April 12, 2002

8:36 AM

I expect crackpot theories about Sept. 11 from the French and the Middle East. But when a U.S. House Representative starts peddling one, that's depressing. (Note the smug, carefully worded "I don't have any evidence but an investigation might find some" call for a fishing expedition.) I value healthy skepticism, but this sounds to me more like grandstanding for attention.
posted by pmurray63 (30 comments total)

Cynthia McKinney... surprise, surprise. But like the Instapundit, I like the response she got:

Carlyle Group spokesman Chris Ullman asked: "Did she say these things while standing on a grassy knoll in Roswell, New Mexico?"

posted by dagny at 8:44 AM on April 12, 2002

The truly sad part is that her constituents eagerly lap up her little statements like this, and she's virtually guanteed reelection.
posted by aaron at 8:49 AM on April 12, 2002

I'm not a believer in conspiracy theories, but neither do I lap up the propoganda drek that the White House, the Pentagon and CNN feeds us on a daily basis.
posted by mark13 at 8:58 AM on April 12, 2002

"Did she says these things while standing on a grassy knoll in Roswell, N.M.?" the Carlyle Group spokesman inquired, while taking a long, slow drag off his cigarette. He then straightened his lapels, looked around carefully and left the scene in ghost-like fashion.
posted by raysmj at 8:59 AM on April 12, 2002

FDR probably knew about Pearl Harbor, so I wouldn't be completely surprised if something like that were true.

Same story, different faces. Or, to quote the Who, "say hello to the new boss he's the same as the old boss."

On the other hand, it's more probable that George W. Bush is an alien. He would have to be about as psychotic as Nero to konw about something like that and allow it to happen.
posted by insomnyuk at 9:17 AM on April 12, 2002

"and she's virtually guanteed reelection"
counting chickens again;)?
posted by clavdivs at 9:22 AM on April 12, 2002

I expect crackpot theories about Sept. 11 from the French and the Middle East.

WTF?
posted by scarabic at 9:26 AM on April 12, 2002

This is the same woman who during the election said Al Gore's negro tolerance level has never been too high. I've never known him to have more than one black person around him at any given time.
posted by schlyer at 9:29 AM on April 12, 2002

Be glad she can say these things.
posted by GernBlandston at 9:33 AM on April 12, 2002

scarabic: I believe the FPP is referring to the bestselling French book claiming that American Airlines Flight 77 didn't really crash into the Pentagon.
posted by boltman at 9:45 AM on April 12, 2002

This isn't too encouraging, either: "Rep. Jack Kingston (R-Ga.), a friend of McKinney's, said the Georgia Democrat is adept at seizing on 'red-meat' issues that resonate with her political base and have helped her fend off a series of GOP challengers. 'She's not as random as people think,' Kingston said. 'People always want to hear a political conspiracy theory.'"

So this is a legitimate way to serve your mush-minded constituents? Indulge their love for conspiracy theories?
posted by pardonyou? at 9:47 AM on April 12, 2002

Be glad she can say these things.

I'm very happy she can say them. I'm very saddened she can get elected to Congress by saying them.
posted by aaron at 9:48 AM on April 12, 2002

Shows you have imbeciles on both sides of the political spectrum. Her proof? She is sure some people made a lot of money after the attack. No kidding? You mean because we went on a military spending spree for Afghanistan etc some folks in that business saw business pick up? So, too, lots of New Yorkers went house buying outside the city after the attack. I guess they too were a part of the plot.
posted by Postroad at 9:51 AM on April 12, 2002

Boltman: yes, thank you, that is exactly what I was referring to with the French comment; I didn't have a link handy. As for the Middle East, I was referring to the Jewish conspiracy story (didn't have that link handy, either).

Insomnyuk: FYI, the book to which you link (Day of Deceipt) has been discredited as sloppy work; the author relies upon Japanese intercepts that were finally decoded after the war in the interest of documentation. As this Slate article explains, no one has ever proven that FDR knew about Pearl Harbor ahead of time.
posted by pmurray63 at 10:10 AM on April 12, 2002

Maybe Ms. McKinney will indirectly profit from the war-time spending spree, too—then she could hire a real web designer instead of her 10-yr.-old neighbor.
posted by gutenberg at 10:16 AM on April 12, 2002

I live in Ms McKinney's district and it seems that we will never get rid of her. No Democrat dares run against her and the Republicans put up candidates that are too far to the right to stand any chance in the district.

