Commentators assume podcasting basically began with Serial.
April 6, 2017 9:07 AM Subscribe
A new article in The New Republic tries and fails, badly, to analyze contemporary podcasting.
Dean assigns podcasting’s early history to less than a full sentence (“The podcast form has been around since about 2004—it is kissing cousins with the iPod, in that way—but it was only in 2014 that the idea struck gold”), then leaps ahead. This lets readers skip the first decade+ of podcasting, the years between the form’s appearance (the term was coined in 2004) and the eruption of Serial in 2014. Thaty does a disservice to pioneers, and also blinds us to the huge variety of invention that happened during that first wave.
Dean assigns podcasting’s early history to less than a full sentence (“The podcast form has been around since about 2004—it is kissing cousins with the iPod, in that way—but it was only in 2014 that the idea struck gold”), then leaps ahead. This lets readers skip the first decade+ of podcasting, the years between the form’s appearance (the term was coined in 2004) and the eruption of Serial in 2014. Thaty does a disservice to pioneers, and also blinds us to the huge variety of invention that happened during that first wave.
The breakout nature of Serial has caused problems, though. Look at how many people were disappointed by S-Town, which is a monumental work, because it didn't neatly fit into Serial's existing murder-mystery niche.
posted by kevinbelt at 9:26 AM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 9:26 AM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Before that, podcasts were a thing audio nerds did and talked about.I am pretty sure that I am not in any way an audio nerd, and I started listening to knitting podcasts (knitting podcasts!) in about 2006.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:27 AM on April 6, 2017 [21 favorites]
A podcast, after all, only truly flourishes when it has one of two things. The first is a genuinely engaging obsessive who can’t let go of a subject, and the second is prestige.So Dean is saying that a podcast only succeeds by being good and having niche appeal or by being good and having wide appeal. As opposed to all those other art forms that allow one to be successful without being good or appealing.
posted by Etrigan at 9:28 AM on April 6, 2017 [14 favorites]
The framing of the current state of podcasts as either NPR/prestige or some guy in the basement is odd, especially as TNR is actually part of the trend of media companies starting their own. I would have also expected a discussion of the role of crowdfunding and the rise of podcast networks.
posted by mikek at 9:34 AM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by mikek at 9:34 AM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
But radio is different: Beamed out to a broad audience whose choices in programming are limited by their physical location and the time of day they tune in, radio aimed from the start to reach anyone and everyone who happened to be listening.
OK, but that happened with everything. TV, movies, music, and radio shows/podcasts. Lower production costs and on demand delivery allow people to both create and consume niche media much more easily. Boom! More content, and more content you know about and are able to access.
Anyway, I like the New Republic article because I didn't know before that listening to podcasts is high brow and snobby. Fucking SWEET! I am a fancy lady now!
posted by ernielundquist at 9:34 AM on April 6, 2017 [20 favorites]
OK, but that happened with everything. TV, movies, music, and radio shows/podcasts. Lower production costs and on demand delivery allow people to both create and consume niche media much more easily. Boom! More content, and more content you know about and are able to access.
Anyway, I like the New Republic article because I didn't know before that listening to podcasts is high brow and snobby. Fucking SWEET! I am a fancy lady now!
posted by ernielundquist at 9:34 AM on April 6, 2017 [20 favorites]
Also, one of the big trends seems to be the emergence of non-NPR-affiliated podcast networks like Gimlet, Maximum Fun, Radiotopia and Panopoly.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:35 AM on April 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:35 AM on April 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
I would actually be really interested to read a smart, informed article about the current state of the podcast world. But this isn't it.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:42 AM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:42 AM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
Anyway, I like the New Republic article because I didn't know before that listening to podcasts is high brow and snobby. Fucking SWEET! I am a fancy lady now!
I'm just gonna bet that Dean has no idea whatsoever about the professional wrestling podcast ecosystem, because bahahahahahaha...
posted by Etrigan at 9:45 AM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm just gonna bet that Dean has no idea whatsoever about the professional wrestling podcast ecosystem, because bahahahahahaha...
posted by Etrigan at 9:45 AM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
The host and listener are like children counting marbles, things that have little or no value to others but that seem priceless to those engaged in the counting.
