Zooming down alleyways in China.
December 1, 2016 10:05 AM   Subscribe

Two guys, one British, one American, both married to Chinese women, ride motorcycles around Guangdong talking about what it is like to live there. Why is everything in China falling apart? China's lost generation. You will never be Chinese. Part of the interest is just seeing what China looks like on the street level. They talk about some things that have been discussed here lately.
posted by Bee'sWing (39 comments total) 35 users marked this as a favorite
 
This looks cool. These guys look like they are fairly well-informed about China, and appear to speak Mandarin as well. So it's not the usual foreigner circle-jerk.

I did think it was odd when they basically knocked on someone's door to ask how old their house was, and basically kept pestering the guy about it. Maybe China is different, but I can't imagine using my white privilege to do that in Japan.
posted by My Dad at 10:19 AM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]


These guys are certainly negative a lot. They have lived there 6 and 10 years, if I remember right. But they sound just like the people from my old company when they came back from tours of China, part admiring and part exasperated.
posted by Bee'sWing at 10:46 AM on December 1, 2016 [2 favorites]


Minor editorial quibble: the 'British" guy sounds South African.. and the 'about' on the channel has his handle as SerpentZA.
posted by psolo at 10:47 AM on December 1, 2016 [4 favorites]


I should also say: interesting post!
posted by psolo at 10:48 AM on December 1, 2016


China is crazy in the best possible way. Very little makes sense to a westerner.
posted by Keith Talent at 10:48 AM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]


Is this the video where one guy mentions his mother-in-law being unaware that the oil in a new car, after 70k km even, needed to be changed and then, to top it off, disagreed with it as a necessary maintenance step because it was too expensive / unneeded in the first place?

I can't begin to grok the mindset that would create such a lack of care or comprehension, but we're all trending that way it seems so, here we go!
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:09 AM on December 1, 2016


These guys popped up in my youtube feed a few days ago, and I thought some of their vids were kinda interesting. The one about Chinese vs Western women was also kinda interesting, if also cringeworthy. Came off as a couple of losers in that one.
posted by 2N2222 at 11:15 AM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]


Am I just imagining that one of these guys is affably but regularly domineering the other?
posted by Rich Smorgasbord at 11:19 AM on December 1, 2016


Yup, that’s the one RolandOfEld.
posted by pharm at 11:23 AM on December 1, 2016


Very little makes sense to a westerner.

the toddler poop-chaps were alternately horrifying and hilarious at first and they remain so but the utility is undeniable
posted by poffin boffin at 11:34 AM on December 1, 2016


I didn't know that a new car needed its oil changed.

But did you argue with someone when they told you it did, in fact, need such a service performed on it? And then follow it up with negation oriented derision centered on the lack of long term return on said oil-change investment?

You do not have to be a mechanic to read the manual that comes with your new automobile. Nor, lacking that documentation, do you lack the ability to consult others on the same topic. They said their in-laws, or at least one of them (it's hard to tell who is who with the go-pro helmet cam dialog), were firmly middle (or upper even? Again, hard to tell) class and did not lack for amenities or money, hence the emphasis on the new car's lack of maintenance.
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:51 AM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]


I just heard on NPR that Chinese officials want to evaluate the value to society of every citizen according to a simple relative scoring system, like a credit rating. Their leaders want to impose stack ranking on the nation's entire citizenry, with penalties in reduced services for poor performance, using quantitative methodologies so crude, even corporate America has rejected them. I'd say they've lost their minds almost as much as we have.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:01 PM on December 1, 2016 [5 favorites]


Having grown up in rural Alberta, what I'm seeing in the first video doesn't seem all that bad. Not as bad as they seem to think it is, anyway.

Sometimes people are low on energy, low on money, low on resources. Not every temple - or church - can be maintained like a picture postcard. Sometimes things get half-built, and then the money runs out.