You all get to be amazed and astounded, but I get to be embarrassed.
posted by donpardo at 10:53 AM on April 12, 2002

The sad part is that over-the-top stuff like this guarantees that the very idea of investigating the real problems with our intelligence services will never happen. There were serious errors of miscalculation, of communication. This could be a way to give Tom Ridge a blueprint for his job.
posted by dhartung at 11:17 AM on April 12, 2002

Insomnyuk: FYI, the book to which you link (Day of Deceipt) has been discredited as sloppy work;

Just for the record, Japanese intercepts weren't the only pieces of evidence used in Stinnett's book. And a Slate article with several glaring errors and incorrect conclusions doesn't qualify discrediting. I'm tired of banging the same drum so just read this and follow the links or read the book for yourself and decide.

We now return you to your scheduled loony bashing.
posted by euphorb at 11:31 AM on April 12, 2002

Phew, it just makes me glad that I live where I do. About a mile or so from her district, in John Lewis's district. I do know a lot of people in her district, and most are embarrassed by her antics. I wouldn't lash out too much at her constituents too much, as donpardo shows. If the republicans ran anyone as moderate as Bob Barr there, they might have a chance (tongue firmly in cheek).
posted by trox at 11:36 AM on April 12, 2002

Homer Simpson: "When are people going to realize that democracy just doesn't work?"

Seriously, that's two nutball representatives in a week, one is on his way to jail, and I bet both of them will be re-elected. And your teachers told you representative democracy is better than direct democracy. I see no difference.
posted by insomnyuk at 11:55 AM on April 12, 2002

I must second Dhartung's comments. Conspiracy theories are often more useful to the targets of the theory rather than those who propagate them. The real issues are obscured by the outlandish ones.
posted by cell divide at 12:58 PM on April 12, 2002

Well...we have to say, and have someone who will say it: is there nothing about the events of September 11, 2001 that are questionable?

Fact: the Bush family and the Bin Laden family were business associates with the Carlyle Group for many years.

Fact: the US Government claims--today--that a single, unscratched bullet changed direction in mid-air, passing through multiple body parts and emerged UNSCRATCHED after killing John F. Kennedy and injuring John Connolly.

Fact: a miniscule number of Amercans believe the "single bullet theory."

Fact: short sellers of American and United stock before 9/11 include former CIA officials, and there's $2M+ in profit on the trade still unclaimed.

Fact: Carnivore, the FBI's ISP intel device; CIA spends multi billions with no accountability; the movie "Enemy of the State," and the recently discovered willingness of our own military to create "terrorist" incidents killing US citizens if necessary, in a bizarre plan to rid Cuba of Castro and no announcements that kind of military "thinking" has been changed in all this time.

Fact: it all adds up to something...what? Inquiring minds want to know. And we want to hear whistleblowers tell us.
posted by goodhelp at 4:49 PM on April 12, 2002

She's obviously nuts. I mean, to say that the presidential election was of "questionable legitimacy"? That implies that there is some question as to whether it and its result are illegitimate. You'd have to have a screw loose to question that.
posted by rushmc at 7:25 PM on April 12, 2002

"Fact: a miniscule number of Amercans believe the "single bullet theory." -- now there's some hard evidence.

Fact: a large number of Americans believe the universe was created in the last 10,000 years. Does that make it true?

"Fact: short sellers of American and United stock before 9/11 include former CIA officials, and there's $2M+ in profit on the trade still unclaimed." - can you provide a link for your source on this?
posted by ArkIlloid at 11:04 PM on April 12, 2002

"The American people know the facts, and they dismiss such ludicrous, baseless views," he said. "The fact that she questions the president's legitimacy shows a partisan mind-set beyond all reason."

BUH FUH FUH I AM SHOCKED AND AMAZED FUH HUH. These the facts Ari Fliescher shits on a plate for us once a week? Or the facts that the president shits on a plate for us every few months? I seem to recall mr. Schiester (I just thought of that, pretty clever eh?) telling us to watch what we say after those airline jets SMASHED into the WTC. I like it when the President has a guy whose job it is to tell us to watch our mouth.

We are all utter pussies. We'll never believe the truth of a situation this embarassing.

