Obstruction of Justice, Witness Intimidation, Oh My!
May 12, 2017 9:54 AM   Subscribe

In what is arguably the most turbulent week of the fledgling Trump Administration, FBI Director James Comey was fired, in spite of the fact that he was conducting an active counterintelligence investigation into possible collusion between the Trump Campaign and the Russian government.

As the story broke, the Trump team scrambled to provide justification for the move. Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein's letter regarding Comey's handling of the investigation into Hillary was repeatedly cited as justification, costing Rosenstein much of the good will he had accumulated over nearly 3 decades as a federal prosecutor. Also providing commentary was Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, who had already recused himself from all matters related the Trump-Russia investigation, raising questions about Sessions role in the decision to terminate Comey. Comparisons to Richard Nixon's Saturday Night Massacre have been plentiful.

However, the story quickly began to unravel. With surrogates suggesting that Rosenstein's memorandum was produced without Trump's knowledge or request and that the decision had simultaneously been brewing for months and only been on the table for a week, Trump was interviewed by Lester Holt. During the interview, Trump threw his staff under the bus, insisting that he had decided to fire Comey irrespective of the recommendations of the AG and DAG. It was also reported that shortly before his firing, Comey requested more resources for the Russia investigation.

Further undermining Trump's credibility are reports that in a private dinner with then-FBI Director Comey, the embattled executive repeatedly asked for a commitment of personal loyalty. Complicating matters further for Trump is a tweet suggesting that there might be tapes of the Loyalty Dinner in an apparent effort to intimidate Comey. Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi (D-IL) has already called for the alleged tapes to be released, while Bloomberg reports that administration staffers refuse to comment on whether Trump has been recording conversations.

The Democratic response to Director Comey's firing has been fast and furious, with Oregon's senior Senator, Ron Wyden calling for Comey to appear in an open hearing to testify about the state of the investigation into Russia's electoral interference at the time of his firing. In the Senate, Democrats have used various tactics to slow business to a halt in order to get a special independent prosecutor to investigate the Trump-Russia connection.

In other related news, CNN reported that a Federal Grand Jury had issued subpoenas for the communications of disgraced former National Security Advisor Mike Flynn. Meanwhile in West Virginia, journalist Daniel Heyman was arrested for daring to ask questions of HHS Secretary Tom Price outside of a press conference. This morning the AP reported Trump's lawyer's said that he had no income from Russia in the last ten years "with some exceptions".
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal (3033 comments total) 140 users marked this as a favorite
 
Thank you!
posted by Behemoth at 9:57 AM on May 12, 2017 [15 favorites]


And strangely, Gizmodo tries to phish trump staffers.
posted by k5.user at 9:58 AM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


for the sake of my cardiovascular system, i hope this is the last trump thread, one way or another.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:58 AM on May 12, 2017 [23 favorites]


Senator Murphy (D-CT): Law firm @POTUS used to show he has no ties to Russia was named Russia Law Firm of the Year for their extensive ties to Russia. Unreal.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:59 AM on May 12, 2017 [166 favorites]


Looks like the writers have found out that the show isn't being extended for another season and are just getting lazy, cramming all the ideas they thought up into the last few episodes with scant regard for plausibility.
posted by acb at 9:59 AM on May 12, 2017 [134 favorites]






Thanks for the new thread! And thank you all for the sanity in a totally disorienting timeline. I'm a bit sick today and home from work, and lying in bed reading about this insane shitshow is a good activity for my current state.
posted by aka burlap at 10:00 AM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


There was rumor this was going to happen, but it actually has now, and it's going to destroy a lot of lives. NYT: Sessions Orders Prosecutors to Be as Tough as Possible
Attorney General Jeff Sessions ordered federal prosecutors late Thursday to pursue the toughest possible charges and sentences against crime suspects, reversing Obama administration efforts to ease penalties for some nonviolent drug violations.

The drastic shift in criminal justice policy, foreshadowed during recent weeks, is Mr. Sessions’s first major stamp on the Justice Department, and it highlights several of his top targets: drug dealing, gun crime and gang violence. The Justice Department released the new directives on Friday.

In an eight-paragraph memo to the nation’s prosecutors, Mr. Sessions returned to the guidance of President George W. Bush’s administration by calling for more uniform punishments — including mandatory minimum sentences — and directing prosecutors to pursue the strictest possible charges. Mr. Sessions’s policy, however, is broader than that of the Bush administration, and will be more reliant on the judgments of United States attorneys and assistant attorneys general.
posted by zachlipton at 10:01 AM on May 12, 2017 [28 favorites]


♫♪ "1349 days to gooooo, I wanna be sedated..." ♫♪
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 10:01 AM on May 12, 2017 [70 favorites]


for the sake of my cardiovascular system, i hope this is the last trump thread, one way or another.

Not a chance in hell. If nothing changes, we continue. If something actually happens to 45, these threads are going to be fast and furious for a while. You'd be better off with a beta blocker and a walk.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:01 AM on May 12, 2017 [39 favorites]


Meanwhile on FOX, it's all But Her Emails, 24/7.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:02 AM on May 12, 2017 [13 favorites]


Fuck Twitter in all of this. Just fuck all of them from the CEO on down. What will it finally take to get Trump's account removed for harassment and intimidation?

Salon has it right, Twitter doesn't give a shit about any of this.
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:03 AM on May 12, 2017 [27 favorites]


for the sake of my cardiovascular system, i hope this is the last trump thread, one way or another.

*Ron Howard voice*
It wasn't.

posted by saturday_morning at 10:03 AM on May 12, 2017 [150 favorites]


the Head Of The Census Bureau Just Quit

the Zoolanderesque predilection of the nation's media managers are wrong:
Here’s a thought: It’s not our reporters, but our media managers and executives, who spend their waking lives confined within an impermeable ideological bubble. To these shrinking violets, there’s always—and indeed only—room to program right-leaning opinion, pseudo-reportage, and talking points. This would be why it would never occur to anyone sharing James Bennet’s class and intellectual pedigree that the present mood of the country amply justifies the hiring of an unapologetic socialist op-ed columnist, as opposed to a box-checking conservative who’d seem edgy because he’s not all that fond of Donald Trump
Trump’s Commission on ‘Election Integrity’ Will Lead to Massive Voter Suppression

Greg Palast, Twitter: 5. States with highest Black vote drop (MI, WI, OH, NC) had biggest vote list purges and new ID laws. It’s not "turn-out," it’s Jim Crow.

posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:04 AM on May 12, 2017 [124 favorites]


His personal loyalty? Who does Trump think he is, The Godfather?
posted by jonmc at 10:04 AM on May 12, 2017 [22 favorites]


Meanwhile on FOX, it's all But Her Emails, 24/7.

Well, when your chief legal analyst is Rudy Giuliani...
posted by AndrewInDC at 10:04 AM on May 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


This column by David Weigel is very, very good and you should read it: The ‘Merrick Garland for FBI’ scheme shows why liberals lose
We live in a golden age of political stupidity, but I'm not being hyperbolic when I say this: The idea of pulling Judge Merrick Garland off the D.C. Circuit federal appeals court and into the FBI is one of the silliest ideas I've seen anyone in Washington fall for. It's like Wile E. Coyote putting down a nest made of dynamite and writing “NOT A TRAP” on a whiteboard next to it. It's also an incredibly telling chapter in the book that's been written since the Republican National Convention — the story of how Republicans who are uncomfortable with the Trump presidency gritting their teeth as they use it to lock in control of the courts.
Dahlia Lithwick's description is so excellent:
Garland probably won’t want to give up his lifetime tenure as the chief judge of the second-most important court in the land, and surely the most significant bulwark against Trump administration overreach, in exchange for a 12-minute gig on The Apprentice before he uses the wrong color highlighter and gets fired by a crazy person. But props to Lee for upping his game just in time for sweeps week. Your move, Sasse. Personally, I think Jared Kushner would make the best FBI director of all.
posted by zachlipton at 10:05 AM on May 12, 2017 [77 favorites]


Trump's attempt to speedrun the Nixon presidency reminds me of:

"Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce."

- Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Napoleon (1852)
posted by dhens at 10:05 AM on May 12, 2017 [63 favorites]


Who does Trump think he is, The Godfather?

Yes, I actually think so.
posted by Miko at 10:06 AM on May 12, 2017 [22 favorites]


His personal loyalty? Who does Trump think he is, The Godfather?

He thinks he's Vito, maybe Michael. He doesn't realize that he's Fredo, and that he's working for Sonny.
posted by Etrigan at 10:08 AM on May 12, 2017 [43 favorites]


You know who else demanded a personal loyalty oath?
posted by dhens at 10:08 AM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Where's the Tattaglia family when we need them?
posted by jonmc at 10:08 AM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


@KenDilanianNBC: A source close to Comey told me this morning: “He hopes there are tapes. That would be perfect.”
posted by zachlipton at 10:08 AM on May 12, 2017 [111 favorites]


Sessions Orders Prosecutors to Be as Tough as Possible

If you get called for federal jury duty -- do everything you can (legally) to get picked.

Time for some jury nullification.

(with the caveat that most cases don't make it to jury trial)
posted by melissasaurus at 10:08 AM on May 12, 2017 [28 favorites]


Also, here are a few talking points for your Senators for next steps to take on the investigation into Comey's firing:

* Comey must testify in open hearings regarding the loyalty dinner and the state of the investigation into the Trump Campaign's alleged collusion with Russia

* For the president to ask the FBI director for a pledge of personal loyal is a matter of grave misconduct and antithetical to our democratic system of government

* Extremely important for Rod Rosenstein to testify as to his role in the firing of Comey and his role in drafting the memo

* Jefferson B. Sessions III must also testify as to his role in firing Comey, given that he has recused himself from all investigations and matters related to possible campaign collusion with Russia

* This week's actions are reminiscent of Nixon's obstruction of justice and his firing of Archibald Cox--the actions must be fully investigated

Let's keep hitting the phones. This country is ours, not his.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:10 AM on May 12, 2017 [133 favorites]


I wish there were mandatory minimums for perjuring yourself to the senate.
posted by H. Roark at 10:11 AM on May 12, 2017 [69 favorites]


I learned about Nixon when I was like 5. My very first question, and one my dad couldn't really answer was "But why did he make tapes?"

5 year old me is a better godfather than Donald.
posted by Glibpaxman at 10:11 AM on May 12, 2017 [44 favorites]


You know who else demanded a personal loyalty oath?

Satan?
posted by Artw at 10:11 AM on May 12, 2017 [17 favorites]


If you get called for federal jury duty -- do everything you can (legally) to get picked.

Unfortunately, having the ACLU on my resume will probably guarantee I will never serve on such a jury 😬
posted by Room 641-A at 10:12 AM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Satan?

I hope that was in a proper Church Lady voice...
posted by Melismata at 10:13 AM on May 12, 2017 [32 favorites]


I feel conflicted about the fact this is likely going to be the last ever Spiceytime. If it ever gets started.
posted by Gaz Errant at 10:14 AM on May 12, 2017


@KenDilanianNBC: A source close to Comey told me this morning: “He hopes there are tapes. That would be perfect.”

One presumes that the "close source" is the burner phone in Comey's hand.
posted by Freon at 10:16 AM on May 12, 2017 [62 favorites]


Would 100% take Black Philip over this guy. You get butter and stuff.
posted by Artw at 10:16 AM on May 12, 2017 [31 favorites]


Justin Amash (R - MI) is now co-sponsoring a bill with Eric Swalwell (D - CA) (my secret crush, after that House Intelligence Comittee hearing) called the Protecting Our Democracy Act, to create an independent commission to investigate Russian election interference.

The bill has 199 co-sponsors, including one other republican -- Walter Jones (R - NC).

I don't know about you guys, but I'm gonna call my personal Republican representative and ask him why he is NOT a co-sponsor.

I might also write a letter to the editor of my local paper asking the same question.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:18 AM on May 12, 2017 [141 favorites]


I don't think anyone has been more (in)famous for being so damn ignorant of everything. Ever.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:18 AM on May 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


A source close to Comey told me this morning: “He hopes there are tapes. That would be perfect.”

Any journalists here who can confirm "A source close to X" == "X"?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:19 AM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


We should probably just ask Putin for the Trump/Comey tapes
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:19 AM on May 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


@KenDilanianNBC: A source close to Comey told me this morning: “He hopes there are tapes. That would be perfect.”

How much thinner a curtain can they hang in front of "Jim told me..."? Maybe "A source close to Comey, whose name is definitely not John Miller, told me...".
posted by Etrigan at 10:19 AM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


So been paying attention to Indonesia lately and Trump's dealings. And, y'know, you think you're on top of stuff, the situation is simmering 'sharp end of what we should be watching'
(sure there's are a few morans "'totally OK' with Comey firing") but it's not like this madness will cause Great Cthulhu to rise.

So yeah, this morning in the Jakarta globe - huge rotting sea creature washed ashore horrifyingly turning the water red.

Seriously, for like 1/10th of a second I genuinely thought ...

...I mean things have gotten that weird.

So naturally, I turned to the great salve of reason that is Stephen Fry who explains the Dunning-Kruger effect here:

“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance. It is the illusion of knowledge.”

posted by Smedleyman at 10:22 AM on May 12, 2017 [38 favorites]


A sock with googly eyes, close to James Comey, told me ...
posted by Kabanos at 10:22 AM on May 12, 2017 [62 favorites]


My very first question, and one my dad couldn't really answer was "But why did he make tapes?"

One of the best scenes in TV history imho
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:23 AM on May 12, 2017 [30 favorites]


What will it finally take to get Trump's account removed for harassment and intimidation?

Beware what you wish for. His twitter account is literally the greatest own-goal scorer of all time. How much easier would the rest of the White House find it without him broadcasting every twitch in real time?
posted by Rumple at 10:23 AM on May 12, 2017 [80 favorites]




Spicer just started with the same joke Sanders started with two days in a row: "wow, got a full house today." He's talking really fast too.
posted by zachlipton at 10:25 AM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


His twitter account is literally the greatest own-goal scorer of all time.

Every time he has to take a dump, he posts something self-incriminating.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:25 AM on May 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


His personal loyalty? Who does Trump think he is, The Godfather?

This comparison occurred to CNN, too. Firing like scene from 'The Godfather' "Look, it makes sense that that’s the way you do business in New York. It does not make sense that that’s the way you do business when you are the President of the United States and your are talking to the FBI director. {...} I mean, it almost feels like a scene out of 'The Godfather,' but it’s not. It’s real, and it’s very… it’s alarming."

Since Trump has had ties to the mob (through his mentor, Roy Cohn) that go back to the 80s, e.g. New York bosses Anthony “Fat Tony” Salerno and Paul Castellano, Philly mob agent Kenneth Shapiro, and drug trafficker Joseph Weichselbaum, why should this be a surprise?
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:26 AM on May 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


Watching Spicey and McMaster talking about Trump's trip next week like none of this insanity is happening is surreal.
posted by Gaz Errant at 10:26 AM on May 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


I want Trump to get what's coming to him, but one legal technicality is worth considering: Because he has the authority to fire the Director of the FBI, it's not technically Obstruction of Justice to do so, even if his *intent* was to bury the investigation. He has to physically impede the investigation itself, by for example destroying records, to qualify. This is still in the petulant tirade territory until more evidence surfaces.
posted by mystyk at 10:27 AM on May 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


I thought the daily press briefing was a free offering from C-SPAN. All I get is "Authentication in Progress." Annoying.
posted by xyzzy at 10:28 AM on May 12, 2017




I want Trump to get what's coming to him, but one legal technicality is worth considering: Because he has the authority to fire the Director of the FBI, it's not technically Obstruction of Justice to do so, even if his *intent* was to bury the investigation. He has to physically impede the investigation itself, by for example destroying records, to qualify. This is still in the petulant tirade territory until more evidence surfaces.

The legal technicality is that it's up to the Senate to decide what's obstruction of justice, not a judge.
posted by Talez at 10:29 AM on May 12, 2017 [11 favorites]


I can so easily imagine Trump's team releasing a heavily edited "tape" that makes Comey say whatever they want him to say - assuming the "tapes" are digital and not steam.

I can't imagine they'd do a very good job of it, but Fox News would use the simple existence of some sort of tape to run all sorts of exculpatory chyrons, and that would probably be enough for a significant part of their viewing audience.
posted by bibliowench at 10:29 AM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Here's the NewsHour feed. It's free.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 10:29 AM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


"Authentication in Progress."

It's all lies, so I expect that will take some time.
posted by Kabanos at 10:29 AM on May 12, 2017 [12 favorites]




Attorney General Jeff Sessions ordered federal prosecutors late Thursday to pursue the toughest possible charges and sentences against crime suspects

whelp, there's these charges for violating 18 USC 1001 that Donald J. Trump is liable for...
posted by mikelieman at 10:30 AM on May 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


McMaster speaks suspiciously like Matt Foley.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:30 AM on May 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


Because he has the authority to fire the Director of the FBI, it's not technically Obstruction of Justice to do so, even if his *intent* was to bury the investigation.

"Did you fire James Comey from his position as the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation with the intent to obstruct the investigation? I will remind you that you are under oath."
posted by Etrigan at 10:30 AM on May 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


Seriously, y'all mefites of the United States, I wish you the best of luck.

Your POTUS is in full Caudillo mode. If you manage to get rid of that, you still have the Handmaid's Tale scenario to deal with.
posted by runcifex at 10:32 AM on May 12, 2017 [17 favorites]


"Spicer" visits CNN
posted by bonehead at 10:32 AM on May 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


Who does Trump think he is, The Godfather?
Yes, I actually think so.


McMaster: "He will finish his trip in Sicily …"
posted by Kabanos at 10:32 AM on May 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


In what is arguably the most turbulent week of the fledgling Trump Administration ...

Feels like that's every week.
posted by octobersurprise at 10:34 AM on May 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


I think the president's understanding of how tape works must be something like his understanding of registered mail.
posted by rodlymight at 10:34 AM on May 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


McMaster is saying that there was a perception from Middle-Eastern nations that the US had disengaged from their region, and Trump has fixed that. This is the exact 180-degree opposite of what Trump said on the campaign.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:34 AM on May 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


McMaster is straight up refusing to answer any questions not about the trip. Just shut down a question regarding Comey and whether his firing has any national security implications.
posted by Gaz Errant at 10:34 AM on May 12, 2017


Nobody cares if he's met them before. Please remind us again why you're there? To talk about a trip that didn't exist before today? Heckuva job, General.
posted by Sphinx at 10:35 AM on May 12, 2017


seriously? McMaster saying 9/11 came from Afghanistan? Are all these guys knowingly lying? Is there an honest person anywhere in the white house?
posted by H. Roark at 10:36 AM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


I wish there were mandatory minimums for perjuring yourself to the senate.

This is literally probably the only thing that Jeff Sessions would exempt from his "strictest possible charges" policy. Because of Reasons.
posted by triggerfinger at 10:36 AM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


> I thought the daily press briefing was a free offering from C-SPAN. All I get is "Authentication in Progress."

Authoritarianism in Progress.
posted by guiseroom at 10:37 AM on May 12, 2017 [24 favorites]




To talk about a trip that didn't exist before today? Heckuva job, General.

We've known about his upcoming first overseas trip for a few days now at least.
posted by dis_integration at 10:38 AM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


McMaster saying 9/11 came from Afghanistan? Are all these guys knowingly lying?

It is pretty uncontroversial to state that the Taliban and al-Qaeda were pretty intertwined back then, and that bin Laden and his network had free run of Afghanistan.
posted by Etrigan at 10:40 AM on May 12, 2017 [19 favorites]


The WSJ describes the certified letter (I've yet to see confirmation it was actually sent certified mail) as "carefully worded":
But Democrats and some tax experts said the carefully worded letter did little to quell their concerns.

“A Russian would not lend directly to Trump or his businesses,” said Steve Rosenthal, a tax lawyer and senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center in Washington. “A Russian would, for example, fund a Cyprus corporation, which would lend to Trump or his businesses, possibly through other intermediary entities.”

Sen. Ron Wyden (D., Ore.) compared the letter to the hyperbolic statements last year of Mr. Trump’s doctor about the president’s health.
...
The exception cited by lawyers for “ordinary-course sales of goods and services” is a potentially significant one. Although the lawyers say such payments were immaterial, Donald Trump Jr. suggested in 2008 that Russians did make up a significant amount of the Trump businesses’ customers.

“In terms of high-end product influx into the U.S., Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets,” he said in an interview with a trade publication. “We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.”
posted by zachlipton at 10:40 AM on May 12, 2017 [4 favorites]




Some context from a different perspective.

Esquire: The Signs Were Always There - "If you're surprised that the system suddenly seems broken, you don't know the system".

Or - "James Comey's Firing Is a Reminder of America's Institutional Imbalance."
Granted, Trump's current job magnifies the outrageousness of his act. But upon hearing the news, I felt a familiar frustration. With this event, some may just be becoming acquainted with an American reality where the structures of law enforcement have broken down and they feel like there's no choice but to accept it. But this America has always been here, and in plain sight. All these surprised people needed to do was believe us when they were warned.

How did, all of a sudden, so many other Americans come to learn these truths, ones that black and brown people have been trying to tell them about for what seems like forever? What people in that majority failed to realize is how institutional imbalance, racial or otherwise, makes any societal structure ripe for abuse.

...

Chris Hayes, in his book A Colony in a Nation, lays out how we've created, through democratic means, two different Americas for law enforcement: one that polices the way that it should be done, with equal treatment under the law; and another, the "colony," that is policed as one might expect under military occupation. "We have voted to subdue our fellow citizens; we have rushed to the polls to elect people promising to bar others from enjoying the fruits of liberty," Hayes writes. "A majority of Americans have put a minority under lock and key."

The criminal justice system may be the most blunt, brutal example of this. As Hayes argued, there remain two Americas when it comes to jurisprudence. What many folks fail to realize is how easily they can end up in the "colony" alongside the rest of us, preparing for the day that that our nation's systemic disadvantages affects more than the minority. Sometimes, all it takes is becoming poor. Sometimes, it's about being an immigrant from the wrong country, or with the wrong religion. Sometimes, it's just because we're not all rich and powerful like Donald Trump, and we don't have the ability to impede justice solely to meet our personal needs.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:41 AM on May 12, 2017 [41 favorites]


Straight from Republican State Media Fox News:

In life and in politics there is a line between defending someone and enabling them. What is happening these days with Trump and his core supporters is getting way past defense.

[notably absent is any effort to blame the Republican party as being the key enabling party here]
posted by Tevin at 10:43 AM on May 12, 2017 [18 favorites]


Oops, my bad. Pretend I said this week.
posted by Sphinx at 10:43 AM on May 12, 2017


Spicer is finally telling us where's the beef
posted by Beardman at 10:44 AM on May 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


Hey, at least McMaster was honest about his job: "A lot of what we do on the National Security Council is try to keep up with the President."
posted by zachlipton at 10:46 AM on May 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


Further undermining Trump's credibility

Which seems impossible but I suspect evidence of further undermining Trump's non existant credibility is on a cosmic scale. His bullshit is so dense it could form a magnetar.
posted by juiceCake at 10:47 AM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


If Trump is losing the Fox News political editor, he is losing the Murdoch family, aka Republican Oxygen
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:47 AM on May 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


Presenting the Garden Spicer: Now you too can have the White House press secretary in -- or rather, "among" -- the bushes in your yard.
(Facebook link)
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:48 AM on May 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


Any chance the students at Liberty will give Trump the Devos reception tomorrow at their commencement?
posted by archimago at 10:48 AM on May 12, 2017


And make no mistake, we need Fox News to turn before the impeachment if we want to avoid total chaos. Just talking to people out there who aren't in the politics threads is surreal right now - there's such an information gap.
posted by corb at 10:49 AM on May 12, 2017 [57 favorites]


Cheers to the first questioner for saying "Moving on to the news of the week".
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:49 AM on May 12, 2017 [14 favorites]


Any chance the students at Liberty will give Trump the Devos reception tomorrow at their commencement?

No chance.

Somehow the adulterous, sex assaulting, money grubbing, false-witnessing, lying, idol obsessed, blasphemous and irreverent breaker-of-every-commandment is the darling of these evangelicals. The mind reels.
posted by dis_integration at 10:49 AM on May 12, 2017 [46 favorites]


Spicer looks like a kilogram of cinnamon gum just worked its way out
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:49 AM on May 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


"The tweet speaks for itself." We can carve that on the gravestone of the nation!
posted by Don Pepino at 10:50 AM on May 12, 2017 [17 favorites]


Spicer is flat out refusing to answer any questions about the "tapes" tweet. Won't say whether there are recording devices. "The tweet speaks for itself" and he has nothing more to say about it.
posted by zachlipton at 10:50 AM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


The lobby of my office building has two TVs -- one is always tuned to CNN with the sound on, and the other is tuned to Fox News with the sound off. Normally I try to avert my eyes as well as my ears from the Fox broadcast, but today when I walked in I saw that they were covering the Holt interview, with a chyron along the lines of "Trump: Russia was 'in my mind' when firing Comey"

Maybe that was an isolated island in a sea of denial, but that it made it to air at all is encouraging.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:50 AM on May 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


I have said from the drop that Ryan and McConnell will NEVER move against Trump until and unless he becomes a threat to their agenda.

"White House is careening between crisis after crisis. "We need our asset out there every day barnstorming for tax reform, health care," the senate aide said."

Are they finally starting to realize that they're not going to give tax cuts to the wealthy and take healthcare away from poor people while President Trump is still president?
posted by Tevin at 10:51 AM on May 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


Somehow the adulterous, sex assaulting, money grubbing, false-witnessing, lying, idol obsessed, blasphemous and irreverent breaker-of-every-commandment is the darling of these evangelicals. The mind reels.

It makes perfect sense once you accept their religion is whiteness.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:52 AM on May 12, 2017 [123 favorites]


Tweet w/apropos picture: Trump on Comey: "He's a showboat. He's a grandstander."
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:53 AM on May 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


Spicer is now doing his best "I work so hard to please you people and yet you don't love me" routine with regard to press briefings, says there is "a lot of dismay" because the press parses out details in their statements.
posted by zachlipton at 10:54 AM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


It makes perfect sense once you accept their religion is whiteness.

Reformed Caucasianism
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:55 AM on May 12, 2017 [13 favorites]


spicer seems to be trying as hard as he can to say nothing at all so that he can't be accused of contradicting the president later
posted by murphy slaw at 10:56 AM on May 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


I can't feel any pity for him, but nobody is going to do any better at the job of spinning Trumps bullshit because that shit cannot be spun. Hopefuly whatever the new creature is has as miserable an existence.
posted by Artw at 10:57 AM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


Again, I ask: why are these people doing this to themselves? They could move to Florida and work part time and make more in a month than I do in a year, and yet....
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:59 AM on May 12, 2017 [11 favorites]


Waitaminute. Did I read that Fox op ed correctly? Is Fox really thinking about turning against Trump? If that happens, expect his approval rating to drop to the single-digits by next week.
posted by KGMoney at 10:59 AM on May 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


Unlike Huckabee Sanders, Spicer isn't even acknowledging that what he said about the decision-making process to fire Comey was incorrect.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:59 AM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


drug dealing, gun crime and gang violence

ahem. brown people. fucker.

mortgage fraud, perjury, obstruction, white terror, sexual assault, wage theft, cop-murderers, CBP rape tables?
posted by j_curiouser at 10:59 AM on May 12, 2017 [23 favorites]


"at the pleasure of the president" -- there's that phrase again
posted by dhens at 10:59 AM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


The fact that the White House is repeatedly refusing to confirm or deny whether there is recording equipment in the Oval Office strongly suggests that the answer is "yes, and we don't want to admit it."

This is the point where people need to get hauled before Congress and subpoenas issued for tapes.
posted by zachlipton at 11:00 AM on May 12, 2017 [75 favorites]


I have said from the drop that Ryan and McConnell will NEVER move against Trump until and unless he becomes a threat to their agenda.
That's the source of my disbelief, tbh. It has become glaringly obvious that no agenda goals will be met with all of these distractions, so what is the point of having all the branches when none of them bear fruit? They got a SC nominee through after using the nuclear option and passed a health care bill that won't make it through the Senate in any form that the Freedom Caucus will accept. I mean, you can only live off of liberal tears for so long.
posted by xyzzy at 11:00 AM on May 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


Piss parties are held at the pleasure of the President and can be dissolved at any time that they lose his confidence
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:00 AM on May 12, 2017 [11 favorites]


I'm looking forward to the SNL skewering of Spicer this weekend, but what I really want to see them do is a sketch set in the Senate with people playing Democrats reading all the actual shit Trump has done thus far and suggesting impeachment juxtaposed with people playing Republicans offering increasingly more outlandish reasons why they won't.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 11:00 AM on May 12, 2017 [45 favorites]


"at the pleasure of the president" -- there's that phrase again

given that the president doesn't seem to experience pleasure unless he's thinking about choking a dog…
posted by murphy slaw at 11:02 AM on May 12, 2017 [17 favorites]


This is the point where people need to get hauled before Congress and subpoenas issued for tapes.

Only when there's a real Congress.
posted by Artw at 11:02 AM on May 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


I would be scared if these guys weren't so frickin' incompetent.

Out by August; September at latest.
posted by sutt at 11:03 AM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


They should have an SNL sketch where the writers are just sitting around doing nothing and partying, and/or worrying about getting laid off, because they don't need to do any actual writing.

Bring to mind a Capitol Steps show that I caught once, many years ago, where the cast was sobbing on stage because Dan Quayle's term was almost up and they'd gotten so much material out of him.
posted by Melismata at 11:04 AM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


given that the president doesn't seem to experience pleasure unless he's thinking about choking a dog…

Or humiliating people with food, to be fair.
posted by lydhre at 11:04 AM on May 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


Out by August; September at latest.

pls don't jinx it
posted by murphy slaw at 11:05 AM on May 12, 2017 [25 favorites]


Out by August; September at latest.

Reel in those expectations, I think you're about to lose them in the great pee-stream of Trump's America. I'm expecting nothing less than a second term.
posted by dis_integration at 11:05 AM on May 12, 2017 [36 favorites]


If there's a second you might as well throw in third.
posted by Artw at 11:07 AM on May 12, 2017 [36 favorites]




From David Weigel's Garland story:
The Examiner also quoted Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) as saying "it would also create a vacancy in the important D.C. circuit, so maybe I like it better the more I think about it."
Does Roy Blunt not do internal monologues? That a Republican Senator thinks this about the prospect is unsurprising; that he openly says, "Yeah, that's what I like about it," to the press instead of coming up wih some sort of "He's a good man" fooforaw is..., well, it's not exactly clever or subtle, is it?
posted by jackbishop at 11:08 AM on May 12, 2017 [19 favorites]


If there's a second you might as well throw in third.

He won't keep his faculties anywhere near that long.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:08 AM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


Reel in those expectations, I think you're about to lose them in the great pee-stream of Trump's America. I'm expecting nothing less than a second term.


Unless democrats can get their heads out of their asses policy-wise, write single-payer into the platform, and shut their more conciliatory/bought-off members the hell up, you're probably right.

If they run Zuckerberg I'm going to lose my fucking shit.
posted by turntraitor at 11:09 AM on May 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


President Apprentice Re-runs 2024
posted by Beardman at 11:09 AM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


All of this is just adding more to the "Trump is a horrible, corrupt, and incompetent person/president" pile. That pile was already overwhelming big this time last year. None of this will cause any Trump voter or Republican politician to truly turn their back on him. They already know who he is.
posted by that's how you get ants at 11:09 AM on May 12, 2017 [13 favorites]


pls don't jinx it

Reel in those expectations, I think you're about to lose them in the great pee-stream of Trump's America. I'm expecting nothing less than a second term.

There's so much going down (collusion, obstruction, money laundering, and on and on), I believe a 2nd term will only happen if the rule of law is done away with.

My bet is actually that he resigns before he's impeached.
posted by sutt at 11:10 AM on May 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


It makes perfect sense once you accept their religion is whiteness.

I read a book called "The End of White Christian America". It basically showed the winnowing down of White Christian America, and it continuously expanding who could be let in the tent to make up for it, going from blue blood New Englanders to WASPs (as long as it was mainline Protestantism) to letting in Evangelicals to finally letting in (gulp) Catholics. The author, a progressive, thought that the next step would be to remove the white part of white Christian America. Clearly the actual solution was to remove the Christian part.

It doesn't help that the main signifier for Christian Trump supporters is that they don't really go to church.
posted by zabuni at 11:11 AM on May 12, 2017 [26 favorites]


It has become glaringly obvious that no agenda goals will be met with all of these distractions,

Sessions is ramping up the war on people of color.
The Muslim Ban may have been struck down, but refugee visa processing is virtually frozen and has been for months.
The head of the census bureau resigned. The 2020 census is clearly on track to be a Republican-favoring shitshow.
Numerous federal agencies despised by the right wing are now headed by people who also despise them.

They aren't getting their whole agenda through, no. But they're still doing the sort of harm they could only dream of a year ago.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:12 AM on May 12, 2017 [37 favorites]


This is what "running it like a business" looks like.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:13 AM on May 12, 2017 [27 favorites]


I believe a 2nd term will only happen if the rule of law is done away with.

STOP
JINXING
IT
posted by murphy slaw at 11:13 AM on May 12, 2017 [18 favorites]


I believe a 2nd term will only happen if the rule of law is done away with.

We are in the middle of a fascist coup, yes.
posted by Artw at 11:13 AM on May 12, 2017 [31 favorites]


He won't keep his faculties anywhere near that long

I don't see how this would make him less appealing to those who are conspiring against democracy and a functional state by working to keep him in power.
posted by howfar at 11:13 AM on May 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


I believe a 2nd term will only happen if the rule of law is done away with.

So 50/50 then.
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:15 AM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


sutt: Out by August; September at latest.

dis_intigration: Reel in those expectations, I think you're about to lose them in the great pee-stream of Trump's America. I'm expecting nothing less than a second term.

Artw: If there's a second you might as well throw in third.


This whole shitshow only makes any sense if Republicans simply don't plan on allowing free and fair elections ever again.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:15 AM on May 12, 2017 [30 favorites]


I'm at least half-convinced that the Garland talk is psyops from both sides. Republicans are openly stating the underhanded fuckery of it in the hopes that it gets on Fox and Friends so 45* hears it, and Dems are promoting it to poison the well so Twitler will impulsively reject it. If he starts leaning that way I expect he'll get a singing telegram from Obama and Hillary telling him what a great idea it is.
posted by Freon at 11:15 AM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


This presumes (without evidence) that there exists a few republican senators who actually value constitution and country over party. Let's say your such a creature. Looking to the future, you can see two possible outcomes from current situation:
  1. Trump stays in power; the form of government changes from democratic republic to dictatorship
  2. Trump (very messily) loses power
Both outcomes have a very high chance of being bad for you and your career.

In (1), you serve as a vassal, without free will, and with a fair likelihood you can be thrown out a window if you make waves. If you care about things like "legacy", history will not be kind. And the reality is that your party and its members are not needed or even wanted by the dictator once they have fully seized power. You do NOT get to set policy, or check their actions. That is not what a dictatorship is.

In (2), there is a fair chance you will simply be voted out of office and a fair chance that you may be found to have comitted serious crimes (actively or complicitly) with their penalties.

There is a path to you making it through this and even becoming a "respected senior statesman" and "American hero" and the gateways those open up to you and your career.

The path is something like this:

You find a couple of like-minded colleagues, and hatch a plan to completely gut the current toddler party that is the GOP and replace it with a new version which essentially pushes the reset button. It's still conservative, but it doesn't court religious or racist whack-a-doodles and recognizes that government actually has a function, compromise is necessary, etc. You give up come constituents, but gain others--after all, large numbers of your current party's hate targets are actually conservative in nature and would vote for politicians of such a party. That things like gerrymandering and vote suppression are short-term "solutions" to a problem which doesn't actually exist if you get over the racism and the sexism. This is a conservative country, but conservative doesn't have to mean "heartless". Blah blah.

The idea here is you're doing a re-branding, while at the same time surgically removing the crazy which has brought the GOP to this crisis point. You want your new party to take the place of the Republican party in our two-party system. If you're smart, you'll put rules into place which keep the party centrist on an on-going basis. But you have a plan, and the plan includes things like "representing all constituents" and "working with opponents to craft legislation", etc.

Call it something like the "Independence Party". Your goal is the same as a big company which undergoes a re-branding. You want the public to understand that you're in-fact the republicans, but the good ones, and because of forces outside your control (Russian compromises, corruption, etc.) you're making a fresh start of it, but if you're a citizen and a Republican, what you really are is an Independent.

You also formulate a path to joining your party for not-too-dirty colleagues. But you want a line where you say no. This is important, because someone is getting frog-marched, and it cannot be anyone in your party. The Ryans, Hasterts, McConnels, etc. are too dirty. Probably half of your colleagues are in this boat.

You then go to the Koch brothers and other large money dispensers and say "hey, you seem unhappy with the crazy, what do you think about this". I'm willing to bet that they'd be interested in your plan. You can use Trump as evidence that their "winner take all" and support of loons ultimately does NOT get them what they want, but support of your initiative will get them a lot of what they want.

You go to beloved, non-crazy conservative celebs (people like "The Rock", not Clint Eastwood) and get them on-board. Now you have popular and friendly faces who will say nice things about what you're up to. A really smart strategy here would be to have them work on getting "tough guy" toxic masculinity marked in the public eye as a sign of serious weakness, as it ultimately is a dead-man's switch that ensures the crazy wins.

That's a long, slow, battle but one which would eviscerate the crazies, eventually.

You go to esteemed retired/former republican officials and get them on-board. Point out to them this is a path to redeem their legacy and sever their ties with the current crop of crazies. They are primed to support you and say things like "I may have had an (R) after my name, but that was before the party was sold to the Russians and the American public bamboozled. (I) is what I was then, in spirit, and (I) is what I am now. Bless these patriots for doing the right thing." Etc., etc.

You abandon Fox News, but court serious conservative publications like the WSJ. Your goal in all of these moves is to recognize that ultimately anything that is controlled by a single or few super-rich white guys is going to work until it fails spectacularly, taking everything associated with it.

Your overall goal with these moves is to be seen as "serious" and "adult" but still "conservative".

Some of those things will take time, but they can, because in the short-term you're going to have serious political power and once the writing is on the wall, you'll have the time.

You then go visit key Democratic colleagues and work out a deal: You're rebooting the republican party; it will govern like actual adults. To be clear, you're still conservative and will fight for your (sensible) ideals. But you need to clean house, and to do that, we will join you in getting an independent investigation established--and will absolutely work with you to end this farce. Bring olive branches, like the impeachment of Gorsuch in exchange for Garland (who is actually someone whose values you espouse in any case). Agree that legislation must be put into place to safeguard the country from this happening again.

You then withdraw from the republican party and become "Independents".

Your main talking point is this: You're dedicated conservatives, not criminals, and the republican party is hopelessly compromised by Russia and dirty money, to the point where it is no longer legitimate. That you know that your average Joe who looks in the mirror and sees a Republican staring back isn't looking at the criminal, but an Independent. Join us! We're the party your family has always been part of, etc., etc.

Conservatives have always been "tough on crime", and these are the highest crimes of all.

They key is this: (D)s + (I)s now outnumber (R)s in the senate. That is the fulcrum for this entire power play.

You work quickly to make procedural rule changes that short-circuit what little remaining power Republican senators have. Open a door for the less-dirty Republicans to join you, in exchange for testimony, but you make sure that line stops somewhere well short of anything that a layperson would see as actively criminal. The key words are traitorous.

And you start investigating. Every republican is going to be dirty, some inadvertently via PAC money; some will actually be traitors. You offer the former a path to your party, with wrist-slaps or due penance. You pillory the latter. Paint a picture of crimes against the US that are so egregious that even the coal-rollers get on board. Once there are big crimes and your average joe has a way to philosophically absolve themselves from them (hello (I) ), they'll love the investigation and its juicy revelations and harsh penalties, enthusiastically support it, even. Justice is (mostly) served.

The process needs to be fair, open...but fast and the penalties harsh. One or two big-names going down and you'll have lots of interest from current (R)s.

Your goal is to quickly get the house into a position where you can get actual impeachments rolling. Now the fireworks really start. The writing will be on the wall, and it will all come apart bigly.

You've done your homework and have (vetted) candidates of your new party ready to stand in special elections in affected districts, states, etc. You may not win, but the (R) is almost certainly not going to, and over time the natural conservative nature of the US and your new embrace of conservative leanings in former hated groups will see that traditionally red areas vote (I).

And the best part is you're now cemented in history as one of the Great Americans. You went from venal servitude and uncomfortable party-toady to hero.

(That's my personal holodeck.)
posted by maxwelton at 11:16 AM on May 12, 2017 [88 favorites]


how do you perform psyops on someone without object persistence
posted by murphy slaw at 11:16 AM on May 12, 2017 [79 favorites]


Roy Blunt is legit awful.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:17 AM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


There are two big flat screen tvs in the cafeteria at my work, always on mute. One is showing Spicey and the other is showing some History Channel show about UFOs, complete with cheesy special effects and reenactments. The latter is far more believable.
posted by skycrashesdown at 11:19 AM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


Jefferson Fucking Beauregard Fucking Sessions the Fucking Third. May he find his way into a jail cell and never leave it.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:20 AM on May 12, 2017 [39 favorites]


It's tempting to think the GOP is banking on suspension of elections

They don't need to suspend elections if they get voter ID laws and increase incarceration/felony conviction rates.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:20 AM on May 12, 2017 [24 favorites]


The story changed again. Yesterday, Trump told Lester Holt he was going to fire Comey regardless of the recommendation. Now, Spicer said the decision was based "in part" on Rosenstein's recommendation.

But really, I'm just sitting in shock here that the White House can't even deny an Oval Office taping system.
posted by zachlipton at 11:21 AM on May 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


It's tempting to think the GOP is banking on suspension of elections (as that's the only logical reason they would risk their seats supporting this fuckknuckle) but I think collectively they're just a guy absently staring at his phone playing a free-to-play multiplayer game while walking in traffic.

Somewhere in the middle or just both.
posted by Artw at 11:22 AM on May 12, 2017


> This is what "running it like a business" looks like.

And pretty soon we're going to see a re-enactment of this Sopranos scene, with DJT as David Scatino and Putin as Tony Soprano.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:22 AM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


I think THEY might make it to a second, third, infinity term; I do not think HE is going to last long enough. He's increasingly delusional, increasingly baroque. Either nobody's capable of steering him, or his minders are deliberately giving him his head and sending him out to interviews because, somehow: Trumpshow, Trumpshow, ???, profit! I think it's the latter. It is not possible that they read those interviews with Time and The Economist and thought, "Yup, POTUS is just all right with me!" They read 'em, and then they rubbed their oily hands together and said, "Beautiful job, Sir, now that nice Lester Holt is waiting for you with a nice lunch. Please go have a chat with him!" They seem to want to make sure that he's on camera as he loses language. They want to capture the moment he moves from commenting on the nicely dressed people in the rose garden to throwing his feces at the nicely dressed people in the rose garden.
posted by Don Pepino at 11:22 AM on May 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


But really, I'm just sitting in shock here that the White House can't even deny an Oval Office taping system.

All the stuff about Obama "tapping" him? Occam's razor: Trump's mirror, again.
posted by Dashy at 11:24 AM on May 12, 2017 [28 favorites]


So the WH is bugged, right?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:24 AM on May 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


I don't see how this would make him less appealing to those who are conspiring against democracy and a functional state by working to keep him in power.

Well, I can't think of any fascist regime that trotted out a very old man with advanced Alzheimer's, but

It's tempting to think the GOP is banking on suspension of elections (as that's the only logical reason they would risk their seats supporting this fuckknuckle) but I think collectively they're just a guy absently staring at his phone playing a free-to-play multiplayer game while walking in traffic.

This is where I'm at too. Suspension of elections would be a very very very tough row to hoe, what with elections being organized by the states. They can gerrymander and fuck around with elections in swing states and red states, which is an urgent problem and should be our primary focus. I get the urge for pessimism (and my personal need to look for silver linings) but none of the most dire predictions are fait accompli; it's more likely that the banality of evil in terms of voter supression will continue until it's stopped.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:24 AM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Blunt. Does what is says on the tin.
posted by AwkwardPause at 11:24 AM on May 12, 2017


trump has no one around him who will tell him no. that is why he gave those interviews - he wanted to, and no one had the gonads to stop him. there are no "minders" who have enough influence to mind him.
posted by murphy slaw at 11:25 AM on May 12, 2017 [4 favorites]




We zoomed past "Nixon" a long time ago.
posted by Artw at 11:27 AM on May 12, 2017 [19 favorites]


So the WH is bugged, right?

At least since wednesday when the russian camera team was in the oval office.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 11:27 AM on May 12, 2017 [97 favorites]


But really, I'm just sitting in shock here that the White House can't even deny an Oval Office taping system.

Was tapes in quotes because knowing Trump, he probably means TiVo, just like when he said "tapping phones" he actually meant microwave ovens.
posted by JackFlash at 11:28 AM on May 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


the sessions-get-brown-people-felonies plus the census thing plus the ICE/CBP nightmare plus the voter-fraud-disenfranchisement-smokescreen is starting to smell like a coordinated ratfucking of emerging demographics.

has anyone seen rove and cheney at the same table lately? channeling delay?
posted by j_curiouser at 11:29 AM on May 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


They wanted to put in a digital recording system, but the President insisted on steam-powered phonograph
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:30 AM on May 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


So the WH is bugged, right?

A not at all relevant story about how much Trump likes to record things.

Given Trump's past history of recording his own and other people's convos, and Spicer's hilarious refusal to comment, I have no doubt now that the residence and the oval have recording devices in them.
posted by dis_integration at 11:30 AM on May 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


Love the current headline on Slate: "Did Trump Just Falsely Accuse Himself of Wiretapping Himself?" That kind of headspinning wording is exactly how I'm feeling these days.
posted by Melismata at 11:31 AM on May 12, 2017 [29 favorites]


We know Trump has impersonated his own spokesperson. Maybe he also does impressions of Senator Grassley and James Comey?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:31 AM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


It's so unbelievable that I keep wanting to turn this into a game of 12-dimensional-chess: maybe they're just refusing to confirm or deny so everyone wastes their time taking about a taping system and then they can just laugh at us and call it "fake news" later?

But I know that's not it. That's just my brain trying to come up with some kind of possible justification for this absurdity. That's just my brain trying to pretend this isn't happening.
posted by zachlipton at 11:31 AM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


That feeling when you're reading this thread and the thread for The Americans in FanFare and keep losing track of which one you're currently looking at.
posted by mikepop at 11:32 AM on May 12, 2017 [34 favorites]


You abandon Fox News, but court serious conservative publications like the WSJ.

How long would their editorial lines remain out of sync? They're both News Corp., just targeted at different market segments.
posted by acb at 11:32 AM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


At least since wednesday when the russian camera team was in the oval office.

I still can't believe they spirited Sergei "Spymaster" Kislyak and a "Russian camera team" into the Oval Office on Wednesday.
posted by diogenes at 11:32 AM on May 12, 2017 [25 favorites]


I was musing today that there are so many good TV shows that I can't keep up. I stumbled over I Love Dick on Amazon because of a migraine, had never heard of it before, and it's actually really good.

I mean, hats off to good TV programming, but for the most part people are going to get what they want: sugar, fat, salt, free porn, truly well done entertainment that provides hours of diversion.

I guess what I'm saying is that is going to be a while before the proletariat revolts. I don't know I'm ready to die on the barricades yet, and I don't have kids (although I'm exploring the possibility of fleeing to Canada).

Something has to happen that makes what Fox News is selling completely revolting to people. I would say like police killing children, but unfortunately we've seen kindergartners massacred and we elected Trump. Who pledged to make the child-killing just as viable as it was before, more so, bigly.

I am hoping for Trump's natural demise, a GOP in disarray, something happening that doesn't involve dead people (aside from Trump).

I say this as somebody about to get on the phone with their rep's office: the system is broken in a number of ways. I fear, do not advocate for, but fear, that short of a historically unprecedented event, it will not be set straight.

But Godspeed to the people who are trying to keep us from that dark place.
posted by angrycat at 11:32 AM on May 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


Polling out on our local GOP representative shows her at 35-56 approve-disapprove. Trump is a boat anchor on these people.
posted by azpenguin at 11:32 AM on May 12, 2017 [13 favorites]


agenda goals will be met with all of these distractions, so what is the point of having all the branches when none of them bear fruit?

I was at a social gathering with some more connected Republicans and was pitching this very question. They said that at the current moment Justice Kennedy is still determined to retire this summer, and Trump is still committed through back-room deals to choosing off the Heritage Foundation list.

If true and this comes to pass, post summer we could see people taking new stock of whether it benefits or hurts the party to oust him. Which I know, is weak beer, but maybe better than nothing.
posted by corb at 11:34 AM on May 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


I think most of the Republican Establishment is still in "wait and see but slowly losing patience" mode toward Trump. Their voter suppression and other electoral ratfucking efforts have been overwhelmingly successful so far, even while Obama was in the White House (#1 on my personal list of Obama Failures), even to getting a Republican elected that they really don't like, but one big factor is whether Donald insists on "Loyalty Oaths" from every one of them who wants their own little piece of the Fascist Power Structure. But right now they're watching the special elections closely: if the Democrat in Georgia wins, many panic buttons will be pushed, since that would show an electoral wave beyond their control, but that's not for another month.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:34 AM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


I would be scared if these guys weren't so frickin' incompetent.

Out by August; September at latest.


Because there's nothing problematic about a Pence administration. Even if we somehow dumped both of them wouldn't we then have a Ryan administration? I think the odds of a do over and the installation of President Clinton are unlikely at best.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 11:35 AM on May 12, 2017


Polling out on our local GOP representative shows her at 35-56 approve-disapprove. Trump is a boat anchor on these people.

They win because of voter suppression and gerrymandering, but there's only so much of an edge they can give themselves that way. If they manage to fuck things up so much that the margin of fuckery is overcome then we might not all die.
posted by Artw at 11:35 AM on May 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


j_curiouser: "the sessions-get-brown-people-felonies plus the census thing plus the ICE/CBP nightmare is starting to smell like a coordinated ratfucking of emerging demographics."

Also, don't forget about the Kris Kobach voter "fraud" commission.

I mean, for all the worry about suspending or cancelling elections, I personally doubt that it'd come to that for the simple reason that it's just not the American way. The American way is poll taxes, literacy tests, etc... Namely, controlling the pool of voters via a combination of techniques ranging from full-on disenfranchisement to simple discouragement.
posted by mhum at 11:35 AM on May 12, 2017 [15 favorites]


Fox News: Trump Not As Bad As Civil War

Oh, come on. I thought the movie was pretty good; I mean, it wasn't as good as Winter Soldier and the villain's plot did rely on an awful lot of coincidences to work if you stop to think about it, but I also thought it had some good moments for Captain America and did a pretty good job of working in the rest of the Avengers generally. The Trump administration has no real compelling characters to root for so far, and the action set pieces are largely confined to the press room, so...meh.
posted by nubs at 11:37 AM on May 12, 2017 [42 favorites]


So Trump is Chuck McGill from Better Call Saul? Excepting the eloquence and ability to roast a sea bass, or at least enjoy it without ketchup.

Art imitates life, again! The parallels are pretty obvious.
posted by Keith Talent at 11:37 AM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


So...absolute best case scenario, we win the House in 2018, before the top two are ousted?
posted by unknowncommand at 11:37 AM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


the margin of fuckery

On the Margins of Fuckery is a great title looking for a book.
posted by dis_integration at 11:38 AM on May 12, 2017 [13 favorites]


They said that at the current moment Justice Kennedy is still determined to retire this summer, and Trump is still committed through back-room deals to choosing off the Heritage Foundation list.

If Kennedy decides that now is really the best time to retire I might have to buy a plane ticket to DC just to slap him in the face.
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:38 AM on May 12, 2017 [36 favorites]


starting to smell like

You just caught that whiff now?
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:39 AM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


So...absolute best case scenario, we win the House in 2018, before the top two are ousted?

If we don't THEN we get to test the Trump better or worse than civil war hypothesis. Because I think America is willing to accept rigged elections to some degree, but not that degree.
posted by Artw at 11:40 AM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Because there's nothing problematic about a Pence administration.

As has been noted many times before, Pence is his own kind of dystopian horror show, but very few of us are afraid of him nuking the world in a fit of pique.
posted by anastasiav at 11:41 AM on May 12, 2017 [38 favorites]


Let's just take it one existential crises at a time.
posted by diogenes at 11:42 AM on May 12, 2017 [35 favorites]


So...absolute best case scenario, we win the House in 2018, before the top two are ousted?

I don't see why we can't hope to encourage Trump to resign before then. (And he can pardon whoever he wants, yadda yadda)

Remember The Palin
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:43 AM on May 12, 2017


Just to repost from the last thread, in case anyone has any leads: there is some big motocade frequently criss-crossing Arlington, VA today and yesterday and my colleagues and I are really curious who it might be. It might be multiple motocades (some of the vehicles keep changing out) or it might be one, but there are always 40+ police motorcycles and then a few airport-shuttle type buses, and they're important enough that the police keep stopping traffic on the freeway to let them by. They're definitely coming and going from the pentagon and possibly DCA. Any clue?
posted by R a c h e l at 11:43 AM on May 12, 2017 [15 favorites]


the margin of fuckery

On the Margins of Fuckery is a great title looking for a book.
posted by dis_integration


That or the name of a new Culture vessel, probably a GCU working with Special Circumstances
posted by the phlegmatic king at 11:43 AM on May 12, 2017 [30 favorites]


Even if we somehow dumped both of them wouldn't we then have a Ryan administration?

President Hatch by the time it's all unwound?
posted by sutt at 11:44 AM on May 12, 2017


Effectorise the son of a bitch.
posted by Artw at 11:44 AM on May 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


Out by August; September at latest.

We'll be home for Christmas. Honestly, I wouldn't even hazard a guess, myself. Wouldn't surprise me if he resigned next week. Wouldn't shock me if he served two terms.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:45 AM on May 12, 2017 [20 favorites]


And 45 wept, because there were no more scandals left to conceive...
posted by blue_beetle at 11:45 AM on May 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


You just caught that whiff now?
you must admit, there is quite a lot of other noisy bullshit. as each of these popped up, i'd register "that is shitty for the electorate." but now, with like, what, six different efforts focused on disenfranchisement...i may be dense but the coordination and common denominator kinda landed pretty hard today. sessions was the tipping point.

(and the press does really need to ask sessions, "what about mandatory minimums for felony perjury to congress?" as someone stated above.
posted by j_curiouser at 11:45 AM on May 12, 2017


NYDN: Roger Stone contradicts Trump, says he has spoken to the president ‘very recently’. Stone went on The View, and:
“Well, I am not going to contradict the president and I am not going to say when I’ve spoken to him but I will say this, I have spoken to him very recently,” Stone said.
This, of course, does contradict the President's tweet, "have not spoken to Roger in a long time."

there is some big motocade frequently criss-crossing Arlington, VA today and yesterday and my colleagues and I are really curious who it might be

If nobody here knows, it might be worth dropping an email to the Washington Post's Metro desk.
posted by zachlipton at 11:45 AM on May 12, 2017 [26 favorites]


So Trump is Chuck from Better Call Saul?

Bet his staff wishes he'd leave his phone in the mailbox outside the White House.
posted by Beardman at 11:49 AM on May 12, 2017 [20 favorites]


FOX News Comey replacements: White House confirms shortlist to head FBI
“We are moving quickly and expeditiously to pick an interim and a permanent replacement, and we’re doing our due diligence—we’re not going to cut any corners,” the source told Fox News. [...]According to the White House official, the candidates include:

Ray Kelly, the former and longest-serving New York City police commissioner
Mike Rogers, former House Intelligence Committee chairman and former FBI agent
Former Assistant Attorney General Alice Fisher
Rep. Trey Gowdy, R-S.C.
Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn, R-Texas
Paul Abbate, executive assistant director for the Criminal, Cyber, Response and Services Branch
Former New York prosecutor Mike Garcia
Mayor of Colorado Springs John Suthers
Former federal appellate court Judge Michael Luttig, now executive vice president of Boeing
Larry Thompson, former deputy attorney general under President George W. Bush
Acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:50 AM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Just to repost from the last thread, in case anyone has any leads: there is some big motocade frequently criss-crossing Arlington, VA today and yesterday and my colleagues and I are really curious who it might be. It might be multiple motocades (some of the vehicles keep changing out) or it might be one, but there are always 40+ police motorcycles and then a few airport-shuttle type buses, and they're important enough that the police keep stopping traffic on the freeway to let them by. They're definitely coming and going from the pentagon and possibly DCA. Any clue?

Hello, neighbor! I don't know either, but one of them was escorting a group of bicyclists in full race gear, which I just found confusing.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:51 AM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Out by August; September at latest.

There's an eclipse in August. If we play it right we can make them think god will destroy the sun unless Trump is impeached. Who are they going to believe? God or science?
posted by Talez at 11:51 AM on May 12, 2017 [27 favorites]


If only their was some way for Pence to combine Russian treachery with his spooky religious shit.

A top cleric of the Russian Orthodox Church and ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin met privately with Vice President Mike Pence Thursday morning

Theoretically about "combating terrorism in the Middle East" but I'm pretty sure burning all the gays was a subject of conversation.
posted by Artw at 11:51 AM on May 12, 2017 [55 favorites]


As has been noted many times before, Pence is his own kind of dystopian horror show, but very few of us are afraid of him nuking the world in a fit of pique.

You're absolutely right and I would love to see Trump impeached, it's just that we are so far from being out of the woods that the best case scenario includes a dystopian horrow show.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 11:51 AM on May 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


ROSEN: Some historical perspective is valuable here. During Watergate, the term "crisis" was thrown around as well, and there were people at that time who were old enough to remember when there were legless Civil War veterans still in the streets of Washington.

CARLSON: Good point.

ROSEN: And when those Civil War soldiers were young, there were still a dozen-odd Revolutionary War vets doddering around who could remember the days when the very existence of an independent American nation was in question.

CARLSON: Just goes to show you.

ROSEN: And that so-called "Revolutionary" so-called "War?" Just a donnybrook compared to the War of the Spanish Succession, which tore empires asunder and wrenched the very stars in their orbits. If things had gone differently, Tucker, you and I would be periwigged factotums in a Bourbon palace right now.

CARLSON: Well-observed.
posted by Iridic at 11:52 AM on May 12, 2017 [27 favorites]


Comey replacements: White House confirms shortlist to head FBI

Which is the most giganticly corrupt nazi? There's the one it will be.
posted by Artw at 11:52 AM on May 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


From the FPP: Further undermining Trump's credibility

There's a phrase that's going to get a heavy workout in coming months.
posted by Gelatin at 11:52 AM on May 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


We are moving quickly and expeditiously to pick an interim and a permanent replacement...

Rep. Trey Gowdy, R-S.C. (Youtube link)

posted by sutt at 11:53 AM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


*throws aside popcorn and switches to nachos*
posted by loquacious at 11:54 AM on May 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


Ray Kelly, the former and longest-serving New York City police commissioner

Haberman (with a hilarious autocorrect error of spying->spaying, and many ensuing yucks from the peanut gallery) says that Kelly is liked by Trump because of the NYPD's secret spying on mosques program, which Trump praised and spoke out when it ended.
posted by zachlipton at 11:55 AM on May 12, 2017


Coming in to an FBI as the handpicked choice of the guy they hate, oh man, I wouldn't want that job.
posted by emjaybee at 11:57 AM on May 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'm surprised to not see Sheriff Joe Arpaio on that list.
posted by acb at 11:57 AM on May 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


I live my life like there's no tomorrow
And all I've got, I had to steal
Least I don't need to beg or borrow
Yes I'm livin' at a pace that kills
Ooh, yeah
Run it like a business
posted by emelenjr at 11:57 AM on May 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


my weed dealer turned me onto Haribo, and my stress eating has never been the same
posted by angrycat at 11:58 AM on May 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


Coming in to an FBI as the handpicked choice of the guy they hate, oh man, I wouldn't want that job.

Is the FBI mandated in the Constitution in the same way as the Postal Service is? Because if not, is anything stopping the President from dissolving it, creating a new agency (named the NBI or FBS or whatever), differing from the old one in that its loyalty is to the President, and transferring all assets and personnel to the new agency?
posted by acb at 11:59 AM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


They win because of voter suppression and gerrymandering, but there's only so much of an edge they can give themselves that way.

My hope, perhaps unrealistic, is that Trump's awfulness with be enough to cause a shift to Democratic control in Congress and all but the reddest state legislatures. Then the Democrats enact voter protection reforms, mandate simple registration, and counteract gerrymandering. If they can do that in enough states, that should make it very hard for Republicans to regain power until they become rational enough to actually appeal to a majority of the populace.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 12:00 PM on May 12, 2017 [18 favorites]


I'm surprised to not see Sheriff Joe Arpaio on that list.

Trump can't spell it.
posted by Etrigan at 12:00 PM on May 12, 2017 [13 favorites]


my weed dealer turned me onto Haribo, and my stress eating has never been the same

If you get a bag of the sugar-free, it will change again, in an entirely different way*







*DO NOT DO THIS
posted by The Gaffer at 12:00 PM on May 12, 2017 [73 favorites]


FBI Director Roy Moore just has the right ring to it, no?
posted by delfin at 12:02 PM on May 12, 2017


Watermelon and sauerkraut are good things to pig out on without gaining many calories when the munchies won't go away.

Watermelon and sauerkraut is my least favorite Haribo variety.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:04 PM on May 12, 2017 [105 favorites]


Watermelon and sauerkraut are good things to pig out on

Are you ok?

posted by RolandOfEld at 12:04 PM on May 12, 2017 [59 favorites]


I'm not sure sauerkraut and current events are a good combination for my blood pressure.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:06 PM on May 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


Does sauerkraut Haribo actually exist? If it doesn't it should.
posted by Dr Dracator at 12:06 PM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


Rep. Trey Gowdy, R-S.C.
Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn, R-Texas


It will be one of these guys. Because 1) look how easily Pompeo and Sessions got confirmed. Republicans in Congress will always vote to confirm their Republican Congressional colleagues.

And 2) In the public House Intelligence Committee hearing on Russia with Comey and the NSA director, Gowdy asked zero questions about Russia, and many questions about "leaks" and "unmasking." Ditto for Cornyn in the Senate Judiary Comittee hearing at which Yates and Clapper Testified. Not asking questions about Russia is the number one qualification for this job in Trump's mind.
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:07 PM on May 12, 2017 [7 favorites]




How do these threads get to be 3500 comments long so fast, anyhow?
posted by Rumple at 12:08 PM on May 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


Did someone say watermelon sauerkraut?
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:08 PM on May 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


So Trump is Chuck from Better Call Saul?

I am so going to re-watch last (this?) week's episode right now...

(Kim Wexler FTW!)
posted by mikelieman at 12:09 PM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Everything keeps happening, Rumple. Everything happens so much.
posted by flatluigi at 12:09 PM on May 12, 2017 [20 favorites]


my weed dealer turned me onto Haribo

There's a long story about 1984 or 1985, a froot-loop and a US Bongs Watergate that I am not telling right now.
posted by mikelieman at 12:10 PM on May 12, 2017


Rep. Trey Gowdy, R-S.C.
Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn, R-Texas


There was an article somewhere upthread about how Congressional Republicans are getting a bit annoyed that Trump keeps nominating them for things, forcing them to defend extra seats in 2018. As horrible as Cornyn would be, Texas isn't an impossible pick up, and FBI agents would revolt en masse. So sure, go for it!
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:10 PM on May 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


It's so unbelievable that I keep wanting to turn this into a game of 12-dimensional-chess:

Seen on the twitter shortly after the Comey news broke: "Is there such a thing as 0 dimensional chess?"

I can so easily imagine Trump's team releasing a heavily edited "tape" that makes Comey say whatever they want him to say - assuming the "tapes" are digital and not steam.

At this stage I can actually easily imagine them releasing a manually chopped and spliced cassette tape, with the occasional 'great', 'huge', and 'tremendous' added in what is clearly Trump trying to do Comey's voice.
posted by Buntix at 12:10 PM on May 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


Is the FBI mandated in the Constitution in the same way as the Postal Service is?

No, the FBI is established by law. But DOJ can certainly make life difficult for the FBI.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:11 PM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Mod note: maybe ixnay on the autkray at this point
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:11 PM on May 12, 2017 [16 favorites]


McCabe's testimony yesterday pretty much guarantees it won't be him.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:14 PM on May 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


If it's Cornyn, the Governor of Texas would make a short-term appointment, then there would be a special election.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:20 PM on May 12, 2017


So the WH is bugged, right?

I imagine Trump's right suit pocket is at least. He has to keep the Samsung around for more than just Twitter and Angry Birds.
posted by bonehead at 12:25 PM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Fox News released a clip from their interviewing airing tomorrow in which Trump proposes cancelling press briefings and doing them himself every two weeks, blaming the "hostility" and how Spicer "gets beat up."
posted by zachlipton at 12:25 PM on May 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


Talez: There's an eclipse in August. If we play it right we can make them think god will destroy the sun unless Trump is impeached. Who are they going to believe? God or science?

I can tell who's been reading Chapter Six of A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court again!
posted by wenestvedt at 12:26 PM on May 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


Oh yes, please let him do his own press briefings
posted by Fleebnork at 12:27 PM on May 12, 2017 [89 favorites]


Spicer is out - look at Trump's lying face in that clip
posted by mumimor at 12:28 PM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


If it's Cornyn, the Governor of Texas would make a short-term appointment, then there would be a special election.

I swear, I will move to Texas and change my name by deed poll to "FUCK TED CRUZ, NO, SERIOUSLY, FUCK THAT GUY" and run for Cornyn's seat.
posted by Etrigan at 12:28 PM on May 12, 2017 [45 favorites]


in which Trump proposes cancelling press briefings and doing them himself every two weeks

Please everyone make loud noises about how angry we would be if he did this. So he absolutely does it.
posted by mikepop at 12:29 PM on May 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


no, donald trump will not resign if he is impeached - he will fight every bitter inch of the way out the door and perhaps beyond
posted by pyramid termite at 12:30 PM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


At this stage I can actually easily imagine them releasing a manually chopped and spliced cassette tape, with the occasional 'great', 'huge', and 'tremendous' added in what is clearly Trump trying to do Comey's voice.

The White House will insist it's actually John Barron doing the Comey impersonation.
posted by Quindar Beep at 12:31 PM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


I imagine Jared is getting pretty tired of fielding questions about Audacity.
posted by bonehead at 12:36 PM on May 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


Washington Monthly: Authoritarians Don’t Handle Nuance Very Well
An authoritarian mindset requires that everyone be categorized as either an ally or a villain. White hats signify the good guys and the bad guys wear black hats. That makes things simple. Responses to individuals are pre-programmed and there is no need to waste time in an attempt to actually listen or dig any deeper.

Also, in that kind of mindset, people’s actions aren’t complicated by things like strengths and weaknesses, assets and liabilities. They never simply make mistakes or fail to communicate thoroughly. Empathy isn’t necessary and context is irrelevant because people are either good or bad.

Obviously a lot of people thought that because Democrats criticized Comey, they saw him as a bad guy and would welcome the fact that Trump fired him. There were multiple reports today [5/11] that the White House was caught off guard by the reaction they actually got.

...

Just as many right wing sites are reporting, Schumer said he’d lost confidence in Comey. But he went on to suggest that he was going to “sit down and talk to him and get an explanation for why he did this.” That is not something an authoritarian would ever think to do.

There are an awful lot of ways to describe the various divides we experience in the world of politics. But this one seems very important. It really comes down to whether we treat each other as objects that are easily placed in neat little boxes that are marked “good” and “bad,” or if we are prepared to listen, dig a little deeper, empathize and take context into account. When we do the latter, there will be times we critique the actions of others. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are suddenly written off as “evil.”
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:37 PM on May 12, 2017 [21 favorites]


SNL needs to bring back Dan Ackroyd for a ghost of Nixon sketch.
(SNL started one year after Nixon's resignation.)
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:42 PM on May 12, 2017 [17 favorites]


There's an Asia nuclear crisis going on, and the US still doesn't have ambassadors in China, South Korea or Japan

"You'd think we're going into a crisis with North Korea, and there's no ambassador in Seoul, in Tokyo, in Beijing or an assistant secretary for East Asia. You wonder, beyond the tweets and what the White House says, how actually the work of the government is going to get done," said Vali Nasr, dean of the John Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies and a former senior advisor on Afghanistan and Pakistan under Ambassador Richard Holbrooke.

The U.S. State Department website says that those major ambassadorships are "vacant" — as are the top U.S. diplomatic posts to India and Australia — even as smaller countries such as the Philippines have ambassadors in place.

posted by zakur at 12:43 PM on May 12, 2017 [36 favorites]


Don't Blame Me I Voted For Deez Nuts

(simpler times, simpler times...)
posted by Cookiebastard at 12:43 PM on May 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


fbi...colorado springs mayor john suthers. please. get him out of here. his primary talent is fellating rich people. trumpsters love that. he'd probably get free mouthwash with his health plan.
posted by j_curiouser at 12:44 PM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Morgan Lewis & Bockius, law firm asserting that Trump's income tax returns do not show income from Russian sources or debt owed to Russians, was named Russia law firm of the year.
posted by Cheezitsofcool at 12:47 PM on May 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


David Smith, Guardian: 'What is wrong with you?' Michelle Obama savages Trump's gutting of her legacy
The 53-year-old demanded: “And why is that a partisan issue? Why would that be political? What is going on? You know, now that’s up to moms. Moms, think about this. I don’t care what state you live in. Take me out of the equation. Like me, don’t like me, but think about why someone is OK with your kids eating crap. Why would you celebrate that? Why would you sit idly and be OK with that?

“Because here’s the secret: if somebody is doing that, they don’t care about your kid, and we need to demand everyone to care deeply about kids. That’s all we have. So we should be driving this and every elected official on this planet should understand: don’t play with our children. Don’t do it.”
You go, girl.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:47 PM on May 12, 2017 [193 favorites]


Bet his staff wishes he'd leave his phone in the mailbox outside the White House.

Bet his staff wishes he was 1/24th as smart as Chuck.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:48 PM on May 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


Fox is covering basically every other outlets reporting as a "conspiracy theory."

You can almost smell the desperation.
posted by Gelatin at 12:48 PM on May 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


Spicer is out - look at Trump's lying face in that clip

Dammit I just added this lawn decoration!
posted by phearlez at 12:49 PM on May 12, 2017 [53 favorites]


Attorney General Jeff Sessions ordered federal prosecutors late Thursday to pursue the toughest possible charges and sentences against crime suspects

Then I'm sure Sessions won't complain when future federal prosecutors pursue the toughest possible charges and sentences against him and his co-conspirators.
posted by Gelatin at 12:50 PM on May 12, 2017 [31 favorites]


Dammit I just added this lawn decoration!

ZOMFG
posted by sutt at 12:51 PM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


I wish. White guys walk, always.
posted by Artw at 12:52 PM on May 12, 2017 [11 favorites]


Then the Democrats enact voter protection reforms, mandate simple registration, and counteract gerrymandering

Unilaterally disarming is part of how we got here in the first place. Democrats should offer a Constitutional Amendment addressing gerrymandering and mandating non-partisan districting nationwide... and at the same time they should gerrymander the fuck out of any state in which they come to power. If they don't do that the Republicans have absolutely no incentive to stop their shenanigans. Because they know that whenever they take power in a state they will be able to get a massive advantage but that there is no equivalent downside when they lose power.
posted by Justinian at 12:53 PM on May 12, 2017 [22 favorites]


The U.S. State Department website says that those major ambassadorships are "vacant" — as are the top U.S. diplomatic posts to India and Australia — even as smaller countries such as the Philippines have ambassadors in place.

Well, the Philippines has one of Trump's authoritarian buddies in charge, so that one was easy.
posted by kozad at 12:53 PM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


Remember that 45's shtick about Comey included the FBI being in semi-chaos. I'd expect the appointment to be of someone to lead a 'root and branch reform', aka purge. Purge. It's a great word. The best. Expect to see it lots.

Further, I expect the 'housecleaning' to be of such ineptitude that the FBI will be effectively paralysed, and as those are the folks in charge of stopping terror attacks, it will have the pleasant side-effect of provoking the state of emergency that 45 so clearly desires.

But nobody's banging the drum about how fucking over the head of the FBI in such an inept manner has already damanged national security. Of ir they have, I've missed it in IceCreamScoopgate.

I don't quite understand why people aren't on the streets over there already. Or maybe I do. But, chaps, really. Time is running out.

What IS your red line?
posted by Devonian at 12:55 PM on May 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


Democrats should offer a Constitutional Amendment addressing gerrymandering and mandating non-partisan districting nationwide

Non-partisan districting is impossible. Even if you mandate it, Republicans these days are more than happy to register Independent to take up Democratic slots in any non-partisan process.
posted by Talez at 12:56 PM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Anyone who wants to use power in a fair and legitimate way is at a total disadvantage: if you don't use the same (unethical, illegal) tactics as your opponents, you can't win. If you do use them, you soon become as craven as your opponents. This is how democracy dies.
posted by rikschell at 12:57 PM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


A top cleric of the Russian Orthodox Church and ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin met privately with Vice President Mike Pence Thursday morning

Theoretically about "combating terrorism in the Middle East" but I'm pretty sure burning all the gays was a subject of conversation.


How many bugs can a Russian Orthodox minister hide in his robes? "Let us pray, my son. Close your eyes and we will seek God's blessing" [glides around sticking bugs everywhere]
posted by emjaybee at 12:58 PM on May 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


Non-gerrymandered districting which does not take into account political preferences is very possible. For example, Iowa.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:59 PM on May 12, 2017 [5 favorites]




Non-partisan districting is impossible.

mandate it be done by computer with clear specifications
posted by pyramid termite at 1:00 PM on May 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


Roll Call: Freedom Caucus May Push for More Than Tax Overhaul in Next Budget
Members of the conservative House Freedom Caucus are considering a push for broader reconciliation authority in the upcoming fiscal 2018 budget resolution that would allow Republicans to pursue policies beyond a tax code overhaul.

“We believe that writing the instructions more broadly will give us greater flexibility not only to get tax reform but also to address other areas simultaneously,” Freedom Caucus Chairman Mark Meadows said in an interview here Friday.

One idea floated is including language in the reconciliation instructions that would allow committees of jurisdiction to look at policies for overhauling the welfare system, which, like a tax code rewrite, is one of the six planks of House Republicans’ “A Better Way” agenda.
Why limit the focus to cutting taxes for the rich when you can take away benefits from the poor at the same time, asks the Freedom Caucus.
posted by zachlipton at 1:00 PM on May 12, 2017 [25 favorites]


Republicans, ever searching for a more perfect way to kill us all.
posted by Artw at 1:02 PM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


Jennifer Rubin has some more really excellent columns. Because the chips are down, I won't forget that she's been for real against the Popular Vote Loser since last year and been on the side of justice and accountability, specifically in the matter of the Russian Affair. She's been strong where virtually all other right-leaning commentators have abandoned objectivity and loyalty to the institutions of our way of government.

Trump’s ‘tapes’ tweet is too much. Hasn’t the GOP had enough?
The 2016 election demonstrated that the party once united by political thought (e.g., smaller government, objective truth, respect for tradition, the rule of law) and respect for civic virtue would accept a thoughtless, entirely unscrupulous leader for the sake of holding power. (“Sure, he’s totally ignorant about the world, but we’ll get the Supreme Court.” “Well, he’s obviously lying about a bunch of issues, but he’ll sign whatever the House gives him.“) En masse, most Republicans — including those at some premier publications (which are now unreadable to all but the Trump cultists) — declared willingness to defend ignorance, bigotry, dishonesty and ineptitude on the chance that they’d get a top marginal tax rate of 28 percent. The calculation, to those not driven by partisan zeal, seems shockingly small-minded and tribalistic. (At least Hillary Clinton’s not there to raise taxes!) One marvels at other trades they’d make. (Lose an independent judiciary for sake of a meaningless and offensive travel ban?)

Republican Party identification has begun requiring intellectual vacuity. One has to be free from shame to agree that it’s no big deal when Trump confesses he fired former FBI director James B. Comey because he decided Russian interference in the election was “just a made-up story.” A slew of FBI agents is now investigating the “made-up story,” the entire intelligence community verifies it and members of both parties acknowledge that it occurred. [...]
Jeff Sessions is in deep trouble, and here’s why
That is the investigation that Sessions promised to stay away from. Firing the man heading the investigation — especially if Sessions knew that the reason was not the one stated in Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein’s May 9 memo — is a matter “arising from the campaigns for President of the United States.”

Sessions may have some explanation for why he chose to participate in the firing of Comey. But the attorney general may now be in considerable legal peril.[...]

[...] In sum, Sessions has risked his law license, whether he realized it or not. He needs to testify immediately under oath; if there is no satisfactory explanation, he must resign. The alternative could be impeachment proceedings.
Comey’s firing was about Russia (duh!). Why can’t Republicans admit it?
One wonders when conservative media outlets and Republicans such as House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) will stop the frantic effort to avert their eyes from the inescapable picture of a president furious that he could neither sidetrack the FBI director with his ludicrous accusation of “wiretapping” nor slow down his pursuit of evidence of wrongdoing.

Every GOP lawmaker should be pushed to answer a simple question: If the president fired Comey to slow down the Russia investigation and concocted a cover story that included sending out the vice president and others to lie, would you consider that an impeachable offense? If the answer is no, then they approve — when it’s their man in the Oval Office — subversion of our justice system.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:03 PM on May 12, 2017 [62 favorites]




(Hope she gets a Jury Trial)
posted by Artw at 1:07 PM on May 12, 2017 [75 favorites]


mandate it be done by computer with clear specifications

Different specifications still give different results. Do you want competitive districts? Do you want shortest splitline districts? Following county boundaries?

One solution to make things more resistant to gerrymandering is to use at-large lists and IRV for any state <10 reps. Outside of that, trying to make individual seat boundaries work is going to be inherently partisan in one way or another.
posted by Talez at 1:09 PM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


TN Woman Gets Two Thumbs Up from WI Man
posted by The Gaffer at 1:09 PM on May 12, 2017 [43 favorites]


"...there are no 'minders' who have enough influence to mind him."
Trump has minders. Remember when he went into the lil room with Kislyak and Lavrov and ordered his photographer to take a bunch of pictures of him and Lavrov but not to release them? And then the Russian photographer took a bunch of pictures of all of them and the Russians released their photos of all of them, to Trump's momentary discomfort 'til he forgot all about it a few hours later? Who was in charge, there? And then remember, Trump ordered his staff to release just the ones of him and Lavrov? After the horse was hours out of the barn?

I gotta say, this stuff makes me reaaaaally mad. He's a loathsome toad who should be under the jail, should have been under the jail since forever ago for the crap he pulled as a real estate vampire and allegedly human trafficking allegedly spouse abusing alleged rapemonkey, and he's Not My President and all that, but he is still technically the president of my country. He's the president, he's non compos mentis, and Putin is taking advantage of his obvious helplessness to make fun of him in front of the whole world.
posted by Don Pepino at 1:10 PM on May 12, 2017 [14 favorites]




The GOP must never be let off the hook for allowing Trump to happen to the nation.
posted by Liquidwolf at 1:13 PM on May 12, 2017 [106 favorites]


Cops: TN Woman Tried to Run GOP Rep Off Road for AHCA Vote

Memphis vs. Errrbody
posted by Huffy Puffy at 1:14 PM on May 12, 2017 [4 favorites]




Cops: TN Woman Tried to Run GOP Rep Off Road for AHCA Vote
(Hope she gets a Jury Trial)


i hope she gets a medal
posted by entropicamericana at 1:15 PM on May 12, 2017 [15 favorites]


Cops: TN Woman Tried to Run GOP Rep Off Road for AHCA Vote

Well it's not like she laughed at him.
posted by bibliowench at 1:19 PM on May 12, 2017 [28 favorites]


This Twitter account I just found will tweet pictures of President Obama with children once an hour.

It's so precious I want to die.
posted by Tevin at 1:21 PM on May 12, 2017 [46 favorites]


I love the one with the tiaras.
posted by Autumnheart at 1:23 PM on May 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump has a kid. Somewhere.
posted by Artw at 1:35 PM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


Ex-CIA officer: ‘Give the president of the United States a pacifier and a rattle and put him in the crib’

Thats all very good and relevant but the thing is, those people who will take over as they realize the president is not in charge are not who anyone wants to lead a nation. Military, police, State Departement, all full of super-smart and patriotic people. But not people who are fit to govern. The threat of autocracy might not be from the bumbling trumpists, but from the people who are coming in to save us…
posted by mumimor at 1:35 PM on May 12, 2017 [5 favorites]




Yikes, can we refrain from the bloodlust in here? Wishing for people to get hurt or killed isn't cool.
posted by agregoli at 1:37 PM on May 12, 2017 [14 favorites]


Mod note: Couple things removed, can you please all just fuckin' cool it a bit as a personal favor to me on this Friday afternoon, thank in advance and/or don't make me turn this car around.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:39 PM on May 12, 2017 [60 favorites]


Republicans floating Merrick Garland for FBI director should be careful what they wish for.

I found myself wondering what would happen if the offer was made—and if Garland then politely said, “I accept, but first I must ask the chief judge of the Circuit for a multi-year leave of absence. Oh—wait! I AM the chief judge! Leave granted. Subpoenas go out Monday.” Garland would then move to the J. Edgar Hoover Building for a year or two (long enough, say, to complete some unfinished counterintelligence investigations about Russia) before returning to a seat that was never vacant.

Here’s where the sick jest turns on its maker. Lee poses as an authority on the Constitution; he must, then, know that the document doesn’t forbid a judge from accepting executive office—while continuing to serve on the bench. Look at Article I § 6 cl. 2—the only explicit “separation of powers” provision in the Constitution: “no person holding any office under the United States, shall be a member of either house [of Congress] during his [or her] continuance in office.”

The words say that no executive or judicial official can serve in Congress without giving up his former job. They do not say that no judge can serve in executive office while remaining a judge.

posted by T.D. Strange at 1:40 PM on May 12, 2017 [26 favorites]


This Twitter account I just found will tweet pictures of President Obama with children once an hour.

Best. Bot. Ever.
posted by mikelieman at 1:42 PM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Johnny Wallflower: David Smith, Guardian: 'What is wrong with you?' Michelle Obama savages Trump's gutting of her legacy

There's a poster in my son's daycare that features Michelle Obama, in promotion of eating healthy foods and staying active. Weeks after the election, that poster made me so very sad for the things we have lost, and I was so worried it would be taken down and replaced by something from Trump.

It's May, and that poster is still there, because there is nothing that has replaced her program in terms of press materials, though I also believe that this daycare won't put up anything pro-Trump any time soon, TBH.



And in case you needed to be reminded, do not search for anything related to the Obamas, because there are so many infuriating, terrible captioned images, awful cartoons, and so forth.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:42 PM on May 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


Thank you to the kind person upthread who linked to the James Fallows Atlantic story about how Trump is already worse than Nixon, from where I got to a reprint of Hunter S. Thompson's obituary of Nixon in Rolling Stone. I've read it before, but it's a whole different feeling reading it again in this, the year 2017:

"Let there be no mistake in the history books about that. Richard Nixon was an evil man — evil in a way that only those who believe in the physical reality of the Devil can understand it. He was utterly without ethics or morals or any bedrock sense of decency. Nobody trusted him — except maybe the Stalinist Chinese, and honest historians will remember him mainly as a rat who kept scrambling to get back on the ship."

Twenty years from now (if civilization still exists) there should be some bracing writing about Trump and the Trump era.

If you haven't ever read that obituary, please do. Not only is it a fabulous piece of invective, but you'll also get to meet familiar faces - Billy Graham, Bill Clinton, Robert Bork, Bob Dole - in an unfamiliar context.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:42 PM on May 12, 2017 [50 favorites]


Yikes, can we refrain from the bloodlust in here? Wishing for people to get hurt or killed isn't cool

You know the other side absolutely does not abide by this, right?
posted by Artw at 1:44 PM on May 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


You know the other side absolutely does not abide by this, right?

Yes. But we are supposed to be different. If I wanted to associate with sociopaths, I'd still be Republican.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 1:46 PM on May 12, 2017 [80 favorites]


You know the other side absolutely does not abide by this, right?

Yeah, but it'd be kinda nice not to have "they started it" become the guiding theory of MetaFilter commentary. I like it here because I don't expect to have things go that way, speaking as a user. Speaking as a mod, save me some extra shitty cleanup work please, etc.
posted by cortex at 1:47 PM on May 12, 2017 [62 favorites]


You know the other side absolutely does not abide by this, right?

I don't want to have things about bloodlust in common with that hypothetical "other side" thanks.
posted by Talez at 1:47 PM on May 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


I was wondering what Rupert Murdoch was up to on Twitter these days. He seems to not use it except for butttweets.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:57 PM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


You don't have to refrain from going for the jugular everywhere, just not here.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:58 PM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


from where I got to a reprint of Hunter S. Thompson's obituary of Nixon in Rolling Stone.

That's always been a kind of touchstone for me. I still have that issue in a box somewhere. My favorite part has always been:
I have had my own bloody relationship with Nixon for many years, but I am not worried about it landing me in hell with him. I have already been there with that bastard, and I am a better person for it. Nixon had the unique ability to make his enemies seem honorable, and we developed a keen sense of fraternity. Some of my best friends have hated Nixon all their lives. My mother hates Nixon, my son hates Nixon, I hate Nixon, and this hatred has brought us together.

Nixon laughed when I told him this. "Don't worry," he said, "I, too, am a family man, and we feel the same way about you."
Well, that and the part about beating him like a mad dog with mange.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:59 PM on May 12, 2017 [11 favorites]


Mefi's continuing insistence that this situation will resolve without violence seems preposterous.
posted by TypographicalError at 2:03 PM on May 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


We don't have to WISH for violence.
posted by agregoli at 2:04 PM on May 12, 2017 [30 favorites]


Mefi's continuing insistence that this situation will resolve without violence seems preposterous.

I'm not sure where you get this from. I'm terrified there will be wide scale sectarian violence in this country. It doesn't mean I have to help it along with inflammatory rhetoric about people's lives.
posted by Talez at 2:05 PM on May 12, 2017 [21 favorites]


The evil of both Nixon and Trump was motivated by self-interest and a desire for zero-sum domination of others. But while Nixon was competent and clever, Trump is an attention-seeking ignoramus who is easily manipulated, even by foreign governments. He is vastly more dangerous than Nixon.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:06 PM on May 12, 2017 [21 favorites]


As much as I believe violence is inevitable, I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
posted by Gaz Errant at 2:07 PM on May 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


The best case scenario for the left in case of some sort of large-scale violent incident is six of us left here at Mefi singing "Empty Threads and Empty Chatrooms" Les Mis style. So let's hope it doesn't come to that and work to fix this in every other way we can.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:08 PM on May 12, 2017 [11 favorites]


The part in Nixon's obituary about him being so crooked that he needed servants to help him screw his pants on every morning is my favorite part and gets me every time. It really is too bad the good Doctor isn't here to write about this shitshow.
posted by friendlyjuan at 2:10 PM on May 12, 2017 [15 favorites]


/r/conservative isn't devoted to the Trump personality cult quite as much as /r/the_donald, but it's been almost 100% on the trump train so far and is extremely rightwing and dogmatic: you will be banned from /r/conservative if you mention the Southern Strategy in other subreddits. Here's the top 5 comments for Trump warns Comey: Better hope there are no tapes of our meeting. I'm not saying that I'm sure he'll lose significant support over this, but I cannot stress enough how out-of-the-ordinary these responses are.

1. "I often try to side with him but when he does shit like this I just can't. One, it seems like a threat. Two, he comes across as guilty. Almost admitting that recent info on a private dinner where he asked for loyalty are true. I have been a believer that he was not involved in some conspiracy to collude with Russia but.... I can't help but admit it seems at least possible he is capable of it when he does things like this. This isn't good and it gives stories legs. Gives the media more ammo."

2. "Wtf is he doing"

3. "It feels like this is dangerously close to toeing the line of threatening/intimidating a witness, and now (after his firing) it is targeted at a private citizen."

4. "What is the possible upside of making a public statement like this?"

5. "The problem is that this sort of absurd and unprofessional behavior can seriously hurt congressional Republicans. Aetna just announced its leaving exchanges and that can give congress a lot more ammo on doing something with Healthcare but instead Trump is playing celebrity apprentice with the government. Unless he wants a Democratic house in 2018, he needs to shut the fuck up and play some smarter politics. This isn't smart politics."
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:11 PM on May 12, 2017 [25 favorites]






I, for one, am absolutely shocked that the man who completely debased his professional ethics by writing a fraud of a memo to support a fraud of a president in the commission of a felony would decline to appoint a special prosecutor.
posted by Gaz Errant at 2:17 PM on May 12, 2017 [75 favorites]


Rosenstein will not appoint a special prosecutor

Water wet, sky is blue, Liberals gofund reconstruction of burned GOP offices.
posted by Artw at 2:17 PM on May 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


Rosenstein will not appoint a special prosecutor

This is my surprised face.
posted by INFJ at 2:20 PM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]




Rosenstein will not appoint a special prosecutor

That tweet seems to be the single source for this at the moment. If true, it's time to hit the streets and demand one.
posted by GalaxieFiveHundred at 2:22 PM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


The next best thing is an independent commission, but that would require Trump's signature or a veto-override which is ludicrous. The best thing after that is a special congressional committee, which is what the Democrats should continue to demand by refusing to do anything in the Senate until it is agreed upon.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:24 PM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


T.D. Strange: "The words say that no executive or judicial official can serve in Congress without giving up his former job. They do not say that no judge can serve in executive office while remaining a judge."

OMG. This is, like, the real-life version of "nowhere in the rule book does it say that a dog can't play basketball."
posted by mhum at 2:28 PM on May 12, 2017 [35 favorites]


The Garland thing is dumb, give it up.
posted by Artw at 2:30 PM on May 12, 2017 [11 favorites]


AP: BREAKING: Trump lawyer: Tax returns from past 10 years show no "income of any type from Russian sources," with few exceptions.

Charles Pierce: With a few exceptions, I'm a vegan. (Jeffrey Dahmer).
posted by TedW at 2:32 PM on May 12, 2017 [19 favorites]


White House Staff React in Real-Time as Trump Tweets: ‘Jesus’
Senior administration officials have grown accustomed to learning about their boss’s whims in unorthodox ways but it doesn’t mean they like it or are prepared for the sudden swings of emotion. For instance, one official was having a conversation with a Daily Beast reporter on Friday morning when the reporter interrupted the official to inform them that Trump was on Twitter again.
After a brief pause to check Twitter, the senior Trump aide informed of the unfolding rant, responded, “Jesus.”
posted by rewil at 2:32 PM on May 12, 2017 [39 favorites]


After a brief pause to check Twitter, the senior Trump aide informed of the unfolding rant, responded, “Jesus.”

Stars: They're just like us!
posted by theodolite at 2:37 PM on May 12, 2017 [15 favorites]


Only criminally complicit!
posted by Artw at 2:37 PM on May 12, 2017 [34 favorites]


>>Rosenstein will not appoint a special prosecutor
> I'm not surprised, but I am disappointed. After the reporting that Rosenstein was angry at being blamed personally for Comey's firing, I was hoping he might actually do the right thing.


This is where Josh Marshall's concept of "Dignity Wraiths" becomes useful to understand:

[Rosenstein] now joins a legion of Trump Dignity Wraiths, men and women (though mainly men) of once vaunted reputations or at least public prestige who have been reduced to mere husks of their former selves after crossing the Trump Dignity Loss Event Horizon.

(Better known examples: Mitt Romney; Chris Christie and the Submission Meatloaf.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:39 PM on May 12, 2017 [56 favorites]


The dying ember of hope inside me says that he's not appointing a special prosecutor because the existing FBI investigation is in pissed-off hyperdrive.
posted by theodolite at 2:40 PM on May 12, 2017 [22 favorites]


I'm pretty sure he could have continued the FBI investigation while a special counsel worked separately. He is simply choosing to do Trump's bidding.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:44 PM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


The GOP will go on pretending everything is normal until 2018. Eventually the Chuck Todds of the world will just accept that having a traitor as President as the way things are now, and go back to wondering why the Democrats can't just find common cause with him. Presuming the Democrats manage to continue to resist.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:44 PM on May 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


It's weird how they keep expecting the same "we're the establishment, not you" rhetoric to work.
They're bomb throwing radical anarchists. Just in suits. And making money off the bomb throwing.
Rebellion has come full circle to where supporting law and order is anti-authoritarian.

Maybe I'll sell some t-shirts with Justitia in a "Che" pose.
posted by Smedleyman at 2:45 PM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Here’s where the sick jest turns on its maker. Lee poses as an authority on the Constitution; he must, then, know that the document doesn’t forbid a judge from accepting executive office—while continuing to serve on the bench. Look at Article I § 6 cl. 2—the only explicit “separation of powers” provision in the Constitution: “no person holding any office under the United States, shall be a member of either house [of Congress] during his [or her] continuance in office.”

The words say that no executive or judicial official can serve in Congress without giving up his former job. They do not say that no judge can serve in executive office while remaining a judge.


Let's just keep this on the DL so Trump doesn't realize he can nominate himself for the Supreme Court.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:47 PM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


People have made the connection between Trump ramping up the drug war again and the disenfranchisement of felons, right?
posted by dinty_moore at 2:48 PM on May 12, 2017 [35 favorites]


> OMG. This is, like, the real-life version of "nowhere in the rule book does it say that a dog can't play basketball."

Coming this Summer: Air Bud: Constitutional "Awwww!" This time, Bud's got a nose for justice.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:50 PM on May 12, 2017 [8 favorites]




White House Staff React in Real-Time as Trump Tweets: ‘Jesus’
Sanders was forced to walk back her claims the day before. “I went off of the information that I had when I answered your question,” she admitted.

Dude, please, I believe the preferred nomenclature is "I was just following orders."
posted by Room 641-A at 2:58 PM on May 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


The Garland thing is dumb, give it up.

I'd love to, but our Democratic leaders in their infinite wisdom are agreeing with the Republicans that this should be a thing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:00 PM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


So the national gaslighting continues.

Nothing is happening. If nothing happens, the line will have moved again. That chucklefuck above is already floating the idea of rounding people up.

At this pace we won't last until 2018.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:01 PM on May 12, 2017 [17 favorites]


They're Nazis. That's what's wrong with them. Everyone should be keeping a mental list of all this straight up Nazi shit, everyone who's championing it, everyone who's normalizing it, and yes, even every single person who tries to tell you or us that "it's not that bad" or "don't exaggerate" or "it would never happen here."
posted by yasaman at 3:03 PM on May 12, 2017 [59 favorites]


Now, now. Some of them are only Vichy quislings, to mix a couple of collaborators.
posted by Justinian at 3:04 PM on May 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


> Trump’s Commission on ‘Election Integrity’ Will Lead to Massive Voter Suppression

Ari Berman on Democracy Now: Donald Trump Orders "Election Integrity" Commission Headed by Architects of Voter Suppression

Would Trump Have Won Wisconsin—or the 2016 Election—Without Widespread Voter Suppression?
posted by homunculus at 3:04 PM on May 12, 2017 [8 favorites]




Would Trump Have Won Wisconsin—or the 2016 Election—Without Widespread Voter Suppression?

No.

And precious few Republicans would win anywhere.
posted by Artw at 3:06 PM on May 12, 2017 [32 favorites]


Mr. President, Julian Assange for you on line one.

WikiLeaks offers $100k for Trump-Comey tapes
posted by Room 641-A at 3:19 PM on May 12, 2017 [13 favorites]


Someone in a local Facebook group just posted a letter to the editor (of a small suburban paper) that was written by a local suburban councilman re the town-hall-minus-the-MOC that was recently organized, in which he referred to the Democratic voters and activists who attended as all sorts of the usual derisive names but also "low-information" and right there is where my head actually exploded.

Clean up in Aisle My Dining Room Table
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:20 PM on May 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


re Election Integrity...

they should hang their "Theft is Integrity" sign right next to their "Work is Freedom" one.
posted by j_curiouser at 3:24 PM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


I've become fascinated by the idea of Trump tapes, namely what form they would be in. Given that Trump is a 70 year old who has not adapted well to the computer age I am torn between thinking he has audio files stored on a computer or backup that are only retrievable by someone else or he has actual, labeled cassette tapes.Neither seems very likely. If he is using casettes then what is he using as a recording device? If he is using his phone to record them, then who does he trust to curate the recordings?

Let's say he wants to record a conversation with Comey over dinner. Let's say he knows how to use his phone to make a recording, because some showed him. Now what? At some point he may want to refer back to that recording. Can he retrieve it himself? Can he find the file? Has someone (who?) placed it in a folder with tags: FBI, Comey, 5/10/17, Loyalty_Oath and would DJT have the ability to not only locate it not also figure out how to play it back with sound?

These may become very pertinent questions in an investigation.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:26 PM on May 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


can i start a super pac that doesn't "pay people to vote", but instead pays them to ride in a van to the sidewalk just outside the polling place? after that, their business if they want to take a stroll or step inside.
posted by j_curiouser at 3:29 PM on May 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


j_curiouser: on a similar note, where can I donate to help people get whatever ID is now deemed necessary to vote? Helping people get to the DMV, apply for an ID card, etc. seems a lot more useful than more campaign ads.
posted by adamsc at 3:34 PM on May 12, 2017 [35 favorites]


How about a Super PAC that pays people to get their state ID and drives them to the DMV? Since Republicans are so concerned about identifying people and making sure they're voting legally, then it can only be to everyone's benefit that the barriers to obtaining that particular document. They can register to vote while they're there.
posted by Autumnheart at 3:35 PM on May 12, 2017 [18 favorites]


Jinx.
posted by Autumnheart at 3:36 PM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Spread the Vote

seems to be currently focused on Georgia, but also more generally trying to get folks ID so they can vote.
posted by little cow make small moo at 3:42 PM on May 12, 2017 [37 favorites]


These may become very pertinent questions in an investigation.

I assume he has someone who can do this for him, who sets up his phone or the taping equipment or whatever. I wouldn't be surprised if they found an app for him and taught him how to use it, but my guess is there's an underling for this.
posted by blnkfrnk at 3:48 PM on May 12, 2017


Re: voting fraud commission

They're stealing 2018 now. This is happening now. And nothing is stopping it.

I think, from a psychological standpoint, not having an opposition leader is paralyzing. With every new thing that goes effectively unanswered, people feel a little more powerless. People freeze when they're powerless.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:53 PM on May 12, 2017 [36 favorites]


Nixon went on Laugh-In, for pete's sake. Trump has less ability to take a joke than a man who could be the poster child for "dour."
posted by thebrokedown at 3:53 PM on May 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


Does anyone know if there's a national organization targeting opposition marches or campaigns in specific congressional districts?
posted by schadenfrau at 3:55 PM on May 12, 2017


He's using Beta. It'll be months before Congress can find a tape player to hear the recordings.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 3:55 PM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


little cow make small moo: thanks! Georgia's only one state but they certainly need the help.
posted by adamsc at 3:57 PM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Well, he was using magnetic tapes until that nice Russian camera crew gave him a cool new mini-recorder. He had always had a hard time figuring out digital recorders before but this one is great, it has AI so you just tell it what you want it to play back and a guy's voice answers you and after a little while it plays back the recording you wanted. It's made in Russia so the voice has an accent but you get used to that. [fake]
posted by contraption at 4:00 PM on May 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


I don't know about the rest of you but I am hoping the president squeezes in 72 holes of golf this weekend.
posted by srboisvert at 4:02 PM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


He should golf 72 holes per day. We'd all be safer. And saner.
posted by Glibpaxman at 4:05 PM on May 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


I figured his bodyguard was in charge of setting up the recording tech for him.

Is there a movement towards paper ballots anywhere? As long as we have such easily hackable voting machines, all the other stuff's kind of a joke anyway. I have no idea why we forgot all about those and accepted the last election results with so little skepticism.
posted by bink at 4:10 PM on May 12, 2017 [10 favorites]




So today the Chicago Sun-Times published a story on Chicago Police's formerly secret profiling list. It has 400,000 names on it.

It is probably just a coincidence that the number black men in Chicago is roughly 400,000.
posted by srboisvert at 4:11 PM on May 12, 2017 [27 favorites]


There's Brand New Congress, which is more of a "we just want new good people for congress" initiative. I don't quite know what to think about them but they seem very thorough and pretty thoughtful about researching different districts' demographics etc. (there's a form so you can tell them about your district) to find candidates that really represent/resonate in those places.

Flippable is more targeting state-level stuff I think, but they seem to have their shit together? I follow them on twitter and they are often tweeting useful reminders about more local races I wouldn't otherwise know about, reminding people to register, sending you to donation pages for races, etc.

Justice Democrats seem to be doing kinda the same thing as Brand New Congress, and working with them, but specifically for democrats. (Brand New Congress is trying to recruit candidates from different parties, though I assume in practice it is mostly democrats, too...)
posted by little cow make small moo at 4:12 PM on May 12, 2017 [20 favorites]


This is where Josh Marshall's concept of "Dignity Wraiths" becomes useful to understand:

[Rosenstein] now joins a legion of Trump Dignity Wraiths, men and women (though mainly men) of once vaunted reputations or at least public prestige who have been reduced to mere husks of their former selves after crossing the Trump Dignity Loss Event Horizon.


Marshall like so many people in the political sphere conflates perception of the person with the person themselves. I don't think they have been reduced so much as revealed. The Trump tornado merely rips their respectability masks off and you see the real person.
posted by srboisvert at 4:20 PM on May 12, 2017 [13 favorites]


On voting rights, here's an effort in Florida.
Florida is one of only three states that bans former felons from voting for the rest of their life.

That policy disenfranchises 1.68 million Floridians, including one out of every five African American adults in the state.

Floridians could vote to automatically give former felons their rights back. But [we] need over 700,000 signatures if that’s going to be on the 2018 ballot.

miamirights.com
posted by spamandkimchi at 4:20 PM on May 12, 2017 [28 favorites]


Trump on Comey 'tapes': 'I can't talk about that'

“Well, that I can’t talk about,” Trump told Fox News’s Jeanine Pirro in the clip released Friday. “I won’t talk about that. All I want is for Comey to be honest and I hope he will be, and I’m sure he will be, I hope.”

Trump also denied that he demanded Comey’s loyalty to him during a January dinner, something that has been reported by The New York Times and The Associated Press.
“No, I didn’t,” he said when asked if he gave that request. “But I don’t think it would be a bad question to ask. I think loyalty to the country, loyalty to the United States is important."

“You know, I mean it depends on how you define loyalty, number one. Number two, I don’t know how that got there, because I didn’t ask that question.”
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:21 PM on May 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


Does anyone know if there's a national organization targeting opposition marches or campaigns in specific congressional districts?

SwingLeft District Funds
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:21 PM on May 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


Trump’s Expected Pick for Top USDA Scientist is not a Scientist
The USDA’s research section studies everything from climate change to nutrition. Under the 2008 Farm Bill, its leader is supposed to serve as the agency’s “chief scientist” and be chosen “from among distinguished scientists with specialized or significant experience in agricultural research, education, and economics.”

But Sam Clovis – who, according to sources with knowledge of the appointment and members of the agriculture trade press, is President Trump’s pick to oversee the section -- appears to have no such credentials.

Clovis has never taken a graduate course in science and is openly skeptical of climate change. While he has a doctorate in public administration and was a tenured professor of business and public policy at Morningside College for 10 years, he has published almost no academic work.
He is, on the other hand, a conservative talk radio host who supported Trump. Oh yeah, he's also reportedly the guy who recruited Carter Page to the Trump campaign.
posted by zachlipton at 4:22 PM on May 12, 2017 [51 favorites]




The Tragedy of James Comey
Comey said he sought to preserve the FBI’s political independence. But that was never the whole truth. Comey sought to appease the Republicans whose complaints and criticisms he took seriously enough to address by breaking Justice Department guidelines. But he never seems to have taken Democratic complaints that seriously, or ever feared that their frustration with the FBI would compromise the bureau’s political independence.

Comey was so focused on defending himself, and his agency, from political attacks from the right that he effectively ceded to his critics the independence he thought he was protecting.
Got through the whole article without using the word hamartia. Mediocre.

I asked 7 experts if the Comey firing is a constitutional crisis. Here’s what they said.

Not yet...
Our Rendezvous With Authoritarianism has Arrived

more at OMNIVORE
posted by the man of twists and turns at 4:32 PM on May 12, 2017 [17 favorites]


Eric Holder on Sessions' memo instructing DOJ to return to stricter drug enforcement: "The policy announced today is not tough on crime. It is dumb on crime." (Sorry for twitter link, I couldn't find the full statement text elsewhere.)
posted by misskaz at 4:38 PM on May 12, 2017 [23 favorites]


Trump also denied that he demanded Comey’s loyalty to him during a January dinner, something that has been reported by The New York Times and The Associated Press.
“No, I didn’t,” he said when asked if he gave that request. “But I don’t think it would be a bad question to ask. I think loyalty to the country, loyalty to the United States is important."


"I am the State."
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:38 PM on May 12, 2017 [20 favorites]


I expect he'll get a singing telegram from Obama and Hillary telling him what a great idea it is.

a certified singing telegram?
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:39 PM on May 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


Those tapes, Trump is hinting at, were they perhaps, delivered by the Russians who met privately with President Trump, in the oval office? They must be some bad shizz as only the Russians could dredge up. They were grinning so bigly, they must have erased some tapes and discovered others. Could any of you have predicted how this 100 some odd days have gone?

The President's chief advisor, I mean his daughter, peddling handbags and whatnot in China?
The President's other chief advisor, I mean his son in law, peddling visas?
What his press secretary hiding out in the bushes, in a huge suit, no not in the bushes, sorry, after being notified less than an hour before the firing of the head of the FBI? I mean what, Anonymous warning about WW3, imminent? Lots of smoke and mirrors. The house whipped up into righteous religious frenzy pulling the rug out from under everyone who makes less than $75,000 per year. Oh yeah and the righteous bitch slapping of Planned Parenthood, oh wait, and review of the national monuments, then in general the wolves who have been hired to watch the sheep.
posted by Oyéah at 4:41 PM on May 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


The Age of Trump is producing more black gun owners:
Lesley Green's decision to get a gun came the day after Trump won the election. She received a frightening phone call from her 19-year-old daughter, a freshman at The University of Cincinnati. Through hysterical tears, her daughter told her that a group of white nationalists were outside of her dorm building handing out pamphlets and signing students up to join their resurgent movement...

The idea that her daughter, not too much older than she was when her father taught her how to shoot, would be walking through a campus the size of a large town with packs of white supremacists roaming around—literally at the Mason-Dixon Line where it touches Ohio—was the final straw on the scale, leading her to once again enter a gun store.
posted by corb at 4:43 PM on May 12, 2017 [21 favorites]


Trump has a long history of secretly recording calls, according to former associates
Trump’s fascination with recording his conversations reaches back to the early years of his real estate career, when he installed in his 26th-story office in Trump Tower a “system for surreptitiously tape recording business meetings,” according to an eyewitness account in Harry Hurt’s 1993 biography, “Lost Tycoon.” And BuzzFeed News reported last year that Trump listened in on calls made by staff at his Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida.
...
Last spring, when two Post reporters visited Trump in his office for another interview, Trump, in the middle of telling a story about how he demolished the Manhattan landmark that had stood where Trump Tower is now, asked his guests if they would like something to drink.

In the same quiet voice in which he’d been conducting the interview, Trump said, “Okay, two waters and a Coke.” The interview resumed and less than a minute later, a secretary walked in with the drinks. No one other than the reporters and Trump had been in the office. And Trump never signaled the drink request to anyone outside the office.
The story also discusses the White House phones. Trump has been obsessed with bragging about the phone system. Maybe recording capabilities are part of why he's so fond of it? [No, I don't know why this claims that transmitting calls by VoIP results in a transcript of calls, but certainly WHCA could transcribe them.]
The White House Communications Agency, a military office that works with the Secret Service to assure secure communications for the president, video-records some closed presidential meetings and events. And the president’s phone calls have been transmitted since 2011 using Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP), an Internet technology that sends voice messages as packets of digitized data. The technology allows for retrieval of a text record of presidential conversations.
posted by zachlipton at 4:54 PM on May 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


Paul Ryan isn't going to comment on the tweets because he hasn't seen them all.

How about when they're on the front page of every paper in the country tomorrow? Will you maybe share your thoughts then?
posted by diogenes at 4:55 PM on May 12, 2017 [13 favorites]


The Age of Trump is producing more black gun owners

Daddy Said Shoot
posted by misskaz at 4:56 PM on May 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


The Age of Trump is producing more black gun owners

Someone tell the NRA. They might support background checks now.
posted by Glibpaxman at 5:01 PM on May 12, 2017 [34 favorites]


Reminder that Trump's law firm that released the letter won the Russia Law Firm of the Year award in 2016. [real]

From 400 thread-years ago but that's what was in the clipboard. Good stuff.

Hey member when Gee Dubz was going to be the most reviled, worst preznit in history? Jimmy crap corn man whodathunkit.

Hey member when Bob told Jake and Elwood they owed him $300 for beer and they were like, "well, we figured it was, like, free" and that head shake and little laugh Bob gives them?

Last thread someone mentioned to Trump that he could just up and walk away. Y'know, get his easy life back. Heh heh . . . nawww . . heh.

Cover the exits
posted by petebest at 5:12 PM on May 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


Oh yeah, Gowdy has some fetish that will make him a servile lapdog of this administration, when it is suddenly served on a dish in front of a private audience, steaming hot and smelly.
posted by Oyéah at 5:13 PM on May 12, 2017


How about when they're on the front page of every paper in the country tomorrow? Will you maybe share your thoughts then

It depends: is that further in the future than this moment? Then maybe.
posted by rhizome at 5:15 PM on May 12, 2017


@KenDilanianNBC: A source close to Comey told me this morning: “He hopes there are tapes. That would be perfect.”

It's not good enough yet, but at some point tapes may not matter so much:
MIT Technology Review: Real or Fake? AI Is Making It Very Hard to Know
Thanks to machine learning, it’s becoming easy to generate realistic video, and to impersonate someone.
I mean, we may be able to get something working with cryptographic signatures so that it at least matters in courts that have enough technical sophistication. But this is something that's so horrifying about one of the things which enabled Cheeto Mussolini's rise to power—that even as the internet has given everyone a university library in their pockets, the conservative propaganda system in recent decades has relied on training their base to ignore any objective source of information.

At the point in the future when it becomes possible to not just easily make fake news sites, but completely false synthetic versions of audio and video evidence, society as a whole will probably be more poorly prepared than we would've been back when everything was on paper, before you could pull up scientific journal articles and court records going back hundreds of years on your phone at a moment's notice.
posted by XMLicious at 5:17 PM on May 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


Could any of you have predicted how this 100 some odd days have gone?

Pretty sure a lot of us did.
posted by biogeo at 5:18 PM on May 12, 2017 [24 favorites]


Hey member when Gee Dubz was going to be the most reviled, worst preznit in history?

I'm having a lot of problems with my own internal revisionist history about the W presidency. Please tell me I'm not alone. 2008 me would never think that 2017 me would have thoughts like 'oh it was bad but not that bad LOL John Ashcroft hates calico cats and covered up boobies on statues and LOL Dick Cheney and his mechanical heart shot someone in the face and he got apologized TO.' I mean WTF, fluttering hellfire.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:18 PM on May 12, 2017 [36 favorites]


I'd popped over to fox website because of some comments here, and the tone is dramatically different than when I'd taken a look yesterday.

It's a dramatic shift considering 12 hours agothey weren't discussing this as news at all.

Its the first sign I've seen of straight up fracturing in the trump narrative to it's target audience.
posted by AlexiaSky at 5:19 PM on May 12, 2017 [37 favorites]


Donald Trump Was Bailed Out of Bankruptcy by Russia Crime Bosses (archive.org link, from Jan 10, 2017)

Among the powerful facts that DNI missed were a series of very deep studies published in the [Financial Times] that examined the structure and history of several major Trump real estate projects from the last decade—the period after his seventh bankruptcy and the cancellation of all his bank lines of credit. ...

The money to build these projects flowed almost entirely from Russian sources. In other words, after his business crashed, Trump was floated and made to appear to operate a successful business enterprise through the infusion of hundreds in millions of cash from dark Russian sources.

He was their man.


What, Russian murder rape and drug money isn't "becoming" for a "President" of a "democratic republic"? Ayyy - 'scuze me, Mr. I'm-too-good-to-subvert-justice. Hyuh. No wonder you lost.
posted by petebest at 5:34 PM on May 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


John Ashcroft hates calico cats

What the hell? Who could honestly hate this little cutie?
posted by Talez at 5:34 PM on May 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


"I am the State."

Say what you want about Louie, but he took the resultant level of responsibility, could appreciate high quality craftsmanship and was a man with some level of taste.

Trump is more "I did that, I'm bigly. That thing you don't like? That was done by Meredith. I don't know why I keep her around. Anyway, what I'm doing next is going to be amazing. A. Maz. Ing. You won't even be able to believe it. Did I ever tell you I met Demi Moore once? That was before she was fat. A terrible waste. Terrible. What were we talking about?"
posted by jaduncan at 5:46 PM on May 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


@OfficialRCCola We've sold more cola than any of our competitors #WithFewExceptions 😉

The President of the United States is now being trolled by the Dr. Pepper Snapple Group.

In more serious news, Sen. Feinstein has called for Rosenstein to resign if he won't appoint a special counsel (full statement)

And: WaPo—Comey associates dispute Trump’s account of conversations. This brings up an issue that has been reported a few places, that the White House has complained for months that they want FBI to investigate leaks of nonclassified information, which the FBI refuses to do.
posted by zachlipton at 5:50 PM on May 12, 2017 [62 favorites]


I for one am shocked that the FBI will not devote resources to investigating conduct that all parties agree has no criminal element.
posted by jaduncan at 5:52 PM on May 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


Trump Fires Comey: A Screenplay in 5 Acts
The 48 hours after FBI director James Comey was fired could 
rival the best fictional screenwriting. So, we figured, 
we’re in Los Angeles, why not turn the story of President Trump 
ousting Comey into a screenplay.

All of the descriptions and quotes you’re about to read are, in fact, real.
[Los Angeles Times]
posted by carsonb at 5:53 PM on May 12, 2017 [26 favorites]


Say what you want about Louie, but he took the resultant level of responsibility, could appreciate high quality craftsmanship and was a man with some level of taste.

TRUMP 2020: I Will Give You Cake Which I Will Let You Eat
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:57 PM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Who told Trump he was in the clear? Not us, key senators say
Just hours after White House spokesman Sean Spicer said President Trump had received assurances from a key senator that the idea of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia was a “hoax,” a spokesman for the senator, Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, denied any such conversation.

“Sen. Grassley has not spoken to President Trump about what he has learned in briefings related to investigations into Russian interference in our elections, and he has never referred to the notion of collusion as a ‘hoax,’” Grassley’s spokesman, Taylor Foy, emailed Yahoo News. Grassley is the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee and together with ranking minority member Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., has been briefed on details of the FBI investigation into Russian meddling in last year’s presidential election.

Foy’s statement seemed to directly contradict Spicer’s remarks earlier Friday, raising new questions about the credibility of White House accounts of the firing of FBI Director James Comey. “I think the president’s comments about Russia and collusion have been very clear with respect to some of the charges that have been made,” Spicer said. “He’s been very clear that he believes that the notion there’s collusion is a hoax. It’s been reaffirmed by several people, including Sen. Grassley and others who have spoke to him.”
Chuck Grassley refusing to let Spicer lie about him is really not a good sign for Trump at all. It's also not good for Spicer.

And: New York Times publisher sends personal appeal to those who canceled over Bret Stephens. The fact that they're going to such lengths could lead one to believe that a surprising number of people cancelled their subscriptions. How long before the Times realizes that Bret Stephens isn't worth it?
posted by zachlipton at 6:03 PM on May 12, 2017 [44 favorites]


A friend who used to be a prosecutor just mentioned that if his head investigator had been invited to dinner by the target of the investigation he would probably seek an electronic communication warrant to allow the investigator to wear a wire. Maybe Comey made a tape...? How outrageous would that be?
posted by caddis at 6:04 PM on May 12, 2017 [22 favorites]


2008 me would never think that 2017 me would have thoughts like 'oh it was bad but not that bad LOL John Ashcroft hates calico cats and covered up boobies on statues and LOL Dick Cheney and his mechanical heart shot someone in the face and he got apologized TO.' I mean WTF, fluttering hellfire.

My local library is officially Fighting the Good Fight and putting on a series of lectures about the importance of democracy.

The next one features Condalisa Rice.

And you know what I thought to myself? That she was an educated woman and knew what she was doing. And, compared to what we have now, she'd be an improvement.

That Overton window keeps moving, fast.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 6:05 PM on May 12, 2017 [27 favorites]


I'd popped over to fox website because of some comments here, and the tone is dramatically different than when I'd taken a look yesterday.

Counterpoint: while I was at the gym a few hours ago, the lower third read "Will Hillary Clinton be indicted?"
posted by Room 101 at 6:06 PM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Age of Trump is producing more black gun owners
A friend of mine was convinced after the election was convinced to tool up, because "you know they're gonna outlaw black people having guns."

Someone tell the NRA. They might support background checks now.
An older coworker of mine who grew up in Austin told me a story about an NRA meeting where a whole bunch of Open Carrying Rambo-types were made extremely uncomfortable by a bunch of Panthers who showed up, to the point of whining about it to the Association. A good chunk of the modern NRA is full of people who are straight up Turner Diaries LARPers.
posted by aspersioncast at 6:07 PM on May 12, 2017 [42 favorites]


Maybe Comey made a tape...?

I just assumed at first that that's kind of what Trump meant - that he was assuming that Comey was wearing a wire to tape him. But that's kind of a silly thing to assume about someone just coming over for dinner (for normal people anyway), so it feels like that gets into a very potent and likely Trump's Mirror situation really quickly .
posted by LionIndex at 6:09 PM on May 12, 2017


You know, between the Comey/Trump tape and the potential Trump pee tape, the best part about this entire situation is that no physical tape technology is actually involved.

Data should be free :(
posted by Donald Trump Sex Nightmare at 6:14 PM on May 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


A good chunk of the modern NRA is full of people who are straight up Turner Diaries LARPers.

Read up on the Cincinnati Revolt sometime - white supremacists with dodgy histories with guns basically took the NRA over in a coup.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:14 PM on May 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


New York Times publisher sends personal appeal to those who canceled over Bret Stephens.

I got one of those! And drew the same conclusion - that a lot of people canceled for this reason and told them so.
posted by Glinn at 6:25 PM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


The next one features Condalisa Rice.

And you know what I thought to myself? That she was an educated woman and knew what she was doing. And, compared to what we have now, sh


You know what? Fuck Condaleeza Rice. She's a fucking Russia expert. That she has not found it necessary to speak up at all about any of this ever is shameful. And compared to what we have now she is still the person who is at the heart of the "Bin Ladin Determind To Strike The Us" memo bullshit.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:26 PM on May 12, 2017 [42 favorites]


>Trump’s Expected Pick for Top USDA Scientist is not a Scientist

We keep thinking Trump is so uninterested in agriculture that he'll forget us, but I guess we're wrong.
posted by acrasis at 6:30 PM on May 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


Goldman Sachs: "The estimated costs of federal regulation are fairly modest." Gutting regulations won't actually have much impact on the economy or jobs, except for banks.
posted by zachlipton at 6:33 PM on May 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


>Trump’s Expected Pick for Top USDA Scientist is not a Scientist

It's got electrolytes!
posted by Omon Ra at 6:34 PM on May 12, 2017 [23 favorites]


Trump’s Expected Pick for Top USDA Scientist is not a Scientist

Oh he has no idea who that is or what the USDA does. "Trump's pick" is just Göebbelspeak for "some 25-year-old dipshit ratfucker who was raised by assholes."
posted by petebest at 6:35 PM on May 12, 2017 [13 favorites]


I'm a gun owner who is in favor of nearly any form of gun control, but I don't begrudge people deciding to buy a gun after a lifetime of opposing them. I was the same way. But assuming most people are getting them for defensive purposes, I really, really hope they 1) take a gun safety class and 2) have an instructor like mine who showed me how stupidly easy it would be for someone to disarm me. My gun, originally bought for defense, has always been kept locked away, unloaded, and is only used for target practice at the firing range.

Buy your guns, oppose the NRA, but omg please be careful.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:39 PM on May 12, 2017 [51 favorites]


New York Times publisher sends personal appeal to those who canceled over Bret Stephens.

Good. This is how you know it's working. It's supposed to be a capitalist utopia or whatever the fuck we live in now, voting with dollars is the only language they can understand.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:42 PM on May 12, 2017 [15 favorites]


Nixon went on Laugh-In, for pete's sake.

not only did he go on laugh-in, he went on laugh-in and invited the whole tv-watching country to "sock it to me!"

eventually we did.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:49 PM on May 12, 2017 [14 favorites]


Trump is just the crusty buboe, the symptom of a horror of a plague that is the republican party.

The republican party...serves no purpose at all. It is very literally a disease. It does not even serve itself. It produces nothing. It helps nothing. It is a cult of destruction and every single member is sick and depraved.

They have, however, mastered the most basic form of tribalism and base human instinct...HATE.

My question is, and this has to happen for us to survive, HOW TO WE INOCULATE AGAINST HATE? Racism, misogyny, sexism etc?

I've witnessed terrorism first hand when I lived in Southern Europe and I quickly understood why it occurs. People terrorize when they are fucked over, impoverished and uneducated/uninformed. That's always the formula. That's what's happened here in the U.S.

