Big strides? No. But better steps to combating sexism in beer.
April 18, 2017 7:58 AM Subscribe
Brewers Association announces plans to crack down on offensive and sexist beer labels.
Also in beery news:
Last week saw the launch of Beer & Sexism, a website run by female brewers/brewery works/bartenders that wants you to submit your story about misogyny and sexism rampant in the industry they love.
*Brewery owner books sexist customer and posts a very good rant about why he did so.
*apologies for the Daily Kos link
My previously about this subject from February.
Also in beery news:
Last week saw the launch of Beer & Sexism, a website run by female brewers/brewery works/bartenders that wants you to submit your story about misogyny and sexism rampant in the industry they love.
*Brewery owner books sexist customer and posts a very good rant about why he did so.
*apologies for the Daily Kos link
My previously about this subject from February.
I would just like boobs/slurs/sexual innuendo that implies that women will do said sex acts if they drink this beer/etc to stop being on labels full stop. Again, if you need to name your beer something that demeans a woman or a minority, then your beer is probably shit.
posted by Kitteh at 8:20 AM on April 18, 2017 [42 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 8:20 AM on April 18, 2017 [42 favorites]
Oh, good lord, there's no need for a "OMG THE PC POLICE" over-reaction. It's not like they can't sell the beer. Hell, they can still win the award. Literally the only thing they can't do is market the beer using the award, which doesn't even come close to censorship.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:25 AM on April 18, 2017 [78 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 8:25 AM on April 18, 2017 [78 favorites]
And you have every right not to buy said sexboob beer. But telling someone else they can't make the joke if they want is wrong.
Good thing that nobody is saying that they can't make the joke, then. What they are saying is that if they want to make that joke, they will have to forgo the benefits of the prestige that winning the Great American Beer Festival awards ensues, because the Festival doesn't want to be associated with that sort of imagery anymore - a position they also have every right to.
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from the consequences of that speech.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:26 AM on April 18, 2017 [121 favorites]
Good thing that nobody is saying that they can't make the joke, then. What they are saying is that if they want to make that joke, they will have to forgo the benefits of the prestige that winning the Great American Beer Festival awards ensues, because the Festival doesn't want to be associated with that sort of imagery anymore - a position they also have every right to.
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from the consequences of that speech.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:26 AM on April 18, 2017 [121 favorites]
It's an adult beverage, for Christ sake, be an adult about it.
What is more of a signifier of adulthood: Finding genuine enjoyment in vulgarity, or understanding that other people aren't required to put up with your prurient jokes?
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 8:28 AM on April 18, 2017 [65 favorites]
What is more of a signifier of adulthood: Finding genuine enjoyment in vulgarity, or understanding that other people aren't required to put up with your prurient jokes?
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 8:28 AM on April 18, 2017 [65 favorites]
Note that this decision isn't telling anyone that they can't be sexist in their labeling. It is simply putting consequences to that kind of speech, something that the Brewer's Association is fully entitled to do. They have decided they don't want their award logos associated with sexism, and they can put whatever restrictions they want on the use of their own award logos.
Hopefully, this consequence will be incentive enough to change parts of the industry.
The notion that we should all "just be adult about it" is a good one -- let's move past the middle school jokes and act like thinking, empathetic, adult human beings who are capable of understanding that sexism is an insidious problem that needs to be expunged from all the many places it has taken root.
posted by cubby at 8:28 AM on April 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
Hopefully, this consequence will be incentive enough to change parts of the industry.
The notion that we should all "just be adult about it" is a good one -- let's move past the middle school jokes and act like thinking, empathetic, adult human beings who are capable of understanding that sexism is an insidious problem that needs to be expunged from all the many places it has taken root.
posted by cubby at 8:28 AM on April 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
..."Panty Peeler"?
A beer with a name like that could taste like God's tears of laughter and I'd still rather order a Coors Light.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:29 AM on April 18, 2017 [25 favorites]
A beer with a name like that could taste like God's tears of laughter and I'd still rather order a Coors Light.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:29 AM on April 18, 2017 [25 favorites]
I heard this last night on the Fuhentaboudit podcast. I can't listen to it right now to get the exact number, but they said something about there being 200+ (I think) beers registered with the word "panty" in it. This isn't an issue with adults making adult jokes on adult beverages, this is about a male-dominated industry being kinda gross sometimes.
This seems to be a totally appropriate way to curb that.
posted by piedmont at 8:29 AM on April 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
This seems to be a totally appropriate way to curb that.
posted by piedmont at 8:29 AM on April 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
> Let's say I, as a gay brewer, want to put cheeky man-butt on my label, maybe even call my ale Cheeky Man-Butt. Am I now disqualified,
Disqualified from what? Bearing the consequences of your actions, which are known to you? You can still win the award. If you want to put the "I won!" logo on your beer, change the label. Or is making "sexy" labels more important than making good beer?
posted by rtha at 8:29 AM on April 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
Disqualified from what? Bearing the consequences of your actions, which are known to you? You can still win the award. If you want to put the "I won!" logo on your beer, change the label. Or is making "sexy" labels more important than making good beer?
posted by rtha at 8:29 AM on April 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
Excellent news, and it seems to be a well-thought out process. Rooting out sexist advertising by denying advertising exposure seems just the thing.
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:34 AM on April 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:34 AM on April 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
What is going on that brewers can't self-police this?
And I say that as a criticism of the brewers and not the association.
posted by chrchr at 8:36 AM on April 18, 2017
And I say that as a criticism of the brewers and not the association.
posted by chrchr at 8:36 AM on April 18, 2017
Just skimming the 2016 GABF medalists: there are two beers with names that pun on "once you go black...". Two!
posted by uncleozzy at 8:37 AM on April 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 8:37 AM on April 18, 2017 [11 favorites]
Basically if a brewery is going to double down on calling a beer "Panty Peeler" or "Carpet Matches the Drapes" (to name a couple) then they've already sent a very clear signal about how they feel about the 32% and rising statistic of female craft beer drinkers.
Again, you can totes name your beers that, but the BA absolutely doesn't have to recognize that you did.
posted by Kitteh at 8:37 AM on April 18, 2017 [24 favorites]
Again, you can totes name your beers that, but the BA absolutely doesn't have to recognize that you did.
posted by Kitteh at 8:37 AM on April 18, 2017 [24 favorites]
Look, brewers, if freedom of speech is that important to you then just make a beer called "thirst amendment", problem solved.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 8:37 AM on April 18, 2017 [58 favorites]
posted by Jon Mitchell at 8:37 AM on April 18, 2017 [58 favorites]
What is going on that brewers can't self-police this?
Arguably the BA taking a (fairly gentle) stand against sexism is the industry starting to police itself.
It is annoying, though, that brewers pretty much universally do the voluntary "are you 21 or over" age-gates on their websites but are much less universally willing to consider voluntarily not being sexist assholes.
(My nope-not-buying-your-beer of the week: Belching Beaver's Me So Honey.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 8:58 AM on April 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
Arguably the BA taking a (fairly gentle) stand against sexism is the industry starting to police itself.
It is annoying, though, that brewers pretty much universally do the voluntary "are you 21 or over" age-gates on their websites but are much less universally willing to consider voluntarily not being sexist assholes.
