#unitygames NJ 5th Graders Provide Hope that the Kids Will Be Alright
February 13, 2017 6:55 PM Subscribe
Fifth-grade Catholic youth team forfeits season rather than kick girls off For several years, a Catholic Youth Organization (CYO) basketball team in New Jersey had included a pair of girls. But recently the squad, now in the fifth grade, was presented with a difficult choice: Drop the girls, per the archdiocese’s rules, or forfeit the season.
The team’s decision was unanimous. It was also courageous and inspiring.
Further coverage at NJ.com
AD rejects girls' last-ditch effort to save CYO season
On Friday, at the second to last game of the season, referees were instructed not to officiate the game if the girls were on the court. Instead, the team forfeited and played an off-the-books "unity game" against each other instead of against their scheduled opponents.
Per usual, don't read the comments.....
Further coverage at NJ.com
AD rejects girls' last-ditch effort to save CYO season
On Friday, at the second to last game of the season, referees were instructed not to officiate the game if the girls were on the court. Instead, the team forfeited and played an off-the-books "unity game" against each other instead of against their scheduled opponents.
Per usual, don't read the comments.....
Excellent story. Those kids are good examples to their elders.
From the second link:
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 7:14 PM on February 13, 2017 [24 favorites]
From the second link:
The St. John's athletic director, Jack Cajuste, and the Union County CYO league director, Rich Donovan, did not return requests for comment. A spokesman for the archdiocese of Newark also would not comment.What is wrong with this archdiocese?
The girls have played with these boys for the past four years because there were not enough interested girls their same age to form a separate team, the parents say.
The decision to remove the girls came two weeks ago, after a complaint was filed when St. John's played St. Theresa's, a few miles away in Kenilworth.
There, another crusade is being waged - the family of a 7th grade girl, Sydney Phillips, sued after the school wouldn't allow her to play for its boys basketball team. Phillips and her sister were expelled from the school after the suit, but on Feb. 3, an appeals court judge ruled they must be allowed to return to school.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 7:14 PM on February 13, 2017 [24 favorites]
For some reason, Ruth's words to Naomi about sticking together popped into my head when I read about the kids who didn't want to play without their teammates:
"Entreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee - for whither thou goest, I will go, and where thou lodgest, I will lodge. Thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God."posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:18 PM on February 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
What is wrong with this archdiocese?
I would wager this mindset has more to do with the majority of its parishioners.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:37 PM on February 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
I would wager this mindset has more to do with the majority of its parishioners.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:37 PM on February 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
What a great example these kids are setting to the adults who are urging them to just follow orders and get along.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:10 PM on February 13, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:10 PM on February 13, 2017 [32 favorites]
Because the primary lesson of Christianity is supposed to be sacrifice yourself for others. Why do only the kids get that?
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:51 PM on February 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:51 PM on February 13, 2017 [12 favorites]
To be specific, they forfeited the last two games of the season, because they'd been playing just fine all season until a team they beat complained to the archdiocese.
posted by kafziel at 9:01 PM on February 13, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by kafziel at 9:01 PM on February 13, 2017 [41 favorites]
Adults fail at adulting.
posted by BlueHorse at 10:13 PM on February 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by BlueHorse at 10:13 PM on February 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is such a weird story. The complaint came from another school that previously been sued by another girl's family for not letting her on the basketball team. Soooo they decided to have a temper tantrum and ruin some other kids' basketball game. What the hell is wrong with these people.
posted by bleep at 11:11 PM on February 13, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by bleep at 11:11 PM on February 13, 2017 [34 favorites]
The complaint came from another school that previously been sued by another girl's family for not letting her on the basketball team. Soooo they decided to have a temper tantrum and ruin some other kids' basketball game. What the hell is wrong with these people.
Because I am obsessed with ladies doing sports, I have been following this story since the first lawsuit against the rival school. The take of the local gossip commenters is that the first little girl's parents might be Difficult, possibly enough so that no other families were interested in continuing the CYO girls' team at the school. Apparently the parents of the little boys on the remaining team felt similarly.
