“...like out there is the true world, and in here is the dream.”
April 22, 2017 11:57 AM Subscribe
The Next Four Avatar Movies Now Have Release Dates Again [io9] “Follow-ups to the highest-grossing movie of all time were originally slated to start coming out next year. But recent statements by director James Cameron disclosed that there’d be a delay for the coming wave of Avatar sequels. Now we know the exact dates that Cameron and his team are aiming for, starting with December 18, 2020.”
“Great to be working with the best team in the business! Avatar takes flight as we begin concurrent production on four sequels. The journey continues December 18, 2020, December 17, 2021, December 20, 2024 and December 19, 2025!” [via: Facebook]
It's entirely possible that with another creative control team, this could be, like Star Wars, rescued from its inherent staleness with fresh viewpoints, plots and actors, but I don't see where that is happening here. The visuals were amazing, but pretty quickly I got tired and headachy (either from the endless cliches or from the 3D, I can't tell which).
I remember reading that article about people who were so heartbroken that they couldn't live on Pandora that the sadness was absorbing their lives. As a fangirl for other things, I felt pretty terrible for them; I hope it cleared up. I don't see those folks forming the economic backbone for a franchise.
posted by Countess Elena at 12:04 PM on April 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
I remember reading that article about people who were so heartbroken that they couldn't live on Pandora that the sadness was absorbing their lives. As a fangirl for other things, I felt pretty terrible for them; I hope it cleared up. I don't see those folks forming the economic backbone for a franchise.
posted by Countess Elena at 12:04 PM on April 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
I was just casually making Avatar quotes yesterday while talking about how many hits my Avatar tumblr has recently received, you know, the way all the cool kids do because this has made such an impact on popular culture what with all the books, television, toys, commercials, etc.
posted by Fizz at 12:07 PM on April 22, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 12:07 PM on April 22, 2017 [23 favorites]
Avatar was the finest animated black-light poster ever made. It'd make a lovely basis for an amusement park. I can't see the point of one sequel, let alone several; that would imply there was a story or characters that someone might care about.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:08 PM on April 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:08 PM on April 22, 2017 [13 favorites]
He's literally been working on these sequels since 2009 and he keeps pushing back the release date and adding more movies to the batch. I'm not expecting them to ever happen at this point. Probably just as well.
posted by hippybear at 12:17 PM on April 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 12:17 PM on April 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, this is just baffling -- as baffling as Disney still going ahead with their Avatar expansion to Animal Kingdom (because obviously this is the movie tie-in theme park everyone's been waiting for, not that stupid Star Wars thing over at Hollywood Studios!).
I think there was about a 18 month period where maybe they had a chance to make Avatar a thing, but now here we are 8 years later and they're only now even barely putting the real work into making it a thing.
Stop trying to make Avatar a thing, James.
posted by tocts at 12:19 PM on April 22, 2017 [29 favorites]
I think there was about a 18 month period where maybe they had a chance to make Avatar a thing, but now here we are 8 years later and they're only now even barely putting the real work into making it a thing.
Stop trying to make Avatar a thing, James.
posted by tocts at 12:19 PM on April 22, 2017 [29 favorites]
Imagine if he could have been persuaded to put all this effort into following up Prometheus.
With the amount of money he's spending he probably could have cloned Vasquez.
posted by biffa at 12:22 PM on April 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
With the amount of money he's spending he probably could have cloned Vasquez.
posted by biffa at 12:22 PM on April 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Once Disney made the commitment for the theme park, they couldn't not go through with (at least two of) the sequels. That was a major chunk of real estate and infrastructure, and they couldn't devote it to a one shot movie that a new generation of kids wouldn't have an emotional commitment to.
It's still a pretty big risk, as far as I can see. Critical opinion is divided, but there are those who believe that the first movie's success was mostly due to cracking the code on the modern 3D process. It will be up to the sequels to see if the franchise has more to offer than that.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:23 PM on April 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's still a pretty big risk, as far as I can see. Critical opinion is divided, but there are those who believe that the first movie's success was mostly due to cracking the code on the modern 3D process. It will be up to the sequels to see if the franchise has more to offer than that.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:23 PM on April 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Zzzzz....
posted by GallonOfAlan at 12:24 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by GallonOfAlan at 12:24 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wait, just wait, Disney does crossovers, no?
Herbie drives to Pandora.
posted by sammyo at 12:28 PM on April 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Herbie drives to Pandora.
posted by sammyo at 12:28 PM on April 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
No one asked for this. It's the movie that'll come out in the summer and then bored, heat-exhausted people will sigh and say, Enh, let's see Avatar.
posted by mochapickle at 12:29 PM on April 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by mochapickle at 12:29 PM on April 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Ugh, but why? Does James Cameron need the money so he can, I dunno, go to space or something?
Avatar was the finest animated black-light poster ever made. It'd make a lovely basis for an amusement park. I can't see the point of one sequel, let alone several; that would imply there was a story or characters that someone might care about.
Cameron's career has showed me that he is one of the most outward-facing directors of his generation, without belittling his inner muses. By this I simply mean that he is capable of a primary focus on his audience first, while still regarding the ego and personal fantasy fulfillment, but not letting that overwhelm story craft and solid production values.
I believe, now, at his age, he would like to entertain some earlier fantasies that he entertained in his teens and twenties. At this point he is able to utilize the highest caliber of talent that the film industry has to offer (or, hell, any industry: Who wouldn't want to collaborate on a Cameron flick?)