And even if you are rich, maybe showing off to the neighbours isn't the best use of your money and time.
posted by clawsoon at 12:02 PM on December 1, 2016 [4 favorites]


The format itself - showing everyday China and talking about current topics - is bloody brilliant.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 12:03 PM on December 1, 2016 [4 favorites]


China is a humongous country. "Everyday China" is as meaningful as a term as "Everyday America".

Expats living in a country for a long time can be the worst ambassador about certain things.

For a more nuanced understanding of contemporary China (and its youth), I'd recommend Wish Lanterns.
posted by suedehead at 12:20 PM on December 1, 2016 [7 favorites]


Re: the oil change thing it's very weird from a U.S. perspective because we have such a longtime car culture. I took that mostly as a sign of how relatively novel it is for many people to be buying cars in China.
posted by atoxyl at 12:24 PM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]


do most people actually read that manual?

For a lot of people, their car is the most expensive thing they will ever purchase. So yeah, you read the manual.
posted by ryanrs at 1:37 PM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]


That's an interesting thing mentioned in the "You'll never be Chinese" video. They're both married to Chinese citizens but apparently marriage brings no benefits. You can either stay in China on an annual work visa which has to be renewed every year OR you can stay on a marriage visa....which has to be renewed every 2 years and does not give you the right to work. So I guess calling them expats is quite correct because they can't legally become immigrants even though they've been married for years.
posted by I-baLL at 1:38 PM on December 1, 2016 [2 favorites]


OMG that video made me so nauseated. Interesting as hell but I had to stop watching it.
posted by Annika Cicada at 2:15 PM on December 1, 2016


I'm enjoying these, thanks. But how did they get this overhead shot that comes out of nowhere? Did they drive through a prearranged spot where someone had a drone at the ready? If so, these videos are less spontaneous than I'd initially thought.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 2:51 PM on December 1, 2016


I read the manual that comes in a package of batteries.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:53 PM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]


This looks cool. These guys look like they are fairly well-informed about China, and appear to speak Mandarin as well. So it's not the usual foreigner circle-jerk.

No, quite the opposite. And the frequency of misinformation on MetaFilter in regard to China is disappointing. "Nail" houses are more commonly used to describe very old housing and an older person (and their family) holding out for a better offer in a development scenario. Families are granted 70-99 year leases on land (versus private property). Sometimes it's not a ploy. Sometimes the ploy doesn't work. And in relation to the housing bubble, a more interesting conundrum is when families do move from development of the countryside and exchange their leases for a city apartment and can't make a living (transfer skills) and sell the new lease, go through the windfall, and then need help.

Nothing these two report is as factual as convenient to biased criticism.

Coincidentally, I've been traveling around China for three years with a partner (who lived in Taiwan for 15 years and is sufficiently fluent to amuse locals with his impressions of dialects) on a pair of 250cc bikes made to look like Harleys. 250cc is the legal maximum, I'm told, for the majority of provinces. But it's a relic already in ways: The number of e-Bikes is impressive. Major cities have gone all electric (except for grandfathered work bikes). I had a rack built to straddle two large, wicker "farmer's baskets" on my bike and enjoy compliments for my "country style". Our travel has been most extensive in the Jiangxi province, but to the south (Fujian) and toward Shanghai as well. My partner has a GoPro, but he's more prone to record natural features than document (cluck tongue) poor, pitiable Chinese shenanigans.

The shoddy concrete structures aren't everywhere, but they do exist as a phenomenon. Surveying architectural styles has been a hobby of mine. They're easy to overestimate. You have to get off the bike and ask often to take a meaningful survey.
posted by lazycomputerkids at 2:55 PM on December 1, 2016 [13 favorites]


So far, I've looked at only the Lost Generation one and was a little surprised by their comments about the entire group. I spent a mere two weeks in China in the mid-1990s, and what I saw of that age cohort was people dressed much more poorly, driving truly rickety bicycles while younger Chinese often turned up in nice little cars and cellphones (which were still pretty new.) My conclusion was that older generation had suffered because of the years lost to the Cultural Revolution, not benefited from it. Good to hear another perspective.

