNC threads, a conventional root cause analysis on Benghazi would point in a certain direction, and Hillary has steadfastly avoided pointing that way. As a sceptic of root cause analysis, especially in politics, I'm glad of that. I can't begin to know Mrs Smith's grief, but the people who have weaponised it have no real sympathy, especially compared to those SA goons who knew Sean Smith as Vilerat.
    posted by holgate at 12:21 AM on October 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


    No, he was a well known Eve Online player and a mod at the Something Awful forums. Not metafilter so far as I am aware.
    posted by Justinian at 12:29 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    For anyone interested, The New Yorker had an interview with Ambassador Stevens' sister that elaborates on Justinian's RNC post.
    I do not blame Hillary Clinton or Leon Panetta. They were balancing security efforts at embassies and missions around the world. And their staffs were doing their best to provide what they could with the resources they had. The Benghazi Mission was understaffed. We know that now. But, again, Chris knew that. It wasn’t a secret to him. He decided to take the risk to go there. It is not something they did to him. It is something he took on himself.
    posted by xyzzy at 12:35 AM on October 18, 2016 [29 favorites]




    adrienneleigh, that notary requirement is awful.

    Does it say anything about the notary having to be from the US Consulate? You could just go to a local notary. (I've done that in Holland).

    The Arizona overseas ballot process was pretty awesome. I could print it out, fill it in, take a picture and upload it after having made an account (back when I registered).
    posted by Spumante at 12:43 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    I missed, also Bill O'Reilly with Colbert (to hawk his book, for which he gets 30 seconds at the end), part 1 and part 2, in which Colbert asks O'Reilly what the deal is with the "three media organizations" he claims are rigging things and O'Reilly seemingly admits Fox News is one of the three, but also says "there is no top" when it comes to Fox News leadership.

    Also: "Pence is a more traditional politician who I think cringes a little when Trump throws the big bombs." Colbert says Pence "looks like the saddest man in the world" and O'Reilly tries to insist Pence is "having a blast" because he gets to leave Indiana.

    And for the debate, O'Reilly says Trump should "stop whining" and both candidates should stop sniping at each other.
    posted by zachlipton at 1:11 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    "Is 'unbelievable' the only word he knows with more than three syllables?"

    I do not think that word means what he thinks it means.
    posted by Cocodrillo at 1:55 AM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    There is a case that has a chance to make it to the Supreme Court that opposes Democratic gerrymandering in Maryland. I have been following this case for ages and have high hopes that something will come of it.

    Ooooh! I remember that one! Pissed me off, too - the Democrat in question ran on a "give the House to Democrats" platform because the Republican incumbent (who was gerrymandered out of a district she'd been in for at least a decade) was incredibly liberal. Needless to say, the House didn't win and we lost someone who had been representing her constituents well and was a real powerhouse in building cooperation across the aisle.

    I'd be so tickled if the anti-gerrymandering forces won on this one.
    posted by Deoridhe at 1:59 AM on October 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


    Morning Joe report - Jim VandeHei of Politico pushing back hard on Joe's (ridiculous!!) suggestion that all the negative coverage of Trump might make some voters feel bad for him and potentially keep the race close. VandeHei says he's talked to members of the House who've seen their polls drop without recovering since the Billy Bush tape and confirms there's a real concern of losing the House.

    I would love to see some juicy internal polling. *licks chops*
    posted by sallybrown at 3:22 AM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    #electiongoals from Politico (who argue Trump is unlikely to get below 38-40%):
    If Trump did slip below that 38-percent figure, it would be extraordinary in the modern era of presidential politics. With the presence of a strong third-party candidate in 1992, Ross Perot, George H.W. Bush earned about 37.5 percent of the vote. In his historic landslide loss in 1964, Barry Goldwater earned about 38.5 percent. Alf Landon won just 36.5 percent of the vote in a 1936 landslide loss against Franklin Roosevelt.

    But even a Trump collapse wouldn’t challenge John Davis and William Howard Taft, who won between 20 and 30 percent of the vote in 1924 and 1912, respectively, as Progressive Party candidates siphoned significant shares of the vote.
    posted by sallybrown at 3:29 AM on October 18, 2016


    Ok guys. I've just been informed that my husband's boss is all up in arms about the fact that the latest Wikileaks email dump confirmed existence of UFOs/aliens.

    Umm, what?

    And now I've read the email and umm, wow, that's something.
    posted by threeturtles at 3:30 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Snopes link. Podesta is a well-known and longtime believer in aliens/extraterrestrial life. One of his goals is to make public the Area 51 files.
    posted by sallybrown at 3:35 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Yeah, I mean, I didn't mean that the something was the actual existence of aliens giving information to an Apollo astronaut, but more that it's something that some people have some interesting . . .views? I mean...
    “We work with specific [Extraterrestrial Intelligence] ETI from a contiguous universe. They are nonviolent and in complete obedience to God. Our ETI’s connection to zero point energy is obvious in that their purpose is to guide Edgar’s international Quantrek science team to apply their zero point energy research for humanity, to move away from the use of fossil fuels which are so deleterious to our fragile planet.”
    That sure is...something.
    posted by threeturtles at 3:43 AM on October 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


    But tarts is the real reason why I am quoting this. Tarts. It's just a polite form of whores. So anyone accusing Trump of inappropriate touching is a whore. Got it.

    Indeed. But Michael Savage's misogynistic slurs are starting to sound like the stilted dialogue from a Depression era melodrama, spoken by a tuxedo wearing cad in a Mid-Atlantic accent. How old is his audience?

    "Where did these tarts come from?"

    I'm in my 40s. The only time I could imagine saying this is discovering the table in the break room at work piled high with delicious fruit pastries.
    posted by krinklyfig at 4:17 AM on October 18, 2016 [58 favorites]


    "Something's up" with Chris Christie: “The last we know, he was there the day after the tape came out, and he really has not been seen with or for Trump since," Murray said. (possibly avoiding the press due to the Bridgegate trial)

    Meanwhile, Rubio came out hard (autoplay video) against against Trump's allegations of voter fraud in the FL senate debate last night: "This election is not being rigged. We have sixty-seven counties in this state, each of which conduct their own elections. I promise you there is not a sixty-seven county conspiracy to rig this election. There is no evidence behind any of this, so this should not continue to be said."

    And yet Rubio still endorses this person? If Murphy was less of an empty-suit-bankrolled-by-daddy candidate, he would be steamrolling Rubio by now. It's truly a shame the Dems didn't seek out a better candidate for FL senate. (It's a shame we don't have public financing of elections, election spending limits, parity for women and people of color in the pool of people running for office...sigh. Someday.)
    posted by sallybrown at 4:19 AM on October 18, 2016 [35 favorites]


    Podesta is a well-known and longtime believer in aliens/extraterrestrial life.

    The just released Adam Curtis video documentary/essay (subject of current FPP here) has a look at American UFOs and suchlike:
    In the 80s, theories about UFOs were everywhere. There were stories about leaked secret US government documents, which proved the existence of alien lifeforms visiting Earth. It was a big cover-up.

    Curtis suggests that what was really happening here was a double bluff.

    “…the reality was even stranger. The American government was making it all up. They had created a fake conspiracy to mislead.”

    Curtis shows that what these misdirected hicks were really looking at were not UFOs at all, but a new breed of smart American weapons that were being developed as a deterrent to Russia.

    “The government wanted to keep the weapons secret, but their appearance couldn’t always be disguised.”

    He shows that certain individuals were even identified to help spread these rumours. If true, it’s a truly bizarre case of a government creating a red herring to distract the public from some agenda.
    posted by Mister Bijou at 4:25 AM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    Controversial Republican Mike Roman to run Donald Trump's 'election protection'

    Sooo many tentacles to this shitshow that I haven't been able to keep up with everything linked in the thread(s), but seriously, what does "poll watching" (legit or otherwise) actually look like? It's my understanding that nobody can get past a certain point at the polls who's not actually voting, and it's usually several feet from the entrance (right?).

    Is it a matter of being accosted in the parking lot or the sidewalk? Something a "Yeah, fuck off" couldn't take care of when being bothered by some yahoo? Sorry, I'm a white male who's been lucky enough to have voted at pretty sedate polling places all my adult life, so I'm pretty ignorant about others' experience of voter intimidation, and how the Trumpkins expect to be effective at all with this plan.
    posted by Rykey at 4:33 AM on October 18, 2016


    He shows that certain individuals were even identified to help spread these rumours. If true, it’s a truly bizarre case of a government creating a red herring to distract the public from some agenda

    Well sure. Area 51 tests experimental aircraft. Then people who believed in abduction by fairies just changed the story a little and now they believed in abduction by aliens.
    posted by Elementary Penguin at 4:34 AM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Something a "Yeah, fuck off" couldn't take care of when being bothered by some yahoo?

    I mean, to begin with, I am a white, more or less female-presenting person, and I invite you to think on what could quite likely happen if I told one of these people looming over me in the parking lot to fuck off.

    (Which I wouldn't, because I've worked out far more subtle ways to get out of an intimidating situation etc. etc. etc., but you get the idea.)
    posted by kalimac at 4:38 AM on October 18, 2016 [21 favorites]


    "Something's up" with Chris Christie: “The last we know, he was there the day after the tape came out, and he really has not been seen with or for Trump since," Murray said.

    For no particular reason, I picture a silent figure in a business suit walking to the shore of Lake Erie, discarding his jacket and tie, climbing into a rowboat, then slowly paddling towards the foggy horizon and out of sight.

    It's like we're living out a Coen brothers movie.

    I think my brain is broken.
    posted by krinklyfig at 4:38 AM on October 18, 2016 [47 favorites]


    EVERY COmmercial break on local radio this morning (I'm in Palm Beach for a work function this week) has had a Clinton anti Trump ad by a former head of the CIA talking about how dangerous Trump is and how qualified she is.
    posted by tilde at 4:39 AM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Curtis suggests that what was really happening here was a double bluff.

    That's just want they want us to believe that they want us to believe!!!1
    posted by entropicamericana at 4:45 AM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    UFOs, huh? Not what I expected to see when I opened this thread for breakfast-time checking-up. If that's where we're going with this today then fine, sure, why not? Am I misremembering though that a lot of the Area 51 files already became public a few years back? Not that opening the documents would put the conspiracy theorists' minds to rest; they'd just claim that there were other files that were still being concealed.
    posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:46 AM on October 18, 2016


    FYI, the Missouri requirement to notarize absentee ballots (which I agree is akin to a poll tax and should be dropped) is long-standing - I think as far back as the 70's, and certainly back during the days when the legislature was controlled by the Democrats.

    It may well have been aimed at disenfranchisement (it's not like the Democrats of 1970's - 1980's Missouri were akin to modern progressives, though they were a good sight better than the very conservative southern Democrats of the era), but at the least it's not part of the current efforts of disenfranchisement coming from the GOP. (And those efforts have been coming quite strongly from the current Republican-dominated Missouri Legislature, which has been pushing the same sort of disenfranchisement tactics being pushed by other Republicans nationwide - I'm just saying this one isn't their doing).

    I'll have to do more research to find out where this requirement came from.
    posted by Chanther at 4:49 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    > Sooo many tentacles to this shitshow that I haven't been able to keep up with everything linked in the thread(s), but seriously, what does "poll watching" (legit or otherwise) actually look like?

    It's going to depend some on where you are, but you will probably find a guide like this one (PDF) for San Francisco if you google your state+election observer. Basically, they are permitted to see how the sausage is made, from testing of equipment to counting of ballots, and that includes being inside the polling place. Here, they can't talk to voters at all inside or within 100 feet of the polling place (exit polling is permitted) and they can't interfere with poll workers. For instance, they can't ask a poll worker "Hey, why aren't you asking that person with an accent for their ID?" when someone is picking up their ballot, and they can't say anything to a voter inside the polling place, and poll workers can throw them out whenever they break the rules.
    posted by rtha at 4:51 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    New York Times editorial board pulls no punches: Shameful Silence on Donald Trump’s Lies About Vote-Rigging
    Instead of disavowing this absurdity outright, Republican leaders sit by in spineless silence. Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, and Paul Ryan, the speaker of the House, are the two most powerful Republicans in the country and should be willing to put the national interest above their own. Both know full well that there is no “rigging,” and yet between them they have managed one tepid response to Mr. Trump’s outrageous accusations: “Our democracy relies on confidence in election results,” Mr. Ryan’s spokeswoman said, “and the speaker is fully confident the states will carry out this election with integrity.”

    This is like standing back while an arsonist pours gasoline all over your house, then expressing confidence that the fire department will get there in time.

    [snip]

    Mr. Trump may have no qualms about destroying that idea and inflicting harm on the country long after this election is over. How can Mr. McConnell and Mr. Ryan continue to stand by while Mr. Trump delegitimizes the system to which they have dedicated themselves?

    That's easy: They're putting party before country, yet again. They should not be allowed to forget this fact and claim any kind of respect for procedure or precedent when they try to obstruct Hillary Clinton's agenda.

    (I also like the presumption that Trump is spewing this incendiary rhetoric because he's losing.)
    posted by Gelatin at 4:55 AM on October 18, 2016 [61 favorites]


    I invite you to think on what could quite likely happen if I told one of these people looming over me in the parking lot to fuck off.

    Good point, thanks. I guess I'm trying to figure out whether Trump and his people actually want people to go to the polls to "watch" (i.e. disrupt the election), or it's just a tactic to scare people away from showing up at all, or trying to lend weight to the idea that the election's rigged, or...?
    posted by Rykey at 5:01 AM on October 18, 2016


    Trump is in full burn the whole thing down mode because his loss is essentially guaranteed. The Republicans are supporting him because if the deplorables give up and stay home what is looking like an epic loss could get even worse.
    posted by vuron at 5:04 AM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    ALL of the above, it seems, Rykey.
    posted by tilde at 5:05 AM on October 18, 2016


    Rykey, I think they're probably fine with any of those results.
    posted by Too-Ticky at 5:05 AM on October 18, 2016


    Christopher Hooks: "Stakes Is High"
    Are we making too much of the fundraiser? Sure, probably. It’s a thing people got mad about on Twitter, which they tend to do, and here I am writing a lot of words about it, so the joke is on me, really. I’m positive most people who chipped in a few bucks for the campaign did so with pure and admirable intentions, and in a way I admire the impulse.

    But I found the quick embrace of the effort by elite commentators deeply irritating, for reasons it took me a while to unpack. The overriding sense I’ve had this election is that despite Trump, and despite many bad years in Congress, the center-left hasn’t fully grappled with the meaning and consequences of the wave of reaction that has gripped the country since 2009. We don’t live anymore in a country with a ruling party and a loyal opposition. That will remain the case after Trump is defeated. And the stakes are really, really high.

    If you live in California or New York or Maryland or Massachusetts, as some of the fundraiser’s boosters do—like Professor Jeff Jarvis, who tweeted that his donation was “a blow for civilization and peace”—things are going OK for you, on the whole. There might be problems, and your state legislature might be weak. Your state Democratic party might be corrupt. You might be irritated by congressional dysfunction, and concerned about what it means for the country. But the level of basic services provided in your state is generally intact, or at least similar to what it was 15 years ago. It might well be that Trump’s campaign represents a kind of political insanity that is threatening to touch you, in a real way, for the first time.

    This is not true for many Americans. Since 2010, Republican state legislatures — comprised of Republican lawmakers that look very little like what Republican lawmakers used to look like — have inflicted massive harm on the social compact in states where a significant number of Americans live. Sam Brownback shattered Kansas, and Bobby Jindal left a smoking hole in Louisiana. The changes that have taken place in states like Oklahoma and North Carolina since 2008 have been so sweeping as to be revolutionary in nature. The “normal” flow of partisan politics in many of these places, and the minimal social safety net it used to support, has been broken in ways that Americans living in more stable states might have trouble even believing.
    [...]
    That’s what politics is — the way we distribute pain. It’s not a sport or a fraternity or a game. It’s how we determine who gets medication and who dies young, who learns in a class of twenty kids and who learns in a class of thirty, whose school has a counselor that’s trained to look for signs of sexual abuse and who doesn’t.
    posted by Rustic Etruscan at 5:09 AM on October 18, 2016 [83 favorites]


    As Justinian suggested during the RNC threads, a conventional root cause analysis on Benghazi would point in a certain direction

    Just a PSA: internal comment links in these threads haven't worked in a LONG time; you're better off quoting the comment if you want people to be able to read it
    posted by schadenfrau at 5:19 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    schadenfrau, that's not universal. They're working for me.
    (And I don't know what PSA means but that may be on me, not sure. It's hard to search for.)
    posted by Too-Ticky at 5:21 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Public Service Announcement.
    posted by seyirci at 5:23 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    If you can justify choosing not to help someone who has been firebombed because of their politics, then you can justify firebombing someone because of their politics.
    posted by OnceUponATime at 5:26 AM on October 18, 2016


    > If you can justify not helping someone who has been firebombed because of their politics, then you can justify firebombing someone because of their politics.

    What? No.

    Trust me, I can not send them any of my money for whatever reason I like, including one like "I don't want to contribute to the ongoing bullshit they have caused, in any way," without thinking that the other option is firebombing them. Jesus.
    posted by rtha at 5:31 AM on October 18, 2016 [69 favorites]


    I can justify not helping someone who has been firebombed attack other people because of their politics without in any way justifying their being firebombed, thank you very much.
    posted by peacheater at 5:31 AM on October 18, 2016 [15 favorites]


    If you want to make a point or argument, it's helpful to be straightforward and specific rather than resorting to cryptic generalities, especially when you're referencing an argument that occurred hours ago and upthread (that's my PSA for this morning).
    posted by sallybrown at 5:41 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    If you want to make a point or argument, it's helpful to be straightforward and specific rather than resorting to cryptic generalities, especially when you're referencing an argument that occurred hours ago and upthread (that's my PSA for this morning).

    We have no idea what you are talking about with this cryptic admonition.
    posted by thelonius at 5:49 AM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Mod note: A couple of comments deleted; let's agree to disagree civilly and avoid personal attacks, please. Thanks.
    posted by taz (staff) at 5:50 AM on October 18, 2016


    I am justifying not donating to the NCGOP because I'm broke which I guess makes me a fascist too now
    posted by beerperson at 6:04 AM on October 18, 2016 [13 favorites]


    The donate/don't donate argument has been my least favorite derail in all of the tens of thousands of comments I've read in all of these posts. I guess I had gotten used to the near unanimity of opinion here during this craziest of elections. It was comforting. This derail has been like watching my normally-in-agreement parents fight.
    posted by thebrokedown at 6:08 AM on October 18, 2016 [26 favorites]


    More from North Carolina: The same weekend the Orange County NC GOP office was vandalized and firebombed, the Orange County NC Democratic Party office was also vandalized with "Death to Capitalism" (but not set on fire). You'll have to scroll down to the "Democrats, Too" sub-headline. (It's the only news item I've found on it, please don't use the story lead as grounds to re-litigate the ethics of donating to your opponent's causes.)

    The GOP office is in Hillsboro, which is both the county seat and historically significant for being the original location of the state capitol. The Dem office is in Carrboro, about a dozen miles away in the county's bigger contiguous urban area since it adjoins Chapel Hill, home of the University of North Carolina, and also geographically closer to the center of the Triangle megalopolis.
    posted by ardgedee at 6:09 AM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    The same weekend the Orange County NC GOP office was vandalized and firebombed, the Orange County NC Democratic Party office was also vandalized with "Death to Capitalism"

    Ah, so it's teenage anarchist shitheads. That explains a lot.
    posted by zombieflanders at 6:11 AM on October 18, 2016 [25 favorites]


    The NCGOP fucking sucks. But also optics are a thing and there's a credible argument to be made that donating undermines their power and will make them less able to implement their agenda by helping to ensure NC goes blue. But also they're scum and I hate them, so it never even crossed my mind to donate. I think people on both sides of this particular debate have valid points and I don't know why it got so nasty.
    posted by showbiz_liz at 6:12 AM on October 18, 2016 [32 favorites]


    The GOP office is in Hillsboro, which is both the county seat and historically significant for being the original location of the state capitol.

    The answer to "original capital" is pretty complicated (lots of places served, including Hillsboro), but trust me that as a resident of New Bern for years, I am grumbling at you.
    posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:14 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I've been watching HRC's messaging about the importance of women coming out to vote and thinking about it alongside the comments here about women who are too scared to admit they're voting for her. It makes me wonder if the campaign employs domestic abuse crisis advisors to help subtly word HRC's messages to reach out to these women and it makes me unspeakably sad.
    posted by _Mona_ at 6:17 AM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Ivanka gave her exclusive interview to Fast Company (nothing notable, mostly generic BS defenses of her father). Not clear if this was the "exclusive interview" Forbes was talking about, but seems like it.

    Why would she choose Fast Company for this? Perhaps the only interviewer who would agree to her terms for coverage? An attempt to keep her brand looking strong?
    posted by sallybrown at 6:19 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    At least around here, many bank branches have at least one employee who's a notary and who will notarize things for customers for free (and yes, I realize not everybody has a bank account).

    All the banks that I've worked at have specified that notary services are only for bank related business. If a BoA customer needs something notarized relating to their BoA investment account, for example, no problem. If it's for an account at another bank or not related to your relationship with BoA, policy is to politely refuse. Since the bank likely paid for their employee to become a notary and their notarizing stuff for you while on the clock in a bank branch, the bank might be liable if they screwed something up.

    That said, I pretty much always did it anyway and a lot of others I worked with did too, but we did occasionally get yelled at about it.
    posted by VTX at 6:19 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Speaking as someone who wades, if not swims, in the UFO Fringe pretty frequently, those 'leaked' UFO emails are also so much saucer-shaped nothing burgers. A lot of those emails are pretty much form letters that have been sent by a single researchers to anyone they think will listen. The Blink-182 stuff is interesting, but only because it names a General who may or may not be on board with Disclosure.
    posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:22 AM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Just received the email that my CO ballot has left the county board of elections and is in the hands of the US Post Office (and on its way to me)! It's so nice to live in a state that's a) had a recent Democratic legislature majority to enact automatic statewide mail-in ballots for everyone and b) actually has the ability to roll these things out in the way you expect this kind of thing to work in 2016. Once I fill it out and send it back I'll get another email receipt from the county saying they've received it for counting. Can't wait.
    posted by deludingmyself at 6:23 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    (And I don't know what PSA means but that may be on me, not sure. It's hard to search for.)
    Public Service Announcement outside of the prostate context
    posted by Golem XIV at 6:32 AM on October 18, 2016


    Fuck all of the others, this is the best photoshop of that damned hateful bumper sticker.
    posted by Blasdelb at 6:33 AM on October 18, 2016 [50 favorites]


    Hillsboro
    Hillsborough is the name of the town
    posted by thelonius at 6:36 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    If I wanted to put my money towards voter accessibility in NC, to whom would I donate?
    posted by pxe2000 at 6:37 AM on October 18, 2016


    That's actually also gone back and forth over the years, but you're right, Hillsborough is the current spelling.
    posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:38 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I'm also tetchy tonight because my mom sent me a bunch of my high school-era political essays from late 2004 and they're SO BAD. Like, so, so bad and embarrassing. Reeking of Rush Limbaugh.

    Meh, don't take it too hard. I once wrote a pro social Darwinism essay just to tweak my annoying hippie philosophy professor over his rapture with Singer. I am sure if I read it now I would want to set it on fire even though it was just an intellectual exercise.


    That's nothing. I decided to major in philosophy because of my deep respect for Ayn Rand. The first time I read Anthem I wept.

    So yeah.

    Everybody's a dumbass when they're a kid. I think you really grow up when you stop being embarrassed by your younger self, and you start feeling compassion for the normal screwed up person that you were.
    posted by leotrotsky at 6:39 AM on October 18, 2016 [25 favorites]


    The Missouri Secretary of State website says that notary requirement for absentee ballots does not apply to "overseas voters, those on active military duty or members of their immediate family living with them or voters who are permanently disabled and their caregivers." It links to this portal for Military and Overseas Voters.
    posted by aabbbiee at 6:40 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Howard Stern, despite being an avid Clinton supporter, will not be releasing all his Trump interviews. "It would be a betrayal."
    posted by chris24 at 6:41 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Why would she choose Fast Company for this? Perhaps the only interviewer who would agree to her terms for coverage? An attempt to keep her brand looking strong?

    The article's author used to work for the Daily News and is now Digital ed at FC. It's unlikely she'd have agreed not to cover topics unless they she felt they weren't appropriate for the article.

    FastCompany targets educated, affluent, influential entrepreneurs/business people and most of their readers are under 50 and hold professional degrees. In theory, that audience should be core Trump supporters. Ivanka is probably also concerned about the health of the Trump brand after the election.
    posted by zarq at 6:41 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Donald Trump Is Running Some Really Insecure Email Servers
    In what might be one of the more delicious cases of irony to ever grace a presidential election, a researcher has found that a number of email servers linked to Donald Trump’s hotel and others businesses are running horribly out of date software which receive no security patches, and are lacking other precautions for keeping hackers out.
    Tsk tsk tsk.
    posted by valetta at 6:42 AM on October 18, 2016 [24 favorites]


    Hillsboro is the brightest working lighthouse in the world.
    posted by tilde at 6:42 AM on October 18, 2016


    No, no it isn't.

    Yeah, to imply that someone deserves your comfort as they actively drape themselves in symbols of hate is gross.
    posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:43 AM on October 18, 2016 [17 favorites]


    ...are lacking other precautions for keeping hackers out.
    Disinterest is a pretty strong motivator.
    posted by tilde at 6:43 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    That’s what politics is — the way we distribute pain. It’s not a sport or a fraternity or a game.

    Just a note that the NC GOP fundraiser was initiated by Zeynep Tufekci, a Turkish immigrant living in North Carolina. Zeynep has been very thoughtful about the rise of fascism in Turkey and elsewhere, and the way political violence is used to justify fascist movements.

    I understand disagreement on tactics. But I think it's inaccurate to portray this as some kind of game played by outsiders who don't understand the stakes.
    posted by john hadron collider at 6:47 AM on October 18, 2016 [55 favorites]


    Yeah, to imply that someone deserves your comfort as they actively drape themselves in symbols of hate is gross.

    I think the idea is that the Confederate guy feels bad about what he's done--look at his slumped body and downturned head. I don't take it as saying that LGBT people owe unconditional comfort to people who are actively persecuting them, but hoping to see repentance, forgiveness, and reconciliation. That's going to take major change on the part of Confederate Man, but we should hope that it will happen.
    posted by EarBucket at 7:00 AM on October 18, 2016 [16 favorites]


    I mean I guess I CAN if you want me to? I can try? I'm up for it I'm feeling pretty spry

    Yeah, I mean, plenty of people justify violence against those with toxic political ideas all the time. Like pretty much everyone agreed it was justified against the Nazis in WWII, or against people fighting for slavery in the US civil war. I'm pacificist-leaning but not a pacifist. I think violence really is sometimes justified, to be clear... but rarely.

    I think this rhetoric about how we can't help people whose offices have been burned because they are bad guys sounds exactly like the rhetoric about how we have to go to war with people who are bad guys. I'm not sure what the moral difference is between setting the fire, and just watching it burn while refusing to help. That seems like a pretty thin line to me.

    And again, sometimes either one is jusitified. Sometimes violence is justified. Sometimes war is justified. But it's scary to me because these are our fellow Americans. I am fearful that we are on the brink of domestic violence on a level we haven't seen since the civil war. And it seems like "my side" is participating too. I feel pretty alienated by that. I don't want violence, no matter how much I believe we're the good guys. I don't think we're at that point right now.

    Someone in an earlier thread said "No one ever wins a war. One side just loses a litle less." Usually the most vulnerable lose the most. I want this escalating violence to end. I want to condemn it just as loudly when it comes from my side as from "theirs."

    Nobody has to donate, if they don't want to or can't afford to. If you wouldn't donate to any other organization that suffered this, you don't have to feel obligated to donate to the NCGOP. But if you are normally moved to help when this kind of thing happens, and the only reason you're holding back in this case is because they are Republicans, you should think about what else that same logic might justify, about the implications of those arguments.

    Same if you are arguing that other Democrats shouldn't donate ... publically discouraging other people from helping (which costs you nothing) is really hard to justify... except with the same arguments which are also used to jusify carrying out these actions.
    posted by OnceUponATime at 7:00 AM on October 18, 2016 [17 favorites]


    the latest Wikileaks email dump confirmed existence of UFOs/aliens.

    Not to speak ill of the recently deceased, but if you're talking about the emails to Podesta from former Apollo astronaut Edgar Mitchell, he was a bit of a crackpot. I recall he kept some items from his moon mission and tried to auction them off, which NASA clamped down on; but more to the point he was active in various UFO and New Agey movements.
    posted by aught at 7:02 AM on October 18, 2016




    The best wall: Tecate Beer Commercial
    posted by valetta at 7:05 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Hillsboro(ugh) and first state capitol: Bulgaroktonos is correct but trying to look things up and correct them on a phone in a thread like this is annoying and time consuming. Sorry.
    posted by ardgedee at 7:06 AM on October 18, 2016


    Re, trumps insecure servers: even as we speak, this story is spreading, and the script kiddies will soon come out to play. For the lulz.

    Re: transadvocates huggy bumper sticker, it is wrong on so many levels, beautifully explained in Odinsdream, comment a few above this one. Sorry, thread too much for mobile to quote or link.

    A demand of emotional labor is never a fair demand.
    posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:06 AM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    He shows that certain individuals were even identified to help spread these rumours. If true, it’s a truly bizarre case of a government creating a red herring to distract the public from some agenda.

    What is...the invasion of Iraq?
    posted by kirkaracha at 7:07 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Lexica: I think this is the best response to the horrible bumper sticker.

    That Tweet is from "mefi's own" digaman.
    posted by Surely This at 7:08 AM on October 18, 2016 [11 favorites]


    WaPo: Trump spirals into ideological psychosis

    "(4) It is a further indication (as if we needed it) that Trump has no commitment to the American political system. He is perfectly willing to delegitimize democratic institutions as a campaign tactic, squandering a civic inheritance he does not value. Even before his current troubles, he said that an electoral loss would be prima facie evidence of fraud and encouraged supporters to monitor majority-black polling stations in Pennsylvania. Now he is entering uncharted territory. By preemptively questioning the legitimacy of his forthcoming shellacking, Trump is stepping outside the four corners of the constitutional order, on the model of autocratic strongmen he has publicly admired."
    posted by chris24 at 7:09 AM on October 18, 2016 [16 favorites]


    A Prediction for the SCOTUS and the next GOP trifecta: When there is a GOP trifecta in Washington and a liberal leaning Supreme Court, the Supreme Court will see an increased number of justices equal to the difference between liberal and reactionary justices plus one.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 7:15 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Egg McMuffin on CNN!
    posted by Talez at 7:19 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]




    Trump’s path to an electoral college victory isn’t narrow. It’s non-existent.
    No, Trump’s supporters have not turned on him. But he trails badly with only a few weeks to go until Nov. 8, and he must broaden his appeal to have any chance of winning. That is now impossible.
    posted by kirkaracha at 7:21 AM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Howard Stern, despite being an avid Clinton supporter, will not be releasing all his Trump interviews. "It would be a betrayal."
    posted by chris24 at 6:41 AM on October 18 [3 favorites +] [!]


    Howard Stern is sentient pond scum that has a vested interest in keeping women dehumanized.
    posted by Dressed to Kill at 7:22 AM on October 18, 2016 [41 favorites]


    So maybe you just have to be a Ravenclaw to get into it.

    As a Hufflepuff, I can tell you for sure this is not the case.
    posted by nonasuch at 7:22 AM on October 18, 2016 [10 favorites]


    I think the way to soothe the conflict over the NCGOP bombing recovery donations is to have an even bigger and more successful fundraiser for worthy causes in NC, like Moral Mondays or other progressive or anti-poverty issues. Or money for other victims of bombings (churches?) and related hate crimes. If you know someone progressive in NC with a lot of twitter followers, give them a nudge and I'll chip in ten bucks. (Have never done a kickstarter and don't have local cred.)
    posted by puddledork at 7:22 AM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    Very well, donations to rebuild the firebombed office for some, miniature American flags for others.

    </derail>
    posted by Mayor West at 7:23 AM on October 18, 2016 [21 favorites]


    Edgar Mitchell did stuff. For the record.
    posted by petebest at 7:23 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    I never understood why this was such an alleged killer of the Dukakis campaign.

    The vagaries of the public and the media's view of candidates are... wacky.

    I mean, Howard Dean's campaign ended because his voice cracked at a rally. His. Voice. Cracked. Put that in the context of this year's campaign outrages.
    posted by aught at 7:29 AM on October 18, 2016 [41 favorites]


    I never understood why this was such an alleged killer of the Dukakis campaign.


    It didn't help, but there's no evidence that this one image did much. In my memory, the Willie Horton ads, a kind of detached debate performance, and a bizarre long vacation right after the convention did much more damage. That and Bush's ability to just call Dukakis a "liberal" as an insult with no real response from Dukakis. He was one passive candidate, man.
    posted by argybarg at 7:34 AM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    It's not what you do, it's how good your opponent is at humiliating you for it.
    posted by ardgedee at 7:34 AM on October 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


    Interesting article in The Conversation about why Greens are so irrelevant in the US and so effective in Germany.
    posted by haiku warrior at 7:39 AM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Sam Wang: "I estimate that Democrats must win the national popular vote by 8% to have any chance at taking control of the House."
    posted by T.D. Strange at 7:40 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    > In my memory, the Willie Horton ads, a kind of detached debate performance, and a bizarre long vacation right after the convention did much more damage. That and Bush's ability to just call Dukakis a "liberal" as an insult with no real response from Dukakis. He was one passive candidate, man.

    True, but (in my memory) the media was enthusiastically taking every opportunity to trash him. There was a weird animus against him. (I was living in Astoria at the time, which was I believe the most heavily Greek community in the US, and of course was wildly pro-Dukakis -- I saw his picture in just about every store front. ΔΟΥΚΑΚΗΣ!)
    posted by languagehat at 7:41 AM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Edgar Mitchell did stuff. For the record.

    Of course he did. (That wikipedia page you link to also mentions he tried to send telepathic messages to fellow ESP enthusiasts back on Earth as well.) I'm just saying, to the folks upthread confused about the UFO "evidence" in the email dump, that it's not really UFO proof of any sort, just that random crackpottery woowoo can be found among public officials sometimes too.

    Also, speaking as someone then in his teens, the 70s were weird. I mean, President Carter was UFO-curious as well. As much as I respect much of what Carter has done or tried to do, I roll my eyes at that too.
    posted by aught at 7:43 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Good news from Michigan: Michigan GOP Official Ousted Over Refusal To Back Donald Trump:
    The chair of the Michigan Republican party removed the party's grassroots vice chair, Wendy Day, on Monday over Day's decision not to back Donald Trump's presidential bid, according to the Detroit Free Press.

    "Upon seeking advice from our legal counsel, and recognizing that our Grassroots Vice Chair is unable to fulfill the duties of her office, I am declaring the position ... vacant," Michigan GOP Chair Ronna Romney McDaniel wrote in an email to state GOP committee members, according to the Detroit Free Press.
    This will surely help GOTV for the GOP.
    posted by palindromic at 7:44 AM on October 18, 2016 [38 favorites]


    Yeah, Dukakis was the vanilla pudding of candidates. He made Bush One look dynamic in comparison. So, him in a tank was laughable, and boy did people laugh.
    posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:45 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Whatever font Harper's Bazaar is using at the beginning of that article should be taken out behind the wood shed and put out of its misery. Jesus. My eyes.
    posted by soren_lorensen at 7:45 AM on October 18, 2016 [28 favorites]


    Howard Dean's campaign ended because his voice cracked at a rally.

    Wasn't Dean's campaign already starting to show signs of stress at that point? The media played up the scream, but he'd underperformed expectations pretty significantly.

    I feel like we build simplified explanatations for narratives that are a lot more complicated. Dean didn't fail because of his rought, cracking voice, he faild because he hadn't really built up the steam to succeed. Dukakis didn't lose because of the goofy tank picture, he lost because there was a whole satellite of attack vectors deployed against him. And this year, Trump didn't lose the faith of his own party because of the video with Billy Bush --- his campaign had been losing wheels and bleeding for weeks, and the scandal was just an opportunity for a lot of disenchanted erstwhile supporters to cut and run.
    posted by jackbishop at 7:45 AM on October 18, 2016 [43 favorites]


    Any talk about the existence of extraterrestrial life beyond the SETI project gets a large side-eye from me.
    posted by Annika Cicada at 7:46 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Arizona may get interesting. There's a proposal to legalize marijuana there, which always increases voter turnout, and while Arizona isn't a swing state, it has only been going Republican by 4 points or so for the past three elections. Higher Democratic turnout from legalizing pot coupled with higher Latinx turnout from Trump's racism could push things a lot closer even if it doesn't give Clinton a win.

    Also, the anti-marijuana people are stirring up some trouble. Discount Tire is an AZ based company and they just donated $1 million to the keep marijuana a felony movement, which has stirred up a lot of pro-marijuana activists.

    It has never been a matter of convincing the other people to vote for you, but rather a matter of getting your own base out, and there's a lot in Arizona pushing the Democratic base to the polls this time.

    Combined with the Supreme Court obstructionism that McCain just brought back to the nation's attention I'm feeling much more optimistic than I have. Of course, the Democrats do have an uncanny ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, but I'm still feeling optimistic. Absent a live girl or a dead boy, I think Clinton has it in the bag and the only real question is whether or not Trump has pissed off enough voters to hand the Senate to Clinton as well, the House, regrettably is almost certainly not in play.
    posted by sotonohito at 7:47 AM on October 18, 2016 [16 favorites]


    Woah, looks like DTC stores had pro-Arpaio signs up too? What a weird move for any retailer, whatever the ownership's politics.
    posted by snuffleupagus at 7:57 AM on October 18, 2016 [10 favorites]


    I downloaded the HFA app last night (I will probably wind up uninstalling it--I don't do social media so all the "share this!" stuff is wasted on me) and Google Play helpfully recommended that I might also be interested in the Trump app! Thanks, Google! (It also regularly puts right wingnutty news sources in my Google Now, no matter how many times I tell it I'm not interested in those sources--it just kind of goes, "Okay then, no more Brietbart.com or Newsmax.... are you interested in GHOST OF VINCE FOSTER RISES UP TO ACCUSE CROOKED HILLARY from truthbombs.com?")

    But now I'm super curious. If I download the Trump app, is it going to scrape all my data and harass me with cash4gold and survival meals spam forevermore?
    posted by soren_lorensen at 7:58 AM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    A lot of what Edgar Mitchell had to say may come off as "crackpottery" now, but this quote (from the wiki page) seems pretty apropos today:

    "From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch'."
    posted by TwoToneRow at 8:04 AM on October 18, 2016 [45 favorites]


    carmicha: Report from the Green Bay Trump rally...

    No protesters outside, but about half a dozen people were ejected during Trump's remarks. The crowd was reasonably well behaved, albeit aggressively stupid, with much chanting and knowing yucks, but it seemed very... performative. That said, they all seem to think Trump will win.


    Trump Stokes Wisconsin Rally Goers With Voter Fraud Allegations (NPR, October 18, 2016)
    Most political experts agree that widespread voter fraud does not occur in the U.S. At Monday night's rally in Green Bay, Donald Trump supporters said they didn't foresee violence if he loses.
    Audio only for now, the transcript will be up later today. Key things that I heard: some guy selling "Hilary is the devil" posters and other Trumpernalia said there won't be violence because "people are lazy," and rallies are a lot easier than armed resistance, and a Trumpaloompa said if Donald loses there should be investigation because "it's rigged," but when asked if there should be an investigation if he won, she laughed and said no. I'm not sure if she laughed at the thought of Donnie winning, or of the idea of investigating his win.
    posted by filthy light thief at 8:05 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    "Upon seeking advice from our legal counsel, and recognizing that our Grassroots Vice Chair is unable to fulfill the duties of her office, I am declaring the position ... vacant"

    ...Pray I do not vacate it further.
    posted by kaibutsu at 8:06 AM on October 18, 2016 [29 favorites]


    If I download the Trump app, is it going to scrape all my data and harass me with cash4gold and survival meals spam forevermore?

    Yes.
    posted by chris24 at 8:08 AM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    Whatever font Harper's Bazaar is using at the beginning of that article should be taken out behind the wood shed and put out of its misery. Jesus. My eyes.

    It's Didot, which is a lovely typeface for headlines but not a good choice for large amounts of copy.
    posted by Metroid Baby at 8:08 AM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    A Prediction for the SCOTUS and the next GOP trifecta: When there is a GOP trifecta in Washington and a liberal leaning Supreme Court, the Supreme Court will see an increased number of justices equal to the difference between liberal and reactionary justices plus one.

    1. I think the GOP's current insanity will begin to ebb starting with Trumps defeat (with a likely flare-up in 2018). Demographics is destiny, particularly with a Supreme Court to slap down gerrymandering.

    2. I suspect if friggin New Deal Franklin Roosevelt couldn't get away with it, the current flock of clowns won't either.

    3. Given their primaries are the political equivalent of a Fisherian Runaway, the GOP isn't going be be electing a president anytime soon, I suspect.
    posted by leotrotsky at 8:10 AM on October 18, 2016 [12 favorites]


    The local sports radio show that I listen to almost daily is followed immediately afterwards by Rush, and the commercial breaks sometimes feature "highlights" of Rush. Just now they ran a 45second spot of Rush going full on unskewing, saying how all these polling companies are in league with "the mainstream media", and suggesting that polls within 4%, which he called the margin of error, are untrustworthy and could mean either Hilary +4, or Trump +4.

    No one tell him the RCP average is Clinton +6.9 in the 4 way. Shhhhh
    posted by T.D. Strange at 8:11 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    It's Didot, which is a lovely typeface for headlines but not a good choice for large amounts of copy.

    I think it's just that the narrow bits are not particularly web-friendly, they basically disappear.

    Didot is so pretty, though.
    posted by leotrotsky at 8:13 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    While FiveThirtyEight's track record on percent probability is not very good, I'm still amused to look at its current state-by-state status.

    States can be grouped into three sets: Those where Clinton is more likely to win them than she is to lose the presidency, those where Trump is more likely to win them than he is to lose the presidency, and Utah.

    In the "Trump more likely to win this state than to lose the presidency", we have ID, WY, ND, OK, AR, LA, TN, MS, AL, TN, KY, WV, and 3/5 of Nebraska's votes.

    Due to Egg, both Clinton and Trump are actually less likely to take Utah than they are to lose the presidency.

    But every other state, and this includes MT, SD, KS, TX, MO, IN, GA, and SC: Clinton is more likely to win the state than she is to lose than presidency. (She's not very likely to do either).
    posted by nat at 8:13 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Somewhere in here, I think just within the last few days but for sure in either this or the last megathread, there was a link to a blog post positing that the makeup of the Supreme Court is not as crucial to the pro-life cause as its supporters believe. Would anyone be able to point me to that again?
    posted by HotToddy at 8:14 AM on October 18, 2016


    HotToddy, here
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:21 AM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Cher has been a gem this election. (And I love the reverse capitalization for trump.) Her feed is priceless.

    @cher
    MELANIA SAID HER HUSBAND (trump)“WAS LED ON..EGGED ON BY BILLY BUSH“‼️HOW CAN trump STAND UP 2PUTIN,IF HE COULDNT STAND UP 2BILLY BUSH😳
    posted by chris24 at 8:21 AM on October 18, 2016 [50 favorites]


    CHT, that's the one. Thank you!
    posted by HotToddy at 8:22 AM on October 18, 2016


    Any talk about the existence of extraterrestrial life beyond the SETI project gets a large side-eye from me.

    Can confirm. The talk seems just as implausible when observed using smaller front-facing eyes.
    posted by sebastienbailard at 8:24 AM on October 18, 2016 [24 favorites]


    I was watching an interview with Alex Salmond, who was the leader of the Scottish Nationalist Party at the time of the independence referendum in 2014. The polls were heavily against independence at first, but crept up during the campaign. Salmond said how unhappy he was when they finally got above 50 percent around ten days before the vote - too soon, he said, because the other side would have time to react. Which is what happened.

    Now, I doubt very much that any miracle of sanity and fraternity will wash across the Republican party, let alone invoke a Damascene conversion in St Donald of Trump, but at the very least I remain wary about optimism until after the third debate. Clinton is Clinton and will do Clinton as Clinton, but Donald still has that one slim chance to come across as something other than Donald.

    Egg will probably be elected Pope first, mind.
    posted by Devonian at 8:25 AM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Egg Benedict?
    posted by cmfletcher at 8:37 AM on October 18, 2016 [131 favorites]


    The ever masterful Jon Lovett of Keepin' it 1600 fame, after listening to one of the many recent Trump-Supporter screeds said it best:

    "Well, in the end, he did pivot..."
    posted by eclectist at 8:40 AM on October 18, 2016 [13 favorites]


    but Donald still has that one slim chance to come across as something other than Donald.

    What are you basing this on, he has been Hard Donalding this whole time
    posted by prize bull octorok at 8:44 AM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Very dour and deadpan German player of American football being interviewed on the BBC World News just now, in a report about how only 5% of Germans want Trump to become the US President: Except for World War Three, I think Trump would be very bad for the world economy.
    posted by XMLicious at 8:45 AM on October 18, 2016 [12 favorites]


    Variety: Lin-Manuel Miranda remixes Hamilton with Hillary Clinton lyrics at Broadway benefit

    A recap of the Broadway/Stronger Together fundraiser.
    posted by ZeusHumms at 8:48 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Leave it to the Germans to find a silver lining in any situation.
    posted by zarq at 8:48 AM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    I didn't say it was a chance he would or could take...

    This is what I expect and hope to happen. But that iota of unease remains
    posted by Devonian at 8:50 AM on October 18, 2016


    Just now they ran a 45second spot of Rush going full on unskewing, saying how all these polling companies are in league with "the mainstream media", and suggesting that polls within 4%, which he called the margin of error, are untrustworthy and could mean either Hilary +4, or Trump +4.

    Wouldn't that be an 8% margin of error?
    posted by showbiz_liz at 8:51 AM on October 18, 2016 [10 favorites]


    Michelle Obama is going to be campaigning in Phoenix on Thursday, at an Early Voting Rally. Repeat: MICHELLE OBAMA WILL BE RIGHT HERE, IN THIS TANDOORI IN THE DESERT, IN TWO SLEEPS!

    I RSVP'd, but am a little worried about the timing. I have a show Thursday night, and they haven't announced the location yet. I assume it'll go wildly longer than scheduled, so depending on where it's held I may or may not be able to make it back to midtown in time.
    Already rationalizing about why it wouldn't be terrible to leave my cast mates in the lurch, for such a good cause...
    posted by Superplin at 8:51 AM on October 18, 2016 [21 favorites]


    The 2016 Race Has Been Amazingly Stable

    We're basically where we were before a primary ballot had been cast.

    - Trump's fav/unfav rating in Jan. 2016: 29% positive, 58% negative
    - Trump's fav/unfav now: 29% positive, 62% negative

    - Clinton's fav/unfav in Jan. 2016: 40% positive, 49% negative
    - Clinton's fav/unfav now: 40% positive, 50% negative

    - The two-way ballot in Jan. 2016: Clinton 51%, Trump 41%
    - The two-way ballot now: Clinton 51%, Trump 41%
    posted by chris24 at 8:52 AM on October 18, 2016 [24 favorites]


    We're basically where we were before a primary ballot had been cast.

    I understand this argument, but part of me thinks this is like saying "the economy has been stable for the past 8 years because unemployment now is basically where it was in January 2008"

    I guess the lesson is, partially, that forecasting is hard and many times you can't beat a random walk.
    posted by dismas at 8:54 AM on October 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


    The local sports radio show that I listen to almost daily is followed immediately afterwards by Rush, and the commercial breaks sometimes feature "highlights" of Rush.

    Hell yeah Rush! Oh, you mean the Limbaugh one. Boo.
    posted by LizBoBiz at 8:58 AM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Interesting data from a pair of brand analysts on Trump's declining brand. Note their data is from before the tape was released.


    Consumers who say Trump is distinctive -- down 10%
    Fun -- down 13%
    Trendy -- down 17%
    Stylish -- down 21%

    posted by humanfont at 8:59 AM on October 18, 2016 [16 favorites]


    OK someone on the Chris Hayes show definitely just called him "McMuffin"

    Gosh, really? You'd think there's zero chance McMullin hasn't been hearing this for basically his entire life.


    It used to be only until 11am though.
    posted by srboisvert at 9:03 AM on October 18, 2016 [79 favorites]


    New AZ poll. Clinton up 39-37.

    Sadly McCain up 10.
    posted by chris24 at 9:03 AM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]




    The Scholastic kids poll, which apparently has been right since the 60s, has Hillary at 52% and Trump at 35%.
    posted by drezdn at 9:05 AM on October 18, 2016 [19 favorites]


    The kids are all right. (Obama won voters under 30 by 23 points.)

    @AlGiordano
    Ipsos USA Today/Rock the Vote poll of 1,020 millennials:

    Clinton 68%, Trump 20%, Johnson 8%, Stein 1%.

    New USA TODAY/RTV Poll Finds Clinton’s Support Among Millennials Grows
    posted by chris24 at 9:07 AM on October 18, 2016 [17 favorites]


    Watching Obama talking live at the White House speaking with Matteo Renzi (Prime Minister of Italy) alongside him, about Trump's comments about Russia, and also about 'the emails', and the quid pro quo thing.

    I will never get tired of Obama being president. I'll try to find video or a transcript of what he just said. But it was everything you want in a president. Measured, pointed, appropriate.
    posted by cashman at 9:10 AM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    The 2016 Race Has Been Amazingly Stable

    This statement only works for a very limited definition stable. Outside of favorability/unfavorability, how has the race really been stable? The Republican party is in serious trouble as national party right now and facing a civil war as soon as the election is finished. That's going to cause disruption of the Democratic party, as elements within it identify and take advantages of the shift in identities of voters.

    Nationalism and racism, once two things that people didn't actively identify with politically, are now displayed openly at political rallies, and even at the national political convention.

    So yeah, if we measure things one dimensionally, this year's presidential context was extremely stable.
    posted by herda05 at 9:10 AM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    re: Fundraisers and donations arguments:

    I don't want to quote it 'cause it was well-intentioned and I feel bad, but... I'm lucky enough that I get to sleep late today, so I caught up on MeFi this morning while still in bed, and the moment I saw another suggestion of another fundraiser I felt tired all over again.

    This year has had me throwing money at more causes and more charities and more GoFundMes than ever before. Listing them feels sanctimonious or something, but I've lost track anyway. It's like every day there's something I feel like I need to donate to or I'll feel bad for passing. (And no, I'm not even talking about the NCGOP; I only take issue with having the argument, not anyone's feelings on it.) Plus Seattle's homeless population isn't going away so I'm giving to panhandlers and feeling like shit every time I see someone else with a cardboard sign while I've got take-out in the car. I'm really not up for donating time instead of money, either. I'm just not.

    Has anyone else hit donation fatigue yet?
    posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:11 AM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    The local sports radio show that I listen to almost daily is followed immediately afterwards by Rush,


    And the men who hold high places
    Must be the ones who start
    To mold a new reality
    Closer to the heart


    Oh. The Limburger. Yeah. Ok. Fuck. I'll see myself out.
    posted by nubs at 9:12 AM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Well, Sam Wang also thinks it's been incredibly stable.

    "This year’s Presidential campaign has been full of drama (much of which is captured in a single current story, that of Donald Trump and Alicia Machado). Despite all the venom and extremeness, actual voter sentiment is more stable than it’s ever been."
    posted by chris24 at 9:13 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Whoa to the 538 forecast for the Missouri Senate seat: On 10/16, Nowcast had Blunt (R) with a 56.1% chance of winning the seat and Kander (D) with a 43.9% chance. Today it flips and it's 62.1% for Kander, 37.9% for Blunt.
    I love it.
    I don't trust it, I'm not complacent, I was out canvassing with my 2yo (in his stroller, waving an enthusiastic bye-bye to every person who answered the door) on Saturday, and we'll be out there again next weekend.
    But oh it's nice to feel a ray of sunshine there.
    posted by aabbbiee at 9:15 AM on October 18, 2016 [32 favorites]


    Is US political culture more "militarized" now than it was in the 80s (or during the Cold War generally)?

    I think it's different. Back then we had "Red Dawn", the Evil Empire, Tom Clancy, and we played turn-based Strategic Air Command simulators for fun. Sometimes the "enemy" was lefty anti-war activists. But the "enemy" was mainly external -- you might hear the occasional joke about such-and-such being a Commie spy. The distressing trend in the last 15 years seems to be that we've turned our search for the "enemy" onto ourselves.
    posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:18 AM on October 18, 2016 [12 favorites]


    I think the race has been statistically stable (who wins, numbers) but politically very unstable.
    Dunno what that really means, but the numbers don't care about politics.
    (Trying to post with lynx. Text browsing works well for these crazy thread)
    posted by jclarkin at 9:18 AM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Has anyone else hit donation fatigue yet?

    Jess sure hasn't.
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:19 AM on October 18, 2016 [28 favorites]


    someone call Texas. We get lonely down here.

    Weirdly, the HFA call app leaves some states off the list you can call, and it's not what you'd think. You can call, say, GA, but not TX.

    Also guys Mefites United is being beaten by BrosForHillary, we cannot let that slide.
    posted by corb at 9:19 AM on October 18, 2016 [34 favorites]


    There was a really strange Google Consumer Surveys poll of Missouri that had Clinton +11. It looks like the sudden rise of Kander in 538's senate forecast is based at least in part on that same Google poll. So - I don't know, there are a lot of really strange Google Consumer Surveys polls and I'm hesitant to draw any stronger conclusion from them than "Google Consumer Surveys has some really strange poll results."
    posted by Jeanne at 9:22 AM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    If there is, as many people have hinted at, another big piece of anti-Trump oppo research, when do folks think it will drop?

    If such a drop is being timed intentionally, I would think either tonight or tomorrow morning. Tonight gives enough time for it to be on the nightly news and work its way into the campaign narrative, but it also gives Trump and his surrogates more time to work up a counter-story, so I'm not sure how to weigh the odds between those.

    Either way, I would think before the debate makes the most sense. It would almost certainly result in Trump spending the debate on defense, and he can't really afford to do that if he wants to have any chance of turning things around.
    posted by tocts at 9:26 AM on October 18, 2016


    Obama just asked about Trump's "omgz itz rigged" nonsense. He paused for a good 4 seconds and said America's election is typically a bitter fight and then afterward the loser congratulates the winner, affirms our democracy, and moves forward. And that is how democracy thrives.

    He later made the point that democracy thrives by consent - not by force. In his lifetime he's never seen any presidential candidate trying to dismiss the results of the election before the votes have even been cast. He went on to say that incidents of voter fraud are rare to be found, that this whole thing is based on no facts, that the election is decentralized, and he cited Republican-governored Florida.

    Obama said that is not demonstrating leadership. "If you start whining before the game's even over?....If whenever things go bad or don't go your way, you start complaining? Then you don't have what it takes for this job (Takes left hand, points left thumb backward a couple times)".

    "I'd advise Mr. Trump to stop whining and go make his case to get votes."

    It went on, and was great. I suspect the "then you don't have what it takes for this job" with the thumb motion will get played on the news tonight. Forgive me for my open love for Barack. I voted for white guys for years and never imagined as a kid doing post-voting stuff outside of a polling place for my social studies class, that I'd be here at the end of 8 years of not only a black president, but one of the best presidents.
    posted by cashman at 9:29 AM on October 18, 2016 [122 favorites]


    The 2016 Race Has Been Amazingly Stable

    We're basically where we were before a primary ballot had been cast.


    Thanks for all the agita, idiot country that I love.
    posted by schadenfrau at 9:30 AM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    "This year’s Presidential campaign has been full of drama (much of which is captured in a single current story, that of Donald Trump and Alicia Machado). Despite all the venom and extremeness, actual voter sentiment is more stable than it’s ever been."

    This is not a good thing.
    posted by srboisvert at 9:31 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    What if Trump, at tomorrow's debate -- his last shot in front of millions of viewers -- got up there and claimed that his whole candidacy had been a sham, a purposeful attempt to destroy the Republican party? That his campaign implosion had been planned for years?

    He could drop the mic and walk away after the first two minutes and become the most astounding figure in American political history. Instead of a failure, he'd be an enigma... he could make a kind-of-believable case that he was the most powerful political manipulator of all time.

    That's not going to happen... but, honestly, why not?
    posted by gurple at 9:32 AM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    Former First Lady of Washington State, Mona Lee Locke speaks out about sexual harassment she has faced: 'I refuse to be victimized anymore'
    Having sought legal advice, I had been told, "Don't do or say anything because it will hurt you more. This person is too rich, too powerful, too influential." And to remind you, as a former journalist, the former First Lady of Washington state, former wife of the U.S. Secretary of Commerce who then became U.S. Ambassador to China, I was a public figure my entire career. Yet, I have been silenced through the years by the fears of what could happen to me, how I would be perceived by the public, my peers, future employers, my family and friends. Just imagine how many countless other women have suffered in silence, like me.
    posted by duffell at 9:35 AM on October 18, 2016 [85 favorites]


    I know we're not supposed draft the Obamas in our fantasy administrations, but I kinda do want Barack to stick around for a few years as Hillary's anger translator.
    posted by schadenfrau at 9:35 AM on October 18, 2016 [20 favorites]


    Donald Trump, Private Eye
    It was late, folks, let me tell you. The kind of late where I knew only trouble could find me. It was late like you’ve never seen. And rainy. So I’m sitting in my office, and in walks this dame. A solid nine. Ten if I’m being generous.

    I kiss her on the face. When you’re a star detective, they let you do it.
    posted by kirkaracha at 9:36 AM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    There are 18 mentions of the word garbgae in this thread.
    Here´s another. Donald Trump's garbage heap of a soul.
    posted by adamvasco at 9:37 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Either way, I would think before the debate makes the most sense. It would almost certainly result in Trump spending the debate on defense, and he can't really afford to do that if he wants to have any chance of turning things around.

    Trump already has two big things to answer for at tomorrow's debate: the many accusations of sexual assault, and his indefensible conspiracy theories about the election being rigged. If Clinton has tactical oppo missiles yet to be fired, she's in a good position to save them for a November Surprise.
    posted by prize bull octorok at 9:37 AM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Obamas never ever going to die.
    posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:39 AM on October 18, 2016 [14 favorites]


    Is US political culture more "militarized" now than it was in the 80s (or during the Cold War generally)?

    It may be confirmation bias, since I noticed it and became annoyed by it, but I have seen more inappropriate use of "the Commander-in-Chief" to describe the President in any context than other than his actual role commanding the military .
    posted by thelonius at 9:39 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Hillary's anger translator.

    Oh snap! I have a hacked easy button at home I think that is about to get updated with "C'mon man!"
    posted by cmfletcher at 9:41 AM on October 18, 2016 [23 favorites]


    It may be confirmation bias, since I noticed it and became annoyed by it, but I have seen more inappropriate use of "the Commander-in-Chief" to describe the President in any context than other than his actual role commanding the military .

    I remember way more of that in the Bush years.
    posted by Etrigan at 9:42 AM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Eichenwald, who I now know seems to spend an inordinate amount of time picking fights with random people on Twitter, has a new profile: A People’s History of Donald Trump's Business Busts and Countless Victims, focusing on the destruction he has left behind throughout his business career.
    posted by zachlipton at 9:44 AM on October 18, 2016 [15 favorites]


    It may be confirmation bias, since I noticed it and became annoyed by it, but I have seen more inappropriate use of "the Commander-in-Chief" to describe the President in any context than other than his actual role commanding the military .

    I remember way more of that in the Bush years.


    HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF DURING WARTIME CITIZEN

    it was like living through a non-satire, non-sci-fi version of starship troopers, and it made me want to vomit
    posted by Existential Dread at 9:47 AM on October 18, 2016 [53 favorites]


    The Bush Wars militarized this nation, for one thing, because it was clear at the beginning, the premises were false. So then the militarized still had to do the bidding of the administration, and with low public support, still had to tend their wounds and find their way home. The lack of support for the wars, was not lack of support for those that fought them, but the chintzy assed folks who have failed, and continue to fail the vets are partly to blame for the militarization of everything. The vets now have to defend themselves, and their place in history. The arms sellers have to move their merchandise, therefore the police are militarized, our mentality is militarized because with out it, there is no reason to buy. Who is the new enemy? It is you.

    Trump has also made it clear the new enemy is uppity women. I had something drop into my Facebook feed today, "Women deserve equal rights, and lefts." I don't venture out onto the web ocean too much, but I am sure this stuff is rampant.
    posted by Oyéah at 9:47 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Nevada's Election Integrity Task Force is currently holding a press conference with Secretary of State Barbara Cegavske (R), FBI Special Agent in Charge, and a US Attorney. Message is "Your vote is safe, stop this 'rigged' talk." Jon Ralston is livetweeting it here.
    posted by stolyarova at 9:47 AM on October 18, 2016 [10 favorites]


    Chris Christie Doesn't Sound Very Proud Of The Trump Campaign (VIDEO)

    "For me, the person who needs most to be concerned about the kind of campaign they’re running is the candidate. Because it’s the candidate’s campaign. It’s not my campaign. It’s not Jeff Sessions’ campaign. It’s not Rudy Giuliani’s campaign. We’re surrogates," Christie told NBC News’ Kelly O’Donnell in an interview that aired Tuesday morning on MSNBC. "And I’m proud of everything I’ve said and that’s all I can control. The rest of it I can’t control."
    posted by chris24 at 9:48 AM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Also, Obama saying 'Democracy works by consent. Not by force.'

    ...
    posted by cashman at 9:49 AM on October 18, 2016 [44 favorites]


    From the Scholastic poll:
    Interestingly, Scholastic said kids in 2016 were more split than in past elections, as 13% of student voters wrote in “other choices.” Write-in votes were cast for Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson (2%), Senator Bernie Sanders (1%), and Green Party candidate Jill Stein (1%). Others who received votes included rapper Kanye West, superhero Spider-Man, Harambe the gorilla, and of course, "mom."
    posted by zachlipton at 9:49 AM on October 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


    Yeah, my memory of the militarization of American daily life is that it all ramped up really hard after 9/11, was most typified by Dubya's administration, and that it has mostly begun to ebb away at this point. There are a few things that have stuck around because people forget the context or that we pretty recently didn't used to do them, but for the most part as far as my own perception goes we are pretty close to pre-9/11 levels of military-worship at this point.

    My big exception would be having a special term for the parents of soldiers killed in action ("gold star" families), which seems almost fascist in its level of military-worship. But then again might just be related to the relatively small number of American war casualties nowadays.
    posted by Sara C. at 9:53 AM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Egg's on MSNBC right now quick turn it on.
    posted by cashman at 9:53 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I kinda do want Barack to stick around for a few years as Hillary's anger translator.

    I'd prefer Daenerys. Or, shit, just cut straight to Drogon.
    posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:53 AM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    it was like living through a non-satire, non-sci-fi version of starship troopers, and it made me want to vomit

    Yep and I also felt like I was the only one around me who saw that this was a new thing and not something we were doing a year or so before.
    posted by Sara C. at 9:54 AM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    If anyone is looking to take part in the election process, but doesn't want to make phone calls or canvass, you can become an election judge or election coordinator. Just google "become election judge $CITY" or "$ZIPCODE," and you should get a link to your local board of elections. This is a paying job, at least where I am.

    You attend a four-hour training session, and then spend election day at the polls (your day will start very very early). Here in Chicago the pay is $200 for an election judge and $500 for an election coordinator.

    If you're unemployed or looking for work, it's a good way to make some quick cash, and if you have a job and some available PTO, it's a good way to make extra cash.
    posted by chonus at 9:55 AM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    There are a few things that have stuck around because people forget the context or that we pretty recently didn't used to do them

    I'll have to explain to my daughter when she's old enough that we didn't used to sing "God Bless America" at baseball games and have people their take hats off for it like it it's the damn national anthem when it's not.
    posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:56 AM on October 18, 2016 [16 favorites]


    cmfletcher: "I have a hacked easy button at home I think that is about to get updated with "C'mon man!""

    I think the best part of Obama's "c'mon man" is that if you listen very carefully, you can hear the "[get the] fuck outta here" right after. [fake, but we know he's thinking it right?]
    posted by mhum at 9:58 AM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]




    Michael Moore's releasing a new film titled TrumpLand. There's a screening at NYC's IFC Center tonight at 9:30p with Moore in attendance.
    posted by rmannion at 10:00 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Random observation: Trump has striking similarities to Nero -- though it's now thought that Nero didn't burn Rome to clear space for a new palace, as a megalomaniac, he was convinced that he was a fantastic ruler, lover, athlete, actor, poet and singer. The Romans, however, soon tired of being locked in theatres, forced to listen to Nero's ceaseless verses and songs.

    The Dictator with rock star dreams (NPR, September 13, 2008)
    You see, the Romans were fussy about what a well-bred person could do. And of their various activities, almost anything you did on the stage was disgraceful and humiliating and prostituting oneself. And the sort of usual toffee-nosed elite Roman would have taken a dim view of anybody, let alone their emperor, taking up the stage and singing. But we do know an awful lot about it. And what Nero did - after all, if you're emperor, you can do these things - was he created festivals.
    posted by filthy light thief at 10:01 AM on October 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


    My sanity-preserving tweet of the day:
    @cameronesposito

    "Boys will be boys."
    Ok then women will be Presidents.

    posted by bibliowench at 10:01 AM on October 18, 2016 [98 favorites]


    Uhh, the Washington Post battleground has Texas as toss-up, +2 Trump
    posted by T.D. Strange at 10:02 AM on October 18, 2016 [24 favorites]


    Grassley: Senate 'Can’t Just Simply Stonewall' A Clinton SCOTUS Nominee

    RON HOWARD/NARRATOR: Grassley has been stonewalling a SCOTUS nominee for 216 days
    posted by zombieflanders at 10:02 AM on October 18, 2016 [68 favorites]


    From: For 'SNL,' Donald Trump is the gift that keeps on giving (previously upthread)
    Despite the negative tweet [about the last portrayal], Trump would do well to consider a cameo on "SNL" for the Saturday before the election, as John McCain did in 2008. Palin also appeared side-by-side with Fey earlier that fall. "Saturday Night Live" is much kinder to politicians when they're actually in the room, [James Andrew Miller] said.
    I would think if this came to be, cast members would walk out on him. It's happened once before, decades ago when Andrew Dice Clay was host.
    posted by ZeusHumms at 10:02 AM on October 18, 2016 [14 favorites]


    Surprising that Chuck said that given his stance on Merrick, but better than McCain I guess.
    posted by chris24 at 10:03 AM on October 18, 2016


    Michael Moore's releasing a new film titled TrumpLand.

    Ohhhh, THAT'S why he kept posting gloom and doom social media "Trump is going to win!!!" warnings.
    posted by a fiendish thingy at 10:08 AM on October 18, 2016 [19 favorites]


    It was hard to tell what side Michael Moore is on.
    posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:09 AM on October 18, 2016 [12 favorites]


    Trump Car DESTROYED in Black Neighborhood (Social Experiment)

    Turns out it's 100% fake.

    WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS. WHY IN THE FUCK WOULD YOU EVER DO THIS?!?

    Even though it's fake the truth is still putting its pants on. More stupid shit to debunk.
    posted by Talez at 10:10 AM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF DURING WARTIME CITIZEN

    it was like living through a non-satire, non-sci-fi version of starship troopers, and it made me want to vomit


    Starship Troopers is such a different film to watch after 2001. It just seems prescient instead of over-the-top cartoonish.
    posted by Elementary Penguin at 10:10 AM on October 18, 2016 [17 favorites]


    Yeah, that's probably true. If anything could get me to sympathize with Trump, it'd be Michael Moore's take on him.
    posted by gusottertrout at 10:11 AM on October 18, 2016


    It was hard to tell what side Michael Moore is on.

    Simple: Michael Moore is always on Michael Moore's side.
    posted by mochapickle at 10:11 AM on October 18, 2016 [14 favorites]


    Ohhhh, THAT'S why he kept posting gloom and doom social media "Trump is going to win!!!" warnings.

    Moore can be quite dramatically wrong about things. He was 100 percent sure OJ did not kill Nicole Brown Simpson.
    posted by maxsparber at 10:11 AM on October 18, 2016




    Michael Moore's releasing a new film titled TrumpLand.

    THIS

    CHANGES

    EVERYTHING
    posted by beerperson at 10:19 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]




    Smart decision. The less the voter knows about Trump, the more likely they are to vote for him.
    posted by Mitrovarr at 10:19 AM on October 18, 2016 [19 favorites]


    I remember going to see Fahrenheit 9/11 opening day at the Metreon in San Francisco. Big crowd, party atmosphere. We were all delighted to hear about how we were right about everything and how bad Bush was. We practically danced out of the theater. There's no way he could win after such a scathing indictment!
    posted by theodolite at 10:20 AM on October 18, 2016 [23 favorites]


    Despite the negative tweet [about the last portrayal], Trump would do well to consider a cameo on "SNL" for the Saturday before the election, as John McCain did in 2008.

    Didn't Trump already do this, earlier in the campaign?

