No chickens were involved
June 3, 2017 9:33 PM   Subscribe

What exactly is the story with the traditional Cleveland (and Pittsburgh) dish, city chicken?
posted by Chrysostom (50 comments total) 9 users marked this as a favorite
 
Growing up near Pgh, we had this all the time. It's much harder to find now.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:33 PM on June 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


Fun post. I grew up around New Haven, CT with a huge Polish/Ukrainian population. We didn't have anything like this. I definitely stocked up on halupki and perogies when St. Michael's organized their Easter bake sales though.
posted by Telf at 9:52 PM on June 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


That led me to read up on sunday sauce, coming mostly from the left coast.
posted by Samizdata at 10:25 PM on June 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


Interesting, although I was distracted by "Lemon Ricotta Pancakes Send Jaden Smith Into Fit of Rage".
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:55 PM on June 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


I was pretty sure "city chicken" wasn't going to actually be chicken, but I was relieved to learn that the meat came from domesticated animals.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:08 PM on June 3, 2017 [16 favorites]


Fried and then baked for 60 to 90 minutes? You could pave a city street with that.
posted by hawthorne at 12:04 AM on June 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


I am from Wheeling, WV (about ~1 hour or so from Pittsburgh) and we too had this dish frequently. More oddly, there was a local one off fast Chinese food restaurant inside the mall in St. Clairsville, OH (another 20 minutes further away from Pittsburgh) that had it on the menu. I couldn't tell you what else that place served because city chicken was the only thing I ordered there. Damn it was really good.
posted by mmascolino at 12:27 AM on June 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


We called them mock chicken legs in the family (in WI). Grandma would make them. I forgot all about them, they were so good. (But I won't eat veal these day.)
posted by [insert clever name here] at 12:34 AM on June 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


Salt and Pepper Double Cooked City Chicken - someone, make this a thing!
posted by fallingbadgers at 1:19 AM on June 4, 2017


Downstate IL, 1960s, my mom bought city chicken at the grocery store—4 cubes of pork on a wooden stick. Haven't thought of it in years and don't miss it even a little bit.
posted by she's not there at 2:07 AM on June 4, 2017


I just remembered my Columbus-born mom making this for us when I was a kid. Not often, but damn when she did it was good. Not sure there's anyone better at cooking tender meats with golden brown crusts than her.
posted by buzzkillington at 2:47 AM on June 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


I remember seeing the cubes of pork labeled City Chicken at the Giant Eagle and having no idea what the deal was.
posted by octothorpe at 5:15 AM on June 4, 2017


Is it weird that I thought city chicken would actually be pigeon (or squab, to be accurate)? I mean, they are the quintessential city birds.
posted by Delia at 5:44 AM on June 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


I was pretty sure "city chicken" wasn't going to actually be chicken, but I was relieved to learn that the meat came from domesticated animals.

Make it with long pork, for the true city flavor.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:51 AM on June 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


I grew up in the Cleveland suburbs and moved back here 6 years ago. I have never heard of this until now. Next time I'm at Sokolowski's I'll look for it on the menu (but definitely won't be ordering it). Interesting post.
posted by Kangaroo at 6:47 AM on June 4, 2017


Is it weird that I thought city chicken would actually be pigeon (or squab, to be accurate)? I mean, they are the quintessential city birds.

I expected it to be rat.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:51 AM on June 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


Ah, Depression food. Amazing the kind of impact poverty has had on our dietary choices. Here in Atlantic Canada you knew someone was poor a century ago if they sent their kids to school with lobster, because the rich folks wouldn't touch them.

The article mentioned something called Sunday sauce, so I had to look that up. Sounds like something very common as well, but I've never heard of it.

Then again, I've got donairs, rappie pie, and poutine, so I'm good. Just yesterday I saw a local market offering donair samosas. I don't know what that says about cuisine in the Maritimes, but it sounds good to me.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 7:01 AM on June 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


I grew up near Pittsburgh, went to college in Cleveland, and this is the first I'm hearing about city chicken outside of that South Park episode.

I also hadn't heard of Primanti Bros until about 10 years after I moved away.
posted by dirigibleman at 7:39 AM on June 4, 2017


For a long time, there was just the original Primanti's, though.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:41 AM on June 4, 2017


Still on the menu at Polish Village and Polonia restaurants in Hamtramck, MI!
posted by sluggo at 7:45 AM on June 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


Then again, I've got donairs, rappie pie, and poutine, so I'm good.

So had to google "donair" and ended up in an article that started "To the uninitiated, the donair is intimidating" and then went on to describe basically every proper fast-food döner/shawarma/gyro/kebab/etc ever made. Which makes me wonder who's reading The Globe and Mail? (Or what's wrong with Canada?)