That's about the only line I agree with in the whole piece (though it's a little condescending), but Dean seems to ignore that idea elsewhere. There seems to be a focus on a podcast being very popular or "flourishing" which is true of some, but several I listen to are clearly made on the cheap and for the fun of making them. Those are more fun to listen to that Serial type shows for me. Also, most of the NPR podcasts aren't really podcasts, but rebroadcasts of already produced radio shows which is fine and I enjoy them, but it's weird to lump them together with things produced only for podcast distribution.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 9:47 AM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's about the only line I agree with in the whole piece (though it's a little condescending), but Dean seems to ignore that idea elsewhere. There seems to be a focus on a podcast being very popular or "flourishing" which is true of some, but several I listen to are clearly made on the cheap and for the fun of making them. Those are more fun to listen to that Serial type shows for me. Also, most of the NPR podcasts aren't really podcasts, but rebroadcasts of already produced radio shows which is fine and I enjoy them, but it's weird to lump them together with things produced only for podcast distribution.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 9:47 AM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Americans, of course, have been listening to the radio for more than a hundred years. But radio is different: Beamed out to a broad audience whose choices in programming are limited by their physical location and the time of day they tune in, radio aimed from the start to reach anyone and everyone who happened to be listening. It couldn’t be too weird or off-kilter; it couldn’t be about individual obsession. It had to be about the shared stuff of public life.
I think the problem with this article starts at the very beginning, and stems from the idea that radio is only popular material. Counterpoint: community and college radio stations, where anything can get airtime, if not a dedicated radio show, where weird and off-kilter was celebrated. When I was on college radio, there was a DJ who would host a show dedicated to The Cramps, a band with only 8 albums, and none of them terribly long, so the host had a checklist of all their songs, to make sure she didn't repeat anything. This was a daytime show, and might be heard before a show dedicated to no wave music, or after a show dedicated to video games and video game music; as compared to the late-night weirdness of brutal metal and avant-garde noise.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:47 AM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think the problem with this article starts at the very beginning, and stems from the idea that radio is only popular material. Counterpoint: community and college radio stations, where anything can get airtime, if not a dedicated radio show, where weird and off-kilter was celebrated. When I was on college radio, there was a DJ who would host a show dedicated to The Cramps, a band with only 8 albums, and none of them terribly long, so the host had a checklist of all their songs, to make sure she didn't repeat anything. This was a daytime show, and might be heard before a show dedicated to no wave music, or after a show dedicated to video games and video game music; as compared to the late-night weirdness of brutal metal and avant-garde noise.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:47 AM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Cowboy Bebop at his computer listening to a podcast"
posted by Wolfdog at 9:50 AM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Wolfdog at 9:50 AM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
The public radio and big media expansion into podcasting is... almost a different medium. For a long time, "podcast" and "amateur" were essentially synonymous.
Even now, there are several different podcast "movements"--still tons of amateur "dudes/ladies talk about stuff" podcasts (I produce a couple of those), then you've got the comedian subgenre (pretty much started by WTF with Marc Maron), then you've got the ex-public radio producers going off and being hired by Gimlet, Earwolf, etc. and bringing a public radio sound to podcasting, with cursing! And that's just off the top of my head.
Keith and the Girl? The TWiT "netcast" network? Lots of other podcasts that I have no idea even exist?
posted by Automocar at 10:02 AM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Even now, there are several different podcast "movements"--still tons of amateur "dudes/ladies talk about stuff" podcasts (I produce a couple of those), then you've got the comedian subgenre (pretty much started by WTF with Marc Maron), then you've got the ex-public radio producers going off and being hired by Gimlet, Earwolf, etc. and bringing a public radio sound to podcasting, with cursing! And that's just off the top of my head.
Keith and the Girl? The TWiT "netcast" network? Lots of other podcasts that I have no idea even exist?
posted by Automocar at 10:02 AM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
The host and listener are like children counting marbles, things that have little or no value to others but that seem priceless to those engaged in the counting.
That's about the only line I agree with in the whole piece (though it's a little condescending)
Not only is it condescending, it's so broadly applicable as to be meaningless. Doesn't that insult apply to pretty much anything? What's the difference between listening to the Manson episodes of You Must Remember This, attending a lecture on the Manon killing, or reading a book on them? Or learning about anything at all in any format?
It seems like a weird broadside against the very concept of learning about things one is interested in.
posted by Sangermaine at 10:04 AM on April 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
That's about the only line I agree with in the whole piece (though it's a little condescending)
Not only is it condescending, it's so broadly applicable as to be meaningless. Doesn't that insult apply to pretty much anything? What's the difference between listening to the Manson episodes of You Must Remember This, attending a lecture on the Manon killing, or reading a book on them? Or learning about anything at all in any format?
