Team of Revileds
January 30, 2017 1:46 PM   Subscribe

The cabinet of new U.S. President Donald J. Trump is largely up for confirmation this week, and each nominee has a hefty portfolio to handle if confirmed.

For Rex Tillerson at State, Trump's (and Tillerson's) connections to Russia are under heavy scrutiny, while tensions with Iran and China continue to grow.

Attorney General nominee Jeff Sessions will have to clean up the mess created by last week's executive order -- as will Transportation nominee Elaine Chao.

Betsy DeVos received some education about Education, while Scott Pruitt seeks to lead the burnt-out shell of the EPA.

Andrew Puzder at Labor will have to figure out if he has any particular opinions on what exactly the current unemployment rate is, Ben Carson wanders into HUD (with some controversial help from Elizabeth Warren), and Rick Perry has -- oops -- changed his tune on the Energy Department now that he has learned more or less what it does.

Health and Human Services nominee Tom Price will have to overcome his penchant for perjury if he wants the chance to oversee the colossal task of convincing Americans they don't actually want Obamacare.

Steve Mnuchin, Treasury nominee, will be charged with taking government back from those damn Goldman Sachs elites.

And finally, tomorrow night we'll get our answer to the question on everyone's lips: "Who Wants To Be A Supreme Court Justice?"

(Maybe.)
posted by saturday_morning (3342 comments total) 133 users marked this as a favorite
 
perfect timing as the old thread is spitting up server errors all over me like an overfed toddler
posted by poffin boffin at 1:47 PM on January 30, 2017 [17 favorites]


Thanks, Saturday_Morning!
posted by samthemander at 1:48 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


I saw this linked on Twitter, and it appears to work-- if you want to fax but don't have a fax number, you can use this online service for free:

Fax your Representatives

Fax your Senators
posted by a fiendish thingy at 1:49 PM on January 30, 2017 [26 favorites]


Don't have a very high opinion of this Mr. Trump
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:50 PM on January 30, 2017 [38 favorites]


So who's coordinating the protest of the EO targeting LGBTQs? I feel like we should get out ahead of this one. No more reacting.
posted by lydhre at 1:51 PM on January 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


lambda legal is definitely gearing up for a fight
posted by poffin boffin at 1:53 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'm scared. I thought that Trump was a immature narcissistic clown - and he is - but now I'm starting to believe that his administration (led by Bannon? Russia?) is deliberately sowing chaos, not being incompetent, and hoping for a civil war or coup and the literal end of the US as we know it.
posted by insectosaurus at 1:55 PM on January 30, 2017 [59 favorites]


I'd be cautious about protesting before anything is officially signed - I don't put it past President Bannon to float some things that aren't actually going to be signed as a way of making protestors look bad - "see, they didn't even have something to protest."
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:55 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


i think any pro-hate crime lgbt legislation presented will be the work of notorious homophobe pence rather than bannon the nazi but who even knows anymore
posted by poffin boffin at 1:58 PM on January 30, 2017 [17 favorites]


I mean, today is Day 11. The Press Secretary to the President said, "The president went out of his way to recognize the Holocaust..."

I think messaging that we will not accept any rollback on LGBTQ rights is good, whether the draft that CNN says to have ever sees the light of day or not.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:58 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]






Just donated to Lambda Legal in anticipation - go get those fucks.
posted by mayonnaises at 1:59 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


Write to your representatives: democracy.io streamlines sending emails.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:01 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Sources: Trump executive order allowing anti-LGBTQ discrimination is coming soon
From what we’ve heard, the executive order could be far-reaching, and could include: making taxpayer funds available for discrimination against LGBTQ people in social services; allow federally funded adoption agencies to discriminate against LGBTQ parents; eliminate non-discrimination protections in order to make it possible to fire federal employers and contractors based on their sexual orientation or gender identity; and allow federal employees to refuse to serve people based on the belief that marriage should be between a man and a woman, and that gender is an immutable characteristic set at birth, which would impact a broad range of federal benefits.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:01 PM on January 30, 2017 [15 favorites]


Hey I just finished skimming the 2500+ comments from the weekend in time to catch the new thread. This was said in the last thread but I want to share my experience from Sunday.

It wouldn’t surprise me if the goal is to create “resistance fatigue,” to get Americans to the point where they’re more likely to say “Oh, another protest? Don’t you guys ever stop?” relatively quickly.

It's possible that this is their goal. But if so, may I say, it is a stupid goal.

Because I don't think they realized how rewarding it is to protest, especially when so many people in your community are involved, and ESPECIALLY when it's successful like it has been this weekend. They're getting us addicted to civil disobedience. I don't think that works out well for them in the end.


On Sunday I went to my first protest ever (second if you count the Women's March from a week ago). I didn't really know what to expect, but I'd been brimming with anger all weekend and one of my friends asked if we wanted to go with them. I'm so glad I went, and I can't imagine a better way to feel a little fulfilled and less angry about the course of events. It was in Houston, and I think organized in less than 24 hours to gather downtown. I went with my wife and a pair of friends, all of whom are newbies to protesting. My friends were so excited yet unguided that they brought a 3ft x 3ft whiteboard and markers, but then got to the protest with it blank and said they wanted to bring a sign but didn't know what to put on it. ('Abhi aren't your parents Immigrants?' 'Yea, they are.' 'Maybe you could put something about that?' 'Oh! Yea that'd probably be good!')

The turnout was ok I guess? I think between 1,000 and 2,000. I got there a bit late, and caught the last 45 minutes of the standing around chanting, before we started marching a bit aimlessly for a few blocks. Then the protest dispersed with directions to reconvene at the airport. In retrospect I feel a bit irritated that Houston's turnout was a 10th the size of cities that we're quadruple the size of, yesterday and for the Women's March (23k turnout I believe). Texas is red, but Harris county had I think the largest swing towards democrats this election nationwide, and Houston is by some metrics the most diverse city in the country. I'm still super glad I went and ready to do it again whenever I can. I learned in talking to friends this weekend that one of my good friend's mom was in a refugee camp in Malaysia before she immigrated, where she watched her mother die. My coworker and friend told me that both his parents were refugees from Pol Pot's reign. It's weird how close these things can hit to home without you really realizing it.
posted by DynamiteToast at 2:01 PM on January 30, 2017 [50 favorites]


Trump’s hard-line actions have an intellectual godfather: Jeff Sessions
Inside the White House and within Sessions’s alumni network, people have taken to calling the senator Joseph from the Old Testament — a boy shunned by his family and sold into slavery, only to rise through unusual circumstances to become right hand to the pharaoh and oversee the lands of Egypt.

In a 20-year Senate career, Sessions has been isolated in his own party, a dynamic crystallized a decade ago when he split with President George W. Bush and the business community over comprehensive immigration changes.
We may now commence the jokes about Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat (bonus points for working pyramids for grain storage into them).
posted by zachlipton at 2:02 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


Someone in the previous thread asked about the content of the proposed EO on LGBT issues. I assume they would involve rolling back Obama's protections for LGBT federal employees and federal contractors. So contractor firms would be allowed to discriminate against gay employees, for instance.

Possibly they would change how various federal benefits are distributed to LGBT Americans -- although this would probably be an Equal Protection violation, I suspect Wormtongue & Voldemort don't actually know what the 14th Amendment does. (Well, Wormtongue might, but he doesn't care.)

I'm not sure what a version of RFRA that is consistent with presidential authority could look like, though.
posted by suelac at 2:03 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


I came across Hate Thy Neighbor, a television series released in the last couple of weeks, featuring stand-up comedian Jamali Maddix interviewing hate groups around the world. The first episode features the National Socialist Movement in the U.S., with lots of Trump/Pence signs in evidence.
posted by XMLicious at 2:03 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


I made the mistake of going to the National Border Patrol Council Official Union of the US Border Patrol twitter account and now I'm really frightened. Trump basically has his own army. It seems crystal clear why there are airports where they are ignoring the court order.

They have a podcast episode about the executive order if any of you have the stomach to listen to it.
posted by missmerrymack at 15:54 on January 30 [has favorites −]


Really scary. And unnerving in how the union's twitter account is just there in the open.
posted by ZeusHumms at 2:05 PM on January 30, 2017 [21 favorites]


Also, Scott Pruitt, nominee for EPA Administrator, doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

I mean, less so than DeVos, but that's a low, low bar.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:07 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


ugh the lord is testing my unyielding devotion to collective bargaining
posted by poffin boffin at 2:08 PM on January 30, 2017 [35 favorites]


[...]I'm starting to believe that his administration (led by Bannon? Russia?) is deliberately sowing chaos, not being incompetent, and hoping for a civil war or coup and the literal end of the US as we know it.

I made and posted this a day or so after the inauguration. It's getting less and less funny.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:08 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Can we circle back to the excellent "Shock Event" article (old thread link) (see also the FB post if you are a FB'er) for a second to consider our strategy?

But because shock events destabilize a society, they can also be used positively. We do not have to respond along old fault lines. We could just as easily reorganize into a different pattern that threatens the people who sparked the event.

Is knowing say, certain Orange's Sunshine State travel schedule an opportunity for us?
posted by yoga at 2:09 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


Nice clean new thread you got here


Be a shame if somebody filled it full of Trump
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:09 PM on January 30, 2017 [93 favorites]


Really scary. And unnerving in how the union's twitter account is just there in the open.

No doubt salivating over the 10 000 new dues paying members Trump promised to add to their ranks.
posted by PenDevil at 2:10 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


But that's what Bannon has always said he wanted, so, yeah?

He wants the destruction of the state, Annoying Orange's voters wanted the destruction of the state, so they won't be shocked and disappointed when they get it.
posted by tel3path at 2:10 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Excellent post title.

We are all focused on political opposition right now, and that makes sense. But what scares me is that these fascist policies and bigoted ideas have real social support.

What do we do about that? What do we do when the fascists in power aren't the cause, but the symptom?

This isn't a rhetorical question. I'm at a loss.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:11 PM on January 30, 2017 [28 favorites]


Also, before heading to the protest yesterday I asked my wife if we should make a sign or something. She pointed out we didn't really have any materials to make a sign, and I responded that it was starting to look like it would be prudent to invest in sign making materials.
posted by DynamiteToast at 2:12 PM on January 30, 2017 [51 favorites]


ugh the lord is testing my unyielding devotion to collective bargaining

I'm okay with the idea that there are evil unions, just like the idea that there are good corporations. It's how I've dealt with police unions for the last few years.

Also, before heading to the protest yesterday I asked my wife if we should make a sign or something. She pointed out we didn't really have any materials to make a sign, and I responded that it was starting to look like it would be prudent to invest in sign making materials.

Whiteboards. Reusable materials!
posted by dinty_moore at 2:13 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


Al Jazeera English saying that the spokesmen for Shia militias in Iraq are calling for all U.S. citizens to be expelled.
posted by XMLicious at 2:14 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


it was starting to look like it would be prudent to invest in sign making materials.

One of the signs at the DC march yesterday was "I'M RUNNING OUT OF POSTER BOARD"
posted by a fiendish thingy at 2:15 PM on January 30, 2017 [94 favorites]


I was just listening to a Turkish author being interviewed, where she mentioned she was prosecuted under the 'insult to the Turkish nation' legislation and said "Of course, nobody knows what that means".

Which reminded me that badly-worded, obtuse and ambiguous legislation is a known weapon of authoritarian regimes, because of the latitude it gives them, especially with a compliant judiciary. So read the EOs with that in mind, and they make much more sense - well, meta-sense.

The other thing I have been very much reminded of over the past couple of days is a saying, and I do not know the source although that doesn't matter, that pay close attention to how governments treat immigrants and other non-citizens, because that's how they'd like to treat you if they got the chance.

On the plus side - loads of demonstrations across the UK this evening, which was the lead item on the BBC radio news just now. And the no-state-visit petition's still going up at around 10 sign-ups per second, which is a very respectable third of what it was doing yesterday, even though it's now at 1.5m+.
posted by Devonian at 2:18 PM on January 30, 2017 [60 favorites]


Al Jazeera English saying that the spokesmen for Shia militias in Iraq are calling for all U.S. citizens to be expelled.

Well, as they should. President Bannon sort of thinks politics is a one sided game (hence his whole shit fit about how his opposition should be too humiliated to protest or publish critiques right now) and everything that reminds him that, no, his short sighted and hateful actions have consequences the better.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:18 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


Whiteboards. Reusable materials!

Alas, the maker community doesn't seem to have DIY lasers to project slogans on walls.

Yet.
posted by rough ashlar at 2:18 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


I'm okay with the idea that there are evil unions, just like the idea that there are good corporations. It's how I've dealt with police unions for the last few years.

Unions take on the collective character, wisdom and intelligence of their members.
posted by ZeusHumms at 2:19 PM on January 30, 2017 [19 favorites]


Right. Reading the possible (probable) EO attacking LGBTQ rights is being forewarned. I, for one, prefer to get a sort of head's up on these things.

I'm trying to remember some of his other campaign promises (besides Lock her up!) We'll probably see some sort of Law & Order EO which allows for Stop & Frisk. There will be some sort of severe attack on legal abortions. There will be tariffs-- especially on China. There will be an attempt to address "Voter Fraud" complete with his phony-bologny numbers that "prove" Illegal Immigrants voted. Any other big campaign promises I'm missing? Job creation, of course, with a big Infrastructure Bill but that will have to come through congress.

I feel nauseated already. Even though I know intellectually people in history have dealt with much worse, still this feels like the worst roller coaster ride imaginable and I"m not even sure I can count on the car to stay on the rails. Maybe we'll just go sailing off to our doom. Maybe it feels so bad because we were soft and complacent and used to living under good governance.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:19 PM on January 30, 2017 [21 favorites]


Jacobin seems to think that Bannon is not long for this administration. I wish I had their optimism.

On the positive, some dipshit deplorables decided they'd come back to the scene of their previous crimes and hold a rally for the wall and their daddy issues. It appears that only peaceful pro-immigrant protestors showed up, thankfully.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:19 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


They have a podcast episode about the executive order if any of you have the stomach to listen to it.

You can win a Gerber LMF II Infantry Knife, or maybe a pair of Haix steel-toed boots!

Because, you know, totally civilian law enforcement.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:20 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Any other big campaign promises I'm missing?

"lock her up."
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:20 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


On the positive, some dipshit deplorables decided they'd come back to the scene of their previous crimes and hold a rally for the wall and their daddy issues. It appears that only peaceful pro-immigrant protestors showed up, thankfully.

I heard a report of a sole lonely Nazi turning up then hightailing it.
posted by Artw at 2:21 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


lock her up

Coming to a Senate Oversight Committee near you.

Beware the ides of March.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:21 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


it was starting to look like it would be prudent to invest in sign making materials.

If you have something that will be pretty universal to every protest, you can make it on fabric with water safe ink. If you go to a protest where it rains, it'll stay legible despite the water and will be reusable for multiple rallies.
posted by Candleman at 2:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


Trump’s Refugee Ban Is a Betrayal of Iraqis Who Risked Their Lives for Us, commentary by Michael Zacchea, a former U.S. Marine who was awarded two bronze stars for valor and meritorious service in Iraq.

Trump & Bannon really underestimated how veterans would react to punishing Iraqi refugees.
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [94 favorites]


But what scares me is that these fascist policies and bigoted ideas have real social support.

They undoubtedly do, but I am heartened by seeing how much the opposite is true too, especially outside of deep blue areas. We really do outnumber them.
posted by Artw at 2:24 PM on January 30, 2017 [23 favorites]


One of the signs at the DC march yesterday was "I'M RUNNING OUT OF POSTER BOARD"

I will give this to the Trump administration: it is stimulating the art supplies sector of the economy.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:27 PM on January 30, 2017 [50 favorites]


Psst Joey: I'm trying to remember some of his other campaign promises (besides Lock her up!)

I mentioned the Lock her up thing this morning as well, in the previous thread. I'm worried that he will justify it to himself as being popular with his base. That always did seem to get the biggest reaction from his rallies.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:27 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


Alas, the maker community doesn't seem to have DIY lasers to project slogans on walls.

We have the technology. (ok, probably just a projector and not literal lasers, but close enough)
posted by zachlipton at 2:28 PM on January 30, 2017


Aaaugh I read that Jacobin article and it has a picture of President Bannon and

has nobody noticed that Bannon and Annoying Orange look JUST ALIKE?!?
posted by tel3path at 2:28 PM on January 30, 2017


Oh, shoot, sorry SLoG.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:28 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm starting to think that when he asked "What have you got to lose?" it wasn't a rhetorical question.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:28 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


I rather dug those electronic signs that some protesters had - like shop window signs with the words picked out in individual high brightness LEDs. They're easy to make, cheap and would last a reasonable time on a not-stupid-to-carry battery pack. Not much harder to make them blink or cycle words, either, and with enough of them it'd look bloody stupendous at night.
posted by Devonian at 2:29 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


I made the mistake of going to the National Border Patrol Council Official Union of the US Border Patrol twitter account and now I'm really frightened.

Now think about how many police unions came out in support of Trump. Think about those San Antonio cops who met Trump and wore MAGA caps while on duty.

The responsibility to resist unjust police action may become a whole lot less theoretical for many people soon. (For some, of course, it's been a reality for decades. Another fight many of us are joining late.)
posted by chrominance at 2:30 PM on January 30, 2017 [47 favorites]


Chris Hayes: This is amazing; thousands show up to @SenWhitehouse town hall and demand answers for his vote on Pomepo,

Also Hayes: So I'm hearing some very interesting things out of Alabama,where it appears @SenatorSessions has been personally calling black lawmakers 1/x ...urging them to come out & publicly support him. Indications are that his connection to immig EO has he and his folks a bit nervous...2/2

Hit your Congresscretins HARD on Sessions. NO Democratic votes are acceptable, and ANY Dem voting yes on Sessions OR on SCOTUS must be primaried immediately. Those are uncrossable lines to remain in the Democratic party.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:32 PM on January 30, 2017 [95 favorites]


Reading the possible (probable) EO attacking LGBTQ rights is being forewarned.

Probable, based on the claims of a single reporter, with no corresponding policy telegraphed by the administration or the Trump campaign? I don't see any harm in getting ahead of this in case it's real, but I'd give four to one against it.
posted by Coventry at 2:33 PM on January 30, 2017


> I don't see any harm in getting ahead of this in case it's real, but I'd give four to one against it.

Put me down for $20 (SAIT). MeMail is open.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:37 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


I have a close friend who is a tv pundit.. he's been watching and just said WaPo has clarified about the LBTG EO and will be releasing soon. Ugh...
posted by pearlybob at 2:37 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]




Time to print 1985, then.
posted by Namlit at 2:40 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


So it seems the New York Public Library is all out of copies of 1984.

Well, that's doubleplusgood.
posted by el io at 2:40 PM on January 30, 2017 [25 favorites]


Hit your Congresscretins HARD on Sessions. NO Democratic votes are acceptable, and ANY Dem voting yes on Sessions OR on SCOTUS must be primaried immediately. Those are uncrossable lines to remain in the Democratic party.

Just managed to get through to Corker's Washington office (his and Alexander's phones have mostly been busy at all offices all weekend). The guy the answered sounded really tired. Good.
posted by ghharr at 2:41 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


I made the mistake of going to the National Border Patrol Council Official Union of the US Border Patrol twitter account and now I'm really frightened.

A silver lining I'm taking from this is that the rest of America is starting to figure out that La Migra is scary as fuck.
posted by joedan at 2:42 PM on January 30, 2017 [20 favorites]


Put me down for $20. MeMail is open.

I state odds as a way to express my level of confidence in something. I wouldn't offer to actually gamble on a public forum, since I gather that's illegal in Massachusetts.
posted by Coventry at 2:43 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


I dare him to try and lock Hillary Clinton up. I triple dog dare him.

Wanna give the left a solid figure to rally around? Be my fucking guest.
posted by lydhre at 2:43 PM on January 30, 2017 [30 favorites]




I don't see any harm in getting ahead of this in case it's real, but I'd give four to one against it.

I'll take those odds - put me in the book for £25.
posted by MattWPBS at 2:44 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


I will give this to the Trump administration: it is stimulating the art supplies sector of the economy.

He probably has a hand in that, too. I would check this overwhelming chart of all Trump's business ties, but that would probably take the rest these four years.
posted by Capt. Renault at 2:45 PM on January 30, 2017


When Trump and Spicer talk about 109 people out of hundreds of thousands being stopped at airports as if this isn't a big deal, they're lying. Just among students alone, this impacts more than 17,000 college students, according to 538's analysis, including more than 12,000 Iranian students currently studying here. Not to mention non-students in every possible category. All of them are in limbo, unable to come back if they leave and unable to enter if they're abroad.
posted by zachlipton at 2:45 PM on January 30, 2017 [50 favorites]


Any other big campaign promises I'm missing?

Destroying ISIS and then keeping the oil. Technically the former is a campaign promise and the latter is something he says he would have done had he been in charge at the time. But he's mentioned it often enough I think it could be a sign that he has some intention of a Middle East campaign/resource extraction.
posted by FJT at 2:47 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


In America, Nazi punches you!
posted by chavenet at 2:48 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


I state odds as a way to express my level of confidence in something.

Too late, you are now the bookie here.


You have always been the bookie here.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:48 PM on January 30, 2017 [20 favorites]


> I state odds as a way to express my level of confidence in something. I wouldn't offer to actually gamble on a public forum, since I gather that's illegal in Massachusetts.

What is driving this confidence? Pence promised that the administration would be anti-equality. The EOs so far have been making good on campaign promises, in ways that defy any sort of reason. What gives you confidence that these bigots won't follow through on this one?
posted by tonycpsu at 2:48 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


I would like to see Hillary step forward and lead right now. I'd like to see her do it for the next four years.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:49 PM on January 30, 2017 [20 favorites]


what's the vig tho
posted by poffin boffin at 2:50 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


But he's mentioned it often enough I think it could be a sign that he has some intention of a Middle East campaign/resource extraction.

Apart from being totally infeasible, wouldn't this be a fucking war crime

I would like to see Hillary step forward and lead right now. I'd like to see her do it for the next four years.

I have to say, where the hell has she been? If she's not here now, fighting with us, I'm not sure I want her back, frankly.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:50 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


Wanna give the left a solid figure to rally around?

didn't happen when it really mattered. not sure why it would now
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:51 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


I'm making a few more signs that say MAKE AMERICA AMERICA AGAIN

I don't know what else to do

I feel like The Onion's post-9/11 "woman bakes patriotic cake"
posted by prefpara at 2:52 PM on January 30, 2017 [49 favorites]




If Hillary and Bernie can lead the opposition and keep things going that's great but a big part of their leading now better be to identify and support whoever will be to taking over from them because I don't think either of them would be a good choice to run again in 2020.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:53 PM on January 30, 2017 [36 favorites]


If I were her I would be drunk for the next eight years and if anyone tried to blame me for it I would just go "WHERE WERE YOU" and I would be 100% correct to do so.

She tried. Don't pin this on her.
posted by E. Whitehall at 2:54 PM on January 30, 2017 [216 favorites]


Self-care note. If you want/need to take a break, but want to stay on the blue and reading/contributing to something that's fun, relaxing, positive, a mind-rest from politics, the first thread for this year's Eurovision is up. Hoping to keep a regular supply of old and new Eurovision tunes, news and the like going between now and the final in mid-May, as the 43 competing nations select their entries and do musical diversity battle. The tag across the content will be the standard #ESC2017.

Alternately, for a quick positive hit, Belarus are one of the first countries to decide on their entry and it's uplifting.
posted by Wordshore at 2:54 PM on January 30, 2017 [22 favorites]


I don't know if this is relevant, but as a trans person trying to cope with my own imminent designation as an enemy of the state, I just want to remind everyone that a legalization of LGBT discrimination does not merely affect actual LGBT people directly. It is a wide-ranging policing of the behavior of the general public.

I mean, how do you tell if someone is LGBT? If they don't tell you, you have to pick it up from context clues-- whom do they live with? how do they act? what are their interests? This affects people of all types who may not have the perfect stereotyped television gender appearance, whether out of happenstance or preference. I mean, how would you prove to your boss that you're not gay? This kind of legal language affects everyone, and I mean everyone, because it only take a rumor. So I'm hoping people will come out in support and I'm trying not to think about what will happen if they don't.

I decided a long time ago that when I transitioned, I would stay alive by any means possible because I didn't work this hard to give up. I will find a way, regardless of what happens. So please don't worry about me-- worry about yourselves and get out the damn vote in 2018.

I really picked the wrong week to apply to work at the State Dept, godDAMN
posted by blnkfrnk at 2:56 PM on January 30, 2017 [195 favorites]




If Hillary and Bernie can lead the opposition

i can't think of anything worse than splitting the party again to relitigate the fucking primaries in the inevitable argument on who we should follow, hillary or bernie

yes, i include dying in a gay latino death camp as not fucking worse than this hypothetical horror
posted by poffin boffin at 2:56 PM on January 30, 2017 [63 favorites]


I would like to see Hillary step forward and lead right now. I'd like to see her do it for the next four years.

Apart from being a horrible idea politically, putting herself out there is likely to end with her in jail. She can't be the opposition now. The Clinton era is over for better or worse. Dems have to rebuild with a new generation of leadership.

Obama can still lead, there's no rulebook on post-Presidential careers. Hell, let him move to North Carolina and run for the Senate again. That and his redistricting effort that's hopefully getting underway could be huge. I'd rather see him come back in a few weeks than any public role for Clinton until she does some 2018 midterm endorsements alongside Bill.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:56 PM on January 30, 2017 [61 favorites]


however if obama sent out a mass email saying arm yourselves for the revolution i would swing my sock full of quarters at the first red hat i saw
posted by poffin boffin at 2:58 PM on January 30, 2017 [107 favorites]


i can't think of anything worse than splitting the party again to relitigate the fucking primaries in the inevitable argument on who we should follow, hillary or bernie

Its like playing an endless series of games of Duck Season/Rabbit Season and realizing at the last moment every goddamn time that you're Daffy Duck getting a face full of buckshot.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:58 PM on January 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


Sure, Eurovision is going to be a big surprise this year for the UK entry isn't it? We'll be lucky to get zero, and not for the usual reason that our song is crap, but because we have been even more dickish this year than in some time.
posted by biffa at 2:58 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


shriners are safe, i like their tiny cars
posted by poffin boffin at 2:59 PM on January 30, 2017 [16 favorites]


You're going to see Hillary because they're going to try to drag her back into the Senate for more questioning. Which will distract from SCOTUS confirmation, other confirmations, injure her supporters and sew division over primary outcomes again.
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:00 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]




Intel Source: Bannon Is Making Sure There’s No White House Paper Trail
“He is running a cabal, almost like a shadow NSC,” the official said. He described a work environment where there is little appetite for dissenting opinions, shockingly no paper trail of what’s being discussed and agreed upon at meetings, and no guidance or encouragement so far from above about how the National Security Council staff should be organized.

The intelligence official, who said he was willing to give the Trump administration the benefit of the doubt when it took office, is now deeply troubled by how things are being run.
posted by zakur at 3:02 PM on January 30, 2017 [98 favorites]




You're going to see Hillary because they're going to try to drag her back into the Senate for more questioning


that would rally the left WAY more than the right base, i think.
posted by zutalors! at 3:02 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Destroying ISIS and then keeping the oil.

Wasn't that Iraq?
posted by Artw at 3:02 PM on January 30, 2017


do you want to also take book on whether or not trump has looked for the nation of Isis on a world map?
posted by poffin boffin at 3:03 PM on January 30, 2017 [21 favorites]


Intel Source: Bannon Is Making Sure There’s No White House Paper Trail

"Are you taking notes on a criminal fucking conspiracy?"
posted by Artw at 3:04 PM on January 30, 2017 [119 favorites]


In the midst of this very difficult, disheartening, enraging time, let me just say how grateful I am for MeFi and all of you, who make it possible to hang in. Please let's all take care of ourselves, our loved ones, and each other -- especially those who are most directly targeted and affected by this outrageous bullshit.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:04 PM on January 30, 2017 [44 favorites]


that would rally the left WAY more than the right base, i think.

Indeed. The left will flock to that, meanwhile their horrible justice will get on, and then they'll let the Hillary hearings go because it's a cynical ploy anyway.
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:04 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


He's not really alone in thinking they are a place you can bomb and then the trouble goes away, unfortunately.
posted by Artw at 3:05 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


We are all focused on political opposition right now, and that makes sense. But what scares me is that these fascist policies and bigoted ideas have real social support.

What do we do about that? What do we do when the fascists in power aren't the cause, but the symptom?


I just point to common values over and over and over again. That means I'm in the pulpit each Sunday saying "Jesus was a refugee" like a broken record. It means I'm at the local school board meetings saying "trans people are people too." It means I'm marching and protesting when I can. It means I'm leading bible studies with people who do not think like me, hoping to expand their world views, while also getting into trouble because I'm too "political." As a POC serving the whitest Christian denomination there is, I'm a target and a leader all at the same time. I pray this is working but I have no idea because the people can easily just walk away.
posted by Stynxno at 3:05 PM on January 30, 2017 [139 favorites]


No paper trail means no documentation. This is Bannon running the show.

It's funny how the dilution of the white supremacist movement into "right wing populist" and then just "populist" has meant that almost no-one believes me when I warn that there is a literal Nazi in the White House.

"But are you sure" yes, yes actually I am quite sure now that you mention it, us weenie liberals do fact-check
posted by E. Whitehall at 3:07 PM on January 30, 2017 [47 favorites]


what's the vig tho

Same as in town
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:07 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


He's not even dapper.
posted by Artw at 3:08 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


The Foreign Policy article is scary, but maybe it's a good sign that somebody who seems fairly high up in the NSC is leaking about the inner workings?
posted by diogenes at 3:08 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


Oh so much shade here from Quartz: Elon Musk believes we can live on Mars, but that Trump’s immigration order can’t be revoked

I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around Elon Musk's ridiculous effort this weekend to have randoms on Twitter propose specific amendments to the executive order so he can present them to the President. I mean, I did not previously think Elon Musk was a stupid person. And sure, smart people have bad ideas sometimes, but the stunning stupidity of a tweet saying "Please read immigration order. Lmk specific amendments. Will seek advisory council consensus & present to President" cannot be overstated. It's phenomenally stupid. And it makes it clear Musk has no idea what he's doing jumping into bed with Trump.
posted by zachlipton at 3:09 PM on January 30, 2017 [48 favorites]


So, independents breaking for Trump was a big thing this election. But independents track close to Democrats and moderates track close to liberals on the gay marriage question, at least. If this EO comes down it's the kind of thing that eats into narrow victory margins, good for the Republican base but bad for the whole Obama/Obama/Trump voter. And his approval rating is already not great with Independents.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:09 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Tillerson's nom advanced 56-43. I missed the Dem crossover yeas except Manchin, so fuck him. I am livestreaming CSPAN. I am in freak out mode.
posted by prefpara at 3:10 PM on January 30, 2017


Australian Teen Denied Visa For Space Camp in US Because His Parents Are From Iran
The 15-year-old, Pouya Ghadirian, was born in Australia but his parents are from Iran, giving him dual citizenship. The visa denial is believed to be the first for an Australian citizen under the Trump regime’s so-called Muslim ban, interpreted by many legal scholars to be grossly unconstitutional.
posted by zakur at 3:10 PM on January 30, 2017 [50 favorites]


The 5 Biggest Tech Companies Lost $32 Billion In Value Over Donald Trump’s Muslim Ban

Investors suspected Silicon Valley wouldn't have it easy under President Donald Trump's protectionist trade and immigration policies.

Trump deepened those fears Friday when he signed an executive order barring citizens of several Muslim-majority countries from entering the U.S. The move sent the market cap of the five biggest tech companies on the S&P 500 down by $32 billion Monday, as investors worried Trump's anti-immigration policies may cut into the workforces of tech companies.

Shares of Apple, Alphabet, Microsoft, Amazon, and Facebook (FB, -0.95%) together fell roughly 1% for a total market cap of $2.4 trillion on Monday. Alphabet alone shed $13.8 billion in market cap.

posted by futz at 3:11 PM on January 30, 2017 [42 favorites]


Clinton worked her ass off for a long time to try and stop this. I'm not going to demand she keep going after she was shut down and the rest of us are just now getting off our asses. She can take a break now.
posted by bongo_x at 3:13 PM on January 30, 2017 [109 favorites]


On the other hand all of this is following fairly standard authoritarian would be tinpot methods. I can't be the only person that's worked for a company where there was a tinpot micromanager and their much scarier and much more directly relevant enabler/manipulator, right?

I vacillate between "this is unpresidented, lol it really isn't" and "this is exactly that boss dyad, I am having terrible flashbacks".
posted by E. Whitehall at 3:15 PM on January 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


At some point in the last couple of weeks I ran out of fingernails and moved on to gnawing my ID badge lanyard. I should probably invest in some Juicy Fruit
posted by theodolite at 3:16 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]






The tweet from Hillary and the statement from Obama seem on the mark to me. Other approaches would take the focus off a) the streets; b) those in elected office. Neither is a refusal to step up. Both are endorsing those who have already done so.
posted by holgate at 3:18 PM on January 30, 2017 [24 favorites]


She tried. Don't pin this on her

I'm not pinning anything on her. I'm saying we need her.

We need fucking someone.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:19 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


I genuinely don't know what to do. I am the breadwinner for my family. But I have been struggling to focus on work. I am really frightened and very upset. I can't tear myself away from the news. And the firehose of shit is not going to stop.
posted by prefpara at 3:19 PM on January 30, 2017 [53 favorites]


Congressional Democrats are all outside the Capitol right now, holding a rally, calling Trump's immigration EO unconstitutional and evil.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:20 PM on January 30, 2017 [81 favorites]


Are there any historians in the house?

I want to hear real-world examples of when this has type of change-in-leadership-could-be-a-coup has happened in the past, and how the populace responded.
posted by samthemander at 3:21 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


We don't need her. She lost and she's not going to run again. Someone who is going to run for office needs to be the one getting out there.
posted by dilaudid at 3:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [22 favorites]


If you happen to be in OR Dist. 2, Rep Greg Walden made a statement. He's w/ Trump and approves the Muslim ban. I have called him 3x about this, asking him to voice disapproval. So now I get to call tomorrow and express disappointment. If you are in his district please do the same.
posted by hilaryjade at 3:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


One thing I've not seen mentioned much lately is that the FBI telegraphed very loudly before the election that they have Trump/Bannon/Session's back. Anybody going forward who emerges as a new and credible threat is going to have their lives turned into a living hell.
posted by lagomorphius at 3:23 PM on January 30, 2017 [21 favorites]


however if obama sent out a mass email saying arm yourselves for the revolution i would swing my sock full of quarters at the first red hat i saw

The traditional weapon is nickels. Cheaper and thicker. Also can be heated as in "a sack of hot nickels". FYI

Also ya'll leave Hilary alone the women has done literally everything she could and now she actually has to worry about getting arrested by a mouth-breathing yahoo administration. If she jumps in, great. But she doesn't owe us shit.
posted by emjaybee at 3:24 PM on January 30, 2017 [65 favorites]



The 5 Biggest Tech Companies Lost $32 Billion In Value Over Donald Trump’s Muslim Ban

Investors suspected Silicon Valley wouldn't have it easy under President Donald Trump's protectionist trade and immigration policies.

Trump deepened those fears Friday when he signed an executive order barring citizens of several Muslim-majority countries from entering the U.S. The move sent the market cap of the five biggest tech companies on the S&P 500 down by $32 billion Monday, as investors worried Trump's anti-immigration policies may cut into the workforces of tech companies.

Shares of Apple, Alphabet, Microsoft, Amazon, and Facebook (FB, -0.95%) together fell roughly 1% for a total market cap of $2.4 trillion on Monday. Alphabet alone shed $13.8 billion in market cap.


This is huge.
posted by Jalliah at 3:24 PM on January 30, 2017 [22 favorites]


RED HOT NICKEL BALL VS PUNCHABLE NAZI FACE
posted by Existential Dread at 3:27 PM on January 30, 2017 [41 favorites]


Tactically it's probably better if there's no single leader of the resistance.
posted by LobsterMitten at 3:28 PM on January 30, 2017 [64 favorites]


I don't think Hillary is wanted, plus what others said about her getting arrested if she does.

We need fucking someone.


I don't think we got anyone except each other. If you're looking for a leader against Trump, we don't got it. If Obama's not taking point, I don't know who is.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:29 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


Protest. Democratic leadership doesn't fix this, we need plebs in the street.
posted by angrybear at 3:29 PM on January 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


RED HOT NICKEL BALL VS PUNCHABLE NAZI FACE

I totally want to see this on the YouTube Hydraulic Press Channel.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:29 PM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


The 5 Biggest Tech Companies Lost $32 Billion In Value Over Donald Trump’s Muslim Ban

About that: Google employees are staging a walkout over Trump’s immigration ban
posted by zachlipton at 3:30 PM on January 30, 2017 [52 favorites]


Are there any historians in the house?

I want to hear real-world examples of when this has type of change-in-leadership-could-be-a-coup has happened in the past, and how the populace responded.


Yes. See previous link upthread
posted by yoga at 3:30 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


You could look to NGOs like Amnesty and the ACLU or its British counterpart, Liberty, for leadership.
posted by tel3path at 3:31 PM on January 30, 2017




Flying a large "Trump" flag, a mysterious convoy of military vehicles rolled down Interstate 65 through Louisville on Sunday morning.

Gross, and unacceptable.


Full Disclosure: You are 100% correct. That is gross and unacceptable.
The good news upside nothing good about this it doesn't seem like it was an actual military convoy. It was likely "just" a radical racist newly emboldened militant racist militia group of asshole racists with a stockpile of military hardware. It's still January 2017 and this is my new sense of optimism. I personally think that we will start seeing trump flags on Border Patrol vehicles before we see them on military, but I've been wrong about everything for the past year.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 3:33 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


Sally Yates, currently acting Attorney General, has told Justice Department lawyers not to defend the immigration executive order, as the believes the order to be unlawful.
posted by zachlipton at 3:33 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]




Protest. Democratic leadership doesn't fix this, we need plebs in the street.

As the oft-quoted article on living under an autocrat says, we can't rely on Institutions to save us. They won't save us. Courts, congress, the DNC, the ACLU, CAIR et al can all work tirelessly but they will be dismantled, kneecapped, weakened and outlawed. It has to be all of us together working towards the same end.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:34 PM on January 30, 2017 [19 favorites]


The Times has a story up on it now: Acting Attorney General Orders Justice Dept. Not to Defend Refugee Ban
“I am responsible for ensuring that the positions we take in court remain consistent with this institution’s solemn obligation to always seek justice and stand for what is right,” Ms. Yates wrote in a letter to Justice Department lawyers. “At present, I am not convinced that the defense of the executive order is consistent with these responsibilities nor am I convinced that the Executive Order is lawful.”
...
“For as long as I am the Acting Attorney General, the Department of Justice will not present arguments in defense of the Executive Order, unless and until I become convinced that it is appropriate to do so,” she wrote.
Heroic.
posted by zachlipton at 3:34 PM on January 30, 2017 [143 favorites]


Silly question maybe, but do the Senate have to vote on Merrick before they vote on Trumps choice?

I mean, the nomination was made.
It's an active nomination, it wasn't rejected, they just chose not to vote on it.

Seems like it should still be on the todo list shouldn't it?
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 3:35 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


> The intelligence official, who said he was willing to give the Trump administration the benefit of the doubt when it took office, is now deeply troubled by how things are being run.

Which is cool and all, but why anyone would have been willing to give the Trump administration the benefit of the doubt about *anything* in January of 2017 is beyond me.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:35 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


I just point to common values over and over and over again. That means I'm in the pulpit each Sunday saying "Jesus was a refugee" like a broken record. It means I'm at the local school board meetings saying "trans people are people too." It means I'm marching and protesting when I can. It means I'm leading bible studies with people who do not think like me....

You're doing God's work, Stynxno. I mean that literally, even as an agnostic person.
posted by mudpuppie at 3:35 PM on January 30, 2017 [42 favorites]


Shameless little necromancy from the previous thread:
Some reading material in case it doesn't feel like you're winning or if you're concerned your voice doesn't count.

And to contribute something new, this is the only protest sign I've ever needed.
posted by Johann Georg Faust at 3:35 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


The reason I ask about leadership is that it seems, broadly, like there are two directions in which resistance can go. Within existing power structures, and outside of them. The latter seems to take longer and involve more blood.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:35 PM on January 30, 2017


Ms. Yates will be fired by the end of the day. Guarantee it.
posted by suelac at 3:36 PM on January 30, 2017 [53 favorites]


Warren's statement at the Dems' press conference is FIRE. She is saying what I want Dems to acknowledge. This is not business as usual.
posted by prefpara at 3:38 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


Silly question maybe, but do the Senate have to vote on Merrick before they vote on Trumps choice?

No. The nomination expired when the 114th Congress adjourned.
posted by zachlipton at 3:38 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


I called the offices of Senators Murray and Cantwell (both D-WA) again today to ask about their positions on the Sessions confirmation vote. Cantwell hasn’t taken any public position. Murray has criticized Sessions but her staff told me today that, “out of respect for the nomination process” she won’t announce her vote in advance. Both of them voted to confirm Kelly, Mattis, and Haley.

I’m very upset that Democratic senators believe they owe this nomination process any respect at all, after the “respect” their Republican colleagues showed to President Obama’s nominees.
posted by mbrubeck at 3:38 PM on January 30, 2017 [52 favorites]


So, independents breaking for Trump was a big thing this election. But independents track close to Democrats and moderates track close to liberals on the gay marriage question, at least.

On the other hand I have literally been explaining to my mother that actually, once I got my spouse to the US (thanks Windsor) and on my health insurance (thanks Obergefell), I stopped giving two wet shits about marriage and went back to worrying about literally everything else, up to and including legitimizing discrimination against gender non conforming/trans people, because I can talk about being a cis ally all I want but I'm well aware I'm GNC enough for a bigot to notice. My partner is just as GNC and as a bonus has IDed as nonbinary for ten years.

We are afraid. And not about a fucking wedding, either, so could the straight and cis people in the room shut up about gay marriage and take five minutes to familiarize themselves with literally anything that LGBTQ folks deal with, or is that too much to ask? Because in my more cynical moments handling well meaning family I swear it is.
posted by sciatrix at 3:39 PM on January 30, 2017 [78 favorites]


Primary those stupid fucks.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:39 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


Pence promised that the administration would be anti-equality.

Thanks, I hadn't heard about that.
posted by Coventry at 3:40 PM on January 30, 2017


this rant brought to you by the grim reality that tonight I will be walking through this with people who claim to love me but apparently not enough to remember this crap after the tenth time I have walked through it slowly again
posted by sciatrix at 3:41 PM on January 30, 2017 [26 favorites]


making taxpayer funds available for discrimination against LGBTQ people in social services; allow federally funded adoption agencies to discriminate against LGBTQ parents; eliminate non-discrimination protections in order to make it possible to fire federal employers and contractors based on their sexual orientation or gender identity

But her speeches to Wall Street...

At what point does the "nonviolent" part of "nonviolent protest" become no longer operative? I'm not calling for violence by any means, I'm asking what the actual line is that people are no longer willing to tolerate? If its not allowing discrimination is it jailing people? Not until people start dying? What?
posted by Justinian at 3:41 PM on January 30, 2017


I think the ACT UP playbook will be relevant.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:43 PM on January 30, 2017 [18 favorites]


however if obama sent out a mass email saying arm yourselves for the revolution i would swing my sock full of quarters at the first red hat i saw

But you might walk up next to a St. Louis Cardinals fan and...

Nope, still a good plan.
posted by delfin at 3:44 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


That didn't take so long. White House aide Epshteyn wrote controversial Holocaust memorial statement
Epshteyn, a veteran of the Trump campaign who joined the Trump administration as a special assistant, did not immediately respond to calls and emails. The White House press office did not respond to emails. Epshteyn is a Russian-Jewish immigrant and the descendent of Holocaust survivors.
Frankly, I'm less concerned with the statement than the increasingly awful things they've said to try to defend it, especially Spicer's comments today that indicated he doesn't think they should be criticized for this because Obama wasn't deferential enough to the Israeli government, as if there is any real connection.
posted by zachlipton at 3:45 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


@RobertRaben: Irony alert: The DC Circuit, arbiter of how President Trump's (@potus) Executive Order on regulations will work, is lead by Merrick Garland.
posted by zakur at 3:45 PM on January 30, 2017 [85 favorites]


From my brother, who is a lawyer but not your lawyer: As the Times notes, "Mr. Trump has the authority to fire Ms. Yates, but as the top Senate-confirmed official at the Justice Department, she is the only one authorized to sign foreign surveillance warrants, an essential function at the department."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:48 PM on January 30, 2017 [42 favorites]


Sure, Eurovision is going to be a big surprise this year for the UK entry isn't it? We'll be lucky to get zero, and not for the usual reason that our song is crap, but because we have been even more dickish this year than in some time.
posted by biffa at 5:58 PM on January 30 [−] Favorite added! [!]

Oh biffa, I hadn't thought of that There was also talk last year of letting the USA compete at some point-- maybe easing us in like you did with Australia. I guess that's kaput.



The thing about not having a paper trail though is there is plausible deniability. If you don't give me exact orders written down, I can easily skip over the things I don't want to do and claim I was never told that was my responsibility.



I listened to The Weeds Podcast today and they brought up something I hadn't realized-- that the ban on the 7 countries is different from the ban on refugees-- even though there is considerable overlap. For example Christian Syrians might be let in under the country ban but not under the refugee ban. Also the refugee ban lasts 120 days while the 7 state ban lasts 90.

It is becoming more clear that Sessions had a heavy hand in crafting this because he has always been anti-immigration, even legal immigration and Steve Miller worked for him previously. I hope the Senate is aware of this and he does not get confirmed. For years Republicans have been adhering to a policy of "legal immigration is good for the country/ we are only against undocumented immigration." We'll see how that lasts. They sure do talk up stories about saving persecuted Christians.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:48 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


@RobertRaben: Irony alert: The DC Circuit, arbiter of how President Trump's (@potus) Executive Order on regulations will work, is lead by Merrick Garland.

Filed under: You can't make this shit up if you tried.
posted by Jalliah at 3:48 PM on January 30, 2017 [24 favorites]


So Sally Yates, who led the prosecution against homophobic white-supremacist abortion clinic-bombing terrorist Eric Rudolph, has said, in essence, "if you want the DOJ defending this in court before Beauregard is confirmed, fire me. I dare you. Also, Rudy911's love of being on TV fucked you over big time."
posted by holgate at 3:49 PM on January 30, 2017 [71 favorites]


I'm sure they can find a workaround for the FISA warrants, like just not bothering.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:50 PM on January 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


Another Trump thread, another Trump drawing.
I think it's set up so that anyone can download it they so desire, or at least share on the facebooks.
My god, it's endless, isn't it, this shit.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 3:50 PM on January 30, 2017 [15 favorites]


I'm sure they can find a workaround for the FISA warrants, like just not bothering.

Yeah, that's what I would expect. The FISA warrants are secret, after all. How is the public or the press going to know if the searches are conducted without a warrant?

Trump does not care about the rule of law. Period.
posted by suelac at 3:52 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Burhanistan: "Van Susteren has the author of the travel ban on now and boy is he a doublespeak dead-eyed fuck."

Is it Stephen Miller? I bet it's Stephen Miller. I mean, I saw on Twitter that it was probably some combination of Ste[ph|v]ens Miller and Bannon behind it, but "dead-eyed fuck" (as opposed to "gin-blossomed pustule") is definitely Miller, right?
posted by mhum at 3:53 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


Cantwell and Murray have both been WA senators since the 1990s, back when Democrats locally were pretty much DINO conservatives, and both of them haven't really evolved at all. Murray is more activist and visible, Cantwell is practically non-existent even on the local radar. Time for primaries.
posted by azuresunday at 3:53 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


The House of Commons is having an emergency debate on the immigration EO, and it's actually rather good - not much mistaking the distress and opposition to it across the benches.
posted by Devonian at 3:54 PM on January 30, 2017 [19 favorites]


This is hilarious and says so much about our Idiot in Chief.

Trump gives an inaccurate explanation of how pipelines are built and shipped

Speaking to a group of small business leaders, Trump described a process that "hurts the pipe"...

"These are big pipes. Now, the only way I can imagine they [ship them] is they must have to cut them. Because they're so big, I can't imagine — they take up so much room — I can't imagine you could put that much pipe on ships. It's not enough. It's not long enough," he said.

"So I assume they have to fabricate and cut, which hurts the pipe, by the way," he said.

A spokesperson for the Association of Oil Pipe Lines said he had never heard of foreign pipe makers cutting segments into portions to send them overseas. Manufacturers create pipes in lengths that can be shipped rather than chopping up vast lengths of pipe.


He admits he has no idea how the pipelines are made but has to "imagine" out loud. Oh well, luckily for me he made an ass out of himself again.
posted by futz at 3:55 PM on January 30, 2017 [89 favorites]


From my brother, who is a lawyer but not your lawyer: As the Times notes, "Mr. Trump has the authority to fire Ms. Yates, but as the top Senate-confirmed official at the Justice Department, she is the only one authorized to sign foreign surveillance warrants, an essential function at the department."

wow, Trump might bumble into doing something good for once, seeing as that's how domestic mass surveillance is authorized.
posted by indubitable at 3:55 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


If it was anyone less ridiculous than Rudy Giuliani saying it, you'd have to think his comments on Fox News were a deliberate act of sabotage. I mean, outright admitting discriminatory intent on national TV? That's what you'd say if you were trying to intentionally set up evidence to be used against the administration in a legal challenge. Or if you were a moron. Yeah, I think it's that one actually.
posted by zachlipton at 3:55 PM on January 30, 2017 [34 favorites]


Stephen Miller is what you get when a C-list radio host drunkenly mates with a lamppost.
posted by delfin at 3:56 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


Is it Stephen Miller? I bet it's Stephen Miller. I mean, I saw on Twitter that it was probably some combination of Ste[ph|v]ens Miller and Bannon behind it, but "dead-eyed fuck" (as opposed to "gin-blossomed pustule") is definitely Miller, right?

It is indeed Miller, and this man is not only a dead-eyed fuck but a toxic-slime-producing pustule.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:56 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


wah wahahahaha wah wa. Cut the pipes hahaha-

*sob*
posted by Namlit at 3:56 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


"These are big pipes. Now, the only way I can imagine they [ship them] is they must have to cut them. Because they're so big, I can't imagine — they take up so much room — I can't imagine you could put that much pipe on ships. It's not enough. It's not long enough," he said.

Wait. Did Trump think they manufactured big oil pipelines in one piece? And because they're made overseas they have to cut them up so they fit on a ship, but if they made them domestically, they'd just make a single pipe segment miles and miles long?

This makes "series of tubes" seem well-considered.
posted by zachlipton at 3:57 PM on January 30, 2017 [89 favorites]


I'm sure they can find a workaround for the FISA warrants, like just not bothering.

FWIW, the Bush administration tried that, and the FISA court paddled them. Judges don't take kindly to having their authority undermined. The conflict is described in Weiner's history of the FBI, Enemies, IIRC.
posted by Coventry at 3:58 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


This is a clothing label from a small American company that sells their product in France. Here's the translation of the French part of the label:

Wash with warm water.
Use mild soap.
Dry flat.
Do not use bleach.
Do not dry in the dryer.
Do not iron.
We are sorry that our president is an idiot. We did not vote for him.
posted by zakur at 3:58 PM on January 30, 2017 [84 favorites]


Trump's private speeches must set records for awkward silences.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:59 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


idiot is what we called GWB II. We need stronger words.
posted by zutalors! at 3:59 PM on January 30, 2017 [26 favorites]


Let them try to lock up Clinton. It will make her into America's Aung San Suu Kyi overnight.
posted by um at 3:59 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


zakur: that's been going around since 2012 at least and probably earlier
posted by flatluigi at 3:59 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm sure they can find a workaround for the FISA warrants, like just not bothering.

FWIW, the Bush administration tried that, and the FISA court paddled them. Judges don't take kindly to having their authority undermined. The conflict is described in Weiner's history of the FBI, Enemies, IIRC.


Oh, so the pride and effectiveness of a few secret judges is what protects the country? That's fine then. No worries.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:59 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


"So I assume they have to fabricate and cut, which hurts the pipe, by the way," he said.

It's true, the pipe screams and bleeds and they have to cauterize it right away or the pipe will die. A much better technique is to import immature pipes and grow them to size on a feedlot, but that takes more time.
posted by contraption at 4:00 PM on January 30, 2017 [124 favorites]


Stephen Miller is what you get when a C-list radio host drunkenly mates with a lamppost.

Duke's second-proudest graduate! (Nixon is first, of course)
posted by indubitable at 4:00 PM on January 30, 2017


And because they're made overseas they have to cut them up so they fit on a ship, but if they made them domestically, they'd just make a single pipe segment miles and miles long?

Well, I hope they don't make the uni-pipe in Florida because MAN would transporting it to the Dakotas hold up traffic.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:01 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


This is a clothing label from a small American company that sells their product in France.

It's Tom Binh and they did it a decade ago for W Bush and it's not France, it's a kind of jokey version of Canadian bilingual labelling. Otherwise, all true.
posted by holgate at 4:01 PM on January 30, 2017 [21 favorites]


At what point does the "nonviolent" part of "nonviolent protest" become no longer operative? I'm not calling for violence by any means, I'm asking what the actual line is that people are no longer willing to tolerate? If its not allowing discrimination is it jailing people? Not until people start dying? What?

We're still at the stage of figuring out what will compel ordinary, non-activist people out to protest. I think there is a lot more we can do in that area before we start talking violence. I asked my husband that question this weekend because so far he has shown no desire to protest. I will be asking my daughter that question tonight because she is pansexual and many of her friends are in the LGBTQ community. Both of my loved ones voted for Clinton and stay up on political news but...they haven't felt the pull to do more. So I think there is room to motivate people like them. What it will take, I still don't know.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:01 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


Found a snopes link about the tag, it's from 2004 and about GWB.
posted by flatluigi at 4:01 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


idiot is what we called GWB II. We need stronger words.

Fascist.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 4:02 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


the pride and effectiveness of a few secret judges is what protects the country? That's fine then. No worries.

I completely agree that the whole FISA scheme is ripe for abuse. But they can't just ignore the FISA judges.
posted by Coventry at 4:02 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Duke

That explains everything.
posted by delfin at 4:02 PM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


Has the Google Doodle been mentioned yet?

Google makes a strong statement by putting Japanese internment camp survivor on home page
posted by futz at 4:02 PM on January 30, 2017 [19 favorites]


"So I assume they have to fabricate and cut, which hurts the pipe, by the way," he said.

This is amazing. Straw man being created in real time.

I don't know how pipes are built.

This is how I think they build pipes.

That is a horrible these people are doing when they build pipe in this way. That I just forgot I made up.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:03 PM on January 30, 2017 [34 favorites]


I think the wheels are coming off the bus. Bannon is in over his head. You can't run the entire government with one person and the border patrol. It'll take a few weeks, but he'll be gone soon.
posted by My Dad at 4:03 PM on January 30, 2017


Speaking of Stephen Miller, here's an article posted today on Mother Jones, The Dark History of the White House Aides Who Crafted Trump's "Muslim Ban":
As a member of the Duke Conservative Union, Miller worked closely with Richard Spencer, a Ph.D. student who would later coin the term "alt-right" and become a leading white nationalist [Ed. note - and also get punched in the face twice in one day]. Spencer told me that at Duke, Miller helped him with fundraising and promotion for an on-campus debate on immigration policy that Spencer organized in 2007, featuring influential white nationalist Peter Brimelow. Miller vehemently denied to me that he had any connection to Spencer or his ideas, but another former member of the Duke Conservative Union confirmed to me that Miller and Spencer worked together on the Brimelow event. And at DCU meetings, according to another past member of the group, Miller denounced multiculturalism and expressed concerns that immigrants from non-European countries were not assimilating.
Ed. note mine.
posted by mhum at 4:04 PM on January 30, 2017 [28 favorites]


Trump gives an inaccurate description of how pipelines are built

Missed headline opportunity: Trump has problems laying pipe.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:04 PM on January 30, 2017 [41 favorites]


A Google doodle counts as a "strong statement?" That's the most passive aggressive thing I've ever heard of.
posted by crashlanding at 4:05 PM on January 30, 2017 [35 favorites]


It'll take a few weeks, but he'll be gone soon.

I would take much more comfort in talk like this if I hadn't been hearing similar things (for different values of "he") for over a year now.
posted by contraption at 4:06 PM on January 30, 2017 [24 favorites]


I don't think the question is that simple, Justinian. Violence isn't a last resort just because of the immediate harm that it does to human bodies. It's also a last resort because it's difficult to control and has unpredictable outcomes. It frequently is counterproductive.

I can easily imagine retributions for violent protest falling down the hardest on people who protestors are trying to protect, for example. I can also imagine violent protest resulting in stronger crackdowns against protest, eroding popular support for the opposition, and accomplishing nothing in the process.

So you can be willing to do violence, and suffer violence, before you think it's a good idea.

I now what a lot of people are thinking. If the people in power don't respect the law, what are the legal methods to remove them? The legal ways to remove or curtail Trump reside with the Republicans, who care more about protecting their power than protecting the country. I don't have a good answer. But I really do not see what violence will accomplish. We may be in a situation with no good answers.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 4:07 PM on January 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


Tactically it's probably better if there's no single leader of the resistance.

Also while the Democratic party needs to get its act together on a strategy, and start figuring out what direction to go in on a local, regional, and national level, the anti-Trump Resistance could only be harmed by identifying with a partisan figure, be that Clinton, Sanders, Obama or Santa Claus.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:07 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


He admits he has no idea how the pipelines are made but has to "imagine" out loud. Oh well, luckily for me he made an ass out of himself again.

I work with engineers who design pipelines* (rarely oil, usually water/sewer) and I know some of them voted for him. I wonder how I can work this dumbfuckery into the conversation.

*they have good stories about things that get dug up during construction. Also I learned that when visiting pipes being put in in west Texas, you are wise to buy snake-proof boots. I just wanted to share that.
posted by emjaybee at 4:07 PM on January 30, 2017 [12 favorites]


democracy.io use case/feature request:

First: Awesome and thanks for sharing this! I have used it to email the 3 congress members that come up when I input my address.

Request/use case: I want to start contacting people to oppose specific bills. Example: Bill 621 to sell off federal lands. The committee is the House Committee on Natural Resources and (I think) you can contact anyone on that committee in reference to the bill... you aren't limited to only the members who's district you're in. Is it possible to use this site to email a specific Congressperson? (Or at least the ones that already have their emails in this system?)
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 4:07 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


At what point does the "nonviolent" part of "nonviolent protest" become no longer operative? I'm not calling for violence by any means, I'm asking what the actual line is that people are no longer willing to tolerate?

Everyone should figure this out for themselves, but sweet Jesus, do not answer this online.
posted by corb at 4:08 PM on January 30, 2017 [43 favorites]


Canadian here, so bear with my lack of understanding of US government:

The 3-pillar system of legislative, executive and judicial branches is codified in the constitution, correct? Along with the system of checks and balances any one branch has with the others?
So my question is, how much of that system of checks and balances is dependent on each branch recognizing and acquiescing to those limits to their own power, recognizing the authority of the other branches, and recognizing the supremacy of the written constitution? What happens if the executive branch says no, and just ignores the courts and congress, including ignoring the results an impeachment finding, if it comes to that?

Because it seems that's what's coming, if it isn't happening already.
posted by rocket88 at 4:08 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


I've given a fair amount of thought back to the campaign when it was revealed that Trump asked Kaisich if he wanted to be the most powerful Vice President ever... Maybe Trump meant only the ask, and had no intention of reeling in his own powers, moreso just allowing the VP to act with total impunity as well...

Well, fuck... Nate Silver wasn't the only one that misread that statement in analysis.
posted by Nanukthedog at 4:09 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Tell me again about how the EO only "inconvienced" 100 people at the airport:

Scientific America After Trump Order, Hospitals Scramble to Aid Patients Slated for U.S. Care
Johns Hopkins Medicine has found at least 11 patients who live in the Muslim-majority nations targeted by the immigration ban—Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Syria, Sudan, and Yemen—and who were set to travel to the United States in the next 90 days for medical care. Another major health system, Cleveland Clinic, told STAT that it had nine patients scheduled to come to the United States for care from the affected countries.

“These are very, very ill patients,” Pamela Paulk, president of Johns Hopkins Medicine International, told STAT. “In most cases, these are not cases to be postponed.”
So far we have stories about students, patients, tech employees, college professors, children uniting with their parents, all being affected by the ban. Heckava Job! Brownie Bannon.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:09 PM on January 30, 2017 [66 favorites]


I watched Inglorious Basterds the other day.

Considering current events, seeing a depiction of Hitler getting machine-gunned in the face and then explode in a giant fireball was very theraputic. I highly recommend it.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:11 PM on January 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


In the mene tyme Chaucer doth tweet messages of hope.
posted by Hypatia at 4:11 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


A Google doodle counts as a "strong statement?" That's the most passive aggressive thing I've ever heard of.

More strong would be stuff like the giving fund and both employees and founders demonstrating/etc.

(And other actions, these are the top 3 from the last few days I can think of)
posted by thefoxgod at 4:12 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


idiot is what we called GWB II. We need stronger words.
I'm thinking some sort of fungus, but one that has the capacity to feel hate.
posted by bibliowench at 4:12 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


A reporter at Wired states that if Yates is fired/forced to resign, Comey would go with her.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:12 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


including ignoring the results an impeachment finding,

This is where the investment in light rail pays off.

Now you need some tar and feathers with the light rail ya get to tied to and then carried outta town and I'm betting you can find people to carry the rail.

(Really, there are people with an ability to use physical detention and will use such)
posted by rough ashlar at 4:13 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Van Susteren has the author of the travel ban Stpehen Miller on now and boy is he a doublespeak dead-eyed fuck.

so how we s'posed to tell them apart?
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:13 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


It'll take a few weeks, but he'll be gone soon.

Not unless we reach into that den of snakes and frog march him out ourselves. That's literally the only thing I've learned this year. We cannot afford to assume we've won until we have tangible proof in our hands and our properly elected officials again sit in the halls of power.

Never again will I be able to trust that everything will be okay without sustained public action. Never again will I be capable of trusting smug predictions that everything will be fine if we just hunker down for some unspecified time period. Never again will I rest easy in the faith I once put in my nation.

We have to keep going.
posted by sciatrix at 4:14 PM on January 30, 2017 [68 favorites]



Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Is Exploring "Legislative Options" Against Trump’s Refugee Ban

Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos on Monday issued one of the strongest corporate statements of opposition to President Trump’s refugee ban yet.
In an email to all employees (full text below), Bezos said Amazon does not support the order and is exploring “legislative options” for opposing it. He also noted that Amazon will submit a declaration in support of Washington State Attorney General Bob Ferguson, who is filing a lawsuit in federal court to stop the order.
Bezos, who was among tech executives who met with the president at Trump Tower in December, said Amazon’s legal team has filed a declaration of support of the Washington State Attorney General’s lawsuit against Trump.

posted by Jalliah at 4:14 PM on January 30, 2017 [57 favorites]


From the Mother Jones link
Bannon has lauded Miller, who previously worked for Sen. Jeff Sessions. "Whether the issue was trade or immigration or radical Islam, for many years before Donald Trump came on the scene, Sen. Sessions was the leader of the movement and Stephen was his right-hand man," Bannon told Politico in June.
We keep talking about the Miller-Bannon EO but don't forget there is talk that Sessions actually crafted the bill. This is what we need to stress when calling our Senators. Jeff Sessions is notoriously anti-immigration, ALL immigration. That is un-American. He should not be AG for the USA.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:15 PM on January 30, 2017 [18 favorites]


how much of that system of checks and balances is dependent on each branch recognizing and acquiescing to those limits to their own power, recognizing the authority of the other branches, and recognizing the supremacy of the written constitution?

All of it, essentially? That's the thing with presidentialism: it's a zero-sum decision on who has ultimate authority over the state monopoly on violence.
posted by holgate at 4:16 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


idiot is what we called GWB II. We need stronger words.

Santorum.
posted by ZeusHumms at 4:16 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


I don't want to link directly, but I read a comment in a private group about how they are part of a non-political Discord channel. The members of that channel have taken to arguing politics, with several alt-right trumpists as the opposition. One of those alt-right people revealed that he had called the secret service on a prominent member of the leftists, and falsely claimed death threats. I don't want to be alarmist, but I do want to say be careful out there, especially in arguing online.

One line of defense I can think of is making it so that there's so much verbal outcry on social media that it's futile to pick out individuals. It's herd mentality, but I think it works in that situation.

I'm not sure what we do if the nature of the Secret Service suddenly changes or if a new paramilitary group is developed to "protect" the president... I can't think about that right now.
posted by codacorolla at 4:16 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


When I was veddy young, I had a toy flatbed truck (red) that carried little sections of toy pipe (yellow), which had little bits at each end that fitted together. Later in my childhood, our house got connected to the city sewerage system, and a big truck pulled up with big sections of real pipe, with bits at each end that fitted together. Many times on TV, I saw news and documentaries about the oil industry (you have one of those in the US, right?) and many others, which all had pipes of various sizes, all working in the same way.

I also note that if you see any sort of substantial pipework, and there's an awful lot in our lives, there it is again.

I am truly amazed - even given everything I already know about the profoundly incurious, unobservant and unintelligent mind of Donnie - that he has failed to absorb any of this, and presumably thought... what, exactly? Information easily available to a six year old in rural England has apparently passed him by.
posted by Devonian at 4:17 PM on January 30, 2017 [26 favorites]


> What happens if the executive branch says no, and just ignores the courts and congress, including ignoring the results an impeachment finding, if it comes to that?

Well Congress has a Sargeant at Arms, but is equally powerless to stop the executive as the Supreme Court was at stopping Andrew Jackson. At some level, borrowing capacity is a limit, should congress choose to defund the executive.

But this presupposes a Congressional majority isn't on board with the Trump administration's plans, which comes with a heavy dose of Citation Needed.
posted by pwnguin at 4:17 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


A reporter at Wired states that if Yates is fired/forced to resign, Comey would go with her.
She's not going to be fired. They'll just fast-track the Sessions nomination. Sessions will be confirmed by Friday, and he'll do everything Bannon wants him to do.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:17 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


What happens if the executive branch says no, and just ignores the courts and congress, including ignoring the results an impeachment finding, if it comes to that?

We activate the Deep-Deep-Deep-State to take out the Deep-Deep-State. Naww, just kidding, all of law enforcement will probably fall in line behind Trump.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:18 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


This just came up on Twitter. I side-eye linguistics pretty hard for reasons outside the scope of this thread, but this might have some merit?
posted by pxe2000 at 4:18 PM on January 30, 2017 [24 favorites]


idiot is what we called GWB II. We need stronger words.

I vote for Fuckhead.
posted by INFJ at 4:18 PM on January 30, 2017


I'm thinking some sort of fungus, but one that has the capacity to feel hate.

A myconid?
posted by um at 4:19 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


And I just learned that my father has given my address to my aunt--the one currently angling for a place in the new Trump administration, who has been determinedly trying to get access to both my partner and myself via Facebook friending but not actually contacting us for a week and a half now. The one who has been my grandmother's spoiled pet child these thirty or forty years.

Motherfucker. If you feel the need to warn me to tell you if she sends us anything, maybe you could fucking ask before you hand out my home address like it's nothing!
posted by sciatrix at 4:20 PM on January 30, 2017 [23 favorites]


At what point does the "nonviolent" part of "nonviolent protest" become no longer operative? I'm not calling for violence by any means, I'm asking what the actual line is that people are no longer willing to tolerate?

Chomsky on the legitimacy of political violence
...here is a tendency to assume that a stand based on an absolute moral judgment shows high principle in a way that’s not shown in a stand taken on what are disparagingly referred to as “tactical grounds.” I think this is a pretty dubious assumption. If tactics involves a calculation of the human cost of various actions, then tactical considerations are actually the only considerations that have a moral quality to them. So I can’t accept a general and absolute opposition to violence, only that resort to violence is illegitimate unless the consequences are to eliminate a greater evil.

With this formulation, however, one moves from the abstract discussion to the context of concrete historical circumstances where there are shades of gray and obscure complex relations between means and ends and uncalculable consequences of actions, and so on and so forth. Formulated in these terms, the advocates of a qualified commitment to nonviolence have a pretty strong case. I think they can claim with very much justice that in almost all real circumstances there is a better way than resort to violence.

...the real issue today is the all-importance of the refusal to participate in violence, the refusal to fight. I think that’s not only crucial for the Vietnam War but a terribly crucial, central thing for us citizens of the world dominant power, the world’s major aggressive power — that we use the freedoms that still exist in it to try to build up resistance to participation in war. As to the tactics of the peace movement, I think there are very strong reasons in favor of nonviolence. The first reason — which Professor Hans Morgenthau described quite eloquently — is that the government happens to have a monopoly of terror. Therefore violence is simply suicidal. There is no way of combatting the terror, the violence that the government can use in response to any use of violence that the peace movement might adopt. And the situation is clearly getting worse. [He said this in 1967.]
posted by Coventry at 4:21 PM on January 30, 2017 [13 favorites]



Nicer news.

Icelandic President invites Syrian refugees to his official
residence


Five Syrian families, part of a new group of Syrian refugees invited by the Icelandic Government to settle in Iceland were received by President Guðni Th. Jóhannesson this afternoon. The President told them that Iceland wanted to show compassion, tolerance and an open mind.

"Icelanders cannot save the world. We cannot receive everyone fleeing their homes and powerful nations have to take action for peace in areas of war. But we can however do our bit by offering a secure shelter and by improving our society in showing compassion, tolerance and an open mind."

President Jóhannesson quoted former US President Franklind D. Roosevelt, and said we have nothing to fear except fear itself. and then welcomed the group to Iceland.

"In Iceland we defend human rights: equality of the sexes, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of travel and last but not least freedom from fear. I welcome you with all my heart to Iceland."

posted by Jalliah at 4:21 PM on January 30, 2017 [54 favorites]


I could be wrong, because I've stopped making predictions about politics, but I think an anti-LGB (wish I were more sure about the T, unfortunately) executive order would be really, really significant overreach. If you want to know what Trump could do that would get my nice, polite, white, Christian Iowan friends out in the street, I think that might be it. That's people's families: it's their parents and siblings and children. That's the kind of thing that I think people would do a general strike over.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:21 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


I don't want to be alarmist, but I do want to say be careful out there, especially in arguing online.

Linked by Coventry in the last thread: Twitter Activist Security
posted by indubitable at 4:21 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


His thoughts were red thoughts: "I watched Inglorious Basterds the other day."

I saw on Instagram a sign from the LAX protest this weekend carried by a college-aged Indian-Persian woman that just said "100 Nazi scalps". I know that MeFi recently had a whole back-and-forth about the morality of violence in general and punching Nazis in particular but, not gonna lie, I kinda dug that sign.
posted by mhum at 4:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [20 favorites]


This just came up on Twitter. I side-eye linguistics pretty hard for reasons outside the scope of this thread, but this might have some merit?

Ok I have no idea if he's right or not but I love him now because of:
-esque. They'd spell it as -esk because QU is a mysterious bastard of a diphthong.
posted by INFJ at 4:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


Some days the worst part of all this is having to face the callousness and blindness of people related to us. I'm sorry sciatrix.
posted by emjaybee at 4:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


I'm thinking some sort of fungus, but one that has the capacity to feel hate.

So something from the works of Lovecraft? Yuggoth fungi?
posted by rough ashlar at 4:23 PM on January 30, 2017


If fired, Yates could just draft a quick order that she's now on double-secret probation instead. Y'know, fuck it.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:23 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


The eight year old girl killed in yesterday's botched raid in Yemen was a US citizen.

It's already happened.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:24 PM on January 30, 2017 [36 favorites]


This just came up on Twitter. I side-eye linguistics pretty hard for reasons outside the scope of this thread, but this might have some merit?

looks like pseudoscientific bullshit to me.
posted by indubitable at 4:24 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


A myconid?

No way is Trump lawful neutral.
posted by bibliowench at 4:25 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


'Hottest places in hell' reserved for those remaining neutral: Former US Ambassador unleashes on Trump

Mr Bleich, now a chair of the J. William Fulbright Board, said he had never before issued a statement condemning the actions of the United States government.

But he said as an "American, patriot and human being" he had no choice but to speak out and said: "None of us should be silent."

posted by futz at 4:25 PM on January 30, 2017 [41 favorites]


My mother is a privileged white southern baptist lady who's never cared about politics. If she voted before I was around, it was for Republicans until 2012 Obama (couldn't get over Romney being Mormon, and I wasn't about to look that gift horse in the mouth) and 2016 Clinton. Even voting for Clinton though, it seemed like more of a anti-Trump vote. I've never really see her get worked up about any political cause before.

I just got off a 30-minute phone call where no part of it was not spent complaining about this executive order. She saw I went to a protest and wanted to know all about it, then wanted to tell me all about how the Dallas mayor had personally apologized to all the immigrants detained at DFW airport and she thought that was nice. She went on a long rant about how she had 'prayed all night' about what was going on in the world, and she read an article about how former Southern Baptist Convention president Bryant Wright condemned the order [I think this is what she's talking about] and how she wished she was at a church that was getting involved. Her church is currently building a multi-million dollar facility and she 'kinda wishes they were spending that money paying a refugee's rent'. She said she hoped someone got a case in front of the Supreme Court and I told her about the ACLU and how we'd given $20 this weekend and she asked that I send her a link because maybe she should too. I don't think she's ever donated money to a political group or candidate before.

This kinda rambled on, but I'm just blown away. This is what winning the culture war looks like.
posted by DynamiteToast at 4:25 PM on January 30, 2017 [184 favorites]


Yuggoth fungi?

The Outer Ones were emissaries of goodwill from beyond spacetime that welcomed all sentient beings into their multiversal society of monsters. They would resent the comparison.
posted by byanyothername at 4:27 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


This just came up on Twitter. I side-eye linguistics pretty hard for reasons outside the scope of this thread, but this might have some merit?

This is why I love this account so much. Who is doing it? It's a mystery! No matter who it is, it's tweeting out plausible info that undermines what's going on there. And if it's not people connected with actual staff.. then what is it's purpose.

It's Bannon: Okay why would he do it?
It's Russia : Okay why would they do it?

I'm not treating it as real or insight into the truth but it is interesting to read and contemplate it's purpose.
posted by Jalliah at 4:28 PM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


Law enforcement and military support the fascist by large margins. The house of Rep is gerrymandered to hell, and will get worse. Because of the Senate and electoral college, legislative power continues to pool disproportionately in rural states. Most industries are in a state of de-regulated, oligarchal heaven. The executive is already ignoring the judiciary, and is actively creating a shadow security state. And the past two presidents spent collectively 16 years building and expanding a security state based on surveillance that has now become ubiquitous because of the internet and social media, which is controlled by a handful of companies. And half the country supports this.

How are we supposed to confront this?

Again, not a rhetorical question. Really grasping st anything at this point.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:28 PM on January 30, 2017 [19 favorites]


I'm thinking some sort of fungus, but one that has the capacity to feel hate.

A myconid?


ARAUMYCOS, CONSORT OF ZUGGTMOY!
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:29 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


This kinda rambled on, but I'm just blown away. This is what winning the culture war looks like.


There are more of us than there are of them, and there are still more of us every day.
posted by Devonian at 4:29 PM on January 30, 2017 [16 favorites]


Pence promised that the administration would be anti-equality.

Reminiscent of another vice president:
The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically.
...
Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races.
...
Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:30 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


How are we supposed to confront this?

At the moment, wake up, get out of bed everyday, support those who need supporting and remain loud. Give money where you can, show up where you can, call the people you can. To whit, agitate, educate, organize.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:31 PM on January 30, 2017 [16 favorites]


I side-eye linguistics pretty hard for reasons outside the scope of this thread, but this might have some merit?

You, uh, you side-eye the study of language?
posted by No-sword at 4:33 PM on January 30, 2017 [20 favorites]


This just came up on Twitter. I side-eye linguistics pretty hard for reasons outside the scope of this thread, but this might have some merit?

it's literally just because "-esque" makes the tweet too many characters
posted by burgerrr at 4:33 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


Tactically it's probably better if there's no single leader of the resistance.

Movie scene: I'm Spartacus.
posted by ZeusHumms at 4:33 PM on January 30, 2017


Y'all have it wrong. Instead of thinking of better and better insults to sling at that slug squatting in the White House, just get used to spitting the name Trump as a slur for every foul, traitorous, short sighted, thoughtless occasion and person you can think of.

Make trump go down as the same insult as we use for quislings and Benedict Arnolds and, yes, santorum. And use it liberally enough that in ten years school children never realize that a trump was a person first before it was an insult.

It seems a fitting legacy.
posted by sciatrix at 4:34 PM on January 30, 2017 [41 favorites]


So Trump's gotten to the Saturday Night Massacre in just his second week. Impressive, at this rate he'll be impeached by April
posted by Zonker at 4:35 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Y'all have it wrong. Instead of thinking of better and better insults to sling at that slug squatting in the White House, just get used to spitting the name Trump as a slur for every foul, traitorous, short sighted, thoughtless occasion and person you can think of.

UGH, WHO TRUMPED?!
posted by indubitable at 4:36 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]



Y'all have it wrong. Instead of thinking of better and better insults to sling at that slug squatting in the White House


Well, I just made a comment that "idiot" was what we called GWB, and that turned out to be the origin of the clothing label anyway. I'm certainly not spending my time thinking of insults for Trump.
posted by zutalors! at 4:36 PM on January 30, 2017


Instead of thinking of better and better insults to sling at that slug squatting in the White House, just get used to spitting the name Trump as a slur for every foul, traitorous, short sighted, thoughtless occasion and person you can think of.

Exactly. And tie the (R) to his name whenever possible so that "Republican" can become as poisonous in some quarters as "liberal" is in others.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:36 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Y'all have it wrong. Instead of thinking of better and better insults to sling at that slug squatting in the White House, just get used to spitting the name Trump as a slur for every foul, traitorous, short sighted, thoughtless occasion and person you can think of.

Gordon Bennett! That's a brilliant idea!
posted by RonButNotStupid at 4:36 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


Today my husband and I contacted his school and offered our spare bedroom for any students who must stay in the US over university breaks for fear of not being let back in again after. If you live in a university town maybe contact their office of international relations and let them know if you'd be willing to do the same.
posted by chainsofreedom at 4:37 PM on January 30, 2017 [57 favorites]


Give me your hungry, your tired, your poor, I'll piss on 'em. That's what the Statue of Bigotry says.

I know Lou wasn't perfect, but those lyrics are still relevant--they're basically the motto of the Groupies Of Putin.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:37 PM on January 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


How are we supposed to confront this?

Let it be told to the future world, that in the depth of winter, when nothing but hope and virtue could survive, that the city and the country, alarmed at one common danger, came forth to meet and to repulse it. Say not that thousands are gone, turn out your tens of thousands; throw not the burden of the day upon Providence, but "show your faith by your works," that God may bless you.
--Tom Paine, The American Crisis (No.1)
posted by Hypatia at 4:38 PM on January 30, 2017 [26 favorites]


use it liberally enough that in ten years school children never realize that a trump was a person first before it was an insult.

Bender: Kiss my shiny metal trump.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:38 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Considering current events, seeing a depiction of Hitler getting machine-gunned in the face and then explode in a giant fireball was very theraputic. I highly recommend it.

I rented Anthropoid. For some reason movies about partisans killing the fuck out of Nazis is really appealing at the moment. Next up: Black Book and Flame and Citron.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:39 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


There is a picture on twitter that appears to be a family held at Dulles airport: 3 people including a small child all in handcuffs who were then apparently sent back to Syria. According to Barry Goldberg, the original twitter account that uploaded the picture was deleted due to threats.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:39 PM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


At what point does the "nonviolent" part of "nonviolent protest" become no longer operative? I'm not calling for violence by any means, I'm asking what the actual line is that people are no longer willing to tolerate?

The Axis of Violence/Non-Violence:
Non-violence workshops often start with a small game to help folk work out their line in the sand. The X axis represents the range from very non-violent to very violent and the Y axis represents how strategic or useful, or not, a particular non-violent/violent act may be in achieving your purposes: very useful, or not at all. The facilitator asks a number of questions (often related to the protest situation that the workshop was booked for) and each person plots themselves. It can be very elucidating, and helps understand each other's perspective in the group.

Two things are vital for successfully protesting in a non-violent manner: training and cooling. The first provides the basics and allows understanding of what non-violence looks like. The other is a role that occurs during the protest where any escalation is immediately cooled down by a colleague.

We're still at the stage of figuring out what will compel ordinary, non-activist people out to protest. I think there is a lot more we can do in that area before we start talking violence.

I disagree very strongly. You must start talking non-violence/violence at the point of recruitment, and model non-violence at every point along the way.
posted by Thella at 4:40 PM on January 30, 2017 [12 favorites]


for anyone curious about what some of the military officers are thinking about the recent news, this comment on /r/Military has been getting a lot of attention.

(short version: there's still a lot of Trump support, but it has eroded fast in the last week, and the Muslim ban accelerated it. In the end, though, I think, where Mattis goes the military will follow. That's probably a not insignificant reason for why Trump gave him the short leash of being in his Cabinet.)
posted by bl1nk at 4:41 PM on January 30, 2017 [16 favorites]


Rep. Charlie Dent is on MSNBC reporting that the CBP detained, revoked the visas of, and sent back a family of Syrian (non-refugee) Christians who had been working on coming to the US for 14 years.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:42 PM on January 30, 2017 [23 favorites]




Oh come on.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:44 PM on January 30, 2017 [22 favorites]


There you go. Christian refugees. That's the thing that will make people rethink that Trump and Bannon are doing God's work after all
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:45 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


Come on, guys, he was totally going to get around to registering in the other 47. For science, of course.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:45 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


If you're in California, I highly recommend jumping all over Feinstein in any way possible. Five Thirty Eight noted today she's given Trump a 100% voting approval score so far in the Senate, and I've seen several notes from Feinstein-watchers that her office is basically pandering for calls to push her one way or another. This is all absolutely appalling, but the first thing to do is call her & give her hell for it.

Feinstein in DC
Her State Offices
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:45 PM on January 30, 2017 [23 favorites]


So Trump's gotten to the Saturday Night Massacre in just his second week. Impressive, at this rate he'll be impeached by April

You can only be impeached if you consent to be impeached, or if the Congress can bring more force to bear to impeach you than you can to resist it.
posted by kafziel at 4:45 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


I honestly think that despite Trump being a minority president, Bannon believes with the mechanics of our system and the partisanship of the electorate, he can get to fascist dictatorship faster than the majority can get to impeachment.
posted by chris24 at 4:46 PM on January 30, 2017 [23 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: The Democrats are delaying my cabinet picks for purely political reasons. They have nothing going but to obstruct. Now have an Obama A.G.

Life comes at you fast...
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:48 PM on January 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


I disagree very strongly. You must start talking non-violence/violence at the point of recruitment, and model non-violence at every point along the way.
posted by Thella at 7:40 PM on January 30 [+] [!]


Sorry but that is a lot of activist gobblydegook. I'm not recruiting anybody and I am most certainly not going to talk to them about violence. All I am asking of my friends and family is start thinking about what it would take to get them away from their computers and TVs and family dinners and go out to the streets to do a little chanting and display a sign. Walk with like-minded folk and show strength in numbers. There is still a lot of potential for growth in that area.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:49 PM on January 30, 2017 [22 favorites]


Uh, that series of tweets from the Ghost Ryder account is not a serious linguistic analysis and the person who wrote it is obviously not a linguist. It's not even a particularly credible argument. What, your Russian disinformation agent knows English well enough to write those tweets and watch English television shows enough to pick up the word "vacay," but isn't familiar with words ending in -esque?

It's really not worth spreading around, to put it kindly.

Feel free to side-eye me now.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 4:49 PM on January 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


One thing I've not seen mentioned much lately is that the FBI telegraphed very loudly before the election that they have Trump/Bannon/Session's back.

Have you seen the twitter feed of the Border Patrol union? Reads like a Trump campaign blog. If this is truly representative of CBP's membership, the only authority they recognize is Trump.
posted by longdaysjourney at 4:49 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


If you're in California, I highly recommend jumping all over Feinstein in any way possible. Five Thirty Eight noted today she's given Trump a 100% voting approval score so far in the Senate, and I've seen several notes from Feinstein-watchers that her office is basically pandering for calls to push her one way or another.

As I remarked in the last thread, that 538 graphic is embarrassingly misleading. They counted her non-vote while she was out for heart surgery as a "yes" vote. She's no worse than the Dem leaders like Schumer or Kaine, which is to say, still pretty bad.
posted by indubitable at 4:50 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


I've been trying to get through to Feinstein's offices on and off for days, and no joy, and there's no way to leave a message. I have a job, I can't be constantly calling to try to get through during business hours. I've emailed instead, for all the good that will do. Any other tips?
posted by yasaman at 4:50 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


"But the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality," he said.

In Dante, they're kind of wandering around, where it isn't particularly hot, chasing a banner and being stung by insects.
posted by thelonius at 4:50 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


yasaman - someone posted it in the other thread, but send a fax! You can send one for free online at faxzero.com - it even has numbers of senators and representatives preloaded. I sent her two today.
posted by sunset in snow country at 4:53 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


"What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?"
posted by indubitable at 4:55 PM on January 30, 2017 [21 favorites]


This is like a slow-motion train wreck, except faster.
posted by ckape at 4:55 PM on January 30, 2017 [22 favorites]


for anyone curious about what some of the military officers are thinking about the recent news, this comment on /r/Military has been getting a lot of attention.

(short version: there's still a lot of Trump support, but it has eroded fast in the last week, and the Muslim ban accelerated it. In the end, though, I think, where Mattis goes the military will follow. That's probably a not insignificant reason for why Trump gave him the short leash of being in his Cabinet.)


Most telling comment in that thread:

"This jives what i saw happen on AR15.com GD. A Naval officer showed up and basically said" Trump supporter here. WTF is wrong with you people, Bannon has no place at that table"."

AR15.com. GD indeed. Just chip-chip-chipping away at his own base.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:56 PM on January 30, 2017 [22 favorites]


I feel like Bannon just wanting to see the world burn makes the most sense in terms of what's happening right now. I have to say I didn't see such a sweeping Executive Order happening, I thought it would be reinstatement of NSEERS or similar, something quiet enough that most people wouldn't even notice.
posted by zutalors! at 4:57 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


I've emailed instead, for all the good that will do. Any other tips?

FAX
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:58 PM on January 30, 2017


he can get to fascist dictatorship faster than the majority can get to impeachment.

Sometimes the resistance does things like misspell the name on a warrant in Taiwan or cause a missile to rise out of the sea and go no where.

The idea(s) need to be implemented and between idea and boots on the ground implementation you can have people saying "no" - look at the airports who are helping VS not helping on the EO.


Hey....where are the Oathkeepers on Trump? Nov 2016 At the moment - supporting. Wonder what it'll take to have these people waver?
posted by rough ashlar at 4:58 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


I've been trying to get through to Feinstein's offices on and off for days, and no joy, and there's no way to leave a message. I have a job, I can't be constantly calling to try to get through during business hours. I've emailed instead, for all the good that will do. Any other tips?

I've gotten through, but not reliably, and I agree it's profoundly frustrating. I'd make sure to try all her local office numbers, not just the one closest to you, and use this site to send her a fax for free. You have to click the link in the confirmation email it sends to actually make the fax go.
posted by zachlipton at 4:58 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


AP: Trump's voter fraud expert registered in 3 states

Well, that's how you know he's an expert
posted by flatluigi at 4:58 PM on January 30, 2017 [60 favorites]


My southern grandparents who had been in the fox abyss for a long time, but act very socially progressive, supported Trump.

My grandmother, was raised to love anyone. I feel like she watched fox when it wasn't so bad and just never change stations. She has paranoia with health insurance disapearing, and has a heafty dollop of rasism on top
. But I do remember as a kid her taking in families of all races. I remember her willingness to be a part of social causes. She supports my LGBT marriage, (she even remembers to leave messages of love for my wife) and she also came around to her adult grandchildren's marriage to (sarcastic gasp) a black man. She supports us.

After the EO comes out I'm going to call her in tears. I'm going to let her know how they have hurt me directly. And my grandmother who had been voting conservative but loves her family too fiercely to quantify is going to vote Democrat for the rest of her life.

Because I know my grandmother. And she wants great grandbabies.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:59 PM on January 30, 2017 [40 favorites]


I honestly think that despite Trump being a minority president, Bannon believes with the mechanics of our system and the partisanship of the electorate, he can get to fascist dictatorship faster than the majority can get to impeachment.

If he thinks the military will stand for that, I urge him to think again. And that goes double for his motley band of border goons, cops, and Trumpgangs.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:59 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Hey....where are the Oathkeepers on Trump? Nov 2016 At the moment - supporting. Wonder what it'll take to have these people waver?

Hell literally freezing over? That's his base.
posted by Artw at 5:01 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


Warren: Watch live now as I speak out from the Senate floor about @realDonaldTrump's Muslim ban:

http://floor.senate.gov/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=2&event_id=1197
posted by diogenes at 5:01 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


A good friend just forwarded this tweet: https://twitter.com/NYCLU/status/825485580184207360/photo/1
posted by mosk at 5:03 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


What, your Russian disinformation agent knows English well enough to write those tweets and watch English television shows enough to pick up the word "vacay," but isn't familiar with words ending in -esque?

They might not be Russians, but they (whoever "they" are for an anon Twitter account, singular or plural) aren't making the kind of mistakes you'd expect from autocorrect or a native American English speaker, i.e. someone supposedly working sufficiently high up in the White House to Know Things. Low-rent Russian comment trolls are sometimes easy to spot from grammar (they actually forget to use articles, like someone speaking "comedy Russian") but this is a bit different. Not saying I agree with the linguistic stuff: just that it's a bullshit account.
posted by holgate at 5:03 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


How big a deal is it that Democratic Senators are speaking from the Senate floor at this hour?
posted by diogenes at 5:03 PM on January 30, 2017


I just watched bunch of interviews of Conway and some other dude with a funny to pronounce last name (started with a P) and man oh man are they BUTTHURT over the way the media treated them. Conway specifically called out the coverage of his primary run, after he was the republican nominee, during the race against clinton, after he became president elect and then after he was sworn in.

I decided to finally turn them off because they all sounded like whiny babies. "Wah, wah the big horrible media was mean to us! wah!"

Would that whoever was interviewing her said: well your man is a racist fuckhead, all we did was air his fuckheadedness.
posted by INFJ at 5:04 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Chris Hayes has the ACLU lawyer who successfully argued for the stay on the EO on the Muslim Ban on right now.
posted by zutalors! at 5:04 PM on January 30, 2017


Alexandra Petri: Sean Spicer is right. That five-year-old refugee has diabolical plans. [ed. the five-year-old is a US citizen, not a refugee]
He has plans to turn his bed into a spaceship without registering first with NASA. He has plans to invite friends over from school and hold them hostage behind the couch with his whole army of stuffed hippos.

He has plans to carry his sinister associate Bear Bear with him everywhere, to bed and to the dinner table and even to school, and we know how Betsy DeVos feels about bears in schools. Besides, Bear Bear is a foreign operative with a missing eye and almost none of his original fur, always silent, and his motives cannot be adequately discerned.
posted by zachlipton at 5:04 PM on January 30, 2017 [78 favorites]


This is just too much for me. I'm going to bed without reading one comment. But I'm putting in this for therapy for everyone. Good night.
posted by mumimor at 5:05 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Yuggoth fungi?

say what you want about the tenets of nyarlathotep worship but at least it's an ethos
posted by murphy slaw at 5:08 PM on January 30, 2017 [16 favorites]


I just watched bunch of interviews of Conway and some other dude with a funny to pronounce last name (started with a P) and man oh man are they BUTTHURT over the way the media treated them. Conway specifically called out the coverage of his primary run, after he was the republican nominee, during the race against clinton, after he became president elect and then after he was sworn in.

I decided to finally turn them off because they all sounded like whiny babies. "Wah, wah the big horrible media was mean to us! wah!"

Would that whoever was interviewing her said: well your man is a racist fuckhead, all we did was air his fuckheadedness.
posted by INFJ at 9:04 AM on January 31 [1 favorite +] [!]

I enjoy watching them suffer too much to not ask for a link, or the name of the show, or any clue to where I can find their pain.
posted by saysthis at 5:10 PM on January 30, 2017


Hey....where are the Oathkeepers on Trump?

this just twigged me to remember 'bikers for trump'. there were 2 groups of 5 thousand who were awaiting permits days before the inaug. any idea what happened with them? and yes, i know about all the fakes news that trumpledumbfuck fell for that they were en route to dc.
posted by futz at 5:10 PM on January 30, 2017


Senator Blumenthal just now from the Senate floor: "Rip up this order Mr. President. Be on the right side of history. Be on the right side of the Constitution. Rip up this illegal order."
posted by diogenes at 5:10 PM on January 30, 2017 [36 favorites]


I decided to finally turn them off because they all sounded like whiny babies. "Wah, wah the big horrible media was mean to us! wah!"

It's not even the whininess. It's that they explicitly suggest their "suffering" is worse than that of the Muslims they're banning. Like having to go through airport security is equivalent to legal visa and green card holders being forcibly detained and deported -- and they trot out this catalog of their "wounds" right after Holocaust Remembrance Day. I mean god, Spicer was like AGGRIEVED about how horribly Trump was being treated and how he "went out of his way" to commemorate the Holocaust.

Well how bigly of him to do us that yuge favor.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:11 PM on January 30, 2017 [15 favorites]


I am extremely frustrated that neither the Senate Majority nor Minority Leader have mailboxes to take messages on the phone. I feel like since they are the heads of the parties in the Senate, they need to be accountable to all Americans and listening to all of us, even if we're not in their states.

I could say the same thing about all the various committee where legislation is crafted, but some states totally lack representation. I think the chair of committees should have to factor in input from people outside their district on legislation that comes up in their committee.

I guess we can tell our Reps and Senators to pass along messages, but it's not efficient to do that. It should be easy for people to participate in our government, not a crapshoot where you have to be able to set aside 60 minutes a day to make a dozen calls to one understaffed office with no voice mail.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:11 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Warren: "Executive order strikes at the very heart of our democracy."
posted by diogenes at 5:12 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


@ctk86
.@aljwhite people in the U.K. Need to write their local Count or whatever the fuck they have that's like a senator/congressman.

...brought responses including:

@fieldy9999
@ctk86 @aljwhite already on it. I've informed the Mayor of Camberwick Green, the actual Lord of the Rings and the Chairman of Argos.

‏@Tuckineddy
@ctk86 @mutablejoe @aljwhite I've already written to my local gamekeeper AND left a strong message for the Keeper of the Royal Twiglets.

@JohannMurdoch
@ctk86 @aljwhite I'm not going to eat Swan for a week in protest! Old chap
posted by Wordshore at 5:14 PM on January 30, 2017 [47 favorites]


"Isn't in line with American values or our Constitution."
posted by diogenes at 5:14 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


"Do Senate Republicans agree? Then why aren't they here with us?"

"This is a crisis. Senate should take up bill to overturn this illegal order right now."
posted by diogenes at 5:16 PM on January 30, 2017 [25 favorites]


Warren is saying exactly what I want all of them to say. "This is a crisis." "Shocking."
posted by prefpara at 5:16 PM on January 30, 2017 [27 favorites]


Man, we need to get some clerics in the White House to Turn Undead and clear out all the wraiths

because everyone there is FAILING ALL THEIR CONSTITUTION CHECKS
posted by delfin at 5:16 PM on January 30, 2017 [107 favorites]


"Where are you now, Paul Ryan?" BLESS YOU ELIZABETH WARREN. She is going R by R and calling each out by name!
posted by prefpara at 5:17 PM on January 30, 2017 [110 favorites]


Hoping she hits Feinstein next.
posted by contraption at 5:18 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


I enjoy watching them suffer too much to not ask for a link, or the name of the show, or any clue to where I can find their pain.

It's on the trending page for youtube. (I'm not sure if that's universal or curated for me, though)

Chris Wallace GRILLS Kellyanne Conway on Executive Orders Fox News Sunday FULL Interview 1/29/17

Reince Priebus: Immigration Ban Could Include More Countries (Full) | Meet The Press | NBC News

I cut the second one off at about 5:30 in when I decided they were just whining.
posted by INFJ at 5:18 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]



"Where are you now, Paul Ryan?" BLESS YOU ELIZABETH WARREN. She is going R by R and calling each out by name!


We've seen this so many times, but nothing will happen until some Republicans get on board. Like get down there and talk.
posted by zutalors! at 5:19 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


It's nice that Senators are talking in the Senate about this, but show me the money: throw up every procedural road block you have to stop the business of the Senate and this administration while your demands are not met. Until then, it's hot air.
posted by indubitable at 5:19 PM on January 30, 2017 [24 favorites]


Kellyanne Conway: "It's like a pack of Marlboro lights came to life"
posted by porn in the woods at 5:19 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


Go get 'em, Senator Warren.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:20 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Did the livestream just die for anybody else?
posted by diogenes at 5:20 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


It died on me too
posted by alligatorpear at 5:21 PM on January 30, 2017


PUT HER BACK ON MY SCREEN NOW

Edit: Facebook Live link.
posted by theraflu at 5:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


It died on me too.

That's alarming.
posted by diogenes at 5:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


alt sources for the livestream?
posted by xcasex at 5:23 PM on January 30, 2017


Watching Warren's fiery speech is actually making me feel better. So: highly recommend everyone tune in to CSPAN.
posted by prefpara at 5:23 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


You can listen on the C-Span App, Channel CSpan 2.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:23 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


It looks like you can watch her via Facebook Live, but the quality is a bit meh.
posted by jammer at 5:23 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Most telling comment in that thread:

"This jives what i saw happen on AR15.com GD. A Naval officer showed up and basically said" Trump supporter here. WTF is wrong with you people, Bannon has no place at that table"."

AR15.com. GD indeed. Just chip-chip-chipping away at his own base.


That whole thread actually made me feel better. A whole different group of people who I have no contact with and they are seeing the same sorts of things as being pretty messed up. Lots of wtf Bannon stuff there and I hadn't even considered what Bannon's NSC shenanigans would look like to people in the military. Makes total sense why it would cause some serious concern after reading a bunch of the comments.
posted by Jalliah at 5:24 PM on January 30, 2017 [15 favorites]


Trying to keep up with the thread and failing, but regarding the "Where is Hilary?/Where is Obama?" stuff, I think, honestly, they are doing what they feel to be the right thing. Having the last president hanging around and criticizing the current president is a risky thing for the orderly transfer of power. Having the winner of the popular vote hanging around, criticizing, or even leading opposition to the President (the actual winner under the rules that we have, however stupid they are*) is risky, in that it would likely end with some (not all, but too many) calls to replace Trump with Clinton, which is, again, against pretty much the entire system we have.

Bannon is the one that wants to destroy the system. The people on the streets are the ones trying to keep the system from regressing, aware that progress has been made, however slow, and that the system (our government, our society, and how far we've come) is worth saving. I think Clinton respects the system well enough to avoid even the barest possibility of that sort of risk, and Obama just the same, is aware of the risk *to the system* that his prolonged presence on the scene would present.

And aside from that, I imagine they would rather people focus on new leaders who have a (political) future. Obama has been president. Clinton, sadly, never will be, but they can both (and probably are) working hard to help the next person with a chance.

*And the rules, the Electoral College, it is stupid. But I think both Clinton and Obama are of the "work inside the rules of the system to alter the system" mindset. There are ways and paths to removing the electoral college, and after having two of the last three presidents elected to office while losing the popular vote, I think the nation is pretty much ready to start exploring how to go about that.
posted by Ghidorah at 5:25 PM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


More Warren: "Criticism is not enough. President Trumps' EO must be overturned. We must overturn it."

Yes.
posted by prefpara at 5:25 PM on January 30, 2017 [49 favorites]


Sen. Warren: "Criticism is not enough."

THIS. So tired of Republicans getting credit for saying the right thing while enabling the wrong thing.
posted by tonycpsu at 5:25 PM on January 30, 2017 [52 favorites]


Don't think this has been posted yet:

Three Democrats join GOP to advance Tillerson nomination

In a 56-43 vote, Republicans picked up three Democratic votes to pierce the minority’s hoped-for united front against Mr. Trump’s unconventional nominee: Sens. Joe Manchin of West Virginia, Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota and Mark Warner of Virginia, all of whom face re-election in 2018. Democratic-leaning independent Sen. Angus King of Maine also voted to advance Mr. Tillerson’s nomination.

Primary. Those. Fuckers.
posted by jammer at 5:26 PM on January 30, 2017 [119 favorites]


More Warren: "Criticism is not enough. President Trumps' EO must be overturned. We must overturn it."

"And then we must vote down every one of his misbegotten unqualified demonic cabinet picks, especially that racist fucker Sessions who is in this shit up to his chin. Plus whatever goose-stepping barely-passed-law-school bastard he comes up with for SCOTUS." [fake, sadly]
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:28 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


Rep. Dave Brat: 'The women are in my grill no matter where I go'
Rep. Dave Brat, R-7th, is feeling some political pressure as Republicans in Congress move to repeal the Affordable Care Act.

"Since Obamacare and these issues have come up, the women are in my grill no matter where I go," Brat told an audience Saturday at a meeting of conservative groups at Hanover Tavern.

"They come up - 'When is your next town hall?' And believe me, it's not to give positive input."
Keep up the heat, get in their grills, everyone. It's, little by little, getting through.
posted by zachlipton at 5:32 PM on January 30, 2017 [150 favorites]


Primary. Those. Fuckers.

Joe Manchin of West Virginia
Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota
Mark Warner of Virginia
posted by INFJ at 5:32 PM on January 30, 2017 [42 favorites]


My 72-year-old mom has always been a democrat but she's pretty shy and extremely conflict-avoidant and has never been politically active. She was an ardent Hillary supporter but I couldn't convince her to give phone banking a try because she was afraid someone might hang up on her. But! Now she's calling her senators and representative and is planning to join the March for Science. She even asked me to knit her a pussyhat! Guys, if my mom is on it, you know something big must be happening.
posted by HotToddy at 5:33 PM on January 30, 2017 [62 favorites]


Warner's from my home state. I'll be giving him hell over this.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:34 PM on January 30, 2017 [24 favorites]


Joe Manchin of West Virginia
Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota
Mark Warner of Virginia


Arya Stark has the right idea.
posted by lydhre at 5:36 PM on January 30, 2017 [42 favorites]


Mark Warner of Virginia

Shocked and disappointed. Ugh.
posted by chainsofreedom at 5:37 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


Mark Warner of Virginia

it's nothing personal, understand, it's just oligarch solidarity.

but seriously, you find a primary candidate, i'm there.
posted by indubitable at 5:38 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


Here ya go - the plan per Slate
posted by rough ashlar at 5:40 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Rep. Dave Brat: 'The women are in my grill no matter where I go'

Note that this trumplicker seems to think that the constituents contacting him are paid leftist activists from elsewhere. I have pushed back on Facebook immediately where I have seen conservatives raise this idea as a protester, but I think we all need to push back on it. I've been drawling that we don't have any Koch brothers to rely on, pointing out places where I pay out of pocket to do my activism work, and generally insisting they talk to me about who I am and where I'm from.

That, or if someone is paying for us to do this shit, can someone hook me up with the Sekret Casting Call For Librul Wimminz? Because damn, my mortgage fund could seriously use some padding right now...
posted by sciatrix at 5:40 PM on January 30, 2017 [24 favorites]


I feel like beyond just enacting awful shit they want to happen, Bannon et al are reveling in a postmodern presidency. Releasing the EO for the Muslim ban on Holocaust remembrance day. So many people in Trump's family and administration being registered in multiple states while they tout bullshit about voter fraud. So many things that we've lumped under Trump's Mirror.

Sure, you can just say all of it just run of the mill hypocrisy and it probably is. But it feels almost purposeful. Like a fuck you to reality and facts that is being used as a darkly comic and chaotic tool.

And the joke is on us.
posted by defenestration at 5:41 PM on January 30, 2017 [15 favorites]



All of Warren's speech will become part of the Senate record yes?
posted by Jalliah at 5:42 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Politico has a heck of a story here: Hill staffers secretly worked on Trump's immigration order
Senior staffers on the House Judiciary Committee helped Donald Trump's top aides draft the executive order curbing immigration from seven Muslim-majority nations, but the Republican committee chairman and party leadership were not informed, according to multiple sources involved in the process.
...
The work of the committee aides began during the transition period after the election and before Donald Trump was sworn in. The staffers signed nondisclosure agreements, according to two sources familiar with the matter. Trump's transition operation forced its staff to sign these agreements, but it would be unusual to extend that requirement to congressional employees. Rexrode declined to comment on the nondisclosure pacts.
This is, well, concerning.
posted by zachlipton at 5:42 PM on January 30, 2017 [81 favorites]


The staffers signed nondisclosure agreements, according to two sources familiar with the matter.

Is this a thing our government is even allowed to do? :|
posted by INFJ at 5:44 PM on January 30, 2017 [17 favorites]


Note that this trumplicker seems to think that the constituents contacting him are paid leftist activists from elsewhere. I have pushed back on Facebook immediately where I have seen conservatives raise this idea as a protester, but I think we all need to push back on it.

Didn't you know? George Soros pays all protesters, funds CNN and MSNBC in full, is the world's largest dealer of private email servers, and had his henchmen distract Batman long enough to keep him from reaching BENGHAZI.
posted by delfin at 5:44 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


Uh oh, trouble in paradise, but you'd better get used to it, guys:
Mattis, who stood next to Trump during Friday's signing ceremony, is said to be particularly incensed. A senior U.S. official said Mattis, along with Joint Chiefs Chairman Joseph Dunford, was aware of the general concept of Trump's order but not the details. Tillerson has told the president's political advisers that he was baffled over not being consulted on the substance of the order.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:44 PM on January 30, 2017 [41 favorites]


Trump's transition operation forced its staff to sign these agreements,.....This is, well, concerning.

FOIAing those records should ya on "the list" - right?
posted by rough ashlar at 5:45 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Daily Beast White House Lowballs Impact of Trump Ban
According to the email, 348 people were blocked from boarding flights into the U.S. before their flights departed.

An additional 200 to 250 people were denied entry to the U.S. once their flights landed. That’s part of a larger pool of 735 people at ports of entry who had encounters with CBP and could have been barred from entering the U.S. by the executive order.

Of that group, 394 were lawful permanent residents of the U.S., all but two of whom were eventually let in; of the remaining two lawful permanent residents, one person gave up on coming in and the other was entered into proceedings for a criminal record (likely because of an outstanding warrant).
There is so much to uncover about this story still, for example the reason the CBP felt comfortable enough to disobey court orders and what consequences will be meted out. Then there is the fact that John Kelly, the Head of the Department of Homeland Security who has already been sworn in and should have been in charge of executing and explaining this EO was kept out of the loop and had no idea what was going on. Has Trump shown us how he plans to run his Presidency? Completely ignoring his cabinet appointees as though they were only mere decoration?

Then, no doubt, there will be many personal stories of heartbreak and the disastrous consequences as a direct result of this EO. Plus all the stories to be told about what happens to refugees turned away, the loss to the tech industry and their financial bloodbath, and the fear that has spread to all Green Card holders as to what their futures in America might look like. And so many other topics and subtopics. Entire Books could be written.

Unfortunately by tomorrow it will be on to the next crisis which may or may not include changes to LGBTQ rights as well as the announcement of the Supreme Court nominee.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:46 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


Politico has a heck of a story here: Hill staffers secretly worked on Trump's immigration order

Wowee kazowee. Rubio et al. are already livid at being left out of the loop (since Congresscritters generally get all shirty about that), but their own staffers working for Trump behind their backs? Oh my.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:47 PM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]



Murdoch Sons Decry Trump's Immigration Ban: "Immigration Is an Essential Part of America’s Strength"

Arnold Schwarzenegger: Trump's Immigration Ban Makes U.S. "Look Stupid

"I hope that this is a wake-up call for [the White House]," said the former California governor and new 'Celebrity Apprentice' host.

Celebrity Apprentice host Arnold Schwarzenegger was straightforward about his thoughts on President Donald Trump's recent immigration and travel ban, saying Monday he believes it is a mistake that "was vetted badly" and "makes us look stupid."

posted by Jalliah at 5:47 PM on January 30, 2017 [27 favorites]


Senator Blumenthal just now from the Senate floor: "Rip up this order Mr. President. Be on the right side of history. Be on the right side of the Constitution. Rip up this illegal order."

This is so foreign to me coming from a parliamentary democracy. Since the executive is vested in the legislature Bill Shorten can call Turnbull a dickhead from across the table. With Trump being able to sequester himself in his ivory house or gilded tower he doesn't actually have to face any of this criticism unless he wants to.

I mean it's nice that Senator Blumenthal is getting on the floor but from my vantage point it seems like the most futile gesture.
posted by Talez at 5:48 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


Manchin is a lost cause, and Heitkamp is hanging on for dear life in a really tough state for Democrats, but there is no excuse for Warner. If you're in Virginia, call his office daily. He really does need to be primaried from the left. Democrats can win in Virginia without behaving like garbage cowards.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:48 PM on January 30, 2017 [35 favorites]


Uh, that series of tweets from the Ghost Ryder account is not a serious linguistic analysis and the person who wrote it is obviously not a linguist. It's not even a particularly credible argument. What, your Russian disinformation agent knows English well enough to write those tweets and watch English television shows enough to pick up the word "vacay," but isn't familiar with words ending in -esque?

I've seen a lot of bullshit "analysis" going around about how Russians would or would not tweet.
posted by atoxyl at 5:48 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


> With Trump being able to sequester himself in his ivory house or gilded tower he doesn't actually have to face any of this criticism unless he wants to.

I've heard rumors somewhere that Trump does watch the occasional television news program.
posted by tonycpsu at 5:49 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


Hill staffers secretly worked on Trump's immigration order

"I would've told you what I've been up to, except you would have told me why it's a bad idea." -- Trump to House Republicans
posted by Coventry at 5:51 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


Samantha Bee: Syrian Refugees are already vetted as f***
posted by bunderful at 5:52 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


I just want to remind all the perplexed foreign observers that we in America don't totally understand what's going on, either.
posted by zutalors! at 5:52 PM on January 30, 2017 [62 favorites]


Uh oh, trouble in paradise, but you'd better get used to it, guys:
Mattis, who stood next to Trump during Friday's signing ceremony, is said to be particularly incensed. A senior U.S. official said Mattis, along with Joint Chiefs Chairman Joseph Dunford, was aware of the general concept of Trump's order but not the details. Tillerson has told the president's political advisers that he was baffled over not being consulted on the substance of the order.


So if Bannon continues to play these games with the highest officials how is that gonna work for him long term? As evil genius as Bannon may be one person can't run and control the whole show, especially if the other power players in that show don't trust or hate you.
posted by Jalliah at 5:52 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


Rubio tells reporters that the state department told his staff they had been asked not to give Congress information on immigration order.

Marco, honey, you'd better call the State department yourself from now on since apparently you can't believe anything your staff says. You're welcome!
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:53 PM on January 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


So if Bannon continues to play these games with the highest officials how is that gonna work for him long term?

During these meetings, is Mattis polite? Is he professional?
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 5:53 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Don’t Trust the Courts: The legal fight against Trump’s attack on Muslims will only succeed if it’s backed up by mass politics.
Trump’s team likely had several strategic aims in mind. They wanted to conflate Islam with criminality and subversion. They wanted to tacitly encourage DHS personnel to arrogate police power to themselves. And they wanted to demonstrate the flimsiness of the web of authority, deference, and trust that restrains the security services’ latent, ever-present capacity for violence.

The ongoing showdown between the courts and federal agents both reveals the partial autonomy of state institutions and augurs a full-blown crisis of institutional relations. It offers Trump, Bannon, and Miller an opportunity to attempt to consolidate their power. But it also presents an opportunity for left opponents of Trump.

One vehicle for resistance will be the courts. But a legal battle will only be won if judges’ room for maneuver is limited by public opinion, if the costs of defying court orders are higher than the security services are willing to bear, and if the administration’s lack of a mandate is made clear.

In other words, it will only be won with sustained, mass democratic action.
posted by homunculus at 5:54 PM on January 30, 2017 [25 favorites]


This is also an important story, even if it is from The Intercept: Turmoil at DHS and State Department - "There are people literally crying in the office here", featuring interviews and emails from within the agencies after the order came out. The bit that caught my eye is a little buried:
“Please look for additional guidance later this weekend on how to process naturalization applicants from one of the seven countries listed above who are currently scheduled for oath ceremony or whose N-400s have been approved and they are pending scheduling of oath ceremony,” Renaud wrote. “We expect to issue more detailed guidance and procedures as needed in the coming days.”
I hope somebody gets to the bottom of this fast, because that would indicate that they're messing with citizenship applications (or at least had plans to do so this weekend, though who knows what changed hour by hour), already approved citizenship applicants in fact, for people from the seven listed countries. And that's not remotely ok.
posted by zachlipton at 5:54 PM on January 30, 2017 [39 favorites]


Welp, I called 5 of Ted Cruz's offices -- one of my senators -- and finally got through to voice mail on try number 6 at their East Texas office. I suppose the fact that all the other voice mails are full is a good sign. This is the first time I've done this, and I was nervous so I read from a little blurb I typed up about my opposition to Sessions. What the heck do they do with these calls? Count them? Now, on to Cornyn.
posted by megancita at 5:56 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


The staffers signed nondisclosure agreements, according to two sources familiar with the matter.

That's the first reference to the Standard Family NDA being used in places where it shouldn't. I still want to know if the non-disparagement clauses stayed in for transition staffers seconded from congressional roles.
posted by holgate at 5:57 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


WSJ: Homeland Security Chief and White House Clash: That tension didn’t take long to materialize. Mr. Kelly hasn’t been able to name the deputy he wants at the agency, people familiar with the matter said, and he fought off attempts by the White House to put Kris Kobach, the Kansas secretary of state known as a hard-liner on immigration, into the position.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:57 PM on January 30, 2017 [17 favorites]


Actually, not seconded. Moonlighting from their congressional roles.
posted by holgate at 5:58 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Tillerson has told the president's political advisers that he was baffled over not being consulted on the substance of the order.

That these clowns are baffled by Trump doing whatever the fuck he wants (or Bannon wants) basically says everything you need to know about how much they're even paying attention. Give me a fucking break.
posted by tocts at 5:58 PM on January 30, 2017 [28 favorites]


(I'm impressed you got through, megancita! We've been filling those voicemails to the brim for months and I'm really pleased about how much angry Texans have been stepping up. If you want Texan resistance help, come sit by me an' emjaybee an' Unicorn on the cob and plot Cruz' demise in 2018.

I know people are currently calling Joaquin Castro and asking him to run against Cruz, and Castro is if nothing else qualified as shit and much beloved in San Antonio, where he's currently in the House. If we can all convince him we'll come out to support him in a couple of years, we might be able to oust that bastard Cruz after just one term in office!)
posted by sciatrix at 6:00 PM on January 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


I think an anti-LGB (wish I were more sure about the T, unfortunately) executive order would be really, really significant overreach

Is there any possibility this is all an elaborate false flag? I know this is probably just grasping on straws, but I'm having trouble understanding how anyone can be so cartoonishly, stupidly evil, and keep falling back on "what if this is all a ploy to pretend to be evil to unite everyone against him?" I know it's delirious and this is probably sickbed fantasy but surely even they can't think this is working?
posted by corb at 6:00 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


The staffers signed nondisclosure agreements, according to two sources familiar with the matter.

Is this a thing our government is even allowed to do? :|


We talked about this back even before Trump won because he loves him some NDAs-- everybody he employs has to sign one and they are comprehensive. Even his volunteers during his campaign had to sign NDAs that not only prevented them from ever discussing any details, it prevented them from ever criticizing DJT or anyone in his family or any family business for the rest of their lives. Which is insane but who wants the lawyer bills when he comes to sue you?

On the other hand he cannot legally compel government employs who work for him to sign NDAs. He might try and he might keep anyone who doesn't sign one out of the loop but I am confident he cannot fire a government employee who is hit with a FOIA from being questioned and answering in full nor could DJT then turn around and sue the State Employee for answering questions.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:00 PM on January 30, 2017 [15 favorites]


Quick report from downtown Columbus, OH -

A couple hours ago, maybe 7pm, I had a pretty good view of the demonstration at the state house from way up in the Huntington building. The entire front steps were mobbed plus maybe 1-2x that many people again on the lawn (I'm terrible at estimating crowd sizes). I had to check into my hotel, but by maybe an hour later demonstrators had migrated to the street at the intersection of High and State - the police were queuing up on High St. approaching that intersection from the south. Crowd was "confrontational" in the sense of yelling at the line of police, but as with the other demonstrations I've seen these last couple weeks, otherwise very well behaved with no violence or vandalism at all. A good vibe.

It also didn't appear there were any arrests or other police aggression as of about 8:45.

Go central Ohio!
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 6:00 PM on January 30, 2017 [21 favorites]


That's the first reference to the Standard Family NDA being used in places where it shouldn't.

Can you expand on this? I have no idea what a Family NDA is, or why it legally shouldn't be used here.
posted by Coventry at 6:01 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


That these clowns are baffled by Trump doing whatever the fuck he wants (or Bannon wants) basically says everything you need to know about how much they're even paying attention. Give me a fucking break.

I kind of get Tillerson's deal, though. I mean, from his point of view, he is Rex Fucking Tillerson, CEO of Exxon; nobody puts Rexxie in a corner! I'm sure he was assured he'd be a partner, and a valued counselor, and fully in charge of his own department. And now he's barely an afterthought.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:02 PM on January 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


So if Bannon continues to play these games with the highest officials how is that gonna work for him long term?

Wormtongue managed to keep his job for a while.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:03 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Re: discussion above concerning wanting a leader for this movement (Hillary was mentioned). I had some thoughts yesterday about how heartening it has been to see so many people pitching in anyway they can. Lawyers showing up at airports, pizza being delivered to JFK by a guy from a pizza shop who saw the protests on the news and just wanted to help, the mefite who provided their roommate with cellphone power packs which helped the lawyers, each one of the protestors and everyone who put out the call for them.

And I remembered how in the days after the election I was so scared and yearned for a leader to tell me how to resist, to explain what had happened and to tell me how to think, to tell me what to do. And I realized that if one had emerged I probably would have followed them anywhere. And how dangerous that is. And how I'm grateful for the realization that I am capable of following someone, in fear, without critical thought. And grateful that instead, our leaders are diffuse and many and subject to dissent. Because otherwise I might be little different from a Trump acolyte.

It is better that our leaders are so many and that we criticize each other (to a point, the circular firing squad is a real threat), that we are allowed many voices but they are moderated (mefi is a good example of this!)

I participated in the anti war movement from 2001-2008 and became disillusioned with activism for several reasons (no effect on federal policy, people showing up to the protests for their pet causes rather than uniting in a single voice against the Iraq War, the privileging of straight White cismale voices above others, the leftier than thou culture) and was cynical about the possibility of progressive protest against Trump and his actions, but have been more than pleasantly surprised, I have been energized for the first time in years by the coming together of various groups and all the first time protestors and the calls for elevating the voices of the less heard.
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 6:03 PM on January 30, 2017 [50 favorites]


Wormtongue managed to keep his job for a while.

Hopefully this also ends with Bannon and Trump stuck in Trump Tower surrounded by angry trees.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:05 PM on January 30, 2017 [21 favorites]


Warren is still going. She's telling story after story of people impacted by the ban.
posted by diogenes at 6:06 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


Well, here we go:

Jim Acosta: New Trump executive order on cyber security expected tomorrow, I'm told.

I'm expecting some kind of Great Firewall like China has, but anyone have any insight?
posted by bluecore at 6:06 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]



Can you expand on this? I have no idea what a Family NDA is, or why it legally shouldn't be used here.

Standard Family NDA

The US government is not Trump. It has it's own policies around NDA and keeping secrets.
posted by Jalliah at 6:07 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


"Trump seems intent on turning it [America] into a medieval fortress." - Warren
posted by saysthis at 6:07 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


Wormtongue and Saruman also ended up reduced to petty dictators over the Shire before essentially killing each other (well, Wormtongue was killed by angry hobbits).
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:08 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Jim Acosta: New Trump executive order on cyber security expected tomorrow, I'm told.

An alleged draft already leaked [as in, the Washington Post has one. I'm not doing the thing where I post a picture where someone's drawn a bunch of computers behind a brick wall in crayon, though I want to do that too now]
posted by zachlipton at 6:09 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


More trouble in Paradise:

Vanity Fair Can Jared and Ivanka Outrun Donald Trump’s Scandals?
The timing of Trump’s executive order on Friday, just moments before sundown, meant that Kushner would not be in the West Wing to absorb another cataclysmic Saturday. Indeed, Kushner observed the Sabbath as thousands of people protested outside airports across the country, children waited for their detained parents, lawyers rushed to federal court rooms, taxi drivers went on strike, and one Democratic leader broke down in tears on live television.[...]

according to a source familiar with the situation, Kushner’s influence on his boss may be flagging. Last week, Kushner spent 24 hours trying to broker a meeting between Trump and Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto. The source said that Kushner was even considering flying to Mexico in order to convince Peña Nieto, who had butted heads with Trump over various issues, to travel to the White House. Ultimately, Peña Nieto agreed—a feat Kushner presented to his father-in-law on Wednesday night. It was his first real victory in the West Wing in his role as senior adviser, and it would be a major step toward turning one of Trump’s main campaign promises into a reality.

Less than 12 hours later, though, it all fell apart. After Peña Nieto reiterated that Mexico does not plan to pay for Trump’s proposed wall, Trump tweeted that if Mexico is “unwilling to pay for the badly needed wall, then it would be better to cancel the upcoming meeting.” Just like that, the meeting was cancelled.
The article goes on to talk about how Kushner is appearing physically drained and Ivanka is finding it much more difficult to sell herself as a woman apart from her father-- more enlightened, more in touch with women.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:10 PM on January 30, 2017 [48 favorites]






Wormtongue and Saruman also...

Gah I was mistaking Wormtail for Wormtongue.
posted by INFJ at 6:11 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Boy, it sounds like that Nazi Bannon is fucking everything up for everybody.
posted by valkane at 6:12 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Is he trying to see how many people he can piss off? Because the Silicon Valley people will not be thrilled by a move like that, and he'll make some more rich and powerful enemies.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:13 PM on January 30, 2017


FIGHT EVERYTHING ALL THE TIME

So, there's a lot of confusion, and a Twitter war going on between these two journalists, one of whom has a copy of the anti-LGBT EO draft, and one who was told by a Trump person that it doesn't exist. I think the general consensus is that it DOES exist, but might in fact be called the "First Amendment Protection Act" or something disgusting like that.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:14 PM on January 30, 2017


large people with IT skills: YOU'VE JUST BEEN PUT ON NOTICE
posted by indubitable at 6:15 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]



An alleged draft already leaked [as in, the Washington Post has one. I'm not doing the thing where I post a picture where someone's drawn a bunch of computers behind a brick wall in crayon, though I want to do that too now]


I skimmed and nothing horrible stood out. It's basically saying do a report and review on everything related to national cyber security. I'm not an expect though but no mention of doing anything except a review, report and recommendation sort of thing.
posted by Jalliah at 6:15 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


Following up on some earlier thoughts, it would be nice to see every guest on CNN keep repeating that Bannon is the real president. That might be the best way to get to Trump.
posted by uosuaq at 6:16 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


I think the oligarchs are realizing that Trump-Bannon-Miller-Sessions aren't really focused on pushing through the normal boring package of tax cuts, hampering regulators, pushing for increased energy production, etc.

Mattis and Kelly are are going to look at the NSC snub of the Joint Chiefs and realize that these guys aren't even going to put up a veneer of respect for the military. I suspect the same thing is going through the halls of the CIA, NSA, etc in regards to the DNI being excluded.

It doesn't matter if Thiel has Trump's back when billions of dollars worth of value in tech stocks just disappeared today. Trump is pushing EOs that are bad for business and some very very wealthy people are going to be calling their pet congressmen on speed dial.

And that's before they announce some sort of stupid anti-LGBT pro-discrimination EO tomorrow.

Yeah there are no doubt plenty of red state reps and Senators that are so terrified of the Trumpista base that they won't buck the President but there are already cracks forming and that's before there is even some sort of difficult legislative vote.

And while the Tea Party types are vocal and persistent it's pretty clear they don't have the numbers to engage in counter protests.
posted by vuron at 6:16 PM on January 30, 2017 [21 favorites]


I skimmed and nothing horrible stood out. It's basically saying do a report and review on everything related to national cyber security. I'm not an expect though but no mention of doing anything except a review, report and recommendation sort of thing.

It looks like any 'ugh wtf' will come when the review and recommendations come in.
posted by Jalliah at 6:17 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Yeah that cybersecurity draft definitely does not look like the work of the chucklefucks who wrote most of these EOs. I didn't read too deeply though, there could be some heinous shit in there I missed.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:17 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Tump has fired Sally Yates. (statement)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:19 PM on January 30, 2017 [56 favorites]


Yeah that cybersecurity draft definitely does not look like the work of the chucklefucks who wrote most of these EOs. I didn't read too deeply though, there could be some heinous shit in there I missed.

I know it's weird, I was expecting worse but this one looks actually reasonable and boring.
posted by Jalliah at 6:19 PM on January 30, 2017


(The e-community in general, from my experience, also hates censorship - I'm thinking here of the anti-SOPA/PIPA movement which united more-or-less all corners of the Internet against a common threat, however briefly. So I want to think censoring the Web will be a harder fight with more opposition here than in, say, China, even without Trump antagonizing e-companies like Google and Amazon.)
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:19 PM on January 30, 2017


The EO is his new favorite drug.

"Get me some more o' those, Stinkin' Steve. I'm about out!"
posted by notyou at 6:20 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


I think the cyber security review is for Trump/Bannon to learn what capabilities there are that they can then exploit. As in, what kind of monitoring can they do on their enemies, etc.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 6:20 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


I had some thoughts yesterday about how heartening it has been to see so many people pitching in anyway they can. Lawyers showing up at airports, pizza being delivered to JFK by a guy from a pizza shop who saw the protests on the news and just wanted to help, the mefite who provided their roommate with cellphone power packs which helped the lawyers, each one of the protestors and everyone who put out the call for them.

These people? Are the ones making America great again. These are the "helpers" Mr. Rogers talks about. These little glimmers of light are the only things that are giving me hope these days, which in turn gives me a new resolve to fight. I'm trying to share instances of this on my social media and in all my resist groups whenever I see them, because I hope that other people who are starting to feel fatigued will take heart from them as well. I'm making it a point to say that these are the real people making America great, and that we've ALWAYS been there. Because fuck Trump with his MAGA bullshit. We've always been great and he doesn't get to reframe it as anything else, if I have any say in the matter.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:21 PM on January 30, 2017 [32 favorites]


Tump has fired Sally Yates.
Oh wow. I did not see that coming!
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:21 PM on January 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


Thanks for the fax tip all, I faxed a brief angry letter to Sen. Feinstein's office and it got through right away. Took real effort not to have that fax just be:

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME????? NO TO ALL OF TRUMP'S BULLSHIT! ALL OF IT!!!!! Best, your constituent. P.S.: thx for saying the Muslim ban was bullshit and introducing a bill to that effect.
posted by yasaman at 6:21 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


this just twigged me to remember 'bikers for trump'. there were 2 groups of 5 thousand who were awaiting permits days before the inaug. any idea what happened with them?

Like 5 of them showed up, they had a stage on/near the mall, no one was intimidated by them, and occasionally Trump supporters would beg for them to form their "wall of meat" near where the protests were happening, which did not appear to happen.
posted by Copronymus at 6:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


Yeah that cybersecurity draft definitely does not look like the work of the chucklefucks who wrote most of these EOs. I didn't read too deeply though, there could be some heinous shit in there I missed.

I didn't see anything that screams out as awful either, but it seems awfully derivative of the last dozen "let's have a committee do a report on cybersecurity and then not do anything" efforts. It seems like it could be a way to act like he's taking the problem seriously without having to change a thing.
posted by zachlipton at 6:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


oh, Mattis is incensed, is he? Resign like a man with dignity, then. everyone keeps secrets from the Cabinet, so maybe nobody has told him yet that he can do that.

anyway once he does that, then he can pretend to be upset and I'll pretend to believe it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


Jesus fuck. They're efficient about some things, I guess.

Sally Yates, we salute you. It's a fucking honor to be fired for resisting this nazi administration.
posted by lydhre at 6:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [186 favorites]


-esque. They'd spell it as -esk because QU is a mysterious bastard of a diphthong.

it's literally just because "-esque" makes the tweet too many characters


I would expect -esq from a native English writer. Bannon-esq makes sense to me as an abbreviation; Bannon-esk made me look a couple of times to figure out what it meant - because we don't use "esk" for anything.

Same with "vakay" in the other one. I'm not sure how I'd abbreviate "vacation," but "vakay" certainly isn't it. (Vactn, probably. A non-native speaker wouldn't know that we drop the vowels more often than the extra syllables.)

I'm counting this as good plausibility that roguepotusstaff isn't a native US speaker/reader, and that Russian doesn't seem unlikely.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 6:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


'Standard Family NDA' is just a reference to how the Family Business copy-pasted its corporate nondisclosure & non-disparagement agreement for use in the campaign (the non-disparagement included all the children, but excluded Pence) and apparently did the same for the transition. Having people signed up to NDAs was the source of much of his corporate power.
posted by holgate at 6:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


All the more reason to block Sessions indefinitely.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:23 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


Trump definitely wrote this statement. "weak on borders and very weak on illegal immigration" and all sorts of bitching and moaning.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:23 PM on January 30, 2017 [20 favorites]


The letter firing Sally Yates is so graceless that I believe Trump went to the trouble of composing at least some of it himself.
posted by foxfirefey at 6:23 PM on January 30, 2017 [99 favorites]



Can you expand on this? I have no idea what a Family NDA is, or why it legally shouldn't be used here.
Standard Family NDA
It barred them from sharing any insider details in the future and made it clear that they could be sued for disparaging any member of the Trump family
How insecure do you have to be to contractually oblige people not to be mean to you. If you are that insecure, how dumb do you have to be to telegraph your crushing vulnerability to horrible-nasty-mean-people-calling-you-names to a world that increasingly reviles and despises you.

Then, a weekly hour of #TrumpSucks posting could be cathartic.
posted by Buntix at 6:23 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Christ, that press release. Can he not do anything with dignity? Yes, just ooze your whiny resentment all over the place instead of drafting an anodyne report like, y'know, most people do when they have to release a subordinate.
posted by jackbishop at 6:23 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


Tump has fired Sally Yates. (statement)

I can't believe they fit that much whining into a written statement - it reads like they transcribed Trump verbatim. Doesn't anyone edit these things?
posted by indubitable at 6:24 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


Tump has fired Sally Yates. (statement)

Who writes these? They're terrible. Oh noes, the Acting AG is 'weak on borders'. That's supposed to be an insult? Borders aren't (weren't) her job.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:24 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


Tump has fired Sally Yates. (statement)

And from a quick glance it looks like he replaced her with an attorney from the same court district as Dulles, same district one of the stays came from.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:25 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


That statement firing Yates is such a whiny piece of propaganda.
posted by alligatorpear at 6:25 PM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


That Sally Yates statement is just bananas. I've never seen a government document like it. I mean, it's really scary because it's obvious that the federal government is basically Trump, Bannon, Conway and a fax machine at this point, but still. Holy fuck. "Has betrayed the department of justice" - that's, ugh, I thought I had one last even deep down at the bottom of the package but when I tried to get it out it just broke up into crumbs.
posted by Frowner at 6:25 PM on January 30, 2017 [115 favorites]


From the purported "cybersecurity" EO, something which actually sounds sensible:
(d) Workforce Development Review. In order to ensure that the United States has a long-term cyber capability advantage, the Secretary of Defense and Secretary of Homeland Security shall also gather and review information from the Department of Education regarding computer science, mathematics, and cyber security education from primary through higher education to understand the full scope of U.S. efforts to educate and train the workforce of the future. The Secretary of Defense shall make recommendations as he sees fit in order to best position the U.S. educational system to maintain its competitive advantage into the future.
posted by Coventry at 6:25 PM on January 30, 2017


Also if an actual competent lawyer in the DoJ 'approved' that Executive Order, I will eat my hat. A 1st year law student could tell you it's unconstitutional.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:26 PM on January 30, 2017 [19 favorites]


You can tell that he dictated much of the firing statement himself because it reads like a 9-year-old reviewing a toy.
posted by holgate at 6:26 PM on January 30, 2017 [35 favorites]


So can this acting attorney general sign FISA warrants?
posted by birdheist at 6:26 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


Trump definitely wrote this statement. "weak on borders and very weak on illegal immigration" and all sorts of bitching and moaning.