(My nope-not-buying-your-beer of the week: Belching Beaver's Me So Honey.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 8:58 AM on April 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
The "blond(e) ale" thing is super weird and seems like a specifically USian bit of gratuitous sexism anyway? Since "blond" is French for "golden" and the name comes from Belgian beer (where it almost invariably takes the masculine "blond" form).
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 9:01 AM on April 18, 2017
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 9:01 AM on April 18, 2017
Wonder if this will impact Sweet Water Motor Boat...
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:02 AM on April 18, 2017
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:02 AM on April 18, 2017
What is more of a signifier of adulthood: Finding genuine enjoyment in vulgarity, or understanding that other people aren't required to put up with your prurient jokes?
Another possible signifier of adulthood is the ability to ignore vulgarity.
posted by therubettes at 9:17 AM on April 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
Another possible signifier of adulthood is the ability to ignore vulgarity.
posted by therubettes at 9:17 AM on April 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
But telling someone else they can't make the joke if they want is wrong.
Actually I can tell people anything I want because of my free speech rights. "Don't make the joooooooooooke", I can sing at them, "the joooooooooooooke is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad and grooooooooooooooooss, la la la, also un-or-ig-in-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaal, you can't maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit, yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck!". The tune is very clear in my head.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 9:19 AM on April 18, 2017 [62 favorites]
Actually I can tell people anything I want because of my free speech rights. "Don't make the joooooooooooke", I can sing at them, "the joooooooooooooke is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad and grooooooooooooooooss, la la la, also un-or-ig-in-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaal, you can't maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit, yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck!". The tune is very clear in my head.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 9:19 AM on April 18, 2017 [62 favorites]
Think I'll stick with my local cider house where the convention is naming everything after local Union soldiers and spies.
Every time this topic comes up (I am not a beer-drinker), and people post the names of some of these brews, I think "Wow, that one is super gross!" and then scroll a little bit and am like, "No, okay, that one is the grossest." And on and on to the bottom of the page.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:19 AM on April 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
Every time this topic comes up (I am not a beer-drinker), and people post the names of some of these brews, I think "Wow, that one is super gross!" and then scroll a little bit and am like, "No, okay, that one is the grossest." And on and on to the bottom of the page.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:19 AM on April 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
Another possible signifier of adulthood is the ability to ignore vulgarity.
Right, because the burden of dealing with objectification and stereotyping should always be on those who are its targets.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:21 AM on April 18, 2017 [73 favorites]
Right, because the burden of dealing with objectification and stereotyping should always be on those who are its targets.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:21 AM on April 18, 2017 [73 favorites]
This isn't just prurience or vulgarity, it's prurience or vulgarity in the service of sexism.
posted by saladin at 9:24 AM on April 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by saladin at 9:24 AM on April 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
By labeling this phenomenon as "vulgarity" you are missing the target by quite a lot.
Some of these names are implying that the alcohol contained in the bottle be used to rape women. That's a pretty far cry from "ha ha that tree limb looks like a dick." I'm under no obligation to ignore either attempt at humor but the rape joke is actually something that happened to me, so.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:25 AM on April 18, 2017 [44 favorites]
Some of these names are implying that the alcohol contained in the bottle be used to rape women. That's a pretty far cry from "ha ha that tree limb looks like a dick." I'm under no obligation to ignore either attempt at humor but the rape joke is actually something that happened to me, so.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:25 AM on April 18, 2017 [44 favorites]
One of our local breweries (with an excellent Citra IPA and a very nice weekly trivia night) has a brown ale [redacted because omgwtf]
Okay, that's the grossest.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:25 AM on April 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
Okay, that's the grossest.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:25 AM on April 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
If you really want to give your beer a gross name, go ahead! Call it "Belch-o-Rama" or "Big Crusty's Fart Factory" if you like. Just don't oppress people, and we'll be cool.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:28 AM on April 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:28 AM on April 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
And you have every right not to buy said sexboob beer. But telling someone else they can't make the joke if they want is wrong.
Let's say I, as a gay brewer, want to put cheeky man-butt on my label, maybe even call my ale Cheeky Man-Butt. Am I now disqualified, or is it only hetero sex jokes that are prurient?
It's an adult beverage, for Christ sake, be an adult about it.
This is such a perfect example of a gay man thinking that being gay gives him some sort of supernatural understanding of all bigotry and simultaneously gives him a get out of jail free card for being a misogynist that I am bookmarking it. The only thing better is that gif from a Bravo show of some dude being like "I'm gay, that means I can't be bigoted."
posted by schadenfrau at 9:29 AM on April 18, 2017 [68 favorites]
Let's say I, as a gay brewer, want to put cheeky man-butt on my label, maybe even call my ale Cheeky Man-Butt. Am I now disqualified, or is it only hetero sex jokes that are prurient?
It's an adult beverage, for Christ sake, be an adult about it.
This is such a perfect example of a gay man thinking that being gay gives him some sort of supernatural understanding of all bigotry and simultaneously gives him a get out of jail free card for being a misogynist that I am bookmarking it. The only thing better is that gif from a Bravo show of some dude being like "I'm gay, that means I can't be bigoted."
posted by schadenfrau at 9:29 AM on April 18, 2017 [68 favorites]
The "blond(e) ale" thing is super weird and seems like a specifically USian bit of gratuitous sexism anyway?
Nope, the UK is just as complicit. I interviewed one of the founders of Beer & Sexism on Sunday and there was a chunk of convo about beer brewers, regardless of where they are located in the English speaking brewing world, will jump on the blonde ale hackneyed sexism train.
posted by Kitteh at 9:29 AM on April 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Nope, the UK is just as complicit. I interviewed one of the founders of Beer & Sexism on Sunday and there was a chunk of convo about beer brewers, regardless of where they are located in the English speaking brewing world, will jump on the blonde ale hackneyed sexism train.
posted by Kitteh at 9:29 AM on April 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
"Blonde Ale Hackneyed Sexism Train" is going to be the name of my first album.
posted by JanetLand at 9:33 AM on April 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by JanetLand at 9:33 AM on April 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's an adult beverage, for Christ sake, be an adult about it.
It's a HUMAN beverage, for Christ's sake, be a HUMAN about it.
...And preferably do that somewhere far away, where I don't have to hear your sniggering, or have your beer displace something brewed by better people from my local packie's shelves.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:38 AM on April 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
It's a HUMAN beverage, for Christ's sake, be a HUMAN about it.
...And preferably do that somewhere far away, where I don't have to hear your sniggering, or have your beer displace something brewed by better people from my local packie's shelves.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:38 AM on April 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
there was a chunk of convo about beer brewers, regardless of where they are located in the English speaking brewing world, will jump on the blonde ale hackneyed sexism train.
I get the temptation but couldn't they call it, like, Marilyn Monroe or something? If you have to make some sort of reference to the blonde ale idea, I think there are acceptable and appropriate ways to do it but no, people would much rather be derivative and gross.
the Festival doesn't want to be associated with that sort of imagery anymore - a position they also have every right to.
This is a really interesting point and something I hadn't considered! Of course I think this is totally reasonable anyway because it's not censorship for a non-governmental organization to say "we aren't going to accept the gross thing you said" and I feel like that's strengthened by "if our name is literally going to be on the label of this beer, it's important for the sake of our organization that the name not be something we aren't comfortable condoning".