    There's a problem when you're *already* doing damage control to seem more human and relatable, before voting even starts in the primaries.
    posted by Sara C. at 10:20 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    I would think if this came to be, cast members would walk out on him. It's happened once before, decades ago when Andrew Dice Clay was host

    I know there's an undercurrent that NBC has been propping Trump up, and certainly I've had my side-eye moments, but after he flat out said SNL should be canceled, they'd better not have him on the show. And Hillary should be on there at least one more time before the election.
    posted by cashman at 10:22 AM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Uhh, the Washington Post battleground has Texas as toss-up, +2 Trump

    Exciting, but if you check the details this is a Surveymokey poll that is adjusted for demographics. It's not a true random sampling poll, and thus may be of questionable accuracy.

    Which isn't to say it's not the case, but use a sufficiently large grain of salt.
    posted by jammer at 10:23 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    People were angry enough at SNL for letting him on earlier in the campaign. Imagine how furious viewers would be with SNL if they let him on now.
    posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:23 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Invite him and pitch him a sketch where it's 6 months after the election and he's working the counter of a Taco Bell.
    posted by cmfletcher at 10:25 AM on October 18, 2016 [35 favorites]




    Have Trump on SNL but make him play all of Chris Kattan's recurring characters from the 90s
    posted by beerperson at 10:27 AM on October 18, 2016 [25 favorites]


    Michael Moore's releasing a new film titled TrumpLand.
    Little is known about the film, but it appears to be comprised of footage of Michael Moore performing a "hilarious" one-man show "deep in the heart of TrumpLand in the weeks before the 2016 election."
    Oh for the days when Michael Moore and Donald Trump were still funny.
    posted by octobersurprise at 10:28 AM on October 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


    > "Random observation: Trump has striking similarities to Nero ..."

    Ohmigod for MONTHS now I have been looking at Trump and thinking of a quote from an issue of Neil Gaiman's Sandman set during the Roman Empire: "…in his will Augustus also appointed Tiberius as his successor: our divine rulers have, since then, been successively evil, mad, foolish, and — now — all three." (showing pictures in succession of Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, and finally Nero.)

    EVERY TIME TRUMP TALKS I think to myself "and — now — all three."
    posted by kyrademon at 10:28 AM on October 18, 2016 [40 favorites]


    Moore can be quite dramatically wrong about things. He was 100 percent sure OJ did not kill Nicole Brown Simpson.

    To be fair, some of Roger Smith's movements at the time seemed suspicious.
    posted by sebastienbailard at 10:28 AM on October 18, 2016


    I don't think either of them should be on SNL until after the election. Trump, because he's Trump and shouldn't be given the platform. Clinton at this point doesn't need to be, and it would just fuel his "media is in the tank for her" rhetoric.

    She should show up for a victory lap the week after, though.
    posted by dnash at 10:29 AM on October 18, 2016 [10 favorites]


    To me, NBC's track record of propping up Trump -- not to mention the track record during this electoral cycle of Lorne Michaels properties in specific working to make a prospective fascist dictator seem normal -- makes the idea of another guest appearance on SNL repugnant. If they want to show Donald Trump working a fast food drive thru they can have Alec Baldwin do it.
    posted by Sara C. at 10:29 AM on October 18, 2016 [20 favorites]


    >and have the regular cast just do an hour and a half of massively fucking up every single one of his line-readings

    THE ELOCUTION IS RIGGED
    posted by Sing Or Swim at 10:29 AM on October 18, 2016 [34 favorites]


    Trump can only be on if he only plays the Lindsey Buckingham Role on "What's Up With That."
    posted by drezdn at 10:33 AM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    (I had forgotten what Fahrenheit 9/11 was actually about, and looking it up now it's remarkable how much Michael Moore prefigured the current attacks on Clinton: accusations of fatal negligence, murky ties to foreign governments with implied ulterior motives, crying Gold Star mothers...)
    posted by theodolite at 10:33 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Clinton at this point doesn't need to be, and it would just fuel his "media is in the tank for her" rhetoric.

    Also, there's nothing that Clinton herself can do on the SNL stage to get herself elected that isn't already being done better by Kate-McKinnon-as-Clinton.
    posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:34 AM on October 18, 2016 [40 favorites]


    it's remarkable how much Michael Moore prefigured the current attacks on Clinton

    The attacks on Bush were true and the attacks on Clinton aren't.
    posted by kirkaracha at 10:36 AM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    If I ran SNL, I'd get Trump on, throw out the cue cards, get him onto a locker room set, announce we're not doing whatever sketch he rehearsed, and invite Samantha Bee to lead an intervention on why sexual assault is not ok.
    posted by zachlipton at 10:36 AM on October 18, 2016 [37 favorites]


    Michael Moore's releasing a new film titled TrumpLand.

    This means Trump will spend the last weeks of his campaign raging out of his mind at Michael Moore rather than focusing on Clinton or harping on his Rigged Elections line to lay the groundwork for a putsch. Nice.
    posted by Slap*Happy at 10:37 AM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Kate-McKinnon-as-Clinton possesses this weird quality where the more they try to slam on Clinton for being unrelatar or artificial the more adorable she gets.
    posted by Artw at 10:37 AM on October 18, 2016 [60 favorites]


    Kate-McKinnon-as-Clinton possesses this weird quality where the more they try to slam on Clinton for being unrelatar or artificial the more adorable she gets.

    I think a lot of that goes to McKinnon just being ridiculously charismatic and adorable herself. She's clearly a Hillary fan and it comes across.

    "He's spent his life cheating middle-class laborers – laborers like my own human father, who made, I guess, drapes, or printed drapes or sold drapes, something with drapes. He was relatable and I am also relatable."

    edit: Trumped Up Trickle Down Jinx!
    posted by leotrotsky at 10:42 AM on October 18, 2016 [11 favorites]


    Also Trump plays The Continental because of course he does
    posted by beerperson at 10:42 AM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Exactly, Artw. Also every time Sketch Clinton gets to roll her eyes at or otherwise mocks Sketch Trump, I imagine the Real Clinton watching it and feeling so much relief that some version of herself is getting to do that and it giving her more power to go forward.

    Basically, I believe in magic when it comes to Kate McKinnon.
    posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:43 AM on October 18, 2016 [61 favorites]


    last weeks of his campaign raging out of his mind at Michael Moore

    Watching WWE last night, I had a fantasy- imagine if Vince McMahon came out hard against Donnie. Sure a lot of his fans would hate him for it but if you look at how the WWE is pushing their women superstars, how kid- friendly they want to be, I think it could be a smart move. He'd dominate a news cycle or two, get a ton of earned media for his company, and send Donnie into a tailspin of vengeful crazytalk. A fan can dream....
    posted by vrakatar at 10:43 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    lso, there's nothing that Clinton herself can do on the SNL stage to get herself elected that isn't already being done better by Kate-McKinnon-as-Clinton.

    Except for tend bar.
    posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:43 AM on October 18, 2016 [16 favorites]


    "As my best friend Michelle Obama once said, 'When they go low, you go high!' God, I love that quote - almost as memorable as when I said 'Trumped-up trickle-down economics!' Just a couple o' equally famous quotes from a couple o' equally lovable women."
    posted by stolyarova at 10:45 AM on October 18, 2016 [35 favorites]


    imagine if Vince McMahon came out hard against Donnie.

    His wife has given $6M to a Trump SuperPAC.
    posted by Etrigan at 10:46 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Except for tend bar.

    COUNTERPOINT
    posted by beerperson at 10:46 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Have Trump on SNL but make him play all of Chris Kattan's recurring characters from the 90s

    Is that really punishment, though? As I recall, Chris Kattan couldn't stop fucking LAUGHING every time he was on camera.
    posted by PlusDistance at 10:47 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    6 months after the election and he's working the counter of a Taco BellCinnabon in Omaha.
    posted by uncleozzy at 10:47 AM on October 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


    it looks like some folks here don't remember Mr. Peepers
    posted by beerperson at 10:49 AM on October 18, 2016 [10 favorites]


    CJR: "It’s not called ‘fondling.’ It’s called ‘assault.’"
    posted by zarq at 10:50 AM on October 18, 2016 [13 favorites]


    ugh O'Keefe has posted a second video titled RIGGING THE ELECTION

    I don't have the stomach to watch it but conspiracy twitter is going crazy
    posted by stolyarova at 10:52 AM on October 18, 2016


    It's a little disappointing that Obama doesn't have a fat Cuban maduro hanging out of the corner of his mouth at all times now
    posted by theodolite at 10:55 AM on October 18, 2016 [10 favorites]


    UH poll shows Donald Trump leading Hillary Clinton by 3 percent in Texas

    Just 3%. That's within the poll's margin of error.
    posted by zarq at 10:55 AM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Going?
    posted by zombieflanders at 10:56 AM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Tablet: What Will Become of Jared Kushner?, a longish profile of Kushner, focusing on his oversight of the Observer (where the author was a reporter) and his conduct as a NYC landlord.
    posted by zachlipton at 10:56 AM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    > "... conspiracy twitter is going crazy"

    "Going" crazy? I'm not sure I agree with your tense, there.

    (On preview ... um, great minds think alike?)
    posted by kyrademon at 10:56 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    conspiracy twitter is going crazy

    FTFY
    posted by zakur at 10:56 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Pence is a master of deflection and pivoting.
    posted by Talez at 10:59 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Projection/Deflection 2016
    posted by peeedro at 11:00 AM on October 18, 2016 [17 favorites]


    Good news, everyone! Remember that Trump-loving small-town Pennsylvania mayor who was posting racist and threatening stuff on Facebook about Obama? His town council kicked him out. (TW: racist and sexist memes.) In true Trump fashion, he doubled down on the disgusting after his ouster.
    posted by xyzzy at 11:02 AM on October 18, 2016 [19 favorites]


    CONSPIRACY TWITTER IS ALREADY CR [trips on shoelaces]
    posted by beerperson at 11:02 AM on October 18, 2016 [30 favorites]


    An Update from People Magazine: PEOPLE Reveals 6 Witnesses Who Corroborate Natasha Stoynoff’s Story of Being Attacked by Donald Trump, including a friend of the reporter who says she was there when they ran into Melania, a meeting Melania says never happened and several sources who say Stoynoff told them about Trump's assault when it happened in 2005.
    Stoynoff admits there’s a chance Trump simply pushed her own incident from his mind.

    “It’s possible he just doesn’t remember it,” Stoynoff says. “It was over 10 years ago and I assume I am one of many, many women.
    posted by zachlipton at 11:18 AM on October 18, 2016 [76 favorites]


    Re the new Texas poll, I'm hopefully she may have a win there. There is a decent chance a LOT of immigrants show up to vote who have never voted before, and are therefore underrepresented in most polls.
    posted by craven_morhead at 11:21 AM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    One of those six witnesses People revealed is a friend of Stoynoff's who says she was with her the day Stoynoff ran into Melania on 5th Ave, as she wrote about in the original article.

    It'll be interesting to see how the Trump campaign spins this, and by that I mean it'll be interesting to see what words they choose to discredit the witnesses.
    posted by palomar at 11:22 AM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    It'll be interesting to see how the Trump campaign spins this, and by that I mean it'll be interesting to see what words they choose to discredit the witnesses.

    We're so far beyond "spin" that I'm pretty sure it'll be "They're lying. Yes they are. Yes they are. YES THEY ARE EMAILS BENGHAZI."
    posted by Etrigan at 11:23 AM on October 18, 2016 [11 favorites]


    Re: Texas, I'll be the wet blanket who applies Occam's Razor via polling principles: (a) it's just as likely that he's actually up 7 and the result is at the low end of the margin of error; and (b) the margin of error is only 95% accurate -- meaning one in 20 polls will be completely off base. This might be one of those. I'd believe either of those before a tie in Texas.
    posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:24 AM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    “It was over 10 years ago and I assume I am one of many, many women."

    Oh, snap.
    posted by zarq at 11:25 AM on October 18, 2016 [36 favorites]


    I'm a short trip away from the theater where Michael Moore is showing TrumpLand tonight, so I'll do my best to see the show and report back. ("Best" is contingent on the line and my willingness to wait in it, given that I can't get there until 8ish.)
    posted by Leslie Knope at 11:30 AM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    An aside in the Obama-love theme - the other day YouTube threw the Obama episode of Comedians In Cars Getting Coffee at me. And after that the last Correspondents' Dinner speech he did. I'd not really thought anything much of Obama before that - nothing negative, and infinitely better than Bush, but nothing excessive. But now I'm an unabashed fan. I'm not sure the U.S. took as much advantage as it could of having someone like that as head of state.

    Also, Jerry Seinfeld could do a version of Top Gear I'd actually want to watch, but I suppose that's less important.
    posted by Grangousier at 11:31 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS. WHY IN THE FUCK WOULD YOU EVER DO THIS?!?

    Even though it's fake the truth is still putting its pants on. More stupid shit to debunk.


    Thanks metafilter collective for being the truth's butler or whatever and debunking these dumb things very quickly.
    posted by DynamiteToast at 11:32 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]




    Re: Texas, I'll be the wet blanket who applies Occam's Razor via polling principles...

    Don't Mess With My Texas Fantasies!
    posted by Atom Eyes at 11:32 AM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    I also have my doubts about that WaPo poll.

    Georgia +3 Clinton?

    Iowa is +5 Trump --> three points more red than Texas?

    New Hampshire +11 Clinton?

    Those state-level numbers seem kinda all over the place.
    posted by tivalasvegas at 11:36 AM on October 18, 2016


    Uhh, the Washington Post battleground has Texas as toss-up, +2 Trump

    Exciting, but if you check the details this is a Surveymokey poll that is adjusted for demographics. It's not a true random sampling poll, and thus may be of questionable accuracy.


    Yes, agreed, but seriously the R and the D candidates are polling within the margin of error in both Ohio (swingiest of states) and TEXAS.

    TEXAS.

    She's not going to win Texas, but...

    TEXAS.

    This fucking election.

    (Also, a big "C'mon, man" at Ohio. You're gonna go Trump NOW? Booooooooo....)
    posted by chonus at 11:38 AM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    for the most part as far as my own perception goes we are pretty close to pre-9/11 levels of military-worship at this point.


    I'm just guessing you don't watch the NFL. If it were not for the pinkwashing they would be invisible because of all the camo the wrap themselves in.
    posted by srboisvert at 11:38 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Iowa is +5 Trump --> three points more red than Texas?

    Iowa is 5 percent Latinx. Texas is 45 percent.
    posted by Etrigan at 11:38 AM on October 18, 2016 [24 favorites]


    For those with an interest in these things, this resource was recently put out by the Volcker Alliance:

    State Budget Sources: An annotated reference guide to state budgets, financial reports, and fiscal analyses
    The guide includes links to budgets for all fifty states as well as legislative analyses of budget bills and treasurers’ or comptrollers’ monthly state cash-flow statements; capital spending plans; reports on public-worker pension funding and returns; and reports by local and national fiscal research organizations, bond rating firms, and associations of state fiscal and finance officials.
    posted by melissasaurus at 11:38 AM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Trump and Pence would like to register a complaint that the attack on the NC GOP office didn't get enough media coverage:
    “I'm here to call attention to an act of political terrorism on the Orange County republican headquarters in north Carolina,” Pence told a crowd of reporters outside the ruined office on Tuesday. “This has gotten very little national media attention, and I can't help but feel that had this been the other way around—had it been an attack in this county on the other political party's county headquarters—that the level of coverage and discussion would be significantly different and I think most of the American people know that.”

    Pence’s running mate, Donald Trump, made a similar point on the show of syndicated radio host Mike Gallagher on Tuesday.

    “They would have made Trump into being the worst, horrible, horrible human being,” the Republican presidential nominee said.

    “They hardly even covered it,” Trump went on. “And if that were done to a Democratic place of the same nature it would be worldwide news. It would be the biggest thing, and they'd say ‘racism’ and all of this other nonsense that they use.”
    posted by zachlipton at 11:41 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish: Re: Texas, I'll be the wet blanket who applies Occam's Razor via polling principles

    I agree with your analysis of polls. According to 538, Alaska, Missouri and Georgia are currently more likely to turn blue, but they're all close.

    In Alaska, there have been 7 polls that fall partially or completely in October, and the adjusted leaders range from +13 Clinton to +10 Trump, but the two that show a major lead for Donald are from C+ rated pollsters. Similarly, but with fewer polls, Missouri has 3 polls partially or completely within October, ranging from +11 Clinton to +11 Trump. Georgia has 10 recent-ish polls, most favoring Trump, with a range of Trump +13 to Clinton +5. Texas has 12 polls within October, and all are up for Trump, ranging from +1 to +25.

    But that's assuming the polls are getting it right. As others have said in these threads, Texas is changing in ways that may not be accurately captured in initial polling or represented in polling results.
    posted by filthy light thief at 11:42 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    “This has gotten very little national media attention, and I can't help but feel that had this been the other way around—had it been an attack in this county on the other political party's county headquarters—that the level of coverage and discussion would be significantly different and I think most of the American people know that.”

    He's right, the level of coverage has been significantly different.
    posted by Etrigan at 11:43 AM on October 18, 2016 [35 favorites]


    So now we're allowed to use "terrorism" to refer to something not known to have been perpetrated by Islamic extremists?
    posted by tonycpsu at 11:47 AM on October 18, 2016


    If such a drop is being timed intentionally, I would think either tonight or tomorrow morning. Tonight gives enough time for it to be on the nightly news and work its way into the campaign narrative, but it also gives Trump and his surrogates more time to work up a counter-story, so I'm not sure how to weigh the odds between those.

    But it also gives Trump more time to go into defensive meltdown 3 am tweet rage mode. And since that kind of tantrum precisely fits the Trump-tailspin narrative, the media will be looking for it. Whenever they release any attack, based on oppo research or otherwise, I expect Team Clinton is counting on Trump, with good reason, to help their effort by reacting badly. (After all, many of Clinton's "very unfair, vicious" ads consist of Trumps own words.)
    posted by Gelatin at 11:48 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Um. Regarding Texas going blue for the Prez election...

    I live in Texas and I mean, y'all, there are some really disheartening parts of this state.

    I'm not even gonna let my heart get broken by remotely thinking Texas will go for Hillary.

    in the deepest, most private places in her heart, Annika secretly holds out tattered hopes that Texas will go for Hillary.
    posted by Annika Cicada at 11:50 AM on October 18, 2016 [89 favorites]


    The media shouldn't ask Mr Pence about his attempts to intimidate voters and block registration in Indiana.
    posted by humanfont at 11:51 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]




    Profiles in courage - John McCain:
    McCain Flees Reporters After His Vow To Obstruct Clinton SCOTUS Nominees
    posted by T.D. Strange at 11:58 AM on October 18, 2016 [32 favorites]


    “If they are connected, it is someone who adheres to a very-far-out-there political ideology,” he remarked.

    This unnamed person thinks both fascism AND capitalism are bad? That IS a far-out ideology! Those are supposed to be our only two options!


    I'm glad you posted this quote because my immediate thought was: oh my god somebody from Metafilter did this. Wait, where was I on Sunday morning? Was it me?
    posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:58 AM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Jimmy Kimmel segment on Drunk Donald Trump
    posted by DynamiteToast at 11:59 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Iowa is 5 percent Latinx. Texas is 45 percent.

    That's what Wikipedia says -- but [cite needed]. Because the US Census Bureau gives 38.8% Hispanic or Latino as of 2015 (compared to 37.6% as of 2010).

    Now it may well be the case that Latinx voting in Texas is going to increase substantially over 2012 and 2008, as I'm sure a higher proportion of Latinx Texans are now of voting age and/or have citizenship and are highly motivated to vote.

    But purely on the demographic argument, there's not really that many more Latinx people in Texas than there were in 2010 which, frankly, I was surprised to see.
    posted by tivalasvegas at 12:01 PM on October 18, 2016


    in the deepest, most private places in her heart, Annika secretly holds out tattered hopes that Texas will go for Hillary.

    I just bought some long shot shares on Predict It. If you guys can pull this off I promise to put those winnings into a kick ass brisket which I will smoke in honor of you and your neighbors. I will also refrain from saying anything nasty about the Dallas Cowboys for 10 full minutes.
    posted by cmfletcher at 12:01 PM on October 18, 2016 [19 favorites]


    “If they are connected, it is someone who adheres to a very-far-out-there political ideology,” he remarked.


    AAAHAHAHAHAH Oh man. How fucking quickly we forget who our decades-long Big Bad used to be.
    posted by soren_lorensen at 12:01 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    re Texas going blue:
    It was mentioned on NPR this morning along with AZ and GA, and I think even mentioning it on national press (along with WaPo) helps that cause. That said, I saw THE FIRST "Deplorable and proud" and "Hillary for prison" stickers on a truck, today. Ugh. (Though I do see more and more Hillary signs and stickers every day)

    The latest Keepin it 1600 is a fun one, though, which is helping.
    posted by rp at 12:02 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Regarding the article up thread about the black women working on Clinton's campaign, while it's not the first time I'd heard it (noted by various articles in the primaries), I am so, so, SO glad to see organizations walking the walk. And as the article notes, it's not just a few black women in prominent political positions, but also black women in the more operational parts of the campaign (finance and so on). There are some black women on their tech team. Campaign tech jobs are some of the hardest to recruit for: long hours, urgent, constant crunch time, lower pay, etc. That they formed a (for tech) diverse team speaks well to that being valued within the campaign organization all over.
    posted by R343L at 12:04 PM on October 18, 2016 [31 favorites]


    “They would have made Trump into being the worst, horrible, horrible human being,” the Republican presidential nominee said.

    What, again?
    posted by zarq at 12:04 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    So now we're allowed to use 'terrorism' to refer to something not known to have been perpetrated by Islamic extremists?

    Only until we find out if white guys did it. Then it's not terrorism.
    posted by kirkaracha at 12:08 PM on October 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


    re Texas going blue:
    It was mentioned on NPR this morning along with AZ and GA, and I think even mentioning it on national press (along with WaPo) helps that cause.


    I wonder if it influences things the other way too though. I live in Houston and have been surprised at the low amount of Trump signs and bumper stickers compared to other years. I think it might be residual Cruz fallout since the Republicans here generally love him. In any case, most of the Republicans I know say they aren't voting for Trump, but I wonder how many of those are comfortable "my vote doesn't really matter, Texas is solidly red so I can vote for Johnson and not feel bad about a Clinton presidency" voters who will switch back if it gets close.
    posted by DynamiteToast at 12:10 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


     
    posted by wildblueyonder at 12:11 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    McCain Flees Reporters After His Vow To Obstruct Clinton SCOTUS Nominees

    Minstrel: [singing] Brave Sir Maverick ran away...
    Sir Maverick: No!
    Minstrel: [singing] Bravely ran away away...
    Sir Maverick: I didn't!
    Minstrel: [singing] When danger reared its ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled.
    Sir Maverick: I never did!
    Minstrel: [singing] Yes, brave Sir Maverick turned about, and valiantly, he chickened out.
    Sir Maverick: Oh, you liars!
    Minstrel: [singing] Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat. A brave retreat by brave Sir Maverick.
    posted by kirkaracha at 12:11 PM on October 18, 2016 [63 favorites]


    You’re Lying to Yourself if You Think Trump is the Answer | The Closer with Keith Olbermann | GQ (12 minutes)

    Speaking to those who may vote for Trump: your grandfather or great-grandfather was likely ostracized or blamed as you blame others now. "Voting for Donald Trump is like getting mad that you don't get the car you want, so you take the car you have, and drive it into the wall. While you are in it. Your family is in it. While your country is in it."

    "He has been the dictator in his life, and now he want's to be the dictator in your life. You know this man. You have always known this man."

    Final comment: if Donald defends himself from Jessica Leeds' accusation by saying "She would not be my first choice ... That would not be my first choice," who would be his first choice? Your daughter?
    posted by filthy light thief at 12:12 PM on October 18, 2016 [24 favorites]


    Donald Trump And His Supporters Are Actually Making Women Sick

    Swear to Maude, I've had trouble concentrating and would very much like to curl up in bed with the entire menu at Porto's. On the other hand, the fact that black women specifically and diversity more broadly are being valued so highly by Hillary's campaign, makes me want to get up and cheer. So, I'm just going to sit here and try to unfuck my fuckedupness...
    posted by Sophie1 at 12:16 PM on October 18, 2016 [27 favorites]


    I was wondering if I was the only person who was having trouble being intimate with my partner, because the memory of my assault is at the forefront of my mind like it hasn't been since it happened, over a decade ago.
    posted by BuddhaInABucket at 12:21 PM on October 18, 2016 [15 favorites]


    Charlotte Triggs is on MSNBC currently demolishing Trump's "they're all lying" about Natasha Stoynoff.
    posted by Talez at 12:21 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    I'm telling y'all, fucking landslide.

    Steve Koczela ‏@skoczela

    Margin for Trump in NJ internal Republican polling vs (HuffPollster avg)
    NH: -14 (-5)
    PA: -11 (-6)
    MO: +2 (+7)
    posted by joedan at 12:24 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Speaking to those who may vote for Trump: your grandfather or great-grandfather was likely ostracized or blamed as you blame others now.
    See Woodrow Wilson on hyphenated Americans: "Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready."
    posted by xyzzy at 12:25 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Keith Olbermann: "Speaking to those who may vote for Trump..."

    Ha ha ha! Oh, that Keith—he's still got it!
    posted by Atom Eyes at 12:26 PM on October 18, 2016




    > "Iowa is +5 Trump --> three points more red than Texas?"

    There has been some commentary that the U.S. was already in the midst of a voting realignment before this election even started. Certainly as a result of demographics that include education and diversity, some states that used to be Republican strongholds are getting bluer (Virginia fairly solidly Dem, North Carolina a swing state), and at the same time other states, such as a number of them the northern midwest, are getting redder. It would not be too shocking if, for example, in future elections VA and NC became reliable blue votes, IA and OH became reliable red votes, and the swing states moved south of the one and north of the other. Not guaranteed, but not shocking.

    While it's true I personally would be ... surprised if Texas ended up bluer than Iowa this time around, because the change has generally been a *lot* more gradual than that, the demographic potential for it to happen is, in fact, already in place. And this is quite a year.
    posted by kyrademon at 12:28 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    (Nothing really "juicy" except the delusion that these lying women will actually make people feel sorry for Trump or something, which will boost his already great polls)
    posted by filthy light thief at 12:29 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Listening to Trump's rally right now, it occurs to me that if he didn't start with outright appeals to racism and xenophobia and cloaked it in a thin veneer of economic populism then he might have beaten Hillary.
    posted by Talez at 12:30 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    ugh O'Keefe has posted a second video titled RIGGING THE ELECTION

    I don't have the stomach to watch it but conspiracy twitter is going crazy


    I watch garbage so you don't have to to make myself angry on purpose. Total nothing to my senses, basically the O'Keefe person lays out a scheme for voter fraud and this Scott Foval guy sort of works out how the logistics of it might work, while never describing anything that's actually happened or planned (he also seems a little drunk). At the end of the video, they maybe approach someone about doing it (the editing is hard to follow) and he says effectively "no that seems like voter fraud." Even the calmer people on /r/the_donald don't see anything here.
    posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:32 PM on October 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


    Re the next oppo drop -- Trump has been doing an excellent job of destroying his campaign, but a drop either late this afternoon or tomorrow morning would keep the issue in the news until Wednesday night and would all but guarantee Trump lashing out in twitter and at the debate. Add more fuel to the fire Wednesday post debate and guarantee an early AM Trump twitfest and greatly increase the odds that trump will respond at Thursday's Al Smith Dinner. Thr dinner is already dangerous territory for Trump and a one-two from the debate and oppo drops is setting him up for a perfectly timed temper tantrum.
    posted by nathan_teske at 12:32 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Listening to Trump's rally right now, it occurs to me that if he didn't start with outright appeals to racism and xenophobia and cloaked it in a thin veneer of economic populism then he might have beaten Hillary.

    OMG, he's just down the road from me. I tuned in just in time for someone to shout SHE'S THE DEVIL.

    Another day of me side-eyeing my neighbors.
    posted by mochapickle at 12:34 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    CONWAY: You're going to Bangor.
    TRUMP: Sweet! Is she attractive?
    CONWAY: Bangor's the name of a city.
    TRUMP: Sad.
    [Fake]
    posted by under_petticoat_rule at 12:36 PM on October 18, 2016 [43 favorites]


    I'm going to be super pissed if the oppo drop turns out to be some bullshit like
    "Look into you heart: The oppo was inside you all along!"
    posted by Atom Eyes at 12:36 PM on October 18, 2016 [14 favorites]


    > "Listening to Trump's rally right now, it occurs to me that if he didn't start with outright appeals to racism and xenophobia and cloaked it in a thin veneer of economic populism then he might have beaten Hillary."

    It's been terrifyingly clear since September that if he were exactly the same utterly inexperienced policy-free nonsense-spouting pathological liar, but one with a bit more smarts and a lot more self-control, he might very well be ahead in the polls right now.
    posted by kyrademon at 12:37 PM on October 18, 2016 [18 favorites]


    if he didn't start with outright appeals to racism and xenophobia and cloaked it in a thin veneer of economic populism then he might have beaten Hillary.

    "Economic Populism" has been the narrative in the media anytime Trump's poll numbers start to surge, and I've noticed that in the debates, the subjects Trump is most willing to talk about (AKA the subjects he pivots to when asked whether he is a good role model for children or whether he ever sexually assaulted anyone) are economic populist talking points like "bringing our jobs back" and isolationist foreign policy. This is absolutely what Trump is going for, and if he were in any way a coherent and sane-sounding public speaker, he would be winning this election.
    posted by Sara C. at 12:37 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    jinx, kyrademon!
    posted by Sara C. at 12:37 PM on October 18, 2016


    via Laura Benanti: Did you catch Melania Trump with Anderson Cooper last night? I "wonder" if she'll have something to say on the The Late Show with Stephen Colbert tonight...
    posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:38 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    > "I'm going to be super pissed if the oppo drop turns out to be some bullshit like 'Look into you heart: The oppo was inside you all along!'"

    The oppo was FRIENDSHIP!
    posted by kyrademon at 12:38 PM on October 18, 2016 [35 favorites]


    I think a big story about this election will be that white men over 40 didn't show up to vote. The most reliable Republican block of voters will not turnout like they have in previous elections. Trump is just too toxic and too much of a loser.
    posted by humanfont at 12:39 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    I too can conjure unfavorable hypothetical scenarios
    posted by prize bull octorok at 12:39 PM on October 18, 2016 [10 favorites]


    Minstrel: [singing] When danger reared its ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled.
    Sir Maverick: I never did!
    Minstrel: [singing] Yes, brave Sir Maverick turned about, and valiantly, he chickened out.
    Sir Maverick: Oh, you liars!


    It's one of the enduring tragic mysteries of American political life that a man who very bravely did endure horrible, body-destroying torture over half a decade as a POW later became such a sniveling, cowardly hack in the face of torture apologists and then against a fascist strongman who went so far as to personally mock his time in captivity for the pure cruel joy of it.

    Don't get me wrong, I think McCain has revealed himself to be a horrible human being. But I do feel sorry for him and wonder where it all went wrong. Part of me thinks that the disgusting campaign waged against him in the 2000 primaries just broke his soul. I dunno.
    posted by tivalasvegas at 12:40 PM on October 18, 2016 [43 favorites]


    OMG, he's just down the road from me.

    He's back? Oh my god, he is too close. And he's going to win in Colorado Springs, so I wish he'd just go away. The rest of Colorado already sees us as an aberration, so I'm not sure how much of a state-wide influence he's going to have here.
    posted by bibliowench at 12:41 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Won't they be taping Colbert in about an hour from now?
    posted by cmfletcher at 12:41 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    1. I would for real like to fight AJ Delgado. Good chance she's bigger than me, but if righteous rage is any indicator, I would mess her up. And then give her the number of a good shrink.

    2. Texas doesn't need to turn true blue to mess up Republicans. A purple Texas is enough of a disaster: proves to latinx that it's possible, and forces the GOP to spend $$$ protecting their one remaining strong hold. If Texas looks like it could fall, they are FUCKED.
    posted by schadenfrau at 12:41 PM on October 18, 2016 [21 favorites]


    I think you're being real optimistic about my cohort, humanfont, and my personal observations don't bear out the idea that it's possible for Trump to be too toxic for many of them.
    posted by phearlez at 12:41 PM on October 18, 2016


    Trying to post with lynx. Text browsing works well...

    Seeing this got me to finally try the new eww web browser in emacs. Not bad.
    posted by kingless at 12:42 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    > "I'm going to be super pissed if the oppo drop turns out to be some bullshit like 'Look into you heart: The oppo was inside you all along!'"

    The oppo was FRIENDSHIP!


    FRIENDSHIP
    posted by Etrigan at 12:42 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    He's back? Oh my god, he is too close.

    I wish I had known. I would have freebased some dramamine and gone down to report.
    posted by mochapickle at 12:43 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Keith Olbermann: "Speaking to those who may vote for Trump..."
    Hey, the man lived in a Trump-branded building for years.
    posted by oneswellfoop at 12:44 PM on October 18, 2016


    I think the Clinton campaign needs a hilarious wacky mascot as the face of their oppo drops. My suggestion: Doctor Oppopus. I'll tell Jess next time she texts me to ask for money
    posted by prize bull octorok at 12:45 PM on October 18, 2016 [22 favorites]


    Don't get me wrong, I think McCain has revealed himself to be a horrible human being. But I do feel sorry for him and wonder where it all went wrong. Part of me thinks that the disgusting campaign waged against him in the 2000 primaries just broke his soul. I dunno.

    McCain has simply always been awful, before 2000 as well. Go read the Rolling Stone piece about him, it has plenty of pre-2000 material showing the various ways he's been a piece of shit. You can find plenty of scut about DC about the ways he's picked up a grudge and ridden it for as long as he could manage, no matter how petty. The best explanation for his better moments is a tie between "they're lies & spin" and "he's far sighted enough to see that he had to be better as a prisoner to be able to continue to be his awful self later in life."
    posted by phearlez at 12:45 PM on October 18, 2016 [11 favorites]


    While it's true I personally would be ... surprised if Texas ended up bluer than Iowa this time around, because the change has generally been a *lot* more gradual than that, the demographic potential for it to happen is, in fact, already in place. And this is quite a year.

    Yep.

    Texas has the second largest Latino population in the U.S. As of the 2010 Census, Latinos were 37.8% of the population in Texas with 45% of Texas residents having Latin ancestry. It's estimated that the state will become majority Latino by 2036 if not earlier. 44% of the state's Latinos are currently eligible to vote.

    In terms of numbers: Texas is home to 10.2 million Hispanics, 19 percent of the country’s Latino population. Excluding noncitizens and those under 18, about 5 million Texas Hispanics will be eligible to vote in the 2016 presidential election.

    The problem is turnout. For whatever reason, less than half of them have voted in the last two (2012 and 2014) elections. Latinos tend to vote Democrat. Increase their turnout on Election Day and the state would go Blue.
    posted by zarq at 12:46 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    Vogue has no history of political endorsements. Editors in chief have made their opinions known from time to time, but the magazine has never spoken in an election with a single voice. Given the profound stakes of this one, and the history that stands to be made, we feel that should change.

    Vogue endorses Hillary Clinton for president of the United States.
    Come for the endorsement, stay for the Annie Leibovitz portrait of Clinton circa 1993
    posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:48 PM on October 18, 2016 [58 favorites]


    I mean...I get that this is distasteful, but it's not like he had a choice about enduring torture.

    When McCain has had a choice...we get a Senator who makes fun of a child and lesbians in the same joke and we get torture apologia. He's disgusting.
    posted by schadenfrau at 12:49 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    'Look into you heart: The oppo was inside you all along!'

    The real oppo was the friends (.... or enemies?) we made along the way!

    Anyway, I too am impatient for this mythical "worse" oppo. Drop it if you got it already. I need there to be a Mortal Kombat-style FINISH HIM moment in this campaign. For my mental health.
    posted by yasaman at 12:50 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Re: Maine, LePage recently claimed he's sure there's voter rigging due to IDs not being required, which is hilarious because his administration bumblefucked our state ID system so badly they have to fix it soon or Mainers won't be able to board planes.
    posted by selfnoise at 12:52 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    I need there to be a Mortal Kombat-style FINISH HIM moment

    Hopefully--hopefully--that will be on November 8th.

    hang_in_there_kitten.png
    posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 12:53 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Filled out my absentee ballot last night and, while it felt good to fill in the little oval next to Clinton/Kaine, I think I derived the most pleasure in voting for Patty Judge. I know there's little chance of her winning but not only is she not Chuck Grassley, she's a damn fine person and a great candidate for the Senate. And voting against that kakwagon resonated deeply with my frustrations re the GOP-controlled Congress.
    posted by Fezboy! at 12:54 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    I'm not really counting on there being another Trump bombshell, but if they have one loaded, they might be keeping it in their pocket in case of another Wikileaks or whatever.
    posted by drezdn at 12:54 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Going back to Sunday night:

    Zach: John Oliver did a piece tonight on third party candidates. Stein and Johnson were legitimately savaged.

    One of the things Oliver did here is to mock Stein's folk-rock album. He suggests it sounds like the Indigo Girls backed by The Red Hot Chili Peppers. He's not wrong. Its really quite dreadful.

    I don't think that this is something that should be held against her in a political campaign. I realize Oliver was joking in calling it (if I recall) the most damning thing against her, but for me its one of the few things in her favor - not enough to vote for her, mind you, by a long shot.

    I value arts and I especially value arts in education. I think exposure to them makes a person better rounded, more empathetic, and shows discipline. I'm not saying the fact that President Bill was a saxophone player and Obama is a pretty good singer are the things that make them who they are, but they're a little part of who they are. Heck, Tim Kaine's harmonica playing (and Replacements fandom) is a thing for me. Whenever Clinton quotes a poem or book she loves, I swoon a little bit.

    The fact that Stein had the passion, talent and drive to record an album of songs is great. That she seems to be more of an Ed Wood than a Bjork is of secondary concern to me. I imagine that she would have arts-friendly policies and has some degree of empathy for her fellow humans.

    Anyhow, she'd still be a terrible president for about a dozen reasons and in a hypothetical strew-manesque two-way between her and Clinton, I'd still choose Clinton.

    That said, I'd love to see a playlist of favorite songs from each of the candidates. I suspect it would cement my belief that Tim Kaine might, in fact, be me. I've never seen he and I in the same place, so its possible.
    posted by Joey Michaels at 12:55 PM on October 18, 2016 [28 favorites]


    WaPo Donald Trump says the election is ‘rigged.’ Here’s what his supporters think that means
    Those in the audience said they get their information from a variety of sources, but the most commonly named outlets were Fox News, the Drudge Report and Rush Limbaugh's radio show. Many said they read much of their news online, following links posted by friends on Facebook or forwarded in emails. They criticized the rest of the media for writing or airing far more negative stories about Trump than Clinton. They frequently accused CNN of being pro-Democrat, even though the news network frequently features panels of Republicans and Democrats and currently employs Trump's former campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski.

    “I will not watch CNN in my house. I just believe that they are a sole Democratic station,” said Eric Wendt, 39, a Trump-supporting construction worker who watches Fox News, reads USA Today and gets a bulk of his news online. “A lot of my friends put stuff on Facebook, and I go on and read that stuff. ... The media should just leave everything alone. Republicans pretty much state the truth. I mean, Democrats with this stuff with Donald Trump and these women — this couldn't come up 20 years ago? He's a billionaire. And all of a sudden, four weeks before the election, all of this comes out?”[...]

    Janet Angus, 56, said media bias came up as she hosted a party at her home during the Packers game this weekend.

    “I had 10 CEOs of companies at my house in the kitchen. They're all voting for Trump, and they were all like: 'We need Sean Hannity to actually do the debate. Hillary has had her people already. We need Sean Hannity to be the moderator,' " said Angus, referring to the Fox News personality who does not consider himself a journalist and has been a cheerleader for Trump's candidacy. “You just want fair. You want fair and impartial. ... You want someone who is actually going to be a moderator.”
    Sean Hannity, "fair and impartial." This is my surprised sad and troubled face.
    posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:56 PM on October 18, 2016 [24 favorites]


    Donald Trump And His Supporters Are Actually Making Women Sick

    I spent last week being really angry. I spent yesterday in an hours-long panic attack. I left work shortly after noon after realizing that it wasn't going to get better and that I needed to lie down in a safe place. It's a 20-25 minute commute, but it took me 90 minutes to get home. I had to pull over twice because I was near hyperventilating and afraid of passing out.

    This election, Donald Trump, his supporters, ARE making me sick. My body is reacting. This article hit home for me, and I could have written every word of it.

    Thankfully, I had a previously scheduled appointment with my therapist this morning. Her counterpoints, which I can accept but I'm not sure I can assimilate, were that this election serves a net good because it's gotten us talking about sexism, racism, sexual assault. They're things we keep hidden, but now we're exposing them to light, and while it might be painful, it's also helpful, and it gets us closer to where we ought to be.

    I mean, I don't disagree, but I don't like that it feels so. intensely. personal.

    She also told me to "stop reading that website where you're getting your election news." I told her that part of the reason I'm staying up to date with these election threads is that there's comfort knowing that some people get it, and that there are people who feel the same way I do.

    She said "Yeah, I understand, but stop reading it for a while."

    And I guess I should. I've had this tab open since the thread started, and I think I'm finally going to close it.

    Stay sane, y'all.
    posted by mudpuppie at 12:57 PM on October 18, 2016 [105 favorites]


    That said, I'd love to see a playlist of favorite songs from each of the candidates. I suspect it would cement my belief that Tim Kaine might, in fact, be me. I've never seen he and I in the same place, so its possible.
    Wanna busk?
    posted by pxe2000 at 12:58 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    Those in the audience said they get their information from a variety of sources, but the most commonly named outlets were Fox News, the Drudge Report and Rush Limbaugh's radio show.

    I'm stunned at this unexpected revelation.
    posted by Gelatin at 12:58 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Jonah Goldberg, you magnificent bastard. This is my new quote for the election.
    "LBJ liked to say, “Let’s not step on our d**ks” on this or that issue. Trump is like one of those Italian barefoot peasant women who make wine by stomping on grapes all day, except instead of grapes it’s d**ks as far as the eye can see and Trump is wearing very expensive shoes."
    posted by corb at 12:59 PM on October 18, 2016 [54 favorites]


    While FiveThirtyEight's track record on percent probability is not very good, I'm still amused to look at its current state-by-state status.

    I'm not sure their percent probability is that bad. It's a fairly straight forward stacking of variance kind of problem that's made more difficult by having no true value you can directly compare to except on election day, and even that, is your error an error, or is it a skew? You don't know. You can't know. So at the end of the day you make a bunch of estimates and base your error predictions on that.
    posted by Kid Charlemagne at 12:59 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    That said, I'd love to see a playlist of favorite songs from each of the candidates. I suspect it would cement my belief that Tim Kaine might, in fact, be me. I've never seen he and I in the same place, so its possible.

    I'm picturing Trump, in his gold-plated private jet, stern look on his face, under some enormous noise-cancelling headphones, with a playlist of nothing but Haddaway's "What Is Love" on constant repeat.
    posted by Mayor West at 12:59 PM on October 18, 2016 [11 favorites]


    I'm with mudpuppie this election is making me very ill and making work especially difficult to deal with. 21 days 21 days.
    posted by tilde at 1:00 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    Hold on, Washington Post, while I put on my editor hat:

    I mean, Democrats with this stuff with Donald Trump and these women — this couldn't come up 20 years ago? He's a billionaire. And all of a sudden, four weeks before the election, all of this comes out?”

    INSERT: During the most recent presidential debate, Trump claimed that he had never acted inappropriately as he had described in a audio recording made public the previous week. Several of Trump's accusers told reporters that this claim prompted them to come forward.

    There, fixed.
    posted by Gelatin at 1:02 PM on October 18, 2016 [15 favorites]


    Metafilter: instead of grapes it's d**ks as far as the eye can see
    posted by delfin at 1:02 PM on October 18, 2016 [13 favorites]


    "I'm going to be super pissed if the oppo drop turns out to be some bullshit like 'Look into you heart: The oppo was inside you all along!'"
    The oppo was FRIENDSHIP!
    Just ask JEB.
    posted by tilde at 1:02 PM on October 18, 2016


    Scalzi: Reporting in from Trump country:
    I live in Darke county, Ohio. In 2004, Darke county voted for Bush, who got 69.5% of the vote. In 2008, it voted for McCain, who got 66.9% of the vote. In 2012, it voted for Romney, who got 71%.

    So you may not be surprised when I tell you the area in which I live is heavily tilted toward Trump in this election, and when November 8 rolls around, I expect him to win my county handily, likely gathering something like 70% of the vote.

    Do I live among idiots? No. I live among wonderful people who will clear your driveway when it snows and watch your pets when you go away, who love and care for their friends and families, who are decent people in their day-to-day lives and are folks I am proud to call neighbors. Most of them will vote differently than I do in this election. They do not live differently than I do. Our lives in Darke county are rather more in common than they are different.

    But they are voting for Trump! And he’s awful! Yes, he is; as I’ve noted before, he’s manifestly the worst major party presidential candidate in living memory. He’s also up against the second-least popular presidential candidate ever (after Trump himself), whom the GOP and their allies have spent decades denigrating, who even her supporters must realistically acknowledge is not overbrimming with public-facing charm, who has a raft of policy and social ideas that don’t play expansively well in a county that hasn’t sent a Democrat to Washington as its representative since the Great Depression.

    This isn’t to excuse Trump or the GOP.
    posted by palindromic at 1:03 PM on October 18, 2016 [15 favorites]


    Donald Trump is making people sick.

    It seems the last couple of months all I can see all day is a blue screen.
    posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:03 PM on October 18, 2016 [29 favorites]


    Jonah Goldberg, you magnificent bastard. This is my new quote for the election.

    I remember that guy. He's the one who wrote a book trying to claim that it's liberals who are the real fascists.

    How's that claim working out for you these days, Jonah?
    posted by Gelatin at 1:04 PM on October 18, 2016 [20 favorites]


    Texas’s Voter-Registration Laws Are Straight Out of the Jim Crow Playbook
    The problem with Latinx turnout in Texas is getting voters registered. This is a problem that money can fix. (Please read the link for the very specific to Texas issues that hiring a bunch of local people could solve.) My hope is that we are at least purplish enough to get the national party interested. If it weren't for our horrific laws, Texas would already be blue.
    posted by colt45 at 1:06 PM on October 18, 2016 [22 favorites]


    Darren Sands: A Member Of The Central Park Five Wants To Come To The Final Debate
    With the case back in the national conversation, Salaam said he’s worried specifically about how Trump’s political ascendance may retry the facts of the case. Salaam said he’s seen a lot of positive and negative response — most troubling to him, however, is the amount of people behind Trump who are distrustful in the facts of the case that exonerated the men in 2002.

    The assertion from former New York Mayor Rudy Guiliani’s that Trump has a “pretty solid basis” for saying the Central Park Five are still guilty stung Salaam. He said he was “very disgusted by it.”

    And Salaam disclosed that he and the others were considering taking legal action against Trump or Guiliani.

    “I’ve got to be honest are weighing the options available to us, but we haven’t reached any conclusions yet.”

    To him, the people who don’t believe their story have one thing in common. “I’m sure they’re Trump supporters,” Salaam said of the voters he’s seen on social media emboldened by Trump don’t believe he and the four others are actually innocent. “That’s the part that’s the scariest.” What’s clear, he said, is that “whether he loses or not, we’re still divided as a people and as a country.”
    posted by zombieflanders at 1:07 PM on October 18, 2016 [21 favorites]


    I mean...I get that this is distasteful, but it's not like he had a choice about enduring torture.

    Turns out yes, McCain really did make a gut-wrenching choice about facing torture or regaining his freedom. Because his father was a prominent admiral, the North Vietnamese offered to release him. The propaganda value is obvious. McCain turned down their offer of special favor in keeping with the Code of Conduct.

    The full context and meaning of that is not as simple as it sounds, since there's a lot to be said about the good faith (re: lack thereof) of the North Vietnamese, the mind-fuckery that would've been involved, and the question of McCain's agency. All that aside, we don't get to take anything away from McCain's courage as a POW no matter how wretched of a politician he is today.
    posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:07 PM on October 18, 2016 [52 favorites]


    It seems the last couple of months all I can see all day is a blue screen.

    Have you tried rebooting?
    posted by Archelaus at 1:08 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    I mean, Democrats with this stuff with Donald Trump and these women — this couldn't come up 20 years ago? He's a billionaire. And all of a sudden, four weeks before the election, all of this comes out?”

    Why would the Democrats have given a shit about him being a sexual assault kingpin 20 years ago? He wasn't running for public office, he was just some rich tabloids asshole. The national dialogue on sexual assault and harassment 20 years ago were also well different from today's, where even now people still say this kind of bullshit.
    posted by palindromic at 1:08 PM on October 18, 2016 [14 favorites]


    FiveThirtyHate: Meet The Trump Movement’s Post-Truth, Post-Math Anti-Nate Silver
    Seven months later, Bill Mitchell — or @mitchellvii, as he’s known on Twitter — has more than quadrupled his audience. Tweeting an average of 270 times per day, he has arguably become Donald Trump’s most unrelenting social media surrogate. Despite Trump’s leaked tax returns and sexual assault allegations, Mitchell isn’t just unwavering in his support, but increasingly certain of his candidate’s chances, gunslinging 140-character projections like this one into the world every few minutes: Trump has a 100% chance of winning in November.

    Mitchell has become this cycle’s mascot for a specific strain of poll-unskewing, conspiracy-theorist Trump supporter — earnest enough in his mistrust of modern electoral data and disdain for basic math that many have suspected @mitchellvii is perhaps a parody account. A few of his greatest hits:

    You notice how close Trump stands to this black man as he listens to him? No racist would ever do that.


    If you think about it, Hillary putting women into "baskets" may be one of the most sexist things ever said in a political campaign.

    Trump's groundgame isn't in a computer, it's in our hearts.

    Jesus was perfect and the media of his day had him crucified.
    posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:09 PM on October 18, 2016 [12 favorites]


    Boris Epshteyn is getting fucked on Jake Tapper. He's basically regurgitating conspiracy bullshit and Tapper is saying "where are you getting this Boris?" and Angela Rye just has an incredulous look on his face.
    posted by Talez at 1:11 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    So really the only question on the table, aside from down-ticket results, is whether or not there will be election-related violence, right?

    Can we have another "God Angrily Clarifies Do-Not Kill Rule" like preventive action on this shit? I'm tired of imagining what it would like to be a Trump supporter and be drunk or high on meth* and experiencing Trump's loss. It's like fucking Cormac McCarthy in my head with the violence. I like it in my fiction but really if all guns just vanished I would feel a lot less dread about the election.

    *Not all Trump supporters drink or use meth, natch.
    posted by angrycat at 1:12 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Mitchell is like the Trump version of PFTCommenter.
    posted by drezdn at 1:12 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Tweeting an average of 270 times per day

    Jesus fuck.
    posted by soren_lorensen at 1:13 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    *Not all Trump supporters drink or use meth, natch.

    I mean, I don't
    posted by beerperson at 1:13 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Libby Anne: Donald Trump’s Islamophobic Fear Mongering Is Disgusting:
    Who are the individuals pictured? In July 2015, Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez killed five at two military centers in Chattanooga. In December 2015, Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik opened fire at a company Christmas party; fourteen were killed. In June 2016, Omar Mateen opened fire in a gay night club in Orlando, killing 49 before he was shot and killed by police. In September 2016, bombs went off in New Jersey and New York City; dozens ere injured, but there were no fatalities. Police arrested Ahmed Khan Rahami. According to the FBI, none of these individuals were directly connected to ISIS; all were motivated by foreign terrorist groups, and generally radicalized online. All four of these individuals were either born in the U.S. or immigrated to the U.S. as young children.

    None of these cases occurred while Hillary Clinton held any elected or appointed government office. Trump’s argument appears to be that by not preventing the rise of ISIS (or otherwise ending global terror), Hillary allowed these attacks to happen. While Trump is welcome to take issue with Hillary’s tenure as Secretary of State from 2009 to 2013, I am more than skeptical of Trump’s claims that he can essentially snap his fingers and be rid of ISIS. Note what Trump is claiming—that he can defeat ISIS “once and for all.” That displays a fundamental lack of understanding of why groups like ISIS emerge and how they attract members. You can’t stamp these groups out with military alone—if you could, ISIS wouldn’t exist.

    But there’s another problem here.
    posted by palindromic at 1:14 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Lawrence Lessig On the wikileak-ed emails between Tanden and Podesta re: me (with regard to a hacked email from August 2015, when Lessig was raising money for his ill-fated campaign and Neera Tanden expressed a certain dislike for the man):
    I’m on my way from Iceland to my parents’ to see my dad, who’s not doing well. Landing in JFK, I found my inbox flooded with questions about the above. Here’s a single, and my only, response.

    I’m a big believer in leaks for the public interest. That’s why I support Snowden, and why I believe the President should pardon him.

    But I can’t for the life of me see the public good in a leak like this — at least one that reveals no crime or violation of any important public policy.

    We all deserve privacy. The burdens of public service are insane enough without the perpetual threat that every thought shared with a friend becomes Twitter fodder. Neera has only ever served in the public (and public interest) sector. Her work has always and only been devoted to advancing her vision of the public good. It is not right that she should bear the burden of this sort of breach.
    This is important. There's no whistleblowing in these emails, nobody saying "this is wrong" and believing that the public needs to be informed about something. These emails are simply stolen and reproduced regardless of their relevance to anything.
    posted by zachlipton at 1:16 PM on October 18, 2016 [113 favorites]


    The fact that Stein had the passion, talent and drive to record an album of songs is great. That she seems to be more of an Ed Wood than a Bjork is of secondary concern to me.

    Agreed, but I gotta say the bicycle song almost made me not want to bike anymore. I hadn't realized there was a point at which a person could be too sanctimonious about the virtues of bicycling, but Stein showed me it's possible.
    posted by asperity at 1:18 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Someone on FB whined that the debates were too focused on "bickering" and didn't let the candidates explain their policies and my head totally exploded because 1. Hillary explained several of her policies and 2. Trump doesn't actually have any policies but whatever. I really do blame Fox news and the allied rightish propaganda media for creating this post-reality world we now live in.
    posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:19 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Obama: Trump's 'Flattery' Of Putin Is 'Unprecedented'–And GOP Knows Better:
    Obama laid out his administration's approach to Russia and noted that he has tried to work with Russia and Putin on "common international challenges."

    The President said that in Syria, "rather than to work with us to try to solve the problem, [Putin] doubled down on his support for Assad, and we know the situation that exists there."

    "So any characterization that somehow we have improperly challenged Russian aggression or have somehow tried to encroach on their legitimate interests is just wrong," Obama said.

    He told reporters that he does not understand how "some of the same leaders of the Republican Party who were constantly haranguing us for even talking to the Russians and who consistently took the most hawkish approaches to Russia, including Mr. Trump's selection for vice president, now reconcile their endorsement of Mr. Trump with their previous views."
    posted by palindromic at 1:20 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    This is important. There's no whistleblowing in these emails, nobody saying "this is wrong" and believing that the public needs to be informed about something.

    Based on what I heard on the radio on the way home, both Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity are playing this up as the smoking-guns proving Hillary Clinton is so corrupt she can't be President. Informing their audience is all they got.
    posted by mikelieman at 1:22 PM on October 18, 2016


    You guys, how did we possibly miss the Evan McMulllen AMA?
    posted by corb at 1:22 PM on October 18, 2016 [11 favorites]


    Did someone say weaponized friendship was the real magic?
    posted by sotonohito at 1:22 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    The problem is turnout. For whatever reason, less than half of them have voted in the last two (2012 and 2014) elections. Latinos tend to vote Democrat. Increase their turnout on Election Day and the state would go Blue.

    Up until now I've relied mostly on anecdote in these threads to make the case that Latinos like me are going to turn out in this election, but as we get closer I'm seeing more and more data pointing in that direction. For instance:

    NALEO @NALEO
    .@LatinoDecisions and NALEO Educational Fund Poll reveals 78% of Latino registered voters are almost certain to vote in #Election2016

    As a point of reference, the Latino turnout rate was 49% in 2012.

    Relatedly, here's the top story at Univision: Political arm of La Raza takes a position on a campaign for the first time: asks for votes for Clinton

    For the first time in history, the political action committee (PAC) of La Raza announced their support of a presidential candidate. It is an announcement relevant to the Hispanic community, as the National Council of La Raza is the major civic organization defending the rights of this ethnic minority.

    The announcement is from it's political arm, the NCLR Action Fund, which is to say, the group which collects funds to support or oppose candidates, laws, or concrete political causes.

    The Hillary Clinton campaign stressed the importance of this gesture given the importance
    of Hispanic voters in the electorate. "Together, we'll reject the hateful rhetoric that has been directed at Latinos," says a statement distributed on the networks.

    posted by joedan at 1:22 PM on October 18, 2016 [22 favorites]


    I couldn't find any news reports of Trump getting himself stuck in an elevator again, so I am assuming his rally here today in Colorado Springs must've gone off uneventfully. I'm bummed that it's rewarding for him to come back here, but. I was out doing GOTV canvassing and it was so awesome. I finished my packet and got back to the field office feeling full of yay. People were so friendly and enthusiastic and I only had one really weird conversation about how Hillary is actually a "sexual pervert" herself and Yoko Ono alleges having an affair with her and I thanked her for her time and kept going. More people were home than I expected, so I got to have lots of conversations with people about making their plan for their ballot, which just felt awesome.
    posted by danielleh at 1:24 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Stein's 2016 campaign is like her folk albums an unlistenable, vanity project created by someone with more money than sense.
    posted by humanfont at 1:25 PM on October 18, 2016 [15 favorites]


    Trump just trotted out term limits which is like that thing where you're out of bullets and have to throw your pistol at the enemy. What other dull-ass conservative chestnuts from the 1990s are next?
    posted by selfnoise at 1:25 PM on October 18, 2016 [11 favorites]


    Someone on FB whined that the debates were too focused on "bickering" and didn't let the candidates explain their policies and my head totally exploded because 1. Hillary explained several of her policies and 2. Trump doesn't actually have any policies but whatever.

    One of my good friends complained to me about Clinton not having any policies, and I was gobsmacked. I was like, 'Dude, check her website, she has several hundred pages worth of fairly detailed policy proposals.' Then he asked if I could answer some specific policy question, and I was already feeling churlish from his lazy-ass engagement, and said something like 'I am not the President of Googling That For You, you are an attorney, you can handle reading some tedious shit for an hour.'

    Then he stuck with 'You couldn't even answer one question!' And I stuck with 'Didn't is different from 'couldn't', bro.'


    act like a bro, get called a bro, bro
    posted by palindromic at 1:25 PM on October 18, 2016 [89 favorites]


    Someone on FB whined that the debates were too focused on "bickering" and didn't let the candidates explain their policies and my head totally exploded because 1. Hillary explained several of her policies and 2. Trump doesn't actually have any policies but whatever. I really do blame Fox news and the allied rightish propaganda media for creating this post-reality world we now live in.

    Had Clinton not returned fire in kind, particularly at the second debate, everyone would be talking about how she's weak, unwilling to engage, "can't hold her own," etc. She was put in a pen with a pig and there's no way to avoid catching some mud splatter in that situation.

    And yes, she did talk about policy. In any other election, her suggestion to arm the Kurds would've been a jaw-dropper that would have had pundits babbling for days. I predicted on the night of the debate that it would likely catch very little attention, and so far it looks like I gave the media credit by offering even that much of a qualifier. I don't think I've heard about that one since the debate at all. She dropped a proposal that would have serious, far-reaching, complicated consequences and I don't think I've seen a single article about it.
    posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:25 PM on October 18, 2016 [22 favorites]


    From the AMA, on "differences between you and Trump":
    There are so many so it's hard to just name one...so I'll name a few...first of all, Donald Trump does not believe that all men and women are created equal and I do. Trump also admires authoritarians and dictators and I strongly oppose them. He also believe in a large, centralized federal government, whereas I believe power in Washington should be returned to the states and directly to the people. I've also accepted the fact that I am bald. ;-)
    posted by corb at 1:27 PM on October 18, 2016 [60 favorites]


    This is important. There's no whistleblowing in these emails, nobody saying "this is wrong" and believing that the public needs to be informed about something. These emails are simply stolen and reproduced regardless of their relevance to anything.

    Keepin it 1600 covered this a bit this week. Jon Lovett quite rightly said that if this is how we're going to roll from now on, we're all going to have to be a bit more okay with evidence of people just being people.

    But really I'd rather we not roll like this, because I can't see where it ends.
    posted by soren_lorensen at 1:27 PM on October 18, 2016 [10 favorites]


    In case anyone else was wondering, CSPAN will covering live the remarks of the candidates during Thursday's Al Smith dinner. Linked page also has videos from the 2008 and 2012 editions.
    posted by DanSachs at 1:28 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    > Metafilter: instead of grapes it's d**ks as far as the eye can see

    D**KS! Get your d**ks here.
    posted by farlukar at 1:30 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Tablet: What Will Become of Jared Kushner?, a longish profile of Kushner, focusing on his oversight of the Observer (where the author was a reporter) and his conduct as a NYC landlord.
    posted by zachlipton at 1:56 PM on October 18

    Thank you, I found that very interesting. I wonder how he and Chris Christie get along considering it was Christie who investigated Kushner's father and sent him to prison.



    Tweeting an average of 270 times per day

    Jesus fuck.

    posted by soren_lorensen at 4:13 PM

    Then there is this from the article: According to Mitchell, he’s averaging 40,000 retweets and 10 million Twitter impressions each day. How is this possible?
    posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:31 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    What other dull-ass conservative chestnuts from the 1990s are next?

    Contract on America.
    posted by tilde at 1:32 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Lawrence Lessig On the wikileak-ed emails between Tanden and Podesta re: me (with regard to a hacked email from August 2015, when Lessig was raising money for his ill-fated campaign and Neera Tanden expressed a certain dislike for the man)...

    Hail Larry, full of grace, the truth is with thee; blessed art thou among lawyers, and blessed is the fruit of your pen.
    posted by stolyarova at 1:32 PM on October 18, 2016 [10 favorites]


    Donald Trump doesn't deserve to attend a dinner for the tolerance and acceptance Governor. He should be disinvited.
    posted by xyzzy at 1:36 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    If you're scrolling past a tweet at a thousand pixels a second, that's an impression.

    Twitter is , shall we say, liberal with the term.
    posted by Yowser at 1:37 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I predicted on the night of the debate that it would likely catch very little attention, and so far it looks like I gave the media credit by offering even that much of a qualifier. I don't think I've heard about that one since the debate at all. She dropped a proposal that would have serious, far-reaching, complicated consequences and I don't think I've seen a single article about it.

    This is another thing Trump has ruined this season. We've always had a "light on policy, heavy on personality" coverage cycle during election seasons but this year, no matter how many specific policy things Clinton shares, they get drowned out in a sea of Grar.

    In her stump speeches, she talks policy. In the debates, she talks policy. When she is on TV, she almost always finds a chance to pivot back to policy. Policy is what Clinton is most interested in. Given the chance, she'd talk your ear off about it. What we seem to want as a society (because its sure what most of the media wants to give us) is bullshit reality tv bullshit (two bullshits are warranted here). Its much more fun to hear about Trump's latest Twitter meltdown than to read about Clinton's policy on, say, Mental Health care.

    Also, there are virtually no Trump policies beyond "everything will be awesome when you're part of the Trump team."

    I used to judge debate. One of the things that would drive me berserk is when a really prepared, polished debater would go up against somebody who clearly didn't even really understand the debate topic. You'd think the more prepared person would control the debate, but the sad reality is that the less experienced debater ended up setting the whole tone - the most more experienced person knew to go after the less prepared person's points, no matter how weak or invalid their points were, and thus the whole debate tended to center around the ignorance rather than the facts. Its a flaw in most debate systems - if a person is incapable of debating at a high level, the higher level debater needs to debate at the level the lower level debater is at or else they appear to be avoiding clash.

    Anyhow, as loathsome as Cruz is, a Clinton/Cruz debate would have been steeped in policy discussion. Cruz was a debater and lives for that shit. God, I hate Cruz so much - I've seen a dozen debaters like him over the years - smarmy, wormy, sniveling shits who think they're so smart and end up winning half the time because sometimes they really are so smart. Fuck those guys.

    I think I've wandered off topic.
    posted by Joey Michaels at 1:37 PM on October 18, 2016 [74 favorites]


    Way behind but:

    There are a few things that have stuck around because people forget the context or that we pretty recently didn't used to do them

    I'll have to explain to my daughter when she's old enough that we didn't used to sing "God Bless America" at baseball games and have people their take hats off for it like it it's the damn national anthem when it's not.

    The first time I saw anyone do that Queen Latifah was singing and I assumed everyone was just standing up and removing their hats to honor Queen Latifah.
    posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 1:38 PM on October 18, 2016 [34 favorites]


    > I'm not sure the U.S. took as much advantage as it could of having someone like that as head of state.

    This gets to me more and more as his duck gets lamer. Think what the country might be like if he hadn't had to deal with an insanely obstructionist Congress! Even as things are, I'd guess he's going to wind up ranked near the top, but really, what a waste.
    posted by languagehat at 1:41 PM on October 18, 2016 [30 favorites]


    You guys, how did we possibly miss the Evan McMulllen AMA?

    They scheduled it oddly. Apparently he had a tv segment to run to, so initially he was only online and answering for about half an hour. Four hours passed, but he came back a little while ago and has been slowly answering questions.

    His digital communications director is Sarah Rumpf. Her reddit name is "therumpfshaker." :)
    posted by zarq at 1:43 PM on October 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


    History will know the truth, (Assuming history isn't decreed a degenerate art and banned)
    posted by vbfg at 1:43 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    @mckaycoppins Trump's top S.C. adviser: "We have zero comment on any of the bimbo eruptions contrived by the Clinton campaign"

    "Tarts" yesterday, "bimbos" today. Women coming forward to tell about being sexually harassed by Donald Trump is deemed a "bimbo eruption." I'm glad they feel so comfortable being sexist pigs that they don't try and hide it.

    @alivitali Trump, who staked his primary success on polls: "Even though we're doing pretty good in the polls, I don't believe the polls anymore."

    Ah look, you got bimbos erupting all over your nice pretty campaign and now you are sinking like a stone. I'm sure you don't like the polls these days, too bad they reflect reality.
    posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:47 PM on October 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


    In other news, I'm really sick of hearing about Scott Adams, but it's only a Twitter exchange, so:

    congrats to Scott Adams for this incredible self-own
    posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:49 PM on October 18, 2016 [34 favorites]


    Jesus was perfect and the media of his day had him crucified.

    Yeah, This Week with Josephus of Judea really lit into Peter when he did the show on Palm Sunday. Plus The Jerusalem Pharisee-Advertiser came out pretty strongly for freeing Barabas in their Pesach double issue. And let's not even get into the hack job Moneychangers Live! did with that "Messiahs: Hot or Not?" segment.

    (On the other hand, Bob Schieffer was always pretty even-handed.)

    TL;DR: I can't even.
    posted by PlusDistance at 1:50 PM on October 18, 2016 [17 favorites]


    For all of my adult life, I've judged the character of otherwise decent seeming people on how they treat people who work in service positions. Because it doesn't matter how nice someone is to me if they think they're "better than." This election season, "She's the devil," is an instant dealbreaker. I work in a liberal enclave of an otherwise conservative industry, so it's not something I hear in real life much, but on social media it's immediate grounds for removing your posts from my sight. I like people who have critical thinking skills.
    posted by Ruki at 1:51 PM on October 18, 2016 [15 favorites]


    Someone asked - I think this was quite a while ago as the recollection is dim - whether anyone on MetaFilter had made a case for Donald Trump running for president. Found one, from a 2011 thread which itself has some interesting comments.
    posted by Wordshore at 1:52 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Do I live among idiots? No. I live among wonderful people who will clear your driveway when it snows and watch your pets when you go away, who love and care for their friends and families, who are decent people in their day-to-day lives and are folks I am proud to call neighbors. Most of them will vote differently than I do in this election. They do not live differently than I do.

    None of these behaviors that he describes disqualify his neighbors from being idiots. they might be nice, they might be helpful or any of the other of a laundry list of boy scout qualities that make them tolerable neighbors, and yet, yes, they still might be idiots. in fact, i'd be willing to state that yes, if they are voting for Trump at this late stage, they are.
    posted by OHenryPacey at 1:52 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    "Tarts" yesterday, "bimbos" today.

    Guiliani called them bimbos yesterday too (link somewhere way upthread). Consistency!
    posted by Rykey at 1:52 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Teaching Seventh Graders in a ‘Total Mess’ of an Election Season: “The campaign is ruining a lot of classes,” Mr. Wathke said. “You have kids saying, ‘We need to have a wall to keep Mexicans out.’ Well, what do you do if you have kids who are Mexican in the class?”
    posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:53 PM on October 18, 2016 [11 favorites]


    Turns out yes, McCain really did make a gut-wrenching choice about facing torture or regaining his freedom.

