Dammit, I gotta pee!

February 11, 2017 10:28 AM

Broadway’s Bathroom Problem: Have to Go? Hurry Up, or Hold It
posted by strelitzia (50 comments total)

MUCH NEEDED. We see 3-5 shows a month, and whether or not I drink water during a show is completely dependent on whether or not I think I can make an intermission bathroom stop.

Seriously, though, Broadway would be a much better place if we could just do gender neutral restrooms during intermission.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:50 AM on February 11, 2017 [8 favorites]

Just started reading the article - would recommend this as a soundtrack:

Urinetown - It's A Privilege To Pee

Also, New York Times headline writer - whoever you are - you missed a chance to name-check a muscial ABOUT PEEING in that headline.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:50 AM on February 11, 2017 [12 favorites]

No kidding, if you go to most NYC theaters and are female, it truly is a privilege to pee. And London is even worse than New York.
posted by still_wears_a_hat at 11:16 AM on February 11, 2017

Yep this is any situation with a huge group of people all on the same schedule. I find it amazing and fascinating that they're actually renovating these old theaters to restrooms though I feel bad for the dudes - like that one theater they mentioned that only added one additional toilet.

A few years ago at 4th of July on the beach at Lake Michigan there were so many drunk women standing on line for the 3 grimy womens' stalls that we said fuck it and just took over the mens' room.

I wouldn't be opposed to unisex bathrooms if they could build them Europe-style with walls that go all the way down to the floor. Too many dudes still don't know how to behave in public for me to feel comfortable being around them with my pants down.
posted by bleep at 11:20 AM on February 11, 2017 [7 favorites]

and Lord help the self-conscious user of bathrooms
it is a bad time for the performance anxiety that somehow got hard-wired into some of us as small children
posted by Countess Elena at 11:28 AM on February 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

And liquid consumption — both hydration and libation — has also changed

Is this code for "theater owners try to cram liquor sales into the crowd before a show and are suddenly surprised when everyone needs to pee 90 minutes later"?
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:42 AM on February 11, 2017 [29 favorites]

The toilet situation at the Lyric Opera House here in Chicago is really pretty good, though up on the fifth floor where I can afford seats the plumbing power is definitely an issue. Women come bustling out of stalls apologizing and embarrassed saying, "I just couldn't get it to flush," and I try to explain to folks it's not their fault, we're on a high floor of an old building where everyone's flushing at the same time, and that it will flush if you just hold the handle down for about 20 seconds, but anyway. At least everyone gets to pee there.
posted by phunniemee at 11:51 AM on February 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

Europe-style with walls that go all the way down to the floor

A few examples here:

Design could play a powerful role in the battle for equitable public restrooms, but outdated code poses a serious problem.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:04 PM on February 11, 2017 [7 favorites]

Thought that this was an interesting bit of detail in that article:

Building private, single-occupancy stalls laid out around a common area with a sink is a solution that many architects trying to design equitable gender-neutral bathrooms have landed upon. Matt Nardella, founder of the Chicago-based architecture firm Moss, wrote a blog post about that model, using it for both restaurants and mixed-use buildings. He says that it solves for the problem of privacy and comfort without using up too much of the floor plate (space is often cited as reason for choosing multi-person, "gang"-style bathrooms over single-occupancy units). "In addition, the single-occupancy bathrooms cost less money because you don’t have to make a whole multi-occupancy bathroom out of resistant materials," he says. "Those partitions have to be so durable that regular walls and tiles are actually cheaper."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:07 PM on February 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

I'm a guy so I really don't have as much to complain about but, reading this, it occurred to me that this one of the main reasons I don't see as many shows of any kind as I'd like to. I seem to have an unusually impatient bladder and literally the first thing I think about when considering going to a show is the bathroom situation and whether or not I'm mentally prepared to deal with it.
posted by treepour at 12:07 PM on February 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

ah, you've discovered the real reason I changed my gender to male
posted by AFABulous at 12:12 PM on February 11, 2017 [36 favorites]

Is this code for "theater owners try to cram liquor sales into the crowd before a show and are suddenly surprised when everyone needs to pee 90 minutes later"?

