The disrespect of our ambitions and intellect
October 14, 2016 11:31 AM   Subscribe

Fifteen months ago, Donald declared and we commented; two months earlier, Hillary did likewise. And now, here we are near the end of an divisive and damaging election. As Donald's campaign struggles under many allegations [BBC] [NBC News] [Guardian] [New York Times] and increased conversation on abuse, Hillary pulls out a 7 point lead in a Fox poll, a gap in the Real Clear Politics poll average and a large victory chance in 538 (though, cautionary words about poll bounces). Michelle Obama spoke about the language of this election (FPP title from her speech) [BBC] [New Yorker] [Washington Post] and in The Guardian: "She lent her extraordinary ability to say what people are feeling to every English-speaking woman in the world". Elsewhere, Trump-stooge Chris Christie is facing a criminal summons and Utah could be a three-way race which leads to a small possibility of President Evan.

The ability to vote remains problematic for many. Hurricane Matthew has disrupted some eastern communities, while in many states, new rules impede previous and new voters. Suppression could stop 1.3 million people from voting in swing states, while 6.1 million Americans are forbidden to vote because of felony disenfranchisement. In Wisconsin for example, voter ID problems remain unresolved [PR Watch] [US News][Wisconsin Public Radio], while in Virginia the photo ID law is problematic [Daily Signal] [wset.com].

More positively, Facebook's four-day voter registration campaign has nudged more people to register [engadget] [fortune], while a federal judge extended Florida's voter registration by a week to October 18th [Guardian] [tampabay.com][International Business Times] and heavy voter registration is reported in Texas and Georgia.

Resources:
* Ballotpedia has a mass of election resources.
* Plan your election day; again from Ballotpedia, state-by-state poll opening and closing times.
* Voter information by lampshade...
* ...and more at vote.gov
* Election 2016: Restrictive Voting Laws by the Numbers by the Brennan Center for Justice.
* How to vote in every state by NoxAeternum.
* Voter Registration Deadlines, by Rock The Vote.
* U.S. Voting & Election Resources (list of links) by The Office of the Federal Register.

The odds currently remain in Hillary's favor; Predictwise and the spread of UK bookmakers. Predictwise also currently have the Senate as Democrat-controlled but the House remaining Republican. Astrologers remain divided on who will take the White House.

Please add context to comments so they make sense to current, future, and distant future, readers; also, use [real] and [fake] markers to reduce MeFite alarm. MetaFilter chat is an alternative channel. The wiki page has the inside track on MeFite quirks, while there's a MetaTalk for election logistics discussion.

The next debate FPP is in the works. Most recent election and debate FPPs:
* My saying is: We win and lose together
* (Debate) ♪♫ Don’t modulate the key then not debate with me!
* [ELECTION 2016] ♪♫ He’s never gon' be President now... ♪♫
* (VP debate) Send in your seconds, see if they can set the record straight
* [Election 2016] If you stand for nothing, what’ll you fall for?
* (Debate) Ask him a question: it glances off, he obfuscates, he dances.
* All FPPs tagged with Election2016.

And finally, here is what the electoral map looks like in Wisconsin.
posted by Wordshore (4623 comments total) 164 users marked this as a favorite
 
Thank you Wordshore! You are doing the Lord's work ;)
posted by lalex at 11:31 AM on October 14, 2016 [22 favorites]


Oh my lord, that Donald declared post from June of 2015. Oh my. How innocent and optimistic we all were, and all within 215 comments.
posted by komara at 11:35 AM on October 14, 2016 [40 favorites]




Reuters: Trump's missing donors: the people who work for him:
Only a dozen of an estimated 22,450 people employed at Trump's companies have donated more than $200 to the celebrity businessman's bid for the U.S. presidency, a Reuters review of federal campaign finance records through August shows. Those who gave less to either Trump's campaign or his joint fundraising committees would not have shown up in the review.

The contributors, including an office cleaner, a golf course groundskeeper, a bartender and an attorney, have given $5,298 to Trump's campaign, a fraction of the $112 million Trump's political operation has received from donors and joint fundraisers.
posted by palindromic at 11:36 AM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


PSA: Could someone please hire me for a new job soon so I can stop refreshing these threads + twitter constantly all day? Thanks.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:37 AM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


> Thank you Wordshore! You are doing the Lord's work ;)

And get down off that combine harvester!
posted by languagehat at 11:37 AM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


(Breaks bottle of champagne against monitor to christen thread)
posted by Senor Cardgage at 11:37 AM on October 14, 2016 [37 favorites]


Nothing is so full of hope and potential as freshly cut election thread, acres and acres of low cropped blue from here to the horizon.
posted by notyou at 11:38 AM on October 14, 2016 [79 favorites]


(I can't believe I'm here at the actual beginning of the thread!)

I put my ballot in the mail yesterday. On my block and a half walk from my work to where the post office is, I passed a cab with an add for a strip club on the top of it, walked past a store that sells bathtubs that has a huge floor to ceiling picture of a sexy mostly naked robo woman on a slab in front of a crowd of men...to sell bathtubs...on the wall, just down the escalator from the transit stop plastered every 3 feet with some woman's torso selling belly fat removal surgery.

I couldn't help noticing these things that surround me every day, and it was really weird trying to reconcile all of that when I was holding the ballot casting my vote for our first female President in my hand. What a world.
posted by phunniemee at 11:38 AM on October 14, 2016 [144 favorites]


Oh my lord, that Donald declared post from June of 2015. Oh my How innocent and optimistic we all were, and all within 215 comments.

I'm really, really looking forward to not having Donald to kick around anymore.
posted by nubs at 11:39 AM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Also the #repealthe22nd hashtag is starting to get a lot of traction.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 11:39 AM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


PSA: Could someone please hire me for a new job soon so I can stop refreshing these threads + twitter constantly all day? Thanks.

What profession are you? If you want Memail me.
posted by Talez at 11:39 AM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


PSA: Could someone please hire me for a new job soon so I can stop refreshing these threads + twitter constantly all day? Thanks.

Volunteer for Hillary.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:39 AM on October 14, 2016 [23 favorites]


Potomac Avenue, it definitely has occurred to me that I would not be nearly so unhealthily obsessed with the minute-to-minute minutiae of this election if I didn't have a desk job. I need to get back outside.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:39 AM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


I, for one, am looking forward to an inevitable "You won't have Donald Trump to kick around anymore" moment.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:13 AM on June 17, 2015 [5 favorites +] [!]


You and me both, dude.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 11:39 AM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]




Thank you for posting this! I'm working my way through some previous threads and I've been thinking a lot, mostly not-great stuff, and it's very draining.

One of the things I've been thinking about, in terms of the sexual assault allegations against Donald Trump, is how something like this would prevent many smart, talented, hard-working women from doing various high-level jobs. If Donald Trump were President, we’d have someone in the Oval Office with whom many women (very validly!) would not be comfortable being alone. I wouldn’t be alone with him! How terrifying! And it’s even worse than just “he might sexually assault you”, there’s the fact that, if a woman chose to be alone with this man and he assaulted her, there are lots of people who would claim she was “asking for it” because everyone knows what he’s like and you can’t be surprised when he does stuff like that. This is absolutely horrifying! Imagine having a president who can’t have high-level women on his staff because he might (probably will, he is a terrible man with no self-control) assault them and, instead of saying “how terrible, those women should be allowed to do their jobs, what an awful man”, people say “well we elected a president who can’t be trusted around women so they just have to deal with being assaulted if they want to have prestigious jobs that are readily available to men.” Imagine believing that someone is “asking for it” by being alone in the room with the literal President of the United States because he is a known sexual predator and has even bragged about it in public.

His sexism is terrible on every level, but this has really been preoccupying me lately, the backwards way many people treat this, not thinking “we shouldn’t elect a President who sexually assaults women” but “unless women are willing to be assaulted they shouldn’t have these jobs.” When powerful people are not safe for women, it cuts down on the opportunities available to us in subtler ways too, because we don’t want to take jobs that come with built-in victim blaming because someone in a position of power is known to be unsafe.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 11:40 AM on October 14, 2016 [161 favorites]


It's been so wonderful being a part of this community during this election cycle. It's kept me informed and sane for weeks. Plus it's a handy place for the best ammo for political discussion in the real world.
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:41 AM on October 14, 2016 [54 favorites]


> Use [real] and [fake] markers to reduce MeFite alarm.

It seems so long ago now...
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:41 AM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Gloria Allread's press conference with accuser n+1 is at 330 est. (I was checking the post and then realized we don't have any new information yet.)
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:42 AM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


PSA: Could someone please hire me for a new job soon so I can stop refreshing these threads + twitter constantly all day? Thanks.

Same here. At least I'm doing some classes to upgrade some skills but still, it's way too easy to just keep checking.
posted by Jalliah at 11:43 AM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


And get down off that combine harvester!

They're basically giant Roombas now anyway.
posted by maxsparber at 11:43 AM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


...

there's another debate?
posted by penduluum at 11:44 AM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


PSA: Could someone please hire me for a new job soon so I can stop refreshing these threads + twitter constantly all day? Thanks.

Volunteer for Hillary.


This is good advice, if you're able. I hired someone last year on the strength of her volunteer experience with a political campaign, and she was recommended for the position by someone she met there.
posted by anastasiav at 11:45 AM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


All I want from this Halloween is a gif of a herd of Trumps being chased by a group of Furiosas.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:45 AM on October 14, 2016 [35 favorites]


This thread loads!
posted by infini at 11:46 AM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


...

there's another debate?


Just one more.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:46 AM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh also, as other people in previous threads, I am ABSOLUTELY THRILLED that I will get to take my daughter to vote for a woman President! She'll be four months old the day before the election so I don't particularly expect her to remember it, but I'm glad she'll be able to say she was there and that we can take this step together to help create a better world for her.

IMPORTANT QUESTION: If I vote with my kid, do I get two stickers? Not to sound like a dick but I'm not sharing my sticker with a baby. I'm stronger than she is and will win in a fight.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 11:46 AM on October 14, 2016 [124 favorites]


Even if McMuffin were to win Utah, and in the very extremely unlikely event that there is a tie in electoral votes, for the House to effectively lead a coup d'état and elect him over the wishes of tens of millions of voters in the United States who don't even know who he is would be unprecedented. There would be protests and riots over such an act. The outcome would be as bad as a Trump presidency — possibly worse, in some respects.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:46 AM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Marlee Matlin responds. Doesn't confirm or deny, says: "As a person who is Deaf, as a woman, as a mom, as a wife, as an actor, I have a voice. And I'm using that oice to make myself heard...and vote."
posted by zachlipton at 11:47 AM on October 14, 2016 [23 favorites]



I've often disagreed with Dr. Ben Carson (R - Nebulon Prime System) but he always seemed a pleasant enough chap before this interview.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 11:47 AM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


For history-minded MeFites—
This FPP marked the first ever mention of Donald Trump on MetaFilter, and some of the comments are real doozies:
New York has some extraordinary buildings, some ugly buildings, some tall buildings, some dull buildlings.

Trump World Tower is the most extraordinarily dull, ugly tall building in New York.

Given the competition - e.g., most everything built from 1964-1980 - that's quite an accomplishment. A ninety-story graceless black glass rectangle without a setback - he's going to Hell for this one, I'm certain.
posted by lileks at 10:51 PM on September 2, 2000 [+] [!]
. . . . . . .

I think Trump should stop wasting his money building crap and invest it all in a decent looking hair piece. Good lord! All his money and he's still walking aorund with that dead rat on his head. Who does he think he's fooling?
posted by Nyarlathotep at 9:48 PM on September 3, 2000 [+] [!]
. . . . . . .

As long as he can date models who are barely older than his daughter, I don't think he is complaining about the rat on his head.
posted by tamim at 10:45 PM on September 3, 2000 [+] [!]
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:47 AM on October 14, 2016 [48 favorites]


You guys want to go outside; I want Waitmate. Home stretch.
posted by something something at 11:47 AM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


@MMASOCCERFAN
- "Sometimes you put your Christian values on pause to get the work done" #BenCarson #morningjoe -

Is this in Two Corinthians?
posted by chris24 at 11:47 AM on October 14, 2016 [47 favorites]


Holy shit, Gloria Allred's client was a contestant on the Apprentice.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:47 AM on October 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


komara: Oh my lord, that Donald declared post from June of 2015. Oh my. How innocent and optimistic we all were, and all within 215 comments.

My wife and I sat down to watch a few past episodes of Full Frontal with Samantha Bee, and we went from Too Close for Comfort to Pussy Riot in about 2 hours -- "Everyone knows Hillary has a 'p-word,' that's her problem" to "warning, you're going to hear the 'p-word,' and it's not 'presidential.'" It was kind of cathartic.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:49 AM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I would pay good money for alternative future historical fiction where McMuffin becomes pres and Pelosi is in charge of the house. Just in case anyone is trawling for ideas for National Writing Month.
posted by Trifling at 11:49 AM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Holy shit, Gloria Allred's client was a contestant on the Apprentice.

*donk* O.O

Okay, that's unexpected. Woah.
posted by Jalliah at 11:49 AM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


For those who need a lightly entertaining break unrelated to national politics: watch
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 11:50 AM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


IMPORTANT QUESTION: If I vote with my kid, do I get two stickers? Not to sound like a dick but I'm not sharing my sticker with a baby. I'm stronger than she is and will win in a fight.

My district has 'Future Voter' stickers to head off such disputes.
posted by palindromic at 11:50 AM on October 14, 2016 [50 favorites]


Fahrenthold: New clips show Trump talking about sex, rating women’s bodies, reminiscing about infidelity on Howard Stern Show, talking about the time his wife and mistress fought over him in public, "[Lindsay Lohan is] probably deeply troubled, and therefore great in bed,” and on Pope Benedict II, "He should just give up and die. He looks so bad."

Yes, that's right, Trump has actually attacked two Popes.
posted by zachlipton at 11:51 AM on October 14, 2016 [29 favorites]


This new allegation is on now. MSNBC. This poor woman :(
posted by Senor Cardgage at 11:52 AM on October 14, 2016


Re-posting here, since every time I post in an election thread literally the next comment is "we made a new thread!"

I've been seeing the following exchanges on my FB and it's getting my blood boiling:

Friend posts: "Michelle Obama is amazing! A vote for Trump is truly a vote against all women. [link to speech]
Comment 1: Preach! [1 Like]
Comment 2: She's amazing. Going to miss her so much. [2 Likes]
Comment 3: ACTUALLY THIS IS HYPOCRITICAL SINCE HILLARY PROMISED TO DESTROY BILL CLINTON'S
ACCUSERS. DON'T GET ME WRONG I THINK TRUMP IS AWFUL TOO, BUT PRETENDING BOTH CANDIDATES AREN'T EQUALLY AWFUL IS JUST PLAIN IGNORANCE. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A WOMAN WHO SAID SHE WOULD CRUCIFY BILL'S ACCUSERS. ALSO I'M REALLY THOUGHTFUL AND FAIR AND BALANCED BECAUSE I SEE BOTH SIDES, UNLIKE HILLARY SUPPORTERS WHO SEE WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE [7 Likes]


(Commence radio silence as Idiot goes unchallenged for all to witness)

What do you even say to these people? I feel like I can't just stay silent on it, but "Bill Clinton is not running for president" seems to go over their head - they genuinely believe she is a power hungry power monster who threatens rape victims with her ultimate power.

It's not about changing their mind - it's about not letting their shit-opinions go completely unencumbered in front of their wider social media circle. I don't even know what to say at this point, though.
posted by windbox at 11:52 AM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


I still have never seen a sticker at a polling place. I'm gonna bring my own stickers. Probably a Frozen sticker. I'll write "I VOTED" on Olaf's butt.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:52 AM on October 14, 2016 [36 favorites]


I'm waiting to hear back from a bunch of recruiters but I assume they've been nonstop refreshing this page too and doing no work this week either. Anyway! That Slate article about poll bumps is good. Here's the takeaway:

"Recent research, however, suggests that swings in the polls can often be attributed not to changes in voter intention but in changing patterns of survey nonresponse: What seems like a big change in public opinion turns out to be little more than changes in the inclinations of Democrats and Republicans to respond to polls. "
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:53 AM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Summer Zervos, a former Apprentice contestant, is coming forward right now on MSNBC. She has a very long and detailed statement.
posted by gatorae at 11:54 AM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]




I bought my own roll of stickers to share with anyone I know who wants one, since my county is lame and doesn't participate (Allegheny, in PA). 500 on Amazon for ~$13.
posted by miratime at 11:55 AM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


Summer Zervos, Apprentice contestant (some of the non-sexual part of the story, much of which I missed): Trump asked about my mortgage, which I said was in good standing. He talked about how he got out of his debts, told me not to make another payment, call the bank and tell them I'm leaving the keys and walking away, he said this was a mini-version of what he does.
posted by zachlipton at 11:55 AM on October 14, 2016 [19 favorites]


The Apprentice contestant is Summer Zervos; she claims she met Trump at the Beverly Hills Hotel to "discuss employment opportunities." Zervos claims Trump kissed her and touched her instead of giving her a job. Zervos describes Trump kissing her at their first meeting in New York, then giving her his phone number, then agreeing to dinner in LA. Zervos says Trump's security brought her to an LA bungalow, where Trump was apparently not clothed when he called for her from another room. Zervos claims she waited for him to come out and when he did he was in a suit, and then he began kissing her. She says she pulled away.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:55 AM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


I'll write "I VOTED" on Olaf's butt.

Some people are worth voting for.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:56 AM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


I feel like I can't just stay silent on it,

Just stay silent on it. What possible argument could you offer that would convince someone who wrote something like that to change their mind? Are there any rational discussions that can be had during this campaign that will make someone go "oh, yeah, I've been wrong all this time, you are right and now I side with you"? I just don't see that as possible.
posted by hippybear at 11:56 AM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]




Utah could be a three-way race which leads to a small possibility of President Evan.


Who?
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:56 AM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


and on Pope Benedict II, "He should just give up and die. He looks so bad."

Correction: Dammit. I said Trump was talking about Pope Benedict II, who died in 685 AD. It was Benedict XVI. Fixing. Thanks to @markberman for noticing
posted by zachlipton at 11:57 AM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


What do you even say to these people? I feel like I can't just stay silent on it

"Cool story, bro. Maybe you missed that this thread is celebrating a woman supporting women. If you don't have something supportive to say or substantive to add about the actual, real culture of violence and aggression against women in this country, please find another place to post your hot takes."
posted by phunniemee at 11:57 AM on October 14, 2016 [84 favorites]


windbox, my sister has a similar problem, and I think the only answer is vigorous policing of the comments allowed on one's own FB page. She's neither a classroom nor a newspaper, so she has no obligation to host all of society's opinions. If she has no real social contact with the person, delete, defriend, get on with life. If it's someone she has to actually deal with, well, delete the comment, and post a message that folks have their own pages to shit up with nonsense, if they so desire, get on with life.
posted by palindromic at 11:58 AM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Wow, Summer Zervos also talking about his business tactics along with the sexual assault.

"He said to tell the bank to let the house go into default. He said that's how he did business."

He groped her, kissed her, pressured her while she was looking for a job with the Trump organization.

She's crying as she describes her further attempts to contact him.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:58 AM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


For you who are more devout pastafarians than I've been, what do I need to promise the Flying Spaghetti Monster to make Texas go for Hillary? Because that's where some of the Trumpublican relatives live, and I wouldn't even need to rejoin Facebook, I 'd *hear* their wailing from the other end of the country.
posted by NorthernLite at 11:59 AM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Having posted about my positive feelings regarding my (amazing!) daughter and this election, I've also been thinking about all the people who distance themselves from Trump/assault by saying "as the father of daughters..." and, yeah, it's super bullshit! Women are people and you shouldn't need to be the parent of daughters to get that stuff is really bad! That said, as a woman, I'm seeing anew lots of really horrible things that I'd sort of discounted previously as just what happens. It's not that I don't know that all this bad stuff is out there (I do! I've experienced it!), it's that I've hardened myself to it as much as possible and seeing my sweet beautiful baby and stepping back and thinking about what I hope she doesn't have to go through and probably will absolutely breaks my heart.

I try to ignore this stuff because I'm used to it and I've learned how to do that and seeing a little girl and knowing what's likely coming and that you'll protect them as much as you can but it won't be enough is really hard and, even if it doesn't exactly give me a new perspective, it does make me face a lot of the awfulness I try to ignore for my own sanity.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 11:59 AM on October 14, 2016 [28 favorites]


He's in the middle of a rally right now. The story broke literally in the middle of him denouncing all the other woman who have come forward.
posted by gatorae at 11:59 AM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


I'll write "I VOTED" on Olaf's butt.

Some people are worth voting for.


LET IT GO!
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


It is cruel. It's frightening. And the truth is, it hurts. It hurts. It's like that sick, sinking feeling you get when you're walking down the street minding your own business and some guy yells out vulgar words about your body. Or when you see that guy at work that stands just a little too close, stares a little too long, and makes you feel uncomfortable in your own skin.

It's that feeling of terror and violation that too many women have felt when someone has grabbed them, or forced himself on them and they've said no but he didn't listen - something that we know happens on college campuses and countless other places every single day. It reminds us of stories we heard from our mothers and grandmothers about how, back in their day, the boss could say and do whatever he pleased to the women in the office, and even though they worked so hard, jumped over every hurdle to prove themselves, it was never enough.
THIS SPEECH.

Watching Michelle Obama, who has long been the first human my mind conjures when I think of the phrase "total badass," say these words... hearing her speak with a just-barely-trembling voice, seeing the look in her eye and noticing her tone deaden when she said, "We thought all of that was ancient history, didn't we?"... I am just so fucking overwhelmed by it all.

Because I have sat by for so many years while men have gotten real busy telling women that we are making it all up, exaggerating, rudely failing to take a compliment -- but there she was, the goddamn First Lady of the United States, talking about feeling poisoned to the pit of her stomach when she gets catcalled. She was talking directly to us as women, as workers, as the largest class of people on earth still so regularly forced to strive for being treated with basic standards of decency and respect. "And all of us are doing what women have always done: We're trying to keep our heads above water, just trying to get through it..." It makes me feel so seen, and many of the women I've spoken to about it feel the same way. As crushingly depressing as things have had to get to come to this, I'm intensely grateful to witness our stories as they are recognized and accounted for so boldly on the national stage. Thank you, Ms. Obama.
posted by amnesia and magnets at 12:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [243 favorites]


windbox: "What do you even say to these people? I feel like I can't just stay silent on it, but "Bill Clinton is not running for president" seems to go over their head - they genuinely believe she is a power hungry power monster who threatens rape victims with her ultimate power."

Well, one response would be to push back on the idea that she threatened any of these women. (That source is a Guardian column, so it might not be the most persuasive to a right-leaning crowd, but it's the first thing I found while googling.)

The idea that Hillary “threatened” these women is a flimsy dodge of the “Bill's not running for president” defense. Rather than taint her with Bill's alleged crimes and admitted adultery, they invent a related charge that dovetails with their conception of Hillary as an all-powerful harpy.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [25 favorites]


Summer Zervos is incredibly brave, knowing that Trump will be spending at least the next 48 hours tweeting horrible things about her.
posted by turaho at 12:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [45 favorites]


Voted early on Tuesday. Can I just go to sleep until the 9th?
posted by nestor_makhno at 12:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


The Smiths popped up on my Spotify this morning, and this line is sticking with me today (particularly in light of the convo from last thread about how much of a hand we should extend to Trumpsters):
In my life
Why do I give valuable time
To people who don't care if I
live or die?


That's where I'm at. I'm done giving my valuable time to people who, quite literally, don't care if I live or die.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


for fuck's sake im still 800 comments back on the old post

can't we all just lie down for like half an hour
posted by poffin boffin at 12:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [99 favorites]


I just voted in early voting in Minnesota. I not only got two stickers ("you can use one for today and one for election day!") but also was offered to have my picture taken in front of a giant novelty I Voted sticker. I would never stoop so low...
posted by mcstayinskool at 12:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [45 favorites]


Trump apparently went off on a 20 minute rant about how he doesn't know these women and they're just looking for fame, blaming Carlos Slim, even asking why nobody makes these allegations against Obama.
posted by zachlipton at 12:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


I don't even know what to say at this point, though.

Encourage them not to vote.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 12:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Seriously, it cut directly from Trump saying "I don't know any of these women, I've never met them, they're making it all up" to a woman saying "I was a contestant on the Apprentice."

Summer Zervos said she'd emailed the campaign about this in April. They had to know this was coming, and yet Trump's razor seems to be diamond-tipped.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [21 favorites]




How has Trump not broken Twitter's rules, btw. He's got every single one of the "Abusive Behaviors" except perhaps impersonation.
posted by fraula at 12:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


How has Trump not broken Twitter's rules, btw. He's got every single one of the "Abusive Behaviors" except perhaps impersonation.

Twitter doesn't give a shit.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 12:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [71 favorites]


Summer Zervos has finished speaking in the press conference live stream I posted, but you can rewind it to the 33 min mark to hear the whole thing.
posted by insoluble uncertainty at 12:06 PM on October 14, 2016


Allred: "Many more women have contacted me. will they be coming forward? I can't answer that question at this time."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


The crowd would really like him to talk more about building the wall and locking her up.

I was saying last night that there's almost a liturgical character to the rallies that attendees now demand from Trump. It's like a black mass, just in orange.
posted by holgate at 12:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [50 favorites]


I actually do believe that Trump thinks Obama does this too. He cannot conceive of a person in power not abusing those under them.
posted by gatorae at 12:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [167 favorites]


He's got every single one of the "Abusive Behaviors" except perhaps impersonation.

He's impersonating a presidential candidate.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:07 PM on October 14, 2016 [58 favorites]


This Summer Zervos accusation is even more damaging than the ones in the paper imo because she arguably his direct employee. Hence the presence of Gloria Allred ready to sue the tie off Trumps pants presumably. TGIF?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:07 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


@fraula

Twitter doesn't care. They care about driving ad revenue more than the concerns of their users.
posted by 81818181818181818181 at 12:07 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


I apologize if this cover of The Economist been mentioned already, but holy shit. That's perfect.
posted by Roommate at 12:07 PM on October 14, 2016 [75 favorites]




[from last election thread] > Michelle saw that she could be easily put into the box of Angry Black Woman and therefore took concrete steps to stay above the fray and just kill them with kindness, so to speak. It's not an accident that her pet project is Let's Move, which is about as inoffensive as it can be.

This was a great point that I've been thinking about for a few days. FLOTUS's speech yesterday impressively walked lines between sounding extemporaneous while being too well written for that and angry without being hateful by adding a heavy dose of sadness for what hate does to people and being heartfelt as I've ever heard from anyone.

The Obamas are planning to stay in D.C. for a while and while Ms. Obama doesn't want to run for office and I expect/hope she'll continue to work on the causes she champions now, I also hope she continues to throw shade like it was her job. Her "pleasantness" makes her disapproval that much more cutting.
posted by morganw at 12:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [24 favorites]


President Evan a very conservative coalition dreamed this up at Stein Erickson's lodge in Park City, last summer. This is a well thought out plan to subvert this election. This is not a feather lost in a birdbath, this is a real threat to our democracy. They have held this in abeyance until the eleventh hour, making it look like an improbable gambit. I am not sure, but what if everyone is on board? What if all the Republicans who dumped Trump did so last minute, to cover for this?
posted by Oyéah at 12:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh! Again? I thought this was over!

I mean, surely sniveling Trump - is sniveling what you call it when you're allergic to facts? - surely he has dropped out. And even if he has absolutely no sense of shame, everybody else has a conscience and they won't vote for that man.

Ok, we're still doing it then.

I had to check before I hit post. I'd hate to get my facts wrong.

Sniveling.
posted by adept256 at 12:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


there's almost a liturgical character to the rallies

Disrepectful. That "liturgical character" has a name: it's The Pope.

Mister The Pope, if you're nasty
posted by Greg Nog at 12:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


Not to #NotAllMen this, but I think Trump literally thinks "yes all men," because he cannot fathom somebody with fame or power not committing sexual assault. So in his mind, of course he thinks President Obama is just as much of a predator as he is.
posted by zachlipton at 12:10 PM on October 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


"Reporter asks Summer Zervos why she came forward with Trump accusation: 'Because I want to be able to sleep at night when I’m 70.'” (from a Tweet by Kia Makarechi.)
posted by infinitywaltz at 12:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [74 favorites]


So I realize why he won't do this if challenged, but couldn't some reporter challenge trump to sign something (it wouldn't be a contract exactly, since there would be no consideration on the part of the other party?), but something that basically says "I waive my right to sue under non-disclosure agreements that prevent the release of the Apprentice tapes."

Ideally it would be broader and he would waive all NDAs including those signed by Ivanka, but I could certainly imagine reasons why even a non-rapist would not waive every NDA ever.

Of course he would never agree to sign something like that, but I'd love to have a reporter say "Why not just debunk all this by having all the apprentice tapes released? If it's not true, give them the material to prove it and let them embarrass themselves when they can't."
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]




A Hillary victory without a Senate Democrat majority will present many problems as GOP unites behind their hatred of a woman president who is a Democrat.
posted by Postroad at 12:12 PM on October 14, 2016 [20 favorites]




Can I just say how amazing Lawrence O'Donnell has been on this story:
@lawrence: Yes I deliberately chose to have no men guests on my show tonight because authority on sexual assault against women belongs only to women.

I never really watched him before, since I don't have cable. It's just so shocking to me to see a top news guy (emphasis on guy) actually reporting on sexual assault in a way that doesn't fill me with despair.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [141 favorites]


Reporter asks Summer Zervos why she came forward with Trump accusation: “Because I want to be able to sleep at night when I’m 70.” --@Kia_Mak

Another important part of the Zervos story is that she said she wrote an email to Trump (when seeking a job from him, which she did after the assault) that referenced his conduct. Presumably that email is going to be produced soon enough.
posted by zachlipton at 12:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


Hell, if they could have the contract-like-waiver-of-NDA ready and in front of him before a lawyer could stop him, he might well sign it. It seems like he legitimately believes he hasn't done anything bad or unusual.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:13 PM on October 14, 2016


This has only been happening for a week!
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Lawrence O'Donnell is an outstanding reporter and human being.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


@reidepstein: Trump crowd in NC now yelling "lock her up" in reference to the women accusing him of touching them without consent.

And there you have it, folks. The conservative movement is now being run by people who want to criminalize consent.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:15 PM on October 14, 2016 [38 favorites]






Anne Helen Peterson was at the Cincinnati rally earlier today and spoke with a number of women about why they support Donald Trump for president.
Laurie is one of thousands of female Trump supporters at the Cincinnati rally — which police estimate drew over 17,000 people — and one of nearly two dozen I spoke with who have rejected the idea that a slew of claims of abuse now surfacing should have any bearing on Trump. These women, however, do not fit the easy stereotype of Trump supporters — some are angry, some are from rural areas, but the vast majority are from suburban areas and have steady, middle-class livelihoods. Some wore matching pink and white shirts emblazoned with “ADORABLE DEPLORABLES”; others donned the contemporary classic uniform of skinny jeans, knee-high boots, and perfectly coiffed hair...

While every woman I spoke to had a different way to excuse the allegations against Trump, one thing remained constant: It does not matter what he does, or what other women say Trump’s done to them. These women, they’re with him.
posted by ChuraChura at 12:16 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Not to #NotAllMen this, but I think Trump literally thinks "yes all men," because he cannot fathom somebody with fame or power not committing sexual assault. So in his mind, of course he thinks President Obama is just as much of a creep as he is.

It's just the way men are! How dare women (or anyone) expect any different! Something something innate male nature blah blah evo psych.

Of course, that's all bullshit, but a lot of people really seem to believe it and I think that this is a huge obstacle towards dismantling rape culture. It's one reason why men need to be the ones challenging other men on this. It's not normal and it's not innate.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]




Are women people?
The presidential election has turned into a referendum on whether women are full human beings or objects men own
posted by infini at 12:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [107 favorites]


Thanks I always wondered what it would have been like if Andrew Dice Clay was at Nuremberg
posted by theodolite at 12:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [98 favorites]


Trump literally thinks "yes all men," because he cannot fathom somebody with fame or power not committing sexual assault.

I don't mean to defend Trump here, but I do want to speak about this. When I was growing up, all I wanted was to have really close male friends who would value me, and I them, above others. Girls were good for friends, but they weren't who I wanted to be truly, emotionally close with.

Cut to college in the late 80s, when beer companies were handing out free posters for college dorm rooms (picture three busty women in single-piece bathing suits lying next to each other so the individual suits with text printed across the breasts would spell out BUD-WEIS-ER as your eyes traveled across the six kitties). I couldn't possibly understand why anyone would put something like that in their room! I mean, I know, as a hardcore Christian, we're meant to find a woman to marry and to have children with, but... I mean... women make great friends but I've not met one that makes me want to ask them to marry me. I trust that I'll meet "the one" at some point. I find the focus of most of my college friends toward women to be confusing and disappointing, believing that true happiness is only to be found in a close, bonded relationship with a male.

I hadn't even considered sex with a guy at this point. My conservative religious upbringing had made me believe that homosexuals were sort of a boogyman like Jason Vorhees or Freddy Kruger. They were big scary monsters, but they didn't really exist. It would be a few more years before other puzzle pieces fell into place and I finally realized that I am gay.

So... the point of this is... and I'm not defending Trump by saying this, is that I can understand the "yes all men" thing because I've had the same oblivious "this is who I am all must be like this" perception about the world when I was younger.
posted by hippybear at 12:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


Utah could be a three-way race which leads to a small possibility of President Evan.

Him?
posted by Mayor West at 12:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


146 posts tagged with election2016.

Oh god. I knew that there'd been a lot but that's insane. They date back to January 6, 2015 which means that we'll only get a two year break before we start tagging things election2020.
posted by octothorpe at 12:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


Are women people?
The presidential election has turned into a referendum on whether women are full human beings or objects men own


Yeah, and it looks like the side of decency is gonna win big! Like maybe even 50% of the popular vote.
posted by skewed at 12:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [30 favorites]


There are no adjectives to describe how the combination of media, connectivity, the HQs of most of the apps on the internet, and this horrible, terrible bile emerging from this corner of the planet is spilling out and raising blisters and pustules on every single woman on this planet. Especially of colour.
posted by infini at 12:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


roomthreeseventeen: "Trump on the woman who claimed he assaulted her on a plane: “She would not be my first choice ... That would not be my first choice.”"

Jesus. I thought when he danced around this idea yesterday that that was a profoundly stupid move. I didn't think he'd be stupid enough to say it outright. Trump's Razor cuts again.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:22 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Mentioned last thread, but worth it for the framing: Limbaugh: The Left Is Obsessed With Consent | All In | MSNBC
They're called the real police.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:22 PM on October 14, 2016 [38 favorites]


Yes, in case it wasn't clear, my Twitter question was rhetorical and largely meant to point out their blatant hypocrisy.

It also might be nice for Twitter users to report his BS. If you want one concrete way (among others) to help people hurt by his shit, there you go. Report his abuse for exactly what it is.
posted by fraula at 12:22 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


The thread that holds all this together is a disavowal of women’s right to autonomy and an assertion that our bodies and the decision-making power over them should belong to men. There’s an elaborate distribution scheme to handle which men get to control which female bodies: Virgins belong to their fathers, wives to their husbands, some women get categorized as “sluts” and can be manhandled at will. Apparently any man who has the same insurance plan as you gets to view porn about you at will. But ultimately, the decision-making power over a woman’s body belongs to anyone but the woman.

Anyone remember New Delhi?
posted by infini at 12:22 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


I can understand the "yes all men" thing because I've had the same oblivious "this is who I am all must be like this" perception about the world when I was younger.

Dude's 70, he's no longer young, he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt on anything. Especially when we prosecute 12 year old children of color as adults in this country.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:22 PM on October 14, 2016 [98 favorites]


It's just so shocking to me to see a top news guy (emphasis on guy) actually reporting on sexual assault in a way that doesn't fill me with despair.
He got choked up while reading from the People story, and it felt real to me. I've liked him for a long time, first learning about his work writing for The West Wing and later discovering that he worked for Sen. Moynihan from NY for ages. He gets into trouble a lot, particularly with Mormons, which he calls a made up religion founded to excuse adultery.
posted by xyzzy at 12:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


How can this post not have any references to Wikileaks or the Podesta emails, in either the main post or any of the comments?

Trumps sex scandals are hardly the only scandals rocking America at the moment.
posted by sourbrew at 12:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


According to this tweet, this was the third time Trump has said that the women accusing him must have been lying because they aren't attractive enough for him.
posted by zachlipton at 12:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Are women people?
The presidential election has turned into a referendum on whether women are full human beings or objects men own

Yeah, and it looks like the side of decency is gonna win big! Like maybe even 50% of the popular vote.


I know this was supposed to be encouraging, but I'm still having trouble mustering enthusiasm for an election where Trump isn't repudiated by at least 51% of the population that he has openly boasted of being able to molest without repercussion. If everyone he's assigned second-class citizenship to were to vote against him, it'd be a 50-point, 538-EV runaway.
posted by Mayor West at 12:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


I'm having trouble not having shadenfreude about the chaos this is causing in the Republican party. It sucks in a way, as this has the potential to remove some of the few moderate R's left in Congress and replace them with D's. Which I don't mind, but it further's the Republican Party's final descent into madness. I do feel slightly sorry for women in the Republican party, with this wannabe Berlusconi (he's not even a wannabe Mussolini) becoming their standard bearer and showing what the men of the party actually think of them. I know that decent, normal people who I get along with can disagree with me on the best direction this country should go, but right now they are being led by the closest you can get to a steam locomotive colliding with a burning oil refinery in human form.
posted by Hactar at 12:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I don't think he's really asking why women don't accuse Obama, that's more of request to the deplorables to step up their game and find someone to accuse Obama. He thinks this is all made up, it's a political tactic/conspiracy against him, so the logical thing would be for the right to find some more accusers to say Obama did something to them too.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Yeah, and it looks like the side of decency is gonna win big! Like maybe even 50% of the popular vote.

My nightmare is that in spite of the fact that I try to follow polls I don't agree with and the Twitter accounts of people I loathe, I'm stuck in a left of center echo chamber and Trump is actually on track to squeak by.

Intellectually, I know this is bullshit. O goddamn it scares me, though.
posted by Mooski at 12:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [22 favorites]


How can this post not have any references to Wikileaks or the Podesta emails, in either the main post or any of the comments?

Trumps sex scandals are hardly the only scandals rocking America at the moment.


Scandals? Yes they are.
posted by chris24 at 12:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


How can this post not have any references to Wikileaks or the Podesta emails, in either the main post or any of the comments?

You should make the next election post!
posted by Greg Nog at 12:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [36 favorites]


How can this post not have any references to Wikileaks or the Podesta emails, in either the main post or any of the comments?

We've been discussing them in the comments of every election thread so far. This one is less than an hour old, so nobody has said anything about them yet. If you have a topic of discussion related to the emails (not just "omg the email scandal," but an actual "here's this thing and here's why I think it's important or interesting or says something significant"), then I'd be interested in discussing that.
posted by zachlipton at 12:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]




How can this post not have any references to Wikileaks or the Podesta emails, in either the main post or any of the comments?

Trumps sex scandals are hardly the only scandals rocking America at the moment.


be the change etc
posted by zutalors! at 12:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [24 favorites]


I went through a phase when I was about eleven when I decided to become a fan of a different football team than the one in my home city, just to be contrary and get attention. It was intentionally obnoxious, but I swore up and down it was genuine. That's what Trump supporters seem like to me at this point: they've decided to say they believe in something because it goes against the establishment, and they don't care about the details. They know it doesn't make sense and they don't care; they just want people to pay attention to them. It's not a very cool thing to do even when you're 11 and only pretending like you believe in the Chicago Bears.
posted by something something at 12:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [45 favorites]


New accuser on CNN live, was on "The Apprentice."

While Trump is in Greensboro RIGHT NOW mocking and denigrating other accusers.

I'll be at the 7:00 Charlotte rally.

And it's gonna suuuuuuck.
posted by Cookiebastard at 12:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


So I guess my intuition that a friday afternoon news dump was coming was accurate...
posted by Annika Cicada at 12:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


zachlipton: "According to this tweet, this was the third time Trump has said that the women accusing him must have been lying because they aren't attractive enough for him."

He said it twice at yesterday's rally, but obliquely enough that he could claim plausible deniability (at least if he weren't Donald Trump). Apparently that wasn't cathartic enough for him.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Trumps sex scandals are hardly the only scandals rocking America at the moment.

These aren't fucking "sex scandals." Nobody cares that Trump had sex outside of marriage. These are allegations of sexual assault and predatory behavior.
posted by duffell at 12:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [291 favorites]


Dude's 70, he's no longer young, he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt on anything.

I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt. I'm not giving him a pass on anything. The things he's done are repulsive and it's a shame he doesn't have a past which might have given him opportunities of insight to change and grow so he would be someone with much more insight in his 70s. But it didn't happen.

It's repugnant that he's like this. I'm only saying I understand how someone can be like this. I'm not saying that I understand how someone can be like this ALL THEIR FUCKING LIFE.
posted by hippybear at 12:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


I know this was supposed to be encouraging, but I'm still having trouble mustering enthusiasm for an election where Trump isn't repudiated by at least 51% of the population that he has openly boasted of being able to molest without repercussion. If everyone he's assigned second-class citizenship to were to vote against him, it'd be a 50-point, 538-EV runaway.

Agreed. I actually meant it as a sign of both short-term joy and long-term despair. Hillary is probably going to win, and convincingly relative to other elections. Trump is going to lose, but by a narrow margin relative to a populace with a healthy moral instinct.
posted by skewed at 12:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]




THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DEMAND ANSWERS ABOUT RISOTTOGATE.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [47 favorites]


How can this post not have any references to Wikileaks or the Podesta emails, in either the main post or any of the comments?

Trumps sex scandals are hardly the only scandals rocking America at the moment.


IRL LOL.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [42 favorites]


Actual white supremacist: Trump’s success “proves that our views resonate with millions”

This article drives home why, as a lefty Bernie supporter/Green-leaner who hasn't voted for a mainstream Democrat in many, many years, I am WITH HER ENTHUSIASTICALLY. But more than that, it drives home my grave disappointment in most (not all, but most) of my fellow leftists who are actively LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU refusing to grapple with the fact that this election is now not a choice between the lesser of two (bourgeois neoliberal) evils, but is now in fact the choice between bourgeois neoliberalism and full-on white nationalist authoritarianism.

IMO, it's a political, intellectual, and -- yes -- moral failure, all because they don't want to reckon with the uncomfortable historical implications that are right before their very eyes, which will require them to abandon the same talking points that get trotted out every goddamn election. (And I should know: I trotted them out myself year after year after year.) They know that if they concede that Trump is some form of quasi-proto-fascist they have to vote for Clinton, and they don't have the fortitude to face those implications.

Electing Trump would empower white nationalists and neo-Nazis, period, and will make life immediately more dangerous for immigrants, women, PoC, and LGBTQ people on November 9. Anyone who doesn't get that the first order of action is making sure that doesn't happen has, IMO, forfeited the right to call themselves progressives. It's sad and shocking to find out that many friends of mine have turned out to be as narrow-minded and, frankly, as cowardly as those on the right who we long decried, but here we are.

[Rant over. Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. I'm going to go watch kitten videos now.]
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 12:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [179 favorites]


How can this post not have any references to Wikileaks or the Podesta emails

That state-sponsored hackers are trying to make a big fucking deal about political campaigns talking like political campaigns? That Wikileaks' utter disregard for basic fucking humanity meant that today they exposed a Clinton staffer's suicide attempt?

Yeah, scandalous.
posted by holgate at 12:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [82 favorites]


I know this was supposed to be encouraging, but I'm still having trouble mustering enthusiasm for an election where Trump isn't repudiated by at least 51% of the population that he has openly boasted of being able to molest without repercussion. If everyone he's assigned second-class citizenship to were to vote against him, it'd be a 50-point, 538-EV runaway.

Mayor West, the evangelical leaders who endorsed him are sticking with him. Because for them, it's not about Christian morality, it's about abortion, gays and (whisper it) race. And for some men and some women, that is more important that electing a decent human being as president. Getting a justice on the Supreme court that will keep it as a bulwark against progressive reforms is more important that not electing a rapist.

I think there are also people who do believe that this is the Clintons engineering a plot to discredit him. I suspect there's quite a bit of backfire effect going on.
posted by Hactar at 12:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


This FB post (screenshot) sums up the false equivalency Republicans pretty well. [via twitter]
posted by melissasaurus at 12:31 PM on October 14, 2016 [126 favorites]


Question/request: can anyone direct me to a source on how smashing HRC's Blackberries with a hammer was an actual mandated policy? I've seen that noted several times on the blue, but Google-fu is failing me.

I'm going to a gathering of friends tonight and at least two or three guys there are still anti-Hillary trolls, no matter how much they hate & won't vote for Trump. I suspect "emails" is gonna come up, 'cause that's basically all they've got anymore.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:31 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


2028 GOP PLATFORM:
Replace science grants w/$25 Applebee's gift cards
Public education scaled back to PE only
Medicare replaced w/ "roadside leech clinics"
Tax breaks for all purchases of arm-mounted nuclear missile launchers
Ducks are illegal

RELIGIOUS RIGHT:
Uh

2028 GOP:
Oh and also lifetime prison sentences for women who have abortions

RELIGIOUS RIGHT:
Perfect, don't change a thing.
posted by duffell at 12:31 PM on October 14, 2016 [61 favorites]


I know the theft of files from the Democratic National Committee seems like the kind of scandal that would put a lot of people in jail and bring down a Presidential contender who tried to benefit from it, but it's really just so 44 years ago at this point.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [42 favorites]


THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DEMAND ANSWERS ABOUT RISOTTOGATE.

Australia's got ya back, mate.
posted by rokusan at 12:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


NSW parliament labels Donald Trump ‘a revolting slug' unfit for public office

Parliament unanimously carries Greens MP Jeremy Buckingham’s motion condemning US Republican candidate for ‘misogynistic, hateful’ comments.

So a motion was passed calling him a revolting slug. Unanimously. Thanks NSW.
posted by adept256 at 12:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [52 favorites]




I wish anyone who cared about the emails was forced to do doc review for a day. They'd get over their OMG EMAILS SCANDALLLLLLL!!!1! real quick.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [67 favorites]


for fuck's sake im still 800 comments back on the old post

can't we all just lie down for like half an hour


And now we're 1,800 comments back!
posted by mikelieman at 12:35 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


According to this tweet, this was the third time Trump has said that the women accusing him must have been lying because they aren't attractive enough for him.

My high school handbook had a code of conduct, and with it came a glossary defining some of the terms. In that glossary, they defined "sexual misconduct" as any kind of physical contact "resulting in the gratification of either party". The joke going around was that if you ever got caught, you could get out of trouble by saying "actually, neither one of us enjoyed it."

The thing is, though, we were teenagers, and we were kidding. Trump is 70 and he's being serious.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:35 PM on October 14, 2016 [20 favorites]


Fucked-up circumstances of their theft and release aside, the Podesta emails conclusively prove that Clinton was running a pretty typical Democratic campaign, and that she is not, in fact, a craven monster bent on destroying America.
posted by theodolite at 12:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [53 favorites]


It's ok to skip to the end, really. No one gets any points for reading every election post, and the only prize at the end is more election posts.

Just please use the search function before you post something. There's been way to many links posted 2, 3 or 4 times here lately.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:37 PM on October 14, 2016 [31 favorites]


See this Wired story on Blackberry destruction. The upshot is that a hammer was bad because it wasn't destructive enough.
posted by xyzzy at 12:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


It's ok to skip to the end, really. No one gets any points for reading every election post, and the only prize at the end is more election posts.

See also: elections.
posted by rokusan at 12:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I know, consider the source and all, but come the fuck on.
posted by mudpuppie at 12:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


New York law sets the absolute minimum sentence for sexual assault at one to two years and the absolute maximum penalty at seven years. (source)

Just thought I'd leave that here.
posted by Devonian at 12:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Men, You Can Survive Without Us—Please Try by Ijeoma Oluo
I want you to understand that you don’t need us, and that you should get used to living a life not defined by how closely you can bind us to you. Because your fear of living without us is literally killing us. When you shoot us for not giving you our phone numbers, when you stab us for breaking up with you. When you force us to have your children, when you force your bodies on us, when you demand that we make a low enough salary to make us financially dependent on you, and then you beat us to ensure that we know that all we are is yours. When you shoot into crowds of us because we rejected you in college, when you kill us and our children when we try to escape you.

All of this fear that you cannot survive without us is leaving so many of us dead.

What bound us to you was circumstance—circumstance that you created. But what bound you to us was fear. And as we break our bonds of circumstance, you face an even harder task: breaking free of the prison of your own minds that says that you stand on nothing if you do not stand on our necks. That without us underfoot, you will fall into the abyss.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [111 favorites]


Surely all the sexual assaults didn't happen in New York.
posted by hippybear at 12:40 PM on October 14, 2016


He made fun of their looks more than once today:

@jdelreal
Trump seems to make a joke about one of the accusers: "When you looked at that horrible woman last night, you said, 'I don't think soooo.'"
posted by chris24 at 12:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


"We've been discussing them in the comments of every election thread so far. This one is less than an hour old, so nobody has said anything about them yet. If you have a topic of discussion related to the emails (not just "omg the email scandal," but an actual "here's this thing and here's why I think it's important or interesting or says something significant"), then I'd be interested in discussing that."

I think at a minimum Donna Brazille's abuse of her position at CNN is an important story, I'd also argue that Clinton lying about quite a few of her positions on the campaign trail from fracking to TPP is also a big deal.

Podesta axing carbon taxes from her policy, while she refused to give a yes or no at town halls is arguably more important to the future of our country than Trumps actions.