It is a certain indulgence but I feel that he has earned it. I'm not sure if he cares weather or not people show up; he's just having fun.
posted by coolxcool=rad at 12:30 PM on April 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
Avatar was the finest animated black-light poster ever made. It'd make a lovely basis for an amusement park. I can't see the point of one sequel, let alone several; that would imply there was a story or characters that someone might care about.
Cameron's career has showed me that he is one of the most outward-facing directors of his generation, without belittling his inner muses. By this I simply mean that he is capable of a primary focus on his audience first, while still regarding the ego and personal fantasy fulfillment, but not letting that overwhelm story craft and solid production values.
I believe, now, at his age, he would like to entertain some earlier fantasies that he entertained in his teens and twenties. At this point he is able to utilize the highest caliber of talent that the film industry has to offer (or, hell, any industry: Who wouldn't want to collaborate on a Cameron flick?)
It is a certain indulgence but I feel that he has earned it. I'm not sure if he cares weather or not people show up; he's just having fun.
posted by coolxcool=rad at 12:30 PM on April 22, 2017 [7 favorites]
I hope these fall through. It was annoying to listen to the anglicized pronunciation of Avatar.
Although it is apt for a movie called Avatar to have multiple versions...
posted by Gyan at 12:31 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Although it is apt for a movie called Avatar to have multiple versions...
posted by Gyan at 12:31 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
the first slenderman smurf movie was hot garbage but it had the positive effect of further cementing cameron as a hack director
also
stupid m night shyamalan for ruining the other avatar franchise that could have actually been great
posted by Foci for Analysis at 12:33 PM on April 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
also
stupid m night shyamalan for ruining the other avatar franchise that could have actually been great
posted by Foci for Analysis at 12:33 PM on April 22, 2017 [8 favorites]
Cameron's version of having fun is all his work with oceanic study and underwater documentary stuff. Ghosts Of The Abyss, Volcanos Of The Deep Sea, Aliens Of The Deep, Deepsea Challenge... That's what he does when he wants to have fun.
I suspect that the reason this keeps getting pushed out further and further (I think the first sequel was first supposed to be released in 2013?) is because this feels like real work.
I just noticed the 3 year gap between movie 3 and movie 4, too. For why? You're doing concurrent production on all the movies?
posted by hippybear at 12:35 PM on April 22, 2017
I suspect that the reason this keeps getting pushed out further and further (I think the first sequel was first supposed to be released in 2013?) is because this feels like real work.
I just noticed the 3 year gap between movie 3 and movie 4, too. For why? You're doing concurrent production on all the movies?
posted by hippybear at 12:35 PM on April 22, 2017
So there was a tweet a few years ago that I am too lazy to Google. Someone noted that it was the highest grossing movie of all time (not adjusting for inflation) and challenged the reader to name two characters from memory. The point of course being that nearly nobody can.
Cameron saw the tweet (everyone did) and got his team together to discuss it and possible solutions. What they came up with was not "we should make better movies that are more than massively-hyped effects showcases" but instead "let's saturate the culture with four more of these fuckers, surely by then a lot of people will have their names memorized."
In medical terms, one might term this a failure of both diagnosis and prescription.
posted by middleclasstool at 12:38 PM on April 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Cameron saw the tweet (everyone did) and got his team together to discuss it and possible solutions. What they came up with was not "we should make better movies that are more than massively-hyped effects showcases" but instead "let's saturate the culture with four more of these fuckers, surely by then a lot of people will have their names memorized."
In medical terms, one might term this a failure of both diagnosis and prescription.
posted by middleclasstool at 12:38 PM on April 22, 2017 [12 favorites]
Cameron's version of having fun is all his work with oceanic study and underwater documentary stuff. Ghosts Of The Abyss, Volcanos Of The Deep Sea, Aliens Of The Deep, Deepsea Challenge... That's what he does when he wants to have fun.
And I've loved all of these films. I'd gladly take more ocean documentaries.
posted by Fizz at 12:38 PM on April 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
And I've loved all of these films. I'd gladly take more ocean documentaries.
posted by Fizz at 12:38 PM on April 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
Alright, maybe "fun" wasn't the best descriptor. Maybe something more like experimentally-self-indulgent-becauase-you-can-be.
There's probably a German word for that.
posted by coolxcool=rad at 12:40 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
There's probably a German word for that.
posted by coolxcool=rad at 12:40 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yes, his underwater stuff is quite remarkable and wonderful. And also involves him spending money to push the technology of undersea exploration forward. He could just do that, I think. We know basically nothing about 70% of our planet. Yay scientists who explore under the oceans and those who document those explorations! #marchforscience
posted by hippybear at 12:42 PM on April 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 12:42 PM on April 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Cameron saw the tweet (everyone did) and got his team together to discuss it and possible solutions...
I would love to read about this confab (if there is an article that you remember).
Titanic was as dumb as a box of rocks, but you know what, I cried. I cried like it was being punched out of me. It was so anachronistic, it ignored real and heartrending stories, and I was exhausted, up until the spectacle that Cameron knew exactly how to pull off. The man is good at what he does, but whether what he does is "good" is a question best privately answered. Certainly people are entertained, animators employed, checks cleared ...
posted by Countess Elena at 12:44 PM on April 22, 2017
I would love to read about this confab (if there is an article that you remember).