    Thanks for these links, scaryblackdeath. What happened to McCain was horrific. it also makes me think of Tim O'Brien's description of courage, but those thoughts aren't finished and are probably best left for another thread.
    posted by schadenfrau at 1:53 PM on October 18, 2016




    Dilbert sucked, Scott Adams has done nothing of note since then, and it would be pretty cool if the rest of him would just sorta collapse into the MRA hole in his ass that his head's disappeared into.
    posted by aspersioncast at 1:54 PM on October 18, 2016 [13 favorites]


    Yes, if I never heard anything else about Scott Adams ever again, it'd still be too much Scott Adams.
    posted by stolyarova at 1:57 PM on October 18, 2016 [28 favorites]


    OHenryPacey: None of these behaviors that he describes disqualify his neighbors from being idiots. they might be nice, they might be helpful or any of the other of a laundry list of boy scout qualities that make them tolerable neighbors, and yet, yes, they still might be idiots.

    I like to say "nice doesn't get the job done" when people talk about having nice co-workers who aren't terribly effective. In this case, nice doesn't save the country from a despot.
    posted by filthy light thief at 1:57 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    I remember that guy. He's the one who wrote a book trying to claim that it's liberals who are the real fascists.

    To Goldberg's credit, that is a nice barb. It might even be the highlight of his career.
    posted by octobersurprise at 1:58 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    First Skittles, then Tic-Tacs, and now Bimbo.

    WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST THE AMERICAN FOOD INDUSTRY DONALD
    posted by palindromic at 1:59 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]



    I'd also posit that being nice to people in your own community who are an awful lot like yourself is like the lowest "nice" bar to clear.
    posted by soren_lorensen at 2:00 PM on October 18, 2016 [27 favorites]


    Bimbo is originally a Mexican company, isn't it?
    posted by stolyarova at 2:01 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    aspersioncast: Dilbert sucked, Scott Adams has done nothing of note since then, and it would be pretty cool if the rest of him would just sorta collapse into the MRA hole in his ass that his head's disappeared into.

    I have a co-worker, who I assume is liberal like everyone in my little office, but he reads various print newspapers daily, and clips out some comics from time to time and posts them on his cubicle wall. He's clipped a number of Dilbert comics, and I'm tempted to ask him if he knows anything about Scott Adams, but I don't want to ruin something he enjoys if it's not doing any damage to anyone.
    posted by filthy light thief at 2:01 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    The New York Post noted that a man claiming to be the artist behind the Clinton statue was on the scene and gave his name as Anthony Scioli. The statue was removed by the artist by 7:30am after being ordered to do so by the NYPD. It wasn't there for very long.

    When reporters showed up at a West 35th Street address listed for Scioli, the man who lives there and identified himself as Mr. Scioli was not the same person. Scioli said he wasn't the artist. "His irate mom, though, angrily said the work was crafted by a pal of her son.“It was Danny!” she screamed. “It was Danny, his childhood friend who never grew up!”
    posted by zarq at 2:02 PM on October 18, 2016 [17 favorites]


    Pardon if this is a stupid question, but regarding Trump's nutty video and the on-going "lock her up" rhetoric, what specifically are they alleging that Hillary's "very high crimes" are? Treason? Perjury? Destruction of evidence? People just seem to say she's guilty as hell and a criminal but I can never get a handle on which crime she's guilty of. Guilty of being a woman with ambition, I suspect, but feel free to correct me if I'm missing something.

    No, you're not missing anything.
    In a way, it's a rhetorical masterpiece, and I grudgingly have to say a small part of me admires what Trump is doing here: By never even stating what exactly the crime is supposed to be, he creates a non-refutable accusation.

    All that shadow-boxing with emails and Benghazi and Wikileaks and so on was just a bother anyway. Why not skip those pesky little details and draw a straight line from accusation to sentencing (jail)? Of course, after jailing Hillary, the next step will be purging the FBI, then the Supreme Court, and so on.

    It's Orwellian and Kafkaesque. And at the same time it should serve as a warning to everyone still considering to vote for Trump. If you let him and those still supporting him win, you too could wind up in jail without a trial one day.

    The logical conclusion is big government taken to the extreme, and thus the exact opposite of what Republicans are supposed to stand for. And it's closer to what life used to be like in the Soviet Union than what it still is in the US. Republican elected officials who still don't get that and still support that monster out of party loyalty are pathetic.
    posted by sour cream at 2:02 PM on October 18, 2016 [19 favorites]


    Ah, NPR! I caught a promo for its "Divided States of America" segments -- which in my perception hasn't been divided at all, but has been 100% profiles of Trump supporters -- and the audio clip was of a woman wondering aloud why Trump's accusers waited so long to come forward, and indicating that she doubted their story for that reason at least.

    Memo to NPR: The reason these women waited is a matter of record. Never before was Trump ensnared in this kind of sex scandal (public extramarital affairs aside), and again, Anderson Cooper got Trump to specifically deny the very behavior so many women (many of whom did report the assaults concurrently, if not taking them public) experienced.

    No doubt this woman and the Trump supporter quoted by the WaPo above are getting talking points from whatever right-wing media they consume, which is why it doesn't stand to a moment's scrutiny.

    This audio clip does not belong on the air. Not as part of her interview, and especially not as a teaser, where it exposes your audience to an obviously false talking point as if it's an honest point worthy of consideration. Shame on you for giving cover to a false defense that makes obvious why assault victims are reluctant to come forward.
    posted by Gelatin at 2:03 PM on October 18, 2016 [27 favorites]


    Don't get me wrong, I think McCain has revealed himself to be a horrible human being. But I do feel sorry for him and wonder where it all went wrong. Part of me thinks that the disgusting campaign waged against him in the 2000 primaries just broke his soul. I dunno.

    Yeah, 2000 taught him that if you stand on principle, you also get to stand in line for the bus home.
    posted by robocop is bleeding at 2:04 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    > "Did someone say weaponized friendship was the real magic?"

    I see your weaponized friendship and raise. (NSFW language but SFW images)
    posted by kyrademon at 2:05 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    soren_lorensen: I'd also posit that being nice to people in your own community who are an awful lot like yourself is like the lowest "nice" bar to clear.

    There's a guy who got into a shouting match with my mother-in-law because he didn't pick his dog's poop up from the public dirt strip by the sidewalk (we live in a high desert, so there's not much vegetation in these strips of land). He said this was public land and not hers, so he could let his dog poop on it if he wanted, and because she had the nerve to say something to him, he would bring his dog to shit right there every day.

    Yeah, being a decent human being to your neighbors is a pretty low bar, but still some people fail to pass that test.
    posted by filthy light thief at 2:06 PM on October 18, 2016 [10 favorites]


    Apparently the latest Okeefe nothing burger has some DNC staffers talking about busing in voters or something. These "killer scoops" all have the same premise - Okeefe talks to some low level staffers and proposes a wildly immoral hypothetical, which the staffers then stupidly entertain and talk about, giving Okeefe the raw footage to doctor to his liking. He only has one dishonest trick, and it's a stupid trick.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 2:07 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    From the McMullin AMA:
    The trouble with the minimum wage is that while it helps the employees who keep their jobs, it hurts those who lose their jobs or are never hired because an employer cut back hiring. Entry level jobs are absolutely essential to help people out of poverty, but there's a point where a minimum wage is a disincentive to hiring, and all too often the detrimental impact is in poorer neighborhoods that need new jobs the most. Expanding the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) would encourage hiring instead of making labor more expensive. Currently, the EITC is structured as a tax refund, so the money generally isn't available until someone has been working for more than a year, so I'd propose changing the tax refunds into wage supplements instead. That creates a stronger incentive to work, because the benefit rises with each hour spent on the job.
    Link

    This is interesting to me. Does anybody have a good source of info on this approach?
    posted by birdheist at 2:12 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Apparently the latest Okeefe nothing burger has some DNC staffers talking about busing in voters or something. These "killer scoops" all have the same premise - Okeefe talks to some low level staffers and proposes a wildly immoral hypothetical, which the staffers then stupidly entertain and talk about, giving Okeefe the raw footage to doctor to his liking. He only has one dishonest trick, and it's a stupid trick.

    This one even features a guy outright telling O'Keefe's person that what they propose is illegal. The only thing O'Keefe has revealed is that low level staffers who are having conversations with people who they think are potential big donors are unlikely to outright say "get the hell out here" as long as the donors conform to some reasonable standard of behavior (and if they do throw O'Keefe's person out, that's not going to be on the tape). The rest is editing.
    posted by zachlipton at 2:12 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Gelatin: Ah, NPR! I caught a promo for its "Divided States of America" segments -- which in my perception hasn't been divided at all, but has been 100% profiles of Trump supporters

    I haven't heard their segments in a few weeks, but in the past, they had folks from Georgia and Arizona, and in both sets they had two Republicans and two Democrats, two (primary) men and women each (sometimes it was couples, but one person would speak more, so I assumed they went for some general gender balance, too). I was shouting at the Arizona Republicans because they were both infuriatingly pro-Trump for the thinnest of reasons, while the Dems said things that made me pump my fist, while driving to work. (The links are to the two post-debate discussions, and I think only three of the four Georgians could make it for the follow-up, while all four Arizonians were there).
    posted by filthy light thief at 2:12 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Trumpkins want equal time on Hillary scandals to Trump scandals.
    posted by Talez at 2:15 PM on October 18, 2016



    In case anyone else was wondering, CSPAN will be covering live the remarks of the candidates during Thursday's Al Smith dinner. Linked page also has videos from the 2008 and 2012 editions.


    I just had a quick look at the 2008 McCain segment - in it, he says, following remarks about how much history Obama had already made, 'today is a world away from the cruel and frightful bigotry of [the racist past], and good riddance. I cannot wish my opponent luck, but I do wish him well' (around 17:10s).

    I wonder if he would say any part of that today. I know Trump will not.
    posted by Devonian at 2:16 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    This is interesting to me. Does anybody have a good source of info on this approach?

    Intelligence Squared held a debate this past February regarding abolishing the minimum wage, between James Dorn (Cato Institute VP for Academic Affairs and Editor of the Cato Journal) and Russ Roberts (research fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution and host of EconTalk podcast) on one side, vs., Jared Bernstein (Former Chief Economist to VP Biden and senior fellow at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities) and Karen Kornbluh (Former US Ambassador, Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development) on the other. The EITC was brought up and discussed. There's a transcript available at the page.
    posted by zarq at 2:21 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Currently, the EITC is structured as a tax refund, so the money generally isn't available until someone has been working for more than a year, so I'd propose changing the tax refunds into wage supplements instead. That creates a stronger incentive to work, because the benefit rises with each hour spent on the job.
    This is interesting to me. Does anybody have a good source of info on this approach?


    Evan McMullin's page on Poverty has a bit more, but not much:
    To provide a stronger incentive to work, there should be immediate benefits for those who have jobs. This can happen by transitioning from tax refunds to wage supplements, which add money to every paycheck, starting from day one. Wage supplements also create a strong incentive to spend more time at work, since the benefit rises with each hour spent on the job.

    By adding to the paychecks of low-income workers, EITC and wage supplements accomplish the same goal as an increase in the minimum wage, but without reducing the number of jobs available or punishing job creators.
    Then it gets into why increased minimum wage would kill low-wage jobs. (Response: Department of Labor's Minimum Wage Mythbusters; seem more: Journalist's Resource - Minimum wage: Updated research roundup on the effects of increasing pay)
    posted by filthy light thief at 2:21 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    You guys, how did we possibly miss the Evan McMulllen AMA?
    Do you think the Republicans blockade of Merrick Garland is appropriate?

    Evan McMullin • 28m
    I do think that it is fair to block Judge Garland’s nomination. The Senate has the power of consent on all Supreme Court nominations, and are not obligated to approve. This close to an election, they are within their right to say that they will defer to the nominating power of the next president. Unfortunately, neither of the two major party candidates is likely to nominate a true originalist, which I would like to see. Even though Donald Trump has promised to nominate a conservative judge, he’s broken just about every promise he’s made. And of course, we know the kinds of justices Hillary Clinton will nominate.
    It's fair to reject Garland or confirm him because he's not originalist enough. Or even Because Obama, if you'll own that. But if you're on board with this new pulled-out-of-someone's-nose "norm" where the entire last year of an opposition presidency is somehow lame-duck territory, you forfeit any right to present you're some kind of antidote to what the political process is currently offering.

    Remember, Trump didn't happen in a vacuum. He's a natural outgrowth of a lot of stuff that the Republican party has been sowing for decades, and that's directly tied up with the recent refusal to have confirmation hearings and votes.
    posted by wildblueyonder at 2:22 PM on October 18, 2016 [87 favorites]


    This is interesting to me. Does anybody have a good source of info on this approach?

    Probably too much of a derail to talk about at length here, but it seems like that approach would artificially reduce labor costs for business owners (who, let's face it, would just reduce wages to meet the wage supplementation their employees were getting) and reward their cheapness at public taxpayers' expense. I guess that could be mostly addressed by also raising taxes on higher brackets to make up the revenue drain ...

    In any case, it's a policy that people can argue about and disagree on, rather than a crime against humanity enshrined as a party platform. So it's an improvement.
    posted by penduluum at 2:23 PM on October 18, 2016 [23 favorites]


    This is interesting to me. Does anybody have a good source of info on this approach?

    EITC sort of used to work this way, in that a qualified recipient could receive it from their employer as a form of "negative withholding." Instead of the employer taking out federal income tax, the employer would pay out extra funds so EITC would be spread throughout the year. It was called the Earned Income Credit Advance Payment. It seems that this wasn't particularly popular, and I understand it was a big magnet for fraud, because it was basically a way to get paid government money throughout the year and only settle up much later at tax time. As noted here:
    As many as 80 percent of AEITC recipients did not comply with at least one of the program requirements GAO reviewed, and some were noncompliant with more than one during the 3 years we reviewed.

    Almost 40 percent (about 200,000 recipients) did not file the required tax return; these individuals received $42 million to $50 million each year.

    Of the about 60 percent (more than 300,000) AEITC recipients who did file a return, about two-thirds misreported the amount received.
    So it required a whole bunch of paperwork to setup, employers had to deal with it, and it resulted in paying out a significant amount of money to people who never filed tax returns later or properly accounted for the money they got. They kept adding more controls on the program to prevent fraud, and AETIC was scrapped in 2011.

    Wage supplements are generally sort of an administrative mess, as this example shows. They take a whole ton of paperwork, and rely on handing out money and then later getting someone's tax return to ensure they got the right amount of money, asking for the difference back if needed (see also: Obamacare subsidies, which pose a similar problem, but at least there they money is paid directly to insurance companies). Maybe there's a better way to run such a program, but it's not particularly straightforward.

    Aside from all that, there's the issue that such a supplements is really a further subsidy to low-wage employers, since, say, Walmart benefits by paying its workers a wage lower than what they need to pay expenses and having the government make up the difference.
    posted by zachlipton at 2:26 PM on October 18, 2016 [19 favorites]


    I will also refrain from saying anything nasty about the Dallas Cowboys for 10 full minutes.

    As a Houstonian, I beg you to say ALL the nasty things you can about the Dallas Cowboys and hell, Dallas in general.

    I've been a Blue Texas truther for a long time. I wish there had been more voter registration efforts from Democrats here, but voter registration is at an all-time high for the state.

    And honestly, I have really gotten the sense personally and from hearing other reports that Texas Republicans are just not enthused about Trump. So I think this election is the kind of election that COULD make Texas turn blue, if Republican voter turnout is low due to lack of enthusiasm and Democratic turnout is record high due to Latinx involvement.

    The 2008 presidential election had really high turnout, nearly 60% of registered voters, and McCain only won by 8%. 2012 looked a lot worse for Democrats but turnout was only about 40% of RV.

    Ultimately, I think Trump will take the state, but not by very much. I think a real GOTV effort by Democrats could have made/could still make a difference.
    posted by threeturtles at 2:30 PM on October 18, 2016 [10 favorites]


    McMuffin is much more compelling as an abstract breakfast food than talking about his actual policies. It's like he's a Heritage white paper that magically became a real sandwich boy.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 2:32 PM on October 18, 2016 [39 favorites]


    The Rude Pundit: Melania Trump: Narcissist Wife Defends Narcissist Husband in the Most Narcissistic Way Possible:
    I sat down last night in front of the big-screen at Chez Rude with a tumbler of bourbon to enjoy snow-capped wood nymph Anderson Cooper's interview with Melania Trump, the wife of Republican nominee for president and flaming rage pig Donald Trump. Perhaps I would learn something. Perhaps it would give me an excuse to have several tumblers of bourbon. Instead, what you could glean from the interview was that powder is your friend when you're under bright lights and that Ms. Trump is as much of a narcissistic trash heap as her husband. In fact, she is everything that her husband is, except with proportionately longer fingers and possibly less inclination to maul women.

    Let's see if we can count up the hypocrisies, lies, bullshit, and self-promotion that came out of the half-hour we all got to spend in the Trumps' fucking ugly Manhattan penthouse.

    1. Melania Trump has no problem attacking the women who have accused her husband of unwanted advances and sexual assault. "This was all organized from the opposition and with the details that they go -- did they ever -- did they ever check the background of these women? They don't have any facts," Trump said, and that's pretty much exactly what the Trump campaign has accused Hillary Clinton of doing when it comes to the women who allege things about her husband. The big difference? If Clinton did try to disparage them, she never fucking did it in an interview or public forum.
    posted by palindromic at 2:33 PM on October 18, 2016 [24 favorites]


    Honest question: what is there to distinguish Egg from Romney at this point? I don't mean on religion, and obviously lack of experience in government doesn't help, but on policy. I mean, Romney sounds pretty darn good right now compared to the Cheeto, but isn't this effort just sort of 2012 all over again?
    posted by zachlipton at 2:35 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Regarding this election and mental health: I leave tomorrow morning for a 4-day conference that my company is hosting, and the attendees are probably 75-85% conservative (and in commercial real estate, at that). I've been dreading it ever since I realized the timing, because keeping my employment secure will require some tongue-biting and smiling-and-nodding and "Oh! I'm sorry I just realized I need to walk away right now" moments. And I'm a pretty outspoken person who struggles with keeping quiet when outrageous things are said. But I did just realize the silver lining: I'll be working 12-16 hour days and will physically be unable to keep up with the MeFi election threads.

    Godspeed, my friends. See you next week.
    posted by misskaz at 2:35 PM on October 18, 2016 [54 favorites]


    I am glad to see that the novelty shine of Egg is starting to wear off now that some of his policies and positions are being discussed. he's still pretty hardcore republican, for all that he's not trump. I'd much rather Hillary just win Utah outright, remote as that possibility might be.
    posted by OHenryPacey at 2:40 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    I mean, Romney sounds pretty darn good right now compared to the Cheeto, but isn't this effort just sort of 2012 all over again?

    Hurray, Overton Window!

    They said at the Republican National Committee.
    posted by indubitable at 2:43 PM on October 18, 2016 [11 favorites]


    I mean, Romney sounds pretty darn good right now compared to the Cheeto, but isn't this effort just sort of 2012 all over again?

    Romney was wrong but he was wrong within normal parameters.

    Trump is out and out batshit insane and trying to take down the political system with his attempt.
    posted by Talez at 2:46 PM on October 18, 2016 [21 favorites]


    And back in we go. I know Colorado Springs started throwing O'Keefe into the set list. Let's see what Donald brings up.
    posted by Talez at 2:47 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    One interesting new thing from Trump as part of his 11th hour "hey maybe we should talk about ethics or something for two sentences at a time?" push is that he called for a Constitutional amendment for Congressional term limits, though he didn't say how long those limits should be.

    There are good arguments for and against, but I can't imagine this will go over well with Congress.
    posted by zachlipton at 2:49 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    We have zero comment on any of the bimbo eruptions contrived by the Clinton campaign

    "Bimbo eruptions" was coined by Betsey Wright, deputy chair of the 1992 Clinton presidential campaign, to refer to Bill Clinton's alleged encounters with women.
    posted by kirkaracha at 2:50 PM on October 18, 2016 [12 favorites]


    One interesting new thing from Trump as part of his 11th hour "hey maybe we should talk about ethics or something for two sentences at a time?" push is that he called for a Constitutional amendment for Congressional term limits, though he didn't say how long those limits should be.

    Yeah. He's calling it "Drain the Swamp". More bragging, no substance. Populism at its finest!
    posted by Talez at 2:51 PM on October 18, 2016


    Don't congressional term limits have to be a legislative thing that goes through the committee process in both houses and then be approved by both houses? It's not the kind of thing Trump could decree by fiat. At best he's saying he wouldn't veto it. But, like, who would?

    Praying for "How does a bill become a law?" to be one of the debate questions tomorrow.
    posted by Sara C. at 2:51 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    Oh wait, terrible reading comprehension. He wants a constitutional amendment. Which... would be even harder for a sitting President than influencing unpopular legislation?
    posted by Sara C. at 2:52 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    "We got a McMuffin sighting!"
    posted by Artw at 2:53 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    The O'Keefe videos are NOT low-level staffers. They involve experienced Dem operatives, one of whom has apparently been fired already. I have a bad feeling about this.
    posted by Biblio at 2:54 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    yeah this could be as bad as yesterday's FBI quid pro quo thing that totally turned out to be a huge deal
    posted by prize bull octorok at 2:56 PM on October 18, 2016 [21 favorites]


    You know that saying "when you're up to your ass in alligators, sometimes you forget that your initial objective was to drain the swamp?" Trump has twisted it around: he's now up to his ass in alligators, and he's trying to desperately distract us from that fact by claiming he waded in with the intention of draining the swamp all along.

    He'd also like us to forget that his only tool to drain the swamp is a kid's beach pail with holes in it, most of the water he bails flows right back into the swamp, and his attention span is so short that he keeps forgetting to bail water while he goes on long rants about vast conspiracies to add more alligators.
    posted by zachlipton at 2:56 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]




    yeah this could be as bad as yesterday's FBI quid pro quo thing that totally turned out to be a huge deal

    I mean, perhaps not a huge deal, but it's sort of a thing. The post has an interview with Brian McCauley, the retired FBI official who made the request, though it was ultimately never granted. It involved a Benghazi-related email, which just makes it that much worse.

    I'm not personally worked up over it, especially because it seems like everyone involved did the right thing in the end, nor does it actually involve Clinton, but it's kind of a messy situation.
    posted by zachlipton at 3:00 PM on October 18, 2016


    The O'Keefe videos are NOT low-level staffers.

    Doesn't really matter who it is, it's the same schitck as always. Present hypotheticals until someone takes the bait, then act like the hypothetical is what's actually occurring. Presto - a Democratic scandal!
    posted by T.D. Strange at 3:00 PM on October 18, 2016 [12 favorites]


    everyone involved did the right thing

    nor does it actually involve Clinton

    but it's kind of a messy situation


    well I know what we're engraving on the Clinton Scandal Monument
    posted by prize bull octorok at 3:04 PM on October 18, 2016 [83 favorites]


    What McMullin misses with his analysis of the Supreme Court situation is that the Senate's role in this isn't the thing we're really discussing.

    What we're discussing is the violation of institution-preserving norms.

    A norm in United States politics is that if the President nominates a qualified, non-extremist judge, the Senate is obliged to vote on, if not confirm, that nominee. This isn't what the Constitution says. It's what we've decided to do because we've collectively realized that it cannot possibly be the case that the Supreme Court can only fill a vacancy in the minority of years where the Senate and the Presidency are occupied by the same party. The institution of the judicial branch would simply fall apart if this were the rule in place.

    We've had other institution-preserving norms, like the routine passing of the debt ceiling raises with only token opposition by the minority party. The full faith and credit of the United States is not a rational bargaining chip because it implies that only one party is interested in maintaining it, so everyone should recognize that it is pure hostage-taking to meaningfully refuse to pass a debt ceiling increase.

    Republicans have realized that you can just start shitting on norms and, thanks to increased media polarization, no one faults you for it other than the people who already hate you. They've taken the debt ceiling hostage, they've crippled the Supreme Court, and who knows what else they're going to break.

    McMullin, or anyone else who wants to be taken seriously as a Third Way / Reasonable Conservative / Not A Terrorist figure, needs to call out the breaking of long-held norms as the thing being questioned by the nomination hold-up. You can't just say "Well the rules don't exactly require that you vote" and thread some imaginary needle. It's dangerous behavior and it needs recognition as such.
    posted by 0xFCAF at 3:04 PM on October 18, 2016 [70 favorites]


    Trump can't think of any other black cities after St Louis, Chicago and Philadelphia.
    posted by Talez at 3:07 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    By now you really think that every liberal and Democratic organization in the country would have a big picture of Jimmy O'Keefe in their offices with instructions to THROW THIS MAN OUT.
    posted by octobersurprise at 3:08 PM on October 18, 2016 [24 favorites]


    I don't know if I'm having a stroke or if Trump's rambling is mostly incoherent.
    posted by Talez at 3:11 PM on October 18, 2016


    Honest question: what is there to distinguish Egg from Romney at this point?

    Updated firmware.
    posted by entropicamericana at 3:12 PM on October 18, 2016 [38 favorites]


    So Trump's plan is six years for the House and twelve years for the Senate.
    posted by Talez at 3:13 PM on October 18, 2016


    Trump can't think of any other black cities after St Louis, Chicago and Philadelphia.

    All cities that are less than 50% black, of course.
    posted by tonycpsu at 3:14 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Oh wait, terrible reading comprehension. He wants a constitutional amendment. Which... would be even harder for a sitting President than influencing unpopular legislation?

    Theoretically, if he could influence ⅔ of state legislatures, they could call for an Article V convention. According to Wikipedia,
    The language of Article V leaves no discretion to Congress, merely stating that Congress "shall" call a convention when the proper number of state applications have been received. Comments made at the time the Constitution was adopted indicate that it was understood when the Constitution was drafted that Congress would have no discretion. In The Federalist, Alexander Hamilton stated that when the proper number of applications had been received, Congress was "obliged" to call a convention and that "nothing is left to the discretion of Congress." James Madison also affirmed Hamilton's contention that Congress was obligated to call a convention when the requisite number of states requested it. In the North Carolina debates about ratifying the Constitution, James Iredell, who subsequently became one of the founding members of the Supreme Court, stated that when two-thirds of states have applied to Congress for a convention, Congress is "under the necessity of convening one" and that they have "no option."
    It's never happened before, so yes, presumably even harder, but... 2016.
    posted by XMLicious at 3:15 PM on October 18, 2016


    Trump can't think of any other black cities after St Louis, Chicago and Philadelphia.

    Please, please tell me he said that at a rally in Detroit or Atlanta.
    posted by FelliniBlank at 3:15 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    I have a bad feeling about this.

    No offense, but I stopped considering people's proclamations of personal panic levels as some kind of accurate barometer of election trends around the time of the GOP Convention, when some of my dear fellow MeFites were starting to freak out about the possibility that Melania Trump's plagiarism of Michelle Obama would somehow come back to bite Hillary in the ass.
    posted by Atom Eyes at 3:17 PM on October 18, 2016 [19 favorites]


    What the fuck do you need? Aziz Ansari to millennials.
    posted by Sophie1 at 3:22 PM on October 18, 2016 [32 favorites]


    well I know what we're engraving on the Clinton Scandal Monument

    Yes, absolutely. My point is that, for both political and good government reasons, it would kind of be nice if the FBI and the State Department didn't discuss linking together the classification status of a Benghazi-related email and having FBI agents stationed in Baghdad. Since they merely talked about it, it falls into the category of "don't talk like that" rather than anything else, but that's the extent of the "scandal" to me.
    posted by zachlipton at 3:23 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Trump is bringing Obama's half-brother to the debate, @KatyTurNBC reports (via Bradd Jaffy)

    What the fuck?
    posted by yasaman at 3:27 PM on October 18, 2016 [18 favorites]


    Around here, the employers would just work that credit, by hiring their own teenage children or family, and let the government pay their wages. That is exactly what would happen. Suddenly family cowhands who had never been paid, would be "paid" and the ranch owners would pay their lost boys or family hands with government handouts, and then still complain about the government. I used to work in Utah for one dollar per hour.
    posted by Oyéah at 3:28 PM on October 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


    No offense, but I stopped considering people's proclamations of personal panic levels as some kind of accurate barometer of election trends

    The JCPL: Accept no substitutes!

    It has been flatlined for some time. I hope this continues through election day.
    posted by Justinian at 3:29 PM on October 18, 2016 [28 favorites]


    Term limits: Because we do not want our employees to have any experience actually doing their job.

    or

    Term limits: Because we admit our system is so broken that people can't vote out a representative who isn't doing a good job, but we can't be arsed to fix the actual problem, just the symptom.
    posted by entropicamericana at 3:29 PM on October 18, 2016 [19 favorites]


    What the fuck?

    There's a rumor going around Danney Williams is going to be in Las Vegas too.
    posted by Talez at 3:30 PM on October 18, 2016


    Imagine Where We'd Be If Trump Didn't Go Bananas Every Night.
    People who are confused as to how the party of moral values and Jesus militants came to this have forgotten their William James. "Piety is the mask," James wrote. "The inner force is tribal instinct."

    ...

    Trump had an animal instinct for the main chance here. Now, though, he's caught between what the Republican party is and what it pretends to be. That's why you see conservative pundits and various radio spittle-bags running for the hills. They have to re-establish in the public mind what the Republican Party pretends to be—the long con that's worked for them for almost 40 years. That's also why you see so many members of the elite political press grasping for any opportunity to ignore or minimize what is plainly in front of their face. The problem is that, every day and every night, the Republican candidate for president goes bananas again.

    But, more importantly, what he is doing now is running a presidential campaign as nothing less than an incitement to riot. The people to whom he's pitching this noxious swill will believe it. Hell, they'll believe anything. Every event has several luckless reporters who have to go out and talk to Trump supporters and, now, at almost every rally, there are at least two people willing to talk about taking up arms if the election doesn't turn out the way they want it to turn out.

    This gets out into the public, day after day, because the Trump campaign wants it to get out, day after day. The campaign's charges are getting angrier and wilder. Shiny new Jim Crow laws are in place, and even where they're being struck down, local officials are slow-playing court orders or ignoring them altogether. Racism and economic disenfranchisement are all balled up together in a way they haven't been since Reconstruction, when, as Alexander Keyssar points out in his magisterial work on voting rights, "The resistance to black voting was rooted in class conflict as well as racial antagonism."

    The tactic of setting the economically alienated against each other is the oldest and longest con in the playbook of American oligarchy. It would be even more virulent today if the Republican nominee weren't so transparently off his trolley. But it is still there in everything he says, and especially when he tries to delegitimize the election it looks very much like he's going to lose, pinning the blame on the poor and the immigrants for the purpose of inflaming white voters who have more in common with the poor and the immigrants than with a vulgar talking yam who craps in a solid-gold commode.

    So the Republican nominee went to Green Bay on Monday and pretty much went bananas again. A good portion of the country, God help us, seems willing to meet him halfway.
    posted by homunculus at 3:32 PM on October 18, 2016 [30 favorites]


    What the fuck is right.

    What the fuck
    posted by mazola at 3:32 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    >Term limits: Because we do not want our employees to have any experience actually doing their job.

    Well, in fairness, experience would be kind of a silly thing for Trump to insist on.
    posted by Sing Or Swim at 3:33 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Trump is bringing Obama's half-brother to the debate

    Objection, your Honor. Relevance.
    posted by kirkaracha at 3:33 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    Trump is bringing Obama's half-brother to the debate, @KatyTurNBC reports (via Bradd Jaffy)

    I'm sure that will really upset Obama's composure during the debate.
    posted by airish at 3:34 PM on October 18, 2016 [100 favorites]


    Seriously, I'm just like ??????

    Is...is this because Obama called him a whiner this morning?
    posted by yasaman at 3:34 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    UM. These real estate holdings? (Tweet)
    posted by Sophie1 at 3:36 PM on October 18, 2016 [15 favorites]


    You guys, it's so he can prove that at least one Obama was born in Kenya.
    posted by monospace at 3:36 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    It's because he can't accept that a woman is his opponent. It's the standard man talking to the other man in the room even though the woman is his business contact. He's looking for another penis to fence with (Bill Clinton, Paul Ryan, Barack Obama).

    To Trump, women can never be anything more than their value to him as sexual objects.
    posted by stolyarova at 3:38 PM on October 18, 2016 [63 favorites]


    I am old enough now that I have seen weirder things than Donald Trump running for president, or God help us all, Trump winning. I saw George W Bush "win" and murder more than a million Iraqis, and Cheney and Rumsfeld, still free men. Just so you know, I expect the worst out of this situation, and I don't think there is a far enough out, outpost to hide in, if it comes to pass. All clear eyed apologists for intolerable bullshit aside, this scramble is a horror. If I had an anxiety disorder I can see how those of you are stepping off this observation platform. See, I am so chill as to be like barely alive, and I am finding the suspense, and the gall of all the bad actors, and the cunning deception of the American public just disgusting. How little I know.
    posted by Oyéah at 3:39 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    At this point I'm surprised he's not bringing Alex Jones.
    posted by EarBucket at 3:39 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    You guys, it's so he can prove that at least one Obama was born in Kenya.

    The Obama Transitive Property at work yet again!
    posted by psoas at 3:41 PM on October 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


    alex jones all wearing a gas mask to protect against the sulfurous fumes
    posted by entropicamericana at 3:41 PM on October 18, 2016 [13 favorites]


    It is because his brother Malik has endorsed Trump. Page Six
    “I’m excited to be at the debate. Trump can make America great again,” Malik told The Post.

    “I look very much forward to meeting and being with Malik,” Trump said. “He gets it far better than his brother.”

    Malik agrees with Trump that the mainstream media is biased, and he dismisses the women who claim Trump kissed or groped them without their permission.

    “I don’t believe them,” Malik said. “Why didn’t they come forward before?”
    I guess Barack got all the brains in the family. And the charm.

    @RealDonaldJTrump Thank you Colorado Springs. If I’m elected President I am going to keep Radical Islamic Terrorists out of our country! #DrainTheSwamp

    First of all I would like to know his plan for keeping terrorists out. Wave a magic wand? Second Drain the swamp sounds like a macho euphemism for urinating.
    posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:42 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    The Obama Transitive Property

    dibs on this sockpuppet name
    posted by entropicamericana at 3:43 PM on October 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


    "Drain the swamp" sounds line a not-so-subtle euphemism for "let's get this purge started."
    posted by stolyarova at 3:43 PM on October 18, 2016 [26 favorites]


    Donald Trump Is Running Some Really Insecure Email Servers

    No problem, Fancy Bear isn't interested in embarrassing Trump.

    I wonder how hard it would be to insert a fake email onto a server? Trump (or Clinton) asking if they can obtain some illegal drugs or sex, for example.
    posted by msalt at 3:51 PM on October 18, 2016


    > UM. These real estate holdings? (Tweet)
    Breaking: 249 Trump companies located IN Russia-official paperwork of Trump, LLC via the Russian Gov below-more to come via @KeepAmerGr8


    This might be the oppo drop we were waiting for. Trump stated he had no ties to Russia.
    posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:51 PM on October 18, 2016 [48 favorites]


    I come from a very activist background. I won't give my bona fides, but they're on this site if you care to go searching. I've heard many, many arguments for Hillary Clinton from realists who are looking at this election with clear eyes. I have not read one more clear eyed than this, from an old lesbian who knows from identity politics and ideological purity.
    You don’t have to like her! Let me clarify the office for which the two candidates are running. They are running for the leader of the largest military, economic, capitalist, imperialist, aggressive nation in the world. They are not running for best friend. They are not running for leader of my fantasy feminist anti-racist labor nation. They are running for leader of a massive world power in an out of control world. So, who is most equipped to do the job?
    Picture a meeting where the leaders of North and South Korea sit with leaders of India and Pakistan, sit with leaders of Israel and Palestine, sit with leaders from Black Lives Matter and the KKK, sit with the leaders of Standing Rock – you get the picture. In the center of the room is access to a nuclear weapon. Then the president of the US walks in. Who is most equipped to handle the tension in the room? No question.
    Why it is that Ms Clinton is accused of being “badder” than JFK or Obama, who were also leaders of a world power and who also had to deal with the under belly of American politics - which includes Kissinger, corporations, the military industrial complex, privatization of the racist prison system, a massive weapons lobby and the ongoing attack on the environment and indigenous people.
    So I repeat. You don’t have to LIKE her. But hopefully you like yourself enough to vote from a place of self-defense. I know how to struggle with a Hawk Democrat. I don’t know how to struggle with a mad man. I value my time. I do not want to spend the next 4 years defending Planned Parenthood, suffering right wing Supreme Court decisions or dealing with the rise in hate crimes because the president encourages people to be their worst selves.
    So I am voting in defense of myself and for all the people who will be insulted, abused, forgotten and cast out if the mad man is elected. His shocking behavior is not a joke for women living with men who emulate his sexism. His racism is dangerous for children making their way through complex daily life in the classroom.
    A while ago I thought we should try talking to people who are voting for Trump. Now, I think we need to talk to each other - to make sure that our friends who have chosen this year to cry “purity” do not throw their vote to a third party that is not yet established from the ground up.
    Let’s check misogyny, political elitism, purity politics and cynicism at the door. In an ideal world do I want to vote for a hawk? No. Still, I’m voting for Hillary Clinton. I prefer to choose the person with whom I will struggle. And then I will continue to be part of the social change movements that work for change.
    - Holly Near
    posted by Sophie1 at 3:52 PM on October 18, 2016 [165 favorites]


    This might be the oppo drop we were waiting for. Trump stated he had no ties to Russia.

    i'll guess his defense is going to be the ironclad "i never said that."
    posted by entropicamericana at 3:53 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    The extremist mullah of the largest madrassa in the country clamps down on free speech at the religious school he runs with an iron fist.
    posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 3:54 PM on October 18, 2016 [16 favorites]


    I'm not seeing any reaction yet to the news on Trump properties in Russia but this is interesting:

    @ericgeller BREAKING: Ecuador admits it cut off Assange's internet due to his use of it to interfere in the U.S. election.

    attached is the official statement which says the same thing only in a more formal way.
    posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:56 PM on October 18, 2016 [48 favorites]


    This might be the oppo drop we were waiting for. Trump stated he had no ties to Russia.


    Possibly, though that tweet is from yesterday.
    posted by Celsius1414 at 3:56 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Transcript of the Melania Trump Interview With Anderson Cooper Shows She's on the Same Page as Donald: "People, they don't really know me, people think and talk about me, like, 'Oh Melania, oh poor Melania.' Don't feel sorry for me. Don't feel sorry for me."
    Don't cry for me Argentina
    The truth is I never left you
    All through my wild days
    My mad existence
    I kept my promise
    Don't keep your distance
    posted by kirkaracha at 3:57 PM on October 18, 2016 [12 favorites]


    They are not running for leader of my fantasy feminist anti-racist labor nation.

    This actually gets exactly to the heart about what changed about my approach to presidential elections over the last decade (so, in personal life terms, from age 25 to 35). We kind of have the country that we have. The person we elects has to take office a few months from now and actually run that country, not Canada or Sweden or Intersectional AnarchaFeminist Summer Camp.
    posted by Sara C. at 3:57 PM on October 18, 2016 [64 favorites]


    John Ralston on Twitter:
    Republicans for Clinton putting up mobile Vegas billboard for debate. Will go up and down the Strip. It's subtle.
    posted by palindromic at 4:01 PM on October 18, 2016 [14 favorites]


    Trump is bringing Obama's half-brother to the debate

    Like, as a guest, or a hostage? *perplexed*
    posted by FelliniBlank at 4:02 PM on October 18, 2016 [10 favorites]




    Pat Smith, Vilerat's mother, will be at the debate too.
    posted by Talez at 4:05 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Trump is bringing Obama's half-brother to the debate

    Like, as a guest, or a hostage? *perplexed*


    $$$
    posted by Celsius1414 at 4:05 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Czech police, working with the FBI, have arrested a Russian citizen suspected of U.S. hacks (unclear which):

    New tweet from the same guy that Secret Life of Gravy linked to above.
    posted by colt45 at 4:06 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]



    Possibly, though that tweet is from yesterday


    I'm (very) open to being convinced but I'm thinking that anyone in Russia can call their business Trump Toilet Flapper Company of Irkutsk and no one is really going to care and the Donald would never know. Countries that don't care so much about IP have a lot of that sort of thing.
    posted by soren_lorensen at 4:07 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Honestly, I'm finding the Russia paperwork a bit of a stretch right now. There's no reason he would have setup 249 Russian companies, and many may be unaffiliated. I do believe he has investment ties to Russia, because his son said so, but I haven't seen evidence that these documents are a smoking gun of anything.
    posted by zachlipton at 4:07 PM on October 18, 2016


    OK, I take it back. This is probably a big nothing. Clicking around I find that the word Трамп which is the sole piece of evidence that Trump owns these businesses has a lot of meanings including "tramp vessel." Also Russians use names like "Trimp" and "Tromps" in their businesses as nonsensical names. Someone on Little Green Footballs went to all the effort of tracking some of the companies down and discovered that they were out of business, owned by Russians, or were very tiny:
    The firms that I randomly checked out were small businesses with very small authorized capitals. For example “Olimpik Tramp 09”, which had something to do with renting of real estate, owned by Tamara Moskalenko, had an authorized capital of 10000 rubles in 2009, which is basically nothing. The profit in 2013 was 337000 rubles, about 8500$. I don’t think any comment is necessary.

    Many of these companies were located in the Russian province, in places far away from Moscow and Saint-Petersburg.
    posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:08 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    $$$

    Well, OK, cool then. If Trump wants to pay a lot of money to miscellaneous irrelevant people who can do his campaign no possible good, at least he's redistributing some wealth to folks who can surely use it more than he can. I just hope they insist on cash in advance.
    posted by FelliniBlank at 4:10 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    The person we elects has to take office a few months from now and actually run that country, not Canada or Sweden or Intersectional AnarchaFeminist Summer Camp.

    I want to escape (and am making plans) post-Brexit Britain, and all of those sound much better options. Wondering if Ryanair flies to the latter.
    posted by Wordshore at 4:11 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    (Tweet)
    What presidential candidates bring to debates
    Trump: Bill Clinton accusers and Obama's half brother
    Clinton: Her A-Game
    posted by colt45 at 4:11 PM on October 18, 2016 [71 favorites]




    (Tweet)
    What presidential candidates bring to debates
    Trump: Bill Clinton accusers and Obama's half brother
    Clinton: Her A-Game


    I'm convinced she chose to bunt at the Town Hall debate. She didn't want the debate to compete with the Access Hollywood tapes for airtime.
    posted by Francis at 4:14 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    I mean, Trump can bring the reanimated corpse of Vince Foster if he wants, but the debate people aren't going to let him seat any of these distractions somewhere visible, so who cares?
    posted by FelliniBlank at 4:15 PM on October 18, 2016


    1) Certain parts of the conservative base have long attacked Obama for not supporting his half-brother.
    2) Conservatives use Obama's lack of support for his half-brother to extrapolate that Democrats don't care about poor blacks in general.
    3) They argue that Dems only care about minorities during elections, but abandon them otherwise--just like Obama does his own brother.
    4) Also, that Dems are monstrous because we crave only power and don't even care about our own families.
    5) Bringing Obama's half-brother & Clinton's supposedly illegitimate son feeds into conservative narrative that Dems don't care for our own.
    6) GOP argument is that Dems use the less fortunate as props to get elected, then shoo then backstage after. Trump brings them forward.
    7) Unless you read a lot of conservative media, none of this will make sense to you. But if you do, it makes perfect sense.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 4:18 PM on October 18, 2016 [13 favorites]


    I have it on good authority that the corpse of Vince Foster is voting for Hillary.
    posted by Atom Eyes at 4:18 PM on October 18, 2016 [19 favorites]


    when meeting with the police man fainted

    This is also how Khan Noonien Singh got out of questioning.
    posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:19 PM on October 18, 2016 [10 favorites]


    I have no idea what this news source is, but it's certainly intriguing.

    Here's the original link in Czech. Looks like a press release from the police.
    posted by colt45 at 4:19 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Zombie Vince Foster always wants cash up front so he's a scratch.
    posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:22 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    When McMullin talks about how bad the minimum wage is for business. I remember how you used to get paid one dollar to pick a lug of cherries. So what would all this mean to migrant workers or fruit harvesters in general? This is a picture a six year old could paint with black and red paint, looking like an empty Halloween house, skulls and graves. Conservatives believe there are problems with poor populations that can be cured with underpaying them? Maybe there is an infinite supply of government cake these people can eat.
    posted by Oyéah at 4:23 PM on October 18, 2016 [11 favorites]


    Back to Melania.

    From the Rude Pundit linked earlier:
    5. What the fuck did she mean when she said that negative stories about her "surprised me also because every story, it's a female, it's a female reporter"? Is she saying that women are jealous of her? Of her body? Of her fatuous dick of a husband? Weird.
    I said yesterday this really bothered me. I haven't noticed but surely not every reporter on the sexual harassment story is female. It is very strange the way she seized on that "fact" as proof that her husband is innocent of all accusations-- as though all of the female reporters are pushing an agenda.

    I have wondered for months why she has been so scarce on the campaign trail. I thought perhaps Donald was being protective of her but that doesn't seem in his character. Possibly it is because she does not go over well with his nativist crowds and possibly because she has a hellava resting bitch face-- every time I see her I think she is mad about something. Or maybe she just didn't want anything to do with this campaign. What do I know about their personal life?
    posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:23 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    @conor64 Meanwhile, in a last ditch effort to eek out an even bigger lead over her rival, HRC has arranged for Donald Trump to be at the next debate.

    I believe conor64 meant to write eke but eek is a perfectly acceptable reaction to seeing Trump so maybe it is intentional.
    posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:26 PM on October 18, 2016 [61 favorites]


    The half-brother Obama was attacked for not supporting is not the same half-brother who will be at the debate.
    posted by showbiz_liz at 4:28 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    @BraddJaffy Per @KatyTurNBC, there are more Trump surprise guests in store for the debate, in addition to Obama's half-brother & Benghazi mom Pat Smith

    More surprise guests. Poor Trump. You can take the Trump out of the Reality Show but you can't take the Reality Showness out of the Trump.
    posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:30 PM on October 18, 2016 [22 favorites]


    But why would HRC give a shit about some rando releative of Obama?
    posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:30 PM on October 18, 2016 [29 favorites]


    Oyéah: So what would all this mean to migrant workers or fruit harvesters in general?

    Um, nothing, because they're all paid under the table anyway.

    McMullin's proposal is basically wage welfare for businesses - make up for crappy wages by having the government chip in and pay part (via a sort of advance EIC) so the employees can survive.
    posted by Mitrovarr at 4:31 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Yeah, it's going to be the fake Bill Clinton son.
    posted by stolyarova at 4:32 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Hey I watched the Melania interview with Anderson Cooper. Using my Neuro Linguistic Programming skills, she accessed her information with eye movement to the left, more than half of the time. The rest of the time she started straight on. Ha ha ha. Maybe that has all been debunked but it looked a lot like making it up as you go, and accessing feelings about it at the same time.

    In Utah there are a lot of mail order relationships out of Middle Europe. The women, sick of how they are treated over there, and in Russia, come into Utah, and feel the men are much nicer than those in the countries they abandoned for seemingly safe marriage. So, maybe Melania is used to all shenanigans, all the time. This is what these mail order bride ladies say anyway. It is kind of a non story that makes for pleasant reading in Utah. They are the ones saying the men are awful where they come from, not me, just so you know.

    Melania has been scarce on the campaign trail because she became another hole in Trump's bucket when it was learned she fabricated her college experience. The truth is the spouses are not running for president, but the first lady of the United States is considerably more than just lovely, or a good hostess. I wish all the families that have to put up with the run for President, the best.
    posted by Oyéah at 4:33 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    But why would HRC give a shit about some rando releative of Obama?

    Presumably he's bringing Obama's brother because Roger Clinton wasn't available?
    posted by Joey Michaels at 4:35 PM on October 18, 2016


    Hillary is going to be campaigning with Elizabeth Warren on Monday in NH. The event is not yet on Hillary's page.
    posted by cashman at 4:36 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Wow. I'm nostalgic for competent evil.
    posted by petebest at 4:36 PM on October 18, 2016 [24 favorites]


    So, I have to confess I never paid that much attention before (even when both candidates are moderately competent, debates still have a high likelihood of triggering my second hand embarrassment), but surprise guests have never been a thing at debates in previous elections, have they?
    posted by soren_lorensen at 4:37 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    More surprise Trump guests:

    Bill Clinton's secret love baby
    John McCain's black love baby
    John Edward's second family
    Barney Frank's prostitute friend
    Anthony Weiner
    The Eliot Spitzer hooker
    Gary Condit
    Rick Pitino's blackmailer
    posted by T.D. Strange at 4:37 PM on October 18, 2016 [22 favorites]


    More surprise guests. Poor Trump. You can take the Trump out of the Reality Show but you can't take the Reality Showness out of the Trump.

    He has a foolproof strategy for getting out of this.
    posted by palindromic at 4:38 PM on October 18, 2016


    What does Trump hope to achieve with these surprise guests? It does nothing.but increase the Jerry Springer quotient of the event. Does he think that helps him somehow?
    posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:40 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    The descendants of Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 4:41 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    WATCH: Trump attorney asked to respond to People accuser — and kept confusing her with other victims:
    Continuing on, Cohen asserted that Trump is never alone, making sexual assaults unlikely.

    “You now this very very well,” Cohen said. “Mr. Trump is never alone. Especially not at Mar-a-Lago where there is always an employee or security around him. It’s very hard to imagine that he was by himself, sitting by a bar, because Mr. Trump doesn’t drink alcohol –”

    “No. That was a nightclub in New York,” Blitzer cut in, reminding Trump’s attorney he was bringing up a different claim made by photographer and former model Kristin Anderson — and not the assault at Trump’s resort on Stoyonoff.
    posted by palindromic at 4:41 PM on October 18, 2016 [42 favorites]


    Does he think that helps him somehow?

    What is this 'thinking' you hu-mans speak of?
    posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:41 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    McMullin's proposal is basically wage welfare for businesses [...]

    I've seen several programs like this and what inevitably happens is: scammers and do-gooders set up programs called "Welfare to Work" or whatever. They find a bunch of people who are incapable of working or don't want to work. They collect whatever grants are out for training and rehabilitating or whatever, and farm their "workers" out to friendly businesses or churches on the understanding that they don't really need to actually work. Maybe the businesses get their money's worth, maybe they're doing it as charity. Eventually there are too many investigations going on and the whole thing gets too embarrassing for the government, so the program gets shut down.

    I'm kinda surprised a libertarian would suggest this, it's really quite an intrusive use of government power.
    posted by Joe in Australia at 4:42 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    Trump will also be bringing Jeff Gannon.

    Because 2016.

    [fake]
    posted by petebest at 4:42 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Regarding minimum wage for farm workers and migrant workers. The numbers are huge, in terms of taxes PAID by migrant workers.

    Here
    posted by Oyéah at 4:43 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Zombie Billy Carter
    Zombie Marilyn Monroe
    posted by FelliniBlank at 4:43 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Metafilter: Intersectional AnarchaFeminist Summer Camp
    posted by numaner at 4:43 PM on October 18, 2016 [43 favorites]


    What does Trump hope to achieve with these surprise guests? It does nothing.but increase the Jerry Springer quotient of the event. Does he think that helps him somehow?

    It seems clear to me that it's about getting as many insults out as possible in the few weeks left that he has before he's officially crowned The Loser.
    posted by Mister Fabulous at 4:44 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Trump is easily provoked and, because he is a total narcissist, can only assume that everyone else in the world is even more easily provoked than him. That's the logic behind this, if we must call it logic.
    posted by showbiz_liz at 4:47 PM on October 18, 2016 [17 favorites]


    Loser, that a nice ring to it.
    posted by Oyéah at 4:48 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    What does Trump hope to achieve with these surprise guests? It does nothing.but increase the Jerry Springer quotient of the event. Does he think that helps him somehow?

    As you all recall, the election commission people wouldn't let him stage his "Bill's accusers confront him" thing at Debate #2. I suspect he's trying to stage manage some other sort of confrontation here - something that will disrupt the debate and (he hopes) make him look like a strong and powerful guy who makes stuff happen. Based on the flop of his last planned disruption, I suspect this one will also fizzle out.
    posted by Joey Michaels at 4:50 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    escape from the potato planet: What does Trump hope to achieve with these surprise guests? It does nothing.but increase the Jerry Springer quotient of the event. Does he think that helps him somehow?

    The best theory I've heard so far is that he's trying to make Clinton look as bad as he is, so people throw their hands up and go back to voting for economic populism and racism.
    posted by Mitrovarr at 4:51 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    I mean, Trump can bring the reanimated corpse of Vince Foster if he wants, but the debate people aren't going to let him seat any of these distractions somewhere visible, so who cares?

    He can get the media to cover seating disputes and guests instead of his inability to answer the questions or stop sniffling.
    posted by dilettante at 4:51 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    @jbarro
    Jerry Falwell Jr. killed Liberty U student paper op-ed critical of Trump on sexual assault: [story link]


    @LibyaLiberty Retweeted Josh Barro
    The extremist mullah of the largest madrassa in the country clamps down on free speech at the religious school he runs with an iron fist.
    posted by chris24 at 4:51 PM on October 18, 2016 [44 favorites]


    Loser, that a nice ring to it.

    Perdedor has a nicer ring to it.
    posted by Talez at 4:52 PM on October 18, 2016 [15 favorites]


    @jbarro
    Jerry Falwell Jr. killed Liberty U student paper op-ed critical of Trump on sexual assault


    Good plan. It's not as if they have any other possible way to spread it around the globe.
    posted by FelliniBlank at 4:54 PM on October 18, 2016 [11 favorites]




    Way far down, but I wonder why donald doesn't cite Oakland as one of his 'black' cities.

    please come here please come here
    posted by waitangi at 4:56 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    One interesting new thing from Trump as part of his 11th hour "hey maybe we should talk about ethics or something for two sentences at a time?" push is that he called for a Constitutional amendment for Congressional term limits, though he didn't say how long those limits should be.

    Update: he had a nice long think about a major Constitutional matter between his rallies and decided 6 years in the House and 12 years in the Senate. I'm just impressed he managed to produce something that was actually a valid number. Not really sure why the House should serve three terms and the Senate two, but there it is.
    posted by zachlipton at 4:57 PM on October 18, 2016


    So are Liberty U students like every other student in America in that banning them from something makes it more likely they'll seek it out? Or is that not something they're used to doing? Because the news that they banned it should make the article much more prominent than if they had quietly allowed it to run in the sports section.
    posted by downtohisturtles at 4:58 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    This will cheer you up and bring a tear to your eye. I think it's the 4th ad Clinton has made focusing on people with disabilities.

    @HillaryClinton
    Ryan talks about living with a disability—and befriending Hillary back in 1994: "She looks at me the way I always wanted to be looked at." [video]
    posted by chris24 at 4:59 PM on October 18, 2016 [16 favorites]


    If Trump loses this election, I want someone to nominate Billy Bush, for the Nobel Peace Prize, next year. Seriously. He seems to have been the only reality check that has so far awakened at least some folks.
    posted by Oyéah at 4:59 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Conservative writers: Please don’t vote for Donald Trump:
    A group of conservative writers is asking voters to reject Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump, calling him a candidate “most dangerous to our nation’s founding ideals.”

    The more than 140 scholars and writers who signed a letter are encouraging people to vote “as we will, for someone else.”

    Some of the signers have served in past Republican administrations and all have voted for past Republican presidents and candidates.

    “Given our choices in the presidential election, we believe that Donald Trump is the candidate most dangerous to our nation’s founding ideals,” they wrote, calling Trump a “unique and dire threat to the political principles, liberties, and cultural values of justice, fairness, honesty, and decency we have long defended.”
    The letter is posted here. Signatories include P.J. O’Rourke, Christopher Buckley, Jonathan Adler, Linda Chavez, and Orin Kerr.
    posted by zachlipton at 5:02 PM on October 18, 2016 [37 favorites]


    A Bunch of Influential Progressives Just Gave Hillary Clinton Their Stamp of Approval
    A group of influential progressive intellectuals are giving Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton their seal of approval ― and urging fellow progressives, including those who supported Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) in the Democratic primaries, to do the same.

    In a letter that went public on Tuesday and was provided in advance to The Huffington Post, more than 50 progressive economists and other policy experts endorse Clinton’s candidacy ― not simply as a way to defeat GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump, but also as a way to advance a liberal economic agenda.
    posted by kirkaracha at 5:03 PM on October 18, 2016 [19 favorites]


    If Trump loses this election, I want someone to nominate Billy Bush, for the Nobel Peace Prize, next year. Seriously. He seems to have been the only reality check that has so far awakened at least some folks.

    Gross. I mean, they gave the Prize to Obama for getting elected (that was mentioned on Colbert last night) and that's still better than giving Billy Bush any kind of prize. Billy Bush got off that bus after having that conversation and immediately set up Trump to get a hug from Zucker. That's, ugh... No prizes for that.
    posted by zachlipton at 5:06 PM on October 18, 2016 [22 favorites]


    Considering how many "influential" conservatives have turned against Trump, that should compel all thinking conservative Americans to vote against him. What'll that be, 1%, maybe 1.5% of the electorate?
    posted by oneswellfoop at 5:09 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    So are Liberty U students like every other student in America in that banning them from something makes it more likely they'll seek it out?

    I had a friend who attended nearby Lynchburg College in the late 90's and Liberty was a deeply strange place back then. For example, at the town Walmart groups of Liberty students would remain segregated by sex so there could no accusations of opposite sex mingling. If a group of Liberty boys went to McDonalds and there were Liberty girls eating there, they would leave and eat somewhere else. The boy groups and the girl groups would avoid making any contact or sharing any close spaces with one another off campus as it would lead to rumors of any inappropriate behaviors and the administrative punishments that came with it. It is was a paranoid and authoritarian environment that the students lived within.
    posted by peeedro at 5:10 PM on October 18, 2016 [15 favorites]


    Yeah Billy Bush doesn't even merit a beer.
    posted by vrakatar at 5:10 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    When McMullin talks about how bad the minimum wage is for business. I remember how you used to get paid one dollar to pick a lug of cherries.

    I've often thought that almost all people who want to eliminate the minimum wage have never had to live on it. Most of them seem to have never lived on an hourly wage at all; they've been salaried their whole lives.

    I can see a cogent, useful argument that paying a full living to teenagers making summer party money is excessive. I could also posit a solution involving permission to pay half or even a third of minimum wage to workers who (1) are under 18, (2) claimed on someone else's tax return as a dependent, (3) are working less than 20 hours a week, and (4) have been working at that place for less than a year.

    Extend the same terms to interns who are learning as they go - no more free interns, period. Put them all on the clock; no more 17-hour workdays. (Ideally, I'd like to see the end of the whole "unpaid intern" system, but I could accept a compromise of "less than min wage" - as long as they're punching a clock, earning overtime, and are subject to the same break requirements as other workers.)

    McMullin seems to think that the workplace is overflowing with available jobs that people are refusing to take because they're too picky. He doesn't seem to think employers will, if given the option, return to pre-union turn-of-the-20th wage and working conditions situations.

    Would love to see him plan a 6-month budget for a single parent based on a minimum-wage job. Include at least one illness or injury, a stretch of bad weather, and a strike that affects transportation options.
    posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:11 PM on October 18, 2016 [24 favorites]


    The person we elects has to take office a few months from now and actually run that country, not Canada or Sweden or Intersectional AnarchaFeminist Summer Camp.

    I want to escape (and am making plans) post-Brexit Britain, and all of those sound much better options. Wondering if Ryanair flies to the latter.


    I'd like to think the IAFSC is on a lovely wooded peninsula of Crone Island.
    posted by Celsius1414 at 5:13 PM on October 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


    ErisLordFreedom: Extend the same terms to interns who are learning as they go - no more free interns, period. Put them all on the clock; no more 17-hour workdays. (Ideally, I'd like to see the end of the whole "unpaid intern" system, but I could accept a compromise of "less than min wage" - as long as they're punching a clock, earning overtime, and are subject to the same break requirements as other workers.)

    If there is any opening anywhere, it'll be gamed. People will be interns for twenty years.
    posted by Mitrovarr at 5:18 PM on October 18, 2016 [13 favorites]




    (1) are under 18, (2) claimed on someone else's tax return as a dependent, (3) are working less than 20 hours a week, and (4) have been working at that place for less than a year. Well some people who work less than 20 hours are working moms, some teenagers who work are working moms. Some school districts won't let classified employees work more than x number of hours so they don't get state benefits. Many school bus drivers fit into that category, education aides, even part time teachers fit into that category, certainly some substitute teachers. Pay discrimination based on age, or hours worked is sort of a problem.

    I think the truth is that if business people want to make money off employing people, they must be held to standards, especially companies that cross state lines, or hire people who care for school children, or the elderly, etc. What is being described here is so rife with potential for corruption and discrimination.
    posted by Oyéah at 5:19 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    some teenagers who work are working moms.
    My understanding is that they wouldn't be claimed as a dependant on anyone else's tax return?

    People will be interns for twenty years.
    The proposal you are responding to included " (4) have been working at that place for less than a year."
    posted by the agents of KAOS at 5:21 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    I cannot fathom how clueless Trump can be sometimes. He threw his best shot at Hillary regarding "surprise guests" and it didn't faze her in the least, nor score him any points at all in the polls. If anything it made him look desperate and craven. So of course he doubles down on the stupid with yet another stunt.

    Sigh. Please get this shit over with.
    posted by Ber at 5:21 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    I can certainly believe there won't be any GOP "reckoning". When they get defeated, they talk about doing some soul-searching, then remember they don't have souls, and go back to the drawing-board which they never erased in the first place so it's the same thing next time around.
    posted by uosuaq at 5:22 PM on October 18, 2016 [13 favorites]


    The proposal you are responding to included " (4) have been working at that place for less than a year."

    Oh, ok. People will go around taking one year stints at every company. Many of these will be basically shell companies to get around the regulation, where people will do the same job for the same people, but with a different name on the building.
    posted by Mitrovarr at 5:22 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Field report: calling locals again, but my list had some Unafiliateds (not that unusual, but new for local calls) and a couple Republicans (WTF?) I asked and was told they're there because they expressed interest in some way, likely through Hill's website. Sadly I didn't get hold of the Rs. I did have good luck getting volunteers. My total must be in the twenties now.

    Weird call of the day: I call from a neighboring county that does daytime calling (mine doesn't) so I didn't recognize one name as a local state representative. I asked if Hillary had his support and he laughed and said he was a convention delegate for her! I said I probably don't need to ask if he was interested in volunteering, and he said he's made some calls from the office I was in. Hope to run into him.
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:24 PM on October 18, 2016 [23 favorites]


    I wish the Commission for Presidential Debates would shut this shit down tomorrow. As in, he tries to walk in with those people, and they suspend having people sit in the 'vip' seats or whatever. If he's bringing them to the debate, I don't care. But it has been said on one of the networks that Trump is trying to orchestrate a confrontation again just like he did last time and yeah, no. Fuck that.

    This is not a joke. This is not a reality show where the producers plot stupid little surprises and gotchas for a camera zoom moment. The CPD shut it down at the last debate, and I hope they do something to cancel this stupid confrontation Trump is trying to set up.
    posted by cashman at 5:25 PM on October 18, 2016 [52 favorites]


    If 2012 resulted not in GOP collectively taking a moment for self-examination -- especially after being practically begged to in some of their own leadership's analyses -- 2016 won't. The few remaining principled folks in the GOP are going to have to split off into a new party or wait for the fading-white-supremacy freakout to die down.

    This is what reaping the whirlwind looks like.
    posted by tclark at 5:27 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    We've had some dicey sources for links lately (BESIDES person-you've-never-heard-of's-twitter-but-damn-that's-a-good-one-liner), but the "No GOP Reckoning" analysis was from mtv.com. Whaa?!? If any media entity has a vested interest in "Reality TV Politics", I'd say it was the channel that used to play music videos.
    posted by oneswellfoop at 5:29 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Isn't the moderator of tomorrow's debate some sort of Fox News windbag? He'll probably just allow Trumpo to bring his special guests on stage and have them literally fight HRC with folding chairs.
    posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:30 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    If there is any opening anywhere, it'll be gamed. People will be interns for twenty years.

    Put a one-year cap on it, same as for minors, on the theory that anyone who's working for you longer than a year, is beneficial enough to your company to be worth at least minimum wage.

    Right now, people are unpaid interns for months (often not for years, because they can't afford it), and law firms especially are known to take advantage of students. I'd love to see much tighter controls on the difference between "intern learning a job" vs "unpaid employee who's also learning things." While those are being sorted out, I'd like to see the learning interns (1) get paid something and (2) be held to the same safety rules that cover waged workers.

    Hm, come to think of it... I'd like to know what Egg thinks of child labor. At what age does he think someone should be allowed to work full-time, and does he believe minors should be allowed to quit school in order to work?

    A removal of minimum wage means the option of hiring a whole lot of high-energy, easy-to-intimidate, poorly-educated workers for all sorts of no-skills-required jobs.
    posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:32 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Isn't the moderator of tomorrow's debate some sort of Fox News windbag?

    He's a journalist (ex-ABC) who provides a beard for the windbags.
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:33 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    They simply should stop giving seat tickets to candidates to hand out.
    posted by rhizome at 5:34 PM on October 18, 2016 [19 favorites]


    No one knows what MTV does anymore.
    posted by Yowser at 5:35 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Isn't the moderator of tomorrow's debate some sort of Fox News windbag? He'll probably just allow Trumpo to bring his special guests on stage and have them literally fight HRC with folding chairs.

    Not his call. The Commission on Presidential Debates runs the proceedings.
    posted by FelliniBlank at 5:35 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    He's a journalist (ex-ABC) who provides a beard for the windbags.

    Really? Can you claim to be a journalist if you a) work for Fox News, and b) claim that is it not your job to fact check candidates?
    posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:35 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Yeah, Chris Wallace occasionally makes a cogent point or asks a serious question but by and large he's a tool.

    If Shepard Smith was doing the next debate I'd be legitimately looking forward to it. Alas, he's the only person at Fox who isn't a total Republican shill so naturally he's not the one they picked.
    posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:36 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    > I can see a cogent, useful argument that paying a full living to teenagers making summer party money is excessive. I could also posit a solution involving permission to pay half or even a third of minimum wage to workers who (1) are under 18, (2) claimed on someone else's tax return as a dependent, (3) are working less than 20 hours a week, and (4) have been working at that place for less than a year.

    No. Are they doing the work? Are they working the same tasks as non-minor workers? Then pay them the same.

    I had a job a long time ago where the boss told me that the reason a co-worker got paid more was that he had a family to support (he was the child of a single mother, and...so was I!). We did basically the same job and I had been there longer. He was 21 to my 17.

    If they're doing the same amount and type of labor, they deserve the same pay.
    posted by rtha at 5:38 PM on October 18, 2016 [52 favorites]


    Guarantee in 2020 someone tries the Trump strategy hoping it will work again. Except in 2020 being called Trump-like will be a sick burn that they'll have difficulty avoiding or denying. It might still work, but not as well as this time. Trump's burning the bridge behind him.
    posted by ctmf at 5:39 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    @natemcdermott One reason Trump is polling so badly? By a 2-to-1 margin people believe the women accusing him of sexual assault http://fxn.ws/2eOLlHH

    The question is "Who is lying?"
    Trump 51%
    Accusers 25%
    Both 10%
    Unsure 15%

    The rest of the poll shows Clinton leading in every category except handling the economy where Trump leads 6 points. Even nominating the Supreme Court Justice people trust Clinton more than Trump. Her biggest lead is trust with nuclear weapons. She is 25 points over Trump.
    posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:42 PM on October 18, 2016 [12 favorites]


    There will be no GOP reckoning
    Republicans say they want to take a look in the mirror and take stock now, but they probably won’t want to in four years. Then, someone will take the recipe that Trump is using and simplify it to white populism, dropping the crude misogyny, incompetence, and scandal that seem to have all but doomed his campaign. The racism and xenophobia, though, will remain in place. Candidates aiming for the GOP nomination in 2020 aren’t going to see Trump as a warning sign; they’ll see him as a road map.
    posted by maudlin at 5:43 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    What... what does "both" mean? How can they both be lying?
    posted by Justinian at 5:43 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Can't wait until 2020 to see which internet wag gets an eponymous law for describing the phenomenon where, as an online discussion of Republican politicians gets longer, the probability of a Trump comparison approaches 1.
    posted by palindromic at 5:45 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    What... what does "both" mean? How can they both be lying?

    Prolly "Both are liars."
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:45 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    There's zero evidence that Trump couldn't just win the 2020 primary again. He's losing with the GOP "establishment", for whatever value that even has anymore, and with independent voters. He's still killing it with the GOP base.

    That's the Republican's problem. Their voters LOVE Trump, and Bannon, and Brietbart, and the voters have swallowed every last cynical lie, racist ploy, crass appeal and malicious plot - hook, line and sinker. There's no plausible person on Earth who can both win a Republican primary and have even the faintest grasp on fact or reality, so this cycle is going to keep repeating until the party implodes, or actually wins and destroys the world.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 5:46 PM on October 18, 2016 [11 favorites]


    What... what does "both" mean? How can they both be lying?

    I imagine in exactly the same way "both candidates are terrible!" which you say when your candidate is truly terrible but you don't want to vote for the other one.
    posted by mrnutty at 5:46 PM on October 18, 2016


    What... what does "both" mean? How can they both be lying?

    I think it is probably people who don't like Trump but figure some of the women might be shading the truth. Or maybe some of the women are lying and some are telling the truth.
    posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:46 PM on October 18, 2016


    If Shepard Smith was doing the next debate I'd be legitimately looking forward to it. Alas, he's the only person at Fox who isn't a total Republican shill so naturally he's not the one they picked.

