"Seinfeld" Episodes from the point of view of the girlfriends
June 3, 2017 8:43 AM   Subscribe

“The Library” : Sherry Becker is a self-actualized woman living in the New York City suburbs. One day, out of the blue, an emotionally fifteen but physically thirtysomething man named Jerry, whom she kissed a couple of times in high school, asks her to come into the city for lunch. They reminisce about reading “Tropic of Capricorn,” a book that Sherry still loves and can quote, though she’s now more of an Anaïs Nin person. After Jerry suddenly rushes out of the diner, screaming, Sherry pays both their bills and spends a lovely afternoon at MOMA.

Sort of previously.
posted by chainsofreedom (44 comments total) 18 users marked this as a favorite
 
So no take on The Implant? (That's the one that's real and spectacular.)
posted by fuse theorem at 8:55 AM on June 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


That was surprisingly tepid.
posted by davidmsc at 9:30 AM on June 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


I suppose this is where it's finally okay to admit I didn't like the show? I mean, I must be an odd duck, but having watched maybe six or eight episodes, it just struck me as totally uninteresting. It's such a beloved show, though, I feel I somehow ought to apologize to MeFi for the effrontery of disliking it.

This article neatly, if tepidly, elucidates why: the characters were self-absorbed, neurotic, melodramatic, sociopathic and sexist. I guess that was kinda the whole point of the show's humor. I just never found anything that Jerry and friends did interesting enough to compensate for what terrible people they were.

There were some funny moments, though. Festivus!
posted by darkstar at 9:51 AM on June 3, 2017 [41 favorites]


I also found it a bit tepid to be honest, but I'm sure some smart MeFites can do this article one better.
posted by chainsofreedom at 9:58 AM on June 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


I never liked the show either. I never cared about the characters, and I generally don't like shows if I don't care about the characters, to some degree. It's not they're terrible people - it's that they're terrible in ways I find boring.

So you're not alone. There are plenty of people who didn't like it, for whatever reason, and you're much less likely to call down the hordes by saying you don't like Sienfeld than by saying you don't like Game of Thrones or American Gods or something.

(Shhh, don't say it.)
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:03 AM on June 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


Oh thank god. It seems like everyone around me still references episodes of Seinfeld, so I know a lot of the plots, but...eh. Never got into it.

(Never liked Pulp Fiction, either, so maybe I'm just trying too hard at 90s iconoclasm.)
posted by notsnot at 10:07 AM on June 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


the characters were self-absorbed, neurotic, melodramatic, sociopathic and sexist. I guess that was kinda the whole point of the show's humor.

Exactly, and that's also why it doesn't hold up as well as it might. In the early 90's, a show based on unlikable, nasty characters ("no hugging, no learning") was a real breath of fresh air amid all of the Very Special Episodes teaching life lessons. These days, the Seinfeld model seems to be present in about four out of every five shows you pick at random.
posted by Zonker at 10:10 AM on June 3, 2017 [27 favorites]


Seinfeld is unfunny

So well known it has a TV tropes page.
posted by zabuni at 10:17 AM on June 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


It's interesting because I think that's why the finale fell flat for some fans...they always had this current of selfishness about them, of course, but in so many of the best episodes, it's hard to say they're straight up "terrible." Like the episode where they're lost in the parking garage (excepting Jerry and George's public urination) no one does anything so awful as to be unredeemable. So the finale was a bit disconcerting, because their awfulness always seemed more steeped in their own insecurities and weaknesses rather than actively trying to harm people (especially because there are so many plot lines where they try to help people, usually failing miserably). Either way, I love the show.
posted by girlmightlive at 10:17 AM on June 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


I freakin' LOVE the show (the wife and I are in the middle of our third watch through), and love delving into the minutiae, but yeah, this article doesn't even come close to doing it for me. I'd hand it back, marked in red, with "TRY HARDER" in big letters across the top.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 10:32 AM on June 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


Pretty much all the dating in the show involving the principals was about how terrible they were at relationships.