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 9:38 AM on April 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
I get the temptation but couldn't they call it, like, Marilyn Monroe or something? If you have to make some sort of reference to the blonde ale idea, I think there are acceptable and appropriate ways to do it but no, people would much rather be derivative and gross.
the Festival doesn't want to be associated with that sort of imagery anymore - a position they also have every right to.
This is a really interesting point and something I hadn't considered! Of course I think this is totally reasonable anyway because it's not censorship for a non-governmental organization to say "we aren't going to accept the gross thing you said" and I feel like that's strengthened by "if our name is literally going to be on the label of this beer, it's important for the sake of our organization that the name not be something we aren't comfortable condoning".
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 9:38 AM on April 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
Right, because the burden of dealing with objectification and stereotyping should always be on those who are its targets.
I guess I am the other side of the political-correctness fault line, particularly when the product in question is for adults.
From the article:
“There’s absolutely no black and white in this world, but we’re confident that the panel represents a decent cross-section of what the average adult individual might potentially think when viewing that advertising or text or brand name or label,”
The average beer drinking adult individual might potentially think the opposite.
posted by therubettes at 9:39 AM on April 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
I guess I am the other side of the political-correctness fault line, particularly when the product in question is for adults.
From the article:
“There’s absolutely no black and white in this world, but we’re confident that the panel represents a decent cross-section of what the average adult individual might potentially think when viewing that advertising or text or brand name or label,”
The average beer drinking adult individual might potentially think the opposite.
posted by therubettes at 9:39 AM on April 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
What is going on that brewers can't self-police this?
That's what this is, the industry self-policing. The BA is a voluntary trade organization composed of craft/micro-breweries, not a government agency. They've come together and decided on rules they want to follow.
posted by Sangermaine at 9:39 AM on April 18, 2017 [30 favorites]
That's what this is, the industry self-policing. The BA is a voluntary trade organization composed of craft/micro-breweries, not a government agency. They've come together and decided on rules they want to follow.
posted by Sangermaine at 9:39 AM on April 18, 2017 [30 favorites]
The Brown Note is a legitimately great brown ale, which IMO is a style much like cooking pork chops. Oftentimes, pork chops are bland, and they need additional ingredients to make the resultant dish interesting. Sometimes, a great cut of pork in and of itself can be delicious, but it depends on the source of pork, how the pigs were raised and slaughtered, how the butcher processed the meat, etc. For me, The Brown Note is a delicious cut of pork, but that label needs to be wiped from memory as it is gross for no other reason than to gather attention.
posted by stannate at 9:40 AM on April 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by stannate at 9:40 AM on April 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
I guess I am the other side of the political-correctness fault line, particularly when the product in question is for adults.
I think you mean: when the product in question is for men.
posted by Kitteh at 9:40 AM on April 18, 2017 [44 favorites]
I think you mean: when the product in question is for men.
posted by Kitteh at 9:40 AM on April 18, 2017 [44 favorites]
What is more of a signifier of adulthood: Finding genuine enjoyment in vulgarity, or understanding that other people aren't required to put up with your prurient jokes?
Another possible signifier of adulthood is the ability to ignore vulgarity.
Oh ffs, we've been over this. Ignoring vulgarity in this situation means that I would have to close my eyes and think happy thoughts every single time I drank a craft beer, because every. single. time. there is a whole slew of them on tap reminding me that everyone, everywhere, is making jokes about my anatomy.
Let's say I, as a gay brewer, want to put cheeky man-butt on my label, maybe even call my ale Cheeky Man-Butt. Am I now disqualified, or is it only hetero sex jokes that are prurient?
Also not ok!
One of our local breweries (with an excellent Citra IPA and a very nice weekly trivia night) has a brown ale whose artwork prominently features a man defecating into his clothing
COMPLETELY DIFFERENT REASONING BEHIND THIS BUT I AM EXTREMELY NOT OK WITH THIS WTF.
posted by chainsofreedom at 9:42 AM on April 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
Another possible signifier of adulthood is the ability to ignore vulgarity.
Oh ffs, we've been over this. Ignoring vulgarity in this situation means that I would have to close my eyes and think happy thoughts every single time I drank a craft beer, because every. single. time. there is a whole slew of them on tap reminding me that everyone, everywhere, is making jokes about my anatomy.
Let's say I, as a gay brewer, want to put cheeky man-butt on my label, maybe even call my ale Cheeky Man-Butt. Am I now disqualified, or is it only hetero sex jokes that are prurient?
Also not ok!
One of our local breweries (with an excellent Citra IPA and a very nice weekly trivia night) has a brown ale whose artwork prominently features a man defecating into his clothing
COMPLETELY DIFFERENT REASONING BEHIND THIS BUT I AM EXTREMELY NOT OK WITH THIS WTF.
posted by chainsofreedom at 9:42 AM on April 18, 2017 [8 favorites]
artwork prominently features a man defecating into his clothing
I was like, "no, it can't be like that" and I clicked the link and it is. In fact it's worse. I . . . I just . . . I don't get it. How is that supposed to sell beer? I get that sexism and misogyny sell beer, and that's terrible and we should fight it, but how does a man shitting his underpants sell beer? Who is buying this? Who are these people?
posted by The Bellman at 9:43 AM on April 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
I was like, "no, it can't be like that" and I clicked the link and it is. In fact it's worse. I . . . I just . . . I don't get it. How is that supposed to sell beer? I get that sexism and misogyny sell beer, and that's terrible and we should fight it, but how does a man shitting his underpants sell beer? Who is buying this? Who are these people?
posted by The Bellman at 9:43 AM on April 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Wonder if this will impact Sweet Water Motor Boat...
God, I hate Sweetwater. I hate hate hate effing hate Sweetwater. And I live in Atlanta and they are gorram ubiquitous around here. Luckily in the last several years a new crop of craft breweries have emerged, all of whom have displayed way better taste.
posted by Maaik at 9:45 AM on April 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
God, I hate Sweetwater. I hate hate hate effing hate Sweetwater. And I live in Atlanta and they are gorram ubiquitous around here. Luckily in the last several years a new crop of craft breweries have emerged, all of whom have displayed way better taste.
posted by Maaik at 9:45 AM on April 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
The average beer drinking adult individual might potentially think the opposite.
Thinking that sexism and alcohol as date rape jokes aren't vulgar is part of the problem, not a sign of triumph over some caricature of humorless feminists. That the labels, and by extension the breweries, are making the problem worse isn't something to be encouraged.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:46 AM on April 18, 2017 [27 favorites]
Thinking that sexism and alcohol as date rape jokes aren't vulgar is part of the problem, not a sign of triumph over some caricature of humorless feminists. That the labels, and by extension the breweries, are making the problem worse isn't something to be encouraged.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:46 AM on April 18, 2017 [27 favorites]
how does a man shitting his underpants sell beer? Who is buying this? Who are these people?
I don't know, if I had to choose between a beer advertised as facilitating the rape of women and a beer advertised as facilitating the shitting of men's pants, I think I'd pick the latter.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:47 AM on April 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
I don't know, if I had to choose between a beer advertised as facilitating the rape of women and a beer advertised as facilitating the shitting of men's pants, I think I'd pick the latter.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:47 AM on April 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
mikoroshi: "And you have every right not to buy said sexboob beer. But telling someone else they can't make the joke if they want is wrong.