    If Megan Kelly was moderating I'd pay to watch the debate.
    posted by nathan_teske at 5:46 PM on October 18, 2016 [15 favorites]




    So now we're allowed to use "terrorism" to refer to something not known to have been perpetrated by Islamic extremists?

    Now?

    I was wondering if I was the only person who was having trouble being intimate with my partner, because the memory of my assault is at the forefront of my mind like it hasn't been since it happened, over a decade ago.

    An ex-girlfiend of mine, after we were intimate, got very upset, I'm not sure if I'd call it anger, and went and showered as if washing herself of what we'd just done. I was initially perplexed and then it all came out, about one (sadly there were more than one) of her abusers, what he'd done to her, and just recently hearing others praise him overwhelmed her. Sadly, again, far to many of the women I've had relationships with have had stories of abuse which means as minors and assault, not to mention being treated horribly in so many other ways. I have been wondering how hard it must be to take Trump's proud mysongyny and the ignorant support for it. Hopefully getting dialog going will help this and the many other injustices that people are subject to daily.
    posted by juiceCake at 5:47 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    I am not a terribly competitive person, but for those who are - MeFites United is now in third place, above BrosForHillary. (Behind Jess and FLOTUS, but, I mean, c'mon.)

    I felt like some variety, so I called into Ohio, Pennsylvania, Georgia, and Kentucky today - as it gets later in the day, I might do a few Alaskas as well.

    And as always, I'm feeling good after making some calls.

    I got a lot of calls made, but there are still plenty left for you! Come on and join in, if you feel like it!
    posted by kristi at 5:47 PM on October 18, 2016 [32 favorites]


    Fred Clark: Where are the white evangelicals for McMullin?:
    Benjamin Morris made waves last week with a FiveThirtyEight post about “How Evan McMullin Could Win Utah and the Presidency.”

    The bit about the presidency is pretty far-fetched (involving an extremely unlikely electoral college tie heading to the House of Representatives), but McMullin really does have a strong shot at winning Utah’s six electoral votes. That’s because a majority of Utah voters are Republicans and Evan McMullin is actually a Republican.

    The Republican Party itself has a nominee running in the general election, but that person, McMullin says, is not actually Republican, or conservative, or qualified for public office. That, in essence, is the logic behind the young, unknown, former CIA-operative and former legislative aide’s quixotic independent campaign: He wants to stop Donald Trump, not just from — God forbid — winning the presidency, but from completing the wholesale transformation of the Republican Party into his image.
    posted by palindromic at 5:52 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    The Bigleyest Loser, people. Wrap that Universal recognition back! Stay on message, we have a network to run!
    posted by tilde at 5:52 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    From "There will be no GOP reckoning":
    Or, as they did in 2008 and 2012, the Republicans will blame their loss on the fact that they did not nominate someone conservative enough — and the solution will be to nominate a “true conservative” next time.
    Yes, that's it! Nominate someone more conservative after Hills wins big with the most progressive platform in history. Please baby, pleasebaby, please baby, baby baby please!
    posted by kirkaracha at 5:59 PM on October 18, 2016 [11 favorites]


    I really think the Obama's brother thing is solely about pissing off the President because he's been mocking the fuck out of Trump at rallies and pressers for the past week. It's just (more, endless, typical) petty "nyah nyah" bullshit.
    posted by FelliniBlank at 6:00 PM on October 18, 2016 [15 favorites]


    TPM: Much Ado About Nothing and the Two Weeks From Hell

    "It wasn't until I wrote this out just now that I put together just how much happened over such a short period of time. Let's review.

    Sept. 26th: 1st debate, first mention of Alicia Machado.
    Sept. 27th-Oct 1st: 'Machado War'
    September 30th: Early morning "Sex Tape" tweet storm
    October 1st: New York Times tax story
    October 7th: Access Hollywood Tape
    October 9th: 2nd debate, Trump insists "I have not" committed sexual assault
    October 12th: 'The Night of Four Stories', beginning of avalanche of sex assault allegations."
    ___

    That's a lot of self destruction in 17 days.
    posted by chris24 at 6:01 PM on October 18, 2016 [41 favorites]


    I am not a terribly competitive person, but for those who are - MeFites United is now in third place, above BrosForHillary. (Behind Jess and FLOTUS, but, I mean, c'mon.)

    Even that's doable. In my local calling, I do about five pages of names in an hour and a half (roughly--it depends how many people you talk to.) It doesn't feel like a lot, but I did the math and realized I'm making ~70 calls each day! Spend an hour and you can drastically hike our numbers.
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:02 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Sam Wang: It is totally over. If Trump wins more than 240 electoral votes, I will eat a bug.

    I've updated my based-on-nothing-but-guts map ahead of tomorrow, 322 Clinton, 183 Trump, GA, UT and AZ tossups.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 6:05 PM on October 18, 2016 [14 favorites]


    No. Are they doing the work? Are they working the same tasks as non-minor workers? Then pay them the same.

    The built-in argument is that they're not working with the same skill, as they lack general skills that an older employee would have. Almost any job is improved by workers having life experience that lets them deal with situations outside the norm; teenagers lack a lot of that.

    I'm only in favor of this option if minimum wage is raised to be a living wage, such that a person with a 40 hour a week job at min wage could afford to live alone, comfortably if frugally. I can see a coherent argument that, if the purpose of a $15 min wage is that it's a living wage, why are we required to offer it to kids who live with their parents?

    This is absolutely based on (1) under 18, so, lacking in some life experience, AND (2) someone else can claim them as dependents - so, they aren't legally required to pay for their own food/rent/etc.

    And maybe it should only be allowed for a few months - 500 hours is ~6 months at half time, or even ~350 hours; so a store could hire teenagers for the summer to scrub the windows or help repaint the storerooms, or hire for the winter holidays as extra cart-pushers and decoration-hangers, but if it wants those same teenagers next year - because now it knows those kids are reliable - it has to pay them full wages.

    I want businesses to have some incentive to hire young people, and if min wage is raised to a living wage, places will be even less inclined to hire kids instead of college students or older people stuck between jobs.
    posted by ErisLordFreedom at 6:06 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    @jbarro
    Jerry Falwell Jr. killed Liberty U student paper op-ed critical of Trump on sexual assault

    Good plan. It's not as if they have any other possible way to spread it around the globe.


    It's funny, I wouldn't have picked the Falwell family as Streisand fans.
    posted by jaduncan at 6:09 PM on October 18, 2016 [27 favorites]


    I'm starting to realize just how much the GOP is fueled by denial of reality--of climate change, of the humanity of women, queers, and people of color, of the actual rigging of the economy in favor of the wealthy and powerful, of Trump's utter unsuitability--and in that sense how Trump is actually a pretty perfect avatar for them. It will be fascinating to see how Ryan and Mitchell respond on November 9th, when Trump's train crashes into the mountain of a very real defeat.
    posted by overglow at 6:10 PM on October 18, 2016 [25 favorites]


    I'm starting to realize just how much the GOP is fueled by denial of reality--of climate change

    Tomorrow is October 19 in Rhode Island. It's going to be 80º. Usually it's closer to 50º.
    posted by Slap*Happy at 6:13 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    The just-world hosts and their nihilist parasites.
    posted by Rat Spatula at 6:13 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Also from a while ago (I'm only able to respond to things as I read them, obviously, but sorry because it means everything I'm quoting is from hundreds of comments previously):

    One of the things Oliver did here is to mock Stein's folk-rock album. He suggests it sounds like the Indigo Girls backed by The Red Hot Chili Peppers. He's not wrong. Its really quite dreadful.

    You're not kidding about this! My husband is listening to some of the songs and they are, in fact, really quite dreadful.

    The fact that Stein had the passion, talent and drive to record an album of songs is great. That she seems to be more of an Ed Wood than a Bjork is of secondary concern to me. I imagine that she would have arts-friendly policies and has some degree of empathy for her fellow humans.

    I disagree with this in this specific instance; I don't think this is a sign of respect for the arts, I think in this case it's a sign of narcissism, of Jill Stein literally enjoying the sound of her own voice. This doesn't, to me, come across as someone who loves art and wants to share music with other people because it can help build a sense of community. I might be projecting here because stuff like the fact that she's a doctor spreading anti-vaxxer nonsense makes me think she does NOT have sufficient empathy for her fellow human beings, but the way she's behaved in other contexts makes me think that this album is about self-aggrandizement and not about art.
    posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 6:15 PM on October 18, 2016 [28 favorites]


    Ryan is going to say that he never really supported Trump and do everything possible to erase the fact it was a GOP candidate pick from the collective memory of the electorate.
    posted by jaduncan at 6:15 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]




    I might be projecting here because stuff like the fact that she's a doctor spreading anti-vaxxer nonsense

    Snopes has debunked this.
    posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:18 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    These rules are hard on seasonal workers, and migrant workers. Companies can make it known they will not rehire for the next season, so they can still pay low. A lot of work has gone into wage parity, and it is not to be parodied by the ambitious. The truth is some teenagers live with poor moms who can barely keep a roof over their heads, so the extra wage even if it seems to go to someone dependent on their parent, is just blind eyeing the dynamic of poverty, in favor of employers.

    The ethic of sharing in poor families is a documented trait, created by necessity. One kid's mom works seasonally, or is a migrant. Her child gets a part time job and goes to school. Is it fair to cut wages, because another kid is from a wealthy family and it is argued that family can afford their child to work low wage. We don't owe would be employers free workers, or half free workers. Poor kids and their families need every penny. As it is, the poor kid with the job, isn't getting the great computer with the money, he or she, is likely feeding his family better with the money.
    posted by Oyéah at 6:19 PM on October 18, 2016 [21 favorites]


    Oh I apologize! Thanks for linking that! I had no idea and I apologize for spreading misinformation.

    The album is still quite dreadful.
    posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 6:20 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Woman Accused Of Smearing Peanut Butter On 30 Cars In Bizarre Anti-Trump Protest
    As protests go, this one was nutty.

    A woman in Amherst Junction, Wisconsin, has been charged with disorderly conduct after she allegedly spread peanut butter on 30 cars that she believed belonged to Donald Trump supporters.

    Turns out the cars actually belonged to members of the Tomorrow River Conservation Club.

    Witnesses said 32-year-old Christina Ferguson stormed into the club meeting on Monday night, holding what a Portage County deputy’s report described as a “family-size jar of low-sodium, creamy natural Jif,” according to the Stevens Point City Times.
    I can sympathize.
    posted by zachlipton at 6:21 PM on October 18, 2016 [17 favorites]


    That debunking doesn't mean she hasn't, in person, left the door open in any number of interviews when conspiracy theorists ask her to validate their beliefs. (This was talked about some on Last Week Tonight the other night. She specifically offered to reopen the 9/11 commission again, for example)
    posted by Archelaus at 6:22 PM on October 18, 2016 [14 favorites]


    MeFites United team members: A word of warning, if you leave the team (as I just did, trying to figure out how to show a friend how teams work) it erases all record of your existence and it doesn't come back when you rejoin. *sob* I made 26 calls today! Poof! Gone!
    posted by HotToddy at 6:23 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    That seems like not a good use of perfectly good peanut butter.
    posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:23 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    I don't know wtf else you'd do with a jar of low sodium, creamy natural Jif.
    posted by fluffy battle kitten at 6:24 PM on October 18, 2016 [32 favorites]


    Poor Jif
    posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:24 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I mean, who among us in this thread has not wanted to get drunk and smear low sodium, creamy natural Jif. on the cars of Trump supporters?
    posted by zachlipton at 6:25 PM on October 18, 2016 [22 favorites]


    Stein is constantly talking about people having "real questions" -bout vaccines and repeats nonsense talking points about mercury. She's anti-vaxx as fuck, Snopes apparently just don't know how that works.
    posted by Artw at 6:26 PM on October 18, 2016 [42 favorites]


    Last graph of that Snopes on Stein:
    Dr. Stein's stated position is that she "supports vaccinations" and acknowledges that "we have a real compelling need for vaccinations," so it's not true to say that she is on record as holding an anti-vaccination political position. However, her somewhat equivocal statements surrounding that issue allow for a fair bit of leeway and interpretation — many others who proclaim to "support vaccinations" in concept effectively undercut their positions by raising objections to the "vaccination process" or the "vaccination industry."
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:27 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    Poor Jif

    Is that pronounced with a hard or soft J?
    posted by michswiss at 6:27 PM on October 18, 2016 [25 favorites]


    Not everyone agrees about the Snopes conclusion.

    What people do seem to agree on is that Stein constantly panders to anti-vaxxers.
    posted by chris24 at 6:28 PM on October 18, 2016 [38 favorites]


    A woman in Amherst Junction, Wisconsin, has been charged with disorderly conduct after she allegedly spread peanut butter on 30 cars that she believed belonged to Donald Trump supporters.

    Is there a GIF of that?

    Laugh or you're dead to me
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:30 PM on October 18, 2016 [30 favorites]


    I really didn't mean to start a "how anti-vaccinations is Jill Stein?" derail which I don't think is going to help anyone so maybe we can just agree that her album is not good and move on from there*?

    Also the Jif (pronounced with a soft "j") protest should be described as "legumey" and not "nutty".

    *If someone wants to defend the album that's fine as long as they do so in a way that is as least as funny/accurate as the Indigo Girls/RHCP bit from above.
    posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 6:32 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    > Is that pronounced with a hard or soft J?

    Crunchy or smooth, surely.
    posted by Westringia F. at 6:33 PM on October 18, 2016 [15 favorites]


    Poor Jif

    Is that pronounced with a hard or soft J?


    Oh God damn it.

    posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 6:33 PM on October 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


    Friends, the joke's been made; can we save everyone's phones from dying and move off the gif/jif pun?
    posted by miguelcervantes at 6:34 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    The wage thing is kind of a derail but in general, people should get paid for the work they do, not the circumstances over which they have no control. Min wage should apply to every job, no matter how young the worker. And speaking of gaming the system, I once worked somewhere that had a rule you had to hire contractors full time after a year; instead they just "fired/rehired" them under a different contract, just to avoid paying them benefits. Companies will do the shitty thing, and it's best not to make it easy for them. Enforcement of this stuff is crap and lots of people get hurt/shafted before it's caught.
    posted by emjaybee at 6:34 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Jif GIF
    posted by Yowser at 6:35 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Get off, of your phone!
    Smear jif on my ca-aar.
    posted by cashman at 6:35 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Debate thread 23 hours and counting...
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:37 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    It will be fascinating to see how Ryan and Mitchell respond on November 9th, when Trump's train crashes into the mountain of a very real defeat.

    Ryan will concede defeat, even if Trump doesn't. He will note that Trump was a ridiculous embarrassment, which of course means that Hillary does not have a mandate and the Republicans will continue to use their House majority to defend freedom and the American taxpayer. He will then say Look at that incredibly interesting thing over there! and vanish, stage right, for the duration of the initial IT WAS RIGGED IT WAS RIGGED TIME TO WATER THE TREE OF LIBERTY! OKAY YOU GO FIRST freakout by the fringe.

    Mitchell will tweet 69,105 times in 48 hours, then be hospitalized after suffering acute carpal tunnel and trying to stuff his skull into an electrical outlet.
    posted by delfin at 6:40 PM on October 18, 2016 [11 favorites]


    I would like to see Sam Wang eat a bug.
    posted by Scoop at 6:42 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Me too. But not because Trump gets more than 240 electoral votes.
    posted by Justinian at 6:44 PM on October 18, 2016 [27 favorites]


    Condi Rice responds to report Trump called her a 'bitch' in 2006 : 'Can't wait until November 9!'

    His quotes in that article: "Hurf durf deal maker."
    posted by Kitty Stardust at 6:48 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Me too. But not because Trump gets more than 240 electoral votes.

    Yes, just as a feature.
    posted by Scoop at 6:50 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Has this "strategic-use-of-debate-invitation-to-ruffle-your-opponent" thing happened before in presidential debates? I can't remember hearing anything about who anyone invited to them before - closest thing I can think of is the attention paid (sometimes) to people in the galleries at a State of the Union Address...
    posted by Golem XIV at 6:50 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    A bit of levity - just in case you didn't see this moment from when Hillary appeared on Ellen Degeneres' show after the debate.

    I don't know which I like better - the goofy clip itself, or how Hillary is reacting to it by laughing her ass off.
    posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:50 PM on October 18, 2016 [32 favorites]


    > The built-in argument is that they're not working with the same skill, as they lack general skills that an older employee would have. Almost any job is improved by workers having life experience that lets them deal with situations outside the norm; teenagers lack a lot of that.

    This is not a good argument (how much life experience does one need in order to be, for instance, a decent busser or dishwasher?). I had worked longer than my older co-worker, and in your scheme, as soon as I passed that magic line of 18 years I'd automatically be allowed to make more money even I'd never worked a day in my life, and my 16-year-old co-worker would make less even if she'd been working for two years. But this is a derail so I'm done.
    posted by rtha at 6:51 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Voter registration system crashes in Va., preventing some from signing up in time
    A civil rights group is filing a federal lawsuit to force Virginia to extend its voter registration period after the state’s online system crashed Monday, the last day to register, preventing an unknown number of voters from getting on the rolls.

    One registrar estimated that “tens of thousands” of Virginians had been unable to register by the cutoff at 11:59 p.m. Monday, although the state elections commissioner, Edgardo Cortés, said the number was unknown...

    “The right of eligible Virginians to vote should not be victim to a technological failure that is no fault of their own,” Kristen Clarke, president of the Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law wrote to Cortés.

    But Cortés said the deadline was specified in state code, which provides no option for an extension. “We don’t have any legal authority to extend the registration deadline,” he said.
    posted by peeedro at 6:52 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    ChurchHatesTucker: "Debate thread 23 hours and counting..."

    So, I was waiting for the next round of oppo to droppo yesterday with enough time to percolate until the debate on Wednesday, just like the Access Hollywood tape. Then I remembered that the Access Hollywood tape wasn't actually opposition research in the traditional sense. It just happened to be the end result of a sequence of coincident events, starting with an Access Hollywood producer reading an AP article about Trump's crude behavior on The Apprentice and ending with NBC's foot-dragging about releasing the tape causing someone to leak it to the Washington Post just in time to be an issue during the town hall debate. As far as I know, the Clinton campaign wasn't really involved in it whatsoever. The main oppo droppo directly attributable to the Clinton campaign so far was the Machado Maneuver... which Clinton launched during the first debate. I guess my point is, I'll be listening very carefully to that third debate.
    posted by mhum at 6:54 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    If we all got enrolled automatically we could stop worrying about the damn registration deadines.
    posted by emjaybee at 6:55 PM on October 18, 2016 [74 favorites]


    Canada technically has registration, but it's not mandatory.

    Mandatory registration is voter disenfranchisement on a mass scale. (Hugely imho)
    posted by Yowser at 6:58 PM on October 18, 2016 [11 favorites]


    drezdn: The Scholastic kids poll, which apparently has been right since the 60s, has Hillary at 52% and Trump at 35%.

    The current cohort of Citizenship In The Nation merit badge students in my son's Boy Scout troop in northern Rhode Island voted for President on Sunday. Trump got 5 votes, Clinton got 3 or 4, and Johnson got 1 vote.

    Given the most likely source of the political opinions voiced by boys age 12, someone may or may not have observed, "Well, now we know whose dad smokes weed."
    posted by wenestvedt at 6:58 PM on October 18, 2016 [11 favorites]


    Top Indiana election official alleges more voter fraud - DAMMIT INDIANA, PLEASE STOP BEING HORRIBLE.
    posted by fluffy battle kitten at 6:58 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Mandatory registration is voter disenfranchisement on a mass scale. (Hugely imho)

    Who with the what now?
    posted by emjaybee at 7:00 PM on October 18, 2016 [21 favorites]


    However, a leading election official in Hamilton County, also a Republican, said labeling the discrepancies as fraud was a hasty conclusion.

    By Trump standards, it was careful consideration, in that there was thought put into it.
    posted by tonycpsu at 7:01 PM on October 18, 2016


    dis·en·fran·chise
    ˌdisənˈfran(t)SHīz/
    verb
    deprive (someone) of the right to vote.
    "the law disenfranchised some 3,000 voters on the basis of a residence qualification"
    deprived of power; marginalized.
    "a hard core of kids who are disenfranchised and don't feel connected to the school"
    deprive (someone) of a right or privilege.
    "a measure that would disenfranchise people from access to legal advice"
    posted by Yowser at 7:01 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Well I guess technically you are registering when you're in line at the voting booth in Canada.
    posted by Yowser at 7:02 PM on October 18, 2016


    Mandatory registration is voter disenfranchisement on a mass scale. (Hugely imho)

    Who with the what now?


    I think Yowser is interpreting "mandatory registration" as "everyone needs to register before they can vote" while others are interpreting it as "everyone is registered by the government."
    posted by dhens at 7:04 PM on October 18, 2016 [24 favorites]


    Canada technically has registration, but it's not mandatory. Mandatory registration is voter disenfranchisement on a mass scale.

    I'm very confused. I was thinking mandatory registration might mean that everyone is required to register. It's true that you're not somehow forced to register in Canada. But I don't see how registering everyone would disenfranchise anyone. I mean maybe you mean metaphorically that they've lost their choice not to register, but they still have the choice not to vote, so what difference would it make?

    Then I thought maybe you meant mandatory to register in order to vote. I can see how that might disenfranchise people, especially if registering is cumbersome. But you are required to register if you are going to vote in Canada, so then the first part doesn't make sense. It is a lot easier to register: You can check off a box on your income taxes requesting to register, there are registration booths set up every which place at election times (e.g. the main lobby of subway stations, the main lobby of my condo building, streetcorners, etc.), and of course you can register on election day at the polls. But if you don't register, you can't vote.
    posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:05 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    OH, did you mean people shouldn't need to register to vote? Because I meant, everyone gets registered without effort and can vote easily. This is possibly a derail so memail me if you mean something else.
    posted by emjaybee at 7:05 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    What I love about this is, Trump may not have the best memory, but he knows what he has done, absolutely knows it. How many Tums do you suppose he scarfs just waiting for all those shoes to fall, how many, what color, how old, and what countries those shoes come from? I want to know about the Russian businesses, or his covert divisions that operate in Russia, under opaque umbrellas. He has excellent translators.
    posted by Oyéah at 7:05 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    >But Cortés said the deadline was specified in state code, which provides no option for an extension. “We don’t have any legal authority to extend the registration deadline,” he said.

    "We don't have any legal authority to take away anybody's right to vote, so of course there'll be an extension," said the reasonable person in charge of this in Non-Bizarro Universe, which sadly is apparently not where I live.
    posted by Sing Or Swim at 7:06 PM on October 18, 2016 [12 favorites]


    Condi Rice responds to report Trump called her a 'bitch' in 2006 : 'Can't wait until November 9!'

    Yeah. Bummer about your complicity in the horrible deaths of thousands of innocents though. Still, lookin' great Condi, you working out? K byyyyyeee!

    Whazza? Hm? Oh! Ha ha, no. No, we didn't forget. About "that". Ha ha. Yeah, no.

    Nnnnooope.
    posted by petebest at 7:07 PM on October 18, 2016 [10 favorites]


    That Indy Star article totally misses the point. It's not that maliciously changing voter registration to fraudulently vote would be hard. Yes it would. But changing registration info in a state that insists it is 100% correct before letting someone vote to disenfranchise thousands would be incredibly easy.
    Logging in to make registration changes requires only a voter’s driver’s license number. That information is contained in a copy of every county’s voter database, a public record already in the hands of political parties, campaigns, the media and others, Bangert reported.
    what

    4chan could wipe out Indiana voting in a day.
    posted by ctmf at 7:07 PM on October 18, 2016 [17 favorites]


    He suggests it sounds like the Indigo Girls backed by The Red Hot Chili Peppers.

    As a fan of both of those bands and as someone with weird musical tastes, that actually sounds awesome!

    So I listened to a couple of tracks from Jill Stein's band and I have to say the above is incorrect. It should have read "...it sounds like a fifth-generation clone of Joan Baez from an alternate universe where cloning works but not very well backed by a couple of random teenagers who once attended a Red Hot Chili Peppers concert."
    posted by mmoncur at 7:07 PM on October 18, 2016 [28 favorites]


    I registered in line for the last Canadian Federal Election.

    The idea of having to register and then having to vote just seems like one step too many.
    posted by Yowser at 7:08 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]




    I took Yowser's point that any kind of registration process more complicated than "oh, you're not already registered, here you go, now you are registered, and here's your ballot" at voting time is going to disenfranchise.
    posted by R343L at 7:12 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    I mean, you end up in the longer line if you haven't registered weeks before like is mandatory in the US, but that's it.

    Derail ends.
    posted by Yowser at 7:13 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I found Stein's folk rock album kind of endearingly nostalgic. It's the kind of thing you heard all the time in the late 90s in a liberal college town. That said, I think that Snopes debunking is kind of weak sauce: it's true that she expressed some (IMHO kind of tepid) support for vaccination, but she does have a tendency to be super dogwhistle-y about conspiracy theories including vaccination in a way that disturbs me. If you look at the last line of that Snopes article, they even agree:
    However, her somewhat equivocal statements surrounding that issue allow for a fair bit of leeway and interpretation — many others who proclaim to "support vaccinations" in concept effectively undercut their positions by raising objections to the "vaccination process" or the "vaccination industry."
    Which, yeah, pretty much explains why I'm super not feeling her comments in that AMA.
    posted by en forme de poire at 7:13 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Relatedly, Tina Podlodowski, who is running for Secretary of State here in Washington (which controls elections) is pushing for same-day registration.
    posted by R343L at 7:14 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    How voter registration works in Canada: If you are a new immigrant and/or have a current provincial driver's license and/or have submitted an income tax return to the CRA, you are placed on the National Register of Electors.
    An accurate list of electors is the cornerstone of any democracy, and the National Register of Electors helps provide this. The Register exceeds Elections Canada's target levels for coverage and currency; at the start of the 42nd General Election, 92.7% of all eligible voters were included in the Register, with 90.9% of this group at their current address. The target levels are 92% and 80%, respectively.

    Maintaining the National Register of Electors means it is easy for eligible voters to register and to have their information kept current. Electors who have registered once do not have to register again at every election call. In addition, the National Register of Electors allows Elections Canada and other electoral agencies to increase the accuracy of registrations while saving taxpayer money, thanks to data-sharing agreements.
    You can also register online, by mail, at your local Elections Canada office, or at your polling place the day of the election, although that has become more complicated lately because of Tory-mandated changes requiring certain forms of ID. During the election season, you may also expect Election Canada workers to show up at your door to confirm your registration.

    And if you don't want the convenience of being continuously registered via the Register, you can opt out and register on the fly during each election.

    I cannot imagine dealing with the American registration system. Can't. Even.
    posted by maudlin at 7:16 PM on October 18, 2016 [11 favorites]


    “No. That was a nightclub in New York,” Blitzer cut in, reminding Trump’s attorney he was bringing up a different claim made by photographer and former model Kristin Anderson — and not the assault at Trump’s resort on Stoyonoff.

    Man, this Cohen guy again...

    I can maybe see a case where you want some tough guy jerk of an attorney to represent you in a courtroom, but he never even wins in these short appearances with cable tv anchors. How does a guy like that perform in front of a judge? Who would want to hire him after this campaign?
    posted by krinklyfig at 7:17 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    4chan could wipe out Indiana voting in a day.

    State-based registration is mostly bullshit. State-based Voter ID laws are bullshit. State-based digital election systems are scary messes.

    Canada's national register and registration process (and ID rules) work even within the context of a federal system. It's that "peace, order and good government" thing, plus no ongoing history of systematic disenfranchisement.
    posted by holgate at 7:17 PM on October 18, 2016 [13 favorites]


    Mark Cuban is coming back to troll Trump at the third debate: 'Can't wait to give a big hug to my bestie'

    Along with Hewlett Packard Enterprise CEO Meg Whitman, a prominent Republican backer of Clinton, Cuban was announced as a guest for the Wednesday night debate in Las Vegas.

    Meg Whitman being there is like triply trolling Trump. She's an actual billionaire, a woman, and a Republican working against Trump.
    posted by airish at 7:19 PM on October 18, 2016 [40 favorites]


    Re: Condi. He said she was a "bitch" for having her picture taken and not getting "good deals." I mean, Furiosa knows she's got plenty to answer for, but his basis for critique was just way off base here.
    posted by Kitty Stardust at 7:19 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Who would want to hire him after this campaign?

    Nobody, but he'll be fine as long as Trump has money to pay him with. Granted, that might not be that much longer. . . .
    posted by Spathe Cadet at 7:24 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Companies will just do the shitty thing ...

    Hire a gal, put her in division a. Nine months in, move to dividing b, loaned to division a. Diversity numbers are a mess. Move her to o division c, on loan to division a. She never even needs to switch desks, computers, or credentials.

    It happens now. Setting up special employment rules won't change it.
    posted by tilde at 7:30 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Wait, so in the American system I would have to re-register every election?
    posted by peacheater at 7:30 PM on October 18, 2016


    Wait, so in the American system I would have to re-register every election?

    No, only when you move.
    posted by ZeusHumms at 7:33 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Kathy Griffin: Mirrors (NSFW - language)
    posted by nathan_teske at 7:34 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Oh hey, turns out that the Trumpster's new BFF Malik Obama is a big fan of Hamas.

    I guess that whole extreme vetting thing is working out super good, huh?
    posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:35 PM on October 18, 2016 [68 favorites]




    I voted today!
    That Trump fellow? I like the sag of his spinnaker, but when it comes right down to it I thought I'd vote for the candidate that isn't actively trying to undermine the electoral process.
    The guy asked me if I wanted a sticker.
    "Of course I want a sticker. That's the only reason I vote!"
    posted by Floydd at 7:38 PM on October 18, 2016 [19 favorites]


    Wait, so in the American system I would have to re-register every election?

    No, only when you move.


    And how it used to work in Florida (and still may) if you notify your county office you have moved to a new county, they simply deregister you and don't effing TELL you so you show up to vote at your new precinct and CANT. #askmehowiknow
    posted by tilde at 7:40 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Wait, so in the American system I would have to re-register every election?

    Depends on the state, but usually you're automatically reregistered if you vote in the past n elections.
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:41 PM on October 18, 2016


    Laura Benanti’s Melania Trump Endorses Hillary on ‘Colbert’

    "Grabbing women by the BillyBush" cringelol
    posted by FelliniBlank at 7:44 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]



    I guess that whole extreme vetting thing is working out super good, huh?


    He's constantly thinking he has some new, undiscovered oppo on fucking HIllary Clinton and Barack Obama, the two politicians most hated and despised by the Republican Party. Son, there ain't nothing new there that hasn't had millions of taxpayer dollars used to dredge up already. Stop trying to make this oppo happen. It's not going to happen.
    posted by soren_lorensen at 7:48 PM on October 18, 2016 [34 favorites]


    State-based registration is mostly bullshit. State-based Voter ID laws are bullshit. State-based digital election systems are scary messes.

    Canada's national register and registration process (and ID rules) work even within the context of a federal system. It's that "peace, order and good government" thing, plus no ongoing history of systematic disenfranchisement.


    Canada is also full of Canadians.
    posted by srboisvert at 7:52 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    America has never been interested in universal enfranchisement, quite the opposite. The vote has always been restricted to only the "right" kinds of people, and that definition changed only slowly and usually through violence or the threat of it.

    The Republican party fought every single expansion, and would prefer to go back to only white, male property owners, like tomorrow. I'm pretty sure that's still in their official platform.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 7:57 PM on October 18, 2016 [19 favorites]


    I'm pretty sure that's still in their official platform.
    Just look for the words"Founding Fathers' Original Intent".
    posted by oneswellfoop at 8:01 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    I'd love to see them try to oppose universal automatic registration, though, just to see what evil genius bullshit they're able to spin out of thin air.

    And I'd love to see the Dems push for it even more.
    posted by schadenfrau at 8:03 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Oh god, I had forgotten that the Al Smith dinner is Thursday, immediately after the guy who cannot take even a tiny joke or say anything remotely amusing on his best day comes off of whatever crazy shitshow he puts on tomorrow night. Man, that dinner could reach "Hannibal Season 2 finale" levels of unpleasantness.
    posted by FelliniBlank at 8:08 PM on October 18, 2016 [15 favorites]


    I'm surprised Trump was invited to the Al Smith dinner (apparently they don't always invite both major candidates?)
    posted by Yowser at 8:10 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Oh hey, turns out that the Trumpster's new BFF Malik Obama is a big fan of Hamas.

    Hoo, boy! All the folks over at AIPAC are going to love this!
    posted by Chrischris at 8:13 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    11 states + DC have same day registration, Canada-style: Colorado, Connecticut, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Minnesota, Montana, New Hampshire, Wisconsin, Wyoming, and Washington DC. California is in the process of implementing it and a couple others have voted for it (Vermont, Hawaii, RI). North Dakota has no voter registration at all. I think all states allow you to register at the DMV while doing drivers' license business which is very convenient for a lot of people (not all!) and is how I've always registered when I move because you have to update your license anyway.

    My registration basically just stays active forever in Illinois, and for the last few years they no longer check your voter registration card (which is still mailed to you just as a courtesy so you know where to vote and what your districts are), and they're NOT ALLOWED to ask for ID; you give your name and address, sign the register, and theoretically they signature match but mostly they just keep the register in case someone challenges it (because, HEY, people don't voter-fraud in person!).
    posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:14 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    I'd love to see them try to oppose universal automatic registration

    "You want to let the government make a national registry of every citizen with your name, address, and voting history?" This isn't that hard. It's even reasonable compared to the kind of conspiracy theories that get to hold court these days.
    posted by J.K. Seazer at 8:15 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    He suggests it sounds like the Indigo Girls backed by The Red Hot Chili Peppers.

    It's a shame she didn't go full trip-hop and/or Ray Of Light-era Madonna. Never could I consider voting for someone who doesn't respect the things I hold most dear.
    posted by octobersurprise at 8:18 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    I mean, the headline writes itself: "Trump Invites Foreign, Anti-Israel Muslim Activist to be Debate Guest of Honor". It's like some kind of ultimate intersectional Trumpian shitshow trifecta!
    posted by Chrischris at 8:20 PM on October 18, 2016 [16 favorites]


    Here in PA we get no early voting or no-reason absentee voting, or same-day registration, but our voter ID law got struck down and the only time you have to show anything (a bill with your current address will do) is the first time you vote in your precinct. I don't have to show anything when I go vote, I just tell them my name, they check me off on the roll, and I go vote.

    I recently moved (within the same precinct) and when I changed my address on my registration (done online) I somehow got sent like 10 copies of a new voter card. (They all have the same voter ID #, I made sure I'm not actually registered 10 times--just 10 copies of the same registration.)
    posted by soren_lorensen at 8:21 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    This morning, I went to see Bernie at a get out the vote rally for Hillary.

    This evening, I did my weekly phone-banking. I talked to a young woman who asked my why I was supporting the New Mexico Democratic slate. I told her that the climate was my main issue, it was going to affect the world for generations to come, and that Democrats are the only who are going to do anything about climate change. She liked that answer.
    posted by maurreen at 8:21 PM on October 18, 2016 [37 favorites]


    "Trump Invites Foreign, Anti-Israel Muslim Activist to be Debate Guest of Honor"

    Whoever lent Trump their copy of The Magic Christian needs to demand he give it back. NOW.
    posted by Rykey at 8:27 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Malik Obama is sitting in the front row wearing a red cap, but when you look closely you'll see it says "Make Israel Palestine Again".
    posted by oneswellfoop at 8:33 PM on October 18, 2016 [11 favorites]


    Hamas has a humanitarian side too guys!

    I'm bringing back MeFi, 2003 style.
    posted by Yowser at 8:38 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Any internals come from KellyannePOLLS. That's what she does.

    It also means they're lies, lies, lies. Even if they look good for the Democratic Party, there's an ulterior motive.
    posted by Yowser at 8:40 PM on October 18, 2016


    As a favor to, well, just about everyone's collective sanity, how about we very much not make this the Hamas: pros and cons thread?
    posted by zachlipton at 8:44 PM on October 18, 2016 [18 favorites]


    Is there a debate tomorrow night? Ha ha ha! No, seriously!
    posted by Oyéah at 8:44 PM on October 18, 2016


    Volunteer update: I canvassed again today, this time alone. This had the advantage of letting me do things my own way, but the disadvantage of not having another brain to help me figure out the maniacal numbering of a certain apartment complex. This place was a devil's labyrinth, and took up a whole lot of my shift.
    (Seriously, I follow a row of doors numbered in ascending order, in the 20s. The wing comes to an abrupt end at #26, but there's a stair... leading to a balcony with just four apartments, numbered 63-66. I mean, come ON, man. Give a girl with a clipboard a break.) I never did find a sad number of the addresses there, but I tried my best. I passed this one cat about five times; he eyed me with increasing suspicion as I wandered by.

    I was out there for nearly five hours, and finished my packet with the exception of the mysteriously hidden apartments.

    I'm also confirmed to see Michelle Obama on Thursday, and I am SO EXCITED even though it means I won't be getting much sleep for the next couple of days so I can get work done to leave me the time free. I don't care; it's totally worth it.
    posted by Superplin at 8:46 PM on October 18, 2016 [48 favorites]


    Pineapples don't have sleeves.
    posted by ctmf at 8:51 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    I just watched Steve Schmidt get very emotional about the vote rigging rhetoric on The 11th Hour. It's heartening in a weird way to see a Republican as concerned and upset as I am by this destructive garbage spewing from Trump's mouth.
    posted by xyzzy at 8:52 PM on October 18, 2016 [14 favorites]


    "You idiot! Don't make them look more closely at the voting process!"
    posted by ctmf at 8:55 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    "You want to let the government make a national registry of every citizen with your name, address, and voting history?"

    ...yes. Go ahead and make it opt out.
    posted by schadenfrau at 8:57 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Pineapples don't have sleeves.

    Uh, what?
    posted by annsunny at 8:58 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Pineapples don't have sleeves.

    You can't spell homeowner without meow.
    posted by TwelveTwo at 9:02 PM on October 18, 2016 [45 favorites]


    Hamas has a humanitarian side too guys!

    Yes but it doesn't wear scarves bearing the phrase "Jerusalem we're coming for you!"
    posted by Talez at 9:08 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]




    We had a special lunch at work today to discuss "the state of civil discourse" (we're a nonprofit; can't appear partisan). It was an intense and valuable conversation, though at one point my male boss quoted something Trump had said that was similar in tone to something said to me once; hearing that out loud, my stomach physically turned and I almost left the room.

    But it was something else that I can't get over. One of my coworkers told us that yesterday her 10-year-old daughter got off the school bus and said to her, "Donald Trump can do anything he wants. He can kiss women. He can hug women." And my colleague--a tough, older single mom--sighed this wrenching sigh and said, "I knew I'd have to have that discussion with her, but I didn't think it would be yet... But I did it."

    This kid...her mom brings her to the office often, so I've gotten to see her grow up from about age 4. She's the BEST--bold and goofy and opinionated!--and it kills me that even the tiniest bit of that spark might have been muted yesterday by hearing for the first time how some people would like to treat her.

    Like her mom, I hate that it had to happen while she's still a little girl. But she's female, and she's tall for her age, and she's black, and based on many, many women's experiences this is likely to start being an issue for her frighteningly soon.

    The proximate cause of needing to have a conversation about sexual assault and harassment now was Donald Trump, sure. But the social conditions that makes that conversation necessary and applicable to her own life long predate this campaign, and they're all of our fault. This is breaking my heart.
    posted by hippugeek at 9:10 PM on October 18, 2016 [56 favorites]


    Video clip of the Steve Schmidt segment mentioned above. (Not sure how long the clip will last on youtube.)
    posted by Blue Jello Elf at 9:11 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    said the owl, upon googling....
    posted by annsunny at 9:12 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Trump alma mater's newspaper endorses Clinton

    In a joint editorial with the official student publication of Clinton's alma mater, Wellesley College, The Daily Pennsylvanian editorial board wrote that the Republican nominee "failed to dignify the morals of his institution."

    "Donald Trump has, in the past, brought up his education at the Wharton School to qualify his intelligence and capability; however, overall campus sentiment toward Trump remains negative, and he has been protested both at Penn’s campus and in the wider Penn community," the board argued.

    posted by airish at 9:32 PM on October 18, 2016 [24 favorites]




    On voter registration: if you have a driver's license or file tax returns, the government knows your name and address. Why shouldn't you be automatically registered? What is gained by making you jump through an additional hoop to prove something you've already proven?

    Here in Oregon there was a deadline in advance (today) but everyone is now automatically updated when they get a driver's license or chance their address with DMV, and that's exactly as it should be.
    posted by msalt at 9:38 PM on October 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


    "You want to let the government make a national registry of every citizen with your name, address, and voting history?"

    oh no what if they find out my social security number too
    posted by rifflesby at 9:39 PM on October 18, 2016 [78 favorites]


    Oh, another cryptic tweet by an insider that we're supposed to take seriously.

    Put up or shut up, people. You're not Lucy and we're not Charlie Brown.
    posted by Justinian at 9:56 PM on October 18, 2016 [10 favorites]


    A lot of times they can't 'put up' because they're sworn to secrecy on something - on a recent Keepin' It 1600 they mentioned that they'd recorded an earlier episode with Katy Tur only hours before the pussy tape dropped, and she told them 'something was about to drop' but couldn't give any details. And that episode wasn't even going to be posted until after the drop.

    Now, as for the 'shutting up', sure.
    posted by showbiz_liz at 10:02 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    I don't mean in general. But "wait, a bad story about Donald Trump is about to drop!" is like the worst prediction ever. I could have posted that every night for the last 3 weeks and been right every time.
    posted by Justinian at 10:07 PM on October 18, 2016 [16 favorites]


    "Something is about to happen" = "PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD I NEED YOU TO THINK I'M RELEVANT"

    Details, scoop, or GTFO. "I know something you don't know" got old in elementary school and it isn't any cooler from adults.
    posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:11 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    To be fair, they usually are followed by stories that would sink any other candidate, but for trump they don't break the ever rising barrier of horror to qualify as shocking. If Mitt Romney had been revealed to have abetted a sexual abuser who worked as an analyst at Bain, then that would've been a fucking bombshell. trump does it with Gary Busey and people are like "fuck it, throw it on the pile."
    posted by codacorolla at 10:15 PM on October 18, 2016 [41 favorites]


    I would guess it means that someone everyone would agree or Trump has flat out said is hot is going to come forward with a harassment charge. Maybe even someone that everyone knows.
    posted by chris24 at 10:30 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    if you have a driver's license or file tax returns, the government knows your name and address. Why shouldn't you be automatically registered?

    There is no "the government" here. Does the state DMV have on record that I'm not a US citizen? No. Would it know if I became one? No. There's barely interoperability between the vital records systems and voter registers of different states. You're meant to bring a pile of paperwork acquired at your own expense if you move to another state, a lot like how your doctors will fax 80 pages of your records to each other or give you 200 pages of records to pass on.
    posted by holgate at 10:33 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Scuttle-butt around that "coming soon" tweet is that it's in reference to a savage Keith Olbermann rant that's about to drop which will so thoroughly eviscerate Trump that he will have no choice but to immediately quit the race and flee to Russia where he will beg Vladimir Putin for asylum. [fake]
    posted by Atom Eyes at 10:37 PM on October 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


    or maybe there's a usuncut article or something
    posted by dersins at 10:40 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Ex-F.B.I. Official Acknowledges Role in New Clinton Email Controversy

    "A former F.B.I. official at the center of the latest controversy over Hillary Clinton’s private emails acknowledged on Tuesday that an offer to swap favors with a State Department counterpart on an email classification issue had originated with him — until he realized the deal involved Mrs. Clinton and the 2012 attack in Benghazi, Libya.

    “When I found that out, all bets were off; it wasn’t even negotiable,” the former F.B.I. official, Brian McCauley, said in a telephone interview."

    Nothingburger.
    posted by chris24 at 10:54 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


    > There is no "the government" here. Does the state DMV have on record that I'm not a US citizen? No.

    If you've gotten a job recently, the website that your employer has to fill out with the I-9 certainly know about your citizenship status (as well as your passport photo to verify against the physical passport you provide), and the Social Security Administration will you if their status for you doesn't match the USCIS records, for those that have been naturalized. I don't know what's on the backend, but the fact that the DMV doesn't know your citizenship status is certainly political, as with most other seemingly ridiculous DMV limitations, rather than some fundamental technologically unsolvable problem.
    posted by fragmede at 10:58 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


    I'm waiting for Trump to trot out Bat Boy in the final debate to make this election complete.
    posted by mazola at 11:05 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    My problem with automatic registration is voter ID records are public

    In Oregon if I know your full name and birthday I can see your ballot, change it, even see the address it can be mailed to, aka my house.

    There is a program to opt out, but usually it takes a court document to justify. Hard to do if you're a victim of online harassment where they don't take doxxing or swatting seriously and you might not have a case until after you've been harassed. For a lot of people, in many cases women who've been subject to stalking and domestic violence, registering to vote is not as simple as it appears. Your stalker or abuser could now find your new home.

    I'm all for voter ID. I'm very much aghast at how little privacy protection there is around that information (since the political parties require it). In Oregon they give you a PO Box for all your state address needs, but only if you apply for it and pass their minimum filter for it. In other states it's so hard it's safer to not register to vote locally and vote absentee for an old address or through another persons addressx
    posted by mrzarquon at 11:06 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


    I'm waiting for Trump to trot out Bat Boy in the final debate to make this election complete.

    That might be the only thing he could do that could make me support...Nah, who am I kidding. I'd give the irredeemably degenerate pervert credit for a well played move I guess, but really, that's all I could stomach...
    posted by mikelieman at 11:19 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


    I'm waiting for Trump to trot out Bat Boy
    Well, the Weekly World News was published by the same company as the National Enquirer (I considered it the more reliable of the two publications) and the Enquirer's owner is a known supporter/contributor of The Deplorable Donald (no official endorsement from the paper, but I've noticed a HILLARY SCANDAL headline on every issue I've seen in a check-out line for the last year). Anyway, they could definitely haul out Bat Boy for the last debate (though he might've worked better in the Town Hall format), or they could just have Ed Anger (remember him?) shove Chris Wallace off the stage and im-moderate the debate...
    posted by oneswellfoop at 11:21 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Does the state DMV have on record that I'm not a US citizen? No

    In Oregon it does, and probably everywhere else as well. Citizenship is generally a requirement for a driver's license, and where it isn't, it's a hotly debated issue that requires some kind of notice that you aren't a citizen to get the license.

    In Oregon if I know your full name and birthday I can see your ballot, change it, even see the address it can be mailed to, aka my house.

    I don't understand what you're saying. Strangers can change my ballot?!?

    If either driver's licenses or voting records present a safety risk to people who are being stalked, that should be addressed on it's own merits, but not by making it harder to get registered or to vote.
    posted by msalt at 11:51 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]


    We had a special lunch at work today to discuss "the state of civil discourse"

    Yeah, this is the first election that is significantly effecting my work-life (we make medical equipment) just by its tone. We're not a political company at all, but our weekly production and sales goals reports have a little section where the boss writes in some analysis of how we're doing, and the election has been a part of it for a couple months now. Sales are significantly down for us right now in what is usually one of the busiest times of the year, and people are less willing to spend extra money on stuff right now. The sales team has been briefed on how to handle customers who are aggressively and openly political (non-partisan, but it's the Trumpers who really want to talk about stuff.), and our one non-white salesperson has been rejected by customers at a significantly increased rate, and for being a a wide variety of possible ethnicities (Everything from 'Mexican' to 'Arab' with some 'Indian' and a baffling 'Black' accusation tossed in. I actually don't know how she'd describe her race and I can't really hazard a guess either, but it turns out Trump supporters can manage to be racist even when they don't know what race someone is.

    Oh, and my flat-earther, anti-vax, Wal-Mart FEMA death camps Alex Jones conspiracy theory nutjob co-worker is voting Clinton and has seemingly not swallowed a single conspiracy theory about her, which I cannot explain but am quite pleased about.
    posted by neonrev at 11:53 PM on October 18, 2016 [41 favorites]


    "If the prospect of President Trump is frightening, imagine his supporters’ reaction if he loses" (South China Morning Post)
    posted by Mister Bijou at 12:01 AM on October 19, 2016


    it turns out Trump supporters can manage to be racist even when they don't know what race someone is.

    ▢ White
    ▢ Other
    posted by mikelieman at 12:02 AM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    I live in Utah and I'm lucky because I work for my own business and for a business in California in my own office at home.

    I can say with some confidence that if I had an office job for the last year, I would have quit after one too many arguments with Trump supporters.
    posted by mmoncur at 12:03 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Make that...
    ▢ White Enough
    ▢ Not
    posted by oneswellfoop at 12:05 AM on October 19, 2016 [19 favorites]


    In Oregon it does, and probably everywhere else as well. Citizenship is generally a requirement for a driver's license, and where it isn't, it's a hotly debated issue that requires some kind of notice that you aren't a citizen to get the license.

    Every state in the US issues driver's licenses to resident non-citizens, and I have never heard this debated. You might be confusing 'citizenship' with 'legal presence' - only 12 states issue drivers licenses to foreigners without legal residency in the US. I believe that any state that requires legal residence will at least indirectly have the information of whether or not you are a citizen just by which documents you produce to prove your legal presence.
    posted by the agents of KAOS at 12:11 AM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    I had a bizarre conversion today about the film "The Revenant" with an old friend. It started off normally enough but digressed into a lengthy, angry rant about how the "liberal media" misrepresented the bear attack scene as a sexual assault. Now, I happen to know that that bear rumor initiated at The Drudge Report (link is to Vanity Fair) which is hardly a bastion of liberal thought. I mentioned this and he insisted that Drudge picked up the story from mainstream liberal media. There is no evidence of this and no convincing him otherwise.

    This is minor in the scheme of things but I can't wrap my head around this infallibility of the rump right information sources thing. It's OK to admit you're wrong every once in a while particularly when you're actually, demonstrably wrong.
    posted by Joey Michaels at 12:18 AM on October 19, 2016 [15 favorites]


    If you admit that your "rump right information sources" (great wording) are wrong every once in a while, it's a slippery to realizing the entire world view they promote is totally wrong, and then what do you have to hold onto?
    posted by oneswellfoop at 12:31 AM on October 19, 2016 [16 favorites]


    how did I forget to put the word "slope" after "slippery"? well, good night, everybody!
    posted by oneswellfoop at 1:07 AM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Is it just me and the meds I'm on, or has this thread gotten almost Dadaist?

    At this point I can't effectively tell if I'm high or y'all are high or, well what combination of "both" is the correct answer.
    posted by threeturtles at 2:18 AM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    We're just filling up the end of this thread with bullshit while waiting for tomorrow's debate thread to post.
    posted by ryanrs at 2:26 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    If we're getting silly at the end of the thread, how about Helen Mirren roasting Trump.

    "Per Variety, at a recent luncheon for her film Eye in the Sky, vocal Hillary Clinton supporter Mirren said that Trump had an “enormous body, small head,” and “dinosaur-y hands.”
    posted by chris24 at 2:37 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Haters are gonna say that it's Photoshopped.

    Yeah, that's the imgur link to the clip from ELLEN I posted up thread if anyone wants to see that instead.
    posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:21 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    > Citizenship is generally a requirement for a driver's license

    It most certainly is not! Immigrants on work visas, student visas, and green cards are completely eligible to obtain drivers licenses in every state. (Can you just imagine what would happen to the economy if H1B worked couldn't drive to their jobs?)

    In addition, 12 states + DC offer drivers licenses to non-visa status foreigners, allowing even undocumented immigrants to legally hold drivers licenses. However, these are special temporary visitor licenses that are different from the "normal" licenses that documented immigrants & citizens obtain.
    posted by Westringia F. at 3:26 AM on October 19, 2016 [14 favorites]


    @JuddLegum
    1. It's been just 9 DAYS since the last presidential debate. Let's review what's happened.
    2. Speaker Paul Ryan said he will no longer "defend" Trump (but still endorses him)
    3. Trump repeatedly attacked Paul Ryan on Twitter
    4. A Congressman said he might continue to endorse Trump even if Trump said "I really like to rape women"
    5. Audio emerged of Trump, in 2005, bragging about how he could walk in on pagaent contestants when they were naked
    6. Four women come forward on the same night alleging that Trump sexually assaulted them
    7. Trump told a female New York Times reporter who talked to two of the women: "You are a disgusting human being."
    8. Trump's lawyer sent this ridiculous letter to the New York Times demanding it retract the sexual assault story
    9. Video emerged of Trump, in 92, looking at a 10-yr-old girl & declaring "I am going to be dating her in ten years”
    10. Jerry Falwell Jr. said he will vote for Trump even if Trump committed sexual assault
    11. Trump said the women who are speaking out are too ugly for him to sexually assault
    12. Trump attempted to disprove allegations of one women w/an "eyewitness" account of a notorious liar from England
    13. A sheriff and prominent Trump supporter openly called for riots
    14. Trump said an SNL parody of him is evidence that the election is "rigged"
    15. Trump said election is being rigged "at many polling stations"
    16. Trump blamed the firebombing of a North Carolina GOP office on "animals representing Hillary Clinton"
    17. Melania Trump says, as First Lady, she would focus on combating online bullying
    18. Melania Trump said that her husband only bragged about committing sexual assault because he was egged on by Billy Bush
    19. People Magazine reporter accusing Trump of sexual assault produced 6 people to back up her story
    20. Trump claimed that Obama only won North Carolina in 2012 because of undocumented immigrants voting
    21. Trump tried to kiss a little girl without asking
    22. So I know I missed a lot of stuff but all of those things happened in the last 9 DAYS
    posted by chris24 at 3:44 AM on October 19, 2016 [68 favorites]


    Some media personality needs to do an exhaustive list of the insane shit Trump has said and done in this campaign and go through it point by point. All of it. It would be guaranteed to go viral. And it would be a public service.
    posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:05 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Citizenship status is technically not required for a driver's license but in most states residency status is. Many states will not issue a driver's license with an expiration date past the expiration date of a noncitizen's visa or green card. So these states implicitly, if not explicitly, collect the citizenship status of their state ID cardholders. But not all states; some expressly disregard citizenship status.

    We're a federated republic here. When it comes to matters of government at the state level, all generalities are dangerous
    posted by ardgedee at 4:07 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    I can't really give this Rick Wilson tweet (brought up upthread) much credence when he's also continuing to tweet that Trump was a Clinton plant.

    My guess is he's alluding to Ivanka's divorce filing describing Donald assaulting and raping her. If that leaks, it would have to come from Ivanka, Trump, or counsel for either, which I think would be really unlikely. It was filed under seal so I don't think there would be a copy at the courthouse; legal recordkeeping has changed so dramatically since then that it might not be electronically filed anywhere, even in the law firms' records. (Perhaps Marla and her pumpkins somehow got and kept a copy.) The author who wrote the bio of Trump in which the rape was first described said he lost Ivanka's filing describing the incident during a move.
    posted by sallybrown at 4:15 AM on October 19, 2016


    I think you mean Ivana.
    posted by pxe2000 at 4:18 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    I do! Agh I keep doing that. My bad.
    posted by sallybrown at 4:22 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Y'all, I just got back from Brazil. Most of you are aware that there's kind of a mess with their federal government right now, with the Dilma impeachment and the Lula arrest and whatnot. If I had a reai for every time I was asked, "Trump, WTF, America?" I'd have a lot of money right now. I'm off to Chile in a few days, I expect to hear the same questions, only in Spanish this time.
    posted by wintermind at 4:25 AM on October 19, 2016 [15 favorites]


    I do! Agh I keep doing that. My bad.

    Given the creepiness of Loser Donald, it's really not surprising.
    posted by mikelieman at 4:25 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Not everyone agrees about the Snopes conclusion. [Regarding Stein and anti-vaccination]

    Snopes position on political smears is that they do not and can not check dog whistles and associations - it would be mission creep way beyond their normal assessment as to whether things are true or false. Stein isn't herself anti-vax but she encourages them and dog whistles to them - which is worse.
    posted by Francis at 4:28 AM on October 19, 2016 [11 favorites]


    Rubio seems to be growing some ethics (conveniently the day after the Miami Herald endorsed Murphy):

    "I will not discuss any issue that has become public solely on the basis of Wikileaks. As our intelligence agencies have said, these leaks are an effort by a foreign government to interfere with our electoral process and I will not indulge it. Further, I want to warn my fellow Republicans who may want to capitalize politically on these leaks: Today it is the Democrats. Tomorrow it may be us."

    (via twitter). The internal polling must be tight.
    posted by sallybrown at 4:30 AM on October 19, 2016 [36 favorites]


    Some media personality needs to do an exhaustive list of the insane shit Trump has said and done in this campaign and go through it point by point. All of it. It would be guaranteed to go viral. And it would be a public service.

    I've contemplated doing a sort-of-longform breakdown of each bizarre/horrifying thing that has happened since September 26th, but every time I'm ready to start, I realize that it'll take me a few days to finish, so by the time I'm done writing it up, there will be two more even less believable, even more heinous things to add to the list. And by the time I finish dissecting THOSE, there'll be another crazy thing in the midst of happening, and... well, Achilles is never quite going to reach the turtle, y'know?

    I hereby dub this phenomenon "Trump's Paradox," and hope it can join the pantheon with his Razor and Mirror.
    posted by Mayor West at 4:37 AM on October 19, 2016 [16 favorites]


    I watched the first two debates and part of the VP debate, but I'm gonna sit this one out. They've just left me feeling degraded, and I see no reason to expect this one will be different. (Quite the opposite, in fact - at this point, we're beyond even the pretense that this is anything other than an opportunity for Trump to vomit santorum for 90 minutes on international TV.) I'll just catch the recap, thanks.
    posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:39 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    NPR is doing something right now about Trump's sponsorship of the skating rink in Central Park. Trump often claims that he swooped in and fixed up the rink out of the kindness of his heart, but

    1. The city is saying that he was paid,
    2. The city also suspects he may regularly tweak his reportings of income to the city on the rink, and
    3. Others say that they did most of the work.

    Oh, and now they're already on to a failed golf course project in the Bronx.
    posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:40 AM on October 19, 2016 [11 favorites]




    The tweet in question: @randygdub "i love working at the post office in Columbus, Ohio and ripping up absentee ballots that vote for trump
    "

    Somehow the Ohio Sec of State had trouble determining that was satire
    posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:44 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    (btw, I have no idea what (MeFi's own) Scott Adams has been up since he was last mentioned in this thread, but this just showed up in my feeds with a "lol here we go again" framing, so I guess he's done something silly again. Not going to look now.)
    posted by effbot at 4:47 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    exhaustive list of the insane shit Trump has said and done

    It scrolls off the screen like Star Wars titles. No one could keep their eyes open and their mind on task for more than a few weeks' worth of this list.

    Maybe if someone like Adele could sing the list?
    posted by spitbull at 4:49 AM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Future US Poet Laureate Bob Dylan is great at singing lists of things.
    posted by mmoncur at 4:52 AM on October 19, 2016 [14 favorites]


    (mefi's own) Scott Adams
    Man do I never want to hear about Scott Adams again... he hasn't been been "mefi's own" in years either. While appreciating it's an old inside joke, I find that expression an insult to current mefites, and suspect no one outside of metafilter even cares what a washed up mediocre cartoonist from the 90s thinks.
    posted by spitbull at 4:52 AM on October 19, 2016 [40 favorites]


    I hereby dub this phenomenon "Trump's Paradox," and hope it can join the pantheon with his Razor and Mirror.

    Paradox is too grand. Razor and Mirror are great because they remind us of what he's probably doing when he's away from the cameras. It should be something ignoble like, Trump's Bubbleguts.
    posted by cashman at 4:54 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    New Arizona poll from the Arizona Republic

    Clinton 39
    Trump 34
    Johnson 6
    Stein 1

    +/-4.3%
    October 10-15

    Outside the margin of error :)
    (via twitter)
    posted by sallybrown at 4:54 AM on October 19, 2016 [20 favorites]


    Prediction: Next big Trump reveal, ending his campaign once and for all, is a tape of him advocating the declawing of cats.
    posted by DanSachs at 4:55 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    (btw, I have no idea what (MeFi's own) Scott Adams has been up since he was last mentioned in this thread, but this just showed up in my feeds with a "lol here we go again" framing, so I guess he's done something silly again. Not going to look now.)

    He thinks that he's been shadowbanned by Twitter for his views, which he claimed was "treason," a crime that he was planning on charging them with for violation of his 1A rights. He then accused people that were calling him out on it of "cognitive dissonance," and being part of a conspiracy of the Clinton campaign. One of these tweets mentioned his tendency to blame women for everything as maaaaybe being the problem, to which he responded "5% of my followers are female. So no." in what he apparently believes is a withering comeback.

    I'm not making any of this this up, he really seems to have no idea what most of the words and concepts in that previous paragraph actually mean. I think the Trump meltdown has triggered one in him, because if his Twitter feed is any indication, he's having some real issues (outside his usual ones) with what's happening right now.
    posted by zombieflanders at 5:01 AM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    I favor the declaring of cats in carry-on baggage.
    posted by spitbull at 5:02 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    > I have no idea what […] Scott Adams has been up since he was last mentioned in this thread

    He proclaimed Matt Bors a failed cartoonist
    posted by farlukar at 5:02 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Scott Adams is the idiot's Gary Trudeau.
    posted by spitbull at 5:04 AM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    - just another futile reminder that we never have to talk about Scott Adams at all, he's just one person who's much less interesting than he portrays himself to be, and he need never be mentioned again -
    posted by sallybrown at 5:04 AM on October 19, 2016 [39 favorites]


    That AZ poll I mentioned upthread has dropped, right on schedule:

    Clinton: 39
    Trump: 33.9
    Johnson: 5.9
    Stein: 0.5

    Almost 42% of those who say they're voting for Trump didn't vote in 2012, compared to almost 14% of Clinton voters. This could be because they skipped the election, weren't yet eligible in 2012, or hadn't registered. Considering the breakdown by age (only about 16% of Trump-favoring poll respondents were in the 18-35 age bracket), it seems like a lot of folks are engaging specifically to vote for him.
    posted by Superplin at 5:05 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Damn, sorry for the duplicate of sallybrown's info. On my phone that took me a while, and the thread's too long for preview to work.
    posted by Superplin at 5:07 AM on October 19, 2016


    I'll be watching the debate tomorrow. I even changed my start time for work so I could. I'm just a little bit obsessed at this point. To be clear, this is not for entertainment; it's feels more like self-defence.

    My son has been talking incessantly about Pokemon to me for the past few days and I've told him that I'm not really interested and how would he like it if I started talking about my latest obsession and he said sure so I rattled off 30 minutes worth of US election thoughts at him on the way home and he's only mentioned Pikachu once since so that's where I'm at.
    posted by h00py at 5:10 AM on October 19, 2016 [94 favorites]


    Wisconsin (St. Norbert College poll, likely registered voters, Oct. 13-16)

    Clinton 47
    Trump 39
    Stein at 3
    Johnson 1
    posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:11 AM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    You have more details than I did, Superplin:

    Almost 42% of those who say they're voting for Trump didn't vote in 2012, compared to almost 14% of Clinton voters. This could be because they skipped the election, weren't yet eligible in 2012, or hadn't registered. Considering the breakdown by age (only about 16% of Trump-favoring poll respondents were in the 18-35 age bracket), it seems like a lot of folks are engaging specifically to vote for him.

    The three big uncertainties this time that won't be solved until Election Night seem to be:

    - If Johnson gets far fewer votes than polls would predict (as seems to be common with third party candidates), do those supporters stay home? If they vote for Trump or Clinton, do they do so proportionally or go heavily for one or the other?

    - How much will Clinton's superior turnout operation matter (can't think of anything resembling this year in terms of the disparity of turnout operations)?

    - Do the "new" Trump voters actually show up?
    posted by sallybrown at 5:13 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    do the "new" Trump voters actually show up?

    This assumes Trump's new-voter supporters can read a ballot.
    posted by spitbull at 5:17 AM on October 19, 2016


    - Do the "new" Trump voters actually show up?

    Maybe I'm being overly glib, but we're talking about the kind of person who sees Donald Trump running roughshod over the Republican primary field, and whose first reaction is "hot damn, now THERE'S someone who gets it!" and immediately goes out and registers to vote after a lifetime of apathy. Something tells me "high levels of civic engagement" is not their strong suit.
    posted by Mayor West at 5:21 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Do the "new" Trump voters actually show up?

    I think of this in these terms. I start with the 27% who are definitely showing up and voting for Loser Donald.

    Then I look at the poll numbers, and everything above that are, to me, people who show up for the tailgate party before the rally, and stay for a while but leave early to avoid traffic on the way home.

    MOST of them probably aren't showing up on election day.

    Ideally, 73 - 27, but +30 seems reasonable.
    posted by mikelieman at 5:21 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Almost 42% of those who say they're voting for Trump didn't vote in 2012

    You're misreading. 42% of those who didn't vote in 2012 say they're voting for Trump (this was only about 10% of the survey respondents).
    posted by uncleozzy at 5:27 AM on October 19, 2016 [15 favorites]


    Oh! One number I missed on my first pass, because sideways scrolling on a phone is a PITA: nearly 21% of those polled--all classed as likely voters--said they're still undecided.

    I've had a few people tell me while canvassing that they're undecided, but I usually assume they just don't want to talk about it with a stranger (perfectly legit). But in a poll... I genuinely cannot grasp how someone actually planning to vote could be undecided at this point.

    Anyway, if those folks do actually show up at the polls, they'll determine where our electoral votes go.
    posted by Superplin at 5:27 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Ah, uncleozzy, you're right. That document reader is so unfriendly on my screen I should probably give up trying to make sense of it until I'm in front of a proper computer.
    posted by Superplin at 5:30 AM on October 19, 2016


    an offer to swap favors with a State Department counterpart on an email classification issue had originated with him — until he realized the deal involved Mrs. Clinton and the 2012 attack in Benghazi, Libya.

    “When I found that out, all bets were off; it wasn’t even negotiable,”


    So, how is this not the FBI guy admitting to an agenda to make Clinton look bad? Isn't he saying compromises on classification of documents could be made and were possibly common, unless it was about Clinton?
    posted by dnash at 5:30 AM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Almost 42% of those who say they're voting for Trump didn't vote in 2012, compared to almost 14% of Clinton voters. This could be because they skipped the election, weren't yet eligible in 2012, or hadn't registered. Considering the breakdown by age (only about 16% of Trump-favoring poll respondents were in the 18-35 age bracket), it seems like a lot of folks are engaging specifically to vote for him.
    posted by Superplin


    - Do the "new" Trump voters actually show up?
    posted by sallybrown


    That's the big question, sallybrown, and probably: no. At least, not in the same numbers as Clinton's more faithful voters. It's pretty well-established (WaPo) that past voting behavior is a much more reliable indicator of voter turnout than self-reported intention to vote. Included in that, presumably, is the greater likelihood that non-2012-voters are not registered to vote, do not know where there polling place is, or are unfamiliar with standard procedures (e.g., poll opening and closing times).
    posted by duffell at 5:31 AM on October 19, 2016


    I think you guys are seriously underestimating the Trump supporters. The ones who show up to tailgate the rally, the ones who "immediately go out and register to vote after a lifetime of apathy" - OF COURSE they will get out and vote for Trump. They are excited to! They want to give the finger to Hillary and/or government in general. They want to watch the world burn. They are as excited to get out on voting day as we are.

    Luckily, there aren't nearly enough of them to actually let him win, but Clinton is not gonna win by the huge margin she absolutely fucking should win by, in a just world. And on November 9th, all of these Trump supporters will claim the election was rigged, because they did vote for Trump, and so did everybody they know in their insulated bubble of hate.
    posted by Roommate at 5:32 AM on October 19, 2016 [10 favorites]


    Speaking as an Outsider - I've assumed that party loyalty is such that it adds a tremendous inertia to the decision to move away from the party. So they're not undecided between Clinton and Trump so much as they are between not voting Republican and voting for Trump. I can see that this would be a genuine struggle for some people.
    posted by Grangousier at 5:33 AM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    For some reason I'm actually most nervous about Johnson voters and undecided likelies showing up across the nation and deciding to go with Trump. There's a good big chunk of them. :-/
    posted by sallybrown at 5:44 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Maybe. I just think if they've taken the time to actually register to vote, it's not a big leap to think they found out where to go on voting day at that time.
    posted by Roommate at 5:44 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I'm waiting for Trump to trot out Bat Boy in the final debate to make this election complete.

    The real question is who the Weekly World News's alien would have endorsed. Wait, I think we know!

    Waiting in the checkout line hasn't been the same since WWN went away.
    posted by aught at 5:48 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    So, how is this not the FBI guy admitting to an agenda to make Clinton look bad? Isn't he saying compromises on classification of documents could be made and were possibly common, unless it was about Clinton?

    I think he's saying compromises could be made unless an issue was clearly hugely controversial already. He is imagining what it would look like if word got out the FBI had compromised with Clinton on Benghazi as opposed to just about any other issue.
    posted by Mothlight at 5:48 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    There's no need to ask "well what if all these Johnson voters break for Trump" because there has been plenty of two-way polling, often by the same outfits doing four-way polling. And Clinton still leads in the two-ways, sometimes by an even greater margin.
    posted by showbiz_liz at 5:57 AM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    and suspect no one outside of metafilter even cares what a washed up mediocre cartoonist from the 90s thinks.