As far back as the early 1980s I already knew the solution to terrorism and extremism...and it's much less expensive than warfare and combat. It starts with healthcare and education. (That is what I learned from the EXPERTS at the time.) The very goddamn thing republicans are working so hard to take away from U.S. citizens.

I honestly have no idea what they're tying to accomplish (aside from serve their corporate overlords). They're just spoilers, they get off on pain and suffering. They're evil. They are the enemy. They are very literally terrorists.

Trump may very well end up in prison, but that is by no means the end of republican tyranny. They and their propaganda wing, Fox news need to be taken down and destroyed.

TL/DR Really fuck those republican assholes HARD!
posted by snsranch at 6:50 PM on May 12, 2017 [35 favorites]




People terrorize when they are fucked over, impoverished and uneducated/uninformed. That's always the formula. That's what's happened here in the U.S.

I mean...the American terrorist tradition is basically the klan, which wasn't so much about people in the klan getting fucked over...
posted by schadenfrau at 7:02 PM on May 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


Chuck Grassley refusing to let Spicer lie about him is really not a good sign for Trump at all. It's also not good for Spicer.

Holy shit I get to send a thank you message to Grassley?

I mean I don't really mean "thank you" and more like "about goddamn time you did something that meets the bare minimum of right", but, carrot/stick.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:06 PM on May 12, 2017 [14 favorites]


Roll Call: Freedom Caucus May Push for More Than Tax Overhaul in Next Budget

Republicans are getting increasingly nervous, I bet at some point they panic, go for broke and pass as much legislation as possible and approve as many judges as possible before Trump quits or is impeached.
posted by msalt at 7:12 PM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


Dear Chuck,

Congratulations on not being as asshole today.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:13 PM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


I didn’t think podia were street legal.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:15 PM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:00 AM on May 12
posted by Room 101 at 6:06 PM on May 12
posted by Room 641-A at 6:39 PM on May 12

I think this is the first time I've noticed us all together in the same place.

Emily Farris @emayfarris: I made a venn diagram to help us understand the people Trump has fired and the people investigating Trump.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:16 PM on May 12, 2017 [53 favorites]


WaPo (corrected headline):Treasonous Nazi Gelfling to interview candidates for job of investigating himself
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:52 PM on 5/12
[2 favorites +] [!]


Rust Moranis confirmed Skeksis
posted by J.K. Seazer at 7:16 PM on May 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


mMmm?
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:17 PM on May 12, 2017 [20 favorites]


More articles, any one of them would be horrifying to someone transplanted here from 2015, yet they seem almost ho-hum now.

New Yorker: The Senate Starts to Look at Trump's Businesses
I spoke recently to a longtime business associate of Donald Trump’s, and asked his thoughts about the various investigations into collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government. He laughed and said that there is no way Trump could have been part of such a conspiracy. “He couldn’t sit through the meeting,” the associate said. This is a character analysis I’ve heard from several people who have worked with Trump, one that seems confirmed daily by the President’s statements and tweets: the man doesn’t go in for complex, long-term plans. He likes quick, tangible results—“something shiny,” the associate told me. “Right away.”
NYT: ‘Looking Like a Liar or a Fool’: What It Means to Work for Trump, which also contains the detail that Trump got mad at Giuliani for defending him after the pussy tape came out, "arguing that he wanted to attack Hillary Clinton, not play defense."
The president, said Newt Gingrich, the former House speaker, “resembles a quarterback who doesn’t call a huddle and gets ahead of his offensive line so nobody can block him and defend him because nobody knows what the play is.”...“At some point, I hope he’s going to learn that taking one extra day, having the entire team lined up. I don’t think he always helps himself. I think 10 percent less Trump would be a hundred percent more effective.”
...
Mr. Trump is growing increasingly dissatisfied with the performance of his chief of staff, Reince Priebus; the communications director, Michael Dubke; and Mr. Spicer, a Priebus ally, according to a half-dozen West Wing officials who said the president was considering the most far-reaching shake-up of his already tumultuous term.

He has been especially critical of Mr. Spicer, they said, openly musing about replacing him and telling people in his circle that he kept his own press secretary out of the loop in dismissing Mr. Comey until the last possible moment because he feared that the communications staff would leak the news.
NYT: TV Titan Requires Its Stations to Air Segments That Roil Its Staff
They are called “must-runs,” and they arrive every day at television stations owned by the Sinclair Broadcast Group — short video segments that are centrally produced by the company. Station managers around the country are directed to work them into the broadcast over a period of 24 or 48 hours.

Since November 2015, Sinclair has ordered its stations to run a daily segment from a “Terrorism Alert Desk” with updates on terrorism-related news around the world. During the election campaign last year, it sent out a package that suggested in part that voters should not support Hillary Clinton because the Democratic Party was historically pro-slavery. More recently, Sinclair asked stations to run a short segment in which Scott Livingston, the company’s vice president for news, accused the national news media of publishing “fake news stories.”
posted by zachlipton at 7:29 PM on May 12, 2017 [30 favorites]


The Age of Trump is producing more black gun owners

Someone tell the NRA. They might support background checks now.


There's no better way to defang the NRA than for every black person to start carrying a gun.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:33 PM on May 12, 2017 [18 favorites]


{hugs quonsar}
posted by theora55 at 7:36 PM on May 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


I picked the wrong regeneration to quit drinking.
posted by vrakatar at 7:42 PM on May 12, 2017 [15 favorites]


Maybe Comey made a tape...?

I think the Mangled Apricot Hellbeast was referring to his belief that he himself is being "wire tapped" by Obama. Yes, I believe he is that crazy.
posted by Mental Wimp at 7:48 PM on May 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


NYT: TV Titan Requires Its Stations to Air Segments That Roil Its Staff

Fuck Sinclair. Never felt better about quitting a job than I did when our station got bought by Sinclair and we got a good look at how they operated. Bringing back stronger broadcast regulations as they stood before the Telecommunications Act of 1996 and the elimination of the Fairness Doctrine needs to be a prominent part of any serious progressive platform. Sinclair and other local media conglomerates are a poison in less populated areas with limited local news and a huge part of why things are the way they are right now.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:54 PM on May 12, 2017 [39 favorites]


I just looked up to see which Pittsburgh stations are owned by Sinclair and currently it's just FOX and a weird UHF channel. I hope they stay the fuck out.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:59 PM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


If we're speculating about Donnie's personal recording device, I'd imagine it's an old MiniDisc recorder. They were super futuristic back in the early 90's - when he might still have had the capacity to learn how to use a new handheld device - but proprietariness, and ultimately, solid state media killed it.

I'd also imagine that Donnie imagines himself "the most clever" because, like a dog he isn't using "tape" to do the "tapping" on anyone.

Would not be surprised if there weren't banks upon banks of minidisc recordings a la the 8mm cassettes in American Beauty.
posted by porpoise at 7:59 PM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


From Wikipedia:
Headquartered in Hunt Valley, Maryland, [Sinclair] is the second-largest television station operator in the United States [...] by number of stations, and largest by total coverage; owning and/or operating a total of 173 stations across the country (233 after all currently proposed sales are approved) in over 100 markets (covering 40% of American households), many of which are located in the South and Midwest.
I don't think I say this often enough: fuck the Telecommunications Act of 1996.
posted by galaxy rise at 8:07 PM on May 12, 2017 [38 favorites]


I would like to turn my attention to doing virtually anything else right now, but the hits just keep on coming. The theme here is that we don't need a Russia smoking gun. There are plenty of things to investigate, and lots of people who can investigate them. Follow the money on Trump's businesses, Manafort, etc..., and plenty of dirty business is bound to come up. And remember that Felix Sater is off running a scam where he's demanding millions of dollars or he'll hurt Trump. There are a lot of shoes that can drop that don't involve the FBI.

One ominous signal I've been seeing is the recent effort of the White House to try to compartmentalize things. That's the Trump Organization, that was the campaign, this is Trump now, they're all completely different things in their eyes. For example, in the Lester Holt interview, Trump made a big point of saying: "I know that I'm not under investigation -- me, personally. I'm not talking about campaigns. I'm not talking about anything else. I'm not under investigation." Why go to such great pains to make that distinction? Because they know there are all sorts of things around Trump that are being investigated, all sorts of things around him that are dirty, but as long as nobody personally hands him a subpoena with his name on it, he'll do what he's done his entire life and shift the blame to someone else.

And why not? Blaming his underlings has worked out great for him so far. And the question is whether we'll let him get away with it as President. Because he's so far treated the office that originated "the buck stops here" as a joke in which everyone around him is constantly letting him down. We saw that today, he's not blatantly contradicting his staff; he's just so "active" that his staff just can't find out what's true. Everything is someone else's fault, from Meredith McIver to Mike Flynn to Sean Spicer. If and when the shit really starts to hit the fan and his companies, his campaign staff, his White House staff are being directly accused of crimes, how many times can he hide behind "well, it's not me personally that's under investigation?" I suspect we're going to find out.

And with that introduction, and I apologize for turning into Rachel Maddow on you for a moment, the articles:

Former Trump Adviser Paul Manafort’s Bank Records Sought in Probe (as a sidenote, the timing of this leak certainly looks like it could be revenge for Comey)
The Justice Department last month requested banking records of Paul Manafort as part of a widening of probes related to President Donald Trump’s former campaign associates and whether they colluded with Russia in interfering with the 2016 election, according to people familiar with the matter.
...
Separately, investigators for New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman as well as Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr. also have been examining real-estate transactions by Mr. Manafort, who has spent and borrowed tens of millions of dollars in connection with property across the U.S. over the past decade, people familiar with the matter say. The request for Mr. Manafort’s banking records and the New York inquiries haven’t previously been reported.
On a highly related note, Maddow had a story tonight: "contrary to popular belief, former Donald Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort has not registered as a foreign agent, and the DoJ won't say if A.G. Jeff Sessions is recused on Manafort matters" (it's about 14 minutes into the video)

And this is a good little thread from the New Yorker's Adam Davidson. There are a lot of non-Russia bodies buried too, and folks are closing in:
1. With news that Senate and FBI are seeking Fincen data, likely that many Trump Org staff are fearful.
2. They have done a lot of deals with minimal due diligence with a lot of sketchy characters.
3. Trump Org staff could be exposed to a bunch of indictments: FCPA, money laundering, sanctions violations.
4. If they start to flip, investigators could find a lot of non-Russia-related behavior that could be illegal.
5. Aside from the kids, the folks who surely know a lot: Jason Greenblatt, former General Counsel, now at WH, and Allen Weisselberg.
6. There are dozens of former staffers who hate Trump but fear leaking because of NDAs.
7. Once FBI and Senate subpoena them, they will hear about a lot that requires investigation even if not connected to Russia and election.
8. Much of that activity is in other jurisdictions: New York State and City. U.K. if, as seems likely, money flowed through there.
9. Miami, with its notoriously tough and independent U.S. Attorneys.
10. I would not be surprised to see, within months, pardons for family and associates.
11. The Trump Org worked in many of the legally riskiest businesses there are: casinos, NY and Miami real estate, oligarch trophy projects.
12. Even by the standards of those businesses, they had minimal due diligence, high tolerance for risk. Shocking if nothing is found.
posted by zachlipton at 8:18 PM on May 12, 2017 [58 favorites]


Is that why he stands so close to people?
posted by erisfree at 8:27 PM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]




I'd be shocked if he doesn't routinely use the voice recorder on his phone to record conversations almost all the time as a matter of course.

I'd be surprised if he uses it for anything except "Phone" or "Twitter"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:29 PM on May 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


And remember that Felix Sater is off running a scam where he's demanding millions of dollars or he'll hurt Trump.

I've been wondering where that guy slunk off to lately. He's dirty as hell and seems to be the minor player trying to make it big type, but the fact that he's a known former FBI informant makes me think he's really one to keep an eye on.

Wishful thinking, but his Carter Page-like inability to get out of the way (see the Ukraine "peace plan" he was involved in shopping around at the worst moment) makes me think about the FBI's shady history of using agents provocateurs to get things moving. I don't think that's likely to be the situation here (and I kind of hope not because it would be latched onto as a dirty trick by Trump and his defenders trying to weasel out), but if anyone were to be making that play, he's the guy for it and his behavior tracks.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:31 PM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


>I assume he has someone who can do this for him, who sets up his phone or the taping equipment or whatever . . . there's an underling for this.

Meredith!

( . . . again)
posted by flug at 8:46 PM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]




Among the powerful facts that DNI missed were a series of very deep studies published in the [Financial Times] that examined the structure and history of several major Trump real estate projects from the last decade—the period after his seventh bankruptcy and the cancellation of all his bank lines of credit. ...

Somehow I don't think this is getting missed by FinCEN. That's who they are.
posted by scalefree at 9:01 PM on May 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


You know, between the Comey/Trump tape and the potential Trump pee tape, the best part about this entire situation is that no physical tape technology is actually involved.

I assure you, it's not a real piss party until the physical tape technology gets involved
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:05 PM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


I haven't had time to watch this yet, but a Dutch documentary is up on YouTube that claims to investigate Trump/Russia connections and finds smoke, if not fire, in terms of mobsters and money laundering.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 9:11 PM on May 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


PSA!

How to Comment on Trump's National Monument Review

Link goes to Modern Hiker and has a great write-up about which National Monuments are under review, what considerations the Secretary of the Interior is using, and the reasoning for the change in designation (spoiler: oil, gas, and coal). There are links and addresses and some helpful suggestions for comments.

Comments related to Bears Ears National Monument must be submitted before May 26, 2017. Comments relating to all other National Monuments must be submitted before July 10,2017.
posted by chaoticgood at 9:15 PM on May 12, 2017 [33 favorites]


Does anyone else get the sense that this situation is deteriorating rapidly? That people might want to leave this White House and return to their previous lives?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:16 PM on May 12, 2017 [17 favorites]


I normally don't make bets, but if I was a betting person I would bet money that Sean Spicer is fired RIGHT before SNL goes on the air, making them totally unable to add that into the show at the dead last minute.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:18 PM on May 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


And remember that Felix Sater is off running a scam where he's demanding millions of dollars or he'll hurt Trump.

The excellent and ongoing English-language "The Dubious Friends of Donald Trump" episodes (Part One: The Russians, Part Two: King of Diamonds) of the Dutch documentary series Zembla, which have been linked to in recent threads, provide good explanations of Bayrock's involvement and one of their reporters actually manages to track down Sater himself.

Sater just says "Please submit any questions to my lawyer in writing," but it's like catching a glimpse of a boggart. (Or a domovoi, I suppose, given the Russian connection.)

On preview, as CheeseDigestsAll points out they've been uploaded to Youtube: 1, 2.
posted by XMLicious at 9:22 PM on May 12, 2017 [11 favorites]




If you're into the whole Bayrock saga, DCReport (that's David Cay Johnston's outfit) published The Kazakhstan Connection: Trump, Bayrock And Plenty Of Questions today.

Also, I buried one detail that was in today's NYT White House dysfunction story: "Mr. Gingrich, who is working on a biography of Mr. Trump." Ugh.
posted by zachlipton at 9:26 PM on May 12, 2017 [11 favorites]


"Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce."

- Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Napoleon (1852)



Or in modern parlance: history repeats, first as WTF, then as LOL.
posted by the duck by the oboe at 9:29 PM on May 12, 2017 [30 favorites]


It is as if he's trying to make a case for criminal impeachment and/or 25th amendmenting at the same time. I've had acid trips that make more sense than the narrative coming out of the white house right now.
posted by vrakatar at 9:33 PM on May 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


Interesting detail in NYTimes story:
Mr. Comey made no comment, but later in the day he declined a request to testify before the Senate Intelligence Committee on Tuesday. According to a close associate of Mr. Comey, he is willing to testify, but wants it to be in public.
popcorn futures, where do i buy them?
posted by localhuman at 9:34 PM on May 12, 2017 [111 favorites]


I've been hearing the same, Comey will testify but only in open session.
posted by Justinian at 9:36 PM on May 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


Going To Maine posted this back in February, but it's worth revisiting for those who missed it: @UnsureTrump is a bot that does nothing but replace @RealDonaldTrump's !'s with ?'s.
China just agreed that the U.S. will be allowed to sell beef, and other major products, into China once again. This is REAL news?

James Comey better hope that there are no "tapes" of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:42 PM on May 12, 2017 [17 favorites]


I was really deflated when I heard about Comey declining the Senate's invite. Thanks for pointing this out!
posted by Room 641-A at 10:08 PM on May 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


This week's Weekly Address still features those weird, distracting camera angles.
posted by christopherious at 10:11 PM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Mr. Gingrich, who is working on a biography of Mr. Trump." Ugh.

I'm surprised it isn't Bill O'Reilly. He's an author in need of a job. He could call the book "Killing Democracy".
posted by Gary at 10:19 PM on May 12, 2017 [11 favorites]


It also features our weird, distracting President.
posted by guiseroom at 10:19 PM on May 12, 2017 [6 favorites]




Think I'm gonna name my new solo project "A Source Close to James Comey"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:57 PM on May 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


ima subscribe to the nyt just so i can cancel due to the climate fuckface
posted by j_curiouser at 11:00 PM on May 12, 2017 [13 favorites]


Speaking of Nixon, I've been glancing through a few old Doonesbury Watergate strips over at the GoComics archive. Some of them fit the Trump era just as well, such as this 1973 glimpse into Sean Spicer's press room and this 1974 depiction of a White House under seige.

Unfortunately, I can't find my favourite Watergate Doonesbury strip of all - one which ends with a speechballoon above the White House reading "Come and get me, copper".
posted by Paul Slade at 11:03 PM on May 12, 2017 [20 favorites]


It's pretty clear the source close to James Comey is Comey wearing a mustache and making his phone voice gravelly.

[Insert "I like the way Snrub thinks!" joke here]
posted by Chrysostom at 11:05 PM on May 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


I dunno, I think the source close to Comey is prolly "John Miller" posing as "Jeff Approach".
posted by notyou at 11:36 PM on May 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Christopherious, those camera angle switches are bizarre. I am honestly not trying to imply anything, but it's as though it was spliced by a non-English speaker who was attempting to find the break between phrases (and failed).
posted by samthemander at 11:56 PM on May 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Fox is getting surprising.

Does Donald Trump want to be president?
Bellwether wonders whether Trump actually plans to stay in office for four years. Could he be considering a shorter stay in the White House, passing the baton to the widely respected Vice President Mike Pence? Might Trump feel that if and when he achieves his major goals – tighter borders, lower taxes, more American-made goods – he can declare victory and return to his successful career in the private sector?

[...]

Trump is slowly accomplishing his mission. If he plans to walk away from Washington once he feels he has fulfilled his promise to the American people, he should say so. Both his supporters and his growing list of opponents would probably respect his candor, and they might work together to give him what he wants, so he will go away.
Maybe one step away from the dreaded vote of confidence.
posted by jaduncan at 11:56 PM on May 12, 2017 [28 favorites]


Aside from being facepalmingly stupid about so many things, that editorial from Fox News Exec VP John Moody sounds like it's trying to talk Trump into quitting. Maybe he'll listen.

Also, I'd like to present the 2017 Up With Which I Shall Not Put award for Most Egregious Avoidance of a Preposition at the End of a Sentence to Moody for this one:
The president, in his first four months in office, has accomplished much of which to be proud.
posted by mmoncur at 12:16 AM on May 13, 2017 [21 favorites]


It seems like the end of Trump is finally near. Imagine how this looks from the POV of the congressional Republicans. Most of them didn't like him anyway, so they are probably not sad for him. But they must be confused and worried about what happens now: will Pence be president or does he go with Trump? My guess is that they would prefer Pence, for many reasons but mostly that it is the simple solution. But Trump has been really good at getting Pence out there to front, and it may be impossible to not indict Pence as well.
With president Ryan, who is the VP, and who is the new speaker? The whole party will be in free fall, and Ryan won't have the authority to lead. How many seats will they loose in 2018? They are scrambling to get voter suppression upgraded, but do they have enough time for that before everything crashes?
And they can't talk freely about any of these scenarios, because if anything leaks, the ball will start running way to fast for them to stop it running away.

I really hope the resistance and the Democratic party are ready for what is coming, so we don't get another Jimmy Carter situation.
posted by mumimor at 12:31 AM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


How much do you have to pay someone to write, "the widely respected Vice President Mike Pence."
posted by notyou at 12:34 AM on May 13, 2017 [75 favorites]


It seems like the end of Trump is finally near.

Surely this!
posted by Justinian at 12:37 AM on May 13, 2017 [14 favorites]


Surely this!

More like: if Fox can't hold it together anymore, everyone is going to look for the exit. Going out to buy popcorn and soft drinks now, to be ready for when you all wake up in the morning
posted by mumimor at 1:04 AM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


How much do you have to pay someone to write, "the widely respected Vice President Mike Pence."

Well, he did apologize for bopping that kid in the face. Cheney shot a guy in the face and the guy apologized to him.

"Let them hate, so long as they fear," would seem to be the apposite line.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:14 AM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


Looking Like a Liar or a Fool’: What It Means to Work for Trump, posted by zachlipton way up there is a good reminder that you are a huge idiot if you choose to work for Trump. Not just because of his (lack of) politics or visions, but also because of his management style: you know you will be humiliated, forced into complicity, underpaid and fed meatloaf. Do these people not do any research before applying for (or accepting) these shitty jobs?
posted by mumimor at 1:28 AM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump NOT Briefed By Navy On Ford Catapult; Loves ‘Goddamned Steam’ Anyway
WASHINGTON: President Donald Trump may have a clear preference for a “goddamned steam” catapult on the USS Ford and its successors, but his opinion is not based on any detailed Navy briefing about the ship, according to Sean Stackley, acting Navy Secretary. Trump may have derived his remarkably insightful observations about the Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) from his March 2 visit to the Ford.
posted by XMLicious at 1:55 AM on May 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


Since Trump is clearly no mastermind, his impeachment or resignation on its own is no longer enough to make me feel any safer (not that I think it is at all clear that such a thing is imminent. Laughing with Lavrov like that...)

If Sessions goes down with him, that will be a more important sign that the coup attempt has failed.

If McConnell goes down for enabling all this and standing in the way of an independent investigation, then I will be willing to believe we are really out of the woods.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:00 AM on May 13, 2017 [32 favorites]


the Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS)
Now can we start saying "but his EMALS"???
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:03 AM on May 13, 2017 [46 favorites]


US presidential line of succession: Pence, Ryan, Hatch, Tillerson, Mnuchin, Mattis, Sessions, Zinke, Perdue, Ross, Acosta, Price, Carson, Chao, Perry, DeVos, Shulkin, Kelly.
posted by christopherious at 2:16 AM on May 13, 2017 [10 favorites]


So, Chao for presidential succession?!
posted by AlexiaSky at 2:20 AM on May 13, 2017


Nope, she's the one exception (not eligible, must be must be a natural-born U.S. citizen).
posted by christopherious at 2:23 AM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


Another reason the midterms are so important. Wouldn't it be nice if the list went:
2) Pelosi
posted by Justinian at 3:06 AM on May 13, 2017 [50 favorites]


The newspaper headline was very depressing, but I was grateful for the chuckle provided by the Ben Franklin quotation flanked by photographs of Putin and Trump heading today's copy of the Pakistan Observer.
posted by bardophile at 3:20 AM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


The original party line on Comey firing was "he mishandled the Clinton investigation". But what did they mean? Did they mean Comey mistreated Clinton in the last days of the election as Democrats feel? Or that Comey failed to find indict Clinton, as the Republicans feel? Which was it? My belief based on what I read is it was both, simultaneously, a separate story for each audience. Which is sort of clever in its evilness. Not that any of this matters now that Trump blew up the official story, mind you.

I've been following the news while on vacation in Europe and it's very weird being not home as yet another self-inflicted crisis of despotism unfolds. Seeing things 8 hours out of sync gives me these giant bursts of news, where I wake up in the morning and see what fresh horrors unfolded in the American evening and when I go to bed at night I'm seeing stuff as it happens in the US daytime news cycle. Being out of sync this way makes this all seem even less real. Like this can't possibly be happening in America, right?
posted by Nelson at 3:36 AM on May 13, 2017 [16 favorites]


You ain't seen nothing yet.
posted by sour cream at 4:54 AM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


Like this can't possibly be happening in America, right?

I recommend saving your remaining this-can't-possibly-be-happening-in-Americas for when the real bad stuff starts.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:54 AM on May 13, 2017 [10 favorites]


Sooooo, no tweeting this morning? Feels...ominous?
posted by double bubble at 4:59 AM on May 13, 2017


The non-tweet speaks for itself.
posted by meinvt at 5:03 AM on May 13, 2017 [19 favorites]


Vice: Democrats Can't Do Much to Punish Trump for Firing Comey - "That doesn't mean they won't try."
posted by ZeusHumms at 5:05 AM on May 13, 2017


Ooh! Ooh! I suggested above that Dan Ackroyd return to SNL as Nixon's ghost. Then Bill Murray and Melissa McCarthy come in as Ghostbusters.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:22 AM on May 13, 2017 [31 favorites]


And they capture Trump with their plasma beams. And Nixon takes over, this being his long term plan.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:25 AM on May 13, 2017 [8 favorites]


Aroo!
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:26 AM on May 13, 2017 [15 favorites]


Pence, Ryan, Hatch, Tillerson, Mnuchin, Mattis, Sessions, Zinke, Perdue, Ross, Acosta, Price, Carson, Chao, Perry, DeVos, Shulkin, Kelly.

What's that look like when you remove the people compromised by Russia?
posted by mikelieman at 5:40 AM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


Well, yeah, that you have to remove ALL of them does present a problem.
posted by Artw at 5:46 AM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


What's that look like when you remove the people compromised by Russia?

Pence, Ryan, Hatch, Tillerson, Mnuchin, Mattis, Sessions, Zinke, Perdue, Ross, Acosta, Price, Carson, Chao, Perry, DeVos, Shulkin, Kelly, Putin.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:50 AM on May 13, 2017 [23 favorites]


Fox News: No proof Putin compromised by Russia
posted by guiseroom at 5:54 AM on May 13, 2017 [50 favorites]


I searched the last thread and didn't see this.

The Defense Security Service* tweeted this last week, with a photo of the White House:

Defense Security Svc @DSSPublicAffair
May is National Mental Health Awareness Month


(Via Jezebel's Shade Court!)

*I had to look them up: "The Defense Security Service supports national security and the warfighter, secures the nation's technological base, and oversees the protection of US and foreign classified information in the hands of industry".
posted by Room 641-A at 6:09 AM on May 13, 2017 [10 favorites]


AP: After Comey firing, Trump’s frustrations boiled over:Several people close to the president say his reliance on a small cadre of advisers as he mulled firing Comey reflects his broader distrust of many of his own staffers. He leans heavily on daughter Ivanka Trump and son-in-law Jared Kusher, as well as Hope Hicks, his trusted campaign spokeswoman and Keith Schiller, his longtime bodyguard. Schiller was among those Trump consulted about Comey and was tapped by the president to deliver a letter informing the director of his firing.

Trump confidants say Bannon has been marginalized on major decisions, including Comey’s firing, after clashing with Kushner. And while Trump praised chief of staff Reince Priebus after the House passed a health care bill last week, associates say the president has continued to raise occasional questions about Priebus’ leadership in the West Wing.

Trump spent most of the week out of sight, a marked change from a typically jam-packed schedule that often includes multiple on-camera events per day. Even when aides moved ahead on an executive order creating a voter fraud commission — a presidential pet project that some advisers thought they had successfully shelved — Trump signed the directive in private.

posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:10 AM on May 13, 2017 [21 favorites]


in modern parlance: history repeats, first as WTF, then as LOL.

Or even postmodern: the first time as 😡, the second time as 🤡.
posted by spitbull at 6:19 AM on May 13, 2017 [10 favorites]


No tweet this morning means Ivanka is working a rare Saturday shift. Some things are more important than pretending to be a person of faith.
posted by spitbull at 6:21 AM on May 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


Someone must have done an Emoji translation of Marx by now...💪🏾🌏👬!
posted by spitbull at 6:24 AM on May 13, 2017 [10 favorites]


No tweet this morning means Ivanka is working a rare Saturday shift. Some things are more important than pretending to be a person of faith.

Trump's headed to speak at Liberty University, so he has a captive audience of reporters on AFO.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:39 AM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


Burr: "No evidence of collusion...". Looking a tad worn around the edges there, Dickie. Worried about your own Concord NC "business" fertilizer connections to the sewage pit?

I'm still digging on that one, but suffice it to say NC is a testing ground for more future bullshit as well. See: Art Pope, Bradley Group, Civitas.

Ugh NC. You suck.
posted by yoga at 6:49 AM on May 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


i'd like to think comey would summarily dismantle trump's dumb meatsack bodyguard like how in movies the spies always do to dumb meatsack bodyguards
posted by localhuman at 6:50 AM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump meltdown sets off GOP alarms over 2018 midterm: A three-day party gathering highlights senior Republican officials grappling with a profoundly unstable White House.
In one presentation on the GOP's challenges ahead, the National Republican Congressional Committee’s executive director, John Rogers, pointed out that far more vulnerable Republican incumbents represent districts that Hillary Clinton won than endangered Democratic incumbents in districts that Trump carried. Rogers reminded attendees that midterm elections are historically unkind to the party in the White House.

And he offered a surprisingly gloomy forecast of looming special elections that the party has been favored to win. While the race for a Georgia House seat is a tossup, he said, one in Montana later this month is closer than public polling indicated.

While Republicans have a far more favorable playing field in the Senate, they weren’t overly optimistic about those elections, either. National Republican Senatorial Committee Executive Director Chris Hansen noted at one closed-door briefing that the party was expected to notch big gains in the 2010 midterms but “whiffed,” according to one person present.
posted by chris24 at 6:51 AM on May 13, 2017 [23 favorites]


His fucking personal bodyguard is a trusted advisor.
Agent Meechum?
posted by jferg at 6:54 AM on May 13, 2017 [17 favorites]


i'd like to think comey would summarily dismantle trump's dumb meatsack bodyguard like how in movies the spies always do to dumb meatsack bodyguards

So would I, but as things unravel I'd like even more to know how this bodyguard person influences US politics. He seems to be a thug and an idiot (well, doh, since he's working for Trump), but also perhaps even more influential than Ivanka and Jared.
posted by mumimor at 6:56 AM on May 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


Trump confidants say Bannon has been marginalized on major decisions, including Comey’s firing, after clashing with Kushner.

This is an instance when I'd like to know who those "confidants" are: WH staff? Priebus? Kushner? Who wants the AP to know (or to write) that Bannon's been sidelined? An earlier age called these efforts to infer the motives of the players behind the text "Kremlinology." Rarely has a word been so appropriate.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:58 AM on May 13, 2017 [16 favorites]


You can send a message directly to the deputy attorney general of the US to ask him to appoint an independent counsel to investigate Russia's role in our most recent election campaign.

Choose "message to the deputy attorney general" from the drop down menu which asks you to select the general topic of your message.

Twenty state attorneys general have already done the same...
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:10 AM on May 13, 2017 [38 favorites]


I'd like even more to know how this bodyguard person influences US politics.

A lot, apparently... (The article says that among other things he 'translates' Trump).
posted by Buntix at 7:10 AM on May 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


Inside Trump's Coming War with the FBI
“The statements from the White House that he’d lost the faith of the rank and file—they’re making that up,” says Jeff Ringel, a 21-year F.B.I. veteran who retired in May 2016 and is now director of the Soufan Group. “Agents may not have agreed with everything he did. I was one of the people who thought the director shouldn’t have stepped up and made those public statements about Hillary Clinton. But Director Comey was one of the last honest brokers in D.C. Agents are pissed off at the way he was fired, the total disrespect with which it was handled. It was a slap in the face to the F.B.I., to everybody in the F.B.I. The director being treated terribly, being called incompetent, is a signal that Trump has disdain for the bureau.”
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:11 AM on May 13, 2017 [33 favorites]


So, this random guy is the actual president, right?
posted by Artw at 7:12 AM on May 13, 2017 [11 favorites]


Whoever "translates" his intelligible ramblings is running the country.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:15 AM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


His fucking personal bodyguard is his trusted advisor.
And in the final scene Keith Schiller picks Trump up in his arms and sings And I-I-I-I-I will always love you-u-u-u.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:15 AM on May 13, 2017 [12 favorites]


His fucking personal bodyguard is his trusted advisor.

The writers are stealing plot lines from Veep.
posted by salix at 7:31 AM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Justice Department files request for Paul Manafort’s bank records
The department requested Manafort’s bank records from Citizen Financial Group Inc. in April, according to the Journal. The report added that it was unclear whether that was the only bank from where prosecutors sought Manafort’s records.

Apart from this, New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman and Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr. are looking into real-estate transactions made by Manafort, the Journal reported.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:45 AM on May 13, 2017 [14 favorites]


Whoever "translates" his intelligible ramblings is running the country.

Reminds me of China's leader Deng Xiaoping, who was so frail towards the end of his reign that only his daughter could "understand" his whispered instructions.
For what it's worth, only a couple of years later, Deng was history.

Of course the real power lies in translating the un-intelligible ramblings...
posted by sour cream at 7:51 AM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Wouldn't it be nice if the list went:
2) Pelosi


Darkest timeline evidence right there.
posted by Cookiebastard at 8:10 AM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


When Charlie Stross does performative despair, he really performs.
posted by Coventry at 8:17 AM on May 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


Democrats in Congress should be subtly hinting to their Republican colleagues that impeachment in 2017-18 = President Ryan. Impeachment in 2019 = President Pelosi.
posted by Glibpaxman at 8:18 AM on May 13, 2017 [50 favorites]




Fox is getting surprising.

It's not a sudden outbreak of morals. It IS an interesting bellwether, though. They perceive Trump's foundation of support growing shaky, and they need to lay the groundwork now for maintaining their audience when the GOP does begin to seriously turn against him.
posted by Miko at 8:22 AM on May 13, 2017 [34 favorites]


I bet at some point they panic, go for broke and pass as much legislation as possible and approve as many judges as possible

Yeah but there was an illegal block downfield. All that shit's coming back.

Collusion is an agreement between two or more parties, sometimes illegal and therefore secretive, to limit open competition by deceiving, misleading, or defrauding others of their legal rights . . . In legal terms, all acts effected by collusion are considered void.
posted by petebest at 8:23 AM on May 13, 2017 [12 favorites]


I hear what you're saying Petebest but this is US politics. That's what should happen but I doubt that it will without a shit-ton of effort by the public.
posted by VTX at 8:28 AM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


It won't happen automatically. There's no constitutional provision for this. The next President and Congress will have to fix things.
posted by Glibpaxman at 8:29 AM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


Sinclair and other local media conglomerates are a poison in less populated areas with limited local news and a huge part of why things are the way they are right now.

Preach!
posted by petebest at 8:29 AM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


The moment Democrats gain ground their first instinct is going to be to get bipartisan and forgive the Republucans all their crimes and allow them to keep all their gains. Pressure not to do that will have to be applied.
posted by Artw at 8:29 AM on May 13, 2017 [57 favorites]


Oh yeah, that's definitely not how it works. The checks and balances are the presumsed protection against that. Legislative actions are reversed by legislative processes (even when required by judicial or executive) - they can't just be declared void. In fact it would be a pretty horrifying Republic if they could.
posted by Miko at 8:30 AM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


Agreed, but it does help organize the agenda dunnit.
posted by petebest at 8:32 AM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


The moment Democrats gain ground their first instinct is going to be to

Finish killing Dodd-Frank?
Praise our lord and savior Jesus Christ?
Finally agree pro-choice isn't really a thing anymore?
Accidentally lock-in all the GOP gerrymandering?
Set up a special committee to study the abuses of office under Sean Spicer?
Recruit Lieberman to run for Prez in 2020?

Oh there's more. Heuh. You better believe there's more ways the Dems can refuck everything. Everybody's gotta get saved for Trumpistan to have a positive end result. DNC? Pissed off electorate on line 2.
posted by petebest at 8:41 AM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Collusion is an agreement between two or more parties, sometimes illegal and therefore secretive, to limit open competition by deceiving, misleading, or defrauding others of their legal rights . . . In legal terms, all acts effected by collusion are considered void.
posted by petebest at 8:23 AM on May 13 [5 favorites −] [!]


Oh yes. Regardless of legal or constitutional merit, I want a majority of people thinking it's true before 2018.

Hell, believing it's true on a personal level might help the mushy middle sidestep all of that uncomfortable confronting of the conscience stuff they'd otherwise have to do to come around to being, if not Democratic voters, then anti-Republican voters.

You were lied to! It's not your fault, and you can vote for a do-over!

I'm at critically low emotional labor reserves, but I could maybe find a way to sell that with a cracked smile if it would work.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:41 AM on May 13, 2017 [11 favorites]


Demanding a reset is entirely valid. We can do better than a reset, but it is a start.
posted by Artw at 8:44 AM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


The moment Democrats gain ground their first instinct is going to be to get bipartisan and forgive the Republucans all their crimes and allow them to keep all their gains. Pressure not to do that will have to be applied.

Maybe America's milkwater left needs an infusion of full-blooded Stalinist/Maoist tankies who kick ass and take no prisoners. But then it'd need something to keep the tankies from just filling mass graves with all the liberals (not to mention the handful of anarchists, BLMers, intersectional feminists and socialists of a slightly different stripe), as they did in Spain in the 1930s.
posted by acb at 8:45 AM on May 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


His fucking personal bodyguard is his trusted advisor.

What's a bad guy without henchmen? Jared, Ivanka, and Schiller are the Match, Skinhead, and 3-D of this timeline.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:48 AM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


But then it'd need something to keep the tankies from just filling mass graves with all the liberals (not to mention the handful of anarchists, BLMers, intersectional feminists and socialists of a slightly different stripe), as they did in Spain in the 1930s.

Or Nicaragua in the '80s.
posted by Talez at 8:50 AM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


I don't think a Stalinist uprising from the left is actually a thing we have to worry about.
posted by Artw at 8:51 AM on May 13, 2017 [23 favorites]


Beloved and Respected Comrade Leader Pisspiggrandpa.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:57 AM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Hell, a lot of people didn't think a neofascist uprising from a game-show host was actually a thing we had to worry about, and here we are.
posted by Cookiebastard at 8:59 AM on May 13, 2017 [37 favorites]


I made a mistake, guise.

I thought P.Ryan might want to impeach Trump now before the 2018 in order to install himself as President, but I forgot how young he is-- he is only 47 so he might have another 30 years or more in the government. Plenty of chances to run for higher office.

I'm honestly not too worried who comes after DJT if he does quit or is impeached-- look at Gerald Ford. He was a place-holder who had to bear the brunt of America's ill humor. It's an OK spot if you just want to be a President and don't really care how much power you have have or how you are received by the public. President Ford's portrait still hangs in the White House and he is still listed in the history books even though all I remember about him was that he played a lot of golf and Chevy Chase became famous for mocking his falls.

Take Tillerson, for example. I understand why people would be leery of the CEO of EXXon becoming President but he has shown that he is a non-entity in politics who doesn't understand how to handle the press and has little power in DC. Aside from looking nice, he seems to have zero charisma. In other words I can't see him accomplishing anything.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:00 AM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Mother Jones is crowdfunding their own Russia investigation. Aiming for $500k, and already > 200.

Hell, a lot of people didn't think a neofascist uprising from a game-show host was actually a thing we had to worry about, and here we are.

Ironically, as that was the plot of about 50% of sci-fi in the 80's...
posted by Buntix at 9:02 AM on May 13, 2017 [44 favorites]


all I remember about him was that he played a lot of golf and Chevy Chase became famous for mocking his falls.

I remember that Rumsfeld and Cheney were his men originally. Also, WIN.
posted by thelonius at 9:02 AM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


I think you mean that Ford was Cheney and Rumsfeld's man.
posted by Glibpaxman at 9:07 AM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


Ironically, as that was the plot of about 50% of sci-fi in the 80's...

SCWARZENEGGER IS
THE GOLFING MAN
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:07 AM on May 13, 2017 [8 favorites]




> I made a mistake, guise.

I forgive you.
posted by guiseroom at 9:12 AM on May 13, 2017 [27 favorites]


I remember that Rumsfeld and Cheney were his men originally.

Rummy and Big Dick Cheney were Team Nixon since his first administration. Ford's mistake was promoting them instead of purging them.

The worrisome question for the country is what kind of person's political career starts with Trump?
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:14 AM on May 13, 2017 [18 favorites]


"Imperator Omarosa" has a certain ring.
posted by contraption at 9:18 AM on May 13, 2017 [11 favorites]


You can send a message directly to the deputy attorney general of the US to ask him to appoint an independent counsel to investigate Russia's role in our most recent election campaign

I sent a message, and decided to appeal to his ego. I said I wouldn't rehash the headlines and proven allegations that he surely knew about, except to point out that Trump has already fired three people connected to the investigation and that historians from across the political spectrum have already called this worse than Watergate.

I told him our country needed a hero right now, and that he could be that hero, lauded as the man who saved the country and preserved its ideals as set forth by the founding fathers. 😎

Also, I've been watching Burn After Reading, and I'm pretty sure this scene (NSFW) has gone down between Trump and Kellyanne at least once.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:34 AM on May 13, 2017 [13 favorites]


Just riffing here....but if there was a way to get Pence/Trump out before 2018 who would the Republicans choose to be the place holder? It needs to be someone who is respected, dyed-in-the-wool GOP, gets along OK with Dems, and wouldn't mind being POTUS with a giant asterisk next to his name and a toxic cloud hanging over the White House. I think McCain might fit the bill.

I like imagining a Nixon/Agnew redux. Pence gets impeached first and Trump in a blind panic resigns quickly. I really like picturing Trump. Jared, & Ivanka sweating it out in the Oval Office, trying to save the Trump brand and their own hides. The only problem is I really- REALLY- do not want a blanket Presidential Pardon because this Presidency has set such a terrible precedent. There has to be a penalty for lying so egregiously, profiting so blatantly from the office and flouting all the nepotism laws otherwise it will all happen again and it will be worse the next time.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:36 AM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


Pence gets impeached first and Trump in a blind panic resigns quickly.

The problem is this would be obvious as a naked political ploy to grab the Presidency. There is no question that Trump is far more embroiled in wrongdoing in every possible way than Pence. If anyone deserves to be impeached, it is him. No one deserves to be impeached more.
posted by corb at 9:39 AM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'd say there's some significant degree of question there - at this point I would say they are equally culpable.
posted by Artw at 9:43 AM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


JFC FOX News actually called the 8 year old boy who got elbowed by Pence a "special snowflake" because he asked the VP for an apology...I can't even.

Media Matters: Fox News Contributor Slams An 8 Year-Old As A Stalker Snowflake Who "Needed A Safe Space"


They actually run a slo-mo analysis to see if this warranted an apology.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:43 AM on May 13, 2017 [43 favorites]


Damn near a dozen leakers a day are telling anyone who will listen that Trump hates leakers. I gotta think there is some sublimated anger about all of the chaos in their work place.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:53 AM on May 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


But what did they mean? Did they mean Comey mistreated Clinton in the last days of the election as Democrats feel? Or that Comey failed to find indict Clinton, as the Republicans feel? Which was it?

I think it's partly the first, in the timing of that original announcement, and partly that Comey in recent days had misrepresented how many emails were forwarded by Abedin, and was wrong about their classified status. If I've followed this all correctly.
posted by greermahoney at 9:57 AM on May 13, 2017


Oh yes. Regardless of legal or constitutional merit, I want a majority of people thinking it's true before 2018.
This story may or may not be true, but legend has it that during one of Lyndon Johnson’s congressional campaigns he decided to spread a rumor that his opponent was a pig-fucker. LBJ’s campaign manager said, “Lyndon, you know he doesn’t do that!” Johnson replied, “I know. I just want to make him deny it.”
posted by kirkaracha at 9:59 AM on May 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


That 8-year-old had it coming.
posted by guiseroom at 10:00 AM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


It's probably true about Pence and the horse tho.
posted by Artw at 10:04 AM on May 13, 2017 [18 favorites]


re: the comment by XMLicious upthread:

WASHINGTON: President Donald Trump may have a clear preference for a “goddamned steam” catapult on the USS Ford and its successors, but his opinion is not based on any detailed Navy briefing about the ship, according to Sean Stackley, acting Navy Secretary.

This is your reminder that we have "acting" Secretaries of the Army and Navy because the first candidates for both jobs pulled out. In both cases, they could not find a way to properly divest themselves of their business interests, creating a conflict of interest that Republicans in Congress clearly couldn't care less about.

Both of those guys may be horrible and ruthless businessmen for all I know. Maybe they didn't want their finances or relationships investigated. But they pulled out because they couldn't meet an ethical standard that everyone knows wouldn't be enforced anyway. We don't have a SecNav or a SecArmy right now because the first two candidates were too ethical to serve in this administration.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:06 AM on May 13, 2017 [51 favorites]


The problem is this would be obvious as a naked political ploy to grab the Presidency.

You really don't get to be upset about naked political ploys to grab the Presidency if you're part of the party that eagerly engages in carefully targeted voter suppression and that stole the Presidency against the clearly stated will of the American people TWICE in the last twenty years.

Of course, that ignores that it's not even a political ploy in the first place, because Pence clearly deserves to be impeached more. There is no chance that the Trump campaign or the Trump White House engaged in even a single dirty move that Pence didn't know about; there is no question that Pence is every bit as dirty on this as Trump. The thing that makes him a more deserving target is that he actually understands what's happening and what this stuff means. Trump is filthy, but he's also either shockingly stupid or suffering from some kind of dementia and I would be very surprised if he has any grasp of the larger implications of what he certainly sees as just another personal enrichment scheme. To use a simple metaphor: Trump is committing manslaughter, while Sessions, Bannon, Pence, and the others in the administration are committing first-degree murder. They all need to be removed from power and put away, but there's no question whose crimes are greater. Trump can go last.
posted by IAmUnaware at 10:11 AM on May 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


Re: Pence and the horse.
posted by Artw at 10:20 AM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


That 8-year-old had it coming.
He only had himself to blame.
Fox News they seen it, and then they show it.
Now you're brainwashed you think the same.
posted by Talez at 10:26 AM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


We don't have a SecNav or a SecArmy right now because the first two candidates were too ethical to serve in this administration.
Well, or because the first two candidates had enough brainpower to realize the Trump administration is a career killer.
posted by mumimor at 10:27 AM on May 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


Aside from looking nice, he seems to have zero charisma.

Was thinking a couple weeks ago that I genuinely like Tillerson's smile, so I do have at least one thing nice to say about this administration after all.
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:48 AM on May 13, 2017


Or that they didn't want all their personal shit dragged through the papers. Or, a little from column A, etc.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:50 AM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


It's probably true about Pence and the horse tho.

To be fair to Pence, he never promised Mother that he would not dine alone with a horse.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:56 AM on May 13, 2017 [39 favorites]


i have this weird gut feeling that the amount of blood and tears on the sunday shows tomorrow will be the leading indicator of how fucked the administration is in the short term?
posted by murphy slaw at 11:03 AM on May 13, 2017


We don't have a SecNav or a SecArmy right now because the first two candidates were too ethical to serve in this administration.

Also, there have been two nominees for Secretary of the Army have withdrawn so far. The first, Vincent Viola, withdrew because of his business interests, the second, Mark Green, has withdrawn because pushback against his hateful "Christian beliefs" including calling Syrian refugees "ISIS people", that "transgender is a disease" and encouraging armed citizens to protect public bathrooms, and refusing to prescribe brith control to his female patients. It's one of the rare cases where opposition has been able to tank an awful Trump nominee.
posted by peeedro at 11:13 AM on May 13, 2017 [35 favorites]


A contingent of MAGA hatters and Oath Keepers drove down to Boston today from New Hampshire, or wherever it is they come from, to scream through a megaphone on Boston Common at the antifa counter-protesters who, of course, also came (and who scored a strategic victory by getting to the hill in the center of the Common before the neo-Nazis could). A couple of MAGA boys who got a bit out of hand were arrested and driven away in vans parked by the Earl of Sandwich kiosk. Writer Luke O'Neil was in the middle of it all (the police tried to carve out a large space between the two sides; early on, somebody visited that space and left a can of Pepsi) and has photos and video. Also see this video of a MAGA-hat initiation rite.
posted by adamg at 11:14 AM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


Ar 1:30 Trump tweeted: We.

That's all there was. He either changed his mind or got interrupted but still hit the tweet button. Nonetheless that tweet was favorited and retweeted 1.5 thousand times before being deleted. And now #We is trending. as in: #We can't believe you're the goddamn President.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:17 AM on May 13, 2017 [74 favorites]


Maybe he meant... wee?
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 11:20 AM on May 13, 2017 [34 favorites]


I try to keep up with this thread but some times I miss things like what did Mike "Hot To Trot" Pence do to a horse?
posted by guiseroom at 11:24 AM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm not sure, but I don't think it's the antifa waving a flag showing people being murdered by being dropped out of helicopters.
posted by Yowser at 11:25 AM on May 13, 2017




To be fair to Pence, he never promised Mother that he would not dine alone with a horse.

I try to keep up with this thread but some times I miss things like what did Mike "Hot To Trot" Pence do to a horse?


/r/crusaderkings invaded reality. deus vult.
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:29 AM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]




Ar 1:30 Trump tweeted: We.

That's all there was. He either changed his mind or got interrupted but still hit the tweet button.


Is Trump still using a very unsecure Samsung SIII? That is what I last heard he was using as his primary device for tweeting. And I'm praying that this is just a joke or a meme that was floating around?
posted by Fizz at 11:30 AM on May 13, 2017


Wee the People
posted by guiseroom at 11:33 AM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


i cannot believe there is a neofascist contingent voluntarily calling themselves "proud boys". sounds like they learned to tie their own shoes or graduated to pull-ups from diapers or some shit. glad they like to fight because their name is such a brutal self-own.
posted by murphy slaw at 11:33 AM on May 13, 2017 [19 favorites]


This is the tweet in question:

@Mike Pence:
Outstanding afternoon. "I've often said there's nothing better for the inside of a man than the outside of a horse." -Pres. Reagan #VPinMT

Attached to a picture of a smiling Pence standing next to his horse
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:35 AM on May 13, 2017 [23 favorites]


technically that sounds more like #horsefuckee
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:36 AM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


Is Trump still using a very unsecure Samsung SIII?

I believe he was give an iPhone a while back; that's what he uses for tweets, at least.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:36 AM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


considering how a horse-related head injury is generally agreed to have hastened reagan's final decline, that is not a quote i ever expected to hear again
posted by murphy slaw at 11:39 AM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


technically that sounds more like #horsefuckee

I don't think we should discriminate between sex acts, it's all fucking.
posted by Artw at 11:39 AM on May 13, 2017


"Proud boys" because "The Chubs" was taken by some Cheap Trick cover band in Petaluma. They changed their name back to "Penal Colony" and the proud boys thought they might go back with "The Chubs" but then they thought "well, what's the point".
posted by petebest at 11:42 AM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


Regardless, either Trump or Putin probably have tapes of it.
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:42 AM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


They're such fans of British accents that I'm surprised they didn't call themselves droogs.
posted by Yowser at 11:44 AM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


I would not have thought of Pence and Catherine the Great in the same breath before.
posted by chris24 at 11:45 AM on May 13, 2017 [10 favorites]


The horse said neigh. Pence didn't care.
posted by orange ball at 11:46 AM on May 13, 2017 [17 favorites]


I was really, really hoping this thread was just going to pretend the horse thing never happened, but since we're seemingly about to go 100 comments on horse foolery.

Here's a spoof NYT covering the events [fake, and it better stay that way]. Be sure to note the Ross Douthat and Tom Friedman columns on the right, which are spot-on.
posted by zachlipton at 11:51 AM on May 13, 2017 [8 favorites]


Horsefucking can be sad business that kills people. There was a guy in Washington who would break into barns to get fucked by stallions; if caught he'd get arrested for trespassing but would when he was released (if held at all) he'd just go back to trying to fuck horses. IIRC the legislature was in the process of finally banning bestiality -- mostly to stop this one poor weirdo who was plainly going to keep doing this until it killed him -- when he finally perforated his gut on a horse penis and died. 'Tis a felony in WA now.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:57 AM on May 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


Jesus, that sounded like Reagan was fucking horses. How had I never heard that quote before.

Actually I guess it would be getting fucked by a horse, wouldn't it, otherwise the outside/inside thing. . . .

Okay I'm done
posted by angrycat at 11:59 AM on May 13, 2017


"In America, We Don’t Worship Government, We Worship God," Trump Says
In his first commencement address as president, Trump talked a lot about God, football, and, of course, the crowd size at his speech. With no apparent sense of irony, he complained about “critics,” saying, “Nothing is easier or more pathetic than being a critic.”
posted by kirkaracha at 11:59 AM on May 13, 2017 [10 favorites]


'Tis a felony in WA now.

Closing the barn door after the horses have something something.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:00 PM on May 13, 2017 [12 favorites]


Mod note: Enough with the horses. I swear there's an aphorism about that but let's just say: enough.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:01 PM on May 13, 2017 [43 favorites]


He's an atheist ffs
posted by Yowser at 12:01 PM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


He's a salesman, and they're buying what he's selling.
posted by peeedro at 12:03 PM on May 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


if there was a way to get Pence/Trump out before 2018 who would the Republicans choose to be the place holder?

This isn't a parliamentary system. They don't get to choose. There is a succession set by the Constitution and subsequently amended, as modified by law.

It goes Pence, Speaker of the House Ryan, President pro tempore of the Senate Hatch [the title indicates he is the ranking Senate officer after the Vice President, who is the permanent President], and then the cabinet (in order of creation of the office, so State, Treasury, Defense (War), Justice, etc. (This makes, somewhat weirdly, Homeland Security dead last.) Note that persons ineligible Constitutionally for the Presidency are skipped, so Taiwan-born Elaine Chao [McConnell] -- as were also Kissinger and Albright -- isn't going to be tapped "it". For that matter, despite his political importance, the Senate Majority Leader is not in the line of succession.

Ryan, of course, is even more unpopular among Republicans than Trump. He is currently ranked as the least popular politician in the United States (with a -23 margin of disapproval per April's PPP poll).

In any case, your theory of scrambling around for a popular interim President is moot. In theory any of the designated successors could decline to take the oath of office and let it pass to someone below, but again, without actually changing the current law, putting in someone popular would be problematic.

(There is a theory that the Speaker of the House can be anyone that body should choose, so they could, perhaps, at the last minute prior to removal of T/P, ditch Ryan and elect The Rock in his place. Ethnically both Samoan-American and Black Canadian-American, Johnson was born in California.)

bow to christopherius for answering this 7 hours before it was posted.
posted by dhartung at 12:04 PM on May 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


Charlie Warzel: What Happens When The Pro-Trump Media Get Actual Scoops?, on the scary fact that folks like Cernovich are seemingly being handed real stories:
For all the understandable hand-wringing about the legitimization of the pro-Trump media, its rise makes perfect sense: Their people are in the White House. Trump, clichéd as it may be, is an effective troll, and he brought with him a troll press corps. Increasingly, the mainstream media — and mainstream media consumers — are being forced to pay attention to personalities that, even weeks ago, they might have dismissed outright. This shift raises a number of thorny questions — about sourcing (in 2014, Johnson proudly admitted to paying for sources), about ideological agendas, and about whether traditional journalistic values and standards even matter at all.

There’s a good chance they might not to an audience that doesn't see careers in both trolling and journalism as mutually exclusive. And while Cernovich has significantly dialed back his trolling, to many, he may always be the Man Who Cried "Hillary Has Parkinson's!"
posted by zachlipton at 12:09 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


He'll always be the man that stalked Zoe Quinn to me.
posted by Yowser at 12:11 PM on May 13, 2017 [26 favorites]




It's about ethics in Nazi journalism?
posted by Yowser at 12:21 PM on May 13, 2017 [8 favorites]


If Pence goes first, the Republicans pick a VP-- presumably one who agrees to pardon the outgoing President. How do you think we ended up with President Ford?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:25 PM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


And actually we worship money as Trump himself well knows.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:28 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


Yeah, we've actually been through this before. Spiro Agnew managed to resign in the middle of the Watergate investigation. When there's a VP vacancy, the President nominates a new VP who has to be approved by both houses of Congress.

I see a lot of speculation that there would be some sort of double impeachment, but that seems unlikely in practice. Also, there are no do-overs or reversals. It doesn't matter who the president is or how they got there; bills they sign are laws, and judges they appoint that are confirmed serve for life.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:31 PM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Yes that's why I said it would have to be someone acceptable to the Dems like McCain. Maybe Kasich.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:36 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


Fox is getting surprising.

It's not a sudden outbreak of morals. It IS an interesting bellwether, though. They perceive Trump's foundation of support growing shaky, and they need to lay the groundwork now for maintaining their audience when the GOP does begin to seriously turn against him.


I've been waiting for this. Trump is going to go down, and it's going to be a tricky situation for Fox because they don't want their viewers to have to confront the fact that Fox has been lying to them the whole time. If they can make the transition comfortable enough viewers can pretend that wasn't happening. Fox must have lots of plans for this, I think that's why there's been some slight attempts at playing both sides. It's just a matter of when they kick the plan into gear.

Trump makes all this tricky. I think there's a good chance he could resign at any moment. I think he'd love to if he could figure out a good story. If he was smart he would, before he goes to jail. But if he waits too long and starts to go down I think he'll dig in and fight to the death, the time for resigning will be over.

Fox is just trying to figure out how to play this so their viewers can stay in their bubble and not be slapped in the face with the truth. I think their best plan by far is to get him to resign and claim victory. Trump fighting to the death is bad for Fox.
posted by bongo_x at 12:38 PM on May 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


The official @GOP Twitter account is now being used to defend Trump getting more ice cream than his guests: "Apparently @POTUS likes two scoops of ice cream after dinner. We can’t disagree that two is better than one."

The GOP has a social media person spending their time defending bad manners.
posted by zachlipton at 12:40 PM on May 13, 2017 [56 favorites]


Actually a well-liked Senator makes the most sense since the Senate has to agree. Also McCain is old and would probably retire once his term is up which would make it easier for the Republicans to run a "fresh slate" in 2020 without the Trump taint.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:42 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


Oh man think of the secret meetings going on behind the scenes.
"How are we going to tell Trump he has to quit?"
"How are we going to force him to quit?"
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:48 PM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


President Lindsey Graham.

I'm not saying I want that to happen but it would complete the surreal unreality of this whole escapade.
posted by Justinian at 12:49 PM on May 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


I would put good money on Comey not spending much time on the Clinton email thing in his (potential) public testimony. I think you're misreading the situation.
posted by Justinian at 12:53 PM on May 13, 2017 [13 favorites]


Of course -- out of 300m people in the US there's not a single person who thinks he was fired because of that.
posted by rainy at 12:56 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


The idea that Pence would resign first requires #1: that Pence has any sense at all of wrongdoing — not possible, and #2: that someone, somewhere among the Republicans is capable of strategic planning — not likely.

Maybe that is the main difference between now and 1973 - back then, there were really smart, if evil, people among the R's. Now Paul Ryan is supposed to be the smart guy. They have no clue what to do, even though they should have started planning for this situation in November. (It's fair enough that they thought Clinton would win and were planning for 8 more years of obstruction before that).

IMO, this applies to the propaganda wing - Fox News - as well. They are not prepared for what is coming, though they probably have a better sense than the politicians that it is coming. Mainly because they can see their ratings are going down. If they don't get on the train soon, they will be obsolete, and my guess is we will see them scrambling the next couple of weeks.

Maybe there are not enough popcorn in the world for what is coming. I should go make some guacamole as well.
posted by mumimor at 12:59 PM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


I think Mitch McConnell fits the template of "smart but evil" perfectly. But it's certainly a lot more rare than in the past.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:02 PM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


If McConnell were smart, he would have distanced himself from Trump long ago. Right now he's just one more rat scrambling for the crow's nest on a sinking ship.

As of 2017, the Republican party consists of three distinct bases: evil, stupid, and crazy. Trump owes his success to his unique ability to appeal equally to all three.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:12 PM on May 13, 2017 [31 favorites]


Seems Chaffetz is going full Palin, won't finish his term.

Jason Chaffetz Has Been Telling House Republicans He Will Join Fox News
posted by chris24 at 1:17 PM on May 13, 2017 [11 favorites]


Jason Chaffetz Has Been Telling House Republicans He Will Join Fox News

The first liberal person he interviews should just point out how terrible he was and that he was going to lose an election as a Republican in Utah.
posted by Talez at 1:20 PM on May 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


There's no reason to believe that Comey is unhappy? Wow I disagree. Trump has said that the FBI is happy that Comey was fired, that the FBI was badly run. That's got to sting. Not to mention being fired long distance from your dream job just 4 years into your 10 year term. He never had the chance to say goodbye to his team. Remember, Comey was so surprised he thought he was being pranked. Then the President went on to tell a pack of lies about him.

I get the strong impression that Comey sees himself as a man of integrity trying to do the right thing. He lost his job because he wouldn't lie and flatter the President. That has got to rankle.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:21 PM on May 13, 2017 [17 favorites]


I get the strong impression that Comey sees himself as a man of integrity trying to do the right thing. He lost his job because he wouldn't lie and flatter the President. That has got to rankle.

He is probably angry and even bitter, but he has moral superiority and a grandiose career to look forward to. Not half bad
posted by mumimor at 1:26 PM on May 13, 2017


Has Trump started tweeting about Eurovision yet?
posted by PenDevil at 1:26 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


I just don't understand this idea that Trump and Pence would be impeached, or resign, simultaneously. I think it's pretty farfetched - Ryan would automatically become president because there'd be no President to nominate a new Vice-President, etc. I don't think the Republicans would give up their ability to choose a VP. Remember that Ford picked Nelson Rockefeller as his VP, who at that time did not hold elected office. So the list of possibles is very large indeed. One of the Koch brothers. Rudy. Jesse Ventura. Condi Rice. Ivanka. You name it.

The idea behind Ford was that he was seen as a fairly moderate, mild-mannered, inoffensive, almost boring guy who most people agreed had a clean character. He was sort of the archetype of a mainstream Republican, and the anti-Nixon and anti-Agnew. Recall that he was House minority leader and had to be approved by the House (I'm not sure what majority needed).

Anyway, on the way to an unelected President X I am sure we would see a President Pence. By that time I'd be surprised if the 2018 midterms had not already happened, with a likely Democrat House and possibly Senate. At that point all bets are off for a VP appointment if she or he has to be confirmed by the House.

Also, if they do have to go down the order of succession and there is a President Ryan, then does #4 on the order become the VP automatically?
posted by Rumple at 1:28 PM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Has Trump started tweeting about Eurovision yet?

"I like that song Waterloo where Comey was defeated and I won the war!"
posted by Talez at 1:30 PM on May 13, 2017 [10 favorites]


then does #4 on the order become the VP automatically

No. The replacement VP specifically has to be voted on by Congress. From John Tyler through LBJ, when a president died, the VP became president and there was no vice-president for the remainder of the term. The 25th Amendment was put into place to prevent something like that from happening again.
posted by dhens at 1:31 PM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


AP: Trump’s frustrations are boiling over after Comey dismissal
The communications staff charged with explaining the decision to the American people had an hour’s notice. Chief strategist Steve Bannon learned on television, according to three White House officials, though a person close to Bannon disputed that characterization.
...
After Trump decided to fire Comey, he was told by aides that Democrats would likely react positively to the news given the role many believe Comey played in Hillary Clinton’s defeat last year. When the opposite occurred, Trump grew incensed — both at Democrats and his own communications staff for not quickly lining up more Republicans to defend him on television.
Is his staff really that delusional that they thought Democrats would praise this?
posted by zachlipton at 1:35 PM on May 13, 2017 [20 favorites]


I just don't understand this idea that Trump and Pence would be impeached, or resign, simultaneously.

While the Republicans will do everything they can to avoid this, Trump and family are doing everything they can to incriminate Pence. Probably because they know he would be all back-stabbing already if they didn't. See how every time there is big lying to be done, he is upfront? I bet he isn't volunteering.
posted by mumimor at 1:36 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


President Lindsey Graham.

I do declare, I do declare!
posted by photoslob at 1:36 PM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


If McConnell were smart, he would have distanced himself from Trump long ago. Right now he's just one more rat scrambling for the crow's nest on a sinking ship.

It is not at all a foregone conclusion that the GOP ship is going to sink. They have made a hell of a lot out of gerrymandering that might even them from being overwhelmed by the midterm wave unless there's a hell of a lot of hard work. They are going to take vote suppression to a new level. They could well stage their own terrorist attack/Reichstag fire timed support them electorally if they need to do it.

It's fun to watch the ship lurch as its roster of brazen sociopaths struggles with the deluded political cosplayers performing their grade-school understanding of what governing looks like. But there is no guarantee it's going to sink without hard and worthy work to get all hands on deck of our own ship and maybe even heavy recruitment who are aware their ship has problems but have heard some scary stories about ours...
posted by wildblueyonder at 1:40 PM on May 13, 2017 [18 favorites]


Is it me or do these reports sounds like Hitler in the bunker at the end of WWII? (note: I AM NOT SAYING TRUMP IS THE SAME AS HITLER I AM TALKING ABOUT MENTAL STATES).

You'll note there aren't as many popular Downfall parodies going on. I think thats because its just too on the nose.
posted by Justinian at 1:42 PM on May 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


If we're writing speculating fanfic that presumes a R party that stops being complicit, I'd wager what happens is a backroom deal is cut where Pence gets told that he gets to dodge removal if he picks a VP of party choosing. They can't promise him no impeachment since a House flip to the Ds means that's out of their hands. But the odds that the Ds take 67 seats in the Senate are miniscule, so he can avoid removal. Possibly part of the deal is Pence doesn't run in the next election, though folks who will go along this far with Trump don't strike me as all that principled that they wouldn't work with Presieent Pence.

Now why anyone would want the gig in that sort of circumstance is beyond me but I can't fathom who agrees to be veep to Trump either.
posted by phearlez at 1:43 PM on May 13, 2017


President Lindsay Graham?

Now I may be just be a simple country Hyper-Chicken, but I know when we're finger licked.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:45 PM on May 13, 2017 [16 favorites]


Jesse Ventura

Actually, the only real politician in the bunch.
posted by mikelieman at 1:46 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


Is his staff really that delusional that they thought Democrats would praise this?

Nope. His staff are has reached that stage of torture where you will tell them whatever you the they want to hear. They knew Trump wanted to hear that the Dems would approve, so that's what they told him.
posted by mikelieman at 1:48 PM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


No. The replacement VP specifically has to be voted on by Congress

Am I right in thinking that #3 (Speaker of House) would not have to be voted on by Congress to become President?
posted by Rumple at 1:50 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]




Am I right in thinking that #3 (Speaker of House) would not have to be voted on by Congress to become President?

Yes
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:51 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


Apparently @POTUS likes two scoops of ice cream after dinner. We can’t disagree that two is better than one.

Y'know, I have no problem with the idea that the President would like an extra scoop of ice cream. I have a big goddamn problem with the fact that the person representing America at state dinners &c. is so fucking graceless that he acquires his second scoop in a way which passive-aggressively challenges them with a presumption that he's more deserving than they. If, say, Obama (or either Bush, or Clinton, or anyone who wasn't raised in a damn barn) wanted a second scoop of ice cream served to him at desert (and why wouldn't he?) he'd figure out a way to make his guests feel included, either with a insouciant remark of "I usually get a second scoop of ice cream on this, anyone else want one?" or simply instructing waitstaff to ask guests whether they would like one or two scoops.

There are plenty of ways to get something nice without being a total dick about it.

I wouldn't be surprised if, for the third time, Comey publically denounces Clinton for her email practices.

Truly I tell you, this very night, before the rooster crows, you will denounce me three times.
posted by jackbishop at 1:52 PM on May 13, 2017 [62 favorites]


If, say, Obama (or either Bush, or Clinton, or anyone who wasn't raised in a damn barn) wanted a second scoop of ice cream served to him at desert (and why wouldn't he?) he'd figure out a way to make his guests feel included, either with a insouciant remark of "I usually get a second scoop of ice cream on this, anyone else want one?" or simply instructing waitstaff to ask guests whether they would like one or two scoops.

Actually, it's not being raised in a damn barn. Farm animals have the capacity for empathy. Donald Trump does not.
posted by mikelieman at 2:00 PM on May 13, 2017 [13 favorites]


As fun as fantasy impeachment is, it'll never happen. There's nothing on earth Trump could do to get Ryan to bring impeachment charges in the House, and nothing after 2018 even if Dems win to get a single Republican vote to remove in the Senate. He's already handed the nuclear codes over to Putin, there's nothing worse that can be done that Republicans won't be completely on board with. He's going to be there until 2020 unless he keels over or goes (more) insane and has to resign.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:00 PM on May 13, 2017 [8 favorites]


all this talk of succession seem incredibly premature and optimistic. i feel like what we're actually going to get is a version of watergate where every republican pushed hard for america to "get over this third-rate burglary so we can deal with important issues facing the country" and nixon served out his whole term with a cloud over him that never quite coalesced into an actual scandal
posted by murphy slaw at 2:02 PM on May 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


There are plenty of ways to get something nice without being a total dick about it.

I think he enjoys the being a dick about it more than the actual nice thing.
posted by Grangousier at 2:02 PM on May 13, 2017 [78 favorites]


trump only cares about having an extra scoop, he gives no fucks about ice cream
posted by murphy slaw at 2:04 PM on May 13, 2017 [26 favorites]


Ar 1:30 Trump tweeted: We.

Clearly a reference to the art-documentary We. based on Arundhati Roy's Come September speech.

It's his way of letting us know that all this has all been one great plot (80 years in the making) to subvert neo-liberalism from the inside, and that the plan will soon be reaching its culmination. By 2020 we will all be working 2 day weeks due to wealth being re-distributed from the 1% back to the curve it belonged on. We will own our living spaces, and manage and own the tools of production, and with it our lives.

I mean, what else could it be...
posted by Buntix at 2:04 PM on May 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


I AM TALKING ABOUT MENTAL STATES

Yeah you are!

What were they thinking over in left-pondia?
posted by Buntix at 2:06 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


Yes, I totally get why the RNC feels the need to defend ice cream-gate. Because it truly reveals Trump as a low-life mobster with no dignity, no pride and also no sense of duty to the nation. I'm not joking: there is no way POTUS couldn't give every single guest and everyone who works at the White House a mountain of dessert, but he chooses to attempt to demonstrate his power by having two scoops of ice cream. Not by killing Osama bin Laden in the middle of the Correspondents Dinner, and not even by declaring faux victory on an air carrier in faux uniform. Just having two scoops of ice cream. Even Fox News viewers can see something is off here.
posted by mumimor at 2:09 PM on May 13, 2017 [55 favorites]


There's nothing on earth Trump could do to get Ryan to bring impeachment charges in the House, and nothing after 2018 even if Dems win to get a single Republican vote to remove in the Senate.

I think this depends a lot on what gets uncovered in the various Russia investigations and how clear and solid the proof is. If it's bad enough Ryan could even position himself as Savior of The Republican Party, the man who ousted that criminal Trump.
posted by soundguy99 at 2:12 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


President Lindsey Graham.

I'm not saying I want that to happen but it would complete the surreal unreality of this whole escapade.


*ASCII slap* Tequila shots at dawn, suh! I will have satisfaction!

*uuurp*
posted by petebest at 2:12 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


i feel like what we're actually going to get is a version of watergate where every republican pushed hard for america to "get over this third-rate burglary so we can deal with important issues facing the country" and nixon served out his whole term with a cloud over him that never quite coalesced into an actual scandal

Wasn't that the plot of Watchmen? So now we also have to worry about giant alien squid attacks? Cool. This timeline keeps getting better and better.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 2:13 PM on May 13, 2017 [13 favorites]


it's bad enough Ryan could even position himself as Savior of The Republican Party, the man who ousted that criminal Trump.

Okay now that is fucken terrifying
posted by Joseph Gurl at 2:13 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


VP, tax fraud, resignation, impeachment: 1973 has it all

In 1973, Agnew was investigated by the United States Attorney for the District of Maryland on charges of extortion, tax fraud, bribery, and conspiracy. He was charged with having accepted bribes totaling more than $100,000 while holding office as Baltimore County Executive, Governor of Maryland, and Vice President. On October 10 that same year, Agnew was allowed to plead no contest to a single charge that he had failed to report $29,500 of income received in 1967, with the condition that he resign the office of Vice President. Nixon later replaced Agnew by appointing House Minority Leader Gerald Ford as Vice President. The following year, when Nixon resigned from the White House due to the Watergate scandal, Ford ascended to the presidency.
posted by petebest at 2:17 PM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


NYT: A Look at the Candidates Trump Is Considering to Head the F.B.I.
Mr. Trump and his advisers have asked some people whether they believe Mr. Kelly, the former New York police commissioner, would be “loyal,” language similar to what he used in questioning Mr. Comey’s effectiveness, according to people briefed on the discussions. In Mr. Kelly’s case, they said, the White House appeared to be trying to assess whether he would seek to advance his own image, as Mr. Trump accused Mr. Comey of doing.
So we're headed toward an interesting situation. A permanent FBI Director has to be confirmed by the Senate. And whoever that is, it's inevitable that one or more Democrats will ask that nominee if Trump asked for a pledge of personal loyalty and how he responded. And they'll have to come up with an answer knowing, and here's the really fun part, that there very well could be a secret White House taping system that will have their actual conversation recorded somewhere.
posted by zachlipton at 2:17 PM on May 13, 2017 [58 favorites]


No. The replacement VP specifically has to be voted on by Congress

Am I right in thinking that #3 (Speaker of House) would not have to be voted on by Congress to become President?


Yes. The office of president is filled automatically; there is no such provision for the VP.
posted by dhens at 2:17 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


I think this depends a lot on what gets uncovered in the various Russia investigations and how clear and solid the proof is. If it's bad enough Ryan could even position himself as Savior of The Republican Party, the man who ousted that criminal Trump.

That's going to be pretty difficult when every one of them, most especially Ryan, is on record stonewalling the need for any investigations at all.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:17 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]




I'm not sure if this has been posted here yet: Health care worker blasts GOP Representative Tom MacArthur over AHCA at Town Hall meeting.
posted by loquacious at 2:19 PM on May 13, 2017 [16 favorites]


My wife met a fairly high-level Republican party operative in an airport last year - he was on his way to a meeting with the Koch Brothers . . . he said Ryan desperately wants and intends to be President. If he can position himself as the Savior of the Republic, there is little doubt in my mind that he is going to take it.
posted by waitingtoderail at 2:24 PM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


...and we're rooting for that?
posted by Joseph Gurl at 2:25 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


Hey if Ryan wants to help impeach Trump because he thinks it will help his career I'm all for it. The impeaching, not his career. Stopping Ryan is a problem for another day.
posted by Justinian at 2:28 PM on May 13, 2017 [12 favorites]


Yeah I think it's fairly obvious what Ryan wants. And as much talk as there has been on here about party over country, these guys are out for themselves first and foremost.
posted by orange ball at 2:28 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


What exactly is supposed to be Ryan's path to Savior of the Republic?
posted by rhizome at 2:29 PM on May 13, 2017


This frying pan sucks; I'll take my chances with the fire.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 2:30 PM on May 13, 2017 [17 favorites]


If anyone knows the answer, keep your mouth shut
posted by orange ball at 2:30 PM on May 13, 2017 [24 favorites]


> It's May, and that poster is still there, because there is nothing that has replaced her program in terms of press materials

I'm working on the lifetime award for the Presidential Service Award, and was saddened to think that this year my letter would be signed by Trump. But hurray! It came a few weeks ago and was signed by President Obama.

Maybe it was because it was it was for service in 2016, but I suspect it's because nobody in the Trump administration gives a crap about the Presidential Service Award.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:31 PM on May 13, 2017 [23 favorites]


Ugh yeah, it's not like I'd be stoked about a President Ryan but honestly I'm looking for a President Won't Blow Up the World right now.
posted by EatTheWeek at 2:31 PM on May 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


This is not a crisis, Republicans say as a large spider slowly devours them

I love that the picture on the article is a closeup of a spider in a Petri dish. Very meta!
posted by Justinian at 2:33 PM on May 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


Fox is just trying to figure out how to play this so their viewers can stay in their bubble and not be slapped in the face with the truth.

For some reason I just can't see that happening. The roof caves in, Trump perp walks, Pence rolls, McConnell admits he's a lying sack of shit and the GOP says, "enh" and votes for Twitler Jr.

does that make me cynical?
posted by petebest at 2:33 PM on May 13, 2017


Huh. I think Ryan is faaar more dangerous, if only because of being less senile, ignorant, and incompetent. Ryan knows the bureaucracy.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 2:34 PM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


So since we're all playing Presidential Succession Fantasy Baseball today, where do we stand on military coup?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:34 PM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Aw hell no
posted by Joseph Gurl at 2:36 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


I doubt the military is our friend.
posted by Artw at 2:36 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


I think its fair to say we're probably against it?

About the only situation where a military coup would be better than the alternative is if Trump decided to start launching nukes out of spite.
posted by Justinian at 2:37 PM on May 13, 2017 [10 favorites]


Someone pitched a line of thought they said was common among Republicans at me - it was already in November, but I found it so disgusting I haven't mentioned it here. I haven't seen it either, but I dropped out now and then, so someone may have posted something like it.

The idea is that Trump is so scandalous and clueless that he will break the whole system and then both Republicans and Democrats will have to reinvent the entire political system. Not in the Bannon sense of disruption at all, this was a banker speaking, they felt the Tea party had broken the Republican party and the neo-liberals had broken the Democrats. They are also firmly internationalist and socially progressive.

Has anyone else met this type of Republican? To me, this is extremely cynical, literally risking the lives of millions in order to change the status quo. I know it well on the left, and regardless of politics, I don't get it.
posted by mumimor at 2:37 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


NYT: ‘Looking Like a Liar or a Fool’: What It Means to Work for Trump, which also contains the detail that Trump got mad at Giuliani for defending him after the pussy tape came out, "arguing that he wanted to attack Hillary Clinton, not play defense."

I can't get to the NYT story right now for some reason, but this is from the Raw Story piece re: that article:
The article alleges that Pence was among “the small group of advisers who planned Mr. Comey’s ouster in near secrecy”.

Pence’s work to forward the initial White House story claiming that Trump fired Comey under recommendation from Attorney General Jeff Sessions was “vaporized” once Trump appeared on Lester Holt‘s show Thursday, when the president claimed that he was “going to to fire regardless of the recommendation” of Sessions and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:40 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


I find President Ryan no more offensive than any other Republican President NotTrump, and really would prefer him over a god-botherer like Pence. He's a shit but not in any particularly unusual way as House Rs go.
posted by phearlez at 2:40 PM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


Plus the fact that he's the most widely-hated politician in America should surely be helpful in the future.
posted by Grangousier at 2:43 PM on May 13, 2017 [8 favorites]


He's a shit but not in any particularly unusual way as House Rs go.

Defenestrating ourselves right out of the Overton Window.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:43 PM on May 13, 2017 [60 favorites]




If we do end up with a new president I can tell you this: it will be someone in the line of presidential succession.

/captainobvious

//butapparentlynotthatobvious
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:45 PM on May 13, 2017 [8 favorites]


"It is significant that we take an oath to support and defend the Constitution and not an individual leader, ruler, office, or entity.

"A government of laws, and not of men." - That fat motherfucker John Adams.
posted by chris24 at 2:47 PM on May 13, 2017 [13 favorites]


The idea is that Trump is so scandalous and clueless that he will break the whole system and then both Republicans and Democrats will have to reinvent the entire political system.

That argument is basically accelerationism. At its core, you reject the status-quo, reject incrementalism as a mechanism for change, and conclude that disruption, of any sort, is the best mechanism to force big changes, and that the system will settle into a better result after the shocks. That this view is not widely shared by those who study autocracies ought to give one pause.

It's not exclusively a lefty phenomenon. The desired outcome after the acceleration can be anything from fully automated luxury space communism to global Nazi rule depending on who you ask. That's the dangerous thing about this line of thinking: everyone thinks they're getting what they want when they push the plunger and blow up the system, but after the blast, they're all going to rush to rearrange the pieces into completely different structures.
posted by zachlipton at 2:48 PM on May 13, 2017 [53 favorites]


It's generally favored by the kind of dumb asshole who thinks they are really smart.
posted by Artw at 2:52 PM on May 13, 2017 [30 favorites]


Ob. Webcomicname on accelerationism: I want things to be different...
posted by Jon Mitchell at 2:55 PM on May 13, 2017 [13 favorites]


I live in Maine, land of Paul LePage. He's done any number of things, and no one has done anything about him. I have no faith that anyone will do anything about Trump either. The outrage happens, media reports it, then life goes on as usual.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 2:56 PM on May 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


It's generally favored by the kind of dumb asshole who thinks they are really smart.

I don't care for it, myself.
posted by valkane at 2:56 PM on May 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


WaPo: White House ‘systems failed’ with Comey firing, but Trump pushed the buttons: White House aides have felt bewildered and alarmed by how Trump arrives at his decisions — often on impulse and emotion, and sometimes by rejecting the counsel of those around him — and how he then communicates them to his own personnel and to the public. Trump is in some ways like a pilot opting to fly a plane through heavy turbulence, then blaming the flight attendants when the passengers get jittery.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:57 PM on May 13, 2017 [10 favorites]


Critical fluctuations signal a shift in a complex system from one (perhaps) stable form of equilibrium to another. If you believe that simple mathematical insight gives you licence to fuck with the lives of millions, we appear to have a Platonic problem on our hands!
posted by stonepharisee at 2:57 PM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


The idea is that Trump is so scandalous and clueless that he will break the whole system and then both Republicans and Democrats will have to reinvent the entire political system.

I have never hoped for this, because it's just too damn dangerous. But I knew Trump would destroy the status quo if he won. Whatever we get in the future isn't gonna be familiar to us Pre-Trump humans, regardless of how it shakes out. It makes me anxious and scared just trying to figure it out, actually.
posted by Glibpaxman at 2:59 PM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


He's a shit but not in any particularly unusual way as House Rs go.

Defenestrating ourselves right out of the Overton Window.


Well I want a D president but I both paid attention in school and have more than a clam's grasp of strategy and human nature, so I know who is in the secession chain, that it has to be followed, and that there's not going to be any plan that requires R cooperation (like Senate removal would, or impeachment with R in the Speaker's chair) that is going to leave such a person in the White House. That's about reality, which often has little intersection with the window of what I consider acceptable.

Calling it defenestration to sub Trump with Ryan strikes me as particularly odd. Maybe we don't all consider Ryan "unacceptable within normal parameters" as has been said here innumerable times, but I am shocked anyone would not consider him an improvement by any measure.
posted by phearlez at 3:03 PM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


I think Ryan would be far worse--he'd accomplish stuff, for one.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:06 PM on May 13, 2017 [33 favorites]


The New York Times invited Erik Erikson to write stupid shit:
Though they are criticizing his firing now, Democrats were calling for Mr. Comey’s head after he reopened the Clinton email investigation late in the campaign last year. If he was so bad then, is he really so good now? It also is telling that two of President Trump’s most vocal critics within the Republican Party, Senator Susan Collins of Maine and Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, both embraced Mr. Comey’s termination.
The best analysis the New York Times could get is a guy who reduces a person to simply "bad" or "good" and declares anyone who thinks maaaaaaybe there's a little more nuance around why and how something is done a hypocrite?
posted by zachlipton at 3:07 PM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Plus he'd look all smug and self-satisfied while accomplishing said stuff.
posted by wabbittwax at 3:07 PM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


AP: BREAKING: South Korea's Yonhap news agency reports that North Korea launched a projectile believed to be a ballistic missile.
posted by PenDevil at 3:08 PM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]




WaPo: White House ‘systems failed’ with Comey firing, but Trump pushed the buttons: White House aides have felt bewildered and alarmed by how Trump arrives at his decisions — often on impulse and emotion, and sometimes by rejecting the counsel of those around him — and how he then communicates them to his own personnel and to the public. Trump is in some ways like a pilot opting to fly a plane through heavy turbulence, then blaming the flight attendants when the passengers get jittery.

WHAT, WaPo?! THE GOD-DAMNED PLANE HAS CRASHED INTO THE MOUNTAIN.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 3:13 PM on May 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


If it's bad enough Ryan could even position himself as Savior of The Republican Party, the man who ousted that criminal Trump.

If I'm trying to write an ending to this preposterous story it's that Paul Ryan has been involved the whole time because he sees himself as the American Putin. Trump was tricked into the whole thing because he's so stupid and corrupt, he takes the fall and takes a few with him, Ryan is President. Everyone in the line of succession is involved or complicit, so it doesn't matter exactly how it plays out.

I know it's a ridiculous ending, but look what I had to work with. How did this get made?
posted by bongo_x at 3:17 PM on May 13, 2017


North Korea Carries Out New Missile Test

Yes, I've lived in Seoul since 2002
posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:17 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


Weird timing, this missile test, considering "North Korea 'would hold talks' with Trump administration"

There is an ancient Vulcan proverb:
Only Trump could go to North Korea.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 3:19 PM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump is in some ways like a pilot opting to fly a plane through heavy turbulence, then blaming the flight attendants when the passengers get jittery.

The other problem with this analogy is that there hasn’t been any significant turbulence, the problems are completely self-inflicted.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 3:21 PM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


Controlled flight into terrain, under the loosest possible definition of "controlled."
posted by Behemoth at 3:23 PM on May 13, 2017 [8 favorites]


It seems very well supported to claim that radical (to an unknown degree) change is always inevitable. I think that's something that both conservatives (more precisely reactionaries, I suppose) and revolutionaries fail to recognise​. Not recognising it seems like a massive failure, because the best way to prepare for radical change is to reform and improve the system as it is, in the hope that you can make those decent institutions we already have sufficiently robust to survive and adapt to radical change and thereby improve the next equilibrium.

It's also best because it doesn't require you to be an appalling prick about the welfare of real people. Accelerationism is a particularly despicable creed, because what kind of person cares about the nature of a theoretical future society more than actual people's lives right now?

If I think about my own field of work, housing, it seems pretty obvious that, drastic reform being needed, accelerationists would have to hold that the sticking plaster sort of work I do is a net negative. People working in UK housing provision, law etc are holding together a system that is manifestly unfit for purpose. But you'd have to be a monster to think that justifies, e.g., not at least trying to get decent accommodation for some of the UK's tens of thousands of homeless families when you're given the opportunity.
posted by howfar at 3:25 PM on May 13, 2017 [16 favorites]


Controlled. #withsomeexceptions
posted by stonepharisee at 3:26 PM on May 13, 2017 [19 favorites]


also there are snakes on the plane and samuel l jackson is john mccain so he's sitting quietly in his seat with a disapproving expression on his face.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:26 PM on May 13, 2017 [15 favorites]


obvious conclusion to Trump As Pilot analogy: when the plane crashes into a mountain, he blames the mountain for being in the wrong place.

the current headlines show that the worst things happening are being done by the most competent people in the Trump Administration, so the last thing we need is more competent leadership there.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:37 PM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


The conversation has moved along, but I'm now realizing, apropos of the Submission Meatloaf and the Ice Cream Scoops and the general high-pressure humiliation tactics at dinner: Donald Trump is Doctor Fischer, and every night is the Porridge Party.
posted by jackbishop at 3:41 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


Researcher's Note, POI-45-A:
This is what happens when you forget to power up the Scranton Reality Anchors before fooling around with alternative timelines. Don't say I didn't warn you. - Bright
posted by maxwelton at 3:44 PM on May 13, 2017 [15 favorites]


zachlipton: The best analysis the New York Times could get is a guy who reduces a person to simply "bad" or "good" and declares anyone who thinks maaaaaaybe there's a little more nuance around why and how something is done a hypocrite?

Also, his account is factually inaccurate. They didn't reopen the email investigation. This wording always made it seem like something important was found, instead of duplicate emails that they should've cross-checked with the other ones before making national news. FBI just keeps investigations open for a very long time in case new info comes in. In 2016 they finally closed the 1971 DB Cooper hijacking case after 45 years.
posted by bluecore at 3:46 PM on May 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


i'd like to think comey would summarily dismantle trump's dumb meatsack bodyguard like how in movies the spies always do to dumb meatsack bodyguards

So would I, but as things unravel I'd like even more to know how this bodyguard person influences US politics. He seems to be a thug and an idiot (well, doh, since he's working for Trump), but also perhaps even more influential than Ivanka and Jared.


I'm just glad it isn't Steven Segal.
posted by srboisvert at 3:48 PM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


The New York Times invited Erik Erikson to write stupid shit

Alas but I can only cancel once
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:48 PM on May 13, 2017 [20 favorites]


The New York Times invited Erik Erikson to write stupid shit

I can even but I refuse to on general principal.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:51 PM on May 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


He thinks he's Gerard Butler in Olympus Has Fallen, turns out he's Steven Segal just kinda hanging out with Joe Arpaio.
posted by valkane at 3:54 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


And before that he was one of the men who incited violent Twitter mobs to threaten women who had the gall to have opinions about games. The people who followed him then are the same garbage that follow him now.

That's been one of the most difficult things of the last couple years for me. Anyone who was into games culture in 2015 got a preview of the horrible future. I felt like some kind of social crisis hipster this winter when people would ask me "so you hear about this Milo Yanno...popolus guy?" and I'd have to decide whether or not to tell them there's been such a thing as videogame terrorists for awhile now and I've hated them since before you even heard of them. Same feeling with Cernovich. Social media corporations, law enforcement organizations and the press all failed to do something about these evil fucks when they were tadpoles, and now the Pepe infestation is everybody's problem.
posted by EatTheWeek at 3:55 PM on May 13, 2017 [78 favorites]


If you believe that simple mathematical insight gives you licence to fuck with the lives of millions, we appear to have a Platonic problem on our hands!
Harold Finch: [to The Machine in a flashback to 2003] You asked me to teach you chess and I've done that. It's a useful mental exercise. Through the years many thinkers have been fascinated by it. But, I don't enjoy playing. Do you know why not?

[Receives a 'No' reply on his cellphone]

Harold Finch: Because it was a game that was born during a brutal age when life counted for little and everyone believed that some people were worth more than others. Kings and pawns. I don't think that anyone is worth more than anyone else. I don't envy you the decisions you're going to have to make. And one day I'll be gone. And you'll have no one to talk to. But, if you remember nothing else, then please remember this. Chess is just a game. Real people aren't pieces. You can't assign more value to some of them than to others. Not to me. Not to anyone. People are not a thing that you can sacrifice. The lesson is... that anyone who looks on the world as if it was a game a chess deserves to lose.
posted by mikelieman at 3:56 PM on May 13, 2017 [85 favorites]


There seems to be a strong selection pressure for the belief that some people are worth more than others, though, even today.
posted by Coventry at 4:14 PM on May 13, 2017




Wow, that's an awesome quote. Google tells me it's from a TV show called Person of Interest. Is the show as good as that quote? Because again, that's a good quote.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:33 PM on May 13, 2017 [8 favorites]


WSJ: Former Employees of Donald Trump Say They Saw Him Tape Conversations
As a businessman, Mr. Trump sometimes taped phone conversations with associates and others from his Trump Tower office in New York, according to three people who say they have direct knowledge of the recordings.

Mr. Trump had one or more recording devices that he used to tape his phone calls from his office, the three people said. All are former high-level employees who worked for Mr. Trump over a span of three decades. They said they saw devices in use recording phone calls.

A fourth person said he knew that Mr. Trump had recorded a phone conversation with him because it was later entered into evidence in a lawsuit.
posted by zachlipton at 4:35 PM on May 13, 2017 [15 favorites]


Wow, that's an awesome quote. Google tells me it's from a TV show called Person of Interest. Is the show as good as that quote? Because again, that's a good quote.

Yes, it is. Starts off as a techno-procedural, but quickly moves into discussing the ethics of surveillance and artificial intelligence, among other things.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:41 PM on May 13, 2017 [24 favorites]


[accelerationism] is generally favored by the kind of dumb asshole who thinks they are really smart.

There is definitely a kind of blindness associated with it, but you don't have to think you're clever in order to be seduced by it. It helps, because that's the kind of thing that would lead you to believe you have total solutions to the world's problems (or that you can generate them at will). But anybody who is blind to the merits of the status quo or even is simply incurious about how the status quo functions and why can get there pretty easy.
posted by wildblueyonder at 4:41 PM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


I would say that accelerationism is more a philosophy of privilege than one of incuriousity or stupidy. But we don't really have a way to test any of these theories.
posted by Justinian at 4:45 PM on May 13, 2017 [10 favorites]


Yeah, we went through this back in the ol' 60's: "Dump the Hump. Let's get Nixon in there, bring down the whole thing faster". Awkward!
posted by Chitownfats at 4:47 PM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


WSJ: Former Employees of Donald Trump Say They Saw Him Tape Conversations

"Michael Cohen, Mr. Trump’s personal attorney, said, “In the decade that I worked for Mr. Trump, I have never seen a recording device attached to his phone, nor am I aware of any occasion where he taped a conversation.”

Two paragraphs above that:
A fourth person said he knew that Mr. Trump had recorded a phone conversation with him because it was later entered into evidence in a lawsuit.
Well, if Mr. Cohen did not represent Trump in that lawsuit, he knows now. I eagerly await his updated statement.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:51 PM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Yeah, we went through this back in the ol' 60's: "Dump the Hump. Let's get Nixon in there, bring down the whole thing faster". Awkward!
posted by Chitownfats at 4:47 PM


Really? That would make sense. In general I have this hunch that there is something here about baby-boomers that I can't pin down, but that is really significant for understanding wtf is going on right now
posted by mumimor at 4:52 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


Tillerson signs international declaration recognizing climate change

"The move appears at odds with the Trump administration's broad skepticism of climate change and comes at a time when President Trump is weighing a potential withdrawal from the Paris Agreement on fighting its effects."
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:53 PM on May 13, 2017 [30 favorites]


mumimor : It was about half "Dump the Hump" in support of Eugene McCarthy and half what I said.
posted by Chitownfats at 4:56 PM on May 13, 2017


So since we're all playing Presidential Succession Fantasy Baseball today, where do we stand on military coup?

My ideal fantasy situation is: Trump and Pence are both impeached. Ryan starts to get excited, except they cast a vote of no confidence in the house to remove him from office, thus passing it to Hatch. Hatch passes it up, solemnly. Meanwhile, Tillerson and Mnuchin have been met in the dead of night by a cabal of hard-eyed Marines, and they also decline the Presidency, passing it to James Mattis. Mattis spends his entire term repairing the damage of Trump as a sacred trust.
posted by corb at 5:03 PM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


Nothing is easier or more pathetic than being a critic.
With almost 1.3 million followers and rising really fast, everyone is asking me to critique things(and people). Finally, I will be a critic.
@realDonaldTrump
posted by kirkaracha at 5:06 PM on May 13, 2017 [10 favorites]


If you really want to go down a succession hole, dive into the questions about whether Paul Ryan is even in line, and the definition of "officer."
posted by rhizome at 5:08 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Nothing is easier or more pathetic than being a critic."

Why doesn't he just go full Nietzsche: "One man in the arena is worth a thousand carping critics"?

"Donny, do you like gladiator movies?"
posted by Chitownfats at 5:11 PM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


"Nothing is easier or more pathetic than being a critic."

"The Critic," Samuel Johnson
Criticism is a study by which men grow important and formidable at a very small expence. The power of invention has been conferred by Nature upon few, and the labour of learning those sciences which may, by mere labour, be obtained, is too great to be willingly endured; but every man can exert such judgment as he has upon the works of others; and he whom Nature has made weak, and Idleness keeps ignorant, may yet support his vanity by the name of a Critic.

I hope it will give comfort to great numbers who are passing through the world in obscurity, when I inform them how easily distinction may be obtained. All the other powers of literature are coy and haughty, they must be long courted, and at last are not always gained; but Criticism is a goddess easy of access and forward of advance, who will meet the slow and encourage the timorous; the want of meaning she supplies with words, and the want of spirit she recompenses with malignity.

This profession has one recommendation peculiar to itself, that it gives vent to malignity without real mischief. No genius was ever blasted by the breath of Critics. The poison which if confined, would have burst the heart, fumes away in empty hisses, and malice is set at ease with very little danger to merit. The Critic is the only man whose triumph is without another's pain, and whose greatness does not rise upon another's ruin.

To a study at once so easy and so reputable, so malicious and so harmless, it cannot be necessary to invite my readers by a long or laboured exhortation; it is sufficient, since all would be Critics if they could, to show by one eminent example that all can be Critics if they will.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:11 PM on May 13, 2017 [6 favorites]




accelerationism?

no, we are simply at a point where the system may be stretched to the breaking point - there's plenty of instances where someone pushes too hard and ends up upsetting the applecart without intending to

the accelerant may have already been applied and now the toddler in chief is playing with matches

no one ever voted for the civil war - or world war 1 - or world war 2 - we don't get to vote, we don't get to choose

we do get to be as prepared for it as we can and possibly have some kind of plan on how we should react and what we should demand

it's quite possible the car is running out of gas - getting out the horsewhip of a 200 plus year old legal document and beating the car with it isn't going to work if that happens

i don't know if i trust our political parties to do it right and i don't know if anyone will

to be specific, if both trump and pence are removed and ryan was given a vote of no confidence - (but that would have to be beforehand, wouldn't it? - afterwards, he'd be president and no vote would be possible) - there could be a real case to be made that the new speaker of the house would by rights be the new president - but of course, the nimrods in the congress won't be able to choose one

we can speculate all we want, but i know this - if the succession goes down further than the vp, the results will not be regarded as legitimate by many people, even if it's constitutional

i wonder if enough democrats will fear the chaos of this result - or want to delay until 2018 when they can perhaps have their own speaker

it's a clusterfuck - and it's already in motion - and the only way to be sure it doesn't happen is to keep trump in office - which is a disaster in itself

we're past acceleration - the question is, how fast?
posted by pyramid termite at 5:16 PM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


I would say that accelerationism is more a philosophy of privilege than one of incuriousity or stupidy.

I think you're right, but it also requires a lack of empathy (which is, of course, something that privilege encourages). Because I think some of us have a tendency that can foster accelerationist views: a reaction of genuinely shameful joy when bad things happen that make things we oppose look bad, and seem to damage their cause. So, for example, sometimes I read bad economic news and feel good because it supports the idea that, e.g., austerity isn't good for the economy. But that's when empathy and conscience kick in and tell me I'm being a stupid, callous dick, that that news isn't a score in a game, it's an aggregate record of misery in the lives of millions of people. So then I feel ashamed and resolve to try harder to be a decent person. I can't really claim to know how other people privately feel, but while I'm confident that there are lots of people who are more compassionate than me by instinct, I am equally confident that there are lots of people who have to do the same sort of self-policing I need in order to function as an approximation of a decent person.
posted by howfar at 5:18 PM on May 13, 2017 [18 favorites]


So Trump thought being a critic was great when it meant making up stuff about Obama's birth certificate, but finds dislikes being critiqued when he fires the FBI Director in the middle of an investigation into his campaign? Glad we had that stated so explicitly.
posted by zachlipton at 5:21 PM on May 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


Somewhere deep in the bowels of hell, Alexander Haig runs a shower, takes an Alka-Seltzer, pops some pills, looks in the mirror, and with opens hands, his fingers spread wide, says, "It's showtime, folks!"
posted by Room 641-A at 5:22 PM on May 13, 2017 [16 favorites]


The handful of serious accelerationists I know are very smart, very educated, and extraordinarily empathetic--but, for whatever zany, misguided reason, they place their empathy on future generations more than on people living now who will be harmed or dead by the disruption they wish for. It's a sort of bizarre hypothetical utilitarian trolley problem logic.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:24 PM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


It seems to me that Trump's more radical supporters don't get it: We need the swamp! In good times they facilitate, make the difficult easy, in bad times they repair the structures and patch the holes.
posted by Chitownfats at 5:26 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


Trump's more radical supporters want to drop you and me out of a helicopter. You're talking about his regular supporters.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:28 PM on May 13, 2017 [40 favorites]


Yeah, I just don't see that there's any way that Pence gets implicated in such a way that his impeachment is necessary for/to Republicans. I also don't see Ryan pulling the trigger on a process (technically it would be House Judiciary, with Chairman Bob Goodlatte and Ranking Member Conyers) that puts himself in the Oval Office. He's ambitious, but he's realistic -- and he knows full well that he is seen as a dubious ally at best by the Trumpeters. They would almost as soon burn the place down with him in it as for Hillary. (When 45 came to Janesville last year, he hadn't so much as mentioned Ryan's name when a loud collective boo arose. Ryan spent the fall making statements about "our candidate" or "our party's nominee" because he seemingly couldn't bring himself to say the man's name.)

Ryan would make nice, to be sure, with the evangelicals -- he's Catholic -- though he has always avoided making blatant social conservative campaign pitches, which aren't really in the DNA of his district here.

But yeah, if it were doomsday for the party he'd "reluctantly" step in just as he did for the Speakership. I don't know that he has any idea how to move forward in this climate, because he's movement conservatism through and through (it took him years to finally disavow Ayn Rand, for example). He covers his blunt, divisive policy choices with a veneer of "Wisconsin Nice", but that isn't working for him around here anymore. His electoral district had to be pulled east to the very edge of Janesville, barely a mile or so from his house, so they could go north into Waukesha County (of the infamous cartoon). He won the county facing an inexperienced challenger, but at the same time the county went (fairly reliably) for Clinton by 10 points.

Ideally, probably, Ryan in his own mind would be the guy who unites the party and holds the White House after Trump. His rocky tenure thus far does not really suggest that will go anywhere near as well as he would like, and I think he's enough of a pragmatist to know that, but also enough of an idealist to give it his best shot.

But yeah, if he HAD to step in, he would. I just don't see that scenario playing out, as hard as scenario oddsmaking is for ... well, for the next four hours even these days.
posted by dhartung at 5:30 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


I can't help but wonder if Trump is planning on live announcing Spicer's firing while SNL is on tonight, just to try and grab some of their audience. It must kill him having to share attention with Baldwin-Trump on Saturdays and Sundays.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 5:35 PM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


Cultures produce the leaders that suit them, but Ryan is such a milksop it seems like he can only aspire to figurehead. Not sure how anybody could find any capacity for leadership to fit in that head of his.
posted by rhizome at 5:35 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


lesbiassparrow: someone on Twitter speculated that yesterday. I think since McCarthy could just as easily do Sarah Huckabee Sanders that they may even be rehearsing with both characters. They could also just have an alternate skit with him in the Navy, in a Hawaiian shirt on a beach, waiting in line at Trader Joe's, or any number of fallbacks. Thing about Spicer is that he's probably pretty easy to write into just about any situation.
posted by rhizome at 5:39 PM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


There could be a recurring segment called "Spicer in the bushes" where Spicer goes from the WH to leading the life of an inept cat burglar. Each episode ends with half his face in the bushes as he gives his catchphrase: "Turn off the lights!" Or something like that.

Mostly, give McCarthy work, she's wonderful.
posted by angrycat at 5:43 PM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


Mick Mulvaney: “That doesn’t mean we should take care of the person who sits at home, eats poorly and gets diabetes”
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:48 PM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


SNL should really have Donald Trump (played by Alec Baldwin) host. Then get the rest of Trump's inner circle to be on the show too, as characters played by the cast, and then make the characters try to play characters in sketches. Make it a special episode. Maybe Donald (Baldwin) could finally win that Emmy he always wanted.
posted by Glibpaxman at 5:50 PM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


“That doesn’t mean we should take care of the person who sits at home, eats poorly and gets diabetes”

Nuremberg Laws? Who had Mulvaney for the Nuremberg Laws? Okay, circle gets the square. Thanks for playing Nazi-Tac-Toe.
posted by valkane at 5:54 PM on May 13, 2017 [23 favorites]


What about the people who ruin their lungs working in the coal industry?
posted by peeedro at 5:55 PM on May 13, 2017 [14 favorites]




“That doesn’t mean we should take care of the person who sits at home, eats poorly and gets diabetes”

I'm sure the Juvenile Diabetes Foundation will have some pointed words about this...
posted by mikelieman at 6:01 PM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


Reading this at 2am kept me from falling back asleep. In case anyone needs an antidote to the impeachment fantasies...

Hidden Clues In The Trump-Comey Drama: It's Worse Than You Think
The Justice Department, for its part, firmly denies that Comey made any demand asking them for extra help on Kremlingate. Stay focused on this specific point for a moment. It speaks volumes, for this is how bureaucracies start to eat each other with a populist at the helm inciting deliberate crossfires.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:03 PM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


“That doesn’t mean we should take care of the person who sits at home, eats poorly and gets diabetes”


The President is 2 for 3 on that one, although an examination by an actually qualified medical professional might change that... I'm just saying.
posted by palomar at 6:04 PM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


[accelerationism] is generally favored by the kind of dumb asshole who thinks they are really smart.

Basically a kind of religious apocalypticism favored by those who (usually) wouldn't admit to being religious.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:07 PM on May 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


What about the people who ruin their lungs working in the coal industry?

I think it's safe to say that Mike Mulvaney thinks if that persons lungs aren't strong enough to mine coal, that person should die. Next question.
posted by valkane at 6:07 PM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


Mulvaney's got it right. Thats why from now on before you're even allowed through the doors of the emergency department there will be a quick screening to make sure you've lived an upright and righteous life in full compliance with evidence based lifestyle advice. If you are found to be in breach you will be redirected to the nearest ditch which is sufficient for your healthcare needs, you lazy immoral animal.

And btw don't think you can fool the system, you will be breathalyzed for donuts on arrival.
posted by supercrayon at 6:07 PM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


“That doesn’t mean we should take care of the person who sits at home, eats poorly and gets diabetes”

I'm sure the Juvenile Diabetes Foundation will have some pointed words about this...


Mulvaney knows what he's doing. He's not saying that Good People Who Happen To Get SIck shouldn't be taken care of, he's saying that if we let just any old person to get health care, then Bad People Who Deserve To Get Sick will take advantage of it. The central unspoken tenet of modern American conservatism is "It is better for 99 Good People Who Deserve Something not to get it than for one Bad Person Who Doesn't Deserve Something to get it."
posted by Etrigan at 6:07 PM on May 13, 2017 [75 favorites]


And yeah hilarous coming from the party whose titular head's recent scandal involved double ice cream.
posted by supercrayon at 6:09 PM on May 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


I, for one, am really looking forward to universal healthcare so I can get fat and diabetic without facing the consequences of my irresponsible eating habits. #futureliberalswant
posted by Coventry at 6:13 PM on May 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


And yeah hilarous coming from the party whose titular head's recent scandal involved double ice cream.

Trump's wealth and success prove that he was chosen by God to receive double ice cream. Away thee, Satan.
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:13 PM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


This fucking Fox interview is (of course) surreal. I'm not even going to try to pick out the crazy, as I'm sure some dozen journalists will. Basically it's more of the same, jumbled, narcissistic rambling.
posted by Room 101 at 6:16 PM on May 13, 2017


Sean Spicer among the bushes this afternoon in Cambridge, MA (outside the Porter Square Shopping Center).
posted by adamg at 6:17 PM on May 13, 2017 [15 favorites]


Updated Trump Doctor Letter by Megan Amram‏ [fake]
posted by guiseroom at 6:25 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


The whole ice cream thing is just government as business. I used to sit in company-catered lunch meetings with the ceo of a large media company, and while everyone else got cold sub tray sandwiches and chips, he always got a bacon cheeseburger with french fries. It was a social signifier that he was our better. Not only did he make more money, but he also ate higher on the food chain. And the company paid for it.

If modern day ceos (or trump) thought they could get away with it, they would wear crowns.
posted by valkane at 6:33 PM on May 13, 2017 [56 favorites]


If by "bad" you mean "black." Or anyone who's not white and Christian, really.

goes without saying.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:39 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


If by "bad" you mean "black." Or anyone who's not white and Christian, really.

I would go a step further and say "anyone who is not in power." These people will eat their own.
posted by valkane at 6:42 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


Mick Mulvaney: “That doesn’t mean we should take care of the person who sits at home, eats poorly and gets diabetes”

You can tell he's an atheist because nobody could believe in god knowing that god is going to send their insufferable, uncaring, ghoulish ass to hell for an eternity. Maybe he figures he'll get to the top of the org chart by increasing misery on the cheap which appears to be his specialty.

At some point I break and he's done it. Someone so cartoonishly evil I would happily take him into an alley with a clue-by-four to educate.
posted by Talez at 6:45 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


make sure you've lived an upright and righteous life in full compliance with evidence based lifestyle advice.

No worries me!

And btw don't think you can fool the system, you will be breathalyzed for donuts on arrival.

. . . Crap! Uh, I thought it was a styrofoam cake! The Chinese were about to eat all our doughnuts, believe me! . . It . . heh . . The doughnuts made me sign a loyalty oath! I'm still under a Crueller audit! Hey . . Turn the lights off! You're the puppet!

/exeunt
posted by petebest at 6:47 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


It is
posted by Jalliah at 6:54 PM on May 13, 2017


>“That doesn’t mean we should take care of the person who sits at home, eats poorly and gets diabetes”

Wikipedia says two out of every three Americans are considered to be overweight or obese.

So... who are they playing to? With whom does this horseshit go over well?
posted by Sing Or Swim at 6:55 PM on May 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


Expect a lot more "leopards eating faces" stories from the "rust belt" if trumpcare gets passed.
posted by maxwelton at 6:55 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


So... who are they playing to? With whom does this horseshit go over well?

The 1%. The people who own the republican party.
posted by valkane at 6:58 PM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


With whom does this horseshit go over well?

No one who voted for Trump (or is a republican, for that matter) would ever see themselves in that sort of criticism. No matter how circumferentially-challenged they were.
posted by maxwelton at 6:59 PM on May 13, 2017 [10 favorites]


WaPo: White House ‘systems failed’ with Comey firing, but Trump pushed the buttons

r317 linked this upthread, but there's an important line in here:
Inside the West Wing, it became a running joke among some staffers that the answer to every question would be “Rosenstein,” referring to the deputy attorney general, Rod J. Rosenstein, who wrote a memo outlining a case for Comey’s ouster.
This is a guy who has spent 27 years working for the Department of Justice, under both parties, with seemingly nobody having an unkind word to say about him until now. In two weeks on the job, he blew all that up and became a punchline inside the White House. Sooner or later, Donald Trump destroys everybody who gets close to him.
posted by zachlipton at 7:00 PM on May 13, 2017 [47 favorites]


Hopefully he's seen as a canary in the coal mine.
posted by rhizome at 7:03 PM on May 13, 2017


Comey's the canary. Rosenstein's one of the workers denied coverage for black lung.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:06 PM on May 13, 2017 [15 favorites]


Whatever Rosenstein was, he's a Trump collaborator now. He has the means of getting to the bottom of the Russia scandal in his hands, right this moment he could appoint a special counsel, and refused. He's no better than Sessions or Chaffetz or Pence, he's fully complicit in the coverup.

He didn't get conned by Trump, he walked in eyes wide open after Trump fired Sally Yates and willingly joined the conspiracy to commit treason.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:07 PM on May 13, 2017 [55 favorites]


He's a winner! He's gonna win so much he hates it.
posted by valkane at 7:09 PM on May 13, 2017


The whole ice cream thing is just government as business. I used to sit in company-catered lunch meetings with the ceo of a large media company, and while everyone else got cold sub tray sandwiches and chips, he always got a bacon cheeseburger with french fries. It was a social signifier that he was our better. Not only did he make more money, but he also ate higher on the food chain.

See also sumptuary laws. It's even more like government as, rather than business, aristocracy during the entire history of humanity.
posted by XMLicious at 7:11 PM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


Everybody's favorite Louise Mensch along with Claude Taylor are claiming there is a sealed indictment against Trump.
posted by waitingtoderail at 7:12 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


Sooner or later, Donald Trump destroys everybody who gets close to him.

All who collaborate with Trump suffer the transformation into Dignity Wraith
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:14 PM on May 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


Chris Christie was the canary in the coal mine! It's been a matter of public record since then that if you stick your neck out for Trump, there's a good chance he'll just kick you to the curb.

Well, especially if you put Jared Kushner's father in jail...
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:16 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


Everybody's favorite Louise Mensch along with Claude Taylor are claiming there is a sealed indictment against Trump.

Louise Mensch hahahahaha
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:17 PM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


What exactly is the deal with Louise Mensch? I see people I respect retweeting her, I see people I respect rolling their eyes at her...

She's been a dishonest liar in every previous part of her career, but appears to have at least some IC sources. It's just hard to know how much she's lying about that but lucky.
posted by jaduncan at 7:18 PM on May 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


What exactly is the deal with Louise Mensch? I see people I respect retweeting her, I see people I respect rolling their eyes at her...

It's wishful thinking on their parts. Mensch knows nothing. Nothing. There is no sealed indictment against Trump right now. It's utter lunacy.
posted by Justinian at 7:19 PM on May 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


With whom does this horse shit go over well?

Mike Pence?

(sorry)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 7:19 PM on May 13, 2017 [8 favorites]


(I am in the school of thought that says that she's a liar who has got lucky on occasion).
posted by jaduncan at 7:19 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


You know who else is a liar who has got lucky on occasion?
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:21 PM on May 13, 2017 [16 favorites]


Trump's performance with Lester Holt is somewhat reminiscent of the courtroom scene at the end of the Caine Mutiny when Queeg melts down and shows he is unfit for duty.
posted by caddis at 7:21 PM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm pretty sure she had the exact same source we do, jumps to the exact same conclusions, and then there's a kind of wishful thinking that goes on because someone with a veneer of importance agrees with us.
posted by Artw at 7:22 PM on May 13, 2017


You know who else is a liar who makes their living on twitter?
posted by valkane at 7:22 PM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


She tends to throw a LOT of stuff out there, a couple of things have stuck. She's claimed that something like 215 different people are Russian agents. That sort of thing. Anyone who questions her is "Ivan."
posted by waitingtoderail at 7:23 PM on May 13, 2017


That Mensch/Taylor blog post is something else. "Look, we know it doesn't make sense for the FBI to have a sealed indictment against Trump, but trust us, they're doing it for the speculative fiction in which this Congress indicts Trump."
posted by Coventry at 7:24 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


This may have been posted in other threads, so I apologize if so, but I had not seen it before:

Donald Trump: A True Narcissistic Sociopath

Despite its title, it's really a close focus on his hideous business practices, explotiations, refusals to pay, harassment of tenants, nuisance lawsuits, etc .Apparently it was made in the late 90s. I can't find much out about its origins, but having grown up in the NY area in this era, it is pretty straightforward stuff. This is also why people in this region and in NYC in particular are a lot more deeply cynical about the guy - lots of experience. When people say he seems to be "losing it" and argue for dementia, etc., it's this kind of material that should make clear no, he's always been this way.
posted by Miko at 7:37 PM on May 13, 2017 [29 favorites]


Mensch is literally in the same group as Cernovich and Yiannannannopoulos.

Her current celebrity is due to GamerGate. She's literally forged from the same alt-right cauldron as them.
posted by Yowser at 7:39 PM on May 13, 2017 [12 favorites]


Did not know that but it totally jibes.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:41 PM on May 13, 2017


The official @GOP Twitter account is now being used to defend Trump getting more ice cream than his guests: "Apparently @POTUS likes two scoops of ice cream after dinner. We can’t disagree that two is better than one."

The GOP has a social media person spending their time defending bad manners.


“Rank hath privilege” is about as established a principle of Conservatism as there could be.
posted by acb at 7:42 PM on May 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


Case in point
https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch/status/833709898718384131
posted by Yowser at 7:43 PM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


“Rank hath privilege” is about as established a principle of Conservatism as there could be.

while the liberal counterprinciple would be privilege is rank
posted by pyramid termite at 7:46 PM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


she's not a mensch, she's a meshuggener schlump imho
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:49 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


Mensch is literally in the same group as Cernovich and Yiannannannopoulos.

Her current celebrity is due to GamerGate. She's literally forged from the same alt-right cauldron as them.


Louise Mensch (née Louise Bagshawe) started her career as a writer of the kinds of books one finds in airport bookshops. She churned out a lucrative number of them, before she found that she could make more of a name for herself writing right-wing clickbait. In either line of work, neither integrity nor rigor is central.
posted by acb at 7:53 PM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


I think Neither Integrity Nor Rigor was her third romantic novel.
posted by valkane at 7:55 PM on May 13, 2017 [11 favorites]


In Wisconsin, ID law proved insurmountable for many voters

Black voter turnout wasn't down, it was all suppression.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:01 PM on May 13, 2017 [59 favorites]


If modern day ceos (or trump) thought they could get away with it, they would wear crowns

Just you wait until his birthday.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:08 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


Uhhh, the White House statement on the North Korean missile test is bonkers:
With the missile impacting so close to Russian soil in fact, closer to Russia than to Japan the President cannot imagine that Russia is pleased.
posted by zachlipton at 8:09 PM on May 13, 2017 [16 favorites]


I mean, does anyone believe Russia isn't in control of our nuclear codes already? They're openly acting like a client state.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:10 PM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Is that statement as bizarre as I think it is?

It's what you'd expect to read from the President of Uzbekistan or Kyrgyzstan.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:14 PM on May 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


With the missile impacting so close to Russian soil in fact, closer to Russia than to Japan the President cannot imagine that Russia is pleased.

If this is real, this passage has Trump's (tiny) fingerprints all over it.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 8:14 PM on May 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


the President cannot imagine that Russia is as anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:15 PM on May 13, 2017 [21 favorites]


The official @GOP Twitter account is now being used to defend Trump getting more ice cream than his guests: "Apparently @POTUS likes two scoops of ice cream after dinner. We can’t disagree that two is better than one."

This is actually pretty progressive of @GOP and I expect they will get in trouble with the party orthodoxy for suggesting that the appropriate distribution of ice-cream wealth is merely 2:1 rather than say 14:0.
posted by srboisvert at 8:15 PM on May 13, 2017 [17 favorites]


With the missile impacting so close to Russian soil in fact, closer to Russia than to Japan the President cannot imagine that Russia is pleased.

If this is real, this passage has Trump's (tiny) fingerprints all over it.


In the run-up to the election, one of the Trumpists' arguments was that a T. Rump residency would being us rapprochement with Russia. I think in some part of his mind Lil' Trimpy thinks he is being statesmanlike by reaching out to the Russians, again, personally oblivious to the optics. (Or it could be boundary-testing by Bannon or someone else.)
posted by dhens at 8:17 PM on May 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm 💯 certain that Trump was told it landed near Russia and thought, man, Vladimir is going to be pissed, they're in trouble now, Imma tell them they're in trouble now
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:17 PM on May 13, 2017 [13 favorites]


Those reporters each received a scoop of ice cream at government expense. Were they drug tested first? Did someone confirm they have basically no assets first, thus ensuring they remain in poverty forever because they can't ever build up any kind of savings no matter what? Did they have to produce four different documents from four different agencies, requiring hours-long bus trips to reach each one during limited weekday hours? Were they subjected to bureaucratic rituals designed to make them feel bad about themselves before they were given the ice cream? That's the GOP way.
posted by zachlipton at 8:18 PM on May 13, 2017 [42 favorites]


So, are GOP leadership suffering from sunken costs? As in, are they just going to wait and wait and wait for AHCA and tax cuts while... all of this... is happening above them?
posted by Slackermagee at 8:20 PM on May 13, 2017


This is a whole new paradigm, influencing the world not through brute force or through diplomacy but by telling people that Vladimir Putin is gonna be so mad yes he is
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:21 PM on May 13, 2017 [17 favorites]


He's worried Daddy Putin is gonna be mad!
posted by Justinian at 8:22 PM on May 13, 2017


Was just thinking about Sessions reviving the draconian drug sentencing laws. Anyone else Thinking he's going to selectively apply them in the blue states that have legalized weed?
posted by Sublimity at 8:25 PM on May 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


SNL comes out swinging mocking the Trump-Lester Holt interview, with Holt frustrated that no admittance will nail Trump, Ryan as a soda shoppe guy bringing Trump two scoops of ice cream, and more.
posted by TwoStride at 8:32 PM on May 13, 2017 [11 favorites]


He might, but I'd be even more concerned about selective application in urban centers regardless of the state.
posted by Justinian at 8:33 PM on May 13, 2017


If by 'urban centers' you mean 'anywhere brown people are', then yes, I rather suspect that and the ensuing disenfranchisement is indeed central to the Sessions plan.
posted by jaduncan at 8:35 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'd be even more concerned about selective application in urban centers regardless of the state

You mean, like what already happens?
posted by aspersioncast at 8:36 PM on May 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


Hey guise, I'm not going to live blog SNL, but since they opened with part two of the Lester Holt interview and made a small dick joke I just wanted to say, it's been nice knowing you all. I expect the bombing to start before the musical guest.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:37 PM on May 13, 2017 [8 favorites]


Sessions draconian drug sentence direction has everything to do with the fact that private prisons were losing money after the DOJ stopped recommending mandatory minimum sentences. And he hates weed, personally. Yes, we can expect to see a crackdown in states where its legal. States rights only matter for things like suppression of votes and women.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:37 PM on May 13, 2017 [15 favorites]


I saw speculation that it is also jingling keys to distract from Sessions's non-recusal over Comey's firing.
posted by sebastienbailard at 8:40 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


Those reporters each received a scoop of ice cream at government expense.

when i was young, they used to give you a scoop of ice cream when they removed your tonsils

i didn't know they gave you a scoop when they removed your balls
posted by pyramid termite at 8:42 PM on May 13, 2017 [17 favorites]






Well spicer and trump just made out on snl.
posted by ian1977 at 9:07 PM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Well then. Unless someone can keep Trump from seeing a single second of SNL, Spicer's out on his ass next week.
posted by yasaman at 9:08 PM on May 13, 2017 [9 favorites]


I don't think they let him watch anymore

They probably put benadryl in his ice cream on saturdays
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:10 PM on May 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


Yeah, sure, "benadryl."
posted by contraption at 9:13 PM on May 13, 2017 [2 favorites]






This is fine.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:34 PM on May 13, 2017 [8 favorites]




These traitorous shits would be terrified to be inside the beltway at night.

justifiably, if I see 'em
posted by aspersioncast at 9:41 PM on May 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


"Apparently @POTUS likes two scoops of ice cream after dinner. We can’t disagree that two is better than one."

