Why You Should Aim for 100 Rejections a Year
April 13, 2017 8:36 AM Subscribe
I asked her what her secret was, and she said something that would change my professional life as a writer: “Collect rejections. Set rejection goals. I know someone who shoots for one hundred rejections in a year, because if you work that hard to get so many rejections, you’re sure to get a few acceptances, too.”
Interesting article. I enjoy writing pitches, but only because I enjoy hitting the bulls-eye, trying to anticipate beforehand what an editor wants, and then being able to propose something that meets their needs on my very first try.
If I'm pitching someplace that doesn't know me, I generally spend at least an hour crafting my pitch. That hour represents an opportunity cost for me; if I am rejected, I have just gone an hour without getting paid. So it's important to nail that pitch on the first try.
The problem is that freelancing for magazines doesn't pay that much. I'm not sure why anybody does it, actually. I make more money (enough to support my family on a single income) as a marketing copywriter. There is a way to earn the same revenue as a magazine writer, but it would pitching articles about things I don't really care about.
It's much less work, and more lucrative, to just do copywriting. But I enjoy writing a good pitch.
posted by My Dad at 8:47 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
If I'm pitching someplace that doesn't know me, I generally spend at least an hour crafting my pitch. That hour represents an opportunity cost for me; if I am rejected, I have just gone an hour without getting paid. So it's important to nail that pitch on the first try.
The problem is that freelancing for magazines doesn't pay that much. I'm not sure why anybody does it, actually. I make more money (enough to support my family on a single income) as a marketing copywriter. There is a way to earn the same revenue as a magazine writer, but it would pitching articles about things I don't really care about.
It's much less work, and more lucrative, to just do copywriting. But I enjoy writing a good pitch.
posted by My Dad at 8:47 AM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's in the blood, I think, My Dad.
posted by infini at 9:21 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by infini at 9:21 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wow, thanks showbiz_liz!
posted by snsranch at 9:28 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by snsranch at 9:28 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's in the blood
Yeah, I have a Creative Writing degree, so I definitely get that. Had that. I can write a Raymond Carver-esque short story, for sure. I'd like to be "more creative", but with a family it just seems irresponsible to me to be selfish enough to devote time to pitching short stories to magazines. I'd like to hear what other writers with bills and kids and so on have to say, though!
posted by My Dad at 9:42 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I have a Creative Writing degree, so I definitely get that. Had that. I can write a Raymond Carver-esque short story, for sure. I'd like to be "more creative", but with a family it just seems irresponsible to me to be selfish enough to devote time to pitching short stories to magazines. I'd like to hear what other writers with bills and kids and so on have to say, though!
posted by My Dad at 9:42 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wow, thanks showbiz_liz!
Your Ask post is the thing that reminded me of this article! I read it a year or so ago and it stuck with me.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:08 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Your Ask post is the thing that reminded me of this article! I read it a year or so ago and it stuck with me.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:08 AM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'd like to hear what other writers with bills and kids and so on have to say, though!
I'm not at the level you're at, but as a person with a lucrative-enough full-time job and bills, the only thing that makes me actually WRITE-write is considering it a hobby. A super intensive hobby that I'm devoted to constantly improving at, but still a hobby. If I let myself start thinking "this could be my career or at least my lucrative side-gig and oh also I'm totes gonna win a Nebula someday" then it's paralyzing. I feel like I'm more successful if I treat it as less important to me, perversely. That's why this article resonated with me so much.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:11 AM on April 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
I'm not at the level you're at, but as a person with a lucrative-enough full-time job and bills, the only thing that makes me actually WRITE-write is considering it a hobby. A super intensive hobby that I'm devoted to constantly improving at, but still a hobby. If I let myself start thinking "this could be my career or at least my lucrative side-gig and oh also I'm totes gonna win a Nebula someday" then it's paralyzing. I feel like I'm more successful if I treat it as less important to me, perversely. That's why this article resonated with me so much.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:11 AM on April 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
I did some casting about when I had finished volume one of my steampunk/weird west fantasy and jebus, I came to the conclusion I sucked at writing queries or summaries or something because I didn't get a single nibble. I guess I should be less selective on which agents I send my queries to and send a whole lot more.
posted by Ber at 10:21 AM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Ber at 10:21 AM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
As a lit journal editor, I must point out that it doesn't count if you deliberately submit half-baked work just so you'll get a rejection letter. Letter of the law, spirit of the law, etc. etc.
posted by JohnFromGR at 10:27 AM on April 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by JohnFromGR at 10:27 AM on April 13, 2017 [7 favorites]
I kinda thought this was a given...