    Well, no, my 78 y.o. dad was telling me on the phone yesterday how hilarious Dilbert is. (He's a long-retired IBM engineer.) I diplomatically told him I don't get the local paper delivered anymore so I haven't read it for... a long time.
    posted by aught at 5:58 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Trump's tape has prompted both the former first lady of Washington state (Mona Locke) and a South Dakota candidate for the House (Paula Hawks) to come forward as victims of sexual assault.

    There have been a bunch of stories here about friends/family of Mefites coming forward. I know it made me consider for the first time that some things men have done to me in the past do count as sexual assault (it still feels like something I don't *deserve* to say because it "wasn't that bad" and it didn't affect me that much - oh, apart from being scared to walk alone at night, scared to go out to dinner or a bar alone, scared to travel alone, scared to travel for work alone with a male colleague, scared to be too friendly lest I give men, even my male friends, "the wrong idea"...sigh).

    This campaign was so ugly and brought visceral fear and pain into the lives of so many people. Not that it's worth it, but if what comes out of this is a permanent change in the way we perceive, talk about, and refuse to accept sexual assault, that itself would be a very positive thing.
    posted by sallybrown at 5:59 AM on October 19, 2016 [53 favorites]


    Worried about Election Day violence? It's nothing that a polite but firm poll worker (and active shooter training) can't fix. (NPR print article link)
    posted by instamatic at 6:04 AM on October 19, 2016


    Once again, we are lavishing disproportionate attention on the angry white Trump voter. Even if more of them get fired up to vote (which I think is doubtful), what about the pissed-off Latino voters? What about the seriously energized professional women? What about previously apathetic atheists fighting the hypocrisy of the evangelical vote? All of these are exactly as likely as some coal-rollin' Trump wave.
    posted by argybarg at 6:08 AM on October 19, 2016 [25 favorites]


    A couple from the Washington Post:

    Five things to know about presidential debate moderator Chris Wallace

    I didn't watch the primary debates so I missed this delightful story:

    Chris Wallace is a hero, and slides are his superpower
    posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:09 AM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Yeah I can't find the link cause I'm on my phone but in NC, Democrats and independents are requesting ballots at slightly elevated rates from 2012 while Republicans are currently at a mere 60% of 2012 requests. Republican turnout is SUPER depressed.
    posted by showbiz_liz at 6:12 AM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    The undecided despise Hillary for irrational reasons, but are rational enough to realize they'd be cutting off their noses to spite their fucking faces to elect an incompetent sociopathic narcissist to actually be in charge of stuff like nukes and law enforcement. In the sacred holy privacy of the voting booth they tend to weigh most heavily their own damn bottom lines, and their own actual bottoms in this case.

    I also think there's a hidden anti-Trump vote from people who will come to their senses at the moment of truth -- with white working class women having extra motivation for this. The psychology of this is well documented. And it's abetted by desire to back a known winning team before the decision is official. Trump hasn't provided any plausible or even implausible reason he'd be safer than Clinton says he will be for profits and the future of humanity. (The heart of his campaign's political malpractice.) Added to the last-minute-nopers, as I've said here before and others have observed as well, there's empirical reasons to think women in particular might say one thing to pollsters and their families and communities and even to themselves up until the moment of voting and then do another when alone with a ballot. Trump is -- as so movingly documented right here on mefi -- triggering lots of trauma out there among women, but unlike metafilter and the culture of woke and educated and millennial folk -- a lot of women can't say much or anything about this trauma to anyone they can trust with it. I think the chance to strike back at every gross boss and absuive partner and misogynist co-worker will be tempting to at least a couple percent of white working-class women voters, and I know and love more than a few such women in places where you'd almost take your life in your hands if you publicly said you were voting for her.

    These women are not passive or stupid or clueless about feminism or misogyny -- quite the contrary, they live it every day with even less protection than women of the educated classes enjoy, and they fucking well understand resistance in the face of overwhelming sexist domination from living with it every day. Yea, maybe some women identify with the oppressor or don't experience gendered abuse and sexism regularly (in their view). But contrary to stereotype, and based on years of drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes and listening to blue collar women talk in Texas, Arkansas, Illinois, and other places (which I did professionally for a decade, it's complicated) I think everyone is missing a modest hidden anti-Trump vote.

    TLDR: polls are missing pissed off white working class women.
    posted by spitbull at 6:15 AM on October 19, 2016 [42 favorites]




    Maybe. I just think if they've taken the time to actually register to vote, it's not a big leap to think they found out where to go on voting day at that time.

    Particularly since they would have been mailed a shiny new reg card which will have their polling place printed on it, and which won't yet be wrong because of relocation or redistributing.
    posted by phearlez at 6:25 AM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    The voting booth will believe you.
    posted by whuppy at 6:25 AM on October 19, 2016 [33 favorites]


    The voting booth will believe you.

    Can I get this on a million T-shirts, please.
    posted by Etrigan at 6:31 AM on October 19, 2016 [14 favorites]


    Hi, I'm MeFi's Own™ petebest. With a MegaThread reminder to use the "Classic Theme" for superior readability and smooth flavor that lasts.

    Look for it at the bottom of every page, or in the Preferences section of your login.

    For the best response to election memes,
    Don't forget that Classic Theeeeeeeme!


    *jazzhands*
    posted by petebest at 6:34 AM on October 19, 2016 [74 favorites]


    Also, to make it easier to find election threads, use My Mefi, and set the preferences to only use "election election2016" as tags.
    posted by ZeusHumms at 6:40 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    @CBSThisMorning
    To say that elections are rigged… that’s like saying we never landed on the moon, frankly. -- @JohnKasich
    posted by chris24 at 6:42 AM on October 19, 2016 [10 favorites]




    Stephanie Reuhl just played the Obama "stop whining" clip for Kellyanne and then grinned at the camera, Jim Halpert style.
    posted by schadenfrau at 6:45 AM on October 19, 2016 [11 favorites]


    Mark Cuban bombshell: I personally know women who have been assaulted by Trump who won’t come forward:
    During a telephone interview with CNN”s Don Lemon, billionaire Mark Cuban was asked if he was surprised by all of the women who have come forward to accuse GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump of sexually assaulting them.

    His answer: not at all.

    “Have ever heard of anything like these women coming forward or him being untoward?” host Lemon asked him.

    “Yes,” Cuban told the clearly surprised CNN host.

    “You have?” Lemon asked.

    “Yes, and I know one. “Cuban continued. “And it just didn’t happen recently. My friend reminded me and it was from 2000 and she, you know, I don’t expect her to come forward. I wouldn’t recommend she come forward. I know somebody else from two years ago that won’t come forward. So you know, it’s not anything that caught me by surprise.”
    posted by palindromic at 6:45 AM on October 19, 2016 [55 favorites]


    @CBSThisMorning
    To say that elections are rigged… that’s like saying we never landed on the moon, frankly. -- @JohnKasich


    Is Kasich really defending the electoral process here, or is he just dogwhistling to the Infowars wing of his party?
    posted by dersins at 6:46 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Kasich has been anti-Trump this whole process. I think he's calling Trump a nutcase.
    posted by Elementary Penguin at 6:47 AM on October 19, 2016 [20 favorites]


    That's the beauty of being smooooooth John Kasich. We hear "voting isn't rigged" and they hear "so you agree we never landed on the moon AND the vote is rigged!"
    posted by spitbull at 6:49 AM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]



    I wish the Mark Cuban would quit doing things that make me like him.

    I also wish that I could be a fly on the wall where Trump finds out (or sees) Cuban on national TV talking about this.
    posted by Jalliah at 6:49 AM on October 19, 2016 [13 favorites]


    Is Kasich really defending the electoral process here, or is he just dogwhistling to the Infowars wing of his party?

    Saying the election is rigged?! That's like saying jet fuel can't melt steel beams!
    posted by dis_integration at 6:51 AM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Someone should ask Mark Cuban why, then, he was willing earlier on to sign on to be Trump's VP... having already known DJT had assaulted at least two of Mark's friends.
    posted by clever sheep at 6:52 AM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    You know, something I was thinking about back when the primaries were still a thing: the Republicans had a dozen or so ridiculous choices lined up on display like the shittiest Choose Your Own Adventure book where every option led to "Sorry, your next president is a Democrat." And I was so excited about that, the prospect that maybe for the first time in decades a major political party would hold a third consecutive term in the highest office of this nation, and

    man this is almost embarrassing to type out

    and maybe the Republicans would look at this loss and have a moment of introspection. Maybe they'd be forced to say, "Wow, our policies really are not in line with the will of the American public. Maybe the extreme right nutjobs have pulled us too far off course. How can we best re-center to serve this country?"

    and then oh my god Trump happened and everything turned to shit, and you - my fellow MeFites - of all people know exactly what a supremely weird and gut-wrenching roller coaster this has been. As I've mentioned in one of these threads (Christ only knows which one) I'm in Louisiana and it's doubtful that our Duck Dynasty- and Jindal-supporting state is going to go anything but hard red but I am STILL just SO EXCITED to go vote for Clinton and every other D on the ballot (including Foster Campbell who believes climate change should be a priority). I've never been this worked up about politics in my life - but then the stakes have never seemed higher. I am so frequently grateful that this grabby idiot pig somehow got himself selected because, God, if this race had actually been about issues then someone else in that wacko baker's dozen might have had a decent chance against Clinton.

    I'm off track here; let me circle back around. It just occurred to me this morning that the thing that initially had me excited about this election is still likely: an unprecedented-in-recent-history third consecutive term for one of the major parties. I have nothing but doubts and confusion and fear about the fractured state of the Republican party after this whole debacle, though, and I'd wager that their leadership shares that sentiment. I'm sure there'll be plenty of introspection but I bet it won't be the type for which I was initially hopeful.
    posted by komara at 6:53 AM on October 19, 2016 [43 favorites]


    So I just realized just how big Cuban is trolling Trump.

    Yesterday there was this.

    @mcuban
    Cant wait to give a big hug to my bestie @realDonaldTrump at the debate tomorrow night. I know you miss me !

    And then he's on CNN.

    edited (Not on CNN this morning, corrected for right timing)
    posted by Jalliah at 6:53 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Vox is reading our minds: There's a new “silent majority,” and it's voting for Hillary Clinton

    I love this article and it's the last one I'm gonna read before leaving for the gym, where I hope I'll find that the cardio room TV which is usually on CNN is still broken.
    posted by EatTheWeek at 6:55 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Of the many people I had never heard of before Trump began his quest for the brass ring, Mark Cuban and Omarosa have been the most entertaining. And ok Katrina Pierson.
    posted by spitbull at 6:59 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    TLDR: polls are missing pissed off white working class women.

    Meredith is the new Soccer Mom.
    posted by tivalasvegas at 7:01 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    I just watched Steve Schmidt get very emotional about the vote rigging rhetoric on The 11th Hour. It's heartening in a weird way to see a Republican as concerned and upset as I am by this destructive garbage spewing from Trump's mouth.

    Steve Schmidt and Nicole Wallace seem to have been profoundly affected for the better by their time working for Sarah Palin. Amd speaking of Sarah Palin, was she abducted by aliens? This election seems like the kind of shitshow in which she was born to wallow.
    posted by Room 641-A at 7:04 AM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    I think Cuban is going to run for Senate or Governor in Texas to prepare for a serious run at the Presidency in 2024.
    posted by humanfont at 7:05 AM on October 19, 2016




    Yeah that Vox article is by Yglesias and it is excellent. The point is that the silent majority of NixonIan fame is now a fading minority and not going silently into that dark night. And that the real silent majority is significantly more brown, female, urban, and at the poorer end of the new working classes.

    Also interesting for the way it locates Trump as the price paid by the Republican Party for Bush II: The Fuckening Up.
    posted by spitbull at 7:09 AM on October 19, 2016 [14 favorites]


    From the Vox article linked above:
    But ability to perform anger without coming across as the wrong kind of person is still a privilege in the 21st-century United States, and the new silent majority values other forms of representation that a woman can bring to the table over the performance of rage that her rivals bring.
    Yeah, that.
    posted by tivalasvegas at 7:10 AM on October 19, 2016 [38 favorites]


    Let's not not forget Schmidt and Wallace GAVE US Sarah Palin.

    Their recent contrition is a good start.
    posted by spitbull at 7:13 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    The panic is beginning’: GOP strategist Steve Schmidt predicts Election Day disaster for Republicans

    publican strategist Steve Schmidt sees a landslide victory for Hillary Clinton and possible Democratic majorities in both the U.S. Senate and House.

    Schmidt told MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” on Wednesday morning that Clinton was currently “trending over 400” electoral votes, based on recent polling, and he said Republicans are freaking out over the real possibility of losing their majorities in both houses of Congress.

    “If this election was today, I think Republicans are down 25 seats (in the House), as of today — with the trend line going in the wrong direction,” Schmidt said.

    posted by Jalliah at 7:13 AM on October 19, 2016 [22 favorites]


    Potomac Avenue, I had no clue I needed that in my life. Thank you!
    posted by clever sheep at 7:18 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Schmidt told MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” on Wednesday morning that Clinton was currently “trending over 400” electoral votes, based on recent polling, and he said Republicans are freaking out over the real possibility of losing their majorities in both houses of Congress.

    Does this guy have polls that other's don't? The best I can see HRC doing with current polling is 358 EV, or 364 if there's a McMuffin Miracle in Utah big enough to put her over the edge.
    posted by dis_integration at 7:18 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Schmidt also the first butthead to kick this argument off for 2017.

    "On Nov 8, Clinton's claims of a mandate will fly in the face of reality. She only won by not being Trump."
    posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:20 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    > "Does this guy have polls that other's don't?"

    Yes, he does. AFAICT the private polling from the GOP (and DNC) are way better and more robust than the public polls that inform the models of EV, 538, and PEC etc.
    posted by Tevin at 7:21 AM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    She won because she's not Trump? Remind me how Trump became the candidate again?
    posted by clever sheep at 7:22 AM on October 19, 2016 [30 favorites]


    Does this guy have polls that other's don't? The best I can see HRC doing with current polling is 358 EV, or 364 if there's a McMuffin Miracle in Utah big enough to put her over the edge.

    He referenced internal numbers and trendlines so maybe he's seeing it from a trend perspective?
    posted by Jalliah at 7:24 AM on October 19, 2016


    Does this guy have polls that other's don't? The best I can see HRC doing with current polling is 358 EV, or 364 if there's a McMuffin Miracle in Utah big enough to put her over the edge.

    I'll see if I can dig them up, but I've seen articles that say internal polling from both the Clinton campaign/DNC and the RNC shows Trump doing worse than the public polls. Huge grains of salt on that, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's what Schmidt is talking about.
    posted by zombieflanders at 7:24 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Does this guy have polls that other's don't? The best I can see HRC doing with current polling is 358 EV, or 364 if there's a McMuffin Miracle in Utah big enough to put her over the edge.

    Georgia, Missouri, Alaska, and Texas are all in play right now. Another Trump breakdown might put her over through sheer attrition of R voters.
    posted by Talez at 7:24 AM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Re Mark Cuban running for office in Texas or nationally.....No. I've known Mark for almost 20 years, that is not going to happen.
    posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:25 AM on October 19, 2016 [13 favorites]


    dis_integration, there's also the long shot TX/AK/GA angle, which might be trending bluer in internal polling (as evidenced by the undercurrent of Republican freakout the last couple weeks).

    If she did win those as well as all the states in your linked map she'd be at 415EV without UT.

    I'm not saying it's likely, but who knows at this point.
    posted by lydhre at 7:26 AM on October 19, 2016


    @CBSThisMorning
    To say that elections are rigged… that’s like saying we never landed on the moon, frankly. -- @JohnKasich


    Is Kasich really defending the electoral process here, or is he just dogwhistling to the Infowars wing of his party?


    For all that Kasich is a member of the "drown the gov't in a bathtub" party, the man is a career politician - he even had a one-on-one with Nixon while he was a College Young Republican. I think he's deeply personally insulted that an orange buffoon is making a mockery of a system he's devoted his entire life to, and I think he really is defending the electoral process.
    posted by soundguy99 at 7:27 AM on October 19, 2016 [34 favorites]


    My friend's uncle works at Nintendo and he said that Shigeru Miyamoto would run for president if he was an American citizen and he spoke English.
    posted by Tevin at 7:27 AM on October 19, 2016 [24 favorites]


    If the GOP's internal polls are showing that things are this bad, then we really might be looking at a case where Texas and Missouri and Indiana and South Carolina go blue. That would break the party entirely, and would mean a decade of chaos as it reorganizes itself. That gives me an instinctive giddy feeling of glee, but it also makes me wonder what the loyalist Trumpistas are going to do when they see that the traditional bastions of the GOP have turned blue.

    I think I've mentioned this, but I hate-read a pro-Trump group on Facebook (specifically to screen-cap horrible racist/sexist things that people post publicly, and email them to their respective bosses and mothers), and they're not just in denial, they're building a bulwark. These are people who don't understand statistics as an abstract concept, who see Trump rallies with 5,000 people and think "this is half the state!" and can't understand how Trump isn't leading by 30 points in the polls. They're also the lunatics with all the guns. I really, really worry about what's going to happen if this turns into the landslide it's being predicted to be, especially as Trump continues to fan the flames of "Hillary can only win if the election is rigged."
    posted by Mayor West at 7:28 AM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    My friend's uncle works at Nintendo and he said that Shigeru Miyamoto would run for president if he was an American citizen and he spoke English.

    He has no respect for the flag! Always jumping on the pole and pulling it down. No, no, he'll never be president.
    posted by uncleozzy at 7:30 AM on October 19, 2016 [56 favorites]


    Doesn't it seem like a bad idea to have the last debate be the Fox News one?
    posted by drezdn at 7:30 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    He has no respect for the flag! Always jumping on the pole and pulling it down. No, no, he'll never be president.

    That's Mario not Miyamoto. I bet you think Zelda is the main character too you fake gamer!
    posted by Talez at 7:31 AM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]




    She won because she's not Trump? Remind me how Trump became the candidate again?
    posted by clever sheep at 7:22 AM on October 19


    There you go again with your "consensus reality" and "logic". Silly sheep, consensus reality logic is for Dems!
    posted by petebest at 7:34 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    I'm visiting my dad in Columbus, OH this week. He hadn't planned on voting, but we've been talking about it and yesterday, he voted early. I'm used to early voting in Montgomery County, MD, where there are 5 early voting locations, where Franklin County only has one, so I was a little nervous about the lines. There was a steady stream of people coming in, but they have plenty of staff and machines, so everyone was moving through quickly. I came in with him to interpret for him, but they had an ASL interpreter! And when someone there saw that he had his sample ballot and a magnifying glass, they offered him one of those full-page size magnifying sheets. There were about 10 people outside electioneering for the Franklin County Democratic Party, none for Republicans that I saw.

    He showed me the ASL signs for the candidates names (these may be regional). Trump's is a finger waving motion over the top of the head to make fun of his hair. HRC's is the sign for "H" combined with the sign for lying. :(
    posted by amarynth at 7:34 AM on October 19, 2016 [38 favorites]


    I'm sure Schmidt has knowledge of internal polling even though he isn't working on a campaign. But he was clearly talking about extrapolating trends from current movements.

    There's good reason to be increasingly confident the current drift toward HRC will continue into Election Day. Normally polls tighten at the end in a competitive race. But they diverge more sharply if there is an obvious impending landslide -- it discourages supporters of the likely loser and attracts fair weather support to the likely winner. We haven't seen this since Reagan/Carter at least, arguably better analogy Is Nixon/McGovern (my first conscious election at 7, my mom's heart was broken for months).

    And of course with each day passing now more early votes come in, more voters make up their minds, more abandon third party protest vote candidates liked Stein and Johnson and Egg, and new polls start dropping daily as all the pollsters want to be right at the end, washing out coverage of other news with a narrative of inevitability.

    And poor Assange keeps rebooting his router.
    posted by spitbull at 7:35 AM on October 19, 2016 [17 favorites]


    For anyone curious about internal vs. public polls, here's a Slate article from a few years ago on the topic that explains why they can get such different results.

    tl;dr public polling likely voter models are kind of bogus
    posted by soren_lorensen at 7:37 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Doesn't it seem like a bad idea to have the last debate be the Fox News one?

    In an ordinary year, no question. This year? I'm thinking maybe holding the final debate in the Fort Sumter of the GOP's civil war is a good thing.
    posted by [expletive deleted] at 7:39 AM on October 19, 2016 [27 favorites]


    > Well, no, my 78 y.o. dad was telling me on the phone yesterday how hilarious Dilbert is. (He's a long-retired IBM engineer.) I diplomatically told him I don't get the local paper delivered anymore so I haven't read it for... a long time.

    I actually read Dilbert in my local paper; it's usually not very good, but it sometimes gives me a chuckle. (Garfield, on the other hand, I don't even look at, and on the rare occasions I do I instantly regret it.)
    posted by languagehat at 7:40 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I really, really worry about what's going to happen if this turns into the landslide it's being predicted to be

    Is there any way we can repudiate these people without turning them into the all-powerful monsters they wish to be seen as? Can we not have our triumphant moment? These dimwits and bigots are about to be kicked to the curb. Can we not look forward to this? I feel like the school is about to rise up in a huge wave against the small pack of bullies. Let's do this!
    posted by argybarg at 7:40 AM on October 19, 2016 [28 favorites]


    I'm still holding out hope that in tonight's debate Clinton manages to push Trump into a frothing rage fit where he literally screams and stomps around.

    If not I'm sure he'll humiliate himself in a somewhat less blatant manner.

    I'm still not convinced that Clinton will take Texas, but Alaska is looking a lot more like it might be a D pickup this year. And even a purple Texas means the R's are going to have to spend money instead of just taking it as a given.

    Doesn't it seem like a bad idea to have the last debate be the Fox News one?

    I'm thinking having any debate on FOX is a terrible idea. Why would the Democrats ever agree to appear on a TV station that is all but explicitly the official news organ of the Republican Party?
    posted by sotonohito at 7:41 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    the Fort Sumter of the GOP's civil war

    *golf clap*
    posted by petebest at 7:41 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    I've known Mark for almost 20 years, that is not going to happen

    It's the peyote habit isn't it?
    posted by spitbull at 7:41 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    "On Nov 8, Clinton's claims of a mandate will fly in the face of reality. She only won by not being Trump." (Erick Erickson)

    Oh, hell no. Fuck this erasure shit. She'll win because black, brown, LGBTQ, immigrant and progressive votes are going to save your sorry white conservative ass and drag your country into the future over your pathetic bleatings.
    posted by tivalasvegas at 7:41 AM on October 19, 2016 [147 favorites]


    And of course with each day passing now more early votes come in, more voters make up their minds, more abandon third party protest vote candidates liked Stein and Johnson and Egg, and new polls start dropping daily as all the pollsters want to be right at the end, washing out coverage of other news with a narrative of inevitability.

    This comment is mostly right on, but I wouldn't totally discount McMullin in Utah. For the first time in fifty years, polling suggests that he MIGHT actually win a state's EVs as a non-major-party candidate. That takes voting for him in Utah from a pretty meaningless drop-in-the-bucket protest vote to a potentially glaring red siren of a protest vote, making it less likely that people will decide to shrug and vote for one of the other guys.
    posted by showbiz_liz at 7:42 AM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Does this guy have polls that other's don't?

    Yes. More importantly, I don't think there's a 400+ victory scenario that doesn't involve a Blue Texas. He's saying Texas looks blue right now.

    That is a death blow to the GOP as a national party.

    >:)
    posted by schadenfrau at 7:43 AM on October 19, 2016 [24 favorites]


    only 12 states issue drivers licenses to foreigners without legal residency in the US

    So this is in the past but just as a reference for the future -- If you say this to aliens in the US or people who know aliens closely, they're going to be confused by this phrasing. Just because you reside in the US, and do so legally, doesn't mean you're a legal resident of the US. "Legal resident" basically means "green card." Whatcha mean is "...without some legal status in the US," which also includes students and H1Bs and TNs and family members of those folks and sooooo maaaaany other legal statuses it's not funny.
    posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:44 AM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    New Save the Day/Whedon ad: Fraud Squad
    posted by salix at 7:45 AM on October 19, 2016 [34 favorites]


    Hilarious and trending:

    #DebateHeadache
    Debates bring headaches; Excedrin® brings fast headache relief.
    Promoted by Excedrin®
    posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:48 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    On Nov 8, Clinton's claims of a mandate will fly in the face of reality. She only won by not being Trump." (Erick Erickson)

    Fuck when we decided you need a huge landslide to govern.
    posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:48 AM on October 19, 2016 [16 favorites]


    Schmidt also the first butthead to kick this argument off for 2017.

    Er just to be clear I confused Schmidt with Erik Erickson because, well you know.
    posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:49 AM on October 19, 2016


    Hey, in language Erickson can process, that's like saying Jesus only conquered death because He wasn't Satan.
    posted by spitbull at 7:50 AM on October 19, 2016 [11 favorites]


    Doesn't it seem like a bad idea to have the last debate be the Fox News one?

    Oh, I forgot the best part of reading pro-Trump groups: they've all turned angrily on Fox News as being a mouthpiece of the hated Establishment. Accusations are flying all over the place about Hannity being a democratic plant, there's some especially noxious stuff directed at Megyn Kelly, contention that when Ailes was ousted that it marked the end of the network as a legitimate new outfit, and the general consensus is that tonight's debate has already been called for Hillary, because Chris Wallace has been leading the charge against #MAGA.

    In any other year, this would be utterly unbelievable, but now it's just the snake eating a little more of itself.
    posted by Mayor West at 7:50 AM on October 19, 2016 [31 favorites]


    Fuck when we decided you need a huge landslide to govern.

    IOKIYAR
    posted by soren_lorensen at 7:50 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Oh Erick. The republicans nominated him and none of the party leaders could stop him. If Americans overwhelmingly pick his opponent, then Americans are disavowing republican failures. Sounds like a mandate to me.
    posted by R343L at 7:51 AM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    GQ: The Desperate Gamble of Scottie Nell Hughes, World's Most Loyal Trump Surrogate
    Hughes likes to say she's the Chelsea Handler of the conservative movement, or that her life resembles that of the fictitious schoolgirl turned pop star Hannah Montana. All of which is to acknowledge that, yes, defending Trump for a living can feel performative and disjointed from reality, but her behavior is also self-conscious. This is a woman who once told The Daily Caller the two books that most touched her soul were the Bible and 50 Shades of Grey. She knows what she's doing and what buttons she's pressing. Her biggest fear then—to continue her metaphor—is not that the forest fire will consume her in its gruesome display of the ol' razzle-dazzle. But she's also wise enough to know that, despite the notoriety she's earning, there's some risk in what she's up to with The Donald. "If Trump doesn't win," she said. "I'm one of, like, five people whose reputations will be affected."

    Already there are head-scratching items that a search of her name will cough up—things she's said since joining the Trump train: "Riots aren't necessarily a bad thing"; she hopes Tim Kaine stops speaking in Spanish so she doesn't have to "brush up on my Dora the Explorer"; a weird threat she sent to Montel Williams via Twitter. Hughes believes any outrage her statements have caused is a result of selective editing or selective hearing. Confronted with criticism, she tends to contort until it's no longer clear what she believes.

    posted by zarq at 7:51 AM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    That is a death blow to the GOP as a national party.

    Not a chance. The GOP is competitive in every other race that's not the presidency. Even Susan Collins operates in lockstep with the party despite being a pro-choice liberal R sent from New England. The Senate is gerrymandered for hard R control past 2018 and the House is long gone without major swings and a bound to be ridiculously difficult 2020 election effort. Gubernationals also happen in mid-terms in 36 states also making sure liberals won't control them for the foreseeable future.

    The GOP is ridiculously dominant in everything but the presidency and they consolidated power in 2010 to ensure unreasonable swings would be required to unseat them. Without a miracle in 2020 the Democrat's lives are going to be a hell of a lot harder. This isn't self-immolation. This is just a speed bump until the real party starts. The Democrats on the other hand need to fight like hell just for the presidency in 2020 to act as a bulwark to the R House and Senate.
    posted by Talez at 7:52 AM on October 19, 2016 [28 favorites]


    This is a woman who once told The Daily Caller the two books that most touched her soul were the Bible and 50 Shades of Grey.

    Spit-take at "touched her soul." Shouldn't FSoG grab you by the whatever?
    posted by spitbull at 7:55 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    (Wait, how can gerrymandering affect Senate seats? They're statewide votes.)
    posted by nobody at 7:56 AM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    Democrats need to retake more state houses and governorships. The Republican Party controls most of those. Also a census year is coming.
    posted by R343L at 7:56 AM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    That is a death blow to the GOP as a national party.

    I 100% said that during 2012 as well. Didn't happen.
    posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:57 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    (This is I am also throwing water on any glee about republicans imploding.)
    posted by R343L at 7:57 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    That is a death blow to the GOP as a national party.

    Not a chance. The GOP is competitive in every other race that's not the presidency.


    I would not have thought it was necessary to point this out, but every other race that's not the presidency is not a national race.
    posted by phearlez at 7:58 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    (Wait, how can gerrymandering affect Senate seats? They're statewide votes.)

    It's not intentional but the current layout of conservatives over most of the smaller states sure as hell ensures an R majority no matter what the national popular vote is.
    posted by Talez at 7:59 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    I would not have thought it was necessary to point this out, but every other race that's not the presidency is not a national race.

    Senate and house seats are races for federal government. It's federal politics. Come on.
    posted by Talez at 8:00 AM on October 19, 2016 [14 favorites]


    (Wait, how can gerrymandering affect Senate seats? They're statewide votes.)

    The more correct term is "malapportioned." The principle of two votes per state leaves highly populated states (which tend to vote Democrat) radically underrepresented and lightly populated states (which tend to vote Republican) radically overrepresented. It also has the effect of shifting the "median Senator" rightward both with respect to each party and with respect to the Senate as a whole.

    In short, nothing good will ever happen in this country until we abolish the Senate.
    posted by gerryblog at 8:01 AM on October 19, 2016 [16 favorites]


    > "Shouldn't FSoG grab you by the whatever?"

    By the Inner Goddess.
    posted by kyrademon at 8:01 AM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]




    Historically, regional parties send elected representatives to Washington from their respective regions. They were still regional parties.
    posted by schadenfrau at 8:03 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    In short, nothing good will ever happen in this country until we abolish the Senate.

    Not to worry! That's on the itinerary for President Trump's first term. When pressed about the possibility of creating a constitutional crisis, he was last heard telling his inner cabal "Fear will keep the local systems in line." [fake]
    posted by Mayor West at 8:04 AM on October 19, 2016 [11 favorites]


    From the really excellent Vox article that sallybrown linked above:
    It’s common for writers to start with the observation that Trump is popular among white voters with no college degree and then fall into shorthand describing his “working class” or “blue collar” appeal as if working-class black and Hispanic voters simply don’t exist.
    I don't always agree with Yglesias, but I agree with this so hard that I may have sprained something trying to find the favorite button to mash.
    posted by joyceanmachine at 8:05 AM on October 19, 2016 [49 favorites]



    In short, nothing good will ever happen in this country until we abolish the Senate.


    I think the development of new urban centers in empty R states is more likely, albeit in the dystopian climate change bubble city sense.
    posted by schadenfrau at 8:06 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    the observation that Trump is popular among white voters with no college degree and then fall into shorthand describing his “working class” or “blue collar” appeal as if working-class black and Hispanic voters simply don’t exist.

    I've heard Joan Walsh pointing this exact thing out a couple of times on MSNBC. Makes me SO happy.
    posted by Sophie1 at 8:07 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    schadenfrau: That is a death blow to the GOP as a national party.

    roomthreeseventeen: I 100% said that during 2012 as well. Didn't happen.

    If Texas turns blue, that is really significant in my eyes.

    But in comparison, GOP can still do plenty of damage at the state and local level:
    ...the Republicans have enjoyed remarkable success in winning governorships and state legislative chambers in recent years. In fact, on the state and legislative levels, the GOP is thriving. Coupled with the fact that Republicans control both the U.S. House and Senate in Washington, the party looks much more competitive at the grass-roots level than the conventional wisdom in Washington would indicate.
    US News, Sept. 29, 2015

    Yes, that's a year old now, and Trump may be seriously damaging the national party, but 2018 looks good for Republicans (comment upthread, direct link to the Rollcall article).

    Let's say the Dems clean up, getting the presidency, Senate and House. The state of the nation and the messages that the GOP spins coming up to the 2018 elections will determine how dead they really are. After all, in 2010 the Democrats lost the House of Representatives, but held on — by a pinkie nail — to the Senate. (NPR article on 10 takeaways from the 2010 election results.)

    If the Dems learn from 2010, things could be different. What does a Democratic majority accomplish in two years? Then there's the state of the nation and world: how is the economy at the local, state, regional, national and world-level? Some of this is within HRC's (general) power to shape, but much is not, and the Dems could be blamed for something going badly, even if the GOP candidates can't directly fix it.
    posted by filthy light thief at 8:09 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    man, I made a comment to a friendly Libertarian about how my knowledge of Libertarianism was limited to sad boys influenced by Ayn Rand and it was like awakening a dragon. Apparently Libertarians are aware of the sad boy Ayn Rand thing and Are. Not. Amused. by it.

    She's a really nice lady and was giving me a ride home from work, so it was one of those things where you just change the subject.
    posted by angrycat at 8:11 AM on October 19, 2016 [19 favorites]


    I just saw this shared on facebook:


    Trump Pence 2016
    A comprehensive site about why you should vote for Donald Trump and Mike Pence
    VOTEFORTRUMPPENCE.com
    posted by phunniemee at 8:11 AM on October 19, 2016 [13 favorites]


    not so fast with all the landslide talk, people

    he could still pivot
    posted by The Card Cheat at 8:12 AM on October 19, 2016 [24 favorites]


    silent majority

    So basically we are living in version of 1968 where the Democrats have nominated Richard Nixon, and the Republicans have nominated George Wallace.
    posted by mubba at 8:12 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    lalex: What are the chances that, in the event of a close Senate outcome, we see a senator switch parties?

    Relevant: list of US Representatives who switched parties (Wikipedia).


    Trump Pence 2016
    A comprehensive site about why you should vote for Donald Trump and Mike Pence
    VOTEFORTRUMPPENCE.com


    I wish it was more than one guy's photo, but instead a wide range of people with the middle finger or thumbs down, with a few words about why they will never support Donald.

    Still, good jab.
    posted by filthy light thief at 8:13 AM on October 19, 2016


    It'd be funny about FSoG if somebody would counter WHAT ABOUT THE TAMPON SCENE because I don't know, how does that fold into the Trumpian world view.
    posted by angrycat at 8:14 AM on October 19, 2016


    She gave you a ride home from work? To what benefit to herself? Rand Wept.
    posted by The Card Cheat at 8:15 AM on October 19, 2016 [38 favorites]


    > VOTEFORTRUMPPENCE.com

    I was hoping for a page that said "List of reasons to vote for Trump:" and then was blank after.
    posted by fragmede at 8:15 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    2018 looks good for Republicans

    It'll be a miracle if we hold North Dakota and Montana. Indiana, Missouri, Ohio and West Virginia are flat out gone. 2020 is maybe Colorado, and Maine for Ds and by some miracle, North Carolina. There's no way to reclaim the Senate once the dust of this reformation has settled in 2020.
    posted by Talez at 8:16 AM on October 19, 2016


    not so fast with all the landslide talk, people

    he could still pivot


    He already has several times, but it's a 360° pivot every time.
    posted by Celsius1414 at 8:16 AM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    WaPo The Daily 202: The Supreme Court will be a focus of tonight’s presidential debate
    Will Clinton re-nominate Garland? Watch for her to once again dodge on this. She’s called him “extremely well qualified,” and she’s relying heavily on Barack Obama to get her across the finish line in November. The president sees getting Garland through during the lame-duck as a top priority and a legacy achievement, but Clinton privately wants to pick someone who is younger and more liberal than the 63-year-old moderate.

    Will Trump commit to nominating only people who are on his list of 21 potential picks? Aides have said the list is definitive, but the reality TV star has suggested during interviews that he might go another direction. And he has a very long history of not being true to his word. A few of the people Trump floated have chastised him. Utah Sen. Mike Lee, on the second installment of Trump’s list, subsequently called on the GOP nominee to drop out. And, amusingly, federal appellate court Judge Diane Sykes (who was in the first batch of names released by Trump) ruled earlier this month against Mike Pence. She said the Indiana governor cannot interfere with the distribution of federal funds to resettle Syrian refugees in his state.

    -- For many conservative intellectuals, stopping Clinton from appointing Scalia’s replacement is no longer a good enough reason to support Trump. Among the Republican politicians who have capitulated, such as Ted Cruz, holding the Scalia seat is a favorite talking point to justify supporting someone who they privately see as dangerously authoritarian. But 29 top conservative legal scholars have signed onto a letter arguing that it is not enough. The “Originalists against Trump” do not believe Trump would protect the Constitution. And they do not trust him to actually pick from his list of 21.
    posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:18 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    appeal as if working-class black and Hispanic voters simply don’t exist.

    This was a failure point in the democratic primary. I still run into former Sanders folk who insist he won working class dem primary voters.

    He decidedly did not unless you (maybe) mean white working class voters.
    posted by spitbull at 8:18 AM on October 19, 2016 [18 favorites]


    He already has several times, but it's a 360° pivot every time.

    File footage
    posted by Mayor West at 8:19 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    So Bill O'Reilly and Barack Obama have told Donald to stop whining.

    Remember when when Donald said we're going to win so much ... we're going to win so much, you may even get tired of winning ... Mr. President, it's too much, and I'll say it isn't, we're going to win more?

    Perhaps he mis-pronounced it and meant "whining."


    he could still pivot

    He already has several times, but it's a 360° pivot every time.


    I like to call it the Trump Pirouette. It's no sidestep, but he does what he can.
    posted by filthy light thief at 8:21 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    He already has several times, but it's a 360° pivot every time.

    Which makes it a corkscrew. As in, "the campaign corkscrewed towards the earth".
    posted by nubs at 8:21 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Let's get back to the issues. Apparently, Donald has a five point plan to defeat Islam.

    No misquotes. Just straight up "defeat Islam" and then onto the next point.
    posted by Talez at 8:22 AM on October 19, 2016 [21 favorites]


    I would not have thought it was necessary to point this out, but every other race that's not the presidency is not a national race.

    Senate and house seats are races for federal government. It's federal politics. Come on.


    You keep talking about gerrymandering as if it relates to state-wide office and I'm the one who needs to come on?
    posted by phearlez at 8:22 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    These threads and Keepin' It 1600 have been, in general, really the only things helping me to preserve the shreds of my sanity and will to live. But the 10/17 KI1600 sums up every single thing I ever wanted to say on the subject of Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio. If you need a moment of spleen-venting catharsis, I encourage you to listen.
    posted by FelliniBlank at 8:23 AM on October 19, 2016 [11 favorites]


    When pressed about the possibility of creating a constitutional crisis, he was last heard telling his inner cabal "Fear will keep the local systems in line." [fake]

    If Trump were a Star Wars character, I don't think he'd be the gaunt brit concerned with order. Pretty sure he'd be the corpulent slug that lives in a palace and keeps a woman chained to him.
    posted by condour75 at 8:24 AM on October 19, 2016 [32 favorites]


    Not a chance. The GOP is competitive in every other race that's not the presidency. Even Susan Collins operates in lockstep with the party despite being a pro-choice liberal R sent from New England. The Senate is gerrymandered for hard R control past 2018 and the House is long gone without major swings and a bound to be ridiculously difficult 2020 election effort. Gubernationals also happen in mid-terms in 36 states also making sure liberals won't control them for the foreseeable future.

    This is true. It's also worth thinking about what's coming down the pipeline if Hillary wins the Senate and if she wins the House.

    If she wins the Senate then Obama withdraws the Garland nomination almost certainly. And Clinton forces through a young female liberal supreme court justice. Shapiro v McManus hits the Supreme Court and there are five liberal Supreme Court justices while Kennedy seems sympathetic. Shapiro v McManus identifies gerrymandering as a First Amendment issue and sets a standard of harm for gerrymandering.

    If she wins the House? The one of the first things on Clinton's agenda is Automatic Voter Registration complete with automatic restoration of voting rights for felons after release (she might well push it via executive order anyway).

    Automatic voter registration and a constitutional ban on gerrymandering that's written to cut out almost all their current tactics? This is close to Case Nightmare Green for the GOP and it's what happens when you give a very experienced wonk the levers of power.
    posted by Francis at 8:25 AM on October 19, 2016 [79 favorites]


    Let's get back to the issues. Apparently, Donald has a five point plan to defeat Islam.

    Pope Urban II is going to be fired up.
    posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:26 AM on October 19, 2016 [32 favorites]


    But the 10/17 KI1600 sums up every single thing I ever wanted to say on the subject of Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio. If you need a moment of spleen-venting catharsis, I encourage you to listen.

    Listening to Lovett eviscerate those two like the oozing pseudopods they are gives me life on a weekly basis. His rage is like balm to my soul.
    posted by soren_lorensen at 8:28 AM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    You can't gerrymander the Senate. There are no districts. Senators are elected by the entire state.
    posted by rikschell at 8:29 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Kentucky is a reliably red state, but Trump's lead here is slipping.

    He's currently up by only 3.5 points, after leading by 11 a month ago.
    posted by chaoticgood at 8:29 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    You can't gerrymander the Senate. There are no districts. Senators are elected by the entire state.

    The layout of state lines means the senate seats are way out of whack with the popular vote.
    posted by Talez at 8:30 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Alex Pareene: The Election Is Done, By The Way
    Let me play annoying pundit for a minute: I think there was a point, the Friday when the “pussy” tape came out, when there was a chance for an actual, all-out bloodbath, with a final result something like Trump 35, Hillary 55, which is why elected Republicans started jumping ship en masse. As you’ll note, that stopped by Sunday, partly thanks to Trump’s generally overlooked debate discipline—which amounts mainly to a superhuman ability to deflect gotcha questions and consistently return to a few topics he’s comfortable bullshitting about—but mostly because the debate’s format (and moderators) allowed him to move past the tape after the first 30 minutes, and the ingrained habits of the political press led them to treat the debate as a new chapter in the election instead of a direct continuation of the complete collapse of the Trump campaign. Once the pussy tape became a debate question, one addressed and then moved on from, the press treated it like a gaffe, albeit a particularly bad one, and not a sui generis event, an inescapable and uncontestable reveal of the monster behind the clown.

    The Clinton campaign did itself no favors, admittedly. Perhaps her reluctance to go for the jugular in debate two was carefully focus group-tested, but it was still a lost opportunity, leaving that event without explicitly hammering home how uniquely disqualifying and horrific Trump’s behavior and worldview are.

    ...

    All of this is to say that there will be no kill shot—Hillary Clinton doesn’t do those, not in live debates—and the conservative machine, aided by a political press that only knows one way to cover an election, will stanch the bleeding. The presidential election is done, beyond a bit of trivia about which states might flip. If you want something to worry about every day, pay attention to Senate races instead, or simply contemplate the fact that nothing Donald Trump has said or done has been considered disqualifying by a portion of the American electorate large enough to elect safe majorities in most state legislatures and the House of Representatives.
    posted by DynamiteToast at 8:31 AM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Automatic voter registration and a constitutional ban on gerrymandering that's written to cut out almost all their current tactics? This is close to Case Nightmare Green for the GOP and it's what happens when you give a very experienced wonk the levers of power.

    Your comment:me::ice cream sundae:Counselor Troi
    posted by duffell at 8:31 AM on October 19, 2016 [18 favorites]


    not so fast with all the landslide talk, people

    he could still pivot


    It will never happen, because Trump, but I do wonder what the reaction of the electorate would be if Trump came out tonight, was calm and dignified, and talked straight policy the entire night. No looming over Hillary, no threats, no boasting, just 90 minutes of talking about ideas the way a sane human being would talk about ideas. It would catch Hillary utterly by surprise. I'm sure she'd compose herself, but it would guarantee that the media narrative was his pivot and how he won the debate (by not acting like a toddler who hasn't had his nap). It would give diehard GOP voters plausible deniability about who they're voting for, and might be enough to move the needle in places with really low turnout.

    The only question is, would it also lose him his entire base of unhinged white guys who think the election should be a bloodsport?
    posted by Mayor West at 8:34 AM on October 19, 2016


    WaPo: Guns at polling places worry Virginia election officials

    Most are at schools, where guns are prohibited, but about a quarter are at churches, firehouses and community centers.
    posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:34 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    If Trump were a Star Wars character, I don't think he'd be the gaunt brit concerned with order. Pretty sure he'd be the corpulent slug that lives in a palace and keeps a woman chained to him.

    Yes, but also. 3am tweet.
    posted by phunniemee at 8:35 AM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    You can't gerrymander the Senate. There are no districts. Senators are elected by the entire state.

    Oh, sure, you're going to try to tell me that West Virginia is shaped like that PURELY BY HAPPENSTANCE? They're playing the long game; Virginia got gerrymandered before Elbridge Gerry was even governing.
    posted by Mayor West at 8:36 AM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    If she wins the Senate then Obama withdraws the Garland nomination almost certainly.

    Nope. He's not going to do that for his own ego/legacy purposes, he's not going to do that because it's shitty to Garland, he's not going to do that because as it stands the Senate rules still allow the filibuster of judicial nominees. So to tamp down the first two reasons just to provide the obstructionists with a clear example to use for fundraising and motivating their base AND accomplish nothing? No.

    and if she wins the House

    And if she doesn't then Ryan is still stuck with a group he can't really control because a subgroup of around 30 of them won't agree to anything resembling compromise. You combine this visual with the fact that the GOP is heading towards - if they're not there already - an inability to garner enough votes to ever get one of their candidates into the presidency and that's why you have an increasingly non-national party. They may BE all over the nation but they can't capture one branch and they are increasingly unable to accomplish anything in half of another.

    You can't gerrymander the Senate. There are no districts. Senators are elected by the entire state.

    The layout of state lines means the senate seats are way out of whack with the popular vote.


    Hey Trump, words have meanings and since state lines don't get altered with every new census there's absolutely no relationship between them and the word gerrymandering. You are free to dispute the value of the very deliberate design of the Senate, but you are in word salad territory here with this use of that word where its meaning is only vaguely related to your point.
    posted by phearlez at 8:37 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    But gerrymandering is drawing districts that fit the political result you want. State boundaries were not drawn with that in mind, and you cannot redraw them anyway. You can come up with another word to describe Republican advantages in the Senate (in fact, giving more power to less populous states is the one defining feature of that chamber Constitutionally), but the word "gerrymander" means something different.
    posted by rikschell at 8:37 AM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    The Senate is gerrymandered for hard R control past 2018

    The Senate can't be gerrymandered.
    posted by tclark at 8:38 AM on October 19, 2016


    Oh, sure, you're going to try to tell me that West Virginia is shaped like that PURELY BY HAPPENSTANCE? They're playing the long game; Virginia got gerrymandered before Elbridge Gerry was even governing.

    Elbridge Gerry was governing about 50 years before there was a West Virginia, so that's [fake].
    posted by davros42 at 8:40 AM on October 19, 2016


    If D's take the Senate, I really hope Schumer has the guts for the "nuclear option" to revoke the filibuster. I know Dems would like to preserve it for when they're in the minority, but it's always going to help the R's more (or whatever party appeals more to low-population states).
    posted by rikschell at 8:42 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    The Senate gives the 500,000 voters in deep red Wyoming substantially more voting power than voters in California.
    posted by humanfont at 8:42 AM on October 19, 2016 [11 favorites]


    Mod note: Hey, I know things can get a little heated in here sometimes but let's try to avoid stooping as low as referring to one another as "Trump".
    posted by cortex (staff) at 8:45 AM on October 19, 2016 [76 favorites]


    > he could still pivot

    Pretty sure I read it here, but falling away from the Fox News and GOP establishment, and into conspiracy theory land was the pivot. Up until then, Trump was merely deplorable and not "guy at the subway station shouting at transit worker for being one of them and stealing the election" level of crazy.
    posted by fragmede at 8:47 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    True, but that's just a feature of the Constitutional compromise of our legislature. When progressives call for a Constitutional rewrite, I worry. We could end up with something far worse, especially considering who would mostly be writing the new constitution (have you SEEN who states elect to stuff???).
    posted by rikschell at 8:47 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    My level of functioning has been so degraded that I've spent the last five minutes whispering to my self, the Republicans are getting their comeuppance... their cometrumppence...
    posted by prefpara at 8:47 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    The Senate also gives Rhode Island the same number of votes as Texas.

    And while the state borders are products of the politics of their time, the Missouri Compromise line no longer has partisan significance.
    posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:49 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I went undercover into the trump campaign… and couldn’t believe what I found
    The following day, I said my goodbyes to the staff, but not before peeking inside an empty phone bank to see those calls for support were still going unanswered. And it was clear to me now… these people cared more about the reality show Trump had created, then the reality of the campaign itself.
    posted by and they trembled before her fury at 8:50 AM on October 19, 2016 [43 favorites]


    the Republicans have enjoyed remarkable success in winning governorships and state legislative chambers in recent years.

    I keep trying to hammer this point home but nobody I know seems to care. I think all but one of the "swing states" state legislative branches are controlled by Republicans, in most of these they have a 2/3rds majority.

    All the really awful horrendous shit we've seen from republicans are coming from these political bodies. They have an awful amount of power and no one pays attention them.
    posted by mayonnaises at 8:51 AM on October 19, 2016 [22 favorites]


    I think that gerryblog has the better term for the Senate bias: The more correct term is "malapportioned."
    posted by Surely This at 8:51 AM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Any halfway-decent right-wing demagogue, armed with four years of Republican resentment of Clinton, should be able to pick up the pieces pretty easily.

    Yeah, but that candidate would have to get through the primary process.

    (Personally, I'm still hopeful that the GOP's small-government and white-nationalist wings will completely fracture after Trump gets his ass kicked, but that's unknowable until the election's over.)
    posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:52 AM on October 19, 2016


    The only question is, would it also lose him his entire base of unhinged white guys who think the election should be a bloodsport?

    Of course it wouldn't, which underlines the pure lunacy of Trump's campaign. He has the unhinged white guys entirely on his side. He had a press desperate to normalize him. He had a GOP determined to support him. If he had just stayed relatively normal and repeated a few safe-sounding-but-really-ominous talking points, he'd be in this race. But instead he keeps applying his blow torch to the nickel ball of extremism when it's already white-hot, just for the sociopathic pleasure of doing so. It has no electoral value.

    Then he hands the white-hot nickel ball back to the GOP and walks away.
    posted by argybarg at 8:52 AM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    I don't think there's a 400+ victory scenario that doesn't involve a Blue Texas. He's saying Texas looks blue right now.

    There's no 400 EV scenario that doesn't involve a blue Texas. I'm pretty skeptical of that happening and only a little more sanguine about Arizona, but if it does, boy! Freepers—presently looking forward to a Trumpian landslide of Reagan proportions—will shit their pants so much they'll get tired of shitting their pants.

    Speaking of which, Watch a baby pee on a United States senator, because 2016.
    posted by octobersurprise at 8:53 AM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    The Senate also gives Rhode Island the same number of votes as Texas.

    55-45 Politics in a 50-50 Country
    The U.S. Senate was designed to over-represent small states, but only recently has that bias been a Republican advantage. During the mid-20th century, the GOP regularly elected senators from large states such as California, Illinois, and New York. But during the past half-century, as a result of the GOP’s dominance of small states and loss of big states, the party has consistently held a higher share of Senate seats than the share of American citizens who vote for its candidates.
    Growing Urban-Rural Split Provides Republicans With Down-Ballot Advantages
    For example, as I document in my latest book, The Stronghold, for the better part of a half-century Republicans have enjoyed inflated representation in the Senate by virtue of their greater strength in the small states. This was not always the case: In the mid-1950s, when Republicans regularly held Senate seats in California and New York, the Democrats enjoyed inflated Senate representation. Because state boundaries are fixed, however, barring the creation of new states via admission of new states or splitting of existing states into two, electoral advantages arise only if certain types of voters migrate or grow at disparate rates that favor one party.
    Republican Bias of the Senate
    The last two figures show the advantage in seats and in population that each party had in the Senate for each session since 1980. Although the Senate majority has been held in almost equal amounts of time by both parties in the past 30 years, the population voting for Democratic Senators has outnumbered the population which voted for Republican Senators in all but two sessions of Congress.
    posted by tonycpsu at 8:54 AM on October 19, 2016 [16 favorites]


    In short, nothing good will ever happen in this country until we abolish the Senate.

    That's impossible! How will the President maintain control without the bureaucracy?
    posted by entropicamericana at 8:54 AM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    The Senate gives the 500,000 voters in deep red Wyoming substantially more voting power than voters in California.

    As originally intended by the framers of the constitution. Where it's whacked out of proportion to what the framers may have wanted is that Wyoming's single house representative has a constituency of the entire state of Wyoming (580,000 people or so), while each of California's representatives has a constituency of something like 725,000 people.
    posted by LionIndex at 8:54 AM on October 19, 2016 [13 favorites]


    The layout of state lines means the senate seats are way out of whack with the popular vote.

    Isn't that, like, the whole point of the Senate though? I'm pretty sure I was taught way back in High School Social Studies that the configuration of the bicameral legislature was a compromise that the Founding Fathers created. All the populous states wanted legislators in proportion to their populations, whereas the less populous ones argued that each state should have equal representation. The compromise was that there would be two chambers, one with proportional representation and one with equal representation.

    It's never been obvious to me that this was a bad idea. Especially when America was just getting going so to speak, a lot of folks looked at it more as an alliance of semi-autonomous states than as a single nation, and if the whole legislature was set up like the House then some of those states would have been effectively unrepresented; the more rural states would have lacked a voice in the legislature. On the other hand, if everything were like the Senate then people living in the more populous states would have lacked representation.

    It kind of comes down to whether you view the federal government as representing the states, representing the citizenry, or some combination of both. What we have now is an attempt to thread that needle and give both ideologies some weight in the legislature.
    posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:55 AM on October 19, 2016 [19 favorites]


    He already has several times, but it's a 360° pivot every time.

    File footage


    That's a bit more upright than what I'd attribute to Trump.

    This is more like it.
    posted by ursus_comiter at 8:55 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    DMV have on record that I'm not a US citizen?

    The DMV in the states are also regulated by Homeland Security, because ID issuing agencies may not abet individuals illegally in the US, falsely establish US citizenship. So, to get a driver's license now you have to either had a previous license in the state, or if a new license, show a birth certificate, and utility bills to establish where you live. States want citizens fully ID'd before issuing licenses, because they are a universally accepted identification used in education, banking, auto registration, etc. But The voting places put you where you say you live, once you establish your residence with a county clerk. I checked this out yesterday, because my address on my drivers license is not the same as where I vote.
    posted by Oyéah at 8:57 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    A Place for Everyone

    Clinton's closing arguments ad. Pretty damn good.
    posted by Talez at 8:59 AM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Isn't that, like, the whole point of the Senate though? I'm pretty sure I was taught way back in High School Social Studies that the configuration of the bicameral legislature was a compromise that the Founding Fathers created. All the populous states wanted legislators in proportion to their populations, whereas the less populous ones argued that each state should have equal representation. The compromise was that there would be two chambers, one with proportional representation and one with equal representation.

    Yes, that is the point of the senate and I agree that it isn't necessarily a bad thing.
    posted by gusottertrout at 9:00 AM on October 19, 2016


    The more correct term is "malapportioned."

    The term I learned was "the Connecticut Compromise."
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:01 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    The Senate would be workable and competitive if there was more than one seat up from a state at a time. It really needs to be expanded and run as an MMP type deal.
    posted by Talez at 9:05 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    > It really needs to be expanded and run as an MMP type deal.

    What is MMP?
    posted by languagehat at 9:07 AM on October 19, 2016




    MMP = Mixed Member Proportional.
    posted by Talez at 9:08 AM on October 19, 2016


    What is MMP?

    Twenty bucks, same as in I'M SORRY I'M SORRY IT'S THIS ELECTION MY BRAIN HAS MELTED

    posted by cortex at 9:08 AM on October 19, 2016 [82 favorites]


    Easy solution: statehood for Puerto Rico and DC.
    posted by spitbull at 9:08 AM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    What is MMP?

    Mixed Martial Politics
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:08 AM on October 19, 2016 [40 favorites]


    Well ok, simple solution.
    posted by spitbull at 9:08 AM on October 19, 2016


    The Senate also gives Rhode Island the same number of votes as Texas.

    Though I think if you were to chart population versus red/blue inclinations, sparsely populated red states would still have a disproportionate power in the Senate.

    I mean, that's baked into the Constitution (as some compromise or other) to prevent states with big cities from riding roughshod over the humble rural folks, as you might expect in the populist House. At least that's how it was supposed to work in the 1700s. (On preview: what ChurchHatesTucker called it.)
    posted by aught at 9:09 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    what is MMP?
    Like A leppo but with different letters.
    posted by spitbull at 9:09 AM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Metafilter: should be described as "legumey" and not "nutty"
    posted by DiscountDeity at 9:10 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Twenty bucks, same as in I'M SORRY I'M SORRY IT'S THIS ELECTION MY BRAIN HAS MELTED

    You know when you complain about us shitposting and making the threads longer? Yeah... Just think about that one...
    posted by Talez at 9:10 AM on October 19, 2016 [24 favorites]


    In short, nothing good will ever happen in this country until we abolish the Senate.

    That's impossible! How will the President maintain control without the bureaucracy?


    Hi! Am I just incredibly slow, or does this comment not make any sense?
    posted by psoas at 9:11 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    You are not slow, psoas. Senators are not bureaucrats, they are politicians. That comment makes no sense.
    posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:13 AM on October 19, 2016


    Source.
    posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:13 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Twenty bucks, same as in I'M SORRY I'M SORRY IT'S THIS ELECTION MY BRAIN HAS MELTED
    posted by cortex at 12:08 PM


    yeah, i want my 20+ deleted comments back.
    posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 9:15 AM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    Did my first volunteer phone banking shift last night. Signed up for a GOTV shift too. Thanks, MeFi, for motivating me. Now I'll always be able to tell me daughters I helped make history. :-)
    posted by OnceUponATime at 9:18 AM on October 19, 2016 [14 favorites]


    > There's no 400 EV scenario that doesn't involve a blue Texas.

    Not saying it's particularly likely to happen, but if you turn all the states blue that 538 has at or below Trump +6.0 in polls-only, then un-turn Texas, you get to 408.* If you think Egg might throw Utah to Clinton, you can drop any one state in {AK, MO, SC, IN} and still be over 400, without Texas.

    Obviously doubtful that the polls could all be missing a 6-point shift away from Trump, but if there's any year in which something like that could happen, it'd be this one. Clinton's chances of winning the states in question, per 538 polls-only, at the moment:

    GA: 33.2%
    AK: 35.5%
    MO: 25.9%
    TX: 17.5%
    SC: 16.9%
    IN: 16.9%
    UT: 9.0%

    *(adds GA, AK, MO, [TX], SC, IN)
    posted by Spathe Cadet at 9:18 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    You know when you complain about us shitposting and making the threads longer?

    I have to read basically every comment of these fuckers, and people who know me well know that I am capable, and inclined, to respond to just about literally any stimulus with a questionably-constructed joke. If you do the math on the sheer number of opportunities to respond that I've declined to take over the last schlepty-thousand closely-watched comments, the occasional slip into a Kibo callback starts to look like the Herculean exercise in restraint that it has been. Sometimes I just neeeeeeed thiiiiiis.
    posted by cortex at 9:18 AM on October 19, 2016 [145 favorites]


    Source.

    Fucking George Lucas, goddammit. Ruining civic literacy for another generation.
    posted by psoas at 9:19 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    If D's take the Senate, I really hope Schumer has the guts for the "nuclear option" to revoke the filibuster. I know Dems would like to preserve it for when they're in the minority, but it's always going to help the R's more (or whatever party appeals more to low-population states).

    Most emphatically, I do not.

    The filibuster is a tool with a very specific use: to indicate that in times when Shit Is Fucked Up And Bullshit and the voting body is closely divided, and the narrow majority is refusing to even acknowledge the existence of the minority, that the minority has a way of saying yes, we will at least be heard and this is important enough that you must persuade at least some of us to continue.

    This is not to suggest that this is how the Republicans have used it; quite the opposite, as they have used it as a battering ram to block even inoffensive and useful legislation and appointments. This is not to suggest that the Democrats should or WOULD use it the way the Republicans have used it; quite the opposite, as they have demonstrated that even in times when it IS important to use it for the good of the nation, they are prone to hesitate.

    But we are never completely out of the woods. Even if the Dems retake both houses next month, there will be another time in which the Repubs are in charge again, and want to ram through Shit That Is Fucked Up And Bullshit and, at that time, having this tool in the toolbox is called for.

    Sure, the Republicans could retake the Senate and say "the filibuster is now gone" themselves. But let them take the blame for that last dynamiting of institutional comity.
    posted by delfin at 9:19 AM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Poor Cortex. Ignore those ungrateful MeFis scolding you for making a $20 SAIT comment! You deserve an occasional freebie at this point. I can't even imagine.

    In brain-melting situations like these, find it soothing to keep some kind of one-a-day calendar (quotes, pics, whatever), and at the end of your daily shift, rip off that day, then put that page in a ceramic bowl, and set the page on fire while laughing maniacally and dancing in circles around the bowl, calling upon Elder Gods or something.

    20 days to go....
    posted by chonus at 9:20 AM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    From the excellent Vox article on the "new silent majority" linked above (here it is again because I know how fast these threads move):

    Trump voters were surprised and alarmed to learn that Obama could win reelection with scant support from people like them, and have reacted with the Trumpian primal scream.

    Primal scream or primal bawwww? You decide! What I find interesting, and significant, is that the proverbial "angry white man" is no longer needed to win coalitions, and, increasingly in blue states at least, elections. Hence the bawww. It's no longer all about them, unless you want a newspaper article about how haaaaaaard it is to be an uneducated white guy in Bumfuck.

    And of course white men are welcome at the new coalition - just not angry, selfish, loudmouth ones - no Boys Will Be Boys, kthx!
    posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:21 AM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    schlepty-thousand closely-watched watched comments

    Thank you, cortex. Have some tea. Or a beer. Or a xanax.
    posted by Sophie1 at 9:21 AM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Fucking George Lucas, goddammit.

    Leave me out this, bub.
    posted by George Lucas at 9:21 AM on October 19, 2016 [54 favorites]


    There is I think more to the House/Senate divide than simple population issues. The Senate, by being a statewide office is often more moderate than House members who are elected from smaller districts. Even if a state shows as "solid" red or blue, the make up of its electorate is a mix of Democrats and Republicans to which, in some measure, most Senators have to maintain appeal. House members often need not appeal to splits between red and blue and it is often the more volatile chamber. Simply relying on the House could lead to far more extreme legislation and attempts to shift back and forth between value systems more rapidly than could possibly be healthy for the country.

    I also believe that maintaining a sense of separation between the federal government and state governments too has some value, even if that is hard to see while Republicans are in control of more states at the moment.

    That's my short answer anyway, don't have time for anything more involved.
    posted by gusottertrout at 9:21 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    It's my understanding that right now you can fillibuster by just saying "I fillibuster." Can they make it so that you have to actually stand up and talk the whole time, as it used to be? That would surely cut down on its casual use, and make it the desperate measure it was supposed to be?
    posted by OnceUponATime at 9:22 AM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    By the way I was being facetious. I think it's great that God-Emperor Cortex is human after all.
    posted by Talez at 9:22 AM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Can I make a MeTa feature request to attach an emotion to a comment like a LiveJournal post?
    posted by Talez at 9:23 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    20 days to go....

    Same as in town.
    posted by Shepherd at 9:24 AM on October 19, 2016 [15 favorites]


    Speaking of which, Watch a baby pee on a United States senator, because 2016.

    He then doesn't change out of the supposedly pee-soaked shirt, and then tosses the soiled disposable diaper into the *kitchen* trash can. >gag reflex<
    posted by aught at 9:25 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Taco trucks form "wall" outside Trump's Vegas hotel.

    My kind of protest.
    posted by spitbull at 9:25 AM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    Same as in town.

    Also can we get a flag for "that was terrible and you should feel bad"?
    posted by Talez at 9:25 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    cortex: I have to read basically every comment of these fuckers

    Wait, what? Don't you have a jo- oh, nevermind.

    [But seriously, thanks to you and the mods who slog through these threads and keep the peace!]
    posted by filthy light thief at 9:26 AM on October 19, 2016 [28 favorites]


    New iPhone is still loading the thread quickly. Election threads should be a new benchmarking tool for smartphone performance.

    In contrast, this thread is already making my work computer/Citrix box* running Classic in Firefox choke harder than Little Marco on stage with Big Donald. If I scroll too fast, I get a truly incredible line-duplication visual error that repeats a random line 8-10x.

    * DON'T JUDGE ME
    posted by joyceanmachine at 9:27 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    The filibuster may once have been a worthwhile tool in extreme circumstances, but that hasn't been the case for a long time now. It is now a way to grind the legislature to a complete halt whenever one party isn't getting its way. I'm not sure we can put that genie back in the bottle; we need checks against the tyrrany of the majority, yes, but this particular one has been so comprehensively abused that I don't think it should be allowed to exist anymore. The government must govern, even if it sometimes gets things spectacularly wrong. Otherwise, everything goes to hell.
    posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:27 AM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Talez: Also can we get a flag for "that was terrible and you should feel bad"?

    I think the often understood short hand is "dad joke." At least that's what I say when tell a cringe-worthy pun or joke. Mind you, one does not need to be a dad to tell a dad joke, at least as I see it.
    posted by filthy light thief at 9:28 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I have to read basically every comment of these fuckers

    same
    posted by defenestration at 9:28 AM on October 19, 2016 [29 favorites]


    "On Nov 8, Clinton's claims of a mandate will fly in the face of reality. She only won by not being Trump."

    This is..half true, and half untrue.

    Yes, I think that if Clinton stands up on Nov 8 and says, "This enormous sweep shows that the country as a whole endorses the Democratic platform, and I have a mandate to enact it entirely without needing to consider the other side because they clearly are miniscule", it will be unwarranted, because while she might have won, it is extremely unlikely that she would have swept like this against a regular candidate - a significant percentage of the people voting Clinton, especially in red-turning-blue states, are Republicans who just want a goddamned grownup non-fascist in the White House.

    But I think that if Clinton stands up and says, "This enormous sweep shows a mandate against racism and sexual assault apologia", then she will be 100% right. Because it does show that. It shows that in 2016, an overwhelming portion of the population says it's done with good-old-boy bigotry and predatory behavior. And that's actually great! That is legitimately a great mandate to have! We will need to have that mandate, in part to undo all the damage to our country Donald Trump just did!
    posted by corb at 9:31 AM on October 19, 2016 [42 favorites]


    In the last thread I questioned whether cortex was getting a cut of the data overage charges from mefites reloading election threads on Verizon connections.

    I take that back with apologies. Clearly the kickback deal is with the makers of replacement smartphone batteries.

    Again, I kid and doff my cap to the mods.
    posted by spitbull at 9:31 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Not really! That's how it's ended up functioning, today,

    Okay, well, we'll need to take this up with my 7th grade social studies teacher, then.
    posted by aught at 9:31 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]



    Is there any way to get data on how many words are in a thread?

    Just curious at how much I've actually been reading about this election since it's pretty much the only thing besides a Project Management textbook that I've looked at this past couple of months.
    posted by Jalliah at 9:32 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Speaking of which, Watch a baby pee on a United States senator, because 2016.

    Damn, I was really hoping it would be McConnell.
    posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 9:34 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    >Clinton's claims of a mandate will fly in the face of reality. She only won by not being Trump.

    SHE ONLY WON BECAUSE NOBODY LIKED OUR CANDIDATE

    no, wait, I mean...

    SHE ONLY WON BECAUSE EVEN PEOPLE WHO NORMALLY SUPPORT US DON'T ANYMORE

    nonono... you're twisting my words... what I meant was
    posted by Sing Or Swim at 9:35 AM on October 19, 2016 [40 favorites]



    Speaking of which, Watch a baby pee on a United States senator, because 2016.


    Oh Ron Johnson, if the world is a just place you'll be unemployed come November. So you'll have plenty of time to change diapers.
    posted by drezdn at 9:37 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Damn, I was really hoping it would be McConnell.

    [Darmok] McConnell, when the infant peed, with his mouth wide. [/Darmok]
    posted by aught at 9:37 AM on October 19, 2016 [16 favorites]


    Sometimes I just neeeeeeed thiiiiiis.

    I love you, cortex.
    posted by schadenfrau at 9:48 AM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]



    I've decided that I'm going to use tonight's debate as an excuse to eat chocolate cake. I love chocolate cake and haven't had it in a long time. I feel like watching this election and putting up with all that is Trump deserves a personal award and for me that's going to be cake.

    I would also like to state that everyone else deserves a personal award and hereby award everyone with their own rewarding personal awards, whatever they might be.
    posted by Jalliah at 9:48 AM on October 19, 2016 [25 favorites]


    They have been unable to get a GOP president in 2016 because the candidate is an undisciplined lunatic who can't focus for more than 20 seconds on any policies beyond Bombing The Shit Out Of Them and Grab Them By The Pussy. Any halfway-decent right-wing demagogue, armed with four years of Republican resentment of Clinton, should be able to pick up the pieces pretty easily.