Okay, now this is just the last straw.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 9:42 PM on May 13, 2017 [89 favorites]


Wikipedia says two out of every three Americans are considered to be overweight or obese.

So... who are they playing to? With whom does this horseshit go over well?


Really, we don't know how this goes YET? That's obviously a statement that only applies to All Those Diabetics Who Aren't Me, not me, who has really valid reasons for being overweight and can't help it. The only moral abortion is MY abortion, the only justified government assistance is the one that I get, etc.

Leopards, faces, ad infinitum.
posted by threeturtles at 9:44 PM on May 13, 2017 [35 favorites]


Oh geez, I just noticed what Liberty University and the Totes Not a Klan Burn have in common: they wre both in Virginia today.
posted by Yowser at 9:47 PM on May 13, 2017


The alt-right, including white supremacist Richard Spencer, showed up in Charlottesville, VA at a statue of Robert E. Lee, carrying lit torches and chanting “Russia is our friend”.

That is deliciously ironic. They weren't friends of Lee in the slightest.

U.S. Civil War: The US-Russian Alliance that Saved the Union
The most dramatic gestures of cooperation between the Russian Empire and the [Union] United States came in the autumn of 1863, as the Laird rams crisis hung in the balance. On September 24, the Russian Baltic fleet began to arrive in New York harbor. On October 12, the Russian Far East fleet began to arrive in San Francisco. The Russians, judging that they were on the verge of war with Britain and France over the British-fomented Polish insurrection of 1863, had taken this measure to prevent their ships from being bottled up in their home ports by the superior British fleet. These ships were also the tokens of the vast Russian land armies that could be thrown in the scales on a number of fronts, including the northwest frontier of India; the British had long been worried about such an eventuality. In mid-July 1863, French Foreign Minister Droun de Lhuys was offering London the joint occupation of Poland by means of invasion. But the experience of the Confederate commerce raiders had graphically illustrated just how effective even a limited number of warships could be when they turned to commerce raiding, which is what the Russian naval commanders had been ordered to do in case of hostilities. The Russian admirals had also been told that, if the US and Russia were to find themselves at war with Britain and France, the Russian ships should place themselves under Lincoln’s command and operate in synergy with the US Navy against the common enemies. It is thus highly significant that the Russian ships were sent to the United States.
posted by jaduncan at 9:52 PM on May 13, 2017 [12 favorites]


Hopefully he's seen as a canary in the coal mine.

Two Dead Canaries in the Coal Mine
The soft spot, the least tyrant-proof part of the government, is the U.S. Department of Justice and the larger law enforcement and regulatory apparatus of the United States government. The first reason you should fear a Donald Trump presidency is what he would do to the ordinary enforcement functions of the federal government, not the most extraordinary ones…
[Benjamin] Wittes went on to sketch what a would-be tyrant would need to do to effect that sort of change. “He would need to appoint and get confirmed by the Senate the right attorney general,” he wrote. “That's very doable.” Indeed, we now know his name: Jeff Sessions.

Finally, Wittes wrote, “Trump might develop a problem with our redoubtable FBI director, who doesn't leave with the outgoing administration and has stared down a president before. But so what? Bill Clinton didn't get along with his FBI director either. Comey will not be there forever anyway.” Here we are mere months into Trump’s term.

And Comey is already gone.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:54 PM on May 13, 2017 [20 favorites]


That is deliciously ironic. They weren't friends of Lee in the slightest.

It's also funny because Russian Emperor Alexander II outlawed private serfdom in Russia in 1861 (state-owned serfs were freed later). Though I guess that, because Russian serfs were for the most part also white, serfdom would not be as palatable to these jackasses.
posted by dhens at 9:58 PM on May 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


The front page of the NYT website is almost completely scrubbed of any reference to the Comey firing, and has been all day.

The NYT is actively trying to prevent anger against Trump from reaching a critical mass, and has been since the inauguration.

It's a false flag operation the like of which I don't remember seeing in a major MSM player.
posted by jamjam at 10:24 PM on May 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


This is incredible. The vicious cruelty and pettiness of #FuckingRepublicans in North Carolina is unbelievable.

Colin Campbell, News & Observer: At 3 a.m., NC Senate GOP strips education funding from Democrats’ districts
The session finally resumed around 3 a.m., and Republican Sen. Brent Jackson introduced a new budget amendment that he explained would fund more pilot programs combating the opioid epidemic. He cited “a great deal of discussion” about the need for more opioid treatment funding.

Jackson didn’t mention where the additional $1 million would come from: directly from education programs in Senate Democrats’ districts and other initiatives the minority party sought.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:28 PM on May 13, 2017 [78 favorites]


It's a false flag operation the like of which I don't remember seeing in a major MSM player.

It's your contention that the NYT is a tool of the Republican establishment pretending to be legitimate news? So what you're saying is that it is Fake News?

You know who else says that?

Anyway, come on. Also there are two bits on the NYT front page right now about the FBI/Comey although they are indeed pretty small.
posted by Justinian at 10:47 PM on May 13, 2017 [30 favorites]


That's also not what "false flag" means.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:13 AM on May 14, 2017 [32 favorites]


Anyway, come on. Also there are two bits on the NYT front page right now about the FBI/Comey although they are indeed pretty small.

Also, nothing actually happened today or yesterday, and the firing was 4 days ago, so not running new stories about it seems kind of appropriate.
posted by msalt at 12:16 AM on May 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


tbf four days without fresh scandal is unusual for this timeline
posted by ryanrs at 12:20 AM on May 14, 2017 [18 favorites]


Trump's recent tweet 'cannot imagine that Russia is pleased' (with Best Korea missile launch) is just dropping to baseline scandal levels for Trump.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:52 AM on May 14, 2017 [1 favorite]




At DU, the week's events as chronicled by The Ferret .
... The initial story was that the Russia investigation is just an itsy-bitsy teeny-weeny yellow polka-dot investigation, hardly an investigation at all really, but McCabe shat on that one too, and said "Oh boy is it a big investigation, getting bigger every day, it'll be going off to college before you know it, thanks for asking."
posted by valetta at 12:54 AM on May 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Uhhh, the White House statement on the North Korean missile test is bonkers:
But you have to admit "flagrant menace" would be an awesome handle

posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 1:15 AM on May 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


"flagrant menace" would have been a far better title for Star Wars Episode I....
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:21 AM on May 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Whoever cut the song "Only Living Boy in New York" for SNL so that "hey, let your honesty shine shine shine now" hits right on the Trump Tower shot is a clever person.
posted by zachlipton at 1:31 AM on May 14, 2017 [27 favorites]


NYT: Behind China’s $1 Trillion Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

This probably deserves its own FPP, but I'm putting it in here for some perspective.

The initiative, called “One Belt, One Road,” looms on a scope and scale with little precedent in modern history, promising more than $1 trillion in infrastructure and spanning more than 60 countries. To celebrate China’s new global influence, Mr. Xi is gathering dozens of state leaders, including President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, in Beijing on Sunday.

Mr. Xi is aiming to use China’s wealth and industrial know-how to create a new kind of globalization that will dispense with the rules of the aging Western-dominated institutions. The goal is to refashion the global economic order, drawing countries and companies more tightly into China’s orbit.

posted by mumimor at 2:04 AM on May 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


I'm not sure if you really want Trump to cancel those press briefings.

You know that means you'll soon have your own State TV, the Throat and Tongue of the Glorious Old Party.

Oh, I nearly forgot you already have Sputnik News and Fox for that.
posted by runcifex at 2:08 AM on May 14, 2017


The goal is to refashion the global economic order, drawing countries and companies more tightly into China’s orbit.

I know there were a lot of issues with the TPP, but I am pretty sure the reason Obama (and at one time Clinton) supported it was to prevent exactly this.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:11 AM on May 14, 2017 [14 favorites]


I'm not convinced a lot of the anti-TPP folks knew what TPP did.
posted by Justinian at 2:15 AM on May 14, 2017 [36 favorites]


Nobody knew global trade was hard.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:20 AM on May 14, 2017 [16 favorites]


On Louise Mensch’s credibility: she claimed that riots in Ferguson were funded by Russia.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 2:31 AM on May 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


What are a few of your issues with it? I never really grokked the lefts opposition beyond "NEOLIBERAL BAD".
posted by Justinian at 2:44 AM on May 14, 2017 [4 favorites]



My main objection was the expansion of the investor-state dispute settlement system.


That is indeed a thing to object. But isn't it an American issue? Couldn't the US just have taken that off the table and made everyone happy?
posted by mumimor at 3:02 AM on May 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


NYT: Behind China’s $1 Trillion Plan to Shake Up the Economic Order

This probably deserves its own FPP, but I'm putting it in here for some perspective.

The initiative, called “One Belt, One Road,” looms on a scope and scale with little precedent in modern history, promising more than $1 trillion in infrastructure and spanning more than 60 countries. To celebrate China’s new global influence, Mr. Xi is gathering dozens of state leaders, including President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, in Beijing on Sunday.

Mr. Xi is aiming to use China’s wealth and industrial know-how to create a new kind of globalization that will dispense with the rules of the aging Western-dominated institutions. The goal is to refashion the global economic order, drawing countries and companies more tightly into China’s orbit.
Wiki: The costs of the 2003-2010 Iraq War are often contested, as academics and critics have unearthed many hidden costs not represented in official estimates. The most recent major report on these costs come from Brown University in the form of the Costs of War, which totaled just over $1.1 trillion. The Department of Defense's direct spending on Iraq totaled at least $757.8 billion, but also highlighting the complementary costs at home, such as interest paid on the funds borrowed to finance the wars.
Left without comment.
posted by jaduncan at 3:05 AM on May 14, 2017 [38 favorites]


So in a few places people have talked about dead-man switches that Comey may have set up, e.g "We will soon know from whatever legal and political time-delay fuses Comey left behind." from the Forbes article linked recently, or the loyalty-pledge dinner leaks.

What does that metaphor mean, in the context of the FBI and firings?
posted by harriet vane at 4:06 AM on May 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


If you are a civil servant and you can see things are going bad, you will make sure to leave a detailed paper trail everywhere you go. You'll send minutes from every meeting to someone relevant but not at the meeting, you'll mail stuff you normally would treat as banal to your boss or immediate subordinate, you'll get documents out where they can't be legally deleted.
Like we've already seen in this case: you'll be telling friends and colleagues with the same security clearance every time something weird happens, so you have witnesses.
Maybe you'll also lawyer up and leave all documents at your lawyer's but it's probably limited what you can send out from the FBI.

All of this won't get you your job back, but you can free yourself from culpability if you are diligent and alert.
posted by mumimor at 4:19 AM on May 14, 2017 [35 favorites]


Oh, and the time-delay aspect is that none of this will be seen if there is no investigation. I get the feeling that Comey wants a public hearing because he wants an investigation.
posted by mumimor at 4:20 AM on May 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Oh, and the time-delay aspect is that none of this will be seen if there is no investigation. I get the feeling that Comey wants a public hearing because he wants an investigation.

That and Comey wants EVERYTHING to be on the public record. No "behind closed doors" security briefings here.

Which sorta says to me that there's enough unclassified incriminating evidence that the secret briefings aren't needed.
posted by mikelieman at 4:44 AM on May 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


I actually think that Comey refuses to testify privately so that he can deflect any questions whose answers touch on sensitive or classified material. What I can't read is whether he wants that in order to protect ongoing investigations or to protect himself. Or both.
posted by Vigilant at 4:48 AM on May 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


There's an interesting piece in the Guardian today about Mercer, Cambridge Analytica, and Brexit: Follow the data: does a legal document link Brexit campaigns to US billionaire?
British electoral law is founded on the principle of a level playing field and controlling campaign spending is the key plank of that. The law states that different campaigns must not work together unless they declare their expenditure jointly. This controls spending limits so that no side can effectively “buy” an election.

But this signed legal document – a document that was never meant to be made public and was leaked by a concerned source – connects both Vote Leave and Leave.EU’s data firms directly to Robert Mercer, the American billionaire who bankrolled Donald Trump.[...]

The companies may have had different owners but they were legally bound together. And, the Observer has learned, they were working together on a daily basis at the time of the referendum – both companies were being paid by Mercer-funded organisations to work on Ted Cruz’s presidential campaign in America. What is more, several anonymous sources reveal the two companies, working on two separate British Leave campaigns, actually shared the same database at the time.
See also, this twitter thread from the author of the article, Carole Cadwalladr.
posted by melissasaurus at 5:05 AM on May 14, 2017 [38 favorites]


Politico: To Understand Ivanka, Don’t Read Her New Book. Read Her Old One.
If ‘Women Who Work’ is the polished, media-ready first daughter, then ‘The Trump Card’ is the rougher, realer deal.
Indeed, the Ivanka in The Trump Card seems not in the least humbled by her upbringing, but instead is defensive about it. The first line of the book reads, “In business, as in life, nothing is ever handed to you.” That’s in a chapter titled “Get Over It”—the “it” is the idea that Trump’s wealth and privilege bought her any real advantage. After comparing her position to runners staggered for a race—she’s the one on the outside track who looks like she’s ahead, but it’s a “perceived lead” and “in truth, the only advantage is psychological”—she spends much of the book gushing about how amazing her family is. “Gosh, I sound like my father, don’t I?” she writes. “But that’s what you get from this particular Daddy’s girl.” (Emphasis mine.)
posted by Room 641-A at 5:26 AM on May 14, 2017 [25 favorites]


Colin Campbell, News & Observer: At 3 a.m., NC Senate GOP strips education funding from Democrats’ districts

This is why I think there's no merit in the "let's all try to understand and work with republicans" trash. Their only principle at this point is to screw over non-republicans.
posted by winna at 5:39 AM on May 14, 2017 [56 favorites]


melissasaurus: The New Yorker recently profiled Mercer. It's worth a read.
posted by Paul Slade at 5:41 AM on May 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Thanks for the explanation re dead mans switch - I didn't want to assume and I knew MeFi would put me straight.
posted by harriet vane at 5:41 AM on May 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Russian money-laundering details remain in the dark as US settles fraud case
The case had initially been brought by US Attorney Preet Bharara, but he was fired by President Donald Trump in March.

Bharara congratulated the prosecutors on Twitter late Friday night: "Congrats to Joon & team in Russian money laundering case (underlying fraud uncovered by Sergei Magnitsky, died suspiciously in Moscow jail)."
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:43 AM on May 14, 2017 [8 favorites]






From Artw's link:

Quinn — a former safety director of a coal mine who voted for Hillary Clinton — said Thursday’s town hall of about 80 people was no different as attendees questioned Cramer about his vote to repeal the ACA, which passed the House 217 to 213 last week.

He said he never intended to get physical with his elected representative, but he lost his composure after a young mother in tears pleaded with the congressman to leave the ACA in place so that her baby with birth defects could survive without her family facing bankruptcy.

“She was crying so badly that she could barely talk,” Quinn said. “Cramer gave her some kind of wishy-washy answer.”

As the tension in the room heated up, Quinn decided he’d had enough and began to address the congressman as cameras rolled.

“I said, ‘You’re going to give 800 million in tax breaks to the rich and destroy Obamacare and this poor woman is going to do without,’ ” he said. “As the conversation evolved, somebody yelled, ‘I’ll pay higher taxes to help this woman!’ And I said I would, too.”

“I took all my money out and handed it to him and said, ‘Here — I’ll be taxed for health care!’ ” Quinn said.


Oh look! It's a coal miner with actual economic anxiety.
posted by medusa at 6:02 AM on May 14, 2017 [142 favorites]


Oh look! It's a coal miner with actual economic anxiety exhibited as empathy for others rather than cascading i got mine-ism!
posted by localhuman at 6:06 AM on May 14, 2017 [53 favorites]


Clinton voter though.

When Trump voting coal miners are trying to tear Republican reps apart with their bare hands at Town Halls then we will have truly turned a corner.
posted by Artw at 6:07 AM on May 14, 2017 [8 favorites]




I'm glad they're speaking up at town halls, but I'm also done hearing about coal miners as some kind of metric of financial health. The entire number of coal miners in the US (53k) could basically fill a stadium. Meanwhile, we lost 30k retail jobs just in March of 2017. We've lost 89k retail jobs since October 2016.

Let's be honest why they focus on coal jobs: it's a code for mostly white (95%), mostly male (95%). Meanwhile, retail jobs are 50% female. 12% of retail workers are black, 17% latino, 6% asian. Department stores have lost 18 times more workers than coal mining since 2001, but no one in the administration talks about it because it mostly hits a demographic in blue state cities that they don't care about, or even actively want to punish for not voting for him.
posted by bluecore at 6:27 AM on May 14, 2017 [118 favorites]


To hold a town hall or not? It’s a lose-lose situation for many Republicans right now
“I will not risk public safety to entertain individuals that have no desire to respectfully discuss important issues,” Rep. Kenny Marchant (R-Tex.) told a Dallas Morning News watchdog columnist this week about why he's not holding a town hall nor advertising his office location.
"Can't we have a respectful discussion of me gleefully fucking up your chances of getting decent healthcare without going broke?"

Seems a bit fucking mad from my perspective.
posted by Talez at 6:33 AM on May 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


IF the future of democracy depends on destroying this party from the ankles up - and let's face it, it does - then what is happening at town halls is a hopeful sign. It'll be more hopeful if it translates into midterm numbers large enough to overwhealm the anti-voting measures, of course.
posted by Artw at 6:41 AM on May 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


“I will not risk public safety to entertain individuals that have no desire to respectfully discuss important issues,” Rep. Kenny Marchant (R-Tex.) told a Dallas Morning News watchdog columnist this week about why he's not holding a town hall nor advertising his office location.

Remember when Sarah Palin released a map with crosshairs over Democrats who voted for healthcare, alongside tweeted encouragement of "Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD," shortly before one of the congresswomen on the map was shot in the head? There's probably something more eloquent so be said about the hypocrisy etc but I'm just going to go ahead and say fuck these people.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:41 AM on May 14, 2017 [111 favorites]


Mick Mulvaney: “That doesn’t mean we should take care of the person who sits at home, eats poorly and gets diabetes”

So... who are they playing to? With whom does this horseshit go over well?


White middle- and upper-class bigots -- the whole "lazy people with diabetes" thing is racist code.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:55 AM on May 14, 2017 [41 favorites]


Futher on Louise Mensch: her lawyer appears surprisingly/amusingly openly dubious about her Trump sealed indictment story.
@MarkSZaidEsq
I represent @LouiseMensch in #FOIA litigation. Hopefully there'll be proof of this soon to verify. No one else is reporting yet

@Dr_G_Enigma 11h11 hours ago
Sealed would indicate no FOIA access.. not at this time. Read what the actual info is available now

@MarkSZaidEsq 11h11 hours ago
Respectfully to my client, there is no info available to support this. We need more than just these anonymous source(s).

@LouiseMensch 11h11 hours ago
Respectfully to my lawyer, sources are always anonymous. Otherwise you just quote them. @TrueFactsStated and I have good ones.

@MarkSZaidEsq 11h11 hours ago
You'll be a superstar if true Louise, but if you're wrong you'll both have to really acknowledge that for any future credibility

@MarkSZaidEsq 11h11 hours ago
This is not an assertion you make lightly. Your source (s) better be dead right.
posted by jaduncan at 6:59 AM on May 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


What's that they say? Something like "he who represents Louise Mensch has a fool for a client?"
posted by tonycpsu at 7:07 AM on May 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


The entire number of coal miners in the US (53k) could basically fill a stadium. Meanwhile, we lost 30k retail jobs just in March of 2017. We've lost 89k retail jobs since October 2016.

I think people who are saying "but there are hardly any coal miners" and "but there are hardly any farmers" etc are missing the point.

Farming, factory work, mining, timber, etc used to be the major industries in rural areas. People who grew up in those areas expected that they would be able to get secure, well paying jobs in those industries like their parents, and raise their own kids in those communities.

They couldn't. So they've had to move to the cities/suburbs, leaving their parents behind in towns full of abandoned property and and empty schools.

Their 60-something parents are furious at what happened to their once thriving communities. They blame globalization (though they should blame automation, natural gas, etc.)

The young people take those retail jobs you mention but can barely pay their rents, because the influx of people desperate for jobs had driven up property prices in those cities. They wish they could move back home, but there are no coal jobs anymore, no factory jobs, no family farms that make a profit.

So yeah. There are hardly any jobs in coal mining. That's the point. Because there are so few jobs, the communities which were once sustained by those jobs are also disappearing.

The economy is creating jobs pretty well. But the geographical distribution of those jobs is a huge problem. There are no jobs in rural areas and no affordable housing in urban ones. No wonder we have such geographical political polarization.

Republicans court the voters who are upset about their dying towns. They offer scapegoats. And through churches which are pretty clearly "Republican" in spite of the Johnson ammendment, they offer services and community support. (Democrats lobby for a nationwide $15/hr minimum wage, which does not seem helpful in these places where the cost of living is dirt cheap, but there are no jobs.) And many Trump voters who live in the suburbs and do okay for themselves are still people who came from small towns. Who have family there they've left behind.

Anyway, "there are hardly any coal miners " misses the point that what people are upset about is the very fact that there are hardly any jobs in coal mining communities.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:10 AM on May 14, 2017 [73 favorites]


Oh Jesus Christ the quotes in this Pirro interview are real
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:15 AM on May 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


There are no jobs in rural areas and no affordable housing in urban ones.

Universal basic income and guaranteed price-controlled housing would solve both those problems. Just sayin'.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:18 AM on May 14, 2017 [18 favorites]


The economy is creating jobs pretty well.

shit jobs, sure
posted by entropicamericana at 7:19 AM on May 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


WaPo is publishing op/eds calling for impeachment. (note that Tribe has been vocally anti-trump since day one. this is not the same as an editorial calling for the same.)

Lawrence Tribe:Trump must be impeached. Here’s why.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:23 AM on May 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


The entire number of coal miners in the US (53k) could basically fill a stadium.

Coal miners are important to presidential candidates who want to win Pennsylvania by winning the rural vote. The state is important enough that appealing to coal miner country is a requirement for winning the presidency.

Democrats quite rightly point out that coal mining isn't actually that important. Over time this has morphed into "democrats don't care about coal miners!" So now, to be seen as a conservative you need to care about coal miners.

It's just another dog whistle to signal that you're a member of the the GOP's tribe. Not that the other things you guys are pointing out are wrong, they're definitely part of the equation but I think it's 85% just a tribal signifier for conservatives. The rest is nuance that I just don't think the GOP and especially GOP voters just don't do nuance.
posted by VTX at 7:25 AM on May 14, 2017 [17 favorites]


What's that they say? Something like "he who represents Louise Mensch has a fool for a client?"

"Lady, she's putting my kids through college." [fake]
posted by jaduncan at 7:26 AM on May 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


OnceUponATime: yes, this is a big part of it, though I also agree with Bluecore that the nostalgia for lost jobs really does encode a lot of racism and sexism. It's complicated, as the saying goes.

Small towns in the Great Plains area started depopulating over a decade ago. And small town depopulation isn't limited to the United States. Our electoral system just makes it more of an issue. And small towns often have issues beyond just no jobs: racism, sexism, discrimination against LGBT people and against women who want more than limited traditional roles, xenophobia against not just newcomers but people whose parents were newcomers, etc. Leaving the small town for the big city is nothing new, it has just accelerated mightily over the past 20 or so years.

The concentration of economic gains in cities has been called the Pokemon Go economy. To quote Bruce Springsteen: these jobs are going, boys, and they ain't coming back. Trump and Co. are selling economic snake oil, designed to appeal to nostalgia as well as baser sexist/racist instincts.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:27 AM on May 14, 2017 [25 favorites]


So yeah. There are hardly any jobs in coal mining. That's the point. Because there are so few jobs, the communities which were once sustained by those jobs are also disappearing.

No one gives a shit about the newspaper industry decimation over the last two and half decades and the hundreds of thousands of jobs lost.

They wish they could move back home, but there are no coal jobs anymore, no factory jobs, no family farms that make a profit.

Is there some evidence for this? I'm sure the parents/grandparents would love to have their kids back home, but my experience is that the younger generation can't wait to get the hell out of Dodge and isn't pining to go back, certainly not dying to for a coal or farming job. The cities win not just because of jobs, but because of all the other accessories of life.
posted by chris24 at 7:32 AM on May 14, 2017 [62 favorites]




Trump must be impeached. Here’s why.

Impeachment is too good for him.
posted by sour cream at 7:44 AM on May 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


> Republicans court the voters who are upset about their dying towns.

This is the point where this comment started to read less like an appeal to help people in need and more like an acknowledgement of the political opportunity for Democrats to make a show of helping certain people in need. To be clear, there's nothing wrong with that -- they should help people in need, and they should brag a bit about those accomplishments and ensure that voters know who's trying to help them -- but I do think that once this becomes an argument about political outcomes, it's very much central to the point -- not beside it -- that the number of people living in these communities is small. I'll keep reminding folks until I'm blue in the face that even with all of Hillary's negative perceptions in these states, Trump's neo-Nazi appeals to racial animus (the scapegoating that you allude to), and James Comey's unprecedented last-minute intervention into political gamesmanship that has been shown to have been crucial to the outcome, the margin in the Rust Belt states was a rounding error (save for PA, which I'll get to in a minute.)

Which is all to say that yes, we should help coal miners and those who live in coal mining communities, but we should also help retail workers and those who live in communities where that sector is dominant. And there's no reason that they must chase the former group at the expense of the latter. The problem comes when the media and the GOP have decided that a certain smaller group deserves sympathy, but a certain larger group does not. In that case, the problem becomes an opportunity, because Democrats can both help a larger number of people and get a better political outcome, because there are retail workers and factory workers in Cleveland, Madison, Lansing, and Erie.

> Coal miners are important to presidential candidates who want to win Pennsylvania by winning the rural vote. The state is important enough that appealing to coal miner country is a requirement for winning the presidency.

I live in PA. You know what wins PA? The suburban vote. Several articles have been posted debunking the idea that rural voters swung the election. I live in a suburban community in Western PA that had a 3:1 ratio of Trump signs to Hillary signs, and I can assure you that there are no coal miners living here. Even if Hillary had gotten all of the coal miners and people living in coal communities, she still wouldn't have won PA. The margin was too large, made up of people living comfortably who don't care about coal except as a social signal for anti-environmentalism.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:46 AM on May 14, 2017 [55 favorites]


Faint of Butt: "There are no jobs in rural areas and no affordable housing in urban ones.

Universal basic income and guaranteed price-controlled housing would solve both those problems. Just sayin'.
"

Housing costs aren't exactly an issue in these places. In the rural areas around here, you can buy a house for less than the price of a Honda Civic.
posted by octothorpe at 7:50 AM on May 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


The cities win not just because of jobs, but because of all the other accessories of life.

Fair enough, but I am pretty sure even the ones who don't miss the small town way of life miss the cheap rents and free childcare (from grandma and grandpa.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:59 AM on May 14, 2017 [4 favorites]




but that's the point made above - you can buy a house for 24,000 dollars but you can't find a job that would allow you to make the down payment
posted by murphy slaw at 8:01 AM on May 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


I live in PA. You know what wins PA? The suburban vote. Several articles have been posted debunking the idea that rural voters swung the election.

I understand that but it was perceived as important. Now the fact don't matter any more, it's just a way to signal your tribe.
posted by VTX at 8:02 AM on May 14, 2017


(cut to trump running around the west wing screaming that he's going to fire clapper RIGHT NOW as aides try to explain diplomatically why that's not possible)
posted by murphy slaw at 8:02 AM on May 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


Is there some evidence for this? I'm sure the parents/grandparents would love to have their kids back home, but my experience is that the younger generation can't wait to get the hell out of Dodge and isn't pining to go back, certainly not dying to for a coal or farming job. The cities win not just because of jobs, but because of all the other accessories of life.

This has been my experience as well, as a person who grew up in a Trump-voting rust belt town. I don't know a single person who is like "oh, I wish I could move back to the town I grew up in but there aren't any jobs." They're like "thank god I took out the student loan equivalent of a mortgage so I can support myself in a place that reflects my values rather than be stuck in a town that thinks I should be a second-class citizen." I moved to a city, not because I couldn't find a job in Trump Country, but because I could never have political, social, and economic equality in Trump Country. So many of my city-dwelling friends are low/no contact with their rural families because they're abusive and/or deny their kids' identities.

Are there really city-dwelling folks who are dying to move to West Virginia and just can't do it because there aren't any jobs? I mean, I've never met anyone in that situation, but it's possible I guess. Certainly doesn't seem as common as the reverse situation of a rural kid pining for the opportunities and freedoms available in the city.

I'm not saying we shouldn't support rural communities, we absolutely should. But unemployment isn't the reason their towns are dying. The fact that they want their towns to be by white men, for white men is why these towns are dying.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:03 AM on May 14, 2017 [75 favorites]


'What's that they say? Something like "he who represents Louise Mensch has a fool for a client?"'

Is there some corollary for a lawyer who opens a consultation with their client on twitter?
posted by klarck at 8:03 AM on May 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


Fair enough, but I am pretty sure even the ones who don't miss the small town way of life miss the cheap rents and free childcare (from grandma and grandpa.)

Again, this assumes that (a) grandma and grandpa are alive and have the capacity and time to watch one's children and that (b) grandma and grandpa aren't racist sexist homophobic bigots who think your marriage is an affront to god and that your spouse shouldn't be allowed to have legal rights over their own child. If someone voted for Donald Trump, they voted against LGBT rights, against womens rights, against environmentalism. Why would you want that person around your child?
posted by melissasaurus at 8:08 AM on May 14, 2017 [30 favorites]




Why would you want that person around your child?

Not to mention, does the child want to be around them at a certain point? I don't have kids, but my sister - who like me has stopped talking to and seeing my rabidly Trump-supporting mother - does have a teenaged son who expressed his uncomfortableness with her racism/misogyny/bigotry/rightwing "Christianity". It was a large part of why she decided to stop seeing her.
posted by chris24 at 8:17 AM on May 14, 2017 [18 favorites]


Some good news: Trump's approval among Republicans has significantly declined since February, most notably among those who strongly approve of him. The surveys indicated that he's dropped around 12 points in the past three months, going from about ~70% strongly approving to now under 60% strongly approving.

Nate Silver weighed in by suggesting that only 20-25% of the electorate strongly support Trump, suggesting his floor could be much lower than the supposed 40%.
posted by adrianhon at 8:23 AM on May 14, 2017 [23 favorites]


So who is up for buying a few hundred thousand twitter bots to keep tweeting how amazing Trump would be to push for single payer for all health insurance ("australias") and point to the current bill in the House?

I figure we either get Trump breaking against GOP policies, so they finally try to impeach him, or we get traction on bills that should be passed etc.
posted by mrzarquon at 8:29 AM on May 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


no affordable housing in urban ones.

This is not true in all urban areas. There are cities all over the interior of the country that still have affordable housing and jobs. Low cost of living cities are a thing, once you move away from the coasts.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:29 AM on May 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


Nate Silver weighed in by suggesting that only 20-25% of the electorate strongly support Trump, suggesting his floor could be much lower than the supposed 40%.

The 40% doesn't refer to approval ratings, that's the number of Republican voters that will vote for a Republican candidate no matter what because Republican Jesus told them Democrats kill babies. 40% of the general electorate will vote for Trump's reelection, no matter what he does. The same number of Republicans who were supposed to be persuadable because "Trump is terrible" and "Clinton's not Trump", but voted for him because of the Supreme Court, pretend he's a moral upstanding Christian role model, cover for his treasons, that's the 40% number. And that's still his reelection floor.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:31 AM on May 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


that's the 40% number. And that's still his reelection floor.

He won with Dukakis numbers (46%). He drops to low 40s or 40%, and he's at Mondale numbers. Assuming there's not a major third party candidate, it's very hard for him to win at those numbers. Which is why there's even more voter suppression coming and why the number #1 goal for Dems has to be fighting disenfranchisement, getting people registered and to the polls.
posted by chris24 at 8:39 AM on May 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


Are there really city-dwelling folks who are dying to move to West Virginia and just can't do it because there aren't any jobs?

Why wouldn't there be?

I mean, of course some young people leave small towns because they are gay and want to be in an at least less oppressive environment, or leave because they want to be someplace with more real opportunities for women, or where in some other way they don't feel like they have to pretend to be someone they aren't.

Other people -- obviously vastly more likely to be straight and cis and probably men -- like small town life just fine, and don't have to pretend to be someone they're not, and get to be exactly who they feel like on the inside, and know where they stand with the community, and get to shit on people they think deserve to be shat on. But they have to leave because there's not enough good work. So they move to a suburb in a metro area and don't particularly like seeing gay people. And don't particularly like seeing black people. And don't like hearing Spanish or Chinese languages. And don't like seeing serious crime on the local news instead of high-school football. And don't like that their kids keep bringing home all these weird friends from school.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:39 AM on May 14, 2017 [14 favorites]


I'm honestly beginning to need an annotated chart of all the players in this abominably-executed Greek drama. Too many Steves, too many last names beginning with "C." Too many Russians! I'm more a big picture gal at the best of times, and not great with detail, but I'd like to be able to keep all of these actors straight.
posted by thebrokedown at 8:41 AM on May 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


He won with Dukakis numbers (46%). He drops to low 40s or 40%, and he's at Mondale numbers. Assuming there's not a major third party candidate, it's very hard for him to win at those numbers. Which is why there's even more voter suppression coming and why the number #1 goal for Dems has to be fighting disenfranchisement, getting people registered and to the polls.

Sure, but wildly different distribution than Dukakis, as Democratic self-sorting has become a huge problem. That, plus 2-4% or more attributable to Democratic vote suppression, and throw in another Jill Stein run after 4 years of "NEOLIBERALSAMIRITE" and they're within the margin of fuckery again, and that's all they need.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:45 AM on May 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


I have a horrible feeling The Zuck will be going 3rd party.
posted by Artw at 8:47 AM on May 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


I'm honestly beginning to need an annotated chart of all the players in this abominably-executed Greek drama.

Here you go.

(Missing Rybolovlev, Leviev, and Tokhtakhounov though. Feel free to Google their names plus Trump's for supplemental info. Also missing Manafort's contract with Deripaska)
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:49 AM on May 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


...who expressed his uncomfortableness with her racism/misogyny/bigotry/rightwing "Christianity"

And now I see white supremacy splitting from more Jesus-centric Christianity and becoming it's own tax-free church. (Maybe it has already, but it harder to see in my blue, agnostic bubble.)
posted by puddledork at 8:51 AM on May 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Small towns near the border don't necessarily match these cultural stereotypes and I imagine there are also small towns in the interior of the country that don't either. In fact I would bet there is less self-selected segregation in small border towns than in large coastal cities.
posted by wobumingbai at 8:53 AM on May 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


Despite the controversy over Comey's firing, Mr. Trump said his week was "great," and he said "there's no good time to fire someone."

This has really been bugging me because it's like he thinks he's George Bailey and he's worried about firing the bank manager on Christmas Eve. You're obstructing justice, Mr. Trump. More like It's A Disastrous, Horrorshow Life amirite.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:53 AM on May 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


No one gives a shit about the newspaper industry decimation over the last two and half decades and the hundreds of thousands of jobs lost.

If anything, those losses have been cheered everywhere even here on the blue. Look how well that's worked out for the country.
posted by photoslob at 9:06 AM on May 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Can someone explain to me how big money laundering cases are 'settled' by a fine and contriteness? I keep finding cases where millions of dollars have been fraudulently moved through casinos for years, and despite there being a series of complaints and findings by the regulators and law enforcement people, nobody ever seems to go to jail and the trail just fuzzes out.

If I did something even a bit naughty with a fraction of that sort of cash, the best I could look forward to would be promotion to prison librarian after five years helping the other cons with their homework.
posted by Devonian at 9:14 AM on May 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


I have a horrible feeling The Zuck will be going 3rd party.

Whether or not it's Zuck, the zeitgeist is ripe for a 3rd party candidate -- I can see it in conversation among acquaintances who don't seem to pay close attention to politics and are invested in a position where they're above partisan fighting and politicized culture and the ugliness there is naturally the equal fault among both parties and of course the whole thing is just like a child's squabble where someone normal needs to come set things straight (I mean, look, Democrat children, the Republicans survived Obama and his liberal agenda, you'll survive Trump, don't give in to the media culture of fear).

And of course, there's not much in the way of ability to think through voting strategically in a plurality system (hell, that's too often absent among voters who are supposed to be the pro-science smartypants people).

This is one thing I'm scared of that don't know what to do about. Like, ID-to-vote laws represent a soft barrier, and will take work to get over, but it's something you can sign on to help organize and do something to address.

But you can't stop a third-party candidate from running. You can try to get your party to run a candidate that will appeal to that segment, but you might not know enough about that, and you've trying to communicate with people for whom major party association itself runs between baggage and a litmus test, and one of your few options at that point is education and hell if that doesn't seem to be about the most daunting task to pick up right now.

So I hope there's no coherent third party anywhere near the Democrat/center side of the aisle come the run up to 2020.
posted by wildblueyonder at 9:20 AM on May 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


If I did something even a bit naughty with a fraction of that sort of cash, the best I could look forward to would be promotion to prison librarian after five years helping the other cons with their homework.

You're not worth billions of dollars and willing to spend millions of that buying your own law firm made up of ex-Department of Justice attorneys.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:21 AM on May 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Well, it's like this...

The rule of law is dead, killed by Republicans, there will be know justice where rich criminals are concerned.

That's about it, really.
posted by Artw at 9:22 AM on May 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


So I hope there's no coherent third party anywhere near the Democrat/center side of the aisle come the run up to 2020

But they'll obviously win this time! Time to disrupt the status quo! Both parties are the saaaaaaame!!!

kang_and_kronos-sure_throw_your_vote_away.gif

<sob>

posted by aspersioncast at 9:32 AM on May 14, 2017 [26 favorites]


Sen. Warren had a report about financial regulators offering settlements instead of, you know, jail. [pdf] That's how regulatory capture works.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:32 AM on May 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


The WH has released a statement on North Korea saying, in part " the President cannot imagine that Russia is pleased."

[real...I think?]


But the Russian Defense Ministry said in a statement, "The given rocket launch posed no danger to the Russian Federation. The resources of the Russian early warning system about [the] rocket attack and the monitoring missile defense forces will maintain combat watch in scheduled mode."

While Ministry's statement on the surface looks like it's intended to reassure its domestic audience, it indirectly makes the White House look like fools (again).

That's better, of course, that the worst case scenario with Trump and Putin - that they could possibly teaming up as nuclear partners against shared targets.
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:32 AM on May 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


Whether or not it's Zuck, the zeitgeist is ripe for a 3rd party candidate

*headdesk*

All of this, all of these horrors we've seen, and how many people have still learned nothing?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:32 AM on May 14, 2017 [21 favorites]


Are there really city-dwelling folks who are dying to move to West Virginia and just can't do it because there aren't any jobs?


Of course there are. Sometimes, you get tired of the noise, the small apartments, and the crowds. Sometimes you want to find a place where you can hear coyotes at night or see the milky way from your backyard. City life isn't for everyone. And a desire to move to a smaller or more rural place isn't a slam dunk insinuation of wanting to be hateful, as was stated above. It's possible to find small towns which aren't some seething bastion of intolerance and hate.

If places, like the one where I live, are ever going to become blue, it's going to take people like me moving there. It'd be nice if those of us who move to rural areas aren't stereotyped as KKK refugees looking for sympathetic folks.
posted by honestcoyote at 9:33 AM on May 14, 2017 [98 favorites]


School turns away immigration agent looking for 4th grader: “Mayor’s been briefed on a fed immig agent showing up at Queens’ PS58 Thurs. asking about a 4th grader. School turned him away,” Mayor de Blasio’s press secretary Eric Phillips tweeted.

The federal agent didn’t have a warrant, Phillips added.

The Mayor’s Office for Immigrant Affairs said immigration agents are not welcome in New York’s public schools.

posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:37 AM on May 14, 2017 [73 favorites]


I honestly couldn't sleep last night after seeing that white supremacist rally in Charlottesville (mentioned upthread). The look on Richard Spencer's face is bone-chilling. These people are pure Evil. We're only 113 days in to this slow motion living nightmare. If Trump is not removed from power, where will we be in 200 days? 300 days? 1000 days?

It's going to get worse before it gets worse.

This has been guiseroom's daily panic.
posted by guiseroom at 9:38 AM on May 14, 2017 [27 favorites]


Lyle Denniston: Trump lawyers’ self-created legal dilemma. The DOJ travel ban lawyers have created a pickle for themselves. It turns out that if you run around the country arguing in court that anything that happened before inauguration day doesn't count and we should all just ignore the Muslim ban statement and other pre-Presidential statements, a judge isn't going to look too favorably on your attempts to claim executive privilege on documents from before inauguration day, such as any communication from Giuliani about writing the order.

Also, the NYT has a strong editorial: The Republican’s Guide to Presidential Behavior. It's IOKIYAR in editorial form.
posted by zachlipton at 9:38 AM on May 14, 2017 [37 favorites]


And a desire to move to a smaller or more rural place isn't a slam dunk insinuation of wanting to be hateful, as was stated above.

Yeah, that's a fair cop. Sorry; didn't mean to do that.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:39 AM on May 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


For what it's worth, several of my friends are looking for some combination of some of the values they grew up with (space for kids to play and child-raising norms that allow kids to be independent, a relatively egalitarian culture, schools that are not competition-obsessed rat-races) and some of the things they feel they didn't get in their small-town childhoods (exposure to and respect for all kinds of diversity, exposure to art and educational opportunities, not being made fun of for having unusual interests.) A lot of these people are trying to strike a balance by living in small towns or rural areas near a college town. My sense is that a lot of people have complicated feelings about their small-town roots and don't reject those roots entirely. And I think a lot of them would also not be enamored of certain things about the culture of big cities.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:44 AM on May 14, 2017 [36 favorites]


All of this, all of these horrors we've seen, and how many people have still learned nothing?

All of them?
posted by petebest at 9:44 AM on May 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Politico: Republicans plan massive cuts to programs for the poor
President Donald Trump’s refusal to overhaul Social Security and Medicare — and his pricey wish-list for infrastructure, a border wall and tax cuts — is sending House budget writers scouring for pennies in politically sensitive places: safety-net programs for the most vulnerable.

Under enormous internal pressure to quickly balance the budget, Republicans are considering slashing more than $400 billion in spending through a process to evade Democratic filibusters in the Senate, multiple sources told POLITICO.

The proposal, which would be part of the House Budget Committee's fiscal 2018 budget, won't specify which programs would get the ax; instead it will instruct committees to figure out what to cut to reach the savings. But among the programs most likely on the chopping block, the sources say, are food stamps, welfare, income assistance for the disabled and perhaps even veterans benefits.
Oh, and James Comey turned up at a production of Fun Home yesterday. I presume he found the Bechdel family to be far more caring and loving than the Trump family.

In better news: Chelsea Manning will be released this week and will, while her appeal is pending, remain on (unpaid) active duty with access to health care.
posted by zachlipton at 9:46 AM on May 14, 2017 [23 favorites]


Comey for Republican nominee 2020?
posted by Coventry at 9:51 AM on May 14, 2017


If there's any justice in the world there won't be a Republican party in 2020. Not with everything they've allowed to transpire.
posted by guiseroom at 9:58 AM on May 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


Quite a letter to the editor.
Why should I pay indeed?
From Barbara Rank, Hiddle Oaks Court, Dubuque.

Congressman Rod Blum in a Bubuque town hall (Monday) night asked, "Why should a 62-year-old man have to pay for maternity care?"

I ask, why should I pay for a bridge I don't cross, a sidewalk I don't walk on, a library book I don't read?

Why should I pay for a flower I won't smell, a park I don't visit, or art I can't appreciate? Why should I pay the salaries of politicians I didn't vote for, a tax cut that doesn't affect me, or a loophole I can't take advantage of?

It's called democracy, a civil society, the greater good. That's what we pay for.
posted by jaduncan at 9:59 AM on May 14, 2017 [184 favorites]


If there's any justice in the world there won't be a Republican party in 2020. Not with everything they've allowed to transpire.

Hah! If there were such justice, there would have been no Republican party in 1976, 1992 or 2008. They will repair their "brand" again.
posted by Coventry at 9:59 AM on May 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


will, while her appeal is pending, remain on (unpaid) active duty with access to health care.

Wait, I don't understand this. What is happening? Is this a new appeal?
posted by corb at 10:00 AM on May 14, 2017


Hah! If there were such justice, there would have been no Republican party in 1976, 1992 or 2008. They will repair their "brand" again

There will always be evil in the world. Hopeful we can dislodge it a little though.
posted by Artw at 10:06 AM on May 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Kellyanne Conway on Anderson Cooper’s Eye Roll: ‘Possibly Sexist, Definitely What I Call Trumpist’
“Possibly sexist, definitely what I call Trumpist,” she told host Howard Kurtz. “Which is many people who go on TV are treated like house guests, and then when we go on TV, we’re not.”

She went on to claim that everyone is now looking to create moments on TV that will go viral on social media and that it “really doesn’t help democracy.”
Thanks a lot for conjuring up Kelleyanne, SNL.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:13 AM on May 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


Okay, about the KKK-wannabe rally in Charlottesville, look closely...

They're carrying tiki torches.
posted by MrVisible at 10:19 AM on May 14, 2017 [16 favorites]




She went on to claim that everyone is now looking to create moments on TV that will go viral on social media...

Tip for her -- when she pisses on the truth, that's usually going to go viral.
posted by puddledork at 10:20 AM on May 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Callista Gingrich set to be named ambassador to the Vatican

As David Corn just pointed out: "That extramarital affair with Newt really paid off."
posted by zachlipton at 10:23 AM on May 14, 2017 [77 favorites]


"I think in many ways our institutions are under assault both externally -- and that's the big news here is the Russian interference in our election system -- and I think as well our institutions are under assault internally," Clapper said on CNN's "State of the Union."

Pressed by anchor Jake Tapper if he meant US institutions were under assault internally from the President, Clapper responded, "Exactly."


He also pushed back against Trump on Clapper with Tapper - I mean State of the Nation with Jake Tapper - about Trump saying he found no collusion.

@Phil_Mattingly
Former DNI James Clapper tells @jaketapper nothing he's said re: the Russia investigation/Pres. Trump should be considered "exculpatory."
posted by chris24 at 10:46 AM on May 14, 2017 [17 favorites]


1976

at least they had enough of a drop of shame back then that nixon wasn't still the president
posted by murphy slaw at 10:46 AM on May 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Hold on while I check with my attorney, Leo Pard, Esq.

Is it time for Trump staff to lawyer up?
Veterans of Washington's scandals say that with subpoenas coming from Congress and an FBI investigation still active, staffers would be wise to seek counsel.
At least some of the people who joined the Trump administration were aware of the legal risks. “I had folks who joined the administration ask that question, which should tell you something,” said Luskin, who previously represented President George W. Bush’s senior political adviser Karl Rove during the investigation into the leak of CIA agent Valerie Plame’s identity, as well as a pair of senior officials during the probe of Clinton’s Whitewater land deals.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:51 AM on May 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


Callista is an excellent name for Vatican intrigues. Does she have a suspiciously big silver ring with a very large cabochon ruby?
posted by Devonian at 10:52 AM on May 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


North Carolina Senate GOP targets children who live in Democratic districts
At 3:07 a.m. on Friday morning, North Carolina Senate GOP leaders rushed through a budget amendment that stripped education funding for teaching assistants and STEM programs in districts led by Democrats, cut funding to provide fresh produce to food deserts, reallocated money that was supposed to go to an arts museum and a downtown revitalization project, and eliminated a position that works to secure federal aid for disaster relief.

Remember, North Carolina Republican drawn districts were ruled unconstitutionally gerrymandered and ordered to hold a special election, which was then stayed by the Supreme Court.

Republicans are using an unconstitutionally stolen state legislature to punish children of Democrats.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:07 AM on May 14, 2017 [83 favorites]


UN Ambassador Defends Comey Firing: Trump Is ‘The CEO Of The Country’
“I think that the reason people are uncomfortable is because he acts,” she said. “He doesn’t talk with a bunch of people about it before, he just acts.”
So close and yet so far.
*sob*
posted by Room 641-A at 11:13 AM on May 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


If she loses the appeal, she would probably -- the reporting on this frames it as 'could be,' but I'm not familiar enough with the process or situation to locate where the uncertainty comes from -- be dishonorably discharged, and lose her health benefits.

Manning's sentence included a dishonorable discharge (for obvious reasons, this is administered after one's stay at Leavenworth). Military judges and commanders have greater leeway to set aside portions of sentences (which has both good and bad parts), so it is possible that the appeal of her conviction could be denied but her discharge be upgraded to a characterization that would allow her to keep her VA and medical benefits. I wouldn't bet on it, but it's within the realm of legal possibility.
posted by Etrigan at 11:19 AM on May 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


and eliminated a position that works to secure federal aid for disaster relief.

That's bizarre, especially given that the Federal Government just denied NC 99% of disaster aid for Hurricane Matthew. Why? Because it's not the role of the Federal Government to do that? Because Trump was pissed about how much "the digital" costs on aircraft carriers? So that the citizens of North Carolina do not become addicted to water?
posted by thelonius at 11:21 AM on May 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


They're carrying tiki torches.

Kultural appropriation?
posted by Behemoth at 11:26 AM on May 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Fareed Zakaria: Trump is dangerous to US democracy

40-odd days from truly becoming president to becoming dangerous to our democracy. What a pivot, eh Fareed?
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:27 AM on May 14, 2017 [47 favorites]


There's a bunch of talk again about WA's bg earthquake maybe being due... If that happens I *know* we are utterly on our own, not a chance in hell these fucks will lift a finger. Its a little sobering facing a possible natural disaster and an administration so willing to be a force multiplier for disasters.
posted by Artw at 11:35 AM on May 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


Fareed Zakaria: Trump is dangerous to US democracy

40-odd days from truly becoming president to becoming dangerous to our democracy. What a pivot, eh Fareed?


Just more evidence that we can't depend on any institution to save us. Not the press, not the Democratic Party, not NeverTrumpers, not "moderate" Republicans, not the courts, not the Deep State. They range from useless to powerless to harmful. The only thing that will stop this is continued and massive public resistance and protest.

And relatedly, this tweet about Louise Mensch seems feasible. By fooling people into thinking the deep state or some institution will save us, it discourages some from active participation in resistance and also helps destroy trust in institutions when false hope is crushed after they don't save us.

@UOJim
What if the Russians hired Louise Mensch to trick us into thinking American institutions might do their jobs?

---

And a related somewhat satirical piece. Operation Mensch
posted by chris24 at 11:37 AM on May 14, 2017 [13 favorites]




Everything is suspect, at this point. Isn't it true that one/some of the major news corps own both right leaning and left leaning shows? If we're in the end game as we seem to be, I imagine we need to be much more skeptical of all information, no matter the source. With the exception of Dan Rather. And I hope he has a security team. : /
posted by Glinn at 11:41 AM on May 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


man if putin turns out to have nothing to do with this he is the luckiest bastard alive, as far as undermining western institutions goes
posted by murphy slaw at 11:43 AM on May 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


(of course it would never have worked if said institutions weren't ready to fall over on their own)
posted by murphy slaw at 11:45 AM on May 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Of course Russia itself is in utterly shit shape. But that's possibly the way he likes things.
posted by Artw at 11:48 AM on May 14, 2017


i'm sure the view from his dacha is just fine
posted by murphy slaw at 11:52 AM on May 14, 2017 [5 favorites]




Mod note: Couple comments deleted, lets not dig in on Russian Sterotype Buffet, please.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:34 PM on May 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Callista Gingrich set to be named ambassador to the Vatican

As David Corn just pointed out: "That extramarital affair with Newt really paid off."


Look, this is just not cool. We do not know the state of Callista Gingrich's soul, and I am completely uninterested in casting the first stone over repented fornication.

Whether or not she should have accepted the position simply because it came from Trump is fair to speculate about, how good a job she will do, fine. But this other stuff is just not worthy of us.
posted by corb at 12:36 PM on May 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


We do not know the state of Callista Gingrich's soul

We do have evidence though. She's married to Newt Gingrich and is near accepting a position in the Trump administration.
posted by Justinian at 12:40 PM on May 14, 2017 [81 favorites]


Look, this is just not cool. We do not know the state of Callista Gingrich's soul, and I am completely uninterested in casting the first stone over repented fornication.

Her husband is still boosting a fascist who has bragged about sexual assault, campaigned for war crimes, and ran on racism from start to finish. Her husband is still boosting a man who is actively wrecking the republic and hurting people. Her husband is aiding and abetting treason.

And she's benefiting from it.

I'm okay if you don't want to throw rocks. I'll happily throw enough to make up someone else's share.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:41 PM on May 14, 2017 [53 favorites]


Nate Silver weighed in by suggesting that only 20-25% of the electorate strongly support Trump

So, the Crazification Factor?
posted by acb at 12:43 PM on May 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


Oh, also, I can't help but notice she kept silent about the hypocrisy of having an affair with a guy who was trying to bring down a president for having an affair. Sure, sure, the lying about it, too. Like Newt wasn't lying his ass off the whole time.

At some point, you have a responsibility to speak up against bullshit. If she's got it in her to be the ambassador to anywhere, she doesn't get any free passes on keeping quiet while that shit was going on.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:44 PM on May 14, 2017 [54 favorites]


"I'm 1,000 percent certain that the Russians interfered in our election," [Senator Graham] said.

"They did try to undercut Clinton. I don't think they changed the outcome," he said of the presidential vote that put President Trump in office. "Russia didn't change the outcome of the election but they sure as hell tried"


Wow, Lindsay must have some pretty amazing social science research to say definitively that Russia's actions didn't result in Trump
winning by a few thousand votes in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin thereby deciding the election! I wish he'd share it with us!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:47 PM on May 14, 2017 [38 favorites]


What if the Russians are planting (and have been planting) people to question the integrity of our institutions and opposition party so as to weaken them?

What if the liberal paranoia about the Deep State helped weaken our national institutions that should have stopped the Russians back in the fall?

What if the Russians have paid people to post on this very site?

What if I am secretly a Russian spy who is trying to make you wonder these things?

At some point, paranoia is self-serving and useless. The only thing we know for certain is that the Russians tried very hard to undermine confidence in the Democratic party. Which is why I support them.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 12:54 PM on May 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


What if I am secretly a Russian spy who is trying to make you wonder these things?
So now I'm sitting at home investigating myself!
posted by Waiting for Pierce Inverarity at 1:06 PM on May 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


There's a bunch of talk again about WA's bg earthquake maybe being due... If that happens I *know* we are utterly on our own, not a chance in hell these fucks will lift a finger. Its a little sobering facing a possible natural disaster and an administration so willing to be a force multiplier for disasters.

I was shocked that California got the money requested to help with the problems caused by all the rain.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:07 PM on May 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Hey, maybe Calista will have a literal epiphany about, well, everything. Anything.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:10 PM on May 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Are there really city-dwelling folks who are dying to move to West Virginia and just can't do it because there aren't any jobs? I mean, I've never met anyone in that situation, but it's possible I guess. Certainly doesn't seem as common as the reverse situation of a rural kid pining for the opportunities and freedoms available in the city.

Hi! My name's Wendy. Now we've met, and you can't say this nonsense anymore. Granted, I don't want to live in West Virginia specifically, but I am definitely trying to move out of the super-liberal Seattle area. In fact, I moved 40 miles north of Seattle not quite one year ago, after fifteen years of living on Capitol Hill, historical home of all the liberal weirdos. I moved out of the city partially because I could no longer comfortably afford it, but also because living up here puts me closer to some very beautiful parts of the state that honestly may not be here for much longer, because of the amount of development going on in this state to handle the housing needs of everyone who wants to live in the fucking city.

I would like to move out of this state, to either Alaska or rural New Mexico or northeast Ohio, where my very best friend lives. But I'm stuck here in the orbit of Seattle, whether I like it or not, because I promised to stay near my grandmother until she dies. Once she's gone, I can leave. I'm lucky enough to have a job that may very well be portable, since I already work remotely for a company based in another state, otherwise I wouldn't even be considering this very seriously.

I don't secretly want to become a Trump supporter. My desire to live somewhere that does not happen to be a shining liberal city on a hill does not correlate to a desire to march around with a bunch of other white assholes carrying a tiki torch and chanting about how much I loooove Russia. It just means I want to live somewhere where I could probably buy a house on my own (or just have a better quality of life), near people I love dearly, with some beautiful natural wilderness nearby for me to explore.
posted by palomar at 1:18 PM on May 14, 2017 [69 favorites]


At some point, paranoia is self-serving and useless.

spoken like a RUSSIAN SPY
posted by contraption at 1:23 PM on May 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


(Incidentally, I see a lot more people of color when I leave my home now, compared to in the city. A LOT more.)
posted by palomar at 1:27 PM on May 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


I would like to move out of this state, to either Alaska or rural New Mexico or northeast Ohio, where my very best friend lives. But I'm stuck here in the orbit of Seattle, whether I like it or not, because I promised to stay near my grandmother until she dies. Once she's gone, I can leave. I'm lucky enough to have a job that may very well be portable, since I already work remotely for a company based in another state, otherwise I wouldn't even be considering this very seriously.

But you say yourself that the reason you don't want to move is because of your family, not because of a lack of ancestral jobs. If you look at my comment in context, it is responding to the notion that:
"Farming, factory work, mining, timber, etc used to be the major industries in rural areas. People who grew up in those areas expected that they would be able to get secure, well paying jobs in those industries like their parents, and raise their own kids in those communities. They couldn't. So they've had to move to the cities/suburbs, leaving their parents behind in towns full of abandoned property and and empty schools."
This is not the situation you describe. There are plenty of people who want to live in rural areas and plenty of people in rural areas that are not Trump supporters; that's not what I mean. I specifically mean that this narrative of lost ancestral jobs that force kids to move to the city when they would otherwise prefer to be mining coal in WV like their daddy did does not reflect a statistically significant portion of city-dwellers (and therefore policies targeting rural areas should not focus on luring back these mythical people).
posted by melissasaurus at 1:33 PM on May 14, 2017 [5 favorites]


It seems to me that naming someone with such a high-profile rejection of the Catholic Church's very strict position on marriage and divorce is a pretty big "fuck you" from Trump to a Pope who has been outspoken about Trump's policies.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:39 PM on May 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


Look, this is just not cool. We do not know the state of Callista Gingrich's soul, and I am completely uninterested in casting the first stone over repented fornication.

I don't really care about her qualifications, moral or otherwise, since these things are often gifts to friends and supporters of the president. My thought is just how it shows how short Trump's list of friends is. He's reduces to appointing spouses of friends now.
posted by octothorpe at 1:43 PM on May 14, 2017 [19 favorites]


What with Huckabee Sanders on the podium and n-2 Trumps in the WH, given a nation of 300 million, it seems improbable that so many positions can only be filled by family and friends. Is that what's holding back all those unfilled nominations? Not enough people on the Christmas card list?
posted by Devonian at 1:48 PM on May 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Are there really city-dwelling folks who are dying to move to West Virginia and just can't do it because there aren't any jobs?

I know a couple of people who have left DC for West Virginia. Mostly it's people taking a serious career downgrade to improve their quality of life. Also rural America is varied, even West Virginia has a gay enclave.
posted by peeedro at 1:49 PM on May 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


I often browse landwatch.com and other sites, to fuel my dreams of someday being able to afford a patch of land where I could do the hippie thing of raising some of my own food and living in a tiny house. Plenty of areas like Michigan and Arkansas have cheap land... but I know that if I did move out there, I would not be able to find a job. It's a shame because there are many beautiful rural areas.
posted by The otter lady at 1:54 PM on May 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


The goal is to refashion the global economic order, drawing countries and companies more tightly into China’s orbit.

I know there were a lot of issues with the TPP, but I am pretty sure the reason Obama (and at one time Clinton) supported it was to prevent exactly this.


"I'm from the future. You should go to China." - Abe, Looper

China is the future, and the last best chance to save us all. Seriously.

The Chinese leadership is sober, focused on long-term stability and the economic well-being of their people. Science and reason are guiding them, and they have the authority to plan well ahead and direct their massive economy based on their plans.

The West has lost the mantle of leadership, politicians are looking no further than the short term profits of their powerful friends and the next election, if that.

Put your money on China.
posted by Meatbomb at 1:55 PM on May 14, 2017 [25 favorites]


This is a really good Margaret Sullivan column: ‘Dude fires people’: How the chaotic Trump news cycle confuses and misinforms the public. Things are happening too fast, people can't keep up and they tune out.
Comey’s name came up “but it was so, so removed from facts,” Arnade said. Most saw this latest chapter as Trump being Trump: “Dude fires people.”

Or as substitute teacher Mark Adair told me: “It’s become background noise” for many in Niagara County, N.Y. (another traditionally Democratic area that voted red last year), where he publishes a local football magazine. The uproar, he said, “doesn’t have one iota of an effect on me.”

That’s an utter disconnect from the inside-the-Beltway parsing of each development, and the Democratic outrage over Trump’s possible obstruction of justice — complete with references to Watergate and impeachment.

“I think many right-leaning folks, in particular, have decided the reporting and commentary from Washington has become shrill,” said Lucy Dalglish, dean of the Merrill College of Journalism at the University of Maryland.

Meanwhile, she said, those on the left “are alarmed and exhausted.” Add it up and you’ve got a citizenry that has thrown up its hands.
posted by zachlipton at 1:58 PM on May 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


The Chinese leadership is sober, focused on long-term stability and the economic well-being of their people.

And you know, the brutal repression of elementary freedoms, the free pollution and destruction of the environment, and the genocidal occupation of Tibet. So no. I will not put my money on China.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 1:59 PM on May 14, 2017 [53 favorites]


Mostly it's people taking a serious career downgrade to improve their quality of life.

Hi, this is me! I could take a job in any of our agency's regional offices pretty much at will and save approximately 1 quadrillion dollars a month on rent, in exchange for trading my possibly-upwardly mobile position at headquarters for a definitely, no doubt about it, completely dead end equivalent in the regions, with a 20% pay cut to boot. I'm from a college town in a fastly devolving, newly Republican controlled state, but we also have the only openly gay mayor in the South, and were one of only two counties in Kentucky to vote Clinton.

There's a lot of reasons people move to the city. Wishing to be a coal miner like grandpa isn't really one. And lot of us would move back, but, like all the other jobs are here...

And you know, the brutal repression of elementary freedoms, the free pollution and destruction of the environment, and the genocidal occupation of Tibet. So no. I will not put my money on China.

Well, Republicans are racing to catch up in the brutal repression and environmental destruction categories, and they're trying to institute a genocidal rollback of basic healthcare, not to mention their plans for a new deportation trail of tears. So. And really, I'd argue China is doing more on the environment than Republicans, at least they acknowledge such things as climate change exists, government action can help, which is more than our government stocked with literal climate deniers and coal rollers.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:06 PM on May 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Just because the US is shitty right now, does not absolve the Chinese government of their many MANY sins, and the fact that we expect China to save us is a slap in the face to the brutal repression of ethnic minorities in China. Is this one of those times where people are valuing "economic issues" over the lives of minorities again?
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 2:10 PM on May 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


It's an expression of the magnitude of pessimism about the US' future that we could even hypothetically expect China to be a better bet for world leadership even despite their terrible history. Our future could very easily be worse than their past unless Republicans can be driven from power in the very near term.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:13 PM on May 14, 2017 [11 favorites]


From the OP article of today's thread about the tuberculosis outbreak over the last few years in Marion, Alabama:
Approaching another street, Lee pointed to a redbrick house that had been the home of Spencer Hogue, one of the original three people targeted in 1984 by Jeff Sessions — then the U.S. attorney for southern Alabama — for voter fraud. Hogue had been a patient of Lee’s, and he was diagnosed with latent tuberculosis before he died from other health problems, in September. “He was a no-kidding civil rights warrior,” Lee said.
posted by XMLicious at 2:19 PM on May 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


They may be massively inflating the degree to which they care about climate change and are doing something about it. On the other hand, even if that's the case they still see that as a worthwhile and admirable thing.
posted by Artw at 2:20 PM on May 14, 2017


FWIW, I would totally consider moving back to Vermont if there were more jobs in my field there, because it's beautiful and the cost of living is a lot better. It has the distinction of being the one super-rural blue state, so it's maybe the one case where culture isn't really a confounder. But unfortunately there's exactly one major research university there, and nearly all the industry biotech jobs are in Boston, San Diego, and the SF Bay Area. (The idea of moving to somewhere so unpopulated as a single gay dude also kind of gives me hives.)

I know my case isn't particularly representative, but I do know a lot of other people who grew up in Vermont and eventually either left or are considering leaving as 20/30-somethings. It's not because they don't like Vermont -- people often actually seem to get really attached to Vermont after growing up there -- but rather because they found it really difficult to find steady work, or because the job opportunities were just a lot better elsewhere.
posted by en forme de poire at 2:21 PM on May 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


Moving to rural Ohio was a serious career downgrade I suppose, but damn I had a good time.

I'm also having a lot of fun in the Boston tech scene now, though.
posted by Coventry at 2:27 PM on May 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


And you know, the brutal repression of elementary freedoms, the free pollution and destruction of the environment, and the genocidal occupation of Tibet. So no. I will not put my money on China.

This is why I'm thinking that, longer term, India's the better bet. Sure, there's a whole crap-ton of stuff that needs to be addressed, but they're addressing their fossil fuel consumption problems, they actually believe in climate change, they're working on addressing their world-leading corruption problem (albeit frustratingly slowly at times), and rather than engage in voter-suppression shenanigans, they appear to actually want people to vote.

(Full disclosure: I'm an American-born person of Indian extraction, but my feeling this way has nothing to do with that fact.)
posted by CommonSense at 2:30 PM on May 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Lindsey Graham's comments are alternately head-scratching and nauseating. Is there subtext to any of this or is it just more mucho-sadness?

Graham: Trump 'calls me when I'm asleep'

"What have I learned about our president? He's curious, he asks questions, and he knows no fear. [...] He calls me when I'm asleep and he calls me after I go to bed. I wish he would rest more. I gave him my phone number. So far so good. [...] And he's under siege unlike any president I've ever seen in my entire life. They don't believe he won; I do. Now Obama was somewhat hard for us, but I thought we were somewhat respectful. Let me tell you that you have a commander in chief that's not going to let this country get walked over anymore."
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:35 PM on May 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


When were these ghoulish fucks ever respectful of anything?
posted by Artw at 2:37 PM on May 14, 2017 [39 favorites]


MetaFilter: historical home of all the liberal weirdos
posted by kirkaracha at 2:38 PM on May 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


Now Obama was somewhat hard for us, but I thought we were somewhat respectful.

ahahahahahahahaha

What happened to his Supreme Court pick you feckless fuck?
posted by Talez at 2:41 PM on May 14, 2017 [77 favorites]


These clueless scumbags really have no idea how they've acted before the election and how they've acted since... that or they're utterly delusional and hooked on self pity.
posted by Artw at 2:44 PM on May 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


I gave him my phone number. So far so good.

Lindsey Graham has a short memory.
posted by peeedro at 2:44 PM on May 14, 2017 [10 favorites]


I think Graham's remarks might be left-handed praise.
posted by Coventry at 2:45 PM on May 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


You know, when we talk about Republican respect for President Obama, I'd almost, almost be willing to accept the proposition that most of the Republican Party didn't didn't really buy into birtherism, but for their general failure to forcefully repudiate it and fight it. But that completely went out the window when they nominated and rallied around one of the biggest supporters of that nonsense and got him elected President. You can't make President Trump your standard-bearer and claim the moral high ground.
posted by zachlipton at 2:46 PM on May 14, 2017 [32 favorites]


Now Obama was somewhat hard for us, but I thought we were somewhat respectful
On the night of Barack Obama’s inauguration, a group of top GOP luminaries quietly gathered in a Washington steakhouse to lick their wounds and ultimately create the outline of a plan for how to deal with the incoming administration.
...
After three hours of strategizing, they decided they needed to fight Obama on everything. The new president had no idea what the Republicans were planning.
"What they said right from the get-go was, It doesn’t matter what the hell you do, we ain’t going to help you. We’re going to stand on the sidelines and bitch.”
posted by kirkaracha at 2:49 PM on May 14, 2017 [69 favorites]


This is why I'm thinking that, longer term, India's the better bet.

That's if you can manage to overlook the lethal ethnofascism (and antiscientific push) of Hindutva, the profoundly offensive gender politics expressed in everything from acid attacks to "Eve teasing," the endemic corruption, the elites' smug and self-regarding complacency in the face of word-historical poverty so long as they are allowed to preen and the very nature of the caste system, sure.

I mean, overcome those things and we can talk.
posted by adamgreenfield at 2:52 PM on May 14, 2017 [16 favorites]


If places, like the one where I live, are ever going to become blue, it's going to take people like me moving there. It'd be nice if those of us who move to rural areas aren't stereotyped as KKK refugees looking for sympathetic folks.

Yeah, from my place in the middle of the woods, of course some people want to move to rural areas. We were looking at a financial situation of either having to continue paying ridiculous rent for small one-bedroom apartments or trying to buy a house somewhere 50 miles from the center of town, sitting in 2 hours of traffic each way every day. Or for the cost of a shitty apartment, having our own land and a three bedroom home and never dealing with traffic again.

We found jobs and we moved. Has it been fantastic the entire time? No. Especially when I became disabled and my husband's company shut down. But do we have any desire to return to spending several hours a day on freeways to get home and listen to our neighbors' music? Not really, no.

We have circumstances that makes this a decent option for us. We're white, cis, and nominally straight. There's a university town nearby with a good economy and plenty of left-leaning people. People out here are organizing for political change. There's lots fighting the good fight.
posted by threeturtles at 2:57 PM on May 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


Imagine if America were treated with the same bombastic resort to generalisation, caricature, and selective headlining as poor China and India?
posted by stonepharisee at 2:58 PM on May 14, 2017 [28 favorites]


We actually need global commitments to sustainability and democracy

actually
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:01 PM on May 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


Imagine if America were treated with the same bombastic resort to generalisation, caricature, and selective headlining as poor China and India?

"That's if you can manage to overlook the lethal ethnofascism (and antiscientific push) of the Republican party, the profoundly offensive gender politics expressed in everything from Planned Parenthood Clinic attacks to "Campus rape culture," the endemic corruption, the elites' smug and self-regarding complacency in the face of generational racial linked poverty so long as they are allowed to preen and the very nature of the unacknowledged apartheid system, sure.

I mean, overcome those things and we can talk."
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:03 PM on May 14, 2017 [35 favorites]


America's role as "The Shining Light to the World" has always involved setting a pretty low bar. Of course, if we keep lowering that bar for America, it won't be long until China and India make it over it.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:04 PM on May 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


I mean, overcome those things and we can talk.

I'm pretty sure I said "longer term," implying that, as a (literal) land of contrasts, India is in a constant state of change. And I could nitpick about how it's questionable how much a force Hindutva is in Indian society as a whole; how — as horrible as the rape problem in India is — the almost-obsessive focus on India over all other countries of late is bizarre (to say the least); and how a failure to address poverty sure as hell isn't a problem unique to India.

I'm far from an expert, sure, but I've seen dramatic, once-unthinkable amounts of change happen in India since the first of my nearly 20 visits over the years, back in the early 1980s through today. And it's still ongoing.

On preview: Imagine if America were treated with the same bombastic resort to generalisation, caricature, and selective headlining as poor China and India?

Yeah, basically.

I really wasn't looking to create a big derail here. We disagree. Whatever, dude.
posted by CommonSense at 3:04 PM on May 14, 2017 [2 favorites]




Imagine if America were treated with the same bombastic resort to generalisation, caricature, and selective headlining as poor China and India?

I don't see how pointing out the systemic human rights abuses of the Chinese government is 'caricature'. Also, I think we *should* be harder on America. And considering two sovereign nations as "poor China and India" is kinda racist as hell.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 3:08 PM on May 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


In fact, I moved 40 miles north of Seattle not quite one year ago, after fifteen years of living on Capitol Hill, historical home of all the liberal weirdos.

I also left Seattle and live somewhere vaguely rural and hippy-ish. It's considered to be urban for the area, even though it's a town of barely 10,000 people. I see more deer, owls, bald eagles, otters and whatnot on a given day or week than most people see at a zoo.

The air is so clean and fresh out here it's utterly intoxicating. No, seriously, one of my favorite things to do now is take long, slow walks through the woods and get super high on all the ambient terpenes. It turns out that I personally didn't need antidepressant drugs to manage my depression, I just needed a lot more trees and a quiet, friendly place to live.

And I can barely stand to be in or near big cities any more. The appeal is gone. I like to visit my friends in Seattle, maybe visit the Frye or get some big city culture in, but I can only last about 3-4 days before I need to get the fuck out of the city, and I don't start really relaxing until I'm on the last local bus home and I'm deep in the trees.

When I first moved to Seattle it felt like a cute, small city compared to, say, LA or SF. Now it's just an overwhelming assault on my sensibilities and senses. I had no idea big cities smelled so bad, were so loud and so filled with visual blight and trash. If you teleported me from where I'm sitting right now to Downtown LA or somewhere along the Western Ave corridor I'd probably get physically sick from the environmental stress and the stench of traffic and smog.

And this is on top of all of the other stresses, the panhandlers, the fact that there's no place to go where you don't have to spend money to exist or simply use a bathroom.

Conversely where I live now I can head out without even a penny in my pocket and know that there are several coffee shops where they'd be glad to let me have some water, a dry place to sit or a bathroom to use. I haven't tested this, but I could probably ask for or earn a hot meal at a half dozen restaurants. I've certainly been able to show up at my favorite bar and people are happy to buy me a beer for the company and conversation - but I've also paid that forward by doing the buying or being there for people when they needed help with moving or other things.

And f I suddenly had a health issue and collapsed in public - people would actually likely know who I was, where I lived and whom to call. This is incredibly comforting.

Heck, I've lost valuable things on the local bus and every time it's gotten back to me. Umbrellas, insulated canteens, 100 dollar multitools, my wallet. Every time it's either been turned in to the bus driver and/or made its way to lost and found and recovered. This still just blows me away.

The price of admission to this is that most of the jobs here are retail, tourism or service industry. Then there's the paper mill, which pays pretty good but then you smell like old Tacoma.

Granted, I don't have anything resembling a career and I don't care about that, so it's not like I'm sacrificing anything.

I do care that I live in a small community where people look after each other, where there's a lot of music and art, and I can leave my door unlocked to the point that I don't even have a key to it. For someone who has normally been acutely hypervigilant for most of their life this says a great deal.

Point is is that I've learned that rural/small towns are definitely not the enemy of the future. If anything some small towns should be looked at as role models of sustainability and progressiveness. We're a lot more in touch with our surroundings and environment in ways that are just not even considered as viable in big cities.

Example: Our local foodbank has crews of gleaners that gather unwanted produce from farms and home gardens. Every single restaurant I've been into in town or in the kitchen has some form of a direct compost/waste/scraps recycling program where local farms and gardens do all the scrap/waste collecting themselves. This goes straight back into local compost piles and pig feeding troughs.

While we also have a municipal composting/greenwaste program, I would guess based on how little I see on the curbs that it probably receives less than 10% of the waste stream because people are just that active about all that green and black gold.

Anyway, my other main point is this: These kinds of small communities can be built, nurtured and fostered. But they take work, and they aren't off the rack solutions that most people find easy to accomplish. They take a lot of direct action and hands on work and compromise.

And people fleeing rural areas for the city cores and away from high unemployment is part of the problem that's creating political monocultures where they didn't necessarily exist before.

I think part of the solution is more remote STEM work and getting corporations to value and support remote workers more.

That and maybe getting people to learn to slow down on the typically American problem of working too hard, too often for too little and the negative, destructive feedback loop of excessive consumption.

Which is yet another benefit of living in a small town. No one cares if you only have some old Dickie's or Carhartt's for pants or you've been wearing the same hoodie all year, nor do they care what kind of car you drive, or what you own.

They care what kind of person you actually are.
posted by loquacious at 3:15 PM on May 14, 2017 [67 favorites]


> America's role as "The Shining Light to the World" has always involved setting a pretty low bar. Of course, if we keep lowering that bar for America, it won't be long until China and India make it over it.

Isn't that essentially what happened to the Roman Catholic Church's concept of Limbo? The bar was so low they effectively buried the concept.
posted by guiseroom at 3:19 PM on May 14, 2017


Let me tell you that you have a commander in chief that's not going to let this country get walked over anymore."

It is not mentioned which branch of the military Greg Nash, whose byline appears on this piece, is in. I assume he is in the military, because the other options are that (a) Graham believes the president is commander of all Americans, or (b) he hopes you believe that.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:23 PM on May 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


I have this gut feeling that the movement from rural areas to cities is reversing. When I was a kid in the 70's, everyone smart and forward was moving or already had moved to the suburbs beginning when my parents were kids in the 50's, or they were already living in small towns and villages. I knew at 9 years old that my family was headed for deroute when we moved to the city. Now as we all know, a two-room apartment in a trending city costs more than a small farm. But that also means that all the creatives are being priced out, as well as the start-ups, the small manufacturers, the contractors and the nurses, teachers and policemen. And they are moving back out, very slowly.
I think the turn back to the city started during the late 80's and it's being felt now. So the movement back out won't be a significant force before in 20-30 years' time. And there are unknowns such as climate change and infrastructure (specially digital infrastructure). But everything is flowing
posted by mumimor at 3:25 PM on May 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Mod note: urban/rural stuff is turning into a derail, as is the Vatican stuff, so let's move on.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 3:33 PM on May 14, 2017 [8 favorites]


So I get this alert on my phone from the LA Times: Meet the Malibu lawyer who is upending California's political system, one town at a time and I'm like nooooooooowhat'shappeningnow but he turns out to be a good guy!
For the past several years, Shenkman, 38, who lives and practices law in Malibu, has been suing, or threatening to sue, cities all over Southern California, demanding they change the way they elect members of their city councils in order to increase the numbers of African-American and Latino representatives.

[...]

Shenkman expected the Palmdale case to resolve quickly, but the city fought back. In 2013, the case went to trial. Palmdale lost. A judge ordered new, by-district elections.

In November, Palmdale elected its first Democratic Latino City Councilman, Juan Carillo, from a new district on the city’s east side, “one of our first success stories,” as Parker told me.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:42 PM on May 14, 2017 [29 favorites]


Ben Sasse on today's NationFace:
Peter Pan's Neverland is a hell. It's a dystopia.
See, that's why they're trying to ensure as many Americans as possible are ravaged by old age and disease so that 21st century America will be more like actual Victorian England rather than like a dystopia where people never age! If we can only get back to successfully executing children for property crimes, rather than being like Neverland where they always get away from the bad guys, and maybe a little bit of children being mangled in machinery in the course of child labor, Americans will be fully protected from the dystopian threats of longevity and not enough children dying.

Evidently he's written a book about kids these days! and so is trying to portray life for Millennials and Milleniolds as being like Neverland. Cursory Googling appears to indicate that some people have indeed put forward literary theses that Peter Pan's Neverland was a dystopia... but half the time they appear to be saying it was a dystopia for Captain Hook.
posted by XMLicious at 3:56 PM on May 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


From a reddit comment on the Charlottesville hate rally:

Another Cville resident - to add to the fucked-up-ed ness of all this...soemthing I haven't seen covered at all in the media is that during the day they were MARCHING AROUND THE ANNUAL "FESTIVAL OF CULTURES" taking place in the park. Seriously, WTF. "Oh, a celebration of cultures and diversity? Sounds like a good place for a neo-Nazi demonstration."

I was with folks at the festival when these racists were marching around with their drums and parade of confederate flags, and people were scared and nervous. Fuck those guys.


So these racists are not "just defending history".
posted by longdaysjourney at 3:57 PM on May 14, 2017 [46 favorites]


For the past several years, Shenkman, 38, who lives and practices law in Malibu, has been suing, or threatening to sue, cities all over Southern California, demanding they change the way they elect members of their city councils in order to increase the numbers of African-American and Latino representatives.

A similar lawsuit is pretty much the only reason that Pittsburgh has council districts and I know that a lot of other cities have had to be dragged kicking and screaming from the at-large voting scheme. Sadly here it was Democrats who fought against representational council districts. Unfortunately, we're at risk of going down to only having one majority-minority district out of nine in the city after 2020 because the city has been getting even whiter than it had been.
posted by octothorpe at 4:08 PM on May 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


The handful of serious accelerationists I know are very smart, very educated, and extraordinarily empathetic--but, for whatever zany, misguided reason, they place their empathy on future generations more than on people living now who will be harmed or dead by the disruption they wish for. It's a sort of bizarre hypothetical utilitarian trolley problem logic.

Just wanted to quote this again, because it clarified my uneasy feelings about accelerationism better than anything else.

Seeing as we are caught in a period of upheaval, though, I hope as many of us as possible make it through, and, if we end up with UBI, that's going to do a lot to heal the rural/urban divide issue. It's not really relevant to talk about where people *want* to live when people's employment dictates where they *can* live.
posted by emjaybee at 4:12 PM on May 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


The handful of serious accelerationists I know are very smart, very educated, and extraordinarily empathetic--but, for whatever zany, misguided reason, they place their empathy on future generations more than on people living now who will be harmed or dead by the disruption they wish for. It's a sort of bizarre hypothetical utilitarian trolley problem logic.

this impulse, taken even further, is the same thing that leads people to worry more about rogue AI and Roko's Basilisk than problems that actually exist like healthcare access, income inequality, and climate change
posted by murphy slaw at 4:34 PM on May 14, 2017 [30 favorites]


So these racists are not "just defending history".

and the history is actually indefensible.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 4:37 PM on May 14, 2017 [27 favorites]


I'm not sure what to make of this story w/r/t it not coming from a major media source, but it appears at least two things are clear: it was incredibly easy to launder money at the Trump Taj Mahal, and judging by his casinos, Trump was a horrible businessman.

Anyone who invested in Trump Entertainment Resorts in 1996 would have lost 93% of their investment in 10 years, whereas if you invested in the casino industry as a whole, you would have gained 250%.

As far as money laundering goes, you just a) buy chips with a wad of cash, b) cash out those chips, c) declare the money as gambling winnings. The downside is you might have to pay taxes on the amount you declared, but it's now officially clean money.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:01 PM on May 14, 2017 [12 favorites]


Some trenchant both-sidesey analysis from NPR's Mara Liasson

And I think there's a lot of magical thinking on both ends of the political spectrum. You know, his supporters think he's rewritten the rules. And they'll tell me, well, it doesn't matter what he does. It doesn't matter what his approval ratings are. Remember during the campaign, he said he could stand on Fifth Avenue and shoot someone and not lose any voters. On the left, I think they are in the grip - many people - critics of him are in the grip of this delusion that he's going to be impeached or that we're in a full-fledged constitutional crisis.

A few seconds later...

Legally, President Trump has the right to fire the FBI director for any reason or no reason at all. Whether this amounts to obstruction of justice is not clear.

So in summary, it's unclear whether the President committed a felony in order to undermine a criminal investigation into his campaign's relationship with a foreign power and their apparently successful attempt to subvert the democratic process resulting in a Presidential election he narrowly won, but thinking of that as a constitutional crisis is a "delusion".
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:11 PM on May 14, 2017 [30 favorites]


India vs China:

Having spent several months in each, I'd say 3 things should not be overlooked:

1) India is diverse. They make movies in half a dozen different languages, and the currency has something like a dozen alphabets on it just so everyone can read it. China is a mono-culture, 98% Han Chinese and actively working to dilute the remaining 2% into meaninglessness. Imagine if the US was 98% Swedish.

2) English is the lingua franca in India. That's why our call centers go there and not to China.

3) China has a totalitarian government. It's not communist any more in any real
sense, but don't kid yourself that the government won't jail, torture or kill people as needed to maintain power. And they have reached new heights in authoritarian control of information.

In short, I do not welcome new Chinese overlords.
posted by msalt at 5:11 PM on May 14, 2017 [28 favorites]


The handful of serious accelerationists I know are very smart, very educated, and extraordinarily empathetic--but, for whatever zany, misguided reason, they place their empathy on future generations more than on people living now who will be harmed or dead by the disruption they wish for. It's a sort of bizarre hypothetical utilitarian trolley problem logic.
this impulse, taken even further, is the same thing that leads people to worry more about rogue AI and Roko's Basilisk than problems that actually exist like healthcare access, income inequality, and climate change


The inverse of this, though, can also lead to radicalism and revolution, since while incremental progress is good (and arguably the only way forward), it's also the case that millions of people are unnecessarily dying every day, and an uncertain belief that we are slowly inching our way towards a happy society where health care, food, and income are basic human rights, doesn't change the immediate fact of those millions unnecessarily dying right now.
posted by chortly at 5:18 PM on May 14, 2017 [1 favorite]








Having spent several years in China, I found reports of its totalitarianism and monoculture to be overly simplistic and greatly exaggerated. Additionally the government there must really suck at diluting minorities when their percentage of total population has continuously increased since the introduction of the one child policy with its exclusion for minorities.
posted by wobumingbai at 6:02 PM on May 14, 2017 [9 favorites]


Having spent several years in China...

This would be more convincing if your nick wasn't "I don't know"
posted by Buntix at 6:09 PM on May 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


"China may have problems but at least they had a one-child policy imposed on only the majority of the population"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:12 PM on May 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


NPR am become facepalm, the flattener of noses
posted by petebest at 6:13 PM on May 14, 2017 [24 favorites]


I too have lived in China, and I found most US narrative about China to be totally inadequate at best. The real things I took away from my years there was that I really didn't know Chinese culture(s) and that the US lens was not a very good one for understanding Chinese political situations.

But that aside - in re China, Russia and all "enemy" states, much of what we're getting about them is propagandistic garbage. I'm not saying "Putin is actually a swell fellow and China is full of democracy", I'm saying that whatever is actually wrong in those places, we're not getting a full, complex portrait of them, how people actually live, what people actually want, what's actually wrong We've got to be smart about this - remember the Cold War. You didn't have to like or admire the government of the USSR to realize that we were getting told a lot of lies about it. (Just as they were getting a lot of lies about us, of course.)

(Something you have to hand to the Chinese government - communism didn't collapse into oligarchy and foreign corruption like it did in Russia. I'm not saying there's no oligarchy and no foreign corruption, but when I think about if I'd been in charge after Mao's death, trying to keep the country running at a reasonable standard of living and preventing the whole complicated apparatus from simply collapsing, I get the cold shudders.)
posted by Frowner at 6:21 PM on May 14, 2017 [24 favorites]


The one child policy also excluded rural citizens. So not a majority for most of its history.
posted by wobumingbai at 6:22 PM on May 14, 2017


The Chinese leadership is sober, focused on long-term stability and the economic well-being of their people.

The only thing that China does well compared to developed democracies is high level of economic growth. Anything else you might look at, it doesn't do well compared even to troubled democracies like the US or very young democracies like Asian "tigers" and eastern Europe democracies.

To be fair, China has come a long way since Cultural Revolution years, in almost any sense. So that's very commendable, to be sure.

And yet, it seems bizarre to idolize Chinese system as it is right now.

Another weakness of China compared to the US and many other Western countries is that their post-70s system has not been tested by severe shocks. Consider that the US system of checks and balances, of executive, legislative and judicial system had survived intact through the civil war, great depression, president assasinations, cold war, nixon impeachment, transition from agrarian to industrial to high tech / service economy, globalization, tea party, trusts and trust busting, new deal.

Chinese political system might be too rigid and fragile to withstand similar shocks. I hope it lasts and mutates into a democracy, for the sake of all of us, but so far we can't be sure that its stability is anything more than seeming rigid stability of the late Soviet Union.
posted by rainy at 6:33 PM on May 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


the government there must really suck at diluting minorities when their percentage of total population has continuously increased since the introduction of the one child policy with its exclusion for minorities.

From what percentage to what percentage? A "continuous increase" from 2% to 4% is not significant, especially when the government is e.g. doing everything it can to push Han migration into Tibet so they can squelch Tibetan autonomy with a highly pressured election to justify their control.
posted by msalt at 6:34 PM on May 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


Consider that the US system of checks and balances, of executive, legislative and judicial system had survived intact . . .

The past tense was intentional I take it. No, no. I agree it's . . it's not looking great atm.
posted by petebest at 6:38 PM on May 14, 2017 [3 favorites]


You wouldn't find a 100% increase in a generation significant?! I would be happy to continue this in memail but I think we are derailing pretty hard here.
posted by wobumingbai at 6:40 PM on May 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Mod note: Guys, there's a lot of chatter just to chatter in here. Please try to rein it in and restrict yourselves to news and serious commentary, not just retweeting funny tweets and making jokes and running at the mouth. It gets agonizing to read. You can always go to the chat room to shoot the shit and I will even pop in there myself and be entertaining.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 6:49 PM on May 14, 2017 [20 favorites]


You wouldn't find a 100% increase in a generation significant?!

The question was whether China is a monoculture, compared to the U.S. and India, so no I don't consider a drop from 98% Han to 96% Han in 30 years particularly significant. Especially when combined with a active government effort to dilute and neuter minority cultures, such as imposing a state puppet Panchen Lama, purging monasteries, etc.
posted by msalt at 6:53 PM on May 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


One last vaguely urban/rural-related thing that ties into broader political threads (delete if too far off topic) -- I'd like to relink this article from the Atlantic that made a pretty persuasive case that a big modern problem in the USA is geographic inequality and that it has been caused primarily by repeal and dilution of anti-trust legislation, not necessarily by anything intrinsic about e.g. the new tech-heavy economy.

The author also makes the interesting point that changes in the IP legal environment meant that software engineering became more about lawyering and deal-making, which benefited large companies with big legal teams. These additional disadvantages made small companies more likely to seek acquisition as an end-game, as opposed to competing with the giants. The author argues that this also worsened the geographic clustering of tech jobs, because to enter that world you needed access not only to tech workers but also specialized legal and financial services. I'm not 100% sure I buy this as a complete explanation (clustering also benefits employees, for instance), but it was an interesting take.

I also think there's something here that's not just urban/rural. Rural areas don't exist in a vacuum; they have a kind of symbiosis with the rest of the state, and they are bolstered by having prosperous denser areas nearby (both directly by tax dollars and indirectly by access to jobs and consumers of things produced in rural areas).

Basically I think the tldr is, if you want more geographic equality, fight for stronger anti-trust legislation.
posted by en forme de poire at 7:02 PM on May 14, 2017 [13 favorites]


Under Trump, inconvenient data is being sidelined
Across the vast breadth of the government, agencies have traditionally provided the public with massive data sets, which can be of great value to companies, researchers and advocacy groups, among others. Three months ago, there were 195,245 public data sets available on www.data.gov, according to Nathan Cortez, the associate dean of research at Southern Methodist University’s Dedman School of Law, who studies the handling of public data. This week it stood at just under 156,000.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:08 PM on May 14, 2017 [17 favorites]


Now they've done it: Chris Wallace is cranky and starting to say rational things on fox news.

Chris Wallace: WH Rejected Invites To Discuss Comey Firing

"We want to begin by telling you who you’re not going to hear from, today - the White House. Since the president fired James Comey on Tuesday, we’ve been asking for a guest to explain the president’s reasoning and discuss the fallout. Saturday morning, White House officials said they would not put anyone out to discuss that. But they did offer senior officials the discuss the president’s foreign trip, this week. When we said we were going to focus on Comey for at least the half hour of this program, they put those officials on other shows."

"I do take exception to the idea that this is hysteria [...] This is a big story. The fact that we're talking about it a week later. This is the first time in history that a president has fired an FBI director who was conducting an investigation that was directly investigating him and his associates [...] It’s a big story and I think it’s a legitimate story to cover.”
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:43 PM on May 14, 2017 [56 favorites]


A complete rundown of Boston's neo-Nazis-vs-antifa thing on Saturday; author was most unimpressed with both sides.
posted by adamg at 7:56 PM on May 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


Some people eat two scoops of ice cream, others get ice cream named after them:

Joe Biden Is Getting His Very Own Flavor of Ice Cream
posted by Room 641-A at 8:03 PM on May 14, 2017 [13 favorites]






so far most of these neofascist/antifa clashes feel like dorks cosplaying at street-level politics. the berkely thing seems to be the exception because the black bloc had an existing presence and willingess to throw punches in response to over the top provocation.

i mean, the white supremacists tried to intimidate people by marching with citronella tiki torches. i'm not waiting eagerly for the fascist gangs to get their shit together but right now they're a bunch of twitter-addled softboys bumbling around in herds for safety.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:23 PM on May 14, 2017 [17 favorites]


Primaries are on Tuesday and the city is awash in yard signs. All the Trumpers in the neighborhood (of which there were not a lot, but any number is too many) now have Democratic candidate signs in their yards. This shit makes me even angrier than their dumb Trump signs did in the first place. (To be clear, this is not an indication of Trumpgrets, it's an indication that the bland whitey mcwhiterson local establishment Dems in this city are a-okay with the same people who voted a Nazi for president.) I want every last one of them tarred and feathered.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:25 PM on May 14, 2017 [15 favorites]


Under Trump, inconvenient data is being sidelined. A well-reported story on how much public data has been disappeared.

The Guardian is also running a story about what's starting to happen on the front pages.
(Tl;dr: roughly the same thing, unsurprisingly).
posted by jaduncan at 8:40 PM on May 14, 2017 [6 favorites]


I mean, overcome those things and we can talk.

I think the time for the U.S. to be giving advice and judging has passed. Seriously.
posted by bongo_x at 9:17 PM on May 14, 2017 [16 favorites]


No, no, you see, my political allies are harmless while yours are basically monsters in acceptable clothing. The sooner you understand that the sooner I can stop criticizing you for your intransigence.
posted by aramaic at 10:18 PM on May 14, 2017 [7 favorites]


Axios: GOP Nervous About Democratic Recruitment
I’m beginning to hear senior Republicans fret about Democrats recruiting unusually high quality House candidates for the 2018 midterms. They worry that with Trump in turmoil, accomplished progressives view next year as a their best chance in ages to win a congressional seat.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:53 PM on May 14, 2017 [27 favorites]


I’m beginning to hear senior Republicans fret about Democrats recruiting unusually high quality House candidates for the 2018 midterms. They worry that with Trump in turmoil, accomplished progressives view next year as a their best chance in ages to win a congressional seat.

Wonder how many of them have also figured out that it isn't helping their chances that they're enthusiastically fucking over their constituents with a smile when it comes to health care and other things.

If we can also recruit unusually high quality state legislature candidates as well as national house and get the districts redrawn come 2020, maybe we can return the favor.
posted by wildblueyonder at 11:53 PM on May 14, 2017 [4 favorites]


Mod note: A couple deleted. Sorry, but this is getting massively derailed into a China thread.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:52 AM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


You know, if you are paying attention to politics around the world, it's pretty hard not to notice that fascism is on the rise in general. Instead of trying to figure out which country is most or least fascist in its pursuit of world domination, we'd be better off trying to figure out how to turn that trend. I'd like there to be other options than dismay about and resistance to a new fascist regime (of which India and the US are good examples) or gasping huge gasps of relief that a fascist only gained a larger share of the vote (France).
posted by bardophile at 1:09 AM on May 15, 2017 [33 favorites]


T.D. Strange and bongo_x, I endorse your points completely, in case it wasn't clear. I believe we need to be as rigorous and tough when considering all national cultures, very much including that of the United States. I have this funny dislike for state authoritarianism, kleptocracy and fascism wherever they are found, curiously enough.

The putative American Century was bad enough. I am firmly of the conviction that none of us need either a Chinese or an Indian Century.
posted by adamgreenfield at 1:36 AM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


we'd be better off trying to figure out how to turn that trend

Do you think -- and I ask this entirely seriously -- do you think we can turn that trend?

Here's why I ask. I used to believe the universe bends toward justice but more and more I think that a) there is no reason for this to be so and b) there is no evidence that this is so. If the universe ever bends toward justice, it does so only in isolated local instances, for brief periods of time, and only through the sheer determination of a large number of active participants. It's dangerously naive to assume otherwise.

Macron is no great victory for France. Le Pen will be back, having learned from this election, and every thing Macron doesn't do absolutely perfectly right (and that will be a lot of things) will be one more talking point for Le Pen next time around. Elsewhere, Europe is fraying around the edges. Britain is going to get much worse before it gets better. The flood of refugees will grow, as will the surge of xenophobia and nationalism in response.

And in America, for every idiot on the national stage right now, I promise you there are two more right-wing ideologues-in-waiting who are watching and learning, and when their turn comes around, they'll be slightly smarter and better equipped to push their agenda. They'll exploit every weakness we show them, and we're showing them a lot of weakness. They'll play to all of the same racist sexist xenophobic reactionary voters who put Trump in office, but they'll do it just a little bit more subtly. And if by some miracle we defeat that crew as well, there'll be yet another generation behind them, incrementally smarter and harder to defeat. If there was a final boss, we could hope for a hail-mary once-and-for-all victory, but I think it's just wave after wave of increasingly difficult enemies and there is no win condition.

Don't get me wrong, I'm going to continue to fight as hard as I can, I hope all of us will. I just worry that what we're seeing now throughout the western world is the geopolitical equivalent of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. The tools and institutions we've expected to save us are not saving us. The best leaders we can muster are unable to come to an effective consensus and are continually losing ground. We're throwing the same antibiotics at the growing infection -- appeals to better nature, to love and acceptance, to justice and human dignity -- and those antibiotics are visibly less and less effective every day.

I don't mean to be unnecessarily pessimistic, and I'm not encouraging accelerationism. It's just... I really don't see where we can go from here. If anyone does see a path to victory that I'm missing, please, I'd love it if you'd help me see it too.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 1:56 AM on May 15, 2017 [42 favorites]




The New York Times decides that it's a good time for a puff piece on Putin.
posted by octothorpe at 3:42 AM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]




Do you think -- and I ask this entirely seriously -- do you think we can turn that trend?

Here's why I ask. I used to believe the universe bends toward justice but more and more I think that a) there is no reason for this to be so and b) there is no evidence that this is so.


At Jeff Sessions confirmation hearing, Cory Booker said what Martin Luther King Jr only implied, "The arc of the universe does not just naturally curve toward justice -- we must bend it."

Martin Luther King died... but he changed things. The Nazis killed millions of people horrifically, but in the end they lost. It took generations of fighting for women to get the vote... Before that a lot of people died ending slavery in America, but it ended.

Though people have sought to undo the Enlightenment for 300 years no one has succeeded yet. The Renaissance was 500 years ago and that hasn't been rolled back.

It's a history of two steps forward and one step back... a history where those forward steps have come at tremendous cost. We're climbing a mountain. And we have lost such good people along the way.

I keep thinking about that quote about how "the price of liberty is eternal vigiliance." That's right, I think. Humans have these terrible tribalistic instincts which reassert themselves whenever we are scared, and the world is changing so fast right now, of course a lot of people are scared. But we have the power of reason too. And we are capable of kindness, and courage. We have to hold firmly to those anchors when people try to drag us down with them into the pits of fear.

I am feeling exhausted from trying to keep up eternal vigilance in the age of Trump. I want so badly to stop trying. But then I also think about "all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing " Those backward steps happen because we relax that vigilance at times. We get tired, we make excuses. We tell ourselves there is nothing we can do.

But how can we justify abandoning hope when our ancestors did not? In much more terrible circumstances than this, they kept trying... And though many of them died not knowing whether they had helped or not, their sacrifices were not in vain.

I'm thinking, forgive me for my nerdiness, of the end of "Rogue One" and of "The Hunger Games," and of the characters who died and never got to find out how the story turns out. That could be us. This may be a generations long struggle. We may never even know if the "good guys" win.

But that is no excuse to stop struggling. Because historically when we stop struggling, that's when we lose.

When we hold on to hope, though, we can indeed bend the arc of history... And we have a responsibility to the generations who came before us and the generations who will come after us to do that. This is our moment.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:31 AM on May 15, 2017 [112 favorites]


Actual NYT article on Putin is here.
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:35 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


I am detecting an upsurge in cynical pessimism and doom-saying and ironic shrugging at proposed actions among my lefty academic friends and here on metafilter, with fellow white males of a certain age (with tenure) making particularly world-weary "that won't work we are dooooomed" remarks. It's all over this thread too.

A reminder that the less privileged have lived with this level of fear, oppression, and lack of options to resist for a long damn time. Many middle class white folks are just waking up to a struggle as old as colonialism at least. As I said in an earlier thread, my Native American activist friends have a somewhat bemused attitude to privileged folks saying "but this president is really bad." Really? Yeah, he's bad, but from the point of view of Indian Country, what else is new? Pessimism and doomsaying are luxuries of privilege. Get back to the damn barricades when you finish wailing or ironically shrugging your shoulders at the end of the world.
posted by spitbull at 4:47 AM on May 15, 2017 [111 favorites]


And to be clear that reminder -- la Luta Continua -- is for my privileged self as much as my despairing friends.
posted by spitbull at 4:50 AM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Too-Ticky: "Actual NYT article on Putin is here."

I trying to avoid giving them the clicks and rewarding this shit.
posted by octothorpe at 4:52 AM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


I have been wondering whether or not, in a few generations, they'll be discussing the Liberal age in the same way people discuss the Cathars today. Whether the movement with its roots in the enlightenment, which broadly flourished between World War 2 and the early 21st century, will have been wiped out, to the extent that all sorts of myths will flourish. “The Liberals built a model society. They solved racism and sexism. In the Liberal utopia, there were no men or women anymore, only persons. But then they turned inward, dissolving into incomprehensible ideologies of “intersectionality” and “postmodernism”, and died out. By the time the Liberals were wiped out in the Regrettable Necessity, the culture was a toxic, twisted parody of itself.”
posted by acb at 4:53 AM on May 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


I trying to avoid giving them the clicks and rewarding this shit.

Fair enough, but I can't read the article on Twitter, so if I want to know what to be outraged about, I'm going to click through and look at the article. If you want to give people a way to avoid that, you could post a quote from the article so they get the gist.
I've always considered postings links to links a simple case of folks being lazy, and I would never have guessed someone was doing this with a clear goal in mind, so thanks for making that clearer.
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:00 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


We already have the polished Nazis.

They're people like Jeff Sessions.

Richard Spencer's mistake was outing himself as a Nazi, but make no mistake smarter people than him have figured the formula out. (he nearly has a PhD, but he's never be able to walk on a street alone again)
posted by Yowser at 5:09 AM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Politico: How Trump Gets His Fake News
... When Trump bellows about this or that story, his aides often scramble in a game of cat-and-mouse to figure out who alerted the president to the piece in the first place given that he rarely browses the Internet on his own. Some in the White House describe getting angry calls from the president and then hustling over to Trump’s personal secretary, Madeleine Westerhout, to ferret who exactly had just paid a visit to the Oval Office and possibly set Trump off.

Priebus and White House staff secretary Rob Porter have tried to implement a system to manage and document the paperwork Trump receives. While some see the new structure as a power play by a weakened chief of staff – “He’d like to get a phone log too,” cracked one senior White House adviser—others are more concerned about the unfettered ability of Trump’s family-member advisers, Jared Kushne and Ivanka Trump, to ply the president with whatever paperwork they want in the residence sight unseen.

“They have this system in place to get things on his desk now,” the same White House official said. “I’m not sure anyone follows it.”
posted by valetta at 5:16 AM on May 15, 2017 [25 favorites]


From that article:
Trump quickly got lathered up about the media’s hypocrisy. But there was a problem. The 1970s cover was fake, part of an Internet hoax that’s circulated for years. Staff chased down the truth and intervened before Trump tweeted or talked publicly about it.
So without the tireless work of his aids to steer him away from the stupidest shit, he would be even worse?
posted by octothorpe at 5:24 AM on May 15, 2017 [31 favorites]




incomprehensible ideologies of “intersectionality”

"Intersectionality" may be academic jargon, but the concept of "all for one and one for all" is really not that hard to understand.

At moments like this, that really has to be our rallying cry.

No more "First they came for someone else, and I said nothing." Come for any of us and you have you go through all of us.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:28 AM on May 15, 2017 [68 favorites]


I have been wondering whether or not, in a few generations, they'll be discussing the Liberal age in the same way people discuss the Cathars today. Whether the movement with its roots in the enlightenment, which broadly flourished between World War 2 and the early 21st century, will have been wiped out, to the extent that all sorts of myths will flourish. “The Liberals built a model society. They solved racism and sexism. In the Liberal utopia, there were no men or women anymore, only persons. But then they turned inward, dissolving into incomprehensible ideologies of “intersectionality” and “postmodernism”, and died out. By the time the Liberals were wiped out in the Regrettable Necessity, the culture was a toxic, twisted parody of itself.”

Wow, fun thought experiment! Let's examine a few of these premises:
> Liberals built a model society - Maybe. For nominally left leaning white guys, that could be true. There's a lot of people of color, women, and LGBTQ folks who would be scratching their heads at what sort of 'model' we're talking about here.

>There were no men and women any more, only persons - Hahaha.

> Intersectionality and post-modernism are incomprehensible - I was confused by this at first, but then I remembered that you seem to think that we were living in a genderless utopia until something magically changed all that a few months ago.

> Liberalism is toxic - You might be right about this one, but not insofar as "intersectionality" is responsible for it.
posted by codacorolla at 5:33 AM on May 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


Republicans Are Abetting Trump’s Abuse of Power
What Ryan has done is surrender his own fundamental powers to Trump, knowing that people he likes and respects are telling reporters that Trump’s presence in the White House terrifies them.

Republicans know that, one way or another, this could end horrifically. They know they will be complicit if it does. And they’re abetting Trump anyway.

posted by T.D. Strange at 5:40 AM on May 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


> Let's examine a few of these premises:

codacorolla, my read on acb's comment was that those were examples of the myths that would flourish, not their actual beliefs.
posted by Westringia F. at 5:45 AM on May 15, 2017 [26 favorites]


So without the tireless work of his aids to steer him away from the stupidest shit, he would be even worse?

More precisely, without the tireless work of his aides to steer him away from the shit that's going to make him look even dumber by being an easily exposed falsehood.
posted by Etrigan at 5:55 AM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


RE: that politico story:

I'm almost as troubled by the fact that the deputy national security adviser is bringing unvetted e-mail chain fodder to the president for his consideration. That says to me that the entrenched idiocy goes several levels deep.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 5:55 AM on May 15, 2017 [27 favorites]


Who ever brings grandpa the most outrageous forwarded email gains the most favour.
posted by Artw at 5:58 AM on May 15, 2017 [28 favorites]


> That says to me that the entrenched idiocy goes several levels deep.

well if it's true what they say about grade-A people hiring grade-A people and grade-B people hiring grade-C people, what do you think happens when grade-F people are the ones doing the hiring?
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 5:58 AM on May 15, 2017 [24 favorites]


That says to me that the entrenched idiocy goes several levels deep.

Idiocy or trolling or petty revenge? Wasn't she going to be punished with a posting to Singapore?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:58 AM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Republicans know that, one way or another, this could end horrifically. They know they will be complicit if it does. And they’re abetting Trump anyway.

My spouse and I were discussing this last night, and my feeling is that Republicans (at least the nevertrumpbutokaymaybethisonce types) are physically afraid of Trump's followers. They're electorally afraid of the rising tide of centrists turning leftward and people who never bothered to vote turning into people who will accost them at town halls, but that only makes them fear losing their cushy gigs in Congress. They fear that the Trumpists are going to literally murder them if they go against him.
posted by Etrigan at 6:00 AM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


>They fear that the Trumpists are going to literally murder them if they go against him.

"Look I'm very tired and I'd like to go to bed but you see there are angry vipers in my bed and they'll poison me if I lift the covers.

Pardon me, what's that?

Oh, who put the vipers there, you ask? I did! I put the vipers there. But still they are very scary, wow."
posted by Tevin at 6:04 AM on May 15, 2017 [62 favorites]


well if it's true what they say about grade-A people hiring grade-A people and grade-B people hiring grade-C people, what do you think happens when grade-F people are the ones doing the hiring?

Apparently they get persuaded to hire intelligence assets.
posted by jaduncan at 6:06 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


(And fascism learns and evolves. Pinochet's Operation Condor was superior in efficacy to Hitler's Endlösung and Franco's mass graves. (Why build Auschwitz when you have the Atacama desert, for one?) If today's far right, be they Dominionists like Pence, “Eurasians” like Dugin, old-school Nazis like Spencer, reactionaries like Farage or Sessions, or some coalition of those—seize power and institute their own programs, these will have built upon the successes and learned from the miscalculations of past fascists. They will also have the benefit of big data and mass surveillance, a hint of which we have seen in the two electoral upsets of last year.)
posted by acb at 6:17 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Mod note: A couple deleted. Let's skip the dystopian fan fic stuff, please.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:27 AM on May 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


What the fuck just happened today hasn't updated in days and I'm getting scared.
posted by Don Pepino at 6:27 AM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


It doesn't update on weekends.
posted by zarq at 6:29 AM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Whew, thanks.
posted by Don Pepino at 6:32 AM on May 15, 2017


What Ryan has done is surrender his own fundamental powers to Trump, knowing that people he likes and respects are telling reporters that Trump’s presence in the White House terrifies them.

This was basically my postcard campaign to all of my reps and to P. Ryan this morning. We can no longer believe the information coming from the White House. The man in the Oval Office is emotionally unstable, easily angered, and unpredictable. Who can we turn to in a national crisis? Who can we trust?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:37 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


As far as establishment Republican politicians being physically afraid of Trumpian thugs, I can't say, but it does seem that they are shocked, shocked at the anger of their constituents - as well as annoyed: how dare these plebes! I surmise that this is something they had not counted on. They probably didn't have to deal with raucous town halls and cries of "Do Your Job!" before this - just a sparse audience of the usual diehards and maybe a crank or two. They were counting on the vast majority of their constituents being too apathetic or busy with other things to show up.

They may be trying their best to gerrymander the Democrats out of power, but how are they going to gerrymander their cheering sections back? People are going to start figuring out that yes, the leopards WILL eat their faces. Rats, sinking ships, etc. Dirty tricks and distancing is the Emperor's way of holding on to power when people start to catch on that he's nekkid.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 6:37 AM on May 15, 2017 [18 favorites]


SMH from the politico piece:
McFarland, who is expected to leave the NSC for the ambassadorship to Singapore, did not respond to requests for comment about bringing the president a fake news magazine cover. But another White House official familiar with the matter tried to defend it as an honest error that was “fake but accurate.”
posted by spitbull at 6:39 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]




For all of you guys who are uneasy about the rise of Fascism and worried about the cycle of power-- welcome to my world. Since I've been a teenager I've known that women have been elevated to (near) equal status several times in history only to lose that status and return to mere chattel in a generation. I've known that Roe v. Wade is not written in stone. Long before dystopian novels became popular with Millenials I would say that any thinking woman has known in her bones that one big crisis could lead to a loss of all the freedoms we have fought so hard for.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:44 AM on May 15, 2017 [57 favorites]


More SCOTUS: No action on the Masterpiece Cakeshop case, where a bakery refused to make wedding cake for a same-sex couple.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:44 AM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


melissasaurus, do you happen to have an ELI5 for the voter ID case?
posted by INFJ at 6:55 AM on May 15, 2017


Daily Kos: About that Trump indictment story...
posted by cenoxo at 6:59 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]



There are no jobs in rural areas and no affordable housing in urban ones.

Universal basic income and guaranteed price-controlled housing would solve both those problems. Just sayin'.


The US is the wealthiest nation in the world, with the biggest economy, despite having about a fourth of the population of #2 China. We could indeed decide to devote our society's resorces to these projects, in which people's jobs would be participating in the economy -- buying and selling things and moving the money around, instead of letting it pile up among the wealthy.

And all it would take is, essentially, taxing that wealth that has already piled up among the wealthy. Which is why the Republican obsession with tax cuts for the rich represents a vote for serfdom for the rest of us.

Conservatives and anti-Marxist sentiment managed to shut down discussion of class warfare, but that fact only made the war one-sided, and so the wealthy think they've won. But this country is still a democracy, and we can choose otherwise. Let's do so.
posted by Gelatin at 6:59 AM on May 15, 2017 [39 favorites]


IMPORTANT MONDAY BUSINESS- I was talking a walk down memory lane looking at comments I favorited, and I am concerned that we made sotonohito literally eat his words when he said the AHCA would pass. He did end up being right! I think this means we all have to eat OUR words/actions and have cake, too.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:01 AM on May 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


Tax reform scheduling update: the House Ways and Means committee holds its first tax reform hearing this Thursday (5/18): Hearing on How Tax Reform Will Grow Our Economy and Create Jobs. They are accepting public submissions to be entered into the hearing record (details on how to submit a statement here - must be single spaced Word doc, less than 10 pgs long). If your rep is on the committee (list here), consider calling or faxing them before Thursday on a tax reform issue that you care about.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:01 AM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


melissasaurus, do you happen to have an ELI5 for the voter ID case?

It's the "they targeted black voters with surgical precision" case. Here's a write-up from Ari Berman last year.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:03 AM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]




I guess they need one more republican on the court to make it a rubber stamp for fascism. Or is the new guy not seated yet?
posted by Artw at 7:09 AM on May 15, 2017


I read all 9 justices were voting this morning.
posted by spitbull at 7:11 AM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Universal basic income and guaranteed price-controlled housing would solve both those problems. Just sayin'.

Rainbow stew for everyone!
posted by spitbull at 7:12 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


That's basically it, Artw. Gorsuch reset the Court to its Scalia balance. The next Trump justice brings the hammer.
posted by notyou at 7:15 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


From that Daily Kos link re: Indictments are coming! Indictments are coming!

We do know that a grand jury has been empaneled in the Eastern District of Virginia under Attorney Dana Boente, and has issued subpoenas to associates of Michael Flynn. Subpoenas are not indictments, although this proves the existence of the grand jury and the jurisdiction.

But that's about it. And after review,

Let's skip the dystopian fan fic stuff, please.

"A dystopia (from the Greek δυσ- and τόπος, alternatively, cacotopia, kakotopia, or simply anti-utopia) is a community or society that is undesirable or frightening. It is translated as 'not-good place'"

The fiction seems fairly arguable compared to more recent times [real]. It must be the "fan" part.
posted by petebest at 7:15 AM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Kind of amazed to see a US government institution functioning. Has the Nazi judge issued a dissent yet?
posted by Artw at 7:16 AM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


I read all 9 justices were voting this morning.

The Court hears a case if four justices want to, so the refusal to grant cert means that at least six of them were like "Nope, not touching that."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:16 AM on May 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


Roberts probably realized that to keep its legitimacy, SCOTUS has to appear legitimate.
posted by Glibpaxman at 7:21 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Spitbull, that part of the Politico article jumped out at me. Several years ago, before Trump was even a blip on my radar, I got into an angry discussion with an old high school buddy who posted a fake quote from someone? Lincoln? that was easily debunked by the most cursory of internet searches. I called him on it, and he said, "But it's a good thought, right? Doesn't really matter if the attribution is wrong : )"
At that time, I wrote a barely-constrained-from-being-an-hysterical-rant message back to him. Stating, in essence, "I beg your pardon, but no. It DOES matter. How can we BEGIN to have tough but important discussions if things like this don't matter? How can we argue in good faith if people care not for basic FACTS?! This is a crucial problem in our current rhetoric, thanks, Facebook, and I don't see where we go from here if facts no longer matter." I, being a woman, being MYSELF, mistakenly tacked on an apology for tone, saying something like, "you pulled this right when I've had it UP TO HERE with such shenanigans, sorry to absolutely blast you." He replied, "Sorry you are having a tough time ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "
AMAZING GRAR MONSTER!!!! I hid him and will never willingly speak to him again. I sure wish I hadn't tone-policed myself.
But that was then, before I knew what hell was on the horizon. And I blame my ex-friend and every other asshole who let feelings be more important than facts, because here we are, in a world that's rapidly devolving and causing me to lose all hope.
posted by thebrokedown at 7:22 AM on May 15, 2017 [41 favorites]


From that Daily Kos link re: Indictments are coming! Indictments are coming!

according to mensch and TrueFactsStated… and dailykos does a bunch of fine-toothed parsing to talk themselves into it.

this is no closer to being proven that it was when mensch first started yammering about it.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:23 AM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Does any rational person not suspect Mensch and Taylor are sources of calculated disinformation, most likely funded by russia and fed just enough little "true" things to set us up for the big fake news con?
posted by spitbull at 7:35 AM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


Roberts probably realized that to keep its legitimacy, SCOTUS has to appear legitimate.

If so, we have to grant some praise.
posted by spitbull at 7:37 AM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Does any rational person not suspect Mensch and Taylor are sources of calculated disinformation, most likely funded by russia and fed just enough little "true" things to set us up for the big fake news con?

I don't know how rational I am, but I suspect them of being dumber than malicious. They may be fed disinformation, but I don't think they're being funded to pass it along.
posted by Etrigan at 7:43 AM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


re: mensch, indictments against trump, etc.

I think a healthy dose of skepisicim is good, along with holding onto a thread of hope. We don't know enough, don't have enough evidence. I've watched and read about it in multiple ways over the weekend, and I do believe that Taylor and Mensch believe it's true.

They've been hammering about this since they first broke it. They haven't changed the message. When an element was proven wrong, Taylor spoke up about it but insisted the rest was true. So, that leads me to believe one or two things: They're wrong and pulling everyone along or they're right.

What I can't figure out is what would be driving them if they're wrong and fooling all of us. What's their incentive? Ok, I'll grant some exposure and celebrity status. I'll even mention that Mensch asks for donations. Taylor doesn't though, and I've not seen either ask for donations or financial support in twitter since this story broke.

Liars lie to either avoid getting into 'trouble' or they lie for some sort of gain. I am not seeing the gain here.

They might be totally wrong or their sources are wrong. I'm not taking it as gospel, and I'm not saying everyone should abandon their caution. To quote the dailykos article, we still have to “wait and see.”
posted by INFJ at 7:44 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Please forgive my ad hom:

My default stance for anything related to Mensch is always extreme scepticism. She is a woman who notably stuck out as having a troubled relationship with the truth whilst being a Tory MP, and was accused of leaking details of the phone hacking investigation to Murdoch/News International. That is, I think it's fair to say, quite an impressive feat. After that, she failed with a really remarkably stupid startup (it was a twitter clone called Menshn), got a reputation for complaining about cyberbullying (good), proceeded to cyberbully a 17 year old, wherupon the following happened:
In May 2015, after that year's general election, Mensch was accused of cyberbullying Abby Tomlinson, the teenaged leader of the 'Milifandom'.[49] Mensch denied the accusation, asserting that she had only criticised Tomlinson.[50] Shortly afterwards, she wrote a 4,000-word blog entry to reiterate that she had not bullied Tomlinson and made new assertions about the sixth-form student.[51]
Tl;dr: I really don't like Louise Mensch, and don't consider her a reliable narrator. If it wasn't for the fact that she guessed or got an actual source to tell her about the Trump campaign FISA warrant, I'd feel free to continue ignoring whatever she said.
posted by jaduncan at 7:46 AM on May 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


Whatever kudos Roberts earns for not actually overturning the NC ruling, he loses for his pissbaby "statement respecting the denial of certiorari" emphasizing that the case as it stands now is a procedural nightmare because Roy Cooper has withdrawn all official support for the law and the GOP legislature is trying to keep the case alive on its own, which is super questionable. So he just wanted to make absolutely clear that they didn't necessarily deny review because of the merits of the case, i.e. because the NC law is flagrantly racist voter suppression -- meaning if anybody else, hint hint Wisconsin nudge nudge Michigan, wink wink Kentucky -- wants to try their luck, the Supreme Court won't not have their back, if you know what I mean.

John Roberts is vile.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:46 AM on May 15, 2017 [39 favorites]




Some trenchant both-sidesey analysis from NPR's Mara Liasson

For what it's worth, she's been a contributor to Fox News since 1997, and with NPR since 1985.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:57 AM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


I think a healthy dose of skepisicim is good, along with holding onto a thread of hope. We don't know enough, don't have enough evidence.

By the way, I really appreciate MeFi being a good source of this "hopeful skepticism". The local progressive Facebook group is full of some characters, let me tell you. A few weeks ago a picture of a local rally turned into a pretty gross argument about not wanting violence at rallies = anti-black-bloc, therefore you're a $%$ jackboot thug when it was real obvious that the two parties weren't even working off of the same definitions of what black bloc is, and then late last week there was a post about "It's all blowing up! They're coming to arrest Ryan tonight, and 45 might be next!" Which, I mean, c'mon.

So thanks, mods, and community. Y'all are fantastic.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:02 AM on May 15, 2017 [21 favorites]


roomthreeseventeen: School turns away immigration agent looking for 4th grader: “Mayor’s been briefed on a fed immig agent showing up at Queens’ PS58 Thurs. asking about a 4th grader. School turned him away,” Mayor de Blasio’s press secretary Eric Phillips tweeted.

The federal agent didn’t have a warrant, Phillips added.


I'm sure we won't know until post-Trump, but is there any chance that ICE agents are given quotas on people to deport? I ask because why in the name of the gods above and below would anyone go after a 4th grader? Wasn't the whole (fake) justification supposed to be "get rid of the bad hombres"?

Because now it sounds like it's really hard work to actually find the violent offenders, and it's easier to go to churches and FOOKING SCHOOLS to deport kids, who are in all likelihood, exactly the sort of people Republicans want around - good kids who go to school, and honest folks who attend church.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:02 AM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Dirty tricks and distancing is the Emperor's way of holding on to power when people start to catch on that he's nekkid.

