Rebellion has its roots in government's indifference and incompetence.
March 19, 2017 2:32 PM Subscribe
The Big Deal this week is Neil Gorsuch's nomination hearings. Meanwhile, the Trump administration has trouble understanding why its revised immigration ban was blocked (it also has trouble distinguishing praise from satire).
The AHCA appears to be in a death spiral, Trump has managed to annoy both the United Kingdom and Germany, and more questions have arisen about his promised charitable donations.
The AHCA appears to be in a death spiral, Trump has managed to annoy both the United Kingdom and Germany, and more questions have arisen about his promised charitable donations.
I wish he'd hurry up and annoy Canada. Trudeau, you're screwing this up. (Mumbles)
posted by Yowser at 2:38 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 2:38 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
Here, Going To Maine, have a nice song about The Boy From Mar-a-Lago.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:39 PM on March 19, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:39 PM on March 19, 2017 [13 favorites]
Surely the other big deal this week is the House Intelligence Committee hearing?
posted by zachlipton at 2:40 PM on March 19, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:40 PM on March 19, 2017 [15 favorites]
So the wall has to be 30 feet tall, aesthetically pleasing on one side at least and impenetrable in under an hour by any number of tools including acetylene torch. Sounds extremely expensive. This isn't cinder block and rebar we're talking about.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:42 PM on March 19, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:42 PM on March 19, 2017 [11 favorites]
Don't forget about North Korea
Both the DPRK and Tillerson are playing a very dangerous game. The DPRK in particular are in a significantly different place, given that I wouldn't put it past Donald to either bomb or nuke them. China probably also knows that, so it's a significantly more unstable situation on all sides.
posted by jaduncan at 2:44 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
Both the DPRK and Tillerson are playing a very dangerous game. The DPRK in particular are in a significantly different place, given that I wouldn't put it past Donald to either bomb or nuke them. China probably also knows that, so it's a significantly more unstable situation on all sides.
posted by jaduncan at 2:44 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Amicus podcast has an interview with Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.) on why it’s worth opposing the Gorsuch nomination.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:45 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 2:45 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm sure I forgot other pressing issues, but my iPad was litrally melting and I had to hit Post before it caught fire
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:50 PM on March 19, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:50 PM on March 19, 2017 [29 favorites]
Tillerson is the first person ever to have brought the world t the brink of nuclear war because they couldn't be bothered with their job and wanted to take a nap instead.
posted by Artw at 2:51 PM on March 19, 2017 [61 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:51 PM on March 19, 2017 [61 favorites]
as much as i'd like to blame tillerson and trump for everything and anything, i've got to conclude that n korea is just too reckless for us to expect anything but eventual disaster - surely china must realize this
posted by pyramid termite at 2:57 PM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 2:57 PM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
Donald Trump’s Mexico border wall will be as high as 55 65 feet, according to Donald Trump
The thing about which he's offered the most details, naturally, is his wall on the Mexican border. We know his plan for paying for that: Mexico foots the bill. (To which Mexico replies, "lol.") We know it will be concrete, and we know that it will have a "big, beautiful door" in it, so the "good ones" came come on in.posted by kirkaracha at 2:58 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
What we don't know, though, is the most important number: How high it will be? Trump's been vague about this and has a recent applause-grabbing habit of randomly increasing the height. So we did our best to figure out how big this thing was going to be.
Christ on sale, can there really be this many people who are both incredibly stupid and incredibly racist?
AND cruel!
I mean I am a cynic, but for fucks sake even I didn't think 40% of the country was this close to being just plain evil
posted by schadenfrau at 3:01 PM on March 19, 2017 [75 favorites]
AND cruel!
I mean I am a cynic, but for fucks sake even I didn't think 40% of the country was this close to being just plain evil
posted by schadenfrau at 3:01 PM on March 19, 2017 [75 favorites]
as much as i'd like to blame tillerson and trump for everything and anything, i've got to conclude that n korea is just too reckless for us to expect anything but eventual disaster - surely china must realize this
DPRK do something ostentatious whenever they want attention, and the real threat isn't nukes in any case; they have a lot of artillery pieces within range of Seoul that can be loaded with chemical weapons or just launch a massive strike on millions of civilians.
posted by jaduncan at 3:04 PM on March 19, 2017 [11 favorites]
DPRK do something ostentatious whenever they want attention, and the real threat isn't nukes in any case; they have a lot of artillery pieces within range of Seoul that can be loaded with chemical weapons or just launch a massive strike on millions of civilians.
posted by jaduncan at 3:04 PM on March 19, 2017 [11 favorites]
G.O.P.’s Health Care Tightrope Winds Through the Blue-Collar Midwest: “People in this community are very conservative. They struggle with the federal budget deficit, and they like the idea of personal responsibility,” said Phil Ennen, the president and chief executive of Community Hospitals and Wellness Centers, which has a 75-bed hospital in Bryan. “But at the same time, we have a lot of friends and family and neighbors who just don’t have a lot going for them. There is a population out there that needs Medicaid. That’s the dilemma.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:11 PM on March 19, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:11 PM on March 19, 2017 [14 favorites]
Looking at a map of South Korea shows why the US would have to be desperate and/or insane to actually invade the North. I mean, if it took a day for US air support to clear out all of the North Korean artillery, the amount of damage that could be done around Seoul (an enormous metro area of 24 million) is mind-numbing to even consider.
posted by graymouser at 3:12 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by graymouser at 3:12 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
Tillerson is the first person ever to have brought the world t the brink of nuclear war because they couldn't be bothered with their job and wanted to take a nap instead.
I have no evidence for this, but I bet he actually isn't.
posted by penduluum at 3:14 PM on March 19, 2017 [47 favorites]
I have no evidence for this, but I bet he actually isn't.
posted by penduluum at 3:14 PM on March 19, 2017 [47 favorites]
even I didn't think 40% of the country was this close to being just plain evil
A lot of them have been waiting for an opportunity to be evil, like this waiter, who was not only in "Bright Blue California" but also “had never received so much as a write-up before”.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:15 PM on March 19, 2017 [14 favorites]
A lot of them have been waiting for an opportunity to be evil, like this waiter, who was not only in "Bright Blue California" but also “had never received so much as a write-up before”.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:15 PM on March 19, 2017 [14 favorites]
Tillerson is the first person ever to have brought the world to the brink of nuclear war because they couldn't be bothered with their job and wanted to take a nap instead.
I mean, it's not clear it would be better if he were speaking up - see this WaPo article that in part describes him accepting the Chinese framing of the China-US relationship.
posted by ubersturm at 3:22 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
I mean, it's not clear it would be better if he were speaking up - see this WaPo article that in part describes him accepting the Chinese framing of the China-US relationship.
posted by ubersturm at 3:22 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
They struggle with the federal budget deficit, and they like the idea of personal responsibility... But at the same time, we have a lot of friends and family and neighbors... That’s the dilemma.
Uh, yeah, sure. On the one hand, an accounting device and a moral platitude, and on the other, human beings. Boy, that sure is a tough one.
posted by dirge at 3:24 PM on March 19, 2017 [94 favorites]
Uh, yeah, sure. On the one hand, an accounting device and a moral platitude, and on the other, human beings. Boy, that sure is a tough one.
posted by dirge at 3:24 PM on March 19, 2017 [94 favorites]
“People in this community are very conservative. They struggle with the federal budget deficit, and they like the idea of personal responsibility,” said Phil Ennen, the president and chief executive of Community Hospitals and Wellness Centers, which has a 75-bed hospital in Bryan. “But at the same time, we have a lot of friends and family and neighbors who just don’t have a lot going for them. There is a population out there that needs Medicaid. That’s the dilemma.”
There's a lot to unpack here.
Putting aside the fact that their don't really understand how the federal deficit works, I want to focus on "personal responsibility." I think that phrase doesn't mean what it seems to mean, as evidenced by the second part of his statement regarding folks who "don't have a lot going on."
To whit, if the definition of "personal respinsibility" is "taking care of all of one's own problems without any help from outside," then they should feel like their friends and neighbors without anything going on need to just personal responsibility their way out of their problems (or die, having failed to do that). But they don't want people they know to suffer and, thus, agree that some people genuinely do need the help. So this leads me to think "personal responsibility" is code for "people who I don't know don't deserve help but people I do know do deserve help." Broadly, this reveals a general belief that only their community demerges help, but didn't it tacitly also suggest that "personal responsibility" is a racist dogwhistle?
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:28 PM on March 19, 2017 [143 favorites]
There's a lot to unpack here.
Putting aside the fact that their don't really understand how the federal deficit works, I want to focus on "personal responsibility." I think that phrase doesn't mean what it seems to mean, as evidenced by the second part of his statement regarding folks who "don't have a lot going on."
To whit, if the definition of "personal respinsibility" is "taking care of all of one's own problems without any help from outside," then they should feel like their friends and neighbors without anything going on need to just personal responsibility their way out of their problems (or die, having failed to do that). But they don't want people they know to suffer and, thus, agree that some people genuinely do need the help. So this leads me to think "personal responsibility" is code for "people who I don't know don't deserve help but people I do know do deserve help." Broadly, this reveals a general belief that only their community demerges help, but didn't it tacitly also suggest that "personal responsibility" is a racist dogwhistle?
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:28 PM on March 19, 2017 [143 favorites]
Only 1325 days until the next presidential elections.
posted by Pendragon at 3:28 PM on March 19, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Pendragon at 3:28 PM on March 19, 2017 [13 favorites]
Looking at a map of South Korea shows why the US would have to be desperate and/or insane to actually invade the North. I mean, if it took a day for US air support to clear out all of the North Korean artillery, the amount of damage that could be done around Seoul (an enormous metro area of 24 million) is mind-numbing to even consider.
Yes. The range on that artillery isn't all that, but there are thousands of pieces and RoK would still have to move most of the population from the north to the south of the city. That's assuming that DPRK didn't go chemical, too.
The hard thing for DPRK is that even if their nuclear sites are bombed they have to go big or go home; there's not much they can do conventionally as they are well and truly outgunned. So yeah, it's possible that they wouldn't respond much, possible that a proper war finally happens, or possible that the regime collapses and millions of refugees/IDPs have to be dealt with as everyone desperately hopes that they knew the location of every nuke and DPRK don't have a couple in tunnels under RoK.
There are a lot of known unknowns; normally everyone threatens to kill everyone, China provides enough aid to prevent utter DPRK social breakdown, and that's a somewhat stable par for the course. The outside possibility that Donald might actually pull the trigger is really quite destabilising.
posted by jaduncan at 3:29 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yes. The range on that artillery isn't all that, but there are thousands of pieces and RoK would still have to move most of the population from the north to the south of the city. That's assuming that DPRK didn't go chemical, too.
The hard thing for DPRK is that even if their nuclear sites are bombed they have to go big or go home; there's not much they can do conventionally as they are well and truly outgunned. So yeah, it's possible that they wouldn't respond much, possible that a proper war finally happens, or possible that the regime collapses and millions of refugees/IDPs have to be dealt with as everyone desperately hopes that they knew the location of every nuke and DPRK don't have a couple in tunnels under RoK.
There are a lot of known unknowns; normally everyone threatens to kill everyone, China provides enough aid to prevent utter DPRK social breakdown, and that's a somewhat stable par for the course. The outside possibility that Donald might actually pull the trigger is really quite destabilising.
posted by jaduncan at 3:29 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
They struggle with the federal budget deficit, and they like the idea of personal responsibility
Oh bullshit. If they struggled with the deficit they would've become lifetime Democrats when George W. Bush turned an all-time record surplus into a then all-time record deficit.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:32 PM on March 19, 2017 [150 favorites]
Only 1325 days until the next presidential elections.
Actually it's -31 days.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:35 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
even I didn't think 40% of the country was this close to being just plain evil
A lot of them have been waiting for an opportunity to be evil, like this waiter, who was not only in "Bright Blue California" but also “had never received so much as a write-up before”.
Huntington Beach has always had vocal white supremacists, I would never consider that area to be "Bright Blue California."
posted by ActingTheGoat at 3:40 PM on March 19, 2017 [12 favorites]
A lot of them have been waiting for an opportunity to be evil, like this waiter, who was not only in "Bright Blue California" but also “had never received so much as a write-up before”.
Huntington Beach has always had vocal white supremacists, I would never consider that area to be "Bright Blue California."
posted by ActingTheGoat at 3:40 PM on March 19, 2017 [12 favorites]
they say most crimes are crimes of opportunity, and when you have a white nationalist agenda in the whitehouse, that's when hate-crimes of opportunity start happening; cowards who never dared to be racist in public are emboldened
posted by idiopath at 3:40 PM on March 19, 2017 [49 favorites]
posted by idiopath at 3:40 PM on March 19, 2017 [49 favorites]
i've got to conclude that n korea is just too reckless for us to expect anything but eventual disaster - surely china must realize this
That was the unspoken policy of the previous three presidents -- "All we have to do is wait for the collapse, which will certainly come in the next four to eight years." We and the world need a better policy. I ain't holding my breath for Tillerson and Trump to stumble into one.
posted by Etrigan at 3:41 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
That was the unspoken policy of the previous three presidents -- "All we have to do is wait for the collapse, which will certainly come in the next four to eight years." We and the world need a better policy. I ain't holding my breath for Tillerson and Trump to stumble into one.
posted by Etrigan at 3:41 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
How News Organizations Inadvertently Spread "Alternative Facts": The way they construct stories makes it likely that readers will believe things that aren’t true
posted by homunculus at 3:41 PM on March 19, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 3:41 PM on March 19, 2017 [24 favorites]
The DPRK in particular are in a significantly different place, given that I wouldn't put it past Donald to either bomb or nuke them.
I have to believe that such an order (especially nukes) might result in deliberate refusal on the part of the military. They understand the sort of worldwide shit bomb such an act would engender. Trump turning purple, screaming for the resignations of the Joint Chiefs in front of cameras, would be quite a sight.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:45 PM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
I have to believe that such an order (especially nukes) might result in deliberate refusal on the part of the military. They understand the sort of worldwide shit bomb such an act would engender. Trump turning purple, screaming for the resignations of the Joint Chiefs in front of cameras, would be quite a sight.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:45 PM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm reading that over 700 contractors have already "registered intent" re: building the shitty wall. I just hate everything we have become.
posted by thebrokedown at 3:52 PM on March 19, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 3:52 PM on March 19, 2017 [24 favorites]
I’m reading that over 700 contractors have already "registered intent" re: building the shitty wall. I just hate everything we have become.
Is there a list?
posted by Going To Maine at 3:53 PM on March 19, 2017 [8 favorites]
Is there a list?
posted by Going To Maine at 3:53 PM on March 19, 2017 [8 favorites]
I have to believe that such an order (especially nukes) might result in deliberate refusal on the part of the military. They understand the sort of worldwide shit bomb such an act would engender. Trump turning purple, screaming for the resignations of the Joint Chiefs in front of cameras, would be quite a sight.
Nukes wouldn't be stage 1. Think of it this way, if you want a simple version:
Stage 1: US bombs nuclear sites (already being requested).
Stage 2: DPRK do something stupid and start to shell RoK and/or US materiel within RoK.
Stage 3: US and/or RoK response, either leveling stuff nearby the DMZ or doing a few strikes on leadership positions.
Stage 4: DPRK starts to shell Seoul, maybe goes chemical.
Stage 5: The use of NBC by DPRK means that, as per existing doctrine, NBC responses are acceptable from the US. The US only has nuclear.
Are you so sure that people say no at stage 5 after a briefing that millions of people in Seoul might die? I don't think the above is likely, but it isn't impossible either. Stage five might also just be a large air campaign resulting in the collapse of the DPRK and millions of refugees/starving civilians in a state that isn't likely to let any aid workers in. Starting to shoot things would be unimaginably dangerous.
posted by jaduncan at 3:54 PM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
Nukes wouldn't be stage 1. Think of it this way, if you want a simple version:
Stage 1: US bombs nuclear sites (already being requested).
Stage 2: DPRK do something stupid and start to shell RoK and/or US materiel within RoK.
Stage 3: US and/or RoK response, either leveling stuff nearby the DMZ or doing a few strikes on leadership positions.
Stage 4: DPRK starts to shell Seoul, maybe goes chemical.
Stage 5: The use of NBC by DPRK means that, as per existing doctrine, NBC responses are acceptable from the US. The US only has nuclear.
Are you so sure that people say no at stage 5 after a briefing that millions of people in Seoul might die? I don't think the above is likely, but it isn't impossible either. Stage five might also just be a large air campaign resulting in the collapse of the DPRK and millions of refugees/starving civilians in a state that isn't likely to let any aid workers in. Starting to shoot things would be unimaginably dangerous.
posted by jaduncan at 3:54 PM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
So this leads me to think "personal responsibility" is code for "people who I don't know don't deserve help but people I do know do deserve help." Broadly, this reveals a general belief that only their community demerges help, but didn't it tacitly also suggest that "personal responsibility" is a racist dogwhistle?There's definitely a lot of that, but I also think that people aren't at all ideologically consistent. "Personal responsibility" means "not taking forms of government aid that seem demeaning to me," and there's very little rhyme or reason about what forms of government aid people view that way. Nobody thinks that they or their neighbors are being personally irresponsible if they send their kids to public schools, because that's a well-established form of government support that seems totally wholesome and great. There's basically no stigma about Medicare or Social Security, and I don't think there's much about Pell Grants. If we ever get a universal healthcare system, within ten years nobody will think that using it is violating their sense of "personal responsibility." In fact, despite a huge campaign to stigmatize it, we're quickly getting there with the Medicaid expansion and Obamacare subsidies. But we're in a transitional moment, so some people still see this new government program as a violation of personal responsibility.
It's an interesting question as to why some forms of state support, such as food and housing subsidies, continue to carry stigma. A lot of it is that those forms of government support are racially coded as being used by people of color, even though most recipients are white people.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:55 PM on March 19, 2017 [57 favorites]
The "700 contractors" thing is from a Jezebel/The Slot article that doesn't source that particular statement.
posted by thebrokedown at 3:57 PM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 3:57 PM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm reading that over 700 contractors have already "registered intent" re: building the shitty wall.
It's probably going to cost triple what they've proclaimed and be a massive source of graft and free money for years if it gets approved.
posted by PenDevil at 3:58 PM on March 19, 2017 [26 favorites]
It's probably going to cost triple what they've proclaimed and be a massive source of graft and free money for years if it gets approved.
posted by PenDevil at 3:58 PM on March 19, 2017 [26 favorites]
didn't it tacitly also suggest that "personal responsibility" is a racist dogwhistle?
I suspect the "personal responsibility" thing actually works in the other direction these days. It allows them to take their racial animus, and with a kind of guilt by association with liberals logic, spread it around quite broadly.
There's a second order effect of forcing overt sexism and racism underground for a couple decades, in that the imprecision of dogwhistle language exacerbates imprecision of thought, and leads to an ever-expanding out-group category. So now, under the banner of "personal responsibility," which definitely was originally coined for the fairly narrow purpose of racial victim-blaming, everyone is supposed to be responsible for the oppressions perpetrated against them. They're just now starting to notice that this campaign of carpet bombing is marching distressingly close to their own village.
That's great in a heighten-the-contradictions sort of way, which is to say, not very good at all. Still better than nothing, and much better than an alternative timeline with no civil rights movement forcing them to give up lynchings in favor of this "personal responsibility" bullshit.
posted by dirge at 3:59 PM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
I suspect the "personal responsibility" thing actually works in the other direction these days. It allows them to take their racial animus, and with a kind of guilt by association with liberals logic, spread it around quite broadly.
There's a second order effect of forcing overt sexism and racism underground for a couple decades, in that the imprecision of dogwhistle language exacerbates imprecision of thought, and leads to an ever-expanding out-group category. So now, under the banner of "personal responsibility," which definitely was originally coined for the fairly narrow purpose of racial victim-blaming, everyone is supposed to be responsible for the oppressions perpetrated against them. They're just now starting to notice that this campaign of carpet bombing is marching distressingly close to their own village.
That's great in a heighten-the-contradictions sort of way, which is to say, not very good at all. Still better than nothing, and much better than an alternative timeline with no civil rights movement forcing them to give up lynchings in favor of this "personal responsibility" bullshit.
posted by dirge at 3:59 PM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
The “700 contractors” thing is from a Jezebel/The Slot article that doesn't source that particular statement.
The list would seem to be here, at the RFP. To see it, however, you need to be able to login as government-affiliated buyer or a vender. As I am neither, no list for me :(
posted by Going To Maine at 4:03 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
The list would seem to be here, at the RFP. To see it, however, you need to be able to login as government-affiliated buyer or a vender. As I am neither, no list for me :(
posted by Going To Maine at 4:03 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's probably going to cost triple what they've proclaimed and be a massive source of graft and free money for years if it gets approved.
Wait, is this about the wall or Putin's olympic village? Same thing? Okay, just wanted to make sure.
posted by valkane at 4:05 PM on March 19, 2017
Wait, is this about the wall or Putin's olympic village? Same thing? Okay, just wanted to make sure.
posted by valkane at 4:05 PM on March 19, 2017
But props to Putin, at least his politically motivated money grab lets you ice skate and ski or rent a bed; all trumps does is let you play handball.
posted by valkane at 4:08 PM on March 19, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by valkane at 4:08 PM on March 19, 2017 [7 favorites]
A new thread and another drawing of Trump. This time trying to capture that slightest of slight chances concerning that moment that he might be realizing words actually have consequences. My god his blundering is absolutely epic.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 4:09 PM on March 19, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 4:09 PM on March 19, 2017 [42 favorites]
Healthcare.gov (I know, 'fake news') says the average cost of a three-day hospital stay is thirty thousand dollars.
Everybody line up on this side of the room who can be "personally responsible" to the tune of ten thousand bucks a day.
If pretty much nobody outside of Trump's cabinet can meet this standard in any meaningful way then maybe it's time to discard the stupid fucking ideas about "personal responsibility".
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:11 PM on March 19, 2017 [88 favorites]
Everybody line up on this side of the room who can be "personally responsible" to the tune of ten thousand bucks a day.
If pretty much nobody outside of Trump's cabinet can meet this standard in any meaningful way then maybe it's time to discard the stupid fucking ideas about "personal responsibility".
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:11 PM on March 19, 2017 [88 favorites]
Isn't the idea that illness is a moral failure? Personally responsible people don't get sick, because they don't smoke / eat poorly / work around sick people / get in car crashes.
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:14 PM on March 19, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:14 PM on March 19, 2017 [28 favorites]
I think they would say that you should magically personal responsibility yourself into a job with insurance. Which is not so easy to do if you're stuck in a place where there aren't such jobs.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:15 PM on March 19, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:15 PM on March 19, 2017 [12 favorites]
So the wall has to be 30 feet tall, aesthetically pleasing on one side at least and impenetrable in under an hour by any number of tools including acetylene torch. Sounds extremely expensive. This isn't cinder block and rebar we're talking about.
There was a goon in the Trumpwatch thread who works at a place that is likely to be quoting for the wall, he was talking numbers - I'll see if there was a good pithy quote. He said he found it personally repellent, but wallbuilders gonna wallbuild.
posted by Sebmojo at 4:17 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
There was a goon in the Trumpwatch thread who works at a place that is likely to be quoting for the wall, he was talking numbers - I'll see if there was a good pithy quote. He said he found it personally repellent, but wallbuilders gonna wallbuild.
posted by Sebmojo at 4:17 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
If pretty much nobody outside of Trump's cabinet can meet this standard in any meaningful way then maybe it's time to discard the stupid fucking ideas about "personal responsibility".
Saying that people should be "personally responsible" or get no healthcare is essentially saying that there should be a death sentence for poor financial planning or an unavoidable financial crisis. That's possibly overly exciting when combined with a society moving towards a gig economy in many areas.
posted by jaduncan at 4:19 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
Saying that people should be "personally responsible" or get no healthcare is essentially saying that there should be a death sentence for poor financial planning or an unavoidable financial crisis. That's possibly overly exciting when combined with a society moving towards a gig economy in many areas.
posted by jaduncan at 4:19 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
Tillerson is a dangerous and incompetent neophyte in the harsh world of international diplomacy. Some of his mistakes include allowing himself to be photographed while a DPRK solider was taking a photo of him. His lack of engagement with the media is troubling because he says that he has done deals all over the world and doesn't need to talk to the media while doing those deals. So he is not open to learning, a classic sign of incompetence. And as that Washington Post article on his visit to China revealed, he is dangerously casual in his use of language and the weight various phrases carry. Diplomacy is hard and complicated and demanding. Tillerson has already shown he is simply not up the job. The consequences of this are truly frightening.
posted by vac2003 at 4:20 PM on March 19, 2017 [78 favorites]
posted by vac2003 at 4:20 PM on March 19, 2017 [78 favorites]
White House installs political aides at Cabinet agencies to be Trump’s eyes and ears (WaPo):
The political appointee charged with keeping watch over Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Scott Pruitt and his aides has offered unsolicited advice so often that after just four weeks on the job, Pruitt has shut him out of many staff meetings, according to two senior administration officials.posted by peeedro at 4:20 PM on March 19, 2017 [40 favorites]
At the Pentagon, they’re privately calling the former Marine officer and fighter pilot who’s supposed to keep his eye on Defense Secretary Jim Mattis “the commissar,” according to a high-ranking defense official with knowledge of the situation. It’s a reference to Soviet-era Communist Party officials who were assigned to military units to ensure their commanders remained loyal.
Most members of President Trump’s Cabinet do not yet have leadership teams in place or even nominees for top deputies. But they do have an influential coterie of senior aides installed by the White House who are charged — above all — with monitoring the secretaries’ loyalty, according to eight officials in and outside the administration.
Here we go:
I can almost guarantee It's going to mostly be prefab steel fence beams embedded in drilled holes. There will be runs of concrete wall, but my bet is on precast panels locked into a cast in place trench. I don't see the solid wall areas being a large percentage of the length, though. Border Patrol per our conversations with them do not want to lose visibility of the other side.
posted by Sebmojo at 4:22 PM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
I can almost guarantee It's going to mostly be prefab steel fence beams embedded in drilled holes. There will be runs of concrete wall, but my bet is on precast panels locked into a cast in place trench. I don't see the solid wall areas being a large percentage of the length, though. Border Patrol per our conversations with them do not want to lose visibility of the other side.
posted by Sebmojo at 4:22 PM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
I can almost guarantee It's going to mostly be prefab steel fence beams embedded in drilled holes. There will be runs of concrete wall, but my bet is on precast panels locked into a cast in place trench. I don't see the solid wall areas being a large percentage of the length, though. Border Patrol per our conversations with them do not want to lose visibility of the other side.
Maybe they could have guard towers for the full Berlin Wall and Troubles-era Northern Ireland effect.
posted by jaduncan at 4:24 PM on March 19, 2017 [14 favorites]
Maybe they could have guard towers for the full Berlin Wall and Troubles-era Northern Ireland effect.
posted by jaduncan at 4:24 PM on March 19, 2017 [14 favorites]
Back in the 1890s there was an entrepreneur who regularly found fault with the work on his construction projects and then refused to pay: Dr. Henry H. Holmes.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:26 PM on March 19, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:26 PM on March 19, 2017 [39 favorites]
If pretty much nobody outside of Trump's cabinet can meet this standard in any meaningful way then maybe it's time to discard the stupid fucking ideas about "personal responsibility".
Nope, that's why you've gotta hope you're cute/blonde/photogenic and/or social media savvy so you can successfully crowdsource your care! Plenty of people have to resort to this already, but look for the death panel crew to suggest Kickstarter: An Official Partner In Your Healthcare!
posted by TwoStride at 4:29 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
Nope, that's why you've gotta hope you're cute/blonde/photogenic and/or social media savvy so you can successfully crowdsource your care! Plenty of people have to resort to this already, but look for the death panel crew to suggest Kickstarter: An Official Partner In Your Healthcare!
posted by TwoStride at 4:29 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
I mean. If they want the wall to be "effective," it will be sensors and drones and people in towers with machine guns, and then maybe a few places with some giant stupid dick metaphor of an actual wall as a goddamn tourist attraction for monsters
It will probably be more horrifying than I can imagine
posted by schadenfrau at 4:32 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
It will probably be more horrifying than I can imagine
posted by schadenfrau at 4:32 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
Judge In Hawaii Denies Feds’ Request To "Clarify" Order Against Travel Ban
“[T]here is nothing unclear about the scope of the Court’s order,” US District Judge Derrick Watson wrote — denying the Justice Department’s request to clarify whether his order had “intended” to halt enforcement of as much of the new executive order as it stated it had halted.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:33 PM on March 19, 2017 [35 favorites]
“[T]here is nothing unclear about the scope of the Court’s order,” US District Judge Derrick Watson wrote — denying the Justice Department’s request to clarify whether his order had “intended” to halt enforcement of as much of the new executive order as it stated it had halted.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:33 PM on March 19, 2017 [35 favorites]
Sebmojo, got a link?
Sure, it's in the somethingawful thread so it may be paywalled if you're not a goony goon.
posted by Sebmojo at 4:38 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sure, it's in the somethingawful thread so it may be paywalled if you're not a goony goon.
posted by Sebmojo at 4:38 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
If they want the wall to be "effective," it will be sensors and drones and people in towers with machine guns, and then maybe a few places with some giant stupid dick metaphor of an actual wall as a goddamn tourist attraction for monsters
Incidentally, Reveal -in both its podcast and on the web- has been providing a pretty thorough review on a rundown of atttitudes towards the wall, where a wall really isn’t feasible on the border (e.g. when it runs through a golf course), and where people actually found that drone patrols and sensors were more effective than any kind of physical border. It’s pretty interesting.
posted by Going To Maine at 4:39 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
Incidentally, Reveal -in both its podcast and on the web- has been providing a pretty thorough review on a rundown of atttitudes towards the wall, where a wall really isn’t feasible on the border (e.g. when it runs through a golf course), and where people actually found that drone patrols and sensors were more effective than any kind of physical border. It’s pretty interesting.
posted by Going To Maine at 4:39 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's not an official statement or anything, just a guy who works in the area talking about his thoughts on the likely construction methodology.
posted by Sebmojo at 4:39 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Sebmojo at 4:39 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's probably going to cost triple what they've proclaimed and be a massive source of graft and free money for years if it gets approved.
I am expecting that the bits that are completed for show will be registered to the contractor, and every caught border-crosser will be tracked to some section of the wall. Meanwhile, that contractor that will have payment withheld (because I'm totally expecting donny to withhold funds until completion and "proof of inviolability" of some crap) under threat of being prosecuted for "endangering american lives" and suddenly some building company with HQ on Trump Tower will get the contract to "fix it". I wouldn't be even surprised if a substancial part of the building companies running for those contracts are either shell companies or affiliated with the family.
posted by lmfsilva at 4:46 PM on March 19, 2017 [16 favorites]
I am expecting that the bits that are completed for show will be registered to the contractor, and every caught border-crosser will be tracked to some section of the wall. Meanwhile, that contractor that will have payment withheld (because I'm totally expecting donny to withhold funds until completion and "proof of inviolability" of some crap) under threat of being prosecuted for "endangering american lives" and suddenly some building company with HQ on Trump Tower will get the contract to "fix it". I wouldn't be even surprised if a substancial part of the building companies running for those contracts are either shell companies or affiliated with the family.
posted by lmfsilva at 4:46 PM on March 19, 2017 [16 favorites]
If the press can find out they've installed loyalty watchdog aides in the different agencies, you can bet that the nominees and their affiliated staff know it. Which is to say that instead of scaring them, I'm sure this reduces their internal loyalty while maintaining a pleasing veneer. The moment things go bad for Trump, these people will line up to smear him.
posted by constantinescharity at 4:48 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by constantinescharity at 4:48 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
If we don't take back the house in 2018 we are fucked.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:53 PM on March 19, 2017 [55 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 4:53 PM on March 19, 2017 [55 favorites]
for real, every day since the election i thank god that i am not a pyrokinetic
Every day since the election I've wished to god I was pyrokinetic. For absolute real.
posted by chris24 at 4:53 PM on March 19, 2017 [42 favorites]
Every day since the election I've wished to god I was pyrokinetic. For absolute real.
posted by chris24 at 4:53 PM on March 19, 2017 [42 favorites]
maybe a few places with some giant stupid dick metaphor of an actual wall as a goddamn tourist attraction for monsters
I'm now trying not to imagine the sort of person who'd take a vacation to the border wall, and spend a hundred bucks for an hour in an elevated sniper perch overlooking the border with his rifle, hoping to catch a "terrorist." I'm really trying not to imagine that he's brought his kids with him to teach them about "American Values," and marksmanship.
That'd be great stuff for a dystopian sci-fi novel, if it were a bit less plausible.
posted by dirge at 4:57 PM on March 19, 2017 [12 favorites]
I'm now trying not to imagine the sort of person who'd take a vacation to the border wall, and spend a hundred bucks for an hour in an elevated sniper perch overlooking the border with his rifle, hoping to catch a "terrorist." I'm really trying not to imagine that he's brought his kids with him to teach them about "American Values," and marksmanship.
That'd be great stuff for a dystopian sci-fi novel, if it were a bit less plausible.
posted by dirge at 4:57 PM on March 19, 2017 [12 favorites]
People are canceling their Iowa vacations because of Steve King's words.
See what you'll be missing.
posted by adamg at 5:04 PM on March 19, 2017 [34 favorites]
See what you'll be missing.
posted by adamg at 5:04 PM on March 19, 2017 [34 favorites]
What gives, there's not one mention of industrial corn on that Iowa tourism page. I would've thought corn mazes would be the #1 draw.
posted by contraption at 5:08 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by contraption at 5:08 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
Looks like RAGBRAI goes through King's district.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:12 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:12 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
Last week's episode of the Arms Control Wonk podcast is all about North Korea.
They are not convinced that, having few real options, the North Koreans won't go all out (i.e., nuclear) on day 2 or even 1. It's rather unaettling, but worth a listen to learn about the maps and the range arcs that belie the true targets of the launch drills.
posted by wenestvedt at 5:12 PM on March 19, 2017
They are not convinced that, having few real options, the North Koreans won't go all out (i.e., nuclear) on day 2 or even 1. It's rather unaettling, but worth a listen to learn about the maps and the range arcs that belie the true targets of the launch drills.
posted by wenestvedt at 5:12 PM on March 19, 2017
That'd be great stuff for a dystopian sci-fi novel, if it were a bit less plausible.
That's classic Black Mirror territory.
posted by jaduncan at 5:13 PM on March 19, 2017
That's classic Black Mirror territory.
posted by jaduncan at 5:13 PM on March 19, 2017
"That'd be great stuff for a dystopian sci-fi novel, if it were a bit less plausible."
I mean isn't this kind of the beginning of Game of Thrones where Tyrion visits the wall?
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:16 PM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
I mean isn't this kind of the beginning of Game of Thrones where Tyrion visits the wall?
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:16 PM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
I followed the "See what you'll be missing" link and handtoheartIsweartoGawd the second thing listed is Water Sports.
posted by wenestvedt at 5:18 PM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by wenestvedt at 5:18 PM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
From the Iowa article: Debi Durham, director of the Iowa Economic Development Authority Director, which oversees the tourism office, said she personally drafted an email to send to potential tourists who voice concerns. In it, she said King's comments did not reflect the views of Iowans or her department.
... except for the problem of the thousands of Iowans who literally voted for this racist shitbag time and time again. So yeah, Iowa, clean house with your elected officials or deserve to lose money, you decide.
posted by TwoStride at 5:21 PM on March 19, 2017 [25 favorites]
... except for the problem of the thousands of Iowans who literally voted for this racist shitbag time and time again. So yeah, Iowa, clean house with your elected officials or deserve to lose money, you decide.
posted by TwoStride at 5:21 PM on March 19, 2017 [25 favorites]
"I mean isn't this kind of the beginning of Game of Thrones where Tyrion visits the wall?"
Sorry, I should have contextualized my thinking ... every time Trump talks about any specifics of building the wall -- where, how tall, made of what -- and it's clear he's just making shit up and doesn't know anything about building, or walls, or borders, I think of the interview that GRRM gave where he admitted he didn't really have any idea how tall 600 feet was and probably would have taken the time to make the whole thing more realistic if he'd known someone would have to put it on film later on.
Trump's wall is basically GRRM's wall, with self-proclaimed border militia in place of corrupt Night Watch, a few decent border agents in place of good Night Watch, and tourists like Tyrion showing up to look over the wall at the poor suffering wildlings. (Summer is even coming, the season that belongs beyond the wall.)
Except right now it feels like a few White Walkers might be an improvement.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:22 PM on March 19, 2017 [8 favorites]
Sorry, I should have contextualized my thinking ... every time Trump talks about any specifics of building the wall -- where, how tall, made of what -- and it's clear he's just making shit up and doesn't know anything about building, or walls, or borders, I think of the interview that GRRM gave where he admitted he didn't really have any idea how tall 600 feet was and probably would have taken the time to make the whole thing more realistic if he'd known someone would have to put it on film later on.
Trump's wall is basically GRRM's wall, with self-proclaimed border militia in place of corrupt Night Watch, a few decent border agents in place of good Night Watch, and tourists like Tyrion showing up to look over the wall at the poor suffering wildlings. (Summer is even coming, the season that belongs beyond the wall.)
Except right now it feels like a few White Walkers might be an improvement.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:22 PM on March 19, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm reading that over 700 contractors have already "registered intent" re: building the shitty wall. I just hate everything we have become.
Is there any doubt that the wall will be built by one Trump's ( or his family's ) companies? It seems the whole thing is just a cover for grifting more money into their pockets. Kinda like the Iraq/Haliburton deal.
I mean IF it's built- hopefully it won't be.
posted by Liquidwolf at 5:23 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
Paul Ryan: Another one heads to President Trump’s desk. This legislation allows states to have drug testing to receive federal unemployment benefits.
'Cause it doesn't suck enough to just lose your job, they want to add a little extra humiliation to your life to make you totally miserable.
posted by octothorpe at 5:23 PM on March 19, 2017 [27 favorites]
'Cause it doesn't suck enough to just lose your job, they want to add a little extra humiliation to your life to make you totally miserable.
posted by octothorpe at 5:23 PM on March 19, 2017 [27 favorites]
Another one heads to President Trump’s desk. This legislation allows states to have drug testing to receive federal unemployment benefits.
Today at 11: Uptick in home invasions, drug users blamed.
posted by jaduncan at 5:25 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
Today at 11: Uptick in home invasions, drug users blamed.
posted by jaduncan at 5:25 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
have a nice song about The Boy From Mar-a-Lago .
Oh, that's lovely. From the title I was expecting something riffing on the Ad-libs (but much better known for the Manhattan Transfer cover) Boy From New York City, but this is much better.
posted by Naberius at 5:25 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh, that's lovely. From the title I was expecting something riffing on the Ad-libs (but much better known for the Manhattan Transfer cover) Boy From New York City, but this is much better.
posted by Naberius at 5:25 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
Here's an example picture.
Another illustration of the proposed wall. [fake]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:26 PM on March 19, 2017 [10 favorites]
Another illustration of the proposed wall. [fake]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:26 PM on March 19, 2017 [10 favorites]
This is dumb but apparently Newt Gingrich’s 2012 campaign treasurer was named Trevor Swindle. (Also he is now running a new, bad PAC.)
posted by Going To Maine at 5:26 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 5:26 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
I mean isn't this kind of the beginning of Game of Thrones where Tyrion visits the wall?
Dammit, you're right. For a second there, I thought I had a genuinely novel image in my head, but actually it's just a variation on every atavistic "come my Son, I'll show you how to kill the Others and become a Man" fantasy ever.
posted by dirge at 5:26 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
Dammit, you're right. For a second there, I thought I had a genuinely novel image in my head, but actually it's just a variation on every atavistic "come my Son, I'll show you how to kill the Others and become a Man" fantasy ever.
posted by dirge at 5:26 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
So yeah, Iowa, clean house with your elected officials or deserve to lose money, you decide.
They're very susceptible to con-men. I saw it in a musical.
posted by condour75 at 5:28 PM on March 19, 2017 [73 favorites]
They're very susceptible to con-men. I saw it in a musical.
posted by condour75 at 5:28 PM on March 19, 2017 [73 favorites]
"This legislation allows states to have drug testing to receive federal unemployment benefits. 'Cause it doesn't suck enough to lose your job, they want to add a little extra humiliation to your life."
I am okay with this as long as all members of Congress are subject to routine drug testing before they receive their paychecks, and must give up their job and pension if found to be using.
IIRC when Florida put this in place they caught hardly any welfare-receiving drug users but two state legislators got convicted of drug offenses in the program's first year (for unrelated, just being caught as a regular criminal, stuff) ... leading to a far higher rate of drug use among state legislators NOT subject to routine testing than among welfare recipients who were subject to it.
(Having spent years doing discipline for high schools, drugs are #richpeopleproblems. I mean eventually they'll make you poor and into a junkie, but that's the end game. At the beginning of the problem, you have to be able to afford the drugs. There was like an order of magnitude difference between drug use at our middle class high school (very high!) and at our poor high school (pretty low). Ditto drinking. Poor high school students were slightly more likely to be dealers because of the gang economy in the area, except that they didn't deal in school. Middle-class high school dealers dealt in school, because that's where the buyers were.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:29 PM on March 19, 2017 [106 favorites]
I am okay with this as long as all members of Congress are subject to routine drug testing before they receive their paychecks, and must give up their job and pension if found to be using.
IIRC when Florida put this in place they caught hardly any welfare-receiving drug users but two state legislators got convicted of drug offenses in the program's first year (for unrelated, just being caught as a regular criminal, stuff) ... leading to a far higher rate of drug use among state legislators NOT subject to routine testing than among welfare recipients who were subject to it.
(Having spent years doing discipline for high schools, drugs are #richpeopleproblems. I mean eventually they'll make you poor and into a junkie, but that's the end game. At the beginning of the problem, you have to be able to afford the drugs. There was like an order of magnitude difference between drug use at our middle class high school (very high!) and at our poor high school (pretty low). Ditto drinking. Poor high school students were slightly more likely to be dealers because of the gang economy in the area, except that they didn't deal in school. Middle-class high school dealers dealt in school, because that's where the buyers were.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:29 PM on March 19, 2017 [106 favorites]
If we don't take back the house in 2018 we are fucked
As opposed toooooo . . .
posted by petebest at 5:32 PM on March 19, 2017 [8 favorites]
As opposed toooooo . . .
posted by petebest at 5:32 PM on March 19, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm hoping the wall builder is actually a subversive and makes it miles and miles of linear feet of the world's biggest laser Floyd show.
That is to say, a sonic wall of "The Wall" with groovy lasers. A perpetual party!
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 5:36 PM on March 19, 2017 [7 favorites]
That is to say, a sonic wall of "The Wall" with groovy lasers. A perpetual party!
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 5:36 PM on March 19, 2017 [7 favorites]
There's also this gem of a billboard in Phoenix. Artist says it stays up as long as hitler is in the White House.
posted by yoga at 5:38 PM on March 19, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by yoga at 5:38 PM on March 19, 2017 [11 favorites]
I mean. If they want the wall to be "effective," it will be sensors and drones and people in towers with machine guns
don't forget the barbed wire and German Shepherds
posted by indubitable at 5:39 PM on March 19, 2017
don't forget the barbed wire and German Shepherds
posted by indubitable at 5:39 PM on March 19, 2017
Having spent years doing discipline for high schools, drugs are #richpeopleproblems. I mean eventually they'll make you poor and into a junkie, but that's the end game. At the beginning of the problem, you have to be able to afford the drugs.
My worry is more that people potentially a) get fired for failing a drugs test and then b) get denied federal unemployment benefits for failing a drugs test immediately after, or c) wait until they'd pass the test and beg/borrow/steal/survive in the meantime somehow.
That isn't how unemployment insurance is supposed to work.
posted by jaduncan at 5:40 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
My worry is more that people potentially a) get fired for failing a drugs test and then b) get denied federal unemployment benefits for failing a drugs test immediately after, or c) wait until they'd pass the test and beg/borrow/steal/survive in the meantime somehow.
That isn't how unemployment insurance is supposed to work.
posted by jaduncan at 5:40 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
Maybe we could just fortify the Great Wall of China.
#1. It's already laid out
#2. We'd saved money.
#3. It makes more freaking sense than building one here.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:45 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
#1. It's already laid out
#2. We'd saved money.
#3. It makes more freaking sense than building one here.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:45 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
via Greg Siskind (immigration attorney): CBP has denied boarding to a 17 year old Muslim girl -a Knoxville native - stranding her in Turkey until Wednesday. (family's FB post)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:45 PM on March 19, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:45 PM on March 19, 2017 [21 favorites]
Oh, and d) then get criminalised for - literally - stealing because that might be the only way to feed themselves or their child. Dependents are never really dealt with in the Ryan 'you brought it on yourself' model.
posted by jaduncan at 5:48 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by jaduncan at 5:48 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
If we don't take back the house in 2018 we are fucked.
It's been two months so far, and the USA has already been very badly damaged, but it's just an accelerated form of damage that has been going on for years.
Leaving domestic policies aside, the US government seems determined to destroy its structural advantages. For instance, the US dollar is the world's major reserve currency and consequently can print money (up to a point) without devaluing its currency. That can only last as long as the US doesn't default on its debt, which means that even contemplating that is suicidal. But that's what the Republicans were doing with their brinkmanship over the debt ceiling.
Another huge advantage is the USA's treaties with other nations. They protect the USA, by requiring other countries to come to its aid when attacked, and they give it strategic advantages by allowing it to base troops and equipment on their territory or pass through it as necessary. Other countries value these treaties and the relationship underlying them, and consequently have been willing to support the USA's military engagements. This willingness has been progressively damaged through the demands placed on it by US adventurism, and now Trump has called the treaties themselves into question. This is crazy on so many levels, especially since the orange dimwit is also sabre-rattling.
The USA is the home of the UN, and consequently has an unmatched ability to directly engage with diplomats and government officials. Its notorious surveillance may have damaged nations' willingness to engage on US soil, but what may really kill it off is the new US border regulation. Diplomatic staff haven't been threatened, as far as I know, but diplomats have families, employees, friends, and advisors who may not have diplomatic passports; they also are intimately involved in the networks of government and business officers from their countries and may increasingly prefer to conduct their meetings in friendlier countries.
Similarly, the USA is the base for the SWIFT network through which most inter-bank messages pass. If you trade between countries, or send money abroad, it's very likely that SWIFT was involved. I don't think anyone is surprised that the US uses this as a covert intelligence source or to pressure countries to adopt more transparent financial regulation, but as a result SWIFT started moving to a two (now three) center basis, with the other centers in Europe. Things like this surreal story from 2012 simply demonstrate that the US government has no internal restraint on the use of "soft" power.
Changes in foreign relations and international sentiment are slow to begin and hard to stop. Even if sane forces take control of the US legislature in 2018, a lot of the damage has already been done. NATO is valuable only so long as it is a credible counterweight to other countries' threats. You can see that European countries have already started discounting it; the process of building up militaries is slow and won't reverse any time soon, which means that those countries are less reliant on the USA - besides the waste of money and resources that militarism involves, of course. China's economy is huge, and growing, and only people's fears of its sovereign risk have prevented it taking a greater role on world financial markets. But if the USA keeps on demonstrating its own risk of default, why wouldn't people hedge their bets by keeping some money in Chinese bonds, thereby strengthening the Chinese government's position in foreign relations? There are just so many ways in which the US is squandering its advantages and making the whole world a crappier place.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:48 PM on March 19, 2017 [123 favorites]
It's been two months so far, and the USA has already been very badly damaged, but it's just an accelerated form of damage that has been going on for years.
Leaving domestic policies aside, the US government seems determined to destroy its structural advantages. For instance, the US dollar is the world's major reserve currency and consequently can print money (up to a point) without devaluing its currency. That can only last as long as the US doesn't default on its debt, which means that even contemplating that is suicidal. But that's what the Republicans were doing with their brinkmanship over the debt ceiling.
Another huge advantage is the USA's treaties with other nations. They protect the USA, by requiring other countries to come to its aid when attacked, and they give it strategic advantages by allowing it to base troops and equipment on their territory or pass through it as necessary. Other countries value these treaties and the relationship underlying them, and consequently have been willing to support the USA's military engagements. This willingness has been progressively damaged through the demands placed on it by US adventurism, and now Trump has called the treaties themselves into question. This is crazy on so many levels, especially since the orange dimwit is also sabre-rattling.
The USA is the home of the UN, and consequently has an unmatched ability to directly engage with diplomats and government officials. Its notorious surveillance may have damaged nations' willingness to engage on US soil, but what may really kill it off is the new US border regulation. Diplomatic staff haven't been threatened, as far as I know, but diplomats have families, employees, friends, and advisors who may not have diplomatic passports; they also are intimately involved in the networks of government and business officers from their countries and may increasingly prefer to conduct their meetings in friendlier countries.
Similarly, the USA is the base for the SWIFT network through which most inter-bank messages pass. If you trade between countries, or send money abroad, it's very likely that SWIFT was involved. I don't think anyone is surprised that the US uses this as a covert intelligence source or to pressure countries to adopt more transparent financial regulation, but as a result SWIFT started moving to a two (now three) center basis, with the other centers in Europe. Things like this surreal story from 2012 simply demonstrate that the US government has no internal restraint on the use of "soft" power.
Changes in foreign relations and international sentiment are slow to begin and hard to stop. Even if sane forces take control of the US legislature in 2018, a lot of the damage has already been done. NATO is valuable only so long as it is a credible counterweight to other countries' threats. You can see that European countries have already started discounting it; the process of building up militaries is slow and won't reverse any time soon, which means that those countries are less reliant on the USA - besides the waste of money and resources that militarism involves, of course. China's economy is huge, and growing, and only people's fears of its sovereign risk have prevented it taking a greater role on world financial markets. But if the USA keeps on demonstrating its own risk of default, why wouldn't people hedge their bets by keeping some money in Chinese bonds, thereby strengthening the Chinese government's position in foreign relations? There are just so many ways in which the US is squandering its advantages and making the whole world a crappier place.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:48 PM on March 19, 2017 [123 favorites]
don't forget the barbed wire and German Shepherds
also whatever those sound cannon things are that they hit journalists with for trying to get close to that Hillary fundraiser last year
posted by indubitable at 5:50 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
also whatever those sound cannon things are that they hit journalists with for trying to get close to that Hillary fundraiser last year
posted by indubitable at 5:50 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
"My worry is more that people potentially a) get fired for failing a drugs test and then b) get denied federal unemployment benefits for failing a drugs test immediately after, or c) wait until they'd pass the test and beg/borrow/steal/survive in the meantime somehow. That isn't how unemployment insurance is supposed to work."
Well, yes, it's a terrible and stupid idea. Which is why you should tie it to Congressional drug testing and see how long it survives. :) It's more an ironic suggestion than a real one but sometimes doing that sort of shit actually can sink terrible legislation.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:54 PM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well, yes, it's a terrible and stupid idea. Which is why you should tie it to Congressional drug testing and see how long it survives. :) It's more an ironic suggestion than a real one but sometimes doing that sort of shit actually can sink terrible legislation.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:54 PM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
That isn't how unemployment insurance is supposed to work.
Well, yeah, that's obviously exactly the point. If you give people real unemployment insurance, they might choose to quit instead of submitting to whatever shit their employer chooses to dish out. And that would be an infringement upon the God-given freedom of the employer to impose arbitrary and capricious conditions of employment. It's right there in the Constitution under, ah, something... State's Rights! Corporations are People!
posted by dirge at 5:56 PM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
Well, yeah, that's obviously exactly the point. If you give people real unemployment insurance, they might choose to quit instead of submitting to whatever shit their employer chooses to dish out. And that would be an infringement upon the God-given freedom of the employer to impose arbitrary and capricious conditions of employment. It's right there in the Constitution under, ah, something... State's Rights! Corporations are People!
posted by dirge at 5:56 PM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
Oh, Pax American is dead. I meant more 2018 as our last chance to stop a literal Fourth Reich.
My gut feeling is that the inertia of civil society will carry the muddling middle along for a while, until something very bad happens. And climate change is coming. Economic decline is coming. Public health crises are coming. Something terrible will happen.
And at that point, authoritarianism will have gained enough momentum on its own, and it won't just be divide and conquer anymore. They won't just terrorize minority groups when they can get away with it. It will be everyone, all the time.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:01 PM on March 19, 2017 [14 favorites]
My gut feeling is that the inertia of civil society will carry the muddling middle along for a while, until something very bad happens. And climate change is coming. Economic decline is coming. Public health crises are coming. Something terrible will happen.
And at that point, authoritarianism will have gained enough momentum on its own, and it won't just be divide and conquer anymore. They won't just terrorize minority groups when they can get away with it. It will be everyone, all the time.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:01 PM on March 19, 2017 [14 favorites]
Trump budget chief who wants to cut Meals on Wheels says he is sacrificing by giving up business cards
posted by Room 641-A at 6:03 PM on March 19, 2017 [87 favorites]
Mulvaney agreed that he knew the bill would hurt children and prevent them from having access to nutritional food from organizations like Meals on Wheels, but he wants people to know he’s suffering too.For the record, John Dickerson doesn't even blink an eye at that statement, let alone call him out for it.
“Yes,” he began. “I don’t have a business card to give to you today, John, because, at the Office of Management and Budget, we have to pay for our own business cards. So it does start at home but it’s already started.”
posted by Room 641-A at 6:03 PM on March 19, 2017 [87 favorites]
And at that point, authoritarianism will have gained enough momentum on its own, and it won't just be divide and conquer anymore.
You know, I'm not sure this is true. Trust in authority has been almost completely destroyed in America. I don't think an actual authoritarian regime can exist in here without being able to keep the people safe and fed. And with the political, military, and agricultural instability America has sown, I don't think either of those are likely. One homeland war or one famine or one widespread logistics disruption is all it'd take for support for any regime to dissolve completely, and those are becoming all but certain under the ridiculous leadership we have.
Which means, I suspect, that we have a much worse fate in store for us.
posted by ragtag at 6:10 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
You know, I'm not sure this is true. Trust in authority has been almost completely destroyed in America. I don't think an actual authoritarian regime can exist in here without being able to keep the people safe and fed. And with the political, military, and agricultural instability America has sown, I don't think either of those are likely. One homeland war or one famine or one widespread logistics disruption is all it'd take for support for any regime to dissolve completely, and those are becoming all but certain under the ridiculous leadership we have.
Which means, I suspect, that we have a much worse fate in store for us.
posted by ragtag at 6:10 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
For the record, John Dickerson doesn't even blink an eye at that statement, let alone call him out for it.
Just once I'd like one of these "journalists" to just look at them deadpan and say "Are you a fucking idiot?"
posted by Talez at 6:11 PM on March 19, 2017 [79 favorites]
Just once I'd like one of these "journalists" to just look at them deadpan and say "Are you a fucking idiot?"
posted by Talez at 6:11 PM on March 19, 2017 [79 favorites]
I'd prefer "Dude...how high are you right now?"
posted by uosuaq at 6:31 PM on March 19, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 6:31 PM on March 19, 2017 [13 favorites]
I find myself very interested in the particular budget line item that all of the Mar-A-Lago flights are falling under. What does that particular budget item look like on the balance sheet? How does that allocation work out? It’s some aggregate of secret service hours, Air Force One fuel, and other things, but I’m really intrigued. It seems like a bite-sized take on one particular wasteful facet of this administration.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:41 PM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 6:41 PM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
I just hate everything we have become.
The article about the southern LEO who was detained by Customs/Border Patrol (and one guess why) quoted him succinctly summing it up:
“This country now feels cold, unwelcoming, and in the beginning stages of a country that is isolating itself from the rest of the world and its own people in an unprecedented fashion,” Aden said.
posted by NorthernLite at 6:47 PM on March 19, 2017 [36 favorites]
The article about the southern LEO who was detained by Customs/Border Patrol (and one guess why) quoted him succinctly summing it up:
“This country now feels cold, unwelcoming, and in the beginning stages of a country that is isolating itself from the rest of the world and its own people in an unprecedented fashion,” Aden said.
posted by NorthernLite at 6:47 PM on March 19, 2017 [36 favorites]
John Dickerson
Dickerson is so inured to the avalanches of bullshit that I don't think he experiences lies the same way as other people do. It's amazing to hear him rationalize things on Slate Political Gabfest. He's got this rep as a savvy historian of politics but he seems to have missed the whole liars and scoundrels part of American political history.
posted by dis_integration at 6:56 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
Dickerson is so inured to the avalanches of bullshit that I don't think he experiences lies the same way as other people do. It's amazing to hear him rationalize things on Slate Political Gabfest. He's got this rep as a savvy historian of politics but he seems to have missed the whole liars and scoundrels part of American political history.
posted by dis_integration at 6:56 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
I just hate everything we have become<>
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:57 PM on March 19, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:57 PM on March 19, 2017 [19 favorites]
The city of Palm Beach should do their own Noriega style psy-ops siege of Merde-a-GoGo. Only instead of David Bowie, blast the Russian national anthem on repeat.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 6:59 PM on March 19, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 6:59 PM on March 19, 2017 [22 favorites]
Frank Rich in New York Magazine: No Sympathy for the Hillbilly.
posted by Justinian at 7:08 PM on March 19, 2017 [80 favorites]
Democrats need to stop trying to feel everyone’s pain, and hold on to their own anger.Yup. No, I don't need to be more empathetic to uneducated white racists.
posted by Justinian at 7:08 PM on March 19, 2017 [80 favorites]
Yeah, I don't think that there's enough tourism revenue in Iowa for a tourism boycott to be super effective. (Also, the main tourist destinations, such as they are, are mostly outside King's district.) In the unlikely event that you were planning to spend time this summer at Lake Okoboji, which is in King's district, you could go ahead and cancel.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:12 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:12 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
I find myself very interested in the particular budget line item that all of the Mar-A-Lago flights are falling under
That's classified.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 7:13 PM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
That's classified.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 7:13 PM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yup. No, I don't need to be more empathetic to uneducated white racists.
I get what you're feeling, and it's a feeling both justifiable and your right to express, but isn't "uneducated" an awfully classist pejorative?
posted by Apocryphon at 7:18 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
I get what you're feeling, and it's a feeling both justifiable and your right to express, but isn't "uneducated" an awfully classist pejorative?
posted by Apocryphon at 7:18 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
Democrats May Be Botching This Supreme Court Confirmation Fight
Chalk it up to Trump’s chaotic administration, or to Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer’s low-key approach. Democrats just haven’t treated Gorsuch’s nomination as the kind of high-profile ideological battle that Supreme Court choices traditionally bring about. Even in the days leading up the hearing, it’s felt more like an afterthought on Capitol Hill
What do we want? Surrender! When do we want it? Next time!
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:19 PM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
Chalk it up to Trump’s chaotic administration, or to Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer’s low-key approach. Democrats just haven’t treated Gorsuch’s nomination as the kind of high-profile ideological battle that Supreme Court choices traditionally bring about. Even in the days leading up the hearing, it’s felt more like an afterthought on Capitol Hill
What do we want? Surrender! When do we want it? Next time!
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:19 PM on March 19, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm now trying not to imagine the sort of person who'd take a vacation to the border wall,
I worked for him. Well, he had a "Minutemen" hat and donated to that organization.
"Paranoid" wouldn't have done him justice.
posted by notsnot at 7:19 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
I worked for him. Well, he had a "Minutemen" hat and donated to that organization.
"Paranoid" wouldn't have done him justice.
posted by notsnot at 7:19 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
Nobody thinks that they or their neighbors are being personally irresponsible if they send their kids to public schools, because that's a well-established form of government support that seems totally wholesome and great. There's basically no stigma about Medicare or Social Security, and I don't think there's much about Pell Grants.
An article in Forbes that pretty much says the same. It really explained a lot of things for me.
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:20 PM on March 19, 2017 [33 favorites]
An article in Forbes that pretty much says the same. It really explained a lot of things for me.
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:20 PM on March 19, 2017 [33 favorites]
From that Frank Rich article (quoted by Rich; he doesn't agree with this):
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:22 PM on March 19, 2017 [17 favorites]
“The best advice I’ve seen so far for Democrats is the recommendation that hipsters move to Iowa,” Williams writes — or to any other location in the American plains where “shockingly high numbers of working-class men are unemployed or on disability, fueling a wave of despair deaths in the form of the opioid epidemic.”That's just silly. The unemployment rate in Iowa is 3.3%, well below the national average. I did move to Iowa, and it's really not some opioid-addled wasteland of misery and gloom.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:22 PM on March 19, 2017 [17 favorites]
I get what you're feeling, and it's a feeling both justifiable and your right to express, but isn't "uneducated" an awfully classist pejorative?
Less educated? Non-college? What's the better way to phrase it? Trump's base is racist white people without a college education.
posted by Justinian at 7:23 PM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
Less educated? Non-college? What's the better way to phrase it? Trump's base is racist white people without a college education.
posted by Justinian at 7:23 PM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
Mod note: Jesus, Mary, and Holy Saint Joseph, people, RELOAD THE PAGE before responding to the Office Space derail, IT IS ALL DELETED.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 7:24 PM on March 19, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 7:24 PM on March 19, 2017 [28 favorites]
Chalk it up to Trump’s chaotic administration, or to Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer’s low-key approach
Thank god Schumer hasn't done anything that would run the risk of Trump becoming anti-Dem or extremely racist. I wouldn't want to live in a world where that the President was that way.
posted by jaduncan at 7:24 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
Thank god Schumer hasn't done anything that would run the risk of Trump becoming anti-Dem or extremely racist. I wouldn't want to live in a world where that the President was that way.
posted by jaduncan at 7:24 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump's base is racist white people without a college education.
I can provide a list of people I know who not only went to college but graduated with a Bachelor's or higher who are Trump's base.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 7:27 PM on March 19, 2017 [16 favorites]
I can provide a list of people I know who not only went to college but graduated with a Bachelor's or higher who are Trump's base.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 7:27 PM on March 19, 2017 [16 favorites]
They may have voted for him but that's not what "base" means!
posted by Justinian at 7:28 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:28 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
And that's part of the problem. They went to college, they followed the 'rules' and yet they're still left behind as well.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 7:29 PM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 7:29 PM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
His base is also a shitload of suburban white people who have perfectly good jobs, but are still pretty fucking racist. Or don't mind voting for a racist if he promises to lower their taxes. Let's not let them off.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:30 PM on March 19, 2017 [49 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:30 PM on March 19, 2017 [49 favorites]
Seconding the article that maggiemaggie linked to above, it is a good read (despite being from Forbes).
posted by splitpeasoup at 7:32 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by splitpeasoup at 7:32 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
Less educated? Non-college? What's the better way to phrase it? Trump's base is racist white people without a college education.
Ignorant. Every literate person with access to a library and/or the internet has had the opportunity to educate themselves. Trump voters are willfully ignorant.
posted by Blue Genie at 7:33 PM on March 19, 2017 [35 favorites]
Ignorant. Every literate person with access to a library and/or the internet has had the opportunity to educate themselves. Trump voters are willfully ignorant.
posted by Blue Genie at 7:33 PM on March 19, 2017 [35 favorites]
Can't we just call them "stupid"?
posted by The otter lady at 7:37 PM on March 19, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by The otter lady at 7:37 PM on March 19, 2017 [14 favorites]
“Yes,” he began. “I don’t have a business card to give to you today, John, because, at the Office of Management and Budget, we have to pay for our own business cards. So it does start at home but it’s already started.”
Since the GOP is on its "run government like a business" hobbyhorse, someone should warn them that "the company will no longer pay for business cards!" is one of the early warning signs of bad management.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:40 PM on March 19, 2017 [103 favorites]
Since the GOP is on its "run government like a business" hobbyhorse, someone should warn them that "the company will no longer pay for business cards!" is one of the early warning signs of bad management.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:40 PM on March 19, 2017 [103 favorites]
I'm on board for "stupid" since it won't unfairly target white people who didn't go to college and are repulsed by Trump. So... No, I don't need to be more empathetic to uneducated stupid white racists.
posted by Justinian at 7:43 PM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:43 PM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
How about we go with "willfully ignorant"? I wouldn't want to lump anybody in with these people unless they really worked at it.
posted by dirge at 7:46 PM on March 19, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by dirge at 7:46 PM on March 19, 2017 [20 favorites]
"Personal responsibility" seems to be something peddled by those who are doing Quite Alright Thank You, and who can afford to be personally responsible. Anyone who isn't is obviously, simply, not being responsible.
And if those who are doing Quite Alright should somehow find themselves not doing so, then it is obviously the fault of Them, the forces of darkness who are sabotaging everything.
In the UK we have the Daily Mail, who seem to flip-flop between outrage at government (and European) meddling and demands that "someone should do something!" Somehow, though, it is never the ones doing the shouting who ought to be doing something...
posted by 43rdAnd9th at 7:47 PM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
And if those who are doing Quite Alright should somehow find themselves not doing so, then it is obviously the fault of Them, the forces of darkness who are sabotaging everything.
In the UK we have the Daily Mail, who seem to flip-flop between outrage at government (and European) meddling and demands that "someone should do something!" Somehow, though, it is never the ones doing the shouting who ought to be doing something...
posted by 43rdAnd9th at 7:47 PM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
The hard thing for DPRK is that even if their nuclear sites are bombed they have to go big or go home
Trucks. Most if not all of the recent missile firings used truck-mounted launchers & were shot from locations across the country. We don't think they have payloads small enough to fit in them but sooner or later they will. When they do their missile launch teams will already have had all the training they need from all the test firings. They're betting big on survivability for a retaliatory strike.
posted by scalefree at 7:52 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trucks. Most if not all of the recent missile firings used truck-mounted launchers & were shot from locations across the country. We don't think they have payloads small enough to fit in them but sooner or later they will. When they do their missile launch teams will already have had all the training they need from all the test firings. They're betting big on survivability for a retaliatory strike.
posted by scalefree at 7:52 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
So. VistaPrint sells 500 business cards for $9.99 (before promos or coupons.) Maybe people could help a director out by ordering some for him. Just make sure to proofread first! It would be awful if he got boxes of business cards reading "Mick Mulvaney, Director, Office of Fucking Assholes.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:52 PM on March 19, 2017 [89 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 7:52 PM on March 19, 2017 [89 favorites]
I was thinking something similar, Room641! Perfect opportunity, indeed.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 7:55 PM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 7:55 PM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
also whatever those sound cannon things are
LRADs
Turns out, not so rad
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:56 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
LRADs
Turns out, not so rad
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:56 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ignorant. Every literate person with access to a library and/or the internet has had the opportunity to educate themselves.
"Ignorant" implies that education will somehow change minds. We have an entire thread right now arguing otherwise.
Though, hell, if we want to be assholes:
They went to college, they followed the 'rules' and yet they're still left behind as well.
"Underachieving white racists" might be an accurate description.
Also, it's possible for a minority group to both be oppressed *and* be bigoted. This is a known phenomenon, and it seems to be something we see these days with uneducated white people.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 7:57 PM on March 19, 2017 [8 favorites]
"Ignorant" implies that education will somehow change minds. We have an entire thread right now arguing otherwise.
Though, hell, if we want to be assholes:
They went to college, they followed the 'rules' and yet they're still left behind as well.
"Underachieving white racists" might be an accurate description.
Also, it's possible for a minority group to both be oppressed *and* be bigoted. This is a known phenomenon, and it seems to be something we see these days with uneducated white people.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 7:57 PM on March 19, 2017 [8 favorites]
"Personal responsibility" seems to be something peddled by those who are doing Quite Alright Thank You, and who can afford to be personally responsible.
People who go on about "personal responsibility" are people who do not comprehend decision fatigue. I, as it happens, am doing Quite Alright at the moment, but I've been there, and if me-now could time travel to give some advice to me-then, me-now would first suit up in riot gear, or better yet just skip the trip for both our sakes.
posted by dirge at 7:59 PM on March 19, 2017 [7 favorites]
People who go on about "personal responsibility" are people who do not comprehend decision fatigue. I, as it happens, am doing Quite Alright at the moment, but I've been there, and if me-now could time travel to give some advice to me-then, me-now would first suit up in riot gear, or better yet just skip the trip for both our sakes.
posted by dirge at 7:59 PM on March 19, 2017 [7 favorites]
How labeling my organization a hate group shuts down public debate
posted by futz at 8:08 PM on March 19, 2017
posted by futz at 8:08 PM on March 19, 2017
In my experience, the phrase "personal responsibility" is always used to point out other people's responsibility, never one's own, which really confused me at first because I assumed that anyone talking about personal responsibility took it seriously.
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:09 PM on March 19, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:09 PM on March 19, 2017 [23 favorites]
From the above, regarding hate groups:
Yet the SPLC’s protestations of neutrality are false. It is an integral part of the immigration-expansion coalition, as even the briefest look at the “Immigrant Justice” page on its website will confirm.
Right.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 8:11 PM on March 19, 2017 [13 favorites]
Yet the SPLC’s protestations of neutrality are false. It is an integral part of the immigration-expansion coalition, as even the briefest look at the “Immigrant Justice” page on its website will confirm.
Right.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 8:11 PM on March 19, 2017 [13 favorites]
VistaPrint sells 500 business cards for $9.99
And it's a nice little way to say "welcome, you're officially a member of the team!" at something like 0.4% of employee on-boarding costs, to just make up a number. And the cost to gather a bunch of executives for 15 minutes to make the momentous decision to stop issuing business cards is going to swamp the savings for years. And demonstrates quite clearly that they haven't got any better ideas to work on.
To bring it back to Trump, either Mulvaney is lying about this small, stupid thing, or some idiot actually wasted the time and energy necessary to actually do it. Also, is Mulvaney attempting to convince us that this is both important enough to remark on, and also not important enough for him to shell out $9.99 out-of-pocket to correct?
posted by dirge at 8:11 PM on March 19, 2017 [13 favorites]
And it's a nice little way to say "welcome, you're officially a member of the team!" at something like 0.4% of employee on-boarding costs, to just make up a number. And the cost to gather a bunch of executives for 15 minutes to make the momentous decision to stop issuing business cards is going to swamp the savings for years. And demonstrates quite clearly that they haven't got any better ideas to work on.
To bring it back to Trump, either Mulvaney is lying about this small, stupid thing, or some idiot actually wasted the time and energy necessary to actually do it. Also, is Mulvaney attempting to convince us that this is both important enough to remark on, and also not important enough for him to shell out $9.99 out-of-pocket to correct?
posted by dirge at 8:11 PM on March 19, 2017 [13 favorites]
I will pitch in for some business cards for Mulvaney
It should be very simple, just something like "Mulvaney, Shit Heel"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:12 PM on March 19, 2017 [12 favorites]
It should be very simple, just something like "Mulvaney, Shit Heel"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:12 PM on March 19, 2017 [12 favorites]
Well holy shit. If this is true, Obama's unleashing the hounds (on mobile, forgive link).
Occupy Democrats - Expose Trump
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:13 PM on March 19, 2017 [16 favorites]
Occupy Democrats - Expose Trump
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:13 PM on March 19, 2017 [16 favorites]
It should be very simple, just something like "Mulvaney, Shit Heel"
He is fond of saying that revoking meals on wheels etc "is the compassionate thing to do". I'd like to see a list of those compassionate ideas of his on the card somewhere.
posted by futz at 8:16 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
He is fond of saying that revoking meals on wheels etc "is the compassionate thing to do". I'd like to see a list of those compassionate ideas of his on the card somewhere.
posted by futz at 8:16 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
I will pitch in for some business cards for Mulvaney
Actually, this is a fantastic idea. How do we set something up so people can easily send business cards to Mulvaney with the job title of their choice?
posted by dirge at 8:17 PM on March 19, 2017 [8 favorites]
Actually, this is a fantastic idea. How do we set something up so people can easily send business cards to Mulvaney with the job title of their choice?
posted by dirge at 8:17 PM on March 19, 2017 [8 favorites]
(Thanks for fixing, kind mod-person 😊)
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:24 PM on March 19, 2017
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:24 PM on March 19, 2017
Mick Mulvaney
Inhuman Granny-Starving Ghoul
On Bone stock, in Silian Rail
posted by Cookiebastard at 8:24 PM on March 19, 2017 [16 favorites]
Inhuman Granny-Starving Ghoul
On Bone stock, in Silian Rail
posted by Cookiebastard at 8:24 PM on March 19, 2017 [16 favorites]
How labeling my organization a hate group shuts down public debate
I can't comment about what constitutes a hate group, but even the right-wing Cato Institute thinks that CIS puts out biased information, and Media Matters slams them even harder.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:32 PM on March 19, 2017 [13 favorites]
I can't comment about what constitutes a hate group, but even the right-wing Cato Institute thinks that CIS puts out biased information, and Media Matters slams them even harder.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:32 PM on March 19, 2017 [13 favorites]
If the Center for Immigration Studies doesn't want to be thought of as a hate group, maybe they could stop sending out articles by white nationalists in their newsletters? Like, if you're really opposed to that sort of thing, you'd affirmatively take steps to try to prevent it from happening again?
posted by zachlipton at 8:32 PM on March 19, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:32 PM on March 19, 2017 [33 favorites]
WELP, I'm no graphic designer but I do know how to use Word, and I have the kind of expertise and professionalism that totally qualifies me to work in the Trump administration! I was so sad to read that Mick Mulvaney can't afford business cards that I flew into action and whipped him up some of my own! I'm going to be faxing them to the Office of Management and Budget at 202-395-3888. I know he'll still have to cut them up to use, gosh I hope the OMB still can afford scissors. I hope he enjoys them!
posted by supercrayon at 8:41 PM on March 19, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by supercrayon at 8:41 PM on March 19, 2017 [42 favorites]
Margaret Sullivan, WaPo: Tracking the special treatment media get when they play nice with the White House
With this uplifting example, I inaugurate an occasional feature: Access Watch, tracking the special treatment — phone calls, interviews, perhaps the lone press seat on the secretary of state’s plane — that can result when media people play nice.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:44 PM on March 19, 2017 [25 favorites]
True, it is not the proper job of journalists to provide favorable coverage but rather to hold powerful figures accountable.
But that doesn’t get you far these days, at least in terms of access.
So we’ll be taking note of what does.
Obama's unleashing the hounds
Occupy Democrats - Expose Trump
This is what I've been waiting for. "Accuse me of operating a shadow government, and I'll show you what broad-daylight, fuck-you former government can do."
Gobama.
posted by Rykey at 8:46 PM on March 19, 2017 [33 favorites]
Occupy Democrats - Expose Trump
This is what I've been waiting for. "Accuse me of operating a shadow government, and I'll show you what broad-daylight, fuck-you former government can do."
Gobama.
posted by Rykey at 8:46 PM on March 19, 2017 [33 favorites]
Well holy shit. If this is true, Obama's unleashing the hounds
Well, the group certainly seems real (real enough to have a website anyway) but I don't see any kind of claim or indication that Obama is involved. Of course, I suspect that the Evil/Stupid Alliance will spin this as proof of Obama's meddling, or evidence of his "shadow government" in action.
Regardless, I wish them luck. There is as much evidence of 45's treachery, corruption, and incompetence as there is willingness to look at it. Which is the problem, of course. His supporters are unwilling to look, or unable to see. I doubt this group can impact that fact much, but we don't need to concern ourselves with changing the minds of the mindless. What we need to concern ourselves with is removing them from power by any means necessary, and this could be one such avenue.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 8:47 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
Well, the group certainly seems real (real enough to have a website anyway) but I don't see any kind of claim or indication that Obama is involved. Of course, I suspect that the Evil/Stupid Alliance will spin this as proof of Obama's meddling, or evidence of his "shadow government" in action.
Regardless, I wish them luck. There is as much evidence of 45's treachery, corruption, and incompetence as there is willingness to look at it. Which is the problem, of course. His supporters are unwilling to look, or unable to see. I doubt this group can impact that fact much, but we don't need to concern ourselves with changing the minds of the mindless. What we need to concern ourselves with is removing them from power by any means necessary, and this could be one such avenue.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 8:47 PM on March 19, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yes, sorry, it's Obama's former lawyers. Still, it's good to know that they will be watching closely. It is some hope for troubled times.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:52 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:52 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
For some comic relief: the Boy from Mar-a-Lago.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:55 PM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 8:55 PM on March 19, 2017 [5 favorites]
I wish he'd hurry up and annoy Canada. Trudeau, you're screwing this up
Don't get your hopes up. Between the legitimate fear of pissing of our #1 commercial partner and the fact that Trudeau is not the brave leader some people think he is (see electoral reform). Opposition won't come from the north.
posted by coust at 9:07 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
Don't get your hopes up. Between the legitimate fear of pissing of our #1 commercial partner and the fact that Trudeau is not the brave leader some people think he is (see electoral reform). Opposition won't come from the north.
posted by coust at 9:07 PM on March 19, 2017 [1 favorite]
A new thread and another drawing of Trump.
I had no idea Stephen Gammell did political cartoons under the pseudonym "Grant Mercs." You learn something every day!
posted by byanyothername at 9:11 PM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
I had no idea Stephen Gammell did political cartoons under the pseudonym "Grant Mercs." You learn something every day!
posted by byanyothername at 9:11 PM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
Opposition won't come from the north.
The other day I was talking to someone about Canada and our relationship to the States, and they said something along the lines of "You know how when a bully is beating up someone, there's sometimes that other kid who is standing there, watching, and holding the bully's coat? That's us."
posted by mrjohnmuller at 9:21 PM on March 19, 2017 [15 favorites]
The other day I was talking to someone about Canada and our relationship to the States, and they said something along the lines of "You know how when a bully is beating up someone, there's sometimes that other kid who is standing there, watching, and holding the bully's coat? That's us."
posted by mrjohnmuller at 9:21 PM on March 19, 2017 [15 favorites]
Three columns the late Jimmy Breslin wrote about Trump, in 1990, 1989, and 1988. Parts of them could have been written yesterday.
1988: Trump, in the crinkling of an eye, senses better than anyone the insecurity of people, that nobody knows whether anything is good or bad until they are told, and he is quite willing to tell them immediately. His instinct appears to tell him that people crumble quickly at the first show of bravado, particularly members of the media, which is the plural of mediocre.posted by monospace at 9:35 PM on March 19, 2017 [56 favorites]
1990: All Trump has to do is stick to the rules on which he was raised by his father in the County of Queens:Never use your own money. Steal a good idea and say it's your own. Do anything to get publicity. Remember that everybody can be bought.The trouble with Trump's father was that he was a totally naive man. He had no idea that you could buy the whole news reporting business in New York City with a return phone call.
1989: It would be comforting if [...] Trump was doing it the old way, by having half the reporters on a payroll someplace. But the news business today is so utterly dishonest that the people are below taking bribes. Instead, Trump buys them with a smile, a phone call or a display of wealth that so excites these poor fools that they cannot wait to herald his brilliance.
"He let me see his yacht!"
Those quotes should remind us all how much the blame the "liberal media" deserves for helping to create the monster named Donald Trump. His main frustration with the same media entities today isn't that they can no longer be manipulated but that he can't pull it off anymore. In fact, even the "Pro-Trump" media these days is not so much manipulated BY him as he is manipulated BY THEM.
And if you haven't seen this before, here's another guy who had Donald pegged in 1989... R. Crumb.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:52 PM on March 19, 2017 [25 favorites]
And if you haven't seen this before, here's another guy who had Donald pegged in 1989... R. Crumb.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:52 PM on March 19, 2017 [25 favorites]
There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that we wouldn't be here today without the countless millions of dollars worth of free airtime Trump was given. And that's before even considering any of his policies (such as they are) or those of his supporters. The man, and thus his presidency, is a natural product of the American media landscape. Breslin saw it coming.
posted by monospace at 10:00 PM on March 19, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by monospace at 10:00 PM on March 19, 2017 [28 favorites]
Democrats need to stop trying to feel everyone’s pain, and hold on to their own anger.
I totally agree that the Mark Lilla listening-tour horseshit needs to go away. The Trumpistas don't want to be heard, they want to punish people who aren't like them.
The only quibble I have with the article is the knock on the 50-state strategy. I don't think that running more and better candidates in red states means watering down Democratic values to effectively cater to racist whites.
posted by en forme de poire at 10:00 PM on March 19, 2017 [11 favorites]
I totally agree that the Mark Lilla listening-tour horseshit needs to go away. The Trumpistas don't want to be heard, they want to punish people who aren't like them.
The only quibble I have with the article is the knock on the 50-state strategy. I don't think that running more and better candidates in red states means watering down Democratic values to effectively cater to racist whites.
posted by en forme de poire at 10:00 PM on March 19, 2017 [11 favorites]
If we don't take back the house in 2018 we are fucked.
...which involves picking up like 30 seats. Whoof. This goes back to my issue about not running enough good candidates. Dems better be looking hard at every Republican-led district where Clinton won or came close, red state or not.
posted by en forme de poire at 10:06 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
...which involves picking up like 30 seats. Whoof. This goes back to my issue about not running enough good candidates. Dems better be looking hard at every Republican-led district where Clinton won or came close, red state or not.
posted by en forme de poire at 10:06 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
The good news I read was they need about 25 seats, of which 20 are districts where Hillary got more votes than Donald. The math isn't that scary, at least on the House side.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:11 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:11 PM on March 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
listening-tour horseshit needs to go away
I think Jonathan Coulton has provided the perfect theme music for these "negotiations."
posted by dirge at 10:18 PM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think Jonathan Coulton has provided the perfect theme music for these "negotiations."
posted by dirge at 10:18 PM on March 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
Some interesting thoughts from Ben Wittes on How to Listen to Jim Comey's Testimony on Monday (this is your regularly scheduled reminder that Lawfare is an awful blog devoted to worshiping the worst excesses of the national security state, and I feel bad for linking it):
That is, if Comey says a lot, makes a lot of news on Russia matters, and cheers a lot of anti-Trump hearts by maximally embarassing the President for his outrageous comments on Obama's alleged wiretapping of Trump Tower, that will very likely be a sign that Comey has relatively little to protect in terms of investigative equities in the Russia matter and is thus free to vent. Conversely, a quiet, reserved Comey—one whose contrast with the relatively loquatious FBI director who talked at length about the Clinton email matters will infuriate a lot of liberals and frustrate those who want to know what's going on with Russia—may well spell trouble for the President.posted by zachlipton at 10:57 PM on March 19, 2017 [4 favorites]
just moved to another beautiful spot in cascadia; registered to vote; lots of websites will tell me who my fed reps are; but can't find and app/calendar for easy alerts on upcoming elections at all levels. you'd think my political party or the other political groups that hit me up for money/petitions would want to make it as easy as possible to know when (and for what) to vote at all levels of the game but it actually takes a lot of hunting to get that info. -Samantha Bee (slyt: 3min in gets to point) calls us out for low offyear voting.
also would love an app to filter my shopping options to non-republican businesses. I want easy nonviolent ways to fight these fascapitalumpkins with my votes and wallet. I want the lowest information and effort barriers to political action - because we know the other side is going to push for the highest barriers, like bigly yuge! the best barriers to voting. paid for by drug tested, means tested, standardized tested poors.
my 2 cents
posted by Anchorite_of_Palgrave at 11:06 PM on March 19, 2017 [7 favorites]
also would love an app to filter my shopping options to non-republican businesses. I want easy nonviolent ways to fight these fascapitalumpkins with my votes and wallet. I want the lowest information and effort barriers to political action - because we know the other side is going to push for the highest barriers, like bigly yuge! the best barriers to voting. paid for by drug tested, means tested, standardized tested poors.
my 2 cents
posted by Anchorite_of_Palgrave at 11:06 PM on March 19, 2017 [7 favorites]
The math isn't that scary
I really don't know when I'll start reading this without flashing back to the election day reassurances I remember trying to calm myself down with.
posted by flatluigi at 12:00 AM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
I really don't know when I'll start reading this without flashing back to the election day reassurances I remember trying to calm myself down with.
posted by flatluigi at 12:00 AM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
I feel like oneswellfoop's link has been overlooked a little.
A California waiter refused to serve 4 Latina customers until he saw ‘proof of residency’
Now this racist asshole was fired, and the management made a donation to a charity of the customer's choice, the Orange County Immigrant Youth United. So it seems everything was resolved well.
It may be that Huntington Beach is a red dot in sapphire blue California. In Arizona this scumbag may have been given the American Medal of Super Patriotism of America, while the women are cuffed.
It's the emboldening though. This guy might have spat in a few bowls of soup before, but now they and other racists feel they have the authority of the highest office in the land to deputize themselves as immigration enforcers. They are emboldened.
And let's not pretend this is about immigration. I'm an Australian of Swedish heritage. I could be airdropped (illegally) anywhere in America and until I opened my mouth no-one would ask me for papers. I'm a white guy. The whole immigration thing is a fig-leaf for racism.
posted by adept256 at 12:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [66 favorites]
A California waiter refused to serve 4 Latina customers until he saw ‘proof of residency’
Now this racist asshole was fired, and the management made a donation to a charity of the customer's choice, the Orange County Immigrant Youth United. So it seems everything was resolved well.
It may be that Huntington Beach is a red dot in sapphire blue California. In Arizona this scumbag may have been given the American Medal of Super Patriotism of America, while the women are cuffed.
It's the emboldening though. This guy might have spat in a few bowls of soup before, but now they and other racists feel they have the authority of the highest office in the land to deputize themselves as immigration enforcers. They are emboldened.
And let's not pretend this is about immigration. I'm an Australian of Swedish heritage. I could be airdropped (illegally) anywhere in America and until I opened my mouth no-one would ask me for papers. I'm a white guy. The whole immigration thing is a fig-leaf for racism.
posted by adept256 at 12:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [66 favorites]
The waiter must really be dumber than a bag of hammers because why wouldn't you be serving non-residents? The restaurant industry is all for the tourist dollar.
posted by PenDevil at 12:30 AM on March 20, 2017 [47 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 12:30 AM on March 20, 2017 [47 favorites]
How else is he going to do his patriotic duty and call the authorities to protect 'Murica from dangerous groups of diners if he's not able to ask to check their papers?
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:36 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:36 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
That is, if Comey says a lot, makes a lot of news on Russia matters, and cheers a lot of anti-Trump hearts by maximally embarassing the President for his outrageous comments on Obama's alleged wiretapping of Trump Tower, that will very likely be a sign that Comey has relatively little to protect in terms of investigative equities in the Russia matter and is thus free to vent. Conversely, a quiet, reserved Comey—one whose contrast with the relatively loquatious FBI director who talked at length about the Clinton email matters will infuriate a lot of liberals and frustrate those who want to know what's going on with Russia—may well spell trouble for the President.The problem with this rather generous theory - and normally I'd agree with it - is that he was also extremely loquacious before the FBI knew the content of the Huma Abedin laptop emails, potentially endangering any investigation that would have occurred had they been incriminating.
posted by jaduncan at 2:07 AM on March 20, 2017
Agreed! Indivisible has taught me that many red states are populated by millions of decent compassionate people who do not love rule by kleptocracy/theocracy and who are numerous enough to effect change. This is the time to double down on principles and present voters with real choice in the midterms.
I totally agree with this. And even if this doesn't pan out by 2018 and we have a few embarrassing defeats in red districts, I think it's worth thinking about this over the long term. I mean Republicans didn't gerrymander themselves into a ~5-point advantage overnight.
posted by en forme de poire at 2:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
I totally agree with this. And even if this doesn't pan out by 2018 and we have a few embarrassing defeats in red districts, I think it's worth thinking about this over the long term. I mean Republicans didn't gerrymander themselves into a ~5-point advantage overnight.
posted by en forme de poire at 2:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is sort of a random question- but did anyone see commentary on the H1B report that 60 Minutes had last night? Some Trump-voting family members were touting it as "must see tv" on Facebook, which makes me leery (but on the other hand, the H1B system has been a bit of a mess for quite some time now, I just mostly don't trust 60 Minutes to do an accurate reporting of how..)
posted by nat at 2:54 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by nat at 2:54 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Nat, in searching about the 60 Minutes report, I see that per TheHill.com, our Senators are now Tweeting at Trump to try to get his attention on things. If that has happened before, I'd missed it. But, you know, of COURSE they are.
posted by thebrokedown at 3:27 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 3:27 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Nat, in searching about the 60 Minutes report, I see that per TheHill.com, our Senators are now Tweeting at Trump to try to get his attention on things. If that has happened before, I'd missed it. But, you know, of COURSE they are.
Epistemic closure. Apparently even Senators are having issues.
posted by jaduncan at 4:16 AM on March 20, 2017
Epistemic closure. Apparently even Senators are having issues.
posted by jaduncan at 4:16 AM on March 20, 2017
even the right-wing Cato Institute
CATO is a right-libertarian thinktank, so they are positively disposed towards immigration, open borders and free trade.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:29 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
CATO is a right-libertarian thinktank, so they are positively disposed towards immigration, open borders and free trade.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:29 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
How do we set something up so people can easily send business cards to Mulvaney with the job title of their choice?
A website + moo.com
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
A website + moo.com
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
No Sympathy for the Hillbilly
If everyone in Appalachia and the Ozarks voted for Trump they couldn't have gotten him halfway to 1600, but it's the hillbillies' fault. There's over 50 million other reasons Trump is president.
posted by ridgerunner at 4:34 AM on March 20, 2017 [29 favorites]
If everyone in Appalachia and the Ozarks voted for Trump they couldn't have gotten him halfway to 1600, but it's the hillbillies' fault. There's over 50 million other reasons Trump is president.
posted by ridgerunner at 4:34 AM on March 20, 2017 [29 favorites]
I love moo.com but their cards are costlier. You can choose from various blank template designs at VistaPrint, too, for much less. I haven't tested it with profanity.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:50 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Room 641-A at 4:50 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
If everyone in Appalachia and the Ozarks voted for Trump they couldn't have gotten him halfway to 1600, but it's the hillbillies' fault. There's over 50 million other reasons Trump is president.
Sure, but it seems to be a lot of the people in these places who are now regretting their vote, because they are worried about losing their health care or things like that.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:03 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sure, but it seems to be a lot of the people in these places who are now regretting their vote, because they are worried about losing their health care or things like that.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:03 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Maybe one could just say that Trump voters are to blame for Trump?
I mean, half of my family is from a pretty redneck area, and before that from Appalachia, and they'd all gnaw off a forearm before voting for Trump, so it gets me down a little bit to have all this blanket "no sympathy for people from distressed areas".
posted by Frowner at 5:10 AM on March 20, 2017 [59 favorites]
I mean, half of my family is from a pretty redneck area, and before that from Appalachia, and they'd all gnaw off a forearm before voting for Trump, so it gets me down a little bit to have all this blanket "no sympathy for people from distressed areas".
posted by Frowner at 5:10 AM on March 20, 2017 [59 favorites]
If you're thinking of faxing (or tweeting?) business cards there are lots of free, printable templates, like these from Avery (mobile requires app download) or for use with Word or Excel.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:16 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 5:16 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump meetings today:
-Bill Gates
-Paul Ryan, Tom Price, Zeke Emanuel
-Pence
-Tillerson
-Iraq prime minister, in Oval
-fly to KY for rally.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:16 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
-Bill Gates
-Paul Ryan, Tom Price, Zeke Emanuel
-Pence
-Tillerson
-Iraq prime minister, in Oval
-fly to KY for rally.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:16 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, moo has that thing where every card can say something different. Which would be hilarious
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:17 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:17 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
If everyone in Appalachia and the Ozarks voted for Trump they couldn't have gotten him halfway to 1600, but it's the hillbillies' fault. There's over 50 million other reasons Trump is president.
These are the trump voters I blame least, overall. On inauguration day I was struck by the obviously unwell, clearly struggling and generally overwhelmed people huddling with their maga signs in occasional pockets down by Columbus Circle. These people have largely been failed. I'm sure many of them have shitty attitudes and beliefs, but their ignorance isn't necessarily of their own choosing. I'm also sure they would also resent that framing/pity.
But they were in such stark contrast to the slick Bethesda suburbanites who were walking around calling us protesters idiots to our faces. Those pompous white suburbanites are way more the problem; for one there are a lot more of them and for another they're willfully ignorant and shitty, despite having had ample opportunities.
posted by aspersioncast at 5:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [50 favorites]
These are the trump voters I blame least, overall. On inauguration day I was struck by the obviously unwell, clearly struggling and generally overwhelmed people huddling with their maga signs in occasional pockets down by Columbus Circle. These people have largely been failed. I'm sure many of them have shitty attitudes and beliefs, but their ignorance isn't necessarily of their own choosing. I'm also sure they would also resent that framing/pity.
But they were in such stark contrast to the slick Bethesda suburbanites who were walking around calling us protesters idiots to our faces. Those pompous white suburbanites are way more the problem; for one there are a lot more of them and for another they're willfully ignorant and shitty, despite having had ample opportunities.
posted by aspersioncast at 5:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [50 favorites]
I think it's safe to say, considering we keep going around and around in circles on it, that the Trump phenomenon is too complex to be easily distilled down to a single category.
posted by ragtag at 5:29 AM on March 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by ragtag at 5:29 AM on March 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
I mean, half of my family is from a pretty redneck area, and before that from Appalachia, and they'd all gnaw off a forearm before voting for Trump, so it gets me down a little bit to have all this blanket "no sympathy for people from distressed areas".
I live in a blood-red rural state. I come from the Ozarks. My wife proudly describes herself as "half hillbilly, half swamp". I have for decades repeatedly damn near rolled my eyes out of my head at northerners patting themselves on the back for how less racist they are than us. And now I've lost count of the number of "this is the rednecks' fault" conversations I've had to endure since November.
The desire of a certain and very large subset of urban white liberals to absolve their own race or home culture of any responsibility in this mess by shoving it off on us is so breathtakingly evidence-resistant that it gives creationists and anti-vaxxers a run for their money. And it is exhausting.
We're marching too, guys. And some of us would surprise you.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:35 AM on March 20, 2017 [134 favorites]
I live in a blood-red rural state. I come from the Ozarks. My wife proudly describes herself as "half hillbilly, half swamp". I have for decades repeatedly damn near rolled my eyes out of my head at northerners patting themselves on the back for how less racist they are than us. And now I've lost count of the number of "this is the rednecks' fault" conversations I've had to endure since November.
The desire of a certain and very large subset of urban white liberals to absolve their own race or home culture of any responsibility in this mess by shoving it off on us is so breathtakingly evidence-resistant that it gives creationists and anti-vaxxers a run for their money. And it is exhausting.
We're marching too, guys. And some of us would surprise you.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:35 AM on March 20, 2017 [134 favorites]
...the Trump phenomenon is too complex to be easily distilled down to a single category.White people.
The problem is that white people overwhelmingly voted for a racist pussy-grabbing shitgibbon.
posted by Combat Wombat at 5:45 AM on March 20, 2017 [48 favorites]
It's almost like people, when faced with complexity, use stereotypes to make sense to themselves.
Same as it ever was.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 5:45 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Same as it ever was.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 5:45 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Indivisible has taught me that many red states are populated by millions of decent compassionate people
You didn't know that until 2017?
posted by jpe at 5:51 AM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
You didn't know that until 2017?
posted by jpe at 5:51 AM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
While everyone is falling all over themselves to explain the rural white working class, suburban and exurban white upper middle class Trump voters slip past while whistling a jaunty tune. The call is coming from juuuuust outside the house, guys.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:55 AM on March 20, 2017 [73 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:55 AM on March 20, 2017 [73 favorites]
Appalachia and the Ozarks no longer make very much sense as a geographic cultural signifier. Drive 30 minutes out of any large city (eg Minneapolis) and you'll see dixie flags on coal rolling trucks and creepy anti abortion billboards.
Where I see the real divide is between large cities and their inner ring suburbs vs outer suburbs and rural areas.
posted by localhuman at 6:05 AM on March 20, 2017 [40 favorites]
Where I see the real divide is between large cities and their inner ring suburbs vs outer suburbs and rural areas.
posted by localhuman at 6:05 AM on March 20, 2017 [40 favorites]
Yeah, I think a lot of the ways that people talk about this stuff is kind of not-helpful, both in the sense that it's not accurate and in the sense that it plays into the persecution fantasies of people who are motivated by a sense that they're victims of liberal elites who view them with contempt. And I have a lot of contempt for Trump voters, but not because I think they're noble savages who are just too simple to realize they're voting for assholes.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:19 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:19 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Donny's feeling the Comey pressure. 5 tweets this morning playing the greatest hits about Russia.
James Clapper and others stated that there is no evidence Potus colluded with Russia. This story is FAKE NEWS and everyone knows it!
The Democrats made up and pushed the Russian story as an excuse for running a terrible campaign. Big advantage in Electoral College & lost!
The real story that Congress, the FBI and all others should be looking into is the leaking of Classified information. Must find leaker now!
Just heard Fake News CNN is doing polls again despite the fact that their election polls were a WAY OFF disaster. Much higher ratings at Fox
What about all of the contact with the Clinton campaign and the Russians? Also, is it true that the DNC would not let the FBI in to look?
posted by chris24 at 6:21 AM on March 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
James Clapper and others stated that there is no evidence Potus colluded with Russia. This story is FAKE NEWS and everyone knows it!
The Democrats made up and pushed the Russian story as an excuse for running a terrible campaign. Big advantage in Electoral College & lost!
The real story that Congress, the FBI and all others should be looking into is the leaking of Classified information. Must find leaker now!
Just heard Fake News CNN is doing polls again despite the fact that their election polls were a WAY OFF disaster. Much higher ratings at Fox
What about all of the contact with the Clinton campaign and the Russians? Also, is it true that the DNC would not let the FBI in to look?
posted by chris24 at 6:21 AM on March 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
Amazing Disgrace -How did Donald Trump—a thrice-married, biblically illiterate sexual predator—hijack the religious right?
By backing Trump, white evangelicals were playing into the hands of a new, alt-right version of Christianity—a sprawling coalition of white nationalists, old-school Confederates, neo-Nazis, Islamophobes, and social-media propagandists who viewed the religious right, first and foremost, as a vehicle for white supremacy.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:29 AM on March 20, 2017 [35 favorites]
By backing Trump, white evangelicals were playing into the hands of a new, alt-right version of Christianity—a sprawling coalition of white nationalists, old-school Confederates, neo-Nazis, Islamophobes, and social-media propagandists who viewed the religious right, first and foremost, as a vehicle for white supremacy.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:29 AM on March 20, 2017 [35 favorites]
I ordered some business cards for Mulvaney, that list his job title as "Starver of Hungry Children and Elderly" and are monogrammed EVIL. If you want to do the same, here is the link you can order from and you'll need the OMB's address and phone number, which are 725 17th Street, NW, Washington, DC 20503, 202-395-3080.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:31 AM on March 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:31 AM on March 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
chris24: James Clapper and others stated that there is no evidence Potus colluded with Russia. This story is FAKE NEWS and everyone knows it!
The language in this fascinates me. Does he frequently refer to himself in the third person as POTUS? Is it an aide writing the tweet for him? Or is he consciously or unconsciously mentally distancing himself from the verb of the sentence in the same way that someone might say "...and then the car hit the bicyclist" instead of "...and then I hit the bicyclist with the car"?
posted by bluecore at 6:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
The language in this fascinates me. Does he frequently refer to himself in the third person as POTUS? Is it an aide writing the tweet for him? Or is he consciously or unconsciously mentally distancing himself from the verb of the sentence in the same way that someone might say "...and then the car hit the bicyclist" instead of "...and then I hit the bicyclist with the car"?
posted by bluecore at 6:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
Every time he stops tweeting crazy stuff for a couple days I get worried somebody's finally gotten through to him about how damaging it is to any sort of coherent agenda when he tweets crazy stuff all the time. And then I get a nice reassuring feeling when the crazy comes back out again. I guess this is a pretty sad place to be mentally, though, where it seems better for the President to be more crazy than less crazy. But it does. He would be so much more dangerous if his minions could figure out how to control him, or at least to make him assume a veneer of competence.
posted by something something at 6:34 AM on March 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by something something at 6:34 AM on March 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
White evangelicals have been the willing dupes of hucksters both political and non- for decades.
I don't know what makes them such easy marks (welllll I kind of do), but ever since a national political party discovered that if you use the right code words they'll fall into lockstep and stay there for life, they've been on the path to place we are now.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:36 AM on March 20, 2017 [41 favorites]
I don't know what makes them such easy marks (welllll I kind of do), but ever since a national political party discovered that if you use the right code words they'll fall into lockstep and stay there for life, they've been on the path to place we are now.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:36 AM on March 20, 2017 [41 favorites]
The distancing is interesting. It's in the same vein as when a sports team fan says "we won!" when the team wins, and "they lost" after the team loses.
posted by emelenjr at 6:36 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by emelenjr at 6:36 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
White House installs political aides at Cabinet agencies to be Trump’s eyes and ears
posted by kirkaracha at 6:37 AM on March 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
Most members of President Trump’s Cabinet do not yet have leadership teams in place or even nominees for top deputies. But they do have an influential coterie of senior aides installed by the White House who are charged — above all — with monitoring the secretaries’ loyalty, according to eight officials in and outside the administration."Don't turn around, oh oh/Der Kommissar's in town, oh oh"
This shadow government of political appointees with the title of senior White House adviser is embedded at every Cabinet agency, with offices in or just outside the secretary’s suite. The White House has installed at least 16 of the advisers at departments including Energy and Health and Human Services and at some smaller agencies such as NASA, according to records first obtained by ProPublica through a Freedom of Information Act request.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:37 AM on March 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
Now that "fake news" has come around 180 degrees to indicate anything that's not propaganda, I think those POTUS tweets this morning pretty much seal the deal that he's guilty as hell.
posted by Dr. Send at 6:37 AM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Dr. Send at 6:37 AM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
I'm pretty sure at this point that Comey is going to come out and say, "No evidence.". Then the question becomes, "Just how much does the soul of an FBI director go for on the fair market?"
posted by jferg at 6:38 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by jferg at 6:38 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Mod note: A couple deleted. I'm sorry, but the whole White People who voted for Trump thing is now devouring the thread, and we've had plenty of posts/threads completely dedicated to this topic. Let's get back to the current news here, please.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:45 AM on March 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 6:45 AM on March 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
It hasn't started yet, but here's the C-SPAN link to the House Intelligence hearings.
Please give context for any references you make to what's going down there today, for those who aren't listening/watching.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:54 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Please give context for any references you make to what's going down there today, for those who aren't listening/watching.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:54 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Every time he stops tweeting crazy stuff for a couple days I get worried somebody's finally gotten through to him about how damaging it is to any sort of coherent agenda when he tweets crazy stuff all the time. And then I get a nice reassuring feeling when the crazy comes back out again. I guess this is a pretty sad place to be mentally, though, where it seems better for the President to be more crazy than less crazy. But it does. He would be so much more dangerous if his minions could figure out how to control him, or at least to make him assume a veneer of competence.
It's pretty common for victims of abuse to feel this way. You want the abuse to end but you worry that if it does nobody will believe that it ever happened in the first place.
posted by srboisvert at 7:01 AM on March 20, 2017 [49 favorites]
It's pretty common for victims of abuse to feel this way. You want the abuse to end but you worry that if it does nobody will believe that it ever happened in the first place.
posted by srboisvert at 7:01 AM on March 20, 2017 [49 favorites]
Devin Nunes unveils the sporty and luxurious 2017 Toyota Pravada.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:07 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:07 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
I was thinking the other day about how in old Metatalk threads you frequently got people coming in to say "The moderation in this place is out of control! This tyranny is ruining Metafilter and I'll leave as soon as I find another acceptable online community but I haven't yet because everything else is a cesspit" and I'd think "you...you don't see any connection here? You don't understand how maybe the tyrannical moderation you decry is what's actually making Metafilter not uninhabitable like everywhere else?" and I feel like these people are now running the country.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 7:09 AM on March 20, 2017 [89 favorites]
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 7:09 AM on March 20, 2017 [89 favorites]
The language in this fascinates me. Does he frequently refer to himself in the third person as POTUS?
Whether or not he's suffering from dementia aside, I believe he thinks that as the "Chief Executive" there's no one with the authority to question him. ( See also: "Royal We" )
posted by mikelieman at 7:10 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Whether or not he's suffering from dementia aside, I believe he thinks that as the "Chief Executive" there's no one with the authority to question him. ( See also: "Royal We" )
posted by mikelieman at 7:10 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
How long until he tweets "Why doesn't the President DO something about this?!?"?
posted by Etrigan at 7:11 AM on March 20, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 7:11 AM on March 20, 2017 [19 favorites]
I'm pretty sure at this point that Comey is going to come out and say, "No evidence.". Then the question becomes, "Just how much does the soul of an FBI director go for on the fair market?"
$5 and a share in rosneft, same as in the Oval?
posted by nubs at 7:15 AM on March 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
$5 and a share in rosneft, same as in the Oval?
posted by nubs at 7:15 AM on March 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
So far, Schiff is basically recapping the entire Steele Dossier, including Rosneft and the 19%. He is walking through the whole timeline. It's kind of amazing.
posted by Freon at 7:19 AM on March 20, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by Freon at 7:19 AM on March 20, 2017 [35 favorites]
Yeah, Schiff's timeline is the most useful summary I've heard on the whole thing. I am not the best at paying attention to a parade of smarmy white dudes, though (to my never-ending detriment in figuring out this administration), so the whole thing kinda slips off the surface of my mind usually.
posted by lauranesson at 7:22 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by lauranesson at 7:22 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
So far, Schiff is basically recapping the entire Steele Dossier, including Rosneft and the 19%. He is walking through the whole timeline. It's kind of amazing.
Yep. Going through the dossier and all the publicly available info corroborating it, including Roger Stone's tweets, Rosneft, the timing of the GOP platform changes to make it more favorable to Russia. This is amazing.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:22 AM on March 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
Yep. Going through the dossier and all the publicly available info corroborating it, including Roger Stone's tweets, Rosneft, the timing of the GOP platform changes to make it more favorable to Russia. This is amazing.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:22 AM on March 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
Yeah, Schiff is doing a really bang-up explainer here, landing on "Coincidence? Iiiiii think not." . If folks can find a transcript or clip later, it's worth it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:23 AM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:23 AM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
MetaFilter: now running the country.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:24 AM on March 20, 2017
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:24 AM on March 20, 2017
NSA Director Rogers in opening statement: FISA and existing EO has been instrumental in providing "intelligence requested by this committee" about foreign actors.
posted by Freon at 7:30 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Freon at 7:30 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
"Our practice is not to confirm the existence of ongoing investigations," but sometimes we do, if it's real important (paraphrased at the end there). - Comey
posted by lauranesson at 7:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by lauranesson at 7:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Directory Comey : "Authorized by DOJ" to confirm investigation into Russian election interference, and coordination with Trump campaign.
posted by Freon at 7:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Freon at 7:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Comey confirms investigation, including ties of Trump campaign with Russian interference.
Is this new?
posted by leotrotsky at 7:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
Is this new?
posted by leotrotsky at 7:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
Wow, Comey admits that the FBI is indeed investigating not just the Russian interference but also the Trump campaign's possible involvement.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
Comey: FBI is investigating Russian measures during the election, including any link between the Trump campaign and the Russians, but he cannot say more about what they are doing and who they are investigating. "I know that is extremely frustrating to some folks, but that is the way it has to be."
posted by zachlipton at 7:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
So far my impression is that this is waht seems to be happening. Am I wrong about this?
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:35 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:35 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm looking forward to hearing from my Jr.* Senator, Kamala Harris.
*Hopefilly soon-to-be Sr. Senator. Ted Lieu for Senate!
posted by Room 641-A at 7:35 AM on March 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
*Hopefilly soon-to-be Sr. Senator. Ted Lieu for Senate!
posted by Room 641-A at 7:35 AM on March 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
Dan Drezner writing in the WaPo has a critique of Tillerson's performance to date
posted by readery at 7:36 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by readery at 7:36 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Denver Post: [CO Democratic Senator] Michael Bennet squeezed in Neil Gorsuch fight
And last week, former Colorado Gov. Bill Ritter, a Democrat, co-signed a letter in support of Gorsuch, a judge on the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver.posted by audi alteram partem at 7:37 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
“It is time to rise above the political fray, and for both sides of the aisle to commit to the high road going forward,” wrote Ritter, along with John Suthers, a Republican and former Colorado attorney general.
Devin Nunes: Did the Russians change votes in Michigan.
Mike Rogers: Uh, we're a *foreign* intelligence agency, we're not the people you want to ask.
Devin Nunes: LOLyeah I just want you to say,"No."
posted by leotrotsky at 7:37 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Mike Rogers: Uh, we're a *foreign* intelligence agency, we're not the people you want to ask.
Devin Nunes: LOLyeah I just want you to say,"No."
posted by leotrotsky at 7:37 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Nunes asking a bunch of questions he already knows the answers to. "Were voting machines hacked" and "Leaks are bad mkay."
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:39 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:39 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Nunes chooses to use his time to ask whether leaking classified information is illegal. Satisfied that it is, he considers his job done here.
posted by zachlipton at 7:40 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:40 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
To be fair, if you ask a question in a hearing you don't already know the answer to, you're Congress-ing wrong.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:41 AM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:41 AM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
Personal opinion: Comey seems to be succinct in his answers to questions regarding leaks, not encouraging any followup. He also mentioned it last in his opening statement, and did not devote much time.
posted by Freon at 7:41 AM on March 20, 2017
posted by Freon at 7:41 AM on March 20, 2017
Twitter's losing it over Comey confirming that Trump admin is under investigation for possible collusion with Russians, "THIS IS A BOMBSHELL." (their words. repeatedly.) Is this really a huge deal or just Twitter being Twitter?
posted by the turtle's teeth at 7:43 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by the turtle's teeth at 7:43 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Comey: FBI is investigating Russian measures during the election, including any link between the Trump campaign and the Russians, but he cannot say more about what they are doing and who they are investigating. "I know that is extremely frustrating to some folks, but that is the way it has to be."
"We only comment on ongoing investigations when they're against Hilary Clinton"
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:43 AM on March 20, 2017 [67 favorites]
"We only comment on ongoing investigations when they're against Hilary Clinton"
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:43 AM on March 20, 2017 [67 favorites]
Brian Beutler: The Media’s Failure to Correct Republicans’ Obscene Trumpcare Lies
If the House Republicans pass the American Health Care Act this week, as House Speaker Paul Ryan predicts they will, it’ll represent a major triumph of dishonesty over plain, if slightly more complex, truths.posted by zombieflanders at 7:44 AM on March 20, 2017 [26 favorites]
At an obvious level, it will require Republicans to ignore or dispute or lie about the Congressional Budget Office’s conclusion that Trumpcare is likely to cause 14 million people to lose their insurance next year alone and reduce insurance rolls on the whole by 24 million over 10 years, relative to where they’d be if Republicans just administered the Affordable Care Act in good faith.
But at a more cynical level, it will be a victory for the false claims Republicans have made to paper over the fact that their Obamacare alternative would create a humanitarian crisis by cutting off health care assistance to the poor and elderly, so that they can massively and permanently cut rich people’s taxes.
If these lies propel the AHCA to passage, though, it is only because they were never seriously, or in sustained fashion, treated as such by leading news outlets covering the Obamacare repeal process. Where the CBO’s coverage findings spoke for themselves, the agency’s other conclusions, and other legislative esoterica, have allowed Ryan and his members to tell a different—and completely false—story about what Trumpcare will mean for people.
I just want to quote from sorn_lorenson's link from above:
In the third scenario, Russia is a very big deal. Comey, in other words, has significant investigative equities to protect and he believes that he needs to be there in order to protect them—in other words, that he has a responsibility to not get himself fired because of his anger about the Trump tweets (or anything else) because he has to make sure the investigation can proceed unimpeded. In this situation, I would expect him to be minimally verbal. He may have to answer yes or no questions in certain instances, including about the truth of the wiretapping allegations, but he will refuse to answer a lot of questions. He will make as little news as humanly possible. He will be exceptionally spare with his opinions. He will make a point of not antagonizing the President. Lots of people will leave disappointed.
By my read, that what I'm seeing from Comey's comments so far.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:45 AM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
In the third scenario, Russia is a very big deal. Comey, in other words, has significant investigative equities to protect and he believes that he needs to be there in order to protect them—in other words, that he has a responsibility to not get himself fired because of his anger about the Trump tweets (or anything else) because he has to make sure the investigation can proceed unimpeded. In this situation, I would expect him to be minimally verbal. He may have to answer yes or no questions in certain instances, including about the truth of the wiretapping allegations, but he will refuse to answer a lot of questions. He will make as little news as humanly possible. He will be exceptionally spare with his opinions. He will make a point of not antagonizing the President. Lots of people will leave disappointed.
By my read, that what I'm seeing from Comey's comments so far.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:45 AM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
Glenn Thrush tweeted: "Actual wow." So I'll go with that.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:46 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:46 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Every time he stops tweeting crazy stuff for a couple days I get worried somebody's finally gotten through to him about how damaging it is to any sort of coherent agenda when he tweets crazy stuff all the time. And then I get a nice reassuring feeling when the crazy comes back out again
Someone on Twitter this morning observed that its been 13 days since a tweet from the Android phone that Trump uses (I'm not sure if that includes this morning's outburst). So....maybe he's dictating?
posted by nubs at 7:48 AM on March 20, 2017
Someone on Twitter this morning observed that its been 13 days since a tweet from the Android phone that Trump uses (I'm not sure if that includes this morning's outburst). So....maybe he's dictating?
posted by nubs at 7:48 AM on March 20, 2017
This hearing is great so far. Serious, professional, credible. I hope it educates some people who haven't been paying attention (which seems to be a major point of it), and launches some stuff into the news cycle again which got drowned out when originally published (unless you're a slightly obsessed MeFite.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:50 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:50 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
I also love how Nunes led off with several specific questions that amounted to, "But the Russians didn't change any votes, right? So Trump won fair and square, and it's not like they did anything really wrong, just some minor little email hacks and possible collusion." He sure is Daddy's good little soldier.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:50 AM on March 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:50 AM on March 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
Doesn't sound like the the Republicans are going to get too much out of Comey and Rogers about leaks besides general agreement that they're illegal and bad.
For those following along without video, here's the transcript of Comey confirming an investigation.
posted by zachlipton at 7:52 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
For those following along without video, here's the transcript of Comey confirming an investigation.
posted by zachlipton at 7:52 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sorry for the contextless comment but I'm always very impressed by Mike Rogers when I see him in these hearings. He seems like a lot of talented and smart engineers that I work with.
posted by birdheist at 7:52 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by birdheist at 7:52 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
He sure is Daddy's good little soldier.
It's really scary how the GOP has fallen into line with Trump personally. Like, Pence would be fine with them, right? They could have already impeached Trump and claimed that the cancer had been excised and now everything's fine so don't worry about how Honest President Mike is criminalizing fellatio and cutting the top tax bracket to 2%, but they just can't bring themselves to do it.
posted by Etrigan at 7:54 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's really scary how the GOP has fallen into line with Trump personally. Like, Pence would be fine with them, right? They could have already impeached Trump and claimed that the cancer had been excised and now everything's fine so don't worry about how Honest President Mike is criminalizing fellatio and cutting the top tax bracket to 2%, but they just can't bring themselves to do it.
posted by Etrigan at 7:54 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Rogers let Rooney rant and rave about leaks and 702 re-authorization for 15 minutes and then at the last second goes, "Oh btw, that has nothing to do with the FISA court which was how we obtained this." Ha!
posted by Freon at 7:55 AM on March 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Freon at 7:55 AM on March 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'd say it's not a coincidence that Rogers, who has been very quiet and saying as little as possible, piped up to add that FISA collection in the US is a separate program from 702 subject to its own rules (after being questioned at length about minimization procedures related to US persons from 702 collection). That certainly points to the existence of one or more FISA warrants that are relevant to this investigation.
posted by zachlipton at 7:55 AM on March 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:55 AM on March 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
So, Gowdy's argument is "The People give up some of their Right to Privacy to give Law Enforcement the tools to protect us". Wonder if he thinks that applies to the 2nd Amendment? Actually, I'm going to go with, "No."
posted by mikelieman at 7:59 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by mikelieman at 7:59 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Rep. Thomas Rooney, a.k.a. one of the better arguments against aristocracy.
posted by Etrigan at 8:00 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 8:00 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
All this leak talk is boring.
Yes leaks are bad, mkay. If you leak you're bad, mkay. Can we move on to talk about the reason why someone felt the necessity to leak information that pertains to the targeted undermining of our democratic processes by a foreign adversary?
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:01 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yes leaks are bad, mkay. If you leak you're bad, mkay. Can we move on to talk about the reason why someone felt the necessity to leak information that pertains to the targeted undermining of our democratic processes by a foreign adversary?
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:01 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Rooney with quite a gotcha there. Paraphrasing: "If we can't re-authorize the laws that let the NSA eavesdrop on foreign calls, will that hurt our national security?" Rogers "Yes, i think that's an important ability for us to have." (Not a surprising answer from the guy in charge of the NSA.) Rooney, "So if leaking the Michael Flynn's name makes people think their privacy is in danger from this law and as a result we in Congress can't re-authorize it because of the outcry, then that would endanger national security?" "Uh... Yeah." "Okay, so you're saying that the leak of Michael Flynnn's name endangers national security?" "Uh... I guess so." And then yeah, Rogers adding at the end that the law that needs to be reauthorized is not the law under which Flynn's calls were recorded.
When Rooney summarizes this later, he'll say "The head of the NSA confirmed that these leaks relating to Michael Flynn endanger national security" and leave out the "by somehow preventing us in Congress from renewing an unrelated surveillance authorization law" part.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:02 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
When Rooney summarizes this later, he'll say "The head of the NSA confirmed that these leaks relating to Michael Flynn endanger national security" and leave out the "by somehow preventing us in Congress from renewing an unrelated surveillance authorization law" part.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:02 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
They could have already impeached Trump and claimed that the cancer had been excised and now everything's fine so don't worry about how Honest President Mike is criminalizing fellatio and cutting the top tax bracket to 2%, but they just can't bring themselves to do it.
Nah, they own Trump, and they know it. An impeachment is such a historical, major thing, its bound to take down a lot of Republicans down with Trump. Not least because team Trump are going to do what they can to bring them down in their frantic attempt to avoid the obvious.
posted by mumimor at 8:02 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Nah, they own Trump, and they know it. An impeachment is such a historical, major thing, its bound to take down a lot of Republicans down with Trump. Not least because team Trump are going to do what they can to bring them down in their frantic attempt to avoid the obvious.
posted by mumimor at 8:02 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Schiff is reviewing the wiretapping claims!
posted by mikelieman at 8:02 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mikelieman at 8:02 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Comey has "no information" that supports Trump's tweets re: wiretapping.
posted by littlegreen at 8:03 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by littlegreen at 8:03 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
T.D. Strange "We only comment on ongoing investigations when they're against Hilary Clinton"
Yeah, I keep waiting for a reporter to ask Comey about that. But I guess journalism really is dead.
Seriously, reporters of America, it's all right to ask Comey uncomfortable questions. It's not merely OK, but it's your fucking job to ask him why he was so eager to smear Clinton but so coy about revealing anything about Trump.
They won't though, because in Washington the cardinal sin for a "journalist" is asking tough followups.
And then here's the abject surrender of the Democrats on the Supreme Court
When the Republicans declared Obama's last year in office to be null and void, somehow no one was sanctimoniously demanding that the Republicans rise above things and take the high road. Yet now that the Democrats are in a position to pay them back for their acts it's suddenly time for everyone to just be nice again?
But we've already lost on Gorsuch. All the Senate Democrats are talking like he's a normal nominee in a normal situation, they're talking about him as a judicial extremist which is ok I guess but that isn't the point.
The fucking point is that the Republicans stole a Supreme Court seat from us in an unprecedented violation of Senate norms. And yet on NPR this morning not a single one of the Democrats or analysts, or anyone bothered to mention this. No one pointed out that the only reason Trump is even in a position to appoint anyone is because the Republicans ratfucked us and broke the rules to nullify Obama's final year in office.
Instead they just talked like it was totally fine for Trump to be making appointments, like that seat didn't belong by right to Garland, and they made their arguments against Gorsuch like he was a real nominee instead of a usurper stealing a seat that belongs to someone else.
Instead of saying that they will oppose any nominee not named Merick Garland they blathered about Gorsuch being too divisive.
Which means the fight is lost and Gorsuch will be seated. There won't even be a filibuster, and probably he'll be confirmed with 70 or more votes.
They chose to go along with all the other surrender first losers and agree that it would be horrible, just horrible, to pay back the Republicans for their attack on us.
Until and unless the Democrats start extracting a real price from the Republicans when they cheat they will continue to cheat. I'm not super smart, this isn't an amazing revelation from a genius, anyone with two brain cells to bang together can see it, and yet the Democrats steadfastly refuse to take the only action we know would actually work.
I've never seen any explanation, other than the pathetic surrender first cowardice of demanding we take the high road, for this refusal to repay the Republicans for their actions. Is there some huge thing I'm missing here, or are 100% of our elected Democrats really the victims of lobotomies or something?
posted by sotonohito at 8:03 AM on March 20, 2017 [86 favorites]
Yeah, I keep waiting for a reporter to ask Comey about that. But I guess journalism really is dead.
Seriously, reporters of America, it's all right to ask Comey uncomfortable questions. It's not merely OK, but it's your fucking job to ask him why he was so eager to smear Clinton but so coy about revealing anything about Trump.
They won't though, because in Washington the cardinal sin for a "journalist" is asking tough followups.
And then here's the abject surrender of the Democrats on the Supreme Court
“It is time to rise above the political fray, and for both sides of the aisle to commit to the high road going forward,” wrote Ritter, along with John Suthers, a Republican and former Colorado attorney general.Isn't it amazing how when "both sides" must rise above things and take the high road in practical terms what that means is the Republicans flaunting the law and rules and Democrats sucking it up and letting them get away with it?
When the Republicans declared Obama's last year in office to be null and void, somehow no one was sanctimoniously demanding that the Republicans rise above things and take the high road. Yet now that the Democrats are in a position to pay them back for their acts it's suddenly time for everyone to just be nice again?
But we've already lost on Gorsuch. All the Senate Democrats are talking like he's a normal nominee in a normal situation, they're talking about him as a judicial extremist which is ok I guess but that isn't the point.
The fucking point is that the Republicans stole a Supreme Court seat from us in an unprecedented violation of Senate norms. And yet on NPR this morning not a single one of the Democrats or analysts, or anyone bothered to mention this. No one pointed out that the only reason Trump is even in a position to appoint anyone is because the Republicans ratfucked us and broke the rules to nullify Obama's final year in office.
Instead they just talked like it was totally fine for Trump to be making appointments, like that seat didn't belong by right to Garland, and they made their arguments against Gorsuch like he was a real nominee instead of a usurper stealing a seat that belongs to someone else.
Instead of saying that they will oppose any nominee not named Merick Garland they blathered about Gorsuch being too divisive.
Which means the fight is lost and Gorsuch will be seated. There won't even be a filibuster, and probably he'll be confirmed with 70 or more votes.
They chose to go along with all the other surrender first losers and agree that it would be horrible, just horrible, to pay back the Republicans for their attack on us.
Until and unless the Democrats start extracting a real price from the Republicans when they cheat they will continue to cheat. I'm not super smart, this isn't an amazing revelation from a genius, anyone with two brain cells to bang together can see it, and yet the Democrats steadfastly refuse to take the only action we know would actually work.
I've never seen any explanation, other than the pathetic surrender first cowardice of demanding we take the high road, for this refusal to repay the Republicans for their actions. Is there some huge thing I'm missing here, or are 100% of our elected Democrats really the victims of lobotomies or something?
posted by sotonohito at 8:03 AM on March 20, 2017 [86 favorites]
Like, Pence would be fine with them, right? They could have already impeached Trump and claimed that the cancer had been excised and now everything's fine so don't worry about how Honest President Mike is criminalizing fellatio and cutting the top tax bracket to 2%, but they just can't bring themselves to do it.
If they could snap their fingers and accomplish this, they probably would, but:
- The minority of rabid Trump partisans makes up a much greater percentage of their volunteers/voters/supporters than it does of the electorate as a whole.
- Many of the things Trump is doing are a harsher version of their own beliefs and plans. This means both that they don't see his actions as anywhere near as awful as we do, and also that they hesitate to admit that he's gone 'too far'. Opening up Trump's motivations, policies, rhetoric, etc to questioning also leaves them vulnerable as well. As long as Trump's brushing off accusations of racism and corruption and anti-democratic values, they can too.
I can understand why they're falling in line with Trump. I can't support it or respect it or forgive it but I can understand it.
posted by galaxy rise at 8:03 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
If they could snap their fingers and accomplish this, they probably would, but:
- The minority of rabid Trump partisans makes up a much greater percentage of their volunteers/voters/supporters than it does of the electorate as a whole.
- Many of the things Trump is doing are a harsher version of their own beliefs and plans. This means both that they don't see his actions as anywhere near as awful as we do, and also that they hesitate to admit that he's gone 'too far'. Opening up Trump's motivations, policies, rhetoric, etc to questioning also leaves them vulnerable as well. As long as Trump's brushing off accusations of racism and corruption and anti-democratic values, they can too.
I can understand why they're falling in line with Trump. I can't support it or respect it or forgive it but I can understand it.
posted by galaxy rise at 8:03 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Comey on the wiretapping tweets: "I have no information that supports those tweets and we have looked carefully inside the FBI. The Department of Justice has asked me to share with you that the answer is the same inside the DOJ and all its components. The DOJ has no information that supports those tweets."
posted by zachlipton at 8:03 AM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:03 AM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
Schiff: Were you engaged in McCarthyism, Director Comey?
Comey: I try not to engage in any isms.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:04 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Comey: I try not to engage in any isms.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:04 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
The R's are pushing LEAKS! to be the narrative. I'm not so sure LEAKS! really outrages or energizes their base as much as they think it does. I think on both the right or left, LEAKS! still has sort of positive connotations.
posted by klarck at 8:05 AM on March 20, 2017
posted by klarck at 8:05 AM on March 20, 2017
Comey being very specific that "no president could" order a wiretap. He then points out that all surveillance orders come from a judge, not any specific person.
He also refuses to comment on any FISA applications and whether or not they were granted.
posted by Freon at 8:06 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
He also refuses to comment on any FISA applications and whether or not they were granted.
posted by Freon at 8:06 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Schiff is asking Comey about each crazy tweet.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:07 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 8:07 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Does anyone else find it super ironic that Comey just announced the FBI is investigating interference in the election? Is this the reprise of announcing they were investigating emails just days before the election?
I mean, nail anyone colluding with foreign powers to sway the results, but Comey announcing another investigation into Hillary's emails days before the election did more than a thousand twitter eggs force-trending fake news could ever wish.
posted by adept256 at 8:07 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
I mean, nail anyone colluding with foreign powers to sway the results, but Comey announcing another investigation into Hillary's emails days before the election did more than a thousand twitter eggs force-trending fake news could ever wish.
posted by adept256 at 8:07 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Schiff: Watergate was about a break-in right? And a coverup?
Comey: Yep.
Schiff: LOLOMGWTF! This is the same thing, but with Russians!
posted by leotrotsky at 8:08 AM on March 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
Comey: Yep.
Schiff: LOLOMGWTF! This is the same thing, but with Russians!
posted by leotrotsky at 8:08 AM on March 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
The R's are pushing LEAKS! to be the narrative. I'm not so sure LEAKS! really outrages or energizes their base as much as they think it does. I think on both the right or left, LEAKS! still has sort of positive connotations.
Their base desperately wants a reason to not care that the President of the United States is bought by Russia and has surrounded himself with other people who are bought by Russia. The GOP side of the Intelligence Committee could spend the whole time asking whether there were any cats in FBI HQ and you'll see those same people on Facebook saying that the real problem is all the goddamn mice at the Hoover.
posted by Etrigan at 8:08 AM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
Their base desperately wants a reason to not care that the President of the United States is bought by Russia and has surrounded himself with other people who are bought by Russia. The GOP side of the Intelligence Committee could spend the whole time asking whether there were any cats in FBI HQ and you'll see those same people on Facebook saying that the real problem is all the goddamn mice at the Hoover.
posted by Etrigan at 8:08 AM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
Rogers: Explicitly denies asking British GCHQ to wiretap Trump. "Violates our agreement with the Five Eyes".
posted by Freon at 8:09 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Freon at 8:09 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
I love how Schiff is methodically flaying the Trump administration in careful detail at this hearing.
...and taking his time with it.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:10 AM on March 20, 2017 [20 favorites]
...and taking his time with it.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:10 AM on March 20, 2017 [20 favorites]
In the third scenario, Russia is a very big deal. Comey, in other words, has significant investigative equities to protect and he believes that he needs to be there in order to protect them—in other words, that he has a responsibility to not get himself fired because of his anger about the Trump tweets (or anything else) because he has to make sure the investigation can proceed unimpeded. In this situation, I would expect him to be minimally verbal. He may have to answer yes or no questions in certain instances, including about the truth of the wiretapping allegations, but he will refuse to answer a lot of questions. He will make as little news as humanly possible. He will be exceptionally spare with his opinions. He will make a point of not antagonizing the President. Lots of people will leave disappointed.Really?
By my read, that what I'm seeing from Comey's comments so far.
I'm not sure at all how you're getting that.
This is the same Comey who issued a huge scolding statement about how while, if you really want to be technical, he supposes, grudgingly, that HRC wasn't actually breaking any laws, but she was totally a horrible evil awful person who was vile and disgusting and doing bad things.
We're talking about the same Comey who issued his final blow against Clinton with a perfectly timed and malicious statement that oh wait, surprise, maybe (wink wink, nudge nudge) that evil horrible vile Clinton really did need to go to jail after we look at this amazing surprise evidence we found on this computer belonging to a Democratic sex offender!
We are, in other words, talking about James Comey the hard right Republican operative who deliberately and with malice aforethought abandoned any and all pretense that the FBI was non-partisan and who worked diligently and with great success to get Trump elected.
And you think there's the slightest possibility that his tight lipped refusal to talk about Trump's likely crimes is anything but stonewalling from a Trump partisan? You really think there's any chance at all that Comey, the man who in all likelihood is directly and personally responsible for Trump winning in 2016, is being cagey because he hopes to bring Trump down with a criminal prosecution?
Please, let's not be suckers here. Comey won't save us. He doomed us and he hates us, he is not our friend or secret ally.
posted by sotonohito at 8:12 AM on March 20, 2017 [50 favorites]
We only comment on ongoing investigations when they're against Hilary Clinton"
Comey did actually address this. He said something like "Some may want to compare my unwillingness to comment on this investigation to other situations in which I have commented. I would point out that in those cases I have commented on closed investigations."
If he's making a point of the fact that the e-mail investigation was closed at the time, that's actually a refutation of Republican talking points about it (that it had supposedly been "re-opened.") I still keep going to back to Giuliani claiming that if Comey hadn't sent that letter, the New York FBI office would've leaked the thing about the laptop e-mails anyway. I continue to think it is possible his hand was forced, and to hope that he is actually serious about doing his job. I haven't seen a lot of evidence to the contrary, assuming that the threat of a leak from the New York office was real.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:13 AM on March 20, 2017 [37 favorites]
Comey did actually address this. He said something like "Some may want to compare my unwillingness to comment on this investigation to other situations in which I have commented. I would point out that in those cases I have commented on closed investigations."
If he's making a point of the fact that the e-mail investigation was closed at the time, that's actually a refutation of Republican talking points about it (that it had supposedly been "re-opened.") I still keep going to back to Giuliani claiming that if Comey hadn't sent that letter, the New York FBI office would've leaked the thing about the laptop e-mails anyway. I continue to think it is possible his hand was forced, and to hope that he is actually serious about doing his job. I haven't seen a lot of evidence to the contrary, assuming that the threat of a leak from the New York office was real.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:13 AM on March 20, 2017 [37 favorites]
And you think there's the slightest possibility that his tight lipped refusal to talk about Trump's likely crimes is anything but stonewalling from a Trump partisan?
Uh, yeah I do. I don't think that Comey's a Trump partisan. Remember, everyone thought Hillary was going to win.
I think that Comey has a strong distaste for the Trump administration, particularly given the USDOJ's refusal to side with the FBI on rejecting wiretap info.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:15 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Uh, yeah I do. I don't think that Comey's a Trump partisan. Remember, everyone thought Hillary was going to win.
I think that Comey has a strong distaste for the Trump administration, particularly given the USDOJ's refusal to side with the FBI on rejecting wiretap info.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:15 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Comey: Investigations began in late July
posted by Freon at 8:15 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Freon at 8:15 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
(And I think Comey's tut-tutting about Clinton, while finding no cause to charge her with anything, was actually kind of necessary to convince Republicans that he had approached the task seriously... and didn't do her much harm. And I mean, he IS the head of the FBI. He can't sound like he has any tolerance for careless handling of classified info. I think normally the AG would have given that speech instead, but the Lynch was trying to stay out of it, after having a conversation with Bill Clinton that she shouldn't have had. So yeah, I actually see signs that Comey has been operating in good faith, at least potentially?)
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:18 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:18 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's really scary how the GOP has fallen into line with Trump personally. Like, Pence would be fine with them, right? They could have already impeached Trump and claimed that the cancer had been excised and now everything's fine so don't worry about how Honest President Mike is criminalizing fellatio and cutting the top tax bracket to 2%, but they just can't bring themselves to do it.
Putin's Pet in the Oval Office won't shut the fuck up about anything. If they were to impeach him, he'd probably get real spiteful and say tons of nasty, electorally harmful things about theRepublicans Heirs of Jefferson Davis.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:19 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Putin's Pet in the Oval Office won't shut the fuck up about anything. If they were to impeach him, he'd probably get real spiteful and say tons of nasty, electorally harmful things about the
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:19 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is shallow, but Trey Gowdy really looks like Voldemort when he's not fully come back to life yet.
...and he's got Malfoy hair.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:20 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
...and he's got Malfoy hair.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:20 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Given Comey's penchant for sass today, I was hoping he'd respond to the "Are you familiar with Roger Stone?" question with "Unfortunately."
posted by leotrotsky at 8:22 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 8:22 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
So Comey confirmed the White House is the subject of a counterintelligence investigation and that Trump's tweets are BS. Spicey time in a bit more than two hours. Think he's started drinking yet?
posted by zachlipton at 8:22 AM on March 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:22 AM on March 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
Comey seems annoyed by the constant "Leaks are bad, amirite?" questions. "As I said..." "As Rogers just explained."
posted by Room 641-A at 8:23 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 8:23 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Comey: Investigations began in late July
While in October Comey downplayed the existence of any investigation to the NYT.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:24 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
While in October Comey downplayed the existence of any investigation to the NYT.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:24 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
zzzzzzzz wake me up when they stop talking about the fucking leaks
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:24 AM on March 20, 2017
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:24 AM on March 20, 2017
-fly to KY for rally.
Also, "fly to KY for rally." is the world's shittiest masturbation euphemism.
posted by Talez at 8:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [36 favorites]
Also, "fly to KY for rally." is the world's shittiest masturbation euphemism.
posted by Talez at 8:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [36 favorites]
Comey seems annoyed by the constant "Leaks are bad, amirite?" questions. "As I said..." "As Rogers just explained."
Which is exactly right. "Your dumb attempts to pivot are dumb"
posted by mikelieman at 8:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Which is exactly right. "Your dumb attempts to pivot are dumb"
posted by mikelieman at 8:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Can someone tell me where Gowdy is going with this? Is he trying to implicate the Obama admin as potential sources of leaks?
edit: oh, yeah he is. Expelliarmus, motherfcuker.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
edit: oh, yeah he is. Expelliarmus, motherfcuker.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think Comey's tut-tutting about Clinton, while finding no cause to charge her with anything, was actually kind of necessary to convince Republicans that he had approached the task seriously... and didn't do her much harm.
Are you writing from the alternate universe where Clinton won? And, can you get me in, pretty please?
posted by Dashy at 8:26 AM on March 20, 2017 [19 favorites]
Are you writing from the alternate universe where Clinton won? And, can you get me in, pretty please?
posted by Dashy at 8:26 AM on March 20, 2017 [19 favorites]
And as Twitter is helpfully pointing out, tutting about leaks is rich coming from Gowdy whose Benghazi committee leaked like a bucket with no bottom.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:26 AM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:26 AM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
Arguably the leaks ARE the most important thing to these people, otherwise how can they continue to commet thier crimes?
posted by valkane at 8:27 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by valkane at 8:27 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
My read is that he's trying to suggest that the white house leaked the information, and also that the FBI should be investigating that.
posted by birdheist at 8:27 AM on March 20, 2017
posted by birdheist at 8:27 AM on March 20, 2017
Yeah, Gowdy is trying to suggest that Obama loyalists are responsible for leaks about the ongoing investigation — and further is trying to press Comey on why he's investigating the Trump administration rather than the Obama administration, which is clearly the problem here.
posted by Mothlight at 8:27 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Mothlight at 8:27 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Gowdy is playing to the rightwing base here, in Breitbart land this hearing is about the leakers, not Trump ties to Russia.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:29 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:29 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Hmmm. So the REAL problem in Baltimore is that the police are tapping phones." - Republicans watching The Wire
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 8:29 AM on March 20, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 8:29 AM on March 20, 2017 [23 favorites]
Which is exactly right. "Your dumb attempts to pivot are dumb"
Oh, yes, it's a good sign. So, surprising.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:29 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh, yes, it's a good sign. So, surprising.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:29 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
MAN, the gymnastics Gowdy goes through avoiding saying the name "Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III"
posted by mikelieman at 8:30 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mikelieman at 8:30 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Gowdy's "subtle" threat to withdraw funding from the FBI has not gone unnoticed(by me, anyways)
posted by Yowser at 8:31 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 8:31 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Gowdy's "subtle" threat to withdraw funding from the FBI has not gone unnoticed
He also threatened reauthorization of Section 702 authority, which is a pretty incredible reversal from the standard GOP position.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
He also threatened reauthorization of Section 702 authority, which is a pretty incredible reversal from the standard GOP position.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
White House with the ALL CAPS statement that Obama-era officials said there's no evidence of collusion or scandal, as Republicans in Congress are attacking the same Obama officials and the White House accuses the same Obama officials of wiretapping Trump.
posted by zachlipton at 8:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trey Gowdey is another white guy, like Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, whose never had to bring more than his C- game to anything. As a prosecutor, all he mostly ever had to do was lean on the power of his office to get plea bargain convictions from people with little money or institutional power. While questioning Hillary Clinton during the Benghazi witch hunt, he looked like such a dipshit asshole precisely because he is not used to questioning his intellectual and professional equals superiors.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:34 AM on March 20, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:34 AM on March 20, 2017 [32 favorites]
lol. Schiff providing background for 'awareness', regardless of Stone's ability to respond!
posted by mikelieman at 8:34 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by mikelieman at 8:34 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
The day I don't have to read the words 'fake news' will be the day that I become a happy person again. These sound bite phrases (along with everything else coming out of Tr*mp's reign) are just killing me.
posted by h00py at 8:35 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by h00py at 8:35 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
>I think Comey's tut-tutting about Clinton... didn't do her any harm
Are you writing from the alternate universe where Clinton won? And, can you get me in, pretty please?
I mean, that was in July, I think? Her polls went down temporarily and then soared after the Democratic national convention. Whatever harm it did, she recovered very well from it. I think by saying "We take this seriously, but she didn't do anything criminal" he actually helped defang the e-mails. Had he seemed to blow it off, Republicans would have been howling about bias and insufficiently thorough investigations.
... Again with this "We have to re-authorize section 702 this fall, you know" from Gowdy this time, and "Uh, this has nothing to do with 702, though" from Comey this time.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:35 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Are you writing from the alternate universe where Clinton won? And, can you get me in, pretty please?
I mean, that was in July, I think? Her polls went down temporarily and then soared after the Democratic national convention. Whatever harm it did, she recovered very well from it. I think by saying "We take this seriously, but she didn't do anything criminal" he actually helped defang the e-mails. Had he seemed to blow it off, Republicans would have been howling about bias and insufficiently thorough investigations.
... Again with this "We have to re-authorize section 702 this fall, you know" from Gowdy this time, and "Uh, this has nothing to do with 702, though" from Comey this time.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:35 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Schiff is bringing up the Roger Stone - Guccifer 2.0 contacts. AND the Roger Stone - Julian Assange contacts.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 8:35 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 8:35 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Personal responsibility to the extent it's a useful idea at all (and I think it is a necessary goal, even if not always a practical reality) only applies in any meaningful way to the choices we freely make. The more economic stress people are under, the less capable of thinking through their choices rationally and choosing freely people are. Personal responsibility isn't a given, it's created by having the kinds of social and political attitudes and support structures that foster and protect it from being compromised. The whole point of law should be to try to create social conditions that give people the agency to achieve the kind of minimal socially constructed levels of personal responsibility and financial security a society needs for its members to be able to trust and cooperate effectively and accomplish larger scale and longer term goals. The Republicans have corrupted a lot of important ideas by being so absolutist and puritanical about their own conceptions of them. They've ruined the idea of free speech by twisting it around to defend hate speech and other acts of intolerance and social aggression equivocated with legitimate political expression, while defending corporate law that curtails speech people rely on to defend themselves from persecution and to discuss meaningful political topics like their social conditions. The Republicans have poisoned the well and created these conditions by forcing their extremism on the rest of us and ignoring the implications of their bad faith political exploitation of basic ideas societies depend on to organize themselves at the lowest levels, like rights and responsibilities.
posted by saulgoodman at 8:36 AM on March 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by saulgoodman at 8:36 AM on March 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
Of course, at this point talking about the Supreme Court, investigations, or Comey, or whatever seems kind of like whistling past the graveyard to me. I'm very close to convinced that we're now inevitably on track to major wars, major disruption of trade, and the massive humanitarian crisis that will involve. I'm pretty sure that even if Trump was removed from office tomorrow the damage has already been done and there's no way to avoid the collapse of the current world order.
One of the biggest problems with the Trump administration, and the lack of panic about it, is the problem of normalization.
In this case I don't actually mean the problem that we're normalizing Trump's dangerous behavior but rather that most people today have grown up suffering the delusion that the current environment of (relative) peace and prosperity is normal rather than a historic abnormality that is maintained only by intense effort.
It doesn't take long for any new situation to become normal, to move from something new, novel, and amazing to being just the way the world is. Whatever things were like when you were a kid is automatically normal, but to an extent even as adults once something has persisted for even 20 years or so the novelty wears off.
We see this with the antivax crowd. There's a reason why very few people over the age of 65 or so support the antivax movement and why most of the antivaxers are under 40. Because old people remember what a pre-vaccine world was like. To us comparatively younger people it's normal to think of sickness as kind of unpleasant but ultimately no big deal. Yes, a few days (maybe even weeks at the worst) of discomfort and annoyance, but then you're back on your feet with no problems.
And, thanks entirely to vaccines, that's the case. But since we've had vaccines for the real horror diseases for so long their absence is now viewed as normal by first worlders so people stop seeing the hard, expensive, work of maintaining that "normal" situation as being actually necessary and start seeing it as some sort of obnoxious thing that can be done away with. Thus the existence of antivaxers.
There's something similar going on with the political world.
Prior to the end of WWII the world was fairly constantly awash with war between major powers. For almost all of human history that was normal, there'd be a giant bloodbath of a war every few years and, oh well, what are you going to do? Warmongers gonna mong, you know? Can't change human nature. Just get used to it, because that's life.
After WWII and the development of atom bombs that casual acceptance of large scale wars between major powers couldn't be sustained. So a huge amount of diplomacy was engaged in, deals were cut, painful choices were made, and a new world order were there weren't wars between major powers was established.
It didn't actually produce peace, in the sense of there being no more wars, but it **DID** change the world situation in such a way that there were no more major wars. The major powers were allowed to continue attacking minor powers, they could even have sort of proxy wars between minor powers, but not direct confrontation between each other.
WWII resulted in the death of over 60 million people, around 3% of the world's population at the time. WWI resulted in the death of around 17 million people. The US Civil War and US Revolutionary wars both resulted in the death of around 2% of the US population at the time.
Pre-WWII war tended to result in the death of anywhere from 1% to 25% of the populations of the nations involved.
Post-WWII conflict was vastly reduced in scale and deadliness. Not that it's good these days, but the scale of death is vastly lower. Nowhere near even 1% of the population is killed in modern wars. Even the Vietnam War, bad as it was, resulted in vastly fewer deaths for the US than prior wars had (less than .1% of the US population died in the Vietnam war) [1].
This has had plenty of time to become "normal" for us in the first world and major powers, and like with vaccines, there are now people who may intellectually understand that the current situation is the result of endless labor and compromise and diplomacy, on an emotional level they believe that the current state of (relative) peace is normal. To the average American, or European, war is not a horrific bloodbath but a minor scuffle where perhaps a lot of foreigners die but otherwise it's just not a big deal.
With that casual attitude towards the current world order in place among the population, Trump and his ilk in other nations feel free to destroy the work, the mechanisms, that make that "normal" situation possible. We see this with Brexit, with LePen's crap, with Trump's isolationist yet simultaneously warmongering bellicosity.
Rather than realizing that the lack of boodbath level wars in the latter part of the 20th century was the result of a delicate framework of diplomacy, lies, trade agreements, treaties, and so on, they seem to think that's just the way the world is, and always will be, so they see that entire framework as an expense, or an inconvenience, and they are working diligently to demolish it.
The result, inevitably, will be war. And not war like we've seen in our lifetimes, but war like we would like to imagine is no longer "normal". War on a scale that results not in a few tens of thousands of deaths, but war that results in tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions, of deaths. And that's assuming it doesn't go nuclear but rather stays confined to conventional weapons.
The same applies to trade. Today we take it for granted that you can go to the grocery store and get strawberries in the middle of winter, or bananas anytime you like, or fresh food of any sort no matter how out of season it is. We take it for granted that you can get a phone with parts sourced planetwide and made from materials that don't occur in the US abundantly enough to produce here at all (Indium, for example, for your phone and TV's display is too scarce to mine profitably in the USA but is available in India at a profitable concentration).
That "normal" situation exists only because of a webwork of trade deals that Trump is now proposing to tear to shreds.
And once destroyed, those trade and military deals cannot be quickly restored. In large part they depend on faith, trust, and Trump is not merely talking about tearing up specific deals, but talking about breaking America's faith. And that's going to make it very close to impossible for anyone to trust us for future deals which is going to mean future deals won't be as good, or that they'll simply exclude the US to the greatest extent possible.
The Pax Americana is probably doomed already. Just by even proposing the US default on its debt we've seen the world begin to look desperately for a non-dollar reserve currency, and that alone has irreparably harmed the ability of the US to project power through trade deals and other peaceful means. Which leaves non-peaceful means...
The only real question is whether or not the end of the Pax Americana will result in a Pax Someone-else, or if it will result in a bloodbath. Neither will be good for America, but a renewal of the true normal state of frequent massive war will be worse, and Trump has advisers (Bannon especially) who have explicitly said they want wars between major powers. Steve Bannon has, literally, no exaggeration, stated that he wants a war with China.
This should be so terrifying to everyone that we see mass demonstrations on the same scale that we saw in Egypt, mass demonstrations so big, so disruptive, that they force Trump to resign and a total reformation of the government.
But because the current world order is seen as normal, most people can't see Trump's destruction of the things that enable this decidedly abnormal period of peace and prosperity to exist as an existential threat. And they won't until it's too late to do anything but hunker down and wait for the war to end.
[1] The lesser powers often experience pre-WWII level fatalities, in Vietnam around 1.2% of the population was killed during the war, and Bush's War in Iraq may have killed as much as 4% of the Iraqi population.
posted by sotonohito at 8:36 AM on March 20, 2017 [164 favorites]
One of the biggest problems with the Trump administration, and the lack of panic about it, is the problem of normalization.
In this case I don't actually mean the problem that we're normalizing Trump's dangerous behavior but rather that most people today have grown up suffering the delusion that the current environment of (relative) peace and prosperity is normal rather than a historic abnormality that is maintained only by intense effort.
It doesn't take long for any new situation to become normal, to move from something new, novel, and amazing to being just the way the world is. Whatever things were like when you were a kid is automatically normal, but to an extent even as adults once something has persisted for even 20 years or so the novelty wears off.
We see this with the antivax crowd. There's a reason why very few people over the age of 65 or so support the antivax movement and why most of the antivaxers are under 40. Because old people remember what a pre-vaccine world was like. To us comparatively younger people it's normal to think of sickness as kind of unpleasant but ultimately no big deal. Yes, a few days (maybe even weeks at the worst) of discomfort and annoyance, but then you're back on your feet with no problems.
And, thanks entirely to vaccines, that's the case. But since we've had vaccines for the real horror diseases for so long their absence is now viewed as normal by first worlders so people stop seeing the hard, expensive, work of maintaining that "normal" situation as being actually necessary and start seeing it as some sort of obnoxious thing that can be done away with. Thus the existence of antivaxers.
There's something similar going on with the political world.
Prior to the end of WWII the world was fairly constantly awash with war between major powers. For almost all of human history that was normal, there'd be a giant bloodbath of a war every few years and, oh well, what are you going to do? Warmongers gonna mong, you know? Can't change human nature. Just get used to it, because that's life.
After WWII and the development of atom bombs that casual acceptance of large scale wars between major powers couldn't be sustained. So a huge amount of diplomacy was engaged in, deals were cut, painful choices were made, and a new world order were there weren't wars between major powers was established.
It didn't actually produce peace, in the sense of there being no more wars, but it **DID** change the world situation in such a way that there were no more major wars. The major powers were allowed to continue attacking minor powers, they could even have sort of proxy wars between minor powers, but not direct confrontation between each other.
WWII resulted in the death of over 60 million people, around 3% of the world's population at the time. WWI resulted in the death of around 17 million people. The US Civil War and US Revolutionary wars both resulted in the death of around 2% of the US population at the time.
Pre-WWII war tended to result in the death of anywhere from 1% to 25% of the populations of the nations involved.
Post-WWII conflict was vastly reduced in scale and deadliness. Not that it's good these days, but the scale of death is vastly lower. Nowhere near even 1% of the population is killed in modern wars. Even the Vietnam War, bad as it was, resulted in vastly fewer deaths for the US than prior wars had (less than .1% of the US population died in the Vietnam war) [1].
This has had plenty of time to become "normal" for us in the first world and major powers, and like with vaccines, there are now people who may intellectually understand that the current situation is the result of endless labor and compromise and diplomacy, on an emotional level they believe that the current state of (relative) peace is normal. To the average American, or European, war is not a horrific bloodbath but a minor scuffle where perhaps a lot of foreigners die but otherwise it's just not a big deal.
With that casual attitude towards the current world order in place among the population, Trump and his ilk in other nations feel free to destroy the work, the mechanisms, that make that "normal" situation possible. We see this with Brexit, with LePen's crap, with Trump's isolationist yet simultaneously warmongering bellicosity.
Rather than realizing that the lack of boodbath level wars in the latter part of the 20th century was the result of a delicate framework of diplomacy, lies, trade agreements, treaties, and so on, they seem to think that's just the way the world is, and always will be, so they see that entire framework as an expense, or an inconvenience, and they are working diligently to demolish it.
The result, inevitably, will be war. And not war like we've seen in our lifetimes, but war like we would like to imagine is no longer "normal". War on a scale that results not in a few tens of thousands of deaths, but war that results in tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions, of deaths. And that's assuming it doesn't go nuclear but rather stays confined to conventional weapons.
The same applies to trade. Today we take it for granted that you can go to the grocery store and get strawberries in the middle of winter, or bananas anytime you like, or fresh food of any sort no matter how out of season it is. We take it for granted that you can get a phone with parts sourced planetwide and made from materials that don't occur in the US abundantly enough to produce here at all (Indium, for example, for your phone and TV's display is too scarce to mine profitably in the USA but is available in India at a profitable concentration).
That "normal" situation exists only because of a webwork of trade deals that Trump is now proposing to tear to shreds.
And once destroyed, those trade and military deals cannot be quickly restored. In large part they depend on faith, trust, and Trump is not merely talking about tearing up specific deals, but talking about breaking America's faith. And that's going to make it very close to impossible for anyone to trust us for future deals which is going to mean future deals won't be as good, or that they'll simply exclude the US to the greatest extent possible.
The Pax Americana is probably doomed already. Just by even proposing the US default on its debt we've seen the world begin to look desperately for a non-dollar reserve currency, and that alone has irreparably harmed the ability of the US to project power through trade deals and other peaceful means. Which leaves non-peaceful means...
The only real question is whether or not the end of the Pax Americana will result in a Pax Someone-else, or if it will result in a bloodbath. Neither will be good for America, but a renewal of the true normal state of frequent massive war will be worse, and Trump has advisers (Bannon especially) who have explicitly said they want wars between major powers. Steve Bannon has, literally, no exaggeration, stated that he wants a war with China.
This should be so terrifying to everyone that we see mass demonstrations on the same scale that we saw in Egypt, mass demonstrations so big, so disruptive, that they force Trump to resign and a total reformation of the government.
But because the current world order is seen as normal, most people can't see Trump's destruction of the things that enable this decidedly abnormal period of peace and prosperity to exist as an existential threat. And they won't until it's too late to do anything but hunker down and wait for the war to end.
[1] The lesser powers often experience pre-WWII level fatalities, in Vietnam around 1.2% of the population was killed during the war, and Bush's War in Iraq may have killed as much as 4% of the Iraqi population.
posted by sotonohito at 8:36 AM on March 20, 2017 [164 favorites]
WHOA.. Go Mr. HIMES, it's your time to shine, Stone + Manafort = ... "Foreign Agent's Registration Act"....
Who let actual litigators into Congress?
posted by mikelieman at 8:38 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Who let actual litigators into Congress?
posted by mikelieman at 8:38 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Schiff is bringing up the Roger Stone - Guccifer 2.0 contacts. AND the Roger Stone - Julian Assange contacts.
Then he yields to Mr. HIMES, and the crowd goes wild!
posted by mikelieman at 8:40 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Then he yields to Mr. HIMES, and the crowd goes wild!
posted by mikelieman at 8:40 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
I agree with all that so hard sotonohito. I'm just still hoping we can get to an impeachment before it all falls apart, and then somehow patch it back together. Which is why I'm kind of obsessed with these proceedings. And if Comey is serious about doing his job, i think there's hope of such an impeachment. If he's corrupt, though, there's probably none. So a lot hinges on the character of James Comey.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:41 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:41 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
I mean, that was in July, I think? Her polls went down temporarily and then soared after the Democratic national convention. Whatever harm it did, she recovered very well from it. I think by saying "We take this seriously, but she didn't do anything criminal" he actually helped defang the e-mails. Had he seemed to blow it off, Republicans would have been howling about bias and insufficiently thorough investigations.
Sure, and then in late October, he opened his mouth again over what turned out to be literally nothing. There's ample evidence that late-deciding voters broke for Trump. As Nate Silver put it: "Clinton would almost certainly be President-elect if the election had been held on Oct. 27 (day before Comey letter)."
posted by zachlipton at 8:42 AM on March 20, 2017 [37 favorites]
Sure, and then in late October, he opened his mouth again over what turned out to be literally nothing. There's ample evidence that late-deciding voters broke for Trump. As Nate Silver put it: "Clinton would almost certainly be President-elect if the election had been held on Oct. 27 (day before Comey letter)."
posted by zachlipton at 8:42 AM on March 20, 2017 [37 favorites]
Lambda Legal is live-tweeting the Gorsuch hearing so you don't have to.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:43 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:43 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
The day I don't have to read the words 'fake news' will be the day that I become a happy person again
Every time Trump tweets something with that phrase I respond with this picture.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:44 AM on March 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
Every time Trump tweets something with that phrase I respond with this picture.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:44 AM on March 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
So a lot hinges on the character of James Comey.
uh oh
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:46 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
uh oh
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:46 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
James Comey just obligated himself to disclose every major development in the now-confirmed Trump-Russia inquiry.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:48 AM on March 20, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:48 AM on March 20, 2017 [19 favorites]
I literally cannot get a bead on Comey. I'm desperately hoping that's because he's a True Neutral and the Truth he is pursuing is somewhere slightly to the right of what I want it to be.
posted by Freon at 8:48 AM on March 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Freon at 8:48 AM on March 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
I mean a horseshoe crab is also a True Neutral but I wouldn't depend on it to save the country from fascism.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:51 AM on March 20, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:51 AM on March 20, 2017 [26 favorites]
Sure, and then in late October, he opened his mouth again
But again, it's not clear to me that Comey did that voluntarily.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:51 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
But again, it's not clear to me that Comey did that voluntarily.
"Hours after Comey’s letter about the renewed probe was leaked on Friday, Giuliani went on a radio show and attributed the director’s surprise action to “the pressure of a group of FBI agents who don’t look at it politically.”Also from that link:
“The other rumor that I get is that there’s a kind of revolution going on inside the FBI about the original conclusion [not to charge Clinton] being completely unjustified and almost a slap in the face to the FBI’s integrity,” said Giuliani. “I know that from former agents. I know that even from a few active agents.”
Giuliani spent decades of his life as a federal prosecutor and then mayor working closely with the FBI, and especially its New York office. One of Giuliani’s security firms employed a former head of the New York FBI office, and other alumni of it. It was agents of that office, probing Anthony Weiner’s alleged sexting of a minor, who pressed Comey to authorize the review of possible Hillary Clinton-related emails on a Weiner device that led to the explosive letter the director wrote Congress.[...] Along with Giuliani’s other connections to New York FBI agents, his former law firm, then called Bracewell Giuliani, has long been general counsel to the FBI Agents Association (FBIAA), which represents 13,000 former and current agents.It's possible that one of Giuliani's (and Trump's!) friends at the New York FBI office would have leaked the existence of that laptop if Comey didn't send that letter, and Comey may have sent the letter to pre-empt the leak. There's no evidence for that, I acknowledge, but it does seem possible to me, and I continue to hold out hope.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:51 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Nunes asks if Comey will investigation Clinton ties to Russia too.
You can't make this shit up.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:52 AM on March 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
You can't make this shit up.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:52 AM on March 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
To: Sotonohito
Re: Gorsuch and democratic "spine"
the purpose of the Democratic party is to compromise the progressives; to keep them working within them sysyem, to seek incrementalism, triangulation and meet in the "middle" even if that middle is to the right of their supporters or general public opinion. (Rep party used to serve that purpose too - until teaparty &trumpski). that's because they don't work for you, they work to manage you.
During 'most divisive deadlocked congress' 8yrs still passed some near unanimous senate bills - that is the real content of both parties and that is the platform of the interests they serve. What wasn't cut when everything was getting cut? What was quick quiet and unopposed when everything else was filibustered.
Driver uses reigns to steer and harness oxen; oxen wonder why yoke doesn't respond to their needs. We need to buck and take them for a ride to the left!
If demo filibuster Gorsuch it will be fear of the left, not leadership. Otherwise we'll get told to be patient and let the professionals play 11 dimensional chess.
posted by Anchorite_of_Palgrave at 8:52 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Re: Gorsuch and democratic "spine"
the purpose of the Democratic party is to compromise the progressives; to keep them working within them sysyem, to seek incrementalism, triangulation and meet in the "middle" even if that middle is to the right of their supporters or general public opinion. (Rep party used to serve that purpose too - until teaparty &trumpski). that's because they don't work for you, they work to manage you.
During 'most divisive deadlocked congress' 8yrs still passed some near unanimous senate bills - that is the real content of both parties and that is the platform of the interests they serve. What wasn't cut when everything was getting cut? What was quick quiet and unopposed when everything else was filibustered.
Driver uses reigns to steer and harness oxen; oxen wonder why yoke doesn't respond to their needs. We need to buck and take them for a ride to the left!
If demo filibuster Gorsuch it will be fear of the left, not leadership. Otherwise we'll get told to be patient and let the professionals play 11 dimensional chess.
posted by Anchorite_of_Palgrave at 8:52 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's possible that one of Giuliani's (and Trump's!) friends at the New York FBI office would have leaked the existence of that laptop if Comey didn't send that letter, and Comey may have sent the letter to pre-empt the leak.
Having no control over his own FBI isn't much better than willful interference.
Either the FBI director interfered in the election, or the FBI itself is a rogue agency that acts for the political preferences of individual agents. No other alternative.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:54 AM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
Having no control over his own FBI isn't much better than willful interference.
Either the FBI director interfered in the election, or the FBI itself is a rogue agency that acts for the political preferences of individual agents. No other alternative.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:54 AM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
"A former student of Judge Gorsuch has alleged that last year, in the Legal Ethics and Professionalism course he taught at the University of Colorado, Judge Gorsuch made a series of comments asserting that women manipulate employers by accepting jobs without disclosing their plans to become pregnant, accepting maternity benefits from their employers, and then failing to return to work after maternity leave."
Reported Gorsuch Statements Show Disqualifying Disregard for Women’s Workplace Rights - National Women's Law Center
(apologies if this has already been posted, searching the page didn't find it)
posted by postel's law at 8:54 AM on March 20, 2017 [45 favorites]
Reported Gorsuch Statements Show Disqualifying Disregard for Women’s Workplace Rights - National Women's Law Center
(apologies if this has already been posted, searching the page didn't find it)
posted by postel's law at 8:54 AM on March 20, 2017 [45 favorites]
So a lot hinges on the character of James Comey.
so much depends
upon
a FBI director's
character
glazed with partisan
suspicions
beside the white
supremacists
posted by nubs at 8:58 AM on March 20, 2017 [48 favorites]
so much depends
upon
a FBI director's
character
glazed with partisan
suspicions
beside the white
supremacists
posted by nubs at 8:58 AM on March 20, 2017 [48 favorites]
I am not in a good mental health place, but I just wanted to thank everyone for their continued discussions in these threads. You make me feel like there remains sane and humble people in our country.
posted by INFJ at 8:58 AM on March 20, 2017 [35 favorites]
posted by INFJ at 8:58 AM on March 20, 2017 [35 favorites]
Another day, another outrage. Today this little birdie is pissed off about Chuck Schumer's caucus treating Neil Gorsuch like a normal nominee. Seems like it might be a grand day to fax Schumer (and your own Dem senators) with some righteous anger about Gorsuch.
Here's a whole letter you can use/modify:
Here's a whole letter you can use/modify:
Minority Leader Schumer,posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:59 AM on March 20, 2017 [78 favorites]
I am furious and extremely discouraged by your Democratic colleagues, including Sen. Bennett of Colorado, Sen. Feinstein of California, and many others because they have not all committed to filibuster the Neil Gorsuch SCOTUS nomination. I am mystified and infuriated that your caucus is treating this nomination like it's legitimate.
Just this morning, the FBI director confirmed that there is an on-going investigation into Russian interference and possible collusion with the Trump Campaign to interfere in our elections. His appointment is illegitimate because Donald Trump a) seems to have obtained
help from Russia to "win" the presidency and b) did not win the popular vote. Furthermore, your "Republican" colleagues stole a Supreme Court seat that was President Obama's to fill.
In addition to being an illegitimate justice, Gorsuch will be a complete flaming dumpster fire for:
- Women's reproductive rights
- Public Education
- Racial equality
- Disabled children's education
- Environmental, water, food, and drug safety
- Voting rights
- LGBTQ rights
- And the list goes on and on and on
This seat was STOLEN by the Mitch McConnell has his caucus of racist, authoritarians. I am extremely disturbed, by the Senate Democrats who are treating this nomination as if it was made by a legitimate president, not compromised by a hostile foreign government, for a seat that was not stolen.
Please tell each of these Senators that their actions endanger the support of the party base. The filibuster is dead as soon as the Republicans want it to be. Failing to stand up as a unanimous block against this nomination at all steps of the process WILL drive the base out--women, people of color, religious minorities, LGBTQ people. If the Democratic leadership won't go to the mat for this, I may have to change my registration to [independent/DSA/local progressive third party].
These are not normal times. Gorsuch should be treated with as much contempt as the majority party showed Merrick Garland--no support at all. In short, GET YOUR CAUCUS IN LINE.
Sincerely,
[Your Name]
We see this with the antivax crowd. There's a reason why very few people over the age of 65 or so support the antivax movement and why most of the antivaxers are under 40. Because old people remember what a pre-vaccine world was like. To us comparatively younger people it's normal to think of sickness as kind of unpleasant but ultimately no big deal.
Maybe fatalism is a bad thing -- maybe it's no more than taking the easy way out -- but I've become more fatalistic about these things. I wonder if it's an inevitable feature of human society and human nature that each generation has to learn the lessons and hit the same walls as all the previous generations.
It's worth noting that the 1918 Spanish Flu infected one out of every three people on the planet. 50 to 100 million people died in the course of the pandemic -- that's about 5% of the world's population. The upper end of that estimate easily surpasses the combined death tolls of WWI and WWII. And it tended to kill young, healthy people. And yet, somehow, this pandemic, even in concert with the culmination of WWI, ultimately failed to prevent the bloodbath of WWII. (And just a few years after WWII, Mao's Great Leap Forward killed as many as 50 million through a combination of death-cult lunacy (execution quotas!) and the profound administrative idiocies that led to widespread famine.)
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 8:59 AM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
Maybe fatalism is a bad thing -- maybe it's no more than taking the easy way out -- but I've become more fatalistic about these things. I wonder if it's an inevitable feature of human society and human nature that each generation has to learn the lessons and hit the same walls as all the previous generations.
It's worth noting that the 1918 Spanish Flu infected one out of every three people on the planet. 50 to 100 million people died in the course of the pandemic -- that's about 5% of the world's population. The upper end of that estimate easily surpasses the combined death tolls of WWI and WWII. And it tended to kill young, healthy people. And yet, somehow, this pandemic, even in concert with the culmination of WWI, ultimately failed to prevent the bloodbath of WWII. (And just a few years after WWII, Mao's Great Leap Forward killed as many as 50 million through a combination of death-cult lunacy (execution quotas!) and the profound administrative idiocies that led to widespread famine.)
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 8:59 AM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
Comey to Conaway: "You seem real dumb, so let me just continue with this tortured sports metaphor you introduced so that you can understand what I am saying."
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:00 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:00 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
So Conaway's arguing that just because Putin wanted Clinton to lose doesn't mean he wanted Trump to win.
posted by klarck at 9:01 AM on March 20, 2017
posted by klarck at 9:01 AM on March 20, 2017
Conaway: "How did the Washington Post have almost the same language on December 9th as the report give to this committee on January 6th."
Comey: [apparently genuinely taken aback, turns to Rogers and gives an aside] "It hadn't even been written yet!"
posted by Freon at 9:02 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Comey: [apparently genuinely taken aback, turns to Rogers and gives an aside] "It hadn't even been written yet!"
posted by Freon at 9:02 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
My idea for the day: a remake of The Lion in Winter set in the Trump White House.
Trump lets Melania out of Trump Tower for Christmas. (God, who could play her?)
Inter-sibling plotting and skullduggery among Donald Jr., Eric and Barron. Barron running around the table going, "he's got a knife!" as Eric threatens him.
Melania going "It's 2017 and we're barbarians!"
Someone reminiscent of a young Timothy Dalton as the Russian agent making demands on behalf of Vladimir Putin.
How Ivanka fits in is left as an exercise for the reader.
Come on, think about it. It would be freaking EPIC!
posted by Naberius at 9:06 AM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
Trump lets Melania out of Trump Tower for Christmas. (God, who could play her?)
Inter-sibling plotting and skullduggery among Donald Jr., Eric and Barron. Barron running around the table going, "he's got a knife!" as Eric threatens him.
Melania going "It's 2017 and we're barbarians!"
Someone reminiscent of a young Timothy Dalton as the Russian agent making demands on behalf of Vladimir Putin.
How Ivanka fits in is left as an exercise for the reader.
Come on, think about it. It would be freaking EPIC!
posted by Naberius at 9:06 AM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
My idea for the day: a remake of The Lion in Winter set in the Trump White House.
Set it in Florida and call it "The Lyin' in Winter White House"
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:09 AM on March 20, 2017 [22 favorites]
Set it in Florida and call it "The Lyin' in Winter White House"
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:09 AM on March 20, 2017 [22 favorites]
Maggie Haberman is pointing out that Priebus went on Meet the Press last month and claimed the Times report that the FBI was investigating Russian ties was "totally wrong." This obviously conflicts with what Comey just told us this morning.
posted by zachlipton at 9:09 AM on March 20, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:09 AM on March 20, 2017 [25 favorites]
I find if you just assume Priebus is always lying you get a more accurate picture.
posted by corb at 9:15 AM on March 20, 2017 [46 favorites]
posted by corb at 9:15 AM on March 20, 2017 [46 favorites]
Trump lets Melania out of Trump Tower for Christmas. (God, who could play her?)
Laura Benanti, of course.
posted by zakur at 9:16 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Laura Benanti, of course.
posted by zakur at 9:16 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
That's true of everybody on Trump's staff.
posted by notyou at 9:16 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by notyou at 9:16 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
if you turn his puzzle box clockwise he can only tell the truth, turn it counterclockwise and he can only tell lies
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:16 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:16 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
> If demo filibuster Gorsuch it will be fear of the left, not leadership. Otherwise we'll get told to be patient and let the professionals play 11 dimensional chess.
