A financial incentive to murder fellow tontine annuitants
March 29, 2017 11:58 AM Subscribe
Tontines are a rather unusual form of investment annuity, and they may be making a comeback.
In a tontine, a group of participants pay in a fee, then annually collect an annuity. As participants die, the remaining members get larger and larger amounts. At the end, the remaining survivor gets everything left. Likely dating to 17th century France, tontines were once popular in the United States - Alexander Hamilton even proposed an official government one - but they fell from favor.
Could they work again today? Are they even legal? Maybe, on both counts.
(tontines previously)
In a tontine, a group of participants pay in a fee, then annually collect an annuity. As participants die, the remaining members get larger and larger amounts. At the end, the remaining survivor gets everything left. Likely dating to 17th century France, tontines were once popular in the United States - Alexander Hamilton even proposed an official government one - but they fell from favor.
Could they work again today? Are they even legal? Maybe, on both counts.
(tontines previously)
We'll all be rich. Rich as Nazis!
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:03 PM on March 29, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:03 PM on March 29, 2017 [18 favorites]
I'm in. I've no money and all my grandparents made 90.
posted by maryr at 12:04 PM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by maryr at 12:04 PM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
Kind of shocked other people know enough people who don't already want to kill them to enter into a tontine.
posted by griphus at 12:10 PM on March 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
posted by griphus at 12:10 PM on March 29, 2017 [24 favorites]
I first encountered this word in Lois McMaster Bujold's science fiction novel Cetaganda:
"I am not a proponent of the hero theory of disaster," Miles said diplomatically. "General Yenaro had the misfortune to be the last of five successive ghem-generals who lost the Barrayaran War, and thus the sole inheritor of a, as it were, tontine of blame."
Which does an an admirable job of conveying the concept through context. But I still looked it up. Because that's how I roll.
posted by seasparrow at 12:13 PM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
"I am not a proponent of the hero theory of disaster," Miles said diplomatically. "General Yenaro had the misfortune to be the last of five successive ghem-generals who lost the Barrayaran War, and thus the sole inheritor of a, as it were, tontine of blame."
Which does an an admirable job of conveying the concept through context. But I still looked it up. Because that's how I roll.
posted by seasparrow at 12:13 PM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
I first remember the word from an episode of M*A*S*H, so I can only hear it in Harry Morgan's voice.
posted by Bromius at 12:15 PM on March 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Bromius at 12:15 PM on March 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
From the NYT article:
Richard Brownstein, chief executive of FHC Wealth Advisors in Fairfield, N.J., which specializes in retirement planning for people in arts and entertainment, envisions tontines layered with blockchain and smart contract technology
The word "blockchain" has become like the word "toxins" to me, in that I immediately discount everything the the speaker says after they say it.
posted by JDHarper at 12:16 PM on March 29, 2017 [49 favorites]
Richard Brownstein, chief executive of FHC Wealth Advisors in Fairfield, N.J., which specializes in retirement planning for people in arts and entertainment, envisions tontines layered with blockchain and smart contract technology
The word "blockchain" has become like the word "toxins" to me, in that I immediately discount everything the the speaker says after they say it.
posted by JDHarper at 12:16 PM on March 29, 2017 [49 favorites]
M*A*S*H spoiler ahead:
We see that Potter is spending his time in his office, listening to old French records. When a little boy wanders in, Potter is sweet and gentle to him, putting him on his lap and showing him old photographs of himself in WWI.
The next night comes around, and everyone arrives at Potter's tent at the prescribed time. Everyone is assuming the worst, that Potter is facing a divorce, or, even worse, a bad report from his doctor.
But Potter explains that its not anything like that--the news is that the last of his friends from a WWI unit he was part of in France has died. They created a tontine--a pledge--involving a bottle of French wine, to be drunk by the last surviving member.
posted by willF at 12:22 PM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
We see that Potter is spending his time in his office, listening to old French records. When a little boy wanders in, Potter is sweet and gentle to him, putting him on his lap and showing him old photographs of himself in WWI.
The next night comes around, and everyone arrives at Potter's tent at the prescribed time. Everyone is assuming the worst, that Potter is facing a divorce, or, even worse, a bad report from his doctor.
But Potter explains that its not anything like that--the news is that the last of his friends from a WWI unit he was part of in France has died. They created a tontine--a pledge--involving a bottle of French wine, to be drunk by the last surviving member.
posted by willF at 12:22 PM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
What if, upon the death of the last member, the accumulated fund was dispersed to the heirs of all the original members, like any normal inheritance (just somewhat delayed for some of the heirs). Ultimately a bit more fairness, in a way?