I do think they missed the point of the hatred of Japanese. You know, history, Japanese brutality, invasion and rape, still in living memory of many Chinese.
posted by etaoin at 3:27 PM on December 1, 2016


Wow, so the "you're not Chinese" one really is bringing some things home for me...

As a foreigner living in the US, I could certainly tell some stories about immigration officers who just decide you're lying about everything, confiscate your phone, and proceed to call all your friends and your girlfriend and threaten to deport you if they keep asking for his name... Or I could talk about bearded, prime-terrorist age (but white) me getting through customs no problem, but as I leave, they all descend on the minuscule Arab girl next in line... But those things are about getting across the border, not about being able to live like a normal person.

And in general, living in the US is a ridiculously sane experience compared to what these guys are talking about. There's pretty literally nothing that's available to US citizens (other than voting) that's not available to me. I have an official ID, duh. I own property in the US, and if it was for sale, I'm pretty sure I could buy Ellis fucking island. Credit cards, sure, just pay your bill. I am/was on the board of directors of two non-profits (one of which I co-founded). My bank doesn't even know I'm not American. And BTW neither does the IRS. Etc. etc.

Which makes me think

1. Cut these guys some slack. I know I don't have much to complain about, and still I could fill hours with "WTF is wrong with this place" rants. It just comes with being in a strange place, and the one over here ain't that strange by comparison.

2. I know very little about China, but is it possible they can't get a credit card because they manage to piss off the locals? Or like, fail to bribe them at the appropriate times? Or something? Just wondering.

3. If "you're not an American, and you can never be one" was a common sentiment around here, that would be a deal breaker for me. I think a large part of the reason I got stuck here is that the opposite is true. But yeah, I'm white, and yeah, recent events make me wonder. Oh well.

4. Even if, by somebody's standards, these guys don't really *really* get the place, I have a lot of respect for them. I moved to a 'distant' place, but culturally it's probably the equivalent of moving from one Chinese province to another. And still, it's one of the most fascinating things I've ever done. If you don't know what that's like A) you should find out, and B) you might hold off on judging them until you do.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 5:01 PM on December 1, 2016 [4 favorites]


Interesting. 'Nailhouses', wow. Reminds me of an Erasmus quote I ran into yesterday:
I doubt if a single individual could be found from the whole of mankind free from some form of insanity. The only difference is one of degree.
Plenty of examples of that in the West.

The following discussion of the houses ... "nothing here is maintained" ... may follow from the residents' perception that a maintained look suggests there's money around. Making them a target. China's been around for many thousands of years, so the accumulated wisdom may be beyond us.
posted by Twang at 5:46 PM on December 1, 2016 [2 favorites]


Nothing these two report is as factual as convenient to biased criticism.

Huh, that's too bad, but not surprising. I must say (again) that their decision to just walk up to some guy's house and interogate him was a very "white" thing to do. I've seen it done all the time in Japan, where non-Japanese (ie, "foreigners") basically ignore social conventions because "Japan doesn't make any sense" or "those customs are just stupid."

So that's a red flag, for sure.

And the frequency of misinformation on MetaFilter in regard to China is disappointing.

Other countries (outside of the US), too.
posted by My Dad at 6:26 PM on December 1, 2016 [2 favorites]


But how did they get this overhead shot that comes out of nowhere? Did they drive through a prearranged spot where someone had a drone at the ready? If so, these videos are less spontaneous than I'd initially thought.

They have a drone, yes. They know people at DJI and I think one of them did a video at DJI headquarters, which is near them. I think they spontaneously pick the route, but they'll stop to get shots for the video. They also like to set a camera on the ground and ride past it for some of their shots.