This is why the frame I've adopted for interactions with the democratic party involved thinking of the leadership not as our leaders, but instead as our victims. Unfortunately, they're not afraid enough of us yet.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:17 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
This is why the frame I've adopted for interactions with the democratic party involved thinking of the leadership not as our leaders, but instead as our victims. Unfortunately, they're not afraid enough of us yet.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:17 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
speaking of puzzle boxes: everything the administration says also makes more sense if you imagine them as cenobites
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:18 AM on March 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:18 AM on March 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
that's not fair to cenobites
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:19 AM on March 20, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:19 AM on March 20, 2017 [27 favorites]
I have been saying "Jesus wept" more often lately...
posted by J.K. Seazer at 9:20 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by J.K. Seazer at 9:20 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Fascinating as all this discussion about emoluments with regard to Flynn and the RT dinner is, I don't understand why China awarding the Trump trademarks isn't game, set, and match. They're clearly items of value that benefit Trump personally, and they come from a foreign government.
Shouldn't they be treated as gifts and be auctioned by the US Government to the highest bidder? I'm sure someone can have some fun with them.
posted by zachlipton at 9:20 AM on March 20, 2017 [36 favorites]
Shouldn't they be treated as gifts and be auctioned by the US Government to the highest bidder? I'm sure someone can have some fun with them.
posted by zachlipton at 9:20 AM on March 20, 2017 [36 favorites]
that's not fair to cenobites
"your suffering will be legendary, even in mar-a-lago"
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:21 AM on March 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
"your suffering will be legendary, even in mar-a-lago"
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:21 AM on March 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
Nunes is trying to make this explicitly partisan, asking a series of questions that apparently relate to something in the classified report about whether Russians generally prefer Republicans or Democrats.
The more he treats this as a partisan issue, the more he argues that this investigation needs to be done by an independent commission.
posted by zachlipton at 9:24 AM on March 20, 2017 [30 favorites]
The more he treats this as a partisan issue, the more he argues that this investigation needs to be done by an independent commission.
posted by zachlipton at 9:24 AM on March 20, 2017 [30 favorites]
Ha! Comey and Rogers COULD NOT tell Nunes that a Russian preference for Republican candidates is just plain ridiculous.
posted by klarck at 9:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by klarck at 9:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Cenobites are Lawful Evil and strictly bound by rules.
posted by Artw at 9:40 AM on March 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:40 AM on March 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
Can I just take this lull to admire what an absolutely devastating prosecutor Schiff must have been? Everyone else on this committee tries to make their point with long rambling speeches for the record, and then asks pro forma questions in an attempt to bolster their thesis. But Schiff asks a serious of short, answerable questions and walks you to his conclusions. It feels incredibly effective while also being soundbite friendly.
posted by Freon at 9:44 AM on March 20, 2017 [74 favorites]
posted by Freon at 9:44 AM on March 20, 2017 [74 favorites]
D'oh! Senator Kamala Harris, who is on the Senate Intelligence Committee, will obviously not be on hand at the House Intelligence Committee hearing.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:47 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Room 641-A at 9:47 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Can I just take this lull to admire what an absolutely devastating prosecutor Schiff must have been?
Yeah, before he got promoted, got old and tired, and began ending every conversation with his staff by grumbling out a weary "Take the plea." Oh wait, wrong Adam Schiff.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 9:48 AM on March 20, 2017 [28 favorites]
Yeah, before he got promoted, got old and tired, and began ending every conversation with his staff by grumbling out a weary "Take the plea." Oh wait, wrong Adam Schiff.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 9:48 AM on March 20, 2017 [28 favorites]
Speier (D)-CA: Russian interference an "Act of war."
posted by Freon at 9:49 AM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Freon at 9:49 AM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
Comey: "They were unusually loud in their intervention. It's almost as if they didn't care that we know what they were doing."
posted by zachlipton at 9:53 AM on March 20, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:53 AM on March 20, 2017 [30 favorites]
Paul Ryan: Another one heads to President Trump’s desk. This legislation allows states to have drug testing to receive federal unemployment benefits.
Erik Blad: Arizona spent $3,600,000 drug testing 87,000 welfare recipients. 1 tested positive for a fine of $560.
posted by porn in the woods at 9:53 AM on March 20, 2017 [88 favorites]
Erik Blad: Arizona spent $3,600,000 drug testing 87,000 welfare recipients. 1 tested positive for a fine of $560.
posted by porn in the woods at 9:53 AM on March 20, 2017 [88 favorites]
So is this the moment that Bannon pulls out the Long Knives.
I mean SURELY THIS should be the end of Trump, right? Either he goes or he purges.
posted by dis_integration at 9:54 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
I mean SURELY THIS should be the end of Trump, right? Either he goes or he purges.
posted by dis_integration at 9:54 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
I appreciate that none of the Republicans on the Intelligence Committee has expressed any doubts about the fact that the Russians did, in fact, hack the DNC and John Podesta. So far ordinary Republicans I have interacted with remain skeptical of those conclusions. I hope that the acceptance of even the Republicans on this committee will help lead to greater public acceptance of that basic fact.
Oh -- Comey saying "They were unusually loud in their intervention. It's almost as if they didn't care that we know what they were doing or wanted us to know what they were doing." I've thought that was kind of weird all along as well.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:54 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
Oh -- Comey saying "They were unusually loud in their intervention. It's almost as if they didn't care that we know what they were doing or wanted us to know what they were doing." I've thought that was kind of weird all along as well.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:54 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
Meanwhile, @POTUS is being used to tweet falsehoods about the hearing in progress.
posted by zachlipton at 9:54 AM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 9:54 AM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
Speier we have other things to worry about then declaring war with fucking Russia.
posted by INFJ at 9:54 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by INFJ at 9:54 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
roomthreeseventeen: “But at the same time, we have a lot of friends and family and neighbors who just don’t have a lot going for them. There is a population out there that needs Medicaid. That’s the dilemma.”
I think he meant to say "everyone needs reliable, affordable medical coverage." Medicaid is just the "brand" that we have to fill this gap.
Because we could make all this a lot more simple and go single payer, or go "full socialist" and make providing health care a function of the government. But no, that would be taking money from therich entrepreneurs who operate insurance companies.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:55 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think he meant to say "everyone needs reliable, affordable medical coverage." Medicaid is just the "brand" that we have to fill this gap.
Because we could make all this a lot more simple and go single payer, or go "full socialist" and make providing health care a function of the government. But no, that would be taking money from the
posted by filthy light thief at 9:55 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Comey now saying that it's possible the reason the Russians were so "loud" was that the Russians were hoping that the US Gov't would make a big deal of the hacking and undermine public confidence in the elections. Such a tricky tightrope Obama was walking...
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:56 AM on March 20, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:56 AM on March 20, 2017 [27 favorites]
Oh -- Comey saying "They were unusually loud in their intervention. It's almost as if they didn't care that we know what they were doing or wanted us to know what they were doing." I've thought that was kind of weird all along as well.
Seems to have worked out well for them, the Republican party immediately became Russia's puppet ruling party running cover for their interference as we speak. It's a foregone conclusion that Republicans will roll over for the next act of overt Russian aggression as well. There was no need to hide their involvement when the Republican beneficiaries have no motive or inclination to retaliate. They perfectly executed a coup.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:00 AM on March 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
Seems to have worked out well for them, the Republican party immediately became Russia's puppet ruling party running cover for their interference as we speak. It's a foregone conclusion that Republicans will roll over for the next act of overt Russian aggression as well. There was no need to hide their involvement when the Republican beneficiaries have no motive or inclination to retaliate. They perfectly executed a coup.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:00 AM on March 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
A remarkable statement from Comey: "They'll be back." He's saying that the Russians will conclude that they successfully undermined the democratic process and will do this again. From the closed captions:
posted by zachlipton at 10:04 AM on March 20, 2017 [73 favorites]
Maybe I'll say as a initial matter, they'll be back. They'll be back in 2020, may be back in 2018, and one of the lessons they may draw from this is that they were successful because they introduced chaos and division and discord and sewed doubt about the nature of this amazing country of ours and this democratic process. It is possible they're misreading that as it worked, and so we'll come back and hit them again in 2020. I don't know. But we have to assume they're coming back. I fully expect that they continue this level of activity, because our sense is they have come to the conclusion that it generated a positive outcome for them in the sense that calling into question democratic process, for example, is one element of the strategy. We're working closely. We, our FBI team is working closely with our European teammates to provide the insights we have seen to try to assist them as they themselves, France, Germany, for example, about to undergo significant national leadership elections over the course of the next two months.And as for the @POTUS tweets, how utterly ridiculous is it that we're so far down the rabbit hole that the White House is putting out video of the guy currently testifying that they are the target of a counterintelligence investigation as if they don't realize that the President being under investigation for collusion with a foreign power IS SO NOT NORMAL.
posted by zachlipton at 10:04 AM on March 20, 2017 [73 favorites]
I mean SURELY THIS should be the end of Trump, right? Either he goes or he purges.
So you think Bannon will purge Trump? Bold move.
posted by scalefree at 10:04 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
So you think Bannon will purge Trump? Bold move.
posted by scalefree at 10:04 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Don't get your hopes up. Between the legitimate fear of pissing of our #1 commercial partner and the fact that Trudeau is not the brave leader some people think he is (see electoral reform). Opposition won't come from the north.
The recent turn of some against Trudeau really feels like a giant wave of Bernie Bro 'but her emails' style letting perfection be the enemy of the good.
posted by srboisvert at 10:05 AM on March 20, 2017 [19 favorites]
The recent turn of some against Trudeau really feels like a giant wave of Bernie Bro 'but her emails' style letting perfection be the enemy of the good.
posted by srboisvert at 10:05 AM on March 20, 2017 [19 favorites]
Ari Berman: In E-mails, Neil Gorsuch Praised a Leading Republican Activist Behind Voter Suppression Efforts
posted by zombieflanders at 10:06 AM on March 20, 2017 [30 favorites]
Few people in the Republican Party have done more to limit voting rights than Hans von Spakovsky. He’s been instrumental in spreading the myth of widespread voter fraud and backing new restrictions to make it harder to vote.Add this to his straight-up MRA rhetoric, support of the Hobby Lobby decision, state's rights to discriminate against LGBTQ people, and apparently being totes cool with the Contras in the 80s. And since so these are the issues that even many NeverTrumpers are cool with, I imagine we'll start seeing a lot of "moderate" and libertarian enablers coming up with reasons why Gorsuch isn't such a bad guy.
But it appears that von Spakovsky had an admirer in Neil Gorsuch, Donald Trump’s nominee for the Supreme Court, according to e-mails released to the Senate Judiciary Committee covering Gorsuch’s time working in the George W. Bush Administration.
[...]
More recently, von Spakovsky has argued against that the Voting Rights Act was “constitutionally dubious at the time of its enactment” and praised Trump’s promised investigation into voter fraud, which has been widely panned by Democrats and Republicans. “The real problem in our election system is that we don’t really know to what extent President Trump’s claim is true because we have an election system that is based on the honor system,” he wrote with John Fund after Trump said with no evidence that 3 million to 5 million people voted illegally.
Given that von Spakovsky hailed Gorsuch as “the perfect pick for Trump,” it’s safe to assume he believes that the Supreme Court nominee shares his views. The Senate needs to aggressively question Gorsuch to see if that’s the case.
Gorsuch has already cited Justice Antonin Scalia as a role model, who said the Voting Rights Act had led to a “perpetuation of racial entitlement.” Gorsuch, if confirmed, could be the deciding vote on whether to weaken the remaining sections of the VRA and whether to uphold discriminatory voter-ID laws and redistricting plans from states like North Carolina and Texas. In many ways, the fate of voting rights in the United States hangs on this nomination.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:06 AM on March 20, 2017 [30 favorites]
Comey may have sent the letter to pre-empt the leak.
So according to your interpretation Comey was worried that his agents would commit a crime by illegally leaking information about an investigation, or had already committed a crime by leaking to Guiliani, so he attempted to cover up the crime by leaking the information himself.
Apparently we was more worried about protecting his own reputation and the reputation of the FBI than he cared about the integrity of democratic elections. Seems that he should be spending more time prosecuting the crimes in his own division.
posted by JackFlash at 10:07 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
So according to your interpretation Comey was worried that his agents would commit a crime by illegally leaking information about an investigation, or had already committed a crime by leaking to Guiliani, so he attempted to cover up the crime by leaking the information himself.
Apparently we was more worried about protecting his own reputation and the reputation of the FBI than he cared about the integrity of democratic elections. Seems that he should be spending more time prosecuting the crimes in his own division.
posted by JackFlash at 10:07 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
The recent turn of some against Trudeau really feels like a giant wave of Bernie Bro 'but her emails' style letting perfection be the enemy of the good.
I mean it's not like there's a better part of a decade of Harper fresh in the memory and a right wing fucking lunatic south of the border or anything...
posted by Talez at 10:07 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
I mean it's not like there's a better part of a decade of Harper fresh in the memory and a right wing fucking lunatic south of the border or anything...
posted by Talez at 10:07 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Comey: they were successful because they introduced chaos and division and discord and sewed doubt about the nature of
Whenever he says stuff like this, I want to commit violent acts upon his person. He does know he played right into their fucking hands, doesn't he?
posted by INFJ at 10:07 AM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
Whenever he says stuff like this, I want to commit violent acts upon his person. He does know he played right into their fucking hands, doesn't he?
posted by INFJ at 10:07 AM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
WaPo: Trump dismisses a poll that doesn’t exist for coming from an inaccurate pollster that wasn’t
posted by zachlipton at 10:09 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:09 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
Oh no! Trudeau is a supporter of oil sands! Well that's it, time to split the vote to the NDP and send the conservatives back to power! That'll show those fucking liberals!
posted by Talez at 10:09 AM on March 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Talez at 10:09 AM on March 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
Add this to his straight-up MRA rhetoric, support of the Hobby Lobby decision, state's rights to discriminate against LGBTQ people, and apparently being totes cool with the Contras in the 80s. And since so these are the issues that even many NeverTrumpers are cool with, I imagine we'll start seeing a lot of "moderate" and libertarian enablers coming up with reasons why Gorsuch isn't such a bad guy.
Took the words right out of my mouth.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:09 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Took the words right out of my mouth.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:09 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't want to derail this too much into Canadian politics, but obviously Trudeau is better than Harper, and obviously he will be better than whoever the Conservatives barf up as their candidate in the next election...but I can't help but think that (in light of recent events) the Liberals know this and have been backing away from some of their promises safe in the knowledge that a lot of voters will vote against the Conservatives rather than for the Liberals.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:10 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:10 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Apologies to Sonohito didn't mean to scold/patronize, I'm just an angry Anchorite who wants to push the Dems to filibuster... for 4 years.
Also re: Comey
Trump voters might not care that Trump sold out country to Putin; but rest of country with less kool-aid in them will. Small shifts in votes have big impacts.
÷I hope ÷
posted by Anchorite_of_Palgrave at 10:11 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Also re: Comey
Trump voters might not care that Trump sold out country to Putin; but rest of country with less kool-aid in them will. Small shifts in votes have big impacts.
÷I hope ÷
posted by Anchorite_of_Palgrave at 10:11 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Blue Jello Elf: Since the GOP is on its "run government like a business" hobbyhorse, someone should warn them that "the company will no longer pay for business cards!" is one of the early warning signs of bad management.
Or, that instead of being run like a business, it's being underfunded like a public school.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:12 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Or, that instead of being run like a business, it's being underfunded like a public school.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:12 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Add this to his straight-up MRA rhetoric, support of the Hobby Lobby decision, state's rights to discriminate against LGBTQ people, and apparently being totes cool with the Contras in the 80s. And since so these are the issues that even many NeverTrumpers are cool with, I imagine we'll start seeing a lot of "moderate" and libertarian enablers coming up with reasons why Gorsuch isn't such a bad guy.
Uhh, has a single "moderate" spoken out against him? He's a perfect Republican pick in every way. They wanted Scalia 2.0, and Gorsuch is AnarchoMecha-Scalia who eats Federal regulatory authority and breathes pure "originalism".
The number one thing they supported Trump for was to maintain and extend the Right's illegitimate stranglehold on the Court for eternity, and that's the only thing he's delivered on.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:22 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
Uhh, has a single "moderate" spoken out against him? He's a perfect Republican pick in every way. They wanted Scalia 2.0, and Gorsuch is AnarchoMecha-Scalia who eats Federal regulatory authority and breathes pure "originalism".
The number one thing they supported Trump for was to maintain and extend the Right's illegitimate stranglehold on the Court for eternity, and that's the only thing he's delivered on.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:22 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
sotonohito: Instead of saying that they will oppose any nominee not named Merrick Garland [the Senate Democrats] blathered about Gorsuch being too divisive.
Yes, I don't understand why the D senators are talking about Gorsuch at all. Who cares? Hold hearings for Merrick Garland, or no hearings at all. That's a simple standard, easy to understand - a respected centrist jurist nominated by a duly-elected President got NO HEARINGS for a year. Who cares about the qualifications of the new nominee? There's already a nominee.
And if they nuke the filibuster over that, so what? What's the point of preserving something if it can never be used? Why are we still trying for comity? Merrick Garland is the only person D senators should be talking about.
(This is not even getting into the Lott standard about nominations in the last year of a presidency. The Trump presidency doesn't look like it's going to last that long, and it would be irresponsible to violate the Lott standard until we know for sure, right?)
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:24 AM on March 20, 2017 [71 favorites]
Yes, I don't understand why the D senators are talking about Gorsuch at all. Who cares? Hold hearings for Merrick Garland, or no hearings at all. That's a simple standard, easy to understand - a respected centrist jurist nominated by a duly-elected President got NO HEARINGS for a year. Who cares about the qualifications of the new nominee? There's already a nominee.
And if they nuke the filibuster over that, so what? What's the point of preserving something if it can never be used? Why are we still trying for comity? Merrick Garland is the only person D senators should be talking about.
(This is not even getting into the Lott standard about nominations in the last year of a presidency. The Trump presidency doesn't look like it's going to last that long, and it would be irresponsible to violate the Lott standard until we know for sure, right?)
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:24 AM on March 20, 2017 [71 favorites]
Or, that instead of being run like a business, it's being underfunded like a public school. repeatedly punched in the face as Bannon openly talks about how much smaller the body would have to be to fit in the bathtub.
posted by jaduncan at 10:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by jaduncan at 10:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
“Yes,” he began. “I don’t have a business card to give to you today, John, because, at the Office of Management and Budget, we have to pay for our own business cards. So it does start at home but it’s already started.”
Since the GOP is on its "run government like a business" hobbyhorse, someone should warn them that "the company will no longer pay for business cards!" is one of the early warning signs of bad management
Sorry to break it to you, but in my many years of experience with the federal government, they have never paid for my business cards. The most you could hope for was a MS Word template and a box of that pull-apart card stock you could run through the printer.
Maybe the rules are different for political appointees.
posted by suelac at 10:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Since the GOP is on its "run government like a business" hobbyhorse, someone should warn them that "the company will no longer pay for business cards!" is one of the early warning signs of bad management
Sorry to break it to you, but in my many years of experience with the federal government, they have never paid for my business cards. The most you could hope for was a MS Word template and a box of that pull-apart card stock you could run through the printer.
Maybe the rules are different for political appointees.
posted by suelac at 10:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Speier (D)-CA: Russian interference an "Act of war."
Uh. Isn't this the prerequisite for treason
posted by schadenfrau at 10:27 AM on March 20, 2017 [22 favorites]
Uh. Isn't this the prerequisite for treason
posted by schadenfrau at 10:27 AM on March 20, 2017 [22 favorites]
Yes, I don't understand why the D senators are talking about Gorsuch at all. Who cares? Hold hearings for Merrick Garland, or no hearings at all. That's a simple standard, easy to understand - a respected centrist jurist nominated by a duly-elected President got NO HEARINGS for a year. Who cares about the qualifications of the new nominee? There's already a nominee.
And if they nuke the filibuster over that, so what? What's the point of preserving something if it can never be used? Why are we still trying for comity? Merrick Garland is the only person D senators should be talking about.
They should've boycotted this farce. Gorsuch is illegitimate, period. That should've been the only talking point. Any other question he can answer is irrelevant.
Any Democrat who doesn't filibuster should be dead to us and primaried out of the party, no matter the consequences, no matter who it is. Gorsuch must be impeached at the first opportunity if Democrats ever regain control.
It's a stolen seat. Every 5-4 decision by the Illegitimate Gorsuch Court is illegitimate and Blue States should consider nullification.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:29 AM on March 20, 2017 [44 favorites]
And if they nuke the filibuster over that, so what? What's the point of preserving something if it can never be used? Why are we still trying for comity? Merrick Garland is the only person D senators should be talking about.
They should've boycotted this farce. Gorsuch is illegitimate, period. That should've been the only talking point. Any other question he can answer is irrelevant.
Any Democrat who doesn't filibuster should be dead to us and primaried out of the party, no matter the consequences, no matter who it is. Gorsuch must be impeached at the first opportunity if Democrats ever regain control.
It's a stolen seat. Every 5-4 decision by the Illegitimate Gorsuch Court is illegitimate and Blue States should consider nullification.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:29 AM on March 20, 2017 [44 favorites]
Also, if anyone has any political insight into or analysis about what is going on with the SC hearings beyond "lol democrats are spineless powerless turncoats who also somehow conspire to oppress the proletariat" I would love to hear it
Like I assume there are actual political calculations going on, as there always are, and though I want to see them filibuster the shit out of this MRA racist vote suppressing asshole, I would also like to know the actual reasoning behind the Democratic positions and actions so that I can, you know, address them when I make my phone calls
posted by schadenfrau at 10:29 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Like I assume there are actual political calculations going on, as there always are, and though I want to see them filibuster the shit out of this MRA racist vote suppressing asshole, I would also like to know the actual reasoning behind the Democratic positions and actions so that I can, you know, address them when I make my phone calls
posted by schadenfrau at 10:29 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Uh. Isn't this the prerequisite for treason
Yes, I think that was the point of her line of questioning.
posted by HotToddy at 10:30 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sorry to break it to you, but in my many years of experience with the federal government, they have never paid for my business cards.
Wait, a Trumpist taking credit for something that's always happened as though it were his own brand-new invention?
posted by Etrigan at 10:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Wait, a Trumpist taking credit for something that's always happened as though it were his own brand-new invention?
posted by Etrigan at 10:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Couple hours ago I started long comment re: Comey. Shorter version: "This just in, the fox is investigating henhouse break-in."
Who the hell is investigating Comey, that's my question. And these latest hearing remarks quoted still don't convince me he is anything other than a traitor himself. Isn't he saying the Russians gave a perception that their interference worked, not that it did?
An impeachment is such a historical, major thing, its bound to take down a lot of Republicans down with Trump.
Six years after Nixon resigned, the many dummies of this country put Raygun/Bush I in for a 12-year run. Another eight later and it was Bush's idiot kid. Eight again, and we're even farther down the food chain to tRump.
Based on my experiences, I very much agree with the proposals that you must stop trying to understand/ convert hardcore (R)s. Because guess what - at least the last time I spoke to some of my conservative relatives last summer, they even LIKED PUTIN.
I doubt a lot of extreme righties will ever be convinced Russian tampering in an US election was horrific. Because 1) It got them the results they wanted, and 2) Vlad's their kind of guy anyway. All they EVER WANT is a tough-talking Great White Daddy. (tRump-Putin 2020!)
(It's the same cognitive dissonance that makes them fear "Sharia laws," while supporting the decimation of the rights of women and others. They never get that They are the Xian version of Sharia law, just like they don't see that their need for an authoritarian leader is so very not-American.)
posted by NorthernLite at 10:34 AM on March 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
Who the hell is investigating Comey, that's my question. And these latest hearing remarks quoted still don't convince me he is anything other than a traitor himself. Isn't he saying the Russians gave a perception that their interference worked, not that it did?
An impeachment is such a historical, major thing, its bound to take down a lot of Republicans down with Trump.
Six years after Nixon resigned, the many dummies of this country put Raygun/Bush I in for a 12-year run. Another eight later and it was Bush's idiot kid. Eight again, and we're even farther down the food chain to tRump.
Based on my experiences, I very much agree with the proposals that you must stop trying to understand/ convert hardcore (R)s. Because guess what - at least the last time I spoke to some of my conservative relatives last summer, they even LIKED PUTIN.
I doubt a lot of extreme righties will ever be convinced Russian tampering in an US election was horrific. Because 1) It got them the results they wanted, and 2) Vlad's their kind of guy anyway. All they EVER WANT is a tough-talking Great White Daddy. (tRump-Putin 2020!)
(It's the same cognitive dissonance that makes them fear "Sharia laws," while supporting the decimation of the rights of women and others. They never get that They are the Xian version of Sharia law, just like they don't see that their need for an authoritarian leader is so very not-American.)
posted by NorthernLite at 10:34 AM on March 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
Yes, I don't understand why the D senators are talking about Gorsuch at all. Who cares? Hold hearings for Merrick Garland, or no hearings at all.
Garland is no longer a nominee. His nomination expired at the end of the last congress.
well that decision just got a lot easier
posted by OverlappingElvis at 10:36 AM on March 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
Garland is no longer a nominee. His nomination expired at the end of the last congress.
well that decision just got a lot easier
posted by OverlappingElvis at 10:36 AM on March 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
Comey asks for a brief break. Nobody uses this as an excuse to ask about the piss tape. I am disappointed.
posted by zachlipton at 10:37 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:37 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Speier (D)-CA - My congress person, and someone I am generally proud to have as my rep! Ms. Speier was an aid to Congressman Leo Ryan when his entourage came under fire at the People's Temple compound in Jonestown, Guyana. Ryan was murdered, and Speier was permanently injured, but recovered considerably and went on to run for office. She rose through various elected offices and eventually ran for congress, winning her old boss's seat. She's someone who has actually, literally been under fire for serving the US. Gov't. {/Speier derail}
posted by mosk at 10:37 AM on March 20, 2017 [68 favorites]
posted by mosk at 10:37 AM on March 20, 2017 [68 favorites]
Uh. Isn't this the prerequisite for treason
Yes, I think that was the point of her line of questioning.
I like her.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:38 AM on March 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
Yes, I think that was the point of her line of questioning.
I like her.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:38 AM on March 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
She's someone who has actually, literally been under fire for serving the US. Gov't.
Ok wow, "like" doesn't quite seem strong enough anymore.
It is so heartening to learn about MOC who are this amazing.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:43 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ok wow, "like" doesn't quite seem strong enough anymore.
It is so heartening to learn about MOC who are this amazing.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:43 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Line of questioning to Comey about whether it is a crime to lie to a reporter about purportedly classified info which is actually false. Comey says not a crime. Says he can't officially deny false stories in the newspaper, frustrating as it may be, or else people will take the absence of a denial to be a confirmation in other cases.
Another rep continued the same line of questioning (sorry I didn't get everyone's names or parties!) and then seemed to make a reference to a specific story that Comey and the intelligence committee both knew was false, without (I think) saying which story it was. But earlier there was a reference specifically to WaPo and NYT stories having false "classified" info.
Then the questioner started asking whether it would be possible for a Russian agent to screw with us by planting false "classified" info in the paper that way! And then they went to break.
Presumably the stuff that got Flynn fired was real, or else he wouldn't have been fired. I'm really curious what they were getting at, but obviously we're not going to be told...
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:45 AM on March 20, 2017
Another rep continued the same line of questioning (sorry I didn't get everyone's names or parties!) and then seemed to make a reference to a specific story that Comey and the intelligence committee both knew was false, without (I think) saying which story it was. But earlier there was a reference specifically to WaPo and NYT stories having false "classified" info.
Then the questioner started asking whether it would be possible for a Russian agent to screw with us by planting false "classified" info in the paper that way! And then they went to break.
Presumably the stuff that got Flynn fired was real, or else he wouldn't have been fired. I'm really curious what they were getting at, but obviously we're not going to be told...
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:45 AM on March 20, 2017
Gorsuch must be impeached at the first opportunity if Democrats ever regain control.
Well that will be a great big ball of fun. No way the Ds get a 2/3rd majority in the Senate, anyway. And if they did, they could just legislate away their issues with the Supremes. Hell, they could add 5 new judges so a Dem president could stack the courts. You get an impeachment-good majority you don't waste it on a dragout fight about a Justice who hasn't done anything wrong except disagree with you on jurisprudence.
posted by dis_integration at 10:45 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well that will be a great big ball of fun. No way the Ds get a 2/3rd majority in the Senate, anyway. And if they did, they could just legislate away their issues with the Supremes. Hell, they could add 5 new judges so a Dem president could stack the courts. You get an impeachment-good majority you don't waste it on a dragout fight about a Justice who hasn't done anything wrong except disagree with you on jurisprudence.
posted by dis_integration at 10:45 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
When, when, WHEN did it become A Thing to want the country run like a company? Good governance of a country and a company look nothing like one another. If Mississippi has the nation's worst schools, highest levels of poverty, and highest health care costs, what are you going to do, liquidate the state, sell off its assets, and write off the loss?
posted by Mayor West at 10:46 AM on March 20, 2017 [73 favorites]
posted by Mayor West at 10:46 AM on March 20, 2017 [73 favorites]
Keep in mind that the intelligence agencies all agreed that the Russians were hacking the election back in October, well before the election. All of them except Comey who said he was not yet convinced and talked them into not releasing that information to the public before the election.
posted by JackFlash at 10:46 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by JackFlash at 10:46 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Keeping in mind that the House can impeach for whatever it wants to,
I'm not sure what the basis would be for impeachment.
Being the beneficiary of a possibly corrupt appointment. Given Trump's obvious corruption, it's impossible to know with any certainty that Gorsuch isn't himself corrupt and didn't agree to make decisions that would personally benefit Trump or his foreign allies. It is vital that all Americans be able to trust that Supreme Court decisions are made truly independently, decided truly on the basis of valid constitutional law, and decided with the interests of the United States paramount rather than those of Trump's Russian and Chinese paymasters. The inevitable uncertainty about Gorsuch sadly gives us no alternative but to impeach and remove him.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:47 AM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm not sure what the basis would be for impeachment.
Being the beneficiary of a possibly corrupt appointment. Given Trump's obvious corruption, it's impossible to know with any certainty that Gorsuch isn't himself corrupt and didn't agree to make decisions that would personally benefit Trump or his foreign allies. It is vital that all Americans be able to trust that Supreme Court decisions are made truly independently, decided truly on the basis of valid constitutional law, and decided with the interests of the United States paramount rather than those of Trump's Russian and Chinese paymasters. The inevitable uncertainty about Gorsuch sadly gives us no alternative but to impeach and remove him.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:47 AM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
Sorry to break it to you, but in my many years of experience with the federal government, they have never paid for my business cards
Yep. Most of us in the federal government simply sucked it up. Heck, I remember pay Ny extra for the embossed foil seal. I made half Mulvaney's salary at the time, and I didn't consider it a big deal or a sacrifice.
posted by deanc at 10:47 AM on March 20, 2017
Yep. Most of us in the federal government simply sucked it up. Heck, I remember pay Ny extra for the embossed foil seal. I made half Mulvaney's salary at the time, and I didn't consider it a big deal or a sacrifice.
posted by deanc at 10:47 AM on March 20, 2017
When, when, WHEN did it become A Thing to want the country run like a company? Good governance of a country and a company look nothing like one another.
When the GOP realized that most people don't really know what either of them look like anyway.
posted by Etrigan at 10:49 AM on March 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
When the GOP realized that most people don't really know what either of them look like anyway.
posted by Etrigan at 10:49 AM on March 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
Spicey says Nukular...figures.
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:50 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:50 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
(I am actually not joking about that. We know Trump is one corrupt motherfucker, and we've seen many examples of decent and patriotic (but horribly wrong) Republicans refusing to work with him. Being someone that someone as corrupt asTrump would nominate is suspicious. Being someone who would agree to be nominated by Trump is doubly suspicious, and the mark of someone of low character.)
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:51 AM on March 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:51 AM on March 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
I guess the speakers in that line of questioning about whether it's against the law to lie to a reporter about classified info were Turner and Wenstrup. Here's the exchange, from the captions. I think the person asking the question is Dr. Brad Wenstrup (R) of Ohio's 2nd district, and Comey is answering them.
>> NEXT, TO THE ARTICLE FROM FEBRUARY 14th IN THE NEW YORK TIMES WHICH I BELIEVE WE'RE ALL FAMILIAR, AND YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO ANSWER ANY OF THESE, BUT THE ARTICLE CITES FOUR CURRENT AND FORMER AMERICAN OFFICIALS. DO YOU KNOW THE IDENTITY OF THOSE FOUR OFFICIALS?
>> NOT GOING TO COMMENT ON AN ARTICLE.
...
>> OKAY. WITH OR WITHOUT AN INVESTIGATION GOING ON, HAS ANYONE TOLD YOU THAT THEY KNOW WHO LEAKED THE INFORMATION? OR WHO LEAKED ANY INFORMATION ON RUSSIAN INVOLVEMENT IN THE U.S. ELECTIONS OR RUSSIAN INVOLVEMENT WITH THE TRUMP ELECTION TEAM?
>> NOT GOING TO COMMENT ON THAT.
>> IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THE NEW YORK TIMES MISREPRESENTED ITS SOURCING FOR THIS FEBRUARY 14th ARTICLE? POSSIBLE?
...
>> ONE MORE QUESTION BEFORE THE TIME IS UP, WE'LL COME BACK TO ME, BUT I'M CURIOUS, IS IT POSSIBLE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS ARTICLE, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT A SO-CALLED SOURCE TO A MEDIA OUTLET MAY ACTUALLY BE A RUSSIAN ADVOCATE. NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS STORY, PER SE, JUST IS IT POSSIBLE THAT A RUSSIAN SURROGATE COULD ACTUALLY BE THE SOURCE THAT A NEWSPAPER IS RELY ON?
>> IN GENERAL, SURE, SOMEBODY COULD ALWAYS BE PRETENDING
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:53 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
>> NEXT, TO THE ARTICLE FROM FEBRUARY 14th IN THE NEW YORK TIMES WHICH I BELIEVE WE'RE ALL FAMILIAR, AND YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO ANSWER ANY OF THESE, BUT THE ARTICLE CITES FOUR CURRENT AND FORMER AMERICAN OFFICIALS. DO YOU KNOW THE IDENTITY OF THOSE FOUR OFFICIALS?
>> NOT GOING TO COMMENT ON AN ARTICLE.
...
>> OKAY. WITH OR WITHOUT AN INVESTIGATION GOING ON, HAS ANYONE TOLD YOU THAT THEY KNOW WHO LEAKED THE INFORMATION? OR WHO LEAKED ANY INFORMATION ON RUSSIAN INVOLVEMENT IN THE U.S. ELECTIONS OR RUSSIAN INVOLVEMENT WITH THE TRUMP ELECTION TEAM?
>> NOT GOING TO COMMENT ON THAT.
>> IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THE NEW YORK TIMES MISREPRESENTED ITS SOURCING FOR THIS FEBRUARY 14th ARTICLE? POSSIBLE?
...
>> ONE MORE QUESTION BEFORE THE TIME IS UP, WE'LL COME BACK TO ME, BUT I'M CURIOUS, IS IT POSSIBLE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS ARTICLE, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT A SO-CALLED SOURCE TO A MEDIA OUTLET MAY ACTUALLY BE A RUSSIAN ADVOCATE. NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS STORY, PER SE, JUST IS IT POSSIBLE THAT A RUSSIAN SURROGATE COULD ACTUALLY BE THE SOURCE THAT A NEWSPAPER IS RELY ON?
>> IN GENERAL, SURE, SOMEBODY COULD ALWAYS BE PRETENDING
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:53 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
I just bought a bike and I want to go on a ride but I've got the hearings on TV and Spicey on my tablet. It's an embarrassment of riches here, people.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 10:54 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by fluttering hellfire at 10:54 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm not sure what the basis would be for impeachment.
Fruit of the poisonous tree. And the only requirement for impeachment is political will. The only question should be, "what would Republicans do if the situation was reversed?" Democrats lost everything by refusing to play the same game as Republicans. Power matters, nothing else.
Well that will be a great big ball of fun. No way the Ds get a 2/3rd majority in the Senate, anyway. And if they did, they could just legislate away their issues with the Supremes. Hell, they could add 5 new judges so a Dem president could stack the courts.
This would also work. The Illegitimate Gorsuch Court is a perfect rational for court packing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:55 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Fruit of the poisonous tree. And the only requirement for impeachment is political will. The only question should be, "what would Republicans do if the situation was reversed?" Democrats lost everything by refusing to play the same game as Republicans. Power matters, nothing else.
Well that will be a great big ball of fun. No way the Ds get a 2/3rd majority in the Senate, anyway. And if they did, they could just legislate away their issues with the Supremes. Hell, they could add 5 new judges so a Dem president could stack the courts.
This would also work. The Illegitimate Gorsuch Court is a perfect rational for court packing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:55 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
>> Gorsuch must be impeached at the first opportunity if Democrats ever regain control.
> Well that will be a great big ball of fun. No way the Ds get a 2/3rd majority in the Senate, anyway. And if they did, they could just legislate away their issues with the Supremes. Hell, they could add 5 new judges so a Dem president could stack the courts. You get an impeachment-good majority you don't waste it on a dragout fight about a Justice who hasn't done anything wrong except disagree with you on jurisprudence.
On the one hand, I agree; when Gorsuch gets on the court, it will become of critical importance to either remove him or to pack the court to neutralize his influence. But on the other hand, the Democratic Party as currently constituted is never going to have either the will or the power to do what needs to be done here.
It's a nightmare.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:59 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
> Well that will be a great big ball of fun. No way the Ds get a 2/3rd majority in the Senate, anyway. And if they did, they could just legislate away their issues with the Supremes. Hell, they could add 5 new judges so a Dem president could stack the courts. You get an impeachment-good majority you don't waste it on a dragout fight about a Justice who hasn't done anything wrong except disagree with you on jurisprudence.
On the one hand, I agree; when Gorsuch gets on the court, it will become of critical importance to either remove him or to pack the court to neutralize his influence. But on the other hand, the Democratic Party as currently constituted is never going to have either the will or the power to do what needs to be done here.
It's a nightmare.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:59 AM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Spicer's attempt to paint Manafort and Flynn as having limited roles early in the campaign is hilarious. One was the chairman of the campaign and the other became National Security Advisor.
posted by zachlipton at 10:59 AM on March 20, 2017 [64 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:59 AM on March 20, 2017 [64 favorites]
Like basically the scenarios where the Democrats pull it together enough to either remove Gorsuch or neutralize his influence seem about as plausible as the scenario where we get together to form democratically elected workers' councils, expropriate all productive capital in the name of the workers' councils, and then abolish the institutions of bourgeois electoral democracy thereby transferring all power to the workers. It's a revolutionary fantasy.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:01 AM on March 20, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:01 AM on March 20, 2017 [39 favorites]
I think the person asking the question is Dr. Brad Wenstrup (R) of Ohio
IS IT POSSIBLE THAT A SO-CALLED SOURCE TO A MEDIA OUTLET MAY ACTUALLY BE A RUSSIAN ADVOCATE. NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS STORY, PER SE, JUST IS IT POSSIBLE THAT A RUSSIAN SURROGATE COULD ACTUALLY BE THE SOURCE THAT A NEWSPAPER IS RELY ON?
Fantastic, that's my representative providing cover for Trump's fake-news accusations. Looks like I'm gonna have to go wave some torches and pitchforks at his office later.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:02 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
IS IT POSSIBLE THAT A SO-CALLED SOURCE TO A MEDIA OUTLET MAY ACTUALLY BE A RUSSIAN ADVOCATE. NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS STORY, PER SE, JUST IS IT POSSIBLE THAT A RUSSIAN SURROGATE COULD ACTUALLY BE THE SOURCE THAT A NEWSPAPER IS RELY ON?
Fantastic, that's my representative providing cover for Trump's fake-news accusations. Looks like I'm gonna have to go wave some torches and pitchforks at his office later.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:02 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm not sure if this was mentioned in the last thread, but Jason Kander (his uncle is John) re-tweeted something Richard Spencer wrote (".@joshtpm 1930s? No, tomorrow belongs to us.") on Saturday and said, "Hey buddy, that song you love was written by my uncle. He's been married to my other uncle for 40 years. And he's a Jew. Sing it proud."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:03 AM on March 20, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:03 AM on March 20, 2017 [45 favorites]
Oh boy, getting all kinds of financial stuff on the record now in the Russia hearings. Deutsche bank's loans to Trump and conviction to money laundering, Felix Sater, the "king of fertilizer" mansion sale, nefarious Russian tenants in buildings, trips to Russia, bankruptcy, etc... Oh, is that Eric Swalwell? Awesome. Comey refuses to comment on any of the issues he's raising (naturally), but he keeps reading stuff into the record anyway.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:06 AM on March 20, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:06 AM on March 20, 2017 [39 favorites]
I don't know Swalwell. Is he always this good?
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:06 AM on March 20, 2017
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:06 AM on March 20, 2017
Could someone link to or explain why reading these things into the record is important?
posted by zrail at 11:08 AM on March 20, 2017
posted by zrail at 11:08 AM on March 20, 2017
It puts them permanently into public record, for everyone to see.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:10 AM on March 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:10 AM on March 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
zachlipton: Spicer's attempt to paint Manafort and Flynn as having limited roles early in the campaign is hilarious. One was the chairman of the campaign and the other became National Security Advisor.
Also, a reminder: Manafort owns a condo in Trump Tower.
posted by bluecore at 11:11 AM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
Also, a reminder: Manafort owns a condo in Trump Tower.
posted by bluecore at 11:11 AM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
Reporters can quote the record...
Wenstrup bringing up the "February 14th article in the New York Times" again. I guess he wants to officially get it on the record that he thinks their sources were lying to them for that article. Because now he's said "February 14th" "New York Times" and "Four government sources" which is easily enough to identify it.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:11 AM on March 20, 2017
Wenstrup bringing up the "February 14th article in the New York Times" again. I guess he wants to officially get it on the record that he thinks their sources were lying to them for that article. Because now he's said "February 14th" "New York Times" and "Four government sources" which is easily enough to identify it.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:11 AM on March 20, 2017
Could someone link to or explain why reading these things into the record is important?
Well, I suppose it will give us a clearer indication whether this:
a path that leads to "political will" being the only justification anyone on the political spectrum asks for when their side takes power
has already happened on the Republican side.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:13 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well, I suppose it will give us a clearer indication whether this:
a path that leads to "political will" being the only justification anyone on the political spectrum asks for when their side takes power
has already happened on the Republican side.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:13 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Members of Congress have absolute immunity from prosecution (by anyone outside of their House itself) for any speech they make in Congress. So they can read any sort of secret documents into the Congressional Record, and then it's a public document.
They did this with the Pentagon Papers, when they were first released.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 11:13 AM on March 20, 2017 [21 favorites]
They did this with the Pentagon Papers, when they were first released.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 11:13 AM on March 20, 2017 [21 favorites]
Of course. I kind of hope we're not on a path that leads to "political will" being the only justification anyone on the political spectrum asks for when their side takes power and decides to retaliate against its predecessors, but I should probably abandon such hopes.
Um, like, are you seeing the shit going on right now?
posted by Artw at 11:13 AM on March 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
Um, like, are you seeing the shit going on right now?
posted by Artw at 11:13 AM on March 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
Spicer is trying to walk a very fine line between saying Roger Stone didn't do much in the campaign and infuriating Trump by dismissing a long-term and close friend. He didn't really succeeded at either I don't think.
posted by zachlipton at 11:14 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:14 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Restoring a "normal" political situation is something that will only be possible after (pick one):
- truth and reconciliation commissions
- war crimes tribunals
GA-06 news:
posted by Chrysostom at 11:18 AM on March 20, 2017 [49 favorites]
With just less than 30 days until the special election to replace former Rep. Tom Price (R-GA), a new Clout Research poll finds that Jon Ossoff (D) is greatly solidifying his base of support and now leads the special election field with 41%.Note that if Ossoff somehow cleared 50%, he would win the seat outright. If not, top two vote getters will go to a second round.
Karen Handel (R) now only has a marginal edge over Bob Gray (R), as both effectively tie at 16%.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:18 AM on March 20, 2017 [49 favorites]
Carl Bernstein: "I can state w/confidence that many intel members now decrying 'leaks' of classified info have themselves 'leaked' classified info knowingly"
posted by zachlipton at 11:18 AM on March 20, 2017 [47 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:18 AM on March 20, 2017 [47 favorites]
um, can someone watching Comey instead of Spicer explain the context around why he just testified that "I hate the New England Patriots" ?
Given Trump's friendship with Kraft, that might be the quote that leads to Comey losing his job.
posted by zachlipton at 11:22 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Given Trump's friendship with Kraft, that might be the quote that leads to Comey losing his job.
posted by zachlipton at 11:22 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
New York Attorney General Hires Bharara Corruption Prosecutor to Examine Trump Administration
posted by futz at 11:22 AM on March 20, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by futz at 11:22 AM on March 20, 2017 [45 favorites]
-neil-gorsuch-praised-a-leading-republican-activist-behind-voter-suppression-efforts
Look, if you don't like Gorsuch, I'm not going to tell you to like him. But this article is pure clickbait fear-mongering. His "praise", per the very article posted above, consists of:
- one three-word email response to a work email he was sent about the appointment from someone who was excited about it (Good for Hans!)
- a one-sentence that's basically "oh, this looks cool, I'll try to go" on an email with 50 people cc'd that's basically "I am attending a voting conference from X time to Y time"
posted by corb at 11:22 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Look, if you don't like Gorsuch, I'm not going to tell you to like him. But this article is pure clickbait fear-mongering. His "praise", per the very article posted above, consists of:
- one three-word email response to a work email he was sent about the appointment from someone who was excited about it (Good for Hans!)
- a one-sentence that's basically "oh, this looks cool, I'll try to go" on an email with 50 people cc'd that's basically "I am attending a voting conference from X time to Y time"
posted by corb at 11:22 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
New York Attorney General Hires Bharara Corruption Prosecutor to Examine Trump Administration
That's just beautiful.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:24 AM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
That's just beautiful.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:24 AM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
Bwa ha ha, Comey's being asked by Hines to confirm the truthfulness of Trump's Tweets from this morning.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
Spicey is doing amazing work here, trying to make Manafort into some irrelevant campaign staffer who did nothing important or anything except maybe be a loser campaign director during the crucial primary process who just helped Trump win the nomination that's all nothing important, no lasting impact.
posted by dis_integration at 11:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 11:25 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Spicer: '[Trump's golfing] is different than Obama's because he's used it to foster international relations with south-east Asia...It depends on how you use the game of golf.'
@fakedansavage The difference is black and white.
posted by chaoticgood at 11:26 AM on March 20, 2017 [33 favorites]
@fakedansavage The difference is black and white.
posted by chaoticgood at 11:26 AM on March 20, 2017 [33 favorites]
I don't see this linked yet, and it's wonderful, so:
American Fencer and Olympic Medalist Ibtihaj Muhammad: I Fear President Trump's 'Campaign of Terror' Against American Ideals
Well worth your time, but in case, here's her conclusion:
"Overcoming obstacles was my challenge as an athlete. It is now my challenge as a citizen. I once represented you. Now you represent me. I urge you to do so with the humility, thoughtfulness and kindness befitting your sacred office. As an African-American Muslim Woman patriot, my religion commands me to remain hopeful, to believe in our ability to fight bigotry with love and draw our strength from diversity. That is what makes America great. Time and again."
Can someone ask Spicer if the president will defend an American Olympic medalist being profiled and told to go back to her country?
posted by martin q blank at 11:27 AM on March 20, 2017 [52 favorites]
American Fencer and Olympic Medalist Ibtihaj Muhammad: I Fear President Trump's 'Campaign of Terror' Against American Ideals
Well worth your time, but in case, here's her conclusion:
"Overcoming obstacles was my challenge as an athlete. It is now my challenge as a citizen. I once represented you. Now you represent me. I urge you to do so with the humility, thoughtfulness and kindness befitting your sacred office. As an African-American Muslim Woman patriot, my religion commands me to remain hopeful, to believe in our ability to fight bigotry with love and draw our strength from diversity. That is what makes America great. Time and again."
Can someone ask Spicer if the president will defend an American Olympic medalist being profiled and told to go back to her country?
posted by martin q blank at 11:27 AM on March 20, 2017 [52 favorites]
Comey was just asked if the @POTUS tweet this morning saying "The NSA and FBI tell Congress that Russia did not influence electoral process" was accurate. He said no.
In other words, the FBI director just said the White House was lying about his testimony.
posted by zachlipton at 11:28 AM on March 20, 2017 [113 favorites]
In other words, the FBI director just said the White House was lying about his testimony.
posted by zachlipton at 11:28 AM on March 20, 2017 [113 favorites]
zachlipton: The "I hate the Patriots" comment was part of a sports analogy trying to explain that wanting to undermine Clinton would necessarily mean aiding the Trump campaign as "there are only two teams on the field".
posted by Freon at 11:28 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Freon at 11:28 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Jennifer Rubin, WaPo: Comey’s testimony humiliates Trump
Comey’s statement was not surprising, but it was nevertheless devastating. To hear the head of the FBI in essence call the president a liar or wide-eyed conspiratorialist is bracing, if not humiliating, for the chief executive. And reflecting on the morning tweet, Trump now seems desperate, childish and vulnerable. He’s been tripped up by his own grandiose lies. At some level he must know it.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:28 AM on March 20, 2017 [51 favorites]
can someone watching Comey instead of Spicer explain the context around why he just testified that "I hate the New England Patriots" ?
Some of the Republican representatives have been pushing the line that just because Russia disliked and wanted to undermine Clinton doesn't mean that they wanted to support Trump. Comey has persistently been saying on the contrary that the two things go hand in hand, and if you want Clinton to lose it also means you want Trump to win, because there are only two candidates. The original questioner--I can't remember his name--introduced the sports metaphor.
posted by Dr. Send at 11:29 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Some of the Republican representatives have been pushing the line that just because Russia disliked and wanted to undermine Clinton doesn't mean that they wanted to support Trump. Comey has persistently been saying on the contrary that the two things go hand in hand, and if you want Clinton to lose it also means you want Trump to win, because there are only two candidates. The original questioner--I can't remember his name--introduced the sports metaphor.
posted by Dr. Send at 11:29 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Jon Lovett: Well, that's the first time an FBI director commented on the president's tweets about the FBI director's comments on the president's tweets.
posted by Etrigan at 11:32 AM on March 20, 2017 [63 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 11:32 AM on March 20, 2017 [63 favorites]
Comey re-introduced the sports metaphor with a different team, though. :-) The point was basically "If you hate the Patriots, you are necessarily rooting for whoever plays against the Patriots." Putin hates Clinton and was therefore necessarily rooting for Trump.
Now Castro is going through The Dossier, reading bits of it into the record and asking which parts have been confirmed.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Now Castro is going through The Dossier, reading bits of it into the record and asking which parts have been confirmed.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:33 AM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh my gosh, I feel so much less like a nutso conspiracy theorist, hearing all of this stuff discussed by Very Serious People in Government on TV, instead of just reading about it on the internet.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:35 AM on March 20, 2017 [63 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:35 AM on March 20, 2017 [63 favorites]
Sadly, Spicer was not asked to comment on Comey's testimony that the president's twitter mischaracterized Comey's testimony about the president's twittter, which probably just prevented the universe from exploding due to infinite recursion.
posted by zachlipton at 11:35 AM on March 20, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:35 AM on March 20, 2017 [25 favorites]
Some of the Republican representatives have been pushing the line that just because Russia disliked and wanted to undermine Clinton doesn't mean that they wanted to support Trump. Comey has persistently been saying on the contrary that the two things go hand in hand, and if you want Clinton to lose it also means you want Trump to win, because there are only two candidates.
Well, duh. Also Trump is the one candidate in the whole thing who was known to be in the Russians' pocket.
Which leads me to ask whether anyone is suggesting that the Russians were meddling before the GOP convention to help Trump secure the nomination or knock down some of his many, many competitors.
posted by Naberius at 11:36 AM on March 20, 2017
Well, duh. Also Trump is the one candidate in the whole thing who was known to be in the Russians' pocket.
Which leads me to ask whether anyone is suggesting that the Russians were meddling before the GOP convention to help Trump secure the nomination or knock down some of his many, many competitors.
posted by Naberius at 11:36 AM on March 20, 2017
Comey: Russians made attacks aimed at "penetrating state voter registration systems".
posted by Freon at 11:37 AM on March 20, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by Freon at 11:37 AM on March 20, 2017 [31 favorites]
Look, if you don't like Gorsuch, I'm not going to tell you to like him. But this article is pure clickbait fear-mongering.
First of all, Ari Berman is one of the foremost reporters on the conservative efforts to suppress votes, so accusing him of writing "clickbait fear-mongering" is pretty laughable. Second, there's several paragraphs' worth of context for what you're characterizing as just a couple of throwaway sentences, starting with this bit that pre-emptively rebutted arguments like yours:
posted by zombieflanders at 11:38 AM on March 20, 2017 [49 favorites]
First of all, Ari Berman is one of the foremost reporters on the conservative efforts to suppress votes, so accusing him of writing "clickbait fear-mongering" is pretty laughable. Second, there's several paragraphs' worth of context for what you're characterizing as just a couple of throwaway sentences, starting with this bit that pre-emptively rebutted arguments like yours:
Though the e-mails sound mundane, they’re much more important when you consider what was happening at the Justice Department during the time Gorsuch overlapped with von Spakovksy. In 2005–06 Gorsuch was principal deputy to the associate attorney general and von Spakosvky was special counsel to Brad Schlozman, the assistant attorney general for civil rights, who said he wanted to “gerrymander all of those crazy libs right out of the [voting] section.” It was a time when longtime civil-rights lawyers were pushed out of the Justice Department and the likes of Schlozman and von Spakovsky reversed the Civil Rights Division’s traditional role of safeguarding voting rights. When von Spakovsky was nominated to the FEC, six former lawyers in the voting section called him “the point person for undermining the Civil Rights Division’s mandate to protect voting rights.”Third, as Berman points out at least twice in the article, the mutual praise between van Spakovsky is Gorsuch is something that is 100% worth digging up, whether from reporters or Senators and their staff. Dimissing investigating voter suppression from anyone--let alone a man who will be joining a Court that already led by the GOP's voter suppression point man--is exactly the kind of proto-fascist bullshit that conservatives were so gung-ho about until Trump made the implicit explicit.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:38 AM on March 20, 2017 [49 favorites]
Finding out that the Russians did meddle to knock out cruz or Rubio might be what gives rank and file repubs cover to legit go after trump without fear of recrimination from base?
posted by ian1977 at 11:38 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 11:38 AM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
Comey: "If I'm honest with myself, the reason I don't like the Patriots is that the represent sustained excellence. And as a Giants fan that drives me crazy."
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:39 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:39 AM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
the mutual praise between van Spakovsky is Gorsuch
What exactly are you counting in those emails as praise of van Spakovsky?
posted by corb at 11:40 AM on March 20, 2017
What exactly are you counting in those emails as praise of van Spakovsky?
posted by corb at 11:40 AM on March 20, 2017
Wait, is the Patriots thing still a metaphor?
posted by amarynth at 11:41 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by amarynth at 11:41 AM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
i mean, if literal actual treason doesn't do it, maybe? But I wouldn't count on it. These people have no more loyalty to each other than they do to normal folks.
posted by Artw at 11:42 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:42 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
OK starting to worry just a bit about about what the Dampnut reaction to utter and complete public humiliation might be.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 11:43 AM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 11:43 AM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
- one three-word email response to a work email he was sent about the appointment from someone who was excited about it (Good for Hans!)
"Good for Hitler!" No big deal. Just three words from some who was excited about him. What's the big deal?
Spakovsky was absolutely toxic. He was involved in racist voter suppression efforts. He was involved in the U.S. Attorneys scandal in which attorneys who didn't investigate enough Democrats enthusiastically were fired.
Six former lawyers in the voting section called him “the point person for undermining the Civil Rights Division’s mandate to protect voting rights.” And Gorsuch is excited about his nomination to the Federal Elections Commission.
That Gorsuch is willing to publicly praise such toxic voter suppression advocate is very germane to whether Gorsuch is qualified for the Supreme Court. Perhaps you didn't notice but the Supreme Court recently ruled to undermine the Voting Rights Act so whether or not Gorsuch is also a voter suppression advocate is important.
posted by JackFlash at 11:43 AM on March 20, 2017 [30 favorites]
"Good for Hitler!" No big deal. Just three words from some who was excited about him. What's the big deal?
Spakovsky was absolutely toxic. He was involved in racist voter suppression efforts. He was involved in the U.S. Attorneys scandal in which attorneys who didn't investigate enough Democrats enthusiastically were fired.
Six former lawyers in the voting section called him “the point person for undermining the Civil Rights Division’s mandate to protect voting rights.” And Gorsuch is excited about his nomination to the Federal Elections Commission.
That Gorsuch is willing to publicly praise such toxic voter suppression advocate is very germane to whether Gorsuch is qualified for the Supreme Court. Perhaps you didn't notice but the Supreme Court recently ruled to undermine the Voting Rights Act so whether or not Gorsuch is also a voter suppression advocate is important.
posted by JackFlash at 11:43 AM on March 20, 2017 [30 favorites]
Wait, is the Patriots thing still a metaphor?
No, the metaphor was just an excuse for some silliness. Something about the thanking the FBI for helping Tom Brady find his jersey even though Comey hates the Patriots? I have no idea what they were talking about. Then Comey felt the need to explain that the Patriots are actually a very good team. Crawford now says "Admiral Rogers, would you like to make a comment about the New England Patriots?" Rogers: "I'm a Chicago Bears guy."
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:44 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
No, the metaphor was just an excuse for some silliness. Something about the thanking the FBI for helping Tom Brady find his jersey even though Comey hates the Patriots? I have no idea what they were talking about. Then Comey felt the need to explain that the Patriots are actually a very good team. Crawford now says "Admiral Rogers, would you like to make a comment about the New England Patriots?" Rogers: "I'm a Chicago Bears guy."
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:44 AM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
zachlipton: Carl Bernstein: "I can state w/confidence that many intel members now decrying 'leaks' of classified info have themselves 'leaked' classified info knowingly"
This kind of reminds me of billboards I've seen around here: "even people who text and drive hate people who text and drive" - we'll decry it, but we also do it when it serves our purposes.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:46 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
This kind of reminds me of billboards I've seen around here: "even people who text and drive hate people who text and drive" - we'll decry it, but we also do it when it serves our purposes.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:46 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
The World Famous I guess I dont' get it, are you advocating that hte Democrats let the Republicans get away with their theft of hte Supreme Court on the grounds that doing so is a necessary prerequisite for peace in our time? If so I must disagree in the strongest possible way.
We must **PUNISH** them for this. We cannot let it stand. The very instant we have a majority in the House we must immediately begin pushing to impeach Gorsuch. Hell, Gerald Ford spent his entire House career trying to impeach Justice William O. Douglas for no reason other htan that he disliked him. When asked Ford snapped that "an impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history"
I think being appointed to a stolen seat by a Russian agent seems like a very reasonable standard for impeachment of a Supreme Court justice.
You Can't Tip a Buick Restoring a "normal" political situation is something that will only be possible after (pick one):
Exactly.
I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to return to a state of normal politics if that means letting the Republicans get away with their criminal, treasonous, and otherwise outrageous behavior. If that's their price for normalcy I do not want to pay.
"Hi, I know we kicked the shit out of you, bankrupted you, burned down your house, and killed your dog, but we'd like things to be normal again so don't take any revenge on us, k?"
No, fuck that shit.
They hurt us, for no reason other than that they could, and there are no referees here. Either we hurt them back, or they will learn a very important lesson: they can hurt us and it will cost them nothing.
In an environment where there is no outside rule enforcement agency the only possible way to restrain a bad actor is via tit for tat retaliation. We absolutely cannot, must not, allow them to get away with stealing two elections and the Supreme Court. To do so will not restore normalcy, it'll just encourage them to do even worse to us the next time they have power.
We must punish them. We must stop them. We must retaliate.
And that means impeaching Gorsuch and every other Trump appointee to the Supreme Court. They cannot be permitted to enjoy the spoils of a tainted victory.
corbLook, if you don't like Gorsuch, I'm not going to tell you to like him. But this article is pure clickbait fear-mongering. His "praise", per the very article posted above, consists of:
Sorry, but I'm utterly and completely disinterested in hearing your excuses for why we should be nice to the guy you want to see on the Supreme Court. Yes, you like him. To you I'm sure his nomination is a silver lining to Trump, like the other Republicans you're getting what you want here (theocracy, guns everywhere, and voting rights curtailed guaranteeing an eternal Republican majority) so you're happy(ish) and looking for silver linings.
I'm not, and I won't back down one nanometer from any and all arguments against Gorsuch, including outright lies.
posted by sotonohito at 11:46 AM on March 20, 2017 [76 favorites]
We must **PUNISH** them for this. We cannot let it stand. The very instant we have a majority in the House we must immediately begin pushing to impeach Gorsuch. Hell, Gerald Ford spent his entire House career trying to impeach Justice William O. Douglas for no reason other htan that he disliked him. When asked Ford snapped that "an impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history"
I think being appointed to a stolen seat by a Russian agent seems like a very reasonable standard for impeachment of a Supreme Court justice.
You Can't Tip a Buick Restoring a "normal" political situation is something that will only be possible after (pick one):
Exactly.
I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to return to a state of normal politics if that means letting the Republicans get away with their criminal, treasonous, and otherwise outrageous behavior. If that's their price for normalcy I do not want to pay.
"Hi, I know we kicked the shit out of you, bankrupted you, burned down your house, and killed your dog, but we'd like things to be normal again so don't take any revenge on us, k?"
No, fuck that shit.
They hurt us, for no reason other than that they could, and there are no referees here. Either we hurt them back, or they will learn a very important lesson: they can hurt us and it will cost them nothing.
In an environment where there is no outside rule enforcement agency the only possible way to restrain a bad actor is via tit for tat retaliation. We absolutely cannot, must not, allow them to get away with stealing two elections and the Supreme Court. To do so will not restore normalcy, it'll just encourage them to do even worse to us the next time they have power.
We must punish them. We must stop them. We must retaliate.
And that means impeaching Gorsuch and every other Trump appointee to the Supreme Court. They cannot be permitted to enjoy the spoils of a tainted victory.
corbLook, if you don't like Gorsuch, I'm not going to tell you to like him. But this article is pure clickbait fear-mongering. His "praise", per the very article posted above, consists of:
Sorry, but I'm utterly and completely disinterested in hearing your excuses for why we should be nice to the guy you want to see on the Supreme Court. Yes, you like him. To you I'm sure his nomination is a silver lining to Trump, like the other Republicans you're getting what you want here (theocracy, guns everywhere, and voting rights curtailed guaranteeing an eternal Republican majority) so you're happy(ish) and looking for silver linings.
I'm not, and I won't back down one nanometer from any and all arguments against Gorsuch, including outright lies.
posted by sotonohito at 11:46 AM on March 20, 2017 [76 favorites]
OK starting to worry just a bit about about what the Dampnut reaction to utter and complete public humiliation might be.
Starting a war is a pretty good way to temper arguments that you should be tossed and your administration should be largely overhauled. It's a big part of what got GWB re-elected.
That was, at least, the first thing I thought of when Tillerson started talking about the failure of diplomacy after a few weeks on the job.
posted by middleclasstool at 11:52 AM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
Starting a war is a pretty good way to temper arguments that you should be tossed and your administration should be largely overhauled. It's a big part of what got GWB re-elected.
That was, at least, the first thing I thought of when Tillerson started talking about the failure of diplomacy after a few weeks on the job.
posted by middleclasstool at 11:52 AM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm pretty sure that Sleepyhead is just hugely incompetent and lazy, but who knows anymore?
posted by Artw at 11:53 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:53 AM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Carl Bernstein: "I can state w/confidence that many intel members now decrying 'leaks' of classified info have themselves 'leaked' classified info knowingly"
You leak; I give the public vital information that the government is holding hostage.
posted by Etrigan at 11:55 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
You leak; I give the public vital information that the government is holding hostage.
posted by Etrigan at 11:55 AM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
John Schindler, NatSec columnist for the Observer: In light of #ComeyHearing, I remind TeamTrump that the first couple folks who talk generally get the best deal, maybe even tennis prison.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:56 AM on March 20, 2017 [97 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:56 AM on March 20, 2017 [97 favorites]
Nowhere near even 1% of the population is killed in modern wars. Even the Vietnam War, bad as it was, resulted in vastly fewer deaths for the US than prior wars had (less than .1% of the US population died in the Vietnam war)
The population of Vietnam in 1955 was 28,147,785. Using Rudolph Rummel's low estimate is that 1,156,000 Vietnamese people were killed between 1954 and 1975. That's 4.1% of the population.
Rummel's middle estimate is 2,115,000 (7.5% of the 1955 population) and his high estimate is 3,207,000 (11.4%). "Estimates of casualties of the Vietnam War vary widely."
posted by kirkaracha at 11:58 AM on March 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
CNN Aviation editor Jon Ostrower:
* There is something very strange happening right now for some international airlines that serve the U.S. More questions than answers.
* What DHS is saying right now: "We have no comment on potential security precautions, but will provide any update as appropriate.”
* BREAKING: 12+ Middle East and African airlines flying to U.S. covered new security procedures. -U.S. Official. Few additional details.
Apparently it's a complete electronics ban (phones and medical devices excepted) for at least 96 hours.
posted by rewil at 12:00 PM on March 20, 2017 [29 favorites]
* There is something very strange happening right now for some international airlines that serve the U.S. More questions than answers.
* What DHS is saying right now: "We have no comment on potential security precautions, but will provide any update as appropriate.”
* BREAKING: 12+ Middle East and African airlines flying to U.S. covered new security procedures. -U.S. Official. Few additional details.
Apparently it's a complete electronics ban (phones and medical devices excepted) for at least 96 hours.
posted by rewil at 12:00 PM on March 20, 2017 [29 favorites]
Everything I've red puts Gorsuch to the right of Scalia. I don't need to know anything else, honestly to be terrified. I could find he has dolls made out of human skin and I'd be like well of course
posted by angrycat at 12:00 PM on March 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 12:00 PM on March 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
Okay, real talk, no one should support anyone who stands up on their hind legs on a stage with Trump to accept a nomination from Trump, unless there is a clear sense that that person is doing this loathsome thing in order to secretly undermine the Trump administration.
We can have valid disagreements about what set of tactics for opposing Gorsuch might be most effective. But given that Gorsuch has accepted a nomination from Trump and given that Gorsuch is by no means a resistance agent, it is not acceptable to express support for him. "Trump named him; get him out" may or may not be the most effective propaganda line for neutralizing Gorsuch, but here, among friends, we must agree that "Trump named him; get him out" is enough reason for us to oppose him.
As Gorsuch himself stated in his Hobby Lobby concurrence:
This disqualifies him from the bench.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:02 PM on March 20, 2017 [79 favorites]
We can have valid disagreements about what set of tactics for opposing Gorsuch might be most effective. But given that Gorsuch has accepted a nomination from Trump and given that Gorsuch is by no means a resistance agent, it is not acceptable to express support for him. "Trump named him; get him out" may or may not be the most effective propaganda line for neutralizing Gorsuch, but here, among friends, we must agree that "Trump named him; get him out" is enough reason for us to oppose him.
As Gorsuch himself stated in his Hobby Lobby concurrence:
All of us face the problem of complicity. All of us must answer for ourselves whether and to what degree we are willing to be involved in the wrongdoing of others.Gorsuch, by lining up with Trump, has faced the problem of complicity and chosen what degree he is willing to be involved in the wrongdoing of others. He has chosen very poorly.
This disqualifies him from the bench.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:02 PM on March 20, 2017 [79 favorites]
Politico: Trump lets his aides sweat the details on health care
Several people with knowledge of the discussions said having Trump on the golf course wasn’t a bad thing for his team, who could wade more into the nitty-gritty and have “real talk” with the conservatives. They fear that when he meets with legislators or interest groups that he’ll promise them too much – or change the terms under discussion altogether. “It’s easier to negotiate sometimes without Trump,” one adviser said.posted by zachlipton at 12:09 PM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
On Monday, Trump’s team continued heated discussions with lawmakers, but the president was fixated on investigations into Russia’s meddling in the 2016 election and the related congressional hearings.
Advisers say he is very much interested in the law passing – and believes that if it doesn’t, that would be considered “a failure that hurts his presidency,” as one White House official put it. But they acknowledge that he’s less compelled by the substance of the law – the fine details of who wins or who loses. “He’s very interested in having it happen,” said Newt Gingrich, a top ally. “He’s not vested in every single piece of it.”
...
Members of Speaker Paul Ryan’s team, trying to appeal to Trump’s ego and deal-making sensibilities, have begun calling him the “closer” or the "ultimate closer.”
kirkaracha re: Vietnamese deaths. You are 100% correct, and I alluded to that in my footnote, though I should have put it in a more prominent place. The restraint on war and minimal casualties model only applies to the major powers. Those minor powers they chose to abuse still see war with pre-WWII level deaths.
See also Iraq during Junior's War there. The USA had 4,424 soldiers die. There are good estimates that over 1,000,000 Iraqis died, which would be around 5% of the national population.
posted by sotonohito at 12:12 PM on March 20, 2017
See also Iraq during Junior's War there. The USA had 4,424 soldiers die. There are good estimates that over 1,000,000 Iraqis died, which would be around 5% of the national population.
posted by sotonohito at 12:12 PM on March 20, 2017
My idea for the day: a remake of The Lion in Winter set in the Trump White House.
Oh god, yes, with Ivanka as Alais, of course: "In my time I've known contessas, milkmaids, courtesans and novices, whores, gypsies, jades, and little boys, but nowhere in God's western world have I found anyone to love but you."
This will amuse me for the rest of the day. Thank you.
posted by jokeefe at 12:14 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Oh god, yes, with Ivanka as Alais, of course: "In my time I've known contessas, milkmaids, courtesans and novices, whores, gypsies, jades, and little boys, but nowhere in God's western world have I found anyone to love but you."
This will amuse me for the rest of the day. Thank you.
posted by jokeefe at 12:14 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
If Clinton had won, this entire conversation would be about whether the Court can function just fine with eight seats permanently. It's not hard to imagine who'd be making that argument here.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:14 PM on March 20, 2017 [46 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:14 PM on March 20, 2017 [46 favorites]
Rep. Hurd seems to be one of the few Republicans to care about the hacking instead of ranting about leaks. He's quoting Schiff about the importance of this investigation and keeping it non-partisan and saying they have to do this.
posted by zachlipton at 12:14 PM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:14 PM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
Okay, real talk, no one should support anyone who stands up on their hind legs on a stage with Trump to accept a position from Trump, unless there is a clear sense that that person is doing this loathsome thing in order to secretly undermine the Trump administration.
Couple things worth noting on this point:
* Veterans and active-duty servicepeople all over the country, including liberals, were thrilled about Mattis. He's a smart guy, people hoped he'd be the adult in the room, he talked 45 down off the torture cliff (apparently, for now)... and we have pictures of him standing by with a smile as 45 signed his first bullshit Muslim Ban into law. I dunno about any other vets/active duty types, but my faith in Mattis died right then and there.
* McMaster is clearly qualified for the job, doesn't seem inclined to be a stooge for the fascists... and so he's also clearly not being allowed to run his own show the way he should.
* DeVos, horrible and unqualified as she is, had a moment where she actually tried to do the right thing. I'm a teacher, so don't anyone think I'm trying to defend her when she's a walking insult to my profession, but she did push back on revoking protections against transgender students. Naturally, she was shut down. She buckled. So again, examples of anyone pushing back against the bullshit in this regime don't go very far.
* The nominees for SecNav and SecArmy were both extremely wealthy, successful businessmen who pulled out because they couldn't fully divest and avoid conflicts of interest. This, despite the fact that Republicans in the Senate clearly do not give a shit about such things. So say what you will about their business practices or character (I don't know much of anything), but these two dudes pulled out because they were too ethical to serve in this administration.
* Probably already cited above, but: the White House has posted loyalty monitors for cabinet appointees.
Nothing we have seen speaks well for people who accept posts in this administration, regardless of their motives. Ethics and intentions are sidelined.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:16 PM on March 20, 2017 [25 favorites]
Couple things worth noting on this point:
* Veterans and active-duty servicepeople all over the country, including liberals, were thrilled about Mattis. He's a smart guy, people hoped he'd be the adult in the room, he talked 45 down off the torture cliff (apparently, for now)... and we have pictures of him standing by with a smile as 45 signed his first bullshit Muslim Ban into law. I dunno about any other vets/active duty types, but my faith in Mattis died right then and there.
* McMaster is clearly qualified for the job, doesn't seem inclined to be a stooge for the fascists... and so he's also clearly not being allowed to run his own show the way he should.
* DeVos, horrible and unqualified as she is, had a moment where she actually tried to do the right thing. I'm a teacher, so don't anyone think I'm trying to defend her when she's a walking insult to my profession, but she did push back on revoking protections against transgender students. Naturally, she was shut down. She buckled. So again, examples of anyone pushing back against the bullshit in this regime don't go very far.
* The nominees for SecNav and SecArmy were both extremely wealthy, successful businessmen who pulled out because they couldn't fully divest and avoid conflicts of interest. This, despite the fact that Republicans in the Senate clearly do not give a shit about such things. So say what you will about their business practices or character (I don't know much of anything), but these two dudes pulled out because they were too ethical to serve in this administration.
* Probably already cited above, but: the White House has posted loyalty monitors for cabinet appointees.
Nothing we have seen speaks well for people who accept posts in this administration, regardless of their motives. Ethics and intentions are sidelined.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:16 PM on March 20, 2017 [25 favorites]
Things I will be thankful if I don't have to do again as long as I live after today: listen to Trey Gowdy talk.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:16 PM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:16 PM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
Sadly, Spicer was not asked to comment on Comey's testimony that the president's twitter mischaracterized Comey's testimony about the president's twittter, which probably just prevented the universe from exploding due to infinite recursion.
Or from going back to junior high, which is maybe the same thing.
posted by nickmark at 12:17 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Or from going back to junior high, which is maybe the same thing.
posted by nickmark at 12:17 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
the "ultimate closer.”
This doesn't make me think of the Nuclear Apocalypse at all.
posted by dis_integration at 12:18 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
This doesn't make me think of the Nuclear Apocalypse at all.
posted by dis_integration at 12:18 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
The World Famous What, in your mind, is going to stop the Republicans from repeating their insane obstructionism, norm violation, and cheating if we don't punish them?
There are no referees here. There is no rule enforcement agency.
If there is no price to be paid for cheating, for kicking the shit out of us, why wouldn't they continue to kick the shit out of us and cheat?
This is game theory 101 here. In any contest where one side cheats and pays no penalty for doing so, that side will not only win but will continue to cheat. We, the Democrats, are the only people who can exact a price for cheating from the Republicans.
Seriously, if we try to go all high road, do you really think the result will be anything but the Republicans cheating again?
What, please, is your path forward that ends their rampant cheating?
posted by sotonohito at 12:21 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
There are no referees here. There is no rule enforcement agency.
If there is no price to be paid for cheating, for kicking the shit out of us, why wouldn't they continue to kick the shit out of us and cheat?
This is game theory 101 here. In any contest where one side cheats and pays no penalty for doing so, that side will not only win but will continue to cheat. We, the Democrats, are the only people who can exact a price for cheating from the Republicans.
Seriously, if we try to go all high road, do you really think the result will be anything but the Republicans cheating again?
What, please, is your path forward that ends their rampant cheating?
posted by sotonohito at 12:21 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Mod note: Several comments removed, via my phone on the goddam toilet. Everybody please do better at flagging instead of engaging/escalating; corb, do better at not going down some prescriptive hole about what other people should or shouldn't be anxious about based on your own personal priorities; sotonohito, take it down a couple notches, we've had to talk about this previously.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:21 PM on March 20, 2017 [67 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:21 PM on March 20, 2017 [67 favorites]
> No. I'm suggesting that, when the Democrats eventually take back the majority, dedicating their energy to political retaliation rather than actually governing would take our country farther down the path we're on today, rather than accomplishing what I think their ostensible political philosophy would dictate. We've just come off of 8 years of a President who - against massive opposition in Congress - worked toward a meaningful and hopeful agenda for our country. Now we've got a President and administration whose guiding principle is essentially revenge and spite. I preferred the former, and would like to see it again.
In the pipe dream scenario where a resurgent left takes over the Democratic Party and the Democratic Party in turn takes over the United States government's executive and legislative branches, that hypothetical pipe dream Democratic Party must work to neutralize everyone who has collaborated with the Trump administration. It appears to be a fait accompli that the elected quislings in the Democratic Party are going to let Gorsuch through; as such fixing the damage will require either packing the court or impeaching Gorsuch.
These things are necessary, but not good. As such they should be undertaken in a clearheaded, coldhearted manner, driven by steely resolve rather than by any fiery desire for retaliatory vengeance.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:21 PM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
In the pipe dream scenario where a resurgent left takes over the Democratic Party and the Democratic Party in turn takes over the United States government's executive and legislative branches, that hypothetical pipe dream Democratic Party must work to neutralize everyone who has collaborated with the Trump administration. It appears to be a fait accompli that the elected quislings in the Democratic Party are going to let Gorsuch through; as such fixing the damage will require either packing the court or impeaching Gorsuch.
These things are necessary, but not good. As such they should be undertaken in a clearheaded, coldhearted manner, driven by steely resolve rather than by any fiery desire for retaliatory vengeance.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:21 PM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Gowdy (Republican, for those who haven't memorized these things) now saying "Russia does suck. You guys should investigate the heck out of this and then get back to us because there's a lot of speculation in the absence of real evidence." (And going on about how anonymous sources aren't evidence, can't be used in court, can't be cross examined... I have to acknowledge that it's true that we have only circumstantial evidence of collusion so far, but we have so much of it!)
And later "And just because someone asked questions about leaks doesn't mean they're not interested in Russia."
I almost interpret this as covering his ass. He seems almost to be saying "If you do come back with hard evidence, I will get on board."
Nunes now saying "You can't tell me if you have evidence, but I can tell you that we don't have any evidence." "There is a big gray cloud that you have now put over people who have very important work to do, who have to lead this country. So the faster you can get to the bottom of this, the better."
FIN
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:21 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
And later "And just because someone asked questions about leaks doesn't mean they're not interested in Russia."
I almost interpret this as covering his ass. He seems almost to be saying "If you do come back with hard evidence, I will get on board."
Nunes now saying "You can't tell me if you have evidence, but I can tell you that we don't have any evidence." "There is a big gray cloud that you have now put over people who have very important work to do, who have to lead this country. So the faster you can get to the bottom of this, the better."
FIN
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:21 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Closing gavel on the House Intel hearing. When the highlight reels start coming out, give 'em a look if you weren't able to follow along today. Several popcorn moments and nice showings from some Ds.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:24 PM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:24 PM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Rep. Hurd seems to be one of the few Republicans to care about the hacking instead of ranting about leaks. He's quoting Schiff about the importance of this investigation and keeping it non-partisan and saying they have to do this.
He's the guy who just did the road trip with Beto O'Rourke, so may be the coolest and least fucked-up Republican in Congress, for the moment.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:24 PM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
He's the guy who just did the road trip with Beto O'Rourke, so may be the coolest and least fucked-up Republican in Congress, for the moment.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:24 PM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Nunes complaining that FBI/NSA have just put "a big gray cloud" over the WH. [real]
posted by zakur at 12:24 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zakur at 12:24 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
>... a big gray cloud ... So the faster you can get to the bottom of this, the better.
So, even the Republicans agree that the Trump admin is not likely to last the full year. If we must discuss Supreme Court nominations, I expect them to abide by the Lott rule.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:25 PM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
So, even the Republicans agree that the Trump admin is not likely to last the full year. If we must discuss Supreme Court nominations, I expect them to abide by the Lott rule.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:25 PM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Nunes complaining that FBI/NSA have just put "a big gray cloud" over the WH. [real]
Aww, poor Trump has his own personal raincloud now.
posted by dis_integration at 12:26 PM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Aww, poor Trump has his own personal raincloud now.
posted by dis_integration at 12:26 PM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
White evangelicals have been the willing dupes of hucksters both political and non- for decades.
I've mentioned it in other threads, but I had their number in 1980, when the evangelicals abandoned a genuine born-again christian, Jimmy Carter, in droves to vote for Ronald Reagan.
posted by Gelatin at 12:26 PM on March 20, 2017 [78 favorites]
I've mentioned it in other threads, but I had their number in 1980, when the evangelicals abandoned a genuine born-again christian, Jimmy Carter, in droves to vote for Ronald Reagan.
posted by Gelatin at 12:26 PM on March 20, 2017 [78 favorites]
Veterans and active-duty servicepeople all over the country, including liberals, were thrilled about Mattis
I wasn't. Still not. Position calls for a Talleyrand, not a Ney.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:27 PM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
I wasn't. Still not. Position calls for a Talleyrand, not a Ney.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:27 PM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
> I wasn't. Still not. Position calls for a Talleyrand, not a Ney.
I suppose putting the military in the hands of a Talleyrand would be fine, given the absence of any plausible Trotsky.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:31 PM on March 20, 2017
I suppose putting the military in the hands of a Talleyrand would be fine, given the absence of any plausible Trotsky.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:31 PM on March 20, 2017
Impeaching a Supreme Court justice for no basis other than objection to the President who nominated him and the actions of Republicans toward a previous nominee is, by definition, not clearheaded.
You have an odd definition of the word "definition", not to mention "clearheaded".
posted by Etrigan at 12:32 PM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
You have an odd definition of the word "definition", not to mention "clearheaded".
posted by Etrigan at 12:32 PM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
Impeaching a Supreme Court justice for no basis other than objection to the President who nominated him and the actions of Republicans toward a previous nominee is, by definition, not clearheaded.
Blocking the nomination of a Supreme Court Justice for no basis other than objection to the President who nominated him and the actions of Democrats toward a previous nominee is, by definition, not clearheaded.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:35 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Blocking the nomination of a Supreme Court Justice for no basis other than objection to the President who nominated him and the actions of Democrats toward a previous nominee is, by definition, not clearheaded.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:35 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
> Impeaching a Supreme Court justice for no basis other than objection to the President who nominated him and the actions of Republicans toward a previous nominee is, by definition, not clearheaded.
There is no reason why a program of thoroughgoing denazification can't be carried out in a calm, clearheaded, orderly manner.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:35 PM on March 20, 2017 [25 favorites]
There is no reason why a program of thoroughgoing denazification can't be carried out in a calm, clearheaded, orderly manner.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:35 PM on March 20, 2017 [25 favorites]
I too am disappointed with the anticipated actions of the hypothetical future democratic majority and would like to fight with a mefite about it
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:36 PM on March 20, 2017 [118 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:36 PM on March 20, 2017 [118 favorites]
[stannis] Supermajority. [/stannis]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:37 PM on March 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:37 PM on March 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
The Prime Minister of Iraq pulled a funny in front of Trump, saying they had nothing to do with the wiretapping.
posted by zachlipton at 12:38 PM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:38 PM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
Brian Beutler: The Media’s Failure to Correct Republicans’ Obscene Trumpcare Lies
Well, the media failed for years to correct Republicans' Obamacare lies, so...
posted by Gelatin at 12:39 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Well, the media failed for years to correct Republicans' Obamacare lies, so...
posted by Gelatin at 12:39 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Nunes complaining that FBI/NSA have just put "a big gray cloud" over the WH. [real]
Aww, poor Trump has his own personal raincloud now.
I'm thinking smog is a more suitable metaphor.
And yes can we stop arguing about what color our unicorns will be the day after the Democrats win it all and work on the "win" part first, thank you.
posted by emjaybee at 12:39 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Aww, poor Trump has his own personal raincloud now.
I'm thinking smog is a more suitable metaphor.
And yes can we stop arguing about what color our unicorns will be the day after the Democrats win it all and work on the "win" part first, thank you.
posted by emjaybee at 12:39 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
But I am allowed to be opposed to the Supreme Court nominee because he's a sexist fuckknuckle, right?
posted by Gyre,Gimble,Wabe, Esq. at 12:40 PM on March 20, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by Gyre,Gimble,Wabe, Esq. at 12:40 PM on March 20, 2017 [25 favorites]
@MattGertz
Spicer got asked about the int'l incident he caused by reciting Fox transcript and shut down the briefing
Besides TeamTrump, is there anyone who thinks Spicer is good at his job? Anyone?
posted by zakur at 12:43 PM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Spicer got asked about the int'l incident he caused by reciting Fox transcript and shut down the briefing
Besides TeamTrump, is there anyone who thinks Spicer is good at his job? Anyone?
posted by zakur at 12:43 PM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Well if we're talking unicorn land when Democrats have a majority and do shit with it I'd say the first priority should be knifing the electoral college and ending Republican presidencies forever. >
posted by Artw at 12:44 PM on March 20, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by Artw at 12:44 PM on March 20, 2017 [36 favorites]
Besides TeamTrump, is there anyone who thinks Spicer is good at his job? Anyone?
Pretty sure they don't either, but they don't care about what the press thinks because Real Americans know that what Trump says on Twitter is the real truth.
posted by Etrigan at 12:44 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Pretty sure they don't either, but they don't care about what the press thinks because Real Americans know that what Trump says on Twitter is the real truth.
posted by Etrigan at 12:44 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
The Washington Post brings us the magic of Trump wants to defund PBS. ‘Sesame Street’ brutally parodied him for decades. (essentially a retread of the New York Post's article, which came first, but the summaries are better and it has links to all the clips, including the outtakes of Joe Pesci abusing muppets as "Ronald Grump" (one of which contains a homophobic slur)).
posted by zachlipton at 12:50 PM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:50 PM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
What's in it for Spicer, I wonder. The pay can't be that fabulous. Is he hoping to move on to a career at Fox after this?
posted by The corpse in the library at 12:56 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 12:56 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Note that if Ossoff somehow cleared 50%, he would win the seat outright. If not, top two vote getters will go to a second round.
At which point all those Rs who are currently fighting bitterly would probably line up behind the R candidate and Ossoff loses with 46% or thereabouts.
(Sorry for the cynicism...I've just seen this show many times before. I'm crossing my fingers for Ossoff - and I'm really hoping for a win here - but I'm not holding my breath.)
Nunes complaining that FBI/NSA have just put "a big gray cloud" over the WH. [real]
When the bullshit you've spewed out is piling so high it is giving off toxic fumes, it's not the FBI's fault. That's like blaming the dog.
White evangelicals have been the willing dupes of hucksters both political and non- for decades.
I've mentioned it in other threads, but I had their number in 1980, when the evangelicals abandoned a genuine born-again christian, Jimmy Carter, in droves to vote for Ronald Reagan.
QF-f'ing-T.
posted by darkstar at 12:56 PM on March 20, 2017 [21 favorites]
At which point all those Rs who are currently fighting bitterly would probably line up behind the R candidate and Ossoff loses with 46% or thereabouts.
(Sorry for the cynicism...I've just seen this show many times before. I'm crossing my fingers for Ossoff - and I'm really hoping for a win here - but I'm not holding my breath.)
Nunes complaining that FBI/NSA have just put "a big gray cloud" over the WH. [real]
When the bullshit you've spewed out is piling so high it is giving off toxic fumes, it's not the FBI's fault. That's like blaming the dog.
White evangelicals have been the willing dupes of hucksters both political and non- for decades.
I've mentioned it in other threads, but I had their number in 1980, when the evangelicals abandoned a genuine born-again christian, Jimmy Carter, in droves to vote for Ronald Reagan.
QF-f'ing-T.
posted by darkstar at 12:56 PM on March 20, 2017 [21 favorites]
Nunes is now claiming to have never heard of Carter Page or Roger Stone. That's, um, really not a good look for the head of the House Intelligence Committee.
posted by zachlipton at 12:59 PM on March 20, 2017 [73 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:59 PM on March 20, 2017 [73 favorites]
Things I will be thankful if I don't have to do again as long as I live after today: listen to Trey Gowdy talk.
I kept thinking of Spike Jonze in Three Kings.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:00 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
I kept thinking of Spike Jonze in Three Kings.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:00 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
And yes can we stop arguing about what color our unicorns will be the day after the Democrats win it all and work on the "win" part first, thank you.
Sure, but while we're doing that we need them to act like an actual opposition party. That means filibustering an illegitimate nominee. Not normalizing, not rationalizing why they're going to support him. Filibustering. No excuses are acceptable, especially not, "he's from my state". Let's start there and hopefully one day we can get to impeachment. We need to signal our craven Dems loudly and clearly that nothing less than total opposition will allow them to remain in office.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:00 PM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
Sure, but while we're doing that we need them to act like an actual opposition party. That means filibustering an illegitimate nominee. Not normalizing, not rationalizing why they're going to support him. Filibustering. No excuses are acceptable, especially not, "he's from my state". Let's start there and hopefully one day we can get to impeachment. We need to signal our craven Dems loudly and clearly that nothing less than total opposition will allow them to remain in office.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:00 PM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
Nunes now saying "You can't tell me if you have evidence, but I can tell you that we don't have any evidence." "There is a big gray cloud that you have now put over people who have very important work to do, who have to lead this country. So the faster you can get to the bottom of this, the better."
I'm reminded of another big gray cloud...
I'm reminded of another big gray cloud...
posted by mikelieman at 1:03 PM on March 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
I have never been a quitter. To leave office before my term is completed is abhorrent to every instinct in my body. But as President, I must put the interest of America first. America needs a full-time President and a full-time Congress, particularly at this time with problems we face at home and abroad.
To continue to fight through the months ahead for my personal vindication would almost totally absorb the time and attention of both the President and the Congress in a period when our entire focus should be on the great issues of peace abroad and prosperity without inflation at home.
Therefore, I shall resign the Presidency effective at noon tomorrow.
Gosh, that's the third motorcyclist that's passed us tonight. They sure do take their lives into their own hands, what with the weather and all.
posted by Reverend John at 1:04 PM on March 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Reverend John at 1:04 PM on March 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
and when that big gray cloud passes by, something bright and golden yellow will shine through. that's right friends I'm talking about the pee tape
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:06 PM on March 20, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:06 PM on March 20, 2017 [29 favorites]
The only way Trump will resign is if he can find a way to characterize it as a win. And you can bet he will be sending out furious tweets all over Twitter about how the Republican Party betrayed him.
posted by Anonymous at 1:06 PM on March 20, 2017
posted by Anonymous at 1:06 PM on March 20, 2017
Gosh, that's the third motorcyclist that's passed us tonight. They sure do take their lives into their own hands, what with the weather and all.
Well, there is a light...
posted by mikelieman at 1:06 PM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Well, there is a light...
posted by mikelieman at 1:06 PM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
What's in it for Spicer, I wonder
He can get a book deal good enough to retire on, if nothing else
posted by mikepop at 1:09 PM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
He can get a book deal good enough to retire on, if nothing else
posted by mikepop at 1:09 PM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, although the language of the dispute is in terms of what a hypothetical unicorn Democratic Party would do, the grounds of the dispute are really about whether we should understand the Trumpists as actual literal nazis, or if we should treat them as a regular political organization. The question isn't "what should the Democrats do?" The question is "is collaboration ever admissible?"
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:10 PM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:10 PM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Interrupting your House hearing, Gorsuch hearing and Spicer lies with some minor good news. I teach post-secondary and every year take 50ish college students from Montreal to the USA for a cultural trip. The students love visiting Boston or NYC, we've been doing it for close to 20 years.
Not this year. We've cancelled our reservations for Boston and are booking Toronto instead. I'm so relieved. I was dreading a border hold up with one of our students. Here's hoping Trump is gone sooner than later and we can get back down before too long.
posted by Cuke at 1:11 PM on March 20, 2017 [29 favorites]
Not this year. We've cancelled our reservations for Boston and are booking Toronto instead. I'm so relieved. I was dreading a border hold up with one of our students. Here's hoping Trump is gone sooner than later and we can get back down before too long.
posted by Cuke at 1:11 PM on March 20, 2017 [29 favorites]
> Ari Berman: In E-mails, Neil Gorsuch Praised a Leading Republican Activist Behind Voter Suppression Efforts
Berman on Democracy Now: Ari Berman Reveals Neil Gorsuch Praised a Leading GOP Activist Behind Voter Suppression Efforts
More from today's DN:
WaPo: Neil Gorsuch sides with big business, big donors and big bossesHis record shows he probably won't help rein in corporate power.
DN: Zephyr Teachout: Supreme Court Pick Neil Gorsuch "Sides with Big Business, Big Donors & Big Bosses"
AP: At liberal Columbia U, Gorsuch raised a conservative voice
DN: College Classmate: Neil Gorsuch Attacked Anti-Apartheid & Civil Rights Protesters & Defended Contras
posted by homunculus at 1:11 PM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
Berman on Democracy Now: Ari Berman Reveals Neil Gorsuch Praised a Leading GOP Activist Behind Voter Suppression Efforts
More from today's DN:
WaPo: Neil Gorsuch sides with big business, big donors and big bossesHis record shows he probably won't help rein in corporate power.
DN: Zephyr Teachout: Supreme Court Pick Neil Gorsuch "Sides with Big Business, Big Donors & Big Bosses"
AP: At liberal Columbia U, Gorsuch raised a conservative voice
DN: College Classmate: Neil Gorsuch Attacked Anti-Apartheid & Civil Rights Protesters & Defended Contras
posted by homunculus at 1:11 PM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
I had their number in 1980, when the evangelicals abandoned a genuine born-again christian, Jimmy Carter, in droves to vote for Ronald Reagan.
You're giving me flashbacks. From 1980 to around 1985 (when she cynically gave up), my Mum would routinely yell at the television, me, and whoever else would listen: "HE was a sunday school teacher. But THEY picked the ACTOR!!" Where "they" = our pastor, Falwell, and the Southern Baptist leadership. She was so bitter over the religious right betrayal of Carter in favor of the flim flam man, who she just KNEW (all caps, all the time) was nothing of substance.
posted by honestcoyote at 1:13 PM on March 20, 2017 [54 favorites]
You're giving me flashbacks. From 1980 to around 1985 (when she cynically gave up), my Mum would routinely yell at the television, me, and whoever else would listen: "HE was a sunday school teacher. But THEY picked the ACTOR!!" Where "they" = our pastor, Falwell, and the Southern Baptist leadership. She was so bitter over the religious right betrayal of Carter in favor of the flim flam man, who she just KNEW (all caps, all the time) was nothing of substance.
posted by honestcoyote at 1:13 PM on March 20, 2017 [54 favorites]
zachlipton: Advisers say he is very much interested in the law passing – and believes that if it doesn’t, that would be considered “a failure that hurts his presidency,” as one White House official put it. But they acknowledge that he’s less compelled by the substance of the law – the fine details of who wins or who loses. “He’s very interested in having it happen,” said Newt Gingrich, a top ally. “He’s not vested in every single piece of it.”
...
Members of Speaker Paul Ryan’s team, trying to appeal to Trump’s ego and deal-making sensibilities, have begun calling him the “closer” or the "ultimate closer.”
The ultimate conman.
D: "Yes, I passed this thing!"
- "What thing?"
D: "The health care thing! Bigly! End of Obamacare!"
- "What does it do?"
D: "Good people get good access to health care!"
- "Can you provide any more details?"
D: "Are you tired of winning yet? BBL, nap time."
The art of conning. Supporters will cheer him regardless of the (lack of) facts. I really, really hope AHCA crashes and burns, but even if it's reworked into something substantially different, he'll still claim a victory if he can sign it into law.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:17 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
...
Members of Speaker Paul Ryan’s team, trying to appeal to Trump’s ego and deal-making sensibilities, have begun calling him the “closer” or the "ultimate closer.”
The ultimate conman.
D: "Yes, I passed this thing!"
- "What thing?"
D: "The health care thing! Bigly! End of Obamacare!"
- "What does it do?"
D: "Good people get good access to health care!"
- "Can you provide any more details?"
D: "Are you tired of winning yet? BBL, nap time."
The art of conning. Supporters will cheer him regardless of the (lack of) facts. I really, really hope AHCA crashes and burns, but even if it's reworked into something substantially different, he'll still claim a victory if he can sign it into law.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:17 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Nunes is now claiming to have never heard of Carter Page or Roger Stone.
I guess that highlights the importance of the Dems reading all that stuff into the record, even if the panel couldn't answer to it, because Nunes and his ilk don't have plausible deniability about this stuff anymore.
posted by Dr. Send at 1:20 PM on March 20, 2017 [26 favorites]
I guess that highlights the importance of the Dems reading all that stuff into the record, even if the panel couldn't answer to it, because Nunes and his ilk don't have plausible deniability about this stuff anymore.
posted by Dr. Send at 1:20 PM on March 20, 2017 [26 favorites]
If he wants to call single-payer 'trumpcare' and signs it into law, I'd be good with that.
posted by Dashy at 1:21 PM on March 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 1:21 PM on March 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
rewil: Apparently it's a complete electronics ban (phones and medical devices excepted) for at least 96 hours.
Royal Jordanian warns about electronics prohibition on U.S. flights (USA Today [!!], March 20, 2017)
Royal Jordanian warns about electronics prohibition on U.S. flights (USA Today [!!], March 20, 2017)
Questions are being raised about whether passengers on some U.S. flights might be facing new restrictions barring laptops and other electronics from being brought onboard in carry-on luggage.posted by filthy light thief at 1:21 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
The uncertainty comes after Royal Jordanian Airlines somewhat cryptically warned passengers Monday that electronic devices such as laptops, cameras and DVD players would be “strictly prohibited” in the cabin on its flights to the United States and must be checked.
The prohibition is scheduled to begin Tuesday and involves Royal Jordanian flights to New York, Chicago and Detroit, according to an airline tweet. Royal Jordanian’s flights to Montreal, which currently continues on to Detroit, would also be affected. The restriction doesn’t apply to cell phones or medical devices "needed during flight."
In its tweet, Royal Jordanian referenced “instructions from the concerned U.S. departments" but did not offer further details.
Also not immediately clear were how many airlines or airports a possible electronics restriction might affect. Of a dozen foreign airlines contacted Monday afternoon, Royal Jordanian was the only one to publicly detail such a prohibition on electronics.
In the absence of specific details, the restriction appears to be an enhancement of requirements in July 2014 that required travelers to turn on electronics before boarding overseas headed to the U.S.
...
The 2014 tightening of security -- since relaxed -- came after the department warned about terrorists developing new strategies for hiding explosives on flights. If electronic devices couldn’t be turned on, they weren’t allowed in the cabin.
I think the one piece of information that I heard in the Russia hearing that I hadn't already heard via MeFi (thanks everybody!) was the stuff on Michael Caputo.. Maybe this has been talked about here before and I just missed it...
"Michael Caputo, who lives in East Aurora, New York, was a part of the Trump campaign, before resigning over a controversial tweet about the firing of then Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski.posted by OnceUponATime at 1:21 PM on March 20, 2017 [29 favorites]
...
In 1994, he moved to Russia, and there was working for the Agency for International Development. He was fired from that job because he refused to follow a State Department position, then opened a PR firm in Moscow and married a Russian woman.
...
in 2000, he worked with Gazprom Media to improve Putin's image in the United States.
...
So, I guess my question is, what possible reason is there for the Trump campaign to hire Putin's image consultant? Any thoughts on that, director?"
Comey responded, "No thoughts."
The question is "is collaboration ever admissible?"
When I think of that question, and it is an important question, I always think, specifically, of the Resistance in WWII. When we think of them, we think largely of guerilla fighting, not remembering that a large portion of the resistance came from ordinary people - laundresses, prostitutes, bricklayers, secretaries- who worked, in some way or another, voluntarily or not, with Nazis, but who were not loyal in their heart and who passed on information, smuggled children, and helped with opportunities.
I don't think we can assume, if this is indeed a comparable fight, and I think that it will be, that everyone who takes a position in this administration will be a collaborator selling their soul for advancement. Now whether this affects how we think of them now, or merely how we treat them in trials later, is a different discussion. But I think it's important to consider that at least some people may be resisting - in their own ways, for their own reasons.
posted by corb at 1:25 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
When I think of that question, and it is an important question, I always think, specifically, of the Resistance in WWII. When we think of them, we think largely of guerilla fighting, not remembering that a large portion of the resistance came from ordinary people - laundresses, prostitutes, bricklayers, secretaries- who worked, in some way or another, voluntarily or not, with Nazis, but who were not loyal in their heart and who passed on information, smuggled children, and helped with opportunities.
I don't think we can assume, if this is indeed a comparable fight, and I think that it will be, that everyone who takes a position in this administration will be a collaborator selling their soul for advancement. Now whether this affects how we think of them now, or merely how we treat them in trials later, is a different discussion. But I think it's important to consider that at least some people may be resisting - in their own ways, for their own reasons.
posted by corb at 1:25 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
zachlipton: Spicer's attempt to paint Manafort and Flynn as having limited roles early in the campaign is hilarious. One was the chairman of the campaign and the other became National Security Advisor.
#VeryLimitedRole is now trending on Twitter. Funny stuff.
posted by zakur at 1:25 PM on March 20, 2017 [25 favorites]
#VeryLimitedRole is now trending on Twitter. Funny stuff.
posted by zakur at 1:25 PM on March 20, 2017 [25 favorites]
Trump needs criminal charges for treason, among others, at the end of this long, bizarre story. A few months in office, look at all the damage this personality-disordered freak has done. He also needs his assets seized for money laundering, the proceeds of which should be used to repay taxpayers. His entire family should be investigated and charged also. They all need to be ruined financially.
He should die in prison, penniless. There needs to be a strong message sent to all. Charges of treason and all assets seized. Nothing less.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 1:26 PM on March 20, 2017 [90 favorites]
He should die in prison, penniless. There needs to be a strong message sent to all. Charges of treason and all assets seized. Nothing less.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 1:26 PM on March 20, 2017 [90 favorites]
Trump drops 220 spots on the Forbes Billionaires List
The magazine put his net worth at $3.5 billion, down $1 billion from the rankings it issued a year ago.
As a result, his position on the Forbes' ranking dropped 220 spots, leaving him tied with 19 others as the 544th richest person in the world.
Forbes said that much of the decline in Trump's net worth is due to softness in the midtown Manhattan real estate market.
posted by futz at 1:28 PM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
The magazine put his net worth at $3.5 billion, down $1 billion from the rankings it issued a year ago.
As a result, his position on the Forbes' ranking dropped 220 spots, leaving him tied with 19 others as the 544th richest person in the world.
Forbes said that much of the decline in Trump's net worth is due to softness in the midtown Manhattan real estate market.
posted by futz at 1:28 PM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
I don't think we can assume, if this is indeed a comparable fight, and I think that it will be, that everyone who takes a position in this administration will be a collaborator selling their soul for advancement.
I feel pretty confident that Neil Gorsuch hasn't spent his entire life crafting a reputation as one of the most right-wing judicial minds of his generation so he can upend Trumpism.
posted by Etrigan at 1:28 PM on March 20, 2017 [26 favorites]
I feel pretty confident that Neil Gorsuch hasn't spent his entire life crafting a reputation as one of the most right-wing judicial minds of his generation so he can upend Trumpism.
posted by Etrigan at 1:28 PM on March 20, 2017 [26 favorites]
There needs to be a strong message sent to all.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah
Eponysterical
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:28 PM on March 20, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah
Eponysterical
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:28 PM on March 20, 2017 [45 favorites]
This isn't cinder block and rebar we're talking about.
They should talk to Disney. Fantasyland cost way less.
posted by Twang at 1:28 PM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
They should talk to Disney. Fantasyland cost way less.
posted by Twang at 1:28 PM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Dashy: If he wants to call single-payer 'trumpcare' and signs it into law, I'd be good with that.
Another episode of flt shouts at the radio:
Insurance Industry Worried By GOP Plan To Replace Obamacare, Consultant Says (NPR, March 20, 2017)
So let's get to single payer, if we're not going to turn health care into a government service.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:30 PM on March 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
Another episode of flt shouts at the radio:
Insurance Industry Worried By GOP Plan To Replace Obamacare, Consultant Says (NPR, March 20, 2017)
First of all, the viability of the insurance market itself depends upon getting lots of people to enroll, getting enough healthy people to enroll to pay for the sick people. You know, you can make the argument that Obamacare was a massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to lower-income people because Obamacare has worked really well for low-income people and not so well for higher-income people, who've seen large increases in their premiums and generally don't get a subsidy.First, is it really a "massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to lower-income people" if they're still lower-income? And second, who cares about "the viability of the insurance market"? I CARE ABOUT WHAT HEALTH CARE PEOPLE ACTUALLY RECEIVE!
The Republican plan basically reverses that. The Republican plan now provides much better subsidies for working and middle-class people, so we'll probably see more of those sign up. But the people who are going to pay are the low-income people. They're not going to be able to afford the kinds of health plans that are going to be offered. The other thing that the Republican plan does that's not good for the viability of the insurance pool is - you know, there's been much criticism of the individual mandate under Obamacare to get people to sign up. And it hasn't really worked very well. It hasn't really encouraged people to sign up. They don't have enough...
So let's get to single payer, if we're not going to turn health care into a government service.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:30 PM on March 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
Disney Borderland: "It's a wall world after all."
posted by spitbull at 1:31 PM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 1:31 PM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
Besides TeamTrump, is there anyone who thinks Spicer is good at his job? Anyone?
The more they fuck up, the more they tie themselves up in knots trying to justify the fuckups and dealing with the fallout. Spicer is good at fucking up, so I hope he sticks around.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:34 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
The more they fuck up, the more they tie themselves up in knots trying to justify the fuckups and dealing with the fallout. Spicer is good at fucking up, so I hope he sticks around.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:34 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Compare:
Trump today: US “never should have left” Iraq in 2011
Trump 2007-2011: "I'd get out of Iraq right now"
posted by zachlipton at 1:36 PM on March 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
Trump today: US “never should have left” Iraq in 2011
Trump 2007-2011: "I'd get out of Iraq right now"
posted by zachlipton at 1:36 PM on March 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
The question is "is collaboration ever admissible?"
When I think of that question, and it is an important question, I always think, specifically, of the Resistance in WWII. When we think of them, we think largely of guerilla fighting, not remembering that a large portion of the resistance came from ordinary people - laundresses, prostitutes, bricklayers, secretaries- who worked, in some way or another, voluntarily or not, with Nazis, but who were not loyal in their heart and who passed on information, smuggled children, and helped with opportunities.
I don't think we can assume, if this is indeed a comparable fight, and I think that it will be, that everyone who takes a position in this administration will be a collaborator selling their soul for advancement. Now whether this affects how we think of them now, or merely how we treat them in trials later, is a different discussion. But I think it's important to consider that at least some people may be resisting - in their own ways, for their own reasons.
I think this is nonsense. No one is forcing anyone to take positions in this administration (I'm not referring to career civil servants, I'm referring to "everyone who takes a position in this administration"). It is not illegal and dangerous to say you don't want to be a Republican in the way it was dangerous and illegal to say you didn't want to be a Nazi. I don't think there are boatloads of people seeking appointments because they want to resist from the inside and think they can make a real difference that way. I mean, I suppose it's possible that there are some but seriously I don't think the possibility that there are a vanishingly small number of people taking these jobs for the "right" reasons means that it's wrong of me to judge people who choose to be complicit with this administration.
This is basically #NotAllTrumpAppointees and I think the villains here are the people who are choosing (not being forced) to work with an openly racist sexist Presidential administration and not the people who are judging them for doing so.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 1:36 PM on March 20, 2017 [59 favorites]
When I think of that question, and it is an important question, I always think, specifically, of the Resistance in WWII. When we think of them, we think largely of guerilla fighting, not remembering that a large portion of the resistance came from ordinary people - laundresses, prostitutes, bricklayers, secretaries- who worked, in some way or another, voluntarily or not, with Nazis, but who were not loyal in their heart and who passed on information, smuggled children, and helped with opportunities.
I don't think we can assume, if this is indeed a comparable fight, and I think that it will be, that everyone who takes a position in this administration will be a collaborator selling their soul for advancement. Now whether this affects how we think of them now, or merely how we treat them in trials later, is a different discussion. But I think it's important to consider that at least some people may be resisting - in their own ways, for their own reasons.
I think this is nonsense. No one is forcing anyone to take positions in this administration (I'm not referring to career civil servants, I'm referring to "everyone who takes a position in this administration"). It is not illegal and dangerous to say you don't want to be a Republican in the way it was dangerous and illegal to say you didn't want to be a Nazi. I don't think there are boatloads of people seeking appointments because they want to resist from the inside and think they can make a real difference that way. I mean, I suppose it's possible that there are some but seriously I don't think the possibility that there are a vanishingly small number of people taking these jobs for the "right" reasons means that it's wrong of me to judge people who choose to be complicit with this administration.
This is basically #NotAllTrumpAppointees and I think the villains here are the people who are choosing (not being forced) to work with an openly racist sexist Presidential administration and not the people who are judging them for doing so.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 1:36 PM on March 20, 2017 [59 favorites]
I feel pretty confident that Neil Gorsuch hasn't spent his entire life crafting a reputation as one of the most right-wing judicial minds of his generation so he can upend Trumpism.
Gorsuch will be as bad if not worse than Scalia on a number of issues, especially seeing as how Scalia's only upside was being semi-decent on 4A issues. Of course, for those that already think Scalia was just a jovial fellow and a True Constuhtooshinal Scholar that never meant any harm, then that's a feature and not a bug.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:39 PM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
Gorsuch will be as bad if not worse than Scalia on a number of issues, especially seeing as how Scalia's only upside was being semi-decent on 4A issues. Of course, for those that already think Scalia was just a jovial fellow and a True Constuhtooshinal Scholar that never meant any harm, then that's a feature and not a bug.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:39 PM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yeah, I think the undercover resistance thing is a plausible argument in the scenario where not being undercover literally gets you sent to jail or a camp or whatever. We're not there yet.
I can, to be honest, imagine being a very high level whatsit and wondering whether I could do more to help save my country from inside the house, as it were, but this early on...
I don't know. I really don't know.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:43 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
I can, to be honest, imagine being a very high level whatsit and wondering whether I could do more to help save my country from inside the house, as it were, but this early on...
I don't know. I really don't know.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:43 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Onion: Aides Wrestle Drill From Trump’s Hands As He Tries To Remove Obama Listening Device From Skull
posted by PenDevil at 1:52 PM on March 20, 2017 [50 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 1:52 PM on March 20, 2017 [50 favorites]
Just to touch back on 'personal responsibility' for a second, yesterday I nearly burst a blood vessel overhearing someone I'm close to opine that what's wrong with this country is that people won't take personal responsibility. Like lazy people who wait for The Government to come and fix their washed out road after a storm. People should get out there with their Bobcats and shovels and fix it themselves. (In fairness, this is something she actually did. She got the neighbors together to fix a wash out of the unpaved road we're on because it's the only way to get to the state highway.)
She went on to say that if people don't do every possible thing they technically have the physical ability to do for themselves, then that's an abuse of power and they're lazy moochers just like Food Stamps recipients. Then she went into a tirade about The Deficit and I bit my tongue clean off.
I've heard earthy-crunchy people make the same kinds of noises about The Government. Although instead of misunderstanding the meaning of "entitlements" they usually are grousing about water rights out west or not being allowed to go off-grid or unpasteurized milk or whatnot.
What I wish I could get across to both kinds of people is that there is no such thing as The Government. The city, county, state, and federal governments are all separate things. As often as not they can't even all get in the same hymnal, let alone on the same page. This idea that The Government is an all-encompassing entity that has imposed itself unbidden upon innocent people is a neo-Confederate myth that needs to die.
posted by ob1quixote at 2:08 PM on March 20, 2017 [35 favorites]
She went on to say that if people don't do every possible thing they technically have the physical ability to do for themselves, then that's an abuse of power and they're lazy moochers just like Food Stamps recipients. Then she went into a tirade about The Deficit and I bit my tongue clean off.
I've heard earthy-crunchy people make the same kinds of noises about The Government. Although instead of misunderstanding the meaning of "entitlements" they usually are grousing about water rights out west or not being allowed to go off-grid or unpasteurized milk or whatnot.
What I wish I could get across to both kinds of people is that there is no such thing as The Government. The city, county, state, and federal governments are all separate things. As often as not they can't even all get in the same hymnal, let alone on the same page. This idea that The Government is an all-encompassing entity that has imposed itself unbidden upon innocent people is a neo-Confederate myth that needs to die.
posted by ob1quixote at 2:08 PM on March 20, 2017 [35 favorites]
So, I listened to the entire Intelligence Committee hearing, and I was absolutely gobsmacked by the contortions the republicans were willing to attempt.
Also, #45 was proven, multiple times to be a lying liar who lies. Instead of standing up for the Republic they are supposed to serve, they were doing high dives into the bullshit.
The 45Cultists are not going to do anything to stop 45. I really hoped that there were republicans who loved the country more than they loved being toadies to a shitgibbon and his poxy handler. It seems I was wrong.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 2:12 PM on March 20, 2017 [34 favorites]
Also, #45 was proven, multiple times to be a lying liar who lies. Instead of standing up for the Republic they are supposed to serve, they were doing high dives into the bullshit.
The 45Cultists are not going to do anything to stop 45. I really hoped that there were republicans who loved the country more than they loved being toadies to a shitgibbon and his poxy handler. It seems I was wrong.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 2:12 PM on March 20, 2017 [34 favorites]
darkstar: "At which point all those Rs who are currently fighting bitterly would probably line up behind the R candidate and Ossoff loses with 46% or thereabouts."
Well, that wouldn't be surprising - Price won the district after all. But it's been trending towards D for a while, and special elections are so turnout driven.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:12 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, that wouldn't be surprising - Price won the district after all. But it's been trending towards D for a while, and special elections are so turnout driven.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:12 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Angela Merkel: "What did I tell you about hiring Nazis?" (SLTwitter)
posted by Hairy Lobster at 2:19 PM on March 20, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by Hairy Lobster at 2:19 PM on March 20, 2017 [43 favorites]
Disney Borderland: "It's a wall world after all."
Surely that would be "It's Pandora After All..."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:34 PM on March 20, 2017
Surely that would be "It's Pandora After All..."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:34 PM on March 20, 2017
National Treasure Alexandra Petri WaPo: Trump Madness: What’s the quintessential quote of the Trump administration?
If your NCAA tournament bracket has collapsed, it is good to be able to take a break and contemplate something else that is more of a shambles. So we in The Post’s Opinions section have gone out and found you some of the finest quotes in all the land: an alternative bracket with the most big-league quotes there are. It is time we asked the question: What is the quintessential quote of the Trump administration? What phrase captures its peculiar, ineffable essence? Is it “alternative facts”? Is it a tweet issued in the wee hours of the morning that prompts a congressional investigation? Is it something Sean Spicer said? Or something else?posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:38 PM on March 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
We have all your favorites, from the16 yearsapparently two months that have elapsed since this president took office. Click your picks with your withered crone hand, vote and see what makes it through the tournament unscathed! And tell your friends about it, if your friends’ lives have also reached this point. It is good, in whatever small way, to feel that you are exerting a measure of control over your life.
The Onion: Aides Wrestle Drill From Trump’s Hands As He Tries To Remove Obama Listening Device From Skull
Glad to see they've discovered that they need to turn the volume to 11 to distinguish Onion from Truth.
posted by spitbull at 2:40 PM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
Glad to see they've discovered that they need to turn the volume to 11 to distinguish Onion from Truth.
posted by spitbull at 2:40 PM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
Glad to see they've discovered that they need to turn the volume to 11 to distinguish Onion from Truth.
Wait, that wasn't NYT?
posted by mikelieman at 2:41 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
Wait, that wasn't NYT?
posted by mikelieman at 2:41 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
She got the neighbors together to fix a wash out of the unpaved road we're on because it's the only way to get to the state highway.
Hope those neighbors are excited about being sued into oblivion when someone wipes out and dies on that road.
posted by spitbull at 2:41 PM on March 20, 2017 [22 favorites]
Hope those neighbors are excited about being sued into oblivion when someone wipes out and dies on that road.
posted by spitbull at 2:41 PM on March 20, 2017 [22 favorites]
in Bootstraptopia you can't sue people for frivolous stuff like causing death or serious injury anyway so it's all good
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:44 PM on March 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:44 PM on March 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
Well if we're talking unicorn land when Democrats have a majority and do shit with it I'd say the first priority should be knifing the electoral college and ending Republican presidencies forever.
I'm not usually a big fan of talking up state secession, but I really think all the blue states that kick more money into the federal economy than they take out need to band together and threaten secession as a club to make the electoral college go away, and universal voting rights be a constitutional amendment. Otherwise we'll be back in the same hole over and over.
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:45 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm not usually a big fan of talking up state secession, but I really think all the blue states that kick more money into the federal economy than they take out need to band together and threaten secession as a club to make the electoral college go away, and universal voting rights be a constitutional amendment. Otherwise we'll be back in the same hole over and over.
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:45 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Apropos of nothing, I've decided to start calling White House 'Press' conferences firepants chats.
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:45 PM on March 20, 2017 [78 favorites]
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:45 PM on March 20, 2017 [78 favorites]
Ivanka Trump brand sued by San Francisco fashion retailer over unfair competition
The lawsuit claims Ivanka Trump Marks, LLC, has gained an unfair advantage in the marketplace "from Donald J. Trump being the President of the United States and from Ivanka Trump and her husband, Jared, working for the President of the United States."
Aides Wrestle Drill From Trump’s Hands As He Tries To Remove Obama Listening Device From Skull
Wow.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:47 PM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
The lawsuit claims Ivanka Trump Marks, LLC, has gained an unfair advantage in the marketplace "from Donald J. Trump being the President of the United States and from Ivanka Trump and her husband, Jared, working for the President of the United States."
Aides Wrestle Drill From Trump’s Hands As He Tries To Remove Obama Listening Device From Skull
Wow.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:47 PM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
Teens suing U.S. over climate change ask for Exxon's 'Wayne Tracker' emails
posted by futz at 2:51 PM on March 20, 2017 [50 favorites]
posted by futz at 2:51 PM on March 20, 2017 [50 favorites]
She got the neighbors together to fix a wash out of the unpaved road we're on because it's the only way to get to the state highway.
What? They drive on the state highway? Only a moocher would drive on a road they didn't personally build.
posted by rocket88 at 2:53 PM on March 20, 2017 [55 favorites]
What? They drive on the state highway? Only a moocher would drive on a road they didn't personally build.
posted by rocket88 at 2:53 PM on March 20, 2017 [55 favorites]
suggestion...over at kos, there's thetrend of always referring to _rump as, "popular vote loser, donald trump". after seeing approved daughter sitting next to merkel, i suggest, "handbag designer, ivanka trump". to highlight her foreign policy experience.
posted by j_curiouser at 3:00 PM on March 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by j_curiouser at 3:00 PM on March 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
Compare:
Trump today: US “never should have left” Iraq in 2011
Trump 2007-2011: "I'd get out of Iraq right now"
These two can be reconciled by the fact that you should never listen to an idiot like Trump.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:01 PM on March 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
Trump today: US “never should have left” Iraq in 2011
Trump 2007-2011: "I'd get out of Iraq right now"
These two can be reconciled by the fact that you should never listen to an idiot like Trump.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:01 PM on March 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
People--Dolt 45 not least among them, but he ain't alone--have been Monday Morning Quarterbacking Iraq like it's their job since 2007 at least. All those R voters screaming about Killery The Warmonger and how she voted for the war and Trump would never have done such a thing? Yeah, not only did he totally support the war back then, so did they. it's like collective fucking amnesia.
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:06 PM on March 20, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:06 PM on March 20, 2017 [23 favorites]
Nunes is now claiming to have never heard of Carter Page or Roger Stone. That's, um, really not a good look for the head of the House Intelligence Committee.
lol House Lack Of Intelligence Committee more like lol
holds up hands in 'you just got dunked on' fashion while nodding slowly
posted by Sebmojo at 3:07 PM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
lol House Lack Of Intelligence Committee more like lol
holds up hands in 'you just got dunked on' fashion while nodding slowly
posted by Sebmojo at 3:07 PM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Blocking the nomination of a Supreme Court Justice for no basis other than objection to the President who nominated him and the actions of Democrats toward a previous nominee is, by definition, not clearheaded.
Blocking the nomination of a Supreme Court Justice for no basis other than objection to the black President who nominated him.
Don't let the Republicans get away from the most egregious act of fully public U.S. government racism committed prior to The Donald's takeover. They stripped a black president of of an act that was completely within his constitutional power and disenfranchised the millions who voted to give him that authority. It was a pure southern-strategy reconstruction-era flying-dixie move.
It was beneath them to even consider a black president's nominee. In 2016.
Senate comity is some KKK bullshit.
posted by srboisvert at 3:13 PM on March 20, 2017 [89 favorites]
Blocking the nomination of a Supreme Court Justice for no basis other than objection to the black President who nominated him.
Don't let the Republicans get away from the most egregious act of fully public U.S. government racism committed prior to The Donald's takeover. They stripped a black president of of an act that was completely within his constitutional power and disenfranchised the millions who voted to give him that authority. It was a pure southern-strategy reconstruction-era flying-dixie move.
It was beneath them to even consider a black president's nominee. In 2016.
Senate comity is some KKK bullshit.
posted by srboisvert at 3:13 PM on March 20, 2017 [89 favorites]
The Prime Minister of Iraq pulled a funny in front of Trump, saying they had nothing to do with the wiretapping.
Note that body language of the Iraqi PM: he is not taking Trump seriously at all.
posted by mumimor at 3:13 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Note that body language of the Iraqi PM: he is not taking Trump seriously at all.
posted by mumimor at 3:13 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
after seeing approved daughter sitting next to merkel, i suggest, "handbag designer, ivanka trump". to highlight her foreign policy experience.
Speaking of which, this just hit the twitters: Ivanka Trump set to get West Wing office as role expands. She won't be a government employee, but gets an office, phone, and security clearance. She'll continue to own the fashion band.
Also, here's the video of Nunes claiming he's never heard of Carter Page or Roger Stone. There's evidence that he's lying (besides common sense), since he previously confirmed the White House asked him to refute a news report that discussed Page and Stone.
posted by zachlipton at 3:16 PM on March 20, 2017 [36 favorites]
Speaking of which, this just hit the twitters: Ivanka Trump set to get West Wing office as role expands. She won't be a government employee, but gets an office, phone, and security clearance. She'll continue to own the fashion band.
Also, here's the video of Nunes claiming he's never heard of Carter Page or Roger Stone. There's evidence that he's lying (besides common sense), since he previously confirmed the White House asked him to refute a news report that discussed Page and Stone.
posted by zachlipton at 3:16 PM on March 20, 2017 [36 favorites]
Rep Swalwell on CNN just now:
Stalwell said that Roger Stone contacted him on Twitter in the middle of last night and called Stalwell names that "he couldn't repeat on television".
posted by futz at 3:23 PM on March 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
Stalwell said that Roger Stone contacted him on Twitter in the middle of last night and called Stalwell names that "he couldn't repeat on television".
posted by futz at 3:23 PM on March 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
Speaking of which, this just hit the twitters: Ivanka Trump set to get West Wing office as role expands. She won't be a government employee, but gets an office, phone, and security clearance. She'll continue to own the fashion band.
How long until it comes out that she has a POA and she's around to administer medications
posted by fluttering hellfire at 3:25 PM on March 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
How long until it comes out that she has a POA and she's around to administer medications
posted by fluttering hellfire at 3:25 PM on March 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
The new Nouveau Riche Trumpanovs in the White House should remember what happened almost exactly 100 years ago when the people decided they had enough of their shit.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 3:28 PM on March 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 3:28 PM on March 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
Even more maddening, when Nunes asked why he and Rs focused on leaks over Moscow attacking US election. He shrugged & said leaks were the only crime.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
posted by zakur at 3:28 PM on March 20, 2017 [29 favorites]
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
posted by zakur at 3:28 PM on March 20, 2017 [29 favorites]
The new Nouveau Riche Trumpanovs in the White House should remember what happened almost exactly 100 years ago when the people decided they had enough of their shit.
Remember what came next, too.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 3:30 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Remember what came next, too.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 3:30 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump adviser Roger Stone repeatedly claimed to know of forthcoming WikiLeaks dumps
Biden to rally with House Democrats to save Obamacare
posted by futz at 3:32 PM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
Biden to rally with House Democrats to save Obamacare
posted by futz at 3:32 PM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
> The Washington Post brings us the magic of Trump wants to defund PBS. ‘Sesame Street’ brutally parodied him for decades.
Disadvantaged kids to miss out on educational TV under Trump budget
Elmo Learns He Is Laid Off After Trump’s Budget Comes Out
posted by homunculus at 3:34 PM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
Disadvantaged kids to miss out on educational TV under Trump budget
Elmo Learns He Is Laid Off After Trump’s Budget Comes Out
posted by homunculus at 3:34 PM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
He should die in prison, penniless.
That's not going to happen. His piece of shit VP will pardon him and he'll retire to his dacha on the Crimean coast.
posted by pracowity at 3:38 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
That's not going to happen. His piece of shit VP will pardon him and he'll retire to his dacha on the Crimean coast.
posted by pracowity at 3:38 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
All those R voters screaming about Killery The Warmonger and how she voted for the war and Trump would never have done such a thing?
Most of the "Killery" folks were among the Bernie or Bust crowd. If you want to assert that they were all or mostly secret Republicans, then go ahead.
posted by tobascodagama at 3:39 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Most of the "Killery" folks were among the Bernie or Bust crowd. If you want to assert that they were all or mostly secret Republicans, then go ahead.
posted by tobascodagama at 3:39 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's not going to happen. His piece of shit VP will pardon him and he'll retire to his dacha on the Crimean coast.
The Caucasian White House. Baku, Azerbaijan.
Anyone else think this was built with having Exile Palace in mind?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 3:44 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Caucasian White House. Baku, Azerbaijan.
Anyone else think this was built with having Exile Palace in mind?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 3:44 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Point of reference, "Killary" is also used by Benghazi-focused ranters on the Republican side.
posted by redsparkler at 3:44 PM on March 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by redsparkler at 3:44 PM on March 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
The "Killery" thing was a popular right wing talking point throughout the election, unless you want to assert that countless regulars on /the_donald were secret Bernie Bros.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 3:45 PM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 3:45 PM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
His piece of shit VP will pardon him and he'll retire to his dacha on the Crimean coast.
Luckily it won't be too long before we'll all have the opportunity to metaphorically spit on his fucking grave. I hope the dementia takes everything.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:45 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Luckily it won't be too long before we'll all have the opportunity to metaphorically spit on his fucking grave. I hope the dementia takes everything.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:45 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ok, but Killery because Vince Foster is not remotely the same as Killery because hawkish.
posted by tobascodagama at 3:47 PM on March 20, 2017
posted by tobascodagama at 3:47 PM on March 20, 2017
I don't think they care.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 3:48 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 3:48 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Dave Pell's measured essay about Trump's approval rating: This is 37%
During the campaign, Donald Trump marveled at the loyalty of his most ardent supporters.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:51 PM on March 20, 2017 [31 favorites]
My people are so smart, and you know what else they say about my people, the polls? They say I have the most loyal people. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters...
Actually, that’s not quite true.
If Trump stood in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shot somebody, I’m confident he’d see his current approval level of 37% free-fall to about a 36%.
Trump could jerk off onto the constitution while taking a dump on the bible and the GOP still wouldn’t speak out against him. But, his approval rating would almost certainly plummet from 36% to around 35.2%. (I doubt the dip would last more than a couple newscycles.)
WaPo: President Trump faces his hardest truth: He was wrong
Questions about Russia have hung over Trump for months, but the president always has dismissed them as “fake news.” That became much harder Monday after the FBI director proclaimed the Russia probe to be anything but fake.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:57 PM on March 20, 2017 [49 favorites]
“There’s a smell of treason in the air,” presidential historian Douglas Brinkley said. “Imagine if J. Edgar Hoover or any other FBI director would have testified against a sitting president? It would have been a mind-boggling event.”
Pell's assuming DJT's base currently overlaps 100% with the pro-thrill-kill crowd, and/or those into blasphemous and/or unpatriotic scat and onanism. With single-issue voters these, days, it's never safe to assume. Someone might have been a Bernie Bro, but, y'know, likes to do some pretty bad or odd things in their free time. If the 2016 election taught me anything, it's "never assume."
posted by mosk at 4:00 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mosk at 4:00 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
“There’s a smell of treason in the air,”
[sniffing intensifies]
posted by Existential Dread at 4:00 PM on March 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
[sniffing intensifies]
posted by Existential Dread at 4:00 PM on March 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
@pattymo: Congrats to "LOCK HER UP" Crew on its upcoming pivot to "Just Because There's An Investigation Doesn't Mean There Was Any Wrongdoing" Crew
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:02 PM on March 20, 2017 [118 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:02 PM on March 20, 2017 [118 favorites]
So trump is having another stupid fucking pointless rally again tonight?! Given what transpired today it should be interesting I guess. Also, didn't he recently have a rally in KY? Fuck this guy.
posted by futz at 4:03 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by futz at 4:03 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
3 days holiday, 1 day campaigning, 3 days presidenting - that's how the presidential week works isn't it?
posted by Artw at 4:07 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 4:07 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Some interesting thoughts from Ben Wittes on How to Listen to Jim Comey's Testimony on Monday
And here's Lawfare's follow-up, How to Read What Comey Said Today:
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:08 PM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
And here's Lawfare's follow-up, How to Read What Comey Said Today:
One of the only good pieces of news for Trump in this testimony is Comey's formulation of the investigation he announced as a counterintelligence investigation, not a criminal investigation. {....} So when Comey says this is a counterintelligence investigation, not a criminal investigation, he is flagging that prosecuting anyone, let alone the President, may not be his top priority.What are the betting odds that tonight we'll see the frothing-at-the-mouth Trump at his rally tonight, assuming his aides can calm him down like they had to before his Nashville one last week?
All of which makes his apparently gratuitous inclusion of a criminal element in describing the investigation curious. As Comey notes, the criminal component of this investigation is actually always there: "As with any counterintelligence investigation," he said, "this will also include an assessment of whether any crimes were committed." {...} But if a criminal element is always a feature of a counterintelligence probe, why mention it specifically? The answer, I suspect, is that Comey is flagging for the committee, and the public, the possibility that this matter could become criminal at any time. That is, it's not a criminal investigation, Comey is saying . . . yet.{...}
What is clear is that this was a very bad day for the President. In it, we learned that there is an open-ended Russia investigation with no timetable for completion, one that's going hang over Trump's head for a long time, and one to which the FBI director is entirely committed.
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:08 PM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump orders Pershing’s corpse to conduct another punitive invasion of Mexico:
Pershing’s remains were ordered to go to Mexico and “hang ‘em, hang ‘em high,” by the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Joseph Dunford. Dunford hand-delivered the directive to Pershing’s Arlington grave.
The order states that all bad Mexicans encountered are to be exterminated “like cucaraches in that song or whatever it means in Spanish.”
posted by leotrotsky at 4:09 PM on March 20, 2017
Pershing’s remains were ordered to go to Mexico and “hang ‘em, hang ‘em high,” by the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Joseph Dunford. Dunford hand-delivered the directive to Pershing’s Arlington grave.
The order states that all bad Mexicans encountered are to be exterminated “like cucaraches in that song or whatever it means in Spanish.”
posted by leotrotsky at 4:09 PM on March 20, 2017
Dave Pell's measured essay about Trump's approval rating: This is 37%
Call me an optimist, but most people just aren't paying much attention yet. W didn't crash down to 22% until Katrina.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:10 PM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Call me an optimist, but most people just aren't paying much attention yet. W didn't crash down to 22% until Katrina.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:10 PM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
I think you meant to link this, leotrotsky.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:14 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:14 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm hoping his approval rating becomes a number he would date. You know, a 9 or a 10.
posted by nubs at 4:17 PM on March 20, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by nubs at 4:17 PM on March 20, 2017 [19 favorites]
Tee Hee: Tomi Lahren suspended from The Blaze after she admits she's pro-choice.
posted by TwoStride at 4:17 PM on March 20, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 4:17 PM on March 20, 2017 [22 favorites]
Lahren has uttered an awful lot of horrible things - "rape-ugees," "BLM is the new KK," etc. - but the comment that gets her suspended is: "You know what? I’m for limited government, so stay out of my guns, and you can stay out of my body as well."
posted by zakur at 4:22 PM on March 20, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by zakur at 4:22 PM on March 20, 2017 [33 favorites]
The Washington Post brings us the magic of Trump wants to defund PBS. ‘Sesame Street’ brutally parodied him for decades.
While I'm not saying that everyone who wants to defund Sesame Street is racist, it's important to recognize they have the same goals as racists:
posted by peeedro at 4:24 PM on March 20, 2017 [49 favorites]
While I'm not saying that everyone who wants to defund Sesame Street is racist, it's important to recognize they have the same goals as racists:
In 1969, that was still a radical notion in some corners of the country. Here was a TV show putting African-Americans on a level playing field with white characters, showing them not as servants or entertainers, but as equals... An integrated program aimed at impressionable children was too much for the good people of Mississippi. The state's commission for educational television banned the show in May 1970.To some people a children's show with a racially diverse cast, female characters who are more than housewives, and portraying underlying humanity of disabled or HIV-positive characters is simply unacceptable. My great grandfather forbade my mother from letting me and my brothers watch a television show that promoted racial integration, she ignored him of course.
posted by peeedro at 4:24 PM on March 20, 2017 [49 favorites]
Tee Hee: Tomi Lahren suspended from The Blaze after she admits she's pro-choice.
So much for the tolerant right?
I find this so hilarious. She actually believed all the talk about "limited government" and liberty and applied it for herself to abortion. Then they declare she got the "wrong answer" and now she's being vanished.
posted by zachlipton at 4:26 PM on March 20, 2017 [52 favorites]
So much for the tolerant right?
I find this so hilarious. She actually believed all the talk about "limited government" and liberty and applied it for herself to abortion. Then they declare she got the "wrong answer" and now she's being vanished.
posted by zachlipton at 4:26 PM on March 20, 2017 [52 favorites]
"I never thought the leopards would eat MY face!" sobs Tomi Lahren
posted by triggerfinger at 4:27 PM on March 20, 2017 [87 favorites]
posted by triggerfinger at 4:27 PM on March 20, 2017 [87 favorites]
Speaking of hypocrisy, one of the Republicans' biggest complaints about the ACA was the various amendments and pork tacked on to get it passed. Now: GOP leaders pile on sweeteners to sell Obamacare repeal:
Trump is showing up tomorrow to meet with the entire House Republican conference to, I don't know, discover that health care is complicated or something.
posted by zachlipton at 4:36 PM on March 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
The amendment would establish a reserve fund of at least $75 billion for tax credits to help the core constituency that propelled Trump to the White House: Americans between 50 and 64, who would see their premiums skyrocket under the current repeal plan. But the amendment would not set up the tax credits – it would instruct the Senate to do so, forcing House Republicans to take a vote on something the upper chamber would do laterJosh Barro calls this a "$75 billion magic asterisk." Who cares how it happens? That's somebody else's problem: just pass the thing now.
Trump is showing up tomorrow to meet with the entire House Republican conference to, I don't know, discover that health care is complicated or something.
posted by zachlipton at 4:36 PM on March 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
Irrefutable evidence of collusion, by Trump or his associates, would sink the ship. But the far more likely scenario is Trump is a pawn, not a player. What then?
posted by H. Roark at 4:36 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by H. Roark at 4:36 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
KY law would allow allows student groups to discriminate against LGBT people
-- Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin (R) has signed legislation that would allow student organizations at the commonwealth’s public schools and colleges to bar gays, lesbians and transgender people from joining, opening a new front in a national battle over so-called religious freedom laws.
The law, Senate Bill 17, will allow students to engage in religious activities and to express religious views in public schools and in their assignments. It would also allow teachers to include lessons about the Bible in discussions of religion and history.
The legislation stems from a 2015 decision to remove references to Jesus Christ from a student production of “A Charlie Brown Christmas.”
-- The bill passed both the state Senate and state House with broad bipartisan support. Just three state senators and eight House members voted against the new law.
Jesus. Kentucky democrats can go fuck themselves along with the Rupubs. Religion is a helluva drug.
posted by futz at 4:38 PM on March 20, 2017 [20 favorites]
-- Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin (R) has signed legislation that would allow student organizations at the commonwealth’s public schools and colleges to bar gays, lesbians and transgender people from joining, opening a new front in a national battle over so-called religious freedom laws.
The law, Senate Bill 17, will allow students to engage in religious activities and to express religious views in public schools and in their assignments. It would also allow teachers to include lessons about the Bible in discussions of religion and history.
The legislation stems from a 2015 decision to remove references to Jesus Christ from a student production of “A Charlie Brown Christmas.”
-- The bill passed both the state Senate and state House with broad bipartisan support. Just three state senators and eight House members voted against the new law.
Jesus. Kentucky democrats can go fuck themselves along with the Rupubs. Religion is a helluva drug.
posted by futz at 4:38 PM on March 20, 2017 [20 favorites]
But the far more likely scenario is Trump is a pawn, not a player. What then?
To build on the chess metaphor, pawns are there to be sacrificed to either protect pieces of higher value or to gain an advantageous board position. Trump could still be used for either or both.
posted by nubs at 4:41 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
To build on the chess metaphor, pawns are there to be sacrificed to either protect pieces of higher value or to gain an advantageous board position. Trump could still be used for either or both.
posted by nubs at 4:41 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
...but the backdrops peel and the sets give way, and the cast is eaten by the play
there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles.
And the actors and the stand-ins too are uncertain as to what to do
and with nervous looks await their cue
but the frozen mask just smiles.
-Alan Moore
posted by vrakatar at 4:41 PM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles.
And the actors and the stand-ins too are uncertain as to what to do
and with nervous looks await their cue
but the frozen mask just smiles.
-Alan Moore
posted by vrakatar at 4:41 PM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
Irrefutable evidence of collusion, by Trump or his associates, would sink the ship.
We will all be amazed at what people can refute.
posted by Etrigan at 4:43 PM on March 20, 2017 [21 favorites]
We will all be amazed at what people can refute.
posted by Etrigan at 4:43 PM on March 20, 2017 [21 favorites]
Good article on Al Franken: Al Franken may be the perfect senator for the Trump era — a deadly serious funnyman
At the dawn of a presidency that stretches the limits of late-night parody, and at a moment when an out-of-power Democratic Party is trying to find its voice, the former comedian and satirist may be having a breakout moment as a political star.
Al Franken and Paul Wellstone were good friends and Al says he still is inspired by Paul. He has pictures of Paul Wellstone hanging above his desk in the Senate Office Building. He is my senator and I love him as my senator, but I would also really, really love to see him run for POTUS. He's smarter and better than almost anyone else in DC, imo.
posted by triggerfinger at 4:45 PM on March 20, 2017 [55 favorites]
At the dawn of a presidency that stretches the limits of late-night parody, and at a moment when an out-of-power Democratic Party is trying to find its voice, the former comedian and satirist may be having a breakout moment as a political star.
Al Franken and Paul Wellstone were good friends and Al says he still is inspired by Paul. He has pictures of Paul Wellstone hanging above his desk in the Senate Office Building. He is my senator and I love him as my senator, but I would also really, really love to see him run for POTUS. He's smarter and better than almost anyone else in DC, imo.
posted by triggerfinger at 4:45 PM on March 20, 2017 [55 favorites]
The FBI could have said it was also probing Donald Trump when it announced its investigation into Hillary Clinton
posted by futz at 4:50 PM on March 20, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by futz at 4:50 PM on March 20, 2017 [42 favorites]
Slideshow: Twitter trolls Trump Jr. lumberjack pic
posted by porn in the woods at 4:52 PM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by porn in the woods at 4:52 PM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Forbes said that much of the decline in Trump's net worth is due to softness in the midtown Manhattan real estate market.
Why am I so soft in the middle?
The rest of my life is so hard.
posted by nickmark at 4:58 PM on March 20, 2017 [19 favorites]
Why am I so soft in the middle?
The rest of my life is so hard.
posted by nickmark at 4:58 PM on March 20, 2017 [19 favorites]
Except for a few asides, Trump has talked about basically everything besides the healthcare bill: the size of his electoral college victory, coal, the EPA, manufacturing, pipelines, Henry Clay, Andrew Jackson, trade, NAFTA, etc...
The Freedom Caucus is meeting right now (did you know that they like to meet in the basement of a Tex-Mex joint called "Tortilla Coast" where Paul Ryan once worked as a waiter?). I promise you that the members of Congress who he's asking to stick their necks out to vote for this stinker are noticing that he won't publicly stand behind the bill when he's given the chance. He's asking them to stake their re-election on this thing, but he spends all his time talking about coal miners and factories.
posted by zachlipton at 5:01 PM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
The Freedom Caucus is meeting right now (did you know that they like to meet in the basement of a Tex-Mex joint called "Tortilla Coast" where Paul Ryan once worked as a waiter?). I promise you that the members of Congress who he's asking to stick their necks out to vote for this stinker are noticing that he won't publicly stand behind the bill when he's given the chance. He's asking them to stake their re-election on this thing, but he spends all his time talking about coal miners and factories.
posted by zachlipton at 5:01 PM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
Ivanka to get White House office and a security clearance, which is completely a normal thing and not weird in the slightest.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 5:11 PM on March 20, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 5:11 PM on March 20, 2017 [22 favorites]
Weekly List Of Crimes Committed By Undocumented Immigrants In Sanctuary Cities Debuts
Federal authorities on Monday published the first report on crimes committed by undocumented immigrants in so-called sanctuary cities at the behest of President Trump.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:15 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Federal authorities on Monday published the first report on crimes committed by undocumented immigrants in so-called sanctuary cities at the behest of President Trump.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:15 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Of course they meet at a Tex-Mex joint. Typical of racist assholes, they're perfectly content to eat hispanic food and let hispanic people cook for them and serve them, but then also say hateful regressive shit in public about illegals and back a dude who said Mexican immigrants are rapists and criminals and wants to build a #FuckingWall at the border. Fuck these people so damn hard.
posted by supercrayon at 5:15 PM on March 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by supercrayon at 5:15 PM on March 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
NYT: Paul Manafort, Former Trump Campaign Chief, Faces New Allegations in Ukraine. Documents show payments of "$750,000 funneled through an offshore account and disguised as payment for computers." Manafort says its a forgery.
Meanwhile, Trump has finally gotten around to talking about healthcare. He repeats the line that they have to get this done before they can get to "the big tax cuts," a story he's been fed. He rants about how awful Obamacare is for a while and how he's going to "save it all." He has yet to say anything positive about the ACHA except "it's going to be great." His sales pitch is basically "we have to do this boring thing now and then we can get to the fun part of cutting everyone's taxes."
And Mark Meadows is saying that the Freedom Caucus won't take an official "no" position on the ACHA, which could open the door to more GOP votes.
Finally, Fox News is putting Napolitano on ice. Even they won't stand for this.
posted by zachlipton at 5:16 PM on March 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
Meanwhile, Trump has finally gotten around to talking about healthcare. He repeats the line that they have to get this done before they can get to "the big tax cuts," a story he's been fed. He rants about how awful Obamacare is for a while and how he's going to "save it all." He has yet to say anything positive about the ACHA except "it's going to be great." His sales pitch is basically "we have to do this boring thing now and then we can get to the fun part of cutting everyone's taxes."
And Mark Meadows is saying that the Freedom Caucus won't take an official "no" position on the ACHA, which could open the door to more GOP votes.
Finally, Fox News is putting Napolitano on ice. Even they won't stand for this.
posted by zachlipton at 5:16 PM on March 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
Man, where can I go to get a red robe? Women Wore ‘Handmaid’s Tale’ Robes To The Texas Senate Floor
posted by triggerfinger at 5:17 PM on March 20, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by triggerfinger at 5:17 PM on March 20, 2017 [32 favorites]
A quiz from Philip Bump at The Washington Post on the number of coal miners relative to other jobs.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:17 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 5:17 PM on March 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
“There’s a smell of treason in the air,” presidential historian Douglas Brinkley said.
Isn't "Treason" the name of one of Ivanka's colognes?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:21 PM on March 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
Isn't "Treason" the name of one of Ivanka's colognes?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:21 PM on March 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
I've been in a tax conference all day, so thanks to those who were liveblogging the Comey hearing. A few notes on AHCA and tax reform:
-if they pass AHCA, they have a model for creating a GOP coalition that they can use for every future fight (tax reform, infrastructure, etc); so it is really important to make sure AHCA fails (beyond the healthcare impacts)
-if they pass AHCA, the tax cuts included in that become baked in for the next reconciliation bill (tax reform) meaning they need fewer revenue raisers to get that bill to revenue neutrality; there aren't any established mechanisms by which Dems could get JCT or CBO estimates that tie all of these trickling tax cuts together so it will be harder for Dems to create a narrative of tax cuts on the wealthy for the tax reform bill (i.e. GOP is trying to get the big rich ppl cuts now, with legislation they already know will be unpopular, so that they can get a few more later under the political cover of middle class tax cuts)
-Ryan's blueprint and the border adjustment tax would cause serious problems at the state level, since most states piggyback on the federal corporate tax - the new structure wouldn't map onto the old, so states would need to adopt a whole new tax concept (like Ohio or Washington have) or come up with all kinds of other rules. So, when corporate tax reform comes up later this year, calling your state reps and governors about the impact of the changes on state revenues and enforcement costs could be a good strategy, especially if you live in a state with a Republican governor. I'll have much more to say on the state tax impacts once we see a proper bill, but might not be a bad idea to start raising the issue over the next few months/summer if you have a meeting with relevant folks or need something to call or write about.
Basically, we really really need to defeat AHCA and state-level advocacy could be one path to defeating Ryan's tax reform plan. And we really really need to defend Democratic Senate seats in 2018 -- 10 of the Democrats up for reelection are on the Senate Finance Committee.
posted by melissasaurus at 5:23 PM on March 20, 2017 [88 favorites]
-if they pass AHCA, they have a model for creating a GOP coalition that they can use for every future fight (tax reform, infrastructure, etc); so it is really important to make sure AHCA fails (beyond the healthcare impacts)
-if they pass AHCA, the tax cuts included in that become baked in for the next reconciliation bill (tax reform) meaning they need fewer revenue raisers to get that bill to revenue neutrality; there aren't any established mechanisms by which Dems could get JCT or CBO estimates that tie all of these trickling tax cuts together so it will be harder for Dems to create a narrative of tax cuts on the wealthy for the tax reform bill (i.e. GOP is trying to get the big rich ppl cuts now, with legislation they already know will be unpopular, so that they can get a few more later under the political cover of middle class tax cuts)
-Ryan's blueprint and the border adjustment tax would cause serious problems at the state level, since most states piggyback on the federal corporate tax - the new structure wouldn't map onto the old, so states would need to adopt a whole new tax concept (like Ohio or Washington have) or come up with all kinds of other rules. So, when corporate tax reform comes up later this year, calling your state reps and governors about the impact of the changes on state revenues and enforcement costs could be a good strategy, especially if you live in a state with a Republican governor. I'll have much more to say on the state tax impacts once we see a proper bill, but might not be a bad idea to start raising the issue over the next few months/summer if you have a meeting with relevant folks or need something to call or write about.
Basically, we really really need to defeat AHCA and state-level advocacy could be one path to defeating Ryan's tax reform plan. And we really really need to defend Democratic Senate seats in 2018 -- 10 of the Democrats up for reelection are on the Senate Finance Committee.
posted by melissasaurus at 5:23 PM on March 20, 2017 [88 favorites]
melissasaurus, I'm gonna have to read that comment over and over to get it, but I will get it and I already know it's going to make me smarter, so thank you.
posted by lauranesson at 5:32 PM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by lauranesson at 5:32 PM on March 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
> Isn't "Treason" the name of one of Ivanka's colognes?
"Complicit" and "Treason" are two of the fragrances, and they compliment her previous fragrance, "Scion". "EmoluMENts for MEN", her men's body wash, is also drawing a lot of attention these days. Maybe someday it will get the justice it deserves.
These are all part of her "Not a Member of the Administration" line, but unfortunately for her not many people are currently buying this line. {fake}
posted by mosk at 5:33 PM on March 20, 2017 [23 favorites]
"Complicit" and "Treason" are two of the fragrances, and they compliment her previous fragrance, "Scion". "EmoluMENts for MEN", her men's body wash, is also drawing a lot of attention these days. Maybe someday it will get the justice it deserves.
These are all part of her "Not a Member of the Administration" line, but unfortunately for her not many people are currently buying this line. {fake}
posted by mosk at 5:33 PM on March 20, 2017 [23 favorites]
Again with the fucking coal miners?
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:43 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:43 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
The reason Lahren is doing this is because she wants the Megyn Kelly slot on Fox, btw.
posted by longdaysjourney at 5:44 PM on March 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by longdaysjourney at 5:44 PM on March 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
I know this info is probably somewhere in these monster threads, but I was hoping somebody could point out reliable news-sourced cites on the "NEA budget is 148 million and Trump Tower security in NYC is 183 million" meme that's going around on social media. Thanks!
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 5:45 PM on March 20, 2017
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 5:45 PM on March 20, 2017
The reason Lahren is doing this is because she wants the Megyn Kelly slot on Fox, btw.
Is she going to be "the liberal one"?
posted by Artw at 5:51 PM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Is she going to be "the liberal one"?
posted by Artw at 5:51 PM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
The young one.
posted by notyou at 5:54 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by notyou at 5:54 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
COUNTDOWN to act of terror to unify the base and quell opposition. What do you think? Bomb? Airliner going down? What will they come up with?
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 6:02 PM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 6:02 PM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
Is she going to be "the liberal one"?
It'll be the same role Kelly played. Conservative, but with enough of a libertarian streak to please the Fox viewers who don't want their sex lives or those of their friends dictated by the evangelical right.
posted by longdaysjourney at 6:02 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
It'll be the same role Kelly played. Conservative, but with enough of a libertarian streak to please the Fox viewers who don't want their sex lives or those of their friends dictated by the evangelical right.
posted by longdaysjourney at 6:02 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
I know this info is probably somewhere in these monster threads, but I was hoping somebody could point out reliable news-sourced cites on the "NEA budget is 148 million and Trump Tower security in NYC is 183 million" meme that's going around on social media. Thanks!
Trump Tower security is kind of a hairy number to pin down, but Philip Bump at the Post compiled some of the public numbers together in How much is Donald Trump’s travel and protection costing, anyway?. He comes up with a ballpark figure of $200K/day for both New York City costs and federal expenses. If that holds up for the entire year, that's $73 million, but the actual costs may be lower if Melania and Barron move to Washington this summer.
The budget for the National Endowment for the Arts is $148 million/year. The National Endowment for the Humanities has an equal budget.
So it's probably not a perfect comparison in and of itself (I like 1/3600th of the defense budget or 0.006 percent of the federal budget myself). But if we start adding the Mar-a-Lago trips in, it gets pretty close.
posted by zachlipton at 6:03 PM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
Trump Tower security is kind of a hairy number to pin down, but Philip Bump at the Post compiled some of the public numbers together in How much is Donald Trump’s travel and protection costing, anyway?. He comes up with a ballpark figure of $200K/day for both New York City costs and federal expenses. If that holds up for the entire year, that's $73 million, but the actual costs may be lower if Melania and Barron move to Washington this summer.
The budget for the National Endowment for the Arts is $148 million/year. The National Endowment for the Humanities has an equal budget.
So it's probably not a perfect comparison in and of itself (I like 1/3600th of the defense budget or 0.006 percent of the federal budget myself). But if we start adding the Mar-a-Lago trips in, it gets pretty close.
posted by zachlipton at 6:03 PM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
Oooh, I just got an uncharacteristic email from the CEO of Blick (art supply stores), letting me know how I can help save the NEA. (He mentions Americans for the Arts Action Fund)
"...because this action hits so close to who we are, what we do, and who we serve, I feel Blick should play a role in informing our customers and associates about what is being proposed."
posted by Glinn at 6:04 PM on March 20, 2017 [29 favorites]
"...because this action hits so close to who we are, what we do, and who we serve, I feel Blick should play a role in informing our customers and associates about what is being proposed."
posted by Glinn at 6:04 PM on March 20, 2017 [29 favorites]
A quiz from Philip Bump at The Washington Post on the number of coal miners relative to other jobs.
What do you wanna bet we're gonna be able to say, "There were sixteen thousand coal extraction jobs in 2015. So Trump could have doubled the number of coal mining jobs by creating just sixteen thousand more. But he couldn't even do that."
(Or, it lists slightly less than 70k as the total number of coal mining industry jobs beyond those directly involved with extraction, but I bet he won't even make 16k. His flaccid job creation efforts won't get it up that far.)
posted by XMLicious at 6:04 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't think they have to come up with anything. Through sheer incompetence, something terrible will happen. What it is ain't exactly clear.
posted by nat at 6:04 PM on March 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by nat at 6:04 PM on March 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
This may have been asked upthread but I've never understood why we bother to take part in this face off with North Korea. They aren't expansionist. If they were, they are containable. We gain nothing from a hard line with them except a dangerous situation. Just send them food and normalize relations and be done with it.
posted by Philemon at 6:04 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Philemon at 6:04 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Just send them food and normalize relations and be done with it.
We kind of did that (well not the normalize relations part) in the the 1990s. People said it would be rewarding them for their nuclear brinksmanship, and that they or other countries would try to extort aid or other concessions from us in the future with nuclear threats if we did that.
On the one hand, I don't think any other countries are doing that. On the other hand, arguably N. Korea is indeed doing it again.
They are a really nightmarishly horrible regime, though. We definitely should not normalize relations with them.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:12 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
We kind of did that (well not the normalize relations part) in the the 1990s. People said it would be rewarding them for their nuclear brinksmanship, and that they or other countries would try to extort aid or other concessions from us in the future with nuclear threats if we did that.
On the one hand, I don't think any other countries are doing that. On the other hand, arguably N. Korea is indeed doing it again.
They are a really nightmarishly horrible regime, though. We definitely should not normalize relations with them.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:12 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Fox News' report on the Russian hacking hearing would be funny if it wasn't so serious
posted by futz at 6:13 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by futz at 6:13 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
How to Fight Trumpcare: The GOP’s attacks on our already crippled health-care system are an opportunity for the Left to offer an alternative to neoliberalism.
posted by homunculus at 6:16 PM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 6:16 PM on March 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
Thanks, zachlipton!
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:18 PM on March 20, 2017
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:18 PM on March 20, 2017
Rogers' face when he has Trump's recent tweet about conclusions about Russian influence read to him [real]
posted by zakur at 6:18 PM on March 20, 2017 [47 favorites]
posted by zakur at 6:18 PM on March 20, 2017 [47 favorites]
This may have been asked upthread but I've never understood why we bother to take part in this face off with North Korea. They aren't expansionist. If they were, they are containable.
Because they're backed by China with the ultimate goal of pushing US forces out of South East Asia entirely.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:18 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Because they're backed by China with the ultimate goal of pushing US forces out of South East Asia entirely.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:18 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Rogers' face when he has Trump's recent tweet about conclusions about Russian influence read to him [real]
Was hoping for 'stricken', got 'gobsmacked' instead. Not disappointed!
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:23 PM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
Was hoping for 'stricken', got 'gobsmacked' instead. Not disappointed!
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:23 PM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
trump talking about the things that really matter. btw it is a verbal hit.
Trump hits Colin Kaepernick at Kentucky rally
President Trump took aim at former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick on Monday, claiming teams do not want to sign him because of his refusal to stand for the national anthem.
Trump veered off script during a campaign rally in Louisville, Ky., and appeared to claim credit for the player’s free-agent status.
“There was an article today that was reported that NFL owners don’t want to pick him up because they don’t want to get a nasty tweet from Donald Trump. Do you believe that?” the president said, prompting an ovation from the crowd at Freedom Hall.
posted by futz at 6:29 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump hits Colin Kaepernick at Kentucky rally
President Trump took aim at former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick on Monday, claiming teams do not want to sign him because of his refusal to stand for the national anthem.
Trump veered off script during a campaign rally in Louisville, Ky., and appeared to claim credit for the player’s free-agent status.
“There was an article today that was reported that NFL owners don’t want to pick him up because they don’t want to get a nasty tweet from Donald Trump. Do you believe that?” the president said, prompting an ovation from the crowd at Freedom Hall.
posted by futz at 6:29 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Hey, Philemon, it's nowhere near that simple, as OnceUponATime noted. The DPRK is happy to accept aid, but are hostile to NGOs being in their country. When food is sent, it's impossible to know where it's going. It's understood that most of it went to the army and the party elite in Pyongyang. The famine death toll can never be verified because NGOs didn't have aid workers in the countryside and the government's numbers are extremely unreliable. Doctors without Borders were allowed to have something like three doctors in the entire country. Sure, we may "contain" them, but they engage in money laundering, weapons sales to other "bad actors" around the world, and are generally awful to their people (death camps, arresting entire families, lack of adequate nutrition, your usual totalitarian brainwashing). Not to mention they kidnap people from other countries, many of whom were never returned.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:30 PM on March 20, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:30 PM on March 20, 2017 [23 favorites]
Because they're backed by China with the ultimate goal of pushing US forces out of South East Asia entirely.
Not just US forces, but also taking land/sea routes from other Asian countries (Japan, Vietnam, S. Korea, etc). The whole East/SE Asia area is a big standoff between China-backed and US-backed countries, although its actually not quite that simple and the alliances vary depending on the specific border conflicts involved. But N Korea is absolutely part of that ongoing struggle, which affects the US but even more so our allies in the region.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:31 PM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not just US forces, but also taking land/sea routes from other Asian countries (Japan, Vietnam, S. Korea, etc). The whole East/SE Asia area is a big standoff between China-backed and US-backed countries, although its actually not quite that simple and the alliances vary depending on the specific border conflicts involved. But N Korea is absolutely part of that ongoing struggle, which affects the US but even more so our allies in the region.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:31 PM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Honest history question: does anyone but dictatory dudes have rallies after they have already won? Again, honest question.
posted by lauranesson at 6:31 PM on March 20, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by lauranesson at 6:31 PM on March 20, 2017 [36 favorites]
“There was an article today that was reported that NFL owners don’t want to pick him up because they don’t want to get a nasty tweet from Donald Trump. Do you believe that?” the president said, prompting an ovation from the crowd at Freedom Hall.
He's actually right about this, the NFL is #MAGA ground zero.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:32 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
He's actually right about this, the NFL is #MAGA ground zero.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:32 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
("Nightmarish regime" link was supposed to go to this video. Sorry.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:33 PM on March 20, 2017
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:33 PM on March 20, 2017
It's cool. They're all nightmarish regime links nowadays.
posted by rbellon at 6:41 PM on March 20, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by rbellon at 6:41 PM on March 20, 2017 [22 favorites]
Reuters is reporting that next month Tillerson will skip what should have been his first NATO meeting in Brussels in order to help DT fete Chinese President Xi Jinping at Mar-a-Lago. He will then travel to Russia that month.
Their flagrant lack of subtlety is off-putting. I always had thought destroying our diplomatic relations would involve lots of secrecy and behind closed doors machinations. Not "fuck you Europe!11", a round of golf, and vodka shots.
posted by chaoticgood at 6:45 PM on March 20, 2017 [54 favorites]
Their flagrant lack of subtlety is off-putting. I always had thought destroying our diplomatic relations would involve lots of secrecy and behind closed doors machinations. Not "fuck you Europe!11", a round of golf, and vodka shots.
posted by chaoticgood at 6:45 PM on March 20, 2017 [54 favorites]
Is gen doing the courier run with the USB sticks or something? What the fuck is the point of him?
posted by Artw at 6:48 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 6:48 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
I mean, he's got the Moscow connections, I guess it would make sense for him to be the replacement bagman with Flynn out of the picture, but Sleepyhead is just so damn uncommitted to keeping his cover.
He is a shit spy, barely putting the effort in. And Trump is a shit traitor. They're not even trying hard at this or being even remotely competent.
posted by Artw at 6:50 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
He is a shit spy, barely putting the effort in. And Trump is a shit traitor. They're not even trying hard at this or being even remotely competent.
posted by Artw at 6:50 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
DHS releases names of local jails that won't hold immigrants
The Trump administration is naming some names in its efforts to shame local jails that don't cooperate with immigration authorities. It's putting the spotlight on Travis County, Texas, home of liberal Austin.
The administration released a list of 206 cases of immigrants released from custody despite requests from federal agents to keep them locked up. Roughly two-thirds were from Travis County.
Much more in the article.
posted by futz at 6:57 PM on March 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
The Trump administration is naming some names in its efforts to shame local jails that don't cooperate with immigration authorities. It's putting the spotlight on Travis County, Texas, home of liberal Austin.
The administration released a list of 206 cases of immigrants released from custody despite requests from federal agents to keep them locked up. Roughly two-thirds were from Travis County.
Much more in the article.
posted by futz at 6:57 PM on March 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
And Trump is a shit traitor. They're not even trying hard at this or being even remotely competent.
He tweeted at me and I felt a change
Time meant nothin', never would again
posted by petebest at 7:00 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
He tweeted at me and I felt a change
Time meant nothin', never would again
posted by petebest at 7:00 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
EXCLUSIVE: 9/11 families sue Saudi Arabia, accuse the U.S. ally of complicity in the terrorist attacks
The document details how officials from Saudi embassies supported hijackers Salem al-Hazmi and Khalid Al-Mihdhar 18 months before 9/11.
The officials allegedly helped them find apartments, learn English and obtain credit cards and cash. The documents state that the officials helped them learn how to blend into the American landscape.
The suit also produces evidence that officials in the Saudi embassy in Germany supported lead hijacker Mohamed Atta. It claims that a Saudi official was in the same hotel in Virginia with several hijackers the night before the attacks.
Many of the revelations in the lawsuit are culled from findings of an FBI investigation into the terrorist attacks. The suit filed by aviation law firm Kreindler & Kreindler claims some of the hijackers had special markers in their passports, identifying them as al-Qaida sympathizers.
-- The lawsuit asserts that the Saudi royals, who for years had been trying to curry favor with fundamentalists to avoid losing power, were aware that funds from Saudi charities were being funneled to al-Qaida.
-- The lawsuit spells out how money was transferred from charities in Saudi Arabia to the terror group.
800 Families Sue Saudi Arabia for 9/11
1,500 9/11 first responders and the families of 800 victims have filed suit against Saudi Arabia, accusing the country of complicity in the terror attacks, PIX11 reports. The suit, filed in a Manhattan court on Monday, accuses Saudi Arabia of aiding some the 9/11 masterminds by allegedly helping them settle in the United States. The suit also accuses Saudi royals of funneling money to al Qaeda, and alleges that one Saudi official stayed in the hijackers’ Virginia hotel room the night before the attack. Aviation law firm Kreindler & Kreindler is representing the plaintiffs, and has not specified the damages they seek.
posted by futz at 7:05 PM on March 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
The document details how officials from Saudi embassies supported hijackers Salem al-Hazmi and Khalid Al-Mihdhar 18 months before 9/11.
The officials allegedly helped them find apartments, learn English and obtain credit cards and cash. The documents state that the officials helped them learn how to blend into the American landscape.
The suit also produces evidence that officials in the Saudi embassy in Germany supported lead hijacker Mohamed Atta. It claims that a Saudi official was in the same hotel in Virginia with several hijackers the night before the attacks.
Many of the revelations in the lawsuit are culled from findings of an FBI investigation into the terrorist attacks. The suit filed by aviation law firm Kreindler & Kreindler claims some of the hijackers had special markers in their passports, identifying them as al-Qaida sympathizers.
-- The lawsuit asserts that the Saudi royals, who for years had been trying to curry favor with fundamentalists to avoid losing power, were aware that funds from Saudi charities were being funneled to al-Qaida.
-- The lawsuit spells out how money was transferred from charities in Saudi Arabia to the terror group.
800 Families Sue Saudi Arabia for 9/11
1,500 9/11 first responders and the families of 800 victims have filed suit against Saudi Arabia, accusing the country of complicity in the terror attacks, PIX11 reports. The suit, filed in a Manhattan court on Monday, accuses Saudi Arabia of aiding some the 9/11 masterminds by allegedly helping them settle in the United States. The suit also accuses Saudi royals of funneling money to al Qaeda, and alleges that one Saudi official stayed in the hijackers’ Virginia hotel room the night before the attack. Aviation law firm Kreindler & Kreindler is representing the plaintiffs, and has not specified the damages they seek.
posted by futz at 7:05 PM on March 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
That's two Rocky Horror references in this thread. Do I hear three?
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:07 PM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:07 PM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
T.D. Strange: "Because they're backed by China with the ultimate goal of pushing US forces out of South East Asia entirely."
I'm far from an expert on this but my impression the last time I looked into this (I think 2004-ish) was that China was just barely propping up N. Korea -- and, in fact, had put N. Korea in a bit of a bind because they had recently reduced that level of support -- mainly because they didn't want a flood of refugees pouring over their border if/when their state collapsed. I would imagine any deterrent effect that N. Korea has against US forces in Asia (if any) would be outweighed by the potential escalation factor among S. Korea and Japan to amp up their own military capacities, especially Japan which has the long-standing prohibition against having offensive military capabilities.
posted by mhum at 7:09 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm far from an expert on this but my impression the last time I looked into this (I think 2004-ish) was that China was just barely propping up N. Korea -- and, in fact, had put N. Korea in a bit of a bind because they had recently reduced that level of support -- mainly because they didn't want a flood of refugees pouring over their border if/when their state collapsed. I would imagine any deterrent effect that N. Korea has against US forces in Asia (if any) would be outweighed by the potential escalation factor among S. Korea and Japan to amp up their own military capacities, especially Japan which has the long-standing prohibition against having offensive military capabilities.
posted by mhum at 7:09 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's two Rocky Horror references in this thread. Do I hear three?
I'm going to have to leave you quivering with antici....
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:12 PM on March 20, 2017 [28 favorites]
I'm going to have to leave you quivering with antici....
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:12 PM on March 20, 2017 [28 favorites]
China is still by far North Korea's largest trading partner and China clearly has some influence over them. To what degree is debated, thats true, but I think China greatly prefers that situation to one where the US and North Korea had good relations (which was the original suggestion, even though I think thats wildly improbably anyway).
China likes having a random buffer zone thats mostly in their control between them an South Korea. Their nightmare would be a unified, US-allied Korea on their border. They do seem unhappy with North Korea in recent years, but they have pretty clear incentives to keep them around and to keep North Korea apart from South Korea and the US.
posted by thefoxgod at 7:20 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
China likes having a random buffer zone thats mostly in their control between them an South Korea. Their nightmare would be a unified, US-allied Korea on their border. They do seem unhappy with North Korea in recent years, but they have pretty clear incentives to keep them around and to keep North Korea apart from South Korea and the US.
posted by thefoxgod at 7:20 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Josh Marshall, TPM -- "What Did We Learn Today?" -- a nice omnibus summary of the day's revelations that reminds us Marshall was blowing a horn about Russia in July of last year.
posted by spitbull at 7:23 PM on March 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 7:23 PM on March 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'm going to have to leave you quivering with antici....
We'll finish that when Tehhund finally catches up!
posted by TwoStride at 7:24 PM on March 20, 2017 [22 favorites]
We'll finish that when Tehhund finally catches up!
posted by TwoStride at 7:24 PM on March 20, 2017 [22 favorites]
SAY IT!!!!!
posted by yhbc at 7:25 PM on March 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by yhbc at 7:25 PM on March 20, 2017 [17 favorites]
The manager's amendment on the AHCA is out. Major changes include a hack for the New York delegation to forbid that state from charging counties (except New York City) from paying into Medicaid, which would blow up the state's budget. It increases the Medicaid cap for the elderly and disabled by a percentage point, but prohibits any more states from expanding Medicaid and adds block grants for Medicaid. It allows states to add Medicaid work requirements and gives them a small funding bonus if they do. The Cadillac tax is moved from 2026 from 2025. And most significantly, a shell game in which the House passes the thing, but leaves the door open for the Senate to maybe screw the 50-64 year-olds over slightly less.
Mark Meadows says that Ryan doesn't have the votes. Will he bring the thunder?
posted by zachlipton at 7:29 PM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
Mark Meadows says that Ryan doesn't have the votes. Will he bring the thunder?
posted by zachlipton at 7:29 PM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
COUNTDOWN to act of terror to unify the base and quell opposition. What do you think? Bomb? Airliner going down? What will they come up with?
I'm not sure, but this bit of distraction sounds like the beginning of that: US forbids any device larger than cellphone on airlines from 13 countries.
I'm not sure, but this bit of distraction sounds like the beginning of that: US forbids any device larger than cellphone on airlines from 13 countries.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:35 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
US authorities have secretly required airlines from 13 nations to forbid passengers from carrying any electronic or electrical device larger than a cellphone.