It seems like a weird broadside against the very concept of learning about things one is interested in.
posted by Sangermaine at 10:04 AM on April 6, 2017 [5 favorites]
Yeah. I listen almost entirely to unscripted "talk radio" podcast, whether it's sports or gaming or what have you, and it seems like there's a large clump of people who are completely unaware that this is even a thing.
posted by selfnoise at 10:04 AM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by selfnoise at 10:04 AM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
(MeFi's Own) Merlin Mann has been doing Back to Work since 2011 and I've spent more time on any given day listening to podcasts than listening to music since shortly after that point. (Aside from one brief period after downloading the Hamilton soundtrack.)
I can get saying that maybe podcasts have been more of a tech/nerd thing generally, but calling it an "audio nerd" thing is very weird. And this stuff about "an amateur talk show recorded in someone’s garage"--yeah, I mean, a lot of these things are recorded in garages or spare bedrooms or whatever, but I don't see what makes it an "amateur talk show" when you have professionals talking together about things they're genuine experts on, just because they don't meet together in an expensive studio with an enormous production staff. I know there have been plenty of half-assed attempts at podcasting by lots of different people over time, but that particular phrase does not seem to be referring to the things that make it four episodes of people talking into terrible mics and then quit.
Podcasting became this area of the media that felt really authentic--where the people who were really good could get a shot even if they weren't the people with industry connections and tons of financial backing. And now that people with industry connections and financial backing are getting into it, this feels a bit ominous, like there's a revisionist tendency to dismiss everything that got made before as less professional just because they weren't scripted or heavily edited. You know which podcasts I let slip into my backlog first when I'm behind? The polished ones, because I don't care about them the same way.
posted by Sequence at 10:04 AM on April 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
I can get saying that maybe podcasts have been more of a tech/nerd thing generally, but calling it an "audio nerd" thing is very weird. And this stuff about "an amateur talk show recorded in someone’s garage"--yeah, I mean, a lot of these things are recorded in garages or spare bedrooms or whatever, but I don't see what makes it an "amateur talk show" when you have professionals talking together about things they're genuine experts on, just because they don't meet together in an expensive studio with an enormous production staff. I know there have been plenty of half-assed attempts at podcasting by lots of different people over time, but that particular phrase does not seem to be referring to the things that make it four episodes of people talking into terrible mics and then quit.
Podcasting became this area of the media that felt really authentic--where the people who were really good could get a shot even if they weren't the people with industry connections and tons of financial backing. And now that people with industry connections and financial backing are getting into it, this feels a bit ominous, like there's a revisionist tendency to dismiss everything that got made before as less professional just because they weren't scripted or heavily edited. You know which podcasts I let slip into my backlog first when I'm behind? The polished ones, because I don't care about them the same way.
posted by Sequence at 10:04 AM on April 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
I have fond memories of the Viking Youth Power Hour live panel at Esozone in 2007... at which point they'd been "on the air" for three years.
posted by zenwerewolf at 10:09 AM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by zenwerewolf at 10:09 AM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Even now, there are several different podcast "movements"
The fiction arena includes shaggy improv-comedies like Hello From the Magic Tavern; highbrow prestige dramas like Bronzeville, which has a cast of dozens led by Laurence Fishburne; episodic genre shows like Twilight Histories and more novelistic ones like The Black Tapes. And that's without counting Welcome to Nightvale, which is very much the Serial of this movement.
posted by Etrigan at 10:10 AM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
The fiction arena includes shaggy improv-comedies like Hello From the Magic Tavern; highbrow prestige dramas like Bronzeville, which has a cast of dozens led by Laurence Fishburne; episodic genre shows like Twilight Histories and more novelistic ones like The Black Tapes. And that's without counting Welcome to Nightvale, which is very much the Serial of this movement.
posted by Etrigan at 10:10 AM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
FTA: The Payne Lindseys of the world chase mysteries in their own haphazard fashion, while the Sarah Koenigs know how to apply a polished, professional gloss to the most chaotic investigations. But the big picture has, so far at least, eluded them.
Oh, poppycock. A "podcast" is just asynchronously available audio content. There is no "big picture" to find, it's lot of little pictures, good or bad in their own way; each with its own audience, large or small. And that's how it ought to be.
As a podcaster myself, it is endlessly irritating to be told I should emulate other, more successful podcasts. No thanks, listen to something else if you don't like our style. The world would be a pretty dull place if everything were the same.
posted by Hot Pastrami! at 10:10 AM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
Oh, poppycock. A "podcast" is just asynchronously available audio content. There is no "big picture" to find, it's lot of little pictures, good or bad in their own way; each with its own audience, large or small. And that's how it ought to be.