He didn't write the whole thing but it's easy to see which parts he dictated.
posted by Jalliah at 6:26 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


Don’t Trust the Courts: The legal fight against Trump’s attack on Muslims will only succeed if it’s backed up by mass politics.

You will not win your case based on the law and the facts - you will win based on the politics. - Randall Kelton.

A functional court watching program along with open records requests is an option to let 'em know the politics will be changing.
posted by rough ashlar at 6:26 PM on January 30, 2017


Following politics right now is like watching All the President's Men, but every time they say Nixon, it goes faster.
posted by tau_ceti at 6:27 PM on January 30, 2017 [98 favorites]


Boente was a Holder and then an Obama appointee. which doesn't necessarily mean anything good and they must must must have asked him if he'll do what he's told before picking him. because they aren't careless people?
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:27 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


That Yates announcement, eesh.

On Yates:

"betrayed the Justice Dept"

"is an Obama appointee who is weak on borders and very weak on illegal immigration."

A note about her replacement, which is buttressed with this clause about why Boente is needed:

"he [Sessions] is being wrongly held up by Democrats for purely political reasons."

Losing.
posted by notyou at 6:27 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


The cybersecurity draft reads like a Joint DNI-DoD review. Honestly it wouldn't shock me if it was more or less something from the Obama administration that they pulled out of a drawer as a way of potentially shutting down Criticisms from McCain and company.

Of course I had to laugh when I saw the section about the Department of Education being tasked to help develop critical capabilities in STEM fields especially computer science and such. I mean did they bother to read a bio on DeVos and her antipathy towards education in general?

I guess they can always use immigrants to make up the talent gap, ohh wait the chucklefucks in the White House fucked that shit up.
posted by vuron at 6:27 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


So can this acting attorney general sign FISA warrants?
This question only matters to someone who is concerned with the legality of their actions.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:28 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


I'm thinking some sort of fungus, but one that has the capacity to feel hate.

Jeff VanderMeer, we need you now more than ever.
posted by augustimagination at 6:28 PM on January 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


Firing an (acting) AG for their legal opinion, huh? Sounds like the SaturdayMonday Night Massacre is just getting started.
posted by otenba at 6:28 PM on January 30, 2017 [12 favorites]


"Also, FORMER Attorney General Yates is POOPY. And a GIRL. A POOPY GIRL."
posted by delfin at 6:28 PM on January 30, 2017 [57 favorites]


Hi it's time for one of my periodic invokings of The IRC.

But seriously, y'all, working there is giving me some hope right now - i mean, not because I"m doing much there (i'm literally like a dataprocessing monkey), but we get to hear about how other people care about the refugees and new Americans all the time.

Like: Kai Penn got an angry Tweet on Saturday saying that he "didn't belong in this country", and as a sort of neener back at the guy, he started a GoFundMe type of action asing people to donate in that guy's name. He said that if he got $50K he'd donate it all to the IRC.

He met that goal in 11 minutes. Then upped it to $100K and met that Saturday night. And he just kept going.

The campaign now is at a goal of $750K and is 95% of the way there.

He hosted a special Q-and-A with the IRC social media team on Twitter tonight too, and people are asking questions about "how else can I help, do you take volunteers".

The president's a cartoon villain, but there are clearly enough good people that we're not alone.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:29 PM on January 30, 2017 [73 favorites]


If you gave that cyber EO to half of the infosec people I've worked with, they'd interpret it as "lets point a vulnerability scanner at the entire US IP space and look at all the stuff that shows up as critical."
posted by MysticMCJ at 6:29 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]



I wish there was a way for Sessions to not be confirmed because that would be the bestist right now.
posted by Jalliah at 6:29 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


She didn't betray the DOJ, she betrayed Trump. She's not weak on borders, she's strong on the law. She's not a Nazi.
posted by valkane at 6:30 PM on January 30, 2017 [106 favorites]


Shut it all down...
posted by Windopaene at 6:30 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Also - can Sally Yates bring some kind of wrongful termination suit against the White House for this, and can that be the catalyst that brings on an impeachment?

PLEASE SAY YES
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:30 PM on January 30, 2017 [42 favorites]


Tump has fired Sally Yates.

So on that: the President can simply fire and appoint the Acting AG as he pleases?

So, wait, what: if Trump's shitty Cabinet nominees get delayed by Congress he can simply install them, or equally shitty equivalents, as acting Secretaries by Presidential fiat?
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 6:30 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


I wish there was a way for Sessions to not be confirmed because that would be the bestist right now.


s/not be confirmed/deported
posted by delfin at 6:31 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm counting this as good plausibility that roguepotusstaff isn't a native US speaker/reader, and that Russian doesn't seem unlikely.

i mean? i know the terrible red menace is everyone's favourite breathless assumption these days but i feel like you might not be familiar with the breathtaking array of idiocy amongst native US english speakers if you think that they're all magically immune to some of the stupidest spelling errors i've ever seen

exhibit a is like 80% of all fanfic
posted by poffin boffin at 6:31 PM on January 30, 2017 [27 favorites]


exhibit b is the sum total of youtube comments
posted by poffin boffin at 6:31 PM on January 30, 2017 [16 favorites]




The president's a cartoon villain, but there are clearly enough good people that we're not alone.

Wow. I saw it when it was just over a 100k and thought 'wow' then. 750k is incredible. This is great neener, neener.
posted by Jalliah at 6:32 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


I think Dana Boente budded from Mitch McConnell's spawnmother
posted by theodolite at 6:33 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


corb re the potential anti lgbt eo -- like this time last year the gop as a party made overt plans to restrict transgender rights so this is just a bigger, uglier, dumber, worse version of bad shit the GOP has wanted already

i mean yes it's horrible and i'm not happy about it but this shit isn't coming out of nowhere

anyway back to congratulating my reps, i guess merkley is leading a filibuster against anybody besides garland for scotus
posted by beefetish at 6:33 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Also, that press release definitely was penned by Trump - It looks like exactly what he'd do if you removed the character limit from twitter. Which, come to think of it, is probably exactly how he thinks of press releases.
posted by MysticMCJ at 6:33 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Press needs to ask whether Trump has rescinded this EO providing for DOJ order of succession:

Not really. Trump has acted consistently with it:

(c) Notwithstanding the provisions of this order, the President retains discretion, to the extent permitted by law, to depart from this order in designating an acting Attorney General.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:34 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm frankly pretty shocked that he didn't call Sally Yates a "four" or a bimbo in that press release.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:34 PM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


Well, that was fast, and with all the grace and social tact we've come to expect from Trump. Of course he fired her. And of course he was an unprofessional asshole.

As for me, I want to thank Sally Yates for standing her ground and to tell her she did good, fuck Trump and fuck Bannon.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:34 PM on January 30, 2017 [63 favorites]


I also had a reminder of what sundowning rage feels like on the receiving end.
posted by holgate at 6:35 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm frankly pretty shocked that he didn't call Sally Yates a "four" or a bimbo in that press release.

Give it time. He won't be done with this, not by a long shot. He'll keep going after her for a while yet.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:36 PM on January 30, 2017 [18 favorites]


Yeah, appointees like Yates (rather than career civil service employees) can absolutely be fired at will by the President. When the system works, it is a feature, not a bug: it's how to keep agencies from acting without any political accountability.
posted by alligatorpear at 6:36 PM on January 30, 2017


that press release reads like the sneering sniveling face-saving whine of a drunk frat guy that was hitting on you for an hour before calling you fat and ugly when you won't fuck him

so definitely hand-written by greasy orange rapist nazi fuckface himself
posted by poffin boffin at 6:37 PM on January 30, 2017 [49 favorites]








You remember how that whole "call him President Bannon so Trump will get mad and fire him" was a Twitter joke the other day? It's gone from Twitter joke to NYT editorial: President Bannon?
posted by zachlipton at 6:38 PM on January 30, 2017 [44 favorites]


(Christopher Pike voice) "Sally Yates was US Attorney General for eleven days. She saved N refugees. I dare you to do better. Apply to law school."
posted by officer_fred at 6:38 PM on January 30, 2017 [40 favorites]


CNN Trump's immigration reform: High-skilled visas may be next
The H-1B visa is the popular pathway that helps high-skilled foreigners work at companies in the U.S.

It's a program that's particularly near and dear to the tech community, with many talented engineers vying for one of the program's 85,000 visas each year.

During a White House briefing Monday, Press Secretary Sean Spicer said Trump will continue to talk about reforming the H-1B visa program, among others, as part of a larger push for immigration reform.

Spicer said Trump will do so through executive order, as well as by working with Congress.
Just a reminder that DJT uses the H1B Visa to staff Mar A Lago (because apparently Americans don't fondle the lettuce right or something) and Melania herself was here on a H1B Visa for years.

I think all this immigration reform is really going to backfire on him. Not only the tech industry but business in general is going to be unhappy. Plus I don't think most Americans are upset with legal immigration levels.


ohh wait the chucklefucks in the White House fucked that shit up


This, this needs to be a fucking tatoo or something. Maybe spelled out in Christmas lights on top of my house.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:38 PM on January 30, 2017 [16 favorites]


Oh thank god. I finally figured out who Spicer reminds me of! It was driving me crazy!
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:39 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


Fuck me. I step away for 15 minutes and Trump fires the acting AG for betrayal with a bonkers press release.
posted by diogenes at 6:39 PM on January 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


Wow. I saw [Kal Penn's fundraiser] when it was just over a 100k and thought 'wow' then. 750k is incredible.

You know what is getting me, actually, is the other fundraising teams alongside it. They're all small ones so at first glance they look less impressive - but that moves me more, you know? The $50 being pledged by people having a chili cookoff in their house, the couple hundred from the woman who's running a 5K, stuff like that. They're not famous, they don't have means, but they know what is important and they want to do something so they're all "uh...I can make good chili, maybe we can do something with that?" And instead of just sinking back into apathy they're saying "okay, sure, I'll do that, people need me too much" and on they go.

Somewhere upthread someone said something about how they wanted Hillary back because "we need SOMEONE to lead us now". But I don't think we need Hillary becuase - we got us.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:39 PM on January 30, 2017 [44 favorites]


can Sally Yates bring some kind of wrongful termination suit against the White House for this

No. The Attorney General serves at the pleasure of the President and can be dismissed at any time for any reason.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:39 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Boente has told WaPo that he'll enforce the order.

so much for the trump press release quoting Boente's promise to defend the laws of our nation, then. guess he lied!
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:39 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


Out of morbid curiosity I really wonder how that call from Trump to Yates went, did he give her the trademark "You're fired!"? We need this interview in WaPo by tomorrow.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:41 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


"How could I betray you when I was never on your side to begin with?"

- Sally Yates (fake, but I wish)
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:41 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


So what I wonder if what's happening is that T/B are just writing EOs from scratch, no legal input, then just throwing them over the fence, saying "here, make this happen." Yates would have had to invent a defense from scratch, because the WH certainly doesn't seem to be helping anybody understand, and was Boente the EDVA atty who had no defense to offer in court on Saturday night? There's nothing behind the EO, just a pipe-dream, and Yates was in the role of realizing the dream. Insidious.

All of this would constitute a test to see if they can invent new laws with other people putting their names and expertise to its implementation.
posted by rhizome at 6:42 PM on January 30, 2017


That's nice that you'll defend it, Boente. Do you not think Yates has just inspired a lot of line attorneys to try to follow her lead in refusing to defend unconstitutional orders? (Even though they won't be rewarded with sweet jobs when they get fired, as I'm sure Yates will (as she deserves))
posted by alligatorpear at 6:42 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


Boente has told WaPo that he'll enforce the order.

Gee I wonder which acting attorney general will come off well in the history books
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:42 PM on January 30, 2017 [36 favorites]


"i will enforce the order," says the brave little reichsminister
posted by poffin boffin at 6:43 PM on January 30, 2017 [63 favorites]


The cyber security EO draft is alarming at Point 8: Private Infrastructure Incentives Review. It's loosely wordrd enough to allow companies to get rewards for sharing of anything they deem as security data.
posted by AlexiaSky at 6:43 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Vanity Fair: Can Jared and Ivanka outrun Trump's scandals? Less than a fortnight into his new post, Kushner appears unable to control his father-in-law—and is “furious” that his efforts are being undermined.
posted by porn in the woods at 6:44 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


The H-1B visa is the popular pathway that helps high-skilled foreigners work at companies in the U.S..

Gee, I wonder where that idea came from?
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:45 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Meanwhile, on Wikipedia
posted by rhizome at 6:45 PM on January 30, 2017 [47 favorites]


I hope the ink is already drying on a job offer for Yates at the ACLU.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:45 PM on January 30, 2017 [17 favorites]


I'm thinking some sort of fungus, but one that has the capacity to feel hate.

Will Dog Turd Fungus do?
posted by mudpuppie at 6:46 PM on January 30, 2017


maybe boente said he would defend the ban, but didn't tell trump he intends to do the lousiest job ever?
posted by localhuman at 6:46 PM on January 30, 2017


Kushner appears unable to control his father-in-law—and is “furious” that his efforts are being undermined.

Poor Jared. He thought he was special. Nice to see him feeling fucked over too.
posted by futz at 6:46 PM on January 30, 2017 [38 favorites]


What other options are there to stop the Attorney General from enforcing it?
posted by saysthis at 6:46 PM on January 30, 2017


From the Cyber security EO draft (PDF) - if the internet is a "national resource," does that mean it should be a public utility and everyone should have access to it? (ok, you can stop laughing now.)

From "Definitions" section -
(a) The term "critical infrastructure" means systems and assets, whether physical or virtual, so vital to the United States that the incapacity or destruction of such systems would have a debilitating impact on security, national economic security, national public health or safety, or any combination of those matters.
Umm... did he just declare Google, Twitter, and Facebook to be US gov't assets?
(ii) Within 60 days of the date of this order, initial recommendations for the protection of U.S. national security systems shall be submitted to the President through the Secretary of Defense.
Pfft, I can do that now. Get all gov't systems on Linux and hire a small phalanx of competent IT personnel. Secondary option, if that's too much hassle: Get everything to Win10, with the high security settings. Install some basic netnanny software - you don't need anything creative; just keep people off everything not required for their jobs. No google, no youtube, no twitter, no facebook - in fact, for the most part, no internet: if you don't work in the media, you don't need internet. Set up restricted internet access for those who need to order supplies online; make sure there's an automated paper (email) trail going to their dep't heads and the IT dep't.

All external email runs through (1) a filter looking for address spoofing; (2) a cache in the IT dep't, to track anything that did get through, and (3) attachment removal - all attachments must be sent via a secure logon site, not email attachments.

Don't let anyone break standard security procedures, for any reason. This means you, Mr. Keeping-my-Gmail-based-Twitter presidon't.

It's not hard to develop excellent security systems; the hard part is getting people to slog through the extra procedures and cope with the slowdowns to productivity. (Oh, and to keep them from resigning as soon as they find a job that doesn't treat its people like imbeciles or criminals. But if they're working directly for this administration, I assume they're already okay with that part.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 6:47 PM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


Are USAGs conventionally admitted to the Supreme Court?
posted by rhizome at 6:47 PM on January 30, 2017


Trump lost O'Reilly. (O'Reilly: "Protecting Americans is...priority #1, but the nobility of our nation demands we help suffering, helpless people if we can.")
posted by zachlipton at 6:47 PM on January 30, 2017 [44 favorites]


maybe boente said he would defend the ban, but didn't tell trump he intends to do the lousiest job ever?

You realize you just said the same thing twice there, right?
posted by Etrigan at 6:47 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Poor Jared. He thought he was special. Nice to see him feeling fucked over too.

I'm shocked the Nazis are pushing out the Jew.
posted by chris24 at 6:48 PM on January 30, 2017 [63 favorites]




Boente has told WaPo that he'll enforce the order.

This is how the rule of law dies.
posted by prefpara at 6:48 PM on January 30, 2017 [30 favorites]


It's a program that's particularly near and dear to the tech community, with many talented engineers vying for one of the program's 85,000 visas each year.

I'm conflicted about this. The H1B program is absolutely one of the things that has made the US tech sector the strongest in the world; at the same time, there is rampant abuse by companies importing low-skilled cheap labor. I think one of the likely outcomes here is that the program will be scaled back in a way which will not really affect the tech giants (who have great legal teams and can afford to meet any salary requirements the government demands for H1B holders), but could absolutely destroy smaller companies outside the Bay Area.
posted by miyabo at 6:48 PM on January 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


Considering how many people use PayPal and Uber alone and how buddy-buddy their owners are with Trump, I'll definitely admit to being worried about their possible misuse of anti-Trump users' personal data.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:48 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


oh, Mattis is incensed, is he? Resign like a man with dignity, then.

What, so Trump can put in someone who can nuke the planet? No thank you. He has a clear moral and ethical duty not to betray his uniform and his oaths. We are all fucking watching.
posted by corb at 6:48 PM on January 30, 2017 [22 favorites]


Poor Jared. He thought he was special. Nice to see him feeling fucked over too.
Jared for sure knows where some bodies are buried. If he turns on Trump, things will get interesting, and maybe not in a good way.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:49 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


I'm shocked the Nazis are pushing out the Jew.

Does this mean Stephen Miller has to fire himself?
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:49 PM on January 30, 2017



You remember how that whole "call him President Bannon so Trump will get mad and fire him" was a Twitter joke the other day? It's gone from Twitter joke to NYT editorial: President Bannon?


Yes! NYT so he might even see it. (I just caught myself trying to fist bump my dog)
posted by Jalliah at 6:50 PM on January 30, 2017 [25 favorites]


And the Yemen raid was a fuck-up. Suspicion over the weekend was that, since it was a ground operation, the aim was to bring back prisoners as trophies to restock Camp Delta.

Poor Jared. He thought he was special. Nice to see him feeling fucked over too.

MeFi's own (back in the day) Elizabeth Spiers worked for him at the Observer, and has her own thoughts on the relationship.
posted by holgate at 6:51 PM on January 30, 2017 [17 favorites]




I finally got around to the Jacobin article about Bannon being completely expendable and I have to say that I agree.

Yes, the alt-right can use all sorts of shenanigans to seem like they are a big movement on the internet but in reality they are cowards that largely limit their activities to the online world where it can be difficult to determine the precise number of people behind the various nazi anime twitter accounts trying to harass you. But think to yourself when have the alt-right ever shown up in force in meatspace? Most of the Trump rallies were primarily cranky old white fox-news watching men who are tired about minorities and women and LGBT individuals getting all uppity and lecturing them. Figures like Milo and Richard Spencer might have a few dozen "followers" around them at any given time but that's not even enough to stop someone from sucker punching a Nazi.

Bannon was useful during the campaign because Breitbart + Cambridge Analytics + Fake News factories could muddy the water enough to keep Democrats on the defensive but now the American public is seeing what sort of President Trump promises to be and they sure as shit don't like it.

I think you can see it in the increasingly whiny tone that Conway and Spicer and other proxies are taking and the distinct drop in Trumpistas trying to silence us with "We won and you lost".

No doubt Trump is still moderately popular in large swathes of the country but if you are anywhere near a big city or even a moderate large town it's pretty clear that the energy has completely gone out of the sails of the Trump supporters while the left is getting fired the fuck up.

Trump seems loyal to those who are willing to kiss his ass all the time but if people like Bannon are telling Trump that he's really popular but can't seem to actually make that support materialize then they are ultimately expendable.

And you can guarantee that the Priebus faction is more than willing to plunge the dagger in Bannon's back.
posted by vuron at 6:52 PM on January 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


Can Jared and Ivanka outrun Trump's scandals?

I sincerely hope not.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 6:52 PM on January 30, 2017 [50 favorites]


Wormtongue managed to keep his job for a while.

Hopefully this also ends with Bannon and Trump stuck in Trump Tower surrounded by angry trees.


There is a place.
posted by lagomorphius at 6:52 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


It's not going to take too much more for Trump to be seen as worse than Ahmedinejad or Ghaddafi. If Mattis' happened to resign and his seat was filled with a real wacko, Trump would have to start worrying about the Canadian border, where European troops will be massing.

Keep in mind that Trump will probably flip to "nice guy" in the not too distant future and the media won't be able to help themselves but go along.
posted by rhizome at 6:53 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


For a bunch of "tough guys", Trump and his crew of cowards and bullies sure are sensitive about their fee-fees being hurt.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:54 PM on January 30, 2017 [42 favorites]


I'm thinking some sort of fungus, but one that has the capacity to feel hate.

Will Dog Turd Fungus do?


I never thought I'd go on the internet to defend nasty-looking fungi, but unlike FuckfaceTrump, at the very least they fill a very important ecological niche.
posted by otenba at 6:54 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Mattis really has to stay, if only to take Trump into custody and frog-march him out of the Oval Office.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:54 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


Keep in mind that Trump will probably flip to "nice guy" in the not too distant future

People said that after the election. Look how that turned out. He's not going to change. This is who he is.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:54 PM on January 30, 2017 [20 favorites]






That might as well be Scahill's pinned tweet, because that's all The Intercept does.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:56 PM on January 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


He's not going to change. This is who he is.

I hear that. Maybe I'm banking too much on a media strategy and he's really just furiously wanking every time Gap Kuato leaves the room.
posted by rhizome at 6:56 PM on January 30, 2017


Jeremy Scahill: Early tomorrow morning, we will publish a major story at @theintercept that the government does not want out. Stay tuned.

I hope it's a good story, so kudos to them, but jeez, these people even tweet like Julian Assange. Will they be promising they're all in perfect health next?
posted by zachlipton at 6:57 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


That might as well be Scahill's pinned tweet, because that's all The Intercept does.

Nope, posted 45min ago.
posted by rhizome at 6:57 PM on January 30, 2017




"President Bannon' has been showing up in a lot of places.

President Bannon's Hugely Destructive First Week in Office

foreignpolicy.com for example.
posted by futz at 6:57 PM on January 30, 2017 [24 favorites]


Every time I read somebody saying they're going to publish a major story that somebody doesn't want out, I figure its going to be something like "Orrin Hatch smells like Geritol" and that the announcement is just a way to gin up interest. PROVE ME WRONG INTERCEPT.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:57 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


She's not going to be fired. They'll just fast-track the Sessions nomination.

Oh man, it's so weird being so far behind on the thread. Like I'm a time traveler from the future screaming out across the timeline trying to warn you. Is this what tehund felt like?

Okay, back up to the top to see this unfold in slow motion.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:57 PM on January 30, 2017 [63 favorites]


Your words give me hope, vuron, but I think Bannon's hold on Trump, and his vision is what is fueling our current unpleasantness. Without him, Trump's vision is gold curtains and weekends at Mar A Lago. Someone upthread said Bannon looks like Trump and it's true; I'm convinced Bannon is Trumps mirror made flesh.

When Trump looks at Bannon, he sees himself, only a little younger, a little smarter (in a visionary, clever about politics way, because Bannon did put Trump in the White House) and with (most importantly) way, way better hair.
posted by valkane at 6:58 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


xXx_WarriorMonk_xXx will quote Marcus Aurelius in his most serious voice as he carpet bombs Raqqa
posted by theodolite at 6:59 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


Jeremy Scahill: Early tomorrow morning, we will publish a major story at @theintercept that the government does not want out.

It's probably about the Clinton foundation.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:00 PM on January 30, 2017 [42 favorites]


This is already feeling like Nixon's last days. I managed to protest at both nixon's 1972 inauguration and the mayday protests covered in a recent FPP. Keep up the pressure on both Trump and congress and maybe we'll see an impeachment (though I'm not at all sure I want Pence as president).
posted by Death and Gravity at 7:00 PM on January 30, 2017 [36 favorites]


Lawrence O'Donnell says that the new Acting AG is not authorized for the FISA surveillance.

Trump spokesperson says that he is.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:01 PM on January 30, 2017 [16 favorites]


The H1B program is absolutely one of the things that has made the US tech sector the strongest in the world; at the same time, there is rampant abuse by companies importing low-skilled cheap labor.

The H1B is a shitty visa class, shittily implemented. It is used the way it's used (both at the big tech co. end and the Infosys end) because there isn't really anything else, though big tech cos with a global presence have moved towards using L1s to bring people in from overseas offices, and even O1s for their top-tier hires. The job lock is a mess. It should really be an EB class, but credentialing in the tech industry isn't as mature as academia and medicine and other typical EB recipients.
posted by holgate at 7:02 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


Umm... did he just declare Google, Twitter, and Facebook to be US gov't assets?

That language is (almost) directly from the Patriot Act. 42 USC § 5195c (e).
posted by skymt at 7:02 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


Keep in mind that Trump will probably flip to "nice guy" in the not too distant future and the media won't be able to help themselves but go along.
I honestly am not convinced that he has the emotional control to do that when he feels that his authority is being challenged. He's like a toddler, except that most toddlers haven't had time to develop massive masculinity issues.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:03 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


How to Build an Autocracy [warning, David Frum].
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:04 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


I disagree with you Death and Gravity. This feels like October 1973. The Saturday Night Massacre. The not giving the tapes. Nixon's final days were still another 10 months away.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:04 PM on January 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


yeah Sessions most likely gets fast tracked and confirmed in record time because no Senator wants ads running during re-election saying terror could have happened without FISA warrants.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 7:05 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Things move faster these days.

He said, hope in his voice.
posted by Etrigan at 7:05 PM on January 30, 2017 [12 favorites]


Mattis really has to stay, if only to take Trump into custody and frog-march him out of the Oval Office.

There was a comment upthread linking to a military discussion. After reading that and few others I found after that one the Mattis support is bake in. There was even discussion about what would happen if they were asked to do illegal things or reckless things that would lead to many being killed and they feel that Mattis is the only bulwark to that happening right now. And concerns about this are only growing. Also got the feeling that although it would be messy if Mattis had to go against Trump for some serious reason, that although messy per the discussion that Mattis would have a lot of military personal following his lead and not Trump's. (Air Force is it's own story)

Mattis needs to stay for now even with his warts.
posted by Jalliah at 7:05 PM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


Okay, back up to the top to see this unfold in slow motion.

Take me to your planet please where things can be observed on earth in slow motion. My head is spinning in real time.
posted by futz at 7:06 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


(that was about Nixon's last days, not Sessions' next days)
posted by Etrigan at 7:06 PM on January 30, 2017


Being fired by Donald Trump is the highest civilian honor the presidency can confer
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:06 PM on January 30, 2017 [215 favorites]


Just reread the Yates press release. When it says, This order was approved as to form and legality by the Department of Justice Office of Legal Counsel, I can only guess that means someone at OLC told them that the president has authority to issue executive orders. Because I don't believe that anyone at OLC read that piece of crap and said, "yep, looks good to me."
posted by alligatorpear at 7:06 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


Keep in mind that Trump will probably flip to "nice guy" in the not too distant future and the media won't be able to help themselves but go along.

lol i feel like you maybe don't have a lot of experience with infantile thin-skinned narcissistic men with egos far out of proportion to any of their body parts but i can guaranfuckingtee every woman here on mefi has dated at least one shitstain like this

he will only get worse, and also violent
posted by poffin boffin at 7:07 PM on January 30, 2017 [114 favorites]


The history of the of the American Presidency is also the history of the Calamity Bannon, a primal evil that has endured over the ages
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:07 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Keep in mind that Trump will probably flip to "nice guy" in the not too distant future and the media won't be able to help themselves but go along.

He'll flip to nice guy just as soon as everyone in the world agrees with him all the time and is never critical of anything he says or does.
posted by wondermouse at 7:07 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


Is there any evidence that Trump has ever been in nice guy mode during his entire public life?
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:08 PM on January 30, 2017 [18 favorites]


Everyone is looking for a new word, but the word already exists. These people are Nazis. The whole meme of Godwin has lessened that term in the current world, but it's the only term that truly fits. Everybody knows they were the baddies. Even the baddies that emulate them. So that's the term of truth. Nazi. Use it.
posted by valkane at 7:08 PM on January 30, 2017 [58 favorites]


Doesn't the acting AG have to be confirmed by Congress?
posted by marguerite at 7:08 PM on January 30, 2017


I feel like, if Trump is ousted, we have to keep up the momentum and push for electoral college reform, by which I mean popular vote elections. That's where I hope we go on Pence. Aim for the Republican jugular, nationwide strikes and protests until it's done.
posted by saysthis at 7:08 PM on January 30, 2017 [23 favorites]


And you can guarantee that the Priebus faction is more than willing to plunge the dagger in Bannon's back.

I'm not convinced that Priebus' agenda differs enough from Bannon's for that.

More importantly, I just don't see Trump firing Bannon at this point, for any reason. The only thing that could get Bannon fired would be to say "no", and he won't.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:09 PM on January 30, 2017


yeah Sessions most likely gets fast tracked and confirmed in record time because no Senator wants ads running during re-election saying terror could have happened without FISA warrants.

Good point, but on the other hand, I think the Senate may have just gotten very interested indeed in whether Sessions a) was as behind the Muslim Ban as he is thought to be and b) will rubber-stamp any crazy thing Trump wants.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:09 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


This is how the rule of law dies.

The rule of law died when the GOP announced it would refuse to hold hearings on the nominee to fill the vacant Supreme Court seat the same day the seat became vacant. No, they had no idea that killing respect for the rule of law would come in so handy a year later, but boy are they gleefully accepting the benefits.
posted by crush-onastick at 7:10 PM on January 30, 2017 [150 favorites]


Trump gave a not completely crazy interview with the New York Times right after the election that gave me some mild hope. Then came January 20th and he blew it all up. I've been wondering what exactly happened in the time between.
posted by lagomorphius at 7:10 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


No, the acting AG isn't confirmed by congress (that's what the "acting" part means - they aren't the "real" AG)
posted by alligatorpear at 7:10 PM on January 30, 2017


I feel like, if Trump is ousted, we have to keep up the momentum and push for electoral college reform, by which I mean popular vote elections. That's where I hope we go on Pence. Aim for the Republican jugular, nationwide strikes and protests until it's done.

National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. Call your state legislators.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:10 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]




He'll flip to nice guy just as soon as everyone in the world agrees with him all the time and is never critical of anything he says or does.

The truly pathetic thing is that not even that could make him a nice guy.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:12 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump lost O'Reilly. (O'Reilly: "Protecting Americans is...priority #1, but the nobility of our nation demands we help suffering, helpless people if we can.")

I would like you to know that this revelation just triggered a chorus of shock and confusion in my household via the following exchange:

"Holy shit, he lost O'Reilly."

"....O'Reily?"

"O'Reily!"

"Hey, he lost O'Reily!"

"O'Reily?!"

"Oh my god, O'Reily."

"He seriously lost O'Reily?"

"How did he lose O'Reily?!?"

"Seriously, O'Reily?"
posted by sciatrix at 7:12 PM on January 30, 2017 [37 favorites]


THIS IS FINE. U.S. says Iran has tested a ballistic missile

"President Trump, the protests are continuing, your firing of AAG Yates is being reported as childish and petty, and questions are building about--" "HEY LOOK OVER THERE! IRAN!"
posted by delfin at 7:12 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


More importantly, I just don't see Trump firing Bannon at this point, for any reason. The only thing that could get Bannon fired would be to say "no", and he won't.

Reasons that Trump might fire Bannon, or also complete fan fiction that will never happen.

Kushner and Ivanka have a serious talk with Dad and threaten that they will work and running his company and name into the ground if they don't fire Bannon.

Senate and Congress repubs, tell Trump point blank that if Bannon doesn't go they will start impeachment proceedings.

That's all I got.
posted by Jalliah at 7:13 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump gave a not completely crazy interview with the New York Times right after the election that gave me some mild hope. Then came January 20th and he blew it all up. I've been wondering what exactly happened in the time between.

Were you not paying attention for the last year? Seriously.
posted by futz at 7:13 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


> Newt Gingrich: Trump practiced "you're fired for years". (sic) Today he applied it to an insubordinate acting atty general. Congratulations.

Hey, everyone, remember when Newt Gingrich was a thing?
posted by tonycpsu at 7:14 PM on January 30, 2017 [16 favorites]


I feel like, if Trump is ousted, we have to keep up the momentum and push for electoral college reform, by which I mean popular vote elections.
You know, let's do the Trump being ousted thing, and then we'll talk about what comes next. Because right now, the country descending into full-on fascism is actually a lot more likely than Trump being ousted. You are banking on the patriotism and integrity of high-ranking Republicans. Chew on that before you start getting optimistic about the potential for electoral college reform.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:14 PM on January 30, 2017 [29 favorites]


The staffers signed nondisclosure agreements, according to two sources familiar with the matter. Trump's transition operation forced its staff to sign these agreements, but it would be unusual to extend that requirement to congressional employees. Rexrode declined to comment on the nondisclosure pacts.

My understanding of 1st amendment jurisprudence is pretty weak but I'm almost 100% certain the President can't gag some random capitol hill staffer when it comes to drafting a policy. You can force people to shut up about national security stuff, like military secrets, but not about what was said in a meeting about drafting an executive order.
posted by dis_integration at 7:14 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trump gave a not completely crazy interview with the New York Times right after the election that gave me some mild hope. Then came January 20th and he blew it all up. I've been wondering what exactly happened in the time between.

Were you not paying attention for the last year? Seriously.
posted by futz at 7:13 PM on January 30 [+] [!]


I said MILD hope but thanks for the free snark. I do read the news.
posted by lagomorphius at 7:15 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


Senate and Congress repubs, tell Trump point blank that if Bannon doesn't go they will start impeachment proceedings.

You think he feels threatened by impeachment at this point? He has no respect for the other branches of government, and he won't abide by anything they say.

Literally our only hope is that the Secret Service refuses to defend him when the Marshals come knocking at the Oval Office door.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:16 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


@BNONews: BREAKING: President Trump dismisses Acting Immigration and Customs Enforcement Director Daniel Ragsdale

Thomas D. Homan has been appointed to take over as Acting Director of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency

posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:16 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


You are banking on the patriotism and integrity of high-ranking Republicans.

i just shouted aloud with such abandoned laughter, oh my god
posted by poffin boffin at 7:16 PM on January 30, 2017 [25 favorites]


where's that gifset where the japanese scientist is like "with mothra's aid we could approach the fairies for help"
posted by poffin boffin at 7:17 PM on January 30, 2017 [22 favorites]


A couple of reminders from history that Nazis tend to have their arses handed to them in the end: *fingers crossed it is sooner rather than later this time*

Jean-Luc Godard Gives a Dramatic Reading of Hannah Arendt’s “On the Nature of Totalitarianism”
Recently we realized that the tyranny, not of reason but argumentation, like an immense compulsive force exercised on the mind of men can serve specifically political tyranny. But this truth also remains that every end in history necessarily contains a new beginning. This beginning is the only promise, the only message which the end can ever give. St Augustine said that man was created so that there could be a beginning. This beginning is guaranteed by each new birth, it is, in truth, each man.
The Great Dictator Speech - Charlie Chaplin
To those who can hear me I say "Do not despair".

The misery that is now upon us is but the passing of greed, the bitterness of men who fear the way of human progress:
the hate of men will pass and dictators die and the power they took from the people, will return to the people and so long as men die liberty will never perish . . .
posted by Buntix at 7:17 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


The acting Attorney General, Sally Yates, has betrayed the Department of Justice

We see again Trump's obsession with loyalty and betrayal. He truly believes that he is actually a dictator, that the entire government answers to him and him alone.

Also,
Calling for tougher vetting for individuals traveling from seven dangerous places is not extreme
But you promised us EXTREME VETTING
HOW COULD YOU BETRAY AMERICA LIKE THIS
posted by J.K. Seazer at 7:18 PM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


delfin: THIS IS FINE. U.S. says Iran has tested a ballistic missile

This is my nightmare scenario, not because I fear them using one against us, but because I fear Trump+Bannon+Flynn using it as an excuse to kick of their Holy War with a nuke dropped on Tehran.
posted by bluecore at 7:18 PM on January 30, 2017 [19 favorites]


ok this thread is officially going too fast for me to keep up with.

Parting thoughts before I go to bed: I had a kickass civic studies (we just plain called it "government") teacher in high school. Just knew his topic, taught it well. He made us pledge at the end of his class to always vote, and I have kept that pledge.

He said that no republic lasts forever. That history shows it doesn't. I thought he was wrong. Or at least that the USA could overcome many of the other problems that plagued other republics. We were the USA! Rah Rah Stars and Stripes and Freedoms! (I was, and perhaps still am, an unabashedly proud citizen of my country)

I am scared to think he was right and that this is happening in my lifetime.
posted by INFJ at 7:19 PM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


Yeah.. Who had "Tuesday" for the war starting in the office pool?
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:20 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


Oof, so much going on but this must be stopped too. Should be a no-brainer.

600+ Protesters plan on protesting at Trumps Palm Beach mansion on February 4th to protest the Red Cross having its yearly ball hosted there.
posted by futz at 7:20 PM on January 30, 2017 [29 favorites]


Thomas D. Homan has been appointed to take over as Acting Director of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency

In case you were curious about Homan's background.
posted by Copronymus at 7:21 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


My understanding of 1st amendment jurisprudence is pretty weak but I'm almost 100% certain the President can't gag some random capitol hill staffer when it comes to drafting a policy. You can force people to shut up about national security stuff, like military secrets, but not about what was said in a meeting about drafting an executive order.

Especially if said staffer gets served with a Congressional subpoena. (Hey, I can dream, alright?)
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:21 PM on January 30, 2017


My understanding of 1st amendment jurisprudence is pretty weak but I'm almost 100% certain the President can't gag some random capitol hill staffer when it comes to drafting a policy.

Well, the amendment does only say Congress shall make no law...

No, but seriously, the argument would either be 1) that it's contractual, not the government acting in its sovereign capacity to prohibit speech, or 2) that government employees absolutely have their free speech inhibited as a condition of their employment. (Like, the Hatch Act prevents certain political speech in certain conditions.)
posted by alligatorpear at 7:21 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trump is less than 2 weeks into office and the sharks are already circling. McConnell and Ryan aren't tossing in chum yet but they sure as shit aren't leaping to Trump's defense either.

The interviewers are already getting tired of Conway's song and dance routine particularly as it goes full "Why is everyone picking on us!". Spicer has pretty much already lost the White House press corps. They aren't in full fledged mutiny yet but you can tell by the increasingly testy relationship that's not far off.

Trump is already at 50% disapproval and I believe that's before this weekend's debacle really took shape.

Bannon like Rove before him is supposed to keep this shit under control. You didn't see Axelrod doing anything resembling this sort of nonsense.

Nope this is on Bannon + Miller + Sessions and obviously Trump. But when it's clear that Trump is expecting to be an absentee landlord, I mean who the fuck would schedule a vacation during a full on meltdown of your administration, you have to point fingers at the senior political staff and go "Oh man those guys fucked up".

Think about it,these guys are having to push forward the SCOTUS nominee as a way of changing the news cycle because they are getting crushed and they desperately need some way of changing the narrative.
posted by vuron at 7:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [21 favorites]


I had a kickass history teacher in high school too. I remember this well: "What was the primary cause of World War II? Nationalism."
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [17 favorites]


Thomas D. Homan has been appointed to take over as Acting Director of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency

Thats the guy who is in charge of all of ICE's deportations.
posted by Lord_Pall at 7:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


You think he feels threatened by impeachment at this point? He has no respect for the other branches of government, and he won't abide by anything they say.

Literally our only hope is that the Secret Service refuses to defend him when the Marshals come knocking at the Oval Office door.


Of course he doesn't feel threatened by it. You have to actually understand something works to be threatened by it.

As I said, fan fiction and won't happen. I was just responding to the what in total dreamland might make Trump dump Bannon.

And since those to things are ridiculous fan-fiction the real answer is probably nothing that us on the outside have any control over.

Bannon is putting a huge target on his head though for all the others that want to have some sort of control or influence with the President. Must be the worst office politics ever in that place right now.
posted by Jalliah at 7:23 PM on January 30, 2017


"Nominations for the JFK Profile in Courage Award Nominations accepted on a rolling basis through February 1, 2017."

Nominations for the EMcG Profiles in Courage (Sarcastic Edition) Award on Twitter accepted daily, help a sister out with examples of Republicans wussing out big-time or backing off their prior statements of principle.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:24 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


god, "i wish i could hear what scalia would have to say about all this" is not something i ever imagined in all my wildest dreams i might one day think
posted by poffin boffin at 7:24 PM on January 30, 2017 [42 favorites]


Is BNO news a real website? They are the only ones reporting the ICE story.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:24 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


Oh, and actually, there's a special privilege called the presidential communications privilege that prevents the disclosure of communications with or from the privilege in lawsuits or from subpoenas, so that isn't a method of getting someone to spill about what they said to POTUS or high level WH staff.
posted by alligatorpear at 7:24 PM on January 30, 2017


Trump's an asshole. He's always been an asshole and will be an asshole until the day he dies. He will not and cannot change - he's egotistical, brash, and not very bright, and has been that way for his entire adult life (and as far as I know even earlier).

But people like him attract cunning, unscrupulous people who can flatter him and play his lizard brain to their benefit. It's a twisted symbiosis that's been around as long as there have been evil and stupid but powerful and suggestible people and evil, crafty people who work best from the shadows.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 7:24 PM on January 30, 2017 [17 favorites]


What will Congress do when the people march on Washington and won't go away?
posted by Devonian at 7:25 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]




Did that asshole just say "It's sad that our politics have become so politicized"?
posted by Etrigan at 7:26 PM on January 30, 2017 [95 favorites]


I What will Congress do when the people march on Washington and won't go away?

I was just thinking who would be the first person killed in this whole mess and when. Probably find out over the next month, god help us.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:26 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Must be the worst office politics ever in that place right now.

Not just right now but since the very beginning (has it only been 11 days?), considering it's had more leaks about the personal lives and foibles of the principals than the Obama White House did in 8 years. They all hate each other and love whining to the press about how stupid and mean everyone else is.
posted by Copronymus at 7:27 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


I think Bannon knows that it would take a long-ass time for Congress to get its impeachment act together, with weeks and months of telegraphing strategy, so even if it does happen, the WH has time on their side and can do a lot of damage, possibly the kind of damage that affects Congress' ability to impeach him.
posted by rhizome at 7:27 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


What will Congress do when the people march on Washington and won't go away?

Ever hear of the Bonus Army?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:27 PM on January 30, 2017 [27 favorites]


Nominations for the EMcG Profiles in Courage (Sarcastic Edition) Award on Twitter accepted daily

John McCain all day every day, lifetime achievement award, eventually had to be specifically excluded so someone else had a shot at the prize
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:27 PM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


I feel like, if Trump is ousted, we have to keep up the momentum and push for electoral college reform, by which I mean popular vote elections.

You know, let's do the Trump being ousted thing, and then we'll talk about what comes next. Because right now, the country descending into full-on fascism is actually a lot more likely than Trump being ousted. You are banking on the patriotism and integrity of high-ranking Republicans. Chew on that before you start getting optimistic about the potential for electoral college reform.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:14 AM on January 31 [2 favorites +] [!]


If they're not gone, we're all leaving a hell of a trail of breadcrumbs for 'em right here. So chin up. No other option now. Hit the streets, keep protesting, keep up the pressure. They'll crack.
posted by saysthis at 7:28 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


Can we just change the locks to the White House while Trump is on vacation?
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:29 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


nope, it's real
posted by avocet at 7:29 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


If Trump is ousted, I'm not so attached to electoral college reform at this point so much as presidential-power reduction. This could be turning into the right time to switch to a more parliamentary system.
posted by rhizome at 7:30 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


First Trump and Bannon make everyone at every level unsure of their standing:

Cabinet members
Generals
Spymasters
Friends
Enemies
Citizens

Some subset is cowed, great!

Others stand up. In those cases either fire them (Acting AG, State Dept Leadership) or pit them against each other (Mattis vs Tillerson, white poor vs white rich, Christians vs Muslims, etc)

In this chaos, no contender can build a base to threaten Trump.

It worked for a long time for Stalin, and has Machiavelli's approval.
posted by zippy at 7:31 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Literally our only hope is that the Secret Service refuses to defend him when the Marshals come knocking at the Oval Office door.

Of course he still has his own private security because we are so fucked.
posted by ckape at 7:31 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


Sarah Jeong, who is trustworthy and knows her stuff, says Boente is empowered to sign FISA orders.
posted by zachlipton at 7:31 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


"If Trump is ousted, I'm not so attached to electoral college reform at this point so much as presidential-power reduction. "

A huge part of the reason the presidency has become so powerful is the absolute collapse of Congress's willingness to make hard choices or get anything done or, you know, fucking legislate. We're stuck with the imperial presidency until Congress gets its act together. (Which, honestly, I wonder if it doesn't take a change in MEDIA before Congress changes, because they just run scared of Fox News and its like and the 24-hour news cycle and the ability to compromise and make trade-offs and make sophisticated policy choices.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:34 PM on January 30, 2017 [42 favorites]


Boente is empowered to sign FISA orders.

So no big hurry on Sessions then.

Is it just me, or has today been like 97 hours long?
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:34 PM on January 30, 2017 [39 favorites]


97:35 by my clock.
posted by valkane at 7:35 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


Can we just change the locks to the White House while Trump is on vacation?

There are like twenty landlording AskMes where people get told not to do that. 'fraid we have to go through the whole long, painful eviction process.
posted by jackbishop at 7:35 PM on January 30, 2017 [19 favorites]


I'll take 10 months to impeachment if it's like Nixon's last 10 months. But if we can keep the pressure up, I suspect he'll resign earlier because he's feeling so butthurt.
posted by Death and Gravity at 7:36 PM on January 30, 2017


What is this? The Monday Night Massacre? A new Night of Long Knives? The baptism scene from the Godfather?
posted by nubs at 7:36 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


nope, it's real

Sorry, that doesn't say anything about how his predecessor betrayed the Trump administration or have even a little bit of the tone of a Facebook rant about being overcharged at a Denny's, so it can't be real.
posted by Copronymus at 7:36 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


George W. Bush used "shock and awe" to attack Iraq. Trump's using it to attack the USA.
posted by porn in the woods at 7:37 PM on January 30, 2017 [28 favorites]


A huge part of the reason the presidency has become so powerful is the absolute collapse of Congress's willingness to make hard choices or get anything done or, you know, fucking legislate. We're stuck with the imperial presidency until Congress gets its act together. (Which, honestly, I wonder if it doesn't take a change in MEDIA before Congress changes, because they just run scared of Fox News and its like and the 24-hour news cycle and the ability to compromise and make trade-offs and make sophisticated policy choices.)

Maybe it's just time for the entire system to end. More than a few posters from countries with parliamentary systems have expressed surprise that our system has lasted as long as it has.
posted by indubitable at 7:37 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


Just checked google is still accurate: "worst president"
posted by Buntix at 7:38 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


Another dictionary joins the fight.

@Dictionarycom:
The Holocaust ("The" is important): "the systematic mass slaughter of European Jews"

Not much ambiguity on that: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/holocaust
posted by chris24 at 7:38 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


Schumer is talking about the Yates firing on the Senate floor.
posted by prefpara at 7:38 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


El Presidente will never resign. Admit his a loser?Never!
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 7:38 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


As a reminder, despite all Trump's whining about the fact that Sessions hasn't been confirmed, he's only appointed 28 out of the 658 positions requiring Senate confirmation, and that's ignoring the thousands of non-confirmable staff positions.

As a completely random example, chosen for no particular reason whatsoever, he has not actually nominated his own Assistant Secretary for Immigration and Customs Enforcement. That acting assistant secretary was in place precisely because Trump hasn't been bothered to appoint someone for the job. He has also not nominated a Director or U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services or a Commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection.
posted by zachlipton at 7:39 PM on January 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


Can we quit talking about how we're winning culture wars and how many people Trump has lost?

Because losing the population doesn't matter right now unless we're committed to overturning the institution of government as we know it.

And that terrifies me.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 7:39 PM on January 30, 2017 [18 favorites]


But if we can keep the pressure up, I suspect he'll resign earlier because he's feeling so butthurt.

I'm afraid that his stubbornness outweighs his prissiness. He's not going to leave until he's forced out.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:40 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


I can barely keep up with it all - and I imagine a lot of people with busy lives have absolutely no clue what exactly is happening
posted by rosswald at 7:40 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


This night is a shitshow. I am dizzy.
posted by prefpara at 7:41 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Just keep telling him there's still time to beat William Henry Harrison's record.
posted by ckape at 7:41 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


Eyebrows have you seen this from March from Speaker Ryan?

The president’s gross abuse of his executive powers, both in regard to immigration and throughout his presidency, has created a fourth branch of government that operates with little to no transparency and undermines Congress
posted by hilaryjade at 7:41 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


You mean there are people who don't just sit there and update metafilter all damn day?
posted by ian1977 at 7:41 PM on January 30, 2017 [16 favorites]


i was really, really hoping that Sarah Kendzior was being too pessimistic during election season, but she's looking like the Cassandra to our Troy right now
posted by murphy slaw at 7:42 PM on January 30, 2017 [18 favorites]




In other news today, a 25-pound bobcat escaped from the National Zoo. I know how she feels. I want out too.
posted by zachlipton at 7:43 PM on January 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


But they will.
posted by drezdn at 7:44 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


The president’s gross abuse of his executive powers

This is classic Republicanism. Obama probably did make a couple of executive orders that were dubious, but, for the most part, he conducted himself like previous Presidents. However, it was essential to the narrative to lie and claim that this constituted an unprecedented abuse of power. Now that Trump is in office, what do you see? The actual thing.
posted by thelonius at 7:44 PM on January 30, 2017 [12 favorites]


People are going to notice though if Trump's actions result in a couple of big sell offs on Wall Street. A lot of Trump's voters are boomers that are trying to get ready for retirement and if they start seeing their 401ks drop like a rock then they are going to get nervous and they are going to start calling their legislators in a panic. Especially if the propaganda channels like Fox News start voicing dissent against Trump.

Yeah there are the 27% that are effectively unreachable but that isn't enough to win re-election.
posted by vuron at 7:45 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


CNN: Democrats consider backing off big battle over Trump's Supreme Court pick
The reason for the tactic: Republicans are considering gutting the filibuster for Supreme Court nominees if Democrats stay largely united and block Trump's first pick. By employing the so-called "nuclear option," Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell could move to reduce the threshold for clearing a filibuster from 60 votes to 51 votes.
posted by zachlipton at 7:45 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm watching Jaws where they're trying to convince the mayor to close the beaches on the 4th of July and it seems eerily similar to the reactions of Congress members.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:45 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


I keep writing and rewriting this comment because I'm worried I keep sounding too hyperbolic, but I'm realizing that there really is no such thing as hyperbole anymore.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 7:46 PM on January 30, 2017 [16 favorites]


I'll take 10 months to impeachment if it's like Nixon's last 10 months. But if we can keep the pressure up, I suspect he'll resign earlier because he's feeling so butthurt.

I'm happy to be proven wrong by reality here, but my strong bet is still that Trump will never, ever resign, or concede defeat. Shackles or a pine box. Those are our options.
posted by dis_integration at 7:46 PM on January 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


As a reminder, despite all Trump's whining about the fact that Sessions hasn't been confirmed, he's only appointed 28 out of the 658 positions requiring Senate confirmation, and that's ignoring the thousands of non-confirmable staff positions.

This is intentional. They're going to run a shadow government out of the White House under Bannon's personal direction, consistent with the Coup Attempt link upthread.

Yeah there are the 27% that are effectively unreachable but that isn't enough to win re-election.

We're more concerned about what's going to be left to save in the next 4 months, much less 4 years. Reelection is kind of far down on the list at the moment.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:47 PM on January 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


The reason for the tactic: Republicans are considering gutting the filibuster for Supreme Court nominees if Democrats stay largely united and block Trump's first pick. By employing the so-called "nuclear option," Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell could move to reduce the threshold for clearing a filibuster from 60 votes to 51 votes.

so in other words "we're going to be cowards to preserve a rule on filibusters even though our reasoning means we'll never actually mount one because then the Republicans would change the rules"?
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 7:47 PM on January 30, 2017 [87 favorites]


Democrats lets Nazis walk all over them, film at 11:00.
posted by valkane at 7:47 PM on January 30, 2017 [27 favorites]


Can we quit talking about how we're winning culture wars and how many people Trump has lost?

Because losing the population doesn't matter right now unless we're committed to overturning the institution of government as we know it.

And that terrifies me.


This really can't be stated enough. President Bannon's personally stated goal is to destroy the entire establishment of government in this country. Democrats, Republicans, media, all of it. We have to get these assholes out NOW, because if we decide to wait and try to play fair it's not going to matter which way people would like to vote because there sure as hell won't be any elections to vote in.
posted by IAmUnaware at 7:48 PM on January 30, 2017 [25 favorites]


I did my taxes while the news of Yates's firing was breaking, so there is surely some sort of time dilation effect going on here.
posted by Leslie Knope at 7:48 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


CNN: Democrats consider backing off big battle over Trump's Supreme Court pick

I swear to God, if millions of people marching in the streets of virtually every large and small city across the country on the first two weekends of a Trump Presidency filled with unconstitutional, evil, and incompetent activity can't convince the fucking Democrats in the Senate to show even a tiny amount of backbone, maybe they really are beyond saving.
posted by Copronymus at 7:49 PM on January 30, 2017 [114 favorites]


Early tomorrow morning, we will publish a major story at @theintercept that the government does not want out. Stay tuned.

Could we please quit posting teasers like this? We did this hundreds of times during the campaign and they almost never panned out.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:49 PM on January 30, 2017 [22 favorites]


McConnell and Ryan seem to be quite happy with a president who is many times the tyrant they acted like Obama was so long as he's a Republican.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 7:49 PM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


I did my taxes while the news of Yates's firing was breaking

see this is great actually because at least i won't have to worry about doing my taxes this year, surely

things are looking up
posted by poffin boffin at 7:50 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


hey're going to run a shadow government out of the White House under Bannon's personal direction,

They're going to try, all right, but they won't be able to do it. You can't run the US government with just a handful of people. And there are two factions now inside the White House.

Something's going to happen to Bannon.
posted by My Dad at 7:50 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Democrats consider backing off big battle over Trump's Supreme Court pick

My god the Democrats' spinelessness is just fucking staggering.
posted by Lyme Drop at 7:52 PM on January 30, 2017 [64 favorites]


McConnell and Ryan seem to be quite happy with a president who is many times the tyrant they acted like Obama was so long as he's a Republican.

they are truly the wolf who cried wolf
posted by prefpara at 7:52 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


CNN: Democrats consider backing off big battle over Trump's Supreme Court pick

Call all your Senators tomorrow. I'm calling Warner again on my lunch break to ream him for the Tillerson vote, and tell him to filibuster or be primaried. All Dems need to hear the same message loud and clear.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:53 PM on January 30, 2017 [27 favorites]


Something's going to happen to Bannon.

Yeah, he's gonna have another G&T and wake up in the morning, eat a bunch of ibuprofin and write another hideous EO.
posted by valkane at 7:53 PM on January 30, 2017 [36 favorites]


Call all your Senators tomorrow.

can i email? if i use words aloud i will most certainly go to prison for a very long time
posted by poffin boffin at 7:54 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


Fucking Democrats and their entire lack of collective common sense or spines. The GOP is not going to fucking blink guys, you have to stand your ground. ARGH.
posted by supercrayon at 7:55 PM on January 30, 2017 [19 favorites]


Yeah, he's gonna have another G&T and wake up in the morning, eat a bunch of ibuprofin and write another hideous EO.

You spelled snort a line of coke wrong.
posted by COD at 7:55 PM on January 30, 2017 [17 favorites]


epublicans are considering gutting the filibuster for Supreme Court nominees if Democrats stay largely united and block Trump's first pick. By employing the so-called "nuclear option," Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell could move to reduce the threshold for clearing a filibuster from 60 votes to 51 votes.

So what? None of the fuckers in the Senate - Republican or Democratic - seem to realize that they are rapidly becoming irrelevant. Trump's administration does not care for the established customs of how the government has been run; they are seeing just how much of it they can ignore. They don't need political capital to spend with anyone because they don't envision a government they need to work with that exists beyond the White House. Lose the filibuster? Who cares? The Senate is the 4th ring in a 3 ring circus right now.

Trump's administration is an existential threat to every part of the judicial and legislative branches, and they need to realize that, fast. He doesn't give a shit who he runs over.
posted by nubs at 7:56 PM on January 30, 2017 [31 favorites]


Can we quit talking about how we're winning culture wars and how many people Trump has lost?

Because losing the population doesn't matter right now unless we're committed to overturning the institution of government as we know it.

And that terrifies me.


I honestly can't tell if I'm turning into a crazy person, or if I'm just getting mentally prepared to join le resistance, or something. I feel a little bit like I'm drowning.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 7:56 PM on January 30, 2017 [12 favorites]


I emailed and called (and left a message -- but I'm assured by staffers that they tally voicemails too).

My script to my senators is that they should not vote on anything, refuse unanimous consent, etc. until the Republican leadership takes action to reign in the executive and its unconstitutional orders regarding immigration and refugees.
posted by R343L at 7:56 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


Can I send very ominous all caps faxes. Like: FILIBUSTER OR BE PRIMARIED. RESIST. TO DO ANY LESS IS TO COLLABORATE.
posted by yasaman at 7:57 PM on January 30, 2017 [29 favorites]


can i email?

No. Emailing is useless, they're as likely to read that as this comment on Metafilter. Call. Show up in person if you can. They record and respond to calls, emails get thrown in the trash folder unread.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:57 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


ok it's prison time then
posted by poffin boffin at 7:58 PM on January 30, 2017 [24 favorites]


The reason for the tactic: Republicans are considering gutting the filibuster for Supreme Court nominees if Democrats stay largely united and block Trump's first pick. By employing the so-called "nuclear option," Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell could move to reduce the threshold for clearing a filibuster from 60 votes to 51 votes.

In other words, Trump could nominate Richard "Insert Fist A Into Head B" Spencer and some Dems would be like "well, we have to conserve our precious political capital in case he nominates someone BAD next."
posted by delfin at 7:58 PM on January 30, 2017 [51 favorites]


ok it's prison time then

We'll send you packages.
posted by nubs at 7:59 PM on January 30, 2017 [15 favorites]


I'm halfway through the jar of tums I got for christmas
posted by flatluigi at 7:59 PM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


Is there any point in preserving the filibuster if you're never going to use it? At least one way you get the fuckers to do another terrible thing to add on when the bill comes due.

Or am I missing something in the 11-dimensional shit-throwing contest?

(Also, if Congress isn't worried about an executive which doesn't care about the law, then it's not joining the dots.)
posted by Devonian at 8:00 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


Well who could have predicted the GOP would scrap the filibuster the very first thing

The Democrats should be given more time to reformulate their strategy

Two, three months, tops
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:01 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


Melania's secret plan to continue the legacy of Michelle Obama, and to combat obesity was to get us to march in the streets every. damn. day.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:01 PM on January 30, 2017 [46 favorites]


T.D. Strange: I have been assured by multiple staffers that competent offices do in fact read email and tally the position the constituent is writing on. My experience is near 100% response rate when I ask for a response to an email (and if I am disappointed that my elected doesn't agree with me on some of those, they at least respond on the same topic). In these circumstances, I vote for an email with a few sentences (that you know are coherent) and a phone call (leaving message or not) with as coherent a version as you can make.
posted by R343L at 8:02 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


The president’s gross abuse of his executive powers, both in regard to immigration and throughout his presidency, has created a fourth branch of government that operates with little to no transparency and undermines Congress

FINALLY ... A politician with principles.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 8:02 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


zachlipton: "CNN: Democrats consider backing off big battle over Trump's Supreme Court pick
The reason for the tactic: Republicans are considering gutting the filibuster for Supreme Court nominees if Democrats stay largely united and block Trump's first pick. By employing the so-called "nuclear option," Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell could move to reduce the threshold for clearing a filibuster from 60 votes to 51 votes.
The only argument for this I see is that they're saving the big blockade for if/when he's replacing a justice from the left flank, which would alter the balance far more radically than replacing Scalia. But really, the GOP straight-up stole this nomination from President Obama, so unless he picks Garland (or maaaybe Hardiman, who is relatively centrist), they really should draw the hard line now rather than later when losing means losing the Court for a generation.
posted by Rhaomi at 8:03 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]



CNN is calling it the Monday Night Massacre
posted by Jalliah at 8:04 PM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


They can kill the filibuster, it's almost assured they will. But it's dead anyway. Democrats using it at all means Republicans will kill it, so leaving it alive only benefits Republicans if ever they were to be in the minority again (oh, to live to see that day...). The only play is to stand strong and force them to confirm a stolen seat on a party line vote. It's not much, but that's the only hand dealt at this point.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:04 PM on January 30, 2017 [42 favorites]


the Republicans have been warning us for a long time that the expansion of civil liberty protections to black and gay people would lead to the downfall of America... I just didn't realize they were talking about what they were planning to do...
posted by prefpara at 8:04 PM on January 30, 2017 [66 favorites]


The Democrats in the Senate ought to throw the Republican line about letting the people decide on the Supreme Court back in their obstructionist faces. The popular vote went against Trump, so we clearly need to wait for a president who has a popular mandate before confirming any Supreme Court justices. Senate Democrats should hold that line and repeat it to every journalist they talk to every day from now until the Republicans either cave or go through with the "nuclear option." When the Democrats eventually come back into power -- assuming the earth hasn't been obliterated entirely before then -- it will be a lot easier to get things done if the Republicans have already killed the filibuster.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 8:06 PM on January 30, 2017 [41 favorites]


If I was Ms. Yates I would frame that fucking letter and give it pride of place on my wall. Well done, Ms. Yates.
posted by emjaybee at 8:06 PM on January 30, 2017 [57 favorites]


So guys, I am sick with apparently massive flu, I think my immune system is just fucked at this point. So because I'm having delirious fever dreams I keep waking up and thinking this is all just a hilarious Metafilter anxiety dream and Trump isn't really president. I swear to god I have never been more glad to be sick just for those precious few minutes I think I hallucinated reality.
posted by corb at 8:07 PM on January 30, 2017 [32 favorites]


Everyone: email Feinstein's staff tonight if you want your thoughts conveyed on the Senate floor tomorrow. As here. Not just Californians!
posted by suelac at 8:07 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]




The only argument for this I see is that they're saving the big blockade for if/when he's replacing a justice from the left flank, which would alter the balance far more radically than replacing Scalia.

It doesn't matter. If Dems filibuster a later pick, they'll just kill it then. The filibuster isn't worth the paper its printed on.

Maybe the argument could hold if there was a chance to retake the Senate in 2018, but look at that map for Dems and weep. They'd be gambling on Trump not getting another pick for 4 years and Dems winning everything back in at-this-point-rather-dubious-free-elections in 2020.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:09 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


From the UK Parliament debate earlier (regarding Trump's muslim ban, not for the petition): The motion passed unanimously in House of Commons this eve condemning "Trump's discriminatory, divisive & counterproductive ban"

It didn't look to be a full house on the vid Devonian posted earlier, but still...

Also yay Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh who is my hillwalking area MP, if not my residency one.
posted by Buntix at 8:10 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


Jonathan Livengood: "The Democrats in the Senate ought to throw the Republican line about letting the people decide on the Supreme Court back in their obstructionist faces. The popular vote went against Trump, so we clearly need to wait for a president who has a popular mandate before confirming any Supreme Court justices."

God yes. The most vexing thing about the last week and change has been Trump acting like he's an FDR or a Reagan rather than the yugest popular vote loser in nearly two centuries. He doesn't have the mandate to name a post office, much less turn the entire federal government on a dime like he's attempting.

Also, I'd thought that the filibuster could only be nixed at the start of each congressional session. But apparently it can happen any time? Where did I get the idea that you could only change Senate rules at the outset?
posted by Rhaomi at 8:11 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


Also, I'd thought that the filibuster could only be nixed at the start of each congressional session. But apparently it can happen any time? Where did I get the idea that you could only change Senate rules at the outset?

That's the case for reconciliation instructions, which are passed at the outset of the new Congress and can't be changed midstream. Not the filibuster, which at its core is simply a rule of Senate order. It can be changed at any time.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:14 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


This fake-ass cowboy state senator in Tennessee is so unnerved by hundreds of protestors chanting "Black Lives Matter" in the state capitol while the "state of the state" speech was going on that he's trying to stir up tired old paid protestor trope bullshit.

Lying asshole sir: I was there. We were nurses, librarians, students, workers of Tennessee. Not paid to be there, busting our ass to be there after work to call you on your hateful bullshit.
posted by ghharr at 8:14 PM on January 30, 2017 [83 favorites]


Bush II (The Bushening) also acted like he had a mandate straight out of the gate.

The reason for the tactic: Republicans are considering gutting the filibuster for Supreme Court nominees if Democrats stay largely united and block Trump's first pick.

Good. Do it. Make them nuke the filibuster. Let the blood be on their hands. If the Democrats can't block their shit, every single piece of shit is on the Republican's hands. Come on, Dems. Dare them to do it. Fuck them if they do, fuck them if they don't, but fuck you Dems if you don't force them to make that choice.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:17 PM on January 30, 2017 [81 favorites]


OK. I thought I might be able to hop on here tonight and get back in, but things are moving really fucking fast and I've got planning to do. I'll try again tomorrow.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:18 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


The only way you win a war is offense.
posted by valkane at 8:18 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


A coup-resisting guide by First Dog on the Moon:

Be fierce, furious, and fight! Join the Raccoons of the Resistance!

Includes excellent direct action tactical advice such as: "Now that we know Trump is afraid of stairs and ramps everyone should dress as a short flight of steps or a mild incline"
posted by Buntix at 8:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [12 favorites]


So let me tell y'all a little story. Tonight there was a Muslim Solidarity rally on the campus of Texas A&M. I couldn't make it due to my disability (I'm basically bedridden with pain right now) but I've been promoting the event and connecting people over it.

So it turns out this was an event planned not by any group or organization but by one student. She set the time at 8PM so her friend could make it after her lab. She expected maybe 30 people and made a FB event. Then local activists got a hold of it and promoted it all over, made press releases, got the word out. Estimates of turnout are at least 500. She was completely overwhelmed, in a good way.

There were chants against our local Rep who came out for the EO as well. The local Indivisible group had a good hand in promoting things.

This is a moment when little things can snowball and it only takes one person with an idea to DO something.
posted by threeturtles at 8:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [73 favorites]


Mod note: Couple deleted. Gently, folks, if you're having fantasies about self-harm, please stop reading political news and reach out to someone, a friend, a hotline, whatever. You can always reach us at the contact form. If you're not actually fantasizing about that, please don't bring idle talk about it in here; it's a hard time for everybody and self-harm talk ends up being not helpful for folks who are at their most vulnerable. Again - self-care, take breaks, let us know if you need to talk.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:23 PM on January 30, 2017 [51 favorites]


Paul Bailey isn't the only one trying to label all the protesters as being bankrolled.

(the responses are a seagull chorus of Soros)
posted by flatluigi at 8:25 PM on January 30, 2017


They're so out of practice. Like sending the interns to the WH press gaggles, this is an opportunity of ascendancy for any junior Congresspeople who still have the fire.
posted by rhizome at 8:26 PM on January 30, 2017


Maxine Waters going after him on Russia tomorrow morning.
posted by rhizome at 8:27 PM on January 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


And here's good ol' boy Ted Cruz, so far up Trump's arse he can almost touch the partially-digested feet of Chris Christie.
posted by Devonian at 8:27 PM on January 30, 2017 [27 favorites]


The reason the Right Wingnuts believe the demonstrators are paid to do it is because the only crowds they ever get are paid shills. (obvious Trump's Mirror) And Trumpy was pissed about the attendance for the inauguration because he thought Reincy had assured him he'd paid for a million-and-a-half people... and 3/4 of the paid shills were no-shows.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:27 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


How much money do they think Soros has anyway? Sheesh.
posted by emjaybee at 8:28 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Hm, I checked my mailbox when I came home from work. Still no check from Soros. Where's my money?
posted by Hairy Lobster at 8:28 PM on January 30, 2017 [15 favorites]


Two hours ago, when I posted this, Kai Penn had raised about $718K in his campaign and was going for 3/4 of a million.

He is now only about 10 grand away from that target.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:29 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


A huge part of the reason the presidency has become so powerful is the absolute collapse of Congress's willingness to make hard choices or get anything done or, you know, fucking legislate. We're stuck with the imperial presidency until Congress gets its act together.

The reason the presidency is currently powerful is that Congress* agrees with the president. Mealy-mouthed statements notwithstanding, there are tons of things that Congress could do to restrain and redirect the president, including passing all sorts of laws or reiterating the meaning of existing ones. But it actively chooses not to. During the Obama presidency, Congress was quite active blocking Obama's ambitions, though of course unable to pass significant legislation without his signature. Now that it has the signature, it's switching back to active law-creation rather than than law-blocking. It's act is very much together, and always has been. It's just that for six years that act was NO, and now it's a passive yes, plus a very active set of bills dismantling much of the liberal state that are being busily written at this very moment. It's not an imperial presidency, it's cooperation between the branches.

[* By which of course I mean the Republicans who control Congress.]
posted by chortly at 8:30 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]




*yawns* that's good to hear, threeturtles, cause my partner got real pissed tonight and went "he thinks he can fire her on a moment's notice? Fuck that guy!" and the upshot is that it's the two of us and a very sulky small dog going downtown now with a couple of candles, a portable speaker, and a carefully curated list of songs to sing in protest of this latest and shittiest action.

I imagine it will just be us, but I threw it on a couple of networks anyway before we left. Who knows?
posted by sciatrix at 8:31 PM on January 30, 2017




Here's something people outside the US can do:

Copy & pasting from a friend:
'A way to take action on Twitter: The account @Trump_Regrets re-tweets those who voted for Trump but are now displeased/disillusioned. I took the first ten or so Tweets I saw on the account and replied with variations of:
"Call your representative, esp. if they're Republican. Let them know your thoughts! Make them hear you http://www.whoismyrepresentative.com/ "
One regretter responded "this sounds like it might be helpful. Can you let us know how you get on with your representative?" I went on to say how our representatives work for us, and we should be voicing our complaints to them.
I have no clue if this person will follow-through, but this seems like a promising way to encourage those who voted for Trump, but are now unhappy with him, to speak up.
If you decide to do this, note that you could be opening yourself up to a nasty reply, so just be ready for that. I recommend refraining from condemnation or condescension, because that will only shut them off. I also don't think it's the time or place to try to convince them of every liberal gripe. But I think a message can be sent to representatives if we can encourage Trump voters to call in about their individual complaints.'

Also, if you want to up your safety while doing this, here is a link from the previous thread: Twitter Activist Security
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 8:32 PM on January 30, 2017 [16 favorites]


Someone sent The Daily Show the inauguration cake. It's beautiful. #trumpcake on Twitter will have them decide what to do with it.
posted by Torosaurus at 8:32 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


The torture for me is not knowing when the chaos is due to stunning incompetence, and when the chaos is deliberate misdirection. Whichever the case, I don't think it does us any good to use demeaning nicknames to describe him or his monstrous entourage. We are at risk of losing our country, and I don't want to be distracted from that.
posted by DeWalt_Russ at 8:33 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


They seem incapable of believing that huge numbers of people would oppose them without being paid to do so.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 8:34 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


Did that asshole just say "It's sad that our politics have become so politicized"?

It's sad that our tautologies have become so tautological.
posted by donatella at 8:34 PM on January 30, 2017 [17 favorites]


The reason the presidency is currently powerful is that Congress* agrees with the president. Mealy-mouthed statements notwithstanding, there are tons of things that Congress could do to restrain and redirect the president, including passing all sorts of laws or reiterating the meaning of existing ones. But it actively chooses not to.

Trump hasn't done anything yet remotely outside of mainstream Republican thought. And to the extent he might be a Russia puppet, they're perfectly fine with that in exchange for tax cuts.

We're not close to impeachment here, this is still only the warm up act. If we make it to March, the real shock and awe will be the FY 2018 budget. Just get ready for zeroing out all science funding and everything that looks remotely liberal, because that's the baseline.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:35 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


Too much to weed through in this thread and I'm on my damn phone, so I apologize if it's already been linked, but here's a spreadsheet of senators'/AGs'/governors' stances on the ban. If nothing else, a little order amidst the chaos.
posted by materialgirl at 8:35 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


Judge Eckhardt of Texas wears her pussy hat to court.
posted by emjaybee at 8:36 PM on January 30, 2017 [35 favorites]


More on Eckhardt and whether the hat was ok.
posted by emjaybee at 8:37 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


so do conservatives just come right out with the "SOROS = JEW" thing these days, or is it still confined to subtext?
posted by indubitable at 8:37 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]




The immigration ban is a headfake and we're falling for it

I agree that it's testing and also agree that they could be playing the 'ask for more then you want game'. That's a common political tactic. Used it myself many times in political arenas with lots of success.

That article is wrong about the NSC change and state department slipping throug. Maybe they wanted that to happen and this EO be a distraction but it didn't work. The NSC change has been all over the place, news, articles, blogs, discussion boards and social media. People still noticed and are talking about it.
posted by Jalliah at 8:40 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


Breaking: obscure law requires Sen confirmation for WH aide like Bannon to serve on NSC. 50 U.S. Code § 3021

See, if we had a congress interested in checks and balances, this would be useful. Since we don't, if someone like the ACLU sues, they'll just change the law to allow Bannon on.

That's the difference between a functioning legislature interested in governing for the good of the nation, and the Republican party interested only in looting and power.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:42 PM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


Another new rule passed by the House that makes representatives' expenses private and non-discoverable: cite. Jesus, these guys aren't even pretending to be ethical anymore.
posted by suelac at 8:43 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


That's the case for reconciliation instructions, which are passed at the outset of the new Congress and can't be changed midstream. Not the filibuster, which at its core is simply a rule of Senate order. It can be changed at any time.

This is my vague recollection, so take it with a grain of salt:

Basically the 'nuclear option' relies on the fact that if a parliamentary action is questioned by a member, they can appeal to the chair for a ruling. The chair's ruling can then be further appealed to the whole body on a 50% + 1 basis.

So even though the rule as it currently stands might say that 60 votes are needed to pass legislation / confirmations of a particular sort, the rule can always be challenged and that challenge is subject to a regular majority vote.

The Dems did this exact thing to take away the filibuster for all nominations except for the SC, so basically there is no difference procedurally between what they did and what the Republicans could do.

(Now, if they had done what certain people were begging them to do and kill the filibuster entirely at the beginning of the Obama presidency, I think we'd be looking at a much different nation right now. Buuuuuut-- water under the bridge, hindsight is 20/20, can't teach an old dog new tricks, no use crying over spilt milk, the grass is always greener on the other side.)
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:43 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Everyone: email Feinstein's staff tonight if you want your thoughts conveyed on the Senate floor tomorrow. As here. Not just Californians!

They want 2-4 sentences and it's amazing how easily you can start with why you marched and still convey a ton of detailed anger about Sessions and Bannon, and fit in a dire warning about the groundswell of people watching Congress and connecting across political lines and getting engaged in the political process in opposition to everyone who enables this administration, with your good friend the em dash.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:43 PM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


rocket: The immigration ban is a headfake and we're falling for it

I really fucking wish that people would abandon the idea of all this shit being distractions for other shit instead of Bannon & co just trying to do as much evil as possible at once. They're not playing chess, they're evil motherfuckers running around with glee now that they finally have power.

It also continues to do the thing I'm really hating seeing more and more where things like this are somehow still being treated as theoreticals, as if nobody's currently being hurt and responding in any way to it is playing into their hands and letting them escalate to what they REALLY want.

There's no escalation. There's nothing more to escalate to.
posted by flatluigi at 8:44 PM on January 30, 2017 [133 favorites]


Doing my part to voice how upset I am about Scott Pruitt and other nominees: it was really eye-opening to see that Dianne Feinstein (CA) had straight-up confirmed every nominee so far, and Kamala Harris confirmed Nikki Haley. I tried calling Feinstein and Kamala Harris' offices today, but got "voicemail box full" messages. So I faxed them my letters instead, and FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE, walked down to Feinstein's office and submitted my letter to the rep there. A nice young man in a suit took my letter, asked me what my concerns were, and noted them down on a clipboard.

I agree the immigration ban is a head-fake, and what really matters are these confirmations, Bannon's evil backdoor non-written deals, and the Supreme Court nominees. We need the Democrats to stand up to this and it's up to us to hold all accountable.
posted by hampanda at 8:44 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


hampanda, the immigration ban absolutely and 100% really matters.
posted by flatluigi at 8:46 PM on January 30, 2017 [49 favorites]


Breaking: obscure law requires Sen confirmation for WH aide like Bannon to serve on NSC. 50 U.S. Code § 3021

Norm Ornstein actually tweeted that the other day, but it was kind of offhand.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:47 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


This is my vague recollection, so take it with a grain of salt:

That's basically it. Calling the constitutional question, it's parliamentarian mumbojumbo that comes down to: the filibuster isn't in the constitution, so it's continued existence as a Senate rule is subject ultimately only to 50+1.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:47 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


There's no escalation. There's nothing more to escalate to.

Not quite true. There's still an escalation in the sense that there are perhaps still loyal patriots in the government that Bannon's inquisition has not yet rooted out. But, still, the way to prevent that is to react now and get Trump and Bannon the fuck out of the White House ASAP, before their purge progresses any further.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:53 PM on January 30, 2017


Leaked video of Bannon and Trump.
posted by dhens at 8:53 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


Breaking: obscure law requires Sen confirmation for WH aide like Bannon to serve on NSC. 50 U.S. Code § 3021

Do read the replies on that tweet, it appears to be subject to more debate.
posted by nightrecordings at 8:54 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Well! Obama’s Protections for L.G.B.T. Workers Will Remain Under Trump.

While I am super glad that this stays for now, 1) I'm reminded of the comment upthread about Trump possibly doing the typical abuser thing of trying to throw out minimal nice moves to throw victims off guard, 2) if Trump knew politics he'd have never floated this when he's slashing open GOP rifts and the same guys who hate his affirmation of support for the LGBT community love Pence, 3) if this wasn't some shitty short con to get people worried before playing the benevolent, merciful ruler, and they did just float a trial balloon only to have it popped, the thought of more activist pressure is getting to him - keep it up!
posted by jason_steakums at 8:58 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


So let me tell y'all a little story. Tonight there was a Muslim Solidarity rally on the campus of Texas A&M.... So it turns out this was an event planned not by any group or organization but by one student.... She expected maybe 30 people and made a FB event. Then local activists got a hold of it and promoted it all over, made press releases, got the word out. Estimates of turnout are at least 500.

This is exactly how the Sacramento Airport protest happened yesterday, and that one person was me. I looked on social media for information on any planned airport protests in Sacramento and all I found were questions about whether anyone was planning an airport protest in Sacramento. I sort of reverse-trolled and reverse-engineered that situation and began responding to people's questions with "Yes. Noon. Terminal B." They believed me, and it spread.

Here is what I learned:

People want to show up. They're motivated to show up. But they still feel like they need to be told, or asked, to show up. People here were asking whether any groups were organizing a protest. And I'm like, people, YOU ARE THE PEOPLE! You don't need a group to organize your protest!

But you can't say that, because in doing so you're telling THEM to organize. Most people don't want to be organizers -- they want to be protesters. They just want to show up.

I learned on Sunday that you can make people -- strangers -- show up by telling them to. Act like the authoritative, motivated organizer and people will do what you tell them to do.

I'm pretty much the most introverted person you'll ever find, but I totally anonymously organized a protest of 500-700 motivated people just by telling 10-12 strangers something they wanted to hear, and encouraging them to spread the word. Then I went to the protest and pretended not to know anything and happily regressed to being the introvert I am.

We all have power. Mine is tricking people into thinking a protest has been organized, when all that really needs to happen is that they show up to protest, organization or no.

Find your power. You might end up realizing that it falls within your comfort zone.
posted by mudpuppie at 8:59 PM on January 30, 2017 [299 favorites]


There's no escalation. There's nothing more to escalate to.

The purge has only been of political appointees. There's around 7000 appointed positions, some 700 requiring confirmation, and 2 million career federal employees with greater protections from arbitrary dismissals (if lesser authority and freedom to push back on policy). It's a long way from over, and their war on the career staff that makes up most of the federal government is only just beginning.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:59 PM on January 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


The scuttlebutt that I saw was not so much that he's keeping the LGBT protections in place as he didn't issue an EO about it, which apparently exists or existed.
posted by rhizome at 9:00 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


I learned on Sunday that you can make people -- strangers -- show up by telling them to. Act like the authoritative, motivated organizer and people will do what you tell them to do.

Interesting, it's the same effect as that advice when you are at the scene of an accident or injury - you don't say "someone call 911!" you point to someone and say "You! Call 911!"
posted by jason_steakums at 9:01 PM on January 30, 2017 [24 favorites]


-- Were you not paying attention for the last year? Seriously.
posted by futz at 7:13 PM on January 30 [+] [!]


-- I said MILD hope but thanks for the free snark. I do read the news.
posted by lagomorphius at 10:15 PM on January 30
[3 favorites +] [!]


Hi lagomorphius, I am terribly sorry for my snarky knee-JERK comment. It was uncalled for and I want to apologise.
posted by futz at 9:03 PM on January 30, 2017 [17 favorites]


>oh, Mattis is incensed, is he? Resign like a man with dignity, then.

>What, so Trump can put in someone who can nuke the planet? No thank you. He has a clear moral and ethical duty not to betray his uniform and his oaths.


Oh, Mattis gave up his ethics and oath when he dutifully stood next to Trump with a stupid grin on his face as Trump announced his unconstitutional ban on immigration.

Who stood up for the constitution?

Sally Yates -- a powerful woman of courage. Mattis -- a cowardly lickspittle.
posted by JackFlash at 9:04 PM on January 30, 2017 [34 favorites]


People want to show up. They're motivated to show up. But they still feel like they need to be told, or asked, to show up. People here were asking whether any groups were organizing a protest. And I'm like, people, YOU ARE THE PEOPLE! You don't need a group to organize your protest!

Well sure, but that's just not the way it works. Someone usually has to light a match, there just isn't that kind of "village plaza" kind of second nature in society anymore, aside from the internet. You provided the bridge, go you! And thanks!

And from what I understand about activist organizing, it's good that it only took like one match to light the fire.
posted by rhizome at 9:04 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Photo #1 here.
posted by NorthernLite at 9:05 PM on January 30, 2017 [43 favorites]


Photo #1 here.

Thank you. I needed that.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:07 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


T.D. Strange: You're misunderstanding me, I'm saying there's very little for them and the Nazis following/collaborating with them to "escalate" to since they're already doing their fucking best at pushing out as much evil as they can.

People are spreading discourse that nobody should get angry or resist in response to them (and certainly not PUNCHING them or anything like that!) because, obviously, that'd just make them act worse in retaliation!

But there's no "worse." The speed at which all this evil is being vomited out into the world and the absolute lack of any effort to hide what they're doing is proof of that. There's absolutely room for more bad things to happen right now, but there's zero indication that they aren't going to try to check off every box on that list before they stop -- whether it's through resistance or through the simple fact of them running out of things to do. You can't act worse than they already are.
posted by flatluigi at 9:07 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


Hot takes on Medium from tech dudes can really wait their turn, even though they're dished out (with that stylesheet intimating authority) like a hot take canteen.
posted by holgate at 9:08 PM on January 30, 2017 [29 favorites]


NorthernLite, thank you. I wouldn't have seen that photo if it weren't for you and it is powerful and positive.
posted by samthemander at 9:08 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Is there any evidence that Trump has ever been in nice guy mode during his entire public life?

Any time he wants something from someone, and can't get it by bribery, intimidation or deception.

He was in this mode with his supporters pretty much the entire campaign. Watch some of his campaign speeches.
posted by Coventry at 9:11 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Time and time again things that impact marginalized groups are minimized, subordinated, treated as distractions to whatever REAL MAJOR CONCERN or TRUE NARRATIVE that those "Here's a TED Talk Thought Experiment" white liberals want to focus on.

Hear, hear. This is not a hypothetical or a game of Risk or a diversion. The Muslim Ban will destroy many, many actual people's lives; it will get them killed. It makes the world more dangerous for everyone and may have profound geopolitical impact. It has already caused a ton of suffering. The people who died in Quebec due in no small part to Trump's campaign of hate aren't trivial.

Can even more enormous fucked-up things happen? Of course. But let's not minimize this one.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:12 PM on January 30, 2017 [30 favorites]



Interesting, it's the same effect as that advice when you are at the scene of an accident or injury - you don't say "someone call 911!" you point to someone and say "You! Call 911!"


Also, when your at buffet dinner and the host says come and get it and everyone sits there waiting for someone else to start it. And then as soon as one person says 'okay I'll go' and then there is a mad rush behind them.
I am now always that person and the weird thing is people thank me for it. "Oh thank god, someone else took the lead'
posted by Jalliah at 9:14 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Massachusetts AG Maura Healey, everybody:

@maura_healey - I don't wake up every day looking for a way to sue Donald Trump. But we are 10 days in and I've filed three cases already.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:14 PM on January 30, 2017 [71 favorites]




The Muslim Ban will destroy many, many actual people's lives

Just saw a share on facebook - a friend of a friend was a volunteer conselor at America's Camp, the free summer camp for kids who lost a parent on 9/11. She's not even American, she's a dual Canadian-Iranian citizen, now in med school in Canada, and engaged to a guy living in the US at a different med school. Can they still see each other now? Who knows? No real clarity even 72 hours later.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:16 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


Not a Jacobin fan, but, hey, one writer agrees with my Bannon hypothesis. Why does Trump tolerate Bannon's presence? What is Bannon supposed to bring to the table? And what has he delivered so far?
posted by My Dad at 9:19 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


"Another new rule passed by the House that makes representatives' expenses private and non-discoverable: cite. "

I knew before I clicked that we could thank Aaron Schock!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:20 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


Sally Yates' confirmation hearing.

Whoa. That's amazing. A question directly on point and directed by the nominee for her replacement.

Hypocrisy meter just went full tilt.
posted by JackFlash at 9:21 PM on January 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


What is Bannon supposed to bring to the table? And what has he delivered so far?

Imagination.
posted by rhizome at 9:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'd really, really, really like it if privileged white liberals ... dismiss things that ... affect people who aren't privileged white liberals

It's not being called a headfake because it has no effects on innocent people. It's being called a headfake because it costs Trump nothing and will very likely get overturned, gaining him nothing.

Keep your eye on the ball. Where "the ball" is freeing up hundreds of billions of dollars in Russian oil to be sold to US consumers.
posted by miyabo at 9:23 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


The military fuck up That's largely been unconnected upon is going to be the stuff of terrorist propaganda for decades.
posted by Artw at 9:24 PM on January 30, 2017 [21 favorites]


One of the few sources of comfort at the moment is seeing Bannon get more and more attention than you-know-who, more TV mentions, a higher profile and thinking about how corrosive that must be to the thoughts of a narcissist, how much it must rankle. So that maybe you start feeling a little less committed to your right-hand man, a little more insecure about his motivation for wanting to be in the inner circle. (Hey, I can dream!)
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:25 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm with you, FelliniBlank.

I think using "President Bannon" more and more, like today's political cartoon also kind of did, is something everyone should keep doing. Maybe Trump's ego will push Bannon off a cliff before any of Bannon's actions ever will.
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:28 PM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


it costs Trump nothing

It sure as hell looks like it's costing him. His own erstwhile allies are ranging from wavering to outright opposition. He's getting heavy media scrutiny and looking pretty terrible about now. He's got his opposition fired up and motivated.

Sure, none of this matters if he's ready to enact a coup right now, but if he's not, then he's bleeding support he can't afford as long as much of the mechanism of government is still loyal to the way power is supposed to be divided among the branches.
posted by jackbishop at 9:28 PM on January 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


One of the few sources of comfort at the moment is seeing Bannon get more and more attention than you-know-who, more TV mentions, a higher profile and thinking about how corrosive that must be to the thoughts of a narcissist, how much it must rankle. So that maybe you start feeling a little less committed to your right-hand man, a little more insecure about his motivation for wanting to be in the inner circle. (Hey, I can dream!)

My dream is that 'President Bannon' will be in one of skits when Alec Baldwin does SNL on the 11th because we know Donald is going to be watching that one.
posted by Jalliah at 9:29 PM on January 30, 2017 [29 favorites]


Where "the ball" is freeing up hundreds of billions of dollars in Russian oil to be sold to US consumers.

There's a lot of balls in the air. Russian payoffs, the pro quo for winning him the election. Voting rights crackdown to ensure the long promised Republican permanent majority. The Kushner Kleptocracy ever present in the background siphoning away public resources. The general Republican goals of Ryan/Pence/Priebus to end the welfare state and end all social progress.

There'll also be shock and distraction tactics. The immigration EO may be one. But resistance needs a focus too, and real people's hurt can also become the face of opposition to everything else. No one thing is "the" thing that mobilizes people against this, it's all of it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:31 PM on January 30, 2017 [23 favorites]


Relevant Twitter thread from comedian/commentator Felonious Munk:
Replacing officials who refuse to follow unlawful orders is another step towards blatant, outward, fully-realized fascism. It's not hidden — Rasclat Al Ghul (@Felonious_munk) January 31, 2017

It's not coming. It's here. You're waiting for camps, registries, killings, etc. those are the RESULTS of fascism. Fascism comes first.

By the time we get to that point, the fascism is so engrained in the society it will take a revolution to stop it.
posted by nicebookrack at 9:32 PM on January 30, 2017 [75 favorites]



Hi lagomorphius, I am terribly sorry for my snarky knee-JERK comment. It was uncalled for and I want to apologise.

Thanks. We're all on the edge right now.
posted by lagomorphius at 9:33 PM on January 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


...as long as much of the mechanism of government is still loyal to the way power is supposed to be divided among the branches.

So, like, another two-three days?
posted by neroli at 9:35 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


My dream is that 'President Bannon' will be in one of skits when Alec Baldwin does SNL on the 11th because we know Donald is going to be watching that one.

I prefer to think of him as "Reich Chancellor Bannon," but sure, whatever most rankles Viewer One.
posted by contraption at 9:35 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


The way the Trump presidency is beginning it is safe to say it will end in calamity. It is almost a certainty. Even Republicans know this!
--@JohnWDean

That's John "one of our nation's foremost living experts in Presidential calamities" Dean talking here.
posted by zachlipton at 9:37 PM on January 30, 2017 [31 favorites]


Well sure, but that's just not the way it works. Someone usually has to light a match, there just isn't that kind of "village plaza" kind of second nature in society anymore, aside from the internet. You provided the bridge, go you! And thanks!

And from what I understand about activist organizing, it's good that it only took like one match to light the fire.


I hear you.

I won't offend activists now by calling myself one, because I burned out on activism, in progressive stages, throughout the 1990s and 2000s. I am well aware of the Keystone Kopness and circular firing squads that have accompanied lefty/democrat activism since I came of voting age. It completely exhausted me to the point of apathy, and I'd say that I've not been politically "active" in any real sense of the word(s) for 10 years or so. But, this burned out person is fired up.

Look I've done organizing for real, and I would never go back to it by choice, but one thing has changed since I did it before: The prevalence of internet, broadly -- how online our lives are -- and social media, specifically.

Organizing used to literally require going door to door. In that context, one match wouldn't do it.

Now, "organizing" can be accomplished in a few strategic tweets. Engage someone who's motivated enough and who has a significant number of engaged followers, and one match can absolutely light the fire.

And I am dangerously close to a Billy Joel earworm here, so I'm going to back away slowly.
posted by mudpuppie at 9:38 PM on January 30, 2017 [15 favorites]


Some of the articles floating around about the possibility of a Hardiman pick for the court are interesting, from the unnamed source here saying Trump thinks he might be the most conservative judge who can be voted in right now, to this pundit from a law enforcement background hyping up his cop-friendly bonafides which would definitely please Trump. And I bet the strongest reason Trump's considering him is the nepotism angle that Trump's sister is pushing for Hardiman. According to 538 Hardiman's pretty centrist, so I can see the whole "he's probably the only one who can get through" thing just being Trump's excuse for picking family over party since the GOP would be wanting someone like Gorsuch, because he fucking knows he could get a further right judge through.

Where it gets tricky is that if Hardiman actually is pretty centrist like 538 says it would incentivize the Dems to back off of a filibuster threat which would royally piss off the Dem base right now after they doubled down on it. The best way forward in that case is to probably filibuster anyways and act all shocked that the Republicans would pick the nuclear option and oh, no, this guy is the last thing we want, ohhh nooo we are defeeated... and then Scalia gets replaced with the lesser of a few evils that are on the table.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:42 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


I mean, except then we have no filibuster for the next Supreme Court nominee if there's another one.
posted by zachlipton at 9:45 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


I mean, except then we have no filibuster for the next Supreme Court nominee if there's another one.

They'd get rid of the filibuster immediately at the next one, then.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:46 PM on January 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


They will nuke the filibuster the minute it looks like a threat. I'd rather Dems take that sad reality and turn it into a statement of strength.
posted by emjaybee at 9:50 PM on January 30, 2017 [32 favorites]


There's no filibuster now. It's dead now or later, unless the country survives 4 years of Trump and Democratic normalcy magically returns in 2020 with no more Court openings.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:51 PM on January 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


I want to second qcubed here, with vehemence: don't you fucking dare pull this smarter-than-thou "look out, sheeple, the real story is over here" bullshit when it's registry and detainment time for innocent Muslim Americans like me. Because it's just an excuse for you to sit at your computer and nod your head feeling smart, maybe tweeting some theories, while your neighbors and community members are being dragged off to the figurative or probably literal cattle cars.
posted by yasaman at 9:57 PM on January 30, 2017 [180 favorites]


I won't have a chance to listen to the new Pod Save America ep until tomorrow, but I'm already in love with the episode title - "Protest is the new brunch."

If anyone thinks liberals are going to lose their appetite for brunch, think again. Every weekend, hungover and going back for seconds and thirds.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:01 PM on January 30, 2017 [17 favorites]


Ha, Maddow has the Sessions/Yates tape.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:01 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


*yawns* Then, of course, the danger comes when you learn how to organize people on that level, you get addicted to the awe inspiring power and... ah, humility of achieving even temporary unity among that many people, and you get so sucked into building more and more unity and cohesion and momentum that you burn yourself out entirely as you forget to balance paid work and self care with those little proud hits of I did that and community obligation.

...not that I would know from experience or anything. But that kind of spreading motivation, getting used to dropping the little spark when critical masses of people clearly want to be involved with doing something, gently delegating roles and making people feel appreciated and valued for their contributions even as they second guess themselves, because it takes a while for folks to realize that something imperfect is infinitely better than nothing... It's all small stuff, but it can be hellishly hard emotional labor all its own, and I think one thing the Internet does is make it all move so much faster. Unless I'm just being rosy eyed about activism before my day, anyway.

Ugh, I don't know. That kind of gentle leadership is so subtle, but it works so well if you can just sustain it, and on the gripping hand I have no idea how to translate that labor into something that keeps my family fed and my household clean and my mortgage paid. Especially when all that delicate nudging to start things and encourage people to delegate some of emotional labor by loving each other works best when it's subtle--I am actually second guessing laying out my thought processes here because it feels rather sociopathic of me to have them--and therefore lends itself to being overlooked and devalued.

Aw, hell, I'm worried about burnout again. And I can't decide if I want to try to turn the smoldering embers of we can do better if we try into a steam engine or a hearth fire.
posted by sciatrix at 10:04 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


Is it just me, or has today been like 97 hours long?

As a variation on
http://projects.metafilter.com/5139/One-hour-a-week-for-political-change
maybe some of us need to go on one hour a day for political change.

I wrote my senators today! There were protests outside the US embassy in Ottawa today and I should be there for if there's some tomorrow.
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:06 PM on January 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


I also want to nth qcubed's point about calling the Muslim Ban a "headfake" being a really shitty act of so-called solidarity.

I'd also like to bring our attention back to this piece from Harper's which was linked in one of the previous political threads.
"One of ACT UP’s most important principles was simultaneity of action. ACT UP never worked by consensus, never demanded the full agreement of all its members for any individual action to go forward. If you wanted to get arrested doing needle exchange as a way of bringing attention to the necessity of clean-needle programs, you could do that. If someone else wanted to interrupt mass at St. Patrick’s Cathedral in order to protest the Catholic Church’s campaign to keep condoms out of public schools, she could do that. As long as the gestures were concrete, members didn’t try to stop one another from addressing the crisis however they felt was right."
we are a movement of millions. We can diversify our energies and our efforts. Some of us maintain a priority on stopping the confirmation of Betsy DeVos and working with our allies in education to rally opposition to her nomination. Some of us really care about Russian oil. A lot of us really care about our immigrant colleagues. They're all valid and, collectively, we have enough imagination to be worried about all of them and to coordinate and to focus in our own individual ways.
posted by bl1nk at 10:08 PM on January 30, 2017 [83 favorites]


And on a slightly less navel gazing and self indulgent point, let me add my own support to q cubed and yasaman. Keeping my immigrant friends and colleagues and family safe, as safe as I can? That is a fucking prize to fight for. Besides, it's pretty clear that these fuckers are throwing everything they can think of at us in the hopes of tiring us out, because they are incompetent at people. Especially our kind of people.

If I see anyone else argue that standing up for people like the woman who listened to me cry about my hard work and my failed experiments at least once a week for four years, and somehow still managed to find ways to buoy my spirits--if I see anyone else argue that standing up for her is a headfake? I swear I will rip a strip out of their hide. It's only dumb luck she wasn't affected; she was even going to travel back to Iran briefly to visit family while she transitioned to her new job, but moving to her new city took longer than anticipated.

This is a real cost to human lives. It is not a fucking drill. And it is not something we can or should be distracted from.
posted by sciatrix at 10:10 PM on January 30, 2017 [37 favorites]


The Nazis stole a bunch of money, too, but they are remembered for what they did to the people. The money stuff is important and imo is likely his main motivation, but the human toll is what really matters when all is said and done.
posted by gatorae at 10:14 PM on January 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


Honestly, I'm getting pretty tired with the "you're all sheeple! Sheeple!" voices right now, who think the most important thing to do when we're trying to fight fascism is to call us idiots for either liking something or opposing something. Who try to make conspiracy theories out of Russian oil, or Mattis smiling at his shitty Chinese pen given to him by Trump, or what have you. Let people organize, let everyone fight in their own way. Fight the goddamn fascists, not people's hope and good feelings about a success.
posted by corb at 10:15 PM on January 30, 2017 [37 favorites]




As fun as the sitting on Bannon's lap cartoon is I still prefer this one.
posted by ckape at 10:17 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


While I agree that the "headfake" article is casually racist and its prescriptions are harmful and authoritarian, I did learn from it first that Trump purged the State Department over the weekend, so it's true I was distracted by the ban EO to that extent. I also agree with these parts:
It is a much bigger deal that the DHS felt they could ignore a federal court than than Trump signed an EO blocking green card holders in the first place. It is a much bigger deal that Trump removed a permanent military presence from the NSC than that he issued a temporary stay on immigration. The immigration ban may be more viscerally upsetting, but the other moves are potentially far more dangerous.
...but that doesn't change the fact that, as bl1nk points out, as a mob, we have attention to spare.

Also, I think the "headfake" author underestimates what a big deal it is that so many people were activated to come out and protest. "Protests alone" might not effect much visible change, but simply bringing people together around a common cause is huge.
posted by Coventry at 10:20 PM on January 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Two hours ago, when I posted this, Kai Penn had raised about $718K in his campaign and was going for 3/4 of a million.

it's kal. with an L. it's really not a difficult or confusingly foreign name to spell.
posted by poffin boffin at 10:22 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]




Y'all, MetaFilter is going to be the last living uninterrupted internet community epistolary link between the 9/11 attacks and the Trump dictatorship, or the Trump impeachment, whichever.

Political science students in foreign universities are going to study us, is what I'm saying.
posted by nicebookrack at 10:27 PM on January 30, 2017 [69 favorites]


Political science students in foreign universities are going to study us, is what I'm saying.

Well then I'd better say something profound: despite having seen him many times before, tonight is the first time I noticed that Jeff Sessions has a whole smirky Dana Carvey Church Lady thing going on.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:31 PM on January 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


"Pancakes, Beanplating, and Vibrating Brooms - The Early 21st Century Was A Land Of Contrasts." Dissertation
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:31 PM on January 30, 2017 [35 favorites]


Section I: The Naming of the Steves
posted by downtohisturtles at 10:34 PM on January 30, 2017 [17 favorites]


I went to see my psychiatrist today.

Me: I can't tell if it's because I'm super crazy right now, but this feels way worse to me than post 9/11.

Him: OH NO IT IS WAAAY WORSE!
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 10:35 PM on January 30, 2017 [100 favorites]


An Investigation of How These People Got Their Cats Wedged Into My Dissertation and Why.
posted by jaduncan at 10:36 PM on January 30, 2017 [20 favorites]


"He'll Never Win the Primary": Donald Trump and the Underestimation of Fascism
posted by nicebookrack at 10:36 PM on January 30, 2017 [26 favorites]


I sincerely hope there are idiotic memos about which opposition measure are headfakes and which are the real thing circulating around the White House right now.
posted by chrchr at 10:38 PM on January 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


The political scientists studying this thread will all be Tehhund.
posted by zachlipton at 10:38 PM on January 30, 2017 [41 favorites]


And they will all be eating Dippin' Dots.
posted by mochapickle at 10:39 PM on January 30, 2017 [15 favorites]


I really don't know what to make of the many "the real story is over here" pieces that keep refusing to die. These articles infuriate me because they're all real stories, they're all big daels. Some stories are bigger than others, and some represent different levels of urgency, but they're all real in that they're likely to fuck up a lot of people's lives and/or subvert democracy in some dangerous way. As you know, I post a lot of links here, links about various news stories. And the common theme among most of them is that they fall into one of two categories: somebody said something ridiculously stupid, and/or something is happening that will hurt people and weaken important institutions that we all depend on. And there's a lot of stories in the second category to post because such things keep happening frequently.

The immigration/refugee executive order is, simply, morally wrong. There are a lot of other reasons why it's bad policy, badly rolled out, etc..., but at it's core, it's just wrong. It's not a game and it's not part of some 12-dimensional-chess plan to distract us from something else. It's a thing that's happened, and it's wrong. And we're going to fight it, whether or not some guy thinks it's a "headfake." Because it's wrong.
posted by zachlipton at 10:40 PM on January 30, 2017 [44 favorites]


"but that doesn't change the fact that, as bl1nk points out, as a mob, we have attention to spare."

Not only can we care about more than one thing at a time, but, as they say, Al Capone was brought down on tax evasion. Aaron Schock got 24 felony charges because his office decor was so outre it prompted reporters to start sniffing and they uncovered all kinds of malfeasance. If immigration shenanigans is what gets people emotional and opposing Trump, and telling their Congresscritters that, HOORAY FOR THAT, it's not like anyone's going to be all "Oh, Congress got Trump to back down on his Muslim ban, NOW I TRUST THAT NICE YOUNG MAN!"

Yeah, our Congresscritters have to be at least a little strategic in what they oppose and how they spend their political capital in opposing Trump (I can swallow Dems voting for Mattis because they think he's a) within the normal bounds of conservative terrible and b) unlikely to start a nuclear war), but us opposing ALL THE THINGS and FIGHTING MORE THAN ONE THING AT A TIME is part of where that capital comes from and either makes them responsive or makes them run scared.

"I went to see my psychiatrist today.
Me: I can't tell if it's because I'm super crazy right now, but this feels way worse to me than post 9/11.
Him: OH NO IT IS WAAAY WORSE!"


Yeah my shrink and I cried together.

posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:42 PM on January 30, 2017 [41 favorites]


I honestly can't tell if I'm turning into a crazy person, or if I'm just getting mentally prepared to join le resistance, or something. I feel a little bit like I'm drowning.

So, I've had longstanding problems with anxiety, and my Testosterone made it worse. My docs and I have been working on finding a balance, and we thought found one. But then Trump actually became the fucking President.

I saw both my Endo and my Psychiatrist, and asked them. "Is my anxiety spiraling out of control, or is everything really horrid right now?"
Both of them answered: "No, things are really bad, This isn't just you. But by you being conscious of this, you can work to keep how you react to these events under control."

That was last Thursday, Jan 26th.
posted by spinifex23 at 10:42 PM on January 30, 2017 [28 favorites]


Reminder that the UK is with you: thousands protest.

A friend of mine was at the Cardiff protest, which featured protestors ranging from
hardened left-leaning activists to people who had never been on a demonstration before...Jim Gray, a student, said he had been shopping for trainers nearby when he saw someone with an anti-Trump placard. “I followed them and here I am. It suddenly made sense to me. I’d been worrying about the travel ban and this seems a way of making my views known. I’ve never done anything like this before.”
Also a woman with a sign "impolite grandmothers say dump on Trump".
posted by Pink Frost at 10:42 PM on January 30, 2017 [33 favorites]




Sally Yates predicted her choice today during her confirmation hearing.

@yottapoint

Amazing. Sally Yates at her confirmation hearing answering her job-ending Q. Look who's asking. Via @charles_gaba

posted by Coventry at 10:47 PM on January 30, 2017 [23 favorites]


ACLU and others are calling for people to show up to the Sessions hearing in DC tomorrow.
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:53 PM on January 30, 2017 [12 favorites]


Omigod. That Sessions/Yates video. Omg.

Anyone know if he voted to confirm her in the end?
posted by saturday_morning at 10:53 PM on January 30, 2017


Anyway someone could get that Yates/Sessions video on the Times Square Jumbotron running 24/7?
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 10:55 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Warren Leight, who was the showrunner of SVU among other things, described the Sessions/Yates video as: "This is the most heavy-handed foreshadowing I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot."

I mean, the guy was in charge of a show where nothing ever happened without being telegraphed in advance and he thinks this is too much, so I'm pretty sure 2017's writers should take the note.
posted by zachlipton at 11:00 PM on January 30, 2017 [47 favorites]


Worth glancing at I think (npd relationship survivor): Narcissists, Narcissistic Supply and Sources of Supply:
Question: Could negative input serve as Narcissistic Supply (NS)?

Answer: Yes, it can. NS includes all forms of attention - both positive and negative: fame, notoriety, adulation, fear, applause, approval. Whenever the narcissist gets attention, positive or negative, whenever he is in the "limelight", it constitutes NS. If he can manipulate people or influence them – positively or negatively – it qualifies as NS.

Even quarrelling with people and confronting them constitute NS. Perhaps not the conflict itself, but the narcissist's ability to influence other people, to make them feel the way he wants, to manipulate them, to make them do something or refrain from doing it - all count as forms of narcissistic supply. Hence the phenomenon of "serial litigators".

Negative supply should be distinguished from low-grade or fake supply (collectively known as spurious narcissistic supply).

Low-grade narcissistic supply comes from sources which cannot be idealized, no matter how hard the narcissist tries and to what extent he blocks out and denies reality. The type of narcissistic supply determines whether its source can be idealized or not. For instance: compliments on his intellectual achievements doled out to a cerebral narcissist by an intellectually-challenged person would never pass muster and would never qualify as narcissistic supply.

Fake narcissistic supply is tinged with ulterior motives and hidden agendas. Sources of fake supply compliment the narcissist in order to manipulate him or some third person or in order to accomplish a goal. Endowed with cold empathy, the narcissist picks up on these true motivations and feels injured and slighted. Many narcissists test their sources of supply repeatedly: they engineer situations intended to expose the sincerity or lack thereof of the supply and the consistency and authenticity of the source’s conduct.

In turn, all the above should not be confused with static narcissistic supply.

Narcissistic supply is either static or dynamic. Dynamic supply upholds, enhances, buttresses, and abets the narcissist’s grandiose and fantastic False Self. The contents of dynamic narcissistic supply and the identity of its sources conform to the narcissist’s image of himself, his “destiny”, the evolution of his life, and his place in the Cosmos. Static supply fails to do so despite the fact that it is largely positive, reliably recurrent, and abundant. Static supply is akin to “hospital rations” or “junk food”: it maintains the narcissist for a while, but, as an exclusive diet, it results in malnutrition (deficient narcissistic supply). Static supply is repetitive, “boring” because it is predictable, and pedestrian. It does not propel the narcissist into new “highs”, nor does it reinflate him when he is down.
posted by christopherious at 11:01 PM on January 30, 2017 [16 favorites]


The Trump-sitting-on-Bannon's-lap cartoons keep getting mentions, but I want one where Trump's polishing B's stormtrooper boots.

I'd also accept a clip of Lainie Kazan saying, "Let me tell you something. Trump is the head of the country, but Bannon is the neck. And he can turn the head any way he wants."
posted by furtive_jackanapes at 11:03 PM on January 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


sciatrix: "Instead of thinking of better and better insults to sling at that slug squatting in the White House, just get used to spitting the name Trump as a slur for every foul, traitorous, short sighted, thoughtless occasion and person you can think of.

Make trump go down as the same insult as we use for quislings and Benedict Arnolds and, yes, santorum. And use it liberally enough that in ten years school children never realize that a trump was a person first before it was an insult.
"

There are like 5000 other people named Trump in the US; they'd probably really like if people didn't do this.
posted by Mitheral at 11:04 PM on January 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Bit late now, TBH.
posted by Artw at 11:08 PM on January 30, 2017 [19 favorites]


There are like 5000 other people named Trump in the US; they'd probably really like if people didn't do this.

There are/were people named Hitler, too, but things change.
posted by Ghidorah at 11:19 PM on January 30, 2017 [19 favorites]


And I bet a full third have been riding high at parties on that "You're Fired!" bit for the past umpteen.
posted by rhizome at 11:51 PM on January 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


I think the "headfake" thing is a way for the writer to justify his own inaction more than anything else. Protesting the Muslim ban doesn't mean we can't also challenge changes to the National Security Council. Working together on one issue makes us more aware of other issues, and any victory provides momentum toward further victories.
posted by panic at 11:51 PM on January 30, 2017 [20 favorites]


My Protest Revolution Will Be Intersectional Or It Will Be Bullshit
posted by nicebookrack at 11:57 PM on January 30, 2017 [58 favorites]


Sally Yates middle name is Quillian which is like pretty bad ass by itself.
posted by PenDevil at 11:58 PM on January 30, 2017 [19 favorites]


Please tell me there's some one out there who is smart enough to outstrategize and defeat this shit. Surely there is someone who is quietly working away at a plan, not calling attention to themselves, and waiting for just the right moment to pounce.

PLEASE??
posted by MultiFaceted at 12:10 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


There is, unfortunately, no plan. The time to "pounce" was Obama's last days, when he could've appointed Merrick Garland during the brief congressional recess. Or before that - during campaign season, when he could've nudged congress into a law that the president has to release his tax returns each year, to show the nation that he's not a crook.

Fascism can be overcome - it's happened many times - but it's almost never defeated by a white-knight hero nor a cabal of clever insurrectionists. It's defeated over time, after a lot of pain and deaths make enough of the placid populace aware that the rhetoric has shifted from "annoying political babble" to "there is NO DAMN FOOD to buy."

We have the lucky advantage that no oppressed people in history have had - instant communication; there will be no "plz ignore the lights on the horizon as we test a weather balloon" because there will be people tweeting "GUNS AND BOMBS, FOLKS; BRING BANDAGES."

But unless the Dem congress rouses itself quickly *and* manages to entice a handful of Rep senators to work with them, then until people are literally screaming, "armed thugs are stomping through the schools and gunning down students in the name of the president," we will see no systematic pushback.

Doesn't mean protests are worthless. On the contrary, they're extremely important - each one raises a few more former supporters attention, and if we can keep them up, we *will* get reactions of, "but... why aren't they calming down yet?"

Long hard painful road ahead. Look to history, to the accounts of people who've survived similar regimes. If we manage to avoid the mushroom-cloud options, we can get through this. If we're very lucky, we'll even have a 50-state nation after. But don't hold out for saviors.

We are our own saviors, here.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:25 AM on January 31, 2017 [58 favorites]


Literally everyone is smart enough to defeat this shit. Bannon is a lot of things, but clever he isn't, and Trump's head has to be empty because how else could Bannon and Sessions get their hands in there to work his mouth? We know what we have to do. It's just a matter of having the nerve, putting out (and sustaining) the effort, and not getting scared off even when the violence starts getting even worse.
posted by IAmUnaware at 12:36 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Reposting (jason_steakums, last thread) this excellent, uplifting video: All We Share.
posted by progosk at 12:37 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


What if we just promise Trump he can loot the treasury if he leaves quietly? We build him a tower filled with fake gold and let him roll around naked in it anytime he wants, and surround him with brave volunteers 24/7 ready to clap and cheer and tell him how great he made America if it looks like he's coming down off his high.
posted by Soliloquy at 12:43 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


I feel like, if Trump is ousted, we have to keep up the momentum and push for electoral college reform, by which I mean popular vote elections.

Why that VS instant run off voting?

And why not the removal of political parties? You stand by your own words and actions VS your ability to get a label.
posted by rough ashlar at 12:47 AM on January 31, 2017


The removal of parties would result in groupings and endorsements that looked very like them. Absent removal/alteration of the first amendment, you can't stop political speech and association.
posted by jaduncan at 12:52 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Kushner and Ivanka have a serious talk with Dad and threaten that they will work and running his company and name into the ground if they don't fire Bannon.

Pfft. "Protecting who we are and what we do is more important to us and so we are walking away from the 'Trump Brand'".

Walking away would seem to HELP keep the contacts in their rolodex.

(Hey Kids! There was this system of paper back before the contacts in your phone or CRM called a Rolodex. Go to the old folks home and ask about rolodexes.)
posted by rough ashlar at 12:52 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Weak and Incompetent Leaders act like Strong Leaders
Tom Pepinsky Associate Professor of Government, Cornell University

Home › Current Affairs › Weak and Incompetent Leaders act like Strong Leaders
Weak and Incompetent Leaders act like Strong Leaders

...
Let me explain how observational equivalence works with an example. President Trump may have brought Steve Bannon into the NSC because he is consolidating power and intends to sideline all regular establishment players in the formulation of American foreign policy. Or he might have brought Bannon into the NSC because he is so isolated that he needs someone who he believes he can trust, and everyone in the foreign policy establishment is dragging feet and dissembling. The former is a sign of strength. The latter is a sign of weakness. Both have the same observable implication.

Another example: the swift release of President Trump’s Executive Order on immigration without much advice or feedback from the affected bureaucracies may be evidence that the administration is completely centralizing control within the office of the president. Or it might be because the administration does not understand standard operating procedures in a presidential administration. Or it might be because they worry that they have lost the narrative, need to do something, and a gross Nazi is calling the shots. Again, only the first is a sign of strength. The latter two are signs of weakness. All three of the same observable implications, but have radically different interpretations.

...
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:00 AM on January 31, 2017 [21 favorites]


Judge Eckhardt of Texas wears her pussy hat to court.

That's ok. It'd only be an issue of 'respect' if people wore them into the Judge's courtroom.
posted by rough ashlar at 1:02 AM on January 31, 2017


I'm still hoping for a road to impeachment, but with each passing day it seems less and less realistic.

I think a big part of why the repubs in Congress are so spineless to dump Trump is because even though they would keep the presidency and have a much more productive governance, they'd also be giving the left what we want, so they'd rather cut off their face to spite their nose.

Maybe they also fear losing the deplorable end of their base, but as it is now, they're going to lose the moderates anyways (assuming there even are any more moderates on the right). Is the majority of the base really that attached to Trump that they'd prefer him over Pence? And don't tell me it's for lack of cause, because the right will make a case for impeachment over the color of someone's socks when they're fired up enough.

They've still got that dumb Tea Party mentality where they think anything the left wants is worth fighting against but by the time they get over it, Trump will have piles of kompromat on all of them. I'm sure he can tap those same staffers who helped with the EO to help spy on their bosses.
posted by p3t3 at 1:05 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


The removal of parties would result in groupings and endorsements that looked very like them. Absent removal/alteration of the first amendment, you can't stop political speech and association.

Any 'serious' attempt to tear down the ability for a party system to exist would unite the R's with the D's to toss Trump hoping that him under the bus will cause such a movement to dissipate its energy. How is the party system working to be rid of Trump - or is the party system allowing him to remain in charge?

In the threads to date the idea of 'the rules have changed' along with how the Democrats are 'useless' as a party and the Republicans are in lockstep.

Trump got in on the backs of people wanting a change. An effort to make political parties illegal by Constitutional amendment is gonna shave off a few Trump supporters via the partial removal of the swamp water surrounding big parties.
posted by rough ashlar at 1:22 AM on January 31, 2017


that's good to hear, threeturtles, cause my partner got real pissed tonight and went "he thinks he can fire her on a moment's notice? Fuck that guy!" and the upshot is that it's the two of us and a very sulky small dog going downtown now with a couple of candles, a portable speaker, and a carefully curated list of songs to sing in protest of this latest and shittiest action.

Yeah I saw your FB event (you're like the one person I can keep straight on real name vs Mefi name). I hope you were joined by others feeling similarly moved. Or just bored, whatever. It's Austin on a Monday, anythings possible.
posted by threeturtles at 1:28 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Update, it was over 1000 at A&M according to the local paper. (I couldn't find hard numbers, news coverage, or pictures when I posted earlier.)
posted by threeturtles at 1:34 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Trump-sitting-on-Bannon's-lap cartoons keep getting mentions, but I want one where Trump's polishing B's stormtrooper boots.

Even before the big boy cartoon came out I was hoping for a ventriloquist dummy and/or marionette. Cartoons or SNL - I'm not picky.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 1:34 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


A longer version of the Sessions-Yates hearing. Goddamn. Yates is straight out of central casting's "sunny, confident heroine of boundless integrity" department, and Sessions keeps pressing her with more and more pointed questions like he's had a vision of the future and wants to make Trump look as bad as possible.
posted by Rhaomi at 1:54 AM on January 31, 2017 [59 favorites]


I feel like it's August 2001 and I know something horrible is going to happen and I can't stop it. What freaks me out, I mean aside from Nazis in the furthest reaches of power, is that Trump supporters are behind his actions. And the GOP is folding. I mean this is the worst fucking period of U.S. history that I've lived in, in terms of malevolent state actors.

I'm quite worried that tensions within the U.S. are going to get hot very quickly. And why? Why are we quite possibly hurtling towards domestic and international conflict? Germany had WWI and economic catastrophe to complain about.
posted by angrycat at 2:09 AM on January 31, 2017 [11 favorites]


We are still paying for the sin of slavery.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:12 AM on January 31, 2017 [36 favorites]


For future reference, Tillerson's name should be spelled “Тилерсон”, and pronounced "tillyerson"; after all, that's how he's known to his handlers.
posted by acb at 2:13 AM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


CNN talked to a bunch of folks in a PA diner. All of them except one were completely behind Trump's ban. Coincidentally they were also all (except one) a combination of stupid and racist to various degrees. When someone is dumb enough it's hard to tell if they're saying dumb things as a fig leaf for their racism or because they are a Dunning Kruger effect in action.
posted by Justinian at 2:25 AM on January 31, 2017 [13 favorites]


We all have power. Mine is tricking people into thinking a protest has been organized, when all that really needs to happen is that they show up to protest, organization or no.

Yeah I was totally thinking about that being something I could conceivably do even from my bed with no intention (due to no ability) to show up. I've taken it on myself to join LITERALLY EVERY activist FB group for a range of maybe 300 miles in Texas around me. And I make sure they know about what each other are doing. One event is posted in one group, I go around and see if it's been posted in all the others yet. When someone is asking "Is there a protest organized in ___ town for ___ day yet?" I go find that info and post it. When someone is later all "what time did that thing at Cruz's office start?" I go find it and answer.

This is what I can do right now. I don't have money, I don't have a functioning body, but I have time and an internet connection. And the ability to keep like 15 tabs of refreshing content open and not go insane.
posted by threeturtles at 2:27 AM on January 31, 2017 [98 favorites]


CNN talked to a bunch of folks in a PA diner.

Democrats have to forget about them. 40% of the US voting population would vote for a stack of wet newspapers as long as it had 'Official GOP Nominee' scribbled on it in sharpie. Dems need to energise their own base to register to vote and to turn out to vote. It's the only way they can win.
posted by PenDevil at 2:34 AM on January 31, 2017 [35 favorites]


While I agree that 40% of the population is a completely lost cause, this was in one of those counties that went for Obama twice (though narrowly) but went to Trump solidly in 2016. Don't make think about how these people can justify that voting record right now because I have to sleep soon. Probably something about emails.

Watching these kinds of interviews is so disheartening.
posted by Justinian at 2:41 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]



Is there any evidence that Trump has ever been in nice guy mode during his entire public life?

Any time he wants something from someone, and can't get it by bribery, intimidation or deception.


Someone with narcissistic personality disorder will typically switch back and forth between anger/abuse, pitiful playing the victim, and "good behavior". How much time someone spends in the various modes depends on the individual, but they can be quite good at playing the right role in the moment to manipulate their target. They will switch modes when one isn't working or isn't getting them attention. So if their anger isn't working and people are just tuning them out, they will switch to tears and talking about how badly they have been treated in an effort to provoke sympathy.

If neither of those things works, then they will try to put on a friendly face and swear all that bad behavior is in the past. The friendly, helpful, even overly generous face is typically the one that people meet for the first time. Again how long it lasts depends on the person and the situation but usually it's not long, or only under the first "betrayal" by the target. (And a betrayal could be literally anything other than exactly what the narcissist wants. I once woke up too late on Christmas morning for my MIL's liking and that was proof we didn't care about her or love her and Christmas was RUINED.)

I think Trump probably used to be pretty good at the friendly face, or his fame and success at manipulation wouldn't exist. I think as he's gotten older and experienced cognitive decline his anger has gotten much more dominant and that is most of his time.

Also it's worth mentioning that usually a narcissist is focused only on their immediate family. They tend to have one or two victims they prioritize controlling. Trump has a LOT of different groups and individuals he is having to juggle. It's why he mostly just talks to his base, because he can't do two modes at once to two different crowds, not in public. There's an emotional cycle to a NPD person's moods but I think he's probably in a permanent anger and vengeance tailspin these days. He's always experiencing betrayal from SOMEONE. I think that his saner-seeming moments during the campaign were probably the result of someone managing him well enough to reset the anger cycle so he was back on "good behavior". But the demands of the Presidency aren't going to allow him to get those kind of breaks, most likely.

(Disclaimer, most of this is according to reading I've done, personal family experiences and talking to other family members of NPD people. I was a mental health professional and I worked with some people with these issues but I wasn't really trained for it.)
posted by threeturtles at 2:51 AM on January 31, 2017 [32 favorites]


professional mealymouth david brooks has thrown the administration under the bus in a last-ditch attempt to draw a bright line between Trumpism and the republican party and he's spitting, if not fire, zesty mexican velveeta:
In the first place, the Trump administration is not a Republican administration; it is an ethnic nationalist administration…

… Outspoken critics of Paul Ryan are being given White House jobs, and at the same time, if Reince Priebus has a pulse it is not externally evident.

if Trump’s ideology were not noxious, his incompetence is a threat to all around him. To say that it is amateur hour at the White House is to slander amateurs. The recent executive orders were drafted and signed without any normal agency review or even semicoherent legal advice, filled with elemental errors that any nursery school student would have caught…
he also quotes former Bush II official (and raging Iran/Iraq hawk) Eliot Cohen in the Atlantic:
It will probably end in calamity — substantial domestic protest and violence, a breakdown of international economic relationships, the collapse of major alliances, or perhaps one or more new wars (even with China) on top of the ones we already have. It will not be surprising in the slightest if his term ends not in four or in eight years, but sooner, with impeachment or removal under the 25th Amendment.
if you told me a year ago that david brooks's column would be darkly implying that a sitting republican president might not serve out his full term, i wouldn't have believed you.

hell, i might not have believed you two months ago.
posted by murphy slaw at 2:56 AM on January 31, 2017 [49 favorites]


CNN talked to a bunch of folks in a PA diner. All of them except one were completely behind Trump's ban.

No, CNN decided to SHOW you a bunch of folks who had the POV the workers wanted you to see.

What would be useful is if someone had the WHOLE interaction. Like from the surveillance cameras. Or someone's cell phone video.
posted by rough ashlar at 3:03 AM on January 31, 2017 [43 favorites]


It's a new thread so: I've started a weekly newsletter for the UK called The Loyal Opposition. It's a list of short, concrete actions to defend the weak, rebuild civic institutions, and fight right-wing extremism; here's issue 1.

Most of the actions (writing to MPs, donating money, attending protests) are UK-centric, but some are about the US, because hey, the US affects everyone on this planet and our politicians have a better chance than others of influencing public opinion over there.

Please sign up or tell your British friends! 234 subscribers and counting...
posted by adrianhon at 3:04 AM on January 31, 2017 [29 favorites]


There is still an enormous education problem about Trump's ban. Many people still think it's about undocumented immigrants or criminals or terrorists or something. These are the same people who've spent the last decade or more going "why can't they just come in legally?" We have to make it clear that this is about people who've done everything right and followed a ridiculously convoluted legal process, except now they've had that taken away from them.

This is about the 15-year-old Australian kid with Iranian parents who can't go on his class trip to the Houston Rocket Center. This is about the tens of thousands of college students stuck in limbo right now. This is about kids seeing their grandparents, engineers working for Google, patients waiting to get to tertiary hospitals. This is like going through the worst bureaucratic DMV experience imaginable, only to be told at the last step that they can't get a license because the guy in charge doesn't like the hospital where they were born.

The vast majority of Americans have no clue how the legal immigration system works (or doesn't), and they're not really interested in learning. In the absence of that education effort, I think we have to brand this as punishment for the people who really did do everything right to come legally. Many Trump voters won't care of course, but having this many people so uninformed about the ban is not sustainable.
posted by zachlipton at 3:04 AM on January 31, 2017 [94 favorites]


Also in addition to using "President Bannon" as often as possible, I wish we could get some people to start writing about how Trump CAN'T get rid of Steve Bannon because Bannon is the only reason the White House hasn't burned down yet and there's no way Trump could be President without him.
posted by threeturtles at 3:12 AM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


The absence of an anti-LGBT EO does not mean there won't be a RFRA.

I do really enjoy the Times pointing out that "The decision to keep the order, the statement added, was Mr. Trump’s" as if anyone, especially POTUS, should be praised for keeping people's lawful protections from discrimination in place.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:28 AM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


It's also just a little bit of protesting too much. Who else would make such a decision? Surely there's only one person making the decisions, right?
posted by nickmark at 3:41 AM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


Many people still think it's about undocumented immigrants or criminals or terrorists or something.

Yeah, I think that it's really easy to underestimate just how little information most people have. We don't have a culture that encourages being educated on the issues. Most people get their news from television in twenty second soundbites, or they get it from social media.

You can see them in the comments on stories about the ban, saying things like "well, she shouldn't have broken the law if she wanted to stay" - they have no clue whatsoever of the basic facts.

I don't know what the solution is, but I think we need to educate people in our lives about what Trump's policies do. Tell them what the ban does. Tell them about some of the people who are affected. If they are racist assholes, they might not care, but I've seen more than one person on social media say "If that's what it actually does I'm against it" or something like that.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 3:44 AM on January 31, 2017 [15 favorites]


All of them except one were completely behind Trump's ban.

I do believe there is a substantial body of opinion out there that sort of likes seeing liberals and foreigners made to eat their liver, and is not disposed to think about it much more deeply than that.
posted by Segundus at 3:52 AM on January 31, 2017 [11 favorites]


I do believe there is a substantial body of opinion out there that sort of likes seeing liberals and foreigners made to eat their liver, and is not disposed to think about it much more deeply than that.

I've seen people post things like "liberal tears are delicious" as though it doesn't matter how many individual lives are ruined as long as it makes your political opponents unhappy.
posted by Slothrup at 3:56 AM on January 31, 2017 [35 favorites]


"President Bannon" is only effective as a rhetorical device if Trump says something about it in the next 12 hours. I already think that if he didn't tweet about it at 3 am, it's not something he cares about. If it doesn't get under Trump's skin, saying it only normalizes the idea that Bannon is Presidential, or that we accept that he's in power. It already has no shock value.

I'd switch to wording that better reflects Trump's lack of control or incompetence, like Bannon's Puppet, or Bannon's (insert non-sexist word that I can't come up with because there are a couple of misogynist ones filling my head that would work perfectly). Let's not help create a world where Bannon gets even more power and most people we need as allies shrug and say "eh, he was already doing it, now it's just official"
posted by Mchelly at 4:06 AM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


Bannon's (insert non-sexist word that I can't come up with because there are a couple of misogynist ones filling my head that would work perfectly).

I understand the appropriate vernacular is Bannon's Cuck?
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 4:09 AM on January 31, 2017 [15 favorites]


(Not that it's one I'd choose to use, because I find the "insult" hilariously absurd)
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 4:10 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


It would be a shame to use cuck, as it's currently a great way to filter the opinions of the awfuls.
posted by mushhushshu at 4:15 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


This cartoon of him on Bannon's lap is basically what that SNL skit needs to be.

Why not continue the Chicago theme? Steve Bannon and the White House Rag.

"Understandable! Understandable! Yes the travel ban's understandable!
Comprehensible, Comprehensible
Not a bit reprehensible
But Yates thinks its not defensible"
posted by Talez at 4:23 AM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'd switch to wording that better reflects Trump's lack of control or incompetence, like Bannon's Puppet

Bannon's Handpuppet.
posted by Grangousier at 4:24 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Tump has fired Sally Yates. (statement)

I imagine he's steaming that he dosen't (yet) have the power to have her put in front of a wall and shot. Or fed to a pack pf purposely-starved dogs, North Korean-fashion. That power's probably coming, though.
posted by acb at 4:26 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Speaking from a pretty contemptible morass of bewilderment on the other side of the Atlantic, by the way, something that's come into my head that would annoy the right people: Explicitly appropriate the language of the right - lots of rhetoric about Freedom, Liberty, and Opposing Tyranny. Use the same words as them. And dress up as founding fathers like they enjoy to (pace Hamilton). And lots of talk about the Constitution (the good thing about Liberals is that they are more likely to actually have read it. Many may even understand it) Make sure that there are enough people in public protests who tie what's going on explicitly to the founding mythology of the United States.

It might not have any lasting impact and people may not want to do it, and as I say it has nothing to do with me - not my language or mythology. But it would be a good time to take Freedom back for the people.
posted by Grangousier at 4:30 AM on January 31, 2017 [19 favorites]


This is what I can do right now. I don't have money, I don't have a functioning body, but I have time and an internet connection. And the ability to keep like 15 tabs of refreshing content open and not go insane.

Spoken to my husband last night: "If I could do data entry for the revolution, that'd be awesome." (I do do data entry for one group right now, but I definitely have time to take on a couple more.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:33 AM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


In case there was any residual doubt, the immigration ban is absolutely not a "head-fake". It's the first shot of Steve Bannon's global war on Islam. This neatly ties the ban together with the NSC reshuffle, and also rationalizes (to some degree) the administration's addiction to creating chaos: the more things are churned up, and the angrier people get, the more likely a "flashpoint event" becomes that will let them really crack down without restraint. If there's any sort of planning behind these brutalist fumblings, I suspect that's its goal.
posted by informavore at 4:35 AM on January 31, 2017 [13 favorites]


it doesn't matter how many individual lives are ruined as long as it makes your political opponents unhappy

Well, they wouldn't see those lives as fully human. Subhumans are expendable, and there's nothing wrong in burning a few just to trigger some snowflakes.
posted by acb at 4:43 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Bannon's handpuppet

Well. That evokes some pretty upsetting imagery.
posted by From Bklyn at 4:45 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


RE: The Wall

Does Trump know what a Sapper is?
posted by drezdn at 4:48 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Bannon's handpuppet

The Merriam-Webster Dictionary reports "Svengali" is trending.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:49 AM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


I would say Trump's Rasputin but that might be giving him too much credit.
posted by vuron at 4:54 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Kushner and Ivanka have a serious talk with Dad and threaten that they will work and running his company and name into the ground if they don't fire Bannon.

I highly doubt that will happen, but if it did, I think they'd both get a surprise about how much dear old dad really loves his favourite son-in-law. My money would be on Trump having played affectionate dad for years for Ivanka's sake - and whether he loves her in any recognisable, human way at all, rather than like a really, really shiny pony is still kind of a mystery - and unless Kushner has some kind of dirt on Trump, that Trump doesn't know about!, I reckon Kushner is going under the bus. I agree with whoever said that that gang of racists are probably all hugging themselves and twirling around like Mary Tyler Moore to have someone who thinks he's part of the gang, but is the one the rest of the gang gives up to the principal once he stops being useful. Plus: Jewish. Win-win.
posted by glitter at 4:58 AM on January 31, 2017 [10 favorites]


I would say Trump's Rasputin but that might be giving him too much credit.

It would also result in this playing in my head forever.
posted by mushhushshu at 4:59 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


"President Bannon" is only effective as a rhetorical device if Trump says something about it in the next 12 hours. I already think that if he didn't tweet about it at 3 am, it's not something he cares about. If it doesn't get under Trump's skin, saying it only normalizes the idea that Bannon is Presidential, or that we accept that he's in power. It already has no shock value.