    Putting aside the unknowable about what perception of HRC will be after 4 years of her actions and 4 years of GOP actions, you're still (willfully?) ignoring the reality of how the states tend to vote on R v D, which we can consider the "starting line" for any candidate. Democrats have a significant advantage in this layout and the growing demographics - and GOP outreach failure to those demographics - look to even more firmly cement this.

    That doesn't make it flat-out impossible, but when you combine it with the primary pressures that Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish cites it means the current scheme of the GOP is perfectly machined to produce candidates who can't capture that needed middle ground.

    Look at historical data from 270towin, for example. With a popular vote comparison of 65.446M to 60.589M Obama captures 332 EV to Romney's 206. But in 2004 Bush takes 286 EV to Kerry's 251 with a popular vote of 62.039M to 59.027M.

    Put another way, Kerry pulled 95.1% as many votes as his competitor and got 87.7% of the EVs, where Romney pulled 92.6% and got 62% of the EVs.

    1996: Electoral 379 & Popular 45,590,703 vs Electoral 159 & Popular 37,816,307
    1992: Electoral 370 & Popular 44,908,254 vs Electoral 168 & Popular 39,102,343
    1988: Electoral 426 & Popular 47,946,000 vs Electoral 111 & Popular 41,016,000

    Get before that point and it's hard to judge anything, given the disarray of the dems at the time and the different EV and demographic layout. Though it certainly does illustrate that yes, a party still can be so monkey-fucking-a-football messed up that they can cede any chance of winning, and sure, the Democratic party could pull that off. But between the two parties who looks closer to that mess?

    The election in 2000 shows that there's configurations where a near even split with a spread smaller than the daytime population of DC's 69 square miles can still deliver the race to the GOP. But that pivoted on Florida with under 1000 votes and it would have meant 292 vs 246.

    So sure, you can run a marginally more competent demagogue. But they still have to carry the Florida types which sit close to the pivot point if they expect to win. And that means they need to not only keep the base showing up in those states but they need to capture those people in the middle. And that middle is looking more and more like a quantity you can swamp just with new registrations in demographic communities that the GOP can't seem to manage to stop alienating. Even when their own reports show them it's critical.

    If that's tl;dr (and even I wouldn't blame you) all you need to do is go find the maps of the states that start out, in a 'generic R vs generic D' contest and you see the numbers initially favor the dems. Getting a twenty-stroke handicap doesn't mean a bad performance and strong competitor can't tip the race the other way, but I know what the smart bet is.
    posted by phearlez at 9:50 AM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    I would also like to state that everyone else deserves a personal award and hereby award everyone with their own rewarding personal awards, whatever they might be.

    Dibs on Jalliah's chocolate cake.
    posted by zombieflanders at 9:50 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    We're having debate margaritas at my house! Tomorrow might suck but I am going to feel GOOD tonight.
    posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:50 AM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    With regard to the polls and the idea that private polling might be more accurate than public polling because they use statistical modeling rather than surveys to determine who is a likely voter, isn't it pretty plausible that the statistical models right now are way off as well? How do you model, in an election as crazy as this one, how likely someone is to vote? I've been seeing a lot of unscientific but highly suggestive evidence out there showing that we may see unprecedented mobilization of women and latinx voters in this election, that the Clintons' GOTV operation is the best one ever run while Trump's is effectively nonexistent, and that the combination of serious scandal on the Republican side and a strong pro-Clinton polling lead and media narrative might discourage Republican voters from bothering to turn up on election day.

    All of these things seem pretty unprecedented, and unprecedented events are by definition almost impossible to model statistically. Typically, when faced with the possibility of unprecedented circumstances fucking up your statistical model, you just kind of shrug and say, "Well, this is the best we can do; take it or leave it." Without hard data, any attempt to compensate for factors that are plausible but unprecedented relies on hunches and guesswork, which are generally to be avoided or at very least not trusted. My assumption would be that competent private pollsters are running conservative models that don't assume things like unprecedented turnout of latinx voters.

    if so—and I realize that I'm getting pretty far out on a limb here especially given that we don't even have access to these private polls—this would mean that private pollsters might also be underestimating Clinton's margin of victory on election day. There are a number of factors in play which might push things more toward Hillary this year, and they're all difficult to account for and hence easy to underestimate. Given that we have good reason to believe that the private polls on both the Republican and Democratic sides are showing a stronger position for Clinton than the public polls are, I find all of this very exciting and I'll definitely be tuning in on election day to see how big a landslide Clinton manages to pull off.
    posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:54 AM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Oh, sure, you're going to try to tell me that West Virginia is shaped like that PURELY BY HAPPENSTANCE? They're playing the long game; Virginia got gerrymandered before Elbridge Gerry was even governing.

    If you are going to make that argument then you have to also include the addition of Chicago to Illinois which was pure Civil War strategic gerrymandering.
    posted by srboisvert at 9:56 AM on October 19, 2016


    I went undercover into the trump campaign… and couldn’t believe what I found

    posted by and they trembled before her fury at 11:50 AM

    I enjoyed this even though it was very light on the details. I kept waiting to see how he got around the Photo ID and signed NDA requirements but he never addressed it. Possibly some places were so starved for volunteers they didn't care? Or perhaps the GOP-run offices had different requirements from the Trump-run offices.

    If you enjoyed the silly baby-pee ad, you might check out this one for Gerald Daugherty running for Travis County Commissioner
    posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:57 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    In honor of the taco wall, am determined to have tacos tonight.
    posted by ZeusHumms at 9:58 AM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Augh! The debate is tonight! Crapdamnhell how did I forget that?!

    Okay. Okay. Don't panic. Okay we have popcorn . . Cancel dinner . . Lucky rocketship underwear . . Okay . . clear the ottoman . . Classic theme set . . Lights . . Okay. Okay.

    *snnfffffffffff*. Okay. It's one and goal. Best RB in the country . . Get her the ball and /practices_handoff . . . Okay. Hut. Hut. Hut. /handoff. Okay. Got it.

    Who's got the Rocky tape?
    posted by petebest at 9:58 AM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    Is there any way to get data on how many words are in a thread?

    All the comments, minus the "posted by" credits lines and newlines, is 8,923 lines at the end of this comment. 257,659 words.

    I had to paste it into my text editor and regex out the bylines; I am unaware of an easy way to do it.
    posted by phearlez at 9:59 AM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Wouldn't it be great if Donald Trump's tantrums ended with him holding his breath until Texas turned blue?
    posted by chonus at 10:01 AM on October 19, 2016 [49 favorites]


    The filibuster may once have been a worthwhile tool in extreme circumstances, but that hasn't been the case for a long time now. It is now a way to grind the legislature to a complete halt whenever one party isn't getting its way. I'm not sure we can put that genie back in the bottle; we need checks against the tyranny of the majority, yes, but this particular one has been so comprehensively abused that I don't think it should be allowed to exist anymore. The government must govern, even if it sometimes gets things spectacularly wrong. Otherwise, everything goes to hell.

    And I was with you all the way up until that last declaration. I prefer to think like Hippocrates about Congress; first, do no harm. If spectacular legislative wrongness can be avoided, it must be, and make no mistake, today's Republicans are _extremely capable_ of spectacular wrongness.

    Something needs to be done about the tool's rampant misuse, but killing the filibuster entirely is like removing fire hydrants because kids are using them as sprinklers in the summer. When the real fires break out, it's too late to say "can we do something about reinstalling them here...?"
    posted by delfin at 10:01 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Mind you, one does not need to be a dad to tell a dad joke, at least as I see it.

    See Also: Disney Jungle Cruise.
    posted by mikelieman at 10:02 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    So we are off to the NC state fair this afternoon but I started a batch of chili in the slow cooker to be consumed with beer when we come home to watch the debate. Might do some tequila shooters depending on our mood. I won't be commenting on MetaFilter because I will be giving all my quips and eyerolls to Mr. Gravy but I will definitely look forward to reading all yours tomorrow.
    posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:03 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    > In honor of the taco wall, am determined to have tacos tonight.

    Me too. Gonna go to my favorite bar and have brisket tacos and, if they have the debate on, groan along with a sympathetic crowd. And if they don't have the debate on, I still get tacos!
    posted by rtha at 10:04 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    All the comments, minus the "posted by" credits lines and newlines, is 8,923 lines at the end of this comment. 257,659 words.

    I had to paste it into my text editor and regex out the bylines; I am unaware of an easy way to do it.


    Thank you for doing all that! lol
    Not sure why I didn't think about doing that since I word count in my word processor all the damn time. Kinda one of those 'well duh of course' things.
    posted by Jalliah at 10:04 AM on October 19, 2016


    Something needs to be done about the tool's rampant misuse, but killing the filibuster entirely is like removing fire hydrants because kids are using them as sprinklers in the summer.

    Shutting down the entire government multiple times is not equivalent to "kids playing in fire hydrants." There is major damage being done.
    posted by showbiz_liz at 10:05 AM on October 19, 2016 [10 favorites]


    For comparison, the longest Harry Potter book, Order of the Phoenix, comes in at 257,154 words.
    posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:05 AM on October 19, 2016 [18 favorites]


    Let's get back to the issues. Apparently, Donald has a five point plan to defeat Islam.

    No misquotes. Just straight up "defeat Islam" and then onto the next point.
    posted by Talez at 11:22 AM on October 19 [8 favorites +] [!]

    Conversely, Islam (in as much as it is a sentient force so not really) has a five pillars plan to worship God in the way it deems appropriate. I wouldn't have said that needs defeating per se but I'm not as big an asshole as Donald Trump so here we all are I guess. What a depressing situation this whole thing is.
    posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:05 AM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    So I got bored and I figured we wouldn't be doing much until the debate.

    So I appropriated this and turned it into a meme.
    posted by Talez at 10:08 AM on October 19, 2016 [11 favorites]


    I simply cannot tolerate looking at or hearing Trump, so my debate plan is to "watch" through you guys. Don't forget the [real] and [fake] tags, for I will believe absolutely ANYTHING you guys post happening that isn't actually against the laws of physics.
    posted by thebrokedown at 10:10 AM on October 19, 2016 [28 favorites]


    oh god I can't even look at Pepe anymore without getting irrationally angry.
    posted by corb at 10:10 AM on October 19, 2016 [14 favorites]


    Let's get back to the issues. Apparently, Donald has a five point plan to defeat Islam.

    No misquotes. Just straight up "defeat Islam" and then onto the next point.


    So, um, is this because he refuses to say the words "radical islamic terrorism"?
    posted by Artw at 10:10 AM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    Shutting down the entire government multiple times is not equivalent to "kids playing in fire hydrants." There is major damage being done.

    Oh come on. delfin was clearly not asserting an equivalency. It was a simile.
    posted by Etrigan at 10:11 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Confessions of a Trump Fact-Checker
    I spent 33 days fact-checking 253 Donald Trump falsehoods. Here’s what I’ve learned.
    posted by kirkaracha at 10:11 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Putting aside the unknowable about what perception of HRC will be after 4 years of her actions and 4 years of GOP actions,

    More like...2.5 years of her actions and 2.5 years of GOP inactions, given how early the election cycle starts.

    God, it makes me sick to my stomach just to write that.
    posted by Preserver at 10:11 AM on October 19, 2016


    I am happy to see Pepe reclaimed from the appropriators, especially in light of the recent statements and new work from his creator. A good meme
    posted by prize bull octorok at 10:12 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Is there a new rift developing in the Trump campaign? Trump and Ailes are no longer speaking, according to Vanity Fair.
    posted by feloniousmonk at 10:12 AM on October 19, 2016 [17 favorites]


    Oh come on. delfin was clearly not asserting an equivalency. It was a simile.

    Not even being sarcastic - what is the purpose of a simile if not to assert an equivalency? Isn't that the entire point of a simile as a rhetorical device?
    posted by showbiz_liz at 10:13 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    >Apparently, Donald has a five point plan to defeat Islam.

    I don't know about the first three, but I'm pretty sure the fourth point is just question marks, and the fifth one is "PROFIT!"
    posted by Sing Or Swim at 10:13 AM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    Clicked on Talez's meme link, saw Pepe, hit ctrl+W so fast you'd have thought I'd touched something hot.
    posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:13 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    I am somewhat frustrated by the plotting of "Harry Potter and the Disrespect of Our Ambitions and Intellect", but it does have some great characters.
    posted by kyrademon at 10:13 AM on October 19, 2016 [29 favorites]


    It's one and goal. Best RB in the country

    posted by petebest


    There are some Seahawks fans in here who are having involuntary eye twitches right now.
    posted by cashman at 10:13 AM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]




    I am happy to see Pepe reclaimed from the appropriators, especially in light of the recent statements and new work from his creator. A good meme

    Ahem. I belive that custom dictates that this picture [tw: pepe] be posted or at least linked to.
    posted by Talez at 10:14 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    (About three weeks ago, I would have looked at that image and thought to myself, "What is the deal with that anthropomorphic frog?" and then just wandered off in confusion.)
    posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:14 AM on October 19, 2016


    Just made a PDF of the thread. 1,018 pages, 22 MB.
    posted by kirkaracha at 10:14 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Tonight's debate overlaps perfectly with a three hour rehearsal for me, the first one for our Christmas concert. It features a dozen contemporary classical pieces, most of which are fiendishly difficult, none of which I have ever seen before. This means that not only will I not be able to watch the debate, I won't even be able to think about it, because I'll be too busy trying to sight-read my way through this.

    THANK THE OLD GODS AND THE NEW.
    posted by KathrynT at 10:15 AM on October 19, 2016 [10 favorites]


    PDFGATE II: ELECTRIC BOOGALOO
    posted by cashman at 10:16 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    No misquotes. Just straight up "defeat Islam"

    No, yeah that is straight up Crusader bullshit. Actually, it's worse -- the Crusaders's main objective was just to take back the Holy Land, not destroy an entire religion (although they probably wouldn't have minded that).

    This right here just that and not even anything else she's said disqualifies Kellyanne Conway from going within fifty miles of a political campaign in a democratic nation.

    It is an open call for religious genocide and the party whose duly elected leader's campaign manager just said it needs to be over.
    posted by tivalasvegas at 10:16 AM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    "Defeat Islam"

    Is this really "Kill them all and let God sort them out" territory?
    posted by Midnight Skulker at 10:18 AM on October 19, 2016


    I try to expose you all to dank memes (especially since the creator wants us to take Pepe back) and you just recoil in terror. FeelsBadMan
    posted by Talez at 10:20 AM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    New iPhone is still loading the thread quickly. Election threads should be a new benchmarking tool for smartphone performance.

    My Nexus 5X with Nougat is sailing pretty smoothly through the thread.
    posted by numaner at 10:21 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Donald Trump, Wedding Crasher
    It wasn't like I was watching a presidential candidate; it felt more like Guy Fieri walking through a dining room asking how everyone likes the Donkey Sauce.
    posted by kirkaracha at 10:22 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    showbiz_liz, I concur that the Republicans in Congress are well beyond mischief and into measurable and substantial harm.

    But I am old, and wary. We are ten years removed from the last Republican President and Republican Congress combination, and I am not about to believe that that won't happen again in my lifetime. And that combination without a working filibuster makes my pancreas try to climb out the nearest orifice and run for the hills.
    posted by delfin at 10:23 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    my Samsung Galaxy Note 7 is handling the thread pretty----

    OH GOD MY HANDS ARE ON FIRE SOMEONE CALL 911
    posted by entropicamericana at 10:23 AM on October 19, 2016 [52 favorites]


    Not even being sarcastic - what is the purpose of a simile if not to assert an equivalency?

    Comparison is not equivalency. There is no reasonable interpretation of delfin's comment as "Kids opening fire hydrants is of equivalent moral weight to the filibuster."
    posted by Etrigan at 10:23 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    My friend's uncle works at Nintendo and he said that Shigeru Miyamoto would run for president if he was an American citizen and he spoke English.

    Where do I register to join the Mario Party?
    posted by Servo5678 at 10:25 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    OH GOD MY HANDS ARE ON FIRE SOMEONE CALL 911

    How did you tap post if your hands are on fire?
    posted by Talez at 10:25 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    quiet, you
    posted by entropicamericana at 10:26 AM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    I'm sorry, but Pepe is a lost cause. Just like I know that swastikas mean something else in India, but the damage has been done.
    posted by monospace at 10:26 AM on October 19, 2016 [15 favorites]


    Where do I register to join the Mario Party?

    What? That party just makes you want to kill everyone and anyone who is in the Mario Party with you. Especially when that fucker gets a star for doing something that ISN'T VERY IMPRESSIVE. You managed to not drool! Here! Have a star!

    Fuckin' bullshit that party.
    posted by Talez at 10:26 AM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    Similes don't assert equivalency, they just highlight an aspect or characteristic of the subject by connecting it to something else which popularly exemplifies that characteristic. That's not even close to asserting equivalency.
    posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:27 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    How did you tap post if your hands are on fire?

    I assume he used Google Assistant!
    posted by Elementary Penguin at 10:28 AM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    The government must govern, even if it sometimes gets things spectacularly wrong. Otherwise, everything goes to hell.

    And I was with you all the way up until that last declaration. I prefer to think like Hippocrates about Congress; first, do no harm. If spectacular legislative wrongness can be avoided, it must be, and make no mistake, today's Republicans are _extremely capable_ of spectacular wrongness.


    The problem with this as metaphor, as showbiz_liz alludes to, is that you're talking about something Hippocrates meant to apply to intervention. But running a government isn't purely intervention. Effectively you're applying this advice about medicine to the entire process of being human, including eating. And eating, in this tortured metaphor, is things like funding ongoing things we cannot have a society without like, say, food quality inspection. Or even just paying the bills we've already agreed to, like with the debt ceiling.

    If the filibuster was only capable of being applied in the sense of not altering existing laws and processes it might be okay to say it's worth being able to completely freeze things as they are and not make any changes. But it's not. It's being used to prevent even the basic functioning of society.

    All of that is really kinda irrelevant. Neither party is going to simply shitcan the filibuster wholesale. The issue is that reforms for it are long overdue. There will still be something that looks like it, but hopefully less capable of wholesale abuse. Rhetoric aside it's not really that big a deal; the Senate changes its operating rules as a matter of course and has made major changes like the number of votes needed for a filibuster within the lifetime of some of us older mefites.
    posted by phearlez at 10:28 AM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    The thread loads fine on my 6S, but the little end of thread arrow shortcut thingie gets defeated at about 1,000 comments or so.

    Lots of commentators on MSNBC hoping for a policy heavy debate because Chris Wallace. I hope we get to watch Trump shit the bed on Russia and Syria.
    posted by xyzzy at 10:28 AM on October 19, 2016


    How did you tap post if your hands are on fire?

    Same way things get posted when someone mentions Candlejack by name, obvs.

    Speaking of whom, one thing I've noticed about Trum
    posted by lord_wolf at 10:28 AM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Comparison is not equivalency. There is no reasonable interpretation of delfin's comment as "Kids opening fire hydrants is of equivalent moral weight to the filibuster."

    I cannot see any way of reading it that doesn't totally dismiss the seriousness of the current abuse of the filibuster by comparing it to "kids just goofin' around."
    posted by showbiz_liz at 10:30 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]




    electoral-vote.com updated.

    Hillary's electoral vote estimation went from 352 to 339.

    Trending Republican:

    Ohio went from barely Dem to exactly tied.
    Iowa went from barely GOP to likely GOP.
    Oregon went from strongly Dem to likely Dem.
    Florida went from strongly Dem to likely Dem.
    Arizona went from barely Dem to barely GOP.

    Trending Democratic

    Georgia went from likely GOP, past 'barely GOP' and 'tied', to barely Dem.
    New Hampshire went from barely Dem to likely Dem.
    New Jersey went from barely Dem to likely Dem.
    posted by cashman at 10:31 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    one can only imagine they had a falling out after a bitter philosophical dispute over subtle nuances of groping theory
    posted by prize bull octorok at 10:32 AM on October 19, 2016 [18 favorites]


    Donald Trump and Roger Ailes are no longer speaking

    I wish this meant what I originally thought it meant.
    posted by tonycpsu at 10:32 AM on October 19, 2016 [56 favorites]


    Odd couple comedy?
    posted by Artw at 10:33 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    It continues... Former TV reporter accuses Bill Clinton of sexual assault (Politico link):
    Leslie Millwee, a former reporter for local Arkansas TV station KLMN-TV, has accused former president Bill Clinton of sexually assaulting her three times in 1980, while Clinton was the governor of Arkansas, Breitbart News reports.

    Millwee told Breitbart that she interviewed Clinton about 20 times publicly and met with him in KLMN-TV’s editing room, which is where she said he allegedly groped her and rubbed his genitals on her.

    She also said he once gave her half of his tie and wrote his name on her reporter's notebook, and that he once tried to visit her apartment but left after she did not let him enter.
    Rumors that Bill Clinton is not the Democratic nominee for President could not be confirmed at press time.
    posted by zachlipton at 10:34 AM on October 19, 2016 [23 favorites]


    It would be incredibly poetic if he did lose his voice right before the debate tonight, though.
    posted by tivalasvegas at 10:34 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Am I just old, or has Pepe always looked kinda gross? He looks like the kind of frog that might be a miscreant?
    posted by thebrokedown at 10:34 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Spontaneous muteness.
    posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:34 AM on October 19, 2016


    Schmidt told MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” on Wednesday morning that Clinton was currently “trending over 400” electoral votes, based on recent polling, and he said Republicans are freaking out over the real possibility of losing their majorities in both houses of Congress.

    This only applies to Congress, not EVs, but remember that gerrymandering can backfire horribly in a wave election. The whoie point is to group your opponents in a few heavily Dem districts, and spread Republicans out in a larger number of small majority districts.

    If the tide is big enough, lots of those small majority districts become suddenly vulnerable, and a lot of them don't have the highest quality candidates since they were "safe."
    posted by msalt at 10:34 AM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    What the shit, e-v? I don't care if it's after 11a, I want my McMuffin.
    posted by phearlez at 10:34 AM on October 19, 2016


    Sneaking away at the office to bring you a Marla Maples tidbit: somebodyyy had lunch with Katie Couric! (link to Instagram) to talk "nutrition, motherhood, love, state of mind and state of the world" and she "can't wait to share more!"
    posted by sallybrown at 10:35 AM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Trump and Ailes are no longer speaking, according to Vanity Fair.

    I see from that piece that Gabriel Sherman, who broke the Ailes story, has a TV deal now:
    The drama was juicy enough to garner a T.V. deal for Sherman, who announced on stage that he will be working on a limited series based on the Ailes saga. The project, which does not yet have a title, has not cast any actors yet. But when Ellison asked Sherman who could possibly play the one-time conservative kingmaker, he had some ideas.

    “Anthony Hopkins in the Hitchcock Film was a spitting image,” he said, while also floating John Goodman as a possibility.
    Well done Gabriel! But if we aren't treated to one scene of Ailes setting the network on fire while shouting "Look upon me! I'll show you the life of the mind!" I shall be disappointed.
    posted by octobersurprise at 10:35 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Just made a PDF of the thread. 1,018 pages, 22 MB.

    Next step.
    posted by mazola at 10:36 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Which actually leads me to wonder: what would happen if one of the candidates came down with laryngitis today? Almost everyone has been through a period where they basically just could not speak above a whisper for a few days, often for no obvious reason. What's the nearest precedent for a such a thing, and what happened?
    posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:36 AM on October 19, 2016


    But gerrymandering is drawing districts that fit the political result you want. State boundaries were not drawn with that in mind, and you cannot redraw them anyway.

    Some were. One of the reasons why we have both a North and South Dakota is because it gave the Republicans a majority in the house.
    posted by nathan_teske at 10:42 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    speaking of Sarah Palin, was she abducted by aliens? This election seems like the kind of shitshow in which she was born to wallow.

    The casting for the crazy role was already filled. Her details will be kept on file for future parts.
    posted by srboisvert at 10:43 AM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]




    Which actually leads me to wonder: what would happen if one of the candidates came down with laryngitis today? Almost everyone has been through a period where they basically just could not speak above a whisper for a few days, often for no obvious reason. What's the nearest precedent for a such a thing, and what happened?

    I have to assume it's not just the NFL that has team doctors who will prescribe just a little pinprick so there'll be some AAAAAHHHHHH. The Trump operation may not be professional enough to prioritize events and behavior in advance of a major appearance but I think most campaigns can manage.
    posted by phearlez at 10:45 AM on October 19, 2016


    We've reached peak Second Debate editing fun, so I guess it's time for another debate.
    posted by Sara C. at 10:45 AM on October 19, 2016




    I went undercover into the trump campaign… and couldn’t believe what I found

    Oh my god. This is... wow. I have a family member who has worked in Dem politics for over a decade, who has dragged me along on a number of canvasses and phone banks and whatever, and it's hard to explain how bad this is. Calling it amateurish is an insult to amateurs. It's maybe on par with a poorly-run state house campaign. The idea that a presidential campaign is being run this way is almost inconceivable.

    Amazing. Amazing. I can't wait for election day.
    posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 10:47 AM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    There are things you can do to overcome laryngitis short-term. They aren't particularly good for your voice long- or even medium- term, but if you need to be able to talk for 90 minutes, they can usually make that happen.
    posted by KathrynT at 10:48 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    I am definitely going to be interested in the total length of all of the election threads once this nightmare is over. How laughably low is a guess of 10M words?
    posted by prefpara at 10:50 AM on October 19, 2016



    NewYorker: Will Donald Trump Cost Republicans the Senate? A State-by-State Guide
    posted by ZeusHumms at 10:14 AM on October 19 [+] [!]


    We've been seeing so many heinous Toomey ads here in Philly. First, one where Toomey tries to establish himself as some kind of independent who will speak out against both Trumpian and Clintonian excess, and then a second, even worse series that talks shit about McGinty because even though he went hard Tea Party for a while, Toomey now needs suburban and independent votes shore up his weakness in Trump-land.

    And his solution to this has been to run a series of ads where a late-thirties white male actor speaks to me by delivering absolute horseshit about McGinty while pretending?????? to be a millenial?????? and we can tell because he is casually dressed?????????????? and rides a bike to get around????????????????

    In terms of pandering, it's significantly behind Hillary's ad with one of my all-time great celebrity crushes, now looking older but still close enough to the beautiful boy I watched in Dead Poets Society and then Sports Night, sweetly telling me how important professionals like me are.
    posted by joyceanmachine at 10:51 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Ivanka Trump and Anita Hill, getting into what appears to be a heated discussion backstage at Fortune's Most Powerful Women Summit. They're scheduled to be on stage back to back.
    posted by melissasaurus at 10:53 AM on October 19, 2016 [18 favorites]


    speaking of Sarah Palin, was she abducted by aliens? This election seems like the kind of shitshow in which she was born to wallow.

    Didn't she and Donny do a campaign appearance together early on that didn't go well/their personalities didn't mesh well?
    posted by Sara C. at 10:53 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    But gerrymandering is drawing districts that fit the political result you want. State boundaries were not drawn with that in mind, and you cannot redraw them anyway.

    Well, in a sense West Virginia was created to "gerrymander" the senate (and the government more generally) in favor of abolition, so the metaphor isn't totally off the rails.
    posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 10:54 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Didn't she and Donny do a campaign appearance together early on that didn't go well/their personalities didn't mesh well?

    There are also rumors, from I remember, that Palin wanted pay to play.

    And Trump's campaign refused.
    posted by joyceanmachine at 10:56 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Millwee told Breitbart that she interviewed Clinton about 20 times publicly and met with him in KLMN-TV’s editing room, which is where she said he allegedly groped her and rubbed his genitals on her.

    You know, the more and more this campaign season talks about sexual assaults, the more I'm realizing and remembering that like the 80s and 90s were just a neverending tide of sexual assault that at the time was considered mild, and that I myself experienced some which at the time I thought I just had to put up with. Like, dudes doing things to try to touch your breasts under some cover of plausibility was just like every day!

    So yeah I have no difficulty believing that Bill Clinton was a part of that horrible world that needed desperately to be burned down. And honestly, it's kind of freaking me out really badly when people are like "ha ha I mean isn't it stupid bringing out more Bill Clinton sexual assault allegations", because just because Trump is part of that terrible world that affected a lot of us in so many ways doesn't mean Clinton /also/ wasn't a part of it, that they weren't both Men With Power That Abused It.
    posted by corb at 10:56 AM on October 19, 2016 [32 favorites]


    Long before Pepe was usurped by the neo-nazis I had an irrational hatred of that frog. I was properly creeped out, so I'm okay with ceding him to the dark side and making my hatred a little more rational
    posted by TwoWordReview at 10:57 AM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    The running Palin rumor is that she's been dealing with her husband's snowmobile injury.
    posted by drezdn at 10:59 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]



    Didn't she and Donny do a campaign appearance together early on that didn't go well/their personalities didn't mesh well?


    Ah yes, back in the Surely This era.
    posted by zutalors! at 10:59 AM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Yeah, I am super uneasy with all this - I am not happy that we are pretty much going to have a plausibly accused rapist/assaulter as the President's husband, and that protocol is going to push us to hand-wave it away. And no matter how much I want Hillary to win, I feel queasy about her relationship with a rapist/harasser, and the fact that in order to get through the debate/political stuff, she is going to have to minimize it. It's not like she can stand up there and say "yes, it seems likely that my husband raped women, and that's really horrible".
    posted by Frowner at 10:59 AM on October 19, 2016 [15 favorites]


    The Anti-Defamation League report on anti-Semitic attacks on journalists during the election is out. TPM has a good overview: ADL: Small Cohort Of Trump Fans Behind Anti-Semitic Twitter Abuse Of Journalists:
    Using a broad set of keywords to identify anti-Semitic language, an ADL task force found that only 1,600 Twitter accounts were responsible for directing 19,253 anti-Semitic tweets at some 800 U.S. journalists on the social media site between August 2015 and July 2016.

    The most common words in the bios for those accounts were “Trump,” “nationalist,” “conservative” and “white.”

    “I can’t say that there’s causation but there is certainly a very clear statistical correlation,” ADL President Jonathan Greenblatt told TPM in a phone interview, adding that the task force didn’t find any statistically significant evidence of Hillary Clinton supporters spreading anti-Semitic messages.
    ...
    As a non-profit, the ADL, which works to combat anti-Semitism, does not support any political candidate or party. While the task force's report repeatedly emphasizes that Trump has not personally encouraged or condoned such hate speech, it contains striking findings about how his campaign has animated anti-Semites.

    Their research found the volume of anti-Semitic tweets directed at journalists soared from February onward, as election coverage intensified. They also spiked significantly during certain moments in the news cycle, including Feb. 29, during coverage of Trump’s initial refusal to condemn former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke; March 13, when Trump blamed Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) for violence at one of his campaign rallies; and May 17, when Melania Trump claimed that Julia Ioffe, a Politico contributor who wrote a profile of her, “provoked” the anti-Semitic attacks she received on social media.

    The task force concluded that this surge points to an “intentional and coordinated” attack against Jewish journalists in order to intimidate them. While many of the users appear to be anonymous trolls, they take marching orders from white supremacist leaders who are themselves banned from Twitter. Daily Stormer founder Andrew Anglin and Infostormer founder Lee Rogers told their followers to go after Ioffe for her Melania Trump profile, and her account was soon flooded with messages calling her a “filthy Russian kike” and threatening to burn her in an oven.
    NYT also has a good article: Anti-Semitic Posts, Many From Trump Supporters, Surge on Twitter.

    Twitter has got to do better here. This is not a particularly large number of users, most of the abuse is targeted toward a small cohort of journalists and a lot of this stuff isn't exactly very well coded or hard to find. That shouldn't be an unsolvable problem for Twitter. That said, this is a far bigger problem than just Twitter. The ADL is clear that, as a nonprofit, it isn't blaming Trump for these tweets, but it's clear to me that he has both implicitly egged them on (last week's speech being the most significant such occasion) and been willfully blind to what his supporters are doing.
    posted by zachlipton at 10:59 AM on October 19, 2016 [16 favorites]


    New iPhone is still loading the thread quickly. Election threads should be a new benchmarking tool for smartphone performance.

    My HTC 10 has no problems at all with the election threads. Not even when entering comments in the little box. As notorious ladies' man Mr Shank might note, this shit is tits.
    posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:00 AM on October 19, 2016


    There were reports during the week that both Disney and Salesforce passed on buying Twitter because of not wanting to be associated with the harassment and abuse. Perhaps now (along with the incidents with Leslie Jones earlier this year) they'll sit up and take notice and do something about it?
    posted by TwoWordReview at 11:02 AM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    MetaFilter: Calling it amateurish is an insult to amateurs.
    posted by kirkaracha at 11:04 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    While the task force's report repeatedly emphasizes that Trump has not personally encouraged or condoned such hate speech…

    That's kinda bullshit, actually. He has definitely both encouraged and condoned it. In fact, he's participated in it, albeit mostly via dogwhistles. Trump's antisemitism is very well documented at this point.
    posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:07 AM on October 19, 2016 [13 favorites]


    Re: local race ads. My district is running incumbent R John Katko against newbie D Colleen Deacon. She had no ad budget for months while Katko ran nonstop ads that ended with "John Katko, Independent." Suddenly, out of nowhere, Deacon has been flooding the airwaves with an ad linking Trump to Katko's radio interviews in support of Trump and him reneging on his promise never to vote to defund Planned Parenthood. Deacon is a weak candidate, but she's no weaker than the last Dem we had, a kind of nerdy guy with zero charisma when it came to pressing flesh and kissing babies.
    posted by xyzzy at 11:08 AM on October 19, 2016


    I realized this morning that I have officially arrived at Election Has Ingested My Life. After I found out that for inescapable logistic reasons I can't go to the Billy Bragg + Joe Henry concert I was planning to attend tonight , was I bummed? A little* but more relieved that it would allow me to stay home and watch the Keepin' It 1600 post-debate show (and possibly the debate itself, if it's not too gross). WTF, Fellini?

    *I'll be sad to miss the choice comments Bragg will undoubtedly make about the whole mess.
    posted by FelliniBlank at 11:09 AM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    I voted today!

    First day of early voting in Tennessee. The line was an hour and 20 minutes, and it seemed like it's been that way all day so far.
    posted by Huffy Puffy at 11:11 AM on October 19, 2016 [28 favorites]


    Paul Ryan favorability rating among TRUMP VOTERS

    Last week: +8
    This week: -36
    [tweet; poll from YouGov]
    posted by melissasaurus at 11:12 AM on October 19, 2016 [32 favorites]


    If you can read this then the thread loads slow but okay, and I can comment on it, on my crappy cheap Samsung Galaxy Tab smartphone atop a combine harvester.
    posted by Wordshore at 11:12 AM on October 19, 2016 [11 favorites]


    Didn't she and Donny do a campaign appearance together early on that didn't go well/their personalities didn't mesh well?

    She endorsed him in a manner that was deeply odd even by her standards, inventing the rather lovely word 'squirmishes' in the process. [real]
    posted by jack_mo at 11:12 AM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    I don't want to sweep Bill under the rug, but that has literally nothing to do with HRC's candidacy. At most I'd say it should limit Bill's domestic brief, which it appears to have already done. But we'd be negligent not to use his talents where he can do good without doing harm -- like sending him to Israel.

    That said, the continued gas lighting is not ok. I'd love to eventually see a public, national accounting for monstrous behavior, but that feels like a fantasy.
    posted by schadenfrau at 11:13 AM on October 19, 2016 [15 favorites]


    I know there are extremely good reasons why this is impossible, but I am just aching to know what the vote counts in early voting look like so far. I wish I could see a running total somewhere. Again, I know that I can't have this and that it would be bad if I could, but I neeeeeed it!
    posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:13 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Bill is making speeches for Hillary. He's her husband and surrogate in drumming up support. He is not running for office, but he is a part of her campaign, just like Giuliani and Trump's sons are for him.
    posted by gusottertrout at 11:15 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Bill is making speeches for Hillary. He's her husband and surrogate in drumming up support. He is not running for office, but he is a part of her campaign, just like Giuliani and Trump's son's are for him.
    posted by gusottertrout at 11:15 AM on October 19 [+] [!]


    I thought they'd taken him off the campaign trail?
    posted by schadenfrau at 11:18 AM on October 19, 2016




    I don't know whether we should take away Wordshore's smartphone or his combine harvester.
    posted by yhbc at 11:21 AM on October 19, 2016 [24 favorites]


    inventing the rather lovely word 'squirmishes' in the process

    I have very little good to say about her and her like, but I will give them this: Whether it is intentional or otherwise, they sometimes invent some heckin' great words. Misunderestimate, squirmishes and bigly are all really really good words.
    posted by middleclasstool at 11:22 AM on October 19, 2016 [19 favorites]


    Yeah, I'm with gusottertrout here. Bill Clinton isn't running for president, but he's definitely one of Hillary Clinton's closest associates and when she's elected he'll have a prominent (if almost entirely symbolic) place in her administration. I'm not OK with his treatment of women and I can't just ignore that simply because he's on "my team." It doesn't affect my vote, but it does bother me. Like Frowner, I understand that there's no way that Hillary can get out of minimizing his behavior—she's got a campaign to win here—but I still don't like it.
    posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:23 AM on October 19, 2016 [33 favorites]


    If you can read this then the thread loads slow but okay, and I can comment on it, on my crappy cheap Samsung Galaxy Tab smartphone atop a combine harvester.
    Man, raking hay would have been so much more interesting if smartphones had existed 25 years ago.
    posted by jferg at 11:23 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Isn't "bigly" just a deliberate mishearing of "big league?" Is it actually something Trump says? I've always heard it as "big league," used as an intensifier in the way that people often use "big time."
    posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:25 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    I voted today!

    I, too, exercised my franchise today by hand-delivering my absentee ballot. So now I can get hit by a bus or whatever without letting down the nation, basically. Whew!
    posted by FelliniBlank at 11:26 AM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    I thought they'd taken him off the campaign trail?

    If they have, it was really recent and very hush hush. He made a speech in that Broadway for Hillary thing was my understanding. She'll win despite him. I just don't believe he deserves any special consideration this time, especially in light of all the issues being raised by the election.
    posted by gusottertrout at 11:26 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    > Misunderestimate, squirmishes and bigly are all really really good words.

    Let's not forget "refudiate," my personal favorite.
    posted by Spathe Cadet at 11:28 AM on October 19, 2016 [21 favorites]


    So the rationalization is that it's okay to use Bill's actions as a cudgel against the actual candidate because he's a surrogate? We're cool with things that give the appearance of holding a woman accountable for a man's actions?
    posted by palomar at 11:29 AM on October 19, 2016 [25 favorites]


    It annoys me that Bill is such a fucking liability. It must be so frustrating for Hillary to have worked so hard for so long and sacrificed so much on a personal level to get to this place, even to the extent that she let her husband go first, and to have been constantly dragged down by her husband's philandering. He's a boat anchor; if she were to lose this election, his scandals would probably be the thing that made the difference between victory and defeat.

    I imagine that Hillary must have thoughts about her husband that for reasons of political expediency will never ever ever leave the inside of her head.
    posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:31 AM on October 19, 2016 [60 favorites]


    Isn't "bigly" just a deliberate mishearing of "big league?"

    Not consistently deliberate, as far as I can tell. Between Trump's propensity to lean on superlatives, his generally underperforming vocabulary, and the way he swallows the lingua-velar stop in "league", a whole lot of people have genuinely parsed it as "bigly", and I've seen plenty of straight-faced arguments about whether it's one or the other.

    At this point my impression is that it's decisively "big league" rather than something he's inconsistent on, but I think there's a real variety of things going on with the "bigly" references.
    posted by cortex at 11:31 AM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    I know someone who does court-mandated counseling for sexual predators. She claims that a healthy percentage of her clients are reformable (without giving details, of course.) I just hope that Bill has seen the error of his ways and reformed. It's the best I can do and the most generous I can be.
    posted by xyzzy at 11:32 AM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    @jpiacenza: White evangelicals have jumped 42 pts (!) in accepting politicians' immoral personal acts: 30% (2011) to 72% (2016) [PRRI]

    I don't think I've ever seen a clearer definition given for "It's OK if you're a Republican."
    posted by Mayor West at 11:33 AM on October 19, 2016 [52 favorites]


    Donald Trump Can’t Stand Losing to a Girl
    Trying to make this a battle between Trump and Obama or between Trump and Bill Clinton does follow a pattern that has marked the general election: Trump is more comfortable fighting male politicians of either party than he is in confrontation with Hillary.
    ...
    This weird behavior could easily be blamed on Trump’s lack of political polish. And it’s true that at the best of times, he finds it hard to make coherent arguments unless delivering a prepared speech. Left on his own, he often displays the attention span of a very small child who has eaten too much candy.

    But there’s also something else going on here. Trump simply can’t deal with the fact that his opponent is a woman.
    posted by kirkaracha at 11:34 AM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]



    I just went to the store to get the chocolate cake for the debate tonight and found something way better. Our household will now be enjoying a dozen chocolate cupcakes with orange icing!

    Also found that by the time I made it to the checkout I had all the fixings for tacos.

    Wonder how that happened hmm....
    posted by Jalliah at 11:34 AM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    So the rationalization is that it's okay to use Bill's actions as a cudgel against the actual candidate because he's a surrogate? We're cool with things that give the appearance of holding a woman accountable for a man's actions?

    No, but like - if the consensus is that men who commit sexual assaults should retire from public life and atone - and I think they should - then we shouldn't exempt Bill Clinton because he's charming and married to Hillz and plays for NotFascist Team and looks like he has a blast playing with balloons. Don't use it as a reason not to elect her - but if she gets elected and then starts using him for First Lad events as though there were nothing wrong with him or what he has done, I'm going to be deeply disappointed.
    posted by corb at 11:35 AM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    Bill Clinton isn't running for president, but he's definitely one of Hillary Clinton's closest associates and when she's elected he'll have a prominent (if almost entirely symbolic) place in her administration. I'm not OK with his treatment of women and I can't just ignore that simply because he's on "my team." It doesn't affect my vote, but it does bother me.

    Agreed. However, I do think it's important that there do not appear to be any new allegations after the impeachment (happy to be corrected on that). Not that his actions were ok because they were a long time ago, but that it does seem that he has learned something and actually changed -- maybe not his thoughts or in his heart of hearts, but it does seem he has changed his behavior. Do I think he should still be held accountable for his earlier actions? Yes, and I don't think there should be a criminal statute of limitations for those things; good luck in court, Mr. President. But, unlike Trump and Ailes and Weiner and so many others he seems to have stopped the criminal/problem behavior circa 1997.
    posted by melissasaurus at 11:36 AM on October 19, 2016 [11 favorites]


    I love it. She can't win no matter what she does.
    posted by palomar at 11:38 AM on October 19, 2016 [21 favorites]


    I know there are extremely good reasons why this is impossible, but I am just aching to know what the vote counts in early voting look like so far. I wish I could see a running total somewhere. Again, I know that I can't have this and that it would be bad if I could, but I neeeeeed it!

    You can't have exactly what you want but you can have some very positive indicators. Here in Arlington VA the early voting numbers are 50% higher than they were in 2012. And in 2012 we gave 69% of our votes to Obama. Fairfax is similarly up and they went 59% for Obama. And this area went Rubio in the primaries.
    posted by phearlez at 11:38 AM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    My favorite new word is when Greg Nog likened Republicans to wiener dogs "snurfling" up to Trump, which is hilariously pathetic. Also liked "fazoozle" as in "Donald fazoozled around the stage for 90 minutes."
    posted by Taft at 11:40 AM on October 19, 2016 [10 favorites]


    Witnesses said 32-year-old Christina Ferguson stormed into the club meeting on Monday night, holding what a Portage County deputy’s report described as a “family-size jar of low-sodium, creamy natural Jif,” according to the Stevens Point City Times.

    A big Iggy Pop fan perhaps.
    posted by juiceCake at 11:42 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Isn't "bigly" just a deliberate mishearing of "big league?" Is it actually something Trump says? I've always heard it as "big league," used as an intensifier in the way that people often use "big time."

    My suspicion is that Trump is saying "Bigly". However, the thing that someone NEAR Trump said was "big league", and Trump HIMSELF was who first heard it as "bigly" and started using it thus.
    posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:43 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    I love it. She can't win no matter what she does.

    Actually, she can win, and she is winning.
    posted by Roommate at 11:43 AM on October 19, 2016 [16 favorites]


    Also found that by the time I made it to the checkout I had all the fixings for tacos.

    Now there's a great idea. I shall make my home a taco truck tonight in honor of the debate. (Man, if I'm this susceptible to suggestion, thank god I don't hang out with Billy Bush.)
    posted by FelliniBlank at 11:43 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Watch Bruce Springsteen Explain Why Donald Trump Is 'Going to Lose':
    Bruce Springsteen called Donald Trump a "flagrant, toxic narcissist" intent on destroying the democratic process in a new interview with Channel 4 News. "The trouble at the moment is you have Donald Trump, who is talking about rigged elections ... He has a feeling he's going to lose now, which of course he is going to lose."
    Reports of the interview sent the Chris Christie Current Despair Level to record new heights as he began to realize he had displeased The Boss.
    posted by zachlipton at 11:45 AM on October 19, 2016 [23 favorites]


    I mean, I think it's obvious that I'm talking about winning in the court of public opinion about how she should have handled the private matter of her marriage and how she should treat her husband now in the face of no evidence of any wrongdoing since he was punished for his actions... but I know it's fun to be cute and pretend that I'm talking about something else, so have at.
    posted by palomar at 11:45 AM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    I don't know whether we should take away Wordshore's smartphone or his combine harvester.

    Wordshore's phone could make movies from the deck of the combine.
    posted by kingless at 11:46 AM on October 19, 2016


    My response is to both quotes below, I didn't respond to the second because it was way old by the time I got to it and I didn't want to circle back, but now my response really is relevant to both.

    No, but like - if the consensus is that men who commit sexual assaults should retire from public life and atone - and I think they should - then we shouldn't exempt Bill Clinton because he's charming and married to Hillz and plays for NotFascist Team and looks like he has a blast playing with balloons. Don't use it as a reason not to elect her - but if she gets elected and then starts using him for First Lad events as though there were nothing wrong with him or what he has done, I'm going to be deeply disappointed.

    RE: MELANIA: I have wondered for months why she has been so scarce on the campaign trail. I thought perhaps Donald was being protective of her but that doesn't seem in his character. Possibly it is because she does not go over well with his nativist crowds and possibly because she has a hellava resting bitch face-- every time I see her I think she is mad about something. Or maybe she just didn't want anything to do with this campaign. What do I know about their personal life?


    I would be very pleased if whomever is the spouse of the next president declined any public role stemming from their spouse's election. "You want a host(ess) and charity spokesperson? Hire one. I didn't apply for that job and you don't get to shove it on me just because my spouse was elected. I'm a private citizen and I request that the press respect my privacy." Then go about their lives. In Clinton's case that might mean doing his foundation stuff etc. and being an Elder or whatever. In Trump's it means flattering the Donald and repairing his fragile ego at every turn or whatever she does.

    And before someone comes out with the "they can't do anything because they would have a conflict" argument, I point out that the exact same conflicts and risks exist for the president's adult children, yet no one expects them to quit their jobs for 8 years.
    posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:46 AM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    melissasaurus, that's not a bad point and what I would love to see would be some kind of public apology from Bill regarding his past behavior, and for him to show some genuine, thoughtful understanding of why what he did was wrong and why he no longer behaves that way. It could wait until after the election, and probably should—it should be spontaneous, confessional, and ideally be framed as a way to start a dialogue among men in this country about the way that we think about and act toward women.

    If he really is well and truly reformed then he would be an excellent person to start that conversation. Men in this country need to be able to look inside their hearts, accept that they've been thinking and doing some really fucked-up shit, and be able to move forward in a more positive way. It's a really necessary step along the path to healing and reconciliation; men need to accept the wrong they've been doing, resolve to do better, and then actually do that over the course of many years. If Bill Clinton has done that for himself, then I can't think of a better person to champion that difficult, painful, shame-ridden, introspective process on a national scale.

    Fat chance, though.
    posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:47 AM on October 19, 2016 [22 favorites]


    It annoys me that Bill is such a fucking liability. It must be so frustrating for Hillary to have worked so hard for so long and sacrificed so much on a personal level to get to this place, even to the extent that she let her husband go first, and to have been constantly dragged down by her husband's philandering. He's a boat anchor; if she were to lose this election, his scandals would probably be the thing that made the difference between victory and defeat.

    I imagine that Hillary must have thoughts about her husband that for reasons of political expediency will never ever ever leave the inside of her head.


    It seems to me (while also saying that I have no reason to think they don't really genuinely love each other) that Bill and Hillary hitched their wagons together because each of them had a strength that the other lacked, or at least lacked relative to the other. Hillary is a brilliant, strategic, detail-oriented wonk to a way greater degree than Bill; Bill is an incredibly charming and charismatic person to a way greater degree than Hillary.

    Combining those strengths was a good idea. But the problem is, incredibly charming and charismatic men are also dangerous (to themselves and to others) because they often start to think they can get away with anything. This often extends to getting any woman they want.

    I'm not saying Hillary wouldn't have gotten this far without Bill - in fact it seems equally if not more likely that Bill wouldn't have gotten this far without Hillary. But re: your post, I think Bill's charisma and his abuse of women are two sides of the same coin, and his charisma has been an asset to Hillary. Enough of an asset to outweigh the liability? I think it's entirely possible.
    posted by showbiz_liz at 11:47 AM on October 19, 2016 [11 favorites]


    For those who were wondering upthread about how many lies Trump has told, Daniel Dale wrote this for Politico: Confessions of a Trump Fact-Checker. I spent 33 days fact-checking 253 Donald Trump falsehoods. Here’s what I’ve learned.
    posted by zombieflanders at 11:48 AM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    I mean, I think it's obvious that I'm talking about winning in the court of public opinion about how she should have handled the private matter of her marriage

    Here's the thing about the "court of public opinion" - it's not a monolith, all or nothing, 100% for or against "entity". Different people will have different opinions on the matter! And they will voice those opinions! If "winning" means everyone has to agree that the situation is hunky dory, nothing to see here - that will never happen, no matter what the issue is. In this case, Bill's actions are a specter over the election season, moreso because of the fact that Trump's (similar but not the same) actions are also a factor. It's useless to pretend otherwise. So: yes, it's true, she can't "win".

    But, all the same: She is winning. And she will win. Because while it is a factor, and one people will opine on, for better or worse - it's not the only factor and it's not the deciding factor.
    posted by Roommate at 11:55 AM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I love it. She can't win no matter what she does.

    Well you know what? Sometimes there is no winning choice, just the least shitty one. Every person above has said that they accept the way HR Clinton has threaded this needle and the importance of allowing for those choices. You're speaking as if that means she should totally get off any inspection and responsibility with regards to bringing an accused rapist and admitted sexual harasser into the White House.

    Fuck that. Monica Lewinsky is going to carry this shit around for the rest of her life. Should Bill Clinton get to put down his involvement just because it is problematic for his spouse? Because nobody has promised to send him off to Siberia. He's presumably going to be in the White House and have a staff. Should we just not care about whether he harasses any of those women working for him because it might put HRC in a position where she can't win no matter what she does?

    since he was punished for his actions.

    When was he punished for the accused rape? And you are either being disingenuous by disregarding the potential harm he can cause to women in the White House if he's still a harasser or you're just completely ignoring it.

    HRC has absolutely gotten an unbelievably unfair treatment over her husband's misdeeds. But that's not a check to redeem for an advance indulgence from responsibility for potentially empowering him Paterno-style.
    posted by phearlez at 11:55 AM on October 19, 2016 [15 favorites]


    Anita Hill: I'd Do It All Over Again [a writeup of her interview at the Fortune Most Powerful Women summit]:
    “I think we are in the middle of this conversation right now in a way we weren’t 25 years ago,” Hill said. “We’re more energized in terms of what we do about sexual harassment and sexual assault.” But this time we need to do more than acknowledge it’s a problem and instead “take control of the conversation and move it forward and take it to the next level” in order to “prevent us from handing over the same problem to another generation of women.”

    She noted that a lot of the women speaking out today are asked why they haven’t come forward earlier, which “is exactly what I heard,” she said. “It was clear how I was treated in 1991 why I didn’t come forward before.”

    Hill said that women often end up speaking out if they feel they can prevent something bad from happening to someone else. “I think there’s a lesson in that,” she said. She said as a society the question needs to shift from “why didn’t you come forward but why didn’t we do more to motivate individuals to come forward.”
    posted by melissasaurus at 11:55 AM on October 19, 2016 [24 favorites]


    I do think it's important that there do not appear to be any new allegations after the impeachment (happy to be corrected on that). Not that his actions were ok because they were a long time ago, but that it does seem that he has learned something and actually changed -- maybe not his thoughts or in his heart of hearts, but it does seem he has changed his behavior.

    I agree, and I also consider it an important factor that his behaviour actually had consequences. The world would be a fairer place if that happened for all abusers.
    posted by Too-Ticky at 11:57 AM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    How great would it be if there a factchecking buzzer that went off every time Donald lied during the debate? It'd be like that lie detector scene with Moe in the Simpsons.
    posted by entropicamericana at 11:59 AM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    Reports of the interview sent the Chris Christie Current Despair Level to record new heights as he began to realize he had displeased The Boss.

    Man. I feel a little bit of sympathy for the guy. Not a lot! But, like, whatever else happens in my life, I am very unlikely to become the governor of New Jersey and then get specifically told off by Bruce Springsteen, you know? If your childhood idol reviews your work and concludes "fuck that guy," that's got to hurt.

    Not that Christie doesn't deserve every second of it. I'm just saying.
    posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 11:59 AM on October 19, 2016 [10 favorites]


    Yeah. I'm not blaming Hillary here for what she's doing, I'm saying that Bill's actions have put her in an incredibly difficult bind. She has to either sacrifice some of her feminist credibility by actively, publicly downplaying her husband's legitimately problematic behavior, or she has to abandon her career. There's no way for her to win, but she wasn't the one who put herself in this situation. Bill did that.
    posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:00 PM on October 19, 2016 [11 favorites]


    Fuck that. Monica Lewinsky is going to carry this shit around for the rest of her life.

    Actually, Monica Lewinsky seems to be of the opinion that it's the rest of the world that is expecting her to carry this shit around, when she'd rather they not, thanks.

    I totally agree that people who have been accused of sexual misconduct shouldn't get off scot-free, but I also think that we should allow the victims to have first right of refusal when it comes to whether they want to pursue things or let them drop.
    posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:01 PM on October 19, 2016 [41 favorites]


    melissasaurus, that's not a bad point and what I would love to see would be some kind of public apology from Bill regarding his past behavior, and for him to show some genuine, thoughtful understanding of why what he did was wrong and why he no longer behaves that way. It could wait until after the election, and probably should—it should be spontaneous, confessional, and ideally be framed as a way to start a dialogue among men in this country about the way that we think about and act toward women.

    I totally agree that a serious public apology from Bill would be ideal. And I kinda get the impression he realizes by now how badly he fucked up. It's telling to me that we've never hears

    It also should've happened like three years ago. Coming after this election basically says, "Yeah, we sidestepped this out of political expediency," which sucks. They could come clean on that, too, and say "We sidestepped this because the alternative was losing the White House to a racist fascist lunatic in Cheeto dust." I think it's worth doing regardless, but there will be major political consequences, and HRC is going to want to run again in 2020. And that election will matter, too. It's hard to believe the Republicans will have seen the light by then.

    I want him to apologize and atone. It needs to happen. It's also hard to blame the Clintons for making a political calculus along the way given the stakes at play.
    posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:02 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    What the actual fuck is wrong with cable news?

    CNN decided several years ago to go low
    instead of go out of existence. It's repugnant, but they (sort of) recovered some of their rating share they lost to the agitprop newstainment networks. If they'd gone high there'd be no CNN today.

    News should not be sought after on cable television outlets, it's largely suspect as journalism or not even journalism at all.
    posted by mcstayinskool at 12:02 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Absentee voting report:
    Living in Mississippi, it doesn't matter that I vote as much as it does elsewhere, but even though I am temporarily living with my mom several counties away, NOTHING was going to stop me from filling in that oval. So, I went to a bank for a notary public, who 1. Didn't understand "what a 'sworn oath'" is, 2. didn't know on what day the election will be, and 3. said, "I guess they want a notary because of all those dead people voting." I said, "That is not really a thing that happens." She said, "Well, there's just so much both sides are saying about it!" I surreptitiously took a photo of my darkened oval beside "Hillary Clinton" with, I admit, tears in my eyes, and determined not to let this dumbass ruin my moment. I JUST VOTED FOR THE FIRST WOMAN PRESIDENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE USA!
    posted by thebrokedown at 12:05 PM on October 19, 2016 [48 favorites]


    I would also like to state that everyone else deserves a personal award and hereby award everyone with their own rewarding personal awards, whatever they might be.

    Dibs on Jalliah's chocolate cake.


    And thus the term "JCC" was born.

    If you've worked at lowering your personal JCPL, you might deserve a personal JCC* to mark the accomplishment.

    21 more days should give us ample time to put it into use.

    *can be any reward of your choosing, don't limit yourself to cake!
    posted by VTX at 12:06 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    If you can read this then the thread loads slow but okay, and I can comment on it, on my crappy cheap Samsung Galaxy Tab smartphone atop a combine harvester

    Dammit, we warned you not to do that last time.
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:07 PM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    If they'd gone high there'd be no CNN today.

    Yes, RIP Al Jazeera America.
    posted by zutalors! at 12:07 PM on October 19, 2016 [20 favorites]


    If you can read this then the thread loads slow but okay, and I can comment on it, on my crappy cheap Samsung Galaxy Tab smartphone atop a combine harvester

    To shreds, you say?
    posted by Mayor West at 12:08 PM on October 19, 2016 [16 favorites]


    One other thought, as I brought this up long ago on another thread:

    What is Hillary supposed to do if she genuinely believes Bill?
    I'm not trying to defend him. But I think she and Bill actually love each other. And the stuff with Monica all came out & they got past that. So.
    What is she supposed to do if she believes he didn't assault or rape anyone?
    posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:09 PM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    To Donald Trump, we are all bit players in a fantasy America starring Donald Trump by Sarah Kendzior
    Trump’s comments on cities are among the clearest evidence yet that Trump has little respect for actual inhabitants of actual places. So little, he does not worry they will counter him with facts about their own hometowns, or be offended by his gross inaccuracies. They are merely bit players in a fantasy America starring Donald Trump. These urban dwellers appear in his speeches over and over – not as human beings with whom he has engaged, but as caricatures in a dated tragedy. [...]

    Then there is his contention that poverty exists in two places: impoverished majority white small towns, where his followers live, and dangerous “inner cities”. Suburbs do not fit into this equation, but suburbs – both diverse and impoverished – are where the crisis of American poverty has spread.
    posted by melissasaurus at 12:11 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    CNN decided several years ago to go low instead of go out of existence.

    Being old enough to remember as more or less an adult when Wolf Blitzer was cowering under his table in Baghdad, I would dispute whether they had ever gone high.
    posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:11 PM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    I chatted a bit with a woman (early 60's in my estimate) in the early voting line today (she started it b/c I have sworn off talking politics to EVERYONE for fear of finding out they are Trumpists). Anyways - it was pleasant in general and specifically heartening when she told me that Trump actually had her vote until the Access Hollywood tape came out. It was good to have (admittedly one, and anecdotal) confirmation that this is a thing that is happening!
    posted by Golem XIV at 12:12 PM on October 19, 2016 [28 favorites]


    scaryblackdeath: "One other thought, as I brought this up long ago on another thread:

    What is Hillary supposed to do if she genuinely believes Bill?
    I'm not trying to defend him. But I think she and Bill actually love each other. And the stuff with Monica all came out & they got past that. So.
    What is she supposed to do if she believes he didn't assault or rape anyone?
    "

    I think believing that would be a mistake, and I also think she is too intelligent to be manipulated by her feelings in this regard.

    (edited to include quoted comment)
    posted by erratic meatsack at 12:12 PM on October 19, 2016


    People taking pictures of their ballots really bothers me. There's a very good reason it's illegal. Photographing ballots, showing your ballot, etc. violates the principle of the secret ballot. If I wanted to pay you, blackmail you, threaten you, or even pressure you to vote a certain way, you could just tell me you had voted a certain way and how could I know otherwise. But if you can take a picture of your ballot, I can demand proof. I know people taking pictures are mostly doing it voluntarily, but by normalizing this as a thing people do (people take pics of their ballots, what's the big deal?), you open the door to coerced voting. Maybe today's selfie wasn't required, but maybe someone else or someone next election is being threatened, and how would you know the difference between them and someone taking a fun selfie?

    I know being obsessive about the principle of the secret ballot just isn't a thing in the U.S., but it matters and you all should think about it. Not because someone is going to steal or buy an election, but just because the democratic process is undermined and when it's undermined, people's faith in democracy is undermined.
    posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:13 PM on October 19, 2016 [36 favorites]


    when Wolf Blitzer was cowering under his table in Baghdad

    Well, that's a charitable way of remembering that he was reporting from an active war zone.
    posted by Etrigan at 12:14 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Egg at 31%.
    posted by drezdn at 12:16 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    If "winning" means everyone has to agree that the situation is hunky rosy dory

    FTFY
    posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 12:16 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Just delurking to say thanks to the mods—I just signed up for a regular monthly donation because damn, you are all earning it. Buy yourselves margaritas and tacos on me.
    posted by Wilbefort at 12:16 PM on October 19, 2016 [46 favorites]


    Photographing your ballot isn't prohibited in every state: http://www.dmlp.org/state-law-documenting-vote-2012
    posted by showbiz_liz at 12:17 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Isn't it peachy dory
    posted by zutalors! at 12:17 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Cable has been out in the building for the second day and everyone is much more relaxed without the constant background noise of the election. I'll be able to watch the debate on the.ipad but it still won't seem to fill up as much airspace, which is a good thing.

    The running Palin rumor is that she's been dealing with her husband's snowmobile injury

    I totally forgot about this. I take back the abducted by aliens part.

    New iPhone is still loading the thread quickly

    Lucky. Mine is coming Oct 26 so hopefully I'll be good for the big day.
    posted by Room 641-A at 12:18 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    People taking pictures of their ballots really bothers me. There's a very good reason it's illegal. Photographing ballots, showing your ballot, etc. violates the principle of the secret ballot. If I wanted to pay you, blackmail you, threaten you, or even pressure you to vote a certain way, you could just tell me you had voted a certain way and how could I know otherwise. But if you can take a picture of your ballot, I can demand proof. I know people taking pictures are mostly doing it voluntarily, but by normalizing this as a thing people do (people take pics of their ballots, what's the big deal?), you open the door to coerced voting. Maybe today's selfie wasn't required, but maybe someone else or someone next election is being threatened, and how would you know the difference between them and someone taking a fun selfie?

    This definitely doesn't smell like a 50 comment/30 minute argument waiting to happen...
    posted by DynamiteToast at 12:18 PM on October 19, 2016 [14 favorites]


    I thought Trump was saying 'bigly' myself, but hit twitter feed has a history of saying 'big league' going back to 2012.

    Bigly doesn't show up.

    Thus, the Trump Twitter corpus supports that he is saying 'big league'.
    posted by airish at 12:19 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Yes, RIP Al Jazeera America.

    I see your point entirely but CNN is not run by a filthy rich Qatari government. CNN wasn't going to be around if they kept to doing "plain ol' news". This is not lauding their behavior, just describing the desolate apocalypse of cable news.

    edit: oh shit, Al Jazeera America is shuttered? Well hell, okay then. Yes, RIP Al Jazeera America.
    posted by mcstayinskool at 12:19 PM on October 19, 2016


    I'm not blaming Hillary here for what she's doing, I'm saying that Bill's actions have put her in an incredibly difficult bind. She has to either sacrifice some of her feminist credibility by actively, publicly downplaying her husband's legitimately problematic behavior, or she has to abandon her career.

    Yeah. I mean - I am hoping she wins here! But - hmm, let me think this out and process this.

    Why Hillary the person is still married to her husband is her own business. Everyone makes a variety of calculations on how the hell to live in this incredibly difficult world we live in - not the one we want to exist, but the one that does. I don't blame any woman for the choices they make in those most personal of matters.

    But I think it's reasonable to ask the politician standing up and saying, "It's important to believe accusers when they tell their stories", if at this stage of her evolution, if she still believes the accusers - still stands to her feminist principles - when the man they are accusing is her husband.

    In a world where rapists and harassers frequently have their wrongdoing painted over because they are powerful, or important, or useful, or "have a future ahead of them", I think it's reasonable to ask why Hillary Clinton is making one of the public faces of her campaign a man who is really good at campaigning, but has multiple, multiple accusations of sexual harassment, assault, and rape against him. I think it's reasonable to ask, that if her calculus - if the calculus of the President of the United States - says that it's more important to pay attention to a rapists' usefulness than his crimes, why should anyone else think otherwise?
    posted by corb at 12:21 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    It annoys me that Bill is such a fucking liability.
    Me too, so much. I wish Bill Clinton had been sufficiently decent to come up with a way he could make a sacrifice for her career equal to the ones she has had to make for his. Go on TV and sit there for two hours talking to, say, Bill Moyers, and hurl his own self under the bus for once. Look here, America, I need to clear this up because it's getting in a lot of good people's way and keeping a lot of good progress from happening. Monica Lewinsky didn't do anything wrong. She was a kid and I treated her like garbage and then I lied about it all over the place over and over again. It ruined her life then and it's continued to hurt her for years and held her back from some of the good things that she wanted to do. It hurt my wife then, and it's still hurting her, now, and holding her back, too. It's hurt the democratic party for decades and held us back. Now it's hurting my country and it's not just holding us back but threatening to push us back, way back, because people can't see why electing another Clinton would be any different from electing a demented sociopathic mini-mussolini. I'm real sorry, America. I'm sorry for lying about my shitty behavior for years and years and for never really atoning for it. I'm not going to live in the white house if y'all elect Hillary, America. I'm going to stay in Arkansas and build a bunch of no-cost drug and alcohol rehab centers instead. I feel like I need to spend the four to eight years of the Rodham-Clinton administration solving some problems, having created so many.
    posted by Don Pepino at 12:21 PM on October 19, 2016 [35 favorites]


    What is Hillary supposed to do if she genuinely believes Bill?

    Whatever she believes, the only thing she can do is deflect and downplay. Any kind of head-on confrontation with that issue would destroy her politically. She doesn't get to tell anyone what her private opinion is; the risk of it being leaked and blowing up in her face is just too great. Her only option, if she wants to continue to have a life in politics, is to follow the narrative of, "We love each other, we worked past it, we're stronger than ever." Anything else would be suicidal, and even taking that option—the only one that she's allowed—makes her look slippery and calculating and dishonest. It's not the complete self-immolation that direct confrontation would be, but it still harms her.

    It also must be incredibly painful to have to put on that face and pretend as hard as she can that she's presenting us with her authentic feelings about this issue, knowing as she must that she can never look great doing it, that even if it really is what she believes (and the truth must at very least be more complicated) millions of people are going to assume that she's just doing what she has to do to get power. Because what she's doing is so obviously the only thing she can do if she wants to get power, and it's obvious that she wants it (and I want her to have it).

    It sucks so hard, and there's no way she can ever get out of it. She must have done the mental calculus the instant the Lewinsky scandal broke, seen the line she would have to walk the rest of her political life, realized how hypocritical it was going to make her look and how much it was going to damage the public's trust in her, and just gritted her teeth and decided to go all-in because she'd come too damn far to give up just because Bill couldn't keep his dick in his pants.
    posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:21 PM on October 19, 2016 [15 favorites]




    I wasn't snarking mcstayinskool and am a little confused by your comment.
    posted by zutalors! at 12:23 PM on October 19, 2016


    What the actual fuck is wrong with cable news?

    cronkite died a loong loong time ago...
    posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 12:23 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    If I wanted to pay you, blackmail you, threaten you, or even pressure you to vote a certain way, you could just tell me you had voted a certain way and how could I know otherwise. But if you can take a picture of your ballot, I can demand proof.

    That's not proof they voted in a certain way. That's proof they filled out a ballot that way. In the time subsequent to filling it out they can take it to an election worker and say they made a mistake, the election official marks it 'spoilt' and hands them a new one. It's not a vote when it's filled out, it's a vote when it's submitted.

    And as stated above, it is not in fact illegal everywhere. Here in VA our AG Mark Herring just recently wrote a letter indicating it was not an issue here.
    posted by phearlez at 12:23 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    I'm really worried. A couple of tracking polls aren't following sampling polls. It's really diverging and it normally doesn't really do that.
    posted by Talez at 12:24 PM on October 19, 2016


    In a world where rapists and harassers frequently have their wrongdoing painted over because they are powerful

    Alleged.

    And not corroborated by the accused's own words.

    Just because you have a hate-on for Bill doesn't mean every allegation coming up from the Trump campaign is equal to the Lewinsky affair.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 12:24 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    What the actual fuck is wrong with cable news?

    The expectation of profit.
    posted by snuffleupagus at 12:25 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Paul Waldman: In tonight’s debate, Trump will probably try something crazy — and fail
    [Trump] has decided that the most important thing for him to do right now is claim that the whole election is rigged against him. Let’s assume that he sincerely believes that’s true. How is talking about it so much supposed to help?