(Although then you have effectively multiplied the number of people rooting for your death.)
posted by Kabanos at 12:25 PM on March 29, 2017
(Although then you have effectively multiplied the number of people rooting for your death.)
posted by Kabanos at 12:25 PM on March 29, 2017
It serves as an effective Wodehouse plot engine, though naturally you need to catalyze it with a butler.
posted by Wolfdog at 12:28 PM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Wolfdog at 12:28 PM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm in. I've no money and all my grandparents made 90.
It's possible that disclosing your family's tendency to longevity would make others less inclined to enter a tontine with you. Sort of like the opposite of what you'd need to qualify for some kinds of life insurance.
posted by asperity at 12:29 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's possible that disclosing your family's tendency to longevity would make others less inclined to enter a tontine with you. Sort of like the opposite of what you'd need to qualify for some kinds of life insurance.
posted by asperity at 12:29 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Anything that is subject to an "Archer" plot is in general suspicious.
posted by The Power Nap at 12:30 PM on March 29, 2017 [26 favorites]
posted by The Power Nap at 12:30 PM on March 29, 2017 [26 favorites]
It's possible that disclosing your family's tendency to longevity would make others less inclined to enter a tontine with you. Sort of like the opposite of what you'd need to qualify for some kinds of life insurance.
I'm game. I'm massively overweight, smoke like a chimney, and both my parents died in infancy. My hobbies include base jumping and eating things that MetaFilter tells me not to eat.
Memail me if you are interested in joining my...
Sorry, strange rash here. Going to see a doctor. BRB.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 12:33 PM on March 29, 2017 [27 favorites]
I'm game. I'm massively overweight, smoke like a chimney, and both my parents died in infancy. My hobbies include base jumping and eating things that MetaFilter tells me not to eat.
Memail me if you are interested in joining my...
Sorry, strange rash here. Going to see a doctor. BRB.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 12:33 PM on March 29, 2017 [27 favorites]
Tontines are the backyard snow animals my dad made when we were kids, because he couldn't remember the word Tauntaun.
posted by Sphinx at 12:35 PM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by Sphinx at 12:35 PM on March 29, 2017 [9 favorites]
But Potter explains that its not anything like that--the news is that the last of his friends from a WWI unit he was part of in France has died. They created a tontine--a pledge--involving a bottle of French wine, to be drunk by the last surviving member.
That's the episode!!! Damn I was wondering where it came up. That episode.... whew, the room is all dusty all of a sudden.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:38 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's the episode!!! Damn I was wondering where it came up. That episode.... whew, the room is all dusty all of a sudden.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:38 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Montgomery Burns: Then it's agreed. Of course, we can't sell the paintings now, we'd be caught. How many of you are familiar with the concept of a "tontine"?posted by infinitewindow at 12:45 PM on March 29, 2017 [20 favorites]
[dumb-looking soldier raises his hand]
Montgomery Burns: All right, Ox. Why don't you take us through it?
Ox: Duh, essentially, we all enter into a contract whereby the last surviving participant becomes the sole possessor of all them purty pictures.
Montgomery Burns: Well put, Oxford.
FWIW, I dropped the Archer angle only because the earlier post mentioned it prominently.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:46 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Chrysostom at 12:46 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
It serves as an effective Wodehouse plot engine, though naturally you need to catalyze it with a butler.
It's also a Woodhouse-as-butler plot engine.
posted by CaseyB at 12:46 PM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's also a Woodhouse-as-butler plot engine.
posted by CaseyB at 12:46 PM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Are they even legal?
No. No they are not legal. Even when dissolving a mutual company (that the kind of insurance company where the policy owners are the company owners) actuaries are taught that it can be easy for it to become a tontine situation and must be avoided.
posted by LizBoBiz at 12:47 PM on March 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
No. No they are not legal. Even when dissolving a mutual company (that the kind of insurance company where the policy owners are the company owners) actuaries are taught that it can be easy for it to become a tontine situation and must be avoided.
posted by LizBoBiz at 12:47 PM on March 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Tontines? And I thought they smelled bad on the *outside*.
posted by GuyZero at 12:53 PM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 12:53 PM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
This is just like a Wodehouse novel!
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:00 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:00 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Anything that is subject to an "Archer" plot is in general suspicious.
Woodhouse, rather than Wodehouse, in that case.
posted by bonehead at 1:17 PM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Woodhouse, rather than Wodehouse, in that case.
posted by bonehead at 1:17 PM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
We see that Potter is spending his time in his office, listening to old French records.