I'd switch to wording that better reflects Trump's lack of control or incompetence, like Bannon's Puppet, or Bannon's (insert non-sexist word that I can't come up with because there are a couple of misogynist ones filling my head that would work perfectly). Let's not help create a world where Bannon gets even more power and most people we need as allies shrug and say "eh, he was already doing it, now it's just official"


He has to be aware of it to respond to it. And as much as it is out there right now the only media that we know he watches or aware of is that's said it is NYT times in one opinion piece. And this piece may not have been in the headlines.
posted by Jalliah at 5:01 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Chicago Trib: White House claims 109 affected by travel ban - it's more like 90,000

- "According to the Department of Homeland Security, 348 people were denied boarding from the issuance of the executive order on Friday through 6 p.m. on Sunday."

-"The executive order means that visa holders will not be able to travel to the United States for at least 90 days. Or, if they are in the United States currently, they will not be able to leave and assume that they can return before the travel suspension ends.

Here's the breakdown by country:

Iran: 34,819 nonimmigrant visas, 7,179 immigrant visas

Iraq: 13,335 nonimmigrant visas, 2,010 immigrant visas

Syria: 9,770 nonimmigrant visas, 1,901 immigrant visas

Sudan: 5,039 nonimmigrant visas, 1,642 immigrant visas

Yemen: 4,472 nonimmigrant visas, 3,143 immigrant visas

Libya: 3,303 nonimmigrant visa, 272 immigrant visas

Somalia: 399 nonimmigrant visas, 1,078 immigrant visas"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:10 AM on January 31, 2017 [42 favorites]


Yeah I was totally thinking about that being something I could conceivably do even from my bed with no intention (due to no ability) to show up. I've taken it on myself to join LITERALLY EVERY activist FB group for a range of maybe 300 miles in Texas around me. And I make sure they know about what each other are doing. One event is posted in one group, I go around and see if it's been posted in all the others yet.

PS: this is definitely helping, because your efforts are the only way I found out that a Houston protest at IAH was definitely happening and I used that to tell at least three or four Austin groups what was up and to normalize marching on over to Houston in the morning. For those of you outside Texas that is a three hour drive. Next time I'll just say "yeah let's just go to AUS in solidarity" but you do know that your group is immensely important to me to help coordinate, right?

(it was indeed just us, but at least ten people said they were with us in spirit and frankly I didn't expect much else. You do have to give people SOME time to see things, esp at 10p on a Monday night.)
posted by sciatrix at 5:13 AM on January 31, 2017 [16 favorites]


Signs from the protests in the UK last night here.

My personal favourite is "Get Fucked Wotsit Hitler".

(GIS for Wotsits, if you don't know of them)
posted by MattWPBS at 5:14 AM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


That Sessions/Yates video was just mentioned on BBC News. It's certainly got people's attention.
posted by Devonian at 5:15 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Tump has fired Sally Yates. (statement)

The thing that took down former USAG Alberto Gonzales and others in his office had nothing to do with The Patriot Act, or torture memos. It was firing AGs for political reasons. Is it any different when a president does it?
posted by Room 641-A at 5:20 AM on January 31, 2017 [11 favorites]




Why are we quite possibly hurtling towards domestic and international conflict? Germany had WWI and economic catastrophe to complain about.

A woman had a private email server
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:23 AM on January 31, 2017 [91 favorites]


With regards to the Yemen raid, this jumped out:

Karen Greenberg, director of Fordham University's Center on National Security, said the girl's death will be a boon to al Qaeda propagandists.

"The perception will be that it's not enough to kill al-Awlaki — that the U.S. had to kill the entire family," she said.


Anyone else remembering Trump saying he wanted the military to kill the families of terrorists? Could be a purely botched job, but could be worse.
posted by MattWPBS at 5:23 AM on January 31, 2017 [17 favorites]


I know the ACLU and etc. can only use so many people at LAX, but I am profoundly hating feeling this useless as the headlines keep coming. Doing normal work feels like a bad joke right now.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:23 AM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


Question: Could negative input serve as Narcissistic Supply (NS)?

Answer: Yes, it can. NS includes all forms of attention - both positive and negative: fame, notoriety, adulation, fear, applause, approval. Whenever the narcissist gets attention, positive or negative, whenever he is in the "limelight", it constitutes NS. If he can manipulate people or influence them – positively or negatively – it qualifies as NS.


Last night during the nickname discussion I considered making a post using a british term for fart and a variation of an R-rated Canterbury Tale. But then I started to think that, with everything we know about this person, not referring to him by name might be far more frustrating to him. I think I'm going to try that. Talk about what's going on but not use his name.
posted by bunderful at 5:35 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Sally Yates middle name is Quillian which is like pretty bad ass by itself.

Which reminds me. You know how "Quisling" became a shorthand term for collaborators and spineless sycophants? Would be pretty cool if "Yates" became shorthand for the exact opposite of that.

Don't be a Quisling, be a Yates.
posted by tobascodagama at 5:37 AM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


Don't be a Quisling, be a Yates.

I need someone to draft up a variation of that Facebook stick figure meme saying "Sally defied Trump. Sally is smart. Be like Sally."
posted by C'est la D.C. at 5:41 AM on January 31, 2017 [50 favorites]


Trump has a regular Putin and an Assputin.
posted by ian1977 at 5:41 AM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]


How to Build an Autocracy
The preconditions are present in the U.S. today. Here’s the playbook Donald Trump could use to set the country down a path toward illiberalism. - David Frum .
posted by adamvasco at 5:42 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trump’s hard-line actions have an intellectual godfather: Jeff Sessions

Bannon sounds like he's getting his Goebbels on in his e-mail supporting Sessions from that Post article: "In America and Europe, working people are reasserting their right to control their own destinies. Jeff Sessions has been at the forefront of this movement for years, developing populist nation-state policies that are supported by the vast and overwhelming majority of Americans, but are poorly understood by cosmopolitan elites in the media that live in a handful of our larger cities. {...} What we are witnessing now is the birth of a new political order, and the more frantic a handful of media elites become, the more powerful that new political order becomes itself." {emphasis added}
posted by Doktor Zed at 5:46 AM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


Washington Post: Customs agents at Dulles forced lawful permanent U.S. residents to give up their green cards this weekend, according to a complaint filed Monday in federal court in Alexandria. Tareq Aqel Mohammed Aziz and Ammar Aqel Mohammed Aziz were flying from Yemen to the United States. Both had been granted immigrant visas because their father, who lives in Flint, Mich., is a U.S. citizen.

When they arrived at Dulles Saturday morning, the Aziz brothers were handcuffed and their immigration paperwork was seized, according to the complaint.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:47 AM on January 31, 2017 [14 favorites]


"This. This is a picture."
posted by Buntix at 5:50 AM on January 31, 2017 [24 favorites]




Prepper tip of the day:

If anyone here (like me) is a naturalized immigrant (or has a loved one who is), I recommend that before things get even more hairy, make sure you have a valid US passport, as well as your naturalization certificate. US passports are usually valid for 10 years, so consider getting a new one if the expiration date on yours falls before the end of Trump's presidency.

If you cannot find your naturalization certificate (docs can always get lost), here are the instructions to get a replacement, and the form is in that website as well. This process is $555 and can take a few weeks, so try to get your ducks in a row or save up to get your paperwork done asap. You don't want to scramble if someone asks you for evidence of citizenship in the future.

And make digital copies and share them with family and contacts, in case you find yourself "undocumented".
posted by Tarumba at 5:52 AM on January 31, 2017 [14 favorites]


cosmopolitan elites in the media

Huh, I wonder what he could possibly mean by that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by uncleozzy at 5:53 AM on January 31, 2017 [18 favorites]


There is still an enormous education problem about Trump's ban. Many people still think it's about undocumented immigrants or criminals or terrorists or something.

So I waded deep into Republican Twitter about this, and I think mostly it falls in a few groups.

A) People who are totally okay with an actual Muslim ban, that only get unhinged when people mention it also impacts Christians and Jews

B) People who believe only 109 people affected but simultaneously that the "bad guys" were kept out

C) People who insist it's the same thing Obama did

D) People who have various ideas about implementation but weren't supporting it anyway.

Like I had no idea that many people were scheduled to come in the next 90 days or that so many people came as students or medical purposes, but I already opposed the ban so it's not like me knowing that impacted my position much.
posted by corb at 5:54 AM on January 31, 2017 [27 favorites]


Over on The Conversation, Rhona Smith describes the ways in which the ban order breaches the Geneva Convention:
A guide to the Geneva Convention for beginners, dummies and newly elected world leaders

Might help to add Smith's points to one's conversations with the clueless, at least some older people who experienced WW2 and/or its aftermath might retain a vestige of respect for that venerable agreement.
posted by valetta at 5:55 AM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


Oh and if you are not an immigrant but are brown enough that people might question you, make sure you have your birth certificate at the ready, with digital copies and shared with key people in your life.
posted by Tarumba at 5:57 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


I've found that maintaining sleep hygiene requires me to cut off all political material after 6:00 every evening. It's because something like cell phone video of a (possibly) military convoy flying a Trump flag will keep me revved up for a good 8 hours.
posted by klarck at 5:59 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


Explicitly appropriate the language of the right - lots of rhetoric about Freedom, Liberty, and Opposing Tyranny.

I sort of love this idea. I can see a whole meme campaign
  • Picture of Muslims at prayer at the airport last weekend with "Freedom of Religion"
  • Picture of protestors with big "patriots" text
  • Maybe people being reunited after the ban with "freedom from fear"
posted by shothotbot at 6:02 AM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


It's because something like cell phone video of a (possibly) military convoy flying a Trump flag will keep me revved up for a good 8 hours.

Probably just good Constitution-defenders going to a meeting where they'll talk about executive privilege and the separation of powers.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:04 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Merriam-Webster Dictionary reports "Svengali" is trending.

@MirriamWebster
Top 5 lookups right now, in order:
1. fascism
2. sex (this is always in the top 10)
3. anathema
4. Svengali
5. bigot

Good night!
Great list for a game of exquisite cadaver, bad list for a description of the fears of the populace.
posted by bibliowench at 6:11 AM on January 31, 2017 [11 favorites]




Krugman this morning:

Given the rate at which things are coming to a head, "President Trump" -- the sort-of legitimate head of a republic -- won't last long. Either he or the republic, in any meaningful sense, will be gone quite soon. I have a hard time seeing one year, let alone four. What this means is that anyone considering working for or with this White House -- Senators, officials, businessmen -- shouldn't. Either you're going to go down with a disgraced president, or you're going to be complicit in the death of democracy. Just say no.

It isn't a good feeling to wake up to a New York Times columnist talking about the imminent death of democracy.
posted by diogenes at 6:13 AM on January 31, 2017 [50 favorites]


Iowa Governor Branstad, former "respectable moderate Republican" and now Trump's nominee Ambassador to China:

"Asked about a University of Iowa alert regarding the travel issue sent to students on Sunday, Branstad remarked, “I think if you are from one of those seven countries and you are here, I don’t think you have to worry about it. But you need to be concerned about traveling back to those countries. First of all, they are dangerous places ... "

The governor is right that it is dangerous to travel outside the US; for example the President might sign an executive order preventing you from returning
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:16 AM on January 31, 2017 [20 favorites]


Heehee
posted by ian1977 at 6:16 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Time for some hot hot dictionary action
posted by ian1977 at 6:18 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Matt Levine: "If we’re not going to be a nation of laws, then attitudes toward pieces of paper that carry no weight in the absence of law will have to be rethought." (Those pieces of paper are stocks and bonds.)

I'm thinking I might need to revisit my investment strategy of never changing my long-term strategy based on current events.
posted by diogenes at 6:22 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


I would say Trump's Rasputin but that might be giving him too much credit.

The American Dugin?
posted by acb at 6:23 AM on January 31, 2017


The Merriam-Webster Dictionary reports "Svengali" is trending.

As mentioned earlier, it would have to reach Trump to be effective. Does anyone who has listened to two or three of his speeches think his cultural literacy extends to the term "Svengali"? It is an 1895 George du Maurier novel. I believe one of the last three residents of the Oval Office would understand the reference.

And Trump is not that one (though he has all the best words, believe me).
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:23 AM on January 31, 2017


Trump’s top trade adviser accuses Germany of currency exploitation

That's the problem with a clown car on fire. As soon as it gets on stage there are burning clowns running around everywhere.
posted by Grangousier at 6:24 AM on January 31, 2017 [45 favorites]


cosmopolitan elites in the media

Huh, I wonder what he could possibly mean by that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


It's probably something like the “Communist Bankers” who, when they monologue their nefarious schemes in Bircher pamphlets, start with something like “Oy vey, are you goyim gullible!”

I wonder if the cosmopolitan elites' natures could be said to be “sensual” and/or “trigonometric”...
posted by acb at 6:25 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Svengroady
posted by ian1977 at 6:25 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]




It's really annoying that right-wing goldbugs are probably going to make a killing.
posted by diogenes at 6:26 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Just wanted to point out that the White House press secretary now prints and holds up tweets the president has issues with"

Ugh of course this country winds up with the whiniest sort of fascism.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:27 AM on January 31, 2017 [23 favorites]


Bannon's handpuppet
Well. That evokes some pretty upsetting imagery.
Do you think they'll ship to the White House?
posted by indubitable at 6:28 AM on January 31, 2017


Trump’s top trade adviser accuses Germany of currency exploitation

Bernake had similar thoughts on Germany's trade surplus. Of course unlike Peter Navarro he wasn't unanimously considered a kook by economists, nor did he have a boss willing to help Putin break up the EU.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:28 AM on January 31, 2017


This is from upthread, but:

"Sally Yates was US Attorney General for eleven days. She saved N refugees. I dare you to do better. Apply to law school."

All the positive sentiment towards lawyers is nice, but no, still don't go to law school, at least if you have to take any loan money to do it.

The job market hasn't improved, there's going to be an effort to get rid of PSLF and IBR and suing Trump will not a career make for most lawyers.

If anything, upon graduating with loans you're more likely wind up as a servitor of the corporate and political interests you hoped to oppose.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:34 AM on January 31, 2017 [23 favorites]


"It's really annoying that right-wing goldbugs are probably going to make a killing."

I woke up to an ad on my clock radio just this morning (Cumulus/Album Adult Alt in a college town) for converting your 401K into gold that you can "actually touch". Was too groggy to figure out whether catch was that it was actually a withdrawal or if it was some other party "holding" the metal. Anyways, yes, plenty fear going around to get rich on.
posted by klarck at 6:35 AM on January 31, 2017


Given the rate at which things are coming to a head, "President Trump" -- the sort-of legitimate head of a republic -- won't last long. ... I have a hard time seeing one year, let alone four.

coming from the NYTimes this feels like reverse foreshadowing. this is what makes me feel like he'll go full dictator and be here for a decade. i hope krugman knocked on some fucking wood
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 6:36 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Republicans Must Save This Presidency. Now.

Fat chance of that.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:38 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


All the positive sentiment towards lawyers is nice, but no, still don't go to law school

Especially because law school is 3 years long, and that's just the beginning of becoming an effective lawyer. 0Ls today won't be doing real legal work against Trump until the middle of his second term. You can do a lot more good somewhere else in that time. Just about anywhere else actually.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:40 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


coming from the NYTimes this feels like reverse foreshadowing.

I don't really think of Krugman as the NYT. They give him a platform for an opinion column and a blog, but he's independent from the rest of the paper, and his track record is pretty good.
posted by diogenes at 6:42 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


ABC news is reporting that DHS Sec. John Kelly will hold a press conference on implementation of Pres. Trump's executive orders at 12:00 p.m. EDT [2 hours and 15 minutes from now]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:44 AM on January 31, 2017


At least 8 killed as fighting in Ukraine intensifies again

-- Salvos of heavy-calibre artillery were heard throughout the night and late morning in Avdiivka, where several thousand people have been living without electricity for days. Fighting has cut water supplies for most of the town and it was left without heating in the dead of winter. Temperatures plunged to –18 C on Tuesday morning.

-- The local hospital was flooded with injured soldiers during the night who were operated on and shipped to a town further away from the front line, according to an Associated Press reporter at the scene.

-- Pavlo Zhebrivsky, head of the administration in charge of the government-controlled parts of the Donetsk region, said on Facebook his office was working on a plan to evacuate 12,000 residents from Avdiivka.


Curious if there will be a response from the WH and who they will side with.
posted by futz at 6:44 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


who they will side with.

That's a rhetorical question, right?
posted by diogenes at 6:46 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Curious if there will be a response from the WH and who they will side with.

Trump is too busy tweeting about Dems microphones not working. Priorities.
posted by Jalliah at 6:47 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Republicans Must Save This Presidency

I think we're already in "it became necessary to destroy the village in order to save it" territory, here.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 6:48 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


From 2015, Senate Roll Call Vote on Sally Yates
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:48 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


That's a rhetorical question, right?

I want to hear them say it publicly.
posted by futz at 6:49 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


0Ls today won't be doing real legal work against Trump until the middle of his second term.

I have a bar number and TBH there's very little to do right now unless you're affiliated with an established public interest group.

You can do a lot more good somewhere else in that time. Just about anywhere else actually.

Indeed. And if it's the legal front people want to pitch in on (with more than donation), from my poking around various local org websites it seems there are more ready opportunities for organizers and clerical workers than attorneys. They need help, they just don't need more attorneys they already struggle to support.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:49 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


#GeneralStrike is trending on Twitter.
posted by diogenes at 6:49 AM on January 31, 2017 [20 favorites]


A response from the White House?

Stinkin' Steve will get right on it; but first he's got to get through another couple more EOs.
posted by notyou at 6:49 AM on January 31, 2017


Trump to pharma execs right now: "We'll be cutting regulations at a level nobody's ever seen before!"

The next wave of thalidomide babies should be named "Trump babies" rather than named after whatever drug caused them. Not to be confused with babies who get conceived by parents who get turned on by fascism and the oppression of minorities.
posted by XMLicious at 6:49 AM on January 31, 2017 [23 favorites]


The First Plague should be an irritating but ultimately harmless case of orange tinted crib-cap.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:53 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


"United we stand, divided we fall": letter by President Donald Tusk to the 27 EU heads of state or government on the future of the EU

The challenges currently facing the European Union are more dangerous than ever before in the time since the signature of the Treaty of Rome. Today we are dealing with three threats, which have previously not occurred, at least not on such a scale.


One of these threats:
Particularly the change in Washington puts the European Union in a difficult situation; with the new administration seeming to put into question the last 70 years of American foreign policy.
posted by blub at 6:54 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


The President of the European Council is named Donald Tusk? That won't be confusing at all.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:57 AM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


Trump to pharma execs right now: "We'll be cutting regulations at a level nobody's ever seen before!"


Given that his base are the #1 market for snake-oil, and Trump has no understanding whatsoever about the rational world - I'm still gobsmacked about the pipeline remarks - it's back to medieval medicine for us, along with the feudalism and absolute monarchy leavened only by the machinations of barons (or Bannons).

I never really thought of Game of Thrones as a near future dystopia before.
posted by Devonian at 6:59 AM on January 31, 2017 [17 favorites]


At least we'll get dragons maybe?
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:00 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


"Don Tusk Brooks No Trust of Don Trump In Brusque Brussels Donnybrook"
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:00 AM on January 31, 2017 [95 favorites]


Intercept on White Supremacist Infiltration of Law Enforcement: “Federal law enforcement agencies in general — the FBI, the Marshals, the ATF — are aware that extremists have infiltrated state and local law enforcement agencies and that there are people in law enforcement agencies that may be sympathetic to these groups”
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:01 AM on January 31, 2017 [31 favorites]


Every time I see that guys name I always think of a herd of governmental Elephants all called Donald.

Donald Tusk, Donald Trump, Donald Jumbo, Donald Trunk, Donald Jarakeen, Donald Frump*

A whole herd of them big and small, grey and orange. Stomping around being elephants.



* A white elephant that appears in the TV show Rocko's Modern Life in the episode "Who Invited You?"
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 7:01 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


General strike, you say? Workers unite, Sabot Cat has your back!
posted by informavore at 7:01 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


The President of the European Council is named Donald Tusk? That won't be confusing at all

Whether you're European or American, everyone's got the DTs.
posted by mushhushshu at 7:01 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Every time I see that guys name I always think of a herd of governmental Elephants all called Donald.

Donald Tusk, Donald Trump, Donald Jumbo, Donald Trunk, Donald Jarakeen, Donald Frump*


Worst Babar of all time.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:02 AM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


Holy fuck knobs I finally got to the end of the thread and there are 73 82 more comments. So I'll just leave this here (should I also post in in the IRL section?)

NC Resistance:
Saturday Feb 11: NAACP and HKonJ.com Forward Together Movement to resist repeal of healthcare and rollback of civil rights protections.
posted by yoga at 7:03 AM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]


Donald Tusk, Donald Trump, Donald Jumbo, Donald Trunk, Donald Jarakeen, Donald Frump

Romper, Tromper, Stomper, and Boo?

(Bannon is Boo because, holee shit, he scary)
posted by notsnot at 7:03 AM on January 31, 2017


it's back to medieval medicine for us

Implying that anybody will be able to afford henbane poultices under Trumpcare.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:03 AM on January 31, 2017 [14 favorites]


Huh, I guess Babar was actually about governmental elephants. Just hereditary monarchy ones.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 7:04 AM on January 31, 2017


Shackles or a pine box.

i'll take pine box for 500, alex.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 7:04 AM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


The other night I met up with other local folks to work on programs for our local Democratic club. One of them had been at JFK during the protests this weekend, and said they'd been delayed getting on the AirTrain because Port Authority had stopped it. And then Governor Cuomo directed Port Authority to cut it out. But the Port Authority folks didn't immediately let the protesters on. So the protesters sat down and chanted, in call-and-response, Cuomo's tweet, over and over. And finally the PA folks let the protestors on.

We were at a restaurant chitchatting, waiting for the last of us to arrive. We decided it was time to start.

"Could we all say the Pledge of Allegiance? Because that's how meetings at the Democratic club start..."

"I would feel a little weird saying the Pledge of Allegiance in a restaurant," another person said. And indeed I actually couldn't see a US flag anywhere nearby.

"But I like doing something ritual to start something like this, something where we all chant the same thing together. And people usually don't like to be made to sing."

"How about we chant Cuomo's tweet?" another person suggested.

So somebody looked it up on their phone, and spoke it aloud, and we repeated after them.

"I have ordered..." "I have ordered..."

"the Port Authority..." "the Port Authority..."

"to reverse its decision..." "to reverse its decision..."

"regarding the JFK AirTrain." "regarding the JFK AirTrain."

"The people of New York..." "The people of New York..."

"will have their voices heard." "will have their voices heard."

It was pretty great!
posted by brainwane at 7:05 AM on January 31, 2017 [97 favorites]


General strike, you say? Workers unite, Sabot Cat has your back!

sabot cat is watching you agitate
posted by murphy slaw at 7:06 AM on January 31, 2017 [19 favorites]


General Strike? Hey, just another general that Trump likes!
posted by azpenguin at 7:09 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Can't get through to my senators (Harris/Feinstein) on the phone, so I sent an email and fax, FWIW. I think Harris will do the right thing. Doubt Feinstein will.
posted by entropicamericana at 7:09 AM on January 31, 2017


I'm watching the Sessions hearings now. Hearing Senator Hatch speaks robs my soul of everything good. These people will never change their thinking. Our efforts need to be on pressuring the Democrats to stay strong and fight back.
posted by archimago at 7:15 AM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


Rasmussen: 57 Percent Support a Temporary Ban on Refugees

Rasmussen is a conservative polling company, but fuck, fascism isn't just the government...it is the fascism in our heads.
posted by bodywithoutorgans at 7:17 AM on January 31, 2017 [11 favorites]


“Federal law enforcement agencies in general — the FBI, the Marshals, the ATF — are aware that extremists have infiltrated state and local law enforcement agencies and that there are people in law enforcement agencies that may be sympathetic to these groups”

Gee, what a shock, creepy people who love to dominate being attracted to and wanted in law enforcement jobs. I never would have guessed that would happen!
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:19 AM on January 31, 2017 [17 favorites]


Feinstein just spoke on the Sessions hearings and pretty much tore him apart, if it's any consolation.
posted by windbox at 7:20 AM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]



Rasmussen: 57 Percent Support a Temporary Ban on Refugees

Rasmussen is a conservative polling company, but fuck, the fascism isn't just the government...it is the fascism in our heads.


They played tricksy with the wording of the question. 1* Do you favor or oppose a temporary ban on refugees from Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen until the federal government improves its ability to screen out potential terrorists from coming here?

Which implies that the government is failing to do this already. Which follows the narrative that Trump Co. has been pushing.
posted by Jalliah at 7:21 AM on January 31, 2017 [65 favorites]


> Feinstein just spoke on the Sessions hearings and pretty much tore him apart, if it's any consolation.

Like with Trump, it's actions that matter, not words. As Sen. Warren said last night, "criticism is not enough." That goes for the supposed good guys as well.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:21 AM on January 31, 2017 [11 favorites]


The President of the European Council is named Donald Tusk? That won't be confusing at all.

This is gonna end in another Mars Climate Orbiter situation, isn't it
posted by saturday_morning at 7:22 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


Rasmussen: 57 Percent Support a Temporary Ban on Refugees

That's 57% of "likely voters" according to Rasmussen, based on their phrasing, data collection and interpretation. There's a strong streak of xenophobic anti-refugee sentiment but Rasmussen doesn't deserve our trust on its exact prevalence.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:23 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Rasmussen: 57 Percent Support a Temporary Ban on Refugees

First off, the question wording is such that it minimizes the reality of the ban and its possible results which gooses the favorability.

"Do you favor or oppose a temporary ban on refugees from Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen until the federal government improves its ability to screen out potential terrorists from coming here?"

And secondly, the right, constitutional, American thing is not determined by polling. Interracial marriage was not a majority opinion until 1997, 30 years after Loving v Virginia.
posted by chris24 at 7:23 AM on January 31, 2017 [52 favorites]


All the positive sentiment towards lawyers is nice, but no, still don't go to law school, at least if you have to take any loan money to do it.

Yeah I really did think "I should have gone to law school and it's not too late" for a few minutes but then I thought it would be more practical and effective and immediate to just give all the money I'd spend on law school tuition to the ACLU. then I checked my assets and what do you know, I don't actually have law school tuition money.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:24 AM on January 31, 2017 [16 favorites]


Many people, with good reason, consider Reddit to be still part of the problem, but here we go: Alexis Ohanian aka kn0thing, executive chairman of Reddit and "son of an undocumented immigrant from Germany and the great grandson of refugees who fled the Armenian Genocide", just wrote An open letter to the Reddit community. Lots of family stories in the comments.
posted by elgilito at 7:24 AM on January 31, 2017 [25 favorites]


Holy fuck knobs

SIRI:
Did you mean......JAMES....DOBSON.....or.....JERRY...FALWELL.... JR.....or...RICHARD....LAND.......or......PAULA.....WHITE.....or.....RABBI....SHEMTOV........or............
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:25 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Yeah, I am a lawyer and I'm starting to think about how to use that to fight this (I volunteered to go to Dulles but wasn't called and I'm signed up to take a training on doing pro bono asylum cases next month), but don't go to law school. The heroes this weekend were lawyers, but last weekend it was National Parks employees, who knows who'll it be next weekend. Everyone has a part to play, do what you can now, with the skills you have.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:27 AM on January 31, 2017 [49 favorites]


Feinstein just spoke on the Sessions hearings and pretty much tore him apart, if it's any consolation.

Sounds like she's about to vote "yes."
posted by rhizome at 7:28 AM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


Spicer tweeted out his password again.
posted by drezdn at 7:29 AM on January 31, 2017 [39 favorites]


According to DiFi's Twitter, she voted no. Can someone confirm her vote?
posted by entropicamericana at 7:31 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


I heard Feinstein say no.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:32 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Confirmed.
posted by zabuni at 7:32 AM on January 31, 2017 [10 favorites]


I just wanted to point out that this is a portion of the text in the executive order:

"The United States cannot, and should not, admit those who do not support the Constitution, or those who would place violent ideologies over American law."

I understand why we wouldn't want violent ideologies like mercenary capitalism that destroys lives and environment, or fundamentalist Christianity that kidnaps children and sends them to pray away the gay camps in Central America.

Oh wait you meant every Muslim ever.
posted by Tarumba at 7:33 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


Spicer tweeted out his password again.

folks, spicer was the chief republican strategist and they won. we should be ashamed.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:34 AM on January 31, 2017 [29 favorites]


Has anyone considered the possibility that Spicer's password tweets are code

If so, do they tell us anything about the thermal exhaust port
posted by saturday_morning at 7:35 AM on January 31, 2017 [19 favorites]


Confirmed.

phrasing!
posted by murphy slaw at 7:35 AM on January 31, 2017 [35 favorites]


They played tricksy with the wording of the question.
...
Which implies that the government is failing to do this already. Which follows the narrative that Trump Co. has been pushing.


I agree the poll is poorly constructed. Nevertheless as an immigrant, I worry that inspite of this wonderful community and my liberal enclave, I am seriously misunderestimating the fascistic, racist, and xenophobic elements of American society.

This is a war of perception.
posted by bodywithoutorgans at 7:37 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


If so, do they tell us anything about the thermal exhaust port

it's a small port right above the main port, and two meters wide. it would be smaller, but bannon's had his hand up there so long it's pretty stretched out
posted by entropicamericana at 7:38 AM on January 31, 2017 [11 favorites]


At least 8 killed as fighting in Ukraine intensifies again

Yes, it's possible this weekend's events were also a distraction from this. There's a Syria-like humanitarian crisis in the making. We have the opportunity to make a statement at today's OSCE meeting.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:38 AM on January 31, 2017


it would be smaller, but bannon's had his hand up there so long it's pretty stretched out

Ah, the ol' womp rat bull's eye.
posted by saturday_morning at 7:39 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Because I can't bring myself to watch the Sessions sessions -- has anyone managed to press him on the Yates confirmation video?
posted by saturday_morning at 7:40 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


How many Americans were going to pay attention to fighting in Ukraine anyway?

I really doubt the "distraction" theory if only because I doubt the administration's ability to pay attention to two things at once.
posted by tel3path at 7:40 AM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


Eric Geller at Politico says that the cybersecurity EO to be signed at 3:00 this afternoon "does not sound much like the draft that circulated."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:41 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


@AndyKindler
"You have to give Hitler credit. He's following through on his campaign promises." - Cable News 1933.
posted by chris24 at 7:41 AM on January 31, 2017 [30 favorites]


People want to show up. They're motivated to show up. But they still feel like they need to be told, or asked, to show up. People here were asking whether any groups were organizing a protest. And I'm like, people, YOU ARE THE PEOPLE! You don't need a group to organize your protest!

But you can't say that, because in doing so you're telling THEM to organize. Most people don't want to be organizers -- they want to be protesters. They just want to show up.


From way, way upthread. QFFT.

Apparently, I'm an organizer. I used to be a follower. I joined ACT UP/LA in 1989. But I started a group in November and had a meeting and now we've had 4 meetings and 5 MeFites have shown up and we're creating an Advocacy/Activism Curriculum and yesterday I sent a Farsi interpreter to LAX with sharpies and notepads for the lawyers still in the international terminal.

NOTE: I keep getting pleas from red states for people to show up to calls or meetings. Is there anywhere on MeFi I can post this where it might be seen by folks wanting to be active without getting Cortex upset? TIA
posted by Sophie1 at 7:41 AM on January 31, 2017 [19 favorites]


Seems relevant now. From Wikipedia, Push Poll
A push poll is an interactive marketing technique, most commonly employed during political campaigning, in which an individual or organization attempts to manipulate or alter prospective voters' views/beliefs under the guise of conducting an opinion poll.

In a push poll, large numbers of voters are contacted with little effort made to actually collect and analyze voters' response data. Instead, the push poll is a form of telemarketing-based propaganda and rumor mongering, masquerading as an opinion poll. Push polls may rely on innuendo, or information gleaned from opposition research on the political opponent of the interests behind the poll.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:41 AM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


Spicer tweeted out his password again.

Alright, this can't be a simple accident anymore. He's cutting and pasting his password and his tweets or something like that. And won't change his habits.

Possibly, the tweets are being iMessaged/Slacked or emailed to him?
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:41 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


I agree the poll is poorly constructed.

i think it's very well constructed for what it was intended to achieve. it's basically a push poll.

unfortunately coverage of the results will probably gloss that over.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:42 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


By the way - one MeFite has driven 120 miles both ways to show up at meetings. Twice. That is some fucking dedication!!!!
posted by Sophie1 at 7:42 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Fun fact, my dad was trying very gingerly to convince me to consider pivoting to get a JD on top of my PhD a couple months ago and go into biological patent law, back when I was being a little more openly bitter about the obvious impending death of American basic science.

My dad works for a company that literally creates software to do the shit that business lawyers used to do. It, uh, it did not take long for me to spot the flaws with paying for a JD right now. That would have been true even if I wasn't the primary breadwinner right now and could have afforded another four years of backbreaking work and minimal pay/maximal debt while I work like a dog for a promised good job that will never materialize. (To his credit, it didn't take him long to realize why I wasn't enthusiastic about the idea either, but still!)
posted by sciatrix at 7:43 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


There's a Syria-like humanitarian crisis in the making.

Ukrainians are white and are right on the border of the EU. They'll walk across the border to Poland or Romania if they have to. I guarantee you'll be astounded at the difference between Syria and the response to any Ukranian refugee situation.
posted by Talez at 7:43 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Feinstein is voting NO on Sessions!
posted by Sophie1 at 7:43 AM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


Just called my congressman (Grijalva) to urge a no vote on HR621 which would sell off a lot of public lands in the west. So many damn fronts to fight on.
posted by azpenguin at 7:44 AM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


I guarantee you'll be astounded at the difference between Syria and the response to any Ukranian refugee situation.

I don't know - there's a shameful number of British people utterly freaked out by polish plumbers, for instance. Bigotry is pretty mutable.
posted by Artw at 7:46 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Ryan has gone full-Nazi.

@ericawerner
Several members say Speaker Ryan stood up in conference this morning and strongly DEFENDED Trump immigration order
posted by chris24 at 7:48 AM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


NOTE: I keep getting pleas from red states for people to show up to calls or meetings. Is there anywhere on MeFi I can post this where it might be seen by folks wanting to be active without getting Cortex upset? TIA

The Projects tab. And the IRL tab for events and actions.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:48 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Several members say Speaker Ryan stood up in conference this morning and strongly DEFENDED Trump immigration order

Are there going to be official minutes, or audio or video of this?
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:49 AM on January 31, 2017


Several members say Speaker Ryan stood up in conference this morning and strongly DEFENDED Trump immigration order

it is amazing how he is able to stand without a spine
posted by entropicamericana at 7:49 AM on January 31, 2017 [39 favorites]


Who is this clown talking now in the Sessions hearing? He basically just said "Who else is Trump supposed to pick? He's not allowed to pick his bother in law like JFK did." A constituent heckled him and was ushered out screaming I love This Country.
posted by archimago at 7:50 AM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]


Aargh, I ran out of favorites way up there. But thank you all, for keeping the sanity alive. When I woke up this morning to the news of Trump having fired Sally Yates, I was certain the coup was over and the world's largest economy and military power had been wholly taken over by a small band of psychos with no clue about what they are doing.
Now you have convinced me that it isn't completely over yet, and it's worth it to fight against the orange nazi (also I keep refreshing the UK petition like it is oxygen).
It's hard to stand here thousands of miles away and not be able to do much; seeing how so many of you are fighting the good fight is heartening. Keep up the resistance!
posted by mumimor at 7:50 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


You'd think someone looking to lead the DoE would know plagiarism is bad.

DeVos questionnaire appears to include passages from uncited sources
posted by chris24 at 7:50 AM on January 31, 2017 [25 favorites]


Ryan wants to get support for cutting Social Security, etc. He'll cut deals with Trump on any old thing as long as he can make sure we're all eating catfood in retirement. Or dead.
posted by Frowner at 7:50 AM on January 31, 2017 [10 favorites]


Feinstein is voting NO on Sessions!

She's finally noticing everyone's horror at her waffling. There were going to be protests at all her offices this afternoon (there probably still will be, but this was the big impetus for them).
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:50 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


I don't know - there's a shameful number of British people utterly freaked out by polish plumbers, for instance.

I'd say there's a difference between "white refugee from war zone" and "white person who 'just' wants a better job", but yeah, racists will definitely shift their definition of Those People as necessary.
posted by Etrigan at 7:51 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Yes, it's possible this weekend's events were also a distraction from this.

Aside from what's already been said upthread about this sort of thinking erasing the very real harm being done right now to thousands of people because it's somehow not as important as a hypothetical future bad thing that you've imagined might happen, I also don't see how it's actually distracting from anything considering how, for example, I've now heard of the National Security Council for the first time in my life. More importantly, I actually think it works the other way. People getting angry at the Trump administration creates more scrutiny and more energy for protesting other abuses he's in the middle of or will commit in the future. I doubt the crowds at airports this weekend would have been as large without the Women's March because these things build and have momentum as people see they have some effects and bring people together, and that means they can do more on more issues, not less.
posted by Copronymus at 7:51 AM on January 31, 2017 [27 favorites]


I'm officially done with NPR. I hadn't been listening recently because they're so committed to false balance, and sure enough, I flipped over and Audie Cornish was interviewing a state AG who was planning to sue Trump over the executive order, and she interrupted him to say, "Well, the president has broad authority to control immigration, RIGHT?"

Fucking everyone already knows that the question is not whether the president has the power to issue EOs about immigration, but whether THIS PARTICULAR ONE IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL ON ITS FACE.

Nice job taking him to task on something that you personally know is not in dispute.
posted by radicalawyer at 7:51 AM on January 31, 2017 [63 favorites]


Several members say Speaker Ryan stood up in conference this morning and strongly DEFENDED Trump immigration order

it is amazing how he is able to stand without a spine


This implies that he personally disagrees with what Trump is doing, but I see absolutely no evidence to support that
posted by saturday_morning at 7:52 AM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


Who is this clown talking now in the Sessions hearing?

Lindsay Graham is talking now, so I'm guessing that's the specific clown you heard.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:53 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


NPR continues to straddle the fence between complicity in and collaboration with the regime.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:54 AM on January 31, 2017 [10 favorites]


They're done straddling it. They've lubed up and are bearing down.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:56 AM on January 31, 2017 [14 favorites]


If you're wondering how the ban is being reported on Fox, an example is here. Due warning: you may wish to tear your sensory organs out at some point during the clip.
posted by jaduncan at 7:58 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


You fuck up the second CTL-C and your clipboard doesn't change.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:59 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Does it not stay logged in between uses?
posted by Fleebnork at 7:59 AM on January 31, 2017


qcubed, yasaman, sciatrix: thank you all very much for your posts, I'm taking them to heart. I'm sorry for the grief my ignorance caused.
posted by rocket at 7:59 AM on January 31, 2017 [11 favorites]


Can someone recommend a nice, light ATC-esque morning show to ease into my day that isn't hosted by today's equivalent of Tokyo Rose and Lord Haw-Haw?
posted by entropicamericana at 8:00 AM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


Spicer strikes me as a guy who drops his phone into the toilet pretty regularly.
posted by Etrigan at 8:00 AM on January 31, 2017 [28 favorites]


Just use lastpass already.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:00 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Does it not stay logged in between uses?

Not if yer switching accounts.
posted by notyou at 8:01 AM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


You fuck up the second CTL-C and your clipboard doesn't change.

Twice in a week, and twice not bothering to see what the pasted text is *when posting on the press secretary account*? That's almost as impressive as thinking that the status bar is the password field, TBH.
posted by jaduncan at 8:01 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Senate Democrats boycott committee votes on Price and Mnuchin

This postpones the votes because the committees do not have a quorum.
posted by thecaddy at 8:01 AM on January 31, 2017 [88 favorites]


You fuck up the second CTL-C and your clipboard doesn't change.

That explains how it can get in the tweet box(been there done that, do it on metafilter all the time) but not the brains needed to push 'tweet' once it's in there.
posted by Jalliah at 8:02 AM on January 31, 2017


Re: Tweeting your password, if you have two-factor auth set up on Twitter you login with your username and password and then it texts you a number for the two-factor. For whatever reason, the number it texts you from is the same number (40404) that hooks into the text-to-Twitter system (that I don't think anyone uses anymore but used to be the primary way posting to Twitter worked, hence the 140-char limit). I *guess* I could see mistaking that as a prompt for your password and replying to it, which would then post to your Twitter account..?
posted by zempf at 8:02 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


I could not help but laugh helplessly at the fact that Tusk's letter to EU leaders did not include Britain's Prime Minister Theresa May 0:
posted by moody cow at 8:03 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


@marcorubio: Following orders of leftwing extremists, @SenateDems boycotted vote on @POTUS nominees for Treasury & HHS. They will still be confirmed! MR

Looks like Little Marco has gotten fully on board the Trump Choo-Choo.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:04 AM on January 31, 2017 [13 favorites]


Twice in a week, and twice not bothering to see what the pasted text is *when posting on the press secretary account*? That's almost as impressive as thinking that the status bar is the password field, TBH.

There is a ~103% chance that Spicer is the kind of guy who types "google.com" into the search box, then clicks the first Bing result and does his search there.
posted by Mayor West at 8:04 AM on January 31, 2017 [56 favorites]


I *guess* I could see mistaking that as a prompt for your password and replying to it, which would then post to your Twitter account..?

Twice in a week when you're the press secretary?

I also really, really hope that I can't post to a major governmental account by just spoofing the SMS sender.
posted by jaduncan at 8:04 AM on January 31, 2017



Eric Geller at Politico says that the cybersecurity EO to be signed at 3:00 this afternoon "does not sound much like the draft that circulated."


Oh great. So somebody looked at it and thought wait a minute this doesn't look totally horrible. Give me the horrible version please.
posted by Jalliah at 8:06 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


That explains how it can get in the tweet box(been there done that, do it on metafilter all the time) but not the brains needed to push 'tweet' once it's in there.

Because you're a MAN OF ACTION who's going to SHOW THOSE FUCKERS and CTL-C ALT TAB CTL-V ENTER ALT TAB CTL-V ALT TAB CTL-V ENTER FUCK YEAH

oh shit
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:06 AM on January 31, 2017 [14 favorites]


@marcorubio: Following orders of leftwing extremists

Hey, look, everyone -- Marco got a Trump™ Mirror for Christmas.
posted by Etrigan at 8:06 AM on January 31, 2017 [10 favorites]


Senate Democrats boycott committee votes on Price and Mnuchin

This postpones the votes because the committees do not have a quorum.


YES. Freaking YES. THIS is what you do when you're in the minority and when the majority is tyrannical. You gum up the works. You use every tool at your disposal, no matter how obscure or crude or downright weird. You put your body upon the gears and upon the wheels and levers. You just do it because you can and because it might just work.
posted by saturday_morning at 8:07 AM on January 31, 2017 [112 favorites]


We should probably be happy we haven't seen his dick yet.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:08 AM on January 31, 2017 [24 favorites]


Senate Democrats boycott committee votes on Price and Mnuchin

FINALLY fighting a little dirty. That's the type of thing that should ideally get people calls thanking them.
posted by jaduncan at 8:08 AM on January 31, 2017 [13 favorites]


Can we please stop theorizing that the immigration ban is a distraction from X? I am not saying X isn't important, but the immigration ban is the death of whatever sense of honor the US had left. It's short sighted, discriminatory, ignorant, unconstitutional, and immoral.

It's short sighted because selfishly, our society functions with the assistance of tons of professionals from these countries, so it's not even like Trump is protecting private business either. If I were an MD from Iran, I would right now look into moving to Canada or Europe, even if it costs me time and money. The US already has a shortage of physicians.

Ignorant because it is written assuming that religious minorities are Christian, when many refugees fled because their particular doctrine of Islam was not the right one and so, are ALSO religious minorities, only apparently Muslim = bad so they are on their own.

Immoral because for many reasons, but for example the Special Immigrant visas fall under the umbrella of refugee, and they were for to those who helped our troops. It was a contract between us and those immigrants who put their lives at risk for years for us, and now we're doing essentially what Trump has been doing to all small business owners. They did their part and now we are swindling them.

I could go on, but honestly, the immigration ban is fucking heart breaking. It's not a distraction. It's real.
posted by Tarumba at 8:08 AM on January 31, 2017 [44 favorites]


Just added myself to the UK petition, mainly as a fuck-you to the Twitterers whinging about it.

Mind you they've got a rival petition up signed by the real British people as opposed to us imagination figments.
posted by threetwentytwo at 8:08 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Can someone recommend a nice, light ATC-esque morning show to easy into my day that isn't hosted by today's equivalent of Tokyo Rose and Lord Haw-Haw?

Hard to say - most progressive radio seems to be talk/call in. Am listening to the Stephanie Miller show via http://tunein.com/radio/Progressive-Voices-s189055/, if that helps.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:09 AM on January 31, 2017


How many Americans were going to pay attention to fighting in Ukraine anyway?

BTW the third episode of the series I linked to up above, documenting hate groups, is about the Azov Battalion, a Ukrainian military group based in the far eastern end of the country, and their political arm the National Corps.

Presumably these are the guys who Russians are talking about when they say that they're fighting fascism and neo-nazis in Ukraine. Interesting to compare with the Night Wolves Russian biker gang whose members have gone to Ukraine to fight.
posted by XMLicious at 8:11 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


@marcorubio: Following orders of leftwing extremists

Following orders of rightwing extremists, @marcorubio kneels and kisses the ring reverently.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:12 AM on January 31, 2017 [17 favorites]


Mind you they've got a rival petition up signed by the real British people as opposed to us imagination figments.

"Donald Trump should be invited to make an official State Visit because he is the leader of a free world and U.K. is a country that supports free speech and does not believe that people that appose our point of view should be gagged."

I'm not a right winger, but even if I was I feel that a basic respect for the importance of literacy would make it hard to sign that.
posted by jaduncan at 8:13 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Simon Schama -

Ha'aretz reporting US embassy in Israel reassures 145,000 Jews born in Iraq and Iran of exemption from ban. Which means it IS a Muslim ban
posted by Devonian at 8:13 AM on January 31, 2017 [98 favorites]


People don't really mean that it's a distraction in the sense of relative importance on principle. They mean it has potential to be used as a DIVERSION.

And, yes, you deal with that by making sure you have enough resources (attention, money, bodies) that you aren't in fact diverting anything in a zero-sum sense.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:14 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


From the DeVos hearing:

"Collins now talking about the importance of each Senator having the ability to vote for any Cabinet nominee. Collins’ wording of her support in committee (everyone should get the chance to vote), but her personal “concerns” with the nominee diverge dramatically from the rest of the Republican caucus. She could, possibly, not vote/vote against on the floor."

- does this mean that Collins is opposing DeVos in the committee, or that she will vote yea in committee but may vote differently on the floor?
posted by anastasiav at 8:15 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Honestly, those do sound like errors that could've been made by a native Russian speaker.
posted by tel3path at 8:15 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


These fucking people!

Trump's former EPA transition head has a 'message of hope' about how the government will dismantle environmental policies

But Ebell told the conference that he brought "a message of great hope, both to the US and to the world, in terms of the changes that Trump administration will bring on energy and environmental policy."

Those changes include how Trump plans to withdraw from the Paris climate agreement, defund UN climate programs, and undo Obama's climate action plan.

He said that the "first hopeful thing" was that Trump wants to jump start more fossil fuel production, which he added would be very popular in many parts of the US, away from what he referred to as the "bi-coastal elite."

..."The climate science community is actually quite small and yet I'm amazed by how many people have become public policy experts on the basis of being scientists," he said on Monday. "The expert class is full of arrogance or hubris, and people, at least in this election, have said we've had enough of that."


HOPE? It's fucking insanity.
posted by futz at 8:17 AM on January 31, 2017 [53 favorites]


And, yes, you deal with that by making sure you have enough resources (attention, money, bodies) that you aren't in fact diverting anything in a zero-sum sense.

Yeah like "protest fatigue" there's not really a cure for this other than vigilance. Don't be distracted. If you're feeling fatigued, go home, rest, and come back. Ignoring the ban to pay attention to the "real" issue is also allowing yourself to be distracted.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:17 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


This postpones the votes because the committees do not have a quorum.

They need to make sure to send one senator (two are needed for quorum) to quorum call if they try to proceed without it (and I wouldn't put it past them). Make the United States Capitol Police hunt down the rest.
posted by Talez at 8:17 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


- does this mean that Collins is opposing DeVos in the committee, or that she will vote yea in committee but may vote differently on the floor?

It means Collins is probably going to do the same fucking thing Collins always does, which is swear up and down that she's not going to take the football away at the last second and then take it away at the last second. I would love to be wrong.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:17 AM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


Trump's former EPA transition head has a 'message of hope' about how the government will dismantle environmental policies

'How's that hopey-changey thing working out for you?'

Bannon's iPad strikes again.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:17 AM on January 31, 2017


People don't really mean that it's a distraction in the sense of relative importance on principle. They mean it has potential to be used as a DIVERSION.

I'm having trouble seeing the difference.

When a magician wants to distract you from a move, he doesn't pull out a real pistol and actually shoot an audience member dead.
posted by Etrigan at 8:17 AM on January 31, 2017 [35 favorites]


HOPE? It's fucking insanity.

Audacity.
posted by saturday_morning at 8:18 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


When a magician wants to distract you from a move, he doesn't pull out a real pistol and actually shoot an audience member dead.

That's the difference.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:19 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


she's not going to take the football away at the last second and then take it away at the last second.

She's my Senator. I'm well aware of her issues. However, she's been getting pummeled pretty hard here by the teachers' union and many others. I'm just trying to figure out how she's voting (I can't watch the stream, the decisiondeskhq post is the best I've found.)
posted by anastasiav at 8:20 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


"The expert class is full of arrogance or hubris, and people, at least in this election, have said we've had enough of that."

The Brexit is spreading. It was a bad idea to let anyone come into contact with Gove, but we didn't know he was contagious when we let him leave the country.
posted by jaduncan at 8:20 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


pruitt and anyone who votes for his confirmation should be required to drink, cook, and bathe with nothing but flint water from here on out
posted by entropicamericana at 8:20 AM on January 31, 2017 [40 favorites]


That's the difference.

Which is to day, I think the people who worry about 'distraction' do understand that there are in fact lives and rights at stake here. That's why I think worrying about 'diversion' is more accurate. It's not a distraction.

It's a concern about whether we can respond to everything.

And we can.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:21 AM on January 31, 2017


HOPE? It's fucking insanity.

It's what rebellions are built on.
posted by Mayor West at 8:21 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


The Democratic leadership had better be resisting these appointments. If they don't oppose the appointment of such obvious threats to some of the community, I question what they think they are there for. It's literally the least I could respect.
posted by jaduncan at 8:24 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


and should any paper trail actually exist to become public

Bannon isn't consulting with anyone outside a small circle, so I really doubt he's stupid enough to write things down rather than just talking with that small circle.
posted by jaduncan at 8:26 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Senate Democrats boycott committee votes on Price and Mnuchin

This postpones the votes because the committees do not have a quorum.


Yes! That's what I'm talking about, Senate Dems!
posted by indubitable at 8:27 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


When a magician wants to distract you from a move, he doesn't pull out a real pistol and actually shoot an audience member dead.

When a judoka hits you with atemi, it hurts. Also it helps distract you so you are less likely/able to avoid the impending pin or the chokehold. These aspects are not in tension or contradiction; the pain is the whole fucking reason it works!

The immigration order sucks and hurts real people and competes for our attention with other things that suck and hurt real people. If using the word "distraction" or "diversion" increases infighting then drop it and find another way to characterize what's going on.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:27 AM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


I prefer to characterize it as "one snowflake in an avalanche of bullshit."
posted by Roommate at 8:29 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


That's why I think worrying about 'diversion' is more accurate. It's not a distraction.

It still reeks of smug privilege. It's not a diversion or a distraction or a feint or any other term you want to come up with. It's evil, in and of itself, and telling people that it's actually a different thing is not helping.
posted by Etrigan at 8:29 AM on January 31, 2017 [13 favorites]


While the distraction/diversion language is disturbing, I read TFA and follow-ups differently. As I understood it, the idea is that if Trump/Bannon can get away with this unconstitutional and inhuman stunt, they will feel they can legitimately do more of the same, harming larger and larger groups including millions of American citizens until they have their fantasy fifties USA.

Obviously, there is no feasible economy for that fantasy, but that will only make them double up on the scapegoating and conspiracy mongering, and of course they will seek out the recourse of every failing authoritarian regime: war.
posted by mumimor at 8:29 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


> it is amazing how he is able to stand without a spine

Paul Ryan is Evil, Not Weak
The emerging meme that Paul Ryan is “spineless” gives him far too much credit. It implies that he would like to stand up to Trump but lacks courage. But I have no idea why anyone thinks standing up to Trump is his preference. He’s a full-on Trump supporter and collaborator because Trump can help him fulfill his longtime goals of passing massive upper-class tax cuts and brutalizing the poor: [...]
posted by tonycpsu at 8:31 AM on January 31, 2017 [55 favorites]


Can someone recommend a nice, light ATC-esque morning show to ease into my day that isn't hosted by today's equivalent of Tokyo Rose and Lord Haw-Haw?

Democracy Now! is available in daily podcast format. Not exactly light, but it does fulfill my need for "daily news audio" for times when I have to commute somewhere.
posted by indubitable at 8:32 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]



"The expert class is full of arrogance or hubris, and people, at least in this election, have said we've had enough of that."


Actually, you know what this reminds me of? The Cultural Revolution. There was actually a slogan about bad people who chose the "white (non-communist/bad/etc) road of expertise" instead of the red road of revolution, and that was part of the process by which many people starved and died.

OTOH, it also was instrumental in weakening Mao, the Gang of Four trial, etc, and paving the way for Deng Xiao-Peng's reforms. (Which, frankly, were pretty good ones, as much as he did a lot of bad stuff. Things could have gone totally off the fucking rails in the seventies/early eighties but DXP kept the lights on and managed some improvements. Subsequent leaders have been, IMO, much worse on economic policy.)

Anyway, the point is that if we choose the red road of GOP revolution over expertise, there will be a reckoning and the reds may not like it.
posted by Frowner at 8:32 AM on January 31, 2017 [31 favorites]


As Philip J. Fry said, "A man can sneak off and do two things."
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:33 AM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]




Gettin' primaried

The one thing I will say about the Republicans is that certain groups get to know their representatives will largely hold the line. If nothing else, I'd hope that the leadership know on an amoral level that they can either lock in much of what will soon be a majority minority vote or choose not to. Not resisting hard would be an act of extreme idiocy in even the medium term of politics. If they can't do that, yeah, for political and moral reasons primaries look good.

It's more moral than that, though. It's time to protect the people that the legitimacy of the party partly lies in protecting. As Ivanka Trump quoted, "if not now, when?" I mean, admittedly she cited it as Emma Watson, but you can't have everything. Hillel's point still applies.
posted by jaduncan at 8:35 AM on January 31, 2017


Are there any good live blogs for the confirmation hearings? I know I watched them live last time, but in the mood I'm in I think I'm likely to throw my computer through the TV if I tried.
posted by corb at 8:35 AM on January 31, 2017


Mod note: One deleted. Let's set down the "is the Muslim ban a diversion or some other word" thing -- people have said why this framing is a problem, going around in circles about it isn't gonna move anything forward, enough.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:36 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm watching the Sessions hearing on CNN. Not sure if it is completely synchronous, might be a delay.
posted by archimago at 8:36 AM on January 31, 2017


Reports: Russian cyber spy treason cases linked to CIA

Sergei Mikhailov and Dmitry Dokuchaev, who worked for the cyber wing of Russia's FSB domestic intelligence service until their arrests in December, are accused of cooperating with the CIA, according to unnamed sources cited Tuesday by Interfax news agency.

No officials have publicly commented, but Russian media outlets with links to the security services have reported in detail on the case. An executive from cyber-security firm Kaspersky Lab has also reportedly been arrested on linked treason charges

posted by futz at 8:37 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


The Kaspersky detail came out last week. I think the link to the CIA is new though.
posted by diogenes at 8:41 AM on January 31, 2017


For a laugh:
@ChelseaHandler: The ACLU has received over $24M in donations. That's $1 for everyone who attended trump's inauguration. & then 23.7 million more dollars.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:43 AM on January 31, 2017 [95 favorites]


FUCK. DeVos nom just went forward (ie out of ctte and to the full Senate), 12-11
posted by Westringia F. at 8:45 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Also, consider this. An deescalation of Ukrainian aggression could give cover for Trump to lift sanctions. Of course, there must first be escalation.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:46 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


I really fucking wish that people would abandon the idea of all this shit being distractions for other shit instead of Bannon & co just trying to do as much evil as possible at once. They're not playing chess, they're evil motherfuckers running around with glee now that they finally have power.

From upthread - I'm seeing that Medium article about how the Immigration Ban Is a Headfake - and others like it - all over facebook and it is really pissing me off. I'm so glad people here are pushing back!
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:53 AM on January 31, 2017 [13 favorites]


Why is Trump doing so many EO's over signing bills passed by Congress?
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:54 AM on January 31, 2017


Also, consider this. An deescalation of Ukrainian aggression could give cover for Trump to lift sanctions. Of course, there must first be escalation.

More likely it's just Putin testing the resolve of the alliance as well as checking out what the US response is. Same way that Iran just didn't by testing the ballistic missile the other day. And China upping the rhetoric about war by saying they're preparing for it.
posted by Jalliah at 8:55 AM on January 31, 2017


Why is Trump doing so many EO's over signing bills passed by Congress?

He intends to be dictator, not president.
posted by Zalzidrax at 8:55 AM on January 31, 2017 [32 favorites]


I'd switch to wording that better reflects Trump's lack of control or incompetence, like Bannon's Puppet

Trump is Bannon's Poodle.
posted by HotToddy at 8:57 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Why is Trump doing so many EO's over signing bills passed by Congress?

He wants to be a dictator and GOP Congress is happy to get all of their dream policies without having to actually vote on them (i.e. have accountability).
posted by melissasaurus at 8:57 AM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]


If we could get the news to mostly occur at 4:30 am PST when I wake up in a cold sweat and check the news on my phone, that would be great. As of now, it's kind of a waste of time, believe it or not.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 8:57 AM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


NOTE: I keep getting pleas from red states for people to show up to calls or meetings. Is there anywhere on MeFi I can post this where it might be seen by folks wanting to be active without getting Cortex upset? TIA

The Projects tab. And the IRL tab for events and actions.


Make sure to tell folks here, though, so we know about it. Many of us don't check IRL and projects regularly.
posted by sciatrix at 8:57 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Why is Trump doing so many EO's over signing bills passed by Congress?

Remember when you were a kid and you'd pretend to be an astronaut or a race car driver? You distilled the game down to the most exciting parts. Zoooooooom!

Trump is a seven-year-old pretending to be President.

Zoooooooom!
posted by stolyarova at 8:58 AM on January 31, 2017 [30 favorites]


Ugh, it's so hard to pick which single issue to call/fax/email about when you're drowning in a sea of fetid, hateful political dogshit.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:59 AM on January 31, 2017 [15 favorites]


Why is Trump doing so many EO's over signing bills passed by Congress

Some of it I think is actually that he wants the credit all to himself. If he just signed bills that Congress created, no one would know it was his "magic" that got it done. Plus they would have to actually be somewhat sane.
posted by corb at 8:59 AM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


After meeting with pharma lobbyists, Trump drops promise to negotiate drug prices

"But the President is simply keeping his campaign promises."
posted by notyou at 9:00 AM on January 31, 2017 [33 favorites]


Sophie1 and sciatrix: There's a current MeTa thread about activism, and if you've entered a location, you can set up IRL Mefimail alerts to let you know if there's a meetup within your specified area.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:00 AM on January 31, 2017 [15 favorites]


Trump is a seven-year-old pretending to be President.

So this isn't so much the Producers Presidency as the Axe Cop Presidency?
posted by acb at 9:02 AM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]


Cripes, that crew can't even do populism right. Guys, you're supposed to buy off the masses with easy give aways once in a while!
posted by notyou at 9:02 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Why is Trump doing so many EO's over signing bills passed by Congress?

That's how being king works, isn't it?
posted by Artw at 9:03 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


I have picked my issue to call about. I will be calling my House Rep and asking him to support this bill.

179 House Democrats, led by U.S. Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.) and John Conyers, Jr. (D-Mich.) today introduced legislation to defund and rescind President Donald Trump’s executive order banning travel from Muslim countries and suspending the refugee program.


Find your rep.

This needs to come to a vote. Republicans are trying to keep their heads down, but I want to force them to go on the record as opposed or in favor. Bring this to a vote, and if it doesn't pass, we can at least see who actually supports it and who doesn't. Don't let them hide.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:03 AM on January 31, 2017 [25 favorites]


Two reasons a)it advances the ideal of an imperial presidency, b)it tries to force Dems onto the defensive so they are compliant on legislative priorities.

I think various parts of the Republican caucus realize that their best chance of getting most of what they want is to act fast and keep the Senate from going into full obstruction mode.

The reality is rather than get the left to surrender it's actually forcing the opposite.
posted by vuron at 9:04 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Paul Ryan is Evil, Not Weak
The emerging meme that Paul Ryan is “spineless” gives him far too much credit. It implies that he would like to stand up to Trump but lacks courage. But I have no idea why anyone thinks standing up to Trump is his preference. He’s a full-on Trump supporter and collaborator because Trump can help him fulfill his longtime goals of passing massive upper-class tax cuts and brutalizing the poor: [...]


This. There is quite a lot of overlap in what the Ryan/McConnel/Norquist and the Bannon/Trump camps want to do America, that I see little to no chance of any GOP defections. So far all we've seen are EOs (any one of which could just as easily been legislated), and some confirmation discussions. When the legislative branch gets rolling, it will be hard to keep up with the firehose. Strap in.
posted by jetsetsc at 9:04 AM on January 31, 2017 [16 favorites]


> FUCK. DeVos nom just went forward (ie out of ctte and to the full Senate), 12-11

Spoke too soon; one of those 12's was a proxy vote, which under the rules is not valid for a nomination unless all present members agree, making it 11-11. There is now some argumentation about what is to be done about that.
posted by Westringia F. at 9:04 AM on January 31, 2017 [28 favorites]


Senate Democrats boycott committee votes on Price and Mnuchin

Be sure to call or write to thank the committee members, especially if you're a constituent. Let them know we have their backs. I left an angry message for Warner this morning and wrote just now to thank him for the boycott. Good Senator! You get a cookie!
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:04 AM on January 31, 2017 [18 favorites]




With the EOs, he gets all the attention. Plus, it takes a long time for bills to find their way to his desk. With the EOs, he can control the news cycle in a more significant way than with just another meeting with business tycoons.
posted by notyou at 9:05 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Why is Trump doing so many EO's over signing bills passed by Congress?

Go listen to the Slate link about what he'd do on the 1st day.
posted by rough ashlar at 9:06 AM on January 31, 2017


Professional historians tell me that this is the state-of-the-art book on the rise of the German fascists - The Coming of the Third Reich: How the Nazis Destroyed Democracy and Seized Power in Germany, Richard J. Evans.

It is the textbook on how to take a democratic country which leads the world in culture, technology and science and burn it to the ground in twenty years. It starts with petty criminals using fear and greed to get support from farmers and peasants, in order to get power to hide their crimes, and how the various democratic parties and groups fell in line behind them through fear of losing popular support.

Ten quid on Amazon.
posted by Devonian at 9:06 AM on January 31, 2017 [57 favorites]


> FUCK. DeVos nom just went forward (ie out of ctte and to the full Senate), 12-11

Spoke too soon; one of those 12's was a proxy vote, which under the rules is not valid for a nomination unless all present members agree, making it 11-11. There is now some argumentation about what is to be done about that.


I am 100% in favor of Democrats adopting the "The card says 'Moops'" strategy.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:07 AM on January 31, 2017 [25 favorites]


It starts with petty criminals using fear and greed to get support from farmers and peasants, in order to get power to hide their crimes

Don't we already have state and local governments?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:08 AM on January 31, 2017


> It starts with petty criminals using fear and greed to get support from farmers and peasants, in order to get power to hide their crimes

From upthread:

> Another new rule passed by the House that makes representatives' expenses private and non-discoverable: cite.
Jesus, these guys aren't even pretending to be ethical anymore.

posted by fragmede at 9:12 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


More from the "evil, not weak" department: Do Republicans Remember When They Promised They'd Be A Check On Trump?
House Speaker Paul Ryan: I'd 'Sue' A President Who Exceeded His Constitutional Powers

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell: 'There Will Be Constraints' On Trump

Sen. Marco Rubio: I Will Be 'A Check And Balance On Whoever The President Is'

Sen. Orrin Hatch: I'll 'Ensure A President Trump Toes The Line'

Sen. Pat Toomey: I'll 'Stand Up To Any President's Bad Ideas'

Sen. John McCain: We Have Congress To 'Restrain Someone' Who Exceeds Constitution

Rep. Mike Coffman: 'I’ll stand up to him. Plain and simple.'
posted by tonycpsu at 9:13 AM on January 31, 2017 [71 favorites]


Alexander [Chair of the ed ctte] wants there to be a revote with everyone present. Dems saying this amounts to revoting because they don't like the 11-11 outcome, Sen Murray motions to overrule chair on this, debate is cut off.

Someone on a live mike during the vote to overrule: "this is totally alternative fact."
posted by Westringia F. at 9:14 AM on January 31, 2017 [16 favorites]


Professional historians tell me that this is the state-of-the-art book on the rise of the German fascists - The Coming of the Third Reich: How the Nazis Destroyed Democracy and Seized Power in Germany, Richard J. Evans.

There's also some good recommendations (and history based advice) at:

A Yale history professor’s powerful, 20-point guide to defending democracy under a Trump presidency

In relation to that (para)military convoy with the Trump flag,
17. Watch out for the paramilitaries.

When the men with guns who have always claimed to be against the system start wearing uniforms and marching around with torches and pictures of a Leader, the end is nigh. When the pro-Leader paramilitary and the official police and military intermingle, the game is over.
The extremist right is well aware of the role the Sturmabteilung/Brownshirts and seek to emulate it quite openly, e.g. see the logo of National Action, the organisation the guy who shot MP Jo Cox was a member of.
posted by Buntix at 9:15 AM on January 31, 2017 [31 favorites]


I am 100% in favor of Democrats adopting the "The card says 'Moops'" strategy.


"Wait! Wait! Cancel that…I guess it says 'helf.'"
posted by murphy slaw at 9:16 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


John Kelly just said he wanted to look at your browser history before letting you in the country.
posted by stolyarova at 9:16 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump’s Refugee Ban Is a Betrayal of Iraqis Who Risked Their Lives for Us, commentary by Michael Zacchea, a former U.S. Marine who was awarded two bronze stars for valor and meritorious service in Iraq.

As happy as I am this hero is speaking out, it makes me nostalgic for the time when one could presume Republicans -- which the media constantly presumes is "strong on defense" -- would respect a veteran's service.

Then came John Kerry's run against George W. Bush.

These people are snakes. While the day may come when we might forgive, we must not forget.
posted by Gelatin at 9:17 AM on January 31, 2017 [17 favorites]


Not a professional historian, but I cannot favorite Devonian's rec of The Coming of the Third Reich hard enough.

It's an outstanding book, and it's a big part of why I'm currently putting on my shoes under the desk and going out to personally deliver some mail to my Republican senator as part of Tuesdays with Toomey.

We must hold the so-called center accountable.
posted by joyceanmachine at 9:17 AM on January 31, 2017 [20 favorites]


The extremist right is well aware of the role the Sturmabteilung/Brownshirts and seek to emulate it quite openly

Do they know what happened to them?
posted by thelonius at 9:17 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


John Kelly just said he wanted to look at your browser history before letting you in the country.

Has anyone tried to FOIA the browser history of a congressperson yet?
posted by rough ashlar at 9:18 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


I just called my Senator (Mark Warner 202-224-2023) for the first time ever! For an introvert like me that's exciting and scary. I got through to a staffer and told her that I was proud of him for boycotting the committee vote, and that I expected him to continue to oppose Trump and that I hoped they would treat any SC nominees the same way Garland was treated. She thanked me and said she would pass that along to the Senator.

Now to get out of the house and protest!
posted by BigVACub at 9:19 AM on January 31, 2017 [30 favorites]


But what scares me is that these fascist policies and bigoted ideas have real social support.

They undoubtedly do, but I am heartened by seeing how much the opposite is true too, especially outside of deep blue areas. We really do outnumber them.


Yes we do. The Republican Party is acting like this is their last, best shot to ruin the nation implement their agenda for a reason. A party that is confident of its broad popularity doesn't need to indulge in voter suppression tactics.

Or play footsie with the Russians.
posted by Gelatin at 9:20 AM on January 31, 2017 [17 favorites]


I think I have just reached the end of my rope. The DeVos thing has broken me.

If Collins had simply voted no instead of this hair-splitting bullshittery, DeVos' nom would have ended in committee and that would have been that. Now, as it stands, Collins gets to vote nay on the floor and say she voted "against" and DeVos gets to be SecEd anyhow, because there simply are not enough votes against in the Senate.

I have a son. He's the light of my life. He is brilliant and funny and a shining star. He wants to be a paleontologist. He wants to study science, and help us understand how the world was formed. He's ten. He has autism and adhd and disgraphia and a bundle of other issues, but with help from his amazing public school he is able to reach is full potential. And probably soon, very soon, not only will he not be able to get an education, but he also won't be able to get healthcare, because autism is a pre-existing condition.

I cannot protect him from these people. I cannot keep him safe. It doesn't matter how many calls I make or how much I march -- I cannot keep him safe.

I want to be clear that we are a white family living in a very, very blue city. We are not really in any danger. But then I think about the class photo that he brought home last week, with his classmates who were born -- literally -- all over the world. His class photo represents every race, every settled continent. It is my job to protect those children with the same ferocity as I protect and fight for my own. Lots of them are in more danger than he is, and are even more desperately in need of a high quality public education, and health care... and a safe place to live. Lots of them are refugees, coming from the very countries currently named as 'dangerous'.

But apparently, nobody gives a shit about those kids, or any kids, anywhere, any more. Nobody but me and the other moms and dads, and apparently we don't count to the people that we elected to represent us. We can march all we want, yell all we want, call all we want -- nobody is fucking listening.

I would very much like to leave the country, but we can't afford passports, and where would we go anyhow? I very much doubt we'd be approved to emigrate anywhere. So we're stuck here.

Anyway, there really isn't a point to this except that I am now not only out of evens, I am also out of fucks. Getting arrested or fired from my job won't help my family, so I'll endeavor to function at levels that keep me from doing those things. But I don't know much beyond that what I'll do.

This morning when I woke up there was a tiny shred of hope left in my heart. Its gone. It melted away like the last sliver of ice in the lake as the fire consumes the forest.
posted by anastasiav at 9:20 AM on January 31, 2017 [153 favorites]


are aware that extremists have infiltrated state and local law enforcement agencies

It's not infiltration if the agencies in question know about it. And tbf, that's good reporting from The Intercept, reminding us how policing in parts of the US is grounded in the history of slave patrols. The structural problems of Too Many Damn Police Forces, all with their own standards and command structure, are going to get a lot worse before they get better.

"Some of those that work forces / are the same that burn crosses."
posted by holgate at 9:20 AM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


That React logo sure looks like it might be atom bomb plans...

I think I'm going to not be flying home for the duration.
posted by Artw at 9:21 AM on January 31, 2017


I mentioned the Lock her up thing this morning as well, in the previous thread. I'm worried that he will justify it to himself as being popular with his base. That always did seem to get the biggest reaction from his rallies.

That's okay, NPR assures me it was all about economic anxiety, not sexism or racism.
posted by Gelatin at 9:22 AM on January 31, 2017 [21 favorites]


Someone definitely got to Kelly. He is onboard for the entire EO, said that people knew what was in it long before it was signed.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:24 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Anyway, there really isn't a point to this except that I am now not only out of evens, I am also out of fucks. Getting arrested or fired from my job won't help my family, so I'll endeavor to function at levels that keep me from doing those things. But I don't know much beyond that what I'll do.

This morning when I woke up there was a tiny shred of hope left in my heart. Its gone. It melted away like the last sliver of ice in the lake as the fire consumes the forest.
posted by anastasiav at 1:20 AM on February 1 [6 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]

No! Not now! Not today!

You've got a message in your inbox.
posted by saysthis at 9:25 AM on January 31, 2017 [23 favorites]


I never really thought of Game of Thrones as a near future dystopia before.

"Summer is coming."
posted by Coventry at 9:25 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


The Ryan "spineless" link upthread is correct as far as it goes, but it still doesn't go far enough:
The emerging meme that Paul Ryan is “spineless” gives him far too much credit. It implies that he would like to stand up to Trump but lacks courage. But I have no idea why anyone thinks standing up to Trump is his preference. He’s a full-on Trump supporter and collaborator because Trump can help him fulfill his longtime goals of passing massive upper-class tax cuts and brutalizing the poor. ... Ryan does have serious principles. He is deeply committed to the principle of liberating the affluent from the burdens of progressive taxation. ... As long as Trump is willing to sign what Ryan and McConnell put on his desk, he’ll have their full support. Not because Ryan and McConnell are cowardly, but because Trump is useful to them and their substantively horrible and deeply unpopular agenda.
This suggests that rather than opposing Trump's actions but lacking the spine to stand up to them, Ryan in fact is callously indifferent as long as he gets his tax-cutting bills passed. But this too is wrong. Ryan may appear primarily dedicated to pro-rich tax cuts, and may even think of himself in that way, but that is mistaken. These things all stick together, and you can't spend 20 years dedicated to rolling back policies for the poor, attacking the under-privileged, and pushing through tea party policies without having opinions about those things. More empirically, Ryan has supported a variety of anti-poor legislative actions that have no connection to tax cuts (since they account for very little revenue, and in any case deficits don't matter where tax cuts are concerned). No, the truth is that Ryan is neither spineless nor indifferent -- like all successful Republicans these days, in his heart of hearts he supports punishing immigrants, (black) criminals and welfare recipients, LGBT folks, the "lazy" poor, and all the rest. He's just a garden-variety hatful Republican who simply supports what Trump is doing, and thus has no reason to oppose it. And he's no different than hundreds of silent "centrist" Republicans throughout Congress and state and local governments. They have been preaching hate for decades and they believe it. I'd say judge them by their actions and not their words, but heck, Ryan is becoming increasingly explicit in his words too. Scratch a "passively racist" Trump voter and you are likely to find an active racist. This goes double for career Republicans, especially snakes like Ryan.
posted by chortly at 9:26 AM on January 31, 2017 [19 favorites]


I am 100% in favor of Democrats adopting the "The card says 'Moops'" strategy.

I am also in favor of the Democrats flooping the pig.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 9:26 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


Doug Jones, Balloon Juice: The four people you meet in Hell
A few years ago I did a post about the three different kinds of conservatives in the media. I decided they were:
  1. “Atlas Shrugged” conservatives: Megan McArdle, the Reasonoids, Larry Kudlow, etc.
  2. “Chronicles Of Narnia” conservatives: Ross Douthat, Peggy Noonan, many other Catholic conservatives.
  3. “300” conservatives: Victor David Hanson, war bloggers, any neoconservatives.
I thought it might be time to revisit this classification in the age of Trump. [...]
  1. Narnians: Peggy Noonan, Rod Dreher (supporters); Ross Douthat (enabler). These are folks who believe that the United States is first and foremost a magical Christian nation. Therefore, Trump is at best Aslan and at worst a boob who was brought to power by left-wing excesses.
  2. Narcissists: Megan McArdle, Charles Lane, Frank Bruni, Nick Kristof. These self-styled centrists can’t let their beautiful minds be consumed by partisanship, so they have to spend as much or more criticizing impolite protesters and the Oberlin student council as they do criticizing Trump. Show business kids making movies of themself, you know they don’t give a fuck about anybody else. It pains me to leave Ron Fournier off this list, but he’s been very tough on Trump.
  3. Nihilists: Bob Woodward, most Republican elected officials, everyone who works at Axios. The nihilists have no political convictions, they only care about access and power. If you haven’t noticed, B Dub is all the way in the tank for Trump. Republican elected officials would give Satan a rim job if it killed the Great Society. Axios has already run a great deal of Satan-sponsored content.
  4. Neo-Nazis: Marc Thiessen, everyone at Breitbart. Needs no explanation. Say what you want about their tenets…
posted by tonycpsu at 9:29 AM on January 31, 2017 [34 favorites]


When the men with guns who have always claimed to be against the system start wearing uniforms and marching around with torches and pictures of a Leader, the end is nigh. When the pro-Leader paramilitary and the official police and military intermingle, the game is over.

They've been doing this for years. The Oathkeepers, for example, include former and current military personnel. Dudes threateningly pacing around in tactical gear and semi-autos outside mosques, women's health clinics, and into black neighborhoods has happened for years. There's been nary a peep from the 2A community against it.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:29 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]




I haven't seen this posted yet (my apologies if I've missed it in this or the last few threads) but this commercial urging people to call their senators to confirm Jeff Sessions as AG has been running here in Florida for a couple days. I hope they really are shook.
posted by hollygoheavy at 9:29 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


After meeting with pharma lobbyists, Trump drops promise to negotiate drug prices

Just as we learn of a lawsuit accusing the three makers of insulin of price-fixing in order to kick back proceeds to pharmacy benefit managers, something already suspected by people who'd seen the prices of all insulin brands rise simultaneously over the past year.
posted by holgate at 9:30 AM on January 31, 2017 [17 favorites]


Oh, bullshit! Kelly just said that the people who were "inconvenienced" were treated with "dignity and respect."

Tell that to the five-year-old you kept from his mother. Tell that to the mother and two children who were held for twenty hours without food. Tell that to the Iranian grandmother who was held without food for nine hours.
posted by stolyarova at 9:30 AM on January 31, 2017 [56 favorites]


Looks like Trump's NSA Michael Flynn deleted his Twit account sometime in that last 24 hours.
posted by futz at 9:33 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


I was trying to order The Coming of the Third Reich through Amazon (second hand)

it's backordered
posted by Tarumba at 9:34 AM on January 31, 2017 [10 favorites]


I haven't seen this posted yet (my apologies if I've missed it in this or the last few threads) but this commercial yt urging people to call their senators to confirm Jeff Sessions as AG has been running here in Florida for a couple days. I hope they really are shook.

We're getting ones for Price here in PA. Like Trump's not bad enough, he has to bombard us with political ads outside election season.
posted by dirigibleman at 9:34 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


A party that is confident of its broad popularity doesn't need to indulge in voter suppression tactics.

This is, I'm sure, what's behind all of the "suck it up, buttercup" "you lost, stop whining" shite on social media. If we stfu, then they can start enjoying it, sit there like little kings signing their horrible Nazi laws into action. But people everywhere didn't stfu. We aren't going to stfu. We're going to keep "whining" and kicking and you ruined Trumpz inauguration for him, and on this side of the Atlantic I'm very sure we'll ruin his State visit and It's pissing them off.
posted by threetwentytwo at 9:34 AM on January 31, 2017 [45 favorites]


you ruined Trumpz inauguration for him

Maybe if they'd bothered to show up.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:36 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


From twitter: @Hegemommy: So did they just leak the SCOTUS announcement by still not understanding Twitter? https://twitter.com/JusticeNGorsuch
posted by pixie at 9:49 AM on January 31, 2017 [13 favorites]


Well, that's it: the ctte revoted, and the DeVos nomination has been recommended to the Senate.
posted by Westringia F. at 9:50 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


From twitter: @hegemony: So did they just leak the SCOTUS announcement by still not understanding Twitter? https://twitter.com/JusticeNGorsuch

No. There's also one for Hardiman, at least.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:51 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


...Not with a bang, but a "whaddya gonna do?"
posted by tonycpsu at 9:52 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


From twitter: @hegemony: So did they just leak the SCOTUS announcement by still not understanding Twitter? https://twitter.com/JusticeNGorsuch

In the replies someone notes there's also https://twitter.com/JusticeHardiman because what is the Supreme Court if not a game show.
posted by zempf at 9:52 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Pixie... that's ridiculous. Yes, the answer is yes.
posted by samthemander at 9:52 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


I was trying to order The Coming of the Third Reich through Amazon (second hand)

it's backordered


I reread Evans' Coming when Trump won the nomination and while it's great it doesn't really illuminate much about our present situation. The 21st century American context is radically different than the Weimar era. The most you can learn to really apply to the present is that people are fucking monsters.
posted by dis_integration at 9:52 AM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


In the replies someone notes there's also https://twitter.com/JusticeHardiman because what is the Supreme Court if not a game show.

Wait, it should be noted that Hardiman's isn't locked and doesn't have his first initial.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:53 AM on January 31, 2017


oh! saner heads than mine prevail.
posted by samthemander at 9:53 AM on January 31, 2017


CNN Hires Hack Trump Advisor to Spout Gibberish About Economics

It's The Steves' world, we just live in it.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:55 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


I think I've called my Congresswoman and Senators more in the past few days than I have over the past 10 years.

The staff are always very nice and appreciative of feedback. Also, my kids now think I'm very important because of all the 'thank you for your feedback' letters we're getting from Congress.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:55 AM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]




MikeRUnderwood:
Sally Yates' house.
*Knock at the door.*
It's Barack Obama. W/an eye patch.
Obama: I'm here to talk to you about the Avengers Initiative.
posted by nicebookrack at 9:59 AM on January 31, 2017 [40 favorites]


Why is Trump doing so many EO's over signing bills passed by Congress?

He can't achieve his campaign promises by cooperation with Congress. I'm skeptical about whether he can achieve them at all, but it's always been clear that he'd have to do some kind of end run around their control of budget and legislation.
posted by Coventry at 10:02 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]



I was trying to order The Coming of the Third Reich through Amazon (second hand)

it's backordered


I tried too. Only second hand back orders. Decided to check out the 'free' way and the two places I found it at can't be accessed due to high traffic.
posted by Jalliah at 10:05 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


i feel like reality is bifurcating before my eyes. i'm scheduling business travel in march and making vacation plans for my daughter's spring break in april and i have to proceed as if the status quo will maintain long enough for those plans to come to fruition, but every day that seems more and more unlikely.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:08 AM on January 31, 2017 [29 favorites]


Spicer is briefing
posted by zachlipton at 10:10 AM on January 31, 2017


I'm travelling overseas this weekend and I am sick to my stomach about it. What will I come back to?
posted by ian1977 at 10:11 AM on January 31, 2017


... and how's your social media presence?
posted by ODiV at 10:12 AM on January 31, 2017


I always get a [shameful] kick from seeing Union members and leadership cheer-leading for right wing populists. They aren't great students of history and the look of incomprehension on their faces when the populist turns around and shucks them like shellfish is [shamefully] delightful.

Like a dog when you pretend to throw a ball and they run and run then "no ball" or the smaller bully who tosses a few kicks at the target, he might know that when they are done with the kid in glasses his "friends" will turn on him, but for now, he's doing the kicking.

What motivates this? Fear or Self-Interest. Masochism?

I have to keep pointing out to my dad that the Right Wing HATES and FEARS him, because he always ends up taking their side (and he's a union member)

Shameful Delight.
posted by NiteMayr at 10:12 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


What will I come back to?

Protests, blunders and walkbacks, general incompetence.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:13 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


I have all these bricks all of a sudden, and an appointment with the proctologist.
posted by Tarumba at 10:13 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


i feel like reality is bifurcating before my eyes. i'm scheduling business travel in march and making vacation plans for my daughter's spring break in april and i have to proceed as if the status quo will maintain long enough for those plans to come to fruition, but every day that seems more and more unlikely.

It was the realization that we are scheduling our board game night around all of the protests that did it for me.
posted by dinty_moore at 10:16 AM on January 31, 2017 [25 favorites]


Why is Trump doing so many EO's over signing bills passed by Congress?

Same reasons Obama did. Same reason any president does. (Interesting to see that they were particularly popular in the first part of the twentieth century.)
posted by IndigoJones at 10:16 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


So this Op that got the seal killed, civilians and the little girl that was US citizen looks like it may blow up more then it has already. It's looking more and more like a total cock-up. Trumpco has mumbled that it was just them going through with an Obama op but word is going around that this is a lie. Not that we should be surprised. I'm trying to track the sources on this.
But the implications are that the intel was bad or uncertain and instead of waiting he rushed it through in less then a week.
posted by Jalliah at 10:19 AM on January 31, 2017 [43 favorites]


#tuesdayswithtoomey is what Democracy looks like today.

I still haven't been able to go in person, but for now I content myself to be TwT-PGH Chief Data Entry Wrangler and IT Support Analyst, Assistant Questions Posed on Facebook Answerer, and Self-Appointed Nice White Lady Radicalizer.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:19 AM on January 31, 2017 [11 favorites]


I had to wait for my copy of The Origins of Totalitarianism because it was back ordered. Seems some of us "coastal intellectuals" are re-building their real life libraries.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:19 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trumpco has mumbled that it was just them going through with an Obama op but probably word is going around that that was a lie.

It sounds like they tried to repeat the Osama raid without proper preparation - possibly part of the shock and awe campaign?
posted by Artw at 10:21 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]



Found the lie part: SEAL, American Girl Die in First Trump-Era U.S. Military Raid

Contrary to earlier reporting, the senior military official said, the raid was Trump's first clandestine strike — not a holdover mission approved by President Barack Obama. The mission involved "boots on the ground" at an al Qaeda camp near al Bayda in south central Yemen, the official said.

"Almost everything went wrong," the official said.

posted by Jalliah at 10:24 AM on January 31, 2017 [44 favorites]


Just as we learn of a lawsuit accusing the three makers of insulin of price-fixing in order to kick back proceeds to pharmacy benefit managers, something already suspected by people who'd seen the prices of all insulin brands rise simultaneously over the past year.

As someone with diabetes who wondered for years how a drug invented in 1922 had a sticker price so high that half the time the pharmacy clerk ringing me up would be shocked at how much I was paying, but there were no cheaper alternatives, even reading the PDF of the lawsuit linked to in that article is quite interesting.

(For anyone else struggling with the cost of insulin, the solution I found is that Walmart has access to some sort of warp zone that lets them get around U.S. market prices and their pharmacies sell several kinds of insulin under the brand "Novolin" that are inexplicably far cheaper to buy directly, without insurance. It doesn't require a prescription to buy but I'd assume that you'd want to talk to your doctor before switching brands or types of insulin.)
posted by XMLicious at 10:24 AM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


New legislation requiring H1-B visa holders to make at least $130k, more than double of its current requirement

The shares of top Indian IT companies sank Tuesday in response to news of proposed U.S. legislation that would require salaries for H-1B visa holders to be doubled. The aim: to make it harder for companies to replace American workers with those from countries like India.
posted by futz at 10:25 AM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


On the continuing WTF NPR train, APM's Marketplace journalist Lewis Wallace wrote a medium post a few days ago titled "Objectivity is dead, and I'm ok with it" about "how we must change what we are doing to adapt to a government that believes in “alternative facts” and thrives on lies", and was promptly fired for it.
posted by DynamiteToast at 10:25 AM on January 31, 2017 [24 favorites]


Mod note: Couple comments deleted. I appreciate the effort but really, digging back in on exactly the pros and cons of the previously-debated "it's a headfake" article isn't a useful direction. If folks want to talk about the many bad things worth paying attention to, that's fine.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:25 AM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


"Almost everything went wrong," the official said.

Truly, a mantra for our times.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:25 AM on January 31, 2017 [47 favorites]


Spicer is now claiming "it's not a travel ban" because lots of other people who aren't banned are still coming into the country. Apparently, he would only accept the term "travel ban" if literally all travel was banned.
posted by zachlipton at 10:25 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


FUCK. DeVos nom just went forward (ie out of ctte and to the full Senate), 12-11

Feinstein's mailboxes are all full and all of Harris' mailboxes are full but one. There's a single surly staffer picking up the phone at the LA office, but when asked how Senator Harris intends to vote on DeVos (per deludingmyself's excellent script) she said the senator didn't know she would vote, because the committee vote had just happened. WTeverlovingF??? How can she not know yet? Were the hearing snippets I've been seeing all over the web retroactively classified? What else is there to know?

I was too annoyed to push politely, so I just said I'd call again later. Jam those lines, y'all.

(Apparently it's possible to leverage anxieties against each other, because my typical anxiety about talking to strangers has succumbed to my even greater anxiety about living under a kleptocratic kakistocracy. So, um, yay?)
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 10:25 AM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


It's an incredible fuck up. Under any other admin heads would be rolling. They just made Anwar al Awaki immortal and sympathetic, and images of his kid will be driving terrorist causes for decades.
posted by Artw at 10:26 AM on January 31, 2017 [33 favorites]



I don't know how these things work in practice. As the article states Mattis was at a social event while this was occurring. Questions are out there as to why he was there and not where ever 'there' is while it was happening. No idea if it's normal for the Sec Def to have involvement while an Op like this is going on.

Anyone know?
posted by Jalliah at 10:28 AM on January 31, 2017


The aim: to make it harder for companies to replace American workers with those from countries like India.

Won't the companies just off shore then?
posted by drezdn at 10:28 AM on January 31, 2017 [10 favorites]


Timothy Snyder: His election that November came as a surprise…
The terrorist attack came as a surprise. It was unclear whether he planned this himself, but it hardly mattered. He blamed the left, banned its parties, and had its leaders put in camps. A state of emergency was declared and never lifted. A one-party state emerged. The division of powers vanished. The parliament became a rubber stamp. The bureaucracy proved loyal to him. Bright and ambitious men with law degrees were found. For many lawyers and judges, professional ethics were somehow submerged in an understanding of the greater good of the nation, state, or race.
posted by monospace at 10:29 AM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


Where are you guys getting local phone numbers for the senators? I can only find the DC offices for Feinstein and Harris. I even did a metafilter search and it didn't turn anything useful up.
posted by zug at 10:32 AM on January 31, 2017


I fucking hate the press interviewing Spicer.
posted by defenestration at 10:32 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


idiot is what we called GWB II. We need stronger words.

If it helps, I retweeted Trump's asinine excuse for not giving a week's notice for the travel ban (i.e., "the "bad" would rush into our country during that week") with the words, "You, sir, are an idiot who surpasses all other idiots by the sheer magnitude of your idiocy."

I still thought I'd drawn it mild.
posted by orange swan at 10:32 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Anyone know?

You mean this sort of thing? They don't have time to hang around like that when there are American citizens, green card holders and refugees to persecute.
posted by Artw at 10:32 AM on January 31, 2017


It's an incredible fuck up. Under any other admin heads would be rolling. They just made Anwar al Awaki immortal and sympathetic, and images of his kid will be driving terrorist causes for decades.

Trump repeatedly said he would kill the families of terrorists and that the military would not refuse him
. This sat very well with his supporters. I guarantee the administration and its supporters are happy an 8 year old was killed. The fact that she was a US citizen doesn't matter to them at all (and we can thank prior administrations for normalizing the extrajudicial killings of US citizens).
posted by jedicus at 10:33 AM on January 31, 2017 [50 favorites]


Won't the companies just off shore then?

Yes. Google/FB/Microsoft aren't going to stop wanting the cream of India's* CS courses, and neither is anyone else. None of the tech giants are in a position where they are going to let talent get sucked by competitors. Bigger campuses in the states where the engineers are is a bit of a no-brainer.

It does of course mean said engineers won't be paying US taxes or setting up startups in the Valley, but omlette/eggs/Trump-is-an-idiot-and-Bannon-hates-the-modern-world.

*insert state of choice.
posted by jaduncan at 10:34 AM on January 31, 2017 [11 favorites]


The latest in Rally-wear
posted by shothotbot at 10:35 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


And it's happened again - Bomb threats at multiple JCCs today. Salt Lake City, UT, La Jolla CA, New Haven, CT, West Orange NJ, Syracuse, NY, Albany, NY and Boulder, CO. Possibly more (news is still breaking as case by case).
posted by Mchelly at 10:35 AM on January 31, 2017 [42 favorites]


Spicer is now claiming "it's not a travel ban" because lots of other people who aren't banned are still coming into the country. Apparently, he would only accept the term "travel ban" if literally all travel was banned.

And Trump himself called it a ban. Spicer is now arguing it's a "vetting system," not a "ban."

Spicer, showing no awareness Merrick Garland happened whatsoever: "The confirmation process is, the default is that if you're qualified for the position you should be confirmed, not the other way around. Most Democrats understand that having a court that is not fully operational is not the political fight to have." AAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH.
posted by zachlipton at 10:35 AM on January 31, 2017 [19 favorites]


I never bought the Greenwaldian defense of Anwar Al Awaki. That guy was a motherfucker regardless of nationality and I am glad that he is dead. But this just makes no sense and is stupid, and makes us all less safe.
posted by Artw at 10:35 AM on January 31, 2017


zug: "Where are you guys getting local phone numbers for the senators? I can only find the DC offices for Feinstein and Harris. I even did a metafilter search and it didn't turn anything useful up."

They are listed on their websites usually: here is Feinstein's and the ones for Harris are listed at the bottom of her site here.
posted by erratic meatsack at 10:36 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Spicer says that Trump is calling it a ban because that's what the media is calling it.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:36 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


As the article states Mattis was at a social event while this was occurring. Questions are out there as to why he was there and not where ever 'there' is while it was happening. No idea if it's normal for the Sec Def to have involvement while an Op like this is going on.

Given that it's popular-imagination Seal Team 6 and we are also hearing that Trump maybe rushed the op, I would lay money on Trump not thinking he needed to involve Mattis, and just wanting a quick "propaganda victory" to take the heat off him with the executive orders. If I had access, I would lay money now on at some point the words "Obama just ordered them to do stuff!" being moaned whinily by Herr Trump.
posted by corb at 10:36 AM on January 31, 2017 [16 favorites]


i will not send any more money to npr until they decide to grow a spine. (so basically, never again)

please consider shifting your donations to propublica or democracy now, and sending npr an email explaining what you are doing and why
posted by entropicamericana at 10:36 AM on January 31, 2017 [15 favorites]


Where are you guys getting local phone numbers for the senators? I can only find the DC offices for Feinstein and Harris. I even did a metafilter search and it didn't turn anything useful up.

zug, check your memail.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 10:37 AM on January 31, 2017


zug:

Feinstein

Harris (at the very, very bottom of the page)
posted by anastasiav at 10:38 AM on January 31, 2017


Where are you guys getting local phone numbers for the senators?

From their websites. For example, Debbie Stabenow's (MI) are in the bottom of every page, but you have to hover over each branch location in order to get the number. Where as Gary Peters (MI) has his own dedicated page.
posted by INFJ at 10:39 AM on January 31, 2017


From article about protest crackdowns.

Heath Montgomery, a spokesperson for [Denver International], told a local reporter that the regulation is intended to protect airport patrons’ safety. “We have to ensure that people who use this airport are safe and able to go about their business uninterrupted and that’s going to remain our focus,” he said.

We must keep the trains on time.
posted by NorthernLite at 10:39 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


ATTENTION: THE ACLU IS COLLABORATING WITH Y COMBINATOR.

PETER THIEL AND MARK ANDRESEN ARE HEAVILY INVOLVED WITH Y COMBINATOR.
posted by Yowser at 10:39 AM on January 31, 2017


Possibly more

Milwaukee had one today, too.
posted by drezdn at 10:40 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


ATTENTION: THE ACLU IS COLLABORATING WITH Y COMBINATOR.

If you're referring to this, Y Combinator is helping out the ACLU, not the other way around.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 10:43 AM on January 31, 2017 [11 favorites]


Spicer is cracking. He's insisted it's not a "ban," and then himself called it a "ban." And he blames the press for the fact that the President himself called it a "ban" in his tweet, as if reporters can decide what words the President uses. He's angry and starting to break.
posted by zachlipton at 10:43 AM on January 31, 2017 [45 favorites]


Given that it's popular-imagination Seal Team 6 and we are also hearing that Trump maybe rushed the op, I would lay money on Trump not thinking he needed to involve Mattis, and just wanting a quick "propaganda victory" to take the heat off him with the executive orders. If I had access, I would lay money now on at some point the words "Obama just ordered them to do stuff!" being moaned whinily by Herr Trump.

They already did moan that. And now a military came out and said it didn't have anything to do with Obama and was all Trump.
I can't see this sort of shit going over well in military circles, especially if Mattis was left out. From what I read yesterday people were cautious about Trump and would continue to be unless he started ordering stupid risky shit that would get our buddies killed.

You probably know much better then I how this would be looked at from their POV.
posted by Jalliah at 10:44 AM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


He's getting crushed there. The press isn't buying it.
posted by azpenguin at 10:44 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Spicer is asked about Trump's previous statements about taking out terrorists' families. He ducks the question.
posted by zachlipton at 10:45 AM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


I feel like I already know the answer to this unfortunately, but what are the chances that the house oversight committee or some other body investigates the botched op a la Benghazi? (Or you know, a normal investigation that's actually their job)
posted by TwoWordReview at 10:46 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


As the article states Mattis was at a social event while this was occurring. Questions are out there as to why he was there and not where ever 'there' is while it was happening. No idea if it's normal for the Sec Def to have involvement while an Op like this is going on.

In general, it depends how big the op is. It's not like SecDef gets out of bed every time someone kicks in a door. I doubt this mission started out as 'let's whack the kids', but it's a two chopper raid of a very high value target's family. I could imagine it either way, and I'd make a no-special-knowledge guess that some form of high level SOCOM contingent were handling it while Mattis was at the event with instructions to contact him if it all went tits up. Which it did, and he then turned up. Aside from the monumental level of screwup that appears to have occurred and/or RoEs that allow shooting kids, it's relatively normal looking at it in purely chain of command terms. Remember, Mattis isn't directly military these days.
posted by jaduncan at 10:46 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


correct horse battery staple, Sean! correct horse battery staple! You can do it!
posted by maudlin at 10:46 AM on January 31, 2017 [11 favorites]


"There are no American troops in Baghdad. "
posted by MattWPBS at 10:47 AM on January 31, 2017


n general, it depends how big the op is. It's not like SecDef gets out of bed every time someone kicks in a door. I doubt this mission started out as 'let's whack the kids', but it's a two chopper raid of a very high value target's family. I could imagine it either way, and I'd make a no-special-knowledge guess that some form of high level SOCOM contingent were handling it while Mattis was at the event with instructions to contact him if it all went tits up. Which it did, and he then turned up. Aside from the monumental level of screwup that appears to have occurred and/or RoEs that allow shooting kids, it's relatively normal looking at it in purely chain of command terms. Remember, Mattis isn't directly military these days.

Awesome. Thanks.
posted by Jalliah at 10:48 AM on January 31, 2017


And it's happened again - Bomb threats at multiple JCCs today. Salt Lake City, UT, La Jolla CA, New Haven, CT, West Orange NJ, Syracuse, NY, Albany, NY and Boulder, CO. Possibly more (news is still breaking as case by case).

These threats are some incredibly sick shit. We (non-Jewish people) should probably call/email/contact local synagogues to voice support for our Jewish friends, family, and neighbors. Antisemitism is baked into this so-called administration, and we must oppose it.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:48 AM on January 31, 2017 [28 favorites]


I feel like I already know the answer to this unfortunately, but what are the chances that the house oversight committee or some other body investigates the botched op a la Benghazi?

Let's just say that Slim has left town.
posted by Etrigan at 10:48 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


Spicer: "No American citizen will ever be targeted."
posted by zachlipton at 10:49 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


The thing this is doing for me is that since I am on the phone now multiple times a day talking to my increasingly surly congressman and senators staff, I am becoming BRAVE AND FEARLESS about talking on the phone.

Soon I will be able to call for takeout in a voice like a brazen gong, thick with confidence and stuff.
posted by winna at 10:50 AM on January 31, 2017 [111 favorites]


Boy, he bailed in a hurry.
posted by azpenguin at 10:50 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Damn it, the Lewis Wallace firing kills me because for months now Marketplace has been the one public radio program I could count on to call out the inconsistencies/unsupported claims/outright lies of Trump et al. I specifically pledged support to APM rather than NPR because of it.
posted by Flannery Culp at 10:50 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


My overly long comment about the headfake article among those deleted in the course of moderation and I'm sort of bummed out about that. You are loved and appreciated, LobsterMitten.

I'm going to go take a walk to clear my head. It is probably good if folks do that same thing when they're getting emotionally invested in a metafilter thread. I am not sure what is a useful direction for this thread to take, and perhaps a break will help me figure that out.
posted by enfa at 10:50 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Oh man I am bummed the CSPAN feed just cut after Spicer fled. Sounded like things were about to pop off with the press.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:51 AM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


These threats are some incredibly sick shit. We (non-Jewish people) should probably call local/email/contact synagogues to voice support for our Jewish friends, family, and neighbors. Antisemitism is baked into this so-called administration, and we must oppose it.

Yes. Mosques and Muslim community centers, too. Probably Sikhs as well, since the American Nazis think they're Muslims. The time may soon come when we need to be protecting these places with our bodies 24/7.
posted by biogeo at 10:52 AM on January 31, 2017 [15 favorites]


Spicer: "No American citizen will ever be targeted."

"It will totally be an accident."
posted by XMLicious at 10:52 AM on January 31, 2017 [16 favorites]


I started to post thoughts and feelings and they got long, so I posted them at my blog. TL;DR version: I am so fucking tired.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:54 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Spicer says that Trump is calling it a ban because that's what the media is calling it.

Well if THAT is the case, has "the media" thought of calling Trump Not the President?
posted by rough ashlar at 10:54 AM on January 31, 2017 [23 favorites]



I feel like I already know the answer to this unfortunately, but what are the chances that the house oversight committee or some other body investigates the botched op a la Benghazi?


It's the same as the answer to "Is there a Clinton in charge?"
posted by drezdn at 10:56 AM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


Wasn't the little girl killed in the raid an American citizen?
posted by rocket at 10:56 AM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


Just got back from Philadelphia's Tuesdays with Toomey! It was the first time I've actually made it, and I'm so happy I did, despite the fact that it was pretty painfully cold out there. This week's topic was the repeal of the ACA and there were...a couple hundred people, at least. I got there crazy-early and was terrified that I'd be standing there alone or something, but twenty minutes before the stated start time, there were easily a hundred people already there.

It was fantastic to see such a huge number of people turn out. My favorite is the signs that are clearly made out of anything to hand -- the top of a takeout container, a shoebox. (Someone made a giant rubber stamp out of cardboard which was amazing.) Everyone was super-friendly and fired up, and there were a couple of middle-aged ladies who would start chants and just -- it was hopeful, and positive and empowering, with lots of encouragement to call people, etc. I'm really excited about next week's, too!

(For the record, it was a relatively light police presence, and my friend caught them cheering at a few of the speakers. Also, even more amazingly since Philadelphia, no one was a dick about us filling the sidewalk and part of the street itself.)
posted by kalimac at 10:56 AM on January 31, 2017 [22 favorites]





And it's happened again - Bomb threats at multiple JCCs today. Salt Lake City, UT, La Jolla CA, New Haven, CT, West Orange NJ, Syracuse, NY, Albany, NY and Boulder, CO. Possibly more (news is still breaking as case by case).


Is there any word on investigations into this?
posted by Jalliah at 10:58 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


If anyone is lacking for courage/red-hot-rage when they call their respective congresscritters, let me suggest you queue this up in between calls. Also useful if you find yourself apathetic about the outcome of the election, or need a non-pharmaceutical way to correct your hypotension. [real, but if you've read this far, listening to this song will probably cause a red veil of rage to cover your vision]
posted by Mayor West at 10:58 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


My hyper-local group who is targeting my frail-spined Congressman (Sherman (D-CA) went and took bunches of flowers and cards down to the local mosque yesterday - brought their kids to play in the preschool with the kids from the mosque. Super sweet and well done.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:59 AM on January 31, 2017 [25 favorites]


Yea just to reiterate for those not watching Spicer's briefing, I've watched 3 of these now and that was easily the most uneasy and combative, and he really lost the room and just bailed at the end.
posted by DynamiteToast at 10:59 AM on January 31, 2017 [16 favorites]


Thank you Sophie1, I had thought that America didn't care about the terrorist attack.
posted by Yowser at 11:01 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]




The Ryan "spineless" link upthread is correct as far as it goes, but it still doesn't go far enough:

All you need to know about Paul Ryan is that he gives out Atlas Shrugged as Christmas presents and requires all his staff and interns to read it. His goal is to create an Ayn Rand dystopia.

Wait, interns too? Isn't that child abuse.
posted by JackFlash at 11:02 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Wasn't the little girl killed in the raid an American citizen?

Yes. I really cannot overstate how much of a screwup I think that represents. Propaganda about how the US will even kill their own country's children if they are Islamic will be coming up very soon, I would imagine.

I would also imagine it will run with Trump's quote about being prepared to kill people's entire families rather than just the combatants, because even idiots are going to connect those two dots.
posted by jaduncan at 11:02 AM on January 31, 2017 [23 favorites]


bluecore: "This is disturbing. Thread with more info starting here:

Reports from LA that US Marshals are refusing to enforce fed court orders against CBP. They've been instructed to take orders from US Atty.
"

Jesus, that is a genuinely frightening read.
posted by erratic meatsack at 11:05 AM on January 31, 2017 [18 favorites]


Even Bush never made it this easy for exremists to say "America will kill your children to take your oil" with supporting quotes, video clips and actions.
posted by Artw at 11:05 AM on January 31, 2017 [25 favorites]


Really hoping that at least one law enforcement agency will stand up to enforce the law...
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:05 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Meanwhile, in the world of leaked possible-future-EOs.
The Trump administration is considering a plan to weed out would-be immigrants who are likely to require public assistance, as well as to deport — when possible — immigrants already living in the United States who depend on taxpayer help, according to a draft executive order obtained by The Washington Post.
Christ.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:06 AM on January 31, 2017 [18 favorites]


Yes. I really cannot overstate how much of a screwup I think that represents. Propaganda about how the US will even kill their own country's children if they are Islamic will be coming up very soon, I would imagine.

I would also imagine it will run with Trump's quote about being prepared to kill people's entire families rather than just the combatants, because even idiots are going to connect those two dots.


It's already be used. I'll see if I can find the article I read that talked about how quickly it made it into ISIS propaganda world. It was fast.
posted by Jalliah at 11:07 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Well, that's it, then. Coup complete.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:07 AM on January 31, 2017 [10 favorites]


Sopan Deb has a culture story that's kind of frivolous under the circumstances, but this anecdote is pretty golden. Trump Scorns the Pop Culture World He Once Cultivated:
“There’s a large sculpture in the middle of the room, a brass floor piece by Donald Judd,” Mr. Muschamp wrote. “Evidently Mr. Trump mistakes it for a coffee table, for he uses it as one, tossing his overcoat and some binders full of pictures on top of it as we walk over to the painting.”

For his part, Mr. Trump openly praised Mr. Muschamp’s article about the museum visit.

“They say it was the longest article ever written in The New York Times,” Mr. Trump told Mr. D’Antonio, the biographer.
And on Billy Joel attending Trump's wedding:
But some of Mr. Trump’s wedding guests weren’t exactly close friends. Mr. Joel, for example, told a radio station last year that he didn’t know why he was invited.

“I don’t remember much because I think I drank too much,” Mr. Joel said. “But I don’t really know him that well. You know, I think I met him once or twice.”
posted by zachlipton at 11:07 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Even Bush never made it this easy for exremists to say "America will kill your children to take your oil" with supporting quotes, video clips and actions.

Ah yes, I forgot the many clips of him saying the oil should be taken. There really is literally almost no field they haven't been irresponsible in.
posted by jaduncan at 11:08 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Well, that's it, then. Coup complete.

Yep pretty much. Is there even any other law enforcement that could enforce the order?
posted by Jalliah at 11:09 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Trump makes as much sense as an ISIS plant as he does a Russian.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:10 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


I would also imagine it will run with Trump's quote about being prepared to kill people's entire families rather than just the combatants, because even idiots are going to connect those two dots.

You know, maybe I'm just being paranoid, but are we sure that Trump wasn't just okay with this? It seems like a hell of a coincidence that we wouldn't know about the girl and would just approve a risky op like that.
posted by corb at 11:10 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


He really wants his Reichstag fire/is just fucking stupid.

Mainly I think some idiot let him watch Zero Dark Thirty.
posted by Artw at 11:11 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


soren_lorensen: "Meanwhile, in the world of leaked possible-future-EOs."
The administration would be seeking to “deny admission to any alien who is likely to become a public charge” and develop standards for “determining” whether an immigrant can be deported after five years if that person receives a certain amount of public assistance, including Food Stamps, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) and Medicaid.
i have a well of endless screaming that will never runneth dry
posted by erratic meatsack at 11:13 AM on January 31, 2017 [19 favorites]


I just left voicemail at ABC about the NSC shakeup. Coverage of it was on This Week (you'll need this info to press buttons to get to their voicemail). Here's my script. They give you 30 seconds. (ALL CAPS are to remind me to emphasize important words.)

"Martha Raddatz's coverage FAILS to mention that the NSC is responsible for deciding who's on Kill Lists. Kill Lists label people as "SUSPECTED" terrorists and our government orders our military to kill them. The people killed include American citizens. NOW, the NSC makes these decisions with NO mandated input WHATSOEVER from Intel, or the Joint Chiefs. There is NO PUBLIC RECORD of the decision making or the executions. Does this make you proud to be American?"

Suggestions for improvement welcome. Media people, is it important to leave my name and phone number? I didn't, because I didn't want to cut it down further.

I'm focusing on this because it looks to me like Bannon's shortcut to trigger riots, martial law, etc.

Copying & pasting the following from the brilliant user who put this in the previous thread:

This is how we oppose Bannon. We apply our pressure to changing the narrative:
CBS customer service: (212) 975-3247
ABC customer service: (818) 460-7477
CNN Customer service: (404) 827-1500
Fox News customer service: (888) 369-4762
NBC and MSNBC: (212) 664-4444
CNBC: (201) 585-2622
Associated Press: (212) 621-1500
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 11:14 AM on January 31, 2017 [41 favorites]


msm needs to get this failed mission on the front page - like with Operation Eagle Claw (failed iranian hostage rescue c. 1980). it's a big deal. part of supporting the troops is not-sending-them-to-die-for-pr-opps. goddamn. this (disturbing and graphic) photo was on the cover of a popular news mag the week after (i think time?). it was the image that humanized warfare for me. that poor guy...
posted by j_curiouser at 11:15 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


Every day it's a new bombshell. I'm pretty sure I'm not the first one to say this, but Trump (with Bannon's hand up his ass), is lobbing these edicts like the velociraptors testing the fences in Jurassic Park. Let's see what they do/how they react/who they call/where they move when we do _______, write it down, and then modify our strategy accordingly.

Believe me when I say that Bannon is as evil as political animals come, but he's no dope. There is a larger endgame at work.
posted by prepmonkey at 11:15 AM on January 31, 2017 [17 favorites]


Isn't likelihood to become a public charge already grounds for inadmissibility or a change of status? Like, that's already the law?
posted by zachlipton at 11:15 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


Not if you decide the standards are "you have to have 10 thousand dollars in your bank account" or "You have to come from a developed country"
posted by Tarumba at 11:17 AM on January 31, 2017


Thanks to someone way upthread, and let me re-amplify the Fax Your Senator link (Faxzero, 5 free faxes a day, already has prefilled info for each state and district).

I've successfully faxed my rep and senators, including Toomey, which sure felt like pissing into the wind, but still.
posted by Dashy at 11:18 AM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


zachlipton: "Isn't likelihood to become a public charge already grounds for inadmissibility or a change of status? Like, that's already the law?"

YES. I can't get over how stupid this is and really should have quoted the following portion of the article:
That’s partly because under existing federal law, new permanent residents, or green-card holders, are unable to qualify for welfare and other public benefits during their first five years of residency. Immigrants who entered the United States illegally also are unable to obtain federal welfare benefits.

Refugees are an exception, and advocates note that while those fleeing war and strife at home tend to need assistance upon arrival, they generally begin contributing to the economy within a few years.
This is like, stupid spite. Stupid.
posted by erratic meatsack at 11:18 AM on January 31, 2017 [26 favorites]


Like, that's already the law?

What is this word "law"?
posted by tobascodagama at 11:18 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]



I just read about how the Marshalls, what they're responsible for and the chain of command. Straight up to the DOJ, so if DOJ says don't enforce (which they will now since Yates is gone) then they won't. So the DOJ is now ignoring the laws and legal system that it oversees. And therefore not much can be done to enforce the court orders.

If this a correct read on how it works?
posted by Jalliah at 11:19 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm really, really, really hoping that the report about the Marshals is false. I don't think it is. But I really, really hope.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:19 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


zachlipton: The impression they want to give of the immigration process is that it's as easy as walking over the border and there needs to finally be some vetting in place, despite every process to get into and live in this country legally already being ridiculously overwrought, complicated, and lengthy.

It's kind of obviously something they feel they can only get away with because their supporters have never and will never frankly talk to anyone who's gone through the processes
posted by flatluigi at 11:20 AM on January 31, 2017 [22 favorites]


Manchin won't filibuster SCOTUS. They need 7 more.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:21 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


You know, maybe I'm just being paranoid, but are we sure that Trump wasn't just okay with this? It seems like a hell of a coincidence that we wouldn't know about the girl and would just approve a risky op like that.

Jalliah's NBC News link said that Al-Awlaki's widow, the girl's mother, was there too but not killed. It didn't say whether she's a U.S. citizen, though. Al-Awlaki's brother-in-law is among those killed, too.
posted by XMLicious at 11:21 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


You know, maybe I'm just being paranoid, but are we sure that Trump wasn't just okay with this? It seems like a hell of a coincidence that we wouldn't know about the girl and would just approve a risky op like that.

I'm not sure what they were thinking; as I said above, WTF RoEs. I'm frankly surprised that the SEALs on the ground actually fired on so many apparently non-threatening civilians regardless of what the RoEs might or might not have said and (allegedly) burnt a house to the ground with civilians in. A completely rushed risky op and a fire from a flashbang I can certainly believe, but a lot of people have to say it's OK for experienced soldiers to be shooting children. I don't know about you, but to me that doesn't sound like an NCO/junior officer level choice.

It's also sticking out like a sore thumb that nobody from the US side has explicitly denied the civilian shooting story. The point I'm at, horrifyingly enough, is that I could completely believe that the orders and RoE were shocking but I'd like to think that the SEALs have enough professionalism to not intentionally just shoot anything moving.
posted by jaduncan at 11:22 AM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


Re: the court orders not being enforced - well, if we're no longer a nation of laws, there's going to be a lot of 1%ers who are going to be unhappily surprised along with the rest of us. I wonder how the Koch brothers are feeling about their contracts and their paper (or electronic) shareholdings, if all laws are up to selective enforcement.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:23 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


Reports from LA that US Marshals are refusing to enforce fed court orders against CBP. They've been instructed to take orders from US Atty."

Jesus, that is a genuinely frightening read.


That sounds like confusion by the US Marshals more than anything else. US Marshals, though the enforcement branch of judiciary, are part of DOJ and are looking for direction from above.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:24 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Until the courts do something to defy the will of the 1%ers, I doubt this will be a concern for them.
posted by erratic meatsack at 11:25 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


I know some of the tech. companies have been very critical of the immigration ban - but has any other companies said anything? IBM, GE, Ford, Workforce, Tyson, Etc. Etc.? I would think these companies also have a lot to lose with this policy.
posted by rosswald at 11:25 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


NPR continues to straddle the fence between complicity in and collaboration with the regime.

They're done straddling it. They've lubed up and are bearing down.

I think I shared this previously, but it's apropos.
(link in MF post sfw. gif in twitter feed may not be.)
posted by prepmonkey at 11:25 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Apparently it's possible to leverage anxieties against each other, because my typical anxiety about talking to strangers has succumbed to my even greater anxiety about living under a kleptocratic kakistocracy.

This happened to me in the primaries.
posted by Coventry at 11:27 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Manchin won't filibuster SCOTUS. They need 7 more.

Anybody in WV? Pick up the phone.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:28 AM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


Isn't likelihood to become a public charge already grounds for inadmissibility or a change of status? Like, that's already the law?

I don't want to alarm anyone, but I think I may see the shape of Bannon's plan, but it's going to make me sound a little crazy to say out loud. Hear me out, I think this is a real possibility.

So the 7 country ban supposedly has the effect only on those countries, right? But in real, practical effect, who is going to spend so much time and money on something they think can be yanked away at any moment, any part of the way through the process? So you will have lower immigration to the US.

Now if you were a racist like Bannon trying to stop demographic change in the US, where would you look? Birthright citizenship and children, because the children of green card holders, if born here, are citizens. Well, it's impossible to stop people from having children. But the line that stands out there for me is including Medicaid. Why include Medicaid? Well, how expensive is a hospital birth? About 10k. If you don't have the cash, and you use a hospital to have your baby, then you have been a "drain on the public purse" and can be deported - along with, most likely, your new-citizen child, because who is going to keep a newborn alone in the US? Also just the threat of it is likely to land you towards home birth - less recorded, less citizen-provable, and with a much higher mortality rate.

I don't want to think this is their plan, but it really seems like these executive orders are starting to fit together.
posted by corb at 11:28 AM on January 31, 2017 [53 favorites]


This happened to me in the primaries.

Oops, I mean that as an expression of support, not as an opening to a relitigation of the primaries. Sorry.
posted by Coventry at 11:28 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm getting rather tired of assorted pols and media people smirkingly using the tired phrase "Saturday/Monday night massacre" as a cool-kids-table political metaphor about yesterday's firings mere days after several people in Quebec were killed in an actual, literal massacre. Ye gods, are we not doing phrasing anymore? And speaking of phrasing:

@marcorubio: Following orders of leftwing extremists

God I hope you never meet any real left-wing extremists, Marco, you weasel, because about the only thing they'd have to say to you is "Up against the wall, motherfucker."
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:28 AM on January 31, 2017 [40 favorites]


That sounds like confusion by the US Marshals more than anything else. US Marshals, though the enforcement branch of judiciary, are part of DOJ and are looking for direction from above.

Right. They're looking for direction from the executive, which is currently controlled by a bunch of fascists, about whether they should enforce a court order against another branch of the executive. We don't need to guess what "direction" they'll receive, and we don't need to guess that the same thing will happen the next time we count on them to enforce a court order that the fascists don't like.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:28 AM on January 31, 2017 [11 favorites]


Not if you decide the standards are "you have to have 10 thousand dollars in your bank account" or "You have to come from a developed country"

That's, to strip away all the legal gobblygook about presumption of immigrant intent and such, a first order approximation of the standards to get a visitor visa now.
posted by zachlipton at 11:29 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


I just read about how the Marshalls, what they're responsible for and the chain of command. Straight up to the DOJ, so if DOJ says don't enforce (which they will now since Yates is gone) then they won't. So the DOJ is now ignoring the laws and legal system that it oversees. And therefore not much can be done to enforce the court orders.

If this a correct read on how it works?


I think they report to the AG (or acting AG), so the AG can tell them to ignore it and they'll have to. But, I think then the court can find the AG/specific parties in contempt of the court order and threaten sanctions, fines, or jail time. But if the US Marshals refuse to enforce the contempt order, then we have a constitutional crisis and I'm not sure what happens then.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:29 AM on January 31, 2017 [10 favorites]


Isn't likelihood to become a public charge already grounds for inadmissibility or a change of status? Like, that's already the law?

After five years you can successfully use benefits without fear of reprisal. I'm guessing TOG wants to expand that to indefinitely.
posted by Talez at 11:30 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm clinging to hope on the Marshal story. It seems to be "just" (ha) another situation with the DOJ saying "we don't know what we're supposed to do so we're waiting for orders", not a final decision. And the Marshals are listening to the US Attorney not because they are abdicating their responsibility to deliver the orders to CBP, but because they are trying to figure out who at either CBP or DOJ will accept the orders on CBP's behalf. In other words, not that they are refusing to enforce judicial orders and refusing to hand the papers to someone, but no one will take them.
posted by alligatorpear at 11:31 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


I think they report to the AG (or acting AG), so the AG can tell them to ignore it and they'll have to. But, I think then the court can find the AG/specific parties in contempt of the court order and threaten sanctions, fines, or jail time. But if the US Marshals refuse to enforce the contempt order, then we have a constitutional crisis and I'm not sure what happens then.

We find out if Gödel was right.
posted by Talez at 11:31 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Corb, that's actually part of it and pretty blatant. This is from the same article:
It also instructs DHS and the State Department to submit a report on “the steps they are taking to combat the birth tourism phenomenon,” meaning instances in which noncitizens come to the United States to have children, who in turn gain citizenship, a popular conservative refrain but one that is dismissed by immigration experts as a relatively minor problem.
posted by erratic meatsack at 11:31 AM on January 31, 2017 [25 favorites]


Won't the companies just off shore then?

I don't understand it, but people have been talking about offshoring software development for decades, and it hasn't happened. It seems like a perfect fit for offshoring, since transport and communication costs are basically zero. But it doesn't seem to work out that way for some reason.
posted by Coventry at 11:31 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


On the other hand: IBM—Whose CEO Advises Trump—Calls for ‘Openness’ After Immigration Ban

Well, they certainly have form.

posted by jaduncan at 11:31 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


corb: I suspect you are broadly correct about what the plan is, yeah.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:32 AM on January 31, 2017


The lady who first posted the picture of the handcuffed child, well, she's still silent.

I asked her to reach out to my Congresswoman, who among other things is already quite familiar with being menaced online.

My eldest is about the same age as that kid.
posted by ocschwar at 11:32 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


From tweets accompanying the initial U.S. Marshals tweet from journalist Charlotte Silver above,
So imm. lawyers went to US Marshal, the enforcement branch of judiciary, asking them to serve orders to CBP, but they refused, saying they were instructed by Office of the General Counsel to await instruction from the U.S. Attorney’s office. So lawyers went to US Atty. US Atty office was about to accept the proof of service on behalf of CBP/DHS, but were abruptly called away. When they came back they informed immigration lawyers they could not sign.
posted by XMLicious at 11:32 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Oh, good. It appears Infowars is starting a DC news bureau and will be applying to get White House Correspondent credentials. (I can't imagine they'd go through the effort unless the WH signaled in advance they'd get them.)

It's weird to watch the collapse of your country minute by minute.
posted by bluecore at 11:33 AM on January 31, 2017 [53 favorites]


I'm clinging to hope on the Marshal story. It seems to be "just" (ha) another situation with the DOJ saying "we don't know what we're supposed to do so we're waiting for orders", not a final decision. And the Marshals are listening to the US Attorney not because they are abdicating their responsibility to deliver the orders to CBP, but because they are trying to figure out who at either CBP or DOJ will accept the orders on CBP's behalf. In other words, not that they are refusing to enforce judicial orders and refusing to hand the papers to someone, but no one will take them.

Seconding alligatorpear. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity (or bureaucratic confusion).

The DOJ being headed by a likely racist old school southerner is one thing; the DOJ denying the authority of the judiciary branch is another thing entirely. I just don't see that happening; particularly when they are about to take control of the Supreme Court.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:33 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


@marcorubio: Following orders of leftwing extremists

Furthermore, when some pantywaist Republican whiner calls you a leftwing extremist, you know you're doing something right, or at least not being a fucking inert doormat for once.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:34 AM on January 31, 2017 [14 favorites]


The US Marshals are mandated by law to enforce lawful court orders. You don't need to refer up for that.

If the AG is telling the Marshals not to enforce the orders, then the AG is acting illegally.

If the President doesn't remove the AG for acting illegally, and no court is able to detain him, then the judiciary is impotent and there's your coup.
posted by Devonian at 11:34 AM on January 31, 2017 [74 favorites]


But if the US Marshals refuse to enforce the contempt order, then we have a constitutional crisis and I'm not sure what happens then.

A bloodless coup?
posted by nubs at 11:34 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


PETER THIEL AND MARK ANDRESEN ARE HEAVILY INVOLVED WITH Y COMBINATOR.

What's their involvement? What's disturbing about Mark Andreessen?
posted by Coventry at 11:36 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Guys guys guys, unless you have a different source of information than the Twitter reporting linked upstream, there is NO reporting of the AG telling Marshals not to enforce orders. There's plenty of events to freak out about, but that isn't one of them.
posted by alligatorpear at 11:37 AM on January 31, 2017 [11 favorites]


Thanks 'cjelli' - I am hoping that some of the larger voices in private industry are able to sway Trump in the way others clearly aren't.
posted by rosswald at 11:38 AM on January 31, 2017


The explanations from Charlotte Silver are way less incendiary than the "refusing to enforce court orders" headline tweet. It's about service of process -- literally finding someone to take a physical copy of the order on CBP's behalf (like the "you've been served" scenes in movies). The Marshals are listening to the US Attorney (who is not the same as the Attorney General) only because they are trying to find someone at DOJ to give the order to, not because they are asking the US Attorney whether they should enforce the court order.
posted by alligatorpear at 11:40 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Oh, good. It appears Infowars is starting a DC news bureau and will be applying to get White House Correspondent credentials. (I can't imagine they'd go through the effort unless the WH signaled in advance they'd get them.)

Alex Jones has already been talking about getting them, according to Pod Save America. I feel like there's a strange future about to happen where Spicer repeatedly skips over NYT and CNN to call on Breitbart and Infowars. I'm not sure at what point Spicer will lose respect for himself whilst facing questions on the actions of the NWO, but I'd like to think it would be before he's required to take a position on chemtrails.
posted by jaduncan at 11:41 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]




CNN is reporting that both Gorsuch and Hardiman are in or headed to DC. In case you though tthere wasn't going to be a rose ceremony.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:43 AM on January 31, 2017 [15 favorites]


Thank you for the link to faxzero above. I just used it to send the following message to Pat Toomey's office. I have little hope that it will do any good, but I'm doing my best to appeal to the idea that confirming Sessions would let Trump take power from Toomey and the Senate.
I am a constituent from Philadelphia asking Senator Toomey to reject the confirmation of Jeff Sessions as Attorney General. The last weeks have made it very clear that the United States needs an Attorney General who will respect the Constitution and stand up to executive overreach by the President. The President is abusing the privilege of Executive Orders to effectively create new laws, circumventing the role of the Legislature. Senator Toomey must not cede the legislative prerogative of himself and his colleagues in the Senate and House to the President. As Attorney General, Jeff Sessions would act only to further the President's unconstitutional overruse of Executive Orders. Senator Toomey must only vote to confirm an Attorney General who will support the rule of law and the rightful role of the Legislative branch in our government.

I have attempted to call several of Senator Toomey's offices to express my concerns over this issue, but have not been able to get through anywhere. As a constituent, this is extremely concerning.
Any fellow Pennsylvanians are free to use part or all of this if they like.
posted by biogeo at 11:43 AM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]


The public charge stuff is indeed already law, and those signing an affidavit of support can be liable to repay public assistance while it's valid (an affidavit is only lifted after 40 quarterly SocSec credits or on naturalization).

The question of "public assistance" inevitably gets blurry. If the aim is to expand public charge rules to cover things like Medicaid, CHIP and WIC, then it's going to punish US citizen children of immigrant parents. But that's probably the plan.
posted by holgate at 11:45 AM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]




The continuing mystery of Roguepotusstaff.

They just tweeted that it is Gorsuch.
posted by Jalliah at 11:46 AM on January 31, 2017


So when will Bannon be on covers of all the magazines? Can we republish Time's Man of the Year?

I bet our President would love it?
posted by armacy at 11:46 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


This is tragic:

Family of [the] Syrians Deported From Philadelphia Voted for Donald Trump.


You misspelled poetic.
posted by phearlez at 11:47 AM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


Guys guys guys, unless you have a different source of information than the Twitter reporting linked upstream, there is NO reporting of the AG telling Marshals not to enforce orders. There's plenty of events to freak out about, but that isn't one of them.

The story is starting to fall apart somewhat. The source was a now-deleted Facebook post. Also here.
posted by zachlipton at 11:47 AM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


I'm just here to encourage anyone who's feeling incredibly overwhelmed with the world, to call up your therapists or psychiatrists and get the help you need. It's OK to take anxiety meds if you need them in order to attend a protest or just in general cope with how you feel all day.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 11:47 AM on January 31, 2017 [13 favorites]


See that Sen Bob Casey is voting against Sessions and Devos and Pruitt, go, Bob. I'm about to call that fucker Toomey's office.

I plan to call Senators one day, Reps the next. What's going on in the House that needs special pushing? There's legislation that would override the immigration EO pending in the House somewhere, right?
posted by angrycat at 11:48 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


they are trying to find someone at DOJ to give the order to,

Why is that a problem. though? In the movies, the 'you've been served' moment is rarely followed by a 'thanks, but on careful consideration I've decided to decline your kind offer'.
posted by Devonian at 11:48 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]




They just tweeted that it is Gorsuch.

Is he the most awful? Not hard to predict.
posted by Artw at 11:51 AM on January 31, 2017


I had good money on the SCOTUS pick being Bannon, followed by a presser announcing he will also be maintaining all of his duties in the White House and NSC.
posted by mayonnaises at 11:52 AM on January 31, 2017 [19 favorites]


I am aware Jones is a right-wing extremist, a racist, and dangerous because he has Trump's ear, but before the primaries I was under the impression that outside of the chemtrails/NWO/lizard-people sphere he was considered a crank and not taken particularly seriously (which, in hindsight, may have been part of the danger he posed).

What's caused Infowars and Jones to suddenly gain more prominence as a serious threat and as an influence on Trump beyond being "those weirdos who believe in chemtrails and black helicopters"?
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 11:52 AM on January 31, 2017



Why is that a problem. though? In the movies, the 'you've been served' moment is rarely followed by a 'thanks, but on careful consideration I've decided to decline your kind offer'.


Regardless of who they are to serve it to, there are people in detention who, as per the court order, are to receive legal counsel.

Legal counsel is there. If the CBP officers there are not able to understand the order they've been give, then they should be un-badged on the spot and removed from the airport.
posted by ocschwar at 11:52 AM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Gorsuch has never had the opportunity to write an opinion on Roe v. Wade.[29] However, based on his opinions expressed in his books opposing euthanasia and the taking of human life, people on both sides of the issue know where he stands.[32]

Wikipedia can be so helpful.
posted by Donald Trump Sex Nightmare at 11:53 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Is he the most awful? Not hard to predict.

Yes, he's maybe the most extreme judge in the nation.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:53 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]




What's caused Infowars and Jones to suddenly gain more prominence as a serious threat and as an influence on Trump beyond being "those weirdos who believe in chemtrails and black helicopters"?

Racism and lack of critical thinking skills mean that this current administration would love having him be the one report to citizens.
posted by dinty_moore at 11:54 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Info on Gorsuch: Neil Gorsuch, just 49, is described as a strict originalist, as well as a clear writer whose opinions are easy to understand. He sided with Hobby Lobby when that company cited religious reasons for excluding certain types of birth control from the employee insurance package, and he has challenged the authority of regulatory agencies to decide what the law means. Gorsuch opposes assisted suicide and euthanasia.
posted by rewil at 11:54 AM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


Gorsuch wrote an article in 2005 for the National Review arguing that liberals are using the courts too much and specifically mentioning same-sex marriage:

But rather than use the judiciary for extraordinary cases, von Drehle recognizes that American liberals have become addicted to the courtroom, relying on judges and lawyers rather than elected leaders and the ballot box, as the primary means of effecting their social agenda on everything from gay marriage to assisted suicide to the use of vouchers for private-school education….

As von Drehle recognizes, too much reliance on constitutional litigation is also bad for the Left itself. The Left’s alliance with trial lawyers and its dependence on constitutional litigation to achieve its social goals risks political atrophy. Liberals may win a victory on gay marriage when preaching to the choir before like-minded judges in Massachusetts. But in failing to reach out and persuade the public generally, they invite exactly the sort of backlash we saw in November when gay marriage was rejected in all eleven states where it was on the ballot.

posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:55 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Furthermore, when some pantywaist Republican whiner calls you a leftwing extremist, you know you're doing something right, or at least not being a fucking inert doormat for once.

I'm old enough to remember that when Republican whiners called you a left wing extremist, they were implying that you were being manipulated by Moscow.
posted by Gelatin at 11:55 AM on January 31, 2017 [51 favorites]


Is he the most awful? Not hard to predict.

I think this sums it up.

In a 2005 article published by National Review, Gorsuch argued that "American liberals have become addicted to the courtroom, relying on judges and lawyers rather than elected leaders and the ballot box, as the primary means of effecting their social agenda" and that they are "failing to reach out and persuade the public". Gorsuch wrote that, by relying on judges instead of elected officials and the ballot box to enact their agenda, American liberals are circumventing the democratic process on issues like gay marriage, school vouchers, and assisted suicide, and this has led to a compromised judiciary, which is no longer independent. Gorsuch wrote that American liberals' "overweening addiction" to using the courts for social debate is "bad for the nation and bad for the judiciary"
posted by Jalliah at 11:55 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Why is that a problem. though? In the movies, the 'you've been served' moment is rarely followed by a 'thanks, but on careful consideration I've decided to decline your kind offer'.