By the time I was fourteen … the nail in my wall would no longer support the weight of the rejection slips impaled upon it. I replaced the nail with a spike and kept on writing.
On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft, Stephen King
It is true, I think, that these are times when the financial rewards for sorry writing are much greater than those for good writ- ing. There are certain cases in which, if you can only learn to write poorly enough, you can make a great deal of money. But it is not true that if you write well, you won't get published at all. It is true that if you want to write well and live well at the same time, you'd better arrange to inherit money or marry a stockbroker or a rich woman who can operate a typewriter.
Mystery and Manners, Flannery O'Connor
And many, many more...
posted by lazycomputerkids at 11:46 AM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
By the time I was fourteen … the nail in my wall would no longer support the weight of the rejection slips impaled upon it. I replaced the nail with a spike and kept on writing.
On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft, Stephen King
It is true, I think, that these are times when the financial rewards for sorry writing are much greater than those for good writ- ing. There are certain cases in which, if you can only learn to write poorly enough, you can make a great deal of money. But it is not true that if you write well, you won't get published at all. It is true that if you want to write well and live well at the same time, you'd better arrange to inherit money or marry a stockbroker or a rich woman who can operate a typewriter.
Mystery and Manners, Flannery O'Connor
And many, many more...
posted by lazycomputerkids at 11:46 AM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm not at the level you're at, but as a person with a lucrative-enough full-time job and bills, the only thing that makes me actually WRITE-write is considering it a hobby. A super intensive hobby that I'm devoted to constantly improving at, but still a hobby. If I let myself start thinking "this could be my career or at least my lucrative side-gig and oh also I'm totes gonna win a Nebula someday" then it's paralyzing. I feel like I'm more successful if I treat it as less important to me, perversely. That's why this article resonated with me so much.
Yeah, this is pretty much how I'm staying sane writing and submitting poetry. The Big Time for poetry usually isn't writing as a career, it's just having a sizeable readership — but even aiming for that feels paralyzing. When I think of it as a hobby, and my goal as connecting with other hobbyists who share my own weird niche, it's easier to keep going. Getting in Guernica or Rattle or whatever would be cool — but finding out that one person out there legitimately likes reading religious poetry by angry trans queers is a different kind of cool and honestly way more likely to happen so uh what the hell let's aim for that.
(Though I have to say, even thinking of it as a hobby and even taking "aim for a ton of rejections" as my goal, each rejection email still stings. I'm not sure if the people who say they get over it are wired super differently than me or just fibbing to keep their spirits up...)
posted by nebulawindphone at 12:46 PM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, this is pretty much how I'm staying sane writing and submitting poetry. The Big Time for poetry usually isn't writing as a career, it's just having a sizeable readership — but even aiming for that feels paralyzing. When I think of it as a hobby, and my goal as connecting with other hobbyists who share my own weird niche, it's easier to keep going. Getting in Guernica or Rattle or whatever would be cool — but finding out that one person out there legitimately likes reading religious poetry by angry trans queers is a different kind of cool and honestly way more likely to happen so uh what the hell let's aim for that.
(Though I have to say, even thinking of it as a hobby and even taking "aim for a ton of rejections" as my goal, each rejection email still stings. I'm not sure if the people who say they get over it are wired super differently than me or just fibbing to keep their spirits up...)
posted by nebulawindphone at 12:46 PM on April 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Back in the mid-80's the band I mixed sound for had a Fenway rehearsal space across the hall from a space occupied by a band named, if I recall correctly, The Pixies. They posted all of their rejection letters on the walls of their rehearsal space.
They were a nice bunch. I wonder what ever happened to them?
posted by ZenMasterThis at 1:07 PM on April 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
They were a nice bunch. I wonder what ever happened to them?
posted by ZenMasterThis at 1:07 PM on April 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
As Gore Vidal once said about another of piece of conventional wisdom (Write what you know): This is good advice for bad writers.