Titanic was as dumb as a box of rocks, but you know what, I cried. I cried like it was being punched out of me. It was so anachronistic, it ignored real and heartrending stories, and I was exhausted, up until the spectacle that Cameron knew exactly how to pull off. The man is good at what he does, but whether what he does is "good" is a question best privately answered. Certainly people are entertained, animators employed, checks cleared ...
posted by Countess Elena at 12:44 PM on April 22, 2017
That was a major chunk of real estate and infrastructure, and they couldn't devote it to a one shot movie that a new generation of kids wouldn't have an emotional commitment to.
Because Disney's never had a successful section of the park that wasn't based on a pre-existing movie, right?
I mean, I know the new trend is "find popular movie; make amusement-park ride(s)." But Space Mountain and Pirates of the Caribbean and Haunted Mansion were major draws for years without cinematic support. "Na'vi-land or whatever they want to call it, could work just fine with a note of "inspired by the epic film" instead of "here's the stuff you remember from the movie" (which nobody does, and nobody would have even if it opened six months after the movie was released).
Avatar was gorgeous; had amazing plants and animals; allows for jungle, sky, and outer-space sections. It had huge alien predators and bizarre (and pretty) plantlife and dragons. And floating rocks. And bad-guy space marines. There is no need whatsoever to look for more movie content to inspire a theme park ride, or even a whole section of theme park.
... I do understand the idea of "Cameron's rich beyond the dreams of avarice, and he wants his pet project, and he's skilled enough to make sure it's not a horrific flop." Just don't see why Disney should wait for him.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:46 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Because Disney's never had a successful section of the park that wasn't based on a pre-existing movie, right?
I mean, I know the new trend is "find popular movie; make amusement-park ride(s)." But Space Mountain and Pirates of the Caribbean and Haunted Mansion were major draws for years without cinematic support. "Na'vi-land or whatever they want to call it, could work just fine with a note of "inspired by the epic film" instead of "here's the stuff you remember from the movie" (which nobody does, and nobody would have even if it opened six months after the movie was released).
Avatar was gorgeous; had amazing plants and animals; allows for jungle, sky, and outer-space sections. It had huge alien predators and bizarre (and pretty) plantlife and dragons. And floating rocks. And bad-guy space marines. There is no need whatsoever to look for more movie content to inspire a theme park ride, or even a whole section of theme park.
... I do understand the idea of "Cameron's rich beyond the dreams of avarice, and he wants his pet project, and he's skilled enough to make sure it's not a horrific flop." Just don't see why Disney should wait for him.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:46 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Let the snarkfilter commence! I found Avatar to be an amazing 3D experience in the theater, though that diminished somewhat in 2D at home. I have never found any other 3D film, ever, to deliver that kind of immersion.
Of course, the script was ten kinds of godawful, but the amazing visuals were so amazing they won me over. Here's to hoping Cameron let SOMEONE ELSE write the sequel scripts. James Cameron is a genius director and visual stylist, but he's not much of a writer.
posted by zardoz at 12:50 PM on April 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Of course, the script was ten kinds of godawful, but the amazing visuals were so amazing they won me over. Here's to hoping Cameron let SOMEONE ELSE write the sequel scripts. James Cameron is a genius director and visual stylist, but he's not much of a writer.
posted by zardoz at 12:50 PM on April 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Disney isn't waiting -- the new theme park opens at the end of May this year.
posted by hippybear at 12:50 PM on April 22, 2017
posted by hippybear at 12:50 PM on April 22, 2017
And if it were a single attraction or even a small plaza, I would totally agree with you.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:50 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:50 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's two rides, shopping, dining, and an immersive environment to walk through. It's in Animal Kingdom which means they have to make the entire environment work like it actually exists, which I'm sure is an interesting challenge.
posted by hippybear at 12:55 PM on April 22, 2017
posted by hippybear at 12:55 PM on April 22, 2017
I have to say, I went to the Cars environment in California Adventure like two weeks after it opened, and coming around the corner and suddenly being confronted by the actual street from the movie created in such exquisite detail was a bit mentally displacing.
posted by hippybear at 12:57 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 12:57 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
“Great to be working with the best team in the business!" sounds vaguely like a Trump Tweet, which probably means the whole endeavor is doomed to abject failure.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:57 PM on April 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:57 PM on April 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
I can't see the point of one sequel, let alone several
Depends on what happen, dunnit? I don't have much faith that they'll be interesting, but there are interesting things to do.
*The Pandora overmind just absorbed a scientifically-educated person for the first time, instead of brute animals and superstitious hunter-gatherers. What will that do to it? What happens when it understands what it is, and maybe acquires a theoretically-oriented, materialistic understanding of the universe?
*Pandoran overmind grows mass driver to chuck rocks at Earth and end the human threat
*Pandoran overmind grows starship to visit / liberate / conquer Earth
*Pandoran overmind goes bad one way or another and Navi rebel against it
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:57 PM on April 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
Depends on what happen, dunnit? I don't have much faith that they'll be interesting, but there are interesting things to do.
*The Pandora overmind just absorbed a scientifically-educated person for the first time, instead of brute animals and superstitious hunter-gatherers. What will that do to it? What happens when it understands what it is, and maybe acquires a theoretically-oriented, materialistic understanding of the universe?