From there we have the public record, which is that the school ridiculously decided the best solution was a rules-lawyer ban, the Difficult parents sued and lost, the school expelled the little girl and her sister the day after the judgment came down, held a meeting at the school to explain this similarly rules-lawyer-y piece of nonsense at the school, where they threatened to have the three cops in attendance arrest two schoolchildren for trespassing , the parents got a stay on the expulsion, and now I am back in speculation land but I would bet a good sum of money that the Difficult parents found out that there was an actual co-ed team in the league and demanded they be sanctioned in their own anal bit of rules lawyering, and that, my friends, is how a handful of educated, affluent adults in suburban New Jersey ruined the innocent and healthy fun of at least 20 fifth-graders who like to play basketball together.
The mind, it boggles.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 12:41 AM on February 14, 2017 [30 favorites]
Because I am obsessed with ladies doing sports, I have been following this story since the first lawsuit against the rival school. The take of the local gossip commenters is that the first little girl's parents might be Difficult, possibly enough so that no other families were interested in continuing the CYO girls' team at the school. Apparently the parents of the little boys on the remaining team felt similarly.
From there we have the public record, which is that the school ridiculously decided the best solution was a rules-lawyer ban, the Difficult parents sued and lost, the school expelled the little girl and her sister the day after the judgment came down, held a meeting at the school to explain this similarly rules-lawyer-y piece of nonsense at the school, where they threatened to have the three cops in attendance arrest two schoolchildren for trespassing , the parents got a stay on the expulsion, and now I am back in speculation land but I would bet a good sum of money that the Difficult parents found out that there was an actual co-ed team in the league and demanded they be sanctioned in their own anal bit of rules lawyering, and that, my friends, is how a handful of educated, affluent adults in suburban New Jersey ruined the innocent and healthy fun of at least 20 fifth-graders who like to play basketball together.
The mind, it boggles.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 12:41 AM on February 14, 2017 [30 favorites]
You know the scene at the very end of West Side Story where the adults are all left standing there hopelessly ("bowed, alone, useless") because of the kids' violence they've failed to do anything to prevent? This is a lot like that, except here the kids did great and the adults responsible for this league are standing there bowed, alone, and useless.
posted by zachlipton at 2:26 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:26 AM on February 14, 2017 [3 favorites]
I can't understand how a hierarchical institution where no one is accountable to those below, and institution with a reputation for the literal abuse of children, an institution that does not allow women to participate in meaningful leadership, could be responsible for such actions!
posted by rikschell at 4:56 AM on February 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 4:56 AM on February 14, 2017 [20 favorites]
I wish, even after the game (and season!) was forfeited St. Bart's had stayed and still played the scheduled game. Sure, it wouldn't count in the standings but it would have (1) given the girls a chance to play another game, (2) been more fun for St. John's than just scrimmaging with themselves, (3) been more fun for St. Bart's than just driving to the court and driving home, and (4) provided another data point on how low the risk of catching girl cooties on the basketball court actually is.
posted by mark k at 7:18 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by mark k at 7:18 AM on February 14, 2017 [4 favorites]
When I read the first story, where the boys stood in solidarity with the girls and forfeited, the "feel-good" from the kids' behavior was enough to make me forget about the idiotic stance the league was making.
But when I read the second story, that the girls were willing to sit out the final game to give the boys one more chance to play only to have the league refuse to allow the game because of the "stunt" the team had pulled by doing the right thing, I just wanted to cry.
posted by layceepee at 8:08 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
But when I read the second story, that the girls were willing to sit out the final game to give the boys one more chance to play only to have the league refuse to allow the game because of the "stunt" the team had pulled by doing the right thing, I just wanted to cry.
posted by layceepee at 8:08 AM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
gotta get started on putting girls in their place early. otherwise they might want to be treated like equals later on. best to lower their expectations now.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 11:16 AM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 11:16 AM on February 14, 2017 [8 favorites]
and now I am back in speculation land but I would bet a good sum of money that the Difficult parents found out that there was an actual co-ed team in the league and demanded they be sanctioned in their own anal bit of rules lawyering, and that, my friends, is how a handful of educated, affluent adults in suburban New Jersey ruined the innocent and healthy fun of at least 20 fifth-graders who like to play basketball together.
Why would you immediately jump to the conclusion that the parents of the disenfranchised girl - deemed "Difficult" by the local gossipmongers for the audacity of wanting their daughter to be able to play the sport she liked and expecting their school to abide by Title IX - would seek out to ruin this other team out of spite? Rather than the far more likely scenario, where the school they're suing saw girls on the other team when St. Theresa's played St. John's and decided to ruin the other team too, to protect their case?