To my mind the rejection letter is a badge of shame.
posted by Modest House at 1:38 PM on April 13, 2017
To my mind the rejection letter is a badge of shame.
posted by Modest House at 1:38 PM on April 13, 2017
Umm... you can have some of my rejections.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:46 PM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:46 PM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
To my mind the rejection letter is a badge of shame.
But there isn't an author alive who NEVER gets rejected!
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:21 PM on April 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
But there isn't an author alive who NEVER gets rejected!
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:21 PM on April 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Great essay! When I sent out my first short story for consideration, the first place I sent it was the Paris Review. Not that I would have minded being published in the Paris Review, but getting their xeroxed rejection slip (not even a letter, it was 3" by 5") was a nice "well, that didn't hurt so much, did it" moment. I put that little slip in a frame. (Yes, I had read On Writing.) (Also, that short story was soon accepted by a literary journal in El Cerrito, a nice boost of encouragement.)
Now I have a full-on novel I want to try to get published, and the thought of the process is so daunting I haven't even begun to begin it. To my mind, the month I've just spent not taking any action is much more an indictment than a rejection. I definitely need to roll up my sleeves and start collecting those rejections.
posted by ejs at 3:33 PM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Now I have a full-on novel I want to try to get published, and the thought of the process is so daunting I haven't even begun to begin it. To my mind, the month I've just spent not taking any action is much more an indictment than a rejection. I definitely need to roll up my sleeves and start collecting those rejections.
posted by ejs at 3:33 PM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
What I want to know is, when do you take them seriously? I've gotten lots of rejections, they come with the territory; editors like different things. But I have one piece (that I really like) that has now over 50 rejections. Should I keep on plugging, or is it time for a rewrite?
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 3:44 PM on April 13, 2017
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 3:44 PM on April 13, 2017
I've written hundreds of stories and have never sent anything out for publication. It's never really occurred to me. I think that's because I have an outlet through my website/mailing list. However, I'm now semi-retired and have to think about something to bring in a bit of money so am considering sending things out.
What's the best resource as a "how-to" approach that aspect of writing? Or is it just a cover letter and story in an envelope with a SASE?
posted by dobbs at 3:46 PM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
What's the best resource as a "how-to" approach that aspect of writing? Or is it just a cover letter and story in an envelope with a SASE?
posted by dobbs at 3:46 PM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
To my mind the rejection letter is a badge of shame.And now I'm curious about how many things you've had published!
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:14 PM on April 13, 2017
What's the best resource as a "how-to" approach that aspect of writing? Or is it just a cover letter and story in an envelope with a SASE?
You'd only want to physically send a story in an envelope if the publication specifically requested that you do so - they'll all have their own posted submission guidelines, which will differ. Lots of places these days just take email submissions. Some won't want cover letters. Etc.
Whichever way you send it in, you need to format it correctly. They are apparently insanely picky about this. Failing to follow those guidelines might result in your story getting tossed out unread.
Now, a word of warning:
I think that's because I have an outlet through my website/mailing list.
A lot of (maybe even the majority of) publications won't accept submissions that have previously been published - which includes self-publishing online. You might be ok with stuff that's only appeared in your emails (though I'm actually not sure about that), but if it's on your website and publicly viewable, it definitely counts as published (even if you delete it). You could wind up getting blackballed from a publication if they accept a story and then discover that it's already published, unless their guidelines say it's ok.
As for finding places to submit to - I posted this yesterday for snsranch (note that any pros may have adds or corrections!):
There are a brillion bazillion places you could submit your stuff to, and to find them you should definitely check out The Submission Grinder. You can search markets (meaning magazines+websites+podcasts+contests+whatever) by subject matter, pay scale, % acceptance rate, etc. Find a few that seem interesting and then check out their websites to see what kind of stuff they publish, and see if any of them seem up your alley!
Then you wanna look at two things: how long their typical response time is, and whether they accept simultaneous submissions. If they accept simultaneous submissions, then you can send it there and also to any other market that accepts simultaneous submissions at the same time. If not, then you have to wait for a rejection from them before submitting it someplace else. Your strategy here depends on what your goals are - it might be fine to wait for a few months to hear from a place you really love, or you may want to blast it out to a bunch of different less prestigious markets. YMMV.