    You can bet he’ll bring this question up during the debate, and you can also be that Clinton will have an answer prepared. My guess is that she’ll use it as an opportunity to mobilize her supporters, to say that Trump is trying to delegitimize the election and threaten the votes of certain people, particularly African-Americans (it’s why why always mentions Philadelphia and Chicago when he raises the specter of people voting fraudulently), and the best way to keep him from succeeding is to make sure you get to the polls.

    Clinton understands that right now, mobilization is critical for her. But if anything, Trump is demobilizing his supporters by telling them that they’re votes are probably going to be stolen from them one way or another. More importantly, the key fact about the way Trump is campaigning right now is that he seems to have no idea that he needs to persuade voters who aren’t already supporting him. It isn’t that he’s trying to reach out to them and failing; he’s not even trying. His campaign has become an extended Breitbart rant, aimed at his angriest supporters and meant to encourage little apart from resentment.

    If you were an undecided voter right now, would you watch Trump going on and on about how the election is rigged and black people are going to steal the vote, then say to yourself, “You know, Trump has a point. I think I’m going to vote for him after all”?

    Or consider that after bringing a group of women who have accused Bill Clinton of various kinds of sexual impropriety to the second debate, this time Trump is bringing Barack Obama’s half-brother, who supports Trump. The geniuses advising him apparently believe this is going to rattle Clinton, because…well, who the hell knows?
    posted by zombieflanders at 12:26 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Bill Clinton is not, in fact, running for President in 2016.
    posted by snuffleupagus at 12:27 PM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    I'm really worried. A couple of tracking polls aren't following sampling polls. It's really diverging and it normally doesn't really do that.

    Which tracking polls? Is the LA Times poll one of them? Because: How One 19-Year-Old Illinois Man Is Distorting National Polling Averages
    posted by showbiz_liz at 12:27 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    ROU_Xenophobe: Being old enough to remember as more or less an adult when Wolf Blitzer was cowering under his table in Baghdad, I would dispute whether they had ever gone high.

    Did Wolf Blitzer report from Baghdad? I remember Bernard Shaw and Peter Arnett reporting from Iraq. I think Bernard Shaw had to seek cover at one point because of the explosions and anti-air shells rocking Baghdad and blowing out their hotel room windows. I remember it being pretty good reporting at the time, since we hadn't seen very much live reporting from a war zone.
    posted by bluecore at 12:27 PM on October 19, 2016


    I'm 10000% sure this will earn me the ire of many people here and get me called all sorts of lovely names in MeMail, but you know what? It IS hard for me to believe rape accusations when they're made through Breitbart. Sorry if my inability to believe news from that organization without any corroborating reports via other sources makes me a monster in anyone's eyes.
    posted by palomar at 12:27 PM on October 19, 2016 [22 favorites]


    I know its just because of mail sort functionality, but every time I get an email that uses my name and is from Obama, I get a little excited.
    posted by Joey Michaels at 12:28 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    I'm really worried. A couple of tracking polls aren't following sampling polls. It's really diverging and it normally doesn't really do that.

    Talez, explain? My personal JCPL was at historic lows but reading your comment was enough to get my heart rate up.
    posted by lydhre at 12:28 PM on October 19, 2016


    >"Donald fazoozled around the stage for 90 minutes."

    ...a very apt portmanteau of 'bamboozle' and 'fizzle'.
    posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:28 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Ok, it's not illegal everywhere. Fortunately, my point wasn't "it's a bad idea because it's illegal" it's "it's illegal because it's a bad idea." So even if it's legal, the bad idea point stands.

    That's not proof they voted in a certain way. That's proof they filled out a ballot that way. In the time subsequent to filling it out they can take it to an election worker and say they made a mistake, the election official marks it 'spoilt' and hands them a new one. It's not a vote when it's filled out, it's a vote when it's submitted.

    Ah yes, people being coerced could just do that. Well that solves it. Except of course that they would be seen to be coming out and requesting a new ballot and that those voting by mail wouldn't have it so simple. Look, even if there's a rigamorole you could go through to vote a different way when you're being coerced, wouldn't be simpler and more right-thing-to-do and and worth the tiny restriction on people's behaviour, to not create the problem in the first place?
    posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:29 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Which tracking polls? Is the LA Times poll one of them? Because: How One 19-Year-Old Illinois Man Is Distorting National Polling Averages

    LAT is one but IBD/TIPP released theirs a couple of hours ago saying Trump up by 1 going into the debate.
    posted by Talez at 12:30 PM on October 19, 2016


    My first name is Chelsea. I imagine that whichever Hillary for America staffer added me to the mailing list had an extra giggle.
    posted by pxe2000 at 12:30 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    N.B. When Nate was doing his 2012 recap, IBD/TIPP was pretty much dead on with its polling.
    posted by Talez at 12:30 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Monica Lewinsky didn't do anything wrong. She was a kid and I treated her like garbage and then I lied about it all over the place over and over again. It ruined her life then and it's continued to hurt her for years and held her back from some of the good things that she wanted to do.

    He said a lot of this in his book "My Life." And Hillary talks about it a lot in "Living History." I don't know why they don't discuss it now. Bill has been clear that he views it as a moral failure and unfair to both his wife and Lewinsky, and Hillary has been quite candid about how much it hurt her.
    posted by maxsparber at 12:31 PM on October 19, 2016 [32 favorites]


    Of all the things that concern me about this election, my photo of a small part of my ballot is so tiny as to be not, you know, a concern. You'd be hard pressed to prove what I took a photo of was even a ballot at all. Coulda been something I whipped up on my home computer. Is my private happy.
    posted by thebrokedown at 12:32 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Except of course that they would be seen to be coming out and requesting a new ballot and that those voting by mail wouldn't have it so simple.

    If they're voting by mail why would they need to take pictures?

    wouldn't be simpler and more right-thing-to-do and and worth the tiny restriction on people's behaviour, to not create the problem in the first place?

    I mean, why don't we walk down the street in NYC and bang on a garbage can lid to keep the bears away?

    You do notice how much this "search for a solution without a visible problem" you're talking about philosophically tracks along with voter ID laws, right?
    posted by phearlez at 12:33 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Did Wolf Blitzer report from Baghdad?

    If it was Shaw, I will admit I am a bad person who should feel bad. I don't mind heaping even irrelevant and mostly undeserved abuse onto the idea of Wolf Blitzer, because damn, but if it was Shaw I will just take myself to the penalty box and feel shame for the appointed interval.
    posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:33 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    That IDB poll has Stein getting 6%...that seems, unlikely.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 12:34 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    LAT is one but IBD/TIPP released theirs a couple of hours ago saying Trump up by 1 going into the debate.

    In a 4-way matchup that has Johnson getting 8% and Stein getting 6%. In the 2-way it's Clinton +3.
    posted by zombieflanders at 12:35 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Demographic suicide.

    @NKingofDC
    Share of Hispanics with a positive view of the GOP, as per WSJ/NBC polls:

    8/12 33%
    12/14 24%
    9/15 24%
    9/16 21%
    Now 16%
    posted by chris24 at 12:37 PM on October 19, 2016 [10 favorites]


    IIRC, Stein isn't even on the ballots in all states.
    posted by drezdn at 12:37 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Where was IDB/TIPP in relation to all the other polls? Were they the most accurate in a group of polls that was mostly accurate on average? Or were they a major outlier, like they are here?

    If several polls pointed in this direction I would by more likely to be worried.
    posted by Tevin at 12:38 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    You do notice how much this "search for a solution without a visible problem" you're talking about philosophically tracks along with voter ID laws, right?

    I actually don't. You're going to have to spell it out. One prevents people from voting. One ensures that there can't be actual or appearance of voter coercion.

    And I don't think it's a solution without a visible problem. Like I said, the problem isn't "someone could steal the election" the problem is "democracy looks bad, when it doesn't protect a principle as sacred to democracy as the secret ballot" That problem really does exist. The secret ballot really is a principle sacred to democracy and it really is threatened by picture taking.
    posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:38 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Also this seems like a good time to remind people Stein is not actually on the ballot in North Carolina.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 12:38 PM on October 19, 2016


    They had to cut a joke from Veep because of Trump:
    I've never said this before. We had a scene where a minor character gets picked up on a DUI and he's being a little mouthy to a female police officer and we sort of had a run using [the P-word]. It was pretty funny and they basically threw it in the garbage. [Trump] is ruining comedy.

    One of the fun things about Selina Meyer is that while she is wonderfully sort of power hungry, and obviously she has great street fighting sense, she has surrounded herself with incompetence. And some of the fun of her existence is the incompetency at the job. Yet none of those things we do [on “Veep”] seem quite as incompetent as running for president and knowing that you had a video of you harassing women out there. What we used to do was sort of like funny incompetence, and this is just sort of sad, scary incompetence.
    posted by zachlipton at 12:38 PM on October 19, 2016 [15 favorites]


    The minute we have any inkling that the picture taking is a result of coercion rather than something totally 100% voluntary, we'll have something to talk about. In the meantime, it's just another technicality that can be used to disenfranchise perfectly eligible voters. There, I spelled it out.
    posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:40 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    BTW, if 538 is correct, there's a whole bunch of trackers:

    The Times-Picayune/Lucid (currently at C+10)
    Morning Consult (C+6)
    SurveyMonkey (C+6)
    CVOTER International (C+5)
    Ipsos (C+5)
    Google Consumer Surveys (C+5)
    Rasmussen (tie)
    posted by zombieflanders at 12:42 PM on October 19, 2016


    > She noted that a lot of the women speaking out today are asked why they haven’t come forward earlier, which “is exactly what I heard,” she said. “It was clear how I was treated in 1991 why I didn’t come forward before.”

    This is something that's vexed me for decades. I mean, I saw in the 1970s exactly what happened when women came forward. It is the most blatant imaginable hypocrisy to say "why haven’t they come forward earlier?" It's like there's a bunch of people in a house and another bunch of people outside, and every time a person comes out of the house somebody outside zaps them with a taser a few times and they writhe in pain and leave the scene as best they can, and the people outside taunt the people inside, saying "How come you're not coming out, huh? What are you, scaredy-cats?" Why isn't this obvious?
    posted by languagehat at 12:42 PM on October 19, 2016 [58 favorites]


    The minute we have any inkling that the picture taking is a result of coercion rather than something totally 100% voluntary, we'll have something to talk about. In the meantime, it's just another technicality that can be used to disenfranchise perfectly eligible voters.

    Sorry, I was unclear. I wasn't talking about disenfranchising anyone. People can vote. They just can't take pics of their ballots. I wasn't talking about taking away people's right to vote.
    posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:43 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Several states, including my own, are entirely vote-by-mail. If you were so inclined (let's say you were a corrupt employer), you could force someone to show up with their ballot, vote according to your own preferences, watch them seal and sign it, and put it in a mailbox. To my knowledge, and to the knowledge of the Washington Secretary of State, this has never happened.

    It's correct to weigh free speech vs negative outcomes. It's incorrect to put imaginary things on one side of the scale.

    If we want to talk about theoretical threats to an uncoerced vote, there are plenty of concrete ones with possible remedies that have bad consequences. For example, my grandmother-in-law was completely overcome with dementia, but her nursing home bussed her and everyone else to the voting booth along with a candidate guide telling them to vote for Republicans. Should we ban bussing people to the polls? Should we ban taking in a piece of paper to the voting booth? Should we have a pre-voting test to ensure only people of sound mind are voting?
    posted by 0xFCAF at 12:43 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    I actually don't. You're going to have to spell it out. One prevents people from voting. One ensures that there can be actual or appearance of voter coercion.

    Both positions advocate for restrictions around voting to prevent things that rarely, if ever, actually happen.

    Making it illegal to take a picture of your ballot changes nothing about this. People are blackmailed and/or paid to do illegal things all the time.

    Until there is evidence of people actually being coerced for their vote, you create more concern by talking about it than from any real evidence.
    posted by VTX at 12:44 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    My first name is Chelsea. I imagine that whichever Hillary for America staffer added me to the mailing list had an extra giggle.

    While phonebanking over the weekend, I called someone in Clinton, LA and the script for each call had a line like "I'm calling on behalf of Hillary for America for [insert town name]" and I was sad they didn't pick up so I could say Hillary for America for Clinton.
    posted by DynamiteToast at 12:44 PM on October 19, 2016 [14 favorites]


    Beyond that, I'd bet that money spent on GOTV efforts get you more votes per dollar than straight-up buying them would anyhow.
    posted by VTX at 12:45 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Bill has been clear that he views it as a moral failure and unfair to both his wife and Lewinsky, and Hillary has been quite candid about how much it hurt her.

    What I have seen coming from Bill has mostly been solely about the Lewinsky case - "It was wrong on me to cheat on my wife and lie about it and put the other woman in the spotlight." It hasn't been "I was wrong, as the President of the United States, to take advantage of the enormous power discrepancy and have sex with a woman who is my subordinate, in my employ. I should not have done that, and no man should do that. It wasn't wrong because I was married, or because I lied about it, it was wrong because I did it at all."

    The problem with Bill Clinton's sexual harassment is not that he cheated on Hillary and thus hurt the woman I genuinely believe he loves and is repentant for hurting her. The problem with the sexual harassment and potential assaults is that sexual harassment and assault itself is morally wrong, whether married or single, and that's something I haven't seen Bill Clinton admit - but would love to be proved wrong. If anyone has any clips or transcript or anything about him talking about that aspect, I would be very, very interested.
    posted by corb at 12:45 PM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    Project Include severs relationship with Y Combinator over Peter Thiel's Trump support [by Ellen Pao]

    Facebook still BFFs with Thiel (spoiler alert: paradox of tolerance bs)
    posted by melissasaurus at 12:46 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    The filibuster is a tool with a very specific use: to indicate that in times when Shit Is Fucked Up And Bullshit and the voting body is closely divided, and the narrow majority is refusing to even acknowledge the existence of the minority, that the minority has a way of saying yes, we will at least be heard and this is important enough that you must persuade at least some of us to continue.

    The Senate already privileges the minority in the Constitution by apportioning two to every state, regardless of population. That is by design, as has been discussed ad nauseam in this and other threads. Every person in Wyoming already gets 66 votes for every Californian. The filibuster is some invented bullshit that needs to die. There were more filibusters in 2011-2012 than from 1917-1976 combined. The filibuster has made it literally impossible to do anything in this country without a massive wave election in favor of one party or the other. There are still checks on their power - the House, the President, the Supreme Court. The House isn't particularly helpful as a check on Republican power in the Senate because it's been gerrymandered to hell (which, as has also been noted, will hopefully be fixed by Court ruling sometime towards the beginning of Clinton's first term). But just because the House is broken does not also mean that the Senate should go along for the ride.
    posted by one_bean at 12:48 PM on October 19, 2016 [10 favorites]


    Two people senior to me at work are in the hall outside my office, talking about the election.

    Shockingly, the one with the signed, framed jersey of Ben Rothelisberger hanging up in his office thinks that the charges of sexual assault aren't "real" or "important."
    posted by joyceanmachine at 12:50 PM on October 19, 2016 [28 favorites]


    Again, I think the problem being created is disrespect for an important democratic institution, not that widespread voter coercion is being created.

    On employers possibly requesting people to fill in ballots at work etc. I would have assumed that's already separately illegal. I know when I was in grad school my roommate voted by mail in Maryland and he mentioned that his ballot came with instructions saying it was illegal for anyone to watch him fill it out or to show his completed ballot to anyone.

    Insofar as voter coercion could happen, in theory, I don't think it would be an organized political party thing, I imagine it would be small-scale one-on-one sort of pressure: Abusive spouses dictating how their spouses should vote or stuff like that. And in most of those cases there probably aren't pictures involved anyway.

    The real danger here is the the principle of the secret ballot, which as I said upthread and has become even clearer, Americans don't seem too attached to, though I think it's a hugely important thing that needs protecting to prevent the discrediting of democracy.

    It's completely unclear to me how "Don't take a picture of your ballot" prevents anyone from voting. Is there anyone who can't vote unless they take a picture? Like they need to zoom in on their picture to see the ballot? Who exactly cannot vote without taking a picture?
    posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:51 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]




    The picture-taking kerfuffle has just taken over the donate/don't donate squirmish as my least-favorite derail of the election threads.
    posted by thebrokedown at 12:52 PM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    Is it possible to move on from "Ballot Selfies Will Destroy Democracy"?
    posted by Celsius1414 at 12:55 PM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    corb: The problem with the sexual harassment and potential assaults is that sexual harassment and assault itself is morally wrong, whether married or single, and that's something I haven't seen Bill Clinton admit - but would love to be proved wrong.

    In the 'I Sinned' speech, also linked above, he did specifically and publicly apologise to Lewinsky and her family, and not just to his wife.
    posted by Too-Ticky at 12:55 PM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    first-time young adult voters who are excited about sharing their experience on social media are being told that their votes are now invalid because they've posted a ballot selfie, and are being called stupid vain ruiners of democracy. this is tiresome.
    posted by poffin boffin at 12:58 PM on October 19, 2016 [14 favorites]


    N.B. When Nate was doing his 2012 recap, IBD/TIPP was pretty much dead on with its polling.

    Even if IBD/TIPP reported the exact outcome in 2012, that A) doesn't prove they will this year; and B) doesn't prove they did so in 2012 because they were doing things right. Every poll has random variation built into it; theirs may have simply randomly varied right onto the numerical outcome.

    Always the message is the same: Taking the average of many polls gets you a more accurate prediction. Doing so tells you HRC is far ahead at this point and very, very unlikely to lose.
    posted by argybarg at 12:58 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    I think we need to separate out Lewinsky from his other accusers, folks.

    He admitted to what happened with Lewinsky. Also, Lewinsky was much younger and there was a power imbalance, yes, but she was also by all accounts a consenting adult.

    The problem isn't the Lewinsky affair. There's not much left to argue there. The problem arises from Juanita Broaddrick, Paula Jones, and others, all of which Bill Clinton has denied.

    Although again, as has been stated a zillion times here, Bill Clinton isn't the one running for president, so perspective in Bill's alleged crimes vs. Trump's is important.
    posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:59 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Did Wolf Blitzer report from Baghdad? I remember Bernard Shaw and Peter Arnett reporting from Iraq.

    Which one was the Scud Stud?

    Also, why the fuck is that phrase still taking up space in my brain?
    posted by Atom Eyes at 12:59 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    I just sent off my mail-in ballot today. This was my first time voting not in person, which had me a little bummed--only because I get all kinds of warm fuzzy feelings of pride in fulfilling my civic duty at the polling place on Election Day. But you guys, check out the mailbox at the end of my block! Who knew dropping a giant envelope into a junky old steel box could be so heartwarming.
    posted by gueneverey at 12:59 PM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    Again, I think the problem being created is disrespect for an important democratic institution, not that widespread voter coercion is being created.

    The problem is that the disrespect you're worried about doesn't exist. You're creating it right now by talking about voter coercion is a problem.

    It's not a problem but it's very likely that anything done to address this "problem" WILL prevent people from voting.

    "Voter fraud" is only talked about in the national discourse because the white nationalist party wants to use it as an excuse to suppress votes. All this talk of the non-existent "voter coercion" does exactly the same thing.

    If you want to have this discussion, you first need to establish that voters are, right now, being coerced and it's changing election outcomes. Establish that this is an actual problem and then we talk about solutions.

    But for right now, the grand jury has thrown out your case.
    posted by VTX at 1:00 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]




    I'm still thinking about the needle-threading Hillary has had to do regarding her husband's shitty behavior, and a little mental exercise occurred to me. Try this out in your mind:

    Many people have criticized Hillary for "standing by her man" in the 90s, despite being aware of his repeated infidelity. Imagine, if you will, what would have happened to her personal ambitions if she had made the opposite "choice," and denounced and divorced her husband in the midst of the Lewinsky scandal.

    Yeah.
    posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 1:01 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    A new Emerson College poll has Evan McMullin up 6 points (!!) in Utah, based on polling from Oct 17-19, up big from the most recent poll which had him essentially tied with Trump. It really seems plausible that he is in a virtuous cycle of increased name recognition in Utah right now.
    posted by skewed at 1:01 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    him?
    posted by zachlipton at 1:01 PM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    If "winning" means everyone has to agree that the situation is hunky rosy Finding dory
    Fixed Found.

    cronkite died a loong loong time ago...
    And Dan Rather repeatedly tripped over his own feet trying to fill his shoes.
    It's worth noting that tonight's debate modifier moderator is the son of also-CBS-News-legend Mike Wallace, who is another late great who has been spinning in his grave for some time.
    A halfway-decent listicle about Chris Wallace.
    posted by oneswellfoop at 1:01 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    I know there are extremely good reasons why this is impossible, but I am just aching to know what the vote counts in early voting look like so far. I wish I could see a running total somewhere. Again, I know that I can't have this and that it would be bad if I could, but I neeeeeed it!

    Your wish is my command. Sorta. I don't know what their methodology is, and as far as I can tell, this is just party affiliation of registered voters not a vote tabulation, and it's only one state. But, well, it has implications.
    posted by Kid Charlemagne at 1:03 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Is it possible to move on from "Ballot Selfies Will Destroy Democracy"?

    Not until Wordshore takes a selfie on the combine
    posted by numaner at 1:03 PM on October 19, 2016 [10 favorites]


    Protip: I post the live links early in the Election Logistics thread, since coverage starts early on many of them.
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:03 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Is it possible to move on from "Ballot Selfies Will Destroy Democracy"?

    first-time young adult voters who are excited about sharing their experience on social media are being told that their votes are now invalid because they've posted a ballot selfie, and are being called stupid vain ruiners of democracy.


    This is some serious bad-faith reading, and "This is a derail except I want to get in one more shot" is disingenuous as well.
    posted by Etrigan at 1:04 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Other Donald Trump surprise debate guests:
    • That kid that she punched over the rabbits
    • An Arkansas butcher who killed a baby cow on her orders
    • The exhumed skull of General Patton with a frowny-face drawn on
    • Goatee Hilary Clinton from the Mirror Universe
    • Jack Hanna of the Columbus Zoo
    • Lindsay Buckingham (time permitting)
    posted by PlusDistance at 1:05 PM on October 19, 2016 [42 favorites]


    Scud Stud = Arthur Kent
    posted by soelo at 1:05 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    More filing irregularities for the Trump Foundation:
    “We’re past the point where a reasonable person could believe this is just a never-ending series of once in a lifetime errors,” said CREW Communications Director Jordan Libowitz. “This may not be anything nefarious, but if it isn’t, that would mean that the Trump operation is completely inept when it comes to running the Trump Foundation.”
    posted by melissasaurus at 1:06 PM on October 19, 2016 [13 favorites]


    I just sent off my mail-in ballot today.

    pics or it didn't happen
    posted by Atom Eyes at 1:06 PM on October 19, 2016 [43 favorites]


    The Senate already privileges the minority in the Constitution by apportioning two to every state, regardless of population. That is by design, as has been discussed ad nauseam in this and other threads. Every person in Wyoming already gets 66 votes for every Californian.

    That's not the minority of which I was speaking, which is the minority party at any given time in the Senate. Which is currently the Democrats, making the Big Mostly Empty States like Wyoming doubly powerful in that context.

    Seriously, this isn't rocket science. The Garland affair is disgusting, and is just one example of Republican judicial obstruction out of control. But neither party wants to go to a straight majority vote on everything in the Senate and there are sound reasons for that reluctance.
    posted by delfin at 1:06 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    This is some serious bad-faith reading, and "This is a derail except I want to get in one more shot" is disingenuous as well.

    It's not disingenuous at all -- I sincerely mean that the idea is bunk and would sincerely prefer to move on.
    posted by Celsius1414 at 1:06 PM on October 19, 2016


    I feel queasy about her relationship with a rapist/harasser, and the fact that in order to get through the debate/political stuff, she is going to have to minimize it.

    I have problems with Bill too and won't defend or minimize his issues, but on a purely human relationship level, there is a good reason you can't be compelled to testify against your spouse in court in many states. In my personal, direct experience, a lot of people won't ever take a side against their SO, partner or spouse, no matter what. I can't hold it against Hillary Clinton if she goes down fighting for her husband, even if he murdered someone. It's pretty basic human nature.
    posted by krinklyfig at 1:07 PM on October 19, 2016 [19 favorites]


    Democrats by rage! That is just a quick misreading of some bar graph.

    I went outside, my neighbor drove up. He showed me his mail in ballot. I was on the way to the Post Office to see if mine had arrived. He told me that he felt the Democratic Party was just better, and he wanted to hurry up and vote for Hillary, as that was all he could do, aside from the $3,500. he donated to help her win. I just told him thanks and how proud I am that he did this.

    So I voted! Hooray! I think I left my sticker still stuck to the back of my ballot. Boo! Hoo!
    posted by Oyéah at 1:09 PM on October 19, 2016 [11 favorites]


    Imagine, if you will, what would have happened to her personal ambitions if she had made the opposite "choice," and denounced and divorced her husband in the midst of the Lewinsky scandal?
    Yep, she would've ended up divorced from the entire Democratic Party. But still, I spent most of the years since Hillary was elected to the Senate, eagerly awaiting news that she'd dumped Bill. The more recent news that her close advisor Huma Abedin had given up on her horndog husband Anthony Weiner has renewed my hope on that account.
    posted by oneswellfoop at 1:09 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    He said a lot of this in his book "My Life." And Hillary talks about it a lot in "Living History."
    That's nice for him, but for all the good it does me it's no different than if he'd whispered it into a hollow log. The only living politician whose books I'm prepared to shell out for is Al Franken. (Well, okay, I bought Obama's. They were okay, too. But he's no Al Franken.) And why should HRC have to say anydamnthing about any damn bit of it?

    We all know how eloquent he is. The problem is not that he hasn't apologized but that he hasn't sacrificed, whereas everyone else involved has had to make huge sacrifices. And now HRC has to drag him along with her on the already arduous enough road to the White House. I suppose it would've looked bad because of the sanctity of American wifedom or whateverthehell, if she'd kicked him to the curb when she went to NY, but he could've done the decent thing and stepped down, himself.

    [on preview: squirmish! new favorite word.]
    posted by Don Pepino at 1:10 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    The problem with Bill Clinton's sexual harassment is not that he cheated on Hillary and thus hurt the woman I genuinely believe he loves and is repentant for hurting her. The problem with the sexual harassment and potential assaults is that sexual harassment and assault itself is morally wrong, whether married or single, and that's something I haven't seen Bill Clinton admit - but would love to be proved wrong.

    Even in this massive thread that doesn't need any extra words, I feel that this is an important point that deserves emphasis.

    I have a lot -- a LOT -- of complicated feelings about Bill Clinton and his behavior towards women. I believe the women who say he harassed and assaulted them. I do feel, genuinely, like his behavior towards women is less foul than Trump's, but that's based on a lot of squishy emotional reasoning that may be heavily biased by the fact that I prefer his politics to Trump's. I am pretty sure he's changed his ways, if not his desires, if only because I am pretty sure that this shitshow of an election would have uncovered evidence otherwise if it exists.

    But damn, I wish he would stand in front of the country and say "I spent the first half of my life being gross and exploitative with women, because I wanted to and I believed that made it OK. I chose to ignore the tremendous imbalance of power that my personal charisma and my political office brought to every interaction, and I fooled myself into believing that everyone I interacted with was as happy about my those choices as I was. In doing so, I hurt not just my wife, and not even just the women whose names you all know because of my choices, but ALL women. Women should be able to do their jobs, whether in public service or not, without having to constantly spend their energy dispelling powerful men's notions that they are sexually available. Those notions are widespread, and they amount to an extra tax on women's time and resources, and I made it worse -- much worse. It is the great regret of my life."
    posted by KathrynT at 1:10 PM on October 19, 2016 [64 favorites]


    I'm not too surprised about McMullin at this point since Utah had Johnson polling pretty high, so I had to imagine Egg stealing some of both his and Trump's support since Johnson could only be doing that well as an alternative option. Hillary or Egg winning the state is okay by me. Oh, I suspect he might get some show in Idaho too, but not win the state or anything, maybe enough to be somewhat surprising though.
    posted by gusottertrout at 1:11 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]




    For all that Kasich is a member of the "drown the gov't in a bathtub" party, the man is a career politician - he even had a one-on-one with Nixon while he was a College Young Republican. I think he's deeply personally insulted that an orange buffoon is making a mockery of a system he's devoted his entire life to, and I think he really is defending the electoral process.

    That's a good point, but on the other hand, the "drown the gov't in a bathtub" crowd also make a mockery of the system Kasich has devoted his entire life to, and that I value. I am personally insulted by the pretense that Republicans can slash taxes and benefits -- again -- without causing real harm -- more real harm -- to many citizens, and it's high time that hogwash got called out for what it is.

    (Even worse is the fact that Republicans are never specific about what they'll cut, or how they'll replace Obamacare, they just spout enthusiastic generalities and magic asterisks, and the so-called "liberal media" lets them get away with it, not only because they don't want to appear partisan by asking for facts and figures, but also because policy is boring.)
    posted by Gelatin at 1:11 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    In Utah, we just got our mail in ballots today. So voting has just begun. I would not be a believer about any Utah races just now.
    posted by Oyéah at 1:12 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    I don't know why they don't discuss it now.

    Really? Because they are up against utterly ruthless opponents who will seize upon any out-of-context phrase, stumble, hesitation or awkward phrasing to make either of the Clintons look 1000x worse than whatever it is they are attempting to apologize or discuss openly. And this has been going on for a really long time now, which is why the Clintons act in a way that seems crazily paranoid and over-secretive to those of us living normal lives not under the perpetual glare of the GOP Eye of Sauron.
    posted by aught at 1:14 PM on October 19, 2016 [47 favorites]


    Would Progressive Economics Win Over Trump’s White Working Class Voters?

    In response to this piece, The Week's Ryan L. Cooper on his personal blog: "The Political Economy of Trumpism"
    Mike Konczal has a pretty good post discussing whether or not left-wing economic policy might win over white working-class Trump voters in the future. He discusses four broad policy directions: "a more redistributive state, a more aggressive state intervention in the economy, a weakening of the centrality of waged labor, and a broadening, service-based form of worker activism," and argues that all of these will repulse white conservatives even more from the left.

    Konzcal aptly notes that the major engines of conservative politics are highly moralized notions about desert (to wit: poor people, especially minority ones, deserve their fate) and a love of coercive hierarchy as such, the most important of which is the racial hierarchy with its roots in antebellum slavery. Therefore, those four policies, which involve new transfers and government action to benefit the disproportionately black and brown bottom of the income distribution, and union organizing among increasingly black, brown, and female service workers, will inspire snarling outrage among Trump-inclined white voters.

    This is a good excuse to get down something I've wanted to outline for awhile: my napkin sketch theory of Trump. Let me start with that.
    [...]
    There are two basic paths from [the destruction of welfare states by Republican governments]: One is for voters to turn out Republicans made hideously unpopular by their destructive policy and elect Democrats who can undo the damage (Louisiana). The other is the basic fascist formula: a truly vicious conservatism translated into a Keynesian economic ideology — basically, full employment plus the secret police. Trump, with his demagogue's ear for what people want to hear, has stumbled close to this formula — but because he is a complete ignoramus about all policy and theory, he can't make the full leap to Keynesianism.

    All this means is that to a very great extent I think it will be completely impossible to win over Trump supporters to actually vote for Democrats. However, more left-wing policy might go a considerable distance towards defusing Trumpism and nudging Republicans to vote for less deranged candidates.
    posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:17 PM on October 19, 2016 [10 favorites]


    Tierney Sneed: Local TX GOP Recruits Poll Watchers With Claim Of 'Voter Fraud' In Dem Areas
    In response to the GOP email, J. Gerald Hebert, the director of the voting rights and redistricting project at the non-partisan, non-profit group, the Campaign Legal Center, sent a voter discrimination complaint to the Department of Justice on Friday calling for federal election monitors.

    "Virtually every precinct in Tarrant County that is 'Democrat-controlled' is a majority-minority precinct," Hebert's complaint noted.

    "The vote suppression efforts being made are cloaked in partisan rhetoric but are clearly targeted at Hispanic and African American voters in Tarrant County," the letter said, while noting other "inflammatory" language in the email, like "..buy, steal, and cheat their way to victory...”
    [...]
    The Tarrant County GOP's email comes as Donald Trump has urged his supporters in stump speeches to act as vigilante poll watchers of sorts, prompting concerns that what will result is voter intimidation.

    The Texas voter ID requirement was passed in 2011 and has been struck down by multiple courts. Most recently, the full 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, perhaps the most conservative panel of judges in the country, ruled the law was discriminatory in its effect. As part of the resolution of that case, the voter ID requirement was softened to allow non-ID holding voters to vote using a regular ballot if they present one of several supporting forms of ID–like a utility bill or bank statement–and sign an affidavit attesting that they faced a reasonable impediment in obtaining the required ID to vote.
    This is the same racist bullshit Wake County is trying to pull. This isn't a sincere effort to recruit level-headed poll watchers, it's a dogwhistle-laden screed designed to get gun-toting bigots to try and suppress minority voting. And like NC, Texas' voting laws are basically Jim Crow 2.0, thanks to the oh-so-wise and not at all racist decisions behind Shelby v. Holder.
    posted by zombieflanders at 1:19 PM on October 19, 2016 [20 favorites]


    It really seems plausible that he is in a virtuous cycle of increased name recognition in Utah right now.

    In the poll that really launched his national name recognition, the first one where he cracked 20% and was almost tied with Clinton and Trump, over 50% of Utahns hadn't even heard of him. But they sure as hell heard about him afterwards. Of those who had heard of him, he had about 80% favorability. Given all that, I'd have been surprised if he didn't pick up more voters, at least in polls if not in the general election.

    If you're a conservative living in Utah, and you (statistically) really fucking hate Donald Trump, and you see that poll (and other recent polls which show McMullin doing even better), you're pretty likely to think "you know what? My state - MY state, which basically never matters in presidential elections - could be the first crack in the dam of a Republican Party that doesn't represent us anymore. We can show the whole GOP that their actions have consequences." That's a hella exciting prospect for them.
    posted by showbiz_liz at 1:21 PM on October 19, 2016 [11 favorites]


    which is why the Clintons act in a way that seems crazily paranoid and over-secretive to those of us living normal lives not under the perpetual glare of the GOP Eye of Sauron.
    Looking for a source for one of my favorite unattributed quotes "It's not paranoia if they're really out to get you." But Terry Pratchett has a great variation: "Paranoids only think everyone is out to get them. Wizards know it.” Here's to the Wizards.
    posted by oneswellfoop at 1:22 PM on October 19, 2016 [13 favorites]


    Mod note: Couple comments removed, let's indeed let this ballot-photo thing drop at this point.
    posted by cortex (staff) at 1:23 PM on October 19, 2016 [10 favorites]


    I feel upset about the allegations of Bill Clinton's assaults the way I do about Brock Turner's or a guy I know who groped someone or any other sexual assailant. I'm displeased and uncomfortable with Bill, NOT Hillary. And I dislike the fact that he'll be living in our White House just the way I would if Bush or Obama had had a son, brother, or father living alongside them in the White House who'd been repeatedly accused of sexual assault. It has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton, her personal or professional choices, or my choice to vote for her. But yeah, it deeply disgusts me.

    There have been people sharing deeply felt and nuanced takes on this question, explicitly stating they are not judging Hillary Clinton or trying to hold her accountable for Bill's actions, and that it's not a factor in their vote. Painting those thoughtful comments as "Hillary can't win" is itself conflating Bill and Hillary, because it implies judging Bill means judging Hillary too. You don't have to think badly of Bill, but don't act like it's sexist or disingenuous for many of us to do so.
    posted by sallybrown at 1:23 PM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    Kellyanne Conway would like to clarify that Trump does not actually want to "defeat Islam:"
    Blaming "sleep deprivation" for her misstatement, Conway clarified in an email to The Daily Beast that she was referring to Trump’s “5-point plan to defeat radical Islamic terrorism.” She added: “He delivered a speech on it months ago and has discussed it many times since. All of this is in the context of who does and does not present specific solutions and plans publicly, even if they are not covered widely. Folks are free to reject or disagree with the plans but at least they can examine and assess them.”
    Sleep deprivation, huh? Something's been keeping you up at night, Kellyanne? And really, you guys are running for President of the United States. "I'm so tired I just about started a holy war" is really not a good look.
    posted by zachlipton at 1:24 PM on October 19, 2016 [41 favorites]


    Which one was the Scud Stud?

    That was Arthur Kent, but I don't think he worked for CNN. Maybe NBC?
    posted by aught at 1:24 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Does Hillary's campaign have a guide for what the Trump poll intimidators can legally do in each state? I started doing some research for PA but if they have a handy sheet prepared by a legal team with their support line at the bottom I will print and distribute them to my friends here in Philly.
    posted by cmfletcher at 1:27 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Sleep deprivation, huh? Something's been keeping you up at night, Kellyanne? And really, you guys are running for President of the United States. "I'm so tired I just about started a holy war" is really not a good look.

    Has someone said to her "hey, remember how you guys keep asking why HRC and Obama "won't say radical Islam?" Guess you know now, huh dummy?"

    They can leave off the dummy bit, I'll know it's there...
    posted by phearlez at 1:30 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    perhaps she should stay home and rest like hillary?
    posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 1:34 PM on October 19, 2016 [14 favorites]


    Susan Collins operates in lockstep with the party despite being a pro-choice liberal R sent from New England.

    I often wonder why the Democrats don't point out that a vote for Susan Collins -- or any Republican -- is effectively a vote for one of the barking mad Tea party types, because they all do vote in lockstep.
    posted by Gelatin at 1:34 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Leslie Millwee, a former reporter for local Arkansas TV station KLMN-TV, has accused former president Bill Clinton of sexually assaulting her three times in 1980, while Clinton was the governor of Arkansas, Breitbart News reports.

    Update: She'll be at the debate too.

    Next election, debate guests need to be limited to immediate family only.
    posted by zachlipton at 1:34 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    I'm teaching a class tonight when the exam is happening and so won't get to see it! Yay!
    posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:34 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I feel pretty sure I know the answer, but this hasn't happened in other election years' debates, has it? I don't recall, oh, John Kerry inviting the guy who said he was Bush's coke dealer in Texas.
    posted by thelonius at 1:36 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Jake Tapper is pretty incredulous at Jason Miller right now.
    posted by Talez at 1:37 PM on October 19, 2016


    Which one was the Scud Stud?

    That was Arthur Kent, but I don't think he worked for CNN. Maybe NBC?


    Yes, he was with NBC then.
    posted by Preserver at 1:38 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Clinton is not going to even recognize any of these people, they're not going to rattle her with random women she's never met and Obama's brother she probably couldn't pick out of a line up.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 1:38 PM on October 19, 2016


    As you ponder Trump's choice of debate guests, consider: Trump in 2008: Hillary Clinton will 'go down at a minimum as a great senator':
    Asked [in a 2008 interview] about Hillary Clinton's legacy, Trump said, "Well, I think her history is far from being over. I'd like to answer that question in another 15 years from now. I think she is going to go down at a minimum as a great senator. I think she is a great wife to a president. And I think Bill Clinton was a great president."

    "You know you look at the country then," he continued. "The economy was doing great. Look at what happened during the Clinton years. I mean, we had no war, the economy was doing great, everybody was happy. A lot of people hated him because they were jealous as hell. You know people get jealous and they hate you."

    While Trump and Clinton will go head-to-head in the final debate Wednesday night, he had nothing but nice things to say about her and Bill Clinton eight years ago.
    "Bill Clinton was a great president. Hillary Clinton is a great woman and a good woman," he said in the interview.
    Full transcript of the 2008 NY1 interview.
    posted by zachlipton at 1:38 PM on October 19, 2016 [14 favorites]


    Night cutting with what appears to be a five billion watt bar lamp. Dusty, warm, bounxy. No suicidal rabbits running into the blades today. Occasionally I imagine I am driving around and around Trump Tower in the biggest and noisiest taco truck ever.
    posted by Wordshore at 1:39 PM on October 19, 2016 [44 favorites]


    Is there going to be a new thread for tonight?
    posted by Windigo at 1:40 PM on October 19, 2016




    I love your dispatches, Wordshore!
    posted by sallybrown at 1:41 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    I forgot to mention, I got my ballot, and went straight for the best taco place in town, then I voted, Priorities!
    posted by Oyéah at 1:41 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    While Trump and Clinton will go head-to-head in the final debate Wednesday night, he had nothing but nice things to say about her and Bill Clinton eight years ago.

    Oh, he said all that when he was a Democrat so it doesn't count!
    posted by aught at 1:42 PM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    Not to excuse his behavior but to draw a contrast. Bill and Donald have been powerful men their whole lives. In their past are stories of mistreatment of women which demonstrate that they were peices of shit. Bill seems to have gotten the message and cleaned up his act. Donald Trump hasn't. Trump is running for President. Bill is trying to help elect the first woman President.
    posted by humanfont at 1:43 PM on October 19, 2016 [29 favorites]


    I often wonder why the Democrats don't point out that a vote for Susan Collins -- or any Republican -- is effectively a vote for one of the barking mad Tea party types, because they all do vote in lockstep.

    Because Collins doesn't always vote lockstep? She opposed the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act, supports same-sex marriage, tried to bring Republicans onto some sort of minimum wage reform, voted for background checks for gun purchases, and has been known to cross party lines on other issues at irregular intervals. It's damning with faint praise to say "Collins isn't as much of a full-blown wackaloon as her colleagues," but consider her damned thusly.

    The other factor is that she has huge approval ratings and thus beating her means beating her at her own game of relative centrism, not painting what she does as out-of-touch radicalism.
    posted by delfin at 1:44 PM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Is there going to be a new thread for tonight?

    I believe so, probably coming online much closer to the actual debate.
    posted by ZeusHumms at 1:45 PM on October 19, 2016


    I haven't found any pictures of the setup for tonight yet, but by all accounts it's the same as the first debate, which means, yet again, there is a bunch of drama about who Trump is going to bring to sit in the audience when the audience is not actually going to be visible from the debate stage due to stage lighting once the debate starts. What a fucking joke this whole thing has become, really.
    posted by feloniousmonk at 1:45 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Is there going to be a new thread for tonight?

    Already written. Will post about a half hour before the debate, per mod request.
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:46 PM on October 19, 2016 [18 favorites]


    Next election, debate guests need to be limited to immediate family only.

    At the very least.
    How about no guests? That would be my preference at this point. This whole PsychOp invitation thing is so stupid and so irrelevant. I'd rather have no invites at all at this point.
    posted by Golem XIV at 1:47 PM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    which means, yet again, there is a bunch of drama about who Trump is going to bring to sit in the audience when the audience is not actually going to be visible from the debate stage

    I don't really understand why there's even an audience at all. Since they're supposed to stay silent. I'd rather Trump not have one, because he gets very flustered without one - he only knows how to function based on positive feedback.
    posted by dnash at 1:48 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    I have a lot of thoughts about the latest Okeefe videos and subsequent fallout, but I'll wait thill the #nextthread where my phone won't break so hard.
    posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:50 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    yet again, there is a bunch of drama about who Trump is going to bring to sit in the audience

    You know, this would be a perfect evening for Ashley Todd to show up and carve another letter in her face.
    posted by octobersurprise at 1:50 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    I'm in favor of no audience at all for the debates. Not unless they're in the "town hall" format. And if it's a "town hall," then it should only be those guests invited for the purpose of asking questions. The hooting, hollering, and applauding is cheap and typically distracts from critical thought about the candidates' answers.

    Trump's "Because you'd be in jail" crack in the last debate was portrayed as a zinger because it got cheers, but without a studio audience to play to I imagine many more people would've recognized it for the ugly thing it was.
    posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:51 PM on October 19, 2016 [18 favorites]


    I somehow forgot about the audience at the town hall and freaked out when people cheered for Trump saying HRC should go to jail. I thought the cheers were coming from undecided Town Hall participants.
    posted by zutalors! at 1:52 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    New Emerson College poll of 700 likely voters in Utah, conducted Oct. 17–19:
    • Johnson 5%
    • Clinton 24%
    • Trump 27%
    • McMullin 31%
    posted by mbrubeck at 1:53 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    National Conference of State Legislators has a good rundown of the tossups at the state level:
    State legislative elections are as important as ever. On Election Day, voters will determine the winners of 5,917 seats in 86 chambers in 44 states. That’s more than 80 percent of the total 7,383 legislative seats nationwide.

    Some chambers with large majorities are simply beyond the reach of the minority party this year. Still, several of this year’s legislative races will be competitive. In addition to the Kentucky House, another 17 legislative chambers—11 senates and six houses—are close enough in numbers to qualify as true battlegrounds.

    Senate races in Colorado, Iowa, Nevada, New York, Washington and West Virginia are being watched closely, as half the seats are up for election and a slim one- or two-seat difference exists in all of them.

    In five other states—Arizona, Maine, New Hampshire, New Mexico and Wisconsin—GOP senate majorities are bigger but still vulnerable. In Arizona, Republicans are trying to hold on to a three-seat lead, while in New Mexico the Democrats are trying to do the same thing.

    Democrats have slim leads to defend in the Colorado, Kentucky and Washington house chambers.

    Republicans are defending majorities in Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire and New Mexico, where polls show Clinton currently leading the race for the White House.
    posted by melissasaurus at 1:54 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Bill seems to have gotten the message and cleaned up his act.

    references? colin powell didn't seem to think so.
    posted by andrewcooke at 1:56 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    You know, this would be a perfect evening for Ashley Todd to show up and carve another letter in her face.

    This time, with the "H" sideways...
    posted by the return of the thin white sock at 1:56 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    It's like there's a bunch of people in a house and another bunch of people outside, and every time a person comes out of the house somebody outside zaps them with a taser a few times and they writhe in pain and leave the scene as best they can, and the people outside taunt the people inside, saying "How come you're not coming out, huh? What are you, scaredy-cats?" Why isn't this obvious?

    Sadly, in the minds of many it's a different analogy altogether: in the minds of many, it's more like, there's a gabillioinaire who will give away free money to anyone who says "I was assaulted!" and the gabillionaire will also pay off the courts so that you win your case, and he will also pay a bunch of women to stand around you and say "we believe her" so you don't have to worry about it. that stuff about the emotional hardship of the court trial simply doesn't register.
    posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:56 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Sure, because Colin Powell is such an honest, upstanding guy. Let's definitely treat his snide little quip as ironclad testimony of wrongdoing.
    posted by palomar at 1:58 PM on October 19, 2016 [14 favorites]


    New Emerson College poll of 700 likely voters in Utah, conducted Oct. 17–19:

    One more plea to please use the search function before posting new links in a 4000 comment thread. Top right. Copy and paste the link, ctrl+F is not sufficient.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 1:58 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    references? colin powell didn't seem to think so.

    Yeah, and why wouldn't we trust him?
    posted by tonycpsu at 1:58 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    The other factor is that she has huge approval ratings and thus beating her means beating her at her own game of relative centrism

    In Maine it's also a common belief that she wields a disportionate amount of power for our state than another senator would, exactly because of that centrism. She's courted by both parties.

    Plus she's a pretty awesome Senator and has been doing the job for nearly 20 years. She's not going away until she decides to retire.
    posted by mayonnaises at 1:59 PM on October 19, 2016


    I have a lot of thoughts about the latest Okeefe videos and subsequent fallout, but I'll wait thill the #nextthread where my phone won't break so hard.

    Maybe get them out of the way now? Seems a shame to dirty up a nice new clean election thread.
    posted by Scoop at 1:59 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    You know, this would be a perfect evening for Ashley Todd to show up and carve another letter in her face.

    This was my one brief shining moment of relevance in whatever online community I was in at the time because I live real close to the street corner she said that happened on and could report to all who would listen that NO WAY IN THIS UNIVERSE would someone get their face carved up on that corner at 8 PM at night without like 60 people seeing it. That girl was just the worst liar.
    posted by soren_lorensen at 2:00 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Jonah Peretti (‏@peretti; founder/CEO Buzzfeed)
    Surprised Ivanka would be shocked by lewd language. I met her once & she casually said: "I've never seen a mulatto cock, but I'd like to!"

    (Journalist/media twitter is freaking out right now as a result of this tweet)
    posted by melissasaurus at 2:00 PM on October 19, 2016 [31 favorites]


    Maybe get them out of the way now? Seems a shame to dirty up a nice new clean election thread.

    Er, have you seen what new election threads look like?
    posted by tonycpsu at 2:01 PM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Ivanka can't use Google?
    posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:03 PM on October 19, 2016 [19 favorites]


    I won over a vote for Evan McMullin! I have a friend who is a New Hampshire republican who is not voting for Trump. He was complaining to me this weekend over beers that it was a shame that Gary Johnson was such a dope, so I said you should look into this egg mcmuffin guy. He thought it was a Deez Nuts style joke, but he looked into him and decided that writing in McMullin was his best option. So there's one vote for all day breakfast in New Hampshire.
    posted by peeedro at 2:04 PM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    I met Ivanka Trump once and you'll never believe what happened next.

    What is this? I mean. What?
    posted by zachlipton at 2:05 PM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Oh this is good:
    Trump skipped his walk-through at the debate hall, per the campaign. Didn't go. Still at his hotel. "His debate team is taking care of it."
    After the first debate, the CPD let slip that Trump didn't bother to do his sound check, which ensured his "the mic was defective" argument was that much less persuasive.
    posted by zachlipton at 2:09 PM on October 19, 2016 [14 favorites]


    >(Journalist/media twitter is freaking out right now as a result of this tweet)

    The reaction gifs under that tweet are fucking GOLD.
    posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:09 PM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    I guess I must note that I have mailed in my California Absentee Ballot, with zero votes for anybody representing the American Independent Party, all 18 state referendi (plural of referendum? well, it should be) and one county referendum because San Luis Obispo County is Proud to Be SLO.
    posted by oneswellfoop at 2:10 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    I have to say that Ivanka Trump thing, if true, shocks me in a way that nothing else has this election. I...have never heard anyone say "m******" and thought that people just....didn't now.
    posted by Frowner at 2:10 PM on October 19, 2016 [13 favorites]


    Asked [in a 2008 interview] about Hillary Clinton's legacy, Trump said, "[...] I think she is going to go down at a minimum as a great senator. I think she is a great wife to a president. And I think Bill Clinton was a great president."

    "You know you look at the country then," he continued. "The economy was doing great. Look at what happened during the Clinton years. I mean, we had no war, the economy was doing great, everybody was happy. A lot of people hated him because they were jealous as hell. You know people get jealous and they hate you."
    1 million points to the sound tech who slips this interview audio into the playlist at the next Trump rally. (10 million if the video suddenly plays behind him while he's trying to give a speech.)
    posted by nobody at 2:11 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Wow, that sentence singlehandedly is offensive to the far right (race mixing), religious conservatives, people who don't think the word 'mulatto' is appropriate for 2016... I mean, outside of maybe a right-wing gay boor [hi, Milo! Hi, Thiel!]... who talks like this

    I have to say that Ivanka Trump thing, if true, shocks me in a way that nothing else has this election. I...have never heard anyone say "m******" and thought that people just....didn't now.

    Here's the thing. She didn't grow up here and I could be wrong, but I assume she didn't learn that word in school.

    Someone taught her that as an adult, and told her that it was okay to say it.

    The reaction gifs under that tweet are fucking GOLD.

    Yes they are. Internet has significantly upped its w_t_f.gif game in 2016.
    posted by tivalasvegas at 2:13 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]




    Maybe she just really liked Nirvana.
    posted by delfin at 2:15 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    references? colin powell didn't seem to think so.
    The dicking bimbos comment referred to a tell all Secret Service book that has been discounted as a reliable source. As I am sure you know, proving that Bill has been faithful since 1997 is impossible to do.
    posted by xyzzy at 2:15 PM on October 19, 2016


    Are you saying someone would lie? On the INTERNET?
    posted by Justinian at 2:17 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    tivalasvegas: She didn't grow up here

    Ivanka? I thought she was born and raised in the US.
    posted by Too-Ticky at 2:18 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I very seriously doubt the Ivanka thing is true.

    Which makes me think that maybe a debate about the Ivanka thing could be postponed.
    posted by Namlit at 2:18 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I just drove by an electronic billboard that said "PAYCHECKS NOT WELFARE CHECKS TRUMP/PENCE" and I could barely roll my eyes hard enough, but then the next message that popped up was HAIL ZOMBO and I seriously almost drove off the fucking road I was laughing so hard and now people are looking at me funny in a rest stop parking lot.
    posted by Etrigan at 2:18 PM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]




    > "1 million points to the sound tech who slips this interview audio into the playlist at the next Trump rally."

    It just occurred to me that Batman Returns got it *so* wrong. It apparently would actually have gone something like:

    Trumpguin audio played through the speakers: "I've played this stinking country like a harp from hell!"
    Trumpguin Rally Crowd: *EXPLODES INTO CHEERS*
    posted by kyrademon at 2:19 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Internet has significantly upped its w_t_f.gif game in 2016

    What does not kill us makes us danker.
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:19 PM on October 19, 2016 [28 favorites]


    That is an oddly specific word that's in character with the Trump family's documented views on racial hierarchy.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 2:20 PM on October 19, 2016 [14 favorites]


    Anyone needing to calm down a little should look at http://election.princeton.edu/.
    The odds for HRC are at an all time high AFAIK.
    (Posted&Edited in lynx)
    posted by jclarkin at 2:21 PM on October 19, 2016


    Speaking of the Secret Service, I wonder if Hilldawg is keeping the code name "Evergreen." I always liked it.
    posted by xyzzy at 2:21 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    It could be revealed that every year for Halloween Ivanka goes as Ilsa She-Wolf of the SS and people would still be like "Well, she can't help it"
    posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:21 PM on October 19, 2016 [11 favorites]


    Gentle reminder for the people in these threads who can't keep them straight:

    IVANA is the ex-wife.

    IVANKA is the daughter.
    posted by palomar at 2:22 PM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    IVANA is the ex-wife.

    IVANKA is the daughter.


    And Rosebud was his sled.
    posted by Joey Michaels at 2:23 PM on October 19, 2016 [18 favorites]


    FYI that Colin Powell thing is a lie. Read the email in context he was joking about the New York Posts coverage. Please read this andrewcooke and stop repeating this garbage.
    posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:23 PM on October 19, 2016 [14 favorites]


    I'm so envious of everyone who gets to vote early. My state doesn't have no-reason absentee voting, so I've been going to the sample ballot page and caressing the Clinton/Kaine oval with my mouse pointer.
    posted by zeptoweasel at 2:25 PM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    And Bingo was his name-o
    posted by kirkaracha at 2:26 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    So I'm subbing in a Seattle high school today. It's movie day (half the class is out for PSAT), so I can sit here and follow this MeFi thread. But I gotta say: the analysis of the second debate in the high school newspaper is way more clear-eyed and reflective than basically any mainstream media outlet reaction I've read.
    posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:26 PM on October 19, 2016 [10 favorites]


    I can imagine Trump going through every room of his three-story penthouse with a box of industrial strength Lysol and cleaning equipment.

    "Sean, Bill, why have you forsaken me?" he yells out. But no one answers.
    posted by Yowser at 2:26 PM on October 19, 2016


    Matt Pearce ‏@mattdpearce 5m I wonder how long Jonah's had that anecdote nocked and ready to fire.

    Matt Pearce ‏@mattdpearce 4m 'cause this sure looks like a perfectly timed shitstorm
    posted by Celsius1414 at 2:27 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    I have to say that Ivanka Trump thing, if true, shocks me in a way that nothing else has this election.

    I flatly do not believe it. It seems like an attempt to shame her in a super gross sexual & racist way and I feel gross even talking about it.
    posted by corb at 2:27 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]




    i read the email in context at the time and my impression was he was covering his ass rather than making a joke.

    (so, no references?)
    posted by andrewcooke at 2:27 PM on October 19, 2016


    I'm actually in disbelief that this wasn't a case of Chelsea Peretti stealing her brother's phone and making the craziest joke of the whole election. Jonah confirms it's real.
    posted by acidic at 2:28 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    The Ivanka thing is the very epitome of He Said/She Said and is not even about the candidate himself, so at this point discussing it feels like indulging in pointless rich people gossip.
    posted by Atom Eyes at 2:29 PM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    so at this point discussing it feels like indulging in pointless rich people gossip.

    AKA Buzzfeed.
    posted by Celsius1414 at 2:30 PM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    It's not that I think that isn't a horrible thing for Ivanka to have said. It's not that I think she didn't say it or that it was all a misunderstanding. I just think that there's tons of substance in this election that's worthy of our discussion as opposed to a contextless statement that nobody can prove happened or did not happen. Apart from the accusation itself, there's nothing to talk about other than “is there any possible context in which that's OK to say,” and that's an argument that I don't feel like having with anyone.

    So much of the day-to-day goings-on of this campaign are covered in three layers of metacommentary, and the only thing that makes that OK to me is the fact that there's something of substance underneath. The Access Hollywood tape, for instance, is not just scandalous in a pearl-clutching way — it's got people on cable news networks talking about how rape culture gets normalized. Let's keep our eyes on the ball here. If Bill Clinton isn't running for president, then neither is Ivanka Trump.
    posted by savetheclocktower at 2:30 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Ivanka? I thought she was born and raised in the US.

    Yeah, I fucked it up, oops.
    posted by tivalasvegas at 2:30 PM on October 19, 2016




    Ivanka isn't running for office either.
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:31 PM on October 19, 2016 [16 favorites]


    I agree that there's no point in focusing on this when there are more important issues, but Peretti does say there were five other people present. So he should have corroboration if it is true.
    posted by peacheater at 2:31 PM on October 19, 2016


    She's a campaign surrogate. Were we not just on an extended Bill debate? We don't think Ivanka would be involved in a Trump administration now?

    If that's in bounds, so is this. You don't get to pick and choose which allegations of prurient interests are fair game.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 2:32 PM on October 19, 2016 [14 favorites]


    If talking about this pisses Donald off to the point where he starts bringing it up at the debate unprompted, then I'm all for talking about it
    posted by prize bull octorok at 2:34 PM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    I can hear Donnie's brain exploding from here.
    posted by mikelieman at 2:34 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Whether immediate members of DJT's or HRC's respective families are horrible people has no bearing on whether either should be elected.

    Not according to DJT, or his surrogates, of whom, Ivanka is one.
    posted by Chrischris at 2:35 PM on October 19, 2016 [11 favorites]


    I was told there'd be cake.
    posted by petebest at 2:36 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Chelsea Clinton and others have pointed to his 2004 heart attack as a life changing event for Bill Clinton. We know he went mostly vegan, stopped drinking vodka, and quit cigars.
    posted by humanfont at 2:36 PM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    An lewd comment Ivanka may have said in a private conversation 8-10 years ago is not anyone's legitimate interest. Give me a break. People have the right for one-off drunk comments in a bar to be forgotten after week, let alone a decade. If you think this is the smoking gun you need to prove the Trump family's racism, you need a serious reality check.
    posted by 0xFCAF at 2:37 PM on October 19, 2016 [17 favorites]


    You're right, we KNOW they're racist, this is just more evidence.
    posted by Yowser at 2:38 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I can hear Donnie's brain exploding from here.

    Yeah let's not get ahead of ourselves here. It's all stupid enough as it is, what with the bloody debate coming up and all.
    posted by Namlit at 2:38 PM on October 19, 2016


    I am not clear on how we are supposed to prove Bill Clinton has not been cheating. I mean, I have video of an empty room that Clinton is not cheating in.

    The issues, of course, is not actually whether Bill has been unfaithful. It never was. It was about him abusing his position and about him allegedly raping someone. There have been no reports of him doing either in the past, what, decade, decade and a half, and absence evidence of wrongdoing I will presume there has been none. If evidence presents itself, I will revise this accordingly, but for the moment its so hypothetically as to not be especially useful in this discussion.
    posted by maxsparber at 2:38 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I totally agree that a serious public apology from Bill would be ideal.

    The timing of it being one week before the convening of the Congressional investigating committee formed to determine what Hillary's involvement and culpability is. Of course there will be 24-7 coverage of the hearings, and of course the Supreme Court nominations won't be able to go through until it's determined whether get guilt us an impeachable offense...

    Done properly, they'll be able to string out this and related inquiries out for three years.
    posted by happyroach at 2:39 PM on October 19, 2016


    A conversation 8-10 years ago that 4-5 people might be able to corroborate that took place in a dive bar. Turns out BuzzFeed actually is real journalism after all! (To be clear, I don't have much problem believing the story, but this is homeopathically weak sauce here.)
    posted by feloniousmonk at 2:39 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    No one said it's a smoking gun, it's an in character anecdote that further confirms what was already well documented.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 2:39 PM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    melissasaurus: Republicans are defending majorities in Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire and New Mexico, where polls show Clinton currently leading the race for the White House.

    New Mexico is pretty blue, and one of the states that would stay blue, even if only men voted (per 538's recent assessment), and here's a 538-via-NYT blog post in 2012 on what happened in New Mexico, which used to be fairly red, and Wikipedia has a section on the state's political leanings. Currently, the New Mexico State Legislature has split majorities, with Democrats controlling the Senate and the House of Representatives being controlled by Republicans, and our two US Senators are Dems, while two out of our three US House Representatives are Dems, with the Republican representing the southern part of the state.

    And now you know.
    posted by filthy light thief at 2:39 PM on October 19, 2016


    So apparently Malik Obama is a strong supporter of Hamas. Security must love that. Although I suppose Hamas doesn't generally target the USA.
    posted by Justinian at 2:39 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    If you think this is the smoking gun you need to prove the Trump family's racism, you need a serious reality check.

    I don't believe that's the point. It's 100% to get under Donnie's thin skin. When he pivots off an attack on Bill to "They're saying horrible things about my family" and goes off on a rant , I'm downing whatever whisky is in the glass at the time, and refilling it with a double.
    posted by mikelieman at 2:40 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Ivanka isn't running for office either.

    No, the person who raiser her is. Past performance is not an indicator of future results, but that's usually the way to bet.
    posted by Kid Charlemagne at 2:40 PM on October 19, 2016


    Trump campaign sued over Skittles pic tweeted by son: "The photographer whose image of a bowl of Skittles was used in controversial tweet by Donald Trump Jr. is reportedly suing the Trump presidential campaign for copyright infringement."
    posted by zachlipton at 2:40 PM on October 19, 2016 [21 favorites]


    Video of Ivanka's comments [fake]

    That's a pretty sensible self-test for public figures to use in speech and interview situations: "Will [thing about to come out of my mouth] make me sound like Sterling Archer?" If so, perhaps consider stifling.
    posted by FelliniBlank at 2:41 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    My main interest in the Ivanka alleged statement is twofold:
    1. It's right before the debate, so I hope it bothers Donald and throws him even more off of his game (maybe he accidentally drops the word she used, because it's on his mind); and
    2. I relish anything that might hurt her brand. She's complicit in this and doesn't just get to walk away unscathed and pretend she represents compassionate conservatism.
    posted by melissasaurus at 2:42 PM on October 19, 2016 [17 favorites]


    No, the person who raiser her is. Past performance is not an indicator of future results, but that's usually the way to bet.

    Perfectly decent people can raise utterly awful humans and vice versa. This is just garbage, and let's try to be better.
    posted by maxsparber at 2:42 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Cut, cut, cut, cut, cut; turn 270 degrees to the left. Cut, cut, cut, cut, cut; turn 270 degrees to the left. Cut, cut, cut, cut, cut; turn 270 degrees to the left.

    Suddenly realising that Trump's hair resembles a cornfield cut by a blind one-armed farmer under the influence of potato moonshine. Huh.

    Cut, cut, cut, cut, cut; turn 270 degrees to the left. Cut, cut, cut, cut, cut; turn 270 degrees to the left. Cut, cut, cut, cut, cut; turn 270 degrees to the left.
    posted by Wordshore at 2:43 PM on October 19, 2016 [22 favorites]


    @JoshuaGreen
    SCOOPLET: One of Trump's "secret" debate guests is James O'Keefe. Watch yourself, gullible libs!
    posted by PenDevil at 2:44 PM on October 19, 2016


    I kind of agree that this is nothingsauce for the celebrityburger, but on the other hand I think the revelation of 'crude language' at the top of the Republican party is something that actually gets through to a lot of center-right white people who honestly believe(d) that racism is mostly over.

    It opens the door to a conversation about "hey, uh, that thing that you thought got fixed in the 60s? It didn't get fixed" - and if this is what it finally takes to get them to acknowledge that racism and sexism are still serious issues in 2016, so be it. They've spent decades arguing that "oh no, we're not racist - we don't use xyz words" and now they need to confront the fact that, hey, 30% of the country including the GOP nominee uses those words, so, uh, what does that say about institutional racism.

    Some folks will find ways to paper over the hypocrisy of course, but others are looking around and saying, hey, this doesn't sit right with me.
    posted by tivalasvegas at 2:46 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Will O'Keefe be wearing his "pimp" disguise?

    Isn't he "convicted fraudster James O'Keefe"? I feel like that should always be his official title.
    posted by emjaybee at 2:46 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Cut, cut, cut, cut, cut; turn 270 degrees to the left. Cut, cut, cut, cut, cut; turn 270 degrees to the left.

    And then a step to the riiiiiiight!
    posted by petebest at 2:47 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Nautical Rapist James O'Keefe.
    posted by Artw at 2:48 PM on October 19, 2016 [11 favorites]


    I was told there'd be cake.

    One of my wife's clients missed a meeting so in their rain check today she brought her a red velvet bundt cake by way of apology. It is fate.
    posted by DynamiteToast at 2:49 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    My interest is more meta: so Peretti was just sitting in the Burbank airport lounge, read a story where Ivanka professed to be jarred by her dad's language, and was like "I guess I'll just drop this anecdote without any context or explanation" as if people wouldn't, you know, have some questions?
    posted by zachlipton at 2:49 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Is Trump inviting all these people to provide himself visual reminders of his talking points? Like he can't get away with writing notes on his hand or a 3x5 card, but maybe he can look to the audience and remember which person and their bullshit he's supposed to talk about?

    (Not saying Bill Clinton's accusers are bullshit here, but given that he's not running it's a bullshit topic. The rest of this is straight-up bullshit, though.)
    posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:49 PM on October 19, 2016


    Apparently Elizabeth Warren Tweeted today:

    It's not rigged, @realDonaldTrump. You're losing fair & square. Put on your big-boy pants because this is what accountability looks like.

    I just love her so much.
    posted by emjaybee at 2:49 PM on October 19, 2016 [60 favorites]


    I do find it kind of annoying the way the various women get conflated. Women he had entirely consensual affairs with (Flowers, Lewinsky) get conflated with women who report he sexually harassed them (Paula Jones) get conflated with women who report he raped them (Broaddrick.) Which I find particularly problematic because as far as I know that's the only credible accusation of actual rape... and the only time she spoke about it under oath she claimed she wasn't raped. At which point you kind of lose my default stance of believing the woman in regards to her other versions of the story. Doesn't mean those couldn't be true and her testimony the lie, but she's definitely lied at some point.

    He's certainly had affairs, he's almost certainly sexually harassed women, but I consider the rapist claim fairly questionable without further evidence.
    posted by tavella at 2:50 PM on October 19, 2016 [15 favorites]


    I relish Hillary Clinton overwhelming Trump's nonsense by being calm, clear, policy-oriented, empathetic and deeply, deeply competent. So far it has looked like that, with the beautiful bonus that it unwinds Trump still further.

    Springing little bullshitty traps about Ivanka is the wrong track.
    posted by argybarg at 2:51 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    SCOOPLET: One of Trump's "secret" debate guests is James O'Keefe. Watch yourself, gullible libs!

    Someone should tell him this event is already being taped.
    posted by snuffleupagus at 2:52 PM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    He's certainly had affairs, he's almost certainly sexually harassed women, but I consider the rapist claim fairly questionable without further evidence.

    Hannity was going on about some story from an Enquirer reporter who was a fixer and outed Hillary Clinton as a polyamorous lesbian. I guess actually they meant bisexual, but you know, as long as there was consent, I don't give a shit.
    posted by mikelieman at 2:54 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Debate post preview: Bingo cards
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:54 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Springing little bullshitty traps about Ivanka is the wrong track.

    True, since this erection is rigged anyway.
    posted by Namlit at 2:55 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Springing little bullshitty traps about Ivanka is the wrong track.

    The Clinton campaign is too smart to touch anything like this with a 1000ft pole. They're not Trump.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 2:55 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    ...no, I will not use the "edit" button.
    posted by Namlit at 2:57 PM on October 19, 2016 [54 favorites]


    Hillary Clinton as a polyamorous lesbian. I guess actually they meant bisexual, but you know, as long as there was consent, I don't give a shit.

    I long for the day when an American politician can say openly and with a straight face that he/she/they is poly, or their marriage is open, or whatever. The stakes are a little too high this time around, but damn it I've been wanting to hear someone in American politics say that before I even heard the term "polyamory."
    posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:57 PM on October 19, 2016 [13 favorites]


    > "The Clinton campaign is too smart to touch anything like this with a 1000ft pole."