The new edict was distributed in an email described as “confidential” from the US transportation safety administration (TSA) on Monday.
[...]
Saudi Arabia’s Saudia Airlines and Royal Jordanian airlines are among the affected countries; the full list has not been revealed to the affected airlines themselves.
[...]
By Monday afternoon, a US official had briefed Reuters that the ban followed a “terrorism threat” and was expected to be announced on Tuesday.
...garettes?
posted by um at 7:35 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by um at 7:35 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
RawStory, sourced via McClatchy:
"Breitbart and Infowars under investigation for ties to Russia: report."
WASHINGTON — Federal investigators are examining whether far-right news sites played any role last year in a Russian cyber operation that dramatically widened the reach of news stories — some fictional — that favored Donald Trump's presidential bid, two people familiar with the inquiry say.
Operatives for Russia appear to have strategically timed the computer commands, known as "bots," to blitz social media with links to the pro-Trump stories at times when the billionaire businessman was on the defensive in his race against Democrat Hillary Clinton, these sources said.
posted by spitbull at 7:36 PM on March 20, 2017 [38 favorites]
"Breitbart and Infowars under investigation for ties to Russia: report."
WASHINGTON — Federal investigators are examining whether far-right news sites played any role last year in a Russian cyber operation that dramatically widened the reach of news stories — some fictional — that favored Donald Trump's presidential bid, two people familiar with the inquiry say.
Operatives for Russia appear to have strategically timed the computer commands, known as "bots," to blitz social media with links to the pro-Trump stories at times when the billionaire businessman was on the defensive in his race against Democrat Hillary Clinton, these sources said.
posted by spitbull at 7:36 PM on March 20, 2017 [38 favorites]
I mean, he's got the Moscow connections, I guess it would make sense for him to be the replacement bagman with Flynn out of the picture, but Sleepyhead is just so damn uncommitted to keeping his cover.
He is a shit spy, barely putting the effort in. And Trump is a shit traitor. They're not even trying hard at this or being even remotely competent.
posted by Artw at 8:50 PM on March 20
Well, clearly, they don't need to be. The Republicans will give them all the room and clearance they need, as long as they get to starve grannies, hate Muslims, and give the rest of our treasure to the 150 wealthiest people in the nation.
We have become a death cult. The Republicans want to destroy the country. They've said they want to destroy the ability for the nation to be governed as an indivisible nation. They want a theocracy of rich white men who get to hold all the resources and dole it out as they want to be they think are deserving.
The 45cultists want the country to fall. They are accelerationists, and they are pressing down on the gas pedal as hard as they can. We have been taken over, the call was coming from inside the House all along.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:37 PM on March 20, 2017 [33 favorites]
He is a shit spy, barely putting the effort in. And Trump is a shit traitor. They're not even trying hard at this or being even remotely competent.
posted by Artw at 8:50 PM on March 20
Well, clearly, they don't need to be. The Republicans will give them all the room and clearance they need, as long as they get to starve grannies, hate Muslims, and give the rest of our treasure to the 150 wealthiest people in the nation.
We have become a death cult. The Republicans want to destroy the country. They've said they want to destroy the ability for the nation to be governed as an indivisible nation. They want a theocracy of rich white men who get to hold all the resources and dole it out as they want to be they think are deserving.
The 45cultists want the country to fall. They are accelerationists, and they are pressing down on the gas pedal as hard as they can. We have been taken over, the call was coming from inside the House all along.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:37 PM on March 20, 2017 [33 favorites]
The absurdity of this year brings this RHPS snippet to my thoughts.
And crawling on the planets face, some insects called the human race. Lost in time and lost in space.
And meaning....
posted by Radiophonic Oddity at 7:38 PM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
And crawling on the planets face, some insects called the human race. Lost in time and lost in space.
And meaning....
posted by Radiophonic Oddity at 7:38 PM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
That electronics ban is so completely enraging and unworkable--it's disastrous for tourism and business to the US (no one is putting their laptop or camera in checked luggage, FFS!)--and so it really does seem designed to invite some kind of retaliatory attack on a US airline. I--just--this one's my last straw for the day, friends.
posted by TwoStride at 7:41 PM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 7:41 PM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
The folks from CREW have the lead op-ed in USA Today tomorrow: Trump's unprecedented war on ethics: The president and his Cabinet are heading for a train wreck of a magnitude unseen since Watergate.
posted by triggerfinger at 7:44 PM on March 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by triggerfinger at 7:44 PM on March 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
(seeing them so confident makes me feel a little bit better about things)
posted by triggerfinger at 7:45 PM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by triggerfinger at 7:45 PM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
WaPo: This German reporter took on Trump. Now she’s being hailed at home.
BERLIN — President Trump’s first meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel may have resembled the comedic awkwardness of a Sacha Baron Cohen movie. But an unlikely star was born during the bizarre Trump and Merkel show.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:51 PM on March 20, 2017 [43 favorites]
Kristina Dunz.
The self-effacing German journalist was thrust into the spotlight Friday, when she stood up at their White House news conference in what became an Emperor-Has-No-Clothes moment. Over the weekend, her instant fame snowballed, particularly in her native Germany, where Dunz’s exchange with Trump has suddenly become a defining moment for Internet memes and late-night TV monologues.
An interesting hidden side effect of killing the NEA: it ends the Arts and Artifacts Indemnity Program, which for 40+ years has insured some of the most valuable works of art at museums, saving millions in premiums. It allows museums to run a traveling exhibit of, say, a billion dollars or so worth of Monets, as coverage would be unaffordable on the commercial market. It also costs the government next to nothing: two staff, some office supplies, and "in the 41 years of the program, only two payments have ever been made, according to a spokeswoman for the National Endowment for the Arts. One of those checks was returned to the U.S. Treasury when two paintings thought to have gone missing were found. The total amount of the other claim? $4,700."
posted by zachlipton at 7:55 PM on March 20, 2017 [91 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:55 PM on March 20, 2017 [91 favorites]
1,500 9/11 first responders and the families of 800 victims have filed suit against Saudi Arabia, accusing the country of complicity in the terror attacks, PIX11 reports. The suit, filed in a Manhattan court on Monday, accuses Saudi Arabia of aiding some the 9/11 masterminds by allegedly helping them settle in the United States. The suit also accuses Saudi royals of funneling money to al Qaeda, and alleges that one Saudi official stayed in the hijackers’ Virginia hotel room the night before the attack. Aviation law firm Kreindler & Kreindler is representing the plaintiffs, and has not specified the damages they seek.
I'm sure that SCROTUS will handle the fallout from this clusterfuck with grace and aplomb.
posted by Talez at 7:56 PM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm sure that SCROTUS will handle the fallout from this clusterfuck with grace and aplomb.
posted by Talez at 7:56 PM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the foreign press is going to be able to ask the questions and tell the narratives that the domestic press can't or won't.
This isn't to say that some domestic outlets aren't doing good work, given the circumstances. But foreign media are going to be less afraid and more objective about the crisis of American democracy and governance to which we're bearing horrified witness.
Don't just follow WaPo and NYT; keep an eye on the world press as well.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:01 PM on March 20, 2017 [31 favorites]
This isn't to say that some domestic outlets aren't doing good work, given the circumstances. But foreign media are going to be less afraid and more objective about the crisis of American democracy and governance to which we're bearing horrified witness.
Don't just follow WaPo and NYT; keep an eye on the world press as well.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:01 PM on March 20, 2017 [31 favorites]
.. pation.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:02 PM on March 20, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:02 PM on March 20, 2017 [29 favorites]
That RawStory link on Breitbart et al under investigation in the Russia probe isn't working for me; in case others are having the same problem, here's a direct link to McClatchy (which, btw, in the opinion of this longtime reporter, has the best investigative team in Washington):
FBI’s Russian-influence probe includes a look at far-right news sites
posted by martin q blank at 8:08 PM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
FBI’s Russian-influence probe includes a look at far-right news sites
posted by martin q blank at 8:08 PM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
Huh, the RawStory link is working for me. But thanks, I had looked for the direct McClatchy link and not found it.
And yeah they're great.
posted by spitbull at 8:10 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
And yeah they're great.
posted by spitbull at 8:10 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Joey Michaels: ".. pation."
Too soon.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:13 PM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
Too soon.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:13 PM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
What do you think? Bomb? Airliner going down? What will they come up with?
Not for the first time I've thought of Escobar during all this mess.
posted by juiceCake at 8:13 PM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not for the first time I've thought of Escobar during all this mess.
posted by juiceCake at 8:13 PM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Is this really as weird as it sounds, or am I missing something here?
NYT: House Republican leaders, trying to lock down the votes of wavering upstate New York Republicans, inserted a last-minute special provision in their health care bill that would shift Medicaid costs from New York’s counties to its state government. The move — one of a number of late changes designed to gain more votes — would affect New York State only.
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:19 PM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
NYT: House Republican leaders, trying to lock down the votes of wavering upstate New York Republicans, inserted a last-minute special provision in their health care bill that would shift Medicaid costs from New York’s counties to its state government. The move — one of a number of late changes designed to gain more votes — would affect New York State only.
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:19 PM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's precisely as weird as it sounds, and it even has a "screw over New York City" clause built-in. It's a sweetener to try to get upstate reps to vote for the bill, so they can stick it to Cuomo.
posted by zachlipton at 8:21 PM on March 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:21 PM on March 20, 2017 [15 favorites]
NYT and Sean Spicer are apparently having a late night war on Twitter.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:24 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:24 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is this really as weird as it sounds, or am I missing something here?
Perfectly in line with the animating principal of the Republican party: fuck liberals.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:24 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Perfectly in line with the animating principal of the Republican party: fuck liberals.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:24 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
TrumpCare continues to not be popular:
A new HuffPost/YouGov poll finds the public opposes the GOP health care bill by a 21-point margin ― 45% to 24% ― with 31% unsure.posted by Chrysostom at 8:25 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
The GOP plan also is on the wrong side of a significant gap in intensity, with just 5% strongly favoring the bill, and 32% strongly opposed.
@GlennThrush: "BREAKING @PressSec denies Trump tweets give him agita: 'It's just not true. I haven't commented on the tweets to anyone including my wife.'"
That...does not seem credible, especially as he spends half his weekends dealing with Trump tweets.
That's in response to Trump’s Weary Defenders Face Fresh Worries, which stated that Spicer told allies that the tweets are making his job harder. Spicer, of course, didn't respond to requests for comment, then lashed out at the Times after the story was published. That story also contains this incredibly disturbing paragraph:
That...does not seem credible, especially as he spends half his weekends dealing with Trump tweets.
That's in response to Trump’s Weary Defenders Face Fresh Worries, which stated that Spicer told allies that the tweets are making his job harder. Spicer, of course, didn't respond to requests for comment, then lashed out at the Times after the story was published. That story also contains this incredibly disturbing paragraph:
People close to the president say Mr. Trump’s Twitter torrent had less to do with fact, strategy or tactic than a sense of persecution bordering on faith: He simply believes that he was bugged in some way, by someone, and that evidence will soon appear to back him up.posted by zachlipton at 8:25 PM on March 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Judge Gorsuch who spoke in the Senate today is nothing like the man who wrote his opinions
If you somehow needed more justification to oppose the monstrous Neil Gorsuch, he's transparently lying to Congress about not being a conservative ideologue.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:29 PM on March 20, 2017 [35 favorites]
If you somehow needed more justification to oppose the monstrous Neil Gorsuch, he's transparently lying to Congress about not being a conservative ideologue.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:29 PM on March 20, 2017 [35 favorites]
[Trump] simply believes that he was bugged in some way, by someone, and that evidence will soon appear to back him up.
So that Onion story was true after all?
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:31 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
So that Onion story was true after all?
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:31 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
New York State only
In light of Shelby County's affirmation of the "equal sovereignty of the states" and prohibition of disparate treatment of the states, it would seem that this provision is plainly unconstitutional. It's a garbage opinion, but it is nonetheless the controlling precedent at the moment.
posted by dirge at 8:39 PM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
In light of Shelby County's affirmation of the "equal sovereignty of the states" and prohibition of disparate treatment of the states, it would seem that this provision is plainly unconstitutional. It's a garbage opinion, but it is nonetheless the controlling precedent at the moment.
posted by dirge at 8:39 PM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
less to do with fact, strategy or tactic than a sense of persecution bordering on faith
wow. there is a clinical term for this: paranoid delusion. jiminy. ricky d, keep a sharp eye on that football.
posted by j_curiouser at 8:40 PM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
wow. there is a clinical term for this: paranoid delusion. jiminy. ricky d, keep a sharp eye on that football.
posted by j_curiouser at 8:40 PM on March 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
>> New York State only
> ... this provision is plainly unconstitutional.
But, like, isn't that obvious to the sharp minds that represent us upstate New Yorkers in Congress? If Tom Reed's vote can be bought by a provision that is unconstitutional on its face and will be stayed in a hot minute, then ... isn't he being taken for a chump?
(Maybe I should call his office and ask, eh?)
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:49 PM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
> ... this provision is plainly unconstitutional.
But, like, isn't that obvious to the sharp minds that represent us upstate New Yorkers in Congress? If Tom Reed's vote can be bought by a provision that is unconstitutional on its face and will be stayed in a hot minute, then ... isn't he being taken for a chump?
(Maybe I should call his office and ask, eh?)
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:49 PM on March 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
Now that Ivanka's getting a security clearance, it's worth thinking about her role in the shady-as-all-hell Baku project in Azerbaijan, covered in detail by the New Yorker (which has been posted before in these threads). Ivanka was "the most senior Trump Organization official on the Baku project." Presumably her involvement in this kind of thing, which carries a risk of criminal charges, would make her as vulnerable to blackmail as her old man appears to be.
posted by Dr. Send at 8:50 PM on March 20, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by Dr. Send at 8:50 PM on March 20, 2017 [37 favorites]
If Tom Reed's vote can be bought by a provision that is unconstitutional on its face and will be stayed in a hot minute, then ... isn't he being taken for a chump?
Worse than that, he's being set up to lose a high profile fight with Cuomo. How's that going to look?
But a sharp guy like Tom Reed has probably thought like eleventy moves ahead about that. If I were in his district, I'd be pretty excited to hear about his totally awesome plan to stick it to Cuomo when this thing gets bogged down in ruinously expensive lawsuits.
posted by dirge at 9:06 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Worse than that, he's being set up to lose a high profile fight with Cuomo. How's that going to look?
But a sharp guy like Tom Reed has probably thought like eleventy moves ahead about that. If I were in his district, I'd be pretty excited to hear about his totally awesome plan to stick it to Cuomo when this thing gets bogged down in ruinously expensive lawsuits.
posted by dirge at 9:06 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Pentagon has never been audited. That's astonishing
On Thursday, Donald Trump released a preliminary budget proposal that calls for a $52bn increase in military spending. But just last December, a Washington Post investigation found that the Pentagon had buried a report that outlines $125bn in waste at the Department of Defense. That gap between lawmakers’ calls to blindly increase spending at DoD versus those of internal auditors to curtail its waste isn’t a new problem, and it’s one that, without pressure, won’t be resolved any time soon.
That’s because although it’s required to by law, the DoD has never had an audit, something every American person, every company and every other government agency is subject to. The result is an astounding $10tn in taxpayer money that has gone unaccounted for since 1996.
“Over the last 20 years, the Pentagon has broken every promise to Congress about when an audit would be completed,” the director of the Audit the Pentagon coalition, Rafael DeGennaro, told the Guardian. “Meanwhile, Congress has more than doubled the Pentagon’s budget.”
Legislation in the early 1990s demanded that all government agencies had annual audits, but the Pentagon has exempted itself without consequence for 20 years now, telling the Government Accountability Office (GAO) that collecting and organizing the required information for a full audit is too costly and time-consuming.
-- As reports and news articles about waste and abuse at the Pentagon pile up, prominent voices from across the political spectrum – from Bernie Sanders to Ted Cruz to Grover Norquist – are expressing support for a full audit of DoD.
posted by futz at 9:06 PM on March 20, 2017 [46 favorites]
On Thursday, Donald Trump released a preliminary budget proposal that calls for a $52bn increase in military spending. But just last December, a Washington Post investigation found that the Pentagon had buried a report that outlines $125bn in waste at the Department of Defense. That gap between lawmakers’ calls to blindly increase spending at DoD versus those of internal auditors to curtail its waste isn’t a new problem, and it’s one that, without pressure, won’t be resolved any time soon.
That’s because although it’s required to by law, the DoD has never had an audit, something every American person, every company and every other government agency is subject to. The result is an astounding $10tn in taxpayer money that has gone unaccounted for since 1996.
“Over the last 20 years, the Pentagon has broken every promise to Congress about when an audit would be completed,” the director of the Audit the Pentagon coalition, Rafael DeGennaro, told the Guardian. “Meanwhile, Congress has more than doubled the Pentagon’s budget.”
Legislation in the early 1990s demanded that all government agencies had annual audits, but the Pentagon has exempted itself without consequence for 20 years now, telling the Government Accountability Office (GAO) that collecting and organizing the required information for a full audit is too costly and time-consuming.
-- As reports and news articles about waste and abuse at the Pentagon pile up, prominent voices from across the political spectrum – from Bernie Sanders to Ted Cruz to Grover Norquist – are expressing support for a full audit of DoD.
posted by futz at 9:06 PM on March 20, 2017 [46 favorites]
You guys, the Ivanka thing, it's just sent me over the border of WTFistan. I'm quivering with rage, and it's hard to focus on being productive in the resistance when flames are coming up the side of your face, and then I found this:
Rescued possum babies having a midnight fruit snack. I thought a few seconds of happy possums might cheer everyone up.
Now, I have to go learn how channel rage into the telekinetic power of laser-bees. Cause I'm pretty sure we're gonna need laser-bees.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:06 PM on March 20, 2017 [27 favorites]
Rescued possum babies having a midnight fruit snack. I thought a few seconds of happy possums might cheer everyone up.
Now, I have to go learn how channel rage into the telekinetic power of laser-bees. Cause I'm pretty sure we're gonna need laser-bees.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:06 PM on March 20, 2017 [27 favorites]
Why would she need security clearance?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:09 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:09 PM on March 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Because 45 needs someone to read the big words to him.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:13 PM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:13 PM on March 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
Regimes are typically family operations.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:16 PM on March 20, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:16 PM on March 20, 2017 [21 favorites]
Why would she need security clearance?
Market research; gotta be able to position her brand.
posted by nubs at 9:16 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Market research; gotta be able to position her brand.
posted by nubs at 9:16 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Tangential to the Ivanka thing, I keep wondering why there aren't any Senators upset about the fact that the Secretary of State they confirmed isn't doing that job, but the President's son in law, who's never been through a confirmation hearing, is. I get that the President has broad power to appoint "advisors" with nebulous job descriptions, but surely having one of those conspicuously execute the duties of a cabinet post is a profound insult to the Senate's Advice and Consent responsibility. You'd think there'd be a few of them jealous enough of their own prerogatives to make a few faint whimpering noises about that.
posted by dirge at 9:17 PM on March 20, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by dirge at 9:17 PM on March 20, 2017 [39 favorites]
If we were really running the government like a business, wouldn't we fire the people who can't get it done with a military budget bigger than the next eight countries combined and make them do more with less? That's the exact rationale they've given for cutting other departments' budgets.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:17 PM on March 20, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 9:17 PM on March 20, 2017 [43 favorites]
Now that Ivanka's getting a security clearance, it's worth thinking about her role in the shady-as-all-hell Baku project in Azerbaijan, covered in detail by the New Yorker (which has been posted before in these threads). Ivanka was "the most senior Trump Organization official on the Baku project." Presumably her involvement in this kind of thing, which carries a risk of criminal charges, would make her as vulnerable to blackmail as her old man appears to be.
Fingers crossed, I think we know the identity of one of the new cast members of next season's Orange Is The New Black!
posted by CommonSense at 9:20 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Fingers crossed, I think we know the identity of one of the new cast members of next season's Orange Is The New Black!
posted by CommonSense at 9:20 PM on March 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
I was wondering if it might be so at least somebody named Trump would be reading the various reports
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:24 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:24 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
wouldn't we fire the people who can't get it done
When it comes to the military, we've recently been very careful to avoid clearly defining the "it" that they're supposed to get done. This is a thing that business people do when they've decided ahead of time that they don't want to fire people, no matter how useless they are.
For contrast, see the metrics and accountability crap they're applying to education. That's a thing that business people do when they've already decided they want to fire you.
posted by dirge at 9:28 PM on March 20, 2017 [55 favorites]
When it comes to the military, we've recently been very careful to avoid clearly defining the "it" that they're supposed to get done. This is a thing that business people do when they've decided ahead of time that they don't want to fire people, no matter how useless they are.
For contrast, see the metrics and accountability crap they're applying to education. That's a thing that business people do when they've already decided they want to fire you.
posted by dirge at 9:28 PM on March 20, 2017 [55 favorites]
And if you haven't seen this before, here's another guy who had Donald pegged
Is this a new Russian video!?
...in 1989... R. Crumb.
Nope. Oh well. Perhaps Crumb was prescient?
posted by futz at 9:39 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Is this a new Russian video!?
...in 1989... R. Crumb.
Nope. Oh well. Perhaps Crumb was prescient?
posted by futz at 9:39 PM on March 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
@GlennF: James Comey walks away from the hearing, his limp disappears, he puts on sunglasses, lights a cig. Car pulls up. Pete Postlethwaite driving.
posted by mosk at 9:51 PM on March 20, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by mosk at 9:51 PM on March 20, 2017 [23 favorites]
On a day with so many political WTFs, and I'm sure I'm missing something:
- The FBI Director reveals that the White House is the subject of a counterintelligence investigation.
- That's been in the works since last July, and he didn't actually say anything during the election, even as he made Clinton's emails a deeply public matter.
- Comey also says the President is wrong about wiretapping, fact checks @POTUS tweet from the hearing.
- Most Republicans were more concerned about who's talking to the press than any of the above.
- The Chair of the House Intelligence Committee claimed not to have heard of Carter Page or Roger Stone, two central figures in the scandal he's supposed to be investigating.
- Spicer claims the campaign's Chairman and the National Security Advisor were but bit players with a "very limited role."
- Said Chairman, who in fact had a very big role, is accused of receiving $750,000 in payments through a secretive Ukrainian slush fund. He says the documents are forgeries and he's the one being blackmailed.
- The President's daughter is getting a West Wing office and a security clearance
- The GOP is falling apart over their effort to take healthcare away from tens of millions of people, in part because some of their members don't think it takes away enough healthcare from enough people.
- One of the GOP's rising stars is suspended because it turned out she actually bought the whole "limited government" thing and doesn't believe in the "except for women's bodies" asterisk that's attached
- Fox News suspends a commentator because the White House was taking his flimsy reporting seriously.
- The President met with the Prime Minister of Iraq, who made a wiretapping joke. The President also contradicted years worth of prior statements on Iraq.
- DHS puts out a list of crimes committed by immigrants, blames police agencies for not having them all deported.
- The President rants on Twitter about fake news.
- The President has another campaign rally, 60 days into the job, where he took credit for keeping Colin Kaepernick unemployed.
- Confirmation hearings start for a Supreme Court Justice to fill a stolen seat, but nobody much cared because of all of the above.
Of all of those things, I still keep coming back to the thoroughly shameless one:
- Tillerson plans to skip NATO meeting, visit Russia in April
Why? Just, why? After all of those things that happened just on flipping Monday, what would possibly possess these people to adopt a plan in which we snub NATO allies and meet with Russia? Did they learn nothing? Of course not. They have no sense, no shame. They don't care.
And if the FBI Director publicly announcing that they are the subject of a counterintelligence investigation for colluding with Russia doesn't produce the slightest sense of shame, doesn't even make them change their behavior to seem ever so slightly less cartoonishly ridiculous, what possibly would do the trick?
posted by zachlipton at 10:46 PM on March 20, 2017 [105 favorites]
- The FBI Director reveals that the White House is the subject of a counterintelligence investigation.
- That's been in the works since last July, and he didn't actually say anything during the election, even as he made Clinton's emails a deeply public matter.
- Comey also says the President is wrong about wiretapping, fact checks @POTUS tweet from the hearing.
- Most Republicans were more concerned about who's talking to the press than any of the above.
- The Chair of the House Intelligence Committee claimed not to have heard of Carter Page or Roger Stone, two central figures in the scandal he's supposed to be investigating.
- Spicer claims the campaign's Chairman and the National Security Advisor were but bit players with a "very limited role."
- Said Chairman, who in fact had a very big role, is accused of receiving $750,000 in payments through a secretive Ukrainian slush fund. He says the documents are forgeries and he's the one being blackmailed.
- The President's daughter is getting a West Wing office and a security clearance
- The GOP is falling apart over their effort to take healthcare away from tens of millions of people, in part because some of their members don't think it takes away enough healthcare from enough people.
- One of the GOP's rising stars is suspended because it turned out she actually bought the whole "limited government" thing and doesn't believe in the "except for women's bodies" asterisk that's attached
- Fox News suspends a commentator because the White House was taking his flimsy reporting seriously.
- The President met with the Prime Minister of Iraq, who made a wiretapping joke. The President also contradicted years worth of prior statements on Iraq.
- DHS puts out a list of crimes committed by immigrants, blames police agencies for not having them all deported.
- The President rants on Twitter about fake news.
- The President has another campaign rally, 60 days into the job, where he took credit for keeping Colin Kaepernick unemployed.
- Confirmation hearings start for a Supreme Court Justice to fill a stolen seat, but nobody much cared because of all of the above.
Of all of those things, I still keep coming back to the thoroughly shameless one:
- Tillerson plans to skip NATO meeting, visit Russia in April
Why? Just, why? After all of those things that happened just on flipping Monday, what would possibly possess these people to adopt a plan in which we snub NATO allies and meet with Russia? Did they learn nothing? Of course not. They have no sense, no shame. They don't care.
And if the FBI Director publicly announcing that they are the subject of a counterintelligence investigation for colluding with Russia doesn't produce the slightest sense of shame, doesn't even make them change their behavior to seem ever so slightly less cartoonishly ridiculous, what possibly would do the trick?
posted by zachlipton at 10:46 PM on March 20, 2017 [105 favorites]
Nothing to see here. (Sorry for the bad linking, tweet sharing confuses the hell out of me.)
David Slack @slack2thefuture
This is illegal, btw.
5 U.S. Code § 3110 - Employment of relatives
Adam Khan @Khanoisseur
Tweeted this a month ago: today they made it official-First Lady Ivanka Trump to get a West Wing office
Meanwhile...
Ted Lieu @tedlieu
Note to White House @PressSec: A #VeryLimitedRole in collusion with Russia would still be collusion with Russia.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:04 PM on March 20, 2017 [56 favorites]
David Slack @slack2thefuture
This is illegal, btw.
5 U.S. Code § 3110 - Employment of relatives
Adam Khan @Khanoisseur
Tweeted this a month ago: today they made it official-First Lady Ivanka Trump to get a West Wing office
Meanwhile...
Ted Lieu @tedlieu
Note to White House @PressSec: A #VeryLimitedRole in collusion with Russia would still be collusion with Russia.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:04 PM on March 20, 2017 [56 favorites]
Steven Stosny is one of the experts on abusive behavior whose books I recommend to people. I checked to see if he had anything to say about this ongoing horror show. This is probably mickey mouse level for most people here, but it bears repeating:
There are three levels of connection . . . . The first is community, where emotional connection is based less on personal relationships than shared values, goals, or experiences. I advised most of my female clients to participate in the Women’s March on Washington.posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 11:31 PM on March 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
The second level of connection is intimate – . . . Reach out to friends and loved ones. But don’t just text or email them. Meet them, call them, hear their voices and see their faces.
The third level of connection is spiritual, which has a variety of manifestations, among them religious or meditative and appreciation of natural or creative beauty. Whatever means the most to you, do more of it in this unsettling time.
Stand up for what you believe. Write letters, demonstrate, lobby Congress, and so on, remembering that you’ll be most effective (and feel better) when focused on the change you want to see.
but unfortunately for her not many people are currently buying this line
omgggggggg you win thread
posted by en forme de poire at 1:23 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
omgggggggg you win thread
posted by en forme de poire at 1:23 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
It has been said before, I think, but bears repeating. Trump imagines that by avoiding intelligence briefings, (where all of this most certainly would come up), he can avoid liability. This is a "trick" he has used several times in civil suits against him. He somehow doesn't get that government is not a business.
posted by mumimor at 1:33 AM on March 21, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 1:33 AM on March 21, 2017 [31 favorites]
Why? Just, why? After all of those things that happened just on flipping Monday, what would possibly possess these people to adopt a plan in which we snub NATO allies and meet with Russia? Did they learn nothing? Of course not. They have no sense, no shame. They don't care.
Time for Donald Trump (Я), maybe.
posted by jaduncan at 1:34 AM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
Time for Donald Trump (Я), maybe.
posted by jaduncan at 1:34 AM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
(and yes, I'm aware that works as a symbol rather than the (Р) it would logically be)
posted by jaduncan at 1:38 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by jaduncan at 1:38 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
[Trump] simply believes that he was bugged in some way, by someone, and that evidence will soon appear to back him up.
There are two, not necessarily mutually exclusive, ways of looking at this. One is persecution paranoia, the other is Trump's Mirror - a manifestation of the narcissitic mind seeing only aspects of themselves and their actions in other people and their actions. We know he used surveillance for pleasure and profit in the oast.
Either way, it's yet another factor in the Jengo game of presidency 45.
posted by Devonian at 1:55 AM on March 21, 2017
There are two, not necessarily mutually exclusive, ways of looking at this. One is persecution paranoia, the other is Trump's Mirror - a manifestation of the narcissitic mind seeing only aspects of themselves and their actions in other people and their actions. We know he used surveillance for pleasure and profit in the oast.
Either way, it's yet another factor in the Jengo game of presidency 45.
posted by Devonian at 1:55 AM on March 21, 2017
Man Josh Marshall at Talkingpointsmemo has been knocking it out of the park with sustained, unflashy digging around the Russia story. If you have some bucks you want to spend on a good cause, send them than his way.
posted by Sebmojo at 2:07 AM on March 21, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by Sebmojo at 2:07 AM on March 21, 2017 [23 favorites]
(Jenga. Not Jengo. No idea what Jengo is. Probably a fruit drink.)
posted by Devonian at 2:50 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 2:50 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
This NYT title says everything about Trump, the GOP and all of their supporters.
G.O.P. Responds to F.B.I. Inquiry by Changing Subject.
It's hypocrisy...and I can see the Trumpniks in my family using the same tactics.
posted by Spumante at 2:55 AM on March 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
G.O.P. Responds to F.B.I. Inquiry by Changing Subject.
It's hypocrisy...and I can see the Trumpniks in my family using the same tactics.
posted by Spumante at 2:55 AM on March 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
Time for Donald Trump (Я), maybe.
...
(and yes, I'm aware that works as a symbol rather than the (Р) it would logically be)
Trump's loyalty is obviously more to himself than to any party, so Я works.
posted by Etrigan at 3:08 AM on March 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
...
(and yes, I'm aware that works as a symbol rather than the (Р) it would logically be)
Trump's loyalty is obviously more to himself than to any party, so Я works.
posted by Etrigan at 3:08 AM on March 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
No idea what Jengo is.
Jingoistic Jenga, presumably.
posted by NMcCoy at 4:00 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Jingoistic Jenga, presumably.
posted by NMcCoy at 4:00 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
WaPo has a story about that weird exchange I live blogged above between Turner, Wenstrup, and Comey about the Feb. 14th New York Times article.
That exhange makes more sense in context: this was the article the White House (improperly) asked the FBI to publicly shoot down. Which Comey refused to do. Wenstrup and Turner were trying to get Comey to do it in the hearing, since he wouldn't before...
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:15 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
That exhange makes more sense in context: this was the article the White House (improperly) asked the FBI to publicly shoot down. Which Comey refused to do. Wenstrup and Turner were trying to get Comey to do it in the hearing, since he wouldn't before...
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:15 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Trump's loyalty is obviously more to himself than to any party, so Я works.
Hah. Indeed.
posted by jaduncan at 4:30 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hah. Indeed.
posted by jaduncan at 4:30 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
School Choice Fight in Iowa May Preview the One Facing Trump: Iowa is one of the states where legislators this year proposed education savings accounts, an even more expansive benefit. The accounts give parents state money each year — under one proposal, in the form of a $5,000 debit card — that they can use on private school tuition, home schooling costs, online education or tutoring.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:09 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:09 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
How do you destroy public education?
One gift card at a time.
posted by box at 5:13 AM on March 21, 2017 [27 favorites]
One gift card at a time.
posted by box at 5:13 AM on March 21, 2017 [27 favorites]
I can't seem to search for this, so does anyone remember a weird thing from last week about a meeting in France with...I think one of the Trump Boys From Brazil, but definitely a Trump-related person, and there was someone in the meeting that no one seemed to be able to identify? I'm trying to find an uodate.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:14 AM on March 21, 2017
posted by Room 641-A at 5:14 AM on March 21, 2017
How do you destroy public education?
One gift card at a time.
They're already destroying public education by forcing teachers to teach bullshit. School choice might be the only choice left to get out of the shambles of of public "education". At this point the best option in a lot of these states might be to use school choice to start up a parallel education system that isn't completely fucked up.
posted by Talez at 5:19 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
One gift card at a time.
They're already destroying public education by forcing teachers to teach bullshit. School choice might be the only choice left to get out of the shambles of of public "education". At this point the best option in a lot of these states might be to use school choice to start up a parallel education system that isn't completely fucked up.
posted by Talez at 5:19 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
I hope this evil bit of shit is investigated as well.
How a Putin Fan Overseas Pushed Pro-Trump Propaganda to Americans.
posted by adamvasco at 5:24 AM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
How a Putin Fan Overseas Pushed Pro-Trump Propaganda to Americans.
posted by adamvasco at 5:24 AM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
School choice might be the only choice left to get out of the shambles of of public "education"
As pointed out in that article, though, school choice is a huge misnomer. Most of the non-public schools participating in choice are religious, and all of them are some sort of Christian school, and many of them cannot accommodate a child with a disability or special need.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:25 AM on March 21, 2017 [33 favorites]
As pointed out in that article, though, school choice is a huge misnomer. Most of the non-public schools participating in choice are religious, and all of them are some sort of Christian school, and many of them cannot accommodate a child with a disability or special need.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:25 AM on March 21, 2017 [33 favorites]
I was a little annoyed with that NYTimes article about the school choice debate in Iowa, just because it seemed like they wrote an article using the established template from places like New York, and it didn't really get at how the debate is different here. Rural schools in Iowa are already struggling, and this proposal would take money from them by giving vouchers to families who homeschool. There are no private schools in much of the state, and there's no feasible way to have multiple school systems in many areas in Iowa. The population density doesn't support it. All this does is shut down local schools and force rural kids to spend hours on the bus to get to school, or else they get homeschooled whether their parents want to or can adequately homeschool or not. It's an assault on rural Iowa, as well as an assault on public education. There are plenty of super-religious people who don't want to see their local high school close down.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:26 AM on March 21, 2017 [59 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:26 AM on March 21, 2017 [59 favorites]
Now that Ivanka's getting a security clearance, it's worth thinking about her role in the shady-as-all-hell Baku project in Azerbaijan, covered in detail by the New Yorker (which has been posted before in these threads). Ivanka was "the most senior Trump Organization official on the Baku project." Presumably her involvement in this kind of thing, which carries a risk of criminal charges, would make her as vulnerable to blackmail as her old man appears to be.
I'm starting to think you can't blackmail people who have no sense of shame.
posted by winna at 5:34 AM on March 21, 2017 [30 favorites]
I'm starting to think you can't blackmail people who have no sense of shame.
posted by winna at 5:34 AM on March 21, 2017 [30 favorites]
So also yesterday, Trump organizes his biggest crowd since the inauguration and staying on message better than usual says the usual blather about putting miners back to work, fighting radical Islamic terrorism, getting rid of the job killing EPA and HOW HE WON THE ELECTION, REMEMBER?
And then the America first stuff ending with The Future Belongs to Us! and out.
Worthy of note Rand Paul was in town just before, but just couldn't stay for the rally.
posted by readery at 5:38 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
And then the America first stuff ending with The Future Belongs to Us! and out.
Worthy of note Rand Paul was in town just before, but just couldn't stay for the rally.
posted by readery at 5:38 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump's loyalty is obviously more to himself than to any party, so Я works.
MIЯЯOЯ, MIЯЯOЯ...
posted by Devonian at 5:41 AM on March 21, 2017
MIЯЯOЯ, MIЯЯOЯ...
posted by Devonian at 5:41 AM on March 21, 2017
I'm starting to think you can't blackmail people who have no sense of shame.
It's a lot harder to blackmail someone who has friends on the relevant police force.
posted by jaduncan at 5:54 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's a lot harder to blackmail someone who has friends on the relevant police force.
posted by jaduncan at 5:54 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
ЯEDЯUM, ЯEDЯUM
And then the murders began.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:57 AM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
And then the murders began.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:57 AM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm starting to think you can't blackmail people who have no sense of shame.
It's difficult to do anything to people who have no sense of shame. This is the lesson we need to learn fro this whole debacle: people who don't care that everyone knows they are lying can't be kept from lying. They're just going to lie. And lie. And lie. And everyone's going to be like, 'Yo, you're lying!" And they'll ignore that and lie some more. You can't stop them. You can't make them go away. You can't make them start telling the truth. It doesn't matter how many times you accuse them of lying--they don't care, and they'll just lie some more. The only way to do anything about that is if their lie is against the law and someone with standing decides to take legal action.
This is how abusers can be so successful. If you feel no shame, if you have no conscience, if you don't think other people are real, you can pretty much do anything unless and until you do something that puts you in jail (which requires that the person you do it to has the power and standing to actually accomplish that). This is a lesson on how heavily we rely on social norms to do the heavy lifting.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:06 AM on March 21, 2017 [74 favorites]
ТЯЦМР!
Problem with this is that doesn't work except in writing. You can't pronounce it differently.
That's why I prefer Benedict Donald.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:09 AM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
Problem with this is that doesn't work except in writing. You can't pronounce it differently.
That's why I prefer Benedict Donald.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:09 AM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
ending with The Future Belongs to Us! and out.
Fun fact: many of the first results Google returns when you search "Tomorrow Belongs To Me" are from Stormfront, and the except suggests they believe it to be a folk song that predates the Nazis, rather than a terrifying showtune written by two Jews.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:09 AM on March 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
Fun fact: many of the first results Google returns when you search "Tomorrow Belongs To Me" are from Stormfront, and the except suggests they believe it to be a folk song that predates the Nazis, rather than a terrifying showtune written by two Jews.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:09 AM on March 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
And if the FBI Director publicly announcing that they are the subject of a counterintelligence investigation for colluding with Russia doesn't produce the slightest sense of shame, doesn't even make them change their behavior to seem ever so slightly less cartoonishly ridiculous, what possibly would do the trick?
I'd wonder more about the continued efficacy of a counterintelligence investigation that Comey just announced was ongoing to the entire world. I'm guessing... zero? Close to zero? THAT'S GENERALLY WHY THEY'RE KEPT SECRET.
posted by indubitable at 6:10 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'd wonder more about the continued efficacy of a counterintelligence investigation that Comey just announced was ongoing to the entire world. I'm guessing... zero? Close to zero? THAT'S GENERALLY WHY THEY'RE KEPT SECRET.
posted by indubitable at 6:10 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Josh Marshall on how Trumpcare guts Medicaid, which will devastate even those middle and upper middle class families with family member in nursing homes.
I want to say "surely this," but...you know.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:17 AM on March 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
I want to say "surely this," but...you know.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:17 AM on March 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
Fun fact: many of the first results Google returns when you search "Tomorrow Belongs To Me" are from Stormfront, and the except suggests they believe it to be a folk song that predates the Nazis, rather than a terrifying showtune written by two Jews.
Wait, you're telling me the White Supremacists are ill-informed?! Why, I never!
The next thing you'll tell me is that they don't know what the fuck an Aryan is.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:21 AM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
Wait, you're telling me the White Supremacists are ill-informed?! Why, I never!
The next thing you'll tell me is that they don't know what the fuck an Aryan is.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:21 AM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
ТЯЦМР!
Problem with this is that doesn't work except in writing. You can't pronounce it differently.
posted by leotrotsky
Of all the people who ought to know it doesn't even work in writing -- if you read Cyrillic, Comrade Trotsky!
posted by spitbull at 6:21 AM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Problem with this is that doesn't work except in writing. You can't pronounce it differently.
posted by leotrotsky
Of all the people who ought to know it doesn't even work in writing -- if you read Cyrillic, Comrade Trotsky!
posted by spitbull at 6:21 AM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'd wonder more about the continued efficacy of a counterintelligence investigation that Comey just announced was ongoing to the entire world. I'm guessing... zero? Close to zero? THAT'S GENERALLY WHY THEY'RE KEPT SECRET.
Comey did note that he was surprised at how flagrant the Russians had been in meddling with the election. How brazen it was fed into its effectiveness and undermining our faith in the electoral process. So my guess is that the evidence is in plain sight and this public announcement doesn't change that aspect of the investigation.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:22 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Comey did note that he was surprised at how flagrant the Russians had been in meddling with the election. How brazen it was fed into its effectiveness and undermining our faith in the electoral process. So my guess is that the evidence is in plain sight and this public announcement doesn't change that aspect of the investigation.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:22 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
So, hey, Trump had one of his silly sodding rallies yesterday and the media is still interested in real things rather than that? That's progress, I guess.
posted by Artw at 6:24 AM on March 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:24 AM on March 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
Of all the people who ought to know it doesn't even work in writing -- if you read Cyrillic, Comrade Trotsky!
Wait. You mean it's not pronounced Tyatsmrr?
posted by leotrotsky at 6:24 AM on March 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
Wait. You mean it's not pronounced Tyatsmrr?
posted by leotrotsky at 6:24 AM on March 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
Part of me wonder if Comey isnt frantically signaling that the least he can do is pin everything on the Russians, hoping the admin will admit the reality of that, make some grumpy noises and move on, but it just isn't happening because they are too fucking dumb to work anything with any degree of subtlety.
posted by Artw at 6:26 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:26 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Пожалуйста
posted by spitbull at 6:27 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 6:27 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Families of Hundreds of 9/11 Victims Sue Government of Saudi Arabia
Saudi Arabia wants Trump to drop 9/11 victims law
Let's see who Trump sides with. Difficulty: Obama actually vetoed the 9/11 bill, which was overridden by Congress.
On another note, how crazy is the idea being floated that Trump was a Trojan Horse to get Kushner in?
posted by Room 641-A at 6:29 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Saudi Arabia wants Trump to drop 9/11 victims law
Let's see who Trump sides with. Difficulty: Obama actually vetoed the 9/11 bill, which was overridden by Congress.
On another note, how crazy is the idea being floated that Trump was a Trojan Horse to get Kushner in?
posted by Room 641-A at 6:29 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'd wonder more about the continued efficacy of a counterintelligence investigation that Comey just announced was ongoing to the entire world. I'm guessing... zero? Close to zero? THAT'S GENERALLY WHY THEY'RE KEPT SECRET.
Adding to what C'est la D.C.wrote, Trump is the president, FCS, he must have been briefed on this investigation ages ago (at least after the inauguration). He knows this is going on, and he is gambling that it can't hurt him because the Republicans aren't going to do anything about it.
posted by mumimor at 6:30 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Adding to what C'est la D.C.wrote, Trump is the president, FCS, he must have been briefed on this investigation ages ago (at least after the inauguration). He knows this is going on, and he is gambling that it can't hurt him because the Republicans aren't going to do anything about it.
posted by mumimor at 6:30 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Pin it on the Russians
Still has to be a fallguy or three. And the problem with that is who doubts Flynn or Manafort starts spilling the beans when faced with risk of conviction?
posted by spitbull at 6:30 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Still has to be a fallguy or three. And the problem with that is who doubts Flynn or Manafort starts spilling the beans when faced with risk of conviction?
posted by spitbull at 6:30 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
On another note, how crazy is the idea being floated that Trump was a Trojan Horse to get Kushner in?Honestly, crazy enough that I wonder if Kushner isn't becoming a Soros-like stand-in for "the Jews." Because seriously: that's goofy.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:31 AM on March 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
Or maybe Mike Pence is actually the Russian deep cover plant running the whole operation and the idea was always to get him in. The screenplay business will never be the same.
posted by spitbull at 6:33 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 6:33 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Hmm, the person who mentioned it to me definitely isn't using Kushner as a dog whistle, not that his source wasn't.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:34 AM on March 21, 2017
posted by Room 641-A at 6:34 AM on March 21, 2017
They do have the problem that they don't have many guys who WEREN'T having mysterious meetings with Russians, or at least aware of them and lying under oath about it.
posted by Artw at 6:35 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 6:35 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Because honestly now that we know the "lied to Mike Pence" line was always a bullshit excuse (I.e LIE) for firing Flynn, that means Mike Pence is a liar in on the coverup. Let's hope no one regards him as a secure fallback Nazi.
posted by spitbull at 6:36 AM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 6:36 AM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
Does mean that the awful-but-more-normal-VP-takes-over plan is a bit of a bust. Not that he wasn't always a dead eyed torture freak.
posted by Artw at 6:39 AM on March 21, 2017
posted by Artw at 6:39 AM on March 21, 2017
So, hey, Trump had one of his silly sodding rallies yesterday and the media is still interested in real things rather than that? That's progress, I guess.
Depends on which media you are talking about. Fox News, for example, ran a big story on the rally, as if it was the most important Trump news of the day.
posted by Annabelle74 at 6:41 AM on March 21, 2017
Depends on which media you are talking about. Fox News, for example, ran a big story on the rally, as if it was the most important Trump news of the day.
posted by Annabelle74 at 6:41 AM on March 21, 2017
Trump is the president, FCS, he must have been briefed on this investigation ages ago (at least after the inauguration)
I wouldn't take that for granted. Remember when Sally Yates* warned the Trump admin that Flynn may be compromised? Comey recommended that she *not* tell the administration. I wonder if Comey, unsure of who in the admin was also compromised, wanted to keep Trump's circle in the dark about this specific issue until the FBI could learn more.
*If they call for a special prosecutor, I hear she's between jobs.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 6:41 AM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
I wouldn't take that for granted. Remember when Sally Yates* warned the Trump admin that Flynn may be compromised? Comey recommended that she *not* tell the administration. I wonder if Comey, unsure of who in the admin was also compromised, wanted to keep Trump's circle in the dark about this specific issue until the FBI could learn more.
*If they call for a special prosecutor, I hear she's between jobs.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 6:41 AM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Remember how the Trumpies kept saying Hillary Clinton couldn't get national security intelligence briefings because she was under FBI investigation?
posted by spitbull at 6:43 AM on March 21, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 6:43 AM on March 21, 2017 [36 favorites]
Does mean that the awful-but-more-normal-VP-takes-over plan is a bit of a bust. Not that he wasn't always a dead eyed torture freak.
Well, none of any of it is going to happen unless Congress decides they're sick of dealing with Trump. If they want to continue riding that tiger, they're going to do it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:44 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Let's see who Trump sides with. Difficulty: Obama actually vetoed the 9/11 bill, which was overridden by Congress.
Trump decried the veto when it happened. The law is almost universally wanted in Congress. I doubt there's going to be any motivation to go die on that hill even if Salman threatens another 1973.
posted by Talez at 6:46 AM on March 21, 2017
Trump decried the veto when it happened. The law is almost universally wanted in Congress. I doubt there's going to be any motivation to go die on that hill even if Salman threatens another 1973.
posted by Talez at 6:46 AM on March 21, 2017
Nice NYT tool for identifying how individual Republican reps feel about AHCA.
If you have a hardline Republican rep, what's the moral calculus for contacting them and playacting a Teahadist to get them to continue to oppose the bill on grounds that it's not cruel enough?
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:50 AM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
If you have a hardline Republican rep, what's the moral calculus for contacting them and playacting a Teahadist to get them to continue to oppose the bill on grounds that it's not cruel enough?
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:50 AM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
I wouldn't take that for granted. Remember when Sally Yates* warned the Trump admin that Flynn may be compromised? Comey recommended that she *not* tell the administration. I wonder if Comey, unsure of who in the admin was also compromised, wanted to keep Trump's circle in the dark about this specific issue until the FBI could learn more.
I had to look that up, because that wasn't what I remembered: here is an article (syndicated to avoid paywalls) from WP. Relevant quotes:
Yates, Clapper and Brennan argued for briefing the incoming administration so the new president could decide how to deal with the matter. The officials discussed options, including telling Pence, the incoming White House counsel, the incoming chief of staff or Trump himself.
FBI Director James B. Comey initially opposed notification, citing concerns that it could complicate the agency’s investigation.
and then:
Yates again raised the issue with Comey, who now backed away from his opposition to informing the White House. Yates and the senior career national security official spoke to McGahn, the White House counsel, who didn’t respond Monday to a request for comment.
posted by mumimor at 6:51 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
I had to look that up, because that wasn't what I remembered: here is an article (syndicated to avoid paywalls) from WP. Relevant quotes:
Yates, Clapper and Brennan argued for briefing the incoming administration so the new president could decide how to deal with the matter. The officials discussed options, including telling Pence, the incoming White House counsel, the incoming chief of staff or Trump himself.
FBI Director James B. Comey initially opposed notification, citing concerns that it could complicate the agency’s investigation.
and then:
Yates again raised the issue with Comey, who now backed away from his opposition to informing the White House. Yates and the senior career national security official spoke to McGahn, the White House counsel, who didn’t respond Monday to a request for comment.
posted by mumimor at 6:51 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
what's the moral calculus for contacting them and playacting a Teahadist to get them to continue to oppose the bill on grounds that it's not cruel enough?
I'm genuinely interested in what people think about this idea.
posted by a complicated history at 6:56 AM on March 21, 2017
I'm genuinely interested in what people think about this idea.
posted by a complicated history at 6:56 AM on March 21, 2017
what's the moral calculus for contacting them and playacting a Teahadist to get them to continue to oppose the bill on grounds that it's not cruel enough?
No. Just no.
That feels to me a lot like the accelerationism that a lot of us were decrying before the election -- and now that we're in that timeline, doesn't it feel pretty shitty?
If nothing else, you are encouraging horrible people to continue acting in horrible ways, and have a non-zero chance of contributing to the very real pain of many people. I couldn't do it.
posted by jammer at 6:59 AM on March 21, 2017 [33 favorites]
No. Just no.
That feels to me a lot like the accelerationism that a lot of us were decrying before the election -- and now that we're in that timeline, doesn't it feel pretty shitty?
If nothing else, you are encouraging horrible people to continue acting in horrible ways, and have a non-zero chance of contributing to the very real pain of many people. I couldn't do it.
posted by jammer at 6:59 AM on March 21, 2017 [33 favorites]
what's the moral calculus for contacting them and playacting a Teahadist to get them to continue to oppose the bill on grounds that it's not cruel enough?
I'm genuinely interested in what people think about this idea.
They'll just make the existing bill crueler AND increase the odds that it passes.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:00 AM on March 21, 2017 [17 favorites]
I'm genuinely interested in what people think about this idea.
They'll just make the existing bill crueler AND increase the odds that it passes.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:00 AM on March 21, 2017 [17 favorites]
No. Just no.
That feels to me a lot like the accelerationism that a lot of us were decrying before the election -- and now that we're in that timeline, doesn't it feel pretty shitty?
Yeah, as someone who voted for Trump in an open Republican primary to increase Hillary's odds of election, please don't do this.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:01 AM on March 21, 2017 [30 favorites]
That feels to me a lot like the accelerationism that a lot of us were decrying before the election -- and now that we're in that timeline, doesn't it feel pretty shitty?
Yeah, as someone who voted for Trump in an open Republican primary to increase Hillary's odds of election, please don't do this.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:01 AM on March 21, 2017 [30 favorites]
If you have a hardline Republican rep, what's the moral calculus for contacting them and playacting a Teahadist to get them to continue to oppose the bill on grounds that it's not cruel enough?
Sounds like the kind of thing you'll regret when you're waiting in line at the monthly Traveling Freedom Clinic, hoping that they're not out of antibiotics by the time you reach the front and, failing that, that you can get closer to the front of the line next month at the Amputation Booth.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:01 AM on March 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
Sounds like the kind of thing you'll regret when you're waiting in line at the monthly Traveling Freedom Clinic, hoping that they're not out of antibiotics by the time you reach the front and, failing that, that you can get closer to the front of the line next month at the Amputation Booth.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:01 AM on March 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'm genuinely interested in what people think about this idea.
In that it involves lying and dishonesty, I'm agin it. You can most certainly give people enough rope, but you can't tell them it's a pretty necklace.
posted by Devonian at 7:02 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Because honestly now that we know the "lied to Mike Pence" line was always a bullshit excuse (I.e LIE) for firing Flynn, that means Mike Pence is a liar in on the coverup. Let's hope no one regards him as a secure fallback Nazi.
Of course, that just leaves us with President Zombie-Eyed Grannie Starver.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:03 AM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
Of course, that just leaves us with President Zombie-Eyed Grannie Starver.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:03 AM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
Josh Marshall on how Trumpcare guts Medicaid, which will devastate even those middle and upper middle class families with family member in nursing homes.
My grandma passed away from Alzheimer's a few years ago, I helped my mom and Grandpa get her onto Medicaid, re configuring their assets and spending down a bunch of Grandpa's savings to get below the tiny threshold. Her costs were $4,000/day before Medicaid took over towards the end. No one can afford full-time nursing home care. No one.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:03 AM on March 21, 2017 [47 favorites]
My grandma passed away from Alzheimer's a few years ago, I helped my mom and Grandpa get her onto Medicaid, re configuring their assets and spending down a bunch of Grandpa's savings to get below the tiny threshold. Her costs were $4,000/day before Medicaid took over towards the end. No one can afford full-time nursing home care. No one.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:03 AM on March 21, 2017 [47 favorites]
If you have a hardline Republican rep, what's the moral calculus for contacting them and playacting a Teahadist to get them to continue to oppose the bill on grounds that it's not cruel enough?
1. What's beyond the pale when fighting Nazis? Because we're fighting Nazis.
2. Do you think for a SECOND that they would think twice about this?
3. Does anyone seriously think we can beat Nazis if we continually bring our Marquess of Queensbury rules to a fight where they've brought guns, chemical weapons, and water boarding?
War isn't a civilized pursuit. We didn't start it, but we're in it. The only thing left to decide is if we want to win.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:03 AM on March 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
1. What's beyond the pale when fighting Nazis? Because we're fighting Nazis.
2. Do you think for a SECOND that they would think twice about this?
3. Does anyone seriously think we can beat Nazis if we continually bring our Marquess of Queensbury rules to a fight where they've brought guns, chemical weapons, and water boarding?
War isn't a civilized pursuit. We didn't start it, but we're in it. The only thing left to decide is if we want to win.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:03 AM on March 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
Sorry, that was more fight-y than I intended. I'm just...like they are literally trying to destroy the Republic and low key murder people as a likely pre-amble to just a straight up ethnic cleansing and murder party.
I sort of think whatever gets the job done is acceptable.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:06 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
I sort of think whatever gets the job done is acceptable.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:06 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
(It's entirely an academic question for me because the only Republican elected representative I have anywhere up or down the ticket is Pat Toomey, who won't be voting on this for quite some time, if ever, and if he does he's the blandest, most tone-deaf, most cowardly elected official this side of the Mississippi and he'll just vote for whatever is stuck in front of him by Yertle.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:06 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:06 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
War isn't a civilized pursuit. We didn't start it, but we're in it. The only thing left to decide is if we want to win.
The only question should be, "What would Republicans do if the situation were reversed?". They would lie brazenly pretending to be Bernie bros. Disinfo ops on Teahadist Congresscretins are fair game. It's your first amendment right to say whatever the fuck you want to Congress, and if they're stupid enough to believe you and vote the way you want them to, that's a win. Norms are dead. Only power matters.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:08 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
The only question should be, "What would Republicans do if the situation were reversed?". They would lie brazenly pretending to be Bernie bros. Disinfo ops on Teahadist Congresscretins are fair game. It's your first amendment right to say whatever the fuck you want to Congress, and if they're stupid enough to believe you and vote the way you want them to, that's a win. Norms are dead. Only power matters.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:08 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh, Maxine, I love you but please don't get our hopes up like this.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:10 AM on March 21, 2017 [60 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:10 AM on March 21, 2017 [60 favorites]
MAXINE.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:13 AM on March 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 7:13 AM on March 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
dances_with_sneetches: Isn't "Treason" the name of one of Ivanka's colognes?
No, you're thinking of Complicit, which got people heading to the dictionary, and Trumpinistas saying they'd buy complicit ... which is just so deliciously ironic, that it actually burns.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:14 AM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
No, you're thinking of Complicit, which got people heading to the dictionary, and Trumpinistas saying they'd buy complicit ... which is just so deliciously ironic, that it actually burns.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:14 AM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
They'll just make the existing bill crueler AND increase the odds that it passes.
Except that nothing that is slaveringly approved of by the House Freedom Caucus has a prayer of passing the Senate. That's the main bind they're in right now with this thing. They can't please both the Teahadists and (enough) Senate Republicans with the same bill. Paul Ryan is basically just ramming this thing through the House so he can stick McConnell with it and say "Good luck" while running as fast as he can in the opposite direction. Ryan then gets to go back and tell his base that he did his best to starve as many grannies as possible, but those fuck-ups in the Senate just couldn't get it together and boo hoo, we'll try again later, once you people elect some REAL reactionaries to the Senate, which you should do at the earliest available opportunity *cough2018cough*
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:17 AM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Johnny Wallflower: WaPo: This German reporter took on Trump. Now she’s being hailed at home.
BERLIN — President Trump’s first meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel may have resembled the comedic awkwardness of a Sacha Baron Cohen movie. But an unlikely star was born during the bizarre Trump and Merkel show.
Kristina Dunz.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:26 AM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
BERLIN — President Trump’s first meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel may have resembled the comedic awkwardness of a Sacha Baron Cohen movie. But an unlikely star was born during the bizarre Trump and Merkel show.
Kristina Dunz.
She suggested that she was simply doing her job, as well as her homework. She worked on the question beforehand and was advised by a colleague in Washington to ask the question in German to avoid being cut off by Trump.US reporters can copy points 1 and 2, but #3 will be tricky. Perhaps ask in pig latin? I mean, it's not that tricky to decipher, but it'll take Trump a moment to muddle through it.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:26 AM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
Perhaps ask in pig latin? I mean, it's not that tricky to decipher, but it'll take Trump a moment to muddle through it.
Except that he's already fluent in pig.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:31 AM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Except that he's already fluent in pig.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:31 AM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
So, so proud to be a native Angeleno right now. Schiff and Waters. WonderTwins, activate!
posted by Sophie1 at 7:32 AM on March 21, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 7:32 AM on March 21, 2017 [22 favorites]
From DiFei:
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:33 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
“We’re working on a bill that would do that now ... We’re working on a couple of bills that would deal with conflicts of interest.”...neither of which will go anywhere because we don't have the votes.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:33 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Maxine pls.
posted by asteria at 7:38 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by asteria at 7:38 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
From DiFei:
“We’re working on a bill that would do that now ... We’re working on a couple of bills that would deal with conflicts of interest.”
...neither of which will go anywhere because we don't have the votes.
...and Trump has the veto.
posted by Gelatin at 7:40 AM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
“We’re working on a bill that would do that now ... We’re working on a couple of bills that would deal with conflicts of interest.”
...neither of which will go anywhere because we don't have the votes.
...and Trump has the veto.
posted by Gelatin at 7:40 AM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
roomthreeseventeen: school choice is a huge misnomer. Most of the non-public schools participating in choice are religious, and all of them are some sort of Christian school, and many of them cannot accommodate a child with a disability or special need.
And you have a choice only if you can pony up the rest of the tuition:
And private schools don't face the same scrutiny regarding the material being taught, so if you do find a school where the tuition voucher covers most if not all of the cost, don't be surprised if the cut-rate education comes at a cost to the students' understanding of key concepts.
Fuck "school choice," just fund public schools and support them to the point that employers can be confident in their new hires.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:40 AM on March 21, 2017 [34 favorites]
And you have a choice only if you can pony up the rest of the tuition:
For Ms. Kakayo and her husband, the best part may be that the school costs them only $85 per month. As it does for one-third of St. Theresa students, the state covers more than half of Alma’s $3,025 tuition in a program that resembles the Trump administration’s proposal for a federal private school choice plan.Emphasis mine: that still means that parents still directly pay for their children's education.
And private schools don't face the same scrutiny regarding the material being taught, so if you do find a school where the tuition voucher covers most if not all of the cost, don't be surprised if the cut-rate education comes at a cost to the students' understanding of key concepts.
Fuck "school choice," just fund public schools and support them to the point that employers can be confident in their new hires.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:40 AM on March 21, 2017 [34 favorites]
Here's hoping for some world class barn doors post-midterm.
posted by Artw at 7:41 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:41 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
DiFei came out of her fundraiser to give those tidbits to a bunch of protesters, so maybe she's just heard how many people want to primary her.
Still, though. Two high profile Dems in a day.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:42 AM on March 21, 2017
Still, though. Two high profile Dems in a day.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:42 AM on March 21, 2017
False hopes or not, if DiFi and Maxine want to normalize the idea of impeachment or resignation, it's fine with me.
posted by klarck at 7:42 AM on March 21, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by klarck at 7:42 AM on March 21, 2017 [40 favorites]
WaPo: Trump didn’t lie, Jeffrey Lord says on CNN. He just speaks a different language — ‘Americanese.’
Lord saw it differently, repeating the claim by some Trump backers that he didn’t mean what he said about wiretapping and therefore couldn’t be lying.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:42 AM on March 21, 2017 [27 favorites]
Trump, he said, was speaking “Americanese” when he tweeted that Obama had orchestrated a “Nixon/Watergate” plot against him. The president’s supporters knew what he meant, but Washington insiders didn’t and blew it out of proportion.
Cooper and other guests seemed baffled.
“What you’re arguing then is the FBI and the Justice Department are mistaken for taking the president literally because they don’t speak Americanese?” Cooper asked.
Trump, he said, was speaking “Americanese”
Fuck yooooouuuuuu
How's that for Americanese you rat bastard
posted by schadenfrau at 7:44 AM on March 21, 2017 [68 favorites]
Fuck yooooouuuuuu
How's that for Americanese you rat bastard
posted by schadenfrau at 7:44 AM on March 21, 2017 [68 favorites]
"Americanese" means "it's ok to tell slanderous lies about black people and liberals, but it should be a capital offense to say true but unflattering things about people like me"? I'm sure there's a name for that, but it's not "Americanese."
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:47 AM on March 21, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:47 AM on March 21, 2017 [25 favorites]
Michael Gerson, WaPo: The American presidency is shrinking before the world’s eyes
Foreigners see a Darwinian, nationalist framework for American foreign policy; a diminished commitment to global engagement; a brewing scandal that could distract and cripple the administration; and a president who often conducts his affairs with peevish ignorance.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:49 AM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Some will look at this spectacle and live in fear; others may see a golden opportunity.
And anyway, the dynamite in Trump's tweet wasn't the "tapp," literal or figural; it was that President Obama himself ordered it.
posted by notyou at 7:50 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by notyou at 7:50 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Well, to the degree that our country was founded with racism baked into its politics and culture, it's sadly more Americanese than many of us would like.
Many of us are trying to change that to become more enlightened as a nation, but nevertheless, ours is not a very Originalist view.
posted by darkstar at 7:50 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Many of us are trying to change that to become more enlightened as a nation, but nevertheless, ours is not a very Originalist view.
posted by darkstar at 7:50 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
My grandma passed away from Alzheimer's a few years ago, I helped my mom and Grandpa get her onto Medicaid, re configuring their assets and spending down a bunch of Grandpa's savings to get below the tiny threshold. Her costs were $4,000/day before Medicaid took over towards the end. No one can afford full-time nursing home care. No one.
50% of seniors spend time in a nursing home before they die. Median length of stay in a nursing home bed is ~2.4 years. Nursing homes run ~80-100k per year. That'll impoverish most families' savings after a few years.
With those costs, Medicaid planning (by either long term care insurance or trust planning) has become an essential part of complete estate planning these days. You get rid of Medicaid for nursing home care and you will kill tens of thousands of seniors. If there's any sign that the Republican Party has lost itself to mindless ideology, it's that they're apparently trying to kill their most consistent voting base.
If AARP has anywhere the leverage they're supposed to have, this bill is DOA. We'll see.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:51 AM on March 21, 2017 [54 favorites]
50% of seniors spend time in a nursing home before they die. Median length of stay in a nursing home bed is ~2.4 years. Nursing homes run ~80-100k per year. That'll impoverish most families' savings after a few years.
With those costs, Medicaid planning (by either long term care insurance or trust planning) has become an essential part of complete estate planning these days. You get rid of Medicaid for nursing home care and you will kill tens of thousands of seniors. If there's any sign that the Republican Party has lost itself to mindless ideology, it's that they're apparently trying to kill their most consistent voting base.
If AARP has anywhere the leverage they're supposed to have, this bill is DOA. We'll see.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:51 AM on March 21, 2017 [54 favorites]
calling for it as being justified, and calling for it at the earliest justified moment
Sure, maybe. But unless you're going to spill the tea, you can't possibly expect [especially hostile] people to take you seriously.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:51 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sure, maybe. But unless you're going to spill the tea, you can't possibly expect [especially hostile] people to take you seriously.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:51 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Richard Cohen, WaPo: Bannon’s origin story doesn’t add up
At some point in the Steve Bannon story I started wondering: If his father got fleeced, if “nobody [was] held accountable,” how can the remedy be less regulation? If Wall Street picked his old man’s pocket, why has President Trump appointed tycoon after tycoon who think the fairest tax is none at all and, in some cases, got immensely rich by collapsing companies and squeezing employees?posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:57 AM on March 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
Where is the Trump appointee who cares about Bannon’s father? Why don’t they go down the halls of the White House to reassure Bannon and tell him it will never happen again? Why don’t they name an executive action after his father: The Martin Bannon, You Will Never Lose Your Nest Egg Act of 2017? The government will see to it.
I'm seriously afraid for the future of public schools in the USA. Here in Florida, my daughter teaches 4th grade in a rural county in a school that is 99% eligible for free lunch and is also 90% African American students with really rough home lives. Because the property tax base in the county is so low and they only have one large company that (in theory) helps fund public services, she makes less than 40K a year and the school board can't afford to subsidize employee health insurance premiums. She can't afford the full premium of her employer sponsored health care and since it's technically offered, she doesn't get any subsidy for the ACA. So, as well as providing pencils, erasers, copy paper, crayons, treats for rewards she has to pay for her own health insurance. And the new state budget just took 1.5 million dollars away from their funding for next year.
Then you consider that there's a bill in the state senate to allow teachers to include creationism and the bible in their science classes, and frankly we might as well have religious schools taught by unpaid clergy like the Catholic school I went to. My husband and I are considering stockpiling science and history books now just in case we need them for our son through high school. The separation between church and state has been eroded gradually and now the right is giving it the final blows to just eliminate it totally. They really do want us to go back to education being handled by churches and parents while finagling it to make money for charter school companies.
posted by hollygoheavy at 7:59 AM on March 21, 2017 [44 favorites]
Then you consider that there's a bill in the state senate to allow teachers to include creationism and the bible in their science classes, and frankly we might as well have religious schools taught by unpaid clergy like the Catholic school I went to. My husband and I are considering stockpiling science and history books now just in case we need them for our son through high school. The separation between church and state has been eroded gradually and now the right is giving it the final blows to just eliminate it totally. They really do want us to go back to education being handled by churches and parents while finagling it to make money for charter school companies.
posted by hollygoheavy at 7:59 AM on March 21, 2017 [44 favorites]
because surely he is obligated to understand this stuff as a function of his office?
Nope. In fact, his base elected him expressly because he doesn't understand and doesn't want to understand this stuff.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:04 AM on March 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
Nope. In fact, his base elected him expressly because he doesn't understand and doesn't want to understand this stuff.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:04 AM on March 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
Motion to have Samuel Jackson at future press briefings to clarify what language is being spoken.
posted by jeribus at 8:06 AM on March 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by jeribus at 8:06 AM on March 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
Nope. In fact, his base elected him expressly because he doesn't understand and doesn't want to understand this stuff.
the american people don't trust experts anymore, so they elected the closest thing to an all-consuming void they could find
posted by murphy slaw at 8:06 AM on March 21, 2017 [31 favorites]
the american people don't trust experts anymore, so they elected the closest thing to an all-consuming void they could find
posted by murphy slaw at 8:06 AM on March 21, 2017 [31 favorites]
It's been noted that, during his hearing, Gorsuch keeps on using "Democrat" instead of the proper "Democratic" in reference to the party (including referring to a "Democrat President"). It may seem like nothing, but his insistence on using it is a dogwhistle to conservative groups and the far-right wingnut base that gets their news exclusively from talk radio. Remember that when he claims he's not political or that he won't be supporting the most evil parts of the conservative agenda.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:14 AM on March 21, 2017 [92 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 8:14 AM on March 21, 2017 [92 favorites]
this showed up on my twitter timeline and i am like "maybe don't declare overwhelming demand to delay gorsuch based on a handful of tweets before any sitting congressperson has made such a demand"
posted by murphy slaw at 8:17 AM on March 21, 2017
posted by murphy slaw at 8:17 AM on March 21, 2017
has any democrat ever trolled the right wing by referring to them as the Republic party in the media?
posted by murphy slaw at 8:18 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 8:18 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Bannon’s origin story doesn’t add up
No, it adds up perfectly, once you stop assuming he's rational. He's a racist, xenophobic, anti-semitic blob more concerned about white supremacy than he is of financial regulation. When Wall Streets fucks things up, regular people would think "well, maybe we should regulate banking and the finance industry so something like this never happens again and people who abuse the system endangering the lives of millions of people are properly prosecuted, their assets stripped and distributed to victims, and sent to jail".
What did Bannon see? JEEEEEEWS!
posted by lmfsilva at 8:18 AM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
No, it adds up perfectly, once you stop assuming he's rational. He's a racist, xenophobic, anti-semitic blob more concerned about white supremacy than he is of financial regulation. When Wall Streets fucks things up, regular people would think "well, maybe we should regulate banking and the finance industry so something like this never happens again and people who abuse the system endangering the lives of millions of people are properly prosecuted, their assets stripped and distributed to victims, and sent to jail".
What did Bannon see? JEEEEEEWS!
posted by lmfsilva at 8:18 AM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
What did Bannon see? JEEEEEEWS!
but apparently he's fine Steve Mnuchin, a Jewish financier, sitting on the same cabinet with him?
truly Bannon's ideology is too nuanced to capture in mere words, it can only be expressed in interpretive dance by using capoeira to beat up a muslim
posted by murphy slaw at 8:22 AM on March 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
but apparently he's fine Steve Mnuchin, a Jewish financier, sitting on the same cabinet with him?
truly Bannon's ideology is too nuanced to capture in mere words, it can only be expressed in interpretive dance by using capoeira to beat up a muslim
posted by murphy slaw at 8:22 AM on March 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
I also don't think Bannon's primary concern is conservative economic principles or anything like that. That's establishment conservatism, which he's only currently tolerating because he has to. The "it" he wants to burn down encompasses both government and Wall St. (let's be real, one can't exist without the other). He wants to destroy everything. The fact that Trump has installed the very people who screwed his dad into positions of power is just the short game. Bannon has his eyes on the long game: total destruction of our society from the inside out. Radicalization of aggrieved whites can only be accelerated if they are driven to penury by finance. He's fine with that.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:22 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:22 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
that he's the "mean parent"
jesus wow. all that stuff about people with no shame from earlier, that all applies to his supporters too. Used to be, the pure insult of implying that somebody supported a candidate because they wanted a big strong daddy to tell them what to do was exactly that, an insult. Even back in the GWB days, people tried to sell their enthusiasm for him more as wanting him to be their bro than wanting him to give them a spanking. but I guess self-infantilizing misogyny, like treason, is no longer something to be ashamed of.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:23 AM on March 21, 2017 [24 favorites]
jesus wow. all that stuff about people with no shame from earlier, that all applies to his supporters too. Used to be, the pure insult of implying that somebody supported a candidate because they wanted a big strong daddy to tell them what to do was exactly that, an insult. Even back in the GWB days, people tried to sell their enthusiasm for him more as wanting him to be their bro than wanting him to give them a spanking. but I guess self-infantilizing misogyny, like treason, is no longer something to be ashamed of.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:23 AM on March 21, 2017 [24 favorites]
The thing is, with the election of Trump we're all accelerationists now whether we like it or not. And, for the record, I don't like it at all.
But right now it's all we have.
The Democrats are clearly not willing, or perhaps even able, to engage in real obstruction of Trump, our only hope for defeating the AHCA therefore is infighting between the Republican factions. If we can beat it by firing up the Tea Bagger faction through their hate of anything that looks like an "entitlement" I would argue that's a valid tactic.
Stopping the AHCA is a top priority right now, for reasons melissasaurus mentioned above. If they can pass it, they've figured out a way to forge their factions into a unity. If they can't then their abilities to move forward are hurt for more than just this. So let's do literally everything we can, up to and including phoning up Republican reps and pretending to be Tea Baggers who hate the AHCA because it's Obamacare Lite and we demand a real conservative plan.
Accelerationism sucks massively, it causes harm to the vulnerable, it pushes back progressive work by years if not decades, and it doesn't have any history of working. But as of 11/9 it became our only option.
It isn't as if we can just annul the Trump presidency, he's here for 4 years, he's going to appoint Gorsuch (and if we're very unlucky more) to the Supreme Court, and he's going to do a lot of harm. If we can focus that harm on his voters, if we can make that harm visible enough then maybe we can get a win in 2018 and again in 2020.
There are no good options, so viva accelerationism!
posted by sotonohito at 8:27 AM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
But right now it's all we have.
The Democrats are clearly not willing, or perhaps even able, to engage in real obstruction of Trump, our only hope for defeating the AHCA therefore is infighting between the Republican factions. If we can beat it by firing up the Tea Bagger faction through their hate of anything that looks like an "entitlement" I would argue that's a valid tactic.
Stopping the AHCA is a top priority right now, for reasons melissasaurus mentioned above. If they can pass it, they've figured out a way to forge their factions into a unity. If they can't then their abilities to move forward are hurt for more than just this. So let's do literally everything we can, up to and including phoning up Republican reps and pretending to be Tea Baggers who hate the AHCA because it's Obamacare Lite and we demand a real conservative plan.
Accelerationism sucks massively, it causes harm to the vulnerable, it pushes back progressive work by years if not decades, and it doesn't have any history of working. But as of 11/9 it became our only option.
It isn't as if we can just annul the Trump presidency, he's here for 4 years, he's going to appoint Gorsuch (and if we're very unlucky more) to the Supreme Court, and he's going to do a lot of harm. If we can focus that harm on his voters, if we can make that harm visible enough then maybe we can get a win in 2018 and again in 2020.
There are no good options, so viva accelerationism!
posted by sotonohito at 8:27 AM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump, he said, was speaking “Americanese” when he tweeted that Obama had orchestrated a “Nixon/Watergate” plot against him. The president’s supporters knew what he meant, but Washington insiders didn’t and blew it out of proportion.
I thought "separated by a common language" applied to the UK/US use of English, now it's also apparently a USA/MAGA issue too.
posted by nubs at 8:32 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
I thought "separated by a common language" applied to the UK/US use of English, now it's also apparently a USA/MAGA issue too.
posted by nubs at 8:32 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think "lack of shame" is the real story here. Republicans (even before Trump, but especially now) feel free to flaunt their hateful, messed-up, craven, BDSM-but-without-a-safeword-or-consent beliefs before the world, and they're high on the feeling of finally letting all that rot out and making us smell it, too. Of rolling in the shit and walking around covered in it, grinning.
So now what? What do you do with people who have no shame but are a danger to others as well as themselves?
This feeling of not having a lever, of looking for an "off"switch that is missing, has been haunting me for a while. Because I don't want to believe "force" is the only thing that will get our country back. I still have hope for the mechanisms of democracy, i.e., voting and the courts, but not as much as I would like to have.
posted by emjaybee at 8:33 AM on March 21, 2017 [17 favorites]
So now what? What do you do with people who have no shame but are a danger to others as well as themselves?
This feeling of not having a lever, of looking for an "off"switch that is missing, has been haunting me for a while. Because I don't want to believe "force" is the only thing that will get our country back. I still have hope for the mechanisms of democracy, i.e., voting and the courts, but not as much as I would like to have.
posted by emjaybee at 8:33 AM on March 21, 2017 [17 favorites]
The Democrats are clearly not willing, or perhaps even able, to engage in real obstruction of Trump,
Well, I'm calling my senators now to express my belief that there is NO POINT in working with the GOP as-is, and my expectation is that they should be voting against every single thing.
Schumer, Done... ( I think they have Russian violin music-on-hold going in the queue! )
Gillibrand, Done... ( Phones are busy.. )
posted by mikelieman at 8:36 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well, I'm calling my senators now to express my belief that there is NO POINT in working with the GOP as-is, and my expectation is that they should be voting against every single thing.
Schumer, Done... ( I think they have Russian violin music-on-hold going in the queue! )
Gillibrand, Done... ( Phones are busy.. )
posted by mikelieman at 8:36 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Lord was just trying the latest iteration of BS about taking him literally vs. seriously. There's nothing there, no actual coherent thought, just pure cultish Trumpism.
When Trump says something a given Trumpite likes, he's 100% serious, 100% literal, and he means every single word of it.
When Trump says something that is either sufficiently proven to be a lie that even they can't pretend it was truth, or that they disagree with, then Trump is speaking figuratively, or means something else, and only a very stupid person or a liberal (but they repeat themselves) would be dumb enough to think he really meant it.
Lord is just trying to package that into some bullshit Real 'Merca vs the Liberal Elites because that's what he gets paid to do.
posted by sotonohito at 8:37 AM on March 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
When Trump says something a given Trumpite likes, he's 100% serious, 100% literal, and he means every single word of it.
When Trump says something that is either sufficiently proven to be a lie that even they can't pretend it was truth, or that they disagree with, then Trump is speaking figuratively, or means something else, and only a very stupid person or a liberal (but they repeat themselves) would be dumb enough to think he really meant it.
Lord is just trying to package that into some bullshit Real 'Merca vs the Liberal Elites because that's what he gets paid to do.
posted by sotonohito at 8:37 AM on March 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
Its like the verbal version of Emperor's New Clothes!
Real Americans understand Trump perfectly, they effortlessly grasp which things he says he means literally and which things he says that are merely figurative, or to be ignored, or rhetorical florishes. This demonstrates their virtue and their deep love of America.
Coastal latte sipping Liberal Elite not even slightly real Americans are incapable of understanding the pure distilled essence of America that is Donald Trump's voice, so they are incapable of separating his rhetorical devices or metaphors from what he clearly intends to be taken literally. This is proof of their moral failing and their evil Ivory Tower over educated stupidity.
posted by sotonohito at 8:41 AM on March 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
Real Americans understand Trump perfectly, they effortlessly grasp which things he says he means literally and which things he says that are merely figurative, or to be ignored, or rhetorical florishes. This demonstrates their virtue and their deep love of America.
Coastal latte sipping Liberal Elite not even slightly real Americans are incapable of understanding the pure distilled essence of America that is Donald Trump's voice, so they are incapable of separating his rhetorical devices or metaphors from what he clearly intends to be taken literally. This is proof of their moral failing and their evil Ivory Tower over educated stupidity.
posted by sotonohito at 8:41 AM on March 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
If a President with a 37% approval rating threatened to "come after" me if I didn't vote his way, I'd be pretty tempted to say "Bring it."
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:44 AM on March 21, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:44 AM on March 21, 2017 [36 favorites]
Accelerationism sucks massively, it causes harm to the vulnerable, it pushes back progressive work by years if not decades, and it doesn't have any history of working. But as of 11/9 it became our only option.
Accelerationism not our only option. It's a lazy way of giving up.
posted by Talez at 8:44 AM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
Accelerationism not our only option. It's a lazy way of giving up.
posted by Talez at 8:44 AM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick: US forbids any device larger than cellphone on airlines from 13 countries. (The Guardian)
That headline is a bit misleading. NPR's is better, possibly due to additional information now being available: U.S. Restricts Electronic Devices On Flights From 8 Muslim Countries
Is anyone keeping track of all the countries that Trump is working to alienate? I've seen some from the first few weeks of his administration. And maybe there needs to be some color-coded scale to indicate if he's been systematically antagonizing or straight up attacking the country, like Yemen, to sending mixed messages, as with Germany.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:44 AM on March 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
That headline is a bit misleading. NPR's is better, possibly due to additional information now being available: U.S. Restricts Electronic Devices On Flights From 8 Muslim Countries
Airline passengers coming to the U.S. on direct flights from eight majority-Muslim nations must now place most electronic devices, including laptops, tablets and cameras, in checked baggage under stepped-up security measures, Trump administration officials said.And that's why they call it Security Theater.
Passengers can still carry smartphones into the plane's cabin, but nothing larger, the officials added.
The measures took effect Tuesday morning and cover about 50 incoming flights a day from the eight countries — Jordan, Egypt, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Morocco, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates.
All are traditional U.S. allies and none is among the six majority-Muslim nations on President Trump's controversial executive order that seeks to temporarily suspend immigration.The president issued a revised executive order on March 6, and this one, like the original in January, has been halted by the courts.
The six countries cited in Trump's order all have fraught relations with the U.S., and several are plagued by unrest or civil war, including Syria, Libya and Yemen.
In contrast, the countries on the new airline list are mostly stable, have generally good relations with the U.S. and include four wealthy states in the Gulf.
...
U.S. authorities have expressed concerns in the past that explosives could be placed inside electronic devices.
However, the administration officials declined to say specifically how this move would enhance security since it doesn't ban electronic items currently permitted on planes, it just requires that most be placed in checked bags.
Is anyone keeping track of all the countries that Trump is working to alienate? I've seen some from the first few weeks of his administration. And maybe there needs to be some color-coded scale to indicate if he's been systematically antagonizing or straight up attacking the country, like Yemen, to sending mixed messages, as with Germany.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:44 AM on March 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
> The thing is, with the election of Trump we're all accelerationists now whether we like it or not.
Speak for yourself.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:45 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Speak for yourself.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:45 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.”
― Elie Wiesel, Nobel acceptance speech
posted by Sophie1 at 8:49 AM on March 21, 2017 [60 favorites]
― Elie Wiesel, Nobel acceptance speech
posted by Sophie1 at 8:49 AM on March 21, 2017 [60 favorites]
It's been noted that, during his hearing, Gorsuch keeps on using 'Democrat' instead of the proper 'Democratic' in reference to the party (including referring to a 'Democrat President').
Democrat Party is an epithet for the Democratic Party of the United States. The term has been used in negative or hostile fashion by conservative commentators and members of the Republican Party in party platforms, partisan speeches and press releases since at least 1940.The "ic" Factor:
There’s no great mystery about the motives behind this deliberate misnaming. “Democrat Party” is a slur, or intended to be—a handy way to express contempt. Aesthetic judgments are subjective, of course, but “Democrat Party” is jarring verging on ugly. It fairly screams “rat.” At a slightly higher level of sophistication, it’s an attempt to deny the enemy the positive connotations of its chosen appellation.Chris Matthews:
They call themselves the Democratic Party. Let’s just call people what they call themselves and stop the Mickey Mouse here.posted by kirkaracha at 8:50 AM on March 21, 2017 [35 favorites]
Jordan, Egypt, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Morocco, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates.
This is so astonishingly stupid. All you've done is inconvenience and irritate all the business people in the energy sector (ostensible allies). That includes the private jet folks, because unless you've got a G6, you're not getting to Saudi without stopping, and lots of folks will just fly commercial to avoid stopping to refuel.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:51 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
This is so astonishingly stupid. All you've done is inconvenience and irritate all the business people in the energy sector (ostensible allies). That includes the private jet folks, because unless you've got a G6, you're not getting to Saudi without stopping, and lots of folks will just fly commercial to avoid stopping to refuel.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:51 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
This spring, the Trump International Hotel in Washington, D.C., will host a three-day event co-hosted by a business group. The group's chair founded the company that paid President Trump's former national security adviser, Michael Flynn, for lobbying work that may have benefited the Turkish government. (NPR, March 21, 2017)
This mashup of money involving Turks, Flynn and Trump has concerned ethics experts who worry about a "pay-to-play" atmosphere in Washington.
And we're back to Trump's mirror. Remember the heady days of 2016, when people were worried about Pay to Play with the Clinton foundation? Ohohoho, those were fun times.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:51 AM on March 21, 2017 [37 favorites]
This mashup of money involving Turks, Flynn and Trump has concerned ethics experts who worry about a "pay-to-play" atmosphere in Washington.
And we're back to Trump's mirror. Remember the heady days of 2016, when people were worried about Pay to Play with the Clinton foundation? Ohohoho, those were fun times.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:51 AM on March 21, 2017 [37 favorites]
U.S. authorities have expressed concerns in the past that explosives could be placed inside electronic devices.
True, in the case of Samsung.
posted by porn in the woods at 8:52 AM on March 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
True, in the case of Samsung.
posted by porn in the woods at 8:52 AM on March 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
Looks like Gorsuch "misstated" (I'm going to with "lied about") some of the basic underpinnings of Citizens United and repeated Roberts' nonsense propaganda about Shelby and the VRA. It's almost as if reading the tea leaves on this turned out to be right. Shocking, I know.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:53 AM on March 21, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 8:53 AM on March 21, 2017 [23 favorites]
"It's been noted that, during his hearing, Gorsuch keeps on using 'Democrat' instead of the proper 'Democratic' in reference to the party (including referring to a 'Democrat President').
Oh, we can just pick the name we call the other side? In that case I look forward to voting against the Hateful Shitgibbon Party in the upcoming elections.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:53 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh, we can just pick the name we call the other side? In that case I look forward to voting against the Hateful Shitgibbon Party in the upcoming elections.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:53 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
The thing is, with the election of Trump we're all accelerationists now whether we like it or not.
I remain confused by the use of "accelerationism" to refer to "hoping that the opposing political party does not achieve their goals because of infighting." I have also seen it refer to "actively making the conditions of existence worse in order to bring about revolution."
The former seems to be a fairly normal political tactic while the later is illogical to the point that there aren't very many people who actually believe it.
Accelerationism has to do with increasing the deterritorializing effects of capitalism (while trying to prevent fascistic reterritorialization) in order to bring about it's downfall. It is specifically related to capitalism, not political parties or social movements. It is a sophisticated and cogent argument that does not deserve it's current pejorative connotation.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 8:56 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
I remain confused by the use of "accelerationism" to refer to "hoping that the opposing political party does not achieve their goals because of infighting." I have also seen it refer to "actively making the conditions of existence worse in order to bring about revolution."
The former seems to be a fairly normal political tactic while the later is illogical to the point that there aren't very many people who actually believe it.
Accelerationism has to do with increasing the deterritorializing effects of capitalism (while trying to prevent fascistic reterritorialization) in order to bring about it's downfall. It is specifically related to capitalism, not political parties or social movements. It is a sophisticated and cogent argument that does not deserve it's current pejorative connotation.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 8:56 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
has any democrat ever trolled the right wing by referring to them as the Republic party in the media?
Yes, it's been done...and as I recall, even from the floor of the House. But it doesn't gain any traction because as momentarily enjoyable as it might be to sink to the schoolyard name-calling, all it really does is signify that the Republicans managed to get under your skin. So it ends up being a win for them in the end.
It's much more effective (I think) to just speak those brutal truths about Republicans that they don't want to hear. E.g.: their health care plan is "don't get sick and if you do, die quickly", which shocks the conscience so much not because of how mean it was, but of how true it was.
Or: "Republicans are only pro-life until you're born...after that, you're on your own (bootstraps)."
Or: "Republicans are only concerned about the deficit when Democrats are in charge."
Or: "If you're a Republican, it doesn't mean you're a racist, but if you're a racist, you're most likely a Republican."
Or: "The economy and job creation does far better under Democratic Presidents than under Republican ones."
Or: "The election of Trump means that millions of evangelical Christians seem perfectly happy with choosing a leader who has no moral compass if it means that he will sign the bills they want."
Or: "If Donald Trump had simply invested his inheritance in index stock funds, he would be much wealthier now than he currently is, so his business acumen is demonstrably less than average."
There are dozens more, but you get the drift.
posted by darkstar at 8:57 AM on March 21, 2017 [51 favorites]
Yes, it's been done...and as I recall, even from the floor of the House. But it doesn't gain any traction because as momentarily enjoyable as it might be to sink to the schoolyard name-calling, all it really does is signify that the Republicans managed to get under your skin. So it ends up being a win for them in the end.
It's much more effective (I think) to just speak those brutal truths about Republicans that they don't want to hear. E.g.: their health care plan is "don't get sick and if you do, die quickly", which shocks the conscience so much not because of how mean it was, but of how true it was.
Or: "Republicans are only pro-life until you're born...after that, you're on your own (bootstraps)."
Or: "Republicans are only concerned about the deficit when Democrats are in charge."
Or: "If you're a Republican, it doesn't mean you're a racist, but if you're a racist, you're most likely a Republican."
Or: "The economy and job creation does far better under Democratic Presidents than under Republican ones."
Or: "The election of Trump means that millions of evangelical Christians seem perfectly happy with choosing a leader who has no moral compass if it means that he will sign the bills they want."
Or: "If Donald Trump had simply invested his inheritance in index stock funds, he would be much wealthier now than he currently is, so his business acumen is demonstrably less than average."
There are dozens more, but you get the drift.
posted by darkstar at 8:57 AM on March 21, 2017 [51 favorites]
anem0ne, that's massively unhelpful. There's no number 4 there, "what the fuck you should do now." Flee the country? Give up in fear? Become a revolutionary and risk imprisonment/death to you and yours and also probably cause deaths of innocents caught in crossfire, i.e. bloody civil war?
If our institutions cannot be made to save us by our political will (I'm not talking about passively waiting for them to do so), then there is nothing left to do. I haven't given up that much yet. Possibly foolishly, but I don't think of fleeing as any but the most desperate option, I can't live with giving up, and I'm not normally a violent person.
posted by emjaybee at 8:59 AM on March 21, 2017
If our institutions cannot be made to save us by our political will (I'm not talking about passively waiting for them to do so), then there is nothing left to do. I haven't given up that much yet. Possibly foolishly, but I don't think of fleeing as any but the most desperate option, I can't live with giving up, and I'm not normally a violent person.
posted by emjaybee at 8:59 AM on March 21, 2017
In more horrifying Gorsuch news, apparently his take on the Muslim ban is similar to that of a logically-flawed rebuttal to the 9th Court's decision to strike it down. "Worse than Scalia" is now pretty much guaranteed across the board.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:05 AM on March 21, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 9:05 AM on March 21, 2017 [30 favorites]
has any democrat ever trolled the right wing by referring to them as the Republic party in the media?
"Rethuglican" used to have a rather annoying cachet in anti-Bush circles.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:06 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
"Rethuglican" used to have a rather annoying cachet in anti-Bush circles.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:06 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
At the Gorsuch hearing: Sen. Graham "just letting everyone know" that he's introducing 20-week abortion ban based on fetal pain.
So.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:09 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
So.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:09 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
4. Be outraged.
5. Don't make compromises.
6. Remember the future.
Still...not super helpful.
And that has me thinking: do we have any examples of successful resistance to fascism?
posted by schadenfrau at 9:10 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
WWII?
posted by INFJ at 9:11 AM on March 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by INFJ at 9:11 AM on March 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
"Rethuglican" used to have a rather annoying cachet in anti-Bush circles.
It's my go-to whenever I want to sound like the unmoderated comment section of my local news site.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:12 AM on March 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
It's my go-to whenever I want to sound like the unmoderated comment section of my local news site.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:12 AM on March 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
Republican Sen, Graham uses SCOTUS hearing to warn Trump: "If you start waterboarding people, you may get impeached."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:12 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:12 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
And that has me thinking: do we have any examples of successful resistance to fascism?
That didn't involve a war?
I still think we're early enough in this process that institutions might save us. I'm not counting on it, but I'm not counting them out yet, either.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:13 AM on March 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
That didn't involve a war?
I still think we're early enough in this process that institutions might save us. I'm not counting on it, but I'm not counting them out yet, either.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:13 AM on March 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
zachlipton: Tillerson plans to skip NATO meeting, visit Russia in April
Why? Just, why? After all of those things that happened just on flipping Monday, what would possibly possess these people to adopt a plan in which we snub NATO allies and meet with Russia? Did they learn nothing? Of course not. They have no sense, no shame. They don't care.
While it looks bad on the surface and for general optics, his replacement might actually be a capable individual. From NPR:
posted by filthy light thief at 9:13 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Why? Just, why? After all of those things that happened just on flipping Monday, what would possibly possess these people to adopt a plan in which we snub NATO allies and meet with Russia? Did they learn nothing? Of course not. They have no sense, no shame. They don't care.
While it looks bad on the surface and for general optics, his replacement might actually be a capable individual. From NPR:
Standing in for his boss at the first session of NATO diplomats in Tillerson's tenure will be Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Tom Shannon, NPR's Michele Kelemen reports, citing confirmation by a State Department spokesperson.Thomas A. Shannon, Jr. was appointed to this position on February 21, 2016, and his official bio states that he is a Career Ambassador in the Senior Foreign Service of the United States. Of course, he may be doubly powerless, as Kushner is something of a "shadow" Sec of State, and the "Trump manifesto" budget cuts the State department, so even though Shannon was retained with other Obama appointees, his office doesn't have the same standing as it did under Obama.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:13 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Republican Sen, Graham uses SCOTUS hearing to warn Trump: "If you start waterboarding people, you may get impeached."
So there's the line? Where can I volunteer?
posted by Talez at 9:17 AM on March 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
So there's the line? Where can I volunteer?
posted by Talez at 9:17 AM on March 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
roomthreeseventeen: Republican Sen, Graham uses SCOTUS hearing to warn Trump: "If you start waterboarding people, you may get impeached."
Graham continued, to note "you know, maybe not. If they're really bad dudes, we'll allow that." [/FAKE, but kind of implied when he said "you may get impeached"]
posted by filthy light thief at 9:18 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Graham continued, to note "you know, maybe not. If they're really bad dudes, we'll allow that." [/FAKE, but kind of implied when he said "you may get impeached"]
posted by filthy light thief at 9:18 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
witchen: I don't think private prisons and wall-construction entities are powerful enough against the entire rest of the economy.
Well, when he gets accolades for saving a few thousand jobs at a significant cost to states, the number doesn't matter as much as the general action.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:22 AM on March 21, 2017
Well, when he gets accolades for saving a few thousand jobs at a significant cost to states, the number doesn't matter as much as the general action.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:22 AM on March 21, 2017
Paul Manafort faces fresh accusations in Ukraine after document find
posted by mumimor at 9:22 AM on March 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 9:22 AM on March 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
I was trying to figure out why Eric Trump looked so familiar and it came to me
posted by porn in the woods at 9:26 AM on March 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by porn in the woods at 9:26 AM on March 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
Some insulting subversion of the Republican party's name and image:
- Republicants
- Republicons
- Groupies of Putin
- Gaggle of Putzes
- DixieRATs
- Heirs of Jefferson Davis
- Betrayers of Lincoln's Legacy
...The group of fools has been fucking with my BP for my entire adult life. If my hair isn't completely white by 2020 or 2024, I'll be pleasantly surprised.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:27 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
- Republicants
- Republicons
- Groupies of Putin
- Gaggle of Putzes
- DixieRATs
- Heirs of Jefferson Davis
- Betrayers of Lincoln's Legacy
...The group of fools has been fucking with my BP for my entire adult life. If my hair isn't completely white by 2020 or 2024, I'll be pleasantly surprised.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:27 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
that's massively unhelpful. There's no number 4 there, "what the fuck you should do now." Flee the country? Give up in fear? Become a revolutionary and risk imprisonment/death to you and yours and also probably cause deaths of innocents caught in crossfire, i.e. bloody civil war?
Masha Gessen is a terrifying Cassandra, but she's absolutely right. Our institutions will not save us if we allow them to plod along. What has worked is pushing our institutions. Holding them accountable. Resisting. Whether that is making our representatives run and hide like the little possums they are or making our press share the opinions of people like Sarah Kendzior and Masha Gessen who hold a large and magnifying mirror up in front of them. What Masha Gessen is proposing is that we fight. We cannot become soft and expect our institutions to work for us rather than themselves without us driving them from every angle.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:32 AM on March 21, 2017 [25 favorites]
Masha Gessen is a terrifying Cassandra, but she's absolutely right. Our institutions will not save us if we allow them to plod along. What has worked is pushing our institutions. Holding them accountable. Resisting. Whether that is making our representatives run and hide like the little possums they are or making our press share the opinions of people like Sarah Kendzior and Masha Gessen who hold a large and magnifying mirror up in front of them. What Masha Gessen is proposing is that we fight. We cannot become soft and expect our institutions to work for us rather than themselves without us driving them from every angle.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:32 AM on March 21, 2017 [25 favorites]
And that has me thinking: do we have any examples of successful resistance to fascism?
That didn't involve a war?
As far as I can find, only 3 post-WW2 fascist movements have come to legitimate power:
Iran (overthrown by the Iranian revolution, backed by the US)
Panama (overthrown repeatedly by the US in favor of a different dictator)
The Philippines (20 year dictatorship backed by the US, eventually ending in democratic revolution) (maybe twice, depending on how you want to call Duerte)
So no, not really. The Philippines example is probably the only comparable post-war example of internal overthrow of fascism/kleptocracy. And that only happened because of the military, and easily could've turned into a full blown civil war.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:33 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
That didn't involve a war?
As far as I can find, only 3 post-WW2 fascist movements have come to legitimate power:
Iran (overthrown by the Iranian revolution, backed by the US)
Panama (overthrown repeatedly by the US in favor of a different dictator)
The Philippines (20 year dictatorship backed by the US, eventually ending in democratic revolution) (maybe twice, depending on how you want to call Duerte)
So no, not really. The Philippines example is probably the only comparable post-war example of internal overthrow of fascism/kleptocracy. And that only happened because of the military, and easily could've turned into a full blown civil war.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:33 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
- Republicants
- Republicons
- Groupies of Putin
- Gaggle of Putzes
- DixieRATs
- Heirs of Jefferson Davis
- Betrayers of Lincoln's Legacy
Reputincans?
posted by leotrotsky at 9:40 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
- Republicons
- Groupies of Putin
- Gaggle of Putzes
- DixieRATs
- Heirs of Jefferson Davis
- Betrayers of Lincoln's Legacy
Reputincans?
posted by leotrotsky at 9:40 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Rasputlicans?
posted by leotrotsky at 9:40 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 9:40 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
And that has me thinking: do we have any examples of successful resistance to fascism?
That didn't involve a war?
I still think we're early enough in this process that institutions might save us. I'm not counting on it, but I'm not counting them out yet, either.
The recent Dutch election?
There are fascists here, but they haven't consolidated power. They are largely incompetent, and there is massive resistance to them. Elections, courts, protests, these things still matter and are still effective.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:41 AM on March 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
That didn't involve a war?
I still think we're early enough in this process that institutions might save us. I'm not counting on it, but I'm not counting them out yet, either.
The recent Dutch election?
There are fascists here, but they haven't consolidated power. They are largely incompetent, and there is massive resistance to them. Elections, courts, protests, these things still matter and are still effective.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:41 AM on March 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
(The UK's just got on board the in-flight gadget ban, so whatever it is, it's not just Trump tweaking tails.)
posted by Devonian at 9:43 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Devonian at 9:43 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
has any democrat ever trolled the right wing by referring to them as the Republic party in the media?
"Rethuglican" used to have a rather annoying cachet in anti-Bush circles.
I can't stand when Republicans say "Obummer" or "Democraps" or any number of childish insults and it's no better coming from the other side. I just don't like anything that dumbs the political discourse down further than it already is (see also political bumper stickers).
posted by downtohisturtles at 9:43 AM on March 21, 2017 [52 favorites]
"Rethuglican" used to have a rather annoying cachet in anti-Bush circles.
I can't stand when Republicans say "Obummer" or "Democraps" or any number of childish insults and it's no better coming from the other side. I just don't like anything that dumbs the political discourse down further than it already is (see also political bumper stickers).
posted by downtohisturtles at 9:43 AM on March 21, 2017 [52 favorites]
I still have hope for the mechanisms of democracy, i.e., voting and the courts, but not as much as I would like to have.
And this is exactly what Putin wanted. And the awful part of it is, had Hillary Clinton won, Trump's voters would now be losing faith in democracy. And maybe talking about violent revolution.
We are so polarized. We trust each other so little. That's the underlying problem that is putting our democracy in peril. That made it ripe for someone like Trump. Democracies can't work without trust. Without trust, people resort to bribes, threats, extortion, corruption, to get what they need from the system. Trust is the active ingredient.
But I'm not sure what we can do about it. Democrats have been doing their part, up to now, building bridges and adhering to norms and so on. But nothing we could would induce Republicans to give us any benefit of the doubt. It's not enough for just one party to continue to trust in the good faith of our fellow voters and institutions, if the other party doesn't.
I posted an FPP back in Feb. 2016 with the title "how a demagogic opportunist can exploit a divided country" which linked to this article.
But what we will do about Trump's voters and their paranoid distrust, if our institutions do save us this time, I don't know.
Another link I remember sharing last year -- looks like it was written a year ago today...
If we can’t make our republican system of government work, eventually the people will clamor for a leader who can sweep it all away. Many of them already do.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:45 AM on March 21, 2017 [47 favorites]
And this is exactly what Putin wanted. And the awful part of it is, had Hillary Clinton won, Trump's voters would now be losing faith in democracy. And maybe talking about violent revolution.
We are so polarized. We trust each other so little. That's the underlying problem that is putting our democracy in peril. That made it ripe for someone like Trump. Democracies can't work without trust. Without trust, people resort to bribes, threats, extortion, corruption, to get what they need from the system. Trust is the active ingredient.
But I'm not sure what we can do about it. Democrats have been doing their part, up to now, building bridges and adhering to norms and so on. But nothing we could would induce Republicans to give us any benefit of the doubt. It's not enough for just one party to continue to trust in the good faith of our fellow voters and institutions, if the other party doesn't.
I posted an FPP back in Feb. 2016 with the title "how a demagogic opportunist can exploit a divided country" which linked to this article.
Like any number of us raised in the late 20th century, I have spent my life perplexed about exactly how Hitler could have come to power in Germany. Watching Donald Trump’s rise, I now understand. Leave aside whether a direct comparison of Trump to Hitler is accurate. That is not my point. My point rather is about how a demagogic opportunist can exploit a divided country.I think at this moment there is still some hope for our institutions. Russia's did not save it, but they were infant institutions. Ours are older and stronger. But we must help strengthen them wherever we can. We must not "depart from the battlefield out of a sense of hopelessness."
...
[Hannah Arendt] described all those who thought that Hitler’s rise was a terrible thing but chose “internal exile,” or staying invisible and out of the way as their strategy for coping with the situation. They knew evil was evil, but they too facilitated it, by departing from the battlefield out of a sense of hopelessness.
...
Trump is rising by taking advantage of a divided country. The truth is that the vast majority of voting Americans think that Trump is unacceptable as a presidential candidate, but we are split by strong partisan ideologies and cannot coordinate a solution to stop him. Similarly, a significant part of voting Republicans think that Trump is unacceptable, but they too, thus far, have been unable to coordinate a solution. Trump is exploiting the fact that we cannot unite across our ideological divides.
But what we will do about Trump's voters and their paranoid distrust, if our institutions do save us this time, I don't know.
Another link I remember sharing last year -- looks like it was written a year ago today...
If we can’t make our republican system of government work, eventually the people will clamor for a leader who can sweep it all away. Many of them already do.
If the American Republic is going to survive, its mechanisms have to work. If they don’t work — if the system stays as clogged as it has been these last few years, and each cycle of attack-and-reprisal gums things up worse — then eventually someone will sweep it all away. Maybe not Trump, maybe not this year, but someone, someday sooner than you might think possible. That would be a tragedy of historic proportions, but crowds would cheer as it happened.So chilling to look back on these a year later...
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:45 AM on March 21, 2017 [47 favorites]
dumbs the political discourse down further than it already is
the only thing that could possibly do that at this point is politicians literally reaching into their underpants and flinging poop at each other
posted by murphy slaw at 9:45 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
the only thing that could possibly do that at this point is politicians literally reaching into their underpants and flinging poop at each other
posted by murphy slaw at 9:45 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Philippines example is probably the only comparable post-war example of internal overthrow of fascism/kleptocracy.
Spain and Portugal had successful transitions away from fascism toward democracy, but those regimes only ended when the dictator died. Still, the fact that the dictators weren't succeeded by other dictators still counts as a success in my book.
Brasil also successfully transitioned away from a military dictatorship (though not a nominally fascist one) by a decades-long process of democratisation.
Ultimately, I think the lesson to be learned is that fascists are really fucking hard to get rid of once they've cemented their power. So, don't let them cement their power. By, for instance, preventing them from appointing powerful allies who serve for life.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:47 AM on March 21, 2017 [37 favorites]
Spain and Portugal had successful transitions away from fascism toward democracy, but those regimes only ended when the dictator died. Still, the fact that the dictators weren't succeeded by other dictators still counts as a success in my book.
Brasil also successfully transitioned away from a military dictatorship (though not a nominally fascist one) by a decades-long process of democratisation.
Ultimately, I think the lesson to be learned is that fascists are really fucking hard to get rid of once they've cemented their power. So, don't let them cement their power. By, for instance, preventing them from appointing powerful allies who serve for life.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:47 AM on March 21, 2017 [37 favorites]
If Pence really is implicated, how would that work in practice? Can anyone besides Trump remove him? Can Trump continue appointing new VPs up until the very moment of impeachment? Could Trump, seeing the writing on the wall, name Ivanka?
I know these sound like insane possibilities, but I don't really put anything past Trump when it comes to burning everything down on the way out.
posted by corb at 9:50 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
I know these sound like insane possibilities, but I don't really put anything past Trump when it comes to burning everything down on the way out.
posted by corb at 9:50 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
(The UK's just got on board the in-flight gadget ban, so whatever it is, it's not just Trump tweaking tails.)
Maaaaybe.
posted by Artw at 9:50 AM on March 21, 2017
Maaaaybe.
posted by Artw at 9:50 AM on March 21, 2017
I disagree a Clinton win would have been as divisive. I still think the Kremlin's game plan here is to undermine our sense of sanity and common sense. A Clinton win would have been unremarkable. Most people obviously expected it. I think the Kremlin's game here is to gaslight us into feeling we don't have an accurate read for popular opinion and each other's real motives. It really only makes sense as a psiop if they knew we would all be shocked and skeptical if Trump won.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:52 AM on March 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by saulgoodman at 9:52 AM on March 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
A Clinton win would mean a number of normal and shitty things, and Republicans would continue to be awful and Democrats would continue to be useless and progress over all would continue to be slow, but it wouldn't be this: The dismantling of anything that makes America worth living in and a leap back into the dark ages.
posted by Artw at 9:55 AM on March 21, 2017 [58 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:55 AM on March 21, 2017 [58 favorites]
A Clinton win would have been unremarkable.
I think that depends on how she won. If she had won because the CIA had announced the Trump was colluding with Russia, that would have been very remarkable indeed. As mad as we were about Comey's letter, imagine how unhinged the Infowars right would have become. I'm not convinced our government could have survived it. Hillary Clinton might have faced a Time of Troubles level armed rebellion.
I think that's why Obama/Comey stayed quiet about the Russia stuff. I think they wanted her to win in an unremarkable way. And she almost did...
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:57 AM on March 21, 2017 [29 favorites]
I think that depends on how she won. If she had won because the CIA had announced the Trump was colluding with Russia, that would have been very remarkable indeed. As mad as we were about Comey's letter, imagine how unhinged the Infowars right would have become. I'm not convinced our government could have survived it. Hillary Clinton might have faced a Time of Troubles level armed rebellion.
I think that's why Obama/Comey stayed quiet about the Russia stuff. I think they wanted her to win in an unremarkable way. And she almost did...
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:57 AM on March 21, 2017 [29 favorites]
I think that scenario, "Clinton wins amid charges of Trump collaboration with Russia; chaos follows" is the reason Russia was so "loud" as Comey put it, in their hacking attempts. That would have been fine with Putin too. And, as I mentioned, the reason Obama was so quiet about them.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:59 AM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:59 AM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
And the awful part of it is, had Hillary Clinton won, Trump's voters would now be losing faith in democracy. And maybe talking about violent revolution.
"Now"? This is an incredibly misleading way to gloss over the violence of the rhetoric that even centrist-leaning conservatives engaged in regarding Obama.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:00 AM on March 21, 2017 [28 favorites]
"Now"? This is an incredibly misleading way to gloss over the violence of the rhetoric that even centrist-leaning conservatives engaged in regarding Obama.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:00 AM on March 21, 2017 [28 favorites]
In an Unprecedented No-Show, the U.S. Pulls Out of Planned Human Rights Hearing
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:01 AM on March 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:01 AM on March 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
Can anyone besides Trump remove [Pence]?
Yes, Michael Pence--by resigning the position.
Pence is the one person that jackass can't just up and fire. My understanding is that a VP can only be removed by Congress through impeachment and conviction or by resignation/death. If Pence were removed, a new VP would have to be confirmed by both house of Congress (as per Amendment XXV), so no President can just continually appoint VPs, unless the Congress repeatedly consents.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:03 AM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yes, Michael Pence--by resigning the position.
Pence is the one person that jackass can't just up and fire. My understanding is that a VP can only be removed by Congress through impeachment and conviction or by resignation/death. If Pence were removed, a new VP would have to be confirmed by both house of Congress (as per Amendment XXV), so no President can just continually appoint VPs, unless the Congress repeatedly consents.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:03 AM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
If Pence really is implicated, how would that work in practice? Can anyone besides Trump remove him?
Trump himself can't remove Pence. He can minimize Pence's responsibility - anything beyond the constitutionally mandated role of President of the Senate is at the President's pleasure - but Trump can't say "you're fired" to Pence. Other than resignation, death, or succession to the Presidency, the VP can only be removed from office via impeachment by the House (simple majority) followed by conviction by the Senate (2/3 supermajority), just like the President.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 10:03 AM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump himself can't remove Pence. He can minimize Pence's responsibility - anything beyond the constitutionally mandated role of President of the Senate is at the President's pleasure - but Trump can't say "you're fired" to Pence. Other than resignation, death, or succession to the Presidency, the VP can only be removed from office via impeachment by the House (simple majority) followed by conviction by the Senate (2/3 supermajority), just like the President.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 10:03 AM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
violence of the rhetoric that even centrist-leaning conservatives engaged in regarding Obama.
Yeah, but did they actually believe that rhetoric? I think it's some kind of middle ground between "pretending" and "believing," but many of them would have shifted into real belief, the kind that you actually act on, if Hillary had won under even slightly unusual circumstances.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:03 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but did they actually believe that rhetoric? I think it's some kind of middle ground between "pretending" and "believing," but many of them would have shifted into real belief, the kind that you actually act on, if Hillary had won under even slightly unusual circumstances.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:03 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Fomenting violent revolution is the kind of thing that it doesn't matter what they believe in their heart of hearts. The action itself is dangerous, because their supporters do believe it. And the Republicans engaged in violent eliminiationist rhetoric for 8 solid years, often on the floor of Congress itself.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:06 AM on March 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:06 AM on March 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
I think they were blatant about it specifically to drive home the point our electoral systems are too insecure and unaccountable and no amount of papering that over with politics touches that reality. It creates cognitive dissonance having to proceed as if the process can be assumed to have had integrity when that flies in the face of people's intuitions Trump wasn't going to win and deep down we all know there really aren't any guarantees. The FBI keeps saying they found no evidence of attacks on the polls themselves, but that's exactly the security problem with the paperless systems still out there: cybersecurity experts have demonstrated many of them can be hacked without leaving a trail of evidence. That fact alone should be viewed as an unacceptable risk.
posted by saulgoodman at 10:06 AM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by saulgoodman at 10:06 AM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
We are so polarized. We trust each other so little.
True, and it's all their fault. It isn't as if Democrats or liberals have been on hate radio screaming that the Republicans are literal traitors, or "objectively pro-terrorist", or that they intend to destroy America for a nefarious reason. That's all them.
So now, yes, I do trust them very little. It's hard to trust people who think you're evil incarnate and have bumper stickers declaring that they intend to murder you if they get a chance (that's what those "liberal hunting license" bumper stickers are: threats of deadly violence).
I am polarized because they have abandoned any and all pretense of rationality and gone down the rabbit hole of sheer bigotry and hate. How can I be with them?
I'm worried, because the last time the country was this split the result was civil war, and I don't want civil war. I live in Texas, I'd be pushed up against a wall and shot if there was civil war.
I have no idea how to save the country. We're gerrymandered all to hell, the Senate is there to make sure that no matter what happens we more numerous liberals can never, ever, have a win, the Presidency is stolen via the BS of the Electoral College, and a hateful minority is now dictating that the rest of us get on board with their program.
And, much as it pains me to admit it, there's a whole hell of a lot of Republicans out there. Not as many of them as us, but still very close to half the country has gone bugfuck insane and voted for Trump.
We're losing. Badly.
We've lost over half the state governments, we've lost the House, we've lost the Senate, we've lost the Presidency, and it is 100% guaranteed that Gorsuch will be on the Supreme Court in a few weeks at the most. I want our Democratic Senators to fight, but I also recognize that it would be purely symbolic. The simple fact is that the Republicans vote in lock step and they've got 52 votes, so no matter how horrible it is, no matter how much of a violation it is, no matter how much of an open theft of the Supreme Court it is, they will win.
So how do we fix things? The system is rigged against us and has been since the 1790's. It sounds nice to talk about California, New York, and so on using economic threats to get a better system, but it isn't going to happen.
Are we really totally fucked now?
posted by sotonohito at 10:06 AM on March 21, 2017 [71 favorites]
True, and it's all their fault. It isn't as if Democrats or liberals have been on hate radio screaming that the Republicans are literal traitors, or "objectively pro-terrorist", or that they intend to destroy America for a nefarious reason. That's all them.
So now, yes, I do trust them very little. It's hard to trust people who think you're evil incarnate and have bumper stickers declaring that they intend to murder you if they get a chance (that's what those "liberal hunting license" bumper stickers are: threats of deadly violence).
I am polarized because they have abandoned any and all pretense of rationality and gone down the rabbit hole of sheer bigotry and hate. How can I be with them?
I'm worried, because the last time the country was this split the result was civil war, and I don't want civil war. I live in Texas, I'd be pushed up against a wall and shot if there was civil war.
I have no idea how to save the country. We're gerrymandered all to hell, the Senate is there to make sure that no matter what happens we more numerous liberals can never, ever, have a win, the Presidency is stolen via the BS of the Electoral College, and a hateful minority is now dictating that the rest of us get on board with their program.
And, much as it pains me to admit it, there's a whole hell of a lot of Republicans out there. Not as many of them as us, but still very close to half the country has gone bugfuck insane and voted for Trump.
We're losing. Badly.
We've lost over half the state governments, we've lost the House, we've lost the Senate, we've lost the Presidency, and it is 100% guaranteed that Gorsuch will be on the Supreme Court in a few weeks at the most. I want our Democratic Senators to fight, but I also recognize that it would be purely symbolic. The simple fact is that the Republicans vote in lock step and they've got 52 votes, so no matter how horrible it is, no matter how much of a violation it is, no matter how much of an open theft of the Supreme Court it is, they will win.
So how do we fix things? The system is rigged against us and has been since the 1790's. It sounds nice to talk about California, New York, and so on using economic threats to get a better system, but it isn't going to happen.
Are we really totally fucked now?
posted by sotonohito at 10:06 AM on March 21, 2017 [71 favorites]
I have also seen it refer to "actively making the conditions of existence worse in order to bring about revolution."
I will say that the only people I've ever heard refer to themselves as accelerationists were very much of the "we should speed the collapse of the US - not capitalism, and very frankly ' by collapse we mean supply chains and hospitals' - so that people will rise up and something better will take its place" school. This is a numerically rare position, but tends to attract very vocal people.
posted by Frowner at 10:07 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
I will say that the only people I've ever heard refer to themselves as accelerationists were very much of the "we should speed the collapse of the US - not capitalism, and very frankly ' by collapse we mean supply chains and hospitals' - so that people will rise up and something better will take its place" school. This is a numerically rare position, but tends to attract very vocal people.
posted by Frowner at 10:07 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
So now what? What do you do with people who have no shame but are a danger to others as well as themselves?
Apparently, the answer is to make it harder for them to get away with anything by putting them in the most exposed and nitpicked roles in America.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:07 AM on March 21, 2017
Apparently, the answer is to make it harder for them to get away with anything by putting them in the most exposed and nitpicked roles in America.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:07 AM on March 21, 2017
Iran (overthrown by the Iranian revolution, backed by the US)
And the US-backed fascist regime in Iran came to power after the CIA overthrew Iran's democratically-elected government.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:10 AM on March 21, 2017
I will say that the only people I've ever heard refer to themselves as accelerationists were very much of the "we should speed the collapse of the US - not capitalism, and very frankly ' by collapse we mean supply chains and hospitals' - so that people will rise up and something better will take its place" school. This is a numerically rare position, but tends to attract very vocal people.
I think it's completely fair to denigrate this position and its bizarre Hollywood-dystopian-movie version of political economy, but I also think it's important to not allow these people to have ownership of an interesting and well-thought-out critique of capitalism. For example, the beginners guide to this is called The Accelerationist Reader, and it would be a shame for Leftists to overlook the movement (not to say whole-heartedly embrace it) because of some loud disaster-porn enthusiasts.
[steps off theory soapbox]
posted by R.F.Simpson at 10:13 AM on March 21, 2017
I think it's completely fair to denigrate this position and its bizarre Hollywood-dystopian-movie version of political economy, but I also think it's important to not allow these people to have ownership of an interesting and well-thought-out critique of capitalism. For example, the beginners guide to this is called The Accelerationist Reader, and it would be a shame for Leftists to overlook the movement (not to say whole-heartedly embrace it) because of some loud disaster-porn enthusiasts.
[steps off theory soapbox]
posted by R.F.Simpson at 10:13 AM on March 21, 2017
Does anyone think the "larger devices in checked bags" thing is just so they can separate the devices from their owners and make a copy of their contents discreetly?
posted by jferg at 10:16 AM on March 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by jferg at 10:16 AM on March 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
Yeah, but did they actually believe that rhetoric?
Yes, I think they did. Thus the rise in domestic terror groups and the alignment of the anti-government types like the Bundys with white supremacy.
I think it's some kind of middle ground between "pretending" and "believing," but many of them would have shifted into real belief, the kind that you actually act on, if Hillary had won under even slightly unusual circumstances.
Many of these people believed that ACORN stole the election twice, even after it had been disbanded. They thought Benghazi was at best a fuck-up entirely of the administration's making. Even the supposedly level-headed among them maintained that in-person voter fraud, a racist myth blown way out of perception, was Totally A Real Thing. They were very serious about Obama, friend of the financial and health insurance lobbies, leading us down the road to Marxist ruination. Occupy Wall Street was painted as a frightening specter of leftist agitation akin to murder squads wandering the streets. They made the exact same accusations about Obama and Putin that the FBI is making about Trump and his staff.
So, no, I don't think that portraying the election of Clinton "under even slightly unusual circumstances " that you have described deserves to be characterized as just as much of a peril to the US (if not more) than Trump being elected.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:18 AM on March 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
Yes, I think they did. Thus the rise in domestic terror groups and the alignment of the anti-government types like the Bundys with white supremacy.
I think it's some kind of middle ground between "pretending" and "believing," but many of them would have shifted into real belief, the kind that you actually act on, if Hillary had won under even slightly unusual circumstances.
Many of these people believed that ACORN stole the election twice, even after it had been disbanded. They thought Benghazi was at best a fuck-up entirely of the administration's making. Even the supposedly level-headed among them maintained that in-person voter fraud, a racist myth blown way out of perception, was Totally A Real Thing. They were very serious about Obama, friend of the financial and health insurance lobbies, leading us down the road to Marxist ruination. Occupy Wall Street was painted as a frightening specter of leftist agitation akin to murder squads wandering the streets. They made the exact same accusations about Obama and Putin that the FBI is making about Trump and his staff.
So, no, I don't think that portraying the election of Clinton "under even slightly unusual circumstances " that you have described deserves to be characterized as just as much of a peril to the US (if not more) than Trump being elected.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:18 AM on March 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
And in any case, with so much Trump on our plates, there's not much space left for "what-if" beans.
posted by Namlit at 10:27 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Namlit at 10:27 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Meadows walks out of the House Freedom Caucus meeting this afternoon, says there still aren't enough votes to pass the AHCA "without a doubt". In other healthcare news, it turns out that the AHCA will, according to the CBO scores, leave a million more people uninsured than just a complete repeal of the ACA, so really nice work there.
Also, please enjoy this excerpt from the pool report (from the NASA bill signing):
posted by zachlipton at 10:30 AM on March 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
Also, please enjoy this excerpt from the pool report (from the NASA bill signing):
Trump paused to remark on the difficulty of being an astronaut. "It's a pretty tough job," Trump said before turning to Cruz. "I don't know Ted would you like to do it? I don't think I would."Lastly, Spicey time.
Cruz shook his head indicating that he would not want to be an astronaut. Trump then turned to Rubio.
"Marco, do you want to do it?" he asked.
"I'm not sure we want to do it," Trump said.
Cruz piped in with a proposal.
"You could send Congress to space," said Cruz.
"We could," Trump said turning to look at Pence. "What a great idea that could be."
posted by zachlipton at 10:30 AM on March 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
Does anyone think the "larger devices in checked bags" thing is just so they can separate the devices from their owners and make a copy of their contents discreetly?
Even the glacially slow international security / check-in process only takes about 3 hours from bag drop to push back, and we're talking 200+ bags that need to be searched for large electronics, so figure maybe 100 laptops to be illicitly imaged. Even assuming some sort of technologically advanced NSA device like unto magic in its ability to, say, plug into an arbitrary USB port of ANY computer using ANY operating system, regardless of device on/off/suspend state, and copy the contents out, given the bandwidth of USB we're still probably talking like a dozen agents to get it done.
And that's one flight. At one airport. In one country.
So no, I'm going to go with "completely implausible" on that one. Can't we just admit that American security theater is a bureaucratic clusterfuck imposed by inexperienced people with unrealistic expectations on those in a weaker position who just have to throw up their hands and (at least pretend to) comply? It's a poorly thought out plan that will annoy and harass at least tens of thousands of people for no material benefit. That's bad enough without turning it into some kind of data-stealing plot.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 10:32 AM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
Even the glacially slow international security / check-in process only takes about 3 hours from bag drop to push back, and we're talking 200+ bags that need to be searched for large electronics, so figure maybe 100 laptops to be illicitly imaged. Even assuming some sort of technologically advanced NSA device like unto magic in its ability to, say, plug into an arbitrary USB port of ANY computer using ANY operating system, regardless of device on/off/suspend state, and copy the contents out, given the bandwidth of USB we're still probably talking like a dozen agents to get it done.
And that's one flight. At one airport. In one country.
So no, I'm going to go with "completely implausible" on that one. Can't we just admit that American security theater is a bureaucratic clusterfuck imposed by inexperienced people with unrealistic expectations on those in a weaker position who just have to throw up their hands and (at least pretend to) comply? It's a poorly thought out plan that will annoy and harass at least tens of thousands of people for no material benefit. That's bad enough without turning it into some kind of data-stealing plot.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 10:32 AM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
Gorsuch has no credibility at this point*. I don't know who was asking the questions (I didn't catch the name) but he was grilling the nominee about asking women about their family planning choices as part of the job-interview process. This went on for a while. Gorsuch kept refusing to answer because it was a hypothetical or a possible future case. Then the guy said, "you know why I'm asking you this," and Gorsuch responded "No."
I'm sorry, that's a complete and utter lie (and if it isn't it's willful ignorance). I'm somebody living in a foreign country, and I knew exactly why he was asking those questions. The funny part is I explained it to the person I was sitting with at the time, just a few seconds before the guy asked "do you know...?"
There is no way that it is believable that he wasn't aware of the accusations of the female law students. And there is no way I believe his "explanation" especially as it was delivered in the same tone as his original lie.
*I'm not saying he had any legitimacy before or that his views aren't dangerous or that Trump had any right to nominate him in the first place. I'm just saying as an objective listener I couldn't go more than ten minutes without catching him in a lie and I'm not a highly informed politician whose job is to evaluate this guy for such a powerful position.
posted by sardonyx at 10:33 AM on March 21, 2017 [37 favorites]
I'm sorry, that's a complete and utter lie (and if it isn't it's willful ignorance). I'm somebody living in a foreign country, and I knew exactly why he was asking those questions. The funny part is I explained it to the person I was sitting with at the time, just a few seconds before the guy asked "do you know...?"
There is no way that it is believable that he wasn't aware of the accusations of the female law students. And there is no way I believe his "explanation" especially as it was delivered in the same tone as his original lie.
*I'm not saying he had any legitimacy before or that his views aren't dangerous or that Trump had any right to nominate him in the first place. I'm just saying as an objective listener I couldn't go more than ten minutes without catching him in a lie and I'm not a highly informed politician whose job is to evaluate this guy for such a powerful position.
posted by sardonyx at 10:33 AM on March 21, 2017 [37 favorites]
I think "lack of shame" is the real story here. Republicans (even before Trump, but especially now) feel free to flaunt their hateful, messed-up, craven, BDSM-but-without-a-safeword-or-consent beliefs before the world
The importance of the conservative movement's decades-long project to work the refs with phony cries of "liberal media" can't be emphasized enough here. The media helps enforce the norms. Republican complaining that the media is somehow biased against them leads to nonsense like the media adopting McConnell's nonsense framing that 60 votes are now required for anything in the Senate.
It's been noted that, during his hearing, Gorsuch keeps on using 'Democrat' instead of the proper 'Democratic' in reference to the party (including referring to a 'Democrat President').
Meanwhile, the Republicans enjoy the benefit of a completely undeserved nickname, "the GOP," which is short for "Grand Old Party." They don't deserve it, and despite "GOP" being easier to type, I'll never call them that again.
posted by Gelatin at 10:34 AM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
The importance of the conservative movement's decades-long project to work the refs with phony cries of "liberal media" can't be emphasized enough here. The media helps enforce the norms. Republican complaining that the media is somehow biased against them leads to nonsense like the media adopting McConnell's nonsense framing that 60 votes are now required for anything in the Senate.
It's been noted that, during his hearing, Gorsuch keeps on using 'Democrat' instead of the proper 'Democratic' in reference to the party (including referring to a 'Democrat President').
Meanwhile, the Republicans enjoy the benefit of a completely undeserved nickname, "the GOP," which is short for "Grand Old Party." They don't deserve it, and despite "GOP" being easier to type, I'll never call them that again.
posted by Gelatin at 10:34 AM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
Here's another possible motivation on the electronics ban from the WaPo:
It may not be about security. Three of the airlines that have been targeted for these measures — Emirates, Etihad Airways and Qatar Airways — have long been accused by their U.S. competitors of receiving massive effective subsidies from their governments. These airlines have been quietly worried for months that President Trump was going to retaliate. This may be the retaliation.posted by peeedro at 10:34 AM on March 21, 2017 [61 favorites]
These three airlines, as well as the other airlines targeted in the order, are likely to lose a major amount of business from their most lucrative customers — people who travel in business class and first class. Business travelers are disproportionately likely to want to work on the plane — the reason they are prepared to pay business-class or first-class fares is because it allows them to work in comfort. These travelers are unlikely to appreciate having to do all their work on smartphones, or not being able to work at all. The likely result is that many of them will stop flying on Gulf airlines, and start traveling on U.S. airlines instead.
As the Financial Times notes, the order doesn’t affect only the airlines’ direct flights to and from the United States — it attacks the “hub” airports that are at the core of their business models. These airlines not only fly passengers directly from the Gulf region to the United States — they also fly passengers from many other destinations, transferring them from one plane to another in the hubs. This “hub and spoke” approach is a standard economic model for long-haul airlines, offering them large savings. However, it also creates big vulnerabilities. If competitors or unfriendly states can undermine or degrade the hub, they can inflict heavy economic damage.
Even the glacially slow international security / check-in process only takes about 3 hours from bag drop to push back, and we're talking 200+ bags that need to be searched for large electronics, so figure maybe 100 laptops to be illicitly imaged.
Didn't say they were going to image every one. But yeah, I'm probably just being paranoid. :-/
posted by jferg at 10:34 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Didn't say they were going to image every one. But yeah, I'm probably just being paranoid. :-/
posted by jferg at 10:34 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
> [American security theater is] a poorly thought out plan that will annoy and harass at least tens of thousands of people for no material benefit.
I think the point is to amplify their message: "We don't want you coming here. And we'll make it extremely inconvenient if you persist."
I don't know how that squares with the needs and desires of their donor class, though. Maybe they're just buying laptops at their destination and treating them as disposable appendages to cloud storage?
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:35 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think the point is to amplify their message: "We don't want you coming here. And we'll make it extremely inconvenient if you persist."
I don't know how that squares with the needs and desires of their donor class, though. Maybe they're just buying laptops at their destination and treating them as disposable appendages to cloud storage?
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:35 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
In Senator Feinstein's opening remarks to the Gorsuch hearing, she asks to "enter into the record the 14 key cases where the Supreme Court upheld Roe’s core holding and the total 39 decisions where it has been reaffirmed by the court" and voices her concerns about "originalist" judicial philosphy:
In fact if we were to dogmatically adhere to “originalist” interpretations, then we would still have segregated schools and bans on interracial marriage. Women wouldn’t be entitled to equal protection under the law. And government discrimination against LGBT Americans would be permitted.posted by kristi at 10:35 AM on March 21, 2017 [65 favorites]
Please enjoy this additional excerpt from the pool report:
Culberson then piped in.posted by zachlipton at 10:37 AM on March 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
"Mr. President, if I may? Just as Americans remember that President Eisenhower was the father of the interstate highway system, with your bill signing today and your vision and leadership, future generations will remember that President Donald Trump was the father of the interplanetary highway system."
"Well that sounds exciting," Trump said, adding, "First we want to fix our highways. We're going to fix our highways."
I also like the WaPo explanation that Peeedro linked to. It is simplistic and petty enough to be fully plausible out of this administration.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 10:37 AM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 10:37 AM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
Cruz piped in with a proposal.You know when I was a kid I said the exact same thing to my mom about our dog, because he barked all the time. And you know what? She took that idea and made it into a children's book! Man, my mom is so much cooler than Ted Cruz.
"You could send Congress to space," said Cruz.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 10:38 AM on March 21, 2017 [51 favorites]
The U.K. is also banning laptops on some flights
posted by gnuhavenpier at 10:45 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by gnuhavenpier at 10:45 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was trying to figure out why Eric Trump looked so familiar and it came to me
Eric Trump always looks to me like he was taken out of his vat about two weeks before the process was completed; almost done, but still recognizably not quite human.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:48 AM on March 21, 2017 [27 favorites]
Eric Trump always looks to me like he was taken out of his vat about two weeks before the process was completed; almost done, but still recognizably not quite human.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:48 AM on March 21, 2017 [27 favorites]
For Gorsuch, does anyone know anything negative about him that will resonate with people who aren't liberal? I have some coworkers who lean right but aren't crazy and I'd love to be able to talk to them about this (making some headway with "Obama wasn't allowed to fill this seat for a year and Trump is under investigation" but I don't know of anything about Gorsuch as an individual that will sound negative to them).
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:51 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:51 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was looking at some of Trump's old tweets and realized he was prophetic.
May 30, 2014 11:02:16 AM Our country is on the precipice. Washington is broken. Where is the leadership?
Dec 21, 2012 11:47:15 AM Washington is in total gridlock—no trust, no leadership—very interesting!
Jan 26, 2012 04:06:07 PM “We need more grown-ups in Washington, people who will shoot straight and level with the American people.”
Sep 19, 2011 12:24:22 PM Washington is all out of answers. New leadership is needed.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:53 AM on March 21, 2017
May 30, 2014 11:02:16 AM Our country is on the precipice. Washington is broken. Where is the leadership?
Dec 21, 2012 11:47:15 AM Washington is in total gridlock—no trust, no leadership—very interesting!
Jan 26, 2012 04:06:07 PM “We need more grown-ups in Washington, people who will shoot straight and level with the American people.”
Sep 19, 2011 12:24:22 PM Washington is all out of answers. New leadership is needed.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:53 AM on March 21, 2017
I was trying to figure out why Eric Trump looked so familiar and it came to me
Eric Trump always looks to me like he was taken out of his vat about two weeks before the process was completed; almost done, but still recognizably not quite human.
To me he always looks like he could be DS9's Odo's evil younger brother or something.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 10:54 AM on March 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
Eric Trump always looks to me like he was taken out of his vat about two weeks before the process was completed; almost done, but still recognizably not quite human.
To me he always looks like he could be DS9's Odo's evil younger brother or something.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 10:54 AM on March 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
Are we really totally fucked now?
37% approval rating in two months. FBI counterintelligence investigation.
Trump is the next Nixon, but with added incompetence and treason. That's gotta leave a mark.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:55 AM on March 21, 2017 [32 favorites]
37% approval rating in two months. FBI counterintelligence investigation.
Trump is the next Nixon, but with added incompetence and treason. That's gotta leave a mark.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:55 AM on March 21, 2017 [32 favorites]
On the one hand it's wrong to make fun of people's appearance even if they're fascists but on the other hand he does look like odo's vampire cousin and also fuck him
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:56 AM on March 21, 2017 [60 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:56 AM on March 21, 2017 [60 favorites]
In Senator Feinstein's opening remarks to the Gorsuch hearing, she asks to "enter into the record the 14 key cases where the Supreme Court upheld Roe’s core holding and the total 39 decisions where it has been reaffirmed by the court"
I'm assuming this is in response to Graham's bizarrely off topic "hey guys I am totally making a ban"?
posted by corb at 10:57 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm assuming this is in response to Graham's bizarrely off topic "hey guys I am totally making a ban"?
posted by corb at 10:57 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Cruz piped in with a proposal.
"You could send Congress to space," said Cruz.
I have some suggestions for the first batch. They'll really like it too, because I call in an Ark.
The 'B' Ark.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:57 AM on March 21, 2017 [21 favorites]
"You could send Congress to space," said Cruz.
I have some suggestions for the first batch. They'll really like it too, because I call in an Ark.
The 'B' Ark.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:57 AM on March 21, 2017 [21 favorites]
For Gorsuch, does anyone know anything negative about him that will resonate with people who aren't liberal? I have some coworkers who lean right but aren't crazy and I'd love to be able to talk to them about this (making some headway with "Obama wasn't allowed to fill this seat for a year and Trump is under investigation" but I don't know of anything about Gorsuch as an individual that will sound negative to them).
He wants to end all federal authority to regulate. Who needs the FDA, right?
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:57 AM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
He wants to end all federal authority to regulate. Who needs the FDA, right?
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:57 AM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
He wants to end all federal authority to regulate. Who needs the FDA, right?
Nah, that'll just give all the Libertarians giant Gorsuch boners.
posted by jferg at 10:59 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Nah, that'll just give all the Libertarians giant Gorsuch boners.
posted by jferg at 10:59 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
He wants to end all federal authority to regulate. Who needs the FDA, right?
I submit that we send him the first batch of unregulated Soylent to hit the market. And then he can be part of the second batch.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:00 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
I submit that we send him the first batch of unregulated Soylent to hit the market. And then he can be part of the second batch.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:00 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
And we're back to Trump's mirror. Remember the heady days of 2016, when people were worried about Pay to Play with the Clinton foundation? Ohohoho, those were fun times.
Well, Mike Flynn was paid by the Turkish government to give some perfunctory speeches and write an op-ed on their behalf. And most people accept that, correctly I think, as Turkey buying influence. But what's the difference between that and Hillary giving some perfunctory speeches for hundreds of thousands of dollars from Goldman Sachs? Are we supposed to give a pass to domestic malefactors while we come down on foreign ones, and is that any different from xenophobia?
posted by indubitable at 11:10 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well, Mike Flynn was paid by the Turkish government to give some perfunctory speeches and write an op-ed on their behalf. And most people accept that, correctly I think, as Turkey buying influence. But what's the difference between that and Hillary giving some perfunctory speeches for hundreds of thousands of dollars from Goldman Sachs? Are we supposed to give a pass to domestic malefactors while we come down on foreign ones, and is that any different from xenophobia?
posted by indubitable at 11:10 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
The U.K. is also banning laptops on some flights
I always found it amazing that authorities limit liquids to 3 x 100ml but were happy to let an unlimited amount of 100Wh batteries pass through unmolested. I mean, I get why they banned the liquids, they don't want you to bring through a bottle of glycerol and a bottle of mixed acid, both of which look almost identical to water. But then to allow unlimited 100Wh batteries through? Yeah sure. Go right ahead. Short half a dozen of them in the bathroom and set the plane on fire!
I expect there will be more restrictions on lithium batteries domestically coming soon. My days of carrying my two 27,000mAh packs on trips might be coming to an end.
posted by Talez at 11:13 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
I always found it amazing that authorities limit liquids to 3 x 100ml but were happy to let an unlimited amount of 100Wh batteries pass through unmolested. I mean, I get why they banned the liquids, they don't want you to bring through a bottle of glycerol and a bottle of mixed acid, both of which look almost identical to water. But then to allow unlimited 100Wh batteries through? Yeah sure. Go right ahead. Short half a dozen of them in the bathroom and set the plane on fire!
I expect there will be more restrictions on lithium batteries domestically coming soon. My days of carrying my two 27,000mAh packs on trips might be coming to an end.
posted by Talez at 11:13 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Spain and Portugal had successful transitions away from fascism toward democracy, but those regimes only ended when the dictator died. Still, the fact that the dictators weren't succeeded by other dictators still counts as a success in my book.
Careful. In the case of Spain, a big reason was because Franco's chosen successor, Admiral Luis Carrero Blanco, was assassinated by ETA. Operation Ogro is considered one of the most successful and brutal assassinations in history, for which the term "overkill" truly is appropriate.
posted by zakur at 11:17 AM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Careful. In the case of Spain, a big reason was because Franco's chosen successor, Admiral Luis Carrero Blanco, was assassinated by ETA. Operation Ogro is considered one of the most successful and brutal assassinations in history, for which the term "overkill" truly is appropriate.
posted by zakur at 11:17 AM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Anatomy Of A GOP Town Hall
Republican congressman's town tall ends and in this case Republican staffers are caught on a hot mic planning how to make those constituents look "un-American" because they booed defense spending.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:21 AM on March 21, 2017 [42 favorites]
Republican congressman's town tall ends and in this case Republican staffers are caught on a hot mic planning how to make those constituents look "un-American" because they booed defense spending.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:21 AM on March 21, 2017 [42 favorites]
Anatomy Of A GOP Town Hall
The constituents can make a show all they like but will they come out to vote?
If clowns like Trott make it back in despite the frenzy of pissed off liberals they will feel invincible.
posted by Talez at 11:24 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
The constituents can make a show all they like but will they come out to vote?
If clowns like Trott make it back in despite the frenzy of pissed off liberals they will feel invincible.
posted by Talez at 11:24 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
For Gorsuch, does anyone know anything negative about him that will resonate with people who aren't liberal?
You could mention the time Gorsuch ruled in favor of a trucking corporation to allow them to fire a driver who abandoned his trailer after waiting for hours in below zero temperatures for help promised by the company that never came and was freezing to death. Gorsuch's contempt for the lives of blue collar workers might resonate.
posted by JackFlash at 11:28 AM on March 21, 2017 [68 favorites]
You could mention the time Gorsuch ruled in favor of a trucking corporation to allow them to fire a driver who abandoned his trailer after waiting for hours in below zero temperatures for help promised by the company that never came and was freezing to death. Gorsuch's contempt for the lives of blue collar workers might resonate.
posted by JackFlash at 11:28 AM on March 21, 2017 [68 favorites]
The constituents can make a show all they like but will they come out to vote?
Pretty sure that if you drive in the dark to a town hall held an hour after dawn IN THE MIDDLE OF A SNOWSTORM, you vote.
Better question, I think, is whether enough of the people who showed up live in the district, and how many of the district residents who saw the angry cancer survivors and families on local TV will vote.
posted by joyceanmachine at 11:29 AM on March 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
Pretty sure that if you drive in the dark to a town hall held an hour after dawn IN THE MIDDLE OF A SNOWSTORM, you vote.
Better question, I think, is whether enough of the people who showed up live in the district, and how many of the district residents who saw the angry cancer survivors and families on local TV will vote.
posted by joyceanmachine at 11:29 AM on March 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
Best evidence that Comey is a good egg. He hates the Patriots.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:30 AM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 11:30 AM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Gorsuch's contempt for the lives of blue collar workers might resonate.
Yeah, he's pretty much the living embodiment of an '80s "slobs vs. snobs" movie villain, I really wish people would push that harder.
posted by indubitable at 11:31 AM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, he's pretty much the living embodiment of an '80s "slobs vs. snobs" movie villain, I really wish people would push that harder.
posted by indubitable at 11:31 AM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Even the glacially slow international security / check-in process only takes about 3 hours from bag drop to push back, and we're talking 200+ bags that need to be searched for large electronics, so figure maybe 100 laptops to be illicitly imaged. Even assuming some sort of technologically advanced NSA device like unto magic in its ability to, say, plug into an arbitrary USB port of ANY computer using ANY operating system, regardless of device on/off/suspend state, and copy the contents out, given the bandwidth of USB we're still probably talking like a dozen agents to get it done.
That's the pure brute force solution, a worst case scenario for LE. Just because they reroute all laptops doesn't mean they'll image all of them. But it does give them greater access to the many fewer laptops belonging to potential persons of interest. If a typical flight has only one or two such people, now it becomes feasible to image/implant them all with no alert to the suspect passengers.
I'm not saying I think that's what they're doing. Just that it's not as implausible as you make it sound.
posted by scalefree at 11:33 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
That's the pure brute force solution, a worst case scenario for LE. Just because they reroute all laptops doesn't mean they'll image all of them. But it does give them greater access to the many fewer laptops belonging to potential persons of interest. If a typical flight has only one or two such people, now it becomes feasible to image/implant them all with no alert to the suspect passengers.
I'm not saying I think that's what they're doing. Just that it's not as implausible as you make it sound.
posted by scalefree at 11:33 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Tee Hee: Tomi Lahren suspended from The Blaze after she admits she's pro-choice. So much for the tolerant right? I find this so hilarious. She actually believed all the talk about "limited government" and liberty and applied it for herself to abortion. Then they declare she got the "wrong answer" and now she's being vanished.
I'm really kind of loving this. Tomi Lahren is the kind of incendiary, analytically challenged talk show host who seems to think comparing the Black Lives Matter movement to the KKK and asking whether women even knew why they were marching is intellectually bracing and "honest". She's been feeding the bigots who voted for Trump the racist and misogynist tirades they love, they've been eating it up, and she's probably gotten to the point where she thought she had actual influence and respect. Uh, no.
What I doubt she realizes is that she's getting rewarded not for her individual perspective, but for being a young, white, conventionally attractive woman who mouths the reactionary garbage that the worst people in Western society are hungry to hear because it validates their own beliefs. If she ceased to tell her audience exactly what they wanted to hear -- not to mention became significantly less pretty, thin, or young -- all that adulation and all those opportunities would disappear like a puff of smoke. And that is indeed what has happened here. She tried to embrace one liberal principle by declaring herself as pro-choice, and her employers and base turned on her.
It's a modern Aesop's fable, and I can't help enjoying the fact that someone who tried to reap the whirlwind by feeding hatefulness and ignorance to those avid for it may well wind up feeding those same people in another way: by flipping their burgers for minimum wage.
posted by orange swan at 11:33 AM on March 21, 2017 [28 favorites]
I'm really kind of loving this. Tomi Lahren is the kind of incendiary, analytically challenged talk show host who seems to think comparing the Black Lives Matter movement to the KKK and asking whether women even knew why they were marching is intellectually bracing and "honest". She's been feeding the bigots who voted for Trump the racist and misogynist tirades they love, they've been eating it up, and she's probably gotten to the point where she thought she had actual influence and respect. Uh, no.
What I doubt she realizes is that she's getting rewarded not for her individual perspective, but for being a young, white, conventionally attractive woman who mouths the reactionary garbage that the worst people in Western society are hungry to hear because it validates their own beliefs. If she ceased to tell her audience exactly what they wanted to hear -- not to mention became significantly less pretty, thin, or young -- all that adulation and all those opportunities would disappear like a puff of smoke. And that is indeed what has happened here. She tried to embrace one liberal principle by declaring herself as pro-choice, and her employers and base turned on her.
It's a modern Aesop's fable, and I can't help enjoying the fact that someone who tried to reap the whirlwind by feeding hatefulness and ignorance to those avid for it may well wind up feeding those same people in another way: by flipping their burgers for minimum wage.
posted by orange swan at 11:33 AM on March 21, 2017 [28 favorites]
Best evidence that Comey is a good egg. He hates the Patriots.
so am I to assume all is forgiven re: helping us get President Trump?
posted by indubitable at 11:34 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
so am I to assume all is forgiven re: helping us get President Trump?
posted by indubitable at 11:34 AM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Best evidence that Comey is a good egg. He hates the Patriots.
so am I to assume all is forgiven re: helping us get President Trump?
SUCH IS THE POWER OF SPORTS
posted by Existential Dread at 11:35 AM on March 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
so am I to assume all is forgiven re: helping us get President Trump?
SUCH IS THE POWER OF SPORTS
posted by Existential Dread at 11:35 AM on March 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
Best evidence that Comey is a good egg. He hates the Patriots
Then why did he let FBI agents loose in The Hunt for Brady's Jersey?
posted by adamg at 11:38 AM on March 21, 2017
Then why did he let FBI agents loose in The Hunt for Brady's Jersey?
posted by adamg at 11:38 AM on March 21, 2017
lol Tomi Lahren is only known to me because she was on the The Daily Show with Trevor Noah and said that as a millennial she doesn't like labels.
That made quite a round on my social media feed.
I actually watched that entire interview out of curiosity. I figured it had been taken out of context. Nope.
She's a younger version of Conway, in my opinion.
posted by INFJ at 11:39 AM on March 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
That made quite a round on my social media feed.
I actually watched that entire interview out of curiosity. I figured it had been taken out of context. Nope.
She's a younger version of Conway, in my opinion.
posted by INFJ at 11:39 AM on March 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
So how do we fix things? The system is rigged against us and has been since the 1790's. It sounds nice to talk about California, New York, and so on using economic threats to get a better system, but it isn't going to happen.
Are we really totally fucked now?
GOTV
Sorry, but seen from afar, the low participation at US elections is really the main issue. Yes, there is gerrymandering and there are tons of ways Republicans try to block people from voting, and there are people who vote Libertarian or Green, but if the Democratic party and it's voters would get to work in all the local elections and the midterms, there would not be a problem.
It's not just voting in itself, it is also all those people who don't feel their vote counts, or who vote against their own interests. And the remedy for that is local activism, not a call to arms. Tell people their voice is important and they are important and that local politicians are there to help. Let it trickle up instead of hoping for something from above to save you. I know many people here are doing just that now, and they are amazing, and I believe they are the hope we all need.
Maybe I'm totally wrong, and an armed revolution is the only way, but couldn't you guys just try voting before you get all militant??
posted by mumimor at 11:42 AM on March 21, 2017 [42 favorites]
Are we really totally fucked now?
GOTV
Sorry, but seen from afar, the low participation at US elections is really the main issue. Yes, there is gerrymandering and there are tons of ways Republicans try to block people from voting, and there are people who vote Libertarian or Green, but if the Democratic party and it's voters would get to work in all the local elections and the midterms, there would not be a problem.
It's not just voting in itself, it is also all those people who don't feel their vote counts, or who vote against their own interests. And the remedy for that is local activism, not a call to arms. Tell people their voice is important and they are important and that local politicians are there to help. Let it trickle up instead of hoping for something from above to save you. I know many people here are doing just that now, and they are amazing, and I believe they are the hope we all need.
Maybe I'm totally wrong, and an armed revolution is the only way, but couldn't you guys just try voting before you get all militant??
posted by mumimor at 11:42 AM on March 21, 2017 [42 favorites]
Q: Presidents normally put out a greeting to Americans celebrating Nowruz, the Iranian New Year. Will the President be doing so?
Spicer: Oh shit. You mean I'm supposed to know about all the holidays?
[real question, fake answer. he'll get back to us, don't hold your breath]
posted by zachlipton at 11:43 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Spicer: Oh shit. You mean I'm supposed to know about all the holidays?
[real question, fake answer. he'll get back to us, don't hold your breath]
posted by zachlipton at 11:43 AM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Maybe I'm totally wrong, and an armed revolution is the only way, but couldn't you guys just try voting before you get all militant??
We did and we won by 3 million votes
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:43 AM on March 21, 2017 [58 favorites]
We did and we won by 3 million votes
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:43 AM on March 21, 2017 [58 favorites]
Here's another possible motivation on the electronics ban from the WaPo: It may not be about security. Three of the airlines that have been targeted for these measures — Emirates, Etihad Airways and Qatar Airways — have long been accused by their U.S. competitors of receiving massive effective subsidies from their governments.
Potentially similar, if it's not something bigger that was brewing prior to January 20, 2017:
US antitrust regulators raid Box Club meeting (Journal of Commerce, paywalled)
posted by filthy light thief at 11:44 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Potentially similar, if it's not something bigger that was brewing prior to January 20, 2017:
US antitrust regulators raid Box Club meeting (Journal of Commerce, paywalled)
US antitrust investigators last week raided the biannual Box Club meeting in San Francisco, handing subpoenas to the CEOs of major container lines and capitalizing on a rare window to exercise their power over non-US-based companies.Full article on archive.is via Google cache
Maersk Line confirmed on Monday that it was served a subpoena by the DOJ on Wednesday “in course of an investigation into the global ocean container shipping industry.” Maersk told JOC.com the subpoena doesn't set any allegations against the company.
“A subpoena does not mean that a company has engaged in illegal behavior nor does it prejudge the outcome of the investigation itself,” Maersk said. “As always, Maersk will fully cooperate with the authorities in their investigations, and will respond as appropriate to the subpoena.”
Maersk was the only container line immediately available for comment, but sources tell JOC.com several CEOs of other containers lines were also subpoenaed. It’s unclear whether Department of Justice’s investigation centered around the biannual meeting of the International Council of Containership Operators, commonly known as “Box Club,” or something else.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:44 AM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, the Muslims Laptop Ban is primarily punitive against the ME3 with a side benefit of inconveniencing/banning Muslims. One tipoff is Abu Dhabi's inclusion. It has a U.S. Pre-Clearance Facility. You go through US security and border patrol/customs there. Once you go through, you're effectively in the US. You land basically as a domestic flight.
posted by chris24 at 11:44 AM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 11:44 AM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
A million tabs open and following links from links so I'm not sure how I landed on this and who it was in this thread that started me down the path but uh, guys, I think here's our problem.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:46 AM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:46 AM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
...may well wind up feeding those same people in another way: by flipping their burgers for minimum wage.
Naw. She'll lie low for a suitable period of time, then creep back in after appropriate noises about how she's had a good hard think and realized that so-called "pro-choice" rhetoric isn't just anti-life it's also anti-freedom and the sheer sneaky manipulative forms of it make it so dangerous, and she's so glad she had good friends who helped her see that, blah blah. Wayward prodigal slips but comes back to the fold will revitalize her brand.
posted by Drastic at 11:46 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Naw. She'll lie low for a suitable period of time, then creep back in after appropriate noises about how she's had a good hard think and realized that so-called "pro-choice" rhetoric isn't just anti-life it's also anti-freedom and the sheer sneaky manipulative forms of it make it so dangerous, and she's so glad she had good friends who helped her see that, blah blah. Wayward prodigal slips but comes back to the fold will revitalize her brand.
posted by Drastic at 11:46 AM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sorry, but seen from afar, the low participation at US elections is really the main issue.
This is a really, really good point, and I'm going to try to keep it in mind.
I've been known to say in the past that democracy isn't necessarily any better than other systems at picking good leaders, but at least when you get bad ones, you can kick them out. Like, voting isn't really a good way of selecting a government, because most voters just don't know what they're doing, but it's better than an armed revolution as a way of getting rid of a government.
Maybe 2018 will be the test of that principle. Maybe this is actually the moment democracy was built for, and it will do its job, as it has from time to time in the past.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:47 AM on March 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
This is a really, really good point, and I'm going to try to keep it in mind.
I've been known to say in the past that democracy isn't necessarily any better than other systems at picking good leaders, but at least when you get bad ones, you can kick them out. Like, voting isn't really a good way of selecting a government, because most voters just don't know what they're doing, but it's better than an armed revolution as a way of getting rid of a government.
Maybe 2018 will be the test of that principle. Maybe this is actually the moment democracy was built for, and it will do its job, as it has from time to time in the past.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:47 AM on March 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
One interesting thing is that the UK electronics ban excludes the ME3 airlines (which run a crap-ton of flights to the UK), but the US ban includes them. It's a bit odd.
posted by zachlipton at 11:50 AM on March 21, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 11:50 AM on March 21, 2017
Maybe I'm totally wrong, and an armed revolution is the only way, but couldn't you guys just try voting before you get all militant??
Gutting of the VRA, Voter ID, thousands of closed voting locations in minority neighborhoods, reduced early voting. Beyond winning the popular vote, a shit ton of people who wanted to vote couldn't. Protecting and fighting for our coalition to be able to vote is the most important thing and while armed conflict may not be justified right now, just about anything constitutional regardless of norms is needed.
posted by chris24 at 11:52 AM on March 21, 2017 [33 favorites]
Gutting of the VRA, Voter ID, thousands of closed voting locations in minority neighborhoods, reduced early voting. Beyond winning the popular vote, a shit ton of people who wanted to vote couldn't. Protecting and fighting for our coalition to be able to vote is the most important thing and while armed conflict may not be justified right now, just about anything constitutional regardless of norms is needed.
posted by chris24 at 11:52 AM on March 21, 2017 [33 favorites]
Yeah, he's pretty much the living embodiment of an '80s "slobs vs. snobs" movie villain, I really wish people would push that harder.
TED MCGINLEY FOR SUPREME COURT JUSTICE
posted by murphy slaw at 11:55 AM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
TED MCGINLEY FOR SUPREME COURT JUSTICE
posted by murphy slaw at 11:55 AM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
I think here's our problem.
Yeah, that's cited in that "the people will clamor for a leader who can sweep it all away. Many of them already do" link. It's definitely a huge part of the problem. But it is from 2015, and the situation might be a little different now.
Since I really think that the "low participation is the problem" point is a good insight (not that I didn't know our turnout was low, but I hadn't thought about its significance in that way), this article offers a ray of hope for democracy, along those lines...
How Donald Trump Is Reviving American Democracy
Yeah, that's cited in that "the people will clamor for a leader who can sweep it all away. Many of them already do" link. It's definitely a huge part of the problem. But it is from 2015, and the situation might be a little different now.
Since I really think that the "low participation is the problem" point is a good insight (not that I didn't know our turnout was low, but I hadn't thought about its significance in that way), this article offers a ray of hope for democracy, along those lines...
How Donald Trump Is Reviving American Democracy
There are two ways to look at the effect of Donald Trump’s presidency on American democracy. One is that he is a menace to the republic: that his attacks on journalists, federal judges, and constitutional norms undermine the rule of law. The other is that he is the greatest thing to happen to America’s civic and political ecosystem in decades.posted by OnceUponATime at 11:55 AM on March 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
These views are not mutually exclusive. In fact, they are causally related. The president’s attacks on established institutions have triggered a systemic immune response in the body politic, producing a surge in engagement among his opponents (and also his fans).
...
But now millions of people, once cynical bystanders, are participating earnestly. In mass marches and packed congressional town meetings, Americans have taken vocal stands for inclusion. At airports and campuses and street corners they have swarmed in defense of Muslim and undocumented neighbors. Membership in the ACLU and the League of Women Voters has swelled, as have subscriptions to leading newspapers.
A public service announcement: today is very much the last chance to call your Representative and implore them to vote against the AHCA, especially if you are represented by a Republican. You can see where your GOP rep currently stands on the NYT whip count. If they're opposed, call them up anyway to help ensure they stay opposed.
posted by zachlipton at 11:56 AM on March 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:56 AM on March 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
soren_lorenson, that article is shocking. As I was reading it, I was wondering what other sort of regime younger people who are losing faith in democracy would prefer, and was sure it would turn out to be socialism. "Have the army rule" was not remotely on my radar.
posted by HotToddy at 11:57 AM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 11:57 AM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
democracy would prefer, and was sure it would turn out to be socialism
Socialism and democracy aren't mutually exclusive and most American socialists are democratic socialists. Not a whole lot of Marxist-Leninists in the US, really.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:01 PM on March 21, 2017 [21 favorites]
Socialism and democracy aren't mutually exclusive and most American socialists are democratic socialists. Not a whole lot of Marxist-Leninists in the US, really.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:01 PM on March 21, 2017 [21 favorites]
I live in one of the most trusting countries in the world, and I have to hand in my voter registration receipt when I vote. It is not a big deal. It is managed on the municipal level, but it is regulated nationally. I know the context is different in the US, and I understand solutions must be different. But still, it must be possible to get more people out.
At the last national election here, 85,8 % of the population voted. EU elections are more comparable to US elections, and here 72 % participated. You can do it too!
posted by mumimor at 12:02 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
At the last national election here, 85,8 % of the population voted. EU elections are more comparable to US elections, and here 72 % participated. You can do it too!
posted by mumimor at 12:02 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
but at least when you get bad ones, you can kick them out.
Yeah, we need a new mechanism to make that easier and more of a real check on power. Popular referenda to kick out presidents ought to be baked into the process so the public has veto power and can quickly mobilize to affect change when a pol cynically lies about their real agenda.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:03 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, we need a new mechanism to make that easier and more of a real check on power. Popular referenda to kick out presidents ought to be baked into the process so the public has veto power and can quickly mobilize to affect change when a pol cynically lies about their real agenda.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:03 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Election Day needs to be a national holiday.
posted by INFJ at 12:05 PM on March 21, 2017 [47 favorites]
posted by INFJ at 12:05 PM on March 21, 2017 [47 favorites]
Counting Americans: A new Mideast box on census is sensitive
Commentary in the Guardian by Arwa Mahdawi: I’m a bit brown. But in America I’m white. Not for much longer
posted by XMLicious at 12:08 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
Commentary in the Guardian by Arwa Mahdawi: I’m a bit brown. But in America I’m white. Not for much longer
posted by XMLicious at 12:08 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
I live in one of the most trusting countries in the world, and I have to hand in my voter registration receipt when I vote. It is not a big deal. It is managed on the municipal level, but it is regulated nationally. I know the context is different in the US, and I understand solutions must be different. But still, it must be possible to get more people out.
Here's the thing, we're trying. There's many, many more people with vast sums of money opposing us and making it harder to vote every day. It's not so simple as, go vote. Do you live in a small, homogeneous Nordic country with excellent public transportation? The United States is not that. It's hard to get underserved populations to vote. To get them properly registered. To pay all the money they have to pay just to excercise their right to vote. To get them to risk their livelihoods taking the time off their blue collar jobs to vote, which in many places means being forced to stand in line for eight to twelve hours, forgoing a day's pay. Just to physically get them to the booth when they don't have cars or any form of reliable transportation.
"Hurrhurr, go vote, we can do it here", is comically naive and vastly misunderstanding the scale of the problem of voting access in the United States.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:09 PM on March 21, 2017 [81 favorites]
Here's the thing, we're trying. There's many, many more people with vast sums of money opposing us and making it harder to vote every day. It's not so simple as, go vote. Do you live in a small, homogeneous Nordic country with excellent public transportation? The United States is not that. It's hard to get underserved populations to vote. To get them properly registered. To pay all the money they have to pay just to excercise their right to vote. To get them to risk their livelihoods taking the time off their blue collar jobs to vote, which in many places means being forced to stand in line for eight to twelve hours, forgoing a day's pay. Just to physically get them to the booth when they don't have cars or any form of reliable transportation.
"Hurrhurr, go vote, we can do it here", is comically naive and vastly misunderstanding the scale of the problem of voting access in the United States.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:09 PM on March 21, 2017 [81 favorites]
chris24: "just about anything constitutional regardless of norms is needed."
"Constitutionality" is nothing but norms. The ACA would not have been constitutional at the outset of the nation, and now it (quite likely) is. Basically everything about the idea of "constitutionality" is subjective to the time and culture. So, your statement is basically, "Do anything within the norms regardless of norms."
This may seem like I'm trying to score rhetorical points, but I think this gets down to a more serious idea, which is that we all have to ask ourselves individually and as a polity what our limit on fighting is. Vaguely gesturing to "constitutionality" as if it solves anything is a mistake--constitutionality is going to be very quickly shifting under our feet, and doesn't prescribe a solid course of action. We have to rely on an independent source of morality.
posted by TypographicalError at 12:09 PM on March 21, 2017
"Constitutionality" is nothing but norms. The ACA would not have been constitutional at the outset of the nation, and now it (quite likely) is. Basically everything about the idea of "constitutionality" is subjective to the time and culture. So, your statement is basically, "Do anything within the norms regardless of norms."
This may seem like I'm trying to score rhetorical points, but I think this gets down to a more serious idea, which is that we all have to ask ourselves individually and as a polity what our limit on fighting is. Vaguely gesturing to "constitutionality" as if it solves anything is a mistake--constitutionality is going to be very quickly shifting under our feet, and doesn't prescribe a solid course of action. We have to rely on an independent source of morality.
posted by TypographicalError at 12:09 PM on March 21, 2017
Interesting theory about giving Ivanka a West Wing office and security clearance and such, which I've just been handed by one of my correspondents: what if it's a way to ensure she's covered by executive privilege so she isn't called to testify before Congress on anything?
posted by zachlipton at 12:14 PM on March 21, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:14 PM on March 21, 2017 [32 favorites]
Constitutionality" is nothing but norms
I said constitutional vs legal because some forms of protest may cross the legality line in some people's minds but my interpretation of rights to assembly and speech is pretty damn broad.
posted by chris24 at 12:16 PM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
I said constitutional vs legal because some forms of protest may cross the legality line in some people's minds but my interpretation of rights to assembly and speech is pretty damn broad.
posted by chris24 at 12:16 PM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
"Hurrhurr, go vote, we can do it here", is comically naive and vastly misunderstanding the scale of the problem of voting access in the United States.
I know, I truly do. But except for the Howard Dean 50 state vision, it has been as if Democrats had given up on that challenge. Now, there is definitely a change, and I hope you all succeed.
(Also, it's not as if God came down and gave us our well-managed and serviced welfare societies for free. There were huge struggles during the early 20th century to get here, including workers being shot to death, imprisoned or expelled, and there are still powers who try to cut down public transportation and welfare. The fight never ends).
posted by mumimor at 12:21 PM on March 21, 2017 [23 favorites]
I know, I truly do. But except for the Howard Dean 50 state vision, it has been as if Democrats had given up on that challenge. Now, there is definitely a change, and I hope you all succeed.
(Also, it's not as if God came down and gave us our well-managed and serviced welfare societies for free. There were huge struggles during the early 20th century to get here, including workers being shot to death, imprisoned or expelled, and there are still powers who try to cut down public transportation and welfare. The fight never ends).
posted by mumimor at 12:21 PM on March 21, 2017 [23 favorites]
what if it's a way to ensure she's covered by executive privilege so she isn't called to testify before Congress on anything?
If her testimony was required for serious reasons, it wouldn't work. They say no because executive privilege, it goes to court, a court rules against her. Ken Starr knows the arguments, he can be the prosecutor if he's still alive.
as I understand the concept it's not absolute and also is more of an accepted courtesy than an ironclad right, allowed to presidents only as long as they don't push it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:23 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
If her testimony was required for serious reasons, it wouldn't work. They say no because executive privilege, it goes to court, a court rules against her. Ken Starr knows the arguments, he can be the prosecutor if he's still alive.
as I understand the concept it's not absolute and also is more of an accepted courtesy than an ironclad right, allowed to presidents only as long as they don't push it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:23 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
"Constitutionality" is nothing but norms. The ACA would not have been constitutional at the outset of the nation, and now it (quite likely) is. Basically everything about the idea of "constitutionality" is subjective to the time and culture. So, your statement is basically, "Do anything within the norms regardless of norms."
This is just really quite wrong. Constitutionality is based in the text and in the history of precedent. Most of what transformed what would not have been constitutional before into what is constitutional today are the due process and equal protection of law clauses of the 14th amendment. The 14th amendment transformed constitutional law when it became apparent to judges that they would have to incorporate the bill of rights into the 14th amendment for the constitution to have coherence. Constitutionality is not just norms, but flows from rational interpretation of the text of the constitution in light of the historical context. Thurgood Marshall was not Thrasymachus!
posted by dis_integration at 12:25 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
This is just really quite wrong. Constitutionality is based in the text and in the history of precedent. Most of what transformed what would not have been constitutional before into what is constitutional today are the due process and equal protection of law clauses of the 14th amendment. The 14th amendment transformed constitutional law when it became apparent to judges that they would have to incorporate the bill of rights into the 14th amendment for the constitution to have coherence. Constitutionality is not just norms, but flows from rational interpretation of the text of the constitution in light of the historical context. Thurgood Marshall was not Thrasymachus!
posted by dis_integration at 12:25 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
A public service announcement: today is very much the last chance to call your Representative and implore them to vote against the AHCA, especially if you are represented by a Republican. You can see where your GOP rep currently stands on the NYT whip count. If they're opposed, call them up anyway to help ensure they stay opposed.
Done and done! Finally, an instance where my call counts, might do some good, and isn't preaching to the staunch Democrat choir. My Senators are both mega-Dem, but my Congressdude is a semi-Trumpy Republican ASSHOLE who hasn't expressed a public position on AHCA, possibly because he represents a very spread-out and poorer than average district. Extremely heavy level of Medicaid participation hereabouts. It'll be interesting (if probably unsurprisingly awful) to see how he votes on this one.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:35 PM on March 21, 2017 [17 favorites]
Done and done! Finally, an instance where my call counts, might do some good, and isn't preaching to the staunch Democrat choir. My Senators are both mega-Dem, but my Congressdude is a semi-Trumpy Republican ASSHOLE who hasn't expressed a public position on AHCA, possibly because he represents a very spread-out and poorer than average district. Extremely heavy level of Medicaid participation hereabouts. It'll be interesting (if probably unsurprisingly awful) to see how he votes on this one.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:35 PM on March 21, 2017 [17 favorites]
You could mention the time Gorsuch ruled in favor of a trucking corporation to allow them to fire a driver who abandoned his trailer after waiting for hours in below zero temperatures for help promised by the company that never came and was freezing to death.
Any good Republican knows that in this situation one must vigorously tug on one's bootstraps until sufficient heat is generated.
It's hard to get underserved populations to vote. To get them properly registered. To pay all the money they have to pay just to excercise their right to vote. To get them to risk their livelihoods taking the time off their blue collar jobs to vote, which in many places means being forced to stand in line for eight to twelve hours, forgoing a day's pay.
Not to mention that many voter ID laws essentially force people to take a second day of standing in line and losing that day's pay. That's a big ask for someone who already doubts the power of their vote.
posted by Gaz Errant at 12:38 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Any good Republican knows that in this situation one must vigorously tug on one's bootstraps until sufficient heat is generated.
It's hard to get underserved populations to vote. To get them properly registered. To pay all the money they have to pay just to excercise their right to vote. To get them to risk their livelihoods taking the time off their blue collar jobs to vote, which in many places means being forced to stand in line for eight to twelve hours, forgoing a day's pay.
Not to mention that many voter ID laws essentially force people to take a second day of standing in line and losing that day's pay. That's a big ask for someone who already doubts the power of their vote.
posted by Gaz Errant at 12:38 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
uh, guys, I think here's our problem.
The thing is, if you suggest that losing faith is the problem, you have to ask why people lost faith, and then you might discover a that some people are actively undermining that faith.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 12:41 PM on March 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
The thing is, if you suggest that losing faith is the problem, you have to ask why people lost faith, and then you might discover a that some people are actively undermining that faith.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 12:41 PM on March 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
The National Review's David French provides a much-needed laugh today (via Kevin Drum):
The laugh, of course, is that the conservative tolerance for -- to say nothing of dependence on -- dishonesty is anything new.