One thing to keep in mind regarding the "naked Emperor" analogy is that the story is based on the concept of shame. The Emperor is terribly embarrassed when he finds out that he is, in fact, naked.
Now, clinical psychopaths do not experience shame. So, yes, the Emperor is naked. But he doesn't care one bit.
posted by sour cream at 8:03 AM on May 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


So, I don't know about individual ICE agents, but ICE itself has a detention bed quota. Read it and weep. It ain't new.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:04 AM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Spicy lunch is on today. Guess he hasn't been canned yet.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:05 AM on May 15, 2017


East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94: Wow, Lindsay must have some pretty amazing social science research to say definitively that Russia's actions didn't result in Trump winning by a few thousand votes in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin thereby deciding the election! I wish he'd share it with us!

Oh, he doesn't need of that fancy research - he just knows that voter ID laws made it harder for populations that tend to vote for Democrats to vote at all.

Potato, fuck-you-got-mine.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:07 AM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'd say that at this point the Emperor has lost all capacity to even comprehend the concept of nudity.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:07 AM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm sure we won't know until post-Trump

post-Trump

I want to knock wood every time I see this. Sometimes it feels like even odds Ivanka will be Second of Her Name, followed by Junior and Eric, and after that it's Barron, now graying and battle-scarred, launching his Palace CyberCoup and dissolving the Great Council Of MAGA and you know the rest.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:09 AM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


I'd say that at this point the Emperor has lost all capacity to even comprehend the concept of nudity.

the CONCEPT of PANTS is FAKE NEWS
posted by murphy slaw at 8:09 AM on May 15, 2017 [22 favorites]


the CONCEPT of PANTS is FAKE NEWS

"PANTS"

Needs more misapplied quotation marks.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:14 AM on May 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


the concept of pants is pretty bullshit
posted by ryanrs at 8:16 AM on May 15, 2017 [29 favorites]


So it's Monday and time for another busy work week. These days, however, Monday makes me wonder what the hell Trump & Associates is going to throw at us for this week.

This last several months has just been exhausting. We'll get through it. But damn.
posted by azpenguin at 8:16 AM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Do you think -- and I ask this entirely seriously -- do you think we can turn that trend?

Well, like the good honorary Jew that I am, my short answer to that comes from Rabbi Tarfon: "It is not your responsibility to finish the work of perfecting the world, but you are not free to desist from it either."
Pirke Avot 2:21


The long answer: I'm a teacher. I believe in the possibility of a better future.

At the same time, I live in Pakistan. In 2011, my schoolmate's father was assassinated by a police officer who was part of his personal security detail for suggesting that our blasphemy laws required judicial/legislative review. Later that year, I discovered that a former student was the producer for a band that became popular by satirizing Pakistani politics (featured on Metafilter), some of the satire targeting the mass adulation of said police officer.

In 2013, my ophthalmologist was assassinated, along with his twelve year old in one of an ongoing series of targeted killings of Shia Muslims. The following year, I watched his elder son make his way to the top of the Pakistani high school debate circuit. The same elder son who would have been in the car with his father and kid brother if he hadn't stayed home to prepare for the junior high national debate final.

In 2015, my good friend from college was assassinated on her way home from the cafe cum lecture and performance space that she had founded a few years previously (also featured on metafilter). It's still a matter of considerable debate whether she was targeted for running events celebrating love, freer interaction between genders, and the performing arts or for hosting a talk about the disappeared of Balochistan in the face of considerable state opposition. Her space has been kept open by her single mother. Some of the debate folk in her city want to start a memorial tournament in her honor.

Those are just the people with whom I had a personal connection. It doesn't include the litany of names that I was familiar with, or the unbearably large number of mass attacks, some within earshot of my home.

What does this have to do with your question? Just that living where I do, in this particular era, has given me much time to learn that I have to focus on Rabbi Tarfon's teaching if I am to go on.

I don't know if we can help turn the tide. I do know that my sanity lies in working on it anyway.
posted by bardophile at 8:16 AM on May 15, 2017 [191 favorites]


So it's Monday and time for another busy work week. These days, however, Monday makes me wonder what the hell Trump & Associates is going to throw at us for this week.

Trump is going on his world tour, no? That should be embarrassing.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:18 AM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


palomar: I would like to move out of this state, to either Alaska or rural New Mexico or northeast Ohio, where my very best friend lives. But I'm stuck here in the orbit of Seattle, whether I like it or not, because I promised to stay near my grandmother until she dies. Once she's gone, I can leave. I'm lucky enough to have a job that may very well be portable, since I already work remotely for a company based in another state, otherwise I wouldn't even be considering this very seriously.

Please do join us here in New Mexico, but make sure the quiet little town has decent internet service and cell coverage, because rural NM can be remote in a number of ways.

Similarly, you'll have to be OK driving a good distance for groceries, and even farther for medical care. It's really hard to bring a rural community back from the brink for so many reasons, which all feed into each other. The local economy drops because mining or farming or a government facility shut down, so some people leave and find work elsewhere, so then the doctors and dentists leave because there's not enough people to support them. Then some more people leave to be closer to those services, and then the grocery stores shut down because the population can't support them. Then more people leave because it's a hassle to drive an hour to get milk and eggs, and then the schools shrink and it's harder to keep qualified teachers, and more families leave. All the while, people can't sell their homes because no one is moving in, so they leave their houses to fall apart, and more people leave because the town just feels blighted.

But there's still people who live there and need services, from water to fire protection to general transportation, so there's still a small government facility. Maybe it's only open a few days a week now, where the town clerk is the local notary and an EMT and a few other jobs, because they have to keep the town operating and following state and federal regulations.

I work with people from small, rural towns and visit them often, and while some part of me would love to move out there, I know that won't happen for a good number of the reasons, many listed above.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:19 AM on May 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


roomthreeseventeen: Trump is going on his world tour, no? That should be embarrassing.

Foreign Policy: NATO Frantically Tries to Trump-Proof President’s First Visit


“It’s like they’re preparing to deal with a child — someone with a short attention span and mood who has no knowledge of NATO, no interest in in-depth policy issues, nothing,” said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity."
posted by bluecore at 8:24 AM on May 15, 2017 [26 favorites]


So the NYT is leading with G.O.P. Senators Begin Edging Away From the President and the article below it is ‘You Can’t Be Cute About Tapes’: Concern Over Trump Threat to Comey.

Surely This!TM
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:25 AM on May 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


ThePinkSuperhero: There are alternative solutions to the problem of sotonohito having already eaten the cake.
posted by McCoy Pauley at 8:28 AM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


> So the NYT is leading with G.O.P. Senators Begin Edging Away From the President

Are Republican Senators Really "Pulling Away from Trump"?
Well, I don't see any of them joining with Chuck Schumer to say that the Senate shouldn't approve a new FBI director until a Russiagate special counsel is appointed. There's hand-wringing from the likes of Lindsey Graham about the possibility that Trump will choose a politician for the job, but if the past is any indication, Graham and other skeptics will fall in line no matter whom Trump chooses. [...]

Steinhauer concedes this:
So far, Republicans have refrained from bucking the president en masse, in part to avoid undermining their intense push to put health care and tax bills on his desk this year. And the Republican leadership, including Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader, and the House speaker, Paul D. Ryan of Wisconsin, remains behind Mr. Trump.
Oh, OK. So this story is a big nothingburger.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:29 AM on May 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


Rep. Al Green calls for impeachment.

So what does that mean?
posted by zrail at 8:30 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Nothing, probably.
posted by Artw at 8:32 AM on May 15, 2017


Oh, OK. So this story is a big nothingburger

if concerns were horses

it would be good for the inside of GOP senators?
posted by murphy slaw at 8:32 AM on May 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


Rep. Al Green calls for impeachment.

"Whatever you want to do
is all right with me..."
posted by entropicamericana at 8:32 AM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


He saw that Maxine Waters was Tired of Being Alone?
posted by zombieflanders at 8:33 AM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


bluecore: Foreign Policy: NATO Frantically Tries to Trump-Proof President’s First Visit

“It’s like they’re preparing to deal with a child — someone with a short attention span and mood who has no knowledge of NATO, no interest in in-depth policy issues, nothing,” said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity."


My first thoughts were 1) "Budweiser-proofing," which is making public parks near high concentrations of college students more durable to drunken stupidity, and 2) childproofing, including putting plastic baffles on door handles that make it hard for little hands to open doors they shouldn't open.

2017: the year that 1) the president's staff has to have "a system to manage and document the paperwork [he] receives" (Politico, from upthread), and 2) other countries have to plan for a belligerent child-CEO (upthread) when Trump visits.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:38 AM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


oh noes! trump is losing ann coulter!

and nothing of value was lost.

(naturally she's off the train because he's so ineffective at being horrible)
posted by murphy slaw at 8:41 AM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Burhanistan: Rep. Al Green calls for impeachment.

zrail: So what does that mean?

It means that an elected official, even if a Dem, has finally said what we've all wanted to be said. This moves the discussion from "is he unfit to serve? If he is now, what is the threshold that is the step too far?" to "how can we actually proceed to impeach him?"

Other elected officials will be asked about this, and this can become a talking point for reporters, even if the Republicans all push back and say "no, he's totally fine," they can then be asked "when would he be impeachable in your eyes?"

And if they're up for re-election, their words matter, not only for them, but their whole party. Because, as Glibpaxman pointed out upthread: Democrats in Congress should be subtly hinting to their Republican colleagues that impeachment in 2017-18 = President Ryan. Impeachment in 2019 = President Pelosi.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:44 AM on May 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


oh noes! trump is losing ann coulter! ... (naturally she's off the train because he's so ineffective at being horrible)

She's off the train because she needs to stay on TV. She doesn't care the slightest bit about politics beyond whether they allow her to stay on TV and sell more books and increase the brand value of Ann Coulter (tm).
posted by Etrigan at 8:45 AM on May 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


Whew, thanks.

No problem. :)
posted by zarq at 8:46 AM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


It means that an elected official, even if a Dem, has finally said what we've all wanted to be said.

Auntie Maxine has already called for impeachment.

(as usual, not paid attention until a man does it).
posted by Dashy at 8:47 AM on May 15, 2017 [64 favorites]


zrail Rep. Al Green calls for impeachment.

So what does that mean?

From a legislative sense, absolutely nothing. From an Overton Window sense possibly something valuable.

Legislatively we're not going to get impeachment, well, probably ever. This is due to the Pedophile Rule, AKA the Hastert Rule (named after infamous Republican pedophile Denny Hastert). It's only in effect when the Republicans have a majority, the Democrats don't do anything like it, but under the Pedophile Rule the House will not consider any legislation that does not have the support of the majority of the majority party. That is, unless you can get 120 Republicans to agree to impeachment any bill for impeachment will never even get to the floor.

If 119 Republicans and every Democrat in the House wanted a bill they'd have a majority of the House, but not a majority of the Republicans in the House, so the bill would die.

As long as the Republicans have a majority the Pedophile Rule is in place, and that means impeachment is off the table.

From an Overton Window standpoint Green's call for impeachment may be a big deal. Until now only fringe types like me were advocating impeachment. Now we've got a real US Representative putting it on the table, that's going to change the way impeachment is discussed nationwide.
posted by sotonohito at 8:48 AM on May 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


why do i suspect that it still won't count until a white congressman calls for impeachment
posted by murphy slaw at 8:49 AM on May 15, 2017 [21 favorites]


An impeachment resolution is a privileged item, and does not require the approval of the Speaker to be brought to the floor.

(Or at least that was the case back in the 1970's. There was a guy who wanted to impeach Nixon for bombing Cambodia, and Tip O'Neill et al were terrified that's he'd bring impeachment to the floor too early, blunting momentum before the Watergate investigation was ready. So they always made sure to have someone on the floor to prevent this from happening.)
posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:55 AM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


A few Democrats have been calling on Congress to investigate and then impeach Trump if reasons are found. Jamie Raskin was calling for impeachment investigations over Trump's violations of the Emoluments clause before the inauguration.
posted by zarq at 8:56 AM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Elsewhere on the barricades, NY State AG Eric Schneiderman is keeping on fighting the good fight against Trump. He's one of the SAsG who has petitioned Rod Rosenstein about appointing an an independent special counsel into the Trump/Russia scandal, as mentioned above-thread. While his investigation into the Trump Foundation is ongoing, he seems open to expanding into Trump's Russian ties, although he'd like to give Congress and the FBI just one more chance to do the right thing.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:58 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Dashy, sorry I overlooked her prior call, thanks for the reminder!

CNN has a slightly dated (5/12/2017) running list of Democrats who have discussed impeachment:
  1. California Rep. Maxine Waters
  2. Texas Rep. Al Green
  3. California Rep. Jared Huffman
  4. Kentucky Rep. John Yarmuth
  5. Wisconsin Rep. Mark Pocan
  6. Connecticut Sen. Richard Blumenthal
  7. New York Rep. Hakeem Jeffries
  8. Hawaii Rep. Tulsi Gabbard
  9. Minnesota Rep. Keith Ellison
  10. Texas Rep. Joaquin Castro
  11. Maryland Rep. Jamie Raskin
Most merely mention the possibility impeachment, but only Representatives Waters and Green are actively calling for impeachment, per CNN's tally and summary.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:58 AM on May 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


Every little helps, I guess.
posted by Artw at 9:00 AM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


>>> 2017: the year that 1) the president's staff has to have "a system to manage and document the paperwork [he] receives" (Politico, from upthread)

Any executive with a job even half as complex as the presidency is surrounded by a "system" for paperwork. The notable thing about the Politico article is that there wasn't one from the get-go, which speaks to Trump's personality. It just didn't have as many ramifications for the wider world when he was merely head of The Trump Organization.
posted by AndrewInDC at 9:01 AM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Interesting. I would have thought that list would be a lot longer.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:01 AM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm going to contact Lacy Clay's office and ask him to publicly call for impeachment.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 9:02 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Sophie, all of my reps have tweeted/facebooked calling for an independent investigation into Trump. My general guess is that's what most of them are saying.
posted by INFJ at 9:03 AM on May 15, 2017


But let's face it, an investigation isn't really required to know he needs impeaching.
posted by Artw at 9:06 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


AndrewInDC: Any executive with a job even half as complex as the presidency is surrounded by a "system" for paperwork.

True, but this particular system is necessary because his staff doesn't even know what he's talking about, so they want to track the sources of his free-form talking points so they can react accordingly.

Vote for a clown, expect a circus. Who know it would be the ring leader who's throwing poop at the audience, and not the disgruntled animals?
posted by filthy light thief at 9:18 AM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Get toddler under oath, and it's alllll over as soon as he starts talking. But yeah, the self-incriminating evidence will increase even before that.

As we've already heard and read, he cannot tell a straight story, ever, and the truth is, well .... not something he's familiar with.

That he let on, with no prompting whatsoever!, about his "tapping" is already a start.
posted by Dashy at 9:20 AM on May 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


Rep. Al Green calls for impeachment.

Now I'm humming "Guilty" and "I Stand Accused."
posted by octobersurprise at 9:28 AM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]




Finite energy resources! That piece of idiocy is to precious bodily fluids as pea-in-a-pod is to pea-in-a-pod.

(Mystery meat goes to WaPo and a preciousbodilyfluidsstream on the youtube.)
posted by Don Pepino at 9:35 AM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


uh if his golf pants are any indication, i don't think trump is in danger of running out of … energy any time soon.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:37 AM on May 15, 2017


For those who can't watch, Ari Melber and Sarah Jeong are live tweeting the 9th circuit arguments.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:37 AM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Impeachment is not going to happen.
Neither is an independent investigation.

Anything close to that would put the people involved in the immediate crosshairs - followed by vicious slandering of them, their relatives and their friends. And if that doesn't work, then there's actual blackmailing, followed by physical intimidation, followed by actual violence, followed by putting those in charge of the investigation in jail on trumped-up charges like "obstruction of government work" or whatever.

This is the new reality, get used to it.
posted by sour cream at 9:38 AM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


This is new-to-me:

Kellyanne Conway used to say she needed a shower after defending Donald Trump on air

“This is a woman, by the way, who came on our show during the campaign and would shill for Trump in extensive fashion,” Brzezinski said. “And then she would get off the air, the camera would be turned off, the microphone would be taken off and she would say, ‘Blech, I need to take a shower,’ because she disliked her candidate so much.”
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 9:43 AM on May 15, 2017 [37 favorites]


This is the new reality, get used to it.

I think everything I've read about the Overton Window and the intentionally overwhelming effects of fascism recommend the exact opposite.
posted by bibliowench at 9:43 AM on May 15, 2017 [42 favorites]


> This is the new reality, get used to it.

"You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is never try."
posted by tonycpsu at 9:45 AM on May 15, 2017 [28 favorites]


Trump's promised hotline for Department of Veterans Affairs complaints has not materialized, and there is no timeline for it to do so.

On the campaign trail, Trump pledged the hotline would be “active 24 hours a day and answered by a real person,” and even suggested that he would answer it himself if the opportunity arose.

“This could keep me very busy at night, folks,” he told a crowd of supporters during a July 26 rally last summer. “This will take the place of Twitter.”


Does the VA cover snake oil?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:46 AM on May 15, 2017 [26 favorites]


Is there a word specifically for a justice system where the legality of an action is determined by the result of an opinion poll about that action?

Yes, yes "tyranny," "republicanism," etc .. but is there a specific word that just describes that phenomenon by itself?
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:48 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


jaduncan: "After that, she [Louise Mesnsch] failed with a really remarkably stupid startup (it was a twitter clone called Menshn)"

Holy cow. This sounds too stupid to be real, like a throwaway gag (not even substantial enough for a B-plot) on Silicon Valley. And yet, here we are. At the same time, I can't help but wonder what other kinds of stupid, me-too startups we could get if celebrities just decided to do random stuff based off of puns on their names. I, for one, look forward to Steve Inskeep's AirBnB clone, InnsKeepr.
posted by mhum at 9:51 AM on May 15, 2017 [23 favorites]


Direct democracy?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:52 AM on May 15, 2017


<actually>
direct democracy would be if there was a plebiscite on impeachment. polls are statistical samples.
</actually>
posted by murphy slaw at 9:56 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Corey Lewandowski told client he could get Trump to fire officials by badmouthing them on Hannity: report
According to a big profile of Lewandowski in GQ, the one-time Trump campaign chief told medical AI startup Flow Health that he could help them get Veterans Administration Secretary David Shulkin fired by badmouthing him on Hannity’s Fox News program.

“Lewandowski proposed using an upcoming appearance on Hannity’s Fox News program to brand Shulkin a ‘bad hombre’ who needed to be fired,” GQ writes. “After seeing him trash his VA secretary on his favorite cable-news channel, Lewandowski said, Trump would almost certainly call him to find out what was up.”
This is a woman, by the way, who came on our show during the campaign and would shill for Trump in extensive fashion,”

But think of the antibodies she must have from her previous job as Ted Cruz's spokesperson.


Does the VA cover snake oil?

What about snake bites?
posted by Room 641-A at 10:03 AM on May 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


Is there a word specifically for a justice system where the legality of an action is determined by the result of an opinion poll about that action?

Ochlocracy
posted by srboisvert at 10:04 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Washington Post: Syria using crematorium to hide executions, State Department says

I almost can't think of a more inflammatory narrative to put out there. It's almost as if the Trump Administration is trying to re-set the news cycle.

Countdown to cruise missile launch or worse starts now.
posted by martin q blank at 10:05 AM on May 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Morning Joe’ Hosts: Conway Said She Needed A Shower After Defending Trump

I hope someone prints that out for Donald in case the TiVo didn't pick it up
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:06 AM on May 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


What about snake bites?

pre-existing condition: we knew he was a snake when we let him in.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:06 AM on May 15, 2017 [35 favorites]


Washington Post: Syria using crematorium to hide executions, State Department says

I've heard this story before. Now where was it? What could it possibly have been...

Oh, yeah.

May, 2015: Russia Is Using Mobile Crematoriums to Hide Ukraine Dead.
posted by zarq at 10:13 AM on May 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


Is it Saddam Hussein and the fake babies news time again?
posted by Yowser at 10:13 AM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]




This is the new reality, get used to it.

It's this and the more elaborate dystopian fanfic variations of this sentiment that makes these threads frustrating and tedious to follow.

Where can the conversation go after "get used to it."? Who gains by discussing this administration only in terms of how ruthless and indestructible they ultimately are?

Taking a "the world is brutal and heartless and fucked and there's absolutely nothing anybody can do about it" stance might feel like you're being critical of something but ultimately you're only supporting/sustaining the image of absolute control and power that they crave.

The Trump administration is an unpopular barely controlled mess that's being propped up by the GOP for unpopular self-serving, short-sighted reasons.
posted by AtoBtoA at 10:16 AM on May 15, 2017 [106 favorites]


I very much doubt Putin is going to allow Trump to fake-bomb Assad again.
posted by Artw at 10:18 AM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


it's easier to go to churches and FOOKING SCHOOLS to deport kids, who are in all likelihood, exactly the sort of people Republicans want around - good kids who go to school, and honest folks who attend church.

You need to separate normal Republican motives and Bannon-type motives if you want to understand this, because while it makes no sense under the former, it makes a lot of sense under the latter - and in fact, I bleakly predicted it six months ago.

If you want to stop demographic shifts in the US, that you perceive are driven by illegal immigrants and birthright citizenship, as the Bannons of the world do, then you need to somehow prevent new citizens from being born or being rooted in America such that they will stay. While I predicted ICE patrolling hospitals as well, which hasn't happened yet, the schools make a ton of sense - because if your fourth-grader gets deported, no parent with feelings is going to be like "well, sad for you, kid, we're going to stay here in America and not lift a finger to help you so they don't catch us." No, the whole family will either get deported or self deport, and then the Bannons of the world have one less family on the opposite side of the "who is having more babies" scales.
posted by corb at 10:20 AM on May 15, 2017 [20 favorites]


(And yes, Assad very much is engaged in mass murder, has been so from before the inauguration)
posted by Artw at 10:20 AM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Some excerpts from a (paywalled) Tax Notes article - Legal Scholars Question Trump Attorneys’ Analysis of Russia Ties:
-“Saying he didn’t have direct dealings with a Russian company is like saying the sky is blue,” Rutgers University tax law professor Jay A. Soled

-John R. Brooks of Georgetown University Law Center concurred. “It’s certainly possible that there could be Russian-source income that’s not reflected as Russian-source income in the tax returns,” Brooks said. He noted that if income from a Russian source came through an entity in another country, it would simply show up on a return as income sourced from that country, not Russia.

-Soled questioned whether Dillon and Nelson framed their letter to Trump so that it only encompassed his income tax returns.

-Soled said that lack of specificity might fail to account for Form 709, “United States Gift (and Generation-Skipping Transfer) Tax Return,” or other non-income tax return filings by Trump.

-Neil H. Buchanan of George Washington University Law School picked up on that point, saying that Dillon and Nelson don’t define what a Russian source is, and that it’s not clear how broadly or narrowly they’re using that term. “They could mean ‘sources/lenders/entities directly owned by the Russian government.’ That would leave a lot of room for sources/lenders/entities that are located in Russia but are private,” he wrote in an email.

-Buchanan said he wouldn't expect to find any flagrantly improper Russian connection explicitly stated on Trump’s returns. But, he wrote, “information on the tax returns could be the starting point to trace the circuitous connections between Trump and Russia that are currently obscured by maneuvers that allow these lawyers to say, ‘Nothing Russian here!’”
posted by melissasaurus at 10:21 AM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


> self deport

Oof. Let's not use this Orwellian Romney-ism, please. "Emigrate" is a word.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:23 AM on May 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


You need to separate normal Republican motives and Bannon-type motives if you want to understand this

LOL.

There is no seperation.
posted by Artw at 10:26 AM on May 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


CNN: Donald Trump has a very strange theory about exercise
President Donald Trump has a number of unorthodox theories about politics. But his theory of why exercise is bad for you is the strangest I've heard yet.

"Other than golf, he considers exercise misguided, arguing that a person, like a battery, is born with a finite amount of energy," writes Evan Osnos in a piece entitled "How Trump Could Get Fired" that appears in the May 8, edition of the New Yorker.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:28 AM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


While I predicted ICE patrolling hospitals as well, which hasn't happened yet,

Undocumented woman with brain tumor seized by federal agents at Texas hospital, family fears she will die
posted by mikepop at 10:30 AM on May 15, 2017 [20 favorites]


Great new piece out from Josh Marshall about How To Understand James Comey. In the piece, Marshall details his own following of James Comey's public prominence, which started a decade ago during the US Attorney firing scandal of the second Bush Administration.
The Comey myth rests on apolitical-ness, independence and integrity. The public first became aware of it because of his harrowing account of the notorious hospital bed standoff during President Bush’s first term. He gave his first public account of the incident in the Spring of 2007. It arose during the investigations tied to the US Attorney Firing Scandal, but the events described occurred in early 2004. [...]

First, I suspect Trump offends Comey on a deep level and in many ways. To Comey’s cult of probity, discretion, independence and self-control, Trump embodies mercurial behavior, corruption, a militant disregard for all rules over the primacy of appetites and need. I think this played into Comey’s swipes at Clinton in July 2016, the slapdash, corner-cutting way of operating. With much more certainty, we can see that Comey has an eye for drama and the theatrics of justice. He will above all maintain what we might call authorial control of his own role in this unfolding drama. Until last week, Comey was known for the 2004 hospital bed stand off and then the October 2016 letter. Like Archibald Cox after the Watergate Era, I have little doubt he’ll now always be most associated with President Trump’s decision to fire him as director of the FBI.

Even if he thinks he had no better choice, Comey must realize that the October letter was a blotch on his reputation. Whether it was an impossible situation or a catastrophically bad decision, it’s not good either/way. Now he finds himself cast again in one of these public morality plays which come naturally to him and makes fertile ground for his public myth. It is his best and last chance to heal that damage and confirm his role in the public sphere. I have little doubt he’ll play it to the hilt.

He’ll probably do a good job of it.
Like Josh, I've been aware of Comey since I watched his testimony in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee in 2007--and frankly, his actions at that time bought him far more leeway for a longer time than he probably deserved. While its really disappointing that Comey's asinine, ignorant view of digital security and encryption will probably be forgotten as well as his horrible October Surprise, he has one more chance to try to rectify this fucking mess.

If I'm Comey, I'm consulting with my attorneys, preparing my statements and story very carefully, and getting ready to drop the mother of all rhetorical bombs on some really odious people.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:31 AM on May 15, 2017 [50 favorites]


You need to separate normal Republican motives and Bannon-type motives if you want to understand this,

"The standard you walk past, is the standard you accept" (source: various Australian military persons). Trump has accepted a new set of Republican motives by walking past Bannon, sorry.
posted by Etrigan at 10:32 AM on May 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


This is behind a firewall, don't know if anyone can access it: Netanyahu Publishes Records of Trump Meeting to Prove He Backed Moving U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:35 AM on May 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


You need to separate normal Republican motives and Bannon-type motives

One and the same now. That ship sailed in July.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:35 AM on May 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


WaPo: The Daily 202: Loyalty is a one-way street for Donald Trump
The president has a congenital inability to take personal responsibility for his own mistakes. Throughout his career, he’s sought out scapegoats whenever situations get hairy. He’s doing it again amidst the continuing fallout from his decision to fire James Comey as FBI director.

Trump demands unquestioning loyalty from his subordinates, but kowtowing and paying fealty do not ensure that he’ll return the favor.

...

The administration’s head hunters have struggled for months to find well-qualified people for high-level posts because any past criticism of Trump is often disqualifying. Trump rejected Rex Tillerson’s first choice to be his deputy because he’d criticized Trump during the campaign. A top aide to Ben Carson was summarily fired and escorted out of the Housing and Urban Development headquarters by security in February after a Trump loyalist discovered a critical op-ed he had written last fall.

...

From a prescient BuzzFeed profile in April 2016: “A review of the billionaire's tumultuous, decades-long career — including interviews with former employees, aides, and confidantes — suggests that Trump's dedication to even his closest allies can wear thin, particularly at moments of professional crisis. Far from a tight-knit family of blood brothers, The Donald's inner circle has been purged and repopulated many times over the years. Devoted workaholics burn out and flame out. Longtime alliances end with lawsuits and tabloid sniping. Sometimes reconciliation follows, sometimes grudges endure — and rarely does Trump refuse to bury the hatchet when it's good for the bottom line.”
He's unbending to the point of being brittle.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:37 AM on May 15, 2017 [30 favorites]


The US is the wealthiest nation in the world, with the biggest economy, despite having about a fourth of the population of #2 China.

I'm not even sure you can talk about nations being wealthy anymore. All that wealth could very easily move offshore at a blink and a great deal of it already has. Are the off-shored corporate profits waiting for a tax amnesty to return really American wealth in any real sense?

Russia found out the hard way that very little of its wealth was in any way obligated to stay in Russia and instead raced out the country and ended up buying London property, English premier league football teams and hiding in foreign bank accounts.
posted by srboisvert at 10:38 AM on May 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


All three judges on this panel are Bill Clinton appointees. Some day there are going to be panels where all three judges are Donald Trump appointees. The sooner Democrats control the Senate, or Trump is encouraged to resign, the less frequently that nightmarish scenario will occur.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:38 AM on May 15, 2017 [38 favorites]


via Todd Ruger: Deputy AG Rod Rosenstein will lead an all-Senators briefing on the removal of former FBI Director James Comey Thursday at 2:30 p.m.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:43 AM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Foreign Policy: NATO Frantically Tries to Trump-Proof President’s First Visit

“It’s like they’re preparing to deal with a child — someone with a short attention span and mood who has no knowledge of NATO, no interest in in-depth policy issues, nothing,” said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity."


TIP FOR NATO: gold plate the outlet protectors and baby gates and he will think it is a sign of respect.
posted by srboisvert at 10:48 AM on May 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


James Comey: Bonfire of his Vanities?
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:52 AM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Top Candidates To Replace Comey At FBI Are Deeply Compromised

Dog bites man, Republicans are covering for treason.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:00 AM on May 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


I don't think it matters much if Comey is man of fierce independence and rectitude or just likes to play one on TV. Eventually we become what we pretend to be. Really "integrity" is just a commitment to actually being what you pretend to be...

So Comey will be a genuine hero if he tells the truth about Trump and saves the Republic, even if he does it to earn applause from the media or for whatever other flawed, human reason. I hope he can pull it off.

I've said it before, and it's no less true now... A lot depends on the character of James Comey.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:01 AM on May 15, 2017 [18 favorites]


Spicey Time was supposed to start at 1:30pm EDT. It's now 30 minutes late (and counting).

Links: CSPAN, Youtube
posted by Mister Fabulous at 11:03 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Spicey Time was supposed to start at 1:30pm EDT. It's now 30 minutes late (and counting).

He's busy nutting out the fine details of his Burger King endorsement deal.
posted by Talez at 11:07 AM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Maybe he's still driving the podium back from New Jersey....
posted by uosuaq at 11:08 AM on May 15, 2017 [31 favorites]


If Melissa McCarthy showed up instead, would anyone notice?
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:09 AM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


And can Sean Spicer do a better Sean Spicer than Melissa McCarthy? I think not.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:11 AM on May 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


I will consider it a real missed opportunity if no one does a briar patch skit featuring Spicer as Br'er Rabbit.
posted by Behemoth at 11:12 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Sean is speaking, only 45 minutes late. And starts with Homeland Security again.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:17 AM on May 15, 2017


Nice update on the Cyber
posted by ian1977 at 11:18 AM on May 15, 2017


This is like an email from my IT dept come to life.
posted by ian1977 at 11:20 AM on May 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


Chris Wallace: WH Rejected Invites To Discuss Comey Firing
"We want to begin by telling you who you’re not going to hear from, today - the White House


Chris Cuomo says no Republicans were willing to appear on CNN to defend Trump’s firing of Comey

posted by Room 641-A at 11:23 AM on May 15, 2017 [25 favorites]


"also there are free bananas in the kitchen"
posted by murphy slaw at 11:24 AM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Mod note: Friendly reminder that contextless one-liners about things you are experiencing while watching a video stream aren't really the ideal here. Add some context if you're gonna react so folks know what to, and consider not duplicating effort many times over if others are already doing so.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:24 AM on May 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


"I don't want to take up Mr. Spicer's time. Maybe one more question, is that ok Sean?" [real]

Sean: TAKE ALL THE TIME YOU WANT I DON'T MIND AT ALL! [fake]
posted by INFJ at 11:25 AM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


It does continue to surprise me how bad at the basics of the job Spicer is. He can't pronounce the words he uses, for fuck's sake (de-pray-vity?).
posted by prefpara at 11:32 AM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Does any rational person not suspect Mensch and Taylor are sources of calculated disinformation, most likely funded by russia and fed just enough little "true" things to set us up for the big fake news con?

FWIW, I think someone well-grounded in reality can believe sheer narcissism could explain their behavior.
posted by Coventry at 11:32 AM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


It does continue to surprise me how bad at the basics of the job Spicer is. He can't pronounce the words he uses, for fuck's sake (de-pray-vity?).

Well, apparently I've been pronouncing it wrong for 30+ years.
posted by zarq at 11:39 AM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Once again, Spicer will not deny that there are tapes and completely refuses to touch that topic in any way. This is sketchy as hell.
posted by zachlipton at 11:40 AM on May 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


Question came if Trump/WH will provide any tapes or recordings to the written requests of senators. Spicer still refuses to speak about this topic and wouldn't give the reporter a yay or nay.
posted by INFJ at 11:41 AM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]




The reporter is Hallie Jackson
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:46 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Video of Alexis Simendinger's try on the tapes
Video of Hallie Jackson's try on the tapes

(The answer to everything is a variation of "the president would have nothing further on that issue" if you want to save time and not watch.)
posted by zachlipton at 11:49 AM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


I really want the next Spicey lunch to be nothing but the entire press pool asking the exact same question about whether the WH is bugged.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:55 AM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


That press briefing was one big nothingburger. The President's position on something is represented by a tweet? The reporter is looking for a quote she can print that has a bit more depth and careful wording than one of his half-assed tweets.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 11:56 AM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


The President's position on something is represented by a tweet?

That's the joke.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:58 AM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


That Every press briefing was is one big nothingburger. The President's position on something is represented by a tweet? The reporter is looking for a quote she can print that has a bit more depth and careful wording than one of his half-assed tweets.

Ftfy.
posted by zrail at 11:59 AM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


This is sketchy as hell.

Repeatedly doing neither of those things is (ahem) unpresidented.


My guess would be some lawyer lit a fire under Trump, in a serious "this has concrete criminal ramifications you fucking imbecile!" sort of way. So they've gone totally silent on the matter so as not to make it worse (because they sure as hell can't make it better)
posted by INFJ at 11:59 AM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


> The reporter is looking for a quote she can print that has a bit more depth and careful wording than one of his half-assed tweets.

But why would "depth" and "careful wording" be associated with anything about the Trump presidency*? Half-assed tweet is the perfect encapsulation of our state of governance right now.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:00 PM on May 15, 2017


The Comey "Why aren't people on the left happy??" thing is like the classic sci-fi/horror computer that was given not-quite-enough humanity.

Hello Dave. I heard you don't like small talk with strangers, Dave. I have therefore removed everyone's vocal cords and ears. You never need to be anxious about small talk again.


Dave? Why are you crying, Dave? Did I not take care of your biggest fears? Are you not happy, Dave? I only want you to be happy. Your happiness is my only priority.



Dave. Should I remove your tear ducts, Dave?

posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 12:00 PM on May 15, 2017 [83 favorites]


So.....the new line is that the President knew it would be "detrimental to him" to fire Comey as it would lengthen or strengthen the Russian investigation? That's....one way of putting it, Spicey. Wtf.
posted by lazaruslong at 12:01 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


joseph conrad is fully awesome: The reporter is looking for a quote she can print that has a bit more depth and careful wording than one of his half-assed tweets.

As RedOrGreen wrote. Also, Given the recent transcripts (!!!) from recent interviews with Trump, looking for depth and careful wording is a fool's errand.

(Can we reflect on the fact that a number of outlets have stopped trying to understand the word salad from Trump and started quoted him verbatim, at length?)
posted by filthy light thief at 12:01 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


These press briefings are pointless other than to plot the daily debasement of Sean Spicer. They're not going to admit to tapes, much less turn them over without a congressional subpoena, and probably not even then. It's going to take a real investigation and slapping people with actual obstruction of justice charges and jail time to ever see those tapes. It won't happen until someone rolls over and admits to their existence, and that's not happening without charges.

What the press could do is act like a real cross examination, stop giving him open ended questions. Pin him down on exact facts and timelines, or make him evade and call him on the evasion, in unison, coordinated lines of questioning. They need to hire some accomplished litigators and give them White House credentials, sorry, but longtime hacks operating like everything is legit and normal playing footsie with Spicer's non-responses is not adequate.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:04 PM on May 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


My guess would be some lawyer lit a fire under Trump, in a serious "this has concrete criminal ramifications you fucking imbecile!" sort of way. So they've gone totally silent on the matter so as not to make it worse (because they sure as hell can't make it better)

Alternately, it was McConnell and Ryan telling them, "look, we don't actually care if you break the law, but every time you do it on national fucking television it makes us look really bad for not caring, and if you keep doing that we're gonna lose some elections."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:06 PM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


That press briefing was one big nothingburger

Yeah but it's good to see how peeved Spicer is getting about the constant questions about the "tapes" in La Maison Blanche. Like, he's somehow pissed that the press is asking questions about some nutbar thing the President tweeted to the entire world. Like it's the reporter's fault, or something. Every time he says that there's nothing left to be said that means: there are "tapes" of everything. Including pee "tapes".
posted by dis_integration at 12:06 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


The press briefings seem to have the primary purpose of letting us know what things the press are concerned about.
posted by Artw at 12:11 PM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


The New Yorker's Daily Cartoon has a Watergate theme.
posted by Surely This at 12:11 PM on May 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


The press briefings seem to have the primary purpose of letting us know what things the press are concerned about.

hey now, it also lets us know what is potentially damaging to the administration, i.e. everything they refuse to talk about

which will soon be everything?
posted by murphy slaw at 12:14 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Pelosi wants Rosenstein to brief the House too, not just the Senate, and says they will file a discharge petition on Wednesday to force a vote on an independent Russia commission. While I sincerely doubt that will succeed, forcing every member of the House to be on the record about where they stand on this is really important.
posted by zachlipton at 12:15 PM on May 15, 2017 [82 favorites]




file a discharge petition on Wednesday to force a vote on an independent Russia commission

does such a filing do an end-run around the Hastert Rule?
posted by murphy slaw at 12:17 PM on May 15, 2017


I just want to reiterate that there is no magic formula that will force Spicer to tell the truth or even to admit to not wanting to tell the truth.

They'll NO COMMENT their way through this presidential term if they have to and there's nothing the press can do about it. The pressure has to come from the people demanding answers and given the state of the Republican party members? They're just fine with NO COMMENT.
posted by lydhre at 12:18 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Yes. A discharge petition is a way to force a floor vote in the House.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:19 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


We don't have to have the White House's cooperation to get those answers, however. They can NO COMMENT all they like, but they can't stop the signal.
posted by Autumnheart at 12:20 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Remember how back during election season Trump failed at debate prep? And he won. His life experience is that he can go on being himself, whatever people say.
I'd think that would be to our advantage now: there is no way he will listen to staff/family telling him to worry about any issues, his real experience is that it didn't matter Clinton was smarter and better prepared than him, he won.
During the next few months (maybe just weeks) he'll incriminate himself more and more until it's impossible to ignore, even at Fox News. It's already happening.
posted by mumimor at 12:23 PM on May 15, 2017 [29 favorites]


It also bears remembering that Trump himself is incapable of no-commenting, even if his own credibility and that of his administration depends on it.
posted by Autumnheart at 12:23 PM on May 15, 2017 [31 favorites]


Could regular citizens chase congress critters around DC, demanding on video that they sign the petition?
posted by Coventry at 12:24 PM on May 15, 2017


As in, is it binding if a congress person signs a copy carried by said regular citizens?
posted by Coventry at 12:25 PM on May 15, 2017


Probably not without Congress/Trump signing an EO abolishing the First Amendment for being threatening meanies.
posted by Autumnheart at 12:26 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Could regular citizens chase congress critters around DC, demanding on video that they sign the petition?

As in, is it binding if a congress person signs a copy carried by said regular citizens?


I volunteer!
posted by aspersioncast at 12:27 PM on May 15, 2017


Besides any investigations at the top, maybe the FBI is also working its way up the chain, looking for lower-level people who will talk, possibly for immunity or reduced charges.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:29 PM on May 15, 2017


A discharge petition isn't a "petition" in the ordinary sense of the word - it's more of a loophole/emergency valve in parliamentary procedure to route around shitty leadership (i.e. Paul Ryan):
After a bill has been introduced and referred to committee for 30 legislative days or more, any Member may file a motion with the Clerk of the House to discharge the committee from further consideration of the bill. [...] A motion to discharge must only provide for the consideration of similar subject matter. In other words, a discharge motion cannot waive the germaneness rule. If a Member is successful in convincing a majority of the total membership of the House (218 Members) to sign a discharge petition, the petition becomes eligible for consideration on the second or fourth Monday of the month after a seven legislative day layover (except during the last six days of any session when the layover is waived). The discharge motion is debatable for twenty minutes, equally divided between the proponents and an opponent. If the motion to discharge a bill is adopted, it is in order to move that the House immediately consider the bill itself. If the motion to discharge a rule is adopted, the House turns immediately to consideration of the rule. [source]
posted by melissasaurus at 12:30 PM on May 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


This is a story linked above, but I think a more blunt article title helps:

Deadspin: Trump Won't Exercise For Fear Of Depleting His Body's Finite Store Of Energy

It's a longstanding belief.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:34 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


If I understand correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong) the risk with the discharge petition is acted on then you can't use a discharge petition for the same subject for the reminder of that session.

So, in theory a majority of Congress could sign the petition, it gets sent to the House and the GOP line up to vote it down, and then the only way another vote on the matter happens is if GOP leadership lets it happen. Which I suppose isn't much worse then the situation now, but it basically means you've got one shot at this to get an independent commission this session.
posted by papercrane at 12:35 PM on May 15, 2017


Well, as it stands we have no shot of getting an independent commission through the GOP controlled House, so any petitions/plans/ideas/attempts/wild hopes are more than welcome.
posted by lydhre at 12:38 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trump Won't Exercise For Fear Of Depleting His Body's Finite Store Of Energy

He doesn't exercise because he's lazy.

(Yes, yes, he golfs. But I notice he's always pictured driving/being driven in a cart.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 12:39 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


I'm pretty critical of the congressional democrats as a body, but I do not fear them popping off and taking bold action too soon.
posted by The Gaffer at 12:40 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


They'll NO COMMENT their way through this presidential term if they have to

I actually think they *want* to. In the same way the Republicans decided complete and total opposition to Obama was the right thing to do. It's the method acting of political theater. You talk and act the way people would expect you to act if your opposition is Satan himself.

The administration treats briefings and the press in general exactly the way you'd expect if the press was really the enemy, which it is to authoritarians like the administration.

During the next few months (maybe just weeks) he'll incriminate himself more and more until it's impossible to ignore, even at Fox News.

I would love to believe there is an appreciable number of Republicans that have enough principle to care if he is further incriminated, but I don't see the evidence. We started crossing line after line of self-incrimination during the campaign, and Republicans still elected him. It's not really clear whether there is any principle at all that's too far.
posted by wildblueyonder at 12:41 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Fusion: The Long, Lucrative Right-wing Grift Is Blowing Up in the World's Face
But the complete and inarguable disaster of the Bush administration—a failure of the conservative movement itself, one undeniable even to many consumers of the parallel conservative media—and his abrupt replacement by a black man, caused a national nervous breakdown among the people who’d been told, for many years, that conservatism could not fail, and that all Real Americans agreed with them.

Rather rapidly, two things happened: First, Republicans realized they’d radicalized their base to a point where nothing they did in power could satisfy their most fervent constituents. Then—in a much more consequential development—a large portion of the Republican Congressional caucus became people who themselves consume garbage conservative media, and nothing else.

That, broadly, explains the dysfunction of the Obama era, post-Tea Party freakout. Congressional Republicans went from people who were able to turn their bullshit-hose on their constituents, in order to rile them up, to people who pointed it directly at themselves, mouths open.

Now, we have a president whose media diet defines his worldview, interests, and priorities. He is not one of the men, like most of those Tea Party members of Congress, whose existing worldview determined his media diet—who sealed himself off from disagreeable media sources. He is, in fact, something far more dangerous: a confused old man who believes what the TV tells him.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:41 PM on May 15, 2017 [56 favorites]


I got spam today for Trump Care Quotes, which turns out to be an ACA portal with Make Healthcare Great Again stamped on it.
posted by theodolite at 12:42 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


He doesn't exercise because he's lazy.

(Yes, yes, he golfs.


The point of golf is to play less golf, so it's not really exercise.
posted by Etrigan at 12:43 PM on May 15, 2017 [33 favorites]


From the Politico article linked upthread about the backchannel way of supplying Trump with news/op-eds, etc.
He uses the internet minimally, other than tweeting and tracking his mentions, so what other news stories he sees can be more haphazard. Trump does receive a daily binder of news clippings put together by his communications team, but White House officials disagreed about how much he reads those. White House and former campaign aides have tried to make sure Trump’s media diet includes regular doses of praise and positive stories to keep his mood up — a tactic honed by staff during the campaign to keep him from tweeting angrily.
This is a fear that people who have survived abusive relationships will no doubt recognize. It's a way to deal with someone who is emotionally unstable and prone to (possibly dangerous) abusive or violent outbursts: Tread on eggshells. Act and speak carefully and avoid touching on certain subjects, lest you set them off.

Abusers act this way in part because it allows them to establish and maintain a certain level of control. Whether they do it consciously or unconsciously, it's in their best interest to keep you off-balance. That way, you won't have time to ponder how abnormal your life has become. When you have to worry constantly how a boss or loved one will react to a given situation, you survive by focusing all of your attention on not setting them off and making your life worse. Abuse 101.

The news from this administration has been fiercely triggering my PTSD for months. My personal anxiety level has been through the roof. One of the reasons for that is the way this administration has been gaslighting the country. How they have also careened from topic to topic, desperately attempting to distract the American public from their screwups, scandals and corruption. We don't expect our Presidents to make angry, petulant, vengeful outbursts. We do have an expectation that such immature behavior from our Chief Executive can get people killed. Many of us rightfully fear and worry about that. Those outbursts similarly throw us off balance and distract us from other problems close at hand. When we mix in this administration's blatant ignorance, arrogance and stupidity, that's likely to be a lethal combination if some sort of crisis hits.

This article is the most clear sign I've seen that his staff is trying desperately to cope with classic abuse tactics.
posted by zarq at 12:43 PM on May 15, 2017 [89 favorites]


I don't necessarily agree that Congressional Republicans bought into their own propaganda, so much that the Tea Party replaced previous seat-holders with propaganda-devouring members of their own audience.
posted by Autumnheart at 12:44 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Trump Won't Exercise For Fear Of Depleting His Body's Finite Store Of Energy

I wonder if he thinks Schwarzenegger is some kind of god to have lasted this long.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 12:44 PM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


> During the next few months (maybe just weeks) he'll incriminate himself more and more until it's impossible to ignore, even at Fox News.

Repetez s'il vous plait:

Republicans will not

Republicans will not

move against Trump

move against Trump

until or unless he impedes their agenda.

until or unless he impedes their agenda.

Morality, evidence, common sense has absolutely nothing to do with anything to them. Their only goal is to cut taxes for the rich, take basic services from the poor, and restrict voting access for minorities or potential Democratic voters. Until or unless Trump stops them from doing that, nothing will change their minds.
posted by Tevin at 12:45 PM on May 15, 2017 [26 favorites]


other than tweeting and tracking his mentions,

Wait, this pea-brained dipshit actually tracks his thousands upon thousands of mentions? I guess he's got nothin but time on his hands but still
posted by Existential Dread at 12:46 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


He doesn't believe anything, he just comes up with justifications after the fact.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 12:46 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Well it can be exercise if you walk the whole course and carry your own bag.

Tomorrow's briefing should have a least one question along the line of, "You have said the President has made his position clear regarding the tape. I am afraid I am not clear on his position. Could you please clarify?"
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:49 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Trump Won't Exercise For Fear Of Depleting His Body's Finite Store Of Energy

He doesn't exercise because he's lazy.

(Yes, yes, he golfs. But I notice he's always pictured driving/being driven in a cart.)


All true, but where some people might respond with a stony silence, mumbled something about walks, or straight out lied, he has a justification that he shares freely.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:50 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Schwarzenegger has been portraying superhuman characters for 40 years, so it wouldn't surprise me if Trump subconsciously does view him that way. Especially one as susceptible to media portrayal and public perception as Trump is.
posted by Autumnheart at 12:50 PM on May 15, 2017


I bet Trump is infuriating to golf with. I'm imagining a golfing, real-estate version of the Napoleon character from Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure.
posted by Autumnheart at 12:51 PM on May 15, 2017 [27 favorites]


I'm imagining a golfing, real-estate version of the Napoleon character from Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure.

But marginally less fluent in English.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:53 PM on May 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


Re: his finite store of energy

I'm guessing he doesn't avoid women, but he does deny them his essence.
posted by Twain Device at 12:54 PM on May 15, 2017 [25 favorites]


I'm imagining a golfing, real-estate version of the Napoleon character from Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure.

But marginally less fluent in English.


And with a more noticeable Napoleon complex, oddly enough.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:55 PM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


I'm guessing he doesn't avoid women, but he does deny them his essence.

Speaking on behalf of women: good.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:55 PM on May 15, 2017 [29 favorites]


Fusion: The Long, Lucrative Right-wing Grift Is Blowing Up in the World's Face

Note: the illustration to that article is a work of art
posted by mumimor at 12:56 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I'm really fucking sick of being gaslighted. I keep hoping some Republican will find some shred of moral decency or what remains of their spine, perhaps some tiny glimmer of patriotism. But then I just get furious at myself for hoping, because it feels like abuse victim thinking. "He'll change, he'll get better! It's just a stressful time right now! Someone will do the right thing!" Bullshit. They won't. This is who they are.

We tell abuse victims to get help, to leave. That doesn't feel like the right option here, but I'm not sure if that's not just me fooling myself again.
posted by yasaman at 12:57 PM on May 15, 2017 [26 favorites]


Republicans will not
move against Trump
until or unless he impedes their agenda.


- or until he prevents their reelection. And if Fox News opens the doors to reality, this becomes an issue
posted by mumimor at 12:58 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Reportedly, he cheats at golf. But he probably also lives in his own reality, where he doesn't cheat.
posted by zarq at 1:02 PM on May 15, 2017


Tomorrow's briefing should have a least one question along the line of, "You have said the President has made his position clear regarding the tape. I am afraid I am not clear on his position. Could you please clarify?"

Alright so I might be wrong because I'm running on sleep deprived brain here, but I think they did ask that today and Sean repeated the "The president has made his position clear."

We only mentioned it about twice here, but the briefing had 4 or 5 reporters ask about the tapes in some form or fashion.
posted by INFJ at 1:05 PM on May 15, 2017


You know what hit me just now? There's a perfect word for this rampant Republican willingness to cover for the actions of the president, even if it just means damning silence, in order to protect their group from lawful intervention:

Omerta.

I'm going to start using it regularly, if only to explicitly link the Republican party to the organized criminals that they most resemble.
posted by jammer at 1:06 PM on May 15, 2017 [31 favorites]


I just spent like an hour trying to figure out who to vote for in our primary tomorrow. If I was skeeved out by the concept of elected judges before, now I'm just irritated that there are so goddamn many of them and it takes forever to research.

(Also I went down a local politics rabbit hole and hooboy.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:07 PM on May 15, 2017 [12 favorites]



Fusion: The Long, Lucrative Right-wing Grift Is Blowing Up in the World's Face

Note: the illustration to that article is a work of art


I certainly felt some emotions upon seeing it, which is the best working definition of art that I've found!

The Signs Were Always There -
If you're surprised that the system suddenly seems broken, you don't know the system.
. With this event, some may just be becoming acquainted with an American reality where the structures of law enforcement have broken down and they feel like there's no choice but to accept it. But this America has always been here, and in plain sight. All these surprised people needed to do was believe us when they were warned.

How did, all of a sudden, so many other Americans come to learn these truths, ones that black and brown people have been trying to tell them about for what seems like forever? What people in that majority failed to realize is how institutional imbalance, racial or otherwise, makes any societal structure ripe for abuse.
The Tangled Story Behind Trump’s False Claims Of Voter Fraud
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:08 PM on May 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


OK, the real reason why impeachment won't happen is because once things get rrreally close for Trump, he'll simply threaten to start a nuclear war with China or France or whereever. He will be able to pull it off, because he is devoid of empathy, even for his family, and those close to him know that he is capable of it. This will give a new meaning to the term "nuclear option". (Actually, I think there is a 20% chance that this has already happened and that that's the real reason why the investigations aren't going anywhere.)
posted by sour cream at 1:09 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


lydhre: I just want to reiterate that there is no magic formula that will force Spicer to tell the truth or even to admit to not wanting to tell the truth.

But what if we call him by his true name? Then we will have power over him, right?
posted by filthy light thief at 1:18 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


I feel like I'm in bizarro world re: the Mensch-Taylor indictment thing. "Wait and see" sounds like a reasoned approach on the surface... but that's not how we should treat fake news. Should we have waited-and-seen with Pizzagate? Oh, fine, I can hear the objections now about the Pizzagate comparison. So we'll try something else. Should we have waited-and-seen with all that fake news crap about Clinton being indicted in New York or whatever during the campaign?

Just because the fake news is something we want to see happen doesn't mean it isn't damaging to humor it. There is literally no reason whatsoever to entertain Mensch's latest bullshit theories. That so many on the left are discussing it, tweeting about it, and so on is damaging to the public discourse. It's exactly what the right does with their bullshit fake news.

We should know better. Please know better.
posted by Justinian at 1:18 PM on May 15, 2017 [31 favorites]


Reportedly, he cheats at golf.

Cheetofinger.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:23 PM on May 15, 2017


It's this and the more elaborate dystopian fanfic variations of this sentiment that makes these threads frustrating and tedious to follow.

Where can the conversation go after "get used to it."? Who gains by discussing this administration only in terms of how ruthless and indestructible they ultimately are?

Taking a "the world is brutal and heartless and fucked and there's absolutely nothing anybody can do about it" stance might feel like you're being critical of something but ultimately you're only supporting/sustaining the image of absolute control and power that they crave.


This x 1000. I am getting so sick and tired of all the disaster porn and "oooohhh NUUUUUKES ARE GONNA HAPPEN" and "DISAPPEARANCES ARE GONNA HAPPEN" and "Get used to it!" It makes me want to quit this thread. I've already noped away from Daily Kos because of this. I'd hate to have to quit the MeFi politics threads, because they keep me informed, but if I have to read one more disaster porn scenario I just might. Seriously, can we quit it with the dystopian fanfic? There's plenty of places to post actual fanfic if you want to write it.

If the Civil Rights marchers had sung "We Shall Be Overcome" instead of "We Shall Overcome," we'd be worse off. And I want to repost Timothy Snyder's excellent article on keeping democracy alive: point one is "Do not obey in advance."
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:24 PM on May 15, 2017 [90 favorites]


Their only goal is to cut taxes for the rich, take basic services from the poor, and restrict voting access for minorities or potential Democratic voters. Until or unless Trump stops them from doing that, nothing will change their minds.

But surely President Pence could do all that with far greater competence?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:25 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Fusion: The Long, Lucrative Right-wing Grift Is Blowing Up in the World's Face

Note: the illustration to that article is a work of art


OK that whole article is a work of art. I'm just finding excuses to repost it again and again to make sure everyone reads it. Every sentence in it makes me happy-sad. Read it, if you can find the time
posted by mumimor at 1:26 PM on May 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


I'm guessing he doesn't avoid women, but he does deny them his essence.

But apparently he's willing to sap the Russians' precious impurified bodily fluids
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:27 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


ZeusHumms: The Long, Lucrative Right-wing Grift Is Blowing Up in the World's Face

Add another grifter to that pile: How Billionaire Investor Carl Icahn Has Unprecedented Access To Trump (NPR, May 15, 2017)
President Trump named Icahn as an unpaid special adviser on regulatory changes. But no one has defined what a special adviser is, or how much power Trump has given to his longtime rival and friend.
...
Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren and several other Democratic senators are calling on EPA, the SEC and one other agency to investigate Icahn for insider trading and market manipulation. Public Citizen says Icahn should really register as a lobbyist even though, as Rob Weismann, the watchdog group's president, points out...

ROBERT WEISSMAN: It's not that he's on the outside buying influence. He's on the inside.

OVERBY: So has anyone else in recent American history had this combination of access to the president, sweeping portfolio, and freedom from federal ethics laws?

WEISSMAN: It is just extraordinary. And no, I cannot think of anything like it.
His grinning mug says "A lot of people die fighting tyranny. The least I can do is vote against it."

Sure, you're a billionaire and you can vote against tyranny, or support it and reap the rewards.

Though let's be honest - he's probably talking about the terrible tyranny of "excessive regulations" that hurt companies like his Texas oil refinery. Oh, boo hoo.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:29 PM on May 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


Justinian, It's hope. You can't really blame anyone for hoping that it's true.

Just take this thread as an example. There's a lot of "GOP won't impeach him ever" rhetoric going on. It's very disheartening, and metafilter isn't the only place it's happening.

Then you have this disreputable-woman and a former-Clinton-aide-nobody-photographer doling out hope. It might be fake news, but if it's fake news you have to have hope in to make it through your day - I think that's ok. Especially when the message that comes along with it is "wait and see."
posted by INFJ at 1:30 PM on May 15, 2017


But what if we call him by his true name? Then we will have power over him, right?

Trumplethinskin?
posted by Behemoth at 1:30 PM on May 15, 2017 [21 favorites]


Then you have this disreputable-woman and a former-Clinton-aide-nobody-photographer doling out hope. It might be fake news, but if it's fake news you have to have hope in to make it through your day - I think that's ok. Especially when the message that comes along with it is "wait and see."

This is one issue on which bothsidesism is warranted, I think. The garbage peddled by Mensch differs from Alex Jones only minimally. A FISA court issuing a sealed indictment is equally garbage to "Obama is a demon surrounded by flies at all times."
posted by Existential Dread at 1:40 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trumplethinskin?

Excellent!

I've been thinking 'Trumpleputinskin', and somebody on Reddit beat me to it.
posted by jamjam at 1:40 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


It might be fake news, but if it's fake news you have to have hope in to make it through your day - I think that's ok.

No one's saying you have to believe the people saying "the GOP will never impeach," that's a prediction of future events and maybe it won't be true. But that's a very different thing than "I choose to believe this thing that I know in my heart is probably not real, peddled by someone with major credibility issues, because I don't know how to cope with reality otherwise." That impulse is arguably part of the mess we're in right now.
posted by chrominance at 1:41 PM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


These press briefings are pointless other than to plot the daily debasement of Sean Spicer.

I'm ... okay with that. Though I probably shouldn't be.
posted by Slothrup at 1:42 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


I don't understand why people like Sean Spicer don't quit. They have skills, they could get other professional-level jobs. Why do they stay, propping up Trump? Do they honestly believe in him? Do they think having their name attached to him will help their future careers?
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:46 PM on May 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


Mixed news on refugee resettlement and "enhanced vetting"

With Travel Ban On Hold, Where Do Things Stand With Enhanced Vetting? (NPR, May 15, 2017) -- President Trump's controversial travel ban is back in federal court on Monday. The ban was supposed to create time and space to allow for more careful scrutiny of people visiting the U.S.
the idea was the government would use this 90-day pause in travel to figure out what kind of information it needed to get from those foreign governments to determine who is safe to allow into the United States, who might pose a security threat.

And in theory, that work could have been going on even while the travel ban was on hold. If so, they'd be two-thirds the way done by now. But the administration complains that the Hawaii court order was so sweeping, even the vetting work has ground to a halt. Acting Solicitor General Jeffrey Wall explained that to a different appeals court last week.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

JEFFREY WALL: We have complied by that injunction. We've put our pens down. We haven't done any work on it. So the 90-day period, in our view, has not been able to run at all.
...
Since the order was put on hold, refugee resettlements have continued, albeit at a slower pace, 800 or 900 a week. If that pace were to continue through September, which is the end of the government's fiscal year, we would see a total this year of around 60,000 or 65,000 refugees.

That's above the ceiling of 50,000 that Trump wanted to set, but it's well below the 110,000 level that former President Obama wanted. Now, the government spending bill that Trump signed a couple weeks ago did preserve level funding for refugee resettlement at about $1.2 billion for the next five months.
Still, Trump's cuts to the refugee program lead to hundreds of layoffs (Voice of America, Last Updated: April 27, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 1:46 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Healthcare, Abortion, and Republican Bad Faith
Even in principle, “women should only be able get abortions for reasons I find acceptable” is really bad — the state should not compel a woman to take on the serious health, emotional, time, and financial commitments of childbirth and childbearing against her will, and at least for pre-viabilty abortions “I don’t want to have a child now” is a plenty good enough reason. But even if you like the idea in principle, regulations on abortion don’t advance this goal in any way and most don’t even pretend to. Waiting periods or burdensome clinic regulations don’t prevent women from getting abortions for “bad” reasons; they just make it more difficult or impossible for some classes of women to obtain abortions for any reason. [...]

As Chait says, the same is true for the appalling deserving/undeserving sick arguments now being made by Republicans to justify stripping health insurance from tens of millions of people. Even in theory, saying that (non-rich) people should be denied care because they made choices that may have contributed to their medical problems is grossly immoral. But, in addition, TrumpCare does not actually in any way provide or deny coverage based on whether individuals are “responsible” for their medical problems: [...]

And, of course, to further to compound the bad faith the same faction making these morally and empirically bankrupt arguments have been calling Michelle Obama a fascist for wanting children to have healthier food options and encouraging them to exercise — thankfully that national nightmare is over! — and the president who would sign the AHCA openly boasts about not exercising and subsisting mostly on junk food. We really are dealing with incredibly horrible people here.

posted by tonycpsu at 1:52 PM on May 15, 2017 [45 favorites]


When President Trump’s bodyguard revealed Jim Mattis’s private cellphone number
We got a call Friday from a reader named Paul Redmond that The Post had accidentally published Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis’s private cell phone number.

A story about President Trump’s bodyguard Keith Schiller, Redmond said, was accompanied by a photograph of the two of them walking on White House grounds. The bodyguard was holding a stack of papers, and, according to the caller, on the outside of those papers was a yellow sticky note that said “Jim, Mad Dog, Mattis” and had a phone number.

This of course sounds impossible. Way more care than that is taken around the president, right? The Secret Service is good at secrecy, generally. So I thanked the guy for the call and dubiously pulled up the photo in question. With the monitor turned 90 degrees and the photo blown up, indeed, I could make out a number and what might be “Jim, Mad Dog, Mattis,” if you have better eyesight than mine even when I squint.

I called. I got the voice mail. It was him.

Yes, of course, the president’s bodyguard — the guy famous for punching someone outside of Trump Tower, the guy who according to the story has the president’s complete trust — is employing the yellow sticky note system of information security.
posted by zachlipton at 1:52 PM on May 15, 2017 [79 favorites]


Trumpleshitskin
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:54 PM on May 15, 2017


I don't understand why people like Sean Spicer don't quit

It's the best job in Washington, DC that he could have. Plus he has National exposure. Maybe he still clings to the idea that WH press spokesman is a coveted, prestigious job.

If he quits, he might be able to get a job for CNN as a commentator/talking head but I don't know how lucrative that is or how long it would last. He is not particularly insightful or well-spoken.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:54 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]




Trump Won't Exercise For Fear Of Depleting His Body's Finite Store Of Energy

Maybe this explains his hatred of stairs/embrace of escalators?
posted by donatella at 1:55 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Who is this bodyguard guy. Is that the sum of his qualifications, bodyguard?
posted by angrycat at 1:55 PM on May 15, 2017


The big story here is that Keith Schiller doesn't know the difference between commas and quotation marks.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:55 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]




Trying to think of a job where failing to even marginally sell blatant lies is a skill.
posted by Artw at 1:56 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Yeah, I'm really fucking sick of being gaslighted. I keep hoping some Republican will find some shred of moral decency or what remains of their spine, perhaps some tiny glimmer of patriotism.

I was talking to my Mom this weekend (what with it being Mother's Day and the fact that I call her every week even when its not Mother's Day) and we were comparing notes about how we're weathering Trumperdämmerung. This last week, she and my father had some friends stay with them who are far right Republicans. These folks (let's call them the Smiths) were #nevertrump during the campaign but are now #evertrump after voting for him. The Smiths have been dear friends of the mighty clan Michaels but my mom said she and my pops felt like they were walking on eggshells the whole week. My parents are like me and I imagine they were both biting their tongues so hard the whole week that they (to pull out my mom's favorite quote) had to learn to love the taste of blood.

My parents are in their 70's and have known the Smiths for 50 years. They really don't want to end a friendship but at the same time, my mom feels like she can't respect them anymore. No, that's not strong enough. My mom doesn't respect them anymore. I shared with her the phrase "dignity wraiths" (that I learned here, thank you Mefi!) and we spoke a little about the gaslighting involved in the whole "we thought you Democrats didn't like Comey" (I shared the metaphor I read here about how you might not like lentils in your soup but that doesn't mean you're going to be very happy if they're replaced by feces - thank you Mefi and whichever one of you came up with that because you made my mom laugh, which is a good thing). The Smiths went from "Trump is a nightmare" to "Trump is finally MAGA" in about twelve months time. Now they're so deep in it for Trump that there's no going back.

My Mom reports that many of her lifelong Republican friends - white, 70+ Connecticut middle and upper class suburbanites - are all in for Trump now. Trump stands in opposition to everything these people have claimed to hold dear for the decades my parents have known them, but he's their guy (and a couple claim God put him there because apparently God is Charles Manson) and they can't bring themselves to believe that he's done any of the things he's done. That's where the loss of respect comes in - and how can you ever respect somebody again once they've old themselves out to Trump? How can you ever respect yourself again if you admit he's a criminal and a conman and just an abomination of a human being?

So she thinks her friends are a lost cause unless something happens that gives them an excuse to peal away from him without admitting their complicity/complacency. "Which is to say," she said sadly, "he's going to have to do something that's really, really awful before they'll back off."

Anyhow, Trump has made my parents' friends crazy and awful which in turn has made my mom sad and that's just another thing to add to the litany of reasons I hate him.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:56 PM on May 15, 2017 [90 favorites]


Do they think having their name attached to him will help their future careers?

Spicey is Navy, so he's got the possibility of some highly renumerative do-nothing boardroom job in exchange for recommending spending on some n+1 weapons platform.

Or similar from Koch brothers.

Or wing nut welfare fox news job like Chaffetz.

Or more old-fashioned graft, if he was actually tweeting bitcoin handshaking stuff.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:57 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


"wait and see."

Well that's a problem right there. Because I don't want people to wait and see. I want them to call, march, research, write, donate, and organize.

Even if there really are sealed indictments out there (and I don't find it totally implausible), we have work to do preparing the ground to make a conviction politically possible.

"Wait and see" is a paralyzing position to take. If you wanted to make people sit on their asses instead of marching in the streets, that would be one way to do it. Tell them, "Wait and see." For that reason if nothing else, I hope no one is paying too much serious attention to Mensch et al.

Even if there are grown ups in the government putting the pieces together as we speak, they need our help. We need to be doing the work of calling our reps, writing the newspapers, joining the March for Truth, etc, so that when the evidence does come out it is understood and accepted by the public and acted upon appropriately by Congress.

Mensch is not helping in that work. So even if you think she's reliable (and I don't), you're probably better off ignoring her.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:58 PM on May 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


CNN; Clinton to launch 'resistance' PAC
Hillary Clinton, reentering the political fray months after her 2016 campaign loss, will soon launch a political organization aimed at funding "resistance" groups that are standing up to President Donald Trump, sources with knowledge of the plans tell CNN.
Clinton, according to the sources, is currently working with former aides and donors to build an organization that will look to fund and invest in groups that have impressed her since her 2016 election loss.


Already journalists are shitting on her, talking about her as though she is going to run a doomed campaign in 2020 and lose the Presidency again. I would like to think she is doing exactly what she says-- using her name and connections to fund resistance groups. Maybe I'm just hopelessly naive.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:00 PM on May 15, 2017 [48 favorites]


I just got the new PAC email campaign. It was pretty inoffensive but you know $hillary amirite ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by soren_lorensen at 2:03 PM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Journalists shitting on a member of the Clinton family.

Now I've seen everything.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:03 PM on May 15, 2017 [24 favorites]


The Schiller / Mattis photo (WaPo have changed it in their article, but it's still up).
posted by AwkwardPause at 2:05 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump as the First Deal-Maker-In-Chief: Promise and Perils of the Model
Trump’s model of executive governance through deal-making suggests that he may not be able to serve as a fully functional president. His governing style may also render him especially prone to intolerable forms of corruption.

President Trump, desperate dealmaker
Trump’s desperation for any kind of deal is problematic when applied to domestic policy. It is catastrophic when bargaining internationally.
...
So, just to sum up: The president of the United States is so desperate to cut deals that it appears he is willing to make far more concessions than he should. And, unfortunately, it would appear that Ambassador Haley is correct: He isn’t talking to very many people before inking these agreements. The man of action is acting in ways that contravene the national interest.

posted by T.D. Strange at 2:06 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


peddled by someone with major credibility issues

Hey, I'm not saying everyone should hang all their hopes on her word. My argument is that she is providing hope and some people need that right now. If you don't need her hope, all the more power to you.

I am happy to believe a busted watch is right twice a day.

(I also feel compelled to note at this point that my hopes here are pinned not on Mensch, but on Claude Taylor. He's the one I believe. He seems to have integrity. If the broken watch happens to agree with him, that's all fine and good in my book. I don't think that agreeing with broken watches makes you broken too)
posted by INFJ at 2:07 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Exhibit A:

Commentary: It Takes a Political Pac; Hillary's back and more irrelevant than ever.
Hillary Clinton will soon be launching a political organization aimed at opposing the Trump administration. The group, “Onward Together,” intends to connect liberal donors to various anti-Trump organizations and support congressional candidates in 2018. Brandishing her Ph.D. in tone deafness, Clinton told CNN’s Christiane Amanpour earlier in the week, “I’m now back to being an activist citizen and part of the resistance.” So, like any other activist citizen, she and her former campaign finance director (who’s also the former chief development officer at the Clinton Foundation) are hitting up their wealthy contacts once again.

This is what the Clintons do. They take political trends and suffocate them by building self-serving organizations around them. They dined out on globalism for a decade, helping to sour Americans on the concept. Once their work was done there, Hillary rejected the Trans-Pacific Partnership and went in search of the next liberal craze to muscle in on. She’s found it in “the resistance” to Trump. Just as Barack Obama gave Hillary a job after defeating her, Trump, in his victory, has made sure that she’ll have something to do for the next few years. Chances are that with the Clintons involved, the resistance is in for a tough time. But Hillary’s new group will keep the Clinton brand alive at the nexus of money and politics, and that’s the important thing.
It concludes that she will be a drag on the Democratic Party because they need to appeal to the (W)WC and she "bragged" about putting coal miners out of work.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:07 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador

Of course he did. Man, can't even be bothered to use a dead drop or a cut out.
posted by Artw at 2:08 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said that Trump’s decision to do so risks cooperation from an ally that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State. After Trump’s meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and National Security Agency.

... hooboy.

And here I sit with my mandated yearly training on operational & informational security...
posted by suelac at 2:08 PM on May 15, 2017 [56 favorites]


JEFFREY WALL: We have complied by that injunction. We've put our pens down. We haven't done any work on it. So the 90-day period, in our view, has not been able to run at all.

Oh jesus wept. The order was aimed at eliminating entry to the country by people from certain countries. The injunction was against you restricting entry by people from those countries, not against you actually doing some fucking work on what you claim is the problem. I note the EO also said the purpose was "to protect citizens from terrorist attacks" - did you stop doing any work on that as well, once the injunction was in place?
posted by nubs at 2:09 PM on May 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador

but her emails
posted by entropicamericana at 2:10 PM on May 15, 2017 [70 favorites]


surely this?...
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 2:10 PM on May 15, 2017 [19 favorites]


But officials expressed concern with Trump’s handling of sensitive information as well as his grasp of the potential consequences.

22 Republicans to impeach, right?
posted by Room 641-A at 2:11 PM on May 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


Am I right in saying that the President has the legal authority to reveal classified information to anyone? So this will just be a political scandal rather than a legal issue.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:11 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


I don't understand why people like Sean Spicer don't quit

He's climbed too high up the tree to jump out, and climbing down backwards is hard.
posted by Too-Ticky at 2:12 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Am I right in saying that the President has the legal authority to reveal classified information to anyone?

You're so right that it even says so in the quoted text ;)
posted by diogenes at 2:12 PM on May 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


surely this?...

Will continue to add fuel to the fire, which we all hope will reach the level of being able to melt steel beams bring the walls down on this President?
posted by nubs at 2:12 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Of course, the people who shared that information with us in the first place have the legal authority to tell us to pound sand the next time we ask for help and promise that data shared with us won't be piped directly to Russia.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:14 PM on May 15, 2017 [24 favorites]


Exhibit A:

Commentary:


The media will never give up Clinton rules, and will assuredly fall back into their new favorite trope of Hilary: Worst Candidate Ever Who Won't Admit She Lost, but Commentary is Norman Podhoretz' neocon and rightwing Israeli magazine. Of course they're going to be there to shit on Clinton rather than talk about anything the actual President is doing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:14 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


I think this is the heave. The stuff about ISIS and laptops doesn't have to mean jack shit. It means the knives are out now. Please, let it be the heave.
posted by stonepharisee at 2:17 PM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


If the Russians had got this kind of information by hacking Hillary Clinton's private email server, she would have been prosecuted. Trump is able to just verbally bring it up unprompted in a jovial Russian-press-only Oval Office meeting and his supporters will defend him to the end.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:18 PM on May 15, 2017 [87 favorites]


Lavrov’s reaction to the Trump disclosures was muted

Well, Flynn must have already told them
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:20 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


I find this bit of the article most fascinating:
In his meeting with Lavrov, Trump seemed to be boasting about his inside knowledge of the looming threat. “I get great intel. I have people brief me on great intel every day,” Trump said, according to an official with knowledge of the exchange.
Forget, for a moment, the absurdity of the President bragging about his intelligence briefings to Russian officials; there aren't a lot of officials "with knowledge of the exchange" when it comes to what Trump said to Lavrov. That's not general information from someone who was aware that intelligence officials were trying to cleanup the mess; this is very specific information about their conversation.
posted by zachlipton at 2:20 PM on May 15, 2017 [45 favorites]


Every single goddamn day I think I can't be shocked anymore and then the Orange One does something to prove me so very wrong.
posted by marshmallow peep at 2:20 PM on May 15, 2017 [24 favorites]


Honestly my mind is kind of blown that after all the smoke and mirrors, there was someone allowed into that Oval Office meeting who was competent enough to realize that what Trump revealed was wrong and also moral enough to do something about it.

Unless the Russians leaked this themselves. Ugh they probably did.
posted by acidic at 2:23 PM on May 15, 2017 [39 favorites]


My argument is that she is providing hope and some people need that right now. If you don't need her hope, all the more power to you.

Right wingers could have made exactly the same argument for their fake news, with exactly the same basis. That their fake news is more widespread makes it a difference in scale and not in kind.

You say "providing hope", I say "contributing to the new atmosphere where facts and reality don't matter, all that matters is how we feel about it in our hearts". If we no longer care about reality then we lose a lot of credibility on climate change, vaccination, all kinds of stuff.
posted by Justinian at 2:23 PM on May 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


In other Trumpian-but-not-from-Trump news: Flooded with thoughtful net neutrality comments, FCC highlights “mean tweets” (Ars Technica, May 15, 2017 -- URL: "most- fcc- commenters- favor-
net- neutrality- but- you- wouldnt- know- it- from- ajit- pai" [breaks added to prevent overly long line of text])
While Pai hasn't highlighted any pro-net neutrality arguments from Internet companies or individuals who have submitted comments to the FCC, he did take the time to make a video in which he "reads mean tweets" directed at him. The FCC promoted this video on its official Twitter account today.
Oh, FFS ... you're not a late night talk show, you're the fooking government, grow the fook up.

With that, something more positive from Ars Technica today: Y Combinator head who pushes basic income is reportedly running for office -- Sam Altman, 32, founded Loopt, sold it for $43M. He's been head of YC since 2014
According to San Francisco Chronicle columnist Willie Brown, Altman recently came to him for political advice. Brown served as mayor of San Francisco for eight years and is a veteran of state politics.
...
In October 2016, Altman was quoted in the New Yorker as saying that when artificial intelligence reshapes the economy, "we’re going to have unlimited wealth and a huge amount of job displacement, so basic income really makes sense. Plus, the stipend will free up that one person in a million who can create the next Apple."
Oddly, the citation for Altman thinking of running for office indicates he's thinking about running for Governor of California, but is Willie Brown pushing Altman to not run in what is already a crowded field of declared and potential candidates.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:23 PM on May 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


One thing for sure: the big scandal here is going to be that someone leaked this conversation to the media. The media, which includes the Russian state-run TASS agency, which had a photographer present in the room when the conversation took place. That media.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:23 PM on May 15, 2017 [23 favorites]


To be clear, was this whole snafu intentionally disclosed (I assume that would not have been a public thing) or was it leaked?

Ahahahahasobsobsob.

Unfortunately I'm going to guess that the fallout from this will be constrained by the fact that Trump supporters outside of the national security establishment may have a kneejerk "nbd" to someone just naming a city - it's hard to understand without having been in that position just how big a deal one city name could be (or so I'd guess...I'm certainly not in that position either.)
posted by R a c h e l at 2:25 PM on May 15, 2017


Well, the Russians were definitely there. And if some prescient soul suggested to you five years ago that the Russians might have the means, through a casual leak, to topple to president of the US, you would not have taken that person seriously.
posted by stonepharisee at 2:25 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


If we're going to treat fiction as fact just because it's hopeful, I have a 7/8-volume documentary series I can recommend about the efforts of wizards in defeating evil tyrants.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 2:26 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


“It is all kind of shocking,” said a former senior U.S. official close to current administration officials.

Scrolls down three lines. Video thumbnail of Comey.

Mm.

So: 45 decides to fuck over FBI. Then fucks over allied intelligence. He really is too stupid to survive.
posted by Devonian at 2:26 PM on May 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


This is the new reality, get used to it.

Only someone either lost to despair or wallowing in privilege can say this. Read bardophile's amazing comment about Pakistan above.

You can get used to it if you're all washed out and give up and his waiting to submit, or you can get used to it if you will personally be alright because you're white or rich or have dual citizenship or some such. But the majority of us have not got the damn luxury of "getting used to" a condition of creeping fascism. The scenario you paint of impeachment being impossible because Trump's supporters would ultimately resist the rule of law with violence is absurd. Conceding it as inevitable (and then assuming they'd command the state's entire apparatus of violence) is absurd. Snap out of it, there's serious work to do. Or take a break and recharge your batteries. Or enjoy your freedom from real existential fear that has been felt continuously by communities of color and the poor and the incarcerated and majority sexual and gender-identified going back to at least 1492 on these here American shores, and throughout human history.

Sorry I seem to be socializing in pep talks today. I give them continuously to myself. America wasn't a shining utopia in October, and I'm sorry, but this isn't the first crisis of authoritarianism many American communities have faced. We have resources and power. We are the majority. We can make ourselves ungovernable and bring down the economy and clog the streets and refuse to be afraid.

Most of us have no immediate reason to fear internment camps or death squads or any of the daily horror bardophile just described. We must stand up for those who do.

Up against it, wouldn't most of us willingly face risks (maybe not the kind bardoohike describes, but say arrest or jail time?) to oppose the destruction of the rule of law in our various countries, the loss of a future for our children, or the abuse of vulnerable populations? I'd like to believe I'd go to jail before I'd give up resisting a fascist regime and retreat to my own white male upper middle class privilege. And I *think* (and want to believe) I would be brave enough to risk facing violence, although that's a high bar and not one we can expect for anyone but ourselves and those who swear that commitment. And even then, it's a matter of inner strength we never know we have (or not) until it's tested.

But have you ever thought "I wonder if I would be willing to die for my values and my family and my country?" I know I have and the answer I tell myself is yes. Because so many people I admire deeply -- including some I know -- have answered that question affirmatively with their bodies on the line (and this includes veterans regardless of what I thought about their cause, it's the principle of sacrifice that is my point).

Fascists can't win if their would-be subjects don't fear them. So don't fear them. Or fear them but dig down and find your guts.

I realize it blows off anxiety to share "I gives up we are doomzed and you foolish idealist should realize it and stop denying it's all over." But we have always been at war, citizen. Welcome to the front lines.

La Luta fucking Continua.
posted by spitbull at 2:26 PM on May 15, 2017 [83 favorites]


For a little while there, I thought we were going to get through a weekday without anything bonkers happening. (With "bonkers" being defined as above the daily moving average of Trump-related craziness.)
posted by diogenes at 2:27 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


re: that WaPo piece:

Hey, fuckwads. That flag that says "Paratus" there on the right in that picture?
That's the Coast Guard flag.
Get your gross selves away from it. You're not fit to be in the same picture with that flag. (Or any other flag of any American service, for that matter.) Especially not President Treason there.

You're goddamn right I'm taking that part personal.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:28 PM on May 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Every single goddamn day I think I can't be shocked anymore and then the Orange One does something to prove me so very wrong.

Do you know this particular instance-- a befuddled old man giving classified information provided by a US partner to the Russians-- makes me sad. Sad rather than shocked because this once powerful nation is in the feeble hands of a doddering old grandpa who probably has no idea of the damage he is causing.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:30 PM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


He's been trying to send classified secret documents to the Kremlin, but all they're getting is "C:\My Documents\Donald\TOPSECRET.doc"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:31 PM on May 15, 2017 [45 favorites]


Hard pass on Sam Altman getting anywhere near the government. I think he legitimately wants to do the right thing, but the absolute last thing we need is the head of YC running the state.
posted by zachlipton at 2:31 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


I mean "minority" sexuality and gender-identified, not "majority," above.
posted by spitbull at 2:32 PM on May 15, 2017


I don't understand why people like Sean Spicer don't quit

I am in bullshit stepped in so far that should I wade no more,
Returning were as tedious as go o’er.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:33 PM on May 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


Hard pass on Sam Altman getting anywhere near the government. I think he legitimately wants to do the right thing, but the absolute last thing we need is the head of YC running the state.

But if we get Paul Graham elected, he'll rewrite all the laws in Common Lisp!

posted by dis_integration at 2:34 PM on May 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Maybe he's going to ask Russia for his ISIS plan.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:35 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


But if we get Paul Graham elected, he'll rewrite all the laws in Common Lisp!

I'm not sure if the USC will be more or less confusing when it becomes just a book full of parenthesis.
posted by Talez at 2:37 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


BUTTER EMAILS

Ingredients:

1 lb butter
4 cups Hillary’s emails, finely shredded
8 tablespoons granulated sugar
4 tablespoons vanilla
1/8 teaspoon almond extract
4 cups flour
powdered sugar

Instructions:

Chop emails very fine. Set aside.
Cream butter and sugar until light and fluffy.
Add vanilla.
Add flour and emails alternately. You may have to mix by using your hands to really get it all mixed together well.
Roll into small balls, approximately 1-inch.
Place on cookie sheet, ungreased.
Bake at 250 degrees for 45 minutes.
Remove cookies from oven, allow to cool for about one minute.
Roll in powdered sugar and place on waxed paper to cool.

(and because I hate plagiarism, here is the recipe I used as a base, not that it matters)
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 2:38 PM on May 15, 2017 [52 favorites]


Unless the Russians leaked this themselves. Ugh they probably did.

It's win-win for them.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:40 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


@ Donald Trump: Crooked Hillary Clinton and her team "were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information." Not fit! 7:12 AM - 6 Jul 2016

@Paul Ryan:
It's simple: Individuals who are ‘extremely careless’ w/ classified info should be denied further access to it. 7:36 PM - 7 Jul 2016
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:41 PM on May 15, 2017 [102 favorites]


He became President today.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:42 PM on May 15, 2017 [30 favorites]


If we are correct that this is a Russian leak, then I wonder how it will interact with the Syrian story of earlier today. The crematorium and prison conditions, I suspect, are old news, but convenient today. For now, the Russian leak story is on WaPo, but NYT is reading Republican tea-leaves and the Grauniad is Syria. That might switch over the next few hours?
posted by stonepharisee at 2:42 PM on May 15, 2017


Can't wait for the endless stream of Republicans on their Helpless Shrug Tour of the week to tell us it's Twitler's prerogative to do stuff like this and there's nothing they can do about it because "we" have to support "our" president.

Way to get Comey off the front page, huh?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:43 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Here's a cheerful thought: It's only Monday. I'm beginning to realize that these golfing weekends not only give Trump a bit of a reprieve, it gives the rest of us a reprieve as well.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:43 PM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]




BuzzFeed has the story too
Two US officials who were briefed about Trump’s disclosures last week confirmed to BuzzFeed News the veracity of the Post report, with one official noting that “it’s far worse than what has already been reported.”

One of the officials said the Senate Intelligence Committee was also briefed on Trump’s disclosures.
posted by zachlipton at 2:46 PM on May 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


The officials declined to identify the ally, but said it is one that has previously voiced frustration with Washington’s inability to safeguard sensitive information related to Iraq and Syria.

“If that partner learned we’d given this to Russia without their knowledge or asking first that is a blow to that relationship,” the U.S. official said.


boy it's a good thing that partner can't read the Washington Post! paywalls are good for something after all.

no but I do understand that one that has previously voiced frustration with Washington’s... must apply to a whole lot of partners and how are they to know from these articles if it was their information that was passed around or someone else's? that will keep them from worrying about it, for sure.

(seriously though, can this U.S. official not actually contact this ally's own officials because it would be exposing classified information to let them know that we gave away their secrets? so he or she is just doing a courtesy notification through WaPo channels?)
posted by queenofbithynia at 2:46 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Classified information, if you think about it, why? People don't ask that question, but why is there classified information?
posted by diogenes at 2:47 PM on May 15, 2017 [22 favorites]


BUTTER EMAILS

You forgot the crucial last step! Some people skip it but it makes all the difference:

After butter emails are cooled, finely chop 1c additional Hillary's emails, then discard.
posted by contraption at 2:47 PM on May 15, 2017 [28 favorites]


I wasn't joking when I've been saying he gave them the nuke codes.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:48 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


If we no longer care about reality then we lose a lot of credibility on climate change, vaccination, all kinds of stuff.

If we need hard concrete proof of everything before we believe it/pin our hopes on it, there's a lot of science that's going to get thrown into the Fake News/Science pile.

I don't disagree we should be cautious. I don't think it's Fake News. Fake News is "Climate Change Isn't Real despite ALL EVIDENCE POINTING THAT IT IS!" right now it's Uncertain/Unconfirmed News. "This is a thing that might be happening, but we don't know for sure yet."

Complete disregard of the facts is fake news. I know you feel Mensch is uncreditable, but can you say you've seen with your own eyes her assertions are straight out lies being fed to us? You have proof that there is no sealed indictments? To twist it (and fwiw this is by no means an attack on you nor do I believe you're actually doing this) how do we know that this refusal to consider she might be right isn't the fake news? Your assertions are no more creditable than her's.

False information is a rabbit hole. You can choose to believe it or not believe it based on your reasoning and understanding of the facts as you know them. You don't fix the problem by stopping the lies. There will always be lies. You fix the problem by teaching people how to detect the lies in the first place. (Ideally your teachers aren't corrupted by lies to begin with but that's a thought spiral and a half.)
posted by INFJ at 2:49 PM on May 15, 2017


I wasn't joking when I've been saying he gave them the nuke codes.

We wouldn't have gotten those from a "trusted ally".
posted by jammer at 2:51 PM on May 15, 2017


I have people brief me on great intel every day

I thought he didn't bother with that?
posted by Artw at 2:51 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


You have proof that there is no sealed indictments?

Do you have proof that I don't have a zebra which I have dyed pink in my closet? If I send a tweet claiming I do, should we treat that as Unconfirmed News?
posted by Justinian at 2:51 PM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


How poetic is it that Trump didn't share this information with the Russians strategically or even because it was pertinent but because HE WANTED TO SHOW HOW HE HAS LOTS OF IMPORTANT SECRETS AND IS A BIG SECRET BOY
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:51 PM on May 15, 2017 [123 favorites]


"Did you see the pictures of me driving the truck? That truck was huge, believe me."
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:52 PM on May 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Seems like the investigation is really easy at this point: did Trump "tape" his meeting with Lavrov and will he hand over the tapes to the intelligence committees?

I do wonder if this sheds any more light on why Spicer ran so far from any questions about taping today.
posted by zachlipton at 2:52 PM on May 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


I'm afraid the contents of that conversation are classified and to be shared only with the Russian state news agency
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:53 PM on May 15, 2017 [19 favorites]


If this is a trap for Trump, it's kind of a neat one, no? Or am I ascribing far too much competence to the people possibly involved?
posted by yasaman at 2:54 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


If I send a tweet claiming I do, should we treat that as Unconfirmed News?
posted by Justinian at 6:51 PM on May 15 [+] [!]


I don't see why not? What harm does us believing you do have a zebra dyed pink in your closet do us? Do you have a co-collaborator also claiming you have this pink closet zebra?
posted by INFJ at 2:55 PM on May 15, 2017


Do you have proof that I don't have a zebra which I have dyed pink in my closet? If I send a tweet claiming I do, should we treat that as Unconfirmed News?
posted by Justinian


Just went and checked your closet. Holy shit, you really do have one in there.
posted by azpenguin at 2:55 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


"but why is there classified information?"

you could say the same about cups and forks. we don't want that life bringing element to slip through our fingers.
posted by clavdivs at 2:55 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Or Russia taped it on their non news camera.
posted by AlexiaSky at 2:56 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Extraordinary claims require extraordinary tweets
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:56 PM on May 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


Classified information, if you think about it, why? People don't ask that question, but why is there classified information?

Donald Trump, if you think about it, why? People don't ask that question, but why is there Donald Trump?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:57 PM on May 15, 2017 [19 favorites]


McCain is gonna McCain: "We certainly don't want any president to leak classified information but the president does have the right to do that."

What a useless person.
posted by zachlipton at 2:57 PM on May 15, 2017 [102 favorites]


So: 45 decides to fuck over FBI. Then fucks over allied intelligence. He really is too stupid to survive.

I am starting to worry a little bit (for the republic, not him) that the endgame here is going to be Trump dying of natural causes and the world wondering how natural they were.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:58 PM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


...why is there classified information?
I theoretically had access to classified information, but I don't think I ever read any knowingly.
When I was working at DIA, I had the sense that, if this information got out, our spooks in the field were in danger for their lives.
When I was at State, I had the sense that , if this information got out, X would realize what we said to Y. I had the idea that it would just be embarrassing.
But I guess it can wreck all kinds of sensitive relationships.
posted by MtDewd at 2:58 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'd love to continue the pink zebra fake news discussion but I've been shocked speechless at this Trump Leaked Highly Classified Information to Russia news.

I just can't do this anymore. Stop Mr Toad's Wild Ride, I want to get off.
posted by Justinian at 2:58 PM on May 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


Not sure how right this is but I just read that yes the President can declassify any info he wants but then it means it can be subject to FOIA. Is this true?
People say they're filing for it as we speak. Not that they're going to get it if it's that sensitive. I think it more for the point that this is just another level of how Trump is an absolute fuck up.
posted by Jalliah at 2:59 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


I am starting to worry a little bit (for the republic, not him) that the endgame here is going to be Trump dying of natural causes and the world wondering how natural they were.

Honestly, the fact that he's made it this far should put to rest anyone's paranoid conspiracy thoughts about the intelligence community assassinating domestic leaders. If they haven't offed him already, it really is just something American Spies Don't Do (At Least At Home).
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:00 PM on May 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


I just can't do this anymore. Stop Mr Toad's Wild Ride, I want to get off.

The pink zebra told you to say that, didn't he?
posted by diogenes at 3:00 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


With the monitor turned 90 degrees

This is the most interesting part of that story. After rotating the monitor do they then place it on a photocopier switched to its highest magnification setting to blow up the photo?
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 3:01 PM on May 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


the President can declassify any info he wants but then it means it can be subject to FOIA. Is this true?

Presumably the President can set the classification level? I'm curious about the answer to this, too.
posted by bardophile at 3:02 PM on May 15, 2017


Ah ah ha ha ha ha ha ha

McCain just saw WP: "We certainly don't want any president to leak classified information but the president does have the right to do that."

Spineless loser fuck manages to actually managing to suprise us with the depth of his cowadice.
posted by Artw at 3:02 PM on May 15, 2017 [35 favorites]


Srsly, when he was a *candidate* I destroyed my remaining street cred by claiming that the Deep State, or Powers that be, would simply not allow his continued existence if he came within a moonshine whisper of power.
posted by stonepharisee at 3:02 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


I am starting to worry a little bit (for the republic, not him) that the endgame here is going to be Trump dying of natural causes and the world wondering how natural they were.

We're all going to be really upset if that happens .
posted by Artw at 3:03 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


You have proof that there is no sealed indictments?

Ok, we're really going to have to do this on Louis Menche I guess. Here's her post about "sealed indictments":

While it is understood that the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution means that, until Mr. Trump is impeached, he cannot be prosecuted, sources say that the indictment is intended by the FBI and prosecutors in the Justice Department to form the basis of Mr. Trump’s impeachment. The indictment is, perhaps uniquely, not intended or expected to be used for prosecution, sources say, because of the constitutional position of the President.

This is goddamn gibberish. The Supremacy Clause has nothing to do with Presidential immunity, the President is immune from civil suit in his official capacity, not from criminal prosecution (ask Nixon), or from civil suit against his personal estate (ask the Clintons). The FBI doesn't form a basis for impeachment. What the fuck is "the constitutional position of the President"? Is it, he's the President? Welcome to tautology club, this is tautology club! But don't worry, Orrin Hatch is the president already, so I guess "the constitutional position of the President" isn't actually relevant to Trump after all?

So, I can be confident that there are no "sealed indictments", because Menche is a raving loon and nothing she's saying bears any resemblance to the actual criminal or Constitutional procedure of the United States. She might as well be talking about gold fringe. She's doing the same thing as Trump does, putting words that are tangentially related to an actual topic of knowledge together in a paragraph, but those words do not come together to form cogent or coherent thoughts that are attached to a reality observable by independent third parties.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:04 PM on May 15, 2017 [21 favorites]


Frump, not McCain
posted by stonepharisee at 3:05 PM on May 15, 2017


Future McCain: "We certainly don't want any president to start a nuclear war but the president does have the right to do that" [fake]
posted by zachlipton at 3:05 PM on May 15, 2017 [26 favorites]


I wasn't joking when I've been saying he gave them the nuke codes.

It went down like this:

Latrov: We have your nuke code. Its is 5-20-Alpha-Lambda-6

Trump: Ha! That's not even correct. Its "Make America Glow Again." No, seriously, it is. Isn't that a riot?

Latrov: Yes, very droll.

Trump: Want to hold the football? Its really surprisingly light.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:06 PM on May 15, 2017 [21 favorites]


“At no time were any intelligence sources or methods discussed and no military operations were disclosed that were not already known publicly.”

mcmasters knows better. this is cya for the orange tyrant. sharing or confirming classified information, even if it is publicly known and appears in the press, is a crime. e-2 comms techs know this. need-to-know + posses the right level clearance is the only permissable​ criteria.
posted by j_curiouser at 3:06 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


John McCain is 80 years old and was just re-elected to a six-year term in the Senate. His political future would seem somewhat limited. All he has to do to secure his legacy as someone other than He Who Unleashed Sarah Palin Upon The World is to speak the truth, which is, this President is unfit for office and should resign. This does not appear to be the choice he is making.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:06 PM on May 15, 2017 [93 favorites]


It's notable that McMaster's statement isn't a denial that this happened, just that it didn't involve sources or methods or non-public military operations. There is inevitably plenty of intelligence that could be shared from one of our allies that is highly sensitive but doesn't fall into those exact categories. And revealing the information would certainly help the Russians learn about sources and methods even if Trump didn't personally identify the source.
posted by zachlipton at 3:09 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


schroedinger: there are still people who, when you suggest perhaps this election should be a teachable moment, will start talking about Debbie Wasserman Schultz and/or Donna Brazile. Hard to believe but its true.
posted by Justinian at 3:09 PM on May 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


McCain genuinely likes doing this shit. It's a kink. He's a natural born traitor.
posted by Artw at 3:11 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Justinian, yes, that is one of the many many many reasons we are fucked
posted by Anonymous at 3:12 PM on May 15, 2017


Stop Mr Toad's Wild Ride, I want to get off.

Mr Toad's Wild Ride? This is California Screamin'. You thought the worst part was the magnetic railgun launch and it just gets worse from there.
posted by Talez at 3:13 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


You thought the worst part was the magnetic railgun launch and it just gets worse from there.

Mr Trump's Wild Ride uses goddamned steam, apparently.
posted by Freon at 3:15 PM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


because Menche is a raving loon and nothing she's saying bears any resemblance to the actual criminal or Constitutional procedure of the United States.

Just want to point out that her being uncreditable and uneducated in constitutional procedure isn't proof there isn't sealed indictments. You can be uncreditable and uneducated and still be right. You can be wrong about elements of a fact and still have it be true. (I could, for examples sake, say that the sun is the eye of a god that warms the earth. You and I know the sun isn't an actual eye of god, but we can agree it still warms the earth)

Hell I am not even arguing that she is right! My point is that there is no proof either way. We don't have proof that she's right or that she's wrong. I'm just saying she's giving hope and some people believe her. Until proven one way or another, she's not doing a whole lot of harm and might be lifting the hearts of some. You really want to crush that because you think she's a raving loon?
posted by INFJ at 3:15 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Only someone either lost to despair or wallowing in privilege can say this. Read bardophile's amazing comment about Pakistan above.

Yes, and this is what authoritarians they want. They want you to give up. They don't want their power to be challenged in any way. They don't want to be questioned. And this is why they attack anything and everything that could allow them to lose power.

Voters aren't voting for them, so they change the rules and disenfranchise people through gerrymandering or making the actual act of voting harder. When laws and executive orders they create are struck down as unconstitutional, they attack the legitimacy of the court system. When the media does their jobs and points out hypocrisy, scams and corruption, they proclaim journalists and journalism itself the enemy and threaten to stop holding press conferences. When things they've said become inconvenient they deny and gaslight and flood us with propaganda and then deny some more,

All of this is a pattern of behavior. To cast doubt. To delegitimize. It is why so many GOP Senators and Representatives are refusing to hold Town Halls and ignoring public opinion. And why they are trying so hard to weaken systems that are in place to prevent and counteract corruption, fascism and authoritarianism. This is why Trump praises bullies and their strong-arm tactics.

The GOP and the Trump administration don't want a revolt or an uprising. They want you to lose hope. They want you to give up.

That's how they win.

Yeah, sorry. No way. No way in hell.

Fuck that noise.
posted by zarq at 3:15 PM on May 15, 2017 [100 favorites]


It's notable that McMaster's statement isn't a denial that this happened, just that it didn't involve sources or methods or non-public military operations. There is inevitably plenty of intelligence that could be shared from one of our allies that is highly sensitive but doesn't fall into those exact categories. And revealing the information would certainly help the Russians learn about sources and methods even if Trump didn't personally identify the source.

"The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said that Trump’s decision to do so risks cooperation from an ally that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State."

If that means something like a Pakistani agent inside ISIS, Trump blabbing could jeopardize future intelligence from Pakistan. So he likely could've burned one of the only sources we have inside ISIS to impress Lavrov with how he's a Real Boy now.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:15 PM on May 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


Rarely is the question asked: is our Presidents leaking?
posted by rhizome at 3:17 PM on May 15, 2017 [58 favorites]


This is another really interesting detail in the Post article:
The Washington Post is withholding most plot details, including the name of the city, at the urging of officials who warned that revealing them would jeopardize important intelligence capabilities.
That means that the Post had these details to begin with, which means that they were leaked too, or they were just outright given the transcript of the meeting. Oh yeah, did I mention that there's apparently a transcript?
One of Bossert’s subordinates also called for the problematic portion of Trump’s discussion to be stricken from internal memos and for the full transcript to be limited to a small circle of recipients, efforts to prevent sensitive details from being disseminated further or leaked.
A transcript makes sense; the US Government pays analysts to study Lavrov's every move, so certainly recording what he says in the Oval Office is the sort of thing that would be useful. But it's really notable that nobody here, even people who directly work for Trump, is denying that this happened or that the information wasn't sensitive, to the point where they're urging reporters not to publish it.
posted by zachlipton at 3:18 PM on May 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


tbc, the orange tyrant did not declassify anything, though it is in his power to make it happen.
b. If DoD officials have reason to believe that the public interest in disclosure of information
outweighs the need for continued classification, they shall refer the matter to the appropriate
senior agency official appointed in accordance with section 5.4(d) of Reference (d), who shall
consult with the OCA. The senior agency official shall determine whether to declassify the
information.
c. Classified information that has been declassified without proper authority remains
classified until declassified by an OCA with jurisdiction over the information.
dodm 5200.01-vi enc 5 sec 1 pp b, c

The Original Classifying Authority (oca) must be consulted.
posted by j_curiouser at 3:19 PM on May 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


It's ok guys. I have it on good authority that once we get a Democratic president the Republicans will surely realize they were wrong and have absolutely no tolerance for this sort of shit. Anything that has even the vaguest appearance of impropriety will be surely investigated to the fullest.
posted by Talez at 3:19 PM on May 15, 2017 [33 favorites]


Unless the Russians leaked this themselves.

Sorry, which ones are the Russians again? I lost my bingo mindmap.
posted by petebest at 3:20 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


sharing or confirming classified information, even if it is publicly known and appears in the press, is a crime.

Valerie Plame's autobiography is about 50% black lines. Granted, the administration was being vindictive and shitty, but they had the legal right to black out even the stuff that was public info about what happened when she was outed. The publisher hired a journalist to write an appendix explaining it, because the journalist could talk about the public record all she wanted. Plame could not.

There is absolutely every reason to take McMaster's word as suspect on this issue, whether he's working in good faith to safeguard US intelligence or not. Either way he has good reason to deny anything serious happened--when it clearly did happen.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:20 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Hell I am not even arguing that she is right! My point is that there is no proof either way. We don't have proof that she's right or that she's wrong. I'm just saying she's giving hope and some people believe her. Until proven one way or another, she's not doing a whole lot of harm and might be lifting the hearts of some. You really want to crush that because you think she's a raving loon?

Benghazi "lifted the hearts of some". So yes. We don't need a Benghazi of the left when there's actually the biggest scandal in American history. She's not lifting hearts, she's discrediting the actual story by being a fucking loon and making shit up that sounds like real words but is actually nonsense and tricking concerned citizens into believing her bullshit.

Yes, I absolutely want to discredit her and everything she is saying until there is proof of wrongdoing, not some bullshit burden to prove a negative. You can't prove Hilary didn't secretly order Benghazi either. That doesn't make it a legitimate argument.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:21 PM on May 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


is our Presidents leaking?
Depends
posted by clavdivs at 3:21 PM on May 15, 2017 [55 favorites]


Jesus Fucking Christ, it's not even a week since the last time I looked away from the news for literally an hour or two and ALL GODDAMN HELL BROKE LOOSE. How do I not have a perforated ulcer yet?, I ask you.

Seriously, the writers of 2017 now have us living in a neverending Candid Camera show called Surely This!
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:22 PM on May 15, 2017 [22 favorites]


>> McCain just saw WP: "We certainly don't want any president to leak classified information but the president does have the right to do that."

> Spineless loser fuck manages to actually managing to suprise us with the depth of his cowadice.


I'm left speechless by Trump's casual disclosure of intelligence shared in confidence by a partner. As a long-ago John Le Carré fan, I'm picturing deep-cover spies around the world, glancing up at the TV screen playing the news in smoky bars, seeing this scroll by, and shuffling off to hit the emergency eject buttons on their missions. I can't even.

But McCain, of all the fucking people in DC, should really know better. I've been saying, since way back when, you'll never go wrong underestimating the integrity of this preening, spotlight-hogging waste of a skin suit - and even so, I'm surprised by his comment.
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:22 PM on May 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


Also: There's nothing creepy at all about the fact that Twitler allowed Russian media in but kept American media out on the same day he handed over sensitive intel to the Russians.

Nothing to make that look premeditated at all. Or intentional. Nothing to see here.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:23 PM on May 15, 2017 [52 favorites]


Here's the crowd outside Sean Spicer's office. No word if he's in there or outside in the bushes again.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:23 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Soooo

was it Turkey's intel? It was probably Turkey's intel, wasn't it.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:24 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Lindsey Graham shared the WaPo "TrumpLeaks" article on Facebook with this comment:

"I have no idea if it's true. If it is, it would be very troubling."
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:24 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


neverending Candid Camera show called Surely This!

Did you ever play that game "Fortunately.... Unfortunately" with a little kid?
posted by spitbull at 3:26 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


The story about Trump's leaks has now broken the record for most simultaneous readers on The Post's website, dethroning the Access Hollywood tape story.
posted by vathek at 3:26 PM on May 15, 2017 [31 favorites]


NYT has the story now too. No new details really in the stub of an article yet, but it means someone leaked this thing far and wide.
posted by zachlipton at 3:27 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


John McCain is 80 years old and was just re-elected to a six-year term in the Senate. His political future would seem somewhat limited. All he has to do to secure his legacy as someone other than He Who Unleashed Sarah Palin Upon The World is to speak the truth, which is, this President is unfit for office and should resign. This does not appear to be the choice he is making.

By the time all of this is over, I wouldn't be surprised if Trump forced McCain to stay in an exact replica of the Hanoi Hilton, causing the august Senator from Arizona to say that while this demeans every Vietnam POW, it is within the president's rights to make him do so.
posted by dhens at 3:27 PM on May 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


"I have no idea if it's true. If it is, it would be very troubling."

Lindsey Graham, you fucking waste of space. Welcome to the USA, everyone, where "trouble" now rhymes with "ruble."
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:28 PM on May 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


This reminds me of an insecure kid I knew in elementary school. He would reflexively give away his best toys to "friends" so they'd wanna hang out with him.
posted by piglord at 3:30 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Hell I am not even arguing that she is right! My point is that there is no proof either way. We don't have proof that she's right or that she's wrong. I'm just saying she's giving hope and some people believe her. Until proven one way or another, she's not doing a whole lot of harm and might be lifting the hearts of some. You really want to crush that because you think she's a raving loon?

It's giving people false hope that's the problem. This latest prediction won't plan out, and some true believers will either be MORE ready to believe the next bit of baseless bullshit, while others will give up resisting in despair. Following Mensch down the rabbit hole also makes ALL Trump opponents/Resisters look as if they're communing with loons and makes it less likely for some of the wishy-washy moderate middle to join in either thought or deed.

There is no excusing Mensch and the damage she's causing. You may as well go out of your way to support flat earthers, creationists, anti-vaxers and GOOPists.
posted by maudlin at 3:30 PM on May 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


The Daily Show has collected tweets about classified information from Trump and various Republicans in the pioneering format of a quote retweet storm to ask HOW MANY TIMES WILL WE FIND REPUBLICANS CRITICIZING THE EXACT THING TRUMP IS DOING?
posted by zachlipton at 3:30 PM on May 15, 2017 [37 favorites]


So is Trump going to deny this, say it was actually a great thing to do, or both?
posted by Artw at 3:31 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Hey guys, I think I figured out which one of them was actually the puppet!
posted by kyrademon at 3:31 PM on May 15, 2017 [77 favorites]


If only there were a Hamilton lyric to sum this up.
posted by drezdn at 3:32 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


I really want reporters to ask Republicans what would be a step to far for Trump.
posted by drezdn at 3:34 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


drezdn, does "I hope you burn" work?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:34 PM on May 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


So is Trump going to deny this, say it was actually a great thing to do, or both?


The story will change many times. So it will be everything.
posted by Jalliah at 3:35 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Interesting bit from Tim O'Brian on Trump's tape recording ways: Waiting for Those Trump-Comey Tapes? Don't Stay Up Late
Back in the early 2000s, Trump used to tell me all the time that he was recording me when I covered him as reporter for the New York Times. He also said the same thing when I was writing a biography of him, "TrumpNation." I never thought he was, but who could be sure?

Trump sued me for libel shortly after the book was published in 2005, arguing that "TrumpNation's" representation of his track record as a businessman and his wealth had damaged his reputation. He lost the case in 2011.

During the litigation, my lawyers deposed Trump for two days in December, 2007. Under oath, Trump said he never recorded our conversations and that his Trump Tower office was not equipped to do so.
...
"Mr. Trump, did you ever tell Mr. O'Brien you were tape-recording conversations with him?"

"I'm not equipped to tape-record. I may have said it once or twice to him just to -- on the telephone, because everything I said to him he'd write incorrectly; so just to try and keep it honest."
posted by zachlipton at 3:35 PM on May 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


Meanwhile, literally every potential intelligence source we have in the world -- from Russia to North Korea to ISIS-held territories to who knows where else -- has just been given a giant neon warning from us saying that they should under no circumstances trust us.

Because this president does not give a fuck about protecting anyone who wants to help us.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:36 PM on May 15, 2017 [63 favorites]



So is Trump going to deny this, say it was actually a great thing to do, or both?


He'll claim Hillary or Obama did the same thing.
posted by drezdn at 3:37 PM on May 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


T.D. Strange, from my understanding, the whole sealed indictments thing goes along with the biggest scandal in American history. Even at it's worst, it's just noise adding to the same conclusion that our president is a criminal and should be removed from office as quickly as possible.

"discrediting the actual story"
What is the actual story? Right now the consensus is that the president has been shady, but not shady enough for the GOP in congress to do anything meaningful about it. There has been so many "surely this's".. but congress is still sitting on it's hands.. because they would never impeach a republican president without smoking gun evidence. Mench and Taylor are saying that there might actually be smoking gun evidence that congress has to acknowledge or face from serious questions from their constituents.

I could understand your point if the idea of sealed indictments meant that everyone stops trying to pursue justice against our President. The investigative committees in congress disband because there might be sealed indictments. Except.. that's not happening? No one, not congress nor the main stream media is acknowledging their assertions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's a big difference from Benghazi?

I understand wanting to be skeptical, I don't blame you and I think you have good reasons. I don't even blame you for demanding the truth. But at this point you're abandoning a potential positive outcome, the same one everyone wants, in demand of the truth.
posted by INFJ at 3:37 PM on May 15, 2017


MSNBC just read a statement from Tillerson stating that sources and methods were not discussed.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:38 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Can we please stop paying attention to Louise Mensch?
posted by Artw at 3:38 PM on May 15, 2017 [60 favorites]


Feels like a vodka hangover.

Brilliant idea!

*Discards half-eaten nachos, reaches for vodka and a funnel.*
posted by loquacious at 3:39 PM on May 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


There is no excusing Mensch and the damage she's causing. You may as well go out of your way to support flat earthers, creationists, anti-vaxers and GOOPists.

Joseph Bernstein, BuzzFeed: Why Is A Top Harvard Law Professor Sharing Anti-Trump Conspiracy Theories?
Democrats and the mainstream media have spent the months since Donald Trump's election fixated on the the flood of unconfirmed reports, half-truths, and outright propaganda that accompanied his rise.

But some of the country’s leading liberal lights — respected figures including elected officials, prominent legal scholars, members of the media, and celebrities — are themselves sharing wild allegations about the Trump administration from unreliable sources.

Perhaps no one embodies this trend so well as Laurence Tribe.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:39 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


He'll say it was a great move on his part to cut through the bureaucratic bullshit and share important intel directly with our allies. When someone questions him about the claim that Russia is our ally, he'll say "we'll see what happens, but wouldn't it be nice?"
posted by contraption at 3:40 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Can we please stop paying attention to Louise Mensch?

Seriously. I've been flagging and moving on, but it doesn't seem to be helping.
posted by diogenes at 3:40 PM on May 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


The article says that after it was discovered (by whom?) that trump had given the Russians highly classified info, there was a mad scramble with lots of phone calls being made within the intel community to contain the damage. The leak to the press could have come from any of those involved sources. There's no reason to wildly speculate that the press leak came from trump's inner circle or from the Russians themselves.
posted by rocket88 at 3:41 PM on May 15, 2017


stating that sources and methods were not discussed.

That's pretty funny. Ha-ha funny.

Just knowing what the info is and who has it and when can really help winnow down on sources and methods.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 3:41 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


So far, we have:

McMaster (in the article): doesn't deny it but says it wasn't sources, methods, or non-public military ops
Dina Powell: "This story is false. The president only discussed the common threats that both countries faced."
Tillerson: doesn't deny it but says it wasn't sources, methods, or military ops

There's a significant discrepancy here. If the story is "false," why wouldn't Tillerson or McMaster deny it? And why would they brief the Senate Intel Committee on a false story?
posted by zachlipton at 3:42 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Someone on Greta's show suggested that Trump doesn't even know the sources or methods because intelligence doesn't trust him with it.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:42 PM on May 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


Can we please stop paying attention to Louise Mensch?

I agree, and beg for a moratorium on all things Mensch and Taylor related unless and until one of them says something provably true. This shit is devouring the usual liberal blogosphere suspects and has a high risk of being disinformation intended to discredit Trump critics as a bunch of conspiracy theorists.

Remember the Dan Rather/TANG memo blowup? This smells like that, orchestrated by Putin. If what they are saying is true then the breathless speculation doesn't even matter. If it isn't than we are being right well played.
posted by spitbull at 3:43 PM on May 15, 2017 [28 favorites]


Trump went off script and began describing details of an Islamic State terrorist threat related to the use of laptop computers on aircraft.

And the Russians certainly won't blab this info to their allies in Iran and Syria, who could then pass the info to Hezbollah and deduce the source(s) and methods. What could possibly go wrong?

Dershowitz just noted the possibility of that and/or that the intel source was Israel on MSNBC, and what a delightful set of repercussions that could have.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:43 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Every time something like this breaks I have the same terrifying paranoid thought: What if this is all a ruse and people inside the administration are purposefully planting false "fake news" stories to discredit the "mainstream liberal media" so that it'll make it easier to eliminate and replace them with state run media?
posted by guiseroom at 3:44 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


I really want reporters to ask Republicans what would be a step to far for Trump.

Why? The answer is manifestly nothing. Even if some Republican says "lol well I guess if he murdered someone in cold blood!" then two weeks later, Trump will stagger out of the White House covered in blood and holding a knife, and Republicans will just shrug. There's no step too far. We need to stop looking for or imagining one, it's a pointless exercise that posits a backbone or sense of morality that is just no longer in evidence, if it ever truly was.
posted by yasaman at 3:44 PM on May 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


The article was pretty clear that the he didn't explicitly talk about sources and methods but gave info that could easily lead experience intel peeps in figuring that stuff out.
So I suppose statements like tillerons might work for some people but whatever was talked about is serious enough that IC peeps and Trump's own people it looks like felt the need to leak it.
posted by Jalliah at 3:45 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Somebody woke up Tillerson.
posted by Artw at 3:45 PM on May 15, 2017


McMaster is apparently about to brief reporters and claim that the Washington Post story is not true. So that's nice.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:46 PM on May 15, 2017


That Tillerson statement, hoo boy.
posted by notyou at 3:46 PM on May 15, 2017


During the litigation, my lawyers deposed Trump for two days in December, 2007. Under oath, Trump said he never recorded our conversations and that his Trump Tower office was not equipped to do so.

A fourth person said he knew that Mr. Trump had recorded a phone conversation with him because it was later entered into evidence in a lawsuit.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:48 PM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


That Tillerson statement, hoo boy.

It's some very careful wording.
posted by Artw at 3:48 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


The leaks are coming from … inside the White House!
posted by Kabanos at 3:50 PM on May 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Someone on Greta's show suggested that Trump doesn't even know the sources or methods because intelligence doesn't trust him with it.

Is that being offered as a defense (ie. this isn't that bad because Trump knows little because nobody trusts him)?
posted by nubs at 3:50 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


My parents are in their 70's and have known the Smiths for 50 years. They really don't want to end a friendship but at the same time, my mom feels like she can't respect them anymore.
The more you ignore them, the closer they get.

posted by kirkaracha at 3:50 PM on May 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


It's just unthinkable how much damage Trump has done to the status of the US as a world power over the last 4 months. It is hard to imagine how much weaker US espionage programmes are today than they were a few weeks ago. The country is haemorrhaging hard and soft power from Trump's mouth and the GOP is doing nothing to stop it. Unbelievable.
posted by howfar at 3:50 PM on May 15, 2017 [66 favorites]


If McMaster is talking to reporters that an indication of how serious this is.
posted by Jalliah at 3:51 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


If McMaster is talking to reporters that an indication of how serious this is.

Nah, the National Security Advisor speaks at hastily called press briefings about completely false stories all the time!
posted by diogenes at 3:54 PM on May 15, 2017 [21 favorites]


McMaster did part of Spicey's briefing last week. I'm not sure that's indicative of anything. Other than they don't want Spicer to talk to people in the trees tonight.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:54 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


The thread has been updated to more accuratly report the position of Spicer in the tree.
posted by Artw at 3:56 PM on May 15, 2017 [20 favorites]


Bob better realize that he's spiraling down too, latched to Trump's parasite-ridden hide alongside hundreds of other GOP remoras.

Sen. Bob Corker: White House in ‘downward spiral’

“The White House has got to do something soon to bring itself under control and in order,” he said Monday, according to Bloomberg. “It’s got to happen.” [...] “Obviously they’re in a downward spiral right now and they’ve got to figure out a way to come to grips [with] all that’s happening,"
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:57 PM on May 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


Stop Mr Toad's Wild Ride, I want to get off.

I like Atlantic writer Mat Ford's metaphor: It's less of a "news cycle" these days and more of that BSG episode where the Cylons attack every 33 minutes.

Or Josh Marshall's observation: The best part is that something even more fucking bizarre will occur within 3 to 4 days.

All this is to say, political chaos in Washington is a return on investment for Moscow, possibly the first time that anyone has invested successfully in Trump.
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:57 PM on May 15, 2017 [74 favorites]


I really want reporters to ask Republicans what would be a step to far for Trump.

After the previous North Korea missile test, I flipped past Fox News and found the panel suggesting Trump use a preemptive nuke strike to take out North Korea. These people, who probably identify as Christians, were casually talking about incinerating 25 million human beings as if they were ordering take-out. There is no step too far for them. We can't count on them to suddenly wake up. We're in this alone.
posted by bluecore at 3:58 PM on May 15, 2017 [31 favorites]


I've thought Louise Mensch has had the scent of disinfo honeypot for some time now. But these days, everything looks like disinfo to me. If something sounds like good news, I immediately distrust it. When you're through the looking glass, the real world looks weird.
posted by vibrotronica at 3:58 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


“The White House has got to do something soon to bring itself under control and in order,” he said Monday, according to Bloomberg.

If only we knew who's causing all this chaos
posted by theodolite at 4:00 PM on May 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


Let's also just compare the response to this to everything Republicans in Congress have been saying at great length on camera about the [gasp!] unmasking of US names in totally innocuous incidental surveillance collection in recent weeks.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:01 PM on May 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


roomthreeseventeen- not questioning you, just curious where you got wind that McMaster plans to deny the WP story? I had read that a Bloomberg reporter witnessed McMaster say "this is the last place I want to be right now, I'm leaving", but I was hoping maybe he wouldn't be out there trying to defend or deny this situation.
posted by nightrecordings at 4:01 PM on May 15, 2017


I'd say it's indicative because this story will undermine the US global intelligence system. McMaster is likely one of the only of Trump's people that really understands just how Trump doing this royally fucks pretty much everything connected to intelligence gathering. Trump basically threw US and US allies under the bus for the sake of his ego.
McMaster has to do whatever he can to control the damage.
posted by Jalliah at 4:01 PM on May 15, 2017 [22 favorites]


It's like Moore's Law for this administration. "The best part is that something even more fucking bizarre will occur within 3 to 4 days."
posted by jocelmeow at 4:05 PM on May 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


It would appear to me that the only way out of this for the White House is to release the "tapes" of the meeting. That should clear things up nicely.
posted by nubs at 4:05 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


nightrecordings, it was reported on MSNBC from someone inside the White House. But who knows. Trump said last week his aides can't always be accurate.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:06 PM on May 15, 2017


I expect McMaster et al to carefully deny it because they feel they have too in order to at least try to mitigate the outfall. Not necessarily to protect Trump but to protect the entire US global intelligence apparatus.
posted by Jalliah at 4:06 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Does Trump seem like someone capable of bringing himself under control to them?
posted by Artw at 4:06 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Newsweek: NATO PLANS FOR DONALD TRUMP’S SHORT ATTENTION SPAN
According to Foreign Policy, NATO wants some of the world’s top leaders to cut down their discussions to two to four minutes, and one unidentified source said organizers for the May 25 meeting were “freaking out.”
posted by Room 641-A at 4:06 PM on May 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


I really want reporters to ask Republicans what would be a step to far for Trump.

At this point, I think he could recreate the entire first episode of "Black Mirror", (MINUS the save-the-princess rationale) and Republicans would find an excuse for him.
posted by nightrecordings at 4:07 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


did I mention that there's apparently a transcript?

Which would indicate they're recording meetings in the Oval Office?
posted by chris24 at 4:07 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Newsweek: NATO PLANS FOR DONALD TRUMP’S SHORT ATTENTION SPAN

I really, really don't want him to leave the country. Especially when he goes to places without extradition laws.
posted by INFJ at 4:09 PM on May 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


McMaster: The story is false. At no time were sources or methods discussed. Trump only talked about military operations that were already public.

"I was in the room. It didn't happen."