Which isn't to say that Trump isn't a shit heel of the highest degree and arguably deserves criminal punishment for sexual assault, but it's also not like we've learned anything new about him.

Meanwhile the Podesta emails are arguably one of the most valuable journalistic releases in history in terms of the insight into a modern political campaign.
posted by sourbrew at 12:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Obama has apparently lifted restrictions on Cuban rum and cigars entering the US. Surely this will help sway the wealthy magnate vote.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 12:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


No Fucks Obama just gets more and more enjoyable: "Come on, man."
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [69 favorites]


Are women people?
The presidential election has turned into a referendum on whether women are full human beings or objects men own


skewed: Yeah, and it looks like the side of decency is gonna win big! Like maybe even 50% of the popular vote.

Maybe 51%, would you say?
posted by filthy light thief at 12:43 PM on October 14, 2016


Meanwhile the Podesta emails are arguably one of the most valuable journalistic releases in history in terms of the insight into a modern political campaign.

Well, you go ahead and enjoy them I guess.

/shrug
posted by Artw at 12:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [74 favorites]


I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but it's pretty great. It's the Trump cover for this month's Letras Libres, a mexican journal of literature and politics.
posted by Omon Ra at 12:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Meanwhile the Podesta emails are arguably one of the most valuable journalistic releases in history in terms of the insight into a modern political campaign.

Come on, man.
posted by holgate at 12:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [88 favorites]


Regarding phone destruction

Page 4

That's NASA saying that. One presumes State would be similar
posted by qcubed at 12:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


How can this post not have any references to Wikileaks or the Podesta emails, in either the main post or any of the comments?

Truly, nobody cares.

Trump is massively awful enough that any and all Democrat misstep, malice or malfeasance is way, way down the list of concerns right now, both emotionally and logically... and the Clinton camp knows it, even when they're coasting to a massive victory. This is how they're riding the media wave.

(After the election I like to think there might be a little reckoning over some of the things that have been overlooked thus far. Keeping them honest (well, as honest as possible) is a good thing, so I hope we don't completely abandon vigilance. Lord knows the fourth estate has.
posted by rokusan at 12:45 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


The Limbaugh thing about consent: "Okay, what did Trump do? He violated the fundamental principle of consent. So what do I have to do? I have to make it sound like consent is some stupid idea that Liberals thought up." It's kind of brilliant in its shamelessness; it's this very utilitarian approach to communication that completely dispenses with all that unnecessary nonsense about principles and making sense.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:45 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


ok, sourbrew, you have established beyond any doubt that these emails are very important to you and you'd like people to be talking about them. Do you have anything more specific to say about them and their importance?
posted by duffell at 12:46 PM on October 14, 2016 [49 favorites]


Podesta axing carbon taxes from her policy, while she refused to give a yes or no at town halls is arguably more important to the future of our country than Trumps actions.

I disagree. The states (in WA we'll have an opportunity to put a carbon tax in place this election) are taking the lead on this and other clean energy initiatives; when enough get momentum then you'll see action at the federal level. Trump's policies (or lack thereof) pose much more of a threat than Podesta removing a policy action from some campaign events.

Also, how the hell did Carlos Slim get dragged into this? Who's next, Jack Ma?
posted by Existential Dread at 12:47 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


And it's not journalism any more than the leak of hacked photos was a valuable insight into what certain famous women look like naked.
posted by holgate at 12:47 PM on October 14, 2016 [25 favorites]


zachlipton: Trump apparently went off on a 20 minute rant about how he doesn't know these women and they're just looking for fame, blaming Carlos Slim, even asking why nobody makes these allegations against Obama.

Yes, Carlos Slim is a real person: Trump Blames Mexican Billionaire Carlos Slim For Sexual Misconduct Stories (VIDEO) (Talking Points Memo, October 14, 2016)
Donald Trump is pinning the blame for a wave of sexual misconduct allegations against him on Mexican billionaire Carlos Slim.

“The corrupt media is doing everything in their power to stop our movement,” Trump said Friday at a campaign rally in Greensboro, North Carolina, before singling out “the failing New York Times.”

“The largest shareholder in the Times is Carlos Slim. Now Carlos Slim comes from Mexico,” he said. “He's given many millions of dollars to the Clintons and their initiative. So Carlos Slim, the largest owner of the paper, from Mexico.”

Trump also claimed, without substantiation, that the Times newsroom is part of the Slim-Clinton alliance out to get him.

“Reporters of the New York Times, they’re not journalists, they’re corporate lobbyist for Carlos Slim and for Hillary Clinton,” he said.

“We are going to let foreign corporations and their CEOs decide the outcomes of the—“ Trump paused. “You just cannot do this. We cannot let this happen. We are not going to let it happen where they decide the outcome of our elections. They cannot do it and we are not going to let it happen.”
What corporation do the Clintons run again? Their foundation?
posted by filthy light thief at 12:47 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


"Reporter asks Summer Zervos why she came forward with Trump accusation: 'Because I want to be able to sleep at night when I’m 70.'”

There was a discussion on CBC's The Current this morning about the accusations, and it had speakers on either side, but the pro-Trump speaker was a woman. And it was all the same lines we've heard before when Cosby did it or Ghomeshi did it or whomever -- that it's not proven, why didn't they come forward before, why not go to the police, blah blah blah.

Those lines, we've heard them a million times, but this was the first time that I've heard them from a woman (or at least that I took note of it). And not that all women need to assume one voice together on things or there's some larger sisterhood out there that should agree politically, but -- lady, what are you doing?

Summer Zervos will be able to sleep when she's 70. This campaign hack -- I hope she's capable of enough humanity to go sleepless. Sheezus.
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:47 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


I want more recipe emails.
posted by asteria at 12:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


Podesta axing carbon taxes from her policy, while she refused to give a yes or no at town halls is arguably more important to the future of our country than Trumps actions.

Well, I think the pervasive and near-universal experience of women being sexually assaulted by powerful men is "arguably" more important than a former right-wing policy that is only considered centrist/liberal because the right decided to hitch their wagon to obstruction and fascism. If I have to choose between whether a campaign focuses on the pandemic of sexual assault or the carbon tax, I really could give two shits about a carbon tax.

As Gary Johnson said, eventually the sun will encompass the earth. In the meantime, millions of women will be sexually assaulted.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [80 favorites]


Also, calling the Podesta emails a 'journalistic release' is....something, I guess.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [31 favorites]


I can’t stop thinking about Michelle Obama’s speech, and part of what I was thinking about was the way that men like Trump and his sons and so many men of all kinds (#notall, but a lot) never actually get to know women at all.

What I mean is— I know so many funny, brilliant, sly, kind, tender women. But for many of us, a lot of these qualities only become really evident when we are feeling safe.

When I am around men who make me feel unsafe, my behavior changes. They don’t get to see elements of who I am, because they can’t be trusted with that version of my self. I can’t count on them to treat her well. It isn’t worth the risk.

And the same is true for so many of my female friends— we all tend to have this limited public persona as a baseline, and it gets more tightly controlled when the men around us are upsetting, or aggressive, or dismissive. Women I know as brilliant and incisive speakers go silent. Women who are hilarious stop smiling (except the tooth-bearing grimace men demand in response to their “jokes”). Women who can be unbelievably gentle become cold, brittle.

And it isn’t just men who mansplain, or men who harass, or men who commit sexual assault. It can be men who laugh at certain jokes, even if they aren’t the ones who make them. It can be men who say “it was just a joke” about something that clearly was not a joke. It can be men who say “he’s harmless” about a missing stair friend. It can be men who trot out the “why do you have so many shoes??” line.

And there are gradations. There are wonderful, kind, progressive men, who are still only safe up to a point. Men who condemn the outright misogyny of Trump while excusing men on "their" side. Sometimes it can be even worse, to be around a man you’ve classed as “safe” and suddenly feel your face freeze when he says something that makes you flinch inside.

I keep thinking of what Michelle said. It hurts. It hurts.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 12:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [248 favorites]


Do you have anything more specific to say about them and their importance?

Campaigns talk about pretty much exactly what you would expect.

See also: the hundreds of former campaign workers who have said pretty much the same things publicly. It's a whole industry!
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:49 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


I've been wondering about the possible Donna Brazile leak of a debate question in the primaries. It seems like such a stupidly fruitless thing to breach ethics over that I'm skeptical it happened.
posted by bardophile at 12:50 PM on October 14, 2016


I think at a minimum Donna Brazille's abuse of her position at CNN is an important story, I'd also argue that Clinton lying about quite a few of her positions on the campaign trail from fracking to TPP is also a big deal.
We hire politicians for their ideas and their capabilities as deal makers. When the electorate tells Clinton she can fuck off with her love of fracking and TPP, she is allowed to be persuaded or at the very least make a good-faith effort to implement her electorate's desires on those issues regardless of her personal position. The obsession with flip flopping does a disservice to the country because it creates rigid politicians with no room to be moved on an issue.
posted by xyzzy at 12:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [81 favorites]


CNN has a summary of some of the careers being pulled down by Trump. He's so toxic.
posted by annsunny at 12:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


People in this thread claiming Podesta leak is not journalism would do well to read this piece.

I'd also wonder how you feel about the release of Trump's taxes given it's functionally the same thing with regards to privacy.
posted by sourbrew at 12:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


And I meant to add-- part of the reason it hurts is not only the humiliation, but the thought-- don't you want to know who women really are? Who they can be when they aren't living under siege?
posted by a fiendish thingy at 12:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


Fancy Journalist and Cozy Journalist should get the Pulitzer, I tell you
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


On the one hand, a candidate who complains about a "war on coal", says he wants to bring back coal jobs (with the absurd fig leaf of "clean coal"), and laments that we didn't take Iraq's oil, presumably to turn it into carbon.

On the other hand, a candidate's campaign manager was nervous about the political messaging of something with the word "tax" in it, and the candidate didn't commit to taxing carbon.

Yeah, there's definitely a scandal related to one candidate's positions on carbon emissions, but it has nothing to do with hacked emails.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [58 favorites]


Obama has apparently lifted restrictions on Cuban rum and cigars entering the US.

Dammit. I better stock up before the inevitable 300% price increase on my precious. I also worry the quality's going to plummet as they struggle to meet demand.

As someone who's enjoyed All Things Cuban over the last 20 years, I have such a weird, selfish view of the US opening up to it. It could well raise the opportunity bar for the common people there, if there's any real estate left, but I worry it's also going to create US-style poverty, and... gentrification (for lack of a better word) is going to ruin so much of what made Cuba so amazing. Maybe I'm just too romantic. Or too selfish. Because rum and cigars and street music.

Oh well, it's Havana Club 25 and TuKola over ice for this thread! Salud!
posted by rokusan at 12:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


sourbrew: Meanwhile the Podesta emails are arguably one of the most valuable journalistic releases in history in terms of the insight into a modern political campaign.

Well, alleged emails, released by a political organization run by a man with motivation to see upheaval in our election process, from a hack by Russian GRU/FSB operatives. If you want to talk journalism, start by not seeing this as an FOIA release.
posted by bluecore at 12:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [45 favorites]


Leaked email revelation: political operatives operate politically.
posted by mcstayinskool at 12:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


"I've been wondering about the possible Donna Brazile leak of a debate question in the primaries. It seems like such a stupidly fruitless thing to breach ethics over that I'm skeptical it happened."

Jake Tapper today was taking her to task for it, I think it's pretty clear at this point that it happened.

It's also a big deal because she was supposed to the olive branch to Sander's supporters after the corruption from the DNC in the primary, the leaks confirm that was more or less a hollow gesture at best.
posted by sourbrew at 12:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I think at a minimum Donna Brazille's abuse of her position at CNN is an important story,

I'm a cynical 50 year old New York Jew. My first experience with fucked up politics was the aftermath of Nixon.

There is literally nothing more important than getting ALL THE PEOPLE to the polls to vote on election day. NOTHING. Everything that detracts from that message is bad.
posted by mikelieman at 12:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [23 favorites]


Surely all the sexual assaults didn't happen in New York.

It's the room where it happens, man. The room where it happens.
posted by rokusan at 12:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


More context on Carlos Slim and NYT: Carlos Slim becomes top New York Times shareholder (Reuters business news, Jan. 14, 2015)
posted by filthy light thief at 12:52 PM on October 14, 2016


Dammit. I better stock up before the inevitable 300% price increase on my precious. I also worry the quality's going to plummet as they struggle to meet demand.

i'm sad that this will likely remove all opportunity for me to get in on the ground floor of the new oligarchy
posted by poffin boffin at 12:52 PM on October 14, 2016


a fiendish thingy, I wish I had more favorites for you. I know I don't have the energy to be on guard, all the time, anymore. And that's why I don't spend time with men.

That is just so crushing.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


"Well, alleged emails, released by a political organization run by a man with motivation to see upheaval in our election process, from a hack by Russian GRU/FSB operatives. If you want to talk journalism, start by not seeing this as an FOIA release."

No one has presented any proof that Russia is involved in this, literally no one.

Lot's of US intelligence officials linked to the DNC have said so, but they haven't provided any evidence, and after the run up to the Iraq war in 2003 you would do well to remember press reports about military interactions without credible evidence.
posted by sourbrew at 12:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


My biggest fear has been that sexism would keep Hillary from the Presidency. I'm so sorry she has to go through the mud-slinging, having to see (some of) the women her husband may have cheated with/ harassed. Stamina? I do not know how she does it, how she comes out smiling and working her ass off every day.
posted by theora55 at 12:54 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Fancy Journalist and Cozy Journalist should get the Pulitzer, I tell you.

I smell a children's book.
posted by rokusan at 12:54 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


This election is really about ethics in political journalism.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:54 PM on October 14, 2016 [172 favorites]


With regard to the emails, I have paid ZERO attention to them. Why? Because it has been nothingburgers all the way down, every time. They have cried wolf too many times.
posted by annsunny at 12:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [31 favorites]


https://theintercept.com/2016/10/13/on-wikileaks-journalism-and-privacy-reporting-on-the-podesta-archive-is-an-easy-call/

I'd also wonder how you feel about the release of Trump's taxes given it's functionally the same thing with regards to privacy.


You mean the 1995 release? I believe those were released by one of the signatories to the tax forms, which is a leetle different than a foreign power brute-force hacking the DNC. Also, Greenwald is not exactly a disinterested and objective third party here.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [22 favorites]


Real question: what do you think Trump has to do to hit bottom? He'll never lose all of his followers no matter what, but say, 80% of them?
posted by AFABulous at 12:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Sarah Smarsh (previously) on who's really voting for Trump:
Earlier this year, primary exit polls revealed that Trump voters were, in fact, more affluent than most Americans, with a median household income of $72,000 – higher than that of Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders supporters. Forty-four percent of them had college degrees, well above the national average of 33% among whites or 29% overall. In January, political scientist Matthew MacWilliams reported findings that a penchant for authoritarianism – not income, education, gender, age or race –predicted Trump support.

These facts haven’t stopped pundits and journalists from pushing story after story about the white working class’s giddy embrace of a bloviating demagogue.
posted by ChuraChura at 12:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [40 favorites]


Gotta love those people who wait for a new election thread to yell about emails and don't seem to care that they're yelling over a bunch of women talking about the way a miasma of sexism, sexual assault, and misogyny, a miasma that is now embodied in an actual candidate for President, affects their lives.

Emails. Yup. That's what's important here. Emails.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [189 favorites]


Dick Cavett continues to lay into Trump, and give no fucks: "Brilliant defense, Donald. That she isn't attractive enough for me to have assaulted her. So, if she had been, she'd have been a lucky girl?"
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:57 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


Hey so here's a scene I witnessed the other day as I walked past a kids' clothing consignment store:

DERSINS sees A YOUNG GIRL PERHAPS 7 YEARS OLD and her MOTHER browsing racks of halloween costumes outside the store.


MOTHER (holding out a cape): Do you want to be a superhero for halloween?

GIRL (scornful): No that's dumb. I want to be Hillary.



DERSINS exits, choking up a little.
posted by dersins at 12:57 PM on October 14, 2016 [256 favorites]


People in this thread claiming Podesta leak is not journalism would do well to read this piece:
And you would do well to understand that it is Assange's stated goal to put a "secrecy tax" on governments and political parties that cripples the exchange of ideas so that these groups will collapse or lose power. He is essentially talking about being a "benevolent" Big Brother. Thankfully there is a simple way to avoid paying his tax--encrypted communication. Now we just need to convince people not under FOIA to use it.
posted by xyzzy at 12:57 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


Real question: what do you think Trump has to do to hit bottom? He'll never lose all of his followers no matter what, but say, 80% of them?

"I've got them rednecks eating out of my hands! I'll pardon myself then watch them all bitch about it while I lower all my taxes and loot the treasury!"
posted by Talez at 12:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


sourbrew: I'd also wonder how you feel about the release of Trump's taxes given it's functionally the same thing with regards to privacy.
Individual income tax returns — including those of public figures — are private information, protected by law from unauthorized disclosure. Indeed, the Internal Revenue Service is barred from releasing any taxpayer information whatsoever, except to authorized agencies and individuals.

Like all other citizens, U.S. presidents enjoy this protection of their privacy. Since the early 1970s, however, most presidents have chosen to release their returns publicly. In the hope of making this information more widely available, the Tax History Project at Tax Analysts has compiled an archive of presidential tax returns.
Emphasis mine - presidential candidates release their tax records to show the voting public that they have nothing to hide regarding their personal finances. Given this long history of candidates opting for personal transparency, Trump looks bad for keeping his closed, making it seem like he's hiding something. Paired with his record of fraud and illegal financial activities, there's a very good chance he is hiding something.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


Dick Cavett

What? /me goes to google.
posted by mikelieman at 12:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Real question: what do you think Trump has to do to hit bottom? He'll never lose all of his followers no matter what, but say, 80% of them?

I think maybe getting caught on film hitting a woman would do it, but I'm not even sure of that anymore...
posted by infinitywaltz at 12:58 PM on October 14, 2016


Lot's of US intelligence officials linked to the DNC have said so, but they haven't provided any evidence

The first analysis was done by CrowdStrike, who are reputable in this sort of thing, and then the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and the DHS officially named Russia a week or two ago. I know you think there's not much evidence, but there's not really much controversy here about who actually did it.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 12:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


I'm still waiting for Podesta to release his actual long-form risotto recipe.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [75 favorites]


From Newsweek in 2009, Healthcare Protest Deja-vu: Welcome to 1994:

By the time the caravan had reached Seattle the threat of violence was constant. All week, talk radio hosts, both in the Northwest and on national broadcasts, implored their listeners to confront the Reform Riders to “show Hillary” their feelings about her. This "call to arms," as she described it, attracted menacing hordes, many of whom identified themselves as militia members, tax resisters and anti-abortion militants. She estimated that at least half of the 4,500 people in the audience of her Seattle speech were protesters. She agreed for the first time to wear a bulletproof vest. Rarely had she felt endangered, but this was different. During her speech, the catcalls, screaming, and heckling drowned out much of her remarks. When she left the stage and got into a limousine, hundreds of protesters surrounded the car. They were rabid with hatred. Several arrests were made by the Secret Service, which impounded two guns and a knife.

Across the country, the Reform Riders encountered demonstrators bearing signs like IT'S SOCIALISM STUPID and pro-life campaigners worried that their tax dollars would be funneled toward abortions. The protestors were "vocal, virulent, menacing, and well organized," shouting about guns, gays, and socialized medicine. Is any of this sounding familiar?


And, more than seven years after that piece was written (and eight years since the Carl Bernstein Clinton bio it quotes) - is any of THAT sounding familiar?

Sigh.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


No one has presented any proof that Russia is involved in this, literally no one.

Obama administration accuses Russian government of election-year hacking

So you're saying Obama is just saying this - which could potentially start a war - to help his friend Hillary? Yeah, okay.
posted by chris24 at 1:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [63 favorites]


"You mean the 1995 release? I believe those were released by one of the signatories to the tax forms, which is a leetle different than a foreign power brute-force hacking the DNC. Also, Greenwald is not exactly a disinterested and objective third party here."

No evidence that Russia is involved in the hacking, lots of finger pointing, but no evidence presented if you have some I would love to see it.

And there is no evidence that Marla Maples released the tax return she may have, but without evidence it's functionally the same kind of leak.

And Glenn Greenwald is one of the last real journalists, he criticizes both camps regularly.

Like him I have no love for Trump either, but Trump being an evolutionary reversion doesn't change the channel for me.

Here's a Chomsky quote that was as accurate in 98 during the Lewinsky scandal as it is now.

""Same thing is true here - when the press focuses on the sex lives of politicians, reach for your pocket, and see who’s pulling out your wallet, because those are not the issues that matter to people. I mean, they’re very marginal interest. The issues that matter to people are somewhere else, so as soon as you hear, you know, the press and presidential candidates and so on, talking about “values”, as I say, put your hand on your wallet - you know that something else is happening.""
posted by sourbrew at 1:00 PM on October 14, 2016


Real question: what do you think Trump has to do to hit bottom? He'll never lose all of his followers no matter what, but say, 80% of them?

I've said this from the beginning: there would have to be incontrovertible, or nearly incontrovertible, evidence that he actually molested a child under 12 years of age. That would probably do it. Anything less than that: nope, not a chance. The cognitive dissonance in his supporters is too strong.
posted by holborne at 1:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Real question: what do you think Trump has to do to hit bottom? He'll never lose all of his followers no matter what, but say, 80% of them?

I think maybe getting caught on film hitting a woman would do it, but I'm not even sure of that anymore...


Put a (D) after his name. Much of his support appears to be of the 'piss off the liberals' bent (Deplorables etc). They'd probably celebrate a tape of him hitting a woman.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


I wish anyone who cared about the emails was forced to do doc review for a day. They'd get over their OMG EMAILS SCANDALLLLLLL!!!1! real quick.

Right? Holy shit y'all, if you had read hundreds of thousands of boring ass business emails produced in discovery like I have, you'd be yawning at all this too. This is what any organization's emails look like. Shit talking clients, talking out problems, inappropriate personal shit, whining about coworkers and vendors and other businesses, tossing often rejected ideas around....none of this is necessarily evidence of nefarious misdeeds, and a political operative's emails are going to be as full of this kind of thing as some rando C-level executive or department head's are. Sometimes it's of prurient interest, sure, and sometimes it really is the smoking gun for your case. But mostly it's all just boring.
posted by yasaman at 1:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [100 favorites]


it's his sex life insofar as he's a rapist, true
posted by angrycat at 1:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [34 favorites]


When was the last time the serious, impartial journalists over at WikiLeaks released something that could possibly be damaging to Trump?
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [30 favorites]


""Same thing is true here - when the press focuses on the sex lives of politicians, reach for your pocket, and see who’s pulling out your wallet, because those are not the issues that matter to people. I mean, they’re very marginal interest. The issues that matter to people are somewhere else, so as soon as you hear, you know, the press and presidential candidates and so on, talking about “values”, as I say, put your hand on your wallet - you know that something else is happening.""

Dammit, dude, calling institutionalized sexism and normalizing sexual assault a marginal fucking issue is fucking bullshit. Enough.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [242 favorites]


"sex lives" is not the same as sexual assault. This is just fucking offensive. If you think an internal email is in any way equivalent to sexual assault then maybe take some time to think about your life. For real.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [222 favorites]


he criticizes both camps regularly.

ah, the truest sign of a superior intellect
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [62 favorites]


No one has presented any proof that Russia is involved in this, literally no one.

If Wikileaks is all about radical transparency, how come it doesn't release its own communications in real-time? Oh, operating in utter secrecy is apparently fine if you're handling stolen goods and trying to lead the press by the nose. Also, Glenn Greenwald can fuck right off.
posted by holgate at 1:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [41 favorites]


No evidence that Russia is involved in the hacking, lots of finger pointing, but no evidence presented if you have some I would love to see it.

Summary in the NY Times

CrowdStrike analysis

"I don't understand" <> "There's no evidence"
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 1:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [71 favorites]


And Glenn Greenwald is one of the last real journalists, he criticizes both camps regularly.

Sure, that's the mark of a real journalist. Criticize Hitler and FDR equally.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [61 favorites]


I'd also wonder how you feel about the release of Trump's taxes given it's functionally the same thing with regards to privacy.

Every candidate, every candidate, for several decades has released their tax returns. It is expected, though not required, that a candidate will make their tax returns public. Although there is a general expectation of privacy for any given person's tax returns, I don't think that extends to presidential nominees -- and Trump is a presidential nominee, sadly.

So, no, it's not functionally the same thing. It's not the same thing at all. Trump's tax returns were expected to be public and were not made public until they were leaked (and even then, not completely, nor for multiple years, so there's a difference in scale as well); Podesta's emails were expected to be private and were kept private until they were leaked.
posted by cjelli at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


reminder that the diediedead mefi killfile does still exist and can be a very restful thing to use in these trying times.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [29 favorites]


AFABulous: Real question: what do you think Trump has to do to hit bottom? He'll never lose all of his followers no matter what, but say, 80% of them?

Calling his supporters idiots and rubes, and thanking them for paying for another golden toilet so he can literally shit on their donations.

They don't care about his abuse to women, they love that he hates minorities and Muslims, and that he's a brash bully. But like him, I don't think they'd like direct attacks on them.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


when the press focuses on the sex lives of politicians

"Sex Lives of Politicians" does not describe the sexual assaults we're talking about, admitted to by that irredeemable degenerate pervert, Donald J. Trump.

And "Sexual Assault against Woman" is **THE** issue of the campaign.
posted by mikelieman at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [43 favorites]


Michelle Obama's speech left me speechless and overwhelmed, and what repeatedly struck me is how universal the experiences she spoke about are. Not once did she mention Trump's name, and yet she very effectively tied his actions to the experiences #YesAllWomen have had with toxic men, time after time, throughout their lives.

By refusing to name Trump, she denied the networks a quick sound byte--a 4-second clip of her "trashing" Trump that would serve as a fig leaf justifying a "Michelle Obama goes on the attack" headline. Instead, CNN--at least while I walked by a TV earlier--was discussing whether or not Donald Trump was the manifestation of every creepy, condescending, or abusive man that walks the earth.

It turns out "when they go low, we go high" is not just a moral code, but a pretty fucking impressive strategy when used effectively.
posted by duffell at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [136 favorites]


""sex lives" is not the same as sexual assault. This is just fucking offensive. If you think an internal email is in any way equivalent to sexual assault then maybe take some time to think about your life. For real."

I have already in this thread staked out that Trump deserves criminal punishment for sexual assault, I was merely quoting Chomsky.

It is possible to be upset with both, and being upset with one does not take away from the disgust with the other.
posted by sourbrew at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2016


See, here is the deal: If Trump gets elected, god knows what will happen to my neighbors, many of whom are Muslim and some of whom are virtually certainly undocumented Mexicans and El Salvadorans. If Trump gets elected, the Ryan budget will make it so that I virtually certainly will never retire. If Trump gets elected, the Medicaid expansions will probably be rolled back, meaning that my retired parents will once again have to take from the money they use for my mother's care so that they can instead pay $8000 a year to treat my brother's diabetes, since he cannot hold a full time job.

Right now, I do not give a shit about any "Hillary Clinton is a moderate neoliberal who is exactly typical for a powerful Democratic politician" revelations. I will care about them once again when the election is over, because at that point I will be able to do something about them, however small. At this point, the only thing I do by yelling about them is create the impression that somehow there's "equivalence" between the candidates.
posted by Frowner at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [104 favorites]


Here's a Chomsky quote...

How about this Chomsky quote:

"I'd 'absolutely' vote for Hillary Clinton."
posted by chris24 at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [142 favorites]


but it's also not like we've learned anything new about him.

I mean, this is more or less my take on the Podesta emails. All the worst stuff in the emails is more or less what I suspected about Clinton going in. We had a whole primary campaign season where many of us talked a lot about the reasons we distrusted Clinton, like her campaign's coziness with the banking industry and her tendency to be a little slippery on what exactly she believes in. The email revelations are all kind of old hat, to me.

Beyond that, most of my distaste for Clinton ISN'T based on what happens in the shadowy realms of email strategizing, but what she's done right out in the open. If she's talking out of both sides of her mouth in re How Good Is Fracking in a small room full of pro-frack frackmeisters, that's way less appalling to me than, like, her very openly considering Kissinger a source of advice as Secretary of State.

You should definitely keep talking about the emails, if you like. The emails just aren't a subject that's hugely important to me, personally, because after she won the Dem nomination, I decided I would probably be voting for her (and volunteering for her) even knowing what I disliked about her. I haven't seen anything in the leaks that make me dislike her more, just the same stuff about which I was already making the Sideshow Bob step-on-a-rake noise. I've been making that noise while voting for Democrats my whole life, though, so I'm pretty used to it I guess
posted by Greg Nog at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [35 favorites]


This is not about anyone's "sex life". It's about criminal assault against women. I'm quickly losing any respect for people who try to maintain that this is about anyone's sex life or affairs.
posted by gingerbeer at 1:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [71 favorites]


Yeah sourbrew, that's well uh..deplorable. This is about sexual assault not 'sex lives'.
posted by Jalliah at 1:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [25 favorites]


sourbrew, you still haven't pointed to anything specific in the emails that you find interesting, and neither did the article you linked to.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 1:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Sourbrew, please stop. It feels like you are trolling.

If you don't think people being concerned that a man who uses his power to sexually assault women is an issue, don't.
posted by annsunny at 1:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [56 favorites]


When we get into Chomsky quotes about sexual assault being of marginal interest we know an argument is no longer being made in good faith.
posted by xyzzy at 1:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [38 favorites]


Show of hands...As soon as Clinton is declared winner, Trump initiates a 50-state recount?
posted by Thorzdad at 1:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I live in Rhode Island, and we have a woman named Gina Raimondo as our governor. (We also have a Lt. Gov. aimed Dan who is...kind of a goober.) Anyway, yesterday a co-worker said that he fully expects Raimondo, being a powerful and competent Democratic woman, to get a job in D.C. when Hillary Clinton is elected president.

It struck me that I hadn't yet heard much speculation about who will form the new team after the Inauguration. Will it tilt toward women, or toward men, or be gender-balanced? Does it matter?

There is an official statement with name & titles online here, but I always understood that the initial staff doesn't stay for the long term. That is, they are specifically called the Transition Team because their role is to get departments & offices up and running, and then like as not they move on.

Are there any glaring holes in a Pres. HRC's announced senior staff? Is there any interesting speculation on who she might appoint? Is this a stale topic, and everyone but me has already talked it to death in the weedy ends of previous Election threads, when I started slapping PageDown a lot?
posted by wenestvedt at 1:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Can we reboot this thread?
posted by Scoop at 1:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [20 favorites]


[Couple comments removed. sourbrew, I believe you that you are trying to express your priorities about election-related discussion, but you are whatever your intentions coming in here real hard and loud in a way that is not working well, and you need to regroup and rework your approach if the message you're trying to send isn't "okay, enough about sexual assault, let's talk about what's really important". Please cool it.]
posted by cortex at 1:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [89 favorites]


Show of hands...As soon as Clinton is declared winner, Trump initiates a 50-state recount?

Donnie THREATENS to recount... But that sort of disappears in a news cycle or two.
posted by mikelieman at 1:07 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Show of hands...As soon as Clinton is declared winner, Trump initiates a 50-state recount?

I'd like him to name all fifty states, first. Unprompted.

(I've met Al Franken. Donald Trump is no Al Franken.)
posted by rokusan at 1:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [50 favorites]


I've been donating every time the Clinton campaign offers a sticker, pin, or sign, and now the stuff is starting to arrive. I am going to be drowning in merch by Election Day. Send help.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


"Ive had unique relationship with Trump. I was the one who put The Apprentice on NBC. I didn’t think he was going to run," Jeff Zucker says (reporter is live tweeting an event with Zucker)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:10 PM on October 14, 2016


[Fast moving thread, be sure to stop and refresh to make sure you aren't responding to something that's been deleted, especially if you're seeing a mod note in the mix.]
posted by cortex at 1:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


sourbrew: No one has presented any proof that Russia is involved in this, literally no one.

Joint Statement from the Department of Homeland Security and Office of the Director of National Intelligence on Election Security


The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations. The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts. These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process. Such activity is not new to Moscow—the Russians have used similar tactics and techniques across Europe and Eurasia, for example, to influence public opinion there. We believe, based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts, that only Russia's senior-most officials could have authorized these activities.
posted by bluecore at 1:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [31 favorites]


@briantashman
Trump on People magazine writer: "She's a liar. She is a lie-er. Check out her Facebook page. You'd understand."

Basically encouraging people to harass her on social media.
posted by chris24 at 1:12 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


> As soon as the Republicans nominated Donnie, "policy" stopped being relevant. If they wanted to talk about policy, they'd have nominated a politician, not an irredeemably degenerate sexual predator with NO POLICY EXPERIENCE.

Yes, thank you, THIS. When you nominate someone to represent your party for president and their idea of "policy" is "Build a wall and make the other guy pay for it!" and who says it would be a good idea for Russia to hack your opponent, you have demonstrated with complete, irrefutable clarity that you don't give a shit about policy.
posted by rtha at 1:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [54 favorites]


Real question: what do you think Trump has to do to hit bottom?

Put a (D) after his name.


I assume FoxNews already has this chyron all typed up and ready to place at the bottom of the screen during Trump's concession speech.
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


I think there are many policies that can come out of the country confronting the problem of sexual assault. Title IX is a law. Sexual assault laws are laws. The rules of evidence and the selection of judges are based on, among other things, laws. Statutes of limitations are laws. The EEOC was established by laws and regulations. Talking about sexual assault does not mean the election is suddenly "policy-free." Again, if the choice is "talk about tax policy" and "talk about the plague of sexual violence" I'm going to choose the latter because it's more important to me. And I'm a tax lawyer.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [54 favorites]


poffin boffin, thanks for the heads up about the kill files for filtering what you see (and who you see) in MeFi threads! For newbies like me:

Nancy for Chrome, diediedead for Firefox.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [28 favorites]


Personally, I love Hillary's policies so I'm good.
posted by agregoli at 1:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


zombieflanders: “conservatives: if clinton wins, bernie sanders runs the budget and there'll be taco trucks on every corner
liberals: can we vote NOW PLEASE?”
Considering the thousand years of darkness has turned out to be bullshit, I'm not holding my breath on the taco trucks.
posted by ob1quixote at 1:15 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


I will be more than happy to seriously discuss the shortcomings of the Clinton administration's policies (of which you can read in exhausting detail on her website any time you'd like) with all comers, on November 9. Well, maybe the 10th so i can have one day of just feeling good again.

Right now I'm too busy fending off a non-stop flood of rising bile and no small amount of retraumatization. I know it's sort of off-label usage, but these threads at this point are way more about processing than getting my wonk on. I'll be overjoyed to once again push my glasses up the bridge of my nose and crush some policy in about a month. Please leave a message after the tone.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:16 PM on October 14, 2016 [39 favorites]


Nancy for Chrome, diediedead for Firefox.

WHOA. this might be life-changing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


I will be more than happy to seriously discuss the shortcomings of the Clinton administration's policies (of which you can read in exhausting detail on her website any time you'd like) with all comers, on November 9.

I think I'll wait until January 21.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


Trump is 100% going to endlessly challenge the legitimacy of Clinton's victory. He started his "political career" spouting birtherism bullshit, after all. Challenging the basic rules of democracy and decency is the only thing consistent about his politics. I only hope, when he starts spewing the inevitable, content creators accept the lost viewers/page views and finally refuse to give him a platform.
posted by AtoBtoA at 1:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


It’s Official: This Election Is Driving Americans Nuts
posted by robbyrobs at 1:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


That is not evidence, do you seriously not remember the run up to the Iraq war with the press and the government pounding the drums of war with the reports of WMD's in Iraq.

So you're again saying Obama is just doing this - which could potentially start a war with a country with thousands of nuclear weapons - to help his friend Hillary? And you think this sounds reasonable?
posted by chris24 at 1:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Anyways, shaking it off. Here is my email opinion because I did take some time this morning to read some of them. If you read them and especially have experience with actual campaign or really any sort of political activism that includes messaging to large groups of people they are interesting because it is insight into how a particular campaign works. Like they're neat from looking at how campaigns works, how politicians deal with personal vs public service concerns and for people who like lots of wonky political operative voyarism.

If you take the parts that people are saying are 'scandals' then read the actual email most of the time it's a like 'what?' that's not what that email is about. Perfect example was trying to float the Clinton hates 'everyday Americans' like she hates people. Woah, that sounds bad right? Uh nope *sad trombone* not at all. It's all about her not liking the actual phrase as in using the words. So basically a mildly interesting email about what phrases and words to use in her messaging. This is so of thing is such a normal and mundane part of a campaign that it's painful. Hell it's what you learn you have to do in Political Campaigning 101.

Maybe it's 'news' to people who don't have much experience or exposure to how behind the scenes works but it's not new news. And honestly as far as behind the scenes campaign chatter goes these ones that have been released are actually pretty boring.
posted by Jalliah at 1:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [48 favorites]


Policy is one thing. Culture is another. Not to get all dewy-eyed optimist but if bringing this stuff to light and overwhelmingly rejecting the reprehensible statements and actions of Donald Trump by defeating him in a Mondalesque landslide moves the needle a little bit in terms of how we as a people think about how we treat women in this culture and maybe recognize that we have been doing fucking bad and need to do better then that will be a good thing that comes out of his horrific mess.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [29 favorites]


Dick Cavett

What? /me goes to google.


Yes, THAT Dick Cavett. Dude is on Facebook, and he's angry and on a roll. He's holding nothing back, and has had to edit himself after posting a number of times. Highly recommended.
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


President Evan a very conservative coalition dreamed this up at Stein Erickson's lodge in Park City, last summer. This is a well thought out plan to subvert this election.

By that standard, so was the reboot of Battlestar Galactica. In this scenario, robotic aliens from the stars launch a sudden nuclear attack on Washington shortly before Election Day, wiping out most of the chain of succession and catapulting Education Secretary Arne Duncan into the presidency.

IT COULD HAPPEN! WAKE UP, SHEEPLE!
posted by Naberius at 1:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


[Folks, for real, slow down and reload and please don't keep chaining on an argument that I've already nixed a chunk of. sourbrew, I really meant cool it; just give this thread a pass entirely at this point, hit the contact form if you need to but stop responding in here.]
posted by cortex at 1:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


Trump supporter shoves protestor, puts him in headlock during rally...

...and the crowd loved it. I can't for these people to be repudiated at the polls.
posted by Lyme Drop at 1:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


As to what Trump could do to lose support, well, as he said, he could shoot someone and not lose votes. I'm thinking that if he started declaring himself (in all seriousness, as in began to embrace that part of him) as a member of some of the most derided groups, it might hurt him. Like something about having finally read the Koran, he's converting. Or an announcement that he's starting hormone therapy and asks that we now use "they" as his pronoun.

But without actually identifying with the oppressed people he's been shitting on, I don't think he could lose votes. I don't think proof of him molesting a 12 year old girl would get him in that much trouble. If it was a boy, then shit would go down. But even then, I'm not sure. Because at least he would appoint judges who are vowing to strike down Roe v. Wade and uphold Citizens United.
posted by Hactar at 1:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


It’s Official: This Election Is Driving Americans Nuts

Pshaw. We proved that empirically two threads ago.
posted by mikelieman at 1:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Thorzdad: Show of hands...As soon as Clinton is declared winner, Trump initiates a 50-state recount?

Recounts are typically discussed when it's a close race, because it's assumed that counts are generally close to accurate. That's the beauty of a landslide: it would require serious and systematic counting/ rigging, where a close race can be nudged and the offending party could get away with it (*cough* Ohio 2004 *cough*).

If there's a significant win for HRC, as it's looking, anyone in charge of recounts would laugh at Donnie. Or they should, because if they screwed up so much on the first count as to be able to flip the vote in a re-count, they did a terrible job the first time.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Somehow I missed this earlier but WTF? Now saying Clinton's not good looking enough?

@Alex_Panetta
Holy lord. Trump: Clinton walks in front of me during the debate. Walks in front of me. "Believe me, I wasn't impressed."
posted by chris24 at 1:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


That doesn't mean that there isn't a there there though, even if the more or less complete decline of the 4th estate in America makes drawing attention to it nearly impossible.T

The press HAS been covering the emails, even the big ones like the Washington Post and the NYT.
It's just that they really aren't that scandalish and once you read them, make a few comments about them then that's it.
What should be more of scandal though which I do think should be the bigger story is about the actual hacks and leaks themselves as well as who they're specifically being given to first.
posted by Jalliah at 1:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


I mean, it's unfortunate that we can't have an election about policy, but the election about policy was the primary. Now we have an election about whether women and people of color are fully human.

But the thing is, we will never have an real election "about policy" that will matter to me, because this is a right wing country. I will always choose the leftmost electable candidate (Bernie in the primary, Hillary right now) and the leftmost electable candidate will never represent what I believe.

And yet I'll still vote for the leftmost electable candidate even if they are deeply unsatisfactory, because as a visibly queer trans person I know that a right-wing victory will make my life shittier in immediate, obvious ways. And the degree of racist and anti-semitic calls for violence in this election has revealed to me that just keeping the people I care about safe is a more immediate concern than I'd ever believed.

Sure, if we have an election where both candidates are social justice oriented but one candidate is a big environmentalist and one candidate is big on women's issues, then there will be a policy debate that matters to me, because there will be a meaningful choice on the table.

So yeah, I don't think that Hillary's foreign policy is trivial, or that her palling around with bankers is inconsequential. And yet it's also completely unsurprising to me and only relevant when I can do something about it.
posted by Frowner at 1:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [110 favorites]


The presidential election has turned into a referendum on whether women are full human beings or objects men own

That was inevitable the minute Clinton decided to run. Or any woman did.
posted by emjaybee at 1:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [24 favorites]


Maybe it's 'news' to people who don't have much experience or exposure to how behind the scenes works but it's not new news.

Well, that's the standard distinction between "public interest" and "interesting to the public". But like I said last thread, it normalises behaviour that will be mostly be used against dissidents and/or for disinformation. It's a DDOS against functional politics.
posted by holgate at 1:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Nancy for Chrome, diediedead for Firefox.

Just to throw it out there for consideration:
Up to you, but it's generally part of the mefi spirit that you read as well as write here. It's a community. That's why we have flat chronological threads. Killfiles... well do what you have to do to be safe in extreme cases, but killfiles have been discouraged from the beginning.
posted by ctmf at 1:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [32 favorites]




Somehow I missed this earlier but WTF? Now saying Clinton's not good looking enough?

@Alex_Panetta
Holy lord. Trump: Clinton walks in front of me during the debate. Walks in front of me. "Believe me, I wasn't impressed."


I think it's more him trying to counteract the fact that everyone saw him following her around and purposely standing behind her. He says he never did that, she was the one who kept walking in front of him.
posted by Jalliah at 1:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Erm, waitaminnit.... Dick Cavett and Dan Rather are Facebookers worth reading? Whoa, 2016 really is weird.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [20 favorites]




sourbrew: No one has presented any proof that Russia is involved in this, literally no one.

Joint Statement from the Department of Homeland Security and Office of the Director of National Intelligence on Election Security


It's impossible to overestimate how difficult it is to definitively determine the source of a hack like this, especially if it was, in fact, carried out by a state-sponsored intelligence service. There is no foolproof computer forensic method available that could definitely determine the source of a hack. Even if a signature was placed on the desktop saying "PUTIN WUZ HERE" we wouldn't know it was the Russians. Files left behind that point to Russian security services might be decoys placed there deliberately to point the blame at the Russians, by, say, the Chinese, or by American freelancers working at someone else's behest. Encryption keys and signatures that match other attacks could be stolen from those other hackers for the purpose of masquerading as them. Ip addresses hardcoded into software could be decoys. It's all smoke and mirrors. Truthfully, sophisticated hackers of that kind of skill level really ought to leave almost no trace, which makes the traces they do leave suspicious. I'm deeply skeptical of all claims that we have narrowed the culprits down to Russian intelligence services. It might even be the case that our own intelligence services want to place the blame on the Russians for their own spook-related reasons. We really have no idea, and anybody who tells you that they know for sure is bullshitting you.

But even if the Russians did hack Podesta and leak to Wikileaks, that doesn't diminish the journalistic importance of these fascinating emails. Which point to no criminality but just business-as-usual political operations. They shouldn't turn any voters away from Clinton, who gives us no big surprises in them. But they are definitely of great historical interest.
posted by dis_integration at 1:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


for the House to effectively lead a coup d'état and elect him over the wishes of tens of millions of voters in the United States who don't even know who he is would be unprecedented.

It is not a coup d'etat when a political body uses a constitutional option that has been in existence for three hundred years and has been used before. It's reasonable to call it unfair or unjust, but it in no way equates to a /Revolution/.
posted by corb at 1:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


It’s Official: This Election Is Driving Americans Nuts

I really need these links right now. I see people engaged in the election here at MeFi, but in my life nobody else seems to be freaking out about it the way I'm freaking out about it. I am up at 3 sweating and shaking.

BREAKING: 3 right-wing militia members arrested for planning attacks at a mosque & a housing complex in Kansas, targeting Somali refugees.

And this is exactly only one of the reasons I'm up late freaking out.

Damn this election, damn 2016, damn Donald Trump.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


I think it's more him trying to counteract the fact that everyone saw him following her around and purposely standing behind her. He says he never did that, she was the one who kept walking in front of him.

I get that, but the "Believe me, I wasn't impressed" from everything I'm reading seemed to be a not so subtle 'she doesn't have a great ass' comment.
posted by chris24 at 1:31 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Trump supporter shoves protestor, puts him in headlock during rally...

I know we're way, way, way past this point now, but it still enrages me that police remove protesters from these political events. It makes no goddamn sense at all.
posted by odinsdream at 1:31 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


I think it's more him trying to counteract the fact that everyone saw him following her around and purposely standing behind her.

Instead, it suggests that he, a 70-year-old man, still habitually checks out the rear ends of women, even when those women have literally demonstrated that they don't want to touch him. There is not enough soap in America to scrub away that feeling of squick.
posted by holgate at 1:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [37 favorites]


I get that, but the "Believe me, I wasn't impressed." from everything I'm reading seemed to be a not so subtle she doesn't have a great ass comment.

Ah got it. Yeah probably. It seems to be one of his political themes of the day so it would fit.
posted by Jalliah at 1:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


dis_integration: You are fundamentally incorrect. Advanced Persistent Threats (APT) use tools that they themselves wrote. They have distinct signatures, languages, and strings. I've been targeted by APTs and hacked by them. I know.

Unless someone stole Cozy Bear's code, learned both how to use it and the russian language, it was Cozy Bear.
posted by Freen at 1:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


I've managed to not get too involved in the election either face to face online, but this morning a mid-30s woman I know jumped into a face-to-face conversation with "you know all those women wanted to sleep with him because he's famous." I literally had no clue where to begin. On the bright side, she said she already didn't like him because of his attitude towards other countries, so, yay I guess? I'm still all out of "can" on this election. Last night a friend of a friend was all over Facebook with "yes he says unacceptable things, but a vote for Hillary is a vote for chopping up babies." I ended up muting that friend on media because while they have smart, kind things to say, my blood pressure can't take it. Can it be the 9th already? Hoping to find by absentee ballot in the mail when I get home so I can do my part...
posted by Alterscape at 1:35 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Real question: what do you think Trump has to do to hit bottom? He'll never lose all of his followers no matter what, but say, 80% of them?

I believe that there is almost nothing Trump could do, including: ironclad evidence of sexual molestation of a prepubescent child, being caught on tape disparaging his supporters, pulling down his pants and taking a literal shit on stage at the third debate, announcing at a rally that he intends to repeal the Second Amendment, homosexual sex tape, ironclad evidence of having insisted upon and/or paid for multiple abortions, video evidence of striking a woman, shooting a random person dead on live national television, pissing on a statue of Jesus, anything anyone else has proposed anywhere in this thread, or any combination thereof, that would lose him the support of 80% of his current supporters.

Were all of these things to occur, we'd hear some combination of 1) it's a dirty Clinton trick, 2) the video/audio/broadcast was faked, 3) she/he/they deserved it, 4) he's just saying that but obviously he doesn't mean it, 5) well I don't agree with him and of course that's horrible but Hillary is still worse, and 6) but Supreme Court!

He might lose 50%.

The one thing I could see maybe losing him 80% of his supporters would be if he had about 60% of his supporters killed and was totally open and honest about having done this. But that would take a lot of organization and time, either of which he has. So: literally nothing.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 1:35 PM on October 14, 2016 [28 favorites]


You know, I'm not much of a person for political speeches. They mostly bore me, even the ones that make other people go, "Wow!" That's OK, though. I'm a policy voter, so I puzzled at the speeches, shrugged, researched policy positions and went on from there.

But I watched Michelle Obama's speech because, somehow, I thought it might be important.

And it was.

There, this one time, was someone who spoke to me. There was someone saying something that needed to be heard.
posted by kyrademon at 1:35 PM on October 14, 2016 [35 favorites]


it still enrages me that police remove protesters from these political events.

And we now have to imagine cops at Trump rallies wearing trumphats when off-duty, because of cops elsewhere wearing trumphats when on-duty.
posted by holgate at 1:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


In appreciation ( apologies to Eugene Levy )
We are the MeFi Mods so pity us.

The users are brats; the comments are hideous.

We're gonna smoke and drink and moderate.

We are the MeFi Mods!
Srsly, THANK YOU.
posted by mikelieman at 1:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


Even if McMuffin were to win Utah, and in the very extremely unlikely event that there is a tie in electoral votes, for the House to effectively lead a coup d'état and elect him over the wishes of tens of millions of voters in the United States who don't even know who he is would be unprecedented. There would be protests and riots over such an act. The outcome would be as bad as a Trump presidency — possibly worse, in some respects.