The latter sentence provides a confirmation from the conservative side of the oft-quoted cleek's law: Today’s conservatism is the opposite of what liberals want today, updated daily..
posted by Gelatin at 12:41 PM on March 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
The tweets, however, are exposing something else in many of Trump’s friends and supporters — an extremely high tolerance for dishonesty and an oft-enthusiastic willingness to defend sheer nonsense....I’ve watched Christian friends laugh hysterically at Trump’s tweets, positively delighted that they cause fits of rage on the other side.
The laugh, of course, is that the conservative tolerance for -- to say nothing of dependence on -- dishonesty is anything new.
The latter sentence provides a confirmation from the conservative side of the oft-quoted cleek's law: Today’s conservatism is the opposite of what liberals want today, updated daily..
posted by Gelatin at 12:41 PM on March 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
Not to mention that many voter ID laws essentially force people to take a second day of standing in line and losing that day's pay
Some studies indicate this doesn't have as much effect as you might think on minority voter turnout, though. This is surprising, but good news, when you think about it!
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:47 PM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
Some studies indicate this doesn't have as much effect as you might think on minority voter turnout, though. This is surprising, but good news, when you think about it!
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:47 PM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
If you're like me and you really need a cathartic break, may I recommend Jon Oliver's show Last Week Tonight on HBO. For me he provides the cathartic break that The Daily Show did for me during the Bush years.
There was just something about Oliver's reaction to the video of Trump refusing Merkel's hand (crazy shrieking along the lines of shake her fucking hand, you fucking awful weird man, just fuck no) that was crazily satisfying.
Although he tricked me into watching Trump take the oath of office. It wasn't enough that a CGI zebra holding a sign reading stop was included in the footage.
posted by angrycat at 12:53 PM on March 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
There was just something about Oliver's reaction to the video of Trump refusing Merkel's hand (crazy shrieking along the lines of shake her fucking hand, you fucking awful weird man, just fuck no) that was crazily satisfying.
Although he tricked me into watching Trump take the oath of office. It wasn't enough that a CGI zebra holding a sign reading stop was included in the footage.
posted by angrycat at 12:53 PM on March 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
Constitutionality is not just norms, but flows from rational interpretation of the text of the constitution in light of the historical context.
I'm glad you believe in the constitution in this way, but I disagree. It's just a piece of paper that is a useful fig leaf to implementing a set of norms. The set of norms generally corresponds to that piece of paper, but where it doesn't, we ignore the paper (eg war powers, commerce clause, emoluments, etc.). This is already too much of a derail, so let's agree that "constitutionality" is a slippery concept, which is all that my original point was anyhow.
posted by TypographicalError at 12:53 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm glad you believe in the constitution in this way, but I disagree. It's just a piece of paper that is a useful fig leaf to implementing a set of norms. The set of norms generally corresponds to that piece of paper, but where it doesn't, we ignore the paper (eg war powers, commerce clause, emoluments, etc.). This is already too much of a derail, so let's agree that "constitutionality" is a slippery concept, which is all that my original point was anyhow.
posted by TypographicalError at 12:53 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Seriously, anybody who thinks turning an area like mine (and there are many of them) blue -- a sprawling, thinly populated, mostly rural, mostly poor with occasional pockets of uber-rich, multi-generation red stronghold in every non-Presidential/Senate race, etc. -- is merely a matter of having enough pluck and can-do spirit is welcome to roll up their sleeves and dig right in.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:56 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:56 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Same bundle of corrupt fascism and illegitimate power whatever you call it. GOP does little to hide that.
posted by Artw at 1:01 PM on March 21, 2017
posted by Artw at 1:01 PM on March 21, 2017
Same bundle of corrupt fascism and illegitimate power whatever you call it. GOP does little to hide that.
Well, maybe, but the so-called "liberal media" lets Republicans simultaneously denigrate Democrats with their snide little "Democrat Presidents" appellation -- memo to NPR: You should set a policy that you will not air audio of any politician using that insult -- and enjoy a complimentary nickname that even the media uses.
The style should be "Democratic" and "Republican," period.
posted by Gelatin at 1:05 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well, maybe, but the so-called "liberal media" lets Republicans simultaneously denigrate Democrats with their snide little "Democrat Presidents" appellation -- memo to NPR: You should set a policy that you will not air audio of any politician using that insult -- and enjoy a complimentary nickname that even the media uses.
The style should be "Democratic" and "Republican," period.
posted by Gelatin at 1:05 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
"And then there's mutton-busting. And I think my children still have PTSD from mutton-busting. Mutton-busting, as you know, uh, comes sort of like bronco busting for adults. You take a poor little kid. You find a sheep. And you attach the one to the other. And see how long they can hold on." -- Gorsuch replying to some tough questioning by Sen. Cruz
posted by cybertaur1 at 1:08 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by cybertaur1 at 1:08 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trump Sics Lawyers on Teen for Making Silly Site Where Kittens Punch Him
posted by porn in the woods at 1:09 PM on March 21, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by porn in the woods at 1:09 PM on March 21, 2017 [27 favorites]
The ACHA plan for "repeal and replace" is worse than a repeal-only strategy, Fewer Americans Would Be Insured With G.O.P. Plan Than With Simple Repeal:
The Republican bill would actually result in more people being uninsured than if Obamacare were simply repealed. Getting rid of the major coverage provisions and regulations of Obamacare would cost 23 million Americans their health insurance, according to another recent C.B.O. report. In other words, 1 million more Americans would have health insurance with a clean repeal than with the Republican replacement plan, according to C.B.O. estimates.posted by peeedro at 1:10 PM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
...
The people who would end up without health insurance are slightly different in the two cases. The current bill would cause more people to lose employer insurance, while a straight repeal bill would most likely cause more people who buy their own coverage to become uninsured. A simple repeal would be worse for Americans with pre-existing conditions, but the current bill would be worse for older Americans who are relatively healthy. Both approaches would lead to major reductions in the number of Americans covered by Medicaid
Pronounce GOP as a word as with George Oscar "GOB" Bluth II and make that the insult. Does GOP rhyme with "cop" or "nope"?
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 1:12 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 1:12 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
witchen: "if they continue to claim "Party of Lincoln," they need to be reminded of the Southern Strategy that established them just a few decades ago"
Every time I hear a Republican claim the GOP is the Party of Lincoln, the snarkier part of my brain wants to comment: "Sure, the GOP is the Party of Lincoln in the sense that, just like Lincoln, they don't really want African Americans to be slaves but also that they definitely don't want them to have the vote."
posted by mhum at 1:16 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Every time I hear a Republican claim the GOP is the Party of Lincoln, the snarkier part of my brain wants to comment: "Sure, the GOP is the Party of Lincoln in the sense that, just like Lincoln, they don't really want African Americans to be slaves but also that they definitely don't want them to have the vote."
posted by mhum at 1:16 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm going to have to see some evidence for that first part, mhum.
posted by downtohisturtles at 1:19 PM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by downtohisturtles at 1:19 PM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
hey we could pronounce GOP like "Goap" which is the name of a goetic demon, ha ha, that'd stick it to them! let's just double check with Wikipedia
okay never mind according to a 15th century German grimoire Goap "provides medical care for women" so this isn't going to work
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:19 PM on March 21, 2017 [26 favorites]
okay never mind according to a 15th century German grimoire Goap "provides medical care for women" so this isn't going to work
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:19 PM on March 21, 2017 [26 favorites]
Angela Merkel and Japan's Shinzo Abe make subtle digs at Donald Trump at German tech event (video)
"In times when we have to argue with many about free trade, open borders and democratic values, it's a good sign that Japan and Germany no longer argue."
posted by chris24 at 1:23 PM on March 21, 2017 [36 favorites]
"In times when we have to argue with many about free trade, open borders and democratic values, it's a good sign that Japan and Germany no longer argue."
posted by chris24 at 1:23 PM on March 21, 2017 [36 favorites]
downtohisturtles: "I'm going to have to see some evidence for that first part, mhum."
Yeah, touché. I realized that as I was typing it out that through the loophole in the 13th amendment ("except as punishment for a crime") plus differential treatment by the criminal justice system plus private prisons, we end up in a place that's not that far away from Slavery by Another Name.
posted by mhum at 1:24 PM on March 21, 2017
Yeah, touché. I realized that as I was typing it out that through the loophole in the 13th amendment ("except as punishment for a crime") plus differential treatment by the criminal justice system plus private prisons, we end up in a place that's not that far away from Slavery by Another Name.
posted by mhum at 1:24 PM on March 21, 2017
The Guardian: No African citizens granted visas for African trade summit in California
An annual African trade summit in California had no African attendees this year after at least 60 people were denied visas, according to event leaders.posted by monospace at 1:25 PM on March 21, 2017 [28 favorites]
The African Global Economic and Development Summit, a three-day conference at the University of Southern California (USC), typically brings delegations from across Africa to meet with business leaders in the US in an effort to foster partnerships. But this year, every single African citizen who requested a visa was rejected, according to organizer Mary Flowers.
“I don’t know if it’s Trump or if it’s the fact that the embassies that have been discriminating for a long time see this as an opportunity, because of talk of the travel ban, to blatantly reject everyone,” Flowers said in an interview on Monday.
I've always called them the Repugnant Ones
posted by oozy rat in a sanitary zoo at 1:26 PM on March 21, 2017
posted by oozy rat in a sanitary zoo at 1:26 PM on March 21, 2017
Okla. state senator accused of trying to have sex with teen boy now plans to resign, attorney says
Shortey was charged Thursday with three felonies: Soliciting the prostitution of a minor; transportation for the purpose of prostitution; and prostitution within 1,000 feet of a church. Blau said Shortey is scheduled for arraignment on Friday, when a judge will automatically enter a not-guilty plea on his behalf as part of a procedural process.
The FBI is also investigating human trafficking charges.
posted by futz at 1:27 PM on March 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
Shortey was charged Thursday with three felonies: Soliciting the prostitution of a minor; transportation for the purpose of prostitution; and prostitution within 1,000 feet of a church. Blau said Shortey is scheduled for arraignment on Friday, when a judge will automatically enter a not-guilty plea on his behalf as part of a procedural process.
The FBI is also investigating human trafficking charges.
posted by futz at 1:27 PM on March 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
I want to bookmark around 4:19:50 ET when Gorsuch looks off to the left and his expression changes from a smirk to "oh, Franken is not going to take the performative smiley we're-all-guys-here non-answers". There's a GIF in that.
posted by sylvanshine at 1:27 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by sylvanshine at 1:27 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
From SCOTUSblog's liveblogging of the confirmation hearing:
Franken: How have your views on marriage equality changed since 2004?
Gorsuch: My personal views don't matter.
Franken: It is settled law.
Gorsuch: It is not.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 1:27 PM on March 21, 2017 [86 favorites]
Franken: How have your views on marriage equality changed since 2004?
Gorsuch: My personal views don't matter.
Franken: It is settled law.
Gorsuch: It is not.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 1:27 PM on March 21, 2017 [86 favorites]
"She's been feeding the bigots who voted for Trump the racist and misogynist tirades they love, they've been eating it up, and she's probably gotten to the point where she thought she had actual influence and respect. Uh, no.
What I doubt she realizes is that she's getting rewarded not for her individual perspective, but for being a young, white, conventionally attractive woman who mouths the reactionary garbage that the worst people in Western society are hungry to hear because it validates their own beliefs. If she ceased to tell her audience exactly what they wanted to hear -- not to mention became significantly less pretty, thin, or young -- all that adulation and all those opportunities would disappear like a puff of smoke."
That certainly proved Ayn Rand in The Fountainhead right.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:27 PM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
What I doubt she realizes is that she's getting rewarded not for her individual perspective, but for being a young, white, conventionally attractive woman who mouths the reactionary garbage that the worst people in Western society are hungry to hear because it validates their own beliefs. If she ceased to tell her audience exactly what they wanted to hear -- not to mention became significantly less pretty, thin, or young -- all that adulation and all those opportunities would disappear like a puff of smoke."
That certainly proved Ayn Rand in The Fountainhead right.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:27 PM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Former Trump aide Manafort hires crisis communications firm
posted by futz at 1:31 PM on March 21, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by futz at 1:31 PM on March 21, 2017 [23 favorites]
Bank that lent $300m to Trump linked to Russian money laundering scam
posted by futz at 1:33 PM on March 21, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by futz at 1:33 PM on March 21, 2017 [34 favorites]
But what's the difference between that and Hillary giving some perfunctory speeches for hundreds of thousands of dollars from Goldman Sachs?
Do you think you could come up with maybe a few ways in which a country with it's military and everything might just be a slightly different animal than Goldman Sachs?
posted by VTX at 1:33 PM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
Do you think you could come up with maybe a few ways in which a country with it's military and everything might just be a slightly different animal than Goldman Sachs?
posted by VTX at 1:33 PM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
Jpfed: I know that's what SCOTUSblog's transcript said but I heard him say "It absolutely is settled law"? It's rewindable on YouTube
Franken: It's settled law.
Gorsuch: It is absolutely settled law. There's ongoing litigation about its impact, and its application right now, and I cannot begin to share my personal views without -- [cut off by Franken]
posted by cybertaur1 at 1:33 PM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
Franken: It's settled law.
Gorsuch: It is absolutely settled law. There's ongoing litigation about its impact, and its application right now, and I cannot begin to share my personal views without -- [cut off by Franken]
posted by cybertaur1 at 1:33 PM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
So Andy Puzder doesn't get to be Secretary of Labor and now he's losing his CEO gig.
haha.gif
posted by zachlipton at 1:38 PM on March 21, 2017 [21 favorites]
haha.gif
posted by zachlipton at 1:38 PM on March 21, 2017 [21 favorites]
GOP = Group Of Pricks
posted by kokaku at 1:38 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 1:38 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
GOP = Grabbers of Pussies
posted by mosk at 1:39 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by mosk at 1:39 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
Do British MPs constantly make stupid cricket metaphors or w/e, or is everything-is-sports a particularly American disease?
posted by theodolite at 1:40 PM on March 21, 2017
posted by theodolite at 1:40 PM on March 21, 2017
Ann Coulter is doing RT with "common working man" Ed Schultz. Coulter: "Russia is not our enemy. Russia is our natural ally against radical Islam."
posted by octobersurprise at 1:43 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by octobersurprise at 1:43 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Dow slides nearly 240 as fear returns to market
Lots of quotes from bankers demonstrating that even though you make millions you don't need to be smart. But this one made me LOL: "Trump is trying to be the CEO president. That doesn't work in politics," said KC Mathews, chief investment officer with UMB Bank. "Right now, it's all about hope."
You don't say.
posted by mumimor at 1:43 PM on March 21, 2017 [24 favorites]
Lots of quotes from bankers demonstrating that even though you make millions you don't need to be smart. But this one made me LOL: "Trump is trying to be the CEO president. That doesn't work in politics," said KC Mathews, chief investment officer with UMB Bank. "Right now, it's all about hope."
You don't say.
posted by mumimor at 1:43 PM on March 21, 2017 [24 favorites]
is everything-is-sports a particularly American disease?
Yes, especially the concept of the "horse race."
posted by monospace at 1:43 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yes, especially the concept of the "horse race."
posted by monospace at 1:43 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Saying that being a Senate Page is an experience that every single young person should have is one of the weirdest, most out of touch things I've heard in a while.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:46 PM on March 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:46 PM on March 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
If you live in a Republican district and don’t see your rep. on this list of Rs who are opposed / strongly opposed to the AHCA, given them a call! (It’s a pretty small list.)
posted by Going To Maine at 1:48 PM on March 21, 2017
posted by Going To Maine at 1:48 PM on March 21, 2017
What I doubt she realizes is that she's getting rewarded not for her individual perspective, but for being a young, white, conventionally attractive woman who mouths the reactionary garbage that the worst people in Western society are hungry to hear because it validates their own beliefs.
If neither she nor the others of her ilk (Megyn Kelly, Ann Coulter, etc...) have never in their lives uttered the words "I'm different from those other girls" I will eat my foot.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:48 PM on March 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
If neither she nor the others of her ilk (Megyn Kelly, Ann Coulter, etc...) have never in their lives uttered the words "I'm different from those other girls" I will eat my foot.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:48 PM on March 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
I hadn't watched the Gorsuch hearing until just now and Jesus Christ what a smarmy asshole he is. Ugh.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:49 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:49 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Smart, well prepared questions are being asked, without the usual me,me, me grandstanding. Calm, complicated responses are being presented, without changing the topic or giving a fluff answer. No matter your political inclinations, you can learn so much from these proceedings.
time for me to revive my petition for a "roll eyes and make jerking off gesture" emoji
posted by indubitable at 1:53 PM on March 21, 2017 [28 favorites]
time for me to revive my petition for a "roll eyes and make jerking off gesture" emoji
posted by indubitable at 1:53 PM on March 21, 2017 [28 favorites]
Look at these congenial white men talking about heaven and hell and salvation together. They're not raising their voices. They're not using any vulgarity. Why can't all politicians be like this again?
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:54 PM on March 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:54 PM on March 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
Honestly, today would be a good day for every single person to call their representatives, no matter who they are, and state their opposition to the AHCA.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:54 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:54 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
If you've got reps on the House Oversight Committee, get out those postcards!
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:56 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:56 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, the recipe for success as a "neutral" telemedia journalist these days is basically:
2 cups conventionally good looks
1 cup liquid both-siderism
1/4 cup diced sports metaphor (horse race or baseball is best, but any sport easily understood by an eighth grader will do in a pinch)
1 tbsp insipid at the end of the day
1 tsp extract of lack of follow-up
1/4 cup grated cheese
Combine dry ingredients in a black pot (or kettle). Slowly drizzle in both-siderism and lack of follow up, while stirring the pot. Smother with cheese. Set out under Klieg lights to fester for 2-3 minutes, or until the next commercial break, whichever is sooner.
Serves millions.
posted by darkstar at 1:57 PM on March 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
2 cups conventionally good looks
1 cup liquid both-siderism
1/4 cup diced sports metaphor (horse race or baseball is best, but any sport easily understood by an eighth grader will do in a pinch)
1 tbsp insipid at the end of the day
1 tsp extract of lack of follow-up
1/4 cup grated cheese
Combine dry ingredients in a black pot (or kettle). Slowly drizzle in both-siderism and lack of follow up, while stirring the pot. Smother with cheese. Set out under Klieg lights to fester for 2-3 minutes, or until the next commercial break, whichever is sooner.
Serves millions.
posted by darkstar at 1:57 PM on March 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
Gorsuch talks about himself like a grizzly voiceover talks about the new Ford F-150
posted by theodolite at 2:00 PM on March 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 2:00 PM on March 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
Ann Coulter is doing RT with "common working man" Ed Schultz.
blaargh. I thought she had rotted away. Whats with these evil gollum type people who only turn out when their guy is in front, so they can lick his behind?
posted by mumimor at 2:01 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
blaargh. I thought she had rotted away. Whats with these evil gollum type people who only turn out when their guy is in front, so they can lick his behind?
posted by mumimor at 2:01 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Franken: How have your views on marriage equality changed since 2004?
Gorsuch: My personal views don't matter.
Franken: It is settled law.
Gorsuch: It is not.
A person that works in a separate room from me, but I often have to visit to check out equipment from often listens to conservative radio. This morning they were going on about how Roe v. Wade is "settled law" just like how the inability of women to own personal property or to vote were in the past. That is, it's the law now, but won't be in the future.
(barf)
posted by ArgentCorvid at 2:03 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Gorsuch: My personal views don't matter.
Franken: It is settled law.
Gorsuch: It is not.
A person that works in a separate room from me, but I often have to visit to check out equipment from often listens to conservative radio. This morning they were going on about how Roe v. Wade is "settled law" just like how the inability of women to own personal property or to vote were in the past. That is, it's the law now, but won't be in the future.
(barf)
posted by ArgentCorvid at 2:03 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
blaargh. I thought she had rotted away. Whats with these evil gollum type people who only turn out when their guy is in front, so they can lick his behind?
OK that's about 10 different mental images I didn't need in my brain this afternoon.
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:06 PM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
OK that's about 10 different mental images I didn't need in my brain this afternoon.
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:06 PM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
“What you’re arguing then is the FBI and the Justice Department are mistaken for taking the president literally because they don’t speak Americanese?”
i have it on very good authority that even cats and dogs can read it
posted by pyramid termite at 2:11 PM on March 21, 2017
i have it on very good authority that even cats and dogs can read it
posted by pyramid termite at 2:11 PM on March 21, 2017
If you live in a Republican district and don’t see your rep. on this list of Rs who are opposed / strongly opposed to the AHCA, given them a call! (It’s a pretty small list.)
I would especially call your rep if they are on that list, to ensure they stay there. If this thing passes, it's going to be because enough of the folks in the no column are really "no, but I'll vote yes if you need me." Calling to help ensure they stay opposed is especially useful.
Even if they're opposed for bad reasons (e.g. they want to repeal all of the ACA), I don't see how calling to ask them to vote no on the AHCA is going to hurt. If they're that far to the right of this bill, they aren't going to support anything better anyway.
posted by zachlipton at 2:13 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
I would especially call your rep if they are on that list, to ensure they stay there. If this thing passes, it's going to be because enough of the folks in the no column are really "no, but I'll vote yes if you need me." Calling to help ensure they stay opposed is especially useful.
Even if they're opposed for bad reasons (e.g. they want to repeal all of the ACA), I don't see how calling to ask them to vote no on the AHCA is going to hurt. If they're that far to the right of this bill, they aren't going to support anything better anyway.
posted by zachlipton at 2:13 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
ArgentCovid that is sickening. So nice how they're framing it with women's rights gains, as if women will be more free without Roe. Fucking hell.
posted by agregoli at 2:14 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 2:14 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
It also means "It's settled law women can own property now...but hey, things could change, haw haw haw!"
Fuckers.
posted by emjaybee at 2:15 PM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
Fuckers.
posted by emjaybee at 2:15 PM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
Note that the Dow is over 20,000. 200 points is only 1% at this point, that could be simple noise. If it falls 500 points in a day that's something to talk about.
posted by Justinian at 2:16 PM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 2:16 PM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
time for me to revive my petition for a "roll eyes and make jerking off gesture" emoji
🙄✊🏻🍆
posted by chris24 at 2:16 PM on March 21, 2017 [45 favorites]
🙄✊🏻🍆
posted by chris24 at 2:16 PM on March 21, 2017 [45 favorites]
Just called my reps about the possibility of a shutdown when current funding runs out on April 28. This is something that will hit me financially; I work on public lands, but I am not a government employee. In other words, I don't get back pay when a funding agreement is finally reached. In spite of this, I think a shutdown is preferable to the Trump budget. When talking to Republican staffers, my take-home message was that they should not be willing to force a shutdown and harm small business in order to change the status quo. When talking with Democratic staffers, my take-home point was that Trump's budget is terrible, and I'm willing to accept a loss of income in order to stop it.
Go ahead and call your reps about the issues of the Trump budget and a possible shutdown — we're still early in the game on this. I was the first person to have called my House rep specifically about a possible shutdown. I asked point blank how this stuff would be passed on, i.e., what the spreadsheet they were putting together looked like. The short story is that there was already a field for accepting feedback on the Trump budget. Nothing yet about a shutdown. At my request, the friendly staffer for my House rep created a field in the spreadsheet just for the shutdown. Ask nicely and perhaps the staffer for your rep will do the same!
Get psyched and get on the phone. Staff for mu Republican senators seem to be getting harder to reach. Not sure if anyone else in Arizona has experienced the same. Be persistent.
posted by compartment at 2:24 PM on March 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
Go ahead and call your reps about the issues of the Trump budget and a possible shutdown — we're still early in the game on this. I was the first person to have called my House rep specifically about a possible shutdown. I asked point blank how this stuff would be passed on, i.e., what the spreadsheet they were putting together looked like. The short story is that there was already a field for accepting feedback on the Trump budget. Nothing yet about a shutdown. At my request, the friendly staffer for my House rep created a field in the spreadsheet just for the shutdown. Ask nicely and perhaps the staffer for your rep will do the same!
Get psyched and get on the phone. Staff for mu Republican senators seem to be getting harder to reach. Not sure if anyone else in Arizona has experienced the same. Be persistent.
posted by compartment at 2:24 PM on March 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
futz: ... prostitution within 1,000 feet of a church ...
Wut? As if prostitution alone being against the law wasn't bad enough? And what of separation of church and state? Uuuuughh... Oklahoma.
Yeah, that's my new slogan for the state. Uuuuughh ... Oklahoma.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:26 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
Wut? As if prostitution alone being against the law wasn't bad enough? And what of separation of church and state? Uuuuughh... Oklahoma.
Yeah, that's my new slogan for the state. Uuuuughh ... Oklahoma.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:26 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
America's Most Prominent Anti-Muslim Activist Is Welcome at the White House
Brigitte Gabriel gets a meeting at the White House. Disgusting.
posted by zachlipton at 2:31 PM on March 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
Brigitte Gabriel gets a meeting at the White House. Disgusting.
posted by zachlipton at 2:31 PM on March 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
Jpfed: Franken: How have your views on marriage equality changed since 2004?
Gorsuch: My personal views don't matter.
Franken: It is settled law.
Gorsuch: It is not.
My jaw just dropped at Gorsuch's second comment there, which gave my brain a moment to recover from shock and realize that by putting these two items together, it's even worse.
So is Gorsuch saying that he has something other than personal issues with marriage equality? Yes, please tell us what justification you have. Because other than law, what is there? And to claim the law is not settled means he sees some opening to claw back Obergefell v. Hodges somehow? Even if/when he replaces Scalia (which Chrome refuses to recognize as a real word, which makes me happy in a silly, small way), they're still split 5-4, so what's going to change?
posted by filthy light thief at 2:39 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
Gorsuch: My personal views don't matter.
Franken: It is settled law.
Gorsuch: It is not.
My jaw just dropped at Gorsuch's second comment there, which gave my brain a moment to recover from shock and realize that by putting these two items together, it's even worse.
So is Gorsuch saying that he has something other than personal issues with marriage equality? Yes, please tell us what justification you have. Because other than law, what is there? And to claim the law is not settled means he sees some opening to claw back Obergefell v. Hodges somehow? Even if/when he replaces Scalia (which Chrome refuses to recognize as a real word, which makes me happy in a silly, small way), they're still split 5-4, so what's going to change?
posted by filthy light thief at 2:39 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
> Franken: It is settled law.
> Gorsuch: It is not.
Note that this comment suggests that's a transcription error. ("It is absolutely settled law.")
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:41 PM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
> Gorsuch: It is not.
Note that this comment suggests that's a transcription error. ("It is absolutely settled law.")
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:41 PM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
That's... a pretty dang major transcription error. Big enough that if someone like Fox News made such an error on a different subject we'd be howling about deliberate obfuscation of the truth.
posted by Justinian at 2:45 PM on March 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 2:45 PM on March 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
@filthy light thief, @RedOrGreen, @Justinian
Here's the relevant video
Really seems like a transcription error. I also commented on the SCOTUSBlog to that effect but it hasn't been moderated yet.
posted by cybertaur1 at 2:46 PM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
Here's the relevant video
Really seems like a transcription error. I also commented on the SCOTUSBlog to that effect but it hasn't been moderated yet.
posted by cybertaur1 at 2:46 PM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
That's... a pretty dang major transcription error. Big enough that if someone like Fox News made such an error on a different subject we'd be howling about deliberate obfuscation of the truth.
Well, the difference is, the SCOTUS blog doesn't have a history of shenanigans, at least not that I have heard of.
posted by thelonius at 2:46 PM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, the difference is, the SCOTUS blog doesn't have a history of shenanigans, at least not that I have heard of.
posted by thelonius at 2:46 PM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
My jaw just dropped at Gorsuch's second comment there, which gave my brain a moment to recover from shock and realize that by putting these two items together, it's even worse.
Me too, when I read it on SCOTUSblog. But if you watch the video, it's not an accurate transcription. Everyone, stop quoting that comment! Thanks.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 2:46 PM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
Me too, when I read it on SCOTUSblog. But if you watch the video, it's not an accurate transcription. Everyone, stop quoting that comment! Thanks.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 2:46 PM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
>futz: ... prostitution within 1,000 feet of a church ...
Wut? As if prostitution alone being against the law wasn't bad enough? And what of separation of church and state? Uuuuughh... Oklahoma.
Yeah, that's my new slogan for the state. Uuuuughh ... Oklahoma.
If there's one thing we know about Jesus, it's that he would never be caught dead within 1000 feet of a tax collector, prostitute or sinner. [fake]
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:47 PM on March 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
Wut? As if prostitution alone being against the law wasn't bad enough? And what of separation of church and state? Uuuuughh... Oklahoma.
Yeah, that's my new slogan for the state. Uuuuughh ... Oklahoma.
If there's one thing we know about Jesus, it's that he would never be caught dead within 1000 feet of a tax collector, prostitute or sinner. [fake]
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:47 PM on March 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
TPM:
"For two years ending in 2013, the FBI had a court-approved warrant to eavesdrop on a sophisticated Russian organized crime money laundering network that operated out of unit 63A in Trump Tower.
The FBI investigation led to a federal grand jury indictment of more than 30 people, including one of the world’s most notorious Russian mafia bosses, Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov. Known as the “Little Taiwanese,” Tokhtakhounov was the only target to slip away, and he remains a fugitive from American justice.
Five months after the April 2013 indictment and after Interpol issued a “red notice” for Tokhtakhounov, the fugitive appeared near Donald Trump in the VIP section of the Moscow Miss Universe pageant. Trump had sold the Russian rights for Miss Universe to a billionaire Russian shopping mall developer."
I'm back to laughing uncontrollably, but I'll probably be crying again pretty soon.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:48 PM on March 21, 2017 [52 favorites]
"For two years ending in 2013, the FBI had a court-approved warrant to eavesdrop on a sophisticated Russian organized crime money laundering network that operated out of unit 63A in Trump Tower.
The FBI investigation led to a federal grand jury indictment of more than 30 people, including one of the world’s most notorious Russian mafia bosses, Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov. Known as the “Little Taiwanese,” Tokhtakhounov was the only target to slip away, and he remains a fugitive from American justice.
Five months after the April 2013 indictment and after Interpol issued a “red notice” for Tokhtakhounov, the fugitive appeared near Donald Trump in the VIP section of the Moscow Miss Universe pageant. Trump had sold the Russian rights for Miss Universe to a billionaire Russian shopping mall developer."
I'm back to laughing uncontrollably, but I'll probably be crying again pretty soon.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:48 PM on March 21, 2017 [52 favorites]
BREAKING: Gorsuch is now the first SCOTUS nominee to be asked about duck-size horses
posted by theodolite at 2:50 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 2:50 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
Uuuuughh ... Oklahoma
🎵Ugh-lahoma, where the whores must be 1000 feet... (away from a church).🎵
That being said I've had some great experiences in OKC. It's almost like everywhere you go has good people, even deep red Oklahoma.
posted by dis_integration at 2:51 PM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
🎵Ugh-lahoma, where the whores must be 1000 feet... (away from a church).🎵
That being said I've had some great experiences in OKC. It's almost like everywhere you go has good people, even deep red Oklahoma.
posted by dis_integration at 2:51 PM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
Is there any doubt this is where his wiretapping accusation came from? Like I doubt even he's aware of it, but isn't this how amphetamine damage and dementia works?
posted by schadenfrau at 2:51 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 2:51 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm watching the confirmation hearings. Gorsuch is going to be confirmed. This isn't Bork. Yes, that sucks. It's a stolen seat. But it's going to happen.
posted by Justinian at 2:52 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 2:52 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm watching the confirmation hearings. Gorsuch is going to be confirmed. This isn't Bork. Yes, that sucks. It's a stolen seat. But it's going to happen.
Well, maybe he'll get cancer and the cure will have been defunded years ago and he dies in horrible pain because he imposed that same obligation on the rest of the country during his tenure.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 2:54 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
Well, maybe he'll get cancer and the cure will have been defunded years ago and he dies in horrible pain because he imposed that same obligation on the rest of the country during his tenure.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 2:54 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
I still have many good friends and family fighting the good fight in Oklahoma. They just lack the numbers unfortunately.
posted by downtohisturtles at 2:54 PM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 2:54 PM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Trump is the next Nixon, but with added incompetence and treason. That's gotta leave a mark.
I've been wondering about this lately. I'm 43, and the shine has, in most recent years, really been burnished off the Reagan administration, especially as longitudinal studies about his policies are finally bearing fruit. So that goes: Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, Dubya, now Trump. Shitfires all the way down, even if you quibble about Bush I (and honestly, who's gonna do that?). It's also about the span of a generational cohort's political awareness, so I'm actually sanguine about the future*, barring any batshit-crazy martial law-style last-ditch effort for the Current Ruling Paradigm to keep power. One could say, given 3 million votes in the voice of the actual people, that it already has begun and the Trump admin is actually an outlier**, and we're on the verge of a 60's-era-sized change of the guard.
God I hope so.
*Don't ask me about the upcoming climate apocalypse, though - throw that into the mix, and all bets are off.
**Another way to look at it, of course, is that it's the beginning of a batshit-crazy martial law-style last-ditch effort for the Current Ruling Paradigm to keep power.
posted by eclectist at 2:56 PM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
I've been wondering about this lately. I'm 43, and the shine has, in most recent years, really been burnished off the Reagan administration, especially as longitudinal studies about his policies are finally bearing fruit. So that goes: Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, Dubya, now Trump. Shitfires all the way down, even if you quibble about Bush I (and honestly, who's gonna do that?). It's also about the span of a generational cohort's political awareness, so I'm actually sanguine about the future*, barring any batshit-crazy martial law-style last-ditch effort for the Current Ruling Paradigm to keep power. One could say, given 3 million votes in the voice of the actual people, that it already has begun and the Trump admin is actually an outlier**, and we're on the verge of a 60's-era-sized change of the guard.
God I hope so.
*Don't ask me about the upcoming climate apocalypse, though - throw that into the mix, and all bets are off.
**Another way to look at it, of course, is that it's the beginning of a batshit-crazy martial law-style last-ditch effort for the Current Ruling Paradigm to keep power.
posted by eclectist at 2:56 PM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
Flake: Would you rather fight one horse-sized duck or a hundred duck-sized horses? Gorsuch: I'm rarely at a loss for words.
The question apparently came from Sen. Flake, on behalf of his teenage son.
posted by zachlipton at 2:57 PM on March 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
The question apparently came from Sen. Flake, on behalf of his teenage son.
posted by zachlipton at 2:57 PM on March 21, 2017 [15 favorites]
Not to take away from the Gorsuch hearings (there's too many things happening at once) but this chart of the AHCA-provided tax breaks by income is really a sight to see.
Spoiler: If you make between $200K and $500K, your tax cut is on average $280. If you make less, your average tax cut is nothing. Who's getting the real bucks? That's left as an exercise to the reader, or click the link and look at that chart. Jaw-dropping in its naked venality.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:57 PM on March 21, 2017 [37 favorites]
Spoiler: If you make between $200K and $500K, your tax cut is on average $280. If you make less, your average tax cut is nothing. Who's getting the real bucks? That's left as an exercise to the reader, or click the link and look at that chart. Jaw-dropping in its naked venality.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:57 PM on March 21, 2017 [37 favorites]
cybertaur1: @filthy light thief, @RedOrGreen, @Justinian
Here's the relevant video
Really seems like a transcription error. I also commented on the SCOTUSBlog to that effect but it hasn't been moderated yet.
> Franken: It is settled law.
> Gorsuch: It is not.
Note that this comment suggests that's a transcription error. ("It is absolutely settled law.")
Sorry, I can't watch YouTube at the moment, but does this imply Gorsuch actually said "It is absolutely settled law" in reply to Franken saying "It is settled law"?
posted by filthy light thief at 2:59 PM on March 21, 2017
Here's the relevant video
Really seems like a transcription error. I also commented on the SCOTUSBlog to that effect but it hasn't been moderated yet.
> Franken: It is settled law.
> Gorsuch: It is not.
Note that this comment suggests that's a transcription error. ("It is absolutely settled law.")
Sorry, I can't watch YouTube at the moment, but does this imply Gorsuch actually said "It is absolutely settled law" in reply to Franken saying "It is settled law"?
posted by filthy light thief at 2:59 PM on March 21, 2017
Flake: Would you rather fight one horse-sized duck or a hundred duck-sized horses? Gorsuch: I'm rarely at a loss for words.
Dumbass. It takes only a moment to realize that a horse-sized duck would just collapse onto its immediately-broken bones and die, probably not even able to breathe, so of course you pick the horse-sized duck. Scalia would have answered this in a heartbeat.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:01 PM on March 21, 2017 [28 favorites]
Dumbass. It takes only a moment to realize that a horse-sized duck would just collapse onto its immediately-broken bones and die, probably not even able to breathe, so of course you pick the horse-sized duck. Scalia would have answered this in a heartbeat.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:01 PM on March 21, 2017 [28 favorites]
We knew Gorsuch was going to get confirmed. The only suspense I have now is whether any Dems will cave. I wish I was confident that some of them wouldn't. If I had any Dems representing me I would call them and tell them they better not, so if you do, please do that for me.
My senators are making googly-eyes at this guy so there is no hope to be had there. He's their Aryan dreamboat.
posted by emjaybee at 3:05 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
My senators are making googly-eyes at this guy so there is no hope to be had there. He's their Aryan dreamboat.
posted by emjaybee at 3:05 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
filthy light thief: I watched and yes, he said "It is absolutely settled law."
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:07 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:07 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Dumbass. It takes only a moment to realize that a horse-sized duck would just collapse onto its immediately-broken bones and die, probably not even able to breathe, so of course you pick the horse-sized duck. Scalia would have answered this in a heartbeat.
Scalia died in bed with his head resting on a down filled pillow. The horse sized duck defeated him.
posted by srboisvert at 3:08 PM on March 21, 2017 [35 favorites]
Scalia died in bed with his head resting on a down filled pillow. The horse sized duck defeated him.
posted by srboisvert at 3:08 PM on March 21, 2017 [35 favorites]
RedOrGreen: Not to take away from the Gorsuch hearings (there's too many things happening at once) but this chart of the AHCA-provided tax breaks by income is really a sight to see.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:10 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
In their updated health bill, House Republicans are doubling down on their plan to cut taxes for high-income households while cutting health insurance for mostly low- and moderate-income households — speeding up tax cuts for the very richest people so they take effect in 2017, rather than 2018.The updated version caved to the Freedom Caucus, who thought that it was too humane. But I take some comfort in what Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, one of the architects of Obamacare, said this morning on NPR:
Specifically, the updated bill would eliminate, for 2017, two taxes that fall only on high-income filers: the additional Hospital Insurance (HI) payroll tax on high earners and the Medicare tax on unearned income.
What is going to happen in the Senate, where presumably this bill is going to get a very substantial overhaul, and then you're going to have the House voting for one thing, and the Senate completely changing because they don't have the votes in the Senate.I don't imagine he's the optimistic, naive sort, but we'll see.
Senator Collins and others have made it quite clear they're not voting for this bill. So they'd need substantial changes to get to their 50 votes. So, you know, it's a funny thing that the House is going to vote for something that isn't going to be the real bill. And it does seem a little bit like a bait-and-switch here.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:10 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
filthy light thief: The transcription on SCOTUSBlog seems to be something of a summary of the full dialog.
Here's the full transcription of the exchange:
Franken: How have your views of marriage equality changed, if at all, since the 2004 election?
Gorsuch: Senator my personal views - if I were to begin speaking about my personal views on this subject, which every American has views on, would send a misleading signal to the American people that my person --
Franken: It's settled law [or maybe "it's federal law?" a little hard to hear]
Gorsuch: It is absolutely settled law. There's ongoing litigation about its impact and its application, right now, and I cannot begin to share my personal views without suggesting mistakenly, to the people --
Franken: Ok, ok. Can I move onto something else now? Thank you. I understand. You've given a version of this answer before, so I understand, I understand.
It's possible that the SCOTUSBlog interpretation of Gorsuch's answer boils down to "It is not settled law" due to the "ongoing litigation" hedges. Gorsuch certainly didn't say verbatim "My personal views don't matter", for example, which is his response in the SCOTUSBlog transcript to Franken's initial question, but it seems like maybe a fair enough summary there.
posted by cybertaur1 at 3:12 PM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Here's the full transcription of the exchange:
Franken: How have your views of marriage equality changed, if at all, since the 2004 election?
Gorsuch: Senator my personal views - if I were to begin speaking about my personal views on this subject, which every American has views on, would send a misleading signal to the American people that my person --
Franken: It's settled law [or maybe "it's federal law?" a little hard to hear]
Gorsuch: It is absolutely settled law. There's ongoing litigation about its impact and its application, right now, and I cannot begin to share my personal views without suggesting mistakenly, to the people --
Franken: Ok, ok. Can I move onto something else now? Thank you. I understand. You've given a version of this answer before, so I understand, I understand.
It's possible that the SCOTUSBlog interpretation of Gorsuch's answer boils down to "It is not settled law" due to the "ongoing litigation" hedges. Gorsuch certainly didn't say verbatim "My personal views don't matter", for example, which is his response in the SCOTUSBlog transcript to Franken's initial question, but it seems like maybe a fair enough summary there.
posted by cybertaur1 at 3:12 PM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Here's the video on the duck/horse question. That headshake Gorsuch does is amazing.
Flake then asks if Gorsuch has ever worn gym shorts and a tank top under his robe. He pleads the fifth.
thisisfine.gif
posted by zachlipton at 3:14 PM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
Flake then asks if Gorsuch has ever worn gym shorts and a tank top under his robe. He pleads the fifth.
thisisfine.gif
posted by zachlipton at 3:14 PM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
> The Judge Gorsuch who spoke in the Senate today is nothing like the man who wrote his opinions
Behind Neil Gorsuch's Rhetoric, His Record Suggests Aggressive Judge Wedded to Conservative Agenda
> Gorsuch Is Just a Start as Right Plans a Remake of the Judiciary
The scale and sophistication of the right’s judicial confirmation efforts would seem to portend a dark period ahead for the left, which, despite having made great strides under Mr. Obama, finds itself outmaneuvered.
Inside How the Federalist Society & Koch Brothers Are Pushing for Trump to Reshape Federal Judiciary
posted by homunculus at 3:15 PM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Behind Neil Gorsuch's Rhetoric, His Record Suggests Aggressive Judge Wedded to Conservative Agenda
> Gorsuch Is Just a Start as Right Plans a Remake of the Judiciary
The scale and sophistication of the right’s judicial confirmation efforts would seem to portend a dark period ahead for the left, which, despite having made great strides under Mr. Obama, finds itself outmaneuvered.
Inside How the Federalist Society & Koch Brothers Are Pushing for Trump to Reshape Federal Judiciary
posted by homunculus at 3:15 PM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
According to twitter Grassley just announced that Senator Tillis will be taking over the hearing at 8:00 because Grassley has to go to bed at 9:00. I am stunned. Yes the Senate is full of old guys who need their rest but the fact that he felt comfortable announcing this as his reason is bizarre to me. It screams: "I'm not flexible nor energetic enough to do this important job anymore. Vote me out. Thanks."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:16 PM on March 21, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:16 PM on March 21, 2017 [29 favorites]
I don't imagine he's the optimistic, naive sort, but we'll see.
I think it's a pretty realistic assessment of the most likely outcome, though of course this is by no means guaranteed.
After eight years of consequence-free screaming into the void, our Republicans is learning that their actions now have consequences.
And the political calculus is different for different factions, which is going to make it pretty damn hard for them to find a compromise that satisfies the non-reality-based ideologues of the Freedom Caucus with the handful of moderates in the House and purple-state Senators who don't want to sign the death warrant on their careers.
I don't even want to use the o-word because I'm increasingly superstitious but I'll say that I'm at least cautiously non-pessimistic about the possibility that nothing gets passed.
Even then, however, we would still face a struggling insurance framework that will be undermined by the incompetence and/or direct fuckery of the Trump Administration and HHS leadership. It will be hard to force the government to effectively fix a law it detests.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:20 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think it's a pretty realistic assessment of the most likely outcome, though of course this is by no means guaranteed.
After eight years of consequence-free screaming into the void, our Republicans is learning that their actions now have consequences.
And the political calculus is different for different factions, which is going to make it pretty damn hard for them to find a compromise that satisfies the non-reality-based ideologues of the Freedom Caucus with the handful of moderates in the House and purple-state Senators who don't want to sign the death warrant on their careers.
I don't even want to use the o-word because I'm increasingly superstitious but I'll say that I'm at least cautiously non-pessimistic about the possibility that nothing gets passed.
Even then, however, we would still face a struggling insurance framework that will be undermined by the incompetence and/or direct fuckery of the Trump Administration and HHS leadership. It will be hard to force the government to effectively fix a law it detests.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:20 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
ProPublica Former Lobbyist With For-Profit Colleges Quits Education Department
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:21 PM on March 21, 2017 [22 favorites]
Under fire from Sen. Elizabeth Warren, Taylor Hansen quit the department three days after ProPublica revealed his hiring.This administration really is scraping the bottom of the barrel to put people into place. How hard is it to find someone to work in the Dept. of Ed. that is not a lobbyist of for-profit colleges?
A former lobbyist for an association of for-profit colleges resigned last Friday from the Department of Education, where he had worked for about a month.
As ProPublica reported last week, the Trump administration had hired Taylor Hansen to join the department’s “beachhead” team, a group of temporary hires who do not require approval from the U.S. Senate for their appointments.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:21 PM on March 21, 2017 [22 favorites]
Al Franken continuing to impress with his hard-hitting questioning of nominees. Watch Al Franken shut down Gorsuch’s cruel decision in the ‘Frozen Trucker’ case.
“What you’re talking about here is the plain meaning rule. Here is what the rule means. When the plain meaning of a statute is clear on its face, when its meaning is obvious, courts have no business looking beyond the meaning to the statute’s purpose. And that’s what you used, right?,” Franken said.
Gorsuch agreed that that was what was argued.
“But the plain meaning rule has an exception. When using the plain meaning rule would create an absurd result, courts should depart from the plain meaning. It is absurd to say this company is in its rights to fire him because he made the choice of possibly dying from freezing to death or causing other people to die possibly by driving an unsafe vehicle. That’s absurd.”
“Now, I had a career in identifying absurdity,” Franken continued. “And I know it when I see it. And it makes me — you know, it makes me question your judgment,” he said.
posted by triggerfinger at 3:24 PM on March 21, 2017 [134 favorites]
“What you’re talking about here is the plain meaning rule. Here is what the rule means. When the plain meaning of a statute is clear on its face, when its meaning is obvious, courts have no business looking beyond the meaning to the statute’s purpose. And that’s what you used, right?,” Franken said.
Gorsuch agreed that that was what was argued.
“But the plain meaning rule has an exception. When using the plain meaning rule would create an absurd result, courts should depart from the plain meaning. It is absurd to say this company is in its rights to fire him because he made the choice of possibly dying from freezing to death or causing other people to die possibly by driving an unsafe vehicle. That’s absurd.”
“Now, I had a career in identifying absurdity,” Franken continued. “And I know it when I see it. And it makes me — you know, it makes me question your judgment,” he said.
posted by triggerfinger at 3:24 PM on March 21, 2017 [134 favorites]
National Treasure Alexandra Petri @petridishes: tired slightly irritable gorsuch is a more appealing figure than Heh Heh Let Me Explain This So Even You Can Understand gorsuch
Her Twitter commentary on the hearings is priceless.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:24 PM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
Her Twitter commentary on the hearings is priceless.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:24 PM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
Marie Claire: What Neil Gorsuch's SCOTUS Confirmation Will Mean for Women
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:27 PM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:27 PM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Gorsuch: Senator my personal views - if I were to begin speaking about my personal views on this subject, which every American has views on, would send a misleading signal to the American people that my person --This transcription sounds accurate. It's still very much a non-answer, and a little disingenuous too.
Franken: It's settled law [or maybe "it's federal law?" a little hard to hear]
Gorsuch: It is absolutely settled law. There's ongoing litigation about its impact and its application, right now, and I cannot begin to share my personal views without suggesting mistakenly, to the people --
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 3:28 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Disingenuous non-answers are, sadly, what you get at Supreme Court confirmation hearings. No matter who the nominee is. They're kabuki theater ever since the Bork hearings.
(Clarence Thomas' sexual harassment stuff excepted).
posted by Justinian at 3:31 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
(Clarence Thomas' sexual harassment stuff excepted).
posted by Justinian at 3:31 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Disability In The Age Of Trump, a touching comic by Amanda Scurti.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:39 PM on March 21, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:39 PM on March 21, 2017 [32 favorites]
That Frozen Trucker story is horrifying. Gorsuch believes that it is the responsibility of an employee to sacrifice his life or the lives of others to protect the property of corporations. That is only one case among many in which Gorsuch defers to the side of corporations against employees and consumers. The guy is an amoral nightmare, even worse than Scalia.
posted by JackFlash at 3:49 PM on March 21, 2017 [58 favorites]
posted by JackFlash at 3:49 PM on March 21, 2017 [58 favorites]
A new Mideast box on census is sensitive
Be a real fucking shame if a few million non-Middle Eastern sorts happened to check it, huh? Are they gonna make it that easy?
Also fuck Joe Lieberman.
posted by spitbull at 3:54 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Be a real fucking shame if a few million non-Middle Eastern sorts happened to check it, huh? Are they gonna make it that easy?
Also fuck Joe Lieberman.
posted by spitbull at 3:54 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
And Maxine Waters' tweet is up to 54,750 likes and over 22,000 retweets.
posted by spitbull at 4:02 PM on March 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 4:02 PM on March 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
Be a real fucking shame if a few million non-Middle Eastern sorts happened to check it, huh? Are they gonna make it that easy?
Um, no. We need better Census categories and we need accurate data.
If the Trumpists get to the point where they're rooting out Muslims, Arabs or any other group they'll have plenty of easier ways to do it beside Census data, as the article linked above notes.
Also, it's ridiculous that people with national origins from Pakistan to the Philippines to Japan all get lumped under the same 'Asian' category. There's like 3.5 billion of us.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:08 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
Um, no. We need better Census categories and we need accurate data.
If the Trumpists get to the point where they're rooting out Muslims, Arabs or any other group they'll have plenty of easier ways to do it beside Census data, as the article linked above notes.
Also, it's ridiculous that people with national origins from Pakistan to the Philippines to Japan all get lumped under the same 'Asian' category. There's like 3.5 billion of us.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:08 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
Politico: Trump, GOP leaders lack votes to pass Obamacare repeal
Oh please oh please oh please.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:11 PM on March 21, 2017 [21 favorites]
With just 48 hours to go before a vote, the president and senior House Republicans are scrambling to corral wayward members.
Oh please oh please oh please.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:11 PM on March 21, 2017 [21 favorites]
Guys, the NYT has an article about the investigation of Roger Stone's Russian connections that mentions that he has a tattoo of Nixon on his back. That was news to me, so I went a-googling. Here it is.
posted by carmicha at 4:19 PM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by carmicha at 4:19 PM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
They're between a rock and a hard place. Make it more awful towards poor people to corral "conservative" members of the House and you make it less likely to pass the Senate. Make it marginally less awful to pass the Senate and you lose the House.
Their plan appears to be to try to bribe people with more and more tax cuts.
posted by Justinian at 4:20 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Their plan appears to be to try to bribe people with more and more tax cuts.
posted by Justinian at 4:20 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Someone really needs to find the frozen trucker somewhere and get him on tv to tell in graphic detail what it was like to be freezing to death and how insane it is to side with a corporation that would rather have him dead
posted by localhuman at 4:21 PM on March 21, 2017 [56 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 4:21 PM on March 21, 2017 [56 favorites]
Johnny Wallflower: Disability In The Age Of Trump, a touching comic by Amanda Scurti.
I wish we could give hyper-favorites, favorites so emphatic that they would literally burn their way into the computer monitor. I would give this a hyper-favorite.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:21 PM on March 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
I wish we could give hyper-favorites, favorites so emphatic that they would literally burn their way into the computer monitor. I would give this a hyper-favorite.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:21 PM on March 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
Census categories have always been political.
posted by spitbull at 4:22 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 4:22 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Be a real fucking shame if a few million non-Middle Eastern sorts happened to check it, huh? Are they gonna make it that easy?
Please don't do this. I get that this seems like sketchy timing, but some MENA groups have been hoping for this additional category for a while, long before our current national nightmare. The census data provide valuable metrics that could benefit communities of MENA origin in the US. Right now, all of us getting lumped in under white when some of us manifestly are not (either in terms of actual skin tone or our general cultural acceptance into whiteness), is not helpful at all. Also, for a lot of people of MENA ethnic origin, the old lumping in under white was just plain confusing (i.e., where's the cutoff between South Asian and Central Asian, and what counts as Middle Eastern? Should you go by national origin or ethnicity? Should a darker skinned North African really tick the white box?).
posted by yasaman at 4:22 PM on March 21, 2017 [27 favorites]
Please don't do this. I get that this seems like sketchy timing, but some MENA groups have been hoping for this additional category for a while, long before our current national nightmare. The census data provide valuable metrics that could benefit communities of MENA origin in the US. Right now, all of us getting lumped in under white when some of us manifestly are not (either in terms of actual skin tone or our general cultural acceptance into whiteness), is not helpful at all. Also, for a lot of people of MENA ethnic origin, the old lumping in under white was just plain confusing (i.e., where's the cutoff between South Asian and Central Asian, and what counts as Middle Eastern? Should you go by national origin or ethnicity? Should a darker skinned North African really tick the white box?).
posted by yasaman at 4:22 PM on March 21, 2017 [27 favorites]
tattoo of Nixon
If Stone ever comes to his senses, that'll be hard to remove. Maybe it can be converted into something less unappealing.
posted by thelonius at 4:22 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
If Stone ever comes to his senses, that'll be hard to remove. Maybe it can be converted into something less unappealing.
posted by thelonius at 4:22 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Meanwhile in the just a coincidence department : -
A key witness in Preet Bharara’s Russian crime probe was just thrown from fourth floor of building in Moscow.
Nikolai Gorokhov was the Magnitsky family lawyer.
posted by adamvasco at 4:25 PM on March 21, 2017 [60 favorites]
A key witness in Preet Bharara’s Russian crime probe was just thrown from fourth floor of building in Moscow.
Nikolai Gorokhov was the Magnitsky family lawyer.
posted by adamvasco at 4:25 PM on March 21, 2017 [60 favorites]
Also from Politico: How Democrats could bring down Obamacare repeal
Dems are warning that the sweeteners Ryan put in the bill, like the additional abortion provision and the work requirement, to try to get it through the House won't pass muster in reconciliation and will get stripped out in the Senate.
posted by zachlipton at 4:29 PM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Dems are warning that the sweeteners Ryan put in the bill, like the additional abortion provision and the work requirement, to try to get it through the House won't pass muster in reconciliation and will get stripped out in the Senate.
posted by zachlipton at 4:29 PM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
i'm in on franken/warren or warren/franken 2020
posted by j_curiouser at 4:49 PM on March 21, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by j_curiouser at 4:49 PM on March 21, 2017 [24 favorites]
Trump SEC Pick Jay Clayton Connected to Mysterious Firm ~ He's not the only one in this administration, but Trump's SEC chief pick has some strange family holdings
The real issue with companies like these is the vast array of tools they can offer big companies and high-net-worth individuals to complicate their financial profiles. The worst-case scenario is a string of shell companies that end in an opaque offshore haven.
"That's when the trail becomes impossible to follow," says Blum. Investigators who try to follow money into offshore banking havens have almost no hope of getting answers there, he says.
"You need a formal mutual legal request that may or may not be honored in the lifetime of the investigator," says Blum.
Interestingly, when Public Citizen ran the names of WMB and CSC through the Panama Papers database, they found nothing. But when they ran the address common to both companies – 2711 Centerville Rd., Wilmington – through the database, they found it connected with numerous firms whose agent was the infamous Mossack Fonseca, many of them offshore companies.
posted by futz at 4:50 PM on March 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
The real issue with companies like these is the vast array of tools they can offer big companies and high-net-worth individuals to complicate their financial profiles. The worst-case scenario is a string of shell companies that end in an opaque offshore haven.
"That's when the trail becomes impossible to follow," says Blum. Investigators who try to follow money into offshore banking havens have almost no hope of getting answers there, he says.
"You need a formal mutual legal request that may or may not be honored in the lifetime of the investigator," says Blum.
Interestingly, when Public Citizen ran the names of WMB and CSC through the Panama Papers database, they found nothing. But when they ran the address common to both companies – 2711 Centerville Rd., Wilmington – through the database, they found it connected with numerous firms whose agent was the infamous Mossack Fonseca, many of them offshore companies.
posted by futz at 4:50 PM on March 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
New Yorkers who don’t vote would pay $10 fine under assemblywoman’s bill
posted by Chrysostom at 4:54 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 4:54 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Matthews just gave a little speech at the end of his show urging Democrats to filibuster Gorsuch. I guess Trump has also radicalized him.
posted by Justinian at 5:00 PM on March 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 5:00 PM on March 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
Flake: Would you rather fight one horse-sized duck or a hundred duck-sized horses? Gorsuch: I'm rarely at a loss for words.
The question apparently came from Sen. Flake, on behalf of his teenage son.
The question Flake answered: is Senator Flake someone who wants democratic accountability to die from one massive blow, or the death of a thousand tiny cuts?
posted by jaduncan at 5:08 PM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
The question apparently came from Sen. Flake, on behalf of his teenage son.
The question Flake answered: is Senator Flake someone who wants democratic accountability to die from one massive blow, or the death of a thousand tiny cuts?
posted by jaduncan at 5:08 PM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
not that this is directly related, but I was just wondering if we should bet whether tRump will throw out the first pitch this year? Maybe he'll break that record, too, along with 1st petless president etc etc
posted by yoga at 5:10 PM on March 21, 2017
posted by yoga at 5:10 PM on March 21, 2017
It's almost like Delaware is a popular place for corporations to form and have their legal residence for some reason, and there are zillions of them that all have the same office buildings there as their addresses or something. Like maybe the Delaware address of Incorporate.com might be a pretty common address for corporations that incorporate in Delaware or something.
posted by The World Famous
You could have said all that without being so condescending.
posted by futz at 5:17 PM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by The World Famous
You could have said all that without being so condescending.
posted by futz at 5:17 PM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
It screams: "I'm not flexible nor energetic enough to do this important job anymore.
the last time mister charles grassley ran a campaign on the promise of flexibility or energy, the voters of Iowa were not yet a twinkle in God's kindly eye as he was too preoccupied with creating the firmament to divide the heavens from the earth to think about them. at that time, chuck grassley would have been about fifty-five years old and still spry enough to cut a caper, but still went to bed by 9:00 because early to bed and early to rise will get a man elected to the United States Senate in about four thousand biblical years and it's never too soon to get your habits in order.
Iowa knows what they got and they like it very well. god only knows why.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:21 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
the last time mister charles grassley ran a campaign on the promise of flexibility or energy, the voters of Iowa were not yet a twinkle in God's kindly eye as he was too preoccupied with creating the firmament to divide the heavens from the earth to think about them. at that time, chuck grassley would have been about fifty-five years old and still spry enough to cut a caper, but still went to bed by 9:00 because early to bed and early to rise will get a man elected to the United States Senate in about four thousand biblical years and it's never too soon to get your habits in order.
Iowa knows what they got and they like it very well. god only knows why.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:21 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
CBS: Trump recommends a Super PAC to advertise the fact that Abraham Lincoln was a Republican -- something "a lot of people don't know."
I, uh, okay. Fine. Nobody knew that.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:25 PM on March 21, 2017 [51 favorites]
I, uh, okay. Fine. Nobody knew that.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:25 PM on March 21, 2017 [51 favorites]
oh boy he's crazy it keeps hitting me
posted by angrycat at 5:28 PM on March 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 5:28 PM on March 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
So Schumer is saying it: Senate Shouldn’t Vote On Neil Gorsuch While FBI Investigates Trump
"It is the height of irony.."
posted by mumimor at 5:31 PM on March 21, 2017 [108 favorites]
"It is the height of irony.."
posted by mumimor at 5:31 PM on March 21, 2017 [108 favorites]
This whole Lincoln thing is wild. I have had more than one social media opponent, in just this past week, point out to me that the republican party is the party of Lincoln, as if that excuses their racism, and ignores the past 5 decades of Republican assholery.
I'm choosing to see it as a sign of desperation, that they have little else good to say about themselves.
posted by OHenryPacey at 5:31 PM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'm choosing to see it as a sign of desperation, that they have little else good to say about themselves.
posted by OHenryPacey at 5:31 PM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
Yes, of course. Just like nobody knew that health care could be so complicated.
Trump's mirror.
posted by zakur at 5:31 PM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trump's mirror.
posted by zakur at 5:31 PM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Please don't do this.
Ok ok I get it. I meant it in the spirit of standing in solidarity and on the cynical premise that such information has historically been used in oppressive ways. (Don't get me started on the deceptive ways social class is hidden in census categories which then influences masses of social science that analyzes such data as primary evidence of phenomena that, surprise surprise, turn out to be "racial" even though they affect all "poor" people in similar ways.)
Anyway, on that premise and on the model of non-Muslim allies signing ourselves up for any "Muslim registry," my suggestion was of course merely a Modest Proposal to declare solidarity.
posted by spitbull at 5:33 PM on March 21, 2017
Ok ok I get it. I meant it in the spirit of standing in solidarity and on the cynical premise that such information has historically been used in oppressive ways. (Don't get me started on the deceptive ways social class is hidden in census categories which then influences masses of social science that analyzes such data as primary evidence of phenomena that, surprise surprise, turn out to be "racial" even though they affect all "poor" people in similar ways.)
Anyway, on that premise and on the model of non-Muslim allies signing ourselves up for any "Muslim registry," my suggestion was of course merely a Modest Proposal to declare solidarity.
posted by spitbull at 5:33 PM on March 21, 2017
Republicans: we’re the party of Lincoln! (but also we want to keep putting up Confederate flags)
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 5:35 PM on March 21, 2017 [34 favorites]
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 5:35 PM on March 21, 2017 [34 favorites]
Trump recommends a Super PAC to advertise the fact that Abraham Lincoln was a Republican -- something "a lot of people don't know."
Fully public coordination between Trump's 2020 campaign and superpacs. Whoops!
posted by srboisvert at 5:40 PM on March 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
Fully public coordination between Trump's 2020 campaign and superpacs. Whoops!
posted by srboisvert at 5:40 PM on March 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
The Lincoln thing is a long standing canard on the Right, one of their very favorite tricks has long been to pretend the Southern Strategy was never a thing, and that the parties never flipped. That Trump is just now using that line probably means his Russian PR team/botnet controllers recently discovered it and it filtered up to the top.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:41 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:41 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
first pitch
Well, he was once one of the greatest baseball players in New York history, said so himself.
posted by spitbull at 5:41 PM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, he was once one of the greatest baseball players in New York history, said so himself.
posted by spitbull at 5:41 PM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Things Donald Trump thinks nobody knows:
1) Frederick Douglass was amazing.
2) Healthcare is complicated.
3) Abraham Lincoln was Republican.
4) ???
posted by Justinian at 5:50 PM on March 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
1) Frederick Douglass was amazing.
2) Healthcare is complicated.
3) Abraham Lincoln was Republican.
4) ???
posted by Justinian at 5:50 PM on March 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
the party of Lincoln
Easy response: ain't it a real shame you'll now be known as the "Party of Trump."
posted by spitbull at 5:52 PM on March 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
Easy response: ain't it a real shame you'll now be known as the "Party of Trump."
posted by spitbull at 5:52 PM on March 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
Republicans: It doesn't matter what we say or do! Kill America! Corruption is good! we’re the party of Lincoln!
A little wordy for a bumper sticker, but it's not like reading's a priority.
posted by petebest at 5:53 PM on March 21, 2017
A little wordy for a bumper sticker, but it's not like reading's a priority.
posted by petebest at 5:53 PM on March 21, 2017
I have given up on hope, I can't afford it anymore and it keeps betraying me. I think now, both cynically and realistically, that the Teabaggers supposed objections to RepubliCare are just pro-forma bullshit. Trump hasn't faced a single failed vote yet, and I see no reason at all to imagine that somehow this will be different.
The idea that the Republicans won't, at the last minute and after claiming victory for their Teabagging voters, come together to fuck us all is laughable. They are united and vote in lockstep. A few will "boldly" vote no, but they will be a carefully chosen few who are insufficient to derail the bill.
They will pass RepubliCare. The only question to me is how many Vichy Democrats will join them to give it that oh-so-precious stamp of bipartisanship. It is, I think, inevitable that it will both pass and pass with Democratic votes, the only question is how many.
Personally I'm betting on at least 10 Democratic Senators and 20 Democratic Representatives. To imagine that they would fail to take this opportunity to betray us and hurt us is foolhardy and unrealistic. Of course they will betray us, and of course they will betray us in large numbers.
I'd love to be proven wrong on either of those predictions, but I think I have finally calibrated my predictive ability with the cruel, vindictive, and stupid nature of America and the American voter so I will be greatly surprised if I'm wrong.
jaduncan The question Flake answered: is Senator Flake someone who wants democratic accountability to die from one massive blow, or the death of a thousand tiny cuts?
You know, I'm actually happy with Flake on this.
The whole "hearing" thing is the purest essence of DC Kabuki. I love RBG to death, but the Ginsburg rule has turned hearings on SCOTUS nominees into an obscene waste of time, nothing but an opportunity for grandstanding by Senators.
I loved seeing Franken attacking Gorsuch, it was beautiful. And it was also totally and utterly meaningless except for his re-election efforts. Gorsuch will be confirmed, you know it, I know it, everyone knows it.
The same Senate that confirmed DeVos and Tillerson and the other manifestly incompetent ideologues Trump has appointed will not draw the line at Gorsuch. The only question is if the Democrats will filibuster, and I think we all know the answer to that one too, becuase we saw it so often during Junior's time in office. They'll tell us they have to keep their powder dry, that they're afraid if they filibuster now the Republicans will nuke it and then won't we be sorry if they do something worse.
We all know exactly what will happen, there is nothing that will change that outcome, so if they're going to waste our time with this bullshit at least we might as well get some entertainment out of it.
posted by sotonohito at 5:54 PM on March 21, 2017 [21 favorites]
The idea that the Republicans won't, at the last minute and after claiming victory for their Teabagging voters, come together to fuck us all is laughable. They are united and vote in lockstep. A few will "boldly" vote no, but they will be a carefully chosen few who are insufficient to derail the bill.
They will pass RepubliCare. The only question to me is how many Vichy Democrats will join them to give it that oh-so-precious stamp of bipartisanship. It is, I think, inevitable that it will both pass and pass with Democratic votes, the only question is how many.
Personally I'm betting on at least 10 Democratic Senators and 20 Democratic Representatives. To imagine that they would fail to take this opportunity to betray us and hurt us is foolhardy and unrealistic. Of course they will betray us, and of course they will betray us in large numbers.
I'd love to be proven wrong on either of those predictions, but I think I have finally calibrated my predictive ability with the cruel, vindictive, and stupid nature of America and the American voter so I will be greatly surprised if I'm wrong.
jaduncan The question Flake answered: is Senator Flake someone who wants democratic accountability to die from one massive blow, or the death of a thousand tiny cuts?
You know, I'm actually happy with Flake on this.
The whole "hearing" thing is the purest essence of DC Kabuki. I love RBG to death, but the Ginsburg rule has turned hearings on SCOTUS nominees into an obscene waste of time, nothing but an opportunity for grandstanding by Senators.
I loved seeing Franken attacking Gorsuch, it was beautiful. And it was also totally and utterly meaningless except for his re-election efforts. Gorsuch will be confirmed, you know it, I know it, everyone knows it.
The same Senate that confirmed DeVos and Tillerson and the other manifestly incompetent ideologues Trump has appointed will not draw the line at Gorsuch. The only question is if the Democrats will filibuster, and I think we all know the answer to that one too, becuase we saw it so often during Junior's time in office. They'll tell us they have to keep their powder dry, that they're afraid if they filibuster now the Republicans will nuke it and then won't we be sorry if they do something worse.
We all know exactly what will happen, there is nothing that will change that outcome, so if they're going to waste our time with this bullshit at least we might as well get some entertainment out of it.
posted by sotonohito at 5:54 PM on March 21, 2017 [21 favorites]
Trump recommends a Super PAC to advertise the fact that Abraham Lincoln was a Republican -- something "a lot of people don't know."
He 100% has no idea he could just get Betsy DeVos' department to fire off an educational PSA about Lincoln for the Ad Council. Like, it could be done next week. He could have them whip up a whole series like Canada's Heritage Minutes with all the factual rigor of a Texas schoolbook to extoll the virtues of Republican historical figures and it would be totally within his power but he has no idea how the government works.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:58 PM on March 21, 2017 [48 favorites]
He 100% has no idea he could just get Betsy DeVos' department to fire off an educational PSA about Lincoln for the Ad Council. Like, it could be done next week. He could have them whip up a whole series like Canada's Heritage Minutes with all the factual rigor of a Texas schoolbook to extoll the virtues of Republican historical figures and it would be totally within his power but he has no idea how the government works.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:58 PM on March 21, 2017 [48 favorites]
Trump recommends a Super PAC to advertise the fact that Abraham Lincoln was a Republican -- something "a lot of people don't know."
Can we get a Super PAC to educate Trump on the shit he should have learned as a school child?
posted by nubs at 6:06 PM on March 21, 2017 [25 favorites]
Can we get a Super PAC to educate Trump on the shit he should have learned as a school child?
posted by nubs at 6:06 PM on March 21, 2017 [25 favorites]
They will pass Republicare ... I'm betting on at least 10 Democratic Senators and 20 Democratic Representatives
Sotonohito I totally get where you're coming from but I will take that bet. I bet the current bill fails, and they pass some minor bandaid afterwards on a pure party line vote, unless it's a significantly more generous bill.
Is our Congresspeople learning? I think they is. (But yes, I also thought H was a lock and I was worrying about the Senate. So I clearly know nothing and shouldn't be in the prediction business.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 6:06 PM on March 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
Sotonohito I totally get where you're coming from but I will take that bet. I bet the current bill fails, and they pass some minor bandaid afterwards on a pure party line vote, unless it's a significantly more generous bill.
Is our Congresspeople learning? I think they is. (But yes, I also thought H was a lock and I was worrying about the Senate. So I clearly know nothing and shouldn't be in the prediction business.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 6:06 PM on March 21, 2017 [16 favorites]
There is zero percent chance that 10 Democratic Senators vote for Republicare. I would wager the farm on it.
I would, with high confidence, put the over/under on Democratic votes for Republicare at 1.
posted by Justinian at 6:09 PM on March 21, 2017 [17 favorites]
I would, with high confidence, put the over/under on Democratic votes for Republicare at 1.
posted by Justinian at 6:09 PM on March 21, 2017 [17 favorites]
(And unless major changes are made to it, I would take the under.)
posted by Justinian at 6:10 PM on March 21, 2017
posted by Justinian at 6:10 PM on March 21, 2017
The idea that the Republicans won't, at the last minute and after claiming victory for their Teabagging voters, come together to fuck us all is laughable. They are united and vote in lockstep. A few will "boldly" vote no, but they will be a carefully chosen few who are insufficient to derail the bill.You know, you may be right. But if that happens, I'm going to feel good about having been one of the people who fought like hell to try to stop it, not one of the smug leftist guys who sat on their fucking couches and taunted us all about how superior they were for knowing we were doomed. If I never again hear a smug leftist guy tell me how useless and naive I am for even trying, it will be much, much too late.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:14 PM on March 21, 2017 [56 favorites]
One could say, given 3 million votes in the voice of the actual people, that it already has begun and the Trump admin is actually an outlier**, and we're on the verge of a 60's-era-sized change of the guard.
I'd like to agree with you, I really would. But then I think about systemic memory - how long it takes to, say, close an ozone hole. Or how long it might take to even reign in, let alone reverse, global warming.
Benedict Donald has a 30% cut to EPA on the table. Once that budget is cut by 30%, it will then need, in the next administration, a 50% increase just to get back to where we were. I can hear the republican outrage from here, years in the future, already.
Extend that logic to everything else he's proposed cutting. No, wait, multiply it by another factor: science research has LOST money to inflation since almost a decade now. We've already been talking about a lost generation of scientists from that effect alone, the toddler wants to chop science by 20-30%, and when would we ever increase spending by 40-50% .... that, again, would only get us back to the starting line?
The injuries from this ... event ... have already started, and will last, I expect, the rest of our natural lives. We will never get back to the peace and shared prosperity that we have, now. I do not agree that we are on the cusp of a liberal progressive breakthrough; rather, I fully expect we'll spend decades and lost generations trying to claw our way back to the present.
Sorry for being the downer tonight.
posted by Dashy at 6:14 PM on March 21, 2017 [27 favorites]
I'd like to agree with you, I really would. But then I think about systemic memory - how long it takes to, say, close an ozone hole. Or how long it might take to even reign in, let alone reverse, global warming.
Benedict Donald has a 30% cut to EPA on the table. Once that budget is cut by 30%, it will then need, in the next administration, a 50% increase just to get back to where we were. I can hear the republican outrage from here, years in the future, already.
Extend that logic to everything else he's proposed cutting. No, wait, multiply it by another factor: science research has LOST money to inflation since almost a decade now. We've already been talking about a lost generation of scientists from that effect alone, the toddler wants to chop science by 20-30%, and when would we ever increase spending by 40-50% .... that, again, would only get us back to the starting line?
The injuries from this ... event ... have already started, and will last, I expect, the rest of our natural lives. We will never get back to the peace and shared prosperity that we have, now. I do not agree that we are on the cusp of a liberal progressive breakthrough; rather, I fully expect we'll spend decades and lost generations trying to claw our way back to the present.
Sorry for being the downer tonight.
posted by Dashy at 6:14 PM on March 21, 2017 [27 favorites]
high confidence, put the over/under on Democratic votes for Republicare at 1.
posted by Justinian
Introducing:
The Justinian Expectational Legislative Level, or JELL.
Worked good the last time!
posted by spitbull at 6:15 PM on March 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Justinian
Introducing:
The Justinian Expectational Legislative Level, or JELL.
Worked good the last time!
posted by spitbull at 6:15 PM on March 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
Party of Lincoln
Whenever that old canard is trotted out, I recommend trotting out this Janet Jackson song .
Spoiler: it's "What Have You Done for me Lately?"
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:24 PM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Whenever that old canard is trotted out, I recommend trotting out this Janet Jackson song .
Spoiler: it's "What Have You Done for me Lately?"
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:24 PM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Josh Marshall hits hard again tonight... TPM: "Inside the Alt-Right/All-Russia Nexus."
posted by spitbull at 6:24 PM on March 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 6:24 PM on March 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
WaPo: Trump’s budget targets rural development programs that provide a quiet lifeline
posted by zachlipton at 6:27 PM on March 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:27 PM on March 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
NYT goes deep on psychoanalyzing Trump: Why Letting Go, for Trump, Is No Small or Simple Task, blaming his obsessions on his father and Roy Cohn.
posted by zachlipton at 6:30 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
So why can’t he just let go?This article doesn't particularly resemble journalism in many senses, but it paints a picture of someone who is not exactly well.
First, aides say that Mr. Trump, who often says, “I’m, like, a really smart person” in public, is driven by a need to prove his legitimacy as president to the many critics who deem him an unworthy victor forever undercut by Hillary Clinton’s three-million-vote win in the popular vote.
posted by zachlipton at 6:30 PM on March 21, 2017 [7 favorites]
So I took a charger and my iPod out to cut back the shrubberies encroaching on the homestead. I didn't realize how involved in it I would get, and how long it would go on, but it went on so long I trimmed, gathered and stacked for pickup, a pile of brush that is about 10 feet long, 4 feet wide and about 4 feet tall. I finally ran out of power, physically and battery at about 608 cst, so I missed everything after that.
Notable moments were the Al Franken time, and the ted cruz blowjob section. I mean, I couldn't see it, but ill bet money that Ted's maggot filled human sack was making goo goo eyes at the judge.
I'll have to go back to transcripts to see who asked what, but some of the Dems were asking solid foundation questions. No republicans, that I can remember, did anything but tongue bathe Gorsuch.
For his part, the judge is a very well educated, well spoken jurist with an enormous amount of practice in both speech and delivery. He performed his part well, and now we will see if the democratic union stands together, or falls to the dog and pony show.
Make no mistake, this judge presented as a reasonable, rational servant to the law, but I put it to you that his judicial record and his writings suggest that he is every bit a Federalist who has the hard backing of the Koch brothers and the Mercers. My rule of thumb is that if those people like someone, then that person is probably poison to the system.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:32 PM on March 21, 2017 [17 favorites]
Notable moments were the Al Franken time, and the ted cruz blowjob section. I mean, I couldn't see it, but ill bet money that Ted's maggot filled human sack was making goo goo eyes at the judge.
I'll have to go back to transcripts to see who asked what, but some of the Dems were asking solid foundation questions. No republicans, that I can remember, did anything but tongue bathe Gorsuch.
For his part, the judge is a very well educated, well spoken jurist with an enormous amount of practice in both speech and delivery. He performed his part well, and now we will see if the democratic union stands together, or falls to the dog and pony show.
Make no mistake, this judge presented as a reasonable, rational servant to the law, but I put it to you that his judicial record and his writings suggest that he is every bit a Federalist who has the hard backing of the Koch brothers and the Mercers. My rule of thumb is that if those people like someone, then that person is probably poison to the system.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:32 PM on March 21, 2017 [17 favorites]
> "The injuries from this ... event ... have already started, and will last, I expect, the rest of our natural lives. We will never get back to the peace and shared prosperity that we have, now."
Dear future generations, should there be some:
We saw it coming.
We just couldn't stop it.
posted by kyrademon at 6:34 PM on March 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
Dear future generations, should there be some:
We saw it coming.
We just couldn't stop it.
posted by kyrademon at 6:34 PM on March 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
I mean, I couldn't see it, but ill bet money that Ted's maggot filled human sack was making goo goo eyes at the judge.
Oh you have no idea. It's funny that you got that just from the audio, because everyone on Twitter was simultaneously going for the "Find someone that looks at you the way Ted Cruz looks at Neil Gorsuch" joke.
posted by zachlipton at 6:36 PM on March 21, 2017 [27 favorites]
Oh you have no idea. It's funny that you got that just from the audio, because everyone on Twitter was simultaneously going for the "Find someone that looks at you the way Ted Cruz looks at Neil Gorsuch" joke.
posted by zachlipton at 6:36 PM on March 21, 2017 [27 favorites]
For those worried about the AHCA: Current Estimate on Passage in Senate has it roughly 14 R against, with at least 3 who have openly declared their no votes.
See also Bloomberg.
But The Hill reports it may not be able to pass the House.
posted by monopas at 6:37 PM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
See also Bloomberg.
But The Hill reports it may not be able to pass the House.
posted by monopas at 6:37 PM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Note that while that WaPo article about the budget is solidly in the "elegy for the poor coal miners" mold, it does have an adorable picture of a dude who has benefited from government programs with his doggo: Chad Trador, with his dog Tinker Bell, is a former coal miner from Hagerhill, Ky., who has benefited from a federally funded program teaching him how to write computer code. And I think that's the kind of journalism we want to reward.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 6:54 PM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 6:54 PM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
I would definitely prefer my "elegy for the poor Trump-voting coal miners" articles with about 500% more cute doggo pictures.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:09 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:09 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Go easy on each other everyone; let cortex poop in peace.
posted by um at 7:10 PM on March 21, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by um at 7:10 PM on March 21, 2017 [33 favorites]
If you have a hardline Republican rep, what's the moral calculus for contacting them and playacting a Teahadist to get them to continue to oppose the bill on grounds that it's not cruel enough?
I've been thinking a lot about this today. I have a representative who's a member of the Freedom Caucus and a full-blown Tea Party member. He's been hiding from constituents because he's afraid of "violence", specifically citing Gabby Giffords. And of course he feels that the ACHA won't help shrink the deficit, the one thing he cares about because he certainly doesn't care what the ACHA would do to the folks in his district.
If the ACHA doesn't pass, my rep will undoubtedly try to force whatever comes next to not only be a full repeal but also include a return to workhouses. He won't be convinced to oppose it because of its horrific human cost, because he counts cost in coins, not lives. He's doing the equivalent of putting his fingers in his ears when it comes to listening to opposing viewpoints.
Regardless, I'm not willing to let the ACHA pass because what comes next might be worse. I'm going to fight this at every turn. I don't and won't lie: instead, when I've called my rep this week, I've said, "given the representative's strong opinion on the deficit, is he going to be consistent and oppose the ACHA?" Because he doesn't care if people die. But he cares if he's seen to be weak on cutting the deficit.
Similarly, when I was opposing Trump's cabinet picks, I said things like, "Given the representative's view that this election was about draining the swamp, this cabinet pick is horrible. He's an alligator. You'd be re-stocking the swamp, and I expect more consistency and honor from my rep." If I don't have a lever like that to push, then yes, I ask whether my representative's willing to screw over his constituents. But if I can use my representative's own stated viewpoints as a club against him, I will.
I hate this with a fiery passion. I didn't want my representative democracy to turn into a horrible Tamagotchi where I have to keep interacting with it on a daily basis or else democracy dies. I don't want things to get worse. But using my representative's own words against him isn't some accelerationist policy. It's me jabbing him in one of his few tender spots, hoping he'll do the right thing, even for the wrong reasons.
posted by sgranade at 7:11 PM on March 21, 2017 [40 favorites]
I've been thinking a lot about this today. I have a representative who's a member of the Freedom Caucus and a full-blown Tea Party member. He's been hiding from constituents because he's afraid of "violence", specifically citing Gabby Giffords. And of course he feels that the ACHA won't help shrink the deficit, the one thing he cares about because he certainly doesn't care what the ACHA would do to the folks in his district.
If the ACHA doesn't pass, my rep will undoubtedly try to force whatever comes next to not only be a full repeal but also include a return to workhouses. He won't be convinced to oppose it because of its horrific human cost, because he counts cost in coins, not lives. He's doing the equivalent of putting his fingers in his ears when it comes to listening to opposing viewpoints.
Regardless, I'm not willing to let the ACHA pass because what comes next might be worse. I'm going to fight this at every turn. I don't and won't lie: instead, when I've called my rep this week, I've said, "given the representative's strong opinion on the deficit, is he going to be consistent and oppose the ACHA?" Because he doesn't care if people die. But he cares if he's seen to be weak on cutting the deficit.
Similarly, when I was opposing Trump's cabinet picks, I said things like, "Given the representative's view that this election was about draining the swamp, this cabinet pick is horrible. He's an alligator. You'd be re-stocking the swamp, and I expect more consistency and honor from my rep." If I don't have a lever like that to push, then yes, I ask whether my representative's willing to screw over his constituents. But if I can use my representative's own stated viewpoints as a club against him, I will.
I hate this with a fiery passion. I didn't want my representative democracy to turn into a horrible Tamagotchi where I have to keep interacting with it on a daily basis or else democracy dies. I don't want things to get worse. But using my representative's own words against him isn't some accelerationist policy. It's me jabbing him in one of his few tender spots, hoping he'll do the right thing, even for the wrong reasons.
posted by sgranade at 7:11 PM on March 21, 2017 [40 favorites]
"The injuries from this ... event ... have already started, and will last, I expect, the rest of our natural lives.
TBH, I've felt that way nearly every day since September 11th, 2001.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:18 PM on March 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
TBH, I've felt that way nearly every day since September 11th, 2001.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:18 PM on March 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
I would definitely prefer my "elegy for the poor Trump-voting coal miners" articles with about 500% more cute doggo pictures.
This Cute Dog Voted For Trump, Now Trump Wants to Take Away His Bones
posted by tobascodagama at 7:20 PM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
This Cute Dog Voted For Trump, Now Trump Wants to Take Away His Bones
posted by tobascodagama at 7:20 PM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trumplicans
Retrumplicans
Trumpublicans
If only we can figure out the right name to use, they will tear themselves in two like Rumpelstilskin, and we will be free.
posted by neroli at 7:24 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Retrumplicans
Trumpublicans
If only we can figure out the right name to use, they will tear themselves in two like Rumpelstilskin, and we will be free.
posted by neroli at 7:24 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Trump Wants to Take Away His Bones
One of the more ominous provisions in the AHCA.
posted by mrgoat at 7:24 PM on March 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
One of the more ominous provisions in the AHCA.
posted by mrgoat at 7:24 PM on March 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Advocate: My Health Care Is Not Cosmetic: My doctor at the time told me outright that insurance companies would not approve of this surgery for someone who was still considered female in the eyes of the law. I hadn't even started hormones yet. She explained that insurance companies wanted women to go through a series of steps just to be sure nothing else could be done before permanently removing the uterus.
I could understand to a certain extent why that was, but for a trans man, aching to feel better for the first time in his life, it was disheartening news, especially because I had no plans to bear children. My doctor did say that it would be wise to refrain from changing my information if I ever did want my surgery covered, because once I was no longer technically female, the situation would get even stickier.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:25 PM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
I could understand to a certain extent why that was, but for a trans man, aching to feel better for the first time in his life, it was disheartening news, especially because I had no plans to bear children. My doctor did say that it would be wise to refrain from changing my information if I ever did want my surgery covered, because once I was no longer technically female, the situation would get even stickier.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:25 PM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
ArbitraryAndCapricious Sorry, I didn't mean we should give up, I've called my rep (Lamar Smith, ugh) and told him I was a small government conservative and part of the local Tea Party and I wanted him to vote against that ObamaCare Lite AHCA nonsense. I'm volunteering with my local Democrats for a fundraiser next week, and I'm signing up for voter registrar training in April.
Both my bank account and all the free time I'm not giving to my kid are being spent on the Democrats.
Hell yes we should fight!
I just, mentally, can't afford optimism anymore. The roller coaster is too much for me, I keep hoping that maybe, just maybe, we can win this one, and we don't. So I'm taking a pessimistic outlook on the current Congress for the sake of my own sanity. If I don't expect to win I won't be so crushed when we lose.
My optimism I'm saving for the 2017 and 2018 races. I really do think we have a slight chance of getting rid of Lamar Smith here, not a huge chance but depending on how badly Trump fucks up I think it's possible. Nationally I've got a bit of hope for the House in general and I think we'll hold at least 45 seats in the Senate even with so many of the elections stacked against us. And in 2020 I think we'll kick fucking ass.
But optimism for the current Congress is something I just can't do anymore, it costs me too many marbles. I was screaming at NPR this morning on my way to work, and that's not a sign of good mental health.
posted by sotonohito at 7:25 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Both my bank account and all the free time I'm not giving to my kid are being spent on the Democrats.
Hell yes we should fight!
I just, mentally, can't afford optimism anymore. The roller coaster is too much for me, I keep hoping that maybe, just maybe, we can win this one, and we don't. So I'm taking a pessimistic outlook on the current Congress for the sake of my own sanity. If I don't expect to win I won't be so crushed when we lose.
My optimism I'm saving for the 2017 and 2018 races. I really do think we have a slight chance of getting rid of Lamar Smith here, not a huge chance but depending on how badly Trump fucks up I think it's possible. Nationally I've got a bit of hope for the House in general and I think we'll hold at least 45 seats in the Senate even with so many of the elections stacked against us. And in 2020 I think we'll kick fucking ass.
But optimism for the current Congress is something I just can't do anymore, it costs me too many marbles. I was screaming at NPR this morning on my way to work, and that's not a sign of good mental health.
posted by sotonohito at 7:25 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
I didn't want my representative democracy to turn into a horrible Tamagotchi where I have to keep interacting with it on a daily basis or else democracy dies.
I nominate "Feed the Tamagochi or else democracy dies" as the title of the next thread
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:28 PM on March 21, 2017 [48 favorites]
I nominate "Feed the Tamagochi or else democracy dies" as the title of the next thread
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:28 PM on March 21, 2017 [48 favorites]
Sleepy Tillerson didn't even want the job?
I find it hard to assess how evil/stupid/incompetent/brain damage these people are.
posted by Artw at 7:31 PM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
I find it hard to assess how evil/stupid/incompetent/brain damage these people are.
posted by Artw at 7:31 PM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
Is this money laundering scheme:
posted by Room 641-A at 7:34 PM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Bank that lent $300m to Trump linked to Russian money laundering scamthe same as this money laundering scheme:
posted by futz at 1:33 PM on March 21
TPM:?
"For two years ending in 2013, the FBI had a court-approved warrant to eavesdrop on a sophisticated Russian organized crime money laundering network that operated out of unit 63A in Trump Tower.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:48 PM on March 21
posted by Room 641-A at 7:34 PM on March 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
Charles Pierce: This Is About Destroying the Presidency of Barack Obama: Digesting the Supreme Court nomination hearings of Neil Gorsuch.
The days of Earl Warren's coming back to haunt Dwight Eisenhower are long gone. (They took a turn toward the terminal in Bush v. Gore, and died entirely when John Roberts went before his own hearings and claimed to be an impartial umpire who would call balls and strikes.) Neil Gorsuch was handed to this president* because the people who have nurtured his entire career knew they had a safe one in the bag. And the president* put him up because the president* didn't know any better, and because he couldn't care less. It's also worthy of note that the president* in question is currently under investigation by the FBI.Neil Gorsuch Knows What Dark Money Is, and What That Money Expects of Him. Enough with the absurd notion that the Supreme Court is apolitical.
...As Senator Al Franken pointed out later, when he read from e-mails dating back to Gorsuch's days as a high-level Republican lawyer, specifically about his work for the 2004 Bush re-election campaign, Gorsuch has been a political being for his entire adult life and, at the same time, he hasn't spent a second in elected office, so his politics were formed and were exercised almost entirely through the conservative Republican institutional infrastructure.posted by homunculus at 7:37 PM on March 21, 2017 [29 favorites]
(Hell, when he was a kid, he was a Senate page. He's been in politics as long as Orrin Hatch.)
He knows what dark money is. He knows where it comes from. He knows the use to which it is put. And he knows what is expected of him when he is confirmed. (Which is not to say we know what he'll do when he's got the robe, although I know pretty well which way to bet.) For the country, it comes down to how much disbelief you're willing to suspend to judge what is produced by this ridiculous shadow play of a process.
Ah, Pittsburgh. The Yinzers Against Jagoffs PAC.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:53 PM on March 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 7:53 PM on March 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
If only we can figure out the right name to use, they will tear themselves in two like Rumpelstilskin, and we will be free.
Trumpelstiltskin.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:58 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Trumpelstiltskin.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:58 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ok. Fuck this. Fuck all of this. Fuck this retrograde Gilead motherfucker getting on the court, fuck the Confederazi destruction, fuck it all right in the ear.
I will give money to anyone who runs on an impeachment platform. Not just 45. But anybody that illegitimate, treasonous motherfucker manages to put in office. I want a fucking eraser taken to 2017 and any other year besmirched by these craven, soulless little shits.
Impeachment for everyone. An impeachment party. The impeachment party.
I'm not kidding.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:02 PM on March 21, 2017 [82 favorites]
I will give money to anyone who runs on an impeachment platform. Not just 45. But anybody that illegitimate, treasonous motherfucker manages to put in office. I want a fucking eraser taken to 2017 and any other year besmirched by these craven, soulless little shits.
Impeachment for everyone. An impeachment party. The impeachment party.
I'm not kidding.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:02 PM on March 21, 2017 [82 favorites]
Donald Trump: not a Russian Crime-Lord, but Number 1 with Russian Crime Lords
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:07 PM on March 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:07 PM on March 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
Neil Gorsuch Has Web of Ties to Secretive Billionaire
-- -- With the Senate Judiciary Committee set to take up Judge Gorsuch’s nomination next week, Democrats have based much of their criticism of him on the argument that his judicial and economic philosophy unduly favors corporations and the wealthy. But his relationship with Mr. Anschutz, 77, whose fortune is estimated by Forbes to be $12.6 billion, has received scant attention.
-- -- In 2005, Judge Gorsuch left private practice to work at the Justice Department. But soon afterward, a seat on the federal appeals court in Denver became vacant, and Mr. Anschutz sought to secure it for him.
-- The Federalist Society and the Heritage Foundation, which developed the list of potential Supreme Court nominees from which Mr. Trump selected Judge Gorsuch, receive funding from Mr. Anschutz. But it is not clear how well the two know each other, in part because the mogul and those around him keep a low profile.
-- But he has connections with others who work with the Colorado billionaire. For nearly a dozen years, Judge Gorsuch has been partners in a limited-liability company with two of Mr. Anschutz’s top lieutenants. Together, they own a 40-acre property on the Colorado River in the mountains northwest of Denver, where they built a vacation home together.
-- As a lawyer at a Washington law firm in the early 2000s, Judge Gorsuch represented Mr. Anschutz, his companies and lower-ranking business executives as an outside counsel. In 2006, Mr. Anschutz successfully lobbied Colorado’s lone Republican senator and the Bush administration to nominate Judge Gorsuch to the federal appeals court. And since joining the court, Judge Gorsuch has been a semiregular speaker at the mogul’s annual dove-hunting retreats for the wealthy and politically prominent at his 60-square-mile Eagles Nest Ranch.
“They say a country’s prosperity depends on three things: sound money, private property and the rule of law,” Judge Gorsuch said at the 2010 retreat, according to his speaker notes from that year. “This crowd hardly needs to hear from me about the first two of the problems we face on those scores.”
-- A 2004 case was typical. A teachers’ retirement fund that owned shares in the Regal Entertainment theater chain sued over its decision to issue a debt-financed dividend that would permit Mr. Anschutz, who owned 58 percent of the company, to extract $368 million. The plaintiffs said this amounted to self-dealing.
Judge Gorsuch helped win a ruling in Regal’s favor by arguing that it could handle the extra debt, telling a judge, “This company is what some analysts call a cash cow.”
posted by futz at 8:08 PM on March 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
-- -- With the Senate Judiciary Committee set to take up Judge Gorsuch’s nomination next week, Democrats have based much of their criticism of him on the argument that his judicial and economic philosophy unduly favors corporations and the wealthy. But his relationship with Mr. Anschutz, 77, whose fortune is estimated by Forbes to be $12.6 billion, has received scant attention.
-- -- In 2005, Judge Gorsuch left private practice to work at the Justice Department. But soon afterward, a seat on the federal appeals court in Denver became vacant, and Mr. Anschutz sought to secure it for him.
-- The Federalist Society and the Heritage Foundation, which developed the list of potential Supreme Court nominees from which Mr. Trump selected Judge Gorsuch, receive funding from Mr. Anschutz. But it is not clear how well the two know each other, in part because the mogul and those around him keep a low profile.
-- But he has connections with others who work with the Colorado billionaire. For nearly a dozen years, Judge Gorsuch has been partners in a limited-liability company with two of Mr. Anschutz’s top lieutenants. Together, they own a 40-acre property on the Colorado River in the mountains northwest of Denver, where they built a vacation home together.
-- As a lawyer at a Washington law firm in the early 2000s, Judge Gorsuch represented Mr. Anschutz, his companies and lower-ranking business executives as an outside counsel. In 2006, Mr. Anschutz successfully lobbied Colorado’s lone Republican senator and the Bush administration to nominate Judge Gorsuch to the federal appeals court. And since joining the court, Judge Gorsuch has been a semiregular speaker at the mogul’s annual dove-hunting retreats for the wealthy and politically prominent at his 60-square-mile Eagles Nest Ranch.
“They say a country’s prosperity depends on three things: sound money, private property and the rule of law,” Judge Gorsuch said at the 2010 retreat, according to his speaker notes from that year. “This crowd hardly needs to hear from me about the first two of the problems we face on those scores.”
-- A 2004 case was typical. A teachers’ retirement fund that owned shares in the Regal Entertainment theater chain sued over its decision to issue a debt-financed dividend that would permit Mr. Anschutz, who owned 58 percent of the company, to extract $368 million. The plaintiffs said this amounted to self-dealing.
Judge Gorsuch helped win a ruling in Regal’s favor by arguing that it could handle the extra debt, telling a judge, “This company is what some analysts call a cash cow.”
posted by futz at 8:08 PM on March 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
He knows what dark money is. He knows where it comes from. He knows the use to which it is put. And he knows what is expected of him when he is confirmed.
Neil Gorsuch Has Web of Ties to Secretive Billionaire
Lester Freamon has some thoughts about all this
posted by nubs at 8:19 PM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
Neil Gorsuch Has Web of Ties to Secretive Billionaire
Lester Freamon has some thoughts about all this
posted by nubs at 8:19 PM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
There will be some Democrats who vote for Gorsuch.
It must be their last act as a Democrat, or in elected office. It will be a betrayal of everything the party should stand for, and even the very idea of a cohesive party existing at all. If not this, then we might as well give it over to one party Trumpist rule in perpetuity, because that's what a vote for Gorsuch is anyway. If they don't filibuster this, it's as good as voting for full throated fascism.
We're not retaking the Senate in 2018, if we have to sacrifice a Hietkamp or Manchin, or even a fucking Micheal Bennett, as punishment for voting Gorsuch, it must be done to put the fear of God into the rest of the would be traitors. Our Democrats must learn, or they must go down in flames.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:21 PM on March 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
It must be their last act as a Democrat, or in elected office. It will be a betrayal of everything the party should stand for, and even the very idea of a cohesive party existing at all. If not this, then we might as well give it over to one party Trumpist rule in perpetuity, because that's what a vote for Gorsuch is anyway. If they don't filibuster this, it's as good as voting for full throated fascism.
We're not retaking the Senate in 2018, if we have to sacrifice a Hietkamp or Manchin, or even a fucking Micheal Bennett, as punishment for voting Gorsuch, it must be done to put the fear of God into the rest of the would be traitors. Our Democrats must learn, or they must go down in flames.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:21 PM on March 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
We're not retaking the Senate in 2018, if we have to sacrifice a Hietkamp or Manchin, or even a fucking Micheal Bennett, as punishment for voting Gorsuch, it must be done to put the fear of God into the rest of the would be traitors. Our Democrats must learn, or they must go down in flames.
Fuck that shit.
If 'our' Democrats have to vote for every single Republican plan that will pass with or without their support in order to retake the Senate in 2018, then they should fucking vote for those plans with a song in their heart. I'm a utilitarian. We can't afford this sort of nonsense right now, because this sort of nonsense is what got us here.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 8:28 PM on March 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
Fuck that shit.
If 'our' Democrats have to vote for every single Republican plan that will pass with or without their support in order to retake the Senate in 2018, then they should fucking vote for those plans with a song in their heart. I'm a utilitarian. We can't afford this sort of nonsense right now, because this sort of nonsense is what got us here.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 8:28 PM on March 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
Bianna Golodryga speaking on MSNBC just now said "This president, this administration, seem to know more Russians than I do, and I know a lot of Russians." Golodryga was born in the Soviet Union, speaks fluent Russian, and earned a degree in Russian Studies from the University of Texas at Austin.
posted by XMLicious at 8:28 PM on March 21, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 8:28 PM on March 21, 2017 [42 favorites]
If 'our' Democrats have to vote for every single Republican plan that will pass with or without their support in order to retake the Senate in 2018, then they should fucking vote for those plans with a song in their heart. I'm a utilitarian. We can't afford this sort of nonsense right now, because this sort of nonsense is what got us here.
Uhh, what? Voting for TrumpCare will help retake the Senate? Voting for Gorsuch will inspire Democratic turnout? I can't even...
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:34 PM on March 21, 2017 [23 favorites]
Uhh, what? Voting for TrumpCare will help retake the Senate? Voting for Gorsuch will inspire Democratic turnout? I can't even...
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:34 PM on March 21, 2017 [23 favorites]
The Anne Frank Center is coming for Tim Allen, who compared liberal Hollywood to Nazi Germany
“Tim, have you lost your mind?” said Steven Goldstein, Executive Director of the Anne Frank Center for Mutual Respect. “No one in Hollywood today is subjecting you or anyone else to what the Nazis imposed on Jews in the 1930s – the world’s most evil program of dehumanization, imprisonment and mass brutality, implemented by an entire national government, as the prelude for the genocide of nearly an entire people. Sorry, Tim, that’s just not the same as getting turned down for a movie role. It’s time for you to leave your bubble to apologize to the Jewish people and, to be sure, the other peoples also targeted by the Nazis.” #NeverAgain #Antisemitismposted by Room 641-A at 8:37 PM on March 21, 2017 [56 favorites]
Wow. The WSJ has finally had enough: A President’s Credibility (use this twitter link to bypass paywall)
If President Trump announces that North Korea launched a missile that landed within 100 miles of Hawaii, would most Americans believe him? Would the rest of the world? We’re not sure, which speaks to the damage that Mr. Trump is doing to his Presidency with his seemingly endless stream of exaggerations, evidence-free accusations, implausible denials and other falsehoods.posted by zachlipton at 8:41 PM on March 21, 2017 [80 favorites]
...
Two months into his Presidency, Gallup has Mr. Trump’s approval rating at 39%. No doubt Mr. Trump considers that fake news, but if he doesn’t show more respect for the truth most Americans may conclude he’s a fake President.
Fully public coordination between Trump's 2020 campaign and superpacs. Whoops!
You're right. That is highly illegal, not that it matters with this administration and a neutered Federal Elections Commission. You may recall that back in October Trump talked about forming a SuperPAC after the election to attack all the people who betrayed him in the Republican Party. Of course that was when he thought he was going to lose and would be a private citizen allowed to form a SuperPAC. Trump, in his dementia, has simply forgotten that things have changed.
Now he is president and running for re-election that is totally illegal coordination. The man is deranged.
posted by JackFlash at 8:43 PM on March 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
You're right. That is highly illegal, not that it matters with this administration and a neutered Federal Elections Commission. You may recall that back in October Trump talked about forming a SuperPAC after the election to attack all the people who betrayed him in the Republican Party. Of course that was when he thought he was going to lose and would be a private citizen allowed to form a SuperPAC. Trump, in his dementia, has simply forgotten that things have changed.
Now he is president and running for re-election that is totally illegal coordination. The man is deranged.
posted by JackFlash at 8:43 PM on March 21, 2017 [19 favorites]
"Let's vote for all the Republican priorities! That'll show the country why they should elect us instead next time!" [apparently real]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:44 PM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:44 PM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
And since joining the court, Judge Gorsuch has been a semiregular speaker at the mogul’s annual dove-hunting retreats for the wealthy and politically prominent at his 60-square-mile Eagles Nest Ranch.
I have been to Eagle's Nest Ranch. Did some training for a corporate retreat staged there. It's a swanky place, done in rustic style but very well appointed. Shot skeet (no doves!) & sat on the porch of the main cabin while drinking Johnnie Walker Blue from the open bar & smoking an LA Laker's labeled cigar from the humidor. I highly recommend it if you ever get the chance.
posted by scalefree at 8:47 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have been to Eagle's Nest Ranch. Did some training for a corporate retreat staged there. It's a swanky place, done in rustic style but very well appointed. Shot skeet (no doves!) & sat on the porch of the main cabin while drinking Johnnie Walker Blue from the open bar & smoking an LA Laker's labeled cigar from the humidor. I highly recommend it if you ever get the chance.
posted by scalefree at 8:47 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Room 641-A:
Is this money laundering scheme:
the same as this money laundering scheme:
At first glance I thought they were but it doesn't seem so. Neither article has any crossover with the other at this time that I can see. Perhaps someone else will chime in that parses it differently.
I am not surprised by any of this. Russian/American Crime $$$ + Major International Banks + Proof and Outrage = JACKSHIT Happening. Must be nice to be rich/corporate/above the law.
*Flips a hundred tables like a domino chain reaction*
posted by futz at 8:47 PM on March 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
Is this money laundering scheme:
the same as this money laundering scheme:
At first glance I thought they were but it doesn't seem so. Neither article has any crossover with the other at this time that I can see. Perhaps someone else will chime in that parses it differently.
I am not surprised by any of this. Russian/American Crime $$$ + Major International Banks + Proof and Outrage = JACKSHIT Happening. Must be nice to be rich/corporate/above the law.
*Flips a hundred tables like a domino chain reaction*
posted by futz at 8:47 PM on March 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
From the WSJ editorial:
"Yet the President clings to his assertion like a drunk to an empty gin bottle."
posted by chris24 at 8:48 PM on March 21, 2017 [43 favorites]
"Yet the President clings to his assertion like a drunk to an empty gin bottle."
posted by chris24 at 8:48 PM on March 21, 2017 [43 favorites]
"Let's vote for all the Republican priorities! That'll show the country why they should elect us instead next time!" [apparently real]
No. Saying Manchin should vote for certain things if his vote won't make any difference anyway in order to keep his seat is not the same as "Let's vote for all the Republican priorities!".
posted by Justinian at 8:49 PM on March 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
No. Saying Manchin should vote for certain things if his vote won't make any difference anyway in order to keep his seat is not the same as "Let's vote for all the Republican priorities!".
posted by Justinian at 8:49 PM on March 21, 2017 [13 favorites]
Things are going to get ugly if Bannon catches him with the gin.
posted by Artw at 8:50 PM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:50 PM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
Voting Gorsuch gives them the bipartisan mantle. It legitimizes their theft of a SCOTUS seat. It makes a mockery of the entire existence of the Democratic party.
Fucking filibuster. Or they're traitors.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:52 PM on March 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
Fucking filibuster. Or they're traitors.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:52 PM on March 21, 2017 [20 favorites]
Looks like they found more of that voter fraud the GOP keeps complaining about, except... Former Colorado GOP chairman Steven Curtis charged with voter fraud. He was state party chair from 1997-1999 and ran the advisory board for the Denver Tea Party Patriots in 2011. He's accused of filling in his wife's absentee ballot and forging her signature. And he even spoke out about voter fraud on his radio show last year, and I'm going to correct him because he might just be wrong here:
posted by zachlipton at 8:57 PM on March 21, 2017 [39 favorites]
Curtis spoke about voter fraud ahead of last year’s election.In other news, that handpicked reporter Tillerson took with him to Asia largely wrote a puff piece (of course), but also revealed that Tillerson didn't want the job and only took it because his wife told him to do it. Which really don't inspire confidence.
“It seems to be, and correct me if I’m wrong here, but virtually every case of voter fraud I can remember in my lifetime was committed by Democrats,” he told KLZ 560.
posted by zachlipton at 8:57 PM on March 21, 2017 [39 favorites]
‘I’ll Criticize Judges,’ Trump Says, Hours After a Scolding for Doing Just That
“Somebody said I should not criticize judges. O.K. I’ll criticize judges,” Mr. Trump said on Tuesday night at a fund-raising dinner for the National Republican Congressional Committee — reiterating his pique at a federal court judge in Hawaii who last week placed a stay on his second travel order.
...
“We had to do health care first,” Mr. Trump said. He spoke after Speaker Paul D. Ryan, who sold him on the strategy, and exhorted the crowd to support the president’s agenda.
Mr. Ryan blasted the health care policy that was one of President Barack Obama’s domestic legacy issues as an “arrogant, paternalistic, condescending law.” He urged his fellow House Republicans — some of whom still oppose the measure — to “go out and deliver on our promise.”
The event raised $30 million for Republican House candidates, a record for the committee’s March dinner, according to party officials.
Fucking Hell. UnBonus of Cheney being at the event.
posted by futz at 9:01 PM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
“Somebody said I should not criticize judges. O.K. I’ll criticize judges,” Mr. Trump said on Tuesday night at a fund-raising dinner for the National Republican Congressional Committee — reiterating his pique at a federal court judge in Hawaii who last week placed a stay on his second travel order.
...
“We had to do health care first,” Mr. Trump said. He spoke after Speaker Paul D. Ryan, who sold him on the strategy, and exhorted the crowd to support the president’s agenda.
Mr. Ryan blasted the health care policy that was one of President Barack Obama’s domestic legacy issues as an “arrogant, paternalistic, condescending law.” He urged his fellow House Republicans — some of whom still oppose the measure — to “go out and deliver on our promise.”
The event raised $30 million for Republican House candidates, a record for the committee’s March dinner, according to party officials.
Fucking Hell. UnBonus of Cheney being at the event.
posted by futz at 9:01 PM on March 21, 2017 [9 favorites]
The Anne Frank Center is coming for Tim Allen, who compared liberal Hollywood to Nazi Germany
I don't believe I had ever heard of the Anne Frank Center before last year. I'm not saying it's not worth quoting, but it doesn't appear to be a broad-based and well-established communal organisation.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:07 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't believe I had ever heard of the Anne Frank Center before last year. I'm not saying it's not worth quoting, but it doesn't appear to be a broad-based and well-established communal organisation.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:07 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Per Wikipedia the Anne Frank center has been going since 1959.
posted by Artw at 9:15 PM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:15 PM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
Reading between the lines of this JTA article, it looks like although Otto Frank started the organisation it was somewhat moribund until it suddenly got a new and somewhat firebrand director.
posted by jaduncan at 9:19 PM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
"Now Goldstein has the chance to play a new part. Starting Tuesday, he’ll be the executive director of the Anne Frank Center for Mutual Respect, a relatively obscure Holocaust memorial organization based in downtown Manhattan. Goldstein wants to turn it into a national leader in fighting hate and discrimination of all kinds.Goldstein also memorably refers to himself as "the Harvey Milk of New Jersey" for previous LGBT work. Normally I'd roll my eyes a bit, but it's hard to hate someone dedicated to rhetorically punching Nazis. But yeah, largely the mouthpiece for a very outspoken director.
Founded in 1959 by Otto Frank, Anne’s father, the center was originally the American counterpart to the Anne Frank House in Amsterdam. The house shows visitors where the family hid during the Holocaust, along with running educational programs about the Holocaust and the dangers of anti-Semitism and racism. It has run programs in more than 50 countries, from Japan to South Africa.
Goldstein plans to expand that mission by establishing five institutes, led by prominent activists and academics, that will focus on civil rights, human rights, women’s rights, religious discrimination and journalism. He plans to release policy reports on those topics.
He also aims to open offices in Los Angeles, South Florida and a dozen other cities with large Jewish communities, and hold annual conferences for youth and women’s rights activists. He wants to support young filmmakers documenting social justice struggles."
posted by jaduncan at 9:19 PM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
Important addendum: the ADL like him.
posted by jaduncan at 9:21 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by jaduncan at 9:21 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
What's the fuck is this rambling shit?
Americanese?
posted by nubs at 9:23 PM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Americanese?
posted by nubs at 9:23 PM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
CNN has a story about the electronics ban: AQAP trying to hide explosives in laptop batteries, official says
Intelligence obtained in recent weeks found that an al Qaeda affiliate was perfecting techniques for hiding explosives in batteries and battery compartments of electronic devices, according to a US official.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:24 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
The discovery that al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula was looking to exploit batteries and their compartments in laptops and other commercial electronic devices led the United States and United Kingdom to ban devices larger than a cellphone from certain flights, the US official told CNN.
"I think we're going to have some great surprises. I hope that it's going to all work out."
- President Donald J. Trump
posted by contraption at 9:30 PM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
- President Donald J. Trump
posted by contraption at 9:30 PM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
AQAP trying to hide explosives in laptop batteries, official says
I just hope AQAP never realises how much can be stuffed into a colon. If they do, we're all going to have to get enemas before a flight.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:32 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
I just hope AQAP never realises how much can be stuffed into a colon. If they do, we're all going to have to get enemas before a flight.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:32 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
"I think we're going to have some great surprises. I hope that it's going to all work out." - President Donald J. Trump
About that... Matthew Rosenberg says that someone is trying to shop a purported piss tape around Europe. He cautions that it's probably fake.
posted by zachlipton at 9:33 PM on March 21, 2017
About that... Matthew Rosenberg says that someone is trying to shop a purported piss tape around Europe. He cautions that it's probably fake.
posted by zachlipton at 9:33 PM on March 21, 2017
Just spoke to a Trump supporter Uber driver for a bit, who was an immigrant from middle east, his take was that he likes Trump because he's crazy, like Putin. "He tells you what he really thinks" (I think his idea was that he is frank and forthcoming, with no filtering). He did not like Clinton and Obama because, "they think they're smart but there are not" - I got the feeling that he meant that they are reserved and look thoughtful and carefully choose words, and he perceived that as pretense. I was taken aback and didn't feel like having a long argument so I just said I don't like Trump. He walked back his statements a bit and said he's not sure he's good for president but he's crazy in a good way and he liked that. (But I definitely felt he voted or would vote Trump all the way).
We talked for no longer than a minute but I got the feeling that in this case it was mostly rooted in anti-intellectualism.
posted by rainy at 9:36 PM on March 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
We talked for no longer than a minute but I got the feeling that in this case it was mostly rooted in anti-intellectualism.
posted by rainy at 9:36 PM on March 21, 2017 [18 favorites]
President Trump took aim at former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick on Monday, claiming teams do not want to sign him because of his refusal to stand for the national anthem.
Colin Kaepernick donates $50K to Meals on Wheels
posted by futz at 9:39 PM on March 21, 2017 [74 favorites]
Colin Kaepernick donates $50K to Meals on Wheels
posted by futz at 9:39 PM on March 21, 2017 [74 favorites]
AQAP trying to hide explosives in laptop batteries, official says
Is this true? Is this credible? Who knows? Trust has been eroded here.
posted by Artw at 9:48 PM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Is this true? Is this credible? Who knows? Trust has been eroded here.
posted by Artw at 9:48 PM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
So I'm not the only one who thinks Gorsuch is smarmy. Dana Milbank, WaPo: Good-golly Gorsuch may turn out to be a rascal on the bench
The nomination of Neil Gorsuch presents the Senate with a constitutional dilemma: Is this nation prepared to have Eddie Haskell serving a lifetime appointment on the Supreme Court?posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:51 PM on March 21, 2017 [10 favorites]
The most noteworthy thing to emerge from Gorsuch’s testimony Tuesday before the Senate Judiciary Committee wasn’t his judicial philosophy (conservative), his credentials (considerable) nor even the likelihood of confirmation (virtually certain). What stood out was his aw-shucks, good-golly manner: Gorsuch played a folksy sycophant straight out of the 1950s…
It’s a good bet that Gorsuch, once he has charmed the grown-ups and secured confirmation, will, like Haskell, reveal himself to be a rascal and cause all manner of mischief on the court with abortion and gun rights, money in politics and presidential power.
Is this true? Is this credible? Who knows? Trust has been eroded here.
Agreed, but you've got the UK banning them as well, and Canada considering it. This strikes me as a Five Eyes kind of thing - let's watch and see what Australia and NZ do.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:55 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Agreed, but you've got the UK banning them as well, and Canada considering it. This strikes me as a Five Eyes kind of thing - let's watch and see what Australia and NZ do.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:55 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Is this true? Is this credible? Who knows? Trust has been eroded here.
You could potentially take out a cell or two and put some C4 in. A thin layer across all of the cells might actually be quite hard to pick out, but then the issue is more finding the space. Of course, if you are willing to put in slightly flatter cells, you could even have something that powered up the machine when tested. If done well, I could see it working; it's certainly not entirely implausible.
posted by jaduncan at 9:56 PM on March 21, 2017
You could potentially take out a cell or two and put some C4 in. A thin layer across all of the cells might actually be quite hard to pick out, but then the issue is more finding the space. Of course, if you are willing to put in slightly flatter cells, you could even have something that powered up the machine when tested. If done well, I could see it working; it's certainly not entirely implausible.
posted by jaduncan at 9:56 PM on March 21, 2017
I just hope AQAP never realises how much can be stuffed into a colon. If they do, we're all going to have to get enemas before a flight.
Countermeasures are already in place.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:57 PM on March 21, 2017
I just hope AQAP never realises how much can be stuffed into a colon.
It's been tried. Didn't work so well.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:59 PM on March 21, 2017
It's been tried. Didn't work so well.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:59 PM on March 21, 2017
Does this Bill Palmer guy have any credibility?
Jason Chaffetz’s largest donor is an illegal pyramid scheme that does business in Russia
posted by Artw at 10:14 PM on March 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
Jason Chaffetz’s largest donor is an illegal pyramid scheme that does business in Russia
posted by Artw at 10:14 PM on March 21, 2017 [14 favorites]
No one seems to be paying attention to Tillerson threatening North Korea. Tillerson has done fuck all in diplomacy with NK and went straight to, we are going to bomb you. Earlier today I listened to a Republican Administration surrogate talk (PRI the world) about the little ways they could engage, such as bomb a NK villa that no one is at, take out some strategic position that won't really threaten the NK regime enough that they would bomb the ever living fuck out of Seoul, weird other things that didn't make sense. This guy said it like it was no big deal. We can just waltz in, bomb some shit, and NK will be so cowed that they won't respond.
I think the current Republican administration is looking for a crisis, or to manufacture one. Ta-da, war with North Korea and a proxy war with China. This will give them cover for an authoritarian take over of the US government. I feel creepy and conspiracy theorist in stating this, and really it seems too soon. I would have thought it would be much closer to the 2018 midterm elections. But, it has felt all along that this administration is in a hurry to take all they can.
It seems strange, because Tillerson always struck me as a choice to help usher in oil deals with Moscow. It made sense since he doesn't seem to give a fuck about any kind of diplomatic mission. He just seemed to be waiting around to get his biz done with Putin. But now, let's go to war with NK!
posted by Belle O'Cosity at 10:29 PM on March 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
I think the current Republican administration is looking for a crisis, or to manufacture one. Ta-da, war with North Korea and a proxy war with China. This will give them cover for an authoritarian take over of the US government. I feel creepy and conspiracy theorist in stating this, and really it seems too soon. I would have thought it would be much closer to the 2018 midterm elections. But, it has felt all along that this administration is in a hurry to take all they can.
It seems strange, because Tillerson always struck me as a choice to help usher in oil deals with Moscow. It made sense since he doesn't seem to give a fuck about any kind of diplomatic mission. He just seemed to be waiting around to get his biz done with Putin. But now, let's go to war with NK!
posted by Belle O'Cosity at 10:29 PM on March 21, 2017 [8 favorites]
He's apparently skipping some NATO meeting because he needs a couple of weeks of rest before jetting off on a trip to Moscow, purpose unknown and most likely sinister.
posted by Artw at 10:32 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:32 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
They seem to have waffled on the NATO meeting.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:44 PM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Chrysostom at 10:44 PM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
"We are certainly appreciative of the effort to accommodate Secretary Tillerson," Toner told reporters. "We have offered alternative dates that the secretary could attend."
He also sought to allay European concerns by saying that "the United States remains 100 percent committed to NATO."
"We do not additionally guarantee that Secretary Tillerson will be awake for the meeting."
posted by Artw at 10:46 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
He also sought to allay European concerns by saying that "the United States remains 100 percent committed to NATO."
"We do not additionally guarantee that Secretary Tillerson will be awake for the meeting."
posted by Artw at 10:46 PM on March 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Do...they have a tiny sense of shame after all? Is the empty gin bottle slipping through their fingers a little bit?
posted by zachlipton at 10:51 PM on March 21, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 10:51 PM on March 21, 2017
Man who attended 45 rallies now opposes Trump
posted by futz at 11:37 PM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by futz at 11:37 PM on March 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
From Trump Warns House Republicans: Repeal Health Law or Lose Your Seats:
posted by zachlipton at 11:37 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
For other House members, the bill has been an opportunity to deal. Mr. Trump promised Representative Mario Diaz-Balart, Republican of Florida, that he would hold to his pledge to consider reversing President Barack Obama’s opening with Cuba if Mr. Diaz-Balart backed the measure, the White House official said, which he did in the Budget Committee last week.Wow. That deal is probably the only reason the thing made it through the Budget Committee.
posted by zachlipton at 11:37 PM on March 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
Thank god we have the Diaz-Balart clan to look out for the interests of the common people
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:58 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:58 PM on March 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Mr. Trump promised Representative Mario Diaz-Balart, Republican of Florida, that he would hold to his pledge to consider reversing President Barack Obama’s opening with Cuba ...
Oh, Diaz-Balart is going to end up so screwed.
"Hey Charlie, run up and kick the ball. I promise to hold on to my pledge to consider not snatching it away!"
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:12 AM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
Oh, Diaz-Balart is going to end up so screwed.
"Hey Charlie, run up and kick the ball. I promise to hold on to my pledge to consider not snatching it away!"
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:12 AM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
The bribe the Republicans added to the AHCA for upstate New York reps brings the scumminess here to a whole new level. It's like North Carolina state legislature levels of shittiness.
posted by Justinian at 12:14 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 12:14 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Man who attended 45 rallies now opposes Trump
"I believed everything he said. Now I don't believe that he was true in his word when he was speaking. I think he was hunting for votes, to be honest with you."
I mean, score one for team relative sanity, but do you think? What gave it away? Was it the utterly improbable promises or the complete lack of even internal consistency? No? Well.
posted by jaduncan at 12:39 AM on March 22, 2017 [52 favorites]
"I believed everything he said. Now I don't believe that he was true in his word when he was speaking. I think he was hunting for votes, to be honest with you."
I mean, score one for team relative sanity, but do you think? What gave it away? Was it the utterly improbable promises or the complete lack of even internal consistency? No? Well.
posted by jaduncan at 12:39 AM on March 22, 2017 [52 favorites]
In these incredibly dark days, this might be as good a time as any to quote from Obama's last press conference.
I've been asked -- I've had some off-the-record conversations with some journalists where they said, okay, you seem like you're okay, but really, really, what are you thinking? (Laughter.) And I've said, no, what I'm saying really is what I think. I believe in this country. I believe in the American people. I believe that people are more good than bad. I believe tragic things happen, I think there's evil in the world, but I think that at the end of the day, if we work hard, and if we're true to those things in us that feel true and feel right, that the world gets a little better each time.
That's what this presidency has tried to be about. And I see that in the young people I've worked with. I couldn't be prouder of them. And so this is not just a matter of "No Drama Obama" -- this is what I really believe. It is true that behind closed doors I curse more than I do publicly. (Laughter.) And sometimes I get mad and frustrated, like everybody else does. But at my core, I think we're going to be okay. We just have to fight for it. We have to work for it, and not take it for granted. And I know that you will help us do that.
We've got to help him/them do that.
posted by CommonSense at 12:48 AM on March 22, 2017 [36 favorites]
I've been asked -- I've had some off-the-record conversations with some journalists where they said, okay, you seem like you're okay, but really, really, what are you thinking? (Laughter.) And I've said, no, what I'm saying really is what I think. I believe in this country. I believe in the American people. I believe that people are more good than bad. I believe tragic things happen, I think there's evil in the world, but I think that at the end of the day, if we work hard, and if we're true to those things in us that feel true and feel right, that the world gets a little better each time.
That's what this presidency has tried to be about. And I see that in the young people I've worked with. I couldn't be prouder of them. And so this is not just a matter of "No Drama Obama" -- this is what I really believe. It is true that behind closed doors I curse more than I do publicly. (Laughter.) And sometimes I get mad and frustrated, like everybody else does. But at my core, I think we're going to be okay. We just have to fight for it. We have to work for it, and not take it for granted. And I know that you will help us do that.
We've got to help him/them do that.
posted by CommonSense at 12:48 AM on March 22, 2017 [36 favorites]
Mod note: Slightly Exasperated Reminder: PLEASE don't just link single tweets. If you think something is really helpful and important information, PLEASE GIVE SOME CONTEXT / CONTENT. Don't do mystery meat. Please don't do live-blog reactions to opaque links. "What's the fuck is this rambling shit?" (for one example) as a link is totally not helpful for people reading this thread to gain information, and the opposite of helpful for people trying to avoid duplicating links or info in overlong threads. Please.
posted by taz (staff) at 1:13 AM on March 22, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 1:13 AM on March 22, 2017 [32 favorites]
OMG, that excerpt from Obama's last press conference. It's like from a dream world where every day I didn't wake up into a new moral/physical/legal/existential crisis brought on by President Shitgibbon.
posted by supercrayon at 1:32 AM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by supercrayon at 1:32 AM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
Trump attending NATO meeting that's... that's gonna be some interesting shit and no mistake.
I wonder if there's any chance someone will tell him how, just using facts, NATO works? That would be really great. If he got up there and acted like he had some idea of what the fuck was going on.
Ha ha ha ha. Oh - I make myself laugh sometimes. So funny. So goddamn funny. So hilarious. A President who - oh! I think I'm getting a stitch in my side from laughing so hard!
(I wonder if the other members of NATO will freeze him out in the lunch room, like, "Look there's that asshole, let's not let him sit with us, quick, Poland, put your bag on the other seat, tell him Lithuania is sitting there...")
posted by From Bklyn at 2:30 AM on March 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
I wonder if there's any chance someone will tell him how, just using facts, NATO works? That would be really great. If he got up there and acted like he had some idea of what the fuck was going on.
Ha ha ha ha. Oh - I make myself laugh sometimes. So funny. So goddamn funny. So hilarious. A President who - oh! I think I'm getting a stitch in my side from laughing so hard!
(I wonder if the other members of NATO will freeze him out in the lunch room, like, "Look there's that asshole, let's not let him sit with us, quick, Poland, put your bag on the other seat, tell him Lithuania is sitting there...")
posted by From Bklyn at 2:30 AM on March 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
Can anyone answer this question for me: Why does Trump think he has to pass healthcare reform before he can pass tax reform or anything else?
Is anyone else confused by this? He says it over and over.
"We want a very big tax cut," Trump said at a campaign rally Monday night in Louisville, Kentucky. "But we cannot do that until we keep our promise to repeal and replace the disaster known as Obamacare."
[...]
“I want to get to taxes, I want to cut the hell out of taxes,’ Trump said by way of introduction. “But before I can do that — I would have loved to have put it first, I’ll be honest —there is one more very important thing that we have to do: We are going to repeal and replace the horrible, disastrous Obamacare.”
Now, the question "Why does Trump keep saying this" probably has one pretty simple direct answer, which is that it's what he's been told. He doesn't know a thing about how the House or Senate operate, and he's not particularly interested in learning, so I'd imagine he's just taking someone's word for it. But why are the people around him telling him this? Is there an actual reason that healthcare reform has to be passed before tax reform can?
There are obviously plenty of reasons for Trump/Republicans to want to pursue healthcare reform, even if this particular bill is hard to swallow. Given that most of them campaigned on repealing Obamacare, they feel a pressure to 'deliver', and the conservative news bubble is convinced that Obamacare is in a "death spiral" anyway. What I don't get is this insistence on the order of events. Why couldn't Trump have pursued tax reform or an infrastructure bill first? Why couldn't he have worked on them all simultaneously? Why is he letting his crucial 'first 100 days' be dominated by in-fighting over a healthcare bill that he doesn't care about enough to even bother to learn what's in it?
Paul Ryan and Reince Priebus telling him they ought to do healthcare reform first, I could understand. But why is Bannon letting his prize pony sink his political capital on something so irrelevant to his political goals? Is there actually some real reason that healthcare reform has to come before tax reform (i.e. maybe some obscure senate rule I don't know about? or something)? Or if there's not, who convinced Trump that there's a set order to the legislative goals that presidents can pursue? And why?
Any help on this question would be appreciated. I keep hearing Trump make this claim, and I can't for the life of me figure out what's actually behind it.
posted by Rumpled at 2:44 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Is anyone else confused by this? He says it over and over.
"We want a very big tax cut," Trump said at a campaign rally Monday night in Louisville, Kentucky. "But we cannot do that until we keep our promise to repeal and replace the disaster known as Obamacare."
[...]
“I want to get to taxes, I want to cut the hell out of taxes,’ Trump said by way of introduction. “But before I can do that — I would have loved to have put it first, I’ll be honest —there is one more very important thing that we have to do: We are going to repeal and replace the horrible, disastrous Obamacare.”
Now, the question "Why does Trump keep saying this" probably has one pretty simple direct answer, which is that it's what he's been told. He doesn't know a thing about how the House or Senate operate, and he's not particularly interested in learning, so I'd imagine he's just taking someone's word for it. But why are the people around him telling him this? Is there an actual reason that healthcare reform has to be passed before tax reform can?
There are obviously plenty of reasons for Trump/Republicans to want to pursue healthcare reform, even if this particular bill is hard to swallow. Given that most of them campaigned on repealing Obamacare, they feel a pressure to 'deliver', and the conservative news bubble is convinced that Obamacare is in a "death spiral" anyway. What I don't get is this insistence on the order of events. Why couldn't Trump have pursued tax reform or an infrastructure bill first? Why couldn't he have worked on them all simultaneously? Why is he letting his crucial 'first 100 days' be dominated by in-fighting over a healthcare bill that he doesn't care about enough to even bother to learn what's in it?
Paul Ryan and Reince Priebus telling him they ought to do healthcare reform first, I could understand. But why is Bannon letting his prize pony sink his political capital on something so irrelevant to his political goals? Is there actually some real reason that healthcare reform has to come before tax reform (i.e. maybe some obscure senate rule I don't know about? or something)? Or if there's not, who convinced Trump that there's a set order to the legislative goals that presidents can pursue? And why?
Any help on this question would be appreciated. I keep hearing Trump make this claim, and I can't for the life of me figure out what's actually behind it.
posted by Rumpled at 2:44 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
And the people at the Trump rally actually think it's their taxes that are going to be cut.
posted by thelonius at 2:50 AM on March 22, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 2:50 AM on March 22, 2017 [24 favorites]
One reason they chose to do ACA repeal first is that it's the thing they've been campaigning on for 7 years. But also, it's because they knew it would be an unpopular bill so they've stuffed a bunch of rich people tax credits to essentially hide them or blame the budgetary cost on Obama. If passed, that new budget number becomes the baseline for the tax reform reconciliation bill -- they have to do reconciliation on a revenue neutral basis (w some exceptions), so banking these tax cuts now reduces the amount of revenue they have to meet when doing tax reform. So they get all their rich ppl tax cuts now, under the cover of ACA repeal, then they get a few more later under the cover of middle class tax reform.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:56 AM on March 22, 2017 [51 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 2:56 AM on March 22, 2017 [51 favorites]
Following up on the above: the lower basis means they don't have to sunset the tax cuts after 10 years, as happened with the Bush tax cuts.
posted by notyou at 3:10 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by notyou at 3:10 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Can anyone answer this question for me: Why does Trump think he has to pass healthcare reform before he can pass tax reform or anything else?
The simplest reason, as you note, is that it's what he's been told, and he continues to repeat it as if it's an inevitable law of the universe. Of course, it's not; they could be done in any order, especially if they were able to put forward proposals that can win them 60 votes in the Senate, but there are reasons why Ryan really wants to do what he's doing, and good reason why convincing Trump that it simply has to be done this way is the easiest way to keep him happy.
First, it's important to note that "pass healthcare reform" is really a fancy way of saying "pass tax cuts for the rich." I mean, the bill denies health insurance to tens of millions of people, so it's not exactly doing anything for healthcare. What it does do is repeal the taxes that paid for Obamacare. That's an average annual tax cut of $33,000 for the top 1%, retroactive to the current tax year. The top 0.1% get $207,000 a year.
In short, the AHCA is really just a tax cut that has the side effect of taking away people's heatlhcare. The framing of "pass healthcare reform before he can pass tax reform" is deceptive, whether Trump has enough of a clue what's going on to actually know he's being deceptive or not. It's really just "pass a tax cut [with added bonus of denying people healthcare] before he can pass an even bigger tax cut."
Second, as melissasaurus just pointed out, the whole thing is a budget shell game. Passing the AHCA first would give them a ~$600 billion head start toward the next bill with a couple trillion dollars in tax cuts that they could force through under reconciliation. It's like setting the scale at 0 when there's actually 600 billion pounds already on it. They use increasingly ridiculous tricks to argue that massive tax cuts will really be revenue neutral, when it's incredibly well established that cutting taxes means the government receives less in tax revenue.
posted by zachlipton at 3:11 AM on March 22, 2017 [51 favorites]
The simplest reason, as you note, is that it's what he's been told, and he continues to repeat it as if it's an inevitable law of the universe. Of course, it's not; they could be done in any order, especially if they were able to put forward proposals that can win them 60 votes in the Senate, but there are reasons why Ryan really wants to do what he's doing, and good reason why convincing Trump that it simply has to be done this way is the easiest way to keep him happy.
First, it's important to note that "pass healthcare reform" is really a fancy way of saying "pass tax cuts for the rich." I mean, the bill denies health insurance to tens of millions of people, so it's not exactly doing anything for healthcare. What it does do is repeal the taxes that paid for Obamacare. That's an average annual tax cut of $33,000 for the top 1%, retroactive to the current tax year. The top 0.1% get $207,000 a year.
In short, the AHCA is really just a tax cut that has the side effect of taking away people's heatlhcare. The framing of "pass healthcare reform before he can pass tax reform" is deceptive, whether Trump has enough of a clue what's going on to actually know he's being deceptive or not. It's really just "pass a tax cut [with added bonus of denying people healthcare] before he can pass an even bigger tax cut."
Second, as melissasaurus just pointed out, the whole thing is a budget shell game. Passing the AHCA first would give them a ~$600 billion head start toward the next bill with a couple trillion dollars in tax cuts that they could force through under reconciliation. It's like setting the scale at 0 when there's actually 600 billion pounds already on it. They use increasingly ridiculous tricks to argue that massive tax cuts will really be revenue neutral, when it's incredibly well established that cutting taxes means the government receives less in tax revenue.
posted by zachlipton at 3:11 AM on March 22, 2017 [51 favorites]
"Yet the President clings to his assertion like a drunk to an empty gin bottle."
Nice Nixon callback
posted by thelonius at 3:39 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Nice Nixon callback
posted by thelonius at 3:39 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Is this money laundering scheme:
"Bank that lent $300m to Trump linked to Russian money laundering scam"
the same as this money laundering scheme:
"For two years ending in 2013, the FBI had a court-approved warrant to eavesdrop on a sophisticated Russian organized crime money laundering network that operated out of unit 63A in Trump Tower"
No. If you click through, it says second one used banks in Cyprus (like the one commerce secretary Wilbur Ross has so heavily invested in) whereas the first one is about Deutsche Bank, which is German.
...But there are some links between Cyriot banks and Deutsche Bank, so maybe not totally unrelated. For instance... "[Wilbur] Ross recruited a high-profile banker with close ties to Russia, former Deutsche Bank chief executive Josef Ackermann, to serve as chairman of the bank [of Cyprus]." (from "invested" link)
Nevertheless, taken at face value, these are separate scandals.
And they both seem to be separate from (and operate differently than) the $10 billion Russian money laundering scam which Deutsche Bank was already fined $630 million for.
By the way, the reason Trump owes Deutsche Bank $300 million is that they are one of the only banks that will still lend to him, due to his habit of defaulting. It's kind of remarkable that they do still lend to him, in fact, since he has defaulted on their loans too. According to Rachel Maddow, though, he did pay back at least one major debt to Deutsche Bank, after he made a $60 million dollar profit selling that mansion in Florida to that Russian oligarch (Ryobolovlev) that Trump's friend Wilbur Ross knew from his work in Cyprus.
But I digress. Just to totally clear, nominally the 1) "Mirror trades" scam for which Deutsche Bank was already fined 2) the newly discovered Deutsche Bank scam involving the Moldovan court system and 3) The money laundering scam involving Cypriot banks which led to that wiretap of the Russian organized crime boss at Trump Tower...
... are three separate Russian money laundering scandals. The fact that all three involve foreign banks linked to Trump or people in Trump's orbit is probably just a coincidence... according to Republicans who don't want to appoint a special prosecutor.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:42 AM on March 22, 2017 [52 favorites]
"Bank that lent $300m to Trump linked to Russian money laundering scam"
the same as this money laundering scheme:
"For two years ending in 2013, the FBI had a court-approved warrant to eavesdrop on a sophisticated Russian organized crime money laundering network that operated out of unit 63A in Trump Tower"
No. If you click through, it says second one used banks in Cyprus (like the one commerce secretary Wilbur Ross has so heavily invested in) whereas the first one is about Deutsche Bank, which is German.
...But there are some links between Cyriot banks and Deutsche Bank, so maybe not totally unrelated. For instance... "[Wilbur] Ross recruited a high-profile banker with close ties to Russia, former Deutsche Bank chief executive Josef Ackermann, to serve as chairman of the bank [of Cyprus]." (from "invested" link)
Nevertheless, taken at face value, these are separate scandals.
And they both seem to be separate from (and operate differently than) the $10 billion Russian money laundering scam which Deutsche Bank was already fined $630 million for.
By the way, the reason Trump owes Deutsche Bank $300 million is that they are one of the only banks that will still lend to him, due to his habit of defaulting. It's kind of remarkable that they do still lend to him, in fact, since he has defaulted on their loans too. According to Rachel Maddow, though, he did pay back at least one major debt to Deutsche Bank, after he made a $60 million dollar profit selling that mansion in Florida to that Russian oligarch (Ryobolovlev) that Trump's friend Wilbur Ross knew from his work in Cyprus.
But I digress. Just to totally clear, nominally the 1) "Mirror trades" scam for which Deutsche Bank was already fined 2) the newly discovered Deutsche Bank scam involving the Moldovan court system and 3) The money laundering scam involving Cypriot banks which led to that wiretap of the Russian organized crime boss at Trump Tower...
... are three separate Russian money laundering scandals. The fact that all three involve foreign banks linked to Trump or people in Trump's orbit is probably just a coincidence... according to Republicans who don't want to appoint a special prosecutor.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:42 AM on March 22, 2017 [52 favorites]
Thanks melissasaurus; the post-Trumpcare budget becoming the new 0-marker for doing "revenue neutral" tax reform through reconciliation is exactly the context I was missing.
posted by Rumpled at 4:05 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Rumpled at 4:05 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's like from a dream world where every day I didn't wake up into a new moral/physical/legal/existential crisis brought on by President Shitgibbon.
If only we had clapped for Jeb!
posted by thelonius at 4:25 AM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
If only we had clapped for Jeb!
posted by thelonius at 4:25 AM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
(BTW, that last link about Wilbur Ross puts a different, but to my mind not wholly convincing, spin on Ross's involvment with the Bank of Cyprus. Which is presumably the version of his story the Republican Senators who voted to confirm him were willing to accept -- though the White House kept some of Ross's answers to senators' questions secret. To summarize that version of the story briefly, it gives credit to Ross for the fact that the Bank of Cyprus "Is on the way to recovery and is no longer considered a potential beachhead for a Russian presence in Europe’s financial system" and suggests that “Ross was there to benefit the interests of the U.S. and Britain,” by breaking the hold of Russian shareholders on the bank.
But the story itself seems considerably more complicated than that. If you read the details, some Russians in it make money (or at least limit their losses), some Russians lose money, some Russians leave the bank, and other Russians become involved. It seems unlikely that any particular nefarious scheme would just benefit "Russians" in general. Just because Ross took actions which can be seen as against the interests of some Russian investors doesn't mean they weren't in the interests of other Russian investors. I also have trouble buying the assertion there that Mr. Ryobolovlev has "hostile" relations with the Kremlin. I don't think you get that rich in Russia if you have genuinely hostile relations with the Kremlin. But in any case, if you want to hear Ross's side of the story, the NYT article has it, along with a lot of details.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:25 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
But the story itself seems considerably more complicated than that. If you read the details, some Russians in it make money (or at least limit their losses), some Russians lose money, some Russians leave the bank, and other Russians become involved. It seems unlikely that any particular nefarious scheme would just benefit "Russians" in general. Just because Ross took actions which can be seen as against the interests of some Russian investors doesn't mean they weren't in the interests of other Russian investors. I also have trouble buying the assertion there that Mr. Ryobolovlev has "hostile" relations with the Kremlin. I don't think you get that rich in Russia if you have genuinely hostile relations with the Kremlin. But in any case, if you want to hear Ross's side of the story, the NYT article has it, along with a lot of details.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:25 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Is this true? Is this credible? Who knows? Trust has been eroded here.
Well the reaction of authorities to "they're putting explosives in laptop batteries" is "put them in the cargo hold".
But then again the UK is doing it too. So who fucking knows.
posted by Talez at 4:37 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well the reaction of authorities to "they're putting explosives in laptop batteries" is "put them in the cargo hold".
But then again the UK is doing it too. So who fucking knows.
posted by Talez at 4:37 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Two observations I've made, not related to anything recent or specific, just speaking generally:
- There appears to be a new Godwin's law in America: the longer any conversation (not just online conversations) continues, the probability that it will turn to the topic of current politics approaches one. I can't go anywhere anymore without overhearing people talking about Trump or Congress one way or another. This wasn't the case three months ago. This very wasn't the case six months ago. This very very wasn't the case a year ago.
- With the number of straw men arguments in this country it's amazing it hasn't caught fire already.
NYT: Tweeting Toward Oblivion Either someone in his orbit convinced him, at least briefly, of the damage he was doing and the miserable situation he’s in, or Trump himself summoned some wisdom and restraint. He must be capable of that. Can he continue it?
It could be argued that every presidency is a tug of war between private demons and the public interest, between the commander in chief’s indulgence of his own psychological needs and his attentiveness to the hard work of America. With Trump it’s a furiously pitched battle, and the demons are way out ahead.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:52 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
It could be argued that every presidency is a tug of war between private demons and the public interest, between the commander in chief’s indulgence of his own psychological needs and his attentiveness to the hard work of America. With Trump it’s a furiously pitched battle, and the demons are way out ahead.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:52 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
AP Exclusive: Manafort had plan to benefit Putin government: President Donald Trump's former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, secretly worked for a Russian billionaire to advance the interests of Russian President Vladimir Putin a decade ago and proposed an ambitious political strategy to undermine anti-Russian opposition across former Soviet republics, The Associated Press has learned. The work appears to contradict assertions by the Trump administration and Manafort himself that he never worked for Russian interests.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:54 AM on March 22, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:54 AM on March 22, 2017 [40 favorites]
There appears to be a new Godwin's law in America: the longer any conversation (not just online conversations) continues, the probability that it will turn to the topic of current politics approaches one. I can't go anywhere anymore without overhearing people talking about Trump or Congress one way or another. This wasn't the case three months ago. This very wasn't the case six months ago. This very very wasn't the case a year ago.
This is one reason I think Trump will have a difficult time getting reelected even if he manages to not get impeached or not piss off every constituency (and we still have a functioning democracy). The amount of drama and stress is going to wear people out, even supporters, but especially independents. Like dog years, these next four years are going to be like 16 years in Trump Years™. And we painfully know how hard it is for one party to hold the presidency for longer than two terms. Only once since FDR has that happened with Bush following Reagan.
As you said, you just can't escape it, and after 8 years of no-drama Obama, the constant scandal and insanity is gonna drive people away and make them tune out. We've already seen the Times article about his frustration that his Twitter feed isn't having the effect it did. You see the WSJ calling out his constant lies. His act isn't going to play well longterm.
posted by chris24 at 4:57 AM on March 22, 2017 [29 favorites]
This is one reason I think Trump will have a difficult time getting reelected even if he manages to not get impeached or not piss off every constituency (and we still have a functioning democracy). The amount of drama and stress is going to wear people out, even supporters, but especially independents. Like dog years, these next four years are going to be like 16 years in Trump Years™. And we painfully know how hard it is for one party to hold the presidency for longer than two terms. Only once since FDR has that happened with Bush following Reagan.
As you said, you just can't escape it, and after 8 years of no-drama Obama, the constant scandal and insanity is gonna drive people away and make them tune out. We've already seen the Times article about his frustration that his Twitter feed isn't having the effect it did. You see the WSJ calling out his constant lies. His act isn't going to play well longterm.
posted by chris24 at 4:57 AM on March 22, 2017 [29 favorites]
As you said, you just can't escape it, and after 8 years of no-drama Obama, the constant scandal and insanity is gonna drive people away and make them tune out. We've already seen the Times article about his frustration that his Twitter feed isn't having the effect it did. You see the WSJ calling out his lies. His act isn't going to play well longterm.
And that analysis draws an outline of who the next Democratic candidate needs to be: someone you can trust to be boring and stable and at work. (I'm not thinking of anyone in particular, rather the contrary)
posted by mumimor at 5:01 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
And that analysis draws an outline of who the next Democratic candidate needs to be: someone you can trust to be boring and stable and at work. (I'm not thinking of anyone in particular, rather the contrary)
posted by mumimor at 5:01 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
More NYT: Calling On a Few Good Men: The last time our country faced such a cancer on the presidency, the Republican Party’s leadership stood up and put country before party to get to the truth. But today’s G.O.P. is a pale imitation of that party. With a few exceptions, it has declared moral bankruptcy and abdicated its responsibility to draw any red lines for President Trump.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:02 AM on March 22, 2017 [47 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:02 AM on March 22, 2017 [47 favorites]
And that analysis draws an outline of who the next Democratic candidate needs to be: someone you can trust to be boring and stable and at work.
I tend to agree, though with the caveat that 'boring' means not calling undo and unnecessary attention to themselves rather than dull and uninteresting. I do think we'll need someone who has a spark and energy, but someone who once elected people trust to know the job and do the job.
posted by chris24 at 5:05 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
I tend to agree, though with the caveat that 'boring' means not calling undo and unnecessary attention to themselves rather than dull and uninteresting. I do think we'll need someone who has a spark and energy, but someone who once elected people trust to know the job and do the job.
posted by chris24 at 5:05 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
I liked this a lot: An Open Letter to White People from Two Professors of Color: Step Up!
Because we recognize the urgency of this moment, we ask white people to own up to all that the Trump presidency means (not just the anti-woman part). You belong to the demographic that overwhelmingly supported him. Not just “working-class” white people; all kinds of white people, including many women.
Despite rampant voter suppression, people of color tried to save American democracy. That didn’t work, partly because not enough of you had difficult conversations over the years with your family, friends, and neighbors. You know, the uncle who’s always saying something racist at Thanksgiving or the co-worker you never challenge when she makes racist or homophobic jokes.
We’ve therefore brought a bit of our classroom to you here. Groups that are being targeted even more intensely than before need you to actually listen when we speak and both literally and metaphorically stand beside us.
posted by TwoStride at 5:10 AM on March 22, 2017 [23 favorites]
Because we recognize the urgency of this moment, we ask white people to own up to all that the Trump presidency means (not just the anti-woman part). You belong to the demographic that overwhelmingly supported him. Not just “working-class” white people; all kinds of white people, including many women.
Despite rampant voter suppression, people of color tried to save American democracy. That didn’t work, partly because not enough of you had difficult conversations over the years with your family, friends, and neighbors. You know, the uncle who’s always saying something racist at Thanksgiving or the co-worker you never challenge when she makes racist or homophobic jokes.
We’ve therefore brought a bit of our classroom to you here. Groups that are being targeted even more intensely than before need you to actually listen when we speak and both literally and metaphorically stand beside us.
posted by TwoStride at 5:10 AM on March 22, 2017 [23 favorites]
Also, random thought on the ludicrous security clearance Ivanka is getting: do you think it's because they've realized that #45 needs fulltime nannying?
posted by TwoStride at 5:10 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 5:10 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
You do have to wonder how many days he's asked to do another solo press conference, and been shut down. It's gotta be more than a handful.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:23 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:23 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
If only we can figure out the right name to use, they will tear themselves in two like Rumpelstilskin, and we will be free.
Well, no, that doesn't work on Republicans generally, but I thought it was established canon that Reince Priebus would go back to his home dimension if we could trick him into saying his name backwards.
posted by jackbishop at 5:29 AM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Well, no, that doesn't work on Republicans generally, but I thought it was established canon that Reince Priebus would go back to his home dimension if we could trick him into saying his name backwards.
posted by jackbishop at 5:29 AM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Also, random thought on the ludicrous security clearance Ivanka is getting: do you think it's because they've realized that #45 needs fulltime nannying?
I think it's:
1) Nepotism/Kleptocracy
2) Having trouble finding good staff willing to work for him/doesn't trust anyone else
3) Babysitting/nannying
posted by chris24 at 5:34 AM on March 22, 2017 [18 favorites]
I think it's:
1) Nepotism/Kleptocracy
2) Having trouble finding good staff willing to work for him/doesn't trust anyone else
3) Babysitting/nannying
posted by chris24 at 5:34 AM on March 22, 2017 [18 favorites]
I don't believe I had ever heard of the Anne Frank Center before last year. I'm not saying it's not worth quoting, but it doesn't appear to be a broad-based and well-established communal organisation.
Yeah, but as a 50 year old, Progressive, Jewish-American, they've been pretty much 100% in alignment with my core values.
posted by mikelieman at 5:39 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yeah, but as a 50 year old, Progressive, Jewish-American, they've been pretty much 100% in alignment with my core values.
posted by mikelieman at 5:39 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
mumimor And that analysis draws an outline of who the next Democratic candidate needs to be: someone you can trust to be boring and stable and at work. (I'm not thinking of anyone in particular, rather the contrary)
Please no. Boring loses elections in America more than anything else. And the Democrats seem to have an endless supply of the most boring politicians who have ever existed and an infinite will to think that somehow this time it will be different and what Americans will vote for is Candidate Drab.
It never works. It has never worked. It will never work.
We absolutely do not need to run Mondale 2.0 or Mecha Dukakis or Son Of Gore in 2020.
We must run someone who seems trustworthy and sane, sure, but someone with a bit of Elvis, a touch of showmanship, a dash of sparkle too. We need someone like Clinton or Obama or Kennedy, someone with shine.
When the Republicans run drab candidates they lose too, Bush Sr. lost to the charisma of Bill Clinton, and then dour and snippy Dole lost to him too.
Having succeeded with charisma in Bill Clinton, the Democrats then decided that they needed to lose a few elections so they ran Gore, who is so wooden you could use him for kindling, and then they followed up with Kerry who wouldn't know stage presence if you smacked him the face with it.
Charisma works. Boring does not. I don't give a shit how qualified or trustworthy a Democratic candidate is if they're dead on stage and TV they'll lose every time.
posted by sotonohito at 5:42 AM on March 22, 2017 [46 favorites]
Please no. Boring loses elections in America more than anything else. And the Democrats seem to have an endless supply of the most boring politicians who have ever existed and an infinite will to think that somehow this time it will be different and what Americans will vote for is Candidate Drab.
It never works. It has never worked. It will never work.
We absolutely do not need to run Mondale 2.0 or Mecha Dukakis or Son Of Gore in 2020.
We must run someone who seems trustworthy and sane, sure, but someone with a bit of Elvis, a touch of showmanship, a dash of sparkle too. We need someone like Clinton or Obama or Kennedy, someone with shine.
When the Republicans run drab candidates they lose too, Bush Sr. lost to the charisma of Bill Clinton, and then dour and snippy Dole lost to him too.
Having succeeded with charisma in Bill Clinton, the Democrats then decided that they needed to lose a few elections so they ran Gore, who is so wooden you could use him for kindling, and then they followed up with Kerry who wouldn't know stage presence if you smacked him the face with it.
Charisma works. Boring does not. I don't give a shit how qualified or trustworthy a Democratic candidate is if they're dead on stage and TV they'll lose every time.
posted by sotonohito at 5:42 AM on March 22, 2017 [46 favorites]
I don't believe I had ever heard of the Anne Frank Center before last year.
I mean, I never expected Teen Vogue or Merriam-Webster to be voices of the resistance either, but here we are.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 5:51 AM on March 22, 2017 [82 favorites]
I mean, I never expected Teen Vogue or Merriam-Webster to be voices of the resistance either, but here we are.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 5:51 AM on March 22, 2017 [82 favorites]
Please no. Boring loses elections in America more than anything else. And the Democrats seem to have an endless supply of the most boring politicians who have ever existed and an infinite will to think that somehow this time it will be different and what Americans will vote for is Candidate Drab.
I totally agree with this--Americans (and humans generally) are easily distracted by and attracted to shiny objects. The challenge for the Democrats is to find a charismatic candidate that (1) is committed to progressive values and can talk passionately about them, (2) will surround themselves with smart people also committed to those values, and (3) is cool/attractive/charismatic enough to capture the imagination of the American voting class. We don't need a policy wonk, although if the candidate happens to be adept in policy too, great. I don't fully understand why the DNC tends to trend away from charismatic candidates except when they also happen to be policy wonks (e.g., Barack Obama); maybe it's an adverse reaction to the Republican's attraction to policy-lite camera-friendly candidates (e.g., Reagan). Anyway, my vote for the next Democratic candidate is Tom Hanks.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 5:52 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
I totally agree with this--Americans (and humans generally) are easily distracted by and attracted to shiny objects. The challenge for the Democrats is to find a charismatic candidate that (1) is committed to progressive values and can talk passionately about them, (2) will surround themselves with smart people also committed to those values, and (3) is cool/attractive/charismatic enough to capture the imagination of the American voting class. We don't need a policy wonk, although if the candidate happens to be adept in policy too, great. I don't fully understand why the DNC tends to trend away from charismatic candidates except when they also happen to be policy wonks (e.g., Barack Obama); maybe it's an adverse reaction to the Republican's attraction to policy-lite camera-friendly candidates (e.g., Reagan). Anyway, my vote for the next Democratic candidate is Tom Hanks.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 5:52 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
I don't give a shit how qualified or trustworthy a Democratic candidate is if they're dead on stage and TV they'll lose every time.
Well, I hope we can get it all, someone with spark and capability. And this is not directed at you, but I kinda hate using 'charisma' when referring to desired political qualities these days because it seems that it's almost become gendered in that it usually describes typically male behaviors and qualities.
posted by chris24 at 5:56 AM on March 22, 2017 [23 favorites]
Well, I hope we can get it all, someone with spark and capability. And this is not directed at you, but I kinda hate using 'charisma' when referring to desired political qualities these days because it seems that it's almost become gendered in that it usually describes typically male behaviors and qualities.
posted by chris24 at 5:56 AM on March 22, 2017 [23 favorites]
Boring loses elections in America more than anything else.
Yep. Our candidates need to be JAZZ-HANDS! in the streets and policy wonks in the sheets, basically. (Which was Obama's secret sauce, in a nutshell.) The American populace is not like these threads. Heck, I wasn't like these threads until these threads, and I'm a giant nerd. They want someone they can trust to get the job done, sure, but before they can even consider whether or not they can trust the person, the candidate needs to get their attention for long enough for someone to even wonder, "Would I trust this person to do the job? Should I take them seriously? Should I bother to google them and if I do, will it at least be interesting?"
Like, be real, how many of you got around to wondering whether Jeb! would actually make a good President?
I don't agree with everything the Pod Save America bros say about the whys and wherefores of our loss last year, but they do frequently say that candidates need to talk like normal people. I'd amend that to say "Normal fun and interesting people." After 70 years of mass communications and advertising, we know when someone is saying something that's been focus-grouped to within an inch of its life and Hillary, god love her, did that all the time. That's not fun for us anymore, that's boring. That's an advertisement, and we see hundreds of those all day every day. Yawn.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:06 AM on March 22, 2017 [34 favorites]
Yep. Our candidates need to be JAZZ-HANDS! in the streets and policy wonks in the sheets, basically. (Which was Obama's secret sauce, in a nutshell.) The American populace is not like these threads. Heck, I wasn't like these threads until these threads, and I'm a giant nerd. They want someone they can trust to get the job done, sure, but before they can even consider whether or not they can trust the person, the candidate needs to get their attention for long enough for someone to even wonder, "Would I trust this person to do the job? Should I take them seriously? Should I bother to google them and if I do, will it at least be interesting?"
Like, be real, how many of you got around to wondering whether Jeb! would actually make a good President?
I don't agree with everything the Pod Save America bros say about the whys and wherefores of our loss last year, but they do frequently say that candidates need to talk like normal people. I'd amend that to say "Normal fun and interesting people." After 70 years of mass communications and advertising, we know when someone is saying something that's been focus-grouped to within an inch of its life and Hillary, god love her, did that all the time. That's not fun for us anymore, that's boring. That's an advertisement, and we see hundreds of those all day every day. Yawn.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:06 AM on March 22, 2017 [34 favorites]
Mod note: To avoid a big side discussion here, please take advantage of the "Now What?" thread for further conversation about who/what type person the Democrats should run. Thanks.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:09 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 6:09 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
I don't think that's all of it monju-bosatsu. I don't know what it is, but there has to be something more then just those three things.
Candidates don't exist in silos. Their campaigns and influenced by outside forces both on the same fence and on the opposing side.
It's not the base or core we need to enthrall. It's the moderates, independents, and undecideds.
I think the first step is a really deep understanding of why these people don't lean core party voters. Is it unique to each individual, or is the party doing something to drive people closer to the dividing line?
posted by INFJ at 6:11 AM on March 22, 2017
Candidates don't exist in silos. Their campaigns and influenced by outside forces both on the same fence and on the opposing side.
It's not the base or core we need to enthrall. It's the moderates, independents, and undecideds.
I think the first step is a really deep understanding of why these people don't lean core party voters. Is it unique to each individual, or is the party doing something to drive people closer to the dividing line?
posted by INFJ at 6:11 AM on March 22, 2017
I don't think that's all of it monju-bosatsu. I don't know what it is, but there has to be something more then just those three things.
Sure, election outcomes depend on more than those variables, but I think most of the variables are separate from the candidate. Without going down the what-if rabbit hole (per Taz's admonition), I think the Lichtman model has some predictive power, and only 2 of the 13 variables are related to the charismatic power of the candidates themselves. And even then, we are talking about outliers--"national heroes" to use Lichtman's phraseology. I think it's heartening to look at that model, though, because at least right now I don't think the current administration will score well.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 6:19 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sure, election outcomes depend on more than those variables, but I think most of the variables are separate from the candidate. Without going down the what-if rabbit hole (per Taz's admonition), I think the Lichtman model has some predictive power, and only 2 of the 13 variables are related to the charismatic power of the candidates themselves. And even then, we are talking about outliers--"national heroes" to use Lichtman's phraseology. I think it's heartening to look at that model, though, because at least right now I don't think the current administration will score well.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 6:19 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
You do have to wonder how many days he's asked to do another solo press conference, and been shut down. It's gotta be more than a handful.
Doesn't need to tweet when he can do campaign rallies--and he just had one--no awkward questions either.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:32 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Doesn't need to tweet when he can do campaign rallies--and he just had one--no awkward questions either.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:32 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
1. Again, any California Republican who votes for AHCA is voting to deny their constituents federal support for insurance premiums. 2. This is because state law mandates abortion coverage in health insurance, while the AHCA denies tax credits for any policy that does so. 3. CBO coverage #s don't reflect this, but the individual mkt in CA would collapse, as millions would have no help, couldn't afford a plan
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:35 AM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:35 AM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
I don't believe I had ever heard of the Anne Frank Center before last year.
We also didn't have Nazis in the White House before last year. One might assume that the AFC is amplifying their messaging accordingly.
posted by Strange Interlude at 6:39 AM on March 22, 2017 [41 favorites]
We also didn't have Nazis in the White House before last year. One might assume that the AFC is amplifying their messaging accordingly.
posted by Strange Interlude at 6:39 AM on March 22, 2017 [41 favorites]
Yeah, fuck this. I'm gonna call Republican house offices today pretending to be a constituent. Vote's tomorrow. I'd like them to sweat.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:41 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 6:41 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Put Keith Rothfus (PA-12, here's a handy link with relevant zip codes) towards the top of that list, Schadenfrau. He's on the fence and a noted "if I don't say or do anything controversial, maybe they won't notice I'm here" rep. He's been soliciting constituent feedback on this issue.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:50 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:50 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm gonna call Republican house offices today pretending to be a constituent.
Not that I approve of such a thing, but if you throw a ZIP code out there early, they tend to believe you. "Hi, I'm a constituent, I live in 37421, and I don't want you to vote for the AHCA!"
posted by Etrigan at 6:53 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Not that I approve of such a thing, but if you throw a ZIP code out there early, they tend to believe you. "Hi, I'm a constituent, I live in 37421, and I don't want you to vote for the AHCA!"
posted by Etrigan at 6:53 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Imma put the fear of a primary into them, and I am not ashamed to admit that I'm going to enjoy it. How you like the rat fucking now, assholes?
posted by schadenfrau at 6:58 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 6:58 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's like North Carolina state legislature levels of shittiness.
Hey, we resemble that remark: NC House assholes ready veto override vote on Gov. Roy Cooper's veto of a bill to make trial court judicial elections partisan races.
Just holding up our shitty practices to shit on NC.
posted by yoga at 6:59 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Hey, we resemble that remark: NC House assholes ready veto override vote on Gov. Roy Cooper's veto of a bill to make trial court judicial elections partisan races.
Just holding up our shitty practices to shit on NC.
posted by yoga at 6:59 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
I hadn't heard of the Ann Frank Center, either, but I think that there are a lot of Jews in the US who are concerned about the seeming rise in antisemitism, as well as all sorts of other bigotry and exclusion, and who don't feel comfortable being represented by the ADL. I think there's room in American Jewish life for an organization that fights antisemitism from a progressive, intersectional, not-obsessed-with-Israel perspective, and it looks like the Ann Frank Center is filling that role. So yay!
I am not crazy about the idea of posing as a constituent, because if word gets out that people are doing it, it gives the Republicans a way to discredit callers. We're not actually paid protesters. We're not actually people from New York pretending to be constituents. We're really just pissed off people in their districts who reject their agendas.
Rod Blum, who represents a purple district in Eastern Iowa, came out yesterday against the AHCA "in its current form." Three out of four of Iowa's Congressional reps are against. (Steve King is against because it won't kill quite enough of the right people.) I dunno if anyone here is in Dave Young's district, but if so, he's still saying he's on the fence, so call him. DC office number is 202-225-5476. Des Moines office number is 515-282-1909.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:01 AM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
I am not crazy about the idea of posing as a constituent, because if word gets out that people are doing it, it gives the Republicans a way to discredit callers. We're not actually paid protesters. We're not actually people from New York pretending to be constituents. We're really just pissed off people in their districts who reject their agendas.
Rod Blum, who represents a purple district in Eastern Iowa, came out yesterday against the AHCA "in its current form." Three out of four of Iowa's Congressional reps are against. (Steve King is against because it won't kill quite enough of the right people.) I dunno if anyone here is in Dave Young's district, but if so, he's still saying he's on the fence, so call him. DC office number is 202-225-5476. Des Moines office number is 515-282-1909.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:01 AM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
Boring loses elections in America more than anything else.
To me, a big take away from the last election is that Americans like to vote for stars. They don't give much of a good goddamn about policy, but they want to vote for someone who can fake at least a little star power—Bill Clinton, Obama, Trump, it doesn't matter. A star with some policy chops would be nice, but at this point Tom Hanks, George Clooney, Oprah are all starting to look pretty good.
AP Exclusive: Manafort had plan to benefit Putin government:
And the Filthy Dreams Back In The U.S.S.R, Comrades Playlist—"a dizzying mixture of Soviet references, Russian disco music and some sly references to 'Golden Years'"—is just the thing to listen to while contemplating this news with maybe a shot of vodka in the morning OJ!
posted by octobersurprise at 7:04 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
To me, a big take away from the last election is that Americans like to vote for stars. They don't give much of a good goddamn about policy, but they want to vote for someone who can fake at least a little star power—Bill Clinton, Obama, Trump, it doesn't matter. A star with some policy chops would be nice, but at this point Tom Hanks, George Clooney, Oprah are all starting to look pretty good.
AP Exclusive: Manafort had plan to benefit Putin government:
And the Filthy Dreams Back In The U.S.S.R, Comrades Playlist—"a dizzying mixture of Soviet references, Russian disco music and some sly references to 'Golden Years'"—is just the thing to listen to while contemplating this news with maybe a shot of vodka in the morning OJ!
posted by octobersurprise at 7:04 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
I am not crazy about the idea of posing as a constituent, because if word gets out that people are doing it, it gives the Republicans a way to discredit callers.
They're already doing that. I have had Facebook wars this week about whether I actually live in my Rep's district, and it's not even on that Rep's page. People think Soros has been paying liberals to sign up for theoretically apolitical neighborhood FB groups for years, like, just in case, I guess.
posted by Etrigan at 7:05 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
They're already doing that. I have had Facebook wars this week about whether I actually live in my Rep's district, and it's not even on that Rep's page. People think Soros has been paying liberals to sign up for theoretically apolitical neighborhood FB groups for years, like, just in case, I guess.
posted by Etrigan at 7:05 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Man, with all the money Soros dumps paying liberals to protest he might be better served just setting up a whole shadow government to run the fucking country.
posted by lydhre at 7:09 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 7:09 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
I suppose I'm lowering the value of progressive rat fucking, but I'm certainly open to the idea of a union.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:13 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by schadenfrau at 7:13 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think that the idea of not being a paid protester is kind of becoming a rallying cry for people in red and purple areas, though, in a way that is backfiring on the people making the accusation. And my sense is that representatives are backing down from it. Someone asked Joni Ernst about it at the town hall I was at on Friday, and she said that she didn't think any of us were paid protesters, "although there is some organization." (There's a Facebook group. That's the organization. I don't see what's wrong with organization, but this is a remarkably grassroots movement.) Her aid was overheard saying that we were all so emotional, and the problem is that the Republicans are guided by facts and their critics are guided by emotion. Which is a time-honored way of discrediting women, but LOLOLOL. As if the Republicans are even capable, from an epistemological standpoint, of recognizing a fact when they see it.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:15 AM on March 22, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:15 AM on March 22, 2017 [25 favorites]
Not that I approve of such a thing, but if you throw a ZIP code out there early, they tend to believe you. "Hi, I'm a constituent, I live in 37421, and I don't want you to vote for the AHCA!"
As someone who helps state legislators manage their constituent data, this suggestion makes my skin crawl. Please don't do this. I don't think we need to adopt any tactic that's going to make legislators trust constituent feedback any less. Just be honest.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 7:18 AM on March 22, 2017 [25 favorites]
As someone who helps state legislators manage their constituent data, this suggestion makes my skin crawl. Please don't do this. I don't think we need to adopt any tactic that's going to make legislators trust constituent feedback any less. Just be honest.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 7:18 AM on March 22, 2017 [25 favorites]
Anyone interested in a terrible political ad? Here's one for Georgia's 6th from Dan Moody, currently polling at 5% or less. This one has been on heavy rotation here in Atlanta. I am just so confused about all the decisions that went into making this thing.
posted by LizBoBiz at 7:18 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by LizBoBiz at 7:18 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Someone asked Joni Ernst about it at the town hall I was at on Friday, and she said that she didn't think any of us were paid protesters, "although there is some organization." (There's a Facebook group. That's the organization. I don't see what's wrong with organization, but this is a remarkably grassroots movement.)
Your organization is a nefarious scheme to hijack the democratic process; my organization is a group of like-minded people coming together to express our concerns.
posted by Etrigan at 7:19 AM on March 22, 2017 [42 favorites]
Your organization is a nefarious scheme to hijack the democratic process; my organization is a group of like-minded people coming together to express our concerns.
posted by Etrigan at 7:19 AM on March 22, 2017 [42 favorites]
the problem is that the Republicans are guided by facts and their critics are guided by emotion.
This is also a time-honored way of discrediting liberals (I know because it is what I was raised to believe), but it ceased to have any validity back in the 80s when the superduper emotional WHAT ABOUT THE BAYBEEZ and JESUS JESUS JESUS became the Republican rallying cries.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:19 AM on March 22, 2017 [26 favorites]
This is also a time-honored way of discrediting liberals (I know because it is what I was raised to believe), but it ceased to have any validity back in the 80s when the superduper emotional WHAT ABOUT THE BAYBEEZ and JESUS JESUS JESUS became the Republican rallying cries.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:19 AM on March 22, 2017 [26 favorites]
octobersurprise: To me, a big take away from the last election is that Americans like to vote for stars. They don't give much of a good goddamn about policy, but they want to vote for someone who can fake at least a little star power—Bill Clinton, Obama, Trump, it doesn't matter. A star with some policy chops would be nice, but at this point Tom Hanks, George Clooney, Oprah are all starting to look pretty good.I think it's horrible and disgusting, but I agree. Adam Cadre wrote about this back in 2008. I thought it was repulsive back then, and while I still do, I am starting to come around to the reasoning:
Everyone's interested in the leaders of the country. Intelligent people are interested in the actual functioning of the government, what policies various candidates plan to put into practice, how those policies will affect the lives of the citizenry... but there just aren't that many intelligent people. A lot of people are stupid. To them the government is just a sort of reality show. To them politicians are just celebrities who show up in different timeslots from the actors and sports stars. The beauty of constitutional monarchy is that it gives the stupid people their reality show, but farms it out to a powerless royal family so the real government can get on with its work. And you do have to give the stupid people their reality show. If you don't, they will make the real government into the reality show.posted by ragtag at 7:21 AM on March 22, 2017 [40 favorites]
Thanks to soren-lorensen and schadenfrau for the kick in the butt. Just called every one of NC's House rethug reps and urged a NO vote. Predictably, the idiots in red counties are voting for it. To those, I said, "That's very disappointing, as I'm not the only person in this disctrict that he represents that is very much opposed to the ACA repeal." The Yea vote staff were noticeably more smug & uppity about their "position in society" than the Blue and No voting staff.
Fucking ASSHOLES.
posted by yoga at 7:23 AM on March 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
Fucking ASSHOLES.
posted by yoga at 7:23 AM on March 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
I am just so confused about all the decisions that went into making this thing.