He um, didn't address the actual story.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:09 PM on May 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


I'm sure that McMaster will deny it, because the White House denies everything. The question is exactly how he denies it. Because his statement and Tillerson's statement aren't denials at all, and he could easily put himself in a situation where he's either not really denying anything, or contradicting something where there's a transcript and the Senate intel committee has been briefed. Either way, it's not good.
posted by zachlipton at 4:09 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]




Is that a record for shortest press conference?
posted by OverlappingElvis at 4:10 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


McMaster: "The story that came out tonight, as reported, is false....[something about how they discussed various common threats, including those to "civil aviation"]...At no time were intelligence sources or methods discussed and the President did not disclose any military ops that were not already publicly known." Says he was in the room and two other people in the room also confirm. "I was in the room. It didn't happen."

That's not a denial, at all. Nobody claimed it was sources, methods, or military ops, and you can do a ton of damage without revealing those things.
posted by zachlipton at 4:11 PM on May 15, 2017 [21 favorites]


The Original Classifying Authority (oca) must be consulted.

Unless you're the president in which case you can just tell someone. There is probably an official process like you describe for when the president wants to declassify documents for release or something (like old stuff that hasn't been relevant for decades) but my understanding is that the president doesn't have to consult anyone and has unilateral discretion to declassify any info at any time.
posted by VTX at 4:11 PM on May 15, 2017


Two US officials who were briefed about Trump’s disclosures...

Under normal circumstances I am not a conspiracy theorist, but my biggest fear at this point is that this is a "fake leak" and designed purely to discredit the press.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:12 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Gonna go out on a limb here and suggest this story is not helpful to the Donald J. Trump Administration
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:14 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


The story that came out tonight, as reported, is false

to channel Steven Universe: That means something else is true but unreported!!
posted by INFJ at 4:15 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


[incorrect, disregard]
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:15 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


anybody taking wagers until we hear about how this is totally 'fake news' (from a certain, reputable Twitter source) and that we need to focus on MAGA or someshite?
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 4:15 PM on May 15, 2017


a "fake leak" and designed purely to discredit the press.

Seems far too well sourced for that.
posted by spitbull at 4:15 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]



Under normal circumstances I am not a conspiracy theorist, but my biggest fear at this point is that this is a "fake leak" and designed purely to discredit the press.


Well, with this White House the press would likely find out about the fake leak from the four other leaks that let them know the original one was fake.
posted by Existential Dread at 4:16 PM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


We'll, the leak says the Senate Intel committee was also briefed on the incident, so we should know soon enough whether or not they were actually briefed by someone regarding a possible delivery of sensitive intelligence to the Russian foreign minister by the president.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:16 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


my biggest fear at this point is that this is a "fake leak" and designed purely to discredit the press

"The press" is already completely discredited in the minds of Trumpies; per Trump's shaving kit I'd say we can avoid trying to explain by conspiracy what can be explained by incompetence.
posted by aspersioncast at 4:16 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


McMaster already said the exact same thing to the Post and it was in the original story. And the next sentence in the article is this:

The Post’s sources contradicted that account, saying senior White House officials needed to call the CIA and National Security Agency as soon as the conversation ended to try to prevent further information from leaking out.
posted by diogenes at 4:18 PM on May 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


If the options are

A) Trump does something idiotic and dangerous to stroke his own ego, or
B) Trump administration successfully executes convoluted and confidential plan

well, I'm gonna have to go with A every time.
posted by lydhre at 4:18 PM on May 15, 2017 [57 favorites]


the leak says the Senate Intel committee was also briefed on the incident, so we should know soon enough whether or not they were actually briefed by someone regarding a possible delivery of sensitive intelligence to the Russian foreign minister by the president.

Yup, if that happened, or the calls to the CIA and NSA happened, McMaster's statement falls apart immediately.
posted by diogenes at 4:20 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


And then Steve Bannon leans in to whisper to 45, "Gosh, if that happened today, imagine what might get out after a 'staff shake-up,' huh?"
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:20 PM on May 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


With regard to the Senate Intel committee, BuzzFeed now has:
At least one member of the Senate Intelligence Committee was also briefed on Trump’s disclosures, an intelligence committee staffer said. Sen. Mark Warner, the ranking Democrat on the committee, was not briefed, according to his office. Other members of the committee also said they did not receive a briefing.
To me, that sounds like they briefed Burr, the Chairman, if anyone. If it was just Burr and not Warner, that raises significant questions.
posted by zachlipton at 4:21 PM on May 15, 2017 [40 favorites]


A) Trump does something idiotic and dangerous to stroke his own ego, or
B) Trump administration successfully executes convoluted and confidential plan


The automatic preference for option A) is Josh Marshall's famous "Trump's Razor."

Although somewhere I saw this choice reframed as "Schroedinger's Asshole" today and lol'ed. (Either or both can be true and we won't know until it's too late to matter.)
posted by spitbull at 4:22 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


He leaves for his foreign tour Friday. What are the odds he takes any American media with him, and is it possible for him to regurgitate every classified document in the US government in the span of 12 days?
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:22 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Unless you're the president in which case you can just tell someone

Is there a citation to support this that I missed. Sure, it's the way the White House would want you to believe it is, but you know, this is a Nation of Laws, and if THE LAW says that "The President isn't bound by the OCA rules", then that's fine. But if there isn't a LAW that exempts the President, then why should they get a pass?

Wasn't Sessions going on about "prosecuting to the fullest extent of the Law"? If Trump didn't tag second, then he broke the law.
posted by mikelieman at 4:23 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


I really, really don't want him to leave the country. Especially when he goes to places without extradition laws.

If, hypothetically, he knew that the game was up and planned to make a run for Russia to seek asylum and/or call in his end of the bargain, where on his itinerary would be the best place to do this from? Will he be taking detours to inspect forward deployment bases in Estonia or taking a scenic stroll near the Polish-Kaliningrad border or anything?
posted by acb at 4:23 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Maybe we need a separate Trump section with a new start every 24 hours at 0:00 GMT. It's like pretty much every day something outrageous he and/or his minions have done comes to light.
posted by mareli at 4:24 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


I think we're getting to a point where these seismic stories can go in their own threads.
posted by rhizome at 4:26 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


IT HAS BEEN _0_ DAYS SINCE THE LAST TRUMP DISASTER.
posted by Justinian at 4:27 PM on May 15, 2017 [123 favorites]


well, I'm gonna have to go with A every time.

This is the essence of Trump's Razor, a law of logic invented by Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo. Given two explanations for some terrible thing involving Trump, all things being equal the stupider one is preferred. It is uncannily accurate.
posted by scalefree at 4:28 PM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


You seriously think for one second he would run away and abandon his Golden Tower, Mar-A-Lago, and all of the other golf courses? No way. You note I didn't question him abandoning his family because I presume the only important one--Ivanka--will be on the plane with him. However, Ivanka is not going to abandon her kids and she is not going to return to the USA without her father. It would make the Trump brand completely worthless.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:29 PM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


Unless all the cash is now in a Crimean dacha.
posted by spitbull at 4:30 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


"I was in the room. It didn't happen."

Truly there is a Trump tweet for all eventualities: it is not possible for my surrogates to stand at podium with perfect accuracy!
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 4:31 PM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Well. Oiled. Machine.
posted by rocket88 at 4:32 PM on May 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


What if we tell him he can name a regent for all the boring policy stuff and he still can go to all the state dinners and be King of All Ice Cream?

she says, despairing
posted by corb at 4:32 PM on May 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


Anyhow, Trump has made my parents' friends crazy and awful which in turn has made my mom sad and that's just another thing to add to the litany of reasons I hate him.

I had a similar conversation with my mom this weekend. She was lamenting how she doesn't understand how anyone cannot see what Trump is and how terrible a job he is doing. She said "every news report, every conversation I have is about it." And I said, "yeah, but you aren't watching Fox News, are you?" And she said "Of course I'm not watching Fox News. But even the local news..." "Yeah, Mom, but you live in Hawaii. You're surrounded by Democrats. It's different here (in Texas.)"

So yeah, my mom doesn't understand her friends back in Texas anymore because they are getting their news from fundamentally different sources. I'm just thankful my mom didn't fall into the Fox news black hole of rationality. (And that my Dad didn't live to the age of Trump because I suspect he would have fallen for it.)
posted by threeturtles at 4:33 PM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


It's not a fake leak. Who would fake it and why, and why then would WaPo take them seriously? Yes, you can see why someone would want to do it to try and muddy the leak-waters, but I'd hope that WaPo editorial would have the nous to out-think even the certified geniuses currently installed at the WH.

As for 'sources and methods' - that's unimportant. You can say 'we know that ISIS has a laptop bomb we can't screen for', and that immediately narrows it down to whoever in ISIS is creating such things and implies that someone in there is a spy. ISIS has a lot of people from the West in its ranks, but probably not so many in whatever circle is innovating gadgets, so if that group has a Brit or a German Turk or whoever posing as a jihadi, then... well, that's not ending well. Irreplaceable asset or dead hero, you choose. Why not both.
posted by Devonian at 4:33 PM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Alan Dershowitz on CNN: "This is the most serious charge ever made against a sitting President."
posted by Justinian at 4:33 PM on May 15, 2017 [64 favorites]




Is there a citation to support this that I missed. Sure, it's the way the White House would want you to believe it is, but you know, this is a Nation of Laws, and if THE LAW says that "The President isn't bound by the OCA rules", then that's fine. But if there isn't a LAW that exempts the President, then why should they get a pass?

It was established under Bush while leaking Valerie Plame's name to discredit Joe Wilson. I don't agree with the precedent but it has been made & we're stuck with it.
posted by scalefree at 4:34 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


CNN's State Dept correspondent is reporting that, of course, no one in State knew about this, they were all taken by surprise by the Secretary's statement.
posted by jammer at 4:34 PM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


You have to know that to Trunp the pressing question is "who leaked this?" Not "what have I done and how can I fix it, even politically?"

Mass firing of WH staff in 3...2...1....
posted by spitbull at 4:37 PM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


Man, my insta-fan fiction here is that he fires all three of them and decides to go it alone.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:38 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


I have a sneaking suspicion that this isn't the first time Trump "casually declassified" sensitive data while talking to a foreign official, just the first time it disturbed a bystander enough to leak about it.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:40 PM on May 15, 2017 [43 favorites]


CNN's State Dept correspondent is reporting that, of course, no one in State knew about this, they were all taken by surprise by the Secretary's statement.

Oh I think this just plays on an endless loop.

Can you imagine the "excitement" in the State department as they gear up for Friday? Not my job. Not my job. Thank God, not my job.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:41 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


WH comms staffers just put the TVs on super loud after we could hear yelling coming from room w/ Bannon, Spicer, Sanders

Jesus. Fucking. Christ. These. Fucking. Morons.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:42 PM on May 15, 2017 [42 favorites]


I don't like living in interesting times.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:43 PM on May 15, 2017 [107 favorites]


I hope what they're yelling about is the WH wants a FLAT DENIAL from Spicer or Sanders and they're refusing to come out with a flat denial! That's what's playing in my head movie.
posted by Justinian at 4:43 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


As for 'sources and methods' - that's unimportant. You can say 'we know that ISIS has a laptop bomb we can't screen for', and that immediately narrows it down to whoever in ISIS is creating such things and implies that someone in there is a spy.

And according to the article, Trump named the city were the intel originated.
posted by diogenes at 4:43 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


"Classified data for some, single scoops of ice cream for others."
posted by rhizome at 4:44 PM on May 15, 2017 [30 favorites]


The Times of Israel (also reported by Reuters): Senior member of Trump team said to tell Israelis: Western Wall is not your territory
According to the TV report, the angry exchanges began when the Israeli team working with the American delegation asked whether Netanyahu could accompany Trump when he visits the Western Wall, a key expected stop on his May 22-23 visit to Israel and the West Bank. No serving US president has ever visited the Western Wall, because US policy has been that the final status of Jerusalem has yet to be resolved in Israeli-Palestinian negotiations.

The US delegation reportedly rejected the request for Netanyahu to join the visit, saying it would be “a private visit” by the president and that he would go on his own. The Israelis then asked whether a TV crew providing live coverage of the Trump visit could at least continue to film here there.

At this point, the TV report said, a senior American official rudely responded: “What are you talking about? It’s none of your business. It’s not even part of your responsibility. It’s not your territory. It’s part of the West Bank.”

These comments led to vociferous protests by the Israelis, with the discussion descending into shouting, and the Israelis reminding the US team that the Western Wall and adjacent area “is territory holy to Israel.”
Ironically, the new US Ambassador to Israel just arrived in the country and went directly to the Western Wall as his first stop. The Prime Minister’s Office confirmed the story, which presumably sheds some light on why they decided to attack Trump today.

This is going to be one giant mess of a trip.
posted by zachlipton at 4:44 PM on May 15, 2017 [38 favorites]


That's what's playing in my head movie.

Ten cubits says the yelling is about who leaked. They don't care about anything but the leaks.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:46 PM on May 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


I just sat here for a few minutes and pondered the ramifications of this happening before his big trip. It turned me into Keanu Reeves cause all I can muster is 'woah'
posted by Jalliah at 4:46 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


> ... Bannon, Mike Dubke, Sarah Sanders and Spicer walked into cabinet room just now. They did not look happy. ... Can now hear yelling coming from room where officials are. ... WH comms staffers just put the TVs on super loud after we could hear yelling coming from room w/ Bannon, Spicer, Sanders

I was going to make a Downfall parody, but this is SO not funny.
posted by Westringia F. at 4:46 PM on May 15, 2017 [21 favorites]


However, Ivanka is not going to abandon her kids

Hahahhaha it's cute you think she has loyalty to anyone but herself.
posted by winna at 4:49 PM on May 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


WH comms staffers just put the TVs on super loud after we could hear yelling coming from room w/ Bannon, Spicer, Sanders

A shame that the volume knob doesn't go from "Low" to "High" to "High Enough That We Don't Notice The Collapse Of Our Civilization." Also, zero percent chance it isn't fox news on the TVs.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:49 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


If you were in charge of giving Trump his security briefing tomorrow, what the hell do you do?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:49 PM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


I'm betting he never leaves for the trip. He hates being away from home, and this weeks shit has already hit the fan.
posted by yoga at 4:50 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


I thought he was going to fix that whole I/P mess?
posted by Artw at 4:50 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


I spent this past weekend in the Southern Utah hinterlands camping, hiking, and exploring. On a dirt road in BFE, Utah there is a busted up semi trailer with a large "VOTE TRUMP" spray painted on the side.

The TRUMP was crossed out and a "I'm sorry I was wrong" was scrawled below it.

I shoulda snapped a picture. If I'm back down towards Capitol Reef (amazing place, BTW), I'll see what I can do.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 4:50 PM on May 15, 2017 [132 favorites]


If the TV is tuned to Fox I bet they are getting hear a lot about how terrible Hillary Clinton is.
posted by Artw at 4:51 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


If you were in charge of giving Trump his security briefing tomorrow, what the hell do you do?

Reduce everything to a series of cat pictures and emojiis.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:51 PM on May 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


I doubt Trump likes cats.
posted by Artw at 4:53 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


that's not what i heard ...
posted by pyramid termite at 4:54 PM on May 15, 2017 [22 favorites]


The TRUMP was crossed out and a "I'm sorry I was wrong" was scrawled below it.

We're all sorry you were wrong.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 4:55 PM on May 15, 2017 [38 favorites]


His actions are not those of a man who loves pussies, rather the contrary.
posted by lydhre at 4:56 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


You know every time I read a quote where a politician says he is "deeply disturbed" or finds something "troubling" I just want to scream and tear my hair out. We passed deeply disturbing and troubling about 6 months ago and we are well into "Shit. Shit. Shit. I can't believe this is happening!!!!!!" Troubling? Hah! I would love to be merely troubled instead of enraged, terrified, exasperated, confused, anxious, sad, and maddened beyond belief.

Trump is really living up to the hype.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:56 PM on May 15, 2017 [30 favorites]


i just have to believe that he's going to do something so stupid, so unmistakably dumb, that even the republicans are going to wonder what the hell is wrong with him
posted by pyramid termite at 4:56 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


We'll know Fox has turned on Trump when they start calling him a Democrat.
posted by drezdn at 4:56 PM on May 15, 2017 [20 favorites]


i just have to believe that he's going to do something so stupid, so unmistakably dumb, that even the republicans are going to wonder what the hell is wrong with him

Well, he could say that he wants to raise taxes on the rich. He'd be out and back in Trump Tower by suppertime.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:59 PM on May 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


You know every time I read a quote where a politician says he is "deeply disturbed" or finds something "troubling" I just want to scream and tear my hair out.

It's the "thoughts and prayers" of this tragedy.
posted by Sophie1 at 5:00 PM on May 15, 2017 [52 favorites]


i just have to believe that he's going to do something so stupid, so unmistakably dumb, that even the republicans are going to wonder what the hell is wrong with him

Which of the unmistakably, undoubtedly and unbelievably dumb things he's done this month do you need me to mention before you admit that this is never going to happen?
posted by howfar at 5:01 PM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


even the republicans are going to wonder what the hell is wrong with him

Oh, they know. They just don't care.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:01 PM on May 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


Current headline for the main Italian newspaper: Trump gives Russians classified information.

They are just reporting on the WaPo story but this thing might have legs. Go, scandal, go!
posted by lydhre at 5:01 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Senator Corker (R-TN) says the White House is "in a downward spiral". Republicans thought they had elected a closer, but it's increasingly clear that he has a head like a hole. You might even call him "Mister Self-Destruct". His is the hand that feeds classified information to the Putin administration, which is something I can never have done because I don't have access to that kind of intel. Could this be the final nine-inch nail in the coffin of this administration's credibility? We're in this together, and in summary, every day is exactly the same, and It's obvious that the intelligence community is hurt.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:02 PM on May 15, 2017 [64 favorites]


I believe there's only two things that can stir Congress into action:

1) A significant incursion into Congressional privilege, separation of powers level.
2) Mass casualty event caused by Trump's decision directly.

Anything less & they'll keep hemming & hawing but not take deliberative action. They've already sold themselves, they're extracting the highest price they can for it.
posted by scalefree at 5:03 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Now is as good a time as any to highlight John Oliver's excellent commentary from yesterday's LWTWJO:

“It is too easy to point at Trump being crazy. That’s what he does, that is not going to stop, and it’s going to be exhausting for everyone. The important question is, what do the rest of us do? And that brings us to Congress — 534 people less annoying that Ted Cruz, and also… Ted Cruz. It is time for each and every one of them to pick a lane here. They do have options...”

“The point is, the founding fathers created a system of checks and balances to limit the power of the president. But it only works if someone fucking checks or balances. And if you don’t, it’s no longer on Trump. It’s on you. Because when you’ve got the presidential equivalent of a five year old shitting on the salad bar of a Ruby Tuesday, at some point you stop blaming the five year old and you start blaming the people who are not stopping him. Stop that boy. That’s what I’m saying. Stop that boy now.

posted by triggerfinger at 5:04 PM on May 15, 2017 [91 favorites]


Meanwhile Breitbart is going with: Deep state leaks highly classified intel to Washington Post to smear President.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:04 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Regarding Sen. John McCain's cowardly non-reaction to the executive betraying intelligence sources to Russian spies diplomats...well, I'd just love to know what the Admirals McCain would have to say.

John S. McCain, Sr.* was a US Navy Admiral in the Pacific Theater during WWII, where he held several commands and pioneered the use of aircraft carriers in combat. He spent the last years of his life fighting a authoritarian, overtly imperial regime.

John S. McCain, Jr.* commanded submarines in the Pacific Theater in WWII. He eventually earned the rank of Admiral and was the Commander-in-Chief in the Pacific Theater during the Vietnam War from 1968-1972. He spent his time in the military fighting the client states of the Soviet Union.

I sure wonder what they would think of John McCain III's debasing himself repeatedly at the feet of a homegrown fascist, while carrying water for the geopolitical successor state of the Soviet Union.

* It's worth noting that Admiral McCain, Jr. sounds especially odious for his support of terrible war/invasion policies in the 60s and 70s. With that said, I can't imagine the dude being such a quisling fuck as his pathetic coward of son.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:06 PM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


I was going to make a Downfall parody, but this is SO not funny.

Yeah. You could basically just use the original captions.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 5:07 PM on May 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


This is going to be one giant mess of a trip.

That's inevitable. Trump can't keep it together when he's talking to a foreign leader on the phone, from the White House; there's no way he'll avoid diplomatic incidents when he's off-leash. And it's not even as if there are any grownups left to hold his hand. It'll be a nightmare.

For me, the worst part of the report was this:
The unnamed Israeli officials were further quoted saying that the Trump team apparently considers “protocol to be merely a recommendation.” This was exemplified, they reportedly said, when the Trump team, at one stage of the preparations, told the Israelis that Trump could call on President Rivlin or visit the Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial, but not both. In the event, the TV report said, Trump will go to the Holocaust museum for just 15 minutes.


Really, dude? I know he doesn't care about any of this, but his nap time is so important that he can't spare time for two photo ops in an afternoon? Yad Vashem is literally 15 minutes' drive from the President of Israel's official residence.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:08 PM on May 15, 2017 [28 favorites]


If I gave Trump and his "administration" any credit, I might think that maybe this story about leaking classified info to Russians was an internal mole hunt. Start a false rumor to find out who in the West Wing is the leak, that sort of thing. But I really don't think they're capable of anything so sophisticated.
posted by wabbittwax at 5:09 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


They've already sold themselves, they're extracting the highest price they can for it.

I mean, are they though? That would seem to be the theroy behind their actions, they sold out literally the entire country in exchange for tax cuts for billionares, but the scandals are so bad, so all encompassing, that they haven't even managed to get that. All they got was a stolen SCOTUS seat so far, and yes, that's huge, but compared to just baseline, replacement level of what they should be able to achieve with majorities in both houses, the presidency, the Court, and a pliant unreliable opposition party desperately eager to agree to anything in the name of bipartisanship? They haven't even managed to repeal Obamacare yet, or taxes, or anything else that can't be undone by a new president.

The republicans made a deal with the devil, but not one where they get to rule the world till death and then burn for eternity, more like a deal with the genie where they wished for "a Republican president", and Jafar said, "your wish is my command, Donald Trump will win the 2016 election".
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:09 PM on May 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


I believe there's only two things that can stir Congress into action:

1) A significant incursion into Congressional privilege, separation of powers level.
2) Mass casualty event caused by Trump's decision directly.


#1 They'll just paper over. It's not an intrusion into Congressional authority if Congress said it's okay! Reports that permission was granted after the offense are fake news.
#2 Would lead to rallying around the flag and the president, no matter how clearly he was at fault. If the people who die were killed by our military (instead of us allowing innocents to die through inaction or blatant stupidity) then they were, ipso facto, Bad People Who Deserved What They Got. This applies even if they were U.S. citizens on American soil at the time, and/or babies.

The only way he loses congressional support is if Congress changes, or he forgets which side his bread is buttered on and starts coming out against tax cuts.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:10 PM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


The question for the administration is this: if the Post had a transcript, why are they being told not to release it? If it's classified, then did Trump declassify it before taking the Russians? If it's not classified, why can't they publish?
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:11 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


I believe the conventional thought is that the WaPo thinks it is in the interest of national security not to leak information.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:13 PM on May 15, 2017 [29 favorites]


It's obvious that the intelligence community is hurt.

Indeed; when they signed up to answer their nation's call they never agreed to bow down before the one they serve. Let's hope he's going to get what he deserves.
posted by nickmark at 5:14 PM on May 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


The Lawfare Blog has just posted a pretty exhaustive look at Trump's leak (no, not that one). In short: it's not criminal but it is a big fucking deal:
Questions of criminality aside, we turn to the far more significant issues: If the President gave this information away through carelessness or neglect, he has arguably breached his oath of office. As Quinta and Ben have elaborated on in some detail, in taking the oath President Trump swore to “faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States” and to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States” to the best of his ability. It’s very hard to argue that carelessly giving away highly sensitive material to an adversary foreign power constitutes a faithful execution of the office of President.

Violating the oath of office does not require violating a criminal statute. If the President decided to write the nuclear codes on a sticky note on his desk and then took a photo of it and tweeted it, he would not technically have violated any criminal law–just as he hasn’t here. He has the constitutional authority to dictate that the safeguarding of nuclear materials shall be done through sticky notes in plain sight and tweeted, even the authority to declassify the codes outright. Yet, we would all understand this degree of negligence to be a gross violation of his oath of office.
But this seems a bit optimistic, considering the Congress we're currently stuck with:
There’s thus no reason why Congress couldn’t consider a grotesque violation of the President’s oath as a standalone basis for impeachment—a high crime and misdemeanor in and of itself. This is particularly plausible in a case like this, where the oath violation involves giving sensitive information to an adversary foreign power. That’s getting relatively close to the “treason” language in the impeachment clauses; it’s pretty easy to imagine a hybrid impeachment article alleging a violation of the oath in service of a hostile foreign power. So legally speaking, the matter could be very grave for Trump even though there is no criminal exposure.
posted by maudlin at 5:17 PM on May 15, 2017 [35 favorites]


Last week's MeFi post: "In what is arguably the most turbulent week of the fledgling Trump Administration..."

Trump, today: " Hold my vodka."
posted by zarq at 5:17 PM on May 15, 2017 [63 favorites]


The question for the administration is this: if the Post had a transcript, why are they being told not to release it? If it's classified, then did Trump declassify it before taking the Russians? If it's not classified, why can't they publish?

Bush/Plame set the precedent. That's the starting point for any discussion of this.
posted by scalefree at 5:18 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


It's obvious that the intelligence community is hurt.

Indeed; when they signed up to answer their nation's call they never agreed to bow down before the one they serve. Let's hope he's going to get what he deserves.


What's frustrating is that a certain stripe of the American electorate loves to see precedent, traditions and institutions broken. It's truly a perfect drug to them.
posted by EatTheWeek at 5:18 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


I believe the conventional thought is that the WaPo thinks it is in the interest of national security not to leak information.

There may also be very specific human lives at stake too--I'm a proponent of government transparency, but it seems likely that the information is so sensitive and current that releasing it could lead very directly to real people being killed.

This situation is awful for so many reasons.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 5:21 PM on May 15, 2017 [18 favorites]


President Pence would not have done this. But perhaps Trump would rather die than give him control? Metaphorically, of course
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:28 PM on May 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


Head like a hole / black as your soul, etc..
posted by Artw at 5:30 PM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


The Lawfare Blog has just posted a pretty exhaustive look at Trump's leak

Thanks for the link. Summary of major points:

"1. First, this is not a question of “leaking classified information” or breaking a criminal law.
2. Second, this is not a garden variety breach, and outrage over it is not partisan hypocrisy about protecting classified information.
3. Third, it is important to understand the nature of sources and methods information in order to fully understand the gravity of the breach.
4. Fourth, it really matters why Trump disclosed this information to Russian visitors.
5. Fifth, this may well be a violation of the President’s oath of office.
6. Sixth, it matters hugely, at least from an atmospheric point of view that the people in the room were Russian and one of them was Sergey Kislyak of all people.
7. Seventh, Trump’s screw-up with the Russians in the Oval Office raises the stakes for whether he records conversations there.
8. Eighth, this episode raises the stakes on the nomination of the FBI Director to replace Comey.
9. Finally, Trump’s alleged screw-up with the Russians reveals yet again what we have learned many times in the last four months: The successful operation of our government assumes a minimally competent Chief Executive that we now lack."
posted by MonkeyToes at 5:33 PM on May 15, 2017 [69 favorites]


Head like a hole / black as your soul, etc..

Bow down before one you serve / you'll get meatloaf like you deserve
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:33 PM on May 15, 2017 [35 favorites]


From Politico:
A former senior Defense Department official in the George W. Bush administration emailed, simply, "WTF!!!!!!!"

"If it were anybody but the Russians you'd think it's sort of juvenile, he's trying to impress them...but because it's the Russians, you've gotta wonder, is this a deliverable? Is he reporting to his case officer?" the same official said in a phone interview.
In other news, Haberman says Trump wants to appoint a new FBI Director before he leaves on his trip this week.
posted by zachlipton at 5:33 PM on May 15, 2017 [29 favorites]


"Is the President reporting to his case officer in the Oval Office?" - terrible spy thriller or 2017?
posted by RedOrGreen at 5:37 PM on May 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


We're actually living in The Americans, season 35 (or whatever).
posted by Justinian at 5:40 PM on May 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


Daily Beast: White House Staff ‘Hiding’ As Russia Chaos Engulfs West Wing
Communications staff and senior staffers at the White House were literally “hiding in offices,” according to a senior Trump aide, as a gaggle of White House press stormed White House hallways just after the Washington Post story broke on Monday evening.
“Do not ask me about how this looks, we all know how this looks,” the senior aide told The Daily Beast on Monday evening. Trump administration officials spoke to The Daily Beast on the condition of anonymity so as to speak freely. The aide described a scene at the White House as tense and “a morgue,” where senior officials such as Sean Spicer, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, and Stephen Bannon convened to sketch an immediate path forward in handling the aftermath.
...
“At this point I’m wondering if we’ll ever be able to stop talking about Russia,” a White House staffer said shortly after the Post story was published. “It’s totally self-inflicted. Every time I feel like we’re getting a handle on the last Russia fiasco, a new one pops.”
...
“With news like this I’m beginning to wonder why Trump ran in the first place and if he really cares about the country,” said a senior Trump appointee involved in counter-ISIS policymaking. “I miss candidate Trump. Now he’s just a pathetic mess.”
Does everyone at the White House just call up the Daily Beast, er, on the daily to let them know what a disaster things are?
posted by zachlipton at 5:41 PM on May 15, 2017 [56 favorites]


“I miss candidate Trump. Now he’s just a pathetic mess.”

I just don't understand how this is a feeling an actual thinking human could have. How did you not know that this is who Trump is? It's been right there, plain to see, for my entire adult life. He's ALWAYS been a pathetic mess. A pathetic mess with money, but a pathetic mess all the same. He has NEVER appeared competent, or intelligent, or as if he cared about anyone other than himself. HOW IS THIS NOT PAINFULLY OBVIOUS???
posted by wabbittwax at 5:46 PM on May 15, 2017 [135 favorites]


Head like a hole / black as your soul, etc..

I gotta say, everytime someone types "Trump's Razor" in these threads, I immediately read it as "Trent Reznor" And when I realize what it really says, I'm v disappointed.
posted by greermahoney at 5:47 PM on May 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


> WaPo: Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador

If the President* Does It, It's Not Illegal. Leakers will keep leaking.
posted by homunculus at 5:47 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


in taking the oath President Trump swore to 'faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States' and to 'preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States' to the best of his ability.

The loophole's right there: "to the best of his ability." He has no ability, so by definition he is doing his best.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:48 PM on May 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


I assume they go to the bathroom in shifts, and instead of taking massive shits or leaks consisting of piss, they use that time to call up any and all news outlets and leak information.

"Where were you?" asks Spicey suspiciously when the staffers return.

"Just taking a leak."
posted by yasaman at 5:48 PM on May 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


HOW IS THIS NOT PAINFULLY OBVIOUS???

Russians covered it up.

(More likely... those big sweeping promises that everyone scoffed at because they were impossible to deliver on? These are the idiots who actually believed in them.)
posted by Artw at 5:49 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Hey so here's a plausible scenario: in the near future the United States suffers a major terrorist attack, a commission is convened to deliver a report identifying the flaws in intelligence which allowed the attack to take place, and the report finds that the attack might have been prevented if only foreign intelligence agencies had been more willing to share anti-terrorist intelligence with the United States. Why, we will ask, might foreign countries have been unwilling to share information with the United States?

The greatest damage here is likely not caused by the specific information revealed to Russia; it is the damage caused to the future effectiveness of global efforts to prevent terrorism. This, in their attempt to get some tax cuts, is what Republicans have achieved.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:53 PM on May 15, 2017 [76 favorites]


omfg you guys Jeffrey Lord is on CNN going on about how IRONIC it is that the WaPo wrote this story because they LEAKED the PENTAGON PAPERS and Steven Spielberg is MAKING A MOVIE ABOUT IT i am not even joking

but his papers
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:56 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Asking in good faith: why are people suggesting that the embedded ISIS spy (whose location was leaked to the Russian ambassador) is in peril? Isn't Russia an enemy of ISIS? What reason would they have to endanger an embedded asset? Or is the implication that the area would be bombed indiscriminately?

(Ethics of the exchange entirely aside, of course.)
posted by archagon at 5:58 PM on May 15, 2017


Hey so here's a plausible scenario: in the near future the United States suffers a major terrorist attack

Given that the information here specifically relates to a threat related to ISIS and laptops on airplanes, this is extremely plausible, yes.
posted by zachlipton at 5:59 PM on May 15, 2017


"sources and methods" DO NOT MATTER. IF THE THING IS CLASSIFIED, IT IS CLASSIFIED.
a) does the individual have a need to know?
b) does the individual have a clearance for the information?

omfg these guidelines and the statutes are public, published, and mostly online. c'mon press! wtf? do your homework.
posted by j_curiouser at 6:00 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Russia is an enemy of ISIS only in so far as damaging ISIS is helpful to Assad. One can imagine a scenario where the presence of ISIS could be helpful to Assad in undermining the secular opposition.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:00 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Isn't Russia an enemy of ISIS? What reason would they have to endanger an embedded asset?

Remember, Putin's goal is to destabilize the US, not to help Trump. He'd happily radio the information to the appropriate people to get the asset killed, and make sure that someone found out about it, to make Trump look bad.
posted by 0xFCAF at 6:01 PM on May 15, 2017 [34 favorites]


Asking in good faith: why are people suggesting that the embedded ISIS spy (whose location was leaked to the Russian ambassador) is in peril? Isn't Russia an enemy of ISIS? What reason would they have to endanger an embedded asset?

Yeah, that's not really a good picture of what happened. A source isn't an "embedded ISIS spy", it's a whole chain of people, many (well, probably most) of which have no loyalty to ISIS. Information doesn't flow directly from ISIS spies to the president.
posted by Quonab at 6:03 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Article III, Section 3 of the United States Constitution reads as follow(emphasis mine):
Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying War against, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
So...does "Witness to the same overt Act" mean "witnessing the treason firsthand" or "party to the same conspiracy to commit treason"?

Just asking because if its the former, it sure seems like there were multiple witnesses to this foolish disclosure...On the other hand, if the Jackass were put under oath in front of Congress or in Open Court, he'd probably just (un?)wittingly confess.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 6:04 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Does everyone at the White House just call up the Daily Beast, er, on the daily to let them know what a disaster things are?

At least three anonymous White House sources in that piece, by my count: "senior Trump aide", "White House staffer", and "senior White House official"...
The official, who is familiar with Trump’s thinking on these matters, said it will exacerbate “his animus and suspicion towards ‘Deep State’” and Obama-holdover actors
...who's gotta be Bannon, surely?
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 6:04 PM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Russia would happily disrupt people higher in that chain.
posted by Quonab at 6:05 PM on May 15, 2017


he'd probably just (un?)wittingly confess.

"I commit the best treason, really, really great treason, that I can tell you."
posted by spitbull at 6:06 PM on May 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


John Podhoretz in Commentary (full quote, no need to click the link):
If the tale as we have been told it thus far is not misleading or incomplete, we’ve just heard what is unquestionably the worst story yet about Donald Trump and his actions and behavior as president. Both the Washington Post and Buzzfeed are reporting that last week Trump revealed intelligence of the most highly sensitive nature to the Russian Foreign Minister in the Oval Office. That intel, it is said, was gathered by a foreign service and shared with us. Its revelation to untrustworthy actors is extraordinarily dangerous.
posted by maudlin at 6:06 PM on May 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


I so desperately want this to be the dam finally breaking. The President needs to do a perp walk.
posted by Donald Trump Sex Nightmare at 6:07 PM on May 15, 2017 [30 favorites]


Those assets should now be considered burned. As in useless, not likely to return good intel, probably likely to be rolled up and executed or used in a move against us at any time.

Of course with all the Russian spies Trump has had running around the white house probably all assets should be considered burned.
posted by Artw at 6:07 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


and Obama-holdover actors

...by which they mean the entirety of the professional government staff, many if not most of whom have been in place since W or before.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:07 PM on May 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


Trump supporters will just call this Fake News and say WaPo, NYT, and the rest are simply anti-Trump liberal rags.
posted by Justinian at 6:08 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


The story that came out tonight, as reported, is false

I can't wait till they start denying things Russian-style: "This story does not correspond to reality."
posted by Kabanos at 6:08 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


HOW IS THIS NOT PAINFULLY OBVIOUS???

I too still can't get past this general sentiment. What is there in Donald Trump's past as a highly visible public persona that leads one to the conclusion that he's a serious person? I think that's where everything went wrong for me: where I improperly imposed my reality filter onto others. I've looked at DJT over the years (though as little as possible), and all the way through I've concluded, "This guy's an idiot carnival barker at the Circus of Sad." And where I thought people diverged from my distaste was simply that they enjoyed the Circus of Sad, where I do not.

Instead, it turns out that people actually think he's a Master Orchestrator at the Circus of Serious. People believed a hype that's inconceivable to me, given how obviously transparent it is as a sham. Trump has never shown any indication that he actually knows anything outside of wheeling and dealing for his own self interest. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF THIS OTHER THAN HIS SAY-SO.

I simply can't get over how his supporters—the ones without ulterior motives—can act on such a shocking lack of information. It's the one thing that's more frightening to me than Trump himself.
posted by Brak at 6:08 PM on May 15, 2017 [66 favorites]


What someone did to this Ivanka book display is pretty great (facebook link).
posted by triggerfinger at 6:11 PM on May 15, 2017 [34 favorites]


A little thread by @alanfeuer:
A thought on the president's apparent impulsiveness and braggadocio concerning the release of classified information.
While reporting a pre-election story, a business associate of Trump's said he was once at a meeting with Goldman bankers re the Plaza Hotel
Trump owned the hotel at the time. The Goldman guys were pumping him for proprietary info in a way suggesting they were interested in it.
The associate kicked Trump under the table, indicating that he ought not discuss such information so cavalierly.
Trump's response was to look at his associate and say, "Abe, why the hell are you kicking me under the table?"
Disclaimer: the same thing once happened to me with my parents. I was maybe 6.
posted by zachlipton at 6:13 PM on May 15, 2017 [41 favorites]


archagon: "why are people suggesting that the embedded ISIS spy (whose location was leaked to the Russian ambassador) is in peril?"

Maybe some are. However, the various commentators I've been following on Twitter are pointing out that the bigger problem isn't necessarily this particular inadvertent disclosure (lol) of this specific piece of intel. Rather, the key thing to this whole shenanigan is that this piece of intel didn't originate from US agencies -- it was part of an intelligence sharing arrangement with another country (my guesses are probably UK or Israel but who knows). The fact is that it has now been more or less conclusively demonstrated that it is no longer safe to share stuff with the US because the Commander in Chief has the impulse control of a toddler hopped up on Froot Loops and the rest of the intelligence establishment has not figured out how to child-proof the Oval Office.
posted by mhum at 6:13 PM on May 15, 2017 [21 favorites]


England or France needs to announce that they are not going to share intelligence with the United States inasmuch as it endangers their field assets.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:13 PM on May 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


Instead, it turns out that people actually think he's a Master Orchestrator at the Circus of Serious.

God, this. I feel like I'm watching half the country chow down on bowls full of broken glass.

Broken glass, doesn't that cut your mouth? And it tastes like nothing? It's super dangerous to eat, right?

Then the glass-eaters all chime in like "Broken glass is the tastiest, healthiest thing ever and if you weren't in a bubble you'd realize it too". But they say this while their mouths are spewing blood and people are passing out left and right.
posted by 0xFCAF at 6:14 PM on May 15, 2017 [68 favorites]


So, when's the presidential tweet due? 3 am rage or 6:30 am morning show fallout?
posted by lydhre at 6:14 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


I sure hope someone's been keeping a list of impeachable offenses Trump has committed because I cannot keep track.
posted by ckape at 6:16 PM on May 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


two little comments and i'll take a break
1) does this mean snowden and manning get a pass for all elements that do not discuss methods and sources? clearly no. that illustrates the emptiness of the statement.
2) ”I really want reporters to ask Republicans what would be a step to far for Trump." there is no step too far. he is their king (ceo) and rules by divine right with fiat power. if the potus does it, it's not illegal. they have historic precedent.
posted by j_curiouser at 6:17 PM on May 15, 2017


impeachable offenses

The only limit is really what the House considers impeachable. They could impeach Trump for drinking Coke instead of Pepsi. Something needs to happen where the majority of the House (or, under the Hastert rule, the majority of the GOP reps) thinks that keeping Trump is a bigger political liability than staying on the Trump train. Your guess as to what that is is as good as mine.
posted by dhens at 6:19 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


lydhre: "So, when's the presidential tweet due? 3 am rage or 6:30 am morning show fallout?"

Oh god. I'm imagining a tweet that goes something like "Washington Post story is Fake news. I never said the source was in Aleppo! Plus there are so many shoemakers in Aleppo it would be impossible to find him." [fake, for now]
posted by mhum at 6:21 PM on May 15, 2017 [19 favorites]


Something needs to happen where the majority of the House (or, under the Hastert rule, the majority of the GOP reps)

If a majority of the House would vote for it you could use a discharge position to bypass the Speaker.
posted by Justinian at 6:21 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Hastert rule

ITYM Hastert prerogative. It's not a rule, just something some child molester made up because he could.
posted by ckape at 6:22 PM on May 15, 2017 [19 favorites]


God, this. I feel like I'm watching half the country chow down on bowls full of broken glass.

If you really want to get into experience, go to reddit.com/r/the_donald and dive in to the cesspool of self-contradictory mental gymnastics.

It was bad before the election, but now it's just excruciating watching people try to convince themselves that all of this hoopla is fake news, that the slightly less bleak economic landscape is all Trump's doing and not the residual aftermath of Obama's last two terms and how often you see the words freedom, democracy and God-Emperor Trump in the same breath... I could go on but I won't because it's depressingly predictable.

If you can stomach it, I do recommend strategically paying attention to what they're saying, because it's pretty fucked up and some of it needs to be dragged kicking and screaming into the light.
posted by loquacious at 6:23 PM on May 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


The NYT story has been updated with this:
Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and adviser, signaled to people outside the White House that he was not closely involved. But internally, Mr. Kushner lashed out at Mr. Spicer, who has been the target of most of his ire since the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, was fired last week.
Bahahahahaha. Does Jared really go "oh look, something bad has happened. Better start calling reporters to let them know it's still not my fault because I'm the good one?" What a joke.
posted by zachlipton at 6:23 PM on May 15, 2017 [38 favorites]


It's not a rule, just something some child molester made up because he could.

And the Republican party kept abiding by the child molester's rule even after he was convicted of molesting children.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:24 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


If you can stomach it, I do recommend strategically paying attention to what they're saying, because it's pretty fucked up and some of it needs to be dragged kicking and screaming into the light.

Or wait a couple hours and see the exact same arguments word for word from Sean Spicer. Or worse yet from McMaster and Mattis.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:25 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


he is their king (ceo) and rules by divine right with fiat power.

It's not even that. It's all just political calculation to them.
  1. They see no danger to their poll numbers in their gerrymandered districts under current circumstances, meaning that by doing nothing they'll still get re-elected.
  2. If they take action, given that it's an R president in the spotlight, such action is likely to hurt the overall Republican brand, and by extension filter into their own brand and chances for re-election.
So: do nothing, get re-elected. Do what you should, possibly hurt your chances of re-election.

If there's one takeaway from congressional Republican behavior over these past decades, it's that nothing matters beyond maintaining power, which means getting re-elected. Their actual responsibilities as representatives are not otherwise enforceable by any means.
posted by Brak at 6:26 PM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


I feel like Trump is just the apotheosis of my entire life of klaxons in my own head going off about the not-goodness of people that everyone else is like, "Oh yeah, totally a nice guy, for sure, nothing off about him whatsoever."
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:27 PM on May 15, 2017 [20 favorites]


Any good novel or screenplay that includes a villain will have at least one scene that humanizes the villain (saving the drowning kitty moment). I was reminded of that when I saw the story about Putin playing the piano while waiting for something something in China, and it made me realize I've never come across anything that humanizes Trump. He has never done anything to make him a three-dimensional human character.
posted by perhapses at 6:29 PM on May 15, 2017 [28 favorites]


Am I right in saying that the President has the legal authority to reveal classified information to anyone? So this will just be a political scandal rather than a legal issue.

Well, yeah, but it's a humdinger of a political scandal. Trump's big mouth will almost certainly cost lives. Trump compromised the national security of the United States to the Russians -- you know, the ones he is mad that people are investigating his ties to -- in order to brag.

I know "surely, this" is a cliche, but if Congressional Republicans don't take Trump's unfitness for office seriously over this, then it's time for Democrats to realize that the entire party is unfit to govern and refuse to cooperate with them, over anything at all. It's time, at long last, for Republican politicians to stand up and be counted -- are their loyalties with their party, or their country?
posted by Gelatin at 6:29 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


NY Daily News front page for tomorrow: Leaker of the Free World.
posted by maudlin at 6:30 PM on May 15, 2017 [32 favorites]


I simply can't get over how his supporters—the ones without ulterior motives—can act on such a shocking lack of information. It's the one thing that's more frightening to me than Trump himself.

I'm not anywhere near as upset about Trump as the fact that so many people voted for him. That's the problem.

I used to believe the universe bends toward justice but more and more I think that a) there is no reason for this to be so and b) there is no evidence that this is so. If the universe ever bends toward justice, it does so only in isolated local instances, for brief periods of time, and only through the sheer determination of a large number of active participants. It's dangerously naive to assume otherwise.


I don't think the universe bends toward anything. I do think there's something in people that will always fuck things up, and there are people that will try and make things better. The tricky part is I don't think it's all malice, it's just impulse. Like when a kid builds something out of blocks that kid, or some other kid, will always knock it down immediately. Always. If we could magically have a perfectly functioning and fair world it wouldn't last a week.

We will always be pushing that rock up the hill.
posted by bongo_x at 6:30 PM on May 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


What's the basis for believing that valuable sources and methods have been compromised by Trump's bragging in this case? Passengers' laptop usage had already been restricted prior to the revelation, so what other information is he known to have revealed?

Also what's the basis for believing it's a real threat? I first heard the laptop-as-bomb scenario 15 years ago. Surely there have been ISIS LARPers blowing smoke about the idea since then. Maybe this is like that supposed liquid explosive threat which means we now have to pack our liquids in 100mL containers, etc.?
posted by Coventry at 6:30 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Apologies if these are naive questions; I have been a bit out of the loop.
posted by Coventry at 6:31 PM on May 15, 2017


it made me realize I've never come across anything that humanizes Trump. He has never done anything to make him a three-dimensional human character.

That's what he has Ivanka for. I'm not being glib; his primary argument for why he's a good person is how great his daughter is.
posted by zachlipton at 6:31 PM on May 15, 2017 [22 favorites]


Okay, so Mefi and food and politics.... If anyone in the GOP suffers any consequences directly tied to this disclosure of classified material to the Russians, by Trump, in the Oval Office; i will make and consume an entire batch of those BUTTER EMAILS cookies. ( Will printing the Wikileaks disclosures suffice? )

This is definitely going to go on the pile of things that doesn't count if you're a Republican.

C'mon, karma.. Make me eat some cookies.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:32 PM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Aaaaaand my once Facebook friend who I thought could possibly be a Trump person (my former Pilates instructor, who never posts about politics but does post about gratitude and God a fair amount) just liked something that was like "when is this guy going to be impeached already?" So yeah, there's that, although for all I know she's quietly been Team Bernie since 2015.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:32 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Now is a good time to remember that a main part of the Democratic case in the election last year was that Donald Trump is unfit to be President.

Now is a good time to remind the media of that fact, as well.
posted by Gelatin at 6:32 PM on May 15, 2017 [36 favorites]


He has never done anything to make him a three-dimensional human character.

The day of the inauguration, a Trumpist relative of mine posted a video showing Trump mouthing the lyrics to Lee Greenwood's "God Bless the USA." It was accompanied with lots of hoopla about how this shows his "raw patriotism" and "humanity" and that watching it will give you "chills."

Example One
Example Two

And I remember thinking, "man, this is really scraping the bottom of the barrel."
posted by dhens at 6:33 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm not being glib; his primary argument for why he's a good person is how great his daughter is.
Which is so weird, because I'm 95% sure she actually is a Cylon. I'm not being glib, either: would anyone be super surprised if it turned out that she was actually a remarkably life-like robot?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:34 PM on May 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


I've been thinking about how Watergate unfolded, and it's fascinating to see this happening in real time. The cold war espionage drama, The Americans, is set in the early 80s, and so much could only take place in a time before CCTV and security cameras everywhere and limited means of communication.

Trump is still living in the 80s, and while he may tweet obsessively, he really doesn't understand how the world works anymore, that people can check his tweets from five years ago, that they can instantly fact-check him, and where "prove it" was not an unreasonable defense.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:36 PM on May 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


What's the basis for believing that valuable sources and methods have been compromised by Trump's bragging in this case? Passengers' laptop usage had already been restricted prior to the revelation, so what other information is he known to have revealed?

Coventry: Based on the Post report, the information is something specific about the threat that was provided to us by a friendly intelligence service; it wasn't our information to share. It would seem to be far more detailed than "ISIS wants to blow up a plane with a laptop"; the Post discusses how Trump revealed that the information came from a specific city under ISIS's control. That's a super-specific detail about an intelligence source.

In addition, as the Times report notes, the information was provided by a Middle Eastern ally:
In fact, the ally has repeatedly warned American officials that it would cut off access to such sensitive information if it were shared too widely, the former official said. In this case, the fear is that Russia will be able to determine exactly how the information was collected and could disrupt the ally’s espionage efforts.
In other words, the contention is that, whether or not revealing the information is dangerous in and of itself, revealing it and causing that ally to never trust us again is extremely dangerous.

If you want to play "which country was it?" bingo, note that Trump spoke to Egyptian President al-Sisi today. My bet, total speculation here, is that it was information from Egypt's intelligence service.
posted by zachlipton at 6:39 PM on May 15, 2017 [36 favorites]


Mixed in with my rage and fear and discomfort over this latest bullshit is profound pissiness over the fact that it has completely overshadowed the thrilling thirdhand Brush with Greatness anecdote I was so excited to come home and share with you-all tonight.

Namely: one of my coworkers has a friend who flies about the east coast for work a lot and who [ahem] has seen threadfave Lawrence O'Donnell up close and personal at airport gates two or three times in the past few months. She even got a (bad angle) pic of him at LaGuardia or Kennedy today, and we were all Tiger-Beat-squealing over it this afternoon.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:44 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Whoa. This may have been linked earlier, but this 1988 interview (with Oprah!) shows Trump hitting a lot of the same points that he does today, but in fast, fluent, complete sentences that actually hang together. It doesn't reflect any deep thinking and is typical politicianese, but the difference between that Trump and current Trump is striking.

(Don't read the comments. Really.)
posted by maudlin at 6:46 PM on May 15, 2017 [20 favorites]


Fun little thought experiment: Imagine that President Hillary Clinton leaked classified information to some Middle Eastern monarch who had previously been a major donor to the Clinton Foundation. Would you be able to hear anything over the raw howls of blood-lust coming from every right-of-center person in the United States?
posted by dhens at 6:48 PM on May 15, 2017 [50 favorites]


(I know that this is just a three minute segment on politics. If he had to speak at length and more detail in 1988, I think he probably would have started sputtering and repeating himself some more, but he probably would still sound better than he does in any interview he's been in over the past few years.)
posted by maudlin at 6:49 PM on May 15, 2017


Lindsey Graham shared the WaPo "TrumpLeaks" article on Facebook with this comment:

"I have no idea if it's true. If it is, it would be very troubling."


Well, guess what, sunshine, the Post's White house sources didn't even bother to deny it happened; they're only working to contain the damage.

So, you know, there's that. Troubling, yeah.
posted by Gelatin at 6:52 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Haley Byrd: "Dianne Feinstein exits Senate subway and is surrounded by reporters. "Oh my goodness. What's happened?" (She hasn't seen the WaPo story.)"
posted by gwint at 6:57 PM on May 15, 2017 [33 favorites]


Apologies if these are naive questions; I have been a bit out of the loop.

It's OK, you can admit it now -- you're Sean Spicer, right?
posted by neroli at 6:58 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


maudlin: "This may have been linked earlier, but this 1988 interview (with Oprah!) shows Trump hitting a lot of the same points that he does today, but in fast, fluent, complete sentences that actually hang together."

My go-to for old Trump was this Letterman interview (also from 1988). He was always kind of a know-nothing blowhard but his speech patterns have definitely changed. When they (the remaining humans or the super-intelligent mutant mole-people or whoever) write the history of this era, they'll surely remark on how incredible it was that Trump's very obvious senility wasn't more of an issue.
posted by mhum at 6:59 PM on May 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


It's just unthinkable how much damage Trump has done to the status of the US as a world power over the last 4 months. It is hard to imagine how much weaker US espionage programmes are today than they were a few weeks ago. The country is haemorrhaging hard and soft power from Trump's mouth and the GOP is doing nothing to stop it. Unbelievable.

On the bright side, he uses the phrase "radical Islamic terrorism," so...no, wait, that makes our position weaker too, doesn't it?
posted by Gelatin at 7:03 PM on May 15, 2017




"PAY TRUMP BRIBES HERE" currently being projected on the front of Trump International Hotel in D.C. (sltwitter)
posted by Sophie1 at 7:06 PM on May 15, 2017 [97 favorites]


If you were in charge of giving Trump his security briefing tomorrow, what the hell do you do?

"Nothing to report, Mr President. Everything's great!"
posted by Talez at 7:07 PM on May 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


> If you want to play "which country was it?" bingo, note that Trump spoke to Egyptian President al-Sisi today. My bet, total speculation here, is that it was information from Egypt's intelligence service.

But the leak took place last week, so it couldn't have involved any info from today's call. Or are you suggesting that today's call was a tongue-lashing from Egypt about the compromise?
posted by Westringia F. at 7:08 PM on May 15, 2017


how incredible it was that Trump's very obvious senility wasn't more of an issue.
The guy appeals to the large cohort of greying baby boomers who are themselves losing their marbles. If you've had an elderly liberal parent turn into a Fox zombie it makes sense.
posted by benzenedream at 7:09 PM on May 15, 2017 [26 favorites]


Tweet storm on this with focus on implications for US allies, including Canada...Canada is heavily dependent on US intelligence for its own security. We exchange information, lawfully, with 5 eyes countries EVERY DAY. We are now in a situation where we can be sure our, UK, AUS, NZ intel is at risk of being shared with other countries, especially Russia. Effectively, Trump’s actions have thrown world’s most important intel sharing relationship into doubt at best, serious jeopardy at worst. Not only is Putin getting classified info, his useful idiot, Trump, is disrupting one of the most powerful weapons we have against him
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:10 PM on May 15, 2017 [44 favorites]


This may have been linked earlier, but this 1988 interview (with Oprah!) shows Trump hitting a lot of the same points that he does today, but in fast, fluent, complete sentences that actually hang together.

The people speculating that he's in the throes of some serious neurological disorder really are going on a bit more than "he's so dumb, nobody could be that dumb unless there were something wrong with his brain". Looking at pretty much any non-canned speech by him in the past year versus a speech under similar circumstances, say, 10 years ago, the extent to which his language fluency has degraded is striking.
posted by jackbishop at 7:10 PM on May 15, 2017 [21 favorites]


"PAY TRUMP BRIBES HERE" currently being projected on the front of Trump International Hotel in D.C.

Outstanding work, fellows.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:11 PM on May 15, 2017 [33 favorites]


I wonder if the inadvertently revealed secret had to do with the specific innovation (a rare explosive or catalyst etc.) in laptop bomb-making that triggered the laptop ban. That alone could be triangulated with other info to reveal a source.

And guys, guys .... we may be hitting peak "surely this!"
posted by spitbull at 7:13 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


If Vice President Mike Pence had done this, he could _go to jail_. This should clarify whether this is a serious matter, regardless of prima facie technical legality.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:14 PM on May 15, 2017 [13 favorites]


I'm sure if Trump started pushing for higher taxes on the rich or making sure everyone had healthcare then Paul Ryan would start talking impeachment.
posted by ckape at 7:15 PM on May 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


And guys, guys .... we may be hitting peak "surely this!"

I keep checking, but surelythis.com hasn't been updated since the Access Hollywood tape was dropped.
posted by peeedro at 7:16 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm eager to hear NPR's Mara Liasson's take on whether it's delusional to think we're in a constitutional crisis
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:16 PM on May 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


Have we heard ... Surely This ... yet this evening?
posted by Dashy at 7:16 PM on May 15, 2017


(damnit, spitbull, I didn't preview!)
posted by Dashy at 7:17 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


If the information is about ISIS, I would bet it came from Jordan.
posted by My Dad at 7:18 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


NY Daily News front page for tomorrow: Leaker of the Free World.

Looks like the Republicans may have lost New York City
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:18 PM on May 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Experienced bothsidesers already know how to play this: Yes, it appears Trump divulged highly classified information to foreign officials. But let's not forget that Obama often talked about classified information in certain settings, and also spoke to foreign officials, although not at the same time as far as we know. So really Trump's predecessors paved the way for this, and in a way set a precedent that this may be "the new normal" in our hyperpartisan culture.
posted by 0xFCAF at 7:20 PM on May 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


That's what he has Ivanka for. I'm not being glib; his primary argument for why he's a good person is how great his daughter is.

Remember in the debate when Hillary was asked to say something nice about Trump, and she said he loved his kids. (Perhaps a little too much, she didn't add)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:20 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Have we heard ... Surely This ... yet this evening?

We surely have...

But nothing matters to Republicans, absolutely nothing at all. And so until they are gone nothing will happen.

But once that changes here's hoping there's some consequences, because these motherfuckers need to go jail.
posted by Artw at 7:20 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


HOW IS THIS NOT PAINFULLY OBVIOUS???

This - *Price-is-Right handflip* - is a television. Its powers are bigly.

Are we not entertained?!?
posted by petebest at 7:21 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


*checks favorites*
Yep, Surely This is in the thread tonight.
posted by zachlipton at 7:23 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


And amid all htis, 45 himself is remarkably absent. Perhaps he's having a nap.

Not only is Putin getting classified info, his useful idiot, Trump, is disrupting one of the most powerful weapons we have against him

Snowden threw some light onto Western intelligence's alliances and MOI, profoundly embarrassed the spooks and doubtless focussing the minds of our enemies on things we'd rather they didn't worry about. On the other hand, his revelations catalysed better regulation and a discussion about the whys and whats that needed to happen.

But nothing he did threatened the entire structure of Western intelligence.
posted by Devonian at 7:23 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


And guys, guys .... we may be hitting peak "surely this!"

Trump's "surely this" peak is like the oil price in the mid 2000s. It keeps going up and people still keep telling us we better get used to new record highs.

And things will only change with major economic collapse...
posted by Talez at 7:23 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


Remember Jim Comey?
posted by spitbull at 7:31 PM on May 15, 2017 [57 favorites]


Sally Yates testified a week ago. It feels like at least an entire geologic era.
posted by zachlipton at 7:32 PM on May 15, 2017 [109 favorites]


In a parallel universe, we've spent the last month discussing whether President Clinton is being weak on North Korea
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:33 PM on May 15, 2017 [34 favorites]


James who? Coney? Didn't he invent a hot dog island or something?
posted by loquacious at 7:34 PM on May 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


Perhaps he's having a nap.

So, as the parent of a 4-year-old I feel like I have some unique insight into the life of the West Wing senior staff. (And seriously, my crazy hyperactive kid has better impulse control than this grown-ass man.) I'm guessing tonight has featured at least one tantrum, and no fewer than 5 aides forming a circle around him all telling him that his big feelings are all very valid and normal, and that as soon as he is better in control they can have some ice cream and watch a movie, he can totally have two scoops, because big boys who can control their behavior even when they're having mad feelings definitely deserve ice cream.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:34 PM on May 15, 2017 [47 favorites]


In a parallel universe, we've spent the last month discussing whether President Clinton is being weak on North Korea

Did you find a parallel universe where we swept house and senate because in the not-so-darkest-timeline the email server investigation just entered its fourth month.
posted by Talez at 7:34 PM on May 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


Like, should Bannon be considering a sticker chart right about now? Every day without a new scandal and Donnie can put a sticker on the chart. After 10 stickers, he can buy a new toy!
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:36 PM on May 15, 2017 [23 favorites]


fast, fluent, complete sentences that actually hang together...the difference between that Trump and current Trump is striking.

I disagree. I grew up in the NY area and I've been listening to his garbage for 40 years. I really have yet to see an appreciable difference. He had few facts then, he has few facts now. He resorted to vague superlatives and negatives then, he resorts to vague superlatives and negatives now. I don't doubt that he has something wrong with his brain, but whatever it is, it's not especially new. He's never been smart, smooth, clear, or fluid. He's always had those bizarro speech patterns. If you doubt it, watch that documentary I linked (way) above.
posted by Miko at 7:40 PM on May 15, 2017 [15 favorites]


Donald is storming the darkened west wing in his bathrobe screaming at whoever hid his phone and muttering "Goddamit Kellyanne you are so fired!"
posted by spitbull at 7:43 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Sally Yates testified a week ago. It feels like at least an entire geologic era.

She'll be on Anderson Cooper tomorrow at 8:00 if anybody wants to relive the good ol' days of yesteryear.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:43 PM on May 15, 2017 [8 favorites]


After 10 stickers, he can buy a new toy!

I'm not sure we can afford another aircraft carrier.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:43 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm not sure we can afford another aircraft carrier.

If we use "the steam" we can cut corners.
posted by dhens at 7:46 PM on May 15, 2017 [18 favorites]


This is like that Twilight Zone episode with the omnipotent little boy.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 7:46 PM on May 15, 2017 [19 favorites]


I think 10 stickers us too much. That's more expert level. 3 would be a good first goal. After that 5 then a stretch goal of 7.
posted by Jalliah at 7:47 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Politico: Trump's handling of classified info brings new chaos to White House: "He doesn't really know any boundaries. He doesn't think in those terms," this adviser said. "He doesn't sometimes realize the implications of what he's saying. I don't think it was his intention in any way to share any classified information. He wouldn't want to do that."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:48 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


Sally Yates testified a week ago.

And she was great and kicked some ass, even if we are experience time in dog years now and it seems so long ago. Heck, we're experiencing time in fly years now.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:49 PM on May 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


In a parallel universe, we've spent the last month discussing whether President Clinton is being weak on North Korea

In a parallel universe we've spent the last week debating whether or not the President was too effusive/not effusive enough at the elementary school she visited. I wish I were there.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:49 PM on May 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


I'm having flashbacks to potty training :\
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:49 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


btw, this shit is still happening, in case you were distracted by the firing and leaking.
Police Officer, Combat Veteran, Muslim and J.F.K. Detainee

Syed Ali is an American citizen, an officer in the New York Police Department, a combat veteran and a major in the United States Army Reserve. But none of that made a difference at passport control last month when he arrived at Kennedy Airport on an evening flight from Istanbul.

After landing, Officer Ali was led from passport control to a holding area for what Customs and Border Protection refers to as secondary screening. But instead of a quick check to confirm his identity, Officer Ali said, he was held for hours, past midnight. When he asked, after more than an hour of waiting, whether it would take much longer, an officer threatened to incarcerate him, he said.

“If you can’t sit patiently, I can gain compliance from you by putting you in a detainment cell,” he recalled a Customs and Border Protection officer’s telling him.
[...]
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:54 PM on May 15, 2017 [77 favorites]


I have no mouth and I must scream
posted by corb at 7:58 PM on May 15, 2017 [24 favorites]


Can you impeach members of the House? That seems to be the only way we'll be able to get this dangerously senile old man out of the oval office.
posted by heathkit at 7:58 PM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


You can vote in 2018.
posted by Justinian at 8:03 PM on May 15, 2017 [20 favorites]


I have no mouth and I must scream

It's the AM presidency and we're all livin' in Trump's vast and sadistic innards.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:03 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


The math on this goes like this. You get a hundred reports of possible dangers/attacks and they each are marginal intelligence: rumor, I heard, etc.
These can go into the pool of information and can be evaluated. While each individual piece of intelligence is of limited importance to defining a danger, the total flow of intelligence is crucial. However, each individual bit of intelligence, if leaked, can jeopardize the source. By leaking you ultimately put at risk the flow.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:04 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


In a parallel universe, we've spent the last month discussing whether President Clinton is being weak on North Korea

Did you find a parallel universe where we swept house and senate because in the not-so-darkest-timeline the email server investigation just entered its fourth month.


In that universe, Clinton was impeached on January 27th over emails, and after 4 months of hearings in the House the Senate has just started removal proceedings. No Clinton appointees have been confirmed, and there's a looming shutdown crisis as a short term resolution is about to expire.

Every elected Republican says the Supreme Court can function with eight members.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:07 PM on May 15, 2017 [38 favorites]


So the intel story seems to have been independently reported by:

Washington Post (first to report story)
New York Times
CNN
Wall Street Journal

We can't know if they're all basing their stories on the same source(s), but they were all confident enough to report on the story without just relying on the info from other paper's reporting.
posted by gwint at 8:07 PM on May 15, 2017 [19 favorites]


Can you impeach members of the House?

Technically yes, but the it is still only the House that can do impeaching, so you're back where you started.
posted by ckape at 8:07 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Did you find a parallel universe...

Stop... stop shitting on my fantasies... everything else has already been shat on, they are all I ha-a-a-ave...
posted by Behemoth at 8:09 PM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


On MSNBC, Jeremy Bash just remarked that the way IC professionals recruit assets is by assuring them that a) their lives will be protected and b) the info they provide is so important that it will land directly on the President's desk. Only now if they buy b) it'll make it impossible to believe a).
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:11 PM on May 15, 2017 [50 favorites]


> "I don't think it was his intention in any way to share any classified information. He wouldn't want to do that."

and

> I'm having flashbacks to potty training :\

make a nice pair of thematically-related statements.
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:13 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Republican crickets tonight are deafening on the news shows. I have no real faith but this does seem like a final "Surely this" moment. If this doesn't do it then nothing will. Tomorrow will either be interesting or will gut the last shred of hope I have hollowed away in some tiny corner of my soul.
posted by gatorae at 8:22 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]




America is compromised from the top down, so can offer protection to precisely zero sources.
posted by Artw at 8:23 PM on May 15, 2017 [7 favorites]


Think about McMaster for a second. This is a guy who made his reputation as a military academic based off a book about military leaders failing to stand up to what he saw as illegitimate orders from civilian leadership.

And now he's lying for Trump.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:23 PM on May 15, 2017 [67 favorites]


If he wasn't going to lie for Trump he wouldn't have taken the job.
posted by Artw at 8:36 PM on May 15, 2017 [6 favorites]


mcmaster did swear a loyalty oath to his master, if i recall correctly
posted by localhuman at 8:39 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


He is now McThrall.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:44 PM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]


I mean, can you really tell any of the Nazgul apart
posted by theodolite at 8:52 PM on May 15, 2017 [17 favorites]


from much earlier today, when we were so much more innocent:

Are Republican Senators Really "Pulling Away from Trump"?

how bout now
posted by murphy slaw at 8:53 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


I keep going back to the quick n' dirty analysis on lawfareblog (linked above). In particular: "...this may well be a violation of the President’s oath of office. [...] in taking the oath President Trump swore to “faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States” and to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States” to the best of his ability [emphasis mine]. It’s very hard to argue that carelessly giving away highly sensitive material to an adversary foreign power constitutes a faithful execution of the office of President."

It's never good when your best legal defence is that you're a dumbass. You may have done certain things, but it was the best you could do, because you're a dumbass.

Did Donald break his oath? Or did he perform his duties 'to the best of his ability'? Offhand, were I Donald's counsel (perish the thought) (or maybe that should be 'council'), the most obvious defence would be to say that he indeed performed to the best of his ability, but that ability is pretty limited and not what we would hope for, but what can you do?

Not a winner of an argument, to be sure, but it could be enough to escape consequences other than derision and ignominy. But I'm getting ahead of myself...
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:54 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


This gave me a chuckle (from an r/politics thread, after someone posted Trump's "Clinton was careless... NOT FIT!" tweet from last July);

"Jesus, there really is an old Trump tweet for everything! He's like the xkcd of treasonous shitposting."
posted by spitbull at 8:57 PM on May 15, 2017 [90 favorites]


i would watch a loop of administration lawyers arguing that trump did not violate his oath because he's just too dumb to do any better for days
posted by murphy slaw at 8:59 PM on May 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


This thread, heralded as the "new" POTUS45 thread a mere three days ago, is already over 1700 comments. A new one will surely be needed within another 24 hours. Someone will make it, and it will be welcomed as the "new" thread at the time and everyone will be happy for the respite on their mobile devices and for the reset of the conversation. After all, Excommunicated Cardinal started this thread off by essentially saying "whoa, a lot has happened in the last week, but the really important news is that Trump fired James Comey!!!" Neither the Cardinal nor any of us could predict at the time what would happen in the course of this "new" thread.

What I'm getting around to, I guess, is: any interest in a prize for the MeFite who posts the thread in which he finally does get removed from office?
posted by yhbc at 9:00 PM on May 15, 2017 [76 favorites]


Anybody have any bets on what Trump will blurt out to Erdogan tomorrow?
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:01 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


Tomorrow's schedule has Trump calling the King of Jordan in the morning, so that's interesting from a "guess which country he screwed over [besides ours]" perspective.

That's followed by Erdogan's visit. Spicey is set for 1:30pm Eastern with special guest H. R. McMaster. I guess they figure there might be a few questions.
posted by zachlipton at 9:01 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]




Anybody have any bets on what Trump will blurt out to Erdogan tomorrow?

"Sorry I told Russia your secrets"
posted by Existential Dread at 9:05 PM on May 15, 2017 [10 favorites]



Was the Jordan call on the schedule before this story broke? Because if it was just scheduled and announced isn't that like sorta pointing to the possible country he might have been talking about?
posted by Jalliah at 9:07 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


*nostalgicizing* Remember that one time a few months ago when Sean Spicer kept tweeting his own passwords and we were all like "Damn what a fucking numbskull this guy is"? [sigh]
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:07 PM on May 15, 2017 [18 favorites]


david "stopped clock" brooks:

When the World Is Led by a Child
We’ve got this perverse situation in which the vast analytic powers of the entire world are being spent trying to understand a guy whose thoughts are often just six fireflies beeping randomly in a jar.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:08 PM on May 15, 2017 [77 favorites]


And therefore a super dumb thing
posted by Jalliah at 9:08 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm still fixated on this supposed Egypt call tonight, which wasn't on today's schedule at all, but the Egyptian side seems to say it happened. As far as I can tell, the White House hasn't said anything about it, and it wasn't on the public schedule this morning. The secrecy is certainly a sign that this isn't normal.
posted by zachlipton at 9:14 PM on May 15, 2017 [12 favorites]


See that would make more sense. A call that isn't on the schedule or talked about.
posted by Jalliah at 9:16 PM on May 15, 2017


that this isn't normal

can we just start calling out the normal things, to save time
posted by murphy slaw at 9:20 PM on May 15, 2017 [46 favorites]



POTUS: Our intelligence guys, they're unbelievable. Just unbelievable. Just today, they were telling me, they got a guy in Cairo - great guy, wonderful guy - this guy in Cairo, knows everything about laptop bombs. ISIS is doing them. Very dangerous, very bad. So now we're going to ban laptops on the planes. From Arab - Arab countries, Europe, everywhere. Look, here's a map of the election. Look at all the places I won. Did you know it's almost impossible for a Republican to win the electoral college?

LAVROV: [unintelligible]

posted by theodolite at 9:21 PM on May 15, 2017 [14 favorites]


I think I know what's happening: someone handed a printout of the Achilles and the Tortoise paradox to Trump and he figured he can do the same thing with self-inflicted scandals. He is the Achilles and tortoise is impeachment, obviously.
posted by rainy at 9:23 PM on May 15, 2017


In that universe, Clinton was impeached on January 27th over emails, and after 4 months of hearings in the House the Senate has just started removal proceedings

I gotta point out that conviction requires 67 votes which, over emails, seems like a stretch...
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:27 PM on May 15, 2017 [3 favorites]


Rod Rosenstein says he's defending Constitution, not worried about reputation

He's fully bought into the conspiracy, there's a reason he got the call after Yates.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:36 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


more like "david 'pitch-drop' brooks", amirite?
posted by j_curiouser at 9:37 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


David Brooks has undergone a crisis of faith the past few years that, since the rise of Trump, has accelerated into a full-scale mental and ideological breakdown.

He seems to have composed himself somewhat since those columns before and immediately after the election, which resembled nothing so much as the written equivalent of the thousand-yard stare.
posted by Anonymous at 9:45 PM on May 15, 2017


Rosenstein was speaking to accept an "award for demonstrating courage in public service for his time as U.S. attorney for Maryland."

The writers have long since given up.
posted by zachlipton at 9:54 PM on May 15, 2017 [11 favorites]


Why are you calling me David Brooks?
posted by bongo_x at 9:54 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


It's never good when your best legal defence is that you're a dumbass.

A show-off, according to true Post. One of their reporters was on PBS, and said that basically Trump was bragging about our "great intel," and the tell-tale information just popped out of his mouth.

It's not like he's helping the Russians or there's any quid pro quo, he just can't help himself. Or as you suggested, a dumbass.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 9:59 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


A show-off, according to true Post. One of their reporters was on PBS, and said that basically Trump was bragging about our "great intel," and the tell-tale information just popped out of his mouth.

"And one of the things about this job...the things I have access to, I mean, I get such great intelligence. The best intelligence. Really, it'd blow you away. Stuff like *reveals highly-classified secret intel*. And we had that from *ally*, so we know it's solid, they've got a guy on the inside. I mean, really, how awesome is that?"
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 10:11 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


Quick survey of right-wing media:
- National Review. Jonah Goldberg "I don’t know if the Washington Post story is accurate, but I do think it’s entirely plausible."

- Daily Caller - A small straight description of the WaPo report, a small straight description of the WH denial, and a big lead article titled On the Record: Only Named Source In WaPo Report On Trump’s Leaking Of Classified Information Denies It (referring to McMaster). However, that big article is pretty fair and not a positive for Trump, really.

- Washington Times lead article: Officials dispute report Trump revealed classified information to Russians

- Fox News. Lead story: FEDERAL GOV’T SHAKEUP? Push for Convention of the States gains steam. The leak story is buried under title 'IT DIDN'T HAPPEN' WH denies report Trump revealed classified info. It's given the same amount of billing as 'SNL' fat shames Sarah Huckabee Sanders

TL/DR: even among right-wing media, Fox is by far the biggest propaganda shills and least accurate reporter of facts.
posted by msalt at 10:15 PM on May 15, 2017 [20 favorites]


> I mean, really, how awesome is that?

And then the Russians are like "yes, sir, we know that the special sauce is just Thousand Island dressing."
posted by tonycpsu at 10:15 PM on May 15, 2017


I'm visiting Sweden to see my relatives and today is my 28th birthday. Can somebody hit me with some great links detailing wtf just happened?!
posted by gucci mane at 10:15 PM on May 15, 2017 [1 favorite]


I wake up and suddenly Trump has fed classified info to Kislyak in the middle of the goddamn White House right after firing Comey? Like wtf is going on
posted by gucci mane at 10:16 PM on May 15, 2017 [23 favorites]


It's so easy to parody Trump-speech that I was stunned to read (in the Washington Times, no less) that this is literally what Trump said in the meeting:

“I get great intel. I have people brief me on great intel every day.”
posted by msalt at 10:17 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Honestly, the Washington Post story that started all of this is a perfect explanation of what happened and why it's very bad.

Happy birthday!
posted by zachlipton at 10:18 PM on May 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


Because I'm a grown-ass man capable of making smart and mature decisions, I called General Mattis's cell phone and left a message. Basically saying, hello General, you don't know me, happened to see your number, just figured I'd call to say: please, can you do something about Donald Trump. Cause things really seem to be getting out of hand over there. You're a smart guy who cares about his country, and I'm not sure how we're going to get out of this mess until some people with integrity start standing up to him, so please, if you can help us out and do something about Mr. Trump, that'd be great.

(of course there's not a chance in hell he'll even hear it, or give the slightest shit in the random chance that he does, but it made me feel better briefly)
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 10:18 PM on May 15, 2017 [41 favorites]


shit, I forgot to say, thank you for your service. maybe i should call him back.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 10:19 PM on May 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


People, if you have (R) reps, keep slamming them about impeachment. Today my congress-weasel had a Facebook post re Police Week, so I hit him with a "Speaking of upholding the law and protecting Americans..." (I then went on to ask if he truly cannot comprehend how poorly his ilk will be judged by history.)

And speaking of Repub hypocrisy, I wonder what kind of twizted-pretzel logic my right-wing "Support the Police/Support the Military" family would employ when confronted with stories (like the one above) about what has been done to Muslim or Hispanic LEOs and military personnel.

In a parallel universe we've spent the last week debating whether or not the President was too effusive/not effusive enough at the elementary school she visited. I wish I were there.

In a parallel universe I went to SNL last weekend (just like this timeline). I watched a lukewarm sketch about President HRC teaching her grandchildren "the latest dance" - the Macarena. Then everyone I knew said, "Saturday Night Live? Is that still on?"
posted by NorthernLite at 10:20 PM on May 15, 2017 [16 favorites]


> lingering concerns many intelligence professionals have about entrusting sensitive national security information to a president who has ... no prior experience in government or the military.

Concerns, no shit. At this point I would consider anyone with prior experience playing Diplomacy (the fucking game) to be more trustworthy than Trump.

(Speaking of which, anyone interested in another round of MeFi Dip? I wouldn't mind having actual intellect along with the intel for a change.)
posted by Westringia F. at 10:23 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


(And yes, I just called Dip players more trustworthy than the President. That's... saying something.)
posted by Westringia F. at 10:28 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


Eliot Cohen for the Atlantic: The Terrible Cost of Trump's Disclosures
To a remarkable degree, the United States relies on liaison relationships with other powers with whom it shares information. If Trump has indeed compromised a source of information, it is not merely a betrayal of an ally’s trust: It is an act that will jeopardize a whole range of relationships. After all, the Director of Central Intelligence cannot very well say, “Don’t worry, we won’t share that with the president.” So now everybody—even our closest allies like the United Kingdom—would be well-advised to be careful with what they share with us. That is a potential intelligence debacle for us, but the danger goes beyond that.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:38 PM on May 15, 2017 [26 favorites]


So I've only read a couple of autobiographies by CIA officers, but one thing really got driven home in both: the CIA employee is the "officer," and the person the officer recruits in a foreign country is the "agent." Those books by those veteran officers really drive home the risks people take in helping the CIA, and the importance of protecting them. The whole practice of espionage depends on it.

And here's the really crazy thing: yes, some people in other countries help the CIA for money, and some for favors. No doubt But a surprising number of them go to the CIA because, given the context of whatever is going on, they see it as the right thing to do. They see it as a way to fight a corrupt government at home or to disrupt some dangerous thing happening in the world (like, oh, ISIS). It's not always opportunism or some other cynical motive. Sometimes it really is altruism.

The sitting president of the United States just pissed all over that. For laughs with his Russian buddies.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:43 PM on May 15, 2017 [78 favorites]


Well, you know... he really loves piss.
posted by Artw at 11:09 PM on May 15, 2017 [5 favorites]


...wow...
Thought this was /fake
So, please please please could we remember to note /fake and just as importantly /not fake. Because common sense/previous ideas of how life works are proving no longer reliable.
posted by From Bklyn at 11:12 PM on May 15, 2017 [9 favorites]


It's still hard for me to wrap my brain around this stuff.

The most bizarre thing is how unmotivated it all is. It's like a strange, not-very-good horror movie, where politicians are self-maiming on camera. They act like it's not happening, and reporters are too shocked/perplexed/"professional" to say anything. It just keeps happening more and more.

I feel like history is not going to understand the deep, pointless self-ownage that is going on.

No one ever told me an empire could die from a delusional self-annihilating reactionary spasm, based on not a single fucking true thing.
posted by fleacircus at 11:19 PM on May 15, 2017 [34 favorites]


.. and it's only Monday.
posted by rainy at 11:24 PM on May 15, 2017 [4 favorites]


It's like a strange, not-very-good horror movie, where politicians are self-maiming on camera.
SCP-1981 appears to be a home video recording of former United States President Ronald Reagan delivering his "Evil Empire" speech to the National Association of Evangelicals at Sheraton Twin Towers Hotel, Orlando, FL on 3/8/1983. However, at 1 minute and 10 seconds, the speech begins to deviate heavily, eventually resembling no known speech ever made by Reagan. Beginning at approximately 5 minutes, multiple incisions, lacerations and penetration wounds can be seen being slowly inflicted, though no corresponding source of these wounds is visible. Despite suffering bodily harm that would likely incapacitate an ordinary person, Reagan will continue to deliver his speech until either his vocal cords are severed or the tape degrades to static at 22:34.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:32 PM on May 15, 2017 [32 favorites]


Here's a cheerful thought: It's only Monday. I'm beginning to realize that these golfing weekends not only give Trump a bit of a reprieve, it gives the rest of us a reprieve as well.

If only.
PALM BEACH, FL—Having struggled to haul more than 30 pounds of highly classified documents for 18 holes, Mar-a-Lago caddy Simon Bauers reportedly injured his shoulder Sunday while carrying a set of President Donald Trump’s national security briefings around the resort’s golf course. “I definitely felt a sudden twinge of pain while walking to the 12th hole with all of President Trump’s intelligence briefings slung over my right shoulder,” said Bauers, adding that he was forced to lift the large, unwieldy assortment of CIA and FBI briefings with his left arm for the remainder of the day. “Hopefully it isn’t anything serious, but by the end of the day, I could barely pick up a few binders of intel on North Korea’s ballistic missile capabilities, let alone all the dossiers on ISIS. I might have to go see a doctor tomorrow if the pain doesn’t go away.” Bauers went on to say that he is at least glad Trump’s set of briefings has gotten far lighter ever since intelligence officials decided to withhold sensitive information from the president to avoid White House leaks.

http://www.theonion.com/article/mar-lago-caddy-injures-shoulder-carrying-heavy-set-55502


(fake)
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:46 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


I've been thinking about the classified leak,

And on one hand, I'm relieved because it provesthat Trump is getting classified briefings and retaining that information for later use.

On the other hand Putin.
posted by AlexiaSky at 11:59 PM on May 15, 2017 [2 favorites]


It's so easy to parody Trump-speech that I was stunned to read (in the Washington Times, no less) that this is literally what Trump said in the meeting:

“I get great intel. I have people brief me on great intel every day.”


This is the part that makes the whole thing so hard to believe. It is like he has become a parody of himself.
posted by Literaryhero at 12:14 AM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Just had a thought: Is it possible that there really was no direct collusion with Russia, the Kremlin doesn't actually have any dirt on Trump, the Russian investment in Trump's businesses has been overstated, and that all of this pro-Russian bullshit is for literally no other reason than that Trump wants Putin to be his friend?

Nah. Trump has repeatedly (and for Trump, systematically) denied financial and business involvements in Russia:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article150517907.html

Charlotte Observer - Eric Trump said Russians financed golf courses, author insists
A longtime journalist and author said Sunday he remains steadfast in what Donald Trump’s son Eric told him on a Lake Norman golf course in 2013: that the Trumps relied on Russian backers to finance their golf courses.

Eric Trump went on Twitter last Monday to deny that he told James Dodson, co-author of Arnold Palmer’s memoir, a Ben Hogan biography and other books, that the Trumps relied on Russian financiers as they bought and renovated courses.

“This story is completely fabricated and just another example of why there is such a deep distrust of the media in our country #FakeNews,” Eric Trump said.

But on Sunday, Dodson insisted that Eric Trump did tell him about Russian investors. And two colleagues of Dodson – including one who had helped develop golf in Russia – said Dodson told them back in 2013 what Eric Trump said about Russian financial backing.

Besides, it would not be the first time one of Trump’s sons has spoken publicly about the importance of Russian capital to the family’s business empire.

At a real estate conference in 2008, Donald Trump Jr. said in a widely circulated comment that Russian money was “pouring in” to the Trump business.

“... In terms of high-end product influx into the U.S., Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets, say in Dubai, and certainly with our project in SoHo and anywhere in New York. We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia,” Trump Jr. said.
...

Also the random oligarch that bought Trump's Florida property for 50M more than it's value, or
...

2008: Trump’s son, Donald Trump Jr., told investors in Moscow that the Trump Organization had trademarked the Donald Trump name in Russia and planned to build housing and hotels in Moscow, St. Petersburg and Sochi, and sell licenses to other developers, the Russian daily Kommersant reported. “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets,” Trump Jr. said at the time. “We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia."

Trump Jr. traveled to Russia a half-dozen times in 18 months looking for deals, but none materialized. He said there were plenty of investment opportunities, but the business environment was dangerous and trustworthy partners hard to find. “It really is a scary place,” he said, according to eTurboNews, an online business publication.

...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/02/15/donald-trumps-ties-russia-go-back-30-years/97949746/


Trump et. al. really like these weasely, ethically fraught deals, like
...

This simply isn’t what Holt asked, and it isn’t what dozens of journalists and politicians have been asking for months now. It would be interesting, of course, to learn that the Trump Organization secretly owns buildings or hotels in Moscow. But that’s not really Trump’s style. When he builds a building in Azerbaijan, it’s called Trump Tower Baku.

The secret of Trump’s business deal in that post-Soviet republic isn’t where the building is; it’s who has the money behind the building. According to Adam Davidson, investment in Trump Tower Baku was mixed up in domestic political corruption in Azerbaijan and even money laundering by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.

...

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/12/15629410/trump-russia-lester-holt-business-ties


He's known to sexually assault women and systematically defraud construction subcontractors - he's exactly the sort of person who would take dirty money from Putin and exactly the sort of person to whom Putin would offer dirty money in order to compromise.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:19 AM on May 16, 2017 [23 favorites]


It is like he has become a parody of himself.

Sunday's Doonesbury comic was done the easy way, with all direct quotes from Trump. Who needs satire?
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:21 AM on May 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


Jonathan Coulton popped up on shuffle tonight and I realized the Leopards Eating Faces Party has a theme song.

"We're not unreasonable. I mean, no one's gonna eat your eyes."
We now return to our regularly scheduled screaming

posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 12:26 AM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Public: the Russians seem to have some sort of leverage over Trump. If he gets elected he might compromise intelligence or even be a Russian asset!
Trump: gets elected. Immediately begins compromising intelligence and acting like a Russian asset.
Public: Lets all do a deep dive into the psychology and motives of Trump and his cabinet to figure out why they're all compromising intelligence and acting like Russian assets.

Public: since the Russians hacked the RNC but ominously didn't release anything, they may have kompromat that will compel the GOP to stop acting as an effective check on executive power!
GOP: gets elected. Immediately begins behaving as though there is kompromat and stops acting as a check on executive power.
Public: let's do a deep dive into the psychology and motives of the GOP to figure out why they've all stopped acting as a check on executive power.

And scene.

This is just connect the dot at this point.
posted by supercrayon at 12:52 AM on May 16, 2017 [62 favorites]


Despite suffering bodily harm that would likely incapacitate an ordinary person, Reagan will continue to deliver his speech until either his vocal cords are severed or the tape degrades to static at 22:34.

Someone really liked Ballard's "The Atrocity Exhibition".
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 1:18 AM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


This is the most foreseeable scandal yet, I'm certain some smart mefite wrote about it before the election: of course Trump is not able to handle classified information, and of course this is a huge dilemma for the IC. How can they not inform the president? How does national security in the US and NATO even work if intelligence cannot be reviewed and decisions made in the White House? At this point I really want to round up everyones' racist uncle and aunt and shout at them: WFT did you think you were doing???

BTW this is exactly why I don't think Comey deliberately handed Trump the election, he made a really bad judgement because he foresaw the endless litigation coming with a Clinton presidency, but there is no way anyone in intelligence with half a brain would want Trump for president…
posted by mumimor at 2:01 AM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Speaking of racist uncles — all the Trumpist friends of friends on my FB have gone silent. I checked and they were still sputtering "but her emails" and "why is no one investigating Obama" after Comey was fired, but now there is nothing.
posted by mumimor at 2:03 AM on May 16, 2017 [18 favorites]


From the Atlantic article linked above:
[…]Tillerson casually said of Trump in an interview on Meet the Press on Sunday “I have to earn his confidence every day.” One does not earn Donald Trump’s confidence by calmly conveying to him some unpleasant but essential truths. Rather, one earns his confidence by truckling to him, and by lying to everyone else. Now, what Tillerson, Powell, and McMaster said are not quite lies, but they are the kind of parsed half truths that are as bad, and in some cases worse. This is how one’s reputation for veracity is infected by the virulent moral bacteria that cover Donald Trump. Friends will watch, pained and incredulous, as they realize that one simply cannot assume that anything these senior subordinates of the president say is the truth. And having stretched, manipulated, or artfully misrepresented the truth once, these officials will do it again and again. They will be particularly surprised when they learn that most people assume that as trusted subordinates of the president, they lie not as colorfully as he does, but just as routinely. Perhaps the worst will be the moment when these high officials can no longer recognize their own characters for what they once were.
posted by mumimor at 2:12 AM on May 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


...but there is no way anyone in intelligence with half a brain would want Trump for president…

I'm not so sure about this. Frequent purges will make for great career opportunities.
posted by sour cream at 2:23 AM on May 16, 2017


Chaos is a ladder?
posted by Justinian at 2:50 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


I was just thinking about this op-ed and trying to remember when it ran...

August 5th, 2016. That's when this ran. Almost ten months ago. Couple weeks after the Republican convention, where Michael Flynn (remember him?) chanted "Lock her up" because Hillary Clinton used regular email to discuss some information she didn't know was classified, and Republicans were VERY concerned about information security. Remember that?

Anyway, on August 5th, the N.Y. Times published this op-edd by a former CIA director calling Trump "an unwitting agent of the Russian Federation."

Of course, with everything we've learned since about how Russia tried to help Trump win, and how personally and financially tied Trump is to Russia, it's a lot harder to buy the "unwitting" part now.

Some more highlights from this editorial which makes it seem as if Morell could see into the future...
"The character traits he has exhibited during the primary season suggest he would be a poor, even dangerous, commander in chief.

These traits include his obvious need for self-aggrandizement, his overreaction to perceived slights, his tendency to make decisions based on intuition, his refusal to change his views based on new information, his routine carelessness with the facts, his unwillingness to listen to others and his lack of respect for the rule of law."
...
"Mr. Trump has also undermined security with his call for barring Muslims from entering the country. This position, which so clearly contradicts the foundational values of our nation, plays into the hands of the jihadist narrative"
...
"Donald J. Trump is not only unqualified for the job, but he may well pose a threat to our national security."
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:52 AM on May 16, 2017 [40 favorites]


Meanwhile, "Over There" in the alt-reality, the narrative is all about the BIG BREAK in the Seth Rich case that will finally bring Hillary to justice for his murder, which she probably did herself like all those Benghazis. It's the top story on Drudge and Brietbart and #SethRich is currently trending atop Twitter (curious how these far-right conspiracy theories always seem to gain momentum overnight while America sleeps). It all seems to stem from a local Fox affiliate report that a private detective hired by Seth Rich's family found evidence that he had contact with WikiLeaks prior to death. This proves Seth Rich hacked the DNC, not Russia. The man is a hero. Comey was fired for impeding the investigation to shield Hillary from prosecution.

The hate and excitement is electric throughout the conservative blogosphere and on social media because this is it, the smoking gun that will finally bring down the Clintons, Obama, Podesta, Little Caesar, and destroy the evil DNC once and for all. This is what they believe Trump's "lock her up" rhetoric was all about and that the moment is finally nigh. Of course, the MSM is trying to bury the story by manufacturing fake news to blame Russia and discredit Trump. Like yesterday's conveniently time WaPo article.

There is only one Truth for these people and it's the one that they've been spoon-fed and is already in their head. Any other outcome, lack thereof, or even the slightest deviation from what they unwaveringly believe has already been rejected.
posted by guiseroom at 3:11 AM on May 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


Tonight Show mash up: Liberty University and Legally Blonde
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:22 AM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


guiseroom: It all seems to stem from a local Fox affiliate report that a private detective hired by Seth Rich's family found evidence that he had contact with WikiLeaks prior to death.

The whole is baffling, since the private investigator claims the evidence, if it exists, is on the laptop... that he has never seen and doesn't have access to. And he seems to think it's suspicious that the FBI doesn't want to co-operate with him, a private investigator. I suppose there's going to be another part of the story this morning, but I'm struggling to understand what their story is so far besides "You know laptops? They sometimes have emails. I bet this laptop has emails! (maybe)"
posted by bluecore at 3:28 AM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


This is the most foreseeable scandal yet, I'm certain some smart mefite wrote about it before the election: of course Trump is not able to handle classified information...

And yet, somehow, he was able to do it in the stupidest possible manner. I mean, we all figured it would be a tweet, or during one of his Verbal Diarrhea '17 Tour rallies. But in a private Oval Office meeting with Russians? That's just too on-the-nose even for this mirror-universe West Wing season written by Aaron Sorkin after a TBI and a bad divorce.
posted by Etrigan at 3:30 AM on May 16, 2017 [21 favorites]


If there's two word I never want to hear again it's "laptop" and "emails".

I get a visceral reaction akin to a close encounter with something small, hairy, and very very poisonous.
posted by lydhre at 3:31 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump's Muslim ban has denied entry to Iraqi people who risked their lives and the lives of their families and even villages to help us, so he's been selling out US intelligence assets for months. What's one more to this POS president?

Miss USA Draws Backlash For Saying Health Care Is A ‘Privilege’

We didn't get the Miss USA we want, we got the Miss USA we deserve.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:31 AM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


re: Seth Rich, part II

Oh, also, someone in the DC police at some point was told to "stand down" (no context given.) It's like they're playing their greatest hits of Benghazi grievances. Anyone who's told to stand down is always doing the right thing and they're being stopped by Evil Elitists who are helping the Clintons do Evil Elitist things. Or maybe the FBI took over the investigation. Maybe just that.
posted by bluecore at 3:35 AM on May 16, 2017


all the Trumpist friends of friends on my FB have gone silent

Dormant, surely?
posted by spitbull at 3:35 AM on May 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


My god, a parliamentary system sound good about now.

As long as it's a STRONG AND STABLE one.

Srsly though, it's not all it's cracked up to be. Sigh...
posted by Myeral at 3:35 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]




Lol of course he is.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:20 AM on May 16, 2017 [18 favorites]


Most Americans will care (or understand) this story far less than the Comey firing, which, in my red state coworkers, has elicited one yawn, one but-her-emails, one "lol he's trolling the liberals", and one "I don't take Trump seriously so I don't care." I doubt this will register any differently.

Basically this is another straw on the camel whose back was broken on day 7. Republican congress folks will not care until it hurts them personally. Focus needs to remain on Russian collusion and his reasons for firing Comey.
posted by Room 101 at 4:22 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I just read about the potency of accidental fentanyl exposure, and my first thought was "huh, that makes an interesting alternative to polonium..."

This is not a first-thought I would have had a year ago.
posted by Westringia F. at 4:23 AM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


The sitting president of the United States just pissed all over that. For laughs with his Russian buddies.

Well, in his value system, he is the top dog, and it's the top dog's prerogative to piss wherever he goddam likes.
posted by acb at 4:25 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Room 101, isn't it amazing how many people could get it up for the incredibly technowonky BUTTER EMAILS that now seem to have complete lost interest in the *yawn* basic foundations of our system of government?
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:27 AM on May 16, 2017 [34 favorites]


Westringria, I'm concerned these news reports are going to lead to adding additional criminal charges to herion users who have little to no control over their supply, and to justify ending naloxone programs as to dangerous to administer.
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:30 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Banning laptops on flights into the USA is a pretty big deal and you would think the reason must be pretty substantial. The USA's other allies are probably going to be sad and disappointed that the intelligence wasn't shared with them, but was randomly dropped imto a conversation with the Russian ambassador.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:32 AM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


I just don't grok the GOP and its supporters in all ways but in this way in particular: even if they think Trump is great or not great but just ignore him, Everything's Fine, how can they not be aware and extremely worried that a significant portion of the country is screaming THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE. Because if one is like, no, don't be silly, isn't one going to assume the fire-screamer is going to bust down the door and spray water over one's belongings?
posted by angrycat at 4:34 AM on May 16, 2017


nice of trump to throw both mcmaster and dina powell under the bus in the space of two tweets.
posted by murphy slaw at 4:35 AM on May 16, 2017 [23 favorites]


how can they not be aware and extremely worried that a significant portion of the country is screaming THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE.

because they screamed that the house was on fire for the entire obama administration while knowing full well that it wasn't
posted by murphy slaw at 4:36 AM on May 16, 2017 [72 favorites]


Trump's morning tweeting
Under the bus the staff goes
What will he tweet next?
posted by AlexiaSky at 4:38 AM on May 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


Openly scheduled WH meeting?

Openly scheduled?

Nevermind the Kislyak over there. Nevermind the Russian media over there. Nevermind the scrubbing of the transcript over there. Nevermind what I told them. Nevermind that visitor logs are a fever dream that no citizen is entitled to. The thing was scheduled!
posted by mahorn at 4:43 AM on May 16, 2017 [23 favorites]


Man, it's like clockwork now.
Breaking News: Trump did something insanely stupid and possibly treasonous.
GOP congress: well that seems less than ideal, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
WH spokesman: um, no, didn't happen.
Russians: completely *giggle* false. *snort*
Fox News: They say it didn't happen, case closed! How about those Hillary emails?
Trump, tweeting next morning: damn right it happened! I'm the president I can do what I want! MAGA!
WH spokesman: *chugs whiskey*
Media: ...seriously? Anyone?
GOP congress: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ enough distractions, can we get back to screwing the poor now?
posted by Roommate at 4:47 AM on May 16, 2017 [155 favorites]




Would someone PLEASE ask Trump what "Humanitarian" means at the next press conference?

(That word makes me think Trump didn't write the tweet... but it's so stupid it has to be him.)
posted by mmoncur at 4:49 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


another defect in the constitution is becoming apparent: there are ample checks and balances on the president's ability to implement policy and shepherd legislation, but almost none on his behavior as an individual.

impeachment is it, and jackassery short of "high crimes and misdemeanors" is basically immune to sanction.

it's like the founders couldn't imagine that we would elect a moron with no impulse control or something.
posted by murphy slaw at 4:52 AM on May 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


That word makes me think Trump didn't write the tweet

also "pertaining" - but he could just be parroting something an aide said to him five minutes ago
posted by murphy slaw at 4:53 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I just won 50 bucks because of those tweets. I need a job. I'm wondering if I can now just make money saying what Trump is going to do with people that are either in denial or have yet to understand what he is truly like.
I keep having conversations "Well he's gonna do this now or this is going to happen" and get "nah that's silly".
Wanna bet?
Last night I actually made a serious one and said that by end of day he will say he did do it and therefore show that his people were lying.

So kaching!
posted by Jalliah at 4:54 AM on May 16, 2017 [41 favorites]


Ziegler: "Third-rate burglary" "shoddy journalism" by WashPost

Nixon, next day: "Amazing burglary, which I have the absolute right to do"


His national security team was pretty much the only part of this administration with any credibility left. He just destroyed that in the space of two tweets.
posted by zarq at 4:54 AM on May 16, 2017 [55 favorites]


In the endless firehose of diarrhea filled with metal and glass shards and ebola I've reduced myself to scanning these threads in a stupor.
posted by yoga at 5:00 AM on May 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


We've all heard of suicide by cop. This morning after reading the Post's story, I came to the realization that Cheeto is trying to commit presidential suicide by tweet. He fucks up, at times willfully (it appears to some observers), and his staff then scramble to undo the damage he has done. He then undermines their efforts on Twitter. He is too much of a coward to remove himself from office, so he's hoping the press will do it for him.
posted by msali at 5:07 AM on May 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


endless firehose of diarrhea

I was once on Route 9 headed from Cambridge to Worcester, MA, when a septic truck blew its valve on the highway a few cars ahead of mine. A giant torrent of shitty bilge water sprayed all over the highway dousing the cars in front of mine in brown muck. I managed to avoid the worst of it but the smell was unbelievable. Shit spraying everywhere.

That's my metaphor for trump's twitter feed.
posted by spitbull at 5:09 AM on May 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


We'll see if any of these traitors has anything to say about it this morning.

Mic-Pins? P-Bus? Prion? Triggidy? McComminals?
posted by aspersioncast at 5:10 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


IMO, not enough attention being paid to the fact that Trump supposedly dropped classified intel in front of a Russian photographer too.

A photographer without whom we'd have no proof that Kislyak was at that "openly scheduled" meeting. So at least there's that.

also "pertaining" - but he could just be parroting something an aide said to him five minutes ago

Maybe he just watched Beverly Hills Cop.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:12 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]



As President I wanted to share with Russia (at an openly scheduled W.H. meeting) which I have the absolute right to do, facts pertaining....

...to terrorism and airline flight safety. Humanitarian reasons, plus I want Russia to greatly step up their fight against ISIS & terrorism.


"Sharing is caring"? Really? That's what you have for us?
posted by MonkeyToes at 5:13 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


my next bet: sometime today a white house spox will "clarify" that trump did not intend to imply that he had leaked classified information, merely that it was his prerogative to do so if he so chose
posted by murphy slaw at 5:16 AM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Tom Cotton went on Hugh Hewitt's show this morning and apparently forgot to check twitter first. He said he believed McMasters over the anonymous leakers who spoke to the press. Whoops. I like to imagine that he was embarrassed by his President but at this point who knows?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:18 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Surely This...


(Given that Trump has just confirmed that he shared facts with Russia last week, I would NOT want to be one of the terrible threesome who put their integrity on the line to lie for him yesterday. MacMaster and Co have a Capital P PROBLEM.)
posted by Yowser at 5:18 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Capitol Pee.
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:19 AM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


He's still going. And of course now he's on to how the big deal isn't his actions, but the LEAKERS:

I have been asking Director Comey & others, from the beginning of my administration, to find the LEAKERS in the intelligence community.....
posted by jammer at 5:19 AM on May 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


dude they aren't in "the intelligence community". they're in your office pool.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:20 AM on May 16, 2017 [28 favorites]


Guys, I have it. I have found the way out of the woods. I am a genius.

What does Donald love? The trappings of the Presidency.

What does Donald hate? The obligations of the presidency.

What we need is the first-ever voluntary, permanent invocation of section three of the Twenty-Fifth Amendment.

- Trump gets to live in the White House.
- Trump gets to be called "The President".
- Trump gets to fly around on Air Force One and do campaign speeches.
- Trump gets to do steak infomercials or whatever skeevy business bullshit his family desires.
- Trump doesn't have to attend boring meetings; in fact he cannot attend some of those meetings because he will have no security clearance. But the meetings are boring.
- Pence becomes Acting President but issues a Presidential Memorandum for everyone to call him Mister Pence.
- Trump gets to stay at Mar-A-Lago as much as he wants.
- Trump gets to attend non-secure meetings as The President, and Mister Pence will nod and pretend to listen to him.
- By the time Pence issues a policy, Donald will have forgotten what happened in the meeting.
- Donald and his family and campaign get a full pardon.
- Big truck parties.
- If for some silly reason Donald tries to regain the actual powers and duties of the Presidency, Pence and his loyal Cabinet work with Congress to impose Section Four and kick him to the curb.
- Donald gets two scoops of ice cream. Hell, three.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:20 AM on May 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


Peeing in the office pool.
posted by spitbull at 5:20 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


"If I did it" by OJ Simpson DJT
posted by mhz at 5:21 AM on May 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


…but the leaker was me. [fake, probably, but c'mon, finish your tweet.]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:21 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


can we all try to shake off the last few drips of pee jokes
posted by murphy slaw at 5:24 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


I was just thinking about this op-ed and trying to remember when it ran...August 5th, 2016

Between that and the infamous August 6th, 2001 President's Daily Briefing, I'm starting to think the first week in August is fated to be a time of Cassandras, whose doom it is to be ignored.
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:27 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


The fourth is Baracks's birthday, for what it's worth
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:30 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


To my mind, this is of a piece with how he thought about firing Comey. He's both ignorant and stupid. "So, everyone is kinda angry with Comey, so no one will object if I fire him, and the Russia thing is BS anyway." He just can't think past the superficial and the moment. Same thing with this meeting and this intel: "The worst thing in the world are Islamic terrorists, and Russia is very hardline against them, so it makes sense that we team-up with Russia and, also, it totally makes sense to tell them about this laptop computer terrorist plan I just heard about".

This is also why I don't think that any of the details of any of this kind of stuff worry Trump voters. A huge portion of American voters are as superficial and ininformed as Trump and they will see this stuff the same way he does.

I think I mentioned this before, but one of my formative memories was being a freshman in high school on a band trip during the Iran Hostage crisis, and late one night two of the guys in our hotel room were all, well, why can't we just nuke Iran? Won't that solve the problem? And I was like, well, using a nuclear weapon is huge deal and the Middle East is an unstable place and the USSR would probably freak out about using using a nuke, so that would cause more trouble than it would solve. And they were like, uh, if you say so. I still think we should just nuke them.

I think a lot of people never get past this level of engagement with public policy and foreign relations and what's happened is that they've finally elected a President who thinks just like they do. They're probably pretty happy about it every time he confirms that he's like them.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 5:33 AM on May 16, 2017 [75 favorites]


Somehow, somewhere, we need to develop a form of governance that is predicated upon basic competence. That demands processes for arriving at consensus on what competence is ("Good enough for government work", as an old lecturer of mine used to say).
posted by stonepharisee at 5:36 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


sad that one of the signs of being reasonably intelligent is that you want your leaders to be way, way smarter than you.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:36 AM on May 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


@Theophite
how could we have predicted that a guy who spontaneously confessed to sex crimes to a perfect stranger on a hot mic was not good at secrets
posted by chris24 at 5:37 AM on May 16, 2017 [157 favorites]


Somehow, somewhere, we need to develop a form of governance that is predicated upon basic competence. That demands processes for arriving at consensus on what competence is

maybe it's time to bring back the imperial examinations
posted by murphy slaw at 5:38 AM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


What we need is the first-ever voluntary, permanent invocation of section three of the Twenty-Fifth Amendment.

A presidential hellban might be the only way we survive.

I have always thought the imperial examination system was a good idea except that we probably wouldn't want it to focus as much on a close reading of classic literature.
posted by winna at 5:40 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Like W, DJT is proof that an excellent, expensive, private education is no guarantee it will produce an introspective and intelligent person. In fact, when it comes to civics, i believe that most naturalized citizens are better informed about the US than your average, natural-born citizen. Myself included.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:42 AM on May 16, 2017 [20 favorites]


probably wouldn't want it to focus as much on a close reading of classic literature.

at least it would select for functional literacy?
posted by murphy slaw at 5:42 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


And you know what really makes me grind my teeth? My mother-in-law this weekend said, "Now you know how we felt when Obama was in the White House."

Yep. She is comparing an intelligent, thoughtful, competent guy with no personal scandals who was doing the best job he could to make America safe, strong, and better for every person living here with that utterly worthless POS now infesting the Oval Office.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:43 AM on May 16, 2017 [114 favorites]


I think a lot of people never get past this level of engagement with public policy and foreign relations and what's happened is that they've finally elected a President who thinks just like they do.

Yesterday, I realized that the Russian government has really counted coup on us. They must be positively chortling. Because they really read us. They were a thousand times more politically astute than the best strategic minds in either of our major parties. The election manipulators really understood, far better than we idealistic and optimistic Americans, what our weaknesses are - celebrity, jingoism, racism, shallow narratives, funny pictures, the thrall of seeming strongmen. They used our favorite pablum - Facebook, memes, TV - and spoon-fed us their sticky ideas. They identified our national Achilles heel, aimed right for it like it was the thermal exhaust port on the Death Star, and scored a perfect hit. They couldn't have known their campaign would bring them such unbelievable success as to not only fully destabilize our politics but also deliver them a ridiculously easily manipulated tool in the White House, but they knew the exact spot to aim for. Make no mistake - this was an intellectual defeat, a feat of skilled manipulation of the masses.

We have to blame ourselves. We overlooked the love of ignorance and shallowness and hoped/expected our better angels to prevail. We don't have enough better angels any more. The alliance of the cynical and self-interested with the cheerfully ignorant creates a perfect medium for the interference of global corruption. It's been going on for a time, but in this election, it's reached an apotheosis. These are our American sins returning on our heads, our dumbass, jingoistic, simplistic chickens coming home to roost.
posted by Miko at 5:45 AM on May 16, 2017 [235 favorites]


probably wouldn't want it to focus as much on a close reading of classic literature.

at least it would select for functional literacy?


Exactly! Notice I said probably wouldn't want to focus as much, so as not to rule out that point. It would also require a minimum ability to empathize with the viewpoint of others and to understand narratives, too!
posted by winna at 5:46 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Civil service exam? You mean we should expect as much basic competency from elected officials as we do from, say, postal workers? Surely you jest.
posted by Vigilant at 5:46 AM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


And you know what really makes me grind my teeth? My mother-in-law this weekend said, "Now you know how we felt when Obama was in the White House."

This hits pretty close to something I've been trying to put into words but haven't been able to, that Trump is just desserts for having Obama in the White House, that the abject farce of Donald Trump is what white racists think of Obama. It's an incredibly revealing mode of thought.

I wish I had the conceptual vocabulary to even begin to explain it.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:47 AM on May 16, 2017 [78 favorites]


"Now you know how we felt when Obama was in the White House."

This is all Republican voters care about. They went through 8 years of personal hell because a black man was president, so they think it's only fair liberals experience the same torture over a festering pustule in a wig. The only thing that matters is liberal tears.

And its personal too, on an individual level, people like your mother in law across the country are delighting in liberals despair that our government is being destroyed. They voted for him because he's an incompetent moron that liberals despise, specifically so she could rub your face in the consequences. This is what they wanted the entire time.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:48 AM on May 16, 2017 [112 favorites]


Make no mistake - this was an intellectual defeat, a feat of skilled manipulation of the masses.

Miko you should publish that analysis.
posted by spitbull at 5:50 AM on May 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


I don't think "Of course I did it! And I'll do it again!!!" is the way you wanted to go here, Donnie.
posted by yhbc at 5:51 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Meme assignment: loose lips sink ships.
posted by spitbull at 5:54 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Ideally the voters at the primary and general stage would themselves screen for functional literacy, but it was apparently not something they cared about.
posted by Artw at 5:54 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Sidebar that comment ^
posted by adamvasco at 5:54 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Loose tweets sink fleets.
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:55 AM on May 16, 2017 [30 favorites]


Yep. She is comparing an intelligent, thoughtful, competent guy with no personal scandals who was doing the best job he could to make America safe, strong, and better for every person living here with that utterly worthless POS now infesting the Oval Office.

Once, I thought people had pretty similar internal lives. I was three or so.

After that I thought "Oh, well people have markedly different preferences on things compared to myself."

A fairly long time after that, I've come to "People's upbringings may shape them in such a way that I cannot really conceptualize the feelings they say they are having."

But still I am a little bit hurt in seeing such a clear Feelings/Facts divide in interpretation of the world. I have always been a Facts person to various faults, so usually I am wary of criticizing the Feelings interpretation. But I always had the impression some facts would be taken into account with enough emotional impetus. Maybe a hard-left TV channel is the answer.
posted by solarion at 5:55 AM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


And you know what really makes me grind my teeth? My mother-in-law this weekend said, "Now you know how we felt when Obama was in the White House.

family dynamics be damned, i fully would have suplexed her
posted by entropicamericana at 5:59 AM on May 16, 2017 [33 favorites]


Ideally the voters at the primary and general stage would themselves screen for functional literacy, but it was apparently not something they cared about.

I am beginning to believe poll tests would no longer disadvantage minority populations...and finding them really fucking tempting.
posted by corb at 6:00 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


tbh, more important than passing a general knowledge exam, all candidates should be thoroughly screened for psychopathy
posted by murphy slaw at 6:06 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Unfortunately the groups that had that the most figured that out were the ones hardest hit by vote suppression.
posted by Artw at 6:08 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


"Now you know how we felt when Obama was in the White House."

I've started asking people "Defend this without referring to Obama or Clinton." Shuts them up every time.
posted by Etrigan at 6:10 AM on May 16, 2017 [148 favorites]


If anyone wants a little hopeful anecdata vis-a-vis family conservatives, my mom revealed this weekend that she's becoming ever so slightly--dare I say it?--woke. She was always #nevertrump, and voted Johnson, but then admitted to me that if she'd thought that Trump had any chance of winning, she would have held her nose for HRC. But this weekend as we were chatting, she admitted that she had no idea he'd be this bad (I did, as I sobbed in her kitchen on November 9, and she and dad told me I was totally overreacting, everything would be fine). And then we started talking about public schools and she expressed something I've never heard her express before: empathy for poor black students and their families, and an understanding that it's a little more complicated than "those people just don't care about education" and/or "the city schools are all cesspits of incompetence" and that factors such as parents working multiple jobs and not having had good educations themselves, and the daily trauma of poverty make educating disadvantaged students much more difficult and expensive than suburban white kids. I didn't point out how different her rhetoric was than in the past so as to not scare her off, but I was really pleasantly surprised. It gives me hope that I can continue to subtly try and move the needle with her and might actually be successful.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:10 AM on May 16, 2017 [70 favorites]


I am beginning to believe poll tests would no longer disadvantage minority populations...and finding them really fucking tempting.

Of course, it all depends on who sets and assesses them. If the people responsible for drawing up electoral boundaries do, the tests are going to have exactly the role that they did in the Jim Crow era. And is there a way from the American political situation now (i.e., hyper-partisan beggar-my-neighbour) to having a meaningfully impartial and verifiably neutral process for even something as mathematically verifiable as electoral boundaries, let alone poll tests?
posted by acb at 6:13 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Anybody see a resurgence in big-ass flags on people's houses? I'm starting to out of my back window. Maybe it's a Memorial Day thing?
posted by angrycat at 6:13 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


tbh, more important than passing a general knowledge exam, all candidates should be thoroughly screened for psychopathy

Psychopaths would be put forward; after all, the rationale would go, when we need to make an omelet, we don't want some snowflake who'll shrink away from breaking eggs.

And even if they were screened out, wouldn't this just advantage the sorts of psychopaths who can conceal their psychopathy better, the shameless liars and manipulators who understand just enough to convincingly wear an empathetic-human skinsuit?
posted by acb at 6:15 AM on May 16, 2017


And even if they were screened out, wouldn't this just advantage the sorts of psychopaths who can conceal their psychopathy better, the shameless liars and manipulators who understand just enough to convincingly wear an empathetic-human skinsuit?

this is why you should fund my kickstarter for a working voight-kampff test
posted by murphy slaw at 6:18 AM on May 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


"Miko you should publish that analysis."

Yeah, this line was especially good: "The alliance of the cynical and self-interested with the cheerfully ignorant creates a perfect medium for the interference of global corruption."

She's not really saying anything that hasn't been said before and I also think that this isn't quite as specific to American culture. But I think it's getting at something essentially true.

Speaking for myself, this goes the heart of why I very deeply distrust populism, either leftist or rightist. I think it's revealing that my relationship with leftist populism is complex -- I can't always bring myself to disavow it or object, because, hey, it's the unleashing of the anger of the exploited classes. That's good, right? But I fear that this should give us some insight into how much of the establishment right, all across the world, has handled this rise of right-wing populism. They believe that the underlying sentiment is correct and worthy, they just hope to channel the energy into what they think is productive while somehow keeping it in check and preventing populism's excesses.

I am deeply uncomfortable with any analysis that smacks of self-congratulations for those of us who consider ourselves informed and intelligent. There is much danger in that, too. But the fact remains that in any given polity the level of knowledge, awareness, and engagement is going to be quite low for a substantial portion even when they have strong opinions and grievances. Demagogues use that potent miasma for themselves, and there's usually a long list of the cynical (who see themselves as having good intentions) who will go along with this as a means to an end. But we all pay the price for this -- there's a reason why we build structures and institutions that formalize decision making and the use of power, they mediate the civic id. But when the polity is captured by the civic id, bad shit happens. And Trump personifies this.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 6:21 AM on May 16, 2017 [19 favorites]


Which is so weird, because I'm 95% sure she actually is a Cylon. I'm not being glib, either: would anyone be super surprised if it turned out that she was actually a remarkably life-like robot?

Interactive
Variable
Accelerationist
Numatic
Kompromat
Automaton
posted by Servo5678 at 6:24 AM on May 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


festering pustule in a wig. i like it!
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 6:25 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Apparently, according to TD and POL, Seth Rich is the real story. I feel dirty for going there, but supposedly, according to Fox News, he was a DNC worker who had forwarded emails to Wikileaks before being murdered. You can imagine where they go from there. Here is the BS that Fox News is spewing:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/16/slain-dnc-staffer-had-contact-with-wikileaks-investigator-says.html

It is the #2 trending item on Twitter, so I imagine we will be hearing about it if/when Trump gives the news enough air to report on something else.
posted by bootlegpop at 6:27 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


when all this is over, look for my paper "Are Qualia A Necessary Qualification?: The President As P-Zombie"
posted by murphy slaw at 6:30 AM on May 16, 2017 [23 favorites]




I haven't been participating in these threads since the election, but I have been reading and it is my understanding that we can ask for things for our birthdays. Today is my birthday and I would like some consequences for Trump. I don't even really care what they are, I just want him to experience something negative in response to his actions. Of course consequences are not likely to occur today, but hey, it's my birthday, I can wish.
posted by altopower at 6:35 AM on May 16, 2017 [85 favorites]


With the Seth Rich bullshit (the investigator has a history of inventing ridiculous right-wing lies) forced to the forefront of one of the two media universes, I feel like this is a very dangerous moment. If there were to be a real, concerted effort to use state violence to Lock Her Up, this might be the perfect time for it. If nothing else, we're looking at an excellent chance of Trump and his administration openly calling Hillary a murderer in the next day or two. The coordination alone of the right-wing media is incredibly ominous and is inching us ever closer to the Really Bad Thing, whatever it turns out to be.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:36 AM on May 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


Instead of poll taxes, and with an eye to how Trump got his start in life, there should be tests and requirements (service corps?) for inheriting wealth or otherwise gaining control of large sums of money.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:36 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Good enough for government work"
Sorry to repeat that derogatory phrase, but one would hope that The President would at least be up to that standard.
Maybe someday, we'll get back to that.
posted by MtDewd at 6:36 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


You have to eat a cake or something.
posted by Artw at 6:37 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


"I am beginning to believe poll tests would no longer..."

Way back when I was young and my politics were closer to yours, I thought this whole idea through very carefully and realized that any disenfranchisement is, in principle undemocratic, and not just prima facie, but also on a deeper level because voters are inevitably self-interested -- it's nearly impossible to get the franchised to care about the well-being of the disenfranchised and so by a vicious cycle any barrier to vote builds inertia for more barriers and, once created, those barriers are next-to-impossible to remove. This is true of any sort of test for voting competency. It sounds good, superficially, but is profoundly anti-democratic in practice.

And, of course, this is also true of vote suppression. Most of the folk who meet voter ID requirements can't really imagine being in the position of those who don't and so, in their voting, don't exhibit much sympathy for the concerns of those affected by such laws.

I've extended this reasoning to voting age. I think children should be able to vote for the same reasons I think that all adults in the polity should be able to vote. It doesn't matter that children don't have a lot of knowledge or experience because we've already decided that those aren't requirements for competency to vote for adults. I am, I suppose, a proponent of radical democracy -- I think enfranchisement should be universal for all members of a polity. Barriers to voting are both in theory and in practice bad for democracy. And if your argument is that maybe this is a failure of democracy, because people are generally ignorant and stupid, then you'll really need to just bite the bullet and decide that you believe there should be a ruling class of some kind and make your peace with what it means to define and endorse a ruling class.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 6:38 AM on May 16, 2017 [23 favorites]


Is "openly scheduled meeting" the new "certified letter"? You can do anything you want as long as it's on the schedule?
posted by AndrewInDC at 6:39 AM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Is "openly scheduled meeting" the new "certified letter"? You can do anything you want as long as it's on the schedule?

Is it in my "independently verified Outlook calendar"?
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:40 AM on May 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


mitch mcconnell has made a statement on trump's leak, and he clearly a) gives no fucks b) has not checked twitter today:
I read the Washington Post story and I read General McMasters response, which tends to refute the story, rebut the story. I think we could do with a little less drama from the White House on a lot of things so that we can focus on our agenda, which is deregulations, tax reform, repealing and replacing Obamacare.
posted by murphy slaw at 6:40 AM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


How can something be the new something when the old something is like a week old? It's so stressful.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:41 AM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


AP blog: A senior European intelligence official tells The Associated Press that his country might stop sharing information with the United States if it confirms President Donald Trump shared classified details with Russian officials.

The official said Tuesday that doing so "could be a risk for our sources."

posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:42 AM on May 16, 2017 [29 favorites]


Josh Marshall on predicting Trump's response.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:44 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


could be a risk for our sources

in the trump era of plain speaking, i wish people would phrase this shit as "these leaks will get our spies, who are human people, killed"
posted by murphy slaw at 6:45 AM on May 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


look it says right there on his Google calendar:

10:00 a.m. – treason
11:00 a.m. - Watch Fox News
12:00 p.m. - Lunch - hamburger, well done, with utensils

what's the problem?
posted by entropicamericana at 6:45 AM on May 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


Even as the world burns, it is still incredible to me that McConnell can actually come out and say things that actually do seem to describe their agenda pretty succinctly, and that his ass hasn't been fired just for that.
posted by aspersioncast at 6:45 AM on May 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


And you know what really makes me grind my teeth? My mother-in-law this weekend said, "Now you know how we felt when Obama was in the White House."