WWI ended in 1918. Korea was 32 years later. How old were his old buddies? (Of course MASH was really about Vietnam, but even so, this kind of bugged me at the time.)
Of course, no discussions of tontines would be complete without a shout out for The Wrong Box, as good a showcase for Pete and Dud and Peter Sellars and Michael Caine and John Mills and Ralph Richardson as there is, with screenplay adapted from the Robert Louis Stevenson and Lloyd Osbourne novel by - wait for it - MASH creator Larry Gelbart.
posted by BWA at 1:25 PM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
WWI ended in 1918. Korea was 32 years later. How old were his old buddies? (Of course MASH was really about Vietnam, but even so, this kind of bugged me at the time.)
Of course, no discussions of tontines would be complete without a shout out for The Wrong Box, as good a showcase for Pete and Dud and Peter Sellars and Michael Caine and John Mills and Ralph Richardson as there is, with screenplay adapted from the Robert Louis Stevenson and Lloyd Osbourne novel by - wait for it - MASH creator Larry Gelbart.
posted by BWA at 1:25 PM on March 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
My uncle was in a tontine during WWII. He was a 101st airborne paratroop, and the way my dad told it, he went in on D-Day and by dawn he was the final survivor of his tontine. Very late in life my uncle became a little more talkative about it, and I got the corrected version: 3 or 4 of the dozen did survive the day, and 2 or 3 the war's end, though I believe he was still the last survivor in the end.
I also discovered the first part was wrong, too. He was a Ranger *Pathfinder*. He didn't go in on D-Day, he went in before to mark landing zones for the rest on D-Day. He was 17 years old. It's hard for me to imagine the mindset as they set up the tontine, waiting for the day. Or I can imagine it, but hard to comprehend it.
posted by tavella at 1:50 PM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
I also discovered the first part was wrong, too. He was a Ranger *Pathfinder*. He didn't go in on D-Day, he went in before to mark landing zones for the rest on D-Day. He was 17 years old. It's hard for me to imagine the mindset as they set up the tontine, waiting for the day. Or I can imagine it, but hard to comprehend it.
posted by tavella at 1:50 PM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Well, there's one thing *I* look for in my retirement investments. I make sure that they're run by people who come off as warm and comforting; "a backward-looking cabal of financial specialists", if you will. Wholesome folks like that.
posted by The Notorious B.F.G. at 2:01 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by The Notorious B.F.G. at 2:01 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Here are a couple columns about the concept of tontines as investment vehicles, when implemented in high fantasy settings. Much like in the real world, they don't work at all and are terrible murderous ideas.
posted by kafziel at 2:32 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by kafziel at 2:32 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
In a tontine, a group of participants pay in a fee, then annually collect an annuity. As participants die, the remaining members get larger and larger amounts.
And then the murders began.
posted by betweenthebars at 2:32 PM on March 29, 2017 [30 favorites]
And then the murders began.
posted by betweenthebars at 2:32 PM on March 29, 2017 [30 favorites]
My FIL is in one of these death contacts with some friends. Who dies last gets a huge chunk of undeveloped land they have used collectively for syrup and hunting. At the end, the sole survivor will have a piece of property with no responsibilities to their friend's heirs, despite the land having been shared among all three families for two decades. It's brought all the families collectively together for Syrup activities and hunting, but at some point - it just falls to the family of the past person standing... and where does the good will go then?
posted by Nanukthedog at 2:34 PM on March 29, 2017
posted by Nanukthedog at 2:34 PM on March 29, 2017
My FIL is in one of these death contacts with some friends. Who dies last gets a huge chunk of undeveloped land they have used collectively for syrup and hunting. At the end, the sole survivor will have a piece of property with no responsibilities to their friend's heirs, despite the land having been shared among all three families for two decades. It's brought all the families collectively together for Syrup activities and hunting, but at some point - it just falls to the family of the past person standing... and where does the good will go then?
Might suggest they dissolve this illegal arrangement in favor of something a little better for everyone and less likely to lead to jail time for the "winner" if probated.
posted by kafziel at 2:42 PM on March 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Might suggest they dissolve this illegal arrangement in favor of something a little better for everyone and less likely to lead to jail time for the "winner" if probated.
posted by kafziel at 2:42 PM on March 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
WWI ended in 1918. Korea was 32 years later. How old were his old buddies?
Trick question. They were dead.
posted by ODiV at 2:43 PM on March 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
Trick question. They were dead.
posted by ODiV at 2:43 PM on March 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
... I also discovered the first part was wrong, too...