They put pearls on an elephant! Why? What does it mean? I mean it's clearly some kind of misogyny but I can't really do better than that .
posted by dis_integration at 7:23 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
They put pearls on an elephant! Why? What does it mean? I mean it's clearly some kind of misogyny but I can't really do better than that .
posted by dis_integration at 7:23 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Here's one for Georgia's 6th from Dan Moody, currently polling at 5% or less. This one has been on heavy rotation here in Atlanta. I am just so confused about all the decisions that went into making this thing.
Holy cow, so am I. Why does the elephant have a necklace? Why is Dan Moody shoveling shit from one part of an open field to a slightly different part of the open field? Is there really a large cadre of Trumpists who consider themselves conservatives but not Republicans in a district that Trump won by 1.5 but Price won by 23?
posted by Etrigan at 7:24 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Holy cow, so am I. Why does the elephant have a necklace? Why is Dan Moody shoveling shit from one part of an open field to a slightly different part of the open field? Is there really a large cadre of Trumpists who consider themselves conservatives but not Republicans in a district that Trump won by 1.5 but Price won by 23?
posted by Etrigan at 7:24 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Oh, and sorry, jpfed, but this is war and there are no rules of etiquette anymore.
posted by yoga at 7:24 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by yoga at 7:24 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
I mean, they gerrymandered the fuck out of districts to take our voice power away, so fuck that noise. I'm calling any damn rep I want.
posted by yoga at 7:27 AM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by yoga at 7:27 AM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
Holy shit, Dan Moody, fire your comms team immediately.
I kiiiind of get what he's going for there, but "being silent" isn't generally seen as a plus for a politician. "I promise, if elected, I will got to Washington and say absolutely nothing! Vote for me!" Yo, dude, I can be silent all on my own, I don't need someone to go be silent for me somewhere else.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:28 AM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
I kiiiind of get what he's going for there, but "being silent" isn't generally seen as a plus for a politician. "I promise, if elected, I will got to Washington and say absolutely nothing! Vote for me!" Yo, dude, I can be silent all on my own, I don't need someone to go be silent for me somewhere else.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:28 AM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
Meanwhile in Israel... "The corruption cases that could take down Benjamin Netanyahu, explained"
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:32 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:32 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Natasha Bertrand in Business Insider:
Hacked text messages allegedly sent by Paul Manafort's daughter discuss 'blood money' and killings, and a Ukrainian lawyer wants him to explain
In a series of texts reviewed by Business Insider that appear to have been sent by Andrea to her sister, Jessica, in March 2015, Andrea said their father had "no moral or legal compass."
"Don't fool yourself," Andrea wrote to her sister, according to the texts. "That money we have is blood money."
posted by spitbull at 7:36 AM on March 22, 2017 [32 favorites]
Hacked text messages allegedly sent by Paul Manafort's daughter discuss 'blood money' and killings, and a Ukrainian lawyer wants him to explain
In a series of texts reviewed by Business Insider that appear to have been sent by Andrea to her sister, Jessica, in March 2015, Andrea said their father had "no moral or legal compass."
"Don't fool yourself," Andrea wrote to her sister, according to the texts. "That money we have is blood money."
posted by spitbull at 7:36 AM on March 22, 2017 [32 favorites]
How long 'til Manafort goes missing or gets thrown out a fourth floor window?
posted by jferg at 7:37 AM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by jferg at 7:37 AM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
futz: And since joining the court, Judge Gorsuch has been a semiregular speaker at the mogul’s annual dove-hunting retreats for the wealthy and politically prominent at his 60-square-mile Eagles Nest Ranch.
Is there no better analogy for pompous, wealthy men putting themselves above everything else as a dove-hunting retreat with a fooking speaker? Who does that?
posted by filthy light thief at 7:38 AM on March 22, 2017 [28 favorites]
Is there no better analogy for pompous, wealthy men putting themselves above everything else as a dove-hunting retreat with a fooking speaker? Who does that?
posted by filthy light thief at 7:38 AM on March 22, 2017 [28 favorites]
Trump Team Asked About ‘Military Tactical Vehicles’ For Inaugural Parade: Emails: The Presidential Inaugural Committee “is seriously considering adding military vehicles to the Inaugural Parade,” a Pentagon official wrote in an internal email dated Dec. 13, 2016. “The conversation started as ‘Can you send us some pictures of military vehicles we could add to the parade,’” the official wrote.
The emails, which were released in response to a Freedom of Information Act request, corroborate HuffPost’s January report that Trump, who has spoken favorably of public displays of military prowess, looked into deploying heavy military equipment in his inaugural parade. Asked in December about plans to use military equipment during the occasion, a Trump aide refused to address the matter on the record but offered an incredulous off-the-record denial. It’s not clear whether the aide was aware of the conversations referenced in the Pentagon emails, and he did not respond to a request for an explanation.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:38 AM on March 22, 2017 [28 favorites]
The emails, which were released in response to a Freedom of Information Act request, corroborate HuffPost’s January report that Trump, who has spoken favorably of public displays of military prowess, looked into deploying heavy military equipment in his inaugural parade. Asked in December about plans to use military equipment during the occasion, a Trump aide refused to address the matter on the record but offered an incredulous off-the-record denial. It’s not clear whether the aide was aware of the conversations referenced in the Pentagon emails, and he did not respond to a request for an explanation.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:38 AM on March 22, 2017 [28 favorites]
jferg: How long 'til Manafort goes missing or gets thrown out a fourth floor window?
He's safe - he isn't adjacent to power any more, so all this can be brushed off as "So what, that guy's not with us any more. See, we did the right thing, we're honest folk now!"
posted by filthy light thief at 7:39 AM on March 22, 2017
He's safe - he isn't adjacent to power any more, so all this can be brushed off as "So what, that guy's not with us any more. See, we did the right thing, we're honest folk now!"
posted by filthy light thief at 7:39 AM on March 22, 2017
dove-hunting retreat with a fooking speaker? Who does that?
People who write off hunting trips on their taxes.
posted by spitbull at 7:40 AM on March 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
People who write off hunting trips on their taxes.
posted by spitbull at 7:40 AM on March 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
Manafort is safe as long as he doesn't think of testifying, which means he's safe as long as there's no investigation compelling him to testify. That guy has plenty of beans to spill.
posted by lydhre at 7:41 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by lydhre at 7:41 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
“The conversation started as ‘Can you send us some pictures of military vehicles we could add to the parade,’” the official wrote.
It sounded better in the original Russian.
posted by Etrigan at 7:42 AM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
It sounded better in the original Russian.
posted by Etrigan at 7:42 AM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
roomthreeseventeen: Trump, who has spoken favorably of public displays of military prowess, looked into deploying heavy military equipment in his inaugural parade
What a fooking toolbox. First, he has tractors in his inauguration parade, a first for a US president, and now he wants to lookpowerful like a military-supported despot, flexing his might in times of peace. Fingers crossed we get some good photo ops of him posing in a tank, so we can add a caption quoting “It’s like Vietnam, sort of. It is my personal Vietnam. I feel like a great and very brave solider,” of sleeping with women whose vaginas were “potential landmines” and saying “there’s some real danger there.”
posted by filthy light thief at 7:46 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
What a fooking toolbox. First, he has tractors in his inauguration parade, a first for a US president, and now he wants to look
posted by filthy light thief at 7:46 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
He's safe - he isn't adjacent to power any more, so all this can be brushed off as "So what, that guy's not with us any more. See, we did the right thing, we're honest folk now!"
Dude knows where the bodies are buried (maybe even literally). So, not safe, not at all safe.
posted by dis_integration at 7:49 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Dude knows where the bodies are buried (maybe even literally). So, not safe, not at all safe.
posted by dis_integration at 7:49 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
New Healthcare poll numbers:
Support: 31% (-1)
Oppose: 45% (+2)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:51 AM on March 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
Support: 31% (-1)
Oppose: 45% (+2)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:51 AM on March 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
The good thing about a man with no moral compass is that he can be bought out by the highest bidder, especially when that bidder is offering you a break on a five-to-ten-year federal sentence.
If I were Manafort I'd avoid the upper floors of Trump Tower for now.
posted by spitbull at 8:01 AM on March 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
If I were Manafort I'd avoid the upper floors of Trump Tower for now.
posted by spitbull at 8:01 AM on March 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
I've gotten through to Pat Toomey's office and talked to a person twice this week. This means that they either staffed up or the call volume has really dropped off. Toomey has been silent on the Republican Healthcare bill and his rep on the phone said that he has not chosen a position. If you live in PA please call his office. Toomey is almost certainly waiting to see what direction the wind will blow for this legislation and there is a possibility that we will have some influence.
posted by Alison at 8:10 AM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Alison at 8:10 AM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
He's safe - he isn't adjacent to power any more, so all this can be brushed off as "So what, that guy's not with us any more. See, we did the right thing, we're honest folk now!"
Never really thought we'd get to "US Secret Service v. Russian Assassins" outside of the shittiest of Tom Clancy (branded) poli-thrillers, but hey, here we are....
posted by mikelieman at 8:11 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Never really thought we'd get to "US Secret Service v. Russian Assassins" outside of the shittiest of Tom Clancy (branded) poli-thrillers, but hey, here we are....
posted by mikelieman at 8:11 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
"The Defenestration of Manafort" has a sort of romantic Old Europe sound to it.
posted by spitbull at 8:14 AM on March 22, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 8:14 AM on March 22, 2017 [43 favorites]
I've faxed Toomey (still smells like piss in the wind, I do not believe for a second that he is undecided) and emailed and faxed Dent.
posted by Dashy at 8:15 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Dashy at 8:15 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
"The Defenestration of Manafort" has a sort of romantic Old Europe sound to it.
Sounds more like the title of an 80s-era neofolk track to me
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:15 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sounds more like the title of an 80s-era neofolk track to me
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:15 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Oh, and sorry, jpfed, but this is war and there are no rules of etiquette anymore.
To put this mildly, I believe this is taking the wrong approach. It is hard to express how futile- even counterproductive- your chosen strategy seems to be from my perspective as someone who works with (state) legislative staff.
There are two modes of success when it comes to getting your legislators to do what you want. First, you can elect the right person. That's largely not something that can be done until 2018. Second mode is getting legislators to believe that their actual constituents strongly believe [thing]. If you communicate with the wrong legislators, you are eroding the trust that legislators have that what they hear from "their constituents" actually comes from their constituents. You are helping them dismiss feedback from the people. You are avoiding one of the two modes of success available to you. Don't do that.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:15 AM on March 22, 2017 [31 favorites]
To put this mildly, I believe this is taking the wrong approach. It is hard to express how futile- even counterproductive- your chosen strategy seems to be from my perspective as someone who works with (state) legislative staff.
There are two modes of success when it comes to getting your legislators to do what you want. First, you can elect the right person. That's largely not something that can be done until 2018. Second mode is getting legislators to believe that their actual constituents strongly believe [thing]. If you communicate with the wrong legislators, you are eroding the trust that legislators have that what they hear from "their constituents" actually comes from their constituents. You are helping them dismiss feedback from the people. You are avoiding one of the two modes of success available to you. Don't do that.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:15 AM on March 22, 2017 [31 favorites]
"The Defenestration of Manafort" has a sort of romantic Old Europe sound to it.
that was my favorite neural milk hotel song
posted by entropicamericana at 8:16 AM on March 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
that was my favorite neural milk hotel song
posted by entropicamericana at 8:16 AM on March 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
Eagles Nest Ranch
I missed this detail last night. Wasn't Hitler's resort in the Bavarian Alps called "the Eagle's Nest"?
posted by tobascodagama at 8:16 AM on March 22, 2017 [22 favorites]
I missed this detail last night. Wasn't Hitler's resort in the Bavarian Alps called "the Eagle's Nest"?
posted by tobascodagama at 8:16 AM on March 22, 2017 [22 favorites]
Oh come on, people. If Ludlum weren't dead, he'd already be writing The Manafort Defenestration.
posted by Etrigan at 8:17 AM on March 22, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 8:17 AM on March 22, 2017 [28 favorites]
I missed this detail last night. Wasn't Hitler's resort in the Bavarian Alps called "the Eagle's Nest"?
In English, yes. In German it's Kehlsteinhaus, because it's on top of the Kehlstein. The Germans are charmingly literal at times.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:17 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
In English, yes. In German it's Kehlsteinhaus, because it's on top of the Kehlstein. The Germans are charmingly literal at times.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:17 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Paul Waldman: Republicans' cruel intentions
When he began running for president in 1999, George W. Bush presented himself as "a different kind of Republican," to quote the phrase that seemed to come up in every profile written about him at the time. He was deeply conservative, yes, but he was also happy to interact with non-white people. He advocated something called "compassionate conservatism," which, though it meant little in practice, did communicate a gentle and caring heart. He even criticized Republicans in Congress when they sought to delay the Earned Income Tax Credit that goes to working people with low incomes, saying, "I don't think they ought to balance their budget on the backs of the poor." Everyone swooned.posted by zombieflanders at 8:17 AM on March 22, 2017 [43 favorites]
How long ago that seems.
These days, there are no "different kind of Republicans." There are disagreements, to be sure. But when it comes to compassion, the only question the GOP argues about is precisely how little of it they want to display. With complete control of the federal government, Republicans are being as cruel as they want to be. And oh boy, do they want to be cruel.
Which way will the Blackwater forces break for?
SPOILERS: we already know which way they will break for, that is why they are there.
posted by Artw at 8:19 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
SPOILERS: we already know which way they will break for, that is why they are there.
posted by Artw at 8:19 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
you are eroding the trust that legislators have that what they hear from "their constituents" actually comes from their constituents. You are helping them dismiss feedback from the people.
They are already doing that, though. That has been in their toolbox for at least the last two months. We are not providing them assistance in this.
posted by Etrigan at 8:20 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
They are already doing that, though. That has been in their toolbox for at least the last two months. We are not providing them assistance in this.
posted by Etrigan at 8:20 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
"The Defenestration of Manafort" has a sort of romantic Old Europe sound to it.
Sounds more like the title of an 80s-era neofolk track to me
Not seeing a contradiction there.
posted by spitbull at 8:20 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Sounds more like the title of an 80s-era neofolk track to me
Not seeing a contradiction there.
posted by spitbull at 8:20 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
"The Defenestration of Manafort" has a sort of romantic Old Europe sound to it.
Defenestration of Prague (1618)
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:21 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Defenestration of Prague (1618)
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:21 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
You are helping them dismiss feedback from the people
And you feel that they're not already doing this?
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 8:21 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
And you feel that they're not already doing this?
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 8:21 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well, my Governor is currently tweeting at undecided PA reps about AHCA.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:21 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:21 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
I've faxed Toomey (still smells like piss in the wind, I do not believe for a second that he is undecided) and emailed and faxed Dent.
I'm not sure Toomey believes anything that isn't backed up by a campaign donation, but I'm really hoping that Dent and my House Rep Meehan vote against the AHCA. I left a message for Meehan at his local district office, and his DC office's voicemail was full, so I'm hoping he's getting plenty of constituents calling.
posted by gladly at 8:22 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure Toomey believes anything that isn't backed up by a campaign donation, but I'm really hoping that Dent and my House Rep Meehan vote against the AHCA. I left a message for Meehan at his local district office, and his DC office's voicemail was full, so I'm hoping he's getting plenty of constituents calling.
posted by gladly at 8:22 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Germans are charmingly literal at times.
/Googles "thousand-year Reich."
posted by spitbull at 8:22 AM on March 22, 2017
/Googles "thousand-year Reich."
posted by spitbull at 8:22 AM on March 22, 2017
Defenestration of Prague (1618)
To be clear, my joke depended on that reference!
posted by spitbull at 8:23 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
To be clear, my joke depended on that reference!
posted by spitbull at 8:23 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm listening to the Goresuch hearings, but I've had to turn the radio off when Lindsay Graham and Orrin hatch were on. Infuriating lectures at the Dems for breaking tradition by not voting for who the repubs want. Flames. On the side of my face.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:24 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:24 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
The Defenestration of Manafort
It's the last in an ongoing series:
The Attacked in his Car of Oleg Erovinkin
The Blunt Force Trauma of Sergei Krivov
The Assassination of Andrei Karlov
The Heart Attack of Vitaly Churkin
The Natural Causes of Andrey Malanin
The Shooting of Yves Chandelon
The Shooting of Petr Polshikov
The Bagging of Sergei Mikhailov
The "Yeah, we did it" of Alex Oronov
I don't believe the "artist" is finished yet.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:28 AM on March 22, 2017 [43 favorites]
It's the last in an ongoing series:
The Attacked in his Car of Oleg Erovinkin
The Blunt Force Trauma of Sergei Krivov
The Assassination of Andrei Karlov
The Heart Attack of Vitaly Churkin
The Natural Causes of Andrey Malanin
The Shooting of Yves Chandelon
The Shooting of Petr Polshikov
The Bagging of Sergei Mikhailov
The "Yeah, we did it" of Alex Oronov
I don't believe the "artist" is finished yet.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:28 AM on March 22, 2017 [43 favorites]
Oooh an angle I am just seeing now. Manafort was the Trump adviser who forced Mike Pence on an unwilling Trump. Chris Christie, paging Chris Christie!
posted by spitbull at 8:29 AM on March 22, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 8:29 AM on March 22, 2017 [23 favorites]
I'd love to be proven wrong on either of those predictions, but I think I have finally calibrated my predictive ability with the cruel, vindictive, and stupid nature of America and the American voter so I will be greatly surprised if I'm wrong.
I'm with you Sotonohito. I'm not going to stop fighting but I've given up hope that this ends in anything other than a bloody, tragic, civil war.
That doesn't mean I'm going to give up. I'm going to keep doing the right thing. I know that institutions won't save us but I will push them to make the attempt so that it's the white nationalists that break them. I will fight to make them spend as much political will for everything they gain as possible.
In a sense, it's a fighting retreat to buy time until everyone else is ready to do what needs to be done. I also feel like I, personally, am obligated to do everything within my power to avoid violence. I still hold out hope that it won't come to that, that we'll be able to hold out until 2018 and impeach the bastard and then keep electorally pounding the GOP into dust. I'm not betting on or planning for that outcome even though I'm fighting to keep it from happening for as long as possible.
I'm not sure I'm expressing myself as well as I'd like but it's a weird situation. I think that we're obligated to fight the Trump regime through our institutions for as long as we can. It's a mix of it being the right thing to do, being tactically smart (shines a light on the regime, buys time, makes the other side expend resources), and having a chance of success on it's own. I don't think we'll be able to get the GOP to impeach Trump before the mid-terms but what if I'm wrong? We still need to try.
posted by VTX at 8:30 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm with you Sotonohito. I'm not going to stop fighting but I've given up hope that this ends in anything other than a bloody, tragic, civil war.
That doesn't mean I'm going to give up. I'm going to keep doing the right thing. I know that institutions won't save us but I will push them to make the attempt so that it's the white nationalists that break them. I will fight to make them spend as much political will for everything they gain as possible.
In a sense, it's a fighting retreat to buy time until everyone else is ready to do what needs to be done. I also feel like I, personally, am obligated to do everything within my power to avoid violence. I still hold out hope that it won't come to that, that we'll be able to hold out until 2018 and impeach the bastard and then keep electorally pounding the GOP into dust. I'm not betting on or planning for that outcome even though I'm fighting to keep it from happening for as long as possible.
I'm not sure I'm expressing myself as well as I'd like but it's a weird situation. I think that we're obligated to fight the Trump regime through our institutions for as long as we can. It's a mix of it being the right thing to do, being tactically smart (shines a light on the regime, buys time, makes the other side expend resources), and having a chance of success on it's own. I don't think we'll be able to get the GOP to impeach Trump before the mid-terms but what if I'm wrong? We still need to try.
posted by VTX at 8:30 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
@AriBerman: Leahy asks Gorsuch if he agrees with Scalia calling Voting Rights Act "a perpetuation of racial entitlement." Gorsuch dodges questionThis is why Berman's article and those like it are so important, and why it's not overblown to be worried about what they discussed. If he can't answer that simple question, then that indicates that the attacks on the basic tenets of participatory democracy, which have proven to be almost universally driven by racial or political animus from conservatives, will continue or even intensify with him on the Court.
Meanwhile, as the last several elections have proven, the people that seem most angry about essentially mythical voter fraud are apparently those most likely to be one of the few people that actually engage in it. Trump's Mirror is extending its way through every level of conservatism now.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:30 AM on March 22, 2017 [48 favorites]
It's the last in an ongoing series:
The Attacked in his Car of Oleg Erovinkin
The Blunt Force Trauma of Sergei Krivov
The Assassination of Andrei Karlov
The "Heart Attack" of Vitaly Churkin
The "Yeah, we did it" of Alex Oronov
I don't believe the "artist" is finished yet.
Oh Edward Gorey, where are you when we need you most
posted by Existential Dread at 8:30 AM on March 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
The Attacked in his Car of Oleg Erovinkin
The Blunt Force Trauma of Sergei Krivov
The Assassination of Andrei Karlov
The "Heart Attack" of Vitaly Churkin
The "Yeah, we did it" of Alex Oronov
I don't believe the "artist" is finished yet.
Oh Edward Gorey, where are you when we need you most
posted by Existential Dread at 8:30 AM on March 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
And who could forget "'The Irradiation' of Litvinenko?" A real classic of the genre.
posted by spitbull at 8:31 AM on March 22, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 8:31 AM on March 22, 2017 [31 favorites]
What will it take, I wonder, for Graham and Hatch and those like them to realize they have lived long enough to witness their own extinction? The body they believe they serve in has ceased to be, if it ever was. God, at this late date to be harping on Senate custom and comity -- when do you look in the mirror and realize you were a carrier for the infection killing everything you know, you were the Trojan Horse, the Bloody Mary? An old, tired dinosaur noticing finally that your nest has been dug up and obliterated, watching the yolk-smeared rats scramble around your feet?
posted by penduluum at 8:35 AM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by penduluum at 8:35 AM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
Also come on people NO DESPAIR, buck up! The force of our collective mass opposition has driven Trump to historically low approval ratings, he is being routinely treated as a liar in the mainstream media, even by outlets like the Wall St. Journal, the FBI Director just confirmed his campaign is under investigation, he's flailing about like a beached sea monster, he looks ready to lose his first major legislative battle in embarrassing fashion, and his budget priorities were laughed at even by many republicans. We're taking hits and losses too, but we -- civil society, kind people, activists, comedians, artists, institutions -- are damaging his power by the day and in ways that will have long term impacts on his ability to act -- without a shred of credibility domestically or abroad. 2 months down, 46 to go at the outside. Let's roll.
posted by spitbull at 8:37 AM on March 22, 2017 [122 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 8:37 AM on March 22, 2017 [122 favorites]
More good news from Moody's: Forget EPA Climate Regulations. Cheap Wind Is Already Putting 56 Gigawatts of Coal Plants at Risk
According to Moody’s, average wind PPA prices in the Great Plains are now around $20 per megawatt-hour compared to an operating cost (fuel, operations, maintenance and capital costs) of $30 per megawatt-hour for most coal plants.posted by Existential Dread at 8:44 AM on March 22, 2017 [57 favorites]
But you don't get Manly Man Manninist Points for building wind turbines.
What to do, what to do...
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:47 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
What to do, what to do...
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:47 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
he looks ready to lose his first major legislative battle in embarrassing fashion
This. This is the bellwether for me. If it passes the house, though, all bets are off.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:50 AM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
This. This is the bellwether for me. If it passes the house, though, all bets are off.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:50 AM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
First Lady Rosalynn Carter attended cabinet meetings, leaving Republicans foaming at the mouth. I'm not sure how often she did though.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 8:50 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
She attended Cabinet meetings and major briefings, frequently represented the Chief Executive at ceremonial occasions, and served as the President's personal emissary to Latin American countries.(from whitehouse.gov)
posted by TWinbrook8 at 8:50 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Here are some very disturbing tidbits from the AP article roomthreeseventeen posted regarding Paul Manafort's connections to Russia:
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:53 AM on March 22, 2017 [51 favorites]
Manafort proposed in a confidential strategy plan as early as June 2005 that he would influence politics, business dealings and news coverage inside the United States, Europe and the former Soviet republics to benefit the Putin government, even as U.S.-Russia relations under Republican President George W. Bush grew worse.This article is well worth reading. Paul Manafort must be made to answer questions under oath in front of Congress because it seems pretty clear that he has close ties to the Putin regime. The Executive branch is totally compromised by a hostile foreign power--each of Trump, Pence, Sessions, Tillerson, Manafort, Ross, DeVos, Chao, Mattis, Haley, and so forth must be fully investigated for the possibility that they have betrayed us all to Vladimir Putin. This executive branch is not legitimate.
Manafort pitched the plans to Russian aluminum magnate Oleg Deripaska, a close Putin ally with whom Manafort eventually signed a $10 million annual contract beginning in 2006, according to interviews with several people familiar with payments to Manafort and business records obtained by the AP. Manafort and Deripaska maintained a business relationship until at least 2009, according to one person familiar with the work.
"We are now of the belief that this model can greatly benefit the Putin Government if employed at the correct levels with the appropriate commitment to success," Manafort wrote in the 2005 memo to Deripaska. The effort, Manafort wrote, "will be offering a great service that can re-focus, both internally and externally, the policies of the Putin government."
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:53 AM on March 22, 2017 [51 favorites]
But you don't get Manly Man Manninist Points for building wind turbines.
Marketing problem. Those turbine blades are incredibly long, requiring big Manly oversize load trucks. And it takes Manly Man construction equipment to put them together and keep them operating!
MANLY
Plus the businesspeople and owners only care about MANLINESS in order to sell their politics to conservatives. When it comes to making money, they'll take the cheaper-to-operate option.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:55 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Marketing problem. Those turbine blades are incredibly long, requiring big Manly oversize load trucks. And it takes Manly Man construction equipment to put them together and keep them operating!
MANLY
Plus the businesspeople and owners only care about MANLINESS in order to sell their politics to conservatives. When it comes to making money, they'll take the cheaper-to-operate option.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:55 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
But you don't get Manly Man Manninist Points for building wind turbines.
But he absolutely haaaates wind farms.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 8:56 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
But he absolutely haaaates wind farms.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 8:56 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm baffled by all this hope that the Republican tax-care bill might not pass the house. Where are you getting this hope from? Since when have Republicans done the right or moral or sensible thing if it means not "winning?"
posted by Shutter at 8:58 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Shutter at 8:58 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
When he began running for president in 1999, George W. Bush presented himself as "a different kind of Republican," to quote the phrase that seemed to come up in every profile written about him at the time. He was deeply conservative, yes, but he was also happy to interact with non-white people. He advocated something called "compassionate conservatism," which, though it meant little in practice, did communicate a gentle and caring heart. He even criticized Republicans in Congress when they sought to delay the Earned Income Tax Credit that goes to working people with low incomes, saying, "I don't think they ought to balance their budget on the backs of the poor." Everyone swooned.
How long ago that seems.
In a time of such open naked evil you might find yourself feeling nostalgia for clothed evil.
posted by srboisvert at 9:00 AM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
How long ago that seems.
In a time of such open naked evil you might find yourself feeling nostalgia for clothed evil.
posted by srboisvert at 9:00 AM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
The hope mainly comes from a further perversity: the biggest problem the Republican Party has had internally is the Freedom Caucus, who are so batshit crazy that they can never be satisfied by normal Earth legislation and they ain't afraid to go down with that ship because they are crazy. These extremists are the reason why this bill has a chance of failing. It's like rooting for the t-rex to take down the velociraptors. It's a weird feeling. I don't like it, but there it is.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:01 AM on March 22, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:01 AM on March 22, 2017 [28 favorites]
VTX As far as pounding the Republicans into the dust, I'm doubtful unless the Democrats are a) able to take power, as in the Executive and Legislative branches by 2020, and b) are willing to make very hard choices and pass laws that will be painful for themselves.
Because what they need to do is ban gerrymandering at both a state and federal level, and there's a lot of Democratic House members who are there basically because of gerrymandering. Most places aren't nearly as gerrymandered to favor Democrats as they are to favor Republicans, but there's Democrats in Red States who have a seat that they will never lose basically because the Republicans crammed all the local Democrats into a single district. They're going to be unwilling to give up that guarantee of re-election.
They'll also need to do the highly unpleasant, and deeply partisan, work of impeaching and otherwise removing a lot of Trump's appointees. That's not going to look good, and that sort of mole hunt is just plain ugly.
Because the pendulum will shift again. It took 8 years of Juniors godawful misrule before the American people were finally sick enough of the Republicans to give power to the Democrats. A lot of America seems to view the Democrats as the party of last resort, the people you (very reluctantly) call up when the party they prefer has fucked things up so badly you need them to be fixed or you'll starve.
I'm fairly sure, assuming the world still exists and Trump permits elections, that we'll do well in 2020, most of the Senators up for re-election then are Republican, and even as gerrymandered as the House is I think we've got a shot at it too.
But I don't think we'd be on track to pounding the Republicans into the dust after that without massive changes starting with eradicating gerrymandering. Because once President [insert Democrat Here] has put out the fires Trump started, done the unpopular but necessary things to try to repair the economy, and things start looking better again the ungrateful electorate will suddenly start deciding that what they **really** need is a Republican in office.
I have no explanation for this bizarre behavior, but I've seen it far too often to imagine it will change. Once the ruin created by the last Republican administration is even slightly patched up the American people will decide they want nothing more than to elect another Republican to fuck things up again. It's like they can't stand having nice things so they have to keep empowering the people who bring ruin to the nation. Maybe it's a form of masochism? I don't know, but it's there, it's powerful, and I see no reason to think it'll change soon.
So we need to plan for that, and use our brief period of power in 2020 to at least set up some firewalls, beginning with eradicating gerrymandering so it's harder for the Republicans to steal the House. Imposing something like a federal version of the Interstate National Popular Vote Compact wouldn't be a bad idea either. There's no fixing the Senate, that'll get even worse as time passes, but we can at least patch up the House so the Republicans can't just cheat their way to victory there, and fixing the problem of gerrymandered state governments is also a very good idea.
Then we brace for President Palin, or whatever other incompetent and cruel scumbag the Republicans will nominate and the American people will elect in 2024 or (if we're really lucky) 2028.
But we won't be pounding the Republicans into the dust even assuming we win in 2020.
posted by sotonohito at 9:01 AM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
Because what they need to do is ban gerrymandering at both a state and federal level, and there's a lot of Democratic House members who are there basically because of gerrymandering. Most places aren't nearly as gerrymandered to favor Democrats as they are to favor Republicans, but there's Democrats in Red States who have a seat that they will never lose basically because the Republicans crammed all the local Democrats into a single district. They're going to be unwilling to give up that guarantee of re-election.
They'll also need to do the highly unpleasant, and deeply partisan, work of impeaching and otherwise removing a lot of Trump's appointees. That's not going to look good, and that sort of mole hunt is just plain ugly.
Because the pendulum will shift again. It took 8 years of Juniors godawful misrule before the American people were finally sick enough of the Republicans to give power to the Democrats. A lot of America seems to view the Democrats as the party of last resort, the people you (very reluctantly) call up when the party they prefer has fucked things up so badly you need them to be fixed or you'll starve.
I'm fairly sure, assuming the world still exists and Trump permits elections, that we'll do well in 2020, most of the Senators up for re-election then are Republican, and even as gerrymandered as the House is I think we've got a shot at it too.
But I don't think we'd be on track to pounding the Republicans into the dust after that without massive changes starting with eradicating gerrymandering. Because once President [insert Democrat Here] has put out the fires Trump started, done the unpopular but necessary things to try to repair the economy, and things start looking better again the ungrateful electorate will suddenly start deciding that what they **really** need is a Republican in office.
I have no explanation for this bizarre behavior, but I've seen it far too often to imagine it will change. Once the ruin created by the last Republican administration is even slightly patched up the American people will decide they want nothing more than to elect another Republican to fuck things up again. It's like they can't stand having nice things so they have to keep empowering the people who bring ruin to the nation. Maybe it's a form of masochism? I don't know, but it's there, it's powerful, and I see no reason to think it'll change soon.
So we need to plan for that, and use our brief period of power in 2020 to at least set up some firewalls, beginning with eradicating gerrymandering so it's harder for the Republicans to steal the House. Imposing something like a federal version of the Interstate National Popular Vote Compact wouldn't be a bad idea either. There's no fixing the Senate, that'll get even worse as time passes, but we can at least patch up the House so the Republicans can't just cheat their way to victory there, and fixing the problem of gerrymandered state governments is also a very good idea.
Then we brace for President Palin, or whatever other incompetent and cruel scumbag the Republicans will nominate and the American people will elect in 2024 or (if we're really lucky) 2028.
But we won't be pounding the Republicans into the dust even assuming we win in 2020.
posted by sotonohito at 9:01 AM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
Since when have Republicans done the right or moral or sensible thing if it means not "winning?"
It's actually the crazies pushing for even more wrong, immoral and nonsensical things that will tank this, if it goes down. That's a much surer bet than hoping Republicans will do good!
posted by jason_steakums at 9:04 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's actually the crazies pushing for even more wrong, immoral and nonsensical things that will tank this, if it goes down. That's a much surer bet than hoping Republicans will do good!
posted by jason_steakums at 9:04 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Of course not. Don’t believe me? Just try calling the White House and asking if you can have some gratis work space at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., one of the most coveted real estate properties on the planet.
I just did this to check and they're right! I called the switchboard (202-456-1414) and said I'd heard they were providing free office space to young women with no qualifications and I'd like some and they told me to have a good day (jokes on them, I have no plans to do this). If you think you'll have more luck than I did, please feel free to call as well!
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 9:04 AM on March 22, 2017 [75 favorites]
I just did this to check and they're right! I called the switchboard (202-456-1414) and said I'd heard they were providing free office space to young women with no qualifications and I'd like some and they told me to have a good day (jokes on them, I have no plans to do this). If you think you'll have more luck than I did, please feel free to call as well!
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 9:04 AM on March 22, 2017 [75 favorites]
he looks ready to lose his first major legislative battle in embarrassing fashion
And tax reform won't be any easier for them. You think Arkansas's senators are going to vote for a border adjustment tax that would be detrimental for Walmart? Plus Trump and Ryan's tax plans will blow up state budgets so there are going to be republican governors who are against it (they'd have to raise their state taxes or cut state services to make up the budget shortfall, and that won't play well in an election year).
They are actually really bad at governing, they don't have ideas that are popular across all business sectors (let alone popular among real people), and their coalition is barely holding itself together. I was at an event where one of Trump's econ advisors spoke and the industry professionals there practically laughed him out of the room (well, ok, everyone had proper decorum, but people basically used the q&a to be like "all your facts are wrong, so...."). They have no idea what they're doing and every policy idea they have is built on a strawman.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:05 AM on March 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
And tax reform won't be any easier for them. You think Arkansas's senators are going to vote for a border adjustment tax that would be detrimental for Walmart? Plus Trump and Ryan's tax plans will blow up state budgets so there are going to be republican governors who are against it (they'd have to raise their state taxes or cut state services to make up the budget shortfall, and that won't play well in an election year).
They are actually really bad at governing, they don't have ideas that are popular across all business sectors (let alone popular among real people), and their coalition is barely holding itself together. I was at an event where one of Trump's econ advisors spoke and the industry professionals there practically laughed him out of the room (well, ok, everyone had proper decorum, but people basically used the q&a to be like "all your facts are wrong, so...."). They have no idea what they're doing and every policy idea they have is built on a strawman.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:05 AM on March 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
Statement by President Donald J. Trump on Nowruz
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:14 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:14 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
> They have no idea what they're doing and every policy idea they have is built on a strawman.
Everything they do is a thinly veiled pretext for tax cuts for the richest. That's it. Whatever else needs to happen to enable those tax cuts - sure. But that's the one thing they appear to care about.
What I don't get is: what good will all the money do if the country is not worth living in? Isn't it worth paying taxes just so that people aren't starving in the street and bleeding to death on your limo?
(Then again, in India, the Ambani family famously built this billion-dollar residence tower, and apparently more were on the way. So.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:16 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Everything they do is a thinly veiled pretext for tax cuts for the richest. That's it. Whatever else needs to happen to enable those tax cuts - sure. But that's the one thing they appear to care about.
What I don't get is: what good will all the money do if the country is not worth living in? Isn't it worth paying taxes just so that people aren't starving in the street and bleeding to death on your limo?
(Then again, in India, the Ambani family famously built this billion-dollar residence tower, and apparently more were on the way. So.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:16 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
> Statement by President Donald J. Trump on Nowruz
Who are you and what have you done with our Orange Twitler?
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:17 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Who are you and what have you done with our Orange Twitler?
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:17 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
By taking this role, Ivanka is taking away a life-changing opportunity from another woman,
this is a ridiculous thing to say. Why would Trump hire a woman to be his close advisor if Ivanka wasn't there?
also I am aware of the feminist credo that we will have achieved success when women can rise to the top as incompetent mediocrities as easily as men do, I believe in it all the way, and I reject accordingly all double standards and efforts to judge women more harshly than men for sexist behavior and other evils. So I am not dismissing this by claiming that no regular incompetent woman (competent in the normal Republican way, that is) should want Ivanka's "job," because it is irrelevant to the point.
but to the point, you know who is taking away a life-changing opportunity for a woman (in the way that bolstering a fascist is life-changing)? Steve Bannon, Jared Kushner, that little twerp in the DOL everybody laughed at for getting hired into the government fresh out of high school, Stephen Miller. Talentless, skill-less, joke people like that. Also, Ivanka Trump. Her too. They are all taking women's spaces. if you are seriously going to look at the vacuous monstrosities occupying space that competent women could fill, you're going to look at Ivanka first? Before her dad? come on now.
I understand that there is an attempt here at pinpointing hypocrisy but she isn't taking a spot that would have been held by a competent woman; she's taking the spot that would have been held by one of her equally worthless brothers. looking at an unqualified nepotistic hire who supports fascism - fascism!!! and leading with her failure to be a feminist role model is undermining your own point in a really incredible way.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:18 AM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
this is a ridiculous thing to say. Why would Trump hire a woman to be his close advisor if Ivanka wasn't there?
also I am aware of the feminist credo that we will have achieved success when women can rise to the top as incompetent mediocrities as easily as men do, I believe in it all the way, and I reject accordingly all double standards and efforts to judge women more harshly than men for sexist behavior and other evils. So I am not dismissing this by claiming that no regular incompetent woman (competent in the normal Republican way, that is) should want Ivanka's "job," because it is irrelevant to the point.
but to the point, you know who is taking away a life-changing opportunity for a woman (in the way that bolstering a fascist is life-changing)? Steve Bannon, Jared Kushner, that little twerp in the DOL everybody laughed at for getting hired into the government fresh out of high school, Stephen Miller. Talentless, skill-less, joke people like that. Also, Ivanka Trump. Her too. They are all taking women's spaces. if you are seriously going to look at the vacuous monstrosities occupying space that competent women could fill, you're going to look at Ivanka first? Before her dad? come on now.
I understand that there is an attempt here at pinpointing hypocrisy but she isn't taking a spot that would have been held by a competent woman; she's taking the spot that would have been held by one of her equally worthless brothers. looking at an unqualified nepotistic hire who supports fascism - fascism!!! and leading with her failure to be a feminist role model is undermining your own point in a really incredible way.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:18 AM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Some white supremacists view Iranians as aryan, because, well, they're capital A Aryan.
posted by Yowser at 9:20 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 9:20 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
But we won't be pounding the Republicans into the dust even assuming we win in 2020.
I think you're 100% correct but dammit I'm going to try anyway. If I fail, it's not going to be from a lack of effort and I have to think that just about every scenario where we give it our all and fall short is still miles better than giving up.
Keep fighting, even if you don't think we can win, it's the right thing to do and I'd rather fail doing that than fail because I gave up.
posted by VTX at 9:25 AM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
I think you're 100% correct but dammit I'm going to try anyway. If I fail, it's not going to be from a lack of effort and I have to think that just about every scenario where we give it our all and fall short is still miles better than giving up.
Keep fighting, even if you don't think we can win, it's the right thing to do and I'd rather fail doing that than fail because I gave up.
posted by VTX at 9:25 AM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
What I don't get is: what good will all the money do if the country is not worth living in? Isn't it worth paying taxes just so that people aren't starving in the street and bleeding to death on your limo?
That's why you criminalize poverty so the poors do all that unpleasant starving and bleeding in prisons where they can't inconvenience you. Extra upside: more opportunity for kickbacks if you have a stake in any of the companies that provide food, security, technology, etc., to prisons -- or just cut out the middleman and open a private prison yourself!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:25 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
That's why you criminalize poverty so the poors do all that unpleasant starving and bleeding in prisons where they can't inconvenience you. Extra upside: more opportunity for kickbacks if you have a stake in any of the companies that provide food, security, technology, etc., to prisons -- or just cut out the middleman and open a private prison yourself!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:25 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm listening to the Goresuch hearings, but I've had to turn the radio off when Lindsay Graham and Orrin hatch were on. Infuriating lectures at the Dems for breaking tradition by not voting for who the repubs want.
Orrin Hatch once said there was “no question” Merrick Garland could be confirmed to the Supreme Court.posted by kirkaracha at 9:26 AM on March 22, 2017 [19 favorites]
...
Hatch said that he had known Garland for years. He added that, if nominated, he would be a “consensus nominee” and that there was “no question” he would be confirmed.
I called the switchboard (202-456-1414) and said I'd heard they were providing free office space to young women with no qualifications and I'd like some and they told me to have a good day (jokes on them, I have no plans to do this).
See, you have to assume the yes. Don't ask for the office space. Ask "Can I move in this week or shall I wait until Monday?" You would know this if you were better at making deals.
posted by Etrigan at 9:26 AM on March 22, 2017 [27 favorites]
See, you have to assume the yes. Don't ask for the office space. Ask "Can I move in this week or shall I wait until Monday?" You would know this if you were better at making deals.
posted by Etrigan at 9:26 AM on March 22, 2017 [27 favorites]
Wash. Post Daily 202 column for March 22, on Politico: Trump's penchant for vengeance casts shadow on health care vote - "Republican lawmakers thinking of bucking the White House on Obamacare know they'll face a president who loves exacting retribution."
Trump really is Machiavellian in the sense that he believes its better to be feared than loved. “For a president with a penchant for vengeance — who named ‘an eye for an eye’ as his favorite biblical passage, who banned media outlets from campaign events when he didn’t approve of their coverage … the roll-call vote on the Republican health care plan will be the first accounting of who’s with him and who’s against him on Capitol Hill," Politico’s Shane Goldmacher writes. "Those close to Trump describe a largely binary world view: You’re either on Team Trump or against Team Trump. 'Get even with people,' Trump outlined … in a 2011 speech. ‘If they screw you, screw them back 10 times as hard. I really believe it.’ The president may be ideologically flexible, even to the point of disinterest, on the particulars of the health care legislation. But Trump’s been clear and consistent about one message: He wants it done.”posted by ZeusHumms at 9:28 AM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
AHCA really is like putting all the amoral fucks together in an arena with a bunch of sharp, pointy objects.
Have fun, guys. Please don't destroy the country in the process of repeatedly stabbing each other in the backs. Couldn't have happened to a nicer party.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:31 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Have fun, guys. Please don't destroy the country in the process of repeatedly stabbing each other in the backs. Couldn't have happened to a nicer party.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:31 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
That $60M SS estimate is absurdly low, Trump is going to want way more than that.
posted by Artw at 9:41 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:41 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Questions I think the Democrats should be asking Gorsuch just to underscore the pure bullshit that the Ginsburg Rule has turned SCOTUS hearings into:
If you were my alarm clock, and I was asleep, how would you wake me up (bonus points for answering "I wouldn't, I'm no ding-a-ling")
Who would win in a fight, Iron Man or Batman?
iPhone or Android?
Do you remember the grumble grumble Goriya from the Legend of Zelda? Can you explain what that was about?
KY Jelly or Wet?
Which pony from the Mane Six is best pony?
Will you do the teapot dance for us right now? I'll accompany you on this kazoo if you'd like to sing!
Do you think Éowyn could have killed the Witch-King of Angmar if Meriadoc Brandybuck hadn't stabbed him with an enchanted anti-morgul knife before she ran him through?
Are you, sir, a member of the turtle club (the person being asked this must reply "you bet your ass I am" if they are a True Turtle)
What fashion designer made your tie?
Please answer the following question via interpretative dance: if you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be?
I mean, we're not going to learn anything no matter what, the questions won't change the outcome of the vote, so why not get some entertainment out of things?
posted by sotonohito at 9:41 AM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
If you were my alarm clock, and I was asleep, how would you wake me up (bonus points for answering "I wouldn't, I'm no ding-a-ling")
Who would win in a fight, Iron Man or Batman?
iPhone or Android?
Do you remember the grumble grumble Goriya from the Legend of Zelda? Can you explain what that was about?
KY Jelly or Wet?
Which pony from the Mane Six is best pony?
Will you do the teapot dance for us right now? I'll accompany you on this kazoo if you'd like to sing!
Do you think Éowyn could have killed the Witch-King of Angmar if Meriadoc Brandybuck hadn't stabbed him with an enchanted anti-morgul knife before she ran him through?
Are you, sir, a member of the turtle club (the person being asked this must reply "you bet your ass I am" if they are a True Turtle)
What fashion designer made your tie?
Please answer the following question via interpretative dance: if you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be?
I mean, we're not going to learn anything no matter what, the questions won't change the outcome of the vote, so why not get some entertainment out of things?
posted by sotonohito at 9:41 AM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Do you remember the grumble grumble Goriya from the Legend of Zelda? Can you explain what that was about?
Oh now you're just baiting him.
posted by Servo5678 at 9:44 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Oh now you're just baiting him.
posted by Servo5678 at 9:44 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Ivanka Trump sits with foreign dignitaries during important meetings, is setting up an office in the White House, is being issued government communications devices, and is seeking national security clearance.
I thought there were qualifications you had to meet to get a security clearance but I guess they give them to anyone.
It must be determined that the individual’s personal and professional history indicates loyalty to the United States, strength of character, trustworthiness, honesty, reliability, discretion, and sound judgment, as well as freedom from conflicting allegiances and potential for coercion, and a willingness and ability to abide by regulations governing the use, handling, and protection of classified information. A determination of eligibility for access to such information is a discretionary security decision based on judgments by appropriately trained adjudicative personnel. Eligibility will be granted only where facts and circumstances indicate access to classified information is clearly consistent with the national security interests of the United States. Access to classified information will be terminated when an individual no longer has need for access.But that's from the fake State Department.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:45 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
FreedomWorks and the Heritage Foundation are both calling for no votes on the AHCA.
This is the only thing I've ever been happy to see come out of either group.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:46 AM on March 22, 2017 [32 favorites]
This is the only thing I've ever been happy to see come out of either group.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:46 AM on March 22, 2017 [32 favorites]
If you're going to ask a SCOTUS appointee a Zelda question, surely it should be "how can an ocarina produce a 'hot beat'?"
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:48 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:48 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
NYTimes: Why Letting Go, for Trump, Is No Small or Simple Task
“I don’t think there’s anything new here in his behavior,’’ said Mr. O’Brien, now the executive editor of Bloomberg View. “He's been doing this kind of thing for the last 45 years.’’posted by ZeusHumms at 9:49 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
“He’s deeply, deeply insecure about how he’s perceived in the world, about whether or not he’s competent and deserves what he’s gotten,” he added. “There’s an unquenchable thirst for validation and love. That’s why he can never stay quiet, even when it would be wise strategically or emotionally to hold back.”
Yeah, I mean, they want No because the bill doesn't starve enough grannies, but yeah.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:50 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:50 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Mod note: "I am bigly! It's the presidency that's gotten small!" fake
The more he ignores facts, repeats falsehoods, demeans institutions and constantly reverses himself, the more the presidency will shrink in power, prestige, relevance and influence. Trump’s approach to governing is therefore, ultimately, self-defeating. With every tweet alleging, for instance, that U.S. allies owe us money or that a free press is the “enemy of the people,” the presidency is diminished. With every press briefing where White House aides insist—against all evidence to the contrary—that candidate Trump was wiretapped by President Obama, he is making himself less powerful. With every undercooked statement or policy rollout, he is defining the presidency down and charting a course for his own failure. And he is also damaging the institution of the presidency for his successors, who will have the challenging task of rebuilding the lost credibility of the office. He risks making that loss his most lasting legacy.posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 9:50 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
How Scott Adams Got Hypnotized by Trump
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:51 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:51 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, I mean, they want No because the bill doesn't starve enough grannies, but yeah.
I know, and yet, if we can stall this thing through the impeachment, I'm ok with the tactics.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:52 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
I know, and yet, if we can stall this thing through the impeachment, I'm ok with the tactics.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:52 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Right...This time the wolves will eat the guy robbing me and leave me be. I'm saved.
posted by Shutter at 9:53 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Shutter at 9:53 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Scotts Adams has been trash since 2001, if not sooner. There's no hypnosis there, just the natural resonance you can observe when two garbage fires meet.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:55 AM on March 22, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 9:55 AM on March 22, 2017 [40 favorites]
Right...This time the wolves will eat the guy robbing me and leave me be. I'm saved.
I think it's more that, for once, it's the right who are crippled by pointless infighting. Nothing wrong with taking a moment to enjoy it before we get back to our own.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:56 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
I think it's more that, for once, it's the right who are crippled by pointless infighting. Nothing wrong with taking a moment to enjoy it before we get back to our own.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:56 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Right...This time the wolves will eat the guy robbing me and leave me be. I'm saved.
Steve and Mark are camping when a bear suddenly comes out and growls. Steve starts putting on his tennis shoes.posted by kirkaracha at 9:58 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Mark says, “What are you doing? You can’t outrun a bear!”
Steve says, “I don’t have to outrun the bear—I just have to outrun you!”
Yeah, we're not saved and I don't think anyone here is under that impression. We may, for now, allow these people to infight long enough for us to go regroup somewhere else for the next battle.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:03 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:03 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
How Scott Adams Got Hypnotized by Trump
Can we please not give any more attention to that walking pus sore?
(I am referring, in this instance, to Scott Adams.)
posted by Behemoth at 10:05 AM on March 22, 2017 [23 favorites]
Can we please not give any more attention to that walking pus sore?
(I am referring, in this instance, to Scott Adams.)
posted by Behemoth at 10:05 AM on March 22, 2017 [23 favorites]
With the way things have been going, I wouldn't be shocked that in September we learn Pence was born in Russia and sent over to work for GRU.
posted by drezdn at 10:05 AM on March 22, 2017
posted by drezdn at 10:05 AM on March 22, 2017
Terrorist attack in London.
I can't help but feel this is either a result of the banning-laptops-on-planes thing.. or what the ban was hoping to prevent?
posted by INFJ at 10:05 AM on March 22, 2017
I can't help but feel this is either a result of the banning-laptops-on-planes thing.. or what the ban was hoping to prevent?
posted by INFJ at 10:05 AM on March 22, 2017
Or just random fuckery.
posted by Artw at 10:08 AM on March 22, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:08 AM on March 22, 2017 [19 favorites]
It's not like there's anything about a car attack or a stabbing that has to be particularly well thought out or planned.
posted by Artw at 10:10 AM on March 22, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:10 AM on March 22, 2017 [19 favorites]
I sure hope so. The timing is a little uncomfortable for me. I haven't been sure what to make of the fact that the UK also instituted that ban.
It came out of no where, from what I can tell. It makes me feel like there was some sort of intelligence tip.
Or maybe I'm still hoping some pieces of our government are still functional.
posted by INFJ at 10:10 AM on March 22, 2017
It came out of no where, from what I can tell. It makes me feel like there was some sort of intelligence tip.
Or maybe I'm still hoping some pieces of our government are still functional.
posted by INFJ at 10:10 AM on March 22, 2017
What Artw said.
posted by Mister Bijou at 10:11 AM on March 22, 2017
posted by Mister Bijou at 10:11 AM on March 22, 2017
So, now I have the image of Biden on the Bridge of Khazad-dûm, gray robes billowing as he lifts sword and staff above his head, shouting at the foul Bannonrog, "THIS SHALL NOT PASS!"
posted by darkstar at 10:12 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 10:12 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
"At presser, Nunes just revealed IC collected info about Americans associated w/ the Trump transition team—separate from Russia probe." (Twitter thread):
Trump's communications were collected as part of the surveillance, Nunes says. Adds that it looks like incidental collection. "We won't know until we get the [details] on Friday," Nunes says. He's hoping to talk to FBI Director Comey today to learn more. "I believe it was all done legally," Nunes says of the surveillance involved here. ...posted by stopgap at 10:12 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
And, to be clear, the banning of laptops, etc. was limited just to carry-ons. People can still carry those items in their checked baggage.
posted by cooker girl at 10:12 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by cooker girl at 10:12 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
2. This is because state law mandates abortion coverage in health insurance, while the AHCA denies tax credits for any policy that does so.
While we should not take anything for granted, and the Republicans will attempt to screw us in any way possible, it is not clear to me that such a provision in AHCA can be passed with reconciliation. An abortion ban is in no way primarily about the budget and, thus, falls afoul of the Byrd Rule for reconciliation.
posted by Justinian at 10:14 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
While we should not take anything for granted, and the Republicans will attempt to screw us in any way possible, it is not clear to me that such a provision in AHCA can be passed with reconciliation. An abortion ban is in no way primarily about the budget and, thus, falls afoul of the Byrd Rule for reconciliation.
posted by Justinian at 10:14 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
"At presser, Nunes just revealed IC collected info about Americans associated w/ the Trump transition team—separate from Russia probe."
he's considering doing his job? Ballsy move.
posted by Artw at 10:15 AM on March 22, 2017
he's considering doing his job? Ballsy move.
posted by Artw at 10:15 AM on March 22, 2017
Following the Twitter reporting on this Nunes presser, it sounds like legal FISA foreign surveillance caught a bunch of communications with the Trump transition, including potentially PEOTUS. This was widely disseminated inside the IC, and details were apparently now leaked to Nunes. So it sounds like whatever investigation details Comey was trying to keep under wraps may have been blown open.
Surely this, etc. etc.
posted by stopgap at 10:16 AM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Surely this, etc. etc.
posted by stopgap at 10:16 AM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
And, to be clear, the banning of laptops, etc. was limited just to carry-ons. People can still carry those items in their checked baggage.
I would never put a laptop I cared about in checked luggage. Not after watching a suitcase fall from head-height off a cart onto the tarmac.
posted by antinomia at 10:17 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
I would never put a laptop I cared about in checked luggage. Not after watching a suitcase fall from head-height off a cart onto the tarmac.
posted by antinomia at 10:17 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
I would never put a laptop I cared about in checked luggage. Not after watching a suitcase fall from head-height off a cart onto the tarmac.
"Could be a bomb. That's too dangerous for the cabin. Throw it in the cargo hold instead."
posted by Talez at 10:18 AM on March 22, 2017 [27 favorites]
"Could be a bomb. That's too dangerous for the cabin. Throw it in the cargo hold instead."
posted by Talez at 10:18 AM on March 22, 2017 [27 favorites]
Geoffrey Nunberg takes on Trump's unconventional use of quotation marks:
Clear away the flattering and fanciful interpretations, and you’re left with this: Trump’s amateurish quotation marks underscore his fraught relation to the written language of public life. He is the least literate president to take office since the rudely schooled Zachary Taylor in 1849 (“an illiterate frontier colonel,” in Daniel Webster’s words), though Trump is deficient, not in education, but in attention span. In a way, that’s a tribute to his success—in modern America, semi-literacy is viable only for those at the very bottom of society, who are rarely called on to read and write, and for those at the very top, who can hire others to do it for them.posted by peeedro at 10:21 AM on March 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
First Lady Rosalynn Carter attended cabinet meetings, leaving Republicans foaming at the mouth.
Yeah, I think it's essentially pretty clear that Ivanka is taking the First Lady role, without actually /being/ the First Lady because Trump has a wife and there's those weird incesty feels people get off the relationship already. But she's far more of the First Lady than Melania at this point, so I think it makes sense to judge her by First Lady standards, which was already a nepotistic role, in that it is the only role in the government it is flat out impossible to get without personal connections.
posted by corb at 10:24 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yeah, I think it's essentially pretty clear that Ivanka is taking the First Lady role, without actually /being/ the First Lady because Trump has a wife and there's those weird incesty feels people get off the relationship already. But she's far more of the First Lady than Melania at this point, so I think it makes sense to judge her by First Lady standards, which was already a nepotistic role, in that it is the only role in the government it is flat out impossible to get without personal connections.
posted by corb at 10:24 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Public Policy Polling has support for the AHCA at 24%. You know when the P-P poll turns against you, you're soaked.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:25 AM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:25 AM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
or what the ban was hoping to prevent?
The ban on carry-on devices didn't effect the UK and so far as I know, no other countries have put the same ban into effect, so I doubt the two are related.
posted by Candleman at 10:26 AM on March 22, 2017
The ban on carry-on devices didn't effect the UK and so far as I know, no other countries have put the same ban into effect, so I doubt the two are related.
posted by Candleman at 10:26 AM on March 22, 2017
Latest from The Hill: 23 R Nay votes. That's enough to prevent passage.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:28 AM on March 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 10:28 AM on March 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
Mod note: Several deleted; let's skip the millionth go-round of "I didn't like Clinton/Dem establishment" vs "it's offensive to go there because Trump is a Nazi"
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:28 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:28 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's not a ban. The electronics ban is not a ban. Those are YOUR words!
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 10:28 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 10:28 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Neil Gorsuch regrets to inform the Senate that he is not God
Supreme Court nominee Neil Gorsuch is, by all accounts, a rare human being. Human being, actually, might be putting it too mildly. “I’m not God,” he told Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) to clear up any concerns Franken might have had on that point.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:29 AM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
“I’m not a philosopher-king,” he told Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.).
“I can’t claim I’m perfect,” he explained, “but I’ve tried awful hard.”
“Goodness, no!” he answered many questions. “Goodness, no!” “Oh goodness, Senator, yes!”
In other (related?) news, Sears/Kmart are probably going out of business due to the now-familiar causes of globalization, offshoring and the digital marketplace.
Sounds like a job for TrumpMan to work his magic meddling and SAVE. THOSE. JOBS.
Somebody fire up the Pig-Signal!
posted by darkstar at 10:30 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Sounds like a job for TrumpMan to work his magic meddling and SAVE. THOSE. JOBS.
Somebody fire up the Pig-Signal!
posted by darkstar at 10:30 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
would never put a laptop I cared about in checked luggage
Not to mention theft that happens during baggage handling. Here I'm more suspicious of the TSA than other nation's handlers. If this ban gets expanded beyond the original country list into a general ban, like the stupid shoes-on-the-xray ban, I'm going to have to make some serious commitments to cloud data storage and travel with a cheap chromebook I could replace if I opened my bag up and found my laptop wasn't there. I can't even imagine how business travellers between say Dubai and the US are going to deal with this. And there are thousands of those.
posted by dis_integration at 10:31 AM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
Not to mention theft that happens during baggage handling. Here I'm more suspicious of the TSA than other nation's handlers. If this ban gets expanded beyond the original country list into a general ban, like the stupid shoes-on-the-xray ban, I'm going to have to make some serious commitments to cloud data storage and travel with a cheap chromebook I could replace if I opened my bag up and found my laptop wasn't there. I can't even imagine how business travellers between say Dubai and the US are going to deal with this. And there are thousands of those.
posted by dis_integration at 10:31 AM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
From the PPP link: "On a related note, 60% of voters think Russia wanted Donald Trump to win last year's election to only 16% who think it wanted Clinton to win."
Part of me wants to be able to crosswalk their different polling. What fraction of the voters who think Russia wanted her to win also think she is a literal demon? Of those, what fraction still wanted to vote for her?
posted by C'est la D.C. at 10:35 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Part of me wants to be able to crosswalk their different polling. What fraction of the voters who think Russia wanted her to win also think she is a literal demon? Of those, what fraction still wanted to vote for her?
posted by C'est la D.C. at 10:35 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Regarding the role of First Lady, which seems to be the roll Ivanka is filling, I was curious how Hillary Clinton was viewed at this time when she became First Lady and found this Vanity Fair article from just after Bill Clinton's first 100 days. I'm just getting into it but it's a pretty fascinating read so far.
posted by Green With You at 10:35 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Green With You at 10:35 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
> So Schumer is saying it: Senate Shouldn’t Vote On Neil Gorsuch While FBI Investigates Trump
Huh, so Schumer is taking the Rude Pundit's advice. Good to know.
posted by homunculus at 10:36 AM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Huh, so Schumer is taking the Rude Pundit's advice. Good to know.
posted by homunculus at 10:36 AM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
That Petri column is more vicious than usual:
This is what privilege looks and sounds and smirks like. It is the erroneous sense that you are sitting at the top because the world is a meritocracy. In this regard, Gorsuch and President Trump are two sides of the same coin. When you are blessed with great success and good luck, it is easy to think that everything good that has ever happened to you is because of your outstanding virtue. You deserve whatever comes to you. And when other people fail to rise, it is because they are — well, they are not perfect.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:40 AM on March 22, 2017 [37 favorites]
Still, as we learned during the hearings, Gorsuch has lived in the world. He skis. He fishes. He spent time at Oxford. He is an Episcopalian. And he has read David Foster Wallace. I am sure he understands suffering.
Has it ever happened that a Supreme Court nominee, during his confirmation hearing, has one of his decisions thoroughly slapped down by a UNANIMOUS decision of the Supreme Court?
Well, it has now.
posted by darkstar at 10:42 AM on March 22, 2017 [138 favorites]
Well, it has now.
posted by darkstar at 10:42 AM on March 22, 2017 [138 favorites]
The Guardian: Will Trump be impeached – or is it just a liberal fantasy?
An awful, clickbait-laden title, paired with a reasonable, Q&A style article about possible impeachment scenarios.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:43 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
An awful, clickbait-laden title, paired with a reasonable, Q&A style article about possible impeachment scenarios.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:43 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
"Could be a bomb. That's too dangerous for the cabin. Throw it in the cargo hold instead."
(Airplane cargo containers actually are hardened against explosions. Not enough to stop a really big bomb, but enough to contain any explosive that could reasonably fit into a laptop or tablet. Whereas the same bomb detonated in the cabin, especially when placed up against a window, could possibly result in decompression of the cabin.)
Which isn't to say that the electronics ban was anything other than made-up bullshit to punish travelers flying on Mideast-based airlines, because it was definitely that. Just that, if a bomb is gonna explode on an airplane, you really do want it to be in the cargo hold rather than the cabin.
posted by tobascodagama at 10:46 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
(Airplane cargo containers actually are hardened against explosions. Not enough to stop a really big bomb, but enough to contain any explosive that could reasonably fit into a laptop or tablet. Whereas the same bomb detonated in the cabin, especially when placed up against a window, could possibly result in decompression of the cabin.)
Which isn't to say that the electronics ban was anything other than made-up bullshit to punish travelers flying on Mideast-based airlines, because it was definitely that. Just that, if a bomb is gonna explode on an airplane, you really do want it to be in the cargo hold rather than the cabin.
posted by tobascodagama at 10:46 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Every time Sean Spicer makes a joke nobody laughs at, my heart grows three sizes
posted by theodolite at 10:47 AM on March 22, 2017 [37 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 10:47 AM on March 22, 2017 [37 favorites]
These extremists are the reason why this bill has a chance of failing.
The "no-healthcare-or-GTFO" fringe may be what will sink it if it dies in the House, sure, but there's also crumbling support from purplish Republicans, particularly in the Senate. Collins and Murkowski aren't basing their position on lunatic hard-right ideology; they're seeing it being really damn bad for their constituency. The big problem Republicans who are even remotely trying to serve their constituencies is that this is bad for a lot of groups and has been roundly condemned by a lot of people who have significant investment in medical care (e.g. the AARP, medical professional orgs, actuarial groups). The sort of Republicans who don't live and die by ideology are very reluctant to get on board with this not because it's immoral, butr because it's incoherent and broken and hated.
It's hard to imagine it getting through the Senate. If it dies from not-being-extreme-enough in the House that cuts it off early but arguably with entirely the wrong lesson learned.
posted by jackbishop at 10:47 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
The "no-healthcare-or-GTFO" fringe may be what will sink it if it dies in the House, sure, but there's also crumbling support from purplish Republicans, particularly in the Senate. Collins and Murkowski aren't basing their position on lunatic hard-right ideology; they're seeing it being really damn bad for their constituency. The big problem Republicans who are even remotely trying to serve their constituencies is that this is bad for a lot of groups and has been roundly condemned by a lot of people who have significant investment in medical care (e.g. the AARP, medical professional orgs, actuarial groups). The sort of Republicans who don't live and die by ideology are very reluctant to get on board with this not because it's immoral, butr because it's incoherent and broken and hated.
It's hard to imagine it getting through the Senate. If it dies from not-being-extreme-enough in the House that cuts it off early but arguably with entirely the wrong lesson learned.
posted by jackbishop at 10:47 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
lolspicey, a little flustered talking about Gorsuch's second 12-hour day of questions yesterday:
"Now at least I know how someone else feels."
posted by cybertaur1 at 10:49 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
"Now at least I know how someone else feels."
posted by cybertaur1 at 10:49 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Watch: Newt Gingrich Last August: "Nobody should underestimate how much Paul Manafort did to get this campaign to where it is right now."Wow. This clip of a helicopter landing in Parliament Square looks like something from a dystopian thriller. (Or "life," as the kids say today.)
— @yashar
posted by octobersurprise at 10:53 AM on March 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
DFw npr switched over to the BBC for news about the bridge/parliament attacker, but just announced they're not going back to cover the rest of the Senate hearing, but are returing to regularly sponsored content. I guess their corporate sponsors got annoyed by public radio broadcasting public access stuff. Good to see how the CEO of our local NPR earns that 600,000 she gets paid every year.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 10:53 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 10:53 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Wow. This clip of a helicopter landing in Parliament Square looks like something from a dystopian thriller. (Or "life," as the kids say today.)
How dystopian can a helicopter be—Oh. That looks like Half Life 2.
posted by Brainy at 10:57 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
How dystopian can a helicopter be—Oh. That looks like Half Life 2.
posted by Brainy at 10:57 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Q: Why is the White House meeting with Nunes? Isn't that interfering with an investigation?
Spicer: uhhhhh. Let's see what he says.
This really stinks and just underlines why this entire thing needs to be handed over to an independent investigatory panel. Nunes, after decrying leaks, is now publicly revealing information about foreign intelligence collection for political purposes.
posted by zachlipton at 11:00 AM on March 22, 2017 [52 favorites]
Spicer: uhhhhh. Let's see what he says.
This really stinks and just underlines why this entire thing needs to be handed over to an independent investigatory panel. Nunes, after decrying leaks, is now publicly revealing information about foreign intelligence collection for political purposes.
posted by zachlipton at 11:00 AM on March 22, 2017 [52 favorites]
I wonder if they realize that constantly complaining about their "U.S. persons" being "unmasked" sounds absurdly shady
posted by theodolite at 11:01 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 11:01 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
I mean, Bill Clinton chats with Loretta Lynch on the plane, and it's the scandal of the century, but Nunes rushing to brief the President in the middle of an active counterintelligence investigation is just fine?
posted by zachlipton at 11:02 AM on March 22, 2017 [68 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 11:02 AM on March 22, 2017 [68 favorites]
"No, you're the puppet" is the official line on Manafort
posted by theodolite at 11:07 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 11:07 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm going to briefly entertain the fantasy that Nunes has been implicated as part of the transition team, Comey has already flipped him and this "run and tell Trump" act is intended to be a motivator to get the cover-up team to make a mistake.
You don't need to tell me that it's a tinfoil hat scenario; I'm aware. I just need this right now.
posted by Freon at 11:08 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
You don't need to tell me that it's a tinfoil hat scenario; I'm aware. I just need this right now.
posted by Freon at 11:08 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
The attack in London was effected with a car and a knife, I fail to see how it could be in any way connected with not being able to use laptops in an aircraft cabin.
posted by walrus at 11:09 AM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by walrus at 11:09 AM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
As always with Trump you have to wonder how many possible ways does this break the law.
Ivanka gets an office and a phone.
She has no role.
Potential Crimes:
1) Campaigning in the White House. She played a role in his presidential campaign and his next campaign is already officially declared.
2) Conducting personal business on government property. Both an unfair commercial advantage (suits are already filed on this one - so now it gets worse!) and a misappropriation of government resources.
3) Anti-nepotism laws - I am not sure a defense of "no official title" gets around the provision of space and a phone unless the space and phone are for her personal (and non-commercial) use only
posted by srboisvert at 11:10 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Ivanka gets an office and a phone.
She has no role.
Potential Crimes:
1) Campaigning in the White House. She played a role in his presidential campaign and his next campaign is already officially declared.
2) Conducting personal business on government property. Both an unfair commercial advantage (suits are already filed on this one - so now it gets worse!) and a misappropriation of government resources.
3) Anti-nepotism laws - I am not sure a defense of "no official title" gets around the provision of space and a phone unless the space and phone are for her personal (and non-commercial) use only
posted by srboisvert at 11:10 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
The helicopter itself is pretty International Rescue looking. It's apparently a MD Explorer. Rotorless anti-torque system!
posted by Artw at 11:10 AM on March 22, 2017
posted by Artw at 11:10 AM on March 22, 2017
I mean, Bill Clinton chats with Loretta Lynch on the plane, and it's the scandal of the century, but Nunes rushing to brief the President in the middle of an active counterintelligence investigation is just fine?
Bill Clinton was a Democrat, see the difference? Treason is NBD if you're a Republican.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:12 AM on March 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
Bill Clinton was a Democrat, see the difference? Treason is NBD if you're a Republican.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:12 AM on March 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
"No plan B" is always a solid strategy.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:13 AM on March 22, 2017
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:13 AM on March 22, 2017
these nunes actions are straight up go to jail timey
posted by localhuman at 11:14 AM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 11:14 AM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Should the UK situation have its own thread? I haven't been following, so I don't know where to start putting one together. But it seems out of place in the US Politics thread.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:14 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 11:14 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
The attack in London was effected with a car and a knife, I fail to see how it could be in any way connected with not being able to use laptops in an aircraft cabin.
If there were no ban, he might have thrown a laptop.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:14 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
If there were no ban, he might have thrown a laptop.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:14 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
this thread is all encompassing it will eat yur life and all foreign terror attacks get away now while you still can
posted by localhuman at 11:14 AM on March 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 11:14 AM on March 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
Freedom Caucus spokeswoman today: more than 25 members are opposed.
Update 1:37 p.m.: More than 25 members of the House Freedom Caucus are opposed to the Republican Obamacare replacement, a spokeswoman for the group said Wednesday. With all Democrats expected to vote against the plan, it would take 22 Republican "no" votes to block it. The announcement came despite direct appeals from Trump, Vice President Mike Pence and House Republican leaders.
More than 25 means that they can't pin the blame on any one or two members of the Caucus. Smart. Rejecting from the right prevents them from getting primaried (can't be too conservative) AND from suffering the consequences of passing this shit legislation.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:15 AM on March 22, 2017 [24 favorites]
Update 1:37 p.m.: More than 25 members of the House Freedom Caucus are opposed to the Republican Obamacare replacement, a spokeswoman for the group said Wednesday. With all Democrats expected to vote against the plan, it would take 22 Republican "no" votes to block it. The announcement came despite direct appeals from Trump, Vice President Mike Pence and House Republican leaders.
More than 25 means that they can't pin the blame on any one or two members of the Caucus. Smart. Rejecting from the right prevents them from getting primaried (can't be too conservative) AND from suffering the consequences of passing this shit legislation.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:15 AM on March 22, 2017 [24 favorites]
Should the UK situation have its own thread? I haven't been following, so I don't know where to start putting one together. But it seems out of place in the US Politics thread.
It's gonna be used to justly something or other awful, so...
(Or, on the off chance it's nazis, watch it disappear so fast. Doesn't have the vibe though.)
posted by Artw at 11:15 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's gonna be used to justly something or other awful, so...
(Or, on the off chance it's nazis, watch it disappear so fast. Doesn't have the vibe though.)
posted by Artw at 11:15 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
The London attack today is on the first anniversary of the Brussels suicide bombings of 2016, if you're looking for a 'why now?'.
Regarding Manafort et al, one of the classic ways to bring down a corrupt individual or group is via a sting, where a journalist or other posing as an interested, rich party secures the agreement of the target with an imaginary deal. I have some hope that this will come to pass, as widely as possible.
posted by Devonian at 11:16 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Regarding Manafort et al, one of the classic ways to bring down a corrupt individual or group is via a sting, where a journalist or other posing as an interested, rich party secures the agreement of the target with an imaginary deal. I have some hope that this will come to pass, as widely as possible.
posted by Devonian at 11:16 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm assuming the Freedom Caucus are not backing the repeal bill because it doesn't go far enough right?
posted by PenDevil at 11:17 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 11:17 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Of course.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:18 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by leotrotsky at 11:18 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
You’re Hired! The Democrats are looking for a big idea? Here’s one: a guaranteed job for anyone who wants one. It’s not as crazy as it sounds.
Democrats have begun the presidency of Donald Trump exiled to the political wilderness. They’ve lost the White House, both houses of Congress, a shocking number of state governments, while the “blue state” vote has turned out to be really just the “blue city” vote.posted by DynamiteToast at 11:18 AM on March 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
The party has cast about for solutions, battling it out over identity politics, the proper opposition strategy, and more. But Democrats might consider taking a cue from Trump himself. Namely, his relentless promises to bring back good-paying American jobs.
Or, on the off chance it's nazis, watch it disappear so fast. Doesn't have the vibe though.
I was listening to the NPR coverage, and someone inside Westminster Hall (I think an MP) was being interviewed. He said something like "We need to make sure to emphasize that violent extremists do not represent the communities they come from. We must not let them take that role."
I thought, "Must not be a white guy, then. Nobody ever assumes white terrorists represent the communities they come from. There'd be absolutely no need to make a statement like that if it were a white guy."
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:20 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
I was listening to the NPR coverage, and someone inside Westminster Hall (I think an MP) was being interviewed. He said something like "We need to make sure to emphasize that violent extremists do not represent the communities they come from. We must not let them take that role."
I thought, "Must not be a white guy, then. Nobody ever assumes white terrorists represent the communities they come from. There'd be absolutely no need to make a statement like that if it were a white guy."
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:20 AM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
I kinda hate using 'charisma' when referring to desired political qualities these days
If we have to choose candidates from the pool of charismatic people, at least give them psych evals and make those public record first because filtering by charisma is virtually guaranteed to yield a higher proportion of high functioning sociopaths and NPDS in office because charisma is one of the diagnostic criterion for those conditions and those types tend to be the ones who want power most.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:21 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
If we have to choose candidates from the pool of charismatic people, at least give them psych evals and make those public record first because filtering by charisma is virtually guaranteed to yield a higher proportion of high functioning sociopaths and NPDS in office because charisma is one of the diagnostic criterion for those conditions and those types tend to be the ones who want power most.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:21 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Spicey just tried to spin Manafort's pro-Putin work as equally relevant to who he played with in the sandbox.
Didn't seem to have worked. This briefing is going rather poorly.
posted by zachlipton at 11:22 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Didn't seem to have worked. This briefing is going rather poorly.
posted by zachlipton at 11:22 AM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
C'mon guys, Manafort has already cleared up this whole "Russia" thing...
(link to CBS video on Twitter)
posted by neroli at 11:22 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
(link to CBS video on Twitter)
posted by neroli at 11:22 AM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
To put this mildly, I believe this is taking the wrong approach. It is hard to express how futile- even counterproductive- your chosen strategy seems to be from my perspective as someone who works with (state) legislative staff.
There are two modes of success when it comes to getting your legislators to do what you want. First, you can elect the right person. That's largely not something that can be done until 2018. Second mode is getting legislators to believe that their actual constituents strongly believe [thing]. If you communicate with the wrong legislators, you are eroding the trust that legislators have that what they hear from "their constituents" actually comes from their constituents. You are helping them dismiss feedback from the people. You are avoiding one of the two modes of success available to you. Don't do that.
posted by Jpfed at 11:15 AM on March 22
Yeah I don't need to be mansplained on how our system is supposed to work. I have voted in every local state and federal election since I was 18. I'm 54 now. THAT has been an exercise in futility. I'm annoyed by the insinuation that I've not been voting for, as you say "the right person".
If elected officials really gave a shit about their constituents, they'd make an effort to meet with them and really LISTEN, like, say a town hall perhaps? Yeah that isn't happening here.
The system is fucking broken. When that happens, you do whatever you can to be heard.
posted by yoga at 11:26 AM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
There are two modes of success when it comes to getting your legislators to do what you want. First, you can elect the right person. That's largely not something that can be done until 2018. Second mode is getting legislators to believe that their actual constituents strongly believe [thing]. If you communicate with the wrong legislators, you are eroding the trust that legislators have that what they hear from "their constituents" actually comes from their constituents. You are helping them dismiss feedback from the people. You are avoiding one of the two modes of success available to you. Don't do that.
posted by Jpfed at 11:15 AM on March 22
Yeah I don't need to be mansplained on how our system is supposed to work. I have voted in every local state and federal election since I was 18. I'm 54 now. THAT has been an exercise in futility. I'm annoyed by the insinuation that I've not been voting for, as you say "the right person".
If elected officials really gave a shit about their constituents, they'd make an effort to meet with them and really LISTEN, like, say a town hall perhaps? Yeah that isn't happening here.
The system is fucking broken. When that happens, you do whatever you can to be heard.
posted by yoga at 11:26 AM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
it would take 22 Republican "no" votes to block it
If it's true that Trump's hard-sell moved 10 people to "no" then he shot himself in the foot. Good!
posted by drezdn at 11:26 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
If it's true that Trump's hard-sell moved 10 people to "no" then he shot himself in the foot. Good!
posted by drezdn at 11:26 AM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
C'mon guys, Manafort has already cleared up this whole "Russia" thing...
Remember that show where Tim Roth played a genius microexpression expert who could tell whenever someone was lying, which was depicted on-screen via comically obvious tells
posted by theodolite at 11:27 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Remember that show where Tim Roth played a genius microexpression expert who could tell whenever someone was lying, which was depicted on-screen via comically obvious tells
posted by theodolite at 11:27 AM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
C'mon guys, Manafort has already cleared up this whole "Russia" thing...
Remember that show where Tim Roth played a genius microexpression expert who could tell whenever someone was lying, which was depicted on-screen via comically obvious tells
I was thinking more of the original Conan O'Brien opening with animated flopsweat.
posted by Etrigan at 11:29 AM on March 22, 2017
Remember that show where Tim Roth played a genius microexpression expert who could tell whenever someone was lying, which was depicted on-screen via comically obvious tells
I was thinking more of the original Conan O'Brien opening with animated flopsweat.
posted by Etrigan at 11:29 AM on March 22, 2017
Rep. Lou Barletta (R-Pa.), one of Trump’s earliest campaign supporters in Congress, said Tuesday that the bill failed to include safeguards to prevent abuse by undocumented immigrants.
Barletta has already flipped back after some quid pro quo:
Barletta has already flipped back after some quid pro quo:
“Millions of Americans can no longer afford health insurance under Obamacare, while at the same time, three-quarters of a billion dollars in Obamacare subsidies have been given to illegal immigrants,” Barletta said. “President Trump and Speaker Ryan agreed with me last night that this is wrong and must be fixed. The president gave his full support to legislation I will introduce to deny health care tax credits to illegal immigrants, and the speaker promised to bring the bill to the House floor for a vote. Because my concerns were met, I will vote for the bill with the understanding that my bill will receive full consideration on the House floor next month.”posted by gladly at 11:30 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
I wonder how long it will be before Trump/Spicer deny knowing someone who is standing right next to them. "Mike Pence played a very minor role in my campaign. Frankly, I've never even met the man."
posted by drezdn at 11:31 AM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 11:31 AM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
Has it ever happened that a Supreme Court nominee, during his confirmation hearing, has one of his decisions thoroughly slapped down by a UNANIMOUS decision of the Supreme Court?
Well, it has now.
posted by darkstar at 1:42 PM on March 22
Ths is the most beautiful thing I"ve read all day.
posted by yoga at 11:32 AM on March 22, 2017 [36 favorites]
Well, it has now.
posted by darkstar at 1:42 PM on March 22
Ths is the most beautiful thing I"ve read all day.
posted by yoga at 11:32 AM on March 22, 2017 [36 favorites]
I'm baffled by all this hope that the Republican tax-care bill might not pass the house.
I certainly would not discount the ability of Republicans to push this through. As an example, the last time Republicans pushed through a healthcare plan was in 2004. This was Medicare Part D which provides pharmaceutical insurance for seniors on Medicare.
Although Democrats also wanted pharmaceutical coverage, the Republican bill was a nightmare, just like the AHCA. It was a big handout to pharmaceutical manufacturers and insurance companies. This was the bill that codified that Medicare could not negotiate drug prices and making importation illegal. And there was not one dime of tax revenue to cover the costs. It was pure deficit spending, supposedly toxic to Republican dogma.
Like the AHCA, the Part D bill was hard to swallow even for some Republicans. But leadership needed to push it through to support Bush's re-election bid in 2004, deficits be damned. All the Democrats were opposed, many Republicans also were opposed. It seemed that the bill was destined to fail. But Majority Leader Tom Delay keep the voting open for three hours in the middle of the night while whips beat up on recalcitrant Republicans. Under normal rules voting is closed after 15 minutes. Tom Delay even issued at least one outright bribe on the floor of Congress, for which he was later sanctioned. But they managed to push it through by one vote.
Do not underestimate the ability of Republicans to pull out all the stops and break all the rules for a political must-pass bill. This all should sound familiar. An unpopular bill that violated Republican principles, must-pass for political reasons, seemingly impossible odds -- yet it passed.
posted by JackFlash at 11:32 AM on March 22, 2017 [47 favorites]
I certainly would not discount the ability of Republicans to push this through. As an example, the last time Republicans pushed through a healthcare plan was in 2004. This was Medicare Part D which provides pharmaceutical insurance for seniors on Medicare.
Although Democrats also wanted pharmaceutical coverage, the Republican bill was a nightmare, just like the AHCA. It was a big handout to pharmaceutical manufacturers and insurance companies. This was the bill that codified that Medicare could not negotiate drug prices and making importation illegal. And there was not one dime of tax revenue to cover the costs. It was pure deficit spending, supposedly toxic to Republican dogma.
Like the AHCA, the Part D bill was hard to swallow even for some Republicans. But leadership needed to push it through to support Bush's re-election bid in 2004, deficits be damned. All the Democrats were opposed, many Republicans also were opposed. It seemed that the bill was destined to fail. But Majority Leader Tom Delay keep the voting open for three hours in the middle of the night while whips beat up on recalcitrant Republicans. Under normal rules voting is closed after 15 minutes. Tom Delay even issued at least one outright bribe on the floor of Congress, for which he was later sanctioned. But they managed to push it through by one vote.
Do not underestimate the ability of Republicans to pull out all the stops and break all the rules for a political must-pass bill. This all should sound familiar. An unpopular bill that violated Republican principles, must-pass for political reasons, seemingly impossible odds -- yet it passed.
posted by JackFlash at 11:32 AM on March 22, 2017 [47 favorites]
I mean, Bill Clinton chats with Loretta Lynch on the plane, and it's the scandal of the century, but Nunes rushing to brief the President in the middle of an active counterintelligence investigation is just fine?
Republican or Democrat, having a chat with the person in charge of the department who is investigating your wife is just plain fucking dumb.
posted by Talez at 11:34 AM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
Republican or Democrat, having a chat with the person in charge of the department who is investigating your wife is just plain fucking dumb.
posted by Talez at 11:34 AM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
Because my concerns were met, I will vote for the bill with the understanding that my bill will receive full consideration on the House floor next month.
Okay, how long after his bill doesn't make it out of committee will Barletta be back to praising Trump and/or Ryan?
posted by Etrigan at 11:34 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Okay, how long after his bill doesn't make it out of committee will Barletta be back to praising Trump and/or Ryan?
posted by Etrigan at 11:34 AM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
SPICER: "Why are you saying the Executive Order on energy independence is delayed?"
JOURNALIST: "Your office told us it was due weeks ago."
posted by MattWPBS at 11:34 AM on March 22, 2017 [60 favorites]
JOURNALIST: "Your office told us it was due weeks ago."
posted by MattWPBS at 11:34 AM on March 22, 2017 [60 favorites]
I wonder how long it will be before Trump/Spicer deny knowing someone who is standing right next to them. "Mike Pence played a very minor role in my campaign. Frankly, I've never even met the man."
That's actually going to be President Pence's line after 45 gets handcuffed in the Oval Office. "Who, that guy? I wouldn't be able to pick him out in a line up."
posted by lydhre at 11:35 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
That's actually going to be President Pence's line after 45 gets handcuffed in the Oval Office. "Who, that guy? I wouldn't be able to pick him out in a line up."
posted by lydhre at 11:35 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Muslims inside FBI describe culture of suspicion and fear: 'It is cancer'. Said ‘Sam’ Barodi was fired after he refused to cooperate with customs agents who he believed were targeting him because of his ethnicity and religion. His and other accounts paint a stark picture of the bureau in the era of Trump
posted by homunculus at 11:38 AM on March 22, 2017 [47 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 11:38 AM on March 22, 2017 [47 favorites]
Yeah I don't need to be mansplained on how our system is supposed to work
I'm a female scientist so I've been mansplained at. I don't think that was mansplaining. That was "legislative staff" splaining. Like, mansplaining is when a man with no expertise thinks he knows more than the female expert, just because he's a man. But having served on the staff of a legislator is relevant expertise, and I think it's worth at least taking the informed opinion of someone who has had that experience into account, rather than dismissing it.
As a woman with no particular expertise in this, I also don't think it's a good idea to call legislators who don't represent you and pretend to be their constituents, for what that's worth. It does seem to dilute to power of the calls of their real constituents.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:38 AM on March 22, 2017 [39 favorites]
I'm a female scientist so I've been mansplained at. I don't think that was mansplaining. That was "legislative staff" splaining. Like, mansplaining is when a man with no expertise thinks he knows more than the female expert, just because he's a man. But having served on the staff of a legislator is relevant expertise, and I think it's worth at least taking the informed opinion of someone who has had that experience into account, rather than dismissing it.
As a woman with no particular expertise in this, I also don't think it's a good idea to call legislators who don't represent you and pretend to be their constituents, for what that's worth. It does seem to dilute to power of the calls of their real constituents.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:38 AM on March 22, 2017 [39 favorites]
after 45 gets handcuffed in the Oval Office.
the real sticky point in my impeachment fantasies is the whole secret service/US marshals/private security team shootout
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:40 AM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
the real sticky point in my impeachment fantasies is the whole secret service/US marshals/private security team shootout
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:40 AM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
The Senate could take the first step tonight to kill the FCC’s privacy rules
They're rushing on this too.
posted by zachlipton at 11:41 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
They're rushing on this too.
posted by zachlipton at 11:41 AM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Spicey's a true believer, right?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:42 AM on March 22, 2017
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:42 AM on March 22, 2017
More than 25 means that they can't pin the blame on any one or two members of the Caucus. Smart. Rejecting from the right prevents them from getting primaried (can't be too conservative) AND from suffering the consequences of passing this shit legislation.
It boggles my mind that the so-called "Freedom Caucus" is going to wind up voting against a massive tax cut for the wealthy on the grounds that it throws a few crumbs to the lower and middle classes.
posted by Gelatin at 11:43 AM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
It boggles my mind that the so-called "Freedom Caucus" is going to wind up voting against a massive tax cut for the wealthy on the grounds that it throws a few crumbs to the lower and middle classes.
posted by Gelatin at 11:43 AM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
It boggles my mind that the so-called "Freedom Caucus" is going to wind up voting against a massive tax cut for the wealthy on the grounds that it throws a few crumbs to the lower and middle classes.
Beyond even "tax cuts for the wealthy", the central premise of modern conservatism in the U.S. is "It's better for 99 people who need something not to get it than for 1 person who doesn't need it to get it."
posted by Etrigan at 11:47 AM on March 22, 2017 [30 favorites]
Beyond even "tax cuts for the wealthy", the central premise of modern conservatism in the U.S. is "It's better for 99 people who need something not to get it than for 1 person who doesn't need it to get it."
posted by Etrigan at 11:47 AM on March 22, 2017 [30 favorites]
"It's better for 99 people who need something not to get it than for 1 person who doesn't need it to get it."
Except for the death penalty, where the state murdering 1 innocent person is collateral damage in the "justified" killing of the other 99.
posted by PenDevil at 11:50 AM on March 22, 2017 [19 favorites]
Except for the death penalty, where the state murdering 1 innocent person is collateral damage in the "justified" killing of the other 99.
posted by PenDevil at 11:50 AM on March 22, 2017 [19 favorites]
I wonder: Is the unanimous decision against Gorsuch's ruling by SCOTUS perhaps a message about their disapproval of him as a candidate? Was there perhaps some wiggle room where a conservative judge could have dissented and wrangled the point and yet surprisingly didn't? Or was this just such a chucklefuck decision that the law required a total smackdown, which I suppose is it's own message?
posted by Freon at 11:51 AM on March 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Freon at 11:51 AM on March 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
Juan Perón shows how Trump could destroy our democracy without tearing it down
In postwar Latin America, former fascists like Perón decided that if dictatorship could no longer be successful or globally accepted, democracy could still be undermined, stripped of its liberal features and repackaged as authoritarian populist democracy.posted by DevilsAdvocate at 11:58 AM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
More good news from Moody's: Forget EPA Climate Regulations. Cheap Wind Is Already Putting 56 Gigawatts of Coal Plants at Risk
soren_lorensen: But you don't get Manly Man Manninist Points for building wind turbines.
Rick Perry Can Do For U.S. Energy What He Did For Texas (Forbes, Jan 19, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 12:03 PM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
soren_lorensen: But you don't get Manly Man Manninist Points for building wind turbines.
Rick Perry Can Do For U.S. Energy What He Did For Texas (Forbes, Jan 19, 2017)
In nominating Governor Perry, Trump has selected someone who recognizes the importance of infrastructure and has delivered results. After Perry signed legislation directing the development of new transmission lines, Texas sited and built over 2,300 miles of high-voltage electricity lines. Called CREZ lines (Competitive Renewable Energy Zones), this not only solved a congestion problem for getting West Texas wind on the grid, but gave greater capacity to conventional generation as Texas taps shale formations in the region—major contributing factors in keeping Texas as the No. 1 wind power state, while providing needed electricity for West Texas oil and gas production.Texas Leads Nation In Wind Energy (Houston Public Media, February 10, 2017)
Last year, the wind in the Lone Star State produced more than 20,000 megawatts of electricity.In short: Rick Perry could be really good for wind energy in the US, if he's not blocked by Trump or his other lackeys/ managers.
“That’s enough energy to power more than 5.7 million homes here in Texas, and also provide more than 25,000 jobs here in Texas,” said Tom Kiernan, who runs the wind energy trade group.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:03 PM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
I wonder how long it will be before Trump/Spicer deny knowing someone who is standing right next to them. "Mike Pence played a very minor role in my campaign. Frankly, I've never even met the man."
Remember Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf? They were already blowing out the back walls of wherever he was live-broadcasting while he kept (metaphorically spoken) saying "there are no walls and what you hear here is our popcorn machine." That's the thing that makes me so queasy, there's no end to that particular section of the road toward crazyland. Tomorrow, Trump will declare his hair is green, and people will all be, gee, why didn't we see this ourselves.
posted by Namlit at 12:04 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Remember Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf? They were already blowing out the back walls of wherever he was live-broadcasting while he kept (metaphorically spoken) saying "there are no walls and what you hear here is our popcorn machine." That's the thing that makes me so queasy, there's no end to that particular section of the road toward crazyland. Tomorrow, Trump will declare his hair is green, and people will all be, gee, why didn't we see this ourselves.
posted by Namlit at 12:04 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
AARP is bringing squirrels to to the Capitol tomorrow (well, people in squirrel suits anyway) to demonstrate that the AHCA is nuts.
I think political stunts involving mascots are really my favorite.
posted by zachlipton at 12:07 PM on March 22, 2017 [59 favorites]
I think political stunts involving mascots are really my favorite.
posted by zachlipton at 12:07 PM on March 22, 2017 [59 favorites]
Chris Coons went to law school at Yale and Gorsuch is taking a tone with him like he's trying to explain something to a 5 year old dullard.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:07 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:07 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
Chris Coons went to law school at Yale and Gorsuch is taking a tone with him like he's trying to explain something to a 5 year old dullard.
Good to know that Amy Klobuchar isn't the only one. He doesn't hate women, y'all, just Elis.
posted by Etrigan at 12:09 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Good to know that Amy Klobuchar isn't the only one. He doesn't hate women, y'all, just Elis.
posted by Etrigan at 12:09 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Nunes now going to bat for Trump outside the White House
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:09 PM on March 22, 2017
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:09 PM on March 22, 2017
darkstar: Has it ever happened that a Supreme Court nominee, during his confirmation hearing, has one of his decisions thoroughly slapped down by a UNANIMOUS decision of the Supreme Court?
Well, it has now.
Bad news: HE IS REALLY YOUNG, as far as Chief Justices go.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:10 PM on March 22, 2017 [27 favorites]
Well, it has now.
Both the Supreme Court’s decision and Gorsuch’s 2008 opinion involved the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA), which requires that public school systems which take certain federal funds provide a “free appropriate public education” to certain students with disabilities.Good news: while Gorsuch is a monster, he's an outlier.
Applying this law to individual students, the Supreme Court acknowledged in its Wednesday opinion in Endrew F. v. Douglas County School District, is not an exact science. “A focus on the particular child is at the core of the IDEA,” Chief Justice John Roberts wrote for the unanimous Supreme Court. “The instruction offered must be ‘specially designed’ to meet a child’s ‘unique needs’ through an ‘[i]ndividualized education program.’”
...
Under Gorsuch’s opinion in Luke P., a school district complies with the law so long as they provide educational benefits that “must merely be ‘more than de minimis.’”
“De minimis” is a Latin phrase meaning “so minor as to merit disregard.” So Gorsuch essentially concluded that school districts comply with their obligation to disabled students so long as they provide those students with a little more than nothing.
All eight justices rejected Gorsuch’s approach. IDEA, Chief Justice Roberts wrote, “is markedly more demanding than the ‘merely more than de minimis’ test applied by the Tenth Circuit.” Indeed, Roberts added, Gorsuch’s approach would effectively strip many disabled students of their right to an education. Roberts went on:When all is said and done, a student offered an educational program providing “merely more than de minimis” progress from year to year can hardly be said to have been offered an education at all. For children with disabilities, receiving instruction that aims so low would be tantamount to “sitting idly . . . awaiting the time when they were old enough to ‘drop out.’”
Bad news: HE IS REALLY YOUNG, as far as Chief Justices go.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:10 PM on March 22, 2017 [27 favorites]
Yea I've only listened to like 45 minutes hear and there on NPR, but Gorsuch sounds so condescending and annoyed all the time. It's like he came ready for the Democrats to be assholes, but he's doing it to a couple of the Republicans too so maybe that's just how he sounds.
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:13 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:13 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
on the grounds that it throws a few crumbs to the lower and middle classes.
One suspects that if they could get language limiting AHCA benefits to only white lower class families they'd be cool with it though.
posted by spitbull at 12:14 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
One suspects that if they could get language limiting AHCA benefits to only white lower class families they'd be cool with it though.
posted by spitbull at 12:14 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
AHCA news: Both FreedomWorks and Heritage are calling for a No and are scoring the bill.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:15 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Chrysostom at 12:15 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Indignant is the word I wanted. I listen to Gorsuch and it seems like he can't believe he has to sit there and actually answer questions or anything.
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:16 PM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by DynamiteToast at 12:16 PM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
You’re Hired! The Democrats are looking for a big idea? Here’s one: a guaranteed job for anyone who wants one. It’s not as crazy as it sounds.
So Kevin Kline is running in 2020? </dave>
posted by mikepop at 12:17 PM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
So Kevin Kline is running in 2020? </dave>
posted by mikepop at 12:17 PM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
Can we go back to the laptop ban again for a second? Because it is a thing of subtle beauty. They're trying to stop a bombing of a passenger carrier. Yeah, OK, sounds legit. Let's go to the intelligence report.
1. It can elude all existing explosives-detecting measures in security checkpoints.
2. It cannot be modified to trigger remotely, either via radio signal or by the addition of a timer.
3. It can, through unknown means, be made smaller without compromising any of the above.
4. However, it cannot then be implanted in a smart-phone, medical device, or other electronic equipment currently permitted on flights from these airports.
5. Its handlers can be thwarted by forcing them to check their luggage from these 10 airports.
6. Its handlers cannot devise a way of booking separate itineraries/hybrid airlines from one of the affected airports by deplaning in Canada or Mexico
7. Its handlers cannot otherwise be detected by any other existing intelligence apparatus
Did I get everything? Should I go through and point out exactly which items contradict which other ones? Either way, that sure does sound like one hell of an unstoppable bombing menace. Why, a MacGuffin like this is worthy of a Bond film. Good thing its technical details are specifically handicapped so as to be defeated by policy measures that just so happen to benefit the administration's agenda.
posted by Mayor West at 12:20 PM on March 22, 2017 [67 favorites]
Three intelligence sources told The Daily Beast that the ban on carry-on electronics aboard U.S.-bound flights from 10 airports in North Africa and the Middle East was the result of information seized during a U.S. raid on Al Qaeda in Yemen in January. The United Kingdom joined the U.S. ban Tuesday.Huh. Something seems off. Let's dig into the exact constraints of what this hypothetical explosive device (and its handlers) can and cannot do.
Information from the raid shows al Qaeda's successful development of compact, battery bombs that fit inside laptops or other devices believed to be strong enough to bring down an aircraft, the sources said. The battery bombs would need to be manually triggered, a source explained, which is why the electronics ban is only for the aircraft cabin not checked luggage.
1. It can elude all existing explosives-detecting measures in security checkpoints.
2. It cannot be modified to trigger remotely, either via radio signal or by the addition of a timer.
3. It can, through unknown means, be made smaller without compromising any of the above.
4. However, it cannot then be implanted in a smart-phone, medical device, or other electronic equipment currently permitted on flights from these airports.
5. Its handlers can be thwarted by forcing them to check their luggage from these 10 airports.
6. Its handlers cannot devise a way of booking separate itineraries/hybrid airlines from one of the affected airports by deplaning in Canada or Mexico
7. Its handlers cannot otherwise be detected by any other existing intelligence apparatus
Did I get everything? Should I go through and point out exactly which items contradict which other ones? Either way, that sure does sound like one hell of an unstoppable bombing menace. Why, a MacGuffin like this is worthy of a Bond film. Good thing its technical details are specifically handicapped so as to be defeated by policy measures that just so happen to benefit the administration's agenda.
posted by Mayor West at 12:20 PM on March 22, 2017 [67 favorites]
The talking heads on TV are aghast at what Nunes just did.
posted by Justinian at 12:20 PM on March 22, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 12:20 PM on March 22, 2017 [24 favorites]
Did I get everything? Should I go through and point out exactly which items contradict which other ones?
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Trumpist motion.
posted by Etrigan at 12:21 PM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Trumpist motion.
posted by Etrigan at 12:21 PM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
The talking heads on TV are aghast at what Nunes just did.
He just torpedoed the possibility of a bi-partisan House investigation
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:25 PM on March 22, 2017 [22 favorites]
He just torpedoed the possibility of a bi-partisan House investigation
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:25 PM on March 22, 2017 [22 favorites]
The talking heads on TV are aghast at what Nunes just did.
will they release Jeffery Lord from his canopic urn to provide the counterpoint
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:26 PM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
will they release Jeffery Lord from his canopic urn to provide the counterpoint
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:26 PM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
It's funny, by which I mean not at all funny. During the transition, everyone was all aghast at Trump for taking foreign leader calls on his unsecured personal cell phone without talking to the State Department or anyone who knew what they were doing, saying that the calls could be targeted by foreign intelligence services. It turns out that they, in fact, were.
posted by zachlipton at 12:26 PM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:26 PM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
Did I get everything?
I would add:
8. It can be used as "proof" that Trump's botched Yemen raid was a success.
posted by peeedro at 12:27 PM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
I would add:
8. It can be used as "proof" that Trump's botched Yemen raid was a success.
posted by peeedro at 12:27 PM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
Did I get everything? Should I go through and point out exactly which items contradict which other ones? Either way, that sure does sound like one hell of an unstoppable bombing menace.
Christ, I figured the justification would be specious, but... I mean, do terrorists buy these unstoppable superbombs from the same place Saddam bought those magical WMD-producing tailers?
posted by tobascodagama at 12:28 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Christ, I figured the justification would be specious, but... I mean, do terrorists buy these unstoppable superbombs from the same place Saddam bought those magical WMD-producing tailers?
posted by tobascodagama at 12:28 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
The talking heads on TV are aghast at what Nunes just did.
He is so out in 2018. CrowdPAC just started raising money for "whoever runs against him."
posted by Sophie1 at 12:29 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
He is so out in 2018. CrowdPAC just started raising money for "whoever runs against him."
posted by Sophie1 at 12:29 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
In my imagination this was a canary trap and Nunes failed miserably. Sadly, my imagination isn't real life.
posted by Justinian at 12:31 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 12:31 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
While CA District 22 has gone exclusively Republican for the last couple of years, the folks in his district are 44% Latinx.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:32 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 12:32 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Airplane cargo containers actually are hardened against explosions ... if a bomb is gonna explode on an airplane, you really do want it to be in the cargo hold rather than the cabin.
Most cargo containers are not hardened for explosions. They have been doing some experiments just in the last year or two but are not deployed in any number yet.
But even more important, very little luggage goes in a cargo container. Most just is stacked on the floor of the cargo hold. Cargo containers are mostly used for commercial freight and mail, not luggage.
And it makes no difference if the explosion is in the cargo hold or the cabin. They both share the same pressurized air space. Decompression in the hold means decompression in the cabin. And there is no special hardening of the cargo section of the airplane. In fact, it is even more open with exposed critical hydraulic and electrical lines than the cabin.
posted by JackFlash at 12:33 PM on March 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
Most cargo containers are not hardened for explosions. They have been doing some experiments just in the last year or two but are not deployed in any number yet.
But even more important, very little luggage goes in a cargo container. Most just is stacked on the floor of the cargo hold. Cargo containers are mostly used for commercial freight and mail, not luggage.
And it makes no difference if the explosion is in the cargo hold or the cabin. They both share the same pressurized air space. Decompression in the hold means decompression in the cabin. And there is no special hardening of the cargo section of the airplane. In fact, it is even more open with exposed critical hydraulic and electrical lines than the cabin.
posted by JackFlash at 12:33 PM on March 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
As an example, the last time Republicans pushed through a healthcare plan was in 2004. This was Medicare Part D which provides pharmaceutical insurance for seniors on Medicare.
One of the things I've noticed that is possibly a result of the part D bill is a large increase in reported improper Medicare payments to doctors starting around 2009. As I understand it, this roughly coincides with a switchover in Medicare billing contracting that was mandated by the bill. In 2008 the improper fee-for-service rate was 3.6%; in 2009 it jumped to 10.8%. (Link — click on the "Historical" tab for data.)
In 2008, Medicare billing switched from 48 contracted claims payment processors to 23 Medicare Administrative Contractors (MACs). This was supposed to streamline things.
No idea if the switchover was responsible for the jump in improper payments, or if perhaps there was a change in the way that the rate of improper payments was determined, or if it was better scrutinized during the Obama admin, but if someone could shed some light on the subject, I would much appreciate it. It's something I've wondered about.
posted by compartment at 12:33 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
One of the things I've noticed that is possibly a result of the part D bill is a large increase in reported improper Medicare payments to doctors starting around 2009. As I understand it, this roughly coincides with a switchover in Medicare billing contracting that was mandated by the bill. In 2008 the improper fee-for-service rate was 3.6%; in 2009 it jumped to 10.8%. (Link — click on the "Historical" tab for data.)
In 2008, Medicare billing switched from 48 contracted claims payment processors to 23 Medicare Administrative Contractors (MACs). This was supposed to streamline things.
No idea if the switchover was responsible for the jump in improper payments, or if perhaps there was a change in the way that the rate of improper payments was determined, or if it was better scrutinized during the Obama admin, but if someone could shed some light on the subject, I would much appreciate it. It's something I've wondered about.
posted by compartment at 12:33 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
I almost hate to say this in case one of those "Freedom Caucus" guys is reading, but...
But isn't it incredibly counter-productive for them to hold out for a more Xtreme! Obamacare repeal, given the whole "reconciliation process" plan? I mean, I read a half dozen explainers before this bill was released saying that the Republicans couldn't kill the pre-existing condition coverage requirement through reconciliation. And Democrats would filibuster any attempt to kill it with a regular bill. Not to mention the fact that even Republicans like that part of Obamacare -- and many of them like the Medicaid expansion too.
If you're going to continue to require coverage for pre-existing conditions, which is incredibly expensive for insurance companies, you have to give young, healthy people incentives to buy insurance! Otherwise the premiums will have to sky rocket, or insurance companies will go out of business, or both. If you ditch the mandate and subsidies, how do you get healthy people to buy insurance? It was always likely that Trumpcare was going to have to be "Obamacare lite" to make it through without a senate filibuster!
Does the Freedom Caucus not understand this? That there is literally no possible way to pass the bill they claim to want, without going "nuclear option" on the filibuster? Is that what they want senate Republicans to do? Are they thinking Republicans themselves will never be a Senate minority again? (seems unlikely unless they are planning to cancel/rig all future elections!) Do they think senators will want to give up the personal power the filibuster gives them? Do they understand that many Republican senators actually want a more moderate version of this bill?
Or is this just very cynical posturing? Is it actually that they know it will be bad for them if this bill passes, because their constituents will realize they were lied to about what Obamacare is? Do they secretly have a problem with the bill because it is too harsh and will hurt their re-election chances, but have to pretend their problem with it is that it's not harsh enough, to protect their ideological brand?
What's going to happen if Trump follows through on these vague threats of reprisals against these guys? Are they going to turn on Trump? Is their willingness to buck Trump a sign that Republican loyalty to him might be fracturing? Is the smell of scandal getting strong enough that these guys think it will actually help their electoral fortunes if Trump starts attacking them? Are they trying to draw such attacks, as a way of distancing themselves from him?
Or are they just totally disconnected from reality, living in fantasy land and demanding ideological unicorns without regard for how impossible their demands are?
Just how does it make sense for these guys to oppose this bill, which is honestly the closest thing they are likely to get to a "real" Obamacare repeal? Don't get me wrong, I really hope they do continue to oppose it, I just don't understand why they're doing it!
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:33 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
But isn't it incredibly counter-productive for them to hold out for a more Xtreme! Obamacare repeal, given the whole "reconciliation process" plan? I mean, I read a half dozen explainers before this bill was released saying that the Republicans couldn't kill the pre-existing condition coverage requirement through reconciliation. And Democrats would filibuster any attempt to kill it with a regular bill. Not to mention the fact that even Republicans like that part of Obamacare -- and many of them like the Medicaid expansion too.
If you're going to continue to require coverage for pre-existing conditions, which is incredibly expensive for insurance companies, you have to give young, healthy people incentives to buy insurance! Otherwise the premiums will have to sky rocket, or insurance companies will go out of business, or both. If you ditch the mandate and subsidies, how do you get healthy people to buy insurance? It was always likely that Trumpcare was going to have to be "Obamacare lite" to make it through without a senate filibuster!
Does the Freedom Caucus not understand this? That there is literally no possible way to pass the bill they claim to want, without going "nuclear option" on the filibuster? Is that what they want senate Republicans to do? Are they thinking Republicans themselves will never be a Senate minority again? (seems unlikely unless they are planning to cancel/rig all future elections!) Do they think senators will want to give up the personal power the filibuster gives them? Do they understand that many Republican senators actually want a more moderate version of this bill?
Or is this just very cynical posturing? Is it actually that they know it will be bad for them if this bill passes, because their constituents will realize they were lied to about what Obamacare is? Do they secretly have a problem with the bill because it is too harsh and will hurt their re-election chances, but have to pretend their problem with it is that it's not harsh enough, to protect their ideological brand?
What's going to happen if Trump follows through on these vague threats of reprisals against these guys? Are they going to turn on Trump? Is their willingness to buck Trump a sign that Republican loyalty to him might be fracturing? Is the smell of scandal getting strong enough that these guys think it will actually help their electoral fortunes if Trump starts attacking them? Are they trying to draw such attacks, as a way of distancing themselves from him?
Or are they just totally disconnected from reality, living in fantasy land and demanding ideological unicorns without regard for how impossible their demands are?
Just how does it make sense for these guys to oppose this bill, which is honestly the closest thing they are likely to get to a "real" Obamacare repeal? Don't get me wrong, I really hope they do continue to oppose it, I just don't understand why they're doing it!
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:33 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Did I get everything? Should I go through and point out exactly which items contradict which other ones? Either way, that sure does sound like one hell of an unstoppable bombing menace.
Battery bombs present a very specific level of threat.
posted by jackbishop at 12:35 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Battery bombs present a very specific level of threat.
posted by jackbishop at 12:35 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Just how does it make sense for these guys to oppose this bill, which is honestly the closest thing they are likely to get to a "real" Obamacare repeal?
Because they know that if Obamacare really does get repealed, their constituents will realize how much better than nothing it was. They're not actually worried that it's insufficiently conservative. That's why guys who voted for straight-up repeal when Obama would veto it even if it got out of the Senate aren't voting for the AHCA -- because it might happen.
posted by Etrigan at 12:36 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Because they know that if Obamacare really does get repealed, their constituents will realize how much better than nothing it was. They're not actually worried that it's insufficiently conservative. That's why guys who voted for straight-up repeal when Obama would veto it even if it got out of the Senate aren't voting for the AHCA -- because it might happen.
posted by Etrigan at 12:36 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
I listen to Gorsuch and it seems like he can't believe he has to sit there and actually answer questions or anything.
Someone up for a SCOTUS seat ought to be aware that it's conditional on the advice and consent of the Senate, even if it is largely political theater. No one forced him to accept the nomination. If he doesn't like it, he can walk away, literally.
posted by Gelatin at 12:37 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Someone up for a SCOTUS seat ought to be aware that it's conditional on the advice and consent of the Senate, even if it is largely political theater. No one forced him to accept the nomination. If he doesn't like it, he can walk away, literally.
posted by Gelatin at 12:37 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Does the Freedom Caucus not understand this?
Well, they are, as a whole, not very bright.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:37 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Well, they are, as a whole, not very bright.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:37 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
in case one of those "Freedom Caucus" guys is reading, but...
Naah, Metafilter has far too many big words.
posted by spitbull at 12:38 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Naah, Metafilter has far too many big words.
posted by spitbull at 12:38 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Has it ever happened that a Supreme Court nominee, during his confirmation hearing, has one of his decisions thoroughly slapped down by a UNANIMOUS decision of the Supreme Court?
It's really saying something that Gorsuch is more extreme than Roberts, more extreme than Alito, more extreme than Thomas. That's some hideous monster level of extremism.
posted by JackFlash at 12:38 PM on March 22, 2017 [25 favorites]
It's really saying something that Gorsuch is more extreme than Roberts, more extreme than Alito, more extreme than Thomas. That's some hideous monster level of extremism.
posted by JackFlash at 12:38 PM on March 22, 2017 [25 favorites]
Now he's Neilsplaining Brown to Dick Blumenthal WHO ALSO WENT TO YALE LAW.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:38 PM on March 22, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:38 PM on March 22, 2017 [18 favorites]
The system is fucking broken. When that happens, you do whatever you can to be heard.
This is not what you are doing. You're just adding to the noise.
You say that the problem is elected representatives not listening. Do you think it's more or less likely that they'll listen to you over one of their constituents? If the issue is reps not listening to the constituents who call them in what world is more calls from people who don't at all effect them going to help? You'll likely succeed in talking to a staffer while forcing someone who actually lives in that district, who can actually VOTE for or against the rep whose office you're calling, to leave a voicemail message. All you're doing is diluting and quieting the message coming from that rep's constituency.
You're part of the problem. Kindly KNOCK IT THE FUCK OFF!
posted by VTX at 12:38 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
This is not what you are doing. You're just adding to the noise.
You say that the problem is elected representatives not listening. Do you think it's more or less likely that they'll listen to you over one of their constituents? If the issue is reps not listening to the constituents who call them in what world is more calls from people who don't at all effect them going to help? You'll likely succeed in talking to a staffer while forcing someone who actually lives in that district, who can actually VOTE for or against the rep whose office you're calling, to leave a voicemail message. All you're doing is diluting and quieting the message coming from that rep's constituency.
You're part of the problem. Kindly KNOCK IT THE FUCK OFF!
posted by VTX at 12:38 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Everybody* in the Senate thinks the House is full of dangerous lunatics who pass damn fool stunt bills to show off how righteously pure they are, and that the majority caucus has absolute power over what happens. They shudder at the thought of the Senate becoming that way.
Everybody in the House thinks the Senate is full of old fuddy-duddies who make long speeches and slow-play all the awesome legislation the House passes, and that if they just Cared Enough and Tried Harder, they would really be able to be as righteously pure as the House is.
* Except Ted Cruz
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:39 PM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Everybody in the House thinks the Senate is full of old fuddy-duddies who make long speeches and slow-play all the awesome legislation the House passes, and that if they just Cared Enough and Tried Harder, they would really be able to be as righteously pure as the House is.
* Except Ted Cruz
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:39 PM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
It's hard to imagine what acting in bad faith would look like, if not that.
Unfortunately we don't need to imagine what acting in bad faith looks like; we just have to look at pretty much everything the Republicans have done since at least the Clinton Administration. Denying Garland even so much as a hearing springs readily to mind.
posted by Gelatin at 12:39 PM on March 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
Unfortunately we don't need to imagine what acting in bad faith looks like; we just have to look at pretty much everything the Republicans have done since at least the Clinton Administration. Denying Garland even so much as a hearing springs readily to mind.
posted by Gelatin at 12:39 PM on March 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
All you're doing is diluting and quieting the message coming from that rep's constituency.
The tactic being suggested here is to call and say that you're from that rep's constituency, not to call and say "Hey, I'm never going to live anywhere near your shitty state, but...".
posted by Etrigan at 12:40 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
The tactic being suggested here is to call and say that you're from that rep's constituency, not to call and say "Hey, I'm never going to live anywhere near your shitty state, but...".
posted by Etrigan at 12:40 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
In other post-Trump news, Hill Republicans Say They're Growing Frustrated With Mattis
Mattis has bristled at nominating people with political backgrounds, including Randy Forbes, a former Virginia congressman who was considered for secretary of the Navy, and former Missouri Sen. Jim Talent, a Republican with expertise in defense policy, whose name has been floated for several senior defense posts. Senior members of the Republican foreign policy establishment had been pushing for the nominations of both men, neither of whom was openly critical of Trump during the campaign. Mattis has instead opted for deputies with backgrounds in law, diplomacy and business.posted by corb at 12:42 PM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Now he's Neilsplaining Brown to Dick Blumenthal WHO ALSO WENT TO YALE LAW.
If it weren't for the danger to the Republic, I'd actually admire that kind of dickheaded rivalry.
Fuck UCLA, fuck Ohio State, turbofuck Notre Dame.
posted by Etrigan at 12:42 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
If it weren't for the danger to the Republic, I'd actually admire that kind of dickheaded rivalry.
Fuck UCLA, fuck Ohio State, turbofuck Notre Dame.
posted by Etrigan at 12:42 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Now he's Neilsplaining Brown to Dick Blumenthal WHO ALSO WENT TO YALE LAW.
If it weren't for the danger to the Republic, I'd actually admire that kind of dickheaded rivalry.
Oh, it's not about the rivalry. It's the condescension, like he doesn't get that he's speaking to other lawyers or if he does, that he thinks they are lesser lawyers.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:47 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
If it weren't for the danger to the Republic, I'd actually admire that kind of dickheaded rivalry.
Oh, it's not about the rivalry. It's the condescension, like he doesn't get that he's speaking to other lawyers or if he does, that he thinks they are lesser lawyers.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:47 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's the condescension, like he doesn't get that he's speaking to other lawyers or if he does, that he thinks they are lesser lawyers.
"I don't see you being nominated to the Supreme Court!" [fake]
As if Gorsuch's nomination had anything at all to do with his ability as a jurist as opposed to his conservative credentials. Feh.
posted by Gelatin at 12:51 PM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
"I don't see you being nominated to the Supreme Court!" [fake]
As if Gorsuch's nomination had anything at all to do with his ability as a jurist as opposed to his conservative credentials. Feh.
posted by Gelatin at 12:51 PM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
It's the condescension, like he doesn't get that he's speaking to other lawyers or if he does, that he thinks they are lesser lawyers.
Klobuchar, Coons, and Blumenthal went to Yale Law; Gorsuch went to Harvard Law. That's one of the original American college rivalries.
posted by Etrigan at 12:51 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Klobuchar, Coons, and Blumenthal went to Yale Law; Gorsuch went to Harvard Law. That's one of the original American college rivalries.
posted by Etrigan at 12:51 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
The tactic being suggested here is to call and say that you're from that rep's constituency, not to call and say "Hey, I'm never going to live anywhere near your shitty state, but...".
I'm aware. Point stands. The more stories of people making calls like that emerge (and this is not the only place I've seen people saying that they're calling reps outside of their district) the more it encourages these reps to dismiss every call that comes into their office as not coming from a constituent.
posted by VTX at 12:52 PM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
I'm aware. Point stands. The more stories of people making calls like that emerge (and this is not the only place I've seen people saying that they're calling reps outside of their district) the more it encourages these reps to dismiss every call that comes into their office as not coming from a constituent.
posted by VTX at 12:52 PM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
The more stories of people making calls like that emerge (and this is not the only place I've seen people saying that they're calling reps outside of their district) the more it encourages these reps to dismiss every call that comes into their office as not coming from a constituent.
And, as mentioned earlier in the thread that you're responding to, they are already doing that.
posted by Etrigan at 12:54 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
And, as mentioned earlier in the thread that you're responding to, they are already doing that.
posted by Etrigan at 12:54 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
The tactic being suggested here is to call and say that you're from that rep's constituency, not to call and say "Hey, I'm never going to live anywhere near your shitty state, but...".
This. VTX, I find it hard to believe that a less-than-15-second phone call will obliterate anyone else's ability to call/leave a vmail.
posted by yoga at 12:54 PM on March 22, 2017
This. VTX, I find it hard to believe that a less-than-15-second phone call will obliterate anyone else's ability to call/leave a vmail.
posted by yoga at 12:54 PM on March 22, 2017
Does the Freedom Caucus not understand this?
Some of them are undoubtedly MAGA fucks who want Washington out of their local ability tomaintain white supremacy govern their own affairs. So for them, there's no genuine ideological thing at stake here, they just want to spit at everything.
But some of them are naive ideologues *cough* Justin Amash *cough* who are genuinely committed to an individualistic, libertarian conception of the State that approaches anarchism in its blind unwillingness to understand that having a civilized society requires some level of taxation for the purpose of things other than merely maintaining a military.
And they believe that if they keep fighting for the whole loaf instead of taking the 80% of a loaf and coming back for the other 20% later, they'll be better off. They see the 'welfare state' as self-perpetuating and naturally tending toward tyranny, so they're not willing to take the tradeoff.
The mindset isn't really that far off the Bernie-or-busters; it's not just a matter of their political goals (Paul Ryan pretty much shares them) but of their belief that full moral opposition to the modern state requires complete political opposition to compromise.
I mean, it's an ethos?
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:55 PM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Some of them are undoubtedly MAGA fucks who want Washington out of their local ability to
But some of them are naive ideologues *cough* Justin Amash *cough* who are genuinely committed to an individualistic, libertarian conception of the State that approaches anarchism in its blind unwillingness to understand that having a civilized society requires some level of taxation for the purpose of things other than merely maintaining a military.
And they believe that if they keep fighting for the whole loaf instead of taking the 80% of a loaf and coming back for the other 20% later, they'll be better off. They see the 'welfare state' as self-perpetuating and naturally tending toward tyranny, so they're not willing to take the tradeoff.
The mindset isn't really that far off the Bernie-or-busters; it's not just a matter of their political goals (Paul Ryan pretty much shares them) but of their belief that full moral opposition to the modern state requires complete political opposition to compromise.
I mean, it's an ethos?
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:55 PM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
but unlike the bernie-or-busters, they get results and their agenda changes policy
posted by idiopath at 12:59 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by idiopath at 12:59 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
And, as mentioned earlier in the thread that you're responding to, they are already doing that.
Then why in the fuck are you still picking up the phone!
If you think the problem is that reps aren't listening to their constituents, MORE calls from people who are NOT constituents is a total waste of time. Why is it so hard to convince you to stop?
posted by VTX at 12:59 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Then why in the fuck are you still picking up the phone!
If you think the problem is that reps aren't listening to their constituents, MORE calls from people who are NOT constituents is a total waste of time. Why is it so hard to convince you to stop?
posted by VTX at 12:59 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Rep. Lou Barletta (R-Pa.), one of Trump’s earliest campaign supporters in Congress, said Tuesday that the bill failed to include safeguards to prevent abuse by undocumented immigrants.
I am second-gen and trying very hard to raise Baby Machine without corporal punishment or threats of physical violence of the kind found in a lot of Chinese families, but I swear to you that if my adult children or grandchildren or great-grandchildren pull this nasty brand of pulling-the-ladder-up-after-them, bare-human-decency-requires-empathy-but-your-special-brand-of-hypocrisy-involves-forgetting-what-it-cost-women-in-your-line-of-ancestry-so-that-you-could-be-born-in-this-country-and-have-these-opportunities-e.g.-not-fucking-starving-to-death-by-the-time-you-were-a-toddler
I will fucking rise up from the grave, if necessary, to smite them in the side of the head with my knuckles in true Chinese granny style.
posted by joyceanmachine at 12:59 PM on March 22, 2017 [64 favorites]
I am second-gen and trying very hard to raise Baby Machine without corporal punishment or threats of physical violence of the kind found in a lot of Chinese families, but I swear to you that if my adult children or grandchildren or great-grandchildren pull this nasty brand of pulling-the-ladder-up-after-them, bare-human-decency-requires-empathy-but-your-special-brand-of-hypocrisy-involves-forgetting-what-it-cost-women-in-your-line-of-ancestry-so-that-you-could-be-born-in-this-country-and-have-these-opportunities-e.g.-not-fucking-starving-to-death-by-the-time-you-were-a-toddler
I will fucking rise up from the grave, if necessary, to smite them in the side of the head with my knuckles in true Chinese granny style.
posted by joyceanmachine at 12:59 PM on March 22, 2017 [64 favorites]
Did...did Nunes just fall on his sword trying to throw shade on the Trump/Putin investigation? Did he just leak classified information to the press?
WTF is going on??
My good god.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 1:01 PM on March 22, 2017 [30 favorites]
WTF is going on??
My good god.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 1:01 PM on March 22, 2017 [30 favorites]
If you think the problem is that reps aren't listening to their constituents, MORE calls from people who are NOT constituents is a total waste of time. Why is it so hard to convince you to stop?
Well, I'm not doing it, for one. My own local Rep is plenty dumb enough that talking to his staff takes up my time.
For another, I'm not saying that calling is entirely ineffective. I'm saying that they're already dismissive of it and similar group actions, largely because they can't bring themselves to believe that that many people are against them. But just because it doesn't work every time doesn't mean that it's a bad idea every time. The more weight we can put on each and every one of them, the better.
posted by Etrigan at 1:03 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well, I'm not doing it, for one. My own local Rep is plenty dumb enough that talking to his staff takes up my time.
For another, I'm not saying that calling is entirely ineffective. I'm saying that they're already dismissive of it and similar group actions, largely because they can't bring themselves to believe that that many people are against them. But just because it doesn't work every time doesn't mean that it's a bad idea every time. The more weight we can put on each and every one of them, the better.
posted by Etrigan at 1:03 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
He just exploded the entire investigation process.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 1:05 PM on March 22, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 1:05 PM on March 22, 2017 [30 favorites]
filthy light thief: Good news: while Gorsuch is a monster, he's an outlier.
And now Gorsuch has been asked about his 2008 ruling (NPR live blog of the confirmation hearing, linking to the relevant section from earlier today)
posted by filthy light thief at 1:06 PM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
And now Gorsuch has been asked about his 2008 ruling (NPR live blog of the confirmation hearing, linking to the relevant section from earlier today)
Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa quizzed, or rather praised, Gorsuch about his decision in a 2008 case about the standard of school accommodations for an autistic student. And at roughly the same time, the Supreme Court unanimously rejected the legal standard used by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit, which Gorsuch has sat on as an appellate judge for more than a decade.I think it's worth something that he can say he was wrong and he was sorry, even if he claims he ruled because of circuit precedent. At the same time, I don't think this should clear him, because what's to keep him from turning to any other (shaky) precedence if/when he's a member of the SCOTUS? "Sorry, but I have to follow the original intent of the founding fathers here." After all, he's an originalist, which Feinstein grilled him on today.
...
Democratic Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois had the opportunity to ask Gorsuch about the Supreme Court decision overruling him.
"Why, why in your early decision, did you want to lower the bar so low to merely more than de minimis as a standard for public education to meet this federal requirement under the law?" Durbin asked.
Gorsuch said, “If anyone is suggesting that I like a result where an autistic child happens to lose — that's a heartbreaking accusation to me." Gorsuch said that he was bound by the 10th Circuit’s precedent, a 1996 case that set the standard for reviewing IDEA claims in that court.
“I was wrong, Senator,” Gorsuch said, acknowledging the Supreme Court’s Wednesday decision. “I was wrong because I was bound by circuit precedent. And I’m sorry.”
posted by filthy light thief at 1:06 PM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
TURBOFUCK
posted by erisfree at 1:10 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by erisfree at 1:10 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
I will say that for those of us in blue areas, we feel like we are being held hostage by a small group of ideologues from other places. I get that that's baked into our system to some extent but gerrymandering, the electoral college, and voter suppression all colluded to ensure that a small group of voters elected an even smaller group of shitheads who are now threatening national legislation that effects everyone. We call our own reps and they're like, "I know that feel, bro." What else can we do? Shit that effects every last one of us is being determined by people who don't give a shit about anyone except the 50,000 people in their own district. So again: what the hell do we do?
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:11 PM on March 22, 2017 [49 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:11 PM on March 22, 2017 [49 favorites]
There can be no bipartisan investigation now. This is FUCKED. He did this unilaterally, without Schiff knowing. What a fucking piece of fucking shit.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 1:12 PM on March 22, 2017 [43 favorites]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 1:12 PM on March 22, 2017 [43 favorites]
soren_lorensen, I think we either have to change the electoral system and ungerrymander the nation, or everyone talking about fleeing to Canada needs instead to flee to Ocala, FL. Neither seems very possible.
posted by Don Pepino at 1:13 PM on March 22, 2017
posted by Don Pepino at 1:13 PM on March 22, 2017
Can someone explain why a bipartisan investigation can't happen now? I'm not connecting the dots.
posted by marshmallow peep at 1:15 PM on March 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by marshmallow peep at 1:15 PM on March 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
Because the House Republicans are incapable of leading a fair investigation, and they're one of the two parties that would make up a bipartisan Congressional investigation. (We already knew this.)
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:17 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:17 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
From the WaPo, I was wrong about Rex Tillerson:
The hard-working staff here at Spoiler Alerts has given Secretary of State Rex Tillerson a hard time in recent weeks. In particular, I have noted Tillerson’s abject failure to communicate his message through the media. So it seems only fair that when Tillerson actually does speak to the media, I should pay attention.posted by peeedro at 1:17 PM on March 22, 2017 [30 favorites]
I bring this up because Tuesday night Erin McPike, the one reporter permitted on Tillerson’s plane for his latest trip, filed her 3,300-word story. Reading it, I have come to one unmistakable conclusion: I was wrong about encouraging Tillerson to speak with the press. Tillerson should shut the heck up until he demonstrates that he knows what he’s taking about.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what people are saying is that the illusion that the House intelligence committee is acting on a bipartisan basis has now been blown to smithereens. I don't think it rules out the possibility of an independent bipartisan investigation (assuming Nunes goes nowhere near it), and in fact it strengthens that possibility.
posted by Dr. Send at 1:17 PM on March 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Dr. Send at 1:17 PM on March 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
You guys, fleeing to Canada, and I say this as a Canadian, will not save you from Fascism if America can't unfuck itself from this constitutional crisis. They will come for us next because of proximity to our resources, which we have in spades. This may sound hyperbolic but it's not. The free world is not safe.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 1:20 PM on March 22, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 1:20 PM on March 22, 2017 [38 favorites]
Can someone explain why a bipartisan investigation can't happen now? I'm not connecting the dots.
Because one side just took information from a classified briefing and disseminated it to a) the press and b) the subject of the investigation. This sort of puts paid to the notion that a fair and impartial review of the facts will be had and rather sort of explicitly demonstrates that the investigation will be used as a way to stay one step ahead of prosecutors.
An independent counsel is what's needed now.
posted by Freon at 1:20 PM on March 22, 2017 [67 favorites]
Because one side just took information from a classified briefing and disseminated it to a) the press and b) the subject of the investigation. This sort of puts paid to the notion that a fair and impartial review of the facts will be had and rather sort of explicitly demonstrates that the investigation will be used as a way to stay one step ahead of prosecutors.
An independent counsel is what's needed now.
posted by Freon at 1:20 PM on March 22, 2017 [67 favorites]
So, call me naive, but I always sort of thought that there were the Dems, who I mostly agreed with in terms of social programs and government responsibility. Of course there would be the random Dem that was embezzling or smoking crack, or getting a blowjob but that was always going to be the case. Then there were the Repubs who I disagreed with vehemently on all issues of social welfare and abortion and civil rights and they were backward but they were no more or less unethical than the Dems. Of course, someone was always going to get caught with a wide stance in a men's room and someone was going to get caught hiking the Appalachian Trail, or having a diaper fetish and most of the time that would be a Republican, but it could just as likely be a Democrat.
But I am discovering that no, there are no ethical Republican legislators as far as I can tell. There is not one with a spine, not a single one that will stand up for the people of this country despite our differences. There is not one without skeletons in their dacha's closets that will be used against them. I cannot imagine what it must be like for a Republican person to learn this.
posted by Sophie1 at 1:21 PM on March 22, 2017 [18 favorites]
But I am discovering that no, there are no ethical Republican legislators as far as I can tell. There is not one with a spine, not a single one that will stand up for the people of this country despite our differences. There is not one without skeletons in their dacha's closets that will be used against them. I cannot imagine what it must be like for a Republican person to learn this.
posted by Sophie1 at 1:21 PM on March 22, 2017 [18 favorites]
An independent counsel is what's needed now.
And good luck getting one.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:22 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
And good luck getting one.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:22 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
The talking heads on TV are aghast at what Nunes just did.
Did...did Nunes just fall on his sword trying to throw shade on the Trump/Putin investigation? Did he just leak classified information to the press?
Fair Mefis, can you please please please please please please pretty please include links? Or some kind of summary of what you're ... talking about? Because I STILL have no idea what Nunes did today, and it's not on any front page that I'm seeing.
I'd like to know, but I honestly don't have the time or attention to devote to a full-on search just to keep up with the conversation, during the workday. And I don't Twitter.
Please, please please.
posted by Dashy at 1:22 PM on March 22, 2017 [48 favorites]
Did...did Nunes just fall on his sword trying to throw shade on the Trump/Putin investigation? Did he just leak classified information to the press?
Fair Mefis, can you please please please please please please pretty please include links? Or some kind of summary of what you're ... talking about? Because I STILL have no idea what Nunes did today, and it's not on any front page that I'm seeing.
I'd like to know, but I honestly don't have the time or attention to devote to a full-on search just to keep up with the conversation, during the workday. And I don't Twitter.
Please, please please.
posted by Dashy at 1:22 PM on March 22, 2017 [48 favorites]
Here's a page with a bad summary of what Nunes did but it has the full presser embedded.
posted by zrail at 1:24 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by zrail at 1:24 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Seems like Devin Nunes needs to be rolled up into independent investigations of the Victimizer-in-Chief, Pence, Sessions, Tillerson, Manafort, etc. for possible collusion with the Russian government to influence the US election.
Very serious questions exist about Nunes' credibility and loyalty to our Republic. He should be stripped of his chair.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:24 PM on March 22, 2017 [25 favorites]
Very serious questions exist about Nunes' credibility and loyalty to our Republic. He should be stripped of his chair.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:24 PM on March 22, 2017 [25 favorites]
I had provided a link above, here it is again.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 1:25 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 1:25 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Here's a Politico write-up on the Nunes thing.
Washington-beat-journalist twitter is going bonkers, if you want to calibrate your antennae.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:27 PM on March 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
Washington-beat-journalist twitter is going bonkers, if you want to calibrate your antennae.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:27 PM on March 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
WaPo Link
Nunes apparently decided to brief the President that there was incidental collection of some of Trump's calls that occured during the execution of a FISA warrant, held a press conference which discussed some details of a classified FISA warrant, and as the chairman of the house intelligence committee, failed to brief his democratic counterpart before doing any of these things.
Curse words fail me.
posted by nolabasashi at 1:28 PM on March 22, 2017 [65 favorites]
Nunes apparently decided to brief the President that there was incidental collection of some of Trump's calls that occured during the execution of a FISA warrant, held a press conference which discussed some details of a classified FISA warrant, and as the chairman of the house intelligence committee, failed to brief his democratic counterpart before doing any of these things.
Curse words fail me.
posted by nolabasashi at 1:28 PM on March 22, 2017 [65 favorites]
Thank you.
posted by Dashy at 1:28 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Dashy at 1:28 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
You guys, fleeing to Canada, and I say this as a Canadian, will not save you from Fascism if America can't unfuck itself from this constitutional crisis. They will come for us next because of proximity to our resources, which we have in spades. This may sound hyperbolic but it's not. The free world is not safe.
Umm, yes. I'm bewildered at the idea many American liberals seem to have that if the rule of law dies, the Detroit River will save us.
nope
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:29 PM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
Umm, yes. I'm bewildered at the idea many American liberals seem to have that if the rule of law dies, the Detroit River will save us.
nope
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:29 PM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
Did you try typing "Nunes" into Google? This Axios article, just filed, is a decent summary of what's going on: Devin Nunes creates his own "big, gray cloud"
posted by zachlipton at 1:29 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:29 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile, Congress is busy getting people back to work Rolling Obama-Era Rule On Hunting Bears And Wolves In Alaska
As the Alaska Dispatch News points out, this debate gets to the core of a long-running dispute:posted by filthy light thief at 1:30 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]"At the heart of the disagreement between state and federal wildlife managers is what each group thinks should guide its purpose. The federal government has argued that the goal on refuges and in parks should be biodiversity. The state Board of Game has an interest in ensuring maximum sustained populations for hunting."Ensuring the "maximum sustained populations" of commonly hunted prey species like elk, moose and caribou often means reining in the populations of their predators — namely, bears and wolves. In the 2016 restrictions, federal regulators argued that the Alaskan Board of Game had gone too far in prioritizing the populations of prey species over predators.
Nunes apparently decided to brief the President that there was incidental collection of some of Trump's calls that occured during the execution of a FISA warrant, held a press conference which discussed some details of a classified FISA warrant, and as the chairman of the house intelligence committee, failed to brief his democratic counterpart before doing any of these things.
Dollars to donuts Trump takes the first part of this...this deplorable set of actions as "vindication" of his infamous wiretap tweet.
posted by Gelatin at 1:30 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Dollars to donuts Trump takes the first part of this...this deplorable set of actions as "vindication" of his infamous wiretap tweet.
posted by Gelatin at 1:30 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
during the execution of a FISA warrant
Multiple FISA warrants, from what I've seen.
Lie down with shady-ass conmen and traitors, get up with FISA warrants.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:30 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Multiple FISA warrants, from what I've seen.
Lie down with shady-ass conmen and traitors, get up with FISA warrants.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:30 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Shit that effects every last one of us is being determined by people who don't give a shit about anyone except the 50,000 people in their own district. So again: what the hell do we do?
There are so many things you can do!
1) March! If you hear of a protest (You're more likely to hear of them if you join your local "Indivisible" group(s)) you can show up! In my area there have been all kinds of protests lately, from people marching in support of immigrants, to a "stake out" at my congressman's office on healthcare, to "with or without him" town hall meetings... And that's not even counting the airport protests, the women's march, the upcoming (April 22nd) multi-city March for Science, and on going Black Lives Matter protests, etc.
2) Join activist organizations. Go to meetings. Like the ACLU "People Power" group, the League of Women Voters, and of course your local Indivisible group meetings.
3) Engage with your Trump supporting acquaintances to the best of your ability. Just repeat the short simple message that you don't trust him, if you don't feel like arguing with them. Short simple repeated messages eventually get through to people.
5) Clicktivism! That links to a whole list I already posted to MeFi of things you can do directly from your smartphone. I would add "write letters to the editor" to that list now -- though I haven't done it yet, I plan to!
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:31 PM on March 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
There are so many things you can do!
1) March! If you hear of a protest (You're more likely to hear of them if you join your local "Indivisible" group(s)) you can show up! In my area there have been all kinds of protests lately, from people marching in support of immigrants, to a "stake out" at my congressman's office on healthcare, to "with or without him" town hall meetings... And that's not even counting the airport protests, the women's march, the upcoming (April 22nd) multi-city March for Science, and on going Black Lives Matter protests, etc.
2) Join activist organizations. Go to meetings. Like the ACLU "People Power" group, the League of Women Voters, and of course your local Indivisible group meetings.
3) Engage with your Trump supporting acquaintances to the best of your ability. Just repeat the short simple message that you don't trust him, if you don't feel like arguing with them. Short simple repeated messages eventually get through to people.
5) Clicktivism! That links to a whole list I already posted to MeFi of things you can do directly from your smartphone. I would add "write letters to the editor" to that list now -- though I haven't done it yet, I plan to!
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:31 PM on March 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
This. VTX, I find it hard to believe that a less-than-15-second phone call will obliterate anyone else's ability to call/leave a vmail.
No, but if a certain subset of callers on one side of an issue are not constituents, then unscrupulous assholes like Paul Ryan will use that as an excuse to dismiss all callers who do not fit with their preferred action. I get that there's a frustration if you have a rep who's already on your side, but reps who aren't yours gives them ammo to ignore their constituents who share your views.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:31 PM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
No, but if a certain subset of callers on one side of an issue are not constituents, then unscrupulous assholes like Paul Ryan will use that as an excuse to dismiss all callers who do not fit with their preferred action. I get that there's a frustration if you have a rep who's already on your side, but reps who aren't yours gives them ammo to ignore their constituents who share your views.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:31 PM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
Dollars to donuts Trump takes the first part of this...this deplorable set of actions as "vindication" of his infamous wiretap tweet.
Yer a wizard, Harry.
posted by PenDevil at 1:33 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yer a wizard, Harry.
posted by PenDevil at 1:33 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
Dollars to donuts Trump takes the first part of this...this deplorable set of actions as "vindication" of his infamous wiretap tweet.
Already has. Trump said he feels "somewhat vindicated", there's even a fundraising email gone out and Breitbart is on the case too.
posted by TwoWordReview at 1:33 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Already has. Trump said he feels "somewhat vindicated", there's even a fundraising email gone out and Breitbart is on the case too.
posted by TwoWordReview at 1:33 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Umm, yes. I'm bewildered at the idea many American liberals seem to have that if the rule of law dies, the Detroit River will save us.
nope
I mean, does nobody else wonder why basically the entirety of the budget is being spent on the already huge military? Literally almost all of it? Jesus.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 1:34 PM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
nope
I mean, does nobody else wonder why basically the entirety of the budget is being spent on the already huge military? Literally almost all of it? Jesus.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 1:34 PM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
You guys, fleeing to Canada, and I say this as a Canadian, will not save you from Fascism if America can't unfuck itself from this constitutional crisis. They will come for us next because of proximity to our resources, which we have in spades. This may sound hyperbolic but it's not. The free world is not safe.
Seconding this as a Canadian living in the US. This is part of why we haven't packed up and fled home, even though my American spouse has the skills and assets to make it an easy transition. We decided to do as much good as we can, while we still can, and our fight would be strongest here. Honestly, I am fighting as much to keep my homeland safe as I am for the US itself. A kleptocratic, authoritarian, fascist regime here is absolutely going to turn a predatory eye towards Canada sooner rather than later. Even before this clusterfuck of an election there was talk about the water wars of the future.
posted by orbit-3 at 1:35 PM on March 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
Seconding this as a Canadian living in the US. This is part of why we haven't packed up and fled home, even though my American spouse has the skills and assets to make it an easy transition. We decided to do as much good as we can, while we still can, and our fight would be strongest here. Honestly, I am fighting as much to keep my homeland safe as I am for the US itself. A kleptocratic, authoritarian, fascist regime here is absolutely going to turn a predatory eye towards Canada sooner rather than later. Even before this clusterfuck of an election there was talk about the water wars of the future.
posted by orbit-3 at 1:35 PM on March 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
Nunes was on the transition team, right?
So he's probably freaking out that they have communication on him.
posted by asteria at 1:36 PM on March 22, 2017 [42 favorites]
So he's probably freaking out that they have communication on him.
posted by asteria at 1:36 PM on March 22, 2017 [42 favorites]
They are ramping up to expand empire. This is Bannon's wet dream.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 1:36 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 1:36 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Hell, I've contemplated moving locally just to get into a conservative district and try to push the reps there, or get progressives elected.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:36 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 1:36 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
I mean, does nobody else wonder why basically the entirety of the budget is being spent on the already huge military? Literally almost all of it? Jesus.
Well, there's a 200-year-old norm that the US and Canada don't invade each other. So it's understandable that people would forget that it's not an impossibility.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:37 PM on March 22, 2017
Well, there's a 200-year-old norm that the US and Canada don't invade each other. So it's understandable that people would forget that it's not an impossibility.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:37 PM on March 22, 2017
You guys, fleeing to Canada, and I say this as a Canadian, will not save you from Fascism if America can't unfuck itself from this constitutional crisis. They will come for us next because of proximity to our resources, which we have in spades. This may sound hyperbolic but it's not. The free world is not safe.
Pretty much. The only thing dumber than this is the premise that blue states should secede.
As if that would ever happen peacefully.
And as if it's cool to just leave every marginalized person in a red state to the mercy of white nationalism.
My contempt for "blue exit" talk is probably unfit for posting on MeFi.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:38 PM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Pretty much. The only thing dumber than this is the premise that blue states should secede.
As if that would ever happen peacefully.
And as if it's cool to just leave every marginalized person in a red state to the mercy of white nationalism.
My contempt for "blue exit" talk is probably unfit for posting on MeFi.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:38 PM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
It's flabbergasting to me that Nunes could manage to overshadow a goddamn (alleged) terror attack at Westminster. It takes pretty appalling stupidity to do that.
One weird thing about this is that Nunes is saying he's all upset that some of the intelligence reports had the names of US persons "unmasked." Since this is supposedly incidental collection from foreign intelligence targets, wouldn't the identity of the US persons involved be obvious based on context anyway? I mean, if a report says "Foreign Leader Smith spoke to US-PERSON-1 to congratulate him on his electoral victory," the minimization isn't exactly hiding anything, right?
And presumably Nunes has known all along that the US intercepts calls with foreign government officials of the sort that would be made by the transition. We, in fact, already know that such calls were intercepted, because we know about Flynn's calls with Kislyak. So for him to show up now and announce this like it's some kind of bombshell is appalling.
Dollars to donuts Trump takes the first part of this...this deplorable set of actions as "vindication" of his infamous wiretap tweet.
He's already done so: "I somewhat do. I must tell you I somewhat do. I very much appreciated the fact that they found what they found, I somewhat do,” Trump told reporters at the White House." Nunes, however, confirmed that he was not vindicating Trump; Obama isn't involved.
posted by zachlipton at 1:39 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
One weird thing about this is that Nunes is saying he's all upset that some of the intelligence reports had the names of US persons "unmasked." Since this is supposedly incidental collection from foreign intelligence targets, wouldn't the identity of the US persons involved be obvious based on context anyway? I mean, if a report says "Foreign Leader Smith spoke to US-PERSON-1 to congratulate him on his electoral victory," the minimization isn't exactly hiding anything, right?
And presumably Nunes has known all along that the US intercepts calls with foreign government officials of the sort that would be made by the transition. We, in fact, already know that such calls were intercepted, because we know about Flynn's calls with Kislyak. So for him to show up now and announce this like it's some kind of bombshell is appalling.
Dollars to donuts Trump takes the first part of this...this deplorable set of actions as "vindication" of his infamous wiretap tweet.
He's already done so: "I somewhat do. I must tell you I somewhat do. I very much appreciated the fact that they found what they found, I somewhat do,” Trump told reporters at the White House." Nunes, however, confirmed that he was not vindicating Trump; Obama isn't involved.
posted by zachlipton at 1:39 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Bouncing back to AHCA: Find Out Where Your Member Of Congress Stands, a simple tally of individual comments, tweets, etc., created by the WNYC Data News and NPR Visuals teams. 434 of 535 voting Congress members on the record as of 2:44 p.m. EDT, and if there's a gap, you can fill it via a Google Docs form. I wish there was a pie chart or anything else to quickly explain what the current tally means for the liklihood that the current bill will head to the senate, where they'll write their own bill and we get to start all over again trying to figure out how badly the GOP wants screw over the country, and in which ways.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:41 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by filthy light thief at 1:41 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'd also look at the NYT Whip Count, which has been updated consistently.
posted by zachlipton at 1:45 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:45 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Bill would prohibit discrimination based on climate change beliefs
A conservative state lawmaker is sponsoring a bill that would prohibit discrimination against a person based on their beliefs about climate change.posted by flatluigi at 1:47 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
The measure proposed by Rep. Larry Lockman, R-Amherst, also would prohibit the state’s attorney general from pursuing a prosecution against an individual based on the person’s climate change views.
The bill, “An Act To Protect Political Speech and Prevent Climate Change Policy Profiling,” was prompted by a lawsuit filed by a group of Democratic state attorneys general, including Janet Mills of Maine, against ExxonMobil in 2016.
Lockman said his measure, which has nine Republican co-sponsors, including Senate Majority Leader Garrett Mason, R-Lisbon, and Assistant Majority Leader Andre Cushing, R-Newport, is a response to the concerns of Jonathan Reisman, an associate professor at the University of Maine at Machias.
[...]
Rep. Lawrence Lockman, seen speaking at the University of Southern Maine in February, says anyone who is a skeptic about climate change "is immediately labeled a heretic who must be silenced."
Sure, police officers are a protected class now, why not climate change deniers? Might be simpler to criminalize all criticism of Republicans as hate speech so they can finally have their precious safe spaces.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:48 PM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:48 PM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
I fear that the United States as we have known it all our lives died on January 20th. What we are experiencing now are the birth pangs of whatever the United States is in the process of becoming.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:49 PM on March 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:49 PM on March 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
play us off keyboard cat, we're done.
posted by localhuman at 1:52 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 1:52 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
This Freedom Caucus dude at least is amusing on Twitter?
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:53 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:53 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Serious question: Is there even a procedure for removing an acting committee chair from their committee?
posted by tobascodagama at 1:54 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 1:54 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Kasie Hunt on Twitter: "NUNES tells me he can't show Dem ranking member Schiff any of the reports because Nunes/the committee doesn't have them in their possession"
Wait, what? If he doesn't have them then what the hell did he just rush to the cameras about?
posted by dnash at 1:55 PM on March 22, 2017 [24 favorites]
Wait, what? If he doesn't have them then what the hell did he just rush to the cameras about?
posted by dnash at 1:55 PM on March 22, 2017 [24 favorites]
So... is Nunes saying that he got a deep throat phonecall with a leak? Or...? Dafuq?
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:57 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:57 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Bill would prohibit discrimination based on climate change beliefs
Oh. I see. This is to protect poor, downtrodden ExxonMobile, who used their free "speech" (money) to offer their "opinion" (misinform) about climate change.
posted by kokaku at 1:57 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Oh. I see. This is to protect poor, downtrodden ExxonMobile, who used their free "speech" (money) to offer their "opinion" (misinform) about climate change.
posted by kokaku at 1:57 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
How on earth have the Dems failed to brand the Republican Party for all time as the party of no morals, no spine, no heart, no humanity?
posted by kokaku at 1:59 PM on March 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 1:59 PM on March 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
How on earth have the Dems failed to brand the Republican Party for all time as the party of no morals, no spine, no heart, no humanity?
Because at the same time Republicans have been branding Democrats as baby killers, immigrant lovers, and know-it-alls.
posted by Talez at 2:01 PM on March 22, 2017
Because at the same time Republicans have been branding Democrats as baby killers, immigrant lovers, and know-it-alls.
posted by Talez at 2:01 PM on March 22, 2017
How on earth have the Dems failed to brand the Republican Party for all time as the party of no morals, no spine, no heart, no humanity?
Mainly because the media is wedded to an idea of both-sides-ism, so it automatically ends up propagandizing for the side of no morals, no spine, no heart, and no humanity.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:02 PM on March 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
Mainly because the media is wedded to an idea of both-sides-ism, so it automatically ends up propagandizing for the side of no morals, no spine, no heart, and no humanity.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:02 PM on March 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
Trumpy Jr weighs in on today's events in London.
Donald Trump Jr. @DonaldJTrumpJr
You have to be kidding me?!: Terror attacks are part of living in big city, says London Mayor Sadiq Khan
And the Brits are quick to respond.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:02 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Donald Trump Jr. @DonaldJTrumpJr
You have to be kidding me?!: Terror attacks are part of living in big city, says London Mayor Sadiq Khan
And the Brits are quick to respond.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:02 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm sure he'll schedule a press conference next week to tell us all about how the profits will be handled. It's gonna make it great again. Or something.
posted by Dashy at 2:03 PM on March 22, 2017
posted by Dashy at 2:03 PM on March 22, 2017
Rep. Adam Schiff holds news conference.
posted by Donald Trump Sex Nightmare at 2:05 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Donald Trump Sex Nightmare at 2:05 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
The United States as we have known it all our lives died on January 20th.
Refuse to accept that. Until they kill you or put you in jail it lives on. Unless you give up. Failure and withdrawal is not an option except for the very privileged. Resist. Stand up. Banish fear and replace with rage. Take care of yourself and let yourself relax and even grieve for our illusions but most of us do not have the luxury of declaring the cause lost and leaving. Many of us have children we want to know freedom and opportunity and a better world.
If all you've got is "we are so fucked," well all I've got is get to the damn barricades and help unfuck us and try not to get discouraged or they will win.
You know who's so fucking fucked? That fucker in the fucking White House. Fuck him. Stand up, fight on!
How on earth have the Dems failed to brand the Republican Party for all time as the party of no morals, no spine, no heart, no humanity?
Because those qualities have a significant and powerful constituency. Fuck them too.
posted by spitbull at 2:08 PM on March 22, 2017 [76 favorites]
Refuse to accept that. Until they kill you or put you in jail it lives on. Unless you give up. Failure and withdrawal is not an option except for the very privileged. Resist. Stand up. Banish fear and replace with rage. Take care of yourself and let yourself relax and even grieve for our illusions but most of us do not have the luxury of declaring the cause lost and leaving. Many of us have children we want to know freedom and opportunity and a better world.
If all you've got is "we are so fucked," well all I've got is get to the damn barricades and help unfuck us and try not to get discouraged or they will win.
You know who's so fucking fucked? That fucker in the fucking White House. Fuck him. Stand up, fight on!
How on earth have the Dems failed to brand the Republican Party for all time as the party of no morals, no spine, no heart, no humanity?
Because those qualities have a significant and powerful constituency. Fuck them too.
posted by spitbull at 2:08 PM on March 22, 2017 [76 favorites]
An independent counsel is what's needed now.
PAGING PREET BHARARA. PAGING PREET BHARARA. Please pick up the RED courtesy phone.
PAGING PREET BHARARA....
posted by mikelieman at 2:11 PM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
PAGING PREET BHARARA. PAGING PREET BHARARA. Please pick up the RED courtesy phone.
PAGING PREET BHARARA....
posted by mikelieman at 2:11 PM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
And as my Native American colleagues and friends say, the United States as privileged people have known it never really existed for too many others. We were and are still trying to bring that into being.
posted by spitbull at 2:12 PM on March 22, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 2:12 PM on March 22, 2017 [28 favorites]
Wowee, in one day, Devin Nunes gets promoted from Daddy's Good Little Soldier to Daddy's Bestest, Goodest Little Soldier Who Could.
Meanwhile, I'm starting an Adam Schiff fanclub. He is fucking pissed and is saying one after another decimating thing about Nunes in the calmest, fairest, most rational thorough tone ever. Go get 'im, Adam.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:13 PM on March 22, 2017 [22 favorites]
Meanwhile, I'm starting an Adam Schiff fanclub. He is fucking pissed and is saying one after another decimating thing about Nunes in the calmest, fairest, most rational thorough tone ever. Go get 'im, Adam.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:13 PM on March 22, 2017 [22 favorites]
Here is a portrait of the Donald made entirely of pig entrails with a pig anus for a mouth.
Facebook post. Does what it says on the tin. You don't want to click on this. It's gross. But, yet, captures a certain essence of, well something. Don't say I didn't warn you though.
posted by Cookiebastard at 2:13 PM on March 22, 2017 [30 favorites]
Facebook post. Does what it says on the tin. You don't want to click on this. It's gross. But, yet, captures a certain essence of, well something. Don't say I didn't warn you though.
posted by Cookiebastard at 2:13 PM on March 22, 2017 [30 favorites]
That picture is art. How one becomes skilled in this particular medium, i don't really want to know... but.. it's art.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 2:26 PM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 2:26 PM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
A few years ago I considered and then decided against an FPP about a German artist who works in ear wax.
posted by spitbull at 2:28 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 2:28 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Following the Twitter reporting on this Nunes presser, it sounds like legal FISA foreign surveillance caught a bunch of communications with the Trump transition, including potentially PEOTUS.
What I love is Nunes acting surprised about this. We all have known since the Flynn firing that his calls with Kislyak were surely picked up as part of the surveillance of Kislyak, so why is anyone surprised that some Trumpfolk were incidentally included as part of the investigative surveillance of Russian actors known or suspected to be part of the hacking situation?
Of course, the question Nunes is studiously NOT asking at all is why the hell Trump people were chatting with those targets of investigation during the transition, especially since he keeps denying any contact.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:28 PM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
What I love is Nunes acting surprised about this. We all have known since the Flynn firing that his calls with Kislyak were surely picked up as part of the surveillance of Kislyak, so why is anyone surprised that some Trumpfolk were incidentally included as part of the investigative surveillance of Russian actors known or suspected to be part of the hacking situation?
Of course, the question Nunes is studiously NOT asking at all is why the hell Trump people were chatting with those targets of investigation during the transition, especially since he keeps denying any contact.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:28 PM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
This Nunes fuckery has all the same shades as the October surprise courtesy Comey. It gives the barest figleaf to the fascist press to pretend that trump's paranoid delusions were ever anything but. It's intelligence work for the benefit of a press release.
That picture is art. How one becomes skilled in this particular medium, i don't really want to know... but.. it's art.
A charitable explanation would be to have worked as a production designer on Hannibal.
posted by codacorolla at 2:29 PM on March 22, 2017
That picture is art. How one becomes skilled in this particular medium, i don't really want to know... but.. it's art.
A charitable explanation would be to have worked as a production designer on Hannibal.
posted by codacorolla at 2:29 PM on March 22, 2017
Some highlights from the Shiff statement and Q&A for those who couldn't watch:
- Finds Nunes actions "beyond irregular"
- Does not know source of Nunes intel
- Nunes intel was not shared with other committee members, including Republicans. Still haven't seen it.
- Names of US Persons were masked but were recognizable to Nunes from "context"
- Made call for Independent Commission
- "Chairman will need to decide if he is chairman of investigation or surrogate of the white house because he cannot do both."
But as always part of the problem with this whole sitation... just go to Twitter and sample what the Trump supporters are like. Somehow Schiff is the "crybaby who didn't get his way." They don't understand what Nunes actually said/did - they're retweeting it as "proof Obama broke the law." Ugh. If/when the Russia investigations turn into any actual charges or trials, there will be such ugliness everywhere as almost half the country refuses to accept reality.
posted by dnash at 2:32 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by dnash at 2:32 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
America as a democracy is dead. I'm somewhat bemused at those pretending otherwise. What more evidence do you need?
posted by Yowser at 2:34 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 2:34 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's not just a novelty, like the virgin Mary in burnt toast or dryer lint, it's actually an excellent likeness and the subtle shades and shapes are mesmerizing. Then there's the glistening. That thing should be the official portrait, but alas, the medium is ephemeral.
posted by Don Pepino at 2:34 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Don Pepino at 2:34 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
What you call "pretending otherwise" is what some of us call "the struggle." America as a democracy has never really existed for too many people. Now that includes some of the formerly privileged too.
posted by spitbull at 2:36 PM on March 22, 2017 [48 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 2:36 PM on March 22, 2017 [48 favorites]
The pig picture is terribly disrespectful to the pig.
posted by yoga at 2:37 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by yoga at 2:37 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
America as a democracy is dead. I'm somewhat bemused at those pretending otherwise. What more evidence do you need?
To use an analogy I'm sure Director Comey would hate: Just because we're down 28-3 right now is no reason to assume the US isn't fully capable of making a comeback.
posted by Freon at 2:37 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
To use an analogy I'm sure Director Comey would hate: Just because we're down 28-3 right now is no reason to assume the US isn't fully capable of making a comeback.
posted by Freon at 2:37 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
I know casual cynicism is appreciated by some, but I'm not into that. We fight on because we have to. "What? You didn't expect this?" isn't particularly helpful.
posted by downtohisturtles at 2:37 PM on March 22, 2017 [58 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 2:37 PM on March 22, 2017 [58 favorites]
just go to Twitter and sample what the Trump supporters are like
Many of the "Trump supporters" are basically paid trolls who are taking time out for their (likely doomed) LePen boosting to help Trump. Or so I've noticed. Lots of vaguely French-sounding handles and American flags lately.
posted by asteria at 2:38 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Many of the "Trump supporters" are basically paid trolls who are taking time out for their (likely doomed) LePen boosting to help Trump. Or so I've noticed. Lots of vaguely French-sounding handles and American flags lately.
posted by asteria at 2:38 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
there were lots of people on the "democracy is dead, your vote doesn't matter" train prior to last November and boy howdy aren't we all the better for their self-congratulatory cynicism
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:39 PM on March 22, 2017 [69 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:39 PM on March 22, 2017 [69 favorites]
Joe Manchin: "Knowing the Chairman I can comfortably say this would never have happened in the Senate."
posted by leotrotsky at 2:39 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 2:39 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Important Reminder:
“There is no final victory, as there is no final defeat. There is just the same battle. To be fought, over and over again. So toughen up, bloody toughen up.” Tony Benn, Labour politician
posted by asteria at 2:40 PM on March 22, 2017 [40 favorites]
“There is no final victory, as there is no final defeat. There is just the same battle. To be fought, over and over again. So toughen up, bloody toughen up.” Tony Benn, Labour politician
posted by asteria at 2:40 PM on March 22, 2017 [40 favorites]
We fight on because we have to
This. If you want to declare the fight lost I assume you have a plan B?
Let's not romanticize American history. We have been in deeper shit before for all kinds of values of "we." Ask any Native American or African American about a those good old days.
posted by spitbull at 2:41 PM on March 22, 2017 [19 favorites]
This. If you want to declare the fight lost I assume you have a plan B?
Let's not romanticize American history. We have been in deeper shit before for all kinds of values of "we." Ask any Native American or African American about a those good old days.
posted by spitbull at 2:41 PM on March 22, 2017 [19 favorites]
Jesus, how much of the Comey hearing yesterday was spent with Republicans screaming about leaks to the press, making classified or sensitive info public, anonymously sourced bombshells, etc.?
And what did Nunes just do?
Also, Schiff just clarified on MSNBC that if two foreign nationals were having a conversation and mentioned Trump's name or the name of one of his people, that's incidental collection and the names would be masked. So that might be all this was.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:45 PM on March 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
And what did Nunes just do?
Also, Schiff just clarified on MSNBC that if two foreign nationals were having a conversation and mentioned Trump's name or the name of one of his people, that's incidental collection and the names would be masked. So that might be all this was.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:45 PM on March 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
"I'm somewhat bemused at those pretending otherwise. What more evidence do you need?"
I have evidence of a large, active, vocal population, that has seen all pretense stripped away and is anything but bemused.
posted by klarck at 2:45 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
I have evidence of a large, active, vocal population, that has seen all pretense stripped away and is anything but bemused.
posted by klarck at 2:45 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Matt Taibbi: Trump the Destroyer: Trump has stuffed his Cabinet with tyrants, zealots and imbeciles – all bent on demolishing our government from within
posted by homunculus at 2:45 PM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 2:45 PM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Nunes is kicking up a stink to distract from the "smell of treason in the air". He's giving deliberately vague answers to different media outlets as to the source and content of his briefings with Trump. The important part is to make sure variations on the phrase "Trump Tower was under surveilience during the Obama administration" in headlines and chyrons. Not telling the Democrats on the committee is part of that, too. They insured that Shiff would have to talk to the press about it, and repeat some variation of those words to cameras and reporters. If they can dominate the news cycle for 24 hours or so, they think they can give the House cover to vote for ACA repeal, and take the intel committee heat off Trump for a while. Ultimately, they hope to confuse the issue enough to stop the bleeding with their base and turn the inquiry into Trump's treason into a Benghazi style witch hunt against the former administration.
posted by vibrotronica at 2:46 PM on March 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by vibrotronica at 2:46 PM on March 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
there were lots of people on the "democracy is dead, your vote doesn't matter" train prior to last November and boy howdy aren't we all the better for their self-congratulatory cynicism
To be fair, they were likely smugly not voting for Jill Stein, as opposed to smugly not voting for Hillary.
posted by leotrotsky at 2:46 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
To be fair, they were likely smugly not voting for Jill Stein, as opposed to smugly not voting for Hillary.
posted by leotrotsky at 2:46 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Other new info from Schiff about the larger investigation: there is non-circumstantial evidence suggestive of collusion/coordination he has seen that needs to be looked into. That's all he'll say.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:48 PM on March 22, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:48 PM on March 22, 2017 [27 favorites]
Sooooo.... Adam Schiff. This is the first time I've seen/heard him speak. Any 2018 potential here?
posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:48 PM on March 22, 2017
posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:48 PM on March 22, 2017
Ah, replacing the smell of treason with the perfume of bullshit.
posted by spitbull at 2:49 PM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 2:49 PM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Here is what I try to bear in mind: we have had presidents who were in favor of open, widespread chattel slavery. We have had presidents who were vocally indifferent to widespread lynching. And before we do that whole "but the police, but the prisons, don't you know that the present is just as bad as the past" - back in those days the police and prisons were also terrible and brutal, and the slavery, sweatshops and imprisonment of dissidents were on top of that. We've had presidents who supported the direct exterminations of Native people by the military.
What's happening now isn't unprecedented, and it isn't the end of the American project. History is long. Tyrants fall. These people have not installed a thousand year reich, however much they would like to.
And again, throughout the Americas people have endured the terrible regimes foisted on them by the United States and its collaborators. Some of the most heroic people of the 20th century were the people who resisted those regimes - from Archbishop Romero to Victor Jara to the many less famous.
US people and others have fought against tyrannical regimes on these continents. They endured terrible things but they didn't give up or go silent.
The Republicans' day will come and their fall will be a hard one. If you were an American in 1900, you wouldn't have believed in the events of the thirties, forties, fifties and sixties - the struggles for racial, gender and labor justice that were fought and won during those times. You might recognize 2017 and regret that things had come to this, but that doesn't invalidate the victories of the past.
We may not be able to be permanently victorious, but these people, they will fall - it may take time, but they're not immortal tyrants. Trump is old and he may not live to see it, but many of the Republicans in power today will be alive to witness our victories, when we undo everything they've built and take their power away.
posted by Frowner at 2:50 PM on March 22, 2017 [150 favorites]
What's happening now isn't unprecedented, and it isn't the end of the American project. History is long. Tyrants fall. These people have not installed a thousand year reich, however much they would like to.
And again, throughout the Americas people have endured the terrible regimes foisted on them by the United States and its collaborators. Some of the most heroic people of the 20th century were the people who resisted those regimes - from Archbishop Romero to Victor Jara to the many less famous.
US people and others have fought against tyrannical regimes on these continents. They endured terrible things but they didn't give up or go silent.
The Republicans' day will come and their fall will be a hard one. If you were an American in 1900, you wouldn't have believed in the events of the thirties, forties, fifties and sixties - the struggles for racial, gender and labor justice that were fought and won during those times. You might recognize 2017 and regret that things had come to this, but that doesn't invalidate the victories of the past.
We may not be able to be permanently victorious, but these people, they will fall - it may take time, but they're not immortal tyrants. Trump is old and he may not live to see it, but many of the Republicans in power today will be alive to witness our victories, when we undo everything they've built and take their power away.
posted by Frowner at 2:50 PM on March 22, 2017 [150 favorites]
First, let me thank spitbull for not sharing that FPP. second, if I had bought a house 3 blocks from where I live, I would have the honor of living in Schiff's district, but alas, I live in smarmy Brad Sherman's. Go Adam, go!
posted by Sophie1 at 2:51 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Sophie1 at 2:51 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sooooo.... Adam Schiff. This is the first time I've seen/heard him speak. Any 2018 potential here?
He was a pretty good District Attorney.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 2:57 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
He was a pretty good District Attorney.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 2:57 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Schiff is my Rep!
posted by Justinian at 3:00 PM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 3:00 PM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
I hate to dump a single tweet/video, but I think (hope?) it might be forgivable based on scale:
Schiff (on MSNBC): “there is more than circumstantial evidence now…there is evidence that is not circumstantial”
posted by Freon at 3:06 PM on March 22, 2017 [38 favorites]
Schiff (on MSNBC): “there is more than circumstantial evidence now…there is evidence that is not circumstantial”
posted by Freon at 3:06 PM on March 22, 2017 [38 favorites]
I would bet SO much that the info Nunes just revealed came from the New York FBI office. Trying to make Comey look bad.
Along with that Daily Beast Article I linked earlier about Giuliani's connections to that office, and his hints that they may have forced Comey to send That Letter with the threat of leaks, and Trump's own history with that office, there's another story I from before the election which makes it sound sketchy...
And just published today: Muslims inside FBI describe culture of suspicion and fear: 'It is cancer'
Along with that Daily Beast Article I linked earlier about Giuliani's connections to that office, and his hints that they may have forced Comey to send That Letter with the threat of leaks, and Trump's own history with that office, there's another story I from before the election which makes it sound sketchy...
Current and former FBI officials, none of whom were willing or cleared to speak on the record, have described a chaotic internal climate that resulted from outrage over director James Comey’s July decision not to recommend an indictment over Clinton’s maintenance of a private email server on which classified information transited.(Gee, are the Republicans investigating the leaks about investigations of Clinton mentioned in that article, do you think? Are they outraged by those leaks?)
"The FBI is Trumpland" said one current agent. This atmosphere raises major questions about how Comey and the bureau he is slated to run for the next seven years can work with Clinton should she win the White House.
The currently serving FBI agent said Clinton is “the antichrist personified to a large swath of FBI personnel,” and that “the reason why they’re leaking is they’re pro-Trump.”
And just published today: Muslims inside FBI describe culture of suspicion and fear: 'It is cancer'
Comey has publicly described the bureau’s overwhelming whiteness as a problem for the bureau. But in a communication acquired by the Guardian, the director nevertheless signaled that he sees merit in keeping foreign-born FBI officials under continuous scrutiny.posted by OnceUponATime at 3:08 PM on March 22, 2017 [27 favorites]
So far this administration has proven a bit too incompetent to achieve any solid evil, even though they are really trying. I believe we should do our utmost to keep the pressure on every single day, so that they never get their feet firmly under them and figure it all out; so that they always seem just on the brink of falling apart in order to discourage people who might actually be adept at evil to join them.
We just need one solid backbone from the republican side to break ranks over something and maybe the flood gates will open. If there's a new something each day then that something might finally be the thing. That's my hope.
The chaos just seems unsustainable, so the more there is the more likely it will wear the republicans down.
Don't give up.
posted by OHenryPacey at 3:12 PM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
We just need one solid backbone from the republican side to break ranks over something and maybe the flood gates will open. If there's a new something each day then that something might finally be the thing. That's my hope.
The chaos just seems unsustainable, so the more there is the more likely it will wear the republicans down.
Don't give up.
posted by OHenryPacey at 3:12 PM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
I just want to live in this happy place forever: Diamond Joe Biden Meets (and loves) Golden Joe Biden.
posted by TwoStride at 3:12 PM on March 22, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 3:12 PM on March 22, 2017 [40 favorites]
One suspects that if they could get language limiting AHCA benefits to only white lower class families they'd be cool with it though.