*Pandoran overmind grows mass driver to chuck rocks at Earth and end the human threat
*Pandoran overmind grows starship to visit / liberate / conquer Earth
*Pandoran overmind goes bad one way or another and Navi rebel against it
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:57 PM on April 22, 2017 [10 favorites]
sammyo: "Herbie drives to Pandora."
Freaki Na'vi
posted by chavenet at 1:04 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Freaki Na'vi
posted by chavenet at 1:04 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Cat From Outer Space Goes To Na'vi
But only if Sandy Duncan is in it.
posted by hippybear at 1:05 PM on April 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
But only if Sandy Duncan is in it.
posted by hippybear at 1:05 PM on April 22, 2017 [6 favorites]
No one asked for this. It's the movie that'll come out in the summer and then bored, heat-exhausted people will sigh and say, Enh, let's see Avatar.
The first made a bajillion bucks despite everyone forgetting it existed, so someone probably asked for it. Avatar 2 will make another bajillion, and someone will ask for the third, and so on, even if it's the equivalent of a demo blu-ray for high-end floor model tvs (in fact, one time it was used exactly with that purpose around here).
posted by lmfsilva at 1:05 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
The first made a bajillion bucks despite everyone forgetting it existed, so someone probably asked for it. Avatar 2 will make another bajillion, and someone will ask for the third, and so on, even if it's the equivalent of a demo blu-ray for high-end floor model tvs (in fact, one time it was used exactly with that purpose around here).
posted by lmfsilva at 1:05 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
And every one of them will get many thin posts to MetaFilter long before it even happens!
posted by Wolfdog at 1:07 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Wolfdog at 1:07 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Be the Avatar sequel post you want to see!
posted by hippybear at 1:09 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 1:09 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
The timeframe is not unreasonable if you consider:
Cameron wants a truly great story into which he can fit one or two great starring roles. He has made pop culture landmarks (Aliens, T2) and he has amazing box office hits that have had very low cultural persistence (Titanic, Avatar) and it is because the stories were weak and the star turns were meh.
Modern SF films dual track pre-production and principal photography between live action and CG, and then start to split up the CG into as many as a DOZEN separate simultaneous ongoing shot production efforts (not infrequently spread out among CG studios around the world). If Cameron wants to supervise live action and CG production both personally (and given his sense of how important the CG has become, that's quite reasonable) it's basically 18 months straight to put a feature in the can. Totally plausible that he might still not be done on pre-production, and then go into 12-16 months of live action principal photography, 24 months of post and CG to get the first two movies out. Take a year off to relax and rethink back end two film stories, 6-9 months of live action reshoots, and back on the CG / post wagon.
posted by MattD at 1:10 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Cameron wants a truly great story into which he can fit one or two great starring roles. He has made pop culture landmarks (Aliens, T2) and he has amazing box office hits that have had very low cultural persistence (Titanic, Avatar) and it is because the stories were weak and the star turns were meh.
Modern SF films dual track pre-production and principal photography between live action and CG, and then start to split up the CG into as many as a DOZEN separate simultaneous ongoing shot production efforts (not infrequently spread out among CG studios around the world). If Cameron wants to supervise live action and CG production both personally (and given his sense of how important the CG has become, that's quite reasonable) it's basically 18 months straight to put a feature in the can. Totally plausible that he might still not be done on pre-production, and then go into 12-16 months of live action principal photography, 24 months of post and CG to get the first two movies out. Take a year off to relax and rethink back end two film stories, 6-9 months of live action reshoots, and back on the CG / post wagon.
posted by MattD at 1:10 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's the movie that'll come out in the summer and then bored, heat-exhausted people will sigh and say, Enh, let's see Avatar.
December release dates, so it'll be fighting with another Disney space-opera franchise.
posted by Fizz at 1:10 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
December release dates, so it'll be fighting with another Disney space-opera franchise.
posted by Fizz at 1:10 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
OMG Ken Berry is also still alive! Let's get them both in the crossover!
posted by hippybear at 1:11 PM on April 22, 2017
posted by hippybear at 1:11 PM on April 22, 2017
I have never found any other 3D film, ever, to deliver that kind of immersion.
This is so true -- there has not yet been a single 3D movie to have been as complete and immersive an experience as Avatar. It really showed the possibilities of the technology.
Avatar, and (yes, believe it) Jackass 3D are the two best 3D movies ever made, as far as showing that, properly used, 3D can hugely improve a film experience, and not just be a gimmick.
posted by tclark at 1:12 PM on April 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is so true -- there has not yet been a single 3D movie to have been as complete and immersive an experience as Avatar. It really showed the possibilities of the technology.
Avatar, and (yes, believe it) Jackass 3D are the two best 3D movies ever made, as far as showing that, properly used, 3D can hugely improve a film experience, and not just be a gimmick.
posted by tclark at 1:12 PM on April 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
You guys keep directing all your hate onto John like this, Zack is going to get jealous...
posted by HuronBob at 1:14 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by HuronBob at 1:14 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Fabulous Beasts movies will be hitting theaters in late November and it'll be likely they're going to be still sucking up a fair amount of box office dollars in December.
posted by Ber at 1:15 PM on April 22, 2017
posted by Ber at 1:15 PM on April 22, 2017
Stop trying to make Avatar a thing, James.