You might be right about the reaction, but as corb mentioned it is fully within the constitution and considering the general unpopularity of both candidates it would almost be an example of the system working if you tilt your head funny and stab a ice pick in one eye.
posted by charred husk at 1:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


The MeFites United team at the Hillary for America online call tool is now live!

To join, go to https://www.hillaryclinton.com/calls/teams/d89cb034-6558-412a-a5ee-53ff258b3425/ .

The tool gives you everything you need to get started, and you can even do a practice session if you want.

Calling other voters has really made me feel better about the election - and as I said in another thread, it can help break down stereotypes. You'll talk to lots of people who may fit the reportedly pro-Trump demographics ... who are nevertheless planning to vote for Hillary.

You can choose from a long list of states to call, and focus on calling voters or volunteers.

There's at least one State list you can call as well, if you want to call for both Hillary AND a down-ticket race.

If you find yourself anxious about making calls, remember:
  • You can make a single call. You don't have to do a dozen. Do as many (or as few) as you feel up for.
  • Most of the time, you'll get voicemail. (I probably get voicemail or no answer 80-90% of the time.) It still counts as a call! You're helping confirm that phone numbers are still working and haven't been disconnected.
  • If you do talk to someone, there's a good chance they'll be positive and enthusiastic and polite, and you'll feel good about having spoken with a complete stranger who's also supporting Hillary.
Important notes: This team is not endorsed or in any way affiliated with MetaFilter; I just made it because I love this community and immediately thought of MeFites when I saw the Team button appear. In the vitally important Mayor of MetaTalk race, vote #1 Quidnunc Kid. And I chose the cat icon for the team because, of course, cats in scanners etc.

To everyone who joins up and calls (or DOESN'T join the team but makes calls anyway) - thank you!
posted by kristi at 1:37 PM on October 14, 2016 [167 favorites]


Franz Ferdinand's new song "Demagogue" up now on 30 Songs 30 Days site.
posted by emjaybee at 1:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I get that, but the "Believe me, I wasn't impressed." from everything I'm reading seemed to be a not so subtle she doesn't have a great ass comment.

Shooting the moon: no longer just a strategy for Hearts, but apparently Trump's campaign strategy.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I know we're way, way, way past this point now, but it still enrages me that police remove protesters from these political events.

If it makes you feel better, this link shows the aggressor being removed as well. What doesn't make sense to me is that Trump is saying something about how the protester is doing something disrespectful to the flag, but they appear to be fighting over a rainbow flag.
posted by peeedro at 1:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I love love love that right-wing news outlets are getting 'Emails: Clinton hates "everyday Americans"' headlines out of her speechwriters deleting cliché phrases.
posted by Mocata at 1:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


I am joining the call team and will add it to the wiki. Thanks for setting it up kristi!
posted by zachlipton at 1:43 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]




What doesn't make sense to me is that Trump is saying something about how the protester is doing something disrespectful to the flag, but they appear to be fighting over a rainbow flag.

It's disrespectful of the rainbow flag not to be an American flag instead. You know, flaunting it in front of everyone. Trump totally wouldn't have cared if it had been a rainbow flag in private, but making a huge deal out of not being an American flag is just shoving it down everyone's throat.
posted by skewed at 1:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


>I love love love that right-wing news outlets are getting 'Emails: Clinton hates "everyday Americans"' headlines out of her speechwriters deleting cliché phrases.

Anything other than little mickey mouse operations? Because that is a huge error. I'd be interested in seeing examples, but you can message them to me directly if we'd rather not put links to shitty media in here for no good reason.
posted by beau jackson at 1:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Greenwald, Trump and Assange are three men who share a common hatred of Hillary Clinton and the Government of the United States. They may have different visions for what comes next but they clearly want to destroy America. They don't care who that hurts, what dictators it comforts, or what tyranny is unleashed as a consequence. Assange and Greenwald seem to think that if only America was gone the world would transform itself into a anarchist capitalist libertarian world of peace, justice and freedom. Trump's vision is that America will have his name on it and now to his ego. He will be feared, loved and infallible. These fantasies are absurd to anyone who considers the real and complex challenges facing us such as environmental ruin, refugees, violent religious extremists, violent despots and inequality.
posted by humanfont at 1:45 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


@brianstelter
"Trump: "The media is, indeed, SICK, and it's making our country sick, and we're going to stop it. We're going to stop it."

Stop it?"

Fascism on line 1.
posted by chris24 at 1:46 PM on October 14, 2016 [29 favorites]


I'm not really sure why people are having trouble understanding how the qualifier "effectively" in front of "coup d'état" alters it. Everyone understands what the (marginally fleshed out) rules are for House selection of candidates without an electoral majority. That doesn't change the fact that certain applications of those rules would be pretty awful. See earlier discussions about how hollering "first amendment!" as a defense of shitty speech means you can come up with no better defense of your words than the fact that they're not outright illegal.

Real question: what do you think Trump has to do to hit bottom? He'll never lose all of his followers no matter what, but say, 80% of them?

I think maybe getting caught on film hitting a woman would do it, but I'm not even sure of that anymore...


Don't kid yourself. They would find a reason that she incited it and then they'd use it to say see, Trump treats women the same way as he does men. She wants to be treated the same as a man, right? Etc whatever deplorables all the way down.
posted by phearlez at 1:47 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


One fact from our FL poll that helps explain why it will be so hard for Trump to come back: his favorability with undecideds is literally 0

mfw
posted by Talez at 1:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


but they appear to be fighting over a rainbow flag.

Actually, watching more closely, the guy doing the shoving and head-locking is wearing a shirt that says "Gays for Trump", he has a big Human Rights Coalition yellow and blue equality sticker on his MAGA hat, so I assume the rainbow flag was already in his hand before the scuffle began. Takes all kinds.
posted by peeedro at 1:48 PM on October 14, 2016


@pppolls are the best trolls. I want whoever runs their social media to be my friend.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:49 PM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


Every time I think about how close this man came to the presidency, and how many people still support him, I feel so, so bitter.

I mean, everyone knows the world isn't fair. But how can it be that someone whose only merits are hating the right people loudly enough is so successful? He's going to lose the presidency, but he should never have come close in the first place. He's not smart. He doesn't know anything about politics. He's not a skilled businessman.

He's not even a skilled showman, like people thought at the beginning of the election. He doesn't even know how to work a crowd--if he did he could have won this election, or at least come close. He had more than 20 years of the Republican party laying the groundwork for him. He's the festering boil on the butt of white masculinity. He can't expand his appeal beyond his base because he has no self-control or awareness. He talks like an infomercial.

I just--I keep coming back to the fact that this self-deluded asshole thinks he is where he is because of merit. And that there are billions of people better than him in every way who are struggling and wondering what they're doing wrong.

I just ... am past the point of understanding people who support him.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 1:49 PM on October 14, 2016 [35 favorites]


"NEW: Hope Hicks on evidence Pence mentioned: "I didn't say that. Governor Pence did. I will let you know when we have more information."" --@SopanDeb

So Pence claimed there'd be evidence against Trump's accusers in "probably a matter of hours," that was many hours ago and no evidence. Does anybody in this campaign talk to each other?
posted by zachlipton at 1:49 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


@joshtpm
Congrats, GOP. You nominated Bill Cosby.

@jperetz
Bill Cosby actually gave money to charities...
posted by chris24 at 1:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [73 favorites]


Assange and Greenwald seem to think that if only America was gone the world would transform itself into a anarchist capitalist libertarian world of peace, justice and freedom.

I'm nodding so hard at this extremely true comment that my spine is making the Scooby Doo bongo noise
posted by Greg Nog at 1:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [30 favorites]


I think maybe getting caught on film hitting a woman would do it, but I'm not even sure of that anymore...

"I don't know that woman, I've never met that woman, I've not seen the video, the video doesn't show what you think it shows, I never hit that woman, It looks like a hit but it was really just me congratulating her, and if I did hit her, I had a good reason for it, also Clinton has hit women." [FAKE]
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Right wing terrorists being arrested practically on the eve of a divisive election? I am so, so shocked.
posted by xyzzy at 1:51 PM on October 14, 2016



Assange and Greenwald seem to think that if only America was gone the world would transform itself into a anarchist capitalist libertarian world of peace, justice and freedom.


It's basically TEOTWAWKI-ism for leftists.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Factoid: I did not recall that HRC's Birthday is October 26, 1947
posted by mikelieman at 1:53 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


So Pence claimed there'd be evidence against Trump's accusers in "probably a matter of hours," that was many hours ago and no evidence. Does anybody in this campaign talk to each other?

The exculpatory evidence will be released just as soon as the audit is complete, okay?
posted by dis_integration at 1:54 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Every time I think about how close this man came to the presidency

It ain't over yet, and even if we're up with only a few minutes to go we need to run up the score and let 'em know there's no way he even deserved to be on the field.
posted by cmfletcher at 1:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]



@pppolls are the best trolls. I want whoever runs their social media to be my friend.


Me too.
And new Florida poll in 5 - 10 mins!
posted by Jalliah at 1:55 PM on October 14, 2016


Factoid: I did not recall that HRC's Birthday is October 26, 1947

Woooo, we are co-Birthday Girls [so excited!]
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Does anybody in this campaign talk to each other?

PENCE: I'm going on the Today Show. Any talking points I should have about the recent allegations?

TRUMP: We'll have these horrible lies debunked in a matter of hours, Mike. Completely taken apart and discredited. Believe me. Matter of hours.

[a few hours later]

TRUMP: [at rally] ...and besides, these women were soooo unattractive, why would I even want to [makes underhand grabbing gesture] them? Come on!

PENCE: [backstage] Was that it?

CONWAY: That was it.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [84 favorites]


@ditzkoff
if you're accused of multiple sexual assaults, a strange thing to say is, "If I *were* going to do it, it wouldn't be with that person"
posted by chris24 at 1:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [47 favorites]


For me this will always be the election where I had to explain to my 6-year-old son what a pussy is and why a presidential candidate would want to grab one. I know this is a relatively minor complaint, but it's plenty enough for me to add one more FUCK YOU, TRUMP to the pile.
posted by Lyme Drop at 1:57 PM on October 14, 2016 [84 favorites]


"I am frequently asked how Ron Swanson would weigh in on this election. I was able to contact a source close to Ron and here is the result:" --@Nick_Offerman (text below is an image, which I've transcribed, because I'm really sick of tweets that are text in images, and they aren't accessible)

"Ron wouldn't think much of Trump. First of all, he'd be very sad that a businessman entered politics. Huge step backwards. He had it made in the private sector and be blew it! Doesn't speak well of his decision making. Second, he went bankrupt 4-6 times, depending on who you believe. Ron does not like businessmen getting bailed out by taxpayers. Third, Trump disrespects women. Ron likes women. Because they are human beings and deserve to be treated with basic dignity. Fourth, his boys are fatuous suck-ups with slick hair.

Ron would not like Hillary either. She is a career politician. Ron has no love of career politicians. But he would certainly vote Hillary over Trump, if he had to choose between the two. Or he would write in Merle Haggard or Willie Nelson."
posted by zachlipton at 1:57 PM on October 14, 2016 [38 favorites]


Here is Trump mimicking the sexual assault motions that he has been accused of.

I must confess I often mimic a jerking-off motion when Trump or his minions are talking.
"You know what we call a person like that in Pittsburgh? A jagoff," Cuban continued. "Is there any bigger jagoff in the world than Donald Trump?"
posted by kirkaracha at 1:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


The exonerating evidence to the charges of sexual assault is under routine audit. It will be available as soon as the audit has concluded.
posted by peeedro at 1:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


@ppppolls is one of my favorite accounts to follow this season

Thank you melissasaurus! Followed:

@SoCalPhillie: @ppppolls have spoken with internal pollsters in most battleground states showing trump up by avg 4%. 😉
@ppppolls: hope they got paid in advance
posted by lalex at 1:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [27 favorites]


TEOTWAWKI-ism

This was a new one for me, I thought you just super fucked up Teotihuacan...
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm really, really looking forward to not having Donald to kick around anymore.

Seems weird that the comments that invoke this don't seem to take into account that the "last press conference" Dick Nixon ever gave was followed by Dick Nixon coming back even stronger less than six years later. Does anyone really look forward to a stronger Trump in 2020 or 2024?
posted by blucevalo at 1:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Oh, man. I encourage you all to go visit @ppppolls entire timeline while you're waiting for the new poll to drop. The way they are trolling the Trumpets is absolutely a masterclass.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


@ditzkoff
if you're accused of multiple sexual assaults, a strange thing to say is, "If I *were* going to do it, it wouldn't be with that person"


Sadly, it's not strange at all. It's bad and it's dumb and it's gross, but it's all too normal.
posted by Etrigan at 1:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


[Meme shot of Trump gesturing lewdly at a rally]

This generation's If I Did It.
posted by tilde at 2:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


I want whoever runs their social media to be my friend.

It's Tom Jensen, the firm's director.
posted by holgate at 2:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Joined the Mefites call team! What fun, let's go out there and make some calls. If we make enough, we can get on the team leaderboard. Let's make our competitors cry.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


@ppppolls: Our new Florida poll- Hillary Clinton 46, Donald Trump 42, Gary Johnson 5, Jill Stein 1. Was 45/43 2 weeks ago:
posted by Existential Dread at 2:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Fahrenthold has confirmed that Boy Scout membership dues were $7 in October 1989. Why do we care? Because the Trump Foundation donated exactly $7 to the Boy Scouts of America. It's a piddling little thing, but the only way this makes sense is if he used the Foundation to pay his son's scouts membership for the year.
posted by zachlipton at 2:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [208 favorites]


I'm still surprised at how none of the republican candidates found anything close to this on Trump. Didn't they do any research at all on his background? Are they all so incompetent so as to to overlook all this?
posted by asra at 2:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Joined the Mefites call team! What fun, let's go out there and make some calls. If we make enough, we can get on the team leaderboard. Let's make our competitors cry.

Those Kuro5hin hacks won't know what hit them.
posted by Talez at 2:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


So Pence claimed there'd be evidence against Trump's accusers in "probably a matter of hours," that was many hours ago and no evidence. Does anybody in this campaign talk to each other?

I would completely understand if no one in the Trump/Pence campaign wanted to talk to anyone else in the Trump/Pence campaign. God knows I don't want to talk to them.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


So really no change. Which is fine, really, though it would be nice to see Hillary's lead moving out of margin of error.
posted by tavella at 2:03 PM on October 14, 2016


@ppppolls
Trump's last ditch attack isn't likely to work- only 35% of FL voters think it's fair to hold Hillary responsible for anything Bill's done
posted by Jalliah at 2:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


I made a Hillary caller so happy last night when I said "I'm already voting for her and I donate to her!"
posted by emjaybee at 2:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


BREAKING: 3 right-wing militia members arrested for planning attacks at a mosque & a housing complex in Kansas, targeting Somali refugees.

It's like we finally found those three poisoned Skittles. Turns out it was the white ones all along.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:07 PM on October 14, 2016 [105 favorites]


It's a piddling little thing, but the only way this makes sense is if he used the Foundation to pay his son's scouts membership for the year.

So much other stuff in those early years fits that pattern: memberships at the Met and other non-profits. He clearly thought the Foundation was simply his piggy bank to dip into for charity stuff, regardless of the rules on self-dealing.
posted by holgate at 2:07 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


@ppppolls
Trump's net favorability in Florida has declined 11 points in the last 2 weeks. From -11 (42/53) to -22 (37/59):
posted by Jalliah at 2:07 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


PPP's full write-up on the latest FL poll is really good. It goes into a lot of factors for why Trump isn't losing his base (spoiler alert: they're cult-like and reject facts).
posted by melissasaurus at 2:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


kristi, thanks! I wonder if it will credit the team with calls I made before joining? Doesn't really matter I guess, just curious.
posted by HotToddy at 2:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump's last ditch attack isn't likely to work- only 35% of FL voters think it's fair to hold Hillary responsible for anything Bill's done

Only! Well, I suppose that will have to do for Florida, for now.

It's hilarious to me that Trump just expects Obama to get these accusations as a matter of course. For the last nine years, ratfuckers have been turning this country upside down to try to get personal dirt on that man. The best they managed is that he went to a church where the preacher was angrier than he was.
posted by Countess Elena at 2:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [27 favorites]


Didn't they do any research at all on his background? Are they all so incompetent so as to to overlook all this?
This has been extensively discussed on cable news over the last few days. During the primaries there was a reluctance to spend money on oppo for an unserious candidate and it was too late by the time the field had significantly narrowed.

The head of a #nevertrump Super PAC was on cable last night claiming that she had scads of oppo and that this excuse doesn't really work for her. She also stated that her oppo made the recent accusations unsurprising.
posted by xyzzy at 2:12 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I have stopped frequenting these threads because I work on election stuff for my job and it's taking too much space in my psyche lately. But Wordshore, I love how you put these FPPs together and I find myself dropping into them when something big breaks because you all really bring it with the links and the quips and the analysis.

My friend and I are hosting a calling party this weekend using the online calling tool! We live in a royal-blue state so that tool is such a great resource.
posted by lunasol at 2:12 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


The best nugget from that PPP write-up (emphasis mine):
Undecided voters, by a 29 point margin, would rather have Obama than Trump. Those folks don't like Hillary Clinton or else they'd already be voting for her, but it seems they might go Clinton, or they might go third party, or they might stay home. But they're not likely to move to Trump, who literally not a single undecided voter in our poll said they had a positive opinion of.
posted by nicepersonality at 2:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [20 favorites]




At this point, the only way Trump could surprise me would be to rip the skin mask off his face and reveal he's an undead Vladimir Lenin on national television.
posted by zarq at 2:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


it still enrages me that police remove protesters from these political events. It makes no goddamn sense at all.

....In this particular instance were speaking of the police removing a man from the event after one of the other spectators put him in a chokehold. You'd rather the police have just let him be pummeled?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Wow, $7 to the BSA. It really sounds like he has treated it as the Donald J. Trump Tax-Free Checkbook instead of a charity foundation.
posted by fings at 2:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


In another reality, this entire election would be the perfect setup for a Mission: Impossible movie.
posted by ZeusHumms at 2:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


More from PPP (emphasis added):
-84% of Trump voters think that Hillary Clinton should be in prison, to only 6% who disagree with that notion. If you hate the opposing candidate so much you think she should be in jail, you're probably not jumping ship.

-Alex Jones floated the notion this week that Hillary Clinton is actually a demon, and 40% of Trump voters say that they really do think Clinton is a demon to only 42% who dismiss that idea. This measurement pretty clearly shows that 40% of Trump's base is the InfoWars crowd, so they're not going to be too dissuaded by allegations of sexual misconduct.

-We've talked all year about how there's a cult like aspect to Trump's following, and this finding might show it most of all: despite everything that's come out in the last week, 75% of Trump voters say they think that he respects women to only 9% who don't believe he does. Again, if you're willing to dismiss all the facts in front of you to the contrary, you're probably going to stay on board through election day.

-One thing that gives motivation to 38% of Trump voters in Florida is that they think the country is inherently better off with a man as President, regardless of this year's candidates. It seems safe to say the folks who subscribe to that school of thought are unbothered by the last week of Trump revelations.
His floor is astonishingly close to his ceiling.
posted by zachlipton at 2:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [66 favorites]


In the new PPP poll, Ken Bone gets 4% and Jill Stein gets 1%.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 2:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [19 favorites]



From the ppp poll.

40% of Trump supporters this Hillary is actually a demon....

........

This actually does explain a part of it I guess.
posted by Jalliah at 2:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


-One final note on the Presidential race, we tested Ken Bone as a hypothetical independent candidate and he gets 4%. He can't quite match Gary Johnson's 5%, but he's at least doing better than the 1% standing Jill Stein has.
Called it.
posted by zachlipton at 2:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


His floor is astonishingly close to his ceiling.

Another failed real estate project.
posted by condour75 at 2:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [119 favorites]


If we make enough, we can get on the team leaderboard

How does the team thing work? I can see how many people are there, but not anything else.
posted by corb at 2:21 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


...right-wing news outlets are getting... Clinton hates "everyday Americans"... out of her speechwriters deleting cliché phrases.

Oh, man. If that's hatred then Cortex fucking abhors drunk-me.
posted by rokusan at 2:22 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


During the primaries there was a reluctance to spend money on oppo for an unserious candidate

Shouldn't the logic be the other way around?

Jeb! Bush is somewhat of a known quantity. I suppose there's opposition research to be done, maybe you hire a private investigator or a team of strategists or whoever one hires for this and see what kind of dirt you can dig up that isn't widely known.

But it should be dead easy to just do a 5-minute google/wikipedia run on your "roaches coming out of the woodwork" candidates and run them out of the race pretty quickly. Isn't that in fact what happened with Ben Carson? His "front-runner" status lasted all of three days before someone looked into it and found out he's fucking insane.

Why wasn't anyone willing to run with the KNOWN crazy shit about Trump?
posted by Sara C. at 2:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


The NY Post has a Trump witness refuting the Leeds airplane story.

Trump camp puts forward witness to refute sex assault claim

I'll let you read it and determine his veracity, but this was interesting to me:

"Gilberthorpe has no evidence to back up his claim — just his self-described excellent memory."

Who else had a self-described excellent memory?
posted by chris24 at 2:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


That was inevitable the minute Clinton decided to run. Or any woman did.

I can't quite shake the feeling that Trump getting the nomination at all was precisely because of Clinton running, like he's some sort of auto-immune reaction in the right-wing body politic.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 2:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [36 favorites]




From the distant past of February 2016: How The Republican Party Has Failed To Dig Up Dirt On Donald Trump (HuffPo)
Multiple Republican campaign sources and operatives have confided that none of the remaining candidates for president have completed a major anti-Trump opposition research effort. There are several such efforts being run by outside conservative organizations. But those efforts are still gathering intel on the businessman after having started late in the primary season, these sources told The Huffington Post. And they worry that it may come too late.

“It is one of the many ways we underestimated him, I suppose,” conceded one top Republican campaign official whose candidate has since exited the race.
...
“Not taking Trump seriously as a candidate a year ago was a mistake we all made, so I don’t blame his Republican opponents for that. But the lack of evidence that they have been doing thorough research on Trump more recently is malpractice,” said Daly. “[I]f a Republican had committed six recent college grads to power through a Nexis dump in November and December, by January they’d have been able to compile a powerful narrative amplified by names and quotes that they could have put in ads by now.”
...
“From the beginning of the campaign we were shrinking our operation to get it down to scale rather than expand it. We had to focus our resources on the people who stood in our way in New Hampshire,” said Tim Miller, Bush’s communications director. “To go and invest in original research on Trump’s businesses, which would have yielded the big investigative stories from news outlets, takes an enormous investment of resources that we didn’t have.”
posted by filthy light thief at 2:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


only 35% of FL voters think it's fair to hold Hillary responsible for anything Bill's done

Well, we've reached the point in the year where only one in three people thinking a wife is responsible for her husband's feels like a relief. Good job Team America!
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


40% of Trump supporters this Hillary is actually a demon....

And 2% of Hillary supporters think she is an actual demon. I am not sure what to make of that.
posted by jammer at 2:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [19 favorites]


FYI, the man refuting Leeds claim is 54 now. So in 1981 he was 19, flying in first class.

And also this tidbit:

"Gilberthorpe made headlines in 2014, when he went public with a claim that as a 17-year-old he procured boys (some who “could have been” underage”) for sex parties with high-ranking British politicians."
posted by chris24 at 2:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


One more from PPP, the most terrifying statistic of all:
-Trump's continued insinuations about voter fraud are having a definite impact on his supporters. 75% of them think that if Hillary Clinton wins the election it will be because it was rigged for her, to only 15% who believe a Clinton win would be because she received more votes.
75%. That's 75% of Trump voters in the state that brought us the hanging chad who will, we can hope, spend the next 4-8 years screaming that our President is an imposter. We're so doomed.
posted by zachlipton at 2:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


@jbarro: This Gilberthorpe guy is a real-life Forrest Gump. He was also there when Ted Cruz's dad killed JFK.
posted by lalex at 2:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


"Gilberthorpe has no evidence to back up his claim — just his self-described excellent memory."

"In an exclusive interview arranged by the campaign, Gilberthorpe said he was on the flight — in either 1980 or 1981— where Jessica Leeds claimed Trump groped her."

And yet he can't tell us what year this happened in.
posted by peeedro at 2:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [18 favorites]


From the Gilberthorpe article:
In an exclusive interview arranged by the campaign, Gilberthorpe said he was on the flight — in either 1980 or 1981— where Jessica Leeds claimed Trump groped her.

Gilberthorpe, 54, said he was sitting across the first class aisle from the couple and saw nothing inappropriate. Leeds was wearing a white pantsuit, he said, while Trump was wearing a suit and cuff-links, which he gave to his British flight companion.
and
Gilberthorpe made headlines in 2014, when he went public with a claim that as a 17-year-old he procured boys (some who “could have been” underage”) for sex parties with high-ranking British politicians.

Gilberthorpe has no evidence to back up his claim — just his self-described excellent memory.
Looks like we got ourselves some horseshit, folks! I wonder if he could produce those cuff-links that Trump so kindly gave him. Also, excellent memory, but it could've been one year....or maybe the next? Suuuure pal.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


This Gilberthorpe guy seems to get himself involved in a lot of stories.
posted by dis_integration at 2:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


And 2% of Hillary supporters think she is an actual demon. I am not sure what to make of that.

As I said in the previous thread, I'd actually be MORE prone to vote for Hillary if she was a demon. Apparently there are 2% of her supporters who are already living in that space, and I hope they aren't too disappointed eventually.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


I need to stop sleeping while everyone else is posting... I made this comment in the old thread and was suggested to bring it here:

Not caught up with the thread for today, but I have to sound off about something and this is really the only place I can...

I'm really disturbed by women I know, who would call themselves feminist activists, like that is their whole main THING, and they haven't said word one about the Trump tape or allegations or taken part in the conversation at all.

Like we have all kinds of conservative women speaking out about how this is intolerable, and women are having this incredible painful conversation where they tell the men around them just how much they have been abused and assaulted, and yet, these friends of mine are SILENT.

I'd say they've just checked out, but they are still online, still posting about the Dakota Pipeline and other things here and there, but it's like they've just written off the entire election as Not Relevant.

Has anyone else see this? The women I would expect to have my back in this kind of discussion are just...absent. Or even posting funny memes about how both sides suck. Have we gotten to a point where somehow mainstream politics is off limits for self-labeled "activists"?

In what world does Michelle Obama's speech yesterday NOT inspire feminists to even say "Damn right!"
posted by threeturtles at 2:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


How does the team thing work? I can see how many people are there, but not anything else.

I had the same problem initially. Try closing the tab, and then going back in using this link: https://www.hillaryclinton.com/calls/teams/d89cb034-6558-412a-a5ee-53ff258b3425/ .
posted by une_heure_pleine at 2:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


chris24: Trump camp puts forward witness to refute sex assault claim
Anthony Gilberthorpe made headlines in 2014, when he went public with a claim that as a 17-year-old he procured boys (some who “could have been” underage”) for sex parties with high-ranking British politicians.

Gilberthorpe has no evidence to back up his claim — just his self-described excellent memory.
He's had an interesting past in relationship to sordid actions of famous (would-be) politicians.

And would the airlines have records of who flew when? Would they keep these records? I mean, if anyone really wanted to take the time to debunk Gilberthorpe?
posted by filthy light thief at 2:31 PM on October 14, 2016


So I figured since Fox's Chris Wallace is hosting the final debate on Wednesday in Las Vegas, that Fox would have to do something or say something to change the narrative leading into it. And they still might do it perhaps on Monday. But I tuned in about a half hour ago, and Cavuto was interviewing Ben Stein. Cavuto was saying lots of republicans have given up and moved on to 2020. Stein said Trump is "not right in the head" and called him a wacko, and stressed how big of a mistake it was that republicans chose him. But he said the republican party would "be back". To which Cavuto said "yeah, but people said that after 2012 too though."

So I let it roll over to the 5pm coverage, and they began with coverage of multiple women telling stories of Donald Trump sexually assaulting them. And while they kept the tone light by having one of the people telling stories of how she's gotten stuck in an elevator on the way to the broadcast (what IS it with these folks and elevators), the general idea was that Trump is doing this all wrong, that this is bad, and that he's going to lose. Their pollster talked about the election and she talked about how the difference between registered democrats in florida vs registered republicans, is like 520k to 60k. So she urged them to 'be clear-eyed' here. It was about 10 minutes after 5pm at that point, and I turned the channel while I still had my sanity.

So there you go. If Fox doesn't pull some underhanded bs by Wednesday, either before or during the debate, then perhaps Trump may be down to just his white supremacist buddies as friends, and hopefully we can vote him into the tiniest hole, away from public view, and move on to better and brighter days as a country.
posted by cashman at 2:31 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Show of hands...As soon as Clinton is declared winner, Trump initiates a 50-state recount?

Donnie THREATENS to recount... But that sort of disappears in a news cycle or two.

Especially once he finds out that they're not necessarily free.
posted by ZeusHumms at 2:31 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


MCMikeNamara: And 2% of Hillary supporters think she is an actual demon. I am not sure what to make of that.

Either they think a literal demon is better than Donald Trump, or they think "this is a really stupid question, so I'll offer a really stupid answer." Either way, I agree with their logic.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:32 PM on October 14, 2016 [40 favorites]


Who remembers random strangers who didn't do anything on a flight? I barely remember the weird people I've sat directly next to on planes, and this guy specifically remembers nothing happening 35 years ago?
posted by zachlipton at 2:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [69 favorites]


Assange and Greenwald seem to think that if only America was gone the world would transform itself into a anarchist capitalist libertarian world of peace, justice and freedom.

it's funny how you read this place, and there's so much talk of punching down, not up. until the worlds major military superpower gets criticized...
posted by andrewcooke at 2:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


There is the third and final debate coming up . Unlike the last two debates will the upcoming debate discuss any of the issues??

Right around the corner from the second debate site is Ferguson and not one question about race relations, civil rights, police actions.
Major hurricane Matthew hit, but no discussion about climate change.
No questions about immigration, other than will we or won’t we keep the bad brown foreign people out.
All that salacious talk about whether Trump did or didn’t actually grope anyone, but no discussion about issues that matter to women – no discussion about reproductive rights, gender equity, income inequality.
No questions about education, at any level – pre-school through college.
posted by robbyrobs at 2:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


And 2% of Hillary supporters think she is an actual demon. I am not sure what to make of that.

You know what they say. Better the demon you know...
posted by rokusan at 2:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


In another reality, this entire election would be the perfect setup for a Mission: Impossible movie.

In a movie, the villain would be competent and charming, or at least he would be propped up by a perfect operator. Reality hasn't obliged. The best it has done is Steve Bannon and Jared Kushner, both of whom must think unspeakable things about the other. I get a smile thinking about the smooth GOP kingmakers who have utterly failed to make a king out of Trump.

Earlier today, I was thinking of a short story in a children's book that I read when I was small. It was about some kids who wished it was Christmas every day. Children's stories being what they are, a magical force intervened, and they got that wish. For the first few days, it was delightful. Candy, presents, carols, excitement. Then it just . . . got old. They were sick of big dinners and candy, and they were beginning to see what all of this cost everybody.

That's how I feel about this constant vomiting forth of Trump's sexual malfeasance. It was hilarious and amazing last week when the Billy Bush tape dropped. It was great to see the numbers plummet. But these are real women coming forward with real suffering, and I hate to see every single one. It is miserable.

But trust me -- it is one of the "issues that matter to women."
posted by Countess Elena at 2:37 PM on October 14, 2016 [19 favorites]


So here's my question: is the Gilberthorpe story the "evidence" Mike Pence was talking about on the morning shows this morning? And if so, why did Pence know that the NY Post was going to publish the story in "probably a matter of hours?" The Post has certainly been in Trump's pocket all right, but that's a pretty close connection.
posted by zachlipton at 2:37 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


All that salacious talk about whether Trump did or didn’t actually grope anyone, but no discussion about issues that matter to women
Have you read the many, many comments from women in this and previous threads saying that sexual assault is "an issue that matter[s] to women", not "salacious talk"?
posted by une_heure_pleine at 2:37 PM on October 14, 2016 [40 favorites]


And Gilberthorpe was also involved in setting up the Piers Merchant scandal, back when Piers 'Moron' Morgan was the editor of the Daily Mirror.

He sounds like a British Roger Stone.
posted by holgate at 2:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump will never lose all his support. Here's what I'm seeing this morning on facebook posts coming out of the bible belt:

- God uses imperfect men to achieve his aims. Example: King David. Ergo, you can still vote your conscience and vote for Trump. Keep your eyes on the Supreme Court, that is all that matters. If Hillary appoints five new justices then this country is lost.

- Flashy new ads from the NRA, and a renewed push to protect our god-given rights to protect our families. Tied in with this: a push to allow open-carry in all 50 states. Ironic tangent: the same people who wrote that we need to honor the men in blue when they talk about BLM are now writing that we need guns to protect ourselves from a corrupt police force.

- New conspiracy theories about mysterious deaths surrounding the DNC, including two in the last week.

- A huge upswing in "it's not fair to judge me for who I vote for" posts, especially from women.
posted by kanewai at 2:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


So much other stuff in those early years fits that pattern: memberships at the Met and other non-profits. He clearly thought the Foundation was simply his piggy bank to dip into for charity stuff, regardless of the rules on self-dealing.

Speaking of The Donald J. Trump Foundation, anyone know if they got right with New York State yet? 15 days from 30-September-2016, was the deadline IIRC...
posted by mikelieman at 2:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


There is the third and final debate coming up . Unlike the last two debates will the upcoming debate discuss any of the issues??

I mean, yeah I agree, I'd like all of those issues and more to be discussed and debated in a sensible way, but having a next President who does not in any way commit sexual assault is an extremely important issue to me too.
posted by zachlipton at 2:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


I am reposting my response to threeturtles since I too left it in the old thread, and threeturtles has reposted upthread.

In what world does Michelle Obama's speech yesterday NOT inspire feminists to even say "Damn right!"

My world! Believe me, merely participating in this thread would get me all the side eye in the world from almost everyone I know.

And I mean, I have some sympathy. Liberal feminism isn't going to stop the pipeline, and that pipeline (and the accompanying disregard for Native people, and the oil economy itself) make women's lives worse all around the world. It's like, the needs at the base of the pyramid aren't being met, things are actively getting worse there - so why care about the top layers of the pyramid? And when, eg, Michelle Obama is talking about women's rights but not talking about the women whose lives are devastated by the drone program and military interventions, what good is her speech? What good was liberal feminism to Berta Cáceres?

I don't even disagree with that.

It's a cognitive dissonance thing - in order to live in the world around us, we have to take Hillary Clinton and the Obamas at face value rather than considering the powerful global effects of their policies. We have to think about them as social people - Michelle Obama as a woman who gets harassed on the street; Hillary Clinton as a woman who has been the target of vile misogynist lies her whole adult life; Barack Obama as a man who has been targeted by racists in vile ways for the past eight years. And that's all true - but to place emphasis on this requires us to de-emphasize these things that are also true about foreign police, security, drones, the pipeline.

It's like, the easiest way to respond to all this is to pick one view - the social view or the foreign policy view. Hillary is either a woman among women or Secretary of State winking at attacks on indigenous Honduran activists. We here take the social view, and that's not trivial - social racism and misogyny are real things that really happen and impact everyone. But there's this other view which is also real and also serious.

I genuinely believe that in many respects Hillary Clinton and the Obamas are good individuals, and I genuinely believe that they feel that their foreign policy (and their domestic policy) work for the greater good. I don't think they're just out for themselves and their cronies. But I think they're dead wrong about the world in many respects, and those are very destructive respects which cause suffering among people all around the world who can't even vote for them.

Trying to hold both those views in my head at the same time is what's so hard for me about this election. It's impossible to do, really.

But I don't blame anyone for not feeling excited about the presidency. I don't think this means they are not feminists or don't care or whatever. I am just happy if people acknowledge that we really, really need not to elect Trump and that now the choice is only Trump and Clinton - nothing else is really on the table.
posted by Frowner at 2:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [56 favorites]


Speaking of The Donald J. Trump Foundation, anyone know if they got right with New York State yet? 15 days from 30-September-2016, was the deadline IIRC...

They're giving him until Monday, we've now learned.
posted by zachlipton at 2:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Apparently, some republicans here in NM thought sending out this flyer was a good idea.
posted by annsunny at 2:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [25 favorites]


Not one question about race relations, civil rights, police actions... climate change... reproductive rights, gender equity, income inequality... education...

Yeah, it's been lost in this fucking pathetic shitstorm excuse for an election we've had overall, but all the bland, risk-free debate questions that seem like they're from 1958 have been serious disappointments. While Trump's insanity has been a monkey wrench at times, the debates overall still seem too close to managed propaganda events for my taste.

I know it probably sounds tinfoil, but I feel like there must have been some kind of inter-party agreement to not touch those issues. Or is the media so much a part of the business-as-usual machinery now that they do it of their own accord?
posted by rokusan at 2:41 PM on October 14, 2016


hey remember when Karl Rove had a very public meltdown on Fox News on election night 2012

ahhhhh

let's hope for more of that real soon
posted by Existential Dread at 2:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


Wow, $7 to the BSA.

Lol, what? He gave a $7 donation and bothered to claim it? I mean, I gave more than that to phunniemee's Girl Scout troop at last month's meetup. Granted I am getting consideration in the form of chocolate penguins so I guess it's not technically a donation but... you know, I'm not even a millionaire like Donald Trump! I can't just be tossing out double-digit sums for no return!
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [22 favorites]


For Donald, it's not about the money, it's about the principle of spending other peoples' money.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


Lol, what? He gave a $7 donation and bothered to claim it?

I think the point is that it wasn't a donation - Trump was [likely] paying for his son's membership out of his foundation's coffers rather than his own pocketbook.
posted by lalex at 2:45 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


The head of a #nevertrump Super PAC was on cable last night claiming that she had scads of oppo and that this excuse doesn't really work for her. She also stated that her oppo made the recent accusations unsurprising.
Awfully convenient to claim this now. Why didn't she use it then?

("Because afraid of legal action by Trump", I suspect.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 2:45 PM on October 14, 2016


He gave a $7 donation and bothered to claim it?

If I'm reading this right, in 1989 he paid his kid's DUES with a foundation check, not made a donation.
posted by mikelieman at 2:46 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


And 2% of Hillary supporters think she is an actual demon. I am not sure what to make of that.

In a poll, 4% of Americans answered that they had been decapitated.
posted by Hlewagast at 2:47 PM on October 14, 2016 [49 favorites]


Lol, what? He gave a $7 donation and bothered to claim it?


This is entitled rich douchebag 101. He set up the foundation specifically to pay for shit with other people's money. He probably has a checkbook that he just uses indiscriminately to pay for whatever the fuck he wants, or instructs one of his kids to do the same.
posted by odinsdream at 2:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Lol, what? He gave a $7 donation and bothered to claim it?

Not a donation; $7 was the cost of a membership in the Boy Scouts in 1989. So the Trump foundation paid the membership fee for one of the Trump children, I guess.
posted by nubs at 2:48 PM on October 14, 2016


We got a Trump mailing. They were asking for an emergency donation, in order to beat Clinton. I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.

Am I a bad person?
posted by Midnight Skulker at 2:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [186 favorites]


The head of a #nevertrump Super PAC was on cable last night claiming that she had scads of oppo and that this excuse doesn't really work for her. She also stated that her oppo made the recent accusations unsurprising.

Emphasis added. I suspect that the boys in the room didn't think anything of it, even when it was literally put in front of their noses.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:49 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


We got a Trump mailing. They were asking for an emergency donation, in order to beat Clinton. I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.

Am I a bad person?


I would have sent a different used household paper product, so, no, you're not a bad person in my book.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [65 favorites]


In this case, the $7 to the Boy Scouts probably was with his own money (that was before he started getting others to donate), but once the money was in the Foundation, it wasn't his money anymore, so he shouldn't have been using it to buy things for his family, like a year's membership in the scouts.
posted by zachlipton at 2:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


We got a Trump mailing. They were asking for an emergency donation, in order to beat Clinton. I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.

Am I a bad person?


As long as you didn't send anything worse than an envelope full of glitter I think it's fine.
posted by Francis at 2:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Am I a bad person?

Depends. Did you remember to write "fuck you" on it first?
posted by Paul Slade at 2:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


We got a Trump mailing. They were asking for an emergency donation, in order to beat Clinton. I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.

Am I a bad person?


They say give 'til it hurts. They don't specify who gets hurt.
posted by nubs at 2:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


Should we be worried about Kellyanne?

@McKayCoppins: Trump supporter in the back shouting at the candidate, "Stay on the issues!"
@KellyannePolls: That was me! I was there...
posted by lalex at 2:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [37 favorites]


Waste of a perfectly good table napkin. Yes, bad.
posted by Namlit at 2:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Which of the Trump spawn joined the Boy Scouts and how many small forest creatures did they get caught torturing before being kicked out?
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


".@ArdenFarhi with a good catch. A discrepancy: Gilberthrope says Leeds was wearing white pants. Leeds says Trump ran his hand up her skirt." --@SopanDeb
posted by zachlipton at 2:53 PM on October 14, 2016 [18 favorites]


None of the foundation's money is his, regardless of whether he gave it initially.
posted by odinsdream at 2:53 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


And 2% of Hillary supporters think she is an actual demon. I am not sure what to make of that.

Would someone attach either "[real]" or "[fake]" to this and give me a source? Because if this is true I really, really want to know more about that two percent.
posted by KChasm at 2:54 PM on October 14, 2016


Who else had a self-described excellent memory?

Trump can't recall saying he has one of the world's best memories
posted by kirkaracha at 2:54 PM on October 14, 2016 [18 favorites]


A bit odd. Earlier today, McKay Coppins of Buzzfeed tweeted about a Trump rally: "Trump supporter in the back shouting at the candidate, "Stay on the issues!""

Then Kellyanne Conway just replied: "That was me! I was there..."

Sad.
posted by zachlipton at 2:54 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


He thinks it's some genius loophole to donate to a charity, claim the donation on your taxes and then pay for your personal expenses out of the charity, when in fact it's just illegal.
posted by odinsdream at 2:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [30 favorites]


In the new PPP poll, Ken Bone gets 4% and Jill Stein gets 1%.

If I were Stein, I'd be seeking the coveted Ken Bone endorsement.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


It's like, the easiest way to respond to all this is to pick one view - the social view or the foreign policy view. Hillary is either a woman among women or Secretary of State winking at attacks on indigenous Honduran activists... -- Frowner

The media and both candidates themselves chose the 100% full-court press on the social view this election, and we the people have gone along with it with full gusto from all sides. And while hopefully some good comes out of it (specifically around real social equality for women, and the greater seriousness people are treating "women's issues" with) I also feel like it's being used duplicitously sometimes by those on each side to deflect from talking about foreign-policy impacts on the world at large or other "non-social" issues that deserve attention, too.

But we're three quarters of the way into a messy election, and the best I can hope for now is that the next president, whomever she may be, will be held to great scrutiny and checked-and-balanced into upgrading America's ethical stature, because yeah, invasions and assassinations and coups and drone strikes and illegal prisons and domestic surveillance and on and on... we need a course correction as a nation very, very badly.

I wish the election could have been about those things, but it was probably never going to happen with these candidates. And the wheels turn slowly, I suppose.

Next time, hopefully.

(I don't really need a (sic) up there after my 121st word, do I?)
posted by rokusan at 2:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Donald Trump, Jr., has some words of advice for women who can't handle sexual harassment in the workplace: Go teach kindergarten.
"There's something still cool with the old-school," Trump Jr., said. "If you have a guys' place you have a guys' place. I have a hard time letting go of that...I'm kind of a guy's guy. The problem with women is . . . they complain. They stop us from doing what we want to do. I'm sure I'll get myself in trouble one of these days...If you can't handle some of the basic stuff that's become a problem in the workforce today, you don't belong in the workforce. Like, you should go maybe teach kindergarten. I think it's a respectable position."
Like father, like son.
posted by mattdidthat at 2:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [18 favorites]




We got a Trump mailing. They were asking for an emergency donation, in order to beat Clinton. I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.

Am I a bad person?


I'm sorry, but this is adorable.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [35 favorites]


Which of the Trump spawn joined the Boy Scouts and how many small forest creatures did they get caught torturing before being kicked out?

look I don't like the Trump sons either but given how quickly he was seen to devour them, bones and all, it's not at all fair to say that Eric tortured those squirrels
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [19 favorites]


And 2% of Hillary supporters think she is an actual demon. I am not sure what to make of that.

Would someone attach either "[real]" or "[fake]" to this and give me a source? Because if this is true I really, really want to know more about that two percent.


[real]

And 9% of Hillary supporters aren't sure. See this PPP document.
posted by Numenius at 2:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Anyone interested in the militia/sovcit movements should follow @jjmacnab on Twitter. I figure it'll be useful in the upcoming months, because they're growing more and more violent as they get more and more paranoid.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Donald Trump, Jr., has some words of advice for women who can't handle sexual harassment in the workplace: Go teach kindergarten.

you know those superhero costumes with the big foam muscles built into them? your average four year old wearing one of those is doing a far better job of playacting at being a Real Big Man than Don Jr with this shit
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


And 9% of Hillary supporters aren't sure [if Hillary is an actual demon].

To be fair, my answer to that question would be WTF? And possibly a non-serious answer or a sarcastic one.
posted by Francis at 3:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


We got a Trump mailing. They were asking for an emergency donation, in order to beat Clinton. I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.

Am I a bad person?


NO! You are NOT a bad person!

A "bad person" ( like myself ) would have attached that postage paid envelope to a cinder-block.
posted by mikelieman at 3:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [24 favorites]


If you can't handle some of the basic stuff that's become a problem in the workforce today, you don't belong in the workforce -- Trump Jr.

Jesus wept.
posted by en forme de poire at 3:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Kids get candy on Halloween. That's the deal.

/igotarock
posted by petebest at 3:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


And 2% of Hillary supporters think she is an actual demon. I am not sure what to make of that.

I insist on internals. I want a breakdown of support by "because" and "despite".
posted by The Bellman at 3:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


The cinder block thing sadly doesn't work anymore.
posted by Sequence at 3:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


If Hillary appoints five new justices then this country is lost.

They spelled "two" wrong. My message of condolence.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


The cinder block thing sadly doesn't work anymore.

/me <sad> I am teh olds... </sad>
posted by mikelieman at 3:07 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


"Trump's airplane witness once got the press to cover his imaginary engagement to a made-up fiancée." --@studentactivism (sources back to a Private Eye story)

Did they find literally the least credible person to make these claims that he remembers nothing happening 35 years ago? I'm beginning to think Trump himself has more credibility than Gilberthrope.
posted by zachlipton at 3:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [29 favorites]


Donald Trump Jr. has to spend the entire rest of his life with the name "Donald Trump"
posted by theodolite at 3:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [28 favorites]


I wish the election could have been about those things, but it was probably never going to happen with these candidates.

Not these candidates, just the one candidate. The one candidate who brags about be able to get away with assaulting women.

The assholes who put him forth as a candidate get some of the blame too.
posted by ghost phoneme at 3:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Three Kansas Men Charged With Plotting a Bombing Attack Targeting the Local Somali Immigrant Community. [official DOJ statement]

Here in MPLS, we have several apartment complexes that house large numbers of Somali families who came here as refugees.

When I think about if someone were to try to blow those up, creating god knows how much carnage and death, well, I know what I'd do with a cinderblock and five minutes alone with that person.

Just terrifying and I'm sure lots of Somali Minneapolitans are feeling pretty worried tonight.
posted by Frowner at 3:10 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


The MeFites United team at the Hillary for America online call tool is now live!

To join, go to https://www.hillaryclinton.com/calls/teams/d89cb034-6558-412a-a5ee-53ff258b3425/ .


Do you have to be on Facebook to join? If not, how?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I can't imagine this hasn't been posted yet, however, I think Laurie Penny's endorsement of Hillary Clinton fits nicely into the Frowner's discussion of the uncomfortable union of electoral politics and feminist activism. E.g.
A general election is about nothing more or less than choosing your enemy. Any government leader must be considered an enemy to those who believe in radical change. Hillary Clinton is not yet that enemy but by damn. I hope she gets to be. Hillary Clinton is the sort of enemy I’ve been dreaming of over ten years of political work. She’s the kind of enemy you can respect. I look forward to fighting her on her commitment to climate protection, on workers' rights, on welfare, on foreign policy.
posted by chrchr at 3:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [48 favorites]


Donald Trump Jr. has to spend the entire rest of his life with the name "Donald Trump"

Depending on how the bankruptcy proceedings go, he may have to change the name he uses in any professional context[fake/hopefully real]
posted by mikelieman at 3:12 PM on October 14, 2016


Ugh, going back through the day's news now I'm out of work.

I only have enough in me to fuel inchoate, bile-spitting rage once per day, and that's sadly just not enough to keep up with Trump's petty hate machine. At this point I've reached the despondent John Hammond stage of response.
posted by phunniemee at 3:12 PM on October 14, 2016


"Trump's airplane witness once got the press to cover his imaginary engagement to a made-up fiancée." --@studentactivism (sources back to a Private Eye story)

omfg. I saw that but I'm not familiar with Private Eye, so I found it in the Times' archives (Thanks NYPL!) and the announcement is real.