To which Prunesquallor added:
Counter-intuitive advice: Submit to the pro-paying venues first. I've had the same story rejected from "token payment" venues and then accepted by prestigious pro venues, so you may as well aim high. As shobiz-liz mentioned, it's bad form to submit the same story to multiple places at once (unless they specifically say it's OK), so for the sake of efficiency, I'd suggest finding places with short response times (Clarkesworld and Lightspeed are both pro paying venues with very fast response times). But be prepared for a ton of form rejection letters. Detailed feedback is rare (and acceptances even rarer). The key to getting published is persistence. As soon as a story is rejected, send it out again.
In snsranch's thread I also posted some sites where you can get your stuff critiqued by others if you want.
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:19 PM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
You'd only want to physically send a story in an envelope if the publication specifically requested that you do so - they'll all have their own posted submission guidelines, which will differ. Lots of places these days just take email submissions. Some won't want cover letters. Etc.
Whichever way you send it in, you need to format it correctly. They are apparently insanely picky about this. Failing to follow those guidelines might result in your story getting tossed out unread.
Now, a word of warning:
I think that's because I have an outlet through my website/mailing list.
A lot of (maybe even the majority of) publications won't accept submissions that have previously been published - which includes self-publishing online. You might be ok with stuff that's only appeared in your emails (though I'm actually not sure about that), but if it's on your website and publicly viewable, it definitely counts as published (even if you delete it). You could wind up getting blackballed from a publication if they accept a story and then discover that it's already published, unless their guidelines say it's ok.
As for finding places to submit to - I posted this yesterday for snsranch (note that any pros may have adds or corrections!):
There are a brillion bazillion places you could submit your stuff to, and to find them you should definitely check out The Submission Grinder. You can search markets (meaning magazines+websites+podcasts+contests+whatever) by subject matter, pay scale, % acceptance rate, etc. Find a few that seem interesting and then check out their websites to see what kind of stuff they publish, and see if any of them seem up your alley!
Then you wanna look at two things: how long their typical response time is, and whether they accept simultaneous submissions. If they accept simultaneous submissions, then you can send it there and also to any other market that accepts simultaneous submissions at the same time. If not, then you have to wait for a rejection from them before submitting it someplace else. Your strategy here depends on what your goals are - it might be fine to wait for a few months to hear from a place you really love, or you may want to blast it out to a bunch of different less prestigious markets. YMMV.
To which Prunesquallor added:
Counter-intuitive advice: Submit to the pro-paying venues first. I've had the same story rejected from "token payment" venues and then accepted by prestigious pro venues, so you may as well aim high. As shobiz-liz mentioned, it's bad form to submit the same story to multiple places at once (unless they specifically say it's OK), so for the sake of efficiency, I'd suggest finding places with short response times (Clarkesworld and Lightspeed are both pro paying venues with very fast response times). But be prepared for a ton of form rejection letters. Detailed feedback is rare (and acceptances even rarer). The key to getting published is persistence. As soon as a story is rejected, send it out again.
In snsranch's thread I also posted some sites where you can get your stuff critiqued by others if you want.
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:19 PM on April 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
(I got most of this information from my in-person critique group, which is geared toward getting stories to a publishable level, and also from various sites/forums about short fiction publishing.)
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:21 PM on April 13, 2017
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:21 PM on April 13, 2017
And now I'm curious about how many things you've had published!
Quite a bit, really. I've had rejections, but I wouldn't revel in them.
posted by Modest House at 5:44 PM on April 13, 2017
Quite a bit, really. I've had rejections, but I wouldn't revel in them.
posted by Modest House at 5:44 PM on April 13, 2017
A quick question about formatting. I have noticed that many agents require you post a sample (or a complete story) in an email and they refuse attachments. Copy and paste into something like Gmail really strips and mangles any attempt to format. So does strict double-spacing, margins, etc. matter when submitting by email?
posted by Ber at 7:09 PM on April 13, 2017
posted by Ber at 7:09 PM on April 13, 2017
A friend with ambitious aspirations disagreed. “Always submit to the New Yorker, Tin House, The Paris Review! Why not? You have nothing to lose. I see it as a challenge; the minute AGNI rejects me, I send them something else, that day!”
This is kind of at the root of my philosophy of applying to long-shots (though mine's a little broader than just literary submissions). You never know - and hell, I've gotten Yeses from places I didn't think would care.