As a podcaster myself, it is endlessly irritating to be told I should emulate other, more successful podcasts. No thanks, listen to something else if you don't like our style. The world would be a pretty dull place if everything were the same.
posted by Hot Pastrami! at 10:10 AM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
I appreciate these comments. At times I thought my post was too negative.
posted by doctornemo at 10:13 AM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by doctornemo at 10:13 AM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Nice to know that I was part of the vanguard...personally enriching myself with highbrow content like This Week In Tech, since 2005...
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 10:16 AM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 10:16 AM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Was just chiming in to say the second link is my Mefi's own, doctornemo, but he outed himself as the author.
posted by terrapin at 10:17 AM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by terrapin at 10:17 AM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's weird that the New Republic article doesn't even mention comedy podcasts, right? I've been listening to comedy podcasts since 2005 and I'm definitely no "audio nerd." (What is an audio nerd?)
posted by something something at 10:19 AM on April 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by something something at 10:19 AM on April 6, 2017 [9 favorites]
As opposed to all those other art forms that allow one to be successful without being good or appealing.
To be fair, that's...probably a lot of them.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:24 AM on April 6, 2017
To be fair, that's...probably a lot of them.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:24 AM on April 6, 2017
Mostly though I'm just PSYCHED AS HELL at the idea that The Beef and Dairy Network Podcast might actually be parodying a real-live thing. Holy shit:
"There’s a podcast called Silage Talk, which is produced by Dairy Herd Management magazine. (“We’re kicking off a great new conversation about silage,” the first episode promises its listeners.)"
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:29 AM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
"There’s a podcast called Silage Talk, which is produced by Dairy Herd Management magazine. (“We’re kicking off a great new conversation about silage,” the first episode promises its listeners.)"
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:29 AM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
It's weird that the New Republic article doesn't even mention comedy podcasts, right? I've been listening to comedy podcasts since 2005 and I'm definitely no "audio nerd." (What is an audio nerd?)
But all podcasts are NPR and NPR certainly doesn't have any comedy shows.
Mostly though I'm just PSYCHED AS HELL at the idea that The Beef and Dairy Network Podcast might actually be parodying a real-live thing. Holy shit:
"There’s a podcast called Silage Talk, which is produced by Dairy Herd Management magazine. (“We’re kicking off a great new conversation about silage,” the first episode promises its listeners.)"
Ha! I noticed that too!
posted by kmz at 10:33 AM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
But all podcasts are NPR and NPR certainly doesn't have any comedy shows.
Mostly though I'm just PSYCHED AS HELL at the idea that The Beef and Dairy Network Podcast might actually be parodying a real-live thing. Holy shit:
"There’s a podcast called Silage Talk, which is produced by Dairy Herd Management magazine. (“We’re kicking off a great new conversation about silage,” the first episode promises its listeners.)"
Ha! I noticed that too!
posted by kmz at 10:33 AM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was Meh about upping my Maximum Fun donation this year until I saw I could GET A BEEF AND DAIRY NETWORK PIN OMG YAS 5TH MEAT
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:40 AM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:40 AM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
But all podcasts are NPR and NPR certainly doesn't have any comedy shows.
I dunno, I find Marketplace to be fucking hilarious
posted by Automocar at 10:41 AM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
I dunno, I find Marketplace to be fucking hilarious
posted by Automocar at 10:41 AM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think Dean is a good and interesting writer, but this piece... isn't. Oh well.
posted by that's candlepin at 10:45 AM on April 6, 2017
posted by that's candlepin at 10:45 AM on April 6, 2017
then you've got the comedian subgenre (pretty much started by WTF with Marc Maron)
WTF started in 2009, comedian podcasts were already a thing by then.
posted by drezdn at 10:49 AM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
WTF started in 2009, comedian podcasts were already a thing by then.
posted by drezdn at 10:49 AM on April 6, 2017 [7 favorites]
It seems the author is unaware that fiction exists on podcasts too - otherwise I'm not really sure how you classify Welcome to Night Vale. Which also happens to not be NPR, is popular enough to sell out major venues worldwide, and is pretty highly produced. The only way it fits this picture is in snobbery and specialization. And you can find any number of other shows that meet none of the criteria...what was the point of the article again?
posted by epanalepsis at 10:49 AM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by epanalepsis at 10:49 AM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
I am just SO grateful that Metafilter is not a podcast.
I imagine plodding slowly through the articles, then hearing each comment in its author's voice.
Shudder.
posted by hank at 10:52 AM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
I imagine plodding slowly through the articles, then hearing each comment in its author's voice.