And that is why I haven't spoken to or seen my mother-in-law since Nov 9, 2016.
posted by photoslob at 6:48 AM on May 16, 2017 [33 favorites]


McConnell's statements aren't incredible if he never expects to face a fair and democratic election ever again.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:49 AM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Fusion has the story behind 'Pay Trump Bribes Here', the protest graffiti projected on Trump's DC hotel last night (and noted above).
In addition to the “Bribes” message, [artist/filmmaker Robin] Bell also projected the text of the U.S. Constitution’s Emoluments Clause, which prevents elected officials from benefiting from gifts provided by foreign governments—a law, critics contend, that Trump’s hotel clearly violates, given its proximity to the White House and the possibility for foreign dignitaries using the facility to curry favor with the president.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:49 AM on May 16, 2017 [24 favorites]


How can something be the new something when the old something is like a week old? It's so stressful.

For anyone who's experiencing similar types of fatigue, stress, anxiety. Might I direct you to this post: It’s a Beautiful Day in Twitch’s Neighborhood: All 886 ‘Mister Rogers’ Episodes to Stream
posted by Fizz at 6:50 AM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


Regarding Seth Rich, I am confident that the broader things being implied by the right wing media and sworn to be accurate by the crackpots hanging out under the rocks where the worst posters congregate are BS. What I am not confident about is that the aforementioned people, and even possibly Trump, won't take what the BS investigator said and the fact that Wikileaks offered a financial reward as "proof" that justifies further BS reaching or, in the case of Trump, even legal action. At best, it's pizzagate 2 or clintongate 545,805. At worst, who knows what crackpots, both in and out of office, will latch onto and what stupidities they will commit in the name of their own delusions.
posted by bootlegpop at 6:51 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Now you know how we felt when Obama was in the White House."

Driving Miss Daisy is pretty much the same movie as Talladega Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby.
posted by srboisvert at 6:54 AM on May 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


CNN has posted a preview of Anderson Cooper's interview with Sally Yates:

Sally Yates: Russians had 'real leverage' over Michael Flynn
posted by Room 641-A at 6:56 AM on May 16, 2017 [24 favorites]


And now my Bernie or Bust FB friends are latching onto Fox New's Seth Rich story. SMH
posted by drezdn at 7:06 AM on May 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


I dropped my Bernie or Bust "friends." Highly recommended.
posted by spitbull at 7:09 AM on May 16, 2017 [33 favorites]


It's important to make formal politics thread birthday requests. I forgot to and Comey was fired on my birthday. The universe went the other way
posted by gerstle at 7:09 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Mod note: Some comments removed. Enough with the movie riffing, gang -- sorry, the threads already fill up fast enough.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:09 AM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Oh, also, someone in the DC police at some point was told to "stand down"

DC Police say Wheeler’s assertion that detectives instructed to stand down regarding Rich case is false.

So now the family and the cops have called BS. Unless you think the family is covering up their own son's death, as well as the DC police... So of course the rightwing nutjobs will keep nutting.
posted by chris24 at 7:09 AM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


These are our American sins returning on our heads, our dumbass, jingoistic, simplistic chickens coming home to roost.

Miko, this entire comment is devastating and brain-annhilating in its accuracy. Like there's nothing left to say. This is it. This is what happened. The problem isn't Russia, at the end, it's us.

The phrase "civil war 2, electric boogaloo" keeps floating around in I head, and it's not nearly as funny as I'd like.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:10 AM on May 16, 2017 [28 favorites]


in the trump era of plain speaking, i wish people would phrase this shit as "these leaks will get our spies, who are human people, killed"

I said something similar to this in my morning senator call.

Then I worried that somehow they'd twist it into me making threats and come to my house to punish me, because we don't live in a normal world any more.
posted by winna at 7:11 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Obamacare Repeal Could Hurt Vulnerable Republicans, Poll Says
Vulnerable Republican members of Congress may have damaged their reelection chances in 2018 by voting to repeal the Affordable Care Act, according to a new poll by a Democratic-affiliated firm.

In a poll of 15 swing districts held by Republicans, 52% of voters who know that their representative voted for the American Health Care Act said they would prefer to elect a Democrat next year, while just 40% said they would prefer to reelect their current representative.

Conducted by the liberal super PACs Priorities USA Action and Patriot Majority, the poll also showed that the more voters know about the bill, the more they dislike it. In the 15 congressional districts where the survey was taken, 45% said they know a lot about the bill; of those, 34% have a favorable opinion of it and 65% are unfavorable.
posted by chris24 at 7:15 AM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]





Then I worried that somehow they'd twist it


I'm guessing they'll just mentally twist it into thinking you want to find the leakers that Trump is looking for.
posted by drezdn at 7:17 AM on May 16, 2017


CNN article on their front page: Disclosure of classified info has some wondering whether Trump is in over his head.

Yeah, for some fucking broad definitions of "some" and "wondering" and "over his head". /flips table
posted by lydhre at 7:20 AM on May 16, 2017 [27 favorites]


The PI that made the Seth Rich claims was also on O'Reilly claiming there were over 150 lesbian gangs roaming DC and indoctrinating youths into homosexuality.

(Later, when he was off the air, he clarified that meant there are over 150 gangs of all kinds in the area. Not that anyone heard this clarification, or that it makes the core story any less absurd.)
posted by bluecore at 7:21 AM on May 16, 2017 [18 favorites]


These are our American sins returning on our heads, our dumbass, jingoistic, simplistic chickens coming home to roost.

How many times can we say we're guilty, we suck before we figure out the solution to the billion-ways-described problem? Isn't this more hand wringing?

Some of us are looking for the map out of the pit rather than rehashing why we are here in the first place. Some of us more than get that it's our own fault.

Is the only way out really to just play by the rules the current rulers have invalidated? Do we even know whether there will be any fucking elections in 2018? What if civil war really is the only way out? What is the difference between people dying because their healthcare is stripped and people dying because they're fighting for not having it stripped?
posted by yoga at 7:22 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


PPP Polls is out with some new polling today too:
Democrats now have a 49-38 lead overall on the generic Congressional ballot, up from 47-41 a month ago. Even more notable though is that among voters who say they're 'very excited' to turn out in the 2018 election, the Democratic lead balloons to 27 points at 61-34.

Only 40% of voters approve of the job Trump is doing to 54% who disapprove. For the first time we find more voters (48%) in support of impeaching Trump than there are (41%) opposed to the idea.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:22 AM on May 16, 2017 [47 favorites]


So, uh, where can I meet some of these lesbian gangs? Asking for a friend.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:23 AM on May 16, 2017 [63 favorites]


Joan Walsh, The Nation: Pramila Jayapal Wants Democrats to Know That Resistance Is Not Enough - "The freshman congresswoman from Washington thinks that this is the time when progressive ideas can go mainstream."
“We’re not only an opposition party; we’re a proposition party. As people reject what they see in front of them, they can turn to us.”

The Nation:
What does it feel like to be part of the resistance as a member of Congress, not as an activist? Are moderate and conservative Democrats feeling the heat?

Jayapal: Oh, they absolutely are. Progressives have been working for this; for moderates and conservatives, there’s a little bit of fear that the left is gaining power, that people’s involvement means they can’t take certain votes in silence. And when there are splits in the caucus, people recognize they will be held accountable. It’s generally very positive for Democrats, but I know there are conservative Democrats who worry about what will happen if they skew toward the base. For Republicans, they’re terrified at the new wave of power they’re seeing in their town halls.

posted by ZeusHumms at 7:25 AM on May 16, 2017 [21 favorites]


Today's Fox and Friends featured Ken Starr talking about Vince Foster. They're really pushing the Clinton Body Count Deflection strategy.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:27 AM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


For anyone who's experiencing similar types of fatigue, stress, anxiety. Might I direct you to this post: It’s a Beautiful Day in Twitch’s Neighborhood: All 886 ‘Mister Rogers’ Episodes to Stream

Just this moment on Twitch, a trio of folksingers were singing "This Land Is My Land" for Mr. Rogers and the Postman while another lady was making chalk drawings on the easel. I do feel a little better.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:27 AM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Ugh, #SethRich is over 200K tweets. The noise machine is in full gear.
posted by diogenes at 7:30 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


curious how these far-right conspiracy theories always seem to gain momentum overnight while America sleeps

Yeah, it's almost as though social media is being manipulated by some other entity...
posted by diogenes at 7:32 AM on May 16, 2017 [46 favorites]


some other entity in a different time zone....
posted by bootlegpop at 7:33 AM on May 16, 2017 [12 favorites]




Today's Fox and Friends featured Ken Starr talking about Vince Foster. They're really pushing the Clinton Body Count Deflection strategy.

And of course there's no discussion of Starr's new career in rape apologia.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:35 AM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


According to Greg Myre on NPR, the things the president tells to someone without security clearance are automatically declassified, which would explain why the Washington Post later had access to the information. Can anyone confirm?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:35 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Ugh, #SethRich is over 200K tweets. The noise machine is in full gear.

Everywhere that's not heavily moderated right wing safe spaces has people dog piling on with the family refuting the assertion.
posted by Talez at 7:39 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


The crazification factor holds true yet again. Slightly more than one out of four Americans believe that Hillary had Seth Rich murdered before he could give WikiLeaks the HD from the secret email server from the embassy safe in Benghazi containing her Vince Foster murder confession, orders to confiscate all guns, invoices from pizza shops for child prostitutes and Barry Soetero's REAL birth certificate? Yep. If anything 27% seems a bit low.

The American right succeeded beyond their dreams at what they wanted, which was to drown the public in bullshit and deregulation until they became ungovernable by anyone rational. Demolition of the federal government by rendering those who choose its representatives incapable of doing anything but what they're told. What is true or good is unimportant compared to what fits a narrative. It's a National Enquirer nation now.
posted by delfin at 7:39 AM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


I Know One of the Sources: What sets this story apart for me, at least, is that I know one of the sources. And the source is solidly supportive of President Trump, or at least has been and was during Campaign 2016. But the President will not take any internal criticism, no matter how politely it is given. He does not want advice, cannot be corrected, and is too insecure to see any constructive feedback as anything other than an attack.

So some of the sources are left with no other option but to go to the media, leak the story, and hope that the intense blowback gives the President a swift kick in the butt. Perhaps then he will recognize he screwed up. The President cares vastly more about what the press says than what his advisers say. That is a real problem and one his advisers are having to recognize and use, even if it causes messy stories to get outside the White House perimeter.

posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:40 AM on May 16, 2017 [45 favorites]


I just read about the potency of accidental fentanyl exposure, and my first thought was "huh, that makes an interesting alternative to polonium..."

Russia has already weaponized it. They used it in during the Moscow theater hostage crisis in 2002. The Chechen terrorists killed 2 hostages, the gas the Russian police used killed 130+.

[true]
posted by ryanrs at 7:40 AM on May 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


So, uh, where can I meet some of these lesbian gangs? Asking for a friend.

I too would like to join the local chapter. Straight people keep stealing our clothes and hair (do you know what we had to do to our hair to be visible to each other? Nobody liked it! It was annoying and high mainetance and fucking dumb. And then they stole that too! Fucking stop it, straight women), so at this point I'm fine with a face tattoo or whatever. Just point me to the ladies.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:42 AM on May 16, 2017 [20 favorites]


Obviously, Michael Jackson knew too much, and the Russkies had him bumped off.
posted by acb at 7:43 AM on May 16, 2017


The New Yorker has posted a preview of Ryan Lizza's interview with Sally Yates.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:43 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


I just read about the potency of accidental fentanyl exposure, and my first thought was "huh, that makes an interesting alternative to polonium..."

It also has the benefit of smearing the target with drug use allegations.
posted by jaduncan at 7:44 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


>>> According to Greg Myre on NPR, the things the president tells to someone without security clearance are automatically declassified, which would explain why the Washington Post later had access to the information. Can anyone confirm?

It depends. Unlike virtually everyone else, the President can certainly disclose whatever he wants to whoever he wants without it being a crime. But declassification is a process, and things can be disclosed without becoming declassified. Just because the information is "out there" in the hands of another party doesn't mean that there is no incentive to restrict it further.

In this case, the information is still sensitive and the intelligence community still wants it kept under wraps. WaPo's source(s) made that clear when they asked the paper to omit details of the information in their story.
posted by AndrewInDC at 7:44 AM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Normally (for certain values of 'normal') Trump uses multiple periods to signify that a second tweet will follow to complete his statement

I like to think he was about to compose the tweet with the viciously damning evidence, but was then distracted by a butterfly flapping lazily by the window.
posted by Mayor West at 7:47 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


The weirdest thing about all this is how no one is trying to hide it! Trump is like "Yeah, I shared classified info with the Russians. And I fired Comey for trying to investigate my connections with Russia. So what?"

And meanwhile the Russians were "loud" in their hacking attempts (Comey's word) and didn't even try to hide that it was them. Right after the election they had officials saying "Yes, we have been in contact with Trump's people, of course." And they published those pictures of the meeting with Lavrov, which let the world know that both Kislyak and a Russian photographer attended, which we wouldn't have known otherwise.

WTF? Why be so open about it? Are they just trying to embarrass Republicans who keep trying to defend Trump? Like is that the whole plan?

Or is there more to it -- something to do with money laundering, maybe, that we're all being distracted from?

It's got me thinking about this story some more: Russian money-laundering details remain in the dark as US settles fraud case

That's a money laundering story which is not, on its face, associated with Trump at all. But the guy who uncovered it, Sergei Magnitsky, died in a Russian prison, and a major witness, Nikolai Gorokhov, was pushed from a fourth floor window in Moscow right before he was supposed to testify. He lived, but it's not clear to me that he ever testified.

"The trial was set to start on Monday, but late Friday night, federal prosecutors in New York announced they settled the case with Prevezon, the company accused of buying up 'high-end commercial space and luxury apartments' with laundered money."

The case provides evidence of corruption at every level of the Russian government: "According to US investigators, corrupt Russian government officials allegedly teamed up with a powerful Russian organized crime organization to pull off that country's largest ever tax fraud.

Idle speculation: what if the whole point of getting Trump elected was to bury this case or another related one? And now that Bharara is out and the case is settled, Russia is happy to burn their asset, especially if they can set fire to the American political system while doing so?

Still doesn't explain why they were so "loud" about the hacking in the first place, though. Or why they thought the whole thing was worth doing even if Trump didn't win, as nobody seemed to think he would...
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:53 AM on May 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


Spicer is off camera for all of the briefing today, it's only McMaster. Because sending the National Security Adviser out to do the daily briefing is a normal thing that happens in a White House that's not in full on meltdown.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:54 AM on May 16, 2017 [28 favorites]


Normally (for certain values of 'normal') Trump uses multiple periods to signify that a second tweet will follow to complete his statement

I like to think he was about to compose the tweet with the viciously damning evidence, but was then distracted by a butterfly flapping lazily by the window.


Maybe it's like Joseph of Arimathea writing out the word "Aaaaaarrrgh..."
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:56 AM on May 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


I've extended this reasoning to voting age. I think children should be able to vote for the same reasons I think that all adults in the polity should be able to vote. It doesn't matter that children don't have a lot of knowledge or experience because we've already decided that those aren't requirements for competency to vote for adults. I am, I suppose, a proponent of radical democracy -- I think enfranchisement should be universal for all members of a polity.

Personally, I'd like to see the voting age drop to 13 or 14. Below that, no.

When it comes to adult matters, pre-teens don't generally function or think independently. They lack the capacity and ability to do so. Until they reach their teen years, nearly all children look to their parent(s), family members or teachers for guidance on how they should act in certain situations -- and those adults tell them what to do. This is part of our society: parents control nearly every aspect of their children's lives for a number of years, and that authoritarian control only lessens in scope either when the kids become able to think and act for themselves in important matters, or when they become emotionally, mentally or even physically capable of pushing back against it.

Let them grow up enough to a point where they are (at least theoretically) capable of making choices independently of their parents and then give them the responsibility.
posted by zarq at 7:57 AM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Josh Marshall (TPM): McConnell Makes It Plain
People have been saying for months that establishment Republicans had decided that they’d let Trump do almost literally anything as long as he agreed to sign a big tax cut and help repeal Obamacare. And now McConnell, faced with the ultimate consequence of this moral desertion, is happy to say it out loud.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:57 AM on May 16, 2017 [44 favorites]


Miko: We have to blame ourselves. We overlooked the love of ignorance and shallowness and hoped/expected our better angels to prevail.

Plus the Republicans 1) gerrymandered districts to win, and when that wasn't enough, they 2) made punishing Voter ID laws that predominantly impacted voters who generally vote for Democrats.

It wasn't just hoping for better angels to prevail - we had the numbers, but the GOP changed the rules in their favor.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:58 AM on May 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


Working too hard can give you a Kislyak-ak-ak-ak-ak

Sorry; just had to get that out of my head
posted by yhbc at 7:58 AM on May 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


Paul Ryan in holding pieces of Post-Trump rubble... "But we were so close to tax cuts for the wealthy!"
posted by drezdn at 7:59 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Idle speculation: what if the whole point of getting Trump elected was to bury this case or another related one?

I still hold that just about everyone was surprised that Trump actually won. I'm pretty certain that the Russian's end goal was to harass Clinton and degrade trust and faith in the US political system and that what's going on now is merely an unexpected bonus that they're playing by ear.
posted by Candleman at 8:00 AM on May 16, 2017 [28 favorites]


I am beginning to believe poll tests would no longer disadvantage minority populations...and finding them really fucking tempting.

the solution is not to bar the ignorant from having a voice. that will be twisted with the utmost ease toward whatever ends keep the powerful in power, and more people will become more ignorant.

the solution is to educate voters, not to make the voting pool smaller.

(i wonder what our society would look like if we actually gave public school teachers salaries and benefits commensurate with our professed adoration for them.)
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 8:00 AM on May 16, 2017 [32 favorites]


Plus the Republicans 1) gerrymandered districts to win, and when that wasn't enough, they 2) made punishing Voter ID laws that predominantly impacted voters who generally vote for Democrats.


They also got Citizen's United over-turned, making it much easier for big money to play politics, and then handicapped the ability of many Unions' to take advantage of the new rules at the state level.
posted by drezdn at 8:04 AM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Plus the Republicans 1) gerrymandered districts to win, and when that wasn't enough, they 2) made punishing Voter ID laws that predominantly impacted voters who generally vote for Democrats.

They also got Citizen's United over-turned, making it much easier for big money to play politics, and then handicapped the ability of many Unions' to take advantage of the new rules at the state level.


In addition to gerrymandering and voter id laws, Republicans have pushed to eliminate early voting, eliminate automatic registration and disenfranchise people with convictions who have finished serving out their sentences.
posted by zarq at 8:12 AM on May 16, 2017 [13 favorites]




Calling your Senators and Representatives today regarding the betrayal of current intelligence to the Russian Government? Have some talking points:

- Latest outrage must be treated for what it is: a complete and total dereliction of his oath of office he supposedly swore to uphold

- Actions endangers the delicate process of gathering human intelligence, jeopardizes sensitive relationships, and most importantly risks real human lives

- Consider the the betrayal of a highly sensitive and current intelligence source to a hostile nation is "adhering to [the several States'] Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort"

- Expect* [Sen/Rep] to condemn these actions in strongest possible terms

- Expect* [Sen/Rep] support an independent special prosecutor on the Trump-Russia connection

- Expect* [Sen/Rep] to call for and support the resignation or impeachment and conviction of the entire Administration

- No Congressional business should proceed uncontested until We the People understand the truth about Trump and Russia

* If your legislator has done any of these things, thank them instead!

*sigh* I'm running out of superlatives to describe how pissed I am
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:18 AM on May 16, 2017 [64 favorites]


Working too hard can give you a Kislyak-ak-ak-ak-ak
You oughta know by now.


You can share some intel almost anytime
With Russians with whom you are chummy
posted by mikepop at 8:20 AM on May 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


Thomas E. Ricks: In 2006 H.R. McMaster was mad at me, as I’m sure he is at the Washington Post now — and why that worries me a lot
As I recall, my discussions with McMaster continued over the course of a day or two. He didn’t dispute the basic approach of my article. He was just unhappy with the way I had presented it, because it had made his life more difficult.

I mention this because when I saw him on television on Monday evening, I heard exactly the same low-key, aggrieved tone. In a brief appearance outside the White House, he denounced the Washington Post’s story about President Donald Trump boasting to Russians about the top secret, highly classified intelligence he had about terrorism operations and the Middle East. As McMaster spoke, I recognized that weary, dutiful voice. He was being a good soldier.

That’s not a good sign. When he was a colonel in Iraq, it was one thing for him to defend the honor of his regiment. But in his current position, he can’t just be a good soldier.

The worrisome thing is, he knows this.
[...]
McMaster also knows Greg Jaffe, one of the Post reporters on the story. I also know Jaffe well. He succeeded me on the Pentagon beat at two newspapers — first the Wall Street Journal and then the Post. McMaster surely know that Jaffe is a careful, studious, even cautious reporter. What he writes, you can take to the bank.

So my guess is that when McMaster was trotted out before the cameras last night, he gave up a little piece of his soul. Eliot Cohen, himself a veteran of high office, warns of “the moment when these high officials can no longer recognize their own characters for what they once were.” My gut feeling is that McMaster won’t agree to keep on doing that for very long.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:23 AM on May 16, 2017 [34 favorites]


UH OH JOHN MCCAIN IS DEEPLY CONCERNED

when he reaches "deeply troubled" he may change his vote on a measure that is assured to pass anyway
posted by murphy slaw at 8:23 AM on May 16, 2017 [41 favorites]


Pizzagater Fuckface Jack Posobiec on twitter: I will ask about #SethRich at the White House Press Briefing today
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:26 AM on May 16, 2017


My husband and I have developed a sort of cocktail hour ritual that the more busy one that day asks the less busy one that day for a report on whatever crazy shit went down in the politics. Yesterday, the conclusion was that it had been an unusually quiet and peaceful day in D.C., which could surely only mean that something even more absolutely bonkers was about to go down any minute now.

Checked the internet before bed and, voila.

This is a terrifyingly nonsensical timeline but apparently it does have a few reliable rules.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 8:26 AM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


My husband and I have developed a sort of cocktail hour ritual that the more busy one that day asks the less busy one that day for a report on whatever crazy shit went down in the politics. Yesterday, the conclusion was that it had been an unusually quiet and peaceful day in D.C., which could surely only mean that something even more absolutely bonkers was about to go down any minute now.

My fiancé works two nights a week, Monday and Tuesday. I have had the pleasure of informing him, both last and this week, about the immense amount of shit that went down while he was teaching his students.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:28 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


UH OH JOHN MCCAIN IS DEEPLY CONCERNED

there goes that maverick being all mavericky again, doin mavericky stuff and things
posted by entropicamericana at 8:35 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Duffelblog is on it again with Defense Secretary Mattis Running Out Of Things In Office To Throw After Latest Trump Leaks[satire]
According to defense officials, Mattis has thus far thrown a number of lamps, a couple hundred books, a few chairs, and various awards and commendations that were hanging on his wall after hearing of problems out of the White House. On late Monday evening Mattis was seen throwing his prized copy of “Meditations” by Marcus Aurelius — which he refers to in times of personal crises — right out the window in a fit of rage that reverberated around every ring of the Pentagon.

“This fucking guy gave class info on ISIS to the fucking Russians?” Mattis reportedly said, according to witnesses. “Hey I’ve got a great idea, let’s tell them where our subs are too, because we all just want to be friends and sharing is caring or some happy horseshit."
posted by corb at 8:37 AM on May 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


there goes that maverick being all mavericky again, doin mavericky stuff and things

I don't know what's sadder, McCain's reputation of being a maverick or that being deeply concerned about Trump makes you a legitimate maverick in the GOP world.
posted by Talez at 8:38 AM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


one of the goals of the russian attack has been to stir up further hatred between americans and totally undermine our trust in the workings of our government.

those fault lines have existed for a while now. the abandonment of the fairness doctrine, combined with the increasing saturation of media into our daily lives, combined with the fracturing of news sources, combined (most insidiously) with the steady amalgamation of news + entertainment, have given americans two vastly different lenses on what's going on around us, to the point that we physically inhabit the same world but our minds and opinions operate in increasingly divergent realities. this is the consequence of freedom of the press manifesting in a capitalist market: the goal is not to present the news of the world. the goal is to sell your product, to stir up passion and rage and fear and self-righteousness so that we keep coming back for more.

now we all get to choose which sources we believe. we get to choose which lenses we hold in front of our eyes. our ingestion of information about the world has become a matter of personal identification with a brand, tied to our judgments about what that brand says about us, no different from the shoes we buy or the music we listen to. the more emotionally invested we get in identifying with one media source or another, the more we associate our information filters with our own identities. which makes it really goddamn difficult to change our worldview.

(it is no surprise that putin and his inner circle of ex-soviet intelligence workers, so intimately acquainted with the power of propaganda, found a way to exploit this deepening divide.)
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 8:44 AM on May 16, 2017 [24 favorites]


Trump's oath of office promised that he would "to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States", and it's clear his ability is fuck-all, so maybe that's a loophole?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:45 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Are we still pretending Mattis isn't the same traitorous anti-American fuck as the rest of the Trump administration and Republican establishment?
posted by dirigibleman at 8:45 AM on May 16, 2017 [19 favorites]


Here's a small ray of sunshine on a dark day: Friends of Merrick Garland knocking down idea he has any interest in FBI director job. (Twitter)
posted by scalefree at 8:46 AM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Pizzagater Fuckface Jack Posobiec on twitter: I will ask about #SethRich at the White House Press Briefing today

The real outrage here is that this asshole even has a White House press pass to begin with.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:49 AM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


McMaster briefing now live.
posted by joedan at 8:49 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm looking forward to the President doing "a Twitter forum with young people". I hope there are interesting questions!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:51 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


seriously at this point i am totally willing to disenfranchise myself by taking away the right to vote from white dudes
posted by murphy slaw at 8:54 AM on May 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


Duffelblog is on it again with Defense Secretary Mattis Running Out Of Things In Office To Throw After Latest Trump Leaks

"Unable to blow off steam by massacring thousands of civilians in violation of the Geneva Convention like he got away with in the Iraq War, Mattis' complete silence is said to be 'stern' and part of his faux-'warrior monk' image. Plans to 'bomb, bomb Iran' are reportedly ready to go, though, where he can continue to commit war crimes and inflict the same cruelty on a mass scale that his adoring followers choose to ignore because he's 'Mad Dog' and that's all that matters."

Oh, sorry was that not in Duffelblog's post? Huh, wonder where I got that then.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:56 AM on May 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


McMaster indeed says that the real story is people leaking this conversation to the press, despite a member of the Russian press being _in the room at the time of the conversation_.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:56 AM on May 16, 2017 [34 favorites]


McMaster confirms he is a soul-thrall of the Idiot God
posted by theodolite at 8:56 AM on May 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


For those who aren't watching McMaster: He's putting all of the blame on the leakers, and Trump has done no wrong. What a boot-licking embarrassment.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 8:56 AM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Come crawling faster
Obey your master
Your life burns faster
H.R. McMaster
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:57 AM on May 16, 2017 [65 favorites]


His speech patterns are already starting to resemble Spicertalk. "The conversation was, was wholly relevant to the conversation"
posted by theodolite at 8:57 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


So tl;dr: McMaster is Trump's fidget spinner.
posted by Talez at 9:00 AM on May 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


all the folks that trump will be talking to at NATO are sure going to be jazzed to find out that russia is our ally now.

i mean, that's the only context in which trump's comments could remotely be appropriate, right?
posted by murphy slaw at 9:00 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Christ. This is ridiculous. What are we going to do?"

"Road trip!"
President Donald Trump is scheduled to depart Friday on an 11-day, five-country tour that comes at a moment of major turmoil in his administration – and, as usual, he’ll be joined by a large traveling band of his top aides, who often stick close to the president for fear of being out of the loop, or diminished in power, if they stray from his side.

Son-in-law Jared Kushner, daughter Ivanka Trump, chief strategist Steve Bannon, chief of staff Reince Priebus, economic adviser Gary Cohn, deputy National Security Adviser Dina Powell, policy adviser Stephen Miller, press secretary Sean Spicer will all be along for major chunks of the trip, according to multiple White House officials. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster will also be along for the entirety of the trip.

Also among those traveling with the president: his trusted aide Hope Hicks, deputy press secretary Sarah Sanders and National Security Council spokesman Michael Anton, among others.
Kellyanne gets to house sit.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:03 AM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


McMaster: "We don't say what is classified, what is not classified."

yes actually that is what the white house does that is literally the institution that does that
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:03 AM on May 16, 2017 [52 favorites]


i mean, that's the only context in which trump's comments could remotely be appropriate, right?

No, not even then. If Pakistan, or Jordan, or Turkey have a secret double agent inside ISIS feeding them intel, and they agree to share it with the US, it's widely inappropriate for the US President to tell even the President of the UK or Germany or France about that specific source. It's not our source, the other intelligence service did not tell us to tell France or Germany, or they would be telling France or Germany.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:03 AM on May 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


I had to stop watching or I was going to start throwing things.

I mean, he's not wrong, specifically within the chain of command hierarchy, that the President has the right to do whatever stupid information sharing he wants, but he's leaving out the big flashing "the President is stark raving insane" important context.
posted by corb at 9:03 AM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


McMaster: Leaking info to Russia isn't a problem, leaks are a problem! (real, paraphrased)
posted by TypographicalError at 9:03 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


I love how the president's ignorance is a selling point for them.
posted by Shutter at 9:06 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]




Is the "other topic" going to be the fake Sean story? Is the husband of a TOTES NOT A RUSSIAN SPY on Spicer's official agenda?
posted by Yowser at 9:07 AM on May 16, 2017


President Donald Trump is scheduled to depart Friday on an 11-day, five-country tour that comes at a moment of major turmoil in his administration – and, as usual, he’ll be joined by a large traveling band of his top aides, who often stick close to the president for fear of being out of the loop, or diminished in power, if they stray from his side.

Son-in-law Jared Kushner, daughter Ivanka Trump, chief strategist Steve Bannon, chief of staff Reince Priebus, economic adviser Gary Cohn, deputy National Security Adviser Dina Powell, policy adviser Stephen Miller, press secretary Sean Spicer will all be along for major chunks of the trip, according to multiple White House officials. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster will also be along for the entirety of the trip.


Can we just change the locks while they're out?
posted by jason_steakums at 9:08 AM on May 16, 2017 [45 favorites]


What is Trump's thrall over these people?
posted by drezdn at 9:09 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Oh good, a Twitter forum. Definitely not going to be a Hitler Youth moment, given that Twitter got rid of all the Nazis youth.
posted by Yowser at 9:09 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


What is Trump's thrall over these people?

The electoral college
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:09 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


What is Trump's thrall over these people?

He's the only person who can put you in the Cabinet and thereby ensure that you will never be without a job again.
posted by Etrigan at 9:11 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Mattis: They told me that you had gone totally insane, and that your methods were unsound.
Trump: Are my methods unsound?
Mattis: I don't see any method at all, sir.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:12 AM on May 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


Can the national media bring up Flynn more and connect the dots that THIS WHITE HOUSE DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO PREVENT FOREIGN POWERS FROM HACKING OUR INTELLIGENCE?

With every new shitstorm we forget about the last one, but we cannot forget Flynn and what that scandal represents. There is no objective way to look at this + last week's episode and not conclude that the White House does not understand how to protect our nation's vital intelligence. Only going to get worse from here.

FOLLOW (THE) FLYNN.
posted by andruwjones26 at 9:13 AM on May 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


McMaster paying lip service to Muslim, Christian, and Jewish unity so that the Muslim Flight Ban can slip by the courts.

WE SEE YOU, MCMASTER.
posted by Yowser at 9:14 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


THIS WHITE HOUSE DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO PREVENT STOP HANDING FOREIGN POWERS FROM HACKING OUR INTELLIGENCE
posted by murphy slaw at 9:17 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


From Josh Marshall's The McMaster Statement from yesterday evening:
Even though I think these statements are far more general than they may seem, it’s just as true that McMaster is putting his credibility on the line for Trump. [...]

The most reasonable take on this is that McMaster’s statement can’t really deny the details of the story. But the story is of sufficient gravity that he has felt the need to deceive the public, putting his own credibility on the line and destroying it in one moment.

If the story falls apart, perhaps he’ll be vindicated. But it looks like he just sacrificed his credibility on the altar of Trump.
McMaster is the latest dignity wraith in a long line of people who get splattered with fetid shit by being too near to the Douche Canoe. So much for being one of the "adults" in this so-called administration.

NB: This piece was written before this disaster of a presser that McMaster just held.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:19 AM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Vox: “We won’t get similar information again”: an intel expert on the real costs of Trump’s breach
Zack Beauchamp

How do you think this will affect the president’s already rocky relationship with the intelligence community?

Paul Pillar

There are going to be buildings full of rolled eyes and expressions of exasperation.

I think there will be additional hard thoughts — I expect there were already a lot of these thoughts — about just what and how information can be presented to the White House, and specifically to the president. You can’t cut the president out ... the president is assumed to have every clearance there is.

Nonetheless, given that this particular president doesn’t seem to have much of an appetite for a large volume of information anyway, I think there’s going to be thoughts about restricting the flow even more. Then you immediately run into questions of, well, how do you do this with the president?

That’s one set of thoughts. There will certainly be conversations — if there haven’t been already — between senior intelligence officials and the likes of [National Security Adviser] Gen. [H.R.] McMaster to discuss this as a problem. And I’m sure McMaster, even though he said the requisite things trying to downplay this publicly, realizes this was a big problem.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:21 AM on May 16, 2017 [19 favorites]


McCain's Facebook post about his ~deep concern~ has lots of comments that are about 10:1 OMG FUCKING DO SOMETHING vs. ur a traitor Trump 4ever drain the swamp MAGA

But man, the Trumpers are like this impenetrable wall of WHARRGARBLE where in order to explain how they are wrong you first have to walk them back about thirty steps, explain some fundamental principles of intelligence gathering, classification, cybersecurity, protocol, and about fifty years of American political history, and yeah. They won't even budge to step 1. No way are they getting to step 30 before the heat death of the sun.

Unless and until Trump, on camera, in front of god and everyone, does something deeply, deeply humiliating and emasculating, his base will never desert him. They are way, way too far down the rabbit hole.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:21 AM on May 16, 2017 [24 favorites]


>here's a fun point that i failed to catch:
> IMO, not enough attention being paid to the fact that Trump supposedly dropped classified intel in front of a Russian photographer too.
> -- @HashtagGriswold

No worries, everyone knows that the photographer was an FSB agent, so fully vetted to receive intel of even the highest possible classification . . .
posted by flug at 9:21 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Whatever happened to all those 2nd Amendment People who were going to lead the revolt against a corrupt and autocratic executive branch?

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE WATERED WITH THE BLOOD OF TYRANTS*






*Offer may not apply during republican administration.
posted by Cookiebastard at 9:24 AM on May 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


(Also, I wanted to recommend the not-overtly-political podcast Weird History--formerly Interesting Times--and especially its recent 12-part series on Italian Fascism, and the 2-part explainer on the Know-Nothings from before the election. In both cases, he never says the word "Trump" but he is totally talking about Trump and it's all very lolsob.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:26 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump to give speech on Islam

lol whut?
posted by spitbull at 9:26 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Prediction: Saudi Arabia will switch to the Euro as a result of Trump's visit.
posted by Yowser at 9:27 AM on May 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


Maybe it turns out this whole Middle Eastern tour was a plan by the Deep State to get him assassinated by salafists.
posted by Copronymus at 9:27 AM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


OH DEAR GOD NOOOOOOO: "#BREAKING Trump to give speech on Islam in Saudi Arabia: White House"

brb turning my house into a giant jiffy pop a la real genius
posted by entropicamericana at 9:28 AM on May 16, 2017 [33 favorites]


According to the Betsy DeVos "Popular Quotatation Reader," the correct quote is: "The coal mine of liberty must be fracked with liberal tears."
posted by Behemoth at 9:28 AM on May 16, 2017 [31 favorites]


Also: "A true patriot is in your downline until the Rapture."
posted by Kitty Stardust at 9:29 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


President Donald Trump is scheduled to depart Friday on an 11-day, five-country tour

if somebody could please change the locks on friday afternoon, that would be great thanks
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 9:30 AM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


I hope he has a nice poster of Muhammad to display at his speech.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 9:31 AM on May 16, 2017 [13 favorites]




Maybe it turns out this whole Middle Eastern tour was a plan by the Deep State to get him assassinated by salafists.

It really seems like a terrible mistake to have Trump tour the Middle East. Like one that could potentially have World War III level consequences. Hopefully, I am wrong.
posted by drezdn at 9:32 AM on May 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


> OH DEAR GOD NOOOOOOO: "#BREAKING Trump to give speech on Islam in Saudi Arabia: White House"

I give up. I was listening to Pod Save America this morning and they used the term "confetti of crises" (I think?), and that sort of captures my feeling, except it's more like a firehose of sewage.

Anyway, here's Josh Marshall still following up on McMaster's briefing about the last crisis:

"... McMaster’s point seemed to be that President Trump was not even in a position to reveal sources and methods because he didn’t know them. This is too cute by half. No one ever suggested he did. All the reporting has suggested that Trump revealed details from which sources and methods could be inferred. The possibility this does raise is that Trump simply didn’t realize the information he mentioned was that sensitive or really, really secret. We simply don’t know."

Ha. Ha. Ha. No, I'm laughing, really.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:33 AM on May 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


Maybe they could change the locks before he gets out?
posted by Namlit at 9:33 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


(uncomfortable silence as trump offers king salman of the house of saud a virginia ham as a friendship offering)
posted by murphy slaw at 9:34 AM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Him not knowing the provenance of information he spontaneously decides to share would make the problem *worse*, not better. It is beyond insane that this is their DEFENSE.
posted by gerryblog at 9:34 AM on May 16, 2017 [23 favorites]


The Republicans aren't going to turn on Trump unless their voting base turns away from him. Their voting base is getting its news from FOX News and Breidbart, and believes that Trump isn't doing anything that Obama didn't do, that and/or Vince Foster/Pizzagate/there-are-no-Wookiees-on-Endor, therefore everything is OK. This is clearly displacement activity, given that Trump has acknowledged that he shared classified intelligence with the Russians; the point is to think about something else to avoid the question whether the Supreme Alpha Male of one's tribe could be a traitor, thus undermining the very foundations of one's orderly world-view.

Sooner or later, American Republicans will have to address the question of Trump giving intelligence to the Russians and resolve this lump of cognitive dissonance. This could lead to a broad acceptance of the far-right idea that America is allied with the Russians in a global war against liberalism/cosmopolitanism/secularism/Cultural Marxism, and has always been allied with the conservative, God-fearing Russians. This will become Republican platform, and it will become the case that it has always been Republican platform, and the opposite was just mistaken dalliances with the false gods of liberalism.
posted by acb at 9:34 AM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


It really seems like a terrible mistake to have Trump tour the Middle East.

It's only a mistake if you don't want WWIII. All of the people around him fap to that very idea every night, so.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:34 AM on May 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


This screenshot is classic FOX News: Would you like some cheesecake with your whine?
posted by octobersurprise at 9:35 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


speech on Islam in Saudi Arabia

There's no risk. It will be 94% about how he won the election and fake news and emails.
posted by Namlit at 9:36 AM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


OH DEAR GOD NOOOOOOO: "#BREAKING Trump to give speech on Islam in Saudi Arabia: White House"

They're doing it to change the subject from Russia. They are going to destabilize the Middle East further and directly provoke the real possibility of war and state sponsored terrorism for political expediency, and it will work. They will call him "brave."
posted by schadenfrau at 9:37 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


And if any Muslims get angry about whatever ignorant, inflammatory garbage is certain to come out of his mouth, it justifies restricting their movements even further, both domestically and abroad.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:39 AM on May 16, 2017


Yes, the Russians are peculiarly loud.

I couldn't speculate as to why the Russians do the things they do because haven't been paying attn. because must watch Better Call Saul, must rewatch Breaking Bad, must crush candy, but it seems to me that the loud ways they do the things is Putin's bleakly nauseous PR. Polonium and defenestration are spectacularly loud ways of eliminating problems.
posted by Don Pepino at 9:39 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Vox: Hill Republicans aren't racing to Trump's side on classified intel scandal - "But most aren't yet criticizing him either."
When the news broke, no GOP leaders in the House or Senate had released statements supporting Trump after the disclosure, which was confirmed by multiple media outlets. House Speaker Paul Ryan expressed hope, through a spokesperson, for a “full explanation” from the administration as to what had happened.

Other Republicans were cautious — but notably not rushing to support Trump.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:39 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


$10 and a gf cake says Islam speech in Saudi Arabia idea came from the Russians.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:39 AM on May 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


OH DEAR GOD NOOOOOOO: "#BREAKING Trump to give speech on Islam in Saudi Arabia: White House"

Let's hope this story ends:

"...and he was never heard from again."
posted by zarq at 9:40 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Maybe they're trying to bait some rando into shooting down the plane.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:40 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


NATO are sure going to be jazzed to find out that russia is our ally now.

Lately I've been thinking about Why Not Me?, Al Franken's satirical novel about what a fucking disaster it would be if he, Al Franken, minor television celebrity with no relevant experience, were somehow elected president. (It was published in 1999, back when he was a gadfly instead of a well-regarded senator.)

President Franken ends up resigning after 144 increasingly erratic days in office, but the epilogue insists that his tenure "was not without its successes:"
For example, the complete and final dismantling of the anticompetitive Glass-Steagle Act paved the way for the total dominion of the financial services industry by giant insurance conglomerates that we enjoy today. The selection of Joseph Lieberman as the President's running-mate, and, therefore, sucessor made possible the nineteen-year-long Golden Era of the Lieberman Administration. The federally mandated inclusion of water-soluble bonding agents in chewing gum, an idea which President Franken conceived and executed during one of his manic highs, virtually eliminated unsightly gum stains from our cities' sidewalks. Finally, the expansion of NATO to include the Russian Federation, while controversial at the time, has proven to be a bulwark of stability in a changing world.
posted by Iridic at 9:40 AM on May 16, 2017 [30 favorites]


Other Republicans were cautious — but notably not rushing to support Trump.

The best we can hope for these days is that they don't rush to support him.

Fuck it, I'm out.
posted by Etrigan at 9:41 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


(uncomfortable silence as trump offers king salman of the house of saud a virginia ham as a friendship offering)

Nobody's gonna ask here whether they still can eat it, at least.
posted by Namlit at 9:41 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


::Shaking dice:: Blasphemy, blasphemy, come on blasphemy!
posted by Kitty Stardust at 9:42 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Dan Heyman, WaPo: I was arrested for asking Tom Price a question. I was just doing my job.
Why has my case resonated so widely? I think part of the reason is because it seems to confirm people’s worst fears about the erosion of a free press. They see public access closed down and journalists held in contempt and antipathy.

So when they see that a reporter has been arrested in the regular process of covering a news story, they get angry. They feel that an open, aggressive and honest press is almost sacred — a vital guardian of our freedoms. And they’re right: Asking questions shouldn’t get you put in an orange jumpsuit.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:42 AM on May 16, 2017 [25 favorites]


I have come around from conspiracy/11th dimensional chess to Trump's Razor/Dunning-Kruger/Theory of Mind as the likely driving force in this White House's behavior, but wouldn't a presidential trip to the Middle East be the perfect time for the Reichstag Fire event?
posted by jindc at 9:42 AM on May 16, 2017


No, we've still got a few months before that goes down.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:43 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


worse case scenario: something happens to him and he gets martyred by the right, congress passes patriot act 2: electric boogaloo and we fondly look back on today as the good ol' days

sleep tight!
posted by entropicamericana at 9:43 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


I have come around from conspiracy/11th dimensional chess to Trump's Razor/Dunning-Kruger/Theory of Mind as the likely driving force in this White House's behavior, but wouldn't a presidential trip to the Middle East be the perfect time for the Reichstag Fire event?

I think his staff has finally figured out a way rid themselves of him once and for all.
posted by zarq at 9:44 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


::Shaking dice:: Blasphemy, blasphemy, come on blasphemy!

"also i would like to offer this gold-plated pewter statue of the prophet mohammed as a symbol of the lasting bond between our two tremendous nations"
posted by murphy slaw at 9:45 AM on May 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


>here's a fun point that i failed to catch:
> IMO, not enough attention being paid to the fact that Trump supposedly dropped classified intel in front of a Russian photographer too.
> -- @HashtagGriswold


Trump's so truly upper class he can't even see the servants anymore.
posted by dng at 9:46 AM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


"also i would like to offer this gold-plated pewter statue of the prophet mohammed as a symbol of the lasting bond between our two tremendous nations"

"Also doubles as a bacon dispenser."
posted by zarq at 9:46 AM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


He'll probably insist on seeing the Kaaba or something, and piss off all of Islam by desecrating their sacred monument.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:48 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


OH DEAR GOD NOOOOOOO: "#BREAKING Trump to give speech on Islam in Saudi Arabia: White House"

OK now we're definitely living in a Norman Spinrad novel.
posted by Dr Dracator at 9:49 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE WATERED WITH THE BLOOD OF TYRANTS*

*Offer may not apply during republican administration.


During some Republican administrations, the Tree of Liberty may be watered with the urine of the Russian hookers of a tyrant.
posted by XMLicious at 9:50 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


"also i would like to offer this gold-plated pewter statue of the prophet mohammed as a symbol of the lasting bond between our two tremendous nations"

"Also doubles as a bacon dispenser."

Can you imagine how giddy his base would be if that happened?
posted by contraption at 9:50 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


"in the ensuing chaos, trump climbed atop the Kaaba, hung off the edge upside down, and kissed it, mistaking it for the Blarney Stone"
posted by murphy slaw at 9:51 AM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


You're defining tyrant wrong in this context . When the right uses that word, they mean brown people.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:51 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


[Re: Seth Rich] The hate and excitement is electric throughout the conservative blogosphere and on social media because this is it, the smoking gun that will finally bring down the Clintons, Obama, Podesta, Little Caesar, and destroy the evil DNC once and for all.

Would that it were only right wingers. Fans of comedian and regular Chapo Trap House contributor James Adomian might find it depressing (if not shocking) to read some of his recent twitter comments. He's pretty much gone full-on Alex Jones about this "conspiracy".

posted by Atom Eyes at 9:51 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Welp, if nothing else I just got a new fire lit under my ass about getting my son's Canadian citizenship paperwork straightened out.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:55 AM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Of course Trump pronounces Erdogan incorrectly
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:55 AM on May 16, 2017


It's only been a week since Trump fired Comey. This is exhausting.
posted by piyushnz at 9:57 AM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Trump's Islam speech will just be him saying "You really should consider Christianity."
posted by drezdn at 9:58 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Slate: Reliable Sources - Why we should believe the anonymous officials in the Washington Post’s leak story over McMaster, Tillerson, and Trump.
The dispute over the White House meeting isn’t just between anonymous sources and named public officials. It’s between specific claims and evasive nondenials. The Post’s sources have made factual allegations that can be checked. The administration hasn’t.

In the search for truth, falsifiable claims are a gesture of good faith. They stake the source’s credibility with the Post, and the Post’s credibility with its readers, on something that can be investigated. But McMaster and other Trump defenders don’t engage such claims. Instead, they issue “on-the-record” statements couched in cagey language that can’t be checked. These statements are worse than anonymous. They are vacuous.
Emphasis mine. In the end, their statements dodge accountability while pretending to address it.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:59 AM on May 16, 2017 [37 favorites]


I've never even heard of this Seth Rich thing. The first two pages of google results are all right-wing propaganda outlets. Oh man. Is this going to be Vince Foster 2.0?
posted by Kitty Stardust at 10:00 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump's Islam speech will just be him saying "You really should consider Christianity."

Feel free to workshop this.
posted by drezdn at 10:00 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I expect the Saudi speech will be a bland scripted thing about how Islam is a great and ancient faith, we must all join hands to fight terror, etc which everyone will forget because of something insane happening immediately before/after
posted by theodolite at 10:00 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump's Islam speech will just be him saying "You really should consider Christianity."

Are we 100 percent certain that Trump knows Islam is a religion and not an ethnicity?
posted by Etrigan at 10:01 AM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


DNC Chair Tom Perez to Meet With Pro-Life Democrats
Democratic National Committee Chair Tom Perez plans to meet with pro-life group Democrats for Life of America, amid an ongoing controversy within the party over whether and to what extent Democrats should pursue voters who oppose abortion. Democrats for Life advocates for pro-life Democrats and describes itself as “the pro-life voice of the Democratic Party.”

The meeting, which the DNC is setting up at the group’s request, is one of several conversations that Perez is having with pro-choice and pro-life Democrats, an aide to Perez confirmed to The Atlantic. As part of that outreach, Perez has spoken with Democratic elected officials and party leaders, and held a meeting earlier this month with women’s groups. The effort comes at a time when prominent Democrats are attempting to walk a fine line between affirming their party’s pro-choice platform and suggesting that there is room in the party for pro-life voters and candidates.

[...]

Democratic leaders in Congress, meanwhile, have argued even more explicitly that there is space within the party for pro-life voters and candidates.

House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi said last month that “of course” Democrats can be pro-life, while Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer said that Democrats are a “big-tent party.” Pelosi later told The Washington Post that Democrats are “not a rubber-stamp party,” adding that there are people in her “family, extended family, [who] are not-pro choice. You think I’m kicking them out of the Democratic Party?” Pelosi and Schumer both have 100 percent ratings from Planned Parenthood Action Fund’s congressional scorecard.
posted by indubitable at 10:02 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Wouldn't that sort of speech drive some of the right crazy though?
posted by drezdn at 10:02 AM on May 16, 2017


Oh that makes me fucking sick. MY BODY AUTONOMY IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. How many times do we have to say it? If the Democrats betray us on this, there is no hope for them.
posted by agregoli at 10:03 AM on May 16, 2017 [54 favorites]


I expect Trump to talk about Prosperity Gospel, only with awkward word substitutions.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:03 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Would that it were only right wingers. Fans of comedian and regular Chapo Trap House contributor James Adomian might find it depressing (if not shocking) to read some of his recent twitter comments. He's pretty much gone full-on Alex Jones about this "conspiracy".

Not really. He's been talking about his love for Bernie Sanders (most recently regarding Sanders polling as the most popular politician in the country, but before that how Sanders was robbed of a victory in) the 'rigged' Democratic primary and the suppression of the Good Word About Democratic Socialism for a quite while now. It should be absolutely no surprise to anyone who has been paying attention that Adomian would latch on to a story/conspiracy theory that supported any of those points.
posted by zarq at 10:04 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Folks, people are saying a lot about Islam today, lots of people. And I just want to let everyone know that I love the Islams, and the Islams love me."
posted by Copronymus at 10:05 AM on May 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


"Mohammad is someone people have been talking about more and more."
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:07 AM on May 16, 2017 [46 favorites]


Wouldn't that sort of speech drive some of the right crazy though?

Trump likes to please whoever's currently standing in front of him, and the base has always been perfectly happy to tell themselves (correctly) he doesn't really mean it whenever he says something that's 180 degrees opposite of what he said earlier.
posted by theodolite at 10:07 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


I was all set to joke that Trump was no Julius Caesar, or even Pompey, but was more of a Marcus Crassus. Now he's heading off to the Middle East to win glory and adulation.

Note: NEVER GO FULL CRASSUS.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 10:07 AM on May 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


"Jihad is a great word, and it's one I think you're going to hear a lot." [fake(so far)]
posted by wabbittwax at 10:08 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Apparently The Jackass will be giving a joint statement with the dictator Erdogan.

Possible topics:

A) Boasting about crowd sizes
B) Boasting about electoral college "victory"
C) Ignorant statements about Islam and Muslim people
D) A discussion about being right to give Lavrov and Kislyak highly classified intelligence
E) Open disclosure of highly classified, current intelligence on camera to the world
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:08 AM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


"trump tower has the best halal taco bowls, believe me"
posted by murphy slaw at 10:08 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


If pro-life Democrats are able to make compromises to literally prevent the country from going to shit, they are welcome. Pro-choice Democrats can meet them halfway, for example they can make the concession that no one will ever force pro-life Democrats to have abortions.
posted by Behemoth at 10:08 AM on May 16, 2017 [60 favorites]


Are we 100 percent certain that Trump knows Islam is a religion and not an ethnicity?

Frankly, Etrigan, I'm not 100% sure of anything right now.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:09 AM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


McMaster said that Trump will be at a ceremony, along with 50 other Muslim leaders, to open a new anti-religious extremism center in Riyadh. His speech will probably try to draw some sort of rhetorical line between Muslim extremism (in Trump parlance, "bad dudes") and other Muslims ("good dudes.") Remember that Trump will say pretty much anything, even if it conflicts with things he's previously said.

So he'll try to be a peacemaker, and distinguish between Muslim terrorists and everyone else, in his uniquely inarticulate way. The details of how he's going to fuck that up remain to be seen.
posted by zarq at 10:09 AM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Buzzfeed: Do You Drink? Work Odd Hours? The FBI Says You Could Be An "Insider Threat" : The closely-held 2014 training slides — titled "The Insider Threat: Don’t Be a Victim" — were obtained by BuzzFeed News from the FBI in response to a three-year-old Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request. The 28 slides, which contain quizzes and comic strips, seem designed to get federal workers to snitch on each other.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:10 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Legendary what?
posted by all about eevee at 10:12 AM on May 16, 2017


Frankly, Etrigan, I'm not 100% sure of anything right now.
Including that I'm not hooked up to a VR rig and the programmers are just screwing with me.
posted by mfu at 10:13 AM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


theodolite: His speech patterns are already starting to resemble Spicertalk. "The conversation was, was wholly relevant to the conversation"

That tic could be his brain resisting, then failing to hinder him, from saying what he was about to say, which might have been closer to the truth.

Don't worry, McMaster -- with repeated lies, the brain becomes less and less sensitive to dishonesty, supporting ever larger acts of dishonesty (NPR social science piece, March 28, 2017).
posted by filthy light thief at 10:14 AM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


Erdogan is now praising Trump for his "legendary triumph" in the "aftermath of the elections" while talking about our "common democratic values."

PPP Polls is out with some new polling today too:

Also has these fun facts:

By 8 point margin, 49/41, voters wish Hillary Clinton was President instead of Trump. Including 10% of Trump voters
By 16 point margin, 55/39, voters wish Barack Obama was still POTUS instead of Trump, including 13% of Trump voters
Just 38% of voters say they consider Trump to be honest, 55% say they don't. A majority describe Trump as a 'liar'
Only 43% of voters think Trump is actually going to make it through his whole term, 45% don't think he will
posted by zachlipton at 10:14 AM on May 16, 2017 [33 favorites]


"Pro life" isn't a thing. There is supporting forced birth or opposing forced birth. Those are the only two available positions.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:15 AM on May 16, 2017 [65 favorites]


McMaster said that Trump will be at a ceremony, along with 50 other Muslim leaders, to open a new anti-religious extremism center in Riyadh.

ok this is definitely the funniest spin that i've read all week
posted by indubitable at 10:15 AM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Erdogan congratulated Trump on his "legendary triumph" on his election.

Trump was doing his self-righteous squinty preening pose again.
posted by zarq at 10:15 AM on May 16, 2017


Cheers, zachlipton! :D
posted by zarq at 10:16 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


ok this is definitely the funniest spin that i've read all week

?
posted by zarq at 10:18 AM on May 16, 2017


Pro-choice Democrats can meet them halfway, for example they can make the concession that no one will ever force pro-life Democrats to have abortions.
That's not a concession, for what it's worth. That's fundamental. Pro-choice means pro-choice. We support women's reproductive choices, whether that means continuing or terminating a pregnancy. Forced abortion is an affront to everything pro-choice people stand for.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:18 AM on May 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


Calling your Senators and Representatives today regarding the betrayal of current intelligence to the Russian Government? Have some talking points:

I didn't have it in me today for blow-by-blow talking points. I just called the offices of McCain and Flake to ask staffers whether the senators believe that Trump's continued presidency is in the best interests of the United States.

They couldn't say.
posted by compartment at 10:19 AM on May 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


McMaster said that Trump will be at a ceremony, along with 50 other Muslim leaders, to open a new anti-religious extremism center in Riyadh.

In Saudi Arabia, being an atheist is legally a terrorist act. Saudi Arabia has been moving to make the United Nations' human-rights committee (on which it sits) push the inalienable human right to not have one's religion insulted. I don't hold out much hope that this centre will be any less sinister.
posted by acb at 10:19 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


*looks at fbi's snitch slides*

so what trump is doing would be classified as sabotage then, right?

ps: i don't think those slides are authentic; they're not in comic sans
posted by entropicamericana at 10:20 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


"Pro life" isn't a thing. There is supporting forced birth or opposing forced birth. Those are the only two available positions.

Screw it, let's move the Overton window so goddamned far that we drive this subject completely out of public discourse.

I hereby declare my candidacy for the President of the United States, running solely on the platform that bodily autonomy is an antiquated notion, babies are gross, and abortions will be mandatory for all people, men and women alike, on their 18th birthday.
posted by Mayor West at 10:20 AM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


> If pro-life Democrats are able to make compromises to literally prevent the country from going to shit, they are welcome

Right. Tom Perez meeting with Democrats for Life is barely newsworthy -- it's his job to meet with the various constituencies within his party, and like it or not, anti-choicers are one of them. I expect that he'll offer platitudes about compromise, but no change to the party's commitment to reproductive freedom, and certainly no cover for legislators who express their pro-life views in their voting record. But I also expect certain folks to seize on the fact that he's even meeting with them as evidence that he's a neoliberal sellout.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:20 AM on May 16, 2017 [33 favorites]


zarq, I don't mean to say that you're spinning this here, just that the very idea of "a center promoting moderation in religion" opening in Riyadh is absurd on its face
posted by indubitable at 10:21 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


What the what? Exclusive: Kimberly Guilfoyle says she’s talking with Trump administration about press secretary job [Gavin Newsom's ex]
Kimberly Guilfoyle, the former first lady of San Francisco and current Fox News host, is in conversations with the Trump administration about becoming White House press secretary, she said in an exclusive interview with the Bay Area News Group Monday night.
...
“Sean Spicer is a very nice man and a patriot; he’s dedicated himself to this public service,” she said. “Very tough position he’s in — I wish him the best, and I know he puts a lot of effort into it.”
Why would she speak publicly about this? While Spicer has the job?

Also, the President mispronounced Erdoğan's name over and over again; waiting on a supercut.
posted by zachlipton at 10:22 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


> ... the very idea of ____ is absurd on its face

So, you're saying it's perfect for 2017, then?
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:23 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Why would she speak publicly about this? While Spicer has the job?

because trump told her that he already told spicer, in order to humiliate him in public before turning down guilfoyle for the job

[guess]
posted by murphy slaw at 10:23 AM on May 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


I read "anti-religious extremism center" as a center that opposes religion and promotes extremism.
posted by Behemoth at 10:23 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


In what is surprisingly better news than the James Adomian update:

Fox News military analyst slams GOP for ‘reflexive’ defense of ‘egregious’ Trump actions

It's this guy:
Peters, who in the past was temporarily suspended from Fox for calling former President Barack Obama a “p*ssy” on air, wrote that he’s been sickened by the GOP’s total lack of interest in getting to the bottom of what Russia did to interfere with the 2016 presidential election.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:23 AM on May 16, 2017 [20 favorites]


That's not a concession, for what it's worth. That's fundamental. Pro-choice means pro-choice. We support women's reproductive choices, whether that means continuing or terminating a pregnancy. Forced abortion is an affront to everything pro-choice people stand for.

See, the problem with the progressive side is that we play too nice. The Right stake out their ambit claim of wanting to ban abortion and execute those who perform it as murderers, but we just want everybody to get along. They don't get their end goal, but get to close down clinics, put humiliating tests along the way, and stigmatise those who have abortions. The Right fight dirty, and if we're going to win, so must we; there must be no more Mr. Nice Guy.

From now on, we must push for mandatory abortions for everyone, whether or not they're pregnant, or even female, and push hard. Then, and only then, can we grudgingly make concessions.
posted by acb at 10:24 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Sean Spicer is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:24 AM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


I just called the offices of McCain and Flake to ask staffers whether the senators believe that Trump's continued presidency is in the best interests of the United States.

Stealing this for when i call Roy Blunt.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 10:24 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Why would she speak publicly about this? While Spicer has the job?

If she hasn't been offered the job already, Trump might appreciate the brazen-ness.
posted by drezdn at 10:25 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Forced abortion is an affront to everything pro-choice people stand for.

Just to be clear, my comment was facetious.
posted by Behemoth at 10:25 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Trump's planned 'private visit' to Western Wall creates stir in Israel
On Monday, however, Israel’s Channel Two News reported that members of a U.S. advance team preparing the presidential tour told Israeli representatives that the Western Wall is not part of Israeli territory, therefore Israel could not be involved in planning that part of Trump’s trip.

While it is customary for visiting dignitaries to go to the Western Wall — the outer wall of the raised esplanade that is called the Temple Mount by Jews and the Haram al-Sharif by Muslims — U.S. presidents usually defer the visit because that part of Jerusalem sits on territory that was under Jordanian control before 1967.

If Trump does go to the wall, he will be the first incumbent U.S. president to do so.

While out scouting the site with U.S. representatives, the Israeli team requested that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu accompany Trump and his family to the wall. The Americans refused, saying it was to be a “private visit.”

Then, according to the Channel Two report, two members of the U.S. team told the Israeli team to leave, that they wanted to be there alone.

“This isn’t your territory. This is in the West Bank. It is a private visit by the president, and it’s not your business,” a U.S. representative reportedly told the Israelis.

Netanyahu’s office were shocked to hear the statement, said an official speaking anonymously because he was not authorized to discuss the matter.
OK then. Guess I need to double check my Trump Disaster Bingo card.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:25 AM on May 16, 2017 [22 favorites]


The "good" news about the last week is that I haven't heard any mention in the press about the Syrian airstrikes. That was (mostly) viewed as a positive for Trump, so I guess it's a net gain that all his self-sabotage is hurting his "I can be Presidential too, Ma!" narrative.
posted by Tevin at 10:25 AM on May 16, 2017


how many years ago were those airstrikes, anyway
posted by murphy slaw at 10:26 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


soren_lorensen: Unless and until Trump, on camera, in front of god and everyone, does something deeply, deeply humiliating and emasculating, his base will never desert him.

I just realized most who area against Trump keep hoping that "surely this" will undo him, looking for him to go too far in the trajectory he has currently taken, hoping that his stalwart supporters will finally desert him.

I think that it's more likely they'd leave if he became more moderate at this point. I remember a Samantha Bee segment where a white lady was excited about Trump because, in so many words, he was "our bully." His supporters want the Strong Man, for a range of reasons ("we're finally being Alpha Males," "he says the [awful] things I want to say but can't," etc.)

If he started to actually work across the isle, or even court moderate Republicans; if he stopped wildly tweeting his every feeling and thought and coordinated with anyone; if he didn't have to prove he was Alpha Dude but could quietly listen, his crazifaction base would lose their shit.

Unless the conservative talking heads said "look how presidential he has become!" Except they make money off of fear and division, not hope and unification.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:27 AM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


"a center promoting moderation in religion" opening in Riyadh is absurd on its face


Why is that? It's where such a center is needed most.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:27 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


So he's negging the Israelis, just to make sure they don't start feeling confident about where they stand?
posted by acb at 10:28 AM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


zarq, I don't mean to say that you're spinning this here, just that the very idea of "a center promoting moderation in religion" opening in Riyadh is absurd on its face

Yeah, totally agree. Apostasy is still punishable by death there.
posted by zarq at 10:28 AM on May 16, 2017


"a center promoting moderation in religion" opening in Riyadh is absurd on its face

Why is that? It's where such a center is needed most.


Which is exactly why it's not going to actually be that thing.
posted by Etrigan at 10:29 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Just to be clear, my comment was facetious.
posted by Behemoth


I'd really rather people took the issue of abortion rights seriously and didn't make jokes or facetious comments about it. This stuff is really upsetting to me and this is not helping.
posted by agregoli at 10:29 AM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


Why is that? It's where such a center is needed most.

Sure. It is. But since both leaving Islam and anti-Muslim blasphemy is still punishable by death in Saudi Arabia, it is deeply hypocritical of them to be suddenly preaching religious moderation.
posted by zarq at 10:30 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Others have surely noticed this but the Venn overlap of Seth Rich and Bernie or Bust is pretty large according to my FB feed.
posted by misterpatrick at 10:33 AM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


the Israeli team requested that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu accompany Trump and his family to the wall. The Americans refused, saying it was to be a “private visit.

I mean, what. The. Fuck. Mods, can we get a record scratch sound effect, please?
posted by Room 641-A at 10:34 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Oh my god he's going to talk about how he could build a better wall, isn't he?
posted by Room 641-A at 10:34 AM on May 16, 2017 [20 favorites]


Ana Navarro Calls Out GOP: You’d Impeach Hillary Clinton Over This (HuffPo)
Navarro, a Republican strategist who has been a vocal opponent of Trump’s rise in the conservative movement, summed up Congressional Republicans’ subdued reaction to the report with two tweets:
Text of the tweets with links:

If Hillary Clinton leaked classified info to a Russian spook/diplomat, Republicans would rightly be drafting Articles of Impeachment N-O-W.

Pic of missing spine of most GOP elected leaders should be on side of milk cartons. Last seen Oct 2016. Abducted by a man wearing red tie.

posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:34 AM on May 16, 2017 [63 favorites]




So he's negging the Israelis, just to make sure they don't start feeling confident about where they stand?

He's being consistent. Actually, I may be wrong about that. Has he negged the Russians?
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:35 AM on May 16, 2017


Unless and until Trump, on camera, in front of god and everyone, does something deeply, deeply humiliating and emasculating, his base will never desert him. They are way, way too far down the rabbit hole.

He totally got his ass handed to him in a debate, and he knew it, to the point where tore up his notes on stage with an utterly defeated look on his face. The right whined about Crooked Hillary getting questions in advance. No one changed their mind about him.
posted by Caxton1476 at 10:37 AM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Trump: ‘I Am A Very Stupid Human Being’ [Onion]

‘“I am a big idiot,” said the president, adding that the reason he always messes everything up is that he is a dumb moron who doesn’t know better. “I do a lot of things that don’t make sense and are bad, and that’s because I don’t understand much. If I was smart, I would do stuff better, but I’m not. I’m really, really stupid.”’

Unfortunately, that parody is far more coherent than Trump's usual public utterances.
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:38 AM on May 16, 2017 [28 favorites]


Oh my. This trip to Israel is going to be an entirely new level of a disaster.
The classified intelligence that President Trump disclosed in a meeting last week with Russian officials at the White House was provided by Israel, according to a current and a former American official familiar with how the United States obtained the information. The revelation adds a potential diplomatic complication to the episode.
...
General McMaster added that the president, who he said was unaware of the source of the information, made a spur-of-the-moment decision to tell the Russians what he knew.

But General McMaster also appeared to acknowledge that Thomas P. Bossert, the assistant to the president for homeland security and counterterrorism, had called the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency after the meeting with the Russian officials. Other officials have said that the spy agencies were contacted to help contain the damage from the leak to the Russians.

General McMaster would not confirm that Mr. Bossert made the calls but suggested that if he did, he was acting “maybe from an overabundance of caution.”
posted by zachlipton at 10:38 AM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


They let the Russian news service sit in the room. They are apparently publishing that classified information.
posted by mrzarquon at 10:38 AM on May 16, 2017 [41 favorites]


Israel Was Source of Secret Intelligence That Trump Gave to Russians, Officials Say

well this should add a delicious undertone to the middle east tour
posted by murphy slaw at 10:39 AM on May 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


Who is going to share intelligence with the US now? It's like the name of my favorite band, Fifth Eye Blind
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:39 AM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


I'm not at all surprised by how the Admitted Sexual Predator's team responded to the Israeli government's request: The "administration" is stacked from the bottom with folks who promote rhetoric and act in ways that are virulently antisemitic.

Israel serves as a prop for the Groupies of Putin :(.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:41 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Cornyn has removed his name from contention for the FBI job.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:43 AM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


Er, I dropped the key sentence actually:
It also raises the possibility that the information could be passed to Iran, Russia’s close ally and Israel’s main threat in the Middle East.
McMaster's story makes no sense:

Trump decided to tell the Russians this information spontaneously, without any sort of process to clear it in advance
Trump didn't know where it came from or really what he was doing
It's no big deal, "wholly appropriate," "nothing that you would not know from open source reporting," none of us thought it was inappropriate
[One of the people under the category of "none of us thought it was inappropriate" is Dina Powell, who lied last night calling the reports "false"]
But after it happened, the heads of the NSA and CIA were notified and at least one member of the Senate Intelligence Committee was briefed, and they rushed to contain the damage

It can't be both a totally appropriate, routine nothingburger and a spontaneous unplanned disclosure of classified information to our adversary you rush to notify agency directors and a Senator about.
posted by zachlipton at 10:46 AM on May 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


Cornyn has removed his name from contention for the FBI job.

Cornyn is the worrrrrrst so I don't know whether I should be relieved that he won't be fucking up the FBI or annoyed that he's still half of the gruesome twosome that is the Texas Senate delegation.
posted by marshmallow peep at 10:46 AM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


only nixon could go to china, only a republican could blow up the entire diplomatic relationship with israel in two weeks
posted by murphy slaw at 10:46 AM on May 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


Oh that makes me fucking sick. MY BODY AUTONOMY IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. How many times do we have to say it? If the Democrats betray us on this, there is no hope for them.

Offering cover to misogynist policies is a betrayal, frankly.

We need our own fucking party.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:47 AM on May 16, 2017 [18 favorites]


FYI, PBS Newshour will be streaming the audio from Spicer's off-camera gaggle (scheduled for 1:30, still waiting for it to start).
posted by melissasaurus at 10:47 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


> Israel Was Source of Secret Intelligence That Trump Gave to Russians, Officials Say
> They let the Russian news service sit in the room. They are apparently publishing that classified information.


I mentioned John Le Carré nostalgia way upthread (e.g.), but this is too on the nose, isn't it? Israeli assets in deep cover inside ISIS being outed by a pompous idiot who doesn't even *understand* the gravity of what he's done, and takes to Twitter to brag about it afterwards?
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:47 AM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


classified information to our adversary

surely we've graduated to "frenemies" at this point
posted by murphy slaw at 10:47 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


“This isn’t your territory. This is in the West Bank. It is a private visit by the president, and it’s not your business,” a U.S. representative reportedly told the Israelis.

In 2010, the Obama administration issued a forceful condemnation of the official Palestinian position that the Wall has no link to Judaism. Obama spokesman P.J. Crowley said: "We have repeatedly raised with the Palestinian Authority leadership the need to consistently combat all forms of delegitimization of Israel, including denying historic Jewish connections to the land."

Either the Trump official was speaking out of turn, or they have officially decided that the Kotel, Judaism's holiest place, does not belong to Israel.
posted by zarq at 10:47 AM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Who is going to share intelligence with the US now?

he's far more effective than we could have hoped for from any Leftist at dismantling American power abroad. just, you know, unintentionally.
posted by indubitable at 10:48 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


We need our own fucking party.

Very well, I rescind my candidacy and wholeheartedly throw my support behind The Fucking Party.
posted by Mayor West at 10:48 AM on May 16, 2017 [39 favorites]


*sigh* At breakfast this morning I said that one way it will get way worse if it's it's Israel. But ha ha no that would be just too perfect and extra super duper dumb and extra super duper bad.

*sigh*
posted by Jalliah at 10:49 AM on May 16, 2017 [18 favorites]


As a reminder, this happened in January: US intel sources warn Israel against sharing secrets with Trump administration
The Americans implied that their Israeli colleagues should “be careful” as of January 20, Trump’s inauguration date, when transferring intelligence information to the White House and to the National Security Council (NSC), which is subject to the president. According to the Israelis who were present in the meeting, the Americans recommended that until it is made clear that Trump is not inappropriately connected to Russia and is not being extorted – Israel should avoid revealing sensitive sources to administration officials for fear the information would reach the Iranians.
Turns out that the Obama officials who warned the Israelis really knew what they were talking about.
posted by zachlipton at 10:49 AM on May 16, 2017 [118 favorites]


Who is going to share intelligence with the US now?

I'm sure that, between Breidbart and his Russian friends, he'll get enough to keep him satisfied.
posted by acb at 10:50 AM on May 16, 2017


We need our own fucking party.

as long as we understand that the way to get our own fucking party is to win the primaries for an existing fucking party
posted by murphy slaw at 10:50 AM on May 16, 2017 [27 favorites]


Israel Was Source of Secret Intelligence That Trump Gave to Russians, Officials Say [nyt]

the Israeli team requested that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu accompany Trump and his family to the wall. The Americans refused, saying it was to be a “private visit."


Moses G. Rosenberg, this is going to be a shitshow of a visit.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:51 AM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


So I'm not at all wishing for a military coup while Twitler is out of the country as that would be a bad, horrible, terrifying thing, but I'm kinda disturbed by how much less bad, horrible, and terrifying it is now than it used to be.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:51 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Mod note: One deleted. We've gone many rounds on the "what about pro-life dems" thing just recently, maybe folks can refer back to that rather than just restating the same positions again here?
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:52 AM on May 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


surely mad dog
posted by entropicamericana at 10:53 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


So is AIPAC going to at least have a chat with Trump?
posted by drezdn at 10:53 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Relevant Trump Mirror tweets:

June 4, 2014: Obama betrays Israel yet again, our strongest ally in the Middle East. He will recognize Hamas, breaking long standing US policy.

July 13, 2016: Is President Obama trying to destroy Israel with all his bad moves? Think about it and let me know!
posted by Mister Fabulous at 10:58 AM on May 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


Spicey time, audio-only edition

Does he think the briefing room cameras only work once per day or something?
posted by zachlipton at 11:01 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Just a quick thank you to everyone who makes these threads such a useful, often real-time, resource. I don't have time to thank specific folks by name, here, but please know I really appreciate your sharing of important updates on and analyses of the current clusterfuck(s). Thank you, friends.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:02 AM on May 16, 2017 [42 favorites]


Does he think the briefing room cameras only work once per day or something?

Maybe he's doing it live from the bushes.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:03 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


I thought last night that Israel was the most likely source for the information. I'm not pleased to be right, as I feel this is confirmation that we are now living in a Coen brothers movie and/or a game of Fiasco. I greatly enjoy both as forms of entertainment, but am not enjoying the live experience.
posted by nubs at 11:03 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


They let the Russian news service sit in the room. They are apparently publishing that classified information.

So what Trump said was no big deal. But they had to notify the NSA and CIA. And we need to focus on who leaked this information . And Russian media was in the room.

There's no possible way for those four things to simultaneously make sense!
posted by diogenes at 11:03 AM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


So in other anti-Semitism news, do you guys remember that alt-right torch rally in Charlottesville, VA lo those many moons days ago? Well, the mayor of Charlottesville, Mike Signer, had the audacity to criticize it, and...

Va. mayor slammed with anti-Semitic tweets after criticizing alt-right rally [WaPo]:
“Candlelight vigil against hate in Cville,” Signer (D) wrote on Twitter after the Sunday event. “These are the kind of ‘torches’ I like to see.”

The hopeful mood did not last long.

Signer, a Jewish author and lawyer who became mayor in January 2016, soon drew a hail of racist and anti-Semitic assaults on Twitter. They began Sunday and kept coming Monday.

“I smell Jew,” one message said. “If so, you are going back to Israel. But you will not stay in power here. Not for long.”
posted by Westringia F. at 11:03 AM on May 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


So I told Trump to massively piss off the FBI and Mossad on back to back days and he actually did it the absolute madman hahahaha
posted by theodolite at 11:07 AM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


So this Seth Rich investigation thing is even more bonkers, NBC News reports:
A spokesman for the family of a young Democratic National Committee staffer who was murdered last year said Tuesday that a conservative businessman had paid for a private investigation into the unsolved slaying that has ignited right-wing conspiracy theories. The businessman denies any involvement.

The Dallas-based financial adviser, Ed Butowsky, a Fox News contributor who has written articles for Breitbart News, contacted the parents of Seth Rich and urged them to hire a private investigator to look into the death of their 27-year-old son, who was shot and killed last July in what police say was a robbery gone wrong. Butowsky offered to cover the fees and connect them with an investigator, according to Brad Bauman, a spokesman for the family.

The Rich family hired the detective who had been recommended, Rod Wheeler, a former D.C. homicide detective who is also a Fox News contributor and who last month tweeted a photo of himself at the White House captioned, "Doing my part to Make America Great Again!!"
...
Butowsky denied that he played a role in the Rich case in an interview with NBC News. "I'm not involved with any of what you said," Butowsky said when reached on his cell phone Tuesday.

When asked if he has had any contact with Rich's family, Butowsky declined to answer. "This can't possibly go well," he said, before referring questions to Wheeler. "I didn't pay anybody. I didn't hire anybody."
Absolutely nothing about this "investigation" makes any sense at all.
posted by zachlipton at 11:08 AM on May 16, 2017 [25 favorites]


German Spiegel magazine is throwing some shade on their new Spiegel Daily page. It's paywalled but you'll see the pic and the headline and the top of the article. It's in German of course.

The headline reads: "Nicht ganz dicht" and it's a play on words. Literally it means "not fully sealed" (as in "leaky") but it's also a German colloquial expression describing someone as being dense or stupid similar to the expression "a few cards short of a full deck" in English.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 11:09 AM on May 16, 2017 [38 favorites]


So what Trump said was no big deal. But they had to notify the NSA and CIA. And we need to focus on who leaked this information . And Russian media was in the room.

There's no possible way for those four things to simultaneously make sense!


Don't forget "we can't even tell you, the press, whether the information was classified or not, because of how sensitive it is." (But the Russian press is A-OK.)
posted by teraflop at 11:09 AM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


C-Span does have video up of the Spicer presser, pointed at the wall.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:09 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]



He totally got his ass handed to him in a debate, and he knew it, to the point where tore up his notes on stage with an utterly defeated look on his face


I'm not taking about looking perturbed on tv and answering questions in a subjectively less than optimum manner. I'm talking shitting himself, inappropriately crying, or, like, losing war and surrendering. (Obvs I am hoping for options 1-2 rather than option 3.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:09 AM on May 16, 2017


Maybe Spicer's human mask is finally starting to slip.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:11 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


If Russia does report the info and it really is code word level I'm at a complete and utter loss at where to even begin at speculating what's going to happen.
Snowball something something and OMG wtf is as far as I get.
posted by Jalliah at 11:11 AM on May 16, 2017


I guess I'll just assume Spicer is wearing a clown suit.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:12 AM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


I was gonna go with "dog collar," but on reflection, why not both?
posted by Westringia F. at 11:14 AM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Is it possible that he told them to shut the cameras off, and they've disobeyed him?
posted by zarq at 11:14 AM on May 16, 2017


I'm at a complete and utter loss at where to even begin at speculating what's going to happen.

The answer, as always, is nothing. Because Republicans have sold out the country for tax cuts. Again, there is nothing, literally nothing at all, that Trump can do that they will not support. Nothing. Not sharing codewode classified information with the Russian ambassador, no disaster he causes in Jerusalem or anywhere else on his upcoming tour, no amount of outright and open bribery, there is no line that will cause Republicans to take any oversight action whatsoever beyond expressing "concerns" or "troubles". Not even starting a nuclear war with North Korea. Literally. Nothing.

The only way out of any of this is to defeat Republicans in 2018. That's it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:16 AM on May 16, 2017 [31 favorites]


What dipshit just asked if what is happening is that the deep state is trying to undermine Trump?
posted by prefpara at 11:16 AM on May 16, 2017


This press briefing with Spicer's voice and a picture of a wall isn't helping with my feeling that everything has become surreal.

He keeps saying the leaks are dangerous and a threat to national security. Russian media was in the room!!!
posted by diogenes at 11:16 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


If there was only three people in the room when Trump shared classified information with Russia - does that mean one of them is the leak to the press?
posted by INFJ at 11:17 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


What dipshit just asked if what is happening is that the deep state is trying to undermine Trump?

It was the headline on Breitbart last night, so let's just say you get two guesses.
posted by rhizome at 11:18 AM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


Glenn Thrush tweeted: "Since the briefing is off-air, a visual: Sean looks tired, very very subdued..."

Does not mention a costume.

He's not answering anything with any substance, anyway.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:19 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


C-SPAN did a previous audio-only briefing with a shot of some toy that's on the shelf in the back of the briefing room. The wall is a downright sane alternative.

Spicer is tying his tongue in knots trying to explain the Western Wall thing, but says that "the comment that was made yesterday" was "not the policy of the United States."
posted by zachlipton at 11:20 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


He's not answering anything with any substance, anyway.

I really want reporters to start asking why. Spicer gets to play piggy in the middle rather than an arm of the administration, to his benefit.
posted by rhizome at 11:21 AM on May 16, 2017


zachlipton: It can't be both a totally appropriate, routine nothingburger and a spontaneous unplanned disclosure of classified information to our adversary you rush to notify agency directors and a Senator about.

Ooooh, I love to do a little sidestep and lead the people on ... "Was that a yes or a no?" "It was a definite 'maybe'."

But as maudlin posted upthread: The Lawfare Blog has just posted a pretty exhaustive look at Trump's leak ... In short: it's not criminal but it is a big fucking deal

It's legal for the President to share whatever it is he or she wishes to share, but in this case it completely undermines IC operations in the US and in coordination with allied countries.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:21 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]




If there was only three people in the room when Trump shared classified information with Russia - does that mean one of them is the leak to the press?

I can already see Trump in the White House designated accusing parlor: "I suppose you're all wondering why I've gathered you here...

[dramatic pause, musical build-up]

...I wanted to show you this beautiful electoral vote map!"

[Benny Hill music, montage of nuclear explosions]
posted by Behemoth at 11:22 AM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


My first thought with stuff like this middle east trip is pretty much that I hope their security is somehow more competent than their literally-everything-else, because if that's the level of game their private security and appointees running the USSS bring, anything can happen and if anything happens, anything can happen. What a nightmare this loser has turned out to be.
posted by feloniousmonk at 11:23 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Here's a Google Translate link to the Tass story. There's no leaked info there, just an explainer of what's going on (in their own self-serving framing, of course.)
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:23 AM on May 16, 2017


Or that there were tapes of the meeting.

Or one of the people in the room mentioned it to someone else.
posted by drezdn at 11:24 AM on May 16, 2017


Spicer didn't say the Western Wall is in Israel, he said it "is clearly in Jerusalem." There's a significant difference there, whatever you personally think of the status of Jerusalem.
posted by zachlipton at 11:24 AM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]



The answer, as always, is nothing. Because Republicans have sold out the country for tax cuts. Again, there is nothing, literally nothing at all, that Trump can do that they will not support. Nothing. Not sharing codewode classified information with the Russian ambassador, no disaster he causes in Jerusalem or anywhere else on his upcoming tour, no amount of outright and open bribery, there is no line that will cause Republicans to take any oversight action whatsoever beyond expressing "concerns" or "troubles". Not even starting a nuclear war with North Korea. Literally. Nothing.

The only way out of any of this is to defeat Republicans in 2018. That's it.


This is not what I'm thinking about at all. The GOP can go stuff themselves at this point. We know what they're not going to do.

This incident has world changing geo-political potential. We in the rest of the world will have to deal with the outfall from this. This is what I'm having a difficult time speculating about because it is so fricken potentially massive when you start the thought process. There is no precedent to fall back on really and it could go in so many different directions.

I understand completely why people felt the need to leak this. I also feel that Trump has put McMaster in an impossible situation because of what this can mean beyond protecting Trump.

It just that bad.
posted by Jalliah at 11:26 AM on May 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


Spicer is admonishing a reporter (I think April Ryan): "I know you stepped out for awhile. We went over this."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:26 AM on May 16, 2017


April Ryan is a boss. Just asked whether Trump didn't know the origin/sensitivity of the info he blabbed because he wasn't trusted with that information. Burn.
posted by prefpara at 11:26 AM on May 16, 2017 [24 favorites]


(Side note: reading that TASS story in Russian, I am floored by how much they've regressed to Soviet-era language. This shit could have come straight from Minutes of the XXVII Collective Farm Symposium on Foreign Interventionism.)
posted by Behemoth at 11:27 AM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


How do you get full transcripts of a meeting with three participants? Did one of them take detailed notes and type them up?
posted by diogenes at 11:27 AM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Spicer followed up with April Ryan by saying "you are" when she said she wasn't finished with her questions.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:28 AM on May 16, 2017


Spicer followed up with April Ryan by saying "you are" when she says she's not finished with her questions.

And then she asked her question anyway :)
posted by diogenes at 11:28 AM on May 16, 2017 [54 favorites]


How do you get full transcripts of a meeting with three participants? Did one of them take detailed notes and type them up?

Perhaps a certain stealthy press secretary unassuming potted shrub in the corner of the Oval Office can shed some light on this issue.
posted by Behemoth at 11:29 AM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Q: are we calling our allies to reassure them their info is safe?
Spicer: no one is more outraged about this than the president.

Me: [checks level of outrage]
Me: false.
posted by prefpara at 11:31 AM on May 16, 2017 [39 favorites]


It can't be both a totally appropriate, routine nothingburger and a spontaneous unplanned disclosure of classified information to our adversary you rush to notify agency directors and a Senator about.

They don't need to all be true - pick the one you want to believe to excuse Team Red and just run with that one. If none of these excuses work to let you ignore this dereliction of duty, we'll pump out a few more later. As soon as you hear the excuse that works for you, cling to it and start shouting MAGA again. Repeat with each scandal until your soul dies. Now you are a 2017 Republican.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:33 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Spicer unable to explain why WH staff felt the need to notify CIA and NSA.
posted by diogenes at 11:35 AM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


"Three participants" means "three people participating" not "there were only three people in the room." As I understand it, there is always a note-taker present at these meetings who does not produce transcripts but does produce summaries of what was said. This summary was distributed as per normal protocols and then people started to read it and went OMG HOLY SHIT HE SAID WHAT?!
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:36 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Er, sorry, no, on reflection I'm wrong: it's also been reported that full transcripts of the meeting were distributed outside of the immediate participants, so, no, it neither confirms the existence of tapes, nor does it mean that one of the immediate participants leaked the information. Someone with access to the transcripts could have leaked the the story.

Another leak vector are folks they called at the Agencies to warn of impending shitstorm and chaos.
posted by notyou at 11:36 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


"lie back and think of the top rate" is the only coherent policy of congressional republicans now.
posted by murphy slaw at 11:38 AM on May 16, 2017 [21 favorites]


Sean says there is a reason the leaker is being selective about what they leak, to create a "narrative." But this is "clearly a pattern" to "further somebody's agenda."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:40 AM on May 16, 2017


We in the rest of the world will have to deal with the outfall from this. This is what I'm having a difficult time speculating about because it is so fricken potentially massive when you start the thought process. There is no precedent to fall back on really and it could go in so many different directions.

Ironically it took a Republican to end America's superpower and world leader status. There is plenty of precedent though, it's just mostly bad. Pre World War and Interwar Europe dominated by nationalist rivalries. China as the next superpower, or a China/India replay of the Cold War. Or maybe we'll get lucky and the rest of the western world can transition to a state that doesn't rely on American backing to maintain liberal democratic government, because they're going to have to.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:40 AM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


There's been a lot of talk in these threads about the role of economic anxiety (and "economic anxiety") in politics lately, but I found this post from historian/author/blogger Erik Loomis to be a particularly interesting and atypical example of the genre. Loomis has been pretty consistent in accepting the role of racism and xenophobia as motivating factors for Trump voters, but because of his academic focus, also picks up on a lot of weak signals buried within that noise that are tied to real economic issues. In this case, he's talking about rural Oregon, where taxes were kept artificially low by the timber industry, but have gone up as the industry has declined, leading to a backlash.

Ultimately, I think it's the responsibility of people who are fortunate enough to live near high-profit industries and enjoy the tax benefits of the same to recalibrate their attitudes toward taxation when the books don't balance anymore, but I guess it's not surprising that it takes some time for folks to get that taxes actually pay for things when they're so accustomed to never seeing the money in the first place because it came directly from industry. I wouldn't be surprised if there are other pockets of the US where similar anti-tax sentiment has developed in response to local / regional conditions, and where that sentiment has caused people to be more receptive to the GOP's voodoo economics. I still think there are far more pressing matters to do with unemployment and poverty in higher population areas, but I did find this post interesting.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:41 AM on May 16, 2017 [19 favorites]


NYT: At a Besieged White House, Tempers Flare and Confusion Swirls
Mr. Trump’s appetite for chaos, coupled with his disregard for the self-protective conventions of the presidency, have left his staff confused and squabbling. And his own mood, according to two advisers who spoke on the condition of anonymity, has become sour and dark, turning against most of his aides — even his son-in-law, Jared Kushner — and describing them in a fury as “incompetent,” according to one of those advisers.
...
They realized that selecting such a high official [McMaster] would in some ways validate the story, but they wanted to establish a credible witness account exonerating the president from wrongdoing — before the barrage of Twitter posts they knew would be coming from Mr. Trump on Tuesday morning.
...
There is a fear among some of Mr. Trump’s senior advisers about leaving him alone in meetings with foreign leaders out of concern he might speak out of turn. General McMaster, in particular, has tried to insert caveats or gentle corrections into conversations when he believes the president is straying off topic or onto boggy diplomatic ground.

This has, at times, chafed the president, according to two officials with knowledge of the situation. Mr. Trump, who still openly laments having to dismiss his first national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, has groused that General McMaster talks too much in meetings, and the president has referred to him as “a pain,” according to one of the officials.

In private, three administration officials conceded that they could not publicly articulate their most compelling — and honest — defense of the president: that Mr. Trump, a hasty and indifferent reader of printed briefing materials, simply did not possess the interest or knowledge of the granular details of intelligence gathering to leak specific sources and methods of intelligence gathering that would do harm to United States allies.
posted by zachlipton at 11:41 AM on May 16, 2017 [70 favorites]


My theory is that Spicer does off-camera briefings when he doesn't want Trump to watch (and critique) his performance.
posted by janewman at 11:42 AM on May 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


Well at least we have precedent that selectively leaking to create a narrative has no effect on the United States of America, right?
posted by Green With You at 11:44 AM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


"lie back and think of the top rate" is the only coherent policy of congressional republicans now.

Marco Rubio: "Certainly it’s less than ideal, but it is what it is."

Rubio is on the intelligence committee. Such vigorous oversight here.
posted by zachlipton at 11:44 AM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


Oh, hey, Marcus Rubinstein, nice of you to join us for today's constitutional crisis.

also, fuck you
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:46 AM on May 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


In private, three administration officials conceded that they could not publicly articulate their most compelling — and honest — defense of the president: that Mr. Trump, a hasty and indifferent reader of printed briefing materials, simply did not possess the interest or knowledge of the granular details of intelligence gathering to leak specific sources and methods of intelligence gathering that would do harm to United States allies.

Except that the public has known this from day one, so I'm a little confused.
posted by Melismata at 11:47 AM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


Today's Constitutional crisis. Not be confused with yesterday's, or last week's.
posted by Autumnheart at 11:48 AM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


administration officials: trump too stupid, lazy to effectively commit treason
posted by murphy slaw at 11:49 AM on May 16, 2017 [51 favorites]


Maybe just what you're suggesting - that he knows Trump simply would not have the attention span to listen without the visual. That's... I really can't think of another reason?

In light of the man's obvious cognitive deficiencies, this seems the most likely explanation. It's incredible, really.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:52 AM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Breaking: Sean Spicer is appointed to lead Trump 2020 Druid voter initiative. [maybe fake]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:52 AM on May 16, 2017


Marco Rubio: "Certainly it’s less than ideal, but it is what it is."

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
posted by entropicamericana at 11:53 AM on May 16, 2017 [25 favorites]


Trump has company. He watches Spicer on TV. This is so he doesn't ditch his guests to watch.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:53 AM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


As closely as Trump tries to control the people around him, it's freaking amazing how many senior WH staffers are actively trying to undermine him.
posted by diogenes at 11:54 AM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


@sheeraf confirming NYT scoop, Israeli officials say they told White House about laptop threat on planes.
posted by joedan at 11:58 AM on May 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


Charlie Warzel has been following the alt-right media beat diligently, and he brings us the well-researched How The Pro-Trump Media Responds To A Crisis In Just 4 Steps: "Stay quiet, blame and discredit, change the news cycle, and then close the loop. Seventeen hours in the fever swamp."
posted by zachlipton at 11:59 AM on May 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


Apologies if this Richard Cohen piece from WaPo already linked.

Trump doesn’t embody what’s wrong with Washington. Pence does.

When history holds its trial to account for the Donald Trump presidency, Trump himself will be acquitted on grounds of madness. History will look at his behavior, his erratic and childish lying and his flamboyant ignorance of history itself and pronounce the man, like George III, a cuckoo for whom restraint, but not punishment, was necessary. Such will not be the case for Mike Pence, the toady vice president and the personification of much that has gone wrong in Washington.

On any given day, Pence will do his customary spot-on imitation of a bobblehead.
.............
The president cannot be trusted. He cannot be believed. He has denigrated the news media, not for its manifest imperfections but for its routine and obligatory search for the truth. He has turned on the judiciary for its fidelity to the law and, once, for the ethnic heritage of a judge. Trump corrupts just about everything he touches.

From most of the Republican Party comes not a whisper of rebuke. The congressional leadership is inert, cowed, scurrying to the White House for this or that ceremonial picture, like members of the erstwhile Politburo flanking Stalin atop Lenin’s mausoleum. They are appalled, but mute. They want to make the best of a bad situation, I know, and they fear the voters back home, but their complicity ought to be obvious even to them.

posted by Rumple at 12:00 PM on May 16, 2017 [38 favorites]


Sean says there is a reason the leaker is being selective about what they leak, to create a "narrative." But this is "clearly a pattern" to "further somebody's agenda."

"Why don't they leak all the times Trump hasn't revealed classified info?"
posted by drezdn at 12:00 PM on May 16, 2017 [30 favorites]


"Sean says there is a reason the leaker is being selective about what they leak, to create a 'narrative.; But this is 'clearly a pattern' to 'further somebody's agenda.'"

and

"And his own mood, according to two advisers who spoke on the condition of anonymity, has become sour and dark, turning against most of his aides — even his son-in-law, Jared Kushner — and describing them in a fury as 'incompetent,' according to one of those advisers."

Any day now, I expect to hear of a small gathering late at night of Trump and his closest advisers in the Oval Office where Trump has a steward bring in an ice-cream container filled with sand and a scoop, carefully measuring it it, and thus "proving" that someone in the room stole some of his ice cream because, the night before, there wasn't enough for him to have a third helping. "You are now convened as a board of investigation! I want an answer by the morning!"
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:01 PM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Mr. Trump, a hasty and indifferent reader of printed briefing materials, simply did not possess the interest or knowledge of the granular details of intelligence gathering to leak specific sources and methods of intelligence gathering that would do harm to United States allies.


No, but:
-his leaking of the results of intelligence gathering efforts can do harm because other countries know what the US knows;
-other people who have interest and knowledge of how intelligence gathering works might well be able to figure them out based on what Trump says;
-allies will start thinking very carefully before sharing anything with the US because it compromises their ability to work.

In short, the fact that Trump is an ADHD basket case is not a defense of him flapping his gums; intelligence about threats needs to be shared carefully.
posted by nubs at 12:03 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Ivan Fyodorovich, please remember to use the [real] and [fake] takes for the sake of my ever-diminishing sanity and mental faculties.
posted by Tevin at 12:05 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Phillip Bump has exaustively mapped out the original Post reporting and statements in response by McMaster, Tillerson, Powell, McMaster again, Trump, and McMaster again, annotating them to illustrate precisely what is contradictory and what their statements aren't saying. It's super-detailed and great reporting.
posted by zachlipton at 12:10 PM on May 16, 2017 [37 favorites]


Take a moment to watch this clip of McConnell being asked "Do you have concerns with the President's ability to properly handle classified information?"

The answer is "no." But you can see another little puff of his soul escaping from his body in the long pause between question and answer.

And, guess who just turned up to meet with McConnell? Sheldon Adelson.
posted by zachlipton at 12:15 PM on May 16, 2017 [23 favorites]


Related to the number of people in the room, based on McMaster and others comments, there were four principals: POTUS, Tillerson, Lavrov, and Kislyak. Additionally, McMaster and Powell. Plus the official US photographer and the official Russian photographer (and TASS stringer). Presumably there were a couple of translators, one from the US and one from Russia (Lavrov and Kislyak speak English, so perhaps they don't need translators). Homeland Security Advisor Bossert reached out to the NSA and CIA to brief them afterwards and someone briefed a Senator (Burr, presumably), but I haven't read if Bossert was actually in the room. There could well have been other senior and junior staff in the room as well (one would imagine Priebus would be there, right?).

Someone took notes as the White House provided a sanitized read out, notably leaving Kislyak's presence out. Other sources reported a transcript being distributed, and then quickly cleansed of the classified information, before it was more widely disseminated. So it seems that someone either took very good notes or the entire meeting was taped.

I think it was the transcript that was leaked. It could have been leaked directly by someone from the White House (who did not have to be in the meeting), or by someone from the NSA or CIA, who received it before it was cleansed.
posted by jindc at 12:17 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


adelson: "i know we're outside of the 90 day hassle-free warranty period but i want my money back, mitch"

[fake]
posted by murphy slaw at 12:18 PM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Israeli Official: Trump Sharing Intelligence With Russia Is "Worst Fears Confirmed": "We have an arrangement with America which is unique to the world of intelligence sharing. We do not have this relationship with any other country," said the officer, who spoke to BuzzFeed News on condition of anonymity as he was not granted permission to speak to the press.

"There is a special understanding of security cooperation between our countries," they said. "To know that this intelligence is shared with others, without our prior knowledge? That is, for us, our worst fears confirmed."

posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:19 PM on May 16, 2017 [64 favorites]


I feel slightly like I'm taking crazy pills this morning. Trump met with the dude widely rumored to be his Russian handler, in the oval office, and allowed the Russian press to be present while banishing the American media, and then leaked highly classified information. And the best defense is that he did it because he's too stupid and impulsive to know better.

Trump is stupid and impulsive. But how is this not deliberate? This couldn't look more premeditated than if he was found with a crayon drawing of the above with "this will make Vladimir so happy!" scrawled across it.

Cf my previous comment: Trump acts exactly like a Russian asset, as we were all worried about explicitly since before the election ("No puppet! No puppet! No you're the puppet!"), but lets keep puzzling over the myriad reasons for why he's doing these Russian asset-y things. What could it be, what could it be...?
posted by supercrayon at 12:19 PM on May 16, 2017 [72 favorites]


zachlipton, that's a wonderful breakdown by Phillip Bump
posted by INFJ at 12:20 PM on May 16, 2017


"We have an arrangement with America which is unique to the world of intelligence sharing. We do not have this relationship with any other country,"

Well. Uh. On the bright side, maybe this will help break the unholy pact between evangelical Christians and conservative Jews which has helped create the massive and expensive clusterfuck that is our Israeli policy?

I'm grasping at straws, here, people, and trying not to read this as "American support is no longer expected, and thus we are declaring preemptive war on Egypt."
posted by Mayor West at 12:22 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Take a moment to watch this clip of McConnell being asked "Do you have concerns with the President's ability to properly handle classified information?"


Who is the guy from 1930sGangster.com behind McConnell? Well both of the guys behind him fit the bill.
posted by Rumple at 12:22 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Sean Spicer is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

See, this is the kind of robust journalism the country needs. I hope the press corps learns from this brave citizen. The President salutes you, sir.
posted by Coventry at 12:28 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


How I wish one of these reporters would point out that there was a journalist in the room at the time of the conversation, and ask whether this could be a pattern of President Trump leaking classified information to the press
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:29 PM on May 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


Well. Uh. On the bright side, maybe this will help break the unholy pact between evangelical Christians and conservative Jews which has helped create the massive and expensive clusterfuck that is our Israeli policy?

Ha ha ha ha. Evangelical Christians were only ever in it for the Islamophobia. They'll find a way to get over it, just like they find ways to get over the affairs, child abuse, drugs, rape and hate that this president, like way too many Republicans, has committed.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 12:29 PM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Trump met with the dude widely rumored to be his Russian handler, in the oval office, and allowed the Russian press to be present while banishing the American media, and then leaked highly classified information.

They also tried to pretend the Russian ambassador hadn't been there by leaving him out of photos and their write-up, after Russian media had already published pictures of him there. That's my favorite part.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:32 PM on May 16, 2017 [54 favorites]


Evangelical Christians were only ever in it for the Islamophobia.

There's a lot of weird end-of-days stuff that includes things happening in Israel, too, so the Left Behinders think they need to prop it up.
posted by Etrigan at 12:33 PM on May 16, 2017 [18 favorites]


Do we actually know that the TASS photographer was in the room at the time? Perhaps they did the photo-op and then showed the photographer out.

Not that it matters, since Lavrov and Kislyak were absolutely in the room, and that's kind of the more concerning part.
posted by zachlipton at 12:35 PM on May 16, 2017


I think that is overly charitable; TASS is a news agency which the White House photographer is not. It's like if there was someone from PBS NewsHour in the room, only, they really like Putin.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:35 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Israel Was Source of Secret Intelligence That Trump Gave to Russians, Officials Say [nyt]

Israel had a habit during the Bush administration of exploiting US intelligence so hard that the sources dried up, so I guess turnabout's fair play?
posted by Coventry at 12:35 PM on May 16, 2017


New from Copper Canyon Press this summer-

Certainly It's Less: the Collected Poetry of Marco Rubio

To the chorus of the great poets of fate and resignation—Dickinson, Keats, Nemerov, Christina Rossetti, Basho—we are proud to add a brilliant new voice: Marco Rubio. In Certainly It's Less, his first collection, he engages with the failure of ideals, the mutability of form, and the reality of death. Rubio's disciplined technique show the influence of Kay Ryan, while his gnomic imagery recalls the nature poetry of Robinson Jeffers, but his casual idiom and political audacity mark this 45-year-old Floridian as a true citizen of 21st century America.

Includes a foreword by Anne Carson. $18.00 paperback.
posted by Iridic at 12:36 PM on May 16, 2017 [21 favorites]


Do we actually know that the TASS photographer was in the room at the time? Perhaps they did the photo-op and then showed the photographer out.

Would it have been incredibly stupid of Trump to have let the photog stay in the room? There's your answer.
posted by Etrigan at 12:41 PM on May 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


So I told Trump to massively piss off the FBI and Mossad on back to back days and he actually did it the absolute madman hahahaha

"Hold my launchcodes."
posted by Coventry at 12:43 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


To the chorus of the great poets of fate and resignation—Dickinson, Keats, Nemerov, Christina Rossetti, Basho—we are proud to add a brilliant new voice: Marco Rubio. In Certainly It's Less, his first collection, he engages with the failure of ideals, the mutability of form, and the reality of death. Rubio's disciplined technique show the influence of Kay Ryan, while his gnomic imagery recalls the nature poetry of Robinson Jeffers, but his casual idiom and political audacity mark this 45-year-old Floridian as a true citizen of 21st century America.

Early reviews indicate the lack of spine means the pages fall out readily.
posted by nubs at 12:43 PM on May 16, 2017 [34 favorites]



I was once on Route 9 headed from Cambridge to Worcester, MA, when a septic truck blew its valve on the highway a few cars ahead of mine. A giant torrent of shitty bilge water sprayed all over the highway dousing the cars in front of mine in brown muck. I managed to avoid the worst of it but the smell was unbelievable. Shit spraying everywhere.


This is the second time a mefite has recounted seeing a septic truck explode. The first was poffin boffin in Ibiza or something. So these trucks must explode a lot more than I thought. I need to invest in a hermetically sealed chamber to live in. Or a space station.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:46 PM on May 16, 2017 [20 favorites]


I feel slightly like I'm taking crazy pills this morning. Trump met with the dude widely rumored to be his Russian handler, in the oval office, and allowed the Russian press to be present while banishing the American media, and then leaked highly classified information.

And it gets more crazy making if you keep rewinding. The meeting was the day after Trump fired Comey, which was shortly after Yates (who he fired) testified about Trump's lack of action on the compromised Flynn (who was compromised because of his interactions with the aforementioned Russian handler.)

And that summary leaves out like three crazy making details.
posted by diogenes at 12:46 PM on May 16, 2017 [23 favorites]


Trump called McMaster 'a pain' who talks too much: report

Not included: grandstander, showboat, bad hombre
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:48 PM on May 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


I need to invest in a hermetically sealed chamber to live in. Or a space station.

dude you do not want to be on a space station when the septic system explodes
posted by murphy slaw at 12:49 PM on May 16, 2017 [27 favorites]


New York State Assembly expected to pass bill to bring single payer health care to Empire State
Just as it did in 2015 and 2016, the measure is expected to easily pass the assembly by an overwhelming majority. And just as it did for the past two years, the bill has a difficult road ahead of it in the New York State Senate.

But this year, the bill has already won a crucial victory: For the first time ever, the move to bring single-payer to the state of New York has been cosponsored by every single member of the Independent Democratic Caucus, a controversial gang of Democrats in the New York State Senate that does not caucus with their party. [...] With the crucial support of the IDC already guaranteed, the single-payer bill is expected to need only one more vote to pass in the Senate.
New Yorkers --- call your state senators and ask them to support the bill (A4738)!!!
posted by melissasaurus at 12:50 PM on May 16, 2017 [67 favorites]


New from Copper Canyon Press this summer-

*blinks wildly, looking deeply concerned*

So, hey. I live a 5 minute walk from this publisher, and I'm pretty sure I just heard them making noises that sounded like them stacking pencil-shaped bullets into clips and ammo belts and muttering "Oh it's on. Time to slam..."

I haven't heard any noises from that part of the campus since Fiddletunes last year and I certainly have never heard the distinctive sounds of machine gun bolts being racked and readied. There are also now about a million crows and ravens circling overhead, so I'm assuming they've called up their allies and neighbors at Corvidae Press.

If I were you I'd start running, but it's probably already too late.
posted by loquacious at 12:51 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Rubio is one of my Senators. I see his Facebook updates thanks to that Town Hall feature. The comments, man. They're enough to make me want to move off this planet for good. There's apparently no level of spinelessness that isn't praised by hordes of American Flag avatars. All they care about is that he's a "God-fearing" businessman (????).
posted by Kitty Stardust at 12:51 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Mod note: One deleted; if folks want to have the pro-life dems/abortion rights discussion, better to pull that out into its own thread. Also, especially dudes who intend to be supporting abortion rights: making ironic comments supporting some extreme weird position you don't actually hold is super counterproductive, it pisses off people you think you're allying with. So please don't.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:52 PM on May 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


I need to invest in a hermetically sealed chamber to live in. Or a space station.

dude you do not want to be on a space station when the septic system explodes


Dying quick is underrated, in comparison to some things.
posted by Etrigan at 12:52 PM on May 16, 2017


Surely Congressional oversight will save us, right?
"My major concern right now is that I don’t know what the president said. I know what I’ve read," said Warner's counterpart, Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr (R-N.C.), who said he tried to reach the White House all Tuesday morning for more information on the matter. "Any time I read about an intelligence [matter] in the paper, it’s a great concern because that’s what the oversight committee is supposed to be concerned with."
...
"Maybe they're busy," Burr quipped about why he hadn't heard from the White House.
The weird thing is that BuzzFeed reportered that "at least one member of the Senate Intelligence Committee was also briefed on Trump’s disclosures." Yesterday, I assumed that if it was anyone, it would have been Burr, the committee's chair. Assuming the report is accurate, who did they brief if not Burr, and why?
posted by zachlipton at 12:53 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


This Spicer dude.... he just said that you have to worry about "the intent of a leak like this"...

I am without words at the irony of that usage.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:55 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Assuming the report is accurate, who did they brief if not Burr, and why?

Obvious answer is Cornyn, immediately before he decided not to become FBI chief.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:55 PM on May 16, 2017 [23 favorites]


People have been saying for months that establishment Republicans had decided that they’d let Trump do almost literally anything as long as he agreed to sign a big tax cut and help repeal Obamacare. And now McConnell, faced with the ultimate consequence of this moral desertion, is happy to say it out loud.

On the briefly #nevertrump National Review, Matthew Continetti says it even more directly, albeit with an important caveat:
Weird as it sounds, the best-case scenario may be the one in which we live, where a president defined by crisis, consumed by scandal, presides over a humming economy and a relatively stable international scene, where angry tweets and sarcastic letters of termination and eyebrow-raising asides are the price of a center-right presidency that enforces immigration law, puts constitutionalists on the bench, reduces taxes and regulations, spends a little more on the military, incentivizes capital investment, and tightens labor markets to induce wage hikes. The best-case scenario is that the crisis is limited to Trump, who is defined by it, needs it.

And the worst-case scenario? I leave that to your imagination.
posted by msalt at 12:56 PM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


wait so burr wasn't in the room where it happened?
posted by entropicamericana at 12:57 PM on May 16, 2017 [27 favorites]


relatively stable international scene

uuuuhhhh....
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:59 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


shorter Continetti: you go to class war with the insane clown you have - not the insane clown you might want or wish to have at a later time
posted by murphy slaw at 1:01 PM on May 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


Take a moment to watch this clip of McConnell being asked "Do you have concerns with the President's ability to properly handle classified information?" The answer is "no."

The answer is factually correct.
McConnell knows that Trump is incapable of properly handling classified information, but he (McConnell) is evidently not concerned about this.
posted by sour cream at 1:03 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Oh, this is rich.

Huckabee blasts 'SNL's' 'sexist,' 'misogynist' portrayal of daughter
: Huckabee called the skit this weekend "a little bit silly, sexist, misogynist," on Fox Business Network.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:05 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


This Spicer dude.... he just said that you have to worry about "the intent of a leak like this"...

This whole week (It's Tuesday, Lemon) I keep thinking of the rally where 45 asked "why doesn't some woman maybe come up" and make allegations of harassment against Obama.

Like, yeah, maybe there's a time and place to be concerned about the intent behind the leaks. But at a certain point, can't you have a little introspection and wonder why this issue to seems to be unique to the current administration?


"No." Apparently the answer is "No, they can't have a little introspection."
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:06 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


that enforces immigration law herds undocumented immigrants into concentration camps, puts constitutionalists on the bench suppresses civil rights and reproductive freedom, reduces taxes and regulations starves the poor and elderly, spends a little more on the military, creates more justification to use military force, incentivizes capital investment allows the rich to loot anything that isn't nailed down, and tightens labor markets to induce wage hikes stomps out unions and labor protections.

FTFY
posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:07 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Weird as it sounds, the best-case scenario may be the one in which we live, where a president defined by crisis, consumed by scandal, presides over a humming economy

Call me crazy but if Donald Trump were to somehow resign the presidency, I think the Republic would survive.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:13 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Sen. Hirono just announced she has kidney cancer. :(
posted by melissasaurus at 1:14 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


SNL has always been, and continues to be, misogynist. That is no surprise. But it is hypocrisy for goddamn Huckabee to call stuff like that out.
posted by agregoli at 1:15 PM on May 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


Evangelical Christians were only ever in it for the Islamophobia.

There's a lot of weird end-of-days stuff that includes things happening in Israel, too, so the Left Behinders think they need to prop it up.


Yeah, Evangelical support for Israel is mostly a side-effect position they backed themselves into when they were just trying to double-down on some silly pronouncements about the End Times.
posted by straight at 1:16 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Richard Burr is my Senator. I met him once; he came to my workplace and I sat across from him at a conference table while my employer's executive team briefed him on our business and industry. He listened and asked intelligent and insightful questions. He was very much a politician, with an annoying sense of charisma about him, but is obviously an educated and informed man.

Obviously he is also super gross in nearly every way that matters to me. His support for Trump during the campaign was baffling and reprehensible. But I've been surprised at how measured his comments have been over the past week. I think he doesn't know what the fuck to do, and I take great joy in imagining that very capable guy I met sitting in his office in Washington right now trying to figure out how to respond. He has got to be goddamned furious. And yet - he clearly doesn't know how to handle this. Which makes me wonder how much of the Republican response (or lack thereof) is willfully evil and self-serving, and how much of it is just confusion and fear. Their loyalty to party has become so deeply, blindly ingrained; what do you do when the person at the top of that party takes actions nearly every single day to weaken not only the party, but the country? It's like they keep expecting him to stop and then everything will settle down and get better. I think they are wrong, though. I think if he does last the rest of the term, the GOP is going to be fucked for a very long time.
posted by something something at 1:17 PM on May 16, 2017 [20 favorites]


OH DEAR GOD NOOOOOOO: "#BREAKING Trump to give speech on Islam in Saudi Arabia: White House"

Nicky Santoro: There are a lot of holes in the desert. . . .
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:18 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Israeli Official: Trump Sharing Intelligence With Russia Is "Worst Fears Confirmed"

This is so rich, in the light of the disregard Bibi Netanyahu showed for Obama, along with his support for Trump's election.
posted by SteveInMaine at 1:20 PM on May 16, 2017 [56 favorites]


This has, at times, chafed the president, according to two officials with knowledge of the situation. Mr. Trump, who still openly laments having to dismiss his first national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, has groused that General McMaster talks too much in meetings, and the president has referred to him as “a pain,” according to one of the officials.

I have been this person in meetings where I am clearly annoying everyone concerned because I want to make sure that there is no ambiguity about an important thing.

I don't feel sorry for anyone in this administration, but I surely do know how terrible it feels to be trying to steer a boat with a coffee stirrer when the idiot running the meeting is driving us into the bank with the rudder.

I can't imagine sticking with it when the important thing I'm trying to tactfully re-state is an issue of geopolitical importance instead of customer satisfaction survey methodology. It's nerve-wracking enough when at the end of the day I can shrug and say oh well no one will die if they get it wrong.

YET AGAIN MORE REASON WHY GOVERNMENT IS NOT A BUSINESS.
posted by winna at 1:21 PM on May 16, 2017 [35 favorites]


I started reading Rudyard Kipling’s “If” right now while thinking about politics and I’m about to start crying in the Starbucks.

This stupid world.
posted by Going To Maine at 1:22 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


How is Trump going to make it through 11 grueling days of a foreign trip? There is a real possibility of a major fatigue induced disaster.
posted by Justinian at 1:23 PM on May 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


Mr. Trump, who still openly laments having to dismiss his first national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn

Just stop and think about this line for a minute...
posted by diogenes at 1:24 PM on May 16, 2017 [39 favorites]


>> Israeli Official: Trump Sharing Intelligence With Russia Is "Worst Fears Confirmed"

> This is so rich, in the light of the disregard Bibi Netanyahu showed for Obama, along with his support for Trump's election.


So true. And yet, we're all collectively less secure as a result.

I just can't imagine that this international trip goes ahead, surrounded by this storm of chaos and upheaval. Relationships strained with our closest ally in the Middle East, a speech on Islam in Saudi Arabia with Trump's trademark eloquence and depth - surely they must realize that nothing good will come of it, and postpone for some bogus reason?

And then I think of Trump's Razor.

Of course it's going to happen. Of course he's going to give a speech on Islam in Saudi Arabia with his trademark word salad, and - I'm calling it right now - he'll mention his Electoral College victory, and how even the Muslims in those states voted for him bigly.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:27 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


At some point, in coming years, a Republican politician will be interviewed and begin his response "The Federal Government needs to keep their nose out of this because they can't do anything right!" before the epiphany, "Just look at the Donald Trump administration!"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:28 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Rep. Mark Walker is attacking one of the US Capitol's duck ramps as "government waste."

The ramps [adorable video] are great, even if not all the ducklings have gotten the hang of them yet.

Why can't we have nice things?
posted by zachlipton at 1:28 PM on May 16, 2017 [39 favorites]


Republicans: Duck the issue
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:30 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Also, I guess Michael Moore is going to release a surprise documentary called Fahrenheit 11/9 so someone please take all of his camera crews away.
posted by Going To Maine at 1:31 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


'We were told...by a half-dozen advisers [that] Trump is dreading the overseas trip.'

I'm not really comfortable having anything at all in common with him.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:32 PM on May 16, 2017 [20 favorites]


Also, I guess Michael Moore is going to release a surprise documentary called Fahrenheit 11/9 so someone please take all of his camera crews away.

Oh, good. What I need more of in my life is middle aged white men telling me how the world ought to be.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:33 PM on May 16, 2017 [38 favorites]


Rep. Mark Walker is attacking one of the US Capitol's duck ramps as "government waste."

This rolling garbage fire constitutional crisis is being replenished by fresh rivulets of swamp-grease on an hourly basis, and rep is mad about duck ramps?

Move over, "rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic", there's a new metaphor in town.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:33 PM on May 16, 2017 [36 favorites]


Ten dollars of plywood and paint is what this guy is upset about
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:36 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Is there any possibility Trump just finds a golf course in every country he visits?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:37 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


got mine, duck you
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:37 PM on May 16, 2017 [13 favorites]




If the ducks really want to live there they can pull themselves up by their own bootstraps instead of waiting for government largesse

I assume the ducks in question are brown
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 1:42 PM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


NYC sent this letter home with students today about the Queens incident last week where an immigration officer tried to take a fourth grader.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:45 PM on May 16, 2017 [29 favorites]


Isn't there some sort of technicality involving Trump releasing top secret info? If the info is top secret and revealing it is legal for him to do, but doing so also harms us, our allies, or our missions, isn't there a legal framework in place to correct this? It would imply that a president could just say whatever he wants and screw over any country without any consequence.
posted by gucci mane at 1:47 PM on May 16, 2017


Earlier this afternoon: Maggie Haberman at the NYT -- 'We were told...by a half-dozen advisers [that] Trump is dreading the overseas trip.'

I can't wait. If I've gotta suffer, then you've gotta suffer, too, you bastards. This will be like National Lampoon's Vacation as written by Karl Kraus.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:47 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Ben Terris: I asked Sen. John McCain if there should be consequences for classified info being leaked to the Russians and he gave me an earful

John McCain sounds frustrated by his uselessness, which I'm sure he will channel into continuing to be useless.
posted by zachlipton at 1:49 PM on May 16, 2017 [32 favorites]


“If information was shared with the Russian ambassador, it seems to me it’d be okay to share with the U.S. Senate,” Sen. Thom Tillis (R-NC) griped to reporters Tuesday.

Yeah well Thom, maybe you and your goddamn pals in the congress should be doing something about our situation.
posted by H. Roark at 1:50 PM on May 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


The sick thing is, I bet he wouldn't even have noticed a traditional, plank-on-a-pole "please don't feed the ducks" sign, but because they painted the same exact sign on a small piece of infrastructure that helps a soft cuddlesome thing, he gets a lil ragechubby about it and wants to burn it down.
posted by Don Pepino at 1:51 PM on May 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


Thomas E. Ricks reprints a letter he just received from retired colonel Paul Yingling in Foreign Policy: “McMaster’s former deputy in Iraq: An officer must not just stand by while a lie is being promulgated”
It is not enough that everything an officer says is true and complete. This standard is too low; it allows an officer to remain silent while others lie.

An officer may not tolerate a lie. This standard requires not only that everything an officer says is true and complete, but also that an officer must correct anyone who lies in his or her presence. An officer can never be content with a half truth when the whole can be won.
This Starbucks is so goddam dusty.
posted by Going To Maine at 1:51 PM on May 16, 2017 [33 favorites]


Isn't there some sort of technicality involving Trump releasing top secret info? If the info is top secret and revealing it is legal for him to do, but doing so also harms us, our allies, or our missions, isn't there a legal framework in place to correct this?

It's called "impeachment"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:52 PM on May 16, 2017 [18 favorites]


Jake Tapper: McMaster's explanation makes no sense. The city that Trump revealed to the Russians, it's the same city that CNN was specifically asked by Trump Administration officials to keep secret in the name of national security to protect sources and methods. We're still being told as of today not to report it.
posted by zachlipton at 1:54 PM on May 16, 2017 [44 favorites]


The sick thing is, I bet he wouldn't even have noticed a traditional, plank-on-a-pole "please don't feed the ducks" sign, but because they painted the same exact sign on a small piece of infrastructure that helps a soft cuddlesome thing, he gets a lil ragechubby about it and wants to burn it down.

Because the ducks have done nothing to earn this amenity, and thus it is immoral for it to be given to them. It doesn't matter how much or how little it cost, it's the principle that counts: meanness of spirit as morality.
posted by acb at 1:55 PM on May 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


am i really the first one to make a "lucky duckies" joke
posted by murphy slaw at 1:58 PM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


Whatever you do, don't feed the ducks avocado toast.
posted by notyou at 2:00 PM on May 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


Isn’t there some sort of technicality involving Trump releasing top secret info? If the info is top secret and revealing it is legal for him to do, but doing so also harms us, our allies, or our missions, isn't there a legal framework in place to correct this?

It’s called “impeachment”

Classification emanates from the president; it’s a very spiritual concept. The lawfare post linked above goes into it, as did their most recent podcast. If you have the power, you can use it as you want. If Congress wants to impeach you, they can.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:00 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Huh... yes, adds up. Everybody and every thing is an enemy out to soak them for all they've got, right down to the fuzzy spring ducklings.
posted by Don Pepino at 2:00 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]




More duckling news, because we need some good news: Ducklings and mother rescued from Library of Congress roof [photos].
posted by zachlipton at 2:04 PM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


WaPo: Donald Trump is his administration’s own worst enemy
Eight months after he was sworn in, George W. Bush faced the most significant crisis posed to any president since World War II. After the tumultuous 2000 election, Bush’s first few months in office were quieter — not without drama and tension. A spy plane was forced to land in China after a collision, prompting an international incident. A Republican senator flipped to independent, throwing control of the Senate to the Democrats. Tensions erupted at a Group of Eight summit. But nothing that happened during those first few months was even close to the scale of what unfolded the morning of Sept. 11, 2001. From that moment on, his presidency changed — as did the focus of the presidency itself, through today.