In contrast to a few people here, I've found that I tended to fare way better when I put less care in my pitches or applications. The apps I craft studiously are kinda eh luck-wise; the ones I jot out in five seconds somehow are more successful. I just got a trial run with this publication I've been trying to get a job at for YEARS and my latest app with them was almost literally "You know me, just see my previous applications".
posted by divabat at 7:23 PM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is kind of at the root of my philosophy of applying to long-shots (though mine's a little broader than just literary submissions). You never know - and hell, I've gotten Yeses from places I didn't think would care.
In contrast to a few people here, I've found that I tended to fare way better when I put less care in my pitches or applications. The apps I craft studiously are kinda eh luck-wise; the ones I jot out in five seconds somehow are more successful. I just got a trial run with this publication I've been trying to get a job at for YEARS and my latest app with them was almost literally "You know me, just see my previous applications".
posted by divabat at 7:23 PM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
A quick question about formatting. I have noticed that many agents require you post a sample (or a complete story) in an email and they refuse attachments. Copy and paste into something like Gmail really strips and mangles any attempt to format. So does strict double-spacing, margins, etc. matter when submitting by email?
I'd imagine that a place that wants submissions like these would be less concerned about things like spacing and margins - check all of their formatting requirements, every place is different.
posted by divabat at 7:24 PM on April 13, 2017
I'd imagine that a place that wants submissions like these would be less concerned about things like spacing and margins - check all of their formatting requirements, every place is different.
posted by divabat at 7:24 PM on April 13, 2017
A quick question about formatting. I have noticed that many agents require you post a sample (or a complete story) in an email and they refuse attachments. Copy and paste into something like Gmail really strips and mangles any attempt to format. So does strict double-spacing, margins, etc. matter when submitting by email?
All the stuff I posted above only applies to short stories (and in particular short SF because that's my genre), and not to querying agents for novels, which I don't know too much about (and definitely not to pitching nonfiction articles, which I know absolutely zero about). With those caveats: I think this is rarely if ever the case. In those cases you'd just paste it as whatever the default email font is. They would tell you if they wanted it done differently.
I've never actually heard of querying for a short story rather than just submitting it - only of querying for novels. When you submit a short story someplace, they're gonna read it and make their decision and then tell you if they're going to publish it or not, and you won't hear from them in between (except maybe in a rare case where they really want to publish it but want you to make or approve some specific change). But when you're querying for a novel, they will read your query letter and sample and then decide based on those things if they're potentially interested in seeing the rest of the novel, and if so, then they'll ask you to send them the rest of it, and then they'll read that, and then they'll decide if they want to represent you.
Which is why they need short stories to be formatted in manuscript format but not queries!
The general procedure for short stories is, it gets printed out and read by someone whose job it is to weed out the crap - and, if they don't toss it right away, they'll maybe jot a few notes onto it and then send it up the ladder to someone else, who will mark it up with comments and maybe edits. Then they'll sort through those stories and pick the ones they want to publish (sometimes multiple rounds of this happen). In that formatting guide I posted, it goes so far as to say that you shouldn't put page numbers on the upper left corner because that's where they paper-clip the hard copy.
But an agent or their underling reading queries doesn't need to bother with all that, because the query isn't a final product that they need to mark up, it's really more like a resume and cover letter.
So - the reason that you have to format a short story submission in manuscript format is, it's easier to make handwritten notes on double-spaced monotype. If you hear back from an agent who wants a full draft of your novel - then they almost certainly WILL want it in manuscript format.
(Jeez, I do go on about this stuff considering my utter lack of being published! At least I can say I've been actively writing at the same time as I've been picking all this shit up, rather than just reading about it and daydreaming...)
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:48 PM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
All the stuff I posted above only applies to short stories (and in particular short SF because that's my genre), and not to querying agents for novels, which I don't know too much about (and definitely not to pitching nonfiction articles, which I know absolutely zero about). With those caveats: I think this is rarely if ever the case. In those cases you'd just paste it as whatever the default email font is. They would tell you if they wanted it done differently.
I've never actually heard of querying for a short story rather than just submitting it - only of querying for novels. When you submit a short story someplace, they're gonna read it and make their decision and then tell you if they're going to publish it or not, and you won't hear from them in between (except maybe in a rare case where they really want to publish it but want you to make or approve some specific change). But when you're querying for a novel, they will read your query letter and sample and then decide based on those things if they're potentially interested in seeing the rest of the novel, and if so, then they'll ask you to send them the rest of it, and then they'll read that, and then they'll decide if they want to represent you.