And in a final surprising twist, his real name was Dick Whitman.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 2:46 PM on March 29, 2017
And in a final surprising twist, his real name was Dick Whitman.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 2:46 PM on March 29, 2017
Might suggest they dissolve this illegal arrangement in favor of something a little better for everyone and less likely to lead to jail time for the "winner" if probated.
Likely this is a case of Joint Tenancy with Rights of Survivorship and is legal even if it looks for all purposes exactly like a tontine from the outside (with the main difference being enjoyment of the property prior to the sole right eventually going to the last survivor.)
posted by Navelgazer at 2:51 PM on March 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
Likely this is a case of Joint Tenancy with Rights of Survivorship and is legal even if it looks for all purposes exactly like a tontine from the outside (with the main difference being enjoyment of the property prior to the sole right eventually going to the last survivor.)
posted by Navelgazer at 2:51 PM on March 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
while we're at it, let's just make it legal to buy life insurance on random strangers we've never met, and name ourselves the beneficiaries! hmmm.. maybe we could append the necessary paperwork to all those forms you already have to fill out when you buy a gun...
posted by wibari at 3:01 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by wibari at 3:01 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's brought all the families collectively together for Syrup activities and hunting, but at some point - it just falls to the family of the past person standing... and where does the good will go then?
Nothing dissolves good will quite as well as an inter-family property dispute.
posted by dudemanlives at 3:09 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Nothing dissolves good will quite as well as an inter-family property dispute.
posted by dudemanlives at 3:09 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
never underestimate the wounded pride and thirst for vengeance that stirs within a man's breast once he is denied his ancestral place for syrup activities
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:12 PM on March 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:12 PM on March 29, 2017 [22 favorites]
Of course, no discussions of tontines would be complete without a shout out for The Wrong Box, as good a showcase for Pete and Dud and Peter Sellars and Michael Caine and John Mills and Ralph Richardson as there is, with screenplay adapted from the Robert Louis Stevenson and Lloyd Osbourne novel by - wait for it - MASH creator Larry Gelbart.
One of my favorite films. Time to watch it again.
posted by Splunge at 3:16 PM on March 29, 2017
One of my favorite films. Time to watch it again.
posted by Splunge at 3:16 PM on March 29, 2017
I love tontines because it's like a pirate's treasure death pact, but we're all pretending it's a legit investment vehicle!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:17 PM on March 29, 2017
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:17 PM on March 29, 2017
Technically we're all in a tontine. Last human alive gets the planet! Turn off the lights when you leave.
posted by blue_beetle at 5:59 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by blue_beetle at 5:59 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I feel like you could ask literally any person within four years of me in age (I'm 31) and they would all have first encountered the tontine via The Simpsons.
posted by nonasuch at 6:26 PM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by nonasuch at 6:26 PM on March 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
I love tontines because it's like a pirate's treasure death pact, but we're all pretending it's a legit investment vehicle!
I am super psyched for tontine derivatives. Buy if you think a certain subsection of 75 year old women from Florida is less likely to die in the next 5 years! Short if you're skeptical about the lifespans of 83 year old former coal miners in West Virginia.
posted by Copronymus at 6:28 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I am super psyched for tontine derivatives. Buy if you think a certain subsection of 75 year old women from Florida is less likely to die in the next 5 years! Short if you're skeptical about the lifespans of 83 year old former coal miners in West Virginia.
posted by Copronymus at 6:28 PM on March 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I wonder how many people could easily grok the core plot of The Hellfish Bonanza because they'd grown up like I did, with thrice-daily reruns of M*A*S*H.
I suspect the fees for a tontine are minimal at best, so they'd probably make a low-cost index fund advocate like Warren Buffett happy. On the other hand, calculating an annual rate of return is... problematic.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 6:46 PM on March 29, 2017
I suspect the fees for a tontine are minimal at best, so they'd probably make a low-cost index fund advocate like Warren Buffett happy. On the other hand, calculating an annual rate of return is... problematic.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 6:46 PM on March 29, 2017
I wonder how many people could easily grok the core plot of The Hellfish Bonanza because they'd grown up like I did, with thrice-daily reruns of MASH.
I don’t think I’ve ever watched an episode of MASH in its entirety and I can assure you that “The Hellfish Bonanza” scanned just fine.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:49 PM on March 29, 2017
I don’t think I’ve ever watched an episode of MASH in its entirety and I can assure you that “The Hellfish Bonanza” scanned just fine.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:49 PM on March 29, 2017
I am super psyched for tontine derivatives. Buy if you think a certain subsection of 75 year old women from Florida is less likely to die in the next 5 years! Short if you're skeptical about the lifespans of 83 year old former coal miners in West Virginia.