Oh, and not only is the "British" guy South African, I believe the "American" is Canadian!
posted by hyperbolic at 6:39 PM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]


The one about Chinese vs Western women was also kinda interesting, if also cringeworthy. Came off as a couple of losers in that one.

"it is expected, basically, that if you are in a relationship, if you're dating, if you're serious, that, you know, marriage is definitely on [sic] the cards. And that's quite scary for a Western guy, because that's not something we want to ever think about." oh boy. and then there's the other one, the American, who explains how it's super easy to break up in America because you tell the girl that you don't see a future with her and she says "hey, that sucks" but a few phone calls later "everything's cool" and you stay Facebook friends. for sure if she isn't screaming and crying she isn't mad or upset at all. that's the nice thing about Western women, see.

they are both very concerned to warn other men that Chinese women react badly to being seduced and abandoned. they both explain that they have observed this bad reaction MULTIPLE TIMES even though after the first time they knew in great detail that this was (according to them, anyway, I assume nothing about their accuracy) the universal Chinese understanding of their behavior (deceiving and abandoning, rather than fun casual no-strings sex & romance).

they describe this as a thing. that happened. TO THEM. (Multiple times.) They do not describe it as a thing they each did to women. (Multiple times.)

I guess it's refreshing to see Chinese women marveled at for standing up for themselves and demanding respect while American/Western women are backhandedly praised (?) as doormats and conveniences, instead of the other way around. and by "refreshing" I mean predictably misogynist. and thus I can't say they seem like losers at all. The women who have dealt with them probably feel like losers but these two are winners. Born sitting on top of half of the world, knowing it, happy about it. very careful to be gentlemanly and polite about it. but hey, easy to be polite when you won just by being born. anyhow I had to turn that one off by the time they got around to explaining to the audience what gender roles are.

(on seeing a later comment, read Canadian for American. same difference. sorry if that is gratuitously offensive, the video inspired me)
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:39 PM on December 1, 2016 [9 favorites]


this video series would be viewed as a comedy in China about two idiot white people thinking stupid, ill-informed thoughts. like Dumb and Dumber but less making fun of folks with disabilities and more 'white people lol'

I say this based on the reactions my parents had when I forwarded this to them

just fyi for those who think this is 'a real authentic experience of China'
posted by runt at 6:57 PM on December 1, 2016 [6 favorites]


2. I know very little about China, but is it possible they can't get a credit card because they manage to piss off the locals? Or like, fail to bribe them at the appropriate times? Or something? Just wondering.

No. However corrupt the banks here may be higher up, at the level of the individual customer they are strictly by the book, or at least always have been with me. Non-Chinese can't get a credit card without a work visa, not even secured, at most banks. There is a whole raft of Chinese financial services not available to those without a Chinese national ID number, i.e. non-PRC citizens. And I do take occasional umbrage, but I also know I'm working & living within a system very different from the US (12-year American resident of Beijing here).

Also, "psycho Asian ex-girlfriend" is a Known Thing out here in Asia expatland, not confined to China. I wish it would fXXXing go away, because if I tell a story about my ex 8 times out of 10 someone jump in with, "She wasn't one of those ones who calls you 50 times a day and shows up at your office with a knife right?" One notorious example was when a dude who asked me for relationship advice went down that track...I was all :-| I've been warned off dating Asian girls for exactly this reason by countless Asian girls. I've stopped trying to explain why it bothers me. It's exhausting.
posted by saysthis at 7:59 PM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]


Also, "psycho Asian ex-girlfriend" is a Known Thing out here in Asia expatland, not confined to China. I wish it would fXXXing go away, because if I tell a story about my ex 8 times out of 10 someone jump in with, "She wasn't one of those ones who calls you 50 times a day and shows up at your office with a knife right?" One notorious example was when a dude who asked me for relationship advice went down that track...I was all :-| I've been warned off dating Asian girls for exactly this reason by countless Asian girls. I've stopped trying to explain why it bothers me. It's exhausting.