Hey British folks - is the five first names thing...unusual?
posted by lalex at 3:12 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


>Three Kansas Men Charged With Plotting a Bombing Attack Targeting the Local Somali Immigrant Community. [official DOJ statement]
Curtis Allen and Gavin Wright, both 49, and of Liberal, Kansas ...
I see the FOX News headlines already: "Kansas Liberals Target Apartment Complex."
posted by octobersurprise at 3:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]




ChurchHatesTucker, you can create an account on HillaryClinton.com to join the call team and you don't have to use Facebook.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 3:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Also can someone please photoshop a Trump themed cover of that NIN album? Because it's only one letter and Petty Hate Machine is totally his thing. TIA.
posted by phunniemee at 3:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]




Send Trump condoms. That is the kind of donation he needs. See if you can get some colorful ones, or a nice note. Send a lot, to each state. Or send him single packages of moist towelettes, or one package of towelettes, and one condom. Yeah.
posted by Oyéah at 3:16 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Speaking of Minneapolis, last weekend I flew there from California to meet my brother, who flew in from the DC area, to go to the Vikings game. We wanted to watch the debate Sunday night so I found a watch party at a comedy club. I figured, blue state, comedy club, should be fun.

The first sign of trouble was that the TVs were all tuned to Fox. Turns out that the party was being hosted by a right-ist radio talk show and about 2/3 of the crowd were Trump supporters. They loved the debate and his many powerful burns. Luckily we were on the side with some other liberals. I only yelled "shut up" once, at a bellowing conspiracy theorist who was too loud for everyone. It was an interesting experience.

Game report: the new stadium is awesome and the Vikings crushed the Texans to go 5-0.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Donald Trump, and his accusations that men of color and immigrants are rapists (projecting much, Donnie?) reminds me of the hysteria whipped up by white men who claimed that black men wanted nothing so much as to rape white women, and deserved to be lynched - but it was white men who were raping black women with impunity. And today, Native American and Alaska Native women report the highest rates of sexual assaults of any group - and eighty-five percent of their attackers were non-Native men.

It's really high time for white men to start getting their own houses in order with regard to rape and sexual assault. I don't think that celebrity is a risk factor for rape, but I do think that rich men, and men who present a "respectable" facade, get away with rape and assault, in large part because they are believed more than their accusers. I'm not glad that Donald did what he did - he's a skid mark on humanity's underwear - but I hope that in the aftermath, women will be believed more and will be safer. Rape is not "male nature." It is a product of a patriarchal, hierarchical culture that values men more than women.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 3:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [45 favorites]




Pence is either incredibly gullible or a malicious gaslighter just like his running mate. I wonder if he thinks Carlos Slim is out to destroy him, too.
posted by xyzzy at 3:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


posted by phunniemee Also can someone please photoshop a Trump themed cover of that NIN album?

I would, but I'm currently working on the upcoming cover of Newsweek.
posted by mattdidthat at 3:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


> "Gilberthorpe has no evidence to back up his claim — just his self-described excellent memory."
> "In an exclusive interview arranged by the campaign, Gilberthorpe said he was on the flight — in either 1980 or 1981 ..."
> "Gilberthorpe made headlines in 2014, when he went public with a claim that as a 17-year-old he procured boys (some who 'could have been' underage) for sex parties with high-ranking British politicians."
> "Gilberthorpe was also involved in setting up the Piers Merchant scandal ..."
> "Trump's airplane witness once got the press to cover his imaginary engagement to a made-up fiancée."
> "Gilberthrope says Leeds was wearing white pants. Leeds says Trump ran his hand up her skirt."

... they really think people will just friggin' swallow anything they say, don't they?
posted by kyrademon at 3:21 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


"No refugees and immigrants are gonna come here and become terrorists! Those are jobs for Americans!"

Man, I don't get right wing militias.
posted by bluecore at 3:21 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


We got a Trump mailing. They were asking for an emergency donation, in order to beat Clinton. I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.
Am I a bad person?


I would have enclosed a cash contribution: $5 worth of pennies weighing approximately 3 pounds, with approximately the same amount of slugs, mixed in order to require the envelope opening clerk to spend some time sorting through them and ensure that the cost of postage > the cash contribution. Sometimes it feels so good to be bad.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:22 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


... they really think people will just friggin' swallow anything, don't they?" FTFY
posted by Oyéah at 3:23 PM on October 14, 2016


"In 2005, Natasha Stoynoff phoned me, distraught, crying. Said Trump assaulted her. She is telling truth. #natashastoynoff" --@paulmcl

More corroboration from someone at the time.
posted by zachlipton at 3:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [18 favorites]


I think a table napkin donation is a charmingly inexplicable "F U."
posted by agregoli at 3:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


I've been joking-not-joking about the Republican Party having a moment of reckoning wherein no amount of cognitive dissonance would mask the massive divide between what it preaches and what it practices for years.

Now I'm here and I want off this ride. I think, all evidence to the contrary, that cooler heads will prevail in the Republican Party, but I'm mainly worried about the disaffected/distracted/disappointed rump party that remains, mainly because they have alot of guns not alot of fucks to give.
posted by eclectist at 3:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I think the point is that it wasn't a donation - Trump was [likely] paying for his son's membership out of his foundation's coffers rather than his own pocketbook.

Why...Why wouldn't you just give the nanny a 10 dollar bill to hand over at pick up or drop off. This detail is just so absurd and petty that I can't stop thinking about it. Seven dollars! He fraudulently used his non-profit foundation to get a tax break on SEVEN DOLLARS! Do rich people find it distasteful to touch actual bank notes? Did he not maintain some kind of household checking account? Is this amazement just revealing me as the unsophisticated working stiff I truly am? My God, they really are different.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 3:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [47 favorites]


Y'all! Small-town Mississippi paper, the Meridian Star, just endorsed Clinton. If you have a few bucks and a yen to read a small paper from the deep red South, consider buying a subscription. This is big (small) news, and I'm afraid may kill this brave little paper.
Meridian Star
posted by thebrokedown at 3:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [80 favorites]


Gilberthorpe is even challenging Leeds to a public confrontation.

“I will go to head to head with her — I will meet her again. I will see her eyes across the table with my eyes and I will challenge her on the points she made. And I’ll tell you what, I would do this whether it was for Trump, for Clinton, for Obama, or for any man who’s been accused of sexually molesting someone when I know he did not,” he said.


this individual sounds not only very credible but also extremely balanced
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [23 favorites]


Steve Deace, on the Trump supporters shouting "We don't care!" about the sexual assaults:

@stevedeaceshow "GIVE US BARABBAS!" "GIVE US BARABBAS!"
posted by corb at 3:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [34 favorites]


I thought I saw a news segment that interviewed one of Trump's former accounts payable people (but can't seem to find it now). She said that anytime they had a request for a payment come down, they would look in a "big book" of charities and if the name matched, they'd pay it from the Foundation account - regardless of whether the payment was proper or not.
posted by melissasaurus at 3:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


It's like, the needs at the base of the pyramid aren't being met, things are actively getting worse there - so why care about the top layers of the pyramid? And when, eg, Michelle Obama is talking about women's rights but not talking about the women whose lives are devastated by the drone program and military interventions, what good is her speech?

And in what way is this not dismissive of the concerns of the women speaking about their experiences of abuse? To say "women somewhere else have it worse" is exactly the kind of dismissive defense I thought the left was against.

The point should be EVEN Michelle Obama experiences this discrimination and abuse. Even the wealthiest and most powerful woman has been hurt by the men around her.

I mean, to talk about basics, if there is no woman in the most privileged county in the world who can safely walk down the street without facing abuse, that should highlight exactly how bad things are for all women everywhere.
posted by threeturtles at 3:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [64 favorites]


I will see her eyes across the table with my eyes

Yes, this sounds like the kind of thing an eye-having human person would say
posted by theodolite at 3:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [75 favorites]


Vox interview with Republican strategist Steve Schmidt:
...the defense of Trump, the cowardice of so many Republican elected officials who won’t confront this — what it exposes is political cowardice on a massive level. It exposes a political class in the Republican Party that simply is unfit to lead the country.
...
You have a massive reckoning coming due that will play out over years on the serially putting party above country. We’ve reached the moment in time that George Washington warned about in his farewell address with the danger of factions. You have basically warring tribes that subordinate the national interest to their tribal interest.

There’s no higher value obviously for most — though not all — Republican elected officials than maintaining fidelity to Donald Trump. What’s extraordinary about that is that in America, we don’t take an oath to a strongman leader; we take it to the Constitution of the United States. And Donald Trump is obviously manifestly unfit in every conceivable way to occupy the office of the American head of state.
Schmidt also compares the Trump campaign to kamikaze attacks.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [25 favorites]


So my environs (Madison, WI ish) have been blessedly Trump sign-free. However, sometime yesterday a giant Trump sign went up on my commute route. I... really don't get this. Why are they putting it up now, of all godforsaken times?

Also, I had a nightmare the other night that he was chasing me down into a basement, wearing the same suit/tie combo from the second debate. The good news is that I was pretty sure I could kick his ass.
posted by altopower at 3:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


I wish the election could have been about those things, but it was probably never going to happen with these candidates.

One candidate. The other released a major poverty plan this week when she could have sat and watched Trump light himself on fire.
posted by chris24 at 3:32 PM on October 14, 2016 [71 favorites]


Ok, the book of charities thing was re the "mistaken" payment to Pam Bondi (they looked up her org in "the book" and thought it was a charity w a similar name). It seems weird that this didn't get picked up as a bigger issue. You can't just say "all payments to charities come from the foundation" that's not how it works; that's not how any of this works!!!
posted by melissasaurus at 3:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


NFL players rip Donald Trump for his take on concussions.

It's like he's running down a "make everyone hate me" checklist, y'know?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


I will see her eyes across the table with my eyes

Yes, this sounds like the kind of thing an eye-having human person would say


That's what he wants you to think! This is some kind of brilliant, 9-dimensional transatlantic eyes-having game, and you're not even equipped to keep up!
posted by rokusan at 3:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Early voting is up 22% in Virginia, 56% of that from NoVa alone

But even more signs of weakness in the PPP Florida poll, Clinton gets 85% of Democratic respondents; Murphy just 66%, putting Rubio up Rubio 44-38, leading Clinton's 46-42. Chuck Schumer's Senate slate is political malpractice. They're going to manage to lose the Senate in what should be a wave election.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


A bit more from the Steve Schmidt interview:
Candidates for federal office have duties and obligations toward the national interest that supersede tactical calculations. And the question is this — I suppose if you believe that Donald Trump has demonstrated fitness to sit atop the national command authority as commander in chief of the world’s most powerful military and its most sophisticated nuclear arsenal, then you should continue to endorse Donald Trump.

But for sure, when the election’s over, you’re locked into that position for all time. And the question is, if we haven’t hit the line where you can say, “I can’t support the nominee of the party” — then where is the line?
posted by kirkaracha at 3:35 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Why are they putting it up now, of all godforsaken times?

Pretty simply, now is the time you can get signs for free from your local committee. Before, you had to order and pay for them.
posted by Miko at 3:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


ActBlue contribution page for Patrick Murphy in Florida
posted by Hairy Lobster at 3:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


From the previous thread: Ryan Avoids Talking Trump, Paints Grim Picture Of 'Liberal Progressive' Rule
“What vision to Hillary Clinton and her party offer the people? They want an America that doesn’t stand out. They want an America that is ordinary. There is a gloom and grayness to things,” he continued. “In the America they want, the driving force is the state. Where we are ruled by our betters, by a cold and unfeeling democracy that replaces original thinking. A place where the government twists the law and the constitution itself to suit its purposes. It's a place where liberty is always under assault. Where passion, the very stuff of life is extinguished. That is the America Hillary Clinton wants."
Listen to this feckless, cowardly liar use the language of the Republican opposition to freakin' communism -- which the modern Democratic Party is as far from as the moon -- to cover for the fact that his party a) has a plan in a "pamphlet" that basically entails the same old tax-cutting supply-side hokum they've been selling for thirty-odd years, and 2) is enthusiastically embracing fascism anyway, which Ryan himself is too feckless and cowardly to oppose.

Feh.
posted by Gelatin at 3:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


I was a woman smoking cigarettes in public yesterday (yes, I know, smoking is the dumbest). At least four different dudes took it on themselves to instigate weird, bad interactions with me. This is more than normal. One guy told me all about how New York City is full of illegal immigrants, and I can't trust 'em even if they're white. One guy yelled at me that I was a fucking cunt without any previous or further discussion, and I'm very unclear on any reasoning behind that. It's getting worse and worse out there, and my smarter friends are telling me it might be even worse after the election.
posted by lauranesson at 3:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [34 favorites]


@stevedeaceshow "GIVE US BARABBAS!" "GIVE US BARABBAS!"

But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas and to have Jesus executed.
- Matthew 27:20
posted by turaho at 3:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Mindy McGillivray, who in the Palm Beach Post accused Trump of groping her, says she is leaving the country:
“We feel the backlash of the Trump supporters. It scares us. It intimidates us. We are in fear of our lives,’’ she said in an interview Friday with The Palm Beach Post.

McGillivray, 36, has been staying in a hotel in the three days since she told her story to The Palm Beach Post, one of at least four women across the United States who have accused Trump of inappropriately touching them. Trump has denied the accusations, calling them total fabrications.

But she said got a scare Thursday night when she returned to the Palm Springs house she shares with her daughter and stepdad to pick up clothes.

“I look out the window and there are cars just driving around the house and looking, slowing down right at the house,’’ she said.

“I don’t live in a gated community. This is dangerous. There could be people out there who want to hurt us.’’

She said the publicity has caused friction with her stepfather. It has also driven a wedge into the family of a photographer who was with McGillivray the night of the alleged incident.

The photographer, Ken Davidoff, said he remembers McGillivray pulling him aside moments after the encounter to complain about the alleged groping, which he did not witness. McGillivray never reported the incident to authorities.

Davidoff’s brother, Daryl, said he thinks McGillivray is lying. He is angry at his brother because the publicity is hurting the family’s photography studio, whose clients include Trump supporters.

Ken Davidoff said he received a text from his brother, Daryl, who wrote that he was contacted by a Trump attorney and “I agreed to make a statement, hope they put both of you away.’’

Despite the fall out, McGillivray said she has no regrets about going public with her story, which she did after she watched Trump say in a nationally televised debate that he has never groped women.
And we ask why women didn't come forward sooner?
posted by zachlipton at 3:43 PM on October 14, 2016 [174 favorites]


Google News introduced fact check links on news pages yesterday.
"Today, we’re adding another new tag, “Fact check,” to help readers find fact checking in large news stories. You’ll see the tagged articles in the expanded story box on news.google.com and in the Google News & Weather iOS and Android apps, starting with the U.S. and the U.K.

(screenshot)

Google News determines whether an article might contain fact checks in part by looking for the schema.org ClaimReview markup. We also look for sites that follow the commonly accepted criteria for fact checks. Publishers who create fact-checks and would like to see it appear with the “Fact check” tag should use that markup in fact-check articles. For more information, head on over to our help center.

We’re excited to see the growth of the Fact Check community and to shine a light on its efforts to divine fact from fiction, wisdom from spin."
More at the link.
posted by cashman at 3:45 PM on October 14, 2016 [37 favorites]


I wish the election could have been about those things, but it was probably never going to happen with these candidates.

Not these candidates, just the one candidate.


No. These candidates.

Do you think any Republican put up against Clinton would not have gone into dirty social-issue attacks or used socially divisive approaches? Clinton Derangement Syndrome is a thing, and the Republicans cannot resist. She was always going to bring out the worst in whoever went up against her... we just didn't expect it to be, like, this-worst.

And even for her part, and while I agree she's 100x more literate and legitimate on other issues, Clinton wouldn't want the focus too much on international affairs or her work at State this year, for obvious reasons (imagine if a competent campaign had attacked her on her actual weak points), so she'd always want to emphasize areas in which she polls better, which are, again, mainly social areas.

So even if we didn't have full-on dumpster fire Trump this time, this was going to happen this year to some degree, because both R-offense and D-defense is heavy, heavy on the social sides of the playbook.

We just got a perfect storm of ultra-crazy this time around.
posted by rokusan at 3:45 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


What a horrible story. That trashy-ass brother of Ken's has probably been waiting years for a chance to put his brother in his place, you can just tell.
posted by Countess Elena at 3:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


Do you think any Republican put up against Clinton would not have gone into dirty social-issue attacks or used socially divisive approaches? Clinton Derangement Syndrome is a thing, and the Republicans cannot resist. She was always going to bring out the worst in whoever went up against her... we just didn't expect it to be, like, this-worst.

So, the one candidate along with the entire Republican party then?
posted by Zalzidrax at 3:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Obama subtweeting Trump.

@POTUS: Clearly, we still have more to do to prevent sexual assault and the thinking that leads to it. That starts with us: http://ItsOnUs.org
posted by chris24 at 3:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


Chuck Schumer's Senate slate is political malpractice.
Rubio is losing women and African Americans but he has all the Hispanics. I don't think a Democrat without a strong performance with that bloc can win FL. The thinking was probably that a Republican-lite candidate might be able to make inroads, but no. Murphy is going to do a debate on Univision, but it was like pulling teeth to get him to do it and Little Marco has been tweaking him about it.
posted by xyzzy at 3:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


It continues. New Jersey Muslim Center Defaced With ‘Donald Trump,’ Racist Graffiti:
Police say they’ve arrested a 20-year-old man for spray-painting anti-Muslim messages and the words "Donald Trump" on a Muslim community center in Bayonne, New Jersey, early Friday morning.
The article goes on to explain that the community is trying to build a new mosque, but has been met with opposition from neighbors who have placed "Stop the Mosque" and "Save Bayonne" signs in their windows, partly because of traffic and parking concerns, but also out of Islamophobia.

I assume Christie has nothing to say about this.
posted by zachlipton at 3:53 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


partly because of traffic and parking concerns, but also out of Islamophobia.

I assume Christie has nothing to say about this.


I imagine Chritie would be in favor of both the Islamophobia and also the additional traffic problems.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


I assume Christie has nothing to say about this.

Christie's got enough traffic problems as it is.
posted by Mooski at 3:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Jinx. You owe me a coke.
posted by Mooski at 3:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


I wonder if Trump claims to see Muslims dancing and cheering in New Jersey on Nov 10.
posted by klarck at 3:57 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Wait, you guys are missing the real question: Why would Trump be travelling with a procurer of boys for sex?
posted by Sys Rq at 3:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [21 favorites]


I wonder if Trump claims to see Muslims dancing and cheering in New Jersey on Nov 10.

He'd probably be correct though. Stopped clock, etc., etc.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]



What I mean is— I know so many funny, brilliant, sly, kind, tender women. But for many of us, a lot of these qualities only become really evident when we are feeling safe.

When I am around men who make me feel unsafe, my behavior changes. They don’t get to see elements of who I am, because they can’t be trusted with that version of my self. I can’t count on them to treat her well. It isn’t worth the risk.


OMG, THIS. My husband is always going on about how funny I am, but why am I never that funny except when we're alone?

When I'm not around safe people, I am not me. I am exactly what I've been called my whole life: a bitch. Because I'd rather be a bitch than let them hurt me.
posted by threeturtles at 3:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [93 favorites]


Cavuto was interviewing Ben Stein. Cavuto was saying lots of republicans have given up and moved on to 2020. Stein said Trump is "not right in the head" and called him a wacko, and stressed how big of a mistake it was that republicans chose him.

BEN STEIN has given up on Trump????
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [22 favorites]


Early voting is up 22% in Virginia, 56% of that from NoVa alone

NoVa is heavily D DC suburbs, right?
posted by Talez at 4:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Barack can't run for President again, but can we let Michelle be First Lady for eight more years anyway?
posted by mbrubeck at 4:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Early voting is up 22% in Virginia, 56% of that from NoVa alone

All three Wallflowers have voted by mail. In addition, I appear to have convinced the postal clerk to vote for Clinton instead of sitting this one out, and Mrs. Wallflower may have persuaded a female former-Trumper to stay home on Election Day. You're welcome, America!
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [24 favorites]


It's never been a melting pot - It's always been more like a risotto.

--Mark Twain [fake]
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 4:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Eichenwald raises a good point: "Whether Trump's witness proves to be a nut or not, Trump just confessed he was on that plane beside that woman by putting the man forward."

He now either has to acknowledge he was there and sat next to Jessica Leeds, or call the witness his own campaign apparently lined up a liar.
posted by zachlipton at 4:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [94 favorites]


Yes, we're a bunch of commie mutant tratitors here, Talez.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


In an excellent use of his time, Trump will be campaigning in New Jersey tomorrow to try to woo Indian Americans.
The event is also unusual because the Indian American community overwhelmingly leans Democratic, with 70 percent planning to vote for Hillary Clinton compared with 7 percent for Trump, according to the most recent polls.
...
The Democratic Party’s tradition of “big tent” politics and its embrace of cultural diversity appeals to many recent immigrants. Shekar Narasimhan, of Fairfax, Va., said he thinks that Indians are actually being driven further into the Democratic fold by Trump’s antagonism toward immigrants. “It is as if a GPS is telling us, ‘Go left, young man!’ ” Narasimhan said.
At least it'll be a short trip back to Trump Tower for beddy-bye time.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Michelle for Shadow FLOTUS and Biden for Shadow VP
posted by drezdn at 4:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Barack can't run for President again, but can we let Michelle be First Lady for eight more years anyway?

She's done her duty - more than done it. She deserves a rest, and if we deserve it we'll get someone almost as good sooner than later.
posted by Mooski at 4:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


NoVa is heavily D DC suburbs, right?

Right. And even the republicans here don't care much for Trump, NoVa went Rubio in the primary.
posted by peeedro at 4:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


@neiltyson: If a Space Alien landed in the USA & requested: "Take me to your leader", I wonder how Pres Trump would react vs Pres Clinton

@jk_rowling: Afraid we need to know whether the alien has breasts before we can answer.
posted by chris24 at 4:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [123 favorites]


NoVa is heavily D DC suburbs, right?
Yup. Northern Virginia is prime Democratic territory. There are also a lot of Democrats in Richmond and Hampton Roads, but Northern Virginia is the region that is tipping Virginia blue at the moment. High turnout there is a good sign for Hillary, although honestly, I don't think that Virginia is really in contention at this point.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:08 PM on October 14, 2016


BEN STEIN has given up on Trump????

Stein's been saying bad things about Trump since around Super Tuesday at least.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:10 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Barack can't run for President again, but can we let Michelle be First Lady for eight more years anyway?

Oh, don't say that. 538 will write a story saying there's an 0.8% possibility this could happen if Michelle divorces Barak, Hillary divorces Bill, Michelle and Hillary get married and Hillary wins a second term. Constitutional and legal, but even I'm not sure I'm ready for that fic universe

Although you could power the entire US energy grid and send Wisconsin to Mars from the power of exploding heads, so perhaps we should explore this some more...
posted by Devonian at 4:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [25 favorites]


NoVa is heavily D DC suburbs, right?

D and rational R (Defense people, etc.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


BEN STEIN has given up on Trump?

I remember him ranting about how bad a choice Sarah Palin was, and how she knew basically nothing about anything, during the 2008 election.

So he's consistent, at least. Definitely doesn't like idiots.
posted by rokusan at 4:16 PM on October 14, 2016


One of Putin's surrogates has announced that not voting for Trump will result in nuclear war with Russia.

[real]
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Did everyone spot the Daily Kos story on the Evil Orange Cantaloupe's recent decision to blame ye olde global Jewish conspiracy for his woes? (I apologize if linked before.) The story led me to this excellent website, which I and Michelly recommend to all my fellow Jewish travelers.
posted by bearwife at 4:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


She's done her duty - more than done it. She deserves a rest, and if we deserve it we'll get someone almost as good sooner than later.

Will you? In the entire history of the United States I can think of only two FLOTUSes (FLOTI?) that are even in the same league as Michelle Obama. One was in the White House for just over 12 years and the other is running for President right now.
posted by Francis at 4:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


D and rational R (Defense people, etc.)

Like that Michael Flynn guy?
posted by indubitable at 4:19 PM on October 14, 2016


Uh, Ben Stein is crazy in his own special fashion, but I venture he can smell anti-Semitism a mile away.
posted by stolyarova at 4:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


Early voting appears to be up in NC as well, with Republican ballots lagging significantly. To the extent we can extrapolate election day turnout from early returns, which I don't know, someone might have the answer, it looks good for Democrats.

Republican enthusiasm gap, plus massive Dem ground game advantage, could lead to Democrats overperforming the polling.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


OK, managed to join the Mefites United phonebanking group. Trick is to follow that exact link. You can search for groups on the site, but there's no link to join (that I could find.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


One of Putin's surrogates has announced that not voting for Trump will result in nuclear war with Russia.

[real]


Zhirinovsky is constantly saying the most wackadoodle shit. He should be tagged with [real, but alternate reality]
posted by dis_integration at 4:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


NFL players rip Donald Trump for his take on concussions.

Donald Trump Is Tearing the NFL Apart (written before 2nd debate)
posted by gwint at 4:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Will you? In the entire history of the United States I can think of only two FLOTUSes (FLOTI?) that are even in the same league as Michelle Obama.

I'm an atheist, so this sounds odd coming off my fingertips, even to me, but I believe it nonetheless: when we need them, heroines and heroes appear.
posted by Mooski at 4:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


So, in order to prevent nuclear war, he wants us to elect the guy that is specifically for nuclear war?

That seems sort of self-defeating.
posted by Archelaus at 4:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


@SopanDeb: "Trump calls for a "boycott" of a single issue of People Magazine....presuming the one the most recent piece appears in?"

Trump again off on a long tangent defending himself.
posted by chris24 at 4:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I am coming forward as a witness to refute that Trump groped that woman in first class all those years ago.
For you see, in 1980 I was a 747.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 4:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [23 favorites]


NB: my husband is a cynical, cynical man so he looked into the Meridian Star and tells me that they have very deep pockets and are owned by "Retirement Systems of Alabama." They have been a daily since 1898 and came out in support of Obama. So my enthusiasm is dampened a bit, though still, good for them.
posted by thebrokedown at 4:32 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


The Democratic Party’s tradition of “big tent” politics and its embrace of cultural diversity appeals to many recent immigrants. Shekar Narasimhan, of Fairfax, Va., said he thinks that Indians are actually being driven further into the Democratic fold by Trump’s antagonism toward immigrants. “It is as if a GPS is telling us, ‘Go left, young man!’ ” Narasimhan said.

Shekar Narasimhan is the father of S.R. Sidarth, who is famous for being called "macaca" by a US senator. The GPS might be telling them to "go left," but the GOP is telling them to "go away!"
posted by peeedro at 4:37 PM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


two FLOTUSes (FLOTI?)

FLsOTUS. Or, let's just go ahead and say SPOTUS going forward. I don't think it's strictly necessary to indicate what gender the President's spouse has.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


I am getting tired of this "Hillary said mean things about women her husband slept with, therefore she is not a feminist" argument. Lincoln's well-documented racism didn't prevent him from endorsing and lobbying for the Emancipation Proclamation. You can be a feminist and still be mean to individual women. Ask me how I know.
posted by xyzzy at 4:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [75 favorites]


Oh boy, free range Trump coming.

@SopanDeb: Trump is saying his teleprompters haven't worked for last 20 minutes. Now he's physically having them removed from the stage.
posted by chris24 at 4:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


Forgot to write speech and/or can't read. Dollars to donuts.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]




I am coming forward as a witness to refute that Trump groped that woman in first class all those years ago.
For you see, in 1980 I was a 747.


Can confirm. Have an excellent memory.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Trump in NC: "By the way these teleprompter haven't been working for the last 20 minutes. And I actually like my speech better without teleprompters. And this way what I like about it, wait a minute. [Trump walks over to the teleprompter, messes with it, breaks it with an audible pop]... Hey get this thing out of here!...It's sort of cooler without it, don't you think?" Then he attacks Hillary's teleprompters: "she always just reads off the teleprompter, and it's short, and then she goes home and goes to sleep."
posted by zachlipton at 4:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


TRUMP IS GOING UP AGAINST MEDICARE PART D AND NEGOTIATING DRUG PRICES.

Fox tomorrow is going to have Donald Trump (D) by the end of this night.
posted by Talez at 4:43 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


> God uses imperfect men to achieve his aims. Example: King David. Ergo, you can still vote your conscience and vote for Trump. Keep your eyes on the Supreme Court, that is all that matters.

Seems like your stronger gods would also be able to use imperfect women for good, yet I never hear anybody say so.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 4:43 PM on October 14, 2016 [25 favorites]


Can't wait to see the battle of the teleprompter video.

Just made me realize, now that I'm sure Trump will lose, and I'm feeling relaxed, what the hell am I gonna do without this trainwreck to rubber neck at. What did I do before? I can't even remember life before Trump came floating down that escalator like a specter.
posted by dis_integration at 4:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


More on teleprompters: "So the teleprompter a bummer. It doesn't work. That means the company doing the teleprompter is in the back. That means they didn't do a good job so I won't pay them. I won't pay them. And tomorrow I'll have a story in the newspaper 'Donald Trump did not pay a contractor who put up the teleprompter.' Well why should I? They don't work. And they'll make me like a bad guy. I pay contractors on time. I'm so good....You have a bad contractor, don't pay or cut the price. You have a good contractor, get that money out fast."
posted by zachlipton at 4:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Here's a link to the live Trump speech, if you have the stomach.
posted by melissasaurus at 4:44 PM on October 14, 2016


Oh this is brilliant. It's not even unhinged rambling. It's like your drunk racist uncle at Thanksgiving.
posted by Talez at 4:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


I mean, if he were a good speaker, the teleprompter move could be part of a masterwork of ovation. Obama, given the right topic and need, could rock it and we'd be rubbing our hands together in a whole 'nother type of gleeful anticipation.

The thing is, like it or not, what Obama can accomplish to us, Trump can accomplish just as well with his base.

Not really sure what I'm getting at here, just navel gazing I suppose.
posted by RolandOfEld at 4:46 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


@sallykohn: "With every ugly and violent insult that comes out of his mouth, Trump loses a vote, and our country gains a feminist.” — @CecileRichards !!
posted by chris24 at 4:47 PM on October 14, 2016 [31 favorites]


Fox tomorrow is going to have Donald Trump (D) by the end of this night.

Explainer: Fox has a habit of labeling misbehaving Republicans with a (D) in the chyron.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:47 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


I mean, if he were a good speaker, the teleprompter move could be part of a masterwork of ovation. Obama, given the right topic and need, could rock it and we'd be rubbing our hands together in a whole 'nother type of gleeful anticipation.

Did you see "C'mon man!" Obama?
posted by Talez at 4:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


"You have a good contractor, get that money out fast."

From your foundation, of course.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 4:49 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


SECRETARY OF KEEPING BUSINESS IN THE UNITED STATES.

But it gets even better... HE'S GOING TO BE HIS OWN SECRETARY!

Holy shit this is crazy.
posted by Talez at 4:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


Anyone else hopiing that this is an extinction burst?
posted by asockpuppet at 4:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [27 favorites]


Now the speakers broke. HA!
posted by melissasaurus at 4:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Does he have a guitar he can light on fire?
posted by Artw at 4:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


Now the speakers broke. HA!

Maybe the contractor who set up the speakers and the teleprompter noped out of there when he realized he wasn't getting paid.
posted by dis_integration at 4:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [40 favorites]


Trump talking about all the people he's not going to pay.
posted by Talez at 4:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Now he's angry because people in one part of the hall can't hear. Upset about the speakers. "Now we don't have to pay for this, and now we don't have to pay for that. Man. Who the hell runs this place? They say the speakers don't work and I was having so much fun without these damn teleprompters.... See there, I wouldn't deduct full but I would take 30% off the price for the cut."

Update: "Oh they just got it working. We'll give them 20% off. Good. Thank you fellows that's great."
posted by zachlipton at 4:53 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Good luck on getting your gear back from a Trump gig.
posted by Artw at 4:53 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


@JYSexton Trump says Ford moving a plant to Mexico, someone yells Lock them up.

Who? The Ford executives? The people of Mexico? Anybody doing anything the crowd does not like?

@aliVitali Trump denying sex assault allegations says "you'd be very impressed, actually, with my life in so many regards, including that regard."

Does he mean we would be so impressed with his sex life or the quantity and quality of his sexual assaults?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:54 PM on October 14, 2016 [25 favorites]


Wondering how many in his audience are contractors...
posted by Sublimity at 4:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Is it that he cheats a lot so he couldn't possibly be a rapist? Because the two couldn't possibly overlap?
posted by Artw at 4:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]





Is this the one in Charlotte?
posted by Jalliah at 4:55 PM on October 14, 2016


Sopan Deb
"If you want the political experience of watching "Jessica" by the Allman Brothers live, watch a Trump speech off prompter."
posted by colt45 at 4:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Finally getting a chance to watch Michelle Obama's speech from yesterday and am so blown away. Just wow. That's got to be one of the best speeches that I've ever heard.
posted by octothorpe at 4:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]


I'm not watching--did he seriously break the teleprompter? Like, purposeful destruction of property, all being recorded?? While bragging about not paying for it??

Republicans better not say a fucking word about looters ever again omg.
posted by mixedmetaphors at 4:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


To save time, he should just talk about the people he is going to pay. So, basically, companies owned by or affiliated with his immediate family.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Yep, Charlotte. Send cookies to Cookiebastard.
posted by holgate at 4:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]



Cookiebastard is there if it is.

o.O
posted by Jalliah at 4:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


those who take pleasure in watching Trump destroy the Republican Party are missing the bigger picture. He’s trying to destroy the country, as well.

No, no, we get it, honestly. I'm not even sure if he loses and destroys the GOP all this shit will have been worth it even, what with the normalization of so much awfulness, but a consolation prize is still a prize.
posted by Artw at 4:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Maybe the contractor who set up the speakers and the teleprompter noped out of there when he realized he wasn't getting paid.

I wish the speaker guy would put on "You Can't Always Get What You Want" during Trump's speech and just leave.

I'll kick in $100 to his GoFundMe for new speakers.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 4:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


I keep hearing the crowd as "rabble rabble rabble"...

Btw is he talking about inner cities right now? Think I've got the right feed on the other machibe finally. Watched Greensboro feed for a bit and it was bad enough.
posted by RolandOfEld at 4:59 PM on October 14, 2016


"How many Hispanic Americans do we have here? One? (thinking it's really one, then some applause) Oh we have a lot."
posted by chris24 at 4:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Not listening to his babble in Charlotte but are there not a lot of people in that area in dire straights from hurricane/flooding? Surely there was empathy expressed on the part of Trump and his staff for their distress?
posted by robbyrobs at 5:00 PM on October 14, 2016


I'm not watching--did he seriously break the teleprompter? Like, purposeful destruction of property, all being recorded?? While bragging about not paying for it??

On review don't think he really broke it. He took the top screen part off and put it down, which made a thunking noise on the mic. Then he joked like he was going to knock the other one over. gif. video.

This better not be another DNC gavel; I can only obsess over a few such objects at a time.
posted by zachlipton at 5:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


...and I think he just said "How many Hispanics do we have here today?" ...silence... "One! Ok we got one that's ok." [Real]
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Looks Like Trump is Now Peddling Russian Propaganda | The Closer with Keith Olbermann | GQ

Payattention to the article "the." He was parroting Russian propaganda, but using the original article.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:00 PM on October 14, 2016


There is no requirement that the first lady be the President's spouse. This precedent was established by Harriet Lane during the Buchanan Presidency.
posted by humanfont at 5:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


My Amtrak was late. Has he said anything about fixing that?
posted by thelonius at 5:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


I'm don't think he really broke it. He took the top screen part off and put it down. Then he joked like he was going to knock the other one over.

Okay, thanks, that's a little more dignified than I was picturing. A little.
posted by mixedmetaphors at 5:03 PM on October 14, 2016


melissasaurus: "Here's a link to the live Trump speech, if you have the stomach."

Big nope on that one. My stomach is very happy after devouring an order of thai spicy noodles washed down with an Ithaca flower power ale and I have no desire to foul it by having to listen to that vulgar talking yam.
posted by octothorpe at 5:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Trump about the people behind him: "I love those signs 'Women for Trump.' Because I actually think I'm doing well with women."
posted by zachlipton at 5:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


"I love the women for Trump signs. Cuz I actually think I'm doing well with women."
posted by chris24 at 5:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


In the entire history of the United States I can think of only two FLOTUSes (FLOTI?) that are even in the same league as Michelle Obama. One was in the White House for just over 12 years and the other is running for President right now.

Abigail Adams
Dolley Madison
Edith Wilson

C'mon, fight me.
posted by Preserver at 5:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [25 favorites]


There is no requirement that the first lady be the President's spouse. This precedent was established by Harriet Lane during the Buchanan Presidency.
He surrounded himself with the wives of his friends and political advisers and contented himself with the company of his ward and niece, Harriet Lane. "Nunc," as Harriet referred to him..
Well, now the Feast of Crows readers know whom to blame.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Just made me realize, now that I'm sure Trump will lose, and I'm feeling relaxed, what the hell am I gonna do without this trainwreck to rubber neck at. What did I do before? I can't even remember life before Trump came floating down that escalator like a specter.

If you're like me, you feel like a sucker for falling for the slideshow.

Now let's find some ways to keep positive pressure on Clinton to do some good for the nation and the world.
posted by rokusan at 5:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Someone call Guinness Book of Records because I'm 90% sure Trump just beat the record for "World's Biggest Circlejerk".
posted by Talez at 5:10 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


I wish the speaker guy would put on "You Can't Always Get What You Want" during Trump's speech and just leave.

And for the record, the Stones are about to sue the fuck out of Trump because he won't stop playing their songs at rallies even after they C&D'ed him. (Mirror.co.uk link)
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:10 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Abigail Adams
Dolley Madison
Edith Wilson

C'mon, fight me.


You seriously left off Eleanor Roosevelt? Seriously? I will fight you.
posted by blue suede stockings at 5:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [24 favorites]


"Obama says global warming is our biggest threat. Our biggest threat is nuclear. It's nuclear warming."
posted by chris24 at 5:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


"Bernie said she had poor judgment. I said thank you Bernie, I'm going to be using that for about 6 months."
posted by chris24 at 5:12 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


"They are rigging the election. These are very dishonest folks."
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:12 PM on October 14, 2016


Ye gods, apparently Trump has even played "Brown Sugar" at rallies [real], which . . . well, not at all surprising, really.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


"Nuclear Warming" [real, Charlotte, sans prompter]
posted by tilde at 5:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


I, for one, will not relax until I've heard his concession, in whatever angry, deluded, vengeful form it takes.

Even then I'll brace for the shitstorm to come, but at this point, bring on the fresh hell already.
posted by clever sheep at 5:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


You seriously left off Eleanor Roosevelt? Seriously? I will fight you.

She was the "one in the White House for just over 12 years."
posted by Preserver at 5:15 PM on October 14, 2016 [22 favorites]



She was the "one in the White House for just over 12 years."


Ah, so you were adding your three to the previous commentator's two. I thought you left Eleanor off your own short list and I'm sorry but I just saw red. Sisters gotta stick up for each other right now.
posted by blue suede stockings at 5:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Signage update: I was in a part of town I don't visit often today and there was a stretch of 3' x 5' campaign signs, mostly for local elections, but there was a Trump "Make America Great Again" sign thrown in there too.

Someone had crossed out "great" and spray-painted "racist."

I cheered.
posted by mudpuppie at 5:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [43 favorites]


nuclear warming

No, no, you're getting it all wrong -- Trump's secret plan to fix the environment is to counterbalance global warming with just the right amount of nuclear winter [fake, but also a Secret Plan so potentially true?]
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


@reidepstein
I don't know that I've ever seen a candidate trash his own advance team the way Trump is doing in Charlotte tonight.

Does he even have an advance team at this point?
posted by melissasaurus at 5:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


On my way back from the beach last weekend, I saw similar Trump signs on the side of Delaware Rt 1.

Someone had spray-painted "PUSSY" over top of one of them.

I couldn't argue.
posted by delfin at 5:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Ah, so you were adding your three to the previous commentator's two. I thought you left Eleanor off your own short list and I'm sorry but I just saw red. Sisters gotta stick up for each other right now.

Yes, I was adding them to the original three (Eleanor, Hillary, Michelle).

Might add Lou Henry Hoover, too.
posted by Preserver at 5:21 PM on October 14, 2016


MeFites United is currently at the top of the leaderboard with 53 calls!

I'll share my personal experience in case it might encourage anyone to join us. Between my team calls and the ones I made personally before the team was formed, I've made 38 calls. My scripts basically have me asking two questions: 1) Are you voting for Hillary, and 2) if so, would you be interested in volunteering.

Of my 38 calls, only three people have answered the phone. One said he wasn't voting for anyone, and two said they're voting for Hillary. No one wanted to volunteer. Everyone was very nice. The call tool gives you their name and age and so far almost all of my calls have been to older people. You get to choose what state you want to call and the scripts are a little bit different so I actually looked at a few to choose the one I felt most comfortable with. I think they only have you calling people who have voted Democrat in the past, so the chances of getting someone yelling at you are low.

I wanted to go to the phone banking event at my local Dem HQ last night but my introversion won, as usual. Making calls from home was hard enough. But, after the first 10 or so it got a lot easier and I'm totally comfortable with it now. It's a great antidote to the impotent fury I was generating from sitting here reading these monster campaign threads.

If you're pissed off, come on over and make some calls. It's very therapeutic!
posted by HotToddy at 5:21 PM on October 14, 2016 [74 favorites]


There are people that seem to think the press interviewing someone making an accusation is like being in a crowd where someone says "Hey! This guy says he saw somethin'! Lets hear him out!"
I have worked in print journalism for nearly 20 years. Even at the level that I am at, which is hardly working for the NY Times, no one would ever let so much as a restaurant review go to press without some vetting.
No one is putting someone on the air without examining their claim. The reporters may make it seem like they are hearing the story for the first time to add a human angle to things, but believe me, those stories are examined from a number of angles before they are even approved to be worked on in the first place.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 5:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


NBC News: CIA Prepping for Possible Cyber Strike Against Russia

...unprecedented cyber assault...
...cyber covert action...
..."clandestine" cyber operation...
...begun opening cyber doors...
...analyzing Russian cyber capabilities...
...respond to Russia via cyber means...
...our own cyber force...
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 5:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


This calls for....VR Troopers!
posted by Senor Cardgage at 5:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Yeah they were sitting around after burgers and just figured, "hey waitaminit - we got all this gear. Let's get 'em!" In 2016
posted by petebest at 5:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I was in a part of town I don't visit often today...

Just wanted to clarify that I was referring the the McMansion part of town, not, like, "the other side of the tracks" part of town. I realized that could have come off as classist. And it was, but not in the way you'd normally expect. That is all.

posted by mudpuppie at 5:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


no one would ever let so much as a restaurant review go to press without some vetting.

The NY Post (Murdoch-owned, probably the lone Trump-endorsing paper) apparently will.
posted by holgate at 5:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I have one long meeting and there's 500 comments in a new thread! Holy crap. I'm so glad it's Friday. I could really use a day or two of slow news.
posted by Sophie1 at 5:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


How does one protest a cyber war? I'm serious. We've got a long history of knowing what to chant and what to put on signs to fight against a hot war. What the heck do you do to protest a cyber one? "Hey hey. Ho ho. BGP spoofing attacks have got to go" doesn't really roll off the tongue.
posted by zachlipton at 5:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


NBC News: CIA Prepping for Possible Cyber Strike Against Russia

Geez, CIA. What about the element of surprise?
posted by Talez at 5:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Anyone else hoping that this is an extinction burst?

Of the GOP since 2008, yes.
posted by fleacircus at 5:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


So, okay, I went over to Twitter to read that thread with the awesome J.K. Rowling snap. And while I was there I discovered...

....Someone is actually trying to spin the whole "Pussygate" thing into a slacktivism thing, by trying to get Trump to "tweet about boobs instead, because it is Breast Cancer Awareness Month."

And...Okay, you know in that Star Trek movie where Spock's brother was going around mind-melding with people to find out what their deepest trauma was so he coulld get them to unburden themselves and heal or something? Imagine instead he was reaching in to find out what would piss someone off most.

Breast cancer slacktivism is what does that for me, and combining that with Trump is making me want to PUNCH MY COMPUTER THROUGH A WALL
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [37 favorites]


Re the impending shit storm over Trump losing, I think the case historically is that cult of personalities completely dissipate once the personality is neutralized.

trump losing is big time neutralizing so no I think it will be over for him.
posted by angrybear at 5:31 PM on October 14, 2016


NBC News: CIA Prepping for Possible Cyber Strike Against Russia

I think they just need a crack team of commandos to live on Russian social media and news sites making pro-USA comments and creating anti-Putin dank memes. That seems to have been an effective tactic for the Russians to use on European and US sites.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:32 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


trump losing is big time neutralizing so no I think it will be over for him.

You know who else lost big time once?
posted by Mooski at 5:32 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


> What about the element of surprise?

The CIA will be coming in through ports A and B. We've got them surrounded.
posted by vbfg at 5:32 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


> "trump losing is big time neutralizing so no I think it will be over for him."

Only if his cult acknowledges it as a loss.
posted by kyrademon at 5:32 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


I've done phone banking too and while it's not my most favorite way to spend a few hours, it's not that bad. 95% of people won't pick up, and you don't leave messages so as soon as it goes to voicemail you hang up and move on. The lists are all likely Democratic voters and depending on what list you're working off of you'll just be checking for support and reminding them about downballot races, recruiting volunteers, or doing GOTV for places with early voting. Every now and then you'll get someone on there who shouldn't be, but the point of the call isn't to convert them, it's to thank them for their time, get the hell off the phone with them and mark them on your list as a Trump voter so that no other volunteers will waste their time tying to contact that person again.

I've both phoned and door-knocked (canvassing works the same way as calling - you aren't going to every door, just specific ones identified on a list of likely or leaning Clinton voters) and responses have ranged from mildly annoyed to elated high fiving and offers of snacks.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:32 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


Protip: when you're doing phonebanking, whether in-person or online, don't obsess over the script. They want two or three questions answered, so figure out how you can naturally get to those question without sounding like a robot. I tend to ignore half the script.

After a while you'll be perusing MeFi while the phone rings.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:32 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Hey, all "cyber strike" means is that we're sending Billy Idol to Moscow or something.
posted by delfin at 5:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Good lord... I just called out a Clinton supporter on Twitter for sexism (they called a CNN reporter a "skank," I said I'm a HRC supporter), and I get called a troll and a snake.

Fuck misogyny.
posted by krinklyfig at 5:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [29 favorites]


Clinton Derangement Syndrome is a thing, and the Republicans cannot resist. She was always going to bring out the worst in whoever went up against her... we just didn't expect it to be, like, this-worst.

So just by showing up, she forced the Republican party to throw a tempetantrum of such epic proportions that they put forth Donald Trump as a candidate?

I don't buy that. And Trump's problematic behavior has nothing to do Clinton Derangement Syndrome. That's shit he's been getting away with for years.

Yeah, it sucks that his shitty behavior has taken center stage. It sucks that we get to hear people normalize that behavior (although hearing all the push back almost makes up for that). But that's all on him and the party that out him forth.

The reasonable candidate, who does talk about other issues*, didn't cause this clusterfuck. Implying otherwise seems to be getting into false equivalency territory.

*His problematic behavior, all aspects of it, is an issue, he's runninghe presidency. His actions and behavior in office (god forbid) could have dire implications beyond just the standard policy issues that people can legitimately disagree on. Plus, you know, not wanting to subject everyone to the racist mysonginist bile he regularly emits for four years seems reasonable to me.
posted by ghost phoneme at 5:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


I think the case historically is that cult of personalities completely dissipate once the personality is neutralized.

I remember someone posting a picture on reddit of Mitt Romney buying Cheerios in a CVS after he lost. I long for those benign silly days. The fact that Mitt Romney's loss now reads to me as benign and silly is sort of alarming too. What is it when you've faced so much bullshit that previous bullshit seems almost comical and indulgent? UGH. Michael Moore's Farenheit 911 is like Julie Andrews twirling around a nunnery in Salzburg now.
posted by asockpuppet at 5:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


> The article goes on to explain that the community is trying to build a new mosque, but has been met with opposition from neighbors who have placed "Stop the Mosque" and "Save Bayonne" signs in their windows,

As god is my witness, when I first read this I thought it said "Save Beyoncé," and I didn't even blink—this election is so crazy I just figured "Well, Beyoncé must have said something weird." Can't wait for all this to be over...
posted by languagehat at 5:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


...unprecedented cyber assault...
...cyber covert action...
..."clandestine" cyber operation...
...begun opening cyber doors...
...analyzing Russian cyber capabilities...
...respond to Russia via cyber means...
...our own cyber force...


It's hilarious to me how a decade or more after the public has abandoned the cheesy, corny cyber prefix, the US Military has doubled-down on it.

Now, I guess military-types have never really intersected with "cool", much, but like... the United States Cyber Command is an actual thing. It's not even a nickname, that's the real name.

Look. At. That. Official. Emblem.
posted by rokusan at 5:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


Woah. Are you like psychic pbo?

Donald Trump Assails His Accusers as Liars, and Unattractive

Even as two new women came forward on Friday to say that he had groped them, Mr. Trump dismissed the mounting charges against him as “total fiction” and “lies, lies, lies.” He assailed the motives of the women speaking out against him, and seemed to mock two of them as insufficiently attractive to draw his interest.

“Believe me, she would not be my first choice,” Mr. Trump said of Jessica Leeds, who said Mr. Trump groped her on an airplane in the 1980s. He referred to Ms. Leeds, now 74, as “that horrible woman.”


Referred to her as "that woman" in an effusive denial, you say?
posted by petebest at 5:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


The Trump cult is based on Winning. It can't sustain if its losing.

Actually I think this is the corner the GoP has painted itself into. So the the key is to keep beating them.

He migh get a stupid Sarah plain following but what does that amount to.
posted by angrybear at 5:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


"He scolded me about my penmanship on my phone number because it was hard for me to read"

This was a classic "neg" in the PUA underbelly around then. No way she made that up.
posted by lastobelus at 5:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


So just by showing up, she forced the Republican party to throw a tempetantrum...