What are you talking about? I'm sure it will be streets ahead.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 1:17 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
What are you talking about? I'm sure it will be streets ahead.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 1:17 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Avatar, and (yes, believe it) Jackass 3D are the two best 3D movies ever made, as far as showing that, properly used, 3D can hugely improve a film experience, and not just be a gimmick.
I thought that Gravity's use of 3D moved the medium forward in very significant ways.
posted by hippybear at 1:18 PM on April 22, 2017
I thought that Gravity's use of 3D moved the medium forward in very significant ways.
posted by hippybear at 1:18 PM on April 22, 2017
I would love to read about this confab (if there is an article that you remember).
I would have sworn on a stack of Bibles that it was an AV Club article, but I can't find it on my phone right now. I don't recall it giving much more detail than I did plus a quote or two. Memory being memory, who knows how accurate mine is. But it is a vivid memory.
posted by middleclasstool at 1:20 PM on April 22, 2017
I would have sworn on a stack of Bibles that it was an AV Club article, but I can't find it on my phone right now. I don't recall it giving much more detail than I did plus a quote or two. Memory being memory, who knows how accurate mine is. But it is a vivid memory.
posted by middleclasstool at 1:20 PM on April 22, 2017
You guys keep directing all your hate onto John like this, Zack is going to get jealous...
Less hating on and more confused at his use of his time, TBH.
posted by Artw at 1:21 PM on April 22, 2017
Less hating on and more confused at his use of his time, TBH.
posted by Artw at 1:21 PM on April 22, 2017
Did more googling. It appears likely that I can't find it because the article was pulled, because it isn't true.
posted by middleclasstool at 1:24 PM on April 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by middleclasstool at 1:24 PM on April 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
Cameron's version of having fun is all his work with oceanic study and underwater documentary stuff. Ghosts Of The Abyss, Volcanos Of The Deep Sea, Aliens Of The Deep, Deepsea Challenge... That's what he does when he wants to have fun.
And I've loved all of these films. I'd gladly take more ocean documentaries.
I would also watch his version of Peter Watts' Rifter's Trilogy, that would be right up Cameron's alley.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 1:27 PM on April 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
And I've loved all of these films. I'd gladly take more ocean documentaries.
I would also watch his version of Peter Watts' Rifter's Trilogy, that would be right up Cameron's alley.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 1:27 PM on April 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Avatar, and (yes, believe it) Jackass 3D are the two best 3D movies ever made, as far as showing that, properly used, 3D can hugely improve a film experience, and not just be a gimmick.
*cough* Dr. Strange *cough*
posted by Bringer Tom at 1:37 PM on April 22, 2017
*cough* Dr. Strange *cough*
posted by Bringer Tom at 1:37 PM on April 22, 2017
Avatar, and (yes, believe it) Jackass 3D are the two best 3D movies ever made, as far as showing that, properly used, 3D can hugely improve a film experience, and not just be a gimmick.
Pina 3D also. Brilliant use of the medium.
posted by wemayfreeze at 1:40 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Pina 3D also. Brilliant use of the medium.
posted by wemayfreeze at 1:40 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
*Pandoran overmind grows starship to visit / liberate / conquer Earth
If there are this many sequels planned, something like this seems a likely development. It was made clear that Unobtainium was the key to relatively easy interstellar travel (presumably we got to Pandora to get the first samples the hard way). Thing is, the Pandorans don't have to travel five light-years to mine it; they're sitting on mountain ranges made of it. They could presumably make starships far superior to ours and maybe weapons more powerful than ours, even with relatively low technology and primitive manufacturing techniques. It also seems likely that, while Pandora's atmosphere is poisonous to Earth life, Earth's atmosphere might not be poisonous to Pandorans.
posted by Bringer Tom at 1:43 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
If there are this many sequels planned, something like this seems a likely development. It was made clear that Unobtainium was the key to relatively easy interstellar travel (presumably we got to Pandora to get the first samples the hard way). Thing is, the Pandorans don't have to travel five light-years to mine it; they're sitting on mountain ranges made of it. They could presumably make starships far superior to ours and maybe weapons more powerful than ours, even with relatively low technology and primitive manufacturing techniques. It also seems likely that, while Pandora's atmosphere is poisonous to Earth life, Earth's atmosphere might not be poisonous to Pandorans.
posted by Bringer Tom at 1:43 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Man, y'all are cynical. I for one am going to enjoy getting stoned with my friends and going to see Fern Gully: Cat People Redux when it comes out. Not everything has to be Citizen Kane.
posted by Feyala at 1:45 PM on April 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Feyala at 1:45 PM on April 22, 2017 [14 favorites]
OMG PINA.
That was literally the BEST use of 3D I've ever encountered. A film about dance usually produced on a stage where the filming puts each audience member in the perspective of watching dance on a stage. I mean, watching Pina's choreography is astounding no matter what, but that movie... *swoon*
posted by hippybear at 1:54 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
That was literally the BEST use of 3D I've ever encountered. A film about dance usually produced on a stage where the filming puts each audience member in the perspective of watching dance on a stage. I mean, watching Pina's choreography is astounding no matter what, but that movie... *swoon*
posted by hippybear at 1:54 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
For my money, the best use of 3D I've ever seen is still Hugo. Like Pina, it went for using depth to creating the experience of watching a play on a stage rather than ham-fisted IT'S REALLY REAL-ness, and the effect is nothing short of astounding.
posted by Itaxpica at 2:07 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Itaxpica at 2:07 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
OMG Ken Berry is also still alive!