This piece seems kind of like writing an alternative take on House of Cards from the point of view of Zoe Barnes: "You might have thought Frank Underwood was a nice guy after watching the show, but when we show you our alternative take from Zoe's point of view you'll realize he was actually not that nice."
posted by splitpeasoup at 10:32 AM on June 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


That it was a real breath of fresh air when we moved on from Seinfeld and Friends to shows with curmudgeonly autistic savants should tell you something about how unlikable most network TV is.
posted by srboisvert at 10:40 AM on June 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


I was just telling someone how much of a breath of fresh air it is to watch shows like The Big Bang Theory because at least I don't have to wade through a million homophobic "jokes" or gross trans "jokes" when I'm just trying to watch some mindless comedy. Or the fact that the women characters on TBBT actually do varied and different things with their lives and are therefore slightly less two-dimensional is a nice change from Jerry's flat, "crazy" girlfriends.

This is what we are reduced to. Enjoying minuscule advances in our comedy.
posted by chainsofreedom at 10:45 AM on June 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


When there was nothing better on, Seinfeld was great. I have a lot more of George's (and to a lesser extent, Elaine's) neuroses/rage in me than I would like, personally, so it was hilarious to see someone else do/say the horrible things I thought of doing/saying, but didn't.

There are better things on now, though. And that's also great! But my husband and I will probably be making "Moops" jokes on our deathbeds.

The fact that Jerry and George did not in any way deserve their hot/generally saner girlfriends was the joke, also.

This piece is interesting in that perhaps it reveals how much more we expect of our entertainment these days.
posted by emjaybee at 11:07 AM on June 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


Overexposure to Seinfeld-style nihilism is probably what has made The Leftovers resonate so strongly with a certain cohort. On the spectrum of DGAF to The More You Know, we have finally hit the sweet spot.
posted by grumpybear69 at 12:01 PM on June 3, 2017


This past week I ended up watching all of both seasons of Aziz Ansari's Master of None, and it's interesting to think about the differences between late-20th and early-21st century television through that show and Seinfeld. Whereas both Seinfeld's character on Seinfeld and Ansari's character on Master of None are deeply flawed people who haven't figured out how to be in relationships and who end up accidentally hurting everyone around them, Ansari's character is vastly more interesting/less reprehensible, specifically because he's smart enough to know that he really shouldn't be godawful. Seinfeld, though, treats being awful as a funny little quirk; he doesn't try to get better, but instead dives deeper and deeper into disregard for others. If Seinfeld's character existed in real life he'd be reprehensible — and the real-life Seinfeld isn't that much off from his character. (see, for example, Seinfeld's real-life habit of dating children).

The show was very much of its time. but I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy it at the time. though fwiw there's a ton of early episodes I've never seen — I strongly prefer the late-season shows where they ran out of ideas and started ramping up the surreal elements to compensate. my favorite scene of the entire series is probably the one where George tries to get a Frogger arcade machine across a busy street without unplugging it.

We might not be able to assess the show at all right now; at this horrible historical juncture, the problems with Seinfeld/Seinfeld's disregard for others stand out in sharp relief in a way that they didn't stand out when the show first aired, and won't stand out should we ever defeat neonazism.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:16 PM on June 3, 2017 [13 favorites]


at least I don't have to wade through a million homophobic "jokes" or gross trans "jokes"

Is this...is this sarcastic? Because literally the first episode of BBT has a "guy in a dress" joke (reprised at length in the episode where we see Leonard & Sheldon's first meeting), and half of Raj and Wolowitz's relationship dynamic is driven by the terror of homosexuality.

a nice change from Jerry's flat, "crazy" girlfriends

I've never done a spreadsheet or anything, but most of Jerry's girlfriends are effectively the straight man in the joke. They're mostly not crazy. He is. A fair number of his relationships end with the woman saying, "this is too weird/rude for me, I'm out of here."