Let's say I, as a gay brewer, want to put cheeky man-butt on my label, maybe even call my ale Cheeky Man-Butt. Am I now disqualified, or is it only hetero sex jokes that are prurient?
It's an adult beverage, for Christ sake, be an adult about it."
you didn't read the article
not even sure you read all of this post
posted by boo_radley at 9:48 AM on April 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
Let's say I, as a gay brewer, want to put cheeky man-butt on my label, maybe even call my ale Cheeky Man-Butt. Am I now disqualified, or is it only hetero sex jokes that are prurient?
It's an adult beverage, for Christ sake, be an adult about it."
you didn't read the article
not even sure you read all of this post
posted by boo_radley at 9:48 AM on April 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
The average beer drinking adult individual might potentially think the opposite.
Wait, hang on. Are you saying (I am legitimately asking because I cannot parse this), that the "average beer drinking adult" is somehow fundamentally different from "average adult individual"?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:49 AM on April 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Wait, hang on. Are you saying (I am legitimately asking because I cannot parse this), that the "average beer drinking adult" is somehow fundamentally different from "average adult individual"?
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:49 AM on April 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
therubettes,
It's not really necessary to discuss this action in terms of the general social acceptance of vulgarity or what "an adult" would do. This is a private organization setting rules for its private contest, plain and simple. If you want to frame this in terms of freedom, this private organization is free to set any internal rules it wants for its members or events.
Part of being an adult is understanding that when you want to participate in something, you very often have to agree to follow their rules. If you don't like those rules, don't participate. No one is being forced to do anything here, just as no one has an inherent right to participate in the BA or its festivals.
posted by Sangermaine at 9:51 AM on April 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
It's not really necessary to discuss this action in terms of the general social acceptance of vulgarity or what "an adult" would do. This is a private organization setting rules for its private contest, plain and simple. If you want to frame this in terms of freedom, this private organization is free to set any internal rules it wants for its members or events.
Part of being an adult is understanding that when you want to participate in something, you very often have to agree to follow their rules. If you don't like those rules, don't participate. No one is being forced to do anything here, just as no one has an inherent right to participate in the BA or its festivals.
posted by Sangermaine at 9:51 AM on April 18, 2017 [9 favorites]
the political-correctness fault line
I can remember the first time I heard the phrase "politically correct", way back in the mid eighties. I thought it useful for all of about 15 seconds, and then stopped thinking about it. And literally every use of the phrase that I've encountered since that first one has been either (a) as a marketing term for people wanting to get by with racist, misogynist, homophobic, able-ist jokes and rhetoric, and furthermore hoping to make themselves seem edgy for doing it, or (b) the people who are hurt by that humor attempting to work around the reflexive rhetorical obstacles to communication created by (a).
It's a stupid fucking phrase that attempts to disguise the distinction between hateful language and non-hateful language as some other distinction, usually "timid comformists vs. inconoclast free thinkers" or some such self-flattering bullshit. I'd be happy to never read it again; it never signals a worthwhile thought.
In regards to misogynist beer labeling and naming, I'll put a good word in for my hometown's Infusion Brewing, which doesn't pull that nonsense, and which has a really nice taproom right in my neighborhood as well.
posted by Ipsifendus at 9:51 AM on April 18, 2017 [47 favorites]
I can remember the first time I heard the phrase "politically correct", way back in the mid eighties. I thought it useful for all of about 15 seconds, and then stopped thinking about it. And literally every use of the phrase that I've encountered since that first one has been either (a) as a marketing term for people wanting to get by with racist, misogynist, homophobic, able-ist jokes and rhetoric, and furthermore hoping to make themselves seem edgy for doing it, or (b) the people who are hurt by that humor attempting to work around the reflexive rhetorical obstacles to communication created by (a).
It's a stupid fucking phrase that attempts to disguise the distinction between hateful language and non-hateful language as some other distinction, usually "timid comformists vs. inconoclast free thinkers" or some such self-flattering bullshit. I'd be happy to never read it again; it never signals a worthwhile thought.
In regards to misogynist beer labeling and naming, I'll put a good word in for my hometown's Infusion Brewing, which doesn't pull that nonsense, and which has a really nice taproom right in my neighborhood as well.
posted by Ipsifendus at 9:51 AM on April 18, 2017 [47 favorites]
I think you mean: when the product in question is for men.
- Really not what I mean.
Oh ffs, we've been over this. Ignoring vulgarity in this situation means that I would have to close my eyes and think happy thoughts every single time I drank a craft beer, because every. single. time. there is a whole slew of them on tap reminding me that everyone, everywhere, is making jokes about my anatomy.
- It is not possible that beers ads are making jokes about your anatomy.
The average beer drinking adult individual might potentially think the opposite.
Wait, hang on. Are you saying (I am legitimately asking because I cannot parse this), that the "average beer drinking adult" is somehow fundamentally different from "average adult individual"?
Fair point, you can take 'beer drinking' out of the sentence, but the point still stands.
It's not really necessary to discuss this action in terms of the general social acceptance of vulgarity or what "an adult" would do. This is a private organization setting rules for its private contest, plain and simple. If you want to frame this in terms of freedom, this private organization is free to set any internal rules it wants for its members or events.
The reason I made the point is based on a direct quote from the organisation, stating that the decision was made by "a panel represents a decent cross-section of what the average adult individual might potentially think".
posted by therubettes at 10:01 AM on April 18, 2017
- Really not what I mean.
Oh ffs, we've been over this. Ignoring vulgarity in this situation means that I would have to close my eyes and think happy thoughts every single time I drank a craft beer, because every. single. time. there is a whole slew of them on tap reminding me that everyone, everywhere, is making jokes about my anatomy.
- It is not possible that beers ads are making jokes about your anatomy.
The average beer drinking adult individual might potentially think the opposite.
Wait, hang on. Are you saying (I am legitimately asking because I cannot parse this), that the "average beer drinking adult" is somehow fundamentally different from "average adult individual"?
Fair point, you can take 'beer drinking' out of the sentence, but the point still stands.
It's not really necessary to discuss this action in terms of the general social acceptance of vulgarity or what "an adult" would do. This is a private organization setting rules for its private contest, plain and simple. If you want to frame this in terms of freedom, this private organization is free to set any internal rules it wants for its members or events.
The reason I made the point is based on a direct quote from the organisation, stating that the decision was made by "a panel represents a decent cross-section of what the average adult individual might potentially think".
posted by therubettes at 10:01 AM on April 18, 2017
Another possible signifier of adulthood is the ability to understand whether the BA is allowed to decide how its trademarks are used.
posted by beerperson at 10:05 AM on April 18, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by beerperson at 10:05 AM on April 18, 2017 [30 favorites]
Back in my day, we didn't call it "being politically correct." We called it "being polite."
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:07 AM on April 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:07 AM on April 18, 2017 [17 favorites]
Really not what I mean.
Yes, it is. You, a male beer drinker, are telling me, a female beer drinker, to "lighten up, it's just a joke, it's just a bit of silly harmless fun" in regards to these labels and names existing. Yes, it is exactly what you mean.
I'm ignoring you from here on out because anything you say is not in good faith. Please enjoy your Panty Peelers.
posted by Kitteh at 10:08 AM on April 18, 2017 [46 favorites]
Yes, it is. You, a male beer drinker, are telling me, a female beer drinker, to "lighten up, it's just a joke, it's just a bit of silly harmless fun" in regards to these labels and names existing. Yes, it is exactly what you mean.