The basic problem is that, unlike the scenes in the movies (which generally are showing individual people getting served), the CBP is not a single person. So you have to figure out who has authority to accept service on behalf of the whole agency on that particular issue. And it's even one more step removed when you're trying to find someone at DOJ to accept on behalf of CBP. Yes, the DOJ represents almost all government agencies, but not every person who is a DOJ employee can accept service for any issue for any agency because there would be no guarantee it would get to the people who actually need to receive it in time.
posted by alligatorpear at 11:56 AM on January 31, 2017


I had a therapy appointment yesterday at which my therapist announced her pregnancy and maternity leave schedule. I had a very difficult time venting my doom and gloom to her, especially the part about how I'm probably never going to be able to afford children, and why would I want to bring them into this world anyway? Therapy seems particularly empty to me. She's as terrified as I am.
posted by Donald Trump Sex Nightmare at 11:56 AM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Fucker is 49, too. I do not want to get stuck with this nonsense that long.
posted by erratic meatsack at 11:56 AM on January 31, 2017 [19 favorites]


So...are the Dems still wavering on blocking this nut? Because he sounds exactly like what I expected from a Trump justice.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 11:57 AM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Until the courts do something to defy the will of the 1%ers, I doubt this will be a concern for them.

Depends. Sheldon Adelson doesn't give a damn if you go to his casinos in Vegas. He does give a damn if his whales stop showing.

Now imagine a world where, with your smart phone, someone can use facial recognition to determine if you are dealing with one of these whales, or the people who makes the whales existence possible. And based on the crowd-sourced data you opt to shun the whale or the quislings of the whale.
posted by rough ashlar at 11:57 AM on January 31, 2017


Also he cried when told about Scalia's death and there are photos of him fishing with Scalia. He will be a younger and more deranged Scalia and will sit there for 40 or 50 years or until the USA collapses, whichever comes first.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:57 AM on January 31, 2017 [11 favorites]


Originalists strike me as the sort who have problems improvising a traffic route without a GPS.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:58 AM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


Fucker is 49, too. I do not want to get stuck with this nonsense that long.

Given that they stole Obama's pick, impeach him.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:58 AM on January 31, 2017 [13 favorites]


Otherwise, it feels like the nominated replacement for Scalia is effectively Scalia 2.0.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:59 AM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Yes, he's maybe the most extreme judge in the nation.

First, this is probably not true, but second, never EVER say this. It's like standing and yelling at the sky "At least it can't possibly get worse!" IT CAN ALWAYS GET WORSE.
posted by corb at 12:00 PM on January 31, 2017 [44 favorites]


So you have to figure out who has authority to accept service on behalf of the whole agency on that particular issue

Two options: look at the DoJ org chart, or start at the top. The person in charge has authority over the lot, right?

Now that would make a decent movie scene. Perhaps it will, one day.
posted by Devonian at 12:00 PM on January 31, 2017


Young Scalia, this fall on HBO.
posted by drezdn at 12:00 PM on January 31, 2017 [19 favorites]


Re LAX: Friend just got off the phone with a staffer at Councilman Bonin's office. He said the L.A. city attorney is working with the governor's office on a solution. He also said people should email the councilman's community liaison to LAX, Omar Pulido. (omarpulido@lacity.org)
posted by Sophie1 at 12:00 PM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


Young Scalia (unfortunately not played by Jude Law).
posted by uncleozzy at 12:01 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Otherwise, it feels like the nominated replacement for Scalia is effectively Scalia 2.0.

And that's exactly what DJT promised during his campaign. Literally and seriously.
posted by mochapickle at 12:01 PM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


Yes, he's maybe the most extreme judge in the nation.

all jumping out of a plane strapped to a snowboard, shouting and whoopin' it up, slamming a mountain dew, writing a legal opinion before he pops his 'chute

at least, that's what i'm choosing to believe right now
posted by indubitable at 12:02 PM on January 31, 2017 [13 favorites]


It can always be worse. Could be Bill Pryor.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:03 PM on January 31, 2017


Pryor is generally considered to be right-ward of Gorsuch, isn't he?

It really don't make no nevermind; all these guys are horrible, the chosen one will get in, and all we can do is make it as difficult and time-consuming and bitterly fought as possible.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:04 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


At least less people will watch the dumbass unveiling show.
posted by Artw at 12:04 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


It can always be worse. Could be Bill Pryor.

Or Judge Dredd.
posted by Grangousier at 12:04 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


"Dear Reader,
I write to let you know that we're doing something at The Atlantic that we only rarely do. We are releasing our upcoming cover story weeks before our subscribers receive it, and before we put it on newsstands around the world.
These unusual times demand unusual publishing decisions. Given the precipitous nature of the decision by the White House to issue an executive order concerning refugees and immigrants from seven Muslim-majority countries, I thought that it would be better for people to read David Frum's upcoming cover story, "How to Build an Autocracy," sooner, rather than later.

[...]

Jeffrey Goldberg
Editor in Chief"
posted by monospace at 12:05 PM on January 31, 2017 [62 favorites]


I know it's dreadful and upsetting, but seriously, every day of delay is one day longer that the American people have fundamental rights.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:06 PM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


I hate how these slimeballs are inexorably getting their way and getting rid of and terrorizing anyone who has the moral fortitude and courage to stand up to them without blinking. Hate it. Hate it, hate it, hate it.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 12:07 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Washington Posts's Catherine Rampell (@crampell) on twitter says she was just forwarded an e-mail stating that DHS Is rejecting all Global Entry, TSA Pre and Nexus applications from 7 Countries listed in Travel ban, also for US citizens with dual nationality to these countries (via Greg Siskind). Global Entry is a U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) program that allows expedited clearance for pre-approved, low-risk travelers upon arrival in the United States.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:07 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Or Judge Dredd.

*sigh*

Judge Dredd writer here. Judge Dredd is a tepresemtive of an awful authoritarian dystopian future where democracy has been crushed and the state has near total control over civilian lives. However Dredd himself is not corrupt or self serving in any way, and has an overwhelming concern for the wellbeing of his cities populace. Comparisons to republicans are unfair.
posted by Artw at 12:09 PM on January 31, 2017 [152 favorites]


Otherwise, it feels like the nominated replacement for Scalia is effectively Scalia 2.0.

Oh, I wouldn't say that. Scalia's administrative law reasoning is often extremely sophisticated.

---

Pryor is generally considered to be right-ward of Gorsuch, isn't he?


And yes, Pryor would be more of a horror show. He's a socially conservative politician from the South, he is against Lawrence v Texas, and called Roe v Wade "the worst abomination of constitutional law in our history." I would imagine he'd be problematic as a Justice because he follows the law but is a dumpster fire with his opinions. Justices have far more latitude than judges. The rest is left as an exercise for the reader.
posted by jaduncan at 12:09 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


all these guys are horrible, the chosen one will get in

Seriously, it hardly matters that so-and-so is four inches or four feet or four miles to the right of so-and-so, because they're all going to make the same terrible rulings. Do as much as possible to gum the works.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:09 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Crazy thought... Trump isn't having two possible justice choices come to the White House to make it less clear who his pick is. Maybe he's planning on increasing the size of the court. (I don't think he would, but maybe?)
posted by drezdn at 12:11 PM on January 31, 2017


Plausible.
posted by Artw at 12:12 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Another peak into the comments from a Federal Agency: a meeting organized by a federal employee was updated just to add this note:
Any opinions, findings, and conclusions or recommendations expressed in this publication are those of the Author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the view of the Federal Highway Administration.
Dear POTUS: Get. Your. Shit. Together. You're making this fooking country look like a joke, and bringing normal operations of otherwise day-to-day business of government to a crawl as people try to figure out what they can and can't "officially" say, even if you're just reporting facts and figures.

Of course, that's probably the goal. "Look how ineffective government is, let's really cut out this waste and make the system more efficient!"

So if anyone points to the lack of action from any Federal agency under the new administration, remember that the the wooden shoes that are jamming the system aren't coming from the workers among the cogs, but the leaders from on high.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:12 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Maybe he's planning on increasing the size of the court.

I mean, it's certainly possible he thinks he can do that unilaterally given the quality of legal advice he is apparently getting these days, but it would take an act of Congress to increase the number of justices on the Court.
posted by alligatorpear at 12:13 PM on January 31, 2017


Crazy thought... Trump isn't having two possible justice choices come to the White House to make it less clear who his pick is.

And the final rose goes to...
posted by zakur at 12:13 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Feds detain Katy High School student from Jordan following President Trump's immigration ban

"A 16-year-old Jordanian visa holder, who attends Katy High School, has been detained by U.S. immigration officials for more than three days following President Trump's controversial immigration executive order, according to his brother.

Mohammad Abu Khadra, who lives in Katy with his brother Rami, traveled to Jordan last week to renew his visa. When he flew into Bush IAH airport Saturday, immigration officials allegedly canceled his visa and detained him at the airport for about 72 hours. He was transferred to a detention center in Chicago Monday and has no access to his cell phone."

"Rami, a 37-year-old green card holder who has been in the United States for five years, said he feels helpless.

"My country is not one of seven countries on the list," Rami said. "It's like because he's from the Middle East, he gets detained."

Officials told Rami that Mohammad could be in the Chicago detention center for as long as two months. Rami said he hopes to hear from Mohammad Tuesday, but that his little brother is only allowed to call once a week for 30 minutes."

posted by anastasiav at 12:13 PM on January 31, 2017 [71 favorites]


It's an incredible fuck up. Under any other admin heads would be rolling. They just made Anwar al Awaki immortal and sympathetic, and images of his kid will be driving terrorist causes for decades.

To go back to this really quickly, it's important that we all understand (and do our best to get into the press) that this operation was NOT A FUCK UP. The soldiers almost certainly had orders to commit an atrocity of some kind, and in fact that was probably the only actual purpose of the mission. Bannon wants a terrorist attack to occur against the US to give him a casus belli, and he is trying to provoke one. This went exactly the way he wanted it to go, except maybe for the death of the SEAL. "images of his kid will be driving terrorist causes for decades" was absolutely the intent of this mission.
posted by IAmUnaware at 12:13 PM on January 31, 2017 [19 favorites]


McCaskill seems to endorse the filibuster but she's being weasely enough about it that I'm not entirely sure.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:14 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


I feel like there's a strange future about to happen where Spicer repeatedly skips over NYT and CNN to call on Breitbart and Infowars.

He's probably regretting not having infowars there already to ask the questions about the terrorist attack on the mosque in Quebec:
As with literally every other mass shooting in — I suspect — the history of the entire world, Jones believes this is a false flag. His primary evidence for this is that many news organizations didn’t have all the facts right away, immediately after the shooting; that there were some hoaxes concerning the suspects (coming from a fake Reuters Twitter account and Donald Trump-themed subreddits); and that police initially incorrectly identified a witness, Mohamed el Khadir, as one of the suspects.

Jones claims that this is obviously a “fubar false flag operation” possibly orchestrated by George Soros in order to get people to be mad at Trump supporters! But also it was orchestrated by Khadir, who he believes set Bissonnette up as “the patsy, the white guy found at the scene.” Also, he claims, Bissonnette, despite outwardly praising Trump and embracing far-right talking points, must have secretly converted to Islam prior to shooting up the mosque.
http://wonkette.com/611131/trump-friend-alex-jones-says-quebec-was-a-false-flag-so-it-must-be-true
posted by Buntix at 12:14 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


drezdn: Crazy thought... Trump isn't having two possible justice choices come to the White House to make it less clear who his pick is. Maybe he's planning on increasing the size of the court.

Then Congress would have to support his decision, because he can't just sign another EO and say "by order of King _rump, so it shall be" and someone pulls up another chair.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:15 PM on January 31, 2017


Crazy thought... Trump isn't having two possible justice choices come to the White House to make it less clear who his pick is. Maybe he's planning on increasing the size of the court. (I don't think he would, but maybe?)

I don't know how it all works but if he found out he could I have no doubt he would. It will be a show like know other. Would send waves through the country etc etc. He loves that shit.
posted by Jalliah at 12:15 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


I hate how these slimeballs are inexorably getting their way and getting rid of and terrorizing anyone who has the moral fortitude and courage to stand up to them without blinking. Hate it. Hate it, hate it, hate it.

Do as much as possible to gum the works.

I agree completely. The two big short-term priorities are 1) protecting as many of the more-vulnerable-than-me as possible and 2) fucking up as much of the wrecking of civil representative democracy as is reasonably feasible.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:15 PM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


It can always be worse. Could be Bill Pryor.

Or Judge Dredd.


Gorsuch is pretty bad. Imagine Scalia, but without the occasionally strong stands to keep what's left of the 4th Amendment alive.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:15 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'd express outrage at a Sandy Hook Truther being in the Whitehouse, but the truth is the majority of Trumps people probably are that already.
posted by Artw at 12:16 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Then Congress would have to support his decision, because he can't just sign another EO and say "by order of King _rump, so it shall be" and someone pulls up another chair.

But can he say this is what I want. I want these two guys. Now do it please?
posted by Jalliah at 12:16 PM on January 31, 2017


I mean, it's certainly possible he thinks he can do that unilaterally given the quality of legal advice he is apparently getting these days, but it would take an act of Congress to increase the number of justices on the Court.

I fully expect him to try it and dare anybody to stop him. Maybe not today, but eventually. The first time there's a 5-4 break against him, for sure.
posted by tobascodagama at 12:17 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Maybe he's planning on increasing the size of the court.

FDR used the threat of this to get legislation unlikely to pass the court through. Possible he's hoping for something similar?
posted by corb at 12:18 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Executive Order signing has been cancelled for today (per Jim Acosta)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:19 PM on January 31, 2017


And Chris Coons earlier today. They're not going to do it.

Burn everything. Primary everyone. No donations for appeasers. This party doesn't deserve our support.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:21 PM on January 31, 2017 [17 favorites]


There go the midterms.
posted by Artw at 12:21 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Labor nominee Puzder’s confirmation hearing delayed a fourth time

He's yet to submit his financial disclosure and ethics paperwork. Perhaps he's backing out?
posted by zachlipton at 12:21 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Just got an email from the UK gov't petition site:
Parliament is going to debate the petition you signed – “Prevent Donald Trump from making a State Visit to the United Kingdom.”.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/171928

The debate is scheduled for 20 February 2017.
Could be one to watch...
posted by Buntix at 12:21 PM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


Never again let the name "Democrat" pass from your lips without the name "Vichy" before it.
posted by tobascodagama at 12:22 PM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]


The soldiers almost certainly had orders to commit an atrocity of some kind, and in fact that was probably the only actual purpose of the mission. Bannon wants a terrorist attack to occur against the US to give him a casus belli, and he is trying to provoke one. This went exactly the way he wanted it to go, except maybe for the death of the SEAL. "images of his kid will be driving terrorist causes for decades" was absolutely the intent of this mission.

Kevin Drum, who is no one's idea of a wild-eyed leftie, tends to agree, and sees the immigration ban as part of the same picture.
Friday's immigration order is merely the opening salvo in Bannon's war, designed to stir up the troops and begin the process of targeting Muslims as the enemy. Think of it as Lend-Lease. To truly get the United States—and the West—dedicated to the unconditional surrender of Islam, he needs a mammoth provocation. Even 9/11 wasn't enough. He's going to need something bigger.

Would he be willing to engineer such a provocation? Probably. Could he actually do it? That's a lot harder to answer. But I don't doubt that, one way or another, this is his ultimate goal. That's why he's now a principal on the National Security Council.

...

As Josh Harkinson has reported, Bannon is deadly serious about this war, and there's no way he'll get it just by jawboning. It will only happen if there are a lot of dead bodies somewhere in America, and that means we have to do something to provoke a massive response from Osama bin Laden 2.0, whoever that turns out to be. The immigration order is a pinprick, just something to test the waters. Think of it as market research. More will be coming.
posted by Gelatin at 12:22 PM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]




it's back to medieval medicine for us

COME AMICI

I'VE FRESH SHEEP'S URINE AND ROSEMARY POULTICES FOR YOUR BUNIONS
posted by poffin boffin at 12:22 PM on January 31, 2017 [11 favorites]


So, on the whole Bannon-on-the-NSC thing, can someone explain something to me?

50 U.S. Code § 3021 - National Security Council

(a) Establishment; presiding officer; functions; composition
There is established a council to be known as the National Security Council (hereinafter in this section referred to as the “Council”).
The President of the United States shall preside over meetings of the Council: Provided, That in his absence he may designate a member of the Council to preside in his place.
The function of the Council shall be to advise the President with respect to the integration of domestic, foreign, and military policies relating to the national security so as to enable the military services and the other departments and agencies of the Government to cooperate more effectively in matters involving the national security.

The Council shall be composed of—
(1) the President;
(2) the Vice President;
(3) the Secretary of State;
(4) the Secretary of Defense;
(5) the Secretary of Energy; and
(6) the Secretaries and Under Secretaries of other executive departments and of the military departments, when appointed by the President by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to serve at his pleasure.

Bannon isn't a secretary or under secretary, right? How does he get on the NSC?
posted by craven_morhead at 12:22 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


So we don't have the Democrats, who do we have?
posted by Tarumba at 12:22 PM on January 31, 2017


Judge Dredd writer here. ... Comparisons to republicans are unfair.

Judge Death, now...
posted by Devonian at 12:23 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Gorsuch is pretty bad. Imagine Scalia, but without the occasionally strong stands to keep what's left of the 4th Amendment alive.

I very much didn't like Scalia's stances or application of policy concerns. That said, Scalia was at least an effective writer (and intellectually honest) regarding administrative law even whilst being less effective and self-disciplined when considering social issues. He was a flawed but qualified man, and neither of the candidates mentioned above could tie his intellectual shoes.
posted by jaduncan at 12:23 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Outer Ones were emissaries of goodwill from beyond spacetime that welcomed all sentient beings into their multiversal society of monsters. They would resent the comparison.

"Speaking as a representative of the Outer Ones, we welcome all life forms and all varieties of Earthlings into our interstellar community, support the sciences, and deplore your American leader's inane behavior. He is an imbecile. Now, would you mind if we inserted your brain into one of these canisters? We can guarantee you that an eternity wandering the darkest reaches of space with us would be infinitely better than remaining here."

- Yuggothian Ambassador N'Gah-Kthun (fake)
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 12:23 PM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


So we don't have the Democrats, who do we have?

Each other.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:24 PM on January 31, 2017 [52 favorites]


An expansion in response to my earlier quote: "Any opinions, findings, and conclusions or recommendations expressed in this publication are those of the Author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the view of the Federal Highway Administration. "

The problem with this statement that opinions, findings, and conclusions or recommendations almost explicitly are the views of their parent administration. After all, why else would staff comment and provide such info? "Eh, I'm not really sure what you can do with this, I'm just some staff-level lackey, not a real person of power or authority."

The way it normally works is that someone well enough versed in the product or process being discussed presents on that item because they know what is going on. After all, they were involved with the production of the item in question, so they can speak to it with authority.

This is explicitly intended to undermine the authority of those who present information. Except we're all colleagues, in a way, so we all recognize that yes, whatever is said now could be walked back. But that rarely happens, because there's a process for everything, and if something is questionable, people raise questions and they get answered, or the information gets revised to specifically address those issues.

So my venting and my excitement is not at the staff people, but at the effort to undermine these staff people.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:24 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


We're up to 17 JCCs receiving bomb threats today.
posted by zachlipton at 12:27 PM on January 31, 2017 [11 favorites]


I'm old enough to remember that when Republican whiners called you a left wing extremist, they were implying that you were being manipulated by Moscow.

Gosh yes. Remember that TV movie where the lefty anti-nuclear activists try to blow up Charleston? The terrorist group even includes a poet.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 12:27 PM on January 31, 2017




I mean, given the love on the deep right for false flag actions, I can only imagine that Bannon is one of his own... And or a juicy war to distract people from the domestic abuses.
posted by kaibutsu at 12:29 PM on January 31, 2017


IAmUnaware: To go back to this really quickly, it's important that we all understand (and do our best to get into the press) that this operation was NOT A FUCK UP. The soldiers almost certainly had orders to commit an atrocity of some kind, and in fact that was probably the only actual purpose of the mission.

I disagree with this assessment. Believing without evidence that Navy SEALs willingly accepted an order to commit an atrocity is getting into Infowars territory.

I do believe Trump could've been eager for a PR moment of terrorists in handcuffs getting walked into Guantanamo, an early victory to match Obama's Bin Laden moment, and therefore he might've approved or pushed for a mission that didn't actually merit boots on the ground or needed more extensive planning. And, yeah, I think Bannon completely wants a war with Islam, and retaliation attacks on US soil serve that. But ordering them to commit an atrocity (and having them follow that order) is a bridge too far for me.
posted by bluecore at 12:29 PM on January 31, 2017 [17 favorites]


How do people get prints of the Shepard Fairey "We The People" posters? Just taking the files to Kinko's?

Also, a source for pussyhats, Etsy?
posted by bongo_x at 12:29 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Kidnapping and intelligence grab seems more likely. No need for boots on the ground otherwise.
posted by Artw at 12:30 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


i just want to go to bed and never come out
posted by murphy slaw at 12:30 PM on January 31, 2017 [18 favorites]


A large co-ordinated terrorist attack on US soil should only be seen as a failure of Trump's administration. He promised to keep his voters safe right?
posted by PenDevil at 12:31 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Bannon isn't a secretary or under secretary, right? How does he get on the NSC?

My sense is that it's unclear. Laurence Tribe thinks it's probably legal, but focused on the language about the "principals committee" which isn't mentioned in the act. The EO also says that Bannon and Priebus "may attend" NSC meetings, but are regular attendees at principal committee's meetings, which could be relevant.

My other sense is that this part of the slow motion process of pushing on our system's ambiguities and unwritten rules to see how much they can get away with, so I don't really care about the legalities specifically as much as I care that it's a dangerous idea.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:32 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Nice headline. NYTimes: It’s ‘The Apprentice, Supreme Court Edition,’ as Trump Summons Finalists to White House.

I wonder if the press conference will borrow the O'Jays song used as the theme of the Apprentice.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:32 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


There’s already evidence that a Democratic blockade will have meaningful gaps.

This isn't necessarily a foregone conclusion. Some of them may be saying that now, but maybe they just need a nice friendly visit from a couple thousand of their constituents. But broadly, yes, I have voted 99.99999% Democratic for 38 years, I have pretty staunch Democratic senators I generally approve of, but if they (and/or the DNC) rolls over on this and lies down for Bannon's authoritarians, then they get not one more thin dime or vote from me.

I expect to see some fucking party discipline and caucus solidarity. So it's less about urging my Senators how to vote and more about helping them see the importance of getting the wimps in line.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:32 PM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


Also, a source for pussyhats, Etsy?

I posted a classified on NextDoor.com asking if I could pay someone to knit one for my wife. Of course, being in commie pinko Madison several people all posted "ON IT!" and I had to tell them I only needed one.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 12:32 PM on January 31, 2017 [10 favorites]


The soldiers almost certainly had orders to commit an atrocity of some kind, and in fact that was probably the only actual purpose of the mission.

Yes, and I'm sure that the SEAL who died either was under orders to commit suicide to make it really poignant or was shot by his commander after he declared his intent during the mission to tell Glenn Greenwald that they were under orders to commit an atrocity.
posted by Etrigan at 12:32 PM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


A large co-ordinated terrorist attack on US soil should only be seen as a failure of Trump's administration. He promised to keep his voters safe right?

They blamed 9/11 on Clinton, and later even on Obama somehow, while repeating for 16 years that Bush "kept us safe".
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:33 PM on January 31, 2017 [34 favorites]


He promised to keep his voters safe right?

Yeah, but the (minority) Democrats are being soooooo obstructionist that he's having a hard time MingAGA.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:33 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Parliament is going to debate the petition you signed – “Prevent Donald Trump from making a State Visit to the United Kingdom.”.


That's 1.7 million people who would rather risk economic retaliation from Trump than subject their queen to the indignity of meeting him.
posted by ocschwar at 12:36 PM on January 31, 2017 [30 favorites]


I'm really unsure what this country will look like by FEB 20th. He has been in office 11 days and that's literally 20 days away.
posted by AlexiaSky at 12:39 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


But ordering them to commit an atrocity (and having them follow that order) is a bridge too far for me.

I understand what you're saying, but have you been noticing a trend in the actions of conservatives lately? I don't think this is a good time to be assuming that people just wouldn't stoop to things.

It would only take a couple of people in the chain of command being racist/alt-right/Bannon admirers (bit of redundancy there) for this to happen. You can believe that this happened by "accident" (that is to say, that Bannon merely pushed for a situation that was likely to cause this instead of specifically ordering it to happen) if you want, but honestly I'm not sure how different that is for those of us outside the immediate situation. Either way, Bannon is trying to start a war with an entire religion and he's going to murder their children until they give it to him, and then he's going to use that as an excuse to make the Japanese internment camps in WWII look like a polite peacekeeping action.
posted by IAmUnaware at 12:39 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


That's 1.7 million people who would rather risk economic retaliation from Trump than subject their queen to the indignity of meeting him.

Considering that Corbyn has ordered a 3 line whip on Article 50, is he going to argue for or against a visit from one of the UK's largest (future) trade partners?
posted by PenDevil at 12:43 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


It would only take a couple of people in the chain of command being racist/alt-right/Bannon admirers (bit of redundancy there) for this to happen.

It would take literally every person in the chain of command being racist/alt-right/Bannon admirers for this to happen.

You can believe that this happened by "accident" (that is to say, that Bannon merely pushed for a situation that was likely to cause this instead of specifically ordering it to happen) if you want, but honestly I'm not sure how different that is for those of us outside the immediate situation.

One's a war crime, and one isn't. Do you genuinely believe that intent and conspiracy don't matter?
posted by Etrigan at 12:43 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Would the Dems even be able to block a hearing on the supreme court nom?
posted by amarynth at 12:43 PM on January 31, 2017


I do believe Trump could've been eager for a PR moment of terrorists in handcuffs getting walked into Guantanamo, an early victory to match Obama's Bin Laden moment, and therefore he might've approved or pushed for a mission that didn't actually merit boots on the ground or needed more extensive planning. And, yeah, I think Bannon completely wants a war with Islam, and retaliation attacks on US soil serve that. But ordering them to commit an atrocity (and having them follow that order) is a bridge too far for me.

I doubt they were ordered to commit an atrocity, but I do think this operation was a Xanatos Gambit by Bannon -- he gets something he wants no matter how it shakes out. If it's successful, DJT has his Bin Laden moment on Day 10. In the more likely event that it's not, he banks on DJT's sloppy thinking and rushed planning to botch the operation and incite a violent reaction.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 12:45 PM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


That's 1.7 million people who would rather risk economic retaliation from Trump than subject their queen to the indignity of meeting him.

Not too bothered about E2R, but giving Trump the ego-wank that the pomp and circumstance of a UK state visit would give. Yeah, nah.

The war with the NPS is heating up: House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks
posted by Buntix at 12:45 PM on January 31, 2017 [15 favorites]


That's 1.7 million people who would rather risk economic retaliation from Trump than subject their queen to the indignity of meeting him.

Or who are willing to risk major consequences to tell this tyrant and bully he's unwelcome in their country and see how he likes it. Goading him as much and as hard as possible may be one of the only useful tactics the people of the world have access to.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:45 PM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]


Given that Trump is known to renege on deals, economic retaliation is gonna look about the same.
posted by tel3path at 12:47 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Kamala Harris: We need an Attorney General committed to equal rights for all, including women, people of color, and the LGBT community. It is clear after his confirmation hearings that person is not Jeff Sessions, and that is why I oppose him.

If you agree, please add your name to our petition calling on my Senate colleagues to oppose Sessions as well.

posted by mudpuppie at 12:48 PM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


That's 1.7 million people who would rather risk economic retaliation from Trump than subject their queen to the indignity of meeting him.

Considering the remarks he's made about Diana and Kate, perhaps they are also thinking of Prince William not having to deal with his grandmother having the oaf over for tea.
posted by nubs at 12:48 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Nobody at the rally last night seemed to give a toss about what the queen's opinion of the matter might be. The biggest roar of the night came when anticipating the reception he'd get from us if it does happen.
posted by skybluepink at 12:49 PM on January 31, 2017 [11 favorites]


Would the Dems even be able to block a hearing on the supreme court nom?

They can do better than that, they can kill it entirely with a filibuster. Unless the Republicans nuke it. Which they will.

The only other option is allow him to be confirmed with Democratic votes in favor and the mantle of "bipartisanship" rather than what actually happened, an unprecedented theft of SCOTUS.

Either they send the message that "this is not normal", or they're telling all of us that no, this is normal now, and we agree with all of it. We won't fight for you at all, you're all fucked, but don't worry, we'll all be fine at dinner with Mitch McConnell later. That guy's a good turtle.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:50 PM on January 31, 2017 [31 favorites]


Used biogeo's script to fax all of Toomey's offices, that is, until fax zero told me to wait a while because I had several faxes that were pending. Thank you biogeo! Much better than my rage-wail of EEEEEEEEEEEEEEE YOU STUPID MOTHERFUCKERS.
posted by angrycat at 12:50 PM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


In regards to who'll get blamed for a major terrorist attack in the U.S.:

The GOP has been pre-emptively blaming the left and the idea of open borders for years. And by evoking an endless feeling of threat and impending disaster they've cleared a neat little stage in the mind's of their base for the violence already; now all they need to do is sit back and wait for the big show. There's also a very high chance that if an attack does come, it'll be in one of the "coastal liberal elite bubbles" anyway, so it'll even fit itself right into their routine TV viewing.

I have little faith the GOP and its base will have a rational and meaningful response to future terrorist attacks. They'll exploit it for another power grab a la the W. Bush years. My only hope is that the Democrats will finally realize there's a massive base of people looking for a new national party of the left and will refuse to jump on the same bandwagon that lead the charge into Iraq.
posted by AtoBtoA at 12:50 PM on January 31, 2017 [16 favorites]


CNN apparently have a click counting down to the stupid ass announcement. Nothing has been learned.
posted by Artw at 12:51 PM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


Trump administration circulates more draft immigration restrictions, focusing on protecting U.S. jobs: The Trump administration is considering a plan to weed out would-be immigrants who are likely to require public assistance, as well as to deport — when possible — immigrants already living in the United States who depend on taxpayer help, according to a draft executive order obtained by The Washington Post.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:53 PM on January 31, 2017


I thought the filibuster would be after the hearing, not completely blocking a hearing like what happened with Garland. I was educated in US public schools, I don't know how government works!
posted by amarynth at 12:54 PM on January 31, 2017


The Executive Order on Refugees: An Emerging Public Health Crisis

The Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health is hosting a symposium on the consequences of this action for U.S. commitments and refugee health. (The webcast will begin 02/02 at 3PM EST)

"Topics that will be covered include:

An on-the-ground perspective of the Syrian refugee crisis
The U.S. refugee resettlement program
The health of refugees and displaced people in Iraq (including Yazidis) and Syria
U.S. refugee policy: What should be done
Public health, bioethics and the refugee crisis"
posted by Tarumba at 12:55 PM on January 31, 2017 [16 favorites]


If you agree, please add your name to our petition calling on my Senate colleagues to oppose Sessions as well.

I love you, Kamala!, and am happy to be on your petition. But you and ActBlue still don't get a fucking penny from me and mine until we see how you vote and what you do about SCOTUS.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:55 PM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]


I don't know how government works!

don't worry, you sound like a perfect candidate for the trump administration
posted by entropicamericana at 12:56 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Ok... This is weird:
During @PressSec briefing he was passed long notes: big letters written w/ red Sharpie. Journos speculate they're from a watching Trump. 1/2
One journo at @PressSec briefing says he could see & one of the notes for Spicer written in red Sharpie began: "It was Obama's fault." 2/2
--@DavidCornDC

Spicer was pretty rattled during today's briefing. His boss passing him notes on his performance in realtime would certainly have contributed to that.
posted by zachlipton at 12:56 PM on January 31, 2017 [77 favorites]


Nominations for the JFK Profile in Courage Award Nominations accepted on a rolling basis through February 1, 2017.

Thanks for this. I'm supposed to be working, but I made sure to throw a quick thing together to submit for Sally Yates:

While serving as the acting Attorney General, Sally Yates demonstrated her loyalty to the Constitution and to principle of law in refusing to defend the immigration ban Executive Order issued by President Donald Trump on January 27, 2017. She upheld her promise given in her confirmation hearing in response to the then-theoretical question of whether she would disobey improper Presidential orders (https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4653400/senator-sessions-advising-sally-yates-disobey-improper-presidential-orders). For this, she was fired by President Trump on January 30, 2017. She acted to maintain the integrity of the judicial branch and its intended purpose in serving as a check on any unilateral action by the executive branch. She did so not for political gain, but to act by principle, in the manner in which we expect all public servants to act when there is a question of moral and institutional compromise. Because of this, I believe she is a prime candidate for the Profile in Courage award.

It's sloppy and could be better stated, I'm sure. But I think it will serve two purposes:
1) She absolutely deserves it
2) Donald Trump would hate to see such a defiant action awarded for courage, and I would like to see this defiance basically symbolize the "highest civilian honor the presidency can confer," as was described above
posted by orbit-3 at 12:56 PM on January 31, 2017 [43 favorites]


A filibuster happens on the floor, or threatens to. Hearings are scheduled when the majority party on the committee decides to schedule them. There will be hearings.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:56 PM on January 31, 2017


No sorry, they can't block a hearing like Republicans did, because Republicans control the senate schedule. The filibuster would be at cloture, after the hearing, and would block the final vote.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:56 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


The war with the NPS is heating up: House Moves to Encourage Drilling in National Parks

Starting to get a little tired of The Simpsons prophesying everything.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 12:57 PM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]


For some bonus WTF, DCist is reporting that Chaffetz said that he's "exploring" having the residential areas of D.C. retrocede back to Maryland.
posted by amarynth at 12:57 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


$100 to the journalist who gets a picture of Trump's love notes.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:58 PM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


but honestly I'm not sure how different that is for those of us outside the immediate situation.

Because one way there's literal storm troopers in uniform who have completely infiltrated the military, and the other way there's just Evil Bannon. We have enough troubles already without borrowing more.
posted by corb at 12:58 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


One journo at @PressSec briefing says he could see & one of the notes for Spicer written in red Sharpie began: "It was Obama's fault."

You'd think that by now they'd have a number code system.

1: Obama's fault.
2: Biased media.
3: That's not what happened.
4: That's not what he said.
posted by Etrigan at 12:58 PM on January 31, 2017 [22 favorites]


5. It's not a ban.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:59 PM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


Thanks for this. I'm supposed to be working, but I made sure to throw a quick thing together to submit for Sally Yates:

Profiles in Courage nominees need to be elected officials.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 12:59 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Spicer can't even stop tweeting his password, I doubt he could remember a code.
posted by emjaybee at 12:59 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Stupid media. The black sharpie is notes from Trump. The red sharpie is notes from Putin.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:01 PM on January 31, 2017 [25 favorites]




Thank you, Huffy Puffy and T. D. Strange. That's the impression I was under, but I was second-guessing myself because it sounded like people were disappointed in the fact that Dems were saying that there would be a hearing, when a hearing is really a foregone conclusion.
posted by amarynth at 1:02 PM on January 31, 2017


Because one way there's literal storm troopers in uniform who have completely infiltrated the military

Storm Trumpers: trumping up a storm.
posted by Buntix at 1:03 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Just wanted to let you all know I'm about to head to a CA-45 protest I helped canvass for. We're expecting several hundreds of people, which is great, but Rep. Walters staff have actually closed the office today to avoid hearing us, which is awful, but we have it confirmed that local media will be there, which is great.

Remember being a teenager, wondering if anyone was going to come to your party after all? This is like that, but way more intense. I will follow up tonight with the rundown of what happened.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 1:03 PM on January 31, 2017 [26 favorites]


It's funny when "exploring" having DC become part of Maryland doesn't include talking to anyone from Maryland or DC about it. Just where have you been exploring, Congressman? Up your own ass?
posted by alligatorpear at 1:04 PM on January 31, 2017 [10 favorites]


It would only take a couple of people in the chain of command being racist/alt-right/Bannon admirers (bit of redundancy there) for this to happen. You can believe that this happened by "accident" (that is to say, that Bannon merely pushed for a situation that was likely to cause this instead of specifically ordering it to happen) if you want, but honestly I'm not sure how different that is for those of us outside the immediate situation.

Eh. At the risk of this being full MiliFilter, here we go. Telling a team of exremely experienced soldiers that they should be all about killing women and kids is not, to put it mildly, generally going to go well. They tend to be relatively serious, and intelligent enough to be, say, a radio operator, a qualified medic and a sapper in one person. I know someone from a similar unit that shot a child in Iraq. He's not a stupid man, and as it happens I think that he was tactically justified in doing so. He's still massively morally challenged by what he did. I don't think that's unusual, and I think you're making a mistake if you don't view unit members as having much moral agency. There are big bright lines about killing unarmed women and *especially* children.

TBH, you'd want a less well-trained unit for a predictable atrocity. A bunch of overly pumped up and terrified rookies in over their heads followed by some screams, panic and a few thousand rounds of random shooting. That's why you have them led by experienced NCOs and junior officers. SEALs are likely to just get the job done whilst not risking pissing their honour and extensive careers away in some ensuing court martial, because risk management is a large part of how they got in the team in the first place. The senior officers who ran the operation certainly aren't picked because they are idiots who can't weigh the odds, and that very much includes CYA stuff. It's just improbable.

More likely, if we're randomly guessing: they are told that the RoEs are these, use them if under threat. The first chopper goes down, and everyone wakes up. Immediate contact starts. They still go in to get whatever the objective was and everything steadily goes to shit because the situation is unclear, nobody is in control and nobody is clear who the combatants are. The RoEs are newly loose. Everything with a moving silhouette gets shot. I think even Bannon probably wouldn't want that, because it's the kind of story that quite easily ends with everyone on the team dead.

I feel we have probably kicked this one around a lot given the relative paucity of information.
posted by jaduncan at 1:04 PM on January 31, 2017 [28 favorites]


Your Senator Opposes the Muslim Ban—So Tell Them How to Stop It.

Edit: they accidentally call "unanimous consent" "universal consent." It's the former.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:05 PM on January 31, 2017


CNN apparently have a click counting down to the stupid ass announcement. Nothing has been learned.

Expecting cable news not to cable news is pointless. They have a 24/7 cycle and ads to sell. If you want it to change you do it by starving them out. Don't turn it on, don't share their links, don't pay them attention. The reality is that their viewership is pretty shit and that's all the cable news channels.
For the month, Fox topped all of cable news in the 25-54 demo and total viewers in all of the major viewing times.

In Monday-Friday primetime, Fox led the way with 3.83 million viewers, compared to CNN’s 1.83 million and MSNBC’s 1.65 million. For Total Day, Fox was on top with 1.97 million, followed by CNN’s 993,000 and MSNBC’s 736,000. Daytime viewership was also dominated by Fox as it pulled in 2.09 million. CNN’s programming reeled in 1.04 million viewers and MSNBC finished third at 695K.

Fox News’ The O’Reilly Factor maintained its top spot among cable news programming, giving Bill O’Reilly’s show 192 months as the #1 cable news program. The Factor pulled in 4.09 million viewers and 816,000 in the 25-54 demo. Sean Hannity also enjoyed a strong month, seeing his program Hannity finish second in the 25-54 demo with 795,000 viewers while averaging 3.26 million total viewers.
Round that shit up generously and you're at 8M in a nation of 300M. Look at those individual show numbers like Hannity... Crazy Ex-Girlfriend on the CW, which is a wait that isn't cancelled??? item only renewed because it gets awards, pulls a 18-49 rating of 200,000. More people watch Grimm on Friday nights than watch Hannity. The Cancellation Bear thinks The Odd Couple is likely to get cancelled this year and it pulls 1.01M in the 18-49. Do you know anyone who watches Odd Couple? I don't.

Cable news is small potato bullshit. They matter, particularly FOX, because old likely-to-vote chumps watch them. But don't overstate their overall importance with regards to the nation. At this point the most important thing about them is that our Manbaby Tweeter president can't stop watching them. Their influence on everyone else is small. Don't reward them with your concern and outrage. Just starve em out.
posted by phearlez at 1:05 PM on January 31, 2017 [36 favorites]


It's funny when "exploring" having DC become part of Maryland doesn't include talking to anyone from Maryland or DC about it. Just where have you been exploring, Congressman? Up your own ass?

He wrote an idiotic WaPo OpEd saying that the DC having a city council is pointless, because the city is represented by congress. So now everyone in DC, myself included, is contacting his office to ask him to act on our behalf.

So, that's probably part of why he's whining.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 1:06 PM on January 31, 2017 [22 favorites]


BuddhaInABucket: Just wanted to let you all know I'm about to head to a CA-45 protest I helped canvass for. We're expecting several hundreds of people, which is great, but Rep. Walters staff have actually closed the office today to avoid hearing us, which is awful, but we have it confirmed that local media will be there, which is great.

Good luck! I'm stuck at work and can't make it, but I've been leaving voicemails for Mimi all week. Clinton won Orange County (first time a Dem carried in the county basically forever) - there's no reason we still need to have GOP representation on Congress, Walters, Issa, and Rohrabacher need to know they're on borrowed time moving forward.
posted by Arbac at 1:06 PM on January 31, 2017


Anonymous Group Reveals Direct Phone Numbers For White House Staff
The group hopes that people will use the resource to let staffers know how they feel about certain policies to "demand fairness and transparency in the policy making process." They recommend you call as many numbers as you can until you reach someone. "Just like you would call your member of Congress, calmly share your views with the White House. You have the right to be heard," the spokesperson told us.
posted by Coventry at 1:06 PM on January 31, 2017 [38 favorites]


As far as fictional analogues for Trump go, I have a pretty obscure but appropriate one.

When I was a kid, one of my guilty pleasures was a British children's series called Astrosaurs, basically a Star Trek-esque series about dinosaurs in space. The fifth book is named The Skies of Fear, and its main villain is a character named Grandum, who runs for election for the leadership of the planet the book is set on.

Grandum is very obviously a cartoon villain - he's rude, arrogant, and crass toward everyone, but especially people who oppose him and the planet's established leadership. Despite this, he manipulates enough of the planet's people into supporting him over the incumbent leader, who wants to hold back the election over shady circumstances that Grandum himself orchestrated. When a judge consistently supports his opponent (who is competing fairly) over him, he promptly has the judge removed and replaced with one of his yes-men. He supports and works with the foreign and business interests of a neighboring planet which wants to turn the planet he is supposed to lead into a waste dump and reduce his people to slaves (once he's elected, he says, it becomes his planet and he can do what he wants with it).

Being a idealistic children's book, of course Grandum is defeated and his plan exposed and foiled. But the real world, unfortunately, is not idealistic.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 1:08 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Anonymous Group Reveals Direct Phone Numbers For White House Staff

Thanks, Obama
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:09 PM on January 31, 2017 [18 favorites]


"#NeverTrump NeverHappened" watch #772342112: National Review’s Sad Surrender to Trump: "A year ago, the magazine proudly declared that it was "Against Trump." Now it's defending the president against his many critics. What gives?"
posted by zachlipton at 1:10 PM on January 31, 2017 [11 favorites]


Profiles in Courage nominees need to be elected officials.

Noooooooo! I missed that, seeing only the public servant part. As I said, quickly thrown together at work. Thanks for pointing that out!
posted by orbit-3 at 1:11 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Southwest Airlines Wants the Department of Transportation to "Put America First":

"Southwest Airlines is facing criticism for asking the Department of Transportation to grant them landing rights at Mexico City's international airport because of President Trump's "America First" policy."

Southwest urges the Department to grant all U.S. carrier requests in full before allocating any MEX slots to Mexican carriers. Not only would this be consistent with the Trump Administration’s clearly stated goal to put America’s interests first, but there is no basis for depriving U.S. carriers of scarce MEX slots in order to increase the holdings of Mexican carriers that already have vastly more slots than all eligible U.S. carriers combined.

posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:15 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Stand up to Trump*

A new UK movement in the offing, from Owen Jones:
Many US presidents have been responsible for injustices at home, and even graver injustices abroad. It nonetheless needs repeating – until we are blue in the face – that this is not a normal president. The usual playbook of opposition does not apply to an authoritarian, bigoted demagogue who does not conform to democratic norms. A proto-fascist will not be defeated by a few rousing renditions of Kumbaya.

There will be those in Britain who say: this is none of our business – Trump is for Americans to deal with. His whopping loss in the popular vote aside, he triumphed in the US election. Americans are not exactly known for appreciating foreigners sticking their noses into their internal affairs, least of all Brits, given the small matter of the war of independence, and the fact that British troops burned down the White House in 1814.

Of course Americans must lead the movement against their president. We’ve already seen an unprecedented number of Americans protesting: in the Women’s March and in spontaneous demonstrations against the executive order. This is heartening, and the very least we can do is express our solidarity.
* I know it's been said repeatedly before (including by me), but the the one slight silver lining in the terrifyingly dark cloud of his election for UK pun aficionados is that his name is quite literally a synonym for fart. President Fart.

Perhaps the Simpsons' writers are actually writing reality.
posted by Buntix at 1:16 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Southwest urges the Department to grant all U.S. carrier requests in full before allocating any MEX slots to Mexican carriers. Not only would this be consistent with the Trump Administration’s clearly stated goal to put America’s interests first

Pfft. A true American airline would never fly to Mexico, so they should have no need of a MEX slot.
posted by nubs at 1:20 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Starting to get a little tired of The Simpsons prophesying everything.

This is more like a Treehouse of Horror episode.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:24 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


don't blame me i voted for kodos
posted by entropicamericana at 1:25 PM on January 31, 2017 [22 favorites]


I don't want to think this is their plan, but it really seems like these executive orders are starting to fit together.

it's "soft" ethnic cleansing as a prelude to the kind we're all generally more familiar with.
posted by poffin boffin at 1:26 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


If you voted for Trump you are dead to me. I am cutting everyone out of my life who voted for him, plain and simple. Don't care how long I've known you, what good times we may have shared in the past. I'm done.
posted by maxwelton at 1:27 PM on January 31, 2017 [51 favorites]


So...how can we try and stand up for national parks if Congress votes to allow drilling there? I'm concerned about that and am interested in possible moves to fight back.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 1:29 PM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


If you voted for Trump you are dead to me. I am cutting everyone out of my life who voted for him, plain and simple.

you're lucky to have the option. i have two trump voters living in my in-law unit and i'm going to be increasingly financially responsible for them as social services are slashed to the bone over the next several years.
posted by murphy slaw at 1:29 PM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


Fish, fish, are you doing your duty?: "I doubt they were ordered to commit an atrocity, but I do think this operation was a Xanatos Gambit by Bannon -- he gets something he wants no matter how it shakes out. If it's successful, DJT has his Bin Laden moment on Day 10. In the more likely event that it's not, he banks on DJT's sloppy thinking and rushed planning to botch the operation and incite a violent reaction."

This administration makes plans so stupid and obvious that a child could see through them, but Bannon is secretly a master puppeteer who is head-faking us and setting up Reichstag fires?

I understand why being ruled by evil calculating monsters is more appealing than being yoked to idiot children playing with nukes. However, this is Just World thinking: if these people are in control of me, they must be smarter/better/etc. There is no evidence--at all--that anyone in the admin can see 3 feet in front of their face, much less come up with a coherent secret plan to overthrow democracy.

This doesn't keep them from being evil obviously, nor does it mean we shouldn't be concerned about their motivations, and we should obviously fight them. But it would be better if we don't let our fantasies about there being an order here get the best of us. It is only malicious disorder.
posted by TypographicalError at 1:30 PM on January 31, 2017 [20 favorites]


When is the next traditional big family gathering for Americans? It's going to be interesting.
posted by Artw at 1:31 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Mysterious intruder rattles GOP lawmakers
The president of the Congressional Institute, the private nonprofit group tied to Republican lobbyists that organizes the retreat each year, told lawmakers in an email late Saturday that an “unauthorized person” infiltrated the retreat Thursday for nearly 11 hours using “counterfeit credentials.” The intruder was later ejected.
It's not entirely clear from reading the article whether this person was the same person who made recordings and anonymously emailed them to the press.

In other words, these dumbasses want "extreme vetting," but can't manage to vet the people coming into their own strategy session.
posted by zachlipton at 1:31 PM on January 31, 2017 [30 favorites]


it's "soft" ethnic cleansing as a prelude to the kind we're all generally more familiar with.

This quote from a recent (yesterday) Brietbart article might be further evidence of this:

On Sunday evening, a senior administration official briefed reporters on Trump’s American-first migration policy.

“The reality, though, is that the situation [of large Islamic populations] that exists today in parts of France, in parts of Germany, in Belgium, etcetera, is not a situation we want replicated inside the United States,” the official said.

The kind of large and permanent domestic terror threat that becomes multi-dimensional and multi-generational and becomes sort of a permanent feature, in case this, becomes a permanent feature of American life. We don’t want a situation where, 20 to 30 years from now, it’s just like a given thing that on a fairly regular basis there is domestic terror strikes, stores are shut up or that airports have explosive devices planted, or people are mowed down in the street by cars and automobiles and things of that nature…

The United States is sovereign country. It is under no obligation to admit any particular person and we have a right to develop a system in which we’re selecting immigrants that we think will be able to make positive contributions to U.S. society.

posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:31 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Ryan Chapamn: The est. security cost for Melania living 200mi away from Trump is double the annual budget for the National Endowment for the Arts.
posted by PenDevil at 1:32 PM on January 31, 2017 [97 favorites]


When is the next traditional big family gathering for Americans? It's going to be interesting.

For a lot of people, it's going to be Easter/Passover. I haven't spoken to anyone in my family but my sister since December 10th.
posted by Sophie1 at 1:33 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


i'm going to be increasingly financially responsible for them as social services are slashed to the bone over the next several years.

Next time Trump voting brother in law has a life crisis and needs money/to live at our house for a while I'm giving serious thought to vetoing that shit. Certainly one word of "both as bad" and he's out.
posted by Artw at 1:34 PM on January 31, 2017 [13 favorites]


“The reality, though, is that the situation [of large Islamic populations] that exists today in parts of France, in parts of Germany, in Belgium, etcetera, is not a situation we want replicated inside the United States,” the official said.

um, so Brietbart added the "of large Islamic populations" bit? Because even from Trump folks, I'm betting the context really was about terrorist attacks in those countries and the whole "Islamic populations" thing was the meaning of the dogwhistle. Helpful of Brietbart to spell out that it's about keeping Muslims out though.
posted by zachlipton at 1:34 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]




pretty sure my first grader would not understand why grandma and grandpa are homeless even if i did a puppet show of the 2016 election for her
posted by murphy slaw at 1:36 PM on January 31, 2017 [19 favorites]


It's the old "London is sharia law!" bullshit line. I particularly love that one.

What's the current US mass shooting count for the year?
posted by Artw at 1:36 PM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


When is the next traditional big family gathering for Americans? It's going to be interesting.

I forget if it's National White Patriotic Patriots Day or Spontaneous Display of TrumpLove Day next; in either case, I'm sure they expect yuge crowds. Bigly.
posted by nubs at 1:38 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


There will be those in Britain who say: this is none of our business – Trump is for Americans to deal with. His whopping loss in the popular vote aside, he triumphed in the US election. Americans are not exactly known for appreciating foreigners sticking their noses into their internal affairs, least of all Brits

Please send help.

Really.
posted by Preserver at 1:39 PM on January 31, 2017 [23 favorites]


Where is Rudy?
posted by rewil at 1:39 PM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


and if you can't send help, send maltesers
posted by murphy slaw at 1:40 PM on January 31, 2017 [15 favorites]


When is the next traditional big family gathering for Americans? It's going to be interesting

For a lot of people, it's this Sunday's football game.
posted by Mchelly at 1:40 PM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]


So...how can we try and stand up for national parks if Congress votes to allow drilling there? I'm concerned about that and am interested in possible moves to fight back

I'm not sure. I'm not an environmental lawyer...hopefully some of them can help. But as soon as I heard that news I told my spouse that if my company asks me to work with drillers in the future who want to drill in the fucking national parks that's a hard line no for me. This administration could cost me my job in more ways than one apparently, as just yesterday [I think? Losing track of all the bad news] I was saying that the axe 2 regulations for each 1 EO could also cause me to lose my job since it's directly tied to environmental regulations. I am rapidly losing hope.
posted by FireFountain at 1:41 PM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


GOP lawmakers to huddle with Trump ahead of SCOTUS pick: President Donald Trump will mingle with key Senate Republicans on Tuesday evening at the White House ahead of his highly-anticipated announcement on whom he’s chosen to replace deceased Justice Antonin Scalia on the Supreme Court. Among those on the invite list are members of the Senate GOP leadership and Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee, the powerful panel that will vet the eventual nominee. But a broader circle of Republican senators will also attend what's been billed as a reception with Trump. Key Democrats were also invited to the reception, which was arranged by the White House Office of Legislative Affairs, but turned down the outreach, one congressional source said.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:42 PM on January 31, 2017 [10 favorites]


pretty sure my first grader would not understand why grandma and grandpa are homeless even if i did a puppet show of the 2016 election for her

Would the puppet show involve Greg Nog's Marco Rubio song? Because I think that song is, for some damn reason, the only thing that has held me together for several months now.
posted by zachlipton at 1:43 PM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


pretty sure my first grader would not understand why grandma and grandpa are homeless even if i did a puppet show of the 2016 election for her

What will she instead get to "understand" by virtue of them living there and consuming garbage media in her presence instead?

I guess it's easy for me to be glib since I am fortunate enough to not have those folks in my immediate family but I'm wrestling a lot currently with the question of how to be around people who say and support awful shit. I have not yet discussed with my wife the fact that I am really not interested in going to a wedding between a likely Trump voter and her almost certainly Trump-voting husband to be, but the idea of stewing in that cesspit for hours doesn't appeal to me.

The idea of 24/7 being around that influence and having them pour xenophobic poison in my kiddo's ear? I just don't know what I would do.
posted by phearlez at 1:45 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


I just called my senators (Franken and Klobuchar) - had to talk to local staff as the DC office lines were busy. Nice kids, polite, I think Franken seems to get it better. Told them to vote no, filibuster, and refuse unanimous consent - every day of delay and resistance is another day of freedom. I mentioned to the Franken staffer that I'm going to be attending the protest in Minneapolis this afternoon; he said he was aware of it.

I put it on IRL, but if any MeFites in MN wanna meet up at the Minneapolis federal building, give me a shout. I'm going to head over fairly soon because I can't concentrate for shit at work anyway.
posted by nickmark at 1:47 PM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


for Irish Mefites:


I have just phoned Enda Kenny's and Heather Humphrey's offices to support the review of US preclearance arrangements and call for their suspension due to the danger of placing Ireland in breach of international law and our own equality legislation. It literally took 3 minutes, the staff were very pleasant and are getting a large volume of similar calls. Please consider joining me. Enda Kenny's Dublin number is 01 6194598 (his Mayo one is ringing out) and Heather Humphreys' is 047 71911 (I rang her as I am a constituent, it may be more useful to target your own constituency representative). Often resistance feels futile but this is the kind of specific and targeted action which sometimes bears fruit.

only thing else we can do is literally boycott US and Trump businesses but I am heartened by the fact that the 'small people' of Ireland have a great history of resistance see the anti-apartheid changes


Guys, I CANNOT believe I'm writing this that I am treating the USA as an apartheid regime...... HOLY FUCK!
posted by Wilder at 1:48 PM on January 31, 2017 [42 favorites]


like i am not exaggerating when i say they will be homeless without my support

they're basically nice people, they're just unsophisticated and easily led by propaganda. they dote on my daughter and my dog and on good days i'm glad they're here

this is turning into a derail but my main point is that disengaging totally is not an option for many, many people on metafilter or the country at large
posted by murphy slaw at 1:50 PM on January 31, 2017 [28 favorites]


Just want to say I really like Alec Baldwin and I'm sad seeing him losing his job to Mark Hamill
posted by uandt at 1:50 PM on January 31, 2017 [10 favorites]


So...how can we try and stand up for national parks if Congress votes to allow drilling there? I'm concerned about that and am interested in possible moves to fight back.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:50 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


we have a right to develop a system in which we’re selecting immigrants that we think will be able to make positive contributions to U.S. society.

It's also pretty well-demonstrated that radicalisation tends to be less correlated with immigrants than with fucked-up teenage and twentysomething men who seek affirmation and support from like-minded communities, regardless of ethnic origin. MRAs, goobergobs, chan shitlords, etc. Especially if they have easy access to guns.

The reactionary idea is a kind of Cultural Revolution, forced "assimilation", no speaking a language that isn't English in public, bland food trucks on every corner. Which, of course, had fuck-all to do with the assimilation process of "white ethnic" America.
posted by holgate at 1:51 PM on January 31, 2017 [13 favorites]


One more:

it’s just like a given thing that on a fairly regular basis there is domestic terror strikes

But, y'know, angry white dudes committing mass murder is America at its best.
posted by holgate at 1:53 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


to the countries and peoples outside of the USA: I am so very very sorry that this man became our president.
posted by INFJ at 1:53 PM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]


Where is Rudy?

[At the White House "cyber" conference]

He was actually there but was sitting directly across the table from Trump, so all of the cameras were behind him. So when Trump handed it over to him to grovel and scrape, for a while it was like the back of Rudy Giuliani's head was giving a press conference.

Some junior guy I didn't recognize who was also at the table said something about "sitting at the foot of the wise masters" or something like that while gesturing to the rest of them. And of course all of the stuff they said which actually touched on security was nonsense.
posted by XMLicious at 1:56 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Update on the senators from WA: posted by mbrubeck at 1:58 PM on January 31, 2017 [31 favorites]


Resistance from organizations is great. Surely there are also some people with deep pockets who care about the environment and enjoy clean and safe parks and would be willing to help fund any efforts to protect them. I know there are wealthy environmentalists/ liberals who presumably could help resist and pay for lawyers to defend them from these wannabe Looten Plunders.

We can't just let them infect our environment, poison our water, and kill our wildlife like this. National parks belong to everyone, not just businessmen, and the people have the right to defend them.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 1:59 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


we have a right to develop a system in which we’re selecting immigrants that we think will be able to make positive contributions to U.S. society.

. . . and the best way to ensure that is administering a pro-Trump attitudes questionnaire and loyalty oath, which they already test-drove over the weekend.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:01 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Feds detain Katy High School student from Jordan following President Trump's immigration ban
[...]
Officials told Rami that Mohammad could be in the Chicago detention center for as long as two months. Rami said he hopes to hear from Mohammad Tuesday, but that his little brother is only allowed to call once a week for 30 minutes."


I live in Chicago. Is there anything I can do to help Mohammad and Rami?
posted by J.K. Seazer at 2:02 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


A friend is en route to China for work and he's spent the past week trying to figure out how to assure his Chinese client that America isn't like this, and that we're so sorry.

The wonderful specialist physician I have been seeing since April is from one of the seven banned countries and a practicing Muslim. She always goes above and beyond, and she's incredibly proactive in my treatment. Checks on me weekly. She's the best and smartest specialist I've had in a decade. And I keep wondering if and how to bring this up, that I'm sorry. How do I do that?
posted by mochapickle at 2:02 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Have any reporters actually tried asking Giuliani basic questions about cybersecurity? Like does he know what phishing is? Could he broadly describe the mechanisms by which the DNC and Podesta attacks were carried out?
posted by zachlipton at 2:02 PM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]




New Hampshire's senators both declared opposition to the Sessions Attorney General nomination today.
posted by XMLicious at 2:02 PM on January 31, 2017 [15 favorites]


Surely there are also some people with deep pockets who care about the environment and enjoy clean and safe parks and would be willing to help fund any efforts to protect them. I know there are wealthy environmentalists/ liberals who presumably could help resist and pay for lawyers to defend them from these wannabe Looten Plunders.

Natural Resources Defense Council is one of my go-tos for this type of thing. They are effective and have some famous faces (notably Robert Redford) running point. I've made them one of my monthly donations, along with ACLU, PP, and NARAL.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:03 PM on January 31, 2017 [16 favorites]


While I salute the efforts of ACLU this weekend and have nothing but respect for all of their hard-working lawyers (and the unaffiliated immigration lawyers who turned out), I don't know how you can watch what happened and believe that there are any legal avenues left to stop anything this administration wants to do. Even if you find one, the admin will simply declare it illegal by fiat. And the cops will line up behind them, because that's what cops do best.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:15 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Tom Price was trying to avoid press, ran to Senate subway. But then subway BROKE DOWN & he was stuck facing reporter questions
--@BresPolitico

Broke down, or is there a subway driver on our side somewhere?
posted by zachlipton at 2:15 PM on January 31, 2017 [40 favorites]


Guys, I CANNOT believe I'm writing this that I am treating the USA as an apartheid regime...... HOLY FUCK!

Why?

The United States of America has been around for 241 years.

It has been uniformly legal there for interracial couples to get married for only fifty years.

It has been uniformly illegal there to discriminate against individuals based on race, color, sex, religion or national origin for only fifty-three years.

It has been uniformly illegal there to separate public schools by race for only sixty-three years. (Though it took at least another decade for that to be enforced in certain places.)

And the conservative party here has spent the last fifty years reinforcing and reinforcing and reinforcing the idea that patriotism, electoral validity, voting rights, and in fact _being a real American in and of itself_ belongs only to them and their xenophobic ideological kind.

Shining Dumpster on a Hill, more like. Though we do have our moments.
posted by delfin at 2:16 PM on January 31, 2017 [40 favorites]


Make sure that there are enough people in public protests who tie what's going on explicitly to the founding mythology of the United States.

All of my messages about the travel ban include the fact that it is "Illegal, UnConstitutional, UnAmerican and UnChristian." Yes, capitalized like that for maximum impact. I haven't been Christian in at the very least 20 years, but they don't need to know that.
posted by threeturtles at 2:21 PM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


The best I can tell foreign friends on social media is that Trump and Bannon don't represent me and and many other Americans, a great many of us are disgusted and horrified by what's going on here, and are doing as best we can to stand up for what's right.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 2:21 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Skipping to the bottom after reading this,

The soldiers almost certainly had orders to commit an atrocity of some kind,

So, I'm supposed to believe Bannon can reach all the way down to Team 6 and get some Sailors to assassinate a little girl, or the chain of command is willing to sign off on killing an 8 year old just to increase the chaos in their area of operations?

Not buying it at all.
posted by ridgerunner at 2:22 PM on January 31, 2017 [10 favorites]


I don't know how you can watch what happened and believe that there are any legal avenues left to stop anything this administration wants to do. Even if you find one, the admin will simply declare it illegal by fiat. And the cops will line up behind them, because that's what cops do best.

You might be right, but I think it's absolutely critical to force them to do that, for each individual case. First, it can buy some time between the court ruling and the illegal overrule. Second, we're at the point of battling for individuals' hearts and minds. Everyone has a different line in the sand, even if they're not rational or coherent about where they draw them. Forcing the administration to explicitly cross as many lines as possible at this point means more opportunities for people to finally wake up and see what's going on.
posted by biogeo at 2:22 PM on January 31, 2017 [32 favorites]



It's also pretty well-demonstrated that radicalisation tends to be less correlated with immigrants than with fucked-up teenage and twentysomething men who seek affirmation and support from like-minded communities, regardless of ethnic origin. MRAs, goobergobs, chan shitlords, etc. Especially if they have easy access to guns.


Started* watching this (United States of Hate: Muslims Under Attack) earlier after the BBC iPlayer suggested it. The phrase 'heavily armed death-cult' springs to mind.

* It's currently on pause until I feel at least moderately confident that it's not going to lead me to say or do something that would get me on a national security type list.
posted by Buntix at 2:27 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm still at the top of the thread, but if you're looking for sign making materials, look for corrugated plastic cardboard sold at most big hardware stores. They come in a bunch of colours and you can use dry-erase markers on them. The ink will stick around until you wipe it off with a wet cloth, and if it's stubborn, iso alcohol. A 48" by 96" sheet costs about $15 in canada, so probably cheaper where you guys are.

I learned this trick during the Mike Harris years. Good luck.
posted by Sallysings at 2:27 PM on January 31, 2017 [45 favorites]


Well even a guy who I stopped talking to for saying bigoted stuff all the time is praising the ACLU, so that's something.
posted by Zalzidrax at 2:29 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


TypographicalError: I understand why being ruled by evil calculating monsters is more appealing than being yoked to idiot children playing with nukes. However, this is Just World thinking: if these people are in control of me, they must be smarter/better/etc. There is no evidence--at all--that anyone in the admin can see 3 feet in front of their face, much less come up with a coherent secret plan to overthrow democracy.

I must respectfully disagree. It's not that I think Bannon is better or smarter than any of us, necessarily, but he clearly has an agenda, and has had it for a long enough time to plan ways to implement it if he ever got the opportunity. He's already familiar with Washington and the Breitbart electorate, so he knows how certain moves will play both with career party operatives and with potential brownshirts. That much of what we've seen from the White House bears his stamp more than Priebus' indicates that he's outmaneuvering that camp. He knows exactly how to manipulate Trump and seems cold-blooded to shrug off his narcissistic bullshit as long as he gets him where he wants him. He's not coming up with most of this on the fly; he's just tweaking and implementing a vision he's nursed for decades.

Yes, his success is as much a product of the incompetency around him as of his own canniness (I do think most of the rest of the administration is just flailing), but based on his success so far I'm loathe to underestimate him. He didn't push those EOs through because he was too dumb to consult the relevant experts; he did it because he knew everyone's expectation that he would follow SOP left them open to an ambush, and that once the first few went through everyone would be too shell-shocked and demoralized to push back against future circumventions of the appropriate channels.

I've known people like him. I've watched them in action. And that taught me that people can be shockingly easy to manipulate, especially if the only moral question you ask yourself is whether or not a given outcome suits your interests. For someone like Bannon, people aren't individuals. They're fact patterns, cause-and-effect machines. So politics -- from internal office politics to national politics -- just becomes a matter of recognizing which levers to push, and how, in order to consolidate power and neutralize rivals.

You're right -- this isn't a just world. Vision and will aren't always applied in the service of positive outcomes. It's highly likely nobody else in the White House has a plan, but that fucker definitely does.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 2:29 PM on January 31, 2017 [30 favorites]


Fighting for the National Parks/Federal lands:

A blog with a lot of info: http://www.stevebisig.com/the-new-war-on-federally-owned-public-lands/

Script and contact info for the Committee of Natural Resources (from above blog) https://docs.google.com/document/d/10cmFKG3t30XAGQEHNyaVf3DZpx2cJOClgmKdJHCuIuA/edit

I have been using the fax zero to fax this list asking them to oppose 621. My understanding is that you do not have to be in their district to contact them (or to have them consider your voice....if they actually even care, *sigh*)
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 2:30 PM on January 31, 2017 [21 favorites]


COME AMICI

I'VE FRESH SHEEP'S URINE AND ROSEMARY POULTICES FOR YOUR BUNIONS


I am blaming you for the fact that I just reflexively climbed the Pantheon.

Basically you owe me five thousand euros for bail, is what I'm saying.

You guys the polizia were so pissed
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:36 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


So how do we properly oppose Bannon, if he's the mind behind a great deal of the evil we're facing and is both smarter and more conniving than Trump? My initial thought was to try and force him into the light and expose him as a puppetmaster, tie him to Trump as Cheney became generally known as the puppetmaster behind Bush, grab a microphone and broadcast every hideous remark he made now and in the past to the world. His ilk thrives on spinning their work in secrecy, on not being seen and known, so the entire nation and the entire world has to know his name, his status as a Nazi, and the hateful, broken planet he is working for.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 2:39 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Get CNN to insinuate that he's the one really in control and get Trump to throw him off in narcissistic rage?
posted by dinty_moore at 2:41 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


I don't know how to oppose Bannon. Hillary Clinton stood on stage and detailed his terribleness but no one apparently listened to her.
posted by zutalors! at 2:43 PM on January 31, 2017 [53 favorites]


You might be right, but I think it's absolutely critical to force them to do that, for each individual case.

Be the caltrop you want see hobble the enemy.

They are one enemy going after everyone not like them. We are everyone and have have a multitude of options. Some that will work, many that won't. But it only takes one.
posted by Buntix at 2:43 PM on January 31, 2017 [14 favorites]


can we stop pretending that we can troll Trump into firing his one henchman who pisses off the liberals more than anything? it's not gonna happen. we burned through all our brilliant "one weird trick to make Trump totally self-destruct!" schemes last year, none of them worked, he's the motherfucking president now and they're probably having a nice rheumy rich-asshole chortle over this "President Bannon" stuff we think is totally going to yank his crank
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:47 PM on January 31, 2017 [22 favorites]


threeturtles, you can still say it's unChristian because that's factually true. If anyone disputes your bona fides, tell 'em I sent you.
posted by tel3path at 2:49 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Spicer: "No American citizen will ever be targeted."

Yeah. That didn't last long. Here's the walkback, using Eric Holder's words.
posted by zachlipton at 2:53 PM on January 31, 2017 [11 favorites]


Perhaps more importantly, Trump has to see Bannon right now as the guy who delivered. I think he'll grin and bear the "President Bannon" stuff, even if it actually does get under his skin (which I'm not convinced it does).

If you want to actually drive a wedge between them, you need to break Bannon's ability to deliver anything. But that requires that there are people in a position to block him who are also inclined to use their position for that purpose.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:53 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


The one useful thing about the "President Bannon" stuff is not so much that it pisses off Trump but that it spreads the word that a literal Nazi has the President's ear and is using his position to help push toxic, destructive, and divisive policies. We have to focus on fighting both of them.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 2:54 PM on January 31, 2017 [16 favorites]


I'm a bit lost, and my head isn't keeping facts straight.

So I'm going to interrupt or regularly scheduled thread for a minute and talk about resiliency.

Psychologists and social workers have studied this for a long time: how do people in terrible situations turn out okay?

The most important factor is close supportive relationships. It doesn't have to be family, but generally is. In addition early childhood development: attachment to a caregiver who is consistent.

Other factors include: making and carting out plans, good self esteem, good communication skills, good problem solving skills, ability to manager strong impulses and feelings.

Some people are resilient without most of these factors and many skills can be learned or improved upon.

So, the most vulnerable people are those with no positive relationships and early childhood trauma, who use mind altering substances regardless of initial circumstances.

So what can we do? The most important thing to do is keep families and supportive communities together. The immigration ban hampers relationships and childhood development. It is Really really important to fight things that mess with families. In addition referring/helping isolated people find supportive communities is super important.

Secondly, Empower the vulnerable with resources to be able to plan for their own lives and do the things that will keep them safe.

Thirdly assist with self esteem , communication and problem solving in ways people find useful.
posted by AlexiaSky at 2:54 PM on January 31, 2017 [33 favorites]


you need to break Bannon's ability to deliver anything

And I particularly favour this as a strategy because it's just the goddamned right thing to do even if it doesn't succeed in getting Trump to fire Bannon.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:54 PM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


Trump trip canceled; Harley-Davidson wasn't comfortable with likely protests
President Donald Trump will not head to Milwaukee for a previously scheduled visit of a Harley-Davidson factory after the company decided it wasn't comfortable hosting him amid planned protests, an administration official said Tuesday.
Good. If you're an odious person, people don't want to be seen with you.
posted by zachlipton at 2:56 PM on January 31, 2017 [144 favorites]


It is a bummer that they phrased it as not wanting to be around the protestors rather than not wanting to be around Trump, but yeah that's a good step.
posted by IAmUnaware at 2:59 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


It is a bummer that they phrased it as not wanting to be around the protestors rather than not wanting to be around Trump, but yeah that's a good step.
posted by IAmUnaware at 3:59 PM on 1/31


Exactly. Make him poisonous.
posted by azpenguin at 3:03 PM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


For my fellow Senator Feinstein constituents - I'm extremely heartened by her No vote on Sessions ("Yesterday, early in the evening, we clearly saw what a truly independent attorney general does…I have no confidence that Senator Sessions will do that."), but I thought you'd also like to know about her letter from yesterday to Sally Yates asking whether the Executive Orders are really being reviewed by the Office of Legal Counsel and whether they will be, going forward.
posted by kristi at 3:04 PM on January 31, 2017 [29 favorites]


As protests spread over policy announcements from the Trump administration, Democrats must work to encourage participation in politics, but face a danger of the party becoming too radicalized, Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Burbank) said Tuesday.

“The radical nature of this government is radicalizing Democrats, and that’s going to pose a real challenge to the Democratic Party, which is to draw on the energy and the activism and the passion that is out there, but not let it turn us into what we despised about the tea party," Schiff said.


This just pisses me the hell off. You aren't seeing Democrats (or soon-to-be-former Democrats) "radicalizing." You're seeing us react to the inaction of you and other members of Congress who are allowing everything good about this country to erode -- to be stolen, actually -- in front of our eyes. Don't insult us by calling us "radicals." It's the same word the other side uses to dismiss us. FUCKING LISTEN TO US INSTEAD, YOU USELESS WASTE OF VOTES.
posted by mudpuppie at 3:05 PM on January 31, 2017 [78 favorites]


(There was supposed to be a link in that comment. Not sure where it went. Here it is.)
posted by mudpuppie at 3:07 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Every victory like this, however small, is important. It shows the world that there is a loud and present opposition to the administration which will not go away and will not be silenced, and we can get up his nose as much as we can. Make people and businesses unwilling to associate with or support him, if only for fear of being shamed.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 3:07 PM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


So the radical nature of this government is radicalizing Democrats, and our politics are getting too political. Got it. Thanks 2017.
posted by erratic meatsack at 3:09 PM on January 31, 2017 [21 favorites]


TV Idea: Trump supporters that want him to fire everyone that makes him angry are forced to run a Burger King
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:13 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


John Scalzi: A Fortnight of Trump

These people are both ignorant and stupid, and while on one hand that’s a silver lining — it blunts the effectiveness of the previously-mentioned malignancy — on the other hand the fact that a great nation installed these bumptious yahoos in the first place says very little good about us.
posted by porn in the woods at 3:13 PM on January 31, 2017 [22 favorites]


Democrats truly do encompass the pure bland insipidity of the lawful neutral alignment.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:14 PM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]


A little levity to break up the horror:

Trump Draws a Twitter account that has meme'd a gif of Trump proudly showing an EO to the press, but replaces the EO with crude (in terms of ability) drawings.
posted by miguelcervantes at 3:16 PM on January 31, 2017 [13 favorites]


The McDonald's deliveryman has an observation:
"The roll-out of this executive order was terrible," Christie says. He doesn't agree w/Trump but says president was poorly served by staff.
--@jdawsey1

And a little story about Congressional phone lines being jammed with calls. Keep calling.
posted by zachlipton at 3:17 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Here's what is claimed to be and what very much looks like one of Trump's billets doux to Scary Spicer.
posted by Devonian at 3:19 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Being evil is easy y'all.

It's why all major religions spend so much time warning against it.

It's practically humanity's default setting.
posted by srboisvert at 3:20 PM on January 31, 2017 [24 favorites]


And the above applies to Trump's henchmen, too. Hammer Bannon. Hammer Alex Jones. Hammer Thiel. Hammer Sessions and every member of the Swamp Cabinet. Hammer Milo and hammer Infowars and Breitbart. Shame them. Make them hide their faces in public and make every horrible thing they say and do public and known.

They destroyed Hillary by tying her to lies and exaggerations. We can tie them to the truth of their lies and their own hateful behavior.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 3:21 PM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


can we stop pretending that we can troll Trump

No. It's been like 10 days, and historically it's a long troll to overthrow dictators.

And it's not like it's a limiting factor on the resistance that disables alternative approaches.

On the other hand, if there's a sure-fire plan B that we can all get behind...
posted by Buntix at 3:21 PM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


As a child of the 60's, I can tell you this is the stuff we have always been fighting against. It never went away.

I remember women marching in the streets, flinging off their bras. That was a big deal, back then. Open talk about birth control.

Heck, I was a single mother in 1982 and I got all kinds of flack for it. Either I was a slut or I was "so brave." There were no laws to make the father pay child support, if he didn't want it, so bad, so sad, you were on your own.

I remember going through the state program to teach single mothers and displaced homemakers, that is, women who were older but their husbands had left them, how to learn office skills. Can you imagine that today? Displaced homemakers? But it was a thing, in 1982. And the government had a program to teach them to type and be good little secretaries.

One thing that stuck out at me, is that we had to type up the resumes of the young men going through the trades program. As they needed our help. And they would be making a lot more than we would as office workers, but we were expected to help them. I don't begrudge the young men of the day, but I do begrudge the times: women are office workers, men learn the real jobs. As a single mother, I hit the glass ceiling in office jobs pretty quickly, let me tell you.

Oh, I did try to join the services and was told that a pretty young thing like me would be just answering the phones.

My niece joined the Navy and she is now a nuclear engineer. So we have made strides, great strides, since 1982.

What I want to say to you, each and every one of you, is that this is a horrible turn that our country has taken. It was not even this bad in the Reagan years, when I was waking up every day worried about a nuclear holocaust. But it is obvious, to many people, that these guys are heinous, and we have the ability to not only talk about it freely, but to organize and protest, and with many more tools than I had in 1982. I didn't even pay attention to politics back then, except to vote. It's amazing! We can talk to each other, in an instant! Back then, we might have read something in a newspaper or seen it on the nightly news. This is such a gift!

Thank you all so much for informing me. I try very hard to follow it all, I was a legal secretary for a while, and have worked at corporate offices, and have seen all the handshaking and crap that goes on. And at the same time, trying to deal with my own anxiety and pulling back once in a while to just, you know, deal with my own life. But I do appreciate it so much, and please, keep up the good fight! I love you all.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 3:27 PM on January 31, 2017 [210 favorites]


Thanks, Marie for a needed Mr. Rogers reminder. Failure is not an option!
posted by foonly at 3:34 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Sign at the Minneapolis protest: "We are not acting like the neighbors Mr Rogers knew we could be."
posted by nickmark at 3:34 PM on January 31, 2017 [23 favorites]


“The radical nature of this government is radicalizing Democrats, and that’s going to pose a real challenge to the Democratic Party, which is to draw on the energy and the activism and the passion that is out there, but not let it turn us into what we despised about the tea party," Schiff said.

Oh, so he wants to talk to us like he's Marco Fucking Rubio, does he? Have at it, bub. Seriously, he thinks there's a shortage of likely democrats to replace his ass with, in HOLLYWOOD? Please.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:36 PM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


President Trump and International Relations Theory [pdf]:
I never thought that I would write the phrase “President Trump,” let alone link it to IR theory. But the former is a great opportunity for the latter. Scholars of international politics bemoan the fact that our sub-field cannot draw on the experimental method. Well, now we can. Although Trump’s election was not a random event, nevertheless much about America’s external environment will remain the same after January 20, 2017 while the country will have a president who has espoused foreign policy views radically different from those of any of his predecessors. Once in office, will he really try to carry out such radically different policies? Or will domestic and international constrains prevail? We are about to run an experiment, and even if the results are not likely to be entirely unambiguous, they should provide us with real evidence.
posted by Kabanos at 3:37 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Liberty University President Jerry Falwell Jr. says he has been asked to lead a presidential task force on higher education reform.

Falwell told The Associated Press he spoke with Steve Bannon, President Donald Trump’s senior strategist, on Tuesday about the role. He says the details of the task force are still being sorted out, but the aim will be “to get the government off the backs of higher education.”

WHAT.
posted by futz at 3:38 PM on January 31, 2017 [53 favorites]


Short answer: Yes. Yes, he will.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 3:38 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Liberty University President Jerry Falwell Jr. says he has been asked to lead a presidential task force on higher education reform.

Falwell told The Associated Press he spoke with Steve Bannon, President Donald Trump’s senior strategist, on Tuesday about the role. He says the details of the task force are still being sorted out, but the aim will be “to get the government off the backs of higher education.”


That doesn't sound the least little bit like threatening an imminent purge of the secular humanist intelligentsia and scientific community. Not at all.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:43 PM on January 31, 2017 [37 favorites]


WaPo: Mysterious intruder rattles GOP lawmakers

For hours, the intruder strolled around what should have been one of the most tightly secured buildings in the country.... A person secretly recorded closed sessions on national security and health care that were attended by many dozens of GOP lawmakers. They had gathered for a private discussion of some of the thorniest legislative issues of the moment, as well as a question-and-answer session with Pence.
posted by porn in the woods at 3:44 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Just got a message from ACA Works, I submitted a story a few weeks ago and they're definitely going through the submissions and compiling them - if you've got a good story to tell about how the ACA helped you I'd definitely recommend it.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:46 PM on January 31, 2017


Can we circle back to the excellent "Shock Event" article...

Nobody in either thread seems to have mentioned that that post is a summary of Naomi Klein's 2007 book The Shock Doctrine. (Also a 2009 documentary.) Check it out when you're not out at the airport or downtown in front of somebody’s office. Part of Klein’s theory is that the neocons test drove this idea around the world, to perfect it before they brought it on home to try out in America.
posted by LeLiLo at 3:47 PM on January 31, 2017 [13 favorites]


That doesn't sound the least little bit like threatening an imminent purge of the secular humanist intelligentsia and scientific community.

More like a purge of the public tertiary sector -- which, for sure, is not without its flaws -- in favour of "non-profit" private institutions run by gobshite godbothering hucksters. Nobody thinks Liberty is a real university anyway (apart from right-wing wingnut welfare employers) so why should they have to follow Title IX and other standards?
posted by holgate at 3:48 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Liberty University President Jerry Falwell Jr. says he has been asked to lead a presidential task force on higher education reform.

I went to high school in Lynchburg, Virginia in the late 80s, when Falwell Sr was still alive and fucking things up for everyone else. I worked in a movie theater and remember leaving the back doors unlocked so Liberty University students would be able to sneak out, since they weren't allowed to go to the movies. So I'm sure Falwell Jr. learned some sane educational policies from his dad.
posted by bibliowench at 3:48 PM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


Where are you guys getting local phone numbers for the senators?

Pro-Tip: My local Pantsuit spinoff group has been meeting with staffers at our Senators' offices today. When they have complained about not being able to get through to someone the staffers have given out their personal and/or direct phone numbers and emails. Which are then posted to the FB group. This has also happened with ways to reach specific people who work in my House Rep's office which has been posted to my local Indivisible group.

So if you want a more effective way to reach someone, find your local groups.
posted by threeturtles at 3:48 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


he's gonna fly 'em off
a seven-nation arbitrary holding back
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:49 PM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


So there's a bridge in Sacramento that has been shut down because a woman (or man, depending on which untrustworthy, too-soon source you consult) is claiming to have a bomb. And that has been translated on social media into a "protester" is on the bridge threatening to blow it up.

This is a good example of why you don't call angry, politically active democrats "radicals."
posted by mudpuppie at 3:49 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]




For hours, the intruder strolled around what should have been one of the most tightly secured buildings in the country.... A person secretly recorded closed sessions on national security and health care that were attended by many dozens of GOP lawmakers. They had gathered for a private discussion of some of the thorniest legislative issues of the moment, as well as a question-and-answer session with Pence.

Anyone taking bets on Trump's insecure personal phone?
posted by tocts at 3:50 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


This is a strong message from the CEO of Insomniac Games, Ted Price, condemning the immigration ban. In the promo for their upcoming PS4 Spider Man game, which is also included in the article, there's a subtle dig against Trump in the voiceover.
posted by emelenjr at 3:51 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


“to get the government off the backs of higher education.”

That's a pretty nuts thing for Falwell to say. Liberty wouldn't exist without federal aid, they receive around a billion dollars a year from the federal government.
posted by peeedro at 3:53 PM on January 31, 2017 [34 favorites]


Addendum to the above: if you're in Canada, you still have time before Parliament convenes to call your MP and ask that they support the rescinding of the Safe Third Country Agreement and to immediately assist those locked out of the United States.
posted by chrominance at 3:55 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Marie is absolutely right. Plenty of us here can remember political times that would make your liberal livers curl. During the Thatcher years it was illegal to "promote" homosexuality in schools, a head tax was imposed on everyone in the UK over the age of 18 and if you didn't pay it you couldn't vote (a lesser publicized detail, that our democratic leader had introduced a tax on suffrage), and... all kinds of stuff that I don't even remember any more because there was so much of it.

Plus the expectation that a nuclear holocaust would limit your lifespan, a fear that was continuously and deliberately drilled into us by the culture and by adults. I read an interpretation of the Nostradamus prophecies that suggested nuclear war would come in 1986 so I lived my teenage years in fear of 1986. This is probably why I have always lived in fear of the future and have never been able to bear to plan even as far as five years into the future (beyond retirement planning, and that was and is still filled with dread because as a pink-collar worker that has been beyond my means for 75% of my career so far).

And yes, even that wasn't as bad as this, watching Annoying Orange try to knock down the foundations of democracy by banging his head against them repeatedly.

On the other hand, if you read the Margaret Atwood story, "When it happens", that's kind of what this feels like. Because I was also filled full of Holocaust literature and warnings to keep on the watch. Well now it's here. And as it turns out, I'm not the only one who's ready for it. The monster has finally crawled out from under the bed and asked me what I'm gonna do about it. What *we're* gonna do is, we're gonna win. And if we absolutely can't win, we'll just have to die trying.

I know I'm the Girl Least Likely To Actually Achieve This but I would like God to say to me, when I get home, "well done, my good and faithful servant". Annoying Orange and Bannon and his kind, well, none of us ever has enough information to judge in this way, but to all appearances, they are having their reward in full. Talk about a lump of fossil fuel in your Christmas stocking.
posted by tel3path at 3:56 PM on January 31, 2017 [41 favorites]


You also have some nerve calling your place "Liberty University" when you won't allow anti-Trump opinions in the college newspaper (source).
posted by zachlipton at 3:56 PM on January 31, 2017 [14 favorites]


Anyone taking bets on Trump's insecure personal phone?

Nah, whoever owns that isn't gonna give it up for such inconsequential leaks, I'm sure they'll wait until they've got something much juicier, if they release anything publicly at all.

I wonder how many separate people/organizations/governments are currently fighting over the root account on that device.
posted by contraption at 3:57 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]




I'm frankly not in the least bit surprised about Bannon or about Liberty U. Liberty has something of a presence where I live - at my local community college I see students with Liberty shirts and many people, teenagers and adults, who plan to go there. Very few people see anything wrong with the school or how it's run or the way it operates, if only because a lot of them don't know.

I graduated from a liberal arts college in MA . Both of my parents and a good friend are college professors. I'm planning to attend library science studies at grad school. So to say I'm concerned about a blatantly partisan diploma mill potentially messing with policy for real colleges and grad schools is an understatement.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 3:58 PM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'm about in the middle of the Minneapolis march. We're turning up Hennepin and the crowd reaches about three blocks ahead and behind me.
posted by nickmark at 4:01 PM on January 31, 2017 [27 favorites]


It makes me so angry they are claiming that most of their calls are out of state. This is why you shouldn't call from out of state, you all. You give them the excuse on a platter to ignore us.
posted by winna at 4:02 PM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


I guarantee, even if it was only one person from out of state who called accidentally by dialing the wrong phone number, they'd still use that excuse.
posted by downtohisturtles at 4:03 PM on January 31, 2017 [18 favorites]


I still don't trust Schumer, but this is a good step. Schumer Votes Against McConnell's Wife
Schumer is under increasing pressure from liberal activists to fight Trump at every turn following the protests over the president’s executive order on immigration. The New York Democrat was asked on Tuesday if he was trying to send a message with his vote against Chao. Schumer said he wasn’t, but he laid down a new standard for any nominee to get his support: “My view,” he told reporters, “is that every nominee to the Cabinet should state their position on this executive order.” Schumer said Chao did not respond when Senator Bill Nelson of Florida asked for her opinion on Monday, and therefor he voted against her nomination on the floor.
Every Republican should have to be on the record about this.
posted by zachlipton at 4:04 PM on January 31, 2017 [43 favorites]


That's a pretty nuts thing for Falwell to say. Liberty wouldn't exist without federal aid, they receive around a billion dollars a year from the federal government.

Yeah, I'm guessing that the "getting government off the backs" of public universities bit is about ending horrible oppressive stuff like academic freedom.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:05 PM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


Washington Examiner: GOP introduces national right-to-work legislation

Republicans in Congress plan to introduce legislation Wednesday that would prohibit workers nationwide from being forced to support a union. The national right-to-work legislation likely would be a major blow to organized labor because it would allow millions of workers to opt out of union membership for the first time.
posted by porn in the woods at 4:06 PM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]


Lololol that's fucking hilarious about the mysterious intruder.

These idiots couldn't secure a wet paper bag.
posted by tel3path at 4:06 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm at the protest outside McCain's Tucson office. There's probably 1000 here right now and people are still getting here (started an hour ago.) Loud but positive crowd. Passing cars are honking a lot of support. Truck with an air horn gave several blasts going by and the crowd got really going. If you can make a protest, go. They're good for the soul.
posted by azpenguin at 4:08 PM on January 31, 2017 [20 favorites]




The national right-to-work legislation likely would be a major blow to organized labor because it would allow millions of workers to opt out of union membership for the first time.

That's Donald John Trump for you, self-proclaimed friend of the working man.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 4:10 PM on January 31, 2017 [16 favorites]


If only Budweiser's ad agency was in charge of the brewing side of the operation...
posted by peeedro at 4:12 PM on January 31, 2017 [13 favorites]


Pony requests:
(a) Can someone make an animated GIF of Trevor Noah's middle finger dance?
(b) If there's any way to hook people up with pussy hats...I've got an extra around and I'm almost done with another and plan on making a few more, though I have issues getting to the post office during their open hours so I probably can't mail anything out super fast (more like, maybe next Saturday).
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:13 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Serious question: how do police unions feel about "right to work?"
posted by uncleozzy at 4:16 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Speaking of tertiary education, there's been a petition going around to boycott conferences organized in the US.

I... can't see the good sense of such a thing? When science and academia are under fire? And if this is in solidarity with colleagues who face travel restrictions, wouldn't that mean they'd be forced to leave the USA in order to attend conferences and possibly risk not being allowed back?

Call me dense, I just don't see how such a thing would help
posted by tel3path at 4:17 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Serious question: how do police unions feel about "right to work?"

They look forward to enforcing it for the rest of us.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 4:19 PM on January 31, 2017 [33 favorites]


Was there really an intruder at the GOP retreat, though, or are they basically saying "We know one of the high-level officials recorded those meetings and leaked them, and we're trying to figure out who"?

Surely that woman who was arrested for claiming to be a Senate spouse couldn't have recorded those meetings -- and even if she did, how did she know what rooms to bug? I am confused.
posted by vickyverky at 4:20 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


kanata I would love a hat, and I can cover shipping & supply costs!
posted by insoluble uncertainty at 4:21 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


I just realized it's completely hypocritical for Trump voters to say people should stop using the term "Muslim ban" (both the individual words and the phrase), since they totally went after Clinton and other Democrats for not saying "Islam".

It's so obvious that Spicer's attempt to "correct" the media is "politically" motivated.
posted by FJT at 4:22 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Yeah... the police have hardly been historical allies of unions, looking back to the days of Pinkerton infiltrators and policemen cracking the heads of union organizers on behalf of folks like Rockefeller and Carnegie.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 4:22 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]



Serious question: how do police unions feel about "right to work?"


Quite a few of these laws exempt police (and sometimes firefighters).
posted by thefoxgod at 4:23 PM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


"the one slight silver lining in the terrifyingly dark cloud of his election for UK pun aficionados is that his name is quite literally a synonym for fart."

I can see this catching on in the States as well -- "oops, sorry I Trumped"; "alright you guys, who Trumped?"; "oh no, grandpa's got the Walking Trumps again" ...
posted by TwoToneRow at 4:24 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Serious question: how do police unions feel about "right to work?"

I give it about 90 percent that it won't apply to them. "Public safety" unions (cops, firefighters, prison guards) are always exempted from stuff like that because they're pretty reliable Republican voters.
posted by Etrigan at 4:25 PM on January 31, 2017 [17 favorites]


Okay we all laughed at that 'Drink a can of America' stunt they pulled last year, but they're starting to earn it with that commercial.
posted by TwoWordReview at 4:25 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Drink a can of hot, fresh, yellow America
posted by Existential Dread at 4:27 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Uber is feeling the pressure: I got an email in response to my account deletion telling me that "We wanted to let you know that Uber shares your views on the immigration ban: it's unjust, wrong and against everything we stand for as a company. If you want to learn more, click here."

(I deleted anyway. Those of you in big/medium cities, look into Moovn, a black-owned ride app...)
posted by TwoStride at 4:29 PM on January 31, 2017 [13 favorites]


Also, if you'd like a brief bit of cheer, J.K. Rowling continued to be on fire today, scorching all idiots who tried to come at her on Twitter...
posted by TwoStride at 4:30 PM on January 31, 2017 [19 favorites]




TBH, you'd want a less well-trained unit for a predictable atrocity. A bunch of overly pumped up and terrified rookies in over their heads followed by some screams, panic and a few thousand rounds of random shooting.

In other words, "militarized" civilian police...
posted by en forme de poire at 4:37 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


> Bannon sounds like he's getting his Goebbels on [...]

Unsettling Echoes: Joseph Goebbels (1933), Sean Spicer (2017), Steve Bannon (2017)
posted by tonycpsu at 4:42 PM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


You know, tonight's reality show that makes SCOTUS look like a giant joke may be an intentional move.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:43 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


People denying it's a Muslim Ban should tell it to fucking MAGAtwitter, who are celebrating that very aspect of it.
posted by corb at 4:43 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Debating if I want to listen/watch the announcement, and how best to do so.
posted by samthemander at 4:45 PM on January 31, 2017


Went to the "Speak out against Muslim ban" protest in Minneapolis tonight. Big crowds out in the cold, sounds like 5,000+ people? I took the train downtown with the little boy I babysit and we met his parents there. He and I made a sign for him that read "Donald Trump, don't be a bad guy!" (Lots of superhero talk lately). It feels good to be involved, even in a small way. An incredible learning experience for him, too.

Thanks again to everyone in these threads for being here and sharing information and support. It's my main news source and I'm thankful for it.
posted by sucre at 4:45 PM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


Smokey the Bear reminds us: Only You Can Prevent Fascist Liars.

(This is my favorite version of the meme thus far)
posted by TwoStride at 4:46 PM on January 31, 2017 [18 favorites]


Given today's USA Today article detailing Bannon's views on Islam, "ban" is too soft a word.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:48 PM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


You know, tonight's reality show that makes SCOTUS look like a giant joke may be an intentional move.

It sounds like the confluence of multiple influences:

a) Airing it on FB live allows him to "stick it" to the news, reach his core demo, and it also has easily manipulated viewership numbers that he will undoubtedly brag about

b)The competition/spectacle element lets him draw it out until after a "commercial break" for himself and his policies

c) By having 2 candidates on, he can call attention to how the Dems plan to delay voting on either.
posted by JauntyFedora at 4:48 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Don't watch
posted by birdheist at 4:48 PM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


Trump: ELECTION YEAR. The horror movie.
posted by Buntix at 4:51 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


jenfullmoon - please check your MeMail
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 4:51 PM on January 31, 2017


Eric and Don Jr. are there, because we're just not pretending they're off running the business somewhere.
posted by zachlipton at 4:52 PM on January 31, 2017 [10 favorites]


There were a bunch of songs written about how Bush II (The Bush Unwakens) was kind of dumb. Many of them apply to our current president. Perhaps my favorite one was Let The Monkey Drive by Sparks which make the fun juvenile point that Bush looks like a monkey but also has an implicit critique of the people who supported Bush (as represented by the singer and his paramour in the car). This song has been bringing me some grim comfort today.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:53 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Drink a can of hot, fresh, yellow America

That's what Donald said to the mattress.
posted by nickmark at 4:56 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


My political song of choice is Fun & Games, which was written about Bush but seems equally applicable to Trump and his crew.

That, and the entirety of Pink Floyd's Animals (as I teach myself the art of karate, all the better to make some eyes water).
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 4:57 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


I most certainly won't be watching because I expect it to be very similar to his Vic Presidential Nominee roll out. He talked about himself for 40 minutes, introduced Pence, then walked off backstage.

Fun little bit about Paul Ryan (with video):

Raw Story Waste of my f*cking time’: Hot mic at GOP press conference catches griping as Paul Ryan walks away
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:59 PM on January 31, 2017 [15 favorites]


Also it makes SCOTUS appear to uninformed America like they are employees of the Trump White House, which sets us up for future ignoring of judicial decisions.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:00 PM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


In case you wondered about how the ACLU would be using their recent donations, said to be $24 million, TechCrunch has some interesting information. A Silicon Valley company which normally advises startups has been engaged to advise the ACLU on how to maximize this donation pool. The advising company, Y Combinator, has ties to Peter Thiel, but the ACLU does not think this will be a problem at this time.

I'm impressed that the organization recognizes that this cash influx can do special things if used wisely, and I hope this partnership works out. They pay the company nothing, and will be allowed to remain in New York through the process. Most accepted startups must be located in the Silicon Valley, but the company has agreed to send mentors to New York, given ACLU's heavy workload at this time.
posted by Silverstone at 5:03 PM on January 31, 2017 [13 favorites]


Watching Trump do this announcement surrounded by press I'm baffled at how anyone can stand in that room and not throw their shoe at him. I think I would do it. How long could you go to jail for?
posted by dis_integration at 5:04 PM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


It's Gorsuch.
posted by zachlipton at 5:04 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Thanks for watching so we didn't have to.
posted by corb at 5:06 PM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


Judge Gorsuch looks like he is literally holding his wife up.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:08 PM on January 31, 2017




This Falwell news is so wonderful to hear, a couple of days after I submitted my application to finish my bachelors degree in social sciences. Tra la la, I'm off to drink heavily.
posted by palomar at 5:09 PM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


can we stop pretending that we can troll Trump into firing his one henchman who pisses off the liberals more than anything? it's not gonna happen. we burned through all our brilliant "one weird trick to make Trump totally self-destruct!" schemes last year,

Nope. Going to keep doing anything and everything, all the time.
posted by bongo_x at 5:12 PM on January 31, 2017 [23 favorites]


Raw Story: White House spokespeople will no longer appear on CNN because it doesn’t ‘promote’ Trump agenda

Shitty for our democracy. But probably good for CNN viewers.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:13 PM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


I pray that Democrats afford Mr Gorsuch the same respect and fairness that Republicans afforded Mr Garland
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:15 PM on January 31, 2017 [90 favorites]


Just got back from the Minneapolis refugee ban protest. About 5000 people I guess according to reports.
posted by ian1977 at 5:15 PM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


White House spokespeople will no longer appear on CNN because it doesn’t ‘promote’ Trump agenda

Good. Now maybe CNN and other similar organizations will stop worshiping the false idol of "access" and start doing some fucking journalism. But I'm not going to hold my breath.
posted by biogeo at 5:16 PM on January 31, 2017 [50 favorites]



Raw Story: White House spokespeople will no longer appear on CNN because it doesn’t ‘promote’ Trump agenda

Shitty for our democracy. But probably good for CNN viewers.


Au contraire, it's good for our democracy. They should keep the mouthpieces off all the networks. Journalists don't need to entertain propagandists, and if they don't have them to easily eat up air time, maybe they'll have to do some actual reporting themselves.
posted by dis_integration at 5:16 PM on January 31, 2017 [41 favorites]


And that, friends, is what stealing a Supreme Court seat looks like.
posted by zachlipton at 5:16 PM on January 31, 2017 [15 favorites]


Also, hotels and bars will save $$$ because I won't throw my shoe at the TV nearly as often
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:16 PM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


Did they just make CNN the official voice of the resistance? Did they just do that? 'Cause I think that's maybe what they did.
posted by saysthis at 5:21 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Of course it's CNN, so they won't get there without a little help...from us...
posted by saysthis at 5:23 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]



Good. Now maybe CNN and other similar organizations will stop worshiping the false idol of "access" and start doing some fucking journalism. But I'm not going to hold my breath.


Looking at you Rachel Maddow. Actually i'm not.
posted by zutalors! at 5:23 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Since Trump has already filed papers for 2020, maybe Dems should wait until the end of his campaign to confirm.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:23 PM on January 31, 2017 [63 favorites]


Thirty plus fucking years of Scalia 2.0
posted by Talez at 5:23 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]




White House spokespeople will no longer appear on CNN because it doesn’t ‘promote’ Trump agenda

My first though was GREAT!
Next thought was maybe all the 'MSM' will now report the truth and shoot from the hip.
And then I reached 'oh shit' the WH is orchestrating this to finally eliminate any access to the Administration by 'MSM' thereby setting or propping up Propaganda News and that is fucked up. Not surprising at all but ALL kinds of fucked up.
posted by futz at 5:24 PM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


Here is what the Dems should argue going forward. "We are committed to following the established precedent of the McConnell Rule: no Supreme Court Justice should be confirmed during the Presidential campaign season, so that the voters can express their will at the ballot box. Since President Trump has already officially begun, his 2020 campaign, we cannot vote for any justice, no matter how qualified. We will follow the McConnell Rule. Once the campaign season has ended, we can hold confirmation hearings for the new President's nominee."

Transparent bullshit, of course, but make the Republicans eat at the table they set.
posted by biogeo at 5:24 PM on January 31, 2017 [175 favorites]


You say that like it'll be the only channel denied access, saysthis. I'd give it a month before Fox News is the only one left, and that's probably a strong overestimate given how fast things are moving already.
posted by flatluigi at 5:25 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Dammit RobotVoodooPower!
posted by biogeo at 5:25 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]



In case you wondered about how the ACLU would be using their recent donations, said to be $24 million, TechCrunch has some interesting information. A Silicon Valley company which normally advises startups has been engaged to advise the ACLU on how to maximize this donation pool. The advising company, Y Combinator, has ties to Peter Thiel, but the ACLU does not think this will be a problem at this time.

I'm impressed that the organization recognizes that this cash influx can do special things if used wisely, and I hope this partnership works out. They pay the company nothing, and will be allowed to remain in New York through the process. Most accepted startups must be located in the Silicon Valley, but the company has agreed to send mentors to New York, given ACLU's heavy workload at this time.


So, I'm really needing a satire/not-satire tag on this. I mean I am like 87% certain it's really nicely composed dystopian meta-commentary... 28% wondering if it's sincere (and yes, there's overlap).
posted by Buntix at 5:25 PM on January 31, 2017


And the delegitimization of mainstream media continues. Announcing that spokespeople will no longer appear on CNN is ostentatious, and drives the faithful that much closer to only accepting the given word of the Donald. Or Imortan Steve.
posted by ZeusHumms at 5:26 PM on January 31, 2017



You say that like it'll be the only channel denied access, saysthis. I'd give it a month before Fox News is the only one left, and that's probably a strong overestimate given how fast things are moving already.
posted by flatluigi at 9:25 AM on February 1 [+] [!]


Then they better move quick and capitalize.
posted by saysthis at 5:27 PM on January 31, 2017


You say that like it'll be the only channel denied access, saysthis. I'd give it a month before Fox News is the only one left, and that's probably a strong overestimate given how fast things are moving already.

Well, Bill O'Reilly dissed Trump the other day, so............. But it's OK; the President still has Zuckerberg News Network.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:28 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


> pantywaist

I will never understand how a term of derogatory reference that Americans invented can be so repeatedly misspelled. Pantywaist is, however, perfectly spelled-checked. Go figure.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 5:30 PM on January 31, 2017


So, I'm really needing a satire/not-satire tag on this. I mean I am like 87% certain it's really nicely composed dystopian meta-commentary... 28% wondering if it's sincere (and yes, there's overlap).

No, it's real. Sam Altman, the current head of YC, has come out as being against Trump. But YC still haven't separated themselves from Peter Thiel, who is apparently a personal friend of Sam's. I assume this partnership is happening because Sam Altman legitimately wants to help, but he really ought to put his own house in order first.
posted by panic at 5:32 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Well, Bill O'Reilly dissed Trump the other day, so............. But it's OK; the President still has Zuckerberg News Network.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:28 AM on February 1 [+] [!]

And Voice of America (not sure how skeevy that source is but it's the first on google and there are others that verify it). But so what? They want to disown the mainstream, let's have the mainstream join the resistance. God knows we could use the help, and like we showed with ACLU, we obviously have money too. If they want to shut down America, make them ban free speech altogether.
posted by saysthis at 5:33 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


> Given today's USA Today article detailing Bannon's views on Islam, "ban" is too soft a word.

A view directly into Bannon's horrific mind. Thanks, USA Today. Half of Trump's talking points are there in Bannon's Breitbart radio show.

I recommend reading the link if, like me, you were wondering what the hell motivated Bannon. It turns out it's a paranoid xenophobic racist Islamophobia obsessed with a "clash of civilisations". He thinks further US war in the Middle East is imminent.
posted by Quagkapi at 5:35 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


I can never access USA today no matter what I do.
posted by futz at 5:36 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


I just realized that the reason Trump was going crazy about having had 1.5 million at his inauguration wasn't about beating Obama. It was about beating Nuremburg.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:36 PM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


Buntix, it's a genuine news story. Y Combinator publicly welcomed the ACLU. I leave it to wiser souls than I to judge as to the surrealism of this partnership. My thought is that the ACLU felt they could gain more good from the mentors than possible risk that the Thiel connection presents. Time will tell if they are correct.
posted by Silverstone at 5:37 PM on January 31, 2017


Gorsuch is another zealot. Instead of a liberal court for the first time since the 60s, we're dangerously close to right wing rule from the bench for eternity, overturning every last bit of progress made since the end of the civil war. It's hard to overstate what we just lost tonight, no, what Republicans stole from us, and from America.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:38 PM on January 31, 2017 [33 favorites]



No, it's real. Sam Altman, the current head of YC, has come out as being against Trump. But YC still haven't separated themselves from Peter Thiel, who is apparently a personal friend of Sam's. I assume this partnership is happening because Sam Altman legitimately wants to help, but he really ought to put his own house in order first.


I was really more meaning the whole treating the the ACLU as a startup thing, e.g.

"They pay the company nothing, and will be allowed to remain in New York through the process. Most accepted startups must be located in the Silicon Valley, but the company has agreed to send mentors to New York, given ACLU's heavy workload at this time."

On re-reading, I am up to about 96.78% sure it's just very nice snark.
posted by Buntix at 5:38 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Here is what the Dems should argue going forward. "We are committed to following the established precedent of the McConnell Rule: no Supreme Court Justice should be confirmed during the Presidential campaign season, so that the voters can express their will at the ballot box. Since President Trump has already officially begun, his 2020 campaign, we cannot vote for any justice, no matter how qualified. We will follow the McConnell Rule. Once the campaign season has ended, we can hold confirmation hearings for the new President's nominee."

This is brilliant. Every ridiculous underhanded anti-Democratic anti-American thing the Republicans have done needs to be leveled back at them just like this, loudly and publicly. It may not stop Trump from forcing his nominee in, but the public should constantly be reminded what a bunch of lying childish cowards the Republicans have been and still are. If the nation survives this Bannon thing we need to do everything in our power to make sure it's damned hard for a Republican to hold public office afterward.
posted by IAmUnaware at 5:39 PM on January 31, 2017 [46 favorites]




"...Neil Gorsuch, of the United States Supreme Court, to be, of The United States Supreme Court."

GWB the 2nd.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:40 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


It turns out it's a paranoid xenophobic racist Islamophobia obsessed with a "clash of civilisations".

Ugggh.

I've heard talk like that before, but in very different circumstances and where the speaker was roundly criticized and condemned for those remarks (and not invited back).
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:41 PM on January 31, 2017


Just saved the USA today article at archive.is for others also having problems viewing it
posted by futz at 5:41 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


And Voice of America (not sure how skeevy that source is but it's the first on google and there are others that verify it)

Shit, I have to boycott Voice of America now too? I use their "Learning English" news site in some of my ESL conversation classes. It's a decent tool, too bad the VOA parent org is apparently a tool as well.
posted by p3t3 at 5:43 PM on January 31, 2017


This great article about Steve Bannon being abusive to his wife, not unlike our President being abusive to his ex-wife.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 5:43 PM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


Speaking of tertiary education, there's been a petition going around to boycott conferences organized in the US.

I... can't see the good sense of such a thing? When science and academia are under fire? And if this is in solidarity with colleagues who face travel restrictions, wouldn't that mean they'd be forced to leave the USA in order to attend conferences and possibly risk not being allowed back?

Call me dense, I just don't see how such a thing would help


It took some time, but boycotts helped bring down apartheid in South Africa.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:47 PM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]


The ACLU ycombinator thing is not snark.

That's their blog and multiple outlets are reporting it including CNN.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:47 PM on January 31, 2017


Seeing them successfully steal Obama's SCOTUS seat has me down as far as I've been this entire time, worse than the election night even. That should've been Obama's transformative legacy, and we were all robbed by fucking Mitch McConnell.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:47 PM on January 31, 2017 [57 favorites]


It's twilight in America.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:50 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Just like Merrick Garland, Neil Gorsuch is a respected judge. He should receive the same type of fair & honest consideration in the Senate.
--@RepMarkTakano

I hate to compare anyone to the greatest, but that's approaching Rep. Maxine Waters levels of shade right there.
posted by zachlipton at 5:50 PM on January 31, 2017 [96 favorites]


Seeing them successfully steal Obama's SCOTUS seat has me down as far as I've been this entire time, worse than the election night even. That should've been Obama's transformative legacy, and we were all robbed by fucking Mitch McConnell.

And so were they. We're all the poorer for this.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:52 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


And now Obama's Solicitor General is giving Democrats cover not to filibuster.

I want to drink all the bourbon in my house. And trust me, I own a lot of bourbon.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:56 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Fuck Mitch McConnell. Fuck Bannon. Fuck Trump. Fuck Gorsuch.

Fuck them all.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 5:56 PM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


What the fuck do the Democrats have to lose at this point? I don't get it at all.
posted by zutalors! at 5:58 PM on January 31, 2017 [18 favorites]


Of course they're afraid to filibuster for two to four years. These are largely the same Dems we've had for recent memory. A decent number of them are principled but few are all that brave when it comes to political risk. They still have their seats to lose.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:58 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Primary them. Primary every single one of them.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:00 PM on January 31, 2017 [24 favorites]


Fuck Mitch McConnell. Fuck Bannon. Fuck Trump. Fuck Gorsuch.

Don't forget Schumer and the rest of the Senate Dems while you're at it. (I'm not as hard on the House Dems because they have less power when they're in the minority.)
posted by tobascodagama at 6:02 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Then let's make them lose their seats next time.

I'm committing, here and now: if my senators, Maria Cantwell and Patty Murray, do not oppose this SCOTUS nom to the bitter end, I will work to primary them out.
posted by palomar at 6:02 PM on January 31, 2017 [34 favorites]


They still have their seats to lose.

And we need to make sure that happens. Any so called Dem who votes for this pick is worth burning the country down to punish. It's burning down already, we might as well go down with people who are willing to pick up the buckets and help put out the flames.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:02 PM on January 31, 2017 [18 favorites]


This business of not filibustering is the first time I've really thought "we're going to have a new party in this country if we're not goose-stepped into a one-party state". The democrats may be more culturally aligned with us, but beautiful souls aren't any use if they won't stand up for us.
posted by Frowner at 6:02 PM on January 31, 2017 [36 favorites]




Primary them. Primary every single one of them.


I'm getting really sick of their emails asking for money.
posted by zutalors! at 6:03 PM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


Primarying them will require people to -actually step up-, and -be counted-.

My representative district options here were "Tea Party" or "Republican with Tea Party ties." There's no lack of blue voters in the district, but they're not real good at standing up and being counted when push comes to shove.
posted by Archelaus at 6:03 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


I am fucking incensed at the idea of any Democrat thinking they were elected to throw women and LGBTQ people under the bus, in the name of being "reasonable" or whatever. Burn this shit to the ground. Protests will be daily, motherfuckers.
posted by erratic meatsack at 6:04 PM on January 31, 2017 [53 favorites]


More than that, if Kaine or Warner votes for this pick, I work against them in the primary, but if that fails, I'll leave the Senate line blank next time no matter who is the opponent. At least the Republicans tell me they're going to shoot me in the face, rather than lie about stabbing me in the back.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:04 PM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


I am fucking incensed at the idea of any Democrat thinking they were elected to throw women and LGBTQ people under the bus, in the name of being "reasonable" or whatever. Burn this shit to the ground. Protests will be daily, motherfuckers.
posted by erratic meatsack at 10:04 AM on February 1 [+] [!]


Yup.
posted by saysthis at 6:05 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


They still have their seats to lose.

So what? I've been wondering this for days about (probably imaginary) principled Republicans who are keeping quiet because they're afraid of being primaried from the right. Senators are not vulnerable people who will struggle if they lose their jobs. Aren't most of them wealthy? Wouldn't most of them get jobs at lobbying firms or think tanks or white shoe law firms? Why are they so afraid of losing their seats? I understand that being a Senator is probably a really awesome job for a certain kind of person, but Jesus Christ, not being a Senator is not a hardship and not worth rolling over and playing dead for this administration.
posted by Mavri at 6:06 PM on January 31, 2017 [24 favorites]


Anyone keeping a list of Dems who don't obstruct and filibuster? I'm planning to contribute to individual progressive democratic candidates over the next two years, so I want to know who to contribute to and who to try to primary.
posted by antinomia at 6:06 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Raw Story: White House spokespeople will no longer appear on CNN because it doesn’t ‘promote’ Trump agenda

Nowhere in either the Raw Story piece or its Politico source did I read that CNN would be terminating the contracts of their paid Trump shills. Nowhere can I find that the administration will quit funneling the Trump agenda to these people for them to spout. When the shills are gone, I'll believe that this is meaningful in the sense that CNN wants to take this opportunity to improve its journalistic behavior and reputation.

It isn't that CNN could not possibly be journalistically adequate. It's more that only rarely do their moderators even try to insist that paid shills answer actual questions, rather than pivoting to the party line of the day. When that situation improves, then we'll talk.

It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if CNN lost access journalism. They could do a lot in the way of independent and investigative journalism. Who knows--maybe their ratings would improve if they did this.
posted by Silverstone at 6:07 PM on January 31, 2017 [15 favorites]


So I was kind of down because two crotchety old bigots separately managed to pick me out of the crowd at the end of the rally in front of Barbara Lee's office in Oakland today to try commiserating with (don't worry, I told them to crawl back in their holes) but J.K. Rowling filling the burn ward has been just the pick up I needed. From that link above—
J.K. Rowling @jk_rowling — "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." -- Winston Churchill

Frogulus Pepe 🐸 @FrogulusPepe — Quote very fitting to @realDonaldTrump. He stands up for something very very good and you are his enemy Mrs Shitty Writer.

J.K. Rowling ‏@jk_rowling — *sighs* Well, who knows? If I try harder, I might be reincarnated as a lonely virgin hiding behind a cartoon frog.
posted by books for weapons at 6:09 PM on January 31, 2017 [83 favorites]


When the shills are gone, I'll believe that this is meaningful in the sense that CNN wants to take this opportunity to improve its journalistic behavior and reputation.

Exactly. Tell 'em.
posted by saysthis at 6:12 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


I love my senators (Stabenow and Peters), and I'm pretty sure they're all in (here's Stabenow next to a lovely art piece), but yeah, if they cave, I'm done.

If the Democratic Senate overall caves or makes nice or sucks up in any way, I'm done with the party. And I say this as someone who has voted 99.999999999% Democratic for 38 years. It's not about power or winning or revenge or getting back on top. It's about doing the right thing no matter how reviled or powerless one is.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:12 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm impressed that the organization recognizes that this cash influx can do special things if used wisely, and I hope this partnership works out. They pay the company nothing, and will be allowed to remain in New York through the process. Most accepted startups must be located in the Silicon Valley, but the company has agreed to send mentors to New York, given ACLU's heavy workload at this time.

check it out, y'all! we're getting free financial advice from venture capitalists! they even let me take a ride around in their fancy Tesla! this sure is the bee's knees!
posted by indubitable at 6:15 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Your small moment of kindness for the hour, about the photo above: The story behind the viral photo of Muslim and Jewish children protesting at O'Hare
Yildirim, a store manager from Schaumburg, had come to the airport with his wife and four children to bring cookies to the lawyers offering pro bono services to immigrants that had been detained.

I'M not crying at work, YOU'RE crying at work

And if we're still doing a mini-collection of protest-rage songs, may I suggest Dixie Chicks - Not Ready To Make Nice (about the Bush administration but still relevant) / Dead Kennedys - Nazi Punks Fuck Off / The Distillers - Seneca Falls / anything Janelle Monáe has ever done but especially Cold War + Q.U.E.E.N. + Many Moons + Dance Apocalyptic
posted by nicebookrack at 6:15 PM on January 31, 2017 [35 favorites]


Speaking of snark: today's Partly Political podcast is bringing it to Trump on a shit-cannon platter.
posted by Buntix at 6:20 PM on January 31, 2017


I'm listening to Phil Ochs's Here's to the State of Mississippi, which could use a bit of an update for the Age of Trump (but not by much, which is the depressing thing).
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:22 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]






Detroit family caught in travel ban, mother dies waiting to come home

Her son:
Hager was born in Iraq and fled during the Gulf War. He lived in a refugee camp with his family for four years before settling in the United States. In the 2000s, he returned to Iraq where he worked as a contractor for the United States Special forces between 2003 and 2008 as an interpreter and cultural advisor. He even survived being shot in the back while serving.

He's a US citizen, his family (including his mother) held green cards. She was 75. They all had lived in the US for 20 years.
posted by flatluigi at 6:28 PM on January 31, 2017 [37 favorites]


My friends, I give you today's (so far) "you can't make this shit up" grand prize winner, the inimitable Ted Cruz.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:28 PM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


Gorsuch is why Trump released that LGBTQ executive order this morning.
posted by dirigibleman at 6:28 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Dead Kennedys - Nazi Punks Fuck Off

All November 9th I had "We've Got a Bigger Problem Now" running through my head.
posted by indubitable at 6:34 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


12min of Adam Curtis that is relevant right about now.
posted by rhizome at 6:34 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Democrats who have said they will vote no on Gorsuch: Brown, Wyden, Merkley, Warren, Markey. Leahy leaning no.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:35 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


So far Brown, Markley, and Warren have all come out with statements opposing Gorsuch.

Burr (My Senator) will probably lick his balls and tell us how tasty they are.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:35 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


ha ha ha go jump up your own ass and die, Ted Cruz
posted by palomar at 6:35 PM on January 31, 2017 [18 favorites]


Any CNN reporter's response to Cruz should always be "Is there a reason I am speaking to a pile of rats in an ill-fitting human suit?"
posted by delfin at 6:38 PM on January 31, 2017 [26 favorites]


WaPo: Resistance from within: Federal workers push back against Trump

We definitely need more of this, but Gingrich's quote is a dark reminder of what we're up against:
[Gingrich] cited an analysis by the Hill newspaper that showed that 95 percent of campaign donations from employees at 14 federal agencies went to Hillary Clinton last fall.

“This is essentially the opposition in waiting,” Gingrich said. “He may have to clean out the Justice Department because there are so many left-wingers there. State is even worse.”

Gingrich said Trump might push for civil service revisions to make it easier to fire federal workers. He predicted that the public would back the president over federal employees.
posted by p3t3 at 6:40 PM on January 31, 2017 [17 favorites]


What makes me so sick about this nomination is that after he is confirmed (after the filibuster is nuked), he'll be writing opinions about Our Traditions and The Law without ever mentioning that he got the job by the Republicans shattering one of Our Traditions.
posted by kerf at 6:41 PM on January 31, 2017 [10 favorites]


Ennh, given that Trump will probably (unfortunately for us and the world) get a second Supreme Court pick, and that one a replacement for one of the liberal justices, I think it makes sense to hold the filibuster for that seat. It's gonna get killed for Supreme Court appointments the first time the Democrats try to use it so they should use it when they can make the biggest bang. And filibustering, say, a hard-right replacement for Ruth Bader Ginsburg is a far bigger bang than this guy replacing Scalia. Yes that sticks in the craw because they stole the seat but given that the Dems can't actually prevent this from happening, filibuster or no, it makes more sense to make them kill the filibuster over RBGs seat (or Breyer, or...) than Scalia's.

By all means primary insufficiently motivated Democrats but lets not start talking about refusing to vote for them at all over a tactical difference on when to make the Republicans kill the filibuster for SC nominations when I think there are good reasons to prefer it to happen on the next seat rather than this one.
posted by Justinian at 6:41 PM on January 31, 2017 [11 favorites]


Oh, and the idea that the troops were ordered to kill that little girl on the special forces raid is crazypants batshitinsane. Pizzagate level.
posted by Justinian at 6:41 PM on January 31, 2017 [29 favorites]


I have known many rats. They are intelligent, sensitive creatures scientifically documented to be capable of altruistic behavior and empathy. I would rather talk to a pile of rats in an ill-fitting human suit than Ted Cruz.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 6:42 PM on January 31, 2017 [28 favorites]


“This is essentially the opposition in waiting,” Gingrich said. “He may have to clean out the Justice Department because there are so many left-wingers there. State is even worse.”

It's so weird, right? It's almost like federal workers might vote against the guy who wants to make it easier to fire them, freeze their pay, increase their workload by preventing them from hiring more staff, publicly declares how bad they are at their jobs, and demands their absolute loyalty on everything.
posted by zachlipton at 6:44 PM on January 31, 2017 [47 favorites]


Oh Ted Cruz, your transparent and predictable horribleness is my anchor in this uncertain world of your and every Republican's making:

Cruz says there’s precedent for keeping ninth Supreme Court seat empty October 26, 2016
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:45 PM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]




Oh, and the idea that the troops were ordered to kill that little girl on the special forces raid is crazypants batshitinsane. Pizzagate level.

It's also a strawman, but hey, keep swinging.
posted by IAmUnaware at 6:46 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


By all means primary insufficiently motivated Democrats but lets not start talking about refusing to vote for them at all over a tactical difference on when to make the Republicans kill the filibuster for SC nominations when I think there are good reasons to prefer it to happen on the next seat rather than this one.

The people need leadership now. Hope now. Reason to trust these Democrats, now. Losing the filibuster later gives us nothing other than anger now, and more anger later. This argument has never made the tiniest bit of sense. It's dead already, leaving the feeding tube in is just draining the kid's inheritance to pay the bill.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:47 PM on January 31, 2017 [18 favorites]


Oh hey, it's Scaramucci up to something shady. Who would have thought? Trump Aide’s Deal With Chinese Firm Raises Fear of Tangled Interests
posted by zachlipton at 6:47 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Way way backthread, but:

I reread Evans' Coming when Trump won the nomination and while it's great it doesn't really illuminate much about our present situation.

I've been rereading Evan's The Third Reich in Power, which is the subsequent volume and focuses on the Nazification of Germany prior to the outbreak of WWII. One thing it does point out over and over again to me is the utter futility of the opposition to the Nazis (and there was at least ideological opposition) by German citizens -- the ways in which private opposition is meaningless unless it has some sort of effect on the broader government.

I find detailed interpersonal politics tedious, so I can't whole-heartedly recommend Hitler's Thirty Days to Power, but the final chapter -- which summarizes the *other* paths that history could have taken -- is quite good and quite chilling.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 6:49 PM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


It's also a strawman, but hey, keep swinging.

But... you said flat-out that it was almost certain the troops were ordered to commit an atrocity. Like... that's exactly what you said. If you mean you meant they were ordered to commit a different atrocity entirely then... uh, ok.
posted by Justinian at 6:49 PM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]


Oh, and the idea that the troops were ordered to kill that little girl on the special forces raid is crazypants batshitinsane. Pizzagate level.

It's also a strawman, but hey, keep swinging.


You are literally the person who first advanced the idea in this thread. What definition of "strawman" are you using that doesn't include someone citing something that you said? That is some Spicerian level of spin there.
posted by Etrigan at 6:51 PM on January 31, 2017 [18 favorites]


This argument has never made the tiniest bit of sense.

It makes a lot of sense to me; the symbolism of the Republicans killing the filibuster over RBG's seat would be much greater than that of Scalia's. Symbolism is important.
posted by Justinian at 6:51 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


I feel like people on the side of not filibustering now to "save it for later" somehow believe that it won't just get killed the first time it gets used, no matter when it gets used. Not using it now is a sign of spinelessness and a lack of will to resist.

I mean, it's not like the duplicitous fucks in the GOP will suddenly go 'wow, that was really nice of you! we'll make sure to let you use it later as thanks~'
posted by flatluigi at 6:51 PM on January 31, 2017 [56 favorites]


Threats to primary are largely ineffective; one may occasionally actually succeed, but incumbents win their primaries by even greater margins than their general election, so by the time the threat is clear, it is far too late to have any effect on behavior. We certainly need to call every centrist Democratic senator and pressure them to filibuster, but the only credible threat would be petitions with tens of thousands of Democratic same-state constituents promising not to vote for them in a general election if they vote to confirm. But that's the sort of hardball that people around here have generally frowned upon, since it requires being willing to potentially lose Senate seats in '18 or '20. But without that potential outcome, any threats are toothless. Are folks around here actually up to that?

(Additionally, "saving up" the filibuster is hopeless. When the Republicans nuke it, it's not like they can't also pass the same nominee, so it's just a matter of when to get nuked, not actual outcome differences. And in that case, the optics of filibustering now, in the aftermath of unprecedented SC cheating by Republicans and in the midst of plummeting Trump approval, is likely to be much better than after a year or two when things may be less chaotic and the Democrats have effectively affirmed in the previous SC fight (now) that SC filibusters are so extreme that they aren't even deserved in the face of universally acknowledged Republican cheating.)
posted by chortly at 6:52 PM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]


Symbolism is important.

Exactly, and right now we need some symbol that Democrats are willing to stand against this administration at all, on anything.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:52 PM on January 31, 2017 [41 favorites]


The people need leadership now. Hope now. Reason to trust these Democrats, now.

Yes. Every time I see a Democrat talking about anything, even Elizabeth Warren, our supposed hero, I just think "Wow, those are some nice words. What do they mean?"
posted by zutalors! at 6:53 PM on January 31, 2017 [14 favorites]


Threats to primary are largely ineffective; one may occasionally actually succeed, but incumbents win their primaries by even greater margins than their general election, so by the time the threat is clear, it is far too late to have any effect on behavior.

This assumes that the primaries are going to look like they always have before, and that nobody's going to run opposed to them on a platform of "their lack of resistance is how we got into this situation."

I don't think that's a safe assumption.
posted by flatluigi at 6:54 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


TD Strange: I get it, we have a difference of opinion on when the Democrats should force the Republicans to kill the filibuster. Maybe I'm right, maybe you're right. But what makes no sense to me is threatening not just to primary the Dems but to refuse to vote for them at all if they disagree on the timing. Not on opposition or on making the Republicans kill the filibuster for one of the SC seats, but just because they wanted it to happen on RBG's seat instead of Scalia's. That's Judean People's Front level splintering over relatively minor tactical differences.
posted by Justinian at 6:55 PM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


But that's the sort of hardball that people around here have generally frowned upon, since it requires being willing to potentially lose Senate seats in '18 or '20. But without that potential outcome, any threats are toothless. Are folks around here actually up to that?

2018 Senate is a lost cause anyway, it's the best time to make good on these threats. Let them all lose. Who care if Republicans gain 60 seats if they're passing everything they want with 12-15 Democratic collaborators anyway. If there's a country still standing by 2020, the Senate map looks better for retaking it.

If they vote for Gorsuch, fuck them. Cut them off. Primary everyone. If that fails, stay home.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:56 PM on January 31, 2017 [16 favorites]


FWIW, I'm all for primarying anyone who actually votes for Gorsuch.
posted by Justinian at 6:58 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Symbolism is important.

Almost everything that has happened in US politics over the last year disagrees.
posted by Copronymus at 6:58 PM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


I feel like people on the side of not filibustering now to "save it for later" somehow believe that it won't just get killed the first time it gets used, no matter when it gets used. Not using it now is a sign of spinelessness and a lack of will to resist.

I think the theory is that in between now and That One Moment (you know, the one we keep waiting for, when Democrats are just so outraged they start doing everything they can to resist) there will be other, lower-key fights. Dems will use the filibuster then, and the Republicans, because it's a less important issue to them, will not use the nuclear option. So the benefit to not provoking a stand-off now is the ability to filibuster some number of less important moves in the meantime.

To be clear, I think this is a bad theory. But I'm guessing it's how Dems are justifying this to themselves.
posted by galaxy rise at 7:01 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Yes let's just not vote at all, what a great idea. Brilliant. I'm angry, too, but come the fuck on.
posted by gatorae at 7:02 PM on January 31, 2017 [10 favorites]


That's Judean People's Front level splintering over relatively minor tactical differences.

You're also making the assumption he gets a second pick. He might not. It's like saving your timeout in the Super Bowl when you're down 14. All we have is this one time out, and we don't know how long the game is, but we know we're down 2 scores and the clock is ticking down. Call it now and maybe we'll get another chance. Or save it and mount that timeout on the wall while Mitch McConnell is hoisting the Lombardi Trophy and confetti rains down.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:03 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


"Judge Gorsuch, do you have a position on the legality of receiving stolen goods?"
posted by holgate at 7:04 PM on January 31, 2017 [16 favorites]


There's a funny bit in the NYT profile of Garland:

In a 2002 article reflecting on Justice White’s death, Mr. Gorsuch criticized the Senate’s handling of judicial confirmations. “Some of the most impressive judicial nominees are grossly mistreated,” he said, mentioning two candidates for the federal appeals court in Washington who he said were “widely considered to be among the finest lawyers of their generation.”

One was John G. Roberts Jr., who went on to become chief justice of the United States. The other was Judge Merrick B. Garland, who was confirmed to the appeals court in 1997 after a long delay, but whose nomination to the Supreme Court last year was blocked by Senate Republicans.

posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:05 PM on January 31, 2017 [24 favorites]


I also really think that resisting confirming Neil "I cried when Scalia died and pledged my life to be even worse than he was" Gorsuch is not a thing to pass on and definitely not something low stakes. He's extremely far right.
posted by flatluigi at 7:07 PM on January 31, 2017 [23 favorites]


I don't know what the point of voting for Democrats is if they're going to cave to a white supremacist, sexist, anti globalist regime. Being anti those things are the values I thought I shared with them.
posted by zutalors! at 7:07 PM on January 31, 2017 [63 favorites]


Who care if Republicans gain 60 seats if they're passing everything they want with 12-15 Democratic collaborators anyway.

Senate seats last for 6 years. Is demanding a few weeks of the right symbolic gestures worth 6 years of a tactical reduction in capability?
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 7:07 PM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


As a "good Christian", Gorsuch should also know what Jesus had to say about hypocrites.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 7:07 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


I mean, at the simplest level, for him to be confirmed he either needs 60 votes or the Republicans have to get rid of the filibuster. If enough Democrats don't vote for him, he doesn't get to 60. If that happens, is that Democratic obstructionism? Or is that just the confirmation process working as it has for hundreds of years? Could we simply say: "the nomination requires 60 votes, so the President should have nominated someone who would have been acceptable to at least eight Democrats. He didn't?"
posted by zachlipton at 7:08 PM on January 31, 2017 [24 favorites]


The Times has a graphic based on a study classifying various potential nominees on an ideological spectrum. It's one study, but it puts Gorsuch to the right of Alito and Scalia, left of Thomas.
posted by zachlipton at 7:11 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


I don't think asking the Democrats to resist is too much to ask, nor do I think that choosing to elect someone else who better fits the needs of the people when the primaries come up is as ridiculous as a statement as some of you are making it out to be. Why shouldn't they be replaced with different people if they aren't willing to actually represent their electorate?
posted by flatluigi at 7:12 PM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


Democratic Senators from states that went big for Trump are probably thinking if they vote no they'd never hear the end of it from the Republican party. On the other hand, the Republican party would probably find some other angle of attack if they voted yes.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:12 PM on January 31, 2017


Anyway Republicans said "eight is enough" if Hillary was elected, even McCain.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:12 PM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


Is it possible that Gorsuch could turn out to be more liberal, the way Earl Warren turned out to be?
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:14 PM on January 31, 2017


Of course the Dems should filibuster. They have leverage, that's the exact time to start making demands. The nominee may still get in, but for christs sake, at least get something out of it. It'll teach Trump to negotiate.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:14 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


> But that's the sort of hardball that people around here have generally frowned upon, since it requires being willing to potentially lose Senate seats in '18 or '20. But without that potential outcome, any threats are toothless. Are folks around here actually up to that?

I'm one of those people who's always advanced the notion that sub-optimal Democrats in purple states are worth keeping around in the Senate because at least you have them for the really important votes -- for filibusters, or for cloture if you're on the 60 vote side, etc. Even the shitty Dems voted for the ACA, and that's saved many lives. No Republican in those seats was going to vote for the ACA, and there was zero margin for error. I was for primarying Joe Lieberman -- that didn't work out, but he still voted for the ACA. I would have been strongly against primarying Ben Nelson or Mary Landrieu, even though they were just as bad as Holy Joe, because their seats would have been guaranteed to flip to the opposition party.

In the intervening years, however, new shit has come to light. The Court is the last meaningful bulwark against every wet dream of Heritage wonks and neo-Nazis alike from becoming the law of the land, and it's been stolen. These are the highest stakes imaginable, and all Democrats need to do is use the exact same tactics that the opposition did to steal the nomination in the first place. If they can't be counted on to do that, then they can't be counted on for anything else in the future, and I don't blame anyone for not caring if there are 20 Democratic Senators or 47.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:14 PM on January 31, 2017 [23 favorites]


I didn't click through but I saw these on reddit submitted at the same time.

