"[their] real gender that has [long] been hidden will become visible"

December 26, 2016 6:27 PM

In the Islamic Republic of Iran — unlike any other country in the Persian Gulf region — sex reassignment is not only allowed, but also subsidised by the government. Unfortunately, it's not as rosy as it sounds.
posted by AFABulous (24 comments total)

There's a lot of language in this that could possibly have been examined a little more critically - "sex reassignment surgery" in particular is only half a step better than "sex change" as a term, and reflects the fairly limited and problematic understanding of trans identities and people that the Iranian authorities hold.

Nevertheless, this was an interesting rundown of how the situation in Iran with regard to trans people and trans-related surgery came about, which I hadn't seen laid out before.
posted by Dysk at 6:47 PM on December 26, 2016 [6 favorites]

Huh. Yeah, this is fascinating. "In Iran the government pays for SRS because they think it's better than being gay" is a thing that's been going around as folklore for a long time, and it pretty much always gets retold without any details. It's nice to have a bit more context for the whole thing.
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:56 PM on December 26, 2016 [7 favorites]

Reading this made me appreciate the limited progress that has been made towards Trans equality in Canada, but also makes me wish we would VERY AGGRESSIVELY ACCELERATE that progress, as well as our intake of LGBTQ refugees from Iran and elsewhere. Holy shit.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 7:01 PM on December 26, 2016 [7 favorites]

Both sad and fascinating.
posted by bunderful at 7:03 PM on December 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

It's pretty amazing, the diversity and complexity of ways that societies develop to hate on LGB (and especially) T people. If wedevoted half this energy and ingenuity into acceptance and social development, imagine what we could do!
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:34 AM on December 27, 2016 [12 favorites]

I wonder how many people went through the surgery to avoid persecution or death, and aren't trans at all, but can't live in society as gay/bi/lesbian/queer.
posted by xingcat at 7:59 AM on December 27, 2016 [10 favorites]

I want to echo Dsyk's comment. The phrasing is spotty, and it shows the disconnect between reality and the ideas of the people making the rules. I, personally, don't think that "sex reassignment" is any better than "sex change". Though, I completely understand the extra problems "change" has, as it comes under the assumptions that trans people are their assigned-at-birth gender, and also that surgery is the only way to legitimize a trans identity.


After reading the article I'm so enraged. how man cis homosexuals were coerced into having surgery for fear of execution. how many gay trans folk have to deal with dysphoria or pretending to be cis for their whole lives, because to transition would bring on the dangers of institutionalized homophobia. Where the fuck do intersex people fit into this? And, as a nonbinary person this quote: “We are in a country where we have to be either women or men and nothing else,” is just too much.
posted by FirstMateKate at 8:04 AM on December 27, 2016 [21 favorites]

"Sex reassignment surgery" is pretty much standard phrasing in my experience. That's not to say it's ideal, but most people, particularly those in positions of power to help and/or hurt trans people, will scoff at alternatives such as "gender confirmation surgery" or climb right on top of their You People™ Always Change the Wording This is Why I'm a Bigot Now hill. (Spoiler: if you ever go full You People™, you were probably already a little bit bigoted.)

This isn't an argument against improving both terminology and understanding. Just a reminder that to be trans is to be unworthy of even basic dignity in most of the world.
posted by byanyothername at 9:36 AM on December 27, 2016 [2 favorites]

Genital Reconstruction Surgery (or the acronym thereof, GRS) is much more standard in the circles I move in (and a much better, more neutrally descriptive term).
posted by Dysk at 9:42 AM on December 27, 2016 [8 favorites]

I remain baffled that people can care so deeply about what two complete strangers, both consenting adults, do with each other privately for pleasure, that they feel compelled to make and enforce actual laws about it. People do all kinds of things that others find weird or disgusting, but as soon as sexual pleasure is involved, it somehow becomes necessary to beat them up, cut them up, or lock them up, just to punish them for it. I just don't understand that visceral rage and vindictiveness.
posted by panglos at 10:12 AM on December 27, 2016 [3 favorites]