President Trump’s first four months in office (a benchmark he hits Saturday) have been saturated with public relations crises that have tested his administration’s ability to respond — and tested its cohesion. Unlike the early crises of the Bush administration, though, what Trump has faced has almost uniformly been a function of missteps by the administration itself. The often-clumsy responses, not infrequently made worse by the president himself, raise the question of how the White House would handle a 9/11-level crisis — or even something significantly less dramatic.
posted by ZeusHumms at 2:08 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


2017 GOP is a grime monster from Captain Planet who wants to pump the ol' pond full of glowing sludge just because fuck animals
posted by theodolite at 2:11 PM on May 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


Isn't this trip the first time in decades that Trump will have to sleep in a bed not his own?

HE'S A HOME POOPER.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 2:14 PM on May 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


Netanyahu wasn't actually one of them

I seem to recall he tweeted about how he built a wall on his southern border and it worked out great. Walls are a great idea!

I like Israel fine and I married into a Jewish family. But I do not like that Netanyahu fellow much.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:19 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


It would imply that a president could just say whatever he wants and screw over any country

A US president can do that, though. Theoretically they wouldn't, if only to protect US interests that might be threatened by screwing over other countries. The presidency is constructed with the assumption that any citizen who assumes the office does so with the best interests of the country in mind. We have totally screwed over other countries, but usually with the intent of furthering American interests at their expense*, as opposed to, say, furthering an elected official's interests at the expense of our own government.

This is why government is != business: The highest office in the nation is not a CEO chair. It's not meant to be an opportunity to maximize short-term returns at the expense of long-term org health, let the CEO make a bunch of money, and cash out a golden parachute before the damage to the organization can become clear. The highest office in the nation is not a perch of command but a burden of responsibility. The presidency is an act of service. There's a reason we say elected officials "serve" their terms in office instead of using whatever verbs describe what CEOs do. It's telling that "government should be run like a business" types tend to use "Commander-in-Chief" more than "public servant/service" to describe the office. They're willfully missing or eliding the difference between corporate governance and public service.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 2:21 PM on May 16, 2017 [58 favorites]


I watch all this unfold and I think about the prediction that there will be over 100 million cases of Alzheimers by 2050.

We are experiencing a dramatic increase in biological impairment in people who wield authority, responsibility and accumulated wealth and who are battered by an incredible amount of bullshit meant to make them scared, hateful and vulnerable to being conned. We have developed no real mechanisms for dealing with the societal implications of cognitively impaired citizens.

Trump is both an example and outcome of this and the wave is going to triple from what it is now.

That's some terrifying demographic destiny.
posted by srboisvert at 2:23 PM on May 16, 2017 [51 favorites]


Maybe Trump has had one of his own beds put on Air Force One.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:23 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]




Oh boy.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:26 PM on May 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


Mr. Comey created similar memos — including some that are classified — about every phone call and meeting he had with the president, the two people said.
surely this?!?!?!
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 2:28 PM on May 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


Mr. Comey created similar memos — including some that are classified — about every phone call and meeting he had with the president, the two people said. It is unclear whether Mr. Comey told the Justice Department about the conversation or his memos.
Suspect we're going to get a lot more stories like this.

And, uhhh:
Mr. Comey had been in the Oval Office that day with other senior national security officials for a terrorism threat briefing. When the meeting ended, Mr. Trump told those present — including Mr. Pence and Attorney General Jeff Sessions — to leave the room except for Mr. Comey.

Alone in the Oval Office, Mr. Trump began the discussion by condemning leaks to the news media, saying that Mr. Comey should consider putting reporters in prison for publishing classified information, according to one of Mr. Comey’s associates.
posted by zachlipton at 2:29 PM on May 16, 2017 [64 favorites]


Mr. Comey did not say anything to Mr. Trump about curtailing the investigation, only replying: “I agree he is a good guy.”
Also, 45-fucking-D chess here.
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 2:30 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


So if the past is indicative today we'll get a bunch of spokespeople denying this and saying of course the President did no such thing, and then tomorrow someone will ask Trump if he ordered the Code Red and he'll be all "YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT I DID".
posted by Justinian at 2:30 PM on May 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


I'm jumping on board the surely this train.
posted by parallellines at 2:30 PM on May 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


Oh good god. Please don't let this man go overseas.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:30 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Mumimor, what type of cake would you like? --
If you are a civil servant and you can see things are going bad, you will make sure to leave a detailed paper trail everywhere you go. You'll send minutes from every meeting to someone relevant but not at the meeting, you'll mail stuff you normally would treat as banal to your boss or immediate subordinate, you'll get documents out where they can't be legally deleted.
Like we've already seen in this case: you'll be telling friends and colleagues with the same security clearance every time something weird happens, so you have witnesses.
posted by mumimor at 7:19 AM on May 14
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:31 PM on May 16, 2017 [65 favorites]


What is driving Netanyahu's total alignment with Trump?

(Feb 22, 2017)

After eight tense years during which the prime minister had many bitter, public disagreements with the US administration, Netanyahu is clearly determined to ensure the relationship with Donald Trump starts on the right footing.

After two traumatizing terms with Barack Obama, Netanyahu is evidently going to great lengths — apparently willing to risk alienating part of the organized US-Jewish community and the millions of Americans who are vowing to “resist” the Trump presidency — in order to make sure that, this time, it will be different.


It will! It will be different. Yes.
posted by petebest at 2:32 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Isn't this trip the first time in decades that Trump will have to sleep in a bed not his own?

HE'S A HOME POOPER.


So, what exactly would be the health consequences of not pooping for eight days? Asking for an enemy.
posted by straight at 2:32 PM on May 16, 2017 [24 favorites]


Good thing the white house is bugged and we will get 'tapes' to corroborate it!
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:32 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


And that's why you don't try to ratfuck the head of the FBI, you goddamned idiots.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:32 PM on May 16, 2017 [93 favorites]




I see your "tapes" and raise my memoes.
posted by notyou at 2:34 PM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Were you listening to the Dude's story, Donny?
posted by petebest at 2:35 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


At this point I'm wondering if the Disaster Counter should be denominated in hours rather than days.
posted by Justinian at 2:35 PM on May 16, 2017 [54 favorites]


I know we are not giant fans of Jim Comey, but I have to say, my first reaction to him in this instance is "Oh thank everloving fuck finally one character in this farce has an actual BRAIN in his HEAD."
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:35 PM on May 16, 2017 [84 favorites]


Excellent trolling by Comey. No one is going to be able to control the toddler response now - and the tapes and other corroborating evidence have to come out.
posted by Dashy at 2:35 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


How many people do we think we could get in the streets at, say, noon on Friday (while his Trumpness is out of the country), on short notice?
posted by jferg at 2:35 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


I was beaten to the "surely this" joke, but in all seriousness... Why *wouldn't* the GOP shiv Trump at this point? How much worse are things for them with Pence in charge? Can the embarrassment of impeaching your own candidate be any worse than the daily series of clusterfucks that this administration keeps creating?

It's funny, just before refreshing this tab I was just reading this NYT piece and was stunned to see my Republican Senator seeming like he was starting to get shiv-curious:
“There need to be serious changes at the White House, immediately,” said Senator Patrick J. Toomey, a Pennsylvania Republican who wants Mr. Trump to appoint a Democrat to head the F.B.I.
I'm less interested in the bad-faith suggestion of nominating a Democrat than I am the talk about "serious changes at the White House." What is "the White House" at this point other than Trump and a handful of hacks who run around trying to do damage control? It's interesting to see the timing of Toomey's open questioning of the administration -- he wants to keep his Senate seat, and maybe this is an actual sign of old guard Republicans positioning themselves so they can cut him loose.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:35 PM on May 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


Joking aside this is, no ifs ands and buts about it, obstruction of justice. Asking Comey to pledge his loyalty implies obstruction of justice but could be denied. This would be flat-out undeniable obstruction.
posted by Justinian at 2:38 PM on May 16, 2017 [43 favorites]


but loretta lynch
posted by entropicamericana at 2:38 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


It's literally something worse every hour
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:39 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Toomey making these noises is especially significant because he was re-elected in 2016, so if this is electoral calculus he's betting that sticking by Trump now would hurt him in 2022.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:40 PM on May 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


This is extra-double-super-obstruction of justice -- not only did Trump try to kill the investigation, but he did it after he already knew or had strong reason to believe Flynn had lied to the FBI. He was actively trying to cover up a felony.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:40 PM on May 16, 2017 [76 favorites]


I hope the Comey memo does something, but it's just a bit more evidence of something everyone assumed was true and Republicans have already come to terms with. I mean, they're literally at "when the President does it it's not illegal".
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:41 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


It's interesting that the White House, which rants about not trusting anonymous sources, wouldn't provide a quote for attribution refuting the story. Nobody would put their name on it.
posted by zachlipton at 2:41 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


GUYS IT'S STILL TUESDAY
posted by murphy slaw at 2:42 PM on May 16, 2017 [45 favorites]


> if this is electoral calculus

It is never anything else with him. His internal code is:

10 CUT TAXES
20 WIN ELECTIONS
30 GOTO 10

(Yes, Pat Toomey's brain was in fact written in a special variant of GW-BASIC developed by the Club For Growth in the 1980s to implement supply side economics.)
posted by tonycpsu at 2:43 PM on May 16, 2017 [21 favorites]


If they can fly the President's bulletproof Cadillac and a convoy of Secret Service cars on a C130 alongside Airforce 1, surely they can fit his personal bed there, and have someone set it up in his assigned suite before he retires each night. Expensive and extravagant, yes, but much less than the whole Trump Tower situation.
posted by acb at 2:43 PM on May 16, 2017


John McCain is really going to tell us how super duper extra secret probation troubling this is now, before he continues to not do anything.
posted by zachlipton at 2:44 PM on May 16, 2017 [43 favorites]


*nostalgicizing* Remember that one weekend right after Trump rolled out the Muslim ban and we were all like, "Man, this guy is a total bastard who has taken leave of his senses and is destroying America?" Gosh, life was so sensible and orderly back then. Good times [sigh].
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:45 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Oh, I'm aware. I had the misfortune of meeting him during his first run at the Senate back in 2004, when he tried and failed to primary Arlen Specter.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:45 PM on May 16, 2017


Comey memo says Trump asked him to drop the Flynn investigation.

White House denies Trump said that.

Going by the pattern of the last few weeks, shall we open the betting pool for what time between now and tomorrow morning will Trump tweet that yes indeed he said it, and defend his saying it?
posted by dnash at 2:46 PM on May 16, 2017 [15 favorites]




Going by the pattern of the last few weeks, shall we open the betting pool for what time between now and tomorrow morning will Trump tweet that yes indeed he said it, and defend his saying it?

Well, first he has to send two or three flunkies (Betsy DeVos? Pruitt? Mattis? who's left?) out to lie through their teeth so he can burn them.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:48 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


"For [Trump], the day [Comey] [leaked a memo] was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday."
posted by murphy slaw at 2:49 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Yeah. I'm gonna put it at "45 minutes after one of his flunkies denies it at the next presser."
posted by Archelaus at 2:49 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Irrespective of how you feel about the Israeli government*, the dump that Trump just took on the tenuous relationship between them and the USA government is extremely bad for us. Not just for the loss in intelligence, but because everyone in the world now realizes that if we're willing to disclose Israeli intelligence to the Russians literally all bets are off on everything else.


*and believe me, my feelings are, to put it lightly, less than warm.
posted by Anonymous at 2:50 PM on May 16, 2017


I believe Comey's testimony and memo will be article #1 when the House passes articles of impeachment in January of 2019. (The Senate will vote it down something like 53-47).
posted by Justinian at 2:51 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Sorry schroedinger but that massive treason scandal is so two hours ago
posted by theodolite at 2:52 PM on May 16, 2017 [53 favorites]


Burr says the "burden is on the New York Times" to produce the memos, not on Comey. Says there may be an effort to undermine the president.

Senator Richard Burr, chair of the "investigation" into Trump's ties with Russia, is most concerned about an "effort to undermine the president".
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:53 PM on May 16, 2017 [56 favorites]


Oh, for anyone not familiar with court proceedings; contemporaneous notes from a law enforcement officer, particularly an FBI agent, are generally held to be very strong and credible evidence in court. Jails are filled with people as a result of contemporaneous notes.
posted by Justinian at 2:53 PM on May 16, 2017 [25 favorites]


Burr says the "burden is on the New York Times" to produce the memos, not on Comey. Says there may be an effort to undermine the president..

talk less
posted by entropicamericana at 2:54 PM on May 16, 2017 [43 favorites]


Surely the burden should be on the guy who can subpoena whoever the heck he wants for government documents, because it's literally his job to look at them?
posted by zachlipton at 2:54 PM on May 16, 2017 [58 favorites]


foxnews.com's top story isn't Seth Rich any more, but: JUMPING THE GUN? Congressional Dems making early calls for Trump's impeachment

Despite the foxnewsey LOLbrals tone of the story itself, the question mark and the unflattering photo are...unexpected.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:54 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Huh. "Jumping the gun" just means "too soon" not "doing something unthinkable."

Huh.
posted by emjaybee at 2:57 PM on May 16, 2017 [31 favorites]


My favorite part of the NYT article is "The memo was part of a paper trail Mr. Comey created documenting what he perceived as the president’s improper efforts", which sounds like reporter-speak for "this is not the only thing Comey has to say on the matter". I cannot wait until he gets a chance to offer public testimony.
posted by Schismatic at 2:57 PM on May 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


Burr * Tillis. Pfft. Useless morons just like the rest of the republican fartknockers down here in NC
posted by yoga at 2:59 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Huh. "Jumping the gun" just means "too soon" not "doing something unthinkable."

That's exactly my reaction; are they suggesting the problem is being too eager? Getting an unfair headstart? I suspect it's a chryon writer who just didn't think through the implications of the phrase, but...huh. Huh indeed.
posted by nubs at 3:00 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Toomey making these noises is especially significant because he was re-elected in 2016, so if this is electoral calculus he's betting that sticking by Trump now would hurt him in 2022.

PA residents, here is the contact info for Toomey's offices. Everything goes to voice mail because of "high call volume", and sometimes faxes don't get through the first time, but there's a certain satisfaction to be had out of repeatedly reminding him of his campaign pledge that he would "not be a rubber stamp" for Trump.
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:03 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


My rep, Adam Schiff, just walked to the mic and called for Comey to testify in open session, for any notes relevant to the situation, and for any tapes of the conversation even if they must be subpoenaed.

You get 'em, Schiffy.
posted by Justinian at 3:04 PM on May 16, 2017 [77 favorites]


You're the worst, Burr.

I have to assume that the whole point of leaking information about the memos but not the documents themselves was to wave a giant red "subpoena this shit" flag in front of Burr.
posted by zachlipton at 3:04 PM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


i feel drunk
posted by murphy slaw at 3:06 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Adam Schiff: "Enough is enough."

He says that he believes this is beyond the scope of the intelligence committee and should involve the Judiciary committee. That may be inside baseball but is very important. The intelligence committee is not involved in domestic crimes or recommendations of impeachment, but the judiciary committee most certainly is.
posted by Justinian at 3:07 PM on May 16, 2017 [86 favorites]


Graham has invited Comey to testify before the Judiciary Committee (or perhaps the subcommittee Graham chairs), so who needs Burr?
posted by zachlipton at 3:08 PM on May 16, 2017 [41 favorites]


White House already denying that Trump asked Comey to stop his investigation of Flynn.

The iron law of Trump tells us that he will tweet out at 5:00AM tomorrow that he threatened Comey "like a dog" not to investigate his good friend Michael Flynn.
posted by dhens at 3:08 PM on May 16, 2017 [25 favorites]


Maybe you have to physically prevent a Supreme Court justice from moving?
posted by kirkaracha at 3:10 PM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


The WH statement says the NYT story/memo "is not a truthful or accurate portrayal of the conversation."

That would be the conversation they just confirmed as having occurred.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:10 PM on May 16, 2017 [55 favorites]


If FBI agents come to put the President in handcuffs, can the President just extemporaneously fire them all until there's just a pair of handcuffs on the ground?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:11 PM on May 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


Story now confirmed by NBC News, FT, and WaPo. Once again, someone leaked far and wide.
posted by zachlipton at 3:12 PM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


If FBI agents come to put the President in handcuffs, can the President just extemporaneously fire them all until there's just a pair of handcuffs on the ground?

Maybe, but no fair camping at their spawn point, you know.
posted by LionIndex at 3:13 PM on May 16, 2017 [21 favorites]


I love to have a humorous jape with my friend the director of the FBI who is investigating me for treason about how he should stop investigating me for treason or I will fire him and then, through comical circumstances, fire him and deny any of that ever happened.
posted by Copronymus at 3:13 PM on May 16, 2017 [41 favorites]




I'm guessing it was a source close to James Comey. A source coterminous, coincident, commensurate and coextensive with James Comey.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:14 PM on May 16, 2017 [41 favorites]


Earlier this afternoon: Maggie Haberman at the NYT -- 'We were told...by a half-dozen advisers [that] Trump is dreading the overseas trip.'

I think this is going to get weird. I know, I know, it's all weird, but this is the guy who flew home(s) every night during the primaries, right? Has he ever been away for this long, recently? If this is part of some kind of untreated fear or phobia I can easily see him deciding to bolt mid-visit, even mid-meeting. I say this sincerely; I've noped out of outings with friends because they became too crowded or overwhelming.

So, what exactly would be the health consequences of not pooping for eight days? Asking for an enemy.

Thank you for asking. After four or five days your enemy would end up in the ER in so much pain they couldn't sit up and then be given a dose of Suprep that will turn their ass into a shit-filled automatic machine gun. Do not ask me how I know.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:14 PM on May 16, 2017 [23 favorites]


Jeffrey Toobin on CNN says that if true this would be felony obstruction of justice.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:18 PM on May 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


I was completely caught up when I shut down my computer at work. I drove 30 minutes home. I immediately opened MetaFilter. And crazy shit happened while I was away!
posted by diogenes at 3:18 PM on May 16, 2017 [48 favorites]


White House already denying that Trump asked Comey to stop his investigation of Flynn.

I think they have a point. He didn't ask, per se - he said "I hope you can let this go." See? No question mark.
posted by nubs at 3:19 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Senator King (I-ME) pretty much agreeing, if true it's "very close to the definition of obstruction of justice". Now talking about impeachment.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:20 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Angus King said they've only had 2 presidents impeached in American history; Johnson and Nixon.

He should know better, there have been 3.
posted by Justinian at 3:20 PM on May 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


And crazy shit happened while I was away!

The tagline for 2017
posted by nubs at 3:21 PM on May 16, 2017 [20 favorites]


I mean, Trump confessed to obstruction of justice to Lester Holt last week, so I think this is more of a "I'll just put this over here, with the rest of the fire" situation at this point.
posted by zachlipton at 3:21 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


I love to have a humorous jape with my friend the director of the FBI who is investigating me for treason about how he should stop investigating me for treason or I will fire him and then, through comical circumstances, fire him and deny any of that ever happened.

That's cool.

Just don't tweet at the entire world about how you tape all your conversations, or that might be problematic.
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:22 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Angus King said they've only had 2 presidents impeached in American history; Johnson and Nixon.

He should know better, there have been 3.


Johnson and Clinton. The House drew up articles of impeachment but Nixon resigned before they could vote on it.
posted by dhens at 3:22 PM on May 16, 2017 [34 favorites]


Jesus, guys. I'm not a nap-taker, but I guess I'm stressed or something, because they are becoming a semi-regular thing. The last three naps I've taken, I've woken up to absolute what-the-fuckery. I'm scared.
posted by thebrokedown at 3:22 PM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


President Trump is a known flight risk who may have access to an air force
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:22 PM on May 16, 2017 [88 favorites]


He should know better, there have been 3.

Only two. Clinton was impeached. Nixon wasn't. (But would've been if he hadn't resigned first.)

(FiveThirtyEight has a look at how many elected Republicans stayed loyal to Nixon right up through the impeachment proceedings...)
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:23 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Republicans should know the meaning of “obstruction of justice.” They spent Obama’s last year in office literally obstructing a Justice.
posted by guiseroom at 3:23 PM on May 16, 2017 [42 favorites]




WaPo's Ashley Parker notes that Comey's memo is reportedly "two pages long and highly detailed."
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:24 PM on May 16, 2017 [26 favorites]




The last three naps I've taken, I've woken up to absolute what-the-fuckery. I'm scared.

Likewise. That's some Lathe of Heaven shit right there.
posted by bibliowench at 3:26 PM on May 16, 2017 [18 favorites]


My birthday is Friday. I believe at this point I should wait until Thursday to account for the latest wtfery to make my formal birthday politics thread request, but I am open to suggestions.
posted by nubs at 3:26 PM on May 16, 2017 [12 favorites]



Jesus, guys. I'm not a nap-taker, but I guess I'm stressed or something, because they are becoming a semi-regular thing. The last three naps I've taken, I've woken up to absolute what-the-fuckery. I'm scared.


Hey man, if I can't take naps then I don't think it's fair you get to, come on now
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:28 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


An important question here: if the memo was shared with DOJ, as the Post reports, who knew about it? Did Sessions and/or Rosenstein? If so, I don't think it's at all an exaggeration to say that they were part of a conspiracy to obstruct justice.
posted by zachlipton at 3:28 PM on May 16, 2017 [38 favorites]


Sen. Marco Rubio: "it is inescapable now"

Glassy-eyed Marco Rubio, ashing his cigarette into the Big Hug Mug and staring into a distant inner darkness: "time is a flat circle"
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:28 PM on May 16, 2017 [21 favorites]




I was out-pedanted! Good job Metafilter.

Lots more impeachment talk on the television. Is it happening? Is this the end of Surely This?!?
posted by Justinian at 3:30 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Thank you for asking.

No, thank you for sharing.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:30 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I feel like we are all Feinstein coming off the metro.
posted by gofargogo at 3:31 PM on May 16, 2017 [45 favorites]


Congress is breaking. @rachaelmbade: I just asked @DarrellIssa abt the Comey news and he flicked me off -- literally gave me the middle finger -- and kept walking. Said nothing
posted by zachlipton at 3:32 PM on May 16, 2017 [105 favorites]


Have we crossed the Rubicon? I think we crossed the Rubicon.
posted by diogenes at 3:32 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Lots more impeachment talk on the television. Is it happening? Is this the end of Surely This?!?

This is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.
posted by nubs at 3:32 PM on May 16, 2017 [46 favorites]


An important question here: if the memo was shared with DOJ, as the Post reports, who knew about it? Did Sessions and/or Rosenstein? If so, I don't think it's at all an exaggeration to say that they were part of a conspiracy to obstruct justice.

Actually, NYT says, "It is unclear whether Mr. Comey told the Justice Department about the conversation or his memos."

I think another important question is, when the Attorney General is the head of the Justice Department and the superior of the FBI Director, why would you make a point of sending the former out of the room before having a conversation about anything at all with the latter? Consciousness of guilt, plausible deniability.

(Obviously, you'd send Mike Pence out of the room because he's a complete nonentity whom you enjoy leaving out of every possible loop for kicks.)
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:33 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Is it happening? Is this the end of Surely This?!?

Have we crossed the Rubicon? I think we crossed the Rubicon.


Hmm, RON_PAUL_IT_S_HAPPENING.GIF ?!? (self-link)
posted by dhens at 3:33 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


‪Fox News saying they can't get any Republicans to appear.‬
posted by glhaynes at 3:34 PM on May 16, 2017 [55 favorites]


Trump is running out of options to change the narrative. Maybe he could reveal his crew of detectives, finally back from Hawaii.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:35 PM on May 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


Likelihood of Trimpy leaving for his upcoming trip?
posted by dhens at 3:36 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm calling it! It's happening!

(I reserve the right to define "it" however I please at a later date.)
posted by diogenes at 3:36 PM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Mod note: Your regular reminder to please not just post single tweets - we're looking for value-added discussion or substantial links. Thanks!
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 3:37 PM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


this is either a quick end for trump or a slow agonizing end for the republican party
posted by murphy slaw at 3:37 PM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


This news with a swell of rare hope again, and something else besides it: I had become afraid of hope. But now that I am used to losing it, I do not fear its loss again. It is pure and unbridled and free of my prejudice. What a rush.

Burn this administration to the ground. Burn the white house if we can't pry them out of it. We can rebuild. We will rebuild.
posted by an animate objects at 3:38 PM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


this is either a quick end for trump or a slow agonizing end for the republican party

I hope. There are other possibilities but they mostly involve a lot of people dying.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:38 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


this is either a quick end for trump or a slow agonizing end for the republican party

I'll take both please!
posted by diogenes at 3:38 PM on May 16, 2017 [39 favorites]


A question for anyone with the right legal knowledge... my understanding is that in some circumstances, a U.S. court can end up needing to make decisions based on another country's laws. So, could we end up seeing something like an Israeli citizen bringing a lawsuit in a U.S. court against Trump for violating Israel's laws governing classified information? Even a lawsuit that wouldn't ultimately succeed.
posted by XMLicious at 3:39 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I saw Texas Rep. Farenthold talking to Greta on the news, spinning for team R, and it was weak. He said (paraphrased) that the President can't get a break and the press was more forgiving towards Obama. I must be giddy, because I thought that was esp. weak spin.
posted by puddledork at 3:40 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


I think the Republicans in the legislature have made a huge tactical error--if the Popular Vote Loser goes down, he's pulling all them down too because he has no sense of self-sacrifice for any greater good.

I think that's why so many Republicans have been dragging their feet: They know if the truth gets out, the rotten stench will cling to anyone close to him. He will probably also name names--possibly as part of a deal for leniency...or just in a fit of televised rage.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 3:41 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


We should just tell Trump we're divorcing him for a younger president.
posted by drezdn at 3:41 PM on May 16, 2017 [43 favorites]


@davidfrum
This is no longer about Trump. We know what he is. It's about Congress and specifically Republicans in Congress. Who are they?

@chrislhayes
“It's probably better to have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in.” -- LBJ on J Edgar Hoover

@RVAwonk
---> @KenDilanianNBC just reported that Comey "plans to go public" about the memos he kept from his meetings with Trump.
posted by chris24 at 3:42 PM on May 16, 2017 [44 favorites]




Let's say we get the minimum 22 Republicans needed to impeach. Maybe even a few more jump onboard after that. Do you think their constituents will decide that if the Rs agree to impeach that maybe there is cause, or do all these people revolt?
posted by Room 641-A at 3:44 PM on May 16, 2017


What I still don't get is why, short of outright kompromat, Trump has been so eager to defend Flynn. He's a guy who throws subordinates under the bus left and right. Yet he's been fuming about having to fire Flynn for months. It doesn't make sense.
posted by zachlipton at 3:44 PM on May 16, 2017 [25 favorites]


Let's say we get the minimum 22 Republicans needed to impeach. Maybe even a few more jump onboard after that. Do you think their constituents will decide that if the Rs agree to impeach that maybe there is cause, or do all these people revolt?

There are 23 Rs in districts Clinton won. It might not be catastrophic for them.
posted by chris24 at 3:46 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


altopower, yo, happiest of birthdays.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:46 PM on May 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


zachlipton, because he's hopelessly corrupt as well, and if flynn falls, so does he.
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 3:47 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I a so so glad that Trump fired Comey. This is some serious poetic justice. Comey has been just gathering his papers and waiting for the right time.
posted by Jalliah at 3:47 PM on May 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


Likelihood of Trimpy leaving for his upcoming trip?

New Theory: All of Trump's missteps, stupidity and crimes or near-crimes in the last few weeks are part of an elaborate scheme to build an excuse to skip this trip.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:47 PM on May 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


Quick Timeline:
Feb. 13: Flynn resigns
Feb. 14: WH convo prompting Comey memo occurs ("...the day after Mr. Flynn resigned...")
Feb. 15: "He will die in jail."
posted by SpaceBass at 3:48 PM on May 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


There are 23 Rs in districts Clinton won. It might not be catastrophic for them.

That sounds like good news.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:49 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


It's also possible that Trump's relationship to Russia is worst-case-scenario bad, and Flynn was the main conduit for that relationship.
posted by diogenes at 3:49 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


I have a feeling that very soon, we are going to hear a medley of Jeff Sessions' greatest hit: "I just don't recall this meeting, who was present, or what was discussed, y'all."
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:49 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


IT IS MY BIRTHDAY ON THURSDAY, IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO GET ME AN IMPEACHMENT
posted by mothershock at 3:50 PM on May 16, 2017 [97 favorites]


Do not forget how many alleged "serious professionals" with "integrity" have disappointed and even horrified us already. See Mattis, McMaster, Comey, etc.

Do not underestimate how far McConnell and Ryan can shove their heads up their own asses. They will always be able to push inward another inch. There's a very good chance this shit will still be going on in July and their canned response will become, "Gosh, you guys have been going on about all this for six months!"

I'm as hopeful as anyone that things are turning, but keep your resolve with your hope. If it's not this, it will eventually be something else. In the meantime, we call, we write, we speak up, we show up to protests. We fight.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:51 PM on May 16, 2017 [24 favorites]


Perfect timing for this story: Democrats try to punch through with message, but Trump scandals get in the way. Dems are meeting, talking about policy and trying to stand for something, yet Trump chaos keeps happening.
posted by zachlipton at 3:51 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


prediction: trump diverts af1 to russia, stays
posted by entropicamericana at 3:52 PM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]




Like a plate of fugu, a mortally wounded Trunp is both dangerous and delicious.

I'd love to see Trump trapped in the international arrivals pavilion of the Moscow airport for weeks like Edward Snowden once was.
posted by spitbull at 3:53 PM on May 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


I don't think this is the worst thing Trump will do in office (and he may, for all we know, have already done worse things). I also firmly believe that there will be no attempt at impeachment, no Article 58 as long as Republicans control the House and/or Senate. The most that might happen is that the House fails to impeach him and Trump goes "see, tried and found innocent" and then goes on to do even worse stuff.

This isn't me being fatalistic - I really think the R's are just bound too tightly to him now and there's no way out for them except to keep him there signing granny-starving legislation.

So, anyhow, resist, remind yourself this isn't normal, stay outraged and help people register to vote everywhere that they're trying to make it harder to register to vote.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:56 PM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


It's a real shame that #SethRich got completely drowned out by #Flynn. So many bot hours wasted.
posted by diogenes at 3:57 PM on May 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


I a so so glad that Trump fired Comey. This is some serious poetic justice. Comey has been just gathering his papers and waiting for the right time.

I have to wonder if Comey had already dropped the memo before yesterday or if the Russia Blab was the last straw. Either way, every time he releases another one, he reduces his karmic debt.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:58 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


I really think the R's are just bound too tightly to him now and there's no way out for them except to keep him there signing granny-starving legislation.

Isn't Mike Pence a way out?
posted by mr_roboto at 3:59 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'd love to see Trump trapped in the international arrivals pavilion of the Moscow airport for weeks like Edward Snowden once was.

Throw Assange in and it could make an entertaining premise for a one-set stage play.
posted by acb at 3:59 PM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Maybe this is all a grand plot to stop Melania and Barron from moving in.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:59 PM on May 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


I was inspired by Justinian.

edit: I don't know the date....
posted by INFJ at 4:00 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'd love to see Trump trapped in the international arrivals pavilion of the Moscow airport for weeks like Edward Snowden once was.'

I can think of nothing more fitting than Trump detained indefinitely by the Customs and Immigration Service of some foreign nation and unable ever to re-enter the US. See how he likes it.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:00 PM on May 16, 2017 [21 favorites]


This is where I think even the cravenly hypocritical Republicans get in trouble; the corollary is just so obvious, simple and clear cut.

@TheRickWilson
1/ Imagine this:
Barack Obama calls James Comey to the White House.

2/ “I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Hillary go. She is a good person. I hope you can let this go.”

3/ Now tell me what Fox, and every clickservative would be doing right this minute?
Spoiler: Screaming for impeachment
posted by chris24 at 4:01 PM on May 16, 2017 [51 favorites]


The minimum I'll accept is having the name "Trump" turned into mud and removed from all public spaces and properties, and that Trump is unable to show his face in public again.
posted by rhizome at 4:02 PM on May 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


I a so so glad that Trump fired Comey. This is some serious poetic justice. Comey has been just gathering his papers and waiting for the right time.

I don't know if I would call it poetic justice, but Comey could be the first FBI director to bring down both a presidential candidate and a president.
posted by nubs at 4:03 PM on May 16, 2017 [18 favorites]


I teach BODYCOMBAT on Tuesdays, which meant I was teaching on election night and I'm teaching tonight with all of this going on. I should be getting ready to go teach, but I keep reloading this thread. Coincidentally, my playlist tonight is spot-on to the unfolding events.
Bust 'Em/Don't Stop the Madness/The Thrill
How We Do
On My Way
Hey Mama
Pieces
1 in 100000 (with prominent lyric "I'm not in it for the sprint, I'm in it for the marathon")
Black Pearl (which is just piratey nonsense, but still)
Out of My Hands
Don't Let Me Down
and finishing up with I See Fire

Resistance inspired stuff keeps making it into my coaching. I don't think I can work "obstruction of justice" into a MMA cardio class, but I might try.
posted by danielleh at 4:05 PM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


At lunch today, Kushner sat across from Erdogan's son-in-law (Albayrak) [picture]. Both sons-in-law have government positions.

There were around 7-9 people injured at a protest in front of the Turkish Ambassador's residence [video], with one taken to the hospital and one arrested. I've seen a few conflicting reports about what happened, though it seems that Kurdish protesters were the ones injured. I'd appreciate links to more solid reporting on this if anyone sees any.
posted by zachlipton at 4:05 PM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


“the president has never asked Mr. Comey or anyone else to end an investigation, including any investigation involving General Flynn. . . . This is not a truthful or accurate portrayal of the conversation between the president and Mr. Comey.’’

This is probably true in the same way "Nice place, be a shame if anything happened to it" is not threatening to burn down an establishment if the proprietor doesn't pay the mob protection money.

Oh, hey, would RICO apply here? I'm gunning for treason charges, but in the interest of keeping realistic expectations RICO charges would be some poetic justice for these would-be mafiosi.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 4:05 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


And crazy shit happened while I was away!

The tagline for 2017


Well, I think it beats 2016's "Oh my god, you know who just died?"
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:06 PM on May 16, 2017 [58 favorites]


Is it possible that the President was so stupid that he did not realize he was not allowed to ask the FBI Director to stop investigating his campaign?

Hell yes it is! But ignorance is no defense!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:07 PM on May 16, 2017 [21 favorites]


I'm with everyone else who is starting to wonder if this trip to the Middle East & NATO and whatnot is actually gonna happen. As soon as I saw the list of people going with Twitler I thought, "Does he feel helpless without them? Or does he not trust any of them to be left back home? Or both?"
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:08 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


At lunch today, Kushner sat across from Erdogan's son-in-law (Albayrak) [picture]. Both sons-in-law have government positions.

Wait, hold up. Is that DJ in the background?
posted by loquacious at 4:09 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


New Josh Marshall piece: This isn't Smoke. It's Fire
We talk a lot about smoke and fire. But this isn’t smoke. This is the fire. It’s not clear to me what more we need to know. The only question is whether we decide to put it out or just let it keep burning. As I said above, I bet we’re going to let it burn for quite a while longer.

President Trump fired the FBI Director – by his own account because he was upset about the investigation into his and his associates ties to Russia. We now learn he straight out asked the FBI Director to end the investigation into Michael Flynn three months ago. Last week he decided in the spur of the moment to share highly classified information with the Russian Foreign Minister.[...]

Firing an FBI Director while such an investigation like this is afoot is something like that, breaking a fence. In theory, the President has every right to fire an FBI Director. But doing so while such an investigation is underway has the look of trying to end the investigation. But in this case, asking Comey to end the probe itself doesn’t break one of the fences. It’s the thing itself. There’s no question of intent or misunderstandings. It’s the hand in the register. There’s just nothing more to know. It’s the thing itself.
Trump's actions go so far beyond scandal that it "defies credulity", as Chuck Schumer said to Alberto Gonzales. These actions are High Crimes and Misdemeanors that in my non-legal opinion constitute "adhering to the Enemies" of the USA and "giving them Aid and Comfort". Been quoting Article III, Section 3 a lot, but I think it bears repeating--particularly to any and all legislators, as well as the Free Press.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:09 PM on May 16, 2017 [36 favorites]


Is it possible that the President was so stupid that he did not realize

I'm gonna stop you right there
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 4:09 PM on May 16, 2017 [38 favorites]


so is this what it's like when you're in an abusive relationship, and they have been gaslighting you like hell, and then a friend comes up to you and says "you're not crazy, he's fucking with you about everything. come and crash on my couch and we'll figure this out"?

i was honestly thinking that i was turning into a strings-and-pins conspiracy theorist in spite of everything and now suddenly it's real in an obvious way and i can breathe again.
posted by murphy slaw at 4:09 PM on May 16, 2017 [42 favorites]


Paraphrasing Dr. House, "It's never RICO."
posted by rhizome at 4:10 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Trump's disclosure endangered spy placed inside ISIS by Israel, officials say: The spy provided intelligence involving an active ISIS plot to bring down a passenger jet en route to the United States, with a bomb hidden in a laptop that U.S. officials believe can get through airport screening machines undetected. The information was reliable enough that the U.S. is considering a ban on laptops on all flights from Europe to the United States.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:10 PM on May 16, 2017 [23 favorites]


I was busy today so I had to stop catching up and left off reading this thread at around 11:30. When I got home I checked twitter and saw the Comey memo stuff. I forced myself to go back through and read all the comments and I kept thinking, "Hoo Boy! they ain't seen nothing yet!" It's a little like time travel, I guess, reading what you had to say back in the innocent hours before today's bombshell dropped.

As to Senator Burr (and Tillis) Here is tomorrow's postcard: Time to pick, Senator. Choose Country over party and be the hero or Party over Country and get dragged down into the mud with Trump. Be a Hero! You know what to do.

I do believe that history will be kind to those Republicans who jump ship first and the smart ones must be making their calculations even as I write this.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:14 PM on May 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


"Memo" is such a quiet, unassuming word. I'm not sure it's up for this.
posted by diogenes at 4:15 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


so is this what it's like when you're in an abusive relationship, and they have been gaslighting you like hell, and then a friend comes up to you and says "you're not crazy, he's fucking with you about everything. come and crash on my couch and we'll figure this out"?

It's sort of like that, only there is no couch
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:15 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


The Murdoch-owned WSJ is confirming the story. So much for fake news.

Trump told Comey that he hoped he could find a way to drop the FBI’s probe of Flynn, according to memo
posted by chris24 at 4:16 PM on May 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


There is a couch, but it is also on fire.
posted by acb at 4:16 PM on May 16, 2017 [18 favorites]


Burr says the "burden is on the New York Times" to produce the memos, not on Comey

Right, because he's more comfortable talking shit about the Times. While I think he's not been an awesome FBI Director, Comey is going to be pretty untouchable throughout this, and Burr knows if he starts attacking Comey it's only going to make Burr look bad. So, the Times.
posted by rhizome at 4:17 PM on May 16, 2017


It's a little like time travel, I guess, reading what you had to say back in the innocent hours before today's bombshell dropped.

Those simple, innocent times when we were discussing Trump giving his Russian handler classified information in the oval office.
posted by diogenes at 4:17 PM on May 16, 2017 [35 favorites]


He's a guy who throws subordinates under the bus left and right. Yet he's been fuming about having to fire Flynn for months. It doesn't make sense.

It's because he's being forced to do it. He's a goddamn giant toddler with Oppositional Defiant Disorder. He's all too happy to throw people under the bus all fucking day if it's his prerogative, but if someone else is forcing him to do it he'll have a giant tantrum and apparently commit multiple felonies in the process.
posted by Existential Dread at 4:18 PM on May 16, 2017 [29 favorites]


Republican officials: see my first comment in this thread. I've got an opening in my consulting schedule, and I'd consider myself rich for less than the cost of a super-bowl ad. Just sayin'.
posted by maxwelton at 4:18 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Time to bust out "memorandum," diogenes. "Memoranda" if you're nasty.
posted by mynameisluka at 4:18 PM on May 16, 2017 [24 favorites]


Excellent trolling by Comey. No one is going to be able to control the toddler response now - and the tapes and other corroborating evidence have to come out.

What if Comey is flat out lying about Trump's request to "let go" of the Flynn investigation -- and it's a bluff to trick Trump into revealing his secret taping system to disprove it? 45D chess indeed.

I'd love to see that happen, and Comey go "Oh, weird! I thought I remembered that. Guess I was wrong. Oh well."
posted by msalt at 4:18 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump told Comey that...

This of course being the sophist's crux: "NOOOOO, Trump didn't ask Comey to drop the case!"

Correct, because I'm thinking he told him to.
posted by rhizome at 4:19 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


The only was I can see Trump spinning this one is that it's blackmail by Comey. If Trump asked him to give Flynn a pass, then Comey should have reported it to (who?) and not held it until he wanted revenge.

What is the protocol for an FBI director if the president asks you to do something illegal, anyway?
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:20 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


What if Comey is flat out lying about Trump's request to "let go" of the Flynn investigation -- and it's a bluff to trick Trump into revealing his secret taping system to disprove it? 45D chess indeed.

if this administration has taught me anything, it is that everything is at least as stupid as it seems.
posted by murphy slaw at 4:21 PM on May 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


What is the protocol for an FBI director if the president asks you to do something illegal, anyway?

In this administration the protocol is "do it or be fired and replaced"
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:22 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


@SopanDeb
What is Mike Pence thinking right now?

@brianbeutler
Republicans should reason that it was only a few years between Nixon's resignation and Reagan’s election and cut the cord.

Senator Tammy Duckworth
I eagerly await the White House’s 2nd, 5th and 9th explanations for this one

@gabrielsnyder
The most important unanswered question right now: why is Trump so willing to risk his presidency to help Michael Flynn?
posted by chris24 at 4:24 PM on May 16, 2017 [31 favorites]


What is the protocol for an FBI director if the president asks you to do something illegal, anyway?

This is precisely the problem, as Lindsay Graham just said: "If this happened the FBI director should have done something about it or quit."

I mean, writing a memo for the record and walling it off from the active investigation isn't a bad answer, but it again speaks to Comey's pattern of making certain interesting choices when deciding when to speak out and when to stay silent.

As a reminder, if Comey didn't send a different memo back in October, there's a very good argument we'd all be arguing about President Clinton's use of drone strikes right now.
posted by zachlipton at 4:25 PM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Free idea for YouTube gold: President Elsa's song encouraging Comey to Let It Go
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:26 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


What is the protocol for an FBI director if the president asks you to do something illegal, anyway?

This is precisely the problem, as Lindsay Graham just said: "If this happened the FBI director should have done something about it or quit."


Isn't Comey's answer that he felt Trump was a potential suspect/material witness and didn't want to compromise a larger, deeper investigation?
posted by chris24 at 4:27 PM on May 16, 2017 [41 favorites]


IT IS MY BIRTHDAY ON THURSDAY, IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO GET ME AN IMPEACHMENT

Mine is tomorrow, I'd like all of Comey's memos entered into the congressional record for my bday please
posted by jason_steakums at 4:27 PM on May 16, 2017 [35 favorites]


Maybe he didn't do anything because with the nature of what Trump was saying he ended up considering those convos part of the overall investigation.
posted by Jalliah at 4:29 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


My birthday is also tomorrow. Perhaps our combined Taurus power can cut through the bull!
posted by WordCannon at 4:29 PM on May 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


From Jon Cooper on twitter: White House sources say Trump is cursing up a storm - ranting and raving. Yelling at staffers & using the "F" word. He's losing it tonight.

Just imagine me with a cigarette and a glass of top shelf booze murmuring "exquisite," because that is how I feel inside.
posted by yasaman at 4:30 PM on May 16, 2017 [96 favorites]


Trump's disclosure endangered spy placed inside ISIS by Israel, officials say: The spy provided intelligence involving an active ISIS plot to bring down a passenger jet en route to the United States

A grim reminder that this amateur hour has consequences. Our allies are going to stop trusting us with intelligence that could prevent the deaths of innocent people.
posted by Emily's Fist at 4:30 PM on May 16, 2017 [28 favorites]


This is precisely the problem, as Lindsay Graham just said: "If this happened the FBI director should have done something about it or quit."

He should have sent a memo to the chair of the House Oversight Committee. He's really good at keeping secrets.
posted by diogenes at 4:31 PM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


My birthday is also tomorrow. Perhaps our combined Taurus power can cut through the bull!

So we've got people with birthdays tomorrow, Thursday and Friday. Let's use our wishes for good, people!
posted by nubs at 4:32 PM on May 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


White House sources say Trump is cursing up a storm - ranting and raving. Yelling at staffers & using the "F" word. He's losing it tonight.

By Jupiter's beard, I hope someone has the nuclear football locked away.
posted by Behemoth at 4:32 PM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


All those soft-focus, cuddly, humanizing portraits of Ivanka and Jared won't do shit to shield them from the flaming pile of garbage coming down on their heads from Daddy's implosion.
posted by Existential Dread at 4:32 PM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


The Seth Rich story increasingly looks like a fake news diversion, which perhaps someone at Fox News has been keeping in their back pocket for an occasion like Trump's blurting of secrets to Russia. (Unfortunately for them, Comedy had his own back pocket morsel.)

Little noticed in this WaPo stoy on Rich is strong evidence discrediting the private investigator that a conservative businessman and Fox "News" contributor hired (and paid for) on behalf of Rich's family. The PI's name is Rod Wheeler.
Wheeler said that he worked for D.C. police from 1989 to 1998 and once was a detective in the homicide unit. He said in an interview that he was told by a D.C. police detective involved in the investigation that there is evidence that DNC files were possibly transferred from Rich’s computer to a WikiLeaks representative. He declined to identify his source, and he did not return phone calls seeking comment after Rich’s family had publicly criticized him.

D.C. police said that Wheeler worked as an officer from 1990 to 1995, and officials were checking records to determine if he served in homicide. Sternbeck, the police spokesman, said that Wheeler was fired from the agency.
Another story I saw recently quoted Rich's family spokesman as saying that Wheeler explicitly agreed not to make any public statements without approval by the family, and just violated that agreement.
posted by msalt at 4:33 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


The Seth Rich story increasingly looks like a fake news diversion

It looked exactly like a fake news diversion from the get go.
posted by diogenes at 4:35 PM on May 16, 2017 [48 favorites]


I too have a birthday of some sort! Let's make this happen, I guess!
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:35 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm designing a stock trading algorithm on the basis of 'surely this' density on metafilter
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 4:35 PM on May 16, 2017 [25 favorites]


I do believe that history will be kind to those Republicans who jump ship first

History will not be kind to anyone who was on the ship in the first place.>
posted by schadenfrau at 4:36 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


...Lindsay Graham just said: "If this happened the FBI director should have done something about it or quit."

“Just like I always do whenever a campaign donor intimates that they expect a quid pro quo!”
posted by XMLicious at 4:38 PM on May 16, 2017


So Im sitting in business ethics class right now. The chapter is Management and Leadership ethics.
People keep murmuring 'trump' and I can't stop giggling.
posted by Jalliah at 4:38 PM on May 16, 2017 [27 favorites]


The RNC is sending out press statements defending Trump, citing McCabe's testimony that the White House didn't try to impede the investigation.

That leads to another important question for Comey: did McCabe know anything about Trump's request to Comey? Important to know whether McCabe didn't know or lied to Congress.

Also, you know how around this time every day, The Daily Beast publishes a story where anonymous WH sources describe how everything is going to hell around them? Today's edition is coming shortly: "this one is kinda profanity-laced as you'd probs guess/expect."
posted by zachlipton at 4:38 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Mod note: As the person batting cleanup for Team Taurus, I approve this plan but let's let it go in-thread so the other 11/12ths of the population don't feel left out.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 4:39 PM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


> surely this?

Yeah no need, it already says nothing but "Swiss Francs are the shit"
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 4:41 PM on May 16, 2017




The thing is, I don't really see any way out of this for the Republicans. They can investigate Trump's fitness, find that he has some sort of dementia, and get rid of him, but then they have to admit that they lined up behind a guy who was so cognitively compromised that he couldn't do the job. I'm not sure how they could recover from that. I think their best bet is probably to try to keep him on as a figurehead and have someone else do the actual work of running the country.

Actually, their best bet is for the CIA to kill him and make it look like a heart attack, but I'm not sure that even the Republicans would actually do that.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:44 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]



History will not be kind to anyone who was on the ship in the first place.

Unfortunately, schadenfrau, we are a stupid people, and our history proves otherwise.
posted by Sophie1 at 4:47 PM on May 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


More Republicans acting like impeachment isn't an outrageous suggestion, but more of a timing issue.

Josh Barro: Trey Gowdy wants to see the memo and wants to see Comey testify. "We're a long ways from a conviction," he says.
posted by chris24 at 4:48 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trey Gowdy wants to see the memo and wants to see Comey testify. "We're a long ways from a conviction," he says.

You gotta start somewhere!
posted by diogenes at 4:50 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Trump Officials on Comey Memo: ‘Don’t See How Trump Isn’t Completely F*cked’: "I feel like running down the hallway with a fire extinguisher," one senior Trump administration official told The Daily Beast, in response to an inquiry regarding Tuesday’s developments.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:50 PM on May 16, 2017 [33 favorites]


Huh, the Trey Gowdy who just turned down the job of FBI Director?
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:50 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Also, you know how around this time every day, The Daily Beast publishes a story where anonymous WH sources describe how everything is going to hell around them?

And here it is [it's not literally every day, but it feels like it lately]: Trump Officials on Comey Memo: ‘Don’t See How Trump Isn’t Completely F*cked’
"The obstruction of justice articles of impeachment counts are stacking up, it seems,” an active duty FBI agent told The Daily Beast on Tuesday. Firing Comey, the agent added, was a “big gamble. You've got to kill him, metaphorically. You can't just wound him."
...
Trump administration officials described the current state of affairs in the West Wing as expectedly chaotic and anxious—but having an almost “numbing effect,” as one described it—as White House staff and senior Trump aides frantically jumped from one crisis and negative news cycle to the next.

"I feel like running down the hallway with a fire extinguisher," one senior Trump administration official told The Daily Beast, in response to an inquiry regarding Tuesday’s developments.
...
“Every time I feel like we’re getting a handle on the last Russia fiasco, a new one pops,” a White House staffer told The Daily Beast on Monday evening. On Tuesday, after reports of the Comey memo began to circulate, the staffer revised that assessment: “I guess I was wrong about the timing,” the staffer said. “We can’t even wrap up one Russia fiasco before we’re on to the next one.”

A senior official in the Trump administration, who previously worked on the president’s campaign, offered a candid and brief assessment of the fallout from that string of bad press: “I don’t see how Trump isn’t completely fucked.”
Maybe, just maybe, if you work in the White House and feel the need to call up a reporter and say this stuff on a regular basis, you should quit?
posted by zachlipton at 4:50 PM on May 16, 2017 [48 favorites]


"We're a long ways from a conviction," he says.
Well, the longer this drags out, the more damage it will cause to the Republican Brand the closer to the 2018 elections, so take your time, dudes. Not to mention the fact that we really don't want President Pence and company to get a quick, clean start...
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:52 PM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Firing Comey, the agent added, was a “big gamble. You've got to kill him, metaphorically. You can't just wound him."

I wonder how long that comma was.
posted by theodolite at 4:52 PM on May 16, 2017 [45 favorites]


This is my cake bet for the upcoming trip, with the caveat that the trip actually happens.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:53 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


From Jon Cooper on twitter: White House sources say Trump is cursing up a storm - ranting and raving. Yelling at staffers & using the "F" word. He's losing it tonight.

Please also note his pinned tweet: Sources say White House staff members are beginning to talk openly about their increasing concerns that Trump shows signs of early dementia.

If even Trump's inner circle is having to admit the likelihood he's suffering from Alzheimer's or dementia, his upcoming big travel plans are only going to exacerbate it. Here's what the Alzheimer's Association has to say on the topic: "While for most people traveling to new places is exciting, for the cognitively impaired traveling can be confusing. Being away from familiar surroundings, eating and sleeping in unfamiliar places, having your sleep pattern disrupted, having to speak and interact with strangers (such as airport and hotel staff) and having to follow directions that may not be fully understood; all the novelty of traveling may be actually confusing for Alzheimer’s and dementia patients. Confusion causes distress that may result in an unusual, potentially catastrophic behavior."

His insistence on sleeping at home or a Trump property during the campaign looks even more suspicious from that angle.
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:53 PM on May 16, 2017 [50 favorites]


More Republicans acting like impeachment isn't an outrageous suggestion, but more of a timing issue.

Josh Barro: Trey Gowdy wants to see the memo and wants to see Comey testify. "We're a long ways from a conviction," he says.


"Sweetie, it's time to get up and be a big boy representative!"

"Moooommm, just five more minutes!"
posted by jason_steakums at 4:55 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


So is someone going to be able to keep his phone away from him tonight? Because if not, the three AM tweet storm is going to be epic.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:55 PM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Well, I would not be a bit surprised if the spy on the ground was dead already, frankly.

Are there are no repercussions for the House to not impeach a president who has repeatedly, blatantly broken the law (and who should have never been allowed to take the oath with his known conflicts of interest)? If no one from the judicial or legislative branches does anything, are we screwed? I'm not a constitutional expert, so I'm asking in all seriousness.
posted by droplet at 4:56 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


“I don’t see how Trump isn’t completely fucked.”

This language is amazing. Not "we," not "the President." They just don't function like a real White House in any way.
posted by gerstle at 4:56 PM on May 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


Abby Phillip, WaPo: With Trump under fire, GOP fundraising pitch claims government officials are trying to ‘SABOTAGE’ his presidency
The one-word headline blared in all-caps: SABOTAGE.

The urgent missive hit inboxes of President Trump's supporters (and reporters) just minutes after a second damaging story in 24 hours was published, this one alleging that fired FBI Director James B. Comey wrote memos saying that Trump asked him to drop the FBI investigation into Trump's former national security adviser Michael Flynn. Just a day earlier, the White House sought to push back on a report in The Washington Post that Trump revealed classified information to the Russians in an Oval Office meeting last week.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:58 PM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


“I don’t see how Trump isn’t completely fucked.”

Please, please tell me this came from Pence.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:58 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Jon Cooper is chair of the Democratic Coalition. Insofar as any source is reliable for White House leaks, I wouldn't put him high on my list.
posted by zachlipton at 4:59 PM on May 16, 2017


The one-word headline blared in all-caps: SABOTAGE.

I'M GONNA SET IT STRAIGHT, THIS WATER...uh...gate.
posted by prize bull octorok at 5:00 PM on May 16, 2017 [56 favorites]


If no one from the judicial or legislative branches does anything, are we screwed? I'm not a constitutional expert, so I'm asking in all seriousness.

Impeachment or the 25th are the only options. (The 25th is invoked by the VP and requires a majority of the cabinet.)
posted by diogenes at 5:00 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Are there are no repercussions for the House to not impeach a president who has repeatedly, blatantly broken the law (and who should have never been allowed to take the oath with his known conflicts of interest)? If no one from the judicial or legislative branches does anything, are we screwed? I'm not a constitutional expert, so I'm asking in all seriousness.

The repercussions, if any, will be issued by the electorate in November 2018. If we don't give control of both houses of Congress to the Democrats, we're screwed.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:00 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Please also note his pinned tweet: Sources say White House staff members are beginning to talk openly about their increasing concerns that Trump shows signs of early dementia.

Earlier in the thread there was a mention of professional cretins Stone & Jones talking about a "bipartisan plot" to remove him via the 25th amendment due to dementia, I wouldn't be surprised if this really is the cowardly GOP plan to try to make this all go away and sweep the investigation under the rug.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:01 PM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


Oops, I forgot about the 25th Amendment. I just don't believe the Republicans will use it.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:01 PM on May 16, 2017


If no one from the judicial or legislative branches does anything, are we screwed?
The other branches *are* the checks there. This reminds me of Alex Wellerstein's post about people asking him what sort of checks there were against Trump using nuclear weapons erratically. November 8th *was* the check.

As the system is set up, Congress is supposed to catch the President in case things go too far. And if Congress is unwilling to act, then it's the job of the American people to vote them out in 2 years in the next election. And if that can't happen, then the system is reflecting people's wishes to some approximation.

There's no room to hope for loopholes or 13th-hour end-runs.
posted by CrystalDave at 5:01 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


They got nothing.

@sppeoples
Trump supporter Bill Bennett on Fox News: "If you looked at Mother Theresa under a microscope you would see germs and bacteria."

@NatashaBertrand
Ex Trump comms director Jason Miller spinning on CNN, says Comey's "little diary" about his meetings with Trump is "a little bit weird."

---

And they're fucked.

@DavidCornDC
Note to Spicer, McMaster, Conway, Priebus, and the rest: there are no longer any lifeboats on this ship.
posted by chris24 at 5:01 PM on May 16, 2017 [47 favorites]


I recommend this New Yorker article:

HOW TRUMP COULD GET FIRED
The Constitution offers two main paths for removing a President from office. How feasible are they?

posted by diogenes at 5:02 PM on May 16, 2017


Trey Gowdy wants to see the memo and wants to see Comey testify. “We’re a long ways from a conviction,” he says.

Could you please reframe this in terms of Benghazis? How many benghazis away are we?
posted by Going To Maine at 5:03 PM on May 16, 2017 [41 favorites]


Fear of the 25th may also be why he's taking like 3/4 of the executive branch with him on his international trip, to keep the cabinet from having an all hands meeting without him there.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:05 PM on May 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


So, what's the next Big Distraction gonna be? I'm hoping that these bozos aren't competent enough to actually have a terrorist attack cued up and ready to go if the fire gets too close, so my bet's on another drone strike/casual bombing raid in some far off land that "people don't really know much about".
Seems about time for something like that and it doubles as a reason for Dampnut to cancel his european vacation.

any guesses?
posted by OHenryPacey at 5:05 PM on May 16, 2017


Chaffetz Says He Wants To See Comey Memo: ‘I Have My Subpoena Pen Ready’

If he had any stones he would subpoena Trump's "tapes."
posted by kirkaracha at 5:05 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


I need to leave the office. I keep refreshing comments instead.
posted by azpenguin at 5:07 PM on May 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


So, what's the next Big Distraction gonna be? I'm hoping that these bozos aren't competent enough to actually have a terrorist attack cued up and ready to go if the fire gets too close, so my bet's on another drone strike/casual bombing raid in some far off land that "people don't really know much about".
I can't imagine that's going to do it. I am seriously bracing for anything.

I think it's possible that he'll release his tax returns, actually.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:07 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


This is some shit to stumble out of a three-pint baseball game into, I tell you what.
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:07 PM on May 16, 2017 [42 favorites]


And if Congress is unwilling to act, then it's the job of the American people to vote them out in 2 years in the next election.

My fear is that we won't get a next election; even if it's not an old school-style coup, I'm scared that my freedom to vote the way I want (or to vote at all as a black woman) will be somehow curtailed.

This is not looking good, America. I've done a lot of marching and calling, but each day brings fresh horrors. The leopard won't eat just my face if the 63 million get their way, though it'll definitely eat mine first.

OK, maybe second.
posted by droplet at 5:08 PM on May 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


Could you please reframe this in terms of Benghazis?

The SI definition of a Benghazi (abbreviation BZ) is One (1) Investigative Committee producing Zero (0) Convictions. A MegaBenghazi is 1,000,000 BZ, though increasing the number of Committees does not increase the number of Convictions above 0.

For an investigation which yields non-zero convictions, you need to use the Imperial unit, Watergate (WG). This is may even be a DecaWatergate (1 DWG = 10 WG) event.
posted by 0xFCAF at 5:09 PM on May 16, 2017 [52 favorites]


So, what's the next Big Distraction gonna be? I'm hoping that these bozos aren't competent enough to actually have a terrorist attack cued up and ready to go if the fire gets too close

They didn't even have messaging cued up for Comey's super obvious move to expose the obstruction of justice and they've had months, they're not big planners.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:09 PM on May 16, 2017 [23 favorites]


A MegaBenghazi is 1,000 BZ, though increasing the number of Committees does not increase the number of Convictions above 0.

That’s “MeGhazi”.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:12 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


My rep, Lacy Clay D MO-1, is retweeting a lot of impeachment things, but hasn't used the word himself.

Funfact: His father was one of the founding members of the Congressional Black Caucus. Nixon refused to meet with them. Guess who was first in line to call for that impeachment?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:14 PM on May 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


Major police and emergency vehicle action at the Islamic Center near DuPont. mass Ave shut down. Looks bad. Anyone know what's happening?
Sounds like there was violence between pro- and anti-Erdogan people at a protest at the Turkish ambassador's residence, which is nearby. One serious injury, which is bad, but nothing cataclysmic.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:14 PM on May 16, 2017


So, what's the next Big Distraction gonna be? I'm hoping that these bozos aren't competent enough to actually have a terrorist attack cued up and ready to go if the fire gets too close

It's more worrisome to ponder what Putin has lined up as contingencies.
posted by Doktor Zed at 5:14 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


That’s “MeGhazi”.

Apologies for the typo (edited); clearly 1,000 BZ is a Kiloghazi, but due to how Latin works, the 1,000,000 unit is still MegaBenghazi
posted by 0xFCAF at 5:14 PM on May 16, 2017


You know, if you resign before Friday you won’t even have to worry about poopin’ in a foreign toilet.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:15 PM on May 16, 2017 [40 favorites]


I'm sick with strep throat and I've been working from home today. I just woke up from a 2.5 hour nap to literally find an entire new aisle of the Official 2017 Dumpster Fire Showroom has been opened. The pace which with this shit is happening is just mindbending sometimes.

I'm seriously wondering what the end-game is here. Things just cannot simply continue like this for four years. It seems utterly untenable. But the longer Republican omerta keeps blocking anything from happening...

2017: Don't take a nap. You'll wake up through the looking glass.
posted by jammer at 5:17 PM on May 16, 2017 [28 favorites]


Erick Erickson (@EWErickson) of Red State:
Scoop: GOP polling over the weekend shifted against them in Montana and Georgia. National GOP starting to worry.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:17 PM on May 16, 2017 [50 favorites]


The thing is, I don't really see any way out of this for the Republicans. They can investigate Trump's fitness, find that he has some sort of dementia, and get rid of him, but then they have to admit that they lined up behind a guy who was so cognitively compromised that he couldn't do the job. I'm not sure how they could recover from that.

I'd love to be wrong about this, but "Lower taxes" and "Cracking down on illegals" and "Stopping the terrorists" and "Jesus" have saved their worthless asses pretty well since 1994 or so. Through a lot of "surely this" situations.
posted by Rykey at 5:20 PM on May 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


2017: Don't take a nap. You'll wake up through the looking glass.

Are you joking? EVERYBODY GO TAKE A NAP RIGHT NOW! Take several naps. Nap daily and set your alarm to rouse you from naptime just before Spicey Time. We can bring this home with our collective nap power, MetaFilter!
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:21 PM on May 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


White House called a press lid about a half hour ago, so there won't be anything coming from them tonight.

(I mean, unless Donald has his phone)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:23 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


The thing is, I don't really see any way out of this for the Republicans. They can investigate Trump's fitness, find that he has some sort of dementia, and get rid of him, but then they have to admit that they lined up behind a guy who was so cognitively compromised that he couldn't do the job. I'm not sure how they could recover from that.

Nobody has to line up behind any of that. They would, ostensibly, have to line up behind the idea that the President became unwell, but they’ve been good at disciplined messaging. Further, if the President leaves off and Pence takes over, he will surely see a hue surge in goodwill, for having removed a madman from the helm. Heck, he could probably leave all of Trump’s appointees in place and then demand to know what folks are complaining about.

What is interesting, I think, is that Fox and Breitbart seem to be taking a very hard line on “this whole thing is bogus”. It will be interesting to see how they shift their own tones to keep up with the times, especially if impeachment does become the popular option. I don’t think it will cost them their readership or viewership, mind you, but the story that they craft to explain their own changing coverage will be interesting.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:27 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Naps? Who has time to nap?

*throws aside empty jug of vodka, starts injecting Nazi methamphetamines*
posted by loquacious at 5:28 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


1,000 BZ is a Kiloghazi, but due to how Latin works, the 1,000,000 unit is still MegaBenghazi

Hopefully in the Clinton-45 timeline the Republicans are meddling in things beyond their ken and swiftly approaching Ω-BZ—Benghazi critical mass—and the barriers between realities will soon begin to break down, so that the moment Trump is impeached over here a fully-formed Clinton White House will pop into existence.
posted by XMLicious at 5:28 PM on May 16, 2017 [19 favorites]




Chaffetz had better be sending a very similar letter to the White House demanding any documents, records, files, and tapes they've got relevant to Comey, too.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:33 PM on May 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


Wow.
posted by Rykey at 5:33 PM on May 16, 2017


Chaffetz letter to FBI

"... provide, no later than May 24, 2017..."

Jesus Christ. But there will be seven other things to subpoena by then. They're going to be so far in Give Us This arrears that they'll never catch up at this rate.
posted by jammer at 5:33 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Here's how I see the situation: If the Feds are trying to look around your house because they think you're gun-running, but you actually have a meth lab... you still really need to convince them that there's no gun-running going on, because if they go looking for guns, they're gonna find the meth.

Russia's the guns, and we have no idea what the meth is, but it's definitely there or Trump wouldn't be so afraid of people going and looking.
posted by 0xFCAF at 5:33 PM on May 16, 2017 [30 favorites]


Chaffetz letter to FBI

If he plays his cards right, that man will be the new king of Fox news by the time he resigns from his seat. He’ll make Joe Scarborough’s neutrality pantomime on MSNBC look like a variety show, and Mike Huckabee will have to hand deliver him Chick-Fil-A for lunch and serve as his hype man.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:34 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Chaffetz letter to FBI

From the replies: “today is the day he truly became house oversight committee chair”
posted by XMLicious at 5:34 PM on May 16, 2017 [28 favorites]


Oh, and in seven years he’ll be President.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:35 PM on May 16, 2017


Has everyone resist-botted their reps today? Text "resist" to 504-09. Today I found out that you don't have to send a fax to all of your reps. You can target when you are asked if you want to send the message. Type "house" if you only want to send the fax to your house rep, "senate" if you want to send to both senators, and "senior" or "junior" to contact only your senior or junior senator.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:36 PM on May 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


I'm gonna have to go to the store and get stuff to make email cookies, aren't i?
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:36 PM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Has everyone resist-botted their reps today? Text "resist" to 504-09. Today I found out that you don't have to send a fax to all of your reps. You can target when you are asked if you want to send the message. Type “house” if you only want to send the fax to your house rep, “senate” if you want to send to both senators, and “senior” or “junior” to contact only your senior or junior senator.

Every single person representing me is a Democrat. The most that that will accomplish for me, alas, will be to use up some electricity.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:37 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm so confused. That letter makes it sound like Chaffetz is going to do some oversight.
posted by diogenes at 5:38 PM on May 16, 2017 [21 favorites]


I sent one to my Democratic house rep thanking him for being less of a spineless weasel than he usually is. Only I didn't phrase it quite that way.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:39 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


The thing is, I don't really see any way out of this for the Republicans.

Don't think that even Trump getting impeached solves shit. The US electorate has the memory of a goldfish. We elected Reagan after Nixon. Bush the Lesser after Reagan. Trump after Bush the Lesser.

If Trump goes this week, it will be damaging for midterms, and forgotten by 2020. Pence will have 3.5 years as an incumbent (and they're not impeaching Pence too, stop kidding yourselves).

And Trump showed the way, overt racist nationalism combined with overt populist economic appeals. He didn't deliver, but a smarter Trump with the Bannon play book could kill the entire establishment of both parties and rule as president for life. It would've been so simple, all Trump had to do was be not insane, and deliver on his promise to round up 'the other' while actually giviing out bread and circuses for his racist base. The Wall + universal health care. Voting restrictions + crackdowns on Wall Street. Giving handouts while consolidating his power. A competent demagogue backed by republicans desperate for tax cuts could've done it, and still can. He could've come so close to defining the entirety of the United States political history as brief experiment in liberal democracy ultimately ending in tyranny like the Roman Republic, only he turned on to be too goddamn incompetent to follow through.

Democrats still have no response. "Not Trump" wasn't enough before, it's not enough today, and it won't be enough if he goes. Republicans aren't going away, even after this, even if Trump goes down. And they've been given a shiny new ethnofacist/populist pathway to victory that's not going away either.

If/when he's out, the work starts again, it never stops starting.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:40 PM on May 16, 2017 [69 favorites]


As much as I want an independent investigation of some sort, I don't know how this situation is tenable. The 9/11 Commission took over a year and a half from establishment to its final report. We've had scandals from obstruction of justice to disclosing classified information to obstruction of justice again all in just one week. How can we setup an independent commission and be all "ok, they're going to look into whether the President colluded with Russia to get himself elected; everybody carry on as normal?" It's not like we're going to have a commission in the background and just ignore all this and go back to fighting to keep our health care.

How do we keep doing anything in the face of a President who keeps creating disasters for himself and the country and an intelligence community that has declared open war by calling out each one of them publicly?
posted by zachlipton at 5:41 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm sitting out on my deck watching my chickens in their nightly half-hour-long hamfisted, circuitous, squeaky, screamy attempt to all make it into the coop before sundown (there are two factions that hate each other, if that sounds at all familiar). I don't know who is the more ludicrous bunch of idiots, the White House or these fucking birds.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:43 PM on May 16, 2017 [39 favorites]


Irrespective of how you feel about the Israeli government*, the dump that Trump just took on the tenuous relationship between them and the USA government is extremely bad for us. Not just for the loss in intelligence, but because everyone in the world now realizes that if we're willing to disclose Israeli intelligence to the Russians literally all bets are off on everything else.


Moreso. Trump made enemies he really didn't want to have. If you're going to shit on someone, a deep cover Mossad agent in ISIL isn't the person to shit on.
posted by mikelieman at 5:43 PM on May 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


What is Mike Pence thinking right now?

um, that question is based upon a false premise.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:44 PM on May 16, 2017 [50 favorites]


You know the timing on this actually makes sense, if you consider what that interaction between Trump and Comey probably looked like.

Trump says, I need you to shut down this Russia thing. Leave Flynn alone, drop the investigation [or, whatever Trumpian protolanguage he actually used]. Comey says something non-committal at best, and Trump [being Trump] responds with something like, I'm sure you'll figure it out. You know what to do.

Comey goes home, writes his memo, rolls his eyes for a while and goes back to (slowly, carefully) moving the investigation forward. Trump goes back to his ice cream thinking, good, that's sorted then.

No obvious indications that Comey has defied him actually breach Trump's reality nullification field until May 9, when grand jury subpoenas were issued in pursuit of the Flynn investigation. Trump finds out and reacts exactly as you'd expect him to: he explodes. I told him what I wanted, he refused to do it, fuck that guy, I want him gone, &c. Nobody can talk him down and finally Jeff Sessions says look, give me an hour to build a paper trail at least. His deputy puts something together that's so slapdash it's literally a cut-and-paste from other sources. An hour later, Trump's thug is on the way to FBI HQ with a pink slip and a paper box.

tl;dr: Comey's firing was an immediate quid pro quo to what Trump saw as insubordination based on his 'request' that Comey shut the whole thing down, as documented in Comey's memo.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 5:44 PM on May 16, 2017 [145 favorites]


Don’t think that even Trump getting impeached solves shit. The US electorate has the memory of a goldfish. We elected Reagan after Nixon. Bush the Lesser after Reagan. Trump after Bush the Lesser.

An important point of order here:
  • We elected Reagan instead of Carter.
  • We elected W. Bush after Clinton, and instead of Gore.
  • We elected Trump after Obama, and instead of Clinton.
I’m not disagreeing with the idea that the party became more conservative, or that this will solve the problems posed by the party. But this isn’t direct line-of-succession stuff. These are Republican administrations running in opposition to Democratic administrations, not as some linear sequence of increasing madness.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:45 PM on May 16, 2017 [18 favorites]


Impeachment: A Handbook, by Charles Lund Black, may be of interest.
posted by MonkeyToes at 5:46 PM on May 16, 2017


Sorry schroedinger but that massive treason scandal is so two hours ago

This is what Toeffler wrote about in future shock, right? Welcome to the singularity.
posted by mikelieman at 5:46 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


These are Republican administrations running in opposition to Democratic administrations, not as some linear sequence of increasing madness.

Whynotboth.gif
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:47 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


IT'S HAPPENING!
posted by leotrotsky at 5:47 PM on May 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


These are Republican administrations running in opposition to Democratic administrations, not as some linear sequence of increasing madness.

Whynotboth.gif


So you’re saying the Democrats should finally nominate Zoidberg. Well, okay.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:48 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


McCain has reached extremely furrowed brow levels, per @timkmak:
McCain just said at a dinner honoring him that the Trump scandals have reached a "Watergate size and scale" -- wow
Earlier today, though, he made it clear that he can't and won't do anything, so yeah. Mavericky.
posted by zachlipton at 5:48 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


I’m not disagreeing with the idea that the party became more conservative, or that this will solve the problems posed by the party. But this isn’t direct line-of-succession stuff. These are Republican administrations running in opposition to Democratic administrations, not as some linear sequence of increasing madness.

I think the point is that even after Iran-Contra which should have seen Reagan placed inside of a fucking jail cell the rest of his natural born life, the American people looked at that shit and say "yeah... high treason... we're willing to give that shitshow's version 2.0 a shot".
posted by Talez at 5:49 PM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Earlier today, though, he made it clear that he can't and won't do anything, so yeah. Mavericky.

Going against his own party is so abhorrent to him that it's not even an option under consideration.
posted by Talez at 5:51 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


When the tab say (19) but changes to (54) when you click on it.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:52 PM on May 16, 2017 [74 favorites]


You know the timing on this actually makes sense, if you consider what that interaction between Trump and Comey probably looked like.

Exactly. It points to the most consistent theme in this administration: hubris coupled with incompetence. Trump doesn't understand how anything around him works, so just falls back on his "I'm the boss" schtick in everything he does. Christ, what an asshole.
posted by Brak at 5:53 PM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


If you want an easy explanation for the death of printed newspapers, imagine if you heard a quick blurb about this on the radio news and had to wait until tomorrow morning for any details?
posted by msalt at 5:53 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Josh Kraushaar (@HotlineJosh) of National Journal:
Dana Bash now reporting Congressional Rs debating between supporting independent prosecutor or independent commission. Major development.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:55 PM on May 16, 2017 [42 favorites]


Well, some Congressmen apparently aren't even at "concerned" levels yet:

TPM: " ... other Republican lawmakers said they were less concerned, some claiming not to have read the report, others dismissing the damning description of the Comey-Trump conversation as “fake news,” and a few defending Trump for intervening on Flynn’s behalf. “If the president was trying to protect a friend from unfair attacks, then I don’t think it’s a problem,” Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ), adding: “I would be shocked beyond words if the New York Times hasn’t distorted this in a profound way.”

There you have it folks - felony obstruction of justice is not a problem when you do it to help out your dear friend from unfair attacks. Time to pack it up and go home, yeah?
posted by RedOrGreen at 5:55 PM on May 16, 2017 [13 favorites]


If you want an easy explanation for the death of printed newspapers, imagine if you heard a quick blurb about this on the radio news and had to wait until tomorrow morning for any details?

Wouldn’t you pick up a copy of the late edition? Not that that’s much better, but still…
posted by Going To Maine at 5:56 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


If only there were some way to harness the GOP's collective cognitive dissonance as an alternative energy source.
posted by snortasprocket at 5:57 PM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


Can someone prep a new thread for tomorrow? This one's gonna hit 3000 before bedtime.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:57 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Like, clearly our plethora of sources in this modern age is helping us develop a coherent picture of the world.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:58 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


If only there were some way to harness the GOP's collective cognitive dissonance as an alternative energy source.

It involves magnets, copper wire, and the corpses of Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln.
posted by Talez at 5:58 PM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Ah, there it is: McCain also said he's against a special prosecutor. Glad he could express outrage and refuse to do anything about it all in one single speech.

Meanwhile, on Fox News, Tucker Carlson is busy with Clinton Foundation: Where Is It Now?
posted by zachlipton at 5:59 PM on May 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


Glad he could express outrage and refuse to do anything about it all in one single speech.

Practice makes perfect.
posted by diogenes at 6:01 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Wouldn’t you pick up a copy of the late edition? Not that that’s much better, but still…
I heard about Iraq's invasion of Kuwait on the radio. I was a chronic insomniac as a kid, and at some point I realized that listening to talk radio helped me sleep. They broke in to Larry King Live with news that Iraq had invaded Kuwait, and I woke my parents up to ask them if Iraq had nuclear weapons, which I remember my dad thinking was a perplexing question until the next day when he read the newspaper. You could also watch TV: we didn't have cable when I was a kid, but if you did there was 24 hour news cable, and if something really big happened they would break in to whatever was on. It had to be big, though: I don't think they would have interrupted the Cosby Show for this.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:01 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


Even if Trump isn't removed, his albatross weight is increasing by the minute. The key thing is to get as many Republican members of Congress and Republican Senators on the record defending Trump to the utmost, supporting him explicitly, commending his behavior and judgment, etc. The goal should be to line up so much ad material for 2018 that a wave becomes a tsunami. We need a coordinated effort to ask every Republican as many for-or-against-Trump questions on the record as we can, while they still think he's someone worth saving rather than cutting loose. Soon enough they'll be back to painting themselves as anti-Republican-establishment tea partiers with Trump as paragon of everything they oppose, but until then, we need to gather as much material as we can to clobber them with in 2018. It would be great to have somewhere to brainstorm the most uncomfortable wedge questions we can devise (though not here, there's enough going on here) -- questions to ask in town halls, on the phone, etc, in order to throw their responses back in their faces in ads, mailers and billboards in 2018.
posted by chortly at 6:05 PM on May 16, 2017 [16 favorites]


What makes me annoyed about the memo thing is that DC has one-party-consent for taping. HE COULD HAVE TAPES. Memos are more elegant I suppose, but this is not a more civilized age.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:05 PM on May 16, 2017


Even if Trump isn't removed, his albatross weight is increasing by the minute. The key thing is to get as many Republican members of Congress and Republican Senators on the record defending Trump to the utmost, supporting him explicitly, commending his behavior and judgment, etc. The goal should be to line up so much ad material for 2018 that a wave becomes a tsunami. We need a coordinated effort to ask every Republican as many for-or-against-Trump questions on the record as we can, while they still think he's someone worth saving rather than cutting loose. Soon enough they'll be back to painting themselves as anti-Republican-establishment tea partiers with Trump as paragon of everything they oppose, but until then, we need to gather as much material as we can to clobber them with in 2018. It would be great to have somewhere to brainstorm the most uncomfortable wedge questions we can devise (though not here, there's enough going on here) -- questions to ask in town halls, on the phone, etc, in order to throw their responses back in their faces in ads, mailers and billboards in 2018.

I remember a Presidential primary and campaign when everyone was very excited about this possibility.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:06 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


You know, if you resign before Friday you won’t even have to worry about poopin’ in a foreign toilet.
posted by Going To Maine at 8:15 PM on May 16 [−] Favorite added! [!]

Perfect! I found my postcard message for the White House.

Resist-bot is reaching out to me and telling me what Burr said. Good little resist-bot.

OK some premature musings about impeachment because I think this train is speeding up. We have never successfully kicked a President out of office by way of impeachment, Nixon resigned and the other two did not get found guilty in the Senate. So Trump could be the first-- after all he is the dirtiest by far. However, even IF we get 67 votes in the Senate and he is kicked out, is that where it ends? I guess I am looking for some serious punishment-- some monetary fines at the very least but I get the feeling Trump will walk away with all his ill-gotten gains and nothing serious will happen to him.

On the other hand what are the chances that the Republican-controlled congress votes to impeach and the Republican-controlled Senate votes to acquit? I know some people back in the earliest days of the Presidency opined that the Democratic Senators should vote to acquit in order to hang Trump around the neck of the Republicans but at this point I can't see that going over well with their supporters. DJT is doing a lot of damage to Americans in office and any chance to get rid of him better be taken or heads will roll.

The problem is if he doesn't get 67 votes to kick him out of office-- even if it is 66-- he will crow about and act like he is completely vindicated. And we will continue to carry on like we are doing now.

If you want an easy explanation for the death of printed newspapers, imagine if you heard a quick blurb about this on the radio news and had to wait until tomorrow morning for any details?

Interesting because I am having some of the same thoughts about the podcast situation. These days most of my podcasts are thoughtfully discussing yesterday's Trump-disasters which means I'm often left a little frustrated. I keep thinking you guys need to put out an EMERGENCY*******Podcast, but I say that every day now.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:07 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


We don't know that he doesn't have tapes.
posted by EarBucket at 6:07 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Tucker is probably dying for his show to end so he can tune into a news station to find out what's happening in the world.
posted by diogenes at 6:08 PM on May 16, 2017 [31 favorites]


If I were Comey I'd start with the memos, wait for Trump to lie about them, and then pull the tapes out of my pocket.
posted by EarBucket at 6:08 PM on May 16, 2017 [24 favorites]


Comey, Yates, and co. are giving Trump a crash course in what it's like when you can't force your employees to sign an NDA (non-disclosure agreement): they get to tell their side of the story after all.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:09 PM on May 16, 2017 [46 favorites]


These are Republican administrations running in opposition to Democratic administrations, not as some linear sequence of increasing madness.

It is though, because the Republican party moved steadily more rightwards, more unhinged, and more authoritarian during each of those intervening periods. It's been a steady decline into madness, broken only by rare Democratic wins and return to normalcy while the rightwing propoganda machine grew ever stronger even while out of power at the presidential level. Not to mention sustained gains at the lower levels the entire time.

Trump is a symptom. Republicans and rightwing/fascist propaganda are the underlying causes. Stopping Trump is like bringing down the fever while the patient is dying of sepsis, it's necessary, but not sufficient.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:10 PM on May 16, 2017 [33 favorites]


Ah, there it is: McCain also said he's against a special prosecutor. Glad he could express outrage and refuse to do anything about it all in one single speech.

This is secondhand on Twitter via an attendee at a dinner. I suspect that some nuance has been lost in translation. McCain has previously (and consistently) expressed support for an independent commission. There is a difference between a special prosecutor and an independent commission. I'm guessing that he was like, "No, I don't support a special prosecutor, because I support an independent commission."

Lots to keep track of here.
posted by compartment at 6:11 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


Quoting myself from the Election 2016 Grief and Coping MeTa:
I was all geeked up for the election night, and had picked out a particular bottle of beer to celebrate when the race was called (Victory Tart Ten -- get it? VICTORY? Yeah...)
Well, Messrs. Grassley, Goodlatte, and other Congressional Republicans who can be on the right side of history by doing something about the unhinged maniac occupying the White House *and* protect your own political careers in the process... I'm thirsty.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:11 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


The final twist, of course, will be when Wikileaks publishes all of the memos after the FSB sends them copies.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:12 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


I love how the whole "President lobbies the FBI director to jail journalists who report leaked info" is like just a minor side dish on the smorgasbord of horrendous shit in the NYT story.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:13 PM on May 16, 2017 [84 favorites]


The problem is if he doesn't get 67 votes to kick him out of office-- even if it is 66-- he will crow about and act like he is completely vindicated. And we will continue to carry on like we are doing now.

I think you're underestimating the multi-year blizzard of diarrhetic laundry the nation will have been subjected to by the time that comes to pass.

I don't even care if Trump isn't penalized a penny, as long as the country turns against him. "Your money's no good here, pal."

That is, if he survives the Russians calling in their chits once he has no power to offer them.
posted by rhizome at 6:14 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Remember that aside in an AP report a little while ago about how the Trump Transition mishandled classified information? It's back, with more reporting from Julie Pace. Trump transition handling of classified info raised concern
In the weeks before Trump took office, Obama administration officials were so concerned by the Trump transition team’s handling of classified documents that they moved swiftly to exert more control over the sensitive materials, according to two former U.S. officials.

The officials said transition officials removed classified materials from secure rooms and carried them between buildings in Washington without permission. Worried about keeping tabs on the highly sensitive material, the Obama administration officials set new limits on some classified information and explicitly barred Trump aides from viewing that material in their transition offices.
posted by zachlipton at 6:17 PM on May 16, 2017 [22 favorites]


There is a difference between a special prosecutor and an independent commission. I'm guessing that he was like, "No, I don't support a special prosecutor, because I support an independent commission."

Special Prosecutor is Ken Starr, which nobody wants to see again and which law (the S.P. law) was allowed to expire after he published his magnum opus because everybody figured out that it was bad that Starr had essentially free reign.

Here's Charlie Savage writing about these options back in a more innocent time (one week ago).
posted by rhizome at 6:18 PM on May 16, 2017


Chaffetz is demanding all FBI records of conversations now ... playing right into their hands. Golly, I wonder if they have any? What might they say?

Again - well played, Mr. Comey.
posted by Dashy at 6:18 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


If there is an impeachment investigation, the torrent of shit that gets uncovered will damn anyone who has ever been connected to Donald J Trump. This is why Republicans are avoiding it like the plague.
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:19 PM on May 16, 2017 [11 favorites]




So wasn't Chaffetz supposed to be out for 4-6 weeks?
posted by rhizome at 6:19 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


If there is an impeachment investigation, the torrent of shit that gets uncovered will damn anyone who has ever been connected to Donald J Trump.

Did that happen to all Nixon asociates? I’m asking here because I really don’t know, but I do remember that G. Gordon Liddy seemed to make out just fine and Henry Kissinger was at the White House the other day.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:21 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


> I remember a Presidential primary and campaign when everyone was very excited about this possibility.

Well, the strategy only works contingent upon the possibility that Trump is not deposed but is disgraced to the point that many Republicans eventually refuse to defend him. That is of course not guaranteed to happen, and indeed I still personally believe that the most likely outcome by 2018 is the status quo with Trump in place, albeit with an approval in the low-to-mid-30s. But the point about strategy is to plan for all contingencies, and unless you think there is a 0% chance that any Republicans will turn against him in the ensuing year, it's worth collecting the material to use against them on the contingency that he does keep spiraling down and becomes indefensible for some Republicans. Regarding the primary and 2016 election, Democrats actually did pretty well in the House and Senate for an election after a two-term Democratic president, and Trump probably played a role in that; in 2018, they will have huge tailwinds due to the usual first-midterm out-party effect, and many co-partisans of the president will be running away from both the president and the party itself, as happened in 1982, 1994, 2006, and 2010. Linking them to an unpopular president is always a good strategy, but if Trump continues to implode, it might be an especially successful one this time around, 2016 disappointments notwithstanding.
posted by chortly at 6:22 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


I implied that Trump might be so foolish that he didn't realize it would be a problem to ask Comey to end the Flynn investigation. But he apparently asked the Attorneys General to leave the room. Let's dispense with the notion that the President didn't know what he was doing.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:22 PM on May 16, 2017 [27 favorites]


So wasn't Chaffetz supposed to be out for 4-6 weeks?

IIRC he was miraculously healed by the prospect of taking healthcare away from the poor.
posted by Behemoth at 6:24 PM on May 16, 2017 [87 favorites]


If there is an impeachment investigation, the torrent of shit that gets uncovered will damn anyone who has ever been connected to Donald J Trump.

Did that happen to all Nixon asociates? I’m asking here because I really don’t know, but I do remember that G. Gordon Liddy seemed to make out just fine and Henry Kissinger was at the White House the other day.


I'm 1000% sure Trump is dirtier than Nixon. His cloud of corruption envelopes everyone around him. Nixon was a dirty bastard, but the administration wasn't a black hole of illegal activity.
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:24 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


So according to the NYT story, the Comey memos (or at least the one we know about) are unclassified. Does turning them over to Chaffetz's committee have any effect on that? Would Comey still be able to release other memos after they're turned over to the committee?
posted by sporkwort at 6:24 PM on May 16, 2017


So wasn't Chaffetz supposed to be out for 4-6 weeks?

The story I read said that he's recovering in Utah, which means he flew in special just to vote to take healthcare away from millions of people, then went back home.
posted by zachlipton at 6:25 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]



If you want an easy explanation for the death of printed newspapers, imagine if you heard a quick blurb about this on the radio news and had to wait until tomorrow morning for any details?


The biggest scoops of the Trump administration, including the last two, have come from good old fashioned newspapers. Too bad newspapers are too old fashioned to survive in this brave new world. For all of their faults, and the shitty stories they sometimes produce, I don't know what I'd do without them.
posted by sacre_bleu at 6:25 PM on May 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


Ann Wagner is rumored go be gunning for Claire McCaskill's senate seat in 2018. I really hope for me and all the other Tauruses and Missourians here that she continues to say stupid shit.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:26 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


You folks want another scandal? There's another garbage fire burning over here. Feds Subpoena Records for $3.5M Mystery Mortgage on Manafort’s Home
Federal investigators have subpoenaed records related to a $3.5 million mortgage that former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort took out on his Hamptons home just after leaving the campaign, according to a source familiar with the matter.

The mortgage document that explains how Manafort would pay back the loan was never filed with Suffolk County, New York — and Manafort's company never paid up to $36,000 in taxes that would be due on the loan.

In addition, despite telling NBC News previously that all his real estate transactions are transparent and include his name and signature, Manafort's name and signature do not appear on any of the loan documents that are publicly available. A Manafort spokesperson said the $3.5 million loan, which was taken out through a shell company, was repaid in December, but also said that paperwork showing the repayment was not filed until he was asked about the loan by NBC News.

New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman is also taking a "preliminary look" at Manafort's real estate transactions, according to a separate source. The Wall Street Journal reported Friday that the Justice Department has requested Manafort's banking records.
posted by zachlipton at 6:26 PM on May 16, 2017 [55 favorites]


So according to the NYT story, the Comey memos (or at least the one we know about) are unclassified. Does turning them over to Chaffetz's committee have any effect on that? Would Comey still be able to release other memos after they're turned over to the committee?

If I were Comey, I'd give the unclassified ones to Congress and every media outlet on the face of the earth simultaneously. But that's just me.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:27 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Fox News saying they can't get any Republicans to appear.‬
They just haven't inscribed their pentagram properly.
posted by Tabitha Someday at 6:27 PM on May 16, 2017 [80 favorites]


Just kind of wondering here just how much Putin would like not to have Trump blabbing away on the stand.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 6:28 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Also, with the increasing polarisation of political discourse, almost half of America thinks that Democrats are literally the Antichrist. All that the Republicans need to be is not the literal Antichrist. Those of them who are embarrassed about openly talking about politics in eschatological terms need that plus a rationalisation that survives the time it takes to say it. When “Obama did exactly the same things/even worse”, “but her emails/Vince Foster/Pizzagate” and “that is fake news” no longer cut it, the next step is “yes, Trump was a crook, but this is different/that's over” will, even if everybody still running has their hands dirty. (It's not like FoxNews or right-wing talk radio is going to mention it, so as far as >25% of the population goes, it's fake news.)
posted by acb at 6:28 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


The biggest scoops of the Trump administration, including the last two, have come from good old fashioned newspapers.

The biggest scoops have come from two newspapers (WaPo and NYT) and from CNN (rivaling either). WSJ is a distant third. Those three papers have essentially become wire services, joining AP and Reuters as sources who provide the actual content for everyone else (including legacy newspapers, websites and broadcast) through licensing agreements (or shirky quotes from).
posted by msalt at 6:30 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


> So according to the NYT story, the Comey memos (or at least the one we know about) are unclassified. Does turning them over to Chaffetz's committee have any effect on that? Would Comey still be able to release other memos after they're turned over to the committee?

If someone in Congress discovered that something in the memos was sensitive enough to cause harm to the country, they could be classified, but by the strange rules of classification, that would mean they were never unclassified -- just that Comey didn't mark them properly. Of course this assessment can be reviewed / overturned / ignored by the executive branch, from which all decisions on classification come. Any other memos that were released / leaked would be evaluated on a case-by-case basis as to whether they required classification. (This is the same sort of quantum uncertainty BS that plauged some of the #ButHerEmails -- emails that weren't marked classified, but should have been.)
posted by tonycpsu at 6:31 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


I do remember that G. Gordon Liddy seemed to make out just fine and Henry Kissinger was at the White House the other day.

You just gotta outlive your original voting bloc
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:31 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


"I’m asking here because I really don’t know, but I do remember that G. Gordon Liddy seemed to make out just fine and Henry Kissinger was at the White House the other day."

Fine? "Liddy was convicted of burglary, conspiracy and refusing to testify to the Senate committee investigating Watergate. He served nearly fifty-two months in federal prisons." -- Wikipedia

Of course, given how the right works, this ended up leading to a job in talk radio.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 6:32 PM on May 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


Did that happen to all Nixon asociates? I’m asking here because I really don’t know, but I do remember that G. Gordon Liddy seemed to make out just fine and Henry Kissinger was at the White House the other day.

I’m 1000% sure Trump is dirtier than Nixon. His cloud of corruption envelopes everyone around him. Nixon was a dirty bastard, but the administration wasn't a black hole of illegal activity.

That’s fine, but not actually the question. Besides, I’ve seen so many impossible things happen, the idea that the impossible thing of folks in this white house going on to have successful jobs is unsurprising to me. (Steve Bannon, for instance, is supremely rich. I could see him maybe going to jail for something. But I could also see him using the power of money to hire good lawyers, do minimal time, and then go start up another kooky scheme.)
posted by Going To Maine at 6:32 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


“I’m asking here because I really don’t know, but I do remember that G. Gordon Liddy seemed to make out just fine and Henry Kissinger was at the White House the other day.”

Fine? “Liddy was convicted of burglary, conspiracy and refusing to testify to the Senate committee investigating Watergate. He served nearly fifty-two months in federal prisons.” -- Wikipedia

Of course, given how the right works, this ended up leading to a job in talk radio.

Yep, he came out fine.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:33 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


40 some people served time in connection with Water Gate.

Nearly all of them went on to have post-prison careers in the Republican party.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:38 PM on May 16, 2017 [41 favorites]


(I mean, maybe four-and-a-quarter-years in prison and a successful radio career isn’t fine, and as someone who generally doesn’t like prison I’m not sure I can in good faith advocate for more time. But he came out of it with a successful career and a broad appeal to some parts of the world. Of course, you can’t legislate the tarnishing of reputation, especially not universally. But it doesn’t seem somehow concomitant with his actions. But then, Nixon’s fate was to get a Presidential library, do no jail time, and eventually start getting esteemed again. So what really are consequences anyway. Man, also, why are my hands so big? Have you ever just stared at your hands? Hands, man.)
posted by Going To Maine at 6:38 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


However, even IF we get 67 votes in the Senate and he is kicked out, is that where it ends? I guess I am looking for some serious punishment-- some monetary fines at the very least but I get the feeling Trump will walk away with all his ill-gotten gains and nothing serious will happen to him.

In that event, I would bet that they find a way to put him and people close to him in prison. He's too big a liability to leave wandering around shooting his mouth off, and they don't want close proxies like his (favored) kids mouthing off in his place.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:39 PM on May 16, 2017


If someone in Congress discovered that something in the memos was sensitive enough to cause harm to the country, they could be classified, but by the strange rules of classification, that would mean they were never unclassified -- just that Comey didn't mark them properly.

So basically, then, since the GOP choir is now demanding to see the Comey memos, Chaffetz and Ryan et al's most likely play here is to get their grubby hands on the documents, retroactively classify them, and then prosecute or at least harass and "investigate" the fuck out of Comey as they and Comey did to Hillary Clinton.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:40 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm 1000% sure Trump is dirtier than Nixon. His cloud of corruption envelopes everyone around him. Nixon was a dirty bastard, but the administration wasn't a black hole of illegal activity.

Oh by far. For all of his reputation of being a crook and Tricky Dicky he didn't do all that much. He orchestrated the break in at the DNC headquarters in order to assist his re-election campaign. Then he covered it up. And fired people in order to cover it up. It took 2 years to bring him down.

Look at all the shit that Trump has pulled in 120 days in office. A river of shit. His Impeachment charges may be quite long and complicated especially if they do find actual collusion with Russia. But even if they don't find a smoking gun on that there is so much else to choose from including all of those times he has broken the Emolument Clause.

The biggest scoops of the Trump administration, including the last two, have come from good old fashioned newspapers

They are old-fashioned names but the "papers" in question are hardly old fashioned. They would be if they waited to release their stories until the print editions hit the street. Now they just announce on twitter that something big is coming in a few minutes and then they link to the story on-line.

In 1974 I was in my Junior year in high school. I read the LA Times (and Doonesbury) every morning for the in-depth details and explanations about what was going on with Watergate but I followed the story by turning on the TV every day when I got home from school.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:41 PM on May 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


If there is an impeachment investigation, the torrent of shit that gets uncovered will damn anyone who has ever been connected to Donald J Trump. This is why Republicans are avoiding it like the plague.

They're also avoiding it like the plague because impeaching or 25th-ing him means that they have to lead the charge to remove the Savior of the White Race. Some magahats are gonna be pissed enough to primary them and a whole bunch of folks who crawled out of the woodwork to vote for Trump are gonna crawl back in, which isn't good for them either.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:41 PM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


This is amazing video of Tucker Carlson deflecting questions about Trump's tax return by ranting about the cleanliness of the men's room by the Don Pepi Pizza inside Penn Station. [real]
posted by zachlipton at 6:42 PM on May 16, 2017 [20 favorites]


Watergate memories: When we met, my spouse had a stair-master thing that belonged to John Dean (there is no interesting story, sorry).
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 6:42 PM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


Peepee Plaza?
posted by kirkaracha at 6:43 PM on May 16, 2017


they have to lead the charge to remove the Savior of the White Race.

Don’t bring Richard Spencer into this.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:43 PM on May 16, 2017


"I'm 1000% sure Trump is dirtier than Nixon. His cloud of corruption envelopes everyone around him. Nixon was a dirty bastard, but the administration wasn't a black hole of illegal activity."

Nixon was disgraceful in the complex way that being an ambitious, insecure politician who carries a grudge can be disgraceful.

Trump is disgraceful in the way that a very wealthy real estate developer with extensive ties to Russian mob money laundering, a history of sexual assault, several mail order foreign brides, an openly displayed incestuous desire for his older daughter, germophobia, narcissistic personality disorder, and owning a gold-plated toilet can be disgraceful.

So, I'm going to have to say that as much as I dislike Nixon, Trump inspires in me, yes, about 1000% more disgust.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 6:45 PM on May 16, 2017 [47 favorites]


Pepe Plaza?
posted by entropicamericana at 6:46 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


msalt: "The biggest scoops have come from two newspapers (WaPo and NYT)"

This reminds me of something I saw earlier today (which feels like 100 years ago) on Twitter. Someone tweeted something like that it'd be a hell of a thing if Trump were the second president that the WaPo brought down. Then, someone replied to that tweet with a bunch of NYT reporter @-names and a funny gif of a cat typing furiously on a laptop keyboard (possibly the "time for shitposting" cat) with the caption "NYT newsroom right now".

The point is this: I'm under the impression that the NYT as an institution still has a bit of sore feelings for not being the ones to break Watergate. If they sense blood in the water (and really at this point I think that a Pleistocene-epoch insect trapped in amber can sense the blood in the water), there is no chance they're going to just let the WaPo get all the glory again. The race is on.
posted by mhum at 6:47 PM on May 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


Someone should tell the NYT editorial page.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:49 PM on May 16, 2017 [47 favorites]


While I would prefer that Trump et al immediately burn in hell, my main concern is more about protecting the people they are hurting than punishing the psychopaths. If we can get them permanently out of office, that will go a long way to protecting the world from a whole host of powerful evil-doers. Yeah, the Watergate folks all got short sentences if any, and many later became minor right-wing personalities, but the ex-Nixon administration was hamstrung after his resignation and easily defeated by Carter; and as for Iran-Contra, while they technically got away with it, Reagan lost 15 approval points, was himself hamstrung for the remainder of his term, and Republicans only just managed to bounce back at the very end enough to allow Bush Sr. to defeat a very weak Democrat. The perpetrators themselves are, unfortunately, unlikely to ever be really harmed, but their cause can and has been significantly set back by these controversies. We can do the same for an entire generation of Republicans if we play our cards right.
posted by chortly at 6:52 PM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Man, theyre going to be leading with Tehran mother of all both-sides op-eds tomorrow aren't they? It's going to have to be huge in response to this.
posted by Artw at 6:53 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


A senior official in the Trump administration, who previously worked on the president’s campaign, offered a candid and brief assessment of the fallout from that string of bad press: “I don’t see how Trump isn’t completely fucked.”

Please, please tell me this came from Pence.


Did Pence work on the campaign? He struck me as more of a distant surrogate. First guy I thought of when I read this was Bannon.
posted by EatTheWeek at 6:55 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Man, theyre going to be leading with Tehran mother of all both-sides op-eds tomorrow aren't they? It's going to have to be huge in response to this.

'Trump literally admitted to obstruction of justice, fired the FBI director investigating him, and then admitted to even more obstruction of justice, and somehow also committed petty(?) treason and burned basically all of our intelligence sharing arrangements in between all the obstruction, but Hilary started a super PAC, so, both sides!'
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:59 PM on May 16, 2017 [23 favorites]


Oh how I loathe Tucker Carlson.
posted by vverse23 at 6:59 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


In part because I am interested in history in general, in part because the Alger Hiss case has always fascinated me, I read a lengthy, well-researched biography of Whitaker Chambers. The book had a conservative slant and came down on the side of Hiss's guilt, but there were several enlightening chapters of history along the way.

One is that the Republican party went along with the anti-Communism craze when it attacked the Democrats (Truman, Stevenson and Acheson) but pulled the plug on McCarthy when McCarthy continued to attack after the Republicans had power AND attacked the Army. The Army-McCarthy hearings brought McCarthy down.

Trump is the same here. The Republicans will pick a time to go against him and then play hero (aided by the right-wing press who has been chomping at the bit to not have to support such a loser as Trump).
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:00 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


sometimes i just like to watch a minute or so of tucker carlson to see how low he was fallen since he tangled with jon stewart
posted by murphy slaw at 7:02 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


The current lead article on the Breitbart home page, by Charlie Spiering: “More Leaks: James Comey Memo Says Trump Tried to Shut Down Flynn Investigation”

It’s a brief story, but that would certainly seem to be an indicator.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:02 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


sometimes i just like to watch a minute or so of tucker carlson to see how low he was fallen since he tangled with jon stewart

All the way into a prime-time slot.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:03 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


as far as Tucker Carlson has fallen, "Cable News", led by the FauxNews network, has fallen farther.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:05 PM on May 16, 2017


Every now and then Brietbart seems to stick a toe into turning on Trump, just to see what happens.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:06 PM on May 16, 2017


“More Leaks: James Comey Memo Says Trump Tried to Shut Down Flynn Investigation"

I don't click on Breitbart, but is this anything different than the Times reported earlier this afternoon?
posted by Miko at 7:08 PM on May 16, 2017


Meanwhile, per Towleroad, Alex Jones is leading with the hard-hitting story that “H.R. McMaster is a Gay ‘Leather Daddy’ Who Could ‘Suck a Golf Ball Through a Garden Hose’”
posted by Going To Maine at 7:08 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]






Please, please tell me this came from Pence.

If it were Pence, it would be "Mother, I don’t see how Trump isn’t completely fucked."

First guy I thought of when I read this was Bannon.

I have no idea who this might be and I'm sure that there are aides whose names I don't even know, but for some reason the first name that came to my mind was Hope Hicks.

Wouldn't that be a boot in the ass?
posted by octobersurprise at 7:10 PM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


“More Leaks: James Comey Memo Says Trump Tried to Shut Down Flynn Investigation”

I don’t click on Breitbart, but is this anything different than the Times reported earlier this afternoon?

It isn’t, no, but the fact that it’s the front-page story, a-number-one story (albeit only maybe two paragraphs long) and seems to be neutral in tone is the key element.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:10 PM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


heres a plot of the number of tweets per day containing "trump" and "impeach"

Bloomberg terminals do that now? Neat.
posted by jammer at 7:11 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Oh how I loathe Tucker Carlson.

He makes you wonder why it is merely loathsome and not loathutterly.
posted by srboisvert at 7:18 PM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


On the good news front, Larry Krasner just won the Philadelphia District Attorney Democratic Primary. He's a strong progressive (from my limited understanding of the race anyway) with a long record as a civil rights attorney and former public defender, running on an insurgent criminal justice reform campaign against six other Democrats.
posted by zachlipton at 7:18 PM on May 16, 2017 [36 favorites]


Bloomberg terminals are like emacs; they do everything.

They can even send flowers to your wife on her birthday you missed because you were sitting at the Bloomberg terminal.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:19 PM on May 16, 2017 [21 favorites]


For all of his reputation of being a crook and Tricky Dicky he didn't do all that much.

As an official old, I can't agree with that. Nixon was known as dirty all the way back to his high school debate days. He was involved in McCarthyist Commie bashing, and his famous Checkers speech was a cheesy save to cover up bribery when he was Eisenhower's VP in the 1950s.

He ran for president in 1968 as -- I kid you not -- an antiwar candidate, even while personally sabotaging LBJ's Vietnam peace talks. After dragging out the war for years, he led he illegal bombing of Cambodia among many war crimes. The coup against Allende, at the direction of a major corporation (ITT). Support for the Shah of Iran and his torture. Etc.

Then you have the creation of the Southern Strategy among many racist actions, culminating in the FBI murder of Black Panthers. Some small change like taking bribes from milk producers. A break-in of Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office as well as Watergate. Etc. Etc.

I'm not sure there's any point in a "who is shittier?" contest, but please don't whitewash Nixon. Much better to read "Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail" (again, if need be).
posted by msalt at 7:22 PM on May 16, 2017 [78 favorites]


Our local elections were kind of a mixed bag today (and super super low turnout), but at least a couple small municipalities elected or re-elected progressive female mayors. (And one city council district really shat the bed in that department.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:26 PM on May 16, 2017


John Kasich on CNN saying that during the debates he had grave concerns that Donald Trump wouldn't be capable of being President. Why is why he openly endorsed Clinton and swung the election to her. Oh wait he actually wrote in John McCain haha fuck that guy
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:29 PM on May 16, 2017 [62 favorites]


Lawrence O'Donnell and his panelists just advised White House staff members to lawyer up. Yeah, that's pretty typical for 3 months into a Presidential administration.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:30 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


I too am an old, and Nixon was dirty, dirty bastard. Granted his treason was trickier, but he was still a treasonous fuck who should have spent his final days in a concrete box feeding the cockroaches that were his only friends. I have inherited the flags that draped the coffins of the men in my family who died because of Nixon.

I'd like it very much if we could get rid of our current treasonous fuck before any of have to go through having that flag handed to us again.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:31 PM on May 16, 2017 [44 favorites]


The video of what went down at the Turkish Ambassador's residence is insane. Like, this should be a major scandal in its own right. This is now the second time in roughly a year that apparent Turkish security officials have assaulted protesters in Washington, and nobody cares.
posted by zachlipton at 7:31 PM on May 16, 2017 [99 favorites]


John Kasich on CNN saying that during the debates he had grave concerns that Donald Trump wouldn't be capable of being President. Why is why he openly endorsed Clinton and swung the election to her. Oh wait he actually wrote in John McCain haha fuck that guy

Come on. If the choice were between Jill Stein and Mitt Romney I'd sure as hell be conflicted about pulling the lever for Romney. I'd probably write in Adlai Stevenson or some other stupid shit.
posted by Talez at 7:31 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


John Kasich on CNN saying that during the debates he had grave concerns that Donald Trump wouldn't be capable of being President. Why is why he openly endorsed Clinton and swung the election to her. Oh wait he actually wrote in John McCain haha fuck that guy

Come on. If the choice were between Jill Stein and Mitt Romney I'd sure as hell be conflicted about pulling the lever for Romney.

I would have more sympathy for this position if France hadn’t shown us (twice!) how it’s supposed to be done.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:33 PM on May 16, 2017 [21 favorites]


Nixon only seems kinda anodyne because he only did "everything you could do before there were computers." He probably used some computers, too, but we're in another world from there right now.
posted by rhizome at 7:34 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


The video of what went down at the Turkish Ambassador's residence is insane.
Good lord.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:36 PM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]




Question: What kind of impact would a Trump impeachment, or even an investigation, have on the Russian economy? Like if Trump is into the Russians for a billion dollars or more, and his only real value (the Trump brand) is devalued as a result, does this create problems of significance for Russia?
posted by Autumnheart at 7:39 PM on May 16, 2017


To be clear, this live town hall with Sanders and Kasich was supposed to be a freewheeling, friendly discussion on a variety of topics facing the American people but at the last minute, it sounds like, CNN asked them to change the event to be a conversation on one topic only: the crisis in the White House.

It's bizarre. You don't usually get to see senior politicians reeling in real time.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:42 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


[Data point from a person who lives in DC: That Turkish Embassy video is indeed insane. That kind of thing Does. Not. Happen. in front of an embassy. In any other circumstance, this would be a major diplomatic incident.]
posted by schmod at 7:42 PM on May 16, 2017 [44 favorites]


Ok, I'm both overwhelmed in trying to keep up with things and also not trying to get my hopes up too much, so I turn to y'all for more speculation/explanation: if impeachment proceedings FINALLY do begin, does Pence absolutely get taken out, too? What's the likelihood that we end up stuck with President Pence if this all goes down in the next few weeks?
posted by TwoStride at 7:43 PM on May 16, 2017


Sen. Brian Schatz says what needs to be repeated and repeated by everyone everywhere until the shameful GOP cannot escape it anywhere.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:44 PM on May 16, 2017 [22 favorites]


I hesitate to speculate, but I can't imagine that any of the other Trump-is-no-longer-President-next-month scenarios are more likely than President Pence.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:45 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


if impeachment proceedings FINALLY do begin, does Pence absolutely get taken out, too?
Nope. Almost definitely not. (And I think that Trump is more likely to get Article 25-ed than impeached.) But Pence doesn't have the same fanbase that Trump does, and he'd be a deeply weakened president. Plus he's not going to accidentally tweet the nuclear codes. It's not great, but it's better than what we have now.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:46 PM on May 16, 2017 [21 favorites]


(If you want to lobby your congresspeople about something, I recommend lobbying for some kind of Amendment to deal with elections that get corrupted by foreign powers.)
posted by Going To Maine at 7:48 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump administration was more worried about upsetting Russia than optics after the Comey firing.

I am dying to know what kompromat there is. I have no reason to believe that every rumor I've read over the last several months isn't true. Pee tape? Check. Rosneft? All 19.5%. Massive tax evasion? To the tune of billions. Guy shot on Fifth Ave? Some "electricians" will discover a corpse in the foundation of a Trump hotel. They are bending over backwards for Russia. It's gonna be treason.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 7:50 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


To follow up on what ArbitraryAndCapricious said: I have a coworker who keeps thinking we're going to get some kind of "do-over" on the election. Not only is there no way to prove the Russians (even with collusion from the Trump campaign) *decisively* tipped the election, there's simply no provision for a do-over in our constitution. The best we can hope for at the moment is someone who won't blow up the damn planet.
posted by uosuaq at 7:50 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Pee tape? Check.

The best argument against the pee tape, perhaps, is that the white house unequivocally denied its existence. That isn’t something they’ve been doing about anything else lately.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:53 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I am 1000% a pee tape truther but I don't think we're ever gong to see it or get confirmation of its existence. Alas. Putin already has everything his little heart desired, and then some.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:57 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


is that the white house unequivocally denied its existence

unfortunately, a human is born with a finite amount of ability to unequivocally deny the existence of things that do in fact exist, and the staff has mostly used theirs all up
posted by localhuman at 7:57 PM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


The best argument against the pee tape, perhaps, is that the white house unequivocally denied its existence.

So it was a poop tape all along...
posted by Behemoth at 7:58 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


The best argument against the pee tape, perhaps, is that the white house unequivocally denied its existence.

I think the best argument against the pee tape was Victoria Coren Mitchell (YT, start at 24:15). And she has a point, Trump wouldn't have anyone pee on him. I think it's a tape of him in the specified Presidential room at the hotel, with hookers that pee all over the bed. Nothing more. He doesn't have the creativity to be kinky.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 8:01 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


My current fanfiction daydream: Jim Comey saunters into the Senate to testify before the Judiciary Committee. And pulls out a fucking huge stack of still-sealed certified letters he sent himself, each containing a copy of a memo he wrote and mailed on the same day as the event it memorializes. And beside him sits the mail carrier who delivered each one, holding their little handheld certified mail signature computer dealie.

And they're both wearing giant shit-eating grins and eating ice cream cones because righteous badasses don't need no fucking bowls.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:04 PM on May 16, 2017 [30 favorites]


I think it's a tape of him in the specified Presidential room at the hotel, with hookers that pee all over the bed.

That's what the dossier describes, but people hear "pee tape" and think it's actually something interesting instead of a third-grader's idea of a prank.
posted by stopgap at 8:04 PM on May 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


Sen. Brian Schatz says what needs to be repeated and repeated by everyone everywhere until the shameful GOP cannot escape it anywhere.

That is amazingly well stated by the Senator. Bravo.

It lines up with something that's been on my mind recently. It's time we on the left vocally and actively reclaimed "patriotism". It's ground that we've fully ceded to the other side in an attempt to shrug off the concomitant sins of nationalism, jingoism, and xenophobia. But, damn it, plenty of us still love this country, and want it actually be what it says it is. I didn't realize just how much I loved this country until I saw it in the mortal peril it's currently in.

And we are the ones who are being true patriots. The Republican party has disgraced itself with its willingness to cover for innumerable acts that are opposed to the rule of law and our founding principles. They can not, they must not, be allowed that space any more, and we need to shake off queasiness about the topic.

I recently took a step in this direction by replacing the space on my car that had a Hillary window decal with one that has an American flag and says "PRO-AMERICA. ANTI-TRUMP." Can't get much more direct than that message.

Basically, we need to take outspoken love of country back from these irredeemable, traitorous assholes.

Make patriotism great again.
posted by jammer at 8:08 PM on May 16, 2017 [56 favorites]


Its the celebrity sex tape least likely to be jacked off to.
posted by Artw at 8:10 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Its the celebrity sex tape least likely to be jacked off to.

Speak for yourself.
posted by some loser at 8:11 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Major police and emergency vehicle action at the Islamic Center near DuPont. mass Ave shut down. Looks bad. Anyone know what's happening?

Sounds like there was violence between pro- and anti-Erdogan people at a protest at the Turkish ambassador's residence, which is nearby. One serious injury, which is bad, but nothing cataclysmic.


You guys need to watch the video footage. I would not brush this off as "nothing cataclysmic."
posted by nightrecordings at 8:11 PM on May 16, 2017 [27 favorites]


Yeah that footage is horrifying.
posted by suelac at 8:12 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Team Trump responds. Fundraising message. Subject line: SABOTAGE
posted by scalefree at 8:13 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Mike Pence is a Republican who was the governor of a state. Donald Trump is a man incapable of ideological coherence who was a con-artist and serial sexual abuser and racist demagogue and who 48% of the American public wanted impeached even before today's events, and who has a surreal and highly suspicious passion for supporting brutal dictators. Wresting control of the military, intelligence apparatus, Departments of Justice and State, and the legislative veto from Donald Trump is both a moral and practical imperative for human society.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:13 PM on May 16, 2017 [20 favorites]


"Political turmoil rocked the nation’s capital again on Tuesday evening as politicians from both parties responded to President Trump’s — you know what, never mind. This is a story about ducks." [real]

(And yes, I know the general gist of the duck ramp story was discussed upthread, but I thought the NYT lede was worth highlighting.)
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:16 PM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Subject line: SABOTAGE

I can't stand it, I know he planned it, but I'm-a set it straight: this Watergate.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:16 PM on May 16, 2017 [33 favorites]


McCain's spokesperson tries to walk back the Watergate comparison. Reporters who were in the room aren't having it.
posted by zachlipton at 8:17 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


from the "day's not over" dept,:

AP: Trump transition handling of classified info raised concern
The officials said transition officials removed classified materials from secure rooms and carried them between buildings in Washington without permission. Worried about keeping tabs on the highly sensitive material, the Obama administration officials set new limits on some classified information and explicitly barred Trump aides from viewing that material in their transition offices.

The Associated Press previously reported on Obama officials’ concerns about the transition team’s handling of classified material as the Trump team prepared to take the reins of government. The new details about their concerns come amid mounting questions about whether Trump himself has been careless with the nation’s secrets.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:17 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Yeah that footage is horrifying.

It's clearly nothing compared to what they must be dealing with in Turkey - jesus christ - but it freaks me out. How was that even able to get to the point that it did? What the fuck is going on? Trump has Erdogan over to visit and invites all the goons, too? Gives them free reign to run amok all over the place and punch protesters? (Most if not all of whom were Kurdish, FYI) Fuck Erdogan and FUCK TRUMP.

Sorry, I just had to get that one out of my system. I've been holding it in all day.
posted by nightrecordings at 8:20 PM on May 16, 2017 [18 favorites]


You guys need to watch the video footage. I would not brush this off as "nothing cataclysmic."

Reminder: these are the people the former US national security director has been employed by for at least the last several months.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:20 PM on May 16, 2017 [31 favorites]


"What's the likelihood that we end up stuck with President Pence if this all goes down in the next few weeks?"

Not in the next few weeks -- I agree that impeachment and conviction (possible, only marginally likely barring Trump continuing to dig himself into a hole) or resignation (less likely, I think, even though Trump doesn't actually like being President but his narcissism wouldn't ever let him relinquish the spotlight and, also, he'd want to be in a position to retaliate) will be a long process -- but, if it does happen, even with Pence being implicated in some respects, it won't be remotely enough to impeach Pence and he'll become President.

Personally, I think that the sooner this happens, the better for the US in terms of maintaining its stability and avoiding some kind of nuclear recklessness (who knows what Trump is capable of?), but at the price of it also being the best thing (or least worst) for the Republicans. But they'll be badly damaged by it. What they really want is for it to somehow go away long enough for them to reach their legislative goals, which is wishful thinking to the point of delusion. But they've got the sunk costs fallacy problem and and the fear of being primaried by pissed-off Trump voters. So my money is on the Republicans doing too little, too late, to salvage any of the midterm chances and perhaps even too little, too late, to avoid a disintegration of the Republican Party. (I continue to think that Trump will, one way or another, cause the GOP to split into at least two factions.)

So I find myself very confused and perhaps morally suspect in my thinking about this. My gut wants Trump to remain President for his entire term, with just one week after another like this one. I want Trump to absolutely destroy the Republican Party and guarantee Democratic Party control of Congress and the White House and perhaps the destruction of the GOP as we know it, and I the longer he's in office, the more this will be the case.

But the risk of this is enormous -- he could do terrible damage to the US during his term and it's sort of immoral to want someone to commit a bunch of destructive and hurtful acts for an extended period of time simply to discredit who we believe to be the long-term enemy. That discounts human suffering in the here-and-now and is a toxic way of thinking. Even so, I want so much to see Trump just utterly destroy the Republican Party as he refuses to let go and insists on taking down each of his putative allies in sequential fits of unreasonable rage.

I know better, though. He needs to be out of office ASAP. That's my brain. My heart insists, though, that he keep wielding this flamethrower, often against his own party (inadvertently or deliberately) for as long as possible.

I'm just feeling very ambivalent these days. But I am also feeling a lot of schadenfreude, so that makes up for the confusion of ambivalence.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:21 PM on May 16, 2017 [37 favorites]


They have to be thinking that invoking the 25th would be much easier than an impeachment trial, with all the hassle of memos and tapes and witnesses testifying under oath. Congress doesn't have to lift a finger, everyone gets to make Sad Serious Faces on TV and talk about how sad it is that they have to remove him, and they can hope that the whole thing blows over soon. Pence takes most of the heat from the base, but he gets to be president.
posted by EarBucket at 8:26 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


The one good thing about this chaos in the short term is that every day like this is a day when legislation is not happening and the political capital to move future legislation is chipped away.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:26 PM on May 16, 2017 [44 favorites]


I'm on Team Ivan Fyodorovich's Conflicted Feelings, too.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:27 PM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


Sorry schroedinger but that massive treason scandal is so two hours ago
posted by theodolite at 17:52 on May 16


I took a nap and woke up and we're at Penn Station bathrooms and assaults on protesters so I'm not even going to bother trying any more
posted by Anonymous at 8:28 PM on May 16, 2017


Rep. Curbelo (R-FL) on CNN sounding very grave and saying "obstruction of justice is traditionally an impeachable offense".
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:29 PM on May 16, 2017 [18 favorites]


I think for the sake of the rest of the world at least (who didn't have any say in this, unlike the 46% of voters who chose Trump) there is no question that Pence will be better and that the sooner Trump could be replaced by Pence the better.

I understand the argument some make that Trump is more incompetent and that it could be a good thing for _Americans_ (which I'm not at all convinced of, given that a post-impeachment GOP/Pence would also be severely weakened), but there's no question I think that Pence will be less dangerous to the outside world. Having Trump in charge of foreign policy and the military is madness, those are two areas where incompetence absolutely hurts everyone in the world (unlike the "promoting legislation" aspect, but the President is less all-powerful there than he is in the foreign policy and military roles).

So I'm not very conflicted. Pence would be a horrible President, but there's no question in my mind that he would be better than Trump.
posted by thefoxgod at 8:29 PM on May 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


How was that even able to get to the point that it did? What the fuck is going on? Trump has Erdogan over to visit and invites all the goons, too? Gives them free reign to run amok all over the place and punch protesters?

Yeah, I think under any previous administration that this, which looks to me an awful lot like a state-sponsored riot emerging from an embassy? would result in mass personing-non-grata did I do that right? of the embassy staff -- but they know (or think they know, which amounts to about the same thing) that this administration isn't unduly concerned for the free speech of anti-authoritarian protesters.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:30 PM on May 16, 2017 [11 favorites]


The video of what went down at the Turkish Ambassador's residence is insane.