Just as an aside, he was interviewed on the Gilbert Gottfried podcast and it's great! He got his start on the Arthur Godfrey Show and worked in Abbott & Costello's stage show!
posted by rhizome at 2:17 PM on April 22, 2017
Just as an aside, he was interviewed on the Gilbert Gottfried podcast and it's great! He got his start on the Arthur Godfrey Show and worked in Abbott & Costello's stage show!
posted by rhizome at 2:17 PM on April 22, 2017
I think that Cameron is doing pretty much what you'd expect anyone to do when they had had the experience of manifesting a vision that was clear in their own mind, everyone saying that it would be a colossal failure, then that movie turning out to be the highest-grossing movie ever, twice. And I'm hugely amused that anyone believed that Cameron would change his plans based on someone's tweet.
posted by Halloween Jack at 3:08 PM on April 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 3:08 PM on April 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
If George Lucas can announce a series of nine films that take 40 years to make, Cameron can do a four flick arc.
posted by rhizome at 3:27 PM on April 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 3:27 PM on April 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
From my favorite analysis of Avatar:
SERGEANT STRAW MAN: What, you don't want your legs back?
JUGHEAD: Well, it's just that I've already been a Smurf that can run and jump and move in ways that even a human can't, and the audience already knows from the trailer that I'm going to go totally native. It just seems like the whole incentive of getting legs in my human body is kind of null before it's even offered.
SERGEANT STRAW MAN: How 'bout we work it into the plot that later on, when it comes time to choose being a full time Smurf, your Smurf body is by that time crippled and can't walk, so it means giving up the chance of having legs as a human in order to be crippled as a Smurf?
JUGHEAD: Wow! Yeah, that would be an intensely dramatic dilemma! By forcing me to give up something instead of just becoming more awesome, that would show the love for my upcoming love interest and the sacrifice I make to be with her, as well as how deep my bond with the Smurf society has become. It would show real heroism, and conflict, and hard decisions, and...
JAMES CAMERON: Shut the fuck up.
posted by My Dad at 3:34 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
SERGEANT STRAW MAN: What, you don't want your legs back?
JUGHEAD: Well, it's just that I've already been a Smurf that can run and jump and move in ways that even a human can't, and the audience already knows from the trailer that I'm going to go totally native. It just seems like the whole incentive of getting legs in my human body is kind of null before it's even offered.
SERGEANT STRAW MAN: How 'bout we work it into the plot that later on, when it comes time to choose being a full time Smurf, your Smurf body is by that time crippled and can't walk, so it means giving up the chance of having legs as a human in order to be crippled as a Smurf?
JUGHEAD: Wow! Yeah, that would be an intensely dramatic dilemma! By forcing me to give up something instead of just becoming more awesome, that would show the love for my upcoming love interest and the sacrifice I make to be with her, as well as how deep my bond with the Smurf society has become. It would show real heroism, and conflict, and hard decisions, and...
JAMES CAMERON: Shut the fuck up.
posted by My Dad at 3:34 PM on April 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Dr. Strange
Caught it at home in 2D and it was the first time I've said in quite some time "I wish I'd seen that in 3D".
posted by Artw at 3:36 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Caught it at home in 2D and it was the first time I've said in quite some time "I wish I'd seen that in 3D".
posted by Artw at 3:36 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh man all my Avatar fan theories bubbling back up again.
I reckon the Pandorans are engineered colonists, based on them being pretty dissimilar to the entire rest of the Pandora ecosystem. Those giant arches looked like the wreck of an old ship. This implies a Nav'i space empire out there somewhere - and humanity's just declared war on one of their colonies.
posted by xiw at 4:23 PM on April 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
I reckon the Pandorans are engineered colonists, based on them being pretty dissimilar to the entire rest of the Pandora ecosystem. Those giant arches looked like the wreck of an old ship. This implies a Nav'i space empire out there somewhere - and humanity's just declared war on one of their colonies.
posted by xiw at 4:23 PM on April 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
The entirety o the planets wildlife has USB ports. This suggests a pre-WiFi society.
posted by Artw at 4:24 PM on April 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:24 PM on April 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
As long as those Aliens are stuck on their home world, I don't care how beautiful it is, humans have it better. Space travel for the win!
posted by Beholder at 4:28 PM on April 22, 2017
posted by Beholder at 4:28 PM on April 22, 2017
"a pre-WiFi society"
an entire generation of humans under 10 years old just dismissed you as even existing.
posted by hippybear at 4:37 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
an entire generation of humans under 10 years old just dismissed you as even existing.
posted by hippybear at 4:37 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
Gravity was the first movie where I was glad I saw it in 3D. Strange was the first where I wished I had.
posted by middleclasstool at 4:37 PM on April 22, 2017
posted by middleclasstool at 4:37 PM on April 22, 2017
All I care about is, and I am being serious here, not making a cheap joke: Can he at least spend five minutes considering a typeface other than Papyrus?
posted by 1f2frfbf at 6:20 PM on April 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by 1f2frfbf at 6:20 PM on April 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
Lam oer you lesnonrra mooks would learn Na'vi like true cinaesthetes he wouldn't need to use Papyrus.
posted by No-sword at 10:04 PM on April 22, 2017
posted by No-sword at 10:04 PM on April 22, 2017
I would also watch his version of Peter Watts' Rifter's Trilogy, that would be right up Cameron's alley.