I did not say that, and I am in no way "blaming" this on Clinton.

I'm saying that given how the Republicans have reacted to and handled both of the Clintons for the last couple of decades, it was very predicable that we'd have a dirty campaign heavy on social wedge issues here, regardless of who they nominated. The Clintons, for whatever reason, bring out irrational hatred from the right.

That Trump ended up carrying the banner just dialed everything up to 11. It was always going to happen to some degree.
posted by rokusan at 5:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Trump to address nation in ‘more personal way’

Jesus, is he going to start lobbing insults at the rest of us too?
posted by mudpuppie at 5:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [39 favorites]


Retired Admiral James Stavridis told NBC News that the U.S. should attack Russia's ability to censor its internal internet traffic and expose the financial dealings of Putin and his associates.
THAT's how we'll finally see all of Trump's tax returns!
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


don't obsess over the script.

I almost immediately start unconsciously adopting my interlocutors' speech patterns which means here in Kentucky that it often turns into like an outtake of If The Dukes Of Hazzard Agreed About A Woman's Right To Choose
posted by Greg Nog at 5:45 PM on October 14, 2016 [57 favorites]




The panel on AC360 is trying to teach Congressman Jack Kingston that what Trump said was admitting to sexual assault and Andre Bauer is (wisely) just keeping his mouth shut.
posted by Talez at 5:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


A friend posted this on her FB page today. With photos.
While driving down MY OWN STREET, this Devil in a blue truck pulls along the side of me, rolls down his window, SPITS ON MY CAR, and then screams out "I HOPE SOMEONE KILLS YOU, YOU N****R BITCH!" In shock (and fear to a certain extent) I grabbed my phone to try to record or get a photo of him and he posed proudly for the camera. I then see the rear of his car ... a Trump supporter... I'm now parked in my driveway shaking.
People, this is in Los Angeles. I am horrified and I feel like we need to all, Muslims and Jews, xtians and blacks and Latin@s and Asians and queers and trans and immigrants of all stripes need to form a coalition of people against white supremacy. How do we make this happen?
posted by Sophie1 at 5:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [110 favorites]


> "Trump to address nation in ‘more personal way’"

I ... I think he's going to grope us all.
posted by kyrademon at 5:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [28 favorites]


Here's another take on how or why people have become Trump supporters.

My boomer parents got hooked on Fox news years ago and have become total tea-party kooks.

It was a result of conditioning. They spent their formative and young adult lives in an era when TV JOURNALISTS/REPORTERS were heroes of the people. Edward R Murrow, Walter Cronkite etc. were expected and known to report with accuracy and integrity. When folks watched "the news" on tv, it was just the facts. They were very trustworthy.

Many years later when CNN and later FOX changed the game, most of that segment of the population didn't ask questions...they just bought the bill of goods thinking that they were being presented the straight, honest facts. The Rs totally used that conditioning...they have for decades since the Reagan presidency.

What really breaks my heart is that my folks are incredibly intelligent and highly educated. THEY were the ones who taught me to QUESTION EVERYTHING! But even in light of everything that's been exposed regarding that shit-heel Trump, they are still hard-liners. Members of some trumped up tribe of asshole racists because it's easier to point fingers and be a follower than to ask serious questions and wonder just WTF is going on. Hate is very easy for humans.

Love and compassion takes work and effort. Personally, I AM VERY WILLING TO DO THE FUCKING WORK!

FWIW, Dip-shit Eric Trump said something about his pop being an Alpha...REAL ALPHAS KEEP THEIR EYES OPEN TO PROTECT AND SERVE THOSE WHO NEED HELP! Not abuse them. Fuckers.
posted by 1980sPunkersForHillary.com at 5:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [46 favorites]


Trump to address nation in ‘more personal way’

I literally shuddered and recoiled. Do not want, do not want at all.
posted by yasaman at 5:54 PM on October 14, 2016 [20 favorites]


Trump to address the nation? What exactly is he going to address us about that he can't or won't or is not already saying in his stump speeches? By "a more personal way", will he be sitting in a plush chair in front of a roaring fire, stroking a white cat? Why am I getting flashbacks to McCain in the fall of 2008 briefly suspending his campaign to address the financial crisis? And if/when Trump addresses the nation, undoubtedly with wall-to-wall coverage, will Hillary be afforded the same opportunity?
posted by The Nutmeg of Consolation at 5:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


1980sPunkersforHillary.com, did you join Metafilter just to post in our election threads? Welcome!
posted by peacheater at 5:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [19 favorites]


> Trump to address nation in ‘more personal way’

Holy shit, who tailored that jacket? It looks likes a wool trash bag that somebody over-ironed.
posted by boo_radley at 5:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Re: The difficulty Hillary would have as president if there's a Republican majority in the Senate, House, or both.

I was on the the Republican majority staff of a key congressional committee during the 105th Congress. I was on the team for two bills where Hillary and her staff were our primary White House contact and negotiating adversary (I don't like using that word to describe it, but that's how it is, so there you go). One of those bills was signed into law (which is always surprising).

That was at the beginning of my legal career, and I've now worked for many years handling complex litigation in state and federal courts. And I have never handled a case where I did not apply at least something I learned from watching Hillary and her team from the other side of the table.

I'm telling you right now that there is no challenge as president that she cannot handle. None. Everything you've ever heard about what a brilliant strategist Bill is is true of her. She is as tough as anyone I've met and as effective and brilliant a legal mind as any litigator I've ever known. She is infuriatingly clever and almost unfathomably strategic. And she sees the big picture of legislation and government better than just about anyone.

I spent a lot of hours working against her. And now I'm proud to say I'm with her. Because she's with all of us. She's with America. And it would be a joke to pretend anybody can do the job better than she can. People can accurately criticize her by griping that she's been gunning for this job her entire life and thinks she's entitled to it. And that's exactly why she gets my vote. Nobody is more qualified. Nobody has spent as much time preparing for the job as her. Nobody will work as hard as she will in that office. Nobody.
posted by The World Famous at 5:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [352 favorites]


More fun from the "Unattractive" article:

Senator Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania, who is seeking re-election, released a television commercial saying he has “a lot of disagreements” with Mr. Trump.

Boom! Pat Toomey slaa- wait, that's it? That's not even weak.

Paul D. Ryan, the speaker of the House, who announced this week that he would no longer defend Mr. Trump, ignored him entirely in a speech to college Republicans in Wisconsin. Mr. Ryan criticized Mrs. Clinton and Democratic policies, but made no case for his own party’s nominee.

Jeesh for a zombie-eyed granny starver he's no fun.

Mr. Trump’s bitter attacks on the news media, and Mr. Slim in particular, seem to echo the precise language used by several of his advisers, Stephen K. Bannon and Roger Stone, who have long cast Mr. Slim as an ominous presence in the American news media.

Oh, right. I wondered what that Carlos Slim thing was about. Trumpy wanna cracker.
posted by petebest at 5:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


BREAKING: After searching thousands of hours of videotape, Trump was discovered to have said something respectful. (Fake)
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]




"Trump to address nation in ‘more personal way’"

#StateoftheGroper
posted by nubs at 6:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Shit you guys. MSNBC and CNN just went black. I checked on Twitter and someone in Georgia is reporting the same. I'm in Los Angeles.
posted by Sophie1 at 6:01 PM on October 14, 2016


peacheater: I'm actually snsranch! Been just lurking for a couple of years. Fired up a new handle because I'M SO EXCITED!!!!!

Thanks for the welcome! It's nice to be back!
posted by 1980sPunkersForHillary.com at 6:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [37 favorites]


CNN is on here in DC.
posted by mrzarquon at 6:04 PM on October 14, 2016


I see where you're coming from now rokusan, thank you. Although I'd argue Trump and the current clusterfuck is the result of the right's social wedge tactics, rather than the cause, but that's probably a chicken or the egg question.
posted by ghost phoneme at 6:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]




Cnn fne in dukes county, mass.
posted by vrakatar at 6:06 PM on October 14, 2016


A fun video from Australia showing Hillary's lighter side when she was Secretary of State (via the Hillary Clinton subreddit).
posted by peacheater at 6:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


And MSNBC is up also.
posted by mrzarquon at 6:06 PM on October 14, 2016


By "a more personal way",

...I can only assume this means he is going to finally tweet a dick pic. It's about the only thing left for him to do.
posted by MoonOrb at 6:07 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


"Trump to address nation in ‘more personal way’"

Translated from weaselspeak, this means he's going to make a speech which he hopes will get full media coverage and he doesn't have to pay anything. Sort of like that "news conference" he held at his new hotel a few weeks ago.
posted by teirnon at 6:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


My cable TV is out completely in DTLA (twc) but I still have internet.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 6:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


So Trump is going to fire up all his marketing arms and then start some concerted push to his website, right? Or is it going to be a directed push at breitbart. What direction do you all think the Trump scam will take next?
posted by cashman at 6:09 PM on October 14, 2016


"Give me money, which I will use to fight voter fraud?"
posted by Spathe Cadet at 6:10 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Probably going to fire up his webcam.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 6:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


So I know we've been doing a collective massive eyeroll at Trump's second line of defense against the women coming forward to describe being assaulted by Trump (the first line of defense being the deplorable claim that the women's status as liars is proven by their being insufficiently attractive to warrant sexual assault.) That second line of defense is that the mainstream media are in the pocket of the Clintons and the "international elite" and a wealthy Mexican shareholder of the NY Times, and are all involved in a vast conspiracy to get Clinton elected.

But the thing that really scares me is how this claim of Trump's is taken seriously by a huge slice of the American populace, not just some fanatical fringe. I think it's hard for MeFites to comprehend, because our whole joint venture is about sharing and linking media stories, being able to evaluate sources' authoritativeness, and presuming that there is some empirical reality we can jointly agree upon as the basis for discussion. But it's not just the noisy attendees of Trump rallies shouting "Fuck CNN!" who reject a worldview like ours as at best deluded, and more likely collusion.

Take a good look at this Gallup poll of last month, looking at Americans faith in the "mass media," as Gallup words the question. You'll see a graph displaying data over the past 20 years, starting in 1997. It's clear that party affiliation plays a significant role in how much trust Americans feel in the mass media. In 1997, 64% of Democrats basically trusted the mass media, in comparison to 53% of Independents and 41% of Republicans. By 2015, those figures were 55% of Democrats, 33% of independents, and 32% of Republicans. That's a drop of 9 points for both Democrats and Republicans. What happened during the intervening 20 years was undoubtedly related to the introduction of Fox News (in 1995), and then the influence of social media (Facebook, YouTube and Reddit all enter the scene in 2005). Faith in the "mass media" declined as more individually filtered news consumption took over.

But then look at what happened in just one year--a year of presidential campaigning featuring Donald Trump. Democrats lost 4 percentage points of confidence in the mass media. Independents lost 3. And Republicans lost EIGHTEEN percentage points of confidence in the "mass media" (which they must surely be hearing as the "mainstream media," nemesis of Trump, Fox, and the alt right). Only 14% of Republicans now say they have a great deal or fair amount of confidence in the mass media.

To me, this is a total parallel to what's happened on the right under the reign of Fox and Reddit and Breitbart and Trump with regard to trust in science and in academia. Institutions that produce knowledge through studies, that teach it in colleges, and that disseminate in the news have all been demonized as biased, liberal, and untrustworthy. The content of that knowledge--empirical facts, tested by science and fact-checking and peer review--can therefore be dismissed. What was once a position of the far right fringe--that all of the reality being described to us by experts is a conspiratorial lie--has become mainstream on the right.

Republicans, who spent decades complaining about what they termed progressives' "moral relativisim," now believe in *empirical relativism*. There are no objective facts any more, according to them. There are only competing views of reality that are determined by political belief. Reality is a matter of faith. It's a matter of who is in charge. It's Orwellian.

The drudgery of the Middle Ages came to an end with the Enlightenment. The Enlightenment led to the industrial revolution and an explosion of intellectual creativity, all founded on one central idea: that humans should use their capacity for reason to discover the truth about the world, and share that truth. Instead of just learning by rote whatever the King or the Bible said, we should seek new knowledge, and test it. Other people should check our facts. Objective truth should be discovered, and published, and used to better the state of humanity.

It really seems to me that Trump and his ilk want to put an end to the Enlightenment. They want to return us to an era of the nature of empirical reality being defined by competing faiths, each with a set of unverifiable beliefs, warring with one another. They want to go Medieval on science, academia, and the press.

I guess I should say, not that they want to do this, but they have done so. Their conspiratorial dismissal of the idea of objective reality that can be researched and fact-checked has spread and become the new status quo. Just look at that figure one more time: only 14% of Republicans in America have even a fair amount of trust in the "mass media."

These are scary times.
posted by DrMew at 6:12 PM on October 14, 2016 [133 favorites]


Fuller context on "more personal way" (after a paragraph ranting about and denying the Zervos allegation):
Hillary Clinton can spend all of her time and money pushing complete lies against our campaign, but I refuse to fall victim to this vicious cycle of personal attacks. In the coming days I plan on addressing our nation in a more personal way to present my vision for how together we fight to bring back American jobs and defend our country against radical Islamic terrorism. I will take my message directly to the American people and bypass the unethical press that wants to see their candidate elected. Together, we will make America great again.
In other words, he wants to say something directly rather than have the press be involved. I'm not sure how much more direct he wants to be, since they still cover the heck out of every word that come out of his mouth, but there you go. Maybe he'll do an online town hall or something.
posted by zachlipton at 6:13 PM on October 14, 2016


Dammit. I better stock up before the inevitable 300% price increase on my precious

i'm sad that this will likely remove all opportunity for me to get in on the ground floor of the new oligarchy


In Cuba, cigars are for everyone, my friend, not only the wealthy, and the finest rum is the $1 bottle you pass around the fire with strangers on the beach. Join us!

(Damn, I need to get back soon.)
posted by rokusan at 6:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Watching that Elfman thing I thought: Donnie thinks running for prez is a simple as winning his reality show, the footage can be edited down, he never realized the cameras will catch every gross moment, truth 24 times a second, it is as if his own camera loving ego is being sharpened and honed into a lance, and now it punctures him 24 times a second for the next few weeks. Maybe months. Maybe forever.
posted by vrakatar at 6:16 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


We got a Trump mailing. They were asking for an emergency donation, in order to beat Clinton. I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.

Am I a bad person?


My mother-in-law used to save her used batteries to mail back in the postage paid envelopes of the anti-choice groups whose mailing lists she signed up for.
posted by rbellon at 6:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [85 favorites]


looking at Americans faith in the "mass media," as Gallup words the question.

And Gallup is no dout part of that perceived mass media that they are asking about. I'd expect that's part of the reported wider decline in approval numbers from the conservatives.
posted by petebest at 6:18 PM on October 14, 2016


> Jesus, is he going to start lobbing insults at the rest of us too

I wasn't shocked when he insulted women (me!) and liberals (me!) and Hillary supporters (me!) but when he felt it was necessary to throw shade at my fellow concussion-sufferers -- that honestly took be by surprise.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [23 favorites]


Donald Trump is setting the stage to never concede the 2016 election

If there is anything to the various "Putin is supporting Trump and interfering with our election" allegations, I have to concede that it could be (and maybe already is) terrifyingly effective. Let's posit that Trump does not win the election, even then the shit-show is almost certainly not over, and the damage to America's ability to lead internationally could be considerable. For example, the ability to focus on issues of importance. For example, the ability to get serious input and expertise on both sides of an issue while formulating policy. I appreciated The World Famous's comments about negotiating with Hillary's team as a Republican. As a left-leaning Democrat, I believe that government works best when there are (at least) two parties that have intelligent beliefs, integrity, and respect for each other, and who will hold the other accountable if they overstep -- so as much as I would be tempted to gloat if the GOP self-destructs, I cannot imagine that would be good for America. Unless somehow an "adversary" that I could respect rises like a phoenix from the ashes. I hope Hillary's is forward-looking enough to help that happen... do we need a Marshall Plan for US politics?
posted by brambleboy at 6:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


I will take my message directly to the American people and bypass the unethical press

MOAR RALLIES
posted by vrakatar at 6:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Sign report, from east-central Louisville, KY (mostly white, medium-prosperous blue-collar): about 3 Clinton-Kaine signs popping up as if by magic in my 'hood. There's been an enormous Rand Paul for Senate sign nearby for some time, and a few small Jim Gray (Paul's challenger) signs. Still a handful of Bernie 2016 signs on lawns and in windows. No Trumps.
posted by jackbishop at 6:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


In the last thread, someone (EmpressC, maybe? It's hard to search on this tablet.) expressed her excitement about requesting HRC inauguration tickets. Kid Ruki and I went to the 2012 inauguration and it was an amazing experience. The kid was eleven, and I'm thoroughly convinced that that day sparked their activist spirit. The worst part was that an anti-choice activist climbed a tree nearby and his shouting made it hard to hear. But, I'll be honest, I'm straight up too scared to request tickets again. I can't guarantee that I'd be able to keep my AFAB agender kid safe. That anti-choice activist is well known (not linking to his name, but he's easy to find online) and he was admitted to the Capitol Lawn. Security is tight, I know. I almost threw out the kid's cell phone because they hadn't charged it and we wouldn't be admitted if it didn't turn on (it had just enough charge to eventually show the Verizon logo) so I know no one will be getting in with weapons, but the thought of being in such a huge crowd with Trumpists (because those politicians have tickets, too) terrifies me. To be a woman, with a non gender performing child, in the midst of that... Fuck them for successfully scaring me. Fuck Trump for literally inciting terror. Fuck all of them for taking this historic moment, where a woman will be President, and reminding us yet again that it's not enough. We are not enough, according to them, and the them is bigger than I thought. What a glorious and horrific time to be a woman.
posted by Ruki at 6:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


I wish there was someplace I could post questions about how to respond to my friends' sincere objections to Hillary without completely derailing the thread. One of my Twitter followers just came into my mentions, and... I know she's coming from a place of good faith, and I have strong objections about our role in wars overseas as well. (I had this objection with Obama and with Hill's husband.) At the same time, I care about the Supreme Court, LGBTQIA issues, reproductive rights, and the minimum wage, and I know Hillary does too. I also trust her with the nuclear codes. I don't have the energy to get into a discussion about this now, but I wish I could explain my concerns about the Democrats' involvement in overseas wars but still explain why I'm voting for Hillary.
posted by pxe2000 at 6:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


One of my strongest early political memories is the replay of Hillary Clinton talking about a "vast right-wing conspiracy" over and over and over and over. Trump is literally accusing her of a vast left-wing conspiracy. Trump's fucking Mirror, guys.
posted by gatorae at 6:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


I don't have enough evidence to say that Trump will attempt to make a TV speech, but if he were to do that, he might have to buy the time with actual money. Sometimes the time is given for free, sometimes not. In either case, if networks grant him time, they have to offer the same amount of time under the same conditions to Secretary Clinton. Equal Time Rule

Right now, it sounds to me like he's trying to indicate that his rally speeches will pivot to policy matters (but it's entirely Secretary Clinton's fault if sexual assault accusers keep appearing which prevent that pivot.) Even his base realizes that retaliation comes before policy, and they may well prefer that. I couldn't speak to that...
posted by Silverstone at 6:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I suspect that the Human Anagram and maybe a couple of other politically astute would encourage the Traffic Cone to concede. Even Ailles knows that to claim foul is the path to insanity. If nothing else, they have a TV network to launch once this is done.
posted by Ber at 6:31 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I don't have enough evidence to say that Trump will attempt to make a TV speech.

He really needs to make a TV speech, he hasn't promoted one of his hotels in a while.
posted by Omon Ra at 6:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


>I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.

>Am I a bad person?

I seem to recall that in Steal This Book, Abbie Hoffman recommended taping a postage-paid card to a brick and dropping it in the mail. Less likely to be delivered, but more satisfying as a symbolic gesture, I guess.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 6:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Buzzfeed Republican Women Blast Trump For Mocking Accusers’ Looks
Katie Packer, who served as Mitt Romney’s deputy campaign manager in 2012 and has been a sharp critic of Trump, responded to Trump’s attacks on the accusers’ attractiveness with barbed sarcasm. “I’m sure that 90% of the women in America will breathe a sigh of relief to know that you can’t be sexually assaulted unless you look like a supermodel.”

She attributed the nominee’s behavior to that of a “predator who has been trapped … lashing out at those who have cornered him.” Trump, she said, “gets his rocks off on controlling and intimidating women who have less power than him.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [45 favorites]


Just FYI I'm making risotto for dinner tonight pretty much entirely because of this thread.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 6:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [32 favorites]


I wish there was someplace I could post questions about how to respond to my friends' sincere objections to Hillary without completely derailing the thread.

I don't think it's a derail to ask how to deal with a person who is legitimately sitting the fence - in fact, assuming a person is sitting the fence between Clinton and Trump is probably a mistake, in this venue. My response would be that Clinton is the only realistic alternative to Trump, and that we as an electorate can apply pressure to the less agreeable policies after we have made sure Trump doesn't become president.
posted by Mooski at 6:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I told our congressional race we would be willing to house staffers from out of town if needed, and tonight, got the call- they need housing for a couple from DC (both staffers) until the Election! And I said yes! I must be crazy. Hope this will be fun. Either way, it will be an adventure. Tomorrow, I scramble to get the room in shape- probably should try to find a lamp that isn't broken.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


Donald Trump is setting the stage to never concede the 2016 election

Him never conceeding also gives Congressional Republicans the excuse they didn't even need to deny Hilary her SCOTUS appointment, or any judicial or executive appointments at all.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


I wish I could explain my concerns about the Democrats' involvement in overseas wars but still explain why I'm voting for Hillary.

Either Trump or Clinton will be president. Which of the two will do more good per your definition of good?

Perfect shouldn't be the enemy of good because, in the case of a WTO binary election, perfect isn't on the ballot and trying to maintain "perfect" because good isn't good enough helps "bad" win.

Here's the thing about the lesser of two evil arguments from my point of view. Less evil means more good. Vote for the more good candidate. Vote against the less good candidate.

I mean, this is totally simplistic but its still a greyscale rainbow more complex than "all evil is evil even lesser evil and I must either vote good or vote evil so I'll let 'really pretty fucking evil' beat 'sort of evil but often good evil' so that I can be a special snowflake."
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Billy Bush expected to get $10 million settlement from NBC
Bush and his legal team have been battling with NBC News chiefs to iron out a settlement — which, sources exclusively tell Page Six, will involve a large lump payment said to be the full value of his three-year contract, valued at around $10 million.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:37 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Him never conceeding also gives Congressional Republicans the excuse they didn't even need to deny Hilary her SCOTUS appointment, or any judicial or executive appointments at all.

I think that's paranoia. When Clinton wins, the Republican establishment will issue public acknowledgment of that fact whether or not Trump does so. Paul Ryan will put out a statement saying, for example, that he called to congratulate Hillary Clinton and he hoped they would be able to work together for the good of the nation.
posted by Justinian at 6:37 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Trump to address nation in ‘more personal way’
He probably yelled to a flunky: "GET MARK BURNETT ON THE LINE! I NEED SOME OF HIS EDITORS!"
"Uh, sir, he's no longer taking our calls"
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:37 PM on October 14, 2016


I'm not convinced his campaign is competent enough to stream a laptop webcam to his site.

Or the audio cuts out. After the crappy rambulous speech some besuited fsckstick leans in to close the camera. Like that. I also have doubts about the viability of a new multimedia company associated with Trumpophone.
posted by petebest at 6:38 PM on October 14, 2016


I think Conway may have run out of fucks to give after the disasterous rally in North Carolina. CNN reports after Trump knocked over his TelePrompTer and went back to wordsalad:
"You know we let Trump be Trump," she said. "It's the end of teleprompters for tonight."
Asked if Trump would be back on the teleprompters at his next rally, Conway muttered "who knows" before offering a tongue-in-cheek comment:
"He's always on message, don't you think?"
posted by humanfont at 6:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [44 favorites]


I find it hard to believe that Kellyanne ever had any fucks, for anyone or anything.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


[Couple deleted. Let's not go in the direction of joking about something bad happening to Melania.]
posted by LobsterMitten at 6:43 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


If NBC is going to pay Billy Bush his full contract amount they should keep him and just give him crap stories to cover that never make it to air. Alternating with him reading on-air apologies for being a rape enabler. Let him quit if he doesn't like it.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 6:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [69 favorites]


I think that's paranoia. When Clinton wins, the Republican establishment will issue public acknowledgment of that fact whether or not Trump does so.

All executive appointments may be too conspiratorial, although I'm not convinced Ryan or McConnell will just return to business as usual if Trump is still out there trying to maintain a shadow government backed by TrumpTV and 80% of the Republican base. But I fully believe that if the Democrats do not take the Senate, Republicans will not allow her to seat any Supreme Court justice for the entirety of her 4 year term. All they have to do is hang on 2 years and they will have the Senate back again, and then it's only 12 months or so until 2020 election time. They can withstand public pressure that long, they have so far in 2016. They've paid no price whatsoever for obstructing Garland.

The entire Republican project for 40 years has focused on maintaining the Court as the ultimate Trump card, so to speak. They saw the power of the Warren Court, and ever since it's been the overriding goal to install a rightwing version that could roll back the entire New Deal and Civil Rights movement which they could never achieve legislatively, and are farther than ever from achieving today. They will NOT allow Hilary to up end the 5-4 balance in their favor, much less install another appointment after that.

There are no more norms, and if Democrats do not hold 50+1 Senate seats and eliminate the judicial filibuster, Republicans will not confirm a SCOTUS seat. That's just the world we live in now.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:45 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Yeah stick Billy Bush in a room and require him to copy the dictionary 8 hours a day. Sadly, that would probably count as a "constructive dismissal". But it would also be hilarious.
posted by Justinian at 6:46 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


There are no more norms, and if Democrats do not hold 50+1 Senate seats and eliminate the judicial filibuster, Republicans will not confirm a SCOTUS seat. That's just the world we live in now.

And I still think you're wrong, and would probably put money on that if I were a betting man. Things can be bad without being that bad.
posted by Justinian at 6:46 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


@SopanDeb Another instance where Trump/Pence aren't on same page. Pence said this week Trump would immediately rip up Iran deal. Not what he says here

Transcript from Trump's Charlotte rally:
We won't be giving $150 billion to a terrorist state. We'll be looking at that deal so close inside out and backwards. And if it's not--if they are not living up. I mean the hardest part for me is we're giving them so much money already. I would have liked it so much more before we gave them all that money.

But if they don't honor that deal to every single little line, every single little word, we're going to rip the sucker up so much your head will spin. Your head will spin. It's one of the most incompetent deals I've ever seen in my life. I'm not talking about nation to nation. Secretary Kerry never stood up and said we'll be walking.
First of all I would be willing to bet he has no idea what the deal with Iran consists of and second of all I would be willing to bet he still thinks that the money that was handed over came from U.S. taxpayers. Finally, how do you rip up a contract so hard it makes your head spin? I can tell you one thing that makes my head spin-- trying to figure out the nonsense that spews from his addled brain.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


So I am less freaked out about the outcome of the election than I was last month, when polls were close. I still find myself irrationally anxious about black swan type events; hackers (supported by the Russian government or not), something actually being revealing and damaging in an e-mail dump (I don't think any of the existing stuff has been too too surprising, but eggs on twitter are so confident and share scary screenshots of 4-chan-y looking message that seem confident that they have something damaging). I realize those are probably irrational fears, but it scares me anyway. And the escalation of hateful rhetoric from Trump about women, religious and ethnic minorities has a non-trivial chance of getting more people hurt and seems enormously damanging to the national fabric.

So like, I'm pretty sure Hillary will receive the most votes and win the election but I am worried about payoffs in extremely bad states of the world and what damage Trump does to the country while losing.

This sucks.
posted by dismas at 6:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Any Republicans who back up Dishonest Don in his "the election was stolen" would necessarily end up on Team Trump in the post-election "Battle for the Soul of the Party"* Purely a position for "Dead Enders".

* I know, it's a silly thing to call it since the Republican Party sold its soul a LONG time ago.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:50 PM on October 14, 2016


Just FYI I'm making risotto for dinner tonight pretty much entirely because of this thread

First we were all craving tacos, then we were cramming skittles (in my case M&Ms which look close enough) into our mouths and now risotto. Will no one think of our waistlines?!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


And popcorn! I forgot the popcorn!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:53 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Any Republicans who back up Dishonest Don in his "the election was stolen" would necessarily end up on Team Trump in the post-election "Battle for the Soul of the Party"* Purely a position for "Dead Enders".

Up until he tries again in 2020.
posted by Talez at 6:53 PM on October 14, 2016


Trump denied these claims in his statement and said Zervos had contacted him as recently as April.

"To be clear, I never met her at a hotel or greeted her inappropriately a decade ago. That is not who I am as a person, and it is not how I've conducted my life."


This is not MetaFilter. These are not words in a sentence, and you lack the ability to read. Lorem ipsum dolor sit. Fharfegnügen.
posted by petebest at 6:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


It's the latest voter suppression tactic, you can't go vote if your pants don't fit!
posted by ghost phoneme at 6:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Up until he tries again in 2020.

Good god. I am almost 100% certain that I couldn't go through all this twice in one lifetime.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:55 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Donald Trump is setting the stage to never concede the 2016 election


I've said it before, but I think he'll quietly concede, and the reason is this; there's really not any reason to not arrest him if he keeps throwing a fit after the election. It's clearly not going to be close, and the results should agree with the election polls. The vast majority of people will understand he's been clearly defeated and there's no way it was stolen. Most of his base will desert him (as a 'strongman' candidate, they will consider him weak and a failure for losing and will grow contempt for him almost instantly). The conspiracy theorists and neo-nazis that make up the core of his unshakable base will be incited, but they won't really be much more incited if he's arrested than if he loudly crows about the election being stolen either.

I think the powers that be are going to offer him the carrot of ignoring all of his campaign misconduct and perhaps his charity crimes if he concedes, or at least shuts up. And they'll also quietly inform him that his arrest-proof status went away when he lost the election and they'll come after him if he doesn't. And I think he'll take the offer.
posted by Mitrovarr at 6:57 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


It's the latest voter suppression tactic, you can't go vote if your pants don't fit!

LOL I have sweatpants!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:57 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


He won't make a concession speech. Even dragged to the podium, whatever he says, and people will call it a 'concession speech', will be more accurately described as a 'fuck you all, you get what you deserve speech'. Immediately followed by a twitstorm where he blames everyone but himself.
posted by adept256 at 6:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


I totally stole that for my Facebook feed, MoonOrb.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:00 PM on October 14, 2016


So, someone might have said this, but what could Trump do to loose massive support? Easy, video comming to light of him "grabbing the pussy" and then the woman beating the ever loving shit out of him. All those alphas who are following him because he's the big alpha* would be devastated.

Look for a period where he disappeared for a week or so to let the bruises fade.

*Is there an agreed on way to spell out
a Kif style sigh?
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 7:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Secret Life of Gravy: and guacamole! We've got an Election Day menu starting to come together here.
posted by erisfree at 7:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


"Trump to address nation in ‘more personal way’"

I'm interpreting this to mean he's going to passive-aggressively threaten to doxx us all.
posted by 23skidoo at 7:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


But if he succeeds at punishing the "Traitors To Trump", he will certainly deliver the Senate to the Democrats and maybe the Congress and some state houses too. Of course, "Trump succeeds" is a situation that has rarely ever happened, but if it did, mastery over a mostly-crippled Republican Party would be the most Pyrrhic of victories with a Consolation Prize worse than a case of Turtle Wax.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:07 PM on October 14, 2016


Does anyone else feel like the last debate might cause actual psychological trauma to the audience? I'm being completely serious.
posted by Justinian at 7:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


The five pounds of anxiety weight I've put on since July attest that this election stress eating struggle is real.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:10 PM on October 14, 2016 [23 favorites]


NoVa is heavily D DC suburbs, right?

Right. And even the republicans here don't care much for Trump, NoVa went Rubio in the primary.
Anecdotal, but the only NoVa people I heard voting for Rubio (or other non-Trumpsters) during the primaries were Dems who crossed over to try to ditch Trump. It was a painful, painful day on FB, listening to all the crossover voters try to stomp out evil.
posted by instamatic at 7:10 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Does anyone else feel like the last debate might cause actual psychological trauma to the audience?

The second debate certainly did.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


Does anyone else feel like the last debate might cause actual psychological trauma to the audience?

You mean America? Yeah probably
posted by theodolite at 7:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


The greatest tactic for vaccination against a 2020 Trump presidential run will be to address the 2016 run loser Donald J. Trump (a loser) as "loser" as often and in as many venues as possible. Loser Trump, who lost like a loser who loses. Loserrrrrrrr.

His loser head will explode in fury like a rotten pumpkin. (A pumpkin that lost the County Fair pumpkin contest, loser.)
posted by nicebookrack at 7:12 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


Does anyone else feel like the last debate might cause actual psychological trauma to the audience? I'm being completely serious.

Yeah, and that's why I'm skipping it. Watching Trump is manifestly bad for me, so unless someone can spot me a xanax or ativan or something, I'm out.
posted by yasaman at 7:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Does anyone else feel like the last debate might cause actual psychological trauma to the audience?

At this point it's a question of how deep the scars will be.
posted by dis_integration at 7:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Donald Trump is setting the stage to never concede the 2016 election

I know of a big organization near me that'll be doing a lock-down drill on the day after Election Day, and I can understand if people took the day off because that would feel just a little too on-the-nose.

Heck, I have extra vacation days to burn, and being at home on Nov. 8 & 9 is becoming awfully attractive when I think about getting to take my youngest daughter with me to vote, or about angry people waking up angry on Nov. 9 about not getting their way.

Being scared of my neighbors sucks.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:16 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


Wow, have you guys seen this? Is this really the state of the Trump campaign's internal polling analysis?
posted by peacheater at 7:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [29 favorites]


Anecdotal, but the only NoVa people I heard voting for Rubio (or other non-Trumpsters) during the primaries were Dems who crossed over to try to ditch Trump. It was a painful, painful day on FB, listening to all the crossover voters try to stomp out evil.

He won 32% of VA, but 39 in Fairfax, 46 in Arlington and 49 in Alexandria. Trump took only 25, 16 and 18 in Nova counties. It was a lot more than crossover trolling, because while VA does have open primaries, you can only vote in one or the other, and Bernie-Hilary was still in full swing on Super Tuesday.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


peacheater: i *think* that's just some guy. If it's not, good fucking luck. technical analysis doesn't work on wall street, and it certainly ain't gonna work with a poll that swings eight points whenever one guy in Illinois responds or not.

Seeing the responses to that was what prompted my minor freakout above, honestly, because the people who aren't making fun of him seem really earnest in a way that scares me a little (given what they're earnest about).
posted by dismas at 7:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


The full context of Trump's "addressing America in a more personal way" sounds almost like he's about to drop Trump TV on us.
posted by gucci mane at 7:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Does anyone else feel like the last debate might cause actual psychological trauma to the audience?

I have noticed one change in myself that I don't like much, particularly because it's so childish and trivial. We all know people with a whistle when they speak, or lisp, or whatever else. That's not something that needs forgiveness. You can love them anyhow and you're sort of a jerk for thinking it's annoying.

The sniffing is annoying to me. SNIFF. Urghh.

Also, do you know how you sometimes go to the bathroom in the morning and your hair is just amazing. It looks so gnarly and feral you sort of wish it would stay that way. Just for halloween. But then of course you set it straight. Melania sees Donald's bed-hair everyday before he does whatever it is he does to it. The life of that woman.

I know these are petty and superficial things and there is so much more at stake! And perhaps that's why, I can't cope with the bigotry, I can only focus the inconsequential.

posted by adept256 at 7:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Geez, CIA. What about the element of surprise?

Well, at least they still have fear and ruthless efficiency.
posted by rokusan at 7:20 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


Some recommended viewing for this election - both films have Donald Trump in them.

Ken Burns: The Central Park Five (2013), free if you have Amazon Prime.
“The Central Park Five,” directed by Ken Burns, is a chilling documentary about the injustice that occurred within the New York Court system in late 1980s, early ‘90s. Amidst an air of racial tension and gross class divides, five young teenagers (aged 14-16) were accused, tried and convicted of the rape and assault of a female jogger. Police officers and the justice system committed the crime of coercing impressionable teens to admit to a crime they didn’t have any part in, offering a way out if they simply pointed the finger at the other “offenders.” Eloquently put by Jim Dwyer, a New York Post contributor who was covering the case at the time, detectives “climbed the ladder of facts,” putting together falsified confessionals full of inconsistencies within the details of separate confessionals on who did what. Media sensationalism, as well as the quantity of coverage in this particular case, is due to the interracial nature of the crime. The media was far from impartial, and they portrayed the boys as poster children of a movement called “wilding” in which large groups of teens get together to assault others and cause mischief. The documentary suggests that, with no DNA evidence and stories that lacked consistency, a group of five teens were sentenced for a crime they had no part in largely so NYPD detectives could pat themselves on the back for a job well done, and get to be heroes in the public eye."
Ava Duvernay: 13th (2016), Netflix.
"[Duvernay's] piece about the long — yet still direct — link between the ending of slavery and the explosion of the prison- industrial complex, particularly when it comes to imprisoning African-American men. It's an extraordinary film, quiet and deliberate in its condemnation of a system of oppression that has simply changed its means but never its ends."
posted by cashman at 7:21 PM on October 14, 2016 [39 favorites]


Melania sees Donald's bed-hair everyday before he does whatever it is he does to it. The life of that woman.

I would not be surprised at all if they kept separate bedrooms.
posted by nathan_teske at 7:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


Geez, CIA. What about the element of surprise?

Well, at least they still have fear and ruthless efficiency.


If they've released info about something they're going to do then there is a strategic reason for doing so.
posted by Jalliah at 7:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Wow, have you guys seen this? Is this really the state of the Trump campaign's internal polling analysis?

General Flynn let them post that on Twitter?

What in the fucking fuck?

Did they think liberals would wet the bed at their unreality and stay home?
posted by Talez at 7:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Did they think liberals would wet the bed at their unreality and stay home?

I can't vote but I can't understand what they're nattering about anyways except there are some lines and numbers on a piece of paper and the guy says "Winning!"
So no wetting the bed here.
posted by Jalliah at 7:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Is this really the state of the Trump campaign's internal polling analysis?

Uhh...are they applying technical analysis to the LA tracking poll?
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


That's some crazed unscewing of the LAT/USC public poll - which is a tracking poll with funky methodology and has been several points +Trump the entire election until like just this week.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Wow, have you guys seen this? Is this really the state of the Trump campaign's internal polling analysis?

I feel dumber for having seen that. It seems clearly fake.
posted by Justinian at 7:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Uhh...are they applying technical analysis to the LA tracking poll?

I'm gathering that's messed up and likely why it is making little sense to me?
posted by Jalliah at 7:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Woah. Republican Women Blast Trump For Mocking Accusers’ Looks, including this from Dana Perino (former Bush Press Secretary):
On Fox News Friday afternoon, Dana Perino tore into high-profile conservatives defending Trump, like Ben Carson and Jeff Sessions. “You know who you are,” she said, prompting some of her co-hosts to joke that her mic might get cut.

“Yeah,” Perino snapped, “because women should be seen and not heard, apparently. After 20 years of defending these guys, [I’m] done.”
Video. h/t @mckaycoppins
posted by zachlipton at 7:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [80 favorites]


"She is NOT winning right now, in spite of the overwhelming media blitzkrieg saying that she is..."

I mean, at this point, even Baghdad Bob is like "my friend, seriously, you must put down the pipe for a moment."
posted by tonycpsu at 7:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [37 favorites]


Is this really the state of the Trump campaign's internal polling analysis?

Uhh...are they applying technical analysis to the LA tracking poll?


It looks to me like their technical analysis budget allows for a ruler and a blue Bic. Good.
posted by Leslie Knope at 7:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [30 favorites]


It looks to me like their technical analysis budget allows for a ruler and a blue Bic. Good.
posted by Leslie Knope at 7:30 PM on October 14 [3 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]


Budget by... Ron Swanson?
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 7:32 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


Ava Duvernay: 13th (2016), Netflix.

Just a warning, this one made me cry, a lot.
posted by dis_integration at 7:32 PM on October 14, 2016


Who needs... what do they use for this stuff? SPSS? R? I'm math dumb but I'm pretty sure an old bar coaster for a straight edge and a pen from under your couch cushions is not the state of the art.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Budget by... Ron Swanson?

Ron Swanson is known to spend money on the highest quality tools to accomplish a job with pride.

This is just masturbation. In the sense that they're just fucking themselves.
posted by Talez at 7:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


I think if they used Excel to do that hack job, Clippy would pop up and say "It looks like you're trying to unskew the polls, would you like me to help you with that?"
posted by tonycpsu at 7:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [21 favorites]


Yay Dana Perino!I bet it stunk down there!
posted by vrakatar at 7:35 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Him never conceeding also gives Congressional Republicans the excuse they didn't even need to deny Hilary her SCOTUS appointment, or any judicial or executive appointments at all.

I think Hillary is much more likely to play hardball than Obama with Congress, and if she gets a majority in both houses, I think she's gonna know that she's got 2 years to do everything. They've been stonewalling for 8 years, and, for good or ill, I think there's gonna be payback.
posted by tclark at 7:35 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


The good news is that whoever did that analysis, whether they have anything to do with the campaign or are just some guy on the internet, they almost certainly lose a ton of money trying to day trade with the exact same techniques.
posted by zachlipton at 7:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]




I'm gathering that's messed up and likely why it is making little sense to me?

The NYT's Nate Cohn did an unskew of LAT/USC based upon the known data about a 19-year-old black Trump supporter in Illinois. Here's Cohn on the new polling memo.
posted by holgate at 7:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Wow, have you guys seen this? Is this really the state of the Trump campaign's internal polling analysis?

Is it from Doctor Strangelove or something?
posted by Artw at 7:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I assume the CIA leak is about telling the Russians what we already have hacked and could release and not some hypothetical future hacking operation. The "range of options" is code for "back off and we will go easy".
posted by humanfont at 7:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Mefi's favorite cartoonist seems a little pouty [archive.org link]
posted by ctmf at 7:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


I think if they used Excel to do that hack job, Clippy would pop up and say "It looks like you're trying to unskew the polls, would you like me to help you with that?"

I think you may have just outed one of Donald's chief advisers.
posted by adept256 at 7:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [21 favorites]


Oh my god its real. This is the single greatest boost to my confidence of the whole campaign. If they believe that crap they are stupider than a bag of hammers.
posted by Justinian at 7:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [18 favorites]


I feel dumber for having seen that. It seems clearly fake.

Doesn't have to look real. Has to lay the groundwork to their supporters that they have this in the bag, so when he loses they can cry fraud.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm gathering that's messed up and likely why it is making little sense to me?

Technical analysis is somewhere between reading goat entrails to tell the future and counting cards in blackjack. Some people make a fuckload of money doing it, but there's also no emprical evidence it exists, or works better than a randomly distributed sample.

Trying to apply technical analysis methods, which are totally untested and aren't even relevant to political polling, a totally separate field of statistics than financial markets, to the one poll every serious pollster agrees has maybe the stupidest methodology ever devised is...wow. I'm struggling to come up with a comparison, but, "trying to build a submarine out of butter" is about right.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


Oh, I reacted without seeing that Silver was trolling. You people. You didnt REAL or FAKE.
posted by Justinian at 7:40 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


I'm gathering that's messed up and likely why it is making little sense to me?

It's dumb. But dumb in an interesting way. "technical analysis" is a term of art for securities trading strategies that basically rely on actively managing a financial portfolio by examining particular assets and trying to make trades on the basis of momentum and eyeballing different shapes of where the price has been lately. So the idea is that usually there's a floor or a ceiling or both and if it gets breached that matters for whether you should buy or sell. There's more complicated strategies that really seem like they're based on aphorisms more than anything else. But the thing is that it basically doesn't work, either across assets or in the long run (in the sense that you would make more money by investing in an index fund), and it's an easy way to handwave your way into losing your shirt. (This all stands in contrast to some version of the efficient markets hypothesis, incidentally, the simplest version of which argues these movements are unpredictable in a statistical sense).

So it looks like whoever made those things is trying to do something similar by drawing lines on a chart. Which is a bad idea when it's a stock price, and even dumber when, as I said, it's the worst tracking poll currently being conducted.
posted by dismas at 7:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


Technical analysis is basically cargo cult voodoo for the stock market.
posted by Justinian at 7:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


Sign report from the outskirts of a suburb in Houston- Previously, there were three Trump signs in my neighborhood, but now all have disapeared. 1 car has a Hillary bumper sticker- but to offset that, a truck outside has a Trump sticker and a stuffed monkey hanging from a noose from his cab.

So.
posted by Torosaurus at 7:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


And yes, they're doing technical analysis on it, which would be great if polling were based upon the same thing as share prices, particularly the algos that drive high-frequency trading.

lol amateurs amateurs
posted by holgate at 7:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I choose to believe its real. Trump's razor!
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Even if technical analysis worked, that's not how it would work.
posted by condour75 at 7:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [21 favorites]


"PSA: Could someone please hire me for a new job soon so I can stop refreshing these threads + twitter constantly all day? Thanks."

Heh. Because I'm doing freelance and job hunting, I have to have a blocker on during work hours otherwise… "Hey, how'd it get so dark out?"
posted by klangklangston at 7:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


And either this is a) bullshit prolefeed or b) Gen Kelly has somehow been conned by a bullshitter or c) they don't have any actual internal polling of their own.
posted by holgate at 7:45 PM on October 14, 2016


Marlee Matlin and Lil Jon were by the far the two best contestants in their season (Celebrity Apprentice Season 4 / Apprentice Season 11) - they were the first and second runners-up to John Rich from country duo Big & Rich. Lil Jon's firing was total and complete bullshit* - Donald fired him because Lil Jon said he was surprised he'd made it so far (shocking after being called "Uncle Tom" all season!!!), and Donald disapproved of this lack of self-puffery. Marlee loses in the finale when, I quote from Wikipedia, "After announcing that he would "do something different", Trump simply announced John Rich as the winner of The Celebrity Apprentice 2011."

Looking back at this season, Mark McGrath was on it - which explains the bizarre Donald Trump Jr. tweet dating from around this time that he tried to delete today. This is also the season in which Donald fired Gary Busey after the Omaha Steaks task, which President Obama used as a joke at the White House Correspondents' Dinner; and the season in which an episode was pre-empted by the announcement of Osama bin Laden's death. Also part of this season: Donald fired Star Jones because she criticized Meatloaf for calling her "sweetie" even though Meatloaf had been completely emotionally unhinged throughout the entire season; John Rich almost breaks down in tears after Gary Busey calls him "boy"; and Meatloaf flips out on Gary Busey over art supplies.

Really, so much about Donald and the Trump con and the Trump family and the dynamic of this race and of race and sex in the U.S. is visible in The Apprentice, and this season specifically.

*ok I realize I'm talking about The Apprentice, all of which is total and complete bullshit, but whatever
posted by sallybrown at 7:46 PM on October 14, 2016 [18 favorites]


The "analysis" is propaganda. It's not for us or undecideds. Well, maybe partly for the dumb undecideds. But it's for their support base. It's laying the argument for their future accusations of fraud costing them the election. You gotta have at least a fig leaf of evidence for a conspiracy theory if you're going to whip up a mob.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


"[Couple deleted. Let's not go in the direction of joking about something bad happening to Melania.]"

She's already married to Donald Trump — we should be watching her blinks for Morse code rescue pleas.
posted by klangklangston at 7:50 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


This recent phase of the election is interesting in the way it seems to have woken the majority up to the existence of gender theory (I'd credit it with race theory, too, except that BLM and the police killings had a long head start). I keep one foot solidly in traditional media - newspapers, NPR shows - and one online, and I've noticed, for the first time, the gatekeepers in mass journalism being exposed to and using phrases like rape culture and microaggression and gaslighting (just today, there was a long and very thorough and cogent explanation of the term gaslighting on Marketplace). It gave me pause to realize the knock-down drag-outs on MeFi over Shroedinger's rapist and emotional labor and so on had enough of an effect that this stuff is old news to many of us, but just breaking into the awareness of the majority of the mass media audience.

As far as the groping allegations, I'll make one observation. When Bill Cosby's accusers started to go on record, they drew each other out, one by one, because they recognized the similarity of the method. It's at least worth noting that Trump's accusers also describe exactly the same MO - a sort of cornering, then a "groping" with his hands, in at least two cases up their skirts. Predators really do seem to have favored methods, and the similarity of the stories is something that disbelievers should be alert to.

Anyway, yeah, here we are. The election of our first black president surfaced the nation's hidden, unspoken, and latent racism, and the potential election of our first woman - hell, even her having the temerity to run at all - surfaces the nation's deeply embedded sexism and misogyny.
posted by Miko at 7:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [63 favorites]


I'm skipping way to the end of the thread to tell you all that -- squee! -- I saw Hillary Clinton in real life today! She was in Seattle for a campaign event. I was wrangling part of the entrance line. There was strong security and no umbrellas allowed inside on one of the rainiest days ever (there's a big storm coming in). I got to see her speak after some short speeches, including one by the husband of a friend. He is the child of immigrants and in pre-school didn't speak English and was very distraught. But his teacher learned some of his language from his parents to help him adjust and eventually he started being more comfortable and learning. The program he was in? Head Start, just the kind of program Clinton champions. Then later I went to the campaign office where we were having a special phone bank (I mostly had more data to enter!) and guess who showed up there? Senator Murray, Governor Inslee and Hillary Clinton herself! I didn't get to talk to her (everyone crowded around after her speech and she had to leave quickly!) but it was really great to see her in person and here her repeat her positive vision for the country.