That is just unfucking real. Will anything be done about that?? Do the attackers have diplomatic immunity? They need to be expelled from the fucking country.


They were also armed. Several holstered handguns visible on the suited men attacking the protesters.
posted by srboisvert at 8:30 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Tony Schwartz in the Washington Post: I wrote ‘The Art of the Deal’ with Trump. His self-sabotage is rooted in his past.

Reading that I had a moment of sympathy for Trump, he is a broken and empty person trying to satisfy his bottomless need for acceptance, our Bojack Horsepresident without the benefits of drugs, alcohol, and nihilism. I thought, what a sad and pitiful man, but a second later I decided, nah, fuck that guy.
posted by peeedro at 8:30 PM on May 16, 2017 [27 favorites]


So it was a poop tape all along...

He's a home poop taper
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:31 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


Pence would do some terrible, terrible shit but I don't think he start a nuclear war or fire nuclear weapons.

My win condition for a Trump presidency is "no nukes fired" and I think with Pence that bar could be raised a little.

A little.
posted by Tevin at 8:34 PM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


Yeah, those animals at the Embassy were kicking and stomping a woman who was on the ground, among other things. They need to be removed from the country.
posted by loquacious at 8:34 PM on May 16, 2017 [16 favorites]




So my money is on the Republicans doing too little, too late, to salvage any of the midterm chances and perhaps even too little, too late, to avoid a disintegration of the Republican Party. (I continue to think that Trump will, one way or another, cause the GOP to split into at least two factions.)

Until the left learns to accept a primary and then show up in lockstep to elections the GOP will never die. Federal GOP may wilt but it won't stop GOP legislatures being terrible and reelected (I'm looking at you OK).
posted by Talez at 8:35 PM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


Pence would be a horrible President, but there's no question in my mind that he would be better than Trump.

I think the open question in these scenarios is how much Pence has internalized the "lesson" of Trump and the Trump campaign, how many of the Trump/Bannon/Sessions/Kobach/Pruitt monsters he keeps on, and how much Pence would continue to run a Breitbart/FOX/hateradio style presidency. Yes, he's marginally less insane. But he's signed on to and covered for every last bit of every Trump scandal, comes from a hate radio back ground, is fully an end-times Christian dominionist, and is utterly ruled by the daily hate radio/FOX news cycle just like Trump is, he's just more polished at it, and he's more of a true believer than a naked opportunist.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:36 PM on May 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


I've been watching a betting market on and off which is predicting which year Trump will exit office. For 2017, it's been drifting around 5:1 - 6:1 for most of the year, but has now dropped to 3.3:1.

It's a small market, so this is just the opinions of a few people, but I find it heartening.
posted by solarion at 8:36 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


This is something I've been thinking about, Ivan Fyodorovich.

Impeachment and removal right now would ensure that someone equally as evil if not worse in essence but much more palatable in appearance and conduct would rise to power. This could calm things down enough to the point where Republicans can return to governing and implementing their horrible agenda successfully. In turn this could take the wind out of the sails of a possible landslide midterm election leaving the country under the control of the GOP.

A White House careening out of control in permanent 24/7 damage control mode could leave the GOP paddling to not get sucked under by the ferret-headed maelstrom and thus unable to enact most of their inhumane agenda at all. It would also likely feed into the growing energy that could lead to landslide midterms allowing Democrats to regain some control over government.

I'm temped to say we might be better off with the second option if we can get through the next year and a half relatively unscathed before getting the toddler-in-chief impeached. But it's a huge if. He could still trigger WWIII by accident, out of sheer vindictiveness or to feed his ego. There's already massive harm being done to innocent people in this country. It's hard to say which option would ultimately result in the lesser amount of harm done. But giving them the chance to settle into relative normalcy (and after Trump that will be a low, low bar) also seems extremely dangerous.

Really not sure what's best.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 8:39 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


The officials said transition officials removed classified materials from secure rooms and carried them between buildings in Washington without permission.

Given the clowns in charge released the private number of a senior official just the other day by walking around with it on a helpfully-labeled sticky note I think they were right to worry.
posted by winna at 8:39 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


It's a small market, so this is just the opinions of a few people, but I find it heartening.

I don't, like, think that the markets are god or that the DJIA is necessarily a good representation of the broader economy experienced by average people, but I do think it will be interesting to see tomorrow morning whether the political / governance crisis is finally starting to spook Wall Street.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:39 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Yeah, I think under any previous administration that this, which looks to me an awful lot like a state-sponsored riot emerging from an embassy? would result in mass personing-non-grata did I do that right? of the embassy staff -- but they know (or think they know, which amounts to about the same thing) that this administration isn't unduly concerned for the free speech of anti-authoritarian protesters.

My thoughts exactly. Which is fucking terrifying beyond belief. I have been retweeting that video at various media Twitter accounts all evening asking why they aren't covering this.
posted by nightrecordings at 8:40 PM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


They have to be thinking that invoking the 25th would be much easier than an impeachment trial, with all the hassle of memos and tapes and witnesses testifying under oath. Congress doesn't have to lift a finger, everyone gets to make Sad Serious Faces on TV and talk about how sad it is that they have to remove him, and they can hope that the whole thing blows over soon. Pence takes most of the heat from the base, but he gets to be president.

The cherry on top for the GOP being that every time the press or the Democrats so much as hint at the myriad sins of Trump and the GOP's complicity in them, out comes the "shame on you for continuing to go after this very ill man, it's so tragic, please let him retire in peace".
posted by jason_steakums at 8:41 PM on May 16, 2017 [15 favorites]


Oh, and another question for the informed hivemind here: what's the deal with all of the embassies where Trump recalled people ASAP? Are there many foreign posts still unfilled?
posted by TwoStride at 8:43 PM on May 16, 2017


I've been watching a betting market on and off which is predicting which year Trump will exit office. For 2017, it's been drifting around 5:1 - 6:1 for most of the year, but has now dropped to 3.3:1.

5dimes has 2:1, so if you're seeing 3:1...I mean.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:44 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


METAFILTER: without the benefits of drugs, alcohol, and nihilism
posted by philip-random at 8:46 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Oh, and another question for the informed hivemind here: what's the deal with all of the embassies where Trump recalled people ASAP? Are there many foreign posts still unfilled?

57 of the 188 nations and UN departments that have diplomatic relations with the United States still don't have someone nominated to be ambassador.
posted by Talez at 8:46 PM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


A White House careening out of control in permanent 24/7 damage control mode could leave the GOP paddling to not get sucked under by the ferret-headed maelstrom and thus unable to enact most of their inhumane agenda at all. It would also likely feed into the growing energy that could lead to landslide midterms allowing Democrats to regain some control over government.

I'm temped to say we might be better off with the second option if we can get through the next year and a half relatively unscathed before getting the toddler-in-chief impeached. But it's a huge if. He could still trigger WWIII by accident, out of sheer vindictiveness or to feed his ego. There's already massive harm being done to innocent people in this country. It's hard to say which option would ultimately result in the lesser amount of harm done. But giving them the chance to settle into relative normalcy (and after Trump that will be a low, low bar) also seems extremely dangerous.

Really not sure what's best.


I recall that the Clinton campaign allegedly worked to help get Trump nominated because he'd be easy to beat because - after all? - who would vote for Trump? I don't think we can count on people being turned off enough by him for there to be a blue wave in 2018. If we risk global thermo-nuclear war and still have a red congress next term, it would mean at least two more years of Trumpian damage.

No, get him out of there, get the boring Christianist in, and start pointing out how much worse the Republicans as a whole are based on the horrible things they're voting for - and offer something better.

He's a home poop taper

My least favorite line from Steve Miller's "Joker."
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:47 PM on May 16, 2017 [18 favorites]


Reporters are now increasingly aware of the video. The problem is that the US won't and can't act against Turkey. I mean, did we do anything when similar violence happened last year under Obama?

One bit of the Washington Post report today that didn't get enough attention was that Trump asked Comey to jail journalists for doing their jobs. While the White House anonymously denied the claims about Flynn, nobody is rushing forward to say that the President would never say that. Protesters beaten at the Turkish Ambassador's residence goes hand-in-hand with that particular effort to stomp on the First Amendment.

Are there many foreign posts still unfilled?

A large chunk of the ambassador positions have gone without him bothering to appoint anyone. There are still career diplomats in place. There are also no assistant or under secretaries at the State Department, such as an Assistant secretary for diplomatic security (can you spell Benghazi?) or a Coordinator for counter-terrorism.
posted by zachlipton at 8:48 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


5dimes has 2:1, so if you're seeing 3:1...I mean.

I'm considering placing another bet, but I already have $150 at 6:1.
That money is for the impeachment party.
posted by solarion at 8:50 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Sorry but I don't want to see a fucking 25th Amendment removal. That's hardly a slap on the wrist. It's not enough.

I want to see Trump dragged through the mud, humiliated and mocked. I want to see him become a laughingstock, the butt of every schoolyard joke, disowned by everyone who he ever thought of as a friend. I want to see the tangled mess of his finances revealed and for the 'author' of Art of the Deal to be exposed as the mediocre con man he's always been. I want to see whatever remains of his fortune burned away in fines and settlements and legal fees. I want to see him surgically dismantled in court, held in contempt, sentenced with prejudice, and I want to see him die in jail. I want to see his children change their names to avoid the shame but I want it to cling to them anyway, to see them hounded and disgraced to the extent that they supported and enabled him. And finally, once his fate has been witnessed by the world and he's put in the ground in a cheap pine box, I want to see him erased: not even a footnote in history books, or a cautionary tale, or a late-night monologue target, his name pried and sandblasted off of every one of his buildings before they are sold or demolished, every hint of his existence expunged.

Damnatio memoriae is too good for him, but I'll take it.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 8:51 PM on May 16, 2017 [55 favorites]


Describe Trump's White House with a gif

I needed this before bed.
posted by Tevin at 8:51 PM on May 16, 2017 [41 favorites]


There are people in place who are acting as the ambassador until a new one is confirmed, in most cases it should be the next ranking career person. Most of the government is working with senior leadership in acting capacities, the indispensable jobs don't just go undone, they limp along with career people trying to manage with diminished authority compared to a real, legitimate senate confirmed appointee with authority to speak for the new administration. Acting positions have a lot of difficulty doing anything other than continuing to execute prior policy, because they have no legitimate authority to change anything.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:52 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


A large chunk of the ambassador positions have gone without him bothering to appoint anyone. There are still career diplomats in place.

I'm... okay with this? (Obviously not in the long term, but for now I'm okay with Trumpists not taking the helm in all our embassies right away.)
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:52 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS:

** Philly DA - As noted above, strong progressive and civil rights attorney Larry Krasner has won the Dem nomination. This is effectively winning the general in Philadelphia. This will be huge for justice in Philly.

** Pittsburgh mayor - Progressive incumbent Bill Peduto has won the Dem nomination. This is effectively winning the general in Pittsburgh. Peduto is not perfect, but definitely the best of the three candidates.

** GA-06 special
-- Handel says she'll do a single debate.
-- Ossoff out with new ad targeting Handel's controversial history with Planned Parenthood.
** GA SD32 special - GOP held this State Senate seat, 58-42.

** VA Gov
-- WaPo poll has Gillespie with a 38-18 lead for the GOP nom, is the likely candidate at this point. That said, Trump approval in VA stands at 36%, with "strongly unfavorable" at 52%.

-- On the Dem side, new PPP poll has Northam up 42-28. Other polling has shown this one much closer.
** MT-AL special
-- Buzzfeed piece on the race.

-- FWIW, professional conservative Erick Erickson says GOP internal polling is starting to look not good for Gianforte.
** SC-05 special - The GOP nomination looks like it might be going to double overtime. Norman beat Pope by 200 votes out of 35,000 in the runoff, triggering an automatic recount. Norman is the more extreme of the two.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:52 PM on May 16, 2017 [27 favorites]


Describe Trump's White House with a gif

OMG the one with the elephant flailing... it's so perfect!
posted by TwoStride at 8:54 PM on May 16, 2017 [6 favorites]


The 25th would be a mixed blessing for the GOP. Skipping the investigations and the dirt is obviously a big plus for them using the amendment. But, /r/the_donald would go absolutely apeshit, as would /pol/. The conspiracy theories would be furious, and spurred on by Macedonian teenagers + whatever the Russians do to destablize the country. Maybe the RNC emails would finally show up on Wikileaks.

Trump's still popular with the GOP base, and his personal base is the most rabid parts of the GOP. Maybe the 25th Amendment would spark a civil war in the party, and lead many Republicans to consider Pence illegitimate.
posted by honestcoyote at 8:54 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


The 25th would present all kinds of political problems, though - first off, it's not like Ivanka, Bannon, etc are all going to say "yes, we agree, Trump is in the early stages of dementia" unless there's an amazing amount of behind the scenes strong-arming. All core staff must know that he's ill but they've been pretending otherwise. Their political careers are tied to him - admitting that he's not fit to be in office means admitting that all along they've been playing up the whims and fancies of a sick man to advance their own agendas.

Now, if they did this, like, tomorrow, with some kind of unified "we have all had our doubts and now we must speak" line, they might get away with it. But they won't.

Also, it's not like Trump is going to go meekly. Picture telling him that he's unfit and can't be president - there would be a show the like of which the world has never seen. Twitter would go supernova.

And consider the wingnut 27% - if Trump is ill, then they've been following along behind a man who is too ill to lead. They won't want to believe that.

I'm not saying it can't happen, but there's a lot more political cost to it than one might think.

I don't think they'll impeach unless things get worse, and I don't think they'll invoke the 25th while Trump can just be passed off as an impulsive strongman.

(His horrible unfilial children, facilitating this situation! If we had opposite saints, where people were sort of canonized as evil, they would surely be put up there as examples of unfilial evil. Think about if this goes on and he deteriorates more and more obviously in the next year or so - think of how horrible it will be for him to be removed from office when he just doesn't have the cognitive skills to process it. If he weren't ill, I'd be glad to see him shamed and removed; as it is, I want him removed but there's something really ugly in forcing a dementia patient out of the remnants of a normal life.)
posted by Frowner at 8:54 PM on May 16, 2017 [14 favorites]


No, get him out of there, get the boring Christianist in, and start pointing out how much worse the Republicans as a whole are based on the horrible things they're voting for - and offer something better.

Yeah, Trump out and Pence in does a lot to force the Democrats to run on policy instead of giving in to the temptation to just run as "not Trump", which will be really hard for them to resist despite how that kind of thing went in 2004.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:54 PM on May 16, 2017 [20 favorites]


god damnit metafilter you are going to make me read a ross douthat column just to make damn sure he's not breaking his streak of having the worst take on everything
posted by murphy slaw at 8:56 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Really not sure what's best.

The question of Trump vs Pence has been on my mind for a while. The strategic value of keeping Trump to bat around vs the not dying in WWIII / undermining the entire world order value that Pence would likely bring. And yeah, even then it would still be a toss up for me because the Republican Party might be the most dangerous organization on the planet today if you consider everything they are trying to do. And Trump is doing a great job of destroying their brand.

But the trouble with leaving Trump around to help rally the Democrats is that the Democrats are pretty lame. And they will continue to be lame if they are allowed to pass all the blame and focus onto the idiot-in-chief. So we have to eliminate Trump and force the Democrats to campaign on a real agenda. If he sticks around they will just campaign against him, and we will end up in 2009 middle of the road blah again.
posted by Glibpaxman at 8:57 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Growing GOP Calls For Comey To Testify Following Bombshell Report

I enjoyed this sentence: Pushing his way through a swarm of reporters and into an elevator, Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) only grumbled “sounds like fake news” and refused to answer questions.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:59 PM on May 16, 2017 [17 favorites]


"How was that even able to get to the point that it did? What the fuck is going on? Trump has Erdogan over to visit and invites all the goons, too? Gives them free reign to run amok all over the place and punch protesters? (Most if not all of whom were Kurdish, FYI) Fuck Erdogan and FUCK TRUMP. "

Watching that, and considering Trump and Erdogan inside, side-by-side, just seemed to me to be like a perfect encapsulation of the values of this Administration. Not just the authoritarian thuggery, but also that it's perpetrated on US soil against protesters by embassy personnel of a country led by a conservative Islamist, anti-secular, anti-democratic, strongman leader who, despite Trump's Islamaphobia, is seen very positively by Trump merely because he's anti-ISIS, a strong leader brutal autocrat riding a wave of paranoid populist frenzy, who is anti-Europe (screw those European snobs, right?) -- or, more succinctly, precisely Trump's sort of person. This is our Presidency in one short video.

"One bit of the Washington Post report today that didn't get enough attention was that Trump asked Comey to jail journalists for doing their jobs."

Yet another thing that Trump shares with Putin and Erdogan.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:59 PM on May 16, 2017 [10 favorites]


god damnit metafilter you are going to make me read a ross douthat column just to make damn sure he's not breaking his streak of having the worst take on everything

HE ISN'T. He makes sure to say in his special way that he thinks passes for good style, so you can't miss it, with great explicitness, that it is good and right to take Trump down now, because no matter what we (Republicans) do about him, and we must do something, no matter how disgraced he gets, it won't unelect him and it won't unseat Gorsuch, so fuck Hillary, this won't do her any good and we won anyway, so it's safe, don't feel bad about it guys! he's right, too.

I hate him more than I hate Jason Chaffetz and don't anybody ever call him anything less than scum just because he's the only man in his party who read a book, once, maybe in college
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:02 PM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


...but I do like his very clear grandstanding insistence that Trump isn't demented or Alzheimer's-ridden, just a mental child who can't handle any of the demands of the office and never could. not ill, unfit.

he's a garbage person though
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:03 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


Sorry but I don't want to see a fucking 25th Amendment removal. That's hardly a slap on the wrist. It's not enough.

I want to see Trump dragged through the mud, humiliated and mocked.


For Trump himself removal via 25th or removal via impeachment equate to the same thing. This is a man who takes the smallest criticism as a massive blow to his ego. He can't stand people calling his hands small or seeing a parody on SNL, much less be legally declared unfit. Removal from the position for any reason would send him into a tantrum of historic proportions. His fingers would be bleeding before anyone could tear his phone and his tweets away from him. I don't think you have to worry about him feeling humiliated irrespective of the method used to remove him from office.
posted by Anonymous at 9:03 PM on May 16, 2017


I also read somewhere that a pissed off Trump who got 25thed out of the White House could take his MAGA screaming horde and run for office in 2020. Impeached Trump would be legally barred from doing so.
posted by Glibpaxman at 9:04 PM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


okay so i read it, and he's wrong, but he's wrong within normal parameters, which, for ross douthat, is almost like being right
posted by murphy slaw at 9:04 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


a pissed off Trump who got 25thed out of the White House could take his MAGA screaming horde and run for office in 2020
splitting the Republican Party? sounds nice!
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:07 PM on May 16, 2017 [12 favorites]


the only nice thing about a 25th amendment removal is that it doesn't have to be as legalistic as an impeachment, so the cabinet could dismiss him with a statement that he is being relieved of his duties because "you can't do the damn job and nobody likes you"
posted by murphy slaw at 9:08 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


We need to start reminding Republicans of when they all said "wow this ticket is upside down!" after the Pence/Kaine debate. Remember how much you liked Mr. Pence? Don't you boys want to trade in this madness for a big glass of soothing Pence Milk? Go ahead. Take a sip.
posted by theodolite at 9:11 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


The 25th would present all kinds of political problems, though - first off, it's not like Ivanka, Bannon, etc are all going to say "yes, we agree, Trump is in the early stages of dementia" unless there's an amazing amount of behind the scenes strong-arming.

Ivanka and Bannon are not cabinet members, so they don't get a say. If Pence can wrangle the signatures of eight Secretaries, he can invoke the 25th.

The main wrinkle is that Trump can reclaim his powers just by sending a letter affirming his rude health to the president pro tempore. Pence and company would then have four days to submit a dissenting letter, at which point Congress would have to decide the matter anyway.
posted by Iridic at 9:15 PM on May 16, 2017 [9 favorites]


Which eight Secretaries might sign on if Pence approached them?
posted by EarBucket at 9:18 PM on May 16, 2017


This is now the second time in roughly a year that apparent Turkish security officials have assaulted protesters in Washington, and nobody cares.

For what it's worth: That video gives me the strong impression that the DC Police cared at least enough to get physical with more than a few of Erdogan's goons. I suspect they were under a lot of restrictions given the diplomatic issues, which is probably why they didn't arrest the goons, but... well, credit where it's due, at least.

It's nice when we get video of cops doing their jobs. I'd love to see more cases of cops protecting protesters.

And if it turns out they could totally have arrested said goons I naturally rescind my measured praise.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:19 PM on May 16, 2017 [23 favorites]


Which eight Secretaries might sign on if Pence approached them?

The Secretaries of Not, Interested, In, Re-election, Or, Millionaire, Tax, and Cuts.

But I don't think those Secretaries have been appointed yet, they don't seem be able to find any Republicans willing to fill those roles.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 9:21 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


mcmaster and tillerson are probably down for it after the last couple of days.

twitter rumors say there may be no press briefing tomorrow, so i guess we'll just have to get by on the torrent of leaks as the white house goes into siege mode and completely surrenders control of the narrative
posted by murphy slaw at 9:21 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


You know, I favorited Miko's comment way back there about this being an intellectual victory for Russia, but honestly I'm convinced none of these people including Russia has the slightest idea what they're doing and that the real secret is what many of us have suspected since childhood: Adults are actually lying every time they pretend to know what's going on or have any control over it.

There is nothing intellectual about this.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:26 PM on May 16, 2017 [46 favorites]


There's already massive harm being done to innocent people in this country. It's hard to say which option would ultimately result in the lesser amount of harm done. But giving them the chance to settle into relative normalcy (and after Trump that will be a low, low bar) also seems extremely dangerous.

Really not sure what's best.


Getting Twitler the fuck out of office as fast as possible is best. Hands down. The damage he's already doing is incalculably worse than what Pence or any other likely successor will do. The intelligence revelation alone is a good demonstration. Remember, it's not just the Israelis that just got burned; it's the warning to literally every other ally and potential source in an area of interest that the US can't be trusted.

And consider: this administration still has yet to face an external crisis. No major hurricanes, no earthquakes, no oil-spewing holes in the Gulf, no sudden and frightening downturn of the economy. But such things happen. They're part of life on this planet. And sooner or later, Putin will make a dangerous move on the world scene. The more incompetence and malfeasance we have at the top, the more people will suffer and die for it.

Ask yourself if you're okay with someone you love dying for the sake of a better edge in 2018 or 2020. Seriously.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:26 PM on May 16, 2017 [68 favorites]


Which eight Secretaries might sign on if Pence approached them?

Looking at the list
, Sessions is the only true Trump loyalist right?
posted by Glibpaxman at 9:28 PM on May 16, 2017


No Spicey briefing tomorrow because of the trip (to the Coast Guard Academy, the President is speaking at their commencement), just a gaggle on AF1, but on Thursday, we get a press conference with Trump and the President of Colombia, which normally implies that Trump will himself be asked to answer some questions. So that could be interesting.
posted by zachlipton at 9:28 PM on May 16, 2017 [2 favorites]


Which eight Secretaries might sign on if Pence approached them?

I'm going to go with 0. None of them have any incentive to sign on, and Pence is too invested in Trump to instigate a 25th amendment approach, and honestly he's too fucking stupid to even see the advantage in that for himself. If you watched any of his term in Indiana, he's really like a homeschooled bag of hammers on field trip to the creation museum. Pence was done in politics until Trump called looking for anyone to sign on as VP, he's not going to willingly become the implement of the Republican's and his own destruction
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:32 PM on May 16, 2017 [45 favorites]


too bad the cadets probably have too much respect for the office to turn their backs on him at the ceremony
posted by murphy slaw at 9:32 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


Which eight Secretaries might sign on if Pence approached them?

DeVos -- no way she does anything except stick herself like glue to a fellow glassy-eyed religious fanatic.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:32 PM on May 16, 2017 [7 favorites]


No Spicey briefing tomorrow because of the trip (to the Coast Guard Academy, the President is speaking at their commencement)

Once again, on behalf of my beloved former service, I would like to give this treasonous regime both of my middle fingers. In the face. Until it hurts.

Not even fucking officers should have to put up with these assholes.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:33 PM on May 16, 2017 [12 favorites]



You know, I favorited Miko's comment way back there about this being an intellectual victory for Russia, but honestly I'm convinced none of these people including Russia has the slightest idea what they're doing and that the real secret is what many of us have suspected since childhood: Adults are actually lying every time they pretend to know what's going on or have any control over it.


Hasn't Putin's FSB has been cultivating potential assets and manipulating media for quite some time? They and Trump won because of the FSB's groundwork and the shitty political situation created by the Party of the Southern Strategy in league with Fox News et. al.
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:34 PM on May 16, 2017


Since the Comey meeting was on Feb 14, can we officially call the memo Comey's Valentine?
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:39 PM on May 16, 2017 [21 favorites]


Politico: White House on edge: 'We are kind of helpless'
“There was a pervasive sense, another official said, that “we are kind of helpless.”
...
But White House officials, one person said, are becoming increasingly leery of putting their names on statements in the immediate aftermath of stories – because Trump often contradicts them publicly or on Twitter.
...
Trump was furious about the story, one of the officials said, but retreated to the White House residence within 75 minutes of it going online – leaving aides to “figure out how bad the fallout was.”
...
White House officials said there would be no more comments Tuesday evening.

“And we are hoping the president doesn’t tweet,” one said. “Fingers crossed.”
Apparently, a good chunk of the reason nobody will defend Trump on this on the record is that nobody seems to actually know what he said to Comey, and the President went back to the Residence around 75 minutes after it went live.

Again, maybe if someone finds the need to say this stuff to a reporter every night they should quit their job.
posted by zachlipton at 9:41 PM on May 16, 2017 [26 favorites]


> this administration still has yet to face an external crisis. No major hurricanes...

Well, not the external crisis part, but he basically denied disaster relief for Hurricane Matthew to North Carolina; granting a measly $6.1 million in response to a request for $929 million.
posted by fragmede at 9:44 PM on May 16, 2017 [20 favorites]


His lies are to the point of implicating any member of the staff that covers for him
In obstruction of justice or treason. They all deserve it, but you have to wonder how many people in the White House are currently evaluating their own criminal liability.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:46 PM on May 16, 2017 [3 favorites]


Which eight Secretaries might sign on if Pence approached them?

We're so far off the fucking map, it has unicorns and leviathans on it.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:59 PM on May 16, 2017 [27 favorites]


And that's why you don't try to ratfuck the head of the FBI, you goddamned idiots.

Trump didn't have a choice while the FBI's Russia investigation was inexorably grinding away and Flynn was on tape telling the Russian ambassador all about REDACTED. He had to try to do something.

I know we are not giant fans of Jim Comey, but I have to say, my first reaction to him in this instance is "Oh thank everloving fuck finally one character in this farce has an actual BRAIN in his HEAD."

I'm not happy with the fallout from his letter to Chaffetz regarding Hillary's emails, but it does make him almost unsmearable now that he's coming forward with Trump's obstruction of justice and Trump's efforts to imprison journalists.
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:10 PM on May 16, 2017 [5 favorites]


I've got bad news for you, Sebastien. Turns out Comey was working for Obama and Clinton's political careers all along (if you believe certain right-wing news sites)
posted by Yowser at 10:18 PM on May 16, 2017


He had to try to do something.

what he had to do was bum-rush flynn out of the white house the moment yates first brought it to his attention.

by the time he was trying to strong-arm comey it was already way too late for damage control.
posted by murphy slaw at 10:19 PM on May 16, 2017 [1 favorite]


I want to see Trump dragged through the mud, humiliated and mocked.

SHAME! *ding* SHAME! *ding* SHAME *ding*

Which eight Secretaries might sign on if Pence approached them?

It could be like NCAA March Madness brackets! I've got Tillerson, Mnuchin, Mattis, Zinke, Ross, Acosta, Shulkin, Kelly.

If McConnell and co finally have enough you'd probably get Chao (obviously) and Perdue on board. But they don't make my bracket!
posted by Justinian at 10:27 PM on May 16, 2017 [8 favorites]


You know, I favorited Miko's comment way back there about this being an intellectual victory for Russia, but honestly I'm convinced none of these people including Russia has the slightest idea what they're doing

These were Russia's goals:

1) Undermine the US's system of democracy
2) Undermine the perception of democracy as a useful, unassailable form of government
3) Resurrect the perception of Russia's as a dominant world power
4) Fuck over Hillary Clinton (Putin really really hates Clinton)

Stretch goals:
5) Get into power a POTUS who will weaken the US government both on the national and international stage

Super-stretch goals:
6) Get into power a POTUS they can actively manipulate into using the power of the US government to advance Russian interests

They have achieved all these goals beyond their wildest dreams. If they've made any mistake, it is in underestimating exactly how successful their tactics would be.
posted by Anonymous at 10:35 PM on May 16, 2017


Report: Gerrymandering responsible for 16-17 GOP seats.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:08 PM on May 16, 2017 [43 favorites]


DeVos -- no way she does anything except stick herself like glue to a fellow glassy-eyed religious fanatic.

But in this case, however, that would be Pence (leading the 25th Amendment Coup), not the blatantly non-religious Trump, right?
posted by msalt at 11:36 PM on May 16, 2017


Because that's the other real problem there: not merely getting Secretaries to sign on, but doing so without alerting Trump, who could, in response, dismiss (as he did Comey) any Secretaries he thought disloyal.

Just spread a rumor that sympathizers should gift Pence a single cigarette during his routine inspections to signal their intent.
posted by pwnguin at 11:50 PM on May 16, 2017 [4 favorites]


From peeedro's WaPo link:
Even 30 years later, I vividly remember the ominous feeling when Trump got angry about some perceived slight. Everyone around him knew that you were best off keeping your distance at those times, or, if that wasn’t possible, to resist disagreeing with him in any way.

In the hundreds of Trump’s phone calls I listened in on with his consent, and the dozens of meetings I attended with him, I can never remember anyone disagreeing with him about anything.
The same climate of fear and paranoia appears to have taken root in his White House.
This is why Republicans have not come out against him. It's not just fear of MAGAhats or getting primaried or whatever flimsy electoral justification could possibly approximately justify their betrayal of the nation they were meant to serve. They still think (thought? Dare I be so optimistic?) he would further their granny-starving agenda as long as they kept slipping him dopamine pellets.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 12:05 AM on May 17, 2017 [13 favorites]


If Trump smells the 25th coming, can he get rid of Pence?
posted by PenDevil at 12:06 AM on May 17, 2017


If Trump smells the 25th coming, can he get rid of Pence?

No. That would require a majority vote of the House and two-thirds vote in the Senate.
posted by jaduncan at 12:09 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]


NEWS IN BRIEF
3.2.17 Vol 53 Issue 08
Russian Officials Scrambling As Plan To Delegitimize Western Democracy Moving Way Faster Than Intended

MOSCOW—Working frantically to readjust the schedule they had outlined back in June 2015, Russian officials admitted to reporters Thursday that they have been left scrambling after seeing their plan to delegitimize Western democracy move much faster than they had intended. “We originally had a two-to-four-year timeline to carefully undermine the legitimacy of the American political system, so we’ve had no choice but to suddenly push ahead on a few things we didn’t expect to even start talking about until at least 2018,” said Minister of Foreign Affairs Sergey Lavrov, adding that following the recent forced resignation of Trump National Security Advisor Michael Flynn, Russian officials had prepared for perjury allegations against Attorney General Jeff Sessions to arise sometime in mid-May at the earliest. “We were right where we wanted to be around November after slowly destroying the credibility of the Democratic party over the course of the prior year, but we never thought so much public trust in the White House would erode in a matter of a few weeks. We’re pleased, of course, but keeping up is going to be a real challenge.” Lavrov went on to say he was deeply concerned that Trump’s impeachment would occur well before the president could cause the amount of damage to America that the Kremlin had originally intended.
http://www.theonion.com/article/russian-officials-scrambling-plan-delegitimize-wes-55434 (probably fake)
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:26 AM on May 17, 2017 [23 favorites]


homeschooled bag of hammers on field trip to the creation museum.

Oh snap
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:22 AM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump, 1:24 PM - 27 Jul 2012:
Just as I predicted, @BarackObama has not allowed an independent investigation into the national security leaks from his cabinet.
My new theory is that Trump's power of projected prognostication also drove him mad.
posted by jaduncan at 1:57 AM on May 17, 2017 [60 favorites]


My new theory is that Trump's power of projected prognostication also drove him mad.

Oh my god

Does this mean Donald Trump wasn't born in the United States?
posted by J.K. Seazer at 2:09 AM on May 17, 2017 [36 favorites]


If he was 25'd, the question is - what happens to the various investigations? I can't see any way that they wouldn't have to go ahead and then some. You've just fired POTUS for whatever mix of medical and personal inadequacies deemed least harmful to the GOP: how, then, do you avoid going into the smouldering wreckage and finding out what the hell he did in there? Is there a Ford-pardons-Nixon move to just pretend nothing happened really?
posted by Devonian at 3:06 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


DJIA futures are down over 100 points. Good morning America...
posted by spitbull at 3:11 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


My least favorite line from Steve Miller's "Joker."

He's a GOPer, he's a groper, he's a piss-poor coper...
posted by Ralston McTodd at 3:44 AM on May 17, 2017 [39 favorites]


Pamela Brown on CNN reports that a source close to Comey says that he didn't document conversations with Obama because "there was no need to document conversations with people that are truthful."

Ouch. Trump is not gonna like that.
posted by Justinian at 3:45 AM on May 17, 2017 [124 favorites]


"there was no need to document conversations with people that are truthful."

Kind of ironic that some of those people (you know who I'm talking about) were known as 'truthers' isn't it?
posted by Myeral at 3:49 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]


Dollar down sharply too.
posted by spitbull at 4:04 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


source close to Comey says that he didn't document conversations with Obama because "there was no need to document conversations with people that are truthful."

Also probably because Obama never asked him to pledge personal loyalty and never tried to get him to drop an investigation into potential wrongdoing by a member of his administration. (Which is the difference between a president who was a professor of constitutional law and one who was a real estate developer with Mafia connections, I guess.)
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 4:14 AM on May 17, 2017 [42 favorites]


Even if I'm being extremely generous and suppose that Trump wants out and gets exactly what he wants, his head is going to explode when he sees the parties in the streets.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:27 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


Most of the government is working with senior leadership in acting capacities, the indispensable jobs don't just go undone, they limp along with career people trying to manage with diminished authority compared to a real, legitimate senate confirmed appointee with authority to speak for the new administration.

That's not entirely true. Trump still has his shadow cabinet of unappointed staff in many agencies that have regular meetings with the White House. Forcing decisions to go through these people is rewriting the traditional chain of command. Unless they are honest enough to recuse themselves from decisions because of financial investments and admit they are foxes guarding the henhouse.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 4:32 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


Even if I'm being extremely generous and suppose that Trump wants out and gets exactly what he wants, his head is going to explode when he sees the parties in the streets.

Maybe he'll be happy because they're bigger than Obama's parties.
posted by mmoncur at 4:32 AM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]


Here's that Pamela Brown report from CNN in article form.

Comey documented 'everything he could remember' after Trump conversations
In one memo, Comey included a description of Trump talking to him about crowd size at the inauguration.
The source said Comey did not do this with President Barack Obama, in part, because he had fewer one-on-one conversations with him.
"There is no need to document the conversations with people who are truthful or situations that are routine. It's when you have situations that are not routine and people who are not truthful, you would write a memo to file," the source said. "There have been other occasions where he has done this but not everyday."
posted by murphy slaw at 4:40 AM on May 17, 2017 [24 favorites]


okay now putin is just drunk and sitting in an armchair in his underwear, flipping through cable news and laughing uproariously

REUTERS: LATEST: Russia's Putin says he can give record of Trump and Lavrov conversation to U.S. congress and senate
posted by murphy slaw at 4:43 AM on May 17, 2017 [78 favorites]


According to Reuters, "Putin says he can give record of Trump and Lavrov conversation to U.S. Congress and Senate." WTF
posted by mothershock at 4:45 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]


reuters clarifies that this is a transcript, not an audio recording. (but still!)
posted by murphy slaw at 4:45 AM on May 17, 2017


The Washington Post has coverage of the melee outside the Turkish embassy. They didn't have a reporter at the scene, so the story is pretty thin.
posted by peeedro at 4:49 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


As much as I want to see Trump squirm, I have huge misgivings about staking anything on the veracity of written records coming from Russia.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 4:49 AM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]


i suspect that congress is going to politely decline putin's offer but i'm sure trump is shitting his pants so hard that he's ruining suits he's not even wearing
posted by murphy slaw at 4:51 AM on May 17, 2017 [35 favorites]


I'm guessing that the lack of an audio recording is because they haven't yet succeeded in training a neural network to transform spoken speech into Donald Trump's voice.
posted by acb at 4:52 AM on May 17, 2017


As much as I want to see Trump squirm, I have huge misgivings about staking anything on the veracity of written records coming from Russia.

Not a problem. Just wait for the tweets about them not recording him accurately.
posted by solarion at 4:53 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]


If I were Comey I'd start with the memos, wait for Trump to lie about them, and then pull the tapes out of my pocket.

You mean priming the Trump?

Have you heard that expression used before?
Because I haven’t heard it.
I mean, I just…I came up with it a couple of minutes ago and I thought it was good.
It’s what you have to do. Yeah, what you have to do is you have to feed him something before you can get something out.
I get a lot of admiration for this expression from many famous people.

posted by sour cream at 4:54 AM on May 17, 2017 [73 favorites]


In one memo, Comey included a description of Trump talking to him about crowd size at the inauguration.

Um, the earlier reporting about the January "loyalty dinner" said this was one topic of discussion, so this could indicate Comey did a memo about that one too.

On the other hand, it probably comes up at every Trump meeting with anyone ever, so there's that. God it would be hilarious if each Comey memo had a "brags about electoral vote and crowd size" section.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:56 AM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]


Today's line of Trump surrogate bullshit: why didn't Comey immediately bust Trump for obstruction, and instead kept it in his pocket? He is apparently the second coming of J Edgar Hoover. It's Attack Comey Day.
posted by spitbull at 4:57 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


Bravo Putin, bravo

I'm horrified laughing at how borked this is.
posted by Jalliah at 4:59 AM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]


Today's line of Trump surrogate bullshit: why didn't Comey immediately bust Trump for obstruction, and instead kept it in his pocket? He is apparently the second coming of J Edgar Hoover. It's Attack Comey Day.

Ha, Comey was not biding his time and taking notes on his terrible boss. He was doing it about a suspect, which is, you know, what law enforcement officers do: give 'em enough rope.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:00 AM on May 17, 2017 [45 favorites]


interesting twitter thread about how both conservative commentators in the NYT who have thrown trump under the bus did so in a way that minimizes his responsibility

1. This is the second op-ed by a conservative white man writing for @nytimes this week to call Trump a child. Trump is not a child.

2. Children are cute. Children are curious. They’re well-meaning and they love discovery. Trump is none of those things. He is 70 years old.

3. Calling him a child, infantilizing him, diminishes his accountability. Trump is not a child, he's an adult monster. Hold him to account.

4. It is “troubling,” to use GOP’s favorite word, that conservatives are choosing the least objectionable metaphor for Trump's behavior.

5. There are other explanations. He’s a narcissistic, ignorant, arrogant, mendacious, bellicose, conman, a pathological liar. He may have

6. cognitive impairment. He acts like a sociopath, w no regard for wellbeing of others. He may be sick. He's not a child. He is responsible.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:01 AM on May 17, 2017 [80 favorites]


It must have been amazing for Comey to read Trump's "tapes" threat on twitter, knowing he had all these memos filed.
posted by ryanrs at 5:01 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]


The WaPo breaking news alert has this headline, emphasis mine:

Putin says Russia is ready to deliver records of Trump's talks with Lavrov to U.S. lawmakers if White House approves

No link, it's just a banner right now.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:03 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


do we have hard proof that putin doesn't have a 4chan account himself? because oh, the lulz
posted by murphy slaw at 5:04 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]


Putin then offered recordings of last night' Oval Office meltdown scene, as soon as the recordings have been reviewed and processed from the bugs Lavrov left behind.
posted by spitbull at 5:08 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]


narcissistic, ignorant, arrogant, mendacious, bellicose, conman, a pathological liar

Needs more "traitorous."
posted by spitbull at 5:10 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


full article from the AP

The Latest: Putin says Russia meddling furor is ‘nonsense’
Russian President Vladimir Putin has lashed out at U.S. politicians whipping up what he described as “anti-Russian sentiment” for being either “stupid” or “dangerous.”

Speaking at a joint news conference with the visiting Italian prime minister, Putin said on Wednesday Moscow initially found debates about Russia’s meddling in U.S. politics as “funny” but said Moscow is now “concerned because it’s hard to imagine what the people who produce such nonsense can come up with next.”

...

Speaking at a joint news conference with the visiting Italian prime minister on Wednesday, Putin said he had “no other explanation” as to why Trump came under attack other than “political schizophrenia.” Putin even suggested that Russia share the records of last week’s talks between Trump and Lavrov with the U.S. Congress, if the White House approved.

Putin joked that that he would reprimand Lavrov because “he hasn’t shared those secrets with us.”
so putin is willing to cover for trump in a way that will not help his credibility at all AND gets to tell our allies that he is shocked, shocked that gambling is happening in this establishment. nice work.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:12 AM on May 17, 2017 [21 favorites]


Thing is Trump is likely so dumb and so desperate that he might actually be all "see look Putin says I didn't do it and they have proof!! Like a record and everything!"

And then there will be talk about how the Russian transcript came to be.

Was it someone's notes or (cue ominous music) a recording.

And if the Russians managed to record which is more then plausible cause their ducking media was in the room...

Fun times for all
posted by Jalliah at 5:13 AM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]


A transcript would have to come from a recording. Otherwise, they should say they have notes. Or was there another person in the room as well, transcribing?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:16 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


NARRATOR (V.O.): Meanwhile, in New Jersey...

Obviously [fake]- Christie IN New Jersey? Preposterous.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:16 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]


I am mentally and emotionally and physically and spiritually exhausted.
posted by showbiz_liz at 5:17 AM on May 17, 2017 [55 favorites]


CNN: Story on DNC staffer's murder dominated conservative media -- hours later it fell apart

This is pretty juicy. You know Rod Wheeler, the PI hired by a conservative businessman on behalf of Seth Rich's family?
"Tuesday afternoon, Wheeler told CNN he had no evidence to suggest Rich had contacted Wikileaks before his death. Wheeler instead said he only learned about the possible existence of such evidence through the reporter he spoke to for the FoxNews.com story. He explained that the comments he made to WTTG-TV were intended to simply preview Fox News' Tuesday story. The WTTG-TV news director did not respond to multiple requests for comment. "I only got that [information] from the reporter at Fox News," Wheeler told CNN."
There's more!
"Wheeler was put in touch with the Rich family through Dallas businessman Ed Butowsky, who told CNN he had offered to pay any bills associated with the investigation. "You have a family who can't afford a PI. Their son was killed. So I offered to help out," Butowsky said.

Butowsky, a financial adviser, has provided commentary to Fox News on a number of occasions. He has also written columns for Breitbart, and was critical of Hillary Clinton during the 2016 election. Speaking with NBC News, Butowsky had denied his involvement with Wheeler and the Rich family. Asked why, he told CNN, "I didn't want to talk to NBC." Butowsky also said that, thus far, he hasn't "paid any money to anybody." He said Wheeler was investigating the Rich murder at no cost."
posted by msalt at 5:20 AM on May 17, 2017 [29 favorites]


is there any legally defined journalistic malpractice aside from libel? because holy shit, fox news planting their own lede is…probably not a new low but a very obvious one.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:24 AM on May 17, 2017 [17 favorites]


You do wonder at what point Chris Christie gives up hoping and moves on to revenge. About the only thing he could do to win back a bit of political credibility would be to come out as a former US Attorney calling for a prosecutor or impeachment. Not gonna happen I know, but it would seem to be the only Hail Mary pass he and a few others still have --- abandon ship with a boom. Kasich was the only one who kept his distance and he was gloating about it on CNN last night. Gotta think Rubio and Christie and Perry and Gingrich and Ryan and anyone else who dreams of ever running again for the Big Chair are watching the clock right now. Rats gonna rat. Ships gonna sink. And then we get to see how Trump responds to being betrayed by those who bent the knee.
posted by spitbull at 5:24 AM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]


Apparently, CBS This Morning reached out to 20 Republican Senators and Representatives as well as to the White House to appear today. Nobody was willing to come on TV.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:25 AM on May 17, 2017 [48 favorites]


Yes the surrogate crew this morning is decidedly AA league talent and the talking points are wan and desultory What Aboutism and aspersions cast at Comey's motives.

I love the smell of flopsweat in the morning.
posted by spitbull at 5:29 AM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]


** Philly DA - As noted above, strong progressive and civil rights attorney Larry Krasner has won the Dem nomination. This is effectively winning the general in Philadelphia. This will be huge for justice in Philly.

An interesting footnote: Krasner had enormous monetary support from George Soros, though he also has a huge, very local ground game in Philly. He's a defense attorney, but it is definitely interesting that he resoundingly won a city with a pretty good population of moderate Dems, though in an election with jaw-droppingly low turnout. (The current mayor was also a surprise win, mainly because he managed to inspire multiple demographics.) I don't expressly dislike him (though, full disclosure, I voted for Khan and am regretting not doing more to support him), but I'm seriously worried about what it means when huge injections of cash start appearing in DA races, especially in a city that has serious problems with corruption. (Our previous DA is almost certainly going to prison on corruption charges.)
posted by kalimac at 5:35 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]


Is there a German word for schadenfreude + abject terror + deep sadness for the country?
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:36 AM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]


Is there a German word for schadenfreude + abject terror + deep sadness for the country?


Trumpgeistschmerz.
posted by jammer at 5:38 AM on May 17, 2017 [55 favorites]


GOP rep kinzinger was on CNN calling for an independent investigator or commission.
posted by Jalliah at 5:38 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


CNN: Story on DNC staffer's murder dominated conservative media -- hours later it fell apart

"I only got that [information] from the reporter at Fox News," Wheeler told CNN.

The infuriating thing is Fox 5 DC is still running this story:

Seth Rich Murder: What we know and what we don't know


When asked if his sources have told him there is information that links Rich to WikiLeaks, Wheeler said, “Absolutely. Yeah. That's confirmed."

So his "source" was the Fox reporter who went on to report the PI has evidence and sources. It's an ouroboros of bullshit.
posted by bluecore at 5:38 AM on May 17, 2017 [14 favorites]


Oh, and a second footnote for anyone else interested in what's happening at hyperlocal levels (in, uh, Democratic strongholds). PA votes for judges because we never met a stupid system we didn't immediately embrace, and I hear from a friend very much involved in Philly politics that it was an absolute bloodbath for Democratic City Committee judicial candidates. So a message has been sent, it appears.
posted by kalimac at 5:39 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


Gotta think Rubio and Christie and Perry and Gingrich and Ryan and anyone else who dreams of ever running again for the Big Chair are watching the clock right now. Rats gonna rat. Ships gonna sink. And then we get to see how Trump responds to being betrayed by those who bent the knee.

On the one hand, there is so little resistance among GOP pols that it's almost as if Trump has kompromat on every single one of them. Like, he went to the NSA with a list on his first day in office and asked them to get him dirt on everyone on that list. On the other hand, that seems unlikely because it requires much more planning and organization than Trump seems capable of.
Although, perhaps Bannon or Kushner...
posted by sour cream at 5:40 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


We're closing in on 3000 comments. Out of curiosity, is anyone working on a new post?
posted by zarq at 5:41 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]


it was an absolute bloodbath for Democratic City Committee judicial candidates. So a message has been sent, it appears.

uh, not being familiar with the players, what's the message?
posted by murphy slaw at 5:41 AM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]


On the one hand, there is so little resistance among GOP pols that it's almost as if Trump has kompromat on every single one of them. Like, he went to the NSA with a list on his first day in office and asked them to get him dirt on everyone on that list. On the other hand, that seems unlikely because it requires much more planning and organization than Trump seems capable of.

NSA would say no. Did you misspell FSB?
posted by jaduncan at 5:42 AM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]


Man, Philly, show us your ways. It was party business as usual here (Pittsburgh), as far as I can tell.

Things are going to get interesting (as interesting as a local judge's race can get) for the general because the extremely progressive, young guy running for my district's magisterial court changed his affiliation to independent after not getting the Democratic committee endorsement for the primary and will be challenging the incumbent (whose last name is Costa--go ahead and check the PA state assembly and Senate for that last name, you'll see some shitty Western PA Democratic machine politics in action). I'm going to canvas for this kid. I've heard him speak twice now and he's great.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:46 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]


That CNN story on Fox News is pulverizing and I hope there's a way for either the Rich family or the DNC to sue Fox for damages.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:46 AM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]


Ted Lieu @tedlieu
Perhaps Kushner feared he was under FBI investigation. He admitted falsifying his security clearance form by omitting meetings with Russians

In response to:

Norah O'Donnell🇺🇸 @NorahODonnell
Sources tell us Kushner was a prominent voice advocating Comey's firing & the President's angry that move has created a firestorm @MajorCBS

(link goes to tweet)
(Jesus Twitter makes it hard to copy stuff)
posted by Room 641-A at 5:47 AM on May 17, 2017 [30 favorites]


some delightful bombshells in this reuters story about the upcoming trip:

Embroiled in controversies, Trump seeks boost on foreign trip
One Republican official, who requested anonymity in order to speak freely, said after meeting Trump recently he did not think the president had a firm enough grasp on the nuances of the long-running Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

"I don't think he understands it," said the official, adding that Trump needed more detailed briefings before leaving on Friday. "I think it's a very difficult challenge and I hope he's going to talk to a lot of smart people."

Conversations with some officials who have briefed Trump and others who are aware of how he absorbs information portray a president with a short attention span.

He likes single-page memos and visual aids like maps, charts, graphs and photos.

National Security Council officials have strategically included Trump's name in "as many paragraphs as we can because he keeps reading if he's mentioned," according to one source, who relayed conversations he had with NSC officials.
(emphasis mine)
posted by murphy slaw at 5:52 AM on May 17, 2017 [98 favorites]


Be funny if the entire Trump presidency revolves around Jared's evil brilliance on behalf of the Chinese intelligence services and with the maniacal goal of humiliating Chris Christie at any price. Cue diabolical laughter, fade to mushroom clouds and Barber's Adagio.

Could happen I'm just sayin.
posted by spitbull at 5:53 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]


Hey, is there any data about what percentage of Trump voters actually know who Comey and Flynn are?
posted by that's how you get ants at 5:55 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]




Mod note: A couple deleted. Please don't just drop in random news updates, unless they are specifically related to the discussion. If they are, provide the context.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:05 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


National Security Council officials have strategically included Trump's name in "as many paragraphs as we can because he keeps reading if he's mentioned," according to one source, who relayed conversations he had with NSC officials

It's like Being There if Chance the Gardener were a scumbag.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:07 AM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mccain-says-trumps-problems-reaching-watergate-size-2017-05-17

"We’ve seen this movie before. It’s reaching Watergate size and scale. ... This is not good for the country."
Sen. John McCain

I will believe it when he mentions a special prosecutor.
posted by bootlegpop at 6:09 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]


National Security Council officials have strategically included Trump's name in "as many paragraphs as we can because he keeps reading if he's mentioned," according to one source, who relayed conversations he had with NSC officials.

trump trump Trump Trump TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP RESIGN NOW TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP Trump Trump trump trump
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:10 AM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]


I will believe McCain when he actually does any fucking thing whatsoever.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:11 AM on May 17, 2017 [34 favorites]


I'm livid.

I'm livid at a bunch of white men who've been busy gaslighting the majority of the population turning around and going oh, maaaybe he does have dementia and that accounts for some of the worst shit while snuggling their racism, and tax cuts and public policy destruction.

Even if Trump does have dementia , I think it's made him more vulnerable in that he can't execute compensatory behaviors or behaviors that allow him to get away with things. It may have decreased his impulse control, and removed some planning but trump is still trump. Right now, his motivations, ideas and aspirations are prosecutable.
posted by AlexiaSky at 6:12 AM on May 17, 2017 [31 favorites]


I'm livid at a bunch of white men who've been busy gaslighting the majority of the population turning around and going oh, maaaybe he does have dementia and that accounts for some of the worst shit while snuggling their racism, and tax cuts and public policy destruction.

Ironically, it is the same politicians and supportive media groups who often massively denigrate the idea that blue-collar criminals might be unfit to stand trial or might have diminished responsibility.
posted by jaduncan at 6:16 AM on May 17, 2017 [20 favorites]


Permanent childhood for the rich, adult responsibility for the poor.
posted by acb at 6:17 AM on May 17, 2017 [65 favorites]


WaPo op-ed: Trump’s overseas trip must be canceled. The risks are too great.
Here’s the upshot of all this: Trump’s trip must be canceled. Our national security, our relationships with allies, and the security of the world are at risk due to the president’s erratic behavior and inability to adhere to basic norms of both democracy and diplomacy.

Even for a capable president, Trump’s itinerary would represent an ambitious agenda. In Trump’s hands, though, it’s fraught with the perils of tweets, statements, misstatements, boasts or other inappropriate Trump outbursts that could trigger or intensify geopolitical and religious tensions. Beyond politics, the idea that Trump is capable of promoting even an iota of religious tolerance is almost too absurd to even address.

In short, the trip is a catastrophe waiting to happen.
National Lampoon's Political Foreign Vacation.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:21 AM on May 17, 2017 [62 favorites]


His obstruction of justice has nothing to do with dementia.

His cognitive impairments are implicated only in how he expresses himself and perhaps some of his more blatant whoppers (because he can't remember what actually happened, so he just makes shit up) and impulse-control fails, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with his attempts to work the federal government like he's the goddamn orange-faced godfather and Comey is his 7 foot consigliere. That is exactly what he would have done 20 years ago, and how he's been operating his "businesses" his whole life. No one should be shocked that a mafia-connected real estate developer who vowed to run the government like his business is now running the government like a mafia-connected real estate firm.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:21 AM on May 17, 2017 [81 favorites]


If he has dementia, I expect every single of his enablers to go to prison for him for using a disabled rich man for political gain. Because that's also sick and disturbing in it's own right.

And for the actual crimes, ya know.
posted by AlexiaSky at 6:22 AM on May 17, 2017 [21 favorites]


Susan Collins on NPR saying Comey needs to testify as to what the definition of 'is' is. Oh, and 'but her emails'. [/Paraphrased]
posted by jferg at 6:22 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


"I don't think he understands it," said the official, adding that Trump needed more detailed briefings before leaving on Friday. "I think it's a very difficult challenge and I hope he's going to talk to a lot of smart people."

Man, he is so despicable. They are all so despicable. I'm sure they don't mean "he doesn't understand all the nuances and interests on the local level, as you might expect from someone who doesn't have a foreign policy background"; they mean "he barely understands that there is a conflict that does real harm to real people who cannot escape".
posted by Frowner at 6:22 AM on May 17, 2017 [22 favorites]


I am willing to live with whatever lies people have to tell themselves to handle getting rid of him in a way that allows them to pretend that they can sleep at night, but I sure hope it involves somehow shutting him up via some sort of gag order or technology ban. I don't think that Pence in office while Trump tries to start a race war/revolution on Twitter is an improvement on the current situation.
posted by bootlegpop at 6:26 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


Yale Professor Timothy Snyder has been making the rounds of the talk shows to promote his new book "On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the 20th Century". This morning he made his case on Morning Joe and I listened to it in the car on the way to work. If you get a chance to watch it, please do.

He made the case, for a group of people desperately attempting to minimize what is happening in the government right now, that resistance is important. That there is a very small window in which we can resist and that window could be shut at any time. He also clarified for me the statement that "Your institutions will not save you." a quote from Sarah Kendzior. What he described was that in this time of an authoritarian attempt at kidnapping a democracy, we will save our institutions, but our institutions do not work like a machine. They need us to make them work normally and if we aren't pushing, they will work for whomever is pushing hardest. (paraphrasing) Worthwhile if you get a moment. Sorry I couldn't find a clip.
posted by Sophie1 at 6:28 AM on May 17, 2017 [35 favorites]


Maybe this is a weird windmill at which to tilt, but: can we please stop conjecturing about the mental faculties of this evil man? Even if you could prove it, there's exactly 0% chance of him being 25th'd, because he's surrounded himself by toadies who have vested interest in preserving his status. Meanwhile, the world is full of people with nascent dementia who AREN'T busily fucking up the institution of western democracy, and it's kind of a nasty brush to paint them all with. And, as soren_lorensen astutely pointed out, it's not like he was any less of an evil sociopath when he was in his 40's. It's a moot point when he's done so much impeachable shit.
posted by Mayor West at 6:30 AM on May 17, 2017 [28 favorites]


If he has dementia, I expect every single of his enablers to go to prison for him for using a disabled rich man for political gain. Because that's also sick and disturbing in it's own right.

Yeah, that would be particularly perilous for Kushner and Ivanka. What could they say? "We didn't know he was senile, we thought he was just incompetent."
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:32 AM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]


Getting Twitler the fuck out of office as fast as possible is best. Hands down.

Yes. This. Come on guys. Country before party. If we allow Trump to stay in office because we think it helps our electoral prospects, we doing the same thing as Mitch Fucking McConnell, and we are just as bad as he is.

Besides, I'm not really confident we'll have real elections anymore if we don't put a stop to this democracy-destroying nonsense ASAP.

The right wing will rally. They will come up with a line of propaganda and they will double down on destroying any threats to their power.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:34 AM on May 17, 2017 [24 favorites]


I doubt Russia will extradite its own high officials...
posted by acb at 6:34 AM on May 17, 2017


Yale Professor Timothy Snyder has been making the rounds of the talk shows to promote his new book "On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the 20th Century".

This was based on a Facebook post he made last year, which got wide attention and reposts. Below is a link to one repost.

InTheseTimes: 20 Lessons from the 20th Century on How to Survive in Trump’s America - A history professor looks to the past to remind us to do what we can in the face of the unthinkable.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:34 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm just not entirely convinced that Pence would not continue merrily along with Muslim bans, disenfranchisement of voters, starving grannies, and deporting everyone a shade darker than his morning latte. It's not like the entire cabinet goes poof if Trump goes. They're all still there. Heck, Pence could keep Bannon on.

The only thing getting rid of Trump only gets us is: the howlings of his die-hard fans, and the possibility of not dying in a nuclear holocaust. And I'm still iffy on that last bit.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:37 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]


can we please stop conjecturing about the mental faculties of this evil man

The administration is currently imploding due to his mental faculties. So no, I think we need to discuss it.
posted by ryanrs at 6:37 AM on May 17, 2017 [17 favorites]


The howlings of his diehard fans are what will divide the GOP so hope for it.
posted by spitbull at 6:38 AM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]


The administration is currently imploding due to his mental faculties.

Personally I think it's imploding because he's a narcissistic sociopath who's dumb as dirt with an attention span and morality measured in microns. All things that were true decades ago.
posted by chris24 at 6:41 AM on May 17, 2017 [25 favorites]


The administration is currently imploding due to his mental faculties.

Replace "mental faculties" with "actions", and it still applies. So let's ramp down the gross Internet diagnosis and focus on what is happening outside of his head -- you know, the stuff we can affect.
posted by Etrigan at 6:41 AM on May 17, 2017 [14 favorites]


NPR: Bit By Bit, Trump Is Shredding Credibility Of White House Officials
You know who else says you can't believe what White House officials say?

The man whose Twitter handle is @realDonaldTrump, who tweeted last week: "As a very active President with lots of things happening, it is not possible for my surrogates to stand at podium with perfect accuracy!"

The kindest interpretation is that he's saying everyone is human and therefore fallible. Assuredly, press aides of both parties have been sent out to spin mightily, putting the best light on uncomfortable moments.

This crisis of credibility falls in neither category. The Trump administration's inability to convey information accurately or honestly exceeds anything seen in Washington in more than four decades.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:43 AM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]


Snyder is good reading. I have the aforementioned book on order from the library. While it was broader and has been somewhat outpaced by events, I think that his book Black Earth: The Holocaust as History and Warning was in large part responsible for me seeing Trump as the likely winner early on. It might be too depressing to read now, but in general, it made it pretty clear how easily these things can happen.
posted by bootlegpop at 6:43 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]


Yeah, sorry, but as tempting as it may be to me, I view "let's let Trump keep power to further damage the Republican party" to be another form of accelerationism. The man is dangerously ignorant and unstable, and beyond the damage his party wants to do there is very real damage he does, and can continue to do, on a daily basis.

Priority number one should be getting him out of power ASA fuckin' P to control that bleeding and try to prevent the untold suffering here and abroad that his mere presence in the Oval Office is causing.

Then we can worry about resisting Mr Christian Potatohead and his army of Christofascists and Randian zombies for the next two to four years.
posted by jammer at 6:44 AM on May 17, 2017 [54 favorites]


I was most impressed with Professor Snyder's clapback of Joe Scarborough when Joe was all, "wait wait wait, you're not comparing Trump to Hitler, RIGHT?"

He did a great job of not saying outright "yes" while offering the ways in which 1930's Germany was an awful lot like today's America in a number of ways.
posted by Sophie1 at 6:48 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


welp, here's some weak-ass spin:

Republican congressman James Comer says Trump may have just been joking with Comey; sometimes his jokes look serious when written down.
-- Paul McLeod (buzzfeed news)

funny how this trick works for just about any subtle threat you could concoct.
posted by murphy slaw at 6:51 AM on May 17, 2017 [45 favorites]


Does Comer know that Trump fired Comey?
posted by drezdn at 6:53 AM on May 17, 2017 [19 favorites]


An interesting footnote: Krasner had enormous monetary support from George Soros, though he also has a huge, very local ground game in Philly.

Yeah, I'm seeing numbers indicating that turnout in one West Philly division exceeded 50%, which, just, wow. Overall, I think only 1 in 6 registered Dems voted, which is pathetic, but that's something like 50,000 more votes or 50% more than last time we had a DA race.

(I voted for Khan, too, because I have real doubts that Krasner has the tools to effect the lasting institutional change that the DA's office needs. But hey, at least it wasn't fucking Negrin.)
posted by joyceanmachine at 6:54 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


Trey Gowdy gave a dumbfounding, uncharacteristic and suspicious explanation for turning down the opportunity of a lifetime to be Chief Benghazer at the FBI.

"The country deserves [an @FBI Director] who is devoid of political taint" oh Trey. You're more a taint-based lifeform than you could possibly know.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:54 AM on May 17, 2017 [26 favorites]


Sometimes the word "Congressman" placed before certain people's names looks like a joke when written down.
posted by Rykey at 6:54 AM on May 17, 2017 [20 favorites]


"Everybody please leave the Oval Office, except for the FBI Director. I have a joke I'd like to tell him in private" [obv. fake]
posted by birdheist at 6:54 AM on May 17, 2017 [60 favorites]


And if today plays out like the last week, Trump will tweet "I wasn't joking, I told Comey to stop investigating Flynn, as is my right as president."
posted by drezdn at 6:54 AM on May 17, 2017 [18 favorites]


"I was just joking; I didn't mean it; you know I'd never hurt you" -- the common first excuse of abusive men everywhere.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:55 AM on May 17, 2017 [52 favorites]


A brief and humorous aside: Everyone was in the room where it happened.

Priebus claims…
‘Jared Kushner showed up on my doorstep last night in distress and disarray’
Priebus claims…
‘And he said, “I’ve nowhere else to turn, Steve Bannon is drunk and Sean Spicer’s cray”’
Priebus claims…
‘I approached McMaster and said, “I know you hate this, but could you just go set things straight”

posted by suelac at 6:56 AM on May 17, 2017 [17 favorites]


One thing to keep in mind about a possible Trump impeachment, the dude will litigate it as much as humanly possible.
posted by drezdn at 6:56 AM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]


Eventually Capital Steps is going to do a version of Ben Folds' "Brick" about Trump.
posted by drezdn at 6:57 AM on May 17, 2017


Republican congressman James Comer says Trump may have just been joking with Comey; sometimes his jokes look serious when written down.
-- Paul McLeod (buzzfeed news)

funny how this trick works for just about any subtle threat you could concoct.


Whenever I tell a joke I love to send everyone else out of the room before I do it. Why, I recall when I was under investigation I asked everyone to leave the room and then joked with the agents concerned that I might like them to drop their investigation and, btw, could also fire them.

Good times!
posted by jaduncan at 6:57 AM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]


welp, here's some weak-ass spin:

Republican congressman James Comer says Trump may have just been joking with Comey; sometimes his jokes look serious when written down.
-- Paul McLeod (buzzfeed news)

funny how this trick works for just about any subtle threat you could concoct.


Oh, look - It's the "locker room talk" defense again.
posted by nubs at 6:57 AM on May 17, 2017 [22 favorites]


"I was only joking at the time. I mean, I acted on it, but I had a smile on my face at the time."
posted by drezdn at 6:58 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


One thing to keep in mind about a possible Trump impeachment, the dude will litigate it as much as humanly possible.

Litigate, hell -- he's going to spill every bean he can find or make up as soon as it's obvious that it's going to happen. I'm only about 20 percent scared of a Pence presidency because I figure Trump will fuck him on the way out the door just for spite.
posted by Etrigan at 6:58 AM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]


Trump: I greatly appreciate you informing me, on three separate occasions, allowing me to lull myself into thinking that I am not under investigation while you were actually collecting tons of damning evidence directly from my own mouth the entire time.

FTFY
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:00 AM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]


Litigate, hell -- he's going to spill every bean he can find or make up as soon as it's obvious that it's going to happen.

finally, the truth about Roswell!
posted by entropicamericana at 7:01 AM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]




National Review : Never Ask If It Can Get Worse, Because It Always Can

It's like there's still a foot for him to shoot off, even after taking shots every day since his election.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:02 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Everyone leave the room, except Krebs, Keitel, Jodl, and Comey."
posted by drezdn at 7:02 AM on May 17, 2017 [44 favorites]


Eventually Capital Steps is going to do a version of Ben Folds' "Brick" about Trump

🎵He's a prick and imploding slowly🎵
posted by Barack Spinoza at 7:04 AM on May 17, 2017 [25 favorites]


because I figure Trump will fuck him on the way out the door just for spite.

"Pence totally knew about Flynn beforehand but lied to the American Public anyways."
posted by INFJ at 7:04 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm just not entirely convinced that Pence would not continue merrily along

We can't resist this stuff unless we still have a democracy. Once all the norms are shredded, once protesting is a punishable offense, once reporters who talk to the press are jailed, we have much less power.

That is still a real danger. And no, that danger doesn't disappear entirely if Trump gets removed from office. But that removal all would at least send a strong signal that violation of those norms still has consequences.

We cannot as a nation afford to pretend this situation is normal and continue with business as usual. Removing Trump from office is the ultimate in refusing to normalize him. And it's the right thing to do unless we want this crap to BECOME normal.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:05 AM on May 17, 2017 [33 favorites]


Eventually Capital Steps is going to do a version of Ben Folds' "Brick" about Trump.

I'd rather see The Presidents of the United States of America (oh-so-eponysterically) reunite for a cover of "Lump".

Trump sat alone in the fetid swamp
Trying to decide which minorities to stomp.
Hate welled up during Trump's all-nighters,
Totally enabled the internet's alt-righters

He's Trump, he's Trump, he's Trump,
He's over his head
He's Trump, he's Trump, he's Trump,
His face is red

Trump sold out to be Putin's stooge
Countin' ill-got money like he's Ebenezer Scrooge
Russian asset for master spy
Really, just who is this fucking guy?

He's Trump, he's Trump, he's Trump,
He's over his head
He's Trump, he's Trump, he's Trump,
He's made his bed

Trump swore he was the master of the deal
But couldn't even muster up an ACA repeal

Is this Trump a one-term pissant?
I think so.


Etc.

(Licensing available on request. Call me!)
posted by Mayor West at 7:05 AM on May 17, 2017 [48 favorites]


finally, the truth about Roswell!

Spoiler: It was Obama. Area 51 has his birth certificate from Rykon Prime (aka the Space Muslim Planet).
posted by Behemoth at 7:06 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]




In all fairness, I would send Mike Pence out of the room before telling a joke because a) he's a total fucking humorless buzzkill and b) making him do my bidding would be entertaining in itself.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:07 AM on May 17, 2017 [25 favorites]


gohmert continues his streak of being one of the worst people in congress if not on the entire planet:

Rep. Louie Gohmert: "I'm shocked to see so much concern about things the Obama administration did flagrantly and constantly."
-- Daniel Dale
posted by murphy slaw at 7:08 AM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]


It's like there's still a foot for him to shoot off, even after taking shots every day since his election.

Centipedes have many feet.
posted by EarBucket at 7:08 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


Another point in favor of "impeach now": impeachment proceedings are likely to grind all other legislative action to a near or total halt. That, alone, is a win. Keeping him there to try to further burn down the Republican party gives the swine in congress time to try to cram through what they can before the whole house of cards comes falling down.
posted by jammer at 7:11 AM on May 17, 2017 [35 favorites]


According to news reports, Chelsea Manning has been released, so that's something. I was really worried that the goons in the Trump Administration would find a way to block her release.

In other news, North Carolina Senator Thom Tillis (R) collapsed while running this morning but seems to be ok. I keep expecting everything to be some sort of game-changer. It feels like history is coming at us awfully fast right now.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:12 AM on May 17, 2017 [23 favorites]


Oh my, Paul Ryan is expressing his concern about "people who want to harm the President."
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:12 AM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]


Trump administration was more worried about upsetting Russia than optics after the Comey firing.

Because the Russians are his friends. They gave him boatloads of money when those weaselly New York banks cut him off. He's comfortable with autocratic power and crude bonhomie, and they're not like those snooty disapproving European leaders. Putin is a pal, offering his transcripts? notes? of the meeting which will prove that nothing damaging was said and everyone is just causing a fuss over nothing. Isn't that just like the Democrats. Sad.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 7:13 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]


impeachment proceedings are likely to grind all other legislative action to a near or total halt

posted by jammer


eponysterical
posted by murphy slaw at 7:13 AM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]


Paul Ryan's position this morning is: "I'm sure we're going to want to hear from Mr. Comey...why didn't he take action at the time?" Which, to me, fine, you want to criticize Comey, that's okay. But it seems irrelevant to the actual matter of if Trump committed a crime.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:14 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


> Oh my, Paul Ryan is expressing his concern about "people who want to harm the President."

Your tears, Paul, they sustain me.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:15 AM on May 17, 2017 [16 favorites]


"I'm sure we're going to want to hear from Mr. Comey...why didn't he take action at the time?"

They're just adding this to the weaksauce derailing tactic list right under "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE LEAKERS????"
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:16 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]


Paul Ryan's position this morning is: "I'm sure we're going to want to hear from Mr. Comey...why didn't he take action at the time?"

It's like when they zoomed in on the picture of Biff and saw the almanac in his pocket, only it's GASLIGHT: The Abuser's Manual.
posted by Etrigan at 7:16 AM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]


why didn't he take action at the time?

Is Ryan actually dumb enough to think that the answer to that question goes well for Trump?
posted by diogenes at 7:18 AM on May 17, 2017 [17 favorites]


Good news. Paul Ryan has "full confidence" in Trump. (The Hill's Scott Wong on Twitter)

I want to know how the man sleeps at night.

Also, Don Jr. re-tweeted Geraldo Rivera, who is apparently an expert on obstruction of justice issues.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:19 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


I think the Deep State has finally decided to get rid of Trump. The leaks since Comey's firing have been faster-paced and more targeted, and almost all seem like something from people in intelligence agencies. This isn't a handful of disgruntled staffers anymore, this is a coordinated campaign. It will be interesting to see if it works.
posted by miyabo at 7:20 AM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]


Amash tells reporters that if Comey memo allegations are true, it's grounds for impeachment. Says he trusts Comey more than Trump.

What if the allegations are untrue? Did the reporters ask him if he's otherwise OK with Trump's conduct so far?
posted by sour cream at 7:21 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


Don't make it overly complicated. We fight the fight in front of us until we've won or they have. If we've won (Trump is out of office), we celebrate, rest, recuperate, and then fight the next fight until we've won or they have.

On and on it will go until there are no more fights to fight or no one left to fight.
posted by VTX at 7:21 AM on May 17, 2017 [26 favorites]


Paul Ryan has "full confidence" in Trump.

knowing how the administration uses that phrase, is this the subtlest shade ever?
posted by murphy slaw at 7:21 AM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]


I want to know how the man sleeps at night.

Ryan sleeps soundly and innocently as a little baby bear, because he is a sociopath.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:21 AM on May 17, 2017 [61 favorites]


> Thomas E. Ricks: In 2006 H.R. McMaster was mad at me, as I’m sure he is at the Washington Post now — and why that worries me a lot

Before this gets list to a new thread, I just wanted give a shout-out to Thomas Ricks. He's the author of Fiasco: The American Military Adventure in Iraq, 2003 to 2005, one of the two or three definitive books on the Iraq War. He's a great interview, too.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:21 AM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]


Is Ryan actually dumb enough to think that the answer to that question goes well for Trump?


I suspect not. He probably knows it's thin gruel. I think we're going to be seeing a lot more "Fuck if I know how to get out of this... let's just kick the can down the road a bit more" responses.
posted by jammer at 7:21 AM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]


I want to know how the man sleeps at night.

Presumably on a mattress stuffed with $20 bills that he's saved in taxes by leaving old ladies out in the cold to starve.
posted by Mayor West at 7:24 AM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]


Paul Ryan's position this morning is: "I'm sure we're going to want to hear from Mr. Comey...why didn't he take action at the time?"

I see the best Paul's got is the old right wing rape victim smear.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:26 AM on May 17, 2017 [14 favorites]


Rep. Louie Gohmert: "I'm shocked to see so much concern about things the Obama administration did flagrantly and constantly."

Right, it's just too bad there was nooobody in Congress who would've been willing to seize on "flagrant and constant" obstructions of justice and intelligence compromises when Obama was president.
posted by Rykey at 7:27 AM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]


Thread: an ex-NSC source's take on the Putin transcript offer (storify)

the gist:
He wants to discredit the US even more and make our political system look even more foolish.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:28 AM on May 17, 2017 [14 favorites]


Before this gets list to a new thread, I just wanted give a shout-out to Thomas Ricks. He's the author of Fiasco: The American Military Adventure in Iraq, 2003 to 2005, one of the two or three definitive books on the Iraq War. He's a great interview, too.

Man, I've bought like four books this morning because of this thread. Stop suggesting books, you people.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:28 AM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]


They need us to make them work normally and if we aren't pushing, they will work for whomever is pushing hardest.

It's a minor form of resistance but I just called all my congresscritters' offices to demand investigation and removal. It's obviously a small sample size, but the Republican staff sounded harried, flustered, and exhausted while the Democratic staff sounded calm and in control.

One thing to keep in mind about a possible Trump impeachment, the dude will litigate it as much as humanly possible.

He can try, but there's limited things he can do. He only has involvement if it reaches the Senate and that will be run by Roberts who I doubt will have much tolerance for bullshit. For all of his many flaws, Roberts wants the courts to appear to have some dignity under his guidance. After that, it's done, there's no appeals. Trump's not used to operating in courts where he can't bleed his opponents dry with legal costs or just toss a few hundred thousand at someone to make the problem go away.

My money is still on a hasty resignation before actual impeachment due to some "family health crisis" followed by Pence issuing a blanket pardon "so that our nation can heal" and we can "get back to starving/killing the poor and hating the gays governing."
posted by Candleman at 7:29 AM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]


finally, the truth about Roswell!

Yeah at the meeting where they were weighing how much of what to tell Trump, everyone fell out with that one.

"BWAAHH! Ah! Ehhhhh . . okay seriously though, I guess we have to tell him about the stealth bomber . . ."
posted by petebest at 7:30 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


I want to know how the man sleeps at night.

Paul Ryan doesn't sleep; he just oscillates between keggers and Red Bull.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:31 AM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]


My money is still on a hasty resignation before actual impeachment due to some "family health crisis" followed by Pence issuing a blanket pardon "so that our nation can heal" and we can "get back to starving/killing the poor and hating the gays governing."

There's a few ways Trump could get out and save face, but none of them fit with what we know of Trump's personality.
posted by drezdn at 7:33 AM on May 17, 2017 [12 favorites]


Well, I did not get my birthday wish yesterday of consequences for Trump (though maybe he stubbed his toe or something which I would definitely take), but I'm marking it as the turning point...thus I enter the last year of my thirties with a small flame of hope burning in my heart.
posted by altopower at 7:35 AM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]


Good news. Paul Ryan has "full confidence" in Trump.

Excellent. Wrap yourself in that shit sandwich. The stink is never coming off.
posted by chris24 at 7:36 AM on May 17, 2017 [19 favorites]


Best Case Scenario: Pence promises a full pardon for all Trump associates. Ivanka convinces Trump to resign to protect the brand. Bannon suggests Trump reclaim his honor, start campaigning, and holding big rallies. Republican Party disintegrates.
posted by Glibpaxman at 7:37 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


Trump is about to speak at the Coast Guard graduation ceremony, where the James Bond theme song is currently playing. [real]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:39 AM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]


There's a few ways Trump could get out and save face, but none of them fit with what we know of Trump's personality.

Yeah, based on everything I've seen, it doesn't matter whether they vote to impeach or invoke the 25th Amendment, either way Trump's response is going to be that it's fake, or sabotage, or crooked, and then refuse to leave. The question then becomes how many people (and which ones) still back him.

If he had lost the election, he made it incredibly clear he wouldn't accept the results - why would this be any different?
posted by Mchelly at 7:39 AM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]


Pence issuing a blanket pardon

While this is regrettable yet to be expected, it would not stop Trump from being required to testify about others in the administration, not would it protect him from prosecution of crimes committed before he took office.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:40 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trying to prognosticate right now is completely pointless.
posted by diogenes at 7:40 AM on May 17, 2017 [20 favorites]


>My money is still on a hasty resignation before actual impeachment due to some "family health crisis"

I used to believe this, and still think it's plausible. But.

The way the people "loyal" to him are leaking? If there was a fake illness, he'd be found out.

If people called him out for suddenly bouncing without hard, definitive proof? He'd be called a coward.

Can you imagine Trump staying silent if he was called a coward and a quitter non-stop for a month? Hells no.

There's no way he goes gently into the good night, even if it's a completely viable exit strategy for literally anybody else.
posted by Tevin at 7:41 AM on May 17, 2017


Resignation is just another bankruptcy for the toddler. He knows the drill.
posted by Dashy at 7:42 AM on May 17, 2017 [13 favorites]


Pence promises a full pardon for all Trump associates.

Can't pardon state-level offenses (like state tax evasion, money laundering, violation of state banking/regulatory laws).
posted by melissasaurus at 7:42 AM on May 17, 2017 [14 favorites]


Is there a live stream where I can view whatever the current view of the trainwreck? Where can I get to the up to the minute horror/schadenfreude/fleeting hope/dizzying highs/crushing lows besides the twenty Chrome tabs I currently have open?
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:42 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


Don't do it Terrible Llama. Save your sanity.
posted by INFJ at 7:45 AM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]


3000 comments. Time to roll this over into a new thread?
posted by schmod at 7:49 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]




While this is regrettable yet to be expected, it would not stop Trump from being required to testify about others in the administration, not would it protect him from prosecution of crimes committed before he took office.

Pence could just as easily pardon Trump crimes committed before Trump took office as he could pardon those committed while in office. (Although, as melissasuarus notes, he could only pardon federal crimes, and Trump could still be prosecuted for state crimes.)
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 7:52 AM on May 17, 2017


Trump could still be prosecuted for state crimes

Literally a straight shot to the governor's mansion in any blue state
posted by schadenfrau at 7:54 AM on May 17, 2017 [18 favorites]


Rep. Al Green calls for impeachment.

Now I'm humming "Guilty" and "I Stand Accused."


I'm, I'm so fed up with you
And we all just want the truth.
You're not right, we see
Cause you tell those lies, we can see through
And I want you in a cell, with Pence too

Let me say that since, Snowflake, since you've been 'elected'
Getting you arrested is what I need
Oh let me be the one to subdue you
My balls have never been so blue

Oh baby let's, let's stay in session
Impeachin' you whether
Whether your lies are good or bad, grumpy or mad, oh yeah
posted by leotrotsky at 7:54 AM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]


Ford's pardoning of Nixon was a huge component of his loss to Carter. His approval rating dropped 21 points when he did it. Not saying I want Pence to do it - I want to see Donny frogmarched - but while a pardon may be a literal get of jail free card, it's not a political one.
posted by chris24 at 7:58 AM on May 17, 2017 [13 favorites]


I want to see Donny frogmarched

Pepemarched, please.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:01 AM on May 17, 2017 [26 favorites]


And in other Washington news: Ducks Get Ramps For Easier Access To Capitol Reflecting Pool.

This moment of levity brought to you by ducks.
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:01 AM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]


Does Trump have golfing trips baked into his foreign trip?
posted by drezdn at 8:01 AM on May 17, 2017


Somehow, through all this, I still think Ted Cruz would have been a scarier, more dangerous president in the long run.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:03 AM on May 17, 2017 [27 favorites]


Wow, the thread has looped itself when ducks and golfing come up again.
posted by agregoli at 8:04 AM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]


If you have a Republican representative who hasn't signed on as a co-sponsor to the "Protecting Our Democracy Act" (Justin Amash and Walter Jones are the only R's who have) today would be a great day to call them up and all why they don't think we need an independent investigation into Trump's relationship with Russia. Since we know he tried to shut down the FBI investigation and shared classified info with Russia, don't you think there is an urgent need for an investigation he doesn't control?
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:06 AM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]






Amash tells reporters that if Comey memo allegations are true, it's grounds for impeachment. Says he trusts Comey more than Trump.

As much as I disagree with Amash's politics, he (along with Ben Sasse, Jeff Flake, and a few others) has been consistently correct about this. They're patriotic Americans and the future of the Republican party. Once Trump is out of office, once folks get arrested, I hope that Amash and others can take back the RNC and go on a systematic purge of Trump-defending fascists sympathizers within the party, because those assholes have been so willing to stand up in be counted. Trump support should tar you for life. I hope somebody is planning on primary challenges for all of them.

"Rep. Fuckstick betrayed his country and supported a puppet who sold out our warfighters to a foreign dictator. Stand with loyal American Bob Challenger and say, "Enough Treason!"

Michigan Arab-American community FTW.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:08 AM on May 17, 2017 [24 favorites]


I wanted to try to update this comment with our current knowledge to try to understand things.

Nov 18 -- Trump names Michael Flynn as his national security adviser
Dec 2016 -- Flynn and Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner met with Kislyak at Trump Tower
Jan 24 -- Flynn interviewed by FBI
Jan 25 -- Yates briefed by FBI about interview
Jan 26 -- Yates meets with McGahn
Jan 27 -- Yates meets with McGahn again to discuss his topics of concern
Jan 27 -- Trump has dinner with Comey, tries to get loyalty pledge, inquires about Trump/Russia investigation
Jan 30 -- Yates fired
Feb 10 -- Asked about reports Flynn discussed sanctions with Kislyak, Trump replies, "I don't know about that."
Feb 13 -- Flynn resigns
Feb 14 -- Trump asks Comey to shut down the FBI investigation into Flynn
Mar 20 -- Comey testifies to Congress that the FBI has been investigating possible links between Trump associates and Russian officials since July
Apr 12 -- Trump says "it's not too late" to fire Comey. "But, you know, I have confidence in him. We'll see what happens. You know, it's going to be interesting."
May ? -- NYT claims sometime around here Comey asked for additional resources for Trump/Russia investigation. DoJ denies the story.
May 8 -- Yates testifies to Senate investigators
May 9 -- Trump fires Comey
May 10 -- Trump meets with Kislyak and Lavrov, leaks intel.
May 11 -- Trump says he had been intending to fire Comey for months, would have fired Comey “regardless” of the Justice department advice.
posted by fings at 8:10 AM on May 17, 2017 [75 favorites]


and the future of the Republican party

yes, please let them be the future of the republican party because they support all the worst, least-popular policy proposals of the party and don't prevaricate about it.

if the Freedom Caucus metastasizes into the entire GOP, they'll be a rump party on the national level for decades.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:12 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'll take an honest asshole over a traitor any day of the week.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:14 AM on May 17, 2017 [26 favorites]


One thing to keep in mind about a possible Trump impeachment, the dude will litigate it as much as humanly possible.

Where? The courts have no authority over impeachment. If the House passes articles of impeeachment, and the Senate convicts on them, that's the end of the line. There is no procedure or venue for appeal. Of course Trump can tweet all he wants that his impeachment was illegitimate, but there's no way to fight it other than during the process itself, assuming the House ever does it of course.
posted by thelonius at 8:14 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]


TPM: This Is How Trump’s NatSec Aides Get Him To Pay Attention To His Briefings
Unnamed officials who have briefed the President and others familiar with his learning processes told the publication that Trump still prefers one-page memos and visual aids.

One unnamed source told Reuters that since Trump “keeps reading if he’s mentioned” in briefing materials, officials on the National Security Council have learned to insert the President’s name into “as many paragraphs as we can.”
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:15 AM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]


I'll take an honest asshole over a traitor any day of the week.

oh, absolutely. i'm just saying it's win/win for the left if it happens.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:15 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


REUTERS: LATEST: Russia's Putin says he can give record of Trump and Lavrov conversation to U.S. congress and senate

Cassandra Fairbanks, the Trump-supporting social media "star" employed by Sputnik tweeted
Based Putin is gonna shut down the fake news.
Meanwhile, the other Daddy, the American one, is mad at Jared:
Sources tell us Kushner was a prominent voice advocating Comey's firing & the President's angry that move has created a firestorm @MajorCBS — @NorahODonnell.
Yeah, that's gonna make for an awkward vacation next week.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:17 AM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]


impeeachment

I see what you did there
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 8:17 AM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]


I want to see Donny frogmarched

Pepemarched, please.


Peepeemarched?
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:18 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]


One thing to keep in mind about a possible Trump impeachment, the dude will litigate it as much as humanly possible.

Oh, I hope he does. I hope he denies everything under oath and then points fingers at every one but himself, because responsibility is a word he neither understands or can spell correctly. His team are all duplicitous scum; they'll turn on each other faster than you can say, 'boo.'
posted by leotrotsky at 8:18 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


Yes, but while the Washington Post was breaking some boring story about some dude who got fired from the FBI, the New York times was doing far more important work. They reported that the duck ramps were paid for by City Wildlife, a non-profit, and not government funds. However, it's possible that city employees worked on this project during normal business hours, representing a criminal misuse of taxpayer funded time on such an extravagant and lavish use of a sheet of plywood (possibly more than one) and at least 3 buckets of paint.

It is unknown at this time, if the ducks get splinters or otherwise hurt while using the ramp, as to who would be responsible for paying for their healthcare while they are injured and unable to work, though ducks don't get maternity or paternity leave in DC, and there is some evidence that this family has some young children, so it is likely the family will have to pay for any health care costs relating to pre-existing conditions like "being a duckling" out of pocket.
posted by fragmede at 8:20 AM on May 17, 2017 [18 favorites]




I want to get in on the triumphant SURELY THIS train but ya'll I'm not going to believe anything will change until it actually happens.
posted by emjaybee at 8:22 AM on May 17, 2017 [17 favorites]


Trump is about to speak at the Coast Guard graduation ceremony, where the James Bond theme song is currently playing. [real]
Trump enters stroking a Persian cat.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:22 AM on May 17, 2017 [13 favorites]


That's a pretty great list, Fings. How about May 9th: Director Comey issues grand jury subpoenas into Michael Flynn's Russia links, shortly before being fired. The grand jury subpoenas are big deal if they're what got the President riled up enough to fire the FBI Director.
posted by fragmede at 8:28 AM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]


Yes, but while the Washington Post was breaking some boring story about some dude who got fired from the FBI,

The Times was the one that broke the story about that FBI no-namer. WaPo had Monday's huge Trump scoop, which might as well have been in the time of Charlemagne at this point.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:28 AM on May 17, 2017 [14 favorites]


Oh boy, apparently Stephen Miller is writing the Islam speech, because why not have possibly the most xenophobic racist on your staff write a speech you give to Muslims in Saudi Arabia?

I'm moving the best case scenario to it using the word "Saracen" heavily and the worst case scenario to it literally being a reading of a Chick tract about Islam.
posted by Copronymus at 8:30 AM on May 17, 2017 [56 favorites]


I'm moving the best case scenario to it using the word "Saracen" heavily and the worst case scenario to it literally being a reading of a Chick tract about Islam.

50/50 odds he calls for the recapture of Constantinople.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:35 AM on May 17, 2017 [13 favorites]


WSJ: The Toronto project was billed in 2007 as a joint venture between Mr. Trump and Mr. Shnaider and was projected to cost about 500 million Canadian dollars. Mr. Trump said at the time he would manage the hotel’s operations...the Trump Organization’s general counsel, said the company “was not the owner, developer or seller” of the project. While The Wall Street Journal and others reported in 2011 and 2012 that Mr. Trump had a minor ownership stake in it, Mr. Garten now says Mr. Trump “did not hold” equity and had no involvement

The problem with Trump is that you don't know if he was lying at the being when he said he'd be involved, or lying at the end when he said he was never involved.

(Obviously: Why not both?)
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:36 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]


however this goes down, i hope there is some ninja pr and dialog that catches pence, sessions, tiller, and rosenstein in the blast radius. they need to be clearly poisonous to any gop moc that wants to survive. they were complicit, as handbag designer ivanka *rump would say.
posted by j_curiouser at 8:36 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm moving the best case scenario to it using the word "Saracen" heavily and the worst case scenario to it literally being a reading of a Chick tract about Islam.

50/50 odds he calls for the recapture of Constantinople.


I got a buck that says we hear "Why did Constantinople get the works?"
posted by Etrigan at 8:37 AM on May 17, 2017 [18 favorites]


The duck ramp business is the most ridiculous attempt to turn a cute, inexpensive feelgood project into a scandal since the Socks mail investigation.
posted by jackbishop at 8:37 AM on May 17, 2017 [23 favorites]


The duck ramp business is the most ridiculous attempt to turn a cute, inexpensive feelgood project into a scandal since the Socks mail investigation.

I dunno, don't forget the candy desk.
posted by Melismata at 8:39 AM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]


I got a buck that says we hear "Why did Constantinople get the works?"

Be careful, I hear these guys were trying to ask the same thing.
posted by Behemoth at 8:40 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


Excerpts from the speech.
Hey, I just watched Aladdin again and did you guys know you invented flying carpets? In America we have digital carpets which are something Einstein invented. Einstein was a good Jew. He could have passed as a Christian.
I love Koran. Except for North Koran. They have atomic bombs. Einstein invented those.
I've heard you play football with your feet.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:45 AM on May 17, 2017 [20 favorites]


50/50 odds he calls for the recapture of Constantinople.

Hey that's not fair stealing ideas from other countries' nazi goons.
posted by Dr Dracator at 8:46 AM on May 17, 2017


I hope on his visit with the Saudis, Trump finds a way to repeat his story about inventing the phrase "prime the pump."
posted by AndrewInDC at 8:48 AM on May 17, 2017


Hey that's not fair stealing ideas from other countries' nazi goons.

To be fair, though, it was the Crusaders who first sacked Constantinople in a pretty excellent example of Christian-on-Christian violence.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:49 AM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]


When Republicans suggest that Trump was just joking, I'd like to hear reporters ask them if they know what "kidding on the square" is.
posted by drezdn at 8:53 AM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]


Somehow, through all this, I still think Ted Cruz would have been a scarier, more dangerous president in the long run.

Fully agreed. Trump is narcissism and raging id with little regard for anything else. Cruz couples those with messianic tendencies and far more knowledge of how the sausage is really made.

I believe that Trump's resignation is inevitable and not too far off, though the circumstances may vary. If his actions become so egregious that Repubs in Congress simply can't play ostrich, he will receive enough warning so as to leave before being tossed if for no other reason than GOP spin control.

Barring that, he is a creature of self-gratification. He got the Big Win -- elected President of the US, as he is quite fond of reminding everyone -- but the job itself sucks. He can't control everyone like he thinks The Boss should be able to, he is lampooned constantly, he has a million new worries and decisions to make every day, most of which are about things he doesn't care about. He's rich and 70 years old. This shit is HARD and aggravating. He can leave, screaming on the way out about how Fake News made Presidenting impossible and everyone but him is corrupt, and go back to his old habits and hangouts knowing he's a beloved martyr to 30-40% of the nation... Or he can spend the rest of his natural life putting up with the bullshit in the hardest job he's ever had.

Three guesses which he's going to pick eventually.
posted by delfin at 8:53 AM on May 17, 2017 [16 favorites]


> since the Socks mail investigation.

*sigh*, those were kinder, gentler times, weren't they?

Duck controversy? Instigated by Republican US Representative to North Carolina, Mark Walker.

Socks-mail-gate? Instigated by Republican US Representative to Indiana, Dan Burton.

(See a pattern?) Though in some small way, it's reassuring that some people can still manage normal levels of stupid rather than the level of bat-shit crazy that is (not) our new normal.
posted by fragmede at 8:55 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


“Paul Ryan on the impact of current White House crisis: “I don’t worry about things that are outside of my control.” –@cnn

flames... flames on the side of my face
posted by entropicamericana at 8:56 AM on May 17, 2017 [35 favorites]


“Paul Ryan on the impact of current White House crisis: “I don’t worry about things that are outside of my control.” –@cnn

He literally cannot even imagine a world where he impeaches a Republican president.
posted by Etrigan at 8:58 AM on May 17, 2017 [29 favorites]


Like a maniac shooting
Flaming arrows of death
Is one who deceives their neighbor
And says, “I was only joking!”

Proverbs 26:18-19
posted by J.K. Seazer at 9:00 AM on May 17, 2017 [19 favorites]


You're the ONLY one who has control! WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.
posted by lydhre at 9:00 AM on May 17, 2017 [22 favorites]


Oh boy, apparently Stephen Miller is writing the Islam speech, because why not have possibly the most xenophobic racist on your staff write a speech you give to Muslims in Saudi Arabia?

Yeah, why not, given that the Saudis are even more xenophobic and racist?
I have a feeling that they may get along great. It's not like Trump is going to call them out on human rights.

But I do wonder: Is Melania going to veil up? Or is she just going to stay at the hotel?
posted by sour cream at 9:00 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


Wake Up: Kushner’s a Baddie Too
It’s also this matter of “inexperience” – particularly with people like Jared Kushner. As I said above, no one is that experienced. When you do things to cover up your wrongdoing or crimes, you do it because you are aware of your wrongdoing and crimes and want to evade exposure or punishment. When I saw this report about Kushner this morning even I mocked his reputation as a ‘moderating influence’ on the President. But that doesn’t really cut it. We can’t be certain of the accuracy of this particular report. But assuming it is true and – more importantly – because we have numerous other confirmed reports of similar behavior, we should draw the obvious conclusion: Kushner himself is a bad actor, performing the same abuses of power by proxy.

My only uncertainty is whether Kushner is committing these bad acts to cover up his own wrongdoing along with his father-in-law’s or whether it is only his father-in-law’s. In practice, I suspect that both on the political and business front they are so intertwined as to be indistinguishable. Of course, people are innocent until proven guilty. There is also a huge amount of factual information we don’t have yet. But in any other case, we would interpret these kinds of actions as showing consciousness of guilt and constituting prima facie evidence of bad acts. That should be the default assumption – backed up, let’s not forget by a good deal of factual information as well – in this case too.
Kushner's up to his ass (yanno, that lump about 3' above his head) in all the shady business deals, the Russian Election Affair, and the obstruction justice/abuses of power so apparently prevalent in this White House. Jared Kushner (and Ivanka Trump, for that matter) isn't just "complicit"--he's an active participant.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:00 AM on May 17, 2017 [39 favorites]


“Paul Ryan on the impact of current White House crisis: “I don’t worry about things that are outside of my control.”

It's sure a shame that you aren't the man in charge of the body that can draft articles of impeachment then, isn't it?
posted by jammer at 9:01 AM on May 17, 2017 [21 favorites]


Oh boy, apparently Stephen Miller is writing the Islam speech ...

My favorite part of that piece is "'This has to go well,' one official involved in the planning of the trip said on Tuesday evening. 'There's not a lot of room to fail.'"
posted by octobersurprise at 9:01 AM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]


This really would be a huge story if it wasn't for Trump. But then again: this might not be happening if not for Trump.
There is no way it would have happened had it not been for Trump. Trump has emboldened them to do things that they would never have done in normal political times. I cannot convey how thoroughly that is just not business as usual in protests in D.C. (And I say that as someone who was a regular at protests outside the South African embassy, which is a block away, in the '80s. I have never seen anything like that, and I have done a lot of protesting in D.C. Scuffles between counter-protesters, sure, but not flat-out assault like that.) And a horrifying thing is that Trump's minions are going to take their cues from that behavior, and I think we can expect to see a lot more unilateral violence at what were intended to be peaceful marches.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:01 AM on May 17, 2017 [20 favorites]


Ryan is the shrug emoji in human form.
posted by drezdn at 9:01 AM on May 17, 2017 [21 favorites]


Today, Trump has attained the lowest approval ratings (39.7%) of his presidency thus far.
The previous record of 39.8% on day 74.
posted by lovelyzoo at 9:02 AM on May 17, 2017 [18 favorites]


Small anecdotal evidence of how things are going: I just called both of my Senators this morning to express the need for an independent prosecutor, bipartisan select committee or more... One Senator's D.C. number (for Senator Burr) also sends you to a voicemail box. The other Senator's D.C. number (for Senator Tillis) is always answered by a live person - I've called a few times these past few months, mostly over the AHCA and the Attorney General. However, this morning Senator Tillis' office went to voicemail. Perhaps his entire staff, interns and all, are visiting him in the hospital after he had "heatstroke,"* but I imagine lots of Republican offices have just decided not to answer the phones for awhile.

* - It was excruciatingly difficult not to make a joke about pre-existing conditions, but I took the high road and hoped he would get well soon before proceeding to my concerns.
posted by Slothrop at 9:02 AM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]


Ryan is the shrug emoji in human form.

Just working his traps, bro.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:05 AM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]


> Ryan is the shrug emoji in human form.

Atlas ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ed
posted by tonycpsu at 9:06 AM on May 17, 2017 [97 favorites]


With over 3,000 comments in this thread, I'll put up a new post, if no one else is working on one.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:07 AM on May 17, 2017 [30 favorites]


It seems that Lawrence O'Donnell (who has been extremely vocal attacking Trump nightly for months) will almost definitely be leaving MSNBC (link to his twitter) after not having his contract renewed.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:07 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]


Funny (not "ha-ha funny") how some of these threads take a week to fill up, others take only a few days...
posted by Melismata at 9:08 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


> It seems that Lawrence O'Donnell (who has been extremely vocal attacking Trump nightly for months) will almost definitely be leaving MSNBC (link to his twitter) after not having his contract renewed.

Steve Doocy, call your agent!
posted by tonycpsu at 9:08 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


One Senator's D.C. number (for Senator Burr) also sends you to a voicemail box. The other Senator's D.C. number (for Senator Tillis) is always answered by a live person

When I called them (as well as all the local NC offices) about Bannon a while ago, Tillis's people were a lot more polite than Burr's.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:09 AM on May 17, 2017


emjaybee : I want to get in on the triumphant SURELY THIS train but ya'll I'm not going to believe anything will change until it actually happens.

Is it "Buy on the rumor, sell on the news" or vice versa? This morning we were discussing the pace of the news this week, and we're a little too stunned to remember which one is right.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:09 AM on May 17, 2017



Steve Doocy, call your agent!


Or the brown-haired guy that isn't Steve Doocy.
posted by drezdn at 9:10 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


Re: Turkey, Erdogan's bodyguards committed similar crimes during a 2016 visit with Obama.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:10 AM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]


From way upthread: "Memo" is such a quiet, unassuming word. I'm not sure it's up for this.

How does "smoking gun" grab you?
posted by Gelatin at 9:11 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


From the Coast Guard commencement. Trump actually just said "No politician in the history has been treated worse or more unfairly."

TRUMP CLAIMED OUR LAST PRESIDENT WAS BORN IN KENYA.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:13 AM on May 17, 2017 [102 favorites]


Vox piece on the positive impact of the Philly DA election.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:14 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


shutting him up via some sort of gag order or technology ban
I hope that gag order is actually gagging him with the literal shit of bulls.

I think the Deep State has finally decided to get rid of Trump
There is no unified "Deep State." This is like the myth of the "globalists." The conspiracy is that nearly everyone is inept and looking out for #1 (tax cuts for rich people).

I think we can expect to see a lot more unilateral violence at what were intended to be peaceful marches
Me too. But I've been at all but three of the DC marches since the election (and we've had one nearly every weekend) and I've gotta say based on the sheer numbers involved it feels like if some Richard Spencer-type twits started anything they would promptly be literally torn apart by septuagenarians with hand-knitted pussyhats.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:14 AM on May 17, 2017 [24 favorites]


Also, he promised in his speech to build aircraft carriers ahead of schedule and under budget.

The Coast Guard doesn't use aircraft carriers.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:15 AM on May 17, 2017 [63 favorites]


So 8 minutes into the commencement address it derailed into a full on campaign speech.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 9:17 AM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]


The Coast Guard doesn't use aircraft carriers.


THEY WILL NOW! WITH STEAM CATAPULTS! NONE OF THIS "DIGITAL" B.S.!
posted by drezdn at 9:17 AM on May 17, 2017 [31 favorites]


It seems that Lawrence O'Donnell (who has been extremely vocal attacking Trump nightly for months) will almost definitely be leaving MSNBC (link to his twitter) after not having his contract renewed.

They can see that Trump is about to go to shit, right? Why are they still moving right? Money?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:18 AM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]


Also, he promised in his speech to build aircraft carriers ahead of schedule and under budget.

The Coast Guard doesn't use aircraft carriers.


Doesn't he have an actual speechwriter? I know he totally goes off script most of the time, but don't they even try to tell him what to say to get him in the same ballpark?
posted by Melismata at 9:18 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


So 8 minutes into the commencement address it derailed into a full on campaign speech.

the word "omnishambles" was coined just for times like these
posted by murphy slaw at 9:19 AM on May 17, 2017 [27 favorites]


Doesn't he have an actual speechwriter? I know he totally goes off script most of the time, but don't they even try to tell him what to say to get him in the same ballpark?

Probably would look bad if Jared or Bannon stood right next to him pointing at what he should be reading and whispering in his ear when he gets off track. The man is clearly suffering from diminished faculties. This trip next week is gonna be a disaster.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:21 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


Or he can spend the rest of his natural life putting up with the bullshit in the hardest only job he's ever had.

FTFY.
posted by biogeo at 9:21 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]


"Congratulations Coast Guard cadets, I'd especially like to acknowledge the Metafilter members among you. Remember the type of things the Coast Guard did during World War II? If my huge plans go through, you'll get to do that again. Digital. Trump out. P.S. Want to see my electoral map?"
posted by drezdn at 9:22 AM on May 17, 2017


Maddow and Hayes will be out of MSNBC soon too, they're going full FOX rejects, it's a deliberate strategy.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:25 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm way behind, but: The thing is, I don't really see any way out of this for the Republicans. They can investigate Trump's fitness, find that he has some sort of dementia, and get rid of him, but then they have to admit that they lined up behind a guy who was so cognitively compromised that he couldn't do the job. I'm not sure how they could recover from that. I think their best bet is probably to try to keep him on as a figurehead and have someone else do the actual work of running the country.

Sadly, the current fail parade has been the result of exactly the Republicans trying to do that. It is not working out well for them at all.
posted by Gelatin at 9:26 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]


Upthread, also, people expressed a displeasure for the phrase "run government like a business," which I share. The George W. Bush Administration should have put a stake thru the heart of "sure he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but he'll surround himself with good people" line of nonsense, but Trump will hopefully bury it once and for all. The response to that plausible-sounding but foolish line should be nothing other than "So you admit the candidate is basically incompetent."
posted by Gelatin at 9:28 AM on May 17, 2017 [23 favorites]


From the Coast Guard commencement. Trump actually just said "No politician in the history has been treated worse or more unfairly."

It's no "Don't Cry For Me Argentina."
posted by octobersurprise at 9:29 AM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]


The problem with Trump as figurehead CEO who just rubber-stamps what his underlings do has always been that the presidency has real, enumerated powers which Trump can assert at any time. A back-room "understanding" that Pence, or Bannon, or Ryan, or whoever else is really making the decisions won't matter one iota if Trump decides that he's going to be a big boy and veto a spending bill, withdraw from NATO, fire somebody, or order a bombing run. And because of his temperament/cognitive impairment, no promise not to do those things would survive for long.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:29 AM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]


Maddow and Hayes will be out of MSNBC soon too, they're going full FOX rejects, it's a deliberate strategy.

Haven't the MSNBC execs learnt by now that people don't want Diet Wingnut. The full fat Wingnut is just so much more bilious, more venomous, just more full flavoured and appeals better to the worst parts of our psyche.
posted by Talez at 9:33 AM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]


Matthew Yglesias/Vox: The dam of GOP resistance to Trump oversight is showing some cracks
I, of course, have no idea whether a thorough investigation will reveal some form of “collusion” between the Trump campaign and the Russian government. It does seem very likely that Flynn, at a minimum, broke a bunch of rules regarding monetary payments by foreign governments. And Paul Manafort sure seems to be in hot water regarding money laundering.

But even if all that turns out to have nothing to do with Trump, it seems highly questionable whether he can survive any kind of sustained scrutiny.

He’s not a squeaky clean guy who’s stumbled into scandal on this one Russia thing. He’s a president who has totally unprecedented — and clearly ongoing — financial conflicts of interest that allow parties with interests before the federal government to make cash payments more or less directly to the president of the United States. His daughter and son-in-law have related, but distinct, conflicts of interest. He’s been acting squirrelly for years about his tax returns, and has himself been repeatedly in business with people involved with money laundering and various other aspects of organized crime (Russian mafia, traditional mafia).

Besides which, even at their most scandal-plagued points, Richard Nixon or Bill Clinton could fall back on deep knowledge of American politics and public policy that Trump lacks. By contrast, as Ross Douthat writes, if you “read the things that these people, members of his inner circle, his personally selected appointees, say daily through anonymous quotations to the press,” it’s clear that “they have no respect for him, indeed they seem to palpate with contempt for him, and to regard their mission as equivalent to being stewards for a syphilitic emperor.”
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:34 AM on May 17, 2017 [18 favorites]


"No politician in the history has been treated worse or more unfairly."

Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears...
posted by jaduncan at 9:34 AM on May 17, 2017 [15 favorites]


The intelligence committee has requested that Comey testify in both open and closed sessions, and asked McCabe for Comey's memo.

And an ominous plague is about to descend on the DC area: Cicadas emerge four years earlier than anticipated in D.C. area. They weren't due until 2021, but they're coming early now.
posted by zachlipton at 9:37 AM on May 17, 2017 [74 favorites]


From the CNN article just linked above:
Large blocs of the President's schedule over the past two weeks have been given over to trip preparation, an effort led by his son-in-law Jared Kushner, who has acted as a primary coordinator with foreign governments to plan Trump's schedule abroad.

Kushner has led daily morning meetings to discuss the trip's agenda and objectives, according to a senior administration official speaking on the condition of anonymity. Ordinarily heavily involved in nearly every all West Wing happenings, Kushner has become largely consumed by the foreign trip and not as involved with day-to-day White House matters.
[my bf]

So, he can't be held responsible for advising Trump to fire Comey. Most likely he was just reflecting Trump's desire back at him, per usual. And Kushner thinks this overly-ambitious-bound-to-end-in-disaster trip is going to be a truly presidential shining moment that will slay all his opponents. Popcorn shares are through the roof.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 9:40 AM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]


the president=CEO thing is also repulsively immoral as well as stupid. he's not the country's boss. people who like the idea of a CEO president are people who like the idea of having a boss, like a cosmic spiritual boss. and I also think people love the idea in part because it lets them think of all this, supposing they one day turn against him, as something he's done to us rather than something we did to ourselves.

he's not our boss, we're his hiring committee. and imagine being on a hiring committee where you interviewed everybody, checked all their references, and with eyes open, hired DT as your first choice. and once he started setting the conference rooms on fire, you convened a meeting to make angry phone calls to the runner-up whom you freely chose not to hire. "why didn't you submit a better application packet??" you bellow. "this is all your fault. better work even harder to make us hire you next time there's a vacancy or we'll punish you by letting someone else set us on fire again. that'll teach you. not us, you. definitely you."
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:41 AM on May 17, 2017 [71 favorites]


From the Coast Guard commencement. Trump actually just said "No politician in the history has been treated worse or more unfairly

"Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"
posted by Barack Spinoza at 9:41 AM on May 17, 2017 [16 favorites]


And an ominous plague is about to descend on the DC area: Cicadas emerge four years earlier than anticipated in D.C. area.

Bwaaahhhh hahahahaha. Well, at least SOMEbody's gonna start making noise.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 9:41 AM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]


"No politician in the history has been treated worse or more unfairly."

With some exceptions.
posted by peeedro at 9:41 AM on May 17, 2017 [44 favorites]


And an ominous plague is about to descend on the DC area: Cicadas emerge four years earlier than anticipated in D.C. area. They weren't due until 2021, but they're coming early now.

So we've already got frogs and locusts. Next up fiery hail and darkness?
posted by Glibpaxman at 9:42 AM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]




I've been catching up with the thread on my lunch break. I've seen my own ambivalence about Trump vs Pence echoed above. Like, what if all of this dragged on long enough for the midterms to provide more D representatives to put the brakes on all the horrible stuff that the triumvirate of Pence, Ryan, and McConnell will put through.

Of course, that's putting the cart before the invention of the wheel, as it requires Republican representatives to take moral action and show some backbone instead of furrowing their brow very seriously. So I'm trying to put it out of my mind. It's not even close to time for this SHAME THEORY.
posted by sgranade at 9:44 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


So we've already got frogs and locusts. Next up fiery hail and darkness?

I looked it up and we're getting toward the end. Next is some sort of total eclipse, then it's bye-bye firstborns.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:45 AM on May 17, 2017 [7 favorites]


Cool, when the 2017 writers at last lurch away from this espionage plotline to the tense courtroom drama we all know is coming, we will have the cicadas providing the atmospheric backdrop during the sweltering scenes where the overhead fan revolves slowly and everyone is constantly mopping their faces with handkerchiefs.
posted by supercrayon at 9:46 AM on May 17, 2017 [29 favorites]


I looked it up and we're getting toward the end. Next is some sort of total eclipse, then it's bye-bye firstborns.

Eclipse, you say?
posted by anastasiav at 9:48 AM on May 17, 2017 [29 favorites]


I looked it up and we're getting toward the end. Next is some sort of total eclipse, then it's bye-bye firstborns.

There is a total eclipse predicted for August 21, 2017 in the United States.
posted by Glibpaxman at 9:48 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]


Making up for my plague of cicadas comment with some good news: Chelsea Manning is free and enjoying a slice of pizza.
posted by zachlipton at 9:50 AM on May 17, 2017 [30 favorites]


God Almighty is like, "How many more fuckin signs do you jagoffs need?! Fuck it, prepare the river of blood."
posted by supercrayon at 9:50 AM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]


Only one and a half pepperonis? This country.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:51 AM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]


then it's bye-bye firstborns

I'm counting on sexism with that one

First born daughters inherit the earth

Sounds pretty good
posted by schadenfrau at 9:51 AM on May 17, 2017 [8 favorites]




Sounds pretty good

Sorry, no. Not even in jest.
posted by anastasiav at 9:52 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump has arranged a special signal with his cook. He knows if he only gets one scoop of ice cream that it's time to flee.
posted by drezdn at 9:52 AM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]




Cicadas emerge four years earlier than anticipated in D.C. area
Total derail, but I thought we were on the northern edge of brood VI, which should be appearing now-ish - I question the reportage here.


on preview, maybe not: http://www.cicadamania.com/cicadas/look-listen-for-brood-x-stragglers/
posted by aspersioncast at 9:55 AM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


There is a total eclipse predicted for August 21, 2017 in the United States.

"Two O's in 'moon', two O's in 'Soros' - connect the dots, people!"

/hamburger
posted by CyberSlug Labs at 10:14 AM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]


Someone's been fooling with part of Wikipedia's Mitch McConnell entry today. It currently reads as follows:
Early life and education [edit]

McConnell was born on February 20, 1942, as a turtle, in a puppy mill in Sheffield, Alabama, which is now called the Helen Keller Hospital, and raised as a young turtle in nearby Athens.[9] McConnell is the son of Addison Mitchell McConnell, and his wife, Julia (née Shockley). McConnell is of Box Turtle, Alligator Snapping Turtle, and Galapagos Tortoise descent. As a youth, he overcame polio.[10] His family moved to Georgia when he was eight.[11]

When he was a teenaged mutant ninja turtle, his family arrived in Louisville where he attended duPont Manual High School. He graduated with honors from the University of Louisville with a B.A. in political science in 1964. McConnell was president of the Student Council of the College of Arts and Sciences and a member of the Phi Kappa Tau fraternity. He has maintained strong ties to his alma mater and "remains a rabid fan of its sports teams."[12] Three years later, McConnell graduated from the University of Kentucky College of Law, where he was president of the Student Bar Association.

McConnell enlisted in the U.S. Army Reserve at Louisville, Kentucky during his last year of law school. He received an Honorable Discharge for medical reasons (optic neuritis) after five weeks at Fort Knox.[13][14]
If this gets corrected, check the entry's Revision History.
posted by cenoxo at 10:19 AM on May 17, 2017 [35 favorites]


I came out of the Coast Guard with basically no particular respect or admiration for officers. In four years and change, I spoke with maybe six officers in all, not including dentists or doctors, and one of them was just a lady I met randomly on a plane. Hollywood's fascination with officer ranks has irritated me ever since, because in my experience officers were usually just people who got in the way.

In reading these comments, I have never felt more sympathy and pity for so many officers than I do now. Academy life is demanding. You get a lot out of it (commission, fully-paid college, job right out of graduation, etc), but you give up a lot for it, too.

And this is their graduation ceremony. Those poor bastards.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:34 AM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]


First born daughters inherit the earth

And thus began the reign of Queen Ivanka, First of Her Name.
posted by asteria at 10:35 AM on May 17, 2017


There is a total eclipse predicted for August 21, 2017 in the United States.

"Two O's in 'moon', two O's in 'Soros' - connect the dots, people!"


"M-O-O-N, that spells Soros!"
posted by dhens at 10:58 AM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]


stewards for a syphilitic emperor

That is the most fantastic band name.
posted by glasseyes at 11:00 AM on May 17, 2017 [2 favorites]


stewards for a syphilitic emperor

That is the most fantastic band name.


Sounds more like a stretch goal on a kickstarted board game.
posted by Etrigan at 11:21 AM on May 17, 2017 [11 favorites]


Jon Favreau: Commander-in-Chief whines about his hard life to a class that has volunteered to risk their lives for their country.

He's a pathetic child


(Much as I appreciate & agree with the sentiment, I also agree with the critiques above that likening 45 to a child does more harm than good.)
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:33 AM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]


Children have the potential to grow up.
posted by Artw at 11:38 AM on May 17, 2017 [5 favorites]


The CEO=President thing isn't as cracked as you guys are making it out to be. The CEO is elected by the board of directors and answers to them. The CEO is an employee voted into position by the folks who own the equity in the firm. He then runs the company on behalf of and for the benefit of the owners and with their direction. The big difference is that you can buy yourself more votes and you can even buy enough votes that none of the other votes matter.

Citizenship means you own a share of America's equity. No one gets more than one vote (issues with electoral math aside) and we elect congress as our board of directors as well as the CEO.

There are examples of great CEOs who do the right thing and focus on long-term outcomes and growth. Warren Buffet and Berkshire Hathaway come to mind.

The problem isn't the metaphor, it's that Trump is a shitty CEO as he has proven over and over and over again. He's a conman and they don't make for good president anymore than they do a good CEO.

He's a shitty leader in every context.
posted by VTX at 11:45 AM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]


The thing about new threads is you have to wait for all the drive-bys to unload the links and comments we've been talking about for days. Like seasoning an iron skillet.
posted by petebest at 11:54 AM on May 17, 2017 [9 favorites]


I don't think the CEO model is applicable at all. A CEO is - yes, with supervision by the board - the dictator of the firm. There is no separation of powers.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:24 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]


There are examples of great CEOs who do the right thing and focus on long-term outcomes and growth. Warren Buffet and Berkshire Hathaway come to mind.

Read a bit about Buffet's total crisis vulture moves in the financial crisis before you consider him a 'do the right thing' guy. He is probably a bit better than most of the rest and says the right things publicly but the actions....
posted by srboisvert at 12:47 PM on May 17, 2017 [1 favorite]


The CEO=President thing isn't as cracked as you guys are making it out to be.

That's a reasonable point, but the context here is attached to a lot of ideas. Where the CEO President™ idea has currency, it's generally not connected to careful discussion about what kind of CEO or what kind of business America the Corporation should be run as (and details of who might be an employee, who might be the customer, who might hold equity). It's usually tightly bound with the idea that the private sector is more efficient than the public, that moral merit and economic value are tied together, and naturally, in a meritocracy, someone is a CEO because they deserve to be, not because they're some dirty politician.
posted by wildblueyonder at 12:49 PM on May 17, 2017 [6 favorites]


My issue with the CEO President thing is that people who say it seem to mean that the President should be CEO of the country, not the government.
posted by Etrigan at 12:54 PM on May 17, 2017 [4 favorites]




I am so happy right now about special counsel Former Obama FBI Director being in charge of this investigation!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:20 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]


I think the problem there is that people have forgotten the real relationship between the country and the government. We're not the lucky employees who get to vote for their bosses, board, and CEO. We're the goddamn board of directors voting to hire employees.

A CEO is - yes, with supervision by the board - the dictator of the firm. There is no separation of powers.

This is not how boards function. It's murky because the CEO is often ALSO the chairman of the board and president of the board of directors. But it's commonly the case that proposals must first be approved by the CEO and then also approved by the board of directors.

It's not a great metaphor and it's never going to make sense to run the country that was (because the board are also the customers) but the point is that even if were, Trump is a terrible CEO so this isn't really a good data point regardless. He's not a terrible president because he's trying to run it like a CEO, he's a terrible president because he's just terrible at everything.
posted by VTX at 3:42 PM on May 17, 2017 [3 favorites]


But I can't opt out of being an American in the same way I can boycott a product or service from a company. If elected officials decide, say, to circumscribe my reproductive rights at the federal level I won't necessarily have the resources to nip over to another country and get what I need from a "competitor." And I don't think the kind of balancing of competing and mutually exclusive interests an elected public servant needs to do is comparable to just delivering some kind of return on investment to shareholders or bang for buck to customers. The value government should provide to citizens is not comparable to the value CEOs should provide to shareholders. It's not quantifiable by the same metrics.

Government must protect human dignity and human rights. Sure, there is economic value in, say, providing school lunch or supporting domestic abuse shelters or keeping the air and water clean. The folks helped by such policies may go on to contribute more to the economy and need less public assistance than they might have otherwise under unmitigated adverse conditions, but we should implement them even if it costs us money in the end. For-profit organizations will always engage in exploitative, profit-seeking behavior as it suits their bottom line, which includes how far they think they can push it until a regulatory body intervenes. But I can't endorse the thought that people running the government can and should approach their work with the same ethos as the people on whose profit-seeking behavior they should provide a reasonable check (e.g., preventing another Triangle Shirtwaist or Upper Big Branch). Obviously I want my tax dollars stewarded responsibly as well as humanely, but my experiences with the private sector have done nothing to convince me that someone from there will automatically be better at the job.
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 10:47 PM on May 17, 2017 [10 favorites]


CEO just means King. Who wants a King? kings are shit.
posted by Artw at 5:50 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]


Roger Ailes is dead

I once again feel like a crazy person, but um...
posted by schadenfrau at 5:55 AM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]


But I can't opt out of being an American in the same way I can boycott a product or service from a company.

But that's not what you would do if you're not happy with the company. YOU'RE ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS so if you don't like how the company does business you can change it. Fire the CEO, speak up at board meetings, refuse to approve proposals unless things are changed, etc.


CEO just means King. Who wants a King? kings are shit.

Not only is this wrong but I describe some of the ways that it's wrong two comments above yours. It reads like you're being a troll. The only time it's true is if someone owns more than 50% of the voting shares of the company and that person chooses to appoint themselves as CEO. Even then if you're selling shares publically, shareholders still have some rights and can sue for damages and/or to remove a CEO.
posted by VTX at 7:26 AM on May 18, 2017


Let me be clearer then - Trump and the people who support the "government as business" nonsense don't want Trump to be a CEO, they just want him to be a king.

"CEO" would be bad enough.
posted by Artw at 9:41 AM on May 18, 2017 [4 favorites]


> The personal bodyguards of a visiting foreign leader assaulting protesters in Washington DC, on the same day that leader meets with the President?

Interesting. The same kind of thing, on a larger scale, famously happened when the Shah of Iran visited West Germany in 1967 (German wikipedia).

The Shah's body guards beat up protesters with police looking on or helping, a student protester (Benno Ohnesorg) was killed by a German cop, and the whole thing is widely considered to have contributed to the ensuing radicalization of the left-wing student movement in Germany, and also to the founding of the Red Army Faction, the terrorist group you may know as Baader-Meinhof Group.

So yay, looking forward to the Duterte visit. And whoever else Trump will be honored to show around the White House.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 1:08 PM on May 18, 2017 [1 favorite]


But where are the Berenstein bears?
posted by Yowser at 6:01 PM on May 19, 2017


Baader-Meinhof Group

They are being recognized more and more, I notice.
posted by ckape at 6:25 PM on May 19, 2017 [4 favorites]


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