Donald Trump Will Continue Targeting Suspected American Terrorists Overseas

No Americans will be targeted in terror strikes
posted by futz at 7:15 PM on January 31, 2017


These arguments about tactics and strategy and effectiveness and ineffectiveness are more or less moot. This is not about what we can realistically accomplish in practical terms. There is an authoritarian President who is letting white nationalists steer his policies. The Republican Congress has shown no sign of being willing to do anything to stand in his way and indeed are gleefully ready to use this opportunity to dismantle everything decent people value in really every sector of society (human rights, economy, labor, education, healthcare, environment, civil liberties, etc. etc. etc.).

They're about to get the Supreme Court in their pocket. The public either digs it or doesn't give a shit. The people in power are vicious and incompetent and powerful enough that they can make the actual planet unlivable if they feel like it or blunder into it.

There is nothing to do here but resist, delay, slow them down, and hope they destroy themselves before they get too far.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:16 PM on January 31, 2017 [19 favorites]


This Country has dramatically changed in the last 11 days. Democrats really don't have the luxury of planning ahead for the future right now or holding on to the filibuster. Republicans could just end it tomorrow anyway. Possibly by EO tonight.
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:18 PM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


Dems should also consider that Trump may not last full term and they would have a powerful argument that Pence shouldn't be allowed to nominate. Might as well fire the one bullet they have now, especially while people are in the streets.
posted by Rumple at 7:21 PM on January 31, 2017 [29 favorites]


This just in:

Lenny Bruce reports feeling some anxiety.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 7:22 PM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]




Is it possible that Gorsuch could turn out to be more liberal

Well, there's possibly "not a lackey to those already in positions of power" (where Scalia was generally better than Roberts and Alito) which, sad to say, is going to matter as much as LGBT and abortion rights. But don't hold your breath, especially if you're hoping to bring a suit against cops for stepping on your neck.
posted by holgate at 7:23 PM on January 31, 2017


I think that the Democrats may be trying to save the filibuster for the fight over RBG's seat, because when they lose that (and I think that's a when, not an if), we're truly screwed, in ways people have barely begun to contemplate.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:26 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Divided we fall.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:28 PM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


The bigger issue isn't isn't RBG's seat right now, it's Kennedy's.
posted by zachlipton at 7:31 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


What if the Democrats offered their full support for Gorsuch in exchange for McConnell resigning from the Senate entirely?
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:31 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


I don't know how anyone who lived through the McConnell years, particularly the obstruction of Garland, can believe there's any merit to "saving" the filibuster for later. The other side is not going to care. Filibustering does not take out a nominee like it's some kind of special one-time-use weapon in a video game or something. The GOP can kill the filibuster at any time, but chose not to for tactical reasons. If Democrats use it now and they kill it, Gorsuch gets confirmed. If Democrats don't use it now, another vacancy is created, and the Democrats use it then, some other wingnut gets confirmed. Democrats will not be rewarded for saving it to replace a liberal justice with another liberal. That's not how the other side operates.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:32 PM on January 31, 2017 [67 favorites]


Might as well fire the one bullet they have now, especially while people are in the streets.

Exactly. We've had literally millions of people in the streets. But these Democrats are constantly finding reasons not to listen to any of it, with the same "trust us" crap.

I was furious with the Democrats last decade for voting for the Iraq war. Obama's opposition was a huge part of my support for him in the 2008 primary.

I thought that would have taught Democrats that standing up would be the right and successful thing. It hasn't seemed to have taught them anything.
posted by zutalors! at 7:32 PM on January 31, 2017 [13 favorites]


Clearly if there was one lesson to take from the 2016 election it was that refusing to support the Democratic party because they are insufficiently.... something... works out for everyone.
posted by Justinian at 7:33 PM on January 31, 2017 [17 favorites]


Some more for your "We are not safe" file:

Colin Kahl: "Hearing Trump replaced PDB w/senior staff huddle (no intel rep) & only doing meeting couple days per week."

PDB = President's Daily Brief. In other words, the claim is Trump is never getting briefed by Intelligence officers directly. Whichever staff members are briefing him (Bannon?) can tell him whatever they want.

Slate: Iraqi General Leading Counterterror Operations Against ISIS Says He’s Been Banned From Visiting Family in U.S.
posted by bluecore at 7:33 PM on January 31, 2017 [18 favorites]


Clearly if there was one lesson to take from the 2016 election it was that refusing to support the Democratic party because they are insufficiently.... something... works out for everyone.

Are you aiming that sarcasm at the Democratic politicians who refuse to support their Democratic constituents, or somewhere pointless?
posted by Sys Rq at 7:38 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


So I realize there's a lot of things to be outraged about right now, but in a just world, Bannon's Islamophobic bigotry would be worthy of a couple million people marching in the streets on its own.
posted by zachlipton at 7:38 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


> efusing to support the Democratic party

Conflating primarying Democrats with not supporting Democrats is not going to be helpful for this conversation.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:38 PM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]


they are insufficiently.... something...

OPPOSITIONAL

WE HAVE A FUCKING WORD, IT IS "OPPOSITIONAL" OR "OPPOSITIONAL TO EVIL" IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR A FULL PHRASE


They have votes. We don't have votes. We want them to vote for us, the way we would vote, like they're our...representatives in government.
posted by zutalors! at 7:39 PM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


Colin Kahl: "Hearing Trump replaced PDB w/senior staff huddle (no intel rep) & only doing meeting couple days per week."

PDB = President's Daily Brief. In other words, the claim is Trump is never getting briefed by Intelligence officers directly. Whichever staff members are briefing him (Bannon?) can tell him whatever they want
.

Ha. Didn't Sycophant Spicer say today the trumpie was getting PDB's? And a reporter asked how often and he replied 'daily'? Of course the implication was that it was an Intel briefing.
posted by futz at 7:40 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


House to repeal Obama coal rule Wednesday

Call your reps, call your senators.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:41 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Conflating primarying Democrats with not supporting Democrats is not going to be helpful for this conversation.

"If they vote for Gorsuch, fuck them. Cut them off. Primary everyone. If that fails, stay home."

It's right up there. We're not arguing against primarying people. But there are folks here that will refuse to vote for Democrats at all. It's not a conflation.
posted by Justinian at 7:41 PM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'm honestly not all that interested in the discussion about primarying Democrats who are insufficient in their opposition right now. I'm much more interested in forcing them off their asses (by whatever methodology required), so that we still, y'know, have freedom and elections in two years, since the rate of acceleration towards chaos and the Divine Right of Trump makes that feel a little worrying.
posted by Archelaus at 7:42 PM on January 31, 2017 [13 favorites]


I held my nose and voted for Patrick fucking Murphy. I will eagerly vote and donate for a progressive to primary Bill Nelson. But if it ends up being Nelson, I'm voting for him. I'd rather have a shitty Democrat than be represented by two Rubios. Throwing in the towel and letting the entire Senate be utterly overrun is a defeatist tantrum.
posted by gatorae at 7:43 PM on January 31, 2017 [16 favorites]


I personally just admire the optimism of those of you who are confident we're going to get another chance to vote...
posted by mmoncur at 7:43 PM on January 31, 2017 [28 favorites]




> It's right up there. We're not arguing against primarying people. But there are folks here that will refuse to vote for Democrats at all. It's not a conflation.

I don't see any unresolvable tension between "you should always vote for the best option among those who can win" and "there comes a point at which the candidate owns some of the blame for people not showing up." I will reliably show up to vote for lesser evils, but a lot of people won't, and those people aren't going away any faster than those who voted for Trump.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:45 PM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


Justinian: Clearly if there was one lesson to take from the 2016 election it was that refusing to support the Democratic party because they are insufficiently.... something... works out for everyone.

I really goddamn hope you're just misunderstanding me, but I'm not saying "don't support the party" - I'm saying "replace people in the party who aren't serving as they should with people who will do what's needed." And, right now, what's needed is to resist as hard as fucking possible before everything left gets signed away.

The time of compromise should've been abandoned long ago, and certainly abandoned after the GOP blockaded Obama's nomination. Trying to compromise now is outright senseless in the face of an opposition that ranges from disrespectful of all government processes to active maliciousness.
posted by flatluigi at 7:45 PM on January 31, 2017 [14 favorites]


Bannon's a literal Nazi viper who's slithered his way into the President's inner circle, has a favored place at his ear, and there's good evidence that he's driving policy.

I say we slap his name onto a fair share of protest signs and march against him as well as Trump.
posted by thedarksideofprocyon at 7:45 PM on January 31, 2017 [10 favorites]


(are folks searching the thread before they post links? I am seeing some of the same links being posted 3 times)
posted by futz at 7:45 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


I really wish Democrats were more vocal now about if there is a plan and what we should expect.

I'm not really into the Republican promises or other bullshit; but a press release with this format: Donald Trump is destroying our democracy in these ways, these are out next moves, public keep fighting to good fight , we will review and update as needed.

I think it would stop or atleast allievate some of this infighting, also let Republicans know they can't chip away at one person or another, and be a morale booster that we all need.
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:49 PM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]


I don't think "filibuster the illegitimate President's illegitimate nominee" is an unreasonable bar for support. Everyone has their line, and I've supported a LOT of terrible Democrats, being from Kentucky. Hell, I gave money to Jack Conway's campaign for Senate AND governor, and called them multiple times asking them to let me work on his campaigns (btw, he turned me down twice, and look what they did with that). This is my point where it's not even fucking worth it. If they won't fight this, that's where they lost me. I'd rather burn with the people honest about throwing gas on the fire, than the ones promising me they'll turn on the water any day now.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:51 PM on January 31, 2017 [23 favorites]


It's right up there. We're not arguing against primarying people. But there are folks here that will refuse to vote for Democrats at all. It's not a conflation.

In my case, at least, I really deeply hope that they do just get up off their asses, and my personal Senators have been very good about that all along. If you're an elected Democrat in Michigan, you know which side your bread is buttered on, believe you me, and they'd as soon vote for Jeff Sessions as jump off the Big Mac bridge. My Representative is an enthusiastic Trumpist, so no point in wasting my breath.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:51 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


I just have to see a solid blue No

Seriously. Why is that so hard to understand.
posted by zutalors! at 7:59 PM on January 31, 2017 [17 favorites]


I expect something like... 43? no votes from Democrats. That would be my guess.
posted by Justinian at 8:00 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


"there comes a point at which the candidate owns some of the blame for people not showing up.

I'm really sick of this shit.

Blame is something that children talk about. Blame is for finger-pointing and legal proceedings. Blame is retrospective.

If we're supposed to move forward and not back, and not spend our time rehashing the 2016 election, then blame is irrelevant. The key word here is responsibility.

Whose responsibility is it to make sure people show up? Pretty much anyone who cares about the outcome of the election. Which, it turns out, includes a lot of people who would love to blame the candidate for failing.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 8:02 PM on January 31, 2017 [14 favorites]


If we primary the weak links, even if they beat the challenger and retain their seats they might find their backbones a little more easily.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:03 PM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


> The key word here is responsibility.

Yes. Voters have a responsibility to vote for the candidate that represents their interests, and politicians have a responsibility to advance the interests of those they want to vote for them. It's a two-way street.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:05 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Seriously I don't see why the filibuster issue is even a question.

"Trump has nominated an extreme judicial activist who doesn't represent the clear opinion and values of the majority of the country, as evidenced by the popular vote. "

People are in the streets. The quickest way to get them to turn on the Democratic party and Congressional Democrats is to do anything other than filibuster. If the DNC can't see that, then they really are all idiots.
posted by threeturtles at 8:05 PM on January 31, 2017 [31 favorites]


I really wish Democrats were more vocal now about if there is a plan and what we should expect.

I'm not really into the Republican promises or other bullshit; but a press release with this format: Donald trump is destroying our democracy in these ways, these are out next moves, public keep fighting to good fight , we will review and update as needed.

I think it would stop or already allievate some of this infighting, also let Republicans know they can't chip away at one person or another, and be a morale booster that we all need.


This is the thing that infuriates me about the DNC chair elections taking their sweet time. Leadership should have been sorted out before mid-January and if the DNC bylaws didn't allow that they should've changed them.

One thing about primarying some Dems that's a risky strategy but honestly might work is that "our party really was led by a bunch of fuckups and we're here to take it back" could actually play a hell of a lot better than current red state Dem messaging without requiring a compromise on values. Because there is no red state Dem messaging now after the party abandoned commitments to it, just people like Manchin pretending they're Republicans, and instead of making it happen the DNC is dawdling on selecting leadership when they should have been neck deep in strategy and building out party infrastructure changes before the inauguration.

Myself I'm looking to talk to the organizers of my Indivisible group about making contacts with rural mayors and such in the area and offering volunteer services for local needs. Retail politics where complacent Republicans just coast. Fuck waiting on orders from the DNC on high, we need to lead from the ground.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:07 PM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


Yeah, in 14 years we'll be talking about the Democratic candidates who did/didn't roll over right now.

Just like the Iraq war.
posted by zutalors! at 8:08 PM on January 31, 2017 [21 favorites]


I'm kind of feeling that some people are taking "primary them out" to mean "don't vote for them no matter what" instead of "vote for the best alternative that arises," especially in a climate where a fucking ton of people are going to take this opportunity to run on a platform of actual opposition instead of just inaction.

To use an analogy: it's not "I don't like Hillary so I'm voting for Trump," it's "I'm going to try my fucking hardest to make Bernie win out over Hillary."
posted by flatluigi at 8:09 PM on January 31, 2017 [15 favorites]


If we primary the weak links, even if they retain their seats they might find their backbones a little more easily.

Exactly. This is how they enforce party discipline. Why do you think McCain and Collins and Graham play the Lucy football game? They're scared to actually cross over and upset their base. It's the same reason Rubio does his Rubio act, and why Toomey runs as a moderate but only actually votes on the teabagger line.

They fear their base. They know the consequences for betrayal. Dems don't have anything comparable, and it's why our Dems are not worth trusting not to vote for fascism. They've given us the blueprint, we should've learned the lesson two cycles ago, but it's time to play catchup as long as there's still elections, which admittedly may not be long. No defections, or there must be obvious consequences.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:09 PM on January 31, 2017 [31 favorites]


Democrats will insist on 60 votes, says Schumer.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:14 PM on January 31, 2017 [30 favorites]


Schumer doesn't control his own party. We'll see.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:15 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


He does know how to count, though.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:16 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Careful, guys, remember when the Tea Party went after sitting Republicans from the right and they never won anything ever again? That's... what happened, right?
posted by atoxyl at 8:16 PM on January 31, 2017 [43 favorites]


But remember when Dems went after Joe Lieberman from the left and, yeah...
posted by holgate at 8:20 PM on January 31, 2017


And the point of principle here is not the nominee, but that the nomination was stolen by McConnell being a fucker. That's why there's no political capital in waiting till the next nomination: he can't be granted a victory on this without a fucking dirty, bloody fight.
posted by holgate at 8:22 PM on January 31, 2017 [32 favorites]


Does anyone have a good way of cherry-picking these threads for the good stuff? Just search for everything by your favorite posters? Some way of filtering heavily favorited comments? I can no longer keep up.
posted by Coventry at 8:26 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Obama urged us to hold him accountable back in the day. Let's continue doing that through calling our reps and senators everyday but also by finding great people to run against every republican politician currently in office at every level.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:27 PM on January 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


The nominees are also the point of principle, for me. If little handcuffed kids at airports and LGBTQ rights and decent schools and reproductive choice aren't things worth going to the mattresses for, what the fuck is?
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:28 PM on January 31, 2017 [10 favorites]


Coventry: If you're a Chrome user, this.
posted by lazaruslong at 8:30 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


I took the last two days off work just trying to keep up with Twitter, here and Facebook.

(Ok, I had the days scheduled off before the shitshow (also known as the inauguration) officially started but seriously, it has been days of being afraid to look away because the news equivalent to the Doctor Who Weeping Angels might be there when I turned back if I were to step away.)
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 8:31 PM on January 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


Last week in CA-45, we protested at our congresswoman's office for the first time. It was exciting having 75 people there, but it was nothing compared to today- maybe 500 people were there, including the head of the local democratic party, reporters, a documentary filmmaker, and constituents from the university, the Iranian community, the Muslim community, and more.

The twist was that the office staff knew we were coming, and you know what they did? Nothing. They didn't even show up to work, the office was closed all day today. So we left notes, petitions, signs, etc. all over the door to her office.

Over the last two weeks, I've been meeting lots of great people and we've been collaborating and you can really see the groundwork being laid for greater organization to come. All sorts of people with varying amounts of experience and connections are just deciding to do whatever they know how to do to help out. You see strangers introducing themselves to each other, switching emails and twitters and talking about what they're going to do next.

If you haven't been to a demonstration yet, find one and go. Obama told us a thousand times, "Organize." He was right. Nobody told me to hand out 500 flyers in front of the ethnic market, but I knew it would help, so I did. If all you are capable of is handing out 25 flyers? Then do that. Every little bit of effort counts.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 8:32 PM on January 31, 2017 [47 favorites]


Yeah, it's tough, CoffeeHikeNapWine. I'm in constant low grade dread of a terror attack and the resulting overreaction, clumsy power grab, clampdown, et cetera.
posted by notyou at 8:36 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Over the last two weeks, I've been meeting lots of great people and we've been collaborating and you can really see the groundwork being laid for greater organization to come. All sorts of people with varying amounts of experience and connections are just deciding to do whatever they know how to do to help out. You see strangers introducing themselves to each other, switching emails and twitters and talking about what they're going to do next.

Yeah, it's really something seeing the organizing on the ground. I'm new to it myself but what I'm seeing here seems unprecedented for the area, it feels like all the introverts got loud and the youth vote is finally starting to wake up which is HUGE. And as scared as I am of everything happening right now, local activism is one of the few things that helps keep me from just shutting down, it feels like - and is, really - a real community in a place I've never connected with before. And it's just getting started.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:46 PM on January 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


If you're out there, if you're somewhere listening, I beg you, Jon Stewart...

Run for President.

Trump has fired the starting gun by proclaiming his candidacy. That means that we could fund Jon Stewart's run against him for four years.

It would drive Trump absolutely mad.

And if Jon Stewart was elected, then we'd have a rational human being with a deep grasp of politics and world-class communication skills for President. Think of the team he could put together. I think he'd be ideal.

Please, Jon, in our hour of need, come back to us.
posted by MrVisible at 8:48 PM on January 31, 2017 [34 favorites]


Does anyone have a good way of cherry-picking these threads for the good stuff? Just search for everything by your favorite posters? Some way of filtering heavily favorited comments? I can no longer keep up.

hey hey hey, follow me and we can get lost together. j/k, this firehouse of news and comments is too much to take in and I have a chronic health condition so I am not working and have plenty of time to devote to this and I can't keep up.

I fill in my folks who have cnn and msnbc all day long. They think they are informed until I fill them in. Imagine ALL the progressives who rely on Public Radio in their cars during their commute. They aren't being told anything. And those same people rely on the NYT which is an embarrassment IMO. The real news is not getting reliably disseminated to the broader public and it is a complete failure/abandonment from our 'trusted' news sources. People are not hearing the full story, they are getting pleasant, non-confrontational soundbites and it is criminal.

Why yes, I am furious.
posted by futz at 8:50 PM on January 31, 2017 [32 favorites]


Here's what I think.

I think somebody needs to come out and articulate a god damn vision that we can all believe in. Nobody's doing it. Sure, it's hard, but Obama did it. Know why he could? He had positive assertions. I'm not even thinking party machinery right now, I'm not even thinking which candidates filibuster and which don't.

Where's our guy? Where's our vision? We're in the right, we're in majority, we're the richest most powerful country on earth, and we can't f**king come out and say in no uncertain terms that these are the things we want? Our opponents are dirty, so we gotta get dirty. If eggs gotta break, we break their eggs!

Yeah, I know that sounds ragey and rude. I know that sounds exactly like what Trump campaigned on. I know that sounds dirty and ugly. But that's what sells in this country, and that's what we all need to get behind...isn't it? So can't we just say that?

I can. Won me a bunch of Facebook arguments today. Slammed every Trumpista with articles and facts until they ran away. (yeah I've had a fighty fighty day)

Trumpite: [scare jpegs about immigrants]
Me: Nope. Bannon's doing it. Trump is watching Finding Dory while American families get torn apart at airports and US soldiers engage in suicide attacks on Yemeni-American 8-year old girls.
Me: Also, to pre-empt any more MAGA crap, here's what Trump supporters are doing while Trump spreads American carnage. [link to Kentucky military convoy with Trump flag]
Trumpite: Lol. Majority of people support Trump. They are scared to say it cause liberals attack and spew garbage. Bottom line is he won and is doing everything he said he would. Keep hating and protesting it will help him get a second term.
Trumpite: Its our governments and presidents job to protect this country. This was a step that was needed. But keep crying. See where it gets you in a year... No where.
Me: Right on script with the "liberal tears are delicious" comment. We ain't crying. We're trying to protect America.
Trumpite: Right... By blocking traffic preventing people from hospital appointments. By burning flags. By destroying property. Your doing a great job. By your theory, might as well let all terrorists in. Oh yeah and the wall is going up.
Me: Nope, protesters let the ambulances through. We burn confederate flags. And we ain't the ones burning mosques and bombing churches. The terrorists live here. And you're paying for the wall.
Trumpite: Id rather pay for a wall verse lose American jobs and pay fines for not having health insurance. FYI your also paying for the wall lol
Trumpite: Im leaving this thread. Have a good day.
Me: You too
Reply to myself: (because I like the last word, just wanted to say - no, I'm not paying a fine for not having health insurance because I have health insurance, I'm actually creating American jobs, and probably not paying for the wall because charitable deductions out the wazoo)

I won that argument.

Why the sweet f**k aren't the Senators doing the same? Would it be so difficult to come out with knives bared? We have every single reason to be winning the rhetorical battle, on almost every point, and we're not. Why????

Is this the point I should take a break? Maybe I should take a break.
posted by saysthis at 8:54 PM on January 31, 2017 [12 favorites]


People are not hearing the full story, they are getting pleasant, non-confrontational soundbites and it is criminal.

#takebackCNN
posted by saysthis at 8:55 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm definitely tired, but part of that is because I've spent the hours since the Gorsuch announcement trying to lump Senate Dems' statements into clear categories for a project I've gotten involved with. Say something definite, people. At a bare minimum, you were elected to have an opinion.

And don't even get me started on the senators who knew this was coming for days, but couldn't be arsed to tell their press offices to release a comment.
posted by Leslie Knope at 8:57 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


And if Jon Stewart was elected, then we'd have a rational human being with a deep grasp of politics and world-class communication skills for President.

You must've missed the 15 years of Stewart's painfully forced bothsidesism.

If Stewart comes back, he'll be Chuck Todd, not our progressive savior.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:06 PM on January 31, 2017 [22 favorites]


I don't know where this image of Jon Stewart being the ideal fighting candidate comes from because it certainly doesn't come from watching his show
posted by flatluigi at 9:09 PM on January 31, 2017 [26 favorites]


(on second thought I look like a ranting moron, which I am, but hey, accountability ain't mean nothing no more, so at least I vented)

Jon Stewart might be susceptible to pressure from the base at this point? Probably not though. But what about as DNC spokesman or something?
posted by saysthis at 9:12 PM on January 31, 2017


Jon Stewart has been a hermit since he left the Daily Show, as far as I know. I don't know why you think he'd be susceptible to pressure. This is not the first time I've heard this (wanting him to run) and it bugs me a whole lot.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 9:14 PM on January 31, 2017



I don't know where this image of Jon Stewart being the ideal fighting candidate comes from because it certainly doesn't come from watching his show


it comes from the idea that we live in a reality tv show and we need a friendly demagogue who understands causality and history to beat the fascist demagogue tanking the USA-ship and by extension the world

i vote some weird hybrid between The Rock and Elizabeth Warren, but stewart or some other personality WITH MOXIE AND PATIENCE will do just fine.

i'm like 90% serious. trump steamrollered his opposition with blather, bluster and interpersonal connection. we need the same. none of the D's or conventional pols look like they are up to it.
posted by lalochezia at 9:14 PM on January 31, 2017 [9 favorites]


People are not hearing the full story, they are getting pleasant, non-confrontational soundbites and it is criminal. #takebackCNN

Are you saying CNN is a source of this 'criminal' behaviour or the answer?
posted by rough ashlar at 9:15 PM on January 31, 2017


We need a Bruce Lee like we've never needed before.
Bruce Lee was chosen as a symbol of the fight against ethnic divisions. Lee, who was an American of Chinese descent and famous martial arts actor, represented to the residents of Mostar a bridging of cultures.
posted by porpoise at 9:18 PM on January 31, 2017


Jon Stewart has been a hermit since he left the Daily Show, as far as I know.

He did delay John Cena tying Ric Flair's record for world championships by a couple of years, which was pretty good.
posted by Etrigan at 9:19 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Man, trying to get Democrats to actually oppose fascism is like trying to walk a crack addicted puppy in an Antifreeze factory
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:20 PM on January 31, 2017 [23 favorites]


So, the paperwork Trump signed to run for President in 2020 -- those would be the FEC papers, right?

What's stopping all of us from filing to run for president? It sounds like there's at least some marginal benefit, and (since the rule has already been broken) there's no real downside.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 9:21 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


vote some weird hybrid between The Rock and Elizabeth Warren, but stewart or some other personality WITH MOXIE AND PATIENCE will do just fine.

NBA coaches are making a strong case. If we have to run celebrities now, let's pitch to Popovich and Steve Kerr.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:21 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Jon Stewart has been a hermit since he left the Daily Show, as far as I know.

He seems to be doing some celebrity things: producing, cultivating new talent, helping his wife open an animal sanctuary.
posted by Miko at 9:21 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Presidentialism does not allow a formal space for "leader of the opposition". It just doesn't. It's like having a "claimant to the throne". That's one of the many reasons why strong presidential systems are shit.

The opposition is people. Lots and lots and lots of people.
posted by holgate at 9:27 PM on January 31, 2017 [6 favorites]


Presidentialism does not allow a formal space for "leader of the opposition". It just doesn't. It's like having a "claimant to the throne". That's one of the many reasons why strong presidential systems are shit.

The lack of the equivalent of Prime Minister's Questions is quite impressive, though. The flaw in not having a way to force the head of the executive to face structured questions is going to become clearer and clearer as Trump goes on avoiding press conferences.
posted by jaduncan at 9:32 PM on January 31, 2017 [10 favorites]




People are not hearing the full story, they are getting pleasant, non-confrontational soundbites and it is criminal. #takebackCNN

Are you saying CNN is a source of this 'criminal' behaviour or the answer?
posted by rough ashlar at 1:15 PM on February 1 [+] [!]


I'm saying we need more media reach and a more blunt, on-the-nose message. They've got a propaganda network and 15 years of message-building in Fox, we need that too. Trump just denied CNN access, so why don't we bombard CNN and tell them what we want to see and why? Assuming we still have a free press and elections, we gotta go on the offensive with messaging. There's nothing left to lose, and it would piss off the Trumpites to no end that we stole the platform they spat out in their fit of pique.
posted by saysthis at 9:47 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Is it really appropriate for Trump to nominate a Supreme Court Justice with less than a year remaining in his presidency?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:51 PM on January 31, 2017 [124 favorites]


Ian MacKaye has more business experience but I think Jello Biafra would be better for these times
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:52 PM on January 31, 2017 [10 favorites]


The lack of the equivalent of Prime Minister's Questions is quite impressive, though.

That's true in all strong (and semi-strong) presidential systems. As I said elsethread, it's more monarchical in practice than a constitutional monarchy or a weak-presidential system. When the head of government is the head of state, it's very difficult to have a single figure of opposition who won't be perceived as a challenge to the state itself. The US setup is still "how do we do the British monarchy of the late-1700s in a less shitty way?" which is not asking much by 2017 standards. Except that the monarchical models of that period (outside of Britain) actually got challenged by actual angry mobs.
posted by holgate at 9:56 PM on January 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Yeah. There's nothing stopping a mandatory question session, though. I suspect we're violently agreeing that insufficient statutory requirements exist; it's just another example of where previous presidents have obeyed a norm rather than a rule to engage meaningfully with media questions.
posted by jaduncan at 10:07 PM on January 31, 2017


Peter Thiel’s secret citizenship sparks backlash in New Zealand: "Trump-backing tech investor handed passport despite not meeting usual requirements"

Remember when Republicans were all big on "you have to come legally?"
posted by zachlipton at 10:10 PM on January 31, 2017 [39 favorites]


Do you have a mirror of that article? It's paywalled for me.
posted by flatluigi at 10:13 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Do you have a mirror of that article? It's paywalled for me.
1. Google it: https://www.google.com/search?q=Financial+TimesPeter+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
2. Then click on a Top Stories link.
posted by christopherious at 10:15 PM on January 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


I think this mirror will work. If that fails, try clicking into it from this tweet or googling the headline and clicking the first result.
posted by zachlipton at 10:16 PM on January 31, 2017


Have a mirror.
posted by jaduncan at 10:16 PM on January 31, 2017


Here's a link from a New Zealand newspaper: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11790034
posted by spinifex23 at 10:17 PM on January 31, 2017


Metafilter has a reverse bystander effect.
posted by jaduncan at 10:19 PM on January 31, 2017 [25 favorites]


What do we want? A mirror! How do we want it? From everyone at once!
posted by zachlipton at 10:19 PM on January 31, 2017 [27 favorites]


Trump just denied CNN access

They put out info that makes Trump look bad, and in his head that make 'em "fake news".

But the thing is, CNN has its own self-inflicted wounds on "fake news". And its why the best you can hope for is more than 1 camera angle and more than one actual recording of the event.

While the framing here is crap https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjqhnSf0l-Q this has the CNN editing VS a more expanded clip showing CNN was not "being truthful". (Not putting the link because frankly Mark Dice shouldn't get more hits. Feel free to search Sylville Smith CNN. The retraction/apology later is rather weak.) And if ya dig around you can see other camera angles showing other MSM grade cameras....where where THESE media outlets with reporting about how CNN was not "being truthful"?

Part of Trump's popularity is the bypassing of the CNN's and understanding why may lead to how to effectively counter. Things like youtube+cameras in every cell phone mean the old media's control of the narrative isn't what it was. The counters to charges of "fake news" should address this VS doubling down that CNN is somehow gonna give it to ya straight.
posted by rough ashlar at 10:19 PM on January 31, 2017


This is just so he can focus on fewer screens during his ample TV hours w/ mashed banana.
posted by holgate at 10:31 PM on January 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


But remember when Dems went after Joe Lieberman from the left and, yeah...

Sure that didn't go so well but he wasn't exactly replaced by a Republican challenger either - he was just replaced by Joe Lieberman.
posted by atoxyl at 10:52 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


Is it really appropriate for Trump to nominate a Supreme Court Justice with less than a year remaining in his presidency?

Good jab, and could almost work as a legitimate argument with a few adjustments:

"Is it really appropriate for Trump to nominate a Supreme Court Justice while there are pending lawsuits against his finances and intelligence investigations into his campaign?"
posted by p3t3 at 10:52 PM on January 31, 2017 [21 favorites]


Regardless of your feelings for the station's content, Bannon and Trump know that if they can delegitimize CNN they can take out any pure news org. Does CNN have the highest viewership of the cable news channels?

EDIT: #2
posted by rhizome at 11:22 PM on January 31, 2017


"Is it really appropriate for Trump to nominate a Supreme Court Justice while there are pending lawsuits against his finances and intelligence investigations into his campaign?"

This is perfect. Not only is is true, it's good politics and turns their own rhetoric against them.


So: why are Democrats so bad at politics?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:22 PM on January 31, 2017 [20 favorites]


"Is it really appropriate for Trump to nominate a Supreme Court Justice, the highest source of judicial authority in the land, when multiple groups of armed CBP agents, who declare themselves to be directly beholden to Trump, are undermining that same judicial authority by refusing to carry out federal court orders?"
posted by J.K. Seazer at 11:29 PM on January 31, 2017 [23 favorites]


Ugh, the National Border Patrol Council (CBP union) is really something.

Their statement on the appointment of Ronald Vitiello as Border Patrol Chief shows a telling insecurity and inferiority complex that seems to explain why CBP is so eager to flex their muscle as Trump-directed executive order enforcers.

"We are unlike any other law enforcement agency in the world. We operate marine, land, and air units in every climate, and every environment. The previous administration's attempts to treat the Border Patrol like any other law enforcement agency resulted in leadership that was reactive and in constant crisis."
posted by orbit-3 at 11:51 PM on January 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


"We are unlike any other law enforcement agency in the world. We operate marine, land, and air units in every climate, and every environment."

Fascinating. Do you think they are under the impression a) that the Russian police don't do that and b) that they operate within a hitherto unknown USA rainforest?
posted by jaduncan at 12:02 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm actually currently writing Sen. Feinstein in part to call for an investigation into whether CBP behaved illegally at the airports, since there are reports that they didn't let lawful residents see lawyers and that they may have pressured detainees into signing away their rights.
posted by en forme de poire at 12:18 AM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


I listened to the Border Patrol union podcast linked in the other thread. It opens with a clip of...is it John Belushi? saying, "We're on a mission from God!" Around 8:44, one of the guys says (not a direct quote but close enough):

We have authority to arrest within 100 miles of the border. Any border. That beach [is a border]. Middle of Kansas. We have nationwide arrest authority. illegal aliens are in the middle of Kansas, and Nebraska. We're authorized to enter private property to conduct our business.

Which made me think, That's a real good pretext for harassing and persecuting people they don't like, such as critics of their President.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 12:29 AM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


Offtopic: I am informed via memail that the USA does indeed have rainforest. My hat tip to you, polyhedron.

Do CBP run patrols on EF ice cap?
posted by jaduncan at 12:47 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


From the Faith in Humanity department, At Texas Muslim Capitol Day, supporters form human shield around demonstrators
Two years ago, the Muslim participants who visited the Texas Capitol were met with two dozen protesters who repeatedly interrupted their event. But when participants walked up to the south steps of the Capitol on Tuesday morning, they were surrounded by a massive human circle made up of at least 1,000 supporters looking to ensure the event went off without a hitch.
posted by threeturtles at 12:48 AM on February 1, 2017 [36 favorites]


I'm realizing i was obsessed with the interwar era as a teen and now my 30s feels like a horrble punishment.

23: Oh god "Cabaret is go great! Let's all read Ernst and Isherwood and sleep on tabletops! We're all in a show!

32: Oh god there are Nazis everywhere.
posted by The Whelk at 1:05 AM on February 1, 2017 [77 favorites]


“This is essentially the opposition in waiting,” Gingrich said. “He may have to clean out the Justice Department because there are so many left-wingers there. State is even worse.”

Ah, the Recep Erdogan manouevre.
posted by Mister Bijou at 1:20 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


“This is essentially the opposition in waiting,” Gingrich said. “He may have to clean out the Justice Department because there are so many left-wingers there. State is even worse.”

Gotta love a political test for government work!
posted by kafziel at 1:57 AM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


They really want to go back to the spoils system, forgetting that the spoils system got a President killed.

But I'm being facetious. That statement completely disregards the important role an inadequate mental health system played in Garfield's assassination.
posted by ckape at 2:13 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


and the big baby just registered a new company with his son.
posted by xcasex at 2:19 AM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


This twitter thread about the emotional terrain of Trump supporters and what motivates them was very thought-provoking.
posted by forza at 2:53 AM on February 1, 2017 [27 favorites]


and the big baby just registered a new company with his son.

Donald Trump Jr.

Poor reading skills from Scott Dworkin.
posted by MattWPBS at 3:01 AM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Gotta love a political test for government work!

Trump Tower as Tammany Hall? I do have a suspicion that Donald would greatly prefer to be known as Boss Trump.
posted by jaduncan at 3:51 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Well yeah about that twitter thread, if you listen to one of the recent This American Life podcasts it goes into the motivations of various Annoying Orange supporters like border police and trolls.

Re the trolls, that seems to be what it's all about for them, stirring up emotional reactions. They do not care about the consequences and see Annoying Orange as their chief troll in a way.

Meanwhile Annoying Orange basically wants attention - ultimately I agree that he just wants to be loved - but any attention will do. Since he acts in ways that tend to elicit the worst reactions in people, his concrete goal will probably end up as: kill everybody in the world and keep all the money for himself. If you put it to him that way I think even he'd be genuinely horrified, but in practice he certainly wouldn't be the first dictator to want to kill everybody in the world.
posted by tel3path at 3:51 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Careful, guys, remember when the Tea Party went after sitting Republicans from the right and they never won anything ever again? That's... what happened, right?

The Tea Party won stuff because of the second part of the process, they showed up at the general come hell or high water no matter who eventually won the primary.

The left has a continual fight against a group taking its ball and going home and it sends me into a spiral of depression just thinking about it.
posted by Talez at 4:09 AM on February 1, 2017 [34 favorites]


The Tea Party won stuff because of the second part of the process, they showed up at the general come hell or high water no matter who eventually won the primary.

Exactly; when the Tea Party managed to get their guy through the primaries they showed up to vote for 'em. When they didn't manage to get their guy through the primaries they showed up pretty much just as strongly for the more establishment candidate. That's how you win both Houses of Congress and 2/3 of all state governments.
posted by Justinian at 4:11 AM on February 1, 2017 [29 favorites]


Ah, the Recep Erdogan manouevre.

Seems like there is a lot of talk from Trump about Syrian (and Yemeni) safe zones, so there is likely some directly Erdogan-related hijinks coming soon
posted by rosswald at 4:12 AM on February 1, 2017


@7im:
"if Clinton becomes president, I am going to do everything to make sure 4 years from now, we still got an opening on SCOTUS.” - @SenatorBurr
posted by chris24 at 4:12 AM on February 1, 2017 [22 favorites]


"We are unlike any other law enforcement agency in the world. We operate marine, land, and air units in every climate, and every environment."

Uh oh, they used the word "climate" in a public-facing document.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:18 AM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


@7im:
“I promise you that we will be united against any Supreme Court nominee that Clinton, if she were president, would put up.” - @SenJohnMcCain

@7im:
"There is certainly long historical precedent for a Supreme Court with fewer justices." - @tedcruz
posted by chris24 at 4:20 AM on February 1, 2017 [29 favorites]


That's how you win both Houses of Congress and 2/3 of all state governments.

Don't forget voter suppression and gerrymandering!
posted by amarynth at 4:21 AM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


Can someone talk me down here, for a minute? We've just had our third week of simultaneous bomb threats on US JCCs. Even through two of the evacuated centers were in NY and a third within easy commuting distance, it didn't even show up on the front page of the NY Times. After the last round it was considered a big deal, with reports that the FBI and the Justice department were working together with law enforcement to figure out who's behind it. You would think this would make it a bigger story. But instead it's just - the new normal?

Is there anyone left at the FBI and DoJ to even do this sort of an investigation right now? With all the shade they're throwing at the intelligence community and wanting to outright replace it, if Trump (Bannon) signals that it's not a priority, does the investigation still even happen?

Is this a canary in a coal mine for other issues we should be paying more attention to?
posted by Mchelly at 4:23 AM on February 1, 2017 [57 favorites]


Just a thought: for those of you struggling with Trumpist family, maybe you should focus on one thing that they can comprehend. My own choice would be that the Republicans want to cut down on Medicare and Social Security. Don't imagine you'll convince them first time round - it won't work the first many months, but keep going and the cracks will appear. Keep handing them documentation - best in the form of the Republicans' own words, rather than "Liberal MSM"-analysis.
If they say "Trump promised", already this week you have the first documentation that he won't keep those promises: he was rolled over by big pharma. Medicine will not get cheaper because he is not a great deal-maker.
If they try to move attention to other peoples' benefits, keep focus, don't go into a new discussion about equal rights (I know), say now we are only talking about your benefits, that the Republicans want to take away. Never loose that focus. Just one thing, all the time, every time you talk.
It will work, I know both from watching people doing good stuff, and from personal experience. And when you succeed, you will be doing good for your nation. Either by making people vote differently or by making them stay home. The first is obviously better.
Also remember, all power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. There are a lot of arguments you don't need to take, because the Trump and Republicans will manage to discredit themselves. With a president and majorities in both houses and most states, they will overreach. Breathe. Stick to your one chosen subject with your Trumpist friends and family.

And at the same time, organize, and be ready. The Democrats have truly failed by not offering an oppositional organization at all levels. It is depressing and unacceptable. But it's not like some other party can rise from the ashes and get rid of Trump within the next two years. There is only one way, and that is by transforming and weaponizing the Democratic party. I know this reads like I'm overbearing, but in real life, this is a desperate plea from outside the US - don't leave us alone with Trump. He'll get us all killed.
posted by mumimor at 4:24 AM on February 1, 2017 [23 favorites]


And if you want an object lesson in the disintegration and emasculation of the Left, look at the UK. Faced with a situation being pushed to the right through populism, the Labour party has fallen apart - the populist left have got their leader in place, , but he's incapable of leading the bits of the party who want a more centrist approach (and he is staggeringly tone-deaf). The party is incertain whether to adopt the cloths of the anti-immigration lobby or not, which further incenses the old school: the core organisers are leaving in droves and the poll ratings are in the dunny.

You may well have another analysis of this, and fine if you do -I'm not a political strategist. But I can say with absolute certainty, the progressive opposition in the UK has been in a mess for years and is getting worse, even while the climate is good for opposition due to the Right's many weaknesses and contradictions. Do not ignore whatever lessons there are to be learned here.
posted by Devonian at 4:35 AM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


Emasculation? Sorry, what?
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:38 AM on February 1, 2017 [15 favorites]


I meant to say: can we not use penises and maleness as a metaphor for power?
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:40 AM on February 1, 2017 [50 favorites]


The last time we had a "progressive" government they were right wingers obsessing about WMDs under the bed.

I'm not saying I like Theresa May, I think she's weak and unprincipled. (The flip side of this is that she is at least tractable.) But some of the things she says read as more progressive than I've heard from any PM in a long time. (Yeah, I know actions speak louder. I'm just taking note).

This is not to give her credit until she does something useful, it's just to note how incredibly fucked things are in the UK. The nation is now like a company with a bunch of somewhat well-intentioned but crap managers. No pride, no ideals any more. The Human Rights Act is a British *export* to the EU and they want to scrap it, and nobody in the population is noticing because nobody expects the leadership to stand on principle about anything or even have principles.
posted by tel3path at 4:42 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


And if you want an object lesson in the disintegration and emasculation of the Left, look at the UK.

Hell, look at France. The presidential election front runners are the right and the super right. The left on the other hand is running three candidates and is sure to lose the first round to vote splitting. The left in France might come to their senses and coalesce around Macron but Mélenchon is sitting there flipping the bird to the left with his 10% and the Socialists decided to run Hamon, the anti-Hollande so now they're polling 20% too just for shits and giggles.

The scariest part is Le Pen polling first and Wikileaks starting to hammer Fillion. I don't think they understand the French electoral process because it might backfire and knock the right out after the first round. The second round is only two weeks after the first and Macron vs Le Pen is not a fight Le Pen can win.
posted by Talez at 4:45 AM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Macron vs Le Pen is not a fight Le Pen can win

"Trump will never be nominated/elected."
posted by MattWPBS at 4:50 AM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


"Trump will never be nominated/elected."

France has passed this test once before. They elected Chirac over the elder Le Pen in an absolute fucking landslide (65 points). Le Pen pulled NOTHING outside his base.

"Votez escroc, pas facho!"
posted by Talez at 4:55 AM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


Is this a canary in a coal mine for other issues we should be paying more attention to?

Counterpoint: "troll culture" and SWATting.

Being on the internet means you are 150 ms from every asshole on the planet. Unsecured VOIP and throw away phones means anyone ANYWHERE can make a phone call and say whatever they want to the other person on the other end of the call. Given the number of attacks on VOIP from parts of the middle east I used to see on an Asterisk 1.6/1.8 box people there have a list of machines to attack.

Each bomb call translates into thousands of Dollars spent and hours of time diverted to prevent loss of life.

The US of A has a history of affecting other nations politics with ideas like GLADIO. And technology allows a perceived low-risk asymmetric attack vector back from people outside the normal reach of the target.
posted by rough ashlar at 4:59 AM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


The polarising effect of Trump on the EU electorates is the big unknown factor this time round. Will it embolden the fascists, or scare the centrists into putting up a decent fight for once? Probably both, but Trump is playing extremely badly over here and we have a lot more reasons to be afraid of Russia, so I think the advantage is to the centrists. But you can't discount the troll army and media manipulation - there's a reason Sputnik has set up offices across the board.
posted by Devonian at 5:03 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Spicer must be thrill that Trump is stepping on his own SCOTUS nomination by re-litigating the word ban yet again on his Twitter. Today, he says we can "call it what you want." So I believe, given that Jewish people are exempt, that I will call it a Muslim ban.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:04 AM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


Shit, I have to boycott Voice of America now too?

Voice of America is a state sponsored media outlet. It's funded by the US gov't... So under Trump, definitely, don't trust it.
posted by saulgoodman at 5:06 AM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


I've been seeing things on Facebook about a general strike for February 17. I'm worried it will not be well organized and doesn't have a clear goal, but would want to support and join if it is. Anyone here have any more information about it?
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 5:10 AM on February 1, 2017


Too-Ticky: I meant to say: can we not use penises and maleness as a metaphor for power?
The definition for "emasculate" in the dictionary is "make (a person, idea, or piece of legislation) weaker or less effective". I mean, I understand the hatred of the patriarchal history of English-speaking places, but "emasculate" was divorced from it's literal meaning a long time ago.

We're all friends here, right? Can we not attack each other over things like this when there's some really scary things going on?
posted by ragtag at 5:12 AM on February 1, 2017 [17 favorites]


"Where's Rudy?" At yesterday's meeting on "teh Cyber", Trump was unable to find Giuliani, even though he was sitting directly across from him at the table.

The man is ill - and this needs to be reiterated constantly as one of the biggest issues with his unfitness for the office.
posted by Doktor Zed at 5:13 AM on February 1, 2017 [33 favorites]


ragtag: "emasculate" was divorced from it's literal meaning a long time ago.

As a non-native speaker of English, I was not aware of that. And I did not attack anyone; I made a request. Please don't read more into it than that.
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:15 AM on February 1, 2017 [10 favorites]


Spicer must be thrill that Trump is stepping on his own SCOTUS nomination by re-litigating the word ban yet again on his Twitter.

Ha ha ha, it's like Trump is purposely winding him up with a new little Doublespeak Pop Quiz every day. Jake Tapper must be laughing himself sick. Much as I loathe laying eyes on him, seeing Spicer get more apoplectic and higher on his tiny horse day by day is one of the few things that gives me joy at the moment, and you know the press is going to poke him as hard as possible over this.

"Mr. Spicer, just to clarify, the President said today that he's fine with us calling the Muslim ban a Muslim ban. Do you have a comment on the Muslim ban?"
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:19 AM on February 1, 2017 [20 favorites]


I've been seeing things on Facebook about a general strike for February 17. I'm worried it will not be well organized and doesn't have a clear goal, but would want to support and join if it is. Anyone here have any more information about it?

I'm worried about this too, and wondering if the "demands" of the strike aren't too much in the weeds and if instead we should focus on the continuance of strong checks and balances.
posted by bunderful at 5:26 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Someone should buy stock in those Orbitz gum thingies; Spicer's going to get them by the truckload.

Or whatever toilet paper he uses.
posted by lineofsight at 5:27 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


MSNBC just did a glorious 30-second "ban, not a ban, ban, kind of a ban, who said ban? you say 'ban,' I say 'baaaahhhhhn'" montage of Trump and Spicer. Trump tweeted that with just enough lead time to make the morning news shows.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:29 AM on February 1, 2017 [15 favorites]


Discipline, long term commitment, and support for and loyalty to allies--even a willingness to form partnerships for practical reasons instead of pure idealism, but still conduct those partnerships respectfully and honorably--those are areas where the left/progressive/activist side tend to come up short, for natural, structural reasons, but it still hurts all the good causes, IMO.
posted by saulgoodman at 5:31 AM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


No, Too-Ticky is absolutely right. We're all friends so can't we accept some constructive criticism instead of doubling down on problematic behaviors?
posted by polyhedron at 5:32 AM on February 1, 2017 [29 favorites]


"emasculate" was divorced from it's literal meaning a long time ago.

Strongly disagree. The word is gross, please avoid using it.
posted by melissasaurus at 5:33 AM on February 1, 2017 [68 favorites]


Criticism is fine and even necessary, but some times people go beyond criticism into contempt and dismissal and healthy human relationships don't survive that.
posted by saulgoodman at 5:34 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


So: why are Democrats so bad at politics?

So anecdote time. To loop backto the Nazi Germany line, there's a bit in _They Thought They Were Free_ that puzzled me for a little while after I read it, until I realized the psychological implications.

Basically, the anecdote is a story from a man who was a judge in Germany in the early 1930s. At some point, a Jewish man was brought to trial for something -- I can't remember the details. Due to the way the law worked at the time, convicting the man would have sent him to prison and (ironically) at least temporarily kept him safe from Nazi hands. Finding the man not guilty would have let him go free -- at which point he would have been rounded up by the Gestapo, who were right outside the door. The man was (the judge knew somehow) innocent. So what was he supposed to do?

From my perspective, the answer is obvious -- of course you convict him. Of course you save him from the Nazis. But that's why I'm not a judge. For the judge to agree with me completely, he had to realize that his entire profession had become a farce -- that the law he was trying to enforce was now meaningless.

And that's what the Democrats are facing. To play the level of hardball played by the Republicans, they need to accept that the entire political system is now a lie, that the rules they want to work from have been erased -- that the only thing that remains is for them to figure out the best way to min-max the American government to get what they want.

That's the ethical dilemma here. I know what I would do in those circumstances. But I can understand their hesitation to do so. Asking them to play the Republicans' game is like asking me to fake data. I couldn't do it.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 5:34 AM on February 1, 2017 [128 favorites]


Could you fake data to defeat fascism though?
posted by fullerine at 5:39 AM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


Time for this again I think: Deep breath everyone, let it out slowly.

I know emotions are running high. That's ok. Just try to keep in mind the intent behind a person's words here.. not the word choices. Empathy.

Take a moment to think of just / flexibility, love, and trust.
posted by INFJ at 5:40 AM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


"I think somebody needs to come out and articulate a god damn vision that we can all believe in. "

Yes a million times. I am kind of biased towards pessimism because I've been working with refugees who lost everything overnight for years and I'm finding it really hard to feel hopeful right now. My husband also has a worldview shaped by having escaped genocide when he was in his teens, so in his experience persecution and human rights violations can always happen. We're feeling kind of desolate and scared. I miss Obama with all my heart right now.
posted by Tarumba at 5:40 AM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


As a non-native speaker of English, I was not aware of that.

It isn't true; don't believe it. Nobody calls women either emasculated or effeminate for a reason. It's especially egregious to complain about emasculation at the same time as you're calling some other person "tone-deaf." In a thread where frustrated people are asking other leftists, quote "Where's our guy?" it matters. A couple threads ago someone was genuinely arguing that we shouldn't nominate another woman as a presidential candidate next time because the country is too important to risk it. It matters.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:45 AM on February 1, 2017 [53 favorites]


This discussion over 'emasculated' puts me in mind of this Donna Brazile/Timothy Bergreen piece in which they decry the Democratic party as 'effete' and demand a 'muscular' security policy. Those terms bothered me in 2003 and they still seem troublesome.
posted by Radiophonic Oddity at 5:49 AM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Reuters - President Donald Trump's travel ban imposed on citizens of seven mainly Muslim countries was a sovereign decision for the United States and not directed at any religion, United Arab Emirates Foreign Minister Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed said on Wednesday.

Speaking at a joint news conference with his Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov in Abu Dhabi, Sheikh Abdullah also said the idea of safe zones in Syria would be welcome if they were to be temporary and for humanitarian purposes under international auspices.

But he said Abu Dhabi wanted to hear more details from Washington before subscribing to the idea
.
posted by rosswald at 5:51 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Sure, but not every subject needs to become a discussion of linguistic criticism. It throws off the momentum and derails toward abstraction and ideology. These are important discussions to have as long as they don't suck up all the oxygen and dominate every topic.
posted by saulgoodman at 5:51 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]




No one is interested in making this into a discussion of linguistic criticism. I just want to feel like women and others who are not cis men are equal partners in the conversation. That's all.
If we can make that happen, we can stop talking about it. It should not be very hard.

(Yes. the 'where's our guy' stung me, too.)
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:56 AM on February 1, 2017 [30 favorites]


USA Today: Time for outrageous obstruction against Gorsuch: Jason Sattler: Taking the high road, expecting that the flames shooting off Republicans’ burning bridges would finally catch up with them, is how we ended up in this mess that cost America its best hope of a progressive Supreme Court in more than 40 years. Face it: all forms of the filibuster are dead as soon as either party needs them to be.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:56 AM on February 1, 2017 [15 favorites]


Sure, but not every subject needs to become a discussion of linguistic criticism. It throws off the momentum and derails toward abstraction and ideology. These are important discussions to have as long as they don't suck up all the oxygen and dominate every topic.

One way to avoid a linguistic derail is when people say "please don't say 'emasculate' as an insult", then we all stop saying it. Metafilter doesn't have that many interactions like this; it's not like people are like "momentum privileges the notion of 'forward' as better than 'backward', please don't use it", etc.

"Emasculate" is pretty clearly gendered and kind of homophobic in its associations to me, even though I know that's not how mefites intend it to sound.
posted by Frowner at 5:57 AM on February 1, 2017 [55 favorites]




Sure, but not every subject needs to become a discussion of linguistic criticism.

Not every subject needs to include offensive slurs in it just to make the point, and now more than ever I am not willing to ignore them. "Emasculate" has a meaning and the more you broaden that meaning through metaphor the more offensive it becomes.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:00 AM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


Look, clearly I made the discussion of word choices into a detail. I'm really sorry (especially for the offense I've obviously caused), but can we call it here? If we want to continue the discussion, there are better places for it—these threads grow very quickly and a lot of people depend on them for news. It's worth keeping the signal-to-noise ratio as high as possible.
posted by ragtag at 6:00 AM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


> Steve Silberman: Wow, Trump's SCOTUS pick Gorsuch will be a disaster for disabled kids' education.

Wow indeed.

Between DeVos's ignorant dismissal of disabled kid's education rights, Gorsuch's flagrant disregard of the spirit of IDEA, and Trumps own appalling disrespect for people with disabilities, I'm starting to fear that a new eugenics movement isn't far off the horizon.
posted by Westringia F. at 6:01 AM on February 1, 2017 [10 favorites]


Given that it now looks like the world is going to be run by school bullies for the foreseeable future (or at least until they run it into the ground, which won't take that long, but considerably longer than one might like), and while wishing to express tremendous admiration for the courageous people who are standing up to them, I was wondering if there was a list of things - not demonstrations, or grand public gestures, but everyday resistance, acts of petit sabotage, things that go undetected at the time of committal but nonetheless gum up the works a bit - that those of us who are cowards might consider taking on in the years ahead. It will be a war, and everyone should do their bit in times of war, even us cowards. Some of us weren't really cut out to be soldiers.

I'm sure there were techniques the French resistance employed that we can take inspiration from.

(I also think we need to get used to referring to the current regimes in terms of the Nazis. It would annoy many of the right people a great deal, and, to be honest, the dangers of crying wolf are now altogether outweighed by what looks like an actual wolf, albeit a mangy, half-crazed one. It wouldn't annoy the actual Nazis, of course, but we'll have to find some other strategy for that.)
posted by Grangousier at 6:04 AM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


Grangousier: Help the people who are braver then you. Drive protestors to the protest. Make signs for them to use. Share stuff on the internet to your social media. Call out specific congresspeople for making dumb voting choices, even if they're not congresspeople of your state.

Really the worst thing you can do is stick your head in the ground and pretend everything will be fine or that, somehow, being quiet (even if you disagree) will still yield positive results.
posted by INFJ at 6:10 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Between DeVos's ignorant dismissal of disabled kid's education rights, Gorsuch's flagrant disregard of the spirit of IDEA, and Trumps own appalling disrespect for people with disabilities, I'm starting to fear that a new eugenics movement isn't far off the horizon.

Trump believes in the superiority of genes over other genes. He was taught he is genetically superior and that if you put superior genes together with other superior genes you get superior people
posted by Jalliah at 6:11 AM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


So the women's marches which are supposedly a media and "coastal elite" thing according to Republicans?

Not only does a big majority support them (60-29), but they're over two times more popular nationwide than the Tea Party was in 2010.

We are the majority. Never forget that.
posted by chris24 at 6:14 AM on February 1, 2017 [106 favorites]


Mod note: Couple deleted - folks, the point's been made, let's drop the "emasculate" thing.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 6:21 AM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


For those finding keeping up with each new atrocity in real time too much, but who still want to keep tabs on the news, Francis Hwang is doing a daily roundup on Medium. I don't see the bomb threats at Jewish community centers, so it's still missing some things, but this might be helpful: Feb 1
posted by deludingmyself at 6:23 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


@BraddJaffy
Per @playbookplus, at least 7 Democratic senators say they won't filibuster Gorsuch. Republicans only need a few more. [list]

--

Motherfuckers. One more. They need one more.

Durbin, Blumenthal, Heitkamp, Manchin, Coons, Tester, McCaskill

If they are your Senator, maybe a call is in order.
posted by chris24 at 6:24 AM on February 1, 2017 [30 favorites]


Durbin, Blumenthal, Heitkamp, Manchin, Coons, Tester, McCaskill

brb texting everyone I know in Chicago and siccing them on Durbin.
posted by dinty_moore at 6:31 AM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


If Manchin is your Senator, a lot of alcohol is in order
posted by delfin at 6:33 AM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


Are all of these Dem senators on the no-filibuster side up for reelection next year?
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:35 AM on February 1, 2017


Durbin, Blumenthal

that begs for the headline "Dem Dicks In Senate Won't Filibuster Trump Nominee"
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 6:35 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Durbin is up in 2020, not sure about the rest.
posted by dinty_moore at 6:36 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Up next after the SCOTUS failure, Democrats have to somehow oppose the 2018 budget, which is going to basically end domestic spending. Are we tired of winning yet?
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:41 AM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


Durbin, Blumenthal, Heitkamp, Manchin, Coons, Tester, McCaskill

If they are your Senator, maybe a call is in order.


If they are not your Senator, maybe a call to your own Senator urging them to persuade the holdouts is in order.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:45 AM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


Tester's up in '18 and he's following the classic "be the worst Democrat ever and hope it makes Republicans vote for you" strategy. He sucks and he's going to lose if he doesn't get good and properly primaried.

My life is a burning pile of shit at the moment (for non-civilizational-collapse-related reasons) but that's not going to stop me from making some calls today. God damn it Tester.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:45 AM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


Anybody have a source for Blumenthal saying he won't support a filibuster?
posted by birdheist at 6:46 AM on February 1, 2017


FUCK.

I just hope they remember - I opted for vaporization in the fireball.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:46 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Given that it now looks like the world is going to be run by school bullies for the foreseeable future (or at least until they run it into the ground, which won't take that long, but considerably longer than one might like), and while wishing to express tremendous admiration for the courageous people who are standing up to them, I was wondering if there was a list of things - not demonstrations, or grand public gestures, but everyday resistance, acts of petit sabotage, things that go undetected at the time of committal but nonetheless gum up the works a bit - that those of us who are cowards might consider taking on in the years ahead. It will be a war, and everyone should do their bit in times of war, even us cowards. Some of us weren't really cut out to be soldiers.
My Filipino family were not traditionally brave or fighters, but during the EDSA People Power protests they volunteered to help make food and provide supplies to the demonstrators who stayed on the highway.

On the Monday night Indivisible conference call, the ACLU and NILC lawyers were very vocal about their appreciation for the hundreds of volunteers who showed up at the airports to deliver pizza, recharge power banks, and bring coffee to the advocates on actively trying to get immigrants out.

There are many ways to provide support services for people on the front line, and they are essential and worth researching.
posted by bl1nk at 6:47 AM on February 1, 2017 [16 favorites]


It's an ebb and flow and some of the things that are happening (especially with the Dem senators) makes me feel hopeless. But then I remember that we're gonna get through this. Not unscathed, but we'll get through it. We're working less on winning right now than we are making sure as few people as possible get hurt by all this. And I remember that every angry bit of lashing out by Trumpers is an indication that they're not enjoying us being so loud and defiant. We'll be on the right side of history. I just wish that so many were not going to suffer in the meantime.
posted by azpenguin at 6:48 AM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


Offtopic: I am informed via memail that the USA does indeed have rainforest.

Probably not for long.
posted by juiceCake at 6:49 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm suddenly exhausted and tired because my partner now wants to listen to NPR constantly when I'm driving and gets defensive and upset if I talk back to the bullshit on the radio because "I have to know what the propaganda machine is saying in full so we can come up with counters!" Me, I'm worrying about this because I am tired and scared and know full well that we humans form opinions based in large part on what is modeled by authority figures and people around us, and I don't know how to fight propaganda. I don't even know how successful nations have fought off propaganda like this before.

So how the fuck do I stand against this? I have been systematically disenfranchised in the Senate and my senators are outright claiming that I am lying about where I make my home, even as I'm a fucking state employee. My house rep represents me but he's the only one who does in a city that should be entitled to six reps, because the rest of our support has been stolen by evil men.

I am trying to balance the need to finish my fucking PhD so I can flee if I need to with the nihilistic certainty that I shouldn't even bother because it's not like my career has a future anyway. And everywhere I look, leadership comes not from people who are older and more experienced or even in less precarious a position than mine, but from people who have as much or even more to lose than I do. The more power I see someone in my life holding, the less I see them speaking out against injustice.

I am so tired of feeling like I'm part of orphan crusades. I am so tired of feeling like I am expected to lecture people twice my age with twice my resources on the moral responsibility of standing up for our nation. I'm tired of looking around for leaders, seeing none, and taking on the responsibility of speaking up with none of the rewards or respect from my community.

I am tired! Where are my leaders? When do I get to sit down and follow, or rest under my damn fig tree? Where are the fucking adults, and why the hell has it been on a twenty six year old to observe that establishment politicians are derelict on duty and in leadership and rhetoric for the last eight years?
posted by sciatrix at 6:50 AM on February 1, 2017 [53 favorites]


AP: Senate committee approves Trump Treasury, Health nominees without Dems present after GOP changes panel's rules.

...um, where where the Democrats this morning?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:53 AM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


One tiny thing - I was on a historical tour of Central Park yesterday morning for a project, and they started talking about all the Be-Ins and protests in the park through the 60's and 70's. One of the senior Park representatives mentioned that the recent marches and protests we've seen so far really reminded him of what things used to look like, but we should be aware: we've been at cold weather protests so far. That if history can be used as precedent, as soon as people don't need weather gear, turnout will double.

It certainly gave me some extra hope.
posted by Mchelly at 6:53 AM on February 1, 2017 [39 favorites]


I pulled this graphic from the WaPo article that chris24 linked to just above.

Sometimes people need easy to understand, simple, get-it-in-one graphics. I am making sure this get around. We are a growing movement and welcome our fellow citizens.

copy to my senator dick durbin of course
posted by readery at 6:54 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Are all of these Dem senators on the no-filibuster side up for reelection next year?

Per Wikipedia:
Term ends in 2018: Heitkamp, Manchin, McCaskill, Tester
Term ends in 2020: Coons, Durbin
Term ends in 2022: Blumenthal
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 6:54 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Jonathan H. Adler, WaPo: Opinions
Gorsuch’s judicial philosophy is like Scalia’s — with one big difference


This seems like the correct approach:

[Scalia] was a strong proponent of the Chevron doctrine, under which courts are required to defer to reasonable agency interpretations of ambiguous federal statutes. Under Chevron, if a regulatory law is not crystal clear, the implementing agency gets to decide what it means.

Scalia defended Chevron against its detractors left and right, seeing a useful constraint on activist courts. Gorsuch, on the other hand, sees in Chevron a potential threat to the fundamental obligation of the judiciary to interpret federal statutes and “say what the law is.”

Writing separately in one recent case, Gorsuch explained that under the Constitution, as written, it is the job of “the people’s representatives” to “adapt the law to changing circumstances.” Under Chevron, however, federal agencies may issue legally binding interpretations of federal law and revise these interpretations as circumstances (and political administrations) change. Although he stopped short of calling for Chevron’s reversal, Gorsuch warned that “Chevron seems no less than a judge-made doctrine for the abdication of the judicial duty.”

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:55 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


...um, where where the Democrats this morning?

Not being party to a farce, apparently.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:56 AM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


Sciatrix, you are allowed to take a break. You've been doing a lot, and it is very, very easy to get burned out. You are allowed to take a breather and just listen to music or color for a bit.

Remember all of those fascism warnings that came out after the election reminded people that part of a totalitarian state is that they try to crush you, that part of resistance is still finding joy in things. You can do that.

My husband and I have an agreement that we can tell each other to stop talking about politics if either of us is in a headspace where we simply cannot take it anymore. Your partner can listen to NPR when you're not around to hear it.
posted by dinty_moore at 6:56 AM on February 1, 2017 [64 favorites]


I hate to say it, but the Democrat congresspeople are spineless. They have as much teeth as my old cat. (Who's nickname is now toothless after a recent dental vet visit)
posted by INFJ at 6:57 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Pedantry: where I wrote "term ends in" in my previous comment, please read "next election in." Their terms end on January 3 of the following year.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 6:57 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Durbin, Blumenthal, Heitkamp, Manchin, Coons, Tester, McCaskill

Aka the Arya Stark List, class of 2017. Roll over like good doggies, and maybe the Fuhrer will give you a cookie before you go wax Mitch McConnell's car.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:03 AM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


If they are your Senator, maybe a call is in order.

Done.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 7:03 AM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


Gorsuch, on the other hand, sees in Chevron a potential threat to the fundamental obligation of the judiciary to interpret federal statutes

On the gripping hand, it'll all be a moot point after the Republicans pass HR 76, which would "modify the scope of judicial review of agency actions to authorize courts reviewing agency actions to decide de novo (without giving deference to the agency's interpretation) all relevant questions of law, including the interpretation of: (1) constitutional and statutory provisions, and (2) rules made by agencies."
posted by jedicus at 7:04 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Up next after the SCOTUS failure, Democrats have to somehow oppose the 2018 budget, which is going to basically end domestic spending. Are we tired of winning yet?

Well, it's not as if this is a surprise. America is going into full austerity mode, and people are going to suffer, and people are going to die, and many Trumpoids are going to go to their deathbeds shouting AT LEAST THE WELFARE CHEATS ARE EATING THEIR SHOES TOO. AMERICA FIRST! TAKE THAT *COUGH* LIBTARDS *COUGH*

So my gameplan is the same as it was in the Reagan years, the prior Most Damaging President in American History. (As far as normalizing hatred of government, massive deregulation, dehumanizing opponents, handing all our money over to the wealthy on a golden platter, and distracting the public with smiles and waves while all of the above happens, Bonzo led the way. We're battling his children and grandchildren now.)

Keep the faith. You are not alone out there. The popular vote alone indicates that. Keep a pussy hat nearby. Keep yourself, your family, and your friends upright as best you can. Defend yourself. Plan as if the powers that be hate you and are going to deliberately target you, because it's largely true. Keep some emergency money tucked away if you can. If someone you know is drowning, extend a hand. Detach yourself from the AMERICA FIRST! true believers. Some of them will realize how badly they're being fooled, some won't. Reach out to the ones who can be reached.

And above all else, when shit hits the fan, do not feel like any of this is being done in your name. It is being done as if you do not exist, because to hardcore conservatives you do not exist or deserve to exist. Show your neighbors and the world that there are still good Americans out there.
posted by delfin at 7:06 AM on February 1, 2017 [29 favorites]


Up next after the SCOTUS failure, Democrats have to somehow oppose the 2018 budget, which is going to basically end domestic spending. Are we tired of winning yet?

Ripping the guts out of domestic spending is going to be tough for the private side of the economy to absorb without a major contraction of the economy.

Tax cuts? They're going to give the middle class back a sandwich a week.

Holy shit we are so fucked.
posted by Talez at 7:07 AM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


my senators are outright claiming that I am lying about where I make my home,

I think if you have them on record as doing this, make sure media and their facebook pages hear about it.
posted by saysthis at 7:08 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


...um, where where the Democrats this morning?

They were boycotting to deny a quorum, which is why the rules were changed.
posted by amarynth at 7:08 AM on February 1, 2017 [31 favorites]


It's worth noting that G.G. v. Gloucester, the case out of the Fourth Circuit that upheld a trans boy's right to use the boys restroom turned on a question of agency deference. It's not Chevron deference, it's Auer deference (Chevron is deference to agency interpretations of ambiguous statutes, while Auer is deference to agency interpretations of its own regulations is my understanding, a regulatory lawyer should feel free to correct me if that's wrong or missing any nuance), but it's similar and related.

G.G. is in front of the Court right now, and it seems unlikely that the Betsy DeVos Department of Education is going to keep that interpretation in the future, but it's a reminder of what is at stake in that sort of issue.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:09 AM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


@leahmcelrath:
Reuters instructs its staff to cover the Trump Administration the way they do other authoritarian regimes:
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN15F276
posted by chris24 at 7:11 AM on February 1, 2017 [100 favorites]


So my dad just turned 75. It's given me occasion to reflect on his life's work, which has been securities and antitrust litigation from the plaintiff's side — essentially suing the boards of directors of large companies on behalf of their shareholders as a class, whenever he perceived that those directors had comported themselves in ways that were unethical, illegal or self-dealing. That's right: he's been a trial lawyer, since long before that was a code word for "greedy, meddling Jew" (and we could talk all day about how effectively *that* substitution was accomplished, as well as some of the reasons why the community of trial lawyers left themselves vulnerable to the charge).

Thought I later grew skeptical of many aspects of his worldview, and moved off quite a ways to the left, he raised me to believe that the small investor was almost defenseless in this world — that big players held all the cards, and he was damned if he'd sit by without helping the helpless put up a fight. He raised me to believe that this was properly the Attorney General's job to do, but since the AG was — Administration in and Administration out, seemingly — too remiss in their duties or at least too overburdened to shoulder that burden, well, then, a thousand private AGs would have to pick up the gauntlet. He raised me to believe that corporations would get away with whatever they could, from Love Canal to the Ford Pinto to Bhopal, that unchecked corporate oligarchy would be the end of democracy, and that it was our duty to fight that oligarchy whenever and however we could.

In short, he's a liberal Democrat, not a radical of any sort. But there was meaning and honor in his work, and he did very well by it — well enough (with a little help from the New Deal) to pull himself and his family out of the immigrant working class, well enough to send me off to college, and well enough to live very comfortably indeed in his later years. Despite my politics, I begrudge him none of it. By my lights, he's earned it.

But I can't help but feel like everything he worked so hard to achieve — some *minimal* fucking accountability for corporate malfeasance, attained not by making any overt moral claim but by hitting the bad actors hard in the pocketbook — is being swept away now, alongside the more obvious and worrisome things.

I have shed literal tears, and not a few of them, for the people unjustly detained in anonymous holding facilities simply because they wanted to come back to the land where they now make their home. I trembled with grief about the six men murdered in Quebec City. I bawled like a baby last night about Nawar Anwar al-Awlaki, and couldn't stop looking at that picture of her. As so many of you have noted, it's obscene to call these losses "headfakes" or "trial balloons." They're the thing itself, night come to visit among us. And I know that for a great many that night will never lift — what has been stolen from them is too dear, and they will never live to see the other side of the sorrow.

But I also think about all the people who have worked sincerely and with great dedication all their fucking lives to make this a better and a kinder and a more decent and just society. The clinic doctors. The civics teachers. The community organizers. The interpreter-translators. The home-health aids. The crisis-line volunteers. The radical nuns. And yeah, the trial lawyers. I am having a particularly hard time accepting that all their work, too, is now swept away, like it was nothing.

And I simply cannot accept that small, a vanishingly small knot of unloved, angry, thwarted, tiny men could possibly unmake the life'swork of so many hard-working, decent people in, what, two weeks' time. So it's for them that I fight now, in addition to everyone who's more acutely in the crosshairs. It's for all the people that gave the hours and days of their lives, who got up early and went to bed too late and in between did the work — not to be some ostentatious Example, but because the work needed to be done. I fight as kind of a birthday present for my dad, I guess, because for all the differences in our politics, he taught me to love justice, and justice now needs all the help we have to give.
posted by adamgreenfield at 7:12 AM on February 1, 2017 [130 favorites]


The GOP changing the rules as soon as it suits them, why I never
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:13 AM on February 1, 2017 [19 favorites]


In "sanctuary" fight, Abbott cuts off funding to Travis County: Abbott's office said Wednesday it has canceled criminal justice grants it usually administers to the county, whose sheriff, Sally Hernandez, recently announced her department would reduce its cooperation with federal immigration authorities when they request an inmate be flagged for possible deportation. The policy was set to go into effect Wednesday.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:15 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


So, protesting and fighting back against the coming storm where possible is obviously required.

But are there any movements in the works to create a sort of shadow-welfare system? Nonprofit community food insurance? Something where you pay a small amount to help distribute resources to the needy in your region when their access to state assistance goes away.

In England in the 1840s, when the welfare state consisted of “go die in a ditch and leave me alone, I’m busy snorting snuff and gold dust” (aka this administration’s policy), a lot of the working class banded together in collective relief groups that were self-administered and self-funded. You paid your “insurance” fees, and then if you were going hungry, or laid off, or injured, you would get funds back to help you get back on your feet.

Couldn’t we revive that model, and incorporate people who are more well-off and just want to put money in as a form of “I believe in the social fabric” payment?
posted by a fiendish thingy at 7:18 AM on February 1, 2017 [22 favorites]


I have apparently made a number of my coworkers angry because I refuse to participate in their political discussions. I'm not rude about it (I hope?) but I don't want to know what their political beliefs are because I need my job.

Work is a relief from being angry and sad all the time and I resent like hell their attempts to drag it in, so I don't blame you for being cranky about it being done to you, sciatrix.
posted by winna at 7:18 AM on February 1, 2017 [18 favorites]


Ripping the guts out of domestic spending is going to be tough for the private side of the economy to absorb without a major contraction of the economy.

Also, it's going to wreak havoc on state/local revenues. State revenue departments (in both R and D controlled states) are freaking out right now. From a paywalled article at Tax Notes:
About half of the states are predicting revenue shortfalls, roughly the same number that reported budget gaps last year, said John Hicks, executive director of the National Association of State Budget Officers. “We haven’t seen numbers like that since the Great Recession when 36 states had a shortfall in fiscal 2010,” he said.

Part of why states are waiting to see what happens at the federal level, [Kim Rueben, director of the Urban Institute’s State and Local Finance Initiative] said, is because nearly a third of their money comes from federal sources, and many states’ tax systems mirror the federal one. “State tax systems and spending are really reliant on what the federal government does,” she told the audience. [...]

There was also discussion about federal funding for transportation projects and state infrastructure, for which panelists speculated that states would receive less funding. But even if federal tax reform appeared to be favorable for the states, some experts cautioned that states would not reap the benefits they expected.

“Watching this tax debate very carefully as it unfolds is going to be really important for states, and I’m not confident that tax reform at the federal level in this environment, in this era, under this president, is going to feel anything approaching the kind of windfall that states have gotten in past tax reforms,” [Nick Johnson, senior vice president for state fiscal policy at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities] said.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:19 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump right now giving an even less hinged press conference
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:22 AM on February 1, 2017


Also, it's going to wreak havoc on state/local revenues.
Yep. This is why it matters that none of Bannon's ideologues either understand or care how a modern economy actually works.
posted by adamgreenfield at 7:22 AM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


Such a shock to the economy (cut lots of spending and give the savings to people who are already merely hoarding it) seems (to my completely untrained eyes) to be a good way to make the economy collapse.

Can somebody with any knowledge of economics tell me I'm just being dumb and worrying unnecessarily?
posted by ragtag at 7:23 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


But I also think about all the people who have worked sincerely and with great dedication all their fucking lives to make this a better and a kinder and a more decent and just society. The clinic doctors. The civics teachers. The community organizers. The interpreter-translators. The home-health aids. The crisis-line volunteers. The radical nuns. And yeah, the trial lawyers. I am having a particularly hard time accepting that all their work, too, is now swept away, like it was nothing.

This is not true. Because the work that these people did benefited many, many people and touched their lives for the better. It has inspired others to do the same. The troglodytes regaining control does not mean good people disappear; it just makes it harder for them to do what they do. But struggling against rampant right-wing bullshit is a progressive's natural state and primary motivation. We're not going away.

Some of the bullshit will take generations to reverse. But some of it can be upended quickly if we get Dems back into Washington in meaningful numbers. This means helping people realize that their rapidly increasing suffering and the rise of Noncompassionate Conservativism are not coincidental. We do that by shortening that last sentence -- This means helping people.
posted by delfin at 7:25 AM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


But are there any movements in the works to create a sort of shadow-welfare system? Nonprofit community food insurance? Something where you pay a small amount to help distribute resources to the needy in your region when their access to state assistance goes away.

In England in the 1840s, when the welfare state consisted of “go die in a ditch and leave me alone, I’m busy snorting snuff and gold dust” (aka this administration’s policy), a lot of the working class banded together in collective relief groups that were self-administered and self-funded. You paid your “insurance” fees, and then if you were going hungry, or laid off, or injured, you would get funds back to help you get back on your feet.


Something similar just popped up on NextDoor for me (obviously, hyperlocal, because NextDoor).

Otherwise, I think people just sort of assume that it'll be the usual food banks and charities, which obviously don't cover everything.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:26 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


a fiendish thingy: yeah, people are doing it ("mutual aid" is a common phrase for it I've heard, and I know at least two groups of friends who are starting or deepening mutual aid groups or co-ops in their local communities). Churches are also a place to see this happening. The Latter-Day Saints, among other churches, have a church welfare program -- that's where some of the tithing goes -- and I personally know at least one person whose family was helped back on its feet by LDS church welfare. And I learned from Daniel Davies a few years ago about the role that fraternal organizations played in providing life assurance/insurance benefits to workers. The inheritors of those traditions, the Kiwanis and Elks and Rotary clubs, would also be natural places to look for this kind of movement to progress.
posted by brainwane at 7:27 AM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


But what if it works too well (or works at all) and we end up living the Republican dream of No Government Interference + Charity Will Cover It All? I mean what if we never get back the real safety net?

I mean, I understand this concern, and I'm reluctant to give them any more weapons in their horror arsenal. But I also really don't want people to die or kids to go hungry, is the thing.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 7:27 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


G.G. is in front of the Court right now, and it seems unlikely that the Betsy DeVos Department of Education is going to keep that interpretation in the future, but it's a reminder of what is at stake in that sort of issue.

I have a question about this, actually - if SCOTUS hears a case before the new guy is confirmed, he's excluded, right? They don't wait for him?

They heard oral arguments in Endrew F. v. Douglas County School District, a case about the quality of education available to students with disabilities, on January 11th. Turns out Gorsuch has ruled a number of times against the rights of students with disabilities to get a good quality education. Presuming Gorsuch gets seated sometime this spring, he won't get a vote, is that correct?
posted by anastasiav at 7:27 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]




Up next after the SCOTUS failure, Democrats have to somehow oppose the 2018 budget, which is going to basically end domestic spending. Are we tired of winning yet?

Tax cuts for the rich and austerity for the rest of us. This is exactly what I'm afraid of and in large part why I've made it my goal to get out of the south asap. I'm uncertain of an immediate full economic collapse but I'm confident there's going to be a crumbling as the foundation that supports the economy starts to give way. By the time middle-class republicans realize what's happening it's going to be too late. The great recession that started in 2007 and the south has just dug itself out of was a dress rehearsal for the upheaval to come.
posted by photoslob at 7:29 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


In "sanctuary" fight, Abbott cuts off funding to Travis County: Abbott's office said Wednesday it has canceled criminal justice grants it usually administers to the county

It's important to remember how limited these punishments are. Republicans want you to say "cut off funding to Travis County," because that sounds like Austin just has no money any more. The correct thing to say is that Abbott cut off a small portion of funding that, overwhelmingly, nobody who isn't directly employed by the Austin/Travis County law enforcement bureaucracy would ever give the slightest shit about.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:29 AM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


But are there any movements in the works to create a sort of shadow-welfare system? Nonprofit community food insurance? Something where you pay a small amount to help distribute resources to the needy in your region when their access to state assistance goes away.

In England in the 1840s, when the welfare state consisted of “go die in a ditch and leave me alone, I’m busy snorting snuff and gold dust” (aka this administration’s policy), a lot of the working class banded together in collective relief groups that were self-administered and self-funded. You paid your “insurance” fees, and then if you were going hungry, or laid off, or injured, you would get funds back to help you get back on your feet.

Couldn’t we revive that model, and incorporate people who are more well-off and just want to put money in as a form of “I believe in the social fabric” payment?


The post-Depression social safety net came to exist in part because under capitalism mutual aid only goes so far. It's empirical fact that private aid isn't enough.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:31 AM on February 1, 2017 [39 favorites]


if SCOTUS hears a case before the new guy is confirmed, he's excluded, right? They don't wait for him?

Normally no, but only by convention, not law. And sometimes the case is reargued so that the new Justice can be included.
posted by jedicus at 7:31 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


The correct thing to say is that Abbott cut off a small portion of funding that, overwhelmingly, nobody who isn't directly employed by the Austin/Travis County law enforcement bureaucracy would ever give the slightest shit about.

I don't believe that's correct to say, either. Abbott cut off the county's remaining criminal justice grants for the rest of the year.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:31 AM on February 1, 2017


But what if it works too well (or works at all) and we end up living the Republican dream of No Government Interference + Charity Will Cover It All? I mean what if we never get back the real safety net?

Private charities will never, ever cover it adequately. They're definitely worth supporting, but compared to a public safety net they're just drops in the Damage Control bucket.
posted by Rykey at 7:33 AM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


The post-Depression social safety net came to exist in part because under capitalism mutual aid only goes so far. It's empirical fact that private aid isn't enough.

Yeah, obviously? Preaching to the choir, here?

But "not going far enough" is still going father than "Randian dystopian starvation party".
posted by a fiendish thingy at 7:33 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


The post-Depression social safety net came to exist in part because under capitalism mutual aid only goes so far. It's empirical fact that private aid isn't enough.
That's right. Like defeating fascism, this is apparently a lesson we collectively have to learn for ourselves the hard way every couple of generations.

That said, I believe in mutual aid to the bone, and am a great believer in working to create permanent, horizontal infrastructure to support it.
posted by adamgreenfield at 7:34 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Haven't seen anything on this, but Prince Charles laid a smackdown royalty-style on Trump.

Things that have probably already been said here, but oh man you guys have to find the videos, they're amazing:
UK parliament opposition also called Trump a fascist. Boris the ghoul kept repeating that UK citizens won't be affected; his empathy for other countries is now zero, and it's all on tape, "15" times over.

Canadian NDP called an emergency session to remove Safe First Country Provision. Mulcair threw down the gauntlet and called Trump a fascist. Liberals optics are terrible right now, they're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
I'm a fan of Liberals, but Trudeau better go Pierre Elliot on some sorry American asses. I'd be fine with the War Measures Act and a new NEP(National Energy Policy) at this point. Alberta can suck it.
posted by Yowser at 7:36 AM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


I don't believe that's correct to say, either. Abbott cut off the county's remaining criminal justice grants for the rest of the year.

Does anyone in Austin who doesn't work for Austin PD or Travis sheriff give a shit about criminal justice grants?

At the federal level anyway stripping criminal justice grants would mostly mean that Austin PD won't have the money to remodel their conference rooms with this year's teleconferencing bullshit or build a new "Counterterrorism Command Center" that they don't need and similar things that, if you're a stereotypical resident of Austin, you probably don't like anyway.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:37 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Tax cuts for the rich and austerity for the rest of us.

This is what America voted for. (Well, not the majority of America. Well, not even the majority of VOTING America. But it's what we got.)

Every person who Just Couldn't Bring Themselves To Vote For THAT WOMAN, who voted for Trump because He's Going To Bring Back Good Manufacturing Jobs and Fossil Fuel Careers, who supported Trump because No One In Washington Is On Our Side? Yeah. Remind them of this every time they bring up how bad off they are all of a sudden and how their Social Security just got cut and their Medicare is suddenly gimped. Show them the dots and let them draw the line.
posted by delfin at 7:38 AM on February 1, 2017 [27 favorites]


"if SCOTUS hears a case before the new guy is confirmed, he's excluded, right? They don't wait for him?"

Normally no, but only by convention, not law. And sometimes the case is reargued so that the new Justice can be included.


Sorry, I should have been more clear. Normally the new Justice is excluded, but that is only a convention, not a legal requirement.
posted by jedicus at 7:38 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


The other thing is that with Trump's economic policies already on display, there's going to be a lot fucking less resources available to share, both in terms of the overall pie and the slice that goes to people who aren't billionaire thieves. We absolutely must help each other out as best we can, but part of the environment over the next several years will be a severe contraction in our ability to do so.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:38 AM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


The New Deal and other Great Depression Era programs were created to save capitalism from itself. But today's ideologues have no experience with that horrible period so it would not be surprising to me in the least if we had to drive ourselves off the cliff before we realized that bridges are important. Maybe when the dust clears we can have universal basic income. Or if things get really bad we can just eliminate money and institute Startrekocracy.
posted by Glibpaxman at 7:41 AM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Every person who Just Couldn't Bring Themselves To Vote For THAT WOMAN, who voted for Trump because He's Going To Bring Back Good Manufacturing Jobs and Fossil Fuel Careers, who supported Trump because No One In Washington Is On Our Side? Yeah. Remind them of this every time they bring up how bad off they are all of a sudden and how their Social Security just got cut and their Medicare is suddenly gimped. Show them the dots and let them draw the line.

They'll just blame Obama. The people who live in the Fox News Upside Down don't share reality with us.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:41 AM on February 1, 2017 [17 favorites]


yeah, without participation in any social welfare scheme by the billionaire thief class, it's gonna be pretty thin gruel

which is whole idea behind progressive taxation in the first place, but as adamgreenfield said, apparently if we want social democracy in this country we're going to have to invent it from first principles because american ingenuity or some shit
posted by murphy slaw at 7:41 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


how long do y'all reckon until mouthy people start mysteriously disappearing?
posted by entropicamericana at 7:42 AM on February 1, 2017 [20 favorites]


how long do y'all reckon until mouthy people start mysteriously disappearing?

for this very concern I am seriously considering for the first time ever arming my home.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 7:44 AM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


how long do y'all reckon until mouthy people start mysteriously disappearing?
Maybe we need the equivalent of jessamyn's FBI-visit sign, some kind of deadman switch that'll send up a flare if and when we go dark.

That said: fuck, man, to put it in L. Cohen's idiom, "I'm ready, my Lord." What the hell else was I going to do with my life anyway, collect pictures of exotic airports and post them to Instagram? Let's roll. Come of it what may.
posted by adamgreenfield at 7:52 AM on February 1, 2017 [33 favorites]


how long do y'all reckon until mouthy people start mysteriously disappearing?

After the mid-term elections, before the 2020 campaign
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:52 AM on February 1, 2017


Is anyone outside of North America archiving Metafilter? We might joke, and this is definitely inflated ego, but we really are the only online community continuous from before 9/11 to the Trump era.
posted by Yowser at 7:54 AM on February 1, 2017 [38 favorites]


Yeah presumably they would rehear if they wanted Gorsuch included and I sort of doubt they'd rehear for Endrew F., but you never know. The word in the special ed law community is that people thought the arguments went well, though I haven't had time to listen to the recording myself yet.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:54 AM on February 1, 2017


Ever wonder what would have happened if the Great Recession had started in Spring of 2001 and if George W Bush was an insane Nazi? Me neither and I am going to keep avoiding the thought.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:55 AM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


Reuters - President Donald Trump's travel ban imposed on citizens of seven mainly Muslim countries was a sovereign decision for the United States and not directed at any religion, United Arab Emirates Foreign Minister Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed said on Wednesday.

Speaking at a joint news conference with his Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov in Abu Dhabi, Sheikh Abdullah also said the idea of safe zones in Syria would be welcome if they were to be temporary and for humanitarian purposes under international auspices.

But he said Abu Dhabi wanted to hear more details from Washington before subscribing to the idea.


I just woke from the slumber of a hundred years, and wow, I can't believe a Gulf monarchy supports ghoulish American foreign policy
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:56 AM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


Oh and about Bannon, if you think calling him a Nazi is hyperbole?

Google "useless eaters nazis" and then "useless eaters breetbort"(with the appropriate substitution). Shiver with fear.
posted by Yowser at 7:57 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN15F276

Wow, Reuters is throwing some serious shade in its Covering Trump the Reuters Way memo: "To state the obvious, Reuters is a global news organization that reports independently and fairly in more than 100 countries, including many in which the media is unwelcome and frequently under attack. I am perpetually proud of our work in places such as Turkey, the Philippines, Egypt, Iraq, Yemen, Thailand, China, Zimbabwe, and Russia, nations in which we sometimes encounter some combination of censorship, legal prosecution, visa denials, and even physical threats to our journalists."

Nice to see some journalists understand that Trump/Bannon would be fine with joining that national club of news-suppressing regimes.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:03 AM on February 1, 2017 [65 favorites]


Is anyone outside of North America archiving Metafilter?

Paging (not MeFi's own) Jason Scott & Archive Team!
posted by progosk at 8:05 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]




Where are my leaders? When do I get to sit down and follow, or rest under my damn fig tree? Where are the fucking adults, and why the hell has it been on a twenty six year old

Unfortunately, fifth of never. The great discovery of adulthood is that the percentage of adults willing to DO things is sadly fewer than you thought. Some of us it makes cynics. Try to resist that.

But yeah, the cavalry isn't coming. It is often just you and a few overstretched allies. It's best to tune your involvement to what you can sustainably handle, because this will take years. Don't burn out in the first stretch.
posted by corb at 8:05 AM on February 1, 2017 [25 favorites]


Republicans want you to say "cut off funding to Travis County," because that sounds like Austin just has no money any more.

We really should say "Republican governor cut off funding for cops". I don't care how tangential those block grants were, if a single dollar of it went to anyone employed by a police department, then that dollar offset a dollar that Travis County could pay a police officer instead.

GREG ABBOTT PUT POLITICS ABOVE COPS.
posted by Etrigan at 8:08 AM on February 1, 2017 [23 favorites]


Scott Lemieux: The Originalism, Textualism and Strict Constructionism of Neil Gorsuch
Gorsuch will definitely be an “originalist” in the sense that Scalia was. That is, you can manipulate the levels of abstraction to reach almost any result you desire, and if there’s no possible historical case to be made for your political preference you can and will just ignore it.

And Gorsuch will also be a “textualist” in the sense that Scalia was. That is, in roughly 99% of cases the constitutional text is of no value in deciding a concrete case of any interest — OK, we have identified that the text says “unreasonable search and seizure” or “cruel and unusual punishment,” so now what? (In politically salient statutory cases, it means not mentioning legislative history in reaching the result you would have reached either way.) And in those rare cases where the constitutional text clearly forecloses your desired outcome, you can just assert that “we have understood the Eleventh Amendment to stand not so much for what it says, but for the presupposition of our constitutional structure which it confirms.”

So, yes, Gorsuch will most assuredly be an “originalist” and “textualist” in the sense that Scalia was. Which is why he should be filibustered even if his appointment was legitimate, which it isn’t.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:10 AM on February 1, 2017 [25 favorites]


Maybe we need the equivalent of jessamyn's FBI-visit sign, some kind of deadman switch that'll send up a flare if and when we go dark.

I'm not saying I've changed who my emails go to on DeadMan'sSwitch.net, but I'm not saying I haven't.
posted by Etrigan at 8:11 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Is anyone outside of North America archiving Metafilter?
I'd be happy to initiate this—using wget is part of my day job—but I'd A) need the mods sanction (since I don't want to harm the poor overworked servers) and B) would need some assistance in backing it up outside of the country (which is outside my area of expertise—I only deal with large cloud companies and they're probably not the ones to trust here) and C) would want to make sure somebody isn't already doing it (seriously, those poor robots).

What is the appropriate place to discuss this? MetaTalk? MeMail?

Please look kindly upon me, robots, when you become sentient and take over the planet. <3
posted by ragtag at 8:14 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


"Originalism" is and aways was a dishonest way to cloak Republican policy preferences in a thin veneer of pseudointellectualism. It's a made up framework based on nothing that allows for justifying any outcome. Might as well talk about the legal tradition underlying the History of Magic Law course at Hogwarts.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:14 AM on February 1, 2017 [18 favorites]


Ivan Pavlov, a Moscow human rights lawyer, announced to day that one of the 4 cybersecurity professionals arrested last month is his client, and the alleged hackers are charged with “treason on behalf of the US”.

Can't help wondering whether these were the CIA assets that the agency was trying to protect, and how curious it is that they were pulled just after Trump came in.
posted by Devonian at 8:14 AM on February 1, 2017 [28 favorites]


GREG ABBOTT PUT POLITICS ABOVE COPS.

That and he put his opinion about how to keep the county safe over the sheriffs. One thing that gets lost in discussions of sanctuary cities is that they are often supported by the police in the areas that implement them. They help police do their jobs in communities with large undocumented populations and holding someone on an ICE detainer has created legal liability for police that jail people solely on the basis of those detainers.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:14 AM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


Supporting evidence that the immigration changes signify the administration completely giving up on vetting because they can't figure out any way to make it more "extreme", or never cared about vetting in the first place: Bannon interviewing Zinke (now the Secretary of the Interior nominee) in 2015, rebroadcast on this morning's Democracy Now! (at about 40:45, alt link, .torrent) and in other sources:
Zinke: Well, I think we need to do two things, or three things: one is, we need to put a stop on refugees until we can vet. Y'know, we've been through a number of classified briefings...

Bannon: Why stop until we vet? I don't understand—what do you mean, vet? Why not just stop? Why are you going through all of this thing about vetting, the opportunity cost of vetting?

Zinke: Vetting's important because we don't know...

Bannon: Why vet... Commander, you only vet if you're going to let them in. Why even let them in?
posted by XMLicious at 8:17 AM on February 1, 2017 [21 favorites]


Can't help wondering whether these were the CIA assets that the agency was trying to protect, and how curious it is that they were pulled just after Trump came in.

When does the Senate investigation of Russian hacking theoretically start?

And do we know for sure that there's still an open investigation at the FBI? Aren't we due for an update on the subject?
posted by diogenes at 8:18 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Winnie Stachelberg goes on the record w/ concerns about a possible religious liberty/anti-LGBT EO (Link is to a tweet by Chris Geidner, of Buzzfeed)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:18 AM on February 1, 2017


Patriot ACT allowed FBI to request your library book history and prevented librarians from telling you about it. Jessmyn came up with a sign that said "We haven't had any requests for information". If the sign went missing you knew that they had.

short version, probably missing a lot of nuance.
posted by birdheist at 8:19 AM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


google "warrant canary"
posted by ArgentCorvid at 8:20 AM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


That and he put his opinion about how to keep the county safe over the sheriffs.

While obviously those sovereign citizen idiots who say that the only valid authority is the county sheriff would side with Abbott 1000% of the time, and I don't think it would change their mind or shame them into anything because both of those are impossible, I still kind of want to see what inane self-contradictory logic they'd come up with to defend their position.
posted by Copronymus at 8:21 AM on February 1, 2017


Called McCaskill's St. Louis office. The nice lady on the other end of the line put up with my lack of erudition and seemed to know exactly what i was getting at.
posted by notsnot at 8:23 AM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


I still don't understand how we as a society can have all of these great programs and policies that make life easier, safer, more productive, and just plain better for so many people, and these punks can roll into power and decide "Nope! Canceling it all! Moral fortitude! Bootstraps! (pass the bowl of diamonds over here, i'm still hungry)" We're trying to have a civilized society over here and these idiots are disrupting everything with their destructive decisions. I just. Don't. Understand.
posted by Servo5678 at 8:23 AM on February 1, 2017 [62 favorites]


The older I get the more I'm struck by how hard and for how long anyone on the liberal/left has to work to get even the most incremental policies implemented, and how fast and easy it seems to be for conservatives to come along afterward and sweep it all away like an avalanche.

I guess what it comes down to is that it's easier to tear down than to build up.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:26 AM on February 1, 2017 [71 favorites]


If Manchin is your Senator, a lot of alcohol is in order

If Manchin is your senator, you are a resident of West Virginia and honestly you probably have much bigger problems just from that than you do with Manchin.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:27 AM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


When Ted Cruz talks it sounds like a fart being forced through a kazoo
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:31 AM on February 1, 2017 [24 favorites]


If you're building a bridge, you need to understand physics, engineering, finance, people, the law and running a complicated mix of things. And it's going to take a long time.

If you're blowing up a bridge, you just need to know how to send a thug in with dynamite. You can do it in minutes.

That we've got this far building bridges is a good sign we can carry on once we've got rid of the fuckers. But we have to learn how to stop thugs with dynamite.
posted by Devonian at 8:33 AM on February 1, 2017 [75 favorites]


Hell of a fuckin' thing to say about kazoos.
posted by Etrigan at 8:33 AM on February 1, 2017 [25 favorites]


this might have been posted already, but worth reiterating: Advice from a seasoned activist and organizer: How to stay outraged without losing your mind.
posted by numaner at 8:33 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


When does the Senate investigation of Russian hacking theoretically start?

Hahahhaahhahahahahahahahicantbreathe. Never.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:35 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]




Sessions' nomination approved by the Senate Judiciary Committee on an 11-9 party line-vote.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:43 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]




It's like a second Gettysburg address.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:50 AM on February 1, 2017 [17 favorites]


If Donald Trump actually knows who Douglass was I'll eat my shoe.
posted by dis_integration at 8:51 AM on February 1, 2017 [25 favorites]


Maybe now Douglass will finally get the cred he deserves, thanks to Trump
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:52 AM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


The use of "has done" is making me question if he knows when Frederick Douglass lived.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:53 AM on February 1, 2017 [42 favorites]


One of the few notable things about the town I went to high school in was that the residents tried to kill Frederick Douglass when he spoke there. You can probably already guess how the county voted.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:54 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


A full transcript of President Trump's speech to his Black History Month event.

There are no words for this. It's shameful, embarrassing, horrifying. And he, and many, many others, probably think it's just fine, just dandy. Holy christ.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:55 AM on February 1, 2017 [46 favorites]


Elon James White has an idea.
posted by pxe2000 at 8:55 AM on February 1, 2017 [10 favorites]


Oh, man, I want to buy everything I can by Douglass, but I know that Bannon's puppet would just take credit for the jump in sales.
posted by Etrigan at 8:59 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Arya Stark List, class of 2017.

A Girl Has No President.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:00 AM on February 1, 2017 [27 favorites]


Trump just described Frederick Douglass as "someone who has done a terrific job that is being recognized by more and more people"

Frederick Douglass has won the middle school science fair.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:01 AM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


If Donald Trump actually knows who Douglass was I'll eat my shoe.

He did pass this during the inaugural parade. That was the viewing platform in front of the Wilson Building, the seat of DC local government, about two blocks from the White House. Possibly why the name was stuck in his mind?
posted by everybody had matching towels at 9:01 AM on February 1, 2017


Frederick Douglass has won the middle school science fair.

Well sure, he invented all those ways to use peanuts, the traffic signal, the gas mask ... so many, many tremendous accomplishments.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:06 AM on February 1, 2017 [18 favorites]


Don't forget about his debates with Lincoln.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:07 AM on February 1, 2017 [21 favorites]


A boot being a land of contrasts, forever.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:08 AM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


Now come on, everybody, credit where credit is due: Trump's Black History Month comments didn't mention "inner cities" ONCE.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:11 AM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


Here's a letter I've faxed to my (generally quite good) Senators, Schumer, and Durbin about the Democratic collaborators in the Senate. Please feel free to use some of all of it. Flood their inboxes, fax machines, and phone lines--Gorsuc* must not be confirmed without unanimous opposition from the Democratic caucus.

I've tried to include some of what I'm seeing here--that this is alienating party's base of women, people of color, religious minority practitioners, and LGBTQ folks.
Senator,

I am furious and extremely discouraged by your Democratic colleagues, Dick Durbin, Richard Blumenthal, Claire McCaskill, Jon Tester, Heidi Heitkamp, Joe Manchin, and Chris Coons because they have said they will not filibuster the Neil Gorsuch SCOTUS nomination. His appointment is illegitimate because this seat was President Obama's to fill. Moreover, Gorsuch will be a complete flaming disaster for:

- Women's reproductive rights
- Public Education
- Racial equality
- Disabled children's education
- Environmental, water, food, and drug safety
- Voting rights
- LGBTQ rights
- And the list goes on and on and on

I am extremely disturbed, especially by the #2 Senate Democrat, Dick Durbin's apparent unwillingness to filibuster. This seat was STOLEN by the Republican party. If the Democrats in the Senate won't go to the mat to at least make a show of protecting our rights, how can the progressive base count on the party leadership?

Please tell each of these Senators that their actions endanger the support of the party base. The filibuster is dead as soon as the Republicans want it to be. Failing to stand up as a unanimous block against this nomination WILL drive the base out--women, people of color, religious minorities, LGBTQ people. If the Democratic leadership won't go to the mat for this, I may have to change my registration to [non-affiliated/local third party/whatever]. These are not normal times. Gorsuch should be treated with as much contempt as the majority party showed Merrick Garland--no support at all.

Sincerely,
EC
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:11 AM on February 1, 2017 [47 favorites]


> Patton Oswalt gets mocked for dead wife by Trumpite realtor. Patton Oswalt responds.

I won't spoil the ending.


I will, because there's another part to this. The Trumpite was fired from their job, which is a delightful bit of schadenfreude, but Patton Oswalt has written up a regretful but insightful account of this incident (Facebook, but you don't need an account to read the post). The entirety of the post is worth reading as Patton Oswalt puts this far more eloquently than I.

From observing Trump supporters, it seems they are most gleeful about finally being able to say every possible horrible fucked up inappropriate shit that comes to mind, #nofilter, and not even have to pretend "oh that was a joke". Trump does, after all, and look where it got him. Never mind Trump's financial independence starting with a million dollar loan from his father.

Except a Trump supporter who isn't also a millionaire still needs their job and has family and friends, and being a loud mount asshole with no filter who constantly makes shit up isn't going to win over anybody, and that's going to come back to haunt them on a personal level, regardless of any move, by any president.

Let us be good to each other in these trying times.
posted by fragmede at 9:13 AM on February 1, 2017 [43 favorites]


Trump's Black History Month comments didn't mention "inner cities" ONCE.

Not sure if serious. Because he sure fucking did.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:13 AM on February 1, 2017 [18 favorites]


He doesn't know who the fuck Frederick Douglass is and I would bet my life savings that if put on the spot, he couldn't name another AA historical figure outside of MLK and Rosa Parks.
posted by windbox at 9:13 AM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


His knowledge of Black History is a 1st grade curriculum. No shade to them, but in 2017 if the only AA history makers you know are Rosa Parks, Frederick Douglas, MLK and Harriet Tubman, you need to pay more attention.
posted by archimago at 9:13 AM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


Oh my god, I didn't see there was a second page. I wish I still hadn't seen it.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:16 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Well, fuck.
posted by drezdn at 9:16 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


AP: Senate committee approves Trump Treasury, Health nominees without Dems present after GOP changes panel's rules.

Well, the slightest inclination that any wavering Democrat in the Senate might have had to vote for these fuckers in the name of tradition or comity or whatever the fuck should be dead. If you're OK with cabinet secretaries lying to Congress about the ethical and other issues they demonstrably have, and then getting rushed through because, to the shock of one and all, Republicans don't give a shit about the rules, then get the fuck out of the party and get the fuck out of power, because you are worthless.

I honestly don't know what more evidence anyone in the Democratic Party leadership could possibly need that these assholes don't respect you or the process, are untrustworthy and underhanded, and are only looking to make America worse for their own benefit, but, fuck it, some of these idiots are apparently still on the fence about that, so I guess it's worth saying again.
posted by Copronymus at 9:18 AM on February 1, 2017 [35 favorites]


The Trumpite was fired from their job, which is a delightful bit of schadenfreude, but Patton Oswalt has written up a regretful but insightful account of this incident

I'm having trouble seeing the regret there.
But I'm afraid Peoria Realtor is going to the first in a long line of Trumpers who will realize, on the other side of firings and divorces and black eyes, that Trump's Teflon Umbrella covers Trump and no one else.

His cabinet and staff are going to learn that as well.

That might be fun.

Try to be nice. As far as that goes.
posted by Etrigan at 9:19 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


He just "I have black friends"'d the entire nation. Oh my god.
posted by nakedmolerats at 9:20 AM on February 1, 2017 [19 favorites]


"In conclusion, Black History Month is a land of contrasts."
posted by dirigibleman at 9:22 AM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


Memo to Indivisible/MoveOn organizers: stop with the folk songs right out of PCU's bongo protests. They visibly deflate the crowd. "Singing This Land is Our Land" and "America the Beautiful" and "We Shall Not Be Moved" lead by acoustic guitar through a bullhorn makes people feel like they've already lost.

Bring a sound system and just play Fight The Power. Real loud.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:29 AM on February 1, 2017 [96 favorites]


Palate cleanser:
Girls in Kabul learning Chinese martial arts.
posted by Too-Ticky at 9:32 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


I actually really liked the couple of times we sang "This Land is Your Land" at the anti-immigration ban protests. There's another verse that actually mentions a wall, too, if you're comfortable with the socialism.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:32 AM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


trump: "*makes gesture*"
trump private policing schadenfreude man grabs reporter and throws him out, tells reporter to gtfo his country.
video, check it.

They're not even playing pretend anymore.
posted by xcasex at 9:36 AM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


xcasex, that video's from 2015. Not that it's not horrifying.
posted by EarBucket at 9:37 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


xcasex, that video is from 2015. Not that it makes it any less horrific, but this was not a current event.
posted by Heretic at 9:38 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


I think that clip is pretty old, some response says 2015 and he's got a TRUMP campaign sign on the front of the podium (not even Trump/Pence yet).
posted by zempf at 9:38 AM on February 1, 2017


Folk songs vary by crowd - I've seen people get pretty into it at the airport protest here.

I think the key part of activism is to know your people - some people prefer folk songs, some prefer non-folk songs, some settings are good for folk songs, some settings are good for other songs.

As I've said elsewhere, songs with iconic choruses really do get people singing along - this summer, a better time that already seems impossibly long ago, it was "Freedom" from Lemonade.

On another note, for reasons I get a weekly update from the Financial Times. This week's was anti-Trump. The Financial Times is anti-Trump and broadcasting that fact to every single person who gets their updates:

He is what he said he was: an enemy of free trade, immigration, regulation, abortion rights; a defender of the American fossil fuel industry and the use of torture. He won an election on these foundations, and his energetic pursuit of them as president is fitting and legitimate.

Also, it calls him "deaf to the echoes of history".

The only remotely reassuring (!!!!) thing in the past months is that American business seems to be getting pretty freaked out, and if anyone can lean effectively on Republican congresspeople, it will be big business. Will senators be more afraid of losing their seats to Trumpist constituents or of losing their financial backing (and considerable value in their investments)? Will anyone crack?
posted by Frowner at 9:42 AM on February 1, 2017 [24 favorites]


I still don't understand how we as a society can have all of these great programs and policies that make life easier, safer, more productive, and just plain better for so many people, and these punks can roll into power and decide "Nope! Canceling it all! Moral fortitude! Bootstraps! (pass the bowl of diamonds over here, i'm still hungry)" We're trying to have a civilized society over here and these idiots are disrupting everything with their destructive decisions. I just. Don't. Understand.

Because people get used to these things, and they don't understand where they're coming from. (For example, "keep the government out of my Medicare.") They say that welfare is for the lazy, while ignoring that virtually everyone benefits from social programs in one form or another. They don't understand how vast social programs are. One example is that I think the number I've heard of people covered by government healthcare is 30% of the US. That includes Medicare, Tricare, Medicaid, people who get coverage via government jobs at all levels, etc. People are insulated from the effects of cutting social programs.

It doesn't affect a lot of these people in a form they understand. That's likely to change soon.
posted by azpenguin at 9:43 AM on February 1, 2017 [25 favorites]


ugh sorry for posting it, i just found it retweeted over and over in my feed :/
posted by xcasex at 9:44 AM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


I am a little disappointed that I actually got through on the phone to my senators in Washington State today, keep up those calls!

In other news, I'm glad that Patty Murray made a statement on the supreme court nominee condemning Trump's attack on the separation of powers. I called her and thanked her for it.

Maria Cantwell's statement was disappointingly weak. So if you are in Washington state, I urge you to call her office and make it clear that this is not acceptable and she needs to makes a clear statement condemning Trump's attack on the separation of powers and the rule of law and against the judicial nomination.
posted by Zalzidrax at 9:44 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


USA Today: NAACP president Cornell Williams Brooks and 10 more activists arrested again in sit-in outside Sessions' office
posted by porn in the woods at 9:45 AM on February 1, 2017 [32 favorites]


Never mind Trump's financial independence starting with a million dollar loan from his father.

It was actually $14 million, $31 million in today's dollars. And that doesn't count what he eventually inherited once his father died. I only bring it up because while the "million dollar loan" cuts against his self-made claim, it still really undersells how much of a leg up he had.

And for your "fake news!" crying Republican friends, that's from the Murdoch-owned and conservative WSJ.
posted by chris24 at 9:49 AM on February 1, 2017 [45 favorites]


xcasex, that video is from 2015. Not that it makes it any less horrific, but this was not a current event.

It's worth watching and considering that this is how they were acting while they were still a sideshow.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:49 AM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


The only remotely reassuring (!!!!) thing in the past months is that American business seems to be getting pretty freaked out, and if anyone can lean effectively on Republican congresspeople, it will be big business. Will senators be more afraid of losing their seats to Trumpist constituents or of losing their financial backing (and considerable value in their investments)? Will anyone crack?

Even the Kochs are making some damning statements so something is buzzing in their bonnet enough to go public. Can only imagine what levers there playing with behind the scenes. They're after something.
posted by Jalliah at 9:51 AM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


Bring a sound system and just play Fight The Power. Real loud.

I've been meaning to make an Ask about singable protest playlists. Maybe tonight.
posted by deludingmyself at 9:52 AM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]



I like the screaming in Nazi faces version of "This Little Light of Mine." That was the most fun I've had singing at a protest.
posted by Jalliah at 9:55 AM on February 1, 2017 [15 favorites]


I still don't understand how we as a society can have all of these great programs and policies that make life easier, safer, more productive, and just plain better for so many people, and these punks can roll into power and decide "Nope! Canceling it all! Moral fortitude! Bootstraps! (pass the bowl of diamonds over here, i'm still hungry)" We're trying to have a civilized society over here and these idiots are disrupting everything with their destructive decisions. I just. Don't. Understand.

We as a society don't have one vision that allows for everyone to succeed, or that can imagine winners without losers, or that encourages everyone to help each other succeed. It's like no one realizes just how much their good fortune can depend on the efforts of others. Think of the fortunes made off of Seinfeld. That money didn't just appear out of thin air.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:58 AM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


Churches are also a place to see this happening. The Latter-Day Saints, among other churches, have a church welfare program -- that's where some of the tithing goes -- and I personally know at least one person whose family was helped back on its feet by LDS church welfare.

This is real reassuring if you are queer and used to being targeted for harassment by those same churches. My grim gut response here is "wonderful, now those churches will have a tighter hold on more people, which means more foot soldiers against me." Look at the Salvation Army; Church charity isn't a luxury all of us can fall on.
posted by sciatrix at 10:02 AM on February 1, 2017 [62 favorites]


I think one impediment to the use of protest songs right now is that people know the songs, but they don't necessarily know all the lyrics. That's certainly true for me. I was thinking of trying to print a few hundred copies of a small collection of protest song lyrics to pass out at the next rally.
posted by biogeo at 10:02 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Re music, about to go tweak that Spotify playlist I'd been working on based on crowd observations. Lily Allen, songs from musicals, Bob Marley, and yes, This Land Is Your Land have had good results so far. Solidarity Forever, too.
posted by sciatrix at 10:05 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Yes! We need protest Songbooks!

Hmm. I know a guy who runs a print shop...
posted by notyou at 10:07 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


sciatrix can you share your playlist?
posted by ian1977 at 10:07 AM on February 1, 2017


Bonus of Spotify : the Genius app will automatically pull up lyrics to sing along with if you have both apps installed.
posted by sciatrix at 10:07 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


That Black History Month speech has made me feel like I need a Xanax. It's easy to forget the past couple of weeks that even if he stops being evil and gets rid of Bannon and all that, he's still such an embarrassing fool.
posted by something something at 10:08 AM on February 1, 2017


snuffleupagus, agreed and didn't intend to sound as if I were stating otherwise. It is important to me to keep an appropriate timeline, which is what I was pointing out (along with others).
posted by Heretic at 10:10 AM on February 1, 2017


Hey guys, just as a heads up, I'm still apparently on Cruz email lists, and just got a "Should the GOP do whatever it takes (including nuclear option) to get the SCOTUS nominee through?" poll. So that seems to maybe be being considered.

Personally, I think there's value in keeping the filibuster for legislation at least, but I understand there's value in getting a punch in.
posted by corb at 10:10 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Rise Up Singing songbooks are a good model to copy.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:11 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Oh, it wasn't a criticism. I'm just saying, imagine how bold they're feeling now.

(At least, the ones who aren't feeling any buyer's remorse.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:11 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


It's kleptocracy turtles all the way down:

Susanne Craig:
Trump’s Army secretary pick is in talks to buy stake in an airline w significant government contracts

Hiroko Tabuchi: That airline, Swift, is said to take in $15-18 million a year, in part from deporting illegal immigrants for @ICEgov
posted by bluecore at 10:12 AM on February 1, 2017 [22 favorites]


Personally, I think there's value in keeping the filibuster for legislation at least

Do you honestly, in your proverbial bones, believe that they will not nuke the filibuster the very first time the Democrats try to use it for anything?
posted by Etrigan at 10:12 AM on February 1, 2017 [35 favorites]


So that seems to maybe be being considered.

By Cruz. He's taking the temperature of his honor guard.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:12 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


republicans are convinced that the federal government is just a big pile of waste, pork, and boodoggles, because by god that's what they do to it every time they get their hands on the steering wheel
posted by murphy slaw at 10:14 AM on February 1, 2017 [38 favorites]


Here's your Spicer briefing link for 1:30pm ET. I assume people will be super focused on whatever notes he is passed today!
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:15 AM on February 1, 2017


(By everyone else too, I'm sure but I haven't seen anything like this pop up from the party itself yet. )
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:15 AM on February 1, 2017


Is it time for Spicer to retweet his password again?
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:16 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Right, pausing to sit down and modify it. I need to change all live versions with someone chattering at the crowd beforehand to just-the-song-no-frills recordings, add and remove a few things that haven't gone down well, and keep an ear out for a few other newer and pop culture songs that will go well. Like I said, musicals went down spectacular at the March. Bread and Roses probably would be particularly appropriate if anyone remembered the words, so I think that one I'm going to start encouraging people to memorize and practice--I was thinking about meeting for an online choir or something but that shit turns out to be really hard to organize logistically, and I can't travel easily around town much of the time.

The playlist is collaborative, so please do make suggestions or let me know if you have a better version than mine for a particular piece. I made an ask a few weeks ago which has a bunch of suggestions in it, too. Works best if you go through it and pick the next songs to be played on the app of someone with a paid Spotify version, so you can work out what will go down best with your own personal crowd--e.g., skipping over the labor songs and pulling up all the musical pieces if you suddenly wind up surrounded by a pack of Broadway nerds marching along, as has happened to me. I turn up to everything I'm protesting now with a big old portable speaker and hope to god my phone's dodgy Bluetooth doesn't fuck me over, and then I turn it on when folks seem antsy and looking for something to do but chanting doesn't seem to be cutting it. Works pretty well, as long as I gauge the songs right.

(Please don't be offended if I prune stuff, though. The linked playlists people handed me in the Ask were often bloated all to shit and not very useful for that reason, so I'm taking a jaundiced eye to the list and working on making sure I don't leave stuff in that just makes people confused when we meet up.))
posted by sciatrix at 10:16 AM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


Do you honestly, in your proverbial bones, believe that they will not nuke the filibuster the very first time the Democrats try to use it for anything?

1000%, yes. I think they'll nuke it for justices, and maybe ACA repeal. But I don't think they would nuke it over "boring" legislation, which can still do a lot of damage.
posted by corb at 10:18 AM on February 1, 2017


The irony of Trump observing Black History Month is palpable.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:18 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


as an aside there are almost 3k results for a search of struggle and protest songs on smithsonian folkways
posted by poffin boffin at 10:21 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump loses suit over golf club memberships: A federal judge has ordered a golf club owned by President Donald Trump to refund nearly $6 million to members who said Trump's team essentially confiscated refundable deposits after taking over the country club in 2012
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:22 AM on February 1, 2017 [29 favorites]


A few quick things:
- I called my senators, Warren and Markey, to thank them for their statements about Gorsuch (whose name my autocorrect wants to change to "Gorshin"; there's a joke here). I'm generally happy with Warren (apart from her support of Ben Carson and Nicki Haley), but Markey can be a little wishy-washy. I told his people in no uncertain terms that if Markey doesn't support the filibuster, that I would canvass for whoever primaries him in 2018. I've voted for Markey since I was old enough to vote (!), so this was a big statement for me.
- I also called my Rep, Katherine Clark, to ask her to vote against overturning the coal regulations. She's apparently out today due to a family emergency, but her people took down my support and thanked me for my call.
- Side note: all the Washington numbers were busy and I had to call out-of-the-way offices to get a person. This is frustrating and reassuring.
- Additionally, I called the two synagogues closest to me. I got a person at one of them who said they hadn't gotten any threats and didn't need any help from the community at large, and I got a machine at the other one.
- And finally: I've been playing a fair amount of Guthrie in my busking sets, because the songs are easy to play and I get tipped for them. I can't play "Fight The Power" because (a) it's impossible to play on a solo instrument, and (b) I'm White. If you have any suggestions for things I could play while I'm busking, let me know.
posted by pxe2000 at 10:22 AM on February 1, 2017 [16 favorites]


The irony of Trump observing Black History Month is palpable.

as is the sessions nomination making its way out of committee on feb 1
posted by murphy slaw at 10:22 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Spotify playlist of protest movement songs suggested by Repairers of the Breach.

I swear I am not affiliated with them or with Rev. Barber, but he and his organization are one of the few places where I am consistently finding hope these days. To whichever MeFi poster was previously singing his praises on here and suggesting reading The Third Reconstruction: thank you, thank you, thank you.
posted by timestep at 10:23 AM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


I wish somebody would do something to jazz up Die Gedanken Sind Frei because that one seems like it's going to become super relevant in 3 . . . 2. . .
posted by HotToddy at 10:23 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


1000%, yes. I think they'll nuke it for justices, and maybe ACA repeal. But I don't think they would nuke it over "boring" legislation, which can still do a lot of damage.

I wish I shared your optimism on this one. Unfortunately, I see very few incentives for them not to eliminate it across the board. Without a filibuster, it'd be extremely easy to encode gerrymandering and vote suppression into federal law, in order to preserve the power of a numerical minority beyond the 115th Congress.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:24 AM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


I feel like if your name sounds natural after "Darth" you shouldn't be a Supreme Court justice.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:24 AM on February 1, 2017 [26 favorites]


(whose name my autocorrect wants to change to "Gorshin"; there's a joke here)

More of a riddle than a joke.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 10:25 AM on February 1, 2017 [17 favorites]


Do you honestly, in your proverbial bones, believe that they will not nuke the filibuster the very first time the Democrats try to use it for anything?

I believe they will not nuke it at the first opportunity. Senators from both parties value their independence from the party machinery (Dems moreso than GOPers perhaps, but still). The filibuster preserves that independence and gives them opportunities to exercise it; finding one's self in voteslot numbers 51-60 is a great place to be, and for the majority party Senators, it's pretty good to be in 45-50.
posted by notyou at 10:27 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Now come on, everybody, credit where credit is due: Trump's Black History Month comments didn't mention "inner cities" ONCE.

And he didn't once use the phrase "good slave owners".
posted by Talez at 10:27 AM on February 1, 2017


Because, you know, that's a bar that I wasn't quite sure Trump could clear.
posted by Talez at 10:27 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Frank Gorshin, everyone! [pop culture reference, don't forget to tip your waitperson]
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:28 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


lol

"Darth Bork"

rule works well
posted by radicalawyer at 10:35 AM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


Doing away with the filibuster for ACA repeal would require eliminating it for all legislation. You don't suspend Senate rules on a bill-by-bill basis.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:37 AM on February 1, 2017





There’s a guy standing behind Nigel Farage in the European Parliament holding a sign saying he’s lying

Farage is talking on the US Muslim ban and wearing a Trump lapel.

“Nigel Farage wearing a Donald Trump badge at the European Parliament is the most pathetic thing I’ve seen in my life.” writes @Mangal2.

posted by Jalliah at 10:38 AM on February 1, 2017 [23 favorites]


@jadande
Total words used to praise MLK, Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman & Rosa Parks: 53. Number of words used to praise Omarosa: 51.
posted by chris24 at 10:38 AM on February 1, 2017 [28 favorites]


Traditional protest music is just too earnest and aspirational for the moment, imo. We're having our rights and democracy ripped away and trod upon nakedly.

More Public Enemey and Rage Against the Machine. Credence and Springfield and Country Joe, etc. if you prefer. Less Seeger and Guthrie.

I'll post some playlists later.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:38 AM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


@KatyTurNBC
"I checked w Parliamentarian and they don't allow 'Hell No', so I'll be voting, 'No.'" - Sen Whitehouse on Tillerson [video]
posted by chris24 at 10:43 AM on February 1, 2017 [47 favorites]


Once again, it's time for that regularly scheduled ritual of public televised humiliation and rejection of the Ice Cream of the Future; it's Spicer time: C-SPAN link
posted by zachlipton at 10:44 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Regarding the filibuster -- remember, even among the relatively more disciplined and unified Republicans, there is still no "they" in the senate. There are 52 senators, and 50 of them have to agree to nuke the filibuster for it to happen. While "they" the party would be better off, policy-wise, without the filibuster right now, it's not the case that the centrist Republicans necessarily would. Right now about 5-8 of them get a lot of attention from being necessary for that 60 vote threshold, and all would be essentially demoted to rank-and-file members with the 50-vote threshold.* So while on pure policy dimensions even the centrist Republicans would probably prefer the policies coming from a nuked filibuster, on a personal level they really like the power the filibuster gives to centrists, which leads to a lot of chin-stroking about the importance of senate procedures, etc, though that is mainly a cover for the fact that they like their personal prestige. So it's not a given that "they," the party, can actually convince all their centrist members to give up the filibuster even in the midst of the Republican radicalization.

* [It's more than 2 because there are multiple dimensions that votes occur on, so different senators can be necessary for the 60-vote threshold at different times, giving a bunch of them a taste of that centrist prestige. They can also nuke the filibuster for the SC and not anything else, or indeed for any policy subcategory they choose -- the Senate can make whatever rules for itself it wants, basically.]
posted by chortly at 10:44 AM on February 1, 2017 [17 favorites]


And he didn't once use the phrase "good slave owners".

I mean there was a throwaway line about how awesome Thomas Jefferson was, does that count?
posted by teraflop at 10:45 AM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


Do you think I could legitimately get people singing along to something like Bad Religion if they weren't already familiar with it? Honest question. Or--oh, hey, Twenty One Pilots' "Stressed Out?" Everlast's "What It's Like?"

I originally included a couple of Dropkick Murphys recordings but found that no one could understand the words through the slurring, which is the reason I'm primarily selecting acoustic music. I've got a Projects piece submitted for this playlist now so I don't keep having to hunt it down and link it.
posted by sciatrix at 10:46 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


This is actually the first time I've watched Sean Spicer speak... is he always this awkward?
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 10:48 AM on February 1, 2017


Awkward? Just wait until the Q&A starts.
posted by mochapickle at 10:50 AM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


is he always this awkward?

Usually worse.
posted by chris24 at 10:50 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


is he always this awkward?

actually he's not doing to bad compared to the usual shit show. maybe by 2020 he'll be able to string together 5 or ten words without stumbling.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:51 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Of all the songs on my mind lately I keep coming back to PWEI's "Ich Bin Ein Ausländer"
posted by jason_steakums at 10:51 AM on February 1, 2017 [10 favorites]


democrats use every tool to prevent donald from making America great again. mmmmkay
posted by ian1977 at 10:51 AM on February 1, 2017


Could you not memorize some of this crap? Its not like he is reciting Ulysses
posted by ian1977 at 10:52 AM on February 1, 2017


Spicer is directing our attention to the polls that prove that 57% of "likely voters" approve of the Muslim ban.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:53 AM on February 1, 2017


Sean Spicer speak... is he always this awkward?

Only when he's lying.
posted by uncleozzy at 10:54 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Spicer is directing our attention to the polls that prove that 57% of "likely voters" approve of the Muslim ban.

And now we see Rasmussen's purpose.
posted by dirigibleman at 10:54 AM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


So that's it then, there's the groundwork laid for Trump's war with Iran.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 10:55 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


You don't suspend Senate rules on a bill-by-bill basis.

Well, you don't NOW, but yesterday, you didn't hold a committee vote without a quorum either.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:55 AM on February 1, 2017 [26 favorites]


And now he has Flynn out there pretty much threatening war with Iran.
posted by azpenguin at 10:56 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


It was also just announced that Republican Senator Susan Collins will vote NO on De Vos.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:56 AM on February 1, 2017 [53 favorites]


Being more popular with voters doesn't make something constitutional. If it did, Hillary would be president.
posted by TwoWordReview at 10:56 AM on February 1, 2017 [44 favorites]


Given the failure of likely voter screens that's probably true.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:56 AM on February 1, 2017


Did Spicer use the word "ban?"
posted by zakur at 10:56 AM on February 1, 2017


So flynn just walked in to put Iran "on notice" and then walked off. We're going to war within 6 months.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:56 AM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


Doing everything they can to protect American citizens and institutions? good grief
posted by ian1977 at 10:57 AM on February 1, 2017


I'm glad this admin is so precise in matters of diplomacy. We're all gonna die.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:57 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


I see very few incentives for them not to eliminate it across the board. Without a filibuster, it'd be extremely easy to encode gerrymandering and vote suppression into federal law, in order to preserve the power of a numerical minority beyond the 115th Congress.

This is exactly why I think the danger is so real. I know a lot of people have a lot of reasons for disliking Gorsuch, and I'm not going to tell you those reasons are invalid. But he is a respected conservative judge, and my feeds are full of praise of him, even from people who are so disgusted with Trump they wrote in their three-year-old. just as Democrats were often mobilized by the filibuster of Garland, so too I think regular Republicans will be by this filibuster if enacted. I think, just like with Garland, even people who normally believe the filibuster is very important might be motivated to see it slide. That would give the Republicans cover to remove it for everything, nominations and legislation. I think many of them would be seeking excuses, and this would give that to them.

If I were a democratic legislator determined to oppose fascism, I honestly wouldn't be worrying about being primaried, I'd be worrying about the republic. I would save the filibuster, and try to use it for one out of every three bills – enough to be somewhat obstructionist, but not enough to be seen as completely obstructionist. I would also be throwing up completely boring legislation right now, to produce a slowdown in the chamber.

But I just don't think that Democratic legislators see it that way. I think they're thinking about defending their seats, and Business As Usual. So who knows.
posted by corb at 10:57 AM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]



So that's it then, there's the groundwork laid for Trump's war with Iran.

What did he say please?
posted by Jalliah at 10:58 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Sanctuary cities: Federal funds from "hardworking americans" should not be used to fund sanctuary cities. Never mind that these cities are generating a disproportionately large percentage of said tax dollars.
posted by mochapickle at 10:58 AM on February 1, 2017 [32 favorites]


Could you not memorize some of this crap? Its not like he is reciting Ulysses.

He ain't no C.J. Cregg, that's for sure. Or even a Josh Lyman.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:58 AM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


murphy slaw: republicans are convinced that the federal government is just a big pile of waste, pork, and boodoggles, because by god that's what they do to it every time they get their hands on the steering wheel

It's easy to see yourself in others, and assume that everyone acts and thinks like you. "Put yourself in someone else's shoes" is harder than it sounds. ("What do you mean, not all politicians use their position to maximize personal gains at any cost? That's what I did in business, why should this be any different?")
posted by filthy light thief at 10:59 AM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


Somebody should be cleaning my house today for the hard-working american taxpayers! [fake]
posted by sylvanshine at 10:59 AM on February 1, 2017


It was also just announced that Republican Senator Susan Collins will vote NO on De Vos.

I'm watching her on CSPAN now. Her no and the other one won't be enough. They'll need to flip one more and I don't think they'll do it.
posted by anastasiav at 10:59 AM on February 1, 2017


"the contributions of Frederick Douglas will come more and more. " succinct.
posted by ian1977 at 11:00 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Reporter asks what's up with Frederick Douglass being recognized "more and more." Spicer reiterates that Douglass will soon be recognized "more and more."
posted by zachlipton at 11:00 AM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


That would give the Republicans cover to remove it for everything, nominations and legislation. I think many of them would be seeking excuses, and this would give that to them.

Yes, and they'll see the next time it's used as an excuse too. Unless you're proposing that the Democrats should keep it in reserve to make sure that naming a post office won't go unchecked by the tyranny of the majority. Stop telling Democrats that they shouldn't give Republicans an excuse. That's what an abuser tells his victim.
posted by Etrigan at 11:00 AM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


It's easy to see yourself in others, and assume that everyone acts and thinks like you.

See also: why the Democrats think the Republicans don't ACTUALLY want the world to burn down so it can be replaced by fiefdoms ruled by braying tyrants
posted by a fiendish thingy at 11:00 AM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


Was there a blip?
posted by slipthought at 11:01 AM on February 1, 2017


Ha! Spicer has no idea who Douglass was. And that DJT appreciates his ongoing work? Did I hear that right?
posted by mochapickle at 11:01 AM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


ian1977: Doing everything they can to protect American citizens and institutions? good grief

Well, they are fond of using "alternative facts," so why not use alt. facts to define who is a Citizen (instead of a Terrorist) and what is an Institution (versus a Boondogle, Swamp, or Embarrassment)?
posted by filthy light thief at 11:01 AM on February 1, 2017



I can't watch this. Can someone please summarize what he is said about Iran and how this lays the groundwork? Please?
posted by Jalliah at 11:01 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


> but not enough to be seen as completely obstructionist

1. Being seen as completely obstructionist (by being completely obstructionist) did not harm Republicans.
2. By this same principle, Democrats not being seen as obstructionist will have no bearing on what Republicans decide to do about the filibuster. They wanted it for their own reasons, so they kept it. If they decide it no longer serves their interests, they will kill it. What Democrats do has nothing to do with that.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:01 AM on February 1, 2017 [32 favorites]


He is most definitely eliding any mention of Garland.
posted by rewil at 11:01 AM on February 1, 2017


"Chuck Schumer isn't innocent in this."
posted by mochapickle at 11:02 AM on February 1, 2017


You don't suspend Senate rules on a bill-by-bill basis.

Well, you don't NOW, but yesterday, you didn't hold a committee vote without a quorum either.


And really, if the entire past two weeks have had a message (for Trump's targets, collaborators, supporters, and fans), it's "We can do whatever the fuck we want, and no one can stop us."
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:02 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Spicer is directing our attention to the polls that prove that 57% of "likely voters" approve of the Muslim ban.

"I pledge to every citizen of our land that I will be president for all Americans, and this is so important to me." —Donald Trump
posted by ckape at 11:03 AM on February 1, 2017


Judging from my twitter feed, Iran is bad to our friends and allies and Obama failed to respond adequately, so they're "on notice". That was basically it AFAIK.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 11:03 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


2000 people came to an anti-Trump protest in The Hague. (article in Dutch, but there are a few photo's and a video). I’m pretty impressed that so many people showed up on a Wednesday, for a protest that was organized this weekend.
posted by blub at 11:03 AM on February 1, 2017 [19 favorites]


Word game: insert "white, hetero Christian" before any category discussed - "protect white, hetero Christian citizens and white, hetero Christian institutions."

Yeah, that sounds right for Pres. Bannon.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:03 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


[Music project.]
posted by sciatrix at 11:04 AM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


@ddale8
This is a full transcript of President Trump's speech to his Black History Month event. [transcript]

@ChelseaClinton
Chelsea Clinton Retweeted Daniel Dale
This is... this is...

@AmbassadorRice
Susan Rice Retweeted Chelsea Clinton
This defies comment


A BHM speech so good it left Chelsea Clinton and Susan Rice speechless.
posted by chris24 at 11:04 AM on February 1, 2017 [46 favorites]


It was over Iran's ballistic missile test, which Flynn says violates Security Council resolutions and Iran says was legal. Flynn was saber-rattling pretty strongly.
posted by zachlipton at 11:05 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Spicer said it was "easier to invite" the Harley Davidson execs to the White House, says they were not concerned about protestors or anything about Harley Davidson cancelling the meeting.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:06 AM on February 1, 2017



It was over Iran's ballistic missile test, which Flynn says violates Security Council resolutions and Iran says was legal. Flynn was saber-rattling pretty strongly.