It seems like an awful lot of victim-blaming to just kind of take as a given that the people who are desperately suing their entire archdiocese to protect their daughter's freedom to play basketball for her school would deliberately seek out and destroy other peoples' daughters freedom to play basketball for their school, for no apparent reason.
posted by kafziel at 11:33 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Why would you immediately jump to the conclusion that the parents of the disenfranchised girl - deemed "Difficult" by the local gossipmongers for the audacity of wanting their daughter to be able to play the sport she liked and expecting their school to abide by Title IX - would seek out to ruin this other team out of spite? Rather than the far more likely scenario, where the school they're suing saw girls on the other team when St. Theresa's played St. John's and decided to ruin the other team too, to protect their case?
It seems like an awful lot of victim-blaming to just kind of take as a given that the people who are desperately suing their entire archdiocese to protect their daughter's freedom to play basketball for her school would deliberately seek out and destroy other peoples' daughters freedom to play basketball for their school, for no apparent reason.
posted by kafziel at 11:33 PM on February 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Title IX is not relevant in this case. That's why the initial lawsuit was dismissed.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 11:43 PM on February 14, 2017
posted by Snarl Furillo at 11:43 PM on February 14, 2017
But I bet you are right about this part: the school they're suing saw girls on the other team when St. Theresa's played St. John's and decided to ruin the other team too, to protect their case?
It's a way more plausible theory than what I was imagining, and I feel a little foolish for not seeing it.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 11:46 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's a way more plausible theory than what I was imagining, and I feel a little foolish for not seeing it.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 11:46 PM on February 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
It was not dismissed, though. They lost at the initial trial and are appealing. The case is not over.
posted by kafziel at 12:33 AM on February 15, 2017
posted by kafziel at 12:33 AM on February 15, 2017
There hasn't been a trial. The hearing they lost in January was a preliminary injunction hearing. They're appealing the outcome of that hearing.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 1:50 AM on February 15, 2017
posted by Snarl Furillo at 1:50 AM on February 15, 2017
Like, my understanding was that the case was dismissed at the preliminary hearing, but I guess it's also possible that they just didn't get the injunction to let her join the boys' team. I'm not a lawyer.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 1:55 AM on February 15, 2017
posted by Snarl Furillo at 1:55 AM on February 15, 2017
I wish, even after the game (and season!) was forfeited St. Bart's had stayed and still played the scheduled game.
Yeah this has been bugging me too. It's a 5th grade team. You've got a bunch of kids on both sides who showed up to play a basketball game, coaches, parents, basketballs, and a gym. Even if the league says they won't score it and even if the ref says he's going home, why not play a game of basketball, together, anyway? While you're there?
posted by zachlipton at 2:24 AM on February 15, 2017
Yeah this has been bugging me too. It's a 5th grade team. You've got a bunch of kids on both sides who showed up to play a basketball game, coaches, parents, basketballs, and a gym. Even if the league says they won't score it and even if the ref says he's going home, why not play a game of basketball, together, anyway? While you're there?
posted by zachlipton at 2:24 AM on February 15, 2017
Because everyone is terrified what the AD would do to anyone seen to be fraternising with the 'stunt' pulling lot?
posted by trif at 7:31 AM on February 15, 2017
posted by trif at 7:31 AM on February 15, 2017
The lawsuits suck. The way the archdiocese and in general, most of the adults involved have acted, sucks. But I was so happy to read a story that confirms my belief that children who are not actively taught to hate, generally turn out ok. Not all boys are automatically little misogynists. And in these crazy, turbulent times every tiny shred of evidence that there is goodness in people, I need to see, and ampify and celebrate. So, yay for St John's team. You lost the season but won in every other imaginable way!
posted by pjsky at 10:04 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by pjsky at 10:04 AM on February 15, 2017 [3 favorites]
I live across the street from St. Bart's. This was big news on our local FB page. A parent explained why they didn't stay to play the game for fun. They apparently had no idea there was any controversy and the Athletic Director from St. John's told them that since the referees left they were forbidden to play on the court. No one said "let's play for fun"; they were just told to leave. The St. Barts group felt like they were blindsided and set up to be the bad guys even though they'd played St. John's before and had no issues playing them again.