I think that's only a tiny fraction of the problem, since it's really not limited to Broadway. I went to a tech conference last summer that struck me as absolutely shocking that the line at the women's restrooms wasn't bad during breaks, and finally sank in that this was just because there weren't many women present; if it'd been anywhere close to 50/50, the bathroom situation would have been just as awful as this, and that's even at like 11am. Not that alcohol doesn't impact this at venues where it's served, but it's hard to miss that consumption of water, coffee, and soda has also changed significantly in the last 50 years.
posted by Sequence at 12:13 PM on February 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

if it'd been anywhere close to 50/50, the bathroom situation would have been just as awful as this

Heh, I've had the same experience at Rush concerts.
posted by Daily Alice at 12:36 PM on February 11, 2017 [11 favorites]

I always figured that toilet partitions were more about security and ease of cleaning than construction costs. With the partitions mostly off the floor (entirely off the floor for types that are suspended from the ceiling), it's easy to mop the place, there are fewer corners to trap dirt, and it's easy to have the entire floor slope to one drain in the middle of the room. Space is a consideration too, but it's not the only thing, but you could still find a way to work around the other cost issues some other way.

I haven't actually come up against a code enforcement agency telling me I couldn't have a large unisex bathroom, but the part mentioned in the article mandolin conspiracy posted requires a certain number of fixtures per calculated occupant load per gender. I don't know if there's a part that specifically mentions that the fixtures have to be in separate rooms, but I could easily be wrong, or some plan checker could just decide that that's the way it's supposed to be, but I think dorms at Berkeley have had coed bathrooms for over 20 years.
posted by LionIndex at 12:41 PM on February 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Movie theaters were (and are) pretty similar to the Broadway live theaters in the article: not enough toilets for either gender, but there's still more capacity for the guys. Example: I used to work at an old 1914 theater that originally had no bathrooms; those were added in sometime in the 1920s, when they installed two toilets + three urinals for the guys, and two toilets for the women, which is still how it was when I worked there in the 1990s. Another old theater, built in 1936, did have bathrooms from the start, but they consisted of six toilets for the guys + three urinals, while the women had four toilets + a lovely-but-useless 'withdrawing room' (per the original 1936 sign, still on the wall!) that consisted of a couple couches and small tables.

I currently work at a 478-seat theater that has one toilet + two urinals for the guys, and two toilets for the women --- fortunately, we're inside a museum that has several more & much-larger restrooms scattered around the place. Also fortunately, I have my very own private bathroom here: bliss!
posted by easily confused at 12:49 PM on February 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

I blame whoever told us to drink 8 glasses of water every day.
posted by etherist at 12:52 PM on February 11, 2017 [10 favorites]

Oh, and re: required separate bathrooms for males/females: I forget the specifics, but yes there is such a law on the books here in Virginia --- my father used sell real estate, and his small, six-agent company was required to have two separate bathrooms..... they built them in, they got their occupancy permits, then all six agents just used one while the other was used for storage only. But yes, legally they did have to have one toilet for men and another for the women, no matter how few employees worked there.
posted by easily confused at 12:52 PM on February 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Current code requires that however many toilets + urinals you have for the men, you have the same number of toilets for the women. The occupancy calcs for each fixture are just slightly different enough that you can end up with a higher number required by calc for men, but in that case, you do have to add another women's stall.