I'm ignoring you from here on out because anything you say is not in good faith. Please enjoy your Panty Peelers.
posted by Kitteh at 10:08 AM on April 18, 2017 [46 favorites]
according to my username i am more of an authority on this matter, what i say goes
posted by beerperson at 10:10 AM on April 18, 2017 [22 favorites]
posted by beerperson at 10:10 AM on April 18, 2017 [22 favorites]
I applaud this decision.
Although I would assert that the really proper naming convention for beer should be Locational Modifier + Name of Town/Brewmaster + (optional) possessive + style of beer.
As in "Aecht Schlenkerla Rauchbier Marzen"
posted by aspersioncast at 10:10 AM on April 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Although I would assert that the really proper naming convention for beer should be Locational Modifier + Name of Town/Brewmaster + (optional) possessive + style of beer.
As in "Aecht Schlenkerla Rauchbier Marzen"
posted by aspersioncast at 10:10 AM on April 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
It is not possible that beers ads are making jokes about your anatomy
Huh?
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:10 AM on April 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
Huh?
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:10 AM on April 18, 2017 [19 favorites]
Kudos to the brewery owner for booting that particular boor, but would the former customer still be there if he were "only" leering? Maybe he should also screen the dishwashing station to the extent possible because not everyone holds up their hand and tells you they're a jerk.
posted by mattamatic at 10:13 AM on April 18, 2017
posted by mattamatic at 10:13 AM on April 18, 2017
> It is not possible that beers ads are making jokes about your anatomy.
I don't even know what the point of this comment is, but whatever. How about instead of "joke" we say "reference, represent, wink-wink-nudge-nudge and on and endlessly on COME ON LADIES LIGHTEN UP GEEZ."
It's stupid and boring and not in the least cutting-edge. It's juvenile. If you can make beer good enough to win awards, you can make labels good enough to not have people telling you how stupid and juvenile your labels are.
posted by rtha at 10:14 AM on April 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
I don't even know what the point of this comment is, but whatever. How about instead of "joke" we say "reference, represent, wink-wink-nudge-nudge and on and endlessly on COME ON LADIES LIGHTEN UP GEEZ."
It's stupid and boring and not in the least cutting-edge. It's juvenile. If you can make beer good enough to win awards, you can make labels good enough to not have people telling you how stupid and juvenile your labels are.
posted by rtha at 10:14 AM on April 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
...would the former customer still be there if he were "only" leering?
If he's leering in a way that doesn't make the staff uncomfortable, he's welcome to do so. If he's winking and sniggering and licking his lips, and the women work to keep a table between themselves and him, then no, "just leering" is not okay. But if he keeps his face still and just smiles in a way that says he's happy - not, "he's imagining how much better this would be if she weren't wearing clothes" - then there's no problem.
There is no problem with "guys look at pretty women." Not even, "old, unattractive guys look at pretty women." The problem is, "guys look at women - pretty or not - in ways that make it very clear to the women that he'd be doing a lot more than looking if he were not constrained by laws."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:18 AM on April 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
If he's leering in a way that doesn't make the staff uncomfortable, he's welcome to do so. If he's winking and sniggering and licking his lips, and the women work to keep a table between themselves and him, then no, "just leering" is not okay. But if he keeps his face still and just smiles in a way that says he's happy - not, "he's imagining how much better this would be if she weren't wearing clothes" - then there's no problem.
There is no problem with "guys look at pretty women." Not even, "old, unattractive guys look at pretty women." The problem is, "guys look at women - pretty or not - in ways that make it very clear to the women that he'd be doing a lot more than looking if he were not constrained by laws."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:18 AM on April 18, 2017 [13 favorites]
DUMB BREWERIES: lol tits are funny, date rape lol
LOTS OF WOMEN: i don't like that at all
BREWERS ASSOCIATION: guys i'm not even going to say stop doing the thing, just that don't put our name on the thing anymore, maybe
DUDE ON METAFILTER: oh christ, fascisms
posted by beerperson at 10:21 AM on April 18, 2017 [121 favorites]
LOTS OF WOMEN: i don't like that at all
BREWERS ASSOCIATION: guys i'm not even going to say stop doing the thing, just that don't put our name on the thing anymore, maybe
DUDE ON METAFILTER: oh christ, fascisms
posted by beerperson at 10:21 AM on April 18, 2017 [121 favorites]
Mod note: therubettes, you're digging in kinda hard here in a not particularly good way when you've already made your opinion and position pretty clear. Let it be and give the thread a pass at this point.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:22 AM on April 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:22 AM on April 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
As in "Aecht Schlenkerla Rauchbier Marzen"
That's actually a really delicious beer, even if I can barely pronounce it.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:36 AM on April 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
That's actually a really delicious beer, even if I can barely pronounce it.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:36 AM on April 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've been wandering through the Beer and Sexism blog and holy cow who thinks this is a good idea to joke about domestic violence in a business facebook post?
posted by Karmakaze at 10:39 AM on April 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Karmakaze at 10:39 AM on April 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Karmakaze, I saw that and my jaw dropped. The mind, it boggles.
posted by Kitteh at 10:40 AM on April 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Kitteh at 10:40 AM on April 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
What's really stupid is, how bad of a businessman does one have to be, to make a label that turns off half their potential market? Do people think women don't drink beer?
If it's so freakin' important that you get to name your beer Roofie McBoobface IPA, maybe you should check your priorities in life, rather than tell everyone else they're too sensitive and should just ignore you, your immaturity, and your desire to name a product after sexual imagery and/or violence. Maybe you should think about why you want to associate yourself with that, instead of complaining about how other people don't.
posted by Autumnheart at 10:46 AM on April 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
If it's so freakin' important that you get to name your beer Roofie McBoobface IPA, maybe you should check your priorities in life, rather than tell everyone else they're too sensitive and should just ignore you, your immaturity, and your desire to name a product after sexual imagery and/or violence. Maybe you should think about why you want to associate yourself with that, instead of complaining about how other people don't.
posted by Autumnheart at 10:46 AM on April 18, 2017 [10 favorites]
> Do people think women don't drink beer?
Yes, they do. They are the same people (men, mostly) who think women don't read comics, don't play video games, don't like sports, don't drink whisk(e)y etc. They want to keep girls out of their clubhouse, only they forgot to notice that we're already in it.
posted by rtha at 11:00 AM on April 18, 2017 [58 favorites]
Yes, they do. They are the same people (men, mostly) who think women don't read comics, don't play video games, don't like sports, don't drink whisk(e)y etc. They want to keep girls out of their clubhouse, only they forgot to notice that we're already in it.
posted by rtha at 11:00 AM on April 18, 2017 [58 favorites]
They are the same people (men, mostly) who think women don't read comics, don't play video games, don't like sports, don't drink whisk(e)y etc
Or, if women do do those things, that they do them "wrong" (cf. "fake gamer girl").
posted by uncleozzy at 11:09 AM on April 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
Or, if women do do those things, that they do them "wrong" (cf. "fake gamer girl").
posted by uncleozzy at 11:09 AM on April 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yup. Except for the "cool girls" who laugh at their date rape jokes, of course.
posted by rtha at 11:11 AM on April 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by rtha at 11:11 AM on April 18, 2017 [6 favorites]
Which is a mark of maturity, to be able to laugh at such things, or brush them off. /s
posted by Autumnheart at 11:12 AM on April 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 11:12 AM on April 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Or, if women do do those things, that they do them "wrong" (cf. "fake gamer girl").