Not that I am trying to hold up Seinfeld as a beacon of feminism, but Jerry having too many "crazy" girlfriends really isn't the problem with it.
posted by praemunire at 1:16 PM on June 3, 2017 [26 favorites]


Yeah, wasn't really a Seinfeld fan either. Struck me as the kind of show people could watch and say "Hey, at least I am not like that!"
posted by Samizdata at 1:34 PM on June 3, 2017


There's a layer of Jewish humor and rhythm to the show that has an appeal I can't quantify, but "being annoying while complaining about everything" is something I find relatable and funny, in this context.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:34 PM on June 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


Opposite jinx!
posted by Room 641-A at 1:36 PM on June 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


My husband was addicted to Seinfeld for years (and then reruns) so I know all the characters. However, I hated all of the people on the show; they were people I would never want to spend any time with IRL. So this link resonates way too much.
posted by Peach at 1:44 PM on June 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


I've never done a spreadsheet or anything, but most of Jerry's girlfriends are effectively the straight man in the joke. They're mostly not crazy. He is. A fair number of his relationships end with the woman saying, "this is too weird/rude for me, I'm out of here."

Not that I am trying to hold up Seinfeld as a beacon of feminism, but Jerry having too many "crazy" girlfriends really isn't the problem with it.


Yeah, one of the blatant running jokes is that Jerry (well, really all of them) can't help but ruin every relationship with the great women he somehow dates because he's a neurotic jerk. I don't know how anyone could watch even an episode and miss that.
posted by bongo_x at 2:06 PM on June 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


Has anyone else observed that conservatives in 2017 are suddenly superfans of iconic 1990s comedies? I've got some conservative relatives and libertarian acquaintances who cannot shut up about how much they like (specifically) Seinfeld and The Big Lebowski, even though AFAIK they weren't particularly into either of those things back when they were current/culturally relevant. Given that I'm working off of like three data points, though, I can't tell if it's a trend or just a fluke.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:08 PM on June 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


Please please don't let neocon fascists ruin The Big Lebowski.
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:42 PM on June 3, 2017 [17 favorites]



Has anyone else observed that conservatives in 2017 are suddenly superfans of iconic 1990s comedies? I've got some conservative relatives and libertarian acquaintances who cannot shut up about how much they like (specifically) Seinfeld and The Big Lebowski, even though AFAIK they weren't particularly into either of those things back when they were current/culturally relevant. Given that I'm working off of like three data points, though, I can't tell if it's a trend or just a fluke.


Yes, I noticed this, too. The Big Lebowski quote about that just being, like, your opinion, man sort of sums it up. That line appeals to their epistemic nihilism like the Johnson-choppers appeal to their moral nihilism.

The current iteration of fascism is steeped in some sort of solipsistic pomo soup which is evoked by stuff like Seinfeld, South Park, etc. and which is flavoured by, more or less strongly, fake news, alternative facts, pervasive marketing, celebrity culture, yadda yadda.

There's also some sort of connection to romanticism -- an explicitly reactionary thing -- via hippies, who should incidentally ping your fashdar until they prove otherwise on an individual basis, especially if they're old enough to have actually been at Woodstock. This is a shitty comment but I swear there is a genuine structured rant on this topic trying to shine through, here.
posted by busted_crayons at 2:57 PM on June 3, 2017 [10 favorites]


The fact that Jerry and George did not in any way deserve their hot/generally saner girlfriends was the joke, also.