(Yeah, I get the donair sauce is Very Special, but everyone makes their sauce according to local tastes so that concept is not very special, really. Here's a sauce distribution map for Sweden, for example, plotting out the major styles. I'm sure you can find similar maps for other regions.)
posted by effbot at 7:46 AM on June 4, 2017


Is there a difference between Sunday Sauce and Sunday gravy?
posted by TedW at 7:52 AM on June 4, 2017


Just noticed at the end of the article that one of the restaurants that serves this in Pittsburgh is Social which is literally directly under my desk at work. I mean that if you cut a hole around my desk, I'd land in their kitchen. I should pop down and try it next week.
posted by octothorpe at 8:02 AM on June 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


Next time I'm at Sokolowski's I'll look for it on the menu (but definitely won't be ordering it).

Why "definitely not"? Seems like it's an approximation of "breaded pork chops" (which I'm sure has a fancy Italian name used by true foodies), and I see Sokolowski's has things like Salisbury Steak and Scrod Meal on their current lunch menu, so it's not like they have any kind of absolute-truth-in-naming policy, and the entire meny is comfort food anyway :-)
posted by effbot at 8:11 AM on June 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


Got to ask my mother about this (she grew up in western PA, just post-Depression).

I made a roast chicken for dinner a few nights ago with giblet gravy and everything. At $1.09/lb, it's the most economical meat at my local supermarket--cheaper than pork, way cheaper than veal. We got three meals out of it, and I always make homemade stock with the carcass. How times change.
posted by tully_monster at 8:18 AM on June 4, 2017


Growing up in SE Michigan, we used to have city chicken a few times a year. My grandparents may have made it from scratch on occasion, but the local grocery store would have it on special every so often (this was closer to Flint than Hamtramck) and that'd be used as an excuse for them to invite everyone over for dinner.
posted by ghost phoneme at 8:53 AM on June 4, 2017


...went on to describe basically every proper fast-food döner/shawarma/gyro/kebab/etc ever made.

Lumping the (Maritimes) donair in with shawarmas and gyros is like lumping a Reuben with a ham & swiss because they're both sandwiches. Sure, it's technically correct they share many of the same or similar ingredients and preparation, but they're not the same things.

That's not to suggest you can only get a donair in the Maritimes, or that it's somehow better that the other options mentioned, just saying it's a different item. We have shawarma shops and places selling gyros as well as donairs. It's a slightly different beast. What they have in common is their deliciousness.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 9:16 AM on June 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


I wish I'd known about this when I went to Pgh. The Roadfood books mention primanti's, chip chop ham and the Devonshire sandwich but not city chicken.

Maritime Canadians, your provinces are beautiful, but condensed milk does NOT belong in garlic sauce. Zankou chicken's is the ne plus ultra.
posted by brujita at 10:07 AM on June 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


Oh shit ya. Used to eat this out on the rare dinner out, or on sundays when we go to sokolowksis or some other polish place in town, and dad made it all the time too. Trick was to get the butcher at heinens or rini regos to grind the pork and veal together. The gravy is a rich classic pan gravy. Oh my gosh so good. Now i will have to make next weekend for my kids. Circle of life et.
posted by chasles at 10:12 AM on June 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


Worth noting is that the whole "cubes vs grind and shape" argument is akin to all the other "wait people do X thing like Y and i do it like Z" classic cookbook recipes are no help as they seem to be 5050 split. I prefer grind and shape personally.
posted by chasles at 10:14 AM on June 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


Did anyone else hear that entire article in Rick Sebak's voice?
posted by briank at 10:28 AM on June 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


Is there a difference between Sunday Sauce and Sunday gravy?

I'm from Philly, where we call it "gravy". (No "Sunday", because it reheats well and you can have it on other days of the week, although you would definitely make it on Sunday.). I believe that's true in New York and Boston as well. Maybe it's a coast vs. inland thing?

Now I live in Atlanta where gravy is brown. This is how I know I moved to a foreign country.
posted by madcaptenor at 10:32 AM on June 4, 2017


Now I live in Atlanta where gravy is brown. This is how I know I moved to a foreign country.

Your confusion is indeed caused by someone moving to a foreign country, but it was someone who got overwhelmed by all the options when asked about their nice "sugo"; quoting from a dictionary:
  1. (succo) juice
  2. (di carne) gravy
  3. (per pastasciutta) sauce
  4. (figurative, del discorso) essence senza sugo (figurative, persona) insipid, wishy-washy (discorso) pointless, senseless
In English gravy tends to mean gravy.
posted by effbot at 11:34 AM on June 4, 2017


Trick was to get the butcher at heinens or rini regos to grind the pork and veal together.