Or they're the "cool" girls who don't "get their panties in a twist" over a "joke."
posted by BrashTech at 11:13 AM on April 18, 2017
Or they're the "cool" girls who don't "get their panties in a twist" over a "joke."
posted by BrashTech at 11:13 AM on April 18, 2017
starting to suspect you guys are using sarcasms
posted by beerperson at 11:14 AM on April 18, 2017 [28 favorites]
posted by beerperson at 11:14 AM on April 18, 2017 [28 favorites]
too drunk for sarcasms
posted by rtha at 11:15 AM on April 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by rtha at 11:15 AM on April 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
My first article as the beer columnist for a local website dropped today and I await the inevitable slew of comments about how I, a woman, could not possibly know a thing about beer. It's too early to do it yet but I'd love to do a column asking local breweries their reactions and feels towards the BA rules and the push to do the same here in Canada. Fuck it, maybe I'll pitch it to my editor anyway.
posted by Kitteh at 11:23 AM on April 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 11:23 AM on April 18, 2017 [20 favorites]
I don't find the names personally offensive (though obviously tasteless) but I'm really just glad that being a hackneyed chode will be slightly discouraged in my hobby of drinking heavily. There are a million clever things you could name your beer-- the real offense to me here is the idea that making a Budweiser-level cheerleader pun is all that separates us from babies and animals.
posted by stoneandstar at 1:24 PM on April 18, 2017
posted by stoneandstar at 1:24 PM on April 18, 2017
Like good lord, I know you have a Constitutionally protected right to be a idiotic bore but maybe have a healthy dose of shame about it.
posted by stoneandstar at 1:26 PM on April 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by stoneandstar at 1:26 PM on April 18, 2017 [14 favorites]
The "blond(e) ale" thing is super weird and seems like a specifically USian bit of gratuitous sexism anyway? Since "blond" is French for "golden" and the name comes from Belgian beer (where it almost invariably takes the masculine "blond" form)
Hum not in my experience, since beer is a feminine word in French, its blonde all the way (maybe in Dutch/German regions??)
posted by coust at 1:33 PM on April 18, 2017
Hum not in my experience, since beer is a feminine word in French, its blonde all the way (maybe in Dutch/German regions??)
posted by coust at 1:33 PM on April 18, 2017
Metafilter: maybe have a healthy dose of shame about it.
posted by XtinaS at 3:10 PM on April 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by XtinaS at 3:10 PM on April 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sexist and misogynistic labeling is demeaning to a group that are seen (wrongly) to be other and outside the in group and I think on this basis alone should be condemned. Disgusting labeling is disgusting, but it's not saying anything about any particular people at all. I wouldn't buy a beer with a picture of a man shitting himself on it but I do find it hard to get beyond saying meh.
I don't know that it helps to conflate the two categories.
posted by deadwax at 3:21 PM on April 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't know that it helps to conflate the two categories.
posted by deadwax at 3:21 PM on April 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't know that it helps to conflate the two categories.
It can, in the sense that the awards group can say, "we don't want our name on a label with DISGUSTING THINGS on it. Which, by the way, includes labels that imply 'use this booze for all your fun rapey parties.'"
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:55 PM on April 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
It can, in the sense that the awards group can say, "we don't want our name on a label with DISGUSTING THINGS on it. Which, by the way, includes labels that imply 'use this booze for all your fun rapey parties.'"
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:55 PM on April 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'm not surprised the BA is making this move. We've been making similar noise in the child org, the AHA.
What I am surprised at is the amount of vitrol/grumbling from folks I'd expect to know better about what seems to be a rather soft move on the part of the org.
Part of this is motivated by the marketing concerns, part by the fact that the BA staff is heavily female and they've been able to make their voices heard. (and of the ones I've met, there isn't a single one I'd want to tangle with - they're awesome).
And then the other kicker - the primary purpose of the BA, outside of marketing/promoting craft beer - is lobbying at the Federal and State level on behalf of the industry - helping with laws and tax rates. Hell of a lot easier to do if you don't have to defend eye roll inducing crap like this.
posted by drewbage1847 at 4:39 PM on April 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
What I am surprised at is the amount of vitrol/grumbling from folks I'd expect to know better about what seems to be a rather soft move on the part of the org.
Part of this is motivated by the marketing concerns, part by the fact that the BA staff is heavily female and they've been able to make their voices heard. (and of the ones I've met, there isn't a single one I'd want to tangle with - they're awesome).
And then the other kicker - the primary purpose of the BA, outside of marketing/promoting craft beer - is lobbying at the Federal and State level on behalf of the industry - helping with laws and tax rates. Hell of a lot easier to do if you don't have to defend eye roll inducing crap like this.
posted by drewbage1847 at 4:39 PM on April 18, 2017 [16 favorites]
Personally, I'd rather they were explicitly saying that leering sexism and rape apologia aren't merely gross or disgusting things, they're worse.
That "brown note" label is gross but wouldn't give me the same gut-punch message that people with bodies like mine aren't thought of as brewers or drinkers, we're thought of as eye candy and physical gratification.
posted by Lexica at 4:40 PM on April 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
That "brown note" label is gross but wouldn't give me the same gut-punch message that people with bodies like mine aren't thought of as brewers or drinkers, we're thought of as eye candy and physical gratification.
posted by Lexica at 4:40 PM on April 18, 2017 [7 favorites]
another middle class colonisation of a working class space
Yes, hipster microbrews are a working class space, into which feminism, an exclusively middle class issue, has intruded
posted by milk white peacock at 8:33 PM on April 18, 2017 [29 favorites]
Yes, hipster microbrews are a working class space, into which feminism, an exclusively middle class issue, has intruded
posted by milk white peacock at 8:33 PM on April 18, 2017 [29 favorites]
What's really stupid is, how bad of a businessman does one have to be, to make a label that turns off half their potential market? Do people think women don't drink beer?
Perhaps you underestimate the volume of additional beer you sell to the coal rollin', open carryin', trump votin', gamer-gatin', MRA-in' types who will do pretty much anything if they think it will irritate someone else.
posted by ctmf at 9:26 PM on April 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Perhaps you underestimate the volume of additional beer you sell to the coal rollin', open carryin', trump votin', gamer-gatin', MRA-in' types who will do pretty much anything if they think it will irritate someone else.
posted by ctmf at 9:26 PM on April 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm not surprised the BA is making this move. We've been making similar noise in the child org, the AHA.
I'm glad you guys are on the right side of this issue but I really don't think children should be drinking beer.
posted by No-sword at 3:13 AM on April 19, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'm glad you guys are on the right side of this issue but I really don't think children should be drinking beer.
posted by No-sword at 3:13 AM on April 19, 2017 [13 favorites]
AHAHAHAHA. GET FUCKED, BREWBROS.
posted by tobascodagama at 6:05 AM on April 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 6:05 AM on April 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
Men: If you are out with buddies and one of your buddies orders this beer, and you don't bring it up with him, you are part of the problem. Yes, you specifically, and yes I'm judging you for it.
posted by FirstMateKate at 7:40 AM on April 19, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by FirstMateKate at 7:40 AM on April 19, 2017 [14 favorites]
I think in an ideal world, the sexual names would just be a hoot and everybody could have a chuckle and nobody would have to be penalized, however slight. I drink the Panty Peeler, know the fine folks who make it, and love the taste. The name evokes a midnight skinny dip and the lady on the can seems to be having a fine time of her own choice.