Thanks
posted by Jalliah at 11:07 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Second "Skype seat," from Cleveland local news, calls him "Secretary Spicer." She's the only one more nervous than Spicer, which might be why they started this program.
posted by zachlipton at 11:08 AM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


So, protesting and fighting back against the coming storm where possible is obviously required.

But are there any movements in the works to create a sort of shadow-welfare system? Nonprofit community food insurance? Something where you pay a small amount to help distribute resources to the needy in your region when their access to state assistance goes away.

In England in the 1840s, when the welfare state consisted of “go die in a ditch and leave me alone, I’m busy snorting snuff and gold dust” (aka this administration’s policy), a lot of the working class banded together in collective relief groups that were self-administered and self-funded. You paid your “insurance” fees, and then if you were going hungry, or laid off, or injured, you would get funds back to help you get back on your feet.

Couldn’t we revive that model, and incorporate people who are more well-off and just want to put money in as a form of “I believe in the social fabric” payment?


This is how the Scandinavian welfare system is so different from those other places. Almost all the insurances and benefits have been built from the bottom up, and often across party lines and interests. Then in the different countries, the state has engaged in different ways, so today the systems are different - but the bottom-up history has ensured that there is a huge support of universal welfare, AFAIK more than 90 %. Even our far-right and most of the libertarians here support the system and the principles of the tax systems.
In Norway and Sweden the church has played a larger role than in Denmark and Iceland, which is behind some of the differences we see today, but all the churches were state churches, and they were early on used for distribution of state welfare - not in a good way. The combination of religious authority and moral wasn't always good. Because of that, I think most Scandinavians today would agree that while churches can be a necessary source of charity, they are not a good structure for welfare.
Because the histories of these welfare systems are histories of interwoven popular movements rather than government, they are very complex, but one of the elements is that alliances were built between the very rich landowners and industrialists and the workers, beginning from the last part of the 19th century, but specially during the 20's and 30's.
In descriptions of the Scandinavian welfare model, there is often a lot of focus on the homogeneity of our populations and our trust in institutions. But these elements were built, not god-given — in Denmark in 1848, a quarter of the population were German-speaking. There were large minority groups from all over Scandinavia, the oldest Jewish population in Europe, Huguenots, Russians, Romas. Most of the descendants of these people are still here - we are not all tall blond vikings, we're mashed up.
Similarly, our institutions didn't spring out of the Baltic without fault or fight. We have had several situations close to civil war, or maybe even what we today would call actual cold civil wars.
Sadly the values we hold are to put it mildly not indestructible. (I have a research proposal in my files for documenting and describing the cross-cultural and cross-interests history of this, and couldn't figure out why I was getting so much push-back from the colleague I was supposed to be working with. Turns out they are a radically conservative protestant, and while they support the welfare system they don't like the idea that Jews and farmers and workers worked together to build it. Now I'm doing another project and will go back to it later when I find more support).

Sorry for this long rant - it is my hobby horse, and also I really want to remind people that change can be achieved but that it takes a hell of a long time to make it stick.
posted by mumimor at 11:08 AM on February 1, 2017 [42 favorites]


Flynn says

This is your at-least-once-per-thread reminder that throughout his career, Flynn's subordinates have had code words for "Actual intel" and "Shit Flynn just made up out of thin fucking air".
posted by Etrigan at 11:08 AM on February 1, 2017 [71 favorites]


Are the questions from these Skype calls fed to them in exchange for being included? "Dear Mr. Spicer, sir, I'm ever so grateful for the opportunity, could you please talk at length about making (insert city of local cable affiliate here) great again?" [paraphrase....but only just}
posted by Dorinda at 11:09 AM on February 1, 2017


Spicer won't say whether Trump agrees with Bannon that Islam is a dark, violent religion.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:09 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]



This is your at-least-once-per-thread reminder that throughout his career, Flynn's subordinates have had code words for "Actual intel" and "Shit Flynn just made up out of thin fucking air".


Any idea what the code words were?
posted by drezdn at 11:10 AM on February 1, 2017


Are they really going to insist on having random local news anchors skyping in to White House press conferences to throw softballs during Q&A?

Oop, I just answered my own question.
posted by mochapickle at 11:11 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


is there a number at the Kremlin we can call to ask Putin to rein Trump in on the Iran stuff
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:11 AM on February 1, 2017 [19 favorites]


corb, as always, thanks for your perspective and report from the more conservative arena.

I hope that the Republicans don't blow up the filibuster over this judge. However, whenever the Dems try to filibuster (be it legislation or judges), there's just so much incentive for the Republicans to end it that it is still very difficult for me to imagine them not :-/. I guess time will tell.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:11 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


I know there is an argument that the US won't attack Iran because Iran is Russia's ally, but what off Putin is willing to sacrifice Iran to get the US involved in another war in can never truly "win?"
posted by drezdn at 11:11 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Sen. Murkowski speaking on the Senate floor now, she's also a no.

Won't be enough, though.
posted by anastasiav at 11:11 AM on February 1, 2017


Here's a copy of Flynn's statement "officially putting Iran on notice."
posted by zachlipton at 11:13 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


That would give the Republicans cover to remove it for everything, nominations and legislation. I think many of them would be seeking excuses, and this would give that to them.

They will do it anyway, whether or not there are actual excuses or as a preemptive maneuver. This morning shows that when Democrats try to pull off something like not show up to a committee vote, Republicans will simply ignore or vote out the rule. I wouldn't be surprised if Senators started showing up to meetings bringing walking sticks soon.
posted by FJT at 11:16 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


It was over Iran's ballistic missile test, which Flynn says violates Security Council resolutions and Iran says was legal. Flynn was saber-rattling pretty strongly.

Remember when the justification for invading Iraq was that the UN's rulings needed to be enforced but also the UN can go fuck themselves for not invading?
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:17 AM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


This is your at-least-once-per-thread reminder that throughout his career, Flynn's subordinates have had code words for "Actual intel" and "Shit Flynn just made up out of thin fucking air".

Any idea what the code words were?


"Flynn facts" is the famous one, but I might know people who know people who say that "How many reps did you do last night?" was the start of many such conversations.
posted by Etrigan at 11:17 AM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Spicer refers to "the Ukraine." Ugh.
posted by mochapickle at 11:18 AM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


Spicer keep talking about visa-holders having to go back through the application process, but the application process has been suspended and all visa appointments cancelled for everyone from the listed countries.
posted by zachlipton at 11:18 AM on February 1, 2017


They will do it anyway, whether or not there are actual excuses or as a preemptive maneuver. This morning shows that when Democrats try to pull off something like not show up to a committee vote, Republicans will simply ignore or vote out the rule.

Yes, this. Democrats need to fight and make the Republicans shove them to the sidelines, not sit on the sidelines themselves.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:18 AM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


Lars Larson....from the Lars Larson show. Wants to know if Trump is going to return the peoples land to the people. Also lets start harvesting wood. ugggg
posted by ian1977 at 11:19 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


WHO IS THIS GUY WHO WANTS TO CUT DOWN FORESTS
posted by saysthis at 11:19 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


FM 101's Lars Larson via Skype: "Does President Trump want to return the people's land to the people?"
posted by mochapickle at 11:20 AM on February 1, 2017


Did Lars Larson really just call him "Commander Spicer"?
posted by christopherious at 11:20 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Lars Larson....from the Lars Larson show. Wants to know if Trump is going to return the peoples land to the people. Also lets start harvesting wood. ugggg

Did he call him "Commander Spicer"?
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:20 AM on February 1, 2017


Christ, what an asshole.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 11:20 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


For those reading the recap, Lars Larson has a "radio voice" and he's super grinny and smarmy.
posted by mochapickle at 11:21 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


I think I can speak for Lars' everywhere when I say #notalllars' want to cut down all the trees.
posted by notyou at 11:21 AM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


He did! He did call him Commander Spicer!

The whole thing was super gross.
posted by mochapickle at 11:21 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Republicans have a couple of different incentives to keep the filibuster. If they get rid of it, then they're on the hook for whatever Trump does. The majority of them can't vote against a Trump proposal, even if they wanted, because of their fear of primaries and losing donors. With a filibuster in place, assuming 41 Democrats have a spine, a lot of the badness can be rejected and the Senate Republicans get to avoid ownership while telling their most evil supporters "we can't pass the Muslim Deportation Act because the Democrats won't allow a fair vote. Please don't primary me."

And then there's the reason why the Democrats never got rid of it. Eventually Republicans will be the minority party again.

This is all why I'd like the Democrats to test their bluff. The Republicans have a lot to lose if they get rid of it.
posted by honestcoyote at 11:22 AM on February 1, 2017 [17 favorites]


FM 101's Lars Larson via Skype: "Does President Trump want to return the people's land to the people?"

aren't you on Multnomah land motherfucker
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:22 AM on February 1, 2017 [29 favorites]


Times today that Spicer has called Gorsuch "unbelievably qualified": 4
posted by mochapickle at 11:23 AM on February 1, 2017


Relatively dull news, in the best way possible, from yesterday (1/31/2017): Senate easily confirms Trump’s Transportation pick, Elaine Chao, who has been involved with Federal organizations in prior administrations, and was confirmed four times previously without any dissenting votes, until yesterday. Still, it was a a 93-6 vote, and The Hill has more:
Now that she’s confirmed, Chao hopes to establish an infrastructure "task force" to start exploring the best ways to upgrade the nation’s ailing transportation system. During her confirmation hearing, Chao expressed support for including some direct federal funding, streamlining regulations and upholding so-called “Buy America” rules in any infrastructure bill.

She also plans to enforce safety regulations, spur innovation on drones and self-driving cars and ensure equal access to transportation in both rural and urban areas.

However, Chao has generally remained light on details about many of her policy ideas. She punted on whether she agrees with a contentious proposal to separate air traffic control from the federal government, a debate that will soon resurface in Congress as lawmakers prepare to reauthorize the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).
This is the most positive news I've heard about/from a cabinet pick so far. Of course, all this hinges on what her crazy boss does and says, but at least she's a relatively level-headed individual who knows what she's getting into with her new job.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:23 AM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


Wants to know if Trump is going to return the peoples land to the people.

'Bout time someone was looking out for the Native Americans.
posted by rough ashlar at 11:24 AM on February 1, 2017 [26 favorites]


DeVos is also "unbelievably qualified." This phrase might have to go on the bingo card.
posted by mochapickle at 11:24 AM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


I am 20+ comments and 30 minutes behind but if anyone was wondering what that distant boom was, it was my head exploding at that effing question about "Returning the federal lands to the people" and "Logging the forests to create jobs instead of fighting forest fires".

OMG OMG OMG. What the actual Fuck?!?!?!? :::::degrades into incoherent rambling and rocks in corner:::::
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 11:25 AM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


Sean Says
Have you seen his tweets today
I'm just gonna repeat them

posted by snuffleupagus at 11:25 AM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Tom Scocca, Deadspin: Neil Gorsuch Won't Fill The Vacancy On The Supreme Court
So Neil Gorsuch cannot take Merrick Garland’s place. He can take a lesser seat, on a lesser Supreme Court, as the illegitimate final agent of an illegitimate process. If he deserves to be on the Court, he deserves to be on the court by a 52-48 party-line vote, held over the ruins of the filibuster. Every decision he signs will come with an “(R)“ next to his name. That’s the job he chose, and that’s the job he’ll get.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:27 AM on February 1, 2017 [46 favorites]


Spicer called DeVos an educator. Has she ever so much as educated someone on the location of the nearest restroom let alone taught students?
posted by zachlipton at 11:27 AM on February 1, 2017 [16 favorites]


Merrick Garland is also unbelievably qualified.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:27 AM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


Senate easily confirms Trump’s Transportation pick, Elaine Chao,

oh good more highways everywhere, that will make things easier for the war rigs to get to gas town

oh what a day, what a lovely day
posted by entropicamericana at 11:28 AM on February 1, 2017 [18 favorites]


Jeff Jobe of Jeff Jobe Publishing.
posted by ian1977 at 11:28 AM on February 1, 2017


I'd say Merrick Garland is believably qualified.
posted by ian1977 at 11:28 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Oh good, more coal burnin' too!
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 11:29 AM on February 1, 2017


Skype plan Jeff Jobe, who begins with how DJT carries the hopes of Appalachia: How soon and when will the limits on coal mining be lifted?
posted by mochapickle at 11:29 AM on February 1, 2017


These Skype seats are complete jokes.
posted by saysthis at 11:29 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Spicer called DeVos an educator. Has she ever so much as educated someone on the location of the nearest restroom let alone taught students?

She's taught Susan Collins where her limit on evens is.
posted by Etrigan at 11:29 AM on February 1, 2017 [15 favorites]


Garland, now would be a good time to absorb the power of the Four Fiends and come back as Chaos

your country needs you to knock all these assholes down
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:29 AM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


Those skype questions are like when you have a work meeting and some bootlicker asks the manager questions that everyone already knows the answer to just to butter up the boss.
posted by ian1977 at 11:30 AM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


If he weren't a mouthpiece for the dismantling of our cherish democratic institutions, I'd feel bad that Sean Spicer is having to field nonsense questions from loons over Skype.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:30 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Here's a copy of Flynn's statement "officially putting Iran on notice."

We're not even going to have some kind of stupid WMD pretext, this time, are we. Just "those Iranians are getting uppity, better kill 'em all and take the oil".
posted by dis_integration at 11:30 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


So if you want to skype in, you just need an alliterative name and an epynomous news outlet?
posted by paper chromatographologist at 11:31 AM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


C'mon, Sean, put down the adverbs. Just back away... step by step.
posted by slipthought at 11:31 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Do these people realize that limits on coal and timber keep the prices from falling dramatically?
posted by drezdn at 11:31 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Merrick Garland is also unbelievably qualified.

As confirmed by no less than Gorsuch.
In a 2002 article reflecting on Justice White’s death, Mr. Gorsuch criticized the Senate’s handling of judicial confirmations. “Some of the most impressive judicial nominees are grossly mistreated,” he said, mentioning two candidates for the federal appeals court in Washington who he said were “widely considered to be among the finest lawyers of their generation.”

One was John G. Roberts Jr., who went on to become chief justice of the United States. The other was Judge Merrick B. Garland, who was confirmed to the appeals court in 1997 after a long delay, but whose nomination to Justice Scalia’s seat last year was blocked by Senate Republicans.
posted by chris24 at 11:31 AM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


What that Flynn question was about: Democrats ask Pentagon to explain Russian payment to Flynn
posted by zachlipton at 11:32 AM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


and willing to kiss the best ass.
posted by INFJ at 11:32 AM on February 1, 2017


I'm seeing reports that Murkowski is also a no on DeVos. Does that mean we need one more Republican?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:32 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


tonycpsu: He can take a lesser seat, on a lesser Supreme Court, as the illegitimate final agent of an illegitimate process.... Every decision he signs will come with an “(R)“ next to his name. That’s the job he chose, and that’s the job he’ll get

There's no "Greater" and "lesser" supreme court. Do you know what they call the justice who just got enough enough votes for his or her seat? A member of the supreme court. And your name doesn't matter, nor does the imaginary (R) you'll put next to his name, because his decisions count as much as someone with an imaginary (D).

At least we didn't get that "wacky" Judge Thomas Hardiman. "If you get him going, said one colleague, you'll find out he thinks climate change is a hoax." Oh, NPR, that was a hoot! (I get it, you're trying to say that calling climate change a hoax is so laughable it's wacky, except that man could have been part of shaping environmental laws. And I get it - you can't be outraged 100% of the time at shit pumped out by the _rump administration, but that wasn't even gallows humor - it was normalizing humor.)
posted by filthy light thief at 11:32 AM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Can Metafilter have a Skype seat?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:32 AM on February 1, 2017 [41 favorites]


Did Lars Larson really just call him "Commander Spicer"?

No, sorry Lars, the Mass Effect fan forum is in Hall C.

This is my favorite thread in the Citadel
posted by Servo5678 at 11:34 AM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


LEAKED: The White House’s Black History Month Program of Events [fake, courtesy of Full Frontal with Samantha Bee]
posted by gladly at 11:34 AM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


If you're in PA, call Toomey's office now about DeVos.
posted by zachlipton at 11:34 AM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


Does that mean we need one more Republican?

But do we have confirmation that all Democrats are voting against?
posted by C'est la D.C. at 11:35 AM on February 1, 2017


It was also just announced that Republican Senator Susan Collins will vote NO on De Vos.

I'm watching her on CSPAN now. Her no and the other one won't be enough. They'll need to flip one more and I don't think they'll do it.


As a Mainer I'm pretty pissed at her since she could have just stopped it in committee and now she's trying to get all the points for being a "moderate" Republican. She knows the vote will still go through so her party hopefully won't come after her and she can smooth the waters.
posted by mayonnaises at 11:36 AM on February 1, 2017 [22 favorites]


Can Metafilter have a Skype seat?

Sorry, no hippies.
posted by Coventry at 11:39 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


If you're in Nevada, call Heller's office on DeVos. In a state Clinton won, up for reelection in 2018.

(202) 224-6244
posted by chris24 at 11:40 AM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]




CNN: Whither Melania Trump?: On January 21, she went to the post-inauguration multi-faith prayer service at Washington's National Cathedral -- her last public appearance. The next day, which coincided with the couple's 12th wedding anniversary, Melania Trump returned to New York City, Barron in tow. She has not been back to DC since.

Despite this, a spokeswoman for the first lady knocked down recent reports that the Melania Trump would not be moving to Washington at all.

"That report is not true," the spokeswoman said.

posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:41 AM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Eventually Republicans will be the minority party again.

Sure, but probably in the U.S. colonial franchise of the NPC, and I don't think they do filibusters anyhow.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:42 AM on February 1, 2017


I have to say again how much I appreciate everyone here and these threads. I seriously do not know how I would be getting through this otherwise.

Thank you to everyone for finding and sharing all the horrifying and infuriating news coming from every direction so we can all stay informed, information on how to fight and also for the hilarious tweets, memes, pictures to give a brief moment of respite from the angst.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 11:42 AM on February 1, 2017 [29 favorites]


This is real reassuring if you are queer and used to being targeted for harassment by those same churches. My grim gut response here is "wonderful, now those churches will have a tighter hold on more people, which means more foot soldiers against me." Look at the Salvation Army; Church charity isn't a luxury all of us can fall on.

This is an important point. We've seen how this works with the "health care sharing ministries." Besides the fact that they aren't health insurance (they can run out of money and not pay your bill, an they often start off by telling you to negotiate charity care rates with your doctor), they usually have morality rules: no coverage if you get sick doing something not church-approved. And I've seen them require that you attend church regularly and have sign-off from your pastor to be covered.

Private charity is great, but it's not a substitute for government. Government is (supposed to be) universal. It's there for you even if you are, for whatever reason, discriminated against by society or by whatever group are providing the charity in your area (especially likely if you're in a rural area). Food stamps aren't supposed to throw you out if you're not religious or the wrong religion or someone decides your "lifestyle" is unworthy of basic necessities like food. Taking away government social services, even if private charities do somehow massively increase what they offer, will inevitably cause discrimination.

Government is messy because it has to take all comers, even when it would be cheaper and easier to ignore people without computers or people who live in remote areas or people with disabilities. This is why the whole "why can't the government run more like a tech company" argument always falls apart in the end: a tech company can decide it doesn't want you just because your web browser is too old; government has to find another way. But if we outsource the responsibility of taking care of each other entirely to charity, some people will be actively discriminated against and others will slip through the cracks, and as with everything else in this world, those people are going to be the ones who needed the help most of all.
posted by zachlipton at 11:45 AM on February 1, 2017 [43 favorites]


But do we have confirmation that all Democrats are voting against?
People seem to be working with that assumption. I cannot even begin to imagine the shit avalanche that would rain down on any Democrat who voted for her.

Literally every American needs to call their senator tonight and tell them that a vote for DeVos is a vote against public education, and support for public education is a fundamental, non-partisan, non-negotiable American value. We can win this one.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:45 AM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


*pant pant* trying to catch up after a mental health day yesterday.

So I was thinking, screw 1984, y'all. We need to double down on The Art of War. I like the idea of calling THEM elites. Or Resistors. Or Whatever else they sling at us.

I don't have my copy yet, so feel free to share helpful tidbits here.
posted by yoga at 11:46 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Email Shows Trump Team Initiated Effort To Replace All Inspector Generals

Democrats on the House Oversight Committee sent a letter to the White House on Tuesday noting the reports about the transition team's initial approach to the inspectors general and asking for more information.

"If these reports are accurate, the actions by Trump Administration officials demonstrate a troubling pattern of misguided and politically-motivated attacks on government watchdogs, ethics officials, and career government employees," Democrats wrote in the letter.

posted by futz at 11:47 AM on February 1, 2017 [30 favorites]


At least she's a relatively level-headed individual who knows what she's getting into with her new job.
Yes, she is all those things, but from the Administration's point of view, the most important thing is that she is Mrs. Mitch McConnell so they have a hold over him.
(Sigh) Remember the good old days, when a Cabinet member being unlawfully able to take the job or being a case of blatant nepotism would have raised red flags? Now, those two are the only sane ones in the whole bunch.
posted by dannyboybell at 11:48 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


"Does President Trump want to return the people's land to the people?"

Okay, I don't speak conservative. Is this about national parks? Because my initial reading is about not treading on Native lands for things like DAPL or not taking people's land for the #fuckingwall, but that can't be right.
posted by dinty_moore at 11:49 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


"Charity should be abolished and be replaced by justice."
--Bethune
posted by monospace at 11:51 AM on February 1, 2017 [15 favorites]


Reverse engineer the Tea Party.

I've compiled a list of apt quotes from Founding Fathers and Republican presidents from which I am going to choose from on my next march. Let them wrap their brains around that. If anyone wants to host it, let me know and I will MeMail you.
posted by entropicamericana at 11:52 AM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


Okay, I don't speak conservative. Is this about national parks? Because my initial reading is about not treading on Native lands for things like DAPL or not taking people's land for the #fuckingwall, but that can't be right.

Far and Away 2: Back to the Bird Refuge
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:52 AM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


It's impossible to get through to Toomey as far as I can tell, either busy, full voicemail, or dead air once the line connects. So I sent another fax as well as a message on twitter.
posted by miratime at 11:53 AM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Email Shows Trump Team Initiated Effort To Replace All Inspector Generals

Ahem. Inspectors general.
posted by dis_integration at 11:53 AM on February 1, 2017 [24 favorites]




But do we have confirmation that all Democrats are voting against?

At the Chicago rally last night, the organizers said Durbin had not yet committed to a No on DeVos. I just tried to call his offices a bit ago, but got voicemail.
posted by gueneverey at 11:55 AM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Email Shows Trump Team Initiated Effort To Replace All Inspector Generals

Ahem. Inspectors general.


If someone hadn't told him that, he would have let them stick around.
posted by Etrigan at 11:55 AM on February 1, 2017




My poster project continues apace. I have about 30 ready to mail out on Friday. This morning I started the process of making four wooden posters of the same design to sell in my shop and hopefully fund sending out more paper ones to anyone who wants'em.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:56 AM on February 1, 2017 [23 favorites]


but what off Putin is willing to sacrifice Iran to get the US involved in another war in can never truly "win?"

Well, crap. There's my moment of optimism gone.

I think it's unlikely, but it's certainly a plausible scenario. I used to think Putin was just aiming for territorial depth and security, but it's increasingly obvious that he's playing a full-throated Millennial version of the Great Game.
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:01 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Tillerson confirmed 56-43
posted by XMLicious at 12:01 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Warner, Heitkamp, Manchin, King (I) voted for Tillerson.
posted by Etrigan at 12:03 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


So is there any way we can like...fling the Skype propaganda back in their faces? Somebody's gotta get on there and ask something cutting, or do some kind of performance art.
posted by saysthis at 12:03 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Okay, I don't speak conservative. Is this about national parks?

Partly Parks. Mainly about the BLM in the west. This is the Cliven Bundy Ranch question. They want all the federal land to themselves for free. Also backed heavily by Koch money for similar reasons.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:04 PM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


Okay, I don't speak conservative. Is this about national parks? Because my initial reading is about not treading on Native lands for things like DAPL or not taking people's land for the #fuckingwall, but that can't be right.

No, this is about taking all the national forests, Bureau of Land Management land, wildlife refuges, national parks, national conservation areas, etc -- and "giving them to the states" so that they can be sold off to private landowners and all their resources extracted.

It absolutely has nothing to do with First Nations.
posted by suelac at 12:04 PM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


who among us will be the brave one to be SOY BOMB in trump's skype seats
posted by beefetish at 12:04 PM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


They think the tragedy of the commons is that they aren't getting more of it.
posted by Etrigan at 12:05 PM on February 1, 2017 [31 favorites]


My poster project continues apace.

Ooh, robocop is bleeding, those are awesome! Please let us know when you are ready to start shipping off more paper ones; I'd love to buy a print!
posted by aka burlap at 12:07 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Dem offers bill to remove Bannon from National Security Council
Rep. Stephanie Murphy’s (D-Fla.) bill would ensure that no person whose “primary or predominant responsibility is political in nature” could be designated as a member of the Security Council or be allowed to regularly attend its meetings.
posted by Coventry at 12:11 PM on February 1, 2017 [78 favorites]


The American people are getting what a minority of them voted for and they're getting it long and hard.
posted by azpenguin at 12:11 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Yesterday during my lunch break I went to the Senate to stand in the line (organized by the ACLU) outside the Sessions committee hearing basically to show that people are watching and put pressure on everyone to vote no. I popped up to the fourth floor as well where the DeVos line was and, without thinking, I said "Heya, is this the anti-DeVos line?" and the woman at the end of the line sort of smirked/chuckled and said something like "The anti-DeVos line? We aren't all anti-DeVos you know" and then later I heard her describe me as "cheeky" to her companion but I wasn't trying to be cheeky, I just didn't realize that anyone could in good faith actually support Betsy fucking DeVos. It baffles me.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 12:11 PM on February 1, 2017 [43 favorites]




Sen. Warner says his office is getting a lot more calls on DeVos and travel ban than SCOTUS nominee

Warner is on very thin ice with me. One more vote the wrong way is all he's got after Tillerson.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:12 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Seconding being livid at Warner. I don't live in VA anymore, but my rage shall be felt through my family who is still there.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 12:15 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]




Faxzero reported that my fax to Toomey was successful. I even refrained from telling him what I really think, just limited it to 'I am your constituent from PA, and I do not support ( )'.
posted by Dashy at 12:18 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Not alarming at all: WASHINGTON (AP) - President Trump has left the White House on Marine One on an unannounced trip, White House has not disclosed destination
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:19 PM on February 1, 2017 [18 favorites]


What's the over/under on war starting with Iran? I say October.
posted by azpenguin at 12:20 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]




It was also just announced that Republican Senator Susan Collins will vote NO on De Vos.

Big deal. She voted yes on him when it counted, to get her out of committee. A meaningless no on a floor vote that's a foregone conclusion is only to burnish her supposed "moderate" credentials. But when it matters, she votes in lockstep with every other Republican.
posted by Gelatin at 12:20 PM on February 1, 2017 [16 favorites]


He's probably just going somewhere to play golf.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:20 PM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


My poster project continues apace. I have about 30 ready to mail out on Friday. This morning I started the process of making four wooden posters of the same design to sell in my shop and hopefully fund sending out more paper ones to anyone who wants'em.

Thank you for this Robocop! Is it OK to print these and share?
posted by photoslob at 12:22 PM on February 1, 2017


Is Trump:

a. Going to find the bobcat
b. Headed to KFC
c. Looking down on black people from above to celebrate Black History Month
d. Firing someone by throwing them off his helicopter
e. Bored with the job
posted by zachlipton at 12:23 PM on February 1, 2017 [23 favorites]


But do we have confirmation that all Democrats are voting against?

At the Chicago rally last night, the organizers said Durbin had not yet committed to a No on DeVos. I just tried to call his offices a bit ago, but got voicemail.
posted by gueneverey at 11:55 AM on February 1 [+] [!]
AND
Sen. Warner says his office is getting a lot more calls on DeVos and travel ban than SCOTUS nominee

Warner is on very thin ice with me. One more vote the wrong way is all he's got after Tillerson.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:12 PM on February 1 [+] [!]


I was at the Chicago Rally PROTEST ACTUALLY last night and I was shocked that Durbin had not come out as a loud NO against Devos. I have been faxing, tweeting and e-mailing his office since last night and asking all of my friends to do the same. As per Senator Warner - WTF? Are the Democrats in Washington so out of touch with the reality of this situation that they don't know that most of us don't want ANY of Trumps picks - especially the most vile of them? Are they so out of touch with reality that any of Trumps picks look good to them????

Thank you all for being here - so much simpler than trying to read everything from various sources....
posted by W Grant at 12:25 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


He's probably gone to look at the nukes.
posted by Artw at 12:25 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


He's searching for Frederick Douglass, to thank him for his ongoing contributions and offer him a cabinet position!
posted by mochapickle at 12:27 PM on February 1, 2017 [46 favorites]


> He's probably gone to look at the nukes.

To fondle, surely.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:28 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


CNN said at 1:47pm: Donald Trump is meeting with Apprentice creator Mark Burnett today, sources tell CNN. Burnett is in town for the National Prayer Breakfast.

Maybe they are off to play Survivor together or something.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:29 PM on February 1, 2017


Oh great. Man who claimed mom died in Iraq after Trump's ban lied, Imam confirms. She apparently died five day before the Executive Order.

This shit is bad enough without people making up more sympathetic stories to be outraged over.
posted by zachlipton at 12:29 PM on February 1, 2017 [31 favorites]


$1 says it's a photo op with the SEAL's widow. $5 says he fucks it up.
posted by Etrigan at 12:29 PM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


What's the over/under on war starting with Iran? I say October.

What's the upside to warring with them? For anyone?
posted by Coventry at 12:30 PM on February 1, 2017


This is not ok. This is not ok. None of this is at all ok. Oh god, the panic.
posted by Dashy at 12:30 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


What's the over/under on war starting with Iran? I say October.

What's the upside to warring with them? For anyone?


Same as the upside was to a war with Iraq in 2003, if you're psychotic.
posted by Etrigan at 12:31 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


All Visas other than govt/diplomatic officials from designated countries have been revoked (via immigration attorney Matt Cameron)

Well heck, do the exemptions include non-citizen service members? Anyone got link to the full text yet?
posted by Enturbulated at 12:31 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


CNN said at 1:47pm: Donald Trump is meeting with Apprentice creator Mark Burnett today, sources tell CNN. Burnett is in town for the National Prayer Breakfast.

Gotta make sure those tapes don't get out.
posted by dis_integration at 12:31 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


Coventry: What's the upside to warring with them? For anyone?
Wars are how you convert human lives into money.
posted by ragtag at 12:34 PM on February 1, 2017 [33 favorites]


Matt Cameron on Twitter: Just learning that ALL VISAS other than govt/diplomatic officials from designated countries have been revoked. All of them. #muslimban

"Hearing it is likely more countries--including non-Muslim-majority nations--to be added to list soon. This is not a drill."

Someone please tell me this is a lie.
posted by saysthis at 12:34 PM on February 1, 2017 [10 favorites]


Trump just got on Marine One and flew off to a destination that the White House has declared off the record.

...and then we never saw him again.
posted by ian1977 at 12:34 PM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


Guys I posted the Forward Together Moral Movement event coming up in Raleigh Feb 11 if anyone is interested. Looks like they have about 4k rsvp'd but that is from the NAACPNC website only so it's probably more.
posted by yoga at 12:34 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


What's the over/under on war starting with Iran? I say October.

What's the upside to warring with them? For anyone?


Lot's of oil. Lots of contracts for Erik Prince. Lots of contracts for Trump's construction company buddies. Lamentations of women. The taste of blood. World historical significance. That thrilling feeling of being a conqueror.
posted by dis_integration at 12:34 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


Same as the upside was to a war with Iraq in 2003, if you're psychotic.

Trump was very critical of the Iraq war, though. Has he indicated that he thinks he could do a better job of it?
posted by Coventry at 12:36 PM on February 1, 2017


giant asteroid, giant asteroid why hath thou foresaken me?
posted by entropicamericana at 12:37 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


Trump was very critical of the Iraq war, though.

Oh, you still think Trump's calling the shots?
posted by Etrigan at 12:38 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump was very critical of the Iraq war, though. Has he indicated that he thinks he could do a better job of it?

“But if you think about it, Mike, if we kept the oil, you probably wouldn’t have ISIS because that’s where they made their money in the first place, so we should have kept the oil. But, okay, maybe we’ll have another chance.” - January 22, 2017
posted by Copronymus at 12:38 PM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


Someone please tell me this is a lie.

more tweets from that thread:
Not trying to scare anyone. Those *now* present in US remain in valid status. Just don't leave.
If you need an extension or have filed a new visa petition, get a lawyer and/or contact your federal rep for help ASAP.
posted by INFJ at 12:38 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


He thinks he could do a better job of everything.
posted by something something at 12:38 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Everybody that surrounds him is aching to get in a shooting war. Even Mattis can't wait to get his war on with Iran.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:38 PM on February 1, 2017


Trump has landed at Dover AFB for the arrival of the remains of the SEAL killed in Yemen.
posted by zachlipton at 12:38 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Same as the upside was to a war with Iraq in 2003, if you're psychotic.

Trump was very critical of the Iraq war, though. Has he indicated that he thinks he could do a better job of it?


Trump on the Iraq War: We Should've kept the oil.

Also is there anything that Trump doesn't think he can do a better job of? It's called hubris.
posted by dis_integration at 12:39 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


He probably thinks we could just load up a plane with 'the oil' on our way our the door.
posted by ian1977 at 12:39 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


Nice call Etrigan.
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:39 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


HuffPo reporter says POTUS is heading to Dover Air Force Base to receive soldiers body

Of course, he does it as an "undisclosed location" so we all talk about it. I've heard some people say he's great at marketing and production, but he's really not. He's just shameless about it.

I have to do a lot of trickery to post in these election threads. The text field just crawls
posted by Brainy at 12:40 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


roomthreeseventeen: "All Visas other than govt/diplomatic officials from designated countries have been revoked"

I don't know if it's just my Twitter & media consumption patterns, but I don't think I've seen anyone make the following point: visa holders are legal immigrants (and visitors). All that talk about illegal immigration and refugee asylgum seekers are inapplicable when it comes to visa holders (and doubly so for permanent residents -- green card holders). And, also maybe it's just me, but I don't think I've ever encountered someone in real life who was strongly against illegal immigration who wasn't also pretty suspicious of legal immigration... especially from one of those countries. I mean, I'm sure they exist, I don't think they're Sasquatches or Loch Ness Monsters or whatever. But, like pro-lifers who are also pro-contraception and pro-sex ed, I suspect that those who are strongly anti-illegal immigration but also pro-legal immigration are either too few in number or too weak in political power to make a difference in the larger sphere.
posted by mhum at 12:40 PM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


Trump has landed at Dover AFB for the arrival of the remains of the SEAL killed in Yemen.

Why was that secret? Because Spicer doxxed a Navy SEAL's wife 2 hours ago?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:40 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


A full transcript of President Trump's speech to his Black History Month event.

Oh

Oh my

Oh my fucking GOD

You guys, I'm going to go grab a bottle of Lagavulin and an IV line. Keep changing the bottle every few days, will you?
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 12:42 PM on February 1, 2017 [45 favorites]


Can you imagine having that filthy SOB trying to comfort you in your darkest hour. Fuck.
posted by ian1977 at 12:42 PM on February 1, 2017 [69 favorites]


Mr. Bad, I salute your choice of scotch. I have considered emptying my meager retirement account and stocking up on Lagavulin in these trying times.
posted by Fleebnork at 12:45 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]




"All Visas other than govt/diplomatic officials from designated countries have been revoked"

do we have any non-tweet source for this?
posted by murphy slaw at 12:45 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


do we have any non-tweet source for this?

Boston Globe: With visas revoked, travelers barred entry despite court order
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:47 PM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


d. Firing someone by throwing them off his helicopter

Don't give him any ideas. A totally unprovable but quasi-plausible bit of family lore suggests this is how a distant relative of mine was...fired.

Technically he quit before they fired him
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 12:47 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Ivanka went to Dover too
posted by zachlipton at 12:47 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


From the BHM speech: "Omarosa's actually a very nice person. Nobody knows that. I don't want to destroy her reputation."

Hilarious.
posted by Coventry at 12:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Iran is bigger than Iraq and Afghanistan combined - and it's population is more than double that of Iraq. It also has a functioning government , two different military systems and allies across the Middle East. Even if Flynn and Trump and Bannon all agree it would be a good idea to invade Iran and take the oil, would the US armed forces just go ahead?
I can't imagine one single country that would support the US in this*, and I can imagine Russia finding it all hilarious and aiding Iran more or less openly. After all, Russia's intent when they aided Trump's election was to undermine the US and the entire West, not to help Trump because Putin thinks he is swell.

*Obviously, Saudi Arabia would love the idea, but they don't fight for anything.
posted by mumimor at 12:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


The Germans offer some comic relief.
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


What's the over/under on war starting with Iran? I say October.

What's the upside to warring with them? For anyone?
posted by Coventry at 3:30 PM on February 1 [+] [!]


The thing is that most of us have a very narrow set of what we'd consider good outcomes in this situation; there are so few ways things can turn out that we would consider "acceptable". Steve Bannon wants to blow up everything so there are a great many possible "acceptable" outcomes to him; genocide, race war, war in Iraq, whatever. If you actually want to destroy the country or world because you think it'd be, I don't know, neat and fun or whatever, then you see upsides where other people don't.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 12:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


d. Firing someone by throwing them off his helicopter

Nixon proposed doing this with the spy the Joint Chiefs planted in the White House.
posted by Coventry at 12:49 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Breitbart still hasn’t launched in France, and an activist has bought its URLs

-- The student, who asked to be identified only as Antonin, bought the domain name breitbart.fr following the US election, along with two other related domains: breitbartnews.fr and breitbartnewsnetwork.fr. In an interview at a cafe outside Paris on Saturday, Antonin said he bought the domains in a bid to limit Breitbart’s influence over the French presidential elections, which begin in April.

-- Some Breitbart-related German domains are already taken, as well. Breitbart.de is owned by a German web hosting company, and its owner says that no one has approached him about buying the domain. The URL breitbartnews.de redirects to a Facebook page for Hooligans Gegen Satzbau — a German anti-extremist group that ironically corrects the grammar and syntax of far-right groups.

posted by futz at 12:49 PM on February 1, 2017 [31 favorites]


So just to be clear, they just REVOKED a bunch of student visas, spousal visas, etc., for everyone who wasn't in the borders already.

And tweets are saying other countries like Afghanistan are getting the same, and I quoted another tweet above saying "other countries to be added soon".

REVOKED.
posted by saysthis at 12:50 PM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


52% disapproval 10 days in. Approval-disapproval: -9%

He's still having the most unpopular early days of any president in polling history and he isn't getting any better-liked. Don't forget: nasty and fascist as the regime is, they still do not have mass popular support and haven't yet displayed the requisite competence to achieve it.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:53 PM on February 1, 2017 [23 favorites]


The revoked visa stuff seems to be coming from Greg Siskand on my feed, could be inaccurate, but he's been pretty on point with breaking stuff so far.

I'll shut up until something more substantial comes out.
posted by saysthis at 12:54 PM on February 1, 2017


They arrested Cornell Brooks, head of the NAACP, at Jeff Sessions' office last night.

(Sorry, no link, I'm at work.)
posted by suelac at 12:54 PM on February 1, 2017


ian1977: Can you imagine having that filthy SOB trying to comfort you in your darkest hour. Fuck.

How soon _rump gets his own Cindy Sheehan?
posted by filthy light thief at 12:55 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


They arrested Cornell Brooks, head of the NAACP, at Jeff Sessions' office last night.

(Sorry, no link, I'm at work.)
posted by suelac at 4:54 AM on February 2 [+] [!]


Here.
posted by saysthis at 12:59 PM on February 1, 2017


He's still having the most unpopular early days of any president in polling history and he isn't getting any better-liked. Don't forget: nasty and fascist as the regime is, they still do not have mass popular support and haven't yet displayed the requisite competence to achieve it.


my inner pessimist (that is, me) wonders if that even matters when they control two branches of government and are a confirmation hearing away from controlling the third.

unless republican senators decide that the peril to the nation is more important than ramming through their wet-dream agenda, there will be no reckoning before 2018, if then.

i only hope that popular resistance can act as more than just a speedbump.
posted by murphy slaw at 12:59 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]




This has already been pointed out above, but: If one more Republican senator abandons Betsy DeVos, her nomination will likely fail

posted by piyushnz at 12:59 PM on February 1, 2017 [10 favorites]




Hawaii GOP [State] Lawmaker May Switch Parties: Rep. Beth Fukumoto, the Hawaii House of Representatives minority leader, says she is being punished “for dissent.”
In the last couple years, I’ve watched leaders in the Republican Party become less and less tolerant of diverse opinions and dissenting voices. I am under constant scrutiny for working across the aisle to pass common sense legislation that will benefit my district and the people of Hawaii.

Today, I’m facing demands for my resignation from leadership and possible censure because I raised concerns about our President’s treatment of women and minorities. I’ve been asked by both my party and my caucus to commit to not criticizing the President for the remainder of his term and to take a more partisan approach to working in the Legislature.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:01 PM on February 1, 2017 [109 favorites]


DO IT BETH
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:02 PM on February 1, 2017 [38 favorites]


Rust Moranis: He's still having the most unpopular early days of any president in polling history and he isn't getting any better-liked. Don't forget: nasty and fascist as the regime is, they still do not have mass popular support and haven't yet displayed the requisite competence to achieve it.

I don't think they want popular support, they want a country divided. There is some minor efforts to raise the fear, but I'd say they're still on the "Shock Event" tactics:
What Bannon is doing, most dramatically with last night's ban on immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries-- is creating what is known as a "shock event." Such an event is unexpected and confusing and throws a society into chaos. People scramble to react to the event, usually along some fault line that those responsible for the event can widen by claiming that they alone know how to restore order. When opponents speak out, the authors of the shock event call them enemies. As society reels and tempers run high, those responsible for the shock event perform a sleight of hand to achieve their real goal, a goal they know to be hugely unpopular, but from which everyone has been distracted as they fight over the initial event. There is no longer concerted opposition to the real goal; opposition divides along the partisan lines established by the shock event.
Divide to conquer (and pillage in the process). Unless they go too far that even the GOP can't stand behind Pres Bannon's actions and impeach _rump, we're stuck with most of this for another two years, more if we reach "resistance fatigue" where those who aren't sickened and fighting against every new wrong get tired of hearing about "those whining protesters" and/or voter restrictions are passed in significant numbers to prevent the GOP from losing the Senate and/or House.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:03 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


unless republican senators decide that the peril to the nation is more important than ramming through their wet-dream agenda

*the hollowest of laughter*
posted by entropicamericana at 1:03 PM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


Yep. I got a $20 campaign donation for any Republican who wants to switch teams and get right with Jesus.
posted by ian1977 at 1:04 PM on February 1, 2017 [17 favorites]


So in my 3am musings, I wonder: would we nuke Iran? And if we did, wouldn't that burn up/irradiate the oil Trump says he wants?

Am I hoping that his desire to preserve oil he intends to seize illegally might keep him from using actual nukes? Pretty much! Am I afraid he's so out of it he won't know that? Also pretty much.

(also, I felt a stab of weird hope when the story of "Trump goes to undisclosed location" started surfacing because I thought "MAYBE HE WON'T COME BACK.")
posted by emjaybee at 1:06 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


DOS Notification: Revocation of Visas in Accordance with Presidential Executive Order
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:59 AM on February 2 [+] [!]

Meanwhile, here's another judgment out of DC preventing enforcement of original EO, just issued. So THAT'S their workaround. These dickheads.
posted by saysthis at 1:06 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


New York City Bodegas Will Shut Down To Protest The Immigration Ban
Yemeni-run grocery stores across the city will close from 12-8 p.m. on Thursday in protest of the controversial executive order. [...]

“This shutdown of grocery stores and bodegas will be a public show of the vital role these grocers and their families play in New York’s economic and social fabric,” the strike organizers wrote on Facebook. During the shutdown, grocery store owners will spend time with their families and loved ones to support each other; many of these families have been directly affected by the Ban.”

At a planned event on Thursday evening, at Brooklyn Borough Hall, “merchants will share the impact the Ban has had on them and their loved ones,” as well as “stories read on behalf of families who are afraid to come forward.”
From the FB link: "Thursday evening at 5:15pm, at Brooklyn Borough Hall, 209 Joralemon St. in the back of the building facing the plaza, the Yemeni American community will hold a rally, where some merchants will share the impact the Ban has had on them and their loved one. The program will begin with the Muslim call for prayer and a public sundown prayer by Muslim rally participants. The prayer will be followed by several Yemeni merchants and their families sharing personal stories of how their lives and families have been impacted by the ban, as well as stories read on behalf of families who are afraid to come forward."
posted by melissasaurus at 1:07 PM on February 1, 2017 [64 favorites]


[and, argh, feel free to keep ignoring that last post of mine. time to step away from the keyboard for a while.]
posted by Enturbulated at 1:08 PM on February 1, 2017


melissasaurus: In the last couple years, I’ve watched leaders in the Republican Party become less and less tolerant of diverse opinions and dissenting voices.

Maybe the Dems can really become a Big Tent again and welcome in moderate Republicans who are bullied (and worse) by the GOP. If we don't have the structure to build multi-party "coalition parties" as are found in countries with many political parties, then the Dems can do it themselves.

LET'S DO IT! Resist _rump and Pres Bannon on all fronts. Team up with anyone who agrees. Never give up. Go over, go under, go around, or go through… but never give up. (I saw this on a cheesy inspirational poster today, and it actually made me say "fuck yes!" to myself.)
posted by filthy light thief at 1:08 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Yep. I got a $20 campaign donation for any Republican who wants to switch teams and get right with Jesus.

This statement works no matter how you pronounce the name.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 1:11 PM on February 1, 2017 [15 favorites]




MSNBC saying that Tillerson's 43 votes against are more "No" votes than any other SoS nominee in history. (Though perhaps not a higher percentage than some previous nominee, since there were fewer Senators the further you go back?)
posted by XMLicious at 1:13 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


...would we nuke Iran? And if we did, wouldn't that burn up/irradiate the oil Trump says he wants?

I would have assumed that, being deep underground, and probably mostly quite distant from population centers, the oil wouldn't be affected by a nuclear attack.
posted by Coventry at 1:13 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Yep. I got a $20 campaign donation for any Republican who wants to switch teams and get right with Jesus.

I'll tack a zero on that. Where's the gofundme?
posted by saysthis at 1:14 PM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


And if we did, wouldn't that burn up/irradiate the oil Trump says he wants?

Some might burn, sure. Irradiate? Naw. You might want to spend some time reading about survival of blasts - being under the cover of ground helps block the gamma rays. 36 inches as an example of one quoted soil depth to block gamma rays.

The oil would become unrecoverable for US forces. Because how are the forces brought in NOT going to be harassed? And if the event was considered by other nations horrific enough - what happens to the US if the US Dollar becomes "no good" elsewhere as a result?
posted by rough ashlar at 1:14 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Science March on Washington has a date - Saturday, April 22 (Earth Day)
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 1:14 PM on February 1, 2017 [36 favorites]


Or whatever we use to create a pile of money for politicians willing to switch teams...
posted by saysthis at 1:15 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


At the risk of repetition I must ask that Americans call their Republican Senators and ask them to join Collins and Murkowski in opposing the dangerously unqualified Betsy DeVos for Secretary of Education! Only one more Republican is required to vote against DeVos for her nomination to fail and public schools to possibly not be destroyed so much!

Apparently it really works:

Speaking directly after Collins, Murkowski said she was inundated by calls from “thousands, literally thousands of constituents” urging her to oppose DeVos.

Americans, do your thing!

Please continue with thread
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:19 PM on February 1, 2017 [22 favorites]


The meat of my letter I'm faxing to Toomey re DeVos. Feel free to tweak/use:

I am a constituent asking Senator Toomey to reject the confirmation of Betsy DeVos for Secretary of Education. I am a disabled community college instructor. I teach basic writing skills to beginning and returning students. As somebody who knows intimately the need for support for disabled students, I am horrified that at her confirmation hearing, Ms. DeVos was apparently ignorant of laws that protect disabled students. Ms. DeVos displayed a stunning lack of knowledge on many other important points. With her combination of ignorance and inexperience, Ms. DeVos would be a disastrous choice for Secretary of Education. Please do what is needed to protect the children of the United States and vote against Ms. DeVos.
posted by angrycat at 1:19 PM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


We'll call it the Arlen Specter Fund.
posted by drezdn at 1:20 PM on February 1, 2017


The Tillerson vote

Heitkamp, Manchin and Warner vote YEA.

Not a single R has the courage to dissent.

Apparently we're just gonna let Russia buy a Presidency.
posted by dis_integration at 1:20 PM on February 1, 2017 [26 favorites]


I suspect Putin will declare his nukes are protecting Iran long before Trump even gets near the trigger.

Living through another Cuba...
posted by mushhushshu at 1:20 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Or we could create a fund to get them to retire. Call it the buh-bye fund.
posted by ian1977 at 1:20 PM on February 1, 2017


Yep. I got a $20 campaign donation for any Republican who wants to switch teams and get right with Jesus.

Samsies. I just sent her an email thanking her for her courage and support and telling her she'd have mine come her future reelection as a dem.
posted by mayonnaises at 1:23 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


A friend in Ohio got through to Portman's office, and they said he is also undecided about DeVos.
posted by amarynth at 1:25 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


Should we start a collaboratively edited politics post now, so we're not scrambling for one when this thread hits 3,000 comments?

This might work...
posted by Coventry at 1:27 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


I got Portman's DC office voicemail and urged him to vote no. I'm a constituent and I even left my phone number (!).
posted by cooker girl at 1:29 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


How did the Dems decide not to filibuster Tillerson? Keeping their powder dry for Gorsuch?
posted by Coventry at 1:29 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Maybe the Dems can really become a Big Tent again and welcome in moderate Republicans who are bullied (and worse) by the GOP. If we don't have the structure to build multi-party "coalition parties" as are found in countries with many political parties, then the Dems can do it themselves.

I agree with this. If we wish to put down the Republicans, the center and left need to be a coalition. If the center and left don't come together, the right is going to keep winning again and again. We gain nothing in the long run by driving the center away, except perhaps the good feeling that comes along with knowing you voted your conscience while watching the vulnerable get marched to camps.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:30 PM on February 1, 2017 [17 favorites]


Stealing this one from Twitter:

"The Senate decided that President Obama could not appoint a SCOTUS judge in his last year in office. Why should we now allow Trump to appoint one in his?"
posted by delfin at 1:31 PM on February 1, 2017 [45 favorites]


How did the Dems decide not to filibuster Tillerson? Keeping their powder dry for Gorsuch?

The Dems killed the filibuster for all non-Supreme Court appointees in 2013. Once they filibuster anything during this Congress, the GOP will kill the filibuster entirely.
posted by dis_integration at 1:33 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


Coventry - there is no longer a filibuster option for Cabinet appointees.
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 1:34 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


I think it would be great if a Dem would say that on the record with a straight face. 'People are saying that Trump may be impeached as early as this year. Perhaps it would be better to leave the SCOTUS pick to his successor.'
posted by ian1977 at 1:34 PM on February 1, 2017 [40 favorites]


Yes and what I would like is for there to be a non-insane conservative and an actual-liberal liberal party. There are plenty of Democrats who would make great Republicans if the party were not the last refuge of racist, world-destroying shitbags. What I want is the shitbags cut off, the centrists to become whatever replaces the Republicans and the Democrats to go left. And I am happy to help foster/nurture sane conservative/moderate alliances to get there, in terms of voters.

In other words, if we can get everyone who is not a racist world-destroying shitbag to band together to beat the shitbags, then we happily go back to two sane parties maybe. Or consider booting the electoral college and having several. Whatever.

But first we have some shitbags to fight. All non-shitbags welcome to join.
posted by emjaybee at 1:37 PM on February 1, 2017 [39 favorites]


also note that if you refuse to fight the shitbags when the shitbags hold the majority, you become a shitbag by proxy
posted by murphy slaw at 1:40 PM on February 1, 2017 [19 favorites]


> Speaking of Stephen Miller, here's an article posted today on Mother Jones, The Dark History of the White House Aides Who Crafted Trump's "Muslim Ban"

The author of the MoJo article was on Democracy Now today: President Bannon?: Racist, Islamophobic Breitbart Leader Consolidates Power in Trump White House
posted by homunculus at 1:42 PM on February 1, 2017


So, this is just ridiculous speculation on my part, but the 25th Amendment section 4 procedures for removing the President from office require the VP plus a majority of the cabinet (which is what I assume "principal officers of the executive departments" means) to invoke it. I have been wondering what the chance is that some of the Dems' support for otherwise-unqualified individuals like Tillerson is aimed at ensuring that if/when 25A-4 is invoked, they will support Trump's removal.
posted by biogeo at 1:43 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Sent faxes to all of Toomey's offices. I hope he has that old-timey fax paper that smudges and feels really weird. EAT MY FAXES YOU BAAAAASTARD okay done now.
posted by angrycat at 1:44 PM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


shitbags by proxy

As if I didn't have enough band names already
posted by delfin at 1:44 PM on February 1, 2017 [16 favorites]




Hypothetically, if Trump were removed, how easily/quickly could we recover from all this?

All of these terrible cabinet picks, these are political appointees that can easily be replaced by new appointees if needed, yes? And any executive orders Trump issues can be revoked by further executive orders I would think, especially given that he's likely to leave office in disgrace. So that only leaves the Supreme Court seat, if he manages to fill it.

Is there any precedence for removing a sitting SC justice based on malfeasance or conflicted loyalties of the President who appointed him/her? Or is that one piece of Trump legacy we'll be stuck with no matter what?
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 1:45 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


he's not going to be removed as long as people keep spending mental energy hypothesizing about the effects of his removal instead of rendering the country ungovernable
posted by murphy slaw at 1:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


Once they filibuster anything during this Congress, the GOP will kill the filibuster entirely.

This is not entirely clear to me. McCain and Graham are Senate traditionalists and despise Trump. I can imagine the more moderate GOP senators joining them, leading to 51 votes in opposition.

Indeed, it's possible even less moderate GOP senators will be unwilling to give up their individual filibuster power if they intend to have a long career.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


Who is Trump going to be replaced by that's going to appoint a different cabinet, when he's crafted one of the most evil ones in history?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:48 PM on February 1, 2017


I don't think recovery is an option at this point. I think we've reached a point that sort of looks like the fire ladder scene in "Its A Mad Mad Mad World." A bunch of white men teetering on the brink of death all grabbing for stolen money.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:49 PM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


Nearly everything to do with how Trump's presidency is being run is unprecedented and it's up in the air how things will recover/what shape they'll be in afterwards

we'll burn that bridge when we get to it
posted by flatluigi at 1:50 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Obviously, without the redistribution of wealth part that happens in the middle of the Mad Mad Mad World clip.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:51 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


Removing a SC justice would require biblical levels of provable and obvious wrongdoing on the justice's part, no matter who nominated him/her.

A Democratic President, Democratic Senate and Democratic House of Representatives could undo tons of harm, yes. Getting all three of these components into place is left as an exercise for the reader.
posted by delfin at 1:51 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


McCain and Graham are Senate traditionalists and despise Trump. I can imagine the more moderate GOP senators joining them, leading to 51 votes in opposition.

McCain and Graham have made it abundantly clear that their primary loyalty is to the Republican Party, not to the United States, not to the Senate, not to any other body. Maybe in their heart of hearts they would feel bad about destroying the filibuster, but they would do it if McConnell told them to.
posted by biogeo at 1:52 PM on February 1, 2017 [10 favorites]




We're going to be living with Gorsuch for the next 40 years, no matter what. The time to avoid that was when folks were going on about Hillary's emails and how both sides were essentially the same because neoliberalism. It is a done deal, and your children and grandchildren will live with the fallout.

In the unlikely event that Trump is removed, the new president will be Pence. He's slightly less deranged than Trump, but he's not ideologically better in any way. Bannon will probably have less influence if he takes over, but nothing else really changes.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:52 PM on February 1, 2017 [28 favorites]


Awww. I was kind of rooting for the bobcat.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:53 PM on February 1, 2017 [10 favorites]


Gorsuch is life. And it gets Gorsucher every day.

(sorry)
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:54 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Think that cat was trying to get out of the blast radius while the gettin's good
posted by angrycat at 1:54 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


U.S. District Judge Andre Birotte Jr. in Los Angeles granted another restraining order against the EO "travel ban" on behalf of 28 Yemeni-born individuals. He extended it to anyone trying to enter the U.S. on a valid immigrant visa from the seven countries included in the ban.
posted by Sophie1 at 1:55 PM on February 1, 2017 [22 favorites]


Toomey believes DeVos is a 'great pick,' spokeswoman says: Statement squelches speculation that Toomey will oppose DeVos

DeVos contributed $60K to Toomey's campaign, which strikes me as a bargain to buy a U.S. Senator.
posted by gladly at 1:57 PM on February 1, 2017 [35 favorites]


thanks all I guess I'm just having a end-of-Brazil-like reverie in which irrefutable evidence of Russian collusion and the $19B bribe come to light and there's enough outcry to consider the election illegitimate, oust both Trump and Pence, and call for special elections to replace them. but never mind here comes the dude in the baby mask again.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 1:57 PM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


This is not entirely clear to me.

The filibuster for SC nominees will be gone the instant the Dems try to use it but I agree with you that the filibuster for legislation may well stay put. Republicans in the Senate know full well they'll need it at some point in the not super distant future.
posted by Justinian at 1:57 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Charles Pierce: The Senate Is Now, Finally, a Battlefield. The chamber's collegial atmosphere has broken down. Maybe that's a good thing.

Love is The Senate's a battlefield?
posted by Talez at 1:58 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Awww. I was kind of rooting for the bobcat.

It's a good thing Frederick Douglass found her.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:59 PM on February 1, 2017 [29 favorites]


Democrats are better off in the long run without the filibuster. Because of the electoral structure of the Senate, the filibuster works to the advantage of rural white racists.

Republicans are the party of the status quo. The filibuster and obstruction works to their advantage.

Democrats are the party of progress. The filibuster and obstruction work to their disadvantage. If you can never have nice things, why vote Democrat?

Imagine the difference if back in 2009 and 2010 Democrats had been able to pass a better healthcare bill with single payer. If Democrats could have passed a massive infrastructure stimulus package. If the Democrats could have renewed the Voting Rights Act. They might not have been slaughtered in the 2010 election and today Hillary Clinton might be President.

It's half-assed stuff like Obamacare and the mediocre stimulus due to the filibuster that turns off voters to the possibilities of Democratic progressivism. The filibuster is the enemy of progress.
posted by JackFlash at 1:59 PM on February 1, 2017 [23 favorites]


@vineyille
Frederick Douglass, tremendous guy. Invented the peanut, rode the bus, all of it. Black. Where is he? Is he... ok, well he's around.

real tweet, fake quote
posted by chris24 at 1:59 PM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


Yale Press gets into the shade business.
posted by Sophie1 at 1:59 PM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


U.S. District Judge Andre Birotte Jr. in Los Angeles granted another restraining order against the EO "travel ban" on behalf of 28 Yemeni-born individuals. He extended it to anyone trying to enter the U.S. on a valid immigrant visa from the seven countries included in the ban.

Except the visas were cancelled, presumably making them no longer "valid." Way to evade a court order, guys.
posted by zachlipton at 2:03 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


So the March for Science will be happening on April 22. Mefites, that's my birthday. Can you all give me an awesome gift and attend? In DC, if you can, in any sister marches if you can't. I'll be in Boston.

We can do this!
posted by lydhre at 2:03 PM on February 1, 2017 [16 favorites]


In the unlikely event that Trump is removed, the new president will be Pence. He's slightly less deranged than Trump, but he's not ideologically better in any way. Bannon will probably have less influence if he takes over, but nothing else really changes.

"The arsonist won't have gasoline and a lighter if Pence takes over, but nothing else really changes."
posted by Talez at 2:03 PM on February 1, 2017


Okay, so I have heard a halfway decent argument for not filibustering Gorsuch. In part Jennifer Victor's argument though I've seen similar. The idea is basically:

Right now McConnell almost certainly has the votes to use the nuclear option, since Trump is still polling... okay... and Gorsuch is not a total whackjob.

If things continue as they have been, Trump is going to be really damaged, a real liability, within a couple of years and senators might well be trying to demonstrate independence from him. In that event, *IF* there is still a filibuster on the table, Democrats might be able to successfully filibuster a whack-job appointment to replace a liberal because McConnell might not have the 51 votes he'd need to nuke it.

Which... isn't terrible? I still don't have the confidence myself that senators wouldn't just double down on Trump since the GOP has gotten addicted to cheap, easy votes with racism and abortion. But I can concede that this is a realistic way in which keeping the filibuster "safe" for the replacement of a liberal (or Kennedy) would be a position you could hold and not just be a disgusting pile of quisling poop.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:04 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Is the weekly(?) list of immigrant crimes still part of the EO on immigration? I haven't heard much about it, and I'm surprised more people aren't pointing out the heritage it shares with Breitbart's list of crimes committed by black people and similar lists published by Nazi newspapers.

Granted, the Bannon/Pence/Trump administration is flinging so much shit, it's hard to track each particular turd.
posted by lord_wolf at 2:05 PM on February 1, 2017




ROU this assumes that Republicans just don't vote the filibuster away just because, which is a huuuuuge assumption relying on norms that just no longer exist.
posted by AlexiaSky at 2:06 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Can someone who can draw do a picture of the statue of liberty being set up for an old fashioned witch burning, with someone (trump, or maybe trump with bannon on guiding his hand) lighting the sticks with a burning constitution? cause that's how it feels right now.
posted by The Shoodoonoof at 2:07 PM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


Democrats are better off in the long run without the filibuster. Because of the electoral structure of the Senate, the filibuster works to the advantage of rural white racists.

Because of the electoral structure of the Senate, the entire Senate works to the advantage of rural white racists. It's not clear to me that the Democrats have a long-term advantage in holding the Senate despite having more people support them.
posted by Justinian at 2:07 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


GOP wants to ditch this transparency rule for oil/gas companies just after mystery person bought 19% of Rosneft & confirming Tillerson

They're really going all in on selling out to Putin and helping Trump hide the proceeds. Remember this treason.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:07 PM on February 1, 2017 [75 favorites]


Can you imagine having that filthy SOB trying to comfort you in your darkest hour.

On that: I have been thinking about Obama at Sandy Hook a lot; and struggling and failing to imagine Trump offering that kind of emotional support. I suspect the next national tragedy is going to starkly reveal his howling lack of compassion.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 2:10 PM on February 1, 2017 [25 favorites]


If the shooter is white next time Trump won't even acknowledge it happened, forget empathy.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:11 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


I suspect the next national tragedy is going to starkly reveal his howling lack of compassion.

And lack of comprehension.
posted by ZeusHumms at 2:11 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trump would just call it a hoax and not go.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:12 PM on February 1, 2017


Basically, it comes down to what you'd prefer the Dems to die on a hill for.

Symbolic resistance to a guy who won't change the actual jurisprudential arc of the Court, or making sure that the Democrats have as good a chance as possible to prevent Pence from installing a fifth vote to overturn Roe v. Wade?

Like, I don't know what I'd do if RBG dies while Trump is in office, and he gets to appoint her replacement. It's equally awful in practical terms if the death is Kennedy or Breyer or god forbid even one of Kagan and Sotomayor, but my hands start to shake and my entire mouth tastes like bile at the idea that the American right might get to use RBG's death to overturn Roe v. Wade and everything that RBG and so many other feminist heroes worked their entire professional lives for.
posted by joyceanmachine at 2:12 PM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


GOP wants to ditch this transparency rule for oil/gas companies just after mystery person bought 19% of Rosneft & confirming Tillerson


Why be subtle when most of your opposition and the widely watched bits of media are being so fucking lax.
posted by Slackermagee at 2:13 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Oh Toomey, you POS. Well, the good thing about sending out faxes that get ignored is now I have a grudge and a smooth faxing process now. Watch out.
posted by angrycat at 2:14 PM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


Days after New York yellow cab drivers went on strike to protest President Trump’s executive order on immigration, another community of immigrants central to the life of the city are planning a strike of their own. Bodega owners — a trade dominated by Yemeni Americans in New York City — plan to close their doors on Thursday to show their opposition to the ban.
The strike is planned from 12-8 p.m., so morning coffee and egg-and-cheeses will be be unaffected. Organizers say more than 1,000 Yemeni American grocery store owners across the five boroughs plan to participate.
posted by Coventry at 2:15 PM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


On that: I have been thinking about Obama at Sandy Hook a lot; and struggling and failing to imagine Trump offering that kind of emotional support. I suspect the next national tragedy is going to starkly reveal his howling lack of compassion.

It's going to be a different tact. He's going to swear vengeance against the perpetrators for the victims. Blood for the fallen.
posted by Talez at 2:16 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Mohammed Tawfeeq, a CNN editor and producer, award-winning journalist and manager of CNN’s International Desk who was detained Sunday at Atlanta’s Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport has filed a lawsuit against the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Customs, and Border Protection, and other federal agencies.
posted by adamvasco at 2:16 PM on February 1, 2017 [38 favorites]


I don't know what I'd do if RBG dies while Trump is in office, and he gets to appoint her replacement. It's equally awful in practical terms if the death is Kennedy or Breyer or god forbid even one of Kagan and Sotomayor, but my hands start to shake and my entire mouth tastes like bile at the idea that the American right might get to use RBG's death to overturn Roe v. Wade and everything that RBG and so many other feminist heroes worked their entire professional lives for.

Frankly, Gorsuch doesn't scare me at all. Its a stolen seat, but Roe survived years of Scalia, and marriage equality passed with Scalia on the bench. I found myself to be somewhat relieved that he was actually an actual Justice with degrees and experience and stuff. I have faith that he will be no worse the Scalia was.

What comes after Gorsuch, however, scares the crap out of me.
posted by anastasiav at 2:16 PM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


ROU this assumes that Republicans just don't vote the filibuster away just because, which is a huuuuuge assumption relying on norms that just no longer exist.

I basically agree with what you're saying but the idea there isn't crazy. The idea is that in 2018 or 2019 Trump may be really damaged, might be a W-level liability, and that while McConnell almost certainly has the votes to kill the filibuster and replace Scalia with younger Scalia, he really might not have the 51 votes he would need later to do so.

It's not compelling, at least to me, but it's not bonkers or just defeatist and awful. It's an I-think-wrong argument that I can imagine decent people believing.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:18 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


This whole thing makes perfect sense and yet we'll never be able to prove any of it. Putin leans on Trump, offers $19B in Rosneft shares to become president (with his help) and drop the sanctions against Russia. Trump agrees, the transaction takes place under a crazy layer of cutouts and holding companies, and before anyone can get to the bottom of it, Republicans push to remove transparency rules.

Trump never released his tax returns or divested his investments because he's been telling everyone all along that he was a billionaire despite the fact that he was completely underwater on most of his deals. With no transparency on his taxes or finances, there's nobody to notice a well-laundered multi-billion dollar infusion, and he carries on as if he's always had that money.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 2:18 PM on February 1, 2017 [30 favorites]


If things continue as they have been, Trump is going to be really damaged, a real liability, within a couple of years and senators might well be trying to demonstrate independence from him. In that event, *IF* there is still a filibuster on the table, Democrats might be able to successfully filibuster a whack-job appointment to replace a liberal because McConnell might not have the 51 votes he'd need to nuke it.


I can't even count the number of times I've died playing roguelikes with a health potion in my pocket because I might really need it later.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:18 PM on February 1, 2017 [100 favorites]


I wonder if Obama gave President Bannon any advice as he took office or if he just spoke with his Bannon's orange megaphone?
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:23 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Klobuchar has tweeted that she is going to vote no across the board from now on, no really she is, please tell all of your friends this and have them stop calling her office
posted by dinty_moore at 2:25 PM on February 1, 2017 [23 favorites]


Can you imagine having that filthy SOB trying to comfort you in your darkest hour.

No, because he wouldn't be capable of that.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:28 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


What am I missing about this Supreme Court Justice nomination?

It seems like the time to cause an uproar about it was last year, when the Republicans pulled their shitty shitty move. We should have taken to the streets then to demand that they replace Scalia. That's on me for not being more engaged, I get it. But I also remember an element of bluffing, like, okay, if they don't take moderate Garland now, just think of who Hillary will announce!

I know the Supreme Court Justices are responsible for some the most important decisions in America, and we're terrified of what will happen if one of them passes away now, and of course Trump's pick sucks, but it was always going to suck as far as we were concerned, and we've known that, right? He's still an actual judge who seems to do actual judge things, as crummy as his statements and decisions might have been.

Compared to the blatantly illegal undermining of everything America stands for in every other part of this administration, what makes Gorsuch's nomination so wildly unacceptable?
posted by redsparkler at 2:29 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Compared to the blatantly illegal undermining of everything America stands for in every other part of this administration, what makes Gorsuch's nomination so wildly unacceptable?

I might see the confectioner making a sundae out of shit, but when he puts a cherry on top, hands out spoons and says "eat," that's when many are going to object most vocally.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:32 PM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


Gorsuch should be opposed on principle, because Scalia's seat should rightfully remain empty until Trump nominates Merrick Garland and Merrick Garland gets a hearing. It has nothing to do with Gorsuch's qualifications. :D
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:32 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


Compared to the blatantly illegal undermining of everything America stands for in every other part of this administration, what makes Gorsuch's nomination so wildly unacceptable?

Because we're gonna be stuck with Gorsuch until we are old or dead.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:33 PM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


what makes Gorsuch's nomination so wildly unacceptable?

Unlike (hopefully...) Trump, Gorsuch will be around for many decades (could easily be 30+ years).

Really any non-moderate nominee should be unacceptable given the GOP behavior last year (and their statements that they wouldn't even confirm a nominee for Clinton!).

I mean, we can't stop it. Best case scenario is every Dem opposes, GOP nukes filibuster and confirms him.

So basically everything is terrible, but thats not news.
posted by thefoxgod at 2:33 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


This is an amazing twitter thread about the likelihood of attacks on the trans community because they are seen as more vulnerable than LGB. And generally how the opposition uses liberal weaknesses/looks for ways to split us apart.

Their research indicates that the general public will happily let trans people burn first as expendable. That cis LGB people will, too.

The plan? To remove our ability to get legal ID documents. There goes voting, travel, med. care, having an answer to "your papers, please."

posted by emjaybee at 2:33 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


Can you imagine having that filthy SOB trying to comfort you in your darkest hour.

christ, he'll probably try to fuck her
posted by poffin boffin at 2:34 PM on February 1, 2017 [19 favorites]


Yeah, I don't think this is new outrage. This is old outrage that's bubbling to the surface once again. Because the assholes got away with it.
posted by dinty_moore at 2:34 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Compared to the blatantly illegal undermining of everything America stands for in every other part of this administration, what makes Gorsuch's nomination so wildly unacceptable?

Gorsuch -- in and of himself -- is not what makes it unacceptable. I mean, yes, he is a hardcore conservative originalist asshole but he's not a play-with-your-own-feces-in-the-produce-aisle-at-Safeway dingbat like, say, Priscilla Owen or Janice Rogers Brown.

What is wildly unacceptable is that the Republican Party destroyed the mechanism by which Supreme Court Justices received hearings and floor votes, refusing to acknowledge its procedures and precedents in any way in a direct insult to Obama and his administration, then shifted gears and said "okay, now that Trump is President, this mechanism is back to full normal operation and we demand your full cooperation" and expect the Democrats to say "Okay! Hyuk" in their very best Goofy voices.
posted by delfin at 2:35 PM on February 1, 2017 [70 favorites]


What am I missing about this Supreme Court Justice nomination?

For me the fundamental objection is only that the seat was stolen for blatantly political reasons.
posted by jedicus at 2:36 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


This is old outrage that's bubbling to the surface once again. Because the assholes got away with it.

Yeah, honestly this is still one of the hardest things for me to move on from, because for the rest of my life the court is fucked because the GOP refused to follow the basic rules of our country. And voters rewarded them. (Which is why I have no hope in things being fixed in future elections, and no real hope for the US to recover from any of this)
posted by thefoxgod at 2:36 PM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


This is not politics-as-usual, and this is not good. Merrick Garland should have had a chance at that seat; he was denied, for no reason save partisanship, not even the seat itself but the hearings to discern whether or not he would make a good Justice, in an absolute dereliction of the Senates responsibility to advise and consent.

Really any non-moderate nominee should be unacceptable given the GOP behavior last year (and their statements that they wouldn't even confirm a nominee for Clinton!).

Looks like people started discussing the topic of my question in the time it took for me to write it, which is helpful! Sounds like the most egregious bullshit was the stuff that happened last year; but they should acknowledge that it was egregious bullshit and aim for someone moderate.

I don't think they're going to acknowledge that it was egregious bullshit.
posted by redsparkler at 2:37 PM on February 1, 2017


public outrage is stronger now because when the guy who proposed banning all Muslims bans a bunch of Muslims it gets people really riled up and that can have a snowball effect
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:37 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


That time that the Joint Chiefs spied on a paranoid, warmongering president.

In his 1976 memoir, On Watch, Admiral Zumwalt lamented "the deliberate, systematic and, unfortunately, extremely successful efforts of the President, Henry Kissinger, and a few subordinate members of their inner circle to conceal, sometimes by simple silence, more often by articulate deceit, their real policies about the most critical matters of national security." Scarcely alone in his views, Zumwalt marveled "that rational men could think that running things like that could have any other result than 'leaks' and 'spying' and all-around paranoia." Indeed, he said, "they had created a system in which 'leaks' and 'spying' were everyday and essential elements."


Yes, the Zumwalt that this was named after.
posted by lalochezia at 2:38 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


public outrage is stronger now because when the guy who proposed banning all Muslims bans a bunch of Muslims it gets people really riled up and that can have a snowball effect

That's the problem with getting a bunch of snowflakes together.
posted by dinty_moore at 2:39 PM on February 1, 2017 [16 favorites]


Trump's voter fraud source caught in contradictions about non-profit he claims to run

The story ends by explaining that Phillips blocked the reporter on Twitter following the interview.
posted by zachlipton at 2:40 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


And if Jon Stewart was elected, then we'd have a rational human being with a deep grasp of politics and world-class communication skills for President.

He visited the Late Show last night and was looking very presidential.
posted by peeedro at 2:40 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


The SCOTUS nomination has been done deal since Nov 9. We knew there would be a Scalia 2.0 put in his place, it was just a question of which one. That fight is lost.

I think the focus should be kept on convincing senators and reps, especially moderate Rs, that they will be tainted by everything 45 does until he's removed, and doing so sooner rather than later is better for their careers.

To be honest, my best-case scenario is for this Russia issue to be proven once and for all and the fallout so egregious that the whole lot of them get frog-marched out of the White House en masse.
posted by rocket88 at 2:43 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


Fights are not lost until they're actually fought.
posted by flatluigi at 2:44 PM on February 1, 2017 [46 favorites]


Compared to the blatantly illegal undermining of everything America stands for in every other part of this administration, what makes Gorsuch's nomination so wildly unacceptable?

BECAUSE WE ALL FUCKING THOUGHT HILLARY WOULD WIN! THAT'S WHY!
posted by Sophie1 at 2:45 PM on February 1, 2017 [26 favorites]


What am I missing about this Supreme Court Justice nomination?

Totally agree the Democrats should've made a far bigger deal of it during the campaign. You could count the number of mentions by Clinton on one tiny hand, and none of her ads or messaging revolved around the historic opportunity to flip the court at all. Let's not even talk about the downticket slate of hapless RINOs and Schumercrats like Ted Strickland who ran braindead zombie campaigns with no discernible messaging or strategy whatsoever. Some of us were here the whole time saying these things, but screaming into the void from the outside only went so far.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:46 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


From quite a ways up the thread by now, but
“Nigel Farage wearing a Donald Trump badge at the European Parliament is the most pathetic thing I’ve seen in my life.” writes @Mangal2.

They're around the corner from me, and I do believe I shall dine there tomorrow night to thank them for their outspokenness. And maybe notch a Gilbert & George sighting while I'm at it, for which (based on past experience) I'm laying 3:1 odds in favor.
posted by adamgreenfield at 2:46 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


this is still one of the hardest things for me to move on from,

I'm not moving on. I'm pretty sure I never will.

I had this realization today about what could be happening if things had gone the other way. That we could hear Clinton give an excellent, well-crafted speech, and the right wingers would be grumbling because they don't like her voice, and then there'd be a massive feud on Tumblr about how some nuance of the speech was wrong and how the rest of us just didn't CARE --

(not to mention, the concern-trolling about saber-rattling against Russia, and some sort of stupid scandal somewhere)

-- and how we could actually get into stupid feuds for once. Because it wouldn't matter.

And I really wish that we could have that. But we won't. Not now. Possibly not for a very long time.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 2:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [19 favorites]


Compared to the blatantly illegal undermining of everything America stands for in every other part of this administration, what makes Gorsuch's nomination so wildly unacceptable?

In addition to what everyone else has said, I think a lot of anger has coalesced around Gorsuch because the Dems spent the first week of this administration acting like things were business as usual and people are pissed at them for it. The timing of the Gorsuch nomination coming when this anger is becoming increasingly clear, combined with the obstruction of Garland, makes it a real flashpoint issue.
posted by Mavri at 2:49 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Looks like people started discussing the topic of my question in the time it took for me to write it, which is helpful! Sounds like the most egregious bullshit was the stuff that happened last year; but they should acknowledge that it was egregious bullshit and aim for someone moderate.
We all realized that it was egregious bullshit, but there was a way to fix it, which was to win the election. That was the only fix as long as the Republicans controlled the Senate. We failed, and now there is no fix.
Totally agree the Democrats should've made a far bigger deal of it during the campaign.
It wasn't a winning issue for the Democrats in a lot of places that were in play. A lot of Evangelical Christians will tell you that they didn't like Trump very much, but they held their noses and voted for him so he would appoint Supreme Court justices who would save babies, by which they mean fetuses, because they don't care about actual babies.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:51 PM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


It's a good thing Frederick Douglass found her.

He really has been doing some very good work. Tremendous, tremendous work, believe me.
posted by mudpuppie at 2:58 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


save babies

The correct term in this context is, I believe, "magic angel babies."
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:59 PM on February 1, 2017


the correct term is actually "to use childbirth to punish women".
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:02 PM on February 1, 2017 [48 favorites]


In the meantime, please keep your children and relatives as far from the American Armed Forces branches as you possibly can, for their own good and safety.

Convincing some of them that desertion when confronted with a Proactive Strike Against Someone Trump Doesn't Like is the moral option may take some doing, but despite what Fred Gwynne thought, generally dead ISN'T better.
posted by delfin at 3:02 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


And you know what's hilarious? Every time we talked about the Supreme Court and what a big deal it was and how terrifying the thought of Trump appointing three justices was, the left brigade told us to shut up, because that was the politics of fear, and the Supreme Court is all just about identity politics and not real economic issues anyway.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:03 PM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


and you what'll help? re-litigating the past!
posted by entropicamericana at 3:05 PM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


I know there's no filibuster option for cabinet appointees, in the sense of "we are announcing a filibuster, so shut up unless you have a 2/3 vote" - but is there an actual filibuster option, as in, "I have the floor, and I'm not relinquishing it; I'm going to keep talking... and talking... and talking... and everything comes to a halt until you have agreed to drop this one?"
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:10 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Right now I appreciate some re-litigation of the past if it helps me understand our present a little bit more. I know we don't want to hash out a bunch of older topics in these threads, but I found ArbitraryAndCapricious' comment important for context. I can't be the only one who missed the meta commentary on the Supreme Court nomination the first time around.
posted by redsparkler at 3:12 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


If by "every time" you mean "about 3% of the time," ArbitraryAndCapricious.
posted by Coventry at 3:13 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Sure, I'd love to relitigate the past, redsparkler, but the consensus is not to do that because it's a waste of energy and good will.
posted by Coventry at 3:14 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


don't worry we'll get to relitigate it in 2018 and 2020 when it will become the present again
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:15 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


For me the fundamental objection is only that the seat was stolen for blatantly political reasons.

Any nominee who isn't Merrick Garland is fundamentally illegitimate and does not deserve hearings in the first place, let alone a filibuster-free confirmation. To do anything less than this is to legitimize the Republican dereliction of duty for the past year, and that is unacceptable.
posted by kafziel at 3:16 PM on February 1, 2017 [47 favorites]


Every time we talked about the Supreme Court and what a big deal it was and how terrifying the thought of Trump appointing three justices was, the left brigade told us to shut up

This is not my recollection at all. Even a little. My recollection is that it was recognized to be really important, but not something that moves people on the left nearly as it moves people on the right. Every day that SCOTUS was an issue would have been a loser for Clinton. I don't think Clinton could win a vote talking about SCOTUS without Trump picking up one and a half. That's not about the democrats being wimps, or not willing to fight for what they believe in, that's recognition that it was a losing issue.
posted by skewed at 3:16 PM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


@joshtpm
Lot of rough news out of the Trump White House but Frederick Douglass still being alive is incredibly good news.
posted by chris24 at 3:18 PM on February 1, 2017 [72 favorites]


Compared to the blatantly illegal undermining of everything America stands for in every other part of this administration, what makes Gorsuch's nomination so wildly unacceptable?

Because a person actively in defiance of the court and the constitution on the issue of this Muslim ban should in no circumstances be allowed to influence the highest court of this country further.
posted by Zalzidrax at 3:28 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


I know there's no filibuster option for cabinet appointees, in the sense of "we are announcing a filibuster, so shut up unless you have a 2/3 vote" - but is there an actual filibuster option, as in, "I have the floor, and I'm not relinquishing it; I'm going to keep talking... and talking... and talking... and everything comes to a halt until you have agreed to drop this one?"

No, you can't. This is actually how the filibuster mechanism works. There is a cloture vote to terminate all debate, which requires 60 votes currently. That cloture vote takes away your right to hold the floor and prevent a vote on the issue at hand. After cloture, a simple majority vote is all that is required to win.
posted by JackFlash at 3:28 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


quoted upthread: “I promise you that we will be united against any Supreme Court nominee that Clinton, if she were president, would put up.” - @SenJohnMcCain
It essentially became impossible for a non-conservative justice to join the Supreme Court when the Republicans won a majority in the Senate, and not a moment later. A better Democratic Party and a better President at the time might have made it possible. And this is one reason why Obama as the 'This Is Fine' dog in the burning room is a tragically accurate image.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:29 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


we'll get to relitigate it in 2018 and 2020 when it will become the present again

Hopefully next time we'll make fewer mistakes.
posted by Coventry at 3:29 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Reuters: Exclusive: Trump to focus counter-extremism program solely on Islam - sources: The program, "Countering Violent Extremism," or CVE, would be changed to "Countering Islamic Extremism" or "Countering Radical Islamic Extremism," the sources said, and would no longer target groups such as white supremacists who have also carried out bombings and shootings in the United States.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:36 PM on February 1, 2017 [36 favorites]


The strike is planned from 12-8 p.m., so morning coffee and egg-and-cheeses will be be unaffected. Organizers say more than 1,000 Yemeni American grocery store owners across the five boroughs plan to participate.

I hope all NYC customers who are able will go into bodegas before noon, buy a fuckload of stuff, pay with a twice-as-large bill, and say "keep the change."
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:41 PM on February 1, 2017 [36 favorites]


Well the Christian Right got its reward for it support in the form of a Supreme Court pick, and it looks like radical white supremacists got their reward in the form of the government leaving them to do whatever they want (when Bannon isn't actively helping to carry out their agenda from the inside that is).
posted by zachlipton at 3:45 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


My son's teacher told him today that he shouldn't get info from Snopes because it is owned by George Soros. A special education teacher told his Autistic student that. This is not normal.
posted by Biblio at 3:46 PM on February 1, 2017 [94 favorites]


I actually just wrote a long comment about private charity welfare systems and then I had a malware issue that killed my browser.

But anyway, yes, certainly there are things that could be done to create non-governmental safety nets. Those of us in Republican controlled states may know that this is basically all we have now anyway. There are many flaws to these slapdash, religiously run charities.

One of them is the tendency for corruption. For people looking to run a scam, neighborhood nonprofits are an attractive lure. When you can turn anyone away for any reason (like, you're not the right religion, you're gay, you dress funny, you have a mental illness, etc) there's lots of avenues for abuse.

I watched a local faith-based aid agency grow from a couple people in an old house to a booming operation that took over a whole town with their influence. They run multiple thrift stores where they bring in HUGE amounts of money and move goods around by the semi-truck. The labor for all their money making is unpaid. Once they get someone living in their housing they require 30 hours a week of labor for them for free, in exchange for a bed and food. The money they rake in is spent expanding the operation, buying more property, creating more stores.

Yes, they help people, in that there are people who have a place to live who otherwise wouldn't. But those people are chosen through a rigorous set of criteria, and the org enforces very strict rules. You can lose your housing for associating with people the people in charge don't like, or having a sexual relationship. Plus there's no actual assistance at getting a job or permanent housing. The system is set up to keep people there, working for free. If you get a job with an income, you are kicked out.

And this is an org run by people who I believe have good intentions. Mostly. But it gets into the idea of serving the "deserving" poor instead of everyone in need. The main benefits of a government system is that they shouldn't be discriminating. And they should be running their agencies according to what science says works. That doesn't always happen, because politicians interfere so much. It's work fighting for government services for this very reason. Without the government there are NO checks against corruption and discrimination.
posted by threeturtles at 3:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [19 favorites]


Monday February 20th is Presidents' Day. It's also the day the Episcopal church celebrates the prophetic voice of Frederick Douglas.
Ideas?
posted by SyraCarol at 3:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


What's the upside to warring with them?

War! What is it good for? It's good for business.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Biblio, please tell me you're going to have a meeting with the principal about that. Disgusting.
posted by donatella at 3:49 PM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


This is so wrong and disturbing. donnie is insane example # ?????

Report: In a 'humiliating' and 'threatening' tone, Trump lambasted Mexico's president during a phone call

During a phone call with Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto on Friday, US President Donald Trump disparaged Mexico and threatened to use military force against the drug trade, according to Dolia Estevez, a journalist based in Washington, DC.

In an interview with the Mexican news outlet Aristegui Noticias, Estevez, who cited sources on both sides of the call, said, "It was a very offensive conversation where Trump humiliated Peña Nieto."

-- "I don't need the Mexicans. I don't need Mexico," Trump reportedly told the Mexican president. "We are going to build the wall and you all are going to pay for it, like it or not."

-- "He even complained of the bad role the [Mexican] army is playing in the fight against narco trafficking,"

-- Trump "even suggested to [Peña Nieto] that if they are incapable of combatting [narco trafficking] he may have to send troops to assume this task,"

-- The US president "said he would not permit the drugs coming from Mexico to continue massacring our cities," Estevez added. She said Trump went so far as to say, "I really didn't want to go to Mexico last August," referring to Trump's visit to the Mexican capital last year.

posted by futz at 3:49 PM on February 1, 2017 [46 favorites]


Interactive graph of business/legal/political relationships to Trump. (You probably don't want to load it on your phone, it looks very javascript-heavy.) Commentary.
posted by Coventry at 3:50 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


I thought I was pretty inured to being in disbelief at things Trump does but threatening to invade Mexico is a hell of a fucking thing
posted by flatluigi at 3:51 PM on February 1, 2017 [83 favorites]


My son's teacher told him today that he shouldn't get info from Snopes because it is owned by George Soros. A special education teacher told his Autistic student that. This is not normal.

Your son's teacher should not be teaching anybody's kids and if there's anything you can do about that you should do it.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:52 PM on February 1, 2017 [47 favorites]


Iran is bigger than Iraq and Afghanistan combined - and it's population is more than double that of Iraq.

They've also had front-row seats in a decade-and-a-half clinic on how to fight us to a standstill.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:52 PM on February 1, 2017 [10 favorites]


Reminder: contribute to the text for a potential introduction to the next political thread here. I'll try to send out a reminder every hundred comments or so.
posted by Coventry at 3:52 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


We definitely need to have some sort of pool to guess the first place that Trump actually does invade. Mexico? Iran? Chicago?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:52 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Wow futz, that is on the same level as commandeering enough boats to walk across the harbor crazy.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:53 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Convincing some of them that desertion when confronted with a Proactive Strike Against Someone Trump Doesn't Like is the moral option may take some doing

i was just thinking about how best to approach suggesting to legislators that extant sanctuary cities expand their sanctuary guidelines to include military personnel who have gone awol as conscientious objectors.

do countries generally accept deserters fleeing the armies of totalitarian despots as refugees?
posted by poffin boffin at 3:56 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


I thought I was pretty inured to being in disbelief at things Trump does but threatening to invade Mexico is a hell of a fucking thing

I'll bet he doesn't even realize that he's talking about invasion. He just thinks, "I want to do this thing. Maybe I'll use troops to do it." He doesn't realize the ramifications.
posted by diogenes at 3:57 PM on February 1, 2017 [28 favorites]


OTOH, Trump simply can't invade Mexico, Chicago, Iran, etc all at once - even the mighty United States can't invade everywhere. If this is typical for a Trump operation, by "invade" he means more like "find some shitty local security firm, slap the Trump brand on it and brag about your military force".
posted by Frowner at 3:57 PM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


Monday February 20th is Presidents' Day. It's also the day the Episcopal church celebrates the prophetic voice of Frederick Douglas. Ideas?

Maybe in protest we all refuse to acknowledge the holiday that honors American presidents and insist on showing up to work anyway?

No wait, that's no good.
posted by mudpuppie at 3:59 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


FYI for attorneys: PLI is offering their immigration basics CLE classes for free right now. There's a webcast tomorrow on filing a habeus petition to contest immigration detention. They offer CLE credit for most states.
posted by melissasaurus at 3:59 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


AP now has a story on the Mexico call too. They say they have a transcript of the conversation. [real! actual AP report! omg! real!]
"You have a bunch of bad hombres down there," Trump told Pena Nieto, according to the excerpt seen by the AP. "You aren't doing enough to stop them. I think your military is scared. Our military isn't, so I just might send them down to take care of it."

A person with access to the official transcript of the phone call provided an excerpt to The Associated Press. The person gave it on condition of anonymity because the administration did not make the details of the call public.
*faints*
posted by zachlipton at 3:59 PM on February 1, 2017 [78 favorites]


Mod note: I am merrily deleting commentary on the primaries. Please reload and move on, folks. Thanks.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 4:01 PM on February 1, 2017 [34 favorites]


"You have a bunch of bad hombres down there," Trump told Pena Nieto, according to the excerpt seen by the AP. "You aren't doing enough to stop them. I think your military is scared. Our military isn't, so I just might send them down to take care of it."

why what I no no no
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:02 PM on February 1, 2017 [27 favorites]


We definitely need to have some sort of pool to guess the first place that Trump actually does invade

I'd bet on Syria first. With Tillerson confirmed, there can be an agreement for a joint Russian-American force on the ground to fight ISIS or something. Plus, the ISIS held areas straddle the border with Iraq, which puts him in position to steal oil. He won't actually steal anything, and the war will go badly enough under his management that he won't be able to start any new fights. The first invasion will be the last one.

But if there is some super secret coup plan, I'd put equal money on Chicago as a way to stir some of the left into violent resistance. Which, of course, gives the excuse for new executive powers. Tin foil hat territory but tin foil is increasingly useful these days.
posted by honestcoyote at 4:02 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Jesus Christ this man is so fucking stupid.
posted by bibliowench at 4:03 PM on February 1, 2017 [45 favorites]


Question re: calling reps: Is it worth it to call after hours (and leave a voicemail) or should I try extra hard to call during the day?
posted by bobobox at 4:04 PM on February 1, 2017


We definitely need to have some sort of pool to guess the first place that Trump actually does invade. Mexico? Iran? Chicago?


I'm in for Yemen.
Reasons. His first Op was an embarassment. He has something more two prove. There has been talk floating around that pre-Trump Yemen was being looked at as a growing threat.
A Saudi Frigate was suicide ship bombed by what looks like militants from Yeman and a group that is supposedly back by Iran. So they get or think they're getting at Ira. Or at least that's the info is floating around out there. Also, and I think this may be propaganda but this admin isn't exactly know for not using other people propaganda, some US officials feel like the intended target was an American ship or it was a test run for doing the same thing to American ships.

So yeah my vote is for a non-war war with forces going into Yemen because AlQueda is now a huge threat there that must be stopped.
posted by Jalliah at 4:04 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


"You have a bunch of bad hombres down there"

Just like wow. I don't even want to think about the kind of language he'd use with Xi Jinping etc. etc. etc.
posted by rosswald at 4:04 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


I mean, that quote has to be fake right? It has to be. Like, for my sanity it must be fake. I guess the problem is that if you go around publicly saying "bad hombres" and threatening to invade other countries, people are likely to believe you say the same stuff privately too. And he can deny it all you want, but the inevitable consequence of behaving horribly in public is that people will believe pretty much anything about what you're said to do in private.
posted by zachlipton at 4:04 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


Mexico is going to teach Trump that we all survive on each other's mercy, even the greatest of us from the least of us. I bet there's not going to be much cooperation on suppressing the drug trade from Mexico going forward...
posted by Coventry at 4:05 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Question re: calling reps: Is it worth it to call after hours (and leave a voicemail) or should I try extra hard to call during the day?
My understanding is that business hours is better, but leaving a voicemail is better than nothing.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:05 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


From the AP article:

The phone call between the leaders was intended to patch things up between the new president and his ally.


Oops?
posted by diogenes at 4:05 PM on February 1, 2017 [21 favorites]


Trump to focus counter-extremism program solely on Islam

White people can't be terrorists, by definition! It's not like any attacks inside the US have been committed by rightwing extremists! Not one I tell you!
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:06 PM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


I mean, if he was going to focus on white extremists, he'd be investigating his own administration.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:06 PM on February 1, 2017 [47 favorites]


We definitely need to have some sort of pool to guess the first place that Trump actually does invade

Given,
Donald Trump’s long history of clashes with Native Americans

and

'Over my dead body': tribe aims to block Trump's border wall on Arizona land

(both previously posted on this or previous thread)

I am thinking Native American territory is also a possibility. If the Keystone pipeline doesn't already constitute that.
posted by Buntix at 4:06 PM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


Seriously, after everything that has happened in the last 10 days, some of you are actually saying, "Pfffft, I'm sure he doesn't REALLY LITERALLY mean he'd invade Mexico"?

YES HE LITERALLY DOES MEAN IT.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:06 PM on February 1, 2017 [73 favorites]


Is there a way to send President Nieto flowers or something?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:06 PM on February 1, 2017 [15 favorites]


"You have a bunch of bad hombres down there," Trump told Pena Nieto, according to the excerpt seen by the AP. "You aren't doing enough to stop them. I think your military is scared. Our military isn't, so I just might send them down to take care of it."


The World's greatest negotiator speaks.

I'm trying imagine Nieto when he hung up the phone. I mean what the hell do you do with that?
posted by Jalliah at 4:07 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


- Question re: calling reps: Is it worth it to call after hours (and leave a voicemail) or should I try extra hard to call during the day?

- My understanding is that business hours is better, but leaving a voicemail is better than nothing.

Thanks ArbitraryAndCapricious, that's what I suspected.
posted by bobobox at 4:08 PM on February 1, 2017


Mexican government denying the report

I'm imagining all kinds of 12-dimensional chess scenarios where this was faked to discredit the media and everything, but Trump's Razor would still point toward it being true.
posted by zachlipton at 4:09 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


what the hell do you do with that?

You start configuring your country for autarchy and military defense.
posted by Coventry at 4:09 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


We definitely need to have some sort of pool to guess the first place that Trump actually does invade. Mexico? Iran? Chicago?

Also China, and some uses of force in Yemen and Syria. But no, it will be sending the National Guard to Chicago. Remember, America first.
posted by rosswald at 4:09 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]



I wonder how soon and over what issue he is going to threaten to invade Canada over. It almost a given that he's going to do it and some point.
posted by Jalliah at 4:10 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Surely threatening to use our armed forces to invade another sovereign country to deal with "bad hombres" is an impeachable offense, no?
posted by vverse23 at 4:10 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


"You have a bunch of bad hombres down there," Trump told Pena Nieto, according to the excerpt seen by the AP. "You aren't doing enough to stop them. I think your military is scared. Our military isn't, so I just might send them down to take care of it."

He just fucking threatened to invade Mexico as an occupying force.
posted by Talez at 4:11 PM on February 1, 2017 [15 favorites]


The Mexico call is, unfortunately, completely believable. Trump hates being told what to do and him thinking this is just negotiating a hard deal -- hey Mexico guy, you do realize we have the bigliest military ever right? Of course he didn't ask -- it would never have occurred to him to ask -- any of the actual diplomats whether this might be a good idea or not, because Trump ideas are always the best ideas. It's quite possible that nobody has been able to or even tried to explain what a faux pas it was.

The Mexicans are of course going to participate in any denial because there is no benefit to them at all in admitting POTUS threatened them with invasion, which would be highly embarrassing for everybody. I suspect high level people on both sides were in contact within milliseconds of that exchange making assurances that nobody would actually follow through on such a threat, no matter what Emperor Trump orders.

I think this pushes the countdown toward Trump doing something that pushes a critical mass of his own people into removing him from months down to weeks, though.
posted by Bringer Tom at 4:11 PM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


Surely threatening to use our armed forces to invade another sovereign country to deal with "bad hombres" is an impeachable offense, no?

Or trigger the 25th amendment.
posted by diogenes at 4:12 PM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


Does this mean Mexico will not be accepting American refugees?
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 4:12 PM on February 1, 2017 [20 favorites]


I mean, the Mexican government has to deny it whether it's real or fake, because if it's real, they would have to admit that their extremely heavily armed neighbor just threatened to invade and they...cancelled a meeting in response.
posted by zachlipton at 4:13 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


You start configuring your country for autarchy and military defense.

Oh and maybe, "Oh hey China you know how last month we were just talking about trade..yeah could we broaden the range of topics now? K-thx"
posted by Jalliah at 4:14 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Does this mean Mexico will not be accepting American refugees?

If your social media checks out, you'll be good. A metafilter account is pretty much as good as a visa.
posted by Coventry at 4:14 PM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


Surely threatening to use our armed forces to invade another sovereign country to deal with "bad hombres" is an impeachable offense, no?

Fuck impeached: committed.

Remember how we thought 2016 was bad, you know, like 31 days ago...
posted by Buntix at 4:14 PM on February 1, 2017 [26 favorites]


Okay so he's going to dodge all questions of eminent domain by planning to build That Fucking Wall on the Mexican side of the border, right?
posted by books for weapons at 4:14 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


-- The US president "said he would not permit the drugs coming from Mexico to continue massacring our cities," Estevez added.

1) So Mr. Businessman can't quite figure out a way to stop the drugs with market forces?
2) Has he talked with the CIA about drugs in cities?
posted by rough ashlar at 4:14 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


Besides, it's not like invading Mexico would even work, what with that impenetrable border wall and all.
posted by ckape at 4:15 PM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


And he really does think he's some kind of 80s mafioso. That's a nice country you got there...be a shame if anything happened to it.

Oh Christ, I just realized he's angling for a slice of the drug money and probably figures EPN is as corrupt as he is, because aren't all heads of state lining their pockets?
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 4:16 PM on February 1, 2017 [16 favorites]


Commander Spicer, yes this is Gretel Gravy from Graveside News. I have heard a rumor that Frederick Douglass is being recognized by more and more people because the Oval Office has received a new bust for Black History month. Can you confirm? Also will the Martin Luther King bust be removed to make way for the new bust?

Commander Spicer this is Nancy Nuttle with Nuttle News. Could you comment on the plan to help Mexico with the Bad Hombres? How many troops will you be sending? Will they be allowed to keep the oil?

Commander Spicer this is Fritz Fried with Fried Hot Takes. I'm wondering what the White House has planned for President's Day and if the plans include a cake? Will there be party hats and gift bags and should we bring presents for the President?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:16 PM on February 1, 2017 [25 favorites]


I'm going to take the "No One Would Have Thought of it, But in Hindsight it Makes Perfect Sense Because: Russia" pick and say he's going to invade Finland.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 4:16 PM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


I mean, the Mexican government has to deny it whether it's real or fake, because if it's real, they would have to admit that their extremely heavily armed neighbor just threatened to invade and they...cancelled a meeting in response.

Wasn't this call supposed to have happen after the meeting? This was supposed to fix things.
posted by Jalliah at 4:16 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm trying imagine Nieto when he hung up the phone. I mean what the hell do you do with that?

I like to picture Nieto rolling his eyes and making jerkoff gestures whenever Trump was speaking.

I mean, I know he wasn't, but I like the version in my head better.
posted by bibliowench at 4:16 PM on February 1, 2017 [57 favorites]


no, it will be sending the National Guard to Chicago

Nope, he's going to send the National Guard after the tribal #DAPL protestors. And I very much fear that someone is going to die.
posted by suelac at 4:17 PM on February 1, 2017 [22 favorites]


I'm actually currently writing Sen. Feinstein in part to call for an investigation into whether CBP behaved illegally at the airports, since there are reports that they didn't let lawful residents see lawyers and that they may have pressured detainees into signing away their rights.

I did this too after the chaos of the weekend -- calling my Senators Murray and Cantwell and Rep DelBene (who thankfully is taking the CBP actions fairly seriously) to alert them to the CBP union stance, and *then* following up with emails outlining my concerns and calling for an investigation, telling them I'd be following up.

I think, and sorry to call back to the bunk "headfake" stance, but stuff like this is what is lost on the author of that piece. I (and so many others) are already mounting multi-modal resistance to actions like the executive order. We *have* to, this isn't just theoretical or some abstract thought exercise. I'm a green card holder myself, and the implications of a sudden overturn in the legal acceptance of that document, enforced illegally by CBP, and with no power from the judiciary branch to stop it -- that realization hits me immediately. So while some folks like that guy are putting out their hot takes stuck in time-delayed resistance 101 "protest itself isn't enough," there are far more who have long since moved past that. A bunch of the reports about CBP actions came from people on the ground, and I think it's this groundswell of action and dissemination of information that's helping all of us in the pushback against actions like this.
posted by orbit-3 at 4:18 PM on February 1, 2017 [22 favorites]


It was Mexico we invaded in It Can't Happen Here, but only because the technology didn't exist in 1935 for us to practically invade a target 10,000 miles away. It would still be a lot cheaper than invading other targets because of the proximity and of course they have no nuclear deterrent. But invading Mexico really would require so many human moving parts I really can't believe it would be done even if Trump gave the order.

Berzelius Windrip wasn't a billionaire but he does resemble Trump in a lot of other ways, particularly being a stupid blowhard who is persuasive without being very knowledgeable, and who really intends to implement the wacky shit on his campaign platform until the "underlings" who are really running the show correct him. The parallels between the real-life Bannon and the fictional Lee Sarason are downright terrifying.
posted by Bringer Tom at 4:21 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm trying imagine Peña Nieto when he hung up the phone. I mean what the hell do you do with that?

I like to picture Peña Nieto rolling his eyes and making jerkoff gestures whenever Trump was speaking.

I mean, I know he wasn't, but I like the version in my head better.



This is why in these days with cameras everywhere I would make a bad President because while in my brain I'd be horrified I would definitely be doing this.
posted by Jalliah at 4:21 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Just a quick word on Spanish naming conventions, Enrique Peña Nieto's last name is Peña Nieto. If you have to shorten it Peña is the more customary choice.
posted by peeedro at 4:21 PM on February 1, 2017 [53 favorites]


Just a quick word on Spanish naming conventions, Enrique Peña Nieto's last name is Peña Nieto. If you have to shorten it Peña is the more customary choice.

Thank you!
posted by Jalliah at 4:23 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


I am running out of words to describe trump, his actions, or my feelings about him. Before I press 'Post Comment' here I just stare blankly at the screen for awhile, maybe add a word or two that doesn't come close to articulating what I am really thinking and then post.
posted by futz at 4:24 PM on February 1, 2017 [23 favorites]


You know how history books end up compressing and simplifying history. Like when you're in 7th grade, you end up with the impression that WW1 started because somebody shot Archduke Fedinand, or the US lost the Vietnam War because of the Tet Offensive. Every day, I wonder if I'm reading the event that will be used to explain the downfall of Trump. Like, everything was fine, but then Trump threatened to invade Mexico to root out "bad hombres," and the wheels came off.

(I don't think this is actually it. But I do think that there's a good chance that some event in the near future becomes "it.")
posted by diogenes at 4:26 PM on February 1, 2017 [18 favorites]


I'm trying imagine Nieto when he hung up the phone. I mean what the hell do you do with that?

If I was Peña Nieto I would invite every American doing business in Mexico-- including all those mysterious Trump friends who have apparently built a million plants by now because Mexico is "the Eighth Wonder of the World"-- and ask them what the fuck they were going to do about this threat.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:28 PM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


I'm still pulling for damnatio memoriae
posted by ckape at 4:28 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


So Reddit banned /r/altright and /r/alternativeright.

/r/t_d still stands as a beacon of hate and a monument to how shitty the human race can be.
posted by Talez at 4:29 PM on February 1, 2017 [35 favorites]


yeah /r/t_d will be allowed to exist until it literally causes somebody's death, which will probably be soon.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:30 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Joe and Jill Biden to launch charitable foundation. “We look forward to this new chapter where we will continue our work to ensure that everyone — no matter their income level, race, gender, age, or sexuality — is treated with dignity and gets a fair shot at achieving the American Dream,” the couple said in a statement.
posted by argonauta at 4:31 PM on February 1, 2017 [27 favorites]




The Old Gray Lady, god love 'em, thinks that stats and reason are going to help in this time of Trump:

Homegrown Extremists Tied to Deadlier Toll Than Jihadists in U.S. Since 9/11

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:32 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


So basically anyone who says no to this fuckup gets a military threat but we can't fight as many fronts as he's already saber rattling with, especially combined with our current military commitments... When most of the world starts saying no he's going to look weak as hell lobbing blustery threats and I don't even want to think about how chaotic he'll be then.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:33 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


If I was Peña Nieto I would invite every American doing business in Mexico-- including all those mysterious Trump friends who have apparently built a million plants by now because Mexico is "the Eighth Wonder of the World"-- and ask them what the fuck they were going to do about this threat.

I'm also thinking that you come up with a strategy that includes someone accidentally leaking a transcript of the the call and then deny it. I don't think this is an embarrassment for Mexico. Most of the rest of the world is going to see just how nutz and dangerous Trump is. Mexico has done nothing whatsoever wrong here, they're dealing with a madman.
If true this is a power play as it undermines Trump. It's just one more, very serious thing, to add to the pile.
If not true and 'fake' then someone out there is trying to do the same thing.
posted by Jalliah at 4:34 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


So Reddit banned /r/altright and /r/alternativeright.

.....Really? Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:34 PM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


In which Sheryl Sandberg channels her inner Aaron Burr and tries to avoid taking any kind of a stand: Sheryl Sandberg Explains Why Silicon Valley Won’t Confront Trump
At times Sandberg looked like a shruggie in human form, albeit a chic and professional version, thigh-high boots crossed, lifting her shoulders and holding her palms up when Swisher pressed her on issues like why one of tech’s most famous feminists didn’t attend the Women’s March or if Sandberg would one day run for president (a firm-ish no).

Swisher was clearly skeptical about the effectiveness of working with Trump. Is dialogue working if Trump’s policies all seem to contradict Silicon Valley’s values? “I think it’s early — I can’t sit on this stage and predict (and predict) what will happen,” Sandberg said, seeming flustered. “I have to remain hopeful. I have to remain hopeful. I have to remain [hopeful] looking at this audience of women.”
...
On stage, Sandberg returned repeatedly to the idea that it is early in the Trump administration, downplaying the frequency and aggression of Trump’s executive orders, as well as the immediate negative impact of both Trump’s appointees and policies. “I think we don’t know what’s going to be effective yet, it’s very early days of the new administration, but we know that the issues for women in leadership are real, and it is about the steps we take as a society, it’s about the public policy. It’s also about the individual steps women take.”
What possibly would make someone say "it's early" and that there's reason to remain hopeful? I assume her employees who are from or have connections to the banned countries, among others, sure as hell don't think it's early or that there's reason to be hopeful.
posted by zachlipton at 4:34 PM on February 1, 2017 [10 favorites]


It's all he's got jason. Everyone knows he is a putz. Now he is a putz with the full might of the US Military behind him. Without that, Heads of State would not even be able to listen to his rants without giggling and showing their contempt. He always used to claim that Obama was weak-- TRUMP'S MIRROR STRIKES AGAIN.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:37 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


🎶 What the world
needs now
Is guns
In schools


No not just for some
But for EEEEVVVVREEEEEEOOOOOOOOOONE🎶
posted by Existential Dread at 4:38 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Soon, you will see Douglass 'more and more

Well, as they say in the Landsraad, "Gholas going to Ghola".
posted by juiceCake at 4:39 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


What possibly would make someone say "it's early" and that there's reason to remain hopeful?

Fear of Trump and what he could do to your company if he decides he doesn't like you.
posted by Coventry at 4:40 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Where as he used to just threaten to sue, now he threatens to send troops. This is a surprisingly logical progression.
posted by valkane at 4:40 PM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


I'll accept that guns in schools are reasonable as soon as congress meets in an open-carry building.

Why should they have more security than our children?
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:41 PM on February 1, 2017 [48 favorites]


So Reddit banned /r/altright and /r/alternativeright.

.....Really? Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.


It looks like the official reason was because they were doxxing and posting people personal info.
posted by Jalliah at 4:44 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


So yesterday, shaking off almost the last of a stomach virus, I was cycling hypnotically between refreshing this thread, reading creepypastas and SCP foundation stories, and filling in my Canadian passport renewal form.

Funny how I didn't see any connection between those three activities while I was doing them.

Anyway, exploring the SCP foundation stories just now, I came across this particularly apposite one:

http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-1981 (warning: contains gruesome, violent and disturbing images as well as text, if in *any* doubt don't read)

I would say that that story perfectly captures my perception of Annoying Orange right now.
posted by tel3path at 4:44 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Not because they were fuckheads? Huh!
posted by agregoli at 4:45 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]




no, it will be sending the National Guard to Chicago
Nope, he's going to send the National Guard after the tribal #DAPL protestors.


And hopefully both sides will have some historical exposure to the ideas of the xmas truce in WWI along with protestors having mesh networks working to stream out live video/audio. (What is being done with open source tools for such streaming via low-friction things like a microSD card in a raspberry pi)

And consider using data mining to get to National Guard people NOW to remind 'em that at the end of the call-up they have to go back to the community and should act in a way community would not be ashamed of.
posted by rough ashlar at 4:45 PM on February 1, 2017


Only linking, not reading because I honestly don't give a shit:
WaPo Trump backers like his early moves: ‘It’s what executives are supposed to be’

Instead of churning out these endless paeans to the Trumpkins, I wish the media would ask them one thing, "What were you expecting that Hillary would do in the White House?" because aside from "she's a hawk who would take us to war" and "she would raise our taxes" and "she could not be trusted with National Security" and "she would take away our guns" I am racking my brain to think of anything that would be one one-hundredth as bad for the Right Wing under a Clinton Presidency as we are now experiencing under a Trump Presidency-- both in what he has done in 13 days and what he is threatening for the future. Say what you will about Clinton but if she threatened Mexico with invasion we would immediately figure that she had a brain tumor and demand she get that checked.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


[Trump] just fucking threatened to invade Mexico as an occupying force.

Department of Symbolism: This week (February 7th, 1917) marks the centenary of the USA's withdrawal from Mexico after its defeat at the Battle of Carrizal.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:49 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


Is there some way we can wrestle cuck away from the alt right? Make it be the universal word for marmosets or something?
posted by INFJ at 4:51 PM on February 1, 2017


Is there some way we can wrestle cuck away from the alt right?

I'd much rather work to take Social Justice Warrior back, frankly.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:54 PM on February 1, 2017 [18 favorites]


What possibly would make someone say "it's early" and that there's reason to remain hopeful?

If not political expediency, then the same things that make people say, "When Trump is impeached" or "They'll remove him with the 25th Amendment in a year or so." Denial. Desperation. Evens deficit.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:54 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Another foreign leader call report: No ‘G’day, mate’: On call with Australian prime minister, Trump badgers and brags
It should have been one of the most congenial calls for the new commander in chief — a conversation with the leader of Australia, one of America’s staunchest allies, at the end of a triumphant week.

Instead, President Trump blasted Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull over a refu­gee agreement and boasted about the magnitude of his electoral college win, according to senior U.S. officials briefed on the Saturday exchange. Then, 25 minutes into what was expected to be an hour-long call, Trump abruptly ended it.

At one point Trump informed Turnbull that he had spoken with four other world leaders that day — including Russian President Vladi­mir Putin — and that, “This was the worst call by far.”
posted by zachlipton at 4:54 PM on February 1, 2017 [63 favorites]


If signed, the order would create wholesale exemptions for people and organizations who claim religious objections to same-sex marriage, premarital sex, abortion, and trans identity.

Premarital sex! This from a man who boasted for his entire adult life about his sexual hook-ups before, during, and after marriage. It's insane. Does he even read this shit? Maybe he thinks that being President "there can be no conflict."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:55 PM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


It looks like the official reason [reddit banned alt-right subreddits] was because they were doxxing and posting people personal info.

Hey, technically Al Capone was brought down for tax fraud and not for murder. I'll take it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:55 PM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


the nice thing about ceding stuff like "cuck" (not sure why we'd want that back tbh) or Pepe to the alt-right is that they're very diligent about openly and frequently using such signifiers to self-identify as complete fucking tools
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:57 PM on February 1, 2017 [50 favorites]


A leaked copy of a draft executive order titled “Establishing a Government-Wide Initiative to Respect Religious Freedom,” obtained by The Investigative Fund and The Nation, reveals sweeping plans by the Trump administration to legalize discrimination.

And there it is, the thing that finally makes me a Satanist for the resistance.
posted by lydhre at 4:57 PM on February 1, 2017 [18 favorites]


At one point Trump informed Turnbull that he had spoken with four other world leaders that day — including Russian President Vladi­mir Putin — and that, “This was the worst call by far.”

Head: Desk.

That's it. I'm taking a mental health break for 30 minutes or so while I knit a pussy hat and listen to the Resist spotify list.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:58 PM on February 1, 2017 [21 favorites]


These leaks about foreign leader calls have to be the last ditch effort of somebody at the State Department to do something to stop this, or at least publicly undermine the President to reduce the amount of foreign policy damage he can cause.
posted by zachlipton at 4:59 PM on February 1, 2017 [20 favorites]


The leaked draft of the religious discrimination order is going to be overturned by every court with even a shred of integrity, as it provides protections to some religious beliefs but not others. The key passage: it doesn't allow feds to penalize anyone based on any
belief that marriage is or should be recognized as the union of one man and one woman, sexual relations are properly reserved for such a marriage, male and female and their equivalents refer to an individual’s immutable biological sex as objectively determined by anatomy, physiology, or genetics at or before birth, and that human life begins at conception and merits protection at all stages of life.
However, it doesn't allow protections for a deep religious belief that marriage should be between one man and four women, or that male and female are not determined by external anatomy at birth, or that life does not begin at conception.

However, until the ACLU has time to challenge it, it'll allow for an awful lot of discrimination and harassment. I'm not sure it doesn't attempt to decriminalize assault and murder.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:59 PM on February 1, 2017 [18 favorites]


yeah /r/t_d will be allowed to exist until it literally causes somebody's death, which will probably be soon.

This is where it does get kinda amusing. Was reading the reaction in one of the white guy subs and there are people that think it was t_d's fault that they got banned. That it was t_d that complained about alt righters doxxing them.
posted by Jalliah at 4:59 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


I guess you could solve the problems of illegal immigration by making Mexico a client state of the US and grant statutory citizenship, or some documented but not really citizenship status. Would solve the whole moving manufacturers out of the US thing if Mexico is actually part of the US. Would solve the problem of paying for the border wall because if the US and Mexico are the same nation, then technically Mexico would be paying for the wall no matter where the taxes come from.

Yes, this is about as likely to happen as... wait. Okay, it's likely to happen as... hmmm...
posted by Mister Cheese at 5:00 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


At one point Trump informed Turnbull that he had spoken with four other world leaders that day

For the time being Australia will eat whatever shit Trump dishes up, though. It is utterly dependent on the US for its military defense.
posted by Coventry at 5:01 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


the nice thing about ceding stuff like "cuck" (not sure why we'd want that back tbh) or Pepe to the alt-right is that they're very diligent about openly and frequently using such signifiers to self-identify as complete fucking tools

I just got finished reading a big long thread about how now t_d is a bunch of traitors and cucks and were never real allies in the first place.
posted by Jalliah at 5:02 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


For the time being Australia will eat whatever shit Trump dishes up, though. It is utterly dependent on the US for its military defense.

Not necessarily. It is utterly dependent on China for trade.
posted by Talez at 5:02 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


the nice thing about ceding stuff like "cuck" (not sure why we'd want that back tbh) or Pepe to the alt-right is that they're very diligent about openly and frequently using such signifiers to self-identify as complete fucking tools

I just would love the deep irony of taking the word away from them.

These people are turning me into a horribly mean person.
posted by INFJ at 5:03 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


These leaks about foreign leader calls have to be the last ditch effort of somebody at the State Department to do something to stop this, or at least publicly undermine the President to reduce the amount of foreign policy damage he can cause.

That was my take too: that diplomatic staff are shocked and/or worried enough by these calls to leak fairly substantial details of their content.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 5:04 PM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


and merits protection at all stages of life...

Again, showing their utter incompetence. They forgot "until said life is out of the womb wherein said life is subject to extreme exploitation and indentured servitude".
posted by juiceCake at 5:04 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Another foreign leader call report: No ‘G’day, mate’: On call with Australian prime minister, Trump badgers and brags

omfg. I read the fucking article. I'm so fucking embarrassed for this country. We're sorry, Australians.


Well, it doesn't sound like our wet blanket bootlicking excuse for a prime minster covered himself in glory in that call.

Mal was trying to convince Trump to honour an Obama-era deal to accept refugees that we have held in unlawful detention in not one but two island prisons in reprehensible conditions.

We're sorry too.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:09 PM on February 1, 2017 [18 favorites]


Instead of churning out these endless paeans to the Trumpkins, I wish the media would ask them one thing, "What were you expecting that Hillary would do in the White House?"

She'd be a woman.
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 5:11 PM on February 1, 2017 [33 favorites]


A leaked copy of a draft executive order titled “Establishing a Government-Wide Initiative to Respect Religious Freedom,” obtained by The Investigative Fund and The Nation, reveals sweeping plans by the Trump administration to legalize discrimination.

My god, the sheer amount of vicious, benighted, psychopathic bigotry and hate it takes to even write something like that, let alone contemplate executing it, is just staggering. They should call it the Westboro Order.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:12 PM on February 1, 2017 [33 favorites]


I want Obama back.

The worst thing you could say about him doesn't come close to the worst thing you could say about any other president during my lifetime. He was the least bad president I can remember. I didn't even find him personally repellent, which for a politician is really saying something.

He also wouldn't phone up Mexico and call them a bunch of bad hombres.

Michelle please run for office. Please.

can you imagine how relieved the world's leaders would be to see her hove into view. no matter what they *thought* they thought of her before, they would just not be able to hold back from presenting her with their entire nation's annual flower harvest, tied with a bow.
posted by tel3path at 5:13 PM on February 1, 2017 [18 favorites]


I am racking my brain to think of anything that would be one one-hundredth as bad for the Right Wing under a Clinton Presidency as we are now experiencing under a Trump Presidency

She was going to sit behind the desk and get girl cooties all over the oval office. Say it with me: eewwwwww!
posted by Dashy at 5:13 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


The leaked draft of the religious discrimination order is going to be overturned by every court with even a shred of integrity, as it provides protections to some religious beliefs but not others.

It has been made clear now that courts can't functionally overturn executive orders anymore.
posted by kafziel at 5:14 PM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


Can I just say
that I would like to fill Jason Chaffetz with bees
All the bees
From his eyes to his toes
From his butt to his nose.

I like this image because he is from Utah
The beehive state
He just needs to sit on a beehive once
and then the bees come in.
Oh, he makes me so, so very angry.
Go, team bees.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:15 PM on February 1, 2017 [63 favorites]


My god, the sheer amount of vicious, benighted, psychopathic bigotry and hate it takes to even write something like that, let alone contemplate executing it, is just staggering

And yet, not surprised. I didn't believe the administration's statement that they were leaving the Obama LGBT protections in place, but I admit I'm a bit startled they are going after the general public rather than just attacking the federal workforce and contractors.
posted by suelac at 5:15 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


I've kinda hoping that Cheeto Hitler and Rodrigo "Kill all the drug users" Duterte would detest each other, because we could save millions of lives if we could get them too busy screaming insults at each other in the press and on Twitter to do anything else.

But no, Trump and Duterte are totally going to be besties; they are going to braid each other's hair and trade tips on fancy ways to murder us all as they bond over how much of weak cuck Obama is.
posted by nicebookrack at 5:15 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


The leaked draft of the religious discrimination order is going to be overturned by every court with even a shred of integrity, as it provides protections to some religious beliefs but not others.

Sure, every court except the one with the Hobby Lobby guy on it.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:16 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]




It has been made clear now that courts can't functionally overturn executive orders anymore.

It is not quite at that point. The USG has accepted service of the suits, apparently, and no one has gotten a contempt order from a judge yet regarding the varying reported levels of CBP recalcitrance.

Is there some way we can wrestle cuck away from the alt right? Make it be the universal word for marmosets or something?

Some people are saying that Donald Trump is a literal cuckold.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 5:18 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Department of Symbolism: This week (February 7th, 1917) marks the centenary of the USA's withdrawal from Mexico after its defeat at the Battle of Carrizal.

Additionally, we're one month shy of 70 years since President Truman finally patched up the negative relations lingering since the Mexican-American War. Truman was motivated to secure Mexico as a cold war ally, but acted with grace and humility that is foreign to President Trump. Truman made a surprise visit to the Niños Héroes memorial, a monument to six military cadets, children, who chose to die at their posts rather than surrender to US forces in the Battle of Chapultepec. Truman laid a wreath and said "Brave men don't belong to any one country. I respect bravery wherever I see it."
The story created an immediate sensation in the city, filling the papers with eight-column, banner headlines. "Rendering Homage to the Heroes of '47, Truman Heals an Old National Wound Forever," read one. "Friendship Began Today," said another. A cab driver told an American reporter, "To think that the most powerful man in the world would come and apologize." He wanted to cry himself, the driver said. A prominent Mexican engineer was quoted: "One hundred years of misunderstanding and bitterness wiped out by one man in one minute. This is the best neighbor policy."

President Truman, declared Mexican President Miguel Alemán, was "the new champion of solidarity and understanding among the American republics."
It really shows that Trump is a weak man acting strong when you look at how simple gestures can become the cornerstone of international alliances.
posted by peeedro at 5:19 PM on February 1, 2017 [62 favorites]


For the time being Australia will eat whatever shit Trump dishes up, though. It is utterly dependent on the US for its military defense.

Not necessarily. It is utterly dependent on China for trade.


Uhh, don't be so sure. China is ascendant, the US is circiling the drain led by an insane madman. They're already worried about what to do. If we force Australia to choose between the US and China (for why, again?) we may not like the answer.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:20 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Australia's Prime Minister, bless him and all who sail in him, was quick to announce that they had secured an exemption from the anti-Muslim EO for for Australian passport holders: [link to official PM website]

It now turns out that this was not true, except possibly to provide greater certainty for Australian dual nationals visiting the USA, "at least for a period around Tuesday". But he got to kiss Trump's ring, so you know.

Link to story: Australia has not been given a preferential 'exemption' from Donald Trump's US visa ban
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:20 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


lol i put in my [expedited] passport application w/ doc's letter to set my gender marker a certain way yesterday and i keep wondering if i'm gonna get a passport out of this or not.

we shall see!
posted by beefetish at 5:21 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


The only meme I'm interested in taking back from the alt-right is the Guy Fawkes mask from their trolling overlap with Anonymous, because if I have to fucking live through original Alan Moore-flavored V for Vendetta, I would at least like to get looking stylish out of it.
posted by nicebookrack at 5:23 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


I can't shake the feeling that of everything he's done so far, the seating of Gorsuch (and whoever the next immortal demilich will be) will push us the most irrevocably toward eventual fragmentation/balkanization.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:23 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


all my trumpy acquaintances are so. fucking. stoked. i am observing - but don't really get - how this strong-arm crazy bullshit gives them a throbbing (gender-neutral) stiffy. they *like* how this is going. ???
posted by j_curiouser at 5:24 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


In past years I've joked about forgetting to send Barack Obama a President's Day card. This year I think I may actually send him a card for real, if I can only figure out what mailing address to use.
posted by ckape at 5:24 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Howard at least got a ridiculously good treaty visa (E-3) for sucking Bush's dick and joining the coalition of the willing.
posted by Talez at 5:25 PM on February 1, 2017






Link to story: Australia has not been given a preferential 'exemption' from Donald Trump's US visa ban

Greg Miller and Philip Rucker at The Washington Post: “No ‘G’day, mate’: On call with Australian prime minister, Trump badgers and brags”
posted by Going To Maine at 5:29 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


This Is Just To Say

I have torn up
the Constitution
that was in
your history

and which
you were probably
counting on
for humanity

Forgive me
I'm a narcissist
so orange
and so cold
posted by uosuaq at 5:29 PM on February 1, 2017 [98 favorites]


all my trumpy acquaintances are so. fucking. stoked. i am observing - but don't really get - how this strong-arm crazy bullshit gives them a throbbing (gender-neutral) stiffy. they *like* how this is going. ???
One of the fascinating things about this whole mess is how completely resistant people are to the possibility that the reason their friends and family members enjoy watching the actions of a fascist is that their friends and family members are themselves fascists. Like, you get that the Nazis were people's nice, helpful neighbors, too, right?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:31 PM on February 1, 2017 [72 favorites]


prize bull octorok: "the nice thing about ceding stuff like "cuck" (not sure why we'd want that back tbh) or Pepe to the alt-right is that they're very diligent about openly and frequently using such signifiers to self-identify as complete fucking tools"

It's all like, "Please allow me to try to insult you by revealing my own deeply personal psycho-sexual vulnerabilities tinged with racism." I mean, seriously dudes? If the people using "cuck" weren't all so uniformly dirt-bags, I'd almost feel embarrassed for them.
posted by mhum at 5:32 PM on February 1, 2017 [18 favorites]


Sen. Flake's voicemail is full. There's been a push to hit him hard to vote against DeVos.
posted by azpenguin at 5:32 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


At one point Trump informed Turnbull that he had spoken with four other world leaders that day — including Russian President Vladi­mir Putin — and that, “This was the worst call by far.”


and the ongoing victory of the MRA/PUA/Gamergate axis continues, as "negging" becomes a goddamn superpower's primary diplomatic tactic

satire is dead but they keep digging it up and shooting it in the face anyway
posted by murphy slaw at 5:32 PM on February 1, 2017 [32 favorites]


all my trumpy acquaintances are so. fucking. stoked. i am observing - but don't really get - how this strong-arm crazy bullshit gives them a throbbing (gender-neutral) stiffy. they *like* how this is going. ???

US global empire has always been in tension with the parochial population. Most of the US has never been out of the country, and half the ones who have, have only been on a Carnival cruise to Bermuda. Or maybe on active duty in Iraq. To those people foreign affairs only boils down to "Murica', Fuck Yea!" Those people love Trump putting other countries in their place, like we don't need anyone else to achieve our various aims around the globe and can somehow dominate every other country in the world simultaneously. As a starter for the Trump Doctrine, 'Murica, Fuck Yea! is pretty accurate so far.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:34 PM on February 1, 2017 [10 favorites]


i must admit i am morbidly curious about exactly how bad this is going get: disappearings? insurrection in the streets? dissolution of the union? invasion by foreign powers? nuclear armageddon?

i keep expecting to wake up from this nightmare, and find myself 10 years old again and safe in my empire strikes back jammies
posted by entropicamericana at 5:34 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


If Hillary became president, right now, we would be watching with horror as the Republican party tore her to shreds, probably arresting her. The rot just runs too deep.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:35 PM on February 1, 2017 [18 favorites]


i keep expecting to wake up from this nightmare, and find myself 10 years old again and safe in my empire strikes back jammies


when i was ten years old in Empire jammies, we had a different demented idiot with his finger on the button so that scenario isn't really soothing to me
posted by murphy slaw at 5:36 PM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


yes but we survived that one
posted by entropicamericana at 5:37 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


We're about 400 comments from melting down this thread. If you want to collaborate on what may be the introduction to the next one, I've set up an editor for it here.
posted by Coventry at 5:38 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


j_curiouser: "all my trumpy acquaintances are so. fucking. stoked. i am observing - but don't really get - how this strong-arm crazy bullshit gives them a throbbing (gender-neutral) stiffy. they *like* how this is going. ???"

I saw something on Twitter to the effect that, among many on the Right, the goal is not necessarily to, say, screw over immigrants or perpetuate global warming or whatever. Rather, the goal was simply to piss off the liberal elite. Everything else is secondary.
posted by mhum at 5:39 PM on February 1, 2017 [15 favorites]


reports from the field for cheap laffs:

omg lmao guys someone im hobby friends with is like "u know, i just don't feel like much has happened yet. i dont know why people are getting so mad and worried. lets wait until some things actually happen ok?"

also someone i know was like "uh oh people are really mad at the united states right now...you better be careful if you travel" in response to my passport get

also idk if youve seen this or not yet but guy is selling t-shirts of a kool aid man doing what kool aid man does saying "fuck your bullshit wall"= just sayin

im done here nobody fuck up the country too bad until i look at a computer again
posted by beefetish at 5:40 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


One of the fascinating things about this whole mess is how completely resistant people are to the possibility that the reason their friends and family members enjoy watching the actions of a fascist is that their friends and family members are themselves fascists. Like, you get that the Nazis were people's nice, helpful neighbors, too, right?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:31 PM on February 1


The problem is that the word "fascist" has been over-used on conspiracy-minded websites over the past 8 years to describe obama. (in that alt-reality) So now when the orange-fascist is in power, they see it as being ANTI-establishment/fascist.

This eerily reminds me of the Chinese protests of 1989, when the protesters were described as "counter-revolutionaries." The communist govt was brought about by revolution to overthrow the elites, so all citizens were revolutionaries. Some people totally bought that. (And now no one even remembers 1989.)

Anyway, some of us have to live with our trumpists and keep our children away from their brainwashing while relying on them for other things (being a dad, for example), and the idea of them being ok with fascism would make survival with them impossible.
posted by Sallysings at 5:41 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Rather, the goal was simply to piss off the liberal elite. Everything else is secondary.

I 100% believe this. It's the intersection of Spite meets Fuck You I've Got Mine meets Let's Fuck Shit Up. They're more than happy to flip the table, even if it means they'll have to eat off of the floor. :/
posted by skye.dancer at 5:45 PM on February 1, 2017 [28 favorites]


In rather more trivial news: Donald Trump’s Longtime Doctor Says President Takes Hair-Growth Drug
posted by rewil at 5:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


If you want to collaborate on what may be the introduction to the next one, I've set up an editor for it here.

Seems collabedit is broken now. I'll try to find something more reliable, and run this experiment again in the next thread.

Thanks to those who participated.
posted by Coventry at 5:49 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm not caught up on this thread at all, having given myself a mental health break yesterday. But to the Australia thing, I have this to add:

The other day, my brother said Trump would use the refugee agreement to pull Australia into line with the current, vile US executive branch. Basically that the threat of the embarrassment of failing to complete the transfer would shock Turnbull's government into capitulation.

My response was that it wouldn't make a rat's ass difference on either side. The LNP are so far up their own asses and used to dissembling any failure as an intended success, that they'll just roll with whatever outcome happens. Then blather that it's all Labor's fault, or that strong countries should all keep those brown, muslim trouble makers in check.

It's vile, it's racist, it's inhumane, it's most certainly illegal both here and the US.

If the Turnbull government had a true humane backbone (Hah! I know). It would bring all the current people in detention to the mainland and begin processing the verified refugees into communities. That would be the appropriate response to Trump's idiocy.