But that's all fairly recent.
posted by LionIndex at 1:29 PM on February 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

My secret shame: when I went to see Hamilton - with the original cast - I spent a solid chunk of the first act really, really needing to pee. I wound up ducking out during That Would Be Enough so I didn't actually miss anything, but I still feel kinda bad.
posted by Itaxpica at 2:18 PM on February 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

Having e.g. 2 stalls + 3 urinals in the men's room and 5 stalls in the women's room is not actually parity though, due to the much faster turnover of urinals. I think it'd be more like 2+3 = 8. You also need more sinks in the women's room because women actually wash their fucking hands.
posted by AFABulous at 2:22 PM on February 11, 2017 [17 favorites]

The women's bathroom line mutinied when I went to see "Fun Home" a couple years back, with some old ladies leading us all in storming the men's bathroom. Some of the men were all for it because they agreed it was crazy we were waiting so long while they were walking in and out, but others complained (I understand why it was uncomfortable for the guys using the urinals as we all walked in) and the staff eventually kicked us out, but promised the show wouldn't start until we were all done.
posted by retrograde at 2:49 PM on February 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

This is specific to Broadway, but couldn't a lot of this be avoided more cheaply if they moved from one intermission in the middle, to two at the thirds as standard? I'm not sure how you'd overturn tradition like that, but it would reduce the number of people ducking out or not being able to pay attention.
posted by Canageek at 3:00 PM on February 11, 2017 [6 favorites]

Is this code for "theater owners try to cram liquor sales into the crowd before a show and are suddenly surprised when everyone needs to pee 90 minutes later"?

Also for "Everybody and their brother and their sister never goes anywhere from a doctor's appointment to a funeral without a bottle of water or a cup of coffee in their hand and then wonders why they always have to go to the bathroom."
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:37 PM on February 11, 2017 [11 favorites]

an only slightly-related restroom access story...
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:20 PM on February 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

This seems like as good a time as any to make my frequent request:

Guys, if you're in a single-occupancy, gender-neutral washroom, please PLEASE put the seat down after you flush. There's a 75% chance that the person using the bathroom after you needs the seat down. I know that handling a public toilet seat is disgusting, but you put the seat up. You can damn well put it down again.
posted by pxe2000 at 4:44 PM on February 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

I don't think this is specific to Broadway, but to theatres in general. The lines for the women's restroom during intermission at the Community Center Theatre in Sacramento are a nightmare and almost as bad after the show is over (those people that held it to avoid the lines at intermission, or, if you're my mom, you have to pee every two hours no matter how much fluid you've had to drink).

Although apparently, plans are underway to fix the lack of bathrooms.
posted by elsietheeel at 5:48 PM on February 11, 2017

I would totally use a website called something like whencanyougo.com, advising you of when exactly you could run out for five minutes without missing key events during a given movie shown in the theater. I don't know why it is that I can spend over a full two hours outside of a theater not thinking of the bathroom, but inside one, I am incapable of not leaving at least once. It isn't salty popcorn or caffeinated drinks or anything; I don't usually get those. it is a mystery
posted by Countess Elena at 5:59 PM on February 11, 2017 [6 favorites]

Countess Elena - there's runpee.com. Disclaimer: I've never used it.
posted by valeries at 6:13 PM on February 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

People are just noticing this now? When has this not been the case?

Hell, I spent a year in the 90s moonlighting as an usher at an off-Broadway show, and a frequent part of my job consisted of a two-minute-warning bathroom-line check. If there was a line for the ladies' and the coast was clear for the mens', I was told to encourage the women to use the mens' room too just to clear the line faster, and stand guard while they did. (I would heroically throw a fist in the air and declaim, "Come on, let's strike a blow for gender parity!")

This isn't just an issue at Broadway. It is an issue on EARTH. And lines aren't longer becuase of the raw number of toilets - it's because we women more often than not have to get partially undressed just to get the relevant spigot out, so it takes us longer (yes, even in skirts, because of what goes UNDER skirts - i missed the cake-cutting at my brother's wedding because I was in the bathroom wrestling with a pair of Spanx while simultaneously trying not to let the hem of my dress fall into anything).

Although this does remind me of an adage a playwright I knew once said - "the length of a one-act play should always take into consideration the size of the human bladder."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:36 PM on February 11, 2017 [11 favorites]

I once worked for a guy who was a bit of a loon but often had some brilliant insights. He built a nightclub on Austin's 6th Street, sort of a Bourbon Street knockoff. He insisted it have the largest, best appointed and most luxurious women's room in the venue. His logic was that women would prefer his club simply because of the facilities. And if the women were there, you didn't have to worry about the men showing up. It worked like a champ...
posted by jim in austin at 7:34 PM on February 11, 2017 [16 favorites]

...we said fuck it and just took over the mens' room.