I have never heard of the grind version! Now I feel like I need to do a side by side comparison to determine the best preparation. And we'll probably need to do repeated trials. Because... science.
posted by ghost phoneme at 12:22 PM on June 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


Family's from western PA and my grandmother made this for me every time I went to go visit her when I was a little kid (this would've been the 80s/early 90s). It's so much better than it sounds. If you do it right, it's incredibly moist on the inside and crispy on the outside and who doesn't like meat on a stick?
posted by StopMakingSense at 12:32 PM on June 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


No need. Grind ftw. Just grind it together squeeze onto skewer and skip the breading. Then fry brown and braise in oven to finish. Make gravy from pan sauce. Oh god. So hungry now.
posted by chasles at 1:32 PM on June 4, 2017


I grew up in a Rochester, NY suburb (Henrietta) and mom brought this home about once a week from Agostinelli's butcher shop. No breading, just lumps of meat on a thick skewer. She just baked them for dinner, usually with mashed potatoes.

This was the same butcher shop that had ground horse meat for a while. It was cheaper than beef, so Mom made some burgers, and my sister flipped when she found out.
posted by Marky at 1:43 PM on June 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


I like do to my Rick Sebak impression to drive my kids bonkers.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:03 PM on June 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


Funny how a different era's mock / replacement food ends up being an expensive food years later. This dish, pouding chomeur, was once a dish like that for many working class French Canadians. I think we had it at least once a week. The amount of maple syrup required for it now makes this a pretty pricey dish (though you certainly can make it without maple syrup using a mock maple syrup of some sort usually out of brown sugar).

Anyone more curious about the whole donair thing might have a listen to this podcast about an European French guy becoming Canadian.
posted by Ashwagandha at 4:33 PM on June 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


I have always been baffled by the term "city chicken." In Ontario (and I think the rest of Canada) you'll hear Ukrainians/Poles call them Patychky/Patyczki, meaning literally "little sticks". Or often, to be even more literal, they're just called "meat on a stick". Never heard "city chicken" till I crossed the border. I usually see them done with either a veal/pork mixture, just pork, or in fact with chicken. Regardless, all delicious. Marinating the meat for a good 12-24 hrs is a critical step, which I did not see mentioned anywhere in the article. I sort of doubt their supposed origin in '30s; I would suspect the recipe is a lot older . Although maybe that's just when it spread outside the Eastern European immigrant communities and was assigned this strange moniker.
posted by Kabanos at 6:21 PM on June 4, 2017


Pouding chomeur has just been added to my list of things to cook in the near future. Sounds like a cold weather dish, but I am willing to be corrected.
posted by TedW at 6:36 PM on June 4, 2017


Sounds like a cold weather dish

We eat it all year round but it was always "cold" weather where I grew up so... yes?
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:13 PM on June 4, 2017


We called them mock chicken legs in the family (in WI). Grandma would make them. I forgot all about them, they were so good. (But I won't eat veal these day.)

Nope, gotta be called city chicken. They were heaven. I've never forgotten about them, and while I don't eat veal, I have a large amount of guilt for still wanting to try city chicken just once more before I die. As an atheist, I don't believe in heaven, but if I'm wrong, there will be a heaven where city chicken is just as tasty, except not made from baby cows.
posted by BlueHorse at 12:47 PM on June 5, 2017


Maybe from baby cows that *want* to be eaten, as in The Restaurant at the End of the Universe?
posted by Chrysostom at 1:26 PM on June 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Sounds like a cold weather dish, but I am willing to be corrected.

It'd be a good cold weather dish, but I have distinct memories of eating fresh sweet corn from down the road with city chicken, so we'd definitely have it during hot weather too.
posted by ghost phoneme at 2:18 PM on June 5, 2017


Growing up in Youngstown Ohia city chicken was a dinner treat. On a similar note, Ohia is the only place I've ever seen chip chopped ham.
posted by batou_ at 5:37 PM on June 5, 2017


Chip chopped ham (aka chipped ham) is common in Pittsburgh, fwiw.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:56 PM on June 5, 2017


We lived about 5000 miles from Grandma and Grandpa's. When my sister and I were little one of the few things we agreed on was that Grandma's city chicken (she hailed from Cincinnati) was going to be the peak of the trip... if she made it.

Sometimes it was summertime and the garden tomatoes and corn would come along with the city chicken; sometimes it was winter and potatoes. I think Grandma never missed a chance to make us city chicken, but she was sly, and often pretended she had forgotten we liked that so much. The suspense she created made for much whispering and hoping.

I have not thought of city chicken for probably twenty years... . Now I shall have to try making it. Thanks.
posted by jet_silver at 9:37 PM on June 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Pittsburgh here. Are we talkin' chip chopped ham in white sauce on mashed potatoes or toast, or is something different?
posted by BlueHorse at 8:37 PM on June 6, 2017


My mom used to tell me about how they would eat city chicken growing up! She grew up in a small town approximately 36 miles from Cleveland.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 12:39 PM on June 7, 2017


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