That's not how it works in the South. Affluent and middle class white Southerners have more contempt for poor whites than any other group because they represent a challenge to their examined and unexamined beliefs about white supremacy. Twain wrote about the phenomena even in his time, and in my experience, it's still true, even among many otherwise progressive and more liberal whites.
posted by saulgoodman at 3:15 PM on March 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
That's not how it works in the South. Affluent and middle class white Southerners have more contempt for poor whites than any other group because they represent a challenge to their examined and unexamined beliefs about white supremacy. Twain wrote about the phenomena even in his time, and in my experience, it's still true, even among many otherwise progressive and more liberal whites.
posted by saulgoodman at 3:15 PM on March 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
It's a combination of privilege and an echo of that musty old white supremacist bogeyman of race treason, I think. Either way, nobody is socially more universally deplored among wealthier Southern whites than "white trash," in my experience. I knew a lot of desperately poor white kids growing up who were targeted for stigmatization and institutional abuse. I have concrete examples, but I don't want to derail any further, so memail me if you're curious.
posted by saulgoodman at 3:34 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by saulgoodman at 3:34 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
Has someone pointed out that if Trump was speaking to someone under investigation then Nines just warned the person and may have tanked the investigation? Such a person would know they could possibly be a target of investigators.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:51 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:51 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Schiff is my Rep!
Yeah, mine too. I've been basically happy with him in the past, but he's really stepped up since the election.
posted by thefoxgod at 3:53 PM on March 22, 2017
Yeah, mine too. I've been basically happy with him in the past, but he's really stepped up since the election.
posted by thefoxgod at 3:53 PM on March 22, 2017
God at this point I wouldn't trust Nunes to investigate the contents of an open-faced sandwich.
I'm so excited by the idea of impeachment that I may need to stop on the way home to buy popcorn.
Is it possible this fracas could undermine Gorsuch's appointment to the Supremes?
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 4:00 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm so excited by the idea of impeachment that I may need to stop on the way home to buy popcorn.
Is it possible this fracas could undermine Gorsuch's appointment to the Supremes?
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 4:00 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
In my fantasy world, taking down Trump would turn up enough dirt that it'd trigger an investigation into every last member of his staff, cabinet and nominees for related crimes.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 4:03 PM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by C'est la D.C. at 4:03 PM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
It's more that there is that dirt... and it doesn't do that.
posted by Artw at 4:07 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:07 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Names of US Persons were masked but were recognizable to Nunes from "context"
Wait a minute. So my random guess upthread was right? Nunes' complaint about minimization procedures comes down to the fact that it's impossible to actually obscure the identity of the President-elect in an intelligence report? That's absurd.
I can't fathom what Nunes is doing here. He's revealing information about intelligence collection and hoping that nobody will notice that it doesn't remotely vindicate Trump's tweets about the "tapp." More disingenuously, he's breathlessly announcing things that were already known (the US spies on foreign officials, conversations with those foreign officials will therefore be spied on, people in the Trump transition had conversations with foreign officials who were of obvious interest to US intelligence), deliberating spreading confusion. He's completely blown up his credibility and made it abundantly clear that this whole matter needs to be turned over to a special prosecutor or an independent commission.
So the question is why? Either he's so stupid he didn't understand the inevitable reaction to what he was saying, or he knew what he was doing and wanted to blow up his committee's investigation on purpose. Does he (and perhaps Ryan) really want this wiretapping dreck out of his committee before it comes back to bite them? It's an intriguing possibility.
In other disturbing news, Meadows now says they're working on a deal and "if they work all night they may find a compromise to pass AHCA." They really might actually pass this thing.
posted by zachlipton at 4:14 PM on March 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
Wait a minute. So my random guess upthread was right? Nunes' complaint about minimization procedures comes down to the fact that it's impossible to actually obscure the identity of the President-elect in an intelligence report? That's absurd.
I can't fathom what Nunes is doing here. He's revealing information about intelligence collection and hoping that nobody will notice that it doesn't remotely vindicate Trump's tweets about the "tapp." More disingenuously, he's breathlessly announcing things that were already known (the US spies on foreign officials, conversations with those foreign officials will therefore be spied on, people in the Trump transition had conversations with foreign officials who were of obvious interest to US intelligence), deliberating spreading confusion. He's completely blown up his credibility and made it abundantly clear that this whole matter needs to be turned over to a special prosecutor or an independent commission.
So the question is why? Either he's so stupid he didn't understand the inevitable reaction to what he was saying, or he knew what he was doing and wanted to blow up his committee's investigation on purpose. Does he (and perhaps Ryan) really want this wiretapping dreck out of his committee before it comes back to bite them? It's an intriguing possibility.
In other disturbing news, Meadows now says they're working on a deal and "if they work all night they may find a compromise to pass AHCA." They really might actually pass this thing.
posted by zachlipton at 4:14 PM on March 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
Kansas Republicans Are Finally Embracing Obamacare—Just as Trump Is Trying to Kill It
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:26 PM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:26 PM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
It sounds to me as if Nunes is effectively the one who unmasked the names. I mean, it's inevitable that names will be occasionally be recognised from their context, but not everybody has the context, and the ones who do can pretend that they don't realise who they're talking about. Nunes has just torn the fig leaf off the statue.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:28 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:28 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Sooooo.... Adam Schiff. This is the first time I've seen/heard him speak. Any 2018 potential here?
The more Democrats primarying Feinstein, the better.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:28 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
The more Democrats primarying Feinstein, the better.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:28 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
So the question is why? Either he's so stupid he didn't understand the inevitable reaction to what he was saying, or he knew what he was doing and wanted to blow up his committee's investigation on purpose. Does he (and perhaps Ryan) really want this wiretapping dreck out of his committee before it comes back to bite them? It's an intriguing possibility.
Well, trashing the House Intelligence investigation slows down the process considerably since it'd take a while for whoever takes over to get up to speed. It gets it out of Ryan and/or McConnell's laps and buys them time to get some of their shit done. While also giving the Obama Conspiracy Trumpies and their president grist for the crazymill.
The downside is that creating these reckless delays and obstructions might well motivate the many leakers to stop drip-drip-dripping and open up the fucking faucet. Oh well, you play, you pay.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:30 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Well, trashing the House Intelligence investigation slows down the process considerably since it'd take a while for whoever takes over to get up to speed. It gets it out of Ryan and/or McConnell's laps and buys them time to get some of their shit done. While also giving the Obama Conspiracy Trumpies and their president grist for the crazymill.
The downside is that creating these reckless delays and obstructions might well motivate the many leakers to stop drip-drip-dripping and open up the fucking faucet. Oh well, you play, you pay.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:30 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Uhhh, talk about buying the lede. Graydon Carter, Trump's longtime Vanity Fair nemesis, writes a column The Trump Presidency is Already a Joke. He sticks this in his second paragraph:
posted by zachlipton at 4:32 PM on March 22, 2017 [43 favorites]
Watching TV commentators applaud him for containing himself for a little over an hour was like hearing a parent praise a difficult child for not pooping in his pants during a pre-school interview. Besides, vintage Trump is not going anywhere anytime soon. A couple of weeks earlier, during a visit by the Japanese prime minister, Shinzō Abe, the president told an acquaintance that he was obsessed with the translator’s breasts—although he expressed this in his own, fragrant fashion.What the what now?
posted by zachlipton at 4:32 PM on March 22, 2017 [43 favorites]
In other disturbing news, Meadows now says they're working on a deal and "if they work all night they may find a compromise to pass AHCA." They really might actually pass this thing.
It's possible they may find a way to make the bill terrible enough to pass the House. It's always been the Senate where it will have the biggest problem.
posted by Justinian at 4:34 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's possible they may find a way to make the bill terrible enough to pass the House. It's always been the Senate where it will have the biggest problem.
posted by Justinian at 4:34 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
That's not how it works in the South. Affluent and middle class white Southerners have more contempt for poor whites
A subject I am well schooled about and not really a critique of my point. Poor whites are the voters the GOP needs and who they stand to lose by defenestrating Medicaid.
posted by spitbull at 4:34 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
A subject I am well schooled about and not really a critique of my point. Poor whites are the voters the GOP needs and who they stand to lose by defenestrating Medicaid.
posted by spitbull at 4:34 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Uhhh, talk about buying the lede. Graydon Carter, Trump's longtime Vanity Fair nemesis, writes a column The Trump Presidency is Already a Joke.
Sean Spicer, the M. C. Escher of the English language,
dying
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:37 PM on March 22, 2017 [44 favorites]
Sean Spicer, the M. C. Escher of the English language,
dying
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:37 PM on March 22, 2017 [44 favorites]
All righty, even in the midst of today's ridiculousness, I fed the Tamagotchi. Come tomorrow we'll see if that helped in the battle over the AHCA.
posted by sgranade at 4:38 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by sgranade at 4:38 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
In other words the rich whites represented by congress indeed would need to get over their distaste for poor whites as actual voting people. And that they are willing to screw over their poorer blood and soil Real American brethren over this is a limit to their power Bernie in particular has been trying to exploit.
posted by spitbull at 4:39 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 4:39 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah the plan seems to be that they are so desperate to pass anything that their negotiation seems to be "we'll give you whatever you want to anybody wavering" so they can drop a flaming pile of dogshit on McConnell's desk and run away. They've long since stopped caring about what's actually in the bill or it's impact on people's lives or health, to the extent they ever cared, in favor of simply trying to pass something, somehow, so they can say they did.
posted by zachlipton at 4:41 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 4:41 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
they may find a way to make the bill terrible enough to pass the House.
As I said, let the poor whites back into the alms house, perhaps by copying the New York provision and allowing Medicaid subsidies only in rural counties or some other code.
posted by spitbull at 4:42 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
As I said, let the poor whites back into the alms house, perhaps by copying the New York provision and allowing Medicaid subsidies only in rural counties or some other code.
posted by spitbull at 4:42 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
They really might actually pass this thing.
As ye sow, so shall ye reap. Isn't that in the Bible somewhere? Ah, yes:
Galatians, 6:7. Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
If those Christians bothered to read their Bibles, they might pause before causing misery to millions of their supporters.
But they don't, and they won't, and people will suffer and die, and for that I am deeply saddened, but when the bill comes due I will be beside myself when they go down.
posted by Devonian at 4:43 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
As ye sow, so shall ye reap. Isn't that in the Bible somewhere? Ah, yes:
Galatians, 6:7. Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
If those Christians bothered to read their Bibles, they might pause before causing misery to millions of their supporters.
But they don't, and they won't, and people will suffer and die, and for that I am deeply saddened, but when the bill comes due I will be beside myself when they go down.
posted by Devonian at 4:43 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Interesting speculation from Nate Silver here. What if they're about to intentionally shove a bill through the House that can't be passed in the Senate through reconsideration, so they can blame the Democrats (and the Senate Parliamentarian) for filibustering it?
This would be giving up any pretense of actually legislating, but it would allow them to accomplish two goals: pass something so Trump doesn't attack them on Twitter; and blame Democrats for anything related to healthcare in this country as the Trump team continues to sabotage the ACA through the executive agencies, to the extent that it will forever be Schumer's fault if one of their kids so much as gets the sniffles.
posted by zachlipton at 4:47 PM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
This would be giving up any pretense of actually legislating, but it would allow them to accomplish two goals: pass something so Trump doesn't attack them on Twitter; and blame Democrats for anything related to healthcare in this country as the Trump team continues to sabotage the ACA through the executive agencies, to the extent that it will forever be Schumer's fault if one of their kids so much as gets the sniffles.
posted by zachlipton at 4:47 PM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
They know people have seen the garbage, right?
Also I can't see Trump not owning Trumpcare, even if Trumpcare is just degraded service on the existing thing.
posted by Artw at 4:52 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also I can't see Trump not owning Trumpcare, even if Trumpcare is just degraded service on the existing thing.
posted by Artw at 4:52 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
so they can blame the Democrats (and the Senate Parliamentarian) for filibustering it?
Good? Trumpcare is massively unpopular. If they want to cast the Democrats as efficacious dragon slayers, I WILL TAKE IT.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:56 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Good? Trumpcare is massively unpopular. If they want to cast the Democrats as efficacious dragon slayers, I WILL TAKE IT.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:56 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Breaking news push alert from CNN:
US Officials: Info suggests Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians
US Officials: Info suggests Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians
The FBI has information that indicates associates of President Donald Trump communicated with suspected Russian operatives to possibly coordinate the release of information damaging to Hillary Clinton's campaign, US officials told CNN.posted by chris24 at 5:05 PM on March 22, 2017 [76 favorites]
This is partly what FBI Director James Comey was referring to when he made a bombshell announcement Monday before Congress that the FBI is investigating the Trump campaign's ties to Russia, according to one source.
The FBI is now reviewing that information, which includes human intelligence, travel, business and phone records and accounts of in-person meetings, according to those U.S. officials. The information is raising the suspicions of FBI counterintelligence investigators that the coordination may have taken place, though officials cautioned that the information was not conclusive and that the investigation is ongoing.
McCain Calls for Special Committee on Russia: Congress Doesn’t Have ‘Credibility to Handle This Alone’
I have zero respect for McCain any more, but where he goes so goes Graham and maybe a few more.
posted by jammer at 5:07 PM on March 22, 2017 [57 favorites]
I have zero respect for McCain any more, but where he goes so goes Graham and maybe a few more.
posted by jammer at 5:07 PM on March 22, 2017 [57 favorites]
Sebastian Gorka backtracks on anti-Semitic group link: “I never swore allegiance formally”
“I have never been a member of the Vitezi Rend. I have never taken an oath of loyalty to the Vitezi Rend. Since childhood, I have occasionally worn my father’s medal and used the ‘v’ initial to honor his struggle against totalitarianism,” Gorka told Tablet Magazine on Thursday.
posted by futz at 5:09 PM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
“I have never been a member of the Vitezi Rend. I have never taken an oath of loyalty to the Vitezi Rend. Since childhood, I have occasionally worn my father’s medal and used the ‘v’ initial to honor his struggle against totalitarianism,” Gorka told Tablet Magazine on Thursday.
posted by futz at 5:09 PM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
The McCain respect level goes way, way up should he actually fucking do something. I'm not going to just assume he will though, based on past performance.
posted by Artw at 5:10 PM on March 22, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:10 PM on March 22, 2017 [22 favorites]
This would be giving up any pretense of actually legislating, but it would allow them to accomplish two goals: pass something so Trump doesn't attack them on Twitter; and blame Democrats for anything related to healthcare in this country as the Trump team continues to sabotage the ACA through the executive agencies, to the extent that it will forever be Schumer's fault if one of their kids so much as gets the sniffles.
Yeah, my fear is that they will try this (I don't know that they're intentionally throwing the vote, but if they lose they probably will do this), and that it'll work because rabid base + both-sides-ist media.
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:11 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, my fear is that they will try this (I don't know that they're intentionally throwing the vote, but if they lose they probably will do this), and that it'll work because rabid base + both-sides-ist media.
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:11 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
That CNN report certainly sounds like it could be describing Roger Stone talking with Guccifer 2.0. I'm highly curious if that's what they've got or if it's something else.
It fits nicely with Schiff's statement earlier that the evidence is more than circumstantial.
posted by zachlipton at 5:11 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
It fits nicely with Schiff's statement earlier that the evidence is more than circumstantial.
posted by zachlipton at 5:11 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Oh, not a formal Nazi. That's alright then. Perfectly normal Trump cabinet material.
posted by Artw at 5:12 PM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:12 PM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
OMFUCKINGGOD
Democrats weigh deal to let Gorsuch through
Now is the time to go nuclear on the phones. NO on AHCA. NO on Gorsuch, there shouldn't even be hearings! Everything should come to a screaming halt until an independent council has been appointed to investigate Trump's Russia ties and whether there was collusion between his campaign and Putin. Sessions perjured himself and needs to be out. Ring every congressperson who represents you. Ring Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. Ring Tom Perez and Keith Ellison. Tell them to hold the fucking line.
Jesus effing Christ, Democrats. Why are your soldiers fighting in the trenches if you're just going to lay down?
posted by supercrayon at 5:12 PM on March 22, 2017 [84 favorites]
Democrats weigh deal to let Gorsuch through
Now is the time to go nuclear on the phones. NO on AHCA. NO on Gorsuch, there shouldn't even be hearings! Everything should come to a screaming halt until an independent council has been appointed to investigate Trump's Russia ties and whether there was collusion between his campaign and Putin. Sessions perjured himself and needs to be out. Ring every congressperson who represents you. Ring Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. Ring Tom Perez and Keith Ellison. Tell them to hold the fucking line.
Jesus effing Christ, Democrats. Why are your soldiers fighting in the trenches if you're just going to lay down?
posted by supercrayon at 5:12 PM on March 22, 2017 [84 favorites]
US Officials: Info suggests Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians
It's also interesting that as soon as Nunes goes rogue to try to give Trump a supposed but shortsighted lifeline on the tapp, this leaks to hurt Trump even worse.
posted by chris24 at 5:12 PM on March 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
It's also interesting that as soon as Nunes goes rogue to try to give Trump a supposed but shortsighted lifeline on the tapp, this leaks to hurt Trump even worse.
posted by chris24 at 5:12 PM on March 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
The McCain respect level goes way, way up should he actually fucking do something
Well, he is a maverick, you know.
posted by thelonius at 5:12 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, he is a maverick, you know.
posted by thelonius at 5:12 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh, not a formal Nazi. That's alright then. Perfectly normal Trump cabinet material.
#NotAllNazis
posted by chris24 at 5:13 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
#NotAllNazis
posted by chris24 at 5:13 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Gorsuch. AHCA. North Korea. Russia. Things are getting worse and worse, faster and faster. It's like we are approaching the singularity of insanity.
posted by Glibpaxman at 5:14 PM on March 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Glibpaxman at 5:14 PM on March 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
Gah. It's only a "deal" if you actually get something, which from lying bastard Republicans you most assuredly will not.
posted by Artw at 5:17 PM on March 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:17 PM on March 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
Shots fucking fired. The Koch brothers are promising a 7-figure fund to back Republicans who vote against the AHCA.
I swear, the fact that people in squirrel costumes are being dispatched to the Capitol tomorrow is truly the most normal thing about this process.
posted by zachlipton at 5:18 PM on March 22, 2017 [78 favorites]
I swear, the fact that people in squirrel costumes are being dispatched to the Capitol tomorrow is truly the most normal thing about this process.
posted by zachlipton at 5:18 PM on March 22, 2017 [78 favorites]
Of course, only after the oath,” György Kerekes, a current member of the Vitézi Rend, told The Forward when asked if anyone may use the initial “v.” without going through the Vitézi Rend’s application process and an elaborate swearing-in ceremony.
posted by adamvasco at 5:20 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by adamvasco at 5:20 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Just another item for the increasingly bulging Sentences I Never Expected to Say file:
Thanks, Koch brothers.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:20 PM on March 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
Thanks, Koch brothers.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:20 PM on March 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
The new Republican motto: Veni, Divisi, Vici
posted by Talez at 5:26 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Talez at 5:26 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
The McCain respect level goes way, way up should he actually fucking do something. I'm not going to just assume he will though, based on past performance.
Right, calling up a special prosecutor would be an actual maverick move.
Only... Maybe I've missed something, but it looks like the independent counsel's office was moved to the DOJ in 1999, when the law allowing Congress to appoint special prosecutors expired. So, the only person with authority to order an investigation by a special prosecutor is the Attorney General.
Sessions' recusal complicates the chain of command on this issue. I'm not sure whether that power devolves onto Boente for investigations specifically into Trump-Russia or not, but it seems unlikely that Boente will do it if there's any question about whether he actually has that authority.
posted by tobascodagama at 5:28 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Right, calling up a special prosecutor would be an actual maverick move.
Only... Maybe I've missed something, but it looks like the independent counsel's office was moved to the DOJ in 1999, when the law allowing Congress to appoint special prosecutors expired. So, the only person with authority to order an investigation by a special prosecutor is the Attorney General.
Sessions' recusal complicates the chain of command on this issue. I'm not sure whether that power devolves onto Boente for investigations specifically into Trump-Russia or not, but it seems unlikely that Boente will do it if there's any question about whether he actually has that authority.
posted by tobascodagama at 5:28 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Every time there's some big breaking news headline about Trump's associates coordinating with Russians during the election I can't tell if it's a big deal because I thought we all knew that already.
posted by wondermouse at 5:29 PM on March 22, 2017 [80 favorites]
posted by wondermouse at 5:29 PM on March 22, 2017 [80 favorites]
Another bad sign for Trump, in the last month his approval rating among Republicans has dropped from 91% to 81%, and those who identify as Republicans dropped from 26% to 24%.
Doing the arithmetic:
2/2-6: 23% of sample self-identified GOP & approved of Trump. 3/16-21: 19%.
Lost approx one-sixth of his supporters.
posted by chris24 at 5:31 PM on March 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
Doing the arithmetic:
2/2-6: 23% of sample self-identified GOP & approved of Trump. 3/16-21: 19%.
Lost approx one-sixth of his supporters.
posted by chris24 at 5:31 PM on March 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
I'm getting an ulcer. I can't take the wild swings between 1) excitement at new developments, and 2) despair at the realization that the Republicans won't do a fucking thing about it.
I keep thinking there's a limit to the normalization of this awfulness, and it hasn't happened yet.
But I do want to thank everyone who has posted about fighting the good fight. The despair sucks, and I don't want to give into it.
posted by Salieri at 5:33 PM on March 22, 2017 [30 favorites]
I keep thinking there's a limit to the normalization of this awfulness, and it hasn't happened yet.
But I do want to thank everyone who has posted about fighting the good fight. The despair sucks, and I don't want to give into it.
posted by Salieri at 5:33 PM on March 22, 2017 [30 favorites]
The CNN front page looks glorious right now, especially because Trump is going to see it and go full on bull-in-a-china-shop tweet attack. Here's the rope, shitbag.
Coordination. Coordination. Coordination.
posted by lydhre at 5:33 PM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
Coordination. Coordination. Coordination.
posted by lydhre at 5:33 PM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
Democrats weigh deal to let Gorsuch through
For. Fuck. Sake.
Whenever the Republicans are the majority party, the Senate turns into a fuckin' Parliament, where the majority will ram anything through that they want with ZERO concern for the legislative priorities of the minority party.
As soon as the Dems are in the majority though, all of sudden, we're back to a Congress, where the Republicans kick and scream like toddlers because they don't get 100% of their legislative way--all the while refusing to meet with the President or even negotiatein good faith about anything.
The filibuster is dead when McConnell wants it to be. Pretending that the Heirs of Jefferson Davis won't yank it as soon as its convenient is utter folly.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:33 PM on March 22, 2017 [37 favorites]
For. Fuck. Sake.
Whenever the Republicans are the majority party, the Senate turns into a fuckin' Parliament, where the majority will ram anything through that they want with ZERO concern for the legislative priorities of the minority party.
As soon as the Dems are in the majority though, all of sudden, we're back to a Congress, where the Republicans kick and scream like toddlers because they don't get 100% of their legislative way--all the while refusing to meet with the President or even negotiate
The filibuster is dead when McConnell wants it to be. Pretending that the Heirs of Jefferson Davis won't yank it as soon as its convenient is utter folly.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:33 PM on March 22, 2017 [37 favorites]
We do all know it with certainty / there's very few mysteries left in the whole Trump/Russia business. It's more about getting to the point where it's undeniable to all but the most partisan and something has to be done about it.
Hey, at least the media isn't pretending it isn't there anymore.
posted by Artw at 5:34 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Hey, at least the media isn't pretending it isn't there anymore.
posted by Artw at 5:34 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Every time there's some big breaking news headline about Trump's associates coordinating with Russians during the election I can't tell if it's a big deal because I thought we all knew that already.
This is a big deal, I think, because it's the first time we've heard the IC "has information" versus "is investigating ".
posted by schoolgirl report at 5:34 PM on March 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
This is a big deal, I think, because it's the first time we've heard the IC "has information" versus "is investigating ".
posted by schoolgirl report at 5:34 PM on March 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
So how does the Press Corp decide who gets to ask Spicer The Question? I think we're just about ready for that first round of "What did the President know, and when did he know it?"
posted by Eddie Mars at 5:40 PM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Eddie Mars at 5:40 PM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
From the Gorsuch deal thing:
Their calculus is that if they filibuster Gorsuch the filibuster will be broken by changing the Senate rules and Gorsuch will get on the Court anyway, and then the Rs will ram through any further nominees without the filibuster being a possibility. Since they can't actually stop Gorsuch, the idea is to make sure Trump gets no further nominees through, particularly for a seat like RBGs.
I know some of you guys hate this idea. I'm not sure I expect a deal like this will be possible since it would require an awful lot of trust in the Republican "moderates" who would agree to it not to go ahead and break the filibuster anyway in the future. But it's not some sort of surrender, except in so far as some people see any attempt to salvage what can be salvaged as a surrender.
posted by Justinian at 5:41 PM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
The deal Democrats would be most likely to pursue, the sources said, would be to allow confirmation of Gorsuch in exchange for a commitment from Republicans not to kill the filibuster for a subsequent vacancy during President Donald Trump’s term. The next high court opening could alter the balance of the court, and some Democrats privately argue that fight will be far more consequential than the current one.This is what I was expecting in previous threads when I talked about the timing of a Democratic filibuster. It seems clear they are exploring a deal in which Gorsuch isn't filibustered... note this doesn't mean the Democrats will vote for his confirmation, only that they won't filibuster him... and in exchange they can filibuster any further SC nominations without the nuclear option being invoked. Reading between the lines it should be clear they are worried a second or even third vacancy could open up in the next few years (RBG, etc).
Their calculus is that if they filibuster Gorsuch the filibuster will be broken by changing the Senate rules and Gorsuch will get on the Court anyway, and then the Rs will ram through any further nominees without the filibuster being a possibility. Since they can't actually stop Gorsuch, the idea is to make sure Trump gets no further nominees through, particularly for a seat like RBGs.
I know some of you guys hate this idea. I'm not sure I expect a deal like this will be possible since it would require an awful lot of trust in the Republican "moderates" who would agree to it not to go ahead and break the filibuster anyway in the future. But it's not some sort of surrender, except in so far as some people see any attempt to salvage what can be salvaged as a surrender.
posted by Justinian at 5:41 PM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
Every time there's some big breaking news headline about Trump's associates coordinating with Russians during the election I can't tell if it's a big deal because I thought we all knew that already.
It's just like watching The X-Files.
posted by valkane at 5:42 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's just like watching The X-Files.
posted by valkane at 5:42 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's just like watching The X-Files.
The pee tape is out there.
posted by uosuaq at 5:45 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
The pee tape is out there.
posted by uosuaq at 5:45 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
On reflection, I think the story about a deal on Gorsuch is just a bullshit trial balloon without any chance of actually coming to fruition. I'm sure all sorts of "deals" are being considered, most of which have even less chance of happening. Your job as a Congressperson is to consider things even if they're not going to happen. And this isn't.
posted by Justinian at 5:46 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 5:46 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
LOL at the idea that the Republicans would make a commitment about the SC and then keep it while they hold the majority. They are lying liars who lie, and they'll scupper any "deal" the. minute they've gotten what they want out of it.
There are probably a few Republicans who would genuinely keep a deal like that - I bet that Egg, for example, would keep a deal if he were in office - but not any meaningful number.
posted by Frowner at 5:46 PM on March 22, 2017 [35 favorites]
There are probably a few Republicans who would genuinely keep a deal like that - I bet that Egg, for example, would keep a deal if he were in office - but not any meaningful number.
posted by Frowner at 5:46 PM on March 22, 2017 [35 favorites]
Yeah, as enraging as Gorsuch is to me, I'm much more scared of RBG and somebody from the liberal wing going down without the filibuster as the option. Replacing Scalia with Gotsuch just gives Thomas, Alito, and Roberts a new playmate. Putting a Trump appointee in a position to overturn Roe and Brown and same sex marriage and so many other things?
Of course, I'm not sure how the Dems would ever enforce a deal like that with the Republicans.
posted by joyceanmachine at 5:47 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Of course, I'm not sure how the Dems would ever enforce a deal like that with the Republicans.
posted by joyceanmachine at 5:47 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
in exchange for a commitment from Republicans not to kill the filibuster for a subsequent vacancy during President Donald Trump’s term
I'm torn between making a Darth Vader "I altered the deal" reference and a Lucy holding the football and promising not to yank it away again reference.
posted by Candleman at 5:47 PM on March 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
I'm torn between making a Darth Vader "I altered the deal" reference and a Lucy holding the football and promising not to yank it away again reference.
posted by Candleman at 5:47 PM on March 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
Yeah, which is why I don't expect any sort of deal to be made... or even seriously presented to the Republicans. I'm just saying the deal isn't inherently a terrible idea if it could be trusted. Which it can't. And I have to assume the Ds are smart enough to realize that.
posted by Justinian at 5:49 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 5:49 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
The pee tape is out there.
The Erlenmeyer Flask.
posted by Artw at 5:49 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Erlenmeyer Flask.
posted by Artw at 5:49 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
The pee tape is out there.
There is all of this treasonous aberrant behavior from a monstrous and cruel president and odds are, that's going to be thing that brings him down and people remember.
I wouldn't even care if the president wanted to watch women pee (excepting the alleged circumstances and motivations). The tape probably isn't real. But I want to believe.
And I have so little else.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:52 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
There is all of this treasonous aberrant behavior from a monstrous and cruel president and odds are, that's going to be thing that brings him down and people remember.
I wouldn't even care if the president wanted to watch women pee (excepting the alleged circumstances and motivations). The tape probably isn't real. But I want to believe.
And I have so little else.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:52 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
US Officials: Info suggests Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians
Kislyak: Everyone here in Russia agrees, only you can save the world from Islamic terrorism. Even most important Russians know this ha ha ha.
Tumpr: Yeah, no question, I--
Kislyak: So we help election, but we must be careful, yes? All press is out to get you.
Tmpur: I can, I can, you know--
Kislyak: We will be in touch "Mr President" aha ha ha.
*click*
INT. EVENING. KISLYAK WATCHES CNN
Trpum (on TV): So Russia, if you're listening, I hope--
VODKA SPRAYS ACROSS THE ROOM
Kislyak: FUCKING IDIOT
posted by um at 5:53 PM on March 22, 2017 [78 favorites]
Kislyak: Everyone here in Russia agrees, only you can save the world from Islamic terrorism. Even most important Russians know this ha ha ha.
Tumpr: Yeah, no question, I--
Kislyak: So we help election, but we must be careful, yes? All press is out to get you.
Tmpur: I can, I can, you know--
Kislyak: We will be in touch "Mr President" aha ha ha.
*click*
INT. EVENING. KISLYAK WATCHES CNN
Trpum (on TV): So Russia, if you're listening, I hope--
VODKA SPRAYS ACROSS THE ROOM
Kislyak: FUCKING IDIOT
posted by um at 5:53 PM on March 22, 2017 [78 favorites]
It won't really matter either way. If they don't make a deal and every Democrat stands against Gorsuch, they'll just override any filibuster by eliminating it and confirm him. If they do make a deal Gorsuch still gets confirmed, and next justice that comes up will be the same thing.
Given that its just about optics, and Democrats have zero way of influencing his confirmation, I tend to agree they should just filibuster and not try and make some kind of deal... but it doesn't matter in the end, as no voter is going to change their minds based on either course of action. (I could come up with a wishful-thinking story where Dems do the deal, GOP obviously reneges on it in the future, and voters are angry --- but lets remember voters didn't care that Garland was denied a vote, so anyone who is voting GOP already doesn't care if they party uses dirty tricks or changes the rules last minute to get the judge they want).
Dems have better things to spend their energy on (things like what Schiff has been doing in the intelligence committee), so I don't really want them to spend much time on Gorsuch either way.
posted by thefoxgod at 5:53 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Given that its just about optics, and Democrats have zero way of influencing his confirmation, I tend to agree they should just filibuster and not try and make some kind of deal... but it doesn't matter in the end, as no voter is going to change their minds based on either course of action. (I could come up with a wishful-thinking story where Dems do the deal, GOP obviously reneges on it in the future, and voters are angry --- but lets remember voters didn't care that Garland was denied a vote, so anyone who is voting GOP already doesn't care if they party uses dirty tricks or changes the rules last minute to get the judge they want).
Dems have better things to spend their energy on (things like what Schiff has been doing in the intelligence committee), so I don't really want them to spend much time on Gorsuch either way.
posted by thefoxgod at 5:53 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
I get what you're saying Justinian but I disagree with the tactic. The Democrats should not be entertaining any "deals". They should tell the Republicans to get fucked and prepare for a fight. They cannot make deals with them, reason with them, trust them, or work with them. The Republicans are clear about this. I don't know what the Democrats think they are accomplishing by even appearing to consider "making deals".
posted by supercrayon at 5:54 PM on March 22, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by supercrayon at 5:54 PM on March 22, 2017 [18 favorites]
Well, the cynic in me says maybe they're trying to appear reasonable and moderate to wishy washy middle of the roaders by leaking the supposed deal under consideration and then will quietly drop said consideration and try to obstruct, which will make the firebrands happy. Win win!
Calling this a "deal under consideration" is, from my reading, even a stretch. There are no talks with Republicans. There is no prospect of talks with Republicans. It sounds like these potential deals were just the result of some kind of spitballing session.
posted by Justinian at 5:58 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Calling this a "deal under consideration" is, from my reading, even a stretch. There are no talks with Republicans. There is no prospect of talks with Republicans. It sounds like these potential deals were just the result of some kind of spitballing session.
posted by Justinian at 5:58 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
The filibuster is dead when McConnell wants it to be. Pretending that the Heirs of Jefferson Davis won't yank it as soon as its convenient is utter folly.
Yeah, I kind of don't care whether the filibuster gets nuked now or later, except that it would annoy Gorsuch a bit to be dissed like that and he certainly deserves to be annoyed as much as possible. But the Democrats don't seem to get that there is no saving the filibuster because they will never be permitted to actually use it successfully on a SCOTUS nom.
If they think that next time, when the appointment counts way way way more than this one and the Republican base is screaming its fucking head off 24/7 to put in somebody so far right that it makes Gorsuch look like Che, the Republican Senate would allow their glassy-eyed nutball to be filibustered, then they are too dumb to live.
It's not a question of "if," Burr, but which one.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:00 PM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
Yeah, I kind of don't care whether the filibuster gets nuked now or later, except that it would annoy Gorsuch a bit to be dissed like that and he certainly deserves to be annoyed as much as possible. But the Democrats don't seem to get that there is no saving the filibuster because they will never be permitted to actually use it successfully on a SCOTUS nom.
If they think that next time, when the appointment counts way way way more than this one and the Republican base is screaming its fucking head off 24/7 to put in somebody so far right that it makes Gorsuch look like Che, the Republican Senate would allow their glassy-eyed nutball to be filibustered, then they are too dumb to live.
It's not a question of "if," Burr, but which one.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:00 PM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
If I were the Dems I would say that it's inappropriate to confirm a Supreme Court nominee appointed by a president who is being investigated for very serious crimes, and the entire vote is illegitimate. Then I would boycott the vote. But that's just me.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:01 PM on March 22, 2017 [67 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:01 PM on March 22, 2017 [67 favorites]
Again, again, the possible existence of the pee tape isn't about what Donald gets up to in his spare time. It's about Putin having compromising material with which to control him (and just the clearest example of what that material might be). I think the great majority of American people will be able to understand that we don't want a President who's being blackmailed by Russia.
posted by uosuaq at 6:04 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 6:04 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Seriously: That deal cannot be serious. Based on everything we've seen of the GOP for the last 8+ years, along with the demand for ideological purity and single-mindedness of the conservative movement that dominates the party, why would anyone for a moment believe the Republicans would honor any agreement that kept them from turning a 4-4-1 court into a straight 5-4 court?
posted by absalom at 6:09 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by absalom at 6:09 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
And not a PEEP from Pence.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 6:11 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 6:11 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
The President just retweeted Bill Mitchell linking to Gateway Pundit.
Can this day possibly get any stupider? I mean yes, of course it will, because it's 2017 and Paul Ryan is running around like a madman trying to destroy the healthcare system in the next 24 hours, but this day is really really stupid.
posted by zachlipton at 6:13 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Can this day possibly get any stupider? I mean yes, of course it will, because it's 2017 and Paul Ryan is running around like a madman trying to destroy the healthcare system in the next 24 hours, but this day is really really stupid.
posted by zachlipton at 6:13 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
The Koch brothers are financially backing reps to vote no on the AHCA.
What the fucking what?
posted by Sophie1 at 6:13 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
What the fucking what?
posted by Sophie1 at 6:13 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
What the fucking what?
Kochs want full repeal, not replacement. They're on the same side as the Freedom Caucus: AHCA isn't cruel enough.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:16 PM on March 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
Kochs want full repeal, not replacement. They're on the same side as the Freedom Caucus: AHCA isn't cruel enough.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:16 PM on March 22, 2017 [15 favorites]
Yeah, if these are the terms that the Democrats are "saving" the filibuster under, it's actually a benefit if they force the Republicans to invoke the nuclear option against judicial filibusters. Under these terms, the filibuster is known to have no benefit for the Democrats, but could possibly be used by the Republicans. Provoking the Republicans to ban it is a way to take a potential weapon out of Republican hands at no loss to the Democrats.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:16 PM on March 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:16 PM on March 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
I'm sure the pee tape is real, and what's more, i'm sure that -- 2017 being what it is -- Dampnut's not going out before we've all seen the pee tape on prime-time TV.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:16 PM on March 22, 2017
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:16 PM on March 22, 2017
The Kochs oppose the AHCA because they think it's watered-down Obamacare. They want a completely unregulated insurance market without things like pre-existing condition protections. Trump is threatening to turn on any Republican who votes against it, and that's freaking out people who want to vote against it from the right. The Kochs are promising to spend their money to protect anyone who gets in trouble with Trump because they don't think the AHCA starves quite enough grannies.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:17 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:17 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
SNL should do a skit of pee tapes that aren't real. Get people talkin'.
posted by rhizome at 6:18 PM on March 22, 2017
posted by rhizome at 6:18 PM on March 22, 2017
After the Democrats infighting weakened the ACA, seeing the right tearing themselves apart over their own healthcare bill is glorious (especially since it appears to be a bigger rift, the ACA's problem was mostly just a few unreasonable Senators).
posted by thefoxgod at 6:19 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by thefoxgod at 6:19 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
LOL at the idea that the Republicans would make a commitment about the SC and then keep it while they hold the majority. They are lying liars who lie, and they'll scupper any "deal" the. minute they've gotten what they want out of it.
Quick! Let's twitter blast/fax/whatever the Dems The Story of the Snake.
posted by futz at 6:20 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Quick! Let's twitter blast/fax/whatever the Dems The Story of the Snake.
posted by futz at 6:20 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
After the Democrats infighting weakened the ACA, seeing the right tearing themselves apart over their own healthcare bill is gloriousOn the one hand, sure. On the other hand, it's pretty likely that *a lot* of people are going to die because of this when all is said and done, which kind of tempers the schadenfreude.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:21 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Koch brothers are financially backing reps to vote no on the AHCA.
I'm just some dumb Australian unfamiliar with your sophisticated American ways but is this not a bribe?
posted by um at 6:26 PM on March 22, 2017 [18 favorites]
I'm just some dumb Australian unfamiliar with your sophisticated American ways but is this not a bribe?
posted by um at 6:26 PM on March 22, 2017 [18 favorites]
On the other hand, it's pretty likely that *a lot* of people are going to die because of this when all is said and done
You think they will actually pass something? I'm not convinced of that. We'll see I guess --- clearly this bill is not going to pass. I'm not clear how many times they'll keep trying.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:28 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
You think they will actually pass something? I'm not convinced of that. We'll see I guess --- clearly this bill is not going to pass. I'm not clear how many times they'll keep trying.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:28 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Bribes are free speech here.
posted by Artw at 6:29 PM on March 22, 2017 [63 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:29 PM on March 22, 2017 [63 favorites]
"I'll give you money if ________" is the foundation of our campaign finance system.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:30 PM on March 22, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:30 PM on March 22, 2017 [28 favorites]
And I have to assume the Ds are smart enough to realize that.
Oh, you really don't have to, especially with all the evidence to the contrary.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:31 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh, you really don't have to, especially with all the evidence to the contrary.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:31 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
If the representative actually stuffs the money in his pants (one did) and cries out, I gots me a bribe, then it is a bribe. (Putting it in the freezer also looks bad).
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:32 PM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:32 PM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
You think they will actually pass something? I'm not convinced of that.I'm definitely not convinced of it, although I think it could still happen. But if they don't pass anything, then their next move is to sabotage the ACA as much as possible.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:34 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Donald Trump Jr. drunkenly wet the bed so much in college they called him ‘Diaper Don’
From a 11/3/16 Facebook post linked in the article:
As many of you know, I attended the University of Pennsylvania with Donald Trump Jr. I feel compelled to share this story before the election, in the hopes that it will shed a bit of light on the kind of person that Donald Trump is, and the kind of son that he raised.
I was hanging out in a freshman dorm with some friends, next door to Donald Jr.'s room. I walked out of the room to find Donald Trump at his son's door, there to pick him up for a baseball game. There were quite a few students standing around watching, trying to catch a glimpse of the famed real estate magnate. Don Jr. opened the door, wearing a Yankee jersey. Without saying a word, his father slapped him across the face, knocking him to the floor in front of all of his classmates. He simply said "put on a suit and meet me outside," and closed the door.
Donald Jr. was a drunk in college. Every memory I have of him is of him stumbling around campus falling over or passing out in public, with his arm in a sling from injuring himself while drinking. He absolutely despised his father, and hated the attention that his last name afforded him. His nickname was "Diaper Don," because of his tendency to fall asleep drunk in other people's beds and urinate. I always felt terrible for him.
I am voting for Hillary Clinton for a number of reasons, her opponent notwithstanding. However, in light of what I saw that day, it is clear to me that Donald Trump lacks the temperament and basic social decency to run our country.
posted by futz at 6:36 PM on March 22, 2017 [18 favorites]
From a 11/3/16 Facebook post linked in the article:
As many of you know, I attended the University of Pennsylvania with Donald Trump Jr. I feel compelled to share this story before the election, in the hopes that it will shed a bit of light on the kind of person that Donald Trump is, and the kind of son that he raised.
I was hanging out in a freshman dorm with some friends, next door to Donald Jr.'s room. I walked out of the room to find Donald Trump at his son's door, there to pick him up for a baseball game. There were quite a few students standing around watching, trying to catch a glimpse of the famed real estate magnate. Don Jr. opened the door, wearing a Yankee jersey. Without saying a word, his father slapped him across the face, knocking him to the floor in front of all of his classmates. He simply said "put on a suit and meet me outside," and closed the door.
Donald Jr. was a drunk in college. Every memory I have of him is of him stumbling around campus falling over or passing out in public, with his arm in a sling from injuring himself while drinking. He absolutely despised his father, and hated the attention that his last name afforded him. His nickname was "Diaper Don," because of his tendency to fall asleep drunk in other people's beds and urinate. I always felt terrible for him.
I am voting for Hillary Clinton for a number of reasons, her opponent notwithstanding. However, in light of what I saw that day, it is clear to me that Donald Trump lacks the temperament and basic social decency to run our country.
posted by futz at 6:36 PM on March 22, 2017 [18 favorites]
I dunno, Ralph Shortey probably would be doing much better than he is right now if he had only put his cash-filled pants in the freezer.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:36 PM on March 22, 2017
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:36 PM on March 22, 2017
how is the koch offer not a bribe? seriously want to know. does it have to be specific to an individual? something else?
if we look at it on the level of a voter in a city election, if i say, "vote for bob, and i'll slip you a twenty", that's illegal...
posted by j_curiouser at 6:40 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
if we look at it on the level of a voter in a city election, if i say, "vote for bob, and i'll slip you a twenty", that's illegal...
posted by j_curiouser at 6:40 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is no time for any deals or negotiation...it's time to DROP THE FUCKIN' HAMMER.
The future of HUMANITY is at stake. It's time for some heroics of EPIC PROPORTIONS. Our not so beloved Dems need to step up and HAMMER away at the deceit, blatant lies and totally immoral and reprehensible goals of the Republican party. (Can't anyone afford to put out an ad on national TV that illustrates exactly WTF is going on? Where is the creativity and imagination?)
We all know that DEMs are afraid to get their hands dirty. They take the higher, more intellectual road...so to speak. It's time to get dirty and realize that we can't achieve anything with these turds by being...I don't even know...nice? Civil? Fuck civility.
In my own personal life I've been hurting a lot of people's feelings. Oh, you voted for Nazis? Fuck off. You thought you were doing the right thing...wrong. Fuck off. You think Fox news is legit? Yea, sorry...fuck off.
It's tough man, and I'm having a hard time finding like minded people here in my town, even though it's mostly Latino and Black. (I live in a Barrio now, and I'm worried more about being anti-Trump than about being the only white guy.)
(Please forgive my ranting.)
posted by snsranch at 6:41 PM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
The future of HUMANITY is at stake. It's time for some heroics of EPIC PROPORTIONS. Our not so beloved Dems need to step up and HAMMER away at the deceit, blatant lies and totally immoral and reprehensible goals of the Republican party. (Can't anyone afford to put out an ad on national TV that illustrates exactly WTF is going on? Where is the creativity and imagination?)
We all know that DEMs are afraid to get their hands dirty. They take the higher, more intellectual road...so to speak. It's time to get dirty and realize that we can't achieve anything with these turds by being...I don't even know...nice? Civil? Fuck civility.
In my own personal life I've been hurting a lot of people's feelings. Oh, you voted for Nazis? Fuck off. You thought you were doing the right thing...wrong. Fuck off. You think Fox news is legit? Yea, sorry...fuck off.
It's tough man, and I'm having a hard time finding like minded people here in my town, even though it's mostly Latino and Black. (I live in a Barrio now, and I'm worried more about being anti-Trump than about being the only white guy.)
(Please forgive my ranting.)
posted by snsranch at 6:41 PM on March 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
It's not a bribe if they give money to that Congressperson's campaign. It is a bribe if they give that money to the Congressperson to spend on hookers and blow.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:41 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:41 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
The Koch brothers openly offering campaign support in exchange for votes on specific bills is the best argument I've seen yet for overturning Citizens United.
posted by Room 101 at 6:41 PM on March 22, 2017 [78 favorites]
posted by Room 101 at 6:41 PM on March 22, 2017 [78 favorites]
The filibuster is dead when McConnell wants it to be. Pretending that the Heirs of Jefferson Davis won't yank it as soon as its convenient is utter folly.
McConnell still has to get 51 votes for it. The commentary I've seen, and I can't remember from whom except that it was somebody or other who knows the Senate, was that if the Dems filibuster Gorsuch, McConnell easily has the 51 votes to nuke the filibuster for SC nominations because Gorsuch is awful-within-normal-standards and is replacing Scalia, and then it's gone forever. If they don't filibuster Gorsuch, then McConnell will need to get 51 votes to nuke the SC filibuster for that appointment... and he might not have it for that one, because that one might be even worse than Gorsuch or make a real change in the court.
I don't have the faith in people like Collins and Murkowski that this train of thought requires, but it's certainly not crazy-talk or rank appeasement. The idea of doing this with some sort of deal that McConnell would almost certainly try to break, instead of just letting the logic play out without any deal, is very distasteful.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:43 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
McConnell still has to get 51 votes for it. The commentary I've seen, and I can't remember from whom except that it was somebody or other who knows the Senate, was that if the Dems filibuster Gorsuch, McConnell easily has the 51 votes to nuke the filibuster for SC nominations because Gorsuch is awful-within-normal-standards and is replacing Scalia, and then it's gone forever. If they don't filibuster Gorsuch, then McConnell will need to get 51 votes to nuke the SC filibuster for that appointment... and he might not have it for that one, because that one might be even worse than Gorsuch or make a real change in the court.
I don't have the faith in people like Collins and Murkowski that this train of thought requires, but it's certainly not crazy-talk or rank appeasement. The idea of doing this with some sort of deal that McConnell would almost certainly try to break, instead of just letting the logic play out without any deal, is very distasteful.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:43 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Is this not the way it goes down literally all the time? This is kind of what lobbyists do, no? They go around and say "My client will support your campaign if you vote XYZ/ammend bill XYZ to include the wording they prefer."
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:44 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:44 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
RawStory: Sarah Palin gets roasted online for complaining about Colin Kaepernick’s donation to Meals on Wheels
posted by porn in the woods at 6:45 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by porn in the woods at 6:45 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
It's worth mentioning the other terrorist attack: a white supremacist came to New York to attack black men and stabbed a man to death.
posted by zachlipton at 6:54 PM on March 22, 2017 [58 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 6:54 PM on March 22, 2017 [58 favorites]
The timing here could actually be useful. We know precious few Dems, if any, are going to vote for the AHCA. If some do, even if (when) it doesn't pass, the resistance should immediately unleash its mighty wrath against those people. Protests, marathon phone calls, primary vows, "vote them out" chants, Bon Voyage/Going Away greeting cards, with a clear consistent THIS IS WHAT ALL QUISLINGS SHOULD EXPECT; DO THE REST OF Y'ALL WANT THIS TO BE YOU? message also mentioning Gorsuch.
Then a whole lot of "Don't you dare play ball" calls up to the Gorsuch vote.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:54 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Then a whole lot of "Don't you dare play ball" calls up to the Gorsuch vote.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:54 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's not a bribe if they give money to that Congressperson's campaign
Nah, it would be illegal for them to give money to the campaign, or directly to the Congressperson.
What they are saying is that they, the Koch Brothers, will spend their own money promoting their own political views -- which is their first ammendment right according to Citizens United -- and that their political view is that no one should vote for congresspeople who voted for this bill. They will pay for the TV ads, etc, directly from their superPAC, with no money going to the campaigns, and in theory no coordination with the campaigns.
This was illegal in the US until 2010, which was when Citzens United was decided. This is why people are still very upset about that decision.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:56 PM on March 22, 2017 [25 favorites]
Nah, it would be illegal for them to give money to the campaign, or directly to the Congressperson.
What they are saying is that they, the Koch Brothers, will spend their own money promoting their own political views -- which is their first ammendment right according to Citizens United -- and that their political view is that no one should vote for congresspeople who voted for this bill. They will pay for the TV ads, etc, directly from their superPAC, with no money going to the campaigns, and in theory no coordination with the campaigns.
This was illegal in the US until 2010, which was when Citzens United was decided. This is why people are still very upset about that decision.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:56 PM on March 22, 2017 [25 favorites]
Huh. Tfw Congress is less corrupt than you thought it was.
Imma bottle this, I may never experience it again.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:01 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Imma bottle this, I may never experience it again.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:01 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
INT. EVENING. KISLYAK WATCHES CNN
Trpum (on TV): So Russia, if you're listening, I hope--
VODKA SPRAYS ACROSS THE ROOM
Kislyak: FUCKING IDIOT
This is why I'm 100% sure that either a) Gorsuch is lying through his teeth about Trump never mentioning "litmus test" issues to him or b) Trump has never actually been in a room with Gorsuch except when he introduced him on TV.
Because Trump is totally unable to control his mouth and also delights in flagrantly flouting norms and etiquette. There is no possible way he could chat with Gorsuch for more than 30 seconds without trotting out every vulgar blatant litmus testing line he ever spouted at a rally.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:02 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Trpum (on TV): So Russia, if you're listening, I hope--
VODKA SPRAYS ACROSS THE ROOM
Kislyak: FUCKING IDIOT
This is why I'm 100% sure that either a) Gorsuch is lying through his teeth about Trump never mentioning "litmus test" issues to him or b) Trump has never actually been in a room with Gorsuch except when he introduced him on TV.
Because Trump is totally unable to control his mouth and also delights in flagrantly flouting norms and etiquette. There is no possible way he could chat with Gorsuch for more than 30 seconds without trotting out every vulgar blatant litmus testing line he ever spouted at a rally.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:02 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
What desperately even-handed CBC radio news editor is responsible for leading the Nunes story as (my close paraphrase) "Committee chair gives partial support to Trump's claims of Obama wiretapping"? FFS.
posted by maudlin at 7:06 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by maudlin at 7:06 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Watching Lawrence O"Donnell. He's saying that Paul Ryan told Nunes to scurry to the WH and tell trump. Did I miss this earlier or is it new news?
posted by futz at 7:12 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by futz at 7:12 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
I see you've discovered the new and improved CBC, maudlin. Wait until you discover what right-wing controversy baiter they had on a month ago.
(It was Sheila Gunn)
posted by Yowser at 7:14 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
(It was Sheila Gunn)
posted by Yowser at 7:14 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
"What desperately even-handed CBC radio news editor is responsible for leading the Nunes story as (my close paraphrase) "Committee chair gives partial support to Trump's claims of Obama wiretapping"? FFS."
I sometimes think that the media en masse like failed that bit of the SATs where they give you a paragraph and then ask you "What was the main point of the previous paragraph?". The main point of today's Russia paragraph was:
-Manafort worked to aid the Putin government prior to signing up to run Trumps campaign.
-Trump associates may have colluded with Russia during the campaign, and the FBI has evidence of this.
-Nunes went rogue and held a press conference after briefing Ryan and the Trump administration of the above, ergo derailing the ability of the House Intelligence Committee to do its job.
What the main point was not:
-those made-up ass claims that Obama had "tapped" Trump's communications are kind of true, in a way, if you squint
posted by supercrayon at 7:17 PM on March 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
I sometimes think that the media en masse like failed that bit of the SATs where they give you a paragraph and then ask you "What was the main point of the previous paragraph?". The main point of today's Russia paragraph was:
-Manafort worked to aid the Putin government prior to signing up to run Trumps campaign.
-Trump associates may have colluded with Russia during the campaign, and the FBI has evidence of this.
-Nunes went rogue and held a press conference after briefing Ryan and the Trump administration of the above, ergo derailing the ability of the House Intelligence Committee to do its job.
What the main point was not:
-those made-up ass claims that Obama had "tapped" Trump's communications are kind of true, in a way, if you squint
posted by supercrayon at 7:17 PM on March 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
Can anybody correct my half-assed, Wikipedia-fueled speculation on special prosecutors above? Is there a mechanism for Congress to appoint one that I'm not aware of, or does the buck truly stop with the USAG's office?
posted by tobascodagama at 7:18 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by tobascodagama at 7:18 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hawaii Republican resigns from party after criticizing Trump
A Hawaii lawmaker who says she was pressured to give up her leadership post at the statehouse after criticizing President Donald Trump resigned Wednesday from the Republican Party.
Rep. Beth Fukumoto said members of the GOP refused to oppose racism and sexism including a suggestion by Trump to create a Muslim registry during his campaign.
“As a Japanese-American whose grandparents had to destroy all of their Japanese artifacts and items and bury them in the backyard to avoid getting taken and interned, how could I not have said anything?” Fukumoto asked. “And how could my party have not said anything?”
posted by futz at 7:30 PM on March 22, 2017 [85 favorites]
A Hawaii lawmaker who says she was pressured to give up her leadership post at the statehouse after criticizing President Donald Trump resigned Wednesday from the Republican Party.
Rep. Beth Fukumoto said members of the GOP refused to oppose racism and sexism including a suggestion by Trump to create a Muslim registry during his campaign.
“As a Japanese-American whose grandparents had to destroy all of their Japanese artifacts and items and bury them in the backyard to avoid getting taken and interned, how could I not have said anything?” Fukumoto asked. “And how could my party have not said anything?”
posted by futz at 7:30 PM on March 22, 2017 [85 favorites]
Golly, this sure is getting interesting, like national crisis hunter thompson interesting golly gee.
posted by vrakatar at 7:30 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 7:30 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
WRT to nuking the filibuster it's important to remember that individual senators like it because it gives them independence from party/senate leadership. When they nuke the filibuster, they also nuke that piece of their autonomy forever after.
posted by notyou at 7:38 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by notyou at 7:38 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Right, a lot of Senators like the idea that the filibuster gives them a lot more power than a House Rep. As long as it is Republicans exercising that power. If Democrats exercise it... uh oh.
posted by Justinian at 7:40 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:40 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
I like to console myself by imagining the day when they pack up all Ivanka's stuff and Bannon's stuff, and take down those nauseating gold curtains and give the whole place a thorough scrub. I picture the cleaning staff whistling under their breath, smiling with sober pleasure.
That day is coming. These people are awful but I promise they won't rule forever. Of course, it's an even sweeter fantasy if you picture it happening, like, next month after Trump is taken to jail. Or - even better - after he and his horrible uncanny-valley-looking family flee into exile.
(Don't they all look totally uncanny valley? Ivanka and Jared especially, but they all look animatronic except maybe Barron and Tiffany.)
posted by Frowner at 7:40 PM on March 22, 2017 [28 favorites]
That day is coming. These people are awful but I promise they won't rule forever. Of course, it's an even sweeter fantasy if you picture it happening, like, next month after Trump is taken to jail. Or - even better - after he and his horrible uncanny-valley-looking family flee into exile.
(Don't they all look totally uncanny valley? Ivanka and Jared especially, but they all look animatronic except maybe Barron and Tiffany.)
posted by Frowner at 7:40 PM on March 22, 2017 [28 favorites]
I'm going to hell for this, but Jared is actually sort of cute. You know, in a mindless amoral evil way. But yes, the entire Trump bloodline is the valley of uncanny. Melania is like the Mme. Tussaud's Cindy Crawford exhibit.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:45 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:45 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
If this bill tanks, and I really really hope it does, Bernie needs to build on his great showing of connecting with red state voters in that West Virginia town hall by going around the country and on TV connecting with red state voters on his own healthcare plan. I think he could do it, or at least make a dent, he's got a great way of respectfully discussing difficult ideas with voters who wouldn't listen to other Democrats (seriously check out that town hall) and I would absolutely love to see Trump and Ryan totally apoplectic about their own base hating their plan and loving Bernie's. The AHCA is so unpopular at a time when people are finally realizing what the ACA did to help them that it presents a great chance to build the political capital to implement something better than both. It wouldn't pass in this congress, but by refusing to pass a genuinely popular option while doubling down on the garbage AHCA, it would be a stone around the neck of Republicans in 2018.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:45 PM on March 22, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 7:45 PM on March 22, 2017 [38 favorites]
I like to console myself by imagining the day when they pack up all Ivanka's stuff and Bannon's stuff, and take down those nauseating gold curtains and give the whole place a thorough scrub. I picture the cleaning staff whistling under their breath, smiling with sober pleasure.
Wasn't there a bit in Dune about how hard the local staff worked to scrub away evidence of the Harkonnen when the Atreides moved into the palace?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:48 PM on March 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
Wasn't there a bit in Dune about how hard the local staff worked to scrub away evidence of the Harkonnen when the Atreides moved into the palace?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:48 PM on March 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
Republicans Quickly Rewriting Much of Health Bill:
“Just hours before an expected Thursday vote in the House, congressional Republicans are considering massive changes to insurance coverage without even a basic idea of what those changes would mean,” the Huffington Post reports.posted by Chrysostom at 7:48 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
“According to House Freedom Caucus members, the conservative group is negotiating directly with President Donald Trump and the White House on an amendment to the Republican health care bill, seemingly cutting out GOP leadership from the conversation as Speaker Paul Ryan (R-WI) and his deputies work to corral votes for a bill that is, in these latest provisions, a mystery even to them.”
“The re-opening of negotiations is an admission of what has been clear all along ― that the bill as constructed by Ryan does not have the votes to pass on Thursday.”
So they are going to vote on massive changes that have not been scored by the CBO?
posted by Justinian at 7:54 PM on March 22, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:54 PM on March 22, 2017 [38 favorites]
Just get to "yes," get the senate to their "yes" and get everyone to "yes" in conference. Trump's giving everyone in the GOP a ton of leverage at every step to get a law passed.
posted by notyou at 7:59 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by notyou at 7:59 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
So they are going to vote on massive changes that have not been scored by the CBO?
Well, it can only make it better right?
posted by Artw at 7:59 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, it can only make it better right?
posted by Artw at 7:59 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
take down those nauseating gold curtains
Hillary chose those same curtains for Bill in '93.
posted by futz at 8:00 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Hillary chose those same curtains for Bill in '93.
posted by futz at 8:00 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
If Trump's adding "make the Freedom Caucus happy" stuff to the AHCA, the Senate's going to take it out behind the barn and shoot it.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:03 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:03 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Freedom caucus member: "astonished by how in over his head Trump is"
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:04 PM on March 22, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:04 PM on March 22, 2017 [18 favorites]
But as the White House keeps negotiating with the Freedom Caucus behind Ryan's back to screw over more people, they're bleeding moderates (yes, there actually are some GOP moderates in the House) like Charlie Dent on the basis that the bill screws over too many people too bigly.
Dent and his "Tuesday Group" moderates were just meeting in Ryan's office, but they slipped out through a back door, evading reporters staked out outside, possibly involving a ruse in which reporters were distracted with free snacks. You can follow the slow descent of Congressional reporters into madness with this Twitter list.
Now, they're talking about stripping the essential health benefits, the thing in the law that says that something called "health insurance" actually has to pay for stuff like prescription drugs and pregnancy and mental health treatment instead of just buying you a box of band-aids and a sympathy card when you get sick. That might get more of the Freedom Caucus folks on board (because they get to cut a regulation), but it's scaring off more reps from the left. The question is whether there's an equilibrium in the middle or whether every vote they grub on the right means another one gone off the left.
So they are going to vote on massive change that have not been scored by the CBO?
At this point, it seems like they will vote on literally anything that might get them the votes, all negotiated in the middle of the night. If Ryan thought that an official Congressional invitation to invite King Kong to ravage New York would get him an additional vote, he'd put it in the bill.
posted by zachlipton at 8:04 PM on March 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
Dent and his "Tuesday Group" moderates were just meeting in Ryan's office, but they slipped out through a back door, evading reporters staked out outside, possibly involving a ruse in which reporters were distracted with free snacks. You can follow the slow descent of Congressional reporters into madness with this Twitter list.
Now, they're talking about stripping the essential health benefits, the thing in the law that says that something called "health insurance" actually has to pay for stuff like prescription drugs and pregnancy and mental health treatment instead of just buying you a box of band-aids and a sympathy card when you get sick. That might get more of the Freedom Caucus folks on board (because they get to cut a regulation), but it's scaring off more reps from the left. The question is whether there's an equilibrium in the middle or whether every vote they grub on the right means another one gone off the left.
So they are going to vote on massive change that have not been scored by the CBO?
At this point, it seems like they will vote on literally anything that might get them the votes, all negotiated in the middle of the night. If Ryan thought that an official Congressional invitation to invite King Kong to ravage New York would get him an additional vote, he'd put it in the bill.
posted by zachlipton at 8:04 PM on March 22, 2017 [17 favorites]
Gold curtains will always be nauseating. And frankly, we would not be here without Bill's commitment to ending welfare as we know it and starting trade agreements as we know them, not to mention skeeving on women, so it's appropriate enough.
posted by Frowner at 8:05 PM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 8:05 PM on March 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
Yeah, which is why I don't expect any sort of deal to be made... or even seriously presented to the Republicans. I'm just saying the deal isn't inherently a terrible idea if it could be trusted. Which it can't. And I have to assume the Ds are smart enough to realize that.
If Republicans could be trusted, this wouldn't be the worst deal to consider. They can't. They're utterly untrustworthy, and should be expected to go back on any "deal" made on any subject, much less eternal control of the Court. This changes nothing. Filibuster, or traitors. No real decision to make.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:10 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
If Republicans could be trusted, this wouldn't be the worst deal to consider. They can't. They're utterly untrustworthy, and should be expected to go back on any "deal" made on any subject, much less eternal control of the Court. This changes nothing. Filibuster, or traitors. No real decision to make.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:10 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Bill Clinton didn't start trade negotiations "as we know them." GATT especially was far before his time, and the FTA was signed long before he was president.
posted by Yowser at 8:14 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 8:14 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
If I were the Dems I would say that it's inappropriate to confirm a Supreme Court nominee appointed by a president who is being investigated for very serious crimes, and the entire vote is illegitimate.
Well, it's a longstanding Republican principle that you can't confirm a Supreme Court justice during an election because the voters haven't had their say, and Trump's already started his 2020 campaign, so...
posted by kirkaracha at 8:14 PM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
>Freedom caucus member: "astonished by how in over his head Trump is"
Yes, it is certainly astonishing that someone who ran on having no political background or qualifications has no idea what to do when placed in political office. My goodness yes how astonishing who could have foreseen this startling outcome my word.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:18 PM on March 22, 2017 [96 favorites]
Yes, it is certainly astonishing that someone who ran on having no political background or qualifications has no idea what to do when placed in political office. My goodness yes how astonishing who could have foreseen this startling outcome my word.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:18 PM on March 22, 2017 [96 favorites]
There are probably a few Republicans who would genuinely keep a deal like that - I bet that Egg, for example, would keep a deal if he were in office - but not any meaningful number.
Yes, but they only need 3. Lee, Sasse, Flake, would be three - and all three want Gorsuch, who was not Trump's choice but a deal, on the court more than they want any nominee Trump might appoint on his own.
posted by corb at 8:18 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yes, but they only need 3. Lee, Sasse, Flake, would be three - and all three want Gorsuch, who was not Trump's choice but a deal, on the court more than they want any nominee Trump might appoint on his own.
posted by corb at 8:18 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
GATT was well before Clinton's time, but the Uruguay round, which was something he closed on, radically changed GATT and made it into the kind of trade agreement which we know today - the kind that gives corporations the power to sue over lost profits due to government regulations, for example. GATT and NAFTA were enormously different from anything which went before, and while the negotiations started before Clinton took office, he sure blew the horn about them enough. I cut my political teeth on opposition to both - they were not just the same old trade agreements at all.
posted by Frowner at 8:18 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 8:18 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
“Just hours before an expected Thursday vote in the House, congressional Republicans are considering massive changes to insurance coverage without even a basic idea of what those changes would mean,” the Huffington Post reports.
So, I teach a class tomorrow, and my students have a problem set due, which was made available for them to work on 2 weeks ago. I am just now this evening getting questions from some of them which make it clear that they are looking at the problem set for the first time today.
In my students' defense: this isn't their full-time job, they don't have full-time staffs to help them with their work, and they are, on average, about 20 years old without highly honed time-management skills. I might roll my eyes at their lack of foresight, but I don't feel the need to grab them by the shoulders and ask, "why the fuck is this only coming up NOW?"
But the Republicans in Congress took on this assignment SEVEN YEARS AGO. One day before the paper's due, and they're still calling up with questions like, "what's this individual mandate do and what will happen if we change it up?"
(Hey, guys, I hear the Democrats are really good at healthcare. Maybe if you ask them nicely they'll let you copy their work)
posted by jackbishop at 8:18 PM on March 22, 2017 [80 favorites]
So, I teach a class tomorrow, and my students have a problem set due, which was made available for them to work on 2 weeks ago. I am just now this evening getting questions from some of them which make it clear that they are looking at the problem set for the first time today.
In my students' defense: this isn't their full-time job, they don't have full-time staffs to help them with their work, and they are, on average, about 20 years old without highly honed time-management skills. I might roll my eyes at their lack of foresight, but I don't feel the need to grab them by the shoulders and ask, "why the fuck is this only coming up NOW?"
But the Republicans in Congress took on this assignment SEVEN YEARS AGO. One day before the paper's due, and they're still calling up with questions like, "what's this individual mandate do and what will happen if we change it up?"
(Hey, guys, I hear the Democrats are really good at healthcare. Maybe if you ask them nicely they'll let you copy their work)
posted by jackbishop at 8:18 PM on March 22, 2017 [80 favorites]
If Republicans could be trusted, this wouldn't be the worst deal to consider. They can't. They're utterly untrustworthy, and should be expected to go back on any "deal" made on any subject, much less eternal control of the Court.
2nding this. As evidence, I present the GOP's clear and unblinking support of ongoing treason at the highest level of government. If they're okay with that, they're okay with anything.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:19 PM on March 22, 2017 [38 favorites]
2nding this. As evidence, I present the GOP's clear and unblinking support of ongoing treason at the highest level of government. If they're okay with that, they're okay with anything.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:19 PM on March 22, 2017 [38 favorites]
Now, they're talking about stripping the essential health benefits,
That extends the pain to the millions and millions and millions of Americans who get their healthcare via their employers. If that's the deal being struck, they better vote fast and run away even faster.
posted by notyou at 8:23 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
That extends the pain to the millions and millions and millions of Americans who get their healthcare via their employers. If that's the deal being struck, they better vote fast and run away even faster.
posted by notyou at 8:23 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
Clearly the stripping of those regulations cannot be passed with reconciliation. So there must be something to to theory that Ryan wants this thing to die to a filibuster in the Senate.
If Democrats had balls/ovaries of steel they would let it clear cloture and have it voted down. But I suppose you can't play chicken with people's lives if you're a Democrat. If you're a Republican it's par for the course.
posted by Justinian at 8:26 PM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
If Democrats had balls/ovaries of steel they would let it clear cloture and have it voted down. But I suppose you can't play chicken with people's lives if you're a Democrat. If you're a Republican it's par for the course.
posted by Justinian at 8:26 PM on March 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
Freedom caucus member: "astonished by how in over his head Trump is"
We have now reached the point in society where journalism consists of "get a bunch of text messages from an anonymous congressional source, take a screenshot, chop off the bit with their name at the top, and tweet it out." Cool.
posted by zachlipton at 8:27 PM on March 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
We have now reached the point in society where journalism consists of "get a bunch of text messages from an anonymous congressional source, take a screenshot, chop off the bit with their name at the top, and tweet it out." Cool.
posted by zachlipton at 8:27 PM on March 22, 2017 [21 favorites]
Not sure how that's much different than writing it out to be:
WASHINGTON - According to an conservative Congressman who wishes to remain anonymous....
posted by Chrysostom at 8:30 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
WASHINGTON - According to an conservative Congressman who wishes to remain anonymous....
posted by Chrysostom at 8:30 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
We have now reached the point in society where journalism consists of "get a bunch of text messages from an anonymous congressional source, take a screenshot, chop off the bit with their name at the top, and tweet it out." Cool.
No, that's not REAL journalism. Real Journalism is when someone collects three of those tweets and publishes an article called "Internet Seethes with Outrage over Topic X" with screenshots of those three tweets as evidence.
posted by mmoncur at 8:31 PM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
No, that's not REAL journalism. Real Journalism is when someone collects three of those tweets and publishes an article called "Internet Seethes with Outrage over Topic X" with screenshots of those three tweets as evidence.
posted by mmoncur at 8:31 PM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Now, they're talking about stripping the essential health benefits, the thing in the law that says that something called "health insurance" actually has to pay for stuff like prescription drugs and pregnancy and mental health treatment instead of just buying you a box of band-aids and a sympathy card when you get sick. That might get more of the Freedom Caucus folks on board (because they get to cut a regulation), but it's scaring off more reps from the left.
Nah. The Freedom (to die in a ditch) Caucus folks love it because it makes insurance cheaper and increases access so that those that make the choice to have insurance will have it. The fact that said insurance is fucking useless is immaterial when you have freedom (to die in a ditch)!
posted by Talez at 8:35 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Nah. The Freedom (to die in a ditch) Caucus folks love it because it makes insurance cheaper and increases access so that those that make the choice to have insurance will have it. The fact that said insurance is fucking useless is immaterial when you have freedom (to die in a ditch)!
posted by Talez at 8:35 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
This was illegal in the US until 2010, which was when Citzens United was decided.
Nah. This was utterly commonplace before 2010, except that the ads had to avoid the magic word "vote" and had to pretend to be an ad about issues. This was why there were all those ads that boiled down to "John Surname boils puppies alive, hates America, and personally kicked your most beloved grandma right in the teeth. Call him and tell him what you think!"
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:39 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Nah. This was utterly commonplace before 2010, except that the ads had to avoid the magic word "vote" and had to pretend to be an ad about issues. This was why there were all those ads that boiled down to "John Surname boils puppies alive, hates America, and personally kicked your most beloved grandma right in the teeth. Call him and tell him what you think!"
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:39 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think Ryan Lizza's not the best person to level the lazy / fake journalism charge at. That was just a real journalist sending out a tweet in the course of doing real journalism.
posted by Dr. Send at 8:42 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Dr. Send at 8:42 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
I see that the Opinion pages have taken to open mockery now.
Dana Milbank, WaPo: Lincoln was a Republican, slavery is bad — and more discoveries by President Obvious
... Trump claims that “a lot of people don’t know” that U.S. taxes are the world’s highest and that “nobody knows” the U.S. murder rate is the highest in 45 years. For good reason: Those things aren’t true.
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:49 PM on March 22, 2017 [31 favorites]
Dana Milbank, WaPo: Lincoln was a Republican, slavery is bad — and more discoveries by President Obvious
... Trump claims that “a lot of people don’t know” that U.S. taxes are the world’s highest and that “nobody knows” the U.S. murder rate is the highest in 45 years. For good reason: Those things aren’t true.
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:49 PM on March 22, 2017 [31 favorites]
Led by Mike Pence who dreams of a Christian theocracy, rejects the separation of church and state, and places his Christian faith above the U.S. Constitution. Pence describes himself as “a Christian, a conservative, and a Republican, in that order”. He refuses to accept Evolution, is rabidly anti-gay, believes abortion should be criminalized, and that Global Warming is a hoax.
I would have much preferred the potato.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:52 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
I would have much preferred the potato.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:52 PM on March 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think Ryan Lizza's not the best person to level the lazy / fake journalism charge at. That was just a real journalist sending out a tweet in the course of doing real journalism.
It wasn't a "lazy / fake journalism charge" at all so much as wonder that this is now journalism. I don't think it's a bad thing; it got the information out quickly and clearly. It's just unusual.
posted by zachlipton at 8:52 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
It wasn't a "lazy / fake journalism charge" at all so much as wonder that this is now journalism. I don't think it's a bad thing; it got the information out quickly and clearly. It's just unusual.
posted by zachlipton at 8:52 PM on March 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
From Hill reporter Chad Pergram*:
*I used to live next door to Pergram, AMA.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:56 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Rules cmte made ZERO amdts in order & did not report a rule to handle the health care bill. No updated text on potential changes.Clearly, no one knows WTF the actual bill would be. I still have a hard time seeing how you can satisfy the whole House GOP caucus, let alone the Senate.
=
If GOP has the votes on health care bill, it will get Rules Cmte to meet Thurs/later & make provisions in order which get the votes to pass
=
House GOPers meet in a conference session to discuss health care bill at 9 am et Thursday
=
Unclear what final deal could be for health care bill. No changes to mgr's amdnt or updated legislative text offered
*I used to live next door to Pergram, AMA.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:56 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Guess they're going to have to vote for the bill in order to read it.
posted by Justinian at 8:57 PM on March 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 8:57 PM on March 22, 2017 [16 favorites]
Perhaps the future of journalism is a kind of notary function certifying that an anonymous repudiable message sent by Sen. Jane Smith (R) is indeed from "a Senator," "a Republican Senator," "a female Senator," "a female Republican in Congress," "a person familiar with the matter," "a person close to Jane Smith," or such, as circumstances may require.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 8:58 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 8:58 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Dana Milbank, WaPo: Lincoln was a Republican, slavery is bad — and more discoveries by President Obvious
Given who makes up his base, "slavery is bad" is actually kind of a radical statement for him.
posted by indubitable at 8:58 PM on March 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
Given who makes up his base, "slavery is bad" is actually kind of a radical statement for him.
posted by indubitable at 8:58 PM on March 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
What's that? Oh yes, I'm reading. I'm paying full attention to the thread.
*whistles innocently, adds 'Dogs in Space' to shopping cart*
posted by medusa at 9:04 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
*whistles innocently, adds 'Dogs in Space' to shopping cart*
posted by medusa at 9:04 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
The Diaper Don article sounds fun until you read the part about how The Donald would just walk up to his son and belt him one in the face in public. Jeebus. As a famous person, you should know that's going to get around and you don't care?
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:09 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:09 PM on March 22, 2017 [9 favorites]
Clearly the stripping of those regulations cannot be passed with reconciliation.
McConnell can overrule the parliamentarian with 50 votes.
I think you vastly underestimate the momentum to pass this bill, come hell or high water.
posted by JackFlash at 9:14 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
McConnell can overrule the parliamentarian with 50 votes.
I think you vastly underestimate the momentum to pass this bill, come hell or high water.
posted by JackFlash at 9:14 PM on March 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
As a famous person, you should know that's going to get around and you don't care?
This just sweetens the pot
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:34 PM on March 22, 2017
This just sweetens the pot
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:34 PM on March 22, 2017
Anybody who wants to find themselves trapped in a funhouse hall of gilded mirrors made of frozen piss should watch Roger Stone's video that Infowars released a couple hours ago. Pure madness. Stone spends half the time "defending" himself in the most suspicious ways possible and the other half of the time hawking Infowars products (his wife is particularly fond of their toothpaste). We are ruled by a fractal clusterfuck of conmen, hucksters and lunatics.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:42 PM on March 22, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:42 PM on March 22, 2017 [29 favorites]
This is a good explainer for Rebub fuckery on the health bill. This describes some of the major last minute tweaks and their horribleness better than the source article imo.
Republicans may gut an overlooked provision of Obamacare — and disrupt health insurance
posted by futz at 9:52 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Republicans may gut an overlooked provision of Obamacare — and disrupt health insurance
posted by futz at 9:52 PM on March 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
But having served on the staff of a legislator is relevant expertise, and I think it's worth at least taking the informed opinion of someone who has had that experience into account, rather than dismissing it.
The conversation has moved on, but just for the record, I've never served as a staffer in a legislative office. I am a member of a nonpartisan legislative service agency for my state's legislature. While I believe my employment has given me relevant experience, I would like to avoid appearing to speak for my employer, so anyone wondering why they should give my words any credence can MeMail me. Apologies for the interruption. Back to our regularly-scheduled meltdown...
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:55 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
The conversation has moved on, but just for the record, I've never served as a staffer in a legislative office. I am a member of a nonpartisan legislative service agency for my state's legislature. While I believe my employment has given me relevant experience, I would like to avoid appearing to speak for my employer, so anyone wondering why they should give my words any credence can MeMail me. Apologies for the interruption. Back to our regularly-scheduled meltdown...
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:55 PM on March 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
McConnell can overrule the parliamentarian with 50 votes.
I think you vastly underestimate the momentum to pass this bill, come hell or high water.
The main goal of this piece of shit legislation is not to provide anything resembling healthcare, it is to repeal the tax on high income earners that was part of Obamacare without too much fallout. The Rs have shown stunningly in this election that the propaganda botnet voters are more numerous than they expected, which means they can obey their true constituents -- far right billionaires.
posted by benzenedream at 10:02 PM on March 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
is nunes likely to face censure or loss of his committee seat over this, or is it another thing that would be a firing offense except the republicans won't do anything about it
posted by murphy slaw at 10:13 PM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 10:13 PM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Rude Pundit: Judge Neil Gorsuch Is a Dick
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:17 PM on March 22, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:17 PM on March 22, 2017 [23 favorites]
I can honestly see both sides of a potential filibuster deal, but primarily I think the Dems need to play for as much time as possible for everything in front of Congress.
Given today's revelations about the Trump campaign, I think stalling until things get worse for the GOP is the best bet. At some point, if the presidency is in real trouble, it would be easier to put appointments aside until someone new is in charge.
I mean, that's optimistic, but playing "who knows what can happen in a couple weeks" would seem to be a safe bet right now.
posted by threeturtles at 10:18 PM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Given today's revelations about the Trump campaign, I think stalling until things get worse for the GOP is the best bet. At some point, if the presidency is in real trouble, it would be easier to put appointments aside until someone new is in charge.
I mean, that's optimistic, but playing "who knows what can happen in a couple weeks" would seem to be a safe bet right now.
posted by threeturtles at 10:18 PM on March 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Right now, everything tastes like polonium to Paul Manafort. (SLTwitter)
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:42 PM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:42 PM on March 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Check it, why did Nunes rush to brief Trump?
If Nunes wanted to sabotage the investigation, why not do it like, over a burner cell phone.
Or is this Nunes just basically blowing up the investigation because of what it would find and gambling with the idea that there won't be a response?
Or is Nunes blowing up the investigation because somebody threatened to poop on his car or something.
posted by angrycat at 10:57 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
If Nunes wanted to sabotage the investigation, why not do it like, over a burner cell phone.
Or is this Nunes just basically blowing up the investigation because of what it would find and gambling with the idea that there won't be a response?
Or is Nunes blowing up the investigation because somebody threatened to poop on his car or something.
posted by angrycat at 10:57 PM on March 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trump's Stasi are upping the stakes. Federal staffers panicked by conservative media attacks. A spate of stories in Breitbart and other outlets have singled out individual career employees, questioning their loyalty to Trump.
posted by scalefree at 11:34 PM on March 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 11:34 PM on March 22, 2017 [20 favorites]
From the Graydon Carter comment linked above:
The thing is, if Trump has made any sort of arrangement with the Russians—Kremlin, oligarchs, F.S.B., Mob, or any combination of the four—to drop the Obama-era sanctions in return for past favors, the hoo-ha surrounding his Russian connections now makes that almost impossible to deliver. Whatever support he has received from the Russians over the years presumably came with promises of a payback. If Trump can’t follow through on this, he might be in serious trouble.
I don't believe this; for Putin it's fine enough that Trump has already dismantled all respect for the Presidency. But it is fun to contemplate.
posted by mumimor at 12:13 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
The thing is, if Trump has made any sort of arrangement with the Russians—Kremlin, oligarchs, F.S.B., Mob, or any combination of the four—to drop the Obama-era sanctions in return for past favors, the hoo-ha surrounding his Russian connections now makes that almost impossible to deliver. Whatever support he has received from the Russians over the years presumably came with promises of a payback. If Trump can’t follow through on this, he might be in serious trouble.
I don't believe this; for Putin it's fine enough that Trump has already dismantled all respect for the Presidency. But it is fun to contemplate.
posted by mumimor at 12:13 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
The tactic being suggested here is to call and say that you're from that rep's constituency, not to call and say "Hey, I'm never going to live anywhere near your shitty state, but...".
Little late to this discussion and I don't know how it works in the USA, but here in the UK it would be trivial for my representatives to tap my name into a computer and check the electoral register to see if I am actually a constituent whilst I am on the phone to them, and I would be flabbergasted if they don't actually do this.
posted by walrus at 12:38 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Little late to this discussion and I don't know how it works in the USA, but here in the UK it would be trivial for my representatives to tap my name into a computer and check the electoral register to see if I am actually a constituent whilst I am on the phone to them, and I would be flabbergasted if they don't actually do this.
posted by walrus at 12:38 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
UK MP's have access to the full electoral register? (as opposed to the opt-out "editted" one).
posted by sourcejedi at 1:52 AM on March 23, 2017
posted by sourcejedi at 1:52 AM on March 23, 2017
in the UK it would be trivial for my representatives to tap my name into a computer and check the electoral register to see if I am actually a constituent
If MOCs (well, their staffs) bothered to do this for the quick "Vote for/against X" calls, the GOP would already be trumpeting exactly how many non-constituent calls they get from paid protestors and how they're trying to hijack democracy. They're willing to use single cases (that may or may not even be true) to complain about anything.
posted by Etrigan at 2:08 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
If MOCs (well, their staffs) bothered to do this for the quick "Vote for/against X" calls, the GOP would already be trumpeting exactly how many non-constituent calls they get from paid protestors and how they're trying to hijack democracy. They're willing to use single cases (that may or may not even be true) to complain about anything.
posted by Etrigan at 2:08 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
UK MP's have access to the full electoral register? (as opposed to the opt-out "editted" one).
Anyone has access to the full register, provided they visit their local electoral registration office. AFAIK the key thing stopping the whole register being used for nefarious or spammy purposes is that it's a physical document in an office with staff – you can't just roll up and start scraping data.
Something I learned while I double-checked this: it is possible to be anonymously registered, but it requires a valid reason to do this.
posted by mushhushshu at 3:29 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Anyone has access to the full register, provided they visit their local electoral registration office. AFAIK the key thing stopping the whole register being used for nefarious or spammy purposes is that it's a physical document in an office with staff – you can't just roll up and start scraping data.
Something I learned while I double-checked this: it is possible to be anonymously registered, but it requires a valid reason to do this.
posted by mushhushshu at 3:29 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Keep it classy you arseholes.
Donald Trump Jr is facing a backlash for criticizing London mayor Sadiq Khan with a scornful tweet sent hours after an attack at the Houses of Parliament left four dead, including a police officer.
posted by adamvasco at 3:45 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Donald Trump Jr is facing a backlash for criticizing London mayor Sadiq Khan with a scornful tweet sent hours after an attack at the Houses of Parliament left four dead, including a police officer.
posted by adamvasco at 3:45 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Samantha Bee goes to fucking town on racist trash fake-PhD "Dr." Sebastian L. v. Gorka. Nails him to the wall.
posted by spitbull at 3:52 AM on March 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 3:52 AM on March 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
his wife is particularly fond of their toothpaste
dafuq?
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:25 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
dafuq?
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:25 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
As a famous person, you should know that's going to get around and you don't care?
People with no capacity to feel shame can do whatever the fuck they want, this verse the same as all previous and future verses. You know the "when you're famous they just let you do it" line? That's figleaf over his actual state of being: when you have no capacity for empathy or a conscience, it doesn't matter one way or the other. He wouldn't know someone "letting" him do something if he tripped over it. He just takes and moves on literally without a second thought.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:31 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
People with no capacity to feel shame can do whatever the fuck they want, this verse the same as all previous and future verses. You know the "when you're famous they just let you do it" line? That's figleaf over his actual state of being: when you have no capacity for empathy or a conscience, it doesn't matter one way or the other. He wouldn't know someone "letting" him do something if he tripped over it. He just takes and moves on literally without a second thought.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:31 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Gold curtains will always be nauseating. And frankly, we would not be here without Bill's commitment to ending welfare as we know it and starting trade agreements as we know them, not to mention skeeving on women, so it's appropriate enough.
We would not have RBG and Breyer without Bill. And without them we don't have gay marriage, we don't have Roe, we don't have Obamacare to fight for today. It's easy in retrospect to condemn the Clinton Third Way, but in 1992 Dems had lost 5 of 6 presidential elections by YUUGE landslides. Dems averaged just 76 EVs during those losses. And Carter just barely won - change 3,687 votes in Hawaii and 5,559 votes in Ohio and Ford wins - and that was after impeachment, pardoning, and Vietnam. The nation was much more conservative then and the left/liberal wing of the Democratic Party had not just been unable to win, they had been crushed. Bill was far from perfect, but he was far better than 8 years of more Republicans.
posted by chris24 at 4:44 AM on March 23, 2017 [78 favorites]
We would not have RBG and Breyer without Bill. And without them we don't have gay marriage, we don't have Roe, we don't have Obamacare to fight for today. It's easy in retrospect to condemn the Clinton Third Way, but in 1992 Dems had lost 5 of 6 presidential elections by YUUGE landslides. Dems averaged just 76 EVs during those losses. And Carter just barely won - change 3,687 votes in Hawaii and 5,559 votes in Ohio and Ford wins - and that was after impeachment, pardoning, and Vietnam. The nation was much more conservative then and the left/liberal wing of the Democratic Party had not just been unable to win, they had been crushed. Bill was far from perfect, but he was far better than 8 years of more Republicans.
posted by chris24 at 4:44 AM on March 23, 2017 [78 favorites]
UK MP's have access to the full electoral register? (as opposed to the opt-out "editted" one).
There are websites which allow anyone to search for people in it ...
posted by walrus at 4:45 AM on March 23, 2017
There are websites which allow anyone to search for people in it ...
posted by walrus at 4:45 AM on March 23, 2017
futz: "This is a good explainer for Rebub fuckery on the health bill. This describes some of the major last minute tweaks and their horribleness better than the source article imo.
Republicans may gut an overlooked provision of Obamacare — and disrupt health insurance"
posted by octothorpe at 4:53 AM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
Republicans may gut an overlooked provision of Obamacare — and disrupt health insurance"
Obamacare names 10 EHBs that all health plans must cover, and they're not exactly bells and whistles. The first benefit deemed essential is outpatient care — that is, doctor's visits. The second is visits to the emergency room. The third is hospitalization.So according to the Freedom Coalition, Obama took away our freedom to he able to buy insurance that covers nothing?
posted by octothorpe at 4:53 AM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
So according to the Freedom Coalition, Obama took away our freedom to he able to buy insurance that covers nothing?
Yes and I believe that's what created the whole "if you like your insurance you can keep it" debacle. They hadn't counted on so many people actually liking their old insurance that covered nothing, because you couldn't keep a plan like that and people were pissed.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:01 AM on March 23, 2017 [31 favorites]
Yes and I believe that's what created the whole "if you like your insurance you can keep it" debacle. They hadn't counted on so many people actually liking their old insurance that covered nothing, because you couldn't keep a plan like that and people were pissed.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:01 AM on March 23, 2017 [31 favorites]
I just read the new Time magazine interview with DJT. It's stunning. It's like visiting a nursing home and talking to a guy that once had a brief moment of glory before flaming out. Every lie he ever told is retold in this interview-- including that 3 million people voted illegally, only now it's "some people say" the number is larger and he is going to "form a committee to look into it."
He has learned nothing, he has changed his mind on nothing. He'll be re telling these same old tired lies on his deathbed.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:07 AM on March 23, 2017 [57 favorites]
He has learned nothing, he has changed his mind on nothing. He'll be re telling these same old tired lies on his deathbed.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:07 AM on March 23, 2017 [57 favorites]
That Time interview was one of the fucking scariest things I've read
posted by angrycat at 5:11 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 5:11 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
It's like visiting a nursing home and talking to a guy that once had a brief moment of glory before flaming out.
"It was the day of the big race; every day of my life leading to this moment. There were thousands of us, all competing for a single prize, but I beat them all! I fertilized that egg!"
posted by leotrotsky at 5:17 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
"It was the day of the big race; every day of my life leading to this moment. There were thousands of us, all competing for a single prize, but I beat them all! I fertilized that egg!"
posted by leotrotsky at 5:17 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
"Hey look, in the mean time, I guess, I can’t be doing so badly, because I’m president, and you’re not. You know. Say hello to everybody OK?" — the TIME interview
posted by panic at 5:18 AM on March 23, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by panic at 5:18 AM on March 23, 2017 [41 favorites]
He never figured out that Chevy Chase was doing that line satirically, huh?
I think most humor requires a level of cognition that's simply beyond him.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:23 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think most humor requires a level of cognition that's simply beyond him.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:23 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yes and I believe that's what created the whole "if you like your insurance you can keep it" debacle. They hadn't counted on so many people actually liking their old insurance that covered nothing, because you couldn't keep a plan like that and people were pissed.
This is what is so confusing when seen from abroad. The strangest part of following Metafilter through the years (and I was lurking way before I signed up), has been to read all of the asks about banal medical problems where Americans were hesitant to go to a doctor because their insurance didn't cover. For ages, I didn't get it, and I think for many privileged Americans it is equally exotic. When I lived in the US, I had full coverage payed for buy the Danish State. I had know idea how privileged this was, because that was what I was used to. I wonder how many Congress members have ever personally experienced life without full coverage? On both sides..
posted by mumimor at 5:24 AM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
This is what is so confusing when seen from abroad. The strangest part of following Metafilter through the years (and I was lurking way before I signed up), has been to read all of the asks about banal medical problems where Americans were hesitant to go to a doctor because their insurance didn't cover. For ages, I didn't get it, and I think for many privileged Americans it is equally exotic. When I lived in the US, I had full coverage payed for buy the Danish State. I had know idea how privileged this was, because that was what I was used to. I wonder how many Congress members have ever personally experienced life without full coverage? On both sides..
posted by mumimor at 5:24 AM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
"Hey look, in the mean time, I guess, I can’t be doing so badly, because I’m president, and you’re not. You know. Say hello to everybody OK?"
Holy shit. I was about to complain that you forgot to tag that one with a "fake" label. Then I went and looked at the interview. Words fail.
posted by holborne at 5:24 AM on March 23, 2017 [43 favorites]
Holy shit. I was about to complain that you forgot to tag that one with a "fake" label. Then I went and looked at the interview. Words fail.
posted by holborne at 5:24 AM on March 23, 2017 [43 favorites]
"Hey look, in the mean time, I guess, I can’t be doing so badly, because I’m president, and you’re not.
Give it time, buddy.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:24 AM on March 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
Give it time, buddy.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:24 AM on March 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
Now again, it is in quotes. That means surveillance and various other things.
:/ OK. Words are difficult. I appreciate the transcript.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:29 AM on March 23, 2017
:/ OK. Words are difficult. I appreciate the transcript.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:29 AM on March 23, 2017
Holy shit that Time interview. The Onion wouldn't write him as so incoherent. I am not exaggerating.
posted by Shutter at 5:30 AM on March 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Shutter at 5:30 AM on March 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
So, in the House of Representatives, there's a 2-part process for voting on legislation. The Rules Committee will report out a "rule", which is a resolution that sets the rules for considering the bill itself, usually later that day. A "closed rule" will limit debate to 1-2 hours per side, with no amendments. More likely is a rule that will allow 1-2 amendments, which are identified in the resolution. Nothing ever gets reported out on an "open rule", because that takes too long.
The rule will be debated and voted on, on the floor of the House, but it has to be written and reported out first. If there's a compromise amendment, they'll put it in the rule. The "manager's amendment" will likely be in the rule already, unless it gets changed to incorporate the compromise. Sometimes there's a minority substitute amendment that's also in the rule, but will of course get voted down on the floor.
It's also traditional for the minority party to complain on the floor that the rule is too restrictive.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:33 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
The rule will be debated and voted on, on the floor of the House, but it has to be written and reported out first. If there's a compromise amendment, they'll put it in the rule. The "manager's amendment" will likely be in the rule already, unless it gets changed to incorporate the compromise. Sometimes there's a minority substitute amendment that's also in the rule, but will of course get voted down on the floor.
It's also traditional for the minority party to complain on the floor that the rule is too restrictive.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:33 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump
Just watched the totally biased and fake news reports of the so-called Russia story on NBC and ABC. Such dishonesty!
I guess Thursdays are the handler's day off.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:35 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Just watched the totally biased and fake news reports of the so-called Russia story on NBC and ABC. Such dishonesty!
I guess Thursdays are the handler's day off.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:35 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Somebody give Trump a list of all the Stig "Some say" quotes from Top Gear.
"Some say that his heart ticks like a watch, and that he’s confused by stairs."
"Some say that he’s terrified of ducks, and that there’s an airport in Russia named after him."
"Some say that his politics are terrifying, and that he once punched a horse to the ground."
"Some say he can swim 7 lengths underwater, and he has webbed buttocks."
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:35 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
"Some say that his heart ticks like a watch, and that he’s confused by stairs."
"Some say that he’s terrified of ducks, and that there’s an airport in Russia named after him."
"Some say that his politics are terrifying, and that he once punched a horse to the ground."
"Some say he can swim 7 lengths underwater, and he has webbed buttocks."
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:35 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
That Time interview.. it swallowed up all the evens in the universe like it was a black hole of idiocy
posted by mumimor at 5:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 5:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
This is what is so confusing when seen from abroad.
One thing to keep in mind about the crappy plans: they were cheap. People who were on these cheap, crappy plans got one hell of a shock after the ACA went into effect because suddenly a cheap, crappy plan was no longer on the menu. They either had to have no health insurance at all (and pay a penalty if they made above a certain income) or they had to pony up for the more expensive, and better, health insurance (and there's a legit problem in the ACA for middle-income people who make too much to get much of subsidy but don't make enough to actually afford $1400/month health insurance).
Now, you would think that the response to this would be a clamoring for single payer, but the other thing to keep in mind is that most Americans are not aware that universal single payer is a thing. (See the "Keep the government out of my Medicare!" signs from 2009.) Our politicians very scrupulously avoid talking about it, except for the right wingnuts who tell everyone that yes, other countries have universal health care and in each and every one of those countries without exception it's a DISASTER and TERRIBLE and EVERYONE HATES IT and YOU WILL WAIT TEN THOUSAND YEARS FOR CANCER TREATMENT so our system where you have to beg an insurance company to treat your cancer and then have to declare bankrupty because of it is better because at least you have freedom or something something.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:41 AM on March 23, 2017 [57 favorites]
One thing to keep in mind about the crappy plans: they were cheap. People who were on these cheap, crappy plans got one hell of a shock after the ACA went into effect because suddenly a cheap, crappy plan was no longer on the menu. They either had to have no health insurance at all (and pay a penalty if they made above a certain income) or they had to pony up for the more expensive, and better, health insurance (and there's a legit problem in the ACA for middle-income people who make too much to get much of subsidy but don't make enough to actually afford $1400/month health insurance).
Now, you would think that the response to this would be a clamoring for single payer, but the other thing to keep in mind is that most Americans are not aware that universal single payer is a thing. (See the "Keep the government out of my Medicare!" signs from 2009.) Our politicians very scrupulously avoid talking about it, except for the right wingnuts who tell everyone that yes, other countries have universal health care and in each and every one of those countries without exception it's a DISASTER and TERRIBLE and EVERYONE HATES IT and YOU WILL WAIT TEN THOUSAND YEARS FOR CANCER TREATMENT so our system where you have to beg an insurance company to treat your cancer and then have to declare bankrupty because of it is better because at least you have freedom or something something.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:41 AM on March 23, 2017 [57 favorites]
Or as my diabetes-having wingnut relation said before I purged him from my Facebook, "I'd rather live on my stumps than die on my knees."
I'm still trying to parse that one out.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:46 AM on March 23, 2017 [34 favorites]
I'm still trying to parse that one out.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:46 AM on March 23, 2017 [34 favorites]
Only in America is "here, you can have this really nice thing for free" considered servitude.
We are a sick, broken culture.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:51 AM on March 23, 2017 [52 favorites]
We are a sick, broken culture.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:51 AM on March 23, 2017 [52 favorites]
don't make enough to actually afford $1400/month health insurance
But, but wha? $1400 is almost what I pay into all my taxes every month, which pay for healthcare, public schools, free universities, subsidized pre-school care, (a small) pension for everyone, infrastructure, military, arts, well and all the other stuff like young people getting their insurance paid when they go to study in the US.
To be fair, we have higher VATs than most countries, too.
posted by mumimor at 5:54 AM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
But, but wha? $1400 is almost what I pay into all my taxes every month, which pay for healthcare, public schools, free universities, subsidized pre-school care, (a small) pension for everyone, infrastructure, military, arts, well and all the other stuff like young people getting their insurance paid when they go to study in the US.
To be fair, we have higher VATs than most countries, too.
posted by mumimor at 5:54 AM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
I just kind of pulled that number out of my ass, but it is in fact what my family policy costs--I just don't pay all of it because it's through my employer. They pay $1000/month, I pay $400 (out of my paycheck).
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:59 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:59 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
But, but wha?
Well, that's the thing about a culture of conspicuous consumption. Very often, you must pay more (a lot more) to get less. This is by design.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:02 AM on March 23, 2017
Well, that's the thing about a culture of conspicuous consumption. Very often, you must pay more (a lot more) to get less. This is by design.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:02 AM on March 23, 2017
But, but wha? $1400 is almost what I pay into all my taxes every month, which pay for healthcare, public schools, free universities, subsidized pre-school care, (a small) pension for everyone, infrastructure, military, arts, well and all the other stuff like young people getting their insurance paid when they go to study in the US.Ah, yes, but what do you contribute to the shareholders of the for-profit companies that make money out of every aspect of the US healthcare system? Why are you stiffing the shareholders, mumimor?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:03 AM on March 23, 2017 [32 favorites]
Because I'm president and you're not
He's gonna live to eat those words. There are things worse than being publicly humiliated on the global media stage for a needy, inadequate narcissist, but they all involve implements of torture or really aggressive tumors.
posted by spitbull at 6:08 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
He's gonna live to eat those words. There are things worse than being publicly humiliated on the global media stage for a needy, inadequate narcissist, but they all involve implements of torture or really aggressive tumors.
posted by spitbull at 6:08 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
It also should be noted that my employer-provided insurance is waaaaay better coverage than anything you're going to get on the private insurance market. I have no deductibles, no out of pocket, and no coinsurance. I pay $40/$60 (depending on whether it's a primary care doc or specialist) copays at the point of service and that's it.
I just priced out a private plan (without going through healthcare.gov because I am fairly certain I make too much to qualify for any subsidy) and for the best plan (the one most like the one I currently have, through the same insurer) it's $1343.11/month to cover me, my husband and our son. So, I wasn't that far off.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:11 AM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
I just priced out a private plan (without going through healthcare.gov because I am fairly certain I make too much to qualify for any subsidy) and for the best plan (the one most like the one I currently have, through the same insurer) it's $1343.11/month to cover me, my husband and our son. So, I wasn't that far off.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:11 AM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
"I'd rather live on my stumps than die on my knees."
Fuck anesthesia amirite? FREEEEEEEEEEEDDDOOOMMMMM!!
Gonna be a heck of a march on Washington.
posted by spitbull at 6:12 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Fuck anesthesia amirite? FREEEEEEEEEEEDDDOOOMMMMM!!
Gonna be a heck of a march on Washington.
posted by spitbull at 6:12 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
George Bush's White House ethics lawyer writing in reference to the FBI investigation of Trump & Co and its expansion to Breitbart and Infowars:
"FBI uncovering evidence of treason. There is no other word for it."
posted by chris24 at 6:12 AM on March 23, 2017 [52 favorites]
"FBI uncovering evidence of treason. There is no other word for it."
posted by chris24 at 6:12 AM on March 23, 2017 [52 favorites]
"I'd rather live on my stumps than die on my knees."
I mean, the sad truth is that he's got those (crazed) options backwards. What he's fighting for is the right to DIE on his stumps vs living on his knees.
But I come from a socialist universal healthcare non-wasteland so what do I know.
posted by lydhre at 6:15 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I mean, the sad truth is that he's got those (crazed) options backwards. What he's fighting for is the right to DIE on his stumps vs living on his knees.
But I come from a socialist universal healthcare non-wasteland so what do I know.
posted by lydhre at 6:15 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
> "I'd rather live on my stumps than die on my knees."
LIVE FREE AND DIE
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:16 AM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
LIVE FREE AND DIE
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:16 AM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
Our insurance costs for 3 people, with a $5000 deductible per person , is $12,500 per year, our cost, the company picks up an equal amount. So, we owe up to $$15,000 before our insurance covers any costs, plus the premium, and then it only covers 80% until you get to some huge number, when 100% kicks in. So, we would need to spend almost 30k annually before our insurance does anything but negotiate provider rates.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:17 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:17 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
The song was right: Freedom isn't free (no, there's a hefty fuckin' fee).
Anyway, it looks like the House is working on a pre-rule, that will let them bring things up on the same day they come out from the Rules Committee. So they will be able to bring up the bill sometime between today and Monday, with some notice but not a full day.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:21 AM on March 23, 2017
Anyway, it looks like the House is working on a pre-rule, that will let them bring things up on the same day they come out from the Rules Committee. So they will be able to bring up the bill sometime between today and Monday, with some notice but not a full day.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:21 AM on March 23, 2017
A this point, the impetus of the terrorist in the U.K. has not been leaked formally or informally, but ISIS is claiming that the attack was inspired by them. That's a bit odd.
posted by Yowser at 6:25 AM on March 23, 2017
posted by Yowser at 6:25 AM on March 23, 2017
I've been reading U.S. health care discussions in MetaFilter threads for as long as I've been a member (coming up on my 13th anniversary!), and they never get any less horrifying. I pay "a lot"* in taxes up here in Canuckistan, but I don't have to worry about being bankrupted by medical bills or weigh how much pain I'm in against how much money I have or anything like that. But some of the money I pay in taxes goes to help people who don't pay as much into the pot as I do, so I guess our system is an intolerable tyranny that I should hate.
* "a lot" in this context means "a lot less than I would for health care if I lived in the U.S."
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:28 AM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
* "a lot" in this context means "a lot less than I would for health care if I lived in the U.S."
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:28 AM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
you know we're in the darkest possible timeline when nixon and dubya staffers be all "yo this is some crooked shit"
posted by entropicamericana at 6:29 AM on March 23, 2017 [83 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 6:29 AM on March 23, 2017 [83 favorites]
An Israeli teenager has been arrested for the Jewish community center bomb threats.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:34 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 6:34 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
I just want to point out, to pin down a frame of reference, that we are only a little more than 60 days into this administration and people are talking about treason with a straight face.
The 100 day recap is going to be a doozy.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [33 favorites]
The 100 day recap is going to be a doozy.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [33 favorites]
Honestly at this point I don't think Americans know what they want when it comes to health policy. Maybe this is the conflagration that will bring greater clarity once the fire is put out. I don't know. I think most Americans are just going on a "gut check" vague feeling that something is bad, but they don't know quite what and are just inserting whatever their own personal bugaboo is into that slot. It might be "government" or it might be "those people" or it might be "illegals" or it might be "politicians" or or or. Whatever it is they already despise, that's what's wrong with our health care system.
I actually think this is progress? Pre-ACA there was a "la la la everything is fine!!!" attitude. The debate and passage of ACA which resulted in a whole bunch of people suddenly realizing that everything wasn't fine before, and is marginally better now (but still not perfect) is actually a pretty big step for us.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:37 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
I actually think this is progress? Pre-ACA there was a "la la la everything is fine!!!" attitude. The debate and passage of ACA which resulted in a whole bunch of people suddenly realizing that everything wasn't fine before, and is marginally better now (but still not perfect) is actually a pretty big step for us.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:37 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Federal staffers panicked by conservative media attacks.
The idea that individual employees are being harassed in this way is just one more way these idiots are destroying any hope of our country retaining a professional civil service. It was already hard because people in government make less than private sector employees but now you have to worry about being the focus of a one-minute hate because it's a slow news day on neo-fascist dot com? Who wants that?
posted by winna at 6:37 AM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
The idea that individual employees are being harassed in this way is just one more way these idiots are destroying any hope of our country retaining a professional civil service. It was already hard because people in government make less than private sector employees but now you have to worry about being the focus of a one-minute hate because it's a slow news day on neo-fascist dot com? Who wants that?
posted by winna at 6:37 AM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
Federal employees make more than private sector employees here in Canada, when you take into account that we have real defined benefit pensions and cheap comprehensive health and wellbeing care. Is it not the same in the US?
posted by Yowser at 6:40 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 6:40 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Charles Blow, NY Times: "Birth of the Biggest Lie."
No act of this presidency — good or bad, beneficial or detrimental — can ever be considered without first contextualizing that this presidency itself was conceived in deception and is being incubated under an extraordinary lie.
The Trump presidency is a corruption that flows from corruption. It is damned by its own damned lies.
posted by spitbull at 6:41 AM on March 23, 2017 [44 favorites]
No act of this presidency — good or bad, beneficial or detrimental — can ever be considered without first contextualizing that this presidency itself was conceived in deception and is being incubated under an extraordinary lie.
The Trump presidency is a corruption that flows from corruption. It is damned by its own damned lies.
posted by spitbull at 6:41 AM on March 23, 2017 [44 favorites]
It was already hard because people in government make less than private sector employees
I hear this a lot and nobody ever points out that job stability, actual work-life balance, and the likelihood to be promoted without continually jumping between companies are also huge draws. Which does not contradict your larger point because whittling down the work force through attrition and attacks hurts all of those things too.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:43 AM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
I hear this a lot and nobody ever points out that job stability, actual work-life balance, and the likelihood to be promoted without continually jumping between companies are also huge draws. Which does not contradict your larger point because whittling down the work force through attrition and attacks hurts all of those things too.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 6:43 AM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Just a big picture thought. Folks, it's working. This president and his administration are already as delegitimized as any president has ever been. And do not fear his die hard cultist followers. While ugly and cruel, they are dwindling in number. They will not in the end comprise anything near a majority. But we need for them to exist in denial. That is what will make it impossible for the GOP to regroup once Trump crashes and burns, whether under a president Pence or in a future election. Indeed that dynamic is already playing out with health care.
Hubris always gets the same result. But these chuckleheads are incompetent, corrupt, and on the ropes.
We mostly need to keep them from starting a war. That's their big play when nothing is left. That's why it's so important to delegitimize him. When he wants that war he will need consensus from people who will fear his ambitions. Keep pushing.
posted by spitbull at 6:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [43 favorites]
Hubris always gets the same result. But these chuckleheads are incompetent, corrupt, and on the ropes.
We mostly need to keep them from starting a war. That's their big play when nothing is left. That's why it's so important to delegitimize him. When he wants that war he will need consensus from people who will fear his ambitions. Keep pushing.
posted by spitbull at 6:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [43 favorites]
Honestly at this point I don't think Americans know what they want when it comes to health policy.
It helps if you think of 30-odd percent of americans wanting "the country to stop existing" as a prerequisite for specific government policies.
"I'd rather live on my stumps than die on my knees."
E PLURIBUS STUMPUM
FROM MY COLD DEAD STUMPS
MOLON STUMPE
DON'T TREAD ON MY STUMP
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
It helps if you think of 30-odd percent of americans wanting "the country to stop existing" as a prerequisite for specific government policies.
"I'd rather live on my stumps than die on my knees."
E PLURIBUS STUMPUM
FROM MY COLD DEAD STUMPS
MOLON STUMPE
DON'T TREAD ON MY STUMP
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
I hear this a lot and nobody ever points out that job stability, actual work-life balance, and the likelihood to be promoted without continually jumping between companies are also huge draws. Which does not contradict your larger point because whittling down the work force through attrition and attacks hurts all of those things too.
No, those are definite points as well, although the furloughs had impacted those attractions too. I don't mean to imply that money is the only arbiter for job selection, just that anything that makes bright hard-working people less inclined to serve the public good are bad things.
posted by winna at 6:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
No, those are definite points as well, although the furloughs had impacted those attractions too. I don't mean to imply that money is the only arbiter for job selection, just that anything that makes bright hard-working people less inclined to serve the public good are bad things.
posted by winna at 6:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Donald Trump made 14 false claims in his Time interview on the subject of whether he makes false claims. [list]
posted by chris24 at 6:50 AM on March 23, 2017 [58 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 6:50 AM on March 23, 2017 [58 favorites]
Just a big picture thought. Folks, it's working. This president and his administration are already as delegitimized as any president has ever been.
I made a bet with a coworker yesterday that in the next five years, there will be a case before the Supreme Court on whether any action of the Trump Administration should be considered legally binding.
posted by Etrigan at 6:52 AM on March 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
I made a bet with a coworker yesterday that in the next five years, there will be a case before the Supreme Court on whether any action of the Trump Administration should be considered legally binding.
posted by Etrigan at 6:52 AM on March 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
Whatever Daniel Dale gets paid, it's not enough.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:53 AM on March 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:53 AM on March 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
Charlie Dent (R, Pa.), from his Facebook: "After careful deliberation, I cannot support the bill and will oppose it. I believe this bill, in its current form, will lead to the loss of coverage and make insurances unaffordable for too many Americans, particularly for low-to-moderate income and older individuals."
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [36 favorites]
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [36 favorites]
My Senator (Casey-PA) is not supporting Gorsuch's nomination to SCOTUS.
He really has gotten religion this year. Glory be.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:59 AM on March 23, 2017 [57 favorites]
He really has gotten religion this year. Glory be.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:59 AM on March 23, 2017 [57 favorites]
"I guess I can’t be doing so badly, because I’m president, and you’re not. You know.”
Who knew I had one more forgotten even, lodged in a dark fold somewhere near my bile duct? Like a lost sock hiding behind the dryer.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:01 AM on March 23, 2017 [56 favorites]
Who knew I had one more forgotten even, lodged in a dark fold somewhere near my bile duct? Like a lost sock hiding behind the dryer.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:01 AM on March 23, 2017 [56 favorites]
I know. I never thought I'd be this proud of a pro-life Catholic democrat from Pennsylvania.
posted by joyceanmachine at 7:02 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by joyceanmachine at 7:02 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I am glad for Bob Casey's conversion, but he's also vulnerable in 2018, which is why it makes sense.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:08 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:08 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
I cannot finish the Time article. It's like reading Jasper Fforde without a brain.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:10 AM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 7:10 AM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
Putin critic Denis Voronenkov shot dead in Ukraine: Voronenkov and his wife, former Russian lawmaker Maria Maksakova, sharply criticized Russian President Vladimir Putin after they left Russia for Ukraine in October.
In a February interview with Radio Free Europe, Voronenkov called Russia's 2014 annexation of Crimea a "mistake," and that the couple left the country because of pressure from Russian security services.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:15 AM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
In a February interview with Radio Free Europe, Voronenkov called Russia's 2014 annexation of Crimea a "mistake," and that the couple left the country because of pressure from Russian security services.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:15 AM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
And then TIME magazine, which treats me horribly, but obviously I sell, I assume this is going to be a cover too, have I set the record? I guess, right? Covers, nobody’s had more covers.
Nixon's been on the cover of Time 55 times. See Every Donald Trump TIME Cover has 11 covers as of January 2017 (almost all during or since the election), and there's been at least one since.
Trump's count includes two meltdown covers and a storm-is-brewing cover about his first month in office. Even his Person of the Year cover drew comparisons to Hitler. So the number of times he's on the cover is more important than whether or not the cover's positive.
Also, using Time magazine covers is a weird, outdated metric that fits his pattern of ancient references. (His favorite generals, Patton and MacArthur, were prominent in World War II and MacArthur was prominent during the Korean War.)
posted by kirkaracha at 7:16 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
No deal on Gorsuch -- Schumer just announced on the Senate floor that he's voting no on Gorsuch and that McConnell will need to get 60 votes or get rid of the filibuster if he wants Gorsuch confirmed. Paraphrase: "Our goal is not to change the rules, it's to change the nominee."
posted by melissasaurus at 7:17 AM on March 23, 2017 [143 favorites]
posted by melissasaurus at 7:17 AM on March 23, 2017 [143 favorites]
Right from the very start of that TIME interview!
Do you want me to give you a quick overview* [of the story]?*Further down:Yeah, it’s a cool story. I mean it’s, the concept is right. I predicted a lot of things, Michael. Some things that came to you a little bit later. But, you know, we just rolled out a list...[Sweden]...[Huma Abedin and Anthony Weiner]...[her emails]...[NATO]...[Brexit]...
The peg for this story is the wiretapping hearing on Monday...posted by TWinbrook8 at 7:19 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
reading these Time interview quotes has me suppressing an existential scream that would shatter my work desk and laptop
the future will look at us, if the records survive, and ask 'how did they invite such a transparent baby into the highest executive position in the country?'
here's hoping in the next few months, we'll prove that there was traitorous collusion
posted by kokaku at 7:21 AM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
the future will look at us, if the records survive, and ask 'how did they invite such a transparent baby into the highest executive position in the country?'
here's hoping in the next few months, we'll prove that there was traitorous collusion
posted by kokaku at 7:21 AM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
McConnell will need to get 60 votes or get rid of the filibuster if he wants Gorsuch confirmed.
Good to hear. See, this is the result of a weakened president! Democrats grow a spine. Holding him off for a while longer becomes more important than strategizing how to survive his power long term. The fundamental fact here is that Trump is less popular than when he was barely elected and getting less popular by the day. As long as that is the case the wind is blowing us back from the edge of the cliff. Delegitimization and obstruction work hand in hand.
posted by spitbull at 7:21 AM on March 23, 2017 [49 favorites]
Good to hear. See, this is the result of a weakened president! Democrats grow a spine. Holding him off for a while longer becomes more important than strategizing how to survive his power long term. The fundamental fact here is that Trump is less popular than when he was barely elected and getting less popular by the day. As long as that is the case the wind is blowing us back from the edge of the cliff. Delegitimization and obstruction work hand in hand.
posted by spitbull at 7:21 AM on March 23, 2017 [49 favorites]
That whole article is TRAGIC, but the "who has the most covers" part struck me, too. I whispered, "Oh honey!" to myself at that point. WHY is Ivanka letting him do these things? If she's there to handle him, she's failing miserably.
posted by thebrokedown at 7:22 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 7:22 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Holy Christ, Schumer finally found his discarded spine.
(Was any of that "Democrats are ready to make a deal!" reporting actually tied to named sources? I'd be curious to know who was talking about it.)
posted by tobascodagama at 7:23 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
(Was any of that "Democrats are ready to make a deal!" reporting actually tied to named sources? I'd be curious to know who was talking about it.)
posted by tobascodagama at 7:23 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Whoa. I thought for sure they'd save that play for a later nominee that would tip the Court's partisan balance.
Gum up the works, stall for time, and hope the Russia drip becomes a deluge seems to be the plan.
posted by notyou at 7:23 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Gum up the works, stall for time, and hope the Russia drip becomes a deluge seems to be the plan.
posted by notyou at 7:23 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
thebrokedown: WHY is Ivanka letting him do these things? If she's there to handle him, she's failing miserably.
Must there always be a woman to blame for a man's horrible behaviour?
posted by Too-Ticky at 7:25 AM on March 23, 2017 [75 favorites]
Must there always be a woman to blame for a man's horrible behaviour?
posted by Too-Ticky at 7:25 AM on March 23, 2017 [75 favorites]
Absolutely. I think the key lesson here is that the Democrats need to treat this as a doomed presidency, full steam ahead, block everything they can with everything they've got. Planning for long term resistance is the wrong approach and it'll kneecap any efforts to showcase this administration's complete lack of anything approaching competence.
HOLD THE LINE. Be the bluff against which the Republicans will need to smash through top get anything done at all.
posted by lydhre at 7:27 AM on March 23, 2017 [35 favorites]
HOLD THE LINE. Be the bluff against which the Republicans will need to smash through top get anything done at all.
posted by lydhre at 7:27 AM on March 23, 2017 [35 favorites]
Actual email sent out by Trump Headquarters
Unclear how long they can cry "fake news" at literally every story.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:28 AM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
Unclear how long they can cry "fake news" at literally every story.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:28 AM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
I was thinking of her more as a family member who appears to be ensconced in the White House for just that purpose, but ok.
posted by thebrokedown at 7:28 AM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 7:28 AM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Honestly at this point I don't think Americans know what they want when it comes to health policy.
This is the US, so of course the answer is that Americans want to be able to eat double cheeseburgers and smoke for their entire lives and then, when the shit hits the fan, pay a $5 co-pay and have the world's best treatment.
I know that sounds harsh, but that's pretty much the way the right sees the debate over universal healthcare and pre-existing conditions. I don't honestly think that even the most heartless of them is looking at chronic genetic illness and considering that to be undeserving of care, but the way these issues are framed these days is boils down to black and white and the privileged class sees disease as a moral failing.
Sensible healthcare reform, the kind that rewards preventive care, healthy check-ups and a lifetime of good choices is considered a "nanny state" policy, and would take a generation at least to have an effect on the economics of coverage anyway.
It's complicated is a vast understatement.
posted by OHenryPacey at 7:30 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
This is the US, so of course the answer is that Americans want to be able to eat double cheeseburgers and smoke for their entire lives and then, when the shit hits the fan, pay a $5 co-pay and have the world's best treatment.
I know that sounds harsh, but that's pretty much the way the right sees the debate over universal healthcare and pre-existing conditions. I don't honestly think that even the most heartless of them is looking at chronic genetic illness and considering that to be undeserving of care, but the way these issues are framed these days is boils down to black and white and the privileged class sees disease as a moral failing.
Sensible healthcare reform, the kind that rewards preventive care, healthy check-ups and a lifetime of good choices is considered a "nanny state" policy, and would take a generation at least to have an effect on the economics of coverage anyway.
It's complicated is a vast understatement.
posted by OHenryPacey at 7:30 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
Stopped clock blah blah blah... Still an asshole who raised a dog torturer and killer.
Mike Huckabee: A conservative plea for the National Endowment for the Arts
Mike Huckabee: A conservative plea for the National Endowment for the Arts
Funding for the National Endowment for the Arts might seem expendable — especially given how often celebrity artists insult and even threaten the president. But such hateful high-dollar Hollywood and music-industry stars don’t receive anything from the NEA, and they shouldn’t. Not because of their insufferable political whining, but because they get rich selling their talents to the highest bidder in the private sector. I have zero interest in spending a dime of tax money to prop up those who hate the president and the tens of millions who elected him.posted by chris24 at 7:32 AM on March 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
I do care greatly about the real recipients of endowment funds: the kids in poverty for whom NEA programs may be their only chance to learn to play an instrument, test-drive their God-given creativity and develop a passion for those things that civilize and humanize us all. They’re the reason we should stop and recognize that this line item accounting for just 0.004 percent of the federal budget is not what’s breaking the bank.
Participation in the arts leads to higher grade-point averages and SAT scores, as well as improvements in math skills and spatial reasoning. Do we want students who are less likely to drop out of school and more likely to have academic success, particularly in math and science? Music and art deliver, especially for students likely to get lost in an education assembly line that can be more Pink Floyd’s “Another Brick in the Wall” than about creative thinking and problem solving. Creativity finds cures for diseases, creates companies such as Apple and Microsoft and, above all, makes our culture more livable.
Many children get their only access to music and the arts via grants made by the NEA — 40 percent of which go to high-poverty neighborhoods, while 36 percent reach underserved people, such as veterans and those with disabilities. In fiscal 2016, NEA grants went to nearly 16,000 communities, in every congressional district in the country.
Actual email sent out by Trump Headquarters
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 7:33 AM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
* I stand with President TrumpTwo great tastes, even better together: push polling and confirm-shaming.
* I stand with Democrats & Fake News
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 7:33 AM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
I hope Schumer really has those votes. Making that announcement and losing enough traitors to fail to back it up would be devastating.
If they stand firm, it's equally huge. Make McConnell break the filibuster. He really, really doesn't want to, and might not be able to. Make him put up.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:33 AM on March 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
If they stand firm, it's equally huge. Make McConnell break the filibuster. He really, really doesn't want to, and might not be able to. Make him put up.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:33 AM on March 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
My Senator (Casey-PA) is not supporting Gorsuch's nomination to SCOTUS.
He really has gotten religion this year. Glory be.
I'm toilet trained and know how to use my inside voice, where are my accolades?
posted by indubitable at 7:33 AM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
He really has gotten religion this year. Glory be.
I'm toilet trained and know how to use my inside voice, where are my accolades?
posted by indubitable at 7:33 AM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
I hope Schumer really has those votes. Making that announcement and losing enough traitors to fail to back it up would be devastating.
Schumer has to have the votes, right? He couldn't make that announcement if he didn't know he had the votes. *fingers crossed*
posted by monju_bosatsu at 7:35 AM on March 23, 2017
Schumer has to have the votes, right? He couldn't make that announcement if he didn't know he had the votes. *fingers crossed*
posted by monju_bosatsu at 7:35 AM on March 23, 2017
This is the US, so of course the answer is that Americans want to be able to eat double cheeseburgers and smoke for their entire lives and then, when the shit hits the fan, pay a $5 co-pay and have the world's best treatment.
This is how it actually works in the rest of the civilized world.
posted by Talez at 7:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [86 favorites]
This is how it actually works in the rest of the civilized world.
posted by Talez at 7:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [86 favorites]
I was thinking of her more as a family member who appears to be ensconced in the White House for just that purpose, but ok.
I think that Trump/Kushner have made an effort to appear to be moderating influences on Big Trump through strategic leaks. No evidence they actually are. I'm pretty sure their actual purpose is to ensure that the Presidency benefits their respective real estate empires and enriches them. Eric and Junior "run" Trump Org, Ivanka/Jared meet with foreign dignitaries and act as an intermediary between President Stuff and Corporate Stuff communicating with Eric and Junior, so that Trump himself can have some kind of distance.
posted by dis_integration at 7:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
I think that Trump/Kushner have made an effort to appear to be moderating influences on Big Trump through strategic leaks. No evidence they actually are. I'm pretty sure their actual purpose is to ensure that the Presidency benefits their respective real estate empires and enriches them. Eric and Junior "run" Trump Org, Ivanka/Jared meet with foreign dignitaries and act as an intermediary between President Stuff and Corporate Stuff communicating with Eric and Junior, so that Trump himself can have some kind of distance.
posted by dis_integration at 7:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Ivanka can't stop him. Remember Roy and the tiger: you can't super tame a tiger if he's in a bad fucking mood. And she's not much of a tiger tamer.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:37 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:37 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
As if there were any doubt, 538 has used a technique called Latent Semantic Analysis to show that r/the_donald is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. When politics is removed, the subreddit most closely resembles subsites that engage in fat shaming, misogyny via "men's rights", racism, and (surprise!) 4chan.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:38 AM on March 23, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:38 AM on March 23, 2017 [22 favorites]
> Music and art deliver, especially for students likely to get lost in an education assembly line that can be more Pink Floyd’s “Another Brick in the Wall” than about creative thinking and problem solving.
If I were Roger Waters I really would not know how to feel about this.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:40 AM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
If I were Roger Waters I really would not know how to feel about this.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:40 AM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
Is there any real deadline for presenting a "final" version of the AHCS to vote on? Are there any implications if the Republicans don't produce a bill until, say, next week?
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 7:41 AM on March 23, 2017
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 7:41 AM on March 23, 2017
'how did they invite such a transparent baby into the highest executive position in the country?'
X is a helluva drug.
Where X = hypocrisy, lust for power, greed, tribalism, nationalism, racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, authoritarianism and/or religious fundamentalism.
posted by darkstar at 7:41 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
X is a helluva drug.
Where X = hypocrisy, lust for power, greed, tribalism, nationalism, racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, authoritarianism and/or religious fundamentalism.
posted by darkstar at 7:41 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
futz: A Hawaii lawmaker who says she was pressured to give up her leadership post at the statehouse after criticizing President Donald Trump resigned Wednesday from the Republican Party.
Switch sides! You won't be the first!
posted by filthy light thief at 7:41 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
Switch sides! You won't be the first!
posted by filthy light thief at 7:41 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
I'm debating if I need to take my mom's car keys away for her own safety, and she's just driving herself into a ditch, not the whole country. This man needs help, and a normal family would see that he's getting it, but I momentarily forgot that they are slimy users to a person, rather than people who give a shit about their father.
posted by thebrokedown at 7:44 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by thebrokedown at 7:44 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
It also should be noted that my employer-provided insurance is waaaaay better coverage than anything you're going to get on the private insurance market.
I think this is kind of worth noting, for overseas folks confused on why some people might not want single payer. Even in the US, the networks of providers and providers being able to choose which insurances they accept mean that some health networks are not too crowded, you can generally get same day appointments for most non-specialty stuff, etc.
But when everyone can use services, sometimes it's not about money - there just aren't enough providers. Veterans are seeing this with VA right now - they recently expanded mental health care to include vets with bad discharges, which I have mixed feelings about, but it also means that more vets will have access to care, but all vets accessing care will have less of it.
Single payer is an equalizer - some people's health insurance will get better, some will get worse. They're not offering "everyone gets better than what they're getting right now."
posted by corb at 7:45 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think this is kind of worth noting, for overseas folks confused on why some people might not want single payer. Even in the US, the networks of providers and providers being able to choose which insurances they accept mean that some health networks are not too crowded, you can generally get same day appointments for most non-specialty stuff, etc.
But when everyone can use services, sometimes it's not about money - there just aren't enough providers. Veterans are seeing this with VA right now - they recently expanded mental health care to include vets with bad discharges, which I have mixed feelings about, but it also means that more vets will have access to care, but all vets accessing care will have less of it.
Single payer is an equalizer - some people's health insurance will get better, some will get worse. They're not offering "everyone gets better than what they're getting right now."
posted by corb at 7:45 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
There's no real deadline. Today had some symbolic value (anniversary of OCare passage?), but mostly it was about acting fast before anyone looked too closely and the opposition got even louder, and to create some urgency and leverage. And, of course, the longer this takes, the longer they have to wait to act on the rest of their shitty agenda -- after having squandered whatever 100 day advantages they may have had.
posted by notyou at 7:47 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by notyou at 7:47 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Switch sides! You won't be the first!
She resigned from the Republican party according to Time.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
She resigned from the Republican party according to Time.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mike Huckabee: A conservative plea for the National Endowment for the Arts
The pending demise of PBS, the NEA, etc. is not real. It's just a negotiating tactic. The Trumpites are betting that everyone with be so happy when they are restored to the budget (though probably still with cuts) that there liberals will treat it as a win and the far more severe damage to the EPA, NIH, HUD, Education will go through mostly uncontested.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
The pending demise of PBS, the NEA, etc. is not real. It's just a negotiating tactic. The Trumpites are betting that everyone with be so happy when they are restored to the budget (though probably still with cuts) that there liberals will treat it as a win and the far more severe damage to the EPA, NIH, HUD, Education will go through mostly uncontested.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
But when everyone can use services, sometimes it's not about money - there just aren't enough providers. Veterans are seeing this with VA right now - they recently expanded mental health care to include vets with bad discharges, which I have mixed feelings about, but it also means that more vets will have access to care, but all vets accessing care will have less of it.
We should buy one fewer F35 and pay for mental health care for everyone who's ever been in the military forever.
posted by Etrigan at 7:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [84 favorites]
We should buy one fewer F35 and pay for mental health care for everyone who's ever been in the military forever.
posted by Etrigan at 7:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [84 favorites]
Single payer is an equalizer - some people's health insurance will get better, some will get worse.
Except single payer doesn't have to eliminate private insurance. So people and/or companies that want to pay for what they feel will be better service still can.
posted by chris24 at 7:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [44 favorites]
Except single payer doesn't have to eliminate private insurance. So people and/or companies that want to pay for what they feel will be better service still can.
posted by chris24 at 7:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [44 favorites]
Fact Checker, WaPo: President Trump’s cascade of false claims in Time’s interview on his falsehoods
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
Just a big picture thought. Folks, it's working. This president and his administration are already as delegitimized as any president has ever been.
It is my literal, actual birthday today, and we have Republicans calling it treason and Democrats making a stand in the Senate.
Quick, what else should I wish for?
posted by schadenfrau at 7:50 AM on March 23, 2017 [109 favorites]
It is my literal, actual birthday today, and we have Republicans calling it treason and Democrats making a stand in the Senate.
Quick, what else should I wish for?
posted by schadenfrau at 7:50 AM on March 23, 2017 [109 favorites]
The pending demise of PBS, the NEA, etc. is not real. It's just a negotiating tactic.
No, they genuinely want to get rid of PBS, the NEA, etc. If they don't, it's not because they never intended to, it's because their reach exceeded their grasp.
posted by Etrigan at 7:50 AM on March 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
No, they genuinely want to get rid of PBS, the NEA, etc. If they don't, it's not because they never intended to, it's because their reach exceeded their grasp.
posted by Etrigan at 7:50 AM on March 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
Reuters: House Intelligence Committee Democrat Speier says will assess over next few days whether confident Nunes can continue in role
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:51 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:51 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
There are no shortage of private health insurers and providers in Britain. The market isn't closed to them, and they have the space to do well. I am mid forties and never known a world without them. And I have the NHS.
Where they succeed is by genuinely adding value.
posted by vbfg at 7:51 AM on March 23, 2017 [32 favorites]
Where they succeed is by genuinely adding value.
posted by vbfg at 7:51 AM on March 23, 2017 [32 favorites]
But when everyone can use services, sometimes it's not about money - there just aren't enough providers.On the one hand, sure. On the other hand, I refuse to believe that the best solution to this problem is to determine that a certain percentage of the population has to go without care. And we really don't have a shortage of capable people who want to be healthcare providers. Medical schools are turning away many, many applicants who would have been admitted thirty years ago. There's a big shortage of nursing educators, which means that nursing schools are turning away qualified applicants. (There's basically no incentive for someone to become a nursing educator right now, because nursing educators need a lot more education than specialist nurses do and make less money. We could pay nursing educators more, but we don't.) There are pipeline problems that we could address to increase the number of providers.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:52 AM on March 23, 2017 [22 favorites]
C'est la D.C.: I just want to point out, to pin down a frame of reference, that we are only a little more than 60 days into this administration and people are talking about treason with a straight face.
The 100 day recap is going to be a doozy.
The 100 day recap is going to be a Game of Thrones-length novel because of footnotes alone, if you want to include enough details to understand how the hell did we get here? The talk of treason goes back well before the election, let alone Trump's inauguration.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:53 AM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
The 100 day recap is going to be a doozy.
The 100 day recap is going to be a Game of Thrones-length novel because of footnotes alone, if you want to include enough details to understand how the hell did we get here? The talk of treason goes back well before the election, let alone Trump's inauguration.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:53 AM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Single payer is an equalizer - some people's health insurance will get better, some will get worse. They're not offering "everyone gets better than what they're getting right now."
Yes they are. If you currently have no, or shitty state-exchange-based, insurance, you get to move onto an exchange that, at worst, doesn't promise you same-day appointments. If you're employed somewhere that provides health insurance as a benefit, you'll now have supplemental insurance that gives you the same level of coverage and access you had before.
Everyone gets, at worst, the same thing they have now, and tens of millions of people get access to insurance.
posted by Mayor West at 7:54 AM on March 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
Yes they are. If you currently have no, or shitty state-exchange-based, insurance, you get to move onto an exchange that, at worst, doesn't promise you same-day appointments. If you're employed somewhere that provides health insurance as a benefit, you'll now have supplemental insurance that gives you the same level of coverage and access you had before.
Everyone gets, at worst, the same thing they have now, and tens of millions of people get access to insurance.
posted by Mayor West at 7:54 AM on March 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
I don't think this Fresh Air interview has been posted yet, so... "Jane Mayer writes in the New Yorker about Robert Mercer and his daughter, Rebekah, who have poured millions of dollars into Breitbart News, and who pushed to have Bannon run Trump's campaign."
posted by MonkeyToes at 7:54 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by MonkeyToes at 7:54 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
A Hawaii lawmaker who says she was pressured to give up her leadership post at the statehouse after criticizing President Donald Trump resigned Wednesday from the Republican Party.
Switch sides! You won't be the first!
State Rep. Fukumoto has already announced that she's applying for membership in the Democratic Party, according to her Twitter account. Good for her.
(The only thing I know about her is this and the fact that she represents my aunt's town. Not only is Fukumoto Japanese-American herself, but that district, like the state overall, has a large Japanese-American population, so if anything this move will probably make her more popular there. Turns out talking about mass internment of religiously and ethnically-defined minorities makes you unpopular with people whose family members have been subject to mass interment within living memory.)
posted by tobascodagama at 7:55 AM on March 23, 2017 [25 favorites]
Switch sides! You won't be the first!
State Rep. Fukumoto has already announced that she's applying for membership in the Democratic Party, according to her Twitter account. Good for her.
(The only thing I know about her is this and the fact that she represents my aunt's town. Not only is Fukumoto Japanese-American herself, but that district, like the state overall, has a large Japanese-American population, so if anything this move will probably make her more popular there. Turns out talking about mass internment of religiously and ethnically-defined minorities makes you unpopular with people whose family members have been subject to mass interment within living memory.)
posted by tobascodagama at 7:55 AM on March 23, 2017 [25 favorites]
Happy birthday, schadenfrau! Could you possibly wish for a pox on the West Wing? I know it's old fashioned, but it seems awfully appropriate.
posted by Sophie1 at 7:55 AM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 7:55 AM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
An Israeli teenager has been arrested for the Jewish community center bomb threats.
Shit. Have the "false flag" comments started pouring out of the wingnut blogosphere yet?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:55 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Shit. Have the "false flag" comments started pouring out of the wingnut blogosphere yet?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:55 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Private insurance can coexist along with single payer, as it does in Italy. You're universally covered but you're free to buy private insurance or free to pay out of pocket for any visit you'd like.
I will forever repeat the story of my mom's death because she received the best care one could possibly hope for: she suffered a heart attack and within FIVE MINUTES a helicopter landed next to our house, flew her to the hospital, she underwent open heart surgery, ten days in the ICU, until she passed from a kidney infection (intentionally untreated because the heart attack had left her with irreparable brain damage and it was all we could do to "pull the plug"). Cost to us: zero. Zero, nada, zilch.
posted by lydhre at 7:55 AM on March 23, 2017 [31 favorites]
I will forever repeat the story of my mom's death because she received the best care one could possibly hope for: she suffered a heart attack and within FIVE MINUTES a helicopter landed next to our house, flew her to the hospital, she underwent open heart surgery, ten days in the ICU, until she passed from a kidney infection (intentionally untreated because the heart attack had left her with irreparable brain damage and it was all we could do to "pull the plug"). Cost to us: zero. Zero, nada, zilch.
posted by lydhre at 7:55 AM on March 23, 2017 [31 favorites]
Fact Checker, WaPo
You know someone's frustrated at trying to find new ways to say "this is a lie" when they follow a comment with "No." then elaborate.
You know someone's frustrated at trying to find new ways to say "this is a lie" when they follow a comment with "No." then elaborate.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:55 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]“Huma and Anthony, you know, what I tweeted about that whole deal, and then it turned out he had it, all of Hillary’s email on his thing.”No. Weiner did not have all of Clinton’s emails on his laptop. The FBI ultimately concluded none of the emails added new information to the investigation into Clinton’s private server.
Quick, what else should I wish for?
A pony!
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:56 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
A pony!
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:56 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
then it turned out he had it, all of Hillary’s email on his thing.
Aw jeez. We're not doing phrasing anymore, are we.
posted by joyceanmachine at 7:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [32 favorites]
Aw jeez. We're not doing phrasing anymore, are we.
posted by joyceanmachine at 7:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [32 favorites]
The 100 day recap is going to be a Game of Thrones-length novel because of footnotes alone, if you want to include enough details to understand how the hell did we get here? The talk of treason goes back well before the election, let alone Trump's inauguration.
I'd like to think it'll be more of an Infinite Jest-type piece. Read a single sentence about the accusations of treason for a sitting president, and then you turn to your second bookmark on page 900, and read 5000 words of explanation of what an indefatigable shitgibbon Nunes and his entourage are.
posted by Mayor West at 7:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
I'd like to think it'll be more of an Infinite Jest-type piece. Read a single sentence about the accusations of treason for a sitting president, and then you turn to your second bookmark on page 900, and read 5000 words of explanation of what an indefatigable shitgibbon Nunes and his entourage are.
posted by Mayor West at 7:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
Private insurance can coexist along with single payer, as it does in Italy. You're universally covered but you're free to buy private insurance or free to pay out of pocket for any visit you'd like.
Yep. My mother in Australia had DCIS, had a double mastectomy and elected to have a rebuild. While the mastectomy was going to be very quick, the rebuild was going to be a second elective surgery months down the line. They elected to go private to have both done in the same surgery to minimize trauma and recovery time. It wasn't that expensive (something like $15K for the surgery and two days in hospital) so they just put it on the mortgage (in Australia we have offset mortgages).
posted by Talez at 7:59 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yep. My mother in Australia had DCIS, had a double mastectomy and elected to have a rebuild. While the mastectomy was going to be very quick, the rebuild was going to be a second elective surgery months down the line. They elected to go private to have both done in the same surgery to minimize trauma and recovery time. It wasn't that expensive (something like $15K for the surgery and two days in hospital) so they just put it on the mortgage (in Australia we have offset mortgages).
posted by Talez at 7:59 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
in Australia we have offset mortgages
STOP GIVING THEM IDEAS
posted by Mayor West at 8:00 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
STOP GIVING THEM IDEAS
posted by Mayor West at 8:00 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Could you possibly wish for a pox on the West Wing?
BEDBUGS IT IS.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:00 AM on March 23, 2017 [33 favorites]
BEDBUGS IT IS.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:00 AM on March 23, 2017 [33 favorites]
Fact Checker, WaPo
They should just reprint the Time article with all the lies in red, just to emphasize the scale of the falsehoods
posted by dhruva at 8:02 AM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
They should just reprint the Time article with all the lies in red, just to emphasize the scale of the falsehoods
posted by dhruva at 8:02 AM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
wish 4 bees
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:02 AM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:02 AM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
Could you possibly wish for a pox on the West Wing?
BEDBUGS IT IS.
How about something that would affect him more than three days out of seven?
posted by Etrigan at 8:03 AM on March 23, 2017 [36 favorites]
BEDBUGS IT IS.
How about something that would affect him more than three days out of seven?
posted by Etrigan at 8:03 AM on March 23, 2017 [36 favorites]
They should just reprint the Time article with all the lies in red, just to emphasize the scale of the falsehoods
He doesn't need any more encouragement to think that he's the Second Coming.
posted by Etrigan at 8:04 AM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
He doesn't need any more encouragement to think that he's the Second Coming.
posted by Etrigan at 8:04 AM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
then it turned out he had it, all of Hillary’s email on his thing.
Aw jeez. We're not doing phrasing anymore, are we
The President is giving us a master class in Americanese, be grateful.
posted by nubs at 8:04 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Aw jeez. We're not doing phrasing anymore, are we
The President is giving us a master class in Americanese, be grateful.
posted by nubs at 8:04 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Scabies. Scabies for the lot of them.
posted by lydhre at 8:05 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 8:05 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
A pony!
That's a good idea that we've seen proposed on MeTa from time to time, but it's not really high on the priority list right now.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 8:06 AM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
That's a good idea that we've seen proposed on MeTa from time to time, but it's not really high on the priority list right now.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 8:06 AM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
(I have amended the third wish to be "an uncomfortable, disfiguring plague of deity's choice, or bees")
posted by schadenfrau at 8:07 AM on March 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 8:07 AM on March 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
Naw, wish for the ghost of Honest Abe to follow him around and scream "LIAR!" In his ear every time he spouts an untruth.
posted by valkane at 8:08 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by valkane at 8:08 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
We should buy one fewer F35 and pay for mental health care for everyone who's ever been in the military forever.
Eh, like everything else, it's complicated. Guys who pissed hot? Sure. Guys drummed out for raping or otherwise hurting another service member? I'm okay with them having forfeited their benefits along with their honor.
But ArbitraryAndCapricious is right about some of the real problems. If we add a lot of health care consumers without adding an equivalent number of health care providers, people's care is going to get worse because of crowding and rationing. Now that's a solveable problem, but I'm not sure people are really thinking about what it takes to solve it and the time frame to solve it. To produce one provider takes several years and multiple institutions capable of training them, which we just don't have set up right now.
There are health organizations desperate to hire staffers right now, but most of the trained professionals, especially in mental health/social work, don't have the degrees now required.
posted by corb at 8:08 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Eh, like everything else, it's complicated. Guys who pissed hot? Sure. Guys drummed out for raping or otherwise hurting another service member? I'm okay with them having forfeited their benefits along with their honor.
But ArbitraryAndCapricious is right about some of the real problems. If we add a lot of health care consumers without adding an equivalent number of health care providers, people's care is going to get worse because of crowding and rationing. Now that's a solveable problem, but I'm not sure people are really thinking about what it takes to solve it and the time frame to solve it. To produce one provider takes several years and multiple institutions capable of training them, which we just don't have set up right now.
There are health organizations desperate to hire staffers right now, but most of the trained professionals, especially in mental health/social work, don't have the degrees now required.
posted by corb at 8:08 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
No, they genuinely want to get rid of PBS, the NEA, etc.
I believe they want to, I'm arguing they don't expect to, since even Republican Soccer Moms love Elmo. But it's in there to attract attention and deflect from other things.
Most of my friends are liberal, and I've seen 20x posts on cuts to PBS or the NEA than I have about the EPA. No one's even mentioned HUD.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:11 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
I believe they want to, I'm arguing they don't expect to, since even Republican Soccer Moms love Elmo. But it's in there to attract attention and deflect from other things.
Most of my friends are liberal, and I've seen 20x posts on cuts to PBS or the NEA than I have about the EPA. No one's even mentioned HUD.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:11 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
Guys drummed out for raping or otherwise hurting another service member? I'm okay with them having forfeited their benefits along with their honor.
Whereas I would qualify those as the ones whom society most needs to have mental health treatment. Think of it as vaccination rather than reward.
posted by Etrigan at 8:12 AM on March 23, 2017 [43 favorites]
Whereas I would qualify those as the ones whom society most needs to have mental health treatment. Think of it as vaccination rather than reward.
posted by Etrigan at 8:12 AM on March 23, 2017 [43 favorites]
Lack of access is de facto rationing today, except that instead of rationing based on condition, it's based on arbitrary personal economic conditions.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:12 AM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:12 AM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
I think corb's probably right and a lot of fear-driven animosity about a single-payer system (or crap substitute that at least insures most people) stems from fuck-you-I-got-mine-ism, but isn't there a huge and growing sector of people who get prettygood health insurance through an employer but know and love at least one person who has no health insurance? I know someone who used to have Obamacare and now does not have anything. Believe me that I would stay up all night and battle with bees to sign away my empoyer-funded care in exchange for basic coverage so that everybody could get basic coverage.
posted by Don Pepino at 8:12 AM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Don Pepino at 8:12 AM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
It's not like employer-based coverage is some picnic either. Every year, they tell you about how the premiums are up, and the deductible is up but you can use an HRA, and with this plan you can also use an FSA, but with the high deductible plan you can use the HSA, and you can get credits for the HRA or the HSA if you're in the wellness plan, and cards will go out and you have to update them with your provider, and we're doing prescriptions through CVS now, so those different cards are going out, and here are the formularies and you're supposed to go on 90-day mail order, oh and I know last year the plan switched to only covering one hospital, but this year we are switching back to only covering the first hospital, and and and.
It's all a giant pain in the ass, but at least it's also fantastically expensive.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:20 AM on March 23, 2017 [82 favorites]
It's all a giant pain in the ass, but at least it's also fantastically expensive.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:20 AM on March 23, 2017 [82 favorites]
Time for another Trump drawing; it's so frustrating watching the massive circle of enablers around this shitshow. And, the current Republican party. Contextually speaking, has there been a more morally bankrupt party in American history?
Springtime for Trump
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 8:22 AM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Springtime for Trump
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 8:22 AM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
I think realistically the only way we wind up with functioning single payer in this country is a very slow phase-in. Start with continuing to expand Medicaid and Medicare, ramp up the subsidies so that more people are able to access the marketplace, after more time introduce a universal public option and let people choose. It can't happen with the stroke of a pen. But it can happen slowly but surely if we keep the pressure up, keep things moving in the right direction, and stop this CHANGE ELECTION nonsense we do every 4-8 years where everyone reverses position because hey, it's not a unicorn utopia yet, so clearly everything and everyone sucks let's all do the exact polar opposite of what we've been doing!
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:23 AM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:23 AM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
If we add a lot of health care consumers without adding an equivalent number of health care providers
We actual import a large number of them already. One in four doctors were educated outside the US. So that travel ban has medical repercussions.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:24 AM on March 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
We actual import a large number of them already. One in four doctors were educated outside the US. So that travel ban has medical repercussions.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:24 AM on March 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
Yup. I pay a lot for a not great plan through the exchange, and last month I would have happily paid even more if it meant nobody had to ever make that heartbreaking calculus.
And now my cat has cancer, and I can afford to give him chemo, but I was acutely aware of how much more painful it would be if I couldn't, and had to make decisions on that basis. And that is my cat. And so this month I actively want to fight anyone who wants a world in which parents ever have to wonder whether they can afford to get their kids medical treatment. I have a chunk of change in the bank and the ability to make more; just take it. Just fucking take if that's what it will take to give everyone this basic human right. And then give me a shot at breaking Paul Ryan's nose. I'm tiny and female and he has medical care.
...maybe that's what I should have wished for.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:27 AM on March 23, 2017 [34 favorites]
And now my cat has cancer, and I can afford to give him chemo, but I was acutely aware of how much more painful it would be if I couldn't, and had to make decisions on that basis. And that is my cat. And so this month I actively want to fight anyone who wants a world in which parents ever have to wonder whether they can afford to get their kids medical treatment. I have a chunk of change in the bank and the ability to make more; just take it. Just fucking take if that's what it will take to give everyone this basic human right. And then give me a shot at breaking Paul Ryan's nose. I'm tiny and female and he has medical care.
...maybe that's what I should have wished for.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:27 AM on March 23, 2017 [34 favorites]
Increasing the number of medical providers isn't a barrier to single payer. We could solve it any number of ways, from subsidizing medical schools, further relaxing restrictions on care by nurse practitioners, increasing the amount paid by the government for primary care to encourage broader acceptance and participation, or just allowing a lot more doctors to immigrate on a fast track.
Lack of providers would stablize in a few years and everyone would be in a better place.
As to private insurance, what country anywhere prevents the coexistence of private insurance and mandates that only government plans can exist? This is a straw man. No serious proposal would ever preclude supplemental private plans or out of pocket payment for specialized care. Literally no one is proposing Soviet Russia.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:28 AM on March 23, 2017 [29 favorites]
Lack of providers would stablize in a few years and everyone would be in a better place.
As to private insurance, what country anywhere prevents the coexistence of private insurance and mandates that only government plans can exist? This is a straw man. No serious proposal would ever preclude supplemental private plans or out of pocket payment for specialized care. Literally no one is proposing Soviet Russia.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:28 AM on March 23, 2017 [29 favorites]
Even in the US, the networks of providers and providers being able to choose which insurances they accept mean that some health networks are not too crowded, you can generally get same day appointments for most non-specialty stuff, etc.
In 2015, while I was shopping the Federal ACA exchange, I specifically chose my plan to my family could continue to see the primary care physician we have had for 18 years. I am an informed consumer, making a point to research my coverage as closely as possible because I had to help with my grandmother's coverage when she was getting too old to do it herself. I chose to pay a higher monthly premium to get on that plan.
In 2016, the first time we tried to use the coverage to see our primary care physician, he was out of network. The insurance company had changed the network after we had bought our coverage. Eventually, I escalated my fight to the federal level, and got to switch health insurance companies after the cutoff date because BCBS had straight up bait and switched us.
For citizens, there is no meaningful concept of choice in the American health insurance industry. It's a lie told by capitalists to maintain their power to charge your rent on your body.
posted by vibrotronica at 8:29 AM on March 23, 2017 [91 favorites]
In 2015, while I was shopping the Federal ACA exchange, I specifically chose my plan to my family could continue to see the primary care physician we have had for 18 years. I am an informed consumer, making a point to research my coverage as closely as possible because I had to help with my grandmother's coverage when she was getting too old to do it herself. I chose to pay a higher monthly premium to get on that plan.
In 2016, the first time we tried to use the coverage to see our primary care physician, he was out of network. The insurance company had changed the network after we had bought our coverage. Eventually, I escalated my fight to the federal level, and got to switch health insurance companies after the cutoff date because BCBS had straight up bait and switched us.
For citizens, there is no meaningful concept of choice in the American health insurance industry. It's a lie told by capitalists to maintain their power to charge your rent on your body.
posted by vibrotronica at 8:29 AM on March 23, 2017 [91 favorites]
But when everyone can use services, sometimes it's not about money - there just aren't enough providers. Veterans are seeing this with VA right now - they recently expanded mental health care to include vets with bad discharges, which I have mixed feelings about, but it also means that more vets will have access to care, but all vets accessing care will have less of it.
If it really is the case that "all vets accessing care will have less," I'm not sure how that's a problem with the system being single-payer.
Single payer is an equalizer - some people's health insurance will get better, some will get worse. They're not offering "everyone gets better than what they're getting right now."
So, first of all, the evidence is overwhelming that many people's health insurance will get better, which in the US would be further bolstered by the 27m+ that have no health insurance at all. Medicare and Medicaid regularly rate near or at the top for reducing per capita and nationwide health care costs, efficiency and effectiveness of care, and health outcomes. Military and veterans' health care, when funded and administered properly, also functions amazingly well. All of those also regularly score high on patient satisfaction when compared to private insurance as well. Now, some people's healthcare may get worse, but almost every major country with single-payer also has a "private option" of the type lydhre mentions, which would serve to allow those with the means to do so to opt out.
If we add a lot of health care consumers without adding an equivalent number of health care providers, people's care is going to get worse because of crowding and rationing. Now that's a solveable problem, but I'm not sure people are really thinking about what it takes to solve it and the time frame to solve it. To produce one provider takes several years and multiple institutions capable of training them, which we just don't have set up right now.
Lots of people with a lot of knowledge have spent years thinking about solutions, many of which have been offered in drafts of Obamacare as well as other bills. Revising malpractice legislation, increasing subsidies to healthcare educators, financial assistance for medical students, attracting medical staff through temporary or permanent citizenship, and many others. The problem isn't that these are hard or particularly expensive things to do, it's that (much like their economic plans in general) they've ignored massive amounts of evidence while also spreading a lot of disinformation. Add on to that the actual physical revulsion most have to making the massively wealthy pay even slightly more for the good of their fellow citizens, and the problem gets worse.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:33 AM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
If it really is the case that "all vets accessing care will have less," I'm not sure how that's a problem with the system being single-payer.
Single payer is an equalizer - some people's health insurance will get better, some will get worse. They're not offering "everyone gets better than what they're getting right now."
So, first of all, the evidence is overwhelming that many people's health insurance will get better, which in the US would be further bolstered by the 27m+ that have no health insurance at all. Medicare and Medicaid regularly rate near or at the top for reducing per capita and nationwide health care costs, efficiency and effectiveness of care, and health outcomes. Military and veterans' health care, when funded and administered properly, also functions amazingly well. All of those also regularly score high on patient satisfaction when compared to private insurance as well. Now, some people's healthcare may get worse, but almost every major country with single-payer also has a "private option" of the type lydhre mentions, which would serve to allow those with the means to do so to opt out.
If we add a lot of health care consumers without adding an equivalent number of health care providers, people's care is going to get worse because of crowding and rationing. Now that's a solveable problem, but I'm not sure people are really thinking about what it takes to solve it and the time frame to solve it. To produce one provider takes several years and multiple institutions capable of training them, which we just don't have set up right now.
Lots of people with a lot of knowledge have spent years thinking about solutions, many of which have been offered in drafts of Obamacare as well as other bills. Revising malpractice legislation, increasing subsidies to healthcare educators, financial assistance for medical students, attracting medical staff through temporary or permanent citizenship, and many others. The problem isn't that these are hard or particularly expensive things to do, it's that (much like their economic plans in general) they've ignored massive amounts of evidence while also spreading a lot of disinformation. Add on to that the actual physical revulsion most have to making the massively wealthy pay even slightly more for the good of their fellow citizens, and the problem gets worse.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:33 AM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
Scabies. Scabies for the lot of them.
Dream bigger, darling.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 8:35 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Dream bigger, darling.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 8:35 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Black Death: Perceived as scarier than the other Deaths, for some reason.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:38 AM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:38 AM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
I wish no one such despair that they end their lives early, but it seems that Republican policies may hasten the parties demise. The Forces Driving Middle-Aged White People's 'Deaths Of Despair' (NPR, March 23, 2017)
It seems that now is the time to increase funding for mental health care and adult (re)education opportunities. But that sounds like "entitlements," so let's not go there.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:39 AM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
In a follow-up to their groundbreaking 2015 work, they say that a lack of steady, well-paying jobs for whites without college degrees has caused pain, distress and social dysfunction to build up over time. The mortality rate for that group, ages 45 to 54, increased by a half-percent each year from 1999 to 2013.The article has two maps that show how this rate has grown, primarily in the southern part of the US, but up through Utah, California and Oregon, too.
But whites with college degrees haven't suffered the same lack of economic opportunity, and haven't seen the same loss of life expectancy. The study was published Thursday in Brookings Papers on Economic Activity.
It seems that now is the time to increase funding for mental health care and adult (re)education opportunities. But that sounds like "entitlements," so let's not go there.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:39 AM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
Jennifer Rubin, WaPo: Republicans’ truth deficit will destroy the party
The #NeverTrump Republicans warned that by electing a pathologically dishonest, intellectually vapid president, the GOP would soon destroy its own credibility. In just the past 24 hours, we have seen ample proof of that.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:40 AM on March 23, 2017 [27 favorites]
Americans want to be able to eat double cheeseburgers and smoke for their entire lives and then, when the shit hits the fan, pay a $5 co-pay and have the world's best treatment.
Making particular forms of virtue a requiremnt for good medical care is sort of what we already have, it's just that the most elevated virtue is being rich. Be careful not to blame people for getting old and sick. Everyone has bad habits. No one deserves to be denied care. Many Europeans smoke and eat meat and get to go to the doctor too.
And happy birthday Schadenfrau!
posted by spitbull at 8:43 AM on March 23, 2017 [31 favorites]
Making particular forms of virtue a requiremnt for good medical care is sort of what we already have, it's just that the most elevated virtue is being rich. Be careful not to blame people for getting old and sick. Everyone has bad habits. No one deserves to be denied care. Many Europeans smoke and eat meat and get to go to the doctor too.
And happy birthday Schadenfrau!
posted by spitbull at 8:43 AM on March 23, 2017 [31 favorites]
Johnny Wallflower: Jennifer Rubin, WaPo: Republicans’ truth deficit will destroy the party
I think we should tally all the ways that the Republican party was supposed to destroy itself in the last year. You know, for laughs.
Because they increased much of the country at a local and state level (NYT interactive) in the 2016 elections. They didn't suddenly come into power - they just have less checks on their power. When your followers dispute plain facts before their eyes and make up their own truth on the spot, there's not much that a "truth deficit" can do.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:45 AM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
I think we should tally all the ways that the Republican party was supposed to destroy itself in the last year. You know, for laughs.
Because they increased much of the country at a local and state level (NYT interactive) in the 2016 elections. They didn't suddenly come into power - they just have less checks on their power. When your followers dispute plain facts before their eyes and make up their own truth on the spot, there's not much that a "truth deficit" can do.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:45 AM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
AHCA whip count: 24 no votes.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:46 AM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:46 AM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
Jennifer Rubin, WaPo: Republicans’ truth deficit will destroy the party
It's a source of continual amazement how Trump has so successfully cleaved the Republican Party between:
Decent People with Terrible Ideas || Terrible People with Terrible Ideas
He's like a Scumbag Forge.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:47 AM on March 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
It's a source of continual amazement how Trump has so successfully cleaved the Republican Party between:
Decent People with Terrible Ideas || Terrible People with Terrible Ideas
He's like a Scumbag Forge.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:47 AM on March 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
nthing that most countries with universal healthcare have private options. Also, the base level of care is much higher than the base level of care many Americans here describe. I can't go to my doctor the same day for a rash, but I can go the same day for a bad flu or an unusual cough. My adult daughter just did that and got all the tests including a MR scan within the morning. She got medical treatment immediately, but the surgery she needs will be after easter, because it isn't life-threatening.
Personally, I went through a cancer-screening last summer - from GP to surgery was ten days, all included. I'm well, thanks. No out of pocket costs at all.
The huge cost of med school in the US is a real problem, though. Why would someone with a huge debt choose to serve in a small rural hospital? Even countries with free or cheap education are finding it hard to staff clinics and hospitals at less attractive locations, how can you expect to do that in the US?
Finally, when I was a young adult, we still didn't have single payer healthcare here. It all takes time and continuous struggles. Don't give up..
posted by mumimor at 8:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
Personally, I went through a cancer-screening last summer - from GP to surgery was ten days, all included. I'm well, thanks. No out of pocket costs at all.
The huge cost of med school in the US is a real problem, though. Why would someone with a huge debt choose to serve in a small rural hospital? Even countries with free or cheap education are finding it hard to staff clinics and hospitals at less attractive locations, how can you expect to do that in the US?
Finally, when I was a young adult, we still didn't have single payer healthcare here. It all takes time and continuous struggles. Don't give up..
posted by mumimor at 8:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
Mod note: The First 100 Days tracks Donald Trump’s Contract on with the American Voter pdf, "my 100-day action plan to Make America Great Again." "Of the 44 policy pledges laid out in the Contract, we’ve documented that eighteen promises (~40%) have either been 'completed' or are 'in progress.'" (Most are "in progress.")
AP's Tracking Trump’s first 100 days rates 8 complete promises and 11 in progress out of 38.
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 8:49 AM on March 23, 2017
AP's Tracking Trump’s first 100 days rates 8 complete promises and 11 in progress out of 38.
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 8:49 AM on March 23, 2017
It's a source of continual amazement how Trump has so successfully cleaved the Republican Party
Let's wait until there's an actual cleavage to identify. As is, we've got a few more than the usual Brave True Republicans standing up to make passioned speeches before voting with the Trumpists. And let's remember that the AHCA wasn't his plan, so a vote against it isn't a repudiation of Trumpism in any meaningful form either.
posted by Etrigan at 8:51 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Let's wait until there's an actual cleavage to identify. As is, we've got a few more than the usual Brave True Republicans standing up to make passioned speeches before voting with the Trumpists. And let's remember that the AHCA wasn't his plan, so a vote against it isn't a repudiation of Trumpism in any meaningful form either.
posted by Etrigan at 8:51 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh Canada, you shining beacon on the hill! Refugees Leave The U.S. In Hopes Of And Get Better Treatment in Canada (NPR, March 23, 2017; title correction mine)
I was worried the Muslim Bans would be an effort to get Canada to build its own wall, with Canadians angry at the influx of refugees. Instead, this piece on NPR gave me hope that 1) Canada has its shit together, and 2) they're continuing to treat people with dignity and respect, welcoming them in and helping them get established in their communities.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:53 AM on March 23, 2017 [52 favorites]
Mohammed Ahmed, a refugee from Pakistan, spent a year in New Jersey before he and his family walked across the border to Canada just north of Plattsburgh, N.Y. last month. He says he was afraid he would be detained and separated from his wife and two children.Emphasis mine. As the Mother of Exiles has laid down her lamp and stands with her arms crossed in front of the golden door, Canada is standing proud, treating people with dignity and respect as we should.
"The Trump policy, he was just deporting the guys over there. We didn't see any future there, so that's why we came over," he says.
After being briefly detained, the family was allowed to go free and given a voucher to live at the YMCA, which is part of a system of shelters for refugees coming into Canada from all over the world.
"Canada is the best place. They give us the shelters. My lawyer, she's being paid by the government. Everyone here in the YMCA and the immigration office, they help us a lot," he says.
...
Across town, Francine Dupuis' Montreal office is busy with new immigrants to Canada, many of them refugees. She's leading the government-funded effort to resettle the wave of asylum seekers arriving in Quebec from the U.S.
"We're managing them now. We're not overwhelmed because we've been used to waves. We've had the Mexican waves, Kosovo wave and more recently, the Syrian wave," she says.
The treatment of immigrant families here is starkly different when compared to the U.S. Those seeking refugee status are unlikely to be detained for more than a day or two, even if they entered the country illegally or came originally from Muslim countries.
Newcomers are quickly vetted by border agents. If they're found to have criminal records, they're deported. But Dupuis says the vast majority of families are encouraged to begin settling in Canada, even while their applications for refugee status are being decided.
"They get their card, their Medicare card. We've registered their children in schools. They have a non-permanent work permit. The basics are taken care of," Dupuis says.
I was worried the Muslim Bans would be an effort to get Canada to build its own wall, with Canadians angry at the influx of refugees. Instead, this piece on NPR gave me hope that 1) Canada has its shit together, and 2) they're continuing to treat people with dignity and respect, welcoming them in and helping them get established in their communities.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:53 AM on March 23, 2017 [52 favorites]
The #NeverTrump Republicans warned that by electing a pathologically dishonest, intellectually vapid president, the GOP would soon destroy its own credibility. In just the past 24 hours, we have seen ample proof of that.
I don't think anyone cares except the people who weren't voting Republican in the first place. If a Democrat president was a lying sack of shit and the alternative was to elect Romney, I'm pretty sure that we still wouldn't elect Romney either.
A fucking liar who enacts conservative policies is still someone who enacts conservative policies.
posted by Talez at 8:53 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't think anyone cares except the people who weren't voting Republican in the first place. If a Democrat president was a lying sack of shit and the alternative was to elect Romney, I'm pretty sure that we still wouldn't elect Romney either.
A fucking liar who enacts conservative policies is still someone who enacts conservative policies.
posted by Talez at 8:53 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Indeed but if he was smart he would have played Good Cop to Paul Ryan's Bad Cop. instead he's playing the usual dominance game and right wing congresspersons don't like it.
posted by spitbull at 8:54 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by spitbull at 8:54 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
So, I don't think you're actually objecting to single-payer at all, is that right? None of the objections you've leveled are actually about single-payer, per se, just about generalized implementation issues that would be true under any comparable plan that would expand access to care.
In all honesty, I don't know what kind of health plan I would endorse if I sat and really thought about it. A lot of them have flaws, and it's an incredibly complex problem that I just don't have a perfect answer to. The only thing I'm sure of is that we absolutely need to increase the supply of providers, which unfortunately is going to drop (and it already wasn't great) with this administration's bullshit visa nonsense.
But you also have gatekeeping issues. Existing doctors don't want med school to get cheaper, because the fewer doctors there are, the higher salaries they can command. And as muminor notes, with high med school debt, doctors don't want to go out to rural areas even if the living is cheaper, because they still have to pay off med school.
And we can't get this shit fixed, because everything gets bundled with The Party's Health Plan, when it should have been a bipartisan issue. Dems want more healthcare access! GOP want America to be the best! Moar doctors, yay America, yay more access!
posted by corb at 8:57 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
In all honesty, I don't know what kind of health plan I would endorse if I sat and really thought about it. A lot of them have flaws, and it's an incredibly complex problem that I just don't have a perfect answer to. The only thing I'm sure of is that we absolutely need to increase the supply of providers, which unfortunately is going to drop (and it already wasn't great) with this administration's bullshit visa nonsense.
But you also have gatekeeping issues. Existing doctors don't want med school to get cheaper, because the fewer doctors there are, the higher salaries they can command. And as muminor notes, with high med school debt, doctors don't want to go out to rural areas even if the living is cheaper, because they still have to pay off med school.
And we can't get this shit fixed, because everything gets bundled with The Party's Health Plan, when it should have been a bipartisan issue. Dems want more healthcare access! GOP want America to be the best! Moar doctors, yay America, yay more access!
posted by corb at 8:57 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
The huge cost of med school in the US is a real problem, though. Why would someone with a huge debt choose to serve in a small rural hospital? Even countries with free or cheap education are finding it hard to staff clinics and hospitals at less attractive locations, how can you expect to do that in the US?
Up until a certain shitgibbon gave his permission to block anybody darker than a sheet of printer paper from entering the country, this role was at least partly filled by foreign-born and -educated doctors who got a cheap education outside the country. I'm not saying that's an ideal solution, but it was the solution we had, until we didn't.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Up until a certain shitgibbon gave his permission to block anybody darker than a sheet of printer paper from entering the country, this role was at least partly filled by foreign-born and -educated doctors who got a cheap education outside the country. I'm not saying that's an ideal solution, but it was the solution we had, until we didn't.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
I just don't have a perfect answer
Can you acknowledge, though, that most other countries have at least come up with pretty good answers?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:00 AM on March 23, 2017 [56 favorites]
Can you acknowledge, though, that most other countries have at least come up with pretty good answers?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:00 AM on March 23, 2017 [56 favorites]
And let's remember that the AHCA wasn't his plan, so a vote against it isn't a repudiation of Trumpism in any meaningful form either.
Except that Trump has publicly come out in favor of the plan and personally tried to convince holdouts to vote for it. He also touted his dealmaking prowess during the campaign and if he doesn't succeed here that will be unmasked. If the "no" faction of the Republican party prevails, they will have figured out a workable plan to hold any legislation they want hostage, and then all bets are off, much like when it became clear that Boehner could not corral the Tea Party.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 9:02 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Except that Trump has publicly come out in favor of the plan and personally tried to convince holdouts to vote for it. He also touted his dealmaking prowess during the campaign and if he doesn't succeed here that will be unmasked. If the "no" faction of the Republican party prevails, they will have figured out a workable plan to hold any legislation they want hostage, and then all bets are off, much like when it became clear that Boehner could not corral the Tea Party.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 9:02 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
this role was at least partly filled by foreign-born and -educated doctors who got a cheap education outside the country.
Yes, but that is not really acceptable from the "donor" countries' point of view. I heard a radio interview with a doctor who was educated here for 10 + years and then migrated to the US and was bragging about her huge pay, and I almost vomited. We pay maybe 3 mill + dollars into her education and she just runs off and gets rich on it? What a despicable person.
posted by mumimor at 9:03 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yes, but that is not really acceptable from the "donor" countries' point of view. I heard a radio interview with a doctor who was educated here for 10 + years and then migrated to the US and was bragging about her huge pay, and I almost vomited. We pay maybe 3 mill + dollars into her education and she just runs off and gets rich on it? What a despicable person.
posted by mumimor at 9:03 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
The article has two maps that show how this rate has grown, primarily in the southern part of the US, but up through Utah, California and Oregon, too.
The world is changing, fast, and some people are being left behind by those changes. In particular those with no education, and those in rural areas. Because agriculture, along with most low-skill work, has been automated. And yes, because of globalization as well, but in complicated ways. Even with tariffs and protectionism, the fact that airplanes and the internet exist means that the globalization genie can never fully but put back in the bottle.