Man, as much as I loved much of the worldbuilding in Rifters, what you learn in the last couple of books about the actual origin of the central conflicts Lennie faces really undercuts it for me. But that's neither here nor there. Rifters, unlike Avatar, has characters I remember and theorycraft about 10+ years later, even if I disagree with some of Watts' authorial decisions.
posted by Alterscape at 10:16 PM on April 22, 2017
Man, as much as I loved much of the worldbuilding in Rifters, what you learn in the last couple of books about the actual origin of the central conflicts Lennie faces really undercuts it for me. But that's neither here nor there. Rifters, unlike Avatar, has characters I remember and theorycraft about 10+ years later, even if I disagree with some of Watts' authorial decisions.
posted by Alterscape at 10:16 PM on April 22, 2017
> *Pandoran overmind goes bad one way or another and Navi rebel against it
* Pandoran overmind goes Eccentric and faffs about the galaxy, solving problems in amusing episodic hijinks. Also it took the planet along for the trip
posted by vanar sena at 10:29 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
* Pandoran overmind goes Eccentric and faffs about the galaxy, solving problems in amusing episodic hijinks. Also it took the planet along for the trip
posted by vanar sena at 10:29 PM on April 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
* Pandoran overmind goes Eccentric and faffs about the galaxy, solving problems in amusing episodic hijinks. Also it took the planet along for the trip
So, Farscape, basically?
I'll allow it.
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:28 AM on April 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
So, Farscape, basically?
I'll allow it.
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:28 AM on April 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Pretty close, I was thinking Lexx actually. I know Cameron won't take inspiration from that show, and that upsets me a bit.
posted by vanar sena at 6:50 AM on April 23, 2017
posted by vanar sena at 6:50 AM on April 23, 2017
It's weird how little rewatchability that Avatar has. I've seen the two Terminators, Aliens and The Abyss countless times and none of them wear out their welcome but while I enjoyed Avatar when I saw it, I've never had a single urge to see it again.
posted by octothorpe at 6:54 AM on April 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 6:54 AM on April 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
I still wish that Cameron could have let go of his ego a little bit and had someone come in a write a new draft of the script that didn't sound like it was still full of placeholder dialog. The fact that he actually filmed this with "unobtanium" still in the script and lines like "we're not in Kansas anymore" made it seem like he was way overextended on this project and didn't ever get around to finishing the script.
posted by octothorpe at 7:39 AM on April 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 7:39 AM on April 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
TBH Unobtanium always seemed like a perfectly fine engineering joke to me.
posted by Artw at 7:46 AM on April 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:46 AM on April 23, 2017 [4 favorites]
It totally broke my suspension every single time someone said it.
posted by octothorpe at 8:05 AM on April 23, 2017
posted by octothorpe at 8:05 AM on April 23, 2017
It totally broke my suspension every single time someone said it.
FINE. Let's just call it LV-426, and simultaneously piss-off and validate two completely different subsets of geek.
posted by mikelieman at 8:09 AM on April 23, 2017
FINE. Let's just call it LV-426, and simultaneously piss-off and validate two completely different subsets of geek.
posted by mikelieman at 8:09 AM on April 23, 2017
Isn't the atomic weight of Unobtanium THX-1138 units?
posted by hippybear at 8:11 AM on April 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 8:11 AM on April 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I have never laughed so hard in a theatre as when the asshole marine in the giant mech suit pulled out a giant knife and proceeded to have a mech suit knife fight
posted by benzenedream at 8:26 AM on April 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 8:26 AM on April 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
ROBOT KNIFE FIGHT ... robot knife ... robot knife fight?
posted by Countess Elena at 8:33 AM on April 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 8:33 AM on April 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Did the original Avatar have the big dichotomy between the visuals and the story/acting of any film? There are giant portions of the film where 99%+ of the frame is CGI content but it looks so real that you forget that it is CG. That's amazing...yet the story and acting are as generic and mediocre as any random Hollywood film.
As for advances in the 3D, I vote for Cave of Forgotten Dreams. It's a weird, inconsistent film on many levels but the use of the 3D cameras in the very narrow, deep caves really gave you a sense of perspective of the place.
posted by mmascolino at 9:05 AM on April 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
As for advances in the 3D, I vote for Cave of Forgotten Dreams. It's a weird, inconsistent film on many levels but the use of the 3D cameras in the very narrow, deep caves really gave you a sense of perspective of the place.
posted by mmascolino at 9:05 AM on April 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
If Duncan Idaho can end the Cobalt Jihad or whatever the fuck this is going to be before it gets started, I'll be eternally grateful.
posted by ethansr at 10:34 AM on April 23, 2017
posted by ethansr at 10:34 AM on April 23, 2017
That's your solution to everything. You're living in your own Duncan Idaho, underground like a wild potato.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 1:14 PM on April 23, 2017
posted by ActingTheGoat at 1:14 PM on April 23, 2017
Did the original Avatar have the big dichotomy between the visuals and the story/acting of any film? There are giant portions of the film where 99%+ of the frame is CGI content but it looks so real that you forget that it is CG. That's amazing...yet the story and acting are as generic and mediocre as any random Hollywood film.