Shudder.
posted by hank at 10:52 AM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
I was Meh about upping my Maximum Fun donation this year until I saw I could GET A BEEF AND DAIRY NETWORK PIN OMG YAS 5TH MEAT
I went for that one immediately too, since there's no BDN merch yet.
(Why oh why can I not buy a "Mitchell's Graze-X" shirt?)
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 10:53 AM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
I went for that one immediately too, since there's no BDN merch yet.
(Why oh why can I not buy a "Mitchell's Graze-X" shirt?)
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 10:53 AM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
what was the point of the article again?
oh shit i forgot to write an article and deadline is today oh shit oh shit calm down michelle you can do this just look around the train and get some inspiration nobody is doing anything i am fucked why wont someone do something they all have headphones on oh wait
wait
"Excuse me, what are you listening to?"
you done got it michelle
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:53 AM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
oh shit i forgot to write an article and deadline is today oh shit oh shit calm down michelle you can do this just look around the train and get some inspiration nobody is doing anything i am fucked why wont someone do something they all have headphones on oh wait
wait
"Excuse me, what are you listening to?"
you done got it michelle
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:53 AM on April 6, 2017 [10 favorites]
(Why oh why can I not buy a "Mitchell's Graze-X" shirt?)
Seriously. Get back in the truck, merch team.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:56 AM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Seriously. Get back in the truck, merch team.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:56 AM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
then you've got the comedian subgenre (pretty much started by WTF with Marc Maron)
Yeah don't try sayin' that to Tom Scharpling's face tho
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:00 AM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah don't try sayin' that to Tom Scharpling's face tho
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 11:00 AM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
then you've got the comedian subgenre (pretty much started by WTF with Marc Maron)
WTF started in 2009, comedian podcasts were already a thing by then.
QFT. And even if you ignore the comedy podcasts that existed prior to '09, the writer seems totally unaware of the level to which that second wave of comedy pods, many of which coalesced around Scott Aukerman's Earwolf and Chris Hardwick's Nerdist networks, helped to influence the current entertainment landscape. It seems like half of the sitcoms and cartoons I watch these days are either created by or feature people who built up a fan following through podcasts.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:08 AM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
WTF started in 2009, comedian podcasts were already a thing by then.
QFT. And even if you ignore the comedy podcasts that existed prior to '09, the writer seems totally unaware of the level to which that second wave of comedy pods, many of which coalesced around Scott Aukerman's Earwolf and Chris Hardwick's Nerdist networks, helped to influence the current entertainment landscape. It seems like half of the sitcoms and cartoons I watch these days are either created by or feature people who built up a fan following through podcasts.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:08 AM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
I also just did a Ctrl-F in the article for "McElroy" and came up empty. It's like trying to write an article about the history of Pop Art and never mentioning Warhol.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:13 AM on April 6, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:13 AM on April 6, 2017 [17 favorites]
then you've got the comedian subgenre (pretty much started by WTF with Marc Maron)...
Yeah don't try sayin' that to Tom Scharpling's face tho
Speaking of which...
From this week's Best Show: Tom Scharpling sings "Podcast Heroes"
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:18 AM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah don't try sayin' that to Tom Scharpling's face tho
Speaking of which...
From this week's Best Show: Tom Scharpling sings "Podcast Heroes"
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:18 AM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
WTF started in 2009, comedian podcasts were already a thing by then.
Well what do I know, I write for The New Republic
posted by Automocar at 11:54 AM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well what do I know, I write for The New Republic
posted by Automocar at 11:54 AM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
At times I thought my post was too negative.
CTRL-F "are you fucking kidding me with this shit"
0 of 0 results
Nah, you went pretty easy on the article.
posted by Etrigan at 11:56 AM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
CTRL-F "are you fucking kidding me with this shit"
0 of 0 results
Nah, you went pretty easy on the article.
posted by Etrigan at 11:56 AM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've run a tabletop RPG podcast for about 10 years now (Role Playing Public Radio) and I've made my living from it since 2014, thanks to Patreon. You don't need a huge audience, just a dedicated one.
posted by clockworkjoe at 11:58 AM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by clockworkjoe at 11:58 AM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
> Yeah don't try sayin' that to Tom Scharpling's face tho
Or Andy Zaltzman's.
posted by The corpse in the library at 12:00 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Or Andy Zaltzman's.
posted by The corpse in the library at 12:00 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
I still can't come to grips with why people today people categorize the smallest changes as revolutionary. A podcast is a audio show you can download. They broadcast them on the radio, there used to be LP's of them. We can download things now, why wouldn't we be able to download audio shows?