Maybe "expatland" isn't confined to what you're describing here? Maybe 8 times out of 10 is as meaningful as a toothpaste commercial in 70s America claiming 4 out 5 Dentists Agree?

I am exhausted by the dissonant bigotry of vocations largely populated by white males alternately bragging about all the young pussy they get and the gold-digging bitches they avoid. Oh, and let's conveniently exclude asides of the nearly ubiquituous happy-ending massages at an "affordable" price, not like back in X land. But there's more: Penis , hee-hee, because Asians have small ones, right? And Asian pussy? Hey man, you know what I'm sayin'...

The film Sideways? 8 of 10 expats I've had to suffer in a bar have that coming.

And what's worse? The fraction of men that marry "native" women as regressive as any Noble Savage or Golden Whore narrative is not the minority. It's a privilege to know the exceptions.
posted by lazycomputerkids at 10:20 PM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]


And what's worse? The fraction of men that marry "native" women as regressive as any Noble Savage or Golden Whore narrative is not the minority. It's a privilege to know the exceptions.

What do you mean by this?
posted by My Dad at 7:48 AM on December 2, 2016


They come off as so snotty and racist in the first video that I couldn't watch the other two. There could have been an interesting discussion on why buildings are maintained to different standards but they were clearly disgusted by people living in those conditions. I personally would not want to deal with a dark elevator but I'm sure as an American I do all kinds of weird shit other cultures would not understand. (I wore shoes in someone's house yesterday!)
posted by AFABulous at 11:50 AM on December 2, 2016


What do you mean by this?

Yeah, the sentence is unclear-- That a majority of marriages between an immigrant worker of european descent and a native of the hosting nation are asymmetric in terms of age and "pants wearin'".

Why, to hear tell it, I do believe the woman was "saved".

To frame the dynamic a little less patronizingly? Power dynamics (dynamics of privilege) between people from developed and developing nations are as problematic as necessary.
posted by lazycomputerkids at 2:10 PM on December 2, 2016


That makes sense.
posted by My Dad at 3:51 PM on December 2, 2016


Maybe "expatland" isn't confined to what you're describing here? Maybe 8 times out of 10 is as meaningful as a toothpaste commercial in 70s America claiming 4 out 5 Dentists Agree?

I'm saying it happens a lot, so much that it feels like every time and that the exceptions are memorable. You're right though, numbers when I don't mean actual numbers isn't the smartest thing that's come out of my mouth.

I am exhausted by the dissonant bigotry of vocations largely populated by white males alternately bragging about all the young pussy they get and the gold-digging bitches they avoid. Oh, and let's conveniently exclude asides of the nearly ubiquituous happy-ending massages at an "affordable" price, not like back in X land. But there's more: Penis , hee-hee, because Asians have small ones, right? And Asian pussy? Hey man, you know what I'm sayin'...

The film Sideways? 8 of 10 expats I've had to suffer in a bar have that coming.

And what's worse? The fraction of men that marry "native" women as regressive as any Noble Savage or Golden Whore narrative is not the minority. It's a privilege to know the exceptions.


Yep. *sigh* Yep.
posted by saysthis at 9:34 PM on December 2, 2016


The format itself - showing everyday China and talking about current topics - is bloody brilliant.

Seconding this.
posted by Rash at 8:30 PM on December 3, 2016


And when the OP mentioned things "that have been discussed here" recently I thought the reference was not for his last link, but the first, for the chabuduo corner-cutting post.
posted by Rash at 11:05 AM on December 4, 2016


Having watched a couple of the videos I kinda get why anyone would see these guys are miserable, entitled expats. Though I have to admit that the supermarket video was very interesting (warning: excessive whinging). I'm a the only one getting Karl Pilkington vibes from one of the guys?

Texan in Tokyo and Life Where I'm From X are much better at the genre.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 12:32 AM on December 5, 2016


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