I remember someone calling Avatar the closest thing Hollywood made to a blockbuster videogame: extremely pretty, anthropomorphic mascots, lots of action, but a plot and acting so bad someone replaying the game will skip all cutscenes.
posted by lmfsilva at 2:02 PM on April 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I remember someone calling Avatar the closest thing Hollywood made to a blockbuster videogame: extremely pretty, anthropomorphic mascots, lots of action, but a plot and acting so bad someone replaying the game will skip all cutscenes.
posted by lmfsilva at 2:02 PM on April 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I was thinking Lexx actually
In that case, it should be "Pandoran overmind goes Eccentric and faffs about the galaxy, solving problems in amusing but ultimately nihilistic episodic hijinks which lead to the destruction of the universe. Also it took the planet along for the trip"
posted by Ashwagandha at 5:34 PM on April 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
In that case, it should be "Pandoran overmind goes Eccentric and faffs about the galaxy, solving problems in amusing but ultimately nihilistic episodic hijinks which lead to the destruction of the universe. Also it took the planet along for the trip"
posted by Ashwagandha at 5:34 PM on April 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
The milporn stuff was pretty neat in the first Avatar and the environmental stuff was also very pretty and nice, but the two parts needed to be separate movies. It was just too goofy having them together. Yeah, I get the idea of juxtaposition for the sake of interesting storytelling, but this was just twee.
posted by turbid dahlia at 5:59 PM on April 23, 2017
posted by turbid dahlia at 5:59 PM on April 23, 2017
A roaming Pandoran overmind with a Lexxian bent would basically be a Tyranid horde.
posted by Artw at 7:18 PM on April 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 7:18 PM on April 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
And that's the most MetaFilter sentence ever written. Good job, Artw!
posted by hippybear at 7:43 PM on April 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 7:43 PM on April 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
I like to think of the overmind as a weakly Solaris-like entity.
posted by Artw at 10:20 PM on April 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 10:20 PM on April 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hopefully these movies will finally answer the question of whether everyone on Planet Avatar speaks in Papyrus or if maybe there are also some smurfgiraffes who speak in Neuland, Wonton, or Legende.
posted by straight at 11:15 PM on April 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by straight at 11:15 PM on April 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I saw Avatar once in the theater. My takeaway was a headache from the 3D, and it felt like the movie was longer than it actually was.
Also, I never understood why, when they have an interatmospheric space ship, they decide to try to drop their bomb from a low altitude.
Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
posted by Fleebnork at 5:41 AM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also, I never understood why, when they have an interatmospheric space ship, they decide to try to drop their bomb from a low altitude.
Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
posted by Fleebnork at 5:41 AM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wouldn't it be better for him to just make "Titanic II: Lets Sink the Damn Boat Again"?
posted by yhbc at 6:06 AM on April 24, 2017
posted by yhbc at 6:06 AM on April 24, 2017
Also, I never understood why, when they have an interatmospheric space ship, they decide to try to drop their bomb from a low altitude.
Their bomb is just a bunch of cargo pallets bungeed together, so if they drop if from high altitude the wind will rip it apart and it will stop being a bomb. If they drop it from orbit it will just burn up.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:23 AM on April 24, 2017
Their bomb is just a bunch of cargo pallets bungeed together, so if they drop if from high altitude the wind will rip it apart and it will stop being a bomb. If they drop it from orbit it will just burn up.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:23 AM on April 24, 2017
Eh, the whole thing just seemed really dumb. I know it was to set up their final battle, but I feel like it could have been done differently.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:45 AM on April 24, 2017
posted by Fleebnork at 7:45 AM on April 24, 2017
The "Nuke From Orbit" solution makes no sense. Mining Unobtainium in a poisonous atmosphere is hard enough, now you want the place to be radioactive as well? It already glows in the dark, so what's the upside?
posted by WhackyparseThis at 7:51 AM on April 24, 2017
posted by WhackyparseThis at 7:51 AM on April 24, 2017
I only said "nuke from orbit" because I was quoting Aliens, another Cameron movie. That part of my comment wasn't intended as a viable solution.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:55 AM on April 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Fleebnork at 7:55 AM on April 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
Wouldn't it be better for him to just make "Titanic II: Lets Sink the Damn Boat Again"?
Cameron missed the boat on that. Somebody already made Titanic II. It is great if you are into bad movies.
posted by bh at 10:14 AM on April 24, 2017
Cameron missed the boat on that. Somebody already made Titanic II. It is great if you are into bad movies.
posted by bh at 10:14 AM on April 24, 2017
I know it's a film that tried to use feelings about the immorality of imperialism to tug, but it was like an entire planet, no? If there was only a single "tree" then that point could have been important, if an actual huge world it puts embarrassing small opinion of the corporate overlord, why wouldn't he be maneuvering the red, lavender and dark dark blue tribes from the next continent over to invade and mess with the Na'vi?
posted by sammyo at 8:49 AM on April 25, 2017
posted by sammyo at 8:49 AM on April 25, 2017
Oh God Oh God Oh God Indeed
posted by hippybear at 10:04 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 10:04 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh the upside, with the track record at Animal Kingdom, it'll be broken in 6 months and too expensive to fix.
posted by mikelieman at 11:56 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mikelieman at 11:56 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
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posted by Artw at 11:59 AM on April 22, 2017 [5 favorites]