Obviously, the archdiocese is really the bad guy here, but it seems pretty unfair to leave a supportive team out in the cold like that.
posted by ceejaytee at 10:46 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Obviously, the archdiocese is really the bad guy here, but it seems pretty unfair to leave a supportive team out in the cold like that.
posted by ceejaytee at 10:46 AM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
I live across the street from St. Bart's. This was big news on our local FB page. A parent explained why they didn't stay to play the game for fun. They apparently had no idea there was any controversy and the Athletic Director from St. John's told them that since the referees left they were forbidden to play on the court. No one said "let's play for fun"; they were just told to leave. The St. Barts group felt like they were blindsided and set up to be the bad guys even though they'd played St. John's before and had no issues playing them again.
Congrats! The parents are lying to you. That exact topic was specifically raised - "For 15 minutes, there was a stalemate as the teams, coaches and officials couldn't come to an agreement about what should happen next. Couldn't the St. Bart's players just play an unofficial game, with the girls included, and collect a win due to the "official" game being forfeited?" - and they refused. So, no, the St. Bart's group is not being "set up" to be bad guys here.
Good news, though. Apparently the Archbishop has re-reversed his previous decision. Saying that "the Saint John's JV Black team should not have been penalized for mistakes that adults responsible for following the league rules may have made.", "the girls are to be immediately put back on the team, their 7-3 record is to be reinstated, the two regular games that were not played are to be rescheduled and played immediately, and the team is to continue on together into the playoffs." Of course, sounds like he's still backing the rule, so next season they're probably getting kicked to the curb.
posted by kafziel at 5:42 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Congrats! The parents are lying to you. That exact topic was specifically raised - "For 15 minutes, there was a stalemate as the teams, coaches and officials couldn't come to an agreement about what should happen next. Couldn't the St. Bart's players just play an unofficial game, with the girls included, and collect a win due to the "official" game being forfeited?" - and they refused. So, no, the St. Bart's group is not being "set up" to be bad guys here.
Good news, though. Apparently the Archbishop has re-reversed his previous decision. Saying that "the Saint John's JV Black team should not have been penalized for mistakes that adults responsible for following the league rules may have made.", "the girls are to be immediately put back on the team, their 7-3 record is to be reinstated, the two regular games that were not played are to be rescheduled and played immediately, and the team is to continue on together into the playoffs." Of course, sounds like he's still backing the rule, so next season they're probably getting kicked to the curb.
posted by kafziel at 5:42 PM on February 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah I mean it kind of sounds like he's taking an action because he doesn't want the boys to suffer.
posted by bleep at 11:17 PM on February 16, 2017
posted by bleep at 11:17 PM on February 16, 2017
Well, what do you expect? It wouldn't be the Catholic Church if it gave a shit about women.
posted by kafziel at 11:35 PM on February 16, 2017
posted by kafziel at 11:35 PM on February 16, 2017
Even if the majority of the parents knew what was going on, I don't believe it necessarily follows that the particular parents ceejaytee heard from were necessarily lying and not just in the dark.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:19 AM on February 17, 2017
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:19 AM on February 17, 2017
I mean, the parents present were included in the discussion, and the idea of playing a game for fun was raised in the discussion. So if these parents claim to have been there, and nobody suggested it, then either they are lying about being there, lying about nobody having suggested it, or were so deliberately excluded from all discussions that pretending to have any authority to speak about what happened is a lie in and of itself.
posted by kafziel at 12:27 PM on February 17, 2017
posted by kafziel at 12:27 PM on February 17, 2017
I don't know how many children's events you've been involved with, but the idea that every single parent present was part of the discussion just doesn't mesh with the reality I've lived as a person who's worked with children. These events are crowded and noisy, and there are always people coming out of it not sure what's going on. And even people who have a general idea of what's going on while it's going on may not know all of the facts until afterwards because of all the conversation and commotion in the moment. "Lying" is an awfully strong word to be throwing around, is all I'm saying.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:47 PM on February 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:47 PM on February 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
« Older The Preacher and the Sheriff | This stationery and design blog is Present &... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Peach at 7:02 PM on February 13, 2017 [2 favorites]