Which is why they need short stories to be formatted in manuscript format but not queries!
The general procedure for short stories is, it gets printed out and read by someone whose job it is to weed out the crap - and, if they don't toss it right away, they'll maybe jot a few notes onto it and then send it up the ladder to someone else, who will mark it up with comments and maybe edits. Then they'll sort through those stories and pick the ones they want to publish (sometimes multiple rounds of this happen). In that formatting guide I posted, it goes so far as to say that you shouldn't put page numbers on the upper left corner because that's where they paper-clip the hard copy.
But an agent or their underling reading queries doesn't need to bother with all that, because the query isn't a final product that they need to mark up, it's really more like a resume and cover letter.
So - the reason that you have to format a short story submission in manuscript format is, it's easier to make handwritten notes on double-spaced monotype. If you hear back from an agent who wants a full draft of your novel - then they almost certainly WILL want it in manuscript format.
(Jeez, I do go on about this stuff considering my utter lack of being published! At least I can say I've been actively writing at the same time as I've been picking all this shit up, rather than just reading about it and daydreaming...)
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:48 PM on April 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I only have one letter because I've been too timid about sending stuff. It was from the 90s and I have it framed somewhere.
something like this:
"Our publication, xyz, seeks surrealist, urban and upbeat stories. Your story "Suicide Line" does not meet our criteria"
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 9:49 PM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
something like this:
"Our publication, xyz, seeks surrealist, urban and upbeat stories. Your story "Suicide Line" does not meet our criteria"
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 9:49 PM on April 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
showbiz_liz:
"But there isn't an author alive who NEVER gets rejected!"
Actually, I've never had fiction work rejected. I sold the very first short story I wrote for submission, and as for the first two novels I wrote, I put them on my Web site rather than submit them to publishers, which is where editors found them and made offers for them. Subsequently, I've never had a novel proposal rejected, and I don't usually write shorter fiction unless it's solicited (which I am clear before accepting the solicitation means that it's bought). The closest to rejection I've had in fiction is when I withdrew a novel series proposal from a publisher; the publisher had solicited a proposal but then tried to lowball me after it had accepted the proposal. I took my bat and ball and went home. Currently, I have a very long contract for multiple novels, which means, basically, that I don't have to worry about a fiction rejection until at least 2027.
I am the first to point out that this is a very unusual set of circumstances. I essentially lucked into a fiction career (I had been writing nonfiction and doing consulting work happily enough), and became notable enough in my field quickly enough that people came to me for work rather than the other way around. I didn't have to build a reputation through submitting work. This also means that every bit of fiction I've ever written intended for publication has been sold; I have no "trunk" novels and no unpublished short stories, save for stories I wrote in high school, which were not intended for publication (they were written for classes or to amuse my friends). This is also fairly unusual for a fiction writer. I'll note this doesn't mean I'm amazing; it just means I did my "million words of practice" writing in other disciplines.
I suspect that in an era where writers don't have to submit work to be published -- when they can self-publish with relative ease -- you'll eventually find other authors who have never been rejected, because they self-published first, and then came to the attention of more traditional publishers after they had already built up a following, and then like me were in the position of being the gatekeeper to their own work, i.e., being the one to decide when to be published, rather than a publisher. The baseline assumptions of publishing have changed a bit in the last several years.
With that said, I've had rejections galore in non-fiction and also when I've gone to pitch in LA, and when I was in newspapers I was turned down for jobs I've applied to. My writing life outside fiction has gone far more typically.
With regard to Modest House's assertion that "the rejection letter is a badge of shame," lol, no. Let me put it this way: I guest-edited a magazine once where I had 600 submissions for twelve story slots. After eliminating the stories that were not at the level I wanted, I had 25 stories I wanted to publish -- but still only a dozen slots. I rejected more than a dozen stories I would have loved to publish because I didn't have space or budget for them. The idea that these writers should have felt shame because I wanted to publish them but couldn't is odious.