Everything about this makes me ill.
posted by michswiss at 5:52 PM on February 1, 2017 [19 favorites]


"I saw something on Twitter to the effect that, among many on the Right, the goal is not necessarily to, say, screw over immigrants or perpetuate global warming or whatever. Rather, the goal was simply to piss off the liberal elite. Everything else is secondary."

previously (within this thread)

(I realize that these megathreads get kinda crazy and it's impossible to track every mention of a twitter thread and I'm just posting the link in case people were wondering what the specific tweet was about)
posted by bl1nk at 6:00 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


> Reuters: Exclusive: Trump to focus counter-extremism program solely on Islam - sources: The program, "Countering Violent Extremism," or CVE, would be changed to "Countering Islamic Extremism" or "Countering Radical Islamic Extremism," the sources said, and would no longer target groups such as white supremacists who have also carried out bombings and shootings in the United States.

Charles Pierce, Jul 21, 2011: The Bomb That Didn't Go Off. Since September 11, 2001, we have finely honed our fear of the other. But the truth is, the overwhelming majority of our terrorism has always been homegrown. And it is times like these — times of anger and disaffection — when we turn on ourselves, and kill.
posted by homunculus at 6:04 PM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


Speaking of cutting trumpistas out of your life, I had to divorce from my 68 year old mom last week.

Not only was she treating me like a moron for being an "idiot liberal" and "not getting it" but when I declined a social event because I've been having some anxiety attacks lately, she told me I was an idiot for "not taking drugs for that". There was no concern for my welfare or the VERY SERIOUS life events that caused my anxiety.

I think that's pretty typical of trumpistas...very self centered with no world-view.

In any case, I've signed up with my local Dem party to volunteer or whatever they ask and also with a Dem Veterans group. I've signed a petition going to senators to fight against the Gorsuch nomination.

This is going to be a rough ride. I think it's the absurdity of this situation that is most troubling and is what makes this seem insurmountable. But life, on the grander scale, is always and nothing BUT absurd. Hang in there, do your best and don't ever give up.

We KNOW we are the majority, so let's not allow the minority of folks, who are proud of their ignorance, dictate our future.

(I've never understood how anyone could be proud of being ignorant...in my opinion willing ignorance makes one uncountable and dismissible. The R party has been cultivating ignorance for as long as I can remember...how do we make SMART cool again? It was once...I remember...)
posted by snsranch at 6:04 PM on February 1, 2017 [63 favorites]


(if you didn't get the joke about the McSweeny's article upthread, that's the actual full and unedited transcription of the speech Trump gave)
posted by flatluigi at 6:08 PM on February 1, 2017 [32 favorites]


My comeback for any use of "liberal" as a slur against anyone including my person is now, "so was Fred Rogers."

That usually shuts them up.
posted by Sallysings at 6:09 PM on February 1, 2017 [21 favorites]




but but but the military denied that...
posted by futz at 6:11 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Military convoy spotted near Louisville flying Donald Trump flag belonged to SEAL unit'

Well that makes it better.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:12 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


so I went out to dinner

and between then and now, a matter of JUST A COUPLE OF HOURS, it was revealed that Trump threatened to send military troops into Mexico, he insulted the Australian PM, a Ha Ha Suck It Non-Christians EO was leaked, and right-wing extremists will no longer be investigated by the feds

look

I can only drink SO MUCH NYQUIL in one day before it becomes a life-threatening problem

let's slow down, America

down with this sort of thing

careful now
posted by delfin at 6:18 PM on February 1, 2017 [44 favorites]


"You have a bunch of bad hombres down there," Trump told Pena Nieto, according to the excerpt seen by the AP. "You aren't doing enough to stop them. I think your military is scared. Our military isn't, so I just might send them down to take care of it."

to deport millions of people across the border, it would be essential to have military control of the other side of that border.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:19 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


@abc: Military convoy spotted near Louisville flying Donald Trump flag belonged to SEAL unit, U.S. Navy spokesperson says.

dont worry "mad dog" will calm things down
posted by entropicamericana at 6:21 PM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


So now my mom's all concerned about Milo going to Berkeley and Cal Poly. She just called me to say Berkeley shut him down or canceled him because of fires or fireworks or something (she's not clear), but she is definitely unthrilled with a bigot guy going around talking about yay bigotry. She actually said, "Well, I'm very proud of Davis for shutting them down. My little Davis."

I've got a slight bit of hope from this remark now. Maybe someday she'll get woke yet.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:23 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


So something circulating on Social Media now:

Colin Mochrie pointed out that an anagram for "Donald Trump" is "Lord Dampnut". People are now trying to spread this as the Official Alternative Name For Him.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:23 PM on February 1, 2017 [49 favorites]


.@realDonaldTrump México does the dirty work and therefore pays with blood. Your behavior, it's not presidential, learn about diplomacy.

- #1 Trump Troll Former President of Mexico Vicente Fox, 29 minutes ago.
posted by Evilspork at 6:27 PM on February 1, 2017 [52 favorites]


I've never been one to to use a cutesy nickname for the insane dictator with the power to destroy humanity but I'll be goddamned if Lord Dampnut isn't catchy.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:31 PM on February 1, 2017 [21 favorites]


"Dampnut, has always got damp balls..."
posted by Flashman at 6:32 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


The "bad hombres" thing bugs me. He keeps on using that stupid phrase. You'd think Trump could come up with something deplorable-but-plausible that doesn't immediately sound like a line from a cartoon or bad Western. But apparently it's the only thing he can think of, so he keeps repeating it. He can't even be racist without being racist.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:33 PM on February 1, 2017 [23 favorites]


the goal was simply to piss off the liberal elite. Everything else is secondary."

I read that thread this morning and it really resonated with me all day. Those are the dicks who boast about drinking from their "liberal tears" mugs and call us "snowflakes." Cutting funding for the arts and PBS and NPR are all meant to be smacks to us ivory-towered liberals and going after the poor refugees is just another way to hurt us since they can't be more direct.

It's like there was all this seething rage from the jock people just bubbling under the surface that was focused on the Nerds Triumphant. Reading is supposed to make us poor and weak, not give us satisfying careers, make us introverts with no friends rather than people with good marriages and fulfilled lives.


From the NY Times article on Dr. Bornstein:
Dr. Bornstein said that Mr. Trump had gone to his East Side office for annual checkups, colonoscopies, and other routine tests every year since 1980. Before that, Mr. Trump was a patient of Dr. Bornstein’s father, Dr. Jacob Bornstein.
Surely Trump doesn't have an annual colonoscopy? That seems a bit excessive.
Dr. Bornstein said he also took finasteride and credited it for helping maintain his own shoulder-length hair and Mr. Trump’s hair. “He has all his hair,” Dr. Bornstein said. “I have all my hair.”
Well that right there is a fucking lie. I've seen the picture of Trump getting into the helicopter and you can clearly see he has a few hair plugs on the side. Also there was the story that he raped Ivana in anger because the botched scalp reduction surgery. Did we just imagine he had a weasel stapled to his head all through the 90's and aughts?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:34 PM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


Military convoy spotted near Louisville flying Donald Trump flag belonged to SEAL unit, U.S. Navy spokesperson says.

I am not sure why this is what tipped me over into full on rage but it fucking did. The fuckers in that convoy better face some harsh repercussions. This is unacceptable and it is EXACTLY why there should be civilian oversight of the military. Fuck.
posted by futz at 6:36 PM on February 1, 2017 [32 favorites]


The Imperial Presidency 3.0: Donald Trump’s first week in office is building on and amplifying the worst trends in American presidential history.
Barely a week into his presidency, Donald Trump had already signed dozens of executive orders, each more cringeworthy than the last. His power grab partly comes from his leadership style. But we must also put his actions in the context of the longstanding history of the imperial presidency.

Trump’s presidency epitomizes a problem that has been years in the making. Richard Nixon started it, George W. Bush resurrected it, Barack Obama normalized it, and now Donald Trump is seizing and extending it.
posted by homunculus at 6:37 PM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


Did we just imagine he had a weasel stapled to his head all through the 90's and aughts?

We played Trump or Monkey?
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:38 PM on February 1, 2017




Some comfort gleaned from Terry Pratchett:

Fear is a strange soil. It grows obedience like corn, which grow in straight lines to make weeding easier. But sometimes it grows the potatoes of defiance, which flourish underground.

May it sustain me in these dark days and also dibs on Potatoes of Defiance as my new band name.
posted by lydhre at 6:40 PM on February 1, 2017 [37 favorites]




Maybe he thinks that being President "there can be no conflict."

Or "it's not illegal if you're the President." Look how well it worked for that guy.

Granted, there seem to be a lot more people ready to put up with Trump's horse as a member of the Senate than Nixon had. But he is wearing out his welcome at a rate never seen in all of US history.
posted by Bringer Tom at 6:51 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


This is fine.

@Acosta
Australian PM Turnbull not really knocking down @PhilipRucker story... just saying he's "not going to add to" report.
posted by chris24 at 6:51 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


"You have a bunch of bad gringos up there" Pena Nieto told Trump. "You aren't doing enough to stop your American gun shops who are selling 90% of the guns to the cartels. I think you are scared of the NRA. Our military isn't, so I just might send them up to take care of it."
posted by JackFlash at 6:52 PM on February 1, 2017 [60 favorites]


I had an idea about effective action but I had no idea what to do with it, maybe if its good someone here would know what to do.

I was reading this article about effective protests, and learned that the civil rights marches were so effective because they showed white people that black americans were just like them. Peaceful, intelligent, law abiding citizens who wanted nothing more than equality. They had built up an image of them as subhuman, and the marches legitimized them as human beings.

Well, our problem today is quite different, and merits a different strategy. The mass of white voters who vote Republican generally don't see liberals as subhuman. But they do feel very disrespected, ignored, and scorned by the elites. I'm not going to judge the legitimacy of their feeling, but its a very real feeling in Red America. So how to combat this? National Days of Volunteer Action.

It would be crucial to organize locally and to ensure we focus on more conservative areas. These people need to see that we care about them. They get lied to so often by Fox, Trump, and other alternative facts but if the reality of their community is city liberals showing up to renovate the park, paint the school, pick up garbage, and generally help out however possible it might be difficult for them to have such visceral reactions.

Mass protests are great. I don't think they should stop. But I can't be the only one feeling the strain of all this constant negative energy. Wouldn't it feel nice to do something positive and try to rebuild some of our lost trust and faith in citizenship? It might even convince some voters to take a second look at our proposals, cause hey... we helped their town.
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:53 PM on February 1, 2017 [42 favorites]


National Days of Volunteer Action.

For!
posted by saysthis at 6:55 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


The mass of white voters who vote Republican generally don't see liberals as subhuman.

I'm gonna stop you right there.
posted by mochapickle at 6:55 PM on February 1, 2017 [59 favorites]


Mad Milo had a public rant at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo just last night. He filled a 500-seat theater, and there were only about 150 protesters outside and no incidents although the local police was present in 'riot gear'. But then, most of the YiannOpposition, about 1200, were attending a show by W. Kamau Bell in another on-campus theater. (Also, the estimated attendance for last week's Womens March in SLO has been raised from about 7000 to closer to 10,000 - in a town of 45,000 in a county of 260,000)
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:55 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Glibpaxman, I like this idea. However I worry about execution, since we so geographically divided along political lines. In LA, I'd need to drive out to the Antelope Valley for this type of effort, and I worry it would be perceived as a weird kind of "city people think they can do everything" kind of vibe.

Maybe we can just latch on to existing projects vs generate our own.
posted by samthemander at 6:57 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


The leaks are coming from within the (White) House.

@Acosta
Source familiar with Trump foreign leader calls says the POTUS convos are turning faces "white" inside the WH.
posted by chris24 at 6:58 PM on February 1, 2017 [30 favorites]


Kim Kardashian’s Plane Searched by Officials Days After Blasting Trump’s ‘Muslim Ban’

...But amid cookie-cutter approbation from celebrities all over America, it was 36-year-old Kim’s tweet of a table of statistics to her 50 million followers highlighting the statistical fallacy of President Trump’s immigration ban, two days after its imposition, that stood head and shoulders above the rest.

During the Kardashian clan’s recent well-publicized holiday to Costa Rica, younger sister Khloe also alluded to the situation back in the U.S., tweeting her 23 million followers that “All this news breaks my heart” the day after the ban was introduced. She followed up with a retweeted ACLU poster announcing the organization was working to “block the unconstitutional ban.”

...How did Trump’s America welcome the Kardashians back home from Costa Rica?

With a raid of their private jet by immigration officials dressed in body armor, according to reports early Wednesday morning.


They had just landed at Los Angeles International when the family—including Kim, Khloe, Kourtney, Kylie, Tyga, Kris, and their children—were forced to stay inside the plane while it was “scoured” by customs and immigration officers, The Sun reports.

Photos show officials in what appears to be body armor boarding the plane; some of the family’s children were on board at the time.

It has been reported that the family spoke to Customs and Border Protection officials before leaving.

...While there’s no proof that the search is connected to Kim’s Muslim ban remarks, many are already questioning the timing.

posted by futz at 6:59 PM on February 1, 2017 [71 favorites]


The mass of white voters who vote Republican generally don't see liberals as subhuman.

Although many Republicans and their Media Mates have worked hard to sell them as subhuman. So it's not the majority, but a scary-large portion.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:59 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


You're far from the first person to suggest people should just be nice and polite in their protesting, Glibpaxman, and I think all the criticisms about it then are just as valid now.
posted by flatluigi at 7:01 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


Chris Hayes had Sen. Ben Sasse on his show tonight. Here's the video. I found it to be a fascinating discussion of partisan politics, executive power, and the erosion of institutional norms that's gotten us to this point.

The thing that really strikes me is that even someone like Sasse, who is often talked about as one of the swing votes against Trumpism and comes off as a lot more intellectual and reasonable than his GOP colleagues, is perfectly happy to whistle past the his party's outsize role in destroying those norms as long as it serves his ideological interests. He compares partisanship in Congress to a "Middle Eastern blood feud" where each side is angry that the other side did something before, but of course the most recent escalation in that feud was his own caucus refusing to give a fair hearing to a centrist judge nominated in the ultimately futile hope that the GOP would do the right thing.

Senator Sasse wasn't a bystander in this action -- he was an active participant -- but he talks about it as if it's ancient history that we just have to get over. He's now decrying the mere continuation of the partisanship that he helped escalate, and he's supposed to be one of the GOP Senators who's supposed to put up substantive opposition to Trump. This does not fill me with confidence.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:01 PM on February 1, 2017 [30 favorites]


The completely unnecessary raising of tension with Australia and Mexico must be alarming to both of the remaining employees of the State Department.
posted by jackbishop at 7:04 PM on February 1, 2017 [71 favorites]


but he talks about it as if it's ancient history that we just have to get over

Hate to point this out but that is right out of the abuser's handbook. You pop your wife in the eye and then pretend that was days ago, she should be over it by now. You follow that up by getting mad that she is not over it by now so you can pop her in the eye again.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:06 PM on February 1, 2017 [29 favorites]


You're far from the first person to suggest people should just be nice and polite in their protesting, Glibpaxman, and I think all the criticisms about it then are just as valid now.

I don't think protests should be nice and polite. Protests are about showing opposition. That almost requires being impolite. I actually think the protests so far have been pretty tame. I'm just wondering if showing opposition is the only method to effective political action. Maybe showing our opponents our vision for how the world should be would be an effective way to take control of the narrative. Like this week we protest and next week we volunteer?
posted by Glibpaxman at 7:06 PM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


The mass of white voters who vote Republican generally don't see liberals as subhuman.

Utterly disagree. Drive through the South and only listen to AM radio.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:07 PM on February 1, 2017 [24 favorites]


The completely unnecessary raising of tension with Australia and Mexico must be alarming to both of the remaining employees of the State Department.

I feel I have to protest at this unnecessary conflation of Australia and Mexico. The last thing we want down here is for Donald Trump to start building a wall between our nation and the USA.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:07 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


I don't think Glibpaxman is suggesting that the way we currently protest should be changed at all. I think they are suggesting that we do some outreach in addition to the protests. I agree that going into places where there are needs we are able to fulfill, and doing public service cheerfully and with true friendly attitudes can go a very long way towards putting a different face on "liberal elites" that people hear over and over again.

There's no reason we can't do both types of activism.
posted by hollygoheavy at 7:07 PM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


You folks remember how Republicans couldn't stop screaming about how Obama went on an "apology tour" that made us look weak or something? Funny how they don't seem to be speaking out about this President going on a telephonic insult tour that makes us look downright deranged.
posted by zachlipton at 7:09 PM on February 1, 2017 [16 favorites]


To be fair, Glibpaxman is suggesting something different from people "just being nice and polite in protesting". He's suggesting something more like community outreach and community building.

However, I'm afraid that samthemander has a legitimate concern in suggesting that such efforts may seem like "them city slickers are coming in and changing things up like they know what's good for us".

I actually have taken a page from what cybercoitous_interruptus suggested up here - every couple days I poke my nose in at the "Trump regrets" feed and I'll tweet back an encouragement to "call your senator" to someone lamenting the travel ban or Betsy DeVos or whatever. And....I've gotten thank yous and "hey, good idea"s.

But I don't think that this is working just because I'm all smart, or anything like that. I think this approach works becuase you wait to see who is open to approach, and you see what they care about -and you go for them that way. If they're talking about DeVos, you tell 'em "hey, the Senate still can block this! They're actually really close!" If they're grumbling about the travel ban you say "Hey, call your senator and tell them to oppose it!"

There are cases where it obviously won't work. But I keep watching for the cases where it will.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:09 PM on February 1, 2017 [16 favorites]


Source familiar with Trump foreign leader calls says the POTUS convos are turning faces "white" inside the WH.

Are we still doing phrasing?
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:12 PM on February 1, 2017 [25 favorites]


i heard that Trump's brought in Alfonse D'Amato as his special advisor for his call with Shinzo Abe
posted by indubitable at 7:15 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


One of my FB friends just posted a DC number and said that it's the one to call the Senate Committee on Homeland Security to urge them not to allow Bannon on the NSC. A recording or a person will take your name, number and a brief message. She's sweet, but perhaps a bit gullible. I've been hurt by too many times in my life by people who've claimed to have my best interests at heart to take anything in this political climate at face value.

I've been feeling traumatized, frankly, in basically seeing aspects of the horrors I grew up with in my family of origin being replicated on such a large scale against our country, if not the world.

So is this number a real thing, or is it a trick that would be the foundation of some "enemies list" that that monster would use against citizens? How do I vet these things?
posted by droplet at 7:15 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


I finished reading City of Refuge, sequel to The Fifth Sacred Thing (yeah, it says "book 3" but book 2 was a prequel); there were parts when I had to stop reading and fight back tears.

I agree with the "radical empathy" approach mentioned in the article Glibpaxman discussed. We cannot win this conflict with greater force - not because we don't have it (we... probably don't?) but because there is no "win" in subjugating our opponents. We have to persuade, and that has to start with saying (I'm quoting the books, here): "There is a place for you at our table, if you should choose to join us."

That doesn't mean, "you're welcome in our community no matter what." It means, you have to share some of our values: that people are innately worthy of consideration and tolerance; that how they manage their private lives is no business of yours; that we share a planet and all need to take some responsibility for managing its resources so that future generations also have access to them; that no child deserves to be cold, hungry, bereft, or assaulted. More abstractly, it means that we agree that our nation, our communities are improved when all the people in them are thriving.

We can argue what "tolerance" consists of, and how to allocate limited resources, and how old a "child" is. But if we can start with those premises, we have a foundation to build communities.

And yes, it sucks that this means we're stuck doing outreach to our abusers. It means we have to take the high road; it means not lashing out at the people who have grown up thinking empathy is only for their peers; it means being patient and calm when we're filled with pain and fear. It means running the risk of Stockholm syndrome - where empathy gets us to ignore or justify vile acts, rather than understand them and allow for the possibility of forgiveness.

But it can work. And when and where it does, you get true converts, people who are ashamed of their past. (And then you get to play therapist, telling them they are allowed to put that behind them, that it is not, in fact, easier or better to get caught in a guilt spiral or take refuge in denial.) Some of the converts will reach out to others; when it works well, there's a chain reaction that explodes across small communities.

There's no quick fixes. This is a one-on-one thing, at least for now. There's no general format or script, because it has to be tailored to the person, to the community. But it starts with living the truth you want to see around you, with being more saddened than angry at the ones who are so scared, so petty, that they can't find any value in themselves if they don't believe they're defeating someone else.

(Sorry for long rant. Have been reading spiritual activism books because they're the only hope I can find.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 7:17 PM on February 1, 2017 [19 favorites]


I think anyone who wants to volunteer should offer if they see a need that they can help with. I really am failing to see why that suggestion seems to be so upsetting. Nobody should go riding in like a white knight who's going to educate and/or save the gullible rubes from themselves. I'm talking about just providing help in small ways, like helping to clean up school playground equipment or helping landscape a senior citizen's yard when they can't.

Then go march the next day as well.
posted by hollygoheavy at 7:18 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


"I feel I have to protest at this unnecessary conflation of Australia and Mexico. The last thing we want down here is for Donald Trump to start building a wall between our nation and the USA."

Hang on, are we sure convincing Donald Trump to spend the next four years attempting to build a wall across the Pacific Ocean is a bad idea? I mean, he's impervious to facts, they used to keep Tsars out of trouble by engaging them in impossible building projects until they died. Unless he can blow up the moon (in which case he may have enough material for a wall and also we'd all be dead), a wall between the US and Australia might be our best bet! He has no idea how deep the ocean is, or how big, just that Obama wasn't strong enough to build a wall between the US and Australia to protect us from their dangerous exports of ... knife-wielding actors? Spiders? Foster's? Surely there's something he can get worked up about.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:23 PM on February 1, 2017 [47 favorites]


Facebook statement from Vice-Chancellor of my old university in New Zealand:

Statement from Victoria’s Vice-Chancellor Professor Grant Guilford: “A foolhardy, unethical and quite possibly illegal Executive Order has been issued by the White House temporarily banning citizens of seven countries from entering the United States.

The University is not currently aware of any staff or students who are affected. However, we will continue to monitor the situation and if we do identify anyone at Victoria who is, or could be, impacted by the ban we will be doing everything possible to support and advise those people.

It goes without saying that disgraceful actions such as this Executive Order are the antithesis of Victoria University of Wellington’s global-civic commitment to inclusivity, equity and diversity, and are not in keeping with the core values of respect, responsibility, fairness, integrity and empathy we share with the wider academic community.”
posted by Pink Frost at 7:27 PM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


"You have a bunch of bad gringos up there" Pena Nieto told Trump. "You aren't doing enough to stop your American gun shops who are selling 90% of the guns to the cartels. I think you are scared of the NRA. Our military isn't, so I just might send them up to take care of it."

Remember to use the [fake] and [real] tags. We're through the looking-glass, here, so everything is plausible.
posted by Superplin at 7:27 PM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump

Iran is rapidly taking over more and more of Iraq even after the U.S. has squandered three trillion dollars there. Obvious long ago!


War.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:28 PM on February 1, 2017 [17 favorites]


So is Kaine the new Lieberman or something c'mon what's wrong with him why is he voting like this
posted by Apocryphon at 7:28 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


>I really am failing to see why that suggestion seems to be so upsetting.

People are scared. People gotta protect themselves and I'll never begrudge them that.

That said, the mass volunteering thing sounds new, exciting, and possibly effective, so I'd like to n'th it. A very big part of why we're here is because the rural areas feel the cities are arrogant, uncaring, and invulnerable. They've been lied to, but trying to tell them that is like shouting into the wind. This is the best suggestion I've seen to bridge that gap. If there are better ones, I'd like to hear those too.

If you are in a place where you can do some good, do it.
posted by Bobicus at 7:30 PM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


So what you're saying is, if I and my coworker whose cousins abroad may never see the U.S. again, and my buddy and his Mexican husband all merrily plant petunias in Deplorableville, maybe the people who elected Trump and are cheering his virulent assault on human rights will decide we don't need to be burned at the stake after all?

Oh yeah, sign me right up for that.

Wait, on second thought, I actually live in Deplorableville, MI, and the highly-despised business those friends above and I work for and the salaries of its employees that get poured into the local economy and our volunteer and pro bono contributions to the community are the only damn thing keeping this town afloat and affording its residents a decent standard of living. And I'm already perfectly pleasant to my neighbors, who openly act like they think I'm basically a freak from Alpha Centauri.

In other words, I gave at the fucking office.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:36 PM on February 1, 2017 [67 favorites]


I am not going to pretend to understand rural areas, because holy fuck is it clear to me that I don't, even though I could walk to the nearest rural area without much trouble. But I think that many rural folks would feel kind of insulted by a blue-state volunteer program. They don't see themselves as charity cases, and they don't think they need your help. They think they should go on mission trips to help the benighted folks in Chicago.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:37 PM on February 1, 2017 [19 favorites]


A very big part of why we're here is because the rural areas feel the cities are arrogant, uncaring, and invulnerable.

One of the old Trump threads had more than one post about 'fuck the rural Wisconsinites who put in Trump'.

And like the 'ha-ha look at the crying snowflakes' people - there is a WHOLE lotta gap to bridge.
posted by rough ashlar at 7:38 PM on February 1, 2017


Funny how they don't seem to be speaking out about this President going on a telephonic insult tour that makes us look downright deranged.

Because they think it makes the US look strong, not deranged. They are completely fucking clueless.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:39 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


@NickBaumann
We have always been at war with Oceania.
posted by chris24 at 7:42 PM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


Hey remember when everyone thought Ivanka might be a feminist?

Ahahahhahahahahahah omg
posted by Yowser at 7:43 PM on February 1, 2017 [25 favorites]


DeVos contributed $60K to Toomey's campaign, which strikes me as a bargain to buy a U.S. Senator.

No lobbying for 5 years after leaving the White House, but what does it matter when you can bypass the entire lobby system after Citizens United, or just directly appoint corporate elite to senior positions for which they are entirely unqualified.
posted by p3t3 at 7:44 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


I've always been Team Fuckup.

@HeerJeet
After today, where do we stand on the incompetent fuck ups versus evil geniuses trying to create chaos debate? [poll]
posted by chris24 at 7:45 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


Also, holy shit I'm still not over the ACLU trusting Y Combinator.

That's like the inquiry into indigenous women's deaths/disappearences being co-opted by a University radicalization organization called CAFE.

Oh wait that happened too.
posted by Yowser at 7:46 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


When I was young, a female astronaut came through our town doing a talk for K-12 students. I was just looking her up this evening, it was Kathryn Sullivan I believe. I read her entry on Wikipedia, and it says "She is the most recent Under Secretary of Commerce for Oceans and Atmosphere and Administrator of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration after being confirmed by the U.S. Senate on March 6, 2014. Dr. Sullivan's tenure ended on Jan 20, 2017 with the swearing in of President Donald Trump."

This makes me even more sad, and impresses upon me the long-lived people and institutions that this election has thrown into chaos. Kathryn Sullivan was also the first US woman to do a spacewalk. :sigh: Stupid, short-sighted people...
posted by Rufous-headed Towhee heehee at 7:47 PM on February 1, 2017 [31 favorites]


Everyone should read this:
Questions Cloud Risky Raid That Killed an American Commando in Yemen
(and then, if you've ever written anything along the lines of "I wish the NY Times would go out of business," you should go fuck yourself.)
posted by neroli at 7:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]




Meanwhile...""It was at the end of a long day & he was tired & fatigue was setting in." CNN on White House's response to Trump's hanging up on Aussie PM."

1) no stamina, sad!
2) sundowning, for reals.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:49 PM on February 1, 2017 [43 favorites]


"I love [to invade] Hispanics!"
posted by kirkaracha at 7:50 PM on February 1, 2017


Yeah, I think people who want to swoop in and help redstateville haven't necessarily been to/lived in those areas; they really don't want your help and may shout at you "GO BACK TO BOSTON, LIBERAL!" (because that is, uh, where liberals come from? Apparently? This was back in the "Taxachusetts" days. I am not from Boston although one time I visited it and it seemed nice although alarmingly full of Red Sox fans.) Smug liberals swooping in from big cities is, like, the worst.

Outreach that might work -- through the agricultural extensions (which have a long history of good work with insular rural communities that don't necessarily trust outsiders) or using their hard-won wisdom; through community colleges; through local church networks especially if you're a co-religionist. Or, as I've seen a few people doing, by moving there. By jobs, by education, by trusted locals who actually understand things like economics and politics and can cut through some of the haze of misinformation and prejudice (especially if they can run for office as moderate Republicans).

I think a lot about the NHS in the UK, and how that got through, and a big part of it was -- it wasn't a hand-out, it was something that everyone earned through the nationwide sacrifice of WWII. It was something that they had earned and were owed. In a lot of these rural communities, economies and futures have collapsed; they are extraneous to the modern economy, they know it, and charity is a reminder that they have nothing to offer. People want to feel NEEDED. People want to work, not in a Dickensian workhouse way, but in a way where they feel they're contributing to their community, not just leeching off it. Also why the CCC was relatively successful as a "welfare" program, I think.

But also let's not kid ourselves, Trump voters were wealthier than average and there's a lot more wealthy urban and suburban and exurban folks who voted for hate and Mammon than there are hard-up rural opiod-epidemic voters.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:50 PM on February 1, 2017 [74 favorites]


It was at the end of a long day & he was tired & fatigue was setting in." CNN on White House's response to Trump's hanging up on Aussie PM.

I really hope I don't have a meeting during the press conference tomorrow so I can hear how Spicer tries to sell this.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 7:53 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]




Looks like we need to add "Black Jack" Pershing to Trump's list of favorite generals.
I mean, "Punitive Expedition, U.S. Army" is a little obvious but still.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:54 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Maybe liberals need to participate in volunteer efforts in their own communities, to take care of their communities when the federal government melts down. Raise local taxes in sanctuary cities, do fundraising, volunteer work. Because I'm not at all sure the country is going to stay together. If not actually split, it may become little autonomous cold warring districts, at least that's the Republican plan. We may have to have volunteer efforts to move regular people out of Nazi areas.

Don't volunteer in conserv...uh, Republican areas, those people are self sufficient.
posted by bongo_x at 7:54 PM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


Don't give up on WV quite yet.

@DowntownHWV
Several hundred people marching in downtown #HuntingtonWV in protest of the refugee ban. [video]
posted by chris24 at 7:55 PM on February 1, 2017 [28 favorites]


It was at the end of a long day & he was tired & fatigue was setting in

Oh, fuck no. After all the shots he took at Clinton during the campaign, he doesn't get to be tired. Blow it out your ass, Mr. President.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:55 PM on February 1, 2017 [58 favorites]


Yea, let's stop asking how to help Trump voters when their choices inevitably come back to haunt them economically. We're still stuck on "Trump Voters: the Empathyning" in perpetuity, apparently. They don't want help, let them eat those bootstraps they so desire.

Let's build parallel state level programs in blue states, and let the red states do as they please.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:56 PM on February 1, 2017 [18 favorites]


It was at the end of a long day & he was tired & fatigue was setting in.

I've been reluctant to jump on the dementia bandwagon, but this kind of inappropriate and unpredictable aggression and anger is making me reconsider. It is a classic symptom.
posted by JackFlash at 7:56 PM on February 1, 2017 [22 favorites]


Sydney Morning Herald:

"Indeed, if the report about Turnbull's call with Trump is accurate, it sounds almost as though Trump was "negging" the PM like a particularly low-rent pick up artist – describing the refugee deal as Australia's attempts to export the "next Boston bombers", boasting about his election victory and abruptly ending the call early. Stay mean, keep 'em keen."
posted by chris24 at 7:57 PM on February 1, 2017 [19 favorites]


It was at the end of a long day & he was tired & fatigue was setting in

So he is weak, just as I suspected.
posted by futz at 8:01 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Virginia, of all states, has moved for a contempt order, arguing that the feds have not followed the temporary restraining order issued this weekend.
posted by zachlipton at 8:02 PM on February 1, 2017 [46 favorites]


They're refugees, not illegal immigrants, you dipshit. And your own spokesman just said we'd still take them after "extreme vetting," whatever the heck that is
posted by zachlipton at 8:04 PM on February 1, 2017 [23 favorites]


There's something extra unhinged about that last Australia tweet, right?
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:06 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Wow, things are going south fast. Military selling out Lord Dampnut on the raid.

U.S. military probing more possible civilian deaths in Yemen raid
U.S. Central Command said in a statement that an investigating team had "concluded regrettably that civilian non-combatants were likely killed" during Sunday's raid. It added that children may have been among the casualties.

Central Command said its assessment "seeks to determine if there were any still-undetected civilian casualties in the ferocious firefight."

U.S. military officials told Reuters that Trump approved his first covert counterterrorism operation without sufficient intelligence, ground support or adequate backup preparations.

As a result, three officials said, the attacking SEAL team found itself dropping onto a reinforced al Qaeda base defended by landmines, snipers, and a larger than expected contingent of heavily armed Islamist extremists.
posted by chris24 at 8:07 PM on February 1, 2017 [60 favorites]


The Australian fight is bonkers. I'm really not looking forward to NZ's turn - at this point I'm half expecting him to reopen the fight over ANSUS and nuclear ships visiting NZ.
posted by xiw at 8:07 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]



@realdonaldtrump, 3 minutes ago: "Do you believe it? The Obama Administration agreed to take thousands of illegal immigrants from Australia. Why? I will study this dumb deal!"


I get these moments when it just doesn't feel like real life anymore. Hard to explain it, like it's jerks quickly out of this reality and back again. Are other people having things like this happen like some sort of stress reaction or is it time to worry?
posted by Jalliah at 8:07 PM on February 1, 2017 [49 favorites]


@realdonaldtrump, 3 minutes ago: "Do you believe it? The Obama Administration agreed to take thousands of illegal immigrants from Australia. Why? I will study this dumb deal!"

Does he know we can read Twitter in Australia? He's literally calling US allies 'dumb' in a public forum.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 8:08 PM on February 1, 2017 [18 favorites]


Yeah, I think people who want to swoop in and help redstateville haven't necessarily been to/lived in those areas

Actually, I live in "redstateville" and my parents, extended family and daughter/son in law all live in a very small, rural part of Florida. My daughter is a 4th grade teacher in their again,very small and rural town where a full 97% of the school qualifies for free meals. So, I have quite a bit of experience with rural, southern very very conservative populations. The way people will respond to you is dependent on how your attitude is when you're around them. If you go in with a snotty, condescending attitude, then you'll get all sorts of pushback. I mean, seriously-don't go riding in with a bull horn shouting "we're smart liberals here to help your dumb asses". I go help distribute donated baked goods to the people who live in my grandmother's federally supported senior facility. Nearly 99% of them voted Trump and have been super vocal about hating Obama, Hillary, Democrats, Liberals, Snowflakes etc etc etc. I've never once pointed out that their rent is affordable because of the government subsidy they get to live there. I've never discussed their Medicare, Social Security or their hypocrisy. We have discussed their fears of what is going to happen, both before and after the election. I have reassured them that no matter what, there will be people who will be there for them.

Basically, if you feel like this type of outreach is something you'd be interested in, then do it. If you feel you've already done your share, that's fair enough and don't do it. Don't start shitting on people who have different ideas for things to do right now. It's how we end up doing nothing, because we're so busy arguing over the minutae of what is and isn't ok to do.
posted by hollygoheavy at 8:09 PM on February 1, 2017 [25 favorites]


U.S. military officials told Reuters that Trump approved his first covert counterterrorism operation without sufficient intelligence, ground support or adequate backup preparations.

REMEMBER

B
E
N
G
H
A
Z
I
?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:10 PM on February 1, 2017 [74 favorites]


Jalliah, it isn't just you. I call it a "Wait, isn't this how the movie starts?" moment.

I was just sitting here thinking how I need to really be appreciative of *now*. Before it gets worse. I am having a glass of wine and some dark chocolate and goddammit I am going to enjoy it for what it is.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 8:11 PM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


So just to recap (adapted from this tweet).

We're threatening and feuding with:
- Iran ("on notice")
- Australia ("dumb deal")
- Mexico ("bad hombres")
- Assorted parts of the federal government (e.g. "get with the program")

We're pretty much entirely unconcerned with:
- Russia attacking the heck out of eastern Ukraine
posted by zachlipton at 8:14 PM on February 1, 2017 [60 favorites]



So is CNN covering the Aussie call? Or is this something they decided to tell him was being talked about right now.
posted by Jalliah at 8:14 PM on February 1, 2017


After today, where do we stand on the incompetent fuck ups versus evil geniuses trying to create chaos debate? [poll]

¿Porque no los dos? We have Trump and we have Bannon.
posted by sebastienbailard at 8:15 PM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


The urban/rural conflict has existed basically everywhere there has ever been cities. It's been A Thing for the entirety of human civilization. All the way back to Mesopotamia. If we have to solve that problem before we can have a functioning polity, we're screwed.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 8:16 PM on February 1, 2017 [20 favorites]


Just, keep things in perspective.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 8:21 PM on February 1, 2017


That said, the mass volunteering thing sounds new, exciting, and possibly effective, so I'd like to n'th it

-Americorps exists RIGHT NOW. So do a bunch of private, religious programs with basically identical models. (I served in one.) They serve school children on reservations, people with developmental disabilities, teenage drug addicts, adults learning to read, children with disabilities, the homeless, undocumented people, low-income people who need medical care, and senior citizens in subsidized housing. Unsurprisingly, Republicans hate Americorps.
-Short-term volunteer programs are not very efficient. There's too much turnover and the volunteers tend not to have very many useful skills. They do more for the servant than the served, tbh.
-Like I said above, when they do exist in rural areas, they serve populations that DIDN'T FUCKING VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP. The divide is not rural vs. urban. It is economically secure white people vs. pretty much everyone else in the country. Those "I'm just a poor white redneck, can't you lend a hand?" voters are in the minority. And frankly, they don't need a hand, they need to be less racist.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 8:21 PM on February 1, 2017 [24 favorites]


Today I answered a curious (not in the US) friend's question of "what did Trump do right or wrong?". Here is my answer verbatim:
There's no what he did right and what he did wrong. Flat out I'm afraid.

Legal Permanent Resident status doesn't mean shit to the administration and that's my status. Today it's Muslims. Tomorrow, maybe there's a showdown between the US and China and Turnbull decides that China is the bigger and more worthwhile trading partner. What if Australia signs the TPP and slights the United States who have pulled out? What if Trump decides to start taking punitive action against a perceived betrayal by Australia?

My other option is, of course, to become a US citizen but at that point if I speak too loudly within some fascist state down the line my disappearance would simply be another internal domestic squabble to be sorted out by the courts rather than an international incident. I wouldn't be able to have the Australian consulate come visit me, get word out to my family, or demand my release on my behalf for, forgive the pun, any trumped up charges.

So that's where I am right now.
I didn't realize how quickly I'd be looking down the barrel of possibly being completely fucked. Right now I can only hope that Trump's saber rattling in Turnbull's direction is just braggadocio because starting shit does not fill me with confidence.
posted by Talez at 8:22 PM on February 1, 2017 [16 favorites]


Virginia, of all states, has moved for a contempt order, arguing that the feds have not followed the temporary restraining order issued this weekend.

Three reason for why Virginia: 1) Va has its elections this year, opposing Trump looks good for the attorney general running for reelection and the lieutenant governor running for governor. 2) The Eastern District Court of Virginia is known as the rocket docket, cases move quickly. 3) The judge who issued the temporary stay, Leonie Brinkema, has a reputation for taking no shit. A contempt of court hearing is serving up an easy pitch in hopes she will lay down some smack.
posted by peeedro at 8:22 PM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


As seen floating around twitter: "the refugees have undergone more rigorous vetting than his Cabinet."
posted by TwoStride at 8:23 PM on February 1, 2017 [62 favorites]


Twitter should hellban @realdonaldtrump. Just for a day. Just to watch him go crazy watching none of his tweets get any traction at all.
posted by emelenjr at 8:23 PM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


So a couple of hours ago, before Trump's tweet, US Embassy Canberra put out a statement confirming that the refugee agreement would be honored, stating that this was just reconfirmed from the White House.

This is exactly what we were afraid of. That the government would promise one thing and then he would go upend everything with a late night tweet.
posted by zachlipton at 8:27 PM on February 1, 2017 [25 favorites]


I get these moments when it just doesn't feel like real life anymore. Hard to explain it, like it's jerks quickly out of this reality and back again. Are other people having things like this happen like some sort of stress reaction or is it time to worry?

this is 100% how i just felt after reading the Mexico and then Australia call excerpts.
posted by indubitable at 8:28 PM on February 1, 2017 [16 favorites]


How the fuck are refugees that are welcomed into the country "illegal immigrants," especially before they've even fucking gotten to the country?

It doesn't make any sense in any reading of the phrase.
posted by flatluigi at 8:31 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


Twitter should hellban @realdonaldtrump. Just for a day. Just to watch him go crazy watching none of his tweets get any traction at all.

It would be worth it to just shutter Twitter completely if it meant depriving Donald Trump of a broadcast medium.
posted by My Dad at 8:31 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Has TrumpDraws been mentioned yet? I don't think it is just the wine taking when I say this is hilarious.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 8:32 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


I've been reluctant to jump on the dementia bandwagon,

Me too, until I saw the "Where's Giuliani?" video. Whoa.

I get these moments when it just doesn't feel like real life anymore. Hard to explain it, like it's jerks quickly out of this reality and back again.

More than moments.
posted by bongo_x at 8:33 PM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


The thing about the Australia commotion is that it's not being questioned why Australia will not admit these people. Big, rich country.

And these refugees are being kept in truly ghastly conditions. Rape, torture, assault, murder. By design of course. The "lucky country."
posted by My Dad at 8:33 PM on February 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


The thing about the Australia commotion is that it's not being questioned why Australia will not admit these people. Big, rich country.

Racism dressed up as a moral hazard.
posted by Talez at 8:34 PM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


How's everyone enjoying the handbasket?
posted by flippant at 8:34 PM on February 1, 2017 [28 favorites]


I get these moments when it just doesn't feel like real life anymore.

I was and remain a big fan of absurdist literature/drama but "America: The World's Absurdist Masterpiece" is one of the most terrifying real-life examples yet. Beavis and/or Butthead as a President would be a huge step up.
posted by juiceCake at 8:35 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm sorry if I seemed like I was saying that all people, everywhere go volunteer in communities that voted R. I don't think that marginalized people are obligated to go be nice to the very people who are supporting policies that will further make their lives difficult. I've followed every one of the political threads, so I know that it's been suggested-but maybe doing that type of outreach is easier or more comfortable to some people than marching in a protest is. That's my point, do what you can, do what you're good at, something is better than nothing.
posted by hollygoheavy at 8:36 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


We're pretty much entirely unconcerned with:
- Russia attacking the heck out of eastern Ukraine


So, a couple weeks ago, when I went to a movie I saw a trailer for something coming up later this year - Bitter Harvest, a love story set during the 1930s Holodomor atrocity in the Ukraine. According to Wikipedia, they started production on this in 2013 - well before Trump started his presidential ambitions. But the current political climate has made me very, very curious to see how it is going to land upon its release, and what kinds of reactions it may trigger.

I doubtit would be pulled from release by now (the trailers were kind of all over).
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:37 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


hellban @realdonaldtrump

Here's the thing with stuff like that, you might not like. Once when the Popes were more active in geopolitics, they would act by excommunicating rulers or even placing whole territories under the interdict, removing the Church's services. I could see the big corporations eventually doing more than making press releases if Trump pisses them off too much, maybe becoming a big part of getting regime change... But then, interfering like that would be a Thing Corporations Could Do, and, like the Popes, they'd be sovereign.

Me personally I'm like FUCK YEAH SOVCORPS BABY, SNOW CRASH NOW, but maybe for some it's a tradeoff.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 8:37 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


I get these moments when it just doesn't feel like real life anymore. Hard to explain it, like it's jerks quickly out of this reality and back again. Are other people having things like this happen like some sort of stress reaction or is it time to worry?

This one time, I decided to read every Phillip K. Dick novel, one after another. I started getting exactly what you describe about a third of the way through. It just got worse from there. I think after The Man in the High Castle (I was about 2/3s of the way through) I remembered the William Gibson short story The Gernsback Continuum, and realized I needed a serious memetic detox.
posted by sixswitch at 8:38 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


it's like, you know that episode of Metalocalypse where Nathan Explosion is elected governor of Florida? that feels about as real as whatever the national situation is right now.
posted by indubitable at 8:40 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


How's everyone enjoying the handbasket?

It's getting kind of hot.
posted by bongo_x at 8:42 PM on February 1, 2017 [32 favorites]


FWIW on "empathy for regretful voters"... I'm also perfectly fine with, "I'm sorry you didn't bother to look into the details before you voted. I wish your choices weren't going to cause harm to the people I care for, and I'm going to be too busy helping them to worry about what happens to you. I cannot support an administration that treats five-year-old child like a dangerous criminal, and I have very little energy to give attention to the people who wanted that administration."

Or the short version, "White Christians worry that SNL is going to mock them; people of color and Muslims worry that White Christians are going to kill them. Your worries, White Christian, are not my biggest concern right now."

Empathy absolutely doesn't mean, "spend your limited energy trying to make your oppressors comfortable." It means relating to them as humans, in a way that lets them (forces them, ideally) to perceive you as human, as part of their community. It doesn't mean smiling at them - quite the opposite; we've been smiling at them for years; it does nothing but cement their belief that we're too dim to be allowed to be in charge of our own lives.

I've never once pointed out that their rent is affordable because of the government subsidy they get to live there. I've never discussed their Medicare, Social Security or their hypocrisy.

And because nobody else has, either, they are comfortable believing that they have a right to housing that someone else is paying for, but that children getting food stamps are "moochers." Not saying any particular person should be challenging their beliefs, but as a nation, we have gone too long without calling selfish hypocrites out on their BS because we can't figure out how to say "you're part of this community even if you're a bigot."

Mostly, I think MeFites are doing fine on the empathy front.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 8:43 PM on February 1, 2017 [44 favorites]


The Days of Volunteering thing is close to what sciatrix has mentioned here before and has put some work into trying to get Texans going on. Namely that Democrats need to go into rural areas and start fixing some potholes and getting things done that need doing.

And honestly I do think liberals need to get out and volunteer more in their own communities. How many are members of Lion's Clubs and various lodges and other volunteer oriented organizations? I think if there's an image of liberals as elite and remote, it might be because a lot of us consider ourselves too good to get involved with the boring life of the community. I mean, in some areas those groups are going to be made of Democrats, but I bet they're still mostly older. (I am also just as bad. I've lived where I am for over 10 years and besides a very brief association with the local Democratic party I haven't been involved with the community at all. Other than my job, when I was working.)
posted by threeturtles at 8:45 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm watching WWII Canadian spies fight Nazis right now. It's quite satisfying.
posted by Jalliah at 8:49 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Meant to say this in my first comment, but I'm posting from my phone. The volunteering thing sounds so appealing as a way to reach Trump viewers because it's EASY. Getting white people to give up racism is HARD.

My corps sent me from my 65/35 Trump rural home county to Berkeley, because that's where the need was (And the infrastructure, but that's a different post), and they are one of the more lefty hippy corps, and one of the interview questions in my prescreen IN TWO THOUSAND AND GODDAMNED TWELVE was if racism existed. Did I believe in racism.

Seriously, the work I did (office admin) was easy. Diffusing the INCANDESCENT RAGE of one of the white dudes I ACTUALLY LIVED WITH when he realized he was expected to sit quietly when a Latinx person was speaking about their own life? I try never to think about that man, but I'm pretty sure wherever he is, he's still a racist, and we had monthly fucking don't be a racist trainings.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 8:51 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


And I'm sorry I was super-pissy about the volunteer outreach thing and didn't mean to suggest people shouldn't be charitable or generous. Reading that festive "Hey, Religious Fanatics, Go Ahead and Treat Women, LGBTQ People, and Other Second-Class Citizens Like Dogshit with Impunity" EO draft tonight just drained the milk of human kindness for Trump voters right out of me, at least for the moment. But that doesn't justify snarking at fellow MeFites.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:51 PM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


Google, Apple, Facebook, Uber plan to draft joint letter opposing Trump’s travel ban

Took them long enough, but I'll take it. A draft of the letter is behind the link, also mentions dreamers, refugees, not just their employees.
posted by zachlipton at 8:52 PM on February 1, 2017 [19 favorites]


Australia's PM is on the radio right now claiming the call ended 'courteously' and that Trump totally didn't hang up on him like he was a telemarketer hawking cheap double glazing.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 8:52 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm not even sure who the hell uses Twitter. I love it, but whenever I mention Twitter to virtually anyone I know, except for my journalism contacts no matter how old they are, what they do, where they live they either say they don't understand how to use it (find interesting people to follow, or find friends to interact with) or it's just a toxic, disgusting mess.

Would the average Joe Blue State voter or Josephine Red State voter care or even notice if Twitter was just shut off?

I highly doubt it.

Twitter was probably correctly predicted by Nostradamus or the crazy guy that wrote Revelations as a key warning of the end times.
posted by My Dad at 8:54 PM on February 1, 2017


I have been reaching out, for years, to my conservative family and they consistently refuse to listen/reject me/dismiss my values/demand my silence. I have agonized, and argued, and shown compassion, and nearly adopted one of their grandkids when it looked like they needed it, and done all I can. I have always approached them with love, defended them from contempt, tried to understand their POV. It didn't work. They don't want to hear what I have to say.

They like their hate. It feels good to them, it feels normal, and every time I challenge it, they feel threatened and if I push hard enough, they lash out.

I'm done. I'm going to work for the people who truly need me, and if someday my relatives reconsider and reach out, sure, we can talk. They know where to find me.

As it is, I honestly don't expect to see any of them again unless it's a funeral. It's really sad and it I have grieved about it, but I've done what I could.
posted by emjaybee at 8:56 PM on February 1, 2017 [77 favorites]


The volunteerism as outreach and retail politics thing is something I've been thinking about a lot lately and I think it has to start in bluer areas in red and purple states and evolve naturally from there: you start low key in your own backyard, you try to get some local news coverage after you get it up and running enough for a bigger project, and when the inevitable "oh yeah well good for you in the city, why don't you help us?" comments roll in you come back with "What do you need? We can be there Saturday." and you go help the maaaybe one person who bites in actual good faith. But mostly chase down leads to help in purpler areas, reinforce your base and grow from there. And your group needs to make perfectly clear to its members that there will be NO pressure put on people who don't feel safe heading out anywhere.

With my local group I'm going to advocate starting the volunteerism in one state house district in my city that has a Republican rep to help get us a full slate of Dems, not trying to take on the world right away. We can grow from there. One of the other goals in the back of my mind with this is having a tight volunteer game and connections with more minority community leaders and organizations ready in the group for any bullshit the fuckers throw towards scrubbing voter rolls, we will need to be prepared to get people reregistered.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:57 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


How's everyone enjoying the handbasket?

DUDE! THERE'S A NEW HAT IDEA!!!!!!
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:01 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Well as a cis-presenting white dude, I'll do some coddling of wavering Trumpists if it helps, but that's more because I don't think I have any real setting between polite and literally strangling the other person.

But, yes, our first obligation is to support and protect the vulnerable. Save your energy for that if dealing with clueless jerks is going to drain it.
posted by Zalzidrax at 9:02 PM on February 1, 2017


Donald Trump's closest advisor Steve Bannon thinks there will be war with China in the next few years

“We’re going to war in the South China Sea in five to 10 years, aren’t we?” Mr Bannon said on his radio show in March 2016. “There’s no doubt about that. They’re taking their sandbars and making basically stationary aircraft carriers and putting missiles on those. They come here to the United States in front of our face — and you understand how important face is — and say it’s an ancient territorial sea.”

USA Today article linked above (paywall workaround here)

During an interview in February 2016, Bannon expressed alarm about China and Islam as he talked about a Breitbart story proclaiming a mosque at the North Pole, although it was actually in a northern Canadian village hundreds of miles away.

“You have an expansionist Islam and you have an expansionist China. Right? They are motivated. They’re arrogant. They’re on the march. And they think the Judeo-Christian West is on the retreat,” he said. “Talk to us about this mosque on the North Pole.”


The China situation has never been perfect (I don't want to get into all the nuances here) but it has been tenable with carefully thought out diplomacy until president bannon and trump fucked that up. Of course they don't see it as a fuck up. They love it. Relations with China were always fragile. Is this map accurate? If so, it shows just how tenuous the situation with China is. If they already feel like their backs are against the wall...

I hope I am not wrong about this but I have a lot more faith in China restraining themselves than I do the US government at this time. Unfortunately it just takes an ember. I am hoping that world leaders will be adults and realize that they are dealing with madmen. *cries* and I also know that there will be others ready and willing to add fuel to that ember.
posted by futz at 9:02 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


Well, there is Black Twitter...

And NBA twitter.

Not sure how black/NBA/liberal journalists/altrightNazis are Twitter's core userbase...but yea, that's kind of accurate.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:03 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


I will always help anyone who can get down on their knees and beg me for help while they lick the soles of my shoes.

...anyone else, not so much.
posted by aramaic at 9:07 PM on February 1, 2017


White dudes who aren't suffering being horrible to Trump supporters who are suffering is actively harmful to all the people who they are supposed to be an ally to. That message is important, but yet that message does not need to be sent to those hurting under Trump, and so that Cracked op-ed is garbage.

But for those of us who are scared for our loved ones and colleagues but aren't yet hurting, we need to be the ones empathizing and reaching out. We need to bridge that gap so they can hear how Trump is hurting those we care about. So they can see the harm and the vulnerability. Many of them will never take their blinders off. But some of them will.

And we also need to volunteer at home to protect those in danger, and support and show solidarity. We need to protect our own. We need to support them when they turn away from hate, and cut out their family or community from their lives. We should support those who do not love and forgive those who hate and oppress them. We should show solidarity for those fighting back and doing anything and everything to stop the march of evil.

We need to be diverse in our methods. We need to attack this from every angle. Shabbat dinners saved David Black from white supremacy. Nonviolence works. We need to be nonviolent. Richard Spencer being punched turned him from dapper alt-right spokesman to hated Nazi. Violence works. We need to be violent.

We have the people and the energy right now. We don't need to be married to one and only one form of activism. Those of you who have put in the time, energy, and compassion and can't do it anymore, do something else. Let others battle that demon for a while. And keep sharing your stories and advice for the rest of us.
posted by Bobicus at 9:09 PM on February 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


How about instead of empathy and outreach, we ride the wave of national disgust in 2018 to retake the Senate and make significant gains in the House, run somebody 10x more popular than Trump in 2020, retake the House and Presidency, and then ram so many liberal policies through that they weep in despair?
posted by chortly at 9:09 PM on February 1, 2017 [54 favorites]


Today in eponysterical history, I just want to point out that my pie-in-the-sky fairy-tale fantasy comment upthread, about whether or how we could actually make all of this Trump nonsense go away, has as of 9pm Pacific received exactly one favorite and it's from Metafilter's own OnceUponATime.

Okay, I get it. Message received, team. And thank you for the probably inadvertent but painfully appropriate wake-up call, OnceUponATime.

posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 9:10 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


During an interview in February 2016, Bannon expressed alarm about China and Islam as he talked about a Breitbart story proclaiming a mosque at the North Pole, although it was actually in a northern Canadian village hundreds of miles away.

And look how these northern Canadians reacted to Quebec, you fucking shitstain of a human being.

I wish I knew how to insult better. I feel like I want to write a paragraph of insults but all I have is 'fuck' and 'shit'.
posted by Jalliah at 9:11 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


Really would love to know what kind of anger is coming down on back channels between world leaders and the GOP congressional leadership right now, I have to imagine there's a lot of attempts to route around Trump and get the ear of the people with at least a basic understanding of geopolitics and the means to show Donnie the door.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:12 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


hellban @realdonaldtrump

I contritely admit that I've been 24-hour banned from MeFi before, for good reason.

Making donnie take a 24 hour time out might be an appropriate punishment given his neurological development level.

But gosh, I can even already out of for his first post-24-hour-ban post.
posted by porpoise at 9:13 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Also, part of the reason I object so strongly to the idea that we should build community through service is because it plays into the ENTIRELY FALSE narrative that white people who experience any non-racial axis of oppression are the people who are most in need in our country. It's important for rural white people, or poor white people, or disabled white people, to insist that racism doesn't exist, because then they have it "the worst," which naturally means all corrective public policy should center them, which they feel entitled to, because they are white. This insistence on centering non-racial oppression is a very ugly element of all the intra-community anti-racism advocacy I've done in the last five years, and the more often I see it play out as a way of erasing non-white people (haven't seen many long-form pieces about the bitter Native American Clinton voters in rural Wyoming!) the less patience I have for it.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 9:14 PM on February 1, 2017 [46 favorites]


CNN has a different take on the "bad hombres" call:
According to an excerpt of the transcript of the call with Peña Nieto provided to CNN, Trump said, "You have some pretty tough hombres in Mexico that you may need help with. We are willing to help with that big-league, but they have be knocked out and you have not done a good job knocking them out."

Trump made an offer to help Peña Nieto with the drug cartels.

The excerpt of the transcript obtained by CNN differs with an official internal readout of the call that wrongly suggested Trump was contemplating sending troops to the border in a hostile way.
The Associated Press report said Trump threatened to send US troops to stop criminals in Mexico unless the government did more to control them, but both the US and Mexican governments denied details from the story.

Sources described the AP's reporting as being based upon a readout -- written by aides -- not a transcript.
So basically keeping the broad substance, but not directly the threat to invade. Both reports, however, agree on the use of "hombres," which in a sane world should be an impeachable offense in and of itself.
posted by zachlipton at 9:19 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


Frankly, there are only so many hours in the day, so the people who hang out in the Bleaksville, PA diner all day waiting for the news crew to show up and interview them about their Very Real Concerns about jobs and immigration will have to get to the back of the queue.
posted by holgate at 9:20 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


> Is this map accurate?

Null question. Given map contains no legend and zero information.

China as a continental defender has an incredible overwhelming supply/logistics advantage. Nukes makes things equal.

The Bannon administration is probably stupid enough to go into what would effectively be a war of attrition against China; LOTS of soldiers on both sides (and civilians on whosoever's side its primarily fought on) are going to die and the US will withdraw after extreme domestic pressure.
posted by porpoise at 9:22 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


(I'm still having a lot of trouble with the McSweeney's piece linked upthread. After the first couple of paras, I thought they were laying the satire on a bit too thick. After the third para, as realization dawned ... shudder.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:23 PM on February 1, 2017 [18 favorites]


I wish I knew how to insult better. I feel like I want to write a paragraph of insults but all I have is 'fuck' and 'shit'.

William Shakespeare, at your service
posted by Thella at 9:23 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


an official internal readout of the call

Either it's an internal disinfo operation, or it's fuckwits. Or maybe both.

The Turnbull call, fwiw, probably happened late on Saturday, while Jarivanka were still on sabbath duties.
posted by holgate at 9:23 PM on February 1, 2017



The excerpt of the transcript obtained by CNN differs with an official internal readout of the call that wrongly suggested Trump was contemplating sending troops to the border in a hostile way.


so

so the threat of invasion is THEIR OWN PROPAGANDA that they think makes them look tough and cool and great. not a leak to show the world how awful they are. a lie they told on themselves because it is what they think will impress. this, I, it.

also, the polite fiction that he says big-league instead of bigly is a goddamn pathetic capitulation to falsehood that I am ashamed to see anyone submitting to, anywhere. who are you going to believe, CNN, the transcript or your own lying ears?
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:25 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


This is blowing up in Australia overnight. He's insane. We've not even two weeks in, and he's insane.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:29 PM on February 1, 2017 [17 favorites]


He's literally calling US allies 'dumb' in a public forum.

He's saying Obama was dumb to take the deal, which is actually calling the Australian counterparty smart by comparison.
posted by Coventry at 9:30 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


I made a Top 100 Possible Trump Administration Foreign Crises list & I gotta admit "Rupturing US-Australia Relations" was NOT on there.
-Chris Murphy
posted by gatorae at 9:31 PM on February 1, 2017 [27 favorites]


So basically keeping the broad substance, but not directly the threat to invade. Both reports, however, agree on the use of "hombres," which in a sane world should be an impeachable offense in and of itself.

It's entirely possible that these differing accounts are due to Trumps goddamn incoherent and untranslateable speech. He doesn't speak in complete or intelligible English sentences, leaving every hanging clause and half formed phrase he utters open to wide interpretation.

Again, because he's insane.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:32 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]




So the Daily Mail has a story, that I guess I'll link against my better judgement and my pretty ironclad "don't ever click on the Daily Mail" rule, because they've got alleged photos and we can't pretend this isn't a thing, right? Anyway, if I've taken us down the road of fake news with this one, sorry. EXCLUSIVE: Trump's Supreme Court pick founded and led club called 'Fascism Forever' at his elite all-boys Washington prep school

Apparently, they've got his Georgetown Prep yearbook, which features a photo of him in a button-down shirt and tie reading William F. Buckley's Up From Liberalism, but more importantly, it lists him as Founder and President of the "Fascism Forever Club": "In political circles, our tireless President Gorsuch’s “Fascism Forever Club” happily jerked its knees against the increasingly “left-wing” tendencies of the faculty."

Frankly, it's really hard to care about what clubs someone started in high school as something that should shed meaning on their life decades later, and I'm sure it was all tongue in cheek and everything, but you know, fascism. Any other President nominates him and it would be far easier to laugh off. But from Trump? Fascism forever.
posted by zachlipton at 9:35 PM on February 1, 2017 [15 favorites]


Jalliah I get these moments when it just doesn't feel like real life anymore. Hard to explain it, like it's jerks quickly out of this reality and back again. Are other people having things like this happen like some sort of stress reaction or is it time to worry?

I felt that way today after reading the bellicose statements and tweets about Iran. Felt sick to the pit of my stomach.

[Edit. Damn autocorrect]
posted by vac2003 at 9:35 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Or maybe they leaked a purposely worse version so they could pounce on "fake news".
posted by gatorae at 9:35 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Speaking of China, and despite all the German Nazi Bannon focus lately, I've been recently thinking what Trump himself had envisioned for his presidency is perhaps more akin to the past decade of growth in China.

The combination of tight-fisted chest-thumping single party governance that is constantly threatening, but rarely engaging (although I don't think Trump has the self-control to restrain from actual engagement) and strict control of the media paradoxically paired with the total deregulation of industry and their newfound love of capitalism. I think the Chinese business philosophy of minimum viable product at cheapest possible cost also mirrors Trump's brand. China’s bullying of neighbors around the South Pacific and simultaneously demonizing and trading with Japan also seems to reflect Trump’s tough guy talk and bullying that’s already in full force.

Trump probably envisions replicating that model of economic growth, but without taking into account all the drastic socio-economic differences over there. Like the fact that China was basically non-capitalist and pre-industrialized before the boom. They also have 1 billion people from which to grow a domestic market in addition to a huge poor labor force for manufacturing exports. Whereas the US is post-post-industrial and has a complex balance of global economic and military partnerships, but I think he just takes offense at their quick economic and military rise and thinks they’ve stolen our mojo, when in fact all his corporate pals happily sold them all our industrial mojo for a few more stock market points.

Anyways, I don't have much of a point, but I'd like to see someone smarter than myself looking at this comparison and what it might imply or how we can possibly stay a few steps ahead of this lunatic. Is he taking notes on currency manipulation yet?
posted by p3t3 at 9:39 PM on February 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


Yeah I know that acting like these folks are playing 12-dimensional chess just gets me burnt every time, but I do feel like "let's leak false information to the press so we can call them all out as 'fake news' and truly discredit them forever" is exactly the sort of ridiculous plan that the Trump communications staff would find irresistible.
posted by zachlipton at 9:39 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


This is blowing up in Australia overnight. He's insane. We've not even two weeks in, and he's insane.

Note that Sky News Australia is owned by Rupert Murdoch, and while it has somewhat more of a regulatory duty to operate as a news channel, it is still favoured by the Australian right, and still said that the orange puppet was a yelling bully.
posted by holgate at 9:42 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


This is blowing up in Australia overnight. He's insane. We've not even two weeks in, and he's insane.

Also, it's mid afternoon here in Oz. We've all been following this cray cray business during the workday.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:44 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


How the fuck are refugees that are welcomed into the country "illegal immigrants," especially before they've even fucking gotten to the country?

It doesn't make any sense in any reading of the phrase.


I'm not current on the refugee situation in Australia, but historically (as in, earlier this millennium), refugees have been treated as illegal immigrants by the party currently in power.
posted by Coventry at 9:44 PM on February 1, 2017


Make America Great Leap Forward, a coal-fired smelter in every backyard!
posted by perhapses at 9:44 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


I do feel like "let's leak false information to the press so we can call them all out as 'fake news' and truly discredit them forever" is exactly the sort of ridiculous plan that the Trump communications staff would find irresistible.

Didn't something very like that happen with Bush II's Vietnam war history?
posted by Coventry at 9:47 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Leaking absurd lies to cover truths is not 12th dimensional chess, it's public relations 101. I did a version of it in 6th grade as damage control when a former friend spread a true rumor about me. They are largely reactionary, but this whole fake news thing feels plotted to me, especially the Mexico invasion.
posted by gatorae at 9:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


To Donald Trump's credit, he made it through an entire day of Black History Month without holding an event with Rachel Dolezal.
posted by andoatnp at 9:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


I appreciate all the feedback on the volunteering idea. I really do understand why it would be difficult to implement, both logistically and well... ethically. My family is a bunch of racist, gay hating, evangelicals. I don't have much hope for them no matter what anyone does.

But I am trying to remember that out of any 10 Trump voters there were probably 3 or 4 who felt a bit morally divided about their decision (the other 6 self-assured neonazis can suck my boot). But shouldn't we be trying to talk with those people? Seems like driving them away is counterproductive.
posted by Glibpaxman at 9:48 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


"In political circles, our tireless President Gorsuch’s “Fascism Forever Club” happily jerked its knees against the increasingly “left-wing” tendencies of the faculty."

Someone please photoshop Gorsuch's face onto Eric Stratton from Animal House and add an armband
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:49 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


President Bannon, being weirdly stuck in the 20th century, thinks in terms of gunboat wars and/or nukes. China would prefer not to empty the shelves of Walmart and Dollar General, but it could.
posted by holgate at 9:49 PM on February 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


Australia's PM is a spineless, lying piece of shit who couldn't make a hard decision if it involved removing his trousers because his bottom was on fire. Our government(s) for the last 15 years have been pushing their noses further and further up the arse of the USA (government, of course) and treating refugees worse and worse; it's well past time someone with a backbone started doing their bloody job.
posted by h00py at 9:52 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


I'm not current on the refugee situation in Australia, but historically (as in, earlier this millennium), refugees have been treated as illegal immigrants by the party currently in power.

That's not quite it.

Refugees have been treated as a political football by both major parties; in the last few years this has culminated in politically stoked antipathy against 'boat people' ( ie refugees that attempt to land by boat - the political term is 'illegal maritime arrivals', even though seeking asylum is not illegal), boat turnbacks (which sometimes result in the boats, which are unseaworthy, sinking with all aboard), offshore detention centres (ie prison islands - Manus in PNG or Nauru), and a zero tolerance approach (NO WAY. YOU WILL NOT MAKE AUSTRALIA HOME.) which means that people languish in the prison islands until they give up and beg to be sent back to the countries they were fleeing from, or kill themselves. A select few have recieved asylum status in Manus or Nauru, where they are reviled and abused by locals.

Here's a primer via the NYT. It is accurate.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:52 PM on February 1, 2017 [23 favorites]


Re: volunteering, it reminds me of those who donated to the burned down RNC office in NC. we felt good about it until they repaid the kindness with a fucking coup. No, I won't be helping out Trump voters anytime soon. I'd rather help their victims.
posted by gatorae at 9:56 PM on February 1, 2017 [37 favorites]




NO WAY. YOU WILL NOT MAKE AUSTRALIA HOME.

Just a bit more on this point. This was actually a $20 million ad campaign about how refugees that arrive by boat will never be resettled in Australia (a position that violates UN conventions).

The line (arguably) is a riff on a song by Peter Allen:
I Still Call Australia Home

...
I'm always travelling
I love being free
And so I keep leaving the sun and the sea
But my heart lies waiting over the foam
I still call Australia home

All the sons and daughters
Spinning around the world
Away from their family and friends
But as the world gets older and colder
Its good to know where your journey ends
Someday we'll all be together once more
When all of the ships come back to the shore
I realise…I still call Australia home
The sheer hubris it took to riff on THAT song for your racist anti-refugee campaign...

Obviously, this is all appalling. Which is why it is actually quite delightful to see our PM so humiliated over his garbage position on this issue. Even if it is by a short fingered fascist rage demon.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:02 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]




Frankly, it's really hard to care about what clubs someone started in high school as something that should shed meaning on their life decades later, and I'm sure it was all tongue in cheek and everything

And yeah, it wasn't like he was at Georgetown Prep because his mother had been Reagan's EPA administrator and resigned after being cited for contempt of Congress because of fucking up Superfund stuff.

Anyway, Turnbull went on 2GB, the conservative talk radio station (home of veteran arsehole Alan Jones) and didn't really deny much apart from the hang-up at the end, while members of the Aus cabinet talking to friendly media suspect President Bannon of leaking the substance.
posted by holgate at 10:06 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]




I get these moments when it just doesn't feel like real life anymore. Hard to explain it, like it's jerks quickly out of this reality and back again. Are other people having things like this happen like some sort of stress reaction or is it time to worry?

this is 100% how i just felt after reading the Mexico and then Australia call excerpts.


We gotta shut down that hardon collider
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:09 PM on February 1, 2017 [10 favorites]


Just re Australia, it also takes a comparatively large number of refugees under the UNHCR programme. So there's this bizarre contrast, between a programme that's being implemented by some genuinely good NGOs, on the one hand. And then on the other hand, the absolutely horrific treatment of asylum seekers, who arrive by boat.
posted by Pink Frost at 10:11 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


We gotta shut down that hardon collider

Ouch.
posted by bongo_x at 10:12 PM on February 1, 2017 [10 favorites]


President Bannon, being weirdly stuck in the 20th century, thinks in terms of gunboat wars and/or nukes. China would prefer not to empty the shelves of Walmart and Dollar General, but it could.

They're busy making new trade agreements with the rest of the world. Every once in a while they push one of Trump's buttons to keep him going.
posted by bongo_x at 10:14 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Pat Oliphant, one of the greatest living cartoonists, hadn't published a political toon in over two years. Well, today he came out of semi-retirement to make a painfully obvious statement.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:19 PM on February 1, 2017 [10 favorites]


I think it's more likely that whatever US-Russia alliance emerges brings China in line with whatever plan they have cooked up. You don't wage a land war in Asia, but being right next door doesn't hurt.
posted by rhizome at 10:19 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Oliphant should have stayed in bed.
posted by rhizome at 10:20 PM on February 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


So, do you think Sean Spicer is excited to go to work tomorrow?
posted by zachlipton at 10:21 PM on February 1, 2017 [16 favorites]


It would be devastatingly simple for Putin to convince this admin to "hey, let's fight ISIS and China together" and then pull the football away at the last minute. Oops.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:23 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Maybe that's not what you meant, but that very much is the thrust I'm getting from that garbage Cracked op-ed, written by (quelle suprise!) a white dude.

John Cheese was the writer who previously shared his experiences growing up as poor white trash. But I guess intersectionality has gone out the window, because why not.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:27 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


But I guess intersectionality has gone out the window, because why not.

Trumps America, we're done with political correctness now.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:30 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]




I get these moments when it just doesn't feel like real life anymore. Hard to explain it, like it's jerks quickly out of this reality and back again. Are other people having things like this happen like some sort of stress reaction or is it time to worry?

I keep coming back to the book Reinventing Collapse about the fall of the Soviet Union, where the author claims that after the phase where politicians stop taking each other seriously, people start smearing feces on their faces and running around.

Please let other thread members know if you start doing these things. I will do the same.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:32 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Okay, if Oliphant is well past his Best By date for you, here's something from a much younger webcomicker.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:34 PM on February 1, 2017 [19 favorites]


So, do you think Sean Spicer is excited to go to work tomorrow?

I hope he has a wonderful Groundhog Day, and many, many, many happy returns of the day.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:34 PM on February 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


He didn't claim to speak for other intersectionalities. He in fact spoke about his own ignorance of others' plights.

I'll be the first to admit, though, that it's really goddamn easy for me to say that, being a white heterosexual male. I've never had to deal with the world telling me I'm an abomination. I've never had large racist organizations telling me I need to move back to England where I came from (even though I've never been there). I'm aware this isn't even close to easy. But it's necessary.

How many op-eds never even get to that point? At least he's trying to listen and to build bridges. He even acknowledges that people may be bitter enough to shut him out-

Though I happen to agree that sometimes, that's the only response you can have in order to keep yourself from going insane.

It's an emotional time and it's an understandable response. Still, I don't see what's substantively wrong about his message. Maybe it's a little tone-deaf towards those who are still suffering. So it's a tone issue and a timing issue.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:35 PM on February 1, 2017


Chaffetz is dropping HR 621, his "sell the land" bill, after public opposition. I'm sure he listened to the hunters more than anyone else, but it's another sign that keeping the pressure on is valuable.
posted by zachlipton at 10:36 PM on February 1, 2017 [80 favorites]


The op-ed isn't even preaching about "go forth and talk to Trump voters, they are Rust Belters who voted for economic reasons, racism is not real." It's talking about people who are express remorse over voting for Trump. Isn't the whole point to win back those people, those Obama Democrats, those bamboozled, those defectors? If we're not going to give up, if we believe that there will still be elections in 2018, and in 2020, and onwards, then we need those people. I mean even if you don't think they'll vote for the Democrat maybe you can at least get them to sign a petition to get an anti-voter suppression measure added to the state/local ballot or something
posted by Apocryphon at 10:38 PM on February 1, 2017 [10 favorites]


I don't know everything about Cheese's life, so I apologize if this is incorrect out of ignorance, but intersectionality is about multiple axes of oppression. Trump voters aren't a protected class.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 10:40 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


He's terrible person & classic schmuck

Oh my God, Classic Schmuck is the perfect insult. Its so old school New York City. Yes, Donald Trump is a Classic Schmuck.

people start smearing feces on their faces and running around.

Please let other thread members know if you start doing these things. I will do the same.


Wait, that's not normal?
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:40 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]




On volunteering: a lot of talk about it here like the intended audience is Trump supporters. Here in Colorado (swing state hey-o), the younger Democratic Party folks I've been talking to have also been talking about volunteering and community outreach, but with a different aim. From the perspective of folks who knock on doors for campaigns for days on end: they think they'd have better odds of convincing independents and registered but lazy/infrequent voters to turn out for progressive candidates if people saw them in their neighborhoods at times other than when they're essentially showing up in the middle of dinner and asking the resident to do them a favor. I think there's probably something to this idea, especially given the typically atrocious turnout of democrats in midterm elections.
posted by deludingmyself at 10:42 PM on February 1, 2017 [41 favorites]


people start smearing feces on their faces and running around.

Please let other thread members know if you start doing these things. I will do the same.


It has to be both though, right?
posted by bongo_x at 10:47 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Mr. Hankey isn't due for another 11 months
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:48 PM on February 1, 2017


Just re Australia, it also takes a comparatively large number of refugees under the UNHCR programme. So there's this bizarre contrast, between a programme that's being implemented by some genuinely good NGOs, on the one hand. And then on the other hand, the absolutely horrific treatment of asylum seekers, who arrive by boat.

It's been set up such that for every genuine refugee who arrives by boat, we take one less genuine refugee from overseas camps, using a fixed annual quota for the total refugees per annum.

Australia is the only country that plays one set of refugees against the other like this, creating a political climate where it's possible to act as if camp refugees = good, boat refugees = bad ("queue jumpers", although there is nothing like a queue).
posted by UbuRoivas at 10:49 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


If the goal is to win elections, I would question the wisdom of targeting Trump voters for volunteer efforts. It would make more sense to target precincts where Democrats tend to do well, but voter participation is low.
posted by Coventry at 10:49 PM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


At the end of the day, this republic- if it continues to be one- lives and dies on votes and fundraising. So if the next however many years is going to be a continuous war of attrition of bleeding off former Trump supporters and pointing them at the right direction, then at some point that you have to recognize them as people. Horribly misled and misinformed people. But maybe people who could vote for someone else, esp. if they're already at the point of disavowing Trump...

But I understand the impulse to shut them out and damn them all is always strong. Good thing that this is the side that tolerates dissent and difference of opinion then, no?
posted by Apocryphon at 10:49 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


One thing that is super obvious that is worth repeating is that we can't just run against Trump. We have to keep finding people who are inspiring, charismatic and able to make a connection with voters. Yes, we can try to discourage people from voting Trump, but there's got to be at least a few center and left would-be politicians in any given town or county that we could get to run for offices.

Turning a few more state and house legislatures blues is the first step to turning the fed blue. And then we have to keep them blue.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:56 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


One weird detail is that the NYT reported that Kushner (and Bannon) was there when Trump approved the op in Yemen. It's not normal to have your son-in-law there when you send in special forces, right?

(for the record: I totally posted this comment before @onlxn retweeted this. I'm unoriginal but not that unoriginal!)
posted by zachlipton at 10:58 PM on February 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Isn't the whole point to win back those people, those Obama Democrats, those bamboozled, those defectors?

This specific thing is a really big ask because WE WARNED THEM. This kind of retreat to ignorance is super-common when trying to get white people off racism. They insist they didn't know, no one ever taught them, it's just not a part of their life so you can't blame them, and people of color are like, "We've been writing books about this for like several centuries? Also someone shouted a racial slur at me at the playground when i was six and my mom started crying when she explained to me what it meant?" Ignorance is a LUXURY.

Christ, I'm not happy ANYONE might lose their insurance. But it is really difficult to be warm-hearted towards people whose stance is basically, "I thought the leopards would eat other, you know, less important people's faces, and maybe just a nibble." People who were in danger SCREAMED that they were in danger from a Trump Administration. If people didn't hear that, it's because they had the luxury of ignorance, and that ignorance has had monstrous consequences.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 11:00 PM on February 1, 2017 [70 favorites]


I'm a student at UC Berkeley, and I'm really depressed over how tonight's protest of the Milo Yiannopoulos event went. This was supposed to be a positive protest to counteract his bigotry and hate, and instead the news is full of images of people getting assaulted. It's demoralizing.

To be sure, we were always going to lose. The Berkeley College Republicans invited him to speak, and their goal was 100% to troll the left on campus. No matter what we did they would win at that. Milo's plan for the evening was to debut a program aimed at targeting undocumented students on campus. He was going to show pictures of them paired with their names, and it was going to be broadcast on brietbart.com. We were all seriously worried about the safety and wellbeing of some members of our community. The campus refused to prevent him from speaking, so we could either let him speak and allow violent harassment in the name of "free speech," or we could stop him and have us all labelled as fascists. We got the latter.

Worse, though, is that the protests got so violent that innocent people were hurt. That's fucked up, and it doesn't represent our values as a campus community. Most of the black bloc people weren't even students, but now the narrative is about how horrible UC Berkeley is, and how we can't stand free speech. God knows we'll never hear the end of it from the fucking College Republicans. They've already been calling themselves "the New Free Speech Movement," because I'm sure if Mario Savio were alive today he, too, would make Pepe his profile picture.

So anyway, massively depressing outcome, but at least Milo didn't debut his fascist plan on our campus. It's a Pyrrhic victory.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 11:00 PM on February 1, 2017 [72 favorites]


One weird detail is that the NYT reported that Kushner (and Bannon) was there when Trump approved the op in Yemen. It's not normal to have your son-in-law there when you send in special forces, right?

Not when you're barely hanging on to non-senile coherency. Trump is a package deal, he clearly can't make independent decisions without one or more babysitters. It's barely a step above the Weekend at Bernie's Presidency.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:04 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


Weekend at Bernie's would be a step up.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:05 PM on February 1, 2017 [20 favorites]


One weird detail is that the NYT reported that Kushner (and Bannon) was there when Trump approved the op in Yemen. It's not normal to have your son-in-law there when you send in special forces, right?

Kushner's official title is Senior Advisor -- he and Bannon and Priebus are the top three staffers. Isn't Kushner ostensibly the administration's go-to Israel-Palestine negotiation expert? (Yes, I find it ludicrous too, but it's what his business cards say.)
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:05 PM on February 1, 2017


OH GOD WHAT HAS THIS CENTURY MADE ME TYPE
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:06 PM on February 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


This specific thing is a really big ask because WE WARNED THEM.

I've said it before; the Republican line, officials and voters, is going to be "We were all fooled!" "No one could have known!" "Let's just put all this behind us now"

Fuck that.
posted by bongo_x at 11:08 PM on February 1, 2017 [39 favorites]


Sure, but at least try to get them to sign for a measure to repeal voter ID laws, or call Paul Ryan about their dissatisfaction about the situation, or at least check out the opposition's website, before telling them to fuck off. I'm saying consider trying to recruit them before kicking them to the curb, is all. At least tell them what they can do to start to make up for what they did and fix the situation.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:11 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Also, this will be my last post so other people can talk, but we only feel like we need to convert Trump voters because of widespread voter suppression and gerrymandering targeting Democratic voters. I would rather work on that than continue tiptoeing around my incredibly fragile fellow whites while ignoring systematic disenfranchisement.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 11:12 PM on February 1, 2017 [54 favorites]


But I understand the impulse to shut them out and damn them all is always strong.

Meh, not even that. For me, I would use a variant of Batman's line at the end of Begins: "I won't harm you, but I don't have to help you."

I don't damn them, but I don't really care enough to point them in the right direction. That's their job.
posted by FJT at 11:14 PM on February 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


... and the first step to getting around gerrymandering is going to be to turn state houses blue and governorships blue. We can't rely on institutions like the courts.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:14 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


I guess my point is that someone regretful about voting for Trump is to be favored over someone who remains steadfast in their vote, not morally speaking, but pragmatically speaking. Remember the Obamacare saved my life Republican guy?
posted by Apocryphon at 11:15 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


Note that Sky News Australia is owned by Rupert Murdoch, and while it has somewhat more of a regulatory duty to operate as a news channel, it is still favoured by the Australian right, and still said that the orange puppet was a yelling bully.

Murdoch also owns Heat Street where Louise Mensch started her Trump/Russia theorizing before being sort of canned but maybe still working for News Corp (?) and then there was that thing where the @RoguePOTUSStaff account and her got into a weird fight with her calling them Russian disinfo and them posting a supposed screenshot of a DM from her angling for a Heat Street interview even though she supposedly doesn't work for Heat Street... basically I don't trust any of the above but I've been wondering what the hell Murdoch's game is with Trump lately. Weirdly all over the map on Donnie in different media properties and even within properties when you'd expect nothing but positive spin and propaganda. Maybe Rupert's just mad that Trump went with the National Enquirer for his tabloid rag needs, or maybe it's a slap fight with Putin for supposedly dating Rupert's ex last year. Or maybe all of the above are just that Putin style "everything and nothing are true" undermining of certainty in facts and playing both sides. And then there's the Murdoch kids all talking about the value of immigrants while owning Fox News. Gahh I still can't believe we're this far out from the Bush years and I'm still thinking about the many and varied ways the Murdochs are fucking with the world.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:16 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


shapes that haunt the dusk, thank you for the report!
posted by futz at 11:19 PM on February 1, 2017


This specific thing is a really big ask because WE WARNED THEM. This kind of retreat to ignorance is super-common when trying to get white people off racism. They insist they didn't know, no one ever taught them, it's just not a part of their life so you can't blame them, and people of color are like, "We've been writing books about this for like several centuries? Also someone shouted a racial slur at me at the playground when i was six and my mom started crying when she explained to me what it meant?" Ignorance is a LUXURY.

Christ, I'm not happy ANYONE might lose their insurance. But it is really difficult to be warm-hearted towards people whose stance is basically, "I thought the leopards would eat other, you know, less important people's faces, and maybe just a nibble." People who were in danger SCREAMED that they were in danger from a Trump Administration. If people didn't hear that, it's because they had the luxury of ignorance, and that ignorance has had monstrous consequences.


This is just so well put, I had to quote it.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 11:22 PM on February 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


We definitely need to have some sort of pool to guess the first place that Trump actually does invade. Mexico? Iran? Chicago?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:52 PM on February 1 [4 favorites +] [!]


I hope if it's Chicago it's after 8:00 am. I need some sleep....make that 8:15 am, I should be so lucky as to have my first cup of coffee by the time the invasion starts.

Do you think MI6 would do something to save us if we promised to pay 240 years of back taxes? It seems the prudent fiscal choice - much cheaper than repairing and recovering from all the damage that's being and going to be done.

However.....maybe the drug cartels in Mexico are pissed off enough now to do something....enemy of my enemy is my friend?

'nite from the Windy City
posted by W Grant at 11:27 PM on February 1, 2017


Kushner's official title is Senior Advisor -- he and Bannon and Priebus are the top three staffers. Isn't Kushner ostensibly the administration's go-to Israel-Palestine negotiation expert? (Yes, I find it ludicrous too, but it's what his business cards say.)
...and remember this; we are only going to find it very informative and very, very careful.

And we also need a cheerleader.

You know, you need two willing participants. We know Israel is willing to accept that Israel is a Jewish state.

I love the people in this room.

And what are we doing? They’ve got to solve the people in this room. I love Israel. I love Israel.
Hint: Markov Trump generator.

On the minus side, we're in the only timeline where our president is indistinguishable from a text generator halfassedly trained on a few of his speeches. On the plus side, most of the 95+% confidence models said we'd be in one of the timelines where the only icecream to survive the US-Australia war is Dipping Dots.
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:27 PM on February 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


I wish we were in this timeline.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:29 PM on February 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


One thing that ought to be spelled out is that Australian politics and media would be quite familiar to Americans, especially on the conservative side, with the presence of people like Alan Jones on 2GB, and it appears that the Australian right is fairly pissed off and blabbing to Sky News and Fairfax.
posted by holgate at 11:36 PM on February 1, 2017


If there's an Australian Infowars Alan Jones to go with our Infowars Alex Jones, I'm not going to be able to keep this all straight or in context. I can only handle one country's worthy of legitimate politics gone off the rails vs actual raving lunacy at a time.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:43 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


The tick-tock here is that the Turnbull call was at 5pm Saturday, and Jarivanka ended their sabbath obligation soon after, then posted the unfortunate Instagram pic later that evening from the Alfalfa Club dinner without knowing much of what happened during the day. Saturdays are now officially fucking scary. Scarier.
posted by holgate at 11:43 PM on February 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Of course he didn't ask -- it would never have occurred to him to ask -- any of the actual diplomats

WE DON'T FUCKING HAVE ANY

THAT SHITGOBBLING CRETINOUS PIGFUCKER FIRED THEM ALL AND IS REPLACING THEM WITH PEOPLE WHO THINK BLOND ARYAN JESUS RODE ON DINOSAURS AND SHOT HIS ENEMIES WITH AN AK47
posted by poffin boffin at 12:00 AM on February 2, 2017 [104 favorites]


Are other people having things like this happen like some sort of stress reaction or is it time to worry?

it's called dissociation and i've been doing it since november 9th
posted by poffin boffin at 12:08 AM on February 2, 2017 [27 favorites]


One thing I'm doing to fight, because I believe that there are many institutions out there that are way better suited than I am to helping people that need help, fighting back through the courts, or enabling discussion, is to donate. Every week.

I am financially secure but have, until recently, only sporadically donated to a few organizations. I decided around the time of the election that I need to set some goals for myself. I decided that ~2% of income per year is a good number for me.

I don't want to send it all out at once, so I have my weekly allowance. The local food bank was first, because I give to them every year. I gave a bunch to Planned Parenthood. One week's went to Metafilter, for enabling these discussions. Last week's went to the ACLU as encouragement for the work they're doing to fight the immigration order.

It's nice to be able to respond to these organizations with support, and to reward their good deeds.

A lot of my friends have well-paying jobs and I've been mulling over how to put some subtle pressure on them to budget some of their income for donations. So far I've just asked around "How much do you donate every year?"
posted by cman at 12:20 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Jesus Christ when I stopped paying attention for a few hours it seemed like threatening to invade Mexico was the worst thing that could happen today. What the fuck? Stop this thing I want to get off.
posted by Justinian at 12:27 AM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


The President's Black History Month remarks get a review from Lin-Manuel Miranda: "I used to teach 7th grade. This would get an Incomplete and a have-your-parents-sign-it-so-I-know-they-read-this-crap."

In other "news," the WaPo Style section brings us: ‘Can she eat more kale?’ Hordes of people want reassurance RBG’s health is good:
“Can she eat more kale?” asks Kim Landsbergen, a forest ecologist in Ohio. “Eat more kale, that’s all I can say. We love you. Eat more kale.”
...
“I kept thinking, you know, I could organize a bunch of gays,” says John Hagner, a consultant for Democratic campaigns who lives in Washington. “I could organize the gays, and we would just make a protective circle around her at all times. We could help her get up and down the stairs. We got this.”
posted by zachlipton at 12:47 AM on February 2, 2017 [68 favorites]


when I stopped paying attention for a few hours it seemed like threatening to invade Mexico was the worst thing that could happen today


And this is what Trump is like in conversation with the leaders of some of the USA's largest trading partners and closest allies. By turns truculent, boastful, and insulting. If and when he has occasion to have dialogue with, say, Xi Jianping, it's probably going to start a war (no matter how much a shocked translator tries to soften the meaning). At this point it should be clear to anyone who's paying attention that he's dangerously mentally unstable and not fit to be president of a Kiwanis Club, let alone the United States.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 12:48 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Please remember when discussing the Milo protest that resulted in some broken windows and a fire that the first protest that the speech Milo gave a few days ago resulted in a protestor getting shot by a Milo fan. Said shooter was released with no charges, despite illegally bringing a weapon onto campus and, yknow, shooting someone.

Don't buy into the narrative that the Berkeley protesters are escalating. They certainly haven't shot the people protesting against them.
posted by flatluigi at 12:51 AM on February 2, 2017 [74 favorites]


Chaffetz is dropping HR 621, his "sell the land" bill, after public opposition.

But is he still gonna try sneaking HR 622 past while we're all breathing this sigh of relief?
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 12:56 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Oh, and the University speech Milo made the time before a fan of his shot a protester was the one where he got up on stage to call out a trans student by name, stick a picture of her up on the screen, and harass her graphically to the laughs of the audience.

Again, don't buy into the narrative that broken property is more important than a man shot in the gut and a trans woman humiliated and singled out for targeted hate.
posted by flatluigi at 12:57 AM on February 2, 2017 [111 favorites]


(and of course I definitely don't want to leave out that Milo is and was the face of the harassment campaign called GamerGate that all this fucking alt-right bullshit was partially born from, but that's all best explained elsewhere.)
posted by flatluigi at 1:11 AM on February 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


PEOPLE WHO THINK BLOND ARYAN JESUS RODE ON DINOSAURS AND SHOT HIS ENEMIES WITH AN AK47

The Pain/Tim Kreider: Jesus vs. Jeezus
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:21 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]




Lord Dampnut (my favourite anagram so far) is a champion guy. This story about how he dealt with a starry eyed business man from Pauline Hanson's (also mine) home town should be spread far and wide, just as a reminder of how petty and small he is.
posted by h00py at 2:11 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


From the perspective of folks who knock on doors for campaigns for days on end: they think they'd have better odds of convincing independents and registered but lazy/infrequent voters to turn out for progressive candidates if people saw them in their neighborhoods at times other than when they're essentially showing up in the middle of dinner and asking the resident to do them a favor.

This. I talked about Democrats and liberals getting more involved in their communities. I said NOTHING about Trump voters. I did mention rural areas, but let me tell you something. I LIVE in rural areas. There are lots of non-Trump people here. They tend to be POC, or people who are very disaffected by or rejected by the system. I have never had any interest in reaching Trump voters other than to get them to shut the fuck up once in a while. I'm more concerned with the 50% of the population who didn't vote at all.
posted by threeturtles at 2:18 AM on February 2, 2017 [23 favorites]


Egypt, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Colombia, Venezuela, southern Philippines, trans-Sahara (Mali), and Sulu/Sulawesi Seas Littoral.

I bet Trump hasn't heard of those last few; where could this even be this coming from?
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:38 AM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


southern Philippines
How are they going to enforce this?
posted by PenDevil at 2:43 AM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


They all have established and/or growing Muslim populations? It's so transparently Islamophobic I want to scream.
posted by h00py at 2:44 AM on February 2, 2017


I think specifically the residents of "the Sulu archipelago and Mindanao" will be targetted.
posted by Gyan at 2:45 AM on February 2, 2017


I keep telling myself that congressional Republicans are not low information voters. They are seeing all if this madness too and they hate him too. They are waiting for his popularity to go down enough so that his voters won't punish them for impeaching him. They are giving him enough rope to hang himself. They just want that Supreme Court seat first maybe. There are hundreds of them. They can't all be narcissists and sociopaths. Some of them must love their country enough to want to save it, to prevent the wars that Steve Bannon is trying to start. Some of them must care about Democracy?

But then I look at how they publicly defend him and normalize this bullshit and I think "If you are waiting for his popularity to tank, this is not the way to tank it faster." It is costing me my faith in humanity and that is more painful than anything else.

And I had this huge I mean huge fight with my mom. I told her that all her morality was hollow and she was a hypocrite if she supported this (not temporary for Syrians!) refugee ban, that her principles were empty if she had no problem with the wrecking ball Republicans had taken to the rule of law, and that I never wanted to hear her self righteous pronouncements on morality again if she didn't call her congressman and oppose this or do something to prove she wasn't on the side of the fascists.

So she said "maybe we can't have a relationship anymore." That's right, she decided to disown her daughter instead of Donald Trump.

My response was "You're not getting off that easy. If you don't want to hear from me you're going to have to block my number and my email." Then I just straight up shamed her all day with emails and texts of Bible quotes, articles about religious organizations opposed to the ban, quoting her own words back at her, and sending her pictures of dead refugee children. (She is one of those abortion protesters who likes the graphic signs.)

Finally she said she was never in favor of the ban, agreed to call her rep, and told me I needed therapy or the FBI was gonna come after me and I'd end up in jail. Later she texted me that she called her rep and could we be friends again?

I said yes, but I'm not sure, since it doesn't seem like she is willing to so much as complain about this stuff to her friends. She gave me some Bannon-esque "war is inevitable anyway, there is nothing you can do to stop it" stuff, and now my personal "Good Republican" for whose sake I have defended all other Republicans is scaring me.

So if that's how she's reacting I guess I don't know what Congressional Republicans are thinking. Maybe they don't want to get rid of him. Maybe they don't love this country as a federal entity and like Bannon want it to dissolve into a bunch of independent states for the sake of "local control."

Every day I read these threads and I think SURELY THIS SURELY THIS SURELY THISSURELYTHISSURELYTHIS!!! And now I'm so afraid that there is no bottom to how bad it can get and that I'm going to be jailed for my Facebook feed and my MeFi history, and who will take care of my kids? And then I share another Washington Post article because I know that when we are all afraid to talk about this stuff is when they win, and that's when it will start to get really bad. As long as we're still speaking out they can't consolidate power. But I hope you guys don't abandon me, don't start feeling afraid like I now do and quietly shut up and go under the radar. Because things are not going to go well for the last people to shut up.

But then I remember how incompetent this guys is... and how he has insulted all of them and how bad this is all going to be for business and how rich people will lose a lot of money due to that incompetence and I think "Maybe it can happen here, but he is not the guy to do it. They will turn on him." BUT WHEN? If not now, when?

Sorry for the unhinged ranting. Can't sleep. Maybe my mom is right and I do need therapy.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:51 AM on February 2, 2017 [124 favorites]


Would the average Joe Blue State voter or Josephine Red State voter care or even notice if Twitter was just shut off?

The various state security scrapers and marketing things like the ones Bannon is involved with would notice. It is a great way to spot the dangerous people so they can be shunned.
posted by rough ashlar at 3:05 AM on February 2, 2017


Making donnie take a 24 hour time out might be an appropriate punishment given his neurological development level.

While it might be amusing to watch, no way will the firm do this or would a few investors NOT file a lawsuit.

The stock market corrections of various tech firms over the immigration and QWEST communications are examples of what can happen.

Nixon's use of the IRS resulted in laws to prevent the use of the tax agency as a tool of vengeance so when in open Court a staffer at the IRS said “What did you think would happen when you sue the president of the United States?" I'm sure that was not anyone ignoring the rules from the Nixon era.
posted by rough ashlar at 3:14 AM on February 2, 2017


Oh, hey, I am shocked, that President Trump is calling Milo Y. "free speech," " a different point of view" and is threatening to withhold federal funds from UC Berkeley.

Does anyone know how many Groundhog Days there are going to be this year?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:27 AM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


now the narrative is about how horrible UC Berkeley is, and how we can't stand free speech

Its really crappy if innocent people got hurt, but honestly, this would be - will be - the narrative anyway. Each and every time. It's unavoidable.
posted by threetwentytwo at 3:38 AM on February 2, 2017 [13 favorites]


This Executive Order, if signed, may add the following countries to the travel ban implemented on January 25th: Egypt, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Colombia, Venezuela, southern Philippines, trans-Sahara (Mali), and Sulu/Sulawesi Seas Littoral.

Okay, is the reason why Indonesia is missing from the travel ban because they don't think southeast Asians are scary or because they haven't realized that's the largest Muslim country?
posted by dinty_moore at 3:39 AM on February 2, 2017 [23 favorites]


Does anyone know how many Groundhog Days there are going to be this year?

This groundhog is gonna be digging out the foundation base for years. The behaviour here will be used as a springboard for a new level of 'and this is why America sucks' foreign agitprop for decades to come. Perhaps this man's actions will put an end to the US Dollar being the reserve currency?

Only after the stock market tanks (creating the market buying opportunity of a lifetime) will Catherine Austin Fitts's red button be pushed and the man be tossed from the halls of power.
posted by rough ashlar at 3:43 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


But then I look at how they publicly defend him and normalize this bullshit and I think "If you are waiting for his popularity to tank, this is not the way to tank it faster." It is costing me my faith in humanity and that is more painful than anything else.

They're Republicans in Congress. Humanity is not a relevant term to that discussion.

I'll tell ya, as depressing as all of this is, my faith in humanity (and in the American general public) has actually strengthened, seeing all these protests and overwhelmed congressional phone lines. If you'd asked me three months ago if I thought two-thirds of Americans had a rational bone in their bodies, I might have said no. What's suffered is my faith in actual functioning democracy.

Sorry for the unhinged ranting. Can't sleep. Maybe my mom is right and I do need therapy.

It's not unhinged to react atypically to atypical circumstances. It IS unhinged, in my view, to bury one's head in the sand and refuse to acknowledge how bad all this really is (hence my disgust with lots of leading Democrats, hence the aforementioned loss of faith in functioning democracy).
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 3:46 AM on February 2, 2017 [15 favorites]


I hope you guys don't abandon me, don't start feeling afraid like I now do and quietly shut up and go under the radar. Because things are not going to go well for the last people to shut up.

Don't worry. There are a lot of us who at the least will go out screaming as loudly as we can. I don't have kids, I have a degenerative illness and chronic pain. I have no retirement savings. There's a certain part of me that sees going out swinging as the comforting option.
posted by threeturtles at 4:11 AM on February 2, 2017 [40 favorites]


Agreed: to smile and pretend these are normal times is to live in a state of pathological denial, that's probably another reason people are so into joining cult-like ideology-reinforcing and identity policing in groups and fantasy clubs. Peer reinforcement makes it easier to sustain the happy fantasy, like those personal improvement and success cults and prosperity gospel clubs popping up like toadstools lately.
posted by saulgoodman at 4:12 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


I hope you guys don't abandon me, don't start feeling afraid like I now do and quietly shut up and go under the radar. Because things are not going to go well for the last people to shut up.

there's a lot of us old activists who were around the nineties skinwars, W and the early anon & telecomix days who are mobilizing.
posted by xcasex at 4:21 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


The various state security scrapers and marketing things like the ones Bannon is involved with would notice. It is a great way to spot the dangerous people so they can be shunned.
Please don't do this.
posted by adamgreenfield at 4:21 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Do what? Point out that the government monitors social media?
posted by thelonius at 4:27 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]



This Executive Order, if signed, may add the following countries to the travel ban implemented on January 25th: Egypt, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Colombia, Venezuela, southern Philippines, trans-Sahara (Mali), and Sulu/Sulawesi Seas Littoral.


Okay, is the reason why Indonesia is missing from the travel ban because they don't think southeast Asians are scary or because they haven't realized that's the largest Muslim country?
do you know where the southern Philippines or the Sulu/Sulawesi Seas even are? or were you just being a little too quick to pull off a witty joke?

I'm also kind of headscratching on how to enforce this (mostly as a distraction from letting my thoughts being filled with murderous blood rage). There is no passport for just the "southern Philippines" or, like, the Spratly Islands. The most broadly interpreted version of this rule will impact Indonesia because that's where the littoral islands of the Sulawesi Sea are. If the CBG is being as extreme as possible in its interpretation "just to preserve the paramount safety of the homeland" then this does fuck over the Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia. It's just cloaked in language that makes it sound vaguely concerned about terrorism and piracy.
posted by bl1nk at 4:30 AM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Do what? Point out that the government monitors social media?
No, that part is inoffensive, if so trivially obvious that it hardly bears pointing out.

It's the pseudo-sophisticated paranoia-mongering this poster seems to perennially indulge in, which is the kind of thing that in my experience only ramps up fear and deprives people of the energy they need to fight the very real dangers they do confront.

It adds very little value to the conversation, and is not the kind of thing I like to see posted here without pushback.
posted by adamgreenfield at 4:31 AM on February 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


I'm sure Indonesia is excluded because the Family Business has ongoing deals in Bali and Jakarta, whereas the Manila deal is on the rocks.
posted by zrail at 4:39 AM on February 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


There is no passport for just the "southern Philippines"

Lord Dampnut knows that Duterte is even more insane than he is.

Pissing Duterte off is not on the cards, because the Philippines President will tell Dampnut and the world in no uncertain terms exactly what everybody else is too afraid to say.

So he targeted the southern Philippines, where Duterte himself is trying to suppress a long-simmering insurgency with an Islamic flavour to it.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:39 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


Indonesia will be next, just before the war with China blows up.
posted by h00py at 4:43 AM on February 2, 2017


I know that, UbuRoivas, but wording it that way just means that either you're going to give Customs and Border Control a really thorough database over which towns in the Philippines are "in the south" or you're going to start seeing a bunch of visas getting canceled for Filipinos who were born in Manila, Baguio, or Quezon City. As it is, it would already affect Davao (where Duterte was the mayor and where his base of support is deepest) so I don't think it would even achieve the effect of not pissing him off.
posted by bl1nk at 4:44 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


I've said it before; the Republican line, officials and voters, is going to be "We were all fooled!" "No one could have known!" "Let's just put all this behind us now"

Okay: I mentioned that I was responding to people on the "Trump Regrets" twitter. And "We were all fooled" and "let's put this behind us" isn't what I'm seeing there. I'm mostly seeing "WTF Trump why are you doing this" and "how dare you nominate DeVos" and "get Bannon out of there".

And I'm not sympathizing or reasuring them, I am simply telling them about a tool they can take - "The senate can still stop this, call your senator!" That's all I'm saying. No sympathy, no placating - just reminding them of their 6th Grade Civics class. Seeing that they are likely to act in collusion with us at this moment and giving them the tools to do so.

Now, I don't follow them after the fact and I don't try to follow up in further conversation with them. I just see an opportunity and I take that opportunity, instead of using that opportunity to say "this is your own damn fault, numbnuts" or whatever. I am merely reminding people, who may have forgotten (or worse, never been told) that there is a tool at their disposal, and I am encouraging them to use it. I don't offer this tool to people who are simply asking Trump to "act more presidential", I wait for actual complaints like people complaining about the travel ban or DeVos or the DAP.

I note, too, that at the start of the day yesterday I was seeing that Betsy Devos was three "no" votes away from being blocked - and at the end of the day yesterday, I was seeing she was only ONE "no" vote away. People are responding to things by calling their representatives, and it is having an impact. The more people we have calling their representatives to support our ultimate goals, the better, no?

Still, this is not something everyone wants to do, or feels they can do, and everyone's reasons to abstain from this are valid. Fortunately, this battle has many fronts, and it may take attacks ON all fronts to win. This is just mine.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:46 AM on February 2, 2017 [50 favorites]


Heh - I forgot Duterte was from Mindanao. Expect some hilarious broadsides from him in the coming days.

Also, if my experience of San Francisco is anything to go by, cancelling visas for Filipinos like that would grind the airports to a halt. It seems that speaking Tagalog is a mandatory requirement for employment there.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:51 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Christ, I'm not happy ANYONE might lose their insurance. But it is really difficult to be warm-hearted towards people whose stance is basically, "I thought the leopards would eat other, you know, less important people's faces, and maybe just a nibble." People who were in danger SCREAMED that they were in danger from a Trump Administration. If people didn't hear that, it's because they had the luxury of ignorance, and that ignorance has had monstrous consequences.

You're a nicer person that I am. If there were some way that the only people on whom the consequences of this president would fall were those who voted for and/or supported him (not their kids, their families or their communities), I'd throw a huge dang giddy parade.

Alack we live in a community where the bad things that happen to one person affect everyone else. It's a pity no one has explained this to the entire Republican party.
posted by winna at 4:58 AM on February 2, 2017 [13 favorites]


Also, if my experience of San Francisco is anything to go by, cancelling visas for Filipinos like that would grind the airports to a halt. It seems that speaking Tagalog is a mandatory requirement for employment there.

This is notably so of Covenant Security at SFO, where aviation security is provided by what is in my experience a unusual and disturbing partnership of the TSA with a largely unaccountable private agency. I have often had cause to wonder about what may be implied by "Covenant," and I like it not one little bit.
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:00 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


Heh - I forgot Duterte was from Mindanao. Expect some hilarious broadsides from him in the coming days.
"Heh"
Also, if my experience of San Francisco is anything to go by, cancelling visas for Filipinos like that would grind the airports to a halt. It seems that speaking Tagalog is a mandatory requirement for employment there.
.

Citizens who also travel and work overseas, then remit their savings home makes up for a non-trivial portion of GDP for the Philippines and they travel back and forth between the US and the Philippines all the time. A change like this would be severely disruptive for an entire country.

And, yes, I think it will also be disruptive and inconvenient for you if you traveled through SFO again.
posted by bl1nk at 5:06 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


It's very important that we don't go to war with Australia. They are surrounded from birth by deadly wildlife and would be formidable adversaries.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:14 AM on February 2, 2017 [32 favorites]


So far, with most over-the-top Trump moves, I can sort of see the thinking behind his actions, but what's with badgering the Australian Prime Minister?
posted by drezdn at 5:19 AM on February 2, 2017


You say that as if you didn't have grizzly bears. We don't need that much of an excuse to go to war. Give me shit about insects again, I dare ya! (And that, children of 2040, is how the third world war - Oceania began).
posted by h00py at 5:20 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


They have the Hemsworth brothers; that alone should give pause. I don't wanna fight Thor.
posted by Windigo at 5:20 AM on February 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


I read somewhere it's spite because he missed out on a casino bid ages ago. Or....he just swings at everyone, if he can't see a compelling reason not to grease them up?
posted by glitter at 5:21 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


So far, with most over-the-top Trump moves, I can sort of see the thinking behind his actions, but what's with badgering the Australian Prime Minister?

Oh, I know this one! It's because he's a deranged narcissistic asshole
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:23 AM on February 2, 2017 [39 favorites]


Honestly? The most plausible reason I’ve seen so far is that he heard the PM was heard of the Liberal party & didn’t understand that that means 'right wing' in Australia.
posted by pharm at 5:24 AM on February 2, 2017 [40 favorites]


You say that as if you didn't have grizzly bears.

They're called Freedom Bears
posted by thelonius at 5:25 AM on February 2, 2017 [15 favorites]


It's negging. Turnbull's nose is as far up the USA's arse as it's possible to get - of course Trump feels like he can say anything. He's an arsehole on a rampage and Australia's PM is trying to be in his gang. All Turnbull is doing is gambling on the fact that the USA will remain triumphant. I'm guessing that's a losing bet, more and more, every day.
posted by h00py at 5:26 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


This Executive Order, if signed, may add the following countries to the travel ban implemented on January 25th: Egypt, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Colombia, Venezuela, southern Philippines, trans-Sahara (Mali), and Sulu/Sulawesi Seas Littoral.

I can't believe that they'd block Egypt, a cornerstone of US policy for 30 years. And el-Sisi and Trump have actually been quite friendly. Who can predict any more though?
posted by rosswald at 5:35 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


As another person pointed out, in regards to the latest incidents, "We have always been at war with Oceania."
posted by jadepearl at 5:39 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm actually willing to believe the White House line (first time for everything) that he missed his naptime and was thus a cranky baby (I may be paraphrasing slightly).

I'm hoping someone says "stamina" in the questions period of the next press briefing. Human spontaneous combustion is so rare, and there are few people I'd rather see it happen to live than Sean Spicer.
posted by jackbishop at 5:40 AM on February 2, 2017 [30 favorites]


I can't believe that they'd block Egypt, a cornerstone of US policy for 30 years. And el-Sisi and Trump have actually been quite friendly. Who can predict any more though?

It's a Muslim ban.

The only Muslims who are exempt from the ban are those who do business with the Trump org. Really simple actually
posted by mumimor at 5:41 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


It's so utterly obvious I can't believe anyone is still questioning what is happening, to be honest.
posted by h00py at 5:42 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


To trump there are two types of people in the world....Chris Christies and people he hasn't smarmed into being Chris Christies yet.
posted by ian1977 at 5:44 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


It's very important that we don't go to war with Australia. They are surrounded from birth by deadly wildlife and would be formidable adversaries.

Weaponized wombats.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 5:44 AM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Friends: I know that self-links are a bit naff, but I didn't want to dump 1800 words into this thread all at once, especially at this late stage. Nevertheless, some of you might get something out of this post at my blog, if the perspective of an Australian/British, lifelong friend of America (with the usual conflicted feelings about all three) has any appeal. Solidarity.
posted by rory at 5:45 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


We don't know what this dangerously unstable man will do with his mind-boggling powers. It is indeed possible that he will destroy the liberal democratic world order. It's possible he will reduce the world to ash. It's also possible, very possible, that he will continue to plummet in popularity, receiving the kind of popularity ratings we saw in South Korea, leading to GOP politicians fearing for their jobs and compromising with the Democrats in making veto-proof legislation to oppose him. It's possible he will be impeached. It's possible even a conservative supreme court will curb his worst excesses. It's possible there will be wave elections of opposition leading to the decimation of the GOP as a national political force. All we can do is reject despair and instead build a grand coalition to push for some of these more positive outcomes. It could happen!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:46 AM on February 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


Weaponized wombats.
C'mon: Combat wombats.
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:47 AM on February 2, 2017 [70 favorites]


Fear not my friends; a combat wombat remains a MORTAL WOMBAT
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:49 AM on February 2, 2017 [41 favorites]


Maybe showing our opponents our vision for how the world should be would be an effective way to take control of the narrative. Like this week we protest and next week we volunteer?

One of the things I read some years ago, that has stuck with me ever since, was a detailed analysis of the Black Panther Party written by people who were there and also people who were trying to oppose it. The black panther party was pretty openly communist, and there is a lot of concern about that at the time. They were hoping to use it as a wedge to turn black people against the party. And the quote that I remember, and think of whenever the sort of thing comes up, is "Communists? I don't hold much with them. But if you come for the free breakfast program, I'm going to kill you."

The black panthers, in addition to the well-publicized patrols with guns and so on and so forth, also created a free breakfast program where they fed the children of the neighborhoods that they were in, along with education, healthcare, and other essentials. These programs were wildly popular, and more than anything else, were one of the reasons the US government moved against them, and the reason why we have free breakfast in school today.

At a certain point, it matters not what people deserve, but what is effective at winning. And volunteering, providing people with services, these are effective.
posted by corb at 5:54 AM on February 2, 2017 [39 favorites]


Do they have....wombattles?
posted by ian1977 at 5:55 AM on February 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


Platypus have poisonous spurs. I say send them in subversively. They are smaller than wombats and everyone instinctively 'awws' when they see them so they can get in close. We send one as a present and say congratulations on your massive inauguration turnout, here's an endangered animal and then *spur to the neck*. Australia is apologetic but triumphant at the same time.

I see no flaws in this plan.
posted by h00py at 5:56 AM on February 2, 2017 [34 favorites]


"It's very important that we don't go to war with Australia. They are surrounded from birth by deadly wildlife and would be formidable adversaries."

Counterpoint: Went to war with emus. Lost.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:58 AM on February 2, 2017 [27 favorites]


And volunteering, providing people with services, these are effective.
Yes, absolutely. But people knew where those services came from, and why.
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:58 AM on February 2, 2017


Matthew McConaughey wants Hollywood to embrace Donald Trump

(Not linking to the article because Foxnews don't need the traffic. Not sure how much of Matt's propaganda-toolery is attributable to stupidity and how much to inner fascism but maybe it's something to keep in mind before giving him or his projects any more money ever again.)

"Matthew McConaughey thinks his fellow actors' attitude about President Donald Trump is not alright, alright, alright.

The actor said in a new interview that it's time for Hollywood to 'embrace' Trump and get over it.

'Well, they don’t have a choice now. He's our president,' he told ChannelFI. 'And, it’s very dynamic and as divisive of an Inauguration and time as we've had. At the same time, it’s time for us to embrace and shake hands with this fact. And be constructive with him over the next four years.'

The 47-year-old said it's okay to strongly disagree with some of Trump's policies but it's important to wait and see how his first term in office plays out.

'So anyone, even those who may strongly disagree with his principles or things he’s said and done — and that’s another thing, we’ll see what he does compares to what he has said — no matter how much you even disagreed along the way, it’s time to think about how constructive can you be,' he shared.

Why is McConaughey taking on this attitude of embracing Trump while his fellow stars are largely against him?

' 'Cause he's our president for the next four years, at least,' he said, 'the President of the United States.' "
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:00 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


"Alt-right, alt-right, alti-right."

- Matthew McConaughey, Dazed and Confused 2017 Remake
posted by Tevin at 6:02 AM on February 2, 2017 [53 favorites]


Matthew McConaughey wants Hollywood to embrace Donald Trump
Alt-right, alt-right, alt-right.
posted by adamgreenfield at 6:03 AM on February 2, 2017 [15 favorites]


God DAMN it Tevin. LOLOLOLOLOL.
posted by adamgreenfield at 6:03 AM on February 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


Matthew McKanye
posted by ian1977 at 6:04 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


I can't believe I have to stop repeating McConaughey now.
posted by armacy at 6:04 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Well, fuck that guy.
posted by dinty_moore at 6:04 AM on February 2, 2017 [19 favorites]


adamgreenfield I think we just became Best Friends.
posted by Tevin at 6:05 AM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Say, man, you got a joint?
posted by adamgreenfield at 6:06 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Maybe he said that before this week, or before this week kicked in. I'm prepared to make one concession for him.
posted by h00py at 6:07 AM on February 2, 2017


Matthew McConaughey wants Hollywood to embrace Donald Trump

texans gonna texan
posted by entropicamericana at 6:08 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


They're called Freedom Bears

*runs to Twitter*

"Why does Betsy DeVos hate our Freedom Bears????????"
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:09 AM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Man, why does it have to be this way Matt? It feels like the time I watched Mom slip out of her skinsuit and saw the moonlight glint on her carapace.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:10 AM on February 2, 2017 [12 favorites]


Trump's Berkeley tweet came minutes after a Fox & Friends segment and tweet about pulling federal funds if no free speech for all. Because of course it did.
posted by chris24 at 6:12 AM on February 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


Its amazing how willing people are to volunteer to be on the wrong side of history for no goddammed reason at all.
posted by ian1977 at 6:13 AM on February 2, 2017 [49 favorites]


Ok so I know they're not popular, but check out the lyric video for Nickelback's newest song "Feed The Machine".

This is what I was waiting for. My parents only listened to oldies music when I was growing up, so I heard all these songs about Vietnam and war.. (Where Have All the Flowers Gone? being the one that sticks out the most) but aside from some more angry music directed at no-one-in-particular.. very few songs I've heard over the years have been about the current political climate. The last one I can think of is a GWB song from Barenaked Ladies.

That's what I feel has the most.. lasting impact. Music people will sing years from now. (although I acknowledge that it's probably not going to be this particular Nickelback song)
posted by INFJ at 6:14 AM on February 2, 2017


Is no-one in the WH tempted to make fake tv shows for Trumplestiltskin to watch, ala Toys to inspire him to do something actually useful, or reasonable?
posted by glitter at 6:14 AM on February 2, 2017


Matthew McConaughey wants Hollywood to embrace Donald Trump
Alt-right, alt-right, alt-right.


Has this man not been giving everyone else the creeps for ages? I never, ever, understood how anyone could like him. He practically screams SLIMEY from across a football field.
posted by INFJ at 6:16 AM on February 2, 2017 [19 favorites]


Yeah he's a creep but there was always the fond hope he was our creep.
posted by ian1977 at 6:17 AM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Like Woody Harrellson is also surely a creepo but there was a while back there when my most fond and heartwarming thoughts were about the two of them unwinding from filming True Detective by sitting crosslegged shirtless and taking bong rips while playing djembe. And now that innocence is taken from us.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:22 AM on February 2, 2017 [15 favorites]


I thought McConaughey was good in Lone Star.
posted by pxe2000 at 6:23 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump at the National Prayer breakfast, referencing Australia call, Trump says: "Don't worry about it. Just don't worry about it."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:24 AM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


Also he's bragging about how much better his Apprentice ratings were than Arnold's are.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 6:26 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Oh, well that's alright then. I have a long memory, you fucker.
posted by h00py at 6:27 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Today I'm concerned that if the groundhog sees his shadow, he might attack it with the full resources of the US military
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:30 AM on February 2, 2017 [13 favorites]


He's an ok actor. I'm mostly referencing my friends and female family members. They are always dreamy-eyed over him and I'm always thinking there is no way on this planet I'd let him anywhere near me.

Give me Ewan and Keanu.
posted by INFJ at 6:30 AM on February 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


Today I'm concerned that I will become stuck in a perpetual time loop with Trump that even death cannot save me from.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:32 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm just glad this shit is happening while I'm on holidays. Surely everything will go back to normal by Monday, right?
posted by h00py at 6:34 AM on February 2, 2017


Once I became aware that McConaughey was a "prosperity christian" more than a few years back, I stopped watching anything he was involved with. I'm disappointed, but not surprised he's backing the orange waste. (I watched Interstellar on Netflix and still feel guilty knowing his centrality to the film.) His role in Contact is pretty consistent with his personal beliefs, except to allow science into his world view. He's a drain of human potential into waste.
posted by michswiss at 6:34 AM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


okay let's play a game

everyone come up with the stupidest thing they can think of for an american president to say or do and let's see if he doesn't top us before he goes to bed tonight
posted by murphy slaw at 6:35 AM on February 2, 2017 [35 favorites]


Give me Ewan and Keanu.

Next month on Fox Entertainment:

Ewan and Keanu: "give the Immortal God Emperor a chance, he hasn't even begun his Great Cleansing yet!"
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:35 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


prosperity christians are hilarious; they're like cheeseburger-munchin', leather-clad vegans
posted by entropicamericana at 6:38 AM on February 2, 2017 [33 favorites]


Hey, does anybody have any sources for the claim that Milo was going to target undocumented students and show pictures + names, the way he did for the trans student? (I believe it, I just want to write something about it and want to make sure the info is ironclad.) Thanks!
posted by pretentious illiterate at 6:39 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]



everyone come up with the stupidest thing they can think of for an american president to say or do and let's see if he doesn't top us before he goes to bed tonight


Okay! He could inhale a bucket of chicken and really just throw caution to the wind with regards to chewing. Tear huge chunks of breast meat (surely his favorite) and then spackle a quivering gob of mashed potatoes into his mouth and just guzzle it, bigly increasing his chances of drowning in lard and expiring at the dinner table.
posted by ian1977 at 6:40 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


The botched operation in Yemen was previouly vetoed by Obama due to weak intel, Trump ordered it done 5 days into his presidency:

Thomas said he did not know why the prior administration did not authorize the operation, but said the Obama administration had effectively exercised a “pocket veto” over it.

A former official said the operation had been reviewed several times, but the underlying intelligence was not judged strong enough to justify the risks, and the case was left to the incoming Trump administration to make its own judgment.

posted by PenDevil at 6:41 AM on February 2, 2017 [48 favorites]


Well, here's a big ol' helping of "we're probably fucked" to start the day: American institutions won't keep us safe from Donald Trump's excesses (Guardian).

This is a country that in the last half-century has managed to undo some of the precious achievements of liberal civilization – the ban on and revulsion against torture, the prohibition on preventive war, the right to organize, the skepticism of the imperial executive – through lawyers, genteel men of the Senate with their august traditions and practices and the supreme court.

The most prized elements of American constitutionalism – shared and fragmented power, compromise and consent, dispersed authority – are the very things that have animated and underwritten Fear, American Style. The most terrible kinds of repression and violence have worked precisely because the constitution has given so many players a piece of the pie.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:44 AM on February 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


This was posted upthread early this morning, but I think it bears (heh) repeating:

Rep. Jason Chaffetz is withdrawing HR 621, the bill that would authorize the "disposal" of "excess" Federal lands.

This is a big deal, and a big win.
posted by anastasiav at 6:49 AM on February 2, 2017 [64 favorites]


texans gonna texan

Yes indeed—to reiterate, Texans showed up in sufficient numbers for Texas Muslim Capitol Day, as threeturtles pointed out, to overwhelm and push back the anti-Muslim protesters who had interfered with the event last year to the point of taking over the podium. Covered on The Rachel Maddow Show last night; I'm not finding a freely-accessible clip, but here's one from The Dallas Morning News.
posted by XMLicious at 6:51 AM on February 2, 2017 [30 favorites]


meanwhile in britain... "reports of anti semitic *incidents* increase to record levels" guess the cause.
posted by xcasex at 6:51 AM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


Man, if President Dennis Kucinich wanted a Supreme Court Justice who started a Fascism Club in 1983

"he was only joking! a boyish jape!"

"you know that's just as bad, right?"
posted by murphy slaw at 6:52 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Mortal Wombats supported by... Climate-exile Dire Penguins.

Good luck with that, Seal Team 6.
posted by notyou at 6:53 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]




This was posted upthread early this morning, but I think it bears (heh) repeating:

Rep. Jason Chaffetz is withdrawing HR 621, the bill that would authorize the "disposal" of "excess" Federal lands.

This is a big deal, and a big win.



Looks like he got push back from hunters that convinced him. I'll take it.
posted by Jalliah at 6:55 AM on February 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


I have never seen Raiders Of The Lost Ark. I managed to turn out anti-fascist regardless.
posted by INFJ at 6:56 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]




Back on the volunteering thing - this is one of the things I was looking into right after the election, and in my area, they tend to fall into a few different categories:

* Giant organizations that tend to expect you to sign up with a group, which is doable but a little intimidating if you're an individual looking for a group in the first place

* Places that were church-affiliated

* Organizations that did not really have the money or the wherewithal to accept volunteers at that time, and would really just prefer if I donated money (which I did). What's notable is that a lot of these places did have more volunteer opportunities before the '08 downturn, but then businesses cut their charitable giving to them and it never really recovered.

I've done a little more research on some of the church-affiliated ones and signed up for a couple others, but part of this is that the non-religious charitable infrastructure has been starved off in the US.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:01 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Like, it's bad enough that I was considering going to temple again. Or sneak back in with the Unitarians and hope nobody notices.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:03 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump cites warnings against Iran; Tehran shrugs off pressures from ‘inexperienced’ president

That's gonna sting. I'm not going to like this game of other countries poking him. I get it. Know why they're doing it but it's damn scary.
posted by Jalliah at 7:03 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


With McConaughey and a lot of other celebrities, the New Age/The Secret/pseudo-Quantum Theory laden positive thinking and self improvement cult lifestyle quatsch that pervades among the society of celebrity elites is going to be hard to overcome. To them, it's unhealthy to face reality head on if that causes too much emotional stress or pain, I think. It's more important to feel secure and confident by that theory, and to play life like a game than to engage with problems that illicit uncomfortable or mixed emotions. It's like a form of psychological Puritanism.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:04 AM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


everyone come up with the stupidest thing they can think of for an american president to say or do and let's see if he doesn't top us before he goes to bed tonight

Claim Antarctica as United States territory
posted by thelonius at 7:04 AM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


Oh FFS:
“We are business people,” the diplomat quoted Greenblatt as saying. “We are not going to govern this country with diplomatic niceties. We are going to govern it as a business.”
I guess since you can't fire citizens, downsizing will have to be achieved via a world war.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:05 AM on February 2, 2017 [18 favorites]


For me to believe Gorsuch even half seriously created a "Fascism Club" requires me to believe that Jesuits, of all people, tolerated such a club at their school. That's a high bar.

I think it's much more likely to be a snarky reference to what they perceived conservative students were perceived as, like when soldiers call themselves baby killers.
posted by corb at 7:05 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Iran trolling Trump now.

I would love it if Iran would, instead of banning Americans in response to the EO, offer us political asylum instead. Can you imagine? He would lose his mind.
posted by something something at 7:05 AM on February 2, 2017 [32 favorites]


So does anyone remember the operant conditioning experiment where mice were punished at random, regardless of whether they completed the experiment or not, and they became erratic and withdrawn?

I feel like I'm getting into this pattern where following the news is uniformly horrible, but withdrawing from the news is also uniformly horrible because when I catch up on it, it's always substantially worse than I expected.
posted by ragtag at 7:05 AM on February 2, 2017 [40 favorites]


Is there a non Daily Mail source yet on the "fascism club" thing? Because I feel very tempted to spread that story around but can't bring myself to treat the Daily Mail as reliable source.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:07 AM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


like when soldiers call themselves baby killers.

Is that.... something they do? Because even ironically, that's pretty fucked up.

ditto forming a Fascism Club
posted by Roommate at 7:07 AM on February 2, 2017 [12 favorites]


sprezzy: "This Executive Order, if signed, may add the following countries to the travel ban implemented on January 25th: Egypt, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Colombia, Venezuela, southern Philippines, trans-Sahara (Mali), and Sulu/Sulawesi Seas Littoral. "

Crap. I had a plan to send a colombian student to the US for a lab visit. I'm sure Mexico is next in line.
posted by dhruva at 7:08 AM on February 2, 2017


I really love the idea of every country that comes in contact with Lord Dampnut just treating him as a child and punishing him with timeouts and whatever the grownup equivalent is.
posted by h00py at 7:09 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm sure Mexico is next in line.

We can't ban travel from Mexico! We need a wall instead.
posted by INFJ at 7:10 AM on February 2, 2017


I think it's much more likely to be a snarky reference to what they perceived conservative students were perceived as, like when soldiers call themselves baby killers.
A U.S. commando died and three others were wounded carrying out a deadly dawn raid on the al Qaeda militant group in southern Yemen on Sunday, in the first military operation authorized by President Donald Trump.

The U.S. military said it killed 14 militants in a raid on a powerful al Qaeda branch that has been a frequent target of U.S. drone strikes. Medics at the scene, however, said around 30 people, including 10 women and children, were killed.
[...]
Eight-year-old Anwar al-Awlaki, the daughter of U.S.-born Yemeni preacher and al Qaeda ideologue Anwar al-Awlaki, was among the children killed in the raid, according to her grandfather. Her father was killed in a U.S. drone strike in 2011.

"She was hit with a bullet in her neck and suffered for two hours," Nasser al-Awlaki told Reuters. "Why kill children? This is the new (U.S.) administration - it's very sad, a big crime."
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:10 AM on February 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


Claim Antarctica as United States territory

An exercise for the reader: have I already lost teh contest?
Trump kicks off National Prayer Breakfast by attacking Arnold Schwarzenegger's Apprentice ratings
posted by thelonius at 7:10 AM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


Guys, can you all just agree to disagree and shut up about to-volunteer-or-not? If you want to post resources for volunteering, that would be awesome and most appreciated, but the back and forth on whether it's a good idea or not is tiresome. This election has made it abundantly and painfully clear that most liberals have enormous baggage with classism and a poor understanding of intersectionality. It feels like that is where most of the objections to volunteering, community outreach, etc. are coming from. I have enough on my plate as it is; I am beyond tired of seeing my "allies" repeating the lie that rural and poor people are overwhelmingly white overt racists. There are a lot of people in rural areas who are having real problems who are at risk of falling entirely through the cracks during this regime's rule. I can assure you that most of them would totally appreciate any kind of outreach you can manage! (as long as you aren't going to be a condescending bigot about it) If you really don't care about people of color, women, LGBT people, disabled people and, yes, even poor white people falling down and not getting up, then kindly return your "ally" card and move on, please. Supporting policies that hurt poor people out of a false notion that it was us who voted in Trump and we should "get what we deserve" hurts the most at risk groups in the country. Thanks.
posted by byanyothername at 7:12 AM on February 2, 2017 [59 favorites]


Arnold is trolling Trump. Watch the video.

@Schwarzenegger:
The National Prayer Breakfast? [video of Arnold statement]
posted by chris24 at 7:14 AM on February 2, 2017 [18 favorites]


Trolling the President of the USA. It's just so ridiculous that this could even be a thing. And yet, here we are. It's possible he'll even reply. Lucks a fucking lawdy.
posted by h00py at 7:18 AM on February 2, 2017 [12 favorites]


I see the added counries list still omits Saudi Arabia. Maybe it's because the terrorists have reformed not. Or maybe because they 'fessed up to misleading everyone.
posted by adamvasco at 7:19 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Is that.... something they do? Because even ironically, that's pretty fucked up.

Eh, it's... a very specific kind of dark humor that relies on the fact that complex issues are often simplified by the public in ways that make soldiers appear to have no morals. So you might say, for example, your complex thoughts on something, then say bleakly, "But eh, I'm just a baby killer, what do I know?" The leftist versions would be something like "I'm just a dirty commie, what do i know?" The humor is in the difference between perception and reality, because the answer is often "a lot more than you think."
posted by corb at 7:20 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


@Schwarzenegger:
The National Prayer Breakfast? [video of Arnold statement]


I guess Arnie has finally had it. 'Okay you wanna do this? Then lets just do this. I can't believe I have to do this."
His responses to Trump have been steadily getting more and more pissed and less diplomatic.
posted by Jalliah at 7:20 AM on February 2, 2017 [22 favorites]


"he was only joking! a boyish jape!"

A Hitler-Youthful indiscretion!
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:22 AM on February 2, 2017 [34 favorites]


One gets the feeling this raid was initially rejected for reasons that are evidently clear now.
posted by Artw at 7:22 AM on February 2, 2017 [28 favorites]


For me to believe Gorsuch even half seriously created a "Fascism Club" requires me to believe that Jesuits, of all people, tolerated such a club at their school. That's a high bar.

As someone who lived in the DC area in the 80s, not too far from Georgetown Prep, I can 100% believe that they'd let him get away with it.

I think it's much more likely to be a snarky reference to what they perceived conservative students were perceived as, like when soldiers call themselves baby killers.

Maybe my moral compass is just fucked up, but I'd give serious side-eye to anyone that jokingly referred to themselves in public as a baby killer if they're going to be appointed to one of the highest positions in the country. Same with some guy who starts a "Fascism Club" who will actually be determining how cool it is to actually kill babies by a number of methods (including but not limited to special operations and drones, revocation of their health care, destruction of their safety net, and being handed over to abusive Christians over loving LGBTQ parents).
posted by zombieflanders at 7:22 AM on February 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


Not sure if this has been posted: Trump sees himself as the producer of his own epic film. Explains the ratings obsession.
posted by dhruva at 7:23 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


These days I make no assumptions about pretend fascism actually being pretend whatsoever.
posted by Artw at 7:24 AM on February 2, 2017 [18 favorites]


Compare and contrast.
posted by ian1977 at 7:24 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


1:37;13 for Trumps 'prayer'

wrong timestamp. flagged to delete
posted by ian1977 at 7:27 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Compare and contrast.

*sigh* I'd rather not thanks. Skipping Where The Red Fern Grows and other things that make me unsustainably sad for today as well.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:27 AM on February 2, 2017




Chances we'd see a Supremely Court nominee get anywhere with "communism club" in their resume are roughly nil.
posted by Artw at 7:29 AM on February 2, 2017 [22 favorites]


It would probably be horrible if it happens, but I'm kind of curious what line Trump would have to cross that would be a step to far for Republicans.
posted by drezdn at 7:30 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]




Sam Kriss in Politico: Liberals on the Edge of a Nervous Breakdown
As thousands blockade airports and fill up city streets, a new generation of amateur Kremlinologists is coming forward with its hastily assembled theories, assembled from bureaucratic signifiers, to say that by trying to stop the harm he’s actually doing, all we’ve done is play into his tiny, tiny hands.

In the last few days, two Medium posts that quickly seeped through the cloistered know-it-all sector of the internet have exemplified this weird form of politics. The first, “Trial Balloon for a Coup?,” is by one Yonatan Zunger; the second, more forceful piece, comes from Jake Fuentes, and is titled “The Immigration Ban is a Headfake, and We’re Falling For It.” Both tread largely the same ground: They argue that the chaos and indeterminacy surrounding Trump’s ban on travel to the United States by anyone from seven Muslim-majority nations was actually a devious ploy. This is done through some very familiar techniques. Which positions are still unfilled at the State Department? Why did Trump’s statement on Holocaust Remembrance Day not make any mention of Jews? And why, of all people, was it Reince Priebus who defended that decision, when it’s not part of his usual job? And, like with the old Russia-watchers, these questions lead us to the idea that nothing is irrelevant, but that something monstrous is afoot.