But these folks cling to a patriarchal, insular culture which developed in another world, a culture of self reliance, of never asking for help... And now instead of accepting the help that is offered, they fight as hard as they can to put the world back the way it was... without understanding what changed it.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:04 AM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
The world is changing, fast, and some people are being left behind by those changes. In particular those with no education, and those in rural areas. Because agriculture, along with most low-skill work, has been automated. And yes, because of globalization as well, but in complicated ways. Even with tariffs and protectionism, the fact that airplanes and the internet exist means that the globalization genie can never fully but put back in the bottle.
But these folks cling to a patriarchal, insular culture which developed in another world, a culture of self reliance, of never asking for help... And now instead of accepting the help that is offered, they fight as hard as they can to put the world back the way it was... without understanding what changed it.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:04 AM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
And we can't get this shit fixed, because everything gets bundled with The Party's Health Plan, when it should have been a bipartisan issue.
Obama spent a year begging for Republican assistance to pass a Republican health plan. He got nothing but spite, deranged racist conspiracy theories and outright violent fantasies in return, continuing up to this very moment as the Republicans moved away from their own plan to a literal death cult.
We could've had a bipartisan discussion on health care like you want. We already did and Republicans showed nothing but bad faith. Next time there should be no bipartisanship. Ram through single payer and deal with the problems that arise, but the time for good faith negotiations with Repubclains came and went. They shouldn't ever be afforded another chance to sabotage health outcomes for the entire population in the name of "freedom" and billionaires tax cuts.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:04 AM on March 23, 2017 [105 favorites]
Obama spent a year begging for Republican assistance to pass a Republican health plan. He got nothing but spite, deranged racist conspiracy theories and outright violent fantasies in return, continuing up to this very moment as the Republicans moved away from their own plan to a literal death cult.
We could've had a bipartisan discussion on health care like you want. We already did and Republicans showed nothing but bad faith. Next time there should be no bipartisanship. Ram through single payer and deal with the problems that arise, but the time for good faith negotiations with Repubclains came and went. They shouldn't ever be afforded another chance to sabotage health outcomes for the entire population in the name of "freedom" and billionaires tax cuts.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:04 AM on March 23, 2017 [105 favorites]
Yes, but that is not really acceptable from the "donor" countries' point of view. I heard a radio interview with a doctor who was educated here for 10 + years and then migrated to the US and was bragging about her huge pay, and I almost vomited. We pay maybe 3 mill + dollars into her education and she just runs off and gets rich on it? What a despicable person.
Alternatively, you could think of it as a way to export all of your country's assholes.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:06 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Alternatively, you could think of it as a way to export all of your country's assholes.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:06 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Just to chime in specifically regarding the mental health sector of healthcare in the US, the problems there are much more complex than simply saying we need more providers. I know that people know this, but I just want to underscore that there are a lot of ways to drastically improve mental healthcare both in terms of serving more people and improving the quality of care.
The area I work in is trying to promote the integration of behavioral health into primary care. Primary care doctors are the de facto providers already - but we as a nation don't equip them or their practices to serve these needs effectively. There are so many reasons for this, and Payers are a HUGE factor. Other factors include sharing medical records (some may be surprised to learn that mental health related medical records are frequently siloed off and inaccessible), a lack of consideration for mental health issues as co-existing with chronic conditions / substance abuse disorder / etc, geographical resource distribution and a lack of support for alternative visit models, a culture that doesn't yet emphasize models targeted at the needs of specific populations, and so on and so on.
As it happens, there's a TON of good that is being done and can be done by 'providers' that are not MDs. Co-locating social workers, NPs, psych professionals, and so on can drastically increase quality of care and panel sizes for providers. Changing the culture and training properly for UME / Residency / Grad / CME programs are nascent - we haven't even really agreed on the best models and practices for these steps. We're working on it.
Unsurprisingly, gutting the ACA, Medicare, and so on is...unhelpful. Mental healthcare is a complex problem, but a solvable one - and it takes money, time, and people. That said, it's important to remember that magically increasing the number of doctors in the country isn't the only silver bullet - there's a lot we can do with the resources we already have, and a plethora of potential providers that don't need MDs to serve vulnerable populations.
posted by lazaruslong at 9:07 AM on March 23, 2017 [20 favorites]
The area I work in is trying to promote the integration of behavioral health into primary care. Primary care doctors are the de facto providers already - but we as a nation don't equip them or their practices to serve these needs effectively. There are so many reasons for this, and Payers are a HUGE factor. Other factors include sharing medical records (some may be surprised to learn that mental health related medical records are frequently siloed off and inaccessible), a lack of consideration for mental health issues as co-existing with chronic conditions / substance abuse disorder / etc, geographical resource distribution and a lack of support for alternative visit models, a culture that doesn't yet emphasize models targeted at the needs of specific populations, and so on and so on.
As it happens, there's a TON of good that is being done and can be done by 'providers' that are not MDs. Co-locating social workers, NPs, psych professionals, and so on can drastically increase quality of care and panel sizes for providers. Changing the culture and training properly for UME / Residency / Grad / CME programs are nascent - we haven't even really agreed on the best models and practices for these steps. We're working on it.
Unsurprisingly, gutting the ACA, Medicare, and so on is...unhelpful. Mental healthcare is a complex problem, but a solvable one - and it takes money, time, and people. That said, it's important to remember that magically increasing the number of doctors in the country isn't the only silver bullet - there's a lot we can do with the resources we already have, and a plethora of potential providers that don't need MDs to serve vulnerable populations.
posted by lazaruslong at 9:07 AM on March 23, 2017 [20 favorites]
"Bannon's saying he's kind of on a kamikaze mission where he is going to do everything he can possibly do and he doesn't expect that he'll last forever."
Judging by his outward appearance, this statement doesn't solely refer to his political ambitions.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:07 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
Judging by his outward appearance, this statement doesn't solely refer to his political ambitions.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:07 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
The idea that this is short-lived, not setting the tone for a long regime
I infer this to mean he'll grab the first chance he can to launch the nukes.
posted by archimago at 9:07 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
I infer this to mean he'll grab the first chance he can to launch the nukes.
posted by archimago at 9:07 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
video: Nunes is asked if he got the info he briefed the White House on from the White House
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:07 AM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:07 AM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
The idea that this is short-lived, not setting the tone for a long regime--that he's on a sprint and not a marathon, whatever other metaphors--is somewhat comforting to me.
You'll excuse me if I don't find "madman bent on destruction of government sits in White House, declares #YOLO" a comforting thought.
posted by Freon at 9:08 AM on March 23, 2017 [34 favorites]
You'll excuse me if I don't find "madman bent on destruction of government sits in White House, declares #YOLO" a comforting thought.
posted by Freon at 9:08 AM on March 23, 2017 [34 favorites]
I was worried the Muslim Bans would be an effort to get Canada to build its own wall, with Canadians angry at the influx of refugees. Instead, this piece on NPR gave me hope that 1) Canada has its shit together, and 2) they're continuing to treat people with dignity and respect, welcoming them in and helping them get established in their communities.
Don't get a false impression; this influx is big for us - it's a 48% increase from a year ago, and there's some brewing anger developing. I fear that as the weather warms, and brings with it an expected increase in illegal crossings (and/or, the discovery of some bodies in Manitoba of those who lost their way in the snow and cold), it's going to lead to some changes in policy. I hope for a suspension of the Safe Third Country Agreement so that folks crossing from the US can just go to a border crossing and surrender there, but I expect a growing fight about deportations and expulsions, especially as our Conservative Party is in a leadership contest with multiple mini-Trumps.
We're not some shining beacon of human rights here; we're going to struggle with this. Our fight to maintain a decent society (and there are those groups, like our Indigenous peoples, who can quite rightly say our society isn't all that decent already) is really just beginning.
posted by nubs at 9:09 AM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
Don't get a false impression; this influx is big for us - it's a 48% increase from a year ago, and there's some brewing anger developing. I fear that as the weather warms, and brings with it an expected increase in illegal crossings (and/or, the discovery of some bodies in Manitoba of those who lost their way in the snow and cold), it's going to lead to some changes in policy. I hope for a suspension of the Safe Third Country Agreement so that folks crossing from the US can just go to a border crossing and surrender there, but I expect a growing fight about deportations and expulsions, especially as our Conservative Party is in a leadership contest with multiple mini-Trumps.
We're not some shining beacon of human rights here; we're going to struggle with this. Our fight to maintain a decent society (and there are those groups, like our Indigenous peoples, who can quite rightly say our society isn't all that decent already) is really just beginning.
posted by nubs at 9:09 AM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
I infer this to mean he'll grab the first chance he can to launch the nukes.
He'd have to convince a somewhat demented 70 yo narcissist to do so. Bannon can't just "launch the nukes" by hitting a button or something.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:09 AM on March 23, 2017
He'd have to convince a somewhat demented 70 yo narcissist to do so. Bannon can't just "launch the nukes" by hitting a button or something.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:09 AM on March 23, 2017
Yup, the Republicans are a malignant cancer on America and need to be totally ignored, sidelined, and shut out until they can become sane again.
I'm utterly through with this bipartisan bullshit.
When we get a majority again (2020 please!) we need to just say "fuck it, we're not even going to try to make things attractive to Republicans, we're just going to fix the shit they broke". Single Payer, hardcore gerrymandering ban, massive changes to election funding laws, the works. They fucked it all up, we've got to fix it to save America, there is no point in inviting them to the table or trying to make the fix something they can tolerate.
If they complain tough shit. They had their chance for bipartisanship when Obama was there begging, for eight fucking solid years, for them to meet him somewhere, not even in the middle but somewhere far, far, far, to the right of the middle, and they told him to go fuck himself.
Republicans had a chance to be part of the solution, they chose instead to embrace hate and bigotry, so fuck 'em. No more bipartisanship, no more reaching out, just fix the damn problems and if the Republicans don't like it well, to be honest, I'm glad. Fuck 'em.
We don't need Republicans shitting in the soup.
posted by sotonohito at 9:10 AM on March 23, 2017 [71 favorites]
I'm utterly through with this bipartisan bullshit.
When we get a majority again (2020 please!) we need to just say "fuck it, we're not even going to try to make things attractive to Republicans, we're just going to fix the shit they broke". Single Payer, hardcore gerrymandering ban, massive changes to election funding laws, the works. They fucked it all up, we've got to fix it to save America, there is no point in inviting them to the table or trying to make the fix something they can tolerate.
If they complain tough shit. They had their chance for bipartisanship when Obama was there begging, for eight fucking solid years, for them to meet him somewhere, not even in the middle but somewhere far, far, far, to the right of the middle, and they told him to go fuck himself.
Republicans had a chance to be part of the solution, they chose instead to embrace hate and bigotry, so fuck 'em. No more bipartisanship, no more reaching out, just fix the damn problems and if the Republicans don't like it well, to be honest, I'm glad. Fuck 'em.
We don't need Republicans shitting in the soup.
posted by sotonohito at 9:10 AM on March 23, 2017 [71 favorites]
So they are going to vote on massive changes that have not been scored by the CBO?
Not only that, but I'd also bet a shiny new dome that holding the vote open long past time and offering abribe campaign contribution on the House floor won't even be the least of the shenanigans the Republicans try to pass this stinker.
posted by Gelatin at 9:10 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Not only that, but I'd also bet a shiny new dome that holding the vote open long past time and offering a
posted by Gelatin at 9:10 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Judging by his outward appearance, this statement doesn't solely refer to his political ambitions.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:07 AM
Epony-whatever...
posted by Sophie1 at 9:11 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Existential Dread at 9:07 AM
Epony-whatever...
posted by Sophie1 at 9:11 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
He'd have to convince a somewhat demented 70 yo narcissist to do so.
"It'll be fantastic. You'll go down in history. Everyone will love you. Do it."
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:11 AM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
"It'll be fantastic. You'll go down in history. Everyone will love you. Do it."
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:11 AM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
all the ways that the Republican party was supposed to destroy itself in the last year.
If you add everything since Bush The Second, anyone would expect the republicans to be a Chicxulub-sized crater all the way to the molten core by now. But republicans will just find the next issue single-issue conservatives will rally on and keep holding the keys to power, while democrats are still jumping to the next "surely this" moment.
The idea that a party needs morals and a coherent message is worth crap if their strategy is "Do you hate Mexicans? We hate Mexicans! Do you hate minorities? Oh my, we also hate minorities! Do you want to piss off liberals? So do we! Do you hate babykillers? Oh, we have so much in common!"
posted by lmfsilva at 9:14 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
If you add everything since Bush The Second, anyone would expect the republicans to be a Chicxulub-sized crater all the way to the molten core by now. But republicans will just find the next issue single-issue conservatives will rally on and keep holding the keys to power, while democrats are still jumping to the next "surely this" moment.
The idea that a party needs morals and a coherent message is worth crap if their strategy is "Do you hate Mexicans? We hate Mexicans! Do you hate minorities? Oh my, we also hate minorities! Do you want to piss off liberals? So do we! Do you hate babykillers? Oh, we have so much in common!"
posted by lmfsilva at 9:14 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
He'd have to convince a somewhat demented 70 yo narcissist to do so.
All it would take is Bannon making sure he's the last person in the room with him.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:15 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
All it would take is Bannon making sure he's the last person in the room with him.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:15 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Trudeau screwed up by not moving to get rid of Safe Third Country. America can no longer meet its obligations under this agreement.
posted by Yowser at 9:17 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Yowser at 9:17 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
video: Nunes is asked if he got the info he briefed the White House on from the White House
What are the odds it actually comes from FOX or Brietbart in some kind of circular human centipede?
posted by Artw at 9:17 AM on March 23, 2017
What are the odds it actually comes from FOX or Brietbart in some kind of circular human centipede?
posted by Artw at 9:17 AM on March 23, 2017
sotonohito - can I humbly suggest you take a break? The fight will go on without you, and you sound like you could use some fresh air and sunshine.
posted by H. Roark at 9:17 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by H. Roark at 9:17 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
some kind of circular human centipede
What's the Greek word for rule by fecal ouroboros?
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:20 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
What's the Greek word for rule by fecal ouroboros?
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:20 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
> What's the Greek word for rule by fecal ouroboros?
Kakastocracy.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:22 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
Kakastocracy.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:22 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
> What's the Greek word for rule by fecal ouroboros?
Kakastocracy.
Coprogarchy
posted by Existential Dread at 9:24 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
Kakastocracy.
Coprogarchy
posted by Existential Dread at 9:24 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
New Quinnipiac poll:
Americans disapprove of Trumpcare 56-17.
Only 41% of REPUBLICANS approve.
posted by chris24 at 9:26 AM on March 23, 2017 [53 favorites]
Americans disapprove of Trumpcare 56-17.
Only 41% of REPUBLICANS approve.
posted by chris24 at 9:26 AM on March 23, 2017 [53 favorites]
So according to the Freedom Coalition, Obama took away our freedom to he able to buy insurance that covers nothing?
Yes and I believe that's what created the whole "if you like your insurance you can keep it" debacle. They hadn't counted on so many people actually liking their old insurance that covered nothing, because you couldn't keep a plan like that and people were pissed.
I don't think it was even so much liking nigh-worthless plans, but the fact that their replacements, being actual insurance, cost more money. Still, it's astonishing that Democrats failed so badly at actually pointing that fact out.
posted by Gelatin at 9:26 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yes and I believe that's what created the whole "if you like your insurance you can keep it" debacle. They hadn't counted on so many people actually liking their old insurance that covered nothing, because you couldn't keep a plan like that and people were pissed.
I don't think it was even so much liking nigh-worthless plans, but the fact that their replacements, being actual insurance, cost more money. Still, it's astonishing that Democrats failed so badly at actually pointing that fact out.
posted by Gelatin at 9:26 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Putting in my vote for future historians (knock on wood) to designate us as a "Rogerstoneian Coprogarchy."
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:27 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:27 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
The huge cost of med school in the US is a real problem, though. Why would someone with a huge debt choose to serve in a small rural hospital?
Physician salaries are actually higher in rural areas because there is less competition. But most (not all) high income people would rather live in cities because that is where all the cool stuff is. So the idea that school debt is driving rural shortages is false. In fact, there are debt-forgiveness programs for serving in high-need rural areas. Most physicians would rather earn less money but live in or near desirable cities. They choose not to serve in small rural hospitals because of the poorer quality of life.
posted by JackFlash at 9:31 AM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
Physician salaries are actually higher in rural areas because there is less competition. But most (not all) high income people would rather live in cities because that is where all the cool stuff is. So the idea that school debt is driving rural shortages is false. In fact, there are debt-forgiveness programs for serving in high-need rural areas. Most physicians would rather earn less money but live in or near desirable cities. They choose not to serve in small rural hospitals because of the poorer quality of life.
posted by JackFlash at 9:31 AM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
I was worried the Muslim Bans would be an effort to get Canada to build its own wall, with Canadians angry at the influx of refugees. Instead, this piece on NPR gave me hope that 1) Canada has its shit together, and 2) they're continuing to treat people with dignity and respect, welcoming them in and helping them get established in their communities.
As long as America treats refugees like shit Canada will make a very conspicuous effort to treat them well. Being smugly morally better than American's is so core to our identity that we will go great lengths to prove it.
posted by srboisvert at 9:32 AM on March 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
As long as America treats refugees like shit Canada will make a very conspicuous effort to treat them well. Being smugly morally better than American's is so core to our identity that we will go great lengths to prove it.
posted by srboisvert at 9:32 AM on March 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
Can I humbly suggest you take a break? The fight will go on without you, and you sound like you could use some fresh air and sunshine.
Can I humbly suggest that if you don't like sotonohito's posts, you just give them a miss? I think what he's saying is the most dead on stuff I've read in months, here or anywhere else, and I don't think he needs to shut up and go outside just because he's stressing you out or whatever the problem is.
posted by holborne at 9:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [56 favorites]
Can I humbly suggest that if you don't like sotonohito's posts, you just give them a miss? I think what he's saying is the most dead on stuff I've read in months, here or anywhere else, and I don't think he needs to shut up and go outside just because he's stressing you out or whatever the problem is.
posted by holborne at 9:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [56 favorites]
Jennifer Rubin, WaPo: Republicans’ truth deficit will destroy the party
I have to say, I've been quite impressed by Jennifer Rubin since last year. While I don't agree with a lot of her policy ideas, she's been consistently against the loser sitting in the Oval Office, and that sure counts for something in my book. Glad to have her on our side.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
I have to say, I've been quite impressed by Jennifer Rubin since last year. While I don't agree with a lot of her policy ideas, she's been consistently against the loser sitting in the Oval Office, and that sure counts for something in my book. Glad to have her on our side.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
if you don't like sotonohito's posts, you just give them a miss
I absolutely 100% agree with his/her sentiments. I just want everyone playing the long game.
posted by H. Roark at 9:38 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
I absolutely 100% agree with his/her sentiments. I just want everyone playing the long game.
posted by H. Roark at 9:38 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
He'd have to convince a somewhat demented 70 yo narcissist to do so. Bannon can't just "launch the nukes" by hitting a button or something.
That's a comforting way to put it.
posted by spitbull at 9:39 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
That's a comforting way to put it.
posted by spitbull at 9:39 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
He'd have to convince a somewhat demented 70 yo narcissist to do so.
"It'll be fantastic. You'll go down in history. Everyone will love you. Do it."
We're fucked.
posted by zarq at 9:47 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
"It'll be fantastic. You'll go down in history. Everyone will love you. Do it."
We're fucked.
posted by zarq at 9:47 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
GOP want America to be the best!
All evidence to the contrary.
Seriously, you actually still believe that?
posted by rocket88 at 9:47 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
All evidence to the contrary.
Seriously, you actually still believe that?
posted by rocket88 at 9:47 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
I just want everyone playing the long game.
From my limited understanding of 11-dimensional chess, a successful campaign employees both strategic and tactical maneuvers.
posted by erisfree at 9:49 AM on March 23, 2017
From my limited understanding of 11-dimensional chess, a successful campaign employees both strategic and tactical maneuvers.
posted by erisfree at 9:49 AM on March 23, 2017
As far as I can tell, sotonohito wants to play the long game too. Get the traitors out of office, take back congress, take back the white house, claim the stolen supreme court seat, end gerrymandering and voter suppression efforts, destroy the death-cult republican party and salt the earth from whence it came. That's a long enough game for me. And I'm in.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 9:51 AM on March 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by the turtle's teeth at 9:51 AM on March 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
I don't think anyone cares except the people who weren't voting Republican in the first place.
But that's fine, because the people who weren't voting Republican in the first place dramatically outnumber the people who vote Republican. We don't have to convince even a single Republican voter to switch sides in order to blow them out of every election forever; all we have to do is mobilize some of the huge number of Americans who generally haven't voted or participated in the political process. Thankfully, we're seeing some of this happen already.
And that's a really good thing, because let's be honest here: people who vote Republican are only able to do so because they literally don't believe that facts or truth are important, because they don't think actual outcomes or other human beings actually matter, and because they don't understand how logic and argumentation work. Even when it seems like they're trying to be nice, the best they can do is bad-faith discussion that assumes that anyone who disagrees with them MUST be wrong prima facie even when all the facts are against them. You can see this all over the internet. Evidence-based approaches don't work, logical approaches don't work... occasionally you can get a Republican to switch sides on an issue if the people on their side hurt their feelings or scare them first, but that just means that the moment someone on this side hurts their feelings they'll switch right back. These people are not useful for crafting policy or leading. These people can only help others when it feels good to them. From an outcomes perspective we don't actually want these people having any say at all, frankly, but this is America and we extend to them the same courtesy that we extend to Snot Boogie. That said, we're never going to convince them to come over to our side or to do good in any reasonably permanent way, because they literally do not even believe in the existence of the things that are important to doing good.
posted by IAmUnaware at 9:54 AM on March 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
But that's fine, because the people who weren't voting Republican in the first place dramatically outnumber the people who vote Republican. We don't have to convince even a single Republican voter to switch sides in order to blow them out of every election forever; all we have to do is mobilize some of the huge number of Americans who generally haven't voted or participated in the political process. Thankfully, we're seeing some of this happen already.
And that's a really good thing, because let's be honest here: people who vote Republican are only able to do so because they literally don't believe that facts or truth are important, because they don't think actual outcomes or other human beings actually matter, and because they don't understand how logic and argumentation work. Even when it seems like they're trying to be nice, the best they can do is bad-faith discussion that assumes that anyone who disagrees with them MUST be wrong prima facie even when all the facts are against them. You can see this all over the internet. Evidence-based approaches don't work, logical approaches don't work... occasionally you can get a Republican to switch sides on an issue if the people on their side hurt their feelings or scare them first, but that just means that the moment someone on this side hurts their feelings they'll switch right back. These people are not useful for crafting policy or leading. These people can only help others when it feels good to them. From an outcomes perspective we don't actually want these people having any say at all, frankly, but this is America and we extend to them the same courtesy that we extend to Snot Boogie. That said, we're never going to convince them to come over to our side or to do good in any reasonably permanent way, because they literally do not even believe in the existence of the things that are important to doing good.
posted by IAmUnaware at 9:54 AM on March 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
Let's not make this about me please. Though I appreciate the support, I'm not offended by H. Roark's request that I GTFO for a while, I can be an obnoxious and abrasive motherfucker sometimes and I'm aware of it. Long threads don't need derailments about me.
posted by sotonohito at 9:54 AM on March 23, 2017 [38 favorites]
posted by sotonohito at 9:54 AM on March 23, 2017 [38 favorites]
Private insurance can coexist along with single payer, as it does in Italy. You're universally covered but you're free to buy private insurance or free to pay out of pocket for any visit you'd like.
Same in UK. I get private medical insurance through work as part of my benefits, but I still go see the GP for anything that's urgent. I've used the private for physio for an old whiplash injury that still gives me a stiff back, some psychiatric stuff because it was quicker (there's an issue with the NHS in terms of parity of esteem between physical and mental health at times), and I think that's it.
I've had burns, eye infections, broken bones, concussion and other stuff all treated on the NHS. As far as I can figure the difference between here and the US system is that anyone's got access to treatment, it might take a bit longer than private if it's not urgent, and we pay less overall on medical spending as a country. Perfectly happy with that.
posted by MattWPBS at 9:56 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Same in UK. I get private medical insurance through work as part of my benefits, but I still go see the GP for anything that's urgent. I've used the private for physio for an old whiplash injury that still gives me a stiff back, some psychiatric stuff because it was quicker (there's an issue with the NHS in terms of parity of esteem between physical and mental health at times), and I think that's it.
I've had burns, eye infections, broken bones, concussion and other stuff all treated on the NHS. As far as I can figure the difference between here and the US system is that anyone's got access to treatment, it might take a bit longer than private if it's not urgent, and we pay less overall on medical spending as a country. Perfectly happy with that.
posted by MattWPBS at 9:56 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Schumer just announced on the Senate floor that he's voting no on Gorsuch and that McConnell will need to get 60 votes or get rid of the filibuster if he wants Gorsuch confirmed.
I would not over-read this statement. Schumer is not promising a filibuster will suceed. He is just saying that McConnell will need 60 votes. McConnell can get that if eight Democrats cross over, which is not far fetched.
posted by JackFlash at 9:57 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
I would not over-read this statement. Schumer is not promising a filibuster will suceed. He is just saying that McConnell will need 60 votes. McConnell can get that if eight Democrats cross over, which is not far fetched.
posted by JackFlash at 9:57 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Vladimir Putin covers Radiohead's "Creep" in front of live audience.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
First, if you live in a district where you are represented by a Republican, stop whatever you're doing (I will accept a brief delay if you're operating a nuclear reactor––wait, why are you reading this?) call them right now to ask them to oppose the AHCA. It's getting down to last chance time.
Second, goddamn John Bolton is at the White House. Rumor is that Trump wants to give him a job.
Third, the crosstabs on that Quinnipiac poll are brutal for Trump. AHCA is -26 among non-college whites, -46 for voters 50-64. His base is well aware how badly this bill is screwing them over.
posted by zachlipton at 9:59 AM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
Second, goddamn John Bolton is at the White House. Rumor is that Trump wants to give him a job.
Third, the crosstabs on that Quinnipiac poll are brutal for Trump. AHCA is -26 among non-college whites, -46 for voters 50-64. His base is well aware how badly this bill is screwing them over.
posted by zachlipton at 9:59 AM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
McConnell can get that if eight Democrats cross over, which is not far fetched.
I think we need to start beating the drum hard that Gorsuch believes miners would be the ones at fault for being underground when a collapse happens.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 10:02 AM on March 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
I think we need to start beating the drum hard that Gorsuch believes miners would be the ones at fault for being underground when a collapse happens.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 10:02 AM on March 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
Pissed off about Devin Nunes screwing with an ongoing federal investigation into the executive's alleged collusion with Russia? Here's a script for calls or letters to your House Rep!
Devin Nunes, House Intelligence Committee chair, is unfit to conduct an investigation into Trump's collusion with Russia. Yesterday, Nunes:posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:03 AM on March 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
- Informed the subject of an on-going federal investigation of the details of the investigation.
- Did so unilaterally, without informing his own caucus of his findings or consulting Ranking Member Schiff whether it was appropriate to do.
- Compromised the ability of the Congress to conduct a credible investigation into Trump's collusion with Russia.
- Disclosed classified information about FISA warrants to the press, after complaining about similar leaks in the hearing with FBI Director Comey.
Nunes must therefore recuse himself from any aspect of investigating Donald Trump's collusion with Russia. Nunes should also be investigated for any role he may have had in colluding with Russia, given that he was a member of Trump's transition team.
I call on the Representative to condemn these actions in the strong possible terms and demand Nunes recusal from the investigation and removal from his position on the House Intelligence Committee.
McConnell can get that if eight Democrats cross over, which is not far fetched.
While not far fetched, I'd say it got much more difficult now. If Schumer had stayed uncommitted then it was pretty obvious that McConnell would find his 60 votes, but by jumping in here he is demanding Democratic Senators to go against the official Democratic Party line. Are there 8 Senators willing to defect? Maybe. But the price of that defection just went up significantly.
posted by Glibpaxman at 10:07 AM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
While not far fetched, I'd say it got much more difficult now. If Schumer had stayed uncommitted then it was pretty obvious that McConnell would find his 60 votes, but by jumping in here he is demanding Democratic Senators to go against the official Democratic Party line. Are there 8 Senators willing to defect? Maybe. But the price of that defection just went up significantly.
posted by Glibpaxman at 10:07 AM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
I asked Sen. Roberts if he supports scrapping Essential Health Benefits. "I wouldn't want to lose my mammograms," he snarked. #AHCA
#@%U()JDSFLHDSKL:FVHN@!#LK%H!@#LK%RTN!QALKW:
IT'S LITERALLY "FUCK YOU GOT MINE!"
posted by Talez at 10:10 AM on March 23, 2017 [93 favorites]
#@%U()JDSFLHDSKL:FVHN@!#LK%H!@#LK%RTN!QALKW:
IT'S LITERALLY "FUCK YOU GOT MINE!"
posted by Talez at 10:10 AM on March 23, 2017 [93 favorites]
Vladimir Putin covers Radiohead's "Creep" yt in front of live audience.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:58 AM on March 23 [+] [!]
This was a bad week to quit pot.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:10 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:58 AM on March 23 [+] [!]
This was a bad week to quit pot.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:10 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
It's also "I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW INSURANCE WORKS"
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:10 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:10 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
He also doesn't understand what's breasts are.
May he get incurable breast cancer.
posted by Yowser at 10:14 AM on March 23, 2017 [50 favorites]
May he get incurable breast cancer.
posted by Yowser at 10:14 AM on March 23, 2017 [50 favorites]
Am I reading too much into the vote today? It seems like Trump and Ryan have made it a kind of personal loyalty test by pushing so hard. If it fails, the chances of impeachment will jump significantly as Republican Congressmen realize that they can rebuke the leaders. They'd also start feeling like the ship is sinking so I better do what I can to save my own ass, right?
On the other hand if it succeeds we have to rely on the Senate to save us. Jebus.
posted by Glibpaxman at 10:15 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
On the other hand if it succeeds we have to rely on the Senate to save us. Jebus.
posted by Glibpaxman at 10:15 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
I bet he thinks his federally-funded Viagra coverage should remain in place though.
posted by zachlipton at 10:15 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:15 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
"I wouldn't want to lose my mammograms"
It would be nice if every woman in his life - mother, sister, wife, cousin, daughter, staffer, intern - could disown him in a public way. He should be shunned by society. Seriously, what would it take?
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:16 AM on March 23, 2017 [38 favorites]
It would be nice if every woman in his life - mother, sister, wife, cousin, daughter, staffer, intern - could disown him in a public way. He should be shunned by society. Seriously, what would it take?
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:16 AM on March 23, 2017 [38 favorites]
Schumer is not promising a filibuster will suceed.I mean, that's good, because I am promising you that a filibuster will fail. Gorsuch is going to be confirmed. This is just about how it happens.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:16 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
It would be nice if every woman in his life
Men can and do get breast cancer.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:18 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
Men can and do get breast cancer.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:18 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
"I wouldn't want to lose my mammograms"
How about your colonoscopy benefits, you everloving shithead? Oh wait, your head's so far up your ass you don't need to go to the clinic. God, if there were only a way to ensure that Paul Ryan, this chucklefuck, and every other Congressperson had to survive on the health insurance they provide to the least of their constituency.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:19 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
How about your colonoscopy benefits, you everloving shithead? Oh wait, your head's so far up your ass you don't need to go to the clinic. God, if there were only a way to ensure that Paul Ryan, this chucklefuck, and every other Congressperson had to survive on the health insurance they provide to the least of their constituency.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:19 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm starting to think the Koch Bros "We'll SuperPAC you to death if you vote AHCA" plan is getting clearer. AHCA fails, Trump goes ballistic and House votes to impeach Trump/Pence based on Russia connections to save themselves from his reprecussions. That puts Chief Granny-starver and Randian-in-Residence in charge of the whole shebang so they can roll out the true Objectivist nightmares.
posted by Freon at 10:20 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Freon at 10:20 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
I asked Sen. Roberts if he supports scrapping Essential Health Benefits. "I wouldn't want to lose my mammograms," he snarked. #AHCA
This year, an estimated 2,600 men in the United States will be diagnosed with breast cancer. It is estimated 440 men will die from breast cancer this year... For the earliest stages of breast cancer in men, stages 0 and I (zero and 1), the 5-year survival rate is 100%. The 5-year survival rate for men with stage II (2) disease is 91% and stage III (3) disease is 72%...The 5-year survival rate for men with stage IV breast cancer is 20%. A doctor may recommend screening mammography for men with a genetic mutation that increases the risk of developing the disease.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:21 AM on March 23, 2017 [29 favorites]
This year, an estimated 2,600 men in the United States will be diagnosed with breast cancer. It is estimated 440 men will die from breast cancer this year... For the earliest stages of breast cancer in men, stages 0 and I (zero and 1), the 5-year survival rate is 100%. The 5-year survival rate for men with stage II (2) disease is 91% and stage III (3) disease is 72%...The 5-year survival rate for men with stage IV breast cancer is 20%. A doctor may recommend screening mammography for men with a genetic mutation that increases the risk of developing the disease.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:21 AM on March 23, 2017 [29 favorites]
Jesus H. I am a person who got breast cancer at 38 and right now I'm full on hyperventilating in rage.
posted by something something at 10:21 AM on March 23, 2017 [31 favorites]
posted by something something at 10:21 AM on March 23, 2017 [31 favorites]
Schumer just announced on the Senate floor that he's voting no on Gorsuch and that McConnell will need to get 60 votes or get rid of the filibuster if he wants Gorsuch confirmed.
Good for Schumer. The Republicans shouldn't be rewarded for stealing Obama's SCOTUS pick. As for Democrats defecting, I am not exactly seeing a strong tide toward increasing approval of Republicans in general, let alone Trump in particular.
posted by Gelatin at 10:22 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Good for Schumer. The Republicans shouldn't be rewarded for stealing Obama's SCOTUS pick. As for Democrats defecting, I am not exactly seeing a strong tide toward increasing approval of Republicans in general, let alone Trump in particular.
posted by Gelatin at 10:22 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Men can and do get breast cancer.
Not only that, but men are less likely to have their breast cancer caught at an early stage because they don't get mammograms and ignore warning signs that women are repeatedly told to be on the lookout for.
posted by dinty_moore at 10:22 AM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
Not only that, but men are less likely to have their breast cancer caught at an early stage because they don't get mammograms and ignore warning signs that women are repeatedly told to be on the lookout for.
posted by dinty_moore at 10:22 AM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
I am amending my third wish once more. Now I want Jean Grey Phoenix powers for a day.
You'll know if it works.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:24 AM on March 23, 2017 [41 favorites]
You'll know if it works.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:24 AM on March 23, 2017 [41 favorites]
I asked Sen. Roberts if he supports scrapping Essential Health Benefits. "I wouldn't want to lose my mammograms," he snarked.
Also, like all members of Congress, including the member of the so-called "Freedom Caucus" smirking smugly to NPR about not believing in government funded health care, he already gets gold-plated health insurance courtesy the US taxpayer.
No, of course the NPR interviewer didn't point that fact out to their listeners.
posted by Gelatin at 10:24 AM on March 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
Also, like all members of Congress, including the member of the so-called "Freedom Caucus" smirking smugly to NPR about not believing in government funded health care, he already gets gold-plated health insurance courtesy the US taxpayer.
No, of course the NPR interviewer didn't point that fact out to their listeners.
posted by Gelatin at 10:24 AM on March 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
"If it fails, the chances of impeachment will jump significantly as Republican Congressmen realize that they can rebuke the leaders."
If I understand the nature of the Republican opposition to AHCA, those emboldened Republican Congressmen you refer to are the ones most craven, and least likely to abide impeachment.
posted by klarck at 10:25 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
If I understand the nature of the Republican opposition to AHCA, those emboldened Republican Congressmen you refer to are the ones most craven, and least likely to abide impeachment.
posted by klarck at 10:25 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
I was promised squirrels today, and AARP has delivered. And they're wearing ties, as all good squirrels do when they go to the Hill.
Once they're done here, can we pay them to just follow Nunes around all day long?
posted by zachlipton at 10:25 AM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
Once they're done here, can we pay them to just follow Nunes around all day long?
posted by zachlipton at 10:25 AM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
Without coverage for breast cancer treatment and screening I would have had to pay $700,000 ($700,000!) for one year of treatment for my "curable" Stage I cancer. And then I would have declared bankruptcy and lost everything and the government would have ended up giving me money to so I didn't starve as a homeless penniless person. Fuck you, Senator Roberts. This short-sighted meanspiritedness is just fucking stupid more than anything else. He is a stupid, mean old man.
posted by something something at 10:25 AM on March 23, 2017 [69 favorites]
posted by something something at 10:25 AM on March 23, 2017 [69 favorites]
I'd like to introduce an amendment to RepubliCare that stipulates that all members of Congress must get, and pay out of their own pocket, the **LOWEST RATED** insurance program available to the general public. If they're permitting programs where you pay $10 a month and only cover being trampled by zebras and the only in network provider is an unqualified NP 500 miles away then that's what they have to buy.
They would be utterly and completely forbidden from getting any assistance with health problems,, from using any other insurance, and so forth. If something comes up not covered by their insurance (or if they go to an out of network provider) then they pay the full price.
Mostly they're old in Congress, they've got lots of serious health problems. Even the richer ones would start feeling the pinch sooner or later.
posted by sotonohito at 10:25 AM on March 23, 2017 [53 favorites]
They would be utterly and completely forbidden from getting any assistance with health problems,, from using any other insurance, and so forth. If something comes up not covered by their insurance (or if they go to an out of network provider) then they pay the full price.
Mostly they're old in Congress, they've got lots of serious health problems. Even the richer ones would start feeling the pinch sooner or later.
posted by sotonohito at 10:25 AM on March 23, 2017 [53 favorites]
Male here. No breast cancer, but a benign lump meant I had to step up to the tit-press in my 20's.
Fuck that guy.
posted by ocschwar at 10:27 AM on March 23, 2017 [29 favorites]
Fuck that guy.
posted by ocschwar at 10:27 AM on March 23, 2017 [29 favorites]
I'm a doctor in a small private practice in the south. Today, I had a small but important victory I wanted to share.
I successfully lobbied the other three doctors and the practice manager to put the waiting room TV on ANYTHING BUT Fox News, which it has been on continuously for about 5 years. We settled on the Travel Channel, but if the front desk gets bored with that, they are allowed to change it to anything they want.
Here's what I'd like to ask the group: if a patient asks for it to be changed to Fox News, which they have in the past, what should the front desk say to them?
(A) I'm sorry, we find that station to be too polarizing for our diverse patient cohort.
(B) That channel doesn't have very good reception. May I recommend Animal Planet instead?
(C) GET THE FUCK OUT OF THIS OFFICE, YOU TRUMP-LOVING SHITGIBBON!
(D) I'm so sorry, we have misplaced the remote.
Other suggestions also accepted.
posted by Fritzle at 10:29 AM on March 23, 2017 [85 favorites]
I successfully lobbied the other three doctors and the practice manager to put the waiting room TV on ANYTHING BUT Fox News, which it has been on continuously for about 5 years. We settled on the Travel Channel, but if the front desk gets bored with that, they are allowed to change it to anything they want.
Here's what I'd like to ask the group: if a patient asks for it to be changed to Fox News, which they have in the past, what should the front desk say to them?
(A) I'm sorry, we find that station to be too polarizing for our diverse patient cohort.
(B) That channel doesn't have very good reception. May I recommend Animal Planet instead?
(C) GET THE FUCK OUT OF THIS OFFICE, YOU TRUMP-LOVING SHITGIBBON!
(D) I'm so sorry, we have misplaced the remote.
Other suggestions also accepted.
posted by Fritzle at 10:29 AM on March 23, 2017 [85 favorites]
if a patient asks for it to be changed to Fox News, which they have in the past, what should the front desk say to them?
"I'm sorry, that won't be possible."
posted by Etrigan at 10:30 AM on March 23, 2017 [43 favorites]
"I'm sorry, that won't be possible."
posted by Etrigan at 10:30 AM on March 23, 2017 [43 favorites]
I'm down with choice C. Or, if they're over 30, maybe something more Logan's Run in nature.
posted by maxwelton at 10:31 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by maxwelton at 10:31 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I vote for "I'm sorry, we're not allowed by corporate to change the channel."
It's vague and authoritarian, so Fox News watchers should love it.
posted by winna at 10:31 AM on March 23, 2017 [57 favorites]
It's vague and authoritarian, so Fox News watchers should love it.
posted by winna at 10:31 AM on March 23, 2017 [57 favorites]
Male here. No breast cancer, but a benign lump meant I had to step up to the tit-press in my 20's.
Same here. 8 years ago I was lactating from my left breast. Did a mammogram and they found a lump - went under the knife to get it removed. Turns out I had prolactinoma which is now kept in check with cabergoline.
posted by porn in the woods at 10:32 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Same here. 8 years ago I was lactating from my left breast. Did a mammogram and they found a lump - went under the knife to get it removed. Turns out I had prolactinoma which is now kept in check with cabergoline.
posted by porn in the woods at 10:32 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
if a patient asks for it to be changed to Fox News
Just Say No.
posted by kingless at 10:32 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Just Say No.
posted by kingless at 10:32 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
I would ban all 24 hour news channels and tell them that you realized that watching the news was stressing people out and distorting their blood pressure measurements. Because seriously, my blood pressure would look like I was about to spontaneously combust if I had to watch Fox New (or most other news, these days) in my doctor's waiting room.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:32 AM on March 23, 2017 [67 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:32 AM on March 23, 2017 [67 favorites]
I'd go with (D) I'm so sorry, we have misplaced the remote..
Or maybe mentioning that news might not be great for people who are about to have their blood pressure pressure taken, and trying for a more relaxing atmosphere.
posted by dinty_moore at 10:32 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Or maybe mentioning that news might not be great for people who are about to have their blood pressure pressure taken, and trying for a more relaxing atmosphere.
posted by dinty_moore at 10:32 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
if a patient asks for it to be changed to Fox News
"Perhaps you'd prefer Russia Today?"
posted by Existential Dread at 10:33 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
"Perhaps you'd prefer Russia Today?"
posted by Existential Dread at 10:33 AM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
And then I would have declared bankruptcy and lost everything and the government would have ended up giving me money to so I didn't starve as a homeless penniless person.
Well, to be fair, the Republicans in general also don't want Big Government to prevent you from starving as a homeless penniless person, so...
posted by foxfirefey at 10:34 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well, to be fair, the Republicans in general also don't want Big Government to prevent you from starving as a homeless penniless person, so...
posted by foxfirefey at 10:34 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Looks like AHCA is failing with both Teahadists and Moderates.
When is this vote going down, do we know?
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:35 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
When is this vote going down, do we know?
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:35 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
I asked Sen. Roberts if he supports scrapping Essential Health Benefits. "I wouldn't want to lose my mammograms," he snarked.
In fairness, only mammals need mammograms.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [32 favorites]
In fairness, only mammals need mammograms.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [32 favorites]
Can we make squirrels the official mascot of something here? Those costumes are a delight.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Freedom Caucus says that "the closer" didn't close and no deal was reached. A leadership meeting is happening now. Unclear if there's even going to be a vote.
posted by zachlipton at 10:39 AM on March 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:39 AM on March 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
AP just now: BREAKING: House Freedom Caucus chairman says "no deal" reached on health bill after meeting with Trump, putting vote in doubt.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:39 AM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 10:39 AM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
Male here. No breast cancer, but a benign lump meant I had to step up to the tit-press in my 20's.
Male here as well. I had gynecomastia in one breast as a teenager. Had to get a mammogram and afterwards a softball sized mast removed.
posted by mmascolino at 10:39 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Male here as well. I had gynecomastia in one breast as a teenager. Had to get a mammogram and afterwards a softball sized mast removed.
posted by mmascolino at 10:39 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Re: Fox News in waiting areas...A few months ago I was in the waiting area at the dealer while my cars was being worked on. The TV was on Fox News. I tried to tune it out while reading a book on my tablet, but it was too much to bear. I just got up, walked to the cable box, and manually changed the channel (to the Weather Channel, I believe). As I was walking back to my seat, a lady gave me a big smile and a "Thank you!"
posted by zakur at 10:40 AM on March 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by zakur at 10:40 AM on March 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
Fuck you, Senator Roberts. This short-sighted meanspiritedness is just fucking stupid more than anything else. He is a stupid, mean old man.
He's also the chucklefuck who offered Ron Wyden a Valium after Wyden spoke out against Steve Mnuchin at his confirmation hearing.
posted by indubitable at 10:41 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
He's also the chucklefuck who offered Ron Wyden a Valium after Wyden spoke out against Steve Mnuchin at his confirmation hearing.
posted by indubitable at 10:41 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
So what comes first: Ryan saying AHCA is dead or Trump decrying the loser AHCA that he never liked?
posted by Etrigan at 10:41 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 10:41 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
> AP just now: BREAKING: House Freedom Caucus chairman says "no deal" reached on health bill after meeting with Trump, putting vote in doubt.
But I thought Trump was the master deal maker???
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:41 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
But I thought Trump was the master deal maker???
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:41 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Did Spicey just say "a readout on that mess... uh, meeting"?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:47 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:47 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Fox News Cut Away Early From James Comey Hearing, Lost 29 Percent of Viewers
posted by futz at 10:47 AM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by futz at 10:47 AM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
Spicer is whining about unprecedented filibuster of a Supreme Court nominee.
Republicans. Whining about obstruction. Fuck these people. They proved the American people reward obstruction, not punish. Reap what you've sown, fuckers.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [66 favorites]
Republicans. Whining about obstruction. Fuck these people. They proved the American people reward obstruction, not punish. Reap what you've sown, fuckers.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [66 favorites]
Trump can only make deals with banks he owes by giving them ownership interests in his enterprises. Too bad he can't sell the Republicans part of the White House.
posted by Room 101 at 10:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Room 101 at 10:48 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Republicans. Whining about obstruction. Fuck these people. They proved the American people reward obstruction, not punish.
The Republicans certainly proved the political press won't punish unprecedented obstructionism of a President's SCOTUS pick, so it's particularly lame for Spicer to try to play that card with them now.
posted by Gelatin at 10:50 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Republicans certainly proved the political press won't punish unprecedented obstructionism of a President's SCOTUS pick, so it's particularly lame for Spicer to try to play that card with them now.
posted by Gelatin at 10:50 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I also wonder if Spicer whining about obstructionism is a signal that McConnell may not be able to break the filibuster. It's definitely reaping what they've sown, yes.
posted by Gelatin at 10:52 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Gelatin at 10:52 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
The Republicans certainly proved the political press won't punish unprecedented obstructionism of a President's SCOTUS pick, so it's particularly lame for Spicer to try to play that card with them now.
Don't be shocked if the political press comes down with a case of IOKIYAR and does punish the dems for obstructionism.
posted by drezdn at 10:52 AM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
Don't be shocked if the political press comes down with a case of IOKIYAR and does punish the dems for obstructionism.
posted by drezdn at 10:52 AM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
@SenPatRoberts: I deeply regret my comments on a very important topic. Mammograms are essential to women's health & I never intended to indicate otherwise.
@RepSpeier: .@AliceOllstein @SenPatRoberts I don't want to lose my prostate cancer screenings either. #AHCA #Trumpcare
posted by Existential Dread at 10:57 AM on March 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
@RepSpeier: .@AliceOllstein @SenPatRoberts I don't want to lose my prostate cancer screenings either. #AHCA #Trumpcare
posted by Existential Dread at 10:57 AM on March 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
AP just now: BREAKING: House Freedom Caucus chairman says "no deal" reached on health bill after meeting with Trump, putting vote in doubt.
I more than half expect them to cancel the vote entirely at this point.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:57 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I more than half expect them to cancel the vote entirely at this point.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:57 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
In the past that's definitely what would have happened but I don't know. I feel like social media has had an impact on the political press. It won't change what FoxNews says but it might for CNN.
It'll be interesting to see.
posted by asteria at 10:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
It'll be interesting to see.
posted by asteria at 10:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Spicer keeps talking about "young people" having to buy coverage for end of life care, as if young people never ever can die.
posted by zachlipton at 10:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 10:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
Don't be shocked if the political press comes down with a case of IOKIYAR and does punish the dems for obstructionism.
Well, of course Fox will, but any Democrat with even an ounce of messaging sense -- which, I admit, may be something of a long shot -- only has to say "uh, Garland?" when asked for comment. Better yet they could use the opportunity to question Trump's legitimacy and the increasing scandal trouble and quip about the McConnell standard of no nominations in the last year of a Presidency.
The media's lousy addiction to both-sides-ism plays to the Democrats' strength for once here.
posted by Gelatin at 10:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
Well, of course Fox will, but any Democrat with even an ounce of messaging sense -- which, I admit, may be something of a long shot -- only has to say "uh, Garland?" when asked for comment. Better yet they could use the opportunity to question Trump's legitimacy and the increasing scandal trouble and quip about the McConnell standard of no nominations in the last year of a Presidency.
The media's lousy addiction to both-sides-ism plays to the Democrats' strength for once here.
posted by Gelatin at 10:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
Gelatin I also wonder if Spicer whining about obstructionism is a signal that McConnell may not be able to break the filibuster.
I'm a bit doubtful on that, simply because if the Trump administration has proven anything so far it's that they whine about everything as early and as often as possible. They are the complainiest bunch of losers I've seen in the White House in my 42 years of life.
I mean, it's possible McConnell won't be able to break the filibuster, but that has nothing to with Sphincter complaining. I think it's just reflexive Trump whining about people being mean to him.
drezdn Don't be shocked if the political press comes down with a case of IOKIYAR and does punish the dems for obstructionism.
Anyone who doesn't expect this to happen, complete with stories about how the Democratic filibuster is unprecedented and no mention at all of the non-filibuster freeze out of Garland, simply hasn't been paying attention to the way the media operates. IOKIYAR is their motto.
posted by sotonohito at 10:59 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm a bit doubtful on that, simply because if the Trump administration has proven anything so far it's that they whine about everything as early and as often as possible. They are the complainiest bunch of losers I've seen in the White House in my 42 years of life.
I mean, it's possible McConnell won't be able to break the filibuster, but that has nothing to with Sphincter complaining. I think it's just reflexive Trump whining about people being mean to him.
drezdn Don't be shocked if the political press comes down with a case of IOKIYAR and does punish the dems for obstructionism.
Anyone who doesn't expect this to happen, complete with stories about how the Democratic filibuster is unprecedented and no mention at all of the non-filibuster freeze out of Garland, simply hasn't been paying attention to the way the media operates. IOKIYAR is their motto.
posted by sotonohito at 10:59 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
AP just now: BREAKING: House Freedom Caucus chairman says "no deal" reached on health bill after meeting with Trump, putting vote in doubt.
THIS IS SUCH A GOOD BIRTHDAY.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:59 AM on March 23, 2017 [79 favorites]
THIS IS SUCH A GOOD BIRTHDAY.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:59 AM on March 23, 2017 [79 favorites]
THIS IS SUCH A GOOD BIRTHDAY.
Happy birthday! Mine's tomorrow. GIVE ME SOMETHING GOOD, WORLD.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:01 AM on March 23, 2017 [34 favorites]
Happy birthday! Mine's tomorrow. GIVE ME SOMETHING GOOD, WORLD.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:01 AM on March 23, 2017 [34 favorites]
THIS IS SUCH A GOOD BIRTHDAY.
You wished for the indictments to be handed down this evening, right?
Happy Birthday :)
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:01 AM on March 23, 2017 [26 favorites]
You wished for the indictments to be handed down this evening, right?
Happy Birthday :)
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:01 AM on March 23, 2017 [26 favorites]
AP just now: BREAKING: House Freedom Caucus chairman says "no deal" reached on health bill after meeting with Trump, putting vote in doubt.
Spicer just basically said that this wasn't going to happen, at the exact moment it happened.
posted by dis_integration at 11:02 AM on March 23, 2017 [35 favorites]
Spicer just basically said that this wasn't going to happen, at the exact moment it happened.
posted by dis_integration at 11:02 AM on March 23, 2017 [35 favorites]
There should be a word in German for how much I'm enjoying schadenfrau's birthday.
posted by kelborel at 11:03 AM on March 23, 2017 [143 favorites]
posted by kelborel at 11:03 AM on March 23, 2017 [143 favorites]
my birthday is next week and if that date goes down in history as Pee Tape Day I would be so okay with that, if you're listening, universe
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:03 AM on March 23, 2017 [50 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:03 AM on March 23, 2017 [50 favorites]
I more than half expect them to cancel the vote entirely at this point.
I wonder how they would spin their complete and total failure to pass the ACHA. Guess they're going to want a do-over.
posted by mikelieman at 11:05 AM on March 23, 2017
I wonder how they would spin their complete and total failure to pass the ACHA. Guess they're going to want a do-over.
posted by mikelieman at 11:05 AM on March 23, 2017
I feel like Spicer's daily sense of dignity, credibility, and self-worth are like the shoe that Judge Doom dips in the sludge. The sludge in this case is the daily press briefing.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:05 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 11:05 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
schadenfrau: Happy birthday! Do you know you share a birthday with Obamacare? You do!
May it also be last day anybody thinks Paul Ryan has the slightest clue what he's doing.
posted by zachlipton at 11:05 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
May it also be last day anybody thinks Paul Ryan has the slightest clue what he's doing.
posted by zachlipton at 11:05 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
When I inevitably run out of favorites, know that I am still favoriting in spirit
posted by schadenfrau at 11:05 AM on March 23, 2017 [40 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 11:05 AM on March 23, 2017 [40 favorites]
Spicer keeps talking about "young people" having to buy coverage for end of life care, as if young people never ever can die.
Yeah, they seem to reason and legislate based on really broad, obsolete stereotypes. That seems to be almost a pathological tendency among contemporary Republican pols.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:06 AM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yeah, they seem to reason and legislate based on really broad, obsolete stereotypes. That seems to be almost a pathological tendency among contemporary Republican pols.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:06 AM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
They are the complainiest bunch of losers I've seen in the White House in my 42 years of life.
Which is why I marvel at their popularity, because if there's a common thread to Republicans' appeal, it's being able to look like winners. Reagan was not that good of a president, but it's perceived -- wrongly -- that he stared down the Soviet Union and -- rightly -- that he cowed the Democrats to an extent that they still haven't entirely recovered from.
Conversely, it was only in his second term, when it was harder and harder to pretend that George W. Bush wasn't a miserable failure, that he started losing Republican support; indeed, the remainder had to re-brand itself as the s-called "tea party," because "we're the ones who still believe W did a good job" wouldn't attract media interest.
But this week's events are likely to make Trump look like a loser, and their reaction to it only seems to enhance that perception. It may not matter much to his base, but as we saw with W, the complacent media might get a scent of blood in the water at last.
posted by Gelatin at 11:08 AM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Which is why I marvel at their popularity, because if there's a common thread to Republicans' appeal, it's being able to look like winners. Reagan was not that good of a president, but it's perceived -- wrongly -- that he stared down the Soviet Union and -- rightly -- that he cowed the Democrats to an extent that they still haven't entirely recovered from.
Conversely, it was only in his second term, when it was harder and harder to pretend that George W. Bush wasn't a miserable failure, that he started losing Republican support; indeed, the remainder had to re-brand itself as the s-called "tea party," because "we're the ones who still believe W did a good job" wouldn't attract media interest.
But this week's events are likely to make Trump look like a loser, and their reaction to it only seems to enhance that perception. It may not matter much to his base, but as we saw with W, the complacent media might get a scent of blood in the water at last.
posted by Gelatin at 11:08 AM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
congress just voted to let isps share your browsing history without your permission, and strips the fcc from making a similar rule in the future.
hmm. Can browser histories be spoofed? Why yes, I did spend the last 3 weeks examining various wikipedia articles on complex oxides found in granite.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:09 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
hmm. Can browser histories be spoofed? Why yes, I did spend the last 3 weeks examining various wikipedia articles on complex oxides found in granite.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:09 AM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Spicer keeps talking about "young people" having to buy coverage for end of life care, as if young people never ever can die.
MOTHERFUCKER, some of us younger folks have parents who we'd like to be able to stay insured!!!! Some of us younger folks have parents who we don't want to bankrupt themselves, and us dutiful loving children, paying for their medical care! Some of us younger folks understand that shit happens and "end of life care" can suddenly become distressingly relevant for any of us or our family members!
posted by yasaman at 11:10 AM on March 23, 2017 [38 favorites]
MOTHERFUCKER, some of us younger folks have parents who we'd like to be able to stay insured!!!! Some of us younger folks have parents who we don't want to bankrupt themselves, and us dutiful loving children, paying for their medical care! Some of us younger folks understand that shit happens and "end of life care" can suddenly become distressingly relevant for any of us or our family members!
posted by yasaman at 11:10 AM on March 23, 2017 [38 favorites]
I’m also told (not by a Democrat!) that there’s a persuasive piece of intelligence on ties between Russia and a member of the Trump team that isn’t yet public.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:10 AM on March 23, 2017 [32 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 11:10 AM on March 23, 2017 [32 favorites]
Another one bites the dust: Former Russian Lawmaker and Putin Critic Gunned Down in Broad Daylight
posted by rabbitrabbit at 11:11 AM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by rabbitrabbit at 11:11 AM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
Given the revelations re: Russia in the past few days and the failure to negotiate/threaten an ACA repeal, do the Republicans pin it on Trump and begin to openly support his removal/impeachment or do they hang their support/indifference on the upcoming fight for tax breaks? I have to wonder if a deal may already be struck to move him out of the way before he erodes their political capital even more.
posted by extraheavymarcellus at 11:12 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by extraheavymarcellus at 11:12 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
anem0ne: congress just voted to let isps share your browsing history without your permission, and strips the fcc from making a similar rule in the future.
Time for all y'all to start using a VPN.
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:13 AM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
Time for all y'all to start using a VPN.
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:13 AM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
It should just be assumed that anything Spicer says is just sound devoid of meaning. It signals nothing, or means nothing, it is nothing.
GOP want America to be the best!
All evidence to the contrary.
Seriously, you actually still believe that?
This makes more sense if you recognize that even the sports teams that lose all the time for decades and decades still have die-hard fans that will chant about how their (losing) team is the best (presumably the best at losing). Substitute "Milwaukee Brewers" for "America" whenever a conservative brags about America being the best and it all makes sense.
Edit - my spell check changed "conservative" to "cinnabar," which was amusing to me but an insult to cinnabar.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:15 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
GOP want America to be the best!
All evidence to the contrary.
Seriously, you actually still believe that?
This makes more sense if you recognize that even the sports teams that lose all the time for decades and decades still have die-hard fans that will chant about how their (losing) team is the best (presumably the best at losing). Substitute "Milwaukee Brewers" for "America" whenever a conservative brags about America being the best and it all makes sense.
Edit - my spell check changed "conservative" to "cinnabar," which was amusing to me but an insult to cinnabar.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:15 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Given the revelations re: Russia in the past few days and the failure to negotiate/threaten an ACA repeal, do the Republicans pin it on Trump and begin to openly support his removal/impeachment or do they hang their support/indifference on the upcoming fight for tax breaks? I have to wonder if a deal may already be struck to move him out of the way before he erodes their political capital even more.
What possible good can Trump do you anymore, as a Republican? He can't use the weight of the office to push anything through, because he's torched its credibility. He has no negotiation skills; he can't accomplish ANYTHING. Even the thing that Republicans have been campaigning on for 7 freaking years.
At this point the only reason you don't publicly denounce him is the fear that he'll sic his Sturmabteilung on you.
...but after a while he's declared enough enemies that the denunciations lose their weight.
Undoubtedly he'll blame someone else for this failure. Paul Ryan, maybe? The Freedom Caucus? So what? Do you really think they'll take the heat when they can just point their fingers at the incompetent loser who's supposed to be running the country?
posted by leotrotsky at 11:18 AM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
What possible good can Trump do you anymore, as a Republican? He can't use the weight of the office to push anything through, because he's torched its credibility. He has no negotiation skills; he can't accomplish ANYTHING. Even the thing that Republicans have been campaigning on for 7 freaking years.
At this point the only reason you don't publicly denounce him is the fear that he'll sic his Sturmabteilung on you.
...but after a while he's declared enough enemies that the denunciations lose their weight.
Undoubtedly he'll blame someone else for this failure. Paul Ryan, maybe? The Freedom Caucus? So what? Do you really think they'll take the heat when they can just point their fingers at the incompetent loser who's supposed to be running the country?
posted by leotrotsky at 11:18 AM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
Can browser histories be spoofed? Why yes, I did spend the last 3 weeks examining various wikipedia articles on complex oxides found in granite.
Browser histories can be spoofed, cleared, whatever. ISP request logs, not so much.
The good news is, the increased usage of HTTPS on the internet will mitigate some of the damage that can be done by law enforcement grabbing up those logs, as there will be no (readable) copy of specific data that is being sent back and forth in form submissions, etc. However, they will be able to get all the hostnames and URLs your browser requests.
The traditional answer to this kind of snooping has been to use offshore VPN/proxy services or Tor. The VPNs are a crapshoot, as far as trustworthiness, and you might be handing your data over to malicious hackers or foreign governments anyway (at least for the free tier VPNs). Tor is also a bit of a crapshoot, since we know that some portion of exit nodes are definitely compromised.
The safest option would be to research your offshore VPNs very carefully and pay for a trusted service. Or host your own server offshore through a VPS or something that you can set up a secure tunnel to.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:19 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
Browser histories can be spoofed, cleared, whatever. ISP request logs, not so much.
The good news is, the increased usage of HTTPS on the internet will mitigate some of the damage that can be done by law enforcement grabbing up those logs, as there will be no (readable) copy of specific data that is being sent back and forth in form submissions, etc. However, they will be able to get all the hostnames and URLs your browser requests.
The traditional answer to this kind of snooping has been to use offshore VPN/proxy services or Tor. The VPNs are a crapshoot, as far as trustworthiness, and you might be handing your data over to malicious hackers or foreign governments anyway (at least for the free tier VPNs). Tor is also a bit of a crapshoot, since we know that some portion of exit nodes are definitely compromised.
The safest option would be to research your offshore VPNs very carefully and pay for a trusted service. Or host your own server offshore through a VPS or something that you can set up a secure tunnel to.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:19 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
What possible good can Trump do you anymore, as a Republican?
Trump is still their last best hope against the "jihad" -- Muslim refugees who have come here to conquer America and make us all submit to Sharia law. Seriously, this is what they believe. That is why they are so loyal to Trump. Even to the point of selling us out to Putin -- he's our ally in the coming war against the whole Muslim world, they believe.
I don't know how many Republican lawmakers (as opposed to voters) actually believe this stuff, but based on how many were more interested in the leaks than the possible treason at the intelligence committee hearing, it's a lot more than I would've thought a year ago...
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:22 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
Trump is still their last best hope against the "jihad" -- Muslim refugees who have come here to conquer America and make us all submit to Sharia law. Seriously, this is what they believe. That is why they are so loyal to Trump. Even to the point of selling us out to Putin -- he's our ally in the coming war against the whole Muslim world, they believe.
I don't know how many Republican lawmakers (as opposed to voters) actually believe this stuff, but based on how many were more interested in the leaks than the possible treason at the intelligence committee hearing, it's a lot more than I would've thought a year ago...
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:22 AM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
However, they will be able to get all the hostnames and URLs your browser requests.
Just the hostname. The URL is part of the encrypted HTTPS request. So don't go to www.alqaedatrainingandrecruitment.info.
posted by dis_integration at 11:22 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Just the hostname. The URL is part of the encrypted HTTPS request. So don't go to www.alqaedatrainingandrecruitment.info.
posted by dis_integration at 11:22 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
'No' is a complete sentence.
posted by witchen
Quine!
posted by spitbull at 11:23 AM on March 23, 2017
Existential Dread Not to your ISP, not really. Your ISP is the one person you can't lie to about your browsing.
The best you can do is stonewall your ISP by using a VPN, they wouldn't think you were looking up complex oxides found in granite, but all they'd see was that you connected to your VPN and transmitted X megabytes will downloading Y gigabytes.
Seriously, get a VPN now people. Private Internet Access is pretty good and fairly inexpensive. But there's plenty of others. Just google "vpn providers" and see for yourself.
If you'd like to know a bit more without a lot of tech details here's how it works and why you can't spoof your history to your ISP:
Your ISP is who you get your internet through, when you type "metafilter.com" into your browser your computer says to your ISP "please give me the page metafilter.com". Unless you have a VPN or something similar your ISP has to know what you're doing online because if they didn't they couldn't give you the data.
Unless you use a VPN.
A VPN is a middleman. Instead of telling your ISP you want to get metafilter.com, you tell your ISP you want to talk to your VPN. And after that everything you send or receive is massively encrypted and your ISP has no idea what's going on. Instead of saying "hey ISP get me metafilter.com" you say "hey ISP send this super duper encrypted message to my VPN". And that super duper encrypted message is a request for the VPN to fetch metafilter.com for you. They send it back super duper encrypted and your ISP says "here's this message I can't read from your VPN".
For you as a user its transparent, once you connect to your VPN you use the internet as normal. But your ISP knows nothing except that you are talking to your VPN.
Now you may have noticed there's a weak point here: the VPN. Will your VPN sell your history? They make promises that they won't. Will your VPN give your data to the government if they subpoena it? Well, your average VPN claims not to keep records. That way if the government demands your history they can truthfully say they don't have it because they never kept it.
How much do you trust your VPN? If you're doing something really illegal, I probably wouldn't trust them very much, especially if you're doing something like terrorism where the government is very interested in catching you. OTOH, for just a bit of privacy when browsing a VPN is a great thing.
Typically you'll pay somewhere between $3 and $15 a month for a VPN service.
posted by sotonohito at 11:23 AM on March 23, 2017 [67 favorites]
The best you can do is stonewall your ISP by using a VPN, they wouldn't think you were looking up complex oxides found in granite, but all they'd see was that you connected to your VPN and transmitted X megabytes will downloading Y gigabytes.
Seriously, get a VPN now people. Private Internet Access is pretty good and fairly inexpensive. But there's plenty of others. Just google "vpn providers" and see for yourself.
If you'd like to know a bit more without a lot of tech details here's how it works and why you can't spoof your history to your ISP:
Your ISP is who you get your internet through, when you type "metafilter.com" into your browser your computer says to your ISP "please give me the page metafilter.com". Unless you have a VPN or something similar your ISP has to know what you're doing online because if they didn't they couldn't give you the data.
Unless you use a VPN.
A VPN is a middleman. Instead of telling your ISP you want to get metafilter.com, you tell your ISP you want to talk to your VPN. And after that everything you send or receive is massively encrypted and your ISP has no idea what's going on. Instead of saying "hey ISP get me metafilter.com" you say "hey ISP send this super duper encrypted message to my VPN". And that super duper encrypted message is a request for the VPN to fetch metafilter.com for you. They send it back super duper encrypted and your ISP says "here's this message I can't read from your VPN".
For you as a user its transparent, once you connect to your VPN you use the internet as normal. But your ISP knows nothing except that you are talking to your VPN.
Now you may have noticed there's a weak point here: the VPN. Will your VPN sell your history? They make promises that they won't. Will your VPN give your data to the government if they subpoena it? Well, your average VPN claims not to keep records. That way if the government demands your history they can truthfully say they don't have it because they never kept it.
How much do you trust your VPN? If you're doing something really illegal, I probably wouldn't trust them very much, especially if you're doing something like terrorism where the government is very interested in catching you. OTOH, for just a bit of privacy when browsing a VPN is a great thing.
Typically you'll pay somewhere between $3 and $15 a month for a VPN service.
posted by sotonohito at 11:23 AM on March 23, 2017 [67 favorites]
So is there a vote on the AHCA tonight or not? I feel like I'm drowning in bullshit and trying to track down answers to simple scheduling questions is beyond my ability.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:26 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:26 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
National Organization for Women (twitter): The AHCA now has a clause that allows states to revoke Medicaid if a women hasn't gotten a job 8 weeks after giving birth.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:27 AM on March 23, 2017 [63 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:27 AM on March 23, 2017 [63 favorites]
Q: "Can you say unequivocally that Trump associates did not collude w/Russia?"
Spicer: "A term like 'associates' is a very vague term."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:27 AM on March 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
Spicer: "A term like 'associates' is a very vague term."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:27 AM on March 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
Spicey just ripped the press corps for going to the Nunes press conference?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:29 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:29 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Spicer: "A term like 'associates' is a very vague term."
For crying out loud, Spicer, you aren't supposed to admit it!
posted by Gelatin at 11:29 AM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
For crying out loud, Spicer, you aren't supposed to admit it!
posted by Gelatin at 11:29 AM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
So is there a vote on the AHCA tonight or not?
I don't think anyone knows for sure. I really wish I could flip to the end of the book to find out what happens because going through all of this in real time is making me insane.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 11:29 AM on March 23, 2017 [26 favorites]
I don't think anyone knows for sure. I really wish I could flip to the end of the book to find out what happens because going through all of this in real time is making me insane.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 11:29 AM on March 23, 2017 [26 favorites]
video (sorry for the multiple comments): "A gentleman who was employed by someone for five months," Spicer says of Paul Manafort
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:29 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:29 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Spicer going on about how the press is too interested in the process of Nunes' disclosures instead of what he refers to as "substance".
He of course neglects that the process is full of ratfucking and almost certainly illegal acts.
posted by zrail at 11:30 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
He of course neglects that the process is full of ratfucking and almost certainly illegal acts.
posted by zrail at 11:30 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
So is there a vote on the AHCA tonight or not? I feel like I'm drowning in bullshit and trying to track down answers to simple scheduling questions is beyond my ability.
This one isn't on you. Absolutely nobody knows at this point. That said, the whip count seems to keep getting worse for the bill.
This Twitter list is a good place for moment-to-moment AHCA news from healthcare reporters in Congress.
posted by zachlipton at 11:31 AM on March 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
This one isn't on you. Absolutely nobody knows at this point. That said, the whip count seems to keep getting worse for the bill.
This Twitter list is a good place for moment-to-moment AHCA news from healthcare reporters in Congress.
posted by zachlipton at 11:31 AM on March 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
Spicer: "In any case, what is 'Russia,' really?"
Reporter: "It's a country."
Spicer: "But is it really?"
Reporter: "Yes."
Spicer: "Next question."
/s barely
posted by leotrotsky at 11:31 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Reporter: "It's a country."
Spicer: "But is it really?"
Reporter: "Yes."
Spicer: "Next question."
/s barely
posted by leotrotsky at 11:31 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
"A gentleman who was employed by someone for five months," Spicer says of Paul Manafort
Even that's moving the goalposts from earlier references to Manafort as nothing but a campaign volunteer.
posted by Gelatin at 11:32 AM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
Even that's moving the goalposts from earlier references to Manafort as nothing but a campaign volunteer.
posted by Gelatin at 11:32 AM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
This makes more sense if you recognize that even the sports teams that lose all the time for decades and decades still have die-hard fans that will chant about how their (losing) team is the best (presumably the best at losing). Substitute "Milwaukee Brewers" for "America" whenever a conservative brags about America being the best and it all makes sense.
The Brewers were 2 games from the World Series in 2011. I believe you meant the Cleveland Browns.
posted by drezdn at 11:34 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Brewers were 2 games from the World Series in 2011. I believe you meant the Cleveland Browns.
posted by drezdn at 11:34 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Incredibly, Kansas advanced the Medicaid expansion out of committee just today. Kansas. It's almost like there's already a Republican health care reform plan in place on a national level that states would be foolish to refuse to join to benefit their citizens.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:35 AM on March 23, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:35 AM on March 23, 2017 [45 favorites]
This Twitter list is a good place for moment-to-moment AHCA news from healthcare reporters in Congress.
Oh, this is good. Thank you zachlipton.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh, this is good. Thank you zachlipton.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
So can I take this as confirmation that Manafort is going to be indicted?
The bad news is that he'll have some sort of suspicious heart attack before he's able to turn state's evidence. Plus, anyone who would prosecute him is probably going to get fired.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
The bad news is that he'll have some sort of suspicious heart attack before he's able to turn state's evidence. Plus, anyone who would prosecute him is probably going to get fired.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Spicer going on about how the press is too interested in the process of Nunes' disclosures instead of what he refers to as "substance".
He of course neglects that the process is full of ratfucking and almost certainly illegal acts.
And the substance is that a "legal" (so not ordered by Obama) and "incidental" (so not targeting Trump) surveillance record of foreign individuals unrelated to the Russia investigation picked up talk with or about members of Trump's team. So what is there to talk about? It would seem to have nothing to do with anything, including Trump's discredited tweets? Makes me so mad that they successfully turned it into a story at all, and that millions of people (including Trump) are out there now saying Trump is vindicated. The the extent that there was any substance at all to Nunes' statements, the "substance" was pure deception.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
He of course neglects that the process is full of ratfucking and almost certainly illegal acts.
And the substance is that a "legal" (so not ordered by Obama) and "incidental" (so not targeting Trump) surveillance record of foreign individuals unrelated to the Russia investigation picked up talk with or about members of Trump's team. So what is there to talk about? It would seem to have nothing to do with anything, including Trump's discredited tweets? Makes me so mad that they successfully turned it into a story at all, and that millions of people (including Trump) are out there now saying Trump is vindicated. The the extent that there was any substance at all to Nunes' statements, the "substance" was pure deception.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:36 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
“U.S. Treasury Department agents have recently obtained information about offshore financial transactions involving President Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, as part of a federal anti-corruption probe into his work in Eastern Europe,” the AP reports.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:37 AM on March 23, 2017 [33 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 11:37 AM on March 23, 2017 [33 favorites]
I can't believe that Ryan and other members of the GOP keep referring to Trump as the "closer" on this bill.
posted by maudlin at 11:38 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by maudlin at 11:38 AM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
The bad news is that he'll have some sort of suspicious heart attack
Gravity poisoning.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:39 AM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
Gravity poisoning.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:39 AM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
cjelli: Nunes: It Was 'Judgment Call’ To Brief Press, Trump First About Surveillance
posted by filthy light thief at 11:39 AM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
“I called down there and invited myself because I thought he needed to understand what I saw and that he needed to try to get that information because he has every right to see it,” he continued.But does he? And what right does he have to hear this before any other members of the House Intelligence Committee? You're the shit-bag who whined about the problem with leaks about Trump's possible ties to Russia being an issue of who's leaking, not what is in the leaks, which has this gem:
“I would never talk about classified information with any of you, because that would be a crime,” Nunes responded.Yeah, you're a political hack, trying to crawl in Trump's pocket.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:39 AM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
I really wish I could flip to the end of the book to find out what happens because going through all of this in real time is making me insane.
THERE'S A MONSTER AT THE END OF THIS BOOK!
posted by C'est la D.C. at 11:40 AM on March 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
THERE'S A MONSTER AT THE END OF THIS BOOK!
posted by C'est la D.C. at 11:40 AM on March 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
I can't believe that Ryan and other members of the GOP keep referring to Trump as the "closer " on this bill.
posted by maudlin at 13:38 on March 23 [+] [!]
Who else is having a feeling about 10:30pm CST Saturday night?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:40 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by maudlin at 13:38 on March 23 [+] [!]
Who else is having a feeling about 10:30pm CST Saturday night?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:40 AM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think it's more of this type of "Closer" [may require login]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 11:40 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 11:40 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
More on Mr Voronenkov who has been assassinated in Kiev which fits into the coincidence department.
If Ukraine decides to separately try ever so dodgy Manafort, Denis Voronenkov would have been a key witness.
posted by adamvasco at 11:41 AM on March 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
If Ukraine decides to separately try ever so dodgy Manafort, Denis Voronenkov would have been a key witness.
posted by adamvasco at 11:41 AM on March 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
Gravity poisoning.
High velocity lead poisoning
posted by PenDevil at 11:41 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
High velocity lead poisoning
posted by PenDevil at 11:41 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
I can't believe that Ryan and other members of the GOP keep referring to Trump as the "closer" on this bill.
Maybe they meant the play? Like, "Lying is the most fun a Trump can have without getting a golden shower?"
posted by Freon at 11:41 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Maybe they meant the play? Like, "Lying is the most fun a Trump can have without getting a golden shower?"
posted by Freon at 11:41 AM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
kirkaracha: Of the 44 policy pledges laid out in the Contract, we’ve documented that eighteen promises (~40%) have either been 'completed' or are 'in progress.'" (Most are "in progress.")
AP's Tracking Trump’s first 100 days rates 8 complete promises and 11 in progress out of 38.
And this is what Trump supporters see and say: "he's doing what he said he would," overlooking what those things mean in the short- or long-term.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:41 AM on March 23, 2017
AP's Tracking Trump’s first 100 days rates 8 complete promises and 11 in progress out of 38.
And this is what Trump supporters see and say: "he's doing what he said he would," overlooking what those things mean in the short- or long-term.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:41 AM on March 23, 2017
Gravity poisoning
High velocity lead poisoning
Acute Trotskyitis
posted by Behemoth at 11:44 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
High velocity lead poisoning
Acute Trotskyitis
posted by Behemoth at 11:44 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
U.S. Treasury Department agents have recently obtained information about offshore financial transactions involving President Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort
Why does the news keep referring to Paul Manafort (who simply wandered into Trump Tower to escape from a passing shower) as President Trump's former campaign chairman? It's very confusing.
posted by diogenes at 11:45 AM on March 23, 2017 [49 favorites]
Why does the news keep referring to Paul Manafort (who simply wandered into Trump Tower to escape from a passing shower) as President Trump's former campaign chairman? It's very confusing.
posted by diogenes at 11:45 AM on March 23, 2017 [49 favorites]
Yeah, if this current reality were a movie I was watching on my couch this would be about the time I'd pull out my phone and check wikipedia to spoil myself the ending before I gave myself an anxiety ulcer. DOES HE GET IMPEACHED JESUS FUCK JUST TELL ME.
posted by lydhre at 11:49 AM on March 23, 2017 [48 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 11:49 AM on March 23, 2017 [48 favorites]
This makes more sense if you recognize that even the sports teams that lose all the time for decades and decades still have die-hard fans that will chant about how their (losing) team is the best (presumably the best at losing). Substitute "Milwaukee Brewers" for "America" whenever a conservative brags about America being the best and it all makes sense.
I live in a world of Toronto Maple Leafs fans. What you say makes perfect sense.
posted by rocket88 at 11:50 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
I live in a world of Toronto Maple Leafs fans. What you say makes perfect sense.
posted by rocket88 at 11:50 AM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Just saying, I have this tab open at all hours.
posted by mumimor at 11:51 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 11:51 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm basically that MST3K clip somebody linked oh so long ago where, upon viewing The Wild World of Batwoman, one of the robots is reduced to screaming at the movie END END END END.
It's like the BP oil spill but Trump is the oil well and nobody can put a lid on this shit so it goes on and on.
posted by angrycat at 11:52 AM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
It's like the BP oil spill but Trump is the oil well and nobody can put a lid on this shit so it goes on and on.
posted by angrycat at 11:52 AM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
lol, irony and paranoia alert: I can't access any info about VPN services through my work VPN (which I'm connected to now), because the work firewall blocks those websites. So I guess I'll have to do that work through my personal laptop, which means my ISP will know what I'm doing, which now makes me nervous, yay wheeeee
posted by palomar at 11:52 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by palomar at 11:52 AM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
National Organization for Women (twitter): The AHCA now has a clause that allows states to revoke Medicaid if a women hasn't gotten a job 8 weeks after giving birth.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:27 PM
WHAT. THE FUCK.
“[Eliminating] essential health benefits means Republicans are making being a woman a preexisting condition,” House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) told reporters Thursday. “Again, stripping guaranteed maternity care is a pregnancy tax, pure and simple.” - Nancy Pelosi. She's right.
posted by yoga at 11:53 AM on March 23, 2017 [91 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:27 PM
WHAT. THE FUCK.
“[Eliminating] essential health benefits means Republicans are making being a woman a preexisting condition,” House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) told reporters Thursday. “Again, stripping guaranteed maternity care is a pregnancy tax, pure and simple.” - Nancy Pelosi. She's right.
posted by yoga at 11:53 AM on March 23, 2017 [91 favorites]
I can't believe that Ryan and other members of the GOP keep referring to Trump as the "closer " on this bill.
posted by maudlin at 13:38 on March 23 [+] [!]
Really? They're doing that so that when it all goes down in flames they can point the finger at him for failing to close. Poisoned Chalice.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:55 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by maudlin at 13:38 on March 23 [+] [!]
Really? They're doing that so that when it all goes down in flames they can point the finger at him for failing to close. Poisoned Chalice.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:55 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
"A gentleman who was employed by someone for five months," Spicer says of Paul Manafort
This is like listening to the Wamapoke NPR guy from Parks and Recreation describe Batman as "a strong gentleman who fights crime nocturnally". Just... yeah. I'm not high enough for reality.
posted by palomar at 11:55 AM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
This is like listening to the Wamapoke NPR guy from Parks and Recreation describe Batman as "a strong gentleman who fights crime nocturnally". Just... yeah. I'm not high enough for reality.
posted by palomar at 11:55 AM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
I can't believe that Ryan and other members of the GOP keep referring to Trump as the "closer " on this bill.
I wasn't sure it was possible to unintentionally set up a tee-ball stand in front of Alec Baldwin but here we are.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 11:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [36 favorites]
I wasn't sure it was possible to unintentionally set up a tee-ball stand in front of Alec Baldwin but here we are.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 11:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [36 favorites]
National Organization for Women (twitter): The AHCA now has a clause that allows states to revoke Medicaid if a women hasn't gotten a job 8 weeks after giving birth.
This was the very first thing I saw this morning, and it ruined my entire day. Not only does Congress not want American women to have real maternity leave, they are going to actively punish women for not working soon enough after their child is born.
Pro life my ass.
posted by anastasiav at 11:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [61 favorites]
This was the very first thing I saw this morning, and it ruined my entire day. Not only does Congress not want American women to have real maternity leave, they are going to actively punish women for not working soon enough after their child is born.
Pro life my ass.
posted by anastasiav at 11:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [61 favorites]
Jezebel has edited Trump's Time interview, redacting everything that isn't verifiable true. There's not a lot left.
The White House is now saying the vote would be after midnight, if there is a vote.
posted by zachlipton at 11:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [27 favorites]
The White House is now saying the vote would be after midnight, if there is a vote.
posted by zachlipton at 11:58 AM on March 23, 2017 [27 favorites]
Incredibly, Kansas advanced the Medicaid expansion out of committee just today. Kansas. It's almost like there's already a Republican health care reform plan in place on a national level that states would be foolish to refuse to join to benefit their citizens.
Well yeah, they've seen the alternative. Gov. Brownback has demonstrably proved he's a complete fuckstick with no connection to reality who destroyed the state he was supposed to be governing (and approval ratings in the mid 20s.)
posted by leotrotsky at 11:59 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well yeah, they've seen the alternative. Gov. Brownback has demonstrably proved he's a complete fuckstick with no connection to reality who destroyed the state he was supposed to be governing (and approval ratings in the mid 20s.)
posted by leotrotsky at 11:59 AM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
"A gentleman who was employed by someone for five months,"
... sounds like something Jaqen H'ghar would say. Kindly. Just before ...
posted by Dashy at 12:00 PM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
... sounds like something Jaqen H'ghar would say. Kindly. Just before ...
posted by Dashy at 12:00 PM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
Remember that Republicans are the party of working families. Families who have to work, constantly, even if they'd like to stay home with their 9 week-old baby.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:00 PM on March 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:00 PM on March 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
Remember that Republicans are the party of working families. Families who have to work, constantly, even if they'd like to stay home with their 9 week-old baby.
Well, why is the baby at home anyway? Shouldn't it have a job?
posted by melissasaurus at 12:02 PM on March 23, 2017 [87 favorites]
Well, why is the baby at home anyway? Shouldn't it have a job?
posted by melissasaurus at 12:02 PM on March 23, 2017 [87 favorites]
Stupid babies always be mooching.
posted by diogenes at 12:03 PM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 12:03 PM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
Well, why is the baby at home anyway? Shouldn't it have a job?
Alec Baldwin does it all!
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:03 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Alec Baldwin does it all!
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:03 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, why is the baby at home anyway? Shouldn't it have a job?
"Strap that baby to the minecart. If you're old enough to crawl, you're old enough to haul!"
posted by Etrigan at 12:05 PM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
"Strap that baby to the minecart. If you're old enough to crawl, you're old enough to haul!"
posted by Etrigan at 12:05 PM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
Jezebel has edited Trump's Time interview, redacting everything that isn't verifiable true. There's not a lot left.
Even so they let him get away with one of his most frequent and blatant lies, that he got 306 electoral votes, which he repeated twice in that interview. The final, official tally was 304 electoral votes for Trump because of two unfaithful Republican electors in Texas. This is reflected in the Certificate of Vote [pdf] from the Texas electoral college vote.
Donald Trump received 304 electoral votes, not 306. It made no difference to the outcome, it's a small difference, and yet he cannot stop lying about it. I wish reporters would call him on it.
posted by jedicus at 12:08 PM on March 23, 2017 [36 favorites]
Even so they let him get away with one of his most frequent and blatant lies, that he got 306 electoral votes, which he repeated twice in that interview. The final, official tally was 304 electoral votes for Trump because of two unfaithful Republican electors in Texas. This is reflected in the Certificate of Vote [pdf] from the Texas electoral college vote.
Donald Trump received 304 electoral votes, not 306. It made no difference to the outcome, it's a small difference, and yet he cannot stop lying about it. I wish reporters would call him on it.
posted by jedicus at 12:08 PM on March 23, 2017 [36 favorites]
Stupid babies always be mooching.
posted by diogenes at 12:03 PM on March 23 [2 favorites +] [!]
Sucking at the teat of...
I can't. They've ruined jokes.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:12 PM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 12:03 PM on March 23 [2 favorites +] [!]
Sucking at the teat of...
I can't. They've ruined jokes.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:12 PM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
Republicans: So-called "child labor laws" actually prohibit or severely restrict child labor, we need to get rid of those. [fake, so far]
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 12:12 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 12:12 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
@aaronwiener: This is the group deciding whether insurance plans should cover mammograms. Anyone missing?
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
Another one bites the dust: Former Russian Lawmaker and Putin Critic Gunned Down in Broad Daylight
Time to cue up "Layla"?
posted by kirkaracha at 12:15 PM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
Also, like all members of Congress, including the member of the so-called "Freedom Caucus" smirking smugly to NPR about not believing in government funded health care, he already gets gold-plated health insurance courtesy the US taxpayer.
MCs have to buy plans from the Obamacare markets (or use a spouse's plan, etc). This has been true since the ACA went into effect. Before that they had the same health insurance as any other federal employee, plus a couple of additional options for outpatient care.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:23 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
MCs have to buy plans from the Obamacare markets (or use a spouse's plan, etc). This has been true since the ACA went into effect. Before that they had the same health insurance as any other federal employee, plus a couple of additional options for outpatient care.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:23 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
jedicus: Even so they let him get away with one of his most popular and most blatant lies, that he got 306 electoral votes, which he repeated twice in that interview.
And a half-truth: that he used quote signs around 'wiretap', which he did two out of four times.
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:24 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
And a half-truth: that he used quote signs around 'wiretap', which he did two out of four times.
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:24 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Politico says no AHCA vote today, per GOP source. Still possible tomorrow.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:28 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:28 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
MCs have to buy plans from the Obamacare markets (or use a spouse's plan, etc). This has been true since the ACA went into effect. Before that they had the same health insurance as any other federal employee, plus a couple of additional options for outpatient care.
I stand corrected about the "gold-plated" assertion, since one presumes they could buy one of the bronze plans, but they'd still be using taxpayer dollars.
posted by Gelatin at 12:28 PM on March 23, 2017
I stand corrected about the "gold-plated" assertion, since one presumes they could buy one of the bronze plans, but they'd still be using taxpayer dollars.
posted by Gelatin at 12:28 PM on March 23, 2017
USAT: California Rep. Duncan Hunter under DOJ investigation
posted by Chrysostom at 12:30 PM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 12:30 PM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
The AHCA now has a clause that allows states to revoke Medicaid if a women hasn't gotten a job 8 weeks after giving birth.
Republicans are not just repealing Obamacare, they are repealing Medicaid going back to the 1960s. Even before Obamacare, the one category that every state covered was low income single parents with children. In fact that was about the only category that was universally covered, along with the disabled. Republicans are now repealing even that.
Next up, repealing the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Back to the future.
posted by JackFlash at 12:31 PM on March 23, 2017 [30 favorites]
Republicans are not just repealing Obamacare, they are repealing Medicaid going back to the 1960s. Even before Obamacare, the one category that every state covered was low income single parents with children. In fact that was about the only category that was universally covered, along with the disabled. Republicans are now repealing even that.
Next up, repealing the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Back to the future.
posted by JackFlash at 12:31 PM on March 23, 2017 [30 favorites]
Politico says no AHCA vote today, per GOP source. Still possible tomorrow.
And what of that? If Ryan serves up a dog's breakfast straight out of the ALEC wish list, and the Senate kills it, how is that any different from the multiple "repeal" votes the Republicans entertained themselves with during the Obama administration?
posted by Gelatin at 12:32 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
And what of that? If Ryan serves up a dog's breakfast straight out of the ALEC wish list, and the Senate kills it, how is that any different from the multiple "repeal" votes the Republicans entertained themselves with during the Obama administration?
posted by Gelatin at 12:32 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
As the bill falls apart and Spicer looks like an idiot for insisting there would be a vote tonight just like, what, 90 minutes ago, the President, the guy who's supposed to be "the closer," the guy who's the expert on the art of the deal––what's he doing to fix this? He is playing with a big truck.
posted by zachlipton at 12:34 PM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 12:34 PM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
Maybe it's just my pessimism, but I think they're pushing Trump as the closer because like with Medicare D it's going to pass no matter what.
I'll rejoice if it fails, but I'm still expecting the R's to get their act together and pass something. Maybe something so muddled and confusing that they can all explain they didn't know what was in it, but I can't see them stumbling on something as basic and essential to their Party identity as repealing ObamaCare.
Maybe not tonight, but like with MedicareD I think they'll pull a vote at 1am on Saturday or whatever it takes to twist arms and get it passed by a single vote.
posted by sotonohito at 12:36 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'll rejoice if it fails, but I'm still expecting the R's to get their act together and pass something. Maybe something so muddled and confusing that they can all explain they didn't know what was in it, but I can't see them stumbling on something as basic and essential to their Party identity as repealing ObamaCare.
Maybe not tonight, but like with MedicareD I think they'll pull a vote at 1am on Saturday or whatever it takes to twist arms and get it passed by a single vote.
posted by sotonohito at 12:36 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
California Rep. Duncan Hunter under DOJ investigation
For misusing campaign funds for personal use, and I will point out that Major Hunter has been under similar rules regarding "your money" and "not your money" during his service with the Marine Corps (and he is still in the Reserves), and was briefed on them at least annually (and likely briefed other people in his capacity as an officer). So he's got plenty of training in how not to fuck this up, and he either is an idiot or actively chose to ignore that and just buy shit illegally. Or, hell, maybe both. I won't misunderestimate him; he's a Marine.
posted by Etrigan at 12:37 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
For misusing campaign funds for personal use, and I will point out that Major Hunter has been under similar rules regarding "your money" and "not your money" during his service with the Marine Corps (and he is still in the Reserves), and was briefed on them at least annually (and likely briefed other people in his capacity as an officer). So he's got plenty of training in how not to fuck this up, and he either is an idiot or actively chose to ignore that and just buy shit illegally. Or, hell, maybe both. I won't misunderestimate him; he's a Marine.
posted by Etrigan at 12:37 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
MCs have to buy plans from the Obamacare markets (or use a spouse's plan, etc). This has been true since the ACA went into effect.
I know this sounds crazy, but has any Dem offered to just repeal that portion? I wonder how much that's driving this.
posted by corb at 12:37 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
I know this sounds crazy, but has any Dem offered to just repeal that portion? I wonder how much that's driving this.
posted by corb at 12:37 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
As the bill falls apart and Spicer looks like an idiot for insisting there would be a vote tonight just like, what, 90 minutes ago, the President, the guy who's supposed to be "the closer," the guy who's the expert on the art of the deal––what's he doing to fix this? He is playing with a big truck.
His tiny hands just make it look big.
posted by Gelatin at 12:38 PM on March 23, 2017
His tiny hands just make it look big.
posted by Gelatin at 12:38 PM on March 23, 2017
Acute Trotskyitis
leotrotsky: Hey now.
Who's a cute Trotsky? You are! You're a cute little Trotsky!
posted by filthy light thief at 12:40 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
leotrotsky: Hey now.
Who's a cute Trotsky? You are! You're a cute little Trotsky!
posted by filthy light thief at 12:40 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
I know this sounds crazy, but has any Dem offered to just repeal that portion? I wonder how much that's driving this.
If I recall correctly, the republicans put that forward in an attempt to sink the bill and democrats went "lol no" and passed it anyway. If I'm correct, I see no reason why they'd want to do the Republicans a favor by giving them back the nose they cut off.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 12:42 PM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
If I recall correctly, the republicans put that forward in an attempt to sink the bill and democrats went "lol no" and passed it anyway. If I'm correct, I see no reason why they'd want to do the Republicans a favor by giving them back the nose they cut off.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 12:42 PM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
zachlipton: Jezebel has edited Trump's Time interview, redacting everything that isn't verifiable true. There's not a lot left.
████████████████████████████████████████ Sweden. I make statements, everyone goes crazy.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:42 PM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
████████████████████████████████████████ Sweden. I make statements, everyone goes crazy.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:42 PM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
Trump has said he won't benefit
Why would the GSA believe that? He's said he'd do lots of things (particularly having to do with donating money) that never actually come to pass. His credibility is zero. Is there some weird Stockholm Syndrome in government where departments have to pretend to believe a lie if it comes from the White House?
posted by downtohisturtles at 12:44 PM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
Why would the GSA believe that? He's said he'd do lots of things (particularly having to do with donating money) that never actually come to pass. His credibility is zero. Is there some weird Stockholm Syndrome in government where departments have to pretend to believe a lie if it comes from the White House?
posted by downtohisturtles at 12:44 PM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
03/23/17 02:32 PM EDT:
White House: No reason to believe health bill vote will be delayed
03/23/17 03:38 PM EDT:
Thursday vote on health care bill canceled
Do the ACA'S essential benefits include acute schadenfreude exposure?
posted by Rhaomi at 12:44 PM on March 23, 2017 [60 favorites]
White House: No reason to believe health bill vote will be delayed
03/23/17 03:38 PM EDT:
Thursday vote on health care bill canceled
Do the ACA'S essential benefits include acute schadenfreude exposure?
posted by Rhaomi at 12:44 PM on March 23, 2017 [60 favorites]
The difference between now and 2003 when the Republicans twisted arms to pass Medicare is that W was insanely popular at the time, Medicare was (and is) a popular program, and they had skilled people doing the twisting.
Today? It's like they decide to do the opposite just for kicks and giggles.
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:45 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Today? It's like they decide to do the opposite just for kicks and giggles.
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:45 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
USAT: California Rep. Duncan Hunter under DOJ investigation
posted by filthy light thief at 12:46 PM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
The California Republican may have used tens of thousands of dollars from his congressional campaign committee for his personal use, according to an August 2016 report from the Office of Congressional Ethics. The expenses may have included paying for family travel, flights, utilities, health care, school uniforms and tuition, jewelry and groceries.Huh, wonder what his thoughts are on the cost of health care?
posted by filthy light thief at 12:46 PM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
I can't stop watching the stupid truck video. What the hell is he doing? Shouldn't he be working?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:46 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:46 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
House Obamacare repeal vote will not take place Thursday
and the failure katamari rolls onward that much larger
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:47 PM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
and the failure katamari rolls onward that much larger
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:47 PM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
Politico says no AHCA vote today, per GOP source.
#TrumpcareFail #DidntEvenGetAVote
posted by mikelieman at 12:48 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
#TrumpcareFail #DidntEvenGetAVote
posted by mikelieman at 12:48 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Shouldn't he be working?
Christ, no. Let him play on heavy machinery all he wants.
posted by Etrigan at 12:48 PM on March 23, 2017 [43 favorites]
Christ, no. Let him play on heavy machinery all he wants.
posted by Etrigan at 12:48 PM on March 23, 2017 [43 favorites]
It's like they decide to do the opposite just for kicks and giggles.
If ever there was an appropriate slogan for the GOP...
posted by Mayor West at 12:48 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
If ever there was an appropriate slogan for the GOP...
posted by Mayor West at 12:48 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Do the ACA'S essential benefits include acute schadenfreude exposure?
It does NOT. I am having a lie down.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
It does NOT. I am having a lie down.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
In fairness, only mammals need mammograms.
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:36 PM on March 23 [21 favorites +] [!]
Wait, are these mole people, or lizard people?
posted by notsnot at 12:50 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:36 PM on March 23 [21 favorites +] [!]
Wait, are these mole people, or lizard people?
posted by notsnot at 12:50 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
"If I ever fell, they'd be happy," says Pres Trump of the media watching him step out of the truck cab.
Tough job there, getting in and out of large vehicles as part of a publicity stunt to pretend he cares about health care for truckers.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:51 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Tough job there, getting in and out of large vehicles as part of a publicity stunt to pretend he cares about health care for truckers.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:51 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Maybe Trump's trying to get a taste of what was probably GWB's most funnest day on the job.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:52 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:52 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
“[Eliminating] essential health benefits means Republicans are making being a woman a preexisting condition,” House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) told reporters Thursday. “Again, stripping guaranteed maternity care is a pregnancy tax, pure and simple.” - Nancy Pelosi. She's right.
Or maybe we shouldn't be denying people healthcare (or raising their costs) on the basis of pre-existing conditions, period.
posted by spaceman_spiff at 12:52 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Or maybe we shouldn't be denying people healthcare (or raising their costs) on the basis of pre-existing conditions, period.
posted by spaceman_spiff at 12:52 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Honestly, him pulling that friggin' truck horn is the most human thing I've ever seen him do!
posted by OHenryPacey at 12:52 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by OHenryPacey at 12:52 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
>USAT: California Rep. Duncan Hunter under DOJ investigation
He is listed as "Supporting or Leaning Yes" on the AHCA according to the NYT. Does he still get to vote?
posted by TWinbrook8 at 12:53 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
He is listed as "Supporting or Leaning Yes" on the AHCA according to the NYT. Does he still get to vote?
posted by TWinbrook8 at 12:53 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
It does NOT. I am having a lie down.
Nooooo! Not on your birthday!
posted by yoga at 12:53 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Nooooo! Not on your birthday!
posted by yoga at 12:53 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
> I am having a lie down.
Although mammograms won't be covered by the GOP plan, thankfully fainting couches are covered. As are leeches.
posted by mosk at 12:53 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Although mammograms won't be covered by the GOP plan, thankfully fainting couches are covered. As are leeches.
posted by mosk at 12:53 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I can't stop watching the stupid truck video. What the hell is he doing? Shouldn't he be working?
"Did Russia make Trumpy cranky? Can't do another rally right now, let's find a toy truck for him to play with."
posted by dis_integration at 12:53 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
"Did Russia make Trumpy cranky? Can't do another rally right now, let's find a toy truck for him to play with."
posted by dis_integration at 12:53 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
"If I ever fell, they'd be happy," says Pres Trump of the media watching him step out of the truck cab.
Every now and then, in spite of it all, I have a moment of simple clarity and I am just left breathless by how simply ... petty this sad sack of shit we have as a president is.
I mean, it's small, even minuscule, on the scale of everything else to do with him, but every now and then it manages to drain my evens-buffer. Y'know?
posted by jammer at 12:54 PM on March 23, 2017 [29 favorites]
He's got a real thing about falling hasn't he? See also stairs.
posted by Artw at 12:57 PM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Artw at 12:57 PM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
If we can just get Spicy to answer a question, telling us "No, Donald Trump will not resign today"; this could all be over in about an hour.... apparently.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 12:58 PM on March 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 12:58 PM on March 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
Seconding sotonohito's recommendation of Private Internet Access. They're offshore and they don't keep logs.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:02 PM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:02 PM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
There's basically no incentive for someone to become a nursing educator right now, because nursing educators need a lot more education than specialist nurses do and make less money. We could pay nursing educators more, but we don't.
My mom was a professor of nursing. She got paid a comparable salary to professors in other fields. The difference is that nurses can make a lot more money without grad school than people in other fields. And if you get a master's degree you can make a TON working in the private sector in administration.
My mom really loved teaching and that's why she was there, but like most of academia the focus from the University was on publication and bringing in grant money and she just wanted to teach undergrads to be nurses.
posted by threeturtles at 1:03 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
My mom was a professor of nursing. She got paid a comparable salary to professors in other fields. The difference is that nurses can make a lot more money without grad school than people in other fields. And if you get a master's degree you can make a TON working in the private sector in administration.
My mom really loved teaching and that's why she was there, but like most of academia the focus from the University was on publication and bringing in grant money and she just wanted to teach undergrads to be nurses.
posted by threeturtles at 1:03 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
Not a whole lot of incentive for people to become nurses either. The schooling is hard and expensive, the hours are long and weird, the work is hard both emotionally and physically, hospital administrators mostly suck and are evil, and the pay isn't really all that great.
Source: my sister is a nurse working to pay off her nursing school loans.
posted by sotonohito at 1:11 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Source: my sister is a nurse working to pay off her nursing school loans.
posted by sotonohito at 1:11 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Paul Manafort and Sergey Kislyak walk into a bar. Nobody has any recollection of this. Why are they even in this joke? They have nothing to do with anything. What, two guys can't walk into a bar? People walk into bars all the time! (The subject of the Ukraine somehow came up.)
posted by diogenes at 1:11 PM on March 23, 2017 [68 favorites]
posted by diogenes at 1:11 PM on March 23, 2017 [68 favorites]
Hahahaha keg stand this, Paul Ryan you fucking ghoul.
Thursday vote on health care bill canceled
posted by supercrayon at 1:13 PM on March 23, 2017 [33 favorites]
Thursday vote on health care bill canceled
posted by supercrayon at 1:13 PM on March 23, 2017 [33 favorites]
"If I ever fell, they'd be happy," says Pres Trump of the media watching him step out of the truck cab.
That he did not immediately fall out of the damned truck should be considered conclusive proof that a loving, interventionist deity does not exist.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
That he did not immediately fall out of the damned truck should be considered conclusive proof that a loving, interventionist deity does not exist.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
Glibpaxman: "The difference between now and 2003 when the Republicans twisted arms to pass Medicare is that W was insanely popular at the time, Medicare was (and is) a popular program, and they had skilled people doing the twisting."
Yeah, agreed. Harry Enten of 538 earlier:
I may well be whistling past the graveyard here, but I don't see how any serious revision of the ACA gets passed. The GOP really is the dog who caught the car here.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Yeah, agreed. Harry Enten of 538 earlier:
AHCA polls 10-15% worse than Clinton's health care bill or ACA did @ this pt. Both those ended in electoral disasterTrump is unpopular, isn't interested in actually learning the nuances so that he can dangle specific tweaks in front of people, and isn't interested in the subject in general. Ryan...well, I've never been clear on how he's gotten the rep as a strategic genius, and he's basically trying to satisfy two irreconcilable groups.
I may well be whistling past the graveyard here, but I don't see how any serious revision of the ACA gets passed. The GOP really is the dog who caught the car here.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
There's basically no incentive for someone to become a nursing an educator right now
Not so much a "FTFY" as a broadening of the statement.
Not a whole lot of incentive for people to becomenurses teachers either. The schooling is hard and expensive, the hours are long and weird, the work is hard both emotionally and physically, hospital administrators mostly suck and are evil, and the pay isn't really all that great.
Oh man I could do this all day.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:16 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Not so much a "FTFY" as a broadening of the statement.
Not a whole lot of incentive for people to become
Oh man I could do this all day.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:16 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
The bad news is that their backup plan is probably to destroy the American healthcare system and blame the Democrats.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:16 PM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:16 PM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
Ryan...well, I've never been clear on how he's gotten the rep as a strategic genius
I hold with Paul Krugman's assessment that the media, confronted with a Republican Party so completely unmoored from reality in order to push their unworkable and unpopular agenda, is desperate to find a "serious, honest, conservative wonk" to laud, or otherwise they don't sound "balanced" simply by reporting objective reality.
posted by Gelatin at 1:17 PM on March 23, 2017 [25 favorites]
I hold with Paul Krugman's assessment that the media, confronted with a Republican Party so completely unmoored from reality in order to push their unworkable and unpopular agenda, is desperate to find a "serious, honest, conservative wonk" to laud, or otherwise they don't sound "balanced" simply by reporting objective reality.
posted by Gelatin at 1:17 PM on March 23, 2017 [25 favorites]
the media is desperate to find a "serious, honest, conservative wonk"
Exactly, and the fact that Paul Ryan is the best the Republican party has to offer is extremely telling.
posted by diogenes at 1:21 PM on March 23, 2017 [25 favorites]
Exactly, and the fact that Paul Ryan is the best the Republican party has to offer is extremely telling.
posted by diogenes at 1:21 PM on March 23, 2017 [25 favorites]
The bad news is that their backup plan is probably to destroy the American healthcare system and blame the Democrats.
Their base might buy it, but aren't even low-information voters aware that Republicans are now in control of both Congress and the Presidency? Heck, Obama (as often happens) was blamed for not fixing certain problems that he couldn't either because they aren't within the president's powers or because the Republican Congress simply refused to let him be perceived as effective, the rotten traitors.
From the reporting I've seen, Trump's supporters generally say that they trust him to get things done and fix things as he's promised to do. I doubt all of them will be in a forgiving mood when he fails.
posted by Gelatin at 1:22 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Their base might buy it, but aren't even low-information voters aware that Republicans are now in control of both Congress and the Presidency? Heck, Obama (as often happens) was blamed for not fixing certain problems that he couldn't either because they aren't within the president's powers or because the Republican Congress simply refused to let him be perceived as effective, the rotten traitors.
From the reporting I've seen, Trump's supporters generally say that they trust him to get things done and fix things as he's promised to do. I doubt all of them will be in a forgiving mood when he fails.
posted by Gelatin at 1:22 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
i think everyone is just too tired of winning by now
posted by localhuman at 1:22 PM on March 23, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 1:22 PM on March 23, 2017 [27 favorites]
> The bad news is that their backup plan is probably to destroy the American healthcare system and blame the Democrats.
Sorry, no. I mean, yes, they'll try. But they control the House, the Senate, and the Presidency. And N state governorships and legislatures, and most of the Federal courts. Things that break now are on them.
And I think Democrats in the House and Senate would be perfectly content to stand back and let them own the disaster - the only problem is that people are going to die from their incompetence.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:24 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sorry, no. I mean, yes, they'll try. But they control the House, the Senate, and the Presidency. And N state governorships and legislatures, and most of the Federal courts. Things that break now are on them.
And I think Democrats in the House and Senate would be perfectly content to stand back and let them own the disaster - the only problem is that people are going to die from their incompetence.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:24 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
It feels to me like the administration is going to move on to phase two of their Master Plan O' Doom and start gutting the regulations that are under the Secretary of HHS's purview. Things like standards of care, how the essential health benefits are implemented and the things they actually cover, etc. They still have a lot of room to maneuver without needing to get any actual legislation passed.
posted by zrail at 1:25 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zrail at 1:25 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Next up, repealing the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Back to the future.
At this point I fully expect them to start ranting about our lax, socialist forest charter policies and just go ahead and repeal the god damn Magna Carta.
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 1:26 PM on March 23, 2017 [20 favorites]
At this point I fully expect them to start ranting about our lax, socialist forest charter policies and just go ahead and repeal the god damn Magna Carta.
posted by Dormant Gorilla at 1:26 PM on March 23, 2017 [20 favorites]
Ryan...well, I've never been clear on how he's gotten the rep as a strategic genius
He is a man who has so for managed to keep a pretty tight schedule on his grooming with regularly scheduled workouts, haircuts and teeth cleanings. The press generally doesn't look any closer than that.
posted by srboisvert at 1:26 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
He is a man who has so for managed to keep a pretty tight schedule on his grooming with regularly scheduled workouts, haircuts and teeth cleanings. The press generally doesn't look any closer than that.
posted by srboisvert at 1:26 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
I may well be whistling past the graveyard here, but I don't see how any serious revision of the ACA gets passed. The GOP really is the dog who caught the car here.
The head of the Freedom Caucus thinks that they will pass it. [Combining twitter posts into a statement from Chad Pergram's twitter]
posted by gladly at 1:28 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
The head of the Freedom Caucus thinks that they will pass it. [Combining twitter posts into a statement from Chad Pergram's twitter]
Freedom Caucus chair Meadows says he still thinks they can get to yes on health care bill. Meadows says they are working at getting "another 30 or 40" members to vote yes on health care bill. Could only lose 21 votes. Meadows says he is a no on health care bill and is "desparate" to get to yes. Meadows on health care: Where we are tonight continuing to debate this is in good faith not only w/ conference but w/ president. Meadows on health care: We are going to get to finish line b/c the president, moderates & conservatives commited to getting to finish line. Meadows on health care: The president has made very good faith good will gestures. It's having impact.If the Freedom Caucus can deliver 30-40 members on a gutted AHCA bill, I don't know that there are enough moderate Republicans left to vote against it.
posted by gladly at 1:28 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
the only problem is that people are going to die from their incompetence.Right, but that's a pretty big problem. This isn't just a question of political winners and losers. We might end up better off in the long run, but a lot of people are going to get hurt getting there.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:29 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh my. From the pool report:
posted by zachlipton at 1:30 PM on March 23, 2017 [34 favorites]
The president joked a couple of times that he couldn't spend too much time with the truckers because of the AHCAvote.This happened literally as they announced they're not having a vote tonight.
"I'mnot going to make it too long, because I have to get votes," he said to laughter."I don't want to spend too much time with you. I'm going to lose by one vote and then I'm going to blame the truckers."
posted by zachlipton at 1:30 PM on March 23, 2017 [34 favorites]
zachlipton: The White House is now saying the vote would be after midnight, if there is a vote.
Rhaomi: Thursday vote on health care bill canceled
1) way to wimp out when things get tough - that was a quick flop from "let's vote after midnight!" to "ah, fook it, we're tired, so let's break and reconvene at 7 PM to talk about what we could do ... uh ... later"
2) I'm loving the fact that The Closer can't negotiate with his own party, and hasn't even bothered to talk to Democrats
3) I'm not sure if I'm happy that The Closer didn't thrown any more goodies for the far-right Freedom Caucus, which represents less than 10% of the House, or that those idjits thought they could gut the plan further and it would somehow still make it through the more central-aligned Senate.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:36 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Rhaomi: Thursday vote on health care bill canceled
Hours later, House leaders canceled a planned Thursday night vote on the legislation. There was no immediate word when a vote might occur. The House Republican Conference is planning to meet at 7 p.m. about how to proceed.Three thoughts:
Negotiations between Trump and the arch-conservatives opponents of the bill reached at least a temporary standstill after Freedom Caucus members were told recent concessions to the far-right represented a final offer. The group rejected that, wanting more.
1) way to wimp out when things get tough - that was a quick flop from "let's vote after midnight!" to "ah, fook it, we're tired, so let's break and reconvene at 7 PM to talk about what we could do ... uh ... later"
2) I'm loving the fact that The Closer can't negotiate with his own party, and hasn't even bothered to talk to Democrats
3) I'm not sure if I'm happy that The Closer didn't thrown any more goodies for the far-right Freedom Caucus, which represents less than 10% of the House, or that those idjits thought they could gut the plan further and it would somehow still make it through the more central-aligned Senate.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:36 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is a great photo of Trump in the truck.
posted by sporkwort at 1:38 PM on March 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by sporkwort at 1:38 PM on March 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
Just caption it "Thelma and Louise."
posted by zachlipton at 1:40 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 1:40 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
scaryblackdeath I agree with what you said 100% about educators. I worked IT for most of my life, went to school got a teaching certificate and taught 8th grade science for a year. Loved it, despite the fairly low pay and backbreaking work.
Then my family's economic situation changed and we needed more money, so now I'm working IT again. And I like IT just fine, but if it paid more I'd still be teaching. As it is I'm busy paying off a student loan I got for a teaching certificate that's just sitting around doing nothing.
You want more and better teachers? Make the pay commiserate with the job's difficulty, the educational burden it requires, and (most important) give us fucking supplies. I spent around $2,000 of my own money on school supplies, some for students who couldn't afford their own pencils and paper, some for lab materials the school wouldn't buy.
I don't know any teacher who spends less than $1,000 a year of their own money on stuff for the school or their students, most spend more.
posted by sotonohito at 1:42 PM on March 23, 2017 [37 favorites]
Then my family's economic situation changed and we needed more money, so now I'm working IT again. And I like IT just fine, but if it paid more I'd still be teaching. As it is I'm busy paying off a student loan I got for a teaching certificate that's just sitting around doing nothing.
You want more and better teachers? Make the pay commiserate with the job's difficulty, the educational burden it requires, and (most important) give us fucking supplies. I spent around $2,000 of my own money on school supplies, some for students who couldn't afford their own pencils and paper, some for lab materials the school wouldn't buy.
I don't know any teacher who spends less than $1,000 a year of their own money on stuff for the school or their students, most spend more.
posted by sotonohito at 1:42 PM on March 23, 2017 [37 favorites]
> I'm loving the fact that The Closer can't negotiate with his own party, and hasn't even bothered to talk to Democrats
I'm really thankful, but honestly a bit baffled, by the fact that it apparently hasn't yet crossed his mind (or Paul Ryan's) that they could sweeten the bill substantially and get 50 Democrats to vote for it, even if they lost 40 Teahadists. Because you know some Democrats would do it given half a chance.
Ryan and Trump's total disrespect for the process is probably a lifeline for us here.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:42 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm really thankful, but honestly a bit baffled, by the fact that it apparently hasn't yet crossed his mind (or Paul Ryan's) that they could sweeten the bill substantially and get 50 Democrats to vote for it, even if they lost 40 Teahadists. Because you know some Democrats would do it given half a chance.
Ryan and Trump's total disrespect for the process is probably a lifeline for us here.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:42 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
gladly: "The head of the Freedom Caucus thinks that they will pass it."
Sure. I could be wrong! But it seems like the longer this goes, the more people know about it, the less likely it passes. Ryan was RIGHT on tactical grounds to try and ram this through (it's bad from a process standpoint, and he's a huge hypocrite, yes).
posted by Chrysostom at 1:43 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Sure. I could be wrong! But it seems like the longer this goes, the more people know about it, the less likely it passes. Ryan was RIGHT on tactical grounds to try and ram this through (it's bad from a process standpoint, and he's a huge hypocrite, yes).
posted by Chrysostom at 1:43 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
So many people are going to die in the name of freedom to die in a ditch.
posted by Talez at 1:44 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Talez at 1:44 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
As for the Trump in a Truck photos, that last one looks like it should be captioned "unfortunately the President discovered that the driver's seat was not, in fact, a built in toilet"
posted by sotonohito at 1:45 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by sotonohito at 1:45 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
But you'll have choice! You'll be able to choose which ditch!
posted by supercrayon at 1:45 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by supercrayon at 1:45 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
My mom has been an ICU and then hospice nurse for 45 or so years. My siblings and I had to force her to retire at 80, after which she promptly started taking part-time hospice work. She is also deeply religious. Growing up a nurse's kid I knew lots of nurses. Not many got into the job for the money and most found a calling in caring for people that makes them the best among us.
To hear my mom tell it the issues have less to do with pay (although intertwined) and more with respect and the ability to do their jobs professionally, swamped as they are by a vast bureaucracy and records technology that makes a nurse with 45 fucking years of experience helping people die spend four hours a night as a data entry clerk and whose professional judgment is hemmed in by lawyers and insurance administrators and bureaucrats. Let me tell you that if you have a dying elder in your home my mom is the person you want to see pulling into your driveway and literally thousands of families could tell you so.
Pay was never ever close to commensurate with her labor or her skill. As an ascetic she never cared.
It's when people that do it for love not money are disrespected financially and professionally and the judgements of skilled practitioners are subjugated to people who have no obligation to patients that people like my mom won't go into nursing.
I've spent way too much time in hospitals in recent years as a caretaker and gotten to know many young nurses. (When you're a nurse's kid, you get to know the nursing staff well over months at a time.) most of them are idealistic -- granted this is a big city teaching hospital -- and almost all are nursing for the reason my mom chose the profession, a huge surplus of love for fellow humans and/or a sense of faith-based obligation or both, often both.
As with teachers, these people (and there are of course other categories or classes of people who give more than they have to or get paid to do) are the real canaries in our society's values mine.
Every single one of us will need a hospice nurse if we're lucky enough to foresee our time of dying. Any policy that hurts nurses hurts America. Badly.
posted by spitbull at 1:46 PM on March 23, 2017 [65 favorites]
To hear my mom tell it the issues have less to do with pay (although intertwined) and more with respect and the ability to do their jobs professionally, swamped as they are by a vast bureaucracy and records technology that makes a nurse with 45 fucking years of experience helping people die spend four hours a night as a data entry clerk and whose professional judgment is hemmed in by lawyers and insurance administrators and bureaucrats. Let me tell you that if you have a dying elder in your home my mom is the person you want to see pulling into your driveway and literally thousands of families could tell you so.
Pay was never ever close to commensurate with her labor or her skill. As an ascetic she never cared.
It's when people that do it for love not money are disrespected financially and professionally and the judgements of skilled practitioners are subjugated to people who have no obligation to patients that people like my mom won't go into nursing.
I've spent way too much time in hospitals in recent years as a caretaker and gotten to know many young nurses. (When you're a nurse's kid, you get to know the nursing staff well over months at a time.) most of them are idealistic -- granted this is a big city teaching hospital -- and almost all are nursing for the reason my mom chose the profession, a huge surplus of love for fellow humans and/or a sense of faith-based obligation or both, often both.
As with teachers, these people (and there are of course other categories or classes of people who give more than they have to or get paid to do) are the real canaries in our society's values mine.
Every single one of us will need a hospice nurse if we're lucky enough to foresee our time of dying. Any policy that hurts nurses hurts America. Badly.
posted by spitbull at 1:46 PM on March 23, 2017 [65 favorites]
Come on, nobody is going to be dying in ditches. They're much more likely to die in their miserable little homes
posted by theodolite at 1:47 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 1:47 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
"The head of the Freedom Caucus thinks that they will pass it."
On the other hand, if you're the head of the Freedom Caucus, you're really dumb and don't know anything about how to govern, create anything, or pass actual legislation.
posted by diogenes at 1:48 PM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
On the other hand, if you're the head of the Freedom Caucus, you're really dumb and don't know anything about how to govern, create anything, or pass actual legislation.
posted by diogenes at 1:48 PM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
On the other hand, if you're the head of the Freedom Caucus, you're really dumb and don't know anything about how to govern, create anything, or pass actual legislation.
Well, aren't those the requirements they put in the job posting?
posted by ArgentCorvid at 1:50 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well, aren't those the requirements they put in the job posting?
posted by ArgentCorvid at 1:50 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Come on, nobody is going to be dying in ditches. They're much more likely to die in their filthy, miserable homes
The ditches have all been equipped with anti-homelessness spikes.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:51 PM on March 23, 2017 [50 favorites]
The ditches have all been equipped with anti-homelessness spikes.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:51 PM on March 23, 2017 [50 favorites]
I'm really thankful, but honestly a bit baffled, by the fact that it apparently hasn't yet crossed his mind (or Paul Ryan's) that they could sweeten the bill substantially and get 50 Democrats to vote for it, even if they lost 40 Teahadists. Because you know some Democrats would do it given half a chance.
I'm having trouble envisioning how this would work. This isn't a health care bill. There's essentially nothing in it that improves healthcare costs, delivery or outcomes for anyone, in any way. It's a tax cut for billionaires disguised as a health bill, funded by stealing Medicaid dollars from the poor to hand directly to the rich.
Fundamentally, the Republicans don't give a fuck about health policy. Or to the extent they do, they want to end access by ending government involvement in health care at all. Democrats by contrast, do care about health policy. And they have a basically working system in place passed by Democrats that's becoming more popular by the day. Could you design a bill to improve the ACA? Yes, absolutely. You might even find some outlier Republicans that would agree with it in the abstract. But actually improving health policy is not and has never been the goal of the Republican Party broadly, much less this Republican Party led by Ryan and the Granny Starvers. Tax cuts are the goal. There's not really any overlap between this bill, what passes for Republican health policy, and anything that would entice Democrats to come on board, because they're not even having the same conversation.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:51 PM on March 23, 2017 [30 favorites]
I'm having trouble envisioning how this would work. This isn't a health care bill. There's essentially nothing in it that improves healthcare costs, delivery or outcomes for anyone, in any way. It's a tax cut for billionaires disguised as a health bill, funded by stealing Medicaid dollars from the poor to hand directly to the rich.
Fundamentally, the Republicans don't give a fuck about health policy. Or to the extent they do, they want to end access by ending government involvement in health care at all. Democrats by contrast, do care about health policy. And they have a basically working system in place passed by Democrats that's becoming more popular by the day. Could you design a bill to improve the ACA? Yes, absolutely. You might even find some outlier Republicans that would agree with it in the abstract. But actually improving health policy is not and has never been the goal of the Republican Party broadly, much less this Republican Party led by Ryan and the Granny Starvers. Tax cuts are the goal. There's not really any overlap between this bill, what passes for Republican health policy, and anything that would entice Democrats to come on board, because they're not even having the same conversation.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:51 PM on March 23, 2017 [30 favorites]
I would like to give filthy light thief some mad props for calling it earlier in this thread about photo ops with big equipment.
posted by frecklefaerie at 1:52 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by frecklefaerie at 1:52 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
spitbull Problem is that we shouldn't have a requirement that our medical, or teaching, professionals, be essentially ascetics who do it out of a sense of self sacrifice.
I suspect we've got that BS in large part because both professions are historically women's professions, and we expect women to do emotional labor (and other labor) for free. The attitude that nurses or teachers should be doing it out of a selfless devotion to the vocation is pure poison and it's deeply unfortunate that so many people in both professions basically do chose to be martyrs to the job. I understand the urge, if I was single and didn't have a kid to take care of I'd be teaching even though the pay is shit compared to what I can get for similar education in computers. And in the sense that we need educators and nurses I'm glad that so many people, mostly women, are willing to do a hard often thankless job for far too little pay.
But we've got to change that so we can keep on having nurses and teachers.
posted by sotonohito at 1:52 PM on March 23, 2017 [25 favorites]
I suspect we've got that BS in large part because both professions are historically women's professions, and we expect women to do emotional labor (and other labor) for free. The attitude that nurses or teachers should be doing it out of a selfless devotion to the vocation is pure poison and it's deeply unfortunate that so many people in both professions basically do chose to be martyrs to the job. I understand the urge, if I was single and didn't have a kid to take care of I'd be teaching even though the pay is shit compared to what I can get for similar education in computers. And in the sense that we need educators and nurses I'm glad that so many people, mostly women, are willing to do a hard often thankless job for far too little pay.
But we've got to change that so we can keep on having nurses and teachers.
posted by sotonohito at 1:52 PM on March 23, 2017 [25 favorites]
Just caption it "Thelma and Louise."
Trumperiosa starring in Fury Road
posted by kokaku at 1:52 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Trumperiosa starring in Fury Road
posted by kokaku at 1:52 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Come on, nobody is going to be dying in ditches. They're much more likely to die in their miserable little homes
How optimistic of you to think that sick people are still going to be able to afford homes.
posted by lydhre at 1:52 PM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
How optimistic of you to think that sick people are still going to be able to afford homes.
posted by lydhre at 1:52 PM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
We are going to get to finish line b/c the president, moderates & conservatives commited to getting to finish line
What does it mean to take a bill you don't support to the finish line?
This is fascinating to me in a worrying sort of way that I don't know if I can properly explain. So he wants different health care law, fair enough. And ACHA is different... but it's not the different he would prefer. So instead of, I don't know, authoring a different bill, he's willing to take this to the finish line. Probably with a bunch of amendments to get a third different option.
So I'm curious if he could explain what he wants healthcare law to look like, because we have this concept in computer science, that by the time you've actually fully explained what a program should do, well, congratulations, you've written the program. Because an idea will always have gotchas and loopholes that come up as the implementation is being written. That means sometimes a seemingly terrible design was the best possible outcome given available resources, and that it's often pointless to armchair-quarterback decisions if you're not in the trenches.
"Nobody knew healthcare could be so complicated"? That's a classic 3 month problem right there, let me tell you.
So anyway, there's this guy who tells 29 other MoCs what to do, who's gonna "know it when he sees it", just so he can take "different" to the finish line. Difference for the sake of difference. Change for the sake of change.
(Change without knowing what that change should be?)
I guess my point here is that there sure are a lot of people in this country who like voting for different, withoutrealizing caring that some differents might be worse than the status quo.
Can people somehow learn that "change" is in no way a useful metric? Should I start sending people to project management classes?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:55 PM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
What does it mean to take a bill you don't support to the finish line?
This is fascinating to me in a worrying sort of way that I don't know if I can properly explain. So he wants different health care law, fair enough. And ACHA is different... but it's not the different he would prefer. So instead of, I don't know, authoring a different bill, he's willing to take this to the finish line. Probably with a bunch of amendments to get a third different option.
So I'm curious if he could explain what he wants healthcare law to look like, because we have this concept in computer science, that by the time you've actually fully explained what a program should do, well, congratulations, you've written the program. Because an idea will always have gotchas and loopholes that come up as the implementation is being written. That means sometimes a seemingly terrible design was the best possible outcome given available resources, and that it's often pointless to armchair-quarterback decisions if you're not in the trenches.
"Nobody knew healthcare could be so complicated"? That's a classic 3 month problem right there, let me tell you.
So anyway, there's this guy who tells 29 other MoCs what to do, who's gonna "know it when he sees it", just so he can take "different" to the finish line. Difference for the sake of difference. Change for the sake of change.
(Change without knowing what that change should be?)
I guess my point here is that there sure are a lot of people in this country who like voting for different, without
Can people somehow learn that "change" is in no way a useful metric? Should I start sending people to project management classes?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:55 PM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
Again, how is it that the AARP isn't bringing down the wrath of God on these folks, given that old people are one of the Republicans' core constituencies and this bill will kill thousands of them? How are there not phone banks of grannies going to town on these assholes?
posted by leotrotsky at 1:55 PM on March 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 1:55 PM on March 23, 2017 [23 favorites]
"Not only does Congress not want American women to have real maternity leave, they are going to actively punish women for not working soon enough after their child is born."
Not to mention how well (a) pregnant women can get jobs, and (b) job hunt either while pregnant or having recently given birth, assuming (c) anyone wants to hire them under those circumstances.
"You want more and better teachers? Make the pay commiserate with the job's difficulty, the educational burden it requires, and (most important) give us fucking supplies."
It'd be nice if they didn't treat the teachers like crap and lay them off every year by default too.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:56 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
Not to mention how well (a) pregnant women can get jobs, and (b) job hunt either while pregnant or having recently given birth, assuming (c) anyone wants to hire them under those circumstances.
"You want more and better teachers? Make the pay commiserate with the job's difficulty, the educational burden it requires, and (most important) give us fucking supplies."
It'd be nice if they didn't treat the teachers like crap and lay them off every year by default too.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:56 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
Fundamentally, the Republicans don't give a fuck about health policy. Or to the extent they do, they want to end access by ending government invovrdment in health care at all. Democrats by contrast, do care about health policy.
538 has a interesting article up about how the fight over healthcare isn't actually about healthcare, really - or, it is, but it's more about broader things.
538 has a interesting article up about how the fight over healthcare isn't actually about healthcare, really - or, it is, but it's more about broader things.
In many ways, the two parties, while focusing on the technical details of health care, are also debating fundamental questions about the role of government, work, income redistribution, race, class and Barack Obama. This is not just a debate about health care premiums or your ability to choose your doctor, no matter how often Nancy Pelosi or Paul Ryan talks about those things. Health care, more than almost any other issue, hinges on real, deep values and ideals that divide the two parties in Washington and, more importantly, Blue America and Red America.posted by corb at 1:58 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
"If we don’t pass this out of the House, this is the beginning of the end for us as a Republican Party.”
— Rep. Dennis Ross (R-FL), quoted by the Tampa Bay Times, on the GOP Obamacare replacement.
That would be great, thanks!
posted by Chrysostom at 1:59 PM on March 23, 2017 [55 favorites]
— Rep. Dennis Ross (R-FL), quoted by the Tampa Bay Times, on the GOP Obamacare replacement.
That would be great, thanks!
posted by Chrysostom at 1:59 PM on March 23, 2017 [55 favorites]
Instead of computer programming, I think there might be a better metaphor to be had in comparing healthcare to the "Is Pluto a planet?" debate posted today, in that some people want something tweaked just a little, and don't seem to comprehend that when you want start with something simple like "not having to pay for other people's healthcare", all of a sudden you need a mnemonic for 110 planet names.
But now my rambling is really all over the place.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 2:02 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
But now my rambling is really all over the place.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 2:02 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
My mother-in-law--a badass union-organizing saint who walks amongst us--is a retired RN. When my husband and I were both flailing around trying to decide what to be when we growed up (at the age of 24) my husband considered nursing school. His mom's advice was OMG NO DON'T. And it's not the pay, it's the everything else. The weird, long hours, the disrespect from administration, the ever-increasing patient ratios and the fact that for some reason the people who run hospitals are universally fucking terrible humans.
So we both went on to get teaching degrees ha ha ha haaaaaa. Ha. (Spoiler alert: neither of us do that any more either.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 2:05 PM on March 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
So we both went on to get teaching degrees ha ha ha haaaaaa. Ha. (Spoiler alert: neither of us do that any more either.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 2:05 PM on March 23, 2017 [28 favorites]
Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug You've probably already seen it, but there's a comic that encapsulates that aspect of the American voter perfectly.
posted by sotonohito at 2:06 PM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by sotonohito at 2:06 PM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
I have not seen that! Thank you!
Anyway, this dilemma the AHCA has been put in is exactly why the freelance job I finished up last night was 85% done before I even bid for the job. It was a new variation of a what I normally do, and I knew I could probably get it taken care of, but also knew that I'd be in big trouble if I couldn't. So I did enough work to know it was actually possible before I said I could do it.
As jackbishop asked, Who in Congress didn't do their work ahead of time here?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 2:09 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Anyway, this dilemma the AHCA has been put in is exactly why the freelance job I finished up last night was 85% done before I even bid for the job. It was a new variation of a what I normally do, and I knew I could probably get it taken care of, but also knew that I'd be in big trouble if I couldn't. So I did enough work to know it was actually possible before I said I could do it.
As jackbishop asked, Who in Congress didn't do their work ahead of time here?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 2:09 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
New CBO score. Looks like they made it cost more, but no real change to coverage or premiums. Nice work, Paul!
posted by zachlipton at 2:10 PM on March 23, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 2:10 PM on March 23, 2017 [20 favorites]
Current CNN headline: Not enough votes -- House delays health care bill to Friday
Health care reform is like a group project in high school school civics class where everyone has to work together, and everyone has to show the teacher they contributed something. The Democratic group project wasn't perfect, and some people prevented others from contributing as much as they could have, but it was finished on time and it got a passing grade.
The Republican group trash-talked everyone else's work, boasted about how great their project would be, waited eight years until the night before it was due, and then asked the teacher for a one-day extension.
posted by compartment at 2:11 PM on March 23, 2017 [68 favorites]
Health care reform is like a group project in high school school civics class where everyone has to work together, and everyone has to show the teacher they contributed something. The Democratic group project wasn't perfect, and some people prevented others from contributing as much as they could have, but it was finished on time and it got a passing grade.
The Republican group trash-talked everyone else's work, boasted about how great their project would be, waited eight years until the night before it was due, and then asked the teacher for a one-day extension.
posted by compartment at 2:11 PM on March 23, 2017 [68 favorites]
sotonohito of course I agree and of course it is because of the gendering of these professions. My larger point is that we shouldn't reduce work to its economic value or productivity. People willing to work at helping professions despite low pay deserve to be paid the most. But respect goes beyond pay and touches the question of what we are as a society morally. Like the rest of the health care debate really it comes down to right wingers not understanding common humanity, not seeing health care as a common good not an individual entitlement or a prize for being rich.
Nurses and even most doctors I know see all patients as equally deserving of compassion as fellow human beings and then they go above and beyond that and clean out your diaper as you weaken or pray with you as you die. It's a love beyond money that leads someone to do that work for any price for strangers.
We are spiritually dead as a people if we reduce liberty and happiness to taxes and paychecks. Even big paychecks or fair taxes.
That's what these ghouls want. Spiritual death. It's why we must not despair and retreat into whatever privilege or cynicism we have as shelter.
But yeah nurses need to be paid a lot more. And insurance executives a lot less. No damn doubt
posted by spitbull at 2:13 PM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
Nurses and even most doctors I know see all patients as equally deserving of compassion as fellow human beings and then they go above and beyond that and clean out your diaper as you weaken or pray with you as you die. It's a love beyond money that leads someone to do that work for any price for strangers.
We are spiritually dead as a people if we reduce liberty and happiness to taxes and paychecks. Even big paychecks or fair taxes.
That's what these ghouls want. Spiritual death. It's why we must not despair and retreat into whatever privilege or cynicism we have as shelter.
But yeah nurses need to be paid a lot more. And insurance executives a lot less. No damn doubt
posted by spitbull at 2:13 PM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
what the hell is he doing in that Truck photo. It looks like he's imagining running over the bones of his enemies and screaming in triumph
posted by angrycat at 2:15 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 2:15 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
> what the hell is he doing in that Truck photo
His entire inner monologue is "Vroooom, vrooom, VROOOOOM! VROOOOOOOOOOM!"
That's probably the most coherent thought he's had in his head since he admired Abe's interpreter's bust.
Our president. (Sob.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:19 PM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
His entire inner monologue is "Vroooom, vrooom, VROOOOOM! VROOOOOOOOOOM!"
That's probably the most coherent thought he's had in his head since he admired Abe's interpreter's bust.
Our president. (Sob.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:19 PM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
Not to defend Trump or anything, but I'm pretty sure I'd be making vroom vroom sounds in that situation too.
posted by downtohisturtles at 2:23 PM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 2:23 PM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
Y'all are warming the cold recesses of my heart with this talk about nurses. Nursing is often like sexism: the job. We're expected to be warm and giving and selfless and not care about getting paid or having safe staffing or decent working conditions. We're expected to just accept things like patients assaulting us or treating us like crap. Our appearance, speech, and general demeanor are heavily policed. We have an extremely paternalistic relationship with the decision-makers at our job, both management and governmental, who often don't consult us before making huge changes to our practice.
And unfortunately a lot of nurses buy into this. Part of this is personal, part is societal, and part is even our training. In New Zealand you're told on your first day of nursing school, "You better not have gotten into nursing to get rich." which basically sets the expectation that it's normal to be under-compensated financially for what we do. We get asked to do more with less all the time, and to accept this with a smile and not complain and just pull together and be good team players. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Does this just sound like what women are expected to do every moment of their waking lives?
As for no incentive to be a nursing educator - yes a thousand times. This is me, I want to teach nursing and do research because I'm passionate about educating our future workforce and want to be a nurse scientist. After I wrap up my MPH I'm heading towards doing a PhD so that I can do both those things, but it won't be to get $$$. On a personal note, I had intended to apply to complete my PhD in the States, because I think you get better research training there. But between the NIH cuts and the anti-immigration stuff that's out the window now.
posted by supercrayon at 2:24 PM on March 23, 2017 [33 favorites]
And unfortunately a lot of nurses buy into this. Part of this is personal, part is societal, and part is even our training. In New Zealand you're told on your first day of nursing school, "You better not have gotten into nursing to get rich." which basically sets the expectation that it's normal to be under-compensated financially for what we do. We get asked to do more with less all the time, and to accept this with a smile and not complain and just pull together and be good team players. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Does this just sound like what women are expected to do every moment of their waking lives?
As for no incentive to be a nursing educator - yes a thousand times. This is me, I want to teach nursing and do research because I'm passionate about educating our future workforce and want to be a nurse scientist. After I wrap up my MPH I'm heading towards doing a PhD so that I can do both those things, but it won't be to get $$$. On a personal note, I had intended to apply to complete my PhD in the States, because I think you get better research training there. But between the NIH cuts and the anti-immigration stuff that's out the window now.
posted by supercrayon at 2:24 PM on March 23, 2017 [33 favorites]
The new CBO score gives gives 116$ billion more tax cuts than the original draft.
So all they're doing is adding even more tax cuts for rich people while screwing the poor harder.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:26 PM on March 23, 2017 [36 favorites]
So all they're doing is adding even more tax cuts for rich people while screwing the poor harder.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:26 PM on March 23, 2017 [36 favorites]
As jackbishop asked, Who in Congress didn't do their work ahead of time here?
The answer is that the work was impossible.
The reason the Republicans don't have an ACA replacement ready to roll out, despite having had 7 years to work on one, is because there is literally no possible further rightward plan that can exist and still actually do the job.
The ACA is the most rightward possible law that can still actually approximate universal coverage. That's why so many of us on the left were so enraged at Obama when the final form came out, because it is, literally, a Republican healthcare plan. I say "literally" because it's RomneyCare writ large, it's the plan straight from the Heritage Foundation's own proposals.
The reason the Republicans can't come up with a more Republican, more right leaning, plan is because one does not exist. If it did they'd be deploying it.
And that's their dilemma. They convinced a lot of their voters that the ACA was the most vile, evil, horrible, Communist, law ever and it had to be immediately repealed and replaced with something more in line with Republican values, good old fashioned bootstraps, and America. But it's **ALREADY** as far to the right as it is possible to make a healthcare plan that still actually does the job of providing people with healthcare.
So they're stuck.
Sure, the Teabaggers would be happy with just a repeal and let the poor die in the streets sort of plan, but outside the truly devoted ideologues most Republicans have constituents who have benefited from the ACA and if they steal their health insurance those voters will be righteously pissed.
In an ideal world (for them) they'd repeal it and replace it with a plan that does exactly the same thing with ever so slightly different names and details, call it TrumpCare, and declare victory. But the Teabaggers aren't on board with that, and the money Republicans demand the massive wealth redistribution of the ACA's subsidies be ended.
So they're screwed.
I think they'll still kludge something together that all their factions will agree on at least long enough for it to pass with a single vote, and then they'll blame the Democrats and Obama for it's inevitably failure and the pain it inflicts on their voters.
But the reason they don't have a plan isn't laziness or an unwillingness to work, it's because they literally can't have a plan. The ACA is their plan, there is not one single way you can make the ACA more Republican, more right wing, without destroying it utterly.
posted by sotonohito at 2:26 PM on March 23, 2017 [88 favorites]
The answer is that the work was impossible.
The reason the Republicans don't have an ACA replacement ready to roll out, despite having had 7 years to work on one, is because there is literally no possible further rightward plan that can exist and still actually do the job.
The ACA is the most rightward possible law that can still actually approximate universal coverage. That's why so many of us on the left were so enraged at Obama when the final form came out, because it is, literally, a Republican healthcare plan. I say "literally" because it's RomneyCare writ large, it's the plan straight from the Heritage Foundation's own proposals.
The reason the Republicans can't come up with a more Republican, more right leaning, plan is because one does not exist. If it did they'd be deploying it.
And that's their dilemma. They convinced a lot of their voters that the ACA was the most vile, evil, horrible, Communist, law ever and it had to be immediately repealed and replaced with something more in line with Republican values, good old fashioned bootstraps, and America. But it's **ALREADY** as far to the right as it is possible to make a healthcare plan that still actually does the job of providing people with healthcare.
So they're stuck.
Sure, the Teabaggers would be happy with just a repeal and let the poor die in the streets sort of plan, but outside the truly devoted ideologues most Republicans have constituents who have benefited from the ACA and if they steal their health insurance those voters will be righteously pissed.
In an ideal world (for them) they'd repeal it and replace it with a plan that does exactly the same thing with ever so slightly different names and details, call it TrumpCare, and declare victory. But the Teabaggers aren't on board with that, and the money Republicans demand the massive wealth redistribution of the ACA's subsidies be ended.
So they're screwed.
I think they'll still kludge something together that all their factions will agree on at least long enough for it to pass with a single vote, and then they'll blame the Democrats and Obama for it's inevitably failure and the pain it inflicts on their voters.
But the reason they don't have a plan isn't laziness or an unwillingness to work, it's because they literally can't have a plan. The ACA is their plan, there is not one single way you can make the ACA more Republican, more right wing, without destroying it utterly.
posted by sotonohito at 2:26 PM on March 23, 2017 [88 favorites]
I was worried the Muslim Bans would be an effort to get Canada to build its own wall, with Canadians angry at the influx of refugees. Instead, this piece on NPR gave me hope that 1) Canada has its shit together, and 2) they're continuing to treat people with dignity and respect, welcoming them in and helping them get established in their communities.
This reporter did a follow-up story today on our local station (NCPR). There will be a part 2 tomorrow where he talks with Canadians who are not happy with increased settlement of asylum seekers.
posted by saffry at 2:29 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
This reporter did a follow-up story today on our local station (NCPR). There will be a part 2 tomorrow where he talks with Canadians who are not happy with increased settlement of asylum seekers.
posted by saffry at 2:29 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
There will be a part 2 tomorrow where he talks with Canadians who are not happy with increased settlement of asylum seekers.
Will there be a part 3 where he talks with Canadians who ARE happy with their country helping asylum seekers? And if not, why only cover one side of the reaction?
posted by rocket88 at 2:35 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Will there be a part 3 where he talks with Canadians who ARE happy with their country helping asylum seekers? And if not, why only cover one side of the reaction?
posted by rocket88 at 2:35 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
538 has a interesting article up about how the fight over healthcare isn't actually about healthcare, really - or, it is, but it's more about broader things.
It also seems like another boring and uninspired piece in the genre that tries hard to portray both sides having arguments of equal moral and intellectual weight. But actually, if you read it, the theme that comes out is that conservative opposition pretty much boils down to "racism," "hating taxes just because they exist is one of the pillars of their ideology," and "an extreme unwillingness to accept evidence," in pretty much that order.
Some choice quotes:
posted by zombieflanders at 2:36 PM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
It also seems like another boring and uninspired piece in the genre that tries hard to portray both sides having arguments of equal moral and intellectual weight. But actually, if you read it, the theme that comes out is that conservative opposition pretty much boils down to "racism," "hating taxes just because they exist is one of the pillars of their ideology," and "an extreme unwillingness to accept evidence," in pretty much that order.
Some choice quotes:
- "Obamacare provides a disincentive to work or get a higher-paying job, Republicans say, because its subsidies for marketplace insurance are reduced as your income increases. House Speaker Paul Ryan consistently criticizes anti-poverty programs that are set up this way."
- "In interviews, conservative-leaning voters will tell reporters (see here and here) that they think people on Medicaid are freeloaders. Talking about Obamacare also seems to trigger some conservative voters’ stereotypes about black people getting government benefits that they don’t deserve."
- "Opposition to higher taxes may be the defining feature and central source of agreement of the modern Republican Party, and many Republican members of Congress have signed a pledge not to vote for tax increases."
- "Obamacare was the brainchild of a man who was opposed by Republicans more intensely than any other modern president."
posted by zombieflanders at 2:36 PM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
Can someone explain to me why I should be at all happy that the vote has been delayed? It's just that, a delay. They'll keep tweaking it until it hits some sweet spot* where the far right can say they killed "the important parts" and moderates can say they "protected seniors." Trump will sign any bill that comes to his desk. He doesn't care what's in it. Republicans still have YEARS to gut the thing.
The line R's are trying to walk is the one that says "how do we convince Americans that universal health care is always doomed to fail?" Making gov't fail is the GOP's specialty. If they really, truly cannot find a way to get enough representatives to put their name on it, they'll find a way to make health insurance even more unpleasant. They'll nickel and dime everything, add more paperwork, loosen restrictions on insurers, whatever they can to make it unpopular. Then they'll kill it later as a "failed experiment." See also every single successful government program ever.
* or until all of the dissenters have been bought off with plum committee positions and/or pork barrel projects
posted by rouftop at 2:39 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
The line R's are trying to walk is the one that says "how do we convince Americans that universal health care is always doomed to fail?" Making gov't fail is the GOP's specialty. If they really, truly cannot find a way to get enough representatives to put their name on it, they'll find a way to make health insurance even more unpleasant. They'll nickel and dime everything, add more paperwork, loosen restrictions on insurers, whatever they can to make it unpopular. Then they'll kill it later as a "failed experiment." See also every single successful government program ever.
* or until all of the dissenters have been bought off with plum committee positions and/or pork barrel projects
posted by rouftop at 2:39 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Every day they fail is a day they don't succeed. And a day they show they can't govern. And a day closer to the inevitable impeachment.
posted by leotrotsky at 2:42 PM on March 23, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 2:42 PM on March 23, 2017 [29 favorites]
Sure. You should be happy because it makes Trump look weak, and that's profoundly wounding to a man whose popularity comes completely from the fact that he looks like he can get away with shit. You should be happy because delayed is better than passed. You should be happy because it hands a victory to all of us who have been calling and picketing and showing up at townhalls, and people need occasional victories to keep them going. This is definitely not the end of the fight, but it's something, and we're allowed to celebrate small victories.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:43 PM on March 23, 2017 [39 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:43 PM on March 23, 2017 [39 favorites]
Can someone explain to me why I should be at all happy that the vote has been delayed?
A small victory is still a victory.
Anyway, the worse it makes Trump look, the better.
Also since the Freedom Caucus is the one holding it up, once they appease the ideologues, they'll never get the finished thing through the Senate.
posted by dis_integration at 2:45 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
A small victory is still a victory.
Anyway, the worse it makes Trump look, the better.
Also since the Freedom Caucus is the one holding it up, once they appease the ideologues, they'll never get the finished thing through the Senate.
posted by dis_integration at 2:45 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
His entire inner monologue is "Vroooom, vrooom, VROOOOOM! VROOOOOOOOOOM!"
Hi! I'm the truck driver. I need to step away for a minute, can you watch my truck while I'm gone? Whatever you do, don't let the president drive the truck!
posted by uncleozzy at 2:46 PM on March 23, 2017 [29 favorites]
Hi! I'm the truck driver. I need to step away for a minute, can you watch my truck while I'm gone? Whatever you do, don't let the president drive the truck!
posted by uncleozzy at 2:46 PM on March 23, 2017 [29 favorites]
Nunes is backtracking even more: Intel chair Devin Nunes unsure if Trump associates were directly surveilled:
posted by zachlipton at 2:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [38 favorites]
The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Devin Nunes, R-Calif., does not know "for sure" whether President Donald Trump or members of his transition team were even on the phone calls or other communications now being cited as partial vindication for the president’s wiretapping claims against the Obama administration, according to a spokesperson.He sure rushed to hold a press conference though.
"He said he'll have to get all the documents he requested from the [intelligence community] about this before he knows for sure," a spokesperson for Nunes said Thursday. Nunes was a member of the Trump transition team executive committee.
posted by zachlipton at 2:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [38 favorites]
Can someone explain to me why I should be at all happy that the vote has been delayed?
Well, for a start, because every day's delay saves some lives.
They'll keep tweaking it until it hits some sweet spot* where the far right can say they killed "the important parts" and moderates can say they "protected seniors."
That's definitely one likely outcome, but declaring it to be inevitable renders any kind of resistance whatsoever pretty futile. The US will almost certainly survive this regime, and just how bad a state the country is in when it does is largely dependent on how hard people fight right now.
Republicans still have YEARS to gut the thing.
Two years, to be precise. That's all they're guaranteed - and individual representatives' fear of losing their seats is one of the things that can help reduce and ameliorate the damage that they will undoubtedly do. Given the complete dysfunction of the GOP at this point, less bad outcomes are the only victories outcomes, but that doesn't mean they're not better than the alternative.
posted by howfar at 2:52 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Well, for a start, because every day's delay saves some lives.
They'll keep tweaking it until it hits some sweet spot* where the far right can say they killed "the important parts" and moderates can say they "protected seniors."
That's definitely one likely outcome, but declaring it to be inevitable renders any kind of resistance whatsoever pretty futile. The US will almost certainly survive this regime, and just how bad a state the country is in when it does is largely dependent on how hard people fight right now.
Republicans still have YEARS to gut the thing.
Two years, to be precise. That's all they're guaranteed - and individual representatives' fear of losing their seats is one of the things that can help reduce and ameliorate the damage that they will undoubtedly do. Given the complete dysfunction of the GOP at this point, less bad outcomes are the only victories outcomes, but that doesn't mean they're not better than the alternative.
posted by howfar at 2:52 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Every day this gets delayed and they make it worse to try to wrangle voters is a day that it becomes less likely to pass the Senate. Remember, passing the House is the first and easiest part of the process.
The easiest part.
posted by Justinian at 2:54 PM on March 23, 2017 [32 favorites]
The easiest part.
posted by Justinian at 2:54 PM on March 23, 2017 [32 favorites]
It's one more day of headlines saying it'll eliminate care for 24 million people. One more day for constituents to flood congress with calls saying 'Oh Hell No'. One more day for support for the bill to drop another 8% the more people hear about it. If we can postpone it until the weekend, Congress will go home and hear even more from angry constituents. Every hour of delay is another nail in the coffin!
posted by TwoWordReview at 2:55 PM on March 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 2:55 PM on March 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
I guess the real problem is, it's a bottomless coffin.
posted by darkstar at 3:01 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 3:01 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
After an Immigration Raid, a City's Students Vanish
posted by zachlipton at 3:05 PM on March 23, 2017 [50 favorites]
On February 15th, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ice) officers conducted a raid in Las Cruces, arresting people at a trailer park on the outskirts of town. The raid came a few weeks after President Trump signed two executive orders, signalling his plans to fulfill a campaign promise of cracking down on undocumented immigrants. Rumors spread that there were further raids planned, though none took place. On February 16th, a Thursday, Las Cruces’s public schools saw a sixty-per-cent spike in absences compared to the previous week—twenty-one hundred of the district’s twenty-five thousand students missed school. Two thousand students stayed away again the next day. Attendance returned to normal the following week, which made the two-day rash of absences all the more pronounced. “It was alarming,” Greg Ewing, the district’s superintendent, told me. News of the raid caused such fear in the community that Ewing wrote a letter to parents on the 16th, in English and Spanish, reassuring them that “we do not anticipate any ice activity occurring on school campuses.”This is horrifying.
posted by zachlipton at 3:05 PM on March 23, 2017 [50 favorites]
what the hell is he doing in that Truck photo
Buzzfeed: Trump Got To Sit In A Big Boy Truck Because Today Was A Special Day!
Vroom vroom vroom!
posted by Mister Fabulous at 3:08 PM on March 23, 2017 [20 favorites]
Buzzfeed: Trump Got To Sit In A Big Boy Truck Because Today Was A Special Day!
Vroom vroom vroom!
posted by Mister Fabulous at 3:08 PM on March 23, 2017 [20 favorites]
Christ, no. Let him play on heavy machinery all he wants
One should not operate heavy machinery under the influence of Trumpcare.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:08 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
One should not operate heavy machinery under the influence of Trumpcare.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:08 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
In a parliamentary system, this bill would fail, there’d be a snap election, and Chuck Schumer would become prime minister.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:09 PM on March 23, 2017 [46 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:09 PM on March 23, 2017 [46 favorites]
RNC paid intel firm [with ties to Russia] for Clinton dirt
posted by Freon at 3:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Freon at 3:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
If anyone needs a break from politics, how about some live footage from 5800m below sea level.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 3:15 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 3:15 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
I don't want to normalize the SOB, but I can't honestly day that Trump in a truck is any more ridiculous than Dukakis in a tank.
posted by mosk at 3:15 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mosk at 3:15 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
And no less ridiculous might be more to the point.
posted by spitbull at 3:18 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 3:18 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
The GSA has determined that Donald Trump is not in violation of his lease at the Old Post Office:
Wow, that is some righteous loophole bullshit there. The LLC is owned by Donald, Ivana, Uday and Qusay. Only Donald is affected. Income will continue to flow to the kids. No conflict of interest there! Ivanka doesn't have a real government job even though she's moved into a White House office.
But they aren't really stopping income to Donald. Instead of a cash distribution, Donald's share of profits will flow to his capital account. Your capital account represents your share of the business. The more money you put into your capital account, the bigger share of the business you own. It is like buying more shares of stock in your own company.
So while Donald will not get cash distributions while he is in office, he is increasing his share of the proceeds he will get if they sell the company after he gets out of office. So effectively, they are just temporarily putting his income share into a bank account that he can't access currently but which he can withdraw from later. No conflict, eh?
posted by JackFlash at 3:21 PM on March 23, 2017 [38 favorites]
Wow, that is some righteous loophole bullshit there. The LLC is owned by Donald, Ivana, Uday and Qusay. Only Donald is affected. Income will continue to flow to the kids. No conflict of interest there! Ivanka doesn't have a real government job even though she's moved into a White House office.
But they aren't really stopping income to Donald. Instead of a cash distribution, Donald's share of profits will flow to his capital account. Your capital account represents your share of the business. The more money you put into your capital account, the bigger share of the business you own. It is like buying more shares of stock in your own company.
So while Donald will not get cash distributions while he is in office, he is increasing his share of the proceeds he will get if they sell the company after he gets out of office. So effectively, they are just temporarily putting his income share into a bank account that he can't access currently but which he can withdraw from later. No conflict, eh?
posted by JackFlash at 3:21 PM on March 23, 2017 [38 favorites]
I reckon he thinks sitting in a truck is very manly
posted by angrybear at 3:22 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by angrybear at 3:22 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, for a start, because every day's delay saves some lives.
We're also, though, coming up to the point where insurance companies need to start making decisions about whether they're going to participate in ACA exchanges for plan year 2018.
Love them or hate them (and no one really loves them), they're an integral part of keeping the current system afloat. If insurance markets are destroyed because of all this ongoing, prolonged uncertainty, the Republicans will crow that Obamacare has failed; and I'm not confident that that message will get successfully combated.
This idea that repeal can work needs to die, and die quick, not get dragged out. But then, a lot of things need to happen that aren't happening.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:23 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
We're also, though, coming up to the point where insurance companies need to start making decisions about whether they're going to participate in ACA exchanges for plan year 2018.
Love them or hate them (and no one really loves them), they're an integral part of keeping the current system afloat. If insurance markets are destroyed because of all this ongoing, prolonged uncertainty, the Republicans will crow that Obamacare has failed; and I'm not confident that that message will get successfully combated.
This idea that repeal can work needs to die, and die quick, not get dragged out. But then, a lot of things need to happen that aren't happening.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:23 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
I reckon he thinks sitting in a truck is very manly
We know he doesn't use a computer, or read, but can Trump drive a car? The Secret Service won't let him now, but has Donald Trump operated a motor vehicle in the last 40 years?
posted by peeedro at 3:23 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
We know he doesn't use a computer, or read, but can Trump drive a car? The Secret Service won't let him now, but has Donald Trump operated a motor vehicle in the last 40 years?
posted by peeedro at 3:23 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Alex Baze (@bazecraze): Feels like we're getting close to Trump's white Bronco chase.
posted by mosk at 3:25 PM on March 23, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by mosk at 3:25 PM on March 23, 2017 [29 favorites]
Wow, that is some righteous loophole bullshit there.
Yeah, I knew they weren't going to enforce it. Because really, what was GSA going to do? He's the president. If they really tried to claim Trump was in breach, Trump-as-President would insist that the GSA renegotiate the contract with Trump-Organization, and strike that clause.
Once he was inaugurated, there was no way that contract wasn't going to be violated but good.
posted by suelac at 3:28 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, I knew they weren't going to enforce it. Because really, what was GSA going to do? He's the president. If they really tried to claim Trump was in breach, Trump-as-President would insist that the GSA renegotiate the contract with Trump-Organization, and strike that clause.
Once he was inaugurated, there was no way that contract wasn't going to be violated but good.
posted by suelac at 3:28 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Instead of a cash distribution, Donald's share of profits will flow to his capital account.
Wow. How is this not a deemed distribution and contribution? There will be amounts reported on a K-1 still, right? He still gets to increase his basis in his membership interest, no? Like, what. the. fuck. He is a related person to these entities! This is ridiculous!
posted by melissasaurus at 3:32 PM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
Wow. How is this not a deemed distribution and contribution? There will be amounts reported on a K-1 still, right? He still gets to increase his basis in his membership interest, no? Like, what. the. fuck. He is a related person to these entities! This is ridiculous!
posted by melissasaurus at 3:32 PM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
The whip counts I'm watching are getting worse for passage, not better. What a dealmaker Trump is!
posted by Justinian at 3:35 PM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 3:35 PM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
>MCs have to buy plans from the Obamacare markets (or use a spouse's plan, etc). This has been true since the ACA went into effect.
>I know this sounds crazy, but has any Dem offered to just repeal that portion? I wonder how much that's driving this.
This isn't driving anything at all. They are still able to buy the equivalent gold plated plans from the same insurers as before. It's just that the procedure is slightly different, buying through the ACA website instead of the old website.
Something that isn't always clear. The plans you buy through the ACA are no different than before. They are the same insurance companies as always. And while you hear all the noise about high deductibles, that is because most people buy the cheapest plans, no more than they can afford. But anyone can also buy a gold plated, no deductible plan on the ACA exchange if you are willing to pay for it. And that is exactly what the members of congress are doing because they get a subsidy to pay 75% of the cost of the plan, the same as they had before the ACA under the FEHB.
So, no, the ACA isn't a personal issue for congress members. Members' use of the ACA means virtually no difference in their health insurance coverage or cost. It is purely a symbolic change.
posted by JackFlash at 3:36 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
>I know this sounds crazy, but has any Dem offered to just repeal that portion? I wonder how much that's driving this.
This isn't driving anything at all. They are still able to buy the equivalent gold plated plans from the same insurers as before. It's just that the procedure is slightly different, buying through the ACA website instead of the old website.
Something that isn't always clear. The plans you buy through the ACA are no different than before. They are the same insurance companies as always. And while you hear all the noise about high deductibles, that is because most people buy the cheapest plans, no more than they can afford. But anyone can also buy a gold plated, no deductible plan on the ACA exchange if you are willing to pay for it. And that is exactly what the members of congress are doing because they get a subsidy to pay 75% of the cost of the plan, the same as they had before the ACA under the FEHB.
So, no, the ACA isn't a personal issue for congress members. Members' use of the ACA means virtually no difference in their health insurance coverage or cost. It is purely a symbolic change.
posted by JackFlash at 3:36 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
“The bombshell revelation that U.S. officials have information that suggests Trump associates may have colluded with the Russians means we must pause the entire Trump agenda. We may have an illegitimate President of the United States currently occupying the White House.”
-Congressman Ted Lieu (D) press release today.
Please flag/delete if double
posted by yoga at 3:40 PM on March 23, 2017 [103 favorites]
-Congressman Ted Lieu (D) press release today.
Please flag/delete if double
posted by yoga at 3:40 PM on March 23, 2017 [103 favorites]
How is this not a deemed distribution and contribution?
Good question. Maybe it is but the GAO doesn't care as long as he doesn't withdraw it while in office. It says that the contributions can only be used to support and enhance the hotel. It doesn't say they actually have to spend them.
posted by JackFlash at 3:47 PM on March 23, 2017
Good question. Maybe it is but the GAO doesn't care as long as he doesn't withdraw it while in office. It says that the contributions can only be used to support and enhance the hotel. It doesn't say they actually have to spend them.
posted by JackFlash at 3:47 PM on March 23, 2017
Comrade Trumpski drives a truck through what he doesn't know about ......
posted by effluvia at 3:50 PM on March 23, 2017
posted by effluvia at 3:50 PM on March 23, 2017
he's a drug store truck driving man
he's the head of the ku klux klan ...
posted by pyramid termite at 3:54 PM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
he's the head of the ku klux klan ...
posted by pyramid termite at 3:54 PM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
"We may have an illegitimate President of the United States currently occupying the White House."
That's it, I'm gonna go buy a scratch off ticket.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:54 PM on March 23, 2017 [61 favorites]
That's it, I'm gonna go buy a scratch off ticket.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:54 PM on March 23, 2017 [61 favorites]
He sure rushed to hold a press conference though.
And the media sure rushed to report it.
Too late for clarification; this is now an official Alternative Fact.
posted by saturday_morning at 3:58 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
And the media sure rushed to report it.
Too late for clarification; this is now an official Alternative Fact.
posted by saturday_morning at 3:58 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Before and after buying a Squatty Potty
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:00 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:00 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
We know he doesn't use a computer, or read, but can Trump drive a car? The Secret Service won't let him now, but has Donald Trump operated a motor vehicle in the last 40 years?
He has a collection of rare, expensive cars because of course. Haven't found any evidence of him driving any of them so far. There's several well-publicized pictures of him posing in the driver's seat of cars for promotional purposes but the cars all appear to be stationary. He definitely can drive a golf cart however; there's lots of pictures of him doing that. I'd say probably he can but because he rarely does he's not very good at it.
posted by scalefree at 4:08 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
He has a collection of rare, expensive cars because of course. Haven't found any evidence of him driving any of them so far. There's several well-publicized pictures of him posing in the driver's seat of cars for promotional purposes but the cars all appear to be stationary. He definitely can drive a golf cart however; there's lots of pictures of him doing that. I'd say probably he can but because he rarely does he's not very good at it.
posted by scalefree at 4:08 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'd say probably he can but because he rarely does he's not very good at it.
This is probably right. To speculate further, I'd say that because he's not very good at it, he rarely does. Narcissism, you know.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 4:11 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is probably right. To speculate further, I'd say that because he's not very good at it, he rarely does. Narcissism, you know.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 4:11 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Congressional update: tonight the Freedom Caucus (reps opposed to the bill because it provides too much healthcare) is going to meet directly with the Tuesday Group (moderate reps, many of whom are opposed to the bill because it provides too little heathcare). I don't really know what that's going to achieve, but I guess they can just stare at each other.
Of course, this is weird, because why are two opposing factions trying to hash this out amongst themselves? Isn't that a repudiation of leadership? So now they're claiming essentially "don't worry,this meeting isn't for negotiating." Maybe they're just all getting together to play bridge.
Meanwhile, Rep. Yoho, who is a real yoho who thinks defaulting on the national debt would be a good thing, says that Ryan and Trump are saying that the essential health benefits are now "off the table," whatever that means.
posted by zachlipton at 4:11 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Of course, this is weird, because why are two opposing factions trying to hash this out amongst themselves? Isn't that a repudiation of leadership? So now they're claiming essentially "don't worry,this meeting isn't for negotiating." Maybe they're just all getting together to play bridge.
Meanwhile, Rep. Yoho, who is a real yoho who thinks defaulting on the national debt would be a good thing, says that Ryan and Trump are saying that the essential health benefits are now "off the table," whatever that means.
posted by zachlipton at 4:11 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Buzzfeed: Trump Got To Sit In A Big Boy Truck Because Today Was A Special Day!
What if Donald is in a bodyswap movie and is trapped inside Barron and Barron is trapped inside Donald? It would explain so much!
posted by srboisvert at 4:12 PM on March 23, 2017 [29 favorites]
What if Donald is in a bodyswap movie and is trapped inside Barron and Barron is trapped inside Donald? It would explain so much!
posted by srboisvert at 4:12 PM on March 23, 2017 [29 favorites]
Can someone explain to me why I should be at all happy that the vote has been delayed?
Because Ryan doesn't have the votes.
posted by corb at 4:16 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Because Ryan doesn't have the votes.
posted by corb at 4:16 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Hello MeFites,
I need some help - you can send me a MeMail message if you have suggestions. I am preparing for tomorrow's demonstration against Paul Ryan here in Chicago at the $50,000.00 a plate fundraising dinner. Has anyone kept a list or know where there is an online list of the major articles on the Russian connections to #45, his campaign, campaign personnel, nominee's and family? I remember several of the articles, but want to make sure to include as many as are possible and relevant. I am making a one page flier and on one side I want to list relevant articles, on the other I want a simple sign about it that demonstrators can hold up if they wish to. I would also like to pass out the list of articles to any news crews that are there.
Thank you in advance!
posted by W Grant at 4:17 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
I need some help - you can send me a MeMail message if you have suggestions. I am preparing for tomorrow's demonstration against Paul Ryan here in Chicago at the $50,000.00 a plate fundraising dinner. Has anyone kept a list or know where there is an online list of the major articles on the Russian connections to #45, his campaign, campaign personnel, nominee's and family? I remember several of the articles, but want to make sure to include as many as are possible and relevant. I am making a one page flier and on one side I want to list relevant articles, on the other I want a simple sign about it that demonstrators can hold up if they wish to. I would also like to pass out the list of articles to any news crews that are there.
Thank you in advance!
posted by W Grant at 4:17 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
Can we seriously get Ted Lieu to run for senator and replace Diane Feinstein? He's been crushing it since Trump won the election.
I like to imagine that the Republicans factions meeting tonight will look like this, but that's probably just wishful thinking.
posted by supercrayon at 4:21 PM on March 23, 2017 [22 favorites]
I like to imagine that the Republicans factions meeting tonight will look like this, but that's probably just wishful thinking.
posted by supercrayon at 4:21 PM on March 23, 2017 [22 favorites]
I'm stuck on the idea that women on Medicaid are supposed to be working 8 weeks after delivery. Let's say you had a Caesarean section. That's 4 or 5 days in the hospital and then at least 2 weeks at home shuffling around in your slippers and sleeping whenever the baby sleeps and basically recovering from major abdominal surgery while trying to feed yourself and the newborn. So now you've got 4 or 5 weeks to find yourself a job but it takes all your physical and mental powers to keep yourself clean, and the baby alive while you deal with major sleep deprivation. I can just imagine the job interviews! Not to mention you're going to need someone very trustworthy to mind your 6 week old. I'm not even going to try to imagine what happens if you have other children.
I guess you should have thought about all that before you had sex. Or rather, I should say, before you were born female.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:22 PM on March 23, 2017 [68 favorites]
I guess you should have thought about all that before you had sex. Or rather, I should say, before you were born female.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:22 PM on March 23, 2017 [68 favorites]
What if Donald is in a bodyswap movie and is trapped inside Barron and Barron is trapped inside Donald? It would explain so much!
That potential movie sounds a lot cuter than the one we're living in.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:22 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
That potential movie sounds a lot cuter than the one we're living in.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:22 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm stuck on the idea that women on Medicaid are supposed to be working 8 weeks after delivery.
When my twins were born, I had been at my job less that a year, and my wife was unable to start her new job due to pregnancy complications. I was ineligible for FMLA, and had only two weeks of leave (my accrued sick leave and vacation) available to me. I could have taken unpaid leave, but then I would have lost the only health insurance our family had at the time (or I could have paid the entirety of the monthly premium out of pocket while drawing no salary). I basically had to take one week off after the birth and one week off later when the twins came home from the ICU. With premie twins who have feeding issues, both parents have to get up for each feed overnight, so I was basically working while operating on maybe 4.5 hours of sleep taken in 60 to 90 minute chunks.
It's not sustainable, and women shouldn't be forced to choose between maternity leave and Medicaid.
posted by Existential Dread at 4:28 PM on March 23, 2017 [37 favorites]
When my twins were born, I had been at my job less that a year, and my wife was unable to start her new job due to pregnancy complications. I was ineligible for FMLA, and had only two weeks of leave (my accrued sick leave and vacation) available to me. I could have taken unpaid leave, but then I would have lost the only health insurance our family had at the time (or I could have paid the entirety of the monthly premium out of pocket while drawing no salary). I basically had to take one week off after the birth and one week off later when the twins came home from the ICU. With premie twins who have feeding issues, both parents have to get up for each feed overnight, so I was basically working while operating on maybe 4.5 hours of sleep taken in 60 to 90 minute chunks.
It's not sustainable, and women shouldn't be forced to choose between maternity leave and Medicaid.
posted by Existential Dread at 4:28 PM on March 23, 2017 [37 favorites]
>What if Donald is in a bodyswap movie and is trapped inside Barron and Barron is trapped inside Donald? It would explain so much!
I read 'Barron' as 'Bannon' and couldn't figure out why it would explain anything.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:30 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
I read 'Barron' as 'Bannon' and couldn't figure out why it would explain anything.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:30 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Well, 8 weeks is the current standard for maternity leave at companies that have that benefit (it's what I took). HOWEVER, this proposal is still monstrous. What if the baby has complications or special needs? What if you have complications? What if you're unable to afford the very very pricey newborn daycare, if there's even a center near you that offers it? What if the only work you can get is nights (surprise! You can't get child care at 3 a.m.) or unpredictable shifts (again, childcare centers assume a regular 9-5 schedule)? These are all things that working mothers of greater means also have to calculate and make decisions around, and a not insignificant number do decide that it is not possible to return to work. This is a personal decision with a squillion variables. But I guess poor people aren't people so fuck 'em.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:33 PM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:33 PM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
So in the list of 10 essential healthcare benefits that they are talking about scrapping, one is doctor visits. I'm curious as to what is the point of having insurance if it doesn't cover anything. Is it just catastrophic coverage? Like for example you pay for everything until you hit $10,000 and then the insurance kicks in? Because I've had some crappy plans with high deductibles but I've never heard of a health insurance plan that doesn't pay at least partially on a visit to the doctor's office.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:36 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:36 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm curious as to what is the point of having insurance if it doesn't cover anything.