Yeah, but that's also one of the hackiest, most-repeated jokes in the sitcom universe (has it been officially named Kevin James syndrome yet?) and it's certainly way older than Seinfeld.
posted by Gin and Broadband at 3:23 PM on June 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


I was too much of a kid to really understand the political undercurrents that made the media I liked in the 90s possible/culturally relevant. I definitely think, though, that the weightlessness of dominant discourses during the 1990s made edgelord stuff seem harmless. Sure, the Seinfeld core four are all shitty to each other and everyone else around them, but it didn't matter because (so went dominant discourse) history was over, liberal capitalism had won, and the tech boom was going to keep going endlessly until prosperity was extended to everyone who deserved it. They were dicks, sure, but in what seemed like post-history, we could overlook the political ramifications of personal dickery.

That's why I think I hesitate to dismiss (or really even assess) the show now; once we're in (pick one) [fully automated luxury communism|fascist dystopia without end], we'll be able to look back on Seinfeld and figure out the role it played in the transition from late capitalism to early whatever-comes-next. but as people living in a time when actions are acknowledged to matter, it is very much not something made for the likes of us, and so we can't speak meaningfully about it.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:39 PM on June 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


I suppose this is where it's finally okay to admit I didn't like the show?

I'm not sure I've ever seen a Seinfeld-related discussion that wasn't immediately hijacked by people falling over themselves to proclaim that the show sucks.

It gets old.
posted by Shmuel510 at 4:15 PM on June 3, 2017 [20 favorites]


Don't forget someone has to mention he dated a 17 year old also.
posted by PugAchev at 4:17 PM on June 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


Metafilter: Everything is drama with these people.
posted by Multicellular Exothermic at 4:25 PM on June 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


I loved Seinfeld for the first few seasons and then lost track because I was too busy to watch TV for a few years and then forgot about it. I've tried to rewatch it since then and it's just not funny to me anymore. Not sure what happened but it does nothing for me now.
posted by octothorpe at 4:31 PM on June 3, 2017


does it change anything if the person noting that Seinfeld dated a 17 year old enjoyed Seinfeld when it was on the air?

Jerry Seinfeld was 39 when he dated a 17 year old, a 22 year age gap. He is 63 now. His wife, Jessica Seinfeld, is 45, 18 years younger than Jerry. I mean okay it's definitely bad to shame all intergenerational relationships, but the power dynamics at play with Jerry Seinfeld's very consistent attraction to women 20 years younger than him, when coupled with Seinfeld's overt blindness to power relations / willingness to overlook how they favor him, makes his romantic history super, super sketchy.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:33 PM on June 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


I strongly prefer the late-season shows where they ran out of ideas and started ramping up the surreal elements to compensate.

That had to do with Larry David quitting Seinfeld halfway though the series's run. David's humor tends toward the dark and pessimistic, and with him gone, Jerry's lighter and sillier sensibilities took over the show.
posted by riruro at 4:35 PM on June 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


I suppose this is where it's finally okay to admit I didn't like the show?

I fucking loved the show. I mean, I don't have any desire to watch it again and, in fact, the reruns tend to bore me. But, yes, I was that most '90s of things: a huge Seinfeld fan. (I was also a huge X-Files fan and I dug trip-hop.) Which brings me to my point: a friend of mine who, for reasons, never watched much TV, recently told me that he'd started binge-watching Seinfeld. "Never saw it the first time," he said. "How did you make it through the '90s," I asked.
posted by octobersurprise at 4:49 PM on June 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


> That had to do with Larry David quitting Seinfeld halfway though the series's run. David's humor tends toward the dark and pessimistic, and with him gone, Jerry's lighter and sillier sensibilities took over the show.

you know I never thought of it that way — it feels strange admitting that in a way I like Seinfeld more than Larry David — but you're right. I think maybe Seinfeld was at his best when his work was totally depoliticized/lighthearted/harmless. like, he's got a talent for zany wordplay and silly juxtaposition that sits uncomfortably with his more mean-spirited material. He's a very funny man who should not be left alone in a room with sharp objects or moral dilemmas. It's kind of a pity for him that he got rich and famous. If he weren't in a social position that he could leverage to do things like dating women 20 years younger than him, he'd probably be a pretty decent guy.