A rejection in writing doesn't automatically mean the work in question is a failure; it simply means that particular piece wasn't right for that particular venue at that particular time. When I was pitching stories for newspapers and magazines, back in the day, I would come in with a dozen story ideas or more and shoot them off rapid fire at the editor. The editor would go "no, no, no, no, yes, no, no, no, no, no, no, no." That was a 90+% rejection rate from the editor, and I still came out of it with a story assignment and money for rent. Should I as a writer have been ashamed of my eleven rejections in rapid order? Nah. I was happy I got a story, and a byline, and money. Rejection was just a part of the process, and not actually that big of a deal.
Which I think is to the point of the article waaaaay up at the top of the thread. I don't think you need to aim for a set number of rejections a month -- that seems like a lot of busy work -- but accepting that rejection in writing is part of a process and not automatically a referendum on your self worth as a human or a writer is a worthy thing, and I endorse it. I lucked into not having to deal with rejection in my fiction career, but if I ever am rejected for publication in fiction, I'm not going to be ashamed of it. I suspect I will mostly be amused.
posted by jscalzi at 4:12 AM on April 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
"But there isn't an author alive who NEVER gets rejected!"
Actually, I've never had fiction work rejected. I sold the very first short story I wrote for submission, and as for the first two novels I wrote, I put them on my Web site rather than submit them to publishers, which is where editors found them and made offers for them. Subsequently, I've never had a novel proposal rejected, and I don't usually write shorter fiction unless it's solicited (which I am clear before accepting the solicitation means that it's bought). The closest to rejection I've had in fiction is when I withdrew a novel series proposal from a publisher; the publisher had solicited a proposal but then tried to lowball me after it had accepted the proposal. I took my bat and ball and went home. Currently, I have a very long contract for multiple novels, which means, basically, that I don't have to worry about a fiction rejection until at least 2027.
I am the first to point out that this is a very unusual set of circumstances. I essentially lucked into a fiction career (I had been writing nonfiction and doing consulting work happily enough), and became notable enough in my field quickly enough that people came to me for work rather than the other way around. I didn't have to build a reputation through submitting work. This also means that every bit of fiction I've ever written intended for publication has been sold; I have no "trunk" novels and no unpublished short stories, save for stories I wrote in high school, which were not intended for publication (they were written for classes or to amuse my friends). This is also fairly unusual for a fiction writer. I'll note this doesn't mean I'm amazing; it just means I did my "million words of practice" writing in other disciplines.
I suspect that in an era where writers don't have to submit work to be published -- when they can self-publish with relative ease -- you'll eventually find other authors who have never been rejected, because they self-published first, and then came to the attention of more traditional publishers after they had already built up a following, and then like me were in the position of being the gatekeeper to their own work, i.e., being the one to decide when to be published, rather than a publisher. The baseline assumptions of publishing have changed a bit in the last several years.
With that said, I've had rejections galore in non-fiction and also when I've gone to pitch in LA, and when I was in newspapers I was turned down for jobs I've applied to. My writing life outside fiction has gone far more typically.
With regard to Modest House's assertion that "the rejection letter is a badge of shame," lol, no. Let me put it this way: I guest-edited a magazine once where I had 600 submissions for twelve story slots. After eliminating the stories that were not at the level I wanted, I had 25 stories I wanted to publish -- but still only a dozen slots. I rejected more than a dozen stories I would have loved to publish because I didn't have space or budget for them. The idea that these writers should have felt shame because I wanted to publish them but couldn't is odious.
A rejection in writing doesn't automatically mean the work in question is a failure; it simply means that particular piece wasn't right for that particular venue at that particular time. When I was pitching stories for newspapers and magazines, back in the day, I would come in with a dozen story ideas or more and shoot them off rapid fire at the editor. The editor would go "no, no, no, no, yes, no, no, no, no, no, no, no." That was a 90+% rejection rate from the editor, and I still came out of it with a story assignment and money for rent. Should I as a writer have been ashamed of my eleven rejections in rapid order? Nah. I was happy I got a story, and a byline, and money. Rejection was just a part of the process, and not actually that big of a deal.