When video tape, and DVD etc. came out it was not an entirely new form of media, it was "now you can get movies on in a new format".
Then again, I think Amazon is a mail order store and Uber is unregulated taxis. When the telephone was invented and you could call a hotel and book a room people didn't decide that hotels were a revolutionary new business. But anything you access with a computer is a completely different thing today.
posted by bongo_x at 12:06 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
When video tape, and DVD etc. came out it was not an entirely new form of media, it was "now you can get movies on in a new format".
Then again, I think Amazon is a mail order store and Uber is unregulated taxis. When the telephone was invented and you could call a hotel and book a room people didn't decide that hotels were a revolutionary new business. But anything you access with a computer is a completely different thing today.
posted by bongo_x at 12:06 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
I am just SO grateful that Metafilter is not a podcast.
Ummmmm
posted by blue_beetle at 12:11 PM on April 6, 2017
Ummmmm
posted by blue_beetle at 12:11 PM on April 6, 2017
A podcast is a audio show you can download.On the one hand, that's true. But on the other hand, I think that podcasts are different from what came before. Unlike with radio, there's no gatekeeper. To have a radio show, you need access to a radio station, which needs to be licensed by a government. A radio show is also limited geographically and temporally, whereas podcasts can be downloaded anywhere and listened to at any time. And podcasts are different from LPs or tapes, too, because they're cheaper to produce and distribute and can feasibly be made much, much more frequently. It's hard to imagine a weekly comedy LP series. I think podcasts are a new form and not just a new technology, although a lot of them clearly build on pre-existing radio formats.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:15 PM on April 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
Counterpoint: community and college radio stations, where anything can get airtime, if not a dedicated radio show, where weird and off-kilter was celebrated. When I was on college radio, there was a DJ who would host a show dedicated to The Cramps, a band with only 8 albums, and none of them terribly long, so the host had a checklist of all their songs, to make sure she didn't repeat anything. This was a daytime show, and might be heard before a show dedicated to no wave music, or after a show dedicated to video games and video game music; as compared to the late-night weirdness of brutal metal and avant-garde noise.
And what I like about podcasting is that it's like listening to college radio. I get to listen to people talk about or make niche stuff that is never going to be large enough for mass market appeal but I can throw a couple bucks that way and help them keep going. Only I've got the option of figuring out which radio stations I should be listening to, so I don't have to deal with the one DJ that is really into Zappa.
It also feels a lot like old internet - people going in depth about whatever weird niche they're into, whether or not there's any mass market appeal - and making a little bit of a community around it. The world would be a lot less interesting if it was all NPR.
posted by dinty_moore at 12:26 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
And what I like about podcasting is that it's like listening to college radio. I get to listen to people talk about or make niche stuff that is never going to be large enough for mass market appeal but I can throw a couple bucks that way and help them keep going. Only I've got the option of figuring out which radio stations I should be listening to, so I don't have to deal with the one DJ that is really into Zappa.
It also feels a lot like old internet - people going in depth about whatever weird niche they're into, whether or not there's any mass market appeal - and making a little bit of a community around it. The world would be a lot less interesting if it was all NPR.
posted by dinty_moore at 12:26 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
On the one hand, that's true. But on the other hand, I think that podcasts are different from what came before. Unlike with radio, there's no gatekeeper. To have a radio show, you need access to a radio station, which needs to be licensed by a government. A radio show is also limited geographically and temporally, whereas podcasts can be downloaded anywhere and listened to at any time. And podcasts are different from LPs or tapes, too, because they're cheaper to produce and distribute and can feasibly be made much, much more frequently. It's hard to imagine a weekly comedy LP series. I think podcasts are a new form and not just a new technology, although a lot of them clearly build on pre-existing radio formats.
Yep yep yep. To make a possibly hackneyed analogy, books are books, but the printing press was still damn revolutionary.
posted by kmz at 12:31 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yep yep yep. To make a possibly hackneyed analogy, books are books, but the printing press was still damn revolutionary.
posted by kmz at 12:31 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
CTRL-F "supertrain"
0 of 0
THIS ARTICLE IS GARBAGE
posted by entropicamericana at 12:33 PM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
0 of 0
THIS ARTICLE IS GARBAGE
posted by entropicamericana at 12:33 PM on April 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
Counterpoint: community and college radio stations, where anything can get airtime, if not a dedicated radio show, where weird and off-kilter was celebrated. When I was on college radio, there was a DJ who would host a show dedicated to The Cramps,
There are several in Atlanta. A few years ago one of them played the Merzbow 50 CD set.