Health Care executives need that third home. What are you, a communist?
posted by Justinian at 4:37 PM on March 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
Health Care executives need that third home. What are you, a communist?
posted by Justinian at 4:37 PM on March 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
>What if Donald is in a bodyswap movie and is trapped inside Barron and Barron is trapped inside Donald? It would explain so much!
Title: Bigly!
Tag line: "Be careful what you wish for!"
posted by mosk at 4:41 PM on March 23, 2017 [22 favorites]
Title: Bigly!
Tag line: "Be careful what you wish for!"
posted by mosk at 4:41 PM on March 23, 2017 [22 favorites]
NYT: Trump Administration Orders Tougher Screening of Visa Applicants. New instructions to consulates to apply more scrutiny, examine applicants' social media profiles if they've ever been in "in territory controlled by the Islamic State." This is going to make it even harder for people to visit the US.
Meanwhile, in Congress: the entire House Republican caucus is meeting now. Mulvaney reportedly says that Trump is done, negotiations are over. He wants a vote tomorrow and if it goes down, he'll move onto something else and leave the ACA in place.
posted by zachlipton at 4:41 PM on March 23, 2017 [26 favorites]
Meanwhile, in Congress: the entire House Republican caucus is meeting now. Mulvaney reportedly says that Trump is done, negotiations are over. He wants a vote tomorrow and if it goes down, he'll move onto something else and leave the ACA in place.
posted by zachlipton at 4:41 PM on March 23, 2017 [26 favorites]
Actually, I just looked it up, and IMDB says Big's official tagline was, "Have you ever had a really big secret?"
Which is a bit too on the nose.
posted by mosk at 4:44 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Which is a bit too on the nose.
posted by mosk at 4:44 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
What if Donald is in a bodyswap movie and is trapped inside Barron and Barron is trapped inside Donald? It would explain so much!
Barron: The Racistist Little President
posted by downtohisturtles at 4:45 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Barron: The Racistist Little President
posted by downtohisturtles at 4:45 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
W Grant, you might want to take your plea for help over to AskMe.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:45 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:45 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
his wife is particularly fond of their toothpaste
dafuq?
It has no mind-controlling fluoride
good for precious bodily fluids
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:51 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
dafuq?
It has no mind-controlling fluoride
good for precious bodily fluids
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:51 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
@ShakingStick:
I like big trucks and I cannot lie.posted by kirkaracha at 4:51 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
You other POTUS can't deny
Soren_lorensen, I was thinking about a woman who didn't already have a job (like perhaps she lost her job because she got pregnant) and how hard it would be to be actively looking for a job while nursing and getting almost no sleep.
But let's say you do have a job and planned to get right back to it once the baby came. Since you are on Medicaid that means that the job is probably low wage--meaning possibly inflexible hours and possibly manual labor. For example, grocery clerk. If you have a c-section, you won't be lifting anything heavier than the baby for several months and you will probably have trouble standing for long periods of time.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:51 PM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
But let's say you do have a job and planned to get right back to it once the baby came. Since you are on Medicaid that means that the job is probably low wage--meaning possibly inflexible hours and possibly manual labor. For example, grocery clerk. If you have a c-section, you won't be lifting anything heavier than the baby for several months and you will probably have trouble standing for long periods of time.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:51 PM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
Grab them by the Peterbilt. You can do anything.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:53 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 4:53 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile, in Congress: the entire House Republican caucus is meeting now. Mulvaney reportedly says that Trump is done, negotiations are over. He wants a vote tomorrow and if it goes down, he'll move onto something else and leave the ACA in place.
Low Energy. SAD!
posted by leotrotsky at 4:54 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Low Energy. SAD!
posted by leotrotsky at 4:54 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Meanwhile, in Congress: the entire House Republican caucus is meeting now. Mulvaney reportedly says that Trump is done, negotiations are over. He wants a vote tomorrow and if it goes down, he'll move onto something else and leave the ACA in place.
Move on to what? What the hell is there to move on to after you can't do the main thing you were elected to do?
posted by sporkwort at 4:57 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Move on to what? What the hell is there to move on to after you can't do the main thing you were elected to do?
posted by sporkwort at 4:57 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
What the hell is there to move on to after you can't do the main thing you were elected to do?
To hear his rally crowds tell it, he was mainly elected to Lock Her Up.
posted by dragstroke at 4:59 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
To hear his rally crowds tell it, he was mainly elected to Lock Her Up.
posted by dragstroke at 4:59 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around an ethos that says:
We're not paying for your birth control.
If you do get pregnant don't even think about getting an abortion.
Once the baby comes you need to find someone very cheap to watch the baby while you get back to work.
What do you mean child care is too expensive and you can't afford it? That's something you should have thought about before you got pregnant.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:00 PM on March 23, 2017 [46 favorites]
We're not paying for your birth control.
If you do get pregnant don't even think about getting an abortion.
Once the baby comes you need to find someone very cheap to watch the baby while you get back to work.
What do you mean child care is too expensive and you can't afford it? That's something you should have thought about before you got pregnant.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:00 PM on March 23, 2017 [46 favorites]
For those who want to watch whatever statements these clowns are going to make after their meeting, whenever that is... CSPAN has live video of their "House GOP Stakeout".
posted by jammer at 5:01 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by jammer at 5:01 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Presumably, move on to a different plan to cut taxes for rich people.
posted by zachlipton at 5:02 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 5:02 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile, in Congress: the entire House Republican caucus is meeting now. Mulvaney reportedly says that Trump is done, negotiations are over. He wants a vote tomorrow and if it goes down, he'll move onto something else and leave the ACA in place.
I'm okay with this.
posted by ocschwar at 5:02 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Or nuclear war. Both are really quite conceivable, honestly.
posted by zachlipton at 5:02 PM on March 23, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 5:02 PM on March 23, 2017
Grab them by the Peterbilt.
There was no Peterbilt there today, just a Mack and a Volvo. Mack is a subsidiary of Volvo.
So today was a grab 'em by the Volvo day.
posted by peeedro at 5:02 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
There was no Peterbilt there today, just a Mack and a Volvo. Mack is a subsidiary of Volvo.
So today was a grab 'em by the Volvo day.
posted by peeedro at 5:02 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
What the hell is there to move on to after you can't do the main thing you were elected to do?
Maybe "No" Republicans start getting mysterious threatening phone calls in the middle of the night by someone with a bad Russian accent who sounds suspiciously like Donald Trump.
posted by Dr. Zira at 5:03 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Maybe "No" Republicans start getting mysterious threatening phone calls in the middle of the night by someone with a bad Russian accent who sounds suspiciously like Donald Trump.
posted by Dr. Zira at 5:03 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
What the hell is there to move on to after you can't do the main thing you were elected to do?
Obviously, this will leave him more time to rail against the Democrats in his reelection bid. I mean, none of the Democrats lifted a finger to help the R's get this legislation passed. And the R's obviously needed the help, as they could not close a deal amongst themselves despite holding a majority in the House. Sad.
posted by mosk at 5:03 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Obviously, this will leave him more time to rail against the Democrats in his reelection bid. I mean, none of the Democrats lifted a finger to help the R's get this legislation passed. And the R's obviously needed the help, as they could not close a deal amongst themselves despite holding a majority in the House. Sad.
posted by mosk at 5:03 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Move on to what? What the hell is there to move on to after you can't do the main thing you were elected to do?
Massive tax cuts. It's what the people he represents elected him for.
posted by scalefree at 5:03 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Massive tax cuts. It's what the people he represents elected him for.
posted by scalefree at 5:03 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
What the hell is there to move on to after you can't do the main thing you were elected to do?
Dude, tomorrow is Friday. Half day, quick flight to Palm Beach, round of golf, then chill with his "vodka-drinkin' buddies".
posted by Mister Fabulous at 5:04 PM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
Dude, tomorrow is Friday. Half day, quick flight to Palm Beach, round of golf, then chill with his "vodka-drinkin' buddies".
posted by Mister Fabulous at 5:04 PM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
As far as the members of Congress having to buy insurance via the ACA and that possibly motivating them, not only do I doubt it, but never forget that clause in the ACA was inserted at the insistence of Republicans who were stomping around shouting to the world that the evil dumbocrats were going to force **YOU** onto Evil Government Healthcare (boo, hiss, deathpanels!) while keeping Super Duper Double Secret Excellent Private Healthcare for themselves.
So the Democrats sighed, rolled their eyes, and put in the provision that Congress also had to buy via the ACA.
I don't think the Democrats offering to cut out a part of the bill they put in explicitly for the Republicans is going to make the Republicans reconsider things.
posted by sotonohito at 5:04 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
So the Democrats sighed, rolled their eyes, and put in the provision that Congress also had to buy via the ACA.
I don't think the Democrats offering to cut out a part of the bill they put in explicitly for the Republicans is going to make the Republicans reconsider things.
posted by sotonohito at 5:04 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Re: Trump and the truck, saw this referenced somewhere on Twitter and can't find it again, so leaving this here...
Be sure n' tell 'em that Large Marge sent ya!
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:04 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Be sure n' tell 'em that Large Marge sent ya!
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:04 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Move on to what? What the hell is there to move on to after you can't do the main thing you were elected to do?
He'll move on to not following through on all of the other campaign promises he made.
The cLoser.
posted by darkstar at 5:04 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Maybe "No" Republicans start getting mysterious threatening phone calls in the middle of the night by someone with a bad Russian accent who sounds suspiciously like Donald Trump.
"Yes. Is John Barron, uh, Barronovich. You make bad mistake. Bigly mistake."
posted by sporkwort at 5:07 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
"Yes. Is John Barron, uh, Barronovich. You make bad mistake. Bigly mistake."
posted by sporkwort at 5:07 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
So, uh, I wrote a song about the state of our union, if anyone is interested and/or wants a musical interlude.
posted by pxe2000 at 5:07 PM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 5:07 PM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
Can I draw a comparison for you guys, as if you didn't already know that our system in the United States is regressive to women and generally fucked?
If I get pregnant in New Zealand I get:
Free ante-natal care with a lead maternity carer (usually a midwife). This includes all the appointments, procedures, tests, etc.
If I need a prescription for anything this will be heavily subsidized and probably cost something in the nature of $5 per medication.
My actual birth and everything associated with that will be free. Everything. This includes specialist care, ambulance rides if that's a thing, surgery, hospital admission, etc. Even if it's an incredibly complex birth.
If something happens to my child during birth and they need hospitalization and specialist care, this will also be free.
If I want to stay at an after-birthcare place for a few days to get support and lactation education, that will be free.
I will get follow-up visits after birth from a nurse. For the first few appointments this will be at my home, at a time of my choosing. After that they may be at a local clinic. Free.
I am guaranteed by law 52 weeks of parental leave. 18 of these will be financially subsidized by the government. Thanks to my union, these 18 weeks will be at full pay.
My husband is also entitled to 4 weeks off. Thanks to his union this is also at full pay.
Keep in mind, this is not the best parental leave and benefits that exist globally. The OECD average is 17 weeks off, so NZ is only just above that. In Denmark, for example, I believe parents get 52 weeks of paid parental leave.
This is possible in the United States, which is an infinitely wealthier country than New Zealand. There just has to be the political will. However I don't see this happening while we have politicians who seem to think they were elected to actively harm their own constituents. I hope this changes in the future, I really do. We like to talk a big game in America about family values, but we clearly don't put our money where our mouth is.
posted by supercrayon at 5:07 PM on March 23, 2017 [72 favorites]
If I get pregnant in New Zealand I get:
Free ante-natal care with a lead maternity carer (usually a midwife). This includes all the appointments, procedures, tests, etc.
If I need a prescription for anything this will be heavily subsidized and probably cost something in the nature of $5 per medication.
My actual birth and everything associated with that will be free. Everything. This includes specialist care, ambulance rides if that's a thing, surgery, hospital admission, etc. Even if it's an incredibly complex birth.
If something happens to my child during birth and they need hospitalization and specialist care, this will also be free.
If I want to stay at an after-birthcare place for a few days to get support and lactation education, that will be free.
I will get follow-up visits after birth from a nurse. For the first few appointments this will be at my home, at a time of my choosing. After that they may be at a local clinic. Free.
I am guaranteed by law 52 weeks of parental leave. 18 of these will be financially subsidized by the government. Thanks to my union, these 18 weeks will be at full pay.
My husband is also entitled to 4 weeks off. Thanks to his union this is also at full pay.
Keep in mind, this is not the best parental leave and benefits that exist globally. The OECD average is 17 weeks off, so NZ is only just above that. In Denmark, for example, I believe parents get 52 weeks of paid parental leave.
This is possible in the United States, which is an infinitely wealthier country than New Zealand. There just has to be the political will. However I don't see this happening while we have politicians who seem to think they were elected to actively harm their own constituents. I hope this changes in the future, I really do. We like to talk a big game in America about family values, but we clearly don't put our money where our mouth is.
posted by supercrayon at 5:07 PM on March 23, 2017 [72 favorites]
Meanwhile, in Congress: the entire House Republican caucus is meeting now. Mulvaney reportedly says that Trump is done, negotiations are over. He wants a vote tomorrow and if it goes down, he'll move onto something else and leave the ACA in place.
I don't understand. What is Trump, through Mulvaney, trying to accomplish here? Is this like threatening to walk away from a used car salesman?
posted by rdr at 5:08 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
I don't understand. What is Trump, through Mulvaney, trying to accomplish here? Is this like threatening to walk away from a used car salesman?
posted by rdr at 5:08 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
The National Review wants credit for opposing the alt-right movement it helped create
"For years, National Review has advanced the ideas of Robert Weissberg, John Derbyshire, Peter Brimelow, its founder William Buckley, and others for whom universal human dignity was a debatable proposition. Its writers now cast about, looking in vain for the source of a movement they say deeply troubles them. 'We can cough politely and look away,' National Review’s Jay Nordlinger said of the alt-right in February. 'Or stare it square in the face.' If and when National Review does the latter—and if and when the conservative movement itself decides to do so—the face they will find staring back at them will be quite familiar."
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:11 PM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
"For years, National Review has advanced the ideas of Robert Weissberg, John Derbyshire, Peter Brimelow, its founder William Buckley, and others for whom universal human dignity was a debatable proposition. Its writers now cast about, looking in vain for the source of a movement they say deeply troubles them. 'We can cough politely and look away,' National Review’s Jay Nordlinger said of the alt-right in February. 'Or stare it square in the face.' If and when National Review does the latter—and if and when the conservative movement itself decides to do so—the face they will find staring back at them will be quite familiar."
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:11 PM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
rdr I think probably? I mean Trump's whole shtick is pretending that he's some sort of awesome hyper negotiator, so I guess that's what he's doing. I bet he thinks he's being very clever.
And I fear he might still win despite being a total dumbhead. You know the Republicans really are desperate to get something passed so they can say they fulfilled the repeal and replace promise, and it only takes a handful deciding to go for a win instead of ideological purity (however they define it) to get the votes to pass the current abomination (which contains what? at this point literally no one knows, they accused the Democrats of trying to pass a mystery bill, Trump's Mirror strikes again).
But yeah, I think Trump is trying the tough guy negotiating thing.
posted by sotonohito at 5:13 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
And I fear he might still win despite being a total dumbhead. You know the Republicans really are desperate to get something passed so they can say they fulfilled the repeal and replace promise, and it only takes a handful deciding to go for a win instead of ideological purity (however they define it) to get the votes to pass the current abomination (which contains what? at this point literally no one knows, they accused the Democrats of trying to pass a mystery bill, Trump's Mirror strikes again).
But yeah, I think Trump is trying the tough guy negotiating thing.
posted by sotonohito at 5:13 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
One of Trump's successful campaign strategies was to just absolutely shit on journalists nonstop, as his own unpopularity pales next to the unpopularity of journalism. (to demonstrate: every time I have mentioned this strategy IRL someone has interjected along the lines of "well it's not like they don't deserve it.")
I think he has enough dimensions of chess in him to realize a similar situation obtains with regard to Congress.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 5:13 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
I think he has enough dimensions of chess in him to realize a similar situation obtains with regard to Congress.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 5:13 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Probably half that, rdr, and half "I'd rather be golfing."
After all, and not many may realize this, but health care can be complicated.
posted by darkstar at 5:13 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
After all, and not many may realize this, but health care can be complicated.
posted by darkstar at 5:13 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I don't understand.
He wants to "repeal Obamacare," so he doesn't understand why there's any kind of difficulty doing that with a Republican majority. He doesn't care what's in the replacement bill, so why should they? They are obviously being difficult just to spite him and because they are not as smart as him, especially that Paul Ryan, who needs a little humbling.
He doesn't have any kind of patience or any kind of concept of sustained difficult labor and negotiation, so if he can't get what he wants in a timespan fitting his attention span, fuck it, shut it down, move the cameras on to something he can win, which is sure to be anything else since he is a winner and this is therefore a fluke by definition. and fake news.
(being donald trump is easy, it's a good thing it's not appealing at all or there would be many more of him.)
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
He wants to "repeal Obamacare," so he doesn't understand why there's any kind of difficulty doing that with a Republican majority. He doesn't care what's in the replacement bill, so why should they? They are obviously being difficult just to spite him and because they are not as smart as him, especially that Paul Ryan, who needs a little humbling.
He doesn't have any kind of patience or any kind of concept of sustained difficult labor and negotiation, so if he can't get what he wants in a timespan fitting his attention span, fuck it, shut it down, move the cameras on to something he can win, which is sure to be anything else since he is a winner and this is therefore a fluke by definition. and fake news.
(being donald trump is easy, it's a good thing it's not appealing at all or there would be many more of him.)
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
"For years, National Review has advanced the ideas of Robert Weissberg, John Derbyshire, Peter Brimelow, its founder William Buckley, and others for whom universal human dignity was a debatable proposition. Its writers now cast about, looking in vain for the source of a movement they say deeply troubles them. 'We can cough politely and look away,' National Review’s Jay Nordlinger said of the alt-right in February. 'Or stare it square in the face.' If and when National Review does the latter—and if and when the conservative movement itself decides to do so—the face they will find staring back at them will be quite familiar."
"We only said that black people shouldn't get more than white people not that black people weren't people."
posted by Talez at 5:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
"We only said that black people shouldn't get more than white people not that black people weren't people."
posted by Talez at 5:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
^^^ That's it exactly, rdr. He's "dealing" - 'doing the slow walk,' as my dad would say. But political capital isn't cash, this is a shitty bill being pulled in two horrible (but different!) directions, and he's in over his head. I guess he feels he can talk up his side satisfactorily even if he doesn't get a bill to sign, which is absurd, but here we are.
posted by mosk at 5:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mosk at 5:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Totally dominance politics; take it or leave it. And if you don't vote my way, I'm taking my ball and going home.
posted by chris24 at 5:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 5:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I miss her emails.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:16 PM on March 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 5:16 PM on March 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
Chris Collins says the final set of amendments will: repeal the essential health benefits (unclear if this is just the EHB list or also includes stuff like annual and lifetime benefit caps, which are in the same section of the ACA), keep the Medicare surtax for 6 more years (rich people have to wait for more tax cut, sad!), and toss $15 billion more in the stability fund.
He says: "It's loud and clear tonight this will be a one-gun, up or done, if it's down we're done."
Repealing the EHBs will completely mess with the CBO score (the CBO won't score people as "insured" unless they have insurance that actually covers more than band-aids), but they'll just go ahead and vote without it. Depending on the exact legislative language of what they include in that, it pretty much blows up the notion of "insurance." It's easy to imagine a system in which insurers technically have to cover pre-existing conditions, but they can insist on only selling you a useless plan that doesn't cover hospitalization or drugs or something. This isn't an academic issue: before the ACA it was literally impossible to purchase an individual plan in Colorado that covered maternity for a 34-year-old woman, at any price. "Freedom" to pick the plan you need, indeed. We could easily be going back to that.
posted by zachlipton at 5:16 PM on March 23, 2017 [26 favorites]
He says: "It's loud and clear tonight this will be a one-gun, up or done, if it's down we're done."
Repealing the EHBs will completely mess with the CBO score (the CBO won't score people as "insured" unless they have insurance that actually covers more than band-aids), but they'll just go ahead and vote without it. Depending on the exact legislative language of what they include in that, it pretty much blows up the notion of "insurance." It's easy to imagine a system in which insurers technically have to cover pre-existing conditions, but they can insist on only selling you a useless plan that doesn't cover hospitalization or drugs or something. This isn't an academic issue: before the ACA it was literally impossible to purchase an individual plan in Colorado that covered maternity for a 34-year-old woman, at any price. "Freedom" to pick the plan you need, indeed. We could easily be going back to that.
posted by zachlipton at 5:16 PM on March 23, 2017 [26 favorites]
Is Trump going to accomplish literally anything in his first 100 days?
posted by Justinian at 5:17 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 5:17 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
If the Republicans thought they had it hard enough fending off primary challenges from the right, they're going to get that plus Trump sticking his big dumb nose in their races in 2018 as revenge for making him look bad here. He's been threatening Ryan with that since before the election. Go long on popcorn futures!
posted by jason_steakums at 5:19 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 5:19 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
He still has access to the nuclear football
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:19 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:19 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Is Trump going to accomplish literally anything in his first 100 days?
"No" would be a good answer, but also, "who knew getting legislation passed was this hard?"
posted by mosk at 5:19 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
"No" would be a good answer, but also, "who knew getting legislation passed was this hard?"
posted by mosk at 5:19 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Is Trump going to accomplish literally anything in his first 100 days?
Fucking DAPL happened.
posted by cmfletcher at 5:21 PM on March 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
Fucking DAPL happened.
posted by cmfletcher at 5:21 PM on March 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
if only individuals could invent plans the way insurance companies do. because I have a great compromise in mind, where I buy a plan that covers maternity, preventative care, all specialist appointments, all inpatient and outpatient treatment, and end-of-life care. But -- here's the great part that insurance companies will love -- only if I need them. If I don't get cancer and don't die (and what are the odds of that, I'm not even forty yet) my estimated five dollars a month in premiums goes into their coffers and they get to keep it forever! Pure profit for them.
what a great idea, right? that's how health care logic works, apparently. and I guess I like would like it if it were done with my welfare in mind and not theirs.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:22 PM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
what a great idea, right? that's how health care logic works, apparently. and I guess I like would like it if it were done with my welfare in mind and not theirs.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:22 PM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around an ethos that says:
We're not paying for your birth control.
If you do get pregnant don't even think about getting an abortion.
Once the baby comes you need to find someone very cheap to watch the baby while you get back to work.
What do you mean child care is too expensive and you can't afford it? That's something you should have thought about before you got pregnant.
the ethos is "lay back and submit to the patriarchy and a man we approve of"
posted by pyramid termite at 5:22 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
We're not paying for your birth control.
If you do get pregnant don't even think about getting an abortion.
Once the baby comes you need to find someone very cheap to watch the baby while you get back to work.
What do you mean child care is too expensive and you can't afford it? That's something you should have thought about before you got pregnant.
the ethos is "lay back and submit to the patriarchy and a man we approve of"
posted by pyramid termite at 5:22 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
I don't want to normalize the SOB, but I can't honestly day that Trump in a truck is any more ridiculous than Dukakis in a tank.
Perhaps, but one difference is that Dukakis actually served in the army (in fact, he enlisted and put off Harvard), while Trump is not known for his early days as a long-haul trucker.
posted by adamg at 5:26 PM on March 23, 2017 [33 favorites]
Perhaps, but one difference is that Dukakis actually served in the army (in fact, he enlisted and put off Harvard), while Trump is not known for his early days as a long-haul trucker.
posted by adamg at 5:26 PM on March 23, 2017 [33 favorites]
Is Trump going to accomplish literally anything in his first 100 days?
Fucking DAPL happened.
Anything good?
posted by ZeusHumms at 5:28 PM on March 23, 2017
Fucking DAPL happened.
Anything good?
posted by ZeusHumms at 5:28 PM on March 23, 2017
So yesterday Ranking Dem on the House Intelligence Committee Schiff said he'd seen more than circumstantial evidence of Trump/Russia collusion.
And today, add two more:
Now two members of House Intel Cmte have told me they've seen "more than circumstantial" evidence of collusion btwn Trump Associates/Russia
posted by chris24 at 5:31 PM on March 23, 2017 [39 favorites]
And today, add two more:
Now two members of House Intel Cmte have told me they've seen "more than circumstantial" evidence of collusion btwn Trump Associates/Russia
posted by chris24 at 5:31 PM on March 23, 2017 [39 favorites]
Mulvaney reportedly says that Trump is done, negotiations are over. He wants a vote tomorrow and if it goes down, he'll move onto something else and leave the ACA in place.
I'm hoping that he pulls the same shit with the Wall. If Congress doesn't vote to give him his 20 billion, he gives up after a one hour closed session talk and says he is done making deals.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:35 PM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'm hoping that he pulls the same shit with the Wall. If Congress doesn't vote to give him his 20 billion, he gives up after a one hour closed session talk and says he is done making deals.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:35 PM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
As glad as I am that things are going so horribly for little Donnie, I'm also terrified at what a going down with the ship president trump looks like. So stay sharp.
posted by Glibpaxman at 5:36 PM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Glibpaxman at 5:36 PM on March 23, 2017 [15 favorites]
Secret Life of Gravy I think the ethos you describe basically boils down to pure, unadulterated, patriarchy. They want to break women financially so that women will have to pair up with men to survive.
They think women and men basically don't like each other, that men only want women for sex (which women hate) and women only want men for validation and commitment (which men hate), and that therefore the only way to secure the future of white people is to force men and women into marriage.
They **WANT** women being pressured into "putting out" so they get pregnant at a young age leading to shotgun weddings followed by a hate filled loveless marriage. To them that's the natural order of things and the only way for White America to survive.
Getting there requires that you make it impossible for women to survive as financially independent people, so they like anything that makes pregnancy and work impossible to manage together.
posted by sotonohito at 5:38 PM on March 23, 2017 [37 favorites]
They think women and men basically don't like each other, that men only want women for sex (which women hate) and women only want men for validation and commitment (which men hate), and that therefore the only way to secure the future of white people is to force men and women into marriage.
They **WANT** women being pressured into "putting out" so they get pregnant at a young age leading to shotgun weddings followed by a hate filled loveless marriage. To them that's the natural order of things and the only way for White America to survive.
Getting there requires that you make it impossible for women to survive as financially independent people, so they like anything that makes pregnancy and work impossible to manage together.
posted by sotonohito at 5:38 PM on March 23, 2017 [37 favorites]
Are Koch brothers still offering campaign money to republicans who vote no on AHCA?
posted by birdheist at 5:39 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by birdheist at 5:39 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Captain Trump would be the first one off the ship. Like, before the passengers even knew something was wrong.
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:39 PM on March 23, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:39 PM on March 23, 2017 [30 favorites]
'We can cough politely and look away,' National Review’s Jay Nordlinger said of the alt-right in February. 'Or stare it square in the face.'
Whereupon they will find it looks much like the face of National Review founder William F. Buckley, who once wrote that the "White community" in the South was "entitled to take such measures as are necessary to prevail, politically and culturally, in areas in which it does not predominate numerically" because, "for the time being, it is the advanced race."
The editors of the National Review will protest. "What you must understand is that Bill Buckley was a great big thinky-head nerd who never would have—"
But they will be interrupted by this quote from Mr. Buckley:
posted by compartment at 5:40 PM on March 23, 2017 [26 favorites]
Whereupon they will find it looks much like the face of National Review founder William F. Buckley, who once wrote that the "White community" in the South was "entitled to take such measures as are necessary to prevail, politically and culturally, in areas in which it does not predominate numerically" because, "for the time being, it is the advanced race."
The editors of the National Review will protest. "What you must understand is that Bill Buckley was a great big thinky-head nerd who never would have—"
But they will be interrupted by this quote from Mr. Buckley:
"Sometimes it becomes impossible to assert the will of a minority, in which case it must give way, and the society will regress; sometimes the numerical minority cannot prevail except by violence: then it [i.e., the white minority] must determine whether the prevalence of its will is worth the terrible price of violence."If William Buckley is not a grandfather of the alt-right, he is, at best, a major-league stinker.
posted by compartment at 5:40 PM on March 23, 2017 [26 favorites]
I miss her emails.
Actually, I take that back. The emails were a garbage scandal that made me angry because we wasted time obsessing over it. Right now, thank God, we get to obsess over things that are legitimately concerning.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:42 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Actually, I take that back. The emails were a garbage scandal that made me angry because we wasted time obsessing over it. Right now, thank God, we get to obsess over things that are legitimately concerning.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:42 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Politico Delayed vote a setback for Trump the dealmaker
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:43 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Most of Trump’s senior team, including Vice President Mike Pence, Health and Human Service Secretary Tom Price, Office of Management and Budget Director Mick Mulvaney, chief of staff Reince Priebus, chief strategist Steve Bannon and counselor Kellyanne Conway attended the Freedom Caucus negotiating session. Absent from the proceedings was senior adviser Jared Kushner, who’s vacationing with his wife, Ivanka Trump, and their children in Aspen, Colorado [my bold].How long has it been since these two had a vacation?! My god they must be haggard with fatigue!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:43 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Hahahahaah
Scratcher was a $25 winner
WHY DIDNT I BUY TWO
(I shall spend it on fancy wine when I actually get to go out for my birthday. Universe, if you are keeping track, big winners will go mostly to the resistance effort. Just so that's clear.)
posted by schadenfrau at 5:44 PM on March 23, 2017 [87 favorites]
Scratcher was a $25 winner
WHY DIDNT I BUY TWO
(I shall spend it on fancy wine when I actually get to go out for my birthday. Universe, if you are keeping track, big winners will go mostly to the resistance effort. Just so that's clear.)
posted by schadenfrau at 5:44 PM on March 23, 2017 [87 favorites]
House GOP meeting is over. Paul Ryan just announced that they're doing an up or down vote tomorrow.
posted by zrail at 5:44 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zrail at 5:44 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Is Trump going to accomplish literally anything in his first 100 days?
Destabilizing the post-WW2 world order, permanently destroying american trust in institutions, and finally toppling the rickety and rotting 150 year old jenga tower of a unified american cultural identity in just 60-odd days? No small feat in my book.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:44 PM on March 23, 2017 [40 favorites]
Destabilizing the post-WW2 world order, permanently destroying american trust in institutions, and finally toppling the rickety and rotting 150 year old jenga tower of a unified american cultural identity in just 60-odd days? No small feat in my book.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:44 PM on March 23, 2017 [40 favorites]
Mulvaney reportedly says that Trump is done, negotiations are over. He wants a vote tomorrow and if it goes down, he'll move onto something else and leave the ACA in place.
What does this even mean? Has he brought literally anything to the table? Today he played with his trucks in the sand box. Before that he was golfing. He has no fucking clue what is even in the bill, or what any of it does, or what "his" plan is. If they don't vote tomorrow he does...what? Tweets at them? He won't sign the bill? Does he know this is only half of the Congress and there's a whole new set of legislative challenges which are probably even tougher to overcome in the Senate?
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:46 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
What does this even mean? Has he brought literally anything to the table? Today he played with his trucks in the sand box. Before that he was golfing. He has no fucking clue what is even in the bill, or what any of it does, or what "his" plan is. If they don't vote tomorrow he does...what? Tweets at them? He won't sign the bill? Does he know this is only half of the Congress and there's a whole new set of legislative challenges which are probably even tougher to overcome in the Senate?
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:46 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
They want to break women financially so that women will have to pair up with men to survive.
yeah, there's a long rhetorical history of Republicans explicitly and indignantly despising welfare for women, particularly women with children, because it performs the functions of a husband. they say. they mean keeping a woman from starving and dying: the husband's function. and they mean it is degrading for the government to be forced into a de facto marriage with such worthless women. and they also mean it is a great shame for women to take advantage by getting the government to perform the husbandly duties of support without in turn demanding the wifely duties of submission and sexual performance.
I want to say Newt Gingrich and Ann Coulter are the big names I remember pushing this ideology but it's really pretty much all welfare/food-stamp/Medicaid-hating Republicans. all of the above is stuff I have actually read and heard, not imagined.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:46 PM on March 23, 2017 [51 favorites]
yeah, there's a long rhetorical history of Republicans explicitly and indignantly despising welfare for women, particularly women with children, because it performs the functions of a husband. they say. they mean keeping a woman from starving and dying: the husband's function. and they mean it is degrading for the government to be forced into a de facto marriage with such worthless women. and they also mean it is a great shame for women to take advantage by getting the government to perform the husbandly duties of support without in turn demanding the wifely duties of submission and sexual performance.
I want to say Newt Gingrich and Ann Coulter are the big names I remember pushing this ideology but it's really pretty much all welfare/food-stamp/Medicaid-hating Republicans. all of the above is stuff I have actually read and heard, not imagined.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:46 PM on March 23, 2017 [51 favorites]
CNN Schiff: New evidence shows possible Trump-Russia collusion
The top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee is claiming that he has been presented with new information on collusion between associates of President Donald Trump and Russia that would merit a grand jury investigation.Asked to explain his comments earlier in the week when he said there was more than just "circumstantial evidence of collusion," [...]Schiff said, "I do think that it's appropriate to say that it's the kind of evidence that you would submit to a grand jury at the beginning of an investigation.posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:48 PM on March 23, 2017 [32 favorites]
Wow. Ryan just came to the cameras, and said, roughly, "For 7 and a half years we have been saying we need to replace this broken law, and tomorrow we are proceeding.", then walked off. Ignored repeated calls of "do you have the votes?".
That was... brief.
posted by jammer at 5:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
That was... brief.
posted by jammer at 5:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
Meanwhile, in case you need proof James Comey's FBI can rise above petty rivalries, the bureau today returned Tom Brady's stolen jerseys (the one we knew about and the other one we didn't know about) to the Patriots. The FBI's Boston office notes this involved cooperation among three FBI field offices, the FBI legal attache in Mexico City, US attorneys in three states, Massachusetts State Police, the Houston Police Department and the Mexican federal attorney general.
posted by adamg at 5:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by adamg at 5:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
One of the things that would have been funny if it hadn't been so infuriating and sad was seeing all the National Review types who were shocked - SHOCKED - that there was racism going on in there during the lead up to the election.
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
They're still hiding the text that they're voting on tomorrow. Remember read the bill chants? Man, that was fun.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:50 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:50 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Totally dominance politics; take it or leave it. And if you don't vote my way, I'm taking my ball and going home.
In unrelated news, I have played chess with people who lose their queen and angrily resign.
posted by jaduncan at 5:51 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
In unrelated news, I have played chess with people who lose their queen and angrily resign.
posted by jaduncan at 5:51 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
We all knew that DJT was a conman who said anything in order to get elected but honestly it is quite satisfying to see his barefaced lies exposed as complete bullshit.
Secret plan to defeat ISIS? Nope.
Fantastic beautiful healthcare plan both cheaper and better than ObamaCare? Nope.
Knew all the best people, would hire all the best people? Oh pleasssssssse. snort.
Would Lock Hillary up? Doesn't look promising.
Would bring back great-paying jobs to America? We're waiting.....
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:55 PM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
Secret plan to defeat ISIS? Nope.
Fantastic beautiful healthcare plan both cheaper and better than ObamaCare? Nope.
Knew all the best people, would hire all the best people? Oh pleasssssssse. snort.
Would Lock Hillary up? Doesn't look promising.
Would bring back great-paying jobs to America? We're waiting.....
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:55 PM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
FWIW, I think this is going to pass tomorrow by like 1 vote.
posted by Justinian at 5:59 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 5:59 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
FWIW, I think this is going to pass tomorrow by like 1 vote.
If it does I suspect Ryan will place the law in a brown paper bag, set the bag on fire, put it down at the door to the Senate chamber, ring the bell, and run like hell.
posted by Talez at 6:03 PM on March 23, 2017 [35 favorites]
If it does I suspect Ryan will place the law in a brown paper bag, set the bag on fire, put it down at the door to the Senate chamber, ring the bell, and run like hell.
posted by Talez at 6:03 PM on March 23, 2017 [35 favorites]
Sadly, if the Gorsuch Gambit pays off, I suspect Trump and many of his supporters will nevertheless consider his first 100 days a win.
They will have basically stolen a SCOTUS seat from Obama and replaced Scalia in his 80s with a much younger, even more right-wing candidate.
I feel like any reference to Gorsuch in the future would either give him the title of Supreme Court InJustice, or at least have an asterisk by his name, a la sports record-holders that doped.
posted by darkstar at 6:05 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
They will have basically stolen a SCOTUS seat from Obama and replaced Scalia in his 80s with a much younger, even more right-wing candidate.
I feel like any reference to Gorsuch in the future would either give him the title of Supreme Court InJustice, or at least have an asterisk by his name, a la sports record-holders that doped.
posted by darkstar at 6:05 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
I think it will pass the house too. Unread. Republicans are still afraid of 45, and what he might do if thwarted. We're all being held hostage by a psychotic toddler who is going to get his way so he doesn't throw a tantrum and destroy us all.
Like we are all trapped in this episode of the twilight zone.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:06 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Like we are all trapped in this episode of the twilight zone.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:06 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Hey, guess what? Nunes has most of his assets tied up with a winery that distributes to Russia and would benefit from the removal of sanctions!
posted by Sophie1 at 6:07 PM on March 23, 2017 [58 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 6:07 PM on March 23, 2017 [58 favorites]
Well, it won't matter after Gorsuch is impeached. Fruit of a poisoned tree and all that.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:08 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 6:08 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
FWIW, I think this is going to pass tomorrow by like 1 vote.
Yep. Freedom caucus will fall in line and they'll only lose a few "moderates" at most.
If it does I suspect Ryan will place the law in a brown paper bag, set the bag on fire, put it down at the door to the Senate chamber, ring the bell, and run like hell.
I wouldn't bet on the Senate stopping it either. McConnell has promised to put it stright on the floor without changes or committee. If the FC does fall in line, that gives cover for Lee and Cruz who opposed on "not cruel enough" grounds. At that point the fate of US health care will be on Susan Collins, Jeff Flake and maybe Tom Cotton. Betting on any of them to ever do the right thing or to not fuck over their constituents rarely pays off. Maybe Rand Paul is the batshit wild card still, but if it's down to him to keep Obamacare he'll come around too. We're playing Russian roulette with 5 loaded chambers.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:11 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yep. Freedom caucus will fall in line and they'll only lose a few "moderates" at most.
If it does I suspect Ryan will place the law in a brown paper bag, set the bag on fire, put it down at the door to the Senate chamber, ring the bell, and run like hell.
I wouldn't bet on the Senate stopping it either. McConnell has promised to put it stright on the floor without changes or committee. If the FC does fall in line, that gives cover for Lee and Cruz who opposed on "not cruel enough" grounds. At that point the fate of US health care will be on Susan Collins, Jeff Flake and maybe Tom Cotton. Betting on any of them to ever do the right thing or to not fuck over their constituents rarely pays off. Maybe Rand Paul is the batshit wild card still, but if it's down to him to keep Obamacare he'll come around too. We're playing Russian roulette with 5 loaded chambers.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:11 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
What leotrotsky said. I know it sounds insane, but so did "treasonous collusion with Russia," and here we are.
I want to take a giant looney tunes eraser to everything these fuckers touched.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:11 PM on March 23, 2017
I want to take a giant looney tunes eraser to everything these fuckers touched.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:11 PM on March 23, 2017
Trump's ex bankcruptcy lawyer rightwinger David Friedman confirmed: Man who said liberal Jews worse than Nazi collaborators to be US ambassador to Israel
posted by adamvasco at 6:13 PM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by adamvasco at 6:13 PM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
Yep. Freedom caucus will fall in line and they'll only lose a few "moderates" at most
Has the FC ever had the Kochs promising to protect them with a wall of money against an unpopular president and an even more unpopular bill before?
I'm not counting on anything, but this set of circumstances does seem unique.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:15 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Has the FC ever had the Kochs promising to protect them with a wall of money against an unpopular president and an even more unpopular bill before?
I'm not counting on anything, but this set of circumstances does seem unique.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:15 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
So yesterday Ranking Dem on the House Intelligence Committee Schiff said he'd seen more than circumstantial evidence of Trump/Russia collusion.
Obligatory note that there's nothing inherently wrong with circumstantial evidence.
A common example used to illustrate the difference between direct and circumstantial evidence is the determination of whether it rained. On the one hand, if a person testified that he or she looked outside a window and saw rain falling, that is direct evidence that it rained. If, on the other hand, a witness testified that he or she heard distant pitter patter, and later walked outside and saw that the ground was wet, smelled freshness in the air and felt that the air was moist, those sensations would be circumstantial evidence that it had rained.People can and have been convicted of crimes up to and including capital murder on circumstantial evidence.
Circumstantial evidence is often discussed as if it carries less weight than direct evidence. Under the law - and in life - that is not necessarily true. The example above demonstrates that both direct and circumstantial evidence may be equally reliable. In both scenarios, there would be strong proof of rain. Any piece of evidence, whether direct or circumstantial, must be evaluated in terms of whether the source of the evidence is reliable.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:16 PM on March 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
So I finally got around to reading that Guardian article posted upthread about how impeachment might play out. It contains this statement:
Finally, Trump is truly a Washington outsider, which could increase his vulnerability to acts of bureaucratic infighting or hidden treachery, as evidenced by the incredible number of leaks from the intelligence community so far.
Given this, I am left wondering again, WHY has no one leaked his tax returns? Or even leaked knowledge of what they contain? (Last week's 2005 return doesn't count, as I fully believe that were actually leaked by Trump or someone on his team). I mean, there have been a TON of leaks, and while I understand someone who has access to them might not want to take the risk of actually handing them over to the media, you'd think that someone who has seen them could at least anonymously tell a journalist what they contain. That seems a little less risky. It just boggles my mind that this hasn't happened.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:17 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Finally, Trump is truly a Washington outsider, which could increase his vulnerability to acts of bureaucratic infighting or hidden treachery, as evidenced by the incredible number of leaks from the intelligence community so far.
Given this, I am left wondering again, WHY has no one leaked his tax returns? Or even leaked knowledge of what they contain? (Last week's 2005 return doesn't count, as I fully believe that were actually leaked by Trump or someone on his team). I mean, there have been a TON of leaks, and while I understand someone who has access to them might not want to take the risk of actually handing them over to the media, you'd think that someone who has seen them could at least anonymously tell a journalist what they contain. That seems a little less risky. It just boggles my mind that this hasn't happened.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:17 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
People can and have been convicted of crimes up to and including capital murder on circumstantial evidence.
You never thought the CSI effect would be at issue on the question of whether the President of the United States committed treason, but here we are.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:20 PM on March 23, 2017
You never thought the CSI effect would be at issue on the question of whether the President of the United States committed treason, but here we are.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:20 PM on March 23, 2017
Wow. Ryan just came to the cameras, and said, roughly, "For 7 and a half years we have been saying we need to replace this broken law, and tomorrow we are proceeding.", then walked off. Ignored repeated calls of "do you have the votes?".
I'm really hoping -- not expecting, not planning, just hoping -- for another opportunity to bring Sweet Clyde out to laugh derisively.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:24 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm really hoping -- not expecting, not planning, just hoping -- for another opportunity to bring Sweet Clyde out to laugh derisively.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:24 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
We all knew that DJT was a conman who said anything in order to get elected but honestly it is quite satisfying to see his barefaced lies exposed as complete bullshit. [list of Trump promises that he doesn't look like keeping]
This is small potatoes, but he also promised to move the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem - I think he actually said he'd do it on the first day.
Foreign relations of this sort are 100% in the hands of the Executive. The USA already has a consulate in West Jerusalem so the State Department would just have to notify the Israeli government of the official change of address. Presuming they keep the Tel Aviv property for more secure stuff the move wouldn't even need any financial allocation. So why has Trump's public position shifted from "definitely right away" to "soon" to "when things are sorted out" to "if things are sorted out" to "[crickets]"?
I acknowledge that people can give good arguments as to why the US shouldn't move the embassy, but that hasn't stopped Trump before. I'm honestly a bit surprised, and my best explanation is that Trump wants to keep his putative allies anxious and dissatisfied so they'll be eager to demonstrate their loyalty.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:27 PM on March 23, 2017
This is small potatoes, but he also promised to move the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem - I think he actually said he'd do it on the first day.
Foreign relations of this sort are 100% in the hands of the Executive. The USA already has a consulate in West Jerusalem so the State Department would just have to notify the Israeli government of the official change of address. Presuming they keep the Tel Aviv property for more secure stuff the move wouldn't even need any financial allocation. So why has Trump's public position shifted from "definitely right away" to "soon" to "when things are sorted out" to "if things are sorted out" to "[crickets]"?
I acknowledge that people can give good arguments as to why the US shouldn't move the embassy, but that hasn't stopped Trump before. I'm honestly a bit surprised, and my best explanation is that Trump wants to keep his putative allies anxious and dissatisfied so they'll be eager to demonstrate their loyalty.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:27 PM on March 23, 2017
My best explanation is that someone said he shouldn't, so he didn't, and then nobody brought it up around him again so he's forgotten it like a goldfish.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:30 PM on March 23, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:30 PM on March 23, 2017 [26 favorites]
He is like a fucking giant stupid carp.
posted by spitbull at 6:32 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 6:32 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Buzzfeed: Trump Got To Sit In A Big Boy Truck Because Today Was A Special Day!
This is perfect. It has no substance, will convince no one of anything, but it is just absolutely perfect.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:32 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
This is perfect. It has no substance, will convince no one of anything, but it is just absolutely perfect.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:32 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
GOP Lawmakers saying tonight was most "emotional" meeting ever seen. This is their moment. This is freedom, said one.
They're literally in tears over ripping up health care for the poor to pay for tax cuts.
Republican lawmakers are crying tears of joy because they want to kill millions of people, and are passing the laws that will do it.
Tell me again how we're supposed to find common ground. Fucking tell me.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:33 PM on March 23, 2017 [127 favorites]
They're literally in tears over ripping up health care for the poor to pay for tax cuts.
Republican lawmakers are crying tears of joy because they want to kill millions of people, and are passing the laws that will do it.
Tell me again how we're supposed to find common ground. Fucking tell me.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:33 PM on March 23, 2017 [127 favorites]
> I acknowledge that people can give good arguments as to why the US shouldn't move the embassy, but that hasn't stopped Trump before. I'm honestly a bit surprised, and my best explanation is that Trump wants to keep his putative allies anxious and dissatisfied so they'll be eager to demonstrate their loyalty.
Alternately, he forgot, and for whatever reason (maybe they all forgot too!) no one around him has reminded him.
Have any of the shows he watches mentioned moving the embassy lately?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:33 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Alternately, he forgot, and for whatever reason (maybe they all forgot too!) no one around him has reminded him.
Have any of the shows he watches mentioned moving the embassy lately?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:33 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Foreign relations of this sort are 100% in the hands of the Executive. The USA already has a consulate in West Jerusalem so the State Department would just have to notify the Israeli government of the official change of address. Presuming they keep the Tel Aviv property for more secure stuff the move wouldn't even need any financial allocation. So why has Trump's public position shifted from "definitely right away" to "soon" to "when things are sorted out" to "if things are sorted out" to "[crickets]"?
I would imagine that Israel asked for it not to happen. Even Avigdor Liberman's people were briefing that they didn't want it because of the possibilty of another wave of conflict.
posted by jaduncan at 6:35 PM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
I would imagine that Israel asked for it not to happen. Even Avigdor Liberman's people were briefing that they didn't want it because of the possibilty of another wave of conflict.
posted by jaduncan at 6:35 PM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
(and let's face it, when your robustly right wing nationalist pro-Israel statement actions are too much for Avigdor Lieberman...)
posted by jaduncan at 6:37 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by jaduncan at 6:37 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Republican lawmakers are crying tears of job because they want to kill millions of people, and are passing the laws that will do it.
I don’t think that they are actually thinking about this as killing a lot of people and more about saving the country from terrible crushing debts, possibly incurred by freeloaders? But I really don’t have any idea what’s going on anymore and the Freedom Caucus is just bizarre to me so maybe this attempt to empathize with strawmen isn’t going to really work.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:37 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don’t think that they are actually thinking about this as killing a lot of people and more about saving the country from terrible crushing debts, possibly incurred by freeloaders? But I really don’t have any idea what’s going on anymore and the Freedom Caucus is just bizarre to me so maybe this attempt to empathize with strawmen isn’t going to really work.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:37 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
A post in the last thread: Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner make $400 million as a Chinese company buy a large stake in 666 Fifth Avenue now has a postscript: Zaha Hadid Architects unveils 666 Fifth Avenue skyscraper for Kushner Companies
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:37 PM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
The $12 billion plans for 666 Fifth Avenue involve replacing a 1950s office building and adding 40 floors above its previous height.Scroll down for the architectural rendering. It's... trumpworthy.
The glass addition would bring the tower to 1,400 feet (427 metres) tall – putting in the supertall category of skyscrapers between 980 and 2,000 feet (300 and 600 metres)...
...Since they were unveiled on Tuesday, the designs have been described by Twitter users as a middle finger, a Swarovski phallus and a huge glass dildo.
The developers also reportedly want to change the name of the building from 666 to 660 Fifth Avenue to avoid associations with the devil – another feature that has been parodied on social media.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:37 PM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
GOP Lawmakers saying tonight was most "emotional" meeting ever seen. This is their moment. This is freedom, said one.
Is there an article associated with that tweet? I don't click on tweets very often because they take forever to load (for me) for some reason.
posted by futz at 6:38 PM on March 23, 2017
Is there an article associated with that tweet? I don't click on tweets very often because they take forever to load (for me) for some reason.
posted by futz at 6:38 PM on March 23, 2017
I don’t think that they are actually thinking about this as killing a lot of people and more about saving the country from terrible crushing debts, possibly incurred by freeloaders?
Like I said. Killing millions of people.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:38 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Like I said. Killing millions of people.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:38 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Is Trump going to accomplish literally anything in his first 100 days?
In his second month, basically all he’s accomplished is make it easier for the mentally ill to buy guns. (“Trump Still Hasn't Done Very Much.”)
posted by LeLiLo at 6:42 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
In his second month, basically all he’s accomplished is make it easier for the mentally ill to buy guns. (“Trump Still Hasn't Done Very Much.”)
posted by LeLiLo at 6:42 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Intel chairman says he won't tell top Intel Dem who his source on Trump surveillance is
The fuck? Nunes changes his story every 5 seconds.
posted by futz at 6:47 PM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
The fuck? Nunes changes his story every 5 seconds.
posted by futz at 6:47 PM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
Wow. A Brave Front, but Regrets? On Health Bill, Trump Has a Few
posted by zachlipton at 6:47 PM on March 23, 2017 [35 favorites]
Mr. Trump has told four people close to him that he regrets going along with Speaker Paul D. Ryan’s plan to push a health care overhaul before unveiling a tax cut proposal more politically palatable to Republicans.I think he still doesn't have a clue of the procedural considerations that led to his aides telling him they had to do the AHCA before tax cuts and he just smiled and nodded along with it. Now all of a sudden, the whole thing is blowing up in his face, and he's completely confused about what happened.
He said ruefully this week that he should have done tax reform first when it became clear that the quick-hit health care victory he had hoped for was not going to materialize on Thursday, the seventh anniversary of the act’s passage.
...
If Mr. Trump has any advantage in the negotiations, it is his ideological flexibility: He is more interested in a win, or avoiding a loss, than any of the arcane policy specifics of the complicated measure, according to a dozen aides and allies interviewed over the past week who described his mood as impatient and jittery.
posted by zachlipton at 6:47 PM on March 23, 2017 [35 favorites]
I don’t think that they are actually thinking about this as killing a lot of people and more about saving the country from terrible crushing debts, possibly incurred by freeloaders?
Like I said. Killing millions of people.
My quibble here is with the word “want” in the original since I think that they don’t want to kill people. Rather, they are perhaps “content to accept”. Which is also gross, so this whole thing is dumb, including my quibbling, but I like precision and so I quibble.
Honestly, the notion of crying at such an event makes me think more that it’s just about Obamacare as this huge, emotional shibboleth, a thing that exists beyond substance. They are there to fulfill a purpose, and now is the time.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Like I said. Killing millions of people.
My quibble here is with the word “want” in the original since I think that they don’t want to kill people. Rather, they are perhaps “content to accept”. Which is also gross, so this whole thing is dumb, including my quibbling, but I like precision and so I quibble.
Honestly, the notion of crying at such an event makes me think more that it’s just about Obamacare as this huge, emotional shibboleth, a thing that exists beyond substance. They are there to fulfill a purpose, and now is the time.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
As a little distraction, I'm compiling a list of adjectives to describe the current president, his little regime and the republican party.
Tawdry, ersatz, tainted, infantile, scuzzy, moronic, schifoso, fake, putrid, SAD, illegitimate, malformed, dirty, filthy, boggled, cheap, disgusting, primitive, childish, tarnished, abhorrent, loathsome, repulsive, odious, reprehensible, faux, wrong, bad, sham, shameful, repugnant, unforgivable, DISHONORABLE, TRAITOROUS, CRIMINAL, RETROGRADE.
I'm just warming up.
posted by snsranch at 6:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Tawdry, ersatz, tainted, infantile, scuzzy, moronic, schifoso, fake, putrid, SAD, illegitimate, malformed, dirty, filthy, boggled, cheap, disgusting, primitive, childish, tarnished, abhorrent, loathsome, repulsive, odious, reprehensible, faux, wrong, bad, sham, shameful, repugnant, unforgivable, DISHONORABLE, TRAITOROUS, CRIMINAL, RETROGRADE.
I'm just warming up.
posted by snsranch at 6:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
The thing is, this is a dumb bill, and if it actually passes the Senate and becomes law, it will destroy the GOP at midterms. Every American who touches the ACA in any way is going to have their life made worse, probably significantly. Those people will be reminded every month that they used to be able to have sort of expensive, fairly adequate insurance and now they have hugely expensive garbage insurance or nothing at all. And it's not like "24. million people will lose their insurance" is being kept a secret.
If the GOP has any fucking brains at all, they will stick together and sink this bill.
posted by Frowner at 6:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [40 favorites]
If the GOP has any fucking brains at all, they will stick together and sink this bill.
posted by Frowner at 6:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [40 favorites]
Zaha Hadid Architects unveils 666 Fifth Avenue skyscraper for Kushner Companies
Christ, all it's missing is the Eye of Sauron on top.
posted by jferg at 6:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
Christ, all it's missing is the Eye of Sauron on top.
posted by jferg at 6:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
Well, let's face it, peeing on Obama's legacy was priority 1 through 100.
posted by Artw at 6:50 PM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:50 PM on March 23, 2017 [13 favorites]
Honestly, the notion of crying at such an event makes me think more that it’s just about Obamacare as this huge, emotional shibboleth, a thing that exists beyond substance. They are there to fulfill a purpose, and now is the time.
Washing away the signature achievement of America's first black President triggers such a cathartic release that the whites are back in charge now, that they don't even stop to care about killing millions of people. That makes it better.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:52 PM on March 23, 2017 [51 favorites]
Washing away the signature achievement of America's first black President triggers such a cathartic release that the whites are back in charge now, that they don't even stop to care about killing millions of people. That makes it better.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:52 PM on March 23, 2017 [51 favorites]
I don't click on tweets very often because they take forever to load (for me) for some reason.
Maybe because it takes 1.2 MB and 180 requests to load a 140-character tweet.
posted by stopgap at 6:53 PM on March 23, 2017 [25 favorites]
Maybe because it takes 1.2 MB and 180 requests to load a 140-character tweet.
posted by stopgap at 6:53 PM on March 23, 2017 [25 favorites]
A post in the last thread: Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner make $400 million as a Chinese company buy a large stake in 666 Fifth Avenue now has a postscript: Zaha Hadid Architects unveils 666 Fifth Avenue skyscraper for Kushner Companies
Moderate irony: Zaha Hadid was a British national but Iraqi-born. If she'd lived to see the project, she'd already have gone through a period of her entry to the US being barred.
posted by jaduncan at 6:55 PM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
Moderate irony: Zaha Hadid was a British national but Iraqi-born. If she'd lived to see the project, she'd already have gone through a period of her entry to the US being barred.
posted by jaduncan at 6:55 PM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
Holy shit stopgap. Thank you for the info/validation. wowsers.
posted by futz at 6:55 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by futz at 6:55 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wife Now Regrets Supporting Trump After Husband Set to be Deported
Leopards, faces, etc.
posted by jaduncan at 7:01 PM on March 23, 2017 [57 favorites]
Leopards, faces, etc.
posted by jaduncan at 7:01 PM on March 23, 2017 [57 favorites]
Intel chairman says he won't tell top Intel Dem who his source on Trump surveillance is
I hope Schiff and crew go ballistic on Nunes. Nunes doing this is the act of a desperate man. This is a yuge deal imo.
posted by futz at 7:02 PM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
I hope Schiff and crew go ballistic on Nunes. Nunes doing this is the act of a desperate man. This is a yuge deal imo.
posted by futz at 7:02 PM on March 23, 2017 [16 favorites]
I don't click on tweets very often because they take forever to load (for me) for some reason.
Maybe because it takes 1.2 MB and 180 requests to load a 140-character tweet.
Holy shit stopgap. Thank you for the info/validation. wowsers.
I believe that this is partly an artifact of it being the first time you visit the page though - Subsequent tweets take significantly less in the way of requests because of everything that’s being cached.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:02 PM on March 23, 2017
Maybe because it takes 1.2 MB and 180 requests to load a 140-character tweet.
Holy shit stopgap. Thank you for the info/validation. wowsers.
I believe that this is partly an artifact of it being the first time you visit the page though - Subsequent tweets take significantly less in the way of requests because of everything that’s being cached.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:02 PM on March 23, 2017
is there a source other than lawnewz.com for the "woman regrets voting Trump after husband set to be deported" story? I want to share it, but I don't trust the outlet...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:10 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:10 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
@ChrisSnyderFox Lawmakers told that if vote fails, Trump is done with health care and is ready to move on to Tax Reform, @FoxNews @MikeEmanuelFox learns
@LOLGOP Trump shockingly willing to move on to younger, more pliable bill.
posted by chaoticgood at 7:11 PM on March 23, 2017 [37 favorites]
@LOLGOP Trump shockingly willing to move on to younger, more pliable bill.
posted by chaoticgood at 7:11 PM on March 23, 2017 [37 favorites]
Christ, all it's missing is the Eye of Sauron on top.
posted by EarBucket at 7:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by EarBucket at 7:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
is there a source other than lawnewz.com for the "woman regrets voting Trump after husband set to be deported" story? I want to share it, but I don't trust the outlet...
Indiana Restaurant Owner To Be Deported Friday
posted by chris24 at 7:15 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Indiana Restaurant Owner To Be Deported Friday
posted by chris24 at 7:15 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Rick Gates out at America First Policies over Manafort ties to Russia.
Rick Gates, the longtime deputy to President Donald Trump's former campaign chairman Paul Manafort, was forced to leave his position with a nonprofit supporting Trump this week due to his longstanding relationship with Manafort, two sources familiar with the matter told CNN.
posted by futz at 7:15 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Rick Gates, the longtime deputy to President Donald Trump's former campaign chairman Paul Manafort, was forced to leave his position with a nonprofit supporting Trump this week due to his longstanding relationship with Manafort, two sources familiar with the matter told CNN.
posted by futz at 7:15 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
Lots, just google for "Helen Beristain". As an example, Yahoo News. Local media, Buzzfeed and whatnot. Yeah, it's a real story.
posted by jaduncan at 7:15 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by jaduncan at 7:15 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
BuzzFeed: This Woman Voted For Trump But Now The Government Is Deporting Her Husband
posted by kirkaracha at 7:24 PM on March 23, 2017 [22 favorites]
A Mexican man who entered the United States illegally almost 20 years ago is set to be deported on Friday, amid an uptick in detentions by immigration agents emboldened by President Donald Trump — whom the man’s own wife voted for.You broke it, you bought it. Did you except better from Mr. "They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists."?
...
“With Roberto expecting his first child soon, this was not an option for him to leave,” Kolliopoulos wrote. “He believed to be the supportive and loving husband and father he was made to be.”
...
“[Trump] did say the good people would not be deported, the good people would be checked,” Helen Beristain said.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:24 PM on March 23, 2017 [22 favorites]
It's funny. Trump got to play truck driver today, but not once did he ask the actual truck drivers present whether they're supposed to drive a dangerous truck down the interstate, endangering themselves and everyone on the road, or freeze to death.
posted by zachlipton at 7:26 PM on March 23, 2017 [46 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 7:26 PM on March 23, 2017 [46 favorites]
He also didn't ask how they planned on existing once self driving trucks become a thing.
posted by sotonohito at 7:32 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by sotonohito at 7:32 PM on March 23, 2017 [11 favorites]
Here's the local coverage. Buttigieg wrote in support of him, mentioning the conservative community's loss, but nothing in the article about her being a Trump voter. I can't say I'm surprised.
posted by worldswalker at 7:39 PM on March 23, 2017
posted by worldswalker at 7:39 PM on March 23, 2017
It's funny. Trump got to play truck driver today, but not once did he ask the actual truck drivers present whether they're supposed to drive a dangerous truck down the interstate, endangering themselves and everyone on the road, or freeze to death.
Given the decision would have established a lack of protection for the driver in the event of a mechanical issue, let's just consider a hypothetical failed heating system. In short, why not both?
posted by jaduncan at 7:39 PM on March 23, 2017
Given the decision would have established a lack of protection for the driver in the event of a mechanical issue, let's just consider a hypothetical failed heating system. In short, why not both?
posted by jaduncan at 7:39 PM on March 23, 2017
Also, of course they'll pass the ACHA, without having a clue what's in it. Repealing the ACA has been their reason for existence, even more than banning abortion, ever since that uppity black man first got it passed. To them it has a massive significance beyond merely being a healthcare reform law, it's the sum total of all the evils of the Obama administration and eradicating the ACA is a way of retroactively pretending Obama never happened.
All the bickering over the details was just that, I've been confident since the beginning that they never had the slightest intention of letting the repeal fail. Maybe they'll let it be close, a victory by one vote or something, so the various "indepdnent" Republicans can say they did their true conservative duty or whatever, but the idea that they'd let this opportunity slip by is simply not plausable.
Yes, the ACHA will be a miserable failure and hurt them in the 2018 and 2020 elections, yes stealing healthcare from 24 million people is the worst sort of lousy optics imaginable. Yes, we hope (and they fear) that every single person who dies as a result of this will be front page news "Another victim of the ACHA died today from complications of [insert disease here] after their health insurance was canceled".
But what else are they going to do? Admit that the ACA did good stuff? Admit that all their hate against it was just empty posturing? They can't.
Just as the Republicans will never, ever, impeach Trump, not because they love him but because they have no choice, so too will they pass this. They have no choice.
It really sucks for America, but that's where we are. There is no possible way this won't pass.
I'll take amusement in just how much of a shitshow it was getting it passed, I'll laugh at their clowncar lack of organization and infighting. But in the end they'll get it passed.
posted by sotonohito at 7:43 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
All the bickering over the details was just that, I've been confident since the beginning that they never had the slightest intention of letting the repeal fail. Maybe they'll let it be close, a victory by one vote or something, so the various "indepdnent" Republicans can say they did their true conservative duty or whatever, but the idea that they'd let this opportunity slip by is simply not plausable.
Yes, the ACHA will be a miserable failure and hurt them in the 2018 and 2020 elections, yes stealing healthcare from 24 million people is the worst sort of lousy optics imaginable. Yes, we hope (and they fear) that every single person who dies as a result of this will be front page news "Another victim of the ACHA died today from complications of [insert disease here] after their health insurance was canceled".
But what else are they going to do? Admit that the ACA did good stuff? Admit that all their hate against it was just empty posturing? They can't.
Just as the Republicans will never, ever, impeach Trump, not because they love him but because they have no choice, so too will they pass this. They have no choice.
It really sucks for America, but that's where we are. There is no possible way this won't pass.
I'll take amusement in just how much of a shitshow it was getting it passed, I'll laugh at their clowncar lack of organization and infighting. But in the end they'll get it passed.
posted by sotonohito at 7:43 PM on March 23, 2017 [9 favorites]
All this talk about the ACA repeal vote is a bit too early for my taste.
I've seen the story about Republicans defecting before. And we are living in the world's darkest timeline.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 7:45 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
I've seen the story about Republicans defecting before. And we are living in the world's darkest timeline.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 7:45 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Intel chairman says he won't tell top Intel Dem who his source on Trump surveillance is
I am narrowing down the hypotheses on what game Nunes is playing alarmingly quickly:
1. Nunes is far, far stupider that even the most insulting prior assessments of his intelligence suggest.
2. Someone has some serious leverage on Nunes and is forcing him to do stupid shit he doesn't really want to do.
3. Nunes holds a radical-reductionist view of Parfit's notion on continuity of personal identity, which combined with his "fuck you got mine" attitude towards other people, leads him to be wholly indifferent to the tribulations he unleashes on his future self.
I mean, never mind 11-dimensional chess, this shit is about looking ahead one move in a game of checkers. Going to the press with simultaneously wildly sensational and completely unsurprising revelations is going to piss off the committee members you cut out of the loop. For fuck's sake figure out a damage-control approach before you do that.
just google for "Helen Beristain".
Oh, shit, did we end up in the 'only one n' universe? Most of the timeline atlases say this one is really fucking bad, worse even then the 'Beerinstane' one.
posted by jackbishop at 7:45 PM on March 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
I am narrowing down the hypotheses on what game Nunes is playing alarmingly quickly:
1. Nunes is far, far stupider that even the most insulting prior assessments of his intelligence suggest.
2. Someone has some serious leverage on Nunes and is forcing him to do stupid shit he doesn't really want to do.
3. Nunes holds a radical-reductionist view of Parfit's notion on continuity of personal identity, which combined with his "fuck you got mine" attitude towards other people, leads him to be wholly indifferent to the tribulations he unleashes on his future self.
I mean, never mind 11-dimensional chess, this shit is about looking ahead one move in a game of checkers. Going to the press with simultaneously wildly sensational and completely unsurprising revelations is going to piss off the committee members you cut out of the loop. For fuck's sake figure out a damage-control approach before you do that.
just google for "Helen Beristain".
Oh, shit, did we end up in the 'only one n' universe? Most of the timeline atlases say this one is really fucking bad, worse even then the 'Beerinstane' one.
posted by jackbishop at 7:45 PM on March 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
The GOP would gladly resurrect Osama bin Laden just so Obama couldn't claim his death as an accomplishment.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:46 PM on March 23, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:46 PM on March 23, 2017 [27 favorites]
Random moment of reflection:
So far the Trump campaign, transition team, and administration has featured white supremacists, people in breach of voter registration law, a Hungarian suspected Nazi ally who would like to clarify that he only wears far-right medals in honour of his father's previous Nazi ally status, a collective attempt by every member of the administration to remove healthcare insurance from over 20 million people, admissions of past sexual assaults, open Islamophobes, Flynn and Manafort resigning due to their status as unregistered foreign agents, open liars stating that what they previously said was just for electoral purposes, and a congressional committee head who appears to have openly broken the law related to his committee.
But some, I assume, are good people.
posted by jaduncan at 7:47 PM on March 23, 2017 [39 favorites]
So far the Trump campaign, transition team, and administration has featured white supremacists, people in breach of voter registration law, a Hungarian suspected Nazi ally who would like to clarify that he only wears far-right medals in honour of his father's previous Nazi ally status, a collective attempt by every member of the administration to remove healthcare insurance from over 20 million people, admissions of past sexual assaults, open Islamophobes, Flynn and Manafort resigning due to their status as unregistered foreign agents, open liars stating that what they previously said was just for electoral purposes, and a congressional committee head who appears to have openly broken the law related to his committee.
But some, I assume, are good people.
posted by jaduncan at 7:47 PM on March 23, 2017 [39 favorites]
@neeratanden Ivanka:We are getting rid of maternity benefits in health care coverage, but don't worry women of America, I have a tax cut for your au pair
@sarahcpr Breaking: Ivanka Trump releases statement demanding #FreedomCaucus cover maternity care (just kidding she's skiing)
posted by chaoticgood at 7:47 PM on March 23, 2017 [25 favorites]
@sarahcpr Breaking: Ivanka Trump releases statement demanding #FreedomCaucus cover maternity care (just kidding she's skiing)
posted by chaoticgood at 7:47 PM on March 23, 2017 [25 favorites]
> Also, of course they'll pass the ACHA
AHCA. Sorry, I've done almost nothing else this week at work but post new and update old (like, ten-minute old) things on kff.org about the Ay Aitch See Ay and I'm picky about this.
posted by rtha at 7:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
AHCA. Sorry, I've done almost nothing else this week at work but post new and update old (like, ten-minute old) things on kff.org about the Ay Aitch See Ay and I'm picky about this.
posted by rtha at 7:49 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
The GOP would gladly resurrect Osama bin Laden just so Obama couldn't claim his death as an accomplishment.
They need him to testify on Benghazi.
posted by scalefree at 7:51 PM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
They need him to testify on Benghazi.
posted by scalefree at 7:51 PM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
But some, I assume, are good people.
McMaster seems, uh, OKish? He hasn't done anything breathtakingly horrible yet? I think?
posted by jackbishop at 7:51 PM on March 23, 2017
McMaster seems, uh, OKish? He hasn't done anything breathtakingly horrible yet? I think?
posted by jackbishop at 7:51 PM on March 23, 2017
I don’t think that they are actually thinking about this as killing a lot of people and more about saving the country from terrible crushing debts, possibly incurred by freeloaders?
Republican politicians don't care about debt. When they are whining about debt they are either making a show for their silly voters, or trying to bury the possibility of raising taxes, because taxing rich people is something they care a lot about. Debt is an argumentative stance, not really part of their ideology.
The larger ideology is that health care is not government's job. The free market + church/charity may not be a perfect solution, but it's the ONLY solution, because having the government do things for the common folk is hazardous, un-American, creeping Communism, etc. It leads to destruction, it's inherently bad. Government is a dangerous addiction that America needs to be weened from. Reliance on government takes away from reliance on family and church, which are the legitimate social structures — not government. Secular society is evil and must be destroyed, you see.
Of course when it comes to government helping out the rich people and companies, Republicans are suddenly all for that, because jobs, innovation, international competitiveness, etc. etc. Things big companies want are real and it's totally government's job to help them out and do whatever they say.
posted by fleacircus at 7:52 PM on March 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
Republican politicians don't care about debt. When they are whining about debt they are either making a show for their silly voters, or trying to bury the possibility of raising taxes, because taxing rich people is something they care a lot about. Debt is an argumentative stance, not really part of their ideology.
The larger ideology is that health care is not government's job. The free market + church/charity may not be a perfect solution, but it's the ONLY solution, because having the government do things for the common folk is hazardous, un-American, creeping Communism, etc. It leads to destruction, it's inherently bad. Government is a dangerous addiction that America needs to be weened from. Reliance on government takes away from reliance on family and church, which are the legitimate social structures — not government. Secular society is evil and must be destroyed, you see.
Of course when it comes to government helping out the rich people and companies, Republicans are suddenly all for that, because jobs, innovation, international competitiveness, etc. etc. Things big companies want are real and it's totally government's job to help them out and do whatever they say.
posted by fleacircus at 7:52 PM on March 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
> New Yorker: The Reclusive Hedge-Fund Tycoon Behind The Trump Presidency, featuring some of Mercer's beliefs:
Jane Mayer on Democracy Now: Jane Mayer on Robert Mercer & the Dark Money Behind Trump and Bannon
Dark Money Billionaires Push for Pro-Nuclear Radiation Climate Denier for White House Science Post
Dark Data: Trump Backers Bankroll Firm Developing Psychological Profiles of Every U.S. Voter
posted by homunculus at 7:55 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Patterson also recalled Mercer arguing that, during the Gulf War, the U.S. should simply have taken Iraq’s oil, “since it was there.” Trump, too, has said that the U.S. should have “kept the oil.” Expropriating another country’s natural resources is a violation of international law. Another onetime senior employee at Renaissance recalls hearing Mercer downplay the dangers posed by nuclear war. Mercer, speaking of the atomic bombs that the U.S. dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, argued that, outside of the immediate blast zones, the radiation actually made Japanese citizens healthier. The National Academy of Sciences has found no evidence to support this notion. Nevertheless, according to the onetime employee, Mercer, who is a proponent of nuclear power, “was very excited about the idea, and felt that it meant nuclear accidents weren’t such a big deal.”
Mercer strongly supported the nomination of Jeff Sessions to be Trump’s Attorney General. Many civil-rights groups opposed the nomination, pointing out that Sessions has in the past expressed racist views. Mercer, for his part, has argued that the Civil Rights Act, in 1964, was a major mistake. According to the onetime Renaissance employee, Mercer has asserted repeatedly that African-Americans were better off economically before the civil-rights movement. (Few scholars agree.) He has also said that the problem of racism in America is exaggerated. The source said that, not long ago, he heard Mercer proclaim that there are no white racists in America today, only black racists. (Mercer, meanwhile, has supported a super pac, Black Americans for a Better Future, whose goal is to “get more Blacks involved in the Republican Party.”)
Jane Mayer on Democracy Now: Jane Mayer on Robert Mercer & the Dark Money Behind Trump and Bannon
Dark Money Billionaires Push for Pro-Nuclear Radiation Climate Denier for White House Science Post
Dark Data: Trump Backers Bankroll Firm Developing Psychological Profiles of Every U.S. Voter
posted by homunculus at 7:55 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
Let’s dispel once and for all with this fiction that Ivanka doesn’t know what she’s doing. She's not a moderating force; she's not a Strong Daddy Whisperer. She and her husband are in it for themselves, they know a shitshow when they see one, and they want to be as far as they can from it as possible. She knows exactly what she’s doing.
posted by chaoticgood at 7:57 PM on March 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by chaoticgood at 7:57 PM on March 23, 2017 [24 favorites]
And the fact big business investment choices and decision making and pushing all their operational risk onto the labor pool are rapidly accelerating a real breakdown in organic social structures and forcing a lot of poor younger people into crime out of desperation doesn't even enter their pretty little heads.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:57 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by saulgoodman at 7:57 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Helen Beristain was under the impression that only dangerous criminals would be deported under the Trump administration.
People often absorb and accept discriminatory attitudes, even when they're directed against them. For instance, when European antisemitism began to increase after WW1, the first response of many Jews was to endorse official measures against "Jewish criminals" or the "over-representation of Jews" in some professions. They thought that those measures were a safeguard against antisemitism, not just a symptom of it.
Ms Beristain had good reason to feel nervous about anti-migrant sentiment; it was totally natural for her to hope that there would be nothing to exacerbate it. But the actual threat to her family was the official response to it. Even if she didn't think Trump's campaign was promoting fear of and hatred towards migrants, surely she could have seen that he would be more likely than Clinton to deport her family?
The same thing applies to official measures that primarily affect all sorts of groups. It doesn't matter if you think that they're only going to get the criminal/outspoken/outrageous ones; it's your group that's under attack and you need to show solidarity with them.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:01 PM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
People often absorb and accept discriminatory attitudes, even when they're directed against them. For instance, when European antisemitism began to increase after WW1, the first response of many Jews was to endorse official measures against "Jewish criminals" or the "over-representation of Jews" in some professions. They thought that those measures were a safeguard against antisemitism, not just a symptom of it.
Ms Beristain had good reason to feel nervous about anti-migrant sentiment; it was totally natural for her to hope that there would be nothing to exacerbate it. But the actual threat to her family was the official response to it. Even if she didn't think Trump's campaign was promoting fear of and hatred towards migrants, surely she could have seen that he would be more likely than Clinton to deport her family?
The same thing applies to official measures that primarily affect all sorts of groups. It doesn't matter if you think that they're only going to get the criminal/outspoken/outrageous ones; it's your group that's under attack and you need to show solidarity with them.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:01 PM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
The larger ideology is that health care is not government's job.
Nah, it's not even that complex. They'd like the ACA if they could figure out a way to take credit for it (which they can't, because from day 1 they insisted on calling it "Obamacare" and they'd look dumb trying to own that now). Hell, they took credit for it every time it or a similar plan had Republican origins (e.g. "Romneycare", until Romney ran against Obama and that all became awkward). It involves forcibly shoving people (courtesy of the individual mandate) into the scrum of a competitive marketplace. That's intensely, aggressively capitalistic, and in an arena where some sort of social-welfare support is more the norm. If they could figure out ways to deliver captive markets to every other industry, they wouldn't blink twice at a government structure to do so.
posted by jackbishop at 8:01 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Nah, it's not even that complex. They'd like the ACA if they could figure out a way to take credit for it (which they can't, because from day 1 they insisted on calling it "Obamacare" and they'd look dumb trying to own that now). Hell, they took credit for it every time it or a similar plan had Republican origins (e.g. "Romneycare", until Romney ran against Obama and that all became awkward). It involves forcibly shoving people (courtesy of the individual mandate) into the scrum of a competitive marketplace. That's intensely, aggressively capitalistic, and in an arena where some sort of social-welfare support is more the norm. If they could figure out ways to deliver captive markets to every other industry, they wouldn't blink twice at a government structure to do so.
posted by jackbishop at 8:01 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
rtha: "AHCA. Sorry, I've done almost nothing else this week at work but post new and update old (like, ten-minute old) things on kff.org about the Ay Aitch See Ay and I'm picky about this."
The ONLY good thing about this bill is they didn't give it one of those stupid "backronym" names.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:01 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
The ONLY good thing about this bill is they didn't give it one of those stupid "backronym" names.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:01 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
The healthcare press was disappointed they didn't rework the title so it was called ACHOO.
posted by zachlipton at 8:03 PM on March 23, 2017
posted by zachlipton at 8:03 PM on March 23, 2017
Let’s dispel once and for all with this fiction that Ivanka doesn’t know what she’s doing.
Ivanka will be the one they put up as Kim Jong Un if Trump's Alzheimer's advances too far before 2024. She's fully invested in the regime, the heir apparent, she's not some friend to liberals trying to hold back the worst impulses. All his kids have their roles converting the resources and power of the Presidency into the personal coffers of TrumpOrg. They're all utterly committed to the corrupt effort, including nice, pretty, liberal-whisperer Ivanka. She's probably the worst of them all, taking on an active and entirely unelected role in conducting the affairs of the United States as the heir.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:05 PM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
Ivanka will be the one they put up as Kim Jong Un if Trump's Alzheimer's advances too far before 2024. She's fully invested in the regime, the heir apparent, she's not some friend to liberals trying to hold back the worst impulses. All his kids have their roles converting the resources and power of the Presidency into the personal coffers of TrumpOrg. They're all utterly committed to the corrupt effort, including nice, pretty, liberal-whisperer Ivanka. She's probably the worst of them all, taking on an active and entirely unelected role in conducting the affairs of the United States as the heir.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:05 PM on March 23, 2017 [12 favorites]
The same thing applies to official measures that primarily affect all sorts of groups. It doesn't matter if you think that they're only going to get the criminal/outspoken/outrageous ones; it's your group that's under attack and you need to show solidarity with them.
Didn't Martin Niemöller have something to say about this?
posted by jaduncan at 8:06 PM on March 23, 2017
Didn't Martin Niemöller have something to say about this?
posted by jaduncan at 8:06 PM on March 23, 2017
ACHOO
A Complete Hodgepodge of an Odious Orgy?
posted by Talez at 8:07 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
A Complete Hodgepodge of an Odious Orgy?
posted by Talez at 8:07 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
sotonohito: “If they're permitting programs where you pay $10 a month and only cover being trampled by zebras and the only in network provider is an unqualified NP 500 miles away then that's what they have to buy.”"It says something about filling my mouth in with cement?"
"Oh that's just insurance jargon."
zachlipton: “After an Immigration Raid, a City's Students Vanish”My teacher friend called me in tears of rage Monday night because so many of his students have ghosted in the past month. Half his advanced class is empty. The salutatorian of the class of 2017 came to him in tears because she had to turn down a full college scholarship because she was brought to America by her parents when she was two years old.
posted by ob1quixote at 8:07 PM on March 23, 2017 [47 favorites]
TrumpCare 2.0 (PDF). The new Amendment to TrumpCare is now available from House Republicans.
posted by scalefree at 8:07 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 8:07 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Is the new evidence that Schiff announced today on Nunes? The evidence Schiff says he would take to a grand jury? Or am I thinking into it too much. His statement is totally ambiguous on that possibility.
"We continue to get new information that, I think, paints a more complete picture of at least what we know at the outset of our investigation," Schiff said. . . .
The California Democrat said it was "baffling" that his Republican counterpart on the committee, Nunes, would not rule out that the information he disclosed Wednesday . . . came from the White House.
posted by Dr. Send at 8:11 PM on March 23, 2017
"We continue to get new information that, I think, paints a more complete picture of at least what we know at the outset of our investigation," Schiff said. . . .
The California Democrat said it was "baffling" that his Republican counterpart on the committee, Nunes, would not rule out that the information he disclosed Wednesday . . . came from the White House.
posted by Dr. Send at 8:11 PM on March 23, 2017
‘‘Page 50, line 11, insert before the period the fol-Anybody know the context for this amendment? Because I am worried it is nothing more than a bribe to Republican states and a screwjob aimed at blue states. The average population density of red states is low.
lowing: ‘and to individuals who have high costs of health
insurance coverage due to the low density population of
the State in which they reside’.’’
posted by Justinian at 8:13 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
She knows exactly what she’s doing.
I see what you did there. Well played.
posted by spitbull at 8:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
I see what you did there. Well played.
posted by spitbull at 8:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
I honestly don't know what to hope for. A lot of commentators seem to think that this bill dying in the Senate is politically worse for the GOP than it dying in the House. But I don't quite get why. Seems to me that a No vote tomorrow would hang a nice big LOSER sign on both Trump and Ryan while a No in the Senate lets them all save face.
Someone want to argue the other side?
posted by saturday_morning at 8:16 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Someone want to argue the other side?
posted by saturday_morning at 8:16 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ok, that amendment goes here:
posted by Justinian at 8:23 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
‘A State may use the funds allocated to the State under this title for any of the following purposes: [...]so yeah seems like it's a provision that allows most red states to subsidize costs in ways disallowed for most blue states. Although since "low population density" doesn't appear to be defined I have no idea how this would work. Also not sure that can pass with reconciliation.
6 (3) Reducing the cost for providing health in-
7 surance coverage in the individual market and small
8 group market, as such markets are defined by the
9 State, to individuals who have, or are projected to
10 have, a high rate of utilization of health services (as
11 measured by cost).
posted by Justinian at 8:23 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
I honestly don't know what to hope for. A lot of commentators seem to think that this bill dying in the Senate is politically worse for the GOP than it dying in the house. But I don't quite get why. Seems to me that a No vote tomorrow would hang a nice big LOSER sign on both Trump and Ryan.
Someone want to argue the other side?
Any Republican defectors might get primaried. If they don't get primaried, they will just have voted for removing insurance from over 20 million people...and doing that spreads the blame from the House's gerrymandered and relatively safe seats to the non-gerrymandered Senate state seats. People would have to explain their stance on a really unpopular piece of legislation for 2018, especially if they have to make on the record statements. Either they annoy the Republican right or the Republican centrists, because the legislation itself is so extreme. The defectors would also be alienated from Trump, who might well offer much less support in 2018 because he appears utterly incapable of letting go of any perceived slight.
Personally I agree with you more than the above argument, and would also note that it would be likely to deepen divisions in the House if it fails there. It's important that a reliable coalition is prevented for as long as possible.
posted by jaduncan at 8:25 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Someone want to argue the other side?
Any Republican defectors might get primaried. If they don't get primaried, they will just have voted for removing insurance from over 20 million people...and doing that spreads the blame from the House's gerrymandered and relatively safe seats to the non-gerrymandered Senate state seats. People would have to explain their stance on a really unpopular piece of legislation for 2018, especially if they have to make on the record statements. Either they annoy the Republican right or the Republican centrists, because the legislation itself is so extreme. The defectors would also be alienated from Trump, who might well offer much less support in 2018 because he appears utterly incapable of letting go of any perceived slight.
Personally I agree with you more than the above argument, and would also note that it would be likely to deepen divisions in the House if it fails there. It's important that a reliable coalition is prevented for as long as possible.
posted by jaduncan at 8:25 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Meadows is awful, but this is a pretty good line:
Meadows on health care bill: I'm not confident in anything right now. All I'm confident is I'm going home to go to bed."
posted by Chrysostom at 8:26 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Meadows on health care bill: I'm not confident in anything right now. All I'm confident is I'm going home to go to bed."
posted by Chrysostom at 8:26 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
(Btw, ACHOO can refer to Autosomal Dominant Compelling Helio-Ophthalmic Outburst Syndrome, or the "photic sneeze reflex." It causes sneezing in response to sunlight or other strong visual stimuli. I read an article this week about how its presence correlates with large corneal nerves.)
posted by robstercraw at 8:27 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by robstercraw at 8:27 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
If Mr. Trump has any advantage in the negotiations, it is his ideological flexibility.
WOULD SOMEBODY PLEASE SNEAK A MEDICARE FOR ALL BILL ONTO THIS MAN'S DESK HE WILL LITERALLY SIGN ANYTHING
posted by rouftop at 8:28 PM on March 23, 2017 [22 favorites]
WOULD SOMEBODY PLEASE SNEAK A MEDICARE FOR ALL BILL ONTO THIS MAN'S DESK HE WILL LITERALLY SIGN ANYTHING
posted by rouftop at 8:28 PM on March 23, 2017 [22 favorites]
I don't know how much trust to put in something called The Palmer Report so let me know if it's crap.
But anyhoo, it's floating a theory that Pence was recorded talking to Manafort and whatever that recording was spooked Nunes and made him act crazy.
I admit I don't quite follow this theory. However, I do remember Pence being a Manafort accomplishment, so his ties with Russia seem like the kind of thing to look into?
posted by emjaybee at 8:30 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
But anyhoo, it's floating a theory that Pence was recorded talking to Manafort and whatever that recording was spooked Nunes and made him act crazy.
I admit I don't quite follow this theory. However, I do remember Pence being a Manafort accomplishment, so his ties with Russia seem like the kind of thing to look into?
posted by emjaybee at 8:30 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Here's more on the "Frozen Trucker", whose name is Alphonse Maddin: When Neil Gorsuch put corporate interests over a man freezing to death.
In the seven years since being fired, he had struggled to get consistent, decent-paying work, especially as his records said he had abandoned a load.
“That’s regarded as a cardinal sin in trucking,” he said. When he won his case, he was given backdated pay and the right to reinstatement. But he didn’t return to a company he felt had a “hiring and firing culture” and “had put its load over my life”.
Seven years of stress and poverty – he spent the time without a home of his own, staying with friends and relatives – damaged his relationship with his only child, a daughter who was nine when he was fired, he said.
Upon vindication, he didn’t even read Neil Gorsuch’s dissent until the judge was nominated for the supreme court.
“Then the first thing I noticed was that in his opening reference he simply called me a trucker and didn’t use my name,” he said.
...
Since he won his case, Maddin has completed a master’s degree in science, aeronautics and unmanned aerospace systems.
He is currently looking for work “anywhere in the world”, but designing vehicles, not driving them.
posted by triggerfinger at 8:30 PM on March 23, 2017 [90 favorites]
In the seven years since being fired, he had struggled to get consistent, decent-paying work, especially as his records said he had abandoned a load.
“That’s regarded as a cardinal sin in trucking,” he said. When he won his case, he was given backdated pay and the right to reinstatement. But he didn’t return to a company he felt had a “hiring and firing culture” and “had put its load over my life”.
Seven years of stress and poverty – he spent the time without a home of his own, staying with friends and relatives – damaged his relationship with his only child, a daughter who was nine when he was fired, he said.
Upon vindication, he didn’t even read Neil Gorsuch’s dissent until the judge was nominated for the supreme court.
“Then the first thing I noticed was that in his opening reference he simply called me a trucker and didn’t use my name,” he said.
...
Since he won his case, Maddin has completed a master’s degree in science, aeronautics and unmanned aerospace systems.
He is currently looking for work “anywhere in the world”, but designing vehicles, not driving them.
posted by triggerfinger at 8:30 PM on March 23, 2017 [90 favorites]
Although since "low population density" doesn't appear to be defined I have no idea how this would work
You totally do. It might as well just say 'non-coastal'.
posted by jaduncan at 8:31 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
You totally do. It might as well just say 'non-coastal'.
posted by jaduncan at 8:31 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
(MEGA-THREAD) The plot to sell America's foreign policy for foreign oil _and_ steal an election in the bargain began at the Mayflower Hotel.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:31 PM on March 23, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:31 PM on March 23, 2017 [25 favorites]
Anybody know the context for this amendment? Because I am worried it is nothing more than a bribe to Republican states and a screwjob aimed at blue states. The average population density of red states is low.
As I understand it, the whole point of the "stability funds" is to have a healthcare slush fund for states in general. They're making it as broad as possible because they don't care where the money goes. There's like a half-dozen things states can do with the money, and it basically boils down to a slightly fancier version of "pay for medical stuff." They're adding something here to specifically say "that includes just subsidize people's premiums more because care is expensive there," but ultimately each state gets its money and has to decide what to do with it.
There's a weird contradiction in this bill (the following riff is inspired by a point Margot Sanger-Katz made earlier today, which is that there's basically no oversight on the hundreds of billions of dollars sloshing around in this bill. The GOP, the party of "fiscal responsibility," is the party that demands that every food stamp dollar be accounted for down to the level of "did a poor person buy a steak with this money?," every welfare dollar laden with draconian rules to punish poor people, but when it comes to throwing massive amounts of federal money at healthcare, whatever, anything goes.
People can get tax credits to buy basically anything resembling "health insurance," whether it meets any standards for coverage or not. States get "stability funds" to spend on whatever. States get massive checks to do whatever they want with Medicaid. It's just a pot of money and the bill doesn't really say where it has to go.
It's almost as if, and I know this sounds crazy (not), they just care about the tax cuts for rich people, and they DGAF what actually happens to the health care expenses in the bill. Sure, it would be swell if some of it eventually made its way to a insurance company CEO's paycheck or a for-profit hospital's bank account, but whatever. The feds hand it out and it goes somewhere. Mission accomplished. Except, and here's the weird thing, they just delayed some of those tax cuts a few years to fund pouring another $15 billion into these completely unregulated funds.
posted by zachlipton at 8:33 PM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
As I understand it, the whole point of the "stability funds" is to have a healthcare slush fund for states in general. They're making it as broad as possible because they don't care where the money goes. There's like a half-dozen things states can do with the money, and it basically boils down to a slightly fancier version of "pay for medical stuff." They're adding something here to specifically say "that includes just subsidize people's premiums more because care is expensive there," but ultimately each state gets its money and has to decide what to do with it.
There's a weird contradiction in this bill (the following riff is inspired by a point Margot Sanger-Katz made earlier today, which is that there's basically no oversight on the hundreds of billions of dollars sloshing around in this bill. The GOP, the party of "fiscal responsibility," is the party that demands that every food stamp dollar be accounted for down to the level of "did a poor person buy a steak with this money?," every welfare dollar laden with draconian rules to punish poor people, but when it comes to throwing massive amounts of federal money at healthcare, whatever, anything goes.
People can get tax credits to buy basically anything resembling "health insurance," whether it meets any standards for coverage or not. States get "stability funds" to spend on whatever. States get massive checks to do whatever they want with Medicaid. It's just a pot of money and the bill doesn't really say where it has to go.
It's almost as if, and I know this sounds crazy (not), they just care about the tax cuts for rich people, and they DGAF what actually happens to the health care expenses in the bill. Sure, it would be swell if some of it eventually made its way to a insurance company CEO's paycheck or a for-profit hospital's bank account, but whatever. The feds hand it out and it goes somewhere. Mission accomplished. Except, and here's the weird thing, they just delayed some of those tax cuts a few years to fund pouring another $15 billion into these completely unregulated funds.
posted by zachlipton at 8:33 PM on March 23, 2017 [18 favorites]
It's going to be a great time to open a medical consulting firm. To help states do medical stuff. Definitely not to pocket a shitload of totally unregulated cash.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:40 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:40 PM on March 23, 2017 [6 favorites]
Maybe time for a new thread? Tomorrow is gonna be a big one.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:45 PM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 8:45 PM on March 23, 2017 [7 favorites]
In fact, on looking, here's a list of states by descending population density. I've highlighted them from 25th rank on, giving us a median average split.
New Jersey, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maryland, Delaware, New York, Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, California, Illinois, Hawaii, Virginia, North Carolina, Indiana, Georgia, Michigan, South Carolina, Tennessee, New Hampshire, Kentucky, Washington, Louisiana, Wisconsin, Texas, Alabama, Missouri, West Virginia, Minnesota, Vermont, Mississippi, Arizona, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Iowa, Colorado, Maine, Oregon, Utah, Kansas, Nevada, Nebraska, Idaho, New Mexico, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana, Wyoming and Alaska.
The reader may make their own observation about the alignment of bolded and non-bolded states.
posted by jaduncan at 8:47 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
New Jersey, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maryland, Delaware, New York, Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, California, Illinois, Hawaii, Virginia, North Carolina, Indiana, Georgia, Michigan, South Carolina, Tennessee, New Hampshire, Kentucky, Washington, Louisiana, Wisconsin, Texas, Alabama, Missouri, West Virginia, Minnesota, Vermont, Mississippi, Arizona, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Iowa, Colorado, Maine, Oregon, Utah, Kansas, Nevada, Nebraska, Idaho, New Mexico, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana, Wyoming and Alaska.
The reader may make their own observation about the alignment of bolded and non-bolded states.
posted by jaduncan at 8:47 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
The other trick here is that they say they let each state decide what the essential health benefits are for plans in their state (choice! freedom!), but combine that with literally the only thing Trump knows about healthcare policy––"get rid of the lines between the states"––, and all you'll get is whatever the Delaware of healthcare is going to be selling completely unregulated plans into all 50 states. Keep that up, and there won't be any other plans, because nobody can compete with the cheap unregulated out-of-state imports.
posted by zachlipton at 8:47 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by zachlipton at 8:47 PM on March 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
so yeah seems like it's a provision that allows most red states to subsidize costs in ways disallowed for most blue states
If a state is barred from distributing funds on the basis of population density, do they have standing to sue?
Utah is low population density and California is relatively high population density. Utah would likely be given special discretion to do what they want with that money, but California would not. However, most Utahans live in the higher-density area around SLC (I presume). Relatively few live elsewhere in the state. Sure, there are places like southern Utah where the remoteness and isolation can genuinely affect costs. But for the vast majority of Utahans, it seems unlikely that population density is actually spiking their healthcare costs. But Utah getting favey-fave treatment that's denied to California, which harms the economic interests of California.
(In fact, compared to Utah, California quite arguably has more people in rural communities whose healthcare costs are significantly affected by local population density.)
Anyway, if California has standing to sue in this situation, might a court issue a ruling on what actually causes healthcare in this country to be so gosh-darn expensive?
posted by compartment at 8:48 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
If a state is barred from distributing funds on the basis of population density, do they have standing to sue?
Utah is low population density and California is relatively high population density. Utah would likely be given special discretion to do what they want with that money, but California would not. However, most Utahans live in the higher-density area around SLC (I presume). Relatively few live elsewhere in the state. Sure, there are places like southern Utah where the remoteness and isolation can genuinely affect costs. But for the vast majority of Utahans, it seems unlikely that population density is actually spiking their healthcare costs. But Utah getting favey-fave treatment that's denied to California, which harms the economic interests of California.
(In fact, compared to Utah, California quite arguably has more people in rural communities whose healthcare costs are significantly affected by local population density.)
Anyway, if California has standing to sue in this situation, might a court issue a ruling on what actually causes healthcare in this country to be so gosh-darn expensive?
posted by compartment at 8:48 PM on March 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
The #gopdnd hashtag is quite good right now.
posted by Talez at 9:04 PM on March 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
posted by Talez at 9:04 PM on March 23, 2017 [21 favorites]
People can get tax credits to buy basically anything resembling "health insurance," whether it meets any standards for coverage or not.
This anything-resembling-health-insurance will have an interesting result. The ACHA tax credits are use it or lose it. You only get the tax credit if you buy insurance. The way this will likely work in practice for many people, if they are reasonably healthy, is that they will just buy an insurance plan that exactly matches their tax credit. They may as well get it because if they don't, they get nothing but if they do, they get a cheap but crappy insurance plan absolutely for free.
You're likely to see insurance companies offering lots of insurance plans that match the credit -- $2000 for 20 year olds, $3000 for 40 year olds and $4000 for 60 year olds. These plans will be pretty worthless but an efficient and effective way to transfer public funds to private insurance companies. Ironically, you could get near 100% compliance because the plans, though worthless, are free for anyone who wants it.
posted by JackFlash at 9:11 PM on March 23, 2017 [31 favorites]
This anything-resembling-health-insurance will have an interesting result. The ACHA tax credits are use it or lose it. You only get the tax credit if you buy insurance. The way this will likely work in practice for many people, if they are reasonably healthy, is that they will just buy an insurance plan that exactly matches their tax credit. They may as well get it because if they don't, they get nothing but if they do, they get a cheap but crappy insurance plan absolutely for free.
You're likely to see insurance companies offering lots of insurance plans that match the credit -- $2000 for 20 year olds, $3000 for 40 year olds and $4000 for 60 year olds. These plans will be pretty worthless but an efficient and effective way to transfer public funds to private insurance companies. Ironically, you could get near 100% compliance because the plans, though worthless, are free for anyone who wants it.
posted by JackFlash at 9:11 PM on March 23, 2017 [31 favorites]
That Mayflower Hotel story seems dubiously sourced and highly speculative. At best. First I've heard of the author, Seth Abramson, too.
posted by spitbull at 9:19 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by spitbull at 9:19 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also I'm disinclined to believe anyone who writes an entire article in the form of masses of tweets.
posted by spitbull at 9:21 PM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 9:21 PM on March 23, 2017 [10 favorites]
"* or until all of the dissenters have been bought off with plum committee positions and/or pork barrel projects"
Good news, the GOP gutted the power of the committee system to centralize power in the Speaker, so the jobs aren't so plum anymore; and the GOP got rid of pork barrel projects. They can't buy off their dissenters or trade them something they want for a vote for something they don't want. Didn't much matter when they were unified in opposition to Democratic presidents; matters a lot now that they've hobbled their own ability to get any damn thing done!
"I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around an ethos that says:
We're not paying for your birth control.
If you do get pregnant don't even think about getting an abortion.
Once the baby comes you need to find someone very cheap to watch the baby while you get back to work.
What do you mean child care is too expensive and you can't afford it? That's something you should have thought about before you got pregnant."
I taught conservative Christian college students philosophy for several years, including ethics, including a mandatory unit on abortion. I frequently just straight-up asked them, and pushed on the contradictions until we got down to brass tacks. They were not generally interested in the ideological/free-marketer/libertarian wing of the party. What is basically came down to for most of them was that the government shouldn't be in the business of endorsing or supporting or incentivizing immoral behavior -- like extramarital sex, by making abortions or birth control available; or the unemployed having babies by paying them benefits that allowed them to remain unemployed and keep having babies in a precarious poverty situation.
A lot of them were very active in their church ministries to the same people they felt shouldn't have government help -- that was an act of mercy and grace. But the government doing the same sorts of things was seen as an endorsement of immoral choices. They felt that just like the government had an obligation to prosecute a rapist and lock him up, providing consequences for bad actions, they felt the government was obligated to not stand in the way of the natural consequences of the "bad action" of irresponsible sex.
Side note, basically none of them had a problem with married women using birth control; it was birth control for teenagers and unmarried (college-age) women paid for by the government that got them upset. If you asked about unmarried 30-something women getting government birth control they were mostly pretty shruggo because that's not the moral problem they're upset about. (Amusingly, one of our state representatives who's an ideological hardline conservative fell afoul of this gap between what "regular Republicans" and ideological leaders think when he objected to the state changing a particular rule to make IUDs more widely available -- he didn't think the state should be paying for any birth control at all ever for any reason and used the word "slut," but something like 88% of Republican women -- married white women in the suburbs! -- were furious because IUDs are disproportionately used by slightly older married women with good healthcare benefits (because of the expense and need to see a doctor), and boy did they not appreciate being called sluts.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:21 PM on March 23, 2017 [40 favorites]
Good news, the GOP gutted the power of the committee system to centralize power in the Speaker, so the jobs aren't so plum anymore; and the GOP got rid of pork barrel projects. They can't buy off their dissenters or trade them something they want for a vote for something they don't want. Didn't much matter when they were unified in opposition to Democratic presidents; matters a lot now that they've hobbled their own ability to get any damn thing done!
"I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around an ethos that says:
We're not paying for your birth control.
If you do get pregnant don't even think about getting an abortion.
Once the baby comes you need to find someone very cheap to watch the baby while you get back to work.
What do you mean child care is too expensive and you can't afford it? That's something you should have thought about before you got pregnant."
I taught conservative Christian college students philosophy for several years, including ethics, including a mandatory unit on abortion. I frequently just straight-up asked them, and pushed on the contradictions until we got down to brass tacks. They were not generally interested in the ideological/free-marketer/libertarian wing of the party. What is basically came down to for most of them was that the government shouldn't be in the business of endorsing or supporting or incentivizing immoral behavior -- like extramarital sex, by making abortions or birth control available; or the unemployed having babies by paying them benefits that allowed them to remain unemployed and keep having babies in a precarious poverty situation.
A lot of them were very active in their church ministries to the same people they felt shouldn't have government help -- that was an act of mercy and grace. But the government doing the same sorts of things was seen as an endorsement of immoral choices. They felt that just like the government had an obligation to prosecute a rapist and lock him up, providing consequences for bad actions, they felt the government was obligated to not stand in the way of the natural consequences of the "bad action" of irresponsible sex.
Side note, basically none of them had a problem with married women using birth control; it was birth control for teenagers and unmarried (college-age) women paid for by the government that got them upset. If you asked about unmarried 30-something women getting government birth control they were mostly pretty shruggo because that's not the moral problem they're upset about. (Amusingly, one of our state representatives who's an ideological hardline conservative fell afoul of this gap between what "regular Republicans" and ideological leaders think when he objected to the state changing a particular rule to make IUDs more widely available -- he didn't think the state should be paying for any birth control at all ever for any reason and used the word "slut," but something like 88% of Republican women -- married white women in the suburbs! -- were furious because IUDs are disproportionately used by slightly older married women with good healthcare benefits (because of the expense and need to see a doctor), and boy did they not appreciate being called sluts.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:21 PM on March 23, 2017 [40 favorites]
Also I'm disinclined to believe anyone who writes an entire article in the form of masses of tweets.
I really miss people writing articles on one page, with paragraphs, in sequential order.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:29 PM on March 23, 2017 [40 favorites]
I really miss people writing articles on one page, with paragraphs, in sequential order.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:29 PM on March 23, 2017 [40 favorites]
The Freedom Caucus, with its opposition to the Republican bill, is a rare example of evil being the enemy of the merely horrible.
posted by anifinder at 9:32 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by anifinder at 9:32 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
And the deeper I went down the rabbit hole of Seth Abramson the more I suspect that Mayflower story is creative writing, not journalism.
posted by spitbull at 9:35 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by spitbull at 9:35 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
These plans will be pretty worthless but an efficient and effective way to transfer public funds to private insurance companies.
That's pretty much what happened in Australia. We have universal public health care, but the government wanted to get high-income people onto private insurance to (allegedly) take pressure off the public system. The thing was, if you were young and healthy there was basically no reason to get private insurance. So they changed the tax laws to give people an incentive, and you ended up with (e.g.) cheap insurance with lousy pregnancy coverage but reimbursement for gym fees, aimed at young singles; more expensive insurance with great pregnancy cover but not much that would be attractive for seniors, and so forth. At one point people in some bands could literally claim reimbursement for sneakers- they're sport equipment, you see. But the whole point was to prop up the insurance companies, so this was wildly profitable even with the silly payments.
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:01 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
That's pretty much what happened in Australia. We have universal public health care, but the government wanted to get high-income people onto private insurance to (allegedly) take pressure off the public system. The thing was, if you were young and healthy there was basically no reason to get private insurance. So they changed the tax laws to give people an incentive, and you ended up with (e.g.) cheap insurance with lousy pregnancy coverage but reimbursement for gym fees, aimed at young singles; more expensive insurance with great pregnancy cover but not much that would be attractive for seniors, and so forth. At one point people in some bands could literally claim reimbursement for sneakers- they're sport equipment, you see. But the whole point was to prop up the insurance companies, so this was wildly profitable even with the silly payments.
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:01 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
The larger ideology is that health care is not government's job
THIS is the Number One problem in the discussion of ACA/AHCA
Health CARE is what Doctors, Nurses, Med. Techs, Hospitals, Clinics, etc. provide to Patients.
Paying for it ( currently via Health INSURANCE ) is what the government/health insurance companies do.
Unless we're talking about like the VA, which provides healthcare to vets. But that's a special case.
posted by mikelieman at 10:03 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
THIS is the Number One problem in the discussion of ACA/AHCA
Health CARE is what Doctors, Nurses, Med. Techs, Hospitals, Clinics, etc. provide to Patients.
Paying for it ( currently via Health INSURANCE ) is what the government/health insurance companies do.
Unless we're talking about like the VA, which provides healthcare to vets. But that's a special case.
posted by mikelieman at 10:03 PM on March 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Because I am worried it is nothing more than a bribe to Republican states and a screwjob aimed at blue states
It is a clear and explicit FUCK YOU to New York.
Pelosi: GOP buys votes from Upstate NY reps with 'spiteful' Medicaid change
House Republicans Turn to Upstate New York to Lure Votes for Health Bill
Andrew Cuomo is saying that hospitals in Republican districts will be looking at cuts of 10% and that taxes on middle class will go up about 25%. Hyperbole perhaps, and would he do it if he's running for reelection? I dunno.
posted by mikelieman at 10:12 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
It is a clear and explicit FUCK YOU to New York.
Pelosi: GOP buys votes from Upstate NY reps with 'spiteful' Medicaid change
House Republicans Turn to Upstate New York to Lure Votes for Health Bill
Andrew Cuomo is saying that hospitals in Republican districts will be looking at cuts of 10% and that taxes on middle class will go up about 25%. Hyperbole perhaps, and would he do it if he's running for reelection? I dunno.
posted by mikelieman at 10:12 PM on March 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Everything Is Fine With the American Health Care Act
Whatever you may or may not have heard, rest assured: Things are not in chaos. White House press secretary Sean Spicer said that the American Health Care Act (AHCA) would pass Thursday night. It will now pass Friday, or maybe not, but everything is still definitely going according to plan.posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:14 PM on March 23, 2017 [26 favorites]
He also said that there is no Plan B, but it turned out that this was just a description of the contraceptive benefits available to women under the House plan.
Dear Secret Service: I admit it, I have spent the last twenty minutes silently willing Donald Trump's head to explode. I've nearly given myself an aneurysm, I think. I might keep at it anyway. If Trump's head should happen to spontaneously explode, please come look me up, because I want full credit for that shit.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 10:27 PM on March 23, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 10:27 PM on March 23, 2017 [25 favorites]
You're likely to see insurance companies offering lots of insurance plans that match the credit -- $2000 for 20 year olds, $3000 for 40 year olds and $4000 for 60 year olds. These plans will be pretty worthless but an efficient and effective way to transfer public funds to private insurance companies. Ironically, you could get near 100% compliance because the plans, though worthless, are free for anyone who wants it.
Oh god. I just realized. This is going to lead to an incredible amount of abuse.
You have a huge bunch of tax credits which are free for the taking basically as long as: you're uninsured; and you spend the credit on something called "health insurance"; and you're not an immigrant. That's tens of millions of people (plus tens of millions more who lose their insurance without the ACA. The government has gotten rid of the definition of "health insurance" and allowed the states to race to the bottom, so there are lots of worthless plans that cost exactly as much as the tax credit, as you predict.
So, unless there's some anti-kickback rules I'm not aware of, you, an insurance company, runs around town signing people up for "free" health insurance plans, offering them gym bags, cash, poultry, drugs, whatever as incentives (you, of course, use middlemen to shield yourself from responsibility for this). You get their signature on the paperwork, mail out a plastic membership card, and magically you get a couple thousand dollars in government money. Then you just setup your benefit design so it can't pay out more than you take in, which ought to be doable with suitably lax regulation, and watch the sweet federal cash roll in.
This didn't happen with the ACA, since that law required people either pay a portion of their incomes toward premiums (so you're not signing up unless there's some value in it for you) or enroll in Medicaid (where the program is fee-for-service so the government doesn't have the perverse incentive to run around signing people up all willy-nilly). Here, it's just magic unregulated free government money. Setup a tent on the sidewalk next to the credit card guy and start hawking. The result is that the government pays out far more than expected in tax credits (because why not sign up, since it costs you nothing and they'll give you a bribe), and gets little to show from it in terms of actual health care.
This wouldn't be unprecedented, because we've seen similar situations in other government health programs where enrolling people at zero results in large chunks of cash flowing to private entities. Hospice and PACE are both fantastic, fantastic programs (I've had family members get care from excellent agencies for both fairly recently), but they can be huge targets for abuse, especially by for-profit entities, who game the system to enroll only healthy individuals and spend little on care, pocketing the cash.
(Btw, JackFlash, your policy instincts and insights in these threads are fantastic and deserve to be called out specifically. Thank you.)
posted by zachlipton at 10:32 PM on March 23, 2017 [61 favorites]
Oh god. I just realized. This is going to lead to an incredible amount of abuse.
You have a huge bunch of tax credits which are free for the taking basically as long as: you're uninsured; and you spend the credit on something called "health insurance"; and you're not an immigrant. That's tens of millions of people (plus tens of millions more who lose their insurance without the ACA. The government has gotten rid of the definition of "health insurance" and allowed the states to race to the bottom, so there are lots of worthless plans that cost exactly as much as the tax credit, as you predict.
So, unless there's some anti-kickback rules I'm not aware of, you, an insurance company, runs around town signing people up for "free" health insurance plans, offering them gym bags, cash, poultry, drugs, whatever as incentives (you, of course, use middlemen to shield yourself from responsibility for this). You get their signature on the paperwork, mail out a plastic membership card, and magically you get a couple thousand dollars in government money. Then you just setup your benefit design so it can't pay out more than you take in, which ought to be doable with suitably lax regulation, and watch the sweet federal cash roll in.
This didn't happen with the ACA, since that law required people either pay a portion of their incomes toward premiums (so you're not signing up unless there's some value in it for you) or enroll in Medicaid (where the program is fee-for-service so the government doesn't have the perverse incentive to run around signing people up all willy-nilly). Here, it's just magic unregulated free government money. Setup a tent on the sidewalk next to the credit card guy and start hawking. The result is that the government pays out far more than expected in tax credits (because why not sign up, since it costs you nothing and they'll give you a bribe), and gets little to show from it in terms of actual health care.
This wouldn't be unprecedented, because we've seen similar situations in other government health programs where enrolling people at zero results in large chunks of cash flowing to private entities. Hospice and PACE are both fantastic, fantastic programs (I've had family members get care from excellent agencies for both fairly recently), but they can be huge targets for abuse, especially by for-profit entities, who game the system to enroll only healthy individuals and spend little on care, pocketing the cash.
(Btw, JackFlash, your policy instincts and insights in these threads are fantastic and deserve to be called out specifically. Thank you.)
posted by zachlipton at 10:32 PM on March 23, 2017 [61 favorites]
And the deeper I went down the rabbit hole of Seth Abramson the more I suspect that Mayflower story is creative writing, not journalism.
Completely agree spitbull. Abramson has a sketchy history. And FFS if you have the goods write a well sourced article instead of a MEGA THREAD tweet manifesto. Is he on to something? I don't know but if he is he should back up his claims in a major publication. Until then...blerg.
posted by futz at 10:32 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Completely agree spitbull. Abramson has a sketchy history. And FFS if you have the goods write a well sourced article instead of a MEGA THREAD tweet manifesto. Is he on to something? I don't know but if he is he should back up his claims in a major publication. Until then...blerg.
posted by futz at 10:32 PM on March 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
witchen: But the joke's on them! Because the best workaround my parochial schoolmates found was to have unprotected anal sex (Satisfies their boyfriend's sense of entitlement, no pregnancy risk.
Are you familiar with the term 'saddlebacking',? Cos that's what it is.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:41 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
Are you familiar with the term 'saddlebacking',? Cos that's what it is.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:41 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
And today Zach learned why basic income is a right-wing wet dream.
posted by Yowser at 10:50 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 10:50 PM on March 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
March 19, 2017 21:32 - "The Big Deal this week is Neil Gorsuch's nomination hearings."
Ah, March 19th. Such innocent times.
posted by jaduncan at 10:56 PM on March 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
Ah, March 19th. Such innocent times.
posted by jaduncan at 10:56 PM on March 23, 2017 [19 favorites]
So is Sessions gone for committing perjury yet?
posted by Yowser at 10:58 PM on March 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 10:58 PM on March 23, 2017 [17 favorites]
It's the same business model as some online charter schools: get parents to enroll their kid for free; cash government check; provide little in return (‘It is literally as if the kid did not go to school for an entire year’); profit.
Pretty much any system in which people "buy" something from a for-profit company with "free" government money and don't have to put any of their own in is going to be a massive target for abuse, especially when it's pared with gutting all regulations and a hands-off approach to enforcement.
posted by zachlipton at 10:58 PM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
Pretty much any system in which people "buy" something from a for-profit company with "free" government money and don't have to put any of their own in is going to be a massive target for abuse, especially when it's pared with gutting all regulations and a hands-off approach to enforcement.
posted by zachlipton at 10:58 PM on March 23, 2017 [14 favorites]
GOP Lawmaker: God Can Use Rape And Incest To 'Bring Beauty From Ashes'
Democrats challenged him on that in a debate on the floor of the state’s House of Representatives.
“Is rape the will of God?” asked Rep. Cory Williams.
“If you read the Bible, there’s actually a couple circumstances where that happened and the Lord uses all circumstances,” Faught replied. “I mean, you can go down that path, but it’s a reality, unfortunately.”
“Is incest the will of God?” Williams asked.
“Same answer,” Faught replied. “Doesn’t deal with this bill.”
Williams fired back that his questions did deal with the bill.
“You won’t make any exceptions for rape, you won’t make any exceptions for incest in this and you are proffering divine intervention as the reason why you won’t do that,” he said. “I think it is very important. This body wants to know, myself personally, whether you believe rape and incest are actually the will of God.”
Faught said:
“It’s a great question to ask, and, obviously if it happens in someone’s life, it may not be the best thing that ever happened. But, so you’re saying that God is not sovereign with every activity that happens in someone’s life and can’t use anything and everything in someone’s life, and I disagree with that.”
KFOR, a local NBC station, said the bill passed the House and now goes to the state’s Senate.
Under the bill, doctors could have their licenses suspended or revoked, face fines of up to $100,000 and get sued by women who have abortions.
Faught also sent the station a written statement.
“Life, no matter how it is conceived, is valuable and something to be protected. Let me be clear, God never approves of rape or incest,” the station quoted him as saying. “However, even in the worst circumstances, God can bring beauty from ashes.”
Wonder what evangelical Oklahoma Senator Ralph Shortey would think of this? Oh wait, he resigned Wednesday due to charges relating to child prostitution with a 17 year old boy.
posted by futz at 11:31 PM on March 23, 2017 [46 favorites]
Democrats challenged him on that in a debate on the floor of the state’s House of Representatives.
“Is rape the will of God?” asked Rep. Cory Williams.
“If you read the Bible, there’s actually a couple circumstances where that happened and the Lord uses all circumstances,” Faught replied. “I mean, you can go down that path, but it’s a reality, unfortunately.”
“Is incest the will of God?” Williams asked.
“Same answer,” Faught replied. “Doesn’t deal with this bill.”
Williams fired back that his questions did deal with the bill.
“You won’t make any exceptions for rape, you won’t make any exceptions for incest in this and you are proffering divine intervention as the reason why you won’t do that,” he said. “I think it is very important. This body wants to know, myself personally, whether you believe rape and incest are actually the will of God.”
Faught said:
“It’s a great question to ask, and, obviously if it happens in someone’s life, it may not be the best thing that ever happened. But, so you’re saying that God is not sovereign with every activity that happens in someone’s life and can’t use anything and everything in someone’s life, and I disagree with that.”
KFOR, a local NBC station, said the bill passed the House and now goes to the state’s Senate.
Under the bill, doctors could have their licenses suspended or revoked, face fines of up to $100,000 and get sued by women who have abortions.
Faught also sent the station a written statement.
“Life, no matter how it is conceived, is valuable and something to be protected. Let me be clear, God never approves of rape or incest,” the station quoted him as saying. “However, even in the worst circumstances, God can bring beauty from ashes.”
Wonder what evangelical Oklahoma Senator Ralph Shortey would think of this? Oh wait, he resigned Wednesday due to charges relating to child prostitution with a 17 year old boy.
posted by futz at 11:31 PM on March 23, 2017 [46 favorites]
My Senator (Casey-PA) is not supporting Gorsuch's nomination to SCOTUS
yesterday morning was the first time I've ever called one of my representatives. it was bob casey, and I left a voicemail specifically asking him to vote against Gorsuch and force the Republicans' hands.
so that feels pretty good huh :)
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 12:06 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]
yesterday morning was the first time I've ever called one of my representatives. it was bob casey, and I left a voicemail specifically asking him to vote against Gorsuch and force the Republicans' hands.
so that feels pretty good huh :)
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 12:06 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]
I was a clinic walker in the bad years, when crazy ass xtians were allowed right up to the door, and I was regularly hit, spit on, and physically attacked. I've gotten stiches, I've got scars, these people are fucking nuts. I wore motorcycle leathers not just because it made me look scarier than my hobbit size self normally could, but because I was expecting those mobs of frothing lunatics to contain knives among them. And I know for a goddamn fact that they would have let any one of us bleed out in front of them and call it gods will.
Sure, are there some republicans that actually do care about the situations that may lead to abortion? Absolutely. But, they, like other noninsane Christians aren't the ones beating small women with signs, or passing punitive laws.
Scratch the surface of guys like Faught, and you'll find woman haters who ill bet dimes to dollars are date rapists or worse.
I'm so tired of this fight. I hit the streets to protect clinics almost 40 years ago you guys. For more than 3/4 of my life I have thrown myself in front of these lunatics. And now I find and help run and underground railroad to help women get a medical procedure that should be easy, fast and cheap. Now it's days of waiting, and thousands of dollars.
And do these fetus worshippers do a goddamn thing to help actual live babies and the women who have them? Of course not, those women are sluts and they and their slutty offspring should go die in the street as an example.
I've lost hope that we can do anything but create an underground. Seriously, abortion is not going to be available within 5 years if things don't radically change.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:17 AM on March 24, 2017 [101 favorites]
Sure, are there some republicans that actually do care about the situations that may lead to abortion? Absolutely. But, they, like other noninsane Christians aren't the ones beating small women with signs, or passing punitive laws.
Scratch the surface of guys like Faught, and you'll find woman haters who ill bet dimes to dollars are date rapists or worse.
I'm so tired of this fight. I hit the streets to protect clinics almost 40 years ago you guys. For more than 3/4 of my life I have thrown myself in front of these lunatics. And now I find and help run and underground railroad to help women get a medical procedure that should be easy, fast and cheap. Now it's days of waiting, and thousands of dollars.
And do these fetus worshippers do a goddamn thing to help actual live babies and the women who have them? Of course not, those women are sluts and they and their slutty offspring should go die in the street as an example.
I've lost hope that we can do anything but create an underground. Seriously, abortion is not going to be available within 5 years if things don't radically change.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:17 AM on March 24, 2017 [101 favorites]
A random moment of brightness regarding 'taking the oil': telling someone that I'm impressed that finally the US has a leader who is interested in using state representatives to forcibly seize and nationalise the means of production.
It was entertaining.
posted by jaduncan at 1:00 AM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]
It was entertaining.
posted by jaduncan at 1:00 AM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]
Secret Life of Gravy: I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around an ethos that says: We're not paying for your birth control. If you do get pregnant don't even think about getting an abortion. (...)
Please don't. You'll sprain something. And who's going to pay for that?
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:48 AM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]
Please don't. You'll sprain something. And who's going to pay for that?
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:48 AM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]
I think 'internal consistency' is just way too much to ask for anyone in the Republican party.
posted by flatluigi at 3:30 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by flatluigi at 3:30 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
Whip count: As of 11 pm last night, The Hill puts No votes at 34. The max Ryan can afford is 22.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:00 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 4:00 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]
Well I'm sure they won't find two more fuckers in the house to pass this heap of shit.
posted by ryanrs at 4:17 AM on March 24, 2017
posted by ryanrs at 4:17 AM on March 24, 2017
That's a 12 vote gap, not 2.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:21 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 4:21 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
Oh, ok. That's heartening.
(until I remember they oppose it because the bill isn't shitty enough)
posted by ryanrs at 4:37 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
(until I remember they oppose it because the bill isn't shitty enough)
posted by ryanrs at 4:37 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
They LOST votes from the afternoon?
*cackling intensifies*
posted by schadenfrau at 4:41 AM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]
*cackling intensifies*
posted by schadenfrau at 4:41 AM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]
This is feeling a lot like 9 pm on November 8, 2016.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:46 AM on March 24, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:46 AM on March 24, 2017 [26 favorites]
Krugman: "Some people seem startled both by the awfulness of Mr. Ryan’s plan and by the raw dishonesty of his sales pitch. But why? Everything we’ve seen from Mr. Ryan amid the health care debacle — everything, that is, except the press coverage — has been completely consistent with his previous career."
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [22 favorites]
Okay, so, following up on my own post wondering what possible upside there could be in the House passing this thing:
Dem super PACs polled 20 GOP House districts, out this AM: reps' approval #s go from +12 to -21 when voters told of support for AHCA..... voters also go from +14 likelihood to re-elect their R rep to +13 likelihood to elect a D challenger when told of Rs' AHCA support
posted by saturday_morning at 4:54 AM on March 24, 2017 [43 favorites]
Dem super PACs polled 20 GOP House districts, out this AM: reps' approval #s go from +12 to -21 when voters told of support for AHCA..... voters also go from +14 likelihood to re-elect their R rep to +13 likelihood to elect a D challenger when told of Rs' AHCA support
posted by saturday_morning at 4:54 AM on March 24, 2017 [43 favorites]
They LOST votes from the afternoon?
*cackling intensifies*
It's not at all suprising. If Trump tried to browbeat my colleagues I'd switch my vote against him because fuck you, jackoff. Imagine all the furious yelling and demanding and threatening of Congressmembers who are totally secure in their districts? Oh, you're going to primary me? You, the most unpopular President in 100 years? I'm the guy they sent in to primary the other guy!
Trump is all stick and no carrot here.
posted by dis_integration at 4:56 AM on March 24, 2017 [21 favorites]
*cackling intensifies*
It's not at all suprising. If Trump tried to browbeat my colleagues I'd switch my vote against him because fuck you, jackoff. Imagine all the furious yelling and demanding and threatening of Congressmembers who are totally secure in their districts? Oh, you're going to primary me? You, the most unpopular President in 100 years? I'm the guy they sent in to primary the other guy!
Trump is all stick and no carrot here.
posted by dis_integration at 4:56 AM on March 24, 2017 [21 favorites]
saturday_morning, I think Dems could see a lot of that benefit even without the bill passing ("Congressman Bob Smith voted to take away YOUR healthcare!"), and without risking killing a bunch of people.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:02 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 5:02 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
I'm not sure where this transcript is from, but here Mulvaney suggests that women should move to a state that offers them maternity care, or try and lobby their own states to allow them maternity care.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:10 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:10 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
For sure. Don't get me wrong, I'm rooting against the bill. I'm just trying to find a way to still want to wake up tomorrow if it passes the vote today.
posted by saturday_morning at 5:13 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 5:13 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
Intel chairman says he won't tell top Intel Dem who his source on Trump surveillance is
I hope Schiff and crew go ballistic on Nunes. Nunes doing this is the act of a desperate man. This is a yuge deal imo.
I agree. The Republicans are going to be desperate to hold on to Congress in 2018, because if the Democrats gain control of even one chamber of Congress, they get subpoena authority to investigate these shenanigans, which seem obviously to be tainting not only the Trump Administration but also Congressional Republicans.
posted by Gelatin at 5:26 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
I hope Schiff and crew go ballistic on Nunes. Nunes doing this is the act of a desperate man. This is a yuge deal imo.
I agree. The Republicans are going to be desperate to hold on to Congress in 2018, because if the Democrats gain control of even one chamber of Congress, they get subpoena authority to investigate these shenanigans, which seem obviously to be tainting not only the Trump Administration but also Congressional Republicans.
posted by Gelatin at 5:26 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
Intel chairman says he won't tell top Intel Dem who his source on Trump surveillance is
He won't even deny it was the Trump administration itself.
posted by PenDevil at 5:29 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
He won't even deny it was the Trump administration itself.
posted by PenDevil at 5:29 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
This seems to be the most current whip count, which has AHCA going down with at least 15 Teahadists and 12 "moderates" voting no, 5 more than required to kill it. The question is how many of those flipped between last night and today.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:33 AM on March 24, 2017
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:33 AM on March 24, 2017
saturday_morning, I think Dems could see a lot of that benefit even without the bill passing
No, voters are fickle and their memory is short. This thing is going to get voted down in flames and in two years most people who aren't us won't even remember the details.
posted by corb at 5:33 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
No, voters are fickle and their memory is short. This thing is going to get voted down in flames and in two years most people who aren't us won't even remember the details.
posted by corb at 5:33 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
Whatever it was that rattled Nunes, at least from all appearances, doesn't seem to have rattled the Whitehouse. Given the number of well-sourced kiss-and-tells about internal WH drama, shouldn't we be reading something leaked to the WaPo about the reactions by now?
posted by klarck at 5:35 AM on March 24, 2017
posted by klarck at 5:35 AM on March 24, 2017
This is feeling a lot like 9 pm on November 8, 2016.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:35 AM on March 24, 2017 [28 favorites]
@TheRickWilson: Don't be shocked if there's some last-minute drama and a face-saving compromise. It's the Cult, after all.Keep calling your Representatives.
@Redistrict: A lot of Dems have spiked the football in last 12 hrs. But we've seen this before. Majorities have ways of finding the votes.
@ThePlumLineGS: A lot of talk about alleged Dem/lib "triumphalism" about beating GOP bill. I'm hearing otherwise -- that Ds think outcome very uncertain
posted by zombieflanders at 5:35 AM on March 24, 2017 [28 favorites]
And now WaPo's Robert Costa and NBC's Brad Jaffy are saying the same thing. Remember, all the House has to do is pass the bill. The Senate may be able to replace the bill with their own, pass it, and send it back to the House. Some think that this may actually be in the works.
It's possible, maybe even likely, that something has changed in the last several hours. DC offices open in 20 minutes, keep calling your representatives.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:43 AM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's possible, maybe even likely, that something has changed in the last several hours. DC offices open in 20 minutes, keep calling your representatives.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:43 AM on March 24, 2017 [10 favorites]
Oh hey, the shit-gibbon has woken up, and it seems like this morning's line is that failure will be the Freedom Caucus' fault. (Probably the most logical thing he's said in ages.)
@realDonaldTrump: After seven horrible years of ObamaCare (skyrocketing premiums & deductibles, bad healthcare), this is finally your chance for a great plan!
@realDonaldTrump: The irony is that the Freedom Caucus, which is very pro-life and against Planned Parenthood, allows P.P. to continue if they stop this plan!
posted by jammer at 5:44 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
@realDonaldTrump: After seven horrible years of ObamaCare (skyrocketing premiums & deductibles, bad healthcare), this is finally your chance for a great plan!
@realDonaldTrump: The irony is that the Freedom Caucus, which is very pro-life and against Planned Parenthood, allows P.P. to continue if they stop this plan!
posted by jammer at 5:44 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
Is there anything useful for those of us to do with Dem house reps? (I mean, regarding this bill in particular.)
posted by nat at 5:44 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by nat at 5:44 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
The way for R congresspeople to fulfill their "fuck Obamacare" screeching without being blamed for the consequences by any of their constituents is to pass this bill and then blame the Dems and the Senate for its failure to go any further.
So that's what I'll assume will happen. Last minute scrambling, impossibly shitty bill, DOA in the Senate.
posted by lydhre at 5:44 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
So that's what I'll assume will happen. Last minute scrambling, impossibly shitty bill, DOA in the Senate.
posted by lydhre at 5:44 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
You guys: it might still pass. Please do not assume it is DOA anywhere.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:56 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:56 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]
It is a clear and explicit FUCK YOU to New York.
It's more a way to put NY Reps in a bind -- you probably want to vote against it, but to do that you'll also have to vote against 'fixing' NY's weird system of medicaid funding that conservatives have always hated.
Andrew Cuomo is saying that hospitals in Republican districts will be looking at cuts of 10% and that taxes on middle class will go up about 25%. Hyperbole perhaps, and would he do it if he's running for reelection? I dunno.
He's just catastrophizing as political theater, which is still an important thing to do. From what I'm reading, the most likely thing that would happen would be that counties would lose their share of sales tax revenue, which would go directly to the state instead. So your sales tax would remain the same, your property taxes would go down because it wouldn't be paying for medicaid, but your tax bill would also *increase* to pay for stuff the county had been doing with the sales tax money.
The expected result is that suburban-ish downstate counties -- Westchester, Nassau, Suffolk...-- get fucked because they lose a ton of sales tax revenue but never were paying much for medicaid. Good job, gopers.
(this gets complicated because counties are less important in NY than in most states; the main unit of local government is the "town," which is just a geographical subdivision of the county, not a conurbation, or the various urban governments)
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:57 AM on March 24, 2017
It's more a way to put NY Reps in a bind -- you probably want to vote against it, but to do that you'll also have to vote against 'fixing' NY's weird system of medicaid funding that conservatives have always hated.
Andrew Cuomo is saying that hospitals in Republican districts will be looking at cuts of 10% and that taxes on middle class will go up about 25%. Hyperbole perhaps, and would he do it if he's running for reelection? I dunno.
He's just catastrophizing as political theater, which is still an important thing to do. From what I'm reading, the most likely thing that would happen would be that counties would lose their share of sales tax revenue, which would go directly to the state instead. So your sales tax would remain the same, your property taxes would go down because it wouldn't be paying for medicaid, but your tax bill would also *increase* to pay for stuff the county had been doing with the sales tax money.
The expected result is that suburban-ish downstate counties -- Westchester, Nassau, Suffolk...-- get fucked because they lose a ton of sales tax revenue but never were paying much for medicaid. Good job, gopers.
(this gets complicated because counties are less important in NY than in most states; the main unit of local government is the "town," which is just a geographical subdivision of the county, not a conurbation, or the various urban governments)
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:57 AM on March 24, 2017
The "undecided" Republican congressman in my state is not in my district, which I did point out, when I left a message yesterday asking him to not support the bill.
Seeing the spreadsheet posted above, motivated me to look up his winning vote margin last November: it was much less than the number of people in his district who would lose coverage if the bill passes. So I called again this morning to point that out.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:59 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]
Seeing the spreadsheet posted above, motivated me to look up his winning vote margin last November: it was much less than the number of people in his district who would lose coverage if the bill passes. So I called again this morning to point that out.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:59 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]
The salutatorian of the class of 2017 came to him in tears because she had to turn down a full college scholarship because she was brought to America by her parents when she was two years old.
What a waste.
posted by Gelatin at 6:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]
What a waste.
posted by Gelatin at 6:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]
You guys: it might still pass. Please do not assume it is DOA anywhere.
You're right, I hear you. But I do think that's what the Rs are going to use to justify it to themselves. If this bill actually hits, the 2018 midterms will be devastating for the reps that passed it. At a minimum, 24 million without coverage are 24 million people that can, and probably will, turn against the Rs for good. At some level the congresspeople have to know this, especially given the poll saturday_morning linked upthread.
posted by lydhre at 6:18 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
You're right, I hear you. But I do think that's what the Rs are going to use to justify it to themselves. If this bill actually hits, the 2018 midterms will be devastating for the reps that passed it. At a minimum, 24 million without coverage are 24 million people that can, and probably will, turn against the Rs for good. At some level the congresspeople have to know this, especially given the poll saturday_morning linked upthread.
posted by lydhre at 6:18 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
These amazing threads move very fast over alot of ground so I tried to consolidate something about the present shitstain headlining in this trainwreck.
Where there is smoke there is fire so here´s some gasoline.
I had a little dig around about the dodgy Mr Manafort
who at one time was Oleg Deripaskas the Aluminum king´s buddy.
Deripaska had been refused a US visa because of Russian Mob connections and Manafort tried to resolve this.
Manafort´s political shenagigans go back to the Reagan Era when he and Roger Stone had a lobbying firm.
Business insider call Manafort a Republican operative and international 'gun for hire'.
Ivanka and Jared are Manafort fans.
(Also can we have a new thread soon please)
posted by adamvasco at 6:19 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]
Where there is smoke there is fire so here´s some gasoline.
I had a little dig around about the dodgy Mr Manafort
who at one time was Oleg Deripaskas the Aluminum king´s buddy.
Deripaska had been refused a US visa because of Russian Mob connections and Manafort tried to resolve this.
Manafort´s political shenagigans go back to the Reagan Era when he and Roger Stone had a lobbying firm.
Business insider call Manafort a Republican operative and international 'gun for hire'.
Ivanka and Jared are Manafort fans.
(Also can we have a new thread soon please)
posted by adamvasco at 6:19 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]
Adam Jentleson, Senior Strategist at Center for American Progress and former Deputy Chief of Staff for Harry Reid, has a new project, The Moscow Project, which includes:
-Steele dossier, annotated w/Genius
-Timeline
-Profiles
You can contribute by helping annotate with attributed sources, and/or submit via confidential email.
posted by chris24 at 6:24 AM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]
-Steele dossier, annotated w/Genius
-Timeline
-Profiles
You can contribute by helping annotate with attributed sources, and/or submit via confidential email.
posted by chris24 at 6:24 AM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]
witchen: But the joke's on them! Because the best workaround my parochial schoolmates found was to have unprotected anal sex (Satisfies their boyfriend's sense of entitlement, no pregnancy risk.
There is a funny NSFW song dedicated to this phenomenon - The Loophole
posted by mikepop at 6:24 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]
There is a funny NSFW song dedicated to this phenomenon - The Loophole
posted by mikepop at 6:24 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]
zachlipton: [Nunes] sure rushed to hold a press conference though.
Maybe someone could tell him that he's now the Director of Emergency Press Conferences, and tell him that it's a much more prestigious position than chairman of the United States House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.
posted by filthy light thief at 6:29 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
Maybe someone could tell him that he's now the Director of Emergency Press Conferences, and tell him that it's a much more prestigious position than chairman of the United States House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.
posted by filthy light thief at 6:29 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
One thing that is interesting (or would be, if we weren't talking about real lives here) is that we'll probably see a bandwagon effect one way or the other. If a few likely No votes actually get cast as Yes, your calculus as a fence sitter becomes, "Well, it's gonna pass anyway, may as well vote Yes - at least this way I won't have Trump all over my ass for four years."
On the other hand, if it looks like it will fall short, you'll probably see a fair number of boderline people flip to No - why be on record as voting for a highly unpopular bill that is already doomed?
Basically, no one wants to be the last guy to die for a mistake. No one wants to be Marjorie Margolies-Mezvinsky.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:35 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
On the other hand, if it looks like it will fall short, you'll probably see a fair number of boderline people flip to No - why be on record as voting for a highly unpopular bill that is already doomed?
Basically, no one wants to be the last guy to die for a mistake. No one wants to be Marjorie Margolies-Mezvinsky.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:35 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
zachlipton: After an Immigration Raid, a City's Students Vanish
Here's Las Cruces, New Mexico in Google Maps. It's about 40 miles to the US/Mexico border, and it's one of three communities in southern NM where visitors from Mexico can travel without their acquiring an I-94 “Permiso,” an effort to stimulate the economies in these almost-border towns.
Fun fact: there's a bi-national school coordination in New Mexico, where kids travel north from Chihuahua into NM every school day.
posted by filthy light thief at 6:40 AM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]
Here's Las Cruces, New Mexico in Google Maps. It's about 40 miles to the US/Mexico border, and it's one of three communities in southern NM where visitors from Mexico can travel without their acquiring an I-94 “Permiso,” an effort to stimulate the economies in these almost-border towns.
Fun fact: there's a bi-national school coordination in New Mexico, where kids travel north from Chihuahua into NM every school day.
posted by filthy light thief at 6:40 AM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]
If this bill actually hits, the 2018 midterms will be devastating for the reps that passed it. At a minimum, 24 million without coverage are 24 million people that can, and probably will, turn against the Rs for good.
When are these people ever held responsible for any of the shit they do? They will fuck over their own voters, and those voters will cheerfully line up to be fucked over some more.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:40 AM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]
When are these people ever held responsible for any of the shit they do? They will fuck over their own voters, and those voters will cheerfully line up to be fucked over some more.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:40 AM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]
For those who enjoy comparing Trump/GOP/Ryancare with Arrested Development, this twitter thread is a thing of beauty.
posted by chaoticgood at 6:42 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by chaoticgood at 6:42 AM on March 24, 2017 [14 favorites]
At a minimum, 24 million without coverage are 24 million people that can, and probably will, turn against the Rs for good.
We can't rely on this either. We just saw that policy has no effect on election outcomes. Republicans are doing pretty much exactly what they campaigned on, notwithstanding Trump's promises of "better". Congressional Republicans have been saying the same things as always. The threat of losing their care wasn't enough to motivate those people to vote Democrat in November 2016. In two years Republicans can cry, "but the babies" and "look at those Mexicans" again and there's no reason to believe it won't work just as well.
Republican voters have been voting against their own interests for decades, passing this won't change either, not without real Democratic plans to sell in the alternative and compelling candidates to message them.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:43 AM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]
We can't rely on this either. We just saw that policy has no effect on election outcomes. Republicans are doing pretty much exactly what they campaigned on, notwithstanding Trump's promises of "better". Congressional Republicans have been saying the same things as always. The threat of losing their care wasn't enough to motivate those people to vote Democrat in November 2016. In two years Republicans can cry, "but the babies" and "look at those Mexicans" again and there's no reason to believe it won't work just as well.
Republican voters have been voting against their own interests for decades, passing this won't change either, not without real Democratic plans to sell in the alternative and compelling candidates to message them.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:43 AM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]
Still waiting for someone, anyone, to sketch out for me why facts and good governance should have any bearing on Republicans? Is there any data to support the notion that they matter? What Republicans have lost power for being too evil? Nixon? Is that all we have?
posted by Shutter at 6:49 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Shutter at 6:49 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
Four hours of debate, one package, no amendment proposals allowed.. We should all know whether to drink in celebration or despair by happy hour.
posted by mikepop at 6:51 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by mikepop at 6:51 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
@samsteinhp
We don’t have legislative language for you
We don’t have a CBO score for you
This thing polls at 17%
The Senate won’t pass it
Vote yes
And it seems at least some in the WH are hoping it fails so they can blame Paul Ryan and not have to take responsibility for the results of this shitty bill.
@JohnJHarwood
senior WH aide, asked if decisive health care defeat today is best for Team Trump: "100%"
posted by chris24 at 6:51 AM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]
We don’t have legislative language for you
We don’t have a CBO score for you
This thing polls at 17%
The Senate won’t pass it
Vote yes
And it seems at least some in the WH are hoping it fails so they can blame Paul Ryan and not have to take responsibility for the results of this shitty bill.
@JohnJHarwood
senior WH aide, asked if decisive health care defeat today is best for Team Trump: "100%"
posted by chris24 at 6:51 AM on March 24, 2017 [13 favorites]
I don't trust the Republicans to not vote against their own theoretical interests (that is pretty much the definition of a Republican voter) but the AHCA is different in that it REMOVES insurance that people already had. It is not an ideological position. It is not a philosophical position. It is not even fuck-you-got-mine-ism. 24 million people who had insurance won't have it anymore, all because of the AHCA.
People will feel it, and they will feel it personally, and people will hurt. They might not vote D, but they're not going to accept the same R fucks who took it away. Look at the current support for the ACA: once people realize what it is and what they'll lose, they change their tune.
None of this is any comfort to the millions who will DIE if the AHCA is enacted but it would be a disaster for the Rs going forward. I hope enough of them know this.
posted by lydhre at 6:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]
People will feel it, and they will feel it personally, and people will hurt. They might not vote D, but they're not going to accept the same R fucks who took it away. Look at the current support for the ACA: once people realize what it is and what they'll lose, they change their tune.
None of this is any comfort to the millions who will DIE if the AHCA is enacted but it would be a disaster for the Rs going forward. I hope enough of them know this.
posted by lydhre at 6:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]
They are debating the rule for AHCA. It's HRes 228, but it's not published online yet so I can't tell what they will bring up.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
What Republicans have lost power for being too evil? Nixon? Is that all we have?
The Watergate investigation required Democratic control of Congress.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]
The Watergate investigation required Democratic control of Congress.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [27 favorites]
Unless they didn't actually win legitimately, which isn't impossible (we literally can't really know since the problem with the vulnerable election software is that hacks aren't traceable). If that's what happened, the assumptions for any reasoning about future political strategy is garbage.
posted by saulgoodman at 6:53 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by saulgoodman at 6:53 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
If this bill actually hits, the 2018 midterms will be devastating for the reps that passed it. At a minimum, 24 million without coverage are 24 million people that can, and probably will, turn against the Rs for good.
We can't rely on this either. We just saw that policy has no effect on election outcomes.
Another problem is that the bill's provisions take effect over time, and the near-term effects might not be quite as politically toxic as the long-term ones. Most of those millions of new uninsured won't be involuntarily uninsured come November 2018; it'll mostly be young people who decide not to buy. The people who get priced out will get priced out later. Conveniently.
Of course that was all based on the CBO from two overhauls ago, when essential health benefits were still a thing, so who the hell even knows now.
posted by saturday_morning at 6:55 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
We can't rely on this either. We just saw that policy has no effect on election outcomes.
Another problem is that the bill's provisions take effect over time, and the near-term effects might not be quite as politically toxic as the long-term ones. Most of those millions of new uninsured won't be involuntarily uninsured come November 2018; it'll mostly be young people who decide not to buy. The people who get priced out will get priced out later. Conveniently.
Of course that was all based on the CBO from two overhauls ago, when essential health benefits were still a thing, so who the hell even knows now.
posted by saturday_morning at 6:55 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm not sure where this transcript is from, but here Mulvaney suggests that women should move to a state that offers them maternity care, or try and lobby their own states to allow them maternity care.
Here's the video. I love how it's perfectly reasonably to ask low-income pregnant women to "find a way to change the state you live in" to get basic maternity care, but DON'T YOU DARE ASK A COAL MINER TO DO LITERALLY ANY OTHER JOB, YOU AMERICA-HATING TERRORIST!
posted by melissasaurus at 6:55 AM on March 24, 2017 [115 favorites]
Here's the video. I love how it's perfectly reasonably to ask low-income pregnant women to "find a way to change the state you live in" to get basic maternity care, but DON'T YOU DARE ASK A COAL MINER TO DO LITERALLY ANY OTHER JOB, YOU AMERICA-HATING TERRORIST!
posted by melissasaurus at 6:55 AM on March 24, 2017 [115 favorites]
rdr: I don't understand. What is Trump, through Mulvaney, trying to accomplish here? Is this like threatening to walk away from a used car salesman?
He's the used car salesman here, and he ran out of tricks and freebies, so he's out of ideas (and clearly out of his league).
Also, he's probably pretty tired from winning. And pretending to drive a big truck.
posted by filthy light thief at 6:55 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
He's the used car salesman here, and he ran out of tricks and freebies, so he's out of ideas (and clearly out of his league).
Also, he's probably pretty tired from winning. And pretending to drive a big truck.
posted by filthy light thief at 6:55 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
I love how it's perfectly reasonably to ask low-income pregnant women to "find a way to change the state you live in" to get basic maternity care, but DON'T YOU DARE ASK A COAL MINER TO DO LITERALLY ANY OTHER JOB, YOU AMERICA-HATING TERRORIST!
See, they were born a coal miner, that's what God made them, they couldn't help it. Getting pregnant is a choice which must have consequences.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]
See, they were born a coal miner, that's what God made them, they couldn't help it. Getting pregnant is a choice which must have consequences.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:58 AM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]
Amend it to "being born female is a choice which must have consequences" and you've explained the Republican's position on women pretty succinctly.
posted by lydhre at 7:00 AM on March 24, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 7:00 AM on March 24, 2017 [26 favorites]
Also, wasn't there a big loss at the midterms after Bush did all that stumping against Social Security?
I really think "Republicans can be totally evil forever and no one will ever vote against them no matter what happens" does not line up very well with American history or political history generally. It's difficult to reverse big political trends, and it doesn't happen overnight, but we wouldn't have any of the labor or civil rights victories that we do now if the rule was just "fuck everyone over forever, this will never make you unpopular".
I mean, if our historical narrative is "evil always wins because people love evil", we should just go tend our own gardens - it doesn't make sense to break our hearts in a struggle that can't be won. But I don't think history bears this out.
Progressive forces in the US have had monstrous opponents before - people who were, frankly, morally worse, more competent and backed by more institutional power than the Trump administration.
What I'm saying is that we need to buckle down and think of all the heroic Americans who have gone before - all the various people who did work of the civil rights struggle, for instance; AIDS activists; Wobblies and other radical labor organizers; abolitionists; farm labor organizers. We've been thrown into heroic times that we never wanted, but it's not new and it's not impossible.
Lately I've been reading: a book about fashion during the occupation of France, some Italian anti-fascist novels, some stuff about Weimar and a whole heap of "First War With Voldemort" fan fiction. I find it comforting to remember that people have faced these bad times before, and they belted up and fought the forces of evil even though it was hard and costly and they took losses.
We've got to try to live in the heroic mode now, I think - not in the sense of "let's storm the capitol" but in the sense of "I am acting for history and for what is right, even knowing that these are bad times and we will take losses". The only way to conceptualize these times that works for me is that we are struggling against evil, and history will remember.
posted by Frowner at 7:04 AM on March 24, 2017 [56 favorites]
I really think "Republicans can be totally evil forever and no one will ever vote against them no matter what happens" does not line up very well with American history or political history generally. It's difficult to reverse big political trends, and it doesn't happen overnight, but we wouldn't have any of the labor or civil rights victories that we do now if the rule was just "fuck everyone over forever, this will never make you unpopular".
I mean, if our historical narrative is "evil always wins because people love evil", we should just go tend our own gardens - it doesn't make sense to break our hearts in a struggle that can't be won. But I don't think history bears this out.
Progressive forces in the US have had monstrous opponents before - people who were, frankly, morally worse, more competent and backed by more institutional power than the Trump administration.
What I'm saying is that we need to buckle down and think of all the heroic Americans who have gone before - all the various people who did work of the civil rights struggle, for instance; AIDS activists; Wobblies and other radical labor organizers; abolitionists; farm labor organizers. We've been thrown into heroic times that we never wanted, but it's not new and it's not impossible.
Lately I've been reading: a book about fashion during the occupation of France, some Italian anti-fascist novels, some stuff about Weimar and a whole heap of "First War With Voldemort" fan fiction. I find it comforting to remember that people have faced these bad times before, and they belted up and fought the forces of evil even though it was hard and costly and they took losses.
We've got to try to live in the heroic mode now, I think - not in the sense of "let's storm the capitol" but in the sense of "I am acting for history and for what is right, even knowing that these are bad times and we will take losses". The only way to conceptualize these times that works for me is that we are struggling against evil, and history will remember.
posted by Frowner at 7:04 AM on March 24, 2017 [56 favorites]
On a day that seems likely to have a big deal announcement and a lot of smaller but important moments, can I make a preemptive plea for substantive comments? I totally understand wanting to provide information quickly when it becomes available, but fifteen comments in a row just saying "passed/failed/so and so votes yes/so and so votes no" every time anything happens make these threads really frustrating to read and don't really add anything. If we could endeavor to 1) provide context in comments 2) not duplicate comments that would be super great. Thank you!
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 7:09 AM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 7:09 AM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]
Nunes knows that he's going down, and he is dumb enough to think that Trump won't kick him off the boat in a hot fucking second.
posted by Etrigan at 7:10 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 7:10 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
Also, wasn't there a big loss at the midterms after Bush did all that stumping against Social Security?
Yes. The GOP lost 30 seats in the 2006 midterms, handing the House to the Dems, which was seen as a direct response to W's very unpopular SS proposal. They also lost 6 Senate seats.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]
Yes. The GOP lost 30 seats in the 2006 midterms, handing the House to the Dems, which was seen as a direct response to W's very unpopular SS proposal. They also lost 6 Senate seats.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [15 favorites]
Thank you for getting my hopes up for a second before remembering that the Senate map in 2018 is so god damned depressing.
posted by saturday_morning at 7:15 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 7:15 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
lydhre: Amend it to "being born female is a choice which must have consequences" and you've explained the Republican's position on women pretty succinctly.
At the Republican National Convention in Tampa, Samantha Bee learns that government is meant to protect the individual liberties of everyone lacking a uterus (Daily Show clip, 2012) - in which Sam Bee gets Republicans to say exactly that. On camera. Without remorse or guilt.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:16 AM on March 24, 2017 [24 favorites]
At the Republican National Convention in Tampa, Samantha Bee learns that government is meant to protect the individual liberties of everyone lacking a uterus (Daily Show clip, 2012) - in which Sam Bee gets Republicans to say exactly that. On camera. Without remorse or guilt.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:16 AM on March 24, 2017 [24 favorites]
I know the actual title is Baba O'Riley
Baba OH!Riley, surely.
posted by Etrigan at 7:16 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
Baba OH!Riley, surely.
posted by Etrigan at 7:16 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
"[Nunes] said he'll have to get all the documents he requested from the [intelligence community] about this before he knows for sure," a spokesman for Nunes told ABC News on Thursday.
So the intelligence community has to send a raft of more sensitive and/or classified info to this utter dick who literally just blabbed some of it at two pressers and shared it with the subject of the investigation? Is there nobody who can step in and say Hell, Nawl?
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:23 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
So the intelligence community has to send a raft of more sensitive and/or classified info to this utter dick who literally just blabbed some of it at two pressers and shared it with the subject of the investigation? Is there nobody who can step in and say Hell, Nawl?
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:23 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
Catching up with the thread slowly, but jackbishop:
Nunes holds a radical-reductionist view of Parfit's notion on continuity of personal identity, which combined with his "fuck you got mine" attitude towards other people, leads him to be wholly indifferent to the tribulations he unleashes on his future self.
You owe me a new keyboard. People stopped in the corridor to see if I was okay.
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:23 AM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]
Nunes holds a radical-reductionist view of Parfit's notion on continuity of personal identity, which combined with his "fuck you got mine" attitude towards other people, leads him to be wholly indifferent to the tribulations he unleashes on his future self.
You owe me a new keyboard. People stopped in the corridor to see if I was okay.
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:23 AM on March 24, 2017 [20 favorites]
And it seems at least some in the WH are hoping it fails so they can blame Paul Ryan and not have to take responsibility for the results of this shitty bill.
Breitbart is claiming that Bannon is working behind the scenes to scuttle the bill. According to them Bannon is claiming the bill was written by the insurance companies. Also he sees this as a way to stab Ryan in the back which is something he has been waiting for.
Now I have zero faith in Breitbart so this could just be wishful propaganda, however the Trump administration is so shambolic I have no difficulty imagining that they are both working for and working against the bill at the same time.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:25 AM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]
Breitbart is claiming that Bannon is working behind the scenes to scuttle the bill. According to them Bannon is claiming the bill was written by the insurance companies. Also he sees this as a way to stab Ryan in the back which is something he has been waiting for.
Now I have zero faith in Breitbart so this could just be wishful propaganda, however the Trump administration is so shambolic I have no difficulty imagining that they are both working for and working against the bill at the same time.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:25 AM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]
Is there nobody who can step in and say Hell, Nawl?
James Comey, but.
posted by saturday_morning at 7:26 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
James Comey, but.
posted by saturday_morning at 7:26 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
House Intel Chair Nunes holding presser at 10:30am [4 minutes from now]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:27 AM on March 24, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:27 AM on March 24, 2017
"House Intel Chair Nunes holding press avail at 10:30am - stay tuned for more wiretapping news" - Deidre Walsh, CNN
Better be an announcement about stepping down from the committee!
posted by marshmallow peep at 7:27 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
Better be an announcement about stepping down from the committee!
posted by marshmallow peep at 7:27 AM on March 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
And if anyone is looking for logic or a plan as to how something from the continuously revised AHCA will actually work or be implemented, don't bother. The plan is to punt the hard stuff to the Senate (see: the Patient and State Stability (Slush) Fund), or generally categorize it as "TBD."
This saves them the trouble of actually figuring out how this will work, and tossing some bones to the Senate to support this steaming heap.
And I can't help but think that if Trump and co were even half-decent large-scale deal-makers, they would have done what so many other politicians do and shift towards the center to find compromise, instead of skewing farther right. Moving to the center would net more moderate conservatives and likely pull in some centrist Democrats, too. Bam! Done.
Except that's not "replacing Obamacare," it would likely be more of a reshaping.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:33 AM on March 24, 2017
This saves them the trouble of actually figuring out how this will work, and tossing some bones to the Senate to support this steaming heap.
And I can't help but think that if Trump and co were even half-decent large-scale deal-makers, they would have done what so many other politicians do and shift towards the center to find compromise, instead of skewing farther right. Moving to the center would net more moderate conservatives and likely pull in some centrist Democrats, too. Bam! Done.
Except that's not "replacing Obamacare," it would likely be more of a reshaping.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:33 AM on March 24, 2017
Nunes says intel comm will be inviting Comey and Rogers to address the panel in a closed session. They are postponing next week's hearing with Brennan and Clapper.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:34 AM on March 24, 2017
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:34 AM on March 24, 2017
Also, Nunes says former Trump campaign chair Paul Manafort has volunteered to be questioned by House Intel Committee. What a gentleman.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:36 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:36 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
Except that's not "replacing Obamacare," it would likely be more of a reshaping.
Honestly, before now, that's what I thought they would do. I mistakenly assumed the Trump camp would be competent enough to shuffle things around a little and leave it functionally the same, just with "Obama" scrubbed off, and take credit for the tremendous bigly replacement they created.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:36 AM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]
Honestly, before now, that's what I thought they would do. I mistakenly assumed the Trump camp would be competent enough to shuffle things around a little and leave it functionally the same, just with "Obama" scrubbed off, and take credit for the tremendous bigly replacement they created.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:36 AM on March 24, 2017 [17 favorites]
Also, Nunes says former Trump campaign chair Paul Manafort has volunteered to be questioned by House Intel Committee. What a gentleman.
Did he touch his nose meaningfully as he said it? I'm pretty sure that's his signal to his handler.
posted by Etrigan at 7:37 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
Did he touch his nose meaningfully as he said it? I'm pretty sure that's his signal to his handler.
posted by Etrigan at 7:37 AM on March 24, 2017 [6 favorites]
Honestly, before now, that's what I thought they would do. I mistakenly assumed the Trump camp would be competent enough to shuffle things around a little and leave it functionally the same, just with "Obama" scrubbed off, and take credit for the tremendous bigly replacement they created.
That'd be the smart thing, but the Trump camp 1. doesn't know a thing about Healthcare 2. doesn't care 3. are lazy and would rather have Ryan do all the work so they can 4. blame him if it fails.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:40 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
That'd be the smart thing, but the Trump camp 1. doesn't know a thing about Healthcare 2. doesn't care 3. are lazy and would rather have Ryan do all the work so they can 4. blame him if it fails.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:40 AM on March 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
Honestly, before now, that's what I thought they would do. I mistakenly assumed the Trump camp would be competent enough to shuffle things around a little and leave it functionally the same, just with "Obama" scrubbed off, and take credit for the tremendous bigly replacement they created.
This. The Republicans could declare liberal tears to be the official refreshment of the United States of America as far as I care so long as people get the healthcare they need.
posted by Talez at 7:40 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]
This. The Republicans could declare liberal tears to be the official refreshment of the United States of America as far as I care so long as people get the healthcare they need.
posted by Talez at 7:40 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]
filthy light thief: "This saves them the trouble of actually figuring out how this will work, and tossing some bones to the Senate to support this steaming heap. "
Yeah, one interesting wrinkle here. Usually, when you have a bill of interest to the general public, you have a detailed list of benefits for each district - "you'll save $2600 in taxes each year," or "this will create 250 jobs" or whatever.
You don't have that this time. Two reasons:
a) the breakneck pace - they literally haven't done the analysis
b) more importantly: there are no benefits for 98% of the population. You're taking away existing benefits, and the only tax reduction only hits the very, very richest. There's literally nothing to sell to your constituents beyond a highly questionable "freedom."
posted by Chrysostom at 7:42 AM on March 24, 2017 [31 favorites]
Yeah, one interesting wrinkle here. Usually, when you have a bill of interest to the general public, you have a detailed list of benefits for each district - "you'll save $2600 in taxes each year," or "this will create 250 jobs" or whatever.
You don't have that this time. Two reasons:
a) the breakneck pace - they literally haven't done the analysis
b) more importantly: there are no benefits for 98% of the population. You're taking away existing benefits, and the only tax reduction only hits the very, very richest. There's literally nothing to sell to your constituents beyond a highly questionable "freedom."
posted by Chrysostom at 7:42 AM on March 24, 2017 [31 favorites]
Random factoid of the day: James Comey is 6 feet 8 inches tall.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:45 AM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:45 AM on March 24, 2017 [12 favorites]
Remember how the Secret Service was asking for an extra $60 million?
Well, Mulvaney told the Secret Service to go fuck itself.
posted by Talez at 7:47 AM on March 24, 2017 [34 favorites]
Well, Mulvaney told the Secret Service to go fuck itself.
The Secret Service was told to try to find the money through savings in other areas of its budget.So it looks like the uniformed and counterfeiting arms of the agency are about to be gutted.
The request, contained in internal agency documents obtained by the newspaper, was an urgent plea for more resources after Trump and his family’s travel and lifestyle had begun to stretch the Secret Services resources to the limits.
posted by Talez at 7:47 AM on March 24, 2017 [34 favorites]
All hail our incompetent overlords, may their vacationing and lifestyle be their own undoing. Fuckers.
posted by lydhre at 7:50 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by lydhre at 7:50 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]
If we could endeavor to 1) provide context in comments 2) not duplicate comments that would be super great.
If we're dreaming that big, I'm gonna go ahead and add 3) not ever ever mix up "its" and "it's"—and aw, hell, 4) magically will every single Republican House member to vote against the AHCA today.
posted by Rykey at 7:50 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
If we're dreaming that big, I'm gonna go ahead and add 3) not ever ever mix up "its" and "it's"—and aw, hell, 4) magically will every single Republican House member to vote against the AHCA today.
posted by Rykey at 7:50 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
So it looks like the uniformed and counterfeiting arms of the agency are about to be gutted.
Why should we worry about the integrity of U.S. currency? We're not worried about the integrity of any other part of the government anymore.
posted by Etrigan at 7:50 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
Why should we worry about the integrity of U.S. currency? We're not worried about the integrity of any other part of the government anymore.
posted by Etrigan at 7:50 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
Honestly, before now, that's what I thought they would do. I mistakenly assumed the Trump camp would be competent enough to shuffle things around a little and leave it functionally the same, just with "Obama" scrubbed off, and take credit for the tremendous bigly replacement they created.
The problem is their base/voters actually want healthcare to function as Medicare for All or another universal government program would - low, predictable, budget-able costs at the point of service. These folks were too racist and misogynist to see that the people promising something in that direction were the Democrats; they believed that Republicans really did have a repeal and replacement plan that would actually lower costs and increase access/quality. But the people who fund the Republican party want tax cuts for the wealthy and for corporations, which they can only get by screwing over the voters. So republicans have to decide between voters and donors -- can the donors provide enough money to continue duping the voters? If they go with voters and lose the money, can they still get reelected? It's unclear. The bill is already polling at only 17% support -- and this is before taking into account any macroeconomic effects like rural hospitals shutting down and laying off staff.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:51 AM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]
The problem is their base/voters actually want healthcare to function as Medicare for All or another universal government program would - low, predictable, budget-able costs at the point of service. These folks were too racist and misogynist to see that the people promising something in that direction were the Democrats; they believed that Republicans really did have a repeal and replacement plan that would actually lower costs and increase access/quality. But the people who fund the Republican party want tax cuts for the wealthy and for corporations, which they can only get by screwing over the voters. So republicans have to decide between voters and donors -- can the donors provide enough money to continue duping the voters? If they go with voters and lose the money, can they still get reelected? It's unclear. The bill is already polling at only 17% support -- and this is before taking into account any macroeconomic effects like rural hospitals shutting down and laying off staff.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:51 AM on March 24, 2017 [18 favorites]
If anyone's morbidly curious about /r/the_donald's take on AHCA: near total radio silence. A couple unpopular and buried posts call it Ryancare and hope that it fails because they hate Ryan, but by and large it's as if the ACA repeal n' replace isn't even a thing of importance, even though God-Emperor himself is tweeting in favor of it. The dominant topics of conversation are how cool he looked in that truck, hating on Islam/liberals, not surrendering to the false song of (((Globalism))), etc.
Actually, wait. There's one rising thread about the Breitbart article titled Report: Steve Bannon Says American Health Care Act 'Written by the Insurance Industry'. Top voted comment:
"I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Trump is Tweeting support for it. So we all want to be on board. But what the hell, don't we hate Ryancare?"
The cognitive dissonance among his younger base seems to be rising to a deafening volume. Interesting for sure.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:51 AM on March 24, 2017 [31 favorites]
Actually, wait. There's one rising thread about the Breitbart article titled Report: Steve Bannon Says American Health Care Act 'Written by the Insurance Industry'. Top voted comment:
"I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Trump is Tweeting support for it. So we all want to be on board. But what the hell, don't we hate Ryancare?"
The cognitive dissonance among his younger base seems to be rising to a deafening volume. Interesting for sure.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:51 AM on March 24, 2017 [31 favorites]
So it looks like the uniformed and counterfeiting arms of the agency are about to be gutted.
The smart play would be the gut the protection unit; give Trump's secret service detail one guy with an old flashlight.
I suspect the White House would then somehow find the funds.
Be like local towns going "Gosh, unless we get that levy we'll have to shut down the fire station and the puppy protection unit!"
posted by leotrotsky at 7:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]
The smart play would be the gut the protection unit; give Trump's secret service detail one guy with an old flashlight.
I suspect the White House would then somehow find the funds.
Be like local towns going "Gosh, unless we get that levy we'll have to shut down the fire station and the puppy protection unit!"
posted by leotrotsky at 7:52 AM on March 24, 2017 [8 favorites]
If they go with voters and lose the money, can they still get reelected? It's unclear. The bill is already polling at only 17% support -- and this is before taking into account any macroeconomic effects like rural hospitals shutting down and laying off staff.
Holy shit. I just realized that the ACA gutted DSH on the assumption that expanded Medicaid and universal insurance would lower the rate of uncompensated care. Are the Republicans readjusting the DSH levels on the back of gutting the ACA or are we literally going to see bankrupt hospitals?
posted by Talez at 7:55 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
Holy shit. I just realized that the ACA gutted DSH on the assumption that expanded Medicaid and universal insurance would lower the rate of uncompensated care. Are the Republicans readjusting the DSH levels on the back of gutting the ACA or are we literally going to see bankrupt hospitals?
posted by Talez at 7:55 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
New thread since it'll probably be a busy day and this one's getting unwieldy.
posted by jferg at 7:55 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by jferg at 7:55 AM on March 24, 2017 [11 favorites]
how cool he looked in that truck
fascism is a hell of a drug
posted by murphy slaw at 7:56 AM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]
fascism is a hell of a drug
posted by murphy slaw at 7:56 AM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]
The problem is their base/voters actually want healthcare to function as Medicare for All or another universal government program would - low, predictable, budget-able costs at the point of service. These folks were too racist and misogynist to see that the people promising something in that direction were the Democrats; they believed that Republicans really did have a repeal and replacement plan that would actually lower costs and increase access/quality. But the people who fund the Republican party want tax cuts for the wealthy and for corporations, which they can only get by screwing over the voters.
You know, if Joe Manchin has any interest at all in universal healthcare, he's actually in a fantastic position to get it done.
posted by saturday_morning at 7:57 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
You know, if Joe Manchin has any interest at all in universal healthcare, he's actually in a fantastic position to get it done.
posted by saturday_morning at 7:57 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
The Secret Service was told to try to find the money through savings in other areas of its budget.
stop protecting them - a majority of the country would be okay with that
posted by kokaku at 7:57 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
stop protecting them - a majority of the country would be okay with that
posted by kokaku at 7:57 AM on March 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
Tried to call my Republican rep...
Got "All circuits are busy" at his Washington number, and a "beep beep beep" busy signal at his local number.
I've never gotten either of those in the probably 30+ times I've called him since Trump was elected (probably about 10 times on healthcare alone.)
I've barely heard a busy signal in any context since the year 2000, and the only previous times in my life I can recall encountering "all circuits are busy" is when trying to check if people were okay after some natural disaster. I think that's a signal that not only the number I tried to call is busy, but that the whole congressional telephone network must be over capacity?
Am trying to send my message visa resistbot instead...
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:00 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
Got "All circuits are busy" at his Washington number, and a "beep beep beep" busy signal at his local number.
I've never gotten either of those in the probably 30+ times I've called him since Trump was elected (probably about 10 times on healthcare alone.)
I've barely heard a busy signal in any context since the year 2000, and the only previous times in my life I can recall encountering "all circuits are busy" is when trying to check if people were okay after some natural disaster. I think that's a signal that not only the number I tried to call is busy, but that the whole congressional telephone network must be over capacity?
Am trying to send my message visa resistbot instead...
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:00 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
When the thread begins to crash
When the hard drive starts to thrash
And the browser's almost dead
Head on over to the new thread
BURMA SHAVE
posted by Freon at 8:09 AM on March 24, 2017 [40 favorites]
When the hard drive starts to thrash
And the browser's almost dead
Head on over to the new thread
BURMA SHAVE
posted by Freon at 8:09 AM on March 24, 2017 [40 favorites]
Hey, when's someone going to start working on a new thread?
posted by Etrigan at 8:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 8:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [9 favorites]
Well, Mulvaney told the Secret Service to go fuck itself.This is unfortunate. Counties who have difficulty covering the cost of a Presidential visit can apply to the USSS for a "hardship" consideration. The USSS will disburse money to that police department to help cover the costs of overtime and whatnot when the President and his entourage are in town. I'm almost positive that this is what the USSS wanted the money for. I hope they have the balls to just deny requests for hardship money rather than destroying their own agency to support a set of lavish lifestyles. Let the local yokels who voted for this shitheel in FL suffer.
posted by xyzzy at 8:16 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
he problem is their base/voters actually want healthcare to function as Medicare for All
Well, they want Medicare for Me, nothing at all for those lazy black people mooching all the tax money.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:29 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, they want Medicare for Me, nothing at all for those lazy black people mooching all the tax money.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:29 AM on March 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
Let the local yokels who voted for this shitheel in FL suffer.
We the local yokels of Palm Beach County (who are doing the suffering every time the shitheel comes to Mar-a-Lago) voted for Clinton over Trump 56-41. So, you know, bite me.
posted by Daily Alice at 9:31 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]
We the local yokels of Palm Beach County (who are doing the suffering every time the shitheel comes to Mar-a-Lago) voted for Clinton over Trump 56-41. So, you know, bite me.
posted by Daily Alice at 9:31 AM on March 24, 2017 [16 favorites]
Fuckin' A. Yeah, the island has a bunch of rich MAGA assholes, and there are the requisite Traitor Flag dipshits scattered around the rest of it. But PBC is mostly brown and poor. And, if 2016 was anything like 2012, folks were standing in line for 10 hours to vote against Trump.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:54 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 9:54 AM on March 24, 2017 [5 favorites]
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posted by MattWPBS at 10:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
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posted by MattWPBS at 10:11 AM on March 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
We the local yokels of Palm Beach County (who are doing the suffering every time the shitheel comes to Mar-a-Lago) voted for Clinton over Trump 56-41. So, you know, bite me.
I would love to be rich enough to buy some billboard space in those areas. "Most of the people around here voted for Trump," plain and simple, so everybody knows where they are.
posted by rhizome at 10:40 AM on March 24, 2017
I would love to be rich enough to buy some billboard space in those areas. "Most of the people around here voted for Trump," plain and simple, so everybody knows where they are.
posted by rhizome at 10:40 AM on March 24, 2017
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