The reality is the industry is heavily dominated by men, has a bit of a misogyny problem, and the vast majority of sexual innuendo in beer names is directed towards women in a demeaning way.
This is not a healthy thing in any business but craft beer is also a bit of a taste maker and an influence on popular culture. I think they have a responsibility to encourage an industry where people of any sex and persuasion can thrive. They also have a responsibility to set the tone at the party or at the bar where misogyny and alcohol can collide with terrible consequences.
posted by Foam Pants at 3:26 PM on April 19, 2017
The reality is the industry is heavily dominated by men, has a bit of a misogyny problem, and the vast majority of sexual innuendo in beer names is directed towards women in a demeaning way.
This is not a healthy thing in any business but craft beer is also a bit of a taste maker and an influence on popular culture. I think they have a responsibility to encourage an industry where people of any sex and persuasion can thrive. They also have a responsibility to set the tone at the party or at the bar where misogyny and alcohol can collide with terrible consequences.
posted by Foam Pants at 3:26 PM on April 19, 2017
Kinda surprised at the number of people here insisting that we all try their Freeze Peach Ice-Brewed Lambic
It's fucking lazy marketing to rely on outré EXTREME brahbrah sexism to sell your beer, and I say this as someone who likes getting buzzed, attractive women, good times (and great oldies) as much as the next guy. I like some of the Belching Beaver beers I've had, but I never want to buy any, let alone shit like Bitch Creek.
It might be different if there were a bunch of beers that were likely to be excluded that had sexy labels depicting ladies as subjects with agency, but I get the feeling that those (if they exist) wouldn't be at great risk.
posted by klangklangston at 3:45 PM on April 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's fucking lazy marketing to rely on outré EXTREME brahbrah sexism to sell your beer, and I say this as someone who likes getting buzzed, attractive women, good times (and great oldies) as much as the next guy. I like some of the Belching Beaver beers I've had, but I never want to buy any, let alone shit like Bitch Creek.
It might be different if there were a bunch of beers that were likely to be excluded that had sexy labels depicting ladies as subjects with agency, but I get the feeling that those (if they exist) wouldn't be at great risk.
posted by klangklangston at 3:45 PM on April 19, 2017 [3 favorites]
The name evokes a midnight skinny dip
It really doesn't.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 4:48 PM on April 19, 2017 [7 favorites]
It really doesn't.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 4:48 PM on April 19, 2017 [7 favorites]
Yes, hipster microbrews are a working class space,..,
Once upon a time, back when Falstaff was the St. Louis beer, Schlitz was the big dog with the good ideas and you had to pay an extra nickel if you wanted PBR. That far distant era when Coors' sales ended at Kansas' eastern border and hops were used in moderation, yeah, that beer space was poor and working class bars.
Then about '90 some people noticed the really cheapskates' home brews, were as good as the high dollar imports that had been infiltrating cocktail lounges for a decade and that could be monetized. So yippee, America got a new way to be pretentious and that couldn't be marketed under boring Teutonic surnames but beer named after tires and dogs blazed a trail for some truly disgusting labels.
...into which feminism, an exclusively middle class issue, has intruded
I wouldn't say feminism is exclusively middle class but that middle class feminism has it own priorities. Locally, the price of H, Fentanyl and tricks at the local casinos are all down. If you're going to stick your nose into that intersection of criminal and exploitation, I suggest getting a concealed weapon permit first and not trusting any corruptible cop to have your back. Or not, everyone has choices about where they want expend some of their spare time and cash to try to improve things.
posted by ridgerunner at 5:22 PM on April 19, 2017
Once upon a time, back when Falstaff was the St. Louis beer, Schlitz was the big dog with the good ideas and you had to pay an extra nickel if you wanted PBR. That far distant era when Coors' sales ended at Kansas' eastern border and hops were used in moderation, yeah, that beer space was poor and working class bars.
Then about '90 some people noticed the really cheapskates' home brews, were as good as the high dollar imports that had been infiltrating cocktail lounges for a decade and that could be monetized. So yippee, America got a new way to be pretentious and that couldn't be marketed under boring Teutonic surnames but beer named after tires and dogs blazed a trail for some truly disgusting labels.
...into which feminism, an exclusively middle class issue, has intruded
I wouldn't say feminism is exclusively middle class but that middle class feminism has it own priorities. Locally, the price of H, Fentanyl and tricks at the local casinos are all down. If you're going to stick your nose into that intersection of criminal and exploitation, I suggest getting a concealed weapon permit first and not trusting any corruptible cop to have your back. Or not, everyone has choices about where they want expend some of their spare time and cash to try to improve things.
posted by ridgerunner at 5:22 PM on April 19, 2017
If you're trying to say that working class women are all selling opioids and sex at casinos and therefore don't find rape humor threatening, well, you're wrong and possibly a little stupid. It's hard to tell through the unintelligibly shitty cool guy impression.
Working class women are raped more often than middle class women, and in my experience they don't relish smug idiots joking about it.
posted by stoneandstar at 11:35 PM on April 19, 2017 [10 favorites]
Working class women are raped more often than middle class women, and in my experience they don't relish smug idiots joking about it.
posted by stoneandstar at 11:35 PM on April 19, 2017 [10 favorites]
Jon Mitchell: "Look, brewers, if freedom of speech is that important to you then just make a beer called "thirst amendment", problem solved."
I *cannot* believe there isn't a beer called this. There *must* be!
posted by Chrysostom at 12:05 AM on April 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
I *cannot* believe there isn't a beer called this. There *must* be!
posted by Chrysostom at 12:05 AM on April 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
If you're trying to say that working class women are all selling opioids and sex at casinos and therefore don't find rape humor threatening, well, you're wrong...
No. I meant drugs are so cheap, vicious white supremacist punks are able to use them to hook cute young women then blackmale and extort them into turning tricks at casinos around here. The decreasing price for sex indicates there are way too many women caught up in this shit.
Sorry my writing style's not up to your standards.
posted by ridgerunner at 2:00 AM on April 20, 2017
No. I meant drugs are so cheap, vicious white supremacist punks are able to use them to hook cute young women then blackmale and extort them into turning tricks at casinos around here. The decreasing price for sex indicates there are way too many women caught up in this shit.