I know Serial was very popular, but the narrative about being the beginning of podcasts is so weird, like saying movies really began with Star Wars.
I think podcasts are a new form and not just a new technology, although a lot of them clearly build on pre-existing radio formats.
That's the part I don't get; what new form? Talk show? Drama? Music review? Documentary? Podcasts are all of those, and so are radio shows. Podcasts are a delivery format, "podcast" doesn't even really mean anything other than an audio show you can download, it could be anything. Like many things, they're easier to make and get because of technological advances. So are music albums, which have followed the exact same course, why aren't they a new form? What about video podcasts? People seem to accept those as just TV shows you can download.
Like I said, it's baffling to me how people make these distinctions as to what is revolutionary tech. I can mail order from Amazon and that's a whole new business, but if I order a pizza with the same smart phone that's just ordering a pizza, same as it ever was.
posted by bongo_x at 12:37 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
There are several in Atlanta. A few years ago one of them played the Merzbow 50 CD set.
I know Serial was very popular, but the narrative about being the beginning of podcasts is so weird, like saying movies really began with Star Wars.
I think podcasts are a new form and not just a new technology, although a lot of them clearly build on pre-existing radio formats.
That's the part I don't get; what new form? Talk show? Drama? Music review? Documentary? Podcasts are all of those, and so are radio shows. Podcasts are a delivery format, "podcast" doesn't even really mean anything other than an audio show you can download, it could be anything. Like many things, they're easier to make and get because of technological advances. So are music albums, which have followed the exact same course, why aren't they a new form? What about video podcasts? People seem to accept those as just TV shows you can download.
Like I said, it's baffling to me how people make these distinctions as to what is revolutionary tech. I can mail order from Amazon and that's a whole new business, but if I order a pizza with the same smart phone that's just ordering a pizza, same as it ever was.
posted by bongo_x at 12:37 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's kind of like saying television isn't anything different from filmed stage shows, though. The difference in the delivery format allows for a difference in media experience, though different genres might take advantage of those things differently, and we're still in the early years of figuring out how it can all work.
Like I said, it's baffling to me how people make these distinctions as to what is revolutionary tech. I can mail order from Amazon and that's a whole new business, but if I order a pizza with the same smart phone that's just ordering a pizza, same as it ever was.
That's because, with the exception of none pizza left beef, ordering pizza isn't an art form.
posted by dinty_moore at 1:19 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Like I said, it's baffling to me how people make these distinctions as to what is revolutionary tech. I can mail order from Amazon and that's a whole new business, but if I order a pizza with the same smart phone that's just ordering a pizza, same as it ever was.
That's because, with the exception of none pizza left beef, ordering pizza isn't an art form.
posted by dinty_moore at 1:19 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
A silage podcast is worthless without the invention of Smell-O-Phony.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 1:19 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 1:19 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
That's kind of like saying television isn't anything different from filmed stage shows, though.
You could probably also make an argument that "television" shows designed to be binge-watched are a different medium than the old "one episode a week" model.
posted by Automocar at 1:35 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
You could probably also make an argument that "television" shows designed to be binge-watched are a different medium than the old "one episode a week" model.
posted by Automocar at 1:35 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
“We’re kicking off a great new conversation about silage,” the first episode promises its listeners.
In the its-a-funny-old-world-innit column, I know of at least a few people who really, really want to be a part of that conversation. To the point of having taken multiple trips to various parts of Europe to have those coversations even.
posted by bonehead at 1:37 PM on April 6, 2017
In the its-a-funny-old-world-innit column, I know of at least a few people who really, really want to be a part of that conversation. To the point of having taken multiple trips to various parts of Europe to have those coversations even.
posted by bonehead at 1:37 PM on April 6, 2017
This is genuinely quite a compelling podcast:
Episode 11 of Silage talk on the Cattle Network.
I am currently learning about the 2016 forage scene.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 1:45 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
Episode 11 of Silage talk on the Cattle Network.
I am currently learning about the 2016 forage scene.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 1:45 PM on April 6, 2017 [2 favorites]
You could probably also make an argument that "television" shows designed to be binge-watched are a different medium than the old "one episode a week" model.
It's certainly changed things - you can watch old sitcoms and procedurals from the 70's where they were obviously running low on time so they just tacked on an old bump from a season or two back before the credits. The expectations were that an audience was going to only watch an episode once, they wouldn't expect them to remember that they'd already seen that scene a year or two before.