In France (and elsewhere?), there’s a standard arrangement for purchasing someone’s house on the condition that you get ownership when they die - you just have to pay them some kind of stipend until they pass. ((“Life estate”) The most notable example of this is Jeanne Calment, who signed such a contract at 90 and then went on to live until she turned 122, outliving the man with whom she had contracted.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:56 PM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
In France (and elsewhere?), there’s a standard arrangement for purchasing someone’s house on the condition that you get ownership when they die - you just have to pay them some kind of stipend until they pass. ((“Life estate”) The most notable example of this is Jeanne Calment, who signed such a contract at 90 and then went on to live until she turned 122, outliving the man with whom she had contracted.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:56 PM on March 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
In France (and elsewhere?), there’s a standard arrangement for purchasing someone’s house on the condition that you get ownership when they die - you just have to pay them some kind of stipend until they pass. ((“Life estate”) The most notable example of this is Jeanne Calment, who signed such a contract at 90 and then went on to live until she turned 122, outliving the man with whom she had contracted.
Yeah, we have those in the US. We call them reverse mortgages. They're vile, disgusting instruments used to con the elderly out of their equity.
posted by kafziel at 7:14 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, we have those in the US. We call them reverse mortgages. They're vile, disgusting instruments used to con the elderly out of their equity.
posted by kafziel at 7:14 PM on March 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
BWA: "WWI ended in 1918. Korea was 32 years later. How old were his old buddies? (Of course MASH was really about Vietnam, but even so, this kind of bugged me at the time.)"
Well one would assume the attrition was due to enemy action not old age.
posted by Mitheral at 9:43 PM on March 29, 2017
Well one would assume the attrition was due to enemy action not old age.
posted by Mitheral at 9:43 PM on March 29, 2017
There was an episode of The Wild Wild West about a tontine as well. Complete with multiple murders.
posted by Billiken at 6:11 AM on March 30, 2017
posted by Billiken at 6:11 AM on March 30, 2017
Yeah, we have those in the US. We call them reverse mortgages. They're vile, disgusting instruments used to con the elderly out of their equity.
These days, the vast majority of reverse mortgages involve a lump sum payment, not an annuity-like stream of payments. Whether that's better or worse is left as an exercise for the reader.
posted by praemunire at 8:50 AM on March 30, 2017
These days, the vast majority of reverse mortgages involve a lump sum payment, not an annuity-like stream of payments. Whether that's better or worse is left as an exercise for the reader.
posted by praemunire at 8:50 AM on March 30, 2017
Setting aside the murder part - let's say that there's a good way to anonymize members of a toutine, so you're entering in with "woman 53 lives in New Hampshire non-smoker" and "man 48 lives in New York non-smoker" instead of Betsy and Sam - why wouldn't this be a good idea? You're insuring yourself against long life, in a way, no? I'd rather have a little more guaranteed income if I lived longer than expected than have a larger nest egg (setting aside the cost of end of life care) to pass on if I died sooner than expected, personally.
posted by R a c h e l at 9:11 AM on March 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by R a c h e l at 9:11 AM on March 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
I got tontines and ondines mixed up and now a water spirit is gonna get all my stuff when I die. Help?
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:54 AM on March 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:54 AM on March 30, 2017 [5 favorites]
I just encountered tontines for the first time in an Agatha Christie novel about two weeks ago. I'm so pleased to have learned something besides antiquated racist language.
posted by epj at 4:22 PM on March 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by epj at 4:22 PM on March 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
> "Sorry, strange rash here. Going to see a doctor. BRB."
A doctor, you say? Pfft. Amateur.
I *never* go to a doctor for my strange rashes, ladies and gentlemen. I'm quite sure they'll go away on their own, as will these pustules and this strange, constant headache.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go share some needles with my co-workers on the arctic crabfishing boat. We're all going train surfing later and I have to get ready.
posted by kyrademon at 4:25 AM on March 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
A doctor, you say? Pfft. Amateur.
I *never* go to a doctor for my strange rashes, ladies and gentlemen. I'm quite sure they'll go away on their own, as will these pustules and this strange, constant headache.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go share some needles with my co-workers on the arctic crabfishing boat. We're all going train surfing later and I have to get ready.
posted by kyrademon at 4:25 AM on March 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is what I love about Metafilter: when presented with tontines, your thoughts turn not to murder, but to fraud.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:37 AM on March 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 9:37 AM on March 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
Or we're only seeing Part 1 of the plan.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:48 AM on March 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:48 AM on March 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
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posted by Going To Maine at 12:02 PM on March 29, 2017 [14 favorites]