Sorry my writing style's not up to your standards.
posted by ridgerunner at 2:00 AM on April 20, 2017
An Anti Defamation League link to the above criminals. Honkeys specifically.
posted by ridgerunner at 2:30 AM on April 20, 2017
posted by ridgerunner at 2:30 AM on April 20, 2017
How is anything you are saying at all relevant?
posted by FirstMateKate at 5:43 AM on April 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by FirstMateKate at 5:43 AM on April 20, 2017 [10 favorites]
Even granting ridgerunner's premise that microbrews and craft beers are the true home of honest working class salt-of-the-earth types who don't need nosy feminism telling them what to do, so the fuck what? What does that have to do with a group no one is required to join saying who can and cannot use their trademarked award logo?
posted by rtha at 5:50 AM on April 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by rtha at 5:50 AM on April 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Wow, I don't even think the beer lobby's propaganda is as vitriolic as this. I mean, sure, they'll claim that craft beer is expensive because it's made by ivory-tower left coasters who sneer at working-class Real Americans, rather than the fact that the major beer companies dominate every part of the process from the moment the product leaves the vat. And yeah, they'll also suggest that it's craft beer companies that are undermining that good old bootstrappy, can-do underdog spirit of great-grandpa Adolphus with breweries that their rich suburban mommies and daddies probably bought for them, despite the fact that the large brewers have some of the largest beverage lobbying groups in the world. And maybe they'll tut-tut about horrible beer labels while spending hundreds of millions of dollars on demeaning, bigoted, and occasionally even pro-assault advertising.
But as far as I know even they won't go so far as to claim that know-nothing feminists are meddling in the industry on the behalf of interests opposed to the working class who are also somehow tied to guns, police corruption, white supremacists, the drug trade, and sex trafficking. Nor do I think they'd try to make New Belgium, a brewery whose most salaciously-named beer is called "Skinny Dip" and features artwork depicting a towel and flip-flops on a dock with nary a person in sight, out to be a "trailblazer" for sexism in beer labeling and advertising.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:50 AM on April 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
But as far as I know even they won't go so far as to claim that know-nothing feminists are meddling in the industry on the behalf of interests opposed to the working class who are also somehow tied to guns, police corruption, white supremacists, the drug trade, and sex trafficking. Nor do I think they'd try to make New Belgium, a brewery whose most salaciously-named beer is called "Skinny Dip" and features artwork depicting a towel and flip-flops on a dock with nary a person in sight, out to be a "trailblazer" for sexism in beer labeling and advertising.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:50 AM on April 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Wow, when your concern trolling misses the mark this broadly, you might want to re-evaluate your premise.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:54 AM on April 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 5:54 AM on April 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah y'all are right, I shoulda never set foot in this thread.
I apologize for wasting anyone who reads this far's time.
I promise it ain't happening again.
posted by ridgerunner at 6:33 AM on April 20, 2017
I apologize for wasting anyone who reads this far's time.
I promise it ain't happening again.
posted by ridgerunner at 6:33 AM on April 20, 2017
In semi-related news, how cool is this event going to be? (I wish I could go!)
posted by Kitteh at 7:36 AM on April 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Kitteh at 7:36 AM on April 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Surprised Pink Boots isn't involved in that.
posted by beerperson at 8:13 AM on April 20, 2017
posted by beerperson at 8:13 AM on April 20, 2017
There might not be a local/regional chapter? But yes, that is odd.
posted by Kitteh at 8:29 AM on April 20, 2017
posted by Kitteh at 8:29 AM on April 20, 2017
In semi-related news, how cool is this event going to be? (I wish I could go!)
Probably the only time I've ever thought, even momentarily, about going back to South Florida.
posted by tobascodagama at 10:01 AM on April 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Probably the only time I've ever thought, even momentarily, about going back to South Florida.
posted by tobascodagama at 10:01 AM on April 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
"One of our local breweries (with an excellent Citra IPA and a very nice weekly trivia night) has a brown ale whose artwork prominently features a man defecating into his clothing"
everybody poops
"What's really stupid is, how bad of a businessman does one have to be, to make a label that turns off half their potential market? Do people think women don't drink beer?"
CRAFTBRO: no but see, craft brews are about being a REBEL and a REBEL breaks rules and lives EXTREME
EVERYONE ELSE: But hasn't that macho "rebellion" ossified into a defense of conformist sexism, conflating a hoary stereotype of women as guardians of gentility and the actual complaints of real-life women? And since there's a pretty undeniable legacy of discrimination, isn't that like, the rock 'n' roll equivalent of Stryper?
CRAFTBRO: but nobody notices if you're not sexist and we need people to notice us and it's just what our customers like
EVERYONE ELSE: Your customers like beer, and if you need 'it'll get you laid, dudes' as your label, how are you better than Bud Light?
posted by klangklangston at 12:17 PM on April 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
everybody poops
"What's really stupid is, how bad of a businessman does one have to be, to make a label that turns off half their potential market? Do people think women don't drink beer?"
CRAFTBRO: no but see, craft brews are about being a REBEL and a REBEL breaks rules and lives EXTREME
EVERYONE ELSE: But hasn't that macho "rebellion" ossified into a defense of conformist sexism, conflating a hoary stereotype of women as guardians of gentility and the actual complaints of real-life women? And since there's a pretty undeniable legacy of discrimination, isn't that like, the rock 'n' roll equivalent of Stryper?
CRAFTBRO: but nobody notices if you're not sexist and we need people to notice us and it's just what our customers like
EVERYONE ELSE: Your customers like beer, and if you need 'it'll get you laid, dudes' as your label, how are you better than Bud Light?
posted by klangklangston at 12:17 PM on April 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's also disappointing how fucking basic some of the labels being defended are. Like, on that Beer & Sexism blog calls out Old Leghumper, which is a pretty tasty beer with a shitty label. But it could have a pretty nice label without much thought, except that Thirsty Dog apparently prefers the Owner's Nephew school of graphic design.
posted by klangklangston at 12:21 PM on April 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by klangklangston at 12:21 PM on April 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
There are so many fun and interesting a quirky things you could call a beer. "Pipperpopple IPA". Like, whatever. I'm not saying it's good but it's a damn sight better than "Fuckblanket Lager". And even "Fuckblanket Lager" is better than any of the trash above. I would eat somebody else's fingenails to have a job naming beers. "Somebody Else's Fingernails" is a perfectly good name for a beer, incidentally. God almighty.
posted by turbid dahlia at 10:12 PM on April 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 10:12 PM on April 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
The argument that the casual marketing of rape and sexual violence against women may somehow, even in some small way, be linked to the ease with which women are enslaved and dehumanized in the sex trade and also within our relatively sheltered middle class lives, does not occur to the internet tough guy. The idea that consequences for normalizing crimes against a woman's person could possibly be a noble, albeit small thing for a woman to enforce in her own hobby or career... well, when would we get to show off the fact that we're a latter day Raymond Carver?
posted by stoneandstar at 12:30 PM on April 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by stoneandstar at 12:30 PM on April 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Then about '90 some people noticed the really cheapskates' home brews, were as good as the high dollar imports that had been infiltrating cocktail lounges for a decade and that could be monetized
I know ridgerunner's already bowed out but this frankly does not at all match how I remember this going down, or any historical evidence I have. Pretty curious about the narrative. Might be a big derail in this thread though.
posted by aspersioncast at 6:39 PM on April 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
I know ridgerunner's already bowed out but this frankly does not at all match how I remember this going down, or any historical evidence I have. Pretty curious about the narrative. Might be a big derail in this thread though.
posted by aspersioncast at 6:39 PM on April 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
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Let's say I, as a gay brewer, want to put cheeky man-butt on my label, maybe even call my ale Cheeky Man-Butt. Am I now disqualified, or is it only hetero sex jokes that are prurient?
It's an adult beverage, for Christ sake, be an adult about it.
posted by mikoroshi at 8:19 AM on April 18, 2017 [3 favorites]