I fear I might be annoying my friends because whenever I talk about the election or mention volunteering I suggest events for them, especially after they learn what I was up to on a day like today. :) Now I'm going to back to entering call results (if I can resist reading the brand new thread).
posted by R343L at 7:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [82 favorites]


Marlee loses in the finale when, I quote from Wikipedia, "After announcing that he would "do something different", Trump simply announced John Rich as the winner of The Celebrity Apprentice 2011."


"During the taping of the show, Trump would often scribble down notes while sitting at the table of “the boardroom”—the show’s primary set. A person familiar with the notes who helped clean up after tapings said that on one of the pieces of paper, Trump wrote: “Marlee, is she retarded??”
posted by theodolite at 7:53 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Sometimes I forget that the Republican nominee for President had his own two-hour TV show about himself yelling at B-list celebrities. It was extremely popular and ran for fourteen seasons
posted by theodolite at 7:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [16 favorites]


I figured the contents of anything Trump wrote on would resemble the pad Jackie Treehorn was doodling on in The Big Lebowski.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [25 favorites]


Now he's angry because people in one part of the hall can't hear. Upset about the speakers. "Now we don't have to pay for this, and now we don't have to pay for that. Man. Who the hell runs this place?

This Trump fellow is certainly gracious and calm under such intense pressure. When things go wrong he reacts with the greatest character and wisdom.

Wondering how many in his audience are contractors...

I too find if very difficult to push basic logic and reason from my brain in reacting to the spittle shit that spews from Trump's mouth but it really has no place for many of his supporters.

The Republicans have been using horseshit for ink instead of ink for ink for years. They've kept using the digital equivalent for the age of the Internet and partisan "news" channels.

I'm sure they thought Trump was going to be more Tommy Shanks than Trump.

Okay, you know in that Star Trek movie where Spock's brother was going around mind-melding with people to find out what their deepest trauma was so he coulld get them to unburden themselves and heal or something?

You're remembering way more about that film than I am.

As god is my witness

I'm pretty sure your witness is also Trump's next witness to event(s) x not happening.

Trump to address nation in ‘more personal way’

I'm going to increase personalness. No one will be strangers. We're going to know everything about you, OK.
posted by juiceCake at 7:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]




Also, this morning I realised oh yes, that was sexual harassment and assault about multiple incidents. I've experienced more violent sexual abuse so reading the Trump accusations felt puzzling to me because -he kissed them? That was it? Ok, it was wrong, but it feels emotionally like people are yelling about someone jaywalking. Then I thought how deeply upset I'd be if someone did that to one of my friends, and my brain went ohhhh.

I bet there are a lot of women (and some men) Trump voters thinking "I'm fine about it, it didn't hurt me, why is everyone making such a big deal over this?" Because the alternative is realising again that you have to rewrite your personal history with yet-another-that-was-abuse memory. Involving people you liked and probably still live with.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 8:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [60 favorites]


An interesting thought occurred to me; how hard did the Russian cyberattack team actually try? Are we seeing their peewee league or is this all they've got?

I have to believe that the US counter information warfare corps have developed effective countermeasures (and policy recommendations) to prevent recurrence of successful attacks. The private sector does this as a matter of course.

Like, are the intrusions/"hacks" just a "kiddie script" (yeah, showing my age/ignorance) or are they actually sophisticated intrusion operations?
posted by porpoise at 8:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh my, humanfont. Kellyanne Conway, gaslighter for hire, may be burning out right before our eyes. She almost broke character there, and she talks about Trump as if he were a recalcitrant toddler. Are we, just maybe, about to learn what she really thinks?

I will never buy her inevitable tell-all book, because she is a garbage human being, but I may pirate it.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


The Trump campaign just released a statement from Summer Zervos's cousin, John Barry, accusing her of lying about her sexual assault allegation because "I think Summer wishes she could still be on reality TV." (twitter)
posted by sallybrown at 8:02 PM on October 14, 2016


Just thought of a question -- how long do NDAs last? Until Trump's death? Like, on the day Trump dies, are we going to be hit all at once with a tidal wave of people telling their stories about how shitty he was? Or are NDAs forever?
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Wow, John Barry sounds like a real piece of shit.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 8:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]


Trump's statistical analyst knows what he's doing. If he provides The Boss with any data he doesn't like, he won't get paid. I'm sure he's making sure he gets his final check on November 7th and cashing it IMMEDIATELY.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


So the Trump campaign has just released a statement from Summer Zervos's cousin, who happens to be named "John Barry." Sounds a lot like John Barron.
posted by stolyarova at 8:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [15 favorites]


Also via Twitter, NBC has benched its Trump-inspired Law & Order: SVU episode until after the election. Cowards.
posted by sallybrown at 8:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


Zhirinovsky is constantly saying the most wackadoodle shit

He is the leader of the third largest political party in Russia, and was given a medal by Putin himself earlier this year.

Yes, he believes Russia owns Alaska and the entire Pacific Northwest. Yes he believes America is the New Carthage to Russia's Rome. Yes, he believes all nations with Orthodox Christians need to be invaded and made part of the Russian Federation.

He is the leader of the third largest political party in Russia, and was given a medal by Putin himself earlier this year. People believe his shit, even at the highest levels of Russian government.

He was allowed to say this.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


If he provides The Boss with any data he doesn't like, he won't get paid.

Make "Fixed That For You" Great Again.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:05 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


are the intrusions/"hacks" just a "kiddie script"

They're spear-phishing built upon social engineering. And spear-phishing has got very good over the last couple of years.
posted by holgate at 8:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Raise your hand if you too happen to have a right-wing cousin who would probably take Trump's side against yours in the national media
posted by Countess Elena at 8:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [116 favorites]


And I believe that the doxxing / smearing has been outsourced to Rage Furby Johnson and Pax Dickinson. Let's see if they show up in the FEC reports.
posted by holgate at 8:07 PM on October 14, 2016


An interesting thought occurred to me; how hard did the Russian cyberattack team actually try? Are we seeing their peewee league or is this all they've got?

Podesta is a private citizen, using a gmail address. They didn't try hard, and Podesta probably could've prevented the whole thing by turning on two-factor. This isn't like they hacked the Joint Chiefs.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


I will never buy her inevitable tell-all book

She's probably NDA'd.

how long do NDAs last? Until Trump's death?

Until he's broke. Which may be sooner than you think but not as soon as we hope.
posted by holgate at 8:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


A right-wing MALE cousin. Who wants to bet we will NEVER see a woman contradicting any of Trump's victims' claims?

And I thought Lou Dobbs was already at work on the doxxing.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


From John Barry's statement:
Summer would also talk about how kind and caring Mr. Trump was on the show, and how he would even visit children in hospitals without telling the press.
Trump would visit children in hospitals? With the intent of making them feel better? Like, a sick kid is going to be sad in a hospital, see Donald Trump, the real estate guy who fires B and C-list celebrities on TV, and then be not as sad? I'm not really understanding how this would in any way make sick kids feel better. Nor has Fahrenthold reported on donations Trump made to pediatric hospitals or anything of that sort.

He also, at no time, says anything to refute the allegations his cousin made.
posted by zachlipton at 8:10 PM on October 14, 2016 [21 favorites]


Lil Jon speaks out (twitter):
"When this 'Uncle Tom' incident happened on Celebrity Apprentice in the boardroom several of my castmates and I addressed Mr. Trump immediately when we heard the comment. I can't say if he knew what he was actually saying or not, but he did stop using that term once we explained it's offensiveness.

I also want to be clear that I don't agree with many of the statements Mr. Trump has said during his current run for President."
If you watch the clip I linked to above about John Rich accusing Gary Busey of calling him "boy," there's a weird scene in the boardroom where Donald questions why Rich is so upset, and then says the only person who would be more upset by that is Lil Jon, looking to Lil Jon for approval as if saying "see, don't I get it?," which Lil Jon confirms. I wonder if that was a callback to the earlier-in-the-season discussion around why "Uncle Tom" was hurtful...
posted by sallybrown at 8:11 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Wow, John Barry sounds like a real piece of shit.

Oh, I thought you said John Barron.
posted by petebest at 8:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


An interesting thought occurred to me; how hard did the Russian cyberattack team actually try? Are we seeing their peewee league or is this all they've got?

I have to believe that the US counter information warfare corps have developed effective countermeasures (and policy recommendations) to prevent recurrence of successful attacks. The private sector does this as a matter of course.

Like, are the intrusions/"hacks" just a "kiddie script" (yeah, showing my age/ignorance) or are they actually sophisticated intrusion operations?


These actors are both known, among other names, as APTX; APT stands for Advanced Persistent Threat. If you read the CrowdStrike analysis, they were in the DNC's systems for a year before they were detected. I'm not saying they're the best of the best, but they're far above script kiddies. Both government and private sector have preventative measures, but at the account level in consumer systems that protection generally only applies if the user opts into the high-security features (two-factor, as T.D. Strange points out).
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 8:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]


From the Dep't of Trump pissing off small constituencies of the U.S. electorate:

Donald Trump wrongly maligns U.S. chess prowess
:
Trump went on to say that with multilateral pacts like the TPP, "you can't terminate -- there's too many people, you go crazy. It's like you have to be a grand chess master. And we don't have any of them." (You can see it here, around the 19:45 mark.)

Trump’s statement sounded wrong to us. The Trump campaign did not respond to an inquiry, but as it turns out, it is wrong. In fact, the comment provoked anger and ridicule within the chess community, which knows that the United States is currently on a roll in international competition.

It’s literally wrong that "we don’t have any" chess grandmasters. That’s the correct term, by the way, not "grand chess masters." Currently, the United States has 90 grandmasters, counting both men and women, which is enough to rank third-highest in the world.
Guess who has the most grandmasters in the world?

See also: Garry Kasparov tweeted today: "Trump is a moral and political failure, a suicide bomber trying to take the American political system down with him. Don’t let him."
posted by sallybrown at 8:16 PM on October 14, 2016 [36 favorites]


During the third debate, with the whole world watching, the Triffids will release a snow across the TV screens blinding us all and then Trump will begin to repeat Pontypool type words, which were never very different from his usual word salad.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


generally only if the user opts into the high-security features (two-factor, as T.D. Strange points out).

SwiftOnSecurity had some good correspondence yesterday from a tech person for a major elected official, who said that the legally-mandated distinction between public office activity and private campaign activity was the biggest hurdle for infosec people.
posted by holgate at 8:21 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


As of today, 1,175,620 people have voted in the election.
posted by sallybrown at 8:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [33 favorites]


Does anyone else feel like the last debate might cause actual psychological trauma to the audience?


Psychological, spiritual, dimensional.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


are the intrusions/"hacks" just a "kiddie script"
>They're spear-phishing built upon social engineering. holgate
Then make being trained in information defense proficiencies be part of retaining one's job (as a public servant). Those would have to be maintained as standards change, like any other licensed profession.

Then offer all of the information defense classes available to the public; fund translators for young adults, for children, for the elderly, for the tech resistant, and all in different languages.
posted by porpoise at 8:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


LePage says 2 leaders of effort to raise Maine’s minimum wage should be jailed

Jesus Fucking Christ. American political discourse just keeps getting dumber. Thanks a fucking lot you human cheeto.
posted by Talez at 8:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [52 favorites]


Though another barrier is that elected officials and campaign higher-ups are generally older and just want the digital shit to work which, from experience, opens up security holes. (Mundane things like trying to set up SSL email or explaining why every login needs to be secure or why you can't use the same password in multiple services or why you might need a VPN switched on all the time and why public wifi is dangerous. I saw that John Podesta used the wifi on the bus he took from NYC to DC and that has my infosec hackles up.)

The top-tier campaign pros seem to have gravitated over to end-to-end secure services like Telegram.
posted by holgate at 8:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


We have to be tough enough to endure our political process. Period. There have been some really difficult eras in the story of this nation. So, the security has to be excellent at this event. The building has to be secure, every square inch, the podiums, everything. The rules of engagement should be in place, and I hope the moderation is good. I hope the afterwards scene is well guarded, all the way out the door, all the exit doors where someone could get in, and I hope we can all watch, and not be cowed by the situation.
posted by Oyéah at 8:30 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


An interesting thought occurred to me; how hard did the Russian cyberattack team actually try? Are we seeing their peewee league or is this all they've got?
Given that Podesta's twitter was hacked yesterday, I strongly suspect that he is vulnerable to Nigerian Princes and sincere concern about security from Google's tech support team, where they no doubt wanted some helpful information.
posted by xyzzy at 8:31 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Loved Takei's recent takedown of Trump's I consider myself, in a certain way, to be a blue-collar worker

Although I guess Trump could be considered to work with his hands... in a frottage industry.
posted by BrotherCaine at 8:35 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


User name: JPodesta1
Password: podesta1
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:35 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Then make being trained in information defense proficiencies be part of retaining one's job

Follow SwiftOnSecurity. Whoever Tay might be, they are talking about this stuff: it's a problem of authentication, not infrastructure hardness.
posted by holgate at 8:36 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Podesta1!

Humans are the biggest baxkdoor into computer systems.
posted by tilde at 8:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Then make being trained in information defense proficiencies be part of retaining one's job (as a public servant).
Podesta is currently a private citizen working for a political campaign. This is just straight up tech illiteracy that kajillions of Americans are vulnerable to. Encryption + bio authentication (thumb, eyeball) are the best solutions for these types of people, imho.
posted by xyzzy at 8:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


> The Trump campaign just released a statement from Summer Zervos's cousin, John Barry, accusing her of lying about her sexual assault allegation because "I think Summer wishes she could still be on reality TV."

We the undersigned are completely shocked and horrified by the allegations against Mr. Trump. The women accusing Donald J. Trump of sexual assault are terrible. Everything about Mr. Trump is amazing and positive and they are clearly just fame-hungry attention dogs who would do anything just to have themselves talked about on television. Underline anything in that sentence, Meredith, maybe twice. Also, Mr. Trump's accusers are ugly and he wouldn't want to have anything to do with them anyway, and if they were hot, which they're not, he could get them because that's just how amazing and good he is. In short, Mr. Trump is the best person who has ever lived and then more like that, then make up some names.

Signed,

Mary St. Stephens • Johnny Kelly • Barron V. Iverson • D. J. J. Johns • Anne Johns • Melanie Meredith St. Stephens • Kellyanne Kelly • Mary St. Stephens • Johnny Iverson • Melanie Barron-O'Kelly • Eric J. Barry • Steven Kelly • Johnny-John Stevens • Barron D. J. Bannon • Barry Iverson • D. J. Stevens • Baron Johns • Baron Barry Kelly • Barron B. Iverson • Melanie Stevens • Ivan Barron • Steven Ericson • Baron Von Iverson • J. Barry • Mary Barry • D. B. Barron • Barron Johnson • Bannon O'Baron • Steven Steven Stephens • John Melanie Barron • Baron Barry Barron of Yorkshire • Stephen Iverson • Johnny Steve Barron • Kellyanne Stephens • DJ Mary Iverson • Mary John • John Mary • Marion Barry • Barryanne Iverson-Stevens
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [65 favorites]


During the third debate, with the whole world watching, the Triffids will release a snow across the TV screens blinding us all and then Trump will begin to repeat Pontypool type words, which were never very different from his usual word salad.

Whew.

Good thing we have voiceover enabled on our Apple TV box. If blinded, I know exactly how to switch over to Netflix and can navigate menus chill without being able to see the screen. Mr. Conspiracy will be like "What was that?" I'll just be like "Well, let's put it this way - it's helpful there's a couple of extra white canes in the closet because I need one now."

Dear reader, WE ARE PREPARED.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:46 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Americans are losing faith in democracy — and in each other
When it comes to U.S. democracy, which is closest to your view?

I have never had faith - 6%
I have lost faith - 40%
I have faith - 52%
No answer - 2%

This cynicism is widely shared across the electorate, but significant partisan differences emerge on this question, as on so many others. More than 6 in 10 voters backing Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton express faith in U.S. democracy, compared with just over 4 in 10 of those backing her Republican rival. Most of Trump’s supporters say they’ve lost confidence in the basic mechanism of governance in the United States.
posted by sallybrown at 8:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


elected officials and campaign higher-ups are generally older and just want the digital shit to work which, from experience, opens up security holes

This is some straight up ageist techbro bullshit. *everyone* just wants the digital shit to work, and they are fucking right. Some self-examination is in order, should you care to be reflective on the matter.
posted by mwhybark at 8:51 PM on October 14, 2016 [46 favorites]


Most of Trump’s supporters say they’ve lost confidence in the basic mechanism of governance in the United States.
Maybe their party could try voting on things.
posted by xyzzy at 8:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [55 favorites]


"I'll share my personal experience in case it might encourage anyone to join us. Between my team calls and the ones I made personally before the team was formed, I've made 38 calls. My scripts basically have me asking two questions: 1) Are you voting for Hillary, and 2) if so, would you be interested in volunteering.

Of my 38 calls, only three people have answered the phone. One said he wasn't voting for anyone, and two said they're voting for Hillary. No one wanted to volunteer. Everyone was very nice. The call tool gives you their name and age and so far almost all of my calls have been to older people. You get to choose what state you want to call and the scripts are a little bit different so I actually looked at a few to choose the one I felt most comfortable with. I think they only have you calling people who have voted Democrat in the past, so the chances of getting someone yelling at you are low.
"

You did better than I did in terms of contacts — last Monday, I called almost 100 people to speak to four or so. Three were all strong Clinton supporters; the final was an older Dem guy who replied "The exact opposite" when I asked if we could count on his support. They were Nevada voters, so I'm gonna guess an irreducible Bernie Bro, but who knows.

For almost all of the calls, you're looking to do turnout of your supporters — there's like zero persuasion, except of people who are either true undecided or lean Clinton, and even then it's pretty easy. If someone starts to argue with you, you just get your best phone smile on and thank 'em for their time. It's just a numbers thing — arguing someone into supporting Clinton is going to take more time and predict fewer votes than getting someone who's already on board to make sure to show up. Phone banks are almost always about revving up supporters — there's better ways to make persuasion contacts.
posted by klangklangston at 8:53 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


Most of Trump’s supporters say they’ve lost confidence in the basic mechanism of governance in the United States ...to protect their privilege and punish other people for what they do wrong. (Isn't that the basic mechanism for all good White Males?)
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:57 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Most of Trump’s supporters say they’ve lost confidence in the basic mechanism of governance in the United States.

I've been waiting since the 60s to say this to conservatives: "If you don't like it here, leave."

J/K
posted by NorthernLite at 8:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


Most of Trump’s supporters say they’ve lost confidence in the basic mechanism of governance in the United States.

Maybe their party could try voting on things.


Maybe they have to come to terms with the fact that in their current incarnation they can no longer muster a majority coalition.
posted by tclark at 8:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [9 favorites]


It'd be interesting to ask the US if it had lost faith in the Constitution. Bet that question would get a very different breaokdown.
posted by Devonian at 9:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


This is some straight up ageist techbro bullshit.

Oh, ffs. I've dealt with mumble number of hacks in the past decade, and I know what I've seen. I've done unpaid on-sites to push through upgrades to secure passwords . I've spent multiple days dealing with people who demanded to be able to use [collegefootballteamnickname-birthyear] to log in to their email. I've had to deal with people who refuse to enable SSL. Let's remember that the entire email server thing w/ HRC extended from wanting to use her BlackBerry.

So don't well-actually me on this shit.
posted by holgate at 9:00 PM on October 14, 2016 [26 favorites]




Most of Trump’s supporters say they’ve lost confidence in the basic mechanism of governance in the United States.

Maybe their party could try voting on things.

Maybe they have to come to terms with the fact that in their current incarnation they can no longer muster a majority coalition.


It's quite like when you're playing cards and the sulkiest kid figures out loss is inevitable, so he announces he's bored and doesn't want to play anymore. If he can't win, we all have to lose.
posted by sallybrown at 9:02 PM on October 14, 2016 [19 favorites]


So it turns out I'm going to be an election judge somewhere in Berkeley. What have I got myself in to?
posted by clorox at 9:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]


Some self-examination is in order, should you care to be reflective on the matter.
Because the US Government is supposed to have accountability to tax payers, tech buy-in is very slow moving. That's how the FBI ends up with an ancient computer system not up to the task of handling terror cells in the US on 9/11. It is also how HRC ends up with a private e-mail server. At the time, Blackberries, the tech that the government bought into, could literally not be used to access more than one email account. The answer, obviously, was to throw that tech away to keep people from doing dumb stuff so they could use a single device. But you can't throw away thousands of perfectly good Blackberries in order to make the user experience better because the GAO is looking over your shoulder. So instead you write policies to prevent the things people will naturally want to do. Which some people won't follow because it is inconvenient.
posted by xyzzy at 9:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [20 favorites]


Why does Sean Hannity look so uncomfortable in this photo. Where is Trump's left hand?
posted by humanfont at 9:06 PM on October 14, 2016


"Y'all! Small-town Mississippi paper, the Meridian Star, just endorsed Clinton. If you have a few bucks and a yen to read a small paper from the deep red South, consider buying a subscription. This is big (small) news, and I'm afraid may kill this brave little paper.
Meridian Star
"

Subscribers from all over might be helpful, but a couple other ways you could help is either buying an ad to thank them, or finding one of their advertisers and mail-ordering something — explicitly telling the advertiser that you found them through the Meridian Star.

A small town paper will probably value local relationships more than a distant subscriber. Helping local businesses recognize that world-wide internet attention from outsiders because of their newspaper can benefit them will help ensure that they don't pull their advertising.
posted by klangklangston at 9:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [25 favorites]


When it comes to U.S. democracy, which is closest to your view?

I have never had faith - 6%
I have lost faith - 40%
I have faith - 52%
No answer - 2%


I'm working on a Samuel Beckett/Cheers mashup in which the No Answer 2% respondents sit at a bar that has no windows or doors.
posted by perhapses at 9:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]


Apologies if this is already upthread:

Willie Nelson joins critics of leaked Donald Trump 'locker room talk' footage
Nelson: 'It's just bad judgement'


As goes Willie, so goes America.

Willie Nelson for President!
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:10 PM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]


dorothyisunderwood: I bet there are a lot of women (and some men) Trump voters thinking "I'm fine about it, it didn't hurt me, why is everyone making such a big deal over this?" Because the alternative is realising again that you have to rewrite your personal history with yet-another-that-was-abuse memory.

Great insight, thanks. Huh. Reminds me of something an older-generation POC in my circles said recently, about younger POCs calling out racism these days: "Sometimes the actual thing being protested hurts less than protesting about it." Which for myself I don't agree with at all, but okay, I can imagine what sort of experiences he may have had (the racist shit, and him trying to say something to people about it, and then the processing of both that he would have had to do) that led him to that conclusion.

In saying something, you make yourself vulnerable to people who have no problem damaging you actively, or damaging you passively through not giving a shit about you. You stick your hope, faith, and trust out there, defenceless, and if people you care for and respect sacrifice it on the altar of their aggression or indifference or trivialization, God yes it hurts. I've learned to deal with it by being emotionally guarded and wary of anybody who hasn't earned my trust.

Related: I just looked up notes I took from Margaret Heffernan's book Willful Blindness: Why We Ignore The Obvious At Our Peril, and these paragraphs may explain some women's reactions too:
[Quote from a therapist about some of her clients:] "Their identity is so tied into the role of being a good mother or a good wife that they have very little sense of self. Putting on an identity like a coat becomes very important to them. And they cannot take that coat off, it would leave them too vulnerable. It is like they've invested themselves in this role and they simply cannot afford to challenge their illusion.” . . .

We all strive to preserve an image of ourselves as consistent, stable, competent, and good. . . . Anything or anyone that threatens that sense of self produces pain that feels just as dangerous and unpleasant as hunger or thirst. A challenge to our big ideas feels life-threatening. And so we strive mightily to reduce the pain, either by ignoring the evidence that proves we are wrong, or by reinterpreting evidence to support us.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 9:12 PM on October 14, 2016 [27 favorites]


I want teleprompter-trashing gifs. Will some kind soul please post them?
posted by rebent at 9:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Scott Adams is so amazingly un-self-aware.
The “octopus” line about Trump is engineered persuasion of the highest order. It makes the story deeply visual and extra-creepy. Godzilla, or someone similarly skilled, is probably behind that word. It’s too engineered for a civilian to concoct during an interview. That’s professional work.
"And what's this 'visit from Auntie Flo' stuff? I've never heard that before. I'm supposed to believe that it was just made up on the spot? That a woman in her seventies might be intelligent and well spoken rather than some bumbling old cat lady? Or that women have conversations with other women, using certain shared imagery and slang (some dating back a century or more, like comparing handsy men to octopuses) to bond with each other over the difficulties and abuse that women alone have to deal with, and that I wouldn't know about the language they use unless I'd made a habit of treating women like human beings and actually listening to them? Please. I'm a hypnotist here."
posted by No-sword at 9:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [53 favorites]


Canada Just Wants To #TellAmericaItsGreat
Enter Canada, with a small, yet poignant show of support during our year of discontent. A Toronto-based creative agency called The Garden has created the "Tell America It's Great" campaign, complete with a hashtag and a video.
Aw thanks you guys. We love you too.
posted by sallybrown at 9:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [45 favorites]


I want teleprompter-trashing gifs. Will some kind soul please post them?

upthread. It's not so dramatic though.
posted by zachlipton at 9:15 PM on October 14, 2016


Be easy on Scott Adams. He has engineer's disease.
posted by My Dad at 9:16 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]




In saying something, you make yourself vulnerable to people who have no problem damaging you actively, or damaging you passively through not giving a shit about you.

It taps into the force multiplier effect of social media, especially Twitter. I have no idea what some of the campaign reporters and campaign staffers have to deal with on a minute-by-minute basis from people who have 3 followers and spend their entire fucking days @ing people with image macro shit, but I'm sure that it's psychologically damaging. Just spending a few days block-mute-reporting the worst people in the replies to their tweets (especially replies to media people with Jewish surnames) is draining.
posted by holgate at 9:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Nick Offerman was recently quoted that Ron Swanson might reluctantly vote for Hillary but more likely do a write in vote for Willie Nelson.

Where is Trump's left hand?
Probably the same place his right hand is here.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Didn't see posted already: will.i.am ft Apl.de.ap and Liane V - GRAB'm by the PU$$Y (Official Music Video)

That's awesome - sampling / remixing Chuck Brown? LOVE IT.
posted by god hates math at 9:21 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


In semi-related news, all of the three big name potential bidders to buy Twitter (Google, Disney and Salesforce.com) have decided "uh, no, we're not really interested". Of course, if Trump actually HAD some money, he'd buy it himself; guess he'll have to ask his pal Peter Thiel to front him for it.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:24 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Encryption + bio authentication (thumb, eyeball) are the best solutions

Bio-authentication doesn't have a 5th amendment block. And unless the courts decide that it does, we'll continue to see low-quality passwords used by anyone who is concerned about potential criminal accusations - even if they know those accusations would be entirely false.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


Be easy on Scott Adams. He has engineer's disease.

Please stop this. It's not clever, or funny, or accurate.
posted by madmethods at 9:26 PM on October 14, 2016 [29 favorites]


So, here's the crowd at this evening's Trump rally in Charlotte.

Not a great picture, but you get the idea. A small crowd (I'd guess under 1,000) in a corner of a cavernous convention center.

I think he's just down to the deplorables at this point. There was, in fact, at least one toddler there wearing a "Proud to be Deplorable" t-shirt. Also, a woman told me that she supports Trump because "I don't want the Muslims getting in here, not even the "good" ones."

They had a group of "Women for Trump" come out on stage before Trump spoke. An African American woman spoke on their behalf. She was one of only 3 or 4 Women of Color in the whole room, as far as I could tell. Part of her schtick was something about getting aboard "...the Trump Train...Choo Choo!" Someone else did the same thing at some point, so I guess "Trump Train...Choo Choo!" is a thing now.

For the love of all that is good and holy please let this campaign end.
posted by Cookiebastard at 9:27 PM on October 14, 2016 [44 favorites]


Eggmentum in Idaho! - 24 hours after announcing a volunteer gathering for @Evan_McMullin in Idaho Falls. This is unbelievable.

The expressions on their faces look like "Why are we here staring at a table full of breakfast foods?"
posted by cashman at 9:31 PM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]


An African American woman spoke on their behalf. She was one of only 3 or 4 Women of Color in the whole room, as far as I could tell. Part of her schtick was something about getting aboard "...the Trump Train...Choo Choo!

That's Trump surrogate team of sisters Diamond & Silk (Lynnette Hardaway and Rochelle Richardson).
posted by sallybrown at 9:31 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Actually, "Trump Train...Choo Choo!" is kind of dorky and normal, like "We Like Ike." I want to look at this one little thing through a pinhole and pretend the rest of this nightmare isn't happening.
posted by argybarg at 9:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


If you enjoy your pinhole view, then don't look at the first Google Image Search result for 'Trump Train' because it ain't normal or ok at all.

Result #5 is pretty amazing though.
posted by zachlipton at 9:38 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


That picture of trump on a tank has to be a troll.
posted by Yowser at 9:41 PM on October 14, 2016


I mean, it's right out of Idiocracy. Complete with advertising for "Big Gulp"
posted by Yowser at 9:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


I don't like the unshackled Trump. I would prefer the literally shackled Trump. Like in handcuffs. Because he should be arrested for multiple sexual assaults.
posted by MoonOrb at 9:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [12 favorites]


The tank picture comes from this freep thread, which has some even better ones, including the train going out of control with pepe as the engineer. It's a giant troll.

You can buy a print on Etsy
posted by zachlipton at 9:45 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


McMuffin has never been polled in Idaho, who knows, maybe Idaho was mistakenly marked as an all day biscuit market, but really they've been clamoring for McMuffins this whole time.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:48 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


generally older
...
So don't well-actually me on this shit


Whatever. Your words. I only invited you to reflect on them. A description of user behavior which did not highlight age would not have prompted my observation.
posted by mwhybark at 9:49 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]




@michaelianblack: "Apprentice contestant and Trump Supporter Jennifer Murphy just accidentally buried her guy on CNN by admitting he kissed her on the lips."

And she said he surprised her doing it. But tried to recover saying it didn't bother her. This was earlier this evening.
posted by chris24 at 9:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [40 favorites]


You might really enjoy the animated version. (I posted this in the threads a couple of months ago and I am no less astounded by it today.)
posted by mochapickle at 9:53 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


Gosh, with all that money Freerepublic raises, their website sure has changed since 2001!
posted by Yowser at 9:54 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Trump surrogate team of sisters Diamond & Silk (Lynnette Hardaway and Rochelle Richardson).

Okay, you made me find their YouTube channel, and.... well, now I know that's a thing that I didn't know was a thing before.

I am not certain I am in any way better off than in my earlier, blissful ignorance, but I do know that I am going to have some very confused nightmares tonight.

(All of which is a longwinded way of saying whaaaaaaaaaat?)
posted by rokusan at 9:56 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


Bill Clinton The Lady Killer EPIC SIZE 24x36" Poster

Why is Bill astride a nuclear-powered crocodile? Is this a reference to something? Have I forgotten the 90s already?

Larger version; I remain confused.
posted by rokusan at 9:58 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


How appropriate that the Trump Train hosts images on Slim(e)g.
posted by nicebookrack at 9:59 PM on October 14, 2016


Bio-authentication doesn't have a 5th amendment block. And unless the courts decide that it does, we'll continue to see low-quality passwords used by anyone who is concerned about potential criminal accusations - even if they know those accusations would be entirely false.
That's an important point that I should have addressed. Bio protects you from telling social engineers your dumb email password. It does not stop you from opening trojan laden .xls files from people with misspelled e-mail addresses nor does it protect you from the law. But if you use encryption that is password protected, the law can't get you and xls guy will have to capture you typing in your password to decrypt your email.

I can only hope that fears of leaks will finally get people to deal with security hygiene.
posted by xyzzy at 9:59 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


That Diamond and Silk Table Topic 47 is just... I don't even have words.

Law and Order (Trump style) good, stop and frisk good. What in the fuck.
posted by Yowser at 10:00 PM on October 14, 2016


Richard Nixon fighting a Sabertooth Tiger HQ

With brass knuckles, no less. Tricky Dick can't win unless he's cheating.
posted by Slap*Happy at 10:01 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


You've jogged my memory on the pedophilia heavy Slimg.

The NAMBLA mystery deepens.

Oh god I feel dirty saying that. Jokes like that aren't funny when they intersect with real life. When is Trump's first court date anyways?
posted by Yowser at 10:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


Willie Nelson [on Trump's videotape]: 'It's just bad judgement'

Oh, Willie, I.... I just can't. It's too easy.

I love you, Willie.
posted by rokusan at 10:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


The crocodile just happened to be in the shot; it was there to eat and/or blow up Ronald McDonald (background left). It doesn't mean anything.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 10:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


I think Bill Clinton with the bionic crocodile wins.. Whatever this is.
posted by Yowser at 10:05 PM on October 14, 2016


That Bill Clinton image reminds me of The Ultimate Showdown for some reason. And now I'm going to bed...
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:08 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]




When is Trump's first court date anyways?

Trump University class-action fraud: November 28 (which may be why he mentioned that as the date to vote)

Civil lawsuit for the alleged rape of a 13 year old: December 16
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]


I'm actually fairly disappointed that Willie Nelson didn't say unequivocally "what he's describing is sexual assault, and that's not okay." Even if he doesn't want to endorse Hillary Clinton, I'd like him to be on the side of "that's wrong" not "that's bad publicity".

Oh, Willie.
posted by Lexica at 10:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]


@DLin71: If you rearrange the letters of Trump’s character witness Gilberthorpe, you get “Blithe Groper”
posted by chris24 at 10:16 PM on October 14, 2016 [34 favorites]


The Ultimate Showdown reminds me that the accusation that Hillary is a Lemon Demon is totally bogus (It's Neil Cicieraga)
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:17 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]


One of my strongest early political memories is the replay of Hillary Clinton talking about a 'vast right-wing conspiracy' over and over and over and over. Trump is literally accusing her of a vast left-wing conspiracy. Trump's fucking Mirror, guys.

False equivalence. There actually was a (maybe not so vast) right-wing conspiracy against the Clintons.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [21 favorites]


Trump's refusal to accept intelligence briefing on Russia stuns experts

Several former intelligence officials interviewed this week believe that Trump is either willfully disputing intelligence assessments, has a blind spot on Russia, or perhaps doesn't understand the nonpartisan traditions and approach of intelligence professionals.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [74 favorites]


False equivalence. There actually was a (maybe not so vast) right-wing conspiracy against the Clintons.

It was half-vast.
posted by Cookiebastard at 10:25 PM on October 14, 2016 [31 favorites]


has a blind spot on Russia

That's a pretty whitewashed way of saying, "is an active FSB asset".
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:33 PM on October 14, 2016 [38 favorites]


Several former intelligence officials interviewed this week believe that Trump is either willfully disputing intelligence assessments, has a blind spot on Russia, or perhaps doesn't understand the nonpartisan traditions and approach of intelligence professionals.

False trichotomy.
posted by dersins at 11:03 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]


When is Trump's first court date anyways?

Adding to the list, MONDAY is the deadline for The Donald J. Trump Foundation to get right with the NY AG's office.
posted by mikelieman at 11:18 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]


In Capitalist America, Monday drops oppo on YOU!
posted by Yowser at 11:19 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]


Are you fired up?
Are you ready to go?
posted by rp at 11:29 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]


The tank picture comes from this freep thread

Pretty sure it's older than that; sharpwriter on deviantart has been doing stuff like this for a while now. Which reminds me that I really need to send him some money for unauthorizedly appropriating one of his pictures for biscotti's citizenship cake.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:39 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]




has a blind spot on Russia

Over in Trump-land, his supporters are citing articles like this one about a possible Cyber strike on Russia and seriously arguing that Trump needs to step in *before the election* to prevent a war from breaking out. A lot of Trump-is-our-only-hope rhetoric at work.
posted by frumiousb at 12:50 AM on October 15, 2016


[One deleted. Totally get the rage thing, but take a breath and let's skip the genital-size insults and similar, and just generally avoid youtube comments-level gross stuff.]
posted by taz at 1:11 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


When is Trump's first court date anyways?

Since it's so hard to keep track, I created a Google Calendar of Upcoming Donald J. Trump Court Dates

If anyone has more than the 3 currently on it, LMK and I'll update it.
posted by mikelieman at 1:17 AM on October 15, 2016 [18 favorites]


"It defies logic," retired Gen. Michael Hayden, former director of the CIA and the National Security Agency, said of Trump's pronouncements.

Ha. You, sir, have apparently not been paying attention to the campaign. Defying logic is practically Trump's entire platform.
posted by threeturtles at 2:12 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


Where is the Hillary poster with her going all Joan of Arc with a sword on the back of a dragon? I'd even settle for a Mr & Mrs Smith send up with Bill. (He can wear the leg holster.)
posted by asteria at 2:28 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Still catching up, but i'm surprised that no one has made a trump-related sign saying:

"I AM NOT A CUCK"

I could actually see that going both ways, ala 'deplorables'.
posted by lkc at 2:31 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


One because that word is nasty. Two, Clinton herself said "deplorables" while cuck isn't something Trump has said. I'm sure he thinks it.
posted by Justinian at 2:35 AM on October 15, 2016


Can I just say, I really hope next week's oppo ahead of the debate is about something a little less immediately harrowing?

Fat chance, I know.
posted by E. Whitehall at 2:51 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


It could always be more tax returns!
posted by asteria at 3:03 AM on October 15, 2016


I bet there's more financial and business shoes to drop. Maybe the foundation gets shut down.

Nobody's claiming to have been his coke dealer in 1981 yet, and that always has to happen at some point. So we have that to look forward to. On the lighter side.
posted by rhizome at 3:04 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


One because that word is nasty.

For those as unaware as me of this term's newfound nastiness, here's a deep dive: D. Schwartz, Why Angry White Men Love Calling People “Cucks”
posted by progosk at 3:04 AM on October 15, 2016 [9 favorites]




It defies logic...

The reasonable reply is, perhaps

...when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
-Arthur Conan Doyle via Sherlock Holmes

Though, I mean come on the writers *have* been totally craven and 2016 has been a wicked shit show. The very concept that the Donald is a Russian 'asset' is... so extravagantly improbable that you want to say it is impossible but you can't, not with absolute certainty.

The simpler solution, and fully in accordance with Trump's razor, is that he's too fucking stupid and ... no, his constantly defending of Russia against any malfeasance presses the grotesquely improbable conclusion...

Yeah, we need a new team of writers. This is all starting to sound like an episode of 'Alf.'
posted by From Bklyn at 3:34 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


It's got to hurt like hell to be rejected by an entire nation. I think Trump deserves every bit of pain that he'll go through when he loses but what I don't get is why he's increasing the the hurt by behaving so gracelessly. I know that sounds naive but this spectacle of him punching himself in the face is hard to watch. On the other hand, I am enjoying it.
posted by rdr at 3:55 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


Donald Trump’s ‘international bankers’ speech leaves some uneasy

I've read what some actual white supremacists are saying about this speech. For all the hand wringing about what exactly he was talking about, they picked up its meaning perfectly fine. I saw one neo-Nazi article calling him, approvingly, "literally Hitler" as a result of this speech. They don't care if he wins or loses at this point; they know "the war" has started and they're damn pleased with themselves to have a major Presidential candidate talking like this. And I'm terrified.
posted by zachlipton at 3:57 AM on October 15, 2016 [32 favorites]


Weirdo 7am Saturday morning tweet from Trump: "100% fabricated and made-up charges, pushed strongly by the media and the Clinton Campaign, may poison the minds of the American Voter. FIX!" --@realDonaldTrump
posted by zachlipton at 4:00 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]



Why is it the GoP still? By now it should be the PoT: Party of Trump.
posted by esto-again at 4:16 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I've read what some actual white supremacists are saying about this speech. For all the hand wringing about what exactly he was talking about, they picked up its meaning perfectly fine. I saw one neo-Nazi article calling him, approvingly, "literally Hitler" as a result of this speech.

Let’s just say it: Trump sounds more and more like Hitler. Maybe not like 1941 Hitler or 1934 Hitler, but uncomfortably like 1922 Hitler.

Congratulations, Donald, you've Godwinned an American presidential campaign.
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:16 AM on October 15, 2016 [35 favorites]


My shrink made an interesting point yesterday:

Trump is being defeated as a disgraced candidate. The ideas that power his campaign will not have been repudiated, only the man.

Then my shrink went on to make the shrink-y point that Trump's supporters, rather than going back to, um, whatever Trump supporters will actually do, will feel more victimized than they already are, because they'll see their ideas not as beaten, but rather that their ideas had a fatally flawed spokesperson

So, yay.
posted by angrycat at 4:43 AM on October 15, 2016 [47 favorites]


angrycat: Yes, that's what terrifies me about this whole situation more than anything - the fact that he is not being shut down based on the ideas, but based on -him-. I can only predict that 2020 is going to be even uglier, with a more savvy candidate willing to espouse the same hateful and isolationist policies stepping in to fill the vacuum ... One who might actually win the election. Unfortunately, we won't be able to let down our guard after the election - instead, we're just going to have to fight more.
posted by jferg at 4:50 AM on October 15, 2016 [11 favorites]


That Etsy shop linked upthread looks like what would happen if Chuck Tingle was an editorial cartoonist.
posted by pxe2000 at 4:52 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


I'm really disturbed by women I know, who would call themselves feminist activists, like that is their whole main THING, and they haven't said word one about the Trump tape or allegations or taken part in the conversation at all.
threeturtles, maybe it's because they can't.

I am not one of the women you are talking about. But since the trumptape last week, I have been able to go to work, read these election threads, and lie in bed, interspersed with crying and retching.

It reminds me of when I was eleven and found out what the word 'molest' meant, and realised what happened to me when I was six.

I can barely post this comment.

Maybe the women of which you speak are feeling like I do?
posted by mgrrl at 4:55 AM on October 15, 2016 [107 favorites]


You know, a lot of people have been referring to recent revelations as opposition research and wondering what else they've got and when it's going to drop.

I don't think it is.

Alicia Machado -- that was opposition research. Clinton knew about it, dropped it on him in a debate, then released a video about it immediately after. Great work, caught him completely off guard with his own history. The contractors he's stiffed? Some of that came out, or at least got much more widely disseminated, as a result of opposition research. The Clinton campaign found out about some of them, sought them out, and asked them to go on record.

The rest of the recent stuff, though? Someone with access to a few of his tax returns mailed them to the Times. Someone at NBC leaked the "I like sexual assault" tape to the Washington Post. The women who have come forward to say that he assaulted them are doing it of their own volition because he lied about what he did to them in front of millions of people. The closest thing to "opposition research" has been reporters hearing him say in an interview that he likes walking in on naked pageant contestants in the dressing room and them going to some contestants and asking if that ever happened (answer: yup.) Even that didn't come from his political opponents, it was just an obvious question to ask once that comment started making the rounds. And just about everything else is literally, "A thing Donald Trump said aloud himself just now while we all watched", like the Central Park Five statement.

His whole, "The Clintons are behind all of this!" thing just sounds nuts to me. Hillary Clinton (not "the Clintons" -- why does he keep acting like he's running against Bill, too?) has pretty much been sitting back and letting the ongoing implosion continue to implode.

This isn't "opposition research". There isn't a file somewhere of stuff labeled "release one of these videos each week of October". This is all on top of the opposition research. This is just a candidate so friggin' horrific that people keep coming forward to tell their own horrific stories about him. Over and over and over.
posted by kyrademon at 4:58 AM on October 15, 2016 [76 favorites]


Ha! "I am not a cuck" sounds like "I am not a crook." Nixon was also known for waving around the "V for victory" hand sign. The ancient "V" horns behind someone's head, so prevalent in photos, is posited by some to mean "this person is a cuckold." It all comes full circle! What does it all mean?! (Probably that this election has made me absolutely loopy.)
posted by thebrokedown at 5:01 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


I think the tax return might have been opposition research. I'm guessing that there's more pieces of oppo waiting on the shelf but Trump hasn't gone for a long enough between self destructive acts for them to drop them.
posted by rdr at 5:06 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


In all his years grabbing pussy, Trump never got a handful of their "whatever from wherever" or whatever his gibberish was? Hygiene products aren't fool proof.

For some reason this has me thinking about pressure sensitive dye packs with "bank heist" ink ... not that I'd want that near my bikini area.
posted by tilde at 5:06 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]



So it turns out I'm going to be an election judge somewhere in Berkeley. What have I got myself in to?



In my experience, you're there from open to shut, to sign things and witness breaking of seals on stuff, countersifning tallies, witnessing assisted voters, ruling with an opposite party rep on voter challenges and use of secondary identification cards.
posted by tilde at 5:08 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


The ancient "V" horns behind someone's head, so prevalent in photos, is posited by some to mean "this person is a cuckold."

It... wait what.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 5:36 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


This makes me furious

WaPo Group accuses Mike Pence of voter suppression after state police raid registration program in Indiana
On Oct. 4, one week before the state’s deadline to register to vote, state police raided the Indianapolis office of the Indiana Voter Registration Project, seizing computers, cellphones and records. The state police launched an investigation in late August after elections officials in Hendricks County, a suburb of Indianapolis, alerted authorities to some applications that seemed amiss. A spokesman for the state police told local news media that “at least 10” applications were confirmed to be fraudulent.

Varoga estimates that 45,000 people, most of them African Americans, might not be able to vote on Nov. 8 because their applications were seized during the raid. [...]“They singled out one African American male, put him in handcuffs,” says one woman. “They lined us up against the wall, treated us like criminals,” says another woman.[...]

Varoga said the Indiana Voter Registration Project was launched in May and had hoped to sign up 50,000 voters by the Oct. 11 deadline. He thinks they would have reached the goal had the state police not shut down the program. Patriot Majority has conducted voter registration drives in 12 other states Varoga said, and “in no other state have we seen the state police brought in to harass canvassers, to go homes of canvassers and threaten them with arrest and demanding they take polygraph tests.”
Handcuffs? Polygraph tests? What the hell, Indiana? Like many of you other MeFiers I have been registering voters. If things work out in Indiana for the Republicans can we expect to see this sort of intimidation in NC? Will I be put in handcuffs for signing up minorities to vote? Bring it on, because I don't mind going to jail for doing the right thing, the AMERICAN thing. I'm a bigger patriot than that faker Mike Pence and I believe in Democracy.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:51 AM on October 15, 2016 [117 favorites]


Yeah, there are a number of Shakespearean plays that have jokes about putting horns on someone's head; they're references to being cuckolded.
posted by EarBucket at 5:51 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]




@realDonaldTrump: "Hillary Clinton should have been prosecuted and should be in jail. Instead she is running for president in what looks like a rigged election"

Fuck this piece of shit. And more importantly, fuck Ryan and any Republicans who don't denounce this attack on our democracy.
posted by chris24 at 5:55 AM on October 15, 2016 [32 favorites]


The deal with Scott Adams as I see it: I think his first few blog posts about Trump and persuasion techniques were honest observations based on a skill he went to some effort to develop and which most of us didn't (because face it, most of us aren't assholes who think it would be cool to manipulate other people, but whatevs.) What he said then is consistent with what others have also said and with what I personally know about general propaganda techniques.

But then the reaction steamrolled him and he realized he had a tiger by the tail, so being Scott Adams he decided to play with it and he's basically been trolling ever since. I think you can date the transition pretty precisely to the post where he disabled blog comments.
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:56 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


In this brief lull, in the November issue of Vanity Fair the Editor's Letter mentions the 1993 White House Correspondents' Association dinner in which Graydon Carter invited Donald Trump to be his "novelty guest", a "tabloid oddity of the moment". He also invited a Swedish model and seated her next to him. This woman, who I don't think has come forward on her own but this story was reprinted in the Daily Fail yesterday so she might, got up after 45 minutes to beg Carter to change her seat because Trump was commenting on the figures ("tits") of the other female guests and she just couldn't stand to listen to it anymore. "He is the most vulgar man I have ever met," she said.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:58 AM on October 15, 2016 [22 favorites]


Writer Jared Yates Sexton made it into the Trump rally in Charlotte last night and live tweeted the experience. (Apologies - it's not threaded or storified so you'll have to read from here forwards.) A warning: he describes it as "the most concentrated misogyny and examples of rape culture I will ever see." What he describes is incredibly vile.
posted by bluecore at 6:01 AM on October 15, 2016 [32 favorites]


Ah, Pence, continuing his role as the quieter, strategically terrifying veep. Trump brags about not telling you and exhorts you to trust him. Pence tells you and expects you to like it.

In a way I'm glad hitching himself so closely to Trump seems to have affected his career; while I'd wish in a perfect world that his attempt to attach undue burden to miscarriages and the ilk would have him reviled from all sides, association with Trump seems the next best thing for the majority.

2018 and 2020 does concern me, though. He's just too well-practiced from talk radio, and this cycle is really bringing out the entire thing where people demonstrate repeatedly the standards they are willing to walk past and accept.
posted by E. Whitehall at 6:02 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


> "I think the tax return might have been opposition research."

Eh, maybe, but I don't think so. Much has been made of Clinton bringing up the possibility that he doesn't pay taxes in the first debate. But that was already a known theory (because of the casino license application) that she listed with a bunch of other known theories (ties to Russia, no charitable donations). Trump was the one who idiotically drew extra attention to it with his "That makes me smart" comment. (No one attacks Donald Trump more effectively than Donald Trump.)
posted by kyrademon at 6:06 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


> "Writer Jared Yates Sexton made it into the Trump rally in Charlotte last night and live tweeted the experience. (Apologies - it's not threaded or storified so you'll have to read from here forwards.)"

Oh my god.

The blood literally drained away from my face as I was reading through that.
posted by kyrademon at 6:14 AM on October 15, 2016 [14 favorites]


It's got to hurt like hell to be rejected by an entire nation.