Which I think is to the point of the article waaaaay up at the top of the thread. I don't think you need to aim for a set number of rejections a month -- that seems like a lot of busy work -- but accepting that rejection in writing is part of a process and not automatically a referendum on your self worth as a human or a writer is a worthy thing, and I endorse it. I lucked into not having to deal with rejection in my fiction career, but if I ever am rejected for publication in fiction, I'm not going to be ashamed of it. I suspect I will mostly be amused.
posted by jscalzi at 4:12 AM on April 14, 2017 [21 favorites]
If you don't submit your work out of fear of rejection, you still get a rejection letter. You just give it to yourself, rather than getting it from a publisher.
posted by Weftage at 6:13 AM on April 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Weftage at 6:13 AM on April 14, 2017 [12 favorites]
I have to admit that rejection letters are an incredibly painful experience to me. I threw out the first ones and later thought what a mistake that had been. But what makes a rejection much less crushing is a personal note from the person who sent it. Most of my rejection letters were impersonal forms (although, one was my own cover letter with "no, thanks" scribbled on it), but from time to time I'd get a little note saying: "This is really good, just not for us" or something similar, which made me think that maybe I'm not THAT bad.
However, after not having been able to even find an agent, I just sort of gave up. But this article makes me think that maybe I should try again. Thanks for posting it.
posted by I have no idea at 6:45 AM on April 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
However, after not having been able to even find an agent, I just sort of gave up. But this article makes me think that maybe I should try again. Thanks for posting it.
posted by I have no idea at 6:45 AM on April 14, 2017 [2 favorites]
Actually, I've never had fiction work rejected.
DAMN IT SCALZI
With that said, I've had rejections galore in non-fiction and also when I've gone to pitch in LA, and when I was in newspapers I was turned down for jobs I've applied to. My writing life outside fiction has gone far more typically.
oh thank god
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:16 AM on April 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
DAMN IT SCALZI
With that said, I've had rejections galore in non-fiction and also when I've gone to pitch in LA, and when I was in newspapers I was turned down for jobs I've applied to. My writing life outside fiction has gone far more typically.
oh thank god
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:16 AM on April 14, 2017 [6 favorites]
If you don't submit your work out of fear of rejection, you still get a rejection letter. You just give it to yourself, rather than getting it from a publisher.
I never thought of it that way, Weftage. That's a pretty profound way of looking at it. thanks for that.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 6:45 PM on April 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
I never thought of it that way, Weftage. That's a pretty profound way of looking at it. thanks for that.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 6:45 PM on April 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
... if you want to write well and live well at the same time, you’d better arrange to inherit money or marry a stockbroker or a rich woman who can operate a typewriter.
Which dates that quote. Many years back when I operated my own typewriter, I got invited to lecture about the mechanics of magazine writing at a community college English class. Haven’t been asked back anywhere since, but – in case I ever did – one day I added up all the different magazines that by that point had rejected me. “You want to be a writer?” I planned to say, “then start working on a list like this.”
It includes 250 different names (about six dozen of which also have published my stuff); I take a quiet satisfaction that a great many of those periodicals that turned me down are themselves today extinct, while I still am going.
I was talking rejections once with the now late (sadly, as of January), great Vermont writer Howard Frank Mosher, who got irritated one time at Harper’s, which didn’t like a story of his “because it had a traditional beginning, middle, and end.” He felt a lot better after tacking the rejection letter to the side of his old barn and using his shotgun, as he said, “to blow the living hell out of it.”
As jscalzi says, when many people vie for the small number of slots open in any publication (which already has its own staff writers as well), the odds are not favorable. You either get used to rejection or find some other way to occupy your time.
posted by LeLiLo at 10:03 PM on April 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
Which dates that quote. Many years back when I operated my own typewriter, I got invited to lecture about the mechanics of magazine writing at a community college English class. Haven’t been asked back anywhere since, but – in case I ever did – one day I added up all the different magazines that by that point had rejected me. “You want to be a writer?” I planned to say, “then start working on a list like this.”
It includes 250 different names (about six dozen of which also have published my stuff); I take a quiet satisfaction that a great many of those periodicals that turned me down are themselves today extinct, while I still am going.
I was talking rejections once with the now late (sadly, as of January), great Vermont writer Howard Frank Mosher, who got irritated one time at Harper’s, which didn’t like a story of his “because it had a traditional beginning, middle, and end.” He felt a lot better after tacking the rejection letter to the side of his old barn and using his shotgun, as he said, “to blow the living hell out of it.”
As jscalzi says, when many people vie for the small number of slots open in any publication (which already has its own staff writers as well), the odds are not favorable. You either get used to rejection or find some other way to occupy your time.
posted by LeLiLo at 10:03 PM on April 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
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posted by nubs at 8:46 AM on April 13, 2017 [5 favorites]