Ark: regardless of what happened back in the late 60s to that Kennedy fellow, there has been established reason to doubt the official investigation, and that's all that matters. Furthermore, it is the continual and often seemingly unreasoned skepticism and doubt that keeps any sort of civilization alive. In a perfect world, we'd follow all the leads, even if they were supposedly ridiculous.

Anyway, we call it crazy and over the top, and we attack her character when we should be being patient with her, but the moment she can find any shred of evidence, we should demand investigation immediately. If you were suspected of complicity with this, you think the American People would call it a fishing expedition? You think all those arabs held in various detention centers feel good about it?? No??? Courtesy is contagious people, and suspicion should not stop at the doorstep of the rich and famous.

Also, the results of the election lacked some degree of legitimacy, I think we'll all agree with that. I think the database of people convicted of crimes outside the state of florida preventing people to vote there, a selective database, 57% african american too, would imply something went down.

Fact: The president of Afghanistan is an ex spokesman for f*cking UNOCAL. Oil? Yes, afghanistan is good for oil.

This accusation is not Partisan in my opinion. It is a bit more than that. When you accuse someone, or some group of people in civil service of complicity in the murder of a few thousand people, that is not petty, crazed political horseshit. Do you think it is? Think the democratic party stands much to gain by condemning the administration? I think the democratic party is gonna limit their pissing and moaning to the more trivial concerns of the american citizen. This representative is probably hoping to be immoratalized for some stunt after alienating herself from the chummy boys club we call a representative government. I'd bet her attendance record is better than most.

We are lazy, we are defensive, we are unwilling to accept the fact that our elected officers are idiots (in the case of the representative, and to a certain extent, the president).

Anyway, this link was at drudge. The seed of doubt has been planted in the unwashed masses and that is all that matters for now.
posted by Settle at 1:02 AM on April 13, 2002

Oh yes, and there's the fa18 hornets which are kept at a nearby military base for precisely this sort of special circumstance. They were not deployed. And then, a day later, all mention of those jets was removed from the public webpage. That was Condaleeza's territory I believe. She knew what was gonna happen for a good ten minutes or so.

LAZY. Mark my words America, this apathy and narrowmindeness will be the death of you and your idiot raver offspring. See if I care.. frankly I can wait for them to steal my wallet.
posted by Settle at 1:09 AM on April 13, 2002

To: Anyone who believes that FDR knew about Pearl Harbor BEFORE December 7th, 1941, and anyone who believes that George Bush knew about the terrorist attacks BEFORE September 11, 2001

Get real. For either of these men to have known anything about the impending attacks, it would have been necessary for many other people to know about it. Intelligence-gatherers of every stripe, military personnel of all grades/ranks, etc. Do you expect anyone to believe that all of those people knew about the attacks and said/did nothing about them in order to prevent them? Or that, after the attacks, they simply clammed up and didn't tell anyone that they knew?

The level of conspiracy, and the number of people involved, needed in order to "cover up" knowledge of either attack is simply too overwhelming to give any credence to either situation. TWO people can't keep a secret -- what makes you think that a dozen, a score, or hundreds of people can?
posted by davidmsc at 4:30 AM on April 13, 2002

Need to know basis.
posted by crasspastor at 4:56 AM on April 13, 2002

The truly sad part of this is that Grand Unified Conspiracy Theories divert attention from the fact that organisations like the Carlyle Group do have many influential fingers in many government pies. (Like Daddy Bush, John Major took a consultative job as soon as he left office.) That its flacks can be so flippant says something. And frankly, I do have my suspicions about what exactly was known before September, as reports were coming in throughout that summer of things moving in and around Afghanistan and bin Laden.

What's more important is the way in which a craven US political and media climate has allowed the Bush administration to spin and revise the historical record to redefine the objectives and achievements of its activities. People will be reminded of the 'credible threat' on AF1 long after they forget the rebuttals; people will forget the dubious futures trading, long after the investigations are permanently shelved; people will forget the fact that no-one on September 11th, not least the people in the news room, had control of the agenda, now that Bush and a cuckolded American press steamrollers its way towards permawar.
posted by riviera at 5:37 AM on April 13, 2002

The truly sad part of this is that Grand Unified Conspiracy Theories divert attention from the fact that organisations like the Carlyle Group do have many influential fingers in many government pies.

I think it's part and parcel.
posted by crasspastor at 5:45 AM on April 13, 2002