Nah. IANAP, but if Trump's half the narcissistic sociopath he acts like, "hurting" is for other people, people with those... "feelings."

That's a big part of the whole problem, actually—dude would rather bring down an entire fucking nation than to admit that he's not as great as he thinks he is.
posted by Rykey at 6:15 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


If things work out in Indiana for the Republicans can we expect to see this sort of intimidation in NC?
I think we should expect this sort of voter intimidation in any swing state or district where people of color hold the balance of power. It's a strategy, and it's not going away. It's also a huge reason that the Supreme Court is so important: we need justices who recognize the importance of voting rights if we're going to fight this thing effectively.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:20 AM on October 15, 2016 [11 favorites]


Kyrademon yes. It was so appalling. The mysogyny is astounding "how can a woman lead an army" and the repeated accusations on whoredom. What really got me though was the thinly veiled reference to lynching protesters. I was ready to stop reading, then he said "I've gotten into the rally and the first speaker is up soon". It hadn't even started yet. I read a bit further, but not much. I honestly can't comprehend that level of hate.
posted by Measured Out my Life in Coffeespoons at 6:20 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


I read those tweets too.

I think the only thing you can say to that vileness is: that's not my America. Not by a long shot.
posted by Sublimity at 6:22 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


I love that Donald was at a real-life "Dinner for Idiots," for some reason.
posted by Yowser at 6:27 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


I can only predict that 2020 is going to be even uglier, with a more savvy candidate willing to espouse the same hateful and isolationist policies stepping in to fill the vacuum ... One who might actually win the election.

This election is like the easy mode of rejecting fascism, and we are still awfully close to fucking it up. It's a time of relative stability, and the standard bearer of the other side is a cartoonishly horrible, dumb-as-rocks, rapey, race-baiting, misogynist douchefuck who is, if not actually colluding with our geopolitical adversaries, then is at least benefiting from their interference. And yet ~40% of the population is still supporting this clownbag. Throw in a recession, a successful terror attack, and suddenly it seems plausible that he'd be elected.

Actually, we did fuck it up, insofar as one of the major parties nominated this piece of shit, but we get a do-over because: easy mode.
posted by logicpunk at 6:33 AM on October 15, 2016 [73 favorites]


Trump says the election is rigged — and his supporters are furious

"And if Trump doesn’t win, some are even openly talking about violent rebellion and assassination, as fantastical and unhinged as that may seem.

“If she’s in office, I hope we can start a coup. She should be in prison or shot. That’s how I feel about it,” Dan Bowman, a 50-year-old contractor, said of Hillary Clinton, the Democratic nominee. “We’re going to have a revolution and take them out of office if that’s what it takes. There’s going to be a lot of bloodshed. But that’s what it’s going to take. . . . I would do whatever I can for my country.”"

Read the whole scary thing. Again, fuck Ryan and every Republican for aiding and abetting this.
posted by chris24 at 6:35 AM on October 15, 2016 [88 favorites]


If Paul Ryan had a spine and a more populist streak id be legit afraid of 2020.
posted by ian1977 at 6:36 AM on October 15, 2016


Oh, I think this is a heterarchical network of loosely and tightly coordinated oppo work. The fire has grown beyond its seeds, but the rhythm is too good to be accidental. It's like watching a duet. Except Astaire is doing some late-Brando, Chaplin-in-The-Dictator work and Ginger is doing everything backwards in high heels (and dubbing her own taps), while continually baiting him into punching himself in the face.

Here's Ben Carson telling TV producers to shut off his (female, BBC) interviewer's mic.

But think about Ailes and Trump as an axis. That, to me, is the long con here.
posted by sixswitch at 6:37 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


If push comes to shove, 99% of these assholes will expect other people to do the killing and dying, but all it will take is a few to fuck everything up beyond repair.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:37 AM on October 15, 2016 [32 favorites]


So I went to see David Sedaris last night; it was some much needed hilarity right now! Of course someone asked what he thought about the election. He lives abroad and is usually in the states for elections doing book tours. He's been traveling via car all over the eastern US for about ten days. He said what really struck him this time is that he's so used to every public space, highway medians, etc. being littered with election signs, and this time around he's just not seeing them. He said it was very surprising and actually eerie. I'm in downtown DC where signs aren't really a thing, but I've had friends from the DC suburbs say the same thing. What do you think that's about? I can think of a few possibilities:

*The Trump campaign just isn't organized enough to get that kind of work done.
*The Hillary campaign has decided that signs just aren't worth it and aren't going down that road (as some upthread have said).
*People realize how tense this election is and, knowing that they have to live and work next to these people for the next 20 years, they're not wanting to stir the pot.

I've really been enjoying the sign reports upthread, and recognize that not everyone may see this change. Is anyone else noticing this and what do you think it's about?
posted by kinsey at 6:41 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


GOP States Keep Ignoring Court Orders to Restore Voting Rights: Wisconsin, Ohio, Texas, and North Carolina won’t stop suppressing the vote.

But it's "rigged" against Trump.
posted by chris24 at 6:41 AM on October 15, 2016 [80 favorites]


WaPo Group accuses Mike Pence of voter suppression after state police raid registration program in Indiana

Mike Pence is the human embodiment of everything that's wrong with the Republican Party: eager to disenfranchise voters for political gain; contemptuous of the rights and dignity of women, queer people, and people of color; and willing to embrace a fascist if it gets him what he wants.

If Pence still has a viable career after Trump is gone, we'll know we haven't done enough to fix the problems with our culture, and with the Republican Party, that this election is making so manifest.
posted by galaxy rise at 6:43 AM on October 15, 2016 [24 favorites]


Writer Jared Yates Sexton made it into the Trump rally in Charlotte last night and live tweeted the experience. (Apologies - it's not threaded or storified so you'll have to read from here forwards.) A warning: he describes it as "the most concentrated misogyny and examples of rape culture I will ever see." What he describes is incredibly vile.

This is really shocking, even by the standards of this election. I don't think Obama ever faced anything like this.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:44 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


From the Boston Globe article: “If she’s in office, I hope we can start a coup. She should be in prison or shot. That’s how I feel about it,” Dan Bowman, a 50-year-old contractor, said of Hillary Clinton, the Democratic nominee. “We’re going to have a revolution and take them out of office if that’s what it takes. There’s going to be a lot of bloodshed. But that’s what it’s going to take. . . . I would do whatever I can for my country.”

How do you not get a visit from the Secret Service for this?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:45 AM on October 15, 2016 [97 favorites]


"There’s going to be a lot of bloodshed. But that’s what it’s going to take. . . . I would do whatever I can for my country.”

We had to destroy the country in order to save it?
posted by Slothrup at 6:45 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Another tidbit from the Globe article:

“Trump said to watch you precincts. I’m going to go, for sure,” said Steve Webb, a 61-year-old carpenter from Fairfield, Ohio.

“I’ll look for . . . well, it’s called racial profiling. Mexicans. Syrians. People who can’t speak American,” he said. “I’m going to go right up behind them. I’ll do everything legally. I want to see if they are accountable. I’m not going to do anything illegal. I’m going to make them a little bit nervous.”
posted by chris24 at 6:46 AM on October 15, 2016 [53 favorites]


At some point the task will be to confront the fascism head on. Only the entire GOP leadership is implicated in it. Just a sea of cowards who put party above country.

How...seriously, how do you deal with a cancer like that?
posted by schadenfrau at 6:46 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


Writer Jared Yates Sexton made it into the Trump rally in Charlotte last night and live tweeted the experience.

Jesus fucking Christ.

I tell you what, I am done having any sympathy for these delusional fucks and I am done being told they can be reached or what the fuck ever if some middle ground can be found. They are scum, pure and simple.
posted by Artw at 6:48 AM on October 15, 2016 [50 favorites]


There are always a percentage of cranks who respond to every setback by muttering about time to water the tree of liberty and Civil War II has begun and keep your powder dry. These are also the ones who are convinced that the Silent Majority approves of this and the armed forces approve of this and once the Grand Revolution begins, they will use their guns and their overwhelming numbers to simply sweep over America and drive all the hippies and nonwhite people into the sea.

Luckily, (a) they are so wrong that it degrades the word 'wrong' to use it in that context and (b) these people are fuck-up-a-grilled-cheese-sandwich stupid. One of the few good things about domestic terrorism is that those sufficiently imbalanced to desire it are rarely stable and smart enough to pull it off.

However... do not underestimate the damage one crank can do. Ask Gabby Giffords about that. You're lucky you can still ask her. Or the people in Las Vegas. Or your local Somali refugees in Kansas.

"If you see something, say something" isn't just about people who don't look like the locals.
posted by delfin at 6:48 AM on October 15, 2016 [27 favorites]


“Trump said to watch you precincts. I’m going to go, for sure,” said Steve Webb, a 61-year-old carpenter from Fairfield, Ohio.

“I’ll look for . . . well, it’s called racial profiling. Mexicans. Syrians. People who can’t speak American,” he said. “I’m going to go right up behind them. I’ll do everything legally. I want to see if they are accountable. I’m not going to do anything illegal. I’m going to make them a little bit nervous.”


I think we all know who's not speaking American here, Steve.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 6:51 AM on October 15, 2016 [126 favorites]


Oh, I reacted without seeing that Silver was trolling. You people. You didnt REAL or FAKE.

But this tweet wasn't straightforward [REAL] or [FAKE]. More like:

[FAKE image][REAL humor]

or

[SATIRE]

It's getting really tough to distinguish these days. Poe's Law, ya'all.
posted by zakur at 6:52 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Charlotte Observer: Why we’re not endorsing Pat McCrory for the first time in 25 years: After the 2014 mid-term elections, we wrote an editorial suggesting to McCrory things he should do to win re-election in 2016. “Stay away from lightning-rod social issues. They’re a political loser in a purple state, and a distraction from those ‘very complex problems’ you hope to solve.”

Governor, meet lightning rod. McCrory rushed to sign House Bill 2 on March 23, hours after the House and Senate rammed it through. North Carolina’s reputation has been melting ever since. McCrory adamantly defends the discriminatory measure and dismisses the NCAA, the ACC, scores of business executives and others who have condemned the legislation. It was a hateful and self-defeating bill, and it will be McCrory’s legacy

posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:53 AM on October 15, 2016 [40 favorites]


How do you not get a visit from the Secret Service for this?

Very often, you do. But these days I imagine there's a lot of triage going on because even the Secret Service field ops have their manpower limits.

I am actually surprised, and greatly relieved, that we have reached the twilight of Barack Obama's terms and while some people have plotted to kill him, their own ineptitude and the Secret Service's and law enforcement's competency has avoided a "live fire" event where Obama had to duck and cover. That is how it is supposed to work and Hillary must receive the same level of protection. But I fear for Congresspeople, state officials, local officials, judges, Letters to the Editor authors, you name it who draw the attention of the wrong shithead and don't have any inkling that they're being targeted. They will be the collateral damage from this rousing of rabble and these false outcries of fraud.
posted by delfin at 6:58 AM on October 15, 2016 [19 favorites]


AM Joy just started with a black screen with the statement:

"Last night the Donald Trump campaign canceled all surrogates scheduled on AM Joy.

Enjoy the show."

I WILL
posted by schadenfrau at 7:02 AM on October 15, 2016 [59 favorites]


Trump on sex assault allegations, "I am a victim."

AILES: You should tell 'em you're the victim.
BANNON: (mouth full of sour cream) Yeah!
posted by petebest at 7:02 AM on October 15, 2016 [27 favorites]


Alan Cole had an interesting tweetstorm on Kellyanne this morning. Storified.
posted by Talez at 7:07 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


Calm down everybody. If you're a journalist and you want to find an overheated moron to say he wants to shoot Hillary Clinton, you can. You always can.

The crowds at Trump's rallies are thinning out. There are not militias forming in town squares. The American people are very hard to organize, espeicially by unappealingly stupid prople.

And Donald Trump is very strongly getting his ass kicked. Take a look at Charlie Cook. He's a very cautious and non-partisan handicapper. What does he say? "This race is over."

Now I know the hornet's nest can be nasty and the hate is hard to bear. But this is like the emotional turmoil, the big family fight, right before the abuser finally gets kicked out of the house. He promises he'll have his revenge, he's going to make everyone suffer. But don't be fainthearted. Kick the fucker out, stabilize, and things will be fine. Or at least there is no other way for things to be fine.
posted by argybarg at 7:13 AM on October 15, 2016 [40 favorites]


I've posted about it here a couple times before but my back deck looks over the site of a lone wolf domestic terrorism incident (three LEO killed in the line of duty). This was 2009, a few months about Obama was inaugurated and the perp (currently on PA death row) was convinced Obama was going to take his guns. He was a white supremacist and all around dumbfuck living with his mom. He intentionally ambushed and targeted police. There was a SWAT shoot out for hours (at the time I didn't live in this house, but another one a couple of blocks away).

While I do tend to agree that 99.9% of these people really can't actually be fucked to do anything more than talk big, all it takes is a couple. And no one in this guy's family really did shit about his known stockpiling of weaponry and anti - government rhetoric, probably because they mostly agreed with him except for the actually doing it part. His bestie had the audacity to go on tv later, after three people half been murdered, to claim that really he was not a bad guy and this was sooooo surprising that he'd do this. And then you go look at his social media and he's all over Stormfront and shit. Oh yeah, totally awesome dude. Very upstanding.

We coddle these people at our peril.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:16 AM on October 15, 2016 [96 favorites]


@ppppolls: In Florida 88% of Clinton voters actually like her, only 82% of Trump voters like him. Lots of the enthusiasm CW in this race is off
posted by chris24 at 7:18 AM on October 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


There are not militias forming in town squares.

No, just in secret - Militia members arrested in alleged plot targeting Muslims
posted by zakur at 7:18 AM on October 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


I'm not worried about losing or revolution. I'm pissed that Ryan et al are so craven that they're letting this anger/craziness build that will end up hurting someone.
posted by chris24 at 7:21 AM on October 15, 2016 [11 favorites]


I think the militias will be energized when Trump loses. I think lone gunmen will have their episodes. I'm terribly sad about that. But I do not believe we are watching a popular uprising or wave of bloodshed, or a fundamental shift into an insecure state.
posted by argybarg at 7:22 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


AM Joy just started with a black screen with the statement:

"Last night the Donald Trump campaign canceled all surrogates scheduled on AM Joy.

So is this Trump's plan? Can't defend it among an avalanche of women telling your 'grab' stories, so pull all your people under the guise of "the media is being unfair to me"?

It also helps him hide from interviews that usually, if my memory is correct, ramp up leading up to the election. Interviews with 60 minutes, interviews with local media outlets, etc. He's going to do what everyone supposed, and direct them to his shitty new tv venture, isn't he.
posted by cashman at 7:26 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


I just want to throw in with the exhausted women who have been trying to keep our heads above water this week.

I won't go into explaining why right now having a woman's body (which like most womens', has been touched without consent before) at the center of public political discourse makes you feel like a goddamn tuning fork, sensitive to the social world.

Anyway - you're not alone, I'm not alone (women). Please group hug. This shit is important, even if your colleagues, partners, fathers and friends aren't discussing it with you.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 7:26 AM on October 15, 2016 [82 favorites]


What are the chances that instead of fragmenting after their loss the GOP actually steers into this harder? Embraces being the party of rape culture and home grown terrorism harder than it ever has before?
posted by Artw at 7:28 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


> Does anyone else feel like the last debate might cause actual psychological trauma to the audience?

My wife and I are going to skip it because the second debate cost us sleep and a measure of sanity. It'll be interesting to see how much the audience drops; I'm going to presume that will be the main reason.
posted by languagehat at 7:28 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


((hug))
posted by mikelieman at 7:28 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


So is this Trump's plan? Can't defend it among an avalanche of women telling your 'grab' stories, so pull all your people under the guise of "the media is being unfair to me"?

No. They'll say that the media is being partisan not putting their guests on and people will believe them. It further seeds distrust for his biggest critics.
posted by Talez at 7:28 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Also: After 9/11 I felt that the strongest response would be to make a few security adjustments, make some public renewals of our belief in due process and free expression of religion, and keep on trucking. Just deprive the spark of its oxygen and kindling and move along. I feel the same thing here. This whole idea of Trump's Angry Idiots representing an existential threat to our nation is a step backwards. And I know no one here is talking about clampdowns etc., but it would be helpful for us not to preemptively overheat.
posted by argybarg at 7:30 AM on October 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


I think the militias will be energized when Trump loses. I think lone gunmen will have their episodes. I'm terribly sad about that. But I do not believe we are watching a popular uprising or wave of bloodshed, or a fundamental shift into an insecure state.

I do not believe that either. There will not be a Million Deplorable March gunning down all in its path.

But there will be violence. And "insecure state" depends greatly on who you are, where you live, and what people think you look like.
posted by delfin at 7:30 AM on October 15, 2016 [18 favorites]


Kelllyanne has lost complete control of the phone. Jesus Christ his twitter feed is just, what in the fucking fuck?
posted by Talez at 7:32 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


If you want to be calm, be calm. But for those of us in likely in the crosshairs, please don't tell us to just be calm.
posted by cashman at 7:32 AM on October 15, 2016 [68 favorites]


Remember in 64 the Goldwater GOP was blown out by Johnson and then they ran Nixon in 68 as a kind of moderate.
posted by humanfont at 7:34 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Now I know the hornet's nest can be nasty and the hate is hard to bear.

Try to imagine how this might read to the women or POC dealing with actual abuse, harassment, and real bodily fear as a result of all of this, and then maybe think about apologizing.

It's all just words to you, but it's assault to someone else. It's stochastic terrorism. And besides the increase in hate crimes we've already seen, I would be surprised if we didn't see a huge spike in gendered violence, too. (Not sure we track it that way yet?)

Anyway. Perhaps lectures are best left to people who have their own skin in the game.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:37 AM on October 15, 2016 [65 favorites]


I'm not so much worried about revolution - though the prospect of assassination attempts seems terrifyingly possible.

What gets to me:

a) for the first time since I was a teenager (the 80's, when we all basically thought we were going to die in a nuclear war), I have to worry about nuclear war (thanks, Russian!Trump)

and b) relying on the polls for comfort, when there are so many reports of voter suppression in swing states and so many reports of Russia trying to influence the election.

I mean, the polls can be totally on point -- but if enough votes are suppressed or enough records screwed with, we could "lose" without really losing, right? And then there's Trump's Mirror - if he's accusing our side of doing something, there's a 100% certainty he's doing it himself. What if the fix is in, as he says - but for him, not for Hillary?

For most of the past several months I've felt... I don't know. I feel mentally ill on this subject. I'm worried about so many things this election cycle that I would have laughed off in any other, and the worry feels both ridiculous and legitimate. And the worse Trump's numbers get, the more I worry.
posted by invincible summer at 7:37 AM on October 15, 2016 [22 favorites]


You know what's fucked up? Coming to MeFi for a sense of solidarity and community during the most terrifying election of our lifetimes, and instead having to beat back more condescending, minimizing, dismissive shit.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:40 AM on October 15, 2016 [41 favorites]


Trump will be in Maine today.

Maine.

Reports that he will be in Guatemala tomorrow are unconfirmed.
posted by petebest at 7:41 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


Last I checked, the Mefi call team is #1 (sorry for the poor quality of pic)- let's keep up the good work! Link to join the Mefi call team.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:41 AM on October 15, 2016 [16 favorites]


But this is like the emotional turmoil, the big family fight, right before the abuser finally gets kicked out of the house. He promises he'll have his revenge, he's going to make everyone suffer.

Finally, if you actually knew anything about this at all, you'd know this is the time when you're most likely to be actually fucking murdered.

But don't be fainthearted.

Try to imagine my reaction to that.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:43 AM on October 15, 2016 [77 favorites]


This whole idea of Trump's Angry Idiots representing an existential threat to our nation is a step backwards.

Charles Kurzman and David Schanzer: The Growing Right-Wing Terror Threat
If you keep up with the news, you know that a small but steady stream of American Muslims, radicalized by overseas extremists, are engaging in violence here in the United States.

But headlines can mislead. The main terrorist threat in the United States is not from violent Muslim extremists, but from right-wing extremists. Just ask the police.

In a survey we conducted with the Police Executive Research Forum last year of 382 law enforcement agencies, 74 percent reported anti-government extremism as one of the top three terrorist threats in their jurisdiction; 39 percent listed extremism connected with Al Qaeda or like-minded terrorist organizations. And only 3 percent identified the threat from Muslim extremists as severe, compared with 7 percent for anti-government and other forms of extremism.
[...]
An officer from a large metropolitan area said that “militias, neo-Nazis and sovereign citizens” are the biggest threat we face in regard to extremism. One officer explained that he ranked the right-wing threat higher because “it is an emerging threat that we don’t have as good of a grip on, even with our intelligence unit, as we do with the Al Shabab/Al Qaeda issue, which we have been dealing with for some time.” An officer on the West Coast explained that the “sovereign citizen” anti-government threat has “really taken off,” whereas terrorism by American Muslim is something “we just haven’t experienced yet.”
posted by zombieflanders at 7:48 AM on October 15, 2016 [53 favorites]


@ditzkoff
if you're accused of multiple sexual assaults, a strange thing to say is, "If I *were* going to do it, it wouldn't be with that person"


Yes, isn't this about as transparent and ridiculous as the time OJ wrote, "If I did it"?
posted by krinklyfig at 7:51 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


Of course, the threat was evident from at least 2009, when the conservative noise machine succeeded in making the DHS retract an analysis noting a sharp rise in right-wing domestic terrorist activity. The pressure from conservatives continued until they eventually gutted the unit focused on domestic terror.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:54 AM on October 15, 2016 [67 favorites]


Also, bringing in that Gilbertthrope witness placed him in the airplane next to her. He could easily have just said she's crazy and made it up entirely but he decided to go with "I was definitely there but I didn't grope her." It is beyond bizarre.
posted by gatorae at 7:56 AM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]


Just now on AM Joy she played clips of Trump surrogates making their absurd Beyoncé defense on other networks. Then the camera returns to her and she says, "okay." Then she pulled a glass of lemonade from under her desk and started stiring it. Then they went to a wide shot and all her guests have glasses of lemonade too.
posted by humanfont at 7:57 AM on October 15, 2016 [123 favorites]


Morning Joy's name is so literal today.
posted by Talez at 7:58 AM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]


My wife and I are going to skip it because the second debate cost us sleep and a measure of sanity. It'll be interesting to see how much the audience drops; I'm going to presume that will be the main reason.

I highly recommend doing this to anyone who feels the need for self care, or who just can't stand to watch the Orange Goblin abuse Clinton again. I've been a political junkie since high school, and I have not watched a single debate which included Donald. The closest I came was listening to a live stream during the primaries, and only for maybe 30 minutes. I do not regret this decision, and I still keep up with all the details and election news while maintaining my own bit of sanity, or whatever's left of it.
posted by krinklyfig at 7:59 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


When you can't even get Reek to show up, you are Royally fucked.
posted by mikelieman at 7:59 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Is it just AM Joy, or have other shows lost their Ttump spokescritters too?
posted by Devonian at 8:00 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Then she pulled a glass of lemonade from under her desk and started stiring it. Then they went to a wide shot and all her guests have glasses of lemonade too.

That is the best thing ever. Both Beyoncé and Al Roker must be proud.

So glad people here are helping to bring these moments to those of us with no TV or poor internet access. I owe you all a lemonade or three, or margarita.
posted by krinklyfig at 8:08 AM on October 15, 2016 [12 favorites]


This whole idea of Trump's Angry Idiots representing an existential threat to our nation is a step backwards.

Beyond the threat of individuals acting out, what Trump is doing is undermining democracy and the peaceful transition of power. Social mores and faith in the system is what girds American democracy, not a piece of paper, and Trump is destroying both.

And if you think he won't go even further than already calling for his opponent to be jailed, calling the election rigged, calling for the media to be shut down, I'll just ask when has he ever not gone lower? This is a man who called for revolution repeatedly the night Romney lost. You think he's going to be better when he loses?
posted by chris24 at 8:11 AM on October 15, 2016 [44 favorites]


I seem to recall people talking about getting together emergency kits with water, canned food, etc. and making go bags for the inevitable violent backlash when Obama was elected, too. It didn't get that far then, and I don't think it'll get that far now.

(Stock up on emergency supplies anyway so you're prepared for the next natural disaster. And check your smoke alarms.)
posted by blnkfrnk at 8:15 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Also, bringing in that Gilbertthrope witness placed him in the airplane next to her.

On the other hand, that's not very difficult to back away from, since "Gilby" is not exactly known to be a reliable witness.
posted by effbot at 8:17 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Beyond the threat of individuals acting out, what Trump is doing is undermining democracy and the peaceful transition of power.

He's inciting the mob, and like a coward, he will deny responsibility for what the mob does once it's unleashed.

The man is disturbing my pacifism.
posted by Mooski at 8:17 AM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]


the inevitable violent backlash when Obama was elected, too. It didn't get that far then, and I don't think it'll get that far now.

McCain conceded and wasn't calling for people to rise up.
posted by chris24 at 8:18 AM on October 15, 2016 [29 favorites]


My concern is not for a national violent revolution. It's for individual small scale outbursts of violence. That's a revolution in the lives of those who are injured and killed and their loved ones, and I am not comfortable with minimizing that.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:19 AM on October 15, 2016 [60 favorites]


Gloria goddamn Steinem on AM Joy talking about Michelle Obama, and how she may have succeeded in changing people's consciousness, and how control of reproduction is essential to hierarchy, and how masculinity is like a drug.

God I do hope this is the beginning of a sea change.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:20 AM on October 15, 2016 [80 favorites]


I was going to turn up for the third debate even though it raises my blood pressure mightily, because if Hillary can show up and dismantle that goon so calmly and coolly in the face of all this insanity then dammit, I'm going to watch in support of her. But I've got a math test that night. I'm sorry to have to miss it but I'm sure I'll be spending the next day watching clips anyway so it's not like I'll escape it...
posted by palomar at 8:20 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


But headlines can mislead. The main terrorist threat in the United States is not from violent Muslim extremists, but from right-wing extremists. Just ask the police.

Thanks for posting that.

Of course, the threat was evident from at least 2009, when the conservative noise machine succeeded in making the DHS retract an analysis noting a sharp rise in right-wing domestic terrorist activity. The pressure from conservatives continued until they eventually gutted the unit focused on domestic terror.

The Southern Poverty Law Center has been tracking this stuff for a number of years (doing the work the US federal government is incapable of or prevented from doing). This list is pretty disturbing:

Terror from the Right.

Unfortunately, a variety of circumstances (Trump maybe being the final exhortation these folks need) have conspired to both arm and prime people for exactly the thing people are rightly worried about Trump fomenting in the instance of a Clinton victory:

After reading and lurking for a while, he needs to talk to someone about it, signing up as a registered user on a racist forum where he commiserates in an echo chamber of angry fellow failures where Jews, gays, minorities and multiculturalism are blamed for everything.

Assured of the supremacy of his race and frustrated by the inferiority of his achievements, he binges online for hours every day, self-medicating, slowly sipping a cocktail of rage. He gradually gains acceptance in this online birthing den of self-described “lone wolves,” but he gets no relief, no practical remedies, no suggestions to improve his circumstances. He just gets angrier.

And then he gets a gun.


It's not that their numbers are huge. But they're heavily armed, and they're strongly motivated to act.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:21 AM on October 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


The difference between the rhetoric now and at Obama's win is that the opposition party wasn't purposely fomenting violence. But I don't know what can be done. I'm not going to let fear of the outcome stop me from voting Clinton, and I don't think anyone else in this thread will, either. I appreciate people's concern and yes, terror, over what may come November 9th, but we can't control what may occur. We can only do that which makes us feel safer, which is different for every person's situation. I have felt consoled by all these threads until now, but I may have to step out as I feel my anxiety rising listening to people's very real concerns. I just can't cope, I can't control homegrown terrorism, and I'm voting for Clinton regardless.
posted by thebrokedown at 8:25 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]




Jon Ronson, The Elephant in the Room: A Journey into the Trump Campaign and the "Alt-Right". Ronson is used to dealing with conspiracy theorist fringe groups so the Trump campaign is definitely in his wheelhouse.

(And seriously Amazon -- you have a purchase history on me going back 20 years. Why did it take you two weeks to alert me to a new Jon Ronson book?)
posted by nathan_teske at 8:33 AM on October 15, 2016 [12 favorites]


Voters Up And Out Early In Battleground Ohio | Morning Joe | MSNBC

Maddow noted last night that early voting shows lower turnout in Cuyahoga County, which is apparently a typical democratic stronghold. Very interesting. Not sure what things are looking like in other parts of OH.
posted by cashman at 8:35 AM on October 15, 2016


I've really been enjoying the sign reports upthread, and recognize that not everyone may see this change. Is anyone else noticing this and what do you think it's about?

In the case of Clinton supporters, it's definitely fear of retaliation, in whatever form it may take. This has been a problem since the primaries, and for good reason.
posted by krinklyfig at 8:35 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


But this is like the emotional turmoil, the big family fight, right before the abuser finally gets kicked out of the house. He promises he'll have his revenge, he's going to make everyone suffer. But don't be fainthearted.

Statistics show that 75% of women who are murdered by their batterers are killed when they leave or after they leave the relationship.

That's one site out of millions of google hits. Argybargy, please come back to this thread when you've done your homework and are no longer tempted to spit out paternalistic garbage like the above comment into your online community.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 8:37 AM on October 15, 2016 [64 favorites]


"Good reason" meaning, there is reason Clinton supporters are fearful and overly cautious about openly displaying their political leanings. It's about survival in the face of a violent opposition.
posted by krinklyfig at 8:37 AM on October 15, 2016






Ha, bizarro GOP Senate candidate Jon Girodes (the one who suggested a KFC & watermelon event in Harlem, and sent a shirtless picture to a reporter) has just been arrested for rental fraud. (He kept renting out the same apartment and then canceling after getting the renters' deposit and not returning their money.)
posted by oh yeah! at 8:40 AM on October 15, 2016 [68 favorites]


Maddow noted last night that early voting shows lower turnout in Cuyahoga County, which is apparently a typical democratic stronghold. Very interesting. Not sure what things are looking like in other parts of OH.

Anecdata, but my best friend and her husband live in Cuyahoga County and when I asked her if she was going to vote early she said that there is no early voting at her polling location.
posted by palomar at 8:40 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Also: After 9/11 I felt that the strongest response would be to make a few security adjustments, make some public renewals of our belief in due process and free expression of religion, and keep on trucking. Just deprive the spark of its oxygen and kindling and move along. I feel the same thing here.

And after 9/11, instead of "a few security adjustments" we got the NSA, instead of "public renewals of our belief in due process" we got Gitmo, and instead of "free expression of religion" we got Islamophobia.

What in the HELL makes you think that we'd do better now?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:42 AM on October 15, 2016 [13 favorites]




Maddow noted last night that early voting shows lower turnout in Cuyahoga County, which is apparently a typical democratic stronghold. Very interesting. Not sure what things are looking like in other parts of OH.

Overall, the number of requested absentee ballots is down by 2.6% in Ohio. Cuyahoga County alone has it down by 16%, although officials say they expect the eventual turnout in the county to match that of 2012. Whether it's cause for concern or not, I have no idea.
posted by the cydonian at 8:45 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


And after 9/11, instead of "a few security adjustments" we got the NSA, instead of "public renewals of our belief in due process" we got Gitmo, and instead of "free expression of religion" we got Islamophobia.


Agreed that those were all the wrong responses.
posted by argybarg at 8:48 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Taking Trump voters’ concerns seriously means listening to what they’re actually saying

Great article.
posted by cashman at 8:48 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


I’m not sure what words to use, but there’s something profoundly evil about the Trump campaign at this point, and the people he attracts to it. And I think that’s the right word to use.
- Nate Silver

[Real]
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:50 AM on October 15, 2016 [85 favorites]


...my best friend and her husband live in Cuyahoga County and when I asked her if she was going to vote early she said that there is no early voting at her polling location.

As far as I know, there's only one location to do early in-person voting in Cuyahoga County: the county board of elections office, downtown, sort of an expedition into unknown territory for an awful lot of county residents. I suppose that's why all the video reports on early voting in Cleveland show the same scene.
posted by Western Infidels at 8:51 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


I think what will save America from the post-Trump Trumpists is the demographics, pure and simple. A lot of right-wing politics isn't explicitly about identity, especially the economic side, but a very great deal is - and in a functioning democracy that's not a natural fit for a diverse population.

Which is why, of course, there's so much effort spent by the right in perverting the course of democracy - the gerrymandering, voter suppression and so on - and why it's most prominent where the threat to right-wing identity politics is strongest. It's why the poisonous right wing media are doing so well; it's one of the few working weapons left for them to use.

It's also why the desperation of the right is growing and the atmosphere so unsettling. It would always have been like this, though. These people know they're losing, they know the climate is changing, they know there's no stopping the rise of the political sea that laps around their shining Mar-A-Lago, and they know they're going to lose the war. No wonder they're behaving like desperate people.

The war isn't over, of course, and there are many bad things that could happen. But short of active suppression of huge numbers of people in ways that the political framework is designed to prevent, the final emasculation of the far-right is not in doubt. If - and it's a very important if - the progressives keep up the fight with all their energy, all their vision and all their will.

The war is there to be won.

(I wish I could say the same about the UK. Meanwhile, the loudest sound coming out of The Original Mr Brexit's beerhole is that of frantic backpeddling. Mr Farage, he not happy with Mr Trump.)
posted by Devonian at 8:52 AM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]


A fun video from Australia showing Hillary's lighter side when she was Secretary of State (via the Hillary Clinton subreddit).

FUCK YES A CLINTON INTERVIEW WITH HAMISH AND ANDY
posted by iffthen at 8:53 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Agreed that those were all the wrong responses.

And that is exactly my point, that "depriving the spark of its oxygen and kindling and moving along" did not work. So your advocating using that approach again strikes me as puzzlingly naive.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:58 AM on October 15, 2016 [14 favorites]


I do not see Hillary Clinton as a victim. She has invisible chain mail, does not even make a whisper, she is poised and on point. I watch the debates because I find them satisfying, because they really demonstrated who is who. She is a candidate for president, Trump is trying to raise money for his failing businesses, and establish ties to the Russian market. He is working on pulling up stakes in the US, because his credit ratings have to be awful for getting mega loans. He is a gangster, and looks that way. It doesn't matter how many sycophants he trots out, he has no interest in the process of government, fealty to acceptable social standards, his attention span stretches to the space between his hand and his pocket, his hand and his mouth, his hand and other people's property. The debates are fascinating in that one debater is clearly fit for office, and the attendant struggle to maintain focus on the needs of the governed. The other candidate is not even there, with information, plans, thoughts, or skill, he is there in a reflexive sense, backing up his poses, if he can even remember them long enough.
posted by Oyéah at 8:58 AM on October 15, 2016 [22 favorites]


Only that's not what we did. We fed in tons of oxygen and kindling by overreacting. That was my point.
posted by argybarg at 8:59 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Re: Cuyahoga County - one thing that's fairly new (that neither the county BoE nor the state make very clear) is that "absentee" ballots include early voting in person, and you don't need to request them ahead of time if that's how you plan to vote. So that might be affecting the "requested" absentee ballots.

Also, Western Infidels is entirely correct, early voting in person for Cuyahoga happens only at the BoE building, 29th & Euclid. Early voting hours.
posted by soundguy99 at 9:08 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Josh Barro on MSNBC trying to figure out how to respond to gaslighting. "We just need this to be over so we can stop arguing about these stupid things."

Oh, Josh. That's not how it goes.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:10 AM on October 15, 2016 [16 favorites]


FUCK YES A CLINTON INTERVIEW WITH HAMISH AND ANDY

My favourite part is where George Negus says "if she ever applies for political asylum we should snap her up".
posted by Talez at 9:13 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


Transcript of H.O.'s campaign rally yesterday in Greensboro , North Carolina includes this bit: "Even a simple investigation would’ve shown these allegations against me, in just about all cases, it’s nonsense, it’s false." [emphasis added]

Some are quoting only the part I emphasized, sounding like he's admitting to sexual assault, but I disappointingly conclude that he's saying some investigations to "prove" them false would not be simple.

I prefer to believe that he thinks his behavior is OK as long as he reins it in sometimes.

why am i even parsing the words of a chump-change wanna-be dictator?
posted by morganw at 9:16 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I got my early ballot in the mail yesterday, and am about to sit down and fill it out.

Let's go.
posted by Superplin at 9:16 AM on October 15, 2016 [38 favorites]


I think the militias will be energized when Trump loses. I think lone gunmen will have their episodes. I'm terribly sad about that. But I do not believe we are watching a popular uprising or wave of bloodshed, or a fundamental shift into an insecure state.

No, we're not looking at an organized revolt. That has only happened twice in US history (1776 and 1861) and both times it was led by local / regional elites against a government that was perceived to be unresponsive to and unrepresentative of their local issues. That's not this.

This is the politics of backlash. And based on what's happened historically, I think we can expect to see local authorities engage in voter suppression in plausibly deniable ways (like strict and/or unequal application of registration and ID laws, various election day shenanigans, etc.), and to see more overt intimidation by non-state actors (the "poll-watching" type actions Trump has been darkly referencing).

Add to that online harassment and doxxing -- this is the lynch mob of the 20th century, with the same outcome: the punishment of minority voices that dare to speak out, the establishment of a chilling effect on speech, and the psychological catharsis and vindication of aggrieved white supremacists, who are able to overcome their own feelings of alienation by means of united action against a perceived enemy. This will continue after Election Day, partially because of the goading of Trump and his media allies at Breitbart et al., but also because the election of Hillary Clinton will be felt as a further alienation from the federal government and from the "unrecognizable" American society of 2016.

The next level of violence is public attacks on community symbols. We see this already, too -- at Mother Emmanuel, at countless black churches and synagogues and mosques that have been vandalized or torched or shot up in the last few years. We'll almost certainly continue to see this kind of activity. Will it escalate from lone-wolf actions to small groups committing more significant mass shootings and/or bombings? I don't know but I wouldn't rule it out.

Historically, these moments of societal change have led to important permanent steps forward toward equality, but have been followed by a period of weariness in the national consciousness and conservative regrouping at local and state legislatures. The most obvious example is Reconstruction, when the South was under martial law and multiracial progressive governments were set up by the occupying Union Army. However, Congress and the North basically gave up after a few years and allowed low-level terrorism to suppress minority voting to the extent that white rule was reestablished under the southern Democratic Party. And of course we know that an echo of this happened after the civil rights movement in the 60s as well with the resegregation of American cities into "urban" and "suburban" areas.

I haven't said anything about violence against women here, because frankly I don't know enough about how the backlash to feminism at a political level works.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:18 AM on October 15, 2016 [42 favorites]


Utah's mail in ballots don't come out until exactly three weeks from the election.
posted by Oyéah at 9:19 AM on October 15, 2016






Leading Trump surrogate Sheriff Clarke now calling for mob violence. But yeah, don't worry, there's no real risk of violence. This isn't damaging at all.

@SheriffClarke
"It's incredible that our institutions of gov, WH, Congress, DOJ, and big media are corrupt & all we do is bitch. Pitchforks and torches time" [pic of mob holding torches, clubs and pitchforks]
posted by chris24 at 9:22 AM on October 15, 2016 [27 favorites]


One of the Hannity tweeters called Trump a "dirty welcher," now that is a highly sophisticated move here, citing coal dust on miners, and characterizing an entire area of Great Britain as people who don't pay their bills. The worst smear has to be associating them with Trump at all.
posted by Oyéah at 9:24 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Sherriff Clarke, this is golden lunatic fringe Clark, from north of the Mahleur? Great! Just great! Nope, nope, nope, differ'nt lunatic.
posted by Oyéah at 9:25 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Josh Barro on MSNBC trying to figure out how to respond to gaslighting. "We just need this to be over so we can stop arguing about these stupid things."

Ha ha, good luck to any media types still trying to spin a "both sides" narrative and appear vaguely attached to reality. This is your fault, you gormless fucks.
posted by Artw at 9:27 AM on October 15, 2016 [24 favorites]


Sherriff Clarke, this is golden lunatic fringe Clark, from north of the Mahleur

He's the guy who runs the Milwaukee County PD. That something like this is coming from someone with his amount of power (possibly including military hardware) is extremely dangerous territory.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:31 AM on October 15, 2016 [40 favorites]


From well upthread: what I don't get is why he's increasing the the hurt by behaving so gracelessly.

Because he's got exactly zero practice in losing a job to another, specific person, much less one he hates. He's never applied for a job in his life - never had to convince a group of HR personnel that he's the best-qualified applicant. He's had to convince boards of directors that he has an amazing business plan - and if they're not all convinced, he goes around them or over their heads or convinces enough of them that they'll pull the others through.

Sometimes, he can't do that; he doesn't win new business with every pitch he makes. But when he fails, it's "we're sorry, Mr. Trump, but the board has declined to go with your new hotel/casino/resort plan," not "we're sorry, but we're going with Mr. X's plan for a new casino in exactly the same place yours was going to be, with the same budget and management staff--and they'll be going out of their way to avoid all the marketing plans you wanted to use." And certainly, it's never, "we're going with Mrs. X's plan instead of yours;" in Trump's world, women are accessories, not agents.

He's acting like a petulant child because that was the only time in his life he got told, "no, you don't get to do that; this other person gets to do what they want instead." (Whether that was "pick the tv show to watch" or "get the first turn in the game.") That's the only behavior template he's got for this kind of situation.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:32 AM on October 15, 2016 [43 favorites]


I think what will save America from the post-Trump Trumpists is the demographics, pure and simple. A lot of right-wing politics isn't explicitly about identity, especially the economic side, but a very great deal is - and in a functioning democracy that's not a natural fit for a diverse population.

You can only believe this if you ignore the history of America.

The American identity has been remarkably fluid. At certain points the Scots, the Irish, Italians and Eastern Europeans were stigmatized out-groups before they become part of the central American identity. They went from being outsiders to in some cases being amongst the strongest enforcers of nationalist identity politics in just a generation or two (take a look at how over represented Scottish ancestry still is in North American policing). Trump's current strongest source of support is with white men of German ancestry.

The difference now is that we feel like the dividing lines are obvious - color, gender and sexual orientation but those ethnic dividing lines of yore were also 'obvious' to the people of that time.

I'd like to hope you are right and we are headed for better more inclusive times but history says we are probably heading for just the same problems but maybe different targets.
posted by srboisvert at 9:33 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


I agree with everything tivalasvegas wrote. And I think the damage to our discourse is going to be profound, and our ability to speak sensibly as a nation and continue our self-governance is going to be painful.

I also do not think Trumpism will prevail. I think this is a self-immolation on the part of a dying portion of our culture, and good riddance. I do not wish to paint 30-story-tall shadows on these losers, because that is precisely their wish. But I also do not underestimate their ability to harm.

I feel impending dread, and I feel impending triumph as the same time. I hope for us to find a way to feel collective triumph and righteous strength without negating the very realistic dread that many feel.
posted by argybarg at 9:36 AM on October 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


The Frontline doc on Trump was quite clear. He was sent to military school because he was physically violent and socially unrestrained. The man has not done an ounce of maturation since then.
posted by xyzzy at 9:37 AM on October 15, 2016 [38 favorites]


Leading Republican strategist (McCain, Romney, Bush) Mike Murphy regarding this morning's Hillary should be jailed and the election is rigged tweet:

@murphymike
Trump is now attacking our Democracy. Any Elected R who doesn't condemn this anti-American thug will carry a moral stain forever. #cowards
posted by chris24 at 9:37 AM on October 15, 2016 [106 favorites]


i wasn't expecting this election to become an explicit referendum on toxic masculinity, but i guess expecting subtext from anything involving donald trump is a mug's game…

i'm not worried about open revolt but i do worry about the damage that a couple hundred john hinckley jr. types with AR-15s can do :(
posted by murphy slaw at 9:39 AM on October 15, 2016 [14 favorites]


I'm sitting here at my kitchen table after reading that tweetstorm from Jared Yates Sexton and if somebody had a heart rate monitor linked up to me they'd probably be getting ready to administer first aid. (Already I'm forcing it to drop with deep breathing I perfected to help myself survive in the past, never fear.)

I am scared.

Those of us who have been through domestic abuse know that logic doesn't really play a part in it. The abuser gets some random wild hair about some imagined slight and here we go again. For people who have convinced themselves that the media is rigged and the election will be stolen and the only antidote is violence, this all makes sense. It is self-fulfilling logic. If you hate women or black people and need someone to take out your frustration on, you're going to see those bitches or those n______ stealing from you wherever you go.

And as those of us who have been through abuse know, being optimistic does not help. Hanging tight does not help. It only emboldens abusers whose worldviews are constructed and reinforced from a place of abuse.

I am scared and I don't recognize what I see around me and I am livid at the party and the candidate who have emboldened these fuckers. But I know, at the same time, that they have been here all the time, operating with their skewed logic, waiting for information and social currency to feed their self view.

Sorry if this is incoherent. I keep seeing people say "it's okay, check out of the election" but for me it's a matter of hypervigilance, of wanting to know my enemy, so to speak, and to witness what is happening so I can name it.
posted by mynameisluka at 9:40 AM on October 15, 2016 [73 favorites]


That feeling when someone posts something so utterly ridiculous that it must be a silly joke, but it's supposedly Trump's polling analysts showing off their sophisticated modelling methods...

Nate Silver comments.
posted by effbot at 9:40 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Politico: Trump's Bizarre Descent into Vitriol

"As his humiliation deepens and his personal brand is further tarnished, he seems intent only on degrading American politics and exacting revenge on the media he believes are conspiring to prevent him from winning the White House."
posted by tzikeh at 9:41 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Remember the conversation upthread about how Ryan's vote in a hypothetical tie isn't a coup and thus not a subversion of the Constitution? Well, we've heard nothing from Ryan on what Trump and Clarke and their supporters are calling for. Nor McConnell, for that matter. At what point does their silence equal an abdication of their duty to uphold the Constitution?
posted by zombieflanders at 9:42 AM on October 15, 2016 [14 favorites]


At what point does their silence equal an abdication of their duty to uphold the Constitution?

That Ryan and McConnell and every Republican are not being asked every day if they think the election is rigged is another cataclysmic failure of the press.
posted by chris24 at 9:44 AM on October 15, 2016 [41 favorites]


I'm gobsmacked that Clarke hasn't been fired yet.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:47 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Trump just said he wanted them both to take a drug test prior to the debate.
posted by Talez at 9:47 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


I've really been enjoying the sign reports upthread, and recognize that not everyone may see this change. Is anyone else noticing this and what do you think it's about?

I've mentioned before that because my (white, middle-class) family has the social and financial capital to bear the risks of sporting a Clinton/Kaine yard sign/car magnet/etc, we do. Our town is a mix of older, white, former auto workers and their descendants, and an increasing number of families of color, immigrants, etc. So, there are many, many folks in my area who lack the financial and social privilege to feel/be safe in doing so, but we can - for example, my older, white neighbors bring up my (losing) Jeopardy! appearance almost every time I see them, so we're like celebrities for a two-block radius.

Because of some street maintenance being done in our neighborhood yesterday, I had to take a different route to the store than I usually do. Friends, I saw a block where 4 of the 10 or so houses were sporting Trump signs, 1 had a Johnson sign, and there were 0 for Clinton. If I were a Clinton supporter on that block, even I of the relative security would be hard-pressed to put up a sign or rock a bumper sticker.

But I am hopeful that putting up my yard sign when I did has been like an anti-Trump sign prophylactic for our block at least. There are none on my street, even though many of my neighbors are prime candidates to be Trump supporters (eg, older, white, HS education, legacy middle-class) Whether this is because they wouldn't have bothered anyway, or they don't wish to piss off the folks that clear their sidewalks and driveways when it snows, or don't want to have Jeopardy! lady think they're stupid or whatever: the three blocks where I have seen Clinton signs in my neighborhood have no Trump signs, whereas the Trump signs tend to clump together in twos and threes on other blocks.

Nevertheless, every day I check to see whether my sign has been stolen or our cars keyed. So far, so good, but the anxiety is there. I don't know whether my sign has actually helped people feel safer in their own neighborhood, but I hope, I hope.
posted by palindromic at 9:47 AM on October 15, 2016 [11 favorites]


One of Trump's surrogates on CNN is peddling the rigged election theory. Zero pushback from the reporter or the political commentator who earlier stated that the choice was between a corrupt politician and a crazy person.
posted by xyzzy at 9:48 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Eliot Weinberger, for the London Review of Books: "Who Won’t Be Voting for Trump".
posted by MonkeyToes at 9:48 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


And the civil war continues...

Donald Trump camp rebukes Ohio GOP Chair Matt Borges, cuts ties

"Underscoring the searing divisions over Donald Trump within the Republican Party, Trump’s Ohio campaign today disassociated itself with state GOP Chairman Matt Borges because of his lack of support for the party’s presidential nominee.

Trump “is very disappointed in Matt’s duplicity,” Trump’s Ohio director, Robert Paduchik, told the GOP’s state central committee in an extraordinary letter today — a mere 24 days from the election."
posted by chris24 at 9:49 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


Trump just said he wanted them both to take a drug test prior to the debate.

So clearly the amphetamine rumors are true. #TrumpsMirror
posted by chris24 at 9:50 AM on October 15, 2016 [40 favorites]


I'm gobsmacked that Clarke hasn't been fired yet.

Clarke, like most Sheriffs, is an elected official. Who would fire him? Often a county Sheriff is accountable to nobody but the voters, the Feds, or the Governor/AG of the state.
posted by dis_integration at 9:50 AM on October 15, 2016


US Senator Jeff Sessions:

@hollybdc
Jeff Sessions: “They are attempting to rig this election"
posted by chris24 at 9:54 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


I keep seeing people say "it's okay, check out of the election" but for me it's a matter of hypervigilance, of wanting to know my enemy, so to speak, and to witness what is happening so I can name it.