You betcha! If it has a door with a lock, great. If not, I recruit several women and volunteer to stand guard for 4-5. One is always bound to reciprocate. I believe in striking a blow for peeing freely whenever there's an empty seat!

"Come on, let's strike a blow for gender parity!"

I will so be using this line in the future.

Signed,

Ms. I. P. Freely
posted by BlueHorse at 7:34 PM on February 11, 2017

When a production of Hamlet opened at the Barbican in London in 2015, I believe one theatre critic's review was titled "To Pee or not to Pee." The theatre at the Barbican is fairly large--over 1000 seats---and the toilets aren't particularly nearby if memory serves. Moreover, this particular production starred Benedict Cumberbatch as Hamlet, the audience was predominately female. Knowing this I jumped out of my seat the second the curtain went down for the intermission-- practically climbing over people--to make sure I got a decent spot in the queue. I was lucky and made it back with time to spare, but the line was 3x as long when I was on my way back to my seat. Not sure if the men's toilets were commandeered but they should've been.
posted by kaybdc at 8:10 PM on February 11, 2017

I've used RunPee and it works a charm.
posted by zebra at 8:20 PM on February 11, 2017

Reminds me of seeing Jethro Tull in Carnegie Hall on acid. At the intermission, and I'm pretty sure there was one, I spent a few hours in a personal hell waiting for the bathroom. It was the Songs From the Wood tour. It's a special kind of strange when you need to pee and are on hallucinogenics. Several times I was sure that I had peed myself. But I didn't. When I finally got to the bathroom there was a stall open. I felt like god had blessed me. Then I had to figure out how to open my button fly jeans. That took several eternities. The actual urination was amazing. Then, poof, I was back in my seat for the second part of the show. Which was amazing.

I miss teleporting toilets.
posted by Splunge at 9:22 PM on February 11, 2017 [7 favorites]

As long as I live, I will never understand why American public toilet habits are so fucking weird.
posted by Automocar at 12:33 AM on February 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

What do they mean about people's eating, drinking and bathroom habits changing? Is that really the case?
posted by Coaticass at 2:15 AM on February 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

couldn't a lot of this be avoided more cheaply if they moved from one intermission in the middle, to two at the thirds as standard?

Well, except that isn't how shows are designed. You can't take a two act show and just decide to split it into three acts. The ebb and flow of how the plot and (if it's a musical) songs are laid out depend pretty specifically on there being an act about 60-75 minutes long that ends with some sort of "cliffhanger moment" that demands being resolved after intermission. (FWIW, most shows are designed with the first act longer than the second act.)

It'd probably be better too eliminate the interval entirely and have plays presented in one continuous act with people being encouraged to find their own pee breaks (and miss a bit of the action onstage) so it isn't a massive horde heading into the lobby at the same time.
posted by hippybear at 6:10 AM on February 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

Nthing that this is not just a problem in theater, this is a problem everywhere. Been to an airport lately? Look at the lines for the women's bathrooms vs the men's (especially just after a long-haul flight has landed).

I somehow doubt that this is solely an eating/drinking/peeing habits have changed thing. People in the 18th and 19th century drank a whole lot more alcohol than we do today. They also had fussier clothing that would take a longer time to hitch up and keep clean. Yes, I know drawers were split but add a crinoline on top of that and several petticoats, and it's bewildering.

Frankly, I think these spaces were simply not designed with women in mind, just like many public buildings/bathrooms today were not designed with women in mind (the number of bathroom stalls I've been in with no receptacle for menstrual pads/tampons -- seriously?) Good on the folks coming up with ways to fix that.
posted by basalganglia at 7:20 AM on February 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

People in the 18th and 19th century drank a whole lot more alcohol than we do today.