Some of these conclusions are straightforwardly true. Zunger tells us that “the aims of crushing various groups—Muslims, Latinos, the black and trans communities, academics, the press—are very much primary aims of the regime”—but you don’t need a sophisticated analysis of bureaucratic sub-departments to know that; just basic reading comprehension.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:31 AM on February 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


I just realized that if Trump only reads the summaries on things, his staffers could easily get him to sign whatever they want by ginning up the summaries.
posted by drezdn at 7:31 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Thomas said he did not know why the prior administration did not authorize the operation, but said the Obama administration had effectively exercised a “pocket veto” over it.

A former official said the operation had been reviewed several times, but the underlying intelligence was not judged strong enough to justify the risks, and the case was left to the incoming Trump administration to make its own judgment.


Okay, this is when we start screaming BENGHAZI BENGHAZI BENGHAZI every time Spicer or any Republican in Congress opens their mouth, right?

Fuck it, gimme some press credentials and I'll go do it.
posted by lydhre at 7:31 AM on February 2, 2017 [18 favorites]


Unconventional and fucking unprofessional. Professional, you remember when that meant something, right?
posted by h00py at 7:31 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


It would probably be horrible if it happens, but I'm kind of curious what line Trump would have to cross that would be a step to far for Republicans.

If he raised taxes on the rich by a single penny.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:32 AM on February 2, 2017 [17 favorites]


Looks like more beans are being spilled.

US military officials: Trump-ordered raid in Yemen that killed US Navy SEAL was approved 'without sufficient intelligence'

US military officials told Reuters that Trump approved his first covert counterterrorism operation without sufficient intelligence, ground support, or adequate backup preparations.

As a result, three officials said, the attacking SEAL team found itself dropping onto a reinforced Al Qaeda base defended by landmines, snipers, and a larger-than-expected contingent of heavily armed Islamist extremists.



TLDR: Target identified by Obama admin. Tentative op planned. Didn't proceed due to lack of good intelligence. Trump decided to do it anyway. Big fuck up. WH tried to mumble hide it. Truth is now coming out from the military.
posted by Jalliah at 7:32 AM on February 2, 2017 [74 favorites]


It would probably be horrible if it happens, but I'm kind of curious what line Trump would have to cross that would be a step to far for Republicans.

pretty sure he could bust theresa may's head open like a ripe cantaloupe and feast on her brains on live TV as long as he keeps his veto pen locked in a desk drawer
posted by murphy slaw at 7:33 AM on February 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


everyone come up with the stupidest thing they can think of for an american president to say or do and let's see if he doesn't top us before he goes to bed tonight

Casually mention that the Superbowl is for sissies and World Cup soccer is a terrorist training ground.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:35 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Truth is now coming out from the military.

The media I've seen (CNN this morning) felt like it was blaming Obama for it, because of course...
posted by drezdn at 7:35 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


I wish we were in this timeline.

Oh, if only people had liked Hitler's paintings, we'd all live in a nicer world!
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:36 AM on February 2, 2017



"They are growing on me," House Speaker Paul Ryan says of Trump's tweets, on Fox News. "This is going to be an unconventional presidency."

Evil, not spineless.


I think Ryan might be some level of sociopath. People keep asking how can he not care, has he know shame etc. Maybe he just doesn't care because he can't.
posted by Jalliah at 7:36 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


"They are growing on me," House Speaker Paul Ryan says of Trump's tweets.

I recommend an antifungal.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:37 AM on February 2, 2017 [32 favorites]


It would probably be horrible if it happens, but I'm kind of curious what line Trump would have to cross that would be a step to far for Republicans.

Something that would get them primaried by people equally insane as Trump, and I really can't think of anything. Getting really insistent on doing something non-horrible, I guess? But that seems unlikely to happen.
posted by Artw at 7:38 AM on February 2, 2017


Also lord dampnut has close to 90% approval among self-identified Republicans so Ryan can't really speak ill of him unless he's very brave, and he is not very brave.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:38 AM on February 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


Evil, not spineless.

Evil and spineless.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 7:40 AM on February 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


"All over the country I hear 5 words that never fail to touch my heart. And that's 'I. Am. Praying. For you.'"

He is a god-king now.
posted by ian1977 at 7:40 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


I don't think it'll be today, but my inner what's-the-worst-unsurprising-thing-coming ticker is counting down till he forcibly kisses one of the WH staff.
posted by Mchelly at 7:40 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


In all the craziness, I only just got around to watching the Where's Rudy video. If you haven't watched it, you should. A written description can't do it justice. The "best" part is the way the camera pans back at the end and you gradually realize just how close Rudy was.
posted by diogenes at 7:41 AM on February 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


"All over the country I hear 5 words that never fail to touch my heart. And that's 'I. Am. Praying. For you.'"

He always stops listening before they say "To. Explode."
posted by murphy slaw at 7:41 AM on February 2, 2017 [34 favorites]


PLEASE assume a link has been posted before and check before dropping it for the third time in this thread. Odds are very high you weren't the first one to see it and post.
posted by agregoli at 7:42 AM on February 2, 2017 [12 favorites]



I don't think it'll be today, but my inner what's-the-worst-unsurprising-thing-coming ticker is counting down till he forcibly kisses one of the WH staff.


There was a dance with a member of the armed forces that came pretty close.
posted by drezdn at 7:43 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Is it ok with you if I talk about something that happened earlier?

(I included the link because it can be hard to relocate a link among thousands of comments.)
posted by diogenes at 7:44 AM on February 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


To be fair I bet Ghouliani was flickering in and out of reality so it is possible that he truly couldn't see him initially.
posted by ian1977 at 7:44 AM on February 2, 2017 [30 favorites]


In all the craziness, I only just got around to watching the Where's Rudy video.

WTF?!?
posted by drezdn at 7:45 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Actually, you were probably talking about the Yemen links. Yeah, we could have had a few less of those.
posted by diogenes at 7:47 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm guessing he'll actually call Angela Merkel a bitch at some stage, during a press conference, and everyone nearby will titter and press their microphones in closer.
posted by h00py at 7:48 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Terrorism is a fundamental threat to religious freedom. It must be stopped and it will be stopped. It may not be pretty for a little while. It will be stopped."

I concur. It will not be pretty.
posted by ian1977 at 7:48 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Guys, can you all just agree to disagree and shut up about to-volunteer-or-not? If you want to post resources for volunteering, that would be awesome and most appreciated, but the back and forth on whether it's a good idea or not is tiresome. This election has made it abundantly and painfully clear that most liberals have enormous baggage with classism and a poor understanding of intersectionality. It feels like that is where most of the objections to volunteering, community outreach, etc. are coming from. I have enough on my plate as it is; I am beyond tired of seeing my "allies" repeating the lie that rural and poor people are overwhelmingly white overt racists. There are a lot of people in rural areas who are having real problems who are at risk of falling entirely through the cracks during this regime's rule. I can assure you that most of them would totally appreciate any kind of outreach you can manage! (as long as you aren't going to be a condescending bigot about it) If you really don't care about people of color, women, LGBT people, disabled people and, yes, even poor white people falling down and not getting up, then kindly return your "ally" card and move on, please. Supporting policies that hurt poor people out of a false notion that it was us who voted in Trump and we should "get what we deserve" hurts the most at risk groups in the country. Thanks.

Sorry, I think there really does have to be a discussion about the charitable infrastructure in the US before we can talk about organizing large waves of new volunteers. Because the people who are accepting the donations might not care about who is volunteering, but I can guarantee that the organizers really fucking do. And there's a reason why they don't advertise volunteer opportunities outside of Sunday mass - it's because they want these charitable groups to be very much an in-group thing, and those of us that aren't members of that religious organization aren't part of that in-group.

Look, part of the screening process I did for volunteer opportunities was to casually drop that I was a queer Jew in the middle of it and see if there was any backpedaling or pressure to attend services that might happen with the volunteering, and that cut out a whole lot of people right away. And not even right-wing churches, some of these were pretty liberal Lutherans. They don't want me with them.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:49 AM on February 2, 2017 [19 favorites]


CDC Seeks Controversial New Quarantine Powers To Stop Outbreaks

With the new rules, the CDC would be able to detain people anywhere in the country without getting approval from state and local officials.

The agency could also apprehend people to assess their health if they are exhibiting medical problems such as a high fever, headache, cramps and other symptoms that could be indicative of a dangerous infectious disease.

posted by theodolite at 7:49 AM on February 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


The Arnold thing doesn't bother me. Par for the course. Threatening the Johnson Amendment, on the other hand, makes me want to find out how much brandy I can drink in one sitting.
posted by delfin at 7:50 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


> Sorry, I think there really does have to be a discussion about the charitable infrastructure in the US before we can talk about organizing large waves of new volunteers.

Can we do that in a separate thread, MeTa, or MeMail though? I personally don't think this thread is the place to have that conversation.
posted by Tevin at 7:50 AM on February 2, 2017 [22 favorites]


@realdonaldtrump Iran has been formally PUT ON NOTICE for firing a ballistic missile.Should have been thankful for the terrible deal the U.S. made with them!

I feel like "put on notice" is a little imprecise when it comes to language that could lead to war.
posted by diogenes at 7:52 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


"We have seen a campaign of Isis and genocide against Christians where they cut off heads. not since the middle ages have we seen that. We haven't seen that. The cutting off of heads. Now they cut off heads. They drown people in metal cages. Haven't seen this. Haven't seen this. Nobody's seen this. For many many years. "

from the prayer brekkie.
posted by ian1977 at 7:52 AM on February 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'd say there's a substantial difference in both kind and degree between a passing snarky "but what do I know, I'm just a baby killer" comment and, say, forming and maintaining a "Baby Killers Club" for 4 years.
posted by Roommate at 7:53 AM on February 2, 2017 [17 favorites]


With the new rules, the CDC would be able to detain people anywhere in the country without getting approval from state and local officials.

The agency could also apprehend people to assess their health if they are exhibiting medical problems such as a high fever, headache, cramps and other symptoms that could be indicative of a dangerous infectious disease.


This was proposed and readied to put in place during the last administration. How the fuck did Obama not think that this was going to be horrifically misused? I can't for the life of me comprehend this and so much else that he allowed to be handed to the Bad Man.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:55 AM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


This morning the House approved a resolution killing SEC requirement for oil, gas, and mining companies to disclose payments to foreign governments. (Reuters Business)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:55 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


we have seen a campaign and presidency of a man who can't form a sentence. not since the founding of the nation have we seen that. we haven't seen that. the inability to form a sentence. now he can't form a sentence. he speaks in scattered fragments. haven't seen this. haven't seen this. nobody's seen this. for as long as we can remember.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:55 AM on February 2, 2017 [52 favorites]


With the new rules, the CDC would be able to detain people anywhere in the country without getting approval from state and local officials.

The agency could also apprehend people to assess their health if they are exhibiting medical problems such as a high fever, headache, cramps and other symptoms that could be indicative of a dangerous infectious disease.


And here I thought it was the FEMA camps that awaited us.
posted by lydhre at 7:56 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


Actually, you were probably talking about the Yemen links. Yeah, we could have had a few less of those.

I posted mine in response to a comment that dismissed the idea of Jesuits tolerating a Fascism Club because it was probably just a dark joke, like how the troops sometimes call themselves child killers. But as the link shows, the troops actually do kill kids. Likewise, Republicans can joke "ha ha, aren't we fascists" while calling for the National Guard to occupy Chicago and kill themselves some urban youths.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:56 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


The forming of sentences. Not happening. Never. Not in a long time.
posted by ian1977 at 7:57 AM on February 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


Kind of feeling like Trump is going to drag us all into a war most people don't want to get into.
posted by drezdn at 7:57 AM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


What the fuck does PUT ON NOTICE even mean?

Formally speaking.
posted by notyou at 8:00 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


I think this guy has taken the phrase 'leader of the free world' a bit too fucking seriously. He can barely comprehend legislation of any kind, and he thinks he can threaten everyone, even his allies, and not get any pushback? He can't handle domestic issues and he's out there shoving out his chest on international fronts all over the place? It's a laugh, it's a nightmare, it's a fucking joke.

I'm not from there, so it's a step removed, but holy shit you guys. Our government sucks but holy fucking shit.
posted by h00py at 8:00 AM on February 2, 2017 [15 favorites]


From the mexican end, I feel he's probably going to escalate by 'targeted' drone strikes on some 'bad hombres'.
posted by dhruva at 8:00 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


'scuse me. Just a bit kerfuffled right now. I'll rein it in.
posted by h00py at 8:02 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


@realdonaldtrump Iran has been formally PUT ON NOTICE for firing a ballistic missile.Should have been thankful for the terrible deal the U.S. made with them!

I feel like "put on notice" is a little imprecise when it comes to language that could lead to war.


From the people who brought you 'Obama's Syria Red Line Was Stupid', an exciting new low in ill-defined war rhetoric.
posted by chris24 at 8:02 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


So, corb, I'm sure you're busy, but if you get a chance I would be very interested to know about what the military community's reaction has been to this:

"US military officials told Reuters that Trump approved his first covert counterterrorism operation without sufficient intelligence, ground support, or adequate backup preparations.

As a result, three officials said, the attacking SEAL team found itself dropping onto a reinforced Al Qaeda base defended by landmines, snipers, and a larger-than-expected contingent of heavily armed Islamist extremists."

posted by a fiendish thingy at 8:02 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Kind of feeling like Trump is going to drag us all into a war most people don't want to get into.

Considering the percentage of the US budget dedicated to the DOD and the 25-35% unemployment Chalmers Johnson said would happen if Ron Paul's 'cut the military' plan was to happen - what do you THINK that money is being spent on? Tea and crumpets?
posted by rough ashlar at 8:03 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


personally i'm working on a final bon mot to post on metafilter when the missiles are airborne.
i wonder how many faves it will earn before the servers are vaporized
posted by entropicamericana at 8:03 AM on February 2, 2017 [30 favorites]


The forming of sentences. Not happening. Never. Not in a long time.

The worst is. It is the worst. Is I found with some Trump supporters. Some of them. Not all. That writing like Trump. Talk like him. Repeat important words. Repeat them a few times. Just you know repeat for emphasis does seem to work. Also use very simple words. No complicated big words. Just simple and and basic phrasing. This code switching is the worst. Really is the worst because I find it seeping into the rest of my life.
posted by Jalliah at 8:04 AM on February 2, 2017 [25 favorites]


It's like he is the anti-yoda. Adoy?
posted by ian1977 at 8:06 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Kind of feeling like Trump is going to drag us all into a war most people don't want to get into.

Which one? In Iran, in China, in Mexico, in Australia, in Washington, D.C., or in Berkeley?
posted by delfin at 8:06 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


Metafilter: i wonder how many faves it will earn before the servers are vaporized
posted by dis_integration at 8:06 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


personally i'm working on a final bon mot to post on metafilter when the missiles are airborne.

I've posted on things you people wouldn't believe.

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Iran.

I watched cluster bombs glitter in the dark near the Qur'an Gate.

All these favorites will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

Time to die.
posted by chris24 at 8:07 AM on February 2, 2017 [14 favorites]


personally i'm working on a final bon mot to post on metafilter when the missiles are airborne.

Is this something I would have to be alive to understand?
posted by shothotbot at 8:08 AM on February 2, 2017 [12 favorites]


what do you THINK that money is being spent on?

The general public seems to be ok with military spending in the abstract, but they also seem fatigued with the number of conflicts this country has been involved in lately. After all, some people (Assange) said they preferred Trump because they thought he was less likely to start another war.
posted by drezdn at 8:08 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Trump is 100% definitely going to drag us into a war we don't want to get into. Or more precisely, Bannon is. Amid all the gross scandals of the campaign, attacks on Rosie O'Donell, "Lil Marco," The Access Hollywood tapes, Trump University and made-in-China ties, the vulgar celebrity reality show stuff, somehow that did not get enough attention. But every time he opened his mouth about foreign relations or national security all I heard was "War war war war war." That's always been the scariest thing about him, to me. "Take the oil," Torture works" "You have to take out their families," "Bomb the shit out of them." What did he think was going to happen? What did anyone think? He was rattling sabers before he even got elected. Hundreds of foreign policy professionals, including Republican ones, signed open letters saying he was dangerous, gave interviews the media saying he was dangerous. They tried to warn us.

Take a look again at that 2014 Steve Bannon speech.

Regarding WWII, he says it was "...really the Judeo-Christian West versus atheists, right? The underlying principle is an enlightened form of capitalism, that capitalism really gave us the wherewithal."

And then there's this:
"...They believe that at least Putin is standing up for traditional institutions, and he's trying to do it in a form of nationalism — and I think that people, particularly in certain countries, want to see the sovereignty for their country, they want to see nationalism for their country. They don't believe in this kind of pan-European Union or they don't believe in the centralized government in the United States. They'd rather see more of a states-based entity that the founders originally set up where freedoms were controlled at the local level."
(It seems clear to me that Steve Bannon is describing his own movement here, and that he does not believe in the "centralized government of the United States.")

But the really dangerous part is this:
"Now that call converges with something we have to face, and it’s a very unpleasant topic, but we are in an outright war against jihadist Islamic fascism. And this war is, I think, metastasizing far quicker than governments can handle it."
...
"That war is expanding and it’s metastasizing to sub-Saharan Africa. We have Boko Haram and other groups that will eventually partner with ISIS in this global war, and it is, unfortunately, something that we’re going to have to face, and we’re going to have to face very quickly."
He's not afraid to start a world war war because he thinks it's inevitable anyway, I guess, or even that it has already started. The "Judeo-Christian West" vs "Radical Islam." (Most Jews I know really don't have much interest in demonizing people for their religion or ethnicity, though...)

He also dismissed all accusations of racism against the Tea Party or European Nationalist parties, even as he repeats the words "Judeo-Christian West" over and over again.

He is eager to get on with this war, I think, which he feels is inevitable and has already begun.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:08 AM on February 2, 2017 [23 favorites]



personally i'm working on a final bon mot to post on metafilter when the missiles are airborne.


administrator! please hope me!!!
posted by drezdn at 8:09 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


'Time remaining to edit before world annihilation: 0:25'
posted by ian1977 at 8:09 AM on February 2, 2017 [13 favorites]




Yeah, I don't think there is a way to formally put someone on notice, since there's no established formal definition of what being "on notice" entails. It's just kind of a vague threat of physical assault or financial/legal retribution, as I understand it, the kind of thing one yells over the phone at a shady business contact or across the sports bar at the guy one thinks is is badmouthing one's girl.
posted by contraption at 8:12 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


This morning I thought "I wonder what the last Tweet will be?"

When some alien civilization is sifting through the rubble of our misery and stumble on Twitter what will be the final thing on the timeline?
posted by Tevin at 8:12 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Jews don't say "Judeo-Christian." It's a word Dominionists use to sound less theocratic.
posted by theodolite at 8:13 AM on February 2, 2017 [83 favorites]


Question for US History people: when was the last time the USA entered a war without popular support? Is there precedent for engaging in a war that (say) 2/3 of the country did not want?
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:14 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


The general public seems to be ok with military spending in the abstract, but they also seem fatigued with the number of conflicts this country has been involved in lately. After all, some people (Assange) said they preferred Trump because they thought he was less likely to start another war.

Bannon is letting Trump run with this shit because ideally he wants someone else to swing first or do something that WH propaganda can make it look like they swung first. Then it's not Trump's fault he has no choice blah blah.

Provoking, button pushing and at times literally standing and screaming in someone's face in order to try to get them to swing first is White Nationalist political strategy 101.
posted by Jalliah at 8:14 AM on February 2, 2017 [17 favorites]


personally i'm working on a final bon mot to post on metafilter when the missiles are airborne.

I have no idea how these people got their nazis wedged into their governments, or why.
posted by Drastic at 8:15 AM on February 2, 2017 [34 favorites]


Question for US History people: when was the last time the USA entered a war without popular support? Is there precedent for engaging in a war that say 2/3 of the country did not want?

My question is how many members of the military will be brave and refuse to abide by a reckless Commander in Chief who doesn't seem to care if they die.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:15 AM on February 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


What the fuck does PUT ON NOTICE even mean?

Diplomatically speaking it's the step before "double secret probation".
posted by Omon Ra at 8:17 AM on February 2, 2017 [24 favorites]


it's what comes before "you got served!"
posted by indubitable at 8:17 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]




Regarding WWII, he says it was '...really the Judeo-Christian West versus atheists, right? The underlying principle is an enlightened form of capitalism, that capitalism really gave us the wherewithal.'

Atheist/Communist Soviet Union: 1
Christian/Capitalist Nazi Germany: 0

Christian/Capitalist United States: 1
Shinto/Capitalist Japan: 0
posted by kirkaracha at 8:18 AM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]




Question for US History people: when was the last time the USA entered a war without popular support? Is there precedent for engaging in a war that (say) 2/3 of the country did not want?
The buildup to The Iraq War was preceded by the biggest popular protest in the history of the world only exceeded by last month's Women's March. It still happened.

Popular protest by itself will not make this President back down. Having stood outside the UN with hundreds of thousands others (and millions worldwide) on February 15. 2003, I guarantee that simply taking to the streets will not change the minds of people who want war. You have to get the military to say that they won't do it.
posted by bl1nk at 8:19 AM on February 2, 2017 [38 favorites]


With McConaughey and a lot of other celebrities, the New Age/The Secret/pseudo-Quantum Theory laden positive thinking and self improvement cult lifestyle quatsch that pervades among the society of celebrity elites is going to be hard to overcome. To them, it's unhealthy to face reality head on if that causes too much emotional stress or pain, I think.

Mmm, I'd buy that if, like, Oprah or Gwyneth Paltrow were on board with the "eh, just roll with Trump" train or -

OH GOD DAMMIT
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:20 AM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


personally i'm working on a final bon mot to post on metafilter when the missiles are airborne.

I've already picked mine:

"B-b-but her emails!"
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 8:21 AM on February 2, 2017 [23 favorites]


I have never seen Raiders Of The Lost Ark. I managed to turn out anti-fascist regardless.
posted by INFJ at 8:56 on February 2 [1 favorite +] [!]


I know people are wondering what they can do to help, and there's been some talk about volunteering upthread. But one thing that MeFites can do right now is get INFJ a copy of Raiders so they can watch it as soon as possible.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:22 AM on February 2, 2017 [28 favorites]


I think despite the panicking going on, the calculus for Democrat's best Supreme Court strategy is pretty simple. IF there is a supreme court vacancy, AND Trump nominates a conservative judge (there is no longer a reason to suspect he will not in future), AND there is a GOP Senate, AND the Dems filibuster, THEN the GOP Senate will destroy the filibuster for nominees. It's a cast-iron guarantee.

Given this, Democrats should observe that they now have an excellent technical and moral reason to oppose Gorsuch's nomination: the theft of the seat from Garland. This is not a political rationale, it's based on fairness. The GOP will be forced to do away with the filibuster for nominees (which is what they would be doing next time they face opposition to a judicial nominee anyway), and the Dems will get points for having some backbone.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:23 AM on February 2, 2017 [15 favorites]


I wish there was more analysis in the media about how dangerous the Isis goons really are. They are not a superpower, they are a bunch of murderous gangsters with small arms and rocket launchers, and I think Obama was absolutely correct in his "JV" assessment that has been spun as a big gaffe. They're a concern, sure, and morally I think they're repugnant and should be opposed, but in national security terms they pose nowhere near the threat posed by other nuclear superpowers gone rogue like, just say for instance, Russia.
posted by contraption at 8:24 AM on February 2, 2017 [15 favorites]


The buildup to The Iraq War was preceded by the biggest popular protest in the history of the world only exceed by last month's Women's March. It still happened.

Popular protest by itsel will not make this President back down. I guarantee that. You have to get the military to say that they won't do it.


Despite the protests, for the year prior to invasion, support for war was never lower than 52% of the US and always had at least a 10% advantage over against, and averaged a 20% advantage.

Not saying popular opinion/protests will stop Trump, but we're not yet in a situation where a majority of Americans support another war.
posted by chris24 at 8:24 AM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


all the indiana jones films are on hulu right now. even the one that doesn't exist.
posted by valkane at 8:25 AM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


they pose nowhere near the threat posed by other nuclear superpowers gone rogue like, just say for instance, Russia.

and do you know who else is a nuclear superpower gone rogue?
posted by entropicamericana at 8:26 AM on February 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


Random observation on _rump's broad and far-reaching low popularity: in addition to his initial dismal poll as president, Yahoo has an interesting feature where they give a preview of the comment break-down in three emojis: happy, neutral, unhappy. For example, look at the Politics page, where every. single. "popular post" has under 10% "happy about the articles, most are 5% or less happy, and 25-30% unhappy. And of course, all about _rump now.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:28 AM on February 2, 2017


I don't think rogue is the right term, it implies that there is a plan and a goal and some measure of control in getting through the plan to the goal.

The Trump admin is insane much like the leadership of North Korea.
posted by Slackermagee at 8:29 AM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Eyeing the House, Democrats move to hire operatives in 20 GOP-held districts

This is the kind of stuff that I want to see from the Democrats. Ever since Dean left, they seem to have an aversion to even fighting for districts.
posted by octothorpe at 8:29 AM on February 2, 2017 [84 favorites]


Regarding WWII, he says it was "...really the Judeo-Christian West versus atheists, right? The underlying principle is an enlightened form of capitalism, that capitalism really gave us the wherewithal."

you know who else conceived of the war as the West's grand struggle against atheism
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:32 AM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


Now Tillerson is trolling Trump?

@BraddJaffy
Rex Tillerson jokes about running late: “It seemed that this year’s Prayer Breakfast, people felt the need to pray a little longer.” [video]
posted by chris24 at 8:33 AM on February 2, 2017 [17 favorites]



Eyeing the House, Democrats move to hire operatives in 20 GOP-held districts

This is the kind of stuff that I want to see from the Democrats. Ever since Dean left, they seem to have an aversion to even fighting for districts.


I want to be an operative. They should hire me.
posted by Jalliah at 8:34 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Or more probably mocking people's concerns I guess?
posted by chris24 at 8:34 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


we're not yet in a situation where a majority of Americans support another war.

If some other nation were to be provoked into attacking us, then in the aftermath of that attack, the situation would likely be different.

I think other countries suspect that Trump is trying to provoke them, and are consciously not taking the bait. They are perhaps hoping that he will be brought down by internal opposition anyway. But they can't necessarily control non-state actors.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:36 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Where I agree with Trump:

If Trump University was a legitimate university, Trump is a legitimate president.
If 3 to 5 million illegal aliens voted for Hillary (via the Area 51 alien voting project), Trump is a legitimate president.
If Trump did win the debates in "every poll," then he is not a simpering inarticulate moron.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:36 AM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


The GOP will be forced to do away with the filibuster for nominees (which is what they would be doing next time they face opposition to a judicial nominee anyway), and the Dems will get points for having some backbone.

Add to this the real possibility that 2018 will bring a shift in control and that the lack of a filibuster option will play to our advantage.
posted by contraption at 8:37 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


I just got a report from a sober, long-established Wall Street research firm: "Trump’s path to war – the China case"
posted by shothotbot at 8:37 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Not saying popular opinion/protests will stop Trump, but we're not yet in a situation where a majority of Americans support another war.
that's just fake news telling you that. Trump has been voted in by the greatest landslide in the history of the world, and the will of the American people speaks through his voice. This is for the safety of our children. Do you want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud?

(god, I felt so dumb just writing that. More plainly spoken: do you think popular support is actually going to matter?)
posted by bl1nk at 8:38 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]



Question for US History people: when was the last time the USA entered a war without popular support? Is there precedent for engaging in a war that say 2/3 of the country did not want?


Here's a counter question:

Not that I particularly WANT to get my war on, but we have formal allies, who have sacrificed their soldiers fighting alongside us. Trump just insulted a particularly important one (and my former country, to boot. Thanks, Donnie)

The Trump noise machine is already conditioning the population to accept the abandonment of our allies in the Baltic. What happens if Russia attacks Estonia, and Trump pulls back American support for repelling the invasion?

That's what has me losing sleep at night.
posted by ocschwar at 8:38 AM on February 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


Count me as someone is who disappointing that the Berkeley protests turned violent. I'd really like to see nonviolence as the guiding principle for the left, though I know that's hard given all the disparate movements and perspectives under the progressive umbrella.
posted by megancita at 8:41 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Can I humbly request that we tone down the rhetoric around which countries Trump decides to target with his bans? Speculating that Indonesia is not included despite having the largest Muslim population because Trump doesn't believe South East Asians can be "dangerous", or that the reason Saudi Arabia was not targeted is because of Trump's business interests there is coming off as really tone-deaf to this Green Card holder from a country that Trump may or may not get around to. These are real lives at stake, and the ban would not become less cruel if it were somehow more "logical". Blanket banning people from particular countries should be obviously wrong.
posted by peacheater at 8:42 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


Jalliah: I want to be an operative. They should hire me.

Be the (agent of) change you wish to see. (Of course, paying yourself is tricky, if agent of change is your full-time gig.)
posted by filthy light thief at 8:42 AM on February 2, 2017


Trump World — Including Steve Bannon — Is Already Looking At The 2018 Midterms “The days of [Senate Majority Leader Mitch] McConnell picking Republican nominees in Senate races are over,” Bannon has told the donors, according to sources familiar with the meetings. He also mentioned the U.S. Chamber of Commerce as declining in influence, according to one of those sources.

America First Nazi Party is looking to expand its majority already.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:42 AM on February 2, 2017 [17 favorites]


Oh yeah, he's alienating ALL our allies. The EU has added him to their "threat list." Over one million Britons have signed a petition to rescind his state-visit invitation (though May has said she won't.) Canadian MPs are denouncing him on the floor of parliament. (Facebook link.) We heard what just happened with Australia. He has alienated Mexico and pretty much all points south with his "build a wall" rhetoric and railing against Latino immigrants.

If Bannon does get his global war, it's going to be us and Russia against the whole rest of the world, I'm afraid.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:44 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Evil, not spineless.

But wait guys, Paul Ryan is actually both though.
posted by Cookiebastard at 8:44 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]




Count me as someone is who disappointing that the Berkeley protests turned violent.

Had Milo's speech gone ahead, that would have been more violent.
posted by avocet at 8:45 AM on February 2, 2017 [13 favorites]


America First Nazi Party is looking to expand its majority stranglehold already.

They don't have a majority, but they have key positions due to the presidency. Thought with so many people bowing before King Lord Damp Nut, it does feel like he has a majority.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:46 AM on February 2, 2017


Evil yes, but let's not grant genius just yet.

WaPo: Steve Bannon’s first major play is shaping up as a full-blown fiasco
posted by chris24 at 8:47 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Count me as someone is who disappointing that the Berkeley protests turned violent. I'd really like to see nonviolence as the guiding principle for the left, though I know that's hard given all the disparate movements and perspectives under the progressive umbrella.

Milo is Neofascism's chief recruiter of America's youth. He comes looking for a fight and when he doesn't actually get one he pretends that he does and invents his own false victimhood. Right or wrong, the protests at his and other major alt-right events are not going to become peaceful. It's no longer the nature of the beast.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:47 AM on February 2, 2017 [17 favorites]


Evil and spineless are not mutually exclusive, but I think the evidence is lacking for the claim that he's particularly weak. So many of the "spineless" narratives begin with the assumption that he wants to or should be opposing Trump on something, an assumption that lacks any evidence as far as I can tell. What actions do the claims of "spinelessness" presume he is too feckless to take?
posted by tonycpsu at 8:50 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


If Bannon does get his global war, it's going to be us and Russia against the whole rest of the world, I'm afraid.


Bannon seems to want us to go to war with China, but only AFTER we've shredded the relations we have with other nations in the Pacific so we're on our own.

This after Obama managed to get our navy an explicit invitation to set up shop in Vietnam again.

I don't know just what more Bannon can do to utterly destroy American hegemony, and I would prefer not to find out.
posted by ocschwar at 8:51 AM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


final bon mot

this is just to say

blarg I am ded
posted by The otter lady at 8:51 AM on February 2, 2017 [30 favorites]


CDC Seeks Controversial New Quarantine Powers To Stop Outbreaks

Thanks for keeping your eye on the ball w/r/t, theodolite. I have always had near-unlimited respect for the CDC, going back to my days as a Berkeley Free Clinic medic, but it terrifies me to think what uses a weaponized CDC could be put to.

I guess that's the thing about fascism: it can take the noblest of institutions and the most humanitarian of policies and twist them horribly to its own ends.
posted by adamgreenfield at 8:52 AM on February 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


Count me as someone is who disappointing that the Berkeley protests turned violent. I'd really like to see nonviolence as the guiding principle for the left, though I know that's hard given all the disparate movements and perspectives under the progressive umbrella.

I am a little disappointed, too, but if you're arguing with Trumpists, why not turn the right's rhetoric back on them?

This is a dangerous foreign national who is inciting violence against American citizens. Of course the American people there didn't want him in their school. They took action!
posted by Zalzidrax at 8:53 AM on February 2, 2017 [14 favorites]


If Bannon does get his global war, it's going to be us and Russia against the whole rest of the world, I'm afraid.

In a ground war the US can best the entirety of Europe right now on its own. Between France and the UK they maybe have a hundred megatons of nuclear power over 500ish warheads. China has a hundred and something megatons over 200 and something warheads. In total that's about one seventh of the US's nuclear arsenal and one fourteenth of the US and Russia's combined arsenal.

The rest of the world is not going to win that fight.
posted by Talez at 8:53 AM on February 2, 2017


The rest of the world is not going to win that fight.

No one is going to win that fight.
posted by chris24 at 8:55 AM on February 2, 2017 [77 favorites]


Is Steve Bannon the Second Most Powerful Man in the World? (Time, 1/31/2017)
Yet Bannon's prominence in the first 10 days of the Administration--and the scenes of confusion and disorder that are his disruptive hallmark--has rattled the West Wing and perhaps even dismayed the President. According to senior Administration officials, Trump hauled in some half-dozen of his key advisers for a brisk dressing-down. Everything goes through chief of staff Reince Priebus, he directed. Nothing flows that hasn't been scheduled by his deputy Katie Walsh. "You're going to see probably a slower, more deliberative process," one official told TIME.

Still, Bannon possesses that dearest of Washington currencies: walk-in privileges for the Oval Office. And he is the one who has been most successful in focusing Trump on a winning message. While other advisers have tried to change Trump, Bannon has urged him to step on the gas.
Snarky reply: second to who, Putin?

At the rate _rump is burning bridges, he's dropping the US in terms of position as "most powerful nation in the world," which devalues the sway of _rump and Pres. Bannon.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:55 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


You realize that one nuclear exchange is everyone losing, right?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:55 AM on February 2, 2017 [21 favorites]


"Win" as in "Man that dies with the most toys wins".
posted by effluvia at 8:56 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


What actions do the claims of "spinelessness" presume he is too feckless to take?

Bannon's horrible agenda is not Ryan's horrible agenda. Bannon doesn't want to cut social security -- he just wants to make sure only white Christians can get it. Ryan doesn't want anyone to have it. Same with health insurance. Trump wants to make sure everyone in his voter demographic has it. Ryan only wants rich people to have it. Bannon wants the federal government weaker or non existent -- Ryan wants power. Bannon is a dominionist of some kind. Ryan seems to be on the side of the billionaires, who aren't very interested in the kind of destruction of capital that a dominionist revolution would entail. And Ryan wants to take over the country with parliamentary procedures and high-minded ideology, like the "movement conservative" that he is. Whereas Bannon relishes chaos and cares not for procedure or the "optics" that Ryan so carefully tries to craft.

And Trump has personally insulted Ryan (along with the rest of the Republican leadership.)

Yet Ryan just takes it. He just sits there and takes it all. This is where the "spineless" perception comes from. Why is he not fighting for his own horrible agenda? Why is he not locked in a public power struggled with Bannon?

I continue to wonder if he is possibly being coerced in some way.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:59 AM on February 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


I love that the Dems appear to really be taking the gloves off.

@DaviSusan
Nancy Pelosi refers to WH adviser Steve Bannon as a "white supremacist" on the National Security Council.
posted by chris24 at 9:02 AM on February 2, 2017 [85 favorites]


Folks, let's never lose sight of the basics: Trump is a man who desperately wants to be liked and respected, and he is a man who enjoys a life of comfort. One hopes that it is already becoming apparent to him that his role as president may undermine those objectives. We therefore have a duty to protest and to mock him as mercilessly as we can, because such actions may well speed his resignation and save humanity from nuclear winter.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:02 AM on February 2, 2017 [30 favorites]


Reddit is saying that this document indicates sanctions on Russia have been lifted. No news announcements yet though.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:04 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


We therefore have a duty to protest and to mock him as mercilessly as we can

+1 He could give a shit about being called on lies or bad policy, but make fun of him and he crumbles.
posted by chris24 at 9:05 AM on February 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


Re: the use of violence. My thinking over the last few days has shifted, and I don't think Trump is going anywhere soon. A commitment to nonviolence is the only sustainable, legitimizing strategy I see going forward.
posted by megancita at 9:05 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


In a ground war the US can best the entirety of Europe right now on its own. Between France and the UK they maybe have a hundred megatons of nuclear power over 500ish warheads. China has a hundred and something megatons over 200 and something warheads. In total that's about one seventh of the US's nuclear arsenal and one fourteenth of the US and Russia's combined arsenal.

The US can defeat anyone's military. They can win any war. But only if they don't have to deal with the aftermath. That's where it gets problematic. Iraq is a relatively small country and it took most of the resources the American military could muster to try to stabilize it. That finally only sort of succeeded after close to a decade.
posted by azpenguin at 9:05 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


Count me as someone is who disappointing that the Berkeley protests turned violent.

I saw a bunch of comments on reddit that this is due to an anarchist group that basically shows up to all of their protests called "By Any Means Necessary".
posted by mayonnaises at 9:05 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]



I continue to wonder if he is possibly being coerced in some way.


If Russia was able to find dirt on everyone including Trump, I am convinced Ryan isn't the only one who is being coerced. James Comey gave me that impression as well, at least at the beginning of this debacle.

While Russia backs Trump, he has Putin's power to find dirt on anyone.
posted by Tarumba at 9:06 AM on February 2, 2017




@ppppolls
40% of voters already support impeaching Donald Trump, up from 35% a week ago. Only 48% opposed to impeachment: http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/02/after-2-weeks-voters-yearn-for-obama.html


Also from the article:

"The idea of a Muslim ban is extremely unpopular with the American people- only 26% are in favor of it, to 65% who are against it. When it comes to barring people from certain countries from entering the United States, even when those people have already secured a Visa, just 39% of voters are supportive to 53% who are against it."
posted by chris24 at 9:10 AM on February 2, 2017 [44 favorites]


In a ground war the US can best the entirety of Europe right now on its own. Between France and the UK they maybe have a hundred megatons of nuclear power over 500ish warheads. China

In a ground war, the most damage the US can do is by holding back and letting Russia re-establish the Warsaw Pact.
posted by ocschwar at 9:10 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


I know people are wondering what they can do to help, and there's been some talk about volunteering upthread. But one thing that MeFites can do right now is get INFJ a copy of Raiders so they can watch it as soon as possible.

This is real, concrete action that will help someone.

On a related note, I decided to drop out of following the news for a bit yesterday evening and I watched Captain America: The First Avenger, 'cuz hey - I like Haley Attwell, plus Tommy Lee Jones and Chris Evans punching Nazis (and there's a small part for Natalie Dormer!), and Hugo Weaving is awesome as a bady. Anyways, I get to this scene and pretty much had to stop for ten minutes because I was laughing so hard. I mean, WWII and all, but Captain America knows exactly what to do when he hears evil monologuing.
posted by nubs at 9:13 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]




And more from the polling article. There's a lot of questions on a variety of topics that almost without fail poll negatively for Trump. Worth reading.

"It hasn't taken long for voters to develop a pretty dim view of Trump advisor Steve Bannon, and become wary of the extent to which he's being given power within the administration. Only 19% of voters see Bannon favorably, to 40% who have a negative opinion of him. Only 34% of voters approve of his being given a seat on the principals committee of the National Security Council, to 44% who are opposed to that. What's particularly telling is that only 19% of voters think Bannon belongs in that seat on the National Security Council more than the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Director of National Intelligence, to 59% who believe those folks are more deserving of that place at the table. Even Trump voters think he's gone too far on that front- by a 40/35 margin they think the more traditional members should have that position rather than Bannon."
posted by chris24 at 9:13 AM on February 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


Canada is now offering US green card and visa holders affected by the travel ban asylum in Canada.

It's a start, but only applies to those already here. Now we need to see what we can do to help the refugees being displaced by this. Time for another call to my MP.
posted by nubs at 9:15 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


@ppppolls
40% of voters already support impeaching Donald Trump, up from 35% a week ago. Only 48% opposed to impeachment: http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/02/after-2-weeks-voters-yearn-for-obama.html

Wow. I don't think it's out of the question that there'll be 50% or more in favor of impeachment in the not-distant future, and what then when congress continues to refuse to act? How long can a nation continue to exist in that state?
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:15 AM on February 2, 2017 [14 favorites]


Count me as someone is who disappointing that the Berkeley protests turned violent

Counterpoint: If you say all protests that turn violent are illegitimate and make non-violence your central principle, you are making it very easy for provocateurs to wreck your movement.
posted by knapah at 9:17 AM on February 2, 2017 [52 favorites]


Looks like we can snip the "snarky reference" excuse in the bud and add another check to the "if a person tells you they're a fascist, believe them" column: This is what Trump’s Supreme Court nominee Neil Gorsuch was like in college

It's just a parade of awful:
In January 1987 Gorsuch, then a sophomore at Columbia, wrote a staunch defense of the Reagan administration over the Iran-Contra scandal—when the White House was caught making secret weapons sales to Iran (which was outlawed at the time) to trade for hostages (also outlawed) and raise money for Nicaragua’s right-wing contras (you guessed it, also outlawed)—in the Columbia Spectator.
[...]
In another article, Gorsuch slammed a coalition of activists urging Columbia to divest from corporations supporting South African apartheid. They “seem willing to sacrifice the large income from (Columbia’s) endowment, which goes to pay for our need-blind admissions, among other things,” he wrote.
[...]
When he wasn’t criticizing specific protesters, Gorsuch attacked protesters in general. “Fifteen students wandered about, aimlessly criticizing whatever struck their fancy…with a couple of illegible banners,” he wrote in one column, adding, “our protesters, it seems, have a monopoly on righteousness they are asking for special treatment, acting as a vigilante squad while avoiding the weight of their own actions.”

In March 1987, the campus was thrown into crisis when as many as 20 white Columbia students beat a group of black students and security guards while hurling racial slurs, sparking massive student protests about racism. Gorsuch again attacked the protesters.

“(They) constantly claimed that our ‘white, male, racist, capitalist society must be overturned.’” he complained in a Spectator column. “Last Saturday’s march was more a demand for the overthrow of American society… those who addressed the march argued not for a change within the system, but for a radical change of the system.” He predicted black students’ activism would lead to their “downfall.”

Gorsuch also made an unsuccessful bid for the University Senate, in which he argued that Marines—which did not allow LGBTQ people to serve openly at the time—should be allowed to recruit on campus because discriminatory recruitment was a form of “free speech."
posted by zombieflanders at 9:18 AM on February 2, 2017 [57 favorites]


Keep calling your senators and congresscritter in the House of Represenatives daily to express your concerns, even if they're spineless, corrupt, evil, venal vermin like my representative. (My senators are doing great, though!)
posted by entropicamericana at 9:19 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


I am actually scared of tomorrow. I wonder what EO they will drop Friday afternoon to create chaos over the weekend.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 9:22 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Counter-counterpoint: at the women's march in Boston my friends and I were standing right in front of a group of young guys with black scarves covering their faces who tried very hard to start some aggressive chants going. We turned around and gave them the death stare perfected by parenting toddlers and one guy sheepishly mumbled that "man, it must be a chant dead zone right here".

Shut that shit down before it escalates.
posted by lydhre at 9:23 AM on February 2, 2017 [44 favorites]


I am actually scared of tomorrow.

Whoa there, partner. That's going to be a bad habit now and in the future in this new dark age. Get angry for tomorrow.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:24 AM on February 2, 2017 [32 favorites]


Occupy Oakland: We won this night. We will control the streets. We will liberate the land. We will fight fascists. We will dismantle the state. This is war.

Senior editor at The Atlantic and former George W. Bush speechwriter David Frum: Why didn’t you volunteer to drive Wisconsin voters to the polls, you self-indulgent narcissists?

Chapo Trap House: Didn't you help start the Iraq War?
[kisses fingers]
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 9:24 AM on February 2, 2017 [38 favorites]


So John McCain feels the need to call up Australia and apologize on behalf of the President. This is a guy who apparently thought long and hard about it and somehow concluded, "you know what, maybe I do suck for getting captured. I'll stand with that guy." What possibly could be his floor? Just how badly does McCain want a damn tax cut?
posted by zachlipton at 9:25 AM on February 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


A commitment to nonviolence is the only sustainable, legitimizing strategy I see going forward.

History has shown us many times that nonviolence works when it is grounded in the understanding that it is the alternative to the violent resistance that would otherwise happen. Those in power ask us to forget that and believe that change happened only because people smiled and asked politely.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 9:26 AM on February 2, 2017 [25 favorites]


Take a look again at that 2014 Steve Bannon speech.

Hadn't seen this before and I just wanted to point out this part:
I’m a very practical, pragmatic capitalist. I was trained at Goldman Sachs, I went to Harvard Business School, I was as hard-nosed a capitalist as you get. I specialized in media, in investing in media companies, and it’s a very, very tough environment. And you’ve had a fairly good track record. So I don’t want this to kinda sound namby-pamby, “Let’s all hold hands and sing ‘Kumbaya’ around capitalism.”

But there’s a strand of capitalism today — two strands of it, that are very disturbing.

One is state-sponsored capitalism. And that’s the capitalism you see in China and Russia...
"I was bigly in media" is just about the most ludicrous hard-core-capitalist credential you could possibly present right before trying to indict "state-sponsored capitalism".

Anyone dependent on the massive system of government-granted monopolies that is copyright and the international enforcement regime, which can result in the police smashing down your door and seizing your "free press" even for just using it to tell people where they can get copies of things outside of the monopolistic licensing system (as in the case of servers hosting torrent trackers), is living in a glass house and throwing stones to criticize any other industry anywhere as "too state-sponsored." Not to mention that the dude is now at the helm of the "unlimited protectionism" administration.

(Whether or not government-enforced "intellectual property" monopolies should exist, or should exist as they are in their present forms, this is basically the superlative case of the perennial conservative mythology and willful blindness about bootstrapping and "free markets" and "We built that!")
posted by XMLicious at 9:26 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


> Bannon's horrible agenda is not Ryan's horrible agenda.

Ryan is not President, Bannon effectively is. This means that Bannon has a lot more power than Ryan has. You're not weak by failing to exercise power you don't have. Nothing that comes out of the House of Representatives becomes law without Bannon/Trump's say-so.

> Bannon doesn't want to cut social security -- he just wants to make sure only white Christians can get it.

Cite? I think you're both underestimating the racism of pre-Trumpism GOP policy and overestimating how much Bannon cares about the particulars of Social Security. I don't see any tension at all between Ryan's granny-starving and Bannon's brand of "economic nationalism", since cutting SS will disproportionately harm people of color and immigrant communities.

> Bannon wants the federal government weaker or non existent -- Ryan wants power.

Again, I don't think this is accurate. Both of them want to be part of a very small ruling class that controls the levers of power. That means a small regulatory state, elimination of many agencies, and massive cuts to the federal workforce. That makes government smaller *and* it makes them both more powerful. No tension whatsoever as far as I can tell.

> Bannon is a dominionist of some kind. Ryan seems to be on the side of the billionaires, who aren't very interested in the kind of destruction of capital that a dominionist revolution would entail.

If this is referring to the foreign policy implications of Dominionism, then I think it's worth remembering that expensive wars can be very good for business. Maybe Paul Ryan isn't seeking to bring about armageddon, but he's perfectly happy being a big player in the Christian power structure, and I don't get the sense he's particularly worried about wealth shifting from billionaires who sell financial instruments to billionaires who sell Tomahawk missiles. Certainly, any worry he has about it is more than accounted for by the rubber stamp Trump will likely be using to advance every horrible supply-side economic idea to escape from a DC bar napkin.

> And Ryan wants to take over the country with parliamentary procedures and high-minded ideology, like the "movement conservative" that he is. Whereas Bannon relishes chaos and cares not for procedure or the "optics" that Ryan so carefully tries to craft.

This is the most glaring difference, but it's more style than substance, and I think it has more to do with their respective roles in our government than anything else. I see little difference between wanting to cut taxes for the wealthy because you're an Objectivist like Ryan and wanting to cut taxes for the wealthy because most of the wealthy are white men.

There are certainly measurable differences between what Congressional leaders like Ryan are doing and what Trump and his henchmen are doing, but I don't see those differences amounting to something large enough that Ryan would need "courage" to oppose the White House on. Maybe the train isn't taking Ryan to the precise location of the promised land, but he's fine taking it as far as it can go and walking the rest of the way.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:26 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm actually fine with reserving violence for when peaceful protests stop having positive effects.

The impact of the Women's marches would have been much different if there'd been violence.
posted by lydhre at 9:29 AM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


Wow. I don't think it's out of the question that there'll be 50% or more in favor of impeachment in the not-distant future, and what then when congress continues to refuse to act?

Then? Then we start telling our Senators and Representatives that if they do not call for impeachment, we start calling the Governors to recall the Senators and Representatives as they are not representing the will of the people. Yes, this will take longer in states where everybody is Republican, but make sure everyone sees the writing on the wall.
posted by dannyboybell at 9:31 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]




Ooh, time for Stammering Grublet Hour
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:33 AM on February 2, 2017 [21 favorites]


40% of voters already support impeaching Donald Trump, up from 35% a week ago. Only 48% opposed to impeachment

Honestly, especially if you read the internals, it's hard to interpret these numbers as anything but confirmation of the central role misogyny played in the defeat of Hillary Clinton.
posted by adamgreenfield at 9:35 AM on February 2, 2017 [42 favorites]


It's going to be really amazing when neither of the last two Republican presidents is invited to the 2020 RNC.


assuming there's an election. or civilization
posted by chris24 at 9:35 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Ryan is not President, Bannon effectively is. This means that Bannon has a lot more power than Ryan has. You're not weak by failing to exercise power you don't have. Nothing that comes out of the House of Representatives becomes law without Bannon/Trump's say-so.

But likewise, no matter what policy proposals Trump/Bannon come up with, they don't become law without Paul Ryan. Executive orders are great and all, but without the power of the purse, there's only so much they can do. Many of those already issued will not really be implemented because no mechanism for implementing them exists (eg, The Wall).

And ultimately, Ryan has the power to impeach. Which is significant, given the polling data cited earlier on how many Americans now favor impeachment...

We can agree to disagree on our interpretations of Ryan's/Bannon's agendas... Obviously I can't read minds, and you might be right that they are closer than I think. But I really think Bannon hates the Republican party "elites" (read that speech again!) and is deliberately trying to sideline them, and it's very hard for me to imagine they don't hate him back. So all the smiling and nodding seems very weird to me.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:35 AM on February 2, 2017


♫ It's the Spicey Show! ♫
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:36 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


First up: Spicer tells the press about items in the press.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 9:36 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


"The five words he heard more often than anything else are, I'm Praying For You."

THERE ARE FOUR WORDS
posted by theodolite at 9:37 AM on February 2, 2017 [44 favorites]


Even the Toronto Public Library is trolling Trump.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:37 AM on February 2, 2017 [10 favorites]



History has shown us many times that nonviolence works when it grounded in the understanding that it is the alternative to the violent resistance that would otherwise happen. History asks us to forget that and believe that change happened only because people smiled and asked politely.



So does that mean we let some violence happen, and then follow nonviolence? Look, I'm a longtime MeFi member who mostly hangs out on AskMe, and like many in this election, hadn't been much of a committed political actor for most of my life. So thinking about how protests movements work and succeed is a very new topic for me. I'm not trying to be deliberately obtuse; what I'm trying to do is learn. What I have been doing in the last few days is reading moderate conservative news and forums to try and get another perspective, and doing so has walked me back from the revolutionary ledge I feel like I'm on when I read these election threads. I suppose I'm just making an effort now to stop being swept along in a tide of reaction.
posted by megancita at 9:37 AM on February 2, 2017


Can someone do a MeFi Music Challenge for an actual theme song, please?
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:37 AM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Is there any indication in Gorsuch's court judgments over the last decade that he still holds to his outrageous college ideas?
posted by Coventry at 9:37 AM on February 2, 2017


(Has anyone ever watched General Hospital? Spicer really reminds me of Scott Baldwin...)
posted by armacy at 9:38 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


"One is crony capitalism, or what we call state-controlled capitalism, and that’s the big thing the tea party is fighting in the United States, and really the tea party’s biggest fight is not with the left, because we’re not there yet. The biggest fight the tea party has today is just like UKIP. UKIP’s biggest fight is with the Conservative Party."

"The tea party in the United States’ biggest fight is with the the Republican establishment, which is really a collection of crony capitalists that feel that they have a different set of rules of how they’re going to comport themselves and how they’re going to run things."

-Steven Bannon on the Republican Establishment

He hates them. Why do they keep dancing to his tune?
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:38 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


THERE ARE FOUR WORDS

You just don't know how to compute 2+2.
posted by Coventry at 9:39 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


Btw, I've been away from my computer for a while. Is #TrumpAdministrationYearbookActivities trending on Twitter yet?
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:41 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


FWIW: "A source working on the sanctions says this was "technical fix to avoid unintended consequences...Planned under Obama. Not Trump weakening""

Not sure what unintended consequences involve the FSB, but ok...
posted by zachlipton at 9:41 AM on February 2, 2017


alternative math!
posted by INFJ at 9:41 AM on February 2, 2017


I am struggling so hard not to all-caps this: The US president just took a bribe from Russia and literally no one in the mainstream media gives a single fuck what the fuck world do we live in anymore.
posted by capricorn at 9:42 AM on February 2, 2017 [19 favorites]


He hates them. Why do they keep dancing to his tune?

Because nobody wants to be the next Eric Cantor.
posted by Talez at 9:42 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Or maybe just #AwkwardExtracurriculars.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:43 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Press Secretary reports Secretary of State doesn't know his way around the building.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 9:43 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Is there any indication in Gorsuch's court judgments over the last decade that he still holds to his outrageous college ideas?

Yes.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:43 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


> He hates them. Why do they keep dancing to his tune?

He said he hates them, but that was before he became one of them. Trump won by weaponizing faux-populism, after which he filled his team with Goldman Sachs products, including Bannon. Why are you taking what Bannon is saying at face value?
posted by tonycpsu at 9:44 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


I kind of feel like lord dampnut made spicer wear this tie as a humiliation-increaser.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:44 AM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


He hates them. Why do they keep dancing to his tune?

Everything he's doing so far is shit they've been dying to for years. Everybody loves the guy who will go just a little further than they dare to go, but always wanted to.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:45 AM on February 2, 2017 [15 favorites]


Lord Dampnut as Bannon's puppet. Some good photoshop on a vintage picture here.
posted by chris24 at 9:46 AM on February 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


"How is the President going to address home grown terrorism?"

"We're looking at borders..."

OSADFHJUOI@WQ#H(R!@#RYH)(FCHSVDIOL
posted by Talez at 9:48 AM on February 2, 2017 [25 favorites]


You gotta protect your borders from homegrown terrorists.
posted by saysthis at 9:48 AM on February 2, 2017 [17 favorites]


Spicer is asked how they will combat homegrown terrorism and he can't stop talking about immigration and securing borders.
posted by zachlipton at 9:48 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Spicer was just asked about the Quebec City terrorist attack and how we should protect against home-grown terrorism. His response is that we must secure the borders.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:48 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]



So does that mean we let some violence happen, and then follow nonviolence? Look, I'm a longtime MeFi member who mostly hangs out on AskMe, and like many in this election, hadn't been much of a committed political actor for most of my life. So thinking about how protests movements work and succeed is a very new topic for me. I'm not trying to be deliberately obtuse; what I'm trying to do is learn. What I have been doing in the last few days is reading moderate conservative news and forums to try and get another perspective, and doing so has walked me back from the revolutionary ledge I feel like I'm on when I read these election threads. I suppose I'm just making an effort now to stop being swept along in a tide of reaction.


We all want nonviolence. We want these protests to be as peaceful as possible. We want to stand up with our fellow Americans for our ideals. But it needs to be clear this isn't because the things we fight for aren't worth fighting for by any means necessary, but because are willing to care for and respect everyone in this nation. Even if they don't deserve it.
posted by Zalzidrax at 9:49 AM on February 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


The US president just took a bribe from Russia and literally no one in the mainstream media gives a single fuck what the fuck world do we live in anymore.

Is there public evidence of this now, or just educated guessing still? Because if there is evidence that changes everything.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:49 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


Spicer was just asked about the Quebec City terrorist attack and how we should protect against home-grown terrorism. His response is that we must secure the borders.

Quick, someone ask him when we are going to close out borders to France...
posted by Zalzidrax at 9:50 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Everything he's doing so far is shit they've been dying to for years. Everybody loves the guy who will go just a little further than they dare to go, but always wanted to.

And to extrapolate: Everybody loves the guy who will go way too far because he yanks the Overton Window with him. Suddenly a hard lurch to the right is the new middle because it's not quite as far out there as Trump went, and how dare you question whether or not this is the mainstream?
posted by delfin at 9:51 AM on February 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


Is there public evidence of this now, or just educated guessing still? Because if there is evidence that changes everything.

The sanctions going away even if they mumble mumble handwaved it
posted by capricorn at 9:51 AM on February 2, 2017


Australian reporter once again asks Spicer to confirm that the refugee deal is still on ("I asked you this earlier this week"). Spicer isn't as confident it will happen now, talking about "extreme vetting" and about how "extremely extremely upset" Trump is with the deal, but he respects the PM. Spicer keeps going back over and over again to say how horrible the deal is.
posted by zachlipton at 9:51 AM on February 2, 2017


Just say it Spicer. Double secret probation.
posted by Talez at 9:52 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


I can't watch this anymore. He's just the least intelligent person in the room and it's a cringefest.
posted by Talez at 9:54 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Spicer was just asked about the Quebec City terrorist attack and how we should protect against home-grown terrorism. His response is that we must secure the borders.

See, home-grown terrorists just can't HELP themselves when they see a bunch of non-white people living their own lives and minding their own business! So obviously, the only way to prevent home grown white man terrorism is to close our borders and prevent these fragile flowers from the strain of living in the midst of multi-culturalism.

(I seriously think this is part of their viewpoint. It is not too far away from the “I wouldn’t have to beat you if you didn’t make me so MAD” excuse domestic abusers believe in.)
posted by a fiendish thingy at 9:55 AM on February 2, 2017 [24 favorites]


I mean to elaborate on that, articles like this one make no mention whatsoever of the "golden showers" dossier, with or without "not confirmed and wrong on several details" caveat - it's just weird.
posted by capricorn at 9:55 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


A senior Republican national security expert (and NatSec columnist at Kushner's Observer):

@20committee
Trump is insane. We have proof now. He needs to be removed from office. Peacefully, one hopes. @GOP, you know what you have to do -- do it.
posted by chris24 at 9:56 AM on February 2, 2017 [40 favorites]


hyper ultimate maximum vetting.

insert eyeroll here.
posted by INFJ at 9:57 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


A thing about impeachment that scares me is, maybe it won't happen until after war crimes are committed.....remember, war crimes cover a lot more than atrocities against civilians. A lot of the Nuremberg trials were about conducting an illegal war at all, an aggressive invasion, not about what was done in the war zone. And they went after people who financed the war machine, as well as Generals. If Trump decides to start playing Risk and invade a country, and it is a disaster and we become an outlaw nation, that could surely do for a "high crime or misdemeanor" IF AND ONLY IF there is the political will in the House to do so.

I'm sorry, I know we aren't supposed to shovel in imaginary disaster scenarios. But, impeach the President for what? Maybe it could be done without something catastrophic happening, on the theory of a pattern of harmful misconduct, starting with things like kicking the Joint Chiefs off the NSC, putting in his political consigliere instead, treating the State Department like he's doing layoffs after a corporate takeover, and etc. But there has to be the will to make the case and win it, and, right now, the House is evidently n Christmas morning mode.
posted by thelonius at 9:57 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Hunter Walker asks why Trump thought the National Prayer Breakfast was a good venue to mock The Apprentice. Spicer says it was a lighthearted moment with Mark Burnett, then he walks out after well less than a half hour of briefing.
posted by zachlipton at 9:58 AM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


A senior Republican national security expert (and NatSec columnist at Kushner's Observer):


From XXCommittee? He's one that hyped "but her e-mails!" For months.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:58 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


The US president just took a bribe from Russia and literally no one in the mainstream media gives a single fuck

Actually articles exist pointing out a need to ask more questions.

Has this become a question being asked of the Not-Republicans in congress? And if that fails, what's the plan to file lawsuits or even attempt federal pre-lawsuit discovery?
posted by rough ashlar at 10:01 AM on February 2, 2017


From XXCommittee? He's one that hyped "but her e-mails!" For months.

Yep, and now hyping impeachment. In less than two weeks Trump has lost HIM.
posted by chris24 at 10:02 AM on February 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


@20committee
Trump is insane. We have proof now. He needs to be removed from office. Peacefully, one hopes. @GOP, you know what you have to do -- do it.


John Schindler (@20committee) is an unhinged right-winger who spends his free time alternating between nostalgia for the Austro-Hungarian army and sending pictures of his dick to women who didn't ask for them. He regards Snowden and Manning as traitors and defends sweeping domestic surveillance programs to the hilt. He epitomizes everything wrong with "Natsec wonks." There are better commentators.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:03 AM on February 2, 2017 [24 favorites]


No sympathy, no placating - just reminding them of their 6th Grade Civics class.

This is just like dog training. I might still be mad as hell that the dog shit on the bed but it's too late to correct her now and she'll just think I'm crazy. But no matter how angry I still am, if right now she is doing what I tell her, I give her a cookie and tell her how good a girl she is (spoiler, she's a very good girl) with all the bright cheeriness that I can muster. I'm still mad that she shit the bed but the way to fix it is to encourage good behavior now.

So yeah, internally I'm saying, "I fucking TOLD YOU SO!" but outwardly I'm saying, "I know! This is crazy. Call your reps, it makes an impact. Al Franken, my one of my Senators has said so I took that as a request to keep it.

On a side note, I hadn't been calling or writing my Senators on the assumption that I don't need to change their minds. What I missed is that their staff track all of this stuff so that they can justify their actions to voters who might not feel strongly about it or even disagree.
posted by VTX at 10:03 AM on February 2, 2017 [32 favorites]


So all the smiling and nodding seems very weird to me.

I have no idea what's going through Ryan's head. But if I were Ryan, I'd be saying nice things about Trump's tweets too as a means of misdirecting the administration and its rabid followers. It's the sort of thing you do before sticking the knife in. Politics 101 basic stuff. I don't know if he'll ever use the knife or if he's just spineless. But Ryan is the sort who would quietly poison the soup and not go on a direct attack.
posted by honestcoyote at 10:03 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


personally i'm working on a final bon mot to post on metafilter when the missiles are airborne.
Oh, where have you been, my blue-screened son
And where have you been, long-gone #1? 
I've grumbled on the side of twelve meta-longboats
I've typed and deleted on six corb responses
I've moved on in the middle of seven flag forests
I've been out in front of buttoned dead meef
I've read ten thousand words from the mod of a graveyard
And it's an orange, orange, orange, it's an orange
It's an orange rain's a-gonna fall

Oh, what did you see, my blue-screened son
And what did you see, long-gone #1?
I saw a brand new account with 14ks all around it
I saw a thread on declawing with nobody postin'
I saw maxsparber with a glass full of gregnog
I saw a room full of mods with ban-hammers a-flyin'
I saw a white background all covered with flames
I saw ten thousand typers whose caps locks were broken
I saw puns and sharp words in the hands of young strawmen
And it's an orange, orange, orange, it's an orange
It's an orange rain's a-gonna fall

And what did you hear, my blue-screened son?
And what did you hear, long-gone #1?
I heard an autoplay video that roared out at work
Heard a 4k long thread that could break any browser
Heard one hundred mefites whose hands were a-blazin'
Heard ten thousand lurkers breakin' their silence
Heard one person mock, I heard many people laughin'
Heard the post of a poet who died through deletion
Heard the sound of cortex a cryin' in the alley
And it's an orange, orange, orange, it's an orange
It's an orange rain's a-gonna fall

Oh, what did you meet, my blue-screened son?
Who did you meet, long-gone #1?
I met a young frimble beside a dead pony
I met a kind lobster  who knitted pink mittens
I met  jessamyn with a GIF of a chicken
I met Todd Lokken who signed it -- Steve Bannon
I met  restless nomads in hats with cat ears
I met other mods that were covered in eyebrows
And it's an orange, orange, orange, it's an orange
It's an orange rain's a-gonna fall

And what'll you do now, my blue-screened son?
And what'll you do now, long-gone #1?
I'm a-goin' back out 'fore I'm covered in cheetos
I'll march on the streets of the whitest white suburbs
Where sock puppets are many and their keyboards are meltin'
Where the hammers of banning are bleedin' bright orange
Where the home page is  Gothic Comic Sans
And the delete button is always well hidden
Where hunger is bigly, and favourites  forgotten
Where blue is the background, we're numb and a number
And I'll type it and post it and never regret it
And cross-post /r/the_donald so assholes can see it
Then I'll slouch on the couch and see the nukes flyin'
And  rise from the ashes with 90% battery
And it's an orange, orange, orange, it's an orange
It's an orange rain's a-gonna fall
posted by Rumple at 10:05 AM on February 2, 2017 [41 favorites]


But Ryan is the sort who would quietly poison the soup

Christ, let's hope that's all he's putting in the soup.
posted by logicpunk at 10:06 AM on February 2, 2017


Spicer was just asked about the Quebec City terrorist attack and how we should protect against home-grown terrorism. His response is that we must secure the borders.

Makes perfect sense. Immigrants come into the country and spread their terrorist cooties all over young white men. I saw a documentary about it.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:06 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


*applauds*
posted by zachlipton at 10:06 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


So how many members of Congress do you think are doing home-state internal polling right now on impeachment yea/nay?
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:10 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


For me, the C-SPAN link to the Spicer briefing cuts out as soon as the questions start (Timestamp 8m10s). Anyone got a better link?
posted by Coventry at 10:10 AM on February 2, 2017


Hey, we have enough Troubles in this country without insinuating that white Christians can commit acts of terrorism.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:11 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Oh, where have you been, my blue-screened son
And where have you been, long-gone #1?
...


And to think I was just going to link to a 3-second video of Harvey Keitel as Dennis Farina as Ray "Bones" Barboni saying "Fuck you, fuckball!"

I will go in the box now, two minutes by myself, and I will feel shame.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:11 AM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


So how many members of Congress do you think are doing home-state internal polling right now on impeachment yea/nay?

Very few if any. Polling is expensive.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:12 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


(I seriously think this is part of their viewpoint. It is not too far away from the “I wouldn’t have to beat you if you didn’t make me so MAD” excuse domestic abusers believe in.)

For some it is. A dude said that to me on Tuesday on the net. If we didn't have them, then guys like this wouldn't feel like they had to do what he did. I thought he was joking and after trying to get some clarification I'm convinced he wasn't. It was a good thing this a was a digital conversation because I would have punched him I think.
posted by Jalliah at 10:12 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Rawstory.com - Foreign policy insider: ‘No readout of Trump-Putin call because White House turned off recording’

They're not even trying anymore - communicating in secret, easing sanctions, ignoring Russian actions in Ukraine - the scary thing is they're acting like there won't ever be another election.
posted by bluecore at 10:14 AM on February 2, 2017 [71 favorites]


personally i'm working on a final bon mot to post on metafilter when the missiles are airborne.

i just like saying smock.
smock smock smo...
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:15 AM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


Trump administration is attempting to establish better oversight of Federal Reserve, apparently. I have no idea about the accuracy of the historical claims in that letter regarding opaque Federal Reserve regulation practices.
posted by Coventry at 10:15 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Spicer's press conference was 23:22. A day after the president rattled Iran, Mexico, and Australia. During ongoing concern about the raid in Yemen. During ongoing concerns about the cabinet picks, the immigration ban, Russian influence, right-wing co-opting of the executive office, and DJT's ongoing and bizarre behavior.

23 minutes.

After he rushes out, you can hear some reporter say Aw man, and another just says Wow.
posted by mochapickle at 10:17 AM on February 2, 2017 [40 favorites]


Oh, the letter's by Representative McHenry, so not directly from the Trump administration.
posted by Coventry at 10:17 AM on February 2, 2017


Rawstory.com - Foreign policy insider: ‘No readout of Trump-Putin call because White House turned off recording’

They're not even trying anymore - communicating in secret, easing sanctions, ignoring Russian actions in Ukraine - the scary thing is they're acting like there won't ever be another election.


Every time another thing comes out that points directly at Russian influence I am astounded again. I'm still trying to get my brain around the fact that there is an entire political party in the US that is either so much in denial about or so much in cahoots with the US becoming a de-facto client state of Russia.
It's right there. As you said they aren't even trying to hide it anymore.
posted by Jalliah at 10:19 AM on February 2, 2017 [32 favorites]


Hey, we have enough Troubles in this country

Plee-hee-hee-eese don't call them that.
posted by Rykey at 10:21 AM on February 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


THERE ARE FOUR WORDS

the last word was asshole, so ya know, redacted.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:22 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]



I had no idea this was evening happening. Good. Glad someone got on it.

Breitbart loses advertising deals with 818 companies due to grassroots campaign

Hundreds of advertisers are pulling away from ultra-conservative news website Breitbart, and campaigners are confident the backlash is snowballing.

According to a database from grassroots campaign group Sleeping Giants, a total of 818 companies have pledged to remove Breitbart from their media plan so far.

In the last few months, giant corporations such as Kelloggs, BMW, Visa, T-Mobile, Nordstrom and Lufthansa have all severed ties with the company.

And in the same week that President Donald Trump has threatened to pull funding from the University of California, Berkeley after it cancelled a speech by Breitbart editor Milo Yiannopoulos, two universities in Canada have also signed up to the advertising ban.

Emma Pullman, lead campaign strategist at separate campaign group SumOfUs, told The Independent said most of the companies were pre-existing advertisers while some have put the website on their black list, as Breitbart has been accused of writing misogynist and racist articles.

posted by Jalliah at 10:24 AM on February 2, 2017 [83 favorites]


Hi Everyone, it's been a while.

I was reading the derail on the Rural/Urban divide and being as I live in a rural area that went ~70% for Trump, I thought I might share some thoughts. Let me establish this rural bonafide, first. I'm probably the only Mefite in the US within ~150 miles, There are probably 300,000 people total within that area and most of them are in the town I live in, and the rest scattered in small villages and ranches that dot the area. This isn't southern Indiana rural, it's even more remote than that.

The divide isn't purely rural/urban, though it shows up that way.

The Trump voters that I know run a gamut of educational and financial backgrounds but they all have one thing in common: Talk with them long enough and they will say "why should I...". Everyone of them. Guaranteed. My work and my volunteer work puts me into contact with with lots of people, and if you listen to the conversations at the store or a restaurant; it's a common refrain. I call it Whyshouldism.

"Sure, we should be be feeding hungry kids, but why should I be paying for it" "yes, brush burning is bad for the air quality, but why should I pay to haul these leaves to the compost instead". It goes on.

This is magnified by the deeply held knowledge by pretty much everyone here that they are very smart and everyone else is not. And since they are smart and cannot figure out a good reason "why they should" no reason must therefore exist. There's no explaining, because, remember, you're dumb and they aren't, and it is very arrogant of you to try explaining thigns to people smarter than you.


It is these two things that form the bitter heart of the modern conservative sense of entitlement. And it plays out in such stupid ways here. The state recently changed some regulations on meat handling and storage for restaurants - it wasn't a huge change, basically temps in coolers and fridges had to be a few degrees lower. But the local pols were "there is no reason Capitol City needs to be telling us what standards we should accept, we make our own standards". No complaint about the actual regulation itself, just that the people here are smarter and wiser than those idiots in Big City and therefore anything they want to do is stupid.

I think this why the Urban/Rural thing seems prevalent, but you don't have to take many swings with a dead cat to hit someone like this in say, New Jersey. To me, thinking about is rural/urban is missing the larger picture.

You watch this and think what the hell has happened ? You can't even find dems talking like that anymore. What I think has happened is that the generation that overcame the Depression and World Wars by coming together gave rise to the generation that wonders why I have to do anything for those morons. I sort of wonder if it's a boomer thing - you can kind of draw a line from the 80s "Me Generation" to the current "Stupid Entitled Movement" we have going on, but that does seem a little pat.

There is, of course, a bit more to it, but this is a comment and not a blog post, so I tried to be brief. But from here, in the middle of nowhere, it seems that whyshouldism has taken firm hold and I just don't see how a "One Nation, Indivisible" manages to survive that.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 10:25 AM on February 2, 2017 [158 favorites]


This thread is going to melt on the next big news frenzy. Is someone working on a new FPP? (I can't.)
posted by Coventry at 10:26 AM on February 2, 2017


For absolutely no reason at all, the BBC is broadcasting The Nazis: A Lesson From History tonight at 11pm on BBC4.
posted by Devonian at 10:26 AM on February 2, 2017 [51 favorites]


Trump loves pipelines. But he just accidentally froze a bunch of them
Here’s how. Trump elevated Cheryl A. LaFleur to the chairmanship of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. As a result, the sitting chairman Norman C. Bay, rather than remain an ordinary commission member, resigned effective Friday.

That wasn’t part of the plan. When Bay departs, the five-person commission, which already has two vacancies, will no longer have a quorum. No quorum means no approvals for contested issues including electric transmission lines, natural gas pipelines and utility plans. Any new member nominated by Trump must go through Senate confirmation, something that could take another four months.

“This leaves FERC paralyzed for the time being,” said Arvin R. Ganesan, vice president for federal policy at Advanced Energy Economy, a business advocacy group. The commission issues an average of more than five orders a day, according to a former member who counted them.
I love all these little stories of incompetence lurking beneath the big ones.
posted by zachlipton at 10:27 AM on February 2, 2017 [105 favorites]


Someone up there *points vaguely upthread* linked to a collaborative webapp for the next FPP.
posted by INFJ at 10:27 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


At this point, I believe that many people who are for trump just don't listen to the news at all.

Like they wake up, go to work, take care of some kids/grandkids, watch local news for 15 minutes go to bed.
Education, reading level and consistent exposure are really important factors. I know plenty of older and middle class white adults operating on a 6th grade reading level, an authoritarian personality, and a basic work routine.

Like I could give so many people a copy of an EO and it would be incomprehensible.
The critical thinking involved isn't there to see how it could be bad is just not there .
posted by AlexiaSky at 10:29 AM on February 2, 2017 [21 favorites]


As you said they aren't even trying to hide it anymore.

That they feel they don't have to is terrifying.
posted by Artw at 10:31 AM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


in other words, the dunning-kruger effect is a helluva drug
posted by entropicamericana at 10:31 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


the scary thing is they're acting like there won't ever be another election.

There it is, finally. So you picked up on that too? I hope more people closer to power do and care enough to push back before it's too late to make that a miscalculation.
posted by saulgoodman at 10:31 AM on February 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


Donnie just met with Harley Davidson and other than reading from a prepared script he bragged over and over about winning WI and referred to himself in the third person a bunch. CRINGE!!!
posted by futz at 10:36 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Paul Rudnick: Melania's Inauguration Diary
posted by Mchelly at 10:36 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


I've drunk a gallon of cough syrup in the past two days and my brain is crawling as slow as this text I'm entering, so please explain this to me using small words. Can we really blame Trump for the Yemen raid? Surely he's not the one making the plans? I would hope that someone else has the responsibility of figuring out the options, then presenting them to the president -- that the president would be given a variety of options to choose from, and that by the time they've made it that far they're all reasonably (or "reasonable") ones.
posted by The corpse in the library at 10:39 AM on February 2, 2017


What I think has happened is that the generation that overcame the Depression and World Wars by coming together gave rise to the generation that wonders why I have to do anything for those morons. I sort of wonder if it's a boomer thing - you can kind of draw a line from the 80s "Me Generation" to the current "Stupid Entitled Movement" we have going on, but that does seem a little pat.

I tend to believe that there's a lot of people who grew up in a better America than their parents and grandparents had, the America their parents and grandparents worked and sacrificed to build, who came of age into the strongest economy that has ever existed, anywhere, and decided that such prosperity was simply the natural state of things and not something that had to be worked and sacrificed for.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:41 AM on February 2, 2017 [52 favorites]


State Duma deputy called in the US prayer breakfast with Trump [Link is to Russian Website about a parliament member who attended the National Prayer Breakfast]: Chairman of the Duma Committee on Budget Andrey Makarov went to the US to take part in the National Prayer Breakfast, sources told RBC in the Duma. After the events of "Crimean Spring" in 2014, the deputies did not go to such events
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:41 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


"Sure, we should be be feeding hungry kids, but why should I be paying for it" "yes, brush burning is bad for the air quality, but why should I pay to haul these leaves to the compost instead". It goes on.

What you're describing sounds like people who would, ultimately, prefer not to participate in shared governance.

I put this at the feet of the Tea Party. Their existence was based on this idea: why should you have to do these stupid things the government wants you to do, and/or pay for it? Burn it all down!
posted by Dashy at 10:42 AM on February 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


Can we really blame Trump for the Yemen raid? Surely he's not the one making the plans?

No, but he';s the one who disregarded the plans having caveats like "not enough intel, no confidence in success" and ordered a go ahead.

The buck stops at his desk.
posted by ocschwar at 10:42 AM on February 2, 2017 [37 favorites]


More scary Iran stuff from the today's Spicer conference:

“I think Gen. Flynn was very clear yesterday, that Iran has violated the joint resolution, that Iran's additional hostile actions that it took against our Navy vessel are ones we are very clear we're not going to sit by and take."


Spicer’s response also appeared to reference an attack on a Saudi warship that unnamed intelligence officials told Fox News was either meant for a U.S. vessel, or was a “dress rehearsal” for a similar attack on an U.S. asset.


That second sentence is very strange.
posted by diogenes at 10:43 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Someone up there *points vaguely upthread* linked to a collaborative webapp for the next FPP.

Oh, look, it's working again, and people have contributed!

I should be able to make an FPP from it in an hour or so. If someone gets there ahead of me, feel free.
posted by Coventry at 10:43 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Intercept: Press Secretary Sean Spicer Falsely Accuses Iran of Attacking U.S. Navy Vessel, an Act of War

This was a subtle thing in the press briefing, but it shows how far this admin is willing to go to make stuff up, or maybe Spicer is starting to be affected by the Trump Reality Distortion Field (or both).
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:44 AM on February 2, 2017 [11 favorites]



What you're describing sounds like people who would, ultimately, prefer not to participate in shared governance.


I have relatives that have no real big thoughts about any of this at all. They'd just simply prefer not to be bothered by it. Plus, they know that taking a stand equals pissing people off so they just shrug all damn day and make vague handwavey remarks about how 'everyone needs to calm down'
posted by ian1977 at 10:44 AM on February 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


Regarding the Iranian attack on "our" warship:

Official hears a Houthi chant in video, tells Fox means they're trying to hit US ship. Pentagon denies. WH then says Iran tried to hit US.

This is getting worse by the minute.
posted by diogenes at 10:47 AM on February 2, 2017 [26 favorites]


Log of the daily shock and awe: What the Fuck Just Happened Today
posted by fimbulvetr at 10:48 AM on February 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


> Can we really blame Trump for the Yemen raid? Surely he's not the one making the plans?

I am personally of the opinion that he ordered mission knowing that the girl (or children) would be killed because that is exactly what he said he would do.
posted by Tevin at 10:49 AM on February 2, 2017 [15 favorites]


Intercept: Press Secretary Sean Spicer Falsely Accuses Iran of Attacking U.S. Navy Vessel, an Act of War

This was a subtle thing in the press briefing, but it shows how far this admin is willing to go to make stuff up, or maybe Spicer is starting to be affected by the Trump Reality Distortion Field (or both).


Holy shit!!! They actually used it! My comment yesterday responding to where they'll invade first.

I'm in for Yemen.
Reasons. His first Op was an embarrassment. He has something more two prove. There has been talk floating around that pre-Trump Yemen was being looked at as a growing threat.
A Saudi Frigate was suicide ship bombed by what looks like militants from Yemen and a group that is supposedly back by Iran. So they get or think they're getting at Iran. Or at least that's the info is floating around out there. Also, and I think this may be propaganda but this admin isn't exactly known for not using other people propaganda, some US officials feel like the intended target was an American ship or it was a test run for doing the same thing to American ships.

So yeah my vote is for a non-war war with forces going into Yemen because AlQueda is now a huge threat there that must be stopped.

posted by Jalliah at 10:51 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


> No, but he';s the one who disregarded the plans having caveats like "not enough intel, no confidence in success" and ordered a go ahead.

I wonder why poor plans make it that far. Not just for Trump, but for any president. It seems like a waste of the president's time, since in theory those plans wouldn't get approved. Surely it would make more sense to say "We don't have feasible plans now, we will bring you them when we do."
posted by The corpse in the library at 10:51 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]




It's interesting, because a lot of my lefty military friends said the NYTimes piece is probably inaccurate, and what Trump did was exactly what Obama would have done.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:51 AM on February 2, 2017


"For all I know, our navy was shooting at whales out there." - LBJ on the Gulf of Tonkin incident which drew us into the Vietnam War
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:52 AM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


Tevin my first instinct at your comment was 'oh come on! no way' and then I thought a second...yep. disgusting. the only thing that would be not believable about that notion would be his ability to execute a plan well.
posted by ian1977 at 10:52 AM on February 2, 2017


So the chatter that I'm hearing is that the anti-LGBTW EO will be announced tomorrow at the "Prayer Breakfast, and that the reason Trump was all "I'm leaving Obama's protections in place" is that this order will superseded them - no need to repeal.

Get ready for some more protests and phonecalls, people. Maybe call pre-emptively today?
posted by Frowner at 10:53 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


what Trump did was exactly what Obama would have done.

But he could have and didn't, as I understand it?
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:54 AM on February 2, 2017 [13 favorites]


The prayer breakfast was today. Spicer said that the religious freedom order is not coming. We'll see.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:54 AM on February 2, 2017


what Trump did was exactly what Obama would have done.

Um, we know its exactly what Obama wouldn't have done because Obama didn't do it.
posted by Artw at 10:56 AM on February 2, 2017 [83 favorites]


Can we really blame Trump for the Yemen raid?

Yes, absolutely.

The way these things go is that a number of different operational plans will be developed, over a decent period of time. A comprehensive surveillance and intelligence-gathering effort begins, dedicated to each potential target — satellite overflights, intensified drone coverage, maybe HUMINT. (That's "human intelligence," like the "vaccination program" ginned up by the CIA in the run-up to the raid on UBL's compound, in an attempt to put some eyes directly on the target. That, of course, had disastrous consequences for public health efforts throughout the region, but that's a story for another day.)

For particularly high-value targets, the site may be modeled at 1:1 scale, and the team will drill in that simulated environment, and drill, and drill again, until they feel reasonably confident that they have a plan that will work. And then that plan is briefed up the chain of command.

I can't tell you how many command echelons have to sign off on any given mission, but it's certainly more than one, depending on which task force or element(s) of JSOC are involved. And then the options that survive this vetting process are presented to the President and the national-security staff directly around him or her.

Now this mission had apparently been in the works for quite awhile, and as I understand it had even reached that final GO/NOGO decision gate on at least one previous occasion. That occasion was during the Obama Administration, and what I understand is that the mission was scrubbed because it was felt that the intelligence-gathering effort was inadequate — that the operators involved didn't have anything like the fully-fleshed-out picture of the target they'd need to conduct a successful raid.

Mind you, this is independent of any moral or geopolitical calculus. The raid was scrubbed under Obama because the Obama Administration believed, correctly as it turned out, that proceeding with the mission would likely result in failure due to an incomplete understanding of conditions on the objective. Strictly operationally, this was the correct decision. Trump proceeded, for self-evident reasons of ape-fingered machismo, and the result was the fiasco we all read about in yesterday's papers. The blood is entirely on his hands.
posted by adamgreenfield at 10:56 AM on February 2, 2017 [61 favorites]


The prayer breakfast was today. Spicer said that the religious freedom order is not coming. We'll see.

Oh, yes, today is...Thursday? It's Thursday. I have lost all track of time. Well, maybe I can get some sleep tonight instead of frantically cycling amongst news sites.
posted by Frowner at 10:56 AM on February 2, 2017 [14 favorites]


If you're relying on the mercy of one man for your freedoms, you aren't in a democracy, you are in a dictatorship.
posted by Zalzidrax at 10:56 AM on February 2, 2017 [17 favorites]


Regarding Why Should I-ism, it reminds me of this article (paywalled, I think-- sorry) about how to talk to anti-vaxxers. It contains an analogy that I think applies in a lot of other instances as well:
"THE GUARDRAIL ANALOGY
One analogy that I have found helpful to illustrate this last point to parents is that of a dangerous curve in the road on the side of a cliff. Statistics show that, over a period of one year, 100 people are killed going over the cliff—that is like a disease affecting the population. Therefore, we build a guardrail—that is like vaccination. After the guardrail has been put into place, the statistics now show that no one was killed going over the cliff (i.e., no one died of the disease). However, three persons were injured hitting the guardrail—that is like the side effects of vaccination. With these statistics, some people might argue that we need to take down the guardrail since it is injuring three people a year. Of course, in reality, if that were done, we would return to the preguardrail situation (i.e., the prevaccination era) of 100 deaths per year from people once again going over the cliff! Therefore, when comparing guardrail injuries to deaths from a dangerous curve, the proper comparison is what would be the deaths in the absence of the guardrail—just like we must compare side effects of vaccination to what would be the deaths from the disease in the absence of vaccination."
Everything that was originally put in place to prevent horrible death and destruction has worked well enough for long enough that now the memory of those horrible things is mostly lost, and all people are aware of are the mild inconveniences caused by these preventative measures. So they want to rip it all down, because they "don't see the point."

I have an uncle who most people assume is a hardline conservative Republican, mostly because he is an Evangelical. But he also worked as an environmental engineer for the EPA for his entire career. He remembers rivers and streams being technicolor because of unfettered pollution. He knows what climate change means, and he knows that it isn't a liberal conspiracy. The "why should I-ism" that has infected much of his social circle can't touch him on those issues, because he KNOWS.

But they still don't listen. Because knowledge and experience = liberal elitism.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 10:56 AM on February 2, 2017 [68 favorites]


I wonder why poor plans make it that far. Not just for Trump, but for any president.

A good commander(-in-chief) wants his subordinates to make suggestions that push the envelope (to an extent). None of them knows everything that the commander does, so their 80 percent sure may look more like 95 percent sure from a higher perspective.
posted by Etrigan at 10:56 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]




I almost made a meme with Nawar al-awlaki's photo with two Donald Trump quotes..

"The other thing with the terrorists is you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families" - Donald Trump

"You knew I was a snake when you took me in." - Donald Trump


but then I thought it would be too tasteless.
posted by ian1977 at 11:00 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Donnie just met with Harley Davidson and other than reading from a prepared script he bragged over and over about winning WI and referred to himself in the third person a bunch. CRINGE!!!

He also talked more offensive shit about Australia. Because Harley-Davidson cares about that.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:00 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm pretty sure Trump rushed into Yemen because he wanted a big, public display of taking down terrorists abroad his first week in office, like the strong manly president that he'd promised his base he'd be.

Alas, he is incompetent and this is the end result.
posted by lydhre at 11:01 AM on February 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


Re: this morning, with Matthew McConagehy being an asshole:

> texans gonna texan

Could you fucking not? I am right here, threeturtles is right here, emjaybee is right here. Texas produced Barbara Jordan and Ann Richards and Wendy Davis' filibuster and Molly Ivins and we have a whole lot of Texans who want to breathe life into that tradition! My partner and my family were at that Muslim Solidarity rally--are they not Texan? Because my roomie has left the state only a few times in her goddamn life!

Why the fuck do assholes like that get to stand out as being Southern? Why the fuck do you people think of Bull Connor when you think "Alabama", and not MLK? Why is "rural white racist" the stereotype you smug bastards reach for, when you think of half of America, and not the people pushing back?

I live here too, asshole. When I march my ass down to the capitol as soon as I finish this experiment, that will be a Texan Texaning. Christ on a motherfucking crutch! We're here too! Why the fuck won't out-of-staters ever acknowledge that the resistance is part of the fabric and the history and identity of these states, not just the overlords?
posted by sciatrix at 11:01 AM on February 2, 2017 [167 favorites]


It's interesting, because a lot of my lefty military friends said the NYTimes piece is probably inaccurate, and what Trump did was exactly what Obama would have done.

Yep. Spicer spent a little time on this at the presser. The original planning started in 2016, and then they needed to wait for a moonless night for the operation, and by the time the final signoff happened, it was under the new administration.
posted by mochapickle at 11:01 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


On the sanctions thing, both Reuters and the Times are saying it's not awful. The Reuters story goes into some detail, stating that the FSB regulates the import of ordinary cell phones and printers and other equipment containing encryption technology, and the sanctions were blocking the sale of such items in Russia, because US companies couldn't pay the FSB for the required licenses.
posted by zachlipton at 11:02 AM on February 2, 2017


but then I thought it would be too tasteless.

No, I think the first is precisely the connection that needs to be made. It's still difficult for me to think about that picture of her without getting upset, and I understand you don't want to be in a position to be accused of exploiting the image of a murdered child to score political points.

But, y'know: this is what he said he would do, and this is what he did. POSIWID, and Believe The Autocrat.
posted by adamgreenfield at 11:03 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Log of the daily shock and awe: What the Fuck Just Happened Today

Man, I was hoping yesterday for one of these. Every day is so rich and full, it's hard to remember everything.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:03 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


I am so done with my own ideological allies ignoring my fucking existence when they feel the need to make a smug comment about the fucklords in control of my state! So done! I should not have to put up with that here, godfuckdammit.
posted by sciatrix at 11:04 AM on February 2, 2017 [40 favorites]


"For all I know, our navy was shooting at whales out there." - LBJ on the Gulf of Tonkin incident which drew us into the Vietnam War

Questions about the Gulf of Tonkin incidents have persisted for more than 40 years. But once-classified documents and tapes released in the past several years, combined with previously uncovered facts, make clear that high government officials distorted facts and deceived the American public about events that led to full U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War.

If "Intercept: Press Secretary Sean Spicer Falsely Accuses Iran of Attacking U.S. Navy Vessel, an Act of War" becomes a reason to try an attack Iran this becomes a 'moment of truth' for Alex Jones. Does he stick with the Jones script of warning of a conspiracy or does that Trump supporter stick with Trump?

The Blue was one of the places where the Nigerian Yellowcake was discussed - perhaps a FPP on what the Intercept says is in order?
posted by rough ashlar at 11:04 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Yep. Spicer spent a little time on this at the presser. The original planning started in 2016, and then they needed to wait for a moonless night for the operation, and by the time the final signoff happened, it was under the new administration.

Is there any reason we should believe anything Spicer says?

On the sanctions thing, both Reuters and the Times are saying it's not awful. The Reuters story goes into some detail, stating that the FSB regulates the import of ordinary cell phones and printers and other equipment containing encryption technology, and the sanctions were blocking the sale of such items in Russia, because US companies couldn't pay the FSB for the required licenses.

That would seem to be a substantial lessening of the sanctions, then.
posted by jedicus at 11:04 AM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


A good commander(-in-chief) wants his subordinates to make suggestions that push the envelope (to an extent). None of them knows everything that the commander does,

We're already Working Toward The Führer, are we? Good god.
posted by adamgreenfield at 11:04 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


What the fuck does PUT ON NOTICE even mean?

This is fine guys. Putting America's Enemeies On Notice is a well established conservative messaging tactic.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:07 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


(psst, threeturtles was not the source of the texas comment)
posted by futz at 11:07 AM on February 2, 2017


(Psst, I know. I'm citing her as another Texan mefite who is doing a fuckload of activism trying to hold the line.)
posted by sciatrix at 11:08 AM on February 2, 2017 [17 favorites]


>Spicer said that the religious freedom order is not coming.

Well, maybe not until Pence takes office after the impeachment.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:08 AM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Somebody with more followers than my ten needs to tweet that updated Colbert image
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:10 AM on February 2, 2017


I live here too, asshole. When I march my ass down to the capitol as soon as I finish this experiment, that will be a Texan Texaning. Christ on a motherfucking crutch! We're here too! Why the fuck won't out-of-staters ever acknowledge that the resistance is part of the fabric and the history and identity of these states, not just the overlords?
posted by sciatrix at 3:01 AM on February 3 [17 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]


Not quite related, but I posted this on Facebook, and a friend bumbled in with, "You know that George Carlin quote?" I think I felt how you feel.

It's punch up not lash out.
posted by saysthis at 11:11 AM on February 2, 2017


Is there any reason we should believe anything Spicer says?

No.

But the question was whether DJT had drummed up the plan for it himself, and he didn't.

Partially because he might not know where or what a Yemen is.
posted by mochapickle at 11:13 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


haha oh hi there America it's your pal Canada look this has been a really good practical joke and we've all had a good laugh but WHAT THE SHIT ARE YOU DOING DOWN THERE
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 11:15 AM on February 2, 2017 [50 favorites]


A good commander(-in-chief) wants his subordinates to make suggestions that push the envelope (to an extent). None of them knows everything that the commander does,

We're already Working Toward The Führer, are we? Good god.


If you want to Godwin every military, then sure. "We defend democracy, we don't practice it" is a pretty common refrain, because it's true.

Commanders do know more (in the sense of breadth) than individual members of their staff do, because that's their respective jobs. The intel guy knows more about the enemy, but he doesn't know nearly as much about his own unit's personnel readiness or logistical status, or what higher headquarter's next objective is going to be.

Note that I'm not saying "Commanders are smarter than their staff". Good ones try not to be, and they've likely been that staff officer not too long ago and have learned in the intervening time more about the other aspects of commanding at that level.

And that's why good staff officers don't say "Well, this plan might not work, so I won't even suggest it."
posted by Etrigan at 11:15 AM on February 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


Everything that was originally put in place to prevent horrible death and destruction has worked well enough for long enough that now the memory of those horrible things is mostly lost, and all people are aware of are the mild inconveniences caused by these preventative measures. So they want to rip it all down, because they "don't see the point."

I'm out of favorites so I'm just gonna quote that for truth. My brain keeping working overtime at the question of "How did this happen?" and there are lots of reasons -- social media propaganda, demographic changes and the backlash to those, Putin, Comey, partisan polarization, motivated reasoning and poor educations... But mostly it seems we just FORGOT. No matter how much we say "never again" it seems like we forget. When I was a kid everyone knew that nationalism leads to wars and ethnic nationalism leads to wars with ethnic cleansing. Somehow everyone doesn't know that anymore.

Before the election, I felt like people were so sure the "elites" and the "establishment" were bullet proof, that nothing ordinary people did mattered, and they couldn't break stuff if they tried. But they were wrong. It was never bulletproof. It was delicately balanced, and they broke it. The post war international order was never inevitable. It was carefully maintained on an ongoing basis by people who knew how vulnerable it all was.

What I've learned from this period in history: 2) NOT everybody means well. 2) "Globalization" may suck for a lot of people but it prevents wars, and wars suck worse 3) It can all fall apart faster than you think.

Nothing is inevitable. If we manage to avoid disaster (though the hard work of everyone reading this, if at all) then I will take those lessons with me for the rest of my life, and I hope many other people will too. I hope this brush with WWIII is close enough to teach us, and we don't need to go through the real thing in order to learn what we already knew, once.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:15 AM on February 2, 2017 [41 favorites]




We're already Working Toward The Führer, are we? Good god.

No not in this case. Having a person at the top who relies on subordinates to bring them things is pretty normal way of running a government or business. That's why one of the traits of a 'good' boss is someone who is secure enough with people that are smarter then him around specific areas and will actually listen to them as well as be able to take complex info from these sources and analyze the pros and cons in the light of the big picture.

Donald is not this.
posted by Jalliah at 11:16 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


A "Mrs. Melania Trump" with a japanese email address and a DC area phone number just sent me this [real]:

GOOD DAY MY DEAREST! I am Mrs. Melania Trump and I am writing to inform you about your Bank Cheque Draft here in White House Washington DC, which was brought by the United Embassy from the government of Benin Republic. Your Bank Cheque Draft was brought here in the White House Washington DC, on March 18th 2016. And it has been mandated to be delivered to your address on Thursday being of Feb 2nd 2017 to you as soon as you get back to me. I will like you to reconfirm to me the following details [list of stuff including "Your email and password"] The above requirements is for Security Reasons
Sincerely yours
Mrs. Melania Trump
THE WHITE HOUSE{OFFICIAL RESIDENCE OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE US} 1600 PENNSYLVANIA AVENUE NW WASHINGTON DC 20500 USA........... CONGRATULATIONS THIS IS A WAY OF APPRECIATING YOU FOR YOUR VOTE.
posted by elgilito at 11:16 AM on February 2, 2017 [49 favorites]


"Look, I told the bad hombres I said - 'I'll come for yeh men,' and I meant it. I came for yeh men, I got em." [sniffs loudly into microphone]
posted by Tevin at 11:16 AM on February 2, 2017


haha oh hi there America it's your pal Mexico look this has been a really good practical joke and we've all had a good laugh but WHAT THE SHIT ARE YOU DOING UP THERE.

(country worry sandwich)
posted by Omon Ra at 11:18 AM on February 2, 2017 [41 favorites]


Not only do I agree with sciatrix that comments mocking red-staters are unhelpful in the context of our community here, I would also argue that this perspective infecting the Democratic Party for so long is a big reason for why it does so poorly in these states.

“Why aren’t we running a D candidate in this district in Arkansas?” “What’s the point?”

The point is that we give people an option. The point is that these people who care about social progress and protecting their neighbors have ALWAYS lived in these states, but have been given so incredibly few leaders to rally around and push back. Andrea Grimes has written a lot of coverage about Texas politics, and one theme that emerges is that the craven absence of Democratic Party support for progressives in the region because “why bother lol” is absolutely shameful.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 11:18 AM on February 2, 2017 [59 favorites]


the uncomplicated soups of my childhood, make room for us on the maple-scented couch.

(What I mean to say is HELP US PLEASE DEAR GOD)
posted by INFJ at 11:19 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


The White House Correspondents Dinner is apparently still happening.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:20 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


GOP super PAC linked to Paul Ryan used illegally hacked material against Democratic House candidates: report

They are all owned by Russia, every last one of them.
posted by Artw at 11:20 AM on February 2, 2017 [43 favorites]


Californians: I just called our senators and actually got through, SO Y'ALL AIN'T CALLING ENOUGH.

KEEP THEM PHONES BUSY
posted by entropicamericana at 11:20 AM on February 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


“Why aren’t we running a D candidate in this district in Arkansas?” “What’s the point?”

Just for the record, there are several districts in Michigan that have been gerrymandered so deep blue that the GOP doesn't run candidates in them. "What's the point?" isn't inexplicable or unique to Democrats.
posted by Etrigan at 11:21 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


I wonder if Lars Larson from the Lars Larson show will be there?
posted by ian1977 at 11:21 AM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Is someone working on a #nextpost? If not, I will do a fairly quick one. Please advise!
posted by Wordshore at 11:22 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Just for the record, there are several districts in Michigan that have been gerrymandered so deep blue that the GOP doesn't run candidates in them. "What's the point?" isn't inexplicable or unique to Democrats.

No, but there are districts in the south that Clinton won that the DNC didn't run anyone in. Clearly, they aren't allergic to Dems, and I have a hard time believing they couldn't find anyone.
posted by dinty_moore at 11:23 AM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


I think Coventry & co are working on one using the collaboration app.
posted by mochapickle at 11:24 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Wordshore, you should do it. There's suggestions from people here, if you're interested.
posted by Coventry at 11:24 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


>The point is that we give people an option.

A constant refrain I heard in my conversations while phone banking for Hillary in rural Ohio: "WOW, I thought I was the only Democrat!" Literally hundreds of times.

Giving up on districts is a self fulfilling prophecy. It isolates voters and sends potential defectors the other direction.

The work we're doing now is geared toward finding these lonely Democrats and bringing us all together. We might not end up winning a lot of races but we'll give them a hell of a fight.
posted by Tevin at 11:24 AM on February 2, 2017 [19 favorites]


The White House Correspondents Dinner is apparently still happening.

Carrie is going to the prom!
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:24 AM on February 2, 2017 [21 favorites]


I'm suffering choice paralysis about what to call about, EVERYTHING IS AWFUL. I know what I'm calling my House rep about today, but when I think of calling/faxing Feinstein and/or Harris, I just want to scream into the phone "STOP ALL OF THIS. DON'T ROLL OVER." I faxed them about the ban and Sessions already, what fresh hell do I need to yell about now? Gorsuch? DeVos? Bannon?
posted by yasaman at 11:25 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


This liberal lady and her liberal mama and her angry-as-hell friends thank you from Mississippi, sciatrix. We are victims of our ignorant and hateful leaders. We are trying to fight from within. It is enervating and disheartening to be painted with one large brush by our supposed allies at the same time facing ignorance and hatefulness in our own families, places of business, and just walking down the street. So many of us are So. Fucking. Tired. And yet we rise.
posted by thebrokedown at 11:25 AM on February 2, 2017 [32 favorites]


I guess we can work on it there together, if that works for you.
posted by Coventry at 11:25 AM on February 2, 2017


"It was at the end of a long day & he was tired & fatigue was setting in."

30 Sep 2016: For those few people knocking me for tweeting at three o'clock in the morning, at least you know I will be there, awake, to answer the call!

And hanging it up, apparently.
posted by Evilspork at 11:25 AM on February 2, 2017 [20 favorites]


>Carrie is going to the prom!

oh god that ends poorly for literally everybody
posted by lydhre at 11:26 AM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


"It was at the end of a long day & he was tired & fatigue was setting in."

Gramps is sundowning again.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:28 AM on February 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


> "It was at the end of a long day & he was tired & fatigue was setting in."

Keep a log of every time this is an excuse for some kind of shit. If he cannot do his job at the end of a long day, he cannot do the job. He is unfit.
posted by Tevin at 11:30 AM on February 2, 2017 [31 favorites]


I think despite the panicking going on, the calculus for Democrat's best Supreme Court strategy is pretty simple. IF there is a supreme court vacancy, AND Trump nominates a conservative judge (there is no longer a reason to suspect he will not in future), AND there is a GOP Senate, AND the Dems filibuster, THEN the GOP Senate will destroy the filibuster for nominees. It's a cast-iron guarantee.

Given this, Democrats should observe that they now have an excellent technical and moral reason to oppose Gorsuch's nomination: the theft of the seat from Garland. This is not a political rationale, it's based on fairness. The GOP will be forced to do away with the filibuster for nominees (which is what they would be doing next time they face opposition to a judicial nominee anyway), and the Dems will get points for having some backbone.


Exactly. I don't know why this is so goddamn complicated.

Think for just a second. Even if you're a vulnerable Democrat in a Red State. In addition to being a racist POS, isn't it pretty clear that Trump is going to fuck up the economy with his incompetence and his austerity cuts and the healthcare debacle? Why do you want any part of that?

Make the RNC and Trump own that 100% There's never been a better time or reason to vote "No" as a bloc and across the board.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:30 AM on February 2, 2017 [31 favorites]




I think Coventry & co are working on one using the collaboration app.

Wordshore, you should do it. There's suggestions from people here, if you're interested.


I had a brief look at that then it crashed on me (my tech is old, probably why). It looked good; you've gotten much further than me so I'll drop out rather than slow you folks up.
posted by Wordshore at 11:31 AM on February 2, 2017


It's 5:30pm. Don't call gramps, he needs his nap.
posted by Artw at 11:33 AM on February 2, 2017


@joekeene
BREAKING: #Punxsutawneyphil draws a larger crowd than @realDonaldTrump's #Inauguration. Has bigger hands, too. #GroundHogDay
posted by INFJ at 11:33 AM on February 2, 2017 [26 favorites]


IF there is a supreme court vacancy, AND Trump nominates a conservative judge (there is no longer a reason to suspect he will not in future), AND there is a GOP Senate, AND the Dems filibuster, THEN the GOP Senate will destroy the filibuster for nominees. It's a cast-iron guarantee.

I had this debate with a lefty lawyer friend of mine last night. He thinks that Gorsuch is qualified and deserves consideration; my response is that IF the Dems don't filibuster, then sure the GOP won't nuke the filibuster but the Dems will have lost it anyway. Force them to nuke the filibuster, and OWN that public action.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:33 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


Even if youre a vulnerable Dem in a red state....if you show some spine and then sadly lose re-election? My god, I think you'll be okay. You'll just go back to being a lawyer or a car dealership owner or a lobbyist or whatever the fuck it was you did before you got into politics.
posted by ian1977 at 11:33 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


The largest party in the EU wants to reject the US's new ambassador due to his statements denigrating the EU, including his goal to "tame the block like he brought down the Soviet Union."
posted by zachlipton at 11:33 AM on February 2, 2017 [33 favorites]


Another red-stater here joining the chorus. I grew up in Missouri and now live in Arizona, and while I've lived in lots of other places (including Europe, which is probably why I'm such a commie), this is my home now. There are a lot of us here. There is every reason to believe that we may shift purple in 2018, and it's even more likely by 2020. That's because a) we are working hard to make sure people know they're not alone, and to give them concrete reasons for voting Democrat by being a positive presence in the community between elections, and b) we were doing so well, even the DNC finally took notice and has started allocating resources.

Even a cactus needs access to at least some water to survive and thrive. Be the water.
posted by Superplin at 11:34 AM on February 2, 2017 [30 favorites]


Oh by the way, re: Texas, the local Democratic Women's Leadership group was throwing a New Member function at a local distillery. They could only accommodate 300 people in the facility. Over twice that number tried to register to come; the heads of the group had to go on Facebook and ask a lot of us to wait and come to the next meeting instead so the fire marshall wouldn't throw them out.
posted by emjaybee at 11:36 AM on February 2, 2017 [19 favorites]


Looks like the DeVos vote is going to be Monday.

If y'all could russle up one more R vote my son, on behalf of public school children everywhere, would thank you.

On another note, the article mentions that a big chunk of the Rs will be at a policy retreat in Palm Beach Friday and Saturday. I wish that some local organizer could mobilize enough bodies to shut the city down. Honestly, if I were within even three states of that I'd do it myself. Protesters at the airport, on every street corner and intersection. Just shut it all down.
posted by anastasiav at 11:36 AM on February 2, 2017 [25 favorites]


He thinks that Gorsuch is qualified and deserves consideration

Yes, he has a driver's license, but the car they want him to drive is stolen.
posted by Etrigan at 11:38 AM on February 2, 2017 [55 favorites]


I couldn't even get to voicemail boxes on any of my two Senator's numbers. Texans are calling.
posted by emjaybee at 11:38 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


The raid was scrubbed under Obama .....Trump proceeded, for self-evident reasons of ape-fingered machismo

You know, I know the peeing-on-Obama's-bed is now most-likely-didn't-happen, but I just keep getting drawn to how many times Trump seems like he wants to Do What Obama Did, But Better! Way Better Than That Guy!
posted by corb at 11:41 AM on February 2, 2017 [15 favorites]


everyone come up with the stupidest thing they can think of for an american president to say or do and let's see if he doesn't top us before he goes to bed tonight

i keep hoping someone he thinks is really super alpha challenges him to a breath-holding contest and he is more determined than he has ever been in his life to win it
posted by poffin boffin at 11:42 AM on February 2, 2017 [17 favorites]


everyone come up with the stupidest thing they can think of for an american president to say or do and let's see if he doesn't top us before he goes to bed tonight

If Canada doesn't control their bad Canucks we're going to have to send the navy to the big lakes so they'll be there to keep an eye on your capital.
posted by Jalliah at 11:53 AM on February 2, 2017


Breath-holding contests don't work as a method of assassination. The target just passes out and automatically starts breathing again.
posted by tel3path at 11:55 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Er, so I heard.
posted by tel3path at 11:55 AM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


He could do literally the stupidest thing ever and we'd all be wondering how it is secretly super genius.
posted by ian1977 at 11:56 AM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Still, it's worth a try.
posted by notyou at 11:56 AM on February 2, 2017


Tournament rules: duct tape and nose plugs.
posted by valkane at 11:56 AM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


On another note, the article mentions that a big chunk of the Rs will be at a policy retreat in Palm Beach Friday and Saturday.

It would be... interesting... to see what one could do with a small budget and a well-thought-out set of keywords and some geofencing on Google AdWords and Facebook over that weekend.
posted by Shepherd at 11:58 AM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


Breath-holding contests don't work as a method of assassination. The target just passes out and automatically starts breathing again.

If there is anyone stupid and egotistical enough to cheat to win a breath-holding contest to the point that he ends up dead...
posted by Etrigan at 11:58 AM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


NYTimes on the Prayer Breakfast: (emphasis mine)

President Trump and Arnold Schwarzenegger were embroiled in a long-distance feud on Thursday after the president used a prayer breakfast speech to taunt the action star about his reality show ratings, and Mr. Schwarzenegger fired back in a video posted on Twitter.

To be clear, this is actually happening.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:59 AM on February 2, 2017 [27 favorites]


Picks up a pair of handguns to do a Yosemite Sam impression and shoots himself in both feet?
posted by tel3path at 11:59 AM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Cheer up everybody! Trump's first term is nearly 1% over!
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:00 PM on February 2, 2017 [20 favorites]


To be clear, this is actually happening.

And that's like the third craziest thing to happen today. And it's only 3:00!
posted by diogenes at 12:00 PM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]




Challenge him to stair walking contest.
posted by Jalliah at 12:01 PM on February 2, 2017 [17 favorites]


Haha I remember when I was relieved that Ahnuld was not native born so couldn't run for President, as opposed to now when I would take him in a hot minute.
posted by emjaybee at 12:01 PM on February 2, 2017 [39 favorites]


I was thinking we need a new slogan from "this is not normal" because, well, in Trump's US increasingly it will the norm to do atrocious thing after atrocious thing.

I would settle for *punch a fucking Nazi to-day* mostly because that's what sings in my heart. The desire to punch a fucking Nazi. If one of you said, "Angrycat, we need to detach your arm to punch Nazis" and I said "Including Trump" and you said yes I would be like here's a penknife, I'll just cut it off for you. Ow. Worth it.
posted by angrycat at 12:01 PM on February 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


trump has already done all the stupidest things a potus could say or do and still got elected.

i honestly cannot think of anyhting at all that he could do ... maybe take way medicare? social security? shut down every coal mine and steel plant?


The one I've been wondering about is reinstating the draft.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 12:01 PM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


To be clear, this is actually happening.

As mentioned in this thread five hours ago....
posted by mudpuppie at 12:01 PM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


At this point, I believe that many people who are for trump just don't listen to the news at all.

Legit. Apparently there was a conversation after I left work last night where one coworker was shocked --SHOCKED-- to learn that Steve Bannon was was a white supremacist. She literally had never heard that before.

But oh boy she's got some opinions on immigrants and abortions and how much America needed a change I tell you what.
posted by phunniemee at 12:01 PM on February 2, 2017 [19 favorites]


angrycat....I don't think that's how punching works.
posted by ian1977 at 12:02 PM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


If Canada doesn't control their bad Canucks we're going to have to send the navy to the big lakes so they'll be there to keep an eye on your capital.

*three months later*

"Um, which lake is Ottawa on again?"
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:02 PM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


For anyone giving up on any semblance of congressional checks and balances on this president, let us consider the facts.

1. Senate Republicans have a two-seat majority, plus Mike Pence as a tie-breaker.
2. Two Republican senators, McCain and Graham, have described Trump's immigration executive order as "a gift to ISIS". This is an amazingly serious charge to make against your own party's president.
3. Two other Republican senators, Collins and Murkowski, have indicated they will vote against Trump's nominee for Secretary of Education, meaning only one more Republican no-vote is required for the nomination to fail. Again, this is extremely serious.
4. The above Republican senators, as well as various others, are likely to be highly resistant to destroying the legislative filibuster; either because they are traditionalists, or because they value the power the legislative filibuster gives them personally in the long term.
5. The vast majority of senators despise President Trump with the power of 10,000 suns.
6. Trump started at low popularity and is plummeting. If this continues, there is a real prospect of Republican politicians trying to portray themselves as a check on Trump's power rather than an unquestioning Trump ally, purely out of self-interest.
7. If the legislative filibuster remains, most legislation will require significant Democratic support.

While I am terrified of Trump's power over the military, immigration, regulations, foreign relations, executive departmental management, and his ability to get conservative Supreme Court nominees confirmed, I remain hopeful that it may be very difficult for Trump to pass many pieces of controversial legislation.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:03 PM on February 2, 2017 [33 favorites]


There's no reason to punish people for not being able to stay glued to this thread all damn day. :(
posted by ian1977 at 12:03 PM on February 2, 2017 [12 favorites]


I took a break from Ye Olde Post for a couple days but stayed apprised on Twitter.

I wrote a letter to my D Senator this morning and I don't know what to do with it. I poured my heart out. Not on any particular issue but that WE NEED SOMEONE TO HELP US NOT DIE. Someone needs to stop this, this is all complete madness and I at this point am at least temporarily done fighting issue-by-issue because THERE IS A MADMAN BEING LED AROUND BY WHITE SUPREMACISTS IN THE GODDAMN OVAL OFFICE and I am fucking freaking the fuck out.

I want to just go... sit somewhere, in public and just... sit down. Until this stops. Until an adult steps in and does something. I'll pack a couple sandwiches. Because seriously we're all going to die.


(And then I went to the post office and mailed my Canadian passport application again--once more, with marriage license.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:03 PM on February 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


Proposed next post. You can contribute here.

"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose." — Frederick Douglass

The second week of the Trump administration is wearing Trump out, it seems, and triggering him during liasions with long-standing, key allies. In more positive news, he implied that Frederick Douglass is still with us, and this was confirmed by his Press Secretary. The nation awaits his reappearance with bated breath.

<fold>

No doubt part of what's so wearing for Trump is the grinding media coverage of the opposition to his immigration ban, his ("successful") raid on Yemen, the military leaks about that, and his bizarre cabinet picks (warning: that last link is highly believable satire.)

But at least he got his Secretary of State confirmed, and they've been able to start walking back Obama's Russia sanctions, so while the optics are bad, they're making progress on their key priorities...

A date has been chosen for the March for Science: April 22nd. You should go, and maybe wear a pink lab coat.
posted by Coventry at 12:04 PM on February 2, 2017 [13 favorites]


"Um, which lake is Ottawa on again?"

Ha ha yep! And also "What! Toronto isn't the capital of Canada?"
posted by Jalliah at 12:04 PM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


I have never commented so much on a post in metafilter before.

Thanks for listening to me blow off steam and be a little snarky here and there. It helps keep the CRUSHING OVERWHELMING FEAR OF OUR DEMISE at bay.
posted by INFJ at 12:08 PM on February 2, 2017 [21 favorites]


"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose." — Frederick Douglass

I think you mean...

Frederick Douglas @RealFrederickDouglas 1hr: "The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose. #stillalive"
posted by ian1977 at 12:09 PM on February 2, 2017 [18 favorites]


Remember WTF Has Obama Done So Far.com and similar sites? Is there one for _rump yet? I wonder if I can get the website maker to clone that site for this, but add a chronological list, perhaps with color-coding for topics.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:10 PM on February 2, 2017


Force them to nuke the filibuster, and OWN that public action.

This wouldn't be a bad, embarrassing, or electorally harmful thing for them to own. The number of Americans who give more than a passing shit about the filibuster is pretty much the number of Senate scholars in the US plus maybe five more weirdos.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:11 PM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


New post looks fab. Run that sucker!
posted by notyou at 12:11 PM on February 2, 2017


Um.
Ottawa is a city in, and the county seat of, Franklin County, Kansas, United States. It is situated along the Marais des Cygnes River. As of the 2010 census, the city population was 12,649 - Wikipedia
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:11 PM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


The number of Americans who give more than a passing shit about the filibuster is pretty much the number of Senate scholars in the US plus maybe five more weirdos.

You know, Senate scholars have a lot of power to shape the debate...
posted by saysthis at 12:12 PM on February 2, 2017


Thanks for listening to me blow off steam and be a little snarky here and there. It helps keep the CRUSHING OVERWHELMING FEAR OF OUR DEMISE at bay.

Please remember to only freak out for one hour a day, practice self care, and call your senators.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:13 PM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


ATTN NC MEFITES: NC's Thom Tillis's office says he's undecided & wants 2 hear from people (919) 856-4630 (202) 224-6342 RT!

Undecided on which selections? He said "Judge Neil Gorsuch is an incredibly qualified and mainstream choice to serve on the Supreme Court"
posted by filthy light thief at 12:14 PM on February 2, 2017


Please remember to only freak out for one hour a day, practice self care, and call your senators.

Wait is that the agreed upon bar? Because I'm lucky if I get one hour NOT freaking out.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:16 PM on February 2, 2017 [14 favorites]


filthy light thief: Remember WTF Has Obama Done So Far.com and similar sites? Is there one for _rump yet? I wonder if I can get the website maker to clone that site for this, but add a chronological list, perhaps with color-coding for topics.

Linked above. Would this do?
posted by slipthought at 12:17 PM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Who could have imagined that they would Freak Out in Washington DC?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:18 PM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]




You know, Senate scholars have a lot of power to shape the debate...

This is the point at which Sarah Binder, Steve Smith, and Greg Koger start by laughing and eventually just collapse into sobbing.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:19 PM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Heh. The rogue Badlands National Park Twitter account has changed its name to BadHombreLands.
posted by mudpuppie at 12:19 PM on February 2, 2017 [47 favorites]


I would also like to note that the phrase "what the fuck" has been used 13 (now 14) times in this thread.

The last thread had 20. Hmm... signs of normalizing?
posted by slipthought at 12:22 PM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]




We've established that many people are now running deficits in fucks.
posted by INFJ at 12:23 PM on February 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


what the fuck are you talking about slipthought
posted by prefpara at 12:24 PM on February 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


personally i'm working on a final bon mot to post on metafilter when the missiles are airborne.

I have no idea how these people got their neutrons wedged into their plutonium-239, or why.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:25 PM on February 2, 2017 [18 favorites]


I am not concerned about reinstating the draft. The last time we had a draft, mainstream society was a lot more homogenized; anyone who didn't fit into it was crammed into that role.

I had a long rant here; I clipped it out. It touched on: Homosexual or bi soldiers; religions like Wicca and Satanism (which are currently active in the military, but those want to be there, not to scare their squadmates), food allergies, general unfitness of the populace, trans conscripts, and drug use. (Last I'd heard, having ever consumed LSD was an instant "disqualified from military" thing - they're worried about flashbacks.) And that's before we get into the "should women be drafted" debate explosion.

All the current military restrictions on communication, assembly, and speech are designed for volunteers. Opening the draft would just highlight how much it's similar to slavery - and how little respect much of the public has for the military.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:25 PM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


rewil: Ijeoma Oluo: You know what causes resistance fatigue? Assholes who claim to be with us, telling us that our defeat is preordained and our protest is useless.

I would love to see that linked in the next post. Everyone should read it.
posted by Superplin at 12:26 PM on February 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


The Jam's "Down in a Tube Station at Midnight" keeps coming up on my new wave Pandora station. I guess it's just a sign of the zeitgeist.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:26 PM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


I would love to see a word cloud of all of these threads since January of 2016. I think it would be eyeopening to see what the fuck had has happened.
posted by Tevin at 12:27 PM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


prefpara: what the fuck are you talking about slipthought

I noticed cus I was looking for the link to "What the fuck just happened today" that had been linked above.
posted by slipthought at 12:27 PM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Even 'what the fuck' loses all meaning when it's said too often.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:27 PM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


The last thread had 20. Hmm... signs of normalizing?

I still regularly say it in my head. I'm thinking about getting it tattooed I say it so much.
posted by Jalliah at 12:27 PM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Undecided on which selections?

Undecided on DeVos, sorry!
posted by entropicamericana at 12:28 PM on February 2, 2017


I am not concerned about reinstating the draft.

This time last week, I wasn't concerned about pissing off Australia.
posted by Etrigan at 12:28 PM on February 2, 2017 [48 favorites]


Well I'm dodging that draft, if it comes to that. Real simple. Go get you some passports, people!
posted by saysthis at 12:29 PM on February 2, 2017


I would also like to note that the phrase "what the fuck" has been used 13 (now 14) times in this thread.

The last thread had 20. Hmm... signs of normalizing?


Im shocked anyone has any fucks left to give.
posted by dis_integration at 12:30 PM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


old school conservatives are losing sleep over the gravity of the situation.

So what they are now only sleeping 23 hours and 59 minutes a day?
posted by srboisvert at 12:31 PM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


I'm still mad that she shit the bed but the way to fix it is to encourage good behavior now.

ok but your dog doesn't want to put muslims in internment camps

i mean, i assume
posted by poffin boffin at 12:31 PM on February 2, 2017 [15 favorites]


Opening the draft would just highlight how much it's similar to slavery - and how little respect much of the public has for the military.

I can't see that of being any importance to Lord Dampnut. He just wouldn't care. He'd couch it in terms about how it's necessary to protect America from [everyone]. They should be proud to fight for our country!
posted by INFJ at 12:31 PM on February 2, 2017


Post preview html. Rendered. Going up in 10 minutes.
posted by Coventry at 12:31 PM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


I noticed cus I was...

my sense of humor is like, what the fuck? sorry it didn't come across like the joke it was meant to be
posted by prefpara at 12:32 PM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Note that if there is a draft and you are drafted, choosing to be imprisoned rather than fleeing the country is one way to force the government to spend resources on your imprisonment that it can't spend on bombs.
posted by biogeo at 12:33 PM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]



Like right now I'm reading about Russia quieting installing new missiles on it's border that can reach Denmark. And Denmark is basically calling out 'WTF!' and in my head I'm all "Yeah no doubt Denmark, WTF!'
posted by Jalliah at 12:33 PM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


I really, strongly advise we get metafilter mirrored and hosted outside the United States.
posted by saysthis at 12:35 PM on February 2, 2017 [31 favorites]


So Denmark has a stockpile of fucks?
posted by ian1977 at 12:35 PM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Note that if there is a draft and you are drafted, choosing to be imprisoned rather than fleeing the country is one way to force the government to spend resources on your imprisonment that it can't spend on bombs.

Apparently it's also a really good reason to finally try LSD as I learned upthread.
posted by emjaybee at 12:35 PM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


I have never seen Raiders Of The Lost Ark. I managed to turn out anti-fascist regardless.
posted by INFJ at 8:56 on February 2 [1 favorite +] [!]

I know people are wondering what they can do to help, and there's been some talk about volunteering upthread. But one thing that MeFites can do right now is get INFJ a copy of Raiders so they can watch it as soon as possible.


Is this the time to share my fanfic where Indiana Jones discovers a time machine in 1947 and uses it to travel to the year 2017 where he punches Nazis, like really shows us future folks how to do it, and then saves democracy before going back to his own time?

Also, we show him Kingdom of the Crystal Skull while he's here and promises never to go on that adventure for our sake. Needless to say, we owe him twice over at the end of the story.
posted by Servo5678 at 12:36 PM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


After this mornings prayer Breakfast it seems that the 60 year law separating Church and State is about to go as an apparent leaked executive order promises to enshrine conservative Christian beliefs in policy.
The leaked draft maintains that, as a matter of policy, “Americans and their religious organizations will not be coerced by the Federal Government into participating in activities that violate their conscience.”
posted by adamvasco at 12:36 PM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


I really, strongly advise we get metafilter mirrored and hosted outside the United States.

Perhaps someone should entertain a gofundme because those costs are not gonna pay for themselves.
posted by rough ashlar at 12:36 PM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


filthy light thief: Remember WTF Has Obama Done So Far.com and similar sites? Is there one for _rump yet? I wonder if I can get the website maker to clone that site for this, but add a chronological list, perhaps with color-coding for topics.

slipthought: Linked above. Would this do?

Yes, thanks! (I'm casually skimming the thread and using the GraphFi bookmarklet (also available as GraphFi Injector, a Safari extension) find the highlights.)
posted by filthy light thief at 12:37 PM on February 2, 2017


> I am not concerned about reinstating the draft

I have a teenage son, so, I am.
posted by The corpse in the library at 12:37 PM on February 2, 2017 [18 favorites]


So Denmark has a stockpile of fucks?

We should invade them, and take any evens or fucks we find there.
posted by Coventry at 12:37 PM on February 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


So Denmark has a stockpile of fucks?

They're much more diplomatic about it. You can hear the cries in the background though.


Cyberattacks against Denmark’s security, power supply and medical center installations have materialized as a "serious" and ever-present threat, said Frederiksen....
There is also visible unease among both Nordic and Baltic-rim states to Russia’s increasing unpredictability in the region, and Moscow’s action to reinforce its missile strike capability from its Kaliningrad enclave....
"The new missiles being installed by Russia in Kaliningrad have the ability to reach Danish cities like Copenhagen. The future threats we face are now both cyber- and missiles-based," Frederiksen said

posted by Jalliah at 12:38 PM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


ok but your dog doesn't want to put muslims in internment camps

i mean, i assume


If they did, that wouldn't be a good dog, puffin muffin.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:38 PM on February 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


I really, strongly advise we get metafilter mirrored and hosted outside the United States.

Perhaps someone should entertain a gofundme because those costs are not gonna pay for themselves.
posted by rough ashlar at 4:36 AM on February 3 [+] [!]


I'm sitting here with this open wallet...
posted by saysthis at 12:38 PM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Hi Coventry! may i ask that you add the tags "election" and "usa" to the new post?
Thank You (and everyone here) for your efforts!
posted by The_Auditor at 12:38 PM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


To be clear: I care about things that aren't personal, too. But I care more, I will admit, when it's about the people sitting next to me on the sofa.
posted by The corpse in the library at 12:38 PM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


After this mornings prayer Breakfast it seems that the 60 year law separating Church and State is about to go as an apparent leaked executive order promises to enshrine conservative Christian beliefs in policy.
The leaked draft maintains that, as a matter of policy, “Americans and their religious organizations will not be coerced by the Federal Government into participating in activities that violate their conscience.”


It is too bad the culture of whistleblowing was shot to hell by the last guy because a leak showing WHO'S plan that is would be nice.

Sounds WAY to 'church'y to be Dear Leader.
posted by rough ashlar at 12:39 PM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]



Somehow through my twitter adventures I've found myself following some people who post about what Russia seems to be doing in the Nordic regions. Moving missiles, building up troops along the Finnish border. Stuff like that. It's very unsettling.
posted by Jalliah at 12:40 PM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


New post! (With those tags, The_Auditor.)
posted by Coventry at 12:42 PM on February 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


adamvasco: After this mornings prayer Breakfast it seems that the 60 year law separating Church and State is about to go as an apparent leaked executive order promises to enshrine conservative Christian beliefs in policy.

Ffffuuuu.... I know EOs are often (not always) empty promises/ threats that will fall apart under the slightest judicial scrutinity, but I wonder how this will play out to further separate the country. Yes, the US population predominantly identifies as Christian, but how many hew to conservative views? Then again, looking at the Pew Forum breakdown, only 1.6% of the US population is Mormon, but they are a significant voice in many discussions.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:44 PM on February 2, 2017


@JustSchmeltzer
It ain't hard to see the REAL point repealing the Johnson Amendment. Explained below...
Watch this magic trick. kids:

1. Trump gets a repeal of the Johnson Amendment, allowing churches to engage in partisan political activity and not lose their tax exempt status.
2. "Churches" start to run ads, run field efforts, etc etc for candidates, all tax exempt.
3. People make political donations to "churches" - and write it off on their taxes!
4. "Churches.' don't have to report any of those tax-exempt donations, so everything is hidden.
5. A new way to flood politics with unregulated, unreported money is born -AND it all becomes tax-deductible. too!

Drain the swamp - or Swamp the Drain
posted by chris24 at 12:44 PM on February 2, 2017 [48 favorites]


(The Young Pope is trending too close to _rump's reality to be a fun distraction. For all the stark differences between Lenny and Donny, there are a number of ideological mirrors that it's feeling like more of a warning of what might be.)
posted by filthy light thief at 12:45 PM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom the

nice touch. i assume the remainder of the sentence was vaporized in the fireball?
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 12:54 PM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


It is too bad the culture of whistleblowing was shot to hell by the last guy because a leak showing WHO'S plan that is would be nice.

Uh, have you seen the leaks coming out of this administration? Literally everybody below the level of POTUS is ratting everybody else the fuck out.
posted by joyceanmachine at 12:55 PM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]




Somehow through my twitter adventures I've found myself following some people who post about what Russia seems to be doing in the Nordic regions. Moving missiles, building up troops along the Finnish border. Stuff like that. It's very unsettling.

Also: The [OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine (SMM)] noted a significant increase in ceasefire violations recorded in Donetsk region, including over 10,330 explosions, compared with around 2,500 in the previous reporting period. The number of explosions was the highest yet recorded by the SMM.
posted by effbot at 1:03 PM on February 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


To be clear, this is actually happening.

Guys, here's where we are: the fucking New York Times is now using [fake] and [real] tags.

Like right now I'm reading about Russia quieting installing new missiles on it's border that can reach Denmark.

I swear to god, if they kill Mads Mikkelsen before there's a fourth season of Hannibal, I'll personally throttle Putin with my bare hands.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:11 PM on February 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


I really love the idea of every country that comes in contact with Lord Dampnut just treating him as a child and punishing him with timeouts and whatever the grownup equivalent is.

"Suspending diplomatic relations"
posted by UbuRoivas at 1:15 PM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


I > I am not concerned about reinstating the draft

I have a teenage son, so, I am.


Same here. On the days that are bad enough to make me cry, this is the main reason.
posted by bibliowench at 1:15 PM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


selected headlines from Talking Points Memo right now:

"Fox News: DHS Secretary Says Parts Of Border Wall Will Be 'See Through'"

"Trump: 'Just Don't Worry' About Leaked Phone Call Transcripts" [note they are referring to Donald Trump, who is apparently the US President, wtf?]

"GOP Sen: 'I’m Delighted' About Confusion On Putting Iran 'On Notice'"

is today April Fool's Day? if so, this is in bad taste
posted by indubitable at 1:31 PM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


newp ost
posted by XtinaS at 1:45 PM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]




newt pose
posted by flatluigi at 2:46 PM on February 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


I'll just put it in here that Danes curse a lot more than other people. We've used several million WTF's since November, but our supply is rich and bountiful.
posted by mumimor at 2:49 PM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


You realize that one nuclear exchange is everyone losing, right?

I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than ten to twenty million killed, tops. Uh, depending on the breaks.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:38 PM on February 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


There really isn't a Strangelove quote that doesn't work right now.
posted by octothorpe at 4:57 PM on February 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


It is too bad the culture of whistleblowing was shot to hell by the last guy because a leak showing WHO'S plan that is would be nice.

Sounds WAY to 'church'y to be Dear Leader.

Pence.
posted by jaduncan at 5:02 PM on February 2, 2017


Parts Of Border Wall Will Be 'See Through'

Just like in that Arnold Schwarzenegger narrated documentary The Running Man, except that that see-through wall was meant to keep people IN ... uhm ...
posted by Bringer Tom at 5:54 PM on February 2, 2017


You know those wannabe Alex P. Keaton types couldn't shut up about it

The first rule of Fascism Club is you don't shut up about Fascism Club
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:00 PM on February 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Did anyone call for laser projecting slogans? Here you go.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 6:04 PM on February 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


"The fact that the world’s tyrants are ex-territorial explains the extent of their overseeing power, yet it also indicates a coming weakness. They operate in cyberspace and they lodge in guarded condominiums. They have no knowledge of the surrounding earth. Furthermore, they dismiss such knowledge as superficial, not profound. Only extracted resources count. They cannot listen to the earth. On the ground they are blind. In the local they are lost.

For fellow prisoners the opposite is true. Cells have walls that touch across the world. Effective acts of sustained resistance will be embedded in the local, near and far. Outback resistance, listening to the earth.

Liberty is slowly being found not outside but in the depths of the prison."
- John Berger. I just want to post this excerpt somewhere each time I listen to the piece. (to slightly avoid ex-territorial tyrants, here's a relevant link to startpage.com)
posted by sylvanshine at 6:16 PM on February 2, 2017 [3 favorites]




The first rule of Fascism Club is you don't shut up about Fascism Club

Welcome to the Secret Fraternity of Balls & Shaft.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:00 AM on February 3, 2017


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