In Vancouver, I have provided services to some Transgendered clients from Iran and other middle eastern countries. Like many refugees, their experiences in getting to Canada (sometimes not their country of choice) has been traumatizing. Some Trans-Iranian refugees have expressed shock by the lack of Trans-specific health services here in Vancouver. Some refugees require further surgeries or have complications from their Iranian surgeries and require immediate follow-up. So, there is a lot of frustration that Trans-folks must travel to Montreal for Trans medical (surgery) services, which is government funded.
And many Trans refugees are frequently shocked from their experiences of Transphobia here - very similar to what they experienced in their home country. Being shunned by your culture, your community, your religious centre's - seems to be no different here, than what they experienced in their home country.
Some have spoken out. OutRight has a video here and report here.
posted by what's her name at 10:38 AM on December 27, 2016 [5 favorites]

I remain baffled that people can care so deeply about what two complete strangers, both consenting adults, do with each other privately for pleasure

I mean, I'm pretty baffled by this too, but I'm also confused as to why you think this has anything to do with trans people, in Iran or anywhere else. Transness isn't about sexual pleasure at all.
posted by Dysk at 4:28 PM on December 27, 2016 [1 favorite]

In this story and in this country, there's suspicions that the two are intertwined in this particular set of circumstances - that same sex desire is seen as deviant, and surgery can correct a person's sex in a way that'll make that desire acceptable.
posted by Selena777 at 5:25 PM on December 27, 2016 [2 favorites]

I think panglos was reacting to the idea of forcing cisgendered homosexual people to transition against their will, rather than the treatment of trans people outside Iran.
posted by tobascodagama at 5:38 PM on December 27, 2016 [5 favorites]

You are correct, tobascodegama - I didn't see this story as being about people who desire to transition, but those who are forced to.
posted by panglos at 7:03 PM on December 27, 2016

Yeah, at best TFA mentions that such people might exist, but everyone who is a subject on the article, is interviewed, is mentioned by name, they're all trans and identify themselves as such.
posted by Dysk at 11:56 PM on December 27, 2016 [1 favorite]

Of course, their is a rich tradition of refocusing conversations about trans people on cis gays. It's all about relative power, innit.
posted by Dysk at 11:58 PM on December 27, 2016 [2 favorites]

If you think my comment was intended to refocus the discussion away from trans people in an attempt to rob them of power, you're just one more thing I don't understand.

I humbly request the moderator remove my earlier comment. Clearly I'm adding nothing constructive to this conversation, so would prefer to add nothing at all.
posted by panglos at 2:26 PM on December 28, 2016

I'm not saying you're doing it to rob anyone of power (and am a little perplexed at that interpretation) I'm saying that cis gay people have relative power within queer spaces and society at large compared to trans people and are thus able to refocus conversations by having their voices heard and acknowledged above those of others. No malice is necessary for that pattern to play out, nor any intent - it's about whose speech is seen to matter, is seen as important, about which issues are deemed worthy of focus. It's the very idea that the takeaway from an article about trans people in Iran and how the Iranian state conceptualises and treats trans people is concern for cis gay people.
posted by Dysk at 3:32 PM on December 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

Could we at least agree that everyone is very bewildered about everyone else and consider it stated from here out?
posted by Etrigan at 3:58 PM on December 28, 2016

I'm confused - what do you mean?

/hamburger
posted by Dysk at 4:03 PM on December 28, 2016

Fascinating. Just as an outsider who finds the 'construction of the self' a worthy topic. The whole 'homosexuality' --> hideous moral fault --> 'surgical intervention' --> 'A-OK' is such a convoluted chain of reasoning.
posted by mrdaneri at 4:36 PM on December 28, 2016

Serious question: will Canada or other places consider asylum applications from trans people in the U.S.? We face plenty of discrimination and are denied access to basic needs like healthcare and... I don't know... bathrooms. I would move to the EU in a heartbeat if I could.
posted by AFABulous at 3:48 PM on December 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

I would move to the EU in a heartbeat if I could.

The EU is nearly thirty different countries, all with very different laws relating to trans people, their rights and non discrimination, before we even start talking about the cultural differences with regard to attitudes to trans people. The situation in Belgium is not the same as in the UK is not the same as in Italy is not the same as in Denmark, is not the same as in Poland, etc, etc. It's not going to be any better in a lot of places over here - in many places, it's significantly worse in terms of legislative frameworks and access to healthcare.
posted by Dysk at 4:48 PM on December 29, 2016 [1 favorite]