And of course, there's more serialization - and expectations of serialization - than there ever was in the syndication model. TV can also demand more from the viewers because you can easily rewind or pause.
I think the difference between that and podcasting are that the content creators for netflix shows and for network/cable TV are the same people (for the most part). With podcasting vs. radio, it's closer to looking at all streamed video on the internet - from Let's Plays to Netflix.
posted by dinty_moore at 1:46 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's certainly changed things - you can watch old sitcoms and procedurals from the 70's where they were obviously running low on time so they just tacked on an old bump from a season or two back before the credits. The expectations were that an audience was going to only watch an episode once, they wouldn't expect them to remember that they'd already seen that scene a year or two before.
And of course, there's more serialization - and expectations of serialization - than there ever was in the syndication model. TV can also demand more from the viewers because you can easily rewind or pause.
I think the difference between that and podcasting are that the content creators for netflix shows and for network/cable TV are the same people (for the most part). With podcasting vs. radio, it's closer to looking at all streamed video on the internet - from Let's Plays to Netflix.
posted by dinty_moore at 1:46 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
I know Serial was very popular, but the narrative about being the beginning of podcasts is so weird, like saying movies really began with Star Wars.
At least Star Wars actually did something to push the medium forward with regard to visual effects. Serial is pretty much just a multi-part radio documentary in much the same style of its parent program, This American Life. The analogy in my mind is much stranger: It's like saying that Law & Order: SVU was the beginning of television, in that it ignores the very popular program that it spun off of, as well the entire history of the medium up to that point.
posted by Strange Interlude at 2:05 PM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
At least Star Wars actually did something to push the medium forward with regard to visual effects. Serial is pretty much just a multi-part radio documentary in much the same style of its parent program, This American Life. The analogy in my mind is much stranger: It's like saying that Law & Order: SVU was the beginning of television, in that it ignores the very popular program that it spun off of, as well the entire history of the medium up to that point.
posted by Strange Interlude at 2:05 PM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
You could probably also make an argument that "television" shows designed to be binge-watched are a different medium than the old "one episode a week" model.How about this: with on-demand TV, there's no requirement that every episode is a standardized length. Broadcast TV has to fit on a TV schedule, so each episode has to be a half-hour or an hour or two hours or whatever, and typically every episode has to be the same length. But that's not true for on-demand TV. If you can tell that installment of the story well in 52 minutes, you don't have to pad it to get to an hour. If you have 68 minutes of great stuff, you don't have to cut it down to 60 minutes. If episode is 52 minutes long and the next one is 68 minutes long, that's fine. That's a really big difference.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:34 PM on April 6, 2017 [8 favorites]
Sure. But I think it's deeper than that--the expectation that your audience has seen all previous episodes has changed the way television tells its stories in a very interesting way. I mean, Game of Thrones is essentially an enormously long movie, that most of the time doesn't even pretend to hew to any sort of episodic structure.
posted by Automocar at 3:13 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Automocar at 3:13 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
...what was the point of the article again?
To desperately promote the idea that NPR is still relevant and worth contributing to?
I mean when you start from a premise like that, little connections with the real world like a knowledge of history or the nature of the audience fall by the wayside.
posted by happyroach at 3:18 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
To desperately promote the idea that NPR is still relevant and worth contributing to?
I mean when you start from a premise like that, little connections with the real world like a knowledge of history or the nature of the audience fall by the wayside.
posted by happyroach at 3:18 PM on April 6, 2017 [3 favorites]
A podcast is a audio show you can download.Yes, and also a video show you can download! (iTunes' video section is worth a browse if that's a surprising fact.)
Podcasts are mostly audio because it's relatively cheap and easy to make. But I think with the combination of (1) YouTube's ever-tightening noose on creators, (2) a generation very comfortable with creating video, and (3) the inevitable introduction of YouTube-easy services for podcast creation, open web video distribution may someday flourish.
(Or, the efforts to embrace/extend/extinguish podcasting by Amazon, Spotify, Google and others could could kill open audio/video distribution. Either way.)
posted by ArmandoAkimbo at 4:47 PM on April 6, 2017 [1 favorite]
Heh.
Earlier this year the Answer Me This folks talked about how close they came to stopping, 2016 being a crap year for humor after all. Also, "we started back in 2006, eight years before Serial had invented podcasting."
posted by mark k at 8:07 PM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
Earlier this year the Answer Me This folks talked about how close they came to stopping, 2016 being a crap year for humor after all. Also, "we started back in 2006, eight years before Serial had invented podcasting."
posted by mark k at 8:07 PM on April 6, 2017 [6 favorites]
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