Not just you, mynameisluka. I expressed the same thing a few days ago in another thread. Paying attention feels like self-protection and self-destruction at the same time.

On another note, Trump's response to the sexual assault stories has been and continues to be "That's not who I am as a person. That's not how I've lived my life." At this point, I'm convinced what he's actually saying is "Heh, you don't know the half of it." But he still has the megalomaniac's confidence that he's smarter and more powerful than everyone else and can keep it all hidden. The one thing that makes me feel better is I don't think he can.
posted by mudpuppie at 9:58 AM on October 15, 2016 [16 favorites]


US Senator Jeff Sessions:

Would it be hyperbole to suggest this shit amounts to impeachable offense?

What am I saying, there are still people who venerate Jesse Helms.
posted by Mooski at 10:00 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


probably they take efforts to strike down racist voter restriction laws such as NC's as prima facie evidence of "rigging" the election
posted by thelonius at 10:00 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


I am despondent at Paul Ryan's failure to do even the smallest, easiest bit of the right thing. Be a fucking human being.
posted by sallybrown at 10:02 AM on October 15, 2016 [54 favorites]


Clarke, like most Sheriffs, is an elected official. Who would fire him? Often a county Sheriff is accountable to nobody but the voters, the Feds, or the Governor/AG of the state.

Perhaps "removed from his position by a higher-up" works better. In any event, he's a member of law enforcement advocating for overthrowing a lawfully-elected government. I feel like seditious speech would warrant at least a suspension, if not a removal pending federal charges.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:03 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


WaPo (from June, but I imagine super-relevant considering FLOTUS's speech this week): What’s on Michelle Obama’s mind? Meet the speechwriter who puts it into words.

Her name is Sarah Hurwitz.
posted by tzikeh at 10:05 AM on October 15, 2016 [18 favorites]


Quickie transcript of the drug test comments, any mistakes are mine, I really don't know where to put punctuation to make it make sense:

"Lotta things going on folks, lotta things. I think she's actually getting pumped up if you want to know the truth. She's getting pumped up, you understand. In fact, we're going to be talking about that in a few minutes, she's getting pumped up for Wednesday night. Let's see, you know, I don't know. Maybe we're like athletes, right? Hey, look, I beat 17 senators, governors, I beat all these people, we're like athletes. Hillary beat Bernie although it looked like Bernie got a little bit of a bad deal based on wikileaks, right? If you look at wikileaks. But we're like athletes, right? So athletes, there making them more and more, but athletes, they make them take a drug test, right? I think we should take a drug test prior to the debate. I do. I think we should, why don't we do that? We should take a drug test prior, cause I don't know what's going on with her. But at the beginning of her last debate she was all pumped up at the beginning and at the end it was like come, take me down. She could barely reach her car. So I think we should take a drug test, anyway I'm willing to do it."
posted by peeedro at 10:08 AM on October 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


The Most Important WikiLeaks Revelation Isn’t About Hillary Clinton

Froman, an executive at Citigroup, which would ultimately become the recipient of the largest bailout from the federal government during the financial crisis, had mapped out virtually the entire Obama cabinet, a month before votes were counted... Many liberal pundits have talked about the need to focus exclusively on Donald Trump.... But there are consequences to the kind of home-team political atmosphere that rejects any critical thought about your own side. If the 2008 Podesta emails are any indication, the next four years of public policy are being hashed out right now, behind closed doors. And if liberals want to have an impact on that process, waiting until after the election will be too late. [...]

The wing of the Democratic Party concerned about personnel decisions made its opinion known almost two years ago. Dan Geldon, now chief of staff to Senator Elizabeth Warren, met with Dan Schwerin, a top adviser to Clinton’s campaign, in January 2015. According to an email follow-up with Podesta and others, Geldon “was intently focused on personnel issues, laid out a detailed case against the Bob Rubin school of Democratic policy makers.” He was also “very critical of the Obama administration’s choices.”

The “Bob Rubin school” is named for the former top executive at Goldman Sachs and Citigroup and first Clinton administration Treasury secretary. It is composed precisely of the kinds of Democrats that the Warren wing opposes on domestic policy, particularly on financial matters. In the Obama administration, that school won out. Froman, chief of staff to Rubin at Treasury, gave options for Treasury secretary that ranged from Rubin himself to Summers and Geithner, two of his key protégés. In another 2008 email Rubin imagined for himself a “Harry Hopkins” position in the Obama administration, referring to Franklin Roosevelt’s top adviser.

The Rubin school dictated the Obama administration’s light-touch policy on bank misconduct (which resulted in no serious legal or fiduciary consequences for the major players) and its first-term approach to the financial crisis (which was defined by a stimulus package that even at the time was criticized for being woefully inadequate, as well as a premature turn to budget-cutting). These are exactly the flaws that Geldon, Warren’s emissary, stressed. According to Schwerin, he “spoke repeatedly about the need to have in place people with ambition and urgency who recognize how much the middle class is hurting and are willing to challenge the financial industry.”

Around the same time as that meeting with Geldon, the Clinton campaign was setting up a dinner meeting with its economic policy team, Geithner, Summers, and members of the investment firm Blackstone (along with Teresa Ghilarducci, a retirement security researcher). [...]

Which side will win? The rank and file can actually have a voice in this, to make it known what personnel decisions would be acceptable or unacceptable. They can’t do it by ignoring evidence or sitting on their hands. The demand to only hold one thing in your head at a time—that Trump must be stopped—would squander this opportunity.

posted by johnasdf at 10:10 AM on October 15, 2016 [19 favorites]


So what's the shortest time period you can spend detoxing from speed and still pass a pee test?
posted by Artw at 10:10 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


If the GOP doesn't denounce this rhetoric and conspiracy theories, this is looking more and more like they're OK with Trump being elected by any means possible, then will sorrowfully find an excuse to impeach him and install Pence ASAP.
posted by maudlin at 10:11 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


Hey, look, I beat 17 senators, governors, I beat all these people, we're like athletes. Hillary beat Bernie

And one of the consequences of that was she had a lot of recent experience in one-on-one debates and he had none and she kicked his ass in the debates.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:12 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


@TUSK81
.@BarbaraBoxer: "Presidential historians say this orchestrated strategy to undermine the legitimacy of the election..."

.@BarbaraBoxer: "...well before the votes are even counted is without parallel in American history—and dangerous to our democracy."
posted by chris24 at 10:14 AM on October 15, 2016 [28 favorites]


A new Trump victim, Cathy Heller, comes forward:
Their alleged encounter took place almost two decades ago – Heller believes the year was 1997 and she was at a Mother’s Day brunch – at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate. Heller, her husband, her three children and her in-laws were among dozens of families seated at big round tables in what she and a relative who spoke to the Guardian recall was an open lobby.

Trump made the rounds greeting members of his club. When he stopped at their table, Heller recalled, and her mother-in-law introduced her, she stood and extended her hand.

“He took my hand, and grabbed me, and went for the lips,” she claimed.

Alarmed, she said she leaned backwards to avoid him and almost lost her balance. “And he said, ‘Oh, come on.’ He was strong. And he grabbed me and went for my mouth and went for my lips.” She turned her head, she claims, and Trump planted a kiss on the side of her mouth. “He kept me there for a little too long,” Heller said. “And then he just walked away.”

“I was angry and shaken,” she continued. “He was pissed. He couldn’t believe a woman would pass up the opportunity.” She added that he seemed to feel “entitled” to kiss her.
posted by sallybrown at 10:15 AM on October 15, 2016 [44 favorites]


Don’t Let Trump’s Toxic Masculinity Overshadow Hillary’s Historic Achievement
There’s no sadder commentary about gender politics in America today than the fact that the likely election of the first female president has become a horrific display of toxic masculinity. Hillary Clinton is on the verge of shattering the biggest glass ceiling in American politics, yet her rival has made the race all about male privilege and excess. This is not an accident. It’s a product of political choices made not just by Donald Trump, but by the Republican Party that has made him its standard-bearer.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:15 AM on October 15, 2016 [39 favorites]


> "... this is looking more and more like they're OK with Trump being elected by any means possible, then will sorrowfully find an excuse to impeach him and install Pence ASAP."

I'm sure there were plenty of people in the German government who were sure they could push out that Hitler chap again if he ever got out of hand.
posted by kyrademon at 10:16 AM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]




Right now he's not going to be elected, so it's looking like they'll do anything to disrupt the next administration rather than anything to win - and that includes embracing violence on a level unseen even during the tea party era.
posted by Artw at 10:18 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Jon Ronson, The Elephant in the Room: A Journey into the Trump Campaign and the "Alt-Right". Ronson is used to dealing with conspiracy theorist fringe groups so the Trump campaign is definitely in his wheelhouse.

(And seriously Amazon -- you have a purchase history on me going back 20 years. Why did it take you two weeks to alert me to a new Jon Ronson book?)


One of last week's episodes of Slate's Trumpcast has an interview with Ronson, who goes into Alex Jones and his relationship with Trump. Ronson seems oddly fond of Jones. Very interesting interview, especially if you were a fan of Them.

Warning: every episode of Trumpcast includes a Trump impersonator reading some of his worst tweets from the last few days. I just grip the steering wheel a bit tighter during that part.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:20 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


I skip the tweets in Trumpcast. They were mildly funny in the beginning, but I can't even laugh at this shit any more – and hearing Trump's voice (even impersonated) is not good for me.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 10:25 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


To follow up my thought about Paul Ryan...as much time as I spend loudly criticizing my country, and as many things as I think the U.S. has gotten wrong over the years - the people at home and abroad whom we have gravely mistreated and killed - I still feel truly, spectacularly blessed to be a member of this country. And as part of that, I feel a stewardship for this country. It's part of my responsibility to keep this country structurally sound. It's my duty as an American, something I owe to the generations of Americans who will come after me. It's hard for me to believe Paul Ryan, who's had the very rare experience of representing his country in our national government, with everything included in that (how much of this country he's seen, how many people he's met and talked to, how many issues he's learned about, the feeling of serving the public, even just the experience of being in the Capitol building so often), feels substantially different from me. In any other election, I could understand him taking politic, even duplicitous, steps and positions because he deeply believes his vision for this country will benefit it more than mine. But this election has become a very obvious threat to the continuity of our democracy. And I can't believe that someone who has lived the life he has can turn his face away like this. It is deeply shameful and unpatriotic.
posted by sallybrown at 10:26 AM on October 15, 2016 [20 favorites]




Lest anyone think the ugliness of the election doesn't bleed out into the rest of life, and that there aren't people who are empowered by Trump's hatefulness, I just got the following email from the office of the chancellor at the university I work for. It was sent to all faculty, staff, and students, something like 75,000 people.
Serious allegations about women being sexually assaulted on or near campus have come to my attention. The serious nature of these allegations leave me deeply concerned.... I urge everyone to learn about what constitutes sexual assault and the steps that bystanders can, and should, take. We must put an end to sexual violence.
posted by mudpuppie at 10:29 AM on October 15, 2016 [19 favorites]


I want people to shout "coward!" at Paul Ryan wherever he goes and for the rest of his life.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:29 AM on October 15, 2016 [33 favorites]



From PEC:

Presidential race:
State Margin Power
NH Clinton +5% 100.0
NV Clinton +3.5% 75.4
FL Clinton +4% 53.3
WI Clinton +4% 41.9
OH Clinton +3% 38.8
MN Clinton +6% 38.3
CO Clinton +3% 38.0
PA Clinton +7% 31.0
NC Clinton +1% 20.9
MI Clinton +8% 20.7
VA Clinton +10% 8.2
OR Clinton +10% 8.1
IA Trump +2% 4.3
CT Clinton +12% 2.2
AK Trump +4% 2.0
NJ Clinton +15% 0.11991
posted by petebest at 10:30 AM on October 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


I think we should take a drug test prior to the debate.

How about after?
posted by wilko at 10:31 AM on October 15, 2016 [23 favorites]


> "A new Trump victim, Cathy Heller, comes forward ..."

I've noticed that so far, only the most credible of victims have come forward. Women who had witnesses, or told other people about what had happened long before the tape became public, or both.

And that's already a lot of women.

How many, many haven't even come forward because in their case it would be a he said/she said situation?
posted by kyrademon at 10:31 AM on October 15, 2016 [54 favorites]




If the GOP doesn't denounce this rhetoric and conspiracy theories, this is looking more and more like they're OK with Trump being elected by any means possible, then will sorrowfully find an excuse to impeach him and install Pence ASAP.
Poor Chuck Schumer. After more than a year of silence from me about fracking he heard from me again today. I told him that the reticence to denounce this rhetoric from both sides of the aisle contributes to uncertainty in the electorate and that I am straight up demanding that someone other than President Obama and the press speak to this more vocally.
posted by xyzzy at 10:36 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


Apologies if this has already been posted in one of the other election threads, but I really enjoyed this and recommend it to anyone who needs a quick pick-me-up:

Jezebel: Hillary Clinton's Most Charming Interview Ever
posted by littlecatfeet at 10:36 AM on October 15, 2016 [18 favorites]


Also, from the previous thread, not sure if it's been posted here:

Is Trump's Rise a Result of America Declaring War on Institutions That Make Democracy Possible?
Remember what Hannah Arendt said when she was talking about fascism and totalitarianism. She said thoughtlessness is the essence of totalitarianism. So all of a sudden emotion becomes more important than reason. Ignorance becomes more important than justice. Injustice is looked over as simply something that happens on television. The spectacle of violence takes over everything.

I mean, so it seems to me that we make a terrible mistake in talking about Trump as some kind of essence of evil. Trump is symptomatic of something much deeper in the culture, whether we’re talking about the militarization of everyday life, whether we’re talking about the criminalization of social problems, or whether we’re talking about the way in which money has absolutely corrupted politics. This is a country that is sliding into authoritarianism.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 10:38 AM on October 15, 2016 [28 favorites]


There's basically no chance he wouldn't weasel out of his drug test challenge in the ridiculous event Clinton took him up on it, but that's not the takeaway. The real thing to note here is that Trump accusing Clinton of being "pumped up" at the debates is the surest sign yet that he's on something when he goes up on stage to face her.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:40 AM on October 15, 2016 [71 favorites]


I wonder if there is anyone who can come forward who he as assaulted more recently than 10 years ago. If someone says that it happened, say, a year ago, that's really gonna have to make everyone dial back on the "changed man" tactic.

I can't see why he'd be such an serial assaulter and then suddenly stop in 2005. I hate for anyone to have to have suffered from him, but I find it hard to believe the string of incidents ends 10 years ago.
posted by sio42 at 10:41 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Muslim boy, 7, beaten onboard school bus in North Carolina because of Donald Trump’s hateful rhetoric: father
After Usmani's allegations were first reported by BuzzFeed News Tuesday, Weatherstone Elementary principal Timothy Chadwick told parents in a letter obtained by The News that school officials have launched an investigation. But, he noted, they have not been able to substantiate any of Usmani's claims.

"At this time, the information from the investigation does not support an altercation," Chadwick said. "No students who were interviewed witnessed an altercation. The bus driver did not witness an altercation. The child did not report the bus driver any injury."
THEN HOW DID HIS ARM GET SPRAINED.

At the end of the movie Cry Freedom, which is about the anti-apartheid activist Steve Biko, a list of political prisoners who died in jail scrolls up the screen, along with their date of death and the reported cause. There were some quite dangerous stairways in South African prisons at that time, apparently, if the number of people who tripped and fell to their death on them is any indication.

America, 2016.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:41 AM on October 15, 2016 [25 favorites]


This is really shocking, even by the standards of this election. I don't think Obama ever faced anything like this.

It's a cumulative effect. First, they had to "tolerate" or "suffer through" a black president. Now a woman? (And one with a sustained 24-year hate campaign at that?)
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:46 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


Wait a minute. Hillary is taking a drug that makes her sound reasonable and rational and on top of the facts? Where can I get some?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:48 AM on October 15, 2016 [85 favorites]


Post-dogwalking signage report: I live in a college town that went for Obama both times. Yards up and down the street in my neighborhood are clogged with signs for Democratic downticket candidates, but I see not one sign for any presidential candidate. Not a single one.
posted by HotToddy at 10:49 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Paul Ryan is like the Bizarro World Ben Wyatt.
posted by howfar at 10:50 AM on October 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


Ladies and gentlmen, with abject apologies, I give you the new Republican mascot - Donald Trunk. (twitter, picture, false, best, nc, GOP)

(still in awe of the Economist cover, which I think ranks with the finest 60s and 70s graphic art)
posted by Devonian at 10:52 AM on October 15, 2016 [11 favorites]


"At this time, the information from the investigation does not support an altercation," Chadwick said. "No students who were interviewed witnessed an altercation. The bus driver did not witness an altercation."

Jesus, they sent that out to everyone? It's shitty enough as a kid when people lie about you to your face and the adults buy it, but to then have it sent out in writing.... All they had to do was say they were investigating the situation.
posted by ghost phoneme at 10:54 AM on October 15, 2016 [11 favorites]


I skipped my heavy leg day for the last month out of time constraints. Today I understand better why the temptation to skip leg day and the importance of not skipping leg day. (No seriously, I fricking hurt). In other words, Paul Ryan is a weak, unprincipled man and I'm afraid I might be too.
posted by drewbage1847 at 10:58 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


Oh, I almost forgot--yesterday I got so far behind in the thread(s), and then had stuff to do out in the world, that it slipped my mind (because I'm a little obsessive and didn't want to post before getting to the end).

Anyway, my employer is a partner in a newish polling endeavor here in Arizona (document link), which released their first election poll results in August. At a meeting yesterday, it was announced that our next presidential (and statewide) election poll will be completed Tuesday, with results published on Wednesday. They didn't oversample Maricopa County, so they can't confirm in advance whether there will be reliable figures for the Arpaio/Penzone race, but in addition to the presidential race we'll have updated figures for McCain/Kirkpatrick.

I'm hoping Trump's war against the Republican Party will really help crumble the downballot candidates' races, too. Having AZ go for Clinton AND Kirkpatrick would be amazing, but the latter looks tough, so I'll happily take the former. For now.
posted by Superplin at 10:58 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


It really does appear to be going very Pete Tong for the orange octopus in Ohio, per Chris24 above.

Donald Trump's Ohio campaign manager on Saturday renounced its relationship with the Ohio Republican Party's top official, laying bare the long-simmering tensions over Trump's candidacy within the state GOP.

Bob Paduchik, a longtime campaign operative in Ohio, sent a two-page letter to the state GOP's central committee members on Saturday saying Ohio Republican Party Chairman Matt Borges no longer has a relationship with the campaign. The letter accuses Borges of exaggerating his relationship with Trump in media interviews, and undermining Trump's efforts to win in Ohio in order to advance his own candidacy to replace Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus.


So what does this mean? Will the Rerpublican voters in OH just stay home? Can there be a write-in?

This does look like a campaign not so much in free-fall as in a powered dive waiting to see if the wings come off before the ground comes up.
posted by Devonian at 11:01 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


It'd be better for Kirkpatrick to win than for Clinton to win AZ, since she'll be way past 270 by the time the blue tide hits your state. But yeah, it'd be great for Joe Arpaio to have to deal with the fact that he now lives in an officially Blue state. (Plus he might be in jail...)
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:03 AM on October 15, 2016 [11 favorites]


That Vox article on Trumpists is the most honest one I've read, but it leaves me feeling a single if a remedy cannot be found.
What’s needed is an honest reckoning with what it means that a large segment of the US population, large enough to capture one of the two major political parties, is motivated primarily by white nationalism and an anxiety over the fast-changing demographics of the country. Maybe the GOP will find a way to control and contain this part of its base. Maybe the racist faction of the party will dissipate over time, especially as Obama’s presidency recedes into memory. Maybe it took Trump’s celebrity to mobilize them at all, and future attempts will fail.

But Donald Trump’s supporters’ concerns are heavily about race. Taking them seriously means, first and foremost, acknowledging that, and dealing with it honestly.
Yay? I mean, in my life, the only way I've ever been able to shed prejudice or stereotypes is to hang out with people. As an atheist, I viewed the ultra-religious with disdain and wrongly assumed they were all hypocrites and anti-reality. Now that I've been exposed to some religious people through various means, I can honestly say that my assessment was prejudiced and deeply unfair. I still don't believe in God, but I won't dismiss someone out of hand just because they tithe and go to Church more than once a week.

But the impetus had to be on me to go be with people who scared me. I just don't see your average white nationalist going to a Mosque or a black Church or a Quinceañera. Such an action requires a willingness to be persuaded that I don't find evident in Trumpists.
posted by xyzzy at 11:03 AM on October 15, 2016 [15 favorites]


Swag report: I ordered up some gear after the last debate, and two button sets and a Woman Card for my lovely wife and daughters just arrived with today's mail.
posted by Gelatin at 11:04 AM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


scaryblackdeath: There's basically no chance he wouldn't weasel out of his drug test challenge in the ridiculous event Clinton took him up on it, but that's not the takeaway. The real thing to note here is that Trump accusing Clinton of being "pumped up" at the debates is the surest sign yet that he's on something when he goes up on stage to face her.

Man. I know I've said in the past that Trump wasn't on drugs, because of his life-long aversion due to his brother's death, and I really believed that. But Trump's Mirror is too thoroughly true for me to entirely do so anymore.

I wonder if the pressures of the campaign ended up driving him to it.
posted by tzikeh at 11:07 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


Hypernormalisation: Adam Curtis plots a path from Syria to Trump, via Jane Fonda

BBC iPlayer. (Only?) starts tomorrow. Clip in article. Probably best for people who aren't compulsive MeFi Election Megathread watchers, but hey. Could be good.
posted by petebest at 11:09 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


So what does this mean? Will the Rerpublican voters in OH just stay home? Can there be a write-in?

This does look like a campaign not so much in free-fall as in a powered dive waiting to see if the wings come off before the ground comes up.


I dunno, I think the difference between a solid Clinton win (somewhere between Obama '08 and Obama '12) and a true landslide with significant downballot knock-on effects will come down to ground game, and whether the Republicans' lack thereof and general discord between the party and the Trump campaign plus the Democrats' GOTV strength push the actual count significantly more Democratic than the polls are showing now. I can't imagine he has that much further to fall polling wise, unless there's still a tranche of evangelicals and/or suburban women who might stay home or whatever.

But all in all, I think we're pretty well baked in - I can't see the polling numbers changing too much between now and Election Day. Now it's just three more damn weeks of waiting.*

*I do realize I'm tempting the thing on the whatever up there or whatever it is I'm supposed to say right now

also, I know "Rerpublican" is a typo, but I kinda like it
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:10 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


I would think the even-more-Trump's-mirror is that he takes something prescribed by Dr. Doofus that he doesn't understand is an upper.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:10 AM on October 15, 2016 [26 favorites]


BuzzFeed Where Is Trump’s War On Media Headed?
Nobody is watching Trump’s war on the media — from chants denouncing CNN to legal letters to the Times — with more interest than the brave reporters already working under tough conditions in authoritarian countries. We asked several of them — from Venezuela to the Philippines to the former Soviet Union — about what it’s like to cover leaders who openly threaten to throw enemies in jail. And the answers we got were, well, pretty alarming.

“Get ready for anything,” the Azeri journalist Khadija Ismayilova told us in a recent interview. “Things you don’t imagine — sex tapes. Being kidnapped in the streets and getting beaten.”[...]
Reporters have another role, too, she said, recalling the story of a colleague who was kidnapped, beaten, and then released and ordered to write about his experience.

The press, that is to say, becomes “a tool for intimidation of the population,” she said.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:12 AM on October 15, 2016 [19 favorites]


"Oh no, I'm not taking speed, just a little Adderall prescription" [fake]
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:13 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


I was freaked out the other day about the San Antonio cops wearing Trump hats, and now we have Sheriff Clarke joining them and being even more inflammatory. I acknowledge that these are still isolated incidents. But. I am becoming more and more convinced that although there is mostly a danger of lone wolf actors committing violent acts when Trump loses, there is an increasingly non-zero chance that if something more organized were to occur, then the police are being groomed/encouraged to support it either actively by participating or passively by doing nothing to stop it. That's a lot of qualifiers, so I am not trying to be alarmist or a fear monger, but it seems that each week (or day!) I am observing more things that in years past were unthinkable.

I always rolled my eyes at the Second Amendment people who thought they needed guns to protect themselves from an overreaching federal government. The bitter irony is that, of course, now these people don't want to protect themselves but seem to want to actively overthrow the government. During the last 8 years the right has armed itself to the teeth in hysteria over Obama, and my dad has opined to me that the left should do the same to protect themselves from the right. I rolled my eyes at his paranoia; I am not a gun person and I have never wanted a gun in my home. But after the last couple of weeks, I am starting to wonder if he is right. A violent right v. left confrontation doesn't really feel like silly Second Amendment fantasyland anymore. These people are armed and dangerous and are actively recruiting the police to their cause. Do I think some nationwide violent revolution is likely? No. Probably not even possible. But the fact that localized incidents involving police officers feels not-impossible is gut wrenching. And, if we stay on this trajectory, who knows how much worse the discourse will be in another four years?

On AskMe whenever someone says their gut tells them that something is making them nervous, everyone cites to The Gift of Fear and tells them to listen to their instincts. Right now I'm having that feeling I usually get in dark parking garages when I decide to hang back until I can walk with a group of people. I never thought that I could feel this way about my country, and I'm really not sure what we can do. Voting for Hillary is not enough since if anything that will likely be a catalyst to these people. This shit is terrifying, and stuff like Sheriff Clarke's tweets, the San Antonio hats, the screaming fury at the Trump rallies, the gaslighting and scapegoating, preemptively delegitimizing the election, sowing massive distrust in the mainstream media, marrying extreme rightwing media to the campaign itself, calls to jail the media and political opponents and lawyers... together these are things that I can see people looking back on in 20 years and asking "Why didn't they see [horribleness] coming? It was so damn obvious."
posted by gatorae at 11:15 AM on October 15, 2016 [73 favorites]


Nobody's claiming to have been his coke dealer in 1981 yet, and that always has to happen at some point.

oh man i wonder how many trump secrets died with steve rubell. i wonder what kind of dirt ian schrager is sitting on.
posted by poffin boffin at 11:17 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


Bill Richardson is on CNN stating that he loves Podesta and doesn't care if Podesta referred to him as a dick in a hacked email, calling it actual locker room talk, politically speaking. I find this hilarious.
posted by xyzzy at 11:17 AM on October 15, 2016 [31 favorites]




WaPo Donald Trump isn’t going to like this new report about his campaign’s impact on his businesses
On Friday, the location-based app Foursquare released new data supporting that idea. The app, which allows its users to “check in” at locations they visit, shows that foot traffic to Trump-branded casinos, hotels and golf courses continues to be lower than it was before his candidacy, especially in blue states.[...]

[In Blue states] Foursquare data shows that the visit share to Trump properties in September 2016 was down 19 percent compared to two years prior,
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:19 AM on October 15, 2016 [10 favorites]


Trump surrogate on MSNBC, in response to the "wouldn't be my first choice" comment, says that it means "it didn't happen."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:20 AM on October 15, 2016


FWIW, Katy Tur is making mincemeat of this surrogate.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:21 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


Rick Hasen: (Literally) Waking Up to the Danger of Trump’s Vote Rigging Comments to Democracy
Trump has been making these statements for months, essentially claiming without any credible evidence whatsoever that racial minorities and labor unions in Democratic areas like Philadelphia will use voter impersonation. Trump’s comments are a natural outgrowth of the kind of voter fraud hysteria we’ve seen from some Republicans for the last decade and a half.
[...]
What can be done? Ned Foley nails it for what should happen if Trump fails to concede: “To my mind, what will be key is the conduct and statements of Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell as the leaders of the Republican party in Congress. If they publicly concede that Trump has lost, and the media appropriately reports the significance of their concession, the nation’s democratic system can take that as the requisite sign of closure, whatever antics Trump might engage in.”

But Ryan and McConnell need to STEP UP NOW. They should not be wimps. They should condemn this rhetoric as dangerous and say that we all, Democrats and Republicans and those of minor or no parties, support the rule of law. We will all accept the results of the election. And Donald Trump’s comments are dangerous and irresponsible.

And then after the election, maybe Republicans like Kit Bond, McConnell and Ryan can do some soul searching and call off the dangerous voter fraud rhetoric that got us here in the first place.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:22 AM on October 15, 2016 [19 favorites]


The BBC has an article about Egg! He's gone international.
posted by annsunny at 11:22 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


tivalasvegas: It'd be better for Kirkpatrick to win than for Clinton to win AZ, since she'll be way past 270 by the time the blue tide hits your state. But yeah, it'd be great for Joe Arpaio to have to deal with the fact that he now lives in an officially Blue state. (Plus he might be in jail...)

Unless things have changed a lot recently, Kirkpatrick has very slim chances of ousting McCain; for some reason, a lot of people still seem to think he's an honorable guy. He also has very high name recognition going for him.

My biggest worry is that, assuming Clinton does indeed already have the election in the bag early on, voter turnout will be low. We need to show up in huge numbers: that's how you really send a message that will be heard loud and clear, not by voting third party. Not to mention it's how you actually get rid of vile scum like Arpaio and, if nothing else, light a fire under McCain to let him know he can't assume he has a mandate among Arizona voters.
posted by Superplin at 11:22 AM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Donald's brother died of alcoholism, it would be very easy for Donald to justify prescription drugs for any use without even resorting to TrumpLogic™.

that's what terrifies me about this whole situation more than anything - the fact that he is not being shut down based on the ideas, but based on -him-. I can only predict that 2020 is going to be even uglier, with a more savvy candidate willing to espouse the same hateful and isolationist policies stepping in to fill the vacuum

This is the part where the Republican Party can be destroyed. The Party produced him, the Party doesn't have anybody better. The Party has delegitimized itself by foisting all of this on the nation. Like free speech, free elections mean a party can put up whoever they want, but that doesn't mean they won't get a reaction. If Republicans had any shame they would call it a wrap and choose a new name, even if it means we get a splinter party for the 88 crowd.

On that point I bet the FBI has been creaming their jeans as Donald has brought the white-man power crowd out of the shadows. The extremists say "finally, a voice for us!" while the spotlight warms up. It's like if the Democrats nominated the spokesperson for the Earth Liberation Front.
posted by rhizome at 11:23 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


>I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.

>Am I a bad person?

I seem to recall that in Steal This Book, Abbie Hoffman recommended taping a postage-paid card to a brick and dropping it in the mail. Less likely to be delivered, but more satisfying as a symbolic gesture, I guess.


Send them a Galaxy Note 7.
posted by pjern at 11:23 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


Send them a Galaxy Note 7.

I believe that qualifies as terrorism.
posted by MrVisible at 11:25 AM on October 15, 2016 [24 favorites]


“Trump said to watch you precincts. I’m going to go, for sure,” said Steve Webb, a 61-year-old carpenter from Fairfield, Ohio.

“I’ll look for . . . well, it’s called racial profiling. Mexicans. Syrians. People who can’t speak American,” he said. “I’m going to go right up behind them. I’ll do everything legally. I want to see if they are accountable. I’m not going to do anything illegal. I’m going to make them a little bit nervous.”


The good news is he doesnt know how to set his Facebook profile to private so he's had a very interesting saturday morning.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 11:25 AM on October 15, 2016 [56 favorites]


FWIW, Katy Tur is making mincemeat of this surrogate.

Boris Epshteyn is a terrible excuse for a human being.
posted by Talez at 11:26 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


@JoshuaHol GOP candidates are being outspent in key senate races...

@EmptyWheel It makes me weep that GOP is cash poor after 17 candidates spent record amounts of cash in primary only to pick Trump.


Politico Senate GOP faces late cash crunch

Democratic candidates and groups are set to spend more on TV ads in seven of eight key Senate states over the final four weeks.

Republicans say they are particularly concerned that Democrats will use their financial advantage to tie the GOP candidates to an increasingly toxic Trump, who is now besieged by numerous accusations of sexual assault. In the New Hampshire Senate race — where Democrats have seized on GOP Sen. Kelly Ayotte’s errant debate comment that Trump “absolutely” was a role model for children, which she hastily retracted — Democrats have booked nearly $16 million of TV airtime between Oct. 11 and Nov. 8, while Republicans have set aside over $12 million, according to a media tracking source. In Indiana, where another key contest is unfolding, Democrats are set to air over $7 million worth of commercials during the same time frame, while Republicans have booked around $4 million.

And in Pennsylvania, the gap is particularly large. Democrats, who tied Republican Sen. Pat Toomey to Trump in another new ad last week, have reserved $17 million of TV airtime there — more than double the $8 million Republicans are set to air.

It could get worse. As Hillary Clinton pulls away from Trump, Republicans are worried Democrats will shift resources down-ballot. The Democratic super PAC Priorities USA, which has been dedicated to electing Clinton, is considering investing in several Senate races.
I no longer believe that money wins races after seeing $100s of millions frittered away on useless campaigns like Jeb!'s and Meg Whitman's but let's hope it does some good.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:29 AM on October 15, 2016 [18 favorites]


People who can’t speak American

Does he mean, like, Algonquin? Navajo? There's quite a lot of American languages really
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:29 AM on October 15, 2016 [61 favorites]


The BBC has an article about Egg! He's gone international.

I think over there they call him a Royale with Muffin.
posted by cashman at 11:29 AM on October 15, 2016 [85 favorites]


Insightful, humorous and germane article in Cracked about this election being "Rurals vs. Cityfolk."
posted by rhizome at 11:31 AM on October 15, 2016 [5 favorites]


It's weird how news articles keep misspelling "domestic terrorists" as "militia members".
posted by ckape at 11:34 AM on October 15, 2016 [59 favorites]


The BBC has an article about Egg! He's gone international.

Any minute now he'll be a Scotch Egg.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:34 AM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


> Also can someone please photoshop a Trump themed cover of that NIN album? Because it's only one letter and Petty Hate Machine is totally his thing. TIA.

I lost count of how many times I saw “Juanita Broaddrick” in these threads and thought “wtf has Justin Broadrick got to do with this”
posted by farlukar at 11:36 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


That's a lot of qualifiers, so I am not trying to be alarmist or a fear monger, but it seems that each week (or day!) I am observing more things that in years past were unthinkable.

At this point, I'm assuming there will be violence of some kind after the election. I voiced this concern on Facebook, and others feel the same.

I've been putting serious thought into what I can do to prepare for unrest. Keeping some non-perishable food and five-gallon jugs of water on hand seems prudent even in normal times, but it's taken the insanity of this year for me to actually make a list and go to the store. I've done some light scrubbing of my Internet presence to remove the most egregious political stuff. And I've started an honest-to-God list of other prep to consider if things start looking worse.

This election has fucking turned me into a prepper. God, I hope I can look back and laugh at how silly I was being in October 2016.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 11:38 AM on October 15, 2016 [12 favorites]


I no longer believe that money wins races after seeing $100s of millions frittered away on useless campaigns like Jeb!'s and Meg Whitman's but let's hope it does some good.

I'm skeptical about the value of advertising in general but I think the problem in the primary was genuinely that Trump was bringing in a groundswell of Republican general election voters that typically hadn't voted in primaries before this year. So while traditional ads were maybe persuading the typical GOP primary electorate, Trumpists were already on the Deplorable Express and positioned to overtake the establishment candidates.

Let's not forget that the primary wasn't inevitably Trump's to win. Jeb, Marco, Chris, Carly and whatever other moderate [sounding] candidates there were stuck around for way too long and crowded up their own lane while Trump zoomed ahead in the white nationalist lane and Cruz did the same in the evangelical lane. But I think if four or five of these frontrunners had actually sat down and agreed to coordinate for the good of the party and nation, they could've gotten one of their own to come back.

The candidates, however, were too selfish to work together, too confident that their party wasn't fundamentally full of racists and misogynists, and too callous to care about what Trump would do to the nation.

In a hundred years, textbooks will give this example when explaining the tragedy of the commons.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:40 AM on October 15, 2016 [23 favorites]


> "I wonder if there is anyone who can come forward who he as assaulted more recently than 10 years ago."

Cassandra Searles says that in 2013, he "continually grabbed my ass and invited me to his hotel room".

An unnamed woman has said that in 2010, "Trump took Tic Tacs, suggested I take them also. He then leaned in, catching me off guard, and kissed me almost on lips. I was really freaked out. ... After (the meeting), Trump asked me to come into his office alone. Was really unsure what to do. ... Figured I could handle myself. Anyway, once in his office he kept telling me how special I am and gave me his cell, asked me to call him. I ran the hell out of there."
posted by kyrademon at 11:41 AM on October 15, 2016 [11 favorites]


I've said before that as bad as Trump and his campaign has been for the Republican Party, the awful reaction Trump and his supporters have to his loss will be more damaging to the Republican Party's future. Sadly, I see no reason to think differently.
posted by chris24 at 11:43 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


tivalasvegas: There also appeared to be the matter of SuperPACs and dark money calling the shots and adopting candidates with different names but similar potential constituencies or bases, instead of party leaders getting behind a single candidate, or coalescing behind one or two. But then the Koch brothers, who had an unfathomable amount of money to spend this year, never endorsed anybody, were undecided between five candidates, already. I haven't seen a good study or analysis of all this yet, however.
posted by raysmj at 11:53 AM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


The part about making her take a mint makes me cringe so hard: Making her minty fresh makes it more pleasurable for him to assault her.
posted by mochapickle at 11:55 AM on October 15, 2016 [16 favorites]


I think we might have talked about this before, sorry. But what do you guys do for people with no soliciting signs when you're out canvassing? I am pretty uncomfortable with knocking anyway like the campaign says to.
posted by gerstle at 11:55 AM on October 15, 2016


Insightful, humorous and germane article in Cracked about this election being "Rurals vs. Cityfolk."

That article got picked over pretty thoroughly in I think it was the last thread, but I think one thing the article doesn't take into account is the brain drain rural areas face when folks leave their hometowns, not only for the greater economic and cultural opportunities provided by cities, but to get the Hell away from the narow-minded, backwards redneck horse shit that festers in a lot of small town America. With "white flight" in the other direction adding to the divide, and to the narow-minded, backwards redneck horse shit.
posted by Trinity-Gehenna at 11:56 AM on October 15, 2016 [20 favorites]


That article also completely ignores rural areas that are predominantly non-white, and uses "rural" as basically a euphemism for "white" so as to shrug off the idea that this election might have anything whatsoever to do with race. Which is disingenuous to say the least.
posted by Sara C. at 11:58 AM on October 15, 2016 [23 favorites]


what do you guys do for people with no soliciting signs when you're out canvassing

Not an answer to your question, but I keep running into people who are annoyed that canvassers exist, and I want to strangle all of them.

ITS YOUR CIVIC DUTY TO VOTE. DONT BE MEAN TO PEOPLE JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE YOUR RIGHTS ARE RESPECTED JESUS CHRIST ON A GORRAM CRACKER
posted by Sara C. at 11:59 AM on October 15, 2016 [8 favorites]


We got into the No Soliticing signs thing pretty heavy about 20 threads ago.

In short, it's not fair to assume that people with No Soliticing signs are in any way less engaged in the political process than anyone else.
posted by mochapickle at 12:04 PM on October 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


It's weird how news articles keep misspelling "domestic terrorists" as "militia members".
If conservatives could just say the magic words "radical right-wing terrorism" we could do some extreme vetting and figure out what the hell is going on. They should call upon Republicans and conservatives to monitor their communities and contact the FBI if they become suspicious of their neighbors.
posted by xyzzy at 12:04 PM on October 15, 2016 [84 favorites]




Canvassers also exist outside the context of elections, let alone particularly notable ones, and so people have lots of opportunities to develop an abiding annoyance at the phenomenon, regardless of whether it's an effective tool or for a cause they might or might not otherwise agree with. Canvassing consists of to varying degrees willfully violating basic social expectations and then exploiting random people's willingness to be polite and accommodating in the fact of that violation. Even if it's for a good cause, it is inevitably gonna bother some folks, sometimes a lot.
posted by cortex at 12:07 PM on October 15, 2016 [41 favorites]



>I sent him a table napkin in the postage-paid envelope.

>Am I a bad person?


Y'see, I'd do that, but with a long smear of Marmite on it.

That would make me a very bad person. Plus, it could be construed much as sending random white powder in envelopes can be construed as fake anthrax terrorism, with police and courts and non-consensual career breaks, so I'd be far too chicken to actually do it.

But I like to think that I could.
posted by Devonian at 12:08 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


The only thing sadder, to me, than the press showing these women at Trump rallies saying they don't believe the accusers is the women who are saying it in front of their little girls. There's nothing like telling them off the bat that their own parents won't believe them if they report an assault.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:08 PM on October 15, 2016 [69 favorites]


I was thinking about all the misery that Trump has caused during his time on earth. Some people are born and spread sweetness and light. Others...

He has hurt several members of his family with his coldness and calculating behavior.

He has stiffed hundreds of workers and business owners, causing some to go out of business.

He has conned thousands of people out of their life savings and driven them deep into debt for little return on their investment.

He has groped unknown numbers of women causing them shame, embarrassment, and anxiety.

And now his true fans are going to be crushed when they discover their god has feet of clay. I'm not talking about the alt-right or White Nationalists but those poor deluded people who were normal (i.e. slightly racist, homophobic, and sexist) Republicans who have bought into Trump's fantasy world-- the one where he is going to "make all your dreams come true." What happens when the election is over and he has lost? The lucky ones will have the scales fall from their eyes. The unlucky ones? They will continue to believe in all of his lies and promises and buy into his myth that the election was rigged by an evil conniving woman and the global powers that she works for. Their lives will be full of bitterness and anger.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:09 PM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]


If we're wondering what can happen to the press, Amy Goodman is being charged for criminal trespassing while reporting in the Dakota Pipeline Protest. Because the state attorney general doesn't believe she was a reporter but a protester.

https://www.thenation.com/article/amy-goodman-is-facing-prison-for-reporting-on-the-dakota-access-pipeline-that-should-scare-us-all/
posted by sio42 at 12:11 PM on October 15, 2016 [28 favorites]


But I think if four or five of these frontrunners had actually sat down and agreed to coordinate for the good of the party and nation, they could've gotten one of their own to come back.

I'm not sure if this is a thing that has been discussed to death at this point (guys, these threads move so, so fast), but is there a reason that the past few Republican primaries have had this clown car phenomenon where 15+ people, most of whom obviously have zero chance of becoming President, join the race?

In contrast, this Democratic primary season saw exactly two entrants, and the mainstream media seemed unprepared to hear that anyone at all was interested in the non-frontrunner. 2012 is a nonstarter obviously, but even in 2008 you saw a relatively limited field populated by only serious candidates who the average person would consider reasonably qualified to become President.

If we can trace the Trump candidacy to the crowded field of Republican entrants and the concept of the "novelty candidate" for President, why isn't this happening with the Democrats?
posted by Sara C. at 12:11 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


Some people have illnesses, or kids with special needs, or any of a gajillion other circumstances that make random strangers ringing their doorbell a huge problem for them.

But even absent that: a no soliciting sign is like the simplest, most primordial form of personal boundary I can think of. If you choose not to respect that you are the one in the wrong.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:12 PM on October 15, 2016 [50 favorites]


Wikileaks releases 3 Clinton Goldman Sachs speeches (see attachments tab)
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 12:13 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Some people have illnesses, or kids with special needs, or any of a gajillion other circumstances that make random strangers ringing their doorbell a huge problem for them.

Definitely not what I was referring to when I mentioned people being irrationally angry at people who just want to register them to vote. I'm definitely talking about able bodied single/childless 20 and 30 somethings who have the ability to say, "No thanks, already registered" and politely move on.
posted by Sara C. at 12:16 PM on October 15, 2016


@ DavidMackauTrump camp says they raised $100m in September, including $2m from Trump himself

He has attached a copy of the fundraising report.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:16 PM on October 15, 2016


Definitely not what I was referring to when I mentioned people being irrationally angry at people who just want to register them to vote. I'm definitely talking about able bodied single/childless 20 and 30 somethings who have the ability to say, "No thanks, already registered" and politely move on.

I mean...you don't really know that, is the thing. People have invisible illnesses! I have one! It sucks, and it means delivery guys leaning on my bell for the unit below me is an actual problem for me. Ignore "no soliciting" signs at your own peril, I guess.

ETA: I would look an awful lot like an able bodied thirty something without kids. And yet.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:20 PM on October 15, 2016 [28 favorites]


t is there a reason that the past few Republican primaries have had this clown car phenomenon where 15+ people, most of whom obviously have zero chance of becoming President, join the race?...If we can trace the Trump candidacy to the crowded field of Republican entrants and the concept of the "novelty candidate" for President, why isn't this happening with the Democrats?

Because of the Democratic Party control and process that everyone loves to hate. This is what it does: produce strong, viable candidates. also recall in 2008 the field was initially a lot wider - there were at least 8 primary contenders - it's not inevitable
posted by Miko at 12:22 PM on October 15, 2016 [4 favorites]


> "In contrast, this Democratic primary season saw exactly two entrants ..."

Six. Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, Martin O'Malley, Lincoln Chafee, Jim Webb, and Lawrence Lessig.
posted by kyrademon at 12:23 PM on October 15, 2016 [37 favorites]


Wikileaks pulled four quotes out of the speeches, all nuanced and thoughful. NOTHINGBURGER, again.
posted by argybarg at 12:24 PM on October 15, 2016 [14 favorites]


I totally forgot about O'Malley. He was even in the debates and it's just a blank.
posted by mochapickle at 12:26 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


I think one of the big things was that Clinton actually has the organizational and negotiating skills Trump claims to have and was able to run up the endorsements way ahead of time and convince basically every other viable potential candidate in her own party to sit this one out.
posted by ckape at 12:28 PM on October 15, 2016 [9 favorites]


is there a reason that the past few Republican primaries have had this clown car phenomenon where 15+ people, most of whom obviously have zero chance of becoming President, join the race?

1. Running for president is a way to spend OPM on doing relatively fun stuff for at least a few months.
2. Running for president on the GOP side has been a way to get on (or stay on) the wingnut welfare circuit.
3. The wingnut welfare circuit perpetuates candidates who believe themselves "next in line" (Santorum, Huckabee, Perry) based on their performance in the previous cycle.
4. There's also a "now or never" set of candidates, along with the belief that governors have a better shot at the presidency; the glut in GOP governors over the past decade (Jindal, Perry, Christie, Bush, Walker, Kasich, Huckabee, Pataki) divided the field.
5. The fundamentals in 2016 looked pretty good for the GOP, given Clinton's unfavourables and how it's historically been difficult for one party to hold the presidency for three terms.
posted by holgate at 12:29 PM on October 15, 2016 [23 favorites]


Argy, the speech transcripts are in the attachments tab.
posted by xyzzy at 12:29 PM on October 15, 2016


I know, I'm just saying those were the most "damning" passages they could find.
posted by argybarg at 12:31 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


Andrew O'Hehir on (what led to) this past week: Fifty Shades of Donald Trump (Salon).

"I wish I believed in a literal hell, because I want there to be a special place in it for all the people who made Donald Trump possible..."

Among others, he names David Brooks. Good.
posted by kingless at 12:31 PM on October 15, 2016 [13 favorites]


2. Running for president on the GOP side has been a way to get on (or stay on) the wingnut welfare circuit.

Exactly. Don't forget Sheriff Clarke has a new book to sell and he's heavily promoting it now. He'll do anything to get in the headlines.
posted by mochapickle at 12:33 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


I am despondent at Paul Ryan's failure to do even the smallest, easiest bit of the right thing. Be a fucking human being.

The Ryans and McConnell's of this country feel no responsibility or loyalty to the country. For them, the right thing is "the right thing for Republicans."

And there is no room for "win-win" in their philosophy of governance. If they denounced Trump it would be good for everyone -- but for them, it's not a win unless the liberals also lose.
posted by invincible summer at 12:37 PM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


Martin O'Malley, Lincoln Chafee, Jim Webb, and Lawrence Lessig

Oh god I completely forgot about all of these people.

Which kind of proves my point, in a way?
posted by Sara C. at 12:38 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


The fundamental difference I see between the two parties isn't the different mechanisms. It's the different goals. Fundamentally the Democratic Party believes in good governance first and disagree about ideology. The Republican Party puts ideology before competence.
posted by Francis at 12:41 PM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]


Latino USA #1642 - The New Deciders (podcast, ~ 54 minutes)

From the blurb on the page:

...Latino USA travels to swing states and tells stories from the communities that are shaping politics today—in ways you might not expect. We hear from the powerful Latino Evangelical community of Florida, Muslim Americans in Cleveland and Black Lives Matter activists in North Carolina.
posted by kingless at 12:42 PM on October 15, 2016 [2 favorites]


I mean...you don't really know that, is the thing.

I'm talking about people I know well in real life. So either, yes, I would know that, or they are keeping a very deep secret. And I can't really go around assuming that literally everyone I know, even my closest friends, probably have completely separate secret personalities that *only* come out when it comes to their attitudes about political canvassers.

Either way, Cortex kind of answered what I said and this is officially a derail.
posted by Sara C. at 12:43 PM on October 15, 2016 [3 favorites]


I've never been a fan of early voting. Say this year you're a fan of Trump but the pussy tape changed your mind, but you just sent in your ballot. What do you do?
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 12:47 PM on October 15, 2016 [1 favorite]


Contextually, we were talking about people who ignore no solicitation signs, so apologies if that was not relevant / we missed each other in the thread.

The Ryans and McConnell's of this country feel no responsibility or loyalty to the country. For them, the right thing is "the right thing for Republicans."

Yeah, Pence's "I'm a Christian, a conservative, and a Republican, in that order" is looking pretty damn prophetic right now.

Anyone ask him where "American" is in his list? Is it in the top 10?
posted by schadenfrau at