(and I'm using the whole dating-a-17-year-old thing here as a synecdoche for a broader pattern of behavior rather than specifically singling out his tendency toward a specific type of intergenerational relationship).
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:49 PM on June 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


Sometimes I like to watch Seinfeld, Friends or Star Trek (TNG) to avoid watching something with any current relevance. They are definitely a different experience now.

I can't remember all the episodes that well so some of the descriptions fell flat because I didn't know what they were referencing. But I still appreciate the dry insults like "Jerry, who’s apparently a professional comedian, even though Vanessa is exactly as funny as he is and also has a law degree and passed the bar."
posted by Emmy Rae at 7:24 PM on June 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


Yeah, but that's also one of the hackiest, most-repeated jokes in the sitcom universe (has it been officially named Kevin James syndrome yet?) and it's certainly way older than Seinfeld.

The girlfriends don't generally actually dump the Kevin James types, though. Jerry's deranged behavior actually drives off the women. A little less horrible.
posted by praemunire at 7:28 PM on June 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


Jerry doesn't have crazy girlfriends, it's Elaine who has crazy boyfriends.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:17 PM on June 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


I loved Seinfeld back in its first run and still enjoy it today. I can't really say that about any other sitcom from the 90s. The linked article was just sort of meh to me. It could have done much better with the premise.
posted by fimbulvetr at 10:46 AM on June 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


It's going to be difficult to top Elaine Benes as the Ur girlfriend anyway.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:30 AM on June 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


"It's kind of a pity for him that he got rich and famous. If he weren't in a social position that he could leverage to do things like dating women 20 years younger than him, he'd probably be a pretty decent guy."

But a good case can be made that money and/or fame brings out your true self, however debatable the notion of a "true self" might be. It's pretty much damning by faint praise to state that what it would take to make him be (or more likely, act like) a decent guy is poverty and obscurity.

The suspicion that there might not be that be much difference between his character and himself, that any hint of self-deprecation was counterfeit at root, was one of the things that kept me from ever warming to the show.
posted by Philofacts at 9:55 PM on June 4, 2017


Jerry Seinfeld was 39 when he dated a 17 year old, a 22 year age gap. He is 63 now. His wife, Jessica Seinfeld, is 45, 18 years younger than Jerry. [...] coupled with Seinfeld's overt blindness to power relations / willingness to overlook how they favor him, makes his romantic history super, super sketchy.

Yes, and he's been married to Jessica -- a successful cookbook author in her own right -- for twenty years. He's no Svengali, come on.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:26 AM on June 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


The show hasn't aged 100% well, no doubt, because so many shows have now tackled the "no lessons, no hugging" credo in funnier and more creative ways. People who haven't watched it and try to get into it in 2017 seem to come out of the experience not-a-fan, which is fair.

But it also makes me a little sad and feels irrationally personal, because it will always to me be an emblem of 90's East Coast Jewish humor, or at least it was in my family. Every Jewish Christmas growing up we'd see a movie and then go out for Chinese with our family friends, a bunch of east coast Jews originating from NY/NJ sitting around a giant table. Quoting Seinfeld was like canon, there just had to be at least five Seinfeld references each dinner sprinkled among gossip and complaining and the goofy debating of unwritten social rules.

So I have warm memories attached to that show that are somehow kind of related to my identity and pride as a Cultural Jew, for reasons that I still haven't fully unpacked or make total sense yet. It's definitely one of the few shows that make both me and my dad laugh. I will always have a soft spot for it.
posted by windbox at 11:02 AM on June 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Everything is drama with these people.

Yes, this hits the nail on the head. I think this is part of why the show's humor has held up as long as it has. Most plot conflicts couldn't be resolved with a google search or a phone call, because the plot conflicts are entirely self-created and often stupid. They are the architects of their own misery, and they thrive on creating more of it.
posted by Cranialtorque at 1:01 PM on June 5, 2017


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