Walls and gutters were not too good for theater patrons in the 19th century. I wonder if this was one unspoken reason that the theater was not considered respectable by the classes for whom respectability was one of life's main goals. (It would not have troubled the lower classes, who were used to everything they had to put up with, or the aristocracy, who were free to do anything they cared to.)

I understand it was possible for a woman in pre-1900s dress to arrange her garments very carefully and use a gutter without a moment's worth of indecent exposure. How this worked without the fluid dynamics and surface tension of liquid causing her to soak her stockings, I have no idea.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:41 AM on February 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

I was at a Broadway show* recently where announcements were made on the mezzanine that the only restrooms were in the basement. The last rows of the mezzanine were probably the equivalent of being on the 4th floor.

*ok it was Hamilton and it was freaking awesome
posted by shiny blue object at 8:44 AM on February 12, 2017

They could also lengthen the intermissions. Opera intermissions are already much longer than Broadway shows.
posted by dnash at 9:23 AM on February 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

I understand it was possible for a woman in pre-1900s dress to arrange her garments very carefully and use a gutter without a moment's worth of indecent exposure. How this worked without the fluid dynamics and surface tension of liquid causing her to soak her stockings, I have no idea.

Did you see this post?.... Apparently there was such a thing as a small custom-designed-to-women chamber pot.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:44 AM on February 12, 2017

The Ms. began using the men's room at Yankee stadium while it was still the old stadium.
posted by notreally at 9:46 AM on February 12, 2017

There's another factor we haven't discussed. In days gone by, the idea that the elderly, children, people with chronic medical issues, pregnant women, and others who might need to use the bathroom more frequently and more urgently than the perfectly able-bodied had just as much right to expect to go anywhere and everywhere in public that they felt like, whenever they felt like it, was definitely NOT a universally accepted one.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:21 PM on February 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

As long as I live, I will never understand why American public toilet habits are so fucking weird.

Is there a specifically American aspect you are referring to?
posted by grouse at 12:52 PM on February 12, 2017

Let's not rehash the sit/stand debate here, please.
posted by hippybear at 1:16 PM on February 12, 2017 [1 favorite]

I have totally used a bourdaloue in the corner of a ladies room before, emptied it discreetly in the sink and been just fine. Not at the opera, but at the B57s, etc. Beats missing half of the show.
posted by jfwlucy at 2:39 PM on February 12, 2017

every time I accidentally find out there are women in the world who don't just go in the men's room when the other line's way too long, I don't know what to do with myself or what is happening. what even is this 'taking over' notion, you just go there. men probably don't like it but until unspeakable legislation makes its oppressive way into more places, that is too bad for them. beskirted pictograms on doors aren't my dad, they can't tell me what to do.

I will admit that 90 percent of the time I do this it's at bars when I've had enough to drink that I do not care if anybody gives me a look or thinks ill of me. but if I ever had to be at a big Broadway show I'm sure I'd be drunk there too so it would be nearly as easy.
posted by queenofbithynia at 3:28 PM on February 12, 2017 [5 favorites]

I was at a Broadway show in December that was trying to solve this problem by having an usher inside the bathroom directing people to the next open stall at the exact second the door started to open. It was a spectacularly efficient operation - I've never seen a women's bathroom queue move so fast. You wouldn't think that cutting out the brief moments of hesitation, distraction and decision-making would make such a difference, but it did.
posted by une_heure_pleine at 11:47 PM on February 12, 2017 [3 favorites]

When a production of Hamlet opened at the Barbican in London in 2015, I believe one theatre critic's review was titled "To Pee or not to Pee."

I saw that, and yes, the queue was extraordinary. Going in the gents wouldn't have done you any good, though, as that was rammed, too, just not to the same extent. Unless you like hanging around in the gents with the other occupants glaring at you in the traditional English-middle-class-passive-aggressive way, which is none of my business. As it were.

They could skew the ratio in favour of women's toilets even further if they gave urinals more privacy - enough of us end up just standing there feeling embarrassed because it all shuts down in company and we can't actually piss, no matter how much we need to that it would improve user through-put no end.
posted by Grangousier at 6:56 AM on February 13, 2017