    One of the unsettling things about the Trump campaign, is that, even if Hillary Clinton never says a word about this in her entire life (which is, frankly, the likeliest scenario) within a week they are likely to morph this into "the Clinton smear machine attacked my daughter!" anyway.
    posted by kyrademon at 2:57 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Celebrity gossip or not, I'm pretty much not okay with dismissing racist statements made by one of the people running the campaign of a presidential candidate, even if it was talking about cock and posted on Buzzfeed.
    posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:57 PM on October 19, 2016 [11 favorites]


    Metafilter: Oxymoron of the week, "clean election thread."
    posted by Oyéah at 2:58 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    I am now no longer assuming that any personal stories reported about any of the candidates (including McGriddle McMullin), their families, their official "surrogates" or anyone who is within a 10-foot-pole's reach is likely truthful, accurate or particularly relevant. But then, I've sent in my ballot; this whole election is now merely a source of very guilty entertainment to me (with a little sideline cheerleading for downticket races). It's a very liberating feeling. Also, my first check-in with my new high-tech heart monitoring device this morning shows no 'events' in the first week I've used it. So election-oriented OSFCPL*: Zero. Cardiological OSFCPL: Zero. Still need to see my neurologist about my general weakness and unsteadiness, so neurological OSFCPL is still 33%, and medical-bills-based OSFCPL remains at 25%. Life goes on, but I look forward to Doing the Time Warp Again.

    OSFCPL: One Swell Foop Current Panic Level
    posted by oneswellfoop at 2:59 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Donald's numbers are still going down in Texas you guys. TEXAS. He's only at +4.1.

    I have seesawed so much between horror and joy this election, I'm now numb. I don't care what he does tonight. Foams at the mouth. Rolls his eyes up in his head and gets slain by the spirit and starts talking in tongues. Whatever. I know she'll handle it and move on.
    posted by emjaybee at 2:59 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    I know there were some complaint earlier about 'fan fiction' earlier but I must get this out of my head or it will drive me mad. Feel free too skip this comment if you're one of those folks who doesn't want to read absurdist debate fan fic. Anyway, here's my [fake] scenario for what happens if Donald skips out on the final debate:

    The debate is about to start and Twitter is buzzing with rumors and speculation as several anonymous sources report that Trump's motorcade hasn't departed for the event as scheduled. Trump campaign refusing to comment—radio silence, ignoring reporters and walking away when confronted. Finally Trump's twitter lights up in a flurry of activity. The tweet storm appears hastily composed, riddled with typos, confusing auto-correct substitutions but the message is clear: Trump has decided not to attend the final debate due to some combination of Clinton's refusal to take a drug test and the media being rigged against him. Minutes later a series of slightly more intelligible iPhone tweets clarify that Trump will be holding an event at his hotel to "address the issues that really matter to the American people". By now the network debate coverage has gone live and the pundits are scrambling to explain what is happening and speculating as to how it will play out. Suddenly all of the feeds cut to the debate hall as Hillary Clinton walks out on to the stage to join Chris Wallace. Wallace tries to read through his scripted opening but quickly goes off script offering an apology to the viewing audience for this unprecedented break from tradition and wondering out loud about how to proceed without the other candidate present. "Actually" Clinton interjects, grinning "I had a feeling this might happen. I know my opponent likes to criticize me for over-preparing but as president you need to have a plan for every possible scenario" and then as an aside to one of her staffers off camera "Bring out the Trump TV"

    The room goes quiet in anticipation and a faint squeaking can be heard, soft at first but growing louder. Soon the source of the noise is revealed as two Clinton staffers slowly wheel out a bulky CRT television on a rolling cart. The TV is maneuvered into the space where Trump would be, the staffers make a final check of the equipment and press the power button. Trumps face fills the screen playing footage from the previous debates, scowling as he waits impatiently for his turn to speak.

    "You see, Chris" Clinton explains "I didn't think it would be fair to not give my opponent a chance to speak here tonight, even if he doesn't seem to think it is important and we already had all of this video transcribed, time stamped, and indexed and I would hate to have all of that effort by my great video production team go to waste so we're going to let Donald answer your questions in his own words even if he can't be here in person. Oh, and don't worry, I know that some of the things he's said aren't exactly *ahem* appropriate for live TV so we'll be limiting our sources to only things he has said in the speeches, debates, events and official campaign releases since he declared his candidacy." Wallace looks off into the distance, listening intently to his earpiece and then announces that because Trump has forfeited his time by refusing to attend the event the Commission on Presidential Debates has decided to allow Clinton's proposal.

    Right from the first question Clinton goes full policy wonk outlining plans, citing sources and referencing policy proposals. She is in her element. Without the burden of Trumps constant antagonism and subject pivoting she is able to actually address the substance of the questions—even gracefully addressing an email gotcha from Wallace. Whenever it's Trumps turn a chyron appears on the TV listing some keywords related to the question. The editing is choppy, jarring—a clip from a rally, a snippet from the first debate, another rally, Trump at the RNC, a clip from his youtube policy page, another speech, for two minutes it goes on before being cut off unceremoniously mid-sentence. Wallace looks bemused. Already twitter is blowing up with hot takes about how TV Trump is so much better at staying on topic and delivering his talking points than Trump Trump. Clinton is clearly enjoying herself.

    Meanwhile, Trump's attempt at counter programming has failed miserably. Many networks, including Fox News haven't even sent camera crews, choosing instead to limit their coverage of it to updates on the news crawl. A Periscope feed from a random tourist who happened to be in the hotel lobby at the becomes the main window into the event which appears to consist mainly of Trump's unhinged rambling about how unfair it is that no one in the media is covering his event. After about 15 minutes of this Bannon leans in a whispers to explain what Clinton is doing at the debate. Trump pulls up the feed on his phone, watching in silence and becoming increasingly agitated. He starts ranting but before he can get too far Kellyanne Conway swoops in and physically drags him into an elevator. Before the elevator door closes several gendered slurs can be heard mixed in with the rest of his incoherent sputtering.

    About halfway through the 'debate' Clinton is laying out her economic plan and she cites some employment figures. "WRONG!" the TV interrupts. Laughter can be heard from the audience. Clinton smirks and says "Well, we did want this to be as close to the real thing as possible" and then goes on to elaborate on her sources and explain what the numbers mean in relation to her proposals. When Wallace comes to a question about Trump's accusers the TV plays 1 minute of vehement denials, clips of Trump insisting that he has never kissed anyone non-consensually followed by 1 minute of the clip of the little girl trying to wriggle away and avoid his kiss looping over and over and over.

    The debate closes with Wallace noting that he's never experienced anything like this before, Clinton agrees. He asks if they would like to make closing statements. Clinton hits all of her key points one more time closing by encouraging everyone to get out the vote on November 8th. TV Trump flips through his own "greatest hits" and closes with the clip of him telling his audience to vote on November 28th. Clinton chuckles and asks Wallace if he'd like to fact check that. Wallace sighs and says "well, I did say that I wasn't here to play the truth squad."
    posted by metaphorever at 2:59 PM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    > I don't understand what you're saying. Strangers can change my ballot?!?


    Sorry, late night iphone typing:

    I can change your registration address, or party affiliation. My friends had their party ID swapped to Independent recently without them knowing (possibly to make it hard to vote in the primary?).

    As for Voter ID, I meant "I'm all for voter motor / auto sign up when you get state ID" but we need to make the system easier to make that information private, which is counter to the agenda of the politic parties that what it public / easy to access for GOTV efforts.
    posted by mrzarquon at 3:00 PM on October 19, 2016


    A veritable clown car of guests.

    @HallieJackson
    So: Trump source tells me @SarahPalinUSA is an invited guest to tonight's #debate.
    posted by chris24 at 3:01 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    He's put together the right wing politics version of the wack pack.
    posted by cmfletcher at 3:02 PM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    The ideal scenario then is for Clinton and her team to quietly exit as the doors close and the venue is revealed to be a cruiseship that embarks on wacky adventures upon the open waters.
    posted by erratic meatsack at 3:03 PM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    I have never assumed anything about the Clintons other than it is difficult to live in the light of constant scrutiny. As for Hillary Clinton, she has lived through the storm of constant abuse, at the hands of the US Congress. Assuming, speculating, about Hillary's personal life, in light of Wiki leaks being unable to find a single needle in that haystack, is just propagandizing.
    posted by Oyéah at 3:03 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    So: Trump source tells me @SarahPalinUSA is an invited guest to tonight's #debate.

    Didn't I hear her booking agent insists on pay-or-play?
    posted by mikelieman at 3:04 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Any of you ever seen The Artistocrats? I suspect many of you have since that's a pretty common non-sequitur punchline around these parts.

    I do comedy. I hang out with comedians. Backstage, before shows, its not unusual for us to try and say the most offensive shocking things we possibly can to each other. I've done comedy at a memorial service (everyone should try to do that once) and backstage we made the darkest possible jokes about the person we were paying tribute to - a man we all loved dearly. Man, we're a shitty group of people, comedians.

    So, yeah, when I've been in private with my comedian friends, I've said every awful thing I could possible say. Then one day, here on Metafilter, and I think this day was in the last five years, I learned that ironic racism is still racism and provides cover for actual racists. I grappled with this idea for a few months because if I agreed with it, it meant I had to inconvenience myself and change my behavior. Furthermore, it meant ironic sexism and homophobia and transphobia all had to go from my backstage comedy toolkit too. In the end, I decided I'd rather be inconvenienced and be a slightly more decent person than keep making the same awful jokes and maybe be hurting people.

    I'm a far left progressive who hangs around with other far left progressives (many of them those same comedians). I see ironic sexism/racism/homophobia/transphobia all the time in contemporary media to this day - it still pretty mainstream. The idea that ironic racism is still racism is still a pretty new one and we've not embraced it as a society yet. I think we should, but we haven't.

    Reading the Buzzfeed article, this leaped out at me:
    Of course, it was memorable just because of the use of the lewd language and racist language. It was also memorable being in the environment of being… in New York, sometimes liberal and progressive people make comments meant as jokes and not necessarily earnest. I didn’t know how to take it.
    So, its possible that Ivanka was being ironically racist for the sake of a shock laugh. Which is still racist in that its ironic racism. So the response I'd want to hear from her is "Yes, I said it, but I was saying it to be shocking and I've since learned that ironic racism is still racism and I've stopped making that sort of joke." Mostly because that's how I'd respond if some of the awful things I've said as recently as four or five years ago was ever quoted in public by one of the people who heard it.

    And if she didn't say it - and maybe she didn't, we don't know - then spending as much time as I've just spent overthinking it is a waste of everyone's time. Specifically, my time. In fact, I'd say the odds are pretty good that this is time wasted.

    That all said, this could matters more for her long-term viability as a public figure who runs her own company than anything else. It doesn't impact on whether or not I'd vote for her father one iota. That ship sailed so long ago that its already arrived in its destination port, picked up a new load of passengers and headed off on its next trip.

    Beans - plated.
    posted by Joey Michaels at 3:04 PM on October 19, 2016 [18 favorites]


    How the fuck many guests does Trump get to have? O'Keefe? Palin? This is increasingly absurd.
    posted by dnash at 3:04 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Apparently Elizabeth Warren Tweeted today:

    It's not rigged, @realDonaldTrump. You're losing fair & square. Put on your big-boy pants because this is what accountability looks like.

    I just love her so much.


    Me too! A perverse part of me sort of hopes Curt Schilling actually follows through on his half-assed threat to run against her, because boy would THAT be entertaining.
    posted by FelliniBlank at 3:05 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Hallie Jackson reporting that Sarah Palin will be attending the debate as a guest of Donald Trump tonight. (Oops - on preview)
    posted by Sophie1 at 3:06 PM on October 19, 2016


    Next time I'm running for president I'll bring Kermit and the Swedish chef as a guest to the debate. Sheesh.
    posted by Namlit at 3:07 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Me too! A perverse part of me sort of hopes Curt Schilling actually follows through on his half-assed threat to run against her, because boy would THAT be entertaining.

    Charlie Pierce: All I Want for Christmas Is for Curt Schilling to Run for Senate
    posted by zombieflanders at 3:07 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Next time I'm running for president I'll bring Kermit and the Swedish chef as a guest to the debate. Sheesh.

    If Statler and Waldorf are the moderators, you have my vote.
    posted by Celsius1414 at 3:08 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Trump's guests ARE The Aristocrats.
    posted by oneswellfoop at 3:09 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    In three years NBC will unleash new reality TV series about a wealthy blowhard running for President. Unbeknownst to all of us, we're participants in the show. It's really the only explanation for his continued reliance on every reality TV trope in pursuit of his candidacy.

    I know this isn't new thinking but, damn, I'm moving more from the 'ha ha joke' column to the 'post-satire this is really real' column as each day passes.
    posted by Fezboy! at 3:11 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    If I didn't think it was beneath her to stoop to her opponent's Secret! Surprise! Guest! shenanigans, I'd like to see HRC invite Alec Baldwin to the debate and have him sit in the front row all done up in his SNL makeup and wig and giving Trump the death stare for the entire 90 minutes.
    posted by Atom Eyes at 3:12 PM on October 19, 2016 [55 favorites]


    Clearly the correct Muppet spoiler guests are Statler and Waldorf.
    posted by xyzzy at 3:12 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    It opens the door to a conversation

    Someone once told me that the best way to deal with gross commentary from people is to ask them flat-out "What is the joke? I don't understand what's so funny, explain it to me?"

    Likewise, when I hear this tweet, I think it's important to ask: what is the person releasing it trying to say?

    Are they trying to say Ivanka has used racist language? No, I don't think so - if they had, there's no need for the sexual content. They could just say, "When spending time with Ivanka, she used racial slurs." Are they trying to say that she talked about cock and thus shouldn't be shocked by Trump's language? No, because in that case, they would have talked about the other supposed instances.

    The person who released this tweet meant it to be shocking - not just that Ivanka used the word 'cock', but that she specifically wanted to see a *racial slur* cock. The shock value lies in racism, that it would be shocking and extra crude if white Ivanka was talking about POC penis in a semi-positive way.

    This is the gross, horrible, racist language and implications of people who use the word 'cuck', and I cannot believe that Peretti repeated it unknowingly.


    Anyone who profits off of this in any way is profiting off promulgating the horrible racist meme that white women having sexual contact with men of color is a violation, that Ivanka would be somehow lesser if she had expressed sexual interest in them. It's not about the racial slur - if it had been, it either would have been centered more or the sexual element would not have been included.

    It is racial slut shaming of the very worst kind and it deserves no place in the public conversation.
    posted by corb at 3:12 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Trump's only bringing Sarah Palin because the Debate Commission wouldn't allow Vince Foster's corpse. [fake]
    posted by neroli at 3:14 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    No, it's pointing out that it's extremely hypocritical, not to mention a damn lie, that it was shocking to Ivanka to hear such naughty language out of daddy's mouth, since that's not what her people do.
    posted by palomar at 3:15 PM on October 19, 2016 [17 favorites]


    Maybe you have to have lived through Falwell's heyday, and all the moral majority horseshit, to understand why this kind of stuff is politically relevant.
    posted by Sing Or Swim at 3:17 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]




    A new Emerson College poll has Evan McMullin up 6 points (!!) in Utah

    Emerson is landline-only with some weird shits-and-giggles standard corrections for mobile.

    I assume that Trump is getting his uppers/downers meds for the debate. I also assume that the "guests" have been told to heckle, and I hope the CPD has a delay and a willingness to cut the feed if that happens, like when an idiot pitch invader seeks his moment of fame.
    posted by holgate at 3:19 PM on October 19, 2016


    Apparently the Trump side is going to go with the Clinton abandoned son thing.
    posted by peacheater at 3:19 PM on October 19, 2016


    The Clinton campaign is too smart to touch anything like this with a 1000ft pole

    I've never seen a 1000 ft pole but I'd like to!
    posted by srboisvert at 3:19 PM on October 19, 2016 [21 favorites]


    It's not shaming when it goes directly to her character for truthfulness.

    And no one here is passing judgment for her flavor of kink, only her lying about how nice her family talks
    posted by T.D. Strange at 3:21 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    For Philadelphia and other nearby mefites, Hillary & Tim Kaine are having holding a rally this weekend!
    posted by cashman at 3:22 PM on October 19, 2016


    I've never seen a 1000 ft pole but I'd like to!

    Heck, the tallest flagpole in the world is only 558' (170m)!
    posted by Celsius1414 at 3:22 PM on October 19, 2016


    When I first saw Pepe the Frog shanghaied into service for the Deplorables, one of my first thoughts was "You are NO Kermit, and we KNOW Kermit is With Hillary". We need Maximum Muppet Mobilization, and if you HAVE to have non-Hillary supporters from the felt forces, you can always use the deplorable muppets from "The Land of Gorch", ironically, an SNL segment from long ago.
    posted by oneswellfoop at 3:24 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Calling Tina Fey.
    posted by Sophie1 at 3:24 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Evan's campaign advisor just called Trump's trade policy "batshit" live on MSNBC.
    posted by xyzzy at 3:25 PM on October 19, 2016 [15 favorites]


    Apparently the Trump side is going to go with the Clinton abandoned son thing.

    Oh God, I hate this election so much.
    posted by skybluepink at 3:25 PM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    Rick Wilson to AJ Delgado. "The Republican party needs Donald Trump like they need herpes."
    posted by Sophie1 at 3:27 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    How the fuck many guests does Trump get to have? O'Keefe? Palin? This is increasingly absurd.

    Clinton:

    "You are all small men.

    None of you are fit to lead the Dothraki.

    But I am.

    So I will."

    [fake]
    posted by srboisvert at 3:27 PM on October 19, 2016 [13 favorites]


    Evan's campaign advisor just called Trump's trade policy "batshit" live on MSNBC.

    Is this Sarah Rumpfshaker? I heart this whole campaign so much, even if it's just positioning for the GOP civil war.
    posted by corb at 3:28 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Trump side is going to go with the Clinton abandoned son thing.
    And Trump's Mirror has just increased the odds of either 'Donald pays for mistresses' abortions' and/or 'Trump illegitimate children (multiple)' to Near Certainty.
    posted by oneswellfoop at 3:29 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Gendry Trump is actually a pretty OK guy I've heard
    posted by prize bull octorok at 3:31 PM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]




    Was it wrong to buy Skittles for the debate?
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:34 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]




    This helps.

    @NailaSAwan
    Big #votingrights victory in #Ohio: ct orders relief to allow voters who have been illegally purged since 2011 participate in the election
    posted by chris24 at 3:35 PM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    Was it wrong to buy Skittles for the debate?

    only if you DON'T add them to an ice cold beer

    mmmm skittlebrau
    posted by entropicamericana at 3:35 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    I have never seen such a thing as this inside out American election. We are approaching a societal singularity, in which every word, ever said, every act ever reported remain in this floating state, ready to be put in front of the world, like the caterpillar's smoke rings out of Alice in Wonderland. Oh was this not revealing enough, let me bedazzle you with this. The rank goings on at every level are strung up like laundry lines across fifth avenue. We are a village full of idiots unaware of impending doom, and laughter. The holier than thou crowd are the biggest players of the bunch, putting in their credit cards to soak up more porn. I am not hearing a thing about serving all the American people from the Republican side, it is more like a pep rally before a game they are about to lose. The Democrats are being sucked down the glory hole, left from their inability to step away from the basic way our government works. Maybe I just never took the time to closely observe an election before, or maybe the new microscope the web bought, has made a lot of things more clear.

    We have had and are still having horrible political times. But plenty of local races mean something to the locals who will live with the outcomes, people have put their hearts, and monies on the lines to make their communities better. This is the America I love. So best to us as we venture out to make our Democratic ideals work.

    If we want to lead in this world, we have to be good to this world. We can't be just another abusive situation stepping in, and a lot of people are working on this, all over the world in our name. Let us back them up and do what we can locally to heal, and go forward.
    posted by Oyéah at 3:37 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Was it wrong to buy Skittles for the debate?

    I bought Cheetos, I think you're fine.
    posted by peeedro at 3:39 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Calling Tina Fey.

    The SNL writers must have tripped over themselves running to Lorne's office screaming, "call Tina, call Tina!"
    posted by Ber at 3:40 PM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    We are approaching a societal singularity, in which every word, ever said, every act ever reported remain in this floating state, ready to be put in front of the world, like the caterpillar's smoke rings out of Alice in Wonderland.

    Wait until we have a Presidential election where both candidates are young enough to have had extensive social media presences in high school and college. Every single kegger, beach photo, duck-face selfie, photo with smoke/cigarette present, and guilt-by-association photo with somebody who did something awful will be out for the entire length of the season. We've not seen nothin' yet.
    posted by Joey Michaels at 3:42 PM on October 19, 2016 [14 favorites]


    It is racial slut shaming of the very worst kind

    Calling a person who uses a racist slur a racist is not slut shaming.

    Calling someone out as a hypocrite for claiming to be shocked at 'locker room talk' when she herself uses similar foul language is not slut shaming.

    Using direct quotes when accusing someone of the above is best journalistic practice.

    The Buzzfeed article did not criticise Ivanka Trump for her sexual desires. Neither did anyone else here.
    posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:44 PM on October 19, 2016 [21 favorites]


    Can we please drop this Ivanka derail?
    posted by humanfont at 3:44 PM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]



    So I'm totally unable to think like someone who doesn't usually pay much attention to politics. I'm wondering how 'average public' is going to respond to Trump just flinging all this poo at the debate. I'd like to think by this point many will just have had enough, think that guy is nuts and desperate, maybe gawk at a bit and then go on without changing.
    You think this is all something that could change minds and be a thing? Change peoples minds about Hillary enough to make a difference? Or just holy hell let this thing END ALREADY.

    I guess I'm just wondering how much the public has reached a limit of putting much credence into what Trump is blathering about. (Beyond is base of course who will lap this up as a dream scenario come true)
    posted by Jalliah at 3:45 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Oh God, I hate this election so much.


    Me too. I guess it's only fair that our political process be as base and foul as, for instance, American shenanigans with the Haitian minimum wage, but it's still really depressing.

    In re the Ivanka thing: It is creepy to me because it is dehumanizing, like saying "I'd like to sleep with a [category of person] just to see what it's like". (In addition to the slur.)
    posted by Frowner at 3:45 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    I feel like this:
    I long for the day when an American politician can say openly and with a straight face that he/she/they is poly, or their marriage is open, or whatever. The stakes are a little too high this time around, but damn it I've been wanting to hear someone in American politics say that before I even heard the term "polyamory."

    And this:
    Wait until we have a Presidential election where both candidates are young enough to have had extensive social media presences in high school and college. Every single kegger, beach photo, duck-face selfie, photo with smoke/cigarette present, and guilt-by-association photo with somebody who did something awful will be out for the entire length of the season.

    Are related.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 3:45 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    If we care about Fred Trump's Klan membership (not to assume we all do), isn't this pertinent too, maybe to a lesser extent? This is a heinous racial slur. (And I disagree that Peretti could have told this story credibly while omitting the sexual aspect. The very first question would have been "In what context did this happen? What was the rest of the sentence?") This family has a toxic and severe racism problem.

    I feel like I've cut Ivanka slack in the past compared to her brothers because she *looks* so nice and pretty like a princess (hi internalized sexism). Would we feel differently if this was Eric or Don Jr. talking about "m*****o pussy"?

    I'm too mixed up to know even where I stand on this. All I can say is THANK YOU DEAR GOD these people will not be governing the country, in all likelihood.
    posted by sallybrown at 3:46 PM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    Corb - it was Rick Wilson.
    posted by Sophie1 at 3:46 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I relish anything that might hurt her brand.

    FWIW, I don't flow fashion at all and in my RSS feed I've seen mentions from three fashion bloggers who have said they will not cover her anymore.

    @HallieJackson
    So: Trump source tells me @SarahPalinUSA is an invited guest to tonight's #debate


    I'm sorry.
    posted by Room 641-A at 3:47 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I feel like I've cut Ivanka slack in the past compared to her brothers because she *looks* so nice and pretty like a princess (hi internalized sexism). Would we feel differently if this was Eric or Don Jr. talking about "m*****o pussy"?

    I think this is absolutely true. Ivanka gets all kinds of slack that she probably shouldn't get.

    That said, we have the Buzzfeed dude saying this happened and... that's the sum total of it. Unless a bunch more people come forward saying similar things I'm pretty okay with ignoring the Buzzfeed dude.
    posted by Justinian at 3:49 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    "Clinton: "You are all small men. None of you are fit to lead the Dothraki. But I am. So I will."

    Heh, I made a super-hacky GIF of this during the primaries when the GOP clown show was still running.
    posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:49 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Today's lunch break consisted of food plus listening to "The Schuyler Sisters" from Hamilton on loop. If you need a break from the election craziness, I highly recommend food and work work.
    posted by Joey Michaels at 3:51 PM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Oyéah: If we want to lead in this world, we have to be good to this world.

    Please don't take this personally, but what makes you think the US needs to lead? Can't it just be a country among countries? Over here in Europe, I don't feel that we're actually looking for a leader. We can lead ourselves. We just want to get along.
    Or is it that the US wants to lead? If that's the case, shouldn't the rest of the world get a say in that?
    posted by Too-Ticky at 3:52 PM on October 19, 2016 [17 favorites]


    Here's the (long) link for the bingo cards we're using tonight. I had to stop perusing old posts because I would never have stopped adding to the word list.
    posted by palindromic at 3:55 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Jennifer Jacobson: Trump skipped his walk-through at the debate hall, per the campaign. Didn't go. Still at his hotel. "His debate team is taking care of it."

    A real detail oriented leader, DT is not.
    posted by Sophie1 at 3:58 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Wait until we have a Presidential election where both candidates are young enough to have had extensive social media presences in high school and college. Every single kegger, beach photo, duck-face selfie, photo with smoke/cigarette present, and guilt-by-association photo with somebody who did something awful will be out for the entire length of the season. We've not seen nothin' yet.

    And the NSA, plus who knows how many other actors, has not only that stuff but everything every future candidate ever did on the internet, and possibly everything they ever did within view of any security camera that has its feed routed over the internet.
    posted by XMLicious at 3:58 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Former Prince Minister of Canada Jean Chretien (twitter): "there are pills to help you with pneumonia, but apparently there's no pill against stupidity."
    posted by sallybrown at 3:59 PM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    Can't it just be a country among countries? Over here in Europe, I don't feel that we're actually looking for a leader. We can lead ourselves. We just want to get along.
    Or is it that the US wants to lead? If that's the case, shouldn't the rest of the world get a say in that?


    The NATO budget and US security obligations in Europe pretty clearly suggest otherwise.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 3:59 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]




    I'm considering noping out of the debate and just hearing it from you guys. I know it's kind of ridiculous but I am actually starting to get incredibly agitated just hearing Trump's voice, and I'm just not sure I can hack this debate, especially if it gets as insane as I suspect it will.
    posted by corb at 4:00 PM on October 19, 2016 [24 favorites]


    So, Cleveland's baseball team just cinched a World Series appearance! (against either the Cubs or the Dodgers). Their first appearance in the World Series this century, and they'll be hosting game 1 for the first time in franchise history, next Tuesday.

    Hillary has an event scheduled for this Friday in Cleveland. Lebron James has been rooting the baseball team on in real time. Lebron's Cavs already finished their slate of preseason games yesterday. So why am I telling you this? Because it would be fantastic if Lebron, who has endorsed Hillary, shows up at the event in 2 days and the excitement just builds for the election and the series. And helps swing those numbers away from Trump.
    posted by cashman at 4:00 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    I'm considering noping out of the debate and just hearing it from you guys.

    That is what I did last time and what I'll do this time. Not watching the debate didn't keep it from being painful, just a warning.
    posted by Joey Michaels at 4:01 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    And the NSA, plus who knows how many other actors, has not only that stuff but everything every future candidate ever did on the internet, and possibly everything they ever did within view of any security camera that has its feed routed over the internet.

    Oh right, "the government is tracking all of us!" Pfft. Whatever, UFO guy.

    This moment of pitiful sarcasm is brought to you by: Humorphan. The coping mechanism strong enough for three Presidential debates.
    posted by petebest at 4:04 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    The NATO budget and US security obligations in Europe pretty clearly suggest otherwise.

    Have we really started repeating Trumpian talking points here? The NATO budget is calculated on the basis of gross national income and other countries are paying what they agreed to pay:
    If Trump is talking about the direct spending to fund NATO, he’s essentially wrong.

    The U.S. share is calculated on the basis of gross national income — the total domestic and foreign output claimed by residents of a country — and adjusted regularly. Currently that would be about 22 percent, compared to about 15 percent for Germany, 11 percent for France, 10 percent for the United Kingdom, 8 percent for Italy, 7 percent for Canada, and so forth...

    Despite Trump’s claim that the United States is spending “billions and billions” on NATO, Defense Department budget documents show the annual direct contribution is under $500 million a year.


    The only way this claim begins to make any sense is if you count all defense spending. I would argue that the US's giant military-industrial complex is the bigger reason for its military spending rather than pressure from its European allies to maintain the level it currently does. It could cut way back and still be more than prepared to defend its NATO allies and I have not heard any indication that its allies feel differently.
    posted by peacheater at 4:08 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    I'm considering noping out of the debate and just hearing it from you guys. I know it's kind of ridiculous but I am actually starting to get incredibly agitated just hearing Trump's voice, and I'm just not sure I can hack this debate, especially if it gets as insane as I suspect it will.

    Corb I've been the same way with listening to Trump the whole election. I also don't do live competition type things well at all. (One of the main reasons I barely ever watch team sports).
    So the last two debates I've had a live stream tab open with the sound off and the debate thread open.
    This way I don't have to watch but if something happens that I feel like I should watch it's there waiting.
    I've only tabbed to the livestream a couple of times.
    After it's over because clips come up so fast on you tube it's easy enough to choose the highlights to watch. I found I'm okay watching Trumps clips if I have an idea of what he's said in them.
    posted by Jalliah at 4:08 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I'm considering noping out of the debate and just hearing it from you guys. I know it's kind of ridiculous but I am actually starting to get incredibly agitated just hearing Trump's voice, and I'm just not sure I can hack this debate, especially if it gets as insane as I suspect it will.

    I skipped the last one and felt pretty good about it. The hard part was the news coverage the next day, the very worst parts of the shitshow are repeated over and over without much context. It was all chair humping, over-the-shoulder lurking, and you'd be in jail-ing. But I think it helped my sanity to skip the town hall debate.
    posted by peeedro at 4:09 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Ivana...Ivanka

    Let's call the whole thing off.
    posted by spitbull at 4:10 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]



    Former Prince Minister of Canada Jean Chretien (twitter): "there are pills to help you with pneumonia, but apparently there's no pill against stupidity."

    This is a horrible tease.

    Jean Chretian, the inventor of pepper spray steak, does not have a twitter account.

    Nardwuar The Human Serviette does though.
    posted by srboisvert at 4:10 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    I'm considering noping out of the debate and just hearing it from you guys.

    The problem with that is, if I don't watch it, something really terrible will happen.

    o.O

    noreallyimeanit

    O.o
    posted by invincible summer at 4:11 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    STOPIT
    posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:12 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Anybody want a peanut?
    posted by kirkaracha at 4:14 PM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    I'll be watching. I have a lovely pot of homemade chicken noodle soup on the stove and plenty of popcorn. I've got this.
    posted by Sophie1 at 4:15 PM on October 19, 2016


    Have we really started repeating Trumpian talking points here?

    The Trumpian point is that everyone else better pay up their 2% or we walk, which is insane, and also much different than the pretty inarguable point that the US is the "leader" of NATO, and the also inarguable point that disproportional US defense spending benefits our allies in Europe across the board.

    There's a reason people across the world are so concerned about the US election and Trump taking over the US military, and not as much about right wing ascendance in Hungary or Poland.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 4:16 PM on October 19, 2016


    I am happily skipping this debate, too. I'm more than done with listening to or watching Trump, and my hat is off to Hillary for continuing to handle him with grit and courage.

    But it would be WONDERFUL to see a new thread so I can witness the debate through you intrepid people from a safe remove. This one is at the too big to work length at this point, more than 2 hours before the orange fuhrer starts spewing.
    posted by bearwife at 4:16 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Dear Too Ticky,

    I do not believe in American exceptionalism, but a lot of others do. I believe we need to take the steps to secure our world, and our world's health, and do what we can to help shore up the economic systems, or make new economic systems, to secure the vulnerable. I am well aware that having a strong military is not necessarily leadership, and doing the bidding of business militarily, is criminal. We are a nation that uses a lot of the world's resources. I would be perfectly happy to clean up our act environmentally and for the most part stay home, and out of others stuff. There are factions in this nation that act like we are, obligated to mess with things, and make them "our" way, pfffft! What way would that be? I love our diverse nation. We are one among many.

    I am glad you Europeans are more closely knit now, than you have been historically. I hope you stay that way. Every nation enjoys a win, every nation enjoys the feeling they are the best at certain things, then I hope we all find a way to live peacefully in diversity, and love it.

    Regards,
    Oyéah
    posted by Oyéah at 4:17 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Debate post goes live in about an hour.
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:18 PM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    That said, we have the Buzzfeed dude saying this happened and... that's the sum total of it. Unless a bunch more people come forward saying similar things I'm pretty okay with ignoring the Buzzfeed dude.

    The Buzzfeed dude is comedian Chelsea Peretti's brother. Chelsea Peretti is totally amazing and I'd believe anything she says, so by the transitive property I choose to believe this.
    posted by bluecore at 4:19 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    My whole house smells like tacos. Trying very hard to wait.
    posted by Jalliah at 4:19 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    I'll be watching. Though it's incredibly stressful, i feel much more in command of information within and about the debate as a whole than if I simply tried to make sense of the next day's fragmented, piecemeal spin cycle. I like to for
    I own impressions of what happened moment by moment. The highlights-reel version just doesn't provide the wider context.
    posted by Miko at 4:21 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    I wish I could split screen this, to watch Mefi and the debate, I will work on this.
    posted by Oyéah at 4:22 PM on October 19, 2016


    Nothing could induce me to look upon the Cheeto. I'll be watching the thread instead. It's like going to a movie, facing the back of the theater, and inferring what's happening onscreen from the looks of horror and dismay on the faces in the audience.

    It's also kind of like fighting a Gorgon by looking only at its reflection in a shield. Thanks to all of you for serving as the shield.
    posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:24 PM on October 19, 2016 [14 favorites]


    I'm noping out - it's gonna be an Ambien night for me, and early to rise tomorrow. I find that getting my debate news secondhand is better for my nerves.
    posted by Rosie M. Banks at 4:24 PM on October 19, 2016


    There's a reason people across the world are so concerned about the US election and Trump taking over the US military, and not as much about right wing ascendance in Hungary or Poland.

    Speaking as a person from a different country, the number 1 reason people are concerned about the US election is because the US has a tendency to go super aggressive when you have a Republican President and invade other countries. You have nukes and you've used them before - it's not something I'd like to gamble on, given Trump's statements on the subject. It's not really because we see you as our defender or something like that. There may be a little bit of that for countries in Europe, but mostly the world is scared of US aggression and what it would be like with a xenophobic bully as President.
    posted by peacheater at 4:25 PM on October 19, 2016 [14 favorites]


    I wish I could split screen this, to watch Mefi and the debate, I will work on this.

    XMonad on Fedora 24
    posted by mikelieman at 4:25 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    We doing this here or new thread? I got a handle of Jameson, pastrami provolone sammiches with salad, a little grass, I gotta work tomorrow so I'm out as soon as it is over. The force will be with me. Always.
    posted by vrakatar at 4:26 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    I know a lot of people have said this, but thank whowhatever for Metafilter. I don't feel so alone when I go through this with all of you. Because of you, I have been able to tell my (very concerned) mother that Clinton's Got This with facts and confidence to offset the "news," which would have her believe it's a horse race. This has been the worst summer of my life, culminating in several concurrent shitshows, and I am comforted that I get to go through this particular shitshow with all of you.
    posted by thebrokedown at 4:26 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Kellyanne Conway and Malik Obama. This is totally, as Chuck Todd put it, "some sort of weird birther play"

    Bonus: Conway to Kilmeade: "We have taken a little bit of a hit." It's just a flesh wound I presume?
    posted by zachlipton at 4:26 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Powerful Evangelical Women Split From Male Church Leaders to Slam Trump
    Despite their disappointment, women Christian leaders see some light at the end of the tunnel, and they hope that this election will finally separate evangelicals who misuse faith for partisan ends from those seeking to advance the cause of Christ. As Katelyn Beaty said, “my hope is that more Christian men will stand up for their friends, wives, daughters, coworkers, and siblings in Christ and refuse to align themselves with a leader who is and will continue to be bad news for half the human population.”
    posted by zakur at 4:26 PM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    Former Prince Minister of Canada Jean Chretien

    Also know as the Purple Minister
    posted by Hairy Lobster at 4:26 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Conflating "leadership" with "being in charge" is, generally, not the kind of behavior you see in people who are good leaders.
    posted by Kid Charlemagne at 4:26 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Next election, debate guests need to be limited to immediate family only.

    How would this work? Trump would simply serially marry anyone he wanted to invite.
    posted by sebastienbailard at 4:27 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    We had tacos for dinner through sheer serendipity but as with all the other debates, my second hand embarrassment can't handle actually watching it, so I'll leave it to you folks to be my pinhole camera. The previous two I followed minute by minute but I think tonight I'll spool up Subnautica and go on a quest for that last moon pool fragment I need. I'll catch up periodically as the vagaries of an ocean planet with frequent nightfalls permit. I'm just over this gross shitshow of Trump's odious dominance displays.
    posted by soren_lorensen at 4:28 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    My debate kit: 3 bombers of IPA + 1 bag popcorn
    posted by kirkaracha at 4:28 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    invincible summer: The problem with that is, if I don't watch it, something really terrible will happen.

    o.O

    noreallyimeanit

    O.o


    So you're the equivalent of the 108 guy on Lost Season 2
    posted by kurumi at 4:30 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    My debate prep is an adequate amount of Lokos.
    posted by peeedro at 4:31 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]



    I just found half a bottle of Bailey's in my closet... (It's been there for maybe 3 months. Still okay?"


    So I guess it's Bailey's, tacos, cheese popcorn and chocolate cupcakes with orange icing for my debate dinner.

    I'm weird.
    posted by Jalliah at 4:31 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    > Hey did y'all see Egg won a poll in Utah?

    Well, I just dropped in to say "I told you so" since I have believed that someone like McMullin could take Utah since this summer when I visited a number of relatives in Utah and discovered how deep their hatred and anger towards Trump ran. Among folks who are typically 90+% Republican voters, I didn't hear anyone expressing a shred of support for Trump. Every time his name was mentioned, VERY strong anger. Yet, nobody liked Clinton or Johnson, either. A perfect setup for someone like McMullin to come along and take the state.

    However, it looks like I never bothered to document this on an election thread until October 8th, so hardly worth bragging about.

    On the other hand, I called the Trump/Putin thing back in February.

    I'll take my piece of cake now, thank you . . .
    posted by flug at 4:31 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    So I guess it's Bailey's, tacos, cheese popcorn and chocolate cupcakes with orange icing for my debate dinner.

    I'm weird.


    Meh. Given everything thus far, what's weird anymore?
    posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:33 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    I already ate dinner, ( EGGplant parm sandwich ) but I have a handle of Wild Turkey 101 and I've got a pre-debate hot bath drawn in my clawfoot tub, and there's some apple pie, and the metal bowl and whisk are in the freezer waiting to make whipped cream.
    posted by mikelieman at 4:34 PM on October 19, 2016


    @KellyannePolls: Our #debate2016 guests tonight include Marcus Luttrell, Pat Smith, and the legendary Wayne Newton. [real]

    Scott Baio couldn't make it?
    posted by airish at 4:34 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    All I have is bottom-shelf gin. I do have powdered horchata mix... please advise if I"m about to make a horrible mistake
    posted by tivalasvegas at 4:35 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Probably got an acting gig [fake]
    posted by drezdn at 4:36 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Gentle reminder for the people in these threads who can't keep them straight: IVANA is the ex-wife. IVANKA is the daughter.

    And Trump has been on record as thinking they BOTH are hot.
    posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:36 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Scott Baio couldn't make it?

    You ever tried to buy a flight from LAX to LAS on short notice? It's hard to splurge when your residual check from Nick at Nite is a few quarters.
    posted by Talez at 4:36 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    @KellyannePolls: Our #debate2016 guests tonight include Marcus Luttrell, Pat Smith, and the legendary Wayne Newton. [real]

    "Horses" is my favorite Patti Smith song.
    posted by mikelieman at 4:37 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    I just ordered roast beef sandwiches from the deli, I've got to see if they have guacamole when I pick them up in a few minutes.
    posted by T.D. Strange at 4:38 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    ::crosses fingers that Wayne Newton turns out to be just a lip syncing Matthew Broderick::
    posted by downtohisturtles at 4:39 PM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Next election, debate guests need to be limited to immediate family only.

    How would this work? Trump would simply serially marry anyone he wanted to invite.


    Don't even joke about Trump being involved in the next election!!!! &:-# (that's me with a stressed mind and swears coming out of my mouth)
    posted by sallybrown at 4:39 PM on October 19, 2016


    Hairy Lobster: Former Prince Minister of Canada Jean Chretien

    Also know as the Purple Minister


    That's what happens during the Shawinigan Handshake.
    posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:40 PM on October 19, 2016


    Fittingly, my partner and I settled tonight's dinner question by convening the electoral college. The polls were close, but in the end he had more delegates for pizza than I did for tacos, so pizza it shall be.

    Question: if I fold my slice in half so as to cradle tomato and cheese in a valley of flat bread, can I join the mefi taco party, or would that exhibit a trumpian disregard for reality?
    posted by Westringia F. at 4:40 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    ahhhhh I was just about to make a minister of handshakes joke ahhhh
    posted by tivalasvegas at 4:41 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    if I fold my slice in half so as to cradle tomato and cheese in a valley of flat bread

    IF?
    posted by mikelieman at 4:41 PM on October 19, 2016 [10 favorites]


    I know it's a couple hours old at this point, but:

    I have to say that Ivanka Trump thing, if true, shocks me in a way that nothing else has this election.

    I flatly do not believe it. It seems like an attempt to shame her in a super gross sexual & racist way and I feel gross even talking about it.


    Why is this shocking or flat-out unbelievable? I used to hang out in NYC with people in approximately this social circle (specifically, bankers) at about this time and this is totally how they talked. Specifically including similar "politically incorrect" comments about race, sex, etc., simply to be edgy and get a rise out of people.

    I definitely believe it. I don't defend Ivanka for it of course, but I believe it happened.
    posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 4:42 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Tacos? Pfft. I fortified myself with a delicious sushurrito...and I'm hoping to be in a food coma by the start of the debate.
    posted by pxe2000 at 4:42 PM on October 19, 2016


    Question: if I fold my slice in half so as to cradle tomato and cheese in a valley of flat bread, can I join the mefi taco party, or would that exhibit a trumpian disregard for reality?

    No. It's like Jews on Passover. No leavened bread.
    posted by Talez at 4:43 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    All I have is bottom-shelf gin. I do have powdered horchata mix... please advise if I"m about to make a horrible mistake

    you are about to make a horrible mistake

    even bottom-shelf gin with just an ice cube in it will be better
    posted by burgerrr at 4:43 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Bette Midler: The new Republican logo...
    posted by zachlipton at 4:44 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    for those who want a little levity with the debate tonight - Brian Lehrer, NPR host, has launched the idea that people try livetweeting their reactions entirely via Bruce Springsteen lyrics. Bruce retweeted the original idea, and thus #brucethedebate is now a thing.

    (Lots of people are going with "She's The One".)
    posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:44 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Bette Midler: The new Republican logo...

    Yeah. His name is Donald Trunk.
    posted by Talez at 4:45 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I kind of made a taco by scooping goldfish with a pringle and then eating it in one go. *hits rock bottom*
    posted by sallybrown at 4:45 PM on October 19, 2016 [10 favorites]


    metafilter to the rescue, thanks burgerrr

    my husband is convinced that the ginchata will be okay though so I'll make him one and observe closely
    posted by tivalasvegas at 4:45 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Bruce retweeted the original idea, and thus #brucethedebate is now a thing.

    Trolling Christie, I presume? Well played.
    posted by tivalasvegas at 4:47 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    > It's like Jews on Passover.

    Come to think of it, I do expect to shout dayenu! a lot tonight.
    posted by Westringia F. at 4:48 PM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    if I fold my slice in half so as to cradle tomato and cheese in a valley of flat bread...

    ...you might be a New Yorker.
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:48 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]



    I have no willpower I could not wait and I am eating a taco right now and it is so yummy.
    posted by Jalliah at 4:48 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Yellow rice on the stove right now for any yellow dog Democrats out there.

    Canadian whiskey with Canada Dry is the cocktail just poured.

    Godspeed, America.
    posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:49 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    #brucethedebate is now a thing.

    You have made me soooooo happy!!
    posted by Miko at 4:49 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    a folded pizza is just an Italian taco and they're also both sandwiches love you MetaFilter see you in the next thread
    posted by prize bull octorok at 4:50 PM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Malik Obama wants to forcibly deport Mexican immigrants from America and drive the Jewish immigrants in Israel into the sea. Conway likes him for his simple and direct message on immigration.
    posted by humanfont at 4:50 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I'm sure this has been linked fifty times, but: if you can't bear the trauma of the fullblast firehose of horror that will be the debate, you could gaze upon it with the sound off and listen to this: http://www.30days30songs.com/
    I love Aimee Mann's best. I've listened to it about a hundred times. I feel like it's what he would be hearing himself think if he had a hope of hearing himself think over his own constant jetengine tweetroar. It makes me a little snifflysad for... I don't know exactly. For somebody. Trump? Me? The species? Hard to say. But probably that last one, yeah.

    More about it on the Trumpcast (http://www.slate.com/articles/podcasts/trumpcast.html).
    posted by Don Pepino at 4:50 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    I have no willpower I could not wait and I am eating a taco right now and it is so yummy.

    Self-care is a priority in these stressful times.
    posted by mikelieman at 4:50 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I mailed in my ballot today and it was a HUGE RELIEF for some reason.

    Went out for breakfast with my trumpist/tea-party Mom last weekend and she seemed to shift...although very uncomfortably.

    She was talking crap about many issues not realizing that the Republican party was the root problem of those issues. Because we were face to face, she couldn't just hang up like she usually does when we're on the phone. I was eating an All American Slam (Denny's) so I was pretty chill and just told her a little story about Metafilter and the debate threads.

    Essentially I just described how diverse Metafilter is, how everyone; racially, culturally and sexually is represented here and how the MODS handle things when it gets a little hot...or fucked up even.

    I told her that I thought Metafilter was representative of the FUTURE. I told her about our very own CORB, and how while she may be a hard-core Republican...here in this very liberal and incredibly diverse community, is still very much loved and respected.

    That's when my Mom looked down at her eggs and her demeanor softened. She just looked at me like she finally understood what I've been saying since the early 80s.

    She then lamented about globalization and the homogenization of culture and race. I just said that it's the future and that we can embrace it or be left behind.

    I don't know how important it is here in CA, but I've been doing LOTS of unofficial GOTV and I'm exhausted.
    posted by 1980sPunkersForHillary.com at 4:50 PM on October 19, 2016 [38 favorites]


    Tivalasvegas, I have come to really like you over these threads, and I fear you are making a terrible mistake. Please don't do it.
    posted by Sophie1 at 4:51 PM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    What the fuck do you need? Aziz Ansari to millennials.

    The Hill: Poll: 1 in 4 millennials prefer meteor strike to Clinton, Trump

    Gen Y is going to be the new Boomers once in power, calling it now
    posted by Apocryphon at 4:53 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Gen X is the new Gen X.
    posted by Justinian at 4:54 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    ChurchHatesTucker, you are definitely not the only one with skittles tonight. I had them as a treat for the first debate when I hosted a viewing party for friends, and now my kids have started to insist we have candy every time there's a debate. We just got back from a candy run.

    Me: I'm having a gin and tonic instead. Maybe two.
    posted by Sublimity at 4:54 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    My prediction for tonight is that Trump finally loses control, reveals himself to be the Great Evil, takes the form of a vast sphere of fire and hatred and zooms out into space, like in The Fifth Element, forcing a black President to mobilize a multi-racial team of men and women to save the day...like in The Fifth Element.
    posted by The Card Cheat at 4:55 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Mark Cuban saying right now he knows of two women with creepy Trump stories: one used to date a friend of Cuban's, Trump intentionally walked in on her during a massage when she was naked under a sheet. The other is someone he doesn't know very well who said Trump made a nasty comment to her in an elevator. Neither will come forward.

    Giuliani bring up Bill Clinton. Cuban immediately says "And if he was running, it would be an issue."

    Cuban is completely owning Rudy despite Rudy's attempt to talk over him.
    posted by sallybrown at 4:55 PM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    I just had a delicious half roast chicken within tostones and yucca/chorizo croquettes and a Cristal (Beer of the Andes) at my favorite Peruvian-Chinese place, with a Native American rapper I'm pals with. Our Dominican waiter recommended the Peruvian beer. The place was full of people of all colors and speaking many languages.

    In short, everything great about America in one place. It was a feast of fucking diversity. And we were all there for the $10.50 half roast chicken, which many consider to be world class. (Zagat included.)

    I really don't want to watch this and ruin a lovely evening.
    posted by spitbull at 4:56 PM on October 19, 2016 [12 favorites]


    "I WAS WITH RONALD REAGAN WHEN HE CUT TAXES!" Rudy Giuliani
    posted by sallybrown at 4:56 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]




    1980sPunkersForHillary.com: I've been doing LOTS of unofficial GOTV and I'm exhausted.

    Yeah, I started doing the official kind because the unofficial stuff was already a part-time job and I figured I should at least get some free buttons or something for my efforts.
    You're fighting the good fight. Hang in there!

    All this talk of tacos is making me wish I'd made guacamole today. Stupid diet. I'll have to give myself a pass on Election Day, although in a 12-hour shift I'm not sure I'll have much time for eating.
    posted by Superplin at 4:58 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    The tone CNN is talking in their debate run-up is really putting me off. Very "in THIS corner, we have....." like they're gearing up for a boxing match instead of a debate.

    I know Trump has gone full-on circus-act, but I would appreciate it if the media could at least try for a modicum of gravitas.
    posted by invincible summer at 4:59 PM on October 19, 2016


    My prediction for tonight is that Trump finally loses control, reveals himself to be the Great Evil, takes the form of a vast sphere of fire and hatred and zooms out into space, like in The Fifth Element, forcing a black President to mobilize a multi-racial team of men and women to save the day...like in The Fifth Element.

    And your Multipass will be the only acceptable voter ID at the polls.
    posted by zakur at 4:59 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    THREAD! THREAD! THREAD!
    posted by vrakatar at 5:00 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    As long as we send Hillary in to "negotiate."
    posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:01 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    I hope Hillary gets to prove she's an honest to God Ninja! Waaaaaah! She had better not wear a wig, and had better wear a flak jacket. I hope she has extra secret service, Hamas in the house! I would love it if Barack Obama, attended the debate.
    posted by Oyéah at 5:01 PM on October 19, 2016


    @BenjySarlin:
    I did not expect the election to end with angry Democrats demanding Republicans acknowledge President Obama's half-brother has Hamas ties


    Wait 'til the pro-Trump Russophiles realize that Tsarlet Putin is in bed with both Hamas and the Iranians. Now that's the real horseshoe theory.
    posted by Apocryphon at 5:03 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    The tone CNN is talking in their debate run-up is really putting me off. Very "in THIS corner, we have....." like they're gearing up for a boxing match instead of a debate.

    I know Trump has gone full-on circus-act, but I would appreciate it if the media could at least try for a modicum of gravitas.


    The fact it's in Vegas...isn't lost on the rest of the world. Not to say that Nevada isn't a place where people are and that should be a locus of debate. But maybe the theme should be "Water conservation and climate change?"
    posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:05 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Tivalasvegas, I have come to really like you over these threads, and I fear you are making a terrible mistake. Please don't do it.

    I'm suddenly tempted to do it-- knowing, in this moment, how Donald feels when he dangles his finger over the 'post' button, taunting Conway: "that's right Kellyanne, I'm about to tweet again... oh it's bad... it's gonna make the cat lovers of America very very upset"
    posted by tivalasvegas at 5:05 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    I'm having shakshouka, which my mom declares is "interesting," and being glad to live in a time where I could even hear of such a thing, and sort of feeling (just a little) sad for Americans who would sacrifice all the wonderful things that immigrants bring to our country to keep us somehow "pure," haha.
    posted by thebrokedown at 5:05 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Here's a one-minute distraction while you're all waiting for the new thread. Somewhere in the thousands of comments above there was a link to someone's twitter saying, and I am definitely paraphrasing: "Hey there's something new and important coming out SOON, watch this space for updates" or whatever. You know, like has happened a dozen times already. Anyway, my search terms are failing me so if you know which comment it was and if you know whether or not anything ever came of it, I'd love to know too.
    posted by komara at 5:05 PM on October 19, 2016


    THREAD! THREAD! THREAD!

    ~half an hour
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:06 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Twitter catches Rudy pulling the old "I'm going to touch this lady's arm and MAKE her listen to me"
    posted by sallybrown at 5:06 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    I would love it if Barack Obama, attended the debate.

    I imagine he's sitting on the couch, enjoying a beer with family and eating that sweet, sweet, White House Popcorn.
    posted by mikelieman at 5:06 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]



    THREAD! THREAD! THREAD!

    ~half an hour


    You're worse than Elon Musk!
    posted by mrnutty at 5:07 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    The tone CNN is talking in their debate run-up is really putting me off. Very "in THIS corner, we have....." like they're gearing up for a boxing match instead of a debate.

    Esquire/Spy already have you covered: CNN's Debate Promo Feels a Lot Like an Ad for a Title Fight, Check out a mash-up of Clinton/Trump/Mayweather/Pacquiao.
    posted by zachlipton at 5:07 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    My mom came over for dinner tonight and brought over her absentee ballot. She wanted me to make sure she didn't do anything to accidentally invalidate it. That's 2 for my own personal GOTV in Ohio.
    posted by amarynth at 5:07 PM on October 19, 2016 [11 favorites]


    My prediction for tonight is that Trump finally loses control, reveals himself to be the Great Evil, takes the form of a vast sphere of fire and hatred and zooms out into space,

    "... then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the Meketrex supplicants, they chose a new form for him: that of a giant Sloar! Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Sloar that day, I can tell you!"
    posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:08 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]



    ~half an hour


    HOLD FAST!
    posted by drezdn at 5:08 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Unlikely prediction: In his opening remarks, Trump announces that he will not participate in this rigged mainstream-media event and then walks off stage. Clinton's deadpan side-glance at the camera becomes a viral gif and results in a landslide victory and Democrat senate majority.
    posted by Taft at 5:09 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    @Phil_Mattingly
    Rudy Giuliani just brought up "Bill Clinton's illegitimate children" on air and welp, that's where we are I guess...
    posted by chris24 at 5:10 PM on October 19, 2016


    Trump finally loses control, reveals himself to be the Great Evil

    Last time he literally said that he would hold show-trials that would result in Hillary Clinton being thrown in prison for crimes against Amurka. What else does he have to do, rip off his fleshmask and reveal himself to be a lizard person?
    posted by Sara C. at 5:11 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    I'm watching Battle of the Planets on Youtube. Nyeah.
    posted by valkane at 5:12 PM on October 19, 2016


    Has anyone made a "No man can beat Donald Trump" joke yet this election?
    posted by drezdn at 5:12 PM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    Turner Classic Movies is going all out political tonight with "Fail Safe", "Advise and Consent", "Seven Days in May", "Gabriel Over the White House" and "First Family". All sorts of fun.
    posted by Death and Gravity at 5:13 PM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    I confess that I blew off making my own tacos and instead bought take-out chimichangas from the lovely immigrant-family-owned restaurant in my little West Michigan* town. So take that, bigly bigot. Plus I have frijoles and chips, hard cider, beer, Dr. Pepper, popcorn, and peanut M&Ms at the ready should they be needed.

    *Big shoutout to our Michigander girlfrien' Jennifer Granholm on MSNBC, woo hoo!
    posted by FelliniBlank at 5:13 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Last Presidential debate until 2020 when Hillary debates Gordon Ramsay!
    posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:13 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Just got called a bitch in the Hillary Clinton subreddit, reminding me again why I don't usually wander to those parts.
    posted by peacheater at 5:14 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Well, it's quarter past one in the morning here, and I have to go to bed. I experience the debates entirely through your descriptions, and the late-night comedy round-ups posted on YouTube, so I look forward to waking up to a riveting description of what promises to be a world-class shitshow for the ages.

    Good luck. We're all counting on you.
    posted by Grangousier at 5:16 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Debate post goes live in about an hour.
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:18 PM on October 19 [7 favorites +] [!]

    THREAD! THREAD! THREAD!
    ~half an hour
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:06 PM on October 19
    What kind of time cube bullshit is this?!
    posted by zakur at 5:16 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    Unlikely prediction: In his opening remarks, Trump announces that he will not participate in this rigged mainstream-media event and then walks off stage. Clinton's deadpan side-glance at the camera becomes a viral gif and results in a landslide victory and Democrat senate majority.

    Telling that even our wildest fantasies don't retain the House.
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:17 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    What kind of time cube bullshit is this?!

    What part of "about" confuses you?
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:18 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    Listening to Night Vale this evening has put me in what I prefer to believe is exactly the right state of mind for this debate.
    posted by Pallas Athena at 5:19 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I thought "Even Feral Cats have to deal with gentrification" was the latest election thread. It's a great headline for an election thread.

    And the first comment seemed about right: "Really, I think we need to do something about the feral developer population. Trap, neuter, shots, release is not helping."

    But then there was a bunch of stuff about cats and birds and I caught on.

    The ~30 comments shoulda tipped me off.
    posted by notyou at 5:20 PM on October 19, 2016 [15 favorites]


    I've been feeling really odd about that Peretti tweet about Ivanka's purported racist crudity, and I think I've finally figured out why. Are we supposed to believe that Ivanka Trump just blurted out something about uncircumcised cocks without any prior context, like into a discussion about the weather or which restaurant has the best brunch? Because I don't believe that, not for an instant. I find it a lot more likely that someone in that conversation was engaging her in gross and offensive banter in an attempt to make her feel uncomfortable, and she responded by upping the offensiveness ante in an attempt to get some of that power back, in the manner of aggrieved 24 year old women everywhere. (Source: I have been a 24 year old woman.)

    Does it excuse her for using that word? Nope, it absolutely does not, it's a gross word and it's pretty telling that that's where she went in an effort to be offensive. (Assuming both that my theory is correct, and that the entire incident happened as described.) But I would LOVE to hear from Peretti about where the conversation was going immediately before Ivanka dropped this particular bon mot, assuming that his outstanding memory didn't conveniently elide that particular bit of context.
    posted by KathrynT at 5:21 PM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    Well, if Hillary would just transmute into the Fiery Phoenix, this shit would be done. And we could all live in peace. G-Force!
    posted by valkane at 5:22 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Has anyone started a debate thread or were we all waiting for someone else to do it?
    posted by Sophie1 at 5:22 PM on October 19, 2016


    It Has Been Arranged.
    posted by Justinian at 5:24 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Where's the debate thread is the new "are we there yet?" How many times can we ask before cortex pulls this thread over and we get lost in a subdivision and everybody starts crying?
    posted by zachlipton at 5:24 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    Trump is kind of Zoltar, isn't he? Autocratic, all bluster but no brass, weirdly vain. So if Hilary and Obama are Mark and Jason, who is Keeyop?

    And who is 7-Zark-7?
    posted by Shepherd at 5:24 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Tucker keeps hinting around.
    posted by valkane at 5:24 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Why You Should Watch Tonight's Wildly Unnecessary Debate
    From a good-citizenship standpoint, you should watch tonight's third and final presidential debate between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. From a practical, "I could be spending time relating to my kids" standpoint, no debate in history has been less necessary.
    posted by kirkaracha at 5:25 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    #BruceTheThread
    posted by ZeusHumms at 5:25 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Has anyone started a debate thread or were we all waiting for someone else to do it?

    Yes, and no. Mods want it to go up close to the event.
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:26 PM on October 19, 2016


    So thanks to y'all not being able to stop talking about tacos, I'm on my way to my local Mexican restaurant. So I will be at the least wildly behind on the debate thread. I'm ok with my priorities.
    posted by threeturtles at 5:26 PM on October 19, 2016


    Telling that even our wildest fantasies don't retain the House.

    An entirely understandable, but genuinely difficult point, ChurchHatesTucker.

    We've spent a lot of time this year talking about what is possible to do in the current political climate, etc. But my fear is that even if Clinton meets the highest demands of the most bro-ish of Bernie supporters, surpasses Obama's record for integrity and statesmanship, handles world affairs with a deft yet firm touch.... She might be everything we expect, and still not be able to achieve everything this country needs.

    I'm really, really glad that Obama has said his priority after leaving office is gerrymandering reform. We need a government that works; and right now, the Congress is split and dysfunctional, the federal court system is understaffed and over burdened, and the executive branch is hamstrung by legislative stagnation.

    It seems that fascism isn't coming this year. I hope that in 2020, we don't look back on this year with nostalgia.
    posted by tivalasvegas at 5:27 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    My very first tarte tatin is cooling on the counter in preparation for standing the ultimate trial of any upside down dessert, being flipped onto a platter.

    Re Ivanka, even as someone who hates her it's obviously a dumb thing she said while drunk that she hopefully regrets. Use of the "m" word unironically says to me that her parents in no way equipped her to talk about race. Which, duh. "What kinds of penises have you seen" is fairly tame late night NYC dive bar girl talk in my experience.
    posted by Sara C. at 5:28 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I love this german on Cspan right now.

    "Germans see this debate as two matadors in the coliseum..."
    posted by Annika Cicada at 5:28 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    New thread should go go live at 8:36 PM est +/- about 18 minutes. ;-)
    posted by zakur at 5:28 PM on October 19, 2016


    I've been feeling really odd about that Peretti tweet about Ivanka's purported racist crudity, and I think I've finally figured out why. Are we supposed to believe that Ivanka Trump just blurted out something about uncircumcised cocks without any prior context, like into a discussion about the weather or which restaurant has the best brunch? Because I don't believe that, not for an instant. I find it a lot more likely that someone in that conversation was engaging her in gross and offensive banter in an attempt to make her feel uncomfortable, and she responded by upping the offensiveness ante in an attempt to get some of that power back, in the manner of aggrieved 24 year old women everywhere. (Source: I have been a 24 year old woman.)

    I've been a 24 year old woman too and yes I do believe it's possible that she said that because I've have been around women, in a party atmosphere, especially when drinks are flowing that have made comments about cocks with not much motivation expect that the convo was about women and men.
    posted by Jalliah at 5:28 PM on October 19, 2016


    How much closer we gotta get? I can smell trumps aftershave already.
    posted by valkane at 5:29 PM on October 19, 2016


    I hit 100 in my phone banking for Hillary, then made comfort food for dinner: mac and cheese (real mac and cheese, I'm sad that I have to specify this), broccoli, and the last of the tomatoes. And now we wait.

    I have to say, my phone banking has been a singularly inefficient means of contacting voters. I think probably only 5 of those 100 calls were answered. From the campaign's point of view this is all free labor so there's no downside, but there must be a better way to use that labor.
    posted by HotToddy at 5:30 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Oh I totally believe that she said it. I just don't believe that she was the only person in the conversation talking like that.
    posted by KathrynT at 5:30 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    Jesus it's like Christmas morning with my brother with you people. "Mooooooom, it's 6:10am can't we open our presents yet?!?!"
    posted by Justinian at 5:30 PM on October 19, 2016 [7 favorites]


    Here's a one-minute distraction while you're all waiting for the new thread. Somewhere in the thousands of comments above there was a link to someone's twitter saying, and I am definitely paraphrasing: "Hey there's something new and important coming out SOON, watch this space for updates" or whatever. You know, like has happened a dozen times already. Anyway, my search terms are failing me so if you know which comment it was and if you know whether or not anything ever came of it, I'd love to know too.

    It was Rick Wilson. I haven't heard any updates but he posts most everything on his twitter account.

    posted by colt45 at 5:31 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    HotToddy: You might think so but the most important thing a campaign can do is to talk to someone and get them to vote. How else do you do that except by calling or knocking on doors?
    posted by R343L at 5:31 PM on October 19, 2016


    And we're live. Thanks TUCK!
    posted by valkane at 5:32 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    New FPP, FFS!
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:33 PM on October 19, 2016 [5 favorites]


    The new thread will be rigged.
    posted by humanfont at 5:33 PM on October 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


    I have said all kinds of things in my life. I have believed all kinds of things in my life. I have done all kinds of things, no cruelty, not enough joy, plenty of creating. I am the best person I have ever been. It is not for me to judge twenty somethings, or people under social pressure, and microscopes. I am so curious about the awful train wreck just around the corner...
    posted by Oyéah at 5:33 PM on October 19, 2016


    The Sanders campaign had text banking and at first that was fine but it got super annoying super fast.
    posted by soren_lorensen at 5:33 PM on October 19, 2016


    OMG NBC.

    I have the NBC Youtube live stream queued up. It just started playing and it was like a sports event. Ominous exciting music, head to head language, etc. Gah.
    posted by R343L at 5:33 PM on October 19, 2016


    It was Rick Wilson. I haven't heard any updates but he posts most everything on his twitter account.

    It also could have been Liz Mair fluffing some new story that didn't materialize.
    posted by Justinian at 5:33 PM on October 19, 2016


    Does it excuse her for using that word? Nope, it absolutely does not, it's a gross word and it's pretty telling that that's where she went in an effort to be offensive. (Assuming both that my theory is correct, and that the entire incident happened as described.) But I would LOVE to hear from Peretti about where the conversation was going immediately before Ivanka dropped this particular bon mot, assuming that his outstanding memory didn't conveniently elide that particular bit of context.

    He says in the article linked upthread that they were discussing circumcision and Ivanka noted she's never seen an uncircumcised cock. And neither had she seen...etc
    posted by sallybrown at 5:34 PM on October 19, 2016




    It also could have been Liz Mair fluffing some new story that didn't materialize.


    True. I do remember the Rick Wilson SOON tweet from yesterday, though.
    posted by colt45 at 5:36 PM on October 19, 2016


    Field report: canvassed again today--a larger and more spread out packet that I sadly had to turn in incomplete (the shame) because I had to go and pick up my kid from school. I found fewer people at home today than yesterday, but still mostly positive conversations with the people who were home. One guy told me that I could have had a wonderful conversation with his wife if she'd been at home, but he didn't vote for Democrats, he was smiling and pleasant about it, though. Two people enthusiastically shared that they had already turned in their ballots and I high fived them! We have the debate up on C-SPAN and made breakfast for dinner (does scrambled eggs inside a pancake count as a taco?). See you in the new thread.
    posted by danielleh at 5:40 PM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


    ##### ARCHIVE COMMAND EXECUTE #####

    ##### THREAD 162851 GOING OFFLINE #####

    ##### THREAD OFFLINE #####
    posted by PROD_TPSL at 5:41 PM on October 19, 2016 [8 favorites]


    Does anybody read the posts down here? #MeFiTradition
    posted by oneswellfoop at 5:43 PM on October 19, 2016 [15 favorites]


    Yes I would have done
    posted by Namlit at 5:48 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    Last?
    posted by invincible summer at 5:54 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I just want to tell you all good luck.
    We're all counting on you.
    posted by jclarkin at 5:59 PM on October 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


    And don't call me Shirley.
    posted by oneswellfoop at 6:02 PM on October 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


    Goodbye thread, I have enjoyed you as much as I can enjoy this kind of thing.
    posted by Joey Michaels at 6:08 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    (I dipped into Twitter and things seem to be going better than I feared. Wallace is being praised for sticking to policy. I will now venture into the current election thread. Allons-y!)
    posted by maudlin at 6:27 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    .... last?
    posted by invincible summer at 6:53 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    While You Were Watching The Debate, Trump Just Launched Trump TV

    In the minutes before the third and final Presidential debate, Donald Trump went live on Facebook in what may have been the inaugural broadcast of a forthcoming Trump News Network.

    A little after 8:30 P.M., Trump’s official Facebook page posted the link to the live video, offering up an alternative to the mainstream broadcast. The message: “If you’re tired of biased, mainstream media reporting (otherwise known as Crooked Hillary’s super PAC), tune into my Facebook Live broadcast. Starts at 8:30 EST/5:30 PST — you won’t want to miss it. Enjoy!”
    The broadcast quickly ballooned to around 200,000 concurrent viewers but quickly fell off to around 120,000. As of the middle of the debate, the feed was holding steady at around 170,000, trailing only the ABC News debate feed on the platform.

    The livestream featured punditry from retired Lieutenant General Michael Flynn and former Arizona Governor Jan Brewer and in place of commercials, the feed was interspersed with pro-Trump ads and a special message from Ivanka Trump. Looking more like public access than a glitzy cable news offering, the broadcast moved slowly between guests with at least one or two hot mic off moments where the hosts discussed where the next segment was headed. There were also hints of some surprise programming after the debate ends.

    posted by futz at 7:27 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    I guess no one watched the debate? Thread sure went quiet!

    lol
    posted by spitbull at 8:03 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    I don't know that I want to know what happened in the debate.

    It feels safe down here.

    Maybe I'll stay.
    posted by Scattercat at 11:48 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]


    No new thread! We just got this thread nicely broken in. It has character! It has patina.
    posted by um at 11:48 PM on October 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


    "What kinds of penises have you seen"

    All of them, Katie
    posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:50 AM on October 20, 2016 [6 favorites]


    A new election post is now live.
    posted by Wordshore at 2:17 PM on October 21, 2016


    But if you're Tehunding it you want this one next.
    posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:06 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]


    « Older Do you like grandpas? Do you like cribbage?   |   "On the other side of the screen, it all looks so... Newer »


    This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments