Revenge of the Lunch Lady
February 13, 2017 11:06 AM Subscribe
How an unassuming bureaucrat outsmarted Jamie Oliver and pulled off an honest-to-god miracle in one of America's unhealthiest cities. One West Virginia turns her school lunch program around; plus a brief history of school lunches in America featuring the National Frozen Pizza Institute.
The only part of that that made me sad was decreasing the garlic, because "just add more garlic" is my go-to improvement for nearly everything.
posted by protocoach at 11:51 AM on February 13, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by protocoach at 11:51 AM on February 13, 2017 [27 favorites]
To be fair, school lunch Cincinnati chili is bad even in Cincinnati.
posted by Small Dollar at 11:54 AM on February 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Small Dollar at 11:54 AM on February 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
The only part of that that made me sad was decreasing the garlic, because "just add more garlic" is my go-to improvement for nearly everything.
Yeah, well, kids have notoriously bad taste. Haaaaaaaaaa
posted by sixfootaxolotl at 11:56 AM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, well, kids have notoriously bad taste. Haaaaaaaaaa
posted by sixfootaxolotl at 11:56 AM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's a good article. I'm puzzled by the 'outsmarted' framing though - wouldn't he be happy about a sustainable change for the better?
posted by Sebmojo at 12:09 PM on February 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Sebmojo at 12:09 PM on February 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
That's a good article. I'm puzzled by the 'outsmarted' framing though - wouldn't he be happy about a sustainable change for the better?
Indeed, in fact further down in the article is a brief blurb from another interview with Oliver that he's happy with the changes and that it's ultimately down to the locals to rework and continue the program.
But then, an article titled "Jamie Oliver's plan works as intended and is successful long after he has left." doesn't have the same zing.
posted by sixfootaxolotl at 12:14 PM on February 13, 2017 [29 favorites]
But the thing is that Jamie Oliver swooped in, dinked around ineffectually, and left, whereas the actual person in charge of school lunches had and continues to have a similar agenda and is actually doing the hard work of putting it into practice without flashy TV shows and is actually really darn good at her job.
posted by Zalzidrax at 12:24 PM on February 13, 2017 [100 favorites]
posted by Zalzidrax at 12:24 PM on February 13, 2017 [100 favorites]
It didn't work, though. Students didn't like his food, it didn't conform to nutritional guidelines that schools have to follow (you can, and should argue with how those nutritional guidelines are created, but the schools still have to follow them, even if they're dumb), it cost too much, and the end result was fewer students actually eating school lunch. The goal was a noble one - kids should get good, healthy food. But the execution was terrible, because it didn't take into account the actual situation on the ground and the real people who had to keep living there after Celebrity Chef and His Fantastic Traveling Vanity project moved on. I don't know about "outsmarting", but "actually did the job that Oliver tried and failed to do" is perfectly accurate.
posted by protocoach at 12:26 PM on February 13, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by protocoach at 12:26 PM on February 13, 2017 [35 favorites]
Fuck Republicans for wanting to yet again hobble school lunches. They're kids. No one should ever go hungry, especially kids. Tax me for it. Tax me heavily for it, I don't care, as long as it means kids get to eat who otherwise probably wouldn't. What kind of monster says a kid shouldn't get to eat, regardless of what the circumstances may be?
posted by xedrik at 12:29 PM on February 13, 2017 [71 favorites]
posted by xedrik at 12:29 PM on February 13, 2017 [71 favorites]
I could relate to this:
Canned green beans, though, are disgusting.
posted by clawsoon at 12:31 PM on February 13, 2017 [17 favorites]
Her family, like many others, had a garden where they grew much of what ended up on the kitchen table. And the tastes of those homegrown meals left a mark. She told me that it took years before she could bring herself to eat a canned green bean from the supermarket.We put hundreds of pounds of potatoes into the root cellar each year, and hundreds of bags of vegetables into the freezer. Homegrown vegetables are delicious. Many processed vegetables from the supermarket are okay; not outstanding, but edible.
Canned green beans, though, are disgusting.
posted by clawsoon at 12:31 PM on February 13, 2017 [17 favorites]
Sustainability is not just an environmental word.
posted by Samizdata at 12:34 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Samizdata at 12:34 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's too bad the article set out to create a villain in Jamie Oliver when really, he and the utterly admirable Rhonda McCoy share the same goals.
posted by grounded at 12:47 PM on February 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by grounded at 12:47 PM on February 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
While I really enjoy Jamie Oliver's TV shows and his television persona, and I admire his huge social engagement, I don't really like his cooking. I've eaten at a couple or three of his restaurants and tried recipes from his books and online, and finally realized I just don't like it. I can understand why the children of Huntingdon wouldn't like it, and it could have gone far worse if Rhonda McCoy hadn't been there: now they eat fresh food. If their only impression of unprocessed food had been Oliver's, they would never have tried it again.
I think both he and the River Café where he learnt his trade are so scared of blandness that they never allow anything to taste of itself (in spite of all the hype about fresh produce) - there's just a lot of garlic, chili, herbs, acid all over the place instead of allowing for something gentle and natural as a counterpoint to the sharper tastes. With children who have never had fresh food before, this must be even more unpalatable than it is to me who loves garlicky and spicy food.
posted by mumimor at 12:51 PM on February 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think both he and the River Café where he learnt his trade are so scared of blandness that they never allow anything to taste of itself (in spite of all the hype about fresh produce) - there's just a lot of garlic, chili, herbs, acid all over the place instead of allowing for something gentle and natural as a counterpoint to the sharper tastes. With children who have never had fresh food before, this must be even more unpalatable than it is to me who loves garlicky and spicy food.
posted by mumimor at 12:51 PM on February 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
CEP is the best. My district was one of three that helped pilot it several years ago, when I was on the board, and honestly you don't need studies to tell you how much the stigma of school lunch is reduced -- it's immediately obvious if you have any contact with the schools. Both my kids go to CEP schools. There was a bit of a hurdle getting middle-class parents to a) believe they could have free school lunches and weren't cheated the system by taking them and b) decide to take the free school lunches because of concerns about stigma, class, and nutrition. But holy moly, spend one month at a CEP school and you (middle-class parent) will never want to go back. I don't have to think about lunch at all on weekdays. I don't have to think about loading payment cards or sending money or anything. They just GET SERVED LUNCH. With all their friends and classmates. Of a nutritional level that's pretty good! Not perfect, but probably better and more rounded than they'd get if I were packing brown bags all year because I'm not that creative and it all has to be eaten room temperature after being unrefrigerated so options are limited.
And it saves SO MUCH MONEY. It's ridiculous how much money is saved by just giving kids lunch and not fucking around with payment and all the paperwork related to payment (free, reduced price, full price, etc.). Now one of the lunch ladies just has a counting clicker and she click-counts the number of kids who go through the line while answering questions and handing out drinks.
Many more kids who are "food insecure" (not in poverty but maybe teetering on the edge, probably not getting a nutritious-enough diet) get meals with CEP, and they do better in school because of it. It reduces class distinctions in the school. It gives parents at PTA meetings something to chat about EVEN IF they have nothing else in common -- all the kids eat the same thing, you can definitely talk about your kids and their lunches.
Honestly I think it should be EXPANDED, not reduced, and I will fight any efforts to fuck with it because it is a money-saving, health-improving, stigma-reducing program.
I'm on the same page as McCoy about the school breakfasts, though. They're kinda crap compared to how good school lunch has gotten with CEP and the new food guidelines. But, what are you going to do, it's early and a lot of schools only have "reheat ovens" (food is made off-site -- usually at a high school -- at a full-service kitchen and then finished at the elementary schools that don't have full kitchens in these portable reheat units) and breakfast food is a lot harder.
My current health-improvement wish is that my district would get rid of chocolate milk (because of the extra sugar in it), but that's a very unpopular idea and we did manage to get the soda machines turned off during school hours, so, baby steps. I suppose there's some small number of kids who wouldn't drink milk at all if chocolate milk wasn't available and they'd all get rickets, but I feel like that's not that big a constituency and probably they can learn to like white milk.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:56 PM on February 13, 2017 [85 favorites]
And it saves SO MUCH MONEY. It's ridiculous how much money is saved by just giving kids lunch and not fucking around with payment and all the paperwork related to payment (free, reduced price, full price, etc.). Now one of the lunch ladies just has a counting clicker and she click-counts the number of kids who go through the line while answering questions and handing out drinks.
Many more kids who are "food insecure" (not in poverty but maybe teetering on the edge, probably not getting a nutritious-enough diet) get meals with CEP, and they do better in school because of it. It reduces class distinctions in the school. It gives parents at PTA meetings something to chat about EVEN IF they have nothing else in common -- all the kids eat the same thing, you can definitely talk about your kids and their lunches.
Honestly I think it should be EXPANDED, not reduced, and I will fight any efforts to fuck with it because it is a money-saving, health-improving, stigma-reducing program.
I'm on the same page as McCoy about the school breakfasts, though. They're kinda crap compared to how good school lunch has gotten with CEP and the new food guidelines. But, what are you going to do, it's early and a lot of schools only have "reheat ovens" (food is made off-site -- usually at a high school -- at a full-service kitchen and then finished at the elementary schools that don't have full kitchens in these portable reheat units) and breakfast food is a lot harder.
My current health-improvement wish is that my district would get rid of chocolate milk (because of the extra sugar in it), but that's a very unpopular idea and we did manage to get the soda machines turned off during school hours, so, baby steps. I suppose there's some small number of kids who wouldn't drink milk at all if chocolate milk wasn't available and they'd all get rickets, but I feel like that's not that big a constituency and probably they can learn to like white milk.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:56 PM on February 13, 2017 [85 favorites]
Oh, this is the McElroy's home town.
They said recently about how the only other time Huntingdon was on TV it didn't come out well.
This is classic Jamie Oliver though, all making a big show over the thing but not really thinking it through.
We joke (I think it's a joke) about Oliver's approach to cheap food; "Now Bang on a bit of saffron, it's cheap because you only need a little bit.
Basically i loved turkey twizzlers and I will never forgive him.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 12:58 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
They said recently about how the only other time Huntingdon was on TV it didn't come out well.
This is classic Jamie Oliver though, all making a big show over the thing but not really thinking it through.
We joke (I think it's a joke) about Oliver's approach to cheap food; "Now Bang on a bit of saffron, it's cheap because you only need a little bit.
Basically i loved turkey twizzlers and I will never forgive him.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 12:58 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
But then, an article titled "Jamie Oliver's plan works as intended and is successful long after he has left." doesn't have the same zing.
Um.
posted by indubitable at 12:59 PM on February 13, 2017 [32 favorites]
Um.
Long before Oliver had ever heard of Huntington, McCoy had begun to improve the meals in Cabell County. Notwithstanding what “Food Revolution” viewers saw on TV, McCoy’s cafeterias were downright enlightened by the dismal standards of America’s school-lunch program. In 2008, the West Virginia Board of Education had imposed tough new rules that required meals to include fresh fruits and vegetables, lean meats, whole grains, low-fat milk and water. McCoy, a registered dietician with 25 years of experience, pushed her district even further. One of the first things she did was remove the saltshakers from cafeteria tables—a move that prompted students to steal salt packets from fast-food restaurants and create a black market for them at lunch. At a time when 94 percent of U.S. schools were failing to meet federal guidelines, Cabell County hit, and often exceeded, every one.Jamie Oliver had basically nothing to do with this, it predated his show. The recipes he introduced had to be reworked or discarded because they totally disregarded local tastes and were financially unsustainable. The sum total of his contribution was to condescend to a bunch of poor people before jetting off for his next reality TV project.
This was a surprise to Oliver’s advance production team, which assumed that the schools in America’s most unhealthy city would serve junk. “That,” Jedd Flowers said, “is when the show became about ‘fresh.’”
posted by indubitable at 12:59 PM on February 13, 2017 [32 favorites]
What McCoy had done in Huntington was exactly the kind of thing Republicans claim to celebrate. She wasn’t a Washington bureaucrat telling people to do it her way, or no way at all; she was a well-intentioned local who had figured out what made sense for her community and acted on it. Now, as it began to grow dark outside, she confronted the fact that her last six years of work might be undone. “Any part of it could change overnight,” McCoy told me. She was incredulous in a way I'd never seen her. “A child can come to school all day and not eat," she continued. "Little ones. First-graders.” She lowered her voice to a whisper. “How do you tell a child they can’t eat?” A few moments later, she shook my hand and said goodbye. Then she returned to her office and got back to work.
All of this because of the fictional horror that someone who doesn't qualify for assistance might be getting it. That's the Christian charity of the moral majority. That's the conservative reference for smart local government and the rights of individual states and districts. That's the high-handed respect for the sanctity of life. Convenient disguises, from top to bottom.
posted by codacorolla at 1:00 PM on February 13, 2017 [42 favorites]
All of this because of the fictional horror that someone who doesn't qualify for assistance might be getting it. That's the Christian charity of the moral majority. That's the conservative reference for smart local government and the rights of individual states and districts. That's the high-handed respect for the sanctity of life. Convenient disguises, from top to bottom.
posted by codacorolla at 1:00 PM on February 13, 2017 [42 favorites]
grounded: I agree, Jamie Oliver and Rhonda McCoy do share the same goals, but she understood in a way that he didn't (or wasn't able to, given the requirements of reality TV) that you have to engage local people and their own tastes and efforts rather than imposing something external on them, no matter how healthy it might be.
When in reality, just as it states in the article, there are so damn many influences that converge to make it really difficult to implement sustainable programs. There's a weird idea that change can and will happen quickly and when it doesn't, it must be the fault of the program, or the people who are running it, or the participants.
And that last paragraph about the fact that all McCoy has done could be swept away in a stroke of the government, it just is so depressing.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 1:06 PM on February 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
McCoy was a proponent of fresh food. But she recognized that kids had to like what they were eating—and that she had to be able to pay for it. She started by assembling a group of cooks to rework Oliver’s recipes so they reflected local tastes. A friendly competition developed over who could come up with the best adaptation. The snap peas with mint, a quintessentially English combination, lost the mint; the garlicky greens became a lot less garlicky; the cinnamon in the chili was eighty-sixed. That McCoy let the cooks decide what tasted good made them feel important and helped win them over to the new, more labor-intensive way of doing things.It's a really good article, well worth reading in its entirety. While it's about the US lunch program in particular, I see a lot of things in there that echo the difficulties we struggle with in a non-US context, trying to implement or improve health and education in small rural, often First Nations, communities in Canada. There are far too many programs started and abandoned by well meaning outsiders from the federal or provincial government, that do not take local knowledge and insight into account and are too much about an external body setting the rules and pinching pennies in a way that sets everyone up for failure. And then that allows the rest of the country to tsk tsk and shake their heads and say, "Well, we tried. Don't those people want their kids to be educated? Don't they care that they're malnourished? Or on drugs?"
When in reality, just as it states in the article, there are so damn many influences that converge to make it really difficult to implement sustainable programs. There's a weird idea that change can and will happen quickly and when it doesn't, it must be the fault of the program, or the people who are running it, or the participants.
And that last paragraph about the fact that all McCoy has done could be swept away in a stroke of the government, it just is so depressing.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 1:06 PM on February 13, 2017 [18 favorites]
Fuck Republicans for wanting to yet again hobble school lunches.
It's not just Republicans. Or rather, Republicans are happy to let children starve but liberals have their own set of issues with regard to food for the less fortunate:
It's heartening that McCoy understood that these kids need food to live but aren't machines that just need nutrient input, they also deserve to enjoy what they're eating.
posted by Sangermaine at 1:07 PM on February 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
It's not just Republicans. Or rather, Republicans are happy to let children starve but liberals have their own set of issues with regard to food for the less fortunate:
But she recognized that kids had to like what they were eatingI recall from that MeFi discussion of a New York Times review of a low-cost restaurant aimed at the poor a little while back a number of comments that either implied or directly stated that taste wasn't really a concern, or even may be a negative thing, as long as the people are getting nutrition.
It's heartening that McCoy understood that these kids need food to live but aren't machines that just need nutrient input, they also deserve to enjoy what they're eating.
posted by Sangermaine at 1:07 PM on February 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
oh my god, that quote, that quote from paul motherfucking ryan, a man who has never known a single moment of want or hunger in his entire worthless life, about "full bellies but empty souls" oh my god that vile piece of shit man
that quote will be the entirety of my defense during my trial in the hague for the atrocities im gonna commit in like 2 minutes
posted by poffin boffin at 1:25 PM on February 13, 2017 [83 favorites]
that quote will be the entirety of my defense during my trial in the hague for the atrocities im gonna commit in like 2 minutes
posted by poffin boffin at 1:25 PM on February 13, 2017 [83 favorites]
I recall from that MeFi discussion of a New York Times review of a low-cost restaurant aimed at the poor a little while back a number of comments that either implied or directly stated that taste wasn't really a concern, or even may be a negative thing, as long as the people are getting nutrition.
If you're referring to the FPP about Locol that's really not a reasonable summary of people's comments.
posted by Lexica at 1:25 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
If you're referring to the FPP about Locol that's really not a reasonable summary of people's comments.
posted by Lexica at 1:25 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
oh my god, that quote, that quote from paul motherfucking ryan, a man who has never known a single moment of want or hunger in his entire worthless life, about "full bellies but empty souls" oh my god that vile piece of shit man
EXCEPT FOR THE TIME HIS FATHER DIED WHEN HE WAS A TEEN AND HE WAS ABLE TO SAVE HIS SOCIAL SECURITY SURVIVORS BENEFIT TO PAY FOR COLLEGE AND THEN WENT ON TO BE A RIGHTWING NUTJOB POLITICIAN BENT ON SHREDDING THE SAFETY NET
I'll never stop being mad about that.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:31 PM on February 13, 2017 [35 favorites]
EXCEPT FOR THE TIME HIS FATHER DIED WHEN HE WAS A TEEN AND HE WAS ABLE TO SAVE HIS SOCIAL SECURITY SURVIVORS BENEFIT TO PAY FOR COLLEGE AND THEN WENT ON TO BE A RIGHTWING NUTJOB POLITICIAN BENT ON SHREDDING THE SAFETY NET
I'll never stop being mad about that.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:31 PM on February 13, 2017 [35 favorites]
what the fuck is the deal with white guys who get free stuff and from that experience decide that people who are not white guys should definitely not be able to get that stuff too
can we send them for remedial human decency classes
posted by poffin boffin at 1:34 PM on February 13, 2017 [43 favorites]
can we send them for remedial human decency classes
posted by poffin boffin at 1:34 PM on February 13, 2017 [43 favorites]
If you're referring to the FPP about Locol that's really not a reasonable summary of people's comments.
It really is. For example:
A lot of restaurants use butter, salt and deep-frying to make the food taste good.
If they are really trying to provide healthy food, and it tastes a bit bland, I don't know if that's a bad thing.
If he's flying across the country and slamming the taste of the food, he could at least comment on the nutritional aspect.
That's not the only one, just one of the more direct ones. There seems to be a big focus on nutrition and not much on flavor or enjoyment, which is something I see often in well-meaning discussions of feeding those who need food assistance.
Oliver is another example. He clearly really wants to help, and does help, but he doesn't seem to consider whether the people he's helping like what he's making. That can be ignored or given a backseat as long as it provides nutrition. Which is, of course, a good and necessary thing too, but people want food they actually like to eat.
posted by Sangermaine at 1:38 PM on February 13, 2017
It really is. For example:
A lot of restaurants use butter, salt and deep-frying to make the food taste good.
If they are really trying to provide healthy food, and it tastes a bit bland, I don't know if that's a bad thing.
If he's flying across the country and slamming the taste of the food, he could at least comment on the nutritional aspect.
That's not the only one, just one of the more direct ones. There seems to be a big focus on nutrition and not much on flavor or enjoyment, which is something I see often in well-meaning discussions of feeding those who need food assistance.
Oliver is another example. He clearly really wants to help, and does help, but he doesn't seem to consider whether the people he's helping like what he's making. That can be ignored or given a backseat as long as it provides nutrition. Which is, of course, a good and necessary thing too, but people want food they actually like to eat.
posted by Sangermaine at 1:38 PM on February 13, 2017
can we send them for remedial human decency classes
So kindergarten, basically.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:45 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
So kindergarten, basically.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:45 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
tivalasvegas: "can we send them for remedial human decency classes
So kindergarten, basically."
I dunno. I could be a bit of a handful in kindergarten.
posted by Samizdata at 1:53 PM on February 13, 2017
So kindergarten, basically."
I dunno. I could be a bit of a handful in kindergarten.
posted by Samizdata at 1:53 PM on February 13, 2017
And it saves SO MUCH MONEY. It's ridiculous how much money is saved by just giving kids lunch and not fucking around with payment and all the paperwork related to payment (free, reduced price, full price, etc.).
You should be witness #1 when CEP comes up for hearings in Congress. Seriously
posted by flug at 1:56 PM on February 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
You should be witness #1 when CEP comes up for hearings in Congress. Seriously
posted by flug at 1:56 PM on February 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oliver is another example. He clearly really wants to help, and does help, but he doesn't seem to consider whether the people he's helping like what he's making. That can be ignored or given a backseat as long as it provides nutrition. Which is, of course, a good and necessary thing too, but people want food they actually like to eat.
I think he likes to challenge people to try and expand their palates a bit. Its not like peas with mint is a million miles from peas.
posted by biffa at 2:02 PM on February 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think he likes to challenge people to try and expand their palates a bit. Its not like peas with mint is a million miles from peas.
posted by biffa at 2:02 PM on February 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Its not like peas with mint is a million miles from peas.
"Ok Google how far is Peas with Mint from Peas."
"Getting directions to Peas with Mint. Peas with Mint is one million miles from Peas. At 65 Miles per hour you should reach your destination in one year, two hundred seventy seven days, thirty six minutes and 33 seconds. You are on the fastest route."
posted by Nanukthedog at 2:23 PM on February 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
"Ok Google how far is Peas with Mint from Peas."
"Getting directions to Peas with Mint. Peas with Mint is one million miles from Peas. At 65 Miles per hour you should reach your destination in one year, two hundred seventy seven days, thirty six minutes and 33 seconds. You are on the fastest route."
posted by Nanukthedog at 2:23 PM on February 13, 2017 [19 favorites]
This is fascinating. Some of you might be interested to see the school food standards for England, which were revised in 2015 to make them easier for school cooks to work with. Also available in a handy 'tea towel' format [pdf].
The old standards were complicated and based on nutritional content. Cooks needed to calculate exact proportions, often forcing them to use a computer to work out the content of the full menu. The new standards took a much simpler, food-based approach, were welcomed by school catering staff and were just as effective in getting kids to eat healthy and nutritious food.
The Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition government (2010-2015) also introduced, at the behest of the Lib Dems, "universal infant free school meals". UIFSM gives all pupils in reception, year 1 and year 2 (ages 5-7) access to free school lunches, regardless of income. Although it costs around £1bn per year, it doesn't go as far as the School Food Plan authors wanted to - providing free school meals to all primary school pupils ie up to age 11. It's also fairly controversial to some as it is subsidising families who could otherwise afford to pay for their own children's food in an era of tightened government budgets.
posted by knapah at 2:27 PM on February 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
The old standards were complicated and based on nutritional content. Cooks needed to calculate exact proportions, often forcing them to use a computer to work out the content of the full menu. The new standards took a much simpler, food-based approach, were welcomed by school catering staff and were just as effective in getting kids to eat healthy and nutritious food.
The Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition government (2010-2015) also introduced, at the behest of the Lib Dems, "universal infant free school meals". UIFSM gives all pupils in reception, year 1 and year 2 (ages 5-7) access to free school lunches, regardless of income. Although it costs around £1bn per year, it doesn't go as far as the School Food Plan authors wanted to - providing free school meals to all primary school pupils ie up to age 11. It's also fairly controversial to some as it is subsidising families who could otherwise afford to pay for their own children's food in an era of tightened government budgets.
posted by knapah at 2:27 PM on February 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Canned green beans, though, are disgusting.
I still remember the first time I tasted store-bought applesauce. Swear to God, I did not even know what that stuff was.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:01 PM on February 13, 2017
I still remember the first time I tasted store-bought applesauce. Swear to God, I did not even know what that stuff was.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 3:01 PM on February 13, 2017
I should also say that the problem is by no means solved in England. Still plenty of work to do and I feel that some of the same solutions in the original article here would work well over here.
posted by knapah at 3:03 PM on February 13, 2017
posted by knapah at 3:03 PM on February 13, 2017
I think he likes to challenge people to try and expand their palates a bit.
I see someone's never been to Jamie's Italian. Makes Ask look like a Tuscan trattoria where each ingredient was made in the village by the same family who's always made that thing.
posted by ambrosen at 3:38 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I see someone's never been to Jamie's Italian. Makes Ask look like a Tuscan trattoria where each ingredient was made in the village by the same family who's always made that thing.
posted by ambrosen at 3:38 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
"Some of you might be interested to see the school food standards for England, which were revised in 2015 to make them easier for school cooks to work with."
That is really interesting! Fascinating to see how they're the same and different to the US's. I'm poking through and pondering which bits would be better or worse than the US's implementation (school lunches must use a LOT of breading in the UK!).
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:52 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
That is really interesting! Fascinating to see how they're the same and different to the US's. I'm poking through and pondering which bits would be better or worse than the US's implementation (school lunches must use a LOT of breading in the UK!).
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:52 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Fuck Republicans for wanting to yet again hobble school lunches. They're kids. No one should ever go hungry, especially kids.
posted by xedrik at 12:29 PM on February 13
posted by xedrik at 12:29 PM on February 13
McCoy – “A child can come to school all day and not eat," she continued. "Little ones. First-graders.” She lowered her voice to a whisper. “How do you tell a child they can’t eat?”posted by unliteral at 4:23 PM on February 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
"can we send them for remedial human decency classes"
Sorry, those classes have been eliminated due to budget cuts.
posted by bawanaal at 4:55 PM on February 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sorry, those classes have been eliminated due to budget cuts.
posted by bawanaal at 4:55 PM on February 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
“How do you tell a child they can’t eat?”
if the repubs had their way it would be loudly and publicly with as much humiliation as possible because if you can damage their sense of self worth early enough you can continue abusing them for the rest of their lives for your own profit.
posted by poffin boffin at 5:00 PM on February 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
if the repubs had their way it would be loudly and publicly with as much humiliation as possible because if you can damage their sense of self worth early enough you can continue abusing them for the rest of their lives for your own profit.
posted by poffin boffin at 5:00 PM on February 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Great piece, thanks.
I grew up right in the middle of this. In my not-particularly-wealthy rural corner of Arizona, the 'salad bar' every day was a nacreous, glistening pile of ground beef, day-glo orange cheese, a dollop of sour cream, and a scoop of watery salsa. Day, after day, after Reaganite day.
Thank goodness the kids are safer now!
posted by mrdaneri at 5:15 PM on February 13, 2017
I grew up right in the middle of this. In my not-particularly-wealthy rural corner of Arizona, the 'salad bar' every day was a nacreous, glistening pile of ground beef, day-glo orange cheese, a dollop of sour cream, and a scoop of watery salsa. Day, after day, after Reaganite day.
Thank goodness the kids are safer now!
posted by mrdaneri at 5:15 PM on February 13, 2017
But the thing is that Jamie Oliver swooped in, dinked around ineffectually, and left, whereas the actual person in charge of school lunches had and continues to have a similar agenda and is actually doing the hard work of putting it into practice without flashy TV shows and is actually really darn good at her job.
Just noting the pronoun here kind of made my day. Sensible, diligent female "pencil-pushers" FTW.
posted by tully_monster at 5:48 PM on February 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Just noting the pronoun here kind of made my day. Sensible, diligent female "pencil-pushers" FTW.
posted by tully_monster at 5:48 PM on February 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Making this just about food, or cooking, undermines TFA and it's points about how McCoy works the system. Not just CEP but grants and other funding sources and it only works because that finangling is accompanied by a deep understanding of both the local environment, the industry, and the people.
This is one of the many, MANY, reasons I get shirty about 'transferable skills' and managers who just manage. If you only knew the bureaucratic side, you wouldn't be able to understand very specifically how certain tools and practices work in a kitchen (without major tutoring from your underpaid underlings, practicing a whole lot of 'don't get too pissy at the idiot managing us for major dollars who can't even cook').
posted by geek anachronism at 5:52 PM on February 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
This is one of the many, MANY, reasons I get shirty about 'transferable skills' and managers who just manage. If you only knew the bureaucratic side, you wouldn't be able to understand very specifically how certain tools and practices work in a kitchen (without major tutoring from your underpaid underlings, practicing a whole lot of 'don't get too pissy at the idiot managing us for major dollars who can't even cook').
posted by geek anachronism at 5:52 PM on February 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
Wonderful article. That woman is the very essence of the 'real' in McCoy.
posted by Dashy at 6:07 PM on February 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 6:07 PM on February 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
oh my god, that quote, that quote from paul motherfucking ryan, a man who has never known a single moment of want or hunger in his entire worthless life, about "full bellies but empty souls" oh my god that vile piece of shit man
I thought that quote sounded weird the way it was in the article:
With friends like these, who needs Hitler?
posted by amanda at 6:53 PM on February 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
I thought that quote sounded weird the way it was in the article:
In 2014, now-House Speaker Paul Ryan said that public assistance, including school lunch, offered a “full stomach and an empty soul” because it made kids reliant on government handouts.And so I went looking and came across this (forgive me) Business Insider article which is mostly, you know, Business Insider-ey: "Wildly misleading 2014 Time story resurfaces as people try to prove Paul Ryan doesn’t care about poor people" which states that the context of the quote was in a speech to a PAC:
"But I don’t think the problem is too many people are working — I think the problem is not enough people can find work. And if people leave the workforce, our economy will shrink—there will be less opportunity, not more. So the Left is making a big mistake here. What they’re offering people is a full stomach—and an empty soul. The American people want more than that.So, I'm like, WTF, Eloise Anderson? I mean, let's take a whole series of issues and just boil them down to a soundbite that reduces a child's need for lunch to be about who loves them or not. Holy crap! But, it turns out, she kind of made it up. Or at least so says Mediaite in "Paul Ryan’s ‘Free Lunch’ CPAC Story Never Happened."
"This reminds me of a story I heard from Eloise Anderson. She serves in the cabinet of my friend Governor Scott Walker. She once met a young boy from a poor family. And every day at school, he would get a free lunch from a government program. But he told Eloise he didn't want a free lunch. He wanted his own lunch—one in a brown-paper bag just like the other kids'. He wanted one, he said, because he knew a kid with a brown-paper bag had someone who cared for him."
While Ryan recounted the story as told to him by Eloise Anderson, Secretary of the Wisconsin Department of Children and Families, upon investigation Kessler discovered she had lifted it from the 2011 book An Invisible Thread by Laura Schroff, who has worked with a program called No Kid Hungry that is in favor of federal programs that help kids eat for free. Anderson took the story out of context, changing facts to make it fit a narrative that says the government should not be providing school lunches.Secretary of the Wisconsin Department of Children and Families.
With friends like these, who needs Hitler?
posted by amanda at 6:53 PM on February 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
I mean, why not start with full bellies? Can't we have full bellies and work on their souls? Why can't kids lunches just be a thing that is instead of a debate that makes everyone look horrible?
posted by amanda at 6:58 PM on February 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by amanda at 6:58 PM on February 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
It's almost like Ryan and Andersen (and, and ...) never heard of, let alone needed to consider, Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
posted by Dashy at 7:04 PM on February 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 7:04 PM on February 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
The evening arrived; the boys took their places. The master, in his cook's uniform, stationed himself at the copper; his pauper assistants ranged themselves behind him; the gruel was served out; and a long grace was said over the short commons. The gruel disappeared; the boys whispered each other, and winked at Oliver; while his next neighbors nudged him. Child as he was, he was desperate with hunger, and reckless with misery. He rose from the table; and advancing to the master, basin and spoon in hand, said: somewhat alarmed at his own temerity:
'Please, sir, I want some more.'
The master was a fat, healthy man; but he turned very pale. He gazed in stupefied astonishment on the small rebel for some seconds, and then clung for support to the copper. The assistants were paralysed with wonder; the boys with fear.
'What!' said the master at length, in a faint voice.
'Please, sir,' replied Oliver, 'I want some more.'
The master aimed a blow at Oliver's head with the ladle; pinioned him in his arm; and shrieked aloud for the beadle.
The board were sitting in solemn conclave, when Mr. Bumble rushed into the room in great excitement, and addressing the gentleman in the high chair, said,
'Mr. Limbkins, I beg your pardon, sir! Oliver Twist has asked for more!'
There was a general start. Horror was depicted on every countenance.
'For more!' said Mr. Limbkins. 'Compose yourself, Bumble, and answer me distinctly. Do I understand that he asked for more, after he had eaten the supper allotted by the dietary?'
'He did, sir,' replied Bumble.
'That boy will be hung,' said the gentleman in the white waistcoat. 'I know that boy will be hung.'
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:41 PM on February 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
'Please, sir, I want some more.'
The master was a fat, healthy man; but he turned very pale. He gazed in stupefied astonishment on the small rebel for some seconds, and then clung for support to the copper. The assistants were paralysed with wonder; the boys with fear.
'What!' said the master at length, in a faint voice.
'Please, sir,' replied Oliver, 'I want some more.'
The master aimed a blow at Oliver's head with the ladle; pinioned him in his arm; and shrieked aloud for the beadle.
The board were sitting in solemn conclave, when Mr. Bumble rushed into the room in great excitement, and addressing the gentleman in the high chair, said,
'Mr. Limbkins, I beg your pardon, sir! Oliver Twist has asked for more!'
There was a general start. Horror was depicted on every countenance.
'For more!' said Mr. Limbkins. 'Compose yourself, Bumble, and answer me distinctly. Do I understand that he asked for more, after he had eaten the supper allotted by the dietary?'
'He did, sir,' replied Bumble.
'That boy will be hung,' said the gentleman in the white waistcoat. 'I know that boy will be hung.'
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:41 PM on February 13, 2017 [6 favorites]
"This reminds me of a story I heard from Eloise Anderson. She serves in the cabinet of my friend Governor Scott Walker. She once met a young boy from a poor family. And every day at school, he would get a free lunch from a government program. But he told Eloise he didn't want a free lunch. He wanted his own lunch—one in a brown-paper bag just like the other kids'. He wanted one, he said, because he knew a kid with a brown-paper bag had someone who cared for him."
So while let me be clear that (assuming this story is not bullshit) I would pack the shit out of that kid's lunches every day if that's what he needed to feel loved, and I have done dumber things in the name of parenting -- this is exactly what the CEP avoids. Almost every kid at my kids' schools get the school lunch because it is free regardless of their family income, and therefore there is no stigma attached to getting school lunch instead of having an at-home mom who packs them for you! The kids who bring them from home mostly have complex dietary needs that can't be met by the school lunch program (which meets many needs! My kids are both in peanut-free schools and both kids' schools offer celiac diets. But can't meet all of them), or really overprotective parents.
I've heard this story a bunch of times since I've been involved in education advocacy and it makes me so angry. If a brown bag lunch is what an individual child needs, fine!, but it's very clear that what MANY CHILDREN need is a hot lunch available at school because otherwise they don't eat. And your stupid anecdote about one kid who wants packed lunches (fine!) does not override the millions of children who need food provided at school or else they go hungry.
I mean, fucking Eloise Anderson and fucking Paul Ryan have clearly never spent the evening of a Sunday night snowstorm agonizing over whether to close schools on Monday, because if you close schools, hundreds of students won't eat the next day. Do you want buses (and teachers) on the road in dangerous conditions, or do you want hungry children with no access to food? Pick your fucking poison, Paul Ryan.
A Tuesday closure is less-bad because at least the kids ate on Monday. Whereas a Monday closure, you can't be sure those kids have eaten since Friday. WELCOME TO THE REALITY OF SCHOOL LUNCHES AND CHILDHOOD POVERTY IN AMERICA, FUCKHEADS.
I wish I knew stronger obscenities than fuckhead, as this moment would call for them.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:43 PM on February 13, 2017 [61 favorites]
So while let me be clear that (assuming this story is not bullshit) I would pack the shit out of that kid's lunches every day if that's what he needed to feel loved, and I have done dumber things in the name of parenting -- this is exactly what the CEP avoids. Almost every kid at my kids' schools get the school lunch because it is free regardless of their family income, and therefore there is no stigma attached to getting school lunch instead of having an at-home mom who packs them for you! The kids who bring them from home mostly have complex dietary needs that can't be met by the school lunch program (which meets many needs! My kids are both in peanut-free schools and both kids' schools offer celiac diets. But can't meet all of them), or really overprotective parents.
I've heard this story a bunch of times since I've been involved in education advocacy and it makes me so angry. If a brown bag lunch is what an individual child needs, fine!, but it's very clear that what MANY CHILDREN need is a hot lunch available at school because otherwise they don't eat. And your stupid anecdote about one kid who wants packed lunches (fine!) does not override the millions of children who need food provided at school or else they go hungry.
I mean, fucking Eloise Anderson and fucking Paul Ryan have clearly never spent the evening of a Sunday night snowstorm agonizing over whether to close schools on Monday, because if you close schools, hundreds of students won't eat the next day. Do you want buses (and teachers) on the road in dangerous conditions, or do you want hungry children with no access to food? Pick your fucking poison, Paul Ryan.
A Tuesday closure is less-bad because at least the kids ate on Monday. Whereas a Monday closure, you can't be sure those kids have eaten since Friday. WELCOME TO THE REALITY OF SCHOOL LUNCHES AND CHILDHOOD POVERTY IN AMERICA, FUCKHEADS.
I wish I knew stronger obscenities than fuckhead, as this moment would call for them.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:43 PM on February 13, 2017 [61 favorites]
It still shocks me to hear about schools that don't have the equipment to prepare food on site. My elementary school had a full commercial kitchen. Yes, they served a lot of square pizza, but it was cooked on site by the 4 or 5 cooks who worked from 6-1 every school day to make the stuff for us, whether it was pizza or huge pots of macaroni and cheese (with the cheese coming from giant bins of government surplus powdered cheese), the green jello, chili, or the only vegetable beef soup I've ever actually liked.
When I started in the mid 80s, it was still only $1 for a full price lunch, and if you forgot your $1 you just had to stop by the office and they'd lend you the dollar from petty cash on the promise you'd pay them back in a week. By third or fourth grade it had gone up to $2 and they served breakfast also, but my family always made sure I had something to eat even when money was tight and it meant they were late on the mortgage or the car payment or they had to ask for help from other people to have food in the cabinets.
Thinking back I can't imagine how embarrassing that must have been during the lean years. We had a big house that they couldn't have sold at the time. By the time they died several years later and after the housing market had improved dramatically we still only cleared $15,000 after paying off the mortgage. Luckily, my sister was able to make that go a decently long way for the few more years it took for her to finish getting her college degree after taking a year off to move back home and keep me out of trouble, mostly thanks to being able to live in my great aunt's house for free.
Like Paul Ryan, SSDI and later SSI (not that that the $550 a month I got paid for the full cost of my existence) were why I had a roof over my head and could afford to eat until I turned 18. I can't begin to grasp how he begrudges people what little help we provide, much less the benefits they or their parents spent years earning. That it allowed my sister to get her degree rather than have to drop out to work full time rather than scraping by with part time work to make up the difference has more than paid back the entire cost given what she's been making for the past 20 years thanks to that degree.
posted by wierdo at 9:09 PM on February 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
When I started in the mid 80s, it was still only $1 for a full price lunch, and if you forgot your $1 you just had to stop by the office and they'd lend you the dollar from petty cash on the promise you'd pay them back in a week. By third or fourth grade it had gone up to $2 and they served breakfast also, but my family always made sure I had something to eat even when money was tight and it meant they were late on the mortgage or the car payment or they had to ask for help from other people to have food in the cabinets.
Thinking back I can't imagine how embarrassing that must have been during the lean years. We had a big house that they couldn't have sold at the time. By the time they died several years later and after the housing market had improved dramatically we still only cleared $15,000 after paying off the mortgage. Luckily, my sister was able to make that go a decently long way for the few more years it took for her to finish getting her college degree after taking a year off to move back home and keep me out of trouble, mostly thanks to being able to live in my great aunt's house for free.
Like Paul Ryan, SSDI and later SSI (not that that the $550 a month I got paid for the full cost of my existence) were why I had a roof over my head and could afford to eat until I turned 18. I can't begin to grasp how he begrudges people what little help we provide, much less the benefits they or their parents spent years earning. That it allowed my sister to get her degree rather than have to drop out to work full time rather than scraping by with part time work to make up the difference has more than paid back the entire cost given what she's been making for the past 20 years thanks to that degree.
posted by wierdo at 9:09 PM on February 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
Almost every kid at my kids' schools get the school lunch because it is free regardless of their family income, and therefore there is no stigma attached to getting school lunch instead of having an at-home mom who packs them for you!
I'm curious if this is the trend in all schools that offer a program like this.
When I was a kid (many years ago), school lunch was universally reviled and definitely to be avoided.
Much preferred was the lunchbox with PB&J, Twinkie and thermos of Hi-C.
The school nearest to me has free breakfast/lunch.
I will have to ask a parent there what the percentages are.
(I just looked at the menu, the breakfast actually looks pretty decent.
A far cry from the single-serving box of apple jacks and glass of OJ they had during my school years)
posted by madajb at 9:44 PM on February 13, 2017
I'm curious if this is the trend in all schools that offer a program like this.
When I was a kid (many years ago), school lunch was universally reviled and definitely to be avoided.
Much preferred was the lunchbox with PB&J, Twinkie and thermos of Hi-C.
The school nearest to me has free breakfast/lunch.
I will have to ask a parent there what the percentages are.
(I just looked at the menu, the breakfast actually looks pretty decent.
A far cry from the single-serving box of apple jacks and glass of OJ they had during my school years)
posted by madajb at 9:44 PM on February 13, 2017
It's a tragedy of America that patriotism makes Americans love and defend whatever they've got, however manifestly terrible, if foreigners have got something different. Suck up your corn syrup and throw that 'quintessentially English' mint into Boston harbour!
posted by Segundus at 11:27 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Segundus at 11:27 PM on February 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
When I was in school in the 70s-80s, hot lunch was the shit. I have a thing where Subway restaurants smell like "school pizza" to me as I walk by, but damned if the school pizza line wasn't always too long. Of course it's crap. Kids love crap. However, they are also lazy, so if the school says "today we have X" and the cafeteria doesn't resemble a Little League snack bar anymore, X is probably pretty OK regardless, not to mention the social aspects.
posted by rhizome at 11:35 PM on February 13, 2017
posted by rhizome at 11:35 PM on February 13, 2017
oh my god, that quote, that quote from paul motherfucking ryan, a man who has never known a single moment of want or hunger in his entire worthless life, about "full bellies but empty souls" oh my god that vile piece of shit man
that quote will be the entirety of my defense during my trial in the hague for the atrocities im gonna commit in like 2 minutes
posted by poffin boffin
It seems that he did not in fact say that.
posted by laptolain at 2:46 AM on February 14, 2017
that quote will be the entirety of my defense during my trial in the hague for the atrocities im gonna commit in like 2 minutes
posted by poffin boffin
It seems that he did not in fact say that.
posted by laptolain at 2:46 AM on February 14, 2017
Not to defend Ryan, because he doesn't deserve defending, BUT...
he didn't say that. At least not exactly and not about school lunches.
He said:
"Take Obamacare—not literally, but figuratively, here OK? We now know that this law will discourage millions of people from working. The Left thinks this is a good thing. They say, hey, this is a new freedom—the freedom not to work. I don’t think the problem is too many people are working. I think the problem is not enough people can find work. And if people leave the workforce, our economy will shrink. There will be less opportunity, not more. The Left is making a big mistake here. What they’re offering people is a full stomach and an empty soul. The American people want more than that."
He followed that up with the story of the kid wanting the brown bag lunch as quoted above.
So that's where the confusion comes from I think.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 4:27 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
he didn't say that. At least not exactly and not about school lunches.
He said:
"Take Obamacare—not literally, but figuratively, here OK? We now know that this law will discourage millions of people from working. The Left thinks this is a good thing. They say, hey, this is a new freedom—the freedom not to work. I don’t think the problem is too many people are working. I think the problem is not enough people can find work. And if people leave the workforce, our economy will shrink. There will be less opportunity, not more. The Left is making a big mistake here. What they’re offering people is a full stomach and an empty soul. The American people want more than that."
He followed that up with the story of the kid wanting the brown bag lunch as quoted above.
So that's where the confusion comes from I think.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 4:27 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
So now I'm curious, did Obamacare literally or figuratively discourage "millions" from working? We should know by now. The lunch bag was an erroneous anecdote about a possibly made-up child and incident and was used to illustrate the "problem" of so-called handouts. It's the example meant to persuade the listener that we should be more wary of spending our tax dollars in this way. This way being feeding hungry children...literally or figuratively.
posted by amanda at 5:02 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by amanda at 5:02 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
Even if Ryan did not say those exact words, his shriveled soul listed after them and made them his own.
posted by maxwelton at 5:39 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by maxwelton at 5:39 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think we are all pretty much actually agreed on Ryan being a terrible human being and that he said something close enough to that and within enough context that it's reasonable to attribute it.
I only mentioned it so that poffin boffin's Hague defence be as comprehensive as possible.
Let's talk more about how Jamie Oliver is terrible now.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 6:26 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
I only mentioned it so that poffin boffin's Hague defence be as comprehensive as possible.
Let's talk more about how Jamie Oliver is terrible now.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 6:26 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Outsmarted Jamie Oliver." Bullshit. She didn't outsmart anybody. She took Oliver's idea and actually saw it through to full execution. If Oliver hadn't been the catalyst for this, she would still be serving the same slop to morbidly obese kids day after day.
I like Jamie Oliver. Some of his cooking shows are downright unwatchable (he unfortunately took a lesson from Food Network and made 'pukka' his catchphrase. The British version of 'BAM!'), but he has a cook book called simply "Cook" that I consider my bible of cooking. Really well-written and where I first learned to make pasta. That is where I think he shines and what his TV shows feed the sales of. And I think if he goes on these crusades to get municipalities to stop feeding shit to young children, even if someone else finishes the job, I'm all for it.
posted by prepmonkey at 8:56 AM on February 14, 2017
I like Jamie Oliver. Some of his cooking shows are downright unwatchable (he unfortunately took a lesson from Food Network and made 'pukka' his catchphrase. The British version of 'BAM!'), but he has a cook book called simply "Cook" that I consider my bible of cooking. Really well-written and where I first learned to make pasta. That is where I think he shines and what his TV shows feed the sales of. And I think if he goes on these crusades to get municipalities to stop feeding shit to young children, even if someone else finishes the job, I'm all for it.
posted by prepmonkey at 8:56 AM on February 14, 2017
prepmonkey: If Oliver hadn't been the catalyst for this, she would still be serving the same slop to morbidly obese kids day after day.
Are you sure you read the article?
posted by clawsoon at 9:00 AM on February 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
Are you sure you read the article?
Notwithstanding what “Food Revolution” viewers saw on TV, McCoy’s cafeterias were downright enlightened by the dismal standards of America’s school-lunch program. In 2008, the West Virginia Board of Education had imposed tough new rules that required meals to include fresh fruits and vegetables, lean meats, whole grains, low-fat milk and water. McCoy, a registered dietician with 25 years of experience, pushed her district even further...Are you sure you're not the victim of a pre-packaged junk story? :-)
This was a surprise to Oliver’s advance production team, which assumed that the schools in America’s most unhealthy city would serve junk.
posted by clawsoon at 9:00 AM on February 14, 2017 [11 favorites]
This whole thing has continued to bother me today. I'm going to donate in Rhonda McCoy's name to No Kid Hungry, a program under the umbrella of Share Our Strength. This organization was being promoted by the author of the book misunderstood by Paul Ryan about the soul*-saving properties of a brown bag lunch. If you need to be compelled to do some similar act today, you can watch this video of Paul Ryan utilizing his top-flight man-speaking skills to make people feel that it is their patriotic American duty to deprive children of the possibility of lunch.**
*I love how 'soul' is being slotted in with its handy religious meanings as well as its tricky I-will-know-a-soul-saved-when-I-see-it slipperiness. I hate these men so much.
**This may be a mischaracterization of what is in his heart but I don't give a f.
posted by amanda at 11:00 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
*I love how 'soul' is being slotted in with its handy religious meanings as well as its tricky I-will-know-a-soul-saved-when-I-see-it slipperiness. I hate these men so much.
**This may be a mischaracterization of what is in his heart but I don't give a f.
posted by amanda at 11:00 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, sorry to labour the point here, but what happened was that McCoy was serving meals which hit all of the nutritional requirements (and often exceeding them). Oliver came in and made a bunch of changes which were inefficient and thoughtless. As a result the kids stopped eating the school meals, the budget got cut and several cooks lost their jobs.
She wasn't "serving the same slop", she didn't finish the job that he started, she undid the tremendous mess he made. He should be ashamed of what he did there.
A few pull quotes:
"At a time when 94 percent of U.S. schools were failing to meet federal guidelines, Cabell County hit, and often exceeded, every one."
"Shortly after Oliver left, a study by the West Virginia University Health Research Center reported that 77 percent of students were “very unhappy” with his food. Students who relied on school meals for nearly half of their daily calories routinely dumped their trays in the trash."
"Oliver’s meals ... turned out to be too high in fat to meet the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s standards."
"Within a year the number of students eating school lunch fell 10 percent, forcing her to cut her budget and lay off several cooks."
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 11:18 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
She wasn't "serving the same slop", she didn't finish the job that he started, she undid the tremendous mess he made. He should be ashamed of what he did there.
A few pull quotes:
"At a time when 94 percent of U.S. schools were failing to meet federal guidelines, Cabell County hit, and often exceeded, every one."
"Shortly after Oliver left, a study by the West Virginia University Health Research Center reported that 77 percent of students were “very unhappy” with his food. Students who relied on school meals for nearly half of their daily calories routinely dumped their trays in the trash."
"Oliver’s meals ... turned out to be too high in fat to meet the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s standards."
"Within a year the number of students eating school lunch fell 10 percent, forcing her to cut her budget and lay off several cooks."
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 11:18 AM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
But, the truth...is somewhere in between. She took what he was offering/saying, examined the results of his experiment and noted that they could do better to hit the mark. They could do better than just hit the nutritional requirements and they could do it (with a lot of dedication of energy and administrative support) within the confines of their program.
posted by amanda at 11:56 AM on February 14, 2017
posted by amanda at 11:56 AM on February 14, 2017
The article suggests that they were already exceeding those requirements before Jamie Oliver turned up.
Further, it says that Oliver's food did not meet the nutritional guidelines, they had too much fat in them.
His experiment was actively and directly detrimental.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 12:30 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Further, it says that Oliver's food did not meet the nutritional guidelines, they had too much fat in them.
His experiment was actively and directly detrimental.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 12:30 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
A more effective, but less exciting, reality show would be giving local administrators a grant of a few million dollars for capital improvements to the school lunch program (e.g. the cooking equipment that McCoy had to write grants for), and then acting as a support structure to implementing those changes.
Remember that a lot of trump voters thought he was a good businessman because he played one on The Apprentice.
posted by codacorolla at 12:37 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
Remember that a lot of trump voters thought he was a good businessman because he played one on The Apprentice.
posted by codacorolla at 12:37 PM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
My current health-improvement wish is that my district would get rid of chocolate milk (because of the extra sugar in it), but that's a very unpopular idea and we did manage to get the soda machines turned off during school hours, so, baby steps. I suppose there's some small number of kids who wouldn't drink milk at all if chocolate milk wasn't available and they'd all get rickets, but I feel like that's not that big a constituency and probably they can learn to like white milk.How joyless do you have to be to hate chocolate milk?
posted by adrienneleigh at 3:58 PM on February 14, 2017
"How joyless do you have to be to hate chocolate milk?"
Sixty calories of added sugar per day, during a massive obesity crisis? Not very. I'd like my kids to live to their old age.
Once a week would be fine, but I don't think they need sixty added sugar calories EVERY. DAY. at lunch. It's basically handing them a 6 oz. sprite's worth of sugar every single day.
I mean literally the sugar lobby spends millions of dollars to keep chocolate milk in schools, and not because they care about your kid's health.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:14 PM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
Sixty calories of added sugar per day, during a massive obesity crisis? Not very. I'd like my kids to live to their old age.
Once a week would be fine, but I don't think they need sixty added sugar calories EVERY. DAY. at lunch. It's basically handing them a 6 oz. sprite's worth of sugar every single day.
I mean literally the sugar lobby spends millions of dollars to keep chocolate milk in schools, and not because they care about your kid's health.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:14 PM on February 14, 2017 [9 favorites]
"When I was a kid (many years ago), school lunch was universally reviled and definitely to be avoided. Much preferred was the lunchbox with PB&J, Twinkie and thermos of Hi-C."
One thing our district did that I really liked was, the school board eats the hot lunch for that day for dinner on the nights they have meetings. (Meetings starts at 4 with executive sessions, breaks for dinner, and then comes back for public session at 6:30 ish.) Entree, hot veggie side, cold veggie side (usually salad), salad dressings, desserts, fruit, the whole shebang. (The only thing that's different is they provide us water and iced tea instead of milk, water, and 100% juice for beverages.) So I ate my way through a lot of the menu, and I ate my way through the Obama changes to the standards, which were largely EXCELLENT changes. I ate from two or three different food providers (big ones like Sodexo) over five years,
Every now and then we'd be like, "WOW, this really needs to be pulled from the rotation, this is vile and it is not okay for kids to eat this." But mostly it was pretty tasty, and the menus were fairly creative at meeting the (very strict) nutritional guidelines, and when people bagged on school lunch we were able to say, "Hey, I've actually eaten that, and it's pretty good." With the salt reductions from the new guidelines, I strongly recommend the "ethnic" menus from the big providers, where they go big on the spicy to make up for the lack of salt, SO DELICIOUS. The new guidelines also made more reasonably sized fruits (fist-sized, not baby's-head-sized) and cookies (thin-mint size, not face-size).
The big three school food service providers also provide "localization" options where they make local foods and/or ethnic/immigrant foods, and this is honestly the best part of the menu. There's only so much you can do with school hamburgers -- whatever -- but you can also choose Mexican, Caribbean, pan-(East)-Asian, Indian, and I forget the fifth one menus, where they're a lot easier to meet the veggie requirement and they compensate for the lack of salt with spice heat. My district does standard American, and then also Mexican and Caribbean menus, with Indian menus on special occasions. IT'S SO GOOD.
Today my kids had Southwest Chicken Wraps which I SHOULD HAVE GONE TO SCHOOL, I WILL FIGHT PEOPLE TO EAT THOSE. With sweet potato fries (hot), cucumbers (cold), spinach salad, peaches, and blueberries. Tomorrow they get Chicago-style hotdogs (NO KETCHUP) which I feel is very important for my children to learn about, with broccoli (hot), carrots (cold), romaine salad, bananas, and pears. (Only it's not actually a true Chicago dog because it's a low-fat turkey dog rather than an all-beef frank, but WHATEVER, as long as there's no ketchup.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:37 PM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
One thing our district did that I really liked was, the school board eats the hot lunch for that day for dinner on the nights they have meetings. (Meetings starts at 4 with executive sessions, breaks for dinner, and then comes back for public session at 6:30 ish.) Entree, hot veggie side, cold veggie side (usually salad), salad dressings, desserts, fruit, the whole shebang. (The only thing that's different is they provide us water and iced tea instead of milk, water, and 100% juice for beverages.) So I ate my way through a lot of the menu, and I ate my way through the Obama changes to the standards, which were largely EXCELLENT changes. I ate from two or three different food providers (big ones like Sodexo) over five years,
Every now and then we'd be like, "WOW, this really needs to be pulled from the rotation, this is vile and it is not okay for kids to eat this." But mostly it was pretty tasty, and the menus were fairly creative at meeting the (very strict) nutritional guidelines, and when people bagged on school lunch we were able to say, "Hey, I've actually eaten that, and it's pretty good." With the salt reductions from the new guidelines, I strongly recommend the "ethnic" menus from the big providers, where they go big on the spicy to make up for the lack of salt, SO DELICIOUS. The new guidelines also made more reasonably sized fruits (fist-sized, not baby's-head-sized) and cookies (thin-mint size, not face-size).
The big three school food service providers also provide "localization" options where they make local foods and/or ethnic/immigrant foods, and this is honestly the best part of the menu. There's only so much you can do with school hamburgers -- whatever -- but you can also choose Mexican, Caribbean, pan-(East)-Asian, Indian, and I forget the fifth one menus, where they're a lot easier to meet the veggie requirement and they compensate for the lack of salt with spice heat. My district does standard American, and then also Mexican and Caribbean menus, with Indian menus on special occasions. IT'S SO GOOD.
Today my kids had Southwest Chicken Wraps which I SHOULD HAVE GONE TO SCHOOL, I WILL FIGHT PEOPLE TO EAT THOSE. With sweet potato fries (hot), cucumbers (cold), spinach salad, peaches, and blueberries. Tomorrow they get Chicago-style hotdogs (NO KETCHUP) which I feel is very important for my children to learn about, with broccoli (hot), carrots (cold), romaine salad, bananas, and pears. (Only it's not actually a true Chicago dog because it's a low-fat turkey dog rather than an all-beef frank, but WHATEVER, as long as there's no ketchup.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:37 PM on February 14, 2017 [7 favorites]
But mostly it was pretty tasty, and the menus were fairly creative at meeting the (very strict) nutritional guidelines, and when people bagged on school lunch we were able to say, "Hey, I've actually eaten that, and it's pretty good."
For sure, the food has definitely improved since the days of "Something on a shingle" and processed turkey loaf.
My child's school contracts with the community college culinary program. Today was:
Roasted pork loin w/apricot honey glaze (Caramelized onion mushroom tofu bake),
roasted potatoes, veg. medley, rolls, white rice/ applesauce
Next week:
Chicken breast with artichoke lemon sauce (BBQ Tofu),
Hered Quinoa, roasted veggies, rolls, white rice, dried fruit snacks
I've never actually eaten there, but it looks good when I go by.
The school near me still seems to have a lot of pizza and chicken nuggets on offer, but they also have vegetarian options, locally sourced hummus, organic yogurt from an instate dairy.
Plus they offer complete nutrition information online.
Judging by the URL for the menus, it appears to be Sodexo, I'm not sure how much cooking they do at the school vs. heating/warming.
It's an older school, though, so they have a full kitchen.
posted by madajb at 8:20 PM on February 14, 2017
For sure, the food has definitely improved since the days of "Something on a shingle" and processed turkey loaf.
My child's school contracts with the community college culinary program. Today was:
Roasted pork loin w/apricot honey glaze (Caramelized onion mushroom tofu bake),
roasted potatoes, veg. medley, rolls, white rice/ applesauce
Next week:
Chicken breast with artichoke lemon sauce (BBQ Tofu),
Hered Quinoa, roasted veggies, rolls, white rice, dried fruit snacks
I've never actually eaten there, but it looks good when I go by.
The school near me still seems to have a lot of pizza and chicken nuggets on offer, but they also have vegetarian options, locally sourced hummus, organic yogurt from an instate dairy.
Plus they offer complete nutrition information online.
Judging by the URL for the menus, it appears to be Sodexo, I'm not sure how much cooking they do at the school vs. heating/warming.
It's an older school, though, so they have a full kitchen.
posted by madajb at 8:20 PM on February 14, 2017
One of the first things she did was remove the saltshakers from cafeteria tables—a move that prompted students to steal salt packets from fast-food restaurants and create a black market for them at lunch.Wait, what? School cafeterias with salt shakers? How the hell do you hose those tables down with a power sprayer if they've got salt shakers on them. And, what kid under the age of 16 (or, neglecting edge cases, 75) has ever actively sought out a salt shaker and used it? Sugar, ketchup, jam, honey, hot sauce, terribly little folded napkins that are more annoying than useful, sure. . . but salt?
Sometimes I wonder if I've been dropped into another universe where all the people who apparently share the same culture and history as me have lived subtly but fundamentally different lives in ways that make the world incomprehensible.
But, this lady seems pretty great. I wish she'd been my food supervisor when I was in school.
posted by eotvos at 9:07 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
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There's one specific region of the country I know of that likes cinnamon in its chili, it's not in WV, and outside of that region, it's something of a U.S. culinary punchline. That may sound like a nitpicky criticism, but it's emblematic of Oliver's decidedly "let them eat cake made with whole wheat pastry flour" approach to this problem.
posted by middleclasstool at 11:37 AM on February 13, 2017 [24 favorites]