But 40 and 50 meters would be very difficult
April 23, 2017 2:11 PM Subscribe
That was a great read, thanks for the link
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 8:06 PM on April 23, 2017
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 8:06 PM on April 23, 2017
I've yet to visit Singapore, although I'd like to. Australian ex-pats in Singapore have a reputation of being The Worst, though.
When I was I school we read a lot about the Fall of Singapore in WWII. Surrender wasn't a foregone conclusion although the local commanders plainly felt otherwise. The Japanese position wasn't nearly as strong as it was perceived to be, although air superiority wasn't in doubt. I sometimes find myself wishing the allies had fought on, particularly so given the murderous aftermath for the civilian population; the Imperial Japanese Army massacred local Chinese and undertook a program of ethnic cleansing against Indians. They should have been defended.
Singapore has had creepy right-wing authoritarian governments for the past 50-plus years. All their achievements should be balanced against the years in prison their opponents spent in jail or with their freedoms otherwise curtailed. Let the sea take them.
posted by um at 8:09 PM on April 23, 2017
When I was I school we read a lot about the Fall of Singapore in WWII. Surrender wasn't a foregone conclusion although the local commanders plainly felt otherwise. The Japanese position wasn't nearly as strong as it was perceived to be, although air superiority wasn't in doubt. I sometimes find myself wishing the allies had fought on, particularly so given the murderous aftermath for the civilian population; the Imperial Japanese Army massacred local Chinese and undertook a program of ethnic cleansing against Indians. They should have been defended.
Singapore has had creepy right-wing authoritarian governments for the past 50-plus years. All their achievements should be balanced against the years in prison their opponents spent in jail or with their freedoms otherwise curtailed. Let the sea take them.
posted by um at 8:09 PM on April 23, 2017
One of the most fascinating documentaries I have ever watched is Sand Wars (2013). Seriously, please watch it.
posted by yueliang at 9:40 PM on April 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by yueliang at 9:40 PM on April 23, 2017 [2 favorites]
Demise of Singapore ruling party == demise of Singapore?
Possibly as we know it, yes. I wonder though if the ruling party is really so creepy as to deserve being taken by the sea, as you put it.
posted by satoshi at 10:58 PM on April 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Possibly as we know it, yes. I wonder though if the ruling party is really so creepy as to deserve being taken by the sea, as you put it.
posted by satoshi at 10:58 PM on April 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Demise of Singapore ruling party == demise of Singapore?
That's certainty what they'd like us to believe, yes. Like other authoritarian regimes, the national myth is built on the unique genius of the party leaders to be Singapore's saviors. I've had many friends from Singapore and suspect otherwise, but what do I know?
posted by 1adam12 at 6:45 AM on April 24, 2017
That's certainty what they'd like us to believe, yes. Like other authoritarian regimes, the national myth is built on the unique genius of the party leaders to be Singapore's saviors. I've had many friends from Singapore and suspect otherwise, but what do I know?
posted by 1adam12 at 6:45 AM on April 24, 2017
An interesting and fine piece of writing. Liked the way it asks just a little of the reader throughout, and “We weren’t criminals,” he said. “We were just doing our job.”
posted by hawthorne at 8:55 AM on April 24, 2017
posted by hawthorne at 8:55 AM on April 24, 2017
Singapore is a completely fascinating place if you have any interest in urban planning or related subjects (such as land reclamation), and especially if you come from a North American/Western European perspective. It is also for different reasons a fabulous place to eat.
The majority of Singaporeans, something like 80% to 85%, live in high-rise public housing. Most visitors to Singapore will stay in the city center and never get out into the public housing ("HDB flats") but if you've any interest in planning, architecture, etc. I strongly encourage you to go visit an HDB housing estate.
The biggest thing is that from a visual perspective, the concrete, vaguely Brutalist-looking, high-rise towers will scream "these are the projects" to a North American, with all the deeply negative connotations thereof. But these HDB flats are nothing of the sort (how could they be, of course, if over 80% of the entire population lives in them) -- they have lots of stores, hawker centers for food, functioning community space, etc., and are fully functioning places.
For those of us, such as myself, who live in countries where "public housing" has supremely negative connotations it is a very different and strange, but rewarding, experience to visit "towers in the park" that actually work.
The other thing that I found fascinating is that Singapore has straight-up ethnic and non-Singaporean/non-Malaysian citizen quotas in HDB housing, called the Ethnic Integration Policy and SPR Quota, so that the ethnic balance* of each housing estate is roughly proportional to that of the nation as a whole. I mention this not to pass judgment as a non-Singaporean (and not to start a flame war here!) but because it's also a different way of thinking.
*Singapore's population is primarily composed of three main ethnic groups: Chinese, Malays, and Indians.
posted by andrewesque at 10:47 AM on April 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
The majority of Singaporeans, something like 80% to 85%, live in high-rise public housing. Most visitors to Singapore will stay in the city center and never get out into the public housing ("HDB flats") but if you've any interest in planning, architecture, etc. I strongly encourage you to go visit an HDB housing estate.
The biggest thing is that from a visual perspective, the concrete, vaguely Brutalist-looking, high-rise towers will scream "these are the projects" to a North American, with all the deeply negative connotations thereof. But these HDB flats are nothing of the sort (how could they be, of course, if over 80% of the entire population lives in them) -- they have lots of stores, hawker centers for food, functioning community space, etc., and are fully functioning places.
For those of us, such as myself, who live in countries where "public housing" has supremely negative connotations it is a very different and strange, but rewarding, experience to visit "towers in the park" that actually work.
The other thing that I found fascinating is that Singapore has straight-up ethnic and non-Singaporean/non-Malaysian citizen quotas in HDB housing, called the Ethnic Integration Policy and SPR Quota, so that the ethnic balance* of each housing estate is roughly proportional to that of the nation as a whole. I mention this not to pass judgment as a non-Singaporean (and not to start a flame war here!) but because it's also a different way of thinking.
*Singapore's population is primarily composed of three main ethnic groups: Chinese, Malays, and Indians.
posted by andrewesque at 10:47 AM on April 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
Ethnic Integration Policy and SPR Quota
That is fascinating, andrewesque. In many places, people of similar ethnicities tend to self-segregate. I could see this kind of government policy helping cement a solid national (contra ethnic) identity.
posted by porpoise at 1:55 PM on April 24, 2017
That is fascinating, andrewesque. In many places, people of similar ethnicities tend to self-segregate. I could see this kind of government policy helping cement a solid national (contra ethnic) identity.
posted by porpoise at 1:55 PM on April 24, 2017
That is fascinating, andrewesque. In many places, people of similar ethnicities tend to self-segregate. I could see this kind of government policy helping cement a solid national (contra ethnic) identity.
Yes, that was the idea. Although some feel it has also been used as a way of actually cementing majority rule, since minorities will always be the minority in every voting constituency. The GRC system was ostensibly introduced to remedy this; it creates multi-member constituencies where at least one member of parliament must be from a minority race. However many feel GRCs are more of a political machine used by the PAP to make it harder for the opposition to gain a foothold. And most recently, we introduced an amendment to the Constitution whereby the President (a mostly ceremonial role since Singapore uses a parliamentary system) needs to be a person from a minority race every so many years.
Anyway, Singapore politics can be fairly complicated. You need to realise that the country is deeply unusual: it is tiny, it has negligible natural resources (including freshwater and arable land), it is surrounded by larger countries that have never really wanted it to be there, and it never wanted to be independent in the first place. I'm not a fan of our authoritarian overlords, but I have to admit that if there is a place where authoritarianism is justified, it probably looks a lot like Singapore. It's easy for people to quickly dismiss the political situation here as yet another tropical country ruled by despots, but things are not so simple and straightforward. It helps to keep that in mind when making comments about "let[ting] the sea take them".
posted by destrius at 6:31 PM on April 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yes, that was the idea. Although some feel it has also been used as a way of actually cementing majority rule, since minorities will always be the minority in every voting constituency. The GRC system was ostensibly introduced to remedy this; it creates multi-member constituencies where at least one member of parliament must be from a minority race. However many feel GRCs are more of a political machine used by the PAP to make it harder for the opposition to gain a foothold. And most recently, we introduced an amendment to the Constitution whereby the President (a mostly ceremonial role since Singapore uses a parliamentary system) needs to be a person from a minority race every so many years.
Anyway, Singapore politics can be fairly complicated. You need to realise that the country is deeply unusual: it is tiny, it has negligible natural resources (including freshwater and arable land), it is surrounded by larger countries that have never really wanted it to be there, and it never wanted to be independent in the first place. I'm not a fan of our authoritarian overlords, but I have to admit that if there is a place where authoritarianism is justified, it probably looks a lot like Singapore. It's easy for people to quickly dismiss the political situation here as yet another tropical country ruled by despots, but things are not so simple and straightforward. It helps to keep that in mind when making comments about "let[ting] the sea take them".
posted by destrius at 6:31 PM on April 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
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posted by ejoey